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Remembering the U.S.S. Liberty
The 50 year cover-up of a mass murder of U.S. servicemen orchestrated by Israel and its friends
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There has been a lot of media coverage mostly written by Israelis or American Jews regarding Israel’s “victory” fifty years ago during the so-called Six Days War directed against its Arab neighbors but I have yet to see an account that mentions the fate of the U.S.S. Liberty. Nevertheless, the Liberty is not forgotten. This Thursday at noon at Arlington National Cemetery there will be a small gathering for the annual coming together with the survivors and friends of the most decorated ship in the history of the U.S. Navy, a victim of a particularly brutal and unprovoked attack by Israel that has been covered up for half a century by the powers that be in Washington. The moving service will include reminiscences by surviving crew members plus the ringing of a ship’s bell for each one of the thirty-four American sailors, Marines and civilians that were killed in the deliberate Israeli air and sea onslaught that sought to sink the intelligence gathering ship and kill all its crew. Present will be a number of veterans like myself and other Americans who are committed to ensuring that the story of the Liberty will not die in hopes that someday the United States government will have the courage to acknowledge what actually happened on that fateful day.

The Liberty survivors who will be present in Arlington on Thursday will be fewer than usual because the crew is having its own 50th anniversary commemoration in Norfolk, Virginia, home of the U.S. Atlantic fleet. In truth the attack on the U.S.S. Liberty by Israeli warplanes and torpedo boats on June 8, 1967, has almost faded from memory, with a younger generation completely unaware that a United States naval vessel was once deliberately targeted and nearly sunk by America’s “greatest friend and ally” Israel. The attack was followed by a cover-up that demonstrated clearly that at least one president of the United States even back nearly fifty years ago valued his relationship with the state of Israel above his loyalty to his own country.

It was in truth the worst attack ever carried out on a U.S. Naval vessel in peace time. In addition to the death toll, 171 more of the crew were wounded in the two-hour assault, which was clearly intended to destroy the intelligence gathering vessel operating in international waters collecting information on the ongoing fighting between Israel and its Arab neighbors. The Israelis, whose planes had their Star of David markings covered up so Egypt could be blamed, attacked the ship repeatedly from the air and with gunboats from the sea. When one Israeli pilot hesitated, refusing to attack what was clearly an American ship, he was instructed to proceed anyway.

The most disgusting part of the tale relates to how U.S. warplanes sent to the Liberty’s aid from an aircraft carrier in the Mediterranean were called back by Defense Secretary Robert McNamara acting under orders from President Lyndon Baines Johnson, who declared that he would rather see the ship go to the bottom of the sea than embarrass his good friend Israel. Ironically, the first ship to reach the Liberty and offer assistance was from the Soviet Union, an offer that was declined.

Johnson reportedly feared Jewish influence over Congress and in the media, which might work together to block his “Great Society” legislative initiatives, not to mention his expected reelection bid in 1968. It was an early manifestation of the power of the Jewish lobby in American politics and foreign relations. One has to hope that both LBJ and McNamara are currently burning in hell.

The incredible courage and determination of the surviving crew was the only thing that kept the Liberty from sinking. The ship’s commanding officer Captain William McGonagle was awarded a Congressional Medal of Honor for his heroic role in keeping the ship afloat, though President Lyndon Baines Johnson broke with tradition and refused to hold the medal ceremony in the White House, also declining to award it personally, delegating that task to the Secretary of the Navy in a closed to the public presentation made at the Washington Navy Yard. The additional medals given to other crew members in the aftermath of the attack made the U.S.S. Liberty the most decorated ship based on a single engagement with hostile forces in the history of the United States Navy.

The cover-up of the attack began immediately. The Liberty crew was sworn to secrecy over the incident, as were the Naval dockyard workers in Malta, and even the men of the U.S.S. Davis, which had assisted the badly damaged Liberty to port were ordered to be silent. A hastily convened and conducted court of inquiry headed by Admiral John McCain acted under orders from Washington to declare the attack a case of mistaken identity. The inquiry’s senior legal counsel Captain Ward Boston, who subsequently declared the attack to be a “deliberate effort to sink an American ship and murder its entire crew,” also described how “President Lyndon Johnson and Secretary of Defense Robert McNamara ordered him to conclude that the attack was a case of ‘mistaken identity’ despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary.” The court’s findings were rewritten and sections relating to Israeli war crimes, to include the machine gunning of life rafts, were excised. Following in his father’s footsteps, Senator John McCain of Arizona has used his position on the Senate Armed Services Committee to effectively block any reconvening of a board of inquiry to reexamine the evidence. Most of the documents relating to the Liberty incident have never been released to the public in spite of the 50 years that have passed since the attack took place.

The faux court of inquiry and the medals awarded in secret were only the first steps in the cover-up, which has persisted to this day, orchestrated by politicians and a media that seem to place Israel’s interests ahead of those of the United States. Liberty survivors have been finding it difficult even to make their case in public. In April 2016 a billboard that read “Help the USS Liberty Survivors – Attacked by Israel” was taken down in New Bedford Massachusetts. The billboard had been placed by the Honor Liberty Vets Organization and, as is normal practice, was paid for through a contractual arrangement that would require the billboard company to post the image for a fixed length of time. It was one of a number of billboards placed in different states. Inevitably, Israel’s well connected friends began to complain. One Jewish businessman threatened to take his business elsewhere, so the advertising company obligingly removed the billboard two weeks early.

After fifty years, the dwindling number of survivors of the Liberty are not looking for punishment or revenge. When asked, they will tell you that they only ask for accountability, that an impartial inquiry into the attack be convened and that the true story of what took place finally be revealed to the public.

That Congress is deaf to the pleas of the Liberty crew should surprise no one as the nation’s legislative body has been for years, as Pat Buchanan once put it, “Israeli occupied territory.” The Lobby’s ability to force Congress and even the presidency to submit to its will has been spelled out in some detail by critics, first by Paul Findley in They Dare to Speak Out, later by John Mearsheimer and Stephen Walt in The Israel Lobby, in Alison Weir’s Against Our Better Judgment, and most recently in Kirk Beattie’s excellent Congress and the Shaping of the Middle East.

Government willingness at all levels to protect Israel even when it is killing Americans is remarkable, but it is symptom of the deep corruption that has generated a tendency to go to bat for Israel reflexively, even when it is damaging to U.S. interests and to the rights that American citizens are supposed to enjoy. I note particularly legislation currently working its way through Congress and numerous statehouses make it illegal for any federal or state funding to go to any entity that supports the Boycott, Divest and Sanction movement, better known as BDS. BDS is a way to put pressure on the Israeli government over its human rights abuses that is both non-violent and potentially effective. Israel’s supporters have labeled BDS as anti-Semitic and have had some success in making any criticism of Israel labeled a “hate crime.”

So the treatment of the U.S.S. Liberty should surprise no one in a country whose governing class has been for decades doing the bidding of the powerful lobby of a tiny client state that has been nothing but trouble and expense for the United States of America. Will it ever end? As the Israel Lobby currently controls the relevant parts of the federal government and much of the media, change is not likely to happen overnight, but there are some positive signs. The BDS movement is growing in spite of the pressure it is experiencing and will not go away. And opinion polls suggest that the American people are finally waking up to realize that they are sick and tired of the entire farce playing out in the Middle East under Israeli direction. Israel, which aggressively spies on us, kills our citizens and takes billions of dollars of our tax money which could be better spent here, is no friend of the United States and never has been. Just ask anyone who served on the U.S.S. Liberty.

 
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  1. Just showing you Yanks who’s boss, that’s all.

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    • Replies: @SolontoCroesus

    Just showing you Yanks who’s boss, that’s all.
     
    Norman Finkelstein, de-mythologizing the 1967 war; in conversation with Phil Weiss and James North
    http://www.unz.com/nfinkelstein/to-live-or-to-perish/

    : My own hypothesis is, this is Israel’s big moment, the climactic of the Jewish people, a collective paroxysm-cum-orgasm. All the armed services want to get a piece of the action. The air force, the army, the navy.

    The navy hadn’t yet seen real combat. As the war was winding down, they were probably anxious to be part of this glorious chapter. To play their part in the Jewish people’s revenge on the goyim.

    Remember, the Israelis don’t just hate Arabs. They’re in an eternal war with all the goyim. All the goyim wanted the Jews dead. Just read Daniel Goldhagen if you have any doubts. The Americans are goyim. They refused entry to Jews fleeing the Holocaust; they didn’t bomb the railway tracks to Auschwitz; they, too, wanted all the Jews dead. Now they’re butting into our war, dispatching a spy ship into our waters, trying to restrain us in our moment of glory. Fuck the Americans! Fuck the goyim! Long live the Jews!

    Besides the Israeli air assault on the USS Liberty, the Israeli navy torpedoed the vessel. It got to share in the mock heroics and avenge the millennial suffering of the Jews. Everyone got their 15 minutes of drawing blood, in memoriam of the Jewish martyrs.
     

    , @Pandos
    We already knew
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  2. phil .why waste your time.the USS liberty was intercepted by soviet forces spying on communications between Russia and Egypt.it was attacked by aircraft piloted by Russian pilots,
    there is no way the USA would directly attack Russian forces in retaliation.it is all about proxy armies doing there bidding.

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    • LOL: Talha
    • Troll: utu, L.K
    • Replies: @Dave Pinsen
    Now that's a new conspiracy theory.

    A few years ago, the Israeli pilot who led the attack on the USS Liberty was interviewed by the Jerusalem post. He said the sailers were lucky he didn't have bombs on board, otherwise he would have sunk it.

    That always seemed an odd aspect of the story to me. If it were a deliberate attack, why leave survivors? Why not sink it? This wasn't the Yamamoto, for heaven's sake. It probably wouldn't have taken more than one direct it from a 2000 pound bomb to sink it.
    , @chris
    What an ass.

    If this is true, why did the Israelis belatedly pay some reparations to the crew? When McNamara ordered a stop to the rescue effort and said he didn't want to shame our ally, was he talking about the Soviet Union? Why, after the fall of the Soviet Union, were the US archives not unsealed in order to exonerate our greatest ally?

    BTW, does anyone else on your ward believe your theory?
    , @Greg Bacon
    Is that what you were taught in your Yeshiva or you just peddling lies and propaganda? Your side has won, Israel is in full control of he USA, but idiotic comments like yours is helpful, for it will help to wake up Americans as to who is really in charge of the USA.
    , @American Shniper
    Can you imagine the atrocities Israel had our service men and women committing against black and brown people let alone our white brothers and sisters if they can force our government to turn it's back on WHITE service MEN, not white women, WHITE service men?

    The men who made this country what it is was murdered by Israeli's with no consequences nor acknowledgement for over 50 years....WOW! And you want to make blacks your enemy?

    , @American Shniper
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rBB6CqCGWh8
    , @jacques sheete
    The troll tried his wacko kunspiracy theery on another comment thread and said it was Russian MIGs. He doesn't know that the attacking jets were Mirages, which Israel had.

    I agree with Mr Bacon and I hope the "cohen" keeps on preaching his mindless nonsense.
  3. @mcohen
    phil .why waste your time.the USS liberty was intercepted by soviet forces spying on communications between Russia and Egypt.it was attacked by aircraft piloted by Russian pilots,
    there is no way the USA would directly attack Russian forces in retaliation.it is all about proxy armies doing there bidding.

    Now that’s a new conspiracy theory.

    A few years ago, the Israeli pilot who led the attack on the USS Liberty was interviewed by the Jerusalem post. He said the sailers were lucky he didn’t have bombs on board, otherwise he would have sunk it.

    That always seemed an odd aspect of the story to me. If it were a deliberate attack, why leave survivors? Why not sink it? This wasn’t the Yamamoto, for heaven’s sake. It probably wouldn’t have taken more than one direct it from a 2000 pound bomb to sink it.

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    • Replies: @mcohen
    there is no shortage of hocus pocus amongst the great powers of the day.british officers sending Australian troops to there death at Gallipoli is another example

    snickity snick
    daisy has a dick
    standing on the corner
    turning a trick

    stand in line take your pick
    pearls for swine
    some are skinny some are thick
    bought by the dime

    what you see you never get
    where fools tread
    a slow horse dead bet
    on a path easily misled

    take out the trash
    gather wood for fire
    burn the lot to ash
    no truth from a liar.
    , @Che Guava
    The ship you are thinking of is the Yamato.

    Yamamoto was the admiral who reluctantly but to the best of his ability led the attack on Pearl Harbour (very effective and brilliant, except for the mysteriously missing carriers) and various other actions until his later assassination by US presidential order.

    A military genius, and he knew what the absence of carriers meant.

    Using torpedo boats is equivalent to such a bomb as your pilot described, but the Liberty did not sink before the situation changed enough to make the Israelis back off.

    Your pilot sounds like a very poisonous person.
    , @JoaoAlfaiate
    From your comment may I conclude that the U-Boats that fired torpedoes at allied vessels during the Battle of the Atlantic did not intend to sink them?
    , @Simon Stells
    I believe the Israelis were called off from the attack before they could finish off the survivors because American aircraft were on the way. If the US hadn't finally sent "help" the butchering of the crew would have been completed and a brutal attack by "Egyptian forces" or whatever would have been the big story.
  4. Here’s the official USS Liberty survivors website, authored by the Navy servicemen that survived the Israeli attack:

    http://www.gtr5.com/

    On June 8, 1967, US Navy intelligence ship USS Liberty was suddenly and brutally attacked on the high seas in international waters by the air and naval forces of Israel. The Israeli forces attacked with full knowledge that this was an American ship and lied about it. Survivors have been forbidden for 40 years to tell their story under oath to the American public. The USS Liberty Memorial web site tells their story and is dedicated to the memory of the 34 brave men who died.

    The Attack

    After surveilling USS Liberty for more than nine hours with almost hourly aircraft overflights and radar tracking, the air and naval forces of Israel attacked our ship in international waters without warning. USS Liberty was identified as a US naval ship by Israeli reconnaissance aircraft nine hours before the attack and continuously tracked by Israeli radar and aircraft thereafter. Sailing in international waters at less than five knots, with no offensive armament, our ship was not a military threat to anyone.

    The Israeli forces attacked without warning and without attempting to contact us. Thirty four Americans were killed in the attack and another 174 were wounded. The ship, a $40-million dollar state-of-the-art signals intelligence platform, was later declared unsalvageable and sold for scrap.

    The Cover Up

    Despite a near-universal consensus that the Israeli attack was made with full knowledge that USS Liberty was a US Navy ship, the Johnson administration began an immediate cover-up of this fact. Though administration officers continued individually to characterize the attack as deliberate, the Johnson administration never sought the prosecution of the guilty parties or otherwise attempted to seek justice for the victims. They concealed and altered evidence in their effort to downplay the attack. Though they never formally accepted the Israeli explanation that it was an accident, they never pressed for a full investigation either. They simply allowed those responsible literally to get away with murder.

    In an ongoing effort to reveal the truth about the attack, the USS Liberty Veterans Association has filed with the Secretary of the Army in the manner prescribed by law a detailed, fully documented Report of War Crimes describing the circumstances of the attack on our ship and evidence that it was a crime under international law. In accordance with international law and treaties, the United States is obligated to investigate the allegations. So far, the United States has declined even to acknowledge that the report has been filed. The full text of the report can be found at http://www.gtr5.com/evidence/warcrimes.pdf

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    • Replies: @Eagle Eye

    In an ongoing effort to reveal the truth about the attack, the USS Liberty Veterans Association has filed with the Secretary of the Army in the manner prescribed by law a detailed, fully documented Report of War Crimes describing the circumstances of the attack on our ship and evidence that it was a crime under international law.
     
    With all due respect to the heroic sailors and civilian staff of the USS Liberty - they were sacrificed by the U.S. military to justify a war against Egypt. LBJ wanted war FOR HIS OWN PURPOSES, but apparently later pulled back. So much for the idea of LBJ being an Israeli puppet.

    Let's look at a timeline:

    October 1956 - March 1957 Great Britain, France and Israel join to retake control of the Suez Canal. Eisenhower administration takes vigorous steps to force all three to retreat from Egypt.

    November 24, 1963 - Former (?) CIA agent Lee Harvey Oswald is murdered in LBJ's home state of Texas. Oswald had earlier served as radio operator keeping in touch with Gary Powers during Powers' overflights of the Soviet Union. Powers himself later confirmed this in a book. Powers later died when his helicopter crashed.

    Two days earlier, JFK had also been murdered in Texas, clearing the way for LBJ to become president.

    August 1964 - LBJ stages the "Gulf of Tonkin" incident to justify all-out U.S. involvement in the Vietnam War.

    June 1967 - LBJ and McNamara are kept informed in real time as the U.S. intelligence vessel USS Liberty is attacked and sunk by a combined air/sea attack. U.S. aircraft are scrambled but are recalled on personal orders from McNamara, almost certainly at LBJ's instructions.

    The U.S. military command was throughout following the USS Liberty incident in real time through radar, radio, visual surveillance and intelligence sources in Israel and Egypt.

    January 1968 - Still not satisfied in his blood lust, LBJ stages yet another incident sacrificing a U.S. intelligence vessel, the USS Pueblo. This time, the aim is to provoke yet another confrontation with North Korea in the middle of the Vietnam war.

    CONCLUSION: Johnson wanted war, the more the better. War presents great opportunities for profiteering, and just as importantly, allows an administration to push through policies that would never be tolerated in peacetime.

    Fellow Democrats Woodrow Wilson (WW I), FDR (WW II) and Harry Truman (Korea) had shown how it's done.

  5. Yes, the Israelis intentionally attacked the USS Liberty. Whose idea was it?

    “That should tell you WE, the USA were expecting an attack and most likely Lyndon Johnson was in on the nefarious plot. So it looks like LBJ told the Israelis go ahead and sink the USS Liberty (miraculously it did not sink) and that will give us a pretext to enter the Six Day War on Israel’s side, launch an invasion of Egypt and depose Nassar who the USA did not like and who was too cozy with the USSR. In other words, LBJ was cooking up a Gulf of Tonkin type incident to justify a criminal Middle East war, based on a US sponsored false flag attack.”

    https://www.amazon.com/Operation-Cyanide-Bombing-Liberty-Nearly/dp/1904132197

    Operation Cyanide: How the Bombing of the USS Liberty Nearly Caused World War Three

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  6. The further I learn about this grotesque, criminal incident the further I strongly suspect two things:
    1. It was a failed false flag; the purpose of which: to incriminate Egypt. The entire plot relied on the total destruction of the Liberty and it’s crew: no ship, no crew, no evidence. (The failed false flag hypothesis at least makes some sense of Israeli motives. Against this view: the Israelis failed, which may be interpreted as evidence that complete destruction was NOT the goal. Also, it might be thought how could the Israelis be SO stupid as to think, given the length of time from observation to concluded attack, that they could “get away with it”? But again, no ship, no crew, no evidence. The rest is denial and bullshit.)
    2. Which leads to the 2nd point ( harder to demonstrate ) that the highest level of the US Admin KNEW about this or “a” pending false flag attack by the Israelis. The speed – confidence – with which Macnamara calls off the jets, the well oiled cover up later, all, at least, suggest US foreknowledge. US complicity would also help explain why the Israelis weren’t that worried about radio traffic ID’ing their fighters.
    On even the bare facts the Liberty incident represented that even 50 years ago, the US government was in (treasonous ) thrall to a foreign power.

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    • Replies: @chris
    Yeah, I think both of your points are closer to the real truth than any theory which has been forwarded.

    The theory that they wanted to kill the Egyptian prisoners fails because all they would have had to do was attack the ship once and apologize; the crew would have been busy with rescue efforts for the rest of the day, and they could have gotten back to doing what they do best in peace.

    No, they staked out their victim all day for very good reasons and they would have also had to be absolutely sure that Johnson would let them get away with it.

    The plan was probably for the US to attack Egypt and keep the Soviets out and for them to secure the greater Israel in one fell swoop, then it all got messed up.

    No worries, it's all happening at a more leisurely pace right now.

    , @Eagle Eye

    On even the bare facts the Liberty incident represented that even 50 years ago, the US government was in (treasonous ) thrall to a foreign power.
     
    With respect, this does not follow at all. The entire world (U.S., UK, France, Israel) treated the Suez Canal as a key geostrategic area. In the 1956/1957 Suez Canal Crisis, the U.S. intervened forcefully against the UK/French/Israeli alliance which had no option but to back down in the face of U.S. opposition.

    The U.S. was and is pursuing its own aims. That these aims are often contrary to the interests of 95% of the U.S. population does not change the fact that the power elite are vigorously furthering their own interests.

    "Cultural Marxists" love to say that "oppressed" groups have no "agency," i.e. shit just happens to them, they are tossed helplessly in a roiling sea of events.

    Is it really a reasonable explanation of observed facts to assume that everything the U.S. does is dictated by a few people in a small, far-away country?

    , @SolontoCroesus

    2. Which leads to the 2nd point ( harder to demonstrate ) that the highest level of the US Admin KNEW about this or “a” pending false flag attack by the Israelis.
     
    Harry McPherson was LBJ's speechwriter.

    He was in Tel Aviv on the day/time the war went hot:

    Jeff Gates knew McPherson and interviewed him for his book, Guilt by Association.

    Here's how Gates describes McPherson's Tel Aviv experience: ( @ 10 min)

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cr56HuPf-9o


    Harry was on his way back from a visit to Viet Nam and wanted to stop in Israel. He asked “the Boss” [LBJ] if that was ok; Johnson said, Fine, just clear it with everyone.

    So he flew into the airport in Tel Aviv and the lights were off. He thought that was curious. He got a call at about 4:00 am from our [the U.S.] ambassador who said, “the war has started.” [McPherson] said, “What do you mean, the war, I just came from the war.” This was the ’67 war.

    The ambassador said, I’m going to pick you up, and they went to meet with Abba Eban, . . ., the Israeli ambassador, and then went to see the head of Israeli intelligence.

    And they said, What is it? Did the Egyptians just come across the border? And the guy changed the subject. They asked again, and the guy changed the subject again.

    About that time they heard these air raid sirens beginning to wail, and they said, Don’t you think we should go into the air raid shelter? And this head of Israeli intelligence looked at his watch and said, That won’t be necessary.

    And these two gentlemen looked at each other — Harry and the ambassador — . . . and they said, Oh my god! This was a put-up job; they had been setting up this attack on Egypt and took out the Egyptian air force — their entire air force — in about an hour and a half. There was no attack on Israel.
     

    So a very close advisor to LBJ was on the scene in Tel Aviv and witnessed first-hand and at the highest level that Israelis were manipulating and manufacturing the crisis.
  7. a victim of a particularly brutal and unprovoked attack by Israel that has been covered up for half a century by the powers that be in Washington.

    The entire 6-day war was a particularly brutal and unprovoked attack by Israel against Egypt and other Arab states. Just as the Israeli government lied about the attack on the Liberty, they lied about being attacked by Egypt. When are the US populatation going to say enough and force the US government to stop supporting this mendacious, duplicious and brutal apartheid artificial Zionist colony in the Middle East?

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    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Today, 6/5 the Senate passed a unanimous resolution to move the US Embassy to Jerusalem immediately. Trunp is still delaying. But for how long?
    , @Z-man
    Not easy when the entire MSM including Fox is controlled by 'them'.
    , @Dave Pinsen
    The war wasn't unprovoked. Egypt blockaded Israeli shipping the month before, mobilized its armed forces, and expelled UN peacekeepers, and otherwise acted as if it were going to launch a war against Israel with its ally Syria (some today say Nasser was just bluffing, but there was no indication of that at the time). Israel couldn't keep its citizen army mobilized indefinitely, as that meant its economy was grinding to a halt, with nearly all of its military-age male workers under arms.

    Israel threw the first punch, but Egypt had taken its jacket off, blocked the door, gotten its boys behind it, and was pointing at Israel and yelling, "We're going to kick your ass".
    , @Eileen Kuch
    You're absolutely correct .. The entire 6-day war was a particularly brutal and unprovoked attack by Israel on Egypt and other Arab states. Just as the Israeli gov't. lied about the attack on the Liberty, they lied about being attacked by Egypt.
    Egypt's leader, Abdel Nasser, amassed his tanks and infantry somewhat close to the border with Israel, but he didn't order them there to attack the Zionist Entity, he wanted to ensure that Egypt wouldn't be attacked. Little did he know, that Israel would do just that.
    The USS Liberty, an Intelligence ship dispatched to the northern Mediterranean to gather information on the conflict and pass it back to Washington, DC. The Liberty remained in International waters the entire time it was situated off the Egyptian coast. However, Israeli boats and aircraft approached the vessel, from which a huge US flag waved in the breeze. Ignoring the flag, the IDF pilots and boaters launched their vicious attacks on the ship, killing 34 sailors and wounding 174. The motive? To drag the US into a war against the Arab states on Israel's side .. However, as we all know now, that attempt failed.
  8. Katyn was in 1940, I suppose.
    Already at Nuremberg the USA and GB knew quite well that it was mass murder perpetrated by Stalin.
    Somewhere in the nineties Putin confirmed this.
    Pearl Harbour still has not been confirmed by the USA as deliberate provocation, Sept 11 fairy tales still are believed, near Amsterdam Airport, Schiphol, a wood has been planted with a tree for each of the MH17 victims.
    The responsibility for MH17 has not been ascertained to this day.
    Yet it seems that Ukraine is to blame, commercial flights were used to shield bombers against BUKs.
    MH370 will never be solved, I expect, yet the suspicion is against the USA, in the plane were two groups of Chinese experts on making planes invisible for radar.
    In Israel is a six million tree wood.
    Myths are very important in politics.
    The relatively few deaths of the Liberty are of no importance, except to the survivors.

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    • Replies: @Agent76
    You must be a book reader and internet researcher. Good post Jilles Dykstra.

    Sep 5, 2016 9/11 Suspects: Rudy Giuliani

    Mayor Giuliani oversaw the illegal destruction of the 9/11 crime scene and is criminally liable for the deaths of hundreds of emergency workers for not passing on prior warnings about the collapses of the Twin Towers. It is no wonder, then, that the Fire Department of New York so passionately detest Giuliani for his actions in disgracing their fallen brothers and covering up the 9/11 crime.

    https://youtu.be/Cl85JSvDmsA

    September 07, 2016 September 11, 2001: The 15th Anniversary of the Crime and Cover-up of the Century “What Really Happened”?

    The arrow points to a “squib” of exploding gas which is commonly seen with controlled demolitions. Some of the “splinters” seen (the only solid objects that did not pulverize into dust) are actually chunks of steel beams that were being exploded upward and laterally. The nicely-sectioned steel beams and girders were soon ordered by New York Mayor Rudy Giuliani to be trucked away and shipped to China – an order that constitutes disturbing a crime scene – which is a federal crime.

    http://www.globalresearch.ca/september-11-2001-the-15th-anniversary-of-the-crime-and-cover-up-of-the-century/5544414
  9. @mcohen
    phil .why waste your time.the USS liberty was intercepted by soviet forces spying on communications between Russia and Egypt.it was attacked by aircraft piloted by Russian pilots,
    there is no way the USA would directly attack Russian forces in retaliation.it is all about proxy armies doing there bidding.

    What an ass.

    If this is true, why did the Israelis belatedly pay some reparations to the crew? When McNamara ordered a stop to the rescue effort and said he didn’t want to shame our ally, was he talking about the Soviet Union? Why, after the fall of the Soviet Union, were the US archives not unsealed in order to exonerate our greatest ally?

    BTW, does anyone else on your ward believe your theory?

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  10. The only thing more depressing than the Liberty attack is the complete lack of shame by the lying, degenerate hasbara crowd.

    You can set your watch to it, so reliable is its frequency. It just never ends, does it?

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    • Replies: @HBM
    One wonders how they might act if they were to achieve their long-term goals and there were no more goyim left to lie to or ones worth exploiting; none remaining to react against and thereby and fuel their behavior. What behaviors would they have left?

    Maybe they'd just switch-off like killer robots who've completed their mission.

  11. Anonymous says:     Show CommentNext New Comment

    Jesus Fucking Christ.

    I get it. It was bad.

    But this Giraldi guy might once in a while also turn his eye to other players in the greater game.

    Like Russia, probably having shot down the Polish Leadership in Smolensk.

    Like the 1999 Apartment Bombings having been a Russian False Flag.

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    • Replies: @Randal

    Jesus Fucking Christ.

    I get it. It was bad.

    But this Giraldi guy might once in a while also turn his eye to other players in the greater game.

     

    Maybe he would do so more often, if the truth were actually allowed to be told about this incident, and if it could be properly recorded and commemorated, with appropriate apologies and accountability for the perpetrators rather than denials.

    Instead it has been suppressed, and those talking about it falsely accused of being anti-Semites and censored. I have witnessed this in action for decades, now.

    Face up properly to the truth, then you can complain about those who continue to "obsess" about the incident.
    , @Bill
    Yeah. Why don't we ever hear any criticism of Russia here in the US? It's odd.
    , @Art

    I get it. It was bad.

    But this Giraldi guy might once in a while also turn his eye to other players in the greater game.

    Like Russia, probably having shot down the Polish Leadership in Smolensk.

    Like the 1999 Apartment Bombings having been a Russian False Flag.
     
    Oh yes – hasbara 101 – when all else fails – point out that in the last ten thousand years of human history, someone else did something worse than the Jew.

    In the evil doings realm - the Jew is always proudly second from the bottom.

    In the idealistic Christian world, second from the top is OK.

    Peace --- Art

    p.s. Of course Anonymous’ comment is implicit admission of guilt.
  12. Not to diminish the lives lost in the Liberty attack, but the same President and administration sacrificed the USS Pueblo six months later. What was that about? Did Johnson have it in for military arm of the intel community?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Pueblo
    Why Pueblo? I had been a sigint ship equipped with brand new life recording technics of the full radio frequency spectrum buildt by Hewlett Packard. It included advanced IT processing equipment with a large magnetic-core storage unit. Hewlett Packard equipped the Pueblo for a field test of its technology for a major Pentagon bid free of charge. The competitor Raytheon organised a false flag to kill the Hewlett Packard bid (likely in cooperation with the US deep state which used the incident to trigger the Xmas bombings on North Vietnam) and subsequently to take over HP after the loss of this huge investment.
  13. Phil,

    You’re missing the big picture here… What about Israel’s “remarkable restraint” we’ve been told so much about?

    http://www.nationalreview.com/article/381726/tragedy-israel-rand-paul

    Read More
  14. I firmly believe that among the elements central to this criminally psychotic operation was the Zionists’ “testing” of America. Success would mean that thenceforth the Zioentity would know that it had the U.S. in its pocket and under its control (control—>domination…) and essentially would have carte blanche to do anything it wanted to further its enterprise. Voila….

    Great commentary by Phil Giraldi! Justice for the fallen and the survivors of the Liberty! Oh — and Justice for Palestine!

    Read More
  15. @Mika-Non
    Just showing you Yanks who's boss, that's all.

    Just showing you Yanks who’s boss, that’s all.

    Norman Finkelstein, de-mythologizing the 1967 war; in conversation with Phil Weiss and James North

    http://www.unz.com/nfinkelstein/to-live-or-to-perish/

    : My own hypothesis is, this is Israel’s big moment, the climactic of the Jewish people, a collective paroxysm-cum-orgasm. All the armed services want to get a piece of the action. The air force, the army, the navy.

    The navy hadn’t yet seen real combat. As the war was winding down, they were probably anxious to be part of this glorious chapter. To play their part in the Jewish people’s revenge on the goyim.

    Remember, the Israelis don’t just hate Arabs. They’re in an eternal war with all the goyim. All the goyim wanted the Jews dead. Just read Daniel Goldhagen if you have any doubts. The Americans are goyim. They refused entry to Jews fleeing the Holocaust; they didn’t bomb the railway tracks to Auschwitz; they, too, wanted all the Jews dead. Now they’re butting into our war, dispatching a spy ship into our waters, trying to restrain us in our moment of glory. Fuck the Americans! Fuck the goyim! Long live the Jews!

    Besides the Israeli air assault on the USS Liberty, the Israeli navy torpedoed the vessel. It got to share in the mock heroics and avenge the millennial suffering of the Jews. Everyone got their 15 minutes of drawing blood, in memoriam of the Jewish martyrs.

    Read More
    • Replies: @geokat62
    You beat me to the punch. I just finished reading the same MW article and was about to post it here. I couldn't believe my eyes as I was reading the transcript of their casual conversation. Needless to say, my jaw dropped when I came to this part of their conversation.

    Let's see how the hasbara tag team try to rationalize this explanation.
  16. After this savage and brutal attack by Israel against an American ship and nothing happened to Israel, they realized that they could now openly attack the USA, while having their MSM blame Muslims, so that Israel could bend and twist our foreign policy to do their bidding.

    Which led straight to the 9/11 False Flag, masterminded by Israel, with help from traitors in the WH, the Pentagon, CIA, FBI and NSA. With generous help from the Lying MSM.

    http://www.911history.de/aaannxyz_ch11_en.html

    America isn’t a free nation, we are living under the boot heel of Israeli tyranny.

    Read More
  17. @mcohen
    phil .why waste your time.the USS liberty was intercepted by soviet forces spying on communications between Russia and Egypt.it was attacked by aircraft piloted by Russian pilots,
    there is no way the USA would directly attack Russian forces in retaliation.it is all about proxy armies doing there bidding.

    Is that what you were taught in your Yeshiva or you just peddling lies and propaganda? Your side has won, Israel is in full control of he USA, but idiotic comments like yours is helpful, for it will help to wake up Americans as to who is really in charge of the USA.

    Read More
  18. Read More
    • Replies: @Che Guava
    Well, you certainly display obsession in gathering that list.
    , @Anon
    I haven't read those links but I am addressing my reply to you because I suggested on an earlier thread that you ought to concede that Israel made a delibrrate attack on the Liberty but I am not 100 per cent convinced that it was an Israeli government decision at the highest level. That is because, for all the enthusiasm shown on UR there is very little reliable evidence about what happened and it occurs to me to try out a few thoughts.

    1. None of the motives suggested are so compelling that it has to be accepted. It follows that all of the suggested motives may be wrong and we therefore have to rely on objective facts and the inability to rule out certain motives;
    2. Some of the theories depend on Liberty being destroyed without evidence left behind or broadcast of how it happened. That's problematic if one concedes how well the IDF's professionals would understand how things go wrong in wars. The problem of credibility grows if you posit that a peripheral action like destroying the Liberty has to be 100 per cent perfect in destroying the ship and killing every las3t crew member before he can communicate with any outsider;
    3. Wouldn't someone say "it's a bit risky boss: some of our pilots are proud of being Yanks as well as Yids and then there are all those with Amrrican friends. Do you think they')l all follow through and then do we trust them never to blab?"
    4. Then there is the simple fact that it would have been easy to sink Liberty on the first sighting with a couple of torpedoes and a couple of heavy bombs (and remember that we aren't supposing that any serious reconnaissance is needed though one can do the never-falsified's trick of imagining that they had to check that jamming was working or....). They didn't so evidently there was some sort of stuff up involved.
    5. Finally, for the moment, there is no reason to believe that seeing the American flag would make the Israelis certain it was a US ship. The number of flights reported early on are consistent with time being taken to clear up uncertainty. What if the really big stuff up qas the failure of communications between the Israeli navy and the UD navy to confirm that it was a US ship? There are enough truly horrifying examples of friendly fire catsstrophes to make that seem plausible who doesn't gape in awe at the competence of military people in action or cerebration.

    Of course the attacks were deliberate on the part of one pr more Israelis. And that is consistent with the later attempts to wrap it all up with a modest compensation payment.

    As for the Johnson Administration and Congress's reluctance to make a big deal of it at the time, several factors have been mentioned which could have made silence to be preferable to full exposure of perhaps the US navy and Israel, especially if it wasn't possible or wasn't prudent to expose the deliberation of high Israeli givernment ministers in planning the attack. I would find it easy to believe that, during the Vietnam War embarrassing the armed forces was regarded as best avoided.

    But yes PG and all. It is surely time to declassify everything.

    , @Mr. Anon
    This site is dedicated to covering things that others - the MSM in particular - do not. So why is it strange for Mr. Giraldi to bring some attention to the Liberty incident, given that it receives little attention elsewhere.

    By the way, why has there never even been a movie made about the U.S.S. Liberty? Movies have been made about other cold-war-era incidents at sea: The U.S.S. Pueblo incident and the defection of Simas Kudirka, for instance. So why has there never even been a made-for-TV movie about the U.S.S. Liberty? Even if it was just a mistake, it was a noteworthy one, was it not?
  19. Anonymous says:     Show CommentNext New Comment
    @JA139

    a victim of a particularly brutal and unprovoked attack by Israel that has been covered up for half a century by the powers that be in Washington.
     
    The entire 6-day war was a particularly brutal and unprovoked attack by Israel against Egypt and other Arab states. Just as the Israeli government lied about the attack on the Liberty, they lied about being attacked by Egypt. When are the US populatation going to say enough and force the US government to stop supporting this mendacious, duplicious and brutal apartheid artificial Zionist colony in the Middle East?

    Today, 6/5 the Senate passed a unanimous resolution to move the US Embassy to Jerusalem immediately. Trunp is still delaying. But for how long?

    Read More
  20. @Dave Pinsen
    Now that's a new conspiracy theory.

    A few years ago, the Israeli pilot who led the attack on the USS Liberty was interviewed by the Jerusalem post. He said the sailers were lucky he didn't have bombs on board, otherwise he would have sunk it.

    That always seemed an odd aspect of the story to me. If it were a deliberate attack, why leave survivors? Why not sink it? This wasn't the Yamamoto, for heaven's sake. It probably wouldn't have taken more than one direct it from a 2000 pound bomb to sink it.

    there is no shortage of hocus pocus amongst the great powers of the day.british officers sending Australian troops to there death at Gallipoli is another example

    snickity snick
    daisy has a dick
    standing on the corner
    turning a trick

    stand in line take your pick
    pearls for swine
    some are skinny some are thick
    bought by the dime

    what you see you never get
    where fools tread
    a slow horse dead bet
    on a path easily misled

    take out the trash
    gather wood for fire
    burn the lot to ash
    no truth from a liar.

    Read More
    • Replies: @dearieme
    "british officers sending Australian troops to there death at Gallipoli is another example"

    Except of course there were more British deaths at Gallipoli than Australian. Indeed, there were more French deaths at Gallipoli than Australian.

    Your whataboutery isn't very good.
  21. @SolontoCroesus

    Just showing you Yanks who’s boss, that’s all.
     
    Norman Finkelstein, de-mythologizing the 1967 war; in conversation with Phil Weiss and James North
    http://www.unz.com/nfinkelstein/to-live-or-to-perish/

    : My own hypothesis is, this is Israel’s big moment, the climactic of the Jewish people, a collective paroxysm-cum-orgasm. All the armed services want to get a piece of the action. The air force, the army, the navy.

    The navy hadn’t yet seen real combat. As the war was winding down, they were probably anxious to be part of this glorious chapter. To play their part in the Jewish people’s revenge on the goyim.

    Remember, the Israelis don’t just hate Arabs. They’re in an eternal war with all the goyim. All the goyim wanted the Jews dead. Just read Daniel Goldhagen if you have any doubts. The Americans are goyim. They refused entry to Jews fleeing the Holocaust; they didn’t bomb the railway tracks to Auschwitz; they, too, wanted all the Jews dead. Now they’re butting into our war, dispatching a spy ship into our waters, trying to restrain us in our moment of glory. Fuck the Americans! Fuck the goyim! Long live the Jews!

    Besides the Israeli air assault on the USS Liberty, the Israeli navy torpedoed the vessel. It got to share in the mock heroics and avenge the millennial suffering of the Jews. Everyone got their 15 minutes of drawing blood, in memoriam of the Jewish martyrs.
     

    You beat me to the punch. I just finished reading the same MW article and was about to post it here. I couldn’t believe my eyes as I was reading the transcript of their casual conversation. Needless to say, my jaw dropped when I came to this part of their conversation.

    Let’s see how the hasbara tag team try to rationalize this explanation.

    Read More
    • Replies: @mcohen
    geokat
    should know that normal finkelstein has been a mossad operative for some time.a branch similar to 8100.you been had my cad.
    your hatred of Israel has blinded you to the fact that it was american military hardware that won the day.the 6 day war victory was just a spinoff.in a competing arms race against the soviets american military hardware proved superior.the Israeli s paid the price in blood for this marketing campaign. the rewards were more land.
    you and your fellow fake Palestinian supporters should suck it up the back passage and trump(et) it out your ears for that daily mind cleansing ritual
    , @anon
    What percentage of your average day do you spend obsessing over jews ?
    What does your family think about your obsession ? Answer honestly please.
  22. Once again, Mr. Giraldi demonstrates his profound patriotism, and his stunning courage to speak the truth.

    Read More
  23. LBJ’s links to Israel were very deep and begin much earlier. That connection also explains how he became President.

    http://5tjt.com/our-first-jewish-president-lyndon-johnson-an-update/

    Interestingly Devin Nunes is tied in with the USS Liberty.

    In the award ceremony at the Visalia (California) office of Rep. Devin Nunes, the Republican congressman pinned the Silver Star next to the Purple Heart that Halbardier found in his home mailbox three years ago. Nunes said, “The government has kept this quiet I think for too long, and I felt as my constituent he [Halbardier] needed to get recognized for the services he made to his country.”

    https://consortiumnews.com/2014/08/17/a-uss-libertys-heros-passing/

    Read More
  24. Someone sure has a bug-up-their-butt about this. “War” is always a mess. Deal with it…we used to throw VC out the huey doors till the last one gave up what we wanted to hear. Now we buy our shirts and shoes from there. The time spent re-living the “Liberty” is time you will “never get back”.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Z-man
    No, the Liberty affair is one of the few 'unadulterated' examples that clearly shows that the Zionists are not our friends! So it must be kept 'alive'!
    , @Jus' Sayin'...
    Hasbara. They must be paying by the post instead of the word to get the USS Liberty scandal once again out of the public eye.
    , @Rurik

    Deal with it
     
    yea, OK

    as you say "War" is always a mess

    https://furtherglory.files.wordpress.com/2015/09/majdanek-ovens.jpg

    deal with it and stop your crybaby whining already
    , @Bill Jones
    " Deal with it" : LBJ should have dealt with it.

    He should have glassed the shitty little country and the world would be a saner safer more prosperous place today.
  25. @Dave Pinsen
    Now that's a new conspiracy theory.

    A few years ago, the Israeli pilot who led the attack on the USS Liberty was interviewed by the Jerusalem post. He said the sailers were lucky he didn't have bombs on board, otherwise he would have sunk it.

    That always seemed an odd aspect of the story to me. If it were a deliberate attack, why leave survivors? Why not sink it? This wasn't the Yamamoto, for heaven's sake. It probably wouldn't have taken more than one direct it from a 2000 pound bomb to sink it.

    The ship you are thinking of is the Yamato.

    Yamamoto was the admiral who reluctantly but to the best of his ability led the attack on Pearl Harbour (very effective and brilliant, except for the mysteriously missing carriers) and various other actions until his later assassination by US presidential order.

    A military genius, and he knew what the absence of carriers meant.

    Using torpedo boats is equivalent to such a bomb as your pilot described, but the Liberty did not sink before the situation changed enough to make the Israelis back off.

