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Did the United States warn Russia to stay out of Syria?

Yes, they did.

Did they tell the Russians that if they joined the war against ISIS and helped Bashar al Assad the US would make them pay a heavy price?

Yes.

Did US agents and diplomats warn their Russian counterparts that Russian troops would “come home in body bags” and that the western media would launch a propaganda campaign against them?

Yes, again.

Did US officials say the western media would concoct a phony story about “Russian hacking” that would be used to persuade the American people that Russia was a dangerous enemy that had to be reined in with harsh economic sanctions, provocative military maneuvers, and threats of violence?

No, but it’s not hard to imagine a scenario in which the CIA would pursue such a strategy. After all, the Intel agencies, the media and the entire political establishment have been hammering on Russia for over two years now. Isn’t it possible that elements of these three factions decided to pool their resources in order to poison the public’s perception of Russia? Hasn’t the US government dabbled in these type of psychological operations (PSYOPS) many time before?

Of course, they have. And in prior incidents, the facts were fixed to fit the policy just as they have been in this case. For example, the Bush administration had already decided to topple Saddam long-before they cooked up their fake stories about mobile weapons labs, Niger uranium, aluminum tubes and “Curveball”. Doesn’t the same rule apply here? Haven’t the “facts” about collusion, Pokémon Go and Facebook all been concocted after-the-fact to support the original thesis, that Russia meddled in the election?

But we’re getting ahead of ourselves. What we know is that high-ranking members of the US State Department and Pentagon threatened Moscow prior to Russia’s military intervention in October, 2015. US diplomats made it clear that if Russia helped the Syrian government, Washington would use the media and its other assets to retaliate. According to Russia’s Foreign Affairs Spokesperson, Maria Zakharova:

We were asked to pass on to you the most serious warnings that Russia will be hurt by its actions.. We will make sure that Russia really knows what pain is……Keep in mind that everything you do will be manipulated by the media which will cancel out the real (positive) effects of your work. ..You are going to fight terrorists, but you will be made to look like the bad guy.

These threats were delivered to us many times in 2015 as part of the discussions with the Russia’s Representative of Foreign Affairs and his international counterparts. (During Kerry-Lavrov meetings)

We’re talking about the world’s elite who told us these things.

When we told them exactly what targets we planned to strike, they launched a disinformation media campaign against us. Officials from the White House and State Department directly threatened to hurt us. They promised that we’d “come home in body bags” not only diplomatic representatives but also the Secretary of Defense…..The US showed us that the strongest military has unlimited rights to create evil in the world.”

(See the whole interview on YouTube.

Zakharova’s admission is interesting for many reasons. First, it confirms that the US did not want to see the jihadist extremists defeated by Russia. These mainly-Sunni militias served as Washington’s proxy-army conducting an ambitious regime change operation which coincided with US strategic ambitions.

Second, Zakharova confirms that the western media is not an independent news gathering organization, but a propaganda organ for the foreign policy establishment who dictates what they can and can’t say. When Zakharova says, “everything you do will be manipulated by the media”, she is tacitly acknowledging that the MSM works in concert with the US government shaping a message that best achieves US imperial objectives. In this case, the obvious goal is the removal of Bashar al Assad and the partitioning of the state consistent with US plans to redraw the map of the Middle East. Russian intervention derailed that plan which is why Russia is despised.

Third, Zakharova’s comments suggest a motive for the Russia hacking campaign. Russia has become an insurmountable obstacle to Washington’s plans for global hegemony. It has blocked US progress in Ukraine and rolled backed US proxy-forces in Syria. Additionally, Russia has united the countries in Central Asia (EEU) and threatens to economically integrate Europe and Asia into the world’s biggest free trade zone spanning from Lisbon to Vladivostok. Here’s a quote from Putin that explains what’s going on:

“Russia is an inalienable and organic part of Greater Europe and European civilization. Our citizens think of themselves as Europeans…That’s why Russia proposes moving towards the creation of a common economic space from the Atlantic to the Pacific Ocean, a community referred to by Russian experts as ‘the Union of Europe’ which will strengthen Russia’s potential in its economic pivot toward the ‘new Asia.’”

Putin’s dream of Greater Europe is the death knell for the unipolar world order. It means the economic center of the world will shift to Central Asia where abundant resources and cheap labor of the east will be linked to the technological advances and the Capital the of the west eliminating the need to trade in dollars or recycle profits into US debt. The US economy will slip into irreversible decline, and the global hegemon will steadily lose its grip on power. That’s why it is imperative for the US prevail in Ukraine– a critical landbridge connecting the two continents– and to topple Assad in Syria in order to control vital resources and pipeline corridors. Washington must be in a position where it can continue to force its trading partners to denominate their resources in dollars and recycle the proceeds into US Treasuries if it is to maintain its global primacy. The main problem is that Russia is blocking Uncle Sam’s path to success which is roiling the political establishment in Washington.

ORDER IT NOW

The US wants to retaliate for the defeat of its proxy army in Syria but it’s not prepared for a military clash. Not yet, at least. And, keep in mind, Washington’s Sunni proxies were not a division of the Pentagon; they were entirely a CIA confection: CIA recruited, CIA-armed, CIA-funded and CIA-trained. The defeat is not a loss for the US Military, but a blot on the record of CIA Director John Brennan, the architect and main proponent of the failed project to remove Assad. Brennan’s whole scheme has gone down in flames.

Why is that important?

Because it suggests that Brennan had a strong motive to strike back at Moscow. He had “a dog in the fight”, and his dog lost. And since he couldn’t win on the battlefield, his only choice was to launch an asymmetrical attack via the media. Isn’t this where the Russia hacking idea originated?

If it did, then there should be footprints that lead back to Brennan himself, the primary source of the psyops. Check out this excerpt from The Washington Times:

What caused the Barack Obama administration to begin investigating the Donald Trump campaign last summer has come into clearer focus following a string of congressional hearings on Russian interference in the presidential election.

It was then-CIA Director John O. Brennan, a close confidant of Mr. Obama’s, who provided the information — what he termed the “basis” — for the FBI to start the counterintelligence investigation last summer. Mr. Brennan served on the former president’s 2008 presidential campaign and in his White House.

Mr. Brennan told the House Intelligence Committee on May 23 that the intelligence community was picking up tidbits on Trump associates making contacts with Russians. Mr. Brennan did not name either the Russians or the Trump people. He indicated he did not know what was said.

But he said he believed the contacts were numerous enough to alert the FBI, which began its probe into Trump associates that same July, according to previous congressional testimony from then-FBI director James B. Comey.

(“Obama loyalist Brennan drove FBI to begin investigating Trump associates last summer”, The Washington Times)

So it all started with Brennan, the resentful Intel chief who got his nose bloodied by Putin in Syria and decided to seek his revenge. But then Brennan needed to conceal his lead-role in the drama by drawing other agencies into the loop, so he included the FBI, the NSA and DIA. The strategy helped to obfuscate the real braintrust in the hacking affair, John Brennan.

According to Mother Jones, it was not the FBI that initiated the “Trump-Russia connection”.. but ..”Former CIA Director John Brennan says he was the one who got the ball rolling.”

Indeed. Brennan appears to be the central figure in this political fiasco, the source from which many of the spurious accusations originated. It was Brennan who first intimated that members of the Trump campaign colluded with Russian agents prior to the 2016 elections.

“I was aware of intelligence and information about contacts between Russian officials and U.S. persons that raised concerns in my mind about whether or not those individuals were cooperating with the Russians, either in a witting or unwitting fashion, and it served as the basis for the FBI investigation to determine whether such collusion [or] cooperation occurred,” Brennan stated in testimony before the House Intelligence Committee in May.

This is a deliberate mischaracterization of what Brennan was actually doing. He was spying on the members of the rival party to gain a political advantage. This is how police state operates. How is it that no one in the media or on Capitol Hill has condemned this egregious attack on the democratic process?

So far, none of the four investigations on Capitol Hill has produced even a shred of evidence supporting Brennan’s claims. Just last week, during a press conference with the leaders of the Senate Intelligence Committee, Senator Richard Burr bluntly stated,

“The committee continues to look into all evidence to see if there was any hint of collusion. Now, I’m not going to even discuss any initial findings because we haven’t any.”

There’s no proof of collusion at all. So what’s Brennan’s real motive here? What’s driving this silly propaganda campaign that has failed to produce any verifiable evidence after a massive 10-month, no-holds-barred investigation involving both Houses of Congress, the establishment media, four intelligence agencies and an Independent Counsel?