    Your pilot sounds like a very poisonous person.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Thirdeye
    Not that effective or brilliant. The fixation on battleship row was sophomoric. According to Admiral Nimitz, taking out the shore support facilities would have had a much greater impact on the US ability to wage war in the Pacific, forcing the US fleet to base its operations out of San Diego. That would have made it virtually impossible to project US power into the western Pacific during the crucial time in which the battles of the Coral Sea, Midway, and Guadalcanal took place.
    The Japanese also had an unrealized opportunity to seize Oahu because the land forces defending it were weak. As it was, most of the damaged ships were salvaged after sitting in the mud and they were facing obsolescence as first line assets with the battleship and carrier building program then underway.
  26. @mcohen
    there is no shortage of hocus pocus amongst the great powers of the day.british officers sending Australian troops to there death at Gallipoli is another example

    snickity snick
    daisy has a dick
    standing on the corner
    turning a trick

    stand in line take your pick
    pearls for swine
    some are skinny some are thick
    bought by the dime

    what you see you never get
    where fools tread
    a slow horse dead bet
    on a path easily misled

    take out the trash
    gather wood for fire
    burn the lot to ash
    no truth from a liar.

    “british officers sending Australian troops to there death at Gallipoli is another example”

    Except of course there were more British deaths at Gallipoli than Australian. Indeed, there were more French deaths at Gallipoli than Australian.

    Your whataboutery isn’t very good.

    Read More
  27. @Lot
    Kind of obsessed, huh?


    http://www.unz.com/pgiraldi/the-uss-liberty-must-not-be-forgotten/
    http://www.unz.com/pgiraldi/the-uss-libertys-final-chapter/
    http://www.unz.com/pgiraldi/remembering-the-u-s-s-liberty/
    http://www.unz.com/pgiraldi/remembering-the-u-s-s-liberty-2/
    http://www.unz.com/pgiraldi/israels-friends-against-the-first-amendment/
    http://www.unz.com/pgiraldi/why-i-still-dislike-israel/
    http://www.unz.com/pgiraldi/mossad-in-america/


    For more Unz.com coverage:

    http://www.unz.com/article/infamy-at-sea/
    http://www.unz.com/proberts/israels-slaughter-of-us-sailors/
    http://www.unz.com/proberts/the-israeli-attack-on-the-uss-liberty/
    http://www.unz.com/proberts/surviving-sailors-break-their-silence-40-years-after-israeli-attack-on-us-navy-ship/
    http://www.unz.com/proberts/lest-we-forget-the-uss-liberty/
    http://www.unz.com/proberts/no-american-president-can-stand-up-to-israel/
    http://www.unz.com/proberts/the-israel-lobby-eliminates-another-critic/
    http://www.unz.com/article/american-legion-honchos-betray-liberty-veterans/
    http://www.unz.com/article/leaving-the-crew-of-the-uss-liberty-behind/
    http://www.unz.com/article/sf-imc-interview-jeffrey-blankfort-jewish-american-anti-zionist-journalist/
    http://www.unz.com/jpetras/the-major-jewish-american-organizations-defend-israels-humiliation-of-america/

    Well, you certainly display obsession in gathering that list.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Lot
    Unz.com has a great search feature. Took about 90 seconds.
  28. Anon says:     Show CommentNext New Comment
    @Lot
    Kind of obsessed, huh?


    http://www.unz.com/pgiraldi/the-uss-liberty-must-not-be-forgotten/
    http://www.unz.com/pgiraldi/the-uss-libertys-final-chapter/
    http://www.unz.com/pgiraldi/remembering-the-u-s-s-liberty/
    http://www.unz.com/pgiraldi/remembering-the-u-s-s-liberty-2/
    http://www.unz.com/pgiraldi/israels-friends-against-the-first-amendment/
    http://www.unz.com/pgiraldi/why-i-still-dislike-israel/
    http://www.unz.com/pgiraldi/mossad-in-america/


    For more Unz.com coverage:

    http://www.unz.com/article/infamy-at-sea/
    http://www.unz.com/proberts/israels-slaughter-of-us-sailors/
    http://www.unz.com/proberts/the-israeli-attack-on-the-uss-liberty/
    http://www.unz.com/proberts/surviving-sailors-break-their-silence-40-years-after-israeli-attack-on-us-navy-ship/
    http://www.unz.com/proberts/lest-we-forget-the-uss-liberty/
    http://www.unz.com/proberts/no-american-president-can-stand-up-to-israel/
    http://www.unz.com/proberts/the-israel-lobby-eliminates-another-critic/
    http://www.unz.com/article/american-legion-honchos-betray-liberty-veterans/
    http://www.unz.com/article/leaving-the-crew-of-the-uss-liberty-behind/
    http://www.unz.com/article/sf-imc-interview-jeffrey-blankfort-jewish-american-anti-zionist-journalist/
    http://www.unz.com/jpetras/the-major-jewish-american-organizations-defend-israels-humiliation-of-america/

    I haven’t read those links but I am addressing my reply to you because I suggested on an earlier thread that you ought to concede that Israel made a delibrrate attack on the Liberty but I am not 100 per cent convinced that it was an Israeli government decision at the highest level. That is because, for all the enthusiasm shown on UR there is very little reliable evidence about what happened and it occurs to me to try out a few thoughts.

    1. None of the motives suggested are so compelling that it has to be accepted. It follows that all of the suggested motives may be wrong and we therefore have to rely on objective facts and the inability to rule out certain motives;
    2. Some of the theories depend on Liberty being destroyed without evidence left behind or broadcast of how it happened. That’s problematic if one concedes how well the IDF’s professionals would understand how things go wrong in wars. The problem of credibility grows if you posit that a peripheral action like destroying the Liberty has to be 100 per cent perfect in destroying the ship and killing every las3t crew member before he can communicate with any outsider;
    3. Wouldn’t someone say “it’s a bit risky boss: some of our pilots are proud of being Yanks as well as Yids and then there are all those with Amrrican friends. Do you think they’)l all follow through and then do we trust them never to blab?”
    4. Then there is the simple fact that it would have been easy to sink Liberty on the first sighting with a couple of torpedoes and a couple of heavy bombs (and remember that we aren’t supposing that any serious reconnaissance is needed though one can do the never-falsified’s trick of imagining that they had to check that jamming was working or….). They didn’t so evidently there was some sort of stuff up involved.
    5. Finally, for the moment, there is no reason to believe that seeing the American flag would make the Israelis certain it was a US ship. The number of flights reported early on are consistent with time being taken to clear up uncertainty. What if the really big stuff up qas the failure of communications between the Israeli navy and the UD navy to confirm that it was a US ship? There are enough truly horrifying examples of friendly fire catsstrophes to make that seem plausible who doesn’t gape in awe at the competence of military people in action or cerebration.

    Of course the attacks were deliberate on the part of one pr more Israelis. And that is consistent with the later attempts to wrap it all up with a modest compensation payment.

    As for the Johnson Administration and Congress’s reluctance to make a big deal of it at the time, several factors have been mentioned which could have made silence to be preferable to full exposure of perhaps the US navy and Israel, especially if it wasn’t possible or wasn’t prudent to expose the deliberation of high Israeli givernment ministers in planning the attack. I would find it easy to believe that, during the Vietnam War embarrassing the armed forces was regarded as best avoided.

    But yes PG and all. It is surely time to declassify everything.

    Read More
    • Replies: @American Shniper
    Think about it. Who had anything to gain with the USS Liberty attack?


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rBB6CqCGWh8
    , @Lot
    The whole "false flag" thing should be obviously wrong to you all. There is no way Israel ever could have framed Egypt for an attack on a US ship because, like Israel, like every other country then and now, nobody has any incentive to deliberately attack a US ship. Moreover, by the time of the attack, Israel had already won the war, and the USA was already quietly supporting Israel.

    And as Dave Pinsen pointed out, if Israel had intended to sink the Liberty, it would have done so quite easily.
  29. @geokat62
    You beat me to the punch. I just finished reading the same MW article and was about to post it here. I couldn't believe my eyes as I was reading the transcript of their casual conversation. Needless to say, my jaw dropped when I came to this part of their conversation.

    Let's see how the hasbara tag team try to rationalize this explanation.

    geokat
    should know that normal finkelstein has been a mossad operative for some time.a branch similar to 8100.you been had my cad.
    your hatred of Israel has blinded you to the fact that it was american military hardware that won the day.the 6 day war victory was just a spinoff.in a competing arms race against the soviets american military hardware proved superior.the Israeli s paid the price in blood for this marketing campaign. the rewards were more land.
    you and your fellow fake Palestinian supporters should suck it up the back passage and trump(et) it out your ears for that daily mind cleansing ritual

    Read More
    • Replies: @Jon Halpenny
    As far as I know, the Israelis used mostly French equipment in the 1967 war.

    They also had British centurion tanks.
    , @geokat62

    .... normal finkelstein has been a mossad operative for some time.
     
    Here is our Mossad agent doing some more under cover work:

    https://youtu.be/Pjq5YC5JzEw
  30. A small detail in the USS Liberty tragedy. The ship was solid. If I am not mistaken the entire production run were called victory ships and they were cranked out at the rate of 1 a day after a certain point during WW2.

    If the ship wasn’t built by what used to be known as ‘ good old yankee knowledge’ plus quality materials and workmanship the conversation about today’s article might have been ” The Day that Egypt Sunk the USS Liberty”.

    Side note, I have a 1937 Studebaker on my property that was dropped off by a friend for “two weeks” 30 years ago. I had been sitting outside since 1958.

    All the frame, fenders and general structure are solid as a rock. The doors (with external hinges) open and shut with one finger. God the yanks built some good shit in the day.

    These days if you googled “1937 Studebaker” don’t be surprised if Alibaba.com comes up.

    Cheers-

    PS: mcohen, I think that your brains were in your foreskin.

    Read More
  31. @mcohen
    phil .why waste your time.the USS liberty was intercepted by soviet forces spying on communications between Russia and Egypt.it was attacked by aircraft piloted by Russian pilots,
    there is no way the USA would directly attack Russian forces in retaliation.it is all about proxy armies doing there bidding.

    Can you imagine the atrocities Israel had our service men and women committing against black and brown people let alone our white brothers and sisters if they can force our government to turn it’s back on WHITE service MEN, not white women, WHITE service men?

    The men who made this country what it is was murdered by Israeli’s with no consequences nor acknowledgement for over 50 years….WOW! And you want to make blacks your enemy?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Eagle Eye
    You really don't get it, do you?

    Let me spell it out to you: Lyndon B. Johnson wanted a war - any war - for fun and profit.

    It is absurd to imagine that the president of the most powerful nation on earth in 1967 would take orders from a barely half-developed country in the Eastern Mediterranean.

    Most likely, LBJ expressly ordered Israel to attack the USS Liberty to give himself an excuse to bomb Cairo. Quite possibly, his orders to bomb Cairo were defied by senior military or civilian leaders afraid of provoking WW III, thus necessitating an impromptu cover-up.

    Put yourself in the shoes of the Israeli leadership in 1967 - why would they risk massively antagonizing the U.S. in the middle of a risky war? The only reasonable explanations are:

    (1) Israel had been ordered by LBJ to sink the USS Liberty (see above). This kind of order would have to have come from LBJ personally, not McNamara, for the Israelis to take on the risk. (Remember the U.S. betrayal of irregular forces at the Bay of Pigs was a recent memory.)

    (2) The USS Liberty itself was a major problem for Israel, e.g. because it was passing key intelligence to Egypt and the Arabs.

    Given the extensive hush-up operations in the U.S. after the fact, (1) seems much more likely. This would also explain why senior U.S. brass went into overdrive concocting bizarre but coordinated stories to deflect attention from their own shameful involvement in the murder of Americans.

  32. @Anon
    I haven't read those links but I am addressing my reply to you because I suggested on an earlier thread that you ought to concede that Israel made a delibrrate attack on the Liberty but I am not 100 per cent convinced that it was an Israeli government decision at the highest level. That is because, for all the enthusiasm shown on UR there is very little reliable evidence about what happened and it occurs to me to try out a few thoughts.

    1. None of the motives suggested are so compelling that it has to be accepted. It follows that all of the suggested motives may be wrong and we therefore have to rely on objective facts and the inability to rule out certain motives;
    2. Some of the theories depend on Liberty being destroyed without evidence left behind or broadcast of how it happened. That's problematic if one concedes how well the IDF's professionals would understand how things go wrong in wars. The problem of credibility grows if you posit that a peripheral action like destroying the Liberty has to be 100 per cent perfect in destroying the ship and killing every las3t crew member before he can communicate with any outsider;
    3. Wouldn't someone say "it's a bit risky boss: some of our pilots are proud of being Yanks as well as Yids and then there are all those with Amrrican friends. Do you think they')l all follow through and then do we trust them never to blab?"
    4. Then there is the simple fact that it would have been easy to sink Liberty on the first sighting with a couple of torpedoes and a couple of heavy bombs (and remember that we aren't supposing that any serious reconnaissance is needed though one can do the never-falsified's trick of imagining that they had to check that jamming was working or....). They didn't so evidently there was some sort of stuff up involved.
    5. Finally, for the moment, there is no reason to believe that seeing the American flag would make the Israelis certain it was a US ship. The number of flights reported early on are consistent with time being taken to clear up uncertainty. What if the really big stuff up qas the failure of communications between the Israeli navy and the UD navy to confirm that it was a US ship? There are enough truly horrifying examples of friendly fire catsstrophes to make that seem plausible who doesn't gape in awe at the competence of military people in action or cerebration.

    Of course the attacks were deliberate on the part of one pr more Israelis. And that is consistent with the later attempts to wrap it all up with a modest compensation payment.

    As for the Johnson Administration and Congress's reluctance to make a big deal of it at the time, several factors have been mentioned which could have made silence to be preferable to full exposure of perhaps the US navy and Israel, especially if it wasn't possible or wasn't prudent to expose the deliberation of high Israeli givernment ministers in planning the attack. I would find it easy to believe that, during the Vietnam War embarrassing the armed forces was regarded as best avoided.

    But yes PG and all. It is surely time to declassify everything.

    Think about it. Who had anything to gain with the USS Liberty attack?

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    • Replies: @Anon
    You tell me. Who indeed could possibly have expected to benefit from such a botched operation? A nd what is the relevance of that rubbishy bit of propaganda that you linked?
    , @Anon
    Didn't you notice the rubbish in that video? One item has just come back to mind. That was the ridiculous charge that the Liberty had been let down because it waschours before help arrived. Obviously the sort of aircraft on the carrier, nuclear armed or not, were no use for rescue, so the question becomes how long it takes for naval ships to cover X hundred miles. Obvious question but you seem content to overlook it.
  33. @mcohen
    phil .why waste your time.the USS liberty was intercepted by soviet forces spying on communications between Russia and Egypt.it was attacked by aircraft piloted by Russian pilots,
    there is no way the USA would directly attack Russian forces in retaliation.it is all about proxy armies doing there bidding.

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  34. The Liberty incident was not covered up. It was investigated and the problem was that 6th Fleet HQ had informed the Israelis we did not have any ships in the region. Flying a false flag is not illegal under international law, as long as the ship is not engaged in hostilities.

    Israel admitted their mistake and paid reparations. Giraldi is simply promulgating a conspiracy theory.

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    • Disagree: anarchyst, for-the-record
    • Replies: @Anon
    If you are right about the 6th Fleet misinforming the Israelis that is the most explanatory fact in all UR's waste of worda on the subject.
    , @SolontoCroesus
    yes yes indeed, it was all a tragic mistake.

    we know this because once the mistake was recognized (and the Israeli pilots had changed out of their orgasm-soaked panties), Israel rushed to aid the survivors of the Liberty. Riiiight.

    ---

    Among the dozen-and-a-half stupid and mendacious things Finkelstein says in the second part of the interview with the painfully p-a-t-i-e-n-t Aaron Mate (make that, Mat - ay, kinda like Benjamin Ni-tay / Netanyahu/Milikovsky) is that "Israel became an asset to USA." http://www.unz.com/pgiraldi/remembering-the-u-s-s-liberty-2/#comment-1896678

    He got it ass backward: LBJ was an asset of the Israelis


    (see Jeff Gates's explication of how the "transgenerational criminal syndicate" aka zionists use assets https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MlbN2GEYW9w&t=48s @5 min:
    "An Asset is Someone who has been profiled in sufficient depth, that if you put them in a time, place and circumstance you know within an acceptable range of probabilities that they will perform consistent with their personality profile."
     
    What's 'er name Krim was in the White House to ensure that LBJ stayed on script; one imagines she had in her overnight bag photos of Jackie's bloody pink suit, in the event LBJ was tempted to stray.

    Regarding Maté combined with the gush- rush of three aging Jewish scribblers to "set the record straight" -- I'm not buying. English Outsider, A commenter on Pat Lang's blog, analyzed a New York Times article that purported to "fairly" report on the situation in Aleppo. English Outsider, who appears to be a PR professional, argued that the NYTimes piece was a "narrative adjustment exercise" --

    "That's a polite way of saying that the press start out by giving us one story but later, when it becomes apparent that the story they were selling is nonsense, they have to try to move to the new story without us noticing the change. . . . you don't have to be an expert to see that that NYT piece cited isn't honest journalism."

    And you don't have to be an aromachologist to detect the bullshit in Finkelstein's tall tales in the second Maté interview.

    As for Maté, he deserves an Emmy for his semi-penitent demeanor in the Finkelstein interviews. He's had plenty of practice, having done reporting for Democracy Now and for The Intercept. MoonofAlabama posted this important take-down of the Intercept -- Do Not Trust The Intercept or How To Burn A Source.

    Nor is mcohen's claim that Finkelstein is Mossad (#32) persuasive: In Der Judenstaat, Theodor Herzl complained/warned:

    "We continue to produce an abundance of mediocre intellects who find no outlet, and this endangers our social position as much as does our increasing wealth. Educated Jews without means are now rapidly becoming Socialists. Hence we are certain to suffer very severely in the struggle between classes, because we stand in the most exposed position in the camps of both Socialists and capitalists. "

    This describes NF to a T, and also serves to explain the proliferation of think-tanks, set up to provide a paycheck for that legion of over-credentialed under-aware faux-intellects seeking relevance -- and a pension.

    , @jilles dykstra
    As if conspiracies do not exist !
    Few of them are well documented, but the 1956 GB, France Israel one against Egypt was.
    Ben Gurion wanted the conspiracy in writing, the French document was never destroyed.
    Helms, former CIA director, in a documentary on the Liberty, BBCW, confirmed the McNamara Israel conspiracy.
    , @chris

    ... the problem was that 6th Fleet HQ had informed the Israelis we did not have any ships in the region.
    Israel admitted their mistake and paid reparations.
     
    Err, if they were induced to make a mistake because of false information from the 6th fleet, why on earth would they ever pay any reparations?

    Do me a favor, when you make up crap like this the next time, have your mom check the logic before you publish the comment.
    , @Anonymous
    6 million for a 40 million ship plus 34 dead and 140 or so wounded is not really reparations.

    If Israel did not control the US, 34 wrongful death settlements and reimbursing military military care for the wounded would come to far more than 6 million. Israel didn't pay the 6 million anyway. Craven US gave the 6 million compensation money to Israel. Then Israel graciously gave it back to America.
  35. @Anonymous
    Jesus Fucking Christ.

    I get it. It was bad.

    But this Giraldi guy might once in a while also turn his eye to other players in the greater game.

    Like Russia, probably having shot down the Polish Leadership in Smolensk.

    Like the 1999 Apartment Bombings having been a Russian False Flag.

    Jesus Fucking Christ.

    I get it. It was bad.

    But this Giraldi guy might once in a while also turn his eye to other players in the greater game.

    Maybe he would do so more often, if the truth were actually allowed to be told about this incident, and if it could be properly recorded and commemorated, with appropriate apologies and accountability for the perpetrators rather than denials.

    Instead it has been suppressed, and those talking about it falsely accused of being anti-Semites and censored. I have witnessed this in action for decades, now.

    Face up properly to the truth, then you can complain about those who continue to “obsess” about the incident.

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  36. The vile Izzies and the even more vile Saud goat herders continue to bitch slap, and occasionally pimp stick, their fat stupid American whore. Venture a guess either could knock down skyscrapers in an American metropolis in broad daylight on national TV and get away with it…….

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    • Replies: @L.K
    The zionists could do it and did it; the zaudis could not. at best they furnished the patsies.
  37. Anon says:     Show CommentNext New Comment
    @American Shniper
    Think about it. Who had anything to gain with the USS Liberty attack?


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rBB6CqCGWh8

    You tell me. Who indeed could possibly have expected to benefit from such a botched operation? A nd what is the relevance of that rubbishy bit of propaganda that you linked?

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  38. Anon says:     Show CommentNext New Comment
    @Quartermaster
    The Liberty incident was not covered up. It was investigated and the problem was that 6th Fleet HQ had informed the Israelis we did not have any ships in the region. Flying a false flag is not illegal under international law, as long as the ship is not engaged in hostilities.

    Israel admitted their mistake and paid reparations. Giraldi is simply promulgating a conspiracy theory.

    If you are right about the 6th Fleet misinforming the Israelis that is the most explanatory fact in all UR’s waste of worda on the subject.

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  39. “The attack was followed by a cover-up that demonstrated clearly that at least one president of the United States even back nearly fifty years ago valued his relationship with the state of Israel above his loyalty to his own country.”

    Such things are a given as long as WASP culture has Jews around. The WASP Elites will always, ALWAYS, sacrifice the majority of white Christians they rule in order to help Jews.

    The problem for the Western World is that WASPs conquered the world, spreading their Judaizing heresies and pro-Semitic cultural values world wide. The temptation for every leader, hereditary or appointed or elected, was to act in accordance with WASP values, WASP decisions, in the hope it would make him and his country rich.

    If the English came to rule the world after going all pro-Semitic, maybe we can too!

    Whining about the US as lap Yorkie to Israel is a waste of time unless you also are knowledgeably proChristendom rather than pro-WASP. WASP culture will always produce Elites who will sell many, or most, of us out to remain BFF with Jews. WASP culture will also produce Elites that will romanticize Arabs and Islam, greatly preferring them the vast majority of white Christians.

    You cannot adequately deal with the many problems inherent in dealings with any Semites if you have not replaced WASP culture.

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    • Replies: @Rurik

    The WASP Elites will always, ALWAYS, sacrifice the majority of white Christians they rule in order to help Jews.
     
    IDK Jake

    it seems to me that the founders of this nation were wholly WASPs, yet had little to do with Jews per se. Benjamin Franklin, a WASP's WASP, purportedly had this to say:


    "There is a great danger for the United State of America. This great danger is the Jew. Gentlemen, in every land the Jews have settled, they have depressed the moral level and lowered the degree of commercial honesty. They have remained apart and unassimilated; oppressed, they attempt to strangle the nation financially, as in the case of Portugal and Spain.

    For more than seventeen hundred years they have lamented their sorrowful fate — namely, that they have been driven out of their mother land; but, gentlemen, if the civilized world today should give them back Palestine and their property, they would immediately find pressing reason for not returning there. Why? Because they are vampires and vampires cannot live on other vampires --they cannot live among themselves. They must live among Christians and others who do not belong to their race.

    If they are not expelled from the United States by the Constitution within less than one hundred years, they will stream into this country in such numbers that they will rule and destroy us and change our form of Government for which we Americans shed our blood and sacrificed our life, property and personal freedom. If the Jews are not excluded within two hundred years, our children will be working in the field to feed Jews while they remain in the counting houses, gleefully rubbing their hands.

    I warn you, gentlemen, if you do not exclude the Jews forever, your children and your children’s children will curse you in their graves. Their ideas are not those of Americans, even when they lived among us for ten generations. The leopard cannot change his spots. The Jews are a danger to this land, and if they are allowed to enter, they will imperil our institutions. They should be excluded by the Constitution."

     

    if you 'Bing' "benjamin franklin on Jews"

    every single page will start with the same Wiki page 'debunking' the speech

    every single page

    what other issue does Bing consider so important that they will start every page with the same article?

    anyways, it seems to me that the early days of this republic had little to do with Jews, other than as slave ship owners and money lenders. I remember how well the local WASPs treated Leo Frank, and it wasn't with kid gloves.

    I suspect that the fealty to all things Jewish began with the charter of the Federal Reserve Bank, fully owed by international Jewish bankster$, and that was when all nations either bowed to all things Jewish, or were eventually forced to by relentless wars until they did. Germany being a prime example.

    I grew up in a WASP household of sorts, and there was no anti-Semitism for sure, but then there wasn't any Judeophilia either. (no rapture bunnies in my WASPy childhood home, just Easter bunnies ; )

    [curious, I 'Binged' the 'protocols of zion'. The first page starts with a Wiki page 'debunking' the Protocols- as you'd expect. But by the second page it's gone. Not so the Franklin speech. Every Bing page on the Franklin speech starts with the Wiki page 'debunking' it]

  40. Anon says:     Show CommentNext New Comment

    PG, I would be interested in your comment on tbe points in #31 but, apart from that, since you aren’t one of the conspiracy mongers about Macnamara and LBJ, I wonder how you assess suggestions of active malevolent evil on their part against what is to be inferred about their characters and values from a very full public record. The Johnson of the Great Society, while a cunning and ruthless political operator, doesn’t strike me as a man who would lightly sacrifice American sailors, and Macnamara, even in the 1960s, doesn’t seem to have been at all likeĺy to have approved sending nuclear armed planes anywhere that could have involved nuking Cairo.

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  41. The cynic in me wonders if the IDF made an analysis of whether there were any of the Chosen People on the Liberty before opening fire. That sounds like something they very well might have done, as they would probably be able to instantly get the crew manifest from one of their Pollard-like moles in the Navy.

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    • Replies: @anon
    Might be interesting to find out how many Tribesmen were on the Liberty while it was in the Indian Ocean and how many still aboard after it was deployed to the Mediterranean.
    , @David In TN
    There were some Jews among the Liberty's crew. One was an interviewee in a documentary I saw years ago.
  42. @Lot
    Kind of obsessed, huh?


    http://www.unz.com/pgiraldi/the-uss-liberty-must-not-be-forgotten/
    http://www.unz.com/pgiraldi/the-uss-libertys-final-chapter/
    http://www.unz.com/pgiraldi/remembering-the-u-s-s-liberty/
    http://www.unz.com/pgiraldi/remembering-the-u-s-s-liberty-2/
    http://www.unz.com/pgiraldi/israels-friends-against-the-first-amendment/
    http://www.unz.com/pgiraldi/why-i-still-dislike-israel/
    http://www.unz.com/pgiraldi/mossad-in-america/


    For more Unz.com coverage:

    http://www.unz.com/article/infamy-at-sea/
    http://www.unz.com/proberts/israels-slaughter-of-us-sailors/
    http://www.unz.com/proberts/the-israeli-attack-on-the-uss-liberty/
    http://www.unz.com/proberts/surviving-sailors-break-their-silence-40-years-after-israeli-attack-on-us-navy-ship/
    http://www.unz.com/proberts/lest-we-forget-the-uss-liberty/
    http://www.unz.com/proberts/no-american-president-can-stand-up-to-israel/
    http://www.unz.com/proberts/the-israel-lobby-eliminates-another-critic/
    http://www.unz.com/article/american-legion-honchos-betray-liberty-veterans/
    http://www.unz.com/article/leaving-the-crew-of-the-uss-liberty-behind/
    http://www.unz.com/article/sf-imc-interview-jeffrey-blankfort-jewish-american-anti-zionist-journalist/
    http://www.unz.com/jpetras/the-major-jewish-american-organizations-defend-israels-humiliation-of-america/

    This site is dedicated to covering things that others – the MSM in particular – do not. So why is it strange for Mr. Giraldi to bring some attention to the Liberty incident, given that it receives little attention elsewhere.

    By the way, why has there never even been a movie made about the U.S.S. Liberty? Movies have been made about other cold-war-era incidents at sea: The U.S.S. Pueblo incident and the defection of Simas Kudirka, for instance. So why has there never even been a made-for-TV movie about the U.S.S. Liberty? Even if it was just a mistake, it was a noteworthy one, was it not?

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    • Replies: @RobinG
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kjOH1XMAwZA

    "USS Liberty: Dead In The Water" (BBC Documentary 2002)
    , @anon
    The MSM doesnt cover the Indonesian occupation and genocide in West Papua or Maluku. Nor do they cover the Moroccan occupation and war crimes in Western Sahara . The Turkish occupation of Cyprus is ignored by the MSM . The apartheid in all Islamic countries where converting to Christianity is a death penalty offense. Why does Giraldi ignore these stories but has a dozen posts about USS Liberty if he is interested in shedding light on MSM oversights and cover ups.
    , @cucksworth
    Imagine if we made a movie about what really happened before and during 9-11.
  43. Anon says:     Show CommentNext New Comment
    @American Shniper
    Think about it. Who had anything to gain with the USS Liberty attack?


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rBB6CqCGWh8

    Didn’t you notice the rubbish in that video? One item has just come back to mind. That was the ridiculous charge that the Liberty had been let down because it waschours before help arrived. Obviously the sort of aircraft on the carrier, nuclear armed or not, were no use for rescue, so the question becomes how long it takes for naval ships to cover X hundred miles. Obvious question but you seem content to overlook it.

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  44. @Che Guava
    The ship you are thinking of is the Yamato.

    Yamamoto was the admiral who reluctantly but to the best of his ability led the attack on Pearl Harbour (very effective and brilliant, except for the mysteriously missing carriers) and various other actions until his later assassination by US presidential order.

    A military genius, and he knew what the absence of carriers meant.

    Using torpedo boats is equivalent to such a bomb as your pilot described, but the Liberty did not sink before the situation changed enough to make the Israelis back off.

    Your pilot sounds like a very poisonous person.

    Not that effective or brilliant. The fixation on battleship row was sophomoric. According to Admiral Nimitz, taking out the shore support facilities would have had a much greater impact on the US ability to wage war in the Pacific, forcing the US fleet to base its operations out of San Diego. That would have made it virtually impossible to project US power into the western Pacific during the crucial time in which the battles of the Coral Sea, Midway, and Guadalcanal took place.
    The Japanese also had an unrealized opportunity to seize Oahu because the land forces defending it were weak. As it was, most of the damaged ships were salvaged after sitting in the mud and they were facing obsolescence as first line assets with the battleship and carrier building program then underway.

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    • Replies: @Dave Pinsen
    What if the Japanese hadn't attacked Pearl Harbor at all, and just pursued their offensives in Southeast Asia?
    , @Che Guava
    You have a good point, but the big surprise in that surprise attack (preceded by a declaration of war) was the absence of carriers.

    The fleet aviation did not have the capacity to break up wharves and so on.

    The target had been ships, and the more decisive of the USN ones were mysteriously in a Pacific gyre, doing nothing.
    , @Che Guava
    You have a good point, but the big surprise in that surprise attack (preceded by a declaration of war) was the absence of carriers.

    The fleet aviation did not have the capacity to break up wharves and so on.

    The target had been ships, and the more decisive of the USN ones were mysteriously in a Pacific gyre, doing nothing.
    , @Lot
    Taking out shore support in a single very long range sneak attack is not realistic.
  45. @JA139

    a victim of a particularly brutal and unprovoked attack by Israel that has been covered up for half a century by the powers that be in Washington.
     
    The entire 6-day war was a particularly brutal and unprovoked attack by Israel against Egypt and other Arab states. Just as the Israeli government lied about the attack on the Liberty, they lied about being attacked by Egypt. When are the US populatation going to say enough and force the US government to stop supporting this mendacious, duplicious and brutal apartheid artificial Zionist colony in the Middle East?

    Not easy when the entire MSM including Fox is controlled by ‘them’.

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  46. @Joe Franklin
    Here's the official USS Liberty survivors website, authored by the Navy servicemen that survived the Israeli attack:

    http://www.gtr5.com/

    On June 8, 1967, US Navy intelligence ship USS Liberty was suddenly and brutally attacked on the high seas in international waters by the air and naval forces of Israel. The Israeli forces attacked with full knowledge that this was an American ship and lied about it. Survivors have been forbidden for 40 years to tell their story under oath to the American public. The USS Liberty Memorial web site tells their story and is dedicated to the memory of the 34 brave men who died.




    The Attack


    After surveilling USS Liberty for more than nine hours with almost hourly aircraft overflights and radar tracking, the air and naval forces of Israel attacked our ship in international waters without warning. USS Liberty was identified as a US naval ship by Israeli reconnaissance aircraft nine hours before the attack and continuously tracked by Israeli radar and aircraft thereafter. Sailing in international waters at less than five knots, with no offensive armament, our ship was not a military threat to anyone.

    The Israeli forces attacked without warning and without attempting to contact us. Thirty four Americans were killed in the attack and another 174 were wounded. The ship, a $40-million dollar state-of-the-art signals intelligence platform, was later declared unsalvageable and sold for scrap.


    The Cover Up

    Despite a near-universal consensus that the Israeli attack was made with full knowledge that USS Liberty was a US Navy ship, the Johnson administration began an immediate cover-up of this fact. Though administration officers continued individually to characterize the attack as deliberate, the Johnson administration never sought the prosecution of the guilty parties or otherwise attempted to seek justice for the victims. They concealed and altered evidence in their effort to downplay the attack. Though they never formally accepted the Israeli explanation that it was an accident, they never pressed for a full investigation either. They simply allowed those responsible literally to get away with murder.

    In an ongoing effort to reveal the truth about the attack, the USS Liberty Veterans Association has filed with the Secretary of the Army in the manner prescribed by law a detailed, fully documented Report of War Crimes describing the circumstances of the attack on our ship and evidence that it was a crime under international law. In accordance with international law and treaties, the United States is obligated to investigate the allegations. So far, the United States has declined even to acknowledge that the report has been filed. The full text of the report can be found at http://www.gtr5.com/evidence/warcrimes.pdf

     

    In an ongoing effort to reveal the truth about the attack, the USS Liberty Veterans Association has filed with the Secretary of the Army in the manner prescribed by law a detailed, fully documented Report of War Crimes describing the circumstances of the attack on our ship and evidence that it was a crime under international law.

    With all due respect to the heroic sailors and civilian staff of the USS Liberty – they were sacrificed by the U.S. military to justify a war against Egypt. LBJ wanted war FOR HIS OWN PURPOSES, but apparently later pulled back. So much for the idea of LBJ being an Israeli puppet.

    Let’s look at a timeline:

    October 1956 – March 1957 Great Britain, France and Israel join to retake control of the Suez Canal. Eisenhower administration takes vigorous steps to force all three to retreat from Egypt.

    November 24, 1963 – Former (?) CIA agent Lee Harvey Oswald is murdered in LBJ’s home state of Texas. Oswald had earlier served as radio operator keeping in touch with Gary Powers during Powers’ overflights of the Soviet Union. Powers himself later confirmed this in a book. Powers later died when his helicopter crashed.

    Two days earlier, JFK had also been murdered in Texas, clearing the way for LBJ to become president.

    August 1964 – LBJ stages the “Gulf of Tonkin” incident to justify all-out U.S. involvement in the Vietnam War.

    June 1967 – LBJ and McNamara are kept informed in real time as the U.S. intelligence vessel USS Liberty is attacked and sunk by a combined air/sea attack. U.S. aircraft are scrambled but are recalled on personal orders from McNamara, almost certainly at LBJ’s instructions.

    The U.S. military command was throughout following the USS Liberty incident in real time through radar, radio, visual surveillance and intelligence sources in Israel and Egypt.

    January 1968 – Still not satisfied in his blood lust, LBJ stages yet another incident sacrificing a U.S. intelligence vessel, the USS Pueblo. This time, the aim is to provoke yet another confrontation with North Korea in the middle of the Vietnam war.

    CONCLUSION: Johnson wanted war, the more the better. War presents great opportunities for profiteering, and just as importantly, allows an administration to push through policies that would never be tolerated in peacetime.

    Fellow Democrats Woodrow Wilson (WW I), FDR (WW II) and Harry Truman (Korea) had shown how it’s done.

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    • Replies: @Jus' Sayin'...
    Hasbara. Cleverer than usual. Probably worth a bonus from Mossad. But still just Hasbara attempting to muddy the waters and draw attention away from the true villains.
    , @chris
    Nice try!

    Your beautiful theory doesn't explain why Israel would ever have gone along with such a plan?
    Johnson: "ok, Moishe, you sink one of my ships and I'll destroy Egypt for you, yeah, no, I'm not kidding"

    Back to the drawing board!
  47. @n230099
    Someone sure has a bug-up-their-butt about this. "War" is always a mess. Deal with it...we used to throw VC out the huey doors till the last one gave up what we wanted to hear. Now we buy our shirts and shoes from there. The time spent re-living the "Liberty" is time you will "never get back".

    No, the Liberty affair is one of the few ‘unadulterated’ examples that clearly shows that the Zionists are not our friends! So it must be kept ‘alive’!

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  48. Attention: All UNZ Readers and Commenters

    SUBJECT: The Six-Day War and the attempted sinking of the USS Liberty by Israeli Defence Forces

    “What did the President Know, and When Did he Know It?”

    Feature Article: Of Treachery, Treason, Terror, Truth, and Liberty Forsaken (An American Tale) Part One (Part Two in 2 Days)

    http://poxamerikana.com/2017/05/08/of-treachery-treason-terror-truth-and-liberty-forsaken-an-american-tale-part-1/

    For those who’ve not seen my latest article above — the first instalment of a two parter, with the second part due June 8 — I trust you can all find time to read* and if you like what you read, then repost on your respective Facebook TLs, and otherwise circulate, republish, and/or Tweet as you see fit.

    Taking my cue from Phil Nelson’s new book, Remember the Liberty: Almost Sunk by Treason on the High Seas but incorporating numerous other sources, my comprehensive analysis and commentary on the Liberty tragedy and the Six-Day War in which it took place is I believe one of the most important topics I’ve attempted to cover. The real backstory behind both of these events is one that has rarely if ever been explored — much less exposed — in such depth. As a heads up, there is one especially shocking revelation (to be revealed in Part 2), that will test most folks ability to cope with cognitive dissonance. It changes the narrative completely.

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  49. @Quartermaster
    The Liberty incident was not covered up. It was investigated and the problem was that 6th Fleet HQ had informed the Israelis we did not have any ships in the region. Flying a false flag is not illegal under international law, as long as the ship is not engaged in hostilities.

    Israel admitted their mistake and paid reparations. Giraldi is simply promulgating a conspiracy theory.

    yes yes indeed, it was all a tragic mistake.

    we know this because once the mistake was recognized (and the Israeli pilots had changed out of their orgasm-soaked panties), Israel rushed to aid the survivors of the Liberty. Riiiight.

    Among the dozen-and-a-half stupid and mendacious things Finkelstein says in the second part of the interview with the painfully p-a-t-i-e-n-t Aaron Mate (make that, Mat – ay, kinda like Benjamin Ni-tay / Netanyahu/Milikovsky) is that “Israel became an asset to USA.” http://www.unz.com/pgiraldi/remembering-the-u-s-s-liberty-2/#comment-1896678

    He got it ass backward: LBJ was an asset of the Israelis

    (see Jeff Gates’s explication of how the “transgenerational criminal syndicate” aka zionists use assets https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MlbN2GEYW9w&t=48s @5 min:
    “An Asset is Someone who has been profiled in sufficient depth, that if you put them in a time, place and circumstance you know within an acceptable range of probabilities that they will perform consistent with their personality profile.”

    What’s ‘er name Krim was in the White House to ensure that LBJ stayed on script; one imagines she had in her overnight bag photos of Jackie’s bloody pink suit, in the event LBJ was tempted to stray.

    Regarding Maté combined with the gush- rush of three aging Jewish scribblers to “set the record straight” — I’m not buying. English Outsider, A commenter on Pat Lang’s blog, analyzed a New York Times article that purported to “fairly” report on the situation in Aleppo. English Outsider, who appears to be a PR professional, argued that the NYTimes piece was a “narrative adjustment exercise”

    “That’s a polite way of saying that the press start out by giving us one story but later, when it becomes apparent that the story they were selling is nonsense, they have to try to move to the new story without us noticing the change. . . . you don’t have to be an expert to see that that NYT piece cited isn’t honest journalism.”

    And you don’t have to be an aromachologist to detect the bullshit in Finkelstein’s tall tales in the second Maté interview.

    As for Maté, he deserves an Emmy for his semi-penitent demeanor in the Finkelstein interviews. He’s had plenty of practice, having done reporting for Democracy Now and for The Intercept. MoonofAlabama posted this important take-down of the Intercept — Do Not Trust The Intercept or How To Burn A Source.

    Nor is mcohen’s claim that Finkelstein is Mossad (#32) persuasive: In Der Judenstaat, Theodor Herzl complained/warned:

    “We continue to produce an abundance of mediocre intellects who find no outlet, and this endangers our social position as much as does our increasing wealth. Educated Jews without means are now rapidly becoming Socialists. Hence we are certain to suffer very severely in the struggle between classes, because we stand in the most exposed position in the camps of both Socialists and capitalists. “

    This describes NF to a T, and also serves to explain the proliferation of think-tanks, set up to provide a paycheck for that legion of over-credentialed under-aware faux-intellects seeking relevance — and a pension.

    Read More
    • Replies: @L.K
    I think that in the case of Finkelstein, it has to do with the fact that though he tells some truths and has done some good research re Palestine, ultimately, he is a Jewish gatekeeper.
    Rarely if ever do we see Finkelstein discussing the influence of zionist lobbies distorting ZUS foreign policy and the zionist's pervasive influence in media, finance, politics, etc.
    He sort of follows Chomsky, a big Jew gatekeeper.
    There is a pattern I think, if the Jews cannot exercise censorship over certain topics they don't want people talking about, they try to control discourse in other ways, so they can obfuscate & misdirect, they are very good at infiltration too.
    Think Chomsky with his BS about wars for oil and he is the one who's been pushing the notion Israel is some sort of M.E asset for ZUSA, which is pure nonsense.
    Finkelstein seems to be just parroting Chomsky in this regard.
  50. @jilles dykstra
    Katyn was in 1940, I suppose.
    Already at Nuremberg the USA and GB knew quite well that it was mass murder perpetrated by Stalin.
    Somewhere in the nineties Putin confirmed this.
    Pearl Harbour still has not been confirmed by the USA as deliberate provocation, Sept 11 fairy tales still are believed, near Amsterdam Airport, Schiphol, a wood has been planted with a tree for each of the MH17 victims.
    The responsibility for MH17 has not been ascertained to this day.
    Yet it seems that Ukraine is to blame, commercial flights were used to shield bombers against BUKs.
    MH370 will never be solved, I expect, yet the suspicion is against the USA, in the plane were two groups of Chinese experts on making planes invisible for radar.
    In Israel is a six million tree wood.
    Myths are very important in politics.
    The relatively few deaths of the Liberty are of no importance, except to the survivors.

    You must be a book reader and internet researcher. Good post Jilles Dykstra.

    Sep 5, 2016 9/11 Suspects: Rudy Giuliani

    Mayor Giuliani oversaw the illegal destruction of the 9/11 crime scene and is criminally liable for the deaths of hundreds of emergency workers for not passing on prior warnings about the collapses of the Twin Towers. It is no wonder, then, that the Fire Department of New York so passionately detest Giuliani for his actions in disgracing their fallen brothers and covering up the 9/11 crime.

    https://youtu.be/Cl85JSvDmsA

    September 07, 2016 September 11, 2001: The 15th Anniversary of the Crime and Cover-up of the Century “What Really Happened”?

    The arrow points to a “squib” of exploding gas which is commonly seen with controlled demolitions. Some of the “splinters” seen (the only solid objects that did not pulverize into dust) are actually chunks of steel beams that were being exploded upward and laterally. The nicely-sectioned steel beams and girders were soon ordered by New York Mayor Rudy Giuliani to be trucked away and shipped to China – an order that constitutes disturbing a crime scene – which is a federal crime.

    http://www.globalresearch.ca/september-11-2001-the-15th-anniversary-of-the-crime-and-cover-up-of-the-century/5544414

    Read More
  51. @Quartermaster
    The Liberty incident was not covered up. It was investigated and the problem was that 6th Fleet HQ had informed the Israelis we did not have any ships in the region. Flying a false flag is not illegal under international law, as long as the ship is not engaged in hostilities.

    Israel admitted their mistake and paid reparations. Giraldi is simply promulgating a conspiracy theory.

    As if conspiracies do not exist !
    Few of them are well documented, but the 1956 GB, France Israel one against Egypt was.
    Ben Gurion wanted the conspiracy in writing, the French document was never destroyed.
    Helms, former CIA director, in a documentary on the Liberty, BBCW, confirmed the McNamara Israel conspiracy.

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  52. @DaveE
    The only thing more depressing than the Liberty attack is the complete lack of shame by the lying, degenerate hasbara crowd.

    You can set your watch to it, so reliable is its frequency. It just never ends, does it?

    One wonders how they might act if they were to achieve their long-term goals and there were no more goyim left to lie to or ones worth exploiting; none remaining to react against and thereby and fuel their behavior. What behaviors would they have left?

    Maybe they’d just switch-off like killer robots who’ve completed their mission.

    Read More
    • Replies: @NoseytheDuke
    No. Factions will arise, they are there already, then they will turn on one another. Long knives etc.
  53. @Jake
    "The attack was followed by a cover-up that demonstrated clearly that at least one president of the United States even back nearly fifty years ago valued his relationship with the state of Israel above his loyalty to his own country."

    Such things are a given as long as WASP culture has Jews around. The WASP Elites will always, ALWAYS, sacrifice the majority of white Christians they rule in order to help Jews.

    The problem for the Western World is that WASPs conquered the world, spreading their Judaizing heresies and pro-Semitic cultural values world wide. The temptation for every leader, hereditary or appointed or elected, was to act in accordance with WASP values, WASP decisions, in the hope it would make him and his country rich.

    If the English came to rule the world after going all pro-Semitic, maybe we can too!

    Whining about the US as lap Yorkie to Israel is a waste of time unless you also are knowledgeably proChristendom rather than pro-WASP. WASP culture will always produce Elites who will sell many, or most, of us out to remain BFF with Jews. WASP culture will also produce Elites that will romanticize Arabs and Islam, greatly preferring them the vast majority of white Christians.

    You cannot adequately deal with the many problems inherent in dealings with any Semites if you have not replaced WASP culture.

    The WASP Elites will always, ALWAYS, sacrifice the majority of white Christians they rule in order to help Jews.

    IDK Jake

    it seems to me that the founders of this nation were wholly WASPs, yet had little to do with Jews per se. Benjamin Franklin, a WASP’s WASP, purportedly had this to say:

    “There is a great danger for the United State of America. This great danger is the Jew. Gentlemen, in every land the Jews have settled, they have depressed the moral level and lowered the degree of commercial honesty. They have remained apart and unassimilated; oppressed, they attempt to strangle the nation financially, as in the case of Portugal and Spain.

    For more than seventeen hundred years they have lamented their sorrowful fate — namely, that they have been driven out of their mother land; but, gentlemen, if the civilized world today should give them back Palestine and their property, they would immediately find pressing reason for not returning there. Why? Because they are vampires and vampires cannot live on other vampires –they cannot live among themselves. They must live among Christians and others who do not belong to their race.

    If they are not expelled from the United States by the Constitution within less than one hundred years, they will stream into this country in such numbers that they will rule and destroy us and change our form of Government for which we Americans shed our blood and sacrificed our life, property and personal freedom. If the Jews are not excluded within two hundred years, our children will be working in the field to feed Jews while they remain in the counting houses, gleefully rubbing their hands.

    I warn you, gentlemen, if you do not exclude the Jews forever, your children and your children’s children will curse you in their graves. Their ideas are not those of Americans, even when they lived among us for ten generations. The leopard cannot change his spots. The Jews are a danger to this land, and if they are allowed to enter, they will imperil our institutions. They should be excluded by the Constitution.”

    if you ‘Bing’ “benjamin franklin on Jews”

    every single page will start with the same Wiki page ‘debunking’ the speech

    every single page

    what other issue does Bing consider so important that they will start every page with the same article?

    anyways, it seems to me that the early days of this republic had little to do with Jews, other than as slave ship owners and money lenders. I remember how well the local WASPs treated Leo Frank, and it wasn’t with kid gloves.

    I suspect that the fealty to all things Jewish began with the charter of the Federal Reserve Bank, fully owed by international Jewish bankster$, and that was when all nations either bowed to all things Jewish, or were eventually forced to by relentless wars until they did. Germany being a prime example.

    I grew up in a WASP household of sorts, and there was no anti-Semitism for sure, but then there wasn’t any Judeophilia either. (no rapture bunnies in my WASPy childhood home, just Easter bunnies ; )

    [curious, I 'Binged' the 'protocols of zion'. The first page starts with a Wiki page 'debunking' the Protocols- as you'd expect. But by the second page it's gone. Not so the Franklin speech. Every Bing page on the Franklin speech starts with the Wiki page 'debunking' it]

    Read More
    • Replies: @Rurik

    if you ‘Bing’ “benjamin franklin on Jews”

    every single page will start with the same Wiki page ‘debunking’ the speech
     
    if you're going to try this, you have to remove the quotation marks for it to work ;)
    , @Eagle Eye

    Benjamin Franklin, a WASP’s WASP, purportedly had this to say:
     
    The entire quoted passage is bunk as will be obvious to anyone who has ACTUALLY read political documents from the 18th and 19th century. Real Americans are familiar, for instance, with the Federalist Letters, and with some private correspondence both during the 18th century Revolutionary War and the 19th century Civil War.

    In the quoted passage, the reference to "Palestine" is anachronistic - the area was a non-descript Ottoman territory during Franklin's life, part of the Beirut Villayet.

    Equally, the word "vampire" is a blatant anachronism. The whole vampire craze only started in the 19th century.

    The whole focus on Jews is also bizarre - there were very few Jews in the American colonies during Franklin's lifetime.

    Lastly, the diction of the quoted passage is fake 19th century written in the 20th century. Ben Franklin died in 1790.

    Styles change. Nobody would mistake a Hank Williams song for a 1980s hit. The quoted passage sounds completely "off" in the same way, only more so.

  54. @Rurik

    The WASP Elites will always, ALWAYS, sacrifice the majority of white Christians they rule in order to help Jews.
     
    IDK Jake

    it seems to me that the founders of this nation were wholly WASPs, yet had little to do with Jews per se. Benjamin Franklin, a WASP's WASP, purportedly had this to say:


    "There is a great danger for the United State of America. This great danger is the Jew. Gentlemen, in every land the Jews have settled, they have depressed the moral level and lowered the degree of commercial honesty. They have remained apart and unassimilated; oppressed, they attempt to strangle the nation financially, as in the case of Portugal and Spain.

    For more than seventeen hundred years they have lamented their sorrowful fate — namely, that they have been driven out of their mother land; but, gentlemen, if the civilized world today should give them back Palestine and their property, they would immediately find pressing reason for not returning there. Why? Because they are vampires and vampires cannot live on other vampires --they cannot live among themselves. They must live among Christians and others who do not belong to their race.

    If they are not expelled from the United States by the Constitution within less than one hundred years, they will stream into this country in such numbers that they will rule and destroy us and change our form of Government for which we Americans shed our blood and sacrificed our life, property and personal freedom. If the Jews are not excluded within two hundred years, our children will be working in the field to feed Jews while they remain in the counting houses, gleefully rubbing their hands.

    I warn you, gentlemen, if you do not exclude the Jews forever, your children and your children’s children will curse you in their graves. Their ideas are not those of Americans, even when they lived among us for ten generations. The leopard cannot change his spots. The Jews are a danger to this land, and if they are allowed to enter, they will imperil our institutions. They should be excluded by the Constitution."

     

    if you 'Bing' "benjamin franklin on Jews"

    every single page will start with the same Wiki page 'debunking' the speech

    every single page

    what other issue does Bing consider so important that they will start every page with the same article?

    anyways, it seems to me that the early days of this republic had little to do with Jews, other than as slave ship owners and money lenders. I remember how well the local WASPs treated Leo Frank, and it wasn't with kid gloves.

    I suspect that the fealty to all things Jewish began with the charter of the Federal Reserve Bank, fully owed by international Jewish bankster$, and that was when all nations either bowed to all things Jewish, or were eventually forced to by relentless wars until they did. Germany being a prime example.

    I grew up in a WASP household of sorts, and there was no anti-Semitism for sure, but then there wasn't any Judeophilia either. (no rapture bunnies in my WASPy childhood home, just Easter bunnies ; )

    [curious, I 'Binged' the 'protocols of zion'. The first page starts with a Wiki page 'debunking' the Protocols- as you'd expect. But by the second page it's gone. Not so the Franklin speech. Every Bing page on the Franklin speech starts with the Wiki page 'debunking' it]

    if you ‘Bing’ “benjamin franklin on Jews”

    every single page will start with the same Wiki page ‘debunking’ the speech

    if you’re going to try this, you have to remove the quotation marks for it to work ;)

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  55. @Rurik

    The WASP Elites will always, ALWAYS, sacrifice the majority of white Christians they rule in order to help Jews.
     
    IDK Jake

    it seems to me that the founders of this nation were wholly WASPs, yet had little to do with Jews per se. Benjamin Franklin, a WASP's WASP, purportedly had this to say:


    "There is a great danger for the United State of America. This great danger is the Jew. Gentlemen, in every land the Jews have settled, they have depressed the moral level and lowered the degree of commercial honesty. They have remained apart and unassimilated; oppressed, they attempt to strangle the nation financially, as in the case of Portugal and Spain.

    For more than seventeen hundred years they have lamented their sorrowful fate — namely, that they have been driven out of their mother land; but, gentlemen, if the civilized world today should give them back Palestine and their property, they would immediately find pressing reason for not returning there. Why? Because they are vampires and vampires cannot live on other vampires --they cannot live among themselves. They must live among Christians and others who do not belong to their race.

    If they are not expelled from the United States by the Constitution within less than one hundred years, they will stream into this country in such numbers that they will rule and destroy us and change our form of Government for which we Americans shed our blood and sacrificed our life, property and personal freedom. If the Jews are not excluded within two hundred years, our children will be working in the field to feed Jews while they remain in the counting houses, gleefully rubbing their hands.

    I warn you, gentlemen, if you do not exclude the Jews forever, your children and your children’s children will curse you in their graves. Their ideas are not those of Americans, even when they lived among us for ten generations. The leopard cannot change his spots. The Jews are a danger to this land, and if they are allowed to enter, they will imperil our institutions. They should be excluded by the Constitution."

     

    if you 'Bing' "benjamin franklin on Jews"

    every single page will start with the same Wiki page 'debunking' the speech

    every single page

    what other issue does Bing consider so important that they will start every page with the same article?

    anyways, it seems to me that the early days of this republic had little to do with Jews, other than as slave ship owners and money lenders. I remember how well the local WASPs treated Leo Frank, and it wasn't with kid gloves.

    I suspect that the fealty to all things Jewish began with the charter of the Federal Reserve Bank, fully owed by international Jewish bankster$, and that was when all nations either bowed to all things Jewish, or were eventually forced to by relentless wars until they did. Germany being a prime example.

    I grew up in a WASP household of sorts, and there was no anti-Semitism for sure, but then there wasn't any Judeophilia either. (no rapture bunnies in my WASPy childhood home, just Easter bunnies ; )

    [curious, I 'Binged' the 'protocols of zion'. The first page starts with a Wiki page 'debunking' the Protocols- as you'd expect. But by the second page it's gone. Not so the Franklin speech. Every Bing page on the Franklin speech starts with the Wiki page 'debunking' it]

    Benjamin Franklin, a WASP’s WASP, purportedly had this to say:

    The entire quoted passage is bunk as will be obvious to anyone who has ACTUALLY read political documents from the 18th and 19th century. Real Americans are familiar, for instance, with the Federalist Letters, and with some private correspondence both during the 18th century Revolutionary War and the 19th century Civil War.

    In the quoted passage, the reference to “Palestine” is anachronistic – the area was a non-descript Ottoman territory during Franklin’s life, part of the Beirut Villayet.

    Equally, the word “vampire” is a blatant anachronism. The whole vampire craze only started in the 19th century.

    The whole focus on Jews is also bizarre – there were very few Jews in the American colonies during Franklin’s lifetime.

    Lastly, the diction of the quoted passage is fake 19th century written in the 20th century. Ben Franklin died in 1790.

    Styles change. Nobody would mistake a Hank Williams song for a 1980s hit. The quoted passage sounds completely “off” in the same way, only more so.

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    • Replies: @Rurik

    quoted passage is bunk
     
    perhaps

    I did sort of think the reference to vampires sounded gauche for someone like Franklin

    but then in a way, just like the Protocols, it does seem to strike a resonant cord, eh?


    they have depressed the moral level and lowered the degree of commercial honesty. They have remained apart and unassimilated; ... they attempt to strangle the nation financially
     

    they will stream into this country in such numbers that they will rule and destroy us and change our form of Government for which we Americans shed our blood and sacrificed our life, property and personal freedom.
     

    our children will be working in the field to feed Jews while they remain in the counting houses, gleefully rubbing their hands.
     
    I mean, isn't Robert Rubin and Goldman Sach$ Inc. looting this nation blind?

    even if he didn't say it, it was nonetheless prescient, no?

    for the record I don't blame the Jews for doing anything that the venal, cowardly WASPs didn't help them do. I just suspect that WASPs in general are not so much enamored of the Jews, as afraid of them. It's isn't Jewish treachery that is so unspeakably vile- as in the attack on the USS Liberty, but WASP cowardice and treason and sycophantic groveling, that's so repulsive. I don't blame the treacherous IDF as much as I blame the American government / military for countenancing the murder of their own, by a nation that receives untold billion$ of dollars in tribute
    Jared Kushner is not a cuck when he agitates for all things Zion, but rather it's the step-n-fetch goyim congress that reek of pusillanimous pandering.

    , @JoaoAlfaiate
    Perhaps Franklin never said about the Jews what he is purported to have said. Shall we then conclude that the passage is art imitating life?
  56. @mcohen
    geokat
    should know that normal finkelstein has been a mossad operative for some time.a branch similar to 8100.you been had my cad.
    your hatred of Israel has blinded you to the fact that it was american military hardware that won the day.the 6 day war victory was just a spinoff.in a competing arms race against the soviets american military hardware proved superior.the Israeli s paid the price in blood for this marketing campaign. the rewards were more land.
    you and your fellow fake Palestinian supporters should suck it up the back passage and trump(et) it out your ears for that daily mind cleansing ritual

    As far as I know, the Israelis used mostly French equipment in the 1967 war.

    They also had British centurion tanks.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Z-man
    The turn came after '67 when America became Israel complete, 100% bitch. In the '73 war the Egyptians and Syrians were doing ok against the Zionists, so much so that they begged Washington for more heavy resupplies witch turned their fortunes and then let to a cease fire. Nixon fucked up, he should have let them lose more before intervening to get a cease fire!
    , @mcohen
    American tanks and artillery.french jets.chinese toe jammers.
  57. @roberthstiver
    I firmly believe that among the elements central to this criminally psychotic operation was the Zionists' "testing" of America. Success would mean that thenceforth the Zioentity would know that it had the U.S. in its pocket and under its control (control--->domination...) and essentially would have carte blanche to do anything it wanted to further its enterprise. Voila....

    Great commentary by Phil Giraldi! Justice for the fallen and the survivors of the Liberty! Oh -- and Justice for Palestine!

    Well, that’s a rather risky test. Big downside.

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  58. @Anonymous
    Jesus Fucking Christ.

    I get it. It was bad.

    But this Giraldi guy might once in a while also turn his eye to other players in the greater game.

    Like Russia, probably having shot down the Polish Leadership in Smolensk.

    Like the 1999 Apartment Bombings having been a Russian False Flag.

    Yeah. Why don’t we ever hear any criticism of Russia here in the US? It’s odd.

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  59. @Jon Halpenny
    As far as I know, the Israelis used mostly French equipment in the 1967 war.

    They also had British centurion tanks.

    The turn came after ’67 when America became Israel complete, 100% bitch. In the ’73 war the Egyptians and Syrians were doing ok against the Zionists, so much so that they begged Washington for more heavy resupplies witch turned their fortunes and then let to a cease fire. Nixon fucked up, he should have let them lose more before intervening to get a cease fire!

    Read More
    • Replies: @anonHUN
    " Nixon fucked up, he should have let them lose more before intervening to get a cease fire!"

    Well Israel was about to nuke the Arabs in that war (they already had nukes in 1967 but weren't needed as it turned out). If the US didn't send those shipments of arms to cover their losses and had the war continue to go badly for Israel then they would have dropped the Bomb.
  60. “One has to hope that both LBJ and McNamara are currently burning in hell.”

    I have it from a supposedly well connected source that Lyndon’s currently waiting in the wings, suspended by his ears for the interim.

    Norman Finkelstein was interviewed recently about The Liberty attack, and expressed his own non-mainstream but likely reasonable views of why the Israeli forces in the area decided to hit America, too – to establish who is in full military control and who isn’t.

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  61. @Eagle Eye

    In an ongoing effort to reveal the truth about the attack, the USS Liberty Veterans Association has filed with the Secretary of the Army in the manner prescribed by law a detailed, fully documented Report of War Crimes describing the circumstances of the attack on our ship and evidence that it was a crime under international law.
     
    With all due respect to the heroic sailors and civilian staff of the USS Liberty - they were sacrificed by the U.S. military to justify a war against Egypt. LBJ wanted war FOR HIS OWN PURPOSES, but apparently later pulled back. So much for the idea of LBJ being an Israeli puppet.

    Let's look at a timeline:

    October 1956 - March 1957 Great Britain, France and Israel join to retake control of the Suez Canal. Eisenhower administration takes vigorous steps to force all three to retreat from Egypt.

    November 24, 1963 - Former (?) CIA agent Lee Harvey Oswald is murdered in LBJ's home state of Texas. Oswald had earlier served as radio operator keeping in touch with Gary Powers during Powers' overflights of the Soviet Union. Powers himself later confirmed this in a book. Powers later died when his helicopter crashed.

    Two days earlier, JFK had also been murdered in Texas, clearing the way for LBJ to become president.

    August 1964 - LBJ stages the "Gulf of Tonkin" incident to justify all-out U.S. involvement in the Vietnam War.

    June 1967 - LBJ and McNamara are kept informed in real time as the U.S. intelligence vessel USS Liberty is attacked and sunk by a combined air/sea attack. U.S. aircraft are scrambled but are recalled on personal orders from McNamara, almost certainly at LBJ's instructions.

    The U.S. military command was throughout following the USS Liberty incident in real time through radar, radio, visual surveillance and intelligence sources in Israel and Egypt.

    January 1968 - Still not satisfied in his blood lust, LBJ stages yet another incident sacrificing a U.S. intelligence vessel, the USS Pueblo. This time, the aim is to provoke yet another confrontation with North Korea in the middle of the Vietnam war.

    CONCLUSION: Johnson wanted war, the more the better. War presents great opportunities for profiteering, and just as importantly, allows an administration to push through policies that would never be tolerated in peacetime.

    Fellow Democrats Woodrow Wilson (WW I), FDR (WW II) and Harry Truman (Korea) had shown how it's done.

    Hasbara. Cleverer than usual. Probably worth a bonus from Mossad. But still just Hasbara attempting to muddy the waters and draw attention away from the true villains.

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    • Replies: @Eagle Eye

    Hasbara. Cleverer than usual. Probably worth a bonus from Mossad.
     
    Almost right. Actually, we all report to Major Utsli Gutsli of the Aman (military intelligence). :)
    , @iffen
    Probably worth a bonus from Mossad.

    This is just too sad, you anti-Semites can't even get your basics correct.

    Jews don't pay bonuses!

  62. @Eagle Eye

    Benjamin Franklin, a WASP’s WASP, purportedly had this to say:
     
    The entire quoted passage is bunk as will be obvious to anyone who has ACTUALLY read political documents from the 18th and 19th century. Real Americans are familiar, for instance, with the Federalist Letters, and with some private correspondence both during the 18th century Revolutionary War and the 19th century Civil War.

    In the quoted passage, the reference to "Palestine" is anachronistic - the area was a non-descript Ottoman territory during Franklin's life, part of the Beirut Villayet.

    Equally, the word "vampire" is a blatant anachronism. The whole vampire craze only started in the 19th century.

    The whole focus on Jews is also bizarre - there were very few Jews in the American colonies during Franklin's lifetime.

    Lastly, the diction of the quoted passage is fake 19th century written in the 20th century. Ben Franklin died in 1790.

    Styles change. Nobody would mistake a Hank Williams song for a 1980s hit. The quoted passage sounds completely "off" in the same way, only more so.

    quoted passage is bunk

    perhaps

    I did sort of think the reference to vampires sounded gauche for someone like Franklin

    but then in a way, just like the Protocols, it does seem to strike a resonant cord, eh?

    they have depressed the moral level and lowered the degree of commercial honesty. They have remained apart and unassimilated; … they attempt to strangle the nation financially

    they will stream into this country in such numbers that they will rule and destroy us and change our form of Government for which we Americans shed our blood and sacrificed our life, property and personal freedom.

    our children will be working in the field to feed Jews while they remain in the counting houses, gleefully rubbing their hands.

    I mean, isn’t Robert Rubin and Goldman Sach$ Inc. looting this nation blind?

    even if he didn’t say it, it was nonetheless prescient, no?

    for the record I don’t blame the Jews for doing anything that the venal, cowardly WASPs didn’t help them do. I just suspect that WASPs in general are not so much enamored of the Jews, as afraid of them. It’s isn’t Jewish treachery that is so unspeakably vile- as in the attack on the USS Liberty, but WASP cowardice and treason and sycophantic groveling, that’s so repulsive. I don’t blame the treacherous IDF as much as I blame the American government / military for countenancing the murder of their own, by a nation that receives untold billion$ of dollars in tribute
    Jared Kushner is not a cuck when he agitates for all things Zion, but rather it’s the step-n-fetch goyim congress that reek of pusillanimous pandering.

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    • Replies: @iffen
    it does seem to strike a resonant cord, eh?

    Only if you are tone deaf.
    , @Anon
    even if he didn’t say it, it was nonetheless prescient, no?

    It's always a good idea to engage the brain (if you have one) before you open your mouth. Stupidest sentence in a post filled with nonsense. But then what can we expect from a melodramatic idiot. Try using words you actually understand.

  63. @n230099
    Someone sure has a bug-up-their-butt about this. "War" is always a mess. Deal with it...we used to throw VC out the huey doors till the last one gave up what we wanted to hear. Now we buy our shirts and shoes from there. The time spent re-living the "Liberty" is time you will "never get back".

    Hasbara. They must be paying by the post instead of the word to get the USS Liberty scandal once again out of the public eye.

    Read More
  64. @nsa
    The vile Izzies and the even more vile Saud goat herders continue to bitch slap, and occasionally pimp stick, their fat stupid American whore. Venture a guess either could knock down skyscrapers in an American metropolis in broad daylight on national TV and get away with it.......

    The zionists could do it and did it; the zaudis could not. at best they furnished the patsies.

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  65. @Rurik

    quoted passage is bunk
     
    perhaps

    I did sort of think the reference to vampires sounded gauche for someone like Franklin

    but then in a way, just like the Protocols, it does seem to strike a resonant cord, eh?


    they have depressed the moral level and lowered the degree of commercial honesty. They have remained apart and unassimilated; ... they attempt to strangle the nation financially
     

    they will stream into this country in such numbers that they will rule and destroy us and change our form of Government for which we Americans shed our blood and sacrificed our life, property and personal freedom.
     

    our children will be working in the field to feed Jews while they remain in the counting houses, gleefully rubbing their hands.
     
    I mean, isn't Robert Rubin and Goldman Sach$ Inc. looting this nation blind?

    even if he didn't say it, it was nonetheless prescient, no?

    for the record I don't blame the Jews for doing anything that the venal, cowardly WASPs didn't help them do. I just suspect that WASPs in general are not so much enamored of the Jews, as afraid of them. It's isn't Jewish treachery that is so unspeakably vile- as in the attack on the USS Liberty, but WASP cowardice and treason and sycophantic groveling, that's so repulsive. I don't blame the treacherous IDF as much as I blame the American government / military for countenancing the murder of their own, by a nation that receives untold billion$ of dollars in tribute
    Jared Kushner is not a cuck when he agitates for all things Zion, but rather it's the step-n-fetch goyim congress that reek of pusillanimous pandering.

    it does seem to strike a resonant cord, eh?

    Only if you are tone deaf.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anon
    Could be he is talking about the 'cord' he puts around his own neck when smoking dope. It resonates with his brain waves. The cord, not the chord.
  66. How did the Zionist enterprise get away with the USS Liberty attack? How did they get away with the burning of the USIS library in Alexandria? And how did their supporters in the media (Ex. Judith Miller, Michael Gordon, etc.) and gov’t (Perle, Wolfowitz, Feith, etc.) escape entirely free of blame for ginning up a bunch of bogus info on Saddam’s WMD? And now these folks are doing their best to get Uncle Sam to destroy the Assad gov’t and take on the Iranians while risking war with Russia.

    If you have enough money (Edelson, Saban) to buy Congress and enough control of the MSM, it doesn’t matter whether you tell the truth or not. The Israelis could bomb Ceder Rapids, Iowa and half of Congress and most of the MSM would find reasons to justify the attack.

    The pen maybe mightier than the sword but the dollar is stronger than both.

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  67. @n230099
    Someone sure has a bug-up-their-butt about this. "War" is always a mess. Deal with it...we used to throw VC out the huey doors till the last one gave up what we wanted to hear. Now we buy our shirts and shoes from there. The time spent re-living the "Liberty" is time you will "never get back".

    Deal with it

    yea, OK

    as you say “War” is always a mess

    https://furtherglory.files.wordpress.com/2015/09/majdanek-ovens.jpg

    deal with it and stop your crybaby whining already

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  68. Anon says:     Show CommentNext New Comment
    @Rurik

    quoted passage is bunk
     
    perhaps

    I did sort of think the reference to vampires sounded gauche for someone like Franklin

    but then in a way, just like the Protocols, it does seem to strike a resonant cord, eh?


    they have depressed the moral level and lowered the degree of commercial honesty. They have remained apart and unassimilated; ... they attempt to strangle the nation financially
     

    they will stream into this country in such numbers that they will rule and destroy us and change our form of Government for which we Americans shed our blood and sacrificed our life, property and personal freedom.
     

    our children will be working in the field to feed Jews while they remain in the counting houses, gleefully rubbing their hands.
     
    I mean, isn't Robert Rubin and Goldman Sach$ Inc. looting this nation blind?

    even if he didn't say it, it was nonetheless prescient, no?

    for the record I don't blame the Jews for doing anything that the venal, cowardly WASPs didn't help them do. I just suspect that WASPs in general are not so much enamored of the Jews, as afraid of them. It's isn't Jewish treachery that is so unspeakably vile- as in the attack on the USS Liberty, but WASP cowardice and treason and sycophantic groveling, that's so repulsive. I don't blame the treacherous IDF as much as I blame the American government / military for countenancing the murder of their own, by a nation that receives untold billion$ of dollars in tribute
    Jared Kushner is not a cuck when he agitates for all things Zion, but rather it's the step-n-fetch goyim congress that reek of pusillanimous pandering.

    even if he didn’t say it, it was nonetheless prescient, no?

    It’s always a good idea to engage the brain (if you have one) before you open your mouth. Stupidest sentence in a post filled with nonsense. But then what can we expect from a melodramatic idiot. Try using words you actually understand.

    Read More
  69. @SolontoCroesus
    yes yes indeed, it was all a tragic mistake.

    we know this because once the mistake was recognized (and the Israeli pilots had changed out of their orgasm-soaked panties), Israel rushed to aid the survivors of the Liberty. Riiiight.

    ---

    Among the dozen-and-a-half stupid and mendacious things Finkelstein says in the second part of the interview with the painfully p-a-t-i-e-n-t Aaron Mate (make that, Mat - ay, kinda like Benjamin Ni-tay / Netanyahu/Milikovsky) is that "Israel became an asset to USA." http://www.unz.com/pgiraldi/remembering-the-u-s-s-liberty-2/#comment-1896678

    He got it ass backward: LBJ was an asset of the Israelis


    (see Jeff Gates's explication of how the "transgenerational criminal syndicate" aka zionists use assets https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MlbN2GEYW9w&t=48s @5 min:
    "An Asset is Someone who has been profiled in sufficient depth, that if you put them in a time, place and circumstance you know within an acceptable range of probabilities that they will perform consistent with their personality profile."
     
    What's 'er name Krim was in the White House to ensure that LBJ stayed on script; one imagines she had in her overnight bag photos of Jackie's bloody pink suit, in the event LBJ was tempted to stray.

    Regarding Maté combined with the gush- rush of three aging Jewish scribblers to "set the record straight" -- I'm not buying. English Outsider, A commenter on Pat Lang's blog, analyzed a New York Times article that purported to "fairly" report on the situation in Aleppo. English Outsider, who appears to be a PR professional, argued that the NYTimes piece was a "narrative adjustment exercise" --

    "That's a polite way of saying that the press start out by giving us one story but later, when it becomes apparent that the story they were selling is nonsense, they have to try to move to the new story without us noticing the change. . . . you don't have to be an expert to see that that NYT piece cited isn't honest journalism."

    And you don't have to be an aromachologist to detect the bullshit in Finkelstein's tall tales in the second Maté interview.

    As for Maté, he deserves an Emmy for his semi-penitent demeanor in the Finkelstein interviews. He's had plenty of practice, having done reporting for Democracy Now and for The Intercept. MoonofAlabama posted this important take-down of the Intercept -- Do Not Trust The Intercept or How To Burn A Source.

    Nor is mcohen's claim that Finkelstein is Mossad (#32) persuasive: In Der Judenstaat, Theodor Herzl complained/warned:

    "We continue to produce an abundance of mediocre intellects who find no outlet, and this endangers our social position as much as does our increasing wealth. Educated Jews without means are now rapidly becoming Socialists. Hence we are certain to suffer very severely in the struggle between classes, because we stand in the most exposed position in the camps of both Socialists and capitalists. "

    This describes NF to a T, and also serves to explain the proliferation of think-tanks, set up to provide a paycheck for that legion of over-credentialed under-aware faux-intellects seeking relevance -- and a pension.

    I think that in the case of Finkelstein, it has to do with the fact that though he tells some truths and has done some good research re Palestine, ultimately, he is a Jewish gatekeeper.
    Rarely if ever do we see Finkelstein discussing the influence of zionist lobbies distorting ZUS foreign policy and the zionist’s pervasive influence in media, finance, politics, etc.
    He sort of follows Chomsky, a big Jew gatekeeper.
    There is a pattern I think, if the Jews cannot exercise censorship over certain topics they don’t want people talking about, they try to control discourse in other ways, so they can obfuscate & misdirect, they are very good at infiltration too.
    Think Chomsky with his BS about wars for oil and he is the one who’s been pushing the notion Israel is some sort of M.E asset for ZUSA, which is pure nonsense.
    Finkelstein seems to be just parroting Chomsky in this regard.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Rurik

    He sort of follows Chomsky, a big Jew gatekeeper.
     
    yep

    If you want to know who is a genuinely patriotic Jewish American who puts integrity before Israel, then just find the Jews that are willing to tell the truth about the USS Liberty (as Mr Unz is with this website) or 9/11 - Alan Sabrosky

    if they're not, then they're likely gatekeepers, as you insightfully point out
  70. @Eagle Eye

    Benjamin Franklin, a WASP’s WASP, purportedly had this to say:
     
    The entire quoted passage is bunk as will be obvious to anyone who has ACTUALLY read political documents from the 18th and 19th century. Real Americans are familiar, for instance, with the Federalist Letters, and with some private correspondence both during the 18th century Revolutionary War and the 19th century Civil War.

    In the quoted passage, the reference to "Palestine" is anachronistic - the area was a non-descript Ottoman territory during Franklin's life, part of the Beirut Villayet.

    Equally, the word "vampire" is a blatant anachronism. The whole vampire craze only started in the 19th century.

    The whole focus on Jews is also bizarre - there were very few Jews in the American colonies during Franklin's lifetime.

    Lastly, the diction of the quoted passage is fake 19th century written in the 20th century. Ben Franklin died in 1790.

    Styles change. Nobody would mistake a Hank Williams song for a 1980s hit. The quoted passage sounds completely "off" in the same way, only more so.

    Perhaps Franklin never said about the Jews what he is purported to have said. Shall we then conclude that the passage is art imitating life?

    Read More
  71. Anon says:     Show CommentNext New Comment
    @iffen
    it does seem to strike a resonant cord, eh?

    Only if you are tone deaf.

    Could be he is talking about the ‘cord’ he puts around his own neck when smoking dope. It resonates with his brain waves. The cord, not the chord.

    Read More
  72. So, what about 9-11, Mr. Giraldi?

    Are you guys going to allow it to become another USS Liberty?

    The official story is clearly bunk & zionist fingerprints are all over it.

    Regarding the matter of whether or not bin Laden and ‘al-Qaeda’ were even capable of orchestrating the 9-11 Attacks, author and professor David Ray Griffin, wrote:

    For prosecutors to prove that defendants committed a crime, they must show that they had the ability (as well as the motive and opportunity) to do so.
    But several political and military leaders from other countries have stated that bin Laden and al-Qaeda simply could not have carried out the attacks.
    General Leonid Ivashov, who in 2001 was the chief of staff for the Russian armed forces, wrote:

    “Only secret services and their current chiefs—or those retired but still having influence inside the state organizations—have the ability to plan, organize and conduct an operation of such magnitude…Osama bin Laden and “Al Qaeda” cannot be the organizers nor the performers of the September 11 attacks. They do not have the necessary organization, resources or leaders.”

    Similar statements have been made by Andreas von Bülow, the former state secretary of West Germany’s ministry of defense, by General Mirza Aslam Beg, former chief of staff of Pakistan’s army, and even General Musharraf, the president of Pakistan until recently.[109]

    This same point was also made by veteran CIA agent Milt Bearden. Speaking disparagingly of “the myth of Osama bin Laden” on CBS News the day after 9/11, Bearden said: “I was there [in Afghanistan] at the same time bin Laden was there. He was not the great warrior.” With regard to the widespread view that bin Laden was behind the attacks, he said: “This was a tremendously sophisticated operation against the United States—more sophisticated than anybody would have ascribed to Osama bin Laden.” Pointing out that a group capable of such a sophisticated attack would have had a way to cover their tracks, he added: “This group who was responsible for that, if they didn’t have an Osama bin Laden out there, they’d invent one, because he’s a terrific diversion.”[110]

    Read More
    • Replies: @jilles dykstra
    Sept 11 sophisticated ?
    It was a mess.
    The explosives in the Twin Towers went off too quickly after one another.
    Too much thermite was used, three weeks after sept 11 there still was molten iron in the basements.
    The 47 stories building was blown up with explosives on the ground floor.
    The four 'hijacked' planes could not be used.
    The first plane flying into a tower had a bubble under the plane that passenger planes do not have.
    The second plane had no windows.
    No plane crashed in Pennsylvania, just a rocket was fired from a jet.
    No passenger plane flew into the Pentagon, probably a remote controlled fighter with a missile underneath.
    The Sept 11 miracle was that despite the mess in general the public could be fooled.
    The public even believed that NORAD could not see planes with transponders switched off, did not see that Cheney 'happened' to be there to destroy the tapes on which the flights of the four 'hijacked' planes were recorded, and the other flights: the planes that did fly into the towers, the jet over Pennsylvania, and the jet that flew into the Pentagon.
    Where these planes came from, probably some secret CIA base.
    , @Rurik

    So, what about 9-11, Mr. Giraldi?

    Are you guys going to allow it to become another USS Liberty?
     
    very powerful LK

    very salient

    it is of course the question of the century, literally
    , @Art
    So, what about 9-11, Mr. Giraldi?

    Are you guys going to allow it to become another USS Liberty?


    Scratch 9/11 and it bleeds Jew!
    , @Incitatus

    “Are you guys going to allow it [9/11] to become another USS Liberty?”
    “I wonder; the USS Liberty was attacked many years before I was even born…”
    “Where these planes came from, probably some secret CIA base.”

     
    Ah, 9/11. The catnip of conspirator theorists. Never mind the USS Liberty. Meow!

    L.K, jilles, Rurik,

    You guys missed your own 9/11 boat. The best theory (my favorite):

    “Anyone who views the contemporaneous footage can see for himself that there were no “collapses” of skyscrapers on 9/11. WTC 1 and 2 did not “collapse”, nor were they demolished in a conventional manner. They were disintegrated, with most of their steel and concrete cores being converted to fine dust. The destruction of WTC 1 and 2 (not to mention the core of WTC6) was not due to jet fuel, airliner impacts, or conventional demolition materials. The Twin Towers were almost certainly brought down by small – or perhaps micro – nuclear weapons. No other scenario is even possible, given that the events had all the signatures of nuclear detonations...”
    -Mulegino1 #356 27oct16
    http://www.unz.com/article/911-truth/#new_comments
     
    Please confer. Can you get your act together? How’s a reader to know who to blame?

    Have any of you - in reality, not on a computer screen - actually demolished or built a building? Dumb question.

    Tell us the truth. Do you speak daily with Captain James Kirk and First Officer Spock? What do they tell you? 9/11 was a conspiracy?

    Pray to the Machine to ensure the continuity of electrical power for your illusions (see E. M. Forester ‘The Machine Stops’).

    In future please remember Mulegino1’s “small – or perhaps micro – nuclear weapons”. No reason to reinvent your 9/11 wheel.

    Mulegino1 - are you out there? Salute!

    ps - don’t worry, I’m a troll (i.e. burdened with real world experience, old enough to remember USS Liberty first hand).
  73. @Jon Halpenny
    As far as I know, the Israelis used mostly French equipment in the 1967 war.

    They also had British centurion tanks.

    American tanks and artillery.french jets.chinese toe jammers.

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  74. I wonder; the USS Liberty was attacked many years before I was even born…

    2017 now, and the Israeli attack remains largely unknown to zamericans… quite amazing and a testament to something hardly ever discussed; Jewish power… the Zionist Power Configuration…

    Before the USS Liberty, there was the Lavon Affair… probably even less zamericans heard of that one:

    Eight years after the bombing of the King David Hotel, the State of Israel carried out a series of false-flag terror bombings against U.S. and British libraries, theatres, and other government institutions in Egypt in a terror campaign designed to be blamed on Egyptian groups. This Israeli terror campaign of July 1954 is often referred to as the “Lavon Affair” after Pinhas Lavon, the Israeli defense minister at the time.

    In 2001, we had 9-11, instantly, and without any real investigation or proof, conveniently blamed on Bin Laden and Al-Qaeda. The new Pearl Harbor has zionist fingerprints all over it.
    The “investigation” was a complete farce, 100% a cover-up. Evidence quickly destroyed, lies planted by the zio controlled media framing “muslim terrorism”, and then the totally fraudulent and ongoing war on “Terror” was launched.

    Given that after so many decades there is still no clarity re the treacherous israeli attack on the USS Liberty and little talk of the Lavon ‘affair’, the zionist rats are probably confident 9-11 will be a repeat of previous zionist ops against ZUSA, their responsibility never revealed.

    People should take some time to read investigative journalist and author, C. Bollyn’s;
    “Solving 9-11: The Deception that Changed the World”:
    http://bollyn.com/solving-9-11-the-book

    Chapter III – America the Target: 9-11 and Israel’s History of False Flag Terrorism
    http://bollyn.com/solving-9-11-the-book#article_11279

    The Israeli Origin of 9/11 and the War on Terror
    May 8, 2017
    http://bollyn.com/#article_15904

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  75. @Jus' Sayin'...
    Hasbara. Cleverer than usual. Probably worth a bonus from Mossad. But still just Hasbara attempting to muddy the waters and draw attention away from the true villains.

    Hasbara. Cleverer than usual. Probably worth a bonus from Mossad.

    Almost right. Actually, we all report to Major Utsli Gutsli of the Aman (military intelligence). :)

    Read More
  76. @L.K
    I think that in the case of Finkelstein, it has to do with the fact that though he tells some truths and has done some good research re Palestine, ultimately, he is a Jewish gatekeeper.
    Rarely if ever do we see Finkelstein discussing the influence of zionist lobbies distorting ZUS foreign policy and the zionist's pervasive influence in media, finance, politics, etc.
    He sort of follows Chomsky, a big Jew gatekeeper.
    There is a pattern I think, if the Jews cannot exercise censorship over certain topics they don't want people talking about, they try to control discourse in other ways, so they can obfuscate & misdirect, they are very good at infiltration too.
    Think Chomsky with his BS about wars for oil and he is the one who's been pushing the notion Israel is some sort of M.E asset for ZUSA, which is pure nonsense.
    Finkelstein seems to be just parroting Chomsky in this regard.

    He sort of follows Chomsky, a big Jew gatekeeper.

    yep

    If you want to know who is a genuinely patriotic Jewish American who puts integrity before Israel, then just find the Jews that are willing to tell the truth about the USS Liberty (as Mr Unz is with this website) or 9/11 – Alan Sabrosky

    if they’re not, then they’re likely gatekeepers, as you insightfully point out

    Read More
    • Replies: @jilles dykstra
    As far as I know just Finkelstein and Pappe acknowledge how the zionist army in 1948 ethnically cleansed Palestine.
    Not Chomsky.
  77. @Z-man
    The turn came after '67 when America became Israel complete, 100% bitch. In the '73 war the Egyptians and Syrians were doing ok against the Zionists, so much so that they begged Washington for more heavy resupplies witch turned their fortunes and then let to a cease fire. Nixon fucked up, he should have let them lose more before intervening to get a cease fire!

    ” Nixon fucked up, he should have let them lose more before intervening to get a cease fire!”

    Well Israel was about to nuke the Arabs in that war (they already had nukes in 1967 but weren’t needed as it turned out). If the US didn’t send those shipments of arms to cover their losses and had the war continue to go badly for Israel then they would have dropped the Bomb.

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  78. @L.K
    So, what about 9-11, Mr. Giraldi?

    Are you guys going to allow it to become another USS Liberty?

    The official story is clearly bunk & zionist fingerprints are all over it.