The absence of evidence suggests that Russia hacking narrative is a sloppy and unprofessional disinformation campaign that was hastily slapped together by over confident Intelligence officials who believed that saturating the public airwaves with one absurd story after another would achieve the desired result, that is, persuading the American people that “evil” Putin is trying to sabotage our pristine democracy and that Donald Trump is not only the country’s lousiest president ever, but also a Russian agent.

That’s not to say, that Brennan’s psyops has not been successful. It has been, amazingly successful. According to a recent CBS Poll, a majority of Americans (57%) now believe that “Russia tried to interfere in the 2016 presidential election.” In contrast, only 34 percent of Americans don’t believe there was any Russian interference in the 2016 elections.

What the numbers don’t explain, however, is how one’s own political ideology shapes the results. For example, 71 percent of Democrats believe that Russia interfered, while a mere 18 percent of Republicans agree. In other words, one’s own prejudices (about Trump and Russia) have a much greater impact on one’s opinion than either facts or evidence. Propaganda campaigns try to exploit public bias to effectively manipulate perceptions. The CBS polling data shows that they have succeeded in that regard.

The US government has a long history of (as Robert Parry says) “cherry-picking or manufacturing evidence to undermine adversaries and to solidify U.S. public support for Washington’s policies.” That is certainly the case here. Most of the so-called ‘evidence’ is nothing more than baseless accusations that appear momentarily in the headlines only to vanish a week or so later. Brennan and Co. appear to be exploring new frontiers in state propaganda, propaganda that relies less on semi-credible events or evidence than on incessant repetition of far-fetched allegations (Facebook, Google, Pokémon Go) that reiterate the same underlying claim of Russian meddling. The difference between the fabrications that led up to the war in Iraq (mobile weapons labs, Niger uranium, shadowy connections to al Qaida and aluminum tubes) and those of Russian hacking suggests that the perpetrators of this charade are convinced that frequency trumps credibility. The American people are being carpet-bombed with dodgy, almost-comical disinformation to see if it has the intended effect. Recent surveys indicate the plan is working.

The loosening of rules governing the dissemination of domestic propaganda (In 2013, Obama gutted the Smith Mundt Act “unleashing of thousands of hours per week of government-funded radio and TV programs for domestic U.S. consumption in a reform initially criticized as a green light for U.S. domestic propaganda efforts.” (Foreign Policy Magazine) In 2016, Obama paved the way for more domestic propaganda by passing the Orwellian-named “Countering Disinformation and Propaganda Act” as part of the 2017 National Defense Authorization Act. Ostensibly, the bill lays the groundwork for responding to “fake news” overseas, but in reality, it marks “a further curtailment of press freedom” and an ambitious attempt to suppress accurate, independent information.) The loosening of rules governing the dissemination of domestic propaganda coupled with the extraordinary advances in surveillance technology, create the perfect conditions for the full implementation of an American police state. But what is more concerning, is that the primary levers of state power are no longer controlled by elected officials but by factions within the state whose interests do not coincide with those of the American people. That can only lead to trouble.

MIKE WHITNEY lives in Washington state. He is a contributor to Hopeless: Barack Obama and the Politics of Illusion (AK Press). Hopeless is also available in a Kindle edition. He can be reached at fergiewhitney@msn.com.

(Republished by permission of author or representative)
 
• Category: Foreign Policy • Tags: American Media, Russia, Syria 
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  1. A credible reading of the diverse facts, Mike.

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    • Agree: Grandpa Charlie
    • Replies: @anonymous
    Yes. To have the best chance to change minds, though, the article should be edited one more time.

    Errors like "Capital Hill," using "have" instead of "has" with "none" ("So far, none of the four investigations on Capital Hill have produced ..."), and even a missing word ("perception [of] Russia") are needless distractions that enable those who want to avoid or prevent others from thinking critically. People tend to overlook these things when they're sympathetic, and to seize upon them when they're not.
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  2. Sadly, Brennan’s propaganda coup only works on what the Bell Curve crowd up there would call the dumbest and most technologically helpless 1.2σ. Here is how people with half a brain interpret the latest CIA whoppers.

    http://www.moonofalabama.org/2017/10/everyone-hacked-everyone-hacked-everyone-spy-spin-fuels-anti-kaspersky-campaign.html

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  3. utu says:

    Again Mike Whitney does not get it. Though in the first part of the article I thought he would. He was almost getting there. The objective was to push new administration into the corner from which it could not improve relations with Russia as Trump indicated that he wanted to during the campaign. Convincing Americans in Russia’s influence or Russia