    Regarding the matter of whether or not bin Laden and ‘al-Qaeda’ were even capable of orchestrating the 9-11 Attacks, author and professor David Ray Griffin, wrote:


    For prosecutors to prove that defendants committed a crime, they must show that they had the ability (as well as the motive and opportunity) to do so.
    But several political and military leaders from other countries have stated that bin Laden and al-Qaeda simply could not have carried out the attacks.
    General Leonid Ivashov, who in 2001 was the chief of staff for the Russian armed forces, wrote:

    “Only secret services and their current chiefs—or those retired but still having influence inside the state organizations—have the ability to plan, organize and conduct an operation of such magnitude...Osama bin Laden and “Al Qaeda” cannot be the organizers nor the performers of the September 11 attacks. They do not have the necessary organization, resources or leaders.”
    ...
    Similar statements have been made by Andreas von Bülow, the former state secretary of West Germany’s ministry of defense, by General Mirza Aslam Beg, former chief of staff of Pakistan’s army, and even General Musharraf, the president of Pakistan until recently.[109]

    This same point was also made by veteran CIA agent Milt Bearden. Speaking disparagingly of “the myth of Osama bin Laden” on CBS News the day after 9/11, Bearden said: “I was there [in Afghanistan] at the same time bin Laden was there. He was not the great warrior.” With regard to the widespread view that bin Laden was behind the attacks, he said: “This was a tremendously sophisticated operation against the United States—more sophisticated than anybody would have ascribed to Osama bin Laden.” Pointing out that a group capable of such a sophisticated attack would have had a way to cover their tracks, he added: “This group who was responsible for that, if they didn’t have an Osama bin Laden out there, they’d invent one, because he’s a terrific diversion.”[110]


     

    Sept 11 sophisticated ?
    It was a mess.
    The explosives in the Twin Towers went off too quickly after one another.
    Too much thermite was used, three weeks after sept 11 there still was molten iron in the basements.
    The 47 stories building was blown up with explosives on the ground floor.
    The four ‘hijacked’ planes could not be used.
    The first plane flying into a tower had a bubble under the plane that passenger planes do not have.
    The second plane had no windows.
    No plane crashed in Pennsylvania, just a rocket was fired from a jet.
    No passenger plane flew into the Pentagon, probably a remote controlled fighter with a missile underneath.
    The Sept 11 miracle was that despite the mess in general the public could be fooled.
    The public even believed that NORAD could not see planes with transponders switched off, did not see that Cheney ‘happened’ to be there to destroy the tapes on which the flights of the four ‘hijacked’ planes were recorded, and the other flights: the planes that did fly into the towers, the jet over Pennsylvania, and the jet that flew into the Pentagon.
    Where these planes came from, probably some secret CIA base.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
    As you make such confident assertions about matters that depend on your knowing and having good evidence for critical facts I take the opportunity of putting to you a group of related questions that appear to need answering.

    My impression is that conspiracy theories, true or false, didn't start to arise from the facts available after 9/11 but on nitpicking the words of the 9/11 commission. If there were people who quickly saw an inside job or something equally nefarious in the days and weeks after the event they surely would have done some evidence gathering. Steel might be sold to China but that is irrelevant to the possibility of sampling of the debris to find thermite, or whatever else might be incriminating.

    So, did people voice cogent theories of wrongdoing other than that of the 19 Muslims - based perhaps on doubting that it really was aircraft that caused the damage or just a feeling about the way the towers fell, or because, as people much later commented, the BBC seemed to have the timing of events wrong wrt WTC7? If they did, why isn't there evidence collected at the time to back up their suspicions? (Or did they collect it and find that it didn't support their suspicions?). Or is it just the case that the 9/11 commission was so unconvincing to many people that it actually bred the conspiracy theories?
  79. @Jus' Sayin'...
    Hasbara. Cleverer than usual. Probably worth a bonus from Mossad. But still just Hasbara attempting to muddy the waters and draw attention away from the true villains.

    Probably worth a bonus from Mossad.

    This is just too sad, you anti-Semites can’t even get your basics correct.

    Jews don’t pay bonuses!

    Read More
  80. @ Rurik,

    Be wary of the ‘anon’ or ‘anonymous’ posters. I think Ron Unz had a thread on posting practices and a few admonitions to that effect but I don’t recall if their was any established protocol.

    If being an ‘anonymous’ poster is properly played it can be an effective troll maneuver in that it could end up getting a serious poster playing ‘whack a mole’ and getting pissed off when the same drive by shooter may have been someone who was just bested in a scholarly discussion of facts while having an established (Unz,com) identity.

    Unless I am not aware of some rules having been put in place that is how I see a potential menace developing. Of course in an open forum there are always 1001 ways to subvert 1000 rules but still I think that if someone doesn’t establish an identity and stick to his/her guns- what is the point in having discussions?

    Cheers-

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    • Agree: utu, bluedog
    • Replies: @Rurik

    Be wary of the ‘anon’ or ‘anonymous’ posters.
     
    there's a reason they stay anonymous Timur

    they're cowards and know better that to take on their betters using a specific sobriquet

    they're like sniveling omega hyenas who whimper from a safe distance in frustration

    somehow they always remind me of Gollum

    http://i.onionstatic.com/avclub/5643/82/16x9/960.jpg

    cowardly, treacherous, covetous of The Lie, but far too craven to ever even so much as create an identity- that will be humiliated off the stage and see them slink even more bitterly into their bile

    Cheers

    , @Wizard of Oz
    I have come across at most 8 repeat commenters on UR whose contributions might be classed as part of "scholarly discussion". Do you disagree?

    As to the anons who don't meet the prima facie descriptions that Mr Unz announced I suggest that some may be hiding embarrassment at not being able to resist responding to the near demented.

  81. @Rurik

    He sort of follows Chomsky, a big Jew gatekeeper.
     
    yep

    If you want to know who is a genuinely patriotic Jewish American who puts integrity before Israel, then just find the Jews that are willing to tell the truth about the USS Liberty (as Mr Unz is with this website) or 9/11 - Alan Sabrosky

    if they're not, then they're likely gatekeepers, as you insightfully point out

    As far as I know just Finkelstein and Pappe acknowledge how the zionist army in 1948 ethnically cleansed Palestine.
    Not Chomsky.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Rurik

    Chomsky.
     
    https://www.democracynow.org/2014/8/8/noam_chomsky_what_israel_is_doing

    he likes being a hero on campuss, so he's mollified his views
  82. Hi PG, we’re “crying crocodile tears”, that’s what the hasbara claim and are assured by our low lives cuck politicians, even prostitutes sometimes wake up to the pimp’s abuse and will do something. We have a museum and a memorial built in our soil to commemorate the hollowfuax that never happened here or doubtfully there. There are hundreds of channels on the idiot box these days, full of all garbage you can think of. On a daily basis there is at least ten shows on different channel that will have something about this hollow-fiction..
    Few years ago I read a book by Richard Burton, written in the 19th century. Part of the book talked about Jews in Europe, mainly eastern. He actually warned of “their practices towards the Magyar and Slavs concerning money lending (usury)” that dispossessed a lot of poor farmers of their property and everything that had been accumulated over generations. He went on to say , if these people can find any excuse or support from authority, they will not hesitate to finish off these “jews”. His prediction came very close at the beginning of last century.
    When USS Liberty was bombed, there was all kinds of excuses (same as the ones we hear to this day, concerning any crime committed by the tribe), but the whore(s) can never go against her pimp master. Have you ever seen any resolution at the United Colonial Nations being voted by U.S. of Israel that condemned actual and real crimes by that “shitty” country?
    If we are not gonna get justice committed against us (9/11 included), you think our slave cuckticians will care what happens to others?
    We are now fully trained (like robots) to serve the master pimp.. The pimp says attack that country, we do it, kill one of fellow prostitute, we do it. Forced slaves never obeyed like this. Quite phenomenal………

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  83. @Timur The Lame
    @ Rurik,

    Be wary of the 'anon' or 'anonymous' posters. I think Ron Unz had a thread on posting practices and a few admonitions to that effect but I don't recall if their was any established protocol.

    If being an 'anonymous' poster is properly played it can be an effective troll maneuver in that it could end up getting a serious poster playing 'whack a mole' and getting pissed off when the same drive by shooter may have been someone who was just bested in a scholarly discussion of facts while having an established (Unz,com) identity.

    Unless I am not aware of some rules having been put in place that is how I see a potential menace developing. Of course in an open forum there are always 1001 ways to subvert 1000 rules but still I think that if someone doesn't establish an identity and stick to his/her guns- what is the point in having discussions?

    Cheers-

    Be wary of the ‘anon’ or ‘anonymous’ posters.

    there’s a reason they stay anonymous Timur

    they’re cowards and know better that to take on their betters using a specific sobriquet

    they’re like sniveling omega hyenas who whimper from a safe distance in frustration

    somehow they always remind me of Gollum

    http://i.onionstatic.com/avclub/5643/82/16×9/960.jpg

    cowardly, treacherous, covetous of The Lie, but far too craven to ever even so much as create an identity- that will be humiliated off the stage and see them slink even more bitterly into their bile

    Cheers

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  84. @Quartermaster
    The Liberty incident was not covered up. It was investigated and the problem was that 6th Fleet HQ had informed the Israelis we did not have any ships in the region. Flying a false flag is not illegal under international law, as long as the ship is not engaged in hostilities.

    Israel admitted their mistake and paid reparations. Giraldi is simply promulgating a conspiracy theory.

    … the problem was that 6th Fleet HQ had informed the Israelis we did not have any ships in the region.
    Israel admitted their mistake and paid reparations.

    Err, if they were induced to make a mistake because of false information from the 6th fleet, why on earth would they ever pay any reparations?

    Do me a favor, when you make up crap like this the next time, have your mom check the logic before you publish the comment.

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  85. @L.K
    So, what about 9-11, Mr. Giraldi?

    Are you guys going to allow it to become another USS Liberty?

    The official story is clearly bunk & zionist fingerprints are all over it.

    Regarding the matter of whether or not bin Laden and ‘al-Qaeda’ were even capable of orchestrating the 9-11 Attacks, author and professor David Ray Griffin, wrote:


    For prosecutors to prove that defendants committed a crime, they must show that they had the ability (as well as the motive and opportunity) to do so.
    But several political and military leaders from other countries have stated that bin Laden and al-Qaeda simply could not have carried out the attacks.
    General Leonid Ivashov, who in 2001 was the chief of staff for the Russian armed forces, wrote:

    “Only secret services and their current chiefs—or those retired but still having influence inside the state organizations—have the ability to plan, organize and conduct an operation of such magnitude...Osama bin Laden and “Al Qaeda” cannot be the organizers nor the performers of the September 11 attacks. They do not have the necessary organization, resources or leaders.”
    ...
    Similar statements have been made by Andreas von Bülow, the former state secretary of West Germany’s ministry of defense, by General Mirza Aslam Beg, former chief of staff of Pakistan’s army, and even General Musharraf, the president of Pakistan until recently.[109]

    This same point was also made by veteran CIA agent Milt Bearden. Speaking disparagingly of “the myth of Osama bin Laden” on CBS News the day after 9/11, Bearden said: “I was there [in Afghanistan] at the same time bin Laden was there. He was not the great warrior.” With regard to the widespread view that bin Laden was behind the attacks, he said: “This was a tremendously sophisticated operation against the United States—more sophisticated than anybody would have ascribed to Osama bin Laden.” Pointing out that a group capable of such a sophisticated attack would have had a way to cover their tracks, he added: “This group who was responsible for that, if they didn’t have an Osama bin Laden out there, they’d invent one, because he’s a terrific diversion.”[110]


     

    So, what about 9-11, Mr. Giraldi?

    Are you guys going to allow it to become another USS Liberty?

    very powerful LK

    very salient

    it is of course the question of the century, literally

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  86. @Anonymous
    Jesus Fucking Christ.

    I get it. It was bad.

    But this Giraldi guy might once in a while also turn his eye to other players in the greater game.

    Like Russia, probably having shot down the Polish Leadership in Smolensk.

    Like the 1999 Apartment Bombings having been a Russian False Flag.

    I get it. It was bad.

    But this Giraldi guy might once in a while also turn his eye to other players in the greater game.

    Like Russia, probably having shot down the Polish Leadership in Smolensk.

    Like the 1999 Apartment Bombings having been a Russian False Flag.

    Oh yes – hasbara 101 – when all else fails – point out that in the last ten thousand years of human history, someone else did something worse than the Jew.

    In the evil doings realm – the Jew is always proudly second from the bottom.

    In the idealistic Christian world, second from the top is OK.

    Peace — Art

    p.s. Of course Anonymous’ comment is implicit admission of guilt.

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  87. @L.K
    So, what about 9-11, Mr. Giraldi?

    Are you guys going to allow it to become another USS Liberty?

    The official story is clearly bunk & zionist fingerprints are all over it.

    Regarding the matter of whether or not bin Laden and ‘al-Qaeda’ were even capable of orchestrating the 9-11 Attacks, author and professor David Ray Griffin, wrote:


    For prosecutors to prove that defendants committed a crime, they must show that they had the ability (as well as the motive and opportunity) to do so.
    But several political and military leaders from other countries have stated that bin Laden and al-Qaeda simply could not have carried out the attacks.
    General Leonid Ivashov, who in 2001 was the chief of staff for the Russian armed forces, wrote:

    “Only secret services and their current chiefs—or those retired but still having influence inside the state organizations—have the ability to plan, organize and conduct an operation of such magnitude...Osama bin Laden and “Al Qaeda” cannot be the organizers nor the performers of the September 11 attacks. They do not have the necessary organization, resources or leaders.”
    ...
    Similar statements have been made by Andreas von Bülow, the former state secretary of West Germany’s ministry of defense, by General Mirza Aslam Beg, former chief of staff of Pakistan’s army, and even General Musharraf, the president of Pakistan until recently.[109]

    This same point was also made by veteran CIA agent Milt Bearden. Speaking disparagingly of “the myth of Osama bin Laden” on CBS News the day after 9/11, Bearden said: “I was there [in Afghanistan] at the same time bin Laden was there. He was not the great warrior.” With regard to the widespread view that bin Laden was behind the attacks, he said: “This was a tremendously sophisticated operation against the United States—more sophisticated than anybody would have ascribed to Osama bin Laden.” Pointing out that a group capable of such a sophisticated attack would have had a way to cover their tracks, he added: “This group who was responsible for that, if they didn’t have an Osama bin Laden out there, they’d invent one, because he’s a terrific diversion.”[110]


     

    So, what about 9-11, Mr. Giraldi?

    Are you guys going to allow it to become another USS Liberty?

    Scratch 9/11 and it bleeds Jew!

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    • Replies: @mcohen
    9/11 was a false flag operatiom by the russians to weaken the usa position in the middle east which it has.donald trump who is anti russian is changing that.
    All those who accuse israel are commie bum boys running errands for putin.
  88. A hastily convened and conducted court of inquiry headed by Admiral John McCain acted under orders from Washington to declare the attack a case of mistaken identity.

    … … … …

    Following in his father’s footsteps, Senator John McCain of Arizona has used his position on the Senate Armed Services Committee to effectively block any reconvening of a board of inquiry to reexamine the evidence.

    Oh my – more proof of HBD genetic bad seed syndrome. Like father like son.

    Maybe the senator is blameless for his evil traitorous activities favoring Israel.

    NOT!

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  89. @Mr. Anon
    This site is dedicated to covering things that others - the MSM in particular - do not. So why is it strange for Mr. Giraldi to bring some attention to the Liberty incident, given that it receives little attention elsewhere.

    By the way, why has there never even been a movie made about the U.S.S. Liberty? Movies have been made about other cold-war-era incidents at sea: The U.S.S. Pueblo incident and the defection of Simas Kudirka, for instance. So why has there never even been a made-for-TV movie about the U.S.S. Liberty? Even if it was just a mistake, it was a noteworthy one, was it not?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kjOH1XMAwZA

    “USS Liberty: Dead In The Water” (BBC Documentary 2002)

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    • Replies: @Mr. Anon

    “USS Liberty: Dead In The Water” (BBC Documentary 2002)
     
    That's nice and all - a documentary on British TV (which probably almost nobody in America ever saw) - but I would have expected at least a made-for-TV movie on American TV.
  90. @Art
    So, what about 9-11, Mr. Giraldi?

    Are you guys going to allow it to become another USS Liberty?


    Scratch 9/11 and it bleeds Jew!

    9/11 was a false flag operatiom by the russians to weaken the usa position in the middle east which it has.donald trump who is anti russian is changing that.
    All those who accuse israel are commie bum boys running errands for putin.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Talha
    Dude - I am loving your posts - LOOOL!

    Peace.
    , @SolontoCroesus

    All those who accuse israel are commie bum boys running errands for putin.
     
    Jews and Commies -- a match solidly endorsed by Norman Finkelstein.

    Susan Liebman Butler has also placed her heart and her loyalty at the feet of Josef Stalin, just like Finkelstein does.
    "But Stalin killed millions of Ukrainians -- far more people than Hitler killed," someone reminded Liebman-Butler.
    Replied Butler: "Stalin had to do it to preserve his vision, and besides, they were Kulaks."
    (if you're a Kulak -- or a sailor on a US ship -- your death is inconsequential.)
    https://www.c-span.org/video/?190721-1/dear-mr-stalin

    Although -- as hateful as their attitudes are: i.e. Finkelstein endorses "the Jewish attitude: Never Forgive, Never Forget," and allows latent passive-aggression to come to the fore when he "hypothesizes" that Israelis killed Americans on USS Liberty out of their "deep and eternal hatred for the goyim" -- at least he and Liebman-Butler own their psychopathologies.

    Not so Ron and Allis Radosh. They figured out tout de suite which side of the bread was buttered; after immersing themselves in Communism when it was beneficial, they switched sides and ratted out their former fellows.

    What they all have in common that they turned their psychopathologies into a livelihood.

    --------

    By the way: A couple weeks ago the Jewish mayor of Charlottesville supported removing Confederate statues from public places in the Home of Thomas Jefferson.
    But Jefferson's University, University of Virginia in Charlottesville, dedicates a week to memorializing the holocaust, and nearby Richmond, Virginia has a museum to the holocaust.

    Harpy Nikki Haley removed the Confederate flag from public places in South Carolina.
    But South Carolina created a council to study the holocaust, --->

    South Carolina Council on the Holocaust


    “The work that the SC Council on the Holocaust does is so important for our students in South Carolina. Having a chance to discuss and reflect on the past gives students the tools to be better citizens for our future.”

    --Molly Spearman, State Superintendent of Education
     

    How many students in US taxpayer-supported schools are given "the chance to discuss and reflect on" Israel's attack on the Liberty?

    How many US states have memorials to the 34 men who died on the Liberty?

    , @Art
    All those who accuse israel are commie bum boys running errands for putin.

    May I nominate you for hasbara TROLL of the day – excellent work (funny too - big smile).

    Peace --- Art
  91. @jilles dykstra
    As far as I know just Finkelstein and Pappe acknowledge how the zionist army in 1948 ethnically cleansed Palestine.
    Not Chomsky.

    Chomsky.

    https://www.democracynow.org/2014/8/8/noam_chomsky_what_israel_is_doing

    he likes being a hero on campuss, so he’s mollified his views

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  92. @Eagle Eye

    In an ongoing effort to reveal the truth about the attack, the USS Liberty Veterans Association has filed with the Secretary of the Army in the manner prescribed by law a detailed, fully documented Report of War Crimes describing the circumstances of the attack on our ship and evidence that it was a crime under international law.
     
    With all due respect to the heroic sailors and civilian staff of the USS Liberty - they were sacrificed by the U.S. military to justify a war against Egypt. LBJ wanted war FOR HIS OWN PURPOSES, but apparently later pulled back. So much for the idea of LBJ being an Israeli puppet.

    Let's look at a timeline:

    October 1956 - March 1957 Great Britain, France and Israel join to retake control of the Suez Canal. Eisenhower administration takes vigorous steps to force all three to retreat from Egypt.

    November 24, 1963 - Former (?) CIA agent Lee Harvey Oswald is murdered in LBJ's home state of Texas. Oswald had earlier served as radio operator keeping in touch with Gary Powers during Powers' overflights of the Soviet Union. Powers himself later confirmed this in a book. Powers later died when his helicopter crashed.

    Two days earlier, JFK had also been murdered in Texas, clearing the way for LBJ to become president.

    August 1964 - LBJ stages the "Gulf of Tonkin" incident to justify all-out U.S. involvement in the Vietnam War.

    June 1967 - LBJ and McNamara are kept informed in real time as the U.S. intelligence vessel USS Liberty is attacked and sunk by a combined air/sea attack. U.S. aircraft are scrambled but are recalled on personal orders from McNamara, almost certainly at LBJ's instructions.

    The U.S. military command was throughout following the USS Liberty incident in real time through radar, radio, visual surveillance and intelligence sources in Israel and Egypt.

    January 1968 - Still not satisfied in his blood lust, LBJ stages yet another incident sacrificing a U.S. intelligence vessel, the USS Pueblo. This time, the aim is to provoke yet another confrontation with North Korea in the middle of the Vietnam war.

    CONCLUSION: Johnson wanted war, the more the better. War presents great opportunities for profiteering, and just as importantly, allows an administration to push through policies that would never be tolerated in peacetime.

    Fellow Democrats Woodrow Wilson (WW I), FDR (WW II) and Harry Truman (Korea) had shown how it's done.

    Nice try!

    Your beautiful theory doesn’t explain why Israel would ever have gone along with such a plan?
    Johnson: “ok, Moishe, you sink one of my ships and I’ll destroy Egypt for you, yeah, no, I’m not kidding”

    Back to the drawing board!

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  93. @Thirdeye
    Not that effective or brilliant. The fixation on battleship row was sophomoric. According to Admiral Nimitz, taking out the shore support facilities would have had a much greater impact on the US ability to wage war in the Pacific, forcing the US fleet to base its operations out of San Diego. That would have made it virtually impossible to project US power into the western Pacific during the crucial time in which the battles of the Coral Sea, Midway, and Guadalcanal took place.
    The Japanese also had an unrealized opportunity to seize Oahu because the land forces defending it were weak. As it was, most of the damaged ships were salvaged after sitting in the mud and they were facing obsolescence as first line assets with the battleship and carrier building program then underway.

    What if the Japanese hadn’t attacked Pearl Harbor at all, and just pursued their offensives in Southeast Asia?

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    • Replies: @Bill Jones
    The Japanese, of course, were just trying to free the Hawaiian people from the ilegal occupation of their Islands by the theiving Yankees.
  94. @mcohen
    9/11 was a false flag operatiom by the russians to weaken the usa position in the middle east which it has.donald trump who is anti russian is changing that.
    All those who accuse israel are commie bum boys running errands for putin.

    Dude – I am loving your posts – LOOOL!

    Peace.

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  95. @animalogic
    The further I learn about this grotesque, criminal incident the further I strongly suspect two things:
    1. It was a failed false flag; the purpose of which: to incriminate Egypt. The entire plot relied on the total destruction of the Liberty and it's crew: no ship, no crew, no evidence. (The failed false flag hypothesis at least makes some sense of Israeli motives. Against this view: the Israelis failed, which may be interpreted as evidence that complete destruction was NOT the goal. Also, it might be thought how could the Israelis be SO stupid as to think, given the length of time from observation to concluded attack, that they could "get away with it"? But again, no ship, no crew, no evidence. The rest is denial and bullshit.)
    2. Which leads to the 2nd point ( harder to demonstrate ) that the highest level of the US Admin KNEW about this or "a" pending false flag attack by the Israelis. The speed - confidence - with which Macnamara calls off the jets, the well oiled cover up later, all, at least, suggest US foreknowledge. US complicity would also help explain why the Israelis weren't that worried about radio traffic ID'ing their fighters.
    On even the bare facts the Liberty incident represented that even 50 years ago, the US government was in (treasonous ) thrall to a foreign power.

    Yeah, I think both of your points are closer to the real truth than any theory which has been forwarded.

    The theory that they wanted to kill the Egyptian prisoners fails because all they would have had to do was attack the ship once and apologize; the crew would have been busy with rescue efforts for the rest of the day, and they could have gotten back to doing what they do best in peace.

    No, they staked out their victim all day for very good reasons and they would have also had to be absolutely sure that Johnson would let them get away with it.

    The plan was probably for the US to attack Egypt and keep the Soviets out and for them to secure the greater Israel in one fell swoop, then it all got messed up.

    No worries, it’s all happening at a more leisurely pace right now.

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  96. @n230099
    Someone sure has a bug-up-their-butt about this. "War" is always a mess. Deal with it...we used to throw VC out the huey doors till the last one gave up what we wanted to hear. Now we buy our shirts and shoes from there. The time spent re-living the "Liberty" is time you will "never get back".

    ” Deal with it” : LBJ should have dealt with it.

    He should have glassed the shitty little country and the world would be a saner safer more prosperous place today.

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  97. @Dave Pinsen
    What if the Japanese hadn't attacked Pearl Harbor at all, and just pursued their offensives in Southeast Asia?

    The Japanese, of course, were just trying to free the Hawaiian people from the ilegal occupation of their Islands by the theiving Yankees.

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  98. @American Shniper
    Can you imagine the atrocities Israel had our service men and women committing against black and brown people let alone our white brothers and sisters if they can force our government to turn it's back on WHITE service MEN, not white women, WHITE service men?

    The men who made this country what it is was murdered by Israeli's with no consequences nor acknowledgement for over 50 years....WOW! And you want to make blacks your enemy?

    You really don’t get it, do you?

    Let me spell it out to you: Lyndon B. Johnson wanted a war – any war – for fun and profit.

    It is absurd to imagine that the president of the most powerful nation on earth in 1967 would take orders from a barely half-developed country in the Eastern Mediterranean.

    Most likely, LBJ expressly ordered Israel to attack the USS Liberty to give himself an excuse to bomb Cairo. Quite possibly, his orders to bomb Cairo were defied by senior military or civilian leaders afraid of provoking WW III, thus necessitating an impromptu cover-up.

    Put yourself in the shoes of the Israeli leadership in 1967 – why would they risk massively antagonizing the U.S. in the middle of a risky war? The only reasonable explanations are:

    (1) Israel had been ordered by LBJ to sink the USS Liberty (see above). This kind of order would have to have come from LBJ personally, not McNamara, for the Israelis to take on the risk. (Remember the U.S. betrayal of irregular forces at the Bay of Pigs was a recent memory.)

    (2) The USS Liberty itself was a major problem for Israel, e.g. because it was passing key intelligence to Egypt and the Arabs.

    Given the extensive hush-up operations in the U.S. after the fact, (1) seems much more likely. This would also explain why senior U.S. brass went into overdrive concocting bizarre but coordinated stories to deflect attention from their own shameful involvement in the murder of Americans.

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    • Replies: @NoseytheDuke
    It is absurd to imagine that the president of the most powerful nation on earth in 1967 would take orders from a barely half-developed country in the Eastern Mediterranean.

    "Were going to be screening the Zapruder film for you after tonight dinner again Mr President".

  99. @mcohen
    9/11 was a false flag operatiom by the russians to weaken the usa position in the middle east which it has.donald trump who is anti russian is changing that.
    All those who accuse israel are commie bum boys running errands for putin.

    All those who accuse israel are commie bum boys running errands for putin.

    Jews and Commies — a match solidly endorsed by Norman Finkelstein.

    Susan Liebman Butler has also placed her heart and her loyalty at the feet of Josef Stalin, just like Finkelstein does.
    “But Stalin killed millions of Ukrainians — far more people than Hitler killed,” someone reminded Liebman-Butler.
    Replied Butler: “Stalin had to do it to preserve his vision, and besides, they were Kulaks.”
    (if you’re a Kulak — or a sailor on a US ship — your death is inconsequential.)
    https://www.c-span.org/video/?190721-1/dear-mr-stalin

    Although — as hateful as their attitudes are: i.e. Finkelstein endorses “the Jewish attitude: Never Forgive, Never Forget,” and allows latent passive-aggression to come to the fore when he “hypothesizes” that Israelis killed Americans on USS Liberty out of their “deep and eternal hatred for the goyim” — at least he and Liebman-Butler own their psychopathologies.

    Not so Ron and Allis Radosh. They figured out tout de suite which side of the bread was buttered; after immersing themselves in Communism when it was beneficial, they switched sides and ratted out their former fellows.

    What they all have in common that they turned their psychopathologies into a livelihood.

    ——–

    By the way: A couple weeks ago the Jewish mayor of Charlottesville supported removing Confederate statues from public places in the Home of Thomas Jefferson.
    But Jefferson’s University, University of Virginia in Charlottesville, dedicates a week to memorializing the holocaust, and nearby Richmond, Virginia has a museum to the holocaust.

    Harpy Nikki Haley removed the Confederate flag from public places in South Carolina.
    But South Carolina created a council to study the holocaust, —>

    South Carolina Council on the Holocaust

    “The work that the SC Council on the Holocaust does is so important for our students in South Carolina. Having a chance to discuss and reflect on the past gives students the tools to be better citizens for our future.”

    –Molly Spearman, State Superintendent of Education

    How many students in US taxpayer-supported schools are given “the chance to discuss and reflect on” Israel’s attack on the Liberty?

    How many US states have memorials to the 34 men who died on the Liberty?

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    • Replies: @chris

    ...South Carolina created a council to study the holocaust
     
    That's ok because, as Joseph Sobran once put it, introducing Holocaust Studies into the US curriculum can only lead, in the near future, to ... Remedial Holocaust Studies
  100. anon says:     Show CommentNext New Comment
    @Bragadocious
    The cynic in me wonders if the IDF made an analysis of whether there were any of the Chosen People on the Liberty before opening fire. That sounds like something they very well might have done, as they would probably be able to instantly get the crew manifest from one of their Pollard-like moles in the Navy.

    Might be interesting to find out how many Tribesmen were on the Liberty while it was in the Indian Ocean and how many still aboard after it was deployed to the Mediterranean.

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  101. @mcohen
    9/11 was a false flag operatiom by the russians to weaken the usa position in the middle east which it has.donald trump who is anti russian is changing that.
    All those who accuse israel are commie bum boys running errands for putin.

    All those who accuse israel are commie bum boys running errands for putin.

    May I nominate you for hasbara TROLL of the day – excellent work (funny too – big smile).

    Peace — Art

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  102. @animalogic
    The further I learn about this grotesque, criminal incident the further I strongly suspect two things:
    1. It was a failed false flag; the purpose of which: to incriminate Egypt. The entire plot relied on the total destruction of the Liberty and it's crew: no ship, no crew, no evidence. (The failed false flag hypothesis at least makes some sense of Israeli motives. Against this view: the Israelis failed, which may be interpreted as evidence that complete destruction was NOT the goal. Also, it might be thought how could the Israelis be SO stupid as to think, given the length of time from observation to concluded attack, that they could "get away with it"? But again, no ship, no crew, no evidence. The rest is denial and bullshit.)
    2. Which leads to the 2nd point ( harder to demonstrate ) that the highest level of the US Admin KNEW about this or "a" pending false flag attack by the Israelis. The speed - confidence - with which Macnamara calls off the jets, the well oiled cover up later, all, at least, suggest US foreknowledge. US complicity would also help explain why the Israelis weren't that worried about radio traffic ID'ing their fighters.
    On even the bare facts the Liberty incident represented that even 50 years ago, the US government was in (treasonous ) thrall to a foreign power.

    On even the bare facts the Liberty incident represented that even 50 years ago, the US government was in (treasonous ) thrall to a foreign power.

    With respect, this does not follow at all. The entire world (U.S., UK, France, Israel) treated the Suez Canal as a key geostrategic area. In the 1956/1957 Suez Canal Crisis, the U.S. intervened forcefully against the UK/French/Israeli alliance which had no option but to back down in the face of U.S. opposition.

    The U.S. was and is pursuing its own aims. That these aims are often contrary to the interests of 95% of the U.S. population does not change the fact that the power elite are vigorously furthering their own interests.

    “Cultural Marxists” love to say that “oppressed” groups have no “agency,” i.e. shit just happens to them, they are tossed helplessly in a roiling sea of events.

    Is it really a reasonable explanation of observed facts to assume that everything the U.S. does is dictated by a few people in a small, far-away country?

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    • Replies: @L.K
    We see what you are doing here, (zionist)Eagle, and it is NOT working...
    First of all, it is not a few people in a far away country, but an organic, extremely powerful, well funded and organized zionist 5th column inside ZUSA.
    Nobody is claiming that everything ZUSA does is bc of the zionists either; they are, however, the main drivers of US foreign policy in the M.E and often beyond it.
    P. Giraldi wrote in his above piece:

    That Congress is deaf to the pleas of the Liberty crew should surprise no one as the nation’s legislative body has been for years, as Pat Buchanan once put it, “Israeli occupied territory.” The Lobby’s ability to force Congress and even the presidency to submit to its will has been spelled out in some detail by critics, first by Paul Findley in They Dare to Speak Out, later by John Mearsheimer and Stephen Walt in The Israel Lobby, in Alison Weir’s Against Our Better Judgment, and most recently in Kirk Beattie’s excellent Congress and the Shaping of the Middle East.
     
    Your attempts at misdirection have been noted.
    , @animalogic
    "Is it really a reasonable explanation of observed facts to assume that everything the U.S. does is dictated by a few people in a small, far-away country?"
    In THIS case it IS a reasonable explanation: if the US has not been acting in Israeli interests for 50 years, then whose ? (Other than the obvious point that US elites 99% of the time see US/Israeli interests as identical.)
    , @Anonymous
    The difference between Pres Eisenhower 1956 and LBJ 1967 is that Eisenhower was independent of Jewish power. LBJ was totally owned by Jews in both foreign policy and domestic policy( 1965 immigration act, 1968 affirmative action act, EEOC, funding all sorts of black militant war on poverty programs, on and on).

    I don't believe in any of the who killed JFK conspiracy theories, but in terms of who benefits, LBJs anti White domestic policies fulfilled the dreams of every NAACP Jew since 1910.
  103. @animalogic
    The further I learn about this grotesque, criminal incident the further I strongly suspect two things:
    1. It was a failed false flag; the purpose of which: to incriminate Egypt. The entire plot relied on the total destruction of the Liberty and it's crew: no ship, no crew, no evidence. (The failed false flag hypothesis at least makes some sense of Israeli motives. Against this view: the Israelis failed, which may be interpreted as evidence that complete destruction was NOT the goal. Also, it might be thought how could the Israelis be SO stupid as to think, given the length of time from observation to concluded attack, that they could "get away with it"? But again, no ship, no crew, no evidence. The rest is denial and bullshit.)
    2. Which leads to the 2nd point ( harder to demonstrate ) that the highest level of the US Admin KNEW about this or "a" pending false flag attack by the Israelis. The speed - confidence - with which Macnamara calls off the jets, the well oiled cover up later, all, at least, suggest US foreknowledge. US complicity would also help explain why the Israelis weren't that worried about radio traffic ID'ing their fighters.
    On even the bare facts the Liberty incident represented that even 50 years ago, the US government was in (treasonous ) thrall to a foreign power.

    2. Which leads to the 2nd point ( harder to demonstrate ) that the highest level of the US Admin KNEW about this or “a” pending false flag attack by the Israelis.

    Harry McPherson was LBJ’s speechwriter.

    He was in Tel Aviv on the day/time the war went hot:

    Jeff Gates knew McPherson and interviewed him for his book, Guilt by Association.

    Here’s how Gates describes McPherson’s Tel Aviv experience: ( @ 10 min)

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cr56HuPf-9o

    Harry was on his way back from a visit to Viet Nam and wanted to stop in Israel. He asked “the Boss” [LBJ] if that was ok; Johnson said, Fine, just clear it with everyone.

    So he flew into the airport in Tel Aviv and the lights were off. He thought that was curious. He got a call at about 4:00 am from our [the U.S.] ambassador who said, “the war has started.” [McPherson] said, “What do you mean, the war, I just came from the war.” This was the ’67 war.

    The ambassador said, I’m going to pick you up, and they went to meet with Abba Eban, . . ., the Israeli ambassador, and then went to see the head of Israeli intelligence.

    And they said, What is it? Did the Egyptians just come across the border? And the guy changed the subject. They asked again, and the guy changed the subject again.

    About that time they heard these air raid sirens beginning to wail, and they said, Don’t you think we should go into the air raid shelter? And this head of Israeli intelligence looked at his watch and said, That won’t be necessary.

    And these two gentlemen looked at each other — Harry and the ambassador — . . . and they said, Oh my god! This was a put-up job; they had been setting up this attack on Egypt and took out the Egyptian air force — their entire air force — in about an hour and a half. There was no attack on Israel.

    So a very close advisor to LBJ was on the scene in Tel Aviv and witnessed first-hand and at the highest level that Israelis were manipulating and manufacturing the crisis.

    Read More
  104. @L.K
    So, what about 9-11, Mr. Giraldi?

    Are you guys going to allow it to become another USS Liberty?

    The official story is clearly bunk & zionist fingerprints are all over it.

    Regarding the matter of whether or not bin Laden and ‘al-Qaeda’ were even capable of orchestrating the 9-11 Attacks, author and professor David Ray Griffin, wrote:


    For prosecutors to prove that defendants committed a crime, they must show that they had the ability (as well as the motive and opportunity) to do so.
    But several political and military leaders from other countries have stated that bin Laden and al-Qaeda simply could not have carried out the attacks.
    General Leonid Ivashov, who in 2001 was the chief of staff for the Russian armed forces, wrote:

    “Only secret services and their current chiefs—or those retired but still having influence inside the state organizations—have the ability to plan, organize and conduct an operation of such magnitude...Osama bin Laden and “Al Qaeda” cannot be the organizers nor the performers of the September 11 attacks. They do not have the necessary organization, resources or leaders.”
    ...
    Similar statements have been made by Andreas von Bülow, the former state secretary of West Germany’s ministry of defense, by General Mirza Aslam Beg, former chief of staff of Pakistan’s army, and even General Musharraf, the president of Pakistan until recently.[109]

    This same point was also made by veteran CIA agent Milt Bearden. Speaking disparagingly of “the myth of Osama bin Laden” on CBS News the day after 9/11, Bearden said: “I was there [in Afghanistan] at the same time bin Laden was there. He was not the great warrior.” With regard to the widespread view that bin Laden was behind the attacks, he said: “This was a tremendously sophisticated operation against the United States—more sophisticated than anybody would have ascribed to Osama bin Laden.” Pointing out that a group capable of such a sophisticated attack would have had a way to cover their tracks, he added: “This group who was responsible for that, if they didn’t have an Osama bin Laden out there, they’d invent one, because he’s a terrific diversion.”[110]


     

    “Are you guys going to allow it [9/11] to become another USS Liberty?”
    “I wonder; the USS Liberty was attacked many years before I was even born…”
    “Where these planes came from, probably some secret CIA base.”

    Ah, 9/11. The catnip of conspirator theorists. Never mind the USS Liberty. Meow!

    L.K, jilles, Rurik,

    You guys missed your own 9/11 boat. The best theory (my favorite):

    “Anyone who views the contemporaneous footage can see for himself that there were no “collapses” of skyscrapers on 9/11. WTC 1 and 2 did not “collapse”, nor were they demolished in a conventional manner. They were disintegrated, with most of their steel and concrete cores being converted to fine dust. The destruction of WTC 1 and 2 (not to mention the core of WTC6) was not due to jet fuel, airliner impacts, or conventional demolition materials. The Twin Towers were almost certainly brought down by small – or perhaps micro – nuclear weapons. No other scenario is even possible, given that the events had all the signatures of nuclear detonations…”
    -Mulegino1 #356 27oct16
    http://www.unz.com/article/911-truth/#new_comments

    Please confer. Can you get your act together? How’s a reader to know who to blame?

    Have any of you – in reality, not on a computer screen – actually demolished or built a building? Dumb question.

    Tell us the truth. Do you speak daily with Captain James Kirk and First Officer Spock? What do they tell you? 9/11 was a conspiracy?

    Pray to the Machine to ensure the continuity of electrical power for your illusions (see E. M. Forester ‘The Machine Stops’).

    In future please remember Mulegino1’s “small – or perhaps micro – nuclear weapons”. No reason to reinvent your 9/11 wheel.

    Mulegino1 – are you out there? Salute!

    ps – don’t worry, I’m a troll (i.e. burdened with real world experience, old enough to remember USS Liberty first hand).

    Read More
    • Replies: @L.K
    Indeed, you are a troll... that is about the only thing you got right in your idiotic rant, inZitatus.

    Listen, imbecile, as far as conspiracies go, the US government official story re 9-11 IS a conspiracy theory, except it does not have a leg to stand on, it contains more holes than most Hollywood movie scripts...

    BTW, I hear there is a new flick that is right down your alley... 'wonder woman'...
    Israeli lead, German villains, and the best part of it is...
    It is all fiction, much like the ridiculous holohoax & its mythical gas chambers, 6 trillion, nieh, nieh.
    , @Anon
    You are being very naughty. With all the maddies for some reason gathered to froth on this thread a few vital fuses may be blown if too much stimulus is applied.

    Now that you are hete I would be pleased if you would turn your sane and analytical mind to #31 and #43.
    , @iffen
    The Liberty incident is just a modern day hook. It can take a while to wade through some of these.

    BTW, I answered my last question to you and I was not at all pleased with the answer. I have decided to assert my rights as a normal human being and not think about the implications.
  105. […] By Philip Giraldi Global Research, June 06, 2017 The Unz Review […]

    Read More
  106. @Eagle Eye

    On even the bare facts the Liberty incident represented that even 50 years ago, the US government was in (treasonous ) thrall to a foreign power.
     
    With respect, this does not follow at all. The entire world (U.S., UK, France, Israel) treated the Suez Canal as a key geostrategic area. In the 1956/1957 Suez Canal Crisis, the U.S. intervened forcefully against the UK/French/Israeli alliance which had no option but to back down in the face of U.S. opposition.

    The U.S. was and is pursuing its own aims. That these aims are often contrary to the interests of 95% of the U.S. population does not change the fact that the power elite are vigorously furthering their own interests.

    "Cultural Marxists" love to say that "oppressed" groups have no "agency," i.e. shit just happens to them, they are tossed helplessly in a roiling sea of events.

    Is it really a reasonable explanation of observed facts to assume that everything the U.S. does is dictated by a few people in a small, far-away country?

    We see what you are doing here, (zionist)Eagle, and it is NOT working…
    First of all, it is not a few people in a far away country, but an organic, extremely powerful, well funded and organized zionist 5th column inside ZUSA.
    Nobody is claiming that everything ZUSA does is bc of the zionists either; they are, however, the main drivers of US foreign policy in the M.E and often beyond it.
    P. Giraldi wrote in his above piece:

    That Congress is deaf to the pleas of the Liberty crew should surprise no one as the nation’s legislative body has been for years, as Pat Buchanan once put it, “Israeli occupied territory.” The Lobby’s ability to force Congress and even the presidency to submit to its will has been spelled out in some detail by critics, first by Paul Findley in They Dare to Speak Out, later by John Mearsheimer and Stephen Walt in The Israel Lobby, in Alison Weir’s Against Our Better Judgment, and most recently in Kirk Beattie’s excellent Congress and the Shaping of the Middle East.

    Your attempts at misdirection have been noted.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Eagle Eye

    ... an organic, extremely powerful, well funded and organized zionist 5th column ...
     
    We are talking about 1967, not 2017. Back then neither Israel nor its backers in the U.S. had anywhere near the clout that their detractors attribute to them in 2017.

    In 1967, Israel was not in any real sense a U.S. ally. Israel's fighter jets at the time were French Mirage. U.S. sales of armaments only started in 1968, i.e. after the 1967 war.

    Some 10 years earlier, Israel and its temporary allies UK and France had been forcefully rebuffed by the U.S. in the Suez Canal Crisis, and Israel as a whole was still working to become an advanced country and was still heavily influenced by socialist thinking.

  107. @Bragadocious
    The cynic in me wonders if the IDF made an analysis of whether there were any of the Chosen People on the Liberty before opening fire. That sounds like something they very well might have done, as they would probably be able to instantly get the crew manifest from one of their Pollard-like moles in the Navy.

    There were some Jews among the Liberty’s crew. One was an interviewee in a documentary I saw years ago.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Bragadocious
    I looked at the casualty list and found a Toth and a Mendle, both of which can be Jewish names....or not. I wonder how the Jews on board felt about this attack. Given the actions of LBJ, it seems the Jew card has definite credit limits -- when you're going against the "Jewish State."
  108. @Incitatus

    “Are you guys going to allow it [9/11] to become another USS Liberty?”
    “I wonder; the USS Liberty was attacked many years before I was even born…”
    “Where these planes came from, probably some secret CIA base.”

     
    Ah, 9/11. The catnip of conspirator theorists. Never mind the USS Liberty. Meow!

    L.K, jilles, Rurik,

    You guys missed your own 9/11 boat. The best theory (my favorite):

    “Anyone who views the contemporaneous footage can see for himself that there were no “collapses” of skyscrapers on 9/11. WTC 1 and 2 did not “collapse”, nor were they demolished in a conventional manner. They were disintegrated, with most of their steel and concrete cores being converted to fine dust. The destruction of WTC 1 and 2 (not to mention the core of WTC6) was not due to jet fuel, airliner impacts, or conventional demolition materials. The Twin Towers were almost certainly brought down by small – or perhaps micro – nuclear weapons. No other scenario is even possible, given that the events had all the signatures of nuclear detonations...”
    -Mulegino1 #356 27oct16
    http://www.unz.com/article/911-truth/#new_comments
     
    Please confer. Can you get your act together? How’s a reader to know who to blame?

    Have any of you - in reality, not on a computer screen - actually demolished or built a building? Dumb question.

    Tell us the truth. Do you speak daily with Captain James Kirk and First Officer Spock? What do they tell you? 9/11 was a conspiracy?

    Pray to the Machine to ensure the continuity of electrical power for your illusions (see E. M. Forester ‘The Machine Stops’).

    In future please remember Mulegino1’s “small – or perhaps micro – nuclear weapons”. No reason to reinvent your 9/11 wheel.

    Mulegino1 - are you out there? Salute!

    ps - don’t worry, I’m a troll (i.e. burdened with real world experience, old enough to remember USS Liberty first hand).

    Indeed, you are a troll… that is about the only thing you got right in your idiotic rant, inZitatus.

    Listen, imbecile, as far as conspiracies go, the US government official story re 9-11 IS a conspiracy theory, except it does not have a leg to stand on, it contains more holes than most Hollywood movie scripts…

    BTW, I hear there is a new flick that is right down your alley… ‘wonder woman’…
    Israeli lead, German villains, and the best part of it is…
    It is all fiction, much like the ridiculous holohoax & its mythical gas chambers, 6 trillion, nieh, nieh.

    Read More
    • LOL: chris
    • Replies: @Incitatus
    “....troll...idiotic...rant...imbecile...holohoax... mythical gas chambers...6 trillion...”

    Catnip alert! Meow, meow, meow!

    “...it [the official 9/11 theory] contains more holes than most Hollywood movie scripts…”

    You’re the expert in movie scripts L.K. Indeed, rather too many of them?

    You posit the official story false, but award the GWBush administration superhuman powers without explaining any mechanics. Their explanation is blatant criminal negligence consistent with their total incompetence in Katrina and Iraq ‘03. How could such bumblers pull off an inside job on 9/11?

    More important, you vomit fantasy instead of pressing for criminal charges for admitted failures in the official 9/11 story (let alone conspiracy and aggressive war in Iraq ‘03). Really concerned, or is it just a little itch you like to scratch that makes you feel better?

    ‘Wonder Women’? She’s nothing on you!
  109. […] The Unz Review: Remembering the U.S.S. Liberty. The 50 year cover-up of a mass murder of U.S. servi… […]

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  110. @Eagle Eye

    On even the bare facts the Liberty incident represented that even 50 years ago, the US government was in (treasonous ) thrall to a foreign power.
     
    With respect, this does not follow at all. The entire world (U.S., UK, France, Israel) treated the Suez Canal as a key geostrategic area. In the 1956/1957 Suez Canal Crisis, the U.S. intervened forcefully against the UK/French/Israeli alliance which had no option but to back down in the face of U.S. opposition.

    The U.S. was and is pursuing its own aims. That these aims are often contrary to the interests of 95% of the U.S. population does not change the fact that the power elite are vigorously furthering their own interests.

    "Cultural Marxists" love to say that "oppressed" groups have no "agency," i.e. shit just happens to them, they are tossed helplessly in a roiling sea of events.

    Is it really a reasonable explanation of observed facts to assume that everything the U.S. does is dictated by a few people in a small, far-away country?

    “Is it really a reasonable explanation of observed facts to assume that everything the U.S. does is dictated by a few people in a small, far-away country?”
    In THIS case it IS a reasonable explanation: if the US has not been acting in Israeli interests for 50 years, then whose ? (Other than the obvious point that US elites 99% of the time see US/Israeli interests as identical.)

    Read More
  111. Anonymous says:     Show CommentNext New Comment

    You’re right about the wrong use of the word Palestine. In the 18th century Christians called it the Holy Land.

    Turk pirates and slave traders still roamed the Atlantic and the Mediterranean at the time so the Christian pilgrimages were few and far between till 1830s when France conquered Algeria.
    The Holy Land was pretty much ignored in Franklins time.

    This is just another example of Rurik’s “research ” by Wikepedia instead of the nearest university library. Even middle school children are told to not rely on wikepedia

    Read More
  112. @HBM
    One wonders how they might act if they were to achieve their long-term goals and there were no more goyim left to lie to or ones worth exploiting; none remaining to react against and thereby and fuel their behavior. What behaviors would they have left?

    Maybe they'd just switch-off like killer robots who've completed their mission.

    No. Factions will arise, they are there already, then they will turn on one another. Long knives etc.

    Read More
    • Replies: @jacques sheete
    You are correct.

    Josephus' works describe a lot of that sort of thing. The old Cain and Abel deal deja vu "all over again," and it will never, ever end.
  113. @mcohen
    geokat
    should know that normal finkelstein has been a mossad operative for some time.a branch similar to 8100.you been had my cad.
    your hatred of Israel has blinded you to the fact that it was american military hardware that won the day.the 6 day war victory was just a spinoff.in a competing arms race against the soviets american military hardware proved superior.the Israeli s paid the price in blood for this marketing campaign. the rewards were more land.
    you and your fellow fake Palestinian supporters should suck it up the back passage and trump(et) it out your ears for that daily mind cleansing ritual

    …. normal finkelstein has been a mossad operative for some time.

    Here is our Mossad agent doing some more under cover work:

    https://youtu.be/Pjq5YC5JzEw

    Read More
  114. @David In TN
    There were some Jews among the Liberty's crew. One was an interviewee in a documentary I saw years ago.

    I looked at the casualty list and found a Toth and a Mendle, both of which can be Jewish names….or not. I wonder how the Jews on board felt about this attack. Given the actions of LBJ, it seems the Jew card has definite credit limits — when you’re going against the “Jewish State.”

    Read More
    • Replies: @David In TN
    The Jewish Liberty survivor said the Israeli attack was deliberate. He felt the same way the other survivors did.
    , @anonHUN
    Toth is a very common Hungarian surname, it actually means "Slovak". Of course can be a jewish person, but not a typical jewish surname.
    , @Uebersetzer
    Jews died in the King David bombing - the attackers probably considered it collateral damage or the death of collaborators with the British or whatever. I don't think Jewish crew on the Liberty would deter the Israelis from whatever course of action they chose, whether it was a deliberate attack or a mistake at some level.
    , @jacques sheete
    Remember the Patria, for one.
  115. anon says:     Show CommentNext New Comment
    @geokat62
    You beat me to the punch. I just finished reading the same MW article and was about to post it here. I couldn't believe my eyes as I was reading the transcript of their casual conversation. Needless to say, my jaw dropped when I came to this part of their conversation.

    Let's see how the hasbara tag team try to rationalize this explanation.

    What percentage of your average day do you spend obsessing over jews ?
    What does your family think about your obsession ? Answer honestly please.

    Read More
    • Replies: @geokat62

    What percentage of your average day do you spend obsessing over jews ?
     
    Sorry, anon. What we're obsessing about is power. And you have to admit organized Jewry wield tremendous power. Don't you recall how many standing ovations King Bibi was treated to by the bought and paid for members of Congress? Don't you recall how upset they were when Rand Paul's applause was deemed less than enthusiastic? Informed people can't help but notice who has disproportionate power and it is only to be expected that they feel obliged to point that out.

    Trust this answers your question.

  116. anon says:     Show CommentNext New Comment
    @Mr. Anon
    This site is dedicated to covering things that others - the MSM in particular - do not. So why is it strange for Mr. Giraldi to bring some attention to the Liberty incident, given that it receives little attention elsewhere.

    By the way, why has there never even been a movie made about the U.S.S. Liberty? Movies have been made about other cold-war-era incidents at sea: The U.S.S. Pueblo incident and the defection of Simas Kudirka, for instance. So why has there never even been a made-for-TV movie about the U.S.S. Liberty? Even if it was just a mistake, it was a noteworthy one, was it not?

    The MSM doesnt cover the Indonesian occupation and genocide in West Papua or Maluku. Nor do they cover the Moroccan occupation and war crimes in Western Sahara . The Turkish occupation of Cyprus is ignored by the MSM . The apartheid in all Islamic countries where converting to Christianity is a death penalty offense. Why does Giraldi ignore these stories but has a dozen posts about USS Liberty if he is interested in shedding light on MSM oversights and cover ups.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anon
    C'mon lower case. Don't pretend to be dumb. America is PG's country and main interest. Also one should be grateful on UR to find someone writing about something which he might have a real claim to know more about than he and the average Amrrican does about Cyprus or West Irian.
    , @Art
    Why does Giraldi ignore these stories but has a dozen posts about USS Liberty if he is interested in shedding light on MSM oversights and cover ups.

    Because - unlike YOU - he loves America FIRST.

    Peace --- Art

    p.s. Your utter dishonesty is disgusting!

    p.s. Your comments screech JEW!
    , @Mr. Anon
    Because Mr. Giraldi is an American (as most of the rest of us are) and the USS Liberty was an American naval vessel. Doesn't that kind of make it interesting?................to us?
    , @chris
    Simply because in none of these other crimes are we directly supporting the belligerents with billions and billions of dollars. These being our dollars and obligations, we want to register our disagreement.
  117. @Bragadocious
    I looked at the casualty list and found a Toth and a Mendle, both of which can be Jewish names....or not. I wonder how the Jews on board felt about this attack. Given the actions of LBJ, it seems the Jew card has definite credit limits -- when you're going against the "Jewish State."

    The Jewish Liberty survivor said the Israeli attack was deliberate. He felt the same way the other survivors did.

    Read More
  118. Israel enjoys a unique ‘license to kill’. This includes its own benefactors. No nation or people is safe from this self-seeking, malevolent force.

    Read More
    • Replies: @anon
    Syria has killed more people in the past 3 years than Israel has in the past 100 years. In fact in October of 1982 alone , Syria killed more people than Israel has in the past 100 years. Talk about a license to kill ........
  119. Anonymous says:     Show CommentNext New Comment
    @Eagle Eye

    On even the bare facts the Liberty incident represented that even 50 years ago, the US government was in (treasonous ) thrall to a foreign power.
     
    With respect, this does not follow at all. The entire world (U.S., UK, France, Israel) treated the Suez Canal as a key geostrategic area. In the 1956/1957 Suez Canal Crisis, the U.S. intervened forcefully against the UK/French/Israeli alliance which had no option but to back down in the face of U.S. opposition.

    The U.S. was and is pursuing its own aims. That these aims are often contrary to the interests of 95% of the U.S. population does not change the fact that the power elite are vigorously furthering their own interests.

    "Cultural Marxists" love to say that "oppressed" groups have no "agency," i.e. shit just happens to them, they are tossed helplessly in a roiling sea of events.

    Is it really a reasonable explanation of observed facts to assume that everything the U.S. does is dictated by a few people in a small, far-away country?

    The difference between Pres Eisenhower 1956 and LBJ 1967 is that Eisenhower was independent of Jewish power. LBJ was totally owned by Jews in both foreign policy and domestic policy( 1965 immigration act, 1968 affirmative action act, EEOC, funding all sorts of black militant war on poverty programs, on and on).

    I don’t believe in any of the who killed JFK conspiracy theories, but in terms of who benefits, LBJs anti White domestic policies fulfilled the dreams of every NAACP Jew since 1910.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Eagle Eye

    I don’t believe in any of the who killed JFK conspiracy theories, ...
     
    So Jack is still alive?

    I take it you also would not believe "in any of the who killed Caesar conspiracy theories ..." so Caesar too is still alive.

    Do conspiracies ever happen in your world? Or would all the conspirators have to sign a notarized certificate before the rest of us are allowed to say that there is a conspiracy?

    , @jilles dykstra
    Whitewash shows clearly that it was impossible that Oswald was the only one who shot.
    Kennedy was killed two weeks after he threatened Israel with not giving them weapons any more if they continued developing their atomic bomb.
    , @jilles dykstra
    Its is asserted that Eisenhower was a jew.
    How he hated Germans can be read in
    James Bacque, ´Der geplante Tod, Deutsche Kriegsgefangene in amerikanischen und französischen Lagern 1945 – 1946, Frankfurt/M, 1989, 1994 (Other losses, Toronto, 1989).
    Eisenhower writes in a letter "we should have killed more Germans".
    , @LondonBob
    I think LBJ was more than owned given his ancestry and his very early support and actions going back to Leo Frank and going into the 30s with his support for Jewish immigration. According to historian James M. Smallwood, Congressman Johnson used legal and sometimes illegal methods to smuggle ‘hundreds of Jews into Texas, using Galveston as the entry port. Enough money could buy false passports and fake visas in Cuba, Mexico and other Latin American countries . . . Johnson smuggled boatloads and planeloads of Jews into Texas. He hid them in the Texas National Youth Administration . . . Johnson saved at least four or five hundred Jews, possibly more.’

    During World War II Johnson attended a small Austin gathering to sell $65,000 in war bonds. According to Gomolak, Johnson and a Jewish friend called Novy then raised a very ‘substantial sum for arms for Jewish underground fighters in Palestine.’ One source cited by the historian reports that ‘Novy and Johnson had been secretly shipping heavy crates labeled ‘Texas Grapefruit’ – but containing arms – to Jewish underground ‘freedom fighters’ in Palestine.’

    For a description of LBJ’s backing for Israel, see Neff’s, ‘LBJ Was First to Align US with Israel’s Policies’, in the Washington Report on Middle East, Nov-Dec 1996 p. 96. His affinity for Israel is movingly described by the Senior Editor of the Jewish Press in his article ‘LBJ and Israel’, 7 Sept 2002.

    LBJ’s early backing for Israel can be found in the Senate Records, 1957-58, the Eisenhower Library and LBJ’s own Presidential Library. After the 1956 Suez debacle, Israel clung on to Gaza and Aquaba, despite demands from both the US and UN to quit. By the spring of 1957, UN Secretary General Dag Hammarskjöld was actively promoting UN sanctions against Israel as an aggressor nation and in defiance of UN Resolutions.

    The Israeli plan was scuppered in the US mainly by Senate Leader LBJ, who urged the State Dept. not to support sanctions ‘against a small country like Israel’ and rallied support in the Senate to block any legislation. (See New York Times of 20 February 1957 and, perhaps significantly, Louis Bloomfield’s monograph, ‘Egypt, Israel and the Gulf of Aquaba’.)

    Like JFK, his predecessor President Eisenhower was no advocate of ‘Israel, Right or Wrong’. LBJ and Eisenhower locked horns over Israel when Ike became heavily involved with the crisis over Israeli attempts to annex a Palestinian area around Banat Ya’qub in 1953 in order to divert water from the River Jordan. America stepped in to broker a deal. When the UN observers realised that the Israelis were ignoring their part of the agreement, Ike moved swiftly to revoke tax-deductible status of Jewish-Americans to Zionist organisations in order to force Israel to honour its obligations.

    Despite enormous pressure from US Jewish lobby groups, LBJ himself and claims that his policies were ‘anti-Semitic’, Eisenhower stood firm. When the Israeli government realised that their money supply really was going to dry up, they backed down and Ike restored aid. Full accounts are in the LBJ Library Archive and – from a more objective viewpoint – in the ‘jfk montreal’ site.

    Just one month after succeeding Kennedy, LBJ attended the December 1963 dedication of the Agudas Achim Synagogue in Austin. Novy opened the ceremony by saying Johnson, ‘We can’t thank him enough for all those Jews he got out of Germany during the days of Hitler.’
  120. anon says:     Show CommentNext New Comment
    @Mark Green
    Israel enjoys a unique 'license to kill'. This includes its own benefactors. No nation or people is safe from this self-seeking, malevolent force.

    Syria has killed more people in the past 3 years than Israel has in the past 100 years. In fact in October of 1982 alone , Syria killed more people than Israel has in the past 100 years. Talk about a license to kill ……..

    Read More
    • Replies: @L.K
    No, zionist shill, what is taking place in Syria is also a war for Israel;
    Zionist agents have been planning this proxy war, going back at least to 2006, according to Assange.
    ZUSA and its coalition of rogue states have been fighting a proxy war against Syria through the use of Salafist-Wahhabi extremists from all over the world, posing as Syrian "rebels".
    Veteran CIA Ray McGovern, during a cross talk interview on Syria, at 1:14; The Elephant in the room re the reason for ZUSA's regime change policies toward Syria: Israel
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xd5fuAUM2BM

    Former US marine Ken O'Keefe on RT about al-ciada und isis in Syria, etc
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c-sOnmsWivs
    , @MEexpert
    I didn't know Israel existed 100 years ago. The killings in Syria are being done by Israel and her collaborators (ISIS, Al-Qaeda, Al-Nusra, Jabaht-al-Islam and the USA). License-to-kill; how about Israel murdering people all around the world with impunity. Any killing done by these guys, anywhere in the world, should be blamed on Israel. Any war the US is involved in the Middle East is for the benefit of Israel and therefore any killings due to that war belong to Israel.
  121. […] “Remembering the U.S.S. Liberty”.  The date, June 8, should be an American national holiday, Cuck Day. […]

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  122. @anon
    Syria has killed more people in the past 3 years than Israel has in the past 100 years. In fact in October of 1982 alone , Syria killed more people than Israel has in the past 100 years. Talk about a license to kill ........

    No, zionist shill, what is taking place in Syria is also a war for Israel;
    Zionist agents have been planning this proxy war, going back at least to 2006, according to Assange.
    ZUSA and its coalition of rogue states have been fighting a proxy war against Syria through the use of Salafist-Wahhabi extremists from all over the world, posing as Syrian “rebels”.
    Veteran CIA Ray McGovern, during a cross talk interview on Syria, at 1:14; The Elephant in the room re the reason for ZUSA’s regime change policies toward Syria: Israel
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xd5fuAUM2BM

    Former US marine Ken O’Keefe on RT about al-ciada und isis in Syria, etc
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c-sOnmsWivs

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    • Replies: @mcohen
    Lk

    "says syria is a war for israel"

    Is that right.

    Turkey is flooding europe with jihadis and europe has established a beachhead on the syrian coast.

    What part of pakistan you from
    , @anon
    Hey happy guy !!!!
    Actually the illegitimate Syrian Alawite government is killing its own Sunni population . Sure Sunni are coming to help their brothers , it is their obligation according to the holy Koran. You must be an Islamophobe.

    Syria is a dictatorship . The Alawite minority is 10% of population . Sunni is 70% of the population. The Assad dynasty seized power in a coup and has been a murderous dictatorship since.

    This Alawite murder machine is nothing new. Forget the half a million killed by Syria in the past few years. In October of 1982 alone the Syria dictatorship killed 30,000 people.
  123. @L.K
    No, zionist shill, what is taking place in Syria is also a war for Israel;
    Zionist agents have been planning this proxy war, going back at least to 2006, according to Assange.
    ZUSA and its coalition of rogue states have been fighting a proxy war against Syria through the use of Salafist-Wahhabi extremists from all over the world, posing as Syrian "rebels".
    Veteran CIA Ray McGovern, during a cross talk interview on Syria, at 1:14; The Elephant in the room re the reason for ZUSA's regime change policies toward Syria: Israel
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xd5fuAUM2BM

    Former US marine Ken O'Keefe on RT about al-ciada und isis in Syria, etc
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c-sOnmsWivs

    Lk

    “says syria is a war for israel”

    Is that right.

    Turkey is flooding europe with jihadis and europe has established a beachhead on the syrian coast.

    What part of pakistan you from

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  124. Anon says:     Show CommentNext New Comment
    @anon
    The MSM doesnt cover the Indonesian occupation and genocide in West Papua or Maluku. Nor do they cover the Moroccan occupation and war crimes in Western Sahara . The Turkish occupation of Cyprus is ignored by the MSM . The apartheid in all Islamic countries where converting to Christianity is a death penalty offense. Why does Giraldi ignore these stories but has a dozen posts about USS Liberty if he is interested in shedding light on MSM oversights and cover ups.

    C’mon lower case. Don’t pretend to be dumb. America is PG’s country and main interest. Also one should be grateful on UR to find someone writing about something which he might have a real claim to know more about than he and the average Amrrican does about Cyprus or West Irian.

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  125. @anon
    Syria has killed more people in the past 3 years than Israel has in the past 100 years. In fact in October of 1982 alone , Syria killed more people than Israel has in the past 100 years. Talk about a license to kill ........

    I didn’t know Israel existed 100 years ago. The killings in Syria are being done by Israel and her collaborators (ISIS, Al-Qaeda, Al-Nusra, Jabaht-al-Islam and the USA). License-to-kill; how about Israel murdering people all around the world with impunity. Any killing done by these guys, anywhere in the world, should be blamed on Israel. Any war the US is involved in the Middle East is for the benefit of Israel and therefore any killings due to that war belong to Israel.

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    • Agree: Z-man, L.K, jacques sheete
    • Replies: @anon
    The killings in Syria are being carried out by the minority alawite dictatorship (alawites are 10% of the Syrian poplulation) that siezed power in a coup and has never relinquished it. In one month in 1982 the Syrians killed more people than Israel has in the past 100 years. The killing done by Syria in the past 3 years is 20 X what Israel has done in 100 years.
  126. @Che Guava
    Well, you certainly display obsession in gathering that list.

    Unz.com has a great search feature. Took about 90 seconds.

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  127. @Anon
    I haven't read those links but I am addressing my reply to you because I suggested on an earlier thread that you ought to concede that Israel made a delibrrate attack on the Liberty but I am not 100 per cent convinced that it was an Israeli government decision at the highest level. That is because, for all the enthusiasm shown on UR there is very little reliable evidence about what happened and it occurs to me to try out a few thoughts.

    1. None of the motives suggested are so compelling that it has to be accepted. It follows that all of the suggested motives may be wrong and we therefore have to rely on objective facts and the inability to rule out certain motives;
    2. Some of the theories depend on Liberty being destroyed without evidence left behind or broadcast of how it happened. That's problematic if one concedes how well the IDF's professionals would understand how things go wrong in wars. The problem of credibility grows if you posit that a peripheral action like destroying the Liberty has to be 100 per cent perfect in destroying the ship and killing every las3t crew member before he can communicate with any outsider;
    3. Wouldn't someone say "it's a bit risky boss: some of our pilots are proud of being Yanks as well as Yids and then there are all those with Amrrican friends. Do you think they')l all follow through and then do we trust them never to blab?"
    4. Then there is the simple fact that it would have been easy to sink Liberty on the first sighting with a couple of torpedoes and a couple of heavy bombs (and remember that we aren't supposing that any serious reconnaissance is needed though one can do the never-falsified's trick of imagining that they had to check that jamming was working or....). They didn't so evidently there was some sort of stuff up involved.
    5. Finally, for the moment, there is no reason to believe that seeing the American flag would make the Israelis certain it was a US ship. The number of flights reported early on are consistent with time being taken to clear up uncertainty. What if the really big stuff up qas the failure of communications between the Israeli navy and the UD navy to confirm that it was a US ship? There are enough truly horrifying examples of friendly fire catsstrophes to make that seem plausible who doesn't gape in awe at the competence of military people in action or cerebration.

    Of course the attacks were deliberate on the part of one pr more Israelis. And that is consistent with the later attempts to wrap it all up with a modest compensation payment.

    As for the Johnson Administration and Congress's reluctance to make a big deal of it at the time, several factors have been mentioned which could have made silence to be preferable to full exposure of perhaps the US navy and Israel, especially if it wasn't possible or wasn't prudent to expose the deliberation of high Israeli givernment ministers in planning the attack. I would find it easy to believe that, during the Vietnam War embarrassing the armed forces was regarded as best avoided.

    But yes PG and all. It is surely time to declassify everything.

    The whole “false flag” thing should be obviously wrong to you all. There is no way Israel ever could have framed Egypt for an attack on a US ship because, like Israel, like every other country then and now, nobody has any incentive to deliberately attack a US ship. Moreover, by the time of the attack, Israel had already won the war, and the USA was already quietly supporting Israel.

    And as Dave Pinsen pointed out, if Israel had intended to sink the Liberty, it would have done so quite easily.

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    • Replies: @Anon
    I'm not disagreeing with you so much as trying to insist on rigour. Your point about incentives to attack a US ship is expressed too loosely and begs the question.

    You need to argue IMO that Israel couldn't have been engaging in a false flag operation because there was no way that it was going to be reported during the attack or afterwards that Liberty was being/had been attacked by Egyptian aircraft and, on the fantastic assumption that Liberty was quickly sunk and all on board killed, that this was going to be attributed to the Egyptians despite the fact that it was day three of the Six Day War and the Egyptian air force had been crippled on day 1.

    The more I think about the deeply flawed case on UR threads for a high level plot to destroy the Liberty and everyone on it the more unlikely it seems. If I was looking for a high level Israeli reason for putting it out of action I would look to something to do with the attack on the Golan Heights but I don't see many of the enthusiasts on this thread wanting to look at that because they assume that Johnson and Macnamara are already in on the Israeli's war plan. And how it would help the Israeli takeover and retention of the Golan Heights is hard to see.

    I am increasingly of the view that the Sixth Fleet denial to the Israelis that there was a US navy ship in the vicinity as alleged by one commenter, if true, could be critical to explaining most significant unknowns, not least what Johnson and Macnamara didn't do or say.
    , @Rurik

    if Israel had intended to sink the Liberty, it would have done so quite easily.
     
    they tried, and the proof is they machine gunned the life boats, obviously intending for no Americans to survive.

    the sheer barrage of weapons used from both sea and air attest to Israel's intention to sink the ship with all hands. That they were incompetent, and the Americans heroic, seems perfectly probable, all things considered.
    , @JoaoAlfaiate
    "...if Israel had intended to sink the Liberty, it would have done so quite easily."

    Hogwash.

    The torpedo an Israeli PT boat fired clearly shows their intent was to sink the USS Liberty.
  128. Anon says:     Show CommentNext New Comment
    @Incitatus

    “Are you guys going to allow it [9/11] to become another USS Liberty?”
    “I wonder; the USS Liberty was attacked many years before I was even born…”
    “Where these planes came from, probably some secret CIA base.”

     
    Ah, 9/11. The catnip of conspirator theorists. Never mind the USS Liberty. Meow!

    L.K, jilles, Rurik,

    You guys missed your own 9/11 boat. The best theory (my favorite):

    “Anyone who views the contemporaneous footage can see for himself that there were no “collapses” of skyscrapers on 9/11. WTC 1 and 2 did not “collapse”, nor were they demolished in a conventional manner. They were disintegrated, with most of their steel and concrete cores being converted to fine dust. The destruction of WTC 1 and 2 (not to mention the core of WTC6) was not due to jet fuel, airliner impacts, or conventional demolition materials. The Twin Towers were almost certainly brought down by small – or perhaps micro – nuclear weapons. No other scenario is even possible, given that the events had all the signatures of nuclear detonations...”
    -Mulegino1 #356 27oct16
    http://www.unz.com/article/911-truth/#new_comments
     
    Please confer. Can you get your act together? How’s a reader to know who to blame?

    Have any of you - in reality, not on a computer screen - actually demolished or built a building? Dumb question.

    Tell us the truth. Do you speak daily with Captain James Kirk and First Officer Spock? What do they tell you? 9/11 was a conspiracy?

    Pray to the Machine to ensure the continuity of electrical power for your illusions (see E. M. Forester ‘The Machine Stops’).

    In future please remember Mulegino1’s “small – or perhaps micro – nuclear weapons”. No reason to reinvent your 9/11 wheel.

    Mulegino1 - are you out there? Salute!

    ps - don’t worry, I’m a troll (i.e. burdened with real world experience, old enough to remember USS Liberty first hand).

    You are being very naughty. With all the maddies for some reason gathered to froth on this thread a few vital fuses may be blown if too much stimulus is applied.

    Now that you are hete I would be pleased if you would turn your sane and analytical mind to #31 and #43.

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    • Replies: @Incitatus
    Anon,

    Not necessarily sane or analytical, but here goes:

    “...I am not...convinced that it [attack on the Liberty] was an Israeli...decision at the highest level...”

    We’re all guessing. Hard to believe the coordination of air force and navy wouldn’t rise to the highest IDF level, if not higher. Israel takes pride in competence, and there’s no reason to discount them. At the same time it's doubtful they’d underestimate the force necessary to kill all witnesses and sink the ship if that was their goal. Could have been (they tried hard enough). Most concede the attack deliberate. Was it mistaken identity? That’s the question.

    “None of the motives suggested are so compelling...to be accepted...”

    Agreed. Conspiracies seem far fetched. Nuking Cairo? False flags? Israeli soldiers sworn to secrecy? LBJ or Macnamara planning involvement? Utter nonsense (my opinion).

    That said, this isn’t my first USS Liberty rodeo: http://www.unz.com/pgiraldi/aipac-is-back-in-town/#new_comments
    post #225, #250, #268, #292, #316 (31 Mar - 4 Apr 2017)

    As stated there, ‘Attack on the Liberty’ and James Bamford’s ‘The Cover-Up’ (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2001/aug/08/israel) differ significantly from the official US and Israeli accounts. Some of Bamford’s points:

    IDF motive: To attack and sink an Egyptian destroyer steaming at 30 knots after it shelled El Arish.
    Bamford: Liberty was easily distinguished from a warship, lacked heavy guns and sprouted spy antenna masts. It was clearly marked (Latin markings, ensigns - sailors hoisted a second large ensign during the attack). It was steaming at 5 knots (top speed well below 30 knots). IDF surveilled Liberty regularly for over six hours prior to the attack, at one point with friendly acknowledgment. Crewman Larry Weaver: “I was actually able to wave to the co-pilot. He waved back and actually smiled at me - I could see him that well. There's no question about it. They had seen the ship's markings and the American flag.”

    IDF explanation: mistaken identity.
    Bamford: IDF prolonged close surveillance (including friendly acknowledgment), followed by communication jamming, cannon fire, machine guns, rockets, napalm, 1000-lb bombs, torpedoes, and strafing life rafts. An attack thus varied and sustained seems unlikely mistaken or authored by mistaken judgment on behalf of the Israeli commanders on site (let alone further up the chain).

    Was Israel truly regretful? Let Bamford tell it:

    “In the days following the attack, the Israeli government gave the US government a classified report that attempted to justify the claim that the attack was a mistake. On the basis of that same report, an Israeli court of inquiry completely exonerated the government and all those involved. No one was ever court-martialled, reduced in rank or even reprimanded. On the contrary, Israel chose instead to honour motor torpedo boat 203, which fired the deadly torpedo at the Liberty. The ship's wheel and bell were placed on prominent display at the naval museum, among the maritime artefacts of which the Israeli navy was most proud.”

    Israel claims a grievous mistake, fails to find any fault, and enshrines torpedo boat 203 as heroic? Comments Anon?

    War unleashed is rarely rational. The ‘67 War was an audacious gamble for nascent Israel. Raw memories of Ike’s humbling restraint in Suez ‘56 may have been fresh. Why tolerate loose ends that risk defeat? Trust no one. Better to eliminate all unknowns, anything that imperils success. The universal war code: do all that’s necessary to win. Eliminate all unknowns. The rest will sort itself out. And so they did (my uneducated guess).

    “surely [it’s] time to declassify everything.”

    Couldn’t agree more.
  129. @Anonymous
    The difference between Pres Eisenhower 1956 and LBJ 1967 is that Eisenhower was independent of Jewish power. LBJ was totally owned by Jews in both foreign policy and domestic policy( 1965 immigration act, 1968 affirmative action act, EEOC, funding all sorts of black militant war on poverty programs, on and on).

    I don't believe in any of the who killed JFK conspiracy theories, but in terms of who benefits, LBJs anti White domestic policies fulfilled the dreams of every NAACP Jew since 1910.

    I don’t believe in any of the who killed JFK conspiracy theories, …

    So Jack is still alive?

    I take it you also would not believe “in any of the who killed Caesar conspiracy theories …” so Caesar too is still alive.

    Do conspiracies ever happen in your world? Or would all the conspirators have to sign a notarized certificate before the rest of us are allowed to say that there is a conspiracy?

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    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Oh please, you're just trying to start a fight. How could you possibly infer from my post that I believe Kennedy was not killed? There are at least 15 very plausible theories.

    One theory is that LBJ had Kennedy killed. Commentors on the USS Libeety thread had information I didn't know before. I always assumed the Israelis just attacked the Liberty on their own.

    When the Liberty managed to alert the American base in Spain American Jews were on hand in Washington to order Macnanara to send the American planes back.

    From this thread I learned that LBJ, the Krims and Macnamara conspired with the Israelis to destroy Egypt before the 1967 war began.
    That information makes the LBJ and the Israelis killed Kennedy very plausible. That's what I wrote, not that Kennedy was not killed.

    All the who killed Kennedy theories are very plausible. The all have excellent motives. All have thousands of pages of proofs. They all contradict each other.

    You need to read posts instead of jumping on a couple words to start a fight.

    After I read Assault on the Liberty I bought 12 copies and donated them to college libraries in my area. I hoped that young people would read it. It wasn't much, but it's more useful than nitpicking and starting fights while keyboard warrioring.

  130. @Anonymous
    The difference between Pres Eisenhower 1956 and LBJ 1967 is that Eisenhower was independent of Jewish power. LBJ was totally owned by Jews in both foreign policy and domestic policy( 1965 immigration act, 1968 affirmative action act, EEOC, funding all sorts of black militant war on poverty programs, on and on).

    I don't believe in any of the who killed JFK conspiracy theories, but in terms of who benefits, LBJs anti White domestic policies fulfilled the dreams of every NAACP Jew since 1910.

    Whitewash shows clearly that it was impossible that Oswald was the only one who shot.
    Kennedy was killed two weeks after he threatened Israel with not giving them weapons any more if they continued developing their atomic bomb.

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    • Replies: @ANON
    You are soundung madder. Take your meds and sit down calmly and think what you sound like when you connect a(n alleged) unconsummated threat to Israel about arms supply (as if the Israelis didn't have French and other alternative sources of supply!) to a plot conceived and executed within two weeks to kill the President of the United States in Dallas by sniper fire. No diplimatic alternatives apparently, no revving up big Demicratic donors... if you've read all these books you cite its a pity you haven't also learned to think critically.
    , @Anonymous
    I've been to Dallas and took the tour of the Book Depository building. I looked through the window at exactly where Kennedy was shot. I've only hunted and shot rifles a little bit. But even I, who still flinches when the rifle bangs into my shoulder could have made the shot especially with the rifle propped up on a stack of cartons as Oswald did. It's only about 50 feet from the window to where the car was.

    For every theory about the Kennedy killing there is another theory contradicting the first theory.
  131. @Anonymous
    The difference between Pres Eisenhower 1956 and LBJ 1967 is that Eisenhower was independent of Jewish power. LBJ was totally owned by Jews in both foreign policy and domestic policy( 1965 immigration act, 1968 affirmative action act, EEOC, funding all sorts of black militant war on poverty programs, on and on).

    I don't believe in any of the who killed JFK conspiracy theories, but in terms of who benefits, LBJs anti White domestic policies fulfilled the dreams of every NAACP Jew since 1910.

    Its is asserted that Eisenhower was a jew.
    How he hated Germans can be read in
    James Bacque, ´Der geplante Tod, Deutsche Kriegsgefangene in amerikanischen und französischen Lagern 1945 – 1946, Frankfurt/M, 1989, 1994 (Other losses, Toronto, 1989).
    Eisenhower writes in a letter “we should have killed more Germans”.

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    • Replies: @Anonymous
    What does Eisenhower's alleged Jewish ancestry and hatred of Germans have to do with Eisenhower's position on the attempted 1956 attempted Suez Canal takeover?

    Absolutely nothing

    So why did you post it except to show off your so called knowledge of Eisenhower? Having English relatives and having lived in Germany I know that "educated" Europeans consider all Americans to be ignorant morons from Hillbilly Holler.
  132. @The Alarmist
    Not to diminish the lives lost in the Liberty attack, but the same President and administration sacrificed the USS Pueblo six months later. What was that about? Did Johnson have it in for military arm of the intel community?

    Why Pueblo? I had been a sigint ship equipped with brand new life recording technics of the full radio frequency spectrum buildt by Hewlett Packard. It included advanced IT processing equipment with a large magnetic-core storage unit. Hewlett Packard equipped the Pueblo for a field test of its technology for a major Pentagon bid free of charge. The competitor Raytheon organised a false flag to kill the Hewlett Packard bid (likely in cooperation with the US deep state which used the incident to trigger the Xmas bombings on North Vietnam) and subsequently to take over HP after the loss of this huge investment.

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    • Replies: @Eagle Eye
    Interesting background info re HP and USS Pueblo - thank you.

    However, the USS Pueblo was seized by North Korea, not North Vietnam.
    , @The Alarmist
    Too bad we didn't have Trump + Twitter in the 1960's, eh?

    "Lyin' Lyndon, too beholden to Tel Aviv to care for the victims of the Liberty. Such a shame!"

    "Lyin' Lyndon lets a beautiful ship with our wonderful boys fall to the Norks. Disgrace!"
  133. Today the US is completely SERVILE to the Zionist state following in the footsteps of McCain.

    Shameful.

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  134. @Anonymous
    The difference between Pres Eisenhower 1956 and LBJ 1967 is that Eisenhower was independent of Jewish power. LBJ was totally owned by Jews in both foreign policy and domestic policy( 1965 immigration act, 1968 affirmative action act, EEOC, funding all sorts of black militant war on poverty programs, on and on).

    I don't believe in any of the who killed JFK conspiracy theories, but in terms of who benefits, LBJs anti White domestic policies fulfilled the dreams of every NAACP Jew since 1910.

    I think LBJ was more than owned given his ancestry and his very early support and actions going back to Leo Frank and going into the 30s with his support for Jewish immigration. According to historian James M. Smallwood, Congressman Johnson used legal and sometimes illegal methods to smuggle ‘hundreds of Jews into Texas, using Galveston as the entry port. Enough money could buy false passports and fake visas in Cuba, Mexico and other Latin American countries . . . Johnson smuggled boatloads and planeloads of Jews into Texas. He hid them in the Texas National Youth Administration . . . Johnson saved at least four or five hundred Jews, possibly more.’

    During World War II Johnson attended a small Austin gathering to sell $65,000 in war bonds. According to Gomolak, Johnson and a Jewish friend called Novy then raised a very ‘substantial sum for arms for Jewish underground fighters in Palestine.’ One source cited by the historian reports that ‘Novy and Johnson had been secretly shipping heavy crates labeled ‘Texas Grapefruit’ – but containing arms – to Jewish underground ‘freedom fighters’ in Palestine.’

    For a description of LBJ’s backing for Israel, see Neff’s, ‘LBJ Was First to Align US with Israel’s Policies’, in the Washington Report on Middle East, Nov-Dec 1996 p. 96. His affinity for Israel is movingly described by the Senior Editor of the Jewish Press in his article ‘LBJ and Israel’, 7 Sept 2002.

    LBJ’s early backing for Israel can be found in the Senate Records, 1957-58, the Eisenhower Library and LBJ’s own Presidential Library. After the 1956 Suez debacle, Israel clung on to Gaza and Aquaba, despite demands from both the US and UN to quit. By the spring of 1957, UN Secretary General Dag Hammarskjöld was actively promoting UN sanctions against Israel as an aggressor nation and in defiance of UN Resolutions.

    The Israeli plan was scuppered in the US mainly by Senate Leader LBJ, who urged the State Dept. not to support sanctions ‘against a small country like Israel’ and rallied support in the Senate to block any legislation. (See New York Times of 20 February 1957 and, perhaps significantly, Louis Bloomfield’s monograph, ‘Egypt, Israel and the Gulf of Aquaba’.)

    Like JFK, his predecessor President Eisenhower was no advocate of ‘Israel, Right or Wrong’. LBJ and Eisenhower locked horns over Israel when Ike became heavily involved with the crisis over Israeli attempts to annex a Palestinian area around Banat Ya’qub in 1953 in order to divert water from the River Jordan. America stepped in to broker a deal. When the UN observers realised that the Israelis were ignoring their part of the agreement, Ike moved swiftly to revoke tax-deductible status of Jewish-Americans to Zionist organisations in order to force Israel to honour its obligations.

    Despite enormous pressure from US Jewish lobby groups, LBJ himself and claims that his policies were ‘anti-Semitic’, Eisenhower stood firm. When the Israeli government realised that their money supply really was going to dry up, they backed down and Ike restored aid. Full accounts are in the LBJ Library Archive and – from a more objective viewpoint – in the ‘jfk montreal’ site.

    Just one month after succeeding Kennedy, LBJ attended the December 1963 dedication of the Agudas Achim Synagogue in Austin. Novy opened the ceremony by saying Johnson, ‘We can’t thank him enough for all those Jews he got out of Germany during the days of Hitler.’

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    • Replies: @Anon
    You undermine a plausible account of facts which suggest that Johnson was far from being an anti-Semite (for what that's worth in tbe USS Liberty context) by a ridicukous assertion or suggestion that he was of politically signifixant (or indeed any significant) Jewish ancestry.

    Unlike a lot of politicians with some known Jewish ancestry in Anglophone countries who are /were by no means special friends of Isrsel or Jews it seems tbat LBJ behaved in character and as a person in helping to save European Jews seeking asylum in Texas in the late 30s. That is what one would expect of a clever increasingly professional politician like Johnson seeking to build coalitions of supporters, especially those connected to money and activism, and is consistent with his growing up amongst the poor and having sympafhy for the underdog. Also I recall a Houston based surgeon expressing enthusiasm for Mexican immigrants to offset the blacks. You could factor that kind of thinking into the young Democrat politician's calculations, especislly if he was not a natural strong ally of the strict segregationists and wanted less hidebound allies.

  135. @Eagle Eye
    You really don't get it, do you?

    Let me spell it out to you: Lyndon B. Johnson wanted a war - any war - for fun and profit.

    It is absurd to imagine that the president of the most powerful nation on earth in 1967 would take orders from a barely half-developed country in the Eastern Mediterranean.

    Most likely, LBJ expressly ordered Israel to attack the USS Liberty to give himself an excuse to bomb Cairo. Quite possibly, his orders to bomb Cairo were defied by senior military or civilian leaders afraid of provoking WW III, thus necessitating an impromptu cover-up.

    Put yourself in the shoes of the Israeli leadership in 1967 - why would they risk massively antagonizing the U.S. in the middle of a risky war? The only reasonable explanations are:

    (1) Israel had been ordered by LBJ to sink the USS Liberty (see above). This kind of order would have to have come from LBJ personally, not McNamara, for the Israelis to take on the risk. (Remember the U.S. betrayal of irregular forces at the Bay of Pigs was a recent memory.)

    (2) The USS Liberty itself was a major problem for Israel, e.g. because it was passing key intelligence to Egypt and the Arabs.

    Given the extensive hush-up operations in the U.S. after the fact, (1) seems much more likely. This would also explain why senior U.S. brass went into overdrive concocting bizarre but coordinated stories to deflect attention from their own shameful involvement in the murder of Americans.

    It is absurd to imagine that the president of the most powerful nation on earth in 1967 would take orders from a barely half-developed country in the Eastern Mediterranean.

    “Were going to be screening the Zapruder film for you after tonight dinner again Mr President”.

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    • Replies: @Uebersetzer
    A few years earlier LBJ had threatened the Greek ambassador after some dispute, telling him the USA was a giant and Greece was nothing and could be crushed if the USA wished. Indeed, a short time before the Liberty incident there was a military coup in Greece and the USA probably set it in motion.
    I don't think the equivalents of AIPAC had a lock on processes in the USA in 1967, whatever may have been the case later.
  136. @Bragadocious
    I looked at the casualty list and found a Toth and a Mendle, both of which can be Jewish names....or not. I wonder how the Jews on board felt about this attack. Given the actions of LBJ, it seems the Jew card has definite credit limits -- when you're going against the "Jewish State."

    Toth is a very common Hungarian surname, it actually means “Slovak”. Of course can be a jewish person, but not a typical jewish surname.

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  137. @Incitatus

    “Are you guys going to allow it [9/11] to become another USS Liberty?”
    “I wonder; the USS Liberty was attacked many years before I was even born…”
    “Where these planes came from, probably some secret CIA base.”

     
    Ah, 9/11. The catnip of conspirator theorists. Never mind the USS Liberty. Meow!

    L.K, jilles, Rurik,

    You guys missed your own 9/11 boat. The best theory (my favorite):

    “Anyone who views the contemporaneous footage can see for himself that there were no “collapses” of skyscrapers on 9/11. WTC 1 and 2 did not “collapse”, nor were they demolished in a conventional manner. They were disintegrated, with most of their steel and concrete cores being converted to fine dust. The destruction of WTC 1 and 2 (not to mention the core of WTC6) was not due to jet fuel, airliner impacts, or conventional demolition materials. The Twin Towers were almost certainly brought down by small – or perhaps micro – nuclear weapons. No other scenario is even possible, given that the events had all the signatures of nuclear detonations...”
    -Mulegino1 #356 27oct16
    http://www.unz.com/article/911-truth/#new_comments
     
    Please confer. Can you get your act together? How’s a reader to know who to blame?

    Have any of you - in reality, not on a computer screen - actually demolished or built a building? Dumb question.

    Tell us the truth. Do you speak daily with Captain James Kirk and First Officer Spock? What do they tell you? 9/11 was a conspiracy?

    Pray to the Machine to ensure the continuity of electrical power for your illusions (see E. M. Forester ‘The Machine Stops’).

    In future please remember Mulegino1’s “small – or perhaps micro – nuclear weapons”. No reason to reinvent your 9/11 wheel.

    Mulegino1 - are you out there? Salute!

    ps - don’t worry, I’m a troll (i.e. burdened with real world experience, old enough to remember USS Liberty first hand).

    The Liberty incident is just a modern day hook. It can take a while to wade through some of these.

    BTW, I answered my last question to you and I was not at all pleased with the answer. I have decided to assert my rights as a normal human being and not think about the implications.

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  138. @anon
    What percentage of your average day do you spend obsessing over jews ?
    What does your family think about your obsession ? Answer honestly please.

    What percentage of your average day do you spend obsessing over jews ?

    Sorry, anon. What we’re obsessing about is power. And you have to admit organized Jewry wield tremendous power. Don’t you recall how many standing ovations King Bibi was treated to by the bought and paid for members of Congress? Don’t you recall how upset they were when Rand Paul’s applause was deemed less than enthusiastic? Informed people can’t help but notice who has disproportionate power and it is only to be expected that they feel obliged to point that out.

    Trust this answers your question.

    Read More
    • Agree: Rurik
    • Replies: @anon
    No you are obsessed with jews , but apparently you are ashamed of this fact and need to make excuses. sad . very sad. very very sad. You never answered if you espouse your obsession with jews outside of your posting career , in real life. If so what does your family think of your obsession.
    , @alexander
    You raise a very profound point, Geo.

    Why is there an urgent NEED for a "special prosecutor" to investigate the influence of a foreign power on our political system ,when it 's RUSSIA, ......but No NEED whatsoever , when its King BIBI and Israel?

    Have any of our MSM outlets ever even broached this subject ?

    If not , why not ?

    Is the issue of "influence peddling" only germane when "some countries" are influential...but not OTHERS ?


    Who made THIS the law of the land?..Who says it's "just" ?.....and why ?
  139. Anon says:     Show CommentNext New Comment
    @Lot
    The whole "false flag" thing should be obviously wrong to you all. There is no way Israel ever could have framed Egypt for an attack on a US ship because, like Israel, like every other country then and now, nobody has any incentive to deliberately attack a US ship. Moreover, by the time of the attack, Israel had already won the war, and the USA was already quietly supporting Israel.

    And as Dave Pinsen pointed out, if Israel had intended to sink the Liberty, it would have done so quite easily.

    I’m not disagreeing with you so much as trying to insist on rigour. Your point about incentives to attack a US ship is expressed too loosely and begs the question.

    You need to argue IMO that Israel couldn’t have been engaging in a false flag operation because there was no way that it was going to be reported during the attack or afterwards that Liberty was being/had been attacked by Egyptian aircraft and, on the fantastic assumption that Liberty was quickly sunk and all on board killed, that this was going to be attributed to the Egyptians despite the fact that it was day three of the Six Day War and the Egyptian air force had been crippled on day 1.

    The more I think about the deeply flawed case on UR threads for a high level plot to destroy the Liberty and everyone on it the more unlikely it seems. If I was looking for a high level Israeli reason for putting it out of action I would look to something to do with the attack on the Golan Heights but I don’t see many of the enthusiasts on this thread wanting to look at that because they assume that Johnson and Macnamara are already in on the Israeli’s war plan. And how it would help the Israeli takeover and retention of the Golan Heights is hard to see.

    I am increasingly of the view that the Sixth Fleet denial to the Israelis that there was a US navy ship in the vicinity as alleged by one commenter, if true, could be critical to explaining most significant unknowns, not least what Johnson and Macnamara didn’t do or say.

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    • Replies: @Lot
    Exactly. Blowing up a subway is a plausible false flag. Egypt deciding to just randomly destroy a US ship makes no sense. The US saved Egypt in the Suez Crisis. It would never randomly start a war. The fact it had its airforce mostly destroyed and the rest trying to run to safety or used defensively is on top of that.
  140. Anon says:     Show CommentNext New Comment
    @LondonBob
    I think LBJ was more than owned given his ancestry and his very early support and actions going back to Leo Frank and going into the 30s with his support for Jewish immigration. According to historian James M. Smallwood, Congressman Johnson used legal and sometimes illegal methods to smuggle ‘hundreds of Jews into Texas, using Galveston as the entry port. Enough money could buy false passports and fake visas in Cuba, Mexico and other Latin American countries . . . Johnson smuggled boatloads and planeloads of Jews into Texas. He hid them in the Texas National Youth Administration . . . Johnson saved at least four or five hundred Jews, possibly more.’

    During World War II Johnson attended a small Austin gathering to sell $65,000 in war bonds. According to Gomolak, Johnson and a Jewish friend called Novy then raised a very ‘substantial sum for arms for Jewish underground fighters in Palestine.’ One source cited by the historian reports that ‘Novy and Johnson had been secretly shipping heavy crates labeled ‘Texas Grapefruit’ – but containing arms – to Jewish underground ‘freedom fighters’ in Palestine.’

    For a description of LBJ’s backing for Israel, see Neff’s, ‘LBJ Was First to Align US with Israel’s Policies’, in the Washington Report on Middle East, Nov-Dec 1996 p. 96. His affinity for Israel is movingly described by the Senior Editor of the Jewish Press in his article ‘LBJ and Israel’, 7 Sept 2002.

    LBJ’s early backing for Israel can be found in the Senate Records, 1957-58, the Eisenhower Library and LBJ’s own Presidential Library. After the 1956 Suez debacle, Israel clung on to Gaza and Aquaba, despite demands from both the US and UN to quit. By the spring of 1957, UN Secretary General Dag Hammarskjöld was actively promoting UN sanctions against Israel as an aggressor nation and in defiance of UN Resolutions.

    The Israeli plan was scuppered in the US mainly by Senate Leader LBJ, who urged the State Dept. not to support sanctions ‘against a small country like Israel’ and rallied support in the Senate to block any legislation. (See New York Times of 20 February 1957 and, perhaps significantly, Louis Bloomfield’s monograph, ‘Egypt, Israel and the Gulf of Aquaba’.)

    Like JFK, his predecessor President Eisenhower was no advocate of ‘Israel, Right or Wrong’. LBJ and Eisenhower locked horns over Israel when Ike became heavily involved with the crisis over Israeli attempts to annex a Palestinian area around Banat Ya’qub in 1953 in order to divert water from the River Jordan. America stepped in to broker a deal. When the UN observers realised that the Israelis were ignoring their part of the agreement, Ike moved swiftly to revoke tax-deductible status of Jewish-Americans to Zionist organisations in order to force Israel to honour its obligations.

    Despite enormous pressure from US Jewish lobby groups, LBJ himself and claims that his policies were ‘anti-Semitic’, Eisenhower stood firm. When the Israeli government realised that their money supply really was going to dry up, they backed down and Ike restored aid. Full accounts are in the LBJ Library Archive and – from a more objective viewpoint – in the ‘jfk montreal’ site.

    Just one month after succeeding Kennedy, LBJ attended the December 1963 dedication of the Agudas Achim Synagogue in Austin. Novy opened the ceremony by saying Johnson, ‘We can’t thank him enough for all those Jews he got out of Germany during the days of Hitler.’

    You undermine a plausible account of facts which suggest that Johnson was far from being an anti-Semite (for what that’s worth in tbe USS Liberty context) by a ridicukous assertion or suggestion that he was of politically signifixant (or indeed any significant) Jewish ancestry.

    Unlike a lot of politicians with some known Jewish ancestry in Anglophone countries who are /were by no means special friends of Isrsel or Jews it seems tbat LBJ behaved in character and as a person in helping to save European Jews seeking asylum in Texas in the late 30s. That is what one would expect of a clever increasingly professional politician like Johnson seeking to build coalitions of supporters, especially those connected to money and activism, and is consistent with his growing up amongst the poor and having sympafhy for the underdog. Also I recall a Houston based surgeon expressing enthusiasm for Mexican immigrants to offset the blacks. You could factor that kind of thinking into the young Democrat politician’s calculations, especislly if he was not a natural strong ally of the strict segregationists and wanted less hidebound allies.

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  141. @Thirdeye
    Not that effective or brilliant. The fixation on battleship row was sophomoric. According to Admiral Nimitz, taking out the shore support facilities would have had a much greater impact on the US ability to wage war in the Pacific, forcing the US fleet to base its operations out of San Diego. That would have made it virtually impossible to project US power into the western Pacific during the crucial time in which the battles of the Coral Sea, Midway, and Guadalcanal took place.
    The Japanese also had an unrealized opportunity to seize Oahu because the land forces defending it were weak. As it was, most of the damaged ships were salvaged after sitting in the mud and they were facing obsolescence as first line assets with the battleship and carrier building program then underway.

    You have a good point, but the big surprise in that surprise attack (preceded by a declaration of war) was the absence of carriers.

    The fleet aviation did not have the capacity to break up wharves and so on.

    The target had been ships, and the more decisive of the USN ones were mysteriously in a Pacific gyre, doing nothing.

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  142. @Thirdeye
    Not that effective or brilliant. The fixation on battleship row was sophomoric. According to Admiral Nimitz, taking out the shore support facilities would have had a much greater impact on the US ability to wage war in the Pacific, forcing the US fleet to base its operations out of San Diego. That would have made it virtually impossible to project US power into the western Pacific during the crucial time in which the battles of the Coral Sea, Midway, and Guadalcanal took place.
    The Japanese also had an unrealized opportunity to seize Oahu because the land forces defending it were weak. As it was, most of the damaged ships were salvaged after sitting in the mud and they were facing obsolescence as first line assets with the battleship and carrier building program then underway.

    You have a good point, but the big surprise in that surprise attack (preceded by a declaration of war) was the absence of carriers.

    The fleet aviation did not have the capacity to break up wharves and so on.

    The target had been ships, and the more decisive of the USN ones were mysteriously in a Pacific gyre, doing nothing.

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  143. ANON says:     Show CommentNext New Comment
    @jilles dykstra
    Whitewash shows clearly that it was impossible that Oswald was the only one who shot.
    Kennedy was killed two weeks after he threatened Israel with not giving them weapons any more if they continued developing their atomic bomb.

    You are soundung madder. Take your meds and sit down calmly and think what you sound like when you connect a(n alleged) unconsummated threat to Israel about arms supply (as if the Israelis didn’t have French and other alternative sources of supply!) to a plot conceived and executed within two weeks to kill the President of the United States in Dallas by sniper fire. No diplimatic alternatives apparently, no revving up big Demicratic donors… if you’ve read all these books you cite its a pity you haven’t also learned to think critically.

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  144. @Lot
    The whole "false flag" thing should be obviously wrong to you all. There is no way Israel ever could have framed Egypt for an attack on a US ship because, like Israel, like every other country then and now, nobody has any incentive to deliberately attack a US ship. Moreover, by the time of the attack, Israel had already won the war, and the USA was already quietly supporting Israel.

    And as Dave Pinsen pointed out, if Israel had intended to sink the Liberty, it would have done so quite easily.

    if Israel had intended to sink the Liberty, it would have done so quite easily.

    they tried, and the proof is they machine gunned the life boats, obviously intending for no Americans to survive.

    the sheer barrage of weapons used from both sea and air attest to Israel’s intention to sink the ship with all hands. That they were incompetent, and the Americans heroic, seems perfectly probable, all things considered.

    Read More
    • Replies: @L.K
    Hey Rurik,

    One has to excuse 'lot', as this insect is one of the most pathetic zionist liars commenting here.
    'Lot' of sad little lies....
    Though the village Idiot who takes the cake is the mcohen dude! What an ass-clown!
    And what is it with all these anon/Anon/etc zio trolls?
    Can't these scumbags at least pick a handle!? Well... I guess it's all part of their cowardly little games, as another poster noted.

    As for 9-11, given the cowardice of those few zamericans who know better, to confront the manufactured Zio narrative, there is a good chance it'll become another USS Liberty.

    Bollyn is a rarity, a real hero, and he has paid a heavy price for it.


    I have been portrayed as an anti-Semitic writer by the leading media networks simply because I dare to investigate the evidence of Israeli involvement in the terror attacks.

    The level of the personal attacks against me increased dramatically in August 2006, when a police assault by three unidentified heavily-armed men resulted in my right elbow being fractured and my being unjustifiably shocked with 50,000 volts from a police device known as a TASER. This outrageous and illegal assault occurred at my home in front of my wife and eight-year-old daughter.

    I was taken to jail and subsequently charged by the police with resisting arrest and aggravated assault, both misdemeanor charges.[...]
    In early June 2007, I was found guilty of both misdemeanors after a seriously flawed four-day trial in which the police were allowed to destroy the video evidence and then openly lied on the stand. My expert witness and evidence were not allowed to be presented by the Cook County judge, Hyman Riebman, a Zionist Jew.

     

    Interview: Sean Stone and Christopher Bollyn on 9/11, Israel & the Mossad
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_0p0OIHZ-RI
    , @Lot
    So Israel, able to defeat multiple Arab armies and airforces in a matter of days, was only able to kill about 1/5 of the people on an unarmed ship?

    This degree of paranoid retardation is kind of fascinating.
  145. Reality.Israel bombed “Liberty” intentionally.Reality. America knows it.Reality.America can not and will not do any thing about it.
    Reality.America is a colony of Israel.Reality.America acquiesces to this reality. Reality.American law makers are all Israeli agents and tools.Reality.Americans in the know are aware of it.Others are differentiate. Those who know won’t raise their voice for fear of stigmatised and ostracised and their careers and life destroyed by the Zionist lobby while this cabal is looting America left right and center.
    Reality. America once a powerful nation has lost its identity.America’s identity is subsumed with in that of Israel.Even if they realise it Americans can do nothing about it.

    If any one wants what the lobby has been planing how to suck off the last drop of blood from America then betray read” Questions of Survival” Haaretz June 22/23 2006.It is only for information, because America can not prevent this treachery.
    It is very unlikely that this comment will be published.

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  146. anon says:     Show CommentNext New Comment
    @geokat62

    What percentage of your average day do you spend obsessing over jews ?
     
    Sorry, anon. What we're obsessing about is power. And you have to admit organized Jewry wield tremendous power. Don't you recall how many standing ovations King Bibi was treated to by the bought and paid for members of Congress? Don't you recall how upset they were when Rand Paul's applause was deemed less than enthusiastic? Informed people can't help but notice who has disproportionate power and it is only to be expected that they feel obliged to point that out.

    Trust this answers your question.

    No you are obsessed with jews , but apparently you are ashamed of this fact and need to make excuses. sad . very sad. very very sad. You never answered if you espouse your obsession with jews outside of your posting career , in real life. If so what does your family think of your obsession.

    Read More
    • Replies: @geokat62

    No you are obsessed with jews
     
    Ok, if you say so.
    , @chris

    No you are obsessed with jews

    You, yourself seem to be, buddy, calm down, there, Sigmund Fraud!

    As you know, the reason we're discussing the topic is because your team is now firmly in control and taking us all along to hell in a hand basket. We just want to offer you our seats.
  147. anon says:     Show CommentNext New Comment
    @MEexpert
    I didn't know Israel existed 100 years ago. The killings in Syria are being done by Israel and her collaborators (ISIS, Al-Qaeda, Al-Nusra, Jabaht-al-Islam and the USA). License-to-kill; how about Israel murdering people all around the world with impunity. Any killing done by these guys, anywhere in the world, should be blamed on Israel. Any war the US is involved in the Middle East is for the benefit of Israel and therefore any killings due to that war belong to Israel.

    The killings in Syria are being carried out by the minority alawite dictatorship (alawites are 10% of the Syrian poplulation) that siezed power in a coup and has never relinquished it. In one month in 1982 the Syrians killed more people than Israel has in the past 100 years. The killing done by Syria in the past 3 years is 20 X what Israel has done in 100 years.

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    • Replies: @RobinG
    Israel is 100% more responsible than Alawites for casualties in Syria. The shrill and desperate hasbara lies from Tel Aviv's troll army are getting more ugly and more absurd while Israel becomes weaker and more reviled.

    http://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/who-is-destroying-syria/
    Who Is Destroying Syria?
    The Arab Gulf States, Israel, and Turkey all prefer anarchy to Assad
    .
    By Philip Giraldi • May 3, 2017
  148. anon says:     Show CommentNext New Comment
    @L.K
    No, zionist shill, what is taking place in Syria is also a war for Israel;
    Zionist agents have been planning this proxy war, going back at least to 2006, according to Assange.
    ZUSA and its coalition of rogue states have been fighting a proxy war against Syria through the use of Salafist-Wahhabi extremists from all over the world, posing as Syrian "rebels".
    Veteran CIA Ray McGovern, during a cross talk interview on Syria, at 1:14; The Elephant in the room re the reason for ZUSA's regime change policies toward Syria: Israel
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xd5fuAUM2BM

    Former US marine Ken O'Keefe on RT about al-ciada und isis in Syria, etc
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c-sOnmsWivs

    Hey happy guy !!!!
    Actually the illegitimate Syrian Alawite government is killing its own Sunni population . Sure Sunni are coming to help their brothers , it is their obligation according to the holy Koran. You must be an Islamophobe.

    Syria is a dictatorship . The Alawite minority is 10% of population . Sunni is 70% of the population. The Assad dynasty seized power in a coup and has been a murderous dictatorship since.

    This Alawite murder machine is nothing new. Forget the half a million killed by Syria in the past few years. In October of 1982 alone the Syria dictatorship killed 30,000 people.

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    • Replies: @Ben_C
    anon,

    I assume this means that Assad is killing the majority of the Syrian Arab Army (SAA) and even his own wife as well?

    Your comments are so utterly absurd that I simply cannot respond further at this point...

  149. Anonymous says:     Show CommentNext New Comment
    @Eagle Eye

    I don’t believe in any of the who killed JFK conspiracy theories, ...
     
    So Jack is still alive?

    I take it you also would not believe "in any of the who killed Caesar conspiracy theories ..." so Caesar too is still alive.

    Do conspiracies ever happen in your world? Or would all the conspirators have to sign a notarized certificate before the rest of us are allowed to say that there is a conspiracy?

    Oh please, you’re just trying to start a fight. How could you possibly infer from my post that I believe Kennedy was not killed? There are at least 15 very plausible theories.

    One theory is that LBJ had Kennedy killed. Commentors on the USS Libeety thread had information I didn’t know before. I always assumed the Israelis just attacked the Liberty on their own.

    When the Liberty managed to alert the American base in Spain American Jews were on hand in Washington to order Macnanara to send the American planes back.

    From this thread I learned that LBJ, the Krims and Macnamara conspired with the Israelis to destroy Egypt before the 1967 war began.
    That information makes the LBJ and the Israelis killed Kennedy very plausible. That’s what I wrote, not that Kennedy was not killed.

    All the who killed Kennedy theories are very plausible. The all have excellent motives. All have thousands of pages of proofs. They all contradict each other.

    You need to read posts instead of jumping on a couple words to start a fight.

    After I read Assault on the Liberty I bought 12 copies and donated them to college libraries in my area. I hoped that young people would read it. It wasn’t much, but it’s more useful than nitpicking and starting fights while keyboard warrioring.

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  150. @anon
    No you are obsessed with jews , but apparently you are ashamed of this fact and need to make excuses. sad . very sad. very very sad. You never answered if you espouse your obsession with jews outside of your posting career , in real life. If so what does your family think of your obsession.

    No you are obsessed with jews

    Ok, if you say so.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Do NOT TRUST the zionist Jew 'anon'. He is a zionist troll posting comments in support of the jewish zionist mass murder and act as one of the zionist liar to fool dummies. He is a pro criminal and terrorist Israel. Don't engage with this zionist troll.

    Please read the following comments where he is defending a mass murderer zionist jew at Richard Falk website. Don't engage this zionist criminal supporter of the zionist crime against humanity.

    {
    anan
    June 6, 2017 at 10:01 am #


    Dear Prof Falk, I find your dialogue with Fred Skolnik to be very informative, nuanced, subtle and helpful. Both of you are highly intelligent and historically informed. Please don’t ban Fred Skolnik; but rather continue your public dialogue with him, so that the rest of us can learn from it.

    I haven’t finished reading the entire chain between both of you; but am enjoying what I have read so far.

    Your blog is one of the few places where informed substantive discussions about Palestine take place with people of different perspectives. Thanks for this.

    I don’t think it is helpful to call Fred “Hasbara”.

    Fred Skolnik, I don’t think that Prof Falk is an enemy of Israelis and Jews. There are very real enemies of Israelis and Jews, including Salafi Jihadi extremists who want to wipe Israelis and Jews from the face of the earth. There are soft Islamists who want to establish Sharia all over Israel and the world. There are BDS campaigners who want to end Israel. Prof Falk does not belong to one of these camps. I don’t think there is any edge to impugning his motives. We cannot always agree, but we can disagree agreeably and respectfully.


    https://richardfalk.wordpress.com/2017/06/06/fred-skolnik-and-the-politics-of-vilification/#comments

    You can’t really support Hamas; unless you are misinformed about them. It is understandable that so many people around the world, around the muslim world, around the Arab world, from Palestine and Israel are suspicious of Hamas.

    Israeli fear of Hamas is justified. The Egyptians have similarly attacked the Ikhwan in their own country; with broad popular support.}


    Expose the zionist mass murderers ALL OVER THE WORLD.
  151. @Lot
    The whole "false flag" thing should be obviously wrong to you all. There is no way Israel ever could have framed Egypt for an attack on a US ship because, like Israel, like every other country then and now, nobody has any incentive to deliberately attack a US ship. Moreover, by the time of the attack, Israel had already won the war, and the USA was already quietly supporting Israel.

    And as Dave Pinsen pointed out, if Israel had intended to sink the Liberty, it would have done so quite easily.

    “…if Israel had intended to sink the Liberty, it would have done so quite easily.”

    Hogwash.

    The torpedo an Israeli PT boat fired clearly shows their intent was to sink the USS Liberty.

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  152. @Dave Pinsen
    Now that's a new conspiracy theory.

    A few years ago, the Israeli pilot who led the attack on the USS Liberty was interviewed by the Jerusalem post. He said the sailers were lucky he didn't have bombs on board, otherwise he would have sunk it.

    That always seemed an odd aspect of the story to me. If it were a deliberate attack, why leave survivors? Why not sink it? This wasn't the Yamamoto, for heaven's sake. It probably wouldn't have taken more than one direct it from a 2000 pound bomb to sink it.

    From your comment may I conclude that the U-Boats that fired torpedoes at allied vessels during the Battle of the Atlantic did not intend to sink them?

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  153. Anonymous says:     Show CommentNext New Comment
    @geokat62

    No you are obsessed with jews
     
    Ok, if you say so.

    Do NOT TRUST the zionist Jew ‘anon’. He is a zionist troll posting comments in support of the jewish zionist mass murder and act as one of the zionist liar to fool dummies. He is a pro criminal and terrorist Israel. Don’t engage with this zionist troll.

    Please read the following comments where he is defending a mass murderer zionist jew at Richard Falk website. Don’t engage this zionist criminal supporter of the zionist crime against humanity.

    {
    anan
    June 6, 2017 at 10:01 am #

    Dear Prof Falk, I find your dialogue with Fred Skolnik to be very informative, nuanced, subtle and helpful. Both of you are highly intelligent and historically informed. Please don’t ban Fred Skolnik; but rather continue your public dialogue with him, so that the rest of us can learn from it.

    I haven’t finished reading the entire chain between both of you; but am enjoying what I have read so far.

    Your blog is one of the few places where informed substantive discussions about Palestine take place with people of different perspectives. Thanks for this.

    I don’t think it is helpful to call Fred “Hasbara”.

    Fred Skolnik, I don’t think that Prof Falk is an enemy of Israelis and Jews. There are very real enemies of Israelis and Jews, including Salafi Jihadi extremists who want to wipe Israelis and Jews from the face of the earth. There are soft Islamists who want to establish Sharia all over Israel and the world. There are BDS campaigners who want to end Israel. Prof Falk does not belong to one of these camps. I don’t think there is any edge to impugning his motives. We cannot always agree, but we can disagree agreeably and respectfully.

    https://richardfalk.wordpress.com/2017/06/06/fred-skolnik-and-the-politics-of-vilification/#comments

    You can’t really support Hamas; unless you are misinformed about them. It is understandable that so many people around the world, around the muslim world, around the Arab world, from Palestine and Israel are suspicious of Hamas.

    Israeli fear of Hamas is justified. The Egyptians have similarly attacked the Ikhwan in their own country; with broad popular support.}

    Expose the zionist mass murderers ALL OVER THE WORLD.

    Read More
  154. @Rurik

    if Israel had intended to sink the Liberty, it would have done so quite easily.
     
    they tried, and the proof is they machine gunned the life boats, obviously intending for no Americans to survive.

    the sheer barrage of weapons used from both sea and air attest to Israel's intention to sink the ship with all hands. That they were incompetent, and the Americans heroic, seems perfectly probable, all things considered.

    Hey Rurik,

    One has to excuse ‘lot’, as this insect is one of the most pathetic zionist liars commenting here.
    ‘Lot’ of sad little lies….
    Though the village Idiot who takes the cake is the mcohen dude! What an ass-clown!
    And what is it with all these anon/Anon/etc zio trolls?
    Can’t these scumbags at least pick a handle!? Well… I guess it’s all part of their cowardly little games, as another poster noted.

    As for 9-11, given the cowardice of those few zamericans who know better, to confront the manufactured Zio narrative, there is a good chance it’ll become another USS Liberty.

    Bollyn is a rarity, a real hero, and he has paid a heavy price for it.

    I have been portrayed as an anti-Semitic writer by the leading media networks simply because I dare to investigate the evidence of Israeli involvement in the terror attacks.

    The level of the personal attacks against me increased dramatically in August 2006, when a police assault by three unidentified heavily-armed men resulted in my right elbow being fractured and my being unjustifiably shocked with 50,000 volts from a police device known as a TASER. This outrageous and illegal assault occurred at my home in front of my wife and eight-year-old daughter.

    I was taken to jail and subsequently charged by the police with resisting arrest and aggravated assault, both misdemeanor charges.[...]
    In early June 2007, I was found guilty of both misdemeanors after a seriously flawed four-day trial in which the police were allowed to destroy the video evidence and then openly lied on the stand. My expert witness and evidence were not allowed to be presented by the Cook County judge, Hyman Riebman, a Zionist Jew.

    Interview: Sean Stone and Christopher Bollyn on 9/11, Israel & the Mossad
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_0p0OIHZ-RI

    Read More
  155. I mentioned several specialists in a previous post, who stated that the official Bin Laden/Al-Qaeda narrative was an impossible one. C. Bollyn talked to 2 other such Intel specialists;

    In Germany, I had the opportunity to interview Andreas von Bülow near Köln. Von Bülow, an author and former member of the Bundestag (the German parliament) served on the parliamentary commission which oversees the three branches of the German secret service. Von Bülow said he thought Israel’s intelligence service, Mossad, was behind the 9-11 attacks. These attacks, he said, were carried out to turn public opinion against the Arabs and boost military and security spending.

    “You don’t get the higher echelons,” von Bülow said, referring to the “architectural structure” which masterminds such terror attacks. At this level, he said, the organization doing the planning, such as Mossad, is primarily interested in affecting public opinion. The terrorists who actually commit the crimes are what von Bülow calls “the working level,” such as the nineteen Arabs who allegedly hijacked the planes on September 11. “The working level is part of the deception,” he said.

    “Ninety-five percent of the work of the intelligence agencies around the world is deception and disinformation,” he said, which is widely propagated in the mainstream media creating an accepted version of events. “Journalists don’t even raise the simplest questions,” he said. “Those who differ are labeled as crazy.”

    Eckehardt Werthebach, the former president of the Verfassungsschutz (a branch of German intelligence), told me that “the deathly precision” and “the magnitude of planning” behind the attacks would have needed “years of planning.” Such a sophisticated operation, Werthebach said, required the “fixed frame” of a state intelligence organization, something not found in a “loose group” of terrorists. Both Werthebach and von Bülow said the lack of a complete “blue ribbon” investigation, with congressional hearings, into the events of September 11 was incomprehensible. These men made more sense to me than anyone in the U.S. government or media.

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    • Replies: @anon
    Thanks.

    Question is how the master planners kept the low value stupid actors like Saudis and Pakistanis misinformed or clueless while getting the job done by them and while making sure these guys leave the foot prints easy for detection.


    I guess's despite 50,00 being involved in Manhattan only few knew what was going on


    Correct me or fill me in with more information if I am wrong.
    , @Rurik

    .. Israel’s intelligence service, Mossad, was behind the 9-11 attacks. These attacks, he said, were carried out to turn public opinion against the Arabs and boost military and security spending.
     
    not only that LK, but also to turn the American people into Palestinians, with check points and treating us at the airports as if we're all terrorists. Not to mention total surveillance of our every email or phone conversation, every text and every thing our 'smart' phone cameras see.

    Just as Ehud Barak predicted on 9/11, 'nothing will be the same'

    these psychopathic fiends are so far beyond the Pale, that it boggles the mind.

    they slaughter our citizens in horrific balls of fire, then they tell the people in the other tower to return to their work stations and cubicles knowing the second plane is on its way, hoping for maximum casualties.

    "it's very good" after all

    and then they set about systematically dismantling our hard-won Constitutional rights as they send off our young people as cannon fodder to die in illegal wars on innocent nations. Earning the well-deserved hatred of the entire Islamic world.

    charming people these zio-scum, eh?

    but far, far worse are the American politicians and media whores who enable them

    Bollyn as you point out is an true American patriot. Thanks for the links
    , @Anonymous
    Thanks. I've kept an open mind about 9/11. But the German information in your post convinced me that Israel destroyed the towers. The only other reasonable explanation was a Jewish lightening insurance fraud by Larry Silverstein. But I never could see how he could have managed to fly 2 planes into the buildings.
  156. anon says:     Show CommentNext New Comment
    @L.K
    I mentioned several specialists in a previous post, who stated that the official Bin Laden/Al-Qaeda narrative was an impossible one. C. Bollyn talked to 2 other such Intel specialists;

    In Germany, I had the opportunity to interview Andreas von Bülow near Köln. Von Bülow, an author and former member of the Bundestag (the German parliament) served on the parliamentary commission which oversees the three branches of the German secret service. Von Bülow said he thought Israel's intelligence service, Mossad, was behind the 9-11 attacks. These attacks, he said, were carried out to turn public opinion against the Arabs and boost military and security spending.

    "You don't get the higher echelons," von Bülow said, referring to the "architectural structure" which masterminds such terror attacks. At this level, he said, the organization doing the planning, such as Mossad, is primarily interested in affecting public opinion. The terrorists who actually commit the crimes are what von Bülow calls "the working level," such as the nineteen Arabs who allegedly hijacked the planes on September 11. "The working level is part of the deception," he said.

    "Ninety-five percent of the work of the intelligence agencies around the world is deception and disinformation," he said, which is widely propagated in the mainstream media creating an accepted version of events. "Journalists don't even raise the simplest questions," he said. "Those who differ are labeled as crazy."

    Eckehardt Werthebach, the former president of the Verfassungsschutz (a branch of German intelligence), told me that "the deathly precision" and "the magnitude of planning" behind the attacks would have needed "years of planning." Such a sophisticated operation, Werthebach said, required the "fixed frame" of a state intelligence organization, something not found in a "loose group" of terrorists. Both Werthebach and von Bülow said the lack of a complete "blue ribbon" investigation, with congressional hearings, into the events of September 11 was incomprehensible. These men made more sense to me than anyone in the U.S. government or media.
     

    Thanks.

    Question is how the master planners kept the low value stupid actors like Saudis and Pakistanis misinformed or clueless while getting the job done by them and while making sure these guys leave the foot prints easy for detection.

    I guess’s despite 50,00 being involved in Manhattan only few knew what was going on

    Correct me or fill me in with more information if I am wrong.

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  157. @SolontoCroesus

    All those who accuse israel are commie bum boys running errands for putin.
     
    Jews and Commies -- a match solidly endorsed by Norman Finkelstein.

    Susan Liebman Butler has also placed her heart and her loyalty at the feet of Josef Stalin, just like Finkelstein does.
    "But Stalin killed millions of Ukrainians -- far more people than Hitler killed," someone reminded Liebman-Butler.
    Replied Butler: "Stalin had to do it to preserve his vision, and besides, they were Kulaks."
    (if you're a Kulak -- or a sailor on a US ship -- your death is inconsequential.)
    https://www.c-span.org/video/?190721-1/dear-mr-stalin

    Although -- as hateful as their attitudes are: i.e. Finkelstein endorses "the Jewish attitude: Never Forgive, Never Forget," and allows latent passive-aggression to come to the fore when he "hypothesizes" that Israelis killed Americans on USS Liberty out of their "deep and eternal hatred for the goyim" -- at least he and Liebman-Butler own their psychopathologies.

    Not so Ron and Allis Radosh. They figured out tout de suite which side of the bread was buttered; after immersing themselves in Communism when it was beneficial, they switched sides and ratted out their former fellows.

    What they all have in common that they turned their psychopathologies into a livelihood.

    --------

    By the way: A couple weeks ago the Jewish mayor of Charlottesville supported removing Confederate statues from public places in the Home of Thomas Jefferson.
    But Jefferson's University, University of Virginia in Charlottesville, dedicates a week to memorializing the holocaust, and nearby Richmond, Virginia has a museum to the holocaust.

    Harpy Nikki Haley removed the Confederate flag from public places in South Carolina.
    But South Carolina created a council to study the holocaust, --->

    South Carolina Council on the Holocaust


    “The work that the SC Council on the Holocaust does is so important for our students in South Carolina. Having a chance to discuss and reflect on the past gives students the tools to be better citizens for our future.”

    --Molly Spearman, State Superintendent of Education
     

    How many students in US taxpayer-supported schools are given "the chance to discuss and reflect on" Israel's attack on the Liberty?

    How many US states have memorials to the 34 men who died on the Liberty?

    …South Carolina created a council to study the holocaust

    That’s ok because, as Joseph Sobran once put it, introducing Holocaust Studies into the US curriculum can only lead, in the near future, to … Remedial Holocaust Studies

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  158. @Bragadocious
    I looked at the casualty list and found a Toth and a Mendle, both of which can be Jewish names....or not. I wonder how the Jews on board felt about this attack. Given the actions of LBJ, it seems the Jew card has definite credit limits -- when you're going against the "Jewish State."

    Jews died in the King David bombing – the attackers probably considered it collateral damage or the death of collaborators with the British or whatever. I don’t think Jewish crew on the Liberty would deter the Israelis from whatever course of action they chose, whether it was a deliberate attack or a mistake at some level.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Philip Giraldi
    I believe there were one or two American Jews among the crew who were Hebrew translators
  159. @NoseytheDuke
    It is absurd to imagine that the president of the most powerful nation on earth in 1967 would take orders from a barely half-developed country in the Eastern Mediterranean.

    "Were going to be screening the Zapruder film for you after tonight dinner again Mr President".

    A few years earlier LBJ had threatened the Greek ambassador after some dispute, telling him the USA was a giant and Greece was nothing and could be crushed if the USA wished. Indeed, a short time before the Liberty incident there was a military coup in Greece and the USA probably set it in motion.
    I don’t think the equivalents of AIPAC had a lock on processes in the USA in 1967, whatever may have been the case later.

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  160. @Uebersetzer
    Jews died in the King David bombing - the attackers probably considered it collateral damage or the death of collaborators with the British or whatever. I don't think Jewish crew on the Liberty would deter the Israelis from whatever course of action they chose, whether it was a deliberate attack or a mistake at some level.

    I believe there were one or two American Jews among the crew who were Hebrew translators

    Read More
    • Replies: @Uebersetzer
    Very likely, if they were monitoring Israeli SIGINT, they would have Hebrew-language specialists on board and most would be from a Jewish background.
  161. @Anon
    I'm not disagreeing with you so much as trying to insist on rigour. Your point about incentives to attack a US ship is expressed too loosely and begs the question.

    You need to argue IMO that Israel couldn't have been engaging in a false flag operation because there was no way that it was going to be reported during the attack or afterwards that Liberty was being/had been attacked by Egyptian aircraft and, on the fantastic assumption that Liberty was quickly sunk and all on board killed, that this was going to be attributed to the Egyptians despite the fact that it was day three of the Six Day War and the Egyptian air force had been crippled on day 1.

    The more I think about the deeply flawed case on UR threads for a high level plot to destroy the Liberty and everyone on it the more unlikely it seems. If I was looking for a high level Israeli reason for putting it out of action I would look to something to do with the attack on the Golan Heights but I don't see many of the enthusiasts on this thread wanting to look at that because they assume that Johnson and Macnamara are already in on the Israeli's war plan. And how it would help the Israeli takeover and retention of the Golan Heights is hard to see.

    I am increasingly of the view that the Sixth Fleet denial to the Israelis that there was a US navy ship in the vicinity as alleged by one commenter, if true, could be critical to explaining most significant unknowns, not least what Johnson and Macnamara didn't do or say.

    Exactly. Blowing up a subway is a plausible false flag. Egypt deciding to just randomly destroy a US ship makes no sense. The US saved Egypt in the Suez Crisis. It would never randomly start a war. The fact it had its airforce mostly destroyed and the rest trying to run to safety or used defensively is on top of that.

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  162. @Rurik

    if Israel had intended to sink the Liberty, it would have done so quite easily.
     
    they tried, and the proof is they machine gunned the life boats, obviously intending for no Americans to survive.

    the sheer barrage of weapons used from both sea and air attest to Israel's intention to sink the ship with all hands. That they were incompetent, and the Americans heroic, seems perfectly probable, all things considered.

    So Israel, able to defeat multiple Arab armies and airforces in a matter of days, was only able to kill about 1/5 of the people on an unarmed ship?

    This degree of paranoid retardation is kind of fascinating.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    The one fact agreed upon by all sides is that the Israelis murdered 34 out of 294 aboard. That's only about 10 percent not 1/5.

    Most histories of the incident agree that the Israelis intended to kill all 294. They were only dissuaded by the presence of a Russian ship in the area.
    , @anon
    Yeah the difference between Giraldi's commenters and Sailer's commenters is quite jarring really. The guys here are stormfront level rejects. Pathetic , obsessed and sick people.

    I saw a guy on stormfront advise readers that it was real easy to watch 2 hour long youtube conspiracy videos. Simply watch it at the table while you are eating your meals !!!!!!!

    He was so obsessed and socially unaware of how embarrassing and retarded it was to admit something so pathetic. Giraldi's commenters remind me of that guy.
    , @Rurik

    So Israel, able to defeat multiple Arab armies and airforces in a matter of days, was only able to kill about 1/5 of the people on an unarmed ship?
     
    the only way Israel could ever survive even one day is with American weapons and expertise, and of course their well documented treachery.

    they are notorious cowards and inept soldiers. Why else would they do all they could to get others to do their fighting for them?

    why else would Ariel Sharon use Lebanese Phalange militias to slaughter the women and children of Sabra and Shatila? There was the possibility that one of the women or children might have picked up a sharp object or table leg and throttled one of the little Zio-boyz with it. Better to hide from a distance and get others to fight for you, huh?

    Hell, even the Israeli government was so appalled at Sharon's brazen cowardice that they charged him with a war crime for that little incident.

    Just look at how a few ragtag Hezbollah troops can defeat the entire IDF with a fraction of the weaponry and nearly infinite toys the IDF has courtesy the ZUSA tax payer, but it's all for nothing when the weapons are in the hands of cowards and incompetents.

    look at em all huddled down on their bellies with a sniper rifle to shoot children from the roof top

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=De8g_LAHh_0

    and then if that isn't stomach turning enough, the brave IDF soldier even congratulates his colleague for shooting a child! Wow, what gallantry! What valor!

    I'm surprised the IDF got as far as they did with the USS Liberty, since it did have a machine gun on deck and a few of the officers had side arms. And who know if they were able to call for help. In fact, as I understand it, the reason the IDF called off the attack is because they heard that jets were scrambled to assist the Liberty, and they wanted no part of a fair fight. So sure, they tried to sink her with all hands, but endemic cowardice and notorious incompetence saved the day.
  163. @Thirdeye
    Not that effective or brilliant. The fixation on battleship row was sophomoric. According to Admiral Nimitz, taking out the shore support facilities would have had a much greater impact on the US ability to wage war in the Pacific, forcing the US fleet to base its operations out of San Diego. That would have made it virtually impossible to project US power into the western Pacific during the crucial time in which the battles of the Coral Sea, Midway, and Guadalcanal took place.
    The Japanese also had an unrealized opportunity to seize Oahu because the land forces defending it were weak. As it was, most of the damaged ships were salvaged after sitting in the mud and they were facing obsolescence as first line assets with the battleship and carrier building program then underway.

    Taking out shore support in a single very long range sneak attack is not realistic.

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  164. @Philip Giraldi
    I believe there were one or two American Jews among the crew who were Hebrew translators

    Very likely, if they were monitoring Israeli SIGINT, they would have Hebrew-language specialists on board and most would be from a Jewish background.

    Read More
  165. OT,

    Is anyone experiencing their posts not showing up or being posted and then disappearing?
    I don’t suspect anything other than a technical glitch because a very benign post of mine went into the aether as well as the post to which I was responding to.

    Maybe mcohen got the job as moderator?

    Cheers-

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  166. Anonymous says:     Show CommentNext New Comment

    That’s not the way it works. Signit doesn’t listen to the information as it comes in. It goes to the pentagon and navy intelligence. Hebrew is the language of Israel. Most American Jews know only a little Hebrew, certainly not enough to interpret and understand as it came in.

    Hebrew interpreters would be far away in navy intelligence buildings and the pentagon.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Hibernian
    I don't know about ships, but in the Cold War, Army translators went up in Air Force planes to pick out what was valuable enough to be sent to the analysts.
  167. Anonymous says:     Show CommentNext New Comment
    @Lot
    So Israel, able to defeat multiple Arab armies and airforces in a matter of days, was only able to kill about 1/5 of the people on an unarmed ship?

    This degree of paranoid retardation is kind of fascinating.

    The one fact agreed upon by all sides is that the Israelis murdered 34 out of 294 aboard. That’s only about 10 percent not 1/5.

    Most histories of the incident agree that the Israelis intended to kill all 294. They were only dissuaded by the presence of a Russian ship in the area.

    Read More
  168. @L.K
    I mentioned several specialists in a previous post, who stated that the official Bin Laden/Al-Qaeda narrative was an impossible one. C. Bollyn talked to 2 other such Intel specialists;

    In Germany, I had the opportunity to interview Andreas von Bülow near Köln. Von Bülow, an author and former member of the Bundestag (the German parliament) served on the parliamentary commission which oversees the three branches of the German secret service. Von Bülow said he thought Israel's intelligence service, Mossad, was behind the 9-11 attacks. These attacks, he said, were carried out to turn public opinion against the Arabs and boost military and security spending.

    "You don't get the higher echelons," von Bülow said, referring to the "architectural structure" which masterminds such terror attacks. At this level, he said, the organization doing the planning, such as Mossad, is primarily interested in affecting public opinion. The terrorists who actually commit the crimes are what von Bülow calls "the working level," such as the nineteen Arabs who allegedly hijacked the planes on September 11. "The working level is part of the deception," he said.

    "Ninety-five percent of the work of the intelligence agencies around the world is deception and disinformation," he said, which is widely propagated in the mainstream media creating an accepted version of events. "Journalists don't even raise the simplest questions," he said. "Those who differ are labeled as crazy."

    Eckehardt Werthebach, the former president of the Verfassungsschutz (a branch of German intelligence), told me that "the deathly precision" and "the magnitude of planning" behind the attacks would have needed "years of planning." Such a sophisticated operation, Werthebach said, required the "fixed frame" of a state intelligence organization, something not found in a "loose group" of terrorists. Both Werthebach and von Bülow said the lack of a complete "blue ribbon" investigation, with congressional hearings, into the events of September 11 was incomprehensible. These men made more sense to me than anyone in the U.S. government or media.
     

    .. Israel’s intelligence service, Mossad, was behind the 9-11 attacks. These attacks, he said, were carried out to turn public opinion against the Arabs and boost military and security spending.

    not only that LK, but also to turn the American people into Palestinians, with check points and treating us at the airports as if we’re all terrorists. Not to mention total surveillance of our every email or phone conversation, every text and every thing our ‘smart’ phone cameras see.

    Just as Ehud Barak predicted on 9/11, ‘nothing will be the same’

    these psychopathic fiends are so far beyond the Pale, that it boggles the mind.

    they slaughter our citizens in horrific balls of fire, then they tell the people in the other tower to return to their work stations and cubicles knowing the second plane is on its way, hoping for maximum casualties.

    “it’s very good” after all

    and then they set about systematically dismantling our hard-won Constitutional rights as they send off our young people as cannon fodder to die in illegal wars on innocent nations. Earning the well-deserved hatred of the entire Islamic world.

    charming people these zio-scum, eh?

    but far, far worse are the American politicians and media whores who enable them

    Bollyn as you point out is an true American patriot. Thanks for the links

    Read More
  169. Anonymous says:     Show CommentNext New Comment
    @L.K
    I mentioned several specialists in a previous post, who stated that the official Bin Laden/Al-Qaeda narrative was an impossible one. C. Bollyn talked to 2 other such Intel specialists;

    In Germany, I had the opportunity to interview Andreas von Bülow near Köln. Von Bülow, an author and former member of the Bundestag (the German parliament) served on the parliamentary commission which oversees the three branches of the German secret service. Von Bülow said he thought Israel's intelligence service, Mossad, was behind the 9-11 attacks. These attacks, he said, were carried out to turn public opinion against the Arabs and boost military and security spending.

    "You don't get the higher echelons," von Bülow said, referring to the "architectural structure" which masterminds such terror attacks. At this level, he said, the organization doing the planning, such as Mossad, is primarily interested in affecting public opinion. The terrorists who actually commit the crimes are what von Bülow calls "the working level," such as the nineteen Arabs who allegedly hijacked the planes on September 11. "The working level is part of the deception," he said.

    "Ninety-five percent of the work of the intelligence agencies around the world is deception and disinformation," he said, which is widely propagated in the mainstream media creating an accepted version of events. "Journalists don't even raise the simplest questions," he said. "Those who differ are labeled as crazy."

    Eckehardt Werthebach, the former president of the Verfassungsschutz (a branch of German intelligence), told me that "the deathly precision" and "the magnitude of planning" behind the attacks would have needed "years of planning." Such a sophisticated operation, Werthebach said, required the "fixed frame" of a state intelligence organization, something not found in a "loose group" of terrorists. Both Werthebach and von Bülow said the lack of a complete "blue ribbon" investigation, with congressional hearings, into the events of September 11 was incomprehensible. These men made more sense to me than anyone in the U.S. government or media.
     

    Thanks. I’ve kept an open mind about 9/11. But the German information in your post convinced me that Israel destroyed the towers. The only other reasonable explanation was a Jewish lightening insurance fraud by Larry Silverstein. But I never could see how he could have managed to fly 2 planes into the buildings.

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  170. For 2 hours on June 8th 1967 the USA was at war with Israel and the USA won!!

    With great skill and courage the crew of the USS Liberty kept their ship afloat and managed to send out a distress signal while under intense attack by Jewish jets and torpedo boats aiming to sink them without a trace.

    The Israelis were finally obliged to pull back, and traitor* Johnson had to recall his “retaliation” attack on Egypt and also ensure that the USS Liberty story fast disappeared from circulation, the same as the surviving sailors.

    To draw some parallels:

    In London on the 5th of November 1605 conspirator Guy Fawkes was arrested guarding explosives placed under the House of Lords with which he and his fellow plotters planned to assassinate King James I.

    In thanksgiving for the arrest, Londoners lit bonfires around the city, and the following January just before the plotter’s execution , the 5th of November was made a public holiday and came to be known as “Guy Fawkes Night” (“Bonfire Night”), the point being that more than 400 years later the day is still celebrated (barbeques, drinks, bonfires and fireworks) and everyone learns again of the treason of Guy Fawkes.

    So, kudos to Americans who light bonfires on “Lyndon Baines Johnson Night” (8th June) to remember his treason and commemorate the heroism of the USS Liberty crew.

    * Traitor: Whether Johnson was blackmailed through Israeli knowledge of his part in the Kennedy assassination (Nelson 2011) or because he was their co-conspirator (Collins-Piper 1995) is irrelevant. The fact is that he knew of Operation Cyanide and the coming attack on the ship and collaborated.

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  171. anon says:     Show CommentNext New Comment
    @Lot
    So Israel, able to defeat multiple Arab armies and airforces in a matter of days, was only able to kill about 1/5 of the people on an unarmed ship?

    This degree of paranoid retardation is kind of fascinating.

    Yeah the difference between Giraldi’s commenters and Sailer’s commenters is quite jarring really. The guys here are stormfront level rejects. Pathetic , obsessed and sick people.

    I saw a guy on stormfront advise readers that it was real easy to watch 2 hour long youtube conspiracy videos. Simply watch it at the table while you are eating your meals !!!!!!!

    He was so obsessed and socially unaware of how embarrassing and retarded it was to admit something so pathetic. Giraldi’s commenters remind me of that guy.

    Read More
    • Troll: L.K
    • Replies: @Lot
    There is certainly a lot of overlap between Unz.com and Nazi websites. Andrew Joyce for example is popular at Stormfront, does Red Ice Radio, and Occidental Observer. Same for Kevin MacDonald.

    What is unique about Unz.com is that it combines both neo-Nazi and far left Muslimist anti-Semites like Alison Weir, Norman Finkelstein, and Jeffrey St. Clair, plus hard to categorize conspiracy kooks.
  172. Anonymous says:     Show CommentNext New Comment
    @jilles dykstra
    Whitewash shows clearly that it was impossible that Oswald was the only one who shot.
    Kennedy was killed two weeks after he threatened Israel with not giving them weapons any more if they continued developing their atomic bomb.

    I’ve been to Dallas and took the tour of the Book Depository building. I looked through the window at exactly where Kennedy was shot. I’ve only hunted and shot rifles a little bit. But even I, who still flinches when the rifle bangs into my shoulder could have made the shot especially with the rifle propped up on a stack of cartons as Oswald did. It’s only about 50 feet from the window to where the car was.

    For every theory about the Kennedy killing there is another theory contradicting the first theory.

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    • Replies: @NoseytheDuke
    Apparently it is such an easy shot that Oswald was actually able to make it while leaning against a Coke machine with a drink in his hand, in the canteen, a couple of floors below the area from which you claim the shot was made. Amazing!
  173. @anon
    The killings in Syria are being carried out by the minority alawite dictatorship (alawites are 10% of the Syrian poplulation) that siezed power in a coup and has never relinquished it. In one month in 1982 the Syrians killed more people than Israel has in the past 100 years. The killing done by Syria in the past 3 years is 20 X what Israel has done in 100 years.

    Israel is 100% more responsible than Alawites for casualties in Syria. The shrill and desperate hasbara lies from Tel Aviv’s troll army are getting more ugly and more absurd while Israel becomes weaker and more reviled.

    http://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/who-is-destroying-syria/
    Who Is Destroying Syria?
    The Arab Gulf States, Israel, and Turkey all prefer anarchy to Assad
    .
    By Philip Giraldi • May 3, 2017

    Read More
    • Replies: @anon
    Assad government did the killing.
    Alawites don't have agency now ??

    The Alawite dictatorship has been a murder machine since Hafez illregaly seized power in a coup.

    In October of 1982 Syria killed more people than Israel has in the past 100 years. Syria also killed half a million people over the past 5 years. Syria,was also complicit in the Beirut bombing of a USA marine barracks that left hundreds of Americans killed.
  174. @Lot
    So Israel, able to defeat multiple Arab armies and airforces in a matter of days, was only able to kill about 1/5 of the people on an unarmed ship?

    This degree of paranoid retardation is kind of fascinating.

    So Israel, able to defeat multiple Arab armies and airforces in a matter of days, was only able to kill about 1/5 of the people on an unarmed ship?

    the only way Israel could ever survive even one day is with American weapons and expertise, and of course their well documented treachery.

    they are notorious cowards and inept soldiers. Why else would they do all they could to get others to do their fighting for them?

    why else would Ariel Sharon use Lebanese Phalange militias to slaughter the women and children of Sabra and Shatila? There was the possibility that one of the women or children might have picked up a sharp object or table leg and throttled one of the little Zio-boyz with it. Better to hide from a distance and get others to fight for you, huh?

    Hell, even the Israeli government was so appalled at Sharon’s brazen cowardice that they charged him with a war crime for that little incident.

    Just look at how a few ragtag Hezbollah troops can defeat the entire IDF with a fraction of the weaponry and nearly infinite toys the IDF has courtesy the ZUSA tax payer, but it’s all for nothing when the weapons are in the hands of cowards and incompetents.

    look at em all huddled down on their bellies with a sniper rifle to shoot children from the roof top

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=De8g_LAHh_0

    and then if that isn’t stomach turning enough, the brave IDF soldier even congratulates his colleague for shooting a child! Wow, what gallantry! What valor!

    I’m surprised the IDF got as far as they did with the USS Liberty, since it did have a machine gun on deck and a few of the officers had side arms. And who know if they were able to call for help. In fact, as I understand it, the reason the IDF called off the attack is because they heard that jets were scrambled to assist the Liberty, and they wanted no part of a fair fight. So sure, they tried to sink her with all hands, but endemic cowardice and notorious incompetence saved the day.

    Read More
    • Replies: @anon
    Hey Mr. Happy !!!!!
    To summarize your word salad :

    Israel controls the world while at the same time being inept cowards.

    Keep it up . You are making total sense !!!!!!
  175. @Anon
    You are being very naughty. With all the maddies for some reason gathered to froth on this thread a few vital fuses may be blown if too much stimulus is applied.

    Now that you are hete I would be pleased if you would turn your sane and analytical mind to #31 and #43.

    Anon,

    Not necessarily sane or analytical, but here goes:

    “…I am not…convinced that it [attack on the Liberty] was an Israeli…decision at the highest level…”

    We’re all guessing. Hard to believe the coordination of air force and navy wouldn’t rise to the highest IDF level, if not higher. Israel takes pride in competence, and there’s no reason to discount them. At the same time it’s doubtful they’d underestimate the force necessary to kill all witnesses and sink the ship if that was their goal. Could have been (they tried hard enough). Most concede the attack deliberate. Was it mistaken identity? That’s the question.

    “None of the motives suggested are so compelling…to be accepted…”

    Agreed. Conspiracies seem far fetched. Nuking Cairo? False flags? Israeli soldiers sworn to secrecy? LBJ or Macnamara planning involvement? Utter nonsense (my opinion).

    That said, this isn’t my first USS Liberty rodeo: http://www.unz.com/pgiraldi/aipac-is-back-in-town/#new_comments
    post #225, #250, #268, #292, #316 (31 Mar – 4 Apr 2017)

    As stated there, ‘Attack on the Liberty’ and James Bamford’s ‘The Cover-Up’ (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2001/aug/08/israel) differ significantly from the official US and Israeli accounts. Some of Bamford’s points:

    IDF motive: To attack and sink an Egyptian destroyer steaming at 30 knots after it shelled El Arish.
    Bamford: Liberty was easily distinguished from a warship, lacked heavy guns and sprouted spy antenna masts. It was clearly marked (Latin markings, ensigns – sailors hoisted a second large ensign during the attack). It was steaming at 5 knots (top speed well below 30 knots). IDF surveilled Liberty regularly for over six hours prior to the attack, at one point with friendly acknowledgment. Crewman Larry Weaver: “I was actually able to wave to the co-pilot. He waved back and actually smiled at me – I could see him that well. There’s no question about it. They had seen the ship’s markings and the American flag.”

    IDF explanation: mistaken identity.
    Bamford: IDF prolonged close surveillance (including friendly acknowledgment), followed by communication jamming, cannon fire, machine guns, rockets, napalm, 1000-lb bombs, torpedoes, and strafing life rafts. An attack thus varied and sustained seems unlikely mistaken or authored by mistaken judgment on behalf of the Israeli commanders on site (let alone further up the chain).

    Was Israel truly regretful? Let Bamford tell it:

    “In the days following the attack, the Israeli government gave the US government a classified report that attempted to justify the claim that the attack was a mistake. On the basis of that same report, an Israeli court of inquiry completely exonerated the government and all those involved. No one was ever court-martialled, reduced in rank or even reprimanded. On the contrary, Israel chose instead to honour motor torpedo boat 203, which fired the deadly torpedo at the Liberty. The ship’s wheel and bell were placed on prominent display at the naval museum, among the maritime artefacts of which the Israeli navy was most proud.”

    Israel claims a grievous mistake, fails to find any fault, and enshrines torpedo boat 203 as heroic? Comments Anon?

    War unleashed is rarely rational. The ‘67 War was an audacious gamble for nascent Israel. Raw memories of Ike’s humbling restraint in Suez ‘56 may have been fresh. Why tolerate loose ends that risk defeat? Trust no one. Better to eliminate all unknowns, anything that imperils success. The universal war code: do all that’s necessary to win. Eliminate all unknowns. The rest will sort itself out. And so they did (my uneducated guess).

    “surely [it’s] time to declassify everything.”

    Couldn’t agree more.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Eagle Eye

    [Anon] “…I am not…convinced that it [attack on the Liberty] was an Israeli…decision at the highest level…”

    We’re all guessing. Hard to believe the coordination of air force and navy wouldn’t rise to the highest IDF level, if not higher.
     

    With respect, I suspect the question was meant in a different sense.

    Everyone here seems to agree that the Israeli government intentionally ordered the coordinated air-sea attack on the USS Liberty - the attack does not seem to have been an instance of erroneous "friendly fire."

    I read the question as asking whether the decision to attack was an Israeli decision in the sense that the idea originated with the Israeli government.

    The alternative, of course, would be that LBJ and McNamara ordered Israel to attack and sink the USS Liberty as a pretext to enable the U.S. to launch an attack - possibly nuclear - against Egypt. Under this scenario, the Israeli government would have received the U.S. order and "decided" to implement the U.S. order by issuing instructions to the respective IDF units that carried out the attack.

    Remember that we are talking about the same LBJ/McNamara who are KNOWN to have staged the Gulf of Tonkin spectacle (against North Vietnam) in 1964 and the USS Pueblo incident (against North Korea) in 1968.

    Two points need to be addressed by any theory seeking to explain what happened:

    (1) As I have pointed out many times, radar and radio surveillance technology in 1967 easily enabled the U.S. to identify the source of the coordinated attacks in real time. In addition, U.S. intelligence assets in Egypt and Israel would quickly have advised the U.S. of what actually happened.

    This means that the U.S. could not have been hoodwinked, nor would the Israeli government have thought for even a second that they would be able to hoodwink the U.S. leadership. Public statements from both sides may deny this, but the state of technology in 1967 makes any claim of U.S. ignorance laughable.

    (2) What did the Israeli government THINK the attack on an intelligence asset operated by their most important de facto ally would achieve?

    Again, whatever may have been said in public, the idea that the U.S. leadership would think for even a second that Egypt had attacked the USS Liberty is risible, so this could not have been the intention of the Israeli government unless one posits a sudden outbreak of collective insanity.

    , @Anon
    You've moved me back a little toward suspicion of conscious crime although I don't think any inference can be drawn from subsequent Israeli insouciance. After all no one in the UK apart from Nicholsas Tolstoy - to his considerable cost - has done much to follow up honestly the British bdtrayal of Ukrainian POWs that were shamefully returned to the tender mercies of Stalin. Nothing surprising there.

    You have nicely dismissed the mad theories involving Johnson and Macnamara. My feeling is that Norman Finkelstein's kind of explanation in terms of personalities and prejudices is the way to go. Even if his detail is wrong one should try and imagine the brief conversations between pepped up tough guys in a service where they took pride in making decisions swiftly and taking responsbility without referring everything upwards. "American flag? My grandmother can run you up an American flag! Our guys have it from the Sixth Fleet tbat there isn't any US ship anywhere near........ Looks like a spy ship with electronics all over?! WTF is it doing? Give it a buzz and see if it pisses off".......... "So what's this effing ship up to?"...... "I've spoken to Avi who just said, use your own effing inititiative. Better to be safe than sorry. One thing's sure it isn't there to help us take Jerusalem...." Etc...

    , @Sam Shama
    Hi Incitatus,
    Late entry here, but I skimmed over the many comments, none too surprising in that the same old emotions, mental afflictions etc are bubbling to the surface.

    I have, like you and others, read about the Liberty tragedy, including listening to the declassified recordings of the pilots' exchanges during the incident.

    Quite right.We are all guessing the full contours of the plan and ultimate motives. Some things are clearer on the other hand.

    The exchanges between the pilots leave me with little doubt that the squadron leader was under orders to identify and then launch the attack. The identification part confused me since he appears quite determined to carry out an attack. One of the pilots clearly says "Ze Shelanu! Shelanu!" , meaning "It's one of ours! Ours!", indicating an American ship. The Sq. leader then ignores the pilot and orders the group to proceed with the attack pattern prompting yet another objection from the pilot, who is then told "Ata tachzor be hazara le bait" meaning, "So you head back home to the base".The attack proceeded with the remaining planes under the knowledge that it was an Egyptian ship.

    I am fairly convinced the squadron leader was under orders to attack while also required to convey to his group that it was an Egyptian vessel based on intelligence (flawed). The solitary pilot's identification of the American colours was, therefore, a hindrance to carry out objectives and dealt with via an order to return to base.

    What has never been clear to me, far from it in fact, as to why on earth Israel, at the time a nation striving hard to get into the best books of the USA, engage in an act so asymmetric in potential repercussions, upon a guaranteed post-mortem investigation!

    The Sq. leader was badly mistaken and he overrode the pilot's identification. That much is clear. He was also under orders which directed him to be aware of the possibility of Egyptian vessels operating in subterfuge. It is also possible that he was required to convince his group that it was an Egyptian ship no matter what.

    , @iffen
    Most concede the attack deliberate. Was it mistaken identity? That’s the question.

    "One of the more controversial events of the 1960s was the Israeli attack on the US Intelligence ship USS Liberty that was conducting intelligence operations off the Sinai coast when she was attacked by Israeli forces. Some of the controversy comes from allegations that the attack was deliberate and that the US colluded in it. In recent years, some of the signals pertaining to this tragedy have been released from the National Archives. This includes the Liberty’s track chart and some intercepted Israeli messages. (ref-a)
    The idea of the attack on USS Liberty being deliberate always bothered me because the Israeli Air Force jets were not sent in loaded for sinking a ship (hence why they failed to sink it). They came in with small rockets and napalm bombs – those are ground-attack weapons.

    Stuart Slade has an alternative narrative I find more plausible – far more detailed, and revolving around Israeli incompetence and neglect of procedure

    The story of the attack on the USS Liberty started on June 2, 1967, when she left Rota in Spain for the Middle East. There, in addition to supplies, she had taken on three Marine Corps Arabic translators, augmenting the three NSA Russian-language experts already on board. At the time, she was operating under orders from the US Sixth Fleet to stay “outside an arc whose radius is 240 miles from [the Egyptian city of] Port Said.” This is where the first error of judgement took place. Her handlers in the National Security Agency ignored the order and directed the ship to a point just outside Egypt’s territorial waters, a mere 12.5 miles from Port Said. These orders were recently released by the National Archives and were apparently the result of a perceived need to intercept communications that were un-interceptable from the specified distance. The most significant of these were tactical dialogues between Egyptian officers and their Soviet advisers. At the time it was regarded as being essential to determine the depth of Soviet involvement in the Egyptian military operations (hence the embarkation of the additional translators).

    On hearing of the decision by the NSA handlers, the US Navy sent a total of five subsequent cables from their European headquarters, instructing the USS Liberty to pull back to at least 100 miles. This is where the second glitch came in. Those messages (also released from the National Archives) were misrouted via the Philippines, and none reached the ship in time. In fact, the JCS’ orders would not be received by the Liberty until June 9, by which time they would no longer be relevant. Whether the misrouting was an accident or an NSA effort to keep the ship on the close-in station longer remains unknown but there is strong circumstantial reason to believe that NSA had much to gain by such misrouting. The fact that the signals went via the Philippines is unchallenged; the interesting question is why and how.

    Approaching the Sinai coast at dawn on June 6, the Liberty’s skipper, Commander William L. McGonagle, was deeply concerned by the risk to his ship and requested a destroyer escort, only to be reminded by the commander of the Sixth Fleet that the “Liberty is a clearly marked United States ship in international waters … and not a reasonable subject for attack by any nation.” (National Archives) That’s glitch number three. It should be noted that the naval war was not going well for Israel at this point. The failure of the Israeli navy’s attacks on Egyptian and Syrian ports early in the war did little to assuage Israel’s fears. There was a very real fear in the Israeli command that Arab naval units (that outnumbered the Israeli fleet by 5:1) would launch attacks on the Israeli coast. Consequently, the IDF Chief of Staff, Gen. Yitzhak Rabin, informed the U.S. Naval Attaché in Tel Aviv, Cmdr. Ernest Carl Castle, that Israel would defend its coast with every means at its disposal. Unidentified vessels would be sunk, Rabin advised; the United States should advise the Israelis of any ships operating in the area. The information provided by the US did not include the Liberty. While this was happening, Israel renewed its request that the United States assign a naval liaison officer to facilitate its communications with the US Navy. Previous to the outbreak of fighting, Israeli Ambassador Avraham Harman had warned the White House that “if war breaks out, we would have no telephone number to call, no code for plane recognition, and no way to get in touch with the U.S. Sixth Fleet.” The United States never approved the appointment of a liaison officer, nor did it inform Israel of the Liberty’s arrival in the area. That’s glitch number four.

    By June 8 the Liberty was patrolling between Port Said and Gaza, in a lane rarely used by commercial freighters and declared by Egypt as off-limits to neutral shipping. The track chart has also been released from the National Archives. It shows the Liberty starting from a position very close to the Egyptian coast and moving out to take up a racetrack pattern track off the Sinai coast. On June 8, just before six o’clock in the morning, an Israeli pilot reported finding a naval craft (“gray, bulky, with its bridge amidships”) 70 miles west of Gaza. Note that Israeli pilots were not trained for maritime attack or recon and, like most pilots, a ship was a ship was a ship. Nevertheless although he did not report seeing a flag, he did make out the hull marking “GTR-5,” which was enough for Israeli commanders to identify the ship as the USS Liberty and to mark it as a neutral vessel on their control board. It’s worth noting that this was a manual plot, not a computerized system as we would use today for the same job. Manual control boards quickly become overloaded with data and have to be cleaned of old information regularly. (Ref b)

    At eleven o’clock in the morning, the watch at Israeli naval headquarters changed. The new officers, following procedures for removing old information and assuming the Liberty had sailed away, cleaned the board. For Israeli forces, the Liberty had ceased to exist. Glitch number five and a biggie. This is the one that was the proximate cause of the disaster. The Israeli officers here were culpably negligent in that they should have made sure a known US warship was out of the conflict area, not just assumed it was so. Unfortunately, the Israelis back then made a big thing out of their contempt for the routines, practices and doctrines employed by more established armed forces. In fact, they derided such practices as being typical of hidebound reactionaries; the Israeli Military Forces didn’t need all that nonsense about correct procedure. That attitude doomed Liberty.

    Now the situation began to escalate very quickly. Less than a half-hour later, Israeli soldiers in the Sinai coastal town of El Arish heard a violent explosion. The cause was probably either a detonation in an ammunition dump or an expended munition cooking off. However, these were rear echelon soldiers, freshly recalled reservists and were on edge – which is a polite way of saying panicky. They assumed it was enemy action, artillery fire, and reported it as such. Glitch number six. Now we have the old wildfire scenario. Because the explosion was reported as artillery fire, people began to look for the source – which was unlikely to be on land due to the tactical circumstances. If you look for something hard enough, you’ll find it even if it isn’t there. So, when the Israelis saw a ship off the coast, they assumed it was the source of the artillery fire – a warship doing shore bombardment. Just to make life complex, both Egyptian and Israeli sources had reported shelling of the area by Egyptian warships the previous day. A check with the situation board showed no friendly units or neutral ships in the area so it had to be hostile. Glitch number seven. Again, sloppy, poorly-disciplined officers making assumptions they shouldn’t. Another grievous fault for which they should be hung, drawn and quartered.

    Rabin was seriously concerned that the shelling was a prelude to an amphibious landing that could outflank advancing Israeli troops. Since no fighter planes were available, the navy was asked to intercede, with the assumption that air cover would be provided later. More than half an hour passed without any response from naval headquarters in Haifa. The General Staff finally issued a rebuke: “The coast is being shelled and you – the navy – have done nothing.” Capt. Izzy Rahav in the operations room, needed no more prodding. He dispatched three torpedo boats of the 914th squadron, code-named “Pagoda,” to find the enemy vessel responsible for the bombardment and destroy it. The 914th consisted of three torpedo boats, the Peress, the Tahmass and the Yasoor. These were 60 ton craft built by France in the early 1950s (the last had entered service in 1956). They were armed with two 17.7 inch torpedo tubes, one 40 millimeter gun and four 20 millimeter weapons. They were powered by two Napier deltic diesels for a designed top speed of around 42 knots. By 1967, they were aging and had lost the top edge of their performance; their maximum speed was down to 36 knots in smooth water.

    The commander of those craft, Commander Udi Erell, had rules of engagement that precluded him from engaging any ship doing less than 20 knots – which, in 1967 meant pretty well every merchant ship in the world. However, now we have the mentality of FAC guys coming in. They tend to be young, enthusiastic – and reckless. This commander interpreted “don’t shoot at ships doing less than 20 knots” as “fire on any vessel going faster than 20 knots”. Glitch 8 quickly followed by Glitch 9. FAC skippers don’t really understand how much they get slowed down by even moderate seas when bigger ships don’t. He was doing 35 knots but was only catching the target slowly. Ensign Aharon Yifrah, combat information officer aboard the flagship of these torpedo boats miscalculated their target’s speed as 30 knots, not realizing sea conditions had slowed his real speed to around 25. Again we have the sloppy attitude of the Israeli Armed Forces entering the picture. A properly-kept track chart on the lead FAC would have shown something was not right with the picture. But keeping such charts is part of the administrivia that the Israelis affected to despise. Again, we also have to add in the attitude of the FAC commander. He WANTED that ship to be a legitimate target; the Israeli Navy was being overshadowed by the Army and Air Force and he wanted a victory. So he jumped to a wrong conclusion because that was a conclusion he wanted to jump to. Based on this false presumption, they prepared to attack. Ref – D

    Now we have horrible coincidences joining errors of judgement and technical glitches. The Liberty reached the end of her patrol racetrack and turned onto bearing 238 – putting her course back toward Egypt. The FAC skippers saw this and assumed their target was running for home. Worried they would lose their prey, they reported to the sitrep room that their target was now fleeing for home.

    Israeli naval commanders called up the air force and asked for help from whatever was available. What was available were two Mirages returning from a bombing strike, they were armed only with 30 millimeter cannons and air-to-air missiles and were very short on fuel. Had this been a deliberate attack they would have carried a warload better suited for attacking a ship. Making two passes at 3,000 feet, the formation commander reckoned that the ship was a “Z” or Hunt-class destroyer without the deck markings (a white cross on a red background) of the Israeli navy (which also operated both classes). The command pilot then spoke with air force commander Gen. Motti Hod, who asked him repeatedly whether he could see a flag. They failed to see either flags or markings on the ship. Not surprising, again these were pilots who were not trained for maritime operations and didn’t have any knowledge of naval operations or ship recognition. History is replete with examples of such pilots grotesquely misidentifying ships; although this was an error, it cannot be held against the pilots.

    After two low sweeps by the lead plane, at 1:58 p.m., the Mirages were cleared to attack. For want of anything more potent, they strafed the ship they saw. (by the way, its pure luck – good or ill – that they didn’t shoot up the Israeli FAC – they just hit the first ship they saw). The first salvos caught the Liberty’s crew in “stand-down” mode; several officers were sunning themselves on the deck, unaware of the Israeli jets bearing down on them. Before they could take shelter, rockets and 30-mm cannon shells stitched the ship from bow to stern, severing the antennas and setting oil drums on fire. Nine men were killed in the initial assault, and several times that number wounded, among them McGonagle.

    Minutes later came a second group of planes, Super-Mysteres, equally ill-suited for a naval engagement. They had been diverted from a strike against Egyptian infantry positions and carried napalm (but had been diverted going out, not coming back so had a decent fuel reserve). They dropped their canisters and one set fire to the deck, enshrouding the ship in smoke. The air attacks lasted 14 minutes; by 2:20 the aircraft had finished with their assault.

    It was at this junction that one Israeli pilot finally recognized Latin, not Arabic, letters on the hull. He made a desperate emergency call to the Israeli air controllers causing them to call off the action immediately. Now we have glitch ten. The Israeli communications system in 1967 was basically WW2 equipment that had been overhauled and modernized. It was already overloaded with running a fast-moving mobile war and , thanks to a breakdown in that communications system, the message to the Navy was caught in a backlog of calls waiting to go out. Classic case of too much flow down too small a pipeline. As a result, the order was very long delayed in reaching the navy; it finally made it to the FACs just after 4:00 pm. ref e

    It is at this point that we have a minor mystery. One of the major claims is that the Israelis were jamming US radio frequencies in order to prevent calls from help getting out. If true, this would be powerful evidence to suggest that the attack was deliberate. There are, however, serious problems with this assertion. Firstly, the Liberty was a specialist electronic warfare ship and carried advanced ECCM equipment; it is hard to see how she could have been closed down so comprehensively. Secondly, the Israeli capability in EW at this time was virtually non-existent; neither aircraft nor the torpedo boats carried any ECM equipment. Thirdly, the communications equipment on the Liberty was such that jamming equipment would have to be placed within a series of carefully-defined positions relative to the ship and fourthly, any jamming capable of taking down US Navy communications so comprehensively would have affected a wide area. No such jamming was reported anywhere else by anybody. This leaves only three possible explanations for the alleged jamming (1) The crewmen on Liberty who reported such jamming are lying, (2) the reports that crewmen made such claims are fabricated or (3) whatever happened wasn’t jamming. If we discount (1) we are left with either fabrication or something else. The accusations made against the Israelies feature extensive fabrication so (2) is certainly possible but the most likely explanation is that the Liberty had already been strafed and napalmed with over 800 holes in her. The entire superstructure of the ship, from the main deck to the bridge, was aflame.The “jamming” was probably simply battle damage that had knocked out the ships wave guides and antennas.

    There now followed a lull in the action that lasted for 24 minutes while the Israeli torpedo boats caught up with the Liberty. Think about the geometry of this. They are sailing out to attack a ship offshore that has just turned away from them. That means they are in a tail chase. Now the Liberty was rated at 17.7 knots – lets say she had cranked up her engines and was doing 16. The Israeli FAC are rated at 40 knots – meaning at best the closing speed is 24 knots. However, in any sort of rough sea its unlikely they were doing more than 30 knots and possibly were down to 25. So that gives us a closing speed of (at best) 16 knots and possibly as little as 8. However, at those speeds, the FAC are bouncing all over the place and are throwing up large clouds of spray. The vibration is intense and the noise is deafening. Incidently, these are not the modern 200 – 400 ton, 56-meter missile craft, they are 70 foot MTBs, 10 feet shorter than a US WW2 PT boat (albeit somewhat heavier that the 35 – 45 ton PT boats). Ref f

    Now its reasonable to assume the Liberty had her stern to the FAC. Think about this. The Flag is at the stern, the ship is heading away from the FAC that are chasing her from astern. That means they are seeing the Flag (if they see it at all) edge-on from the rear. Their only hope of recognizing it is if it flutters from side to side. So to state the Israelies must have seen the Flag, we have to ask the two guys on the bridge to recognize a fluttering flag edge-on from a range of 4 to 8 miles from a 60 ton speedboat bouncing around in a cloud of spray while being shaken to pieces by two 4,000 shaft horsepower diesels running flat out. Now add in that the Liberty had been hit by a tank of napalm and was burning – in other words there were clouds of black smoke around her making visibility intermittant. Suddenly, it doesn’t seem so easy does it? ref g

    At this point the Israeli flagship signaled “AA” – “identify yourself.” Due to damaged equipment, McGonagle could only reply in kind, AA, with a hand-held Aldis lamp. Now we have a weird coincidence – Udi Erell’s father had been in command of a 1956 operation where the Israeli Navy had captured the Egyptian destroyer Ibrahim al-Awwal. This ship had tried to pose as a neutral ship when the israeli force closed in and had also replied to the interrogatory AA by responding with a repeat AA. There is little doubt Udi Erell was familiar with that story as family history and was sure that he now faced an enemy ship.

    Now we have another glitch, number 11. One of the American sailors on board, disregarded Captain McGonagle’s order not to fire on the approaching craft, and opened up with a deck gun. (ref h) Another machinegun opened fire by itself when fired cooked off its ready-use ammunition. Erell repeatedly requested permission from naval headquarters to return fire. Rahav finally approved.

    The Israeli FAC skipper also jumped to the assumption that the ship in front of him was Egyptian (Glitch 12), consulted his intelligence manual, identified it as the Egyptian naval freighter El Quseir, This identification has been criticised on grounds that the El Quseir was smaller than the Liberty and lacked her distinctive antennas. In reality, the El Quseir was laid up in Alexandria and its asserted (without proof) that “the Israelies must have known that”. Its also pointed out (quite correctly) that the Israeli FAC had a copy of JFS on board. Consulting a copy of the relevent edition of that publication, it does indeed list both Liberty and El Quseir – but includes photographs of neither. Rather pathetically, those who dispute the identification point out that the El Quseir was painted silver rather than the Liberty’s Haze Gray. In reality, under the circumstances prevailing, telling the difference between dirty silver and shiny gray is very hard – especially since both would have taken on a blue tinge by reflection from the surrounding sea and sky. However, all thats irrelevent since we now have Glitch 13 – he wasn’t trying to find out “which ship is this” he was looking for “which Egyptian Ship looks most like the one in front of me”

    The FAC commander elected to fire torpedoes. Now lets look at those torpedoes. They are not modern 21 inch jobs. The FAC in question were armed with World War Two ex-Italian 17.7 inch torpedoes. These had a 440 pound warhead and had a speed of 30 knots to 8,000 meters (ref i) . Distinctly lacking in range speed and striking power. Also unguided; there is no way a torpedo like that is aimed at any specific part of the ship. At 2:45 the Israeli FAC fired five torpedoes at a range of 6,000 meters for a single hit at around 2:50. This killed 25 men almost all of them from the intelligence section.

    The torpedo boats then closed in and from 3:00 onwards circled the ship, from the stern spraying it with 20 millimeter and 40 millimeter gunfire. When they reached the bows, the captain of one boat saw “GTR-5″ on the hull. He immediately halted fire, extended help to the Liberty, and called for rescue helicopters. For the first time in the whole stupid story somebody did something right. Two Israeli Helicopters reached the Liberty and offered assistance. Erell, shouting through a bullhorn, also tried to communicate with the ship but Captain McGonagle refused to respond. Realizing, finally, that his assailants had been Israeli, he flagged the torpedo boats away and made a gesture that the Israelies describe as “obscene, but under the circumstances, understandable”. By 5:05 p.m., the Israelis had broken off contact, and the Liberty, navigating virtually without systems, with 34 dead and 171 wounded aboard, staggered out to sea.

    I must make it quite clear that I do not condone the Israeli conduct in this affair; their performance was lacking even the earliest signs of competance and their professional negligence was profoundly culpable. They screwed up royally and deserve all the blame that can be ladled over their brainless heads. But they didn’t do it deliberately. 13 bad mistakes, errors of judgement and horrible coincidences. Its right to be enraged with the Israelis for their sloppy staffwork, lax procedures and inattention to detail caused them to launch an attack against a neutral ship. It is indeed with them that the ultimate blame lies for it is the Israeli disregard for careful procedure and their deliberate neglect of proper administration that caused the disaster. Their arrogant assumption that they alone had the secret of how to run a modern war and nobody else knew any part of it was largely to blame for the tragedy. Martin Van Creveld describes the Israeli attitude to proper procedure and to administrative advice as being arrogant bordering on boorish and frequently deliberately bullying, rude and offensive. (ref j) The US Navy also has some share of the blame for there should have been a liaison officer to provide a direct point of contact. Even after she was hit, the Americans had difficulty locating the Liberty, the JCS placing it at “60-100 miles north of Egypt.” If neither the US Navy nor even the President of the United States could know where the Liberty was, it seems unreasonable to expect that the Israelis, in the thick of battle, should have been able to locate it. The NSA must carry its share for keeping the ship dangerously close to the enemy coast and ignoring navy advice.

    A year later the destroyer Eilat was sunk by the same combination of blundering incompetence, stupidity and arrogance (three Egyptian missiles had something to do with it as well). (ref k) . Indeed, for those investigating the attack on Liberty, the command disasters involved in the sinking of the Eilat should be required reading. The same factors of boorish arrogance, incompetence, inadequate command control, defective equipment and long-delayed communications make their miserable appearnace.

    Six years after the Liberty incident, another Israeli Navy warship, the Miznak went into action. She was on her way to assist Hanit that had run aground on a sandbar off the Sinai coast. The captain (Captain Barkai) gave orders for the Miznak to keep out of a 45 kilometer circle around Port Said due to the danger of missile attack. He then went to his cabin and slept. The second in command (Udi Erell) was duty officer in the CIC. He was dozing in the CIC Ops Chair when he was struck by the silence in room. The Ops crew were asleep. Worse, the Miznak was heading on a straight line for Port said and was already well within the 45 kilometer danger zone. EW was off, the radar watch was asleep, helm was asleep. And the instruments were telling the crew that Egyptian missile craft were coming out of port. Commander Erell literally kicked the CIC crew into wakefulness as Captain Moshe Tabak, the group commander sent an in-clear radio warning of an impending attack (in clear because Miznak had not responded to coded radio signals – cypher room was asleep as well). Udi Erell slammed the throttles forward personally and swung the boat through 180 degrees. As he did so he saw the launch signature of P-15 missiles on the horizon. Four P-15s had been fired by two Project 183R (Komar) FAC-M and were already on their way. One went into the sea when its gyros tumbled, a second went into the sea far astern, the third overshot and landed in the sea three miles ahead of Miznak and the fourth exploded in the sea 100 meters aft of Miznak. (ref l)

    Why is this incident so significant? Note the name of the operations officer on Mizhak – Udi Erell. In 1967 he had commanded a squadron of three FAC. Six years later, in 1973, he had been demoted to the ops officer of one such craft. Yet Udi Erell is the son of Shlomo Erell, the Chief of Staff of the Israeli Navy. Despite being VIP’s son, the Israeli Navy really busted Udi Erell’s chops. If it was a conspiracy they’d have found somebody else less well-connected to be the scapegoat.

    References:

    Ref a – Documents relating to the Liberty incident – papers released from the National Archives. This includes the Liberty track chart, transcripts of the Liberty signal log, intercepts of Israeli signals and statements by crew and captain. In short, the bulk of the declassified US official documentation.

    Ref b The Sword and the Olive by Martin van Creveld. This places great stress on the total obsolescence of the Israeli C3I system and the very poor command structure of the Israeli armed forces.

    Ref c Information from the Israeli side taken from evidence given at enquiries on the Liberty attack.

    Ref d Boats of Cherbourg by Abraham Rabinovitch details the Israeli Navy;s appalling discipline and sloppy incompetance. The comments are all the more devastating because the author doesn’t realize the impact of the matters he’s relating.

    ref f Again, The Sword and The Olive details the hopelessly bad command structure of the Israeli Armed Forces.

    Ref f Janes Fighting Ships 1966 – 67. 3 of Israel’s FAC were old RN boats built in 1942, six were French built in 1950 and the most modern were three built in Italy in 1956

    ref g This is a point anybody with a speedboat can check for themselves.

    ref h Captain McGonagle’s statement to the Liberty Enquiry. National Archives.

    ref i Bagnasco Submarines of WW2 for details of these torpedoes.

    Ref j The Sword and the Olive by Martin van Creveld. It should be noted that four of Van Creveld’s sons have served in the IDF.

    ref k Boats of Cherbourg by Abraham Rabinovitch The sheer incompetence surrounding the sinking of the Eilat is breathtaking – but another story. I believe that a US or UK skipper losing his ship in such a manner would be charged with manslaughter.

    Ref l Boats of Cherbourg by Abraham Rabinovitch (again). The Miznak story defies belief. Its impossible to conceive of any professional navy (or most amateur ones) behaving in such a manner. The story is given veracity by Rabinovitchs treatment of the events – his cast being it showed how hard the Israeli Navy was fighting. Van Creveld shows in The Sword and the Olive that even by 1973, the basic problems with the IDF command structure had not been fixed."

  176. @Pueblo
    Why Pueblo? I had been a sigint ship equipped with brand new life recording technics of the full radio frequency spectrum buildt by Hewlett Packard. It included advanced IT processing equipment with a large magnetic-core storage unit. Hewlett Packard equipped the Pueblo for a field test of its technology for a major Pentagon bid free of charge. The competitor Raytheon organised a false flag to kill the Hewlett Packard bid (likely in cooperation with the US deep state which used the incident to trigger the Xmas bombings on North Vietnam) and subsequently to take over HP after the loss of this huge investment.

    Interesting background info re HP and USS Pueblo – thank you.

    However, the USS Pueblo was seized by North Korea, not North Vietnam.

    Read More
  177. Anonymous says:     Show CommentNext New Comment
    @jilles dykstra
    Its is asserted that Eisenhower was a jew.
    How he hated Germans can be read in
    James Bacque, ´Der geplante Tod, Deutsche Kriegsgefangene in amerikanischen und französischen Lagern 1945 – 1946, Frankfurt/M, 1989, 1994 (Other losses, Toronto, 1989).
    Eisenhower writes in a letter "we should have killed more Germans".

    What does Eisenhower’s alleged Jewish ancestry and hatred of Germans have to do with Eisenhower’s position on the attempted 1956 attempted Suez Canal takeover?

    Absolutely nothing

    So why did you post it except to show off your so called knowledge of Eisenhower? Having English relatives and having lived in Germany I know that “educated” Europeans consider all Americans to be ignorant morons from Hillbilly Holler.

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  178. @geokat62

    What percentage of your average day do you spend obsessing over jews ?
     
    Sorry, anon. What we're obsessing about is power. And you have to admit organized Jewry wield tremendous power. Don't you recall how many standing ovations King Bibi was treated to by the bought and paid for members of Congress? Don't you recall how upset they were when Rand Paul's applause was deemed less than enthusiastic? Informed people can't help but notice who has disproportionate power and it is only to be expected that they feel obliged to point that out.

    Trust this answers your question.

    You raise a very profound point, Geo.

    Why is there an urgent NEED for a “special prosecutor” to investigate the influence of a foreign power on our political system ,when it ‘s RUSSIA, ……but No NEED whatsoever , when its King BIBI and Israel?

    Have any of our MSM outlets ever even broached this subject ?

    If not , why not ?

    Is the issue of “influence peddling” only germane when “some countries” are influential…but not OTHERS ?

    Who made THIS the law of the land?..Who says it’s “just” ?…..and why ?

    Read More
    • Replies: @RobinG
    The investigation we need now is the murder of SETH RICH.

    The whole "Impeach Trump" campaign is focused on Russian connections and alleged Russian hacking of DNC emails. Whatever anyone thinks of our legally elected President Trump, it is the office of the Presidency that is being fraudulently attacked. The Trump-haters are suppressing any information about the murder of Seth Rich, who may have leaked the DNC emails in question. That would be a leak, not a hack, and it would throw the Dems' corruption case into the toilet.

    Demand an investigation.

    Appoint a Special Prosecutor to investigate the murder of Seth Rich, the alleged Wikileaks email leaker.
     
    https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/appoint-special-prosecutor-investigate-murder-seth-rich-alleged-wikileaks-email-leaker

    On July 10, 2016, Seth Rich was shot twice in the early morning as he walked back to his house in Washington D.C. Immediately after the crime, the death was called an armed robbery... but none of Seth Rich's belongings were taken from him.

    Rod Wheeler, a private investigator hired by the family, said that there was evidence Seth Rich had contacted WikiLeaks and that law enforcement were covering this up. MSM is not covering this murder, instead pushing it to the side, so it is now up to us.

    The facts do not add up, law enforcement stopped covering the crime, and now it is time for us to fight for justice. Seth Rich deserves this.
     
    , @Miro23

    Why is there an urgent NEED for a “special prosecutor” to investigate the influence of a foreign power on our political system ,when it ‘s RUSSIA, ……but No NEED whatsoever , when its King BIBI and Israel?

    Have any of our MSM outlets ever even broached this subject ?

    If not , why not ?
     
    If not , why not? - Because the US is a Neo-Medieval society.

    Medieval Europe was run by an Aristocracy-Church alliance for their own interests. They had courts, prosecutors etc., however there was one law for the Aristocracy/Church and another for commoners.

    No Medieval "special prosecutor" with any sense was going to take up commoner complaints against members of the Aristocracy or the Church. The commoner was more likely to be arrested and taken out of circulation as a troublemaker or "heretic".

    The US Congress is a sycophantic piece of window dressing with as much relevance as the old Soviet "Parliament" or Saddam Hussein's "Elected Representatives". For example, when Congress is addressed by Binjamín Natanyahu, members are required to clap loudly with standing ovations while they are being filmed.

    In this way, the lack of enthusiasm in Ran Paul clapping could be noted and a video handed to the MSM to deal with:

    Jennifer Rubin (Washington Post) Tweet 4th March 2015

    "Unenthused Rand Paul Lifelessly Applauds Bibi http://bit.ly/1Ef1wm8 OOps.. almost like he has been faking his support for Israel until now."
     
    That was all that was needed to get him back into line. He said:

    “Israel is and has always been America’s friend and ally. I was pleased to hear Prime Minister Netanyahu’s speech to Congress today, and join him in calling for peace and standing together for our mutual interests,” Paul said.

    “It is important to work together to prevent a nuclear Iran, and the spread of Radical Islam,” he added.
     
  179. @L.K
    Indeed, you are a troll... that is about the only thing you got right in your idiotic rant, inZitatus.

    Listen, imbecile, as far as conspiracies go, the US government official story re 9-11 IS a conspiracy theory, except it does not have a leg to stand on, it contains more holes than most Hollywood movie scripts...

    BTW, I hear there is a new flick that is right down your alley... 'wonder woman'...
    Israeli lead, German villains, and the best part of it is...
    It is all fiction, much like the ridiculous holohoax & its mythical gas chambers, 6 trillion, nieh, nieh.

    “….troll…idiotic…rant…imbecile…holohoax… mythical gas chambers…6 trillion…”

    Catnip alert! Meow, meow, meow!

    “…it [the official 9/11 theory] contains more holes than most Hollywood movie scripts…”

    You’re the expert in movie scripts L.K. Indeed, rather too many of them?

    You posit the official story false, but award the GWBush administration superhuman powers without explaining any mechanics. Their explanation is blatant criminal negligence consistent with their total incompetence in Katrina and Iraq ‘03. How could such bumblers pull off an inside job on 9/11?

    More important, you vomit fantasy instead of pressing for criminal charges for admitted failures in the official 9/11 story (let alone conspiracy and aggressive war in Iraq ‘03). Really concerned, or is it just a little itch you like to scratch that makes you feel better?

    ‘Wonder Women’? She’s nothing on you!

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  180. @Incitatus
    Anon,

    Not necessarily sane or analytical, but here goes:

    “...I am not...convinced that it [attack on the Liberty] was an Israeli...decision at the highest level...”

    We’re all guessing. Hard to believe the coordination of air force and navy wouldn’t rise to the highest IDF level, if not higher. Israel takes pride in competence, and there’s no reason to discount them. At the same time it's doubtful they’d underestimate the force necessary to kill all witnesses and sink the ship if that was their goal. Could have been (they tried hard enough). Most concede the attack deliberate. Was it mistaken identity? That’s the question.

    “None of the motives suggested are so compelling...to be accepted...”

    Agreed. Conspiracies seem far fetched. Nuking Cairo? False flags? Israeli soldiers sworn to secrecy? LBJ or Macnamara planning involvement? Utter nonsense (my opinion).

    That said, this isn’t my first USS Liberty rodeo: http://www.unz.com/pgiraldi/aipac-is-back-in-town/#new_comments
    post #225, #250, #268, #292, #316 (31 Mar - 4 Apr 2017)

    As stated there, ‘Attack on the Liberty’ and James Bamford’s ‘The Cover-Up’ (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2001/aug/08/israel) differ significantly from the official US and Israeli accounts. Some of Bamford’s points:

    IDF motive: To attack and sink an Egyptian destroyer steaming at 30 knots after it shelled El Arish.
    Bamford: Liberty was easily distinguished from a warship, lacked heavy guns and sprouted spy antenna masts. It was clearly marked (Latin markings, ensigns - sailors hoisted a second large ensign during the attack). It was steaming at 5 knots (top speed well below 30 knots). IDF surveilled Liberty regularly for over six hours prior to the attack, at one point with friendly acknowledgment. Crewman Larry Weaver: “I was actually able to wave to the co-pilot. He waved back and actually smiled at me - I could see him that well. There's no question about it. They had seen the ship's markings and the American flag.”

    IDF explanation: mistaken identity.
    Bamford: IDF prolonged close surveillance (including friendly acknowledgment), followed by communication jamming, cannon fire, machine guns, rockets, napalm, 1000-lb bombs, torpedoes, and strafing life rafts. An attack thus varied and sustained seems unlikely mistaken or authored by mistaken judgment on behalf of the Israeli commanders on site (let alone further up the chain).

    Was Israel truly regretful? Let Bamford tell it:

    “In the days following the attack, the Israeli government gave the US government a classified report that attempted to justify the claim that the attack was a mistake. On the basis of that same report, an Israeli court of inquiry completely exonerated the government and all those involved. No one was ever court-martialled, reduced in rank or even reprimanded. On the contrary, Israel chose instead to honour motor torpedo boat 203, which fired the deadly torpedo at the Liberty. The ship's wheel and bell were placed on prominent display at the naval museum, among the maritime artefacts of which the Israeli navy was most proud.”

    Israel claims a grievous mistake, fails to find any fault, and enshrines torpedo boat 203 as heroic? Comments Anon?

    War unleashed is rarely rational. The ‘67 War was an audacious gamble for nascent Israel. Raw memories of Ike’s humbling restraint in Suez ‘56 may have been fresh. Why tolerate loose ends that risk defeat? Trust no one. Better to eliminate all unknowns, anything that imperils success. The universal war code: do all that’s necessary to win. Eliminate all unknowns. The rest will sort itself out. And so they did (my uneducated guess).

    “surely [it’s] time to declassify everything.”

    Couldn’t agree more.

    [Anon] “…I am not…convinced that it [attack on the Liberty] was an Israeli…decision at the highest level…”

    We’re all guessing. Hard to believe the coordination of air force and navy wouldn’t rise to the highest IDF level, if not higher.

    With respect, I suspect the question was meant in a different sense.

    Everyone here seems to agree that the Israeli government intentionally ordered the coordinated air-sea attack on the USS Liberty – the attack does not seem to have been an instance of erroneous “friendly fire.”

    I read the question as asking whether the decision to attack was an Israeli decision in the sense that the idea originated with the Israeli government.

    The alternative, of course, would be that LBJ and McNamara ordered Israel to attack and sink the USS Liberty as a pretext to enable the U.S. to launch an attack – possibly nuclear – against Egypt. Under this scenario, the Israeli government would have received the U.S. order and “decided” to implement the U.S. order by issuing instructions to the respective IDF units that carried out the attack.

    Remember that we are talking about the same LBJ/McNamara who are KNOWN to have staged the Gulf of Tonkin spectacle (against North Vietnam) in 1964 and the USS Pueblo incident (against North Korea) in 1968.

    Two points need to be addressed by any theory seeking to explain what happened:

    (1) As I have pointed out many times, radar and radio surveillance technology in 1967 easily enabled the U.S. to identify the source of the coordinated attacks in real time. In addition, U.S. intelligence assets in Egypt and Israel would quickly have advised the U.S. of what actually happened.

    This means that the U.S. could not have been hoodwinked, nor would the Israeli government have thought for even a second that they would be able to hoodwink the U.S. leadership. Public statements from both sides may deny this, but the state of technology in 1967 makes any claim of U.S. ignorance laughable.

    (2) What did the Israeli government THINK the attack on an intelligence asset operated by their most important de facto ally would achieve?

    Again, whatever may have been said in public, the idea that the U.S. leadership would think for even a second that Egypt had attacked the USS Liberty is risible, so this could not have been the intention of the Israeli government unless one posits a sudden outbreak of collective insanity.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anon
    No, Incitatus understood my questions well enough and gave in return reason to imagine the back and forth amongst the IDF tough guys who did such a botched job (whatever the job was intended to be). Remember btw that the IDF delegated authority more and with better justification than other countries' forces.
    , @Miro23

    Again, whatever may have been said in public, the idea that the U.S. leadership would think for even a second that Egypt had attacked the USS Liberty is risible, so this could not have been the intention of the Israeli government unless one posits a sudden outbreak of collective insanity.
     
    It's not necessary to posit a "sudden outbreak of collective insanity".

    Psychology is not a very reliable science, but a basic finding is that past behaviour is a useful predictor of future behaviour .

    Both Israel and Johnson had a record of staged False Flag attacks (Israel: the King David Hotel bombing and the Lavon Affair, and Johnson: Gulf of Tonkin - interestingly involving an American intelligence ship).

    The American leadership (i.e. Johnson & McNamara ) didn't need to think for even a second that Egypt had attacked the USS Liberty. They knew they hadn't, but what mattered was the public perception.

    As usual, the idea was to channel manufactured national outrage towards, war - exactly the same as 9/11 with its mountain of fakery. Israel and their client Johnson wanted the US involved in the 6 Day War, specifically at war with Egypt.

    Johnson was a traitor plain and simple. Philip F.Nelson makes a strong case that he was also at the centre of the Kennedy assassination ("LBJ: The Mastermind of the Kennedy Assassination") https://www.amazon.com/LBJ-Mastermind-Assassination-Phillip-Nelson/dp/1620876108/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1496901862&sr=8-5&keywords=lbj

    , @Incitatus
    ee

    I agree the attack was cleared (leastwise post facto at the inquiry) at the highest level. But what was the order? To attack a US ship? Doubtful. More likely - neutralize all unknowns in the war zone with overwhelming force. The Liberty, given Suez ‘56 and it’s potential to feed intelligence to enemies, was - ultimately - an unknown.

    You assert “their most important de facto ally” was the USA. Doubt Israel thought they had (or could afford) any allies. In any case, their major aircraft supplier was France.

    A tiny country gambles all in attacking neighbors to obtain strategic objectives for posterity (existence). There are no fall backs: in the event of failure, defeat and extinction loom in their minds. Suez in ‘56 paints the US as unreliable, a source of disaster regardless of what LBJ might say.

    Can’t believe LBJ and McNamara were involved in any planning. Both knew how to sort out events to their best advantage after they happened. Loyalty to the USA is fine, but worthless if personal succession is jeopardized. Spin excuses and move on. They both deserve years in Hell.

    Don’t blame Israel. Well, that’s not quite true. They still haven’t produced a reasonable explanation for the incident. The victims deserve better.
  181. anon says:     Show CommentNext New Comment
    @RobinG
    Israel is 100% more responsible than Alawites for casualties in Syria. The shrill and desperate hasbara lies from Tel Aviv's troll army are getting more ugly and more absurd while Israel becomes weaker and more reviled.

    http://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/who-is-destroying-syria/
    Who Is Destroying Syria?
    The Arab Gulf States, Israel, and Turkey all prefer anarchy to Assad
    .
    By Philip Giraldi • May 3, 2017

    Assad government did the killing.
    Alawites don’t have agency now ??

    The Alawite dictatorship has been a murder machine since Hafez illregaly seized power in a coup.

    In October of 1982 Syria killed more people than Israel has in the past 100 years. Syria also killed half a million people over the past 5 years. Syria,was also complicit in the Beirut bombing of a USA marine barracks that left hundreds of Americans killed.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    What does Syria and Assad have to do with the attack on the liberty? Assad was only 2 years old when the Israelis murdered 34 navy personnel and destroyed a 40 million dollar ship.

    Please explain how Syria and Assad were involved when he was 2 years old.
  182. anon says:     Show CommentNext New Comment
    @Rurik

    So Israel, able to defeat multiple Arab armies and airforces in a matter of days, was only able to kill about 1/5 of the people on an unarmed ship?
     
    the only way Israel could ever survive even one day is with American weapons and expertise, and of course their well documented treachery.

    they are notorious cowards and inept soldiers. Why else would they do all they could to get others to do their fighting for them?

    why else would Ariel Sharon use Lebanese Phalange militias to slaughter the women and children of Sabra and Shatila? There was the possibility that one of the women or children might have picked up a sharp object or table leg and throttled one of the little Zio-boyz with it. Better to hide from a distance and get others to fight for you, huh?

    Hell, even the Israeli government was so appalled at Sharon's brazen cowardice that they charged him with a war crime for that little incident.

    Just look at how a few ragtag Hezbollah troops can defeat the entire IDF with a fraction of the weaponry and nearly infinite toys the IDF has courtesy the ZUSA tax payer, but it's all for nothing when the weapons are in the hands of cowards and incompetents.

    look at em all huddled down on their bellies with a sniper rifle to shoot children from the roof top

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=De8g_LAHh_0

    and then if that isn't stomach turning enough, the brave IDF soldier even congratulates his colleague for shooting a child! Wow, what gallantry! What valor!

    I'm surprised the IDF got as far as they did with the USS Liberty, since it did have a machine gun on deck and a few of the officers had side arms. And who know if they were able to call for help. In fact, as I understand it, the reason the IDF called off the attack is because they heard that jets were scrambled to assist the Liberty, and they wanted no part of a fair fight. So sure, they tried to sink her with all hands, but endemic cowardice and notorious incompetence saved the day.

    Hey Mr. Happy !!!!!
    To summarize your word salad :

    Israel controls the world while at the same time being inept cowards.

    Keep it up . You are making total sense !!!!!!

    Read More
    • Replies: @Rurik

    Israel controls the world while at the same time being inept cowards.
     
    they don't control the world, but they do control our fecal congress and our media, and the only way they were able to pull that off is because Woodrow Wilson gave them the keys to our Treasury. Trust me "anon", if I had access to trillions of dollars of wealth, that I could lend out to my buddies and force the American tax slave to pay me interest on the money I lent out, and could give my buddies interest free loans and tell them when to short certain markets and have the fecal gov bail me and my buddies out when our casino bets went bad, well then "anon", I can promise you that there'd be some serious changes in the way business was conducted around here.

    All the war criminals would find themselves at the Hague but pronto.

    all the banksters would be in pound-arse prison for a combined thousands + years

    the American people would finally be able to vote on genuine patriots that serve their interests, and not the interests of a criminal foreign rogue state.

    so many things would change, if only I owned the Federal Reserve Bank instead of international Jewish supremacists.

    I'd return them to the 1948 borders and force them to compensate every single Palestinian for any and all property that the Jews have stolen from the Arabs. I'd force them to pay massive reparations for the myriad and heinous crimes they've committed over the decades.

    I'd do so many things "anon". Every single deepstate agent responsible for the USS Liberty would be brought to justice, and hanged by the neck until they stopped dancing. Ditto 9/11.

    the media would return to informing the public honestly and entertaining them with art that exalts the human spirit, rather than squalid potty culture.

    there's just so many things that would change if only our congress would coin our currency as the Constitution demands, rather than handing that privilege over to the world's greediest banksters and notorious cowards.

    yea, when it comes to financial treachery and chicanery, my hat is off to the Jews. They're second to none, and none come close. But in combat, something tells me I'd rather have a German or a Russian at me back. I'd prefer Max or Vlad if I'm going to be in a fight, and not Irving or Moshe so much.
  183. Anonymous says:     Show CommentNext New Comment
    @Quartermaster
    The Liberty incident was not covered up. It was investigated and the problem was that 6th Fleet HQ had informed the Israelis we did not have any ships in the region. Flying a false flag is not illegal under international law, as long as the ship is not engaged in hostilities.

    Israel admitted their mistake and paid reparations. Giraldi is simply promulgating a conspiracy theory.

    6 million for a 40 million ship plus 34 dead and 140 or so wounded is not really reparations.

    If Israel did not control the US, 34 wrongful death settlements and reimbursing military military care for the wounded would come to far more than 6 million. Israel didn’t pay the 6 million anyway. Craven US gave the 6 million compensation money to Israel. Then Israel graciously gave it back to America.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Skeptikal
    Huh. That is similar to the USA paying Israel to aid in the settlement of Russian Jews in Israhell.
    The USA just keeps paying paying paying.
  184. @anon
    Hey Mr. Happy !!!!!
    To summarize your word salad :

    Israel controls the world while at the same time being inept cowards.

    Keep it up . You are making total sense !!!!!!

    Israel controls the world while at the same time being inept cowards.

    they don’t control the world, but they do control our fecal congress and our media, and the only way they were able to pull that off is because Woodrow Wilson gave them the keys to our Treasury. Trust me “anon”, if I had access to trillions of dollars of wealth, that I could lend out to my buddies and force the American tax slave to pay me interest on the money I lent out, and could give my buddies interest free loans and tell them when to short certain markets and have the fecal gov bail me and my buddies out when our casino bets went bad, well then “anon”, I can promise you that there’d be some serious changes in the way business was conducted around here.

    All the war criminals would find themselves at the Hague but pronto.

    all the banksters would be in pound-arse prison for a combined thousands + years

    the American people would finally be able to vote on genuine patriots that serve their interests, and not the interests of a criminal foreign rogue state.

    so many things would change, if only I owned the Federal Reserve Bank instead of international Jewish supremacists.

    I’d return them to the 1948 borders and force them to compensate every single Palestinian for any and all property that the Jews have stolen from the Arabs. I’d force them to pay massive reparations for the myriad and heinous crimes they’ve committed over the decades.

    I’d do so many things “anon”. Every single deepstate agent responsible for the USS Liberty would be brought to justice, and hanged by the neck until they stopped dancing. Ditto 9/11.

    the media would return to informing the public honestly and entertaining them with art that exalts the human spirit, rather than squalid potty culture.

    there’s just so many things that would change if only our congress would coin our currency as the Constitution demands, rather than handing that privilege over to the world’s greediest banksters and notorious cowards.

    yea, when it comes to financial treachery and chicanery, my hat is off to the Jews. They’re second to none, and none come close. But in combat, something tells me I’d rather have a German or a Russian at me back. I’d prefer Max or Vlad if I’m going to be in a fight, and not Irving or Moshe so much.

    Read More
    • Agree: anarchyst
    • Replies: @anon

    they don’t control the world, but they do control our fecal congress and our media,
     
    What about the European governments and media ? They must be controlled by Jews as well.
    Surely they are only flooding their own countries with Muslims and provoking the native population not to procreate because of the hand of the Jew ?? And what about Turki and Libya? . Surely they are controlled by Jews as well , as they are the mechanism of flooding Europe with Muslims . Surely the good Muslims of Turki and Libya are not flooding Europe and impending white genocide on their own volition . Surely the Jew must be in control of that evil as well ?? Could inept cowards really pull all of this off so smoothly ??


    I’d return them to the 1948 borders and force them to compensate every single Palestinian for any and all property that the Jews have stolen from the Arabs. I’d force them to pay massive reparations for the myriad and heinous crimes they’ve committed over the decades
     
    Jordan is occupying 78% of Palestine. what would your plans be for them ?
    Tell me about the compensation package you would offer to the following countries that all receive US aid :
    Sudan -Occupation of Darfur -700,000 killed ; Indonesia - Occupation of Papua -500,000 killed.
    Turki-occupation of Kurdistan and Cyprus - 80,000 killed ; Morocco = Occupation of Western Sahara - 40,000 killed ; Entirety of Israel - Palestinian conflict - 23,000 killed
  185. @anon
    The MSM doesnt cover the Indonesian occupation and genocide in West Papua or Maluku. Nor do they cover the Moroccan occupation and war crimes in Western Sahara . The Turkish occupation of Cyprus is ignored by the MSM . The apartheid in all Islamic countries where converting to Christianity is a death penalty offense. Why does Giraldi ignore these stories but has a dozen posts about USS Liberty if he is interested in shedding light on MSM oversights and cover ups.

    Why does Giraldi ignore these stories but has a dozen posts about USS Liberty if he is interested in shedding light on MSM oversights and cover ups.

    Because – unlike YOU – he loves America FIRST.

    Peace — Art

    p.s. Your utter dishonesty is disgusting!

    p.s. Your comments screech JEW!

    Read More
    • Agree: geokat62
    • Replies: @anon

    Because – unlike YOU – he loves America FIRST.
     
    Then he should be most upset with Syria , who was complicit in the marine barracks bombing in Beirut in 1982 . You see that had American casualties of 241 killed. USS Liberty only had casualties of 35 killed. Furthermore the barracks bombing was deliberate murder whereas USS Liberty was a mistake . Also USS Liberty was a very long time ago and nothing of the sort ever happened again from the Israelis. Conversely the Beirut bombing of US marines was more recent.So by every metric , Syria is far worse .

    p.s. Your comments screech JEW
     
    !
    That is superiour to your comments that screech : Loser , social outcast , mentally deranged , dim witted , friendless , mentally sick , obsessed with Jews and totally unhappy .
  186. anon says:     Show CommentNext New Comment
    @Art
    Why does Giraldi ignore these stories but has a dozen posts about USS Liberty if he is interested in shedding light on MSM oversights and cover ups.

    Because - unlike YOU - he loves America FIRST.

    Peace --- Art

    p.s. Your utter dishonesty is disgusting!

    p.s. Your comments screech JEW!

    Because – unlike YOU – he loves America FIRST.

    Then he should be most upset with Syria , who was complicit in the marine barracks bombing in Beirut in 1982 . You see that had American casualties of 241 killed. USS Liberty only had casualties of 35 killed. Furthermore the barracks bombing was deliberate murder whereas USS Liberty was a mistake . Also USS Liberty was a very long time ago and nothing of the sort ever happened again from the Israelis. Conversely the Beirut bombing of US marines was more recent.So by every metric , Syria is far worse .

    p.s. Your comments screech JEW

    !
    That is superiour to your comments that screech : Loser , social outcast , mentally deranged , dim witted , friendless , mentally sick , obsessed with Jews and totally unhappy .

    Read More
    • Replies: @geokat62

    Then he should be most upset with Syria , who was complicit in the marine barracks bombing in Beirut in 1982 .
     
    Some background info on the incident that resulted in the deaths of hundreds of American troops:

    “American Marines, who had been dispatched to Lebanon as peacekeepers to oversee the PLO evacuation but then had departed, hastily returned after the Sabra and Shatila massacres. They were housed in a large warehouse complex near Beirut’s airport.

    Over the next year, American forces found themselves drawn into the worsening Lebanese civil war. A key moment occurred on Sept. 18, 1983, when Reagan’s national security adviser Robert McFarlane*, who was considered a staunch supporter of Israel, ordered U.S. warships to bombard Muslim targets inside Lebanon.

    As Gen. Colin Powell, then a top aide to Defense Secretary Weinberger, wrote in his memoir, “When the shells started falling on the Shiites, they assumed the American ‘referee’ had taken sides.” [See Powell’s My American Journey.]

    Muslim attacks on the Marines in Beirut soon escalated. On Oct. 23, 1983, two Shiite Muslims drove explosives-laden trucks into two buildings in Beirut, one housing French forces and the other the Marines. The blasts killed 241 Americans and 58 French.”

    https://consortiumnews.com/2016/05/19/how-israel-out-foxed-us-presidents-5/
     

    * Just to underscore how pro-Israel Robert McFarlane is, he was among those who were calling for the release of Jonathan Pollard (in a Feb. 9 letter to President Obama).
    , @Art

    p.s. Your comments screech JEW

    That is superiour to your comments that screech : Loser , social outcast , mentally deranged , dim witted , friendless , mentally sick , obsessed with Jews and totally unhappy .
     
    Here at the trailer park, next to the junk yard – I am low man on the debating scene. But every once in a while – my brain pops up with a truth – and I win the discussion.

    I see from your response that you are confounded and greatly disturbed by my simple truths about Israel and its supporters.

    One look at Israel – and we see what evil lurks in the Jew soul. Your wanton unjust treatment of the Palestinian people screams evil!

    My meager intellect can see that truth – too bad for you Jews – you will always lose to the truth.

    For the truth to not shine – requires coercion – and coercion bring hate – and so we see the history of the Jews.

    Peace --- Art

    , @Ivan
    St Reagan went into Lebanon to save the Israeli chestnuts. If the Israelis had kept up the butchery in Lebanon in pursuit of the PLO the Arabs including the Egyptians would have been forced to intervene. And the Americans came in with their heavy naval guns. If you were at the receiving end of those bombardments you too would want to kill your enemies. So the bombing of the Marine compound is the direct result of the invasion and destruction of Lebanon. Further the 20,000 figure for Homs is sheer exaggerations. You have to discount it by three quarters.
  187. @anon
    Hey happy guy !!!!
    Actually the illegitimate Syrian Alawite government is killing its own Sunni population . Sure Sunni are coming to help their brothers , it is their obligation according to the holy Koran. You must be an Islamophobe.

    Syria is a dictatorship . The Alawite minority is 10% of population . Sunni is 70% of the population. The Assad dynasty seized power in a coup and has been a murderous dictatorship since.

    This Alawite murder machine is nothing new. Forget the half a million killed by Syria in the past few years. In October of 1982 alone the Syria dictatorship killed 30,000 people.

    anon,

    I assume this means that Assad is killing the majority of the Syrian Arab Army (SAA) and even his own wife as well?

    Your comments are so utterly absurd that I simply cannot respond further at this point…

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  188. @alexander
    You raise a very profound point, Geo.

    Why is there an urgent NEED for a "special prosecutor" to investigate the influence of a foreign power on our political system ,when it 's RUSSIA, ......but No NEED whatsoever , when its King BIBI and Israel?

    Have any of our MSM outlets ever even broached this subject ?

    If not , why not ?

    Is the issue of "influence peddling" only germane when "some countries" are influential...but not OTHERS ?


    Who made THIS the law of the land?..Who says it's "just" ?.....and why ?

    The investigation we need now is the murder of SETH RICH.

    The whole “Impeach Trump” campaign is focused on Russian connections and alleged Russian hacking of DNC emails. Whatever anyone thinks of our legally elected President Trump, it is the office of the Presidency that is being fraudulently attacked. The Trump-haters are suppressing any information about the murder of Seth Rich, who may have leaked the DNC emails in question. That would be a leak, not a hack, and it would throw the Dems’ corruption case into the toilet.

    Demand an investigation.

    Appoint a Special Prosecutor to investigate the murder of Seth Rich, the alleged Wikileaks email leaker.

    https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/appoint-special-prosecutor-investigate-murder-seth-rich-alleged-wikileaks-email-leaker

    On July 10, 2016, Seth Rich was shot twice in the early morning as he walked back to his house in Washington D.C. Immediately after the crime, the death was called an armed robbery… but none of Seth Rich’s belongings were taken from him.

    Rod Wheeler, a private investigator hired by the family, said that there was evidence Seth Rich had contacted WikiLeaks and that law enforcement were covering this up. MSM is not covering this murder, instead pushing it to the side, so it is now up to us.

    The facts do not add up, law enforcement stopped covering the crime, and now it is time for us to fight for justice. Seth Rich deserves this.

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  189. anon says:     Show CommentNext New Comment
    @Rurik

    Israel controls the world while at the same time being inept cowards.
     
    they don't control the world, but they do control our fecal congress and our media, and the only way they were able to pull that off is because Woodrow Wilson gave them the keys to our Treasury. Trust me "anon", if I had access to trillions of dollars of wealth, that I could lend out to my buddies and force the American tax slave to pay me interest on the money I lent out, and could give my buddies interest free loans and tell them when to short certain markets and have the fecal gov bail me and my buddies out when our casino bets went bad, well then "anon", I can promise you that there'd be some serious changes in the way business was conducted around here.

    All the war criminals would find themselves at the Hague but pronto.

    all the banksters would be in pound-arse prison for a combined thousands + years

    the American people would finally be able to vote on genuine patriots that serve their interests, and not the interests of a criminal foreign rogue state.

    so many things would change, if only I owned the Federal Reserve Bank instead of international Jewish supremacists.

    I'd return them to the 1948 borders and force them to compensate every single Palestinian for any and all property that the Jews have stolen from the Arabs. I'd force them to pay massive reparations for the myriad and heinous crimes they've committed over the decades.

    I'd do so many things "anon". Every single deepstate agent responsible for the USS Liberty would be brought to justice, and hanged by the neck until they stopped dancing. Ditto 9/11.

    the media would return to informing the public honestly and entertaining them with art that exalts the human spirit, rather than squalid potty culture.

    there's just so many things that would change if only our congress would coin our currency as the Constitution demands, rather than handing that privilege over to the world's greediest banksters and notorious cowards.

    yea, when it comes to financial treachery and chicanery, my hat is off to the Jews. They're second to none, and none come close. But in combat, something tells me I'd rather have a German or a Russian at me back. I'd prefer Max or Vlad if I'm going to be in a fight, and not Irving or Moshe so much.

    they don’t control the world, but they do control our fecal congress and our media,

    What about the European governments and media ? They must be controlled by Jews as well.
    Surely they are only flooding their own countries with Muslims and provoking the native population not to procreate because of the hand of the Jew ?? And what about Turki and Libya? . Surely they are controlled by Jews as well , as they are the mechanism of flooding Europe with Muslims . Surely the good Muslims of Turki and Libya are not flooding Europe and impending white genocide on their own volition . Surely the Jew must be in control of that evil as well ?? Could inept cowards really pull all of this off so smoothly ??

    I’d return them to the 1948 borders and force them to compensate every single Palestinian for any and all property that the Jews have stolen from the Arabs. I’d force them to pay massive reparations for the myriad and heinous crimes they’ve committed over the decades

    Jordan is occupying 78% of Palestine. what would your plans be for them ?
    Tell me about the compensation package you would offer to the following countries that all receive US aid :
    Sudan -Occupation of Darfur -700,000 killed ; Indonesia – Occupation of Papua -500,000 killed.
    Turki-occupation of Kurdistan and Cyprus – 80,000 killed ; Morocco = Occupation of Western Sahara – 40,000 killed ; Entirety of Israel – Palestinian conflict – 23,000 killed

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    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Rurik is right and you are dead wrong. Maybe someday some well armed backed by the government Anerican Indians will stomp into your house and give you and your family 1 hour to pack up and get out.

    When you go to work next day you are told you've been fired and only American Indians can work there.
    And when you go to the county clerk and mortgage bank for the deed and proof of property tax payments you are told that all your ownership records have conveniently disappeared.

    Arabs in what is now Israel owned real property. It was confiscated by armed soldiers without any compensation or pretense of eminent domain. The country of Jordan has nothing to do with the massive theft of real property within the boundaries of what is now Israel.

    "The Arabs fled Israel for Jordan. So what. Don't you periodically leave your house for vacations? If you came back after a month's absence and found strangers living in your home and all your ownership records erased would just meekly accept and move to another country? No you would not.

    So why do you expect the Arabs of Israel, not Jordan to just meekly accept the theft by force and violence of their real property?

    The theft was not the abstract concept of Jordan and Israel. It was the theft of millions parcels of real estate owned by individual Arabs within the boundaries of Israel.

    As the King of Saudi Arabia said, " if the Jews deserve their own state because of what the Germans did during the war why not give the Jews Bavaria?"
    , @Rurik

    What about the European governments and media ? They must be controlled by Jews as well.
     
    sort of

    since the Fed (and consequently their agents at Goldman Sachs and the US Treasury, et al) gives the 'international Jew' unprecedented 'power of the purse' to materially align the US fecal government to their collective will- vis-a-vis Israel and the Eternal Wars and human migrations, etc.., it only stands to reason that these same International Jews at the EU and ECB are all working towards the same goals, no? The bolstering of Israel while at the exact same time the historic and irreversible destruction of Europe.

    why "anon", would Germany build expensive modern submarines (capable of launching nukes on Germany) and hand them over to Israel for free... while at the same time morally participating in immoral wars of aggression on Israel's well-earned enemies... while at the same time morally participating in a genocide, while at the same time facilitating a genocidal invasion of Germany that will rip Germany apart at the seams and cause unimaginable strife f0r generations to come?

    why would they do all of that, especially when all of it is extremely unpopular with the German people? Eh "anon"?

    so yea, obviously having control of the world's reserve currency has given world Jewry terrible powers of the purse to destroy other people's nations. Like France. Like England. Like N. America.

    Sure, their nefarious financial power is global in reach. There's no doubt about that.


    Surely they are only flooding their own countries with Muslims and provoking the native population not to procreate because of the hand of the Jew ??
     
    basically, yea

    I won't elaborate, but I think most educated people take that as a given.


    And what about Turki and Libya? . Surely they are controlled by Jews as well , as they are the mechanism of flooding Europe with Muslims
     
    Turkey and Libya can't be put into the same narrative.

    Turkey is a Muslim country with delusions of Sultanic empire grandeur. Opportunistic, craven, they have wet dreams of invading Europe while at the same time abase themselves in supine genuflection begging Europe to pretend that they're Europeans too.

    Whereas Libya was a regional success story run by a nationalistic patriot who created a miracle in Libya, until the Fiend came bashing in, and destroyed it all, and all of it to benefit Israel and the International central Banksters. Duh.


    Muslims of Turki and Libya are not flooding Europe and impending white genocide on their own volition . Surely the Jew must be in control of that evil as well ?? Could inept cowards really pull all of this off so smoothly ??
     
    it isn't rocket science. If given the opportunity, all the world's third world people would flood into the first world. Duh. The effect of the Jew is his use of unlimited money to corrupt the governments and media of the first world so that they open their gates. It's the same thing they did to Spain in the eighth century. They insinuate themselves into a white society and then work feverishly to destroy it from the inside out. Nothing new under the sun "anon'. (speaking of endemic cowardice, why don't you pick a handle so we can all track your 'brave' identity "anon"?)

    Jordan is occupying 78% of Palestine. what would your plans be for them ?
     
    Jordan is Arab, and are not genociding other Arabs. I have no interest or concerns about inter-Arab issues so long as I'm not dragged into them or otherwise forced to fund or vouchsafe one side or the other.

    Sudan -Occupation of Darfur -700,000 killed
     
    blah, blah, blah

    the reason the Zionist / Palestinian issue is critical is because it is the reason my country was dragged into WWI "anon". (Did you know that? It's called the Balfour Declaration. Check it out)

    Also it is arguably the reason the world was dragged into WWII. Right after the Nuremburg trial farce, where the world was lectured by the Allies on the evils of aggressive wars and ethnic cleansing, what happens but some Jewish terrorists start butchering and slaughtering Arab villagers in order to terrorize them off their ancient lands so that they could steal the land for themselves. This would be so notable, except that is was the world's Jews that were screeching at Germany and everyone else for either facilitating or ignoring their 'Holocaust'. You see?

    And so what's been rather untenable ever since then, and particularly today, is to see these sanctimonious shitstains on the world's stage believing that they can browbeat the rest of the world for their terrible suffering, and build all these museums to the evil of the Gentile world for allowing them to be genocided, even as these same shitstains perpetrate the exact same thing on people who are completely innocent, unlike the Jewish Bolshevik who Germany was fighting an existential battle for its very existence against.

    So there is a lot of history to all of this. And the Zio/Arab conflict is insinuated into our lives in a thousand different ways. The exact same Hollywood mogols who make Nazi films every week demonizing all Germans and Germany for the crimes of a few Nazis, are the same ones who work to facilitate the genocide and Nakba being committed in the holy land, ya see "anon'.

    It's all tied in. And it underpins the Eternal Wars that are ripping the world apart and threatening a global nuclear holocaust. For real.

    There have been many terrible crimes and genocides throughout the decades and centuries "anon", but none like the Zio one that is so wrought with hypocrisy, treachery, terrorism, human rights atrocities, and generations long humiliations of an incredibly put-upon people.

    I'd love to take these issues you bring up and flesh them out one by one. There's a lot we can all learn together if we really want to get to the crux of these issues and solve them, at least philosophically. And then perchance we can lead a movement where the world will take notice and start to act in ways that are more sane and humane. I know you don't approve of cowardly soldiers shooting children from rooftops "anon". Who could possibly defend such craven, sniveling behavior?! So let's shine a light on all of this, and together we can start to effect real change in the world. We can do our own version of Tikkun olam "anon", starting right here on the Unz Review! ;)

  190. @anon

    Because – unlike YOU – he loves America FIRST.
     
    Then he should be most upset with Syria , who was complicit in the marine barracks bombing in Beirut in 1982 . You see that had American casualties of 241 killed. USS Liberty only had casualties of 35 killed. Furthermore the barracks bombing was deliberate murder whereas USS Liberty was a mistake . Also USS Liberty was a very long time ago and nothing of the sort ever happened again from the Israelis. Conversely the Beirut bombing of US marines was more recent.So by every metric , Syria is far worse .

    p.s. Your comments screech JEW
     
    !
    That is superiour to your comments that screech : Loser , social outcast , mentally deranged , dim witted , friendless , mentally sick , obsessed with Jews and totally unhappy .

    Then he should be most upset with Syria , who was complicit in the marine barracks bombing in Beirut in 1982 .

    Some background info on the incident that resulted in the deaths of hundreds of American troops:

    “American Marines, who had been dispatched to Lebanon as peacekeepers to oversee the PLO evacuation but then had departed, hastily returned after the Sabra and Shatila massacres. They were housed in a large warehouse complex near Beirut’s airport.

    Over the next year, American forces found themselves drawn into the worsening Lebanese civil war. A key moment occurred on Sept. 18, 1983, when Reagan’s national security adviser Robert McFarlane*, who was considered a staunch supporter of Israel, ordered U.S. warships to bombard Muslim targets inside Lebanon.

    As Gen. Colin Powell, then a top aide to Defense Secretary Weinberger, wrote in his memoir, “When the shells started falling on the Shiites, they assumed the American ‘referee’ had taken sides.” [See Powell’s My American Journey.]

    Muslim attacks on the Marines in Beirut soon escalated. On Oct. 23, 1983, two Shiite Muslims drove explosives-laden trucks into two buildings in Beirut, one housing French forces and the other the Marines. The blasts killed 241 Americans and 58 French.”

    https://consortiumnews.com/2016/05/19/how-israel-out-foxed-us-presidents-5/

    * Just to underscore how pro-Israel Robert McFarlane is, he was among those who were calling for the release of Jonathan Pollard (in a Feb. 9 letter to President Obama).

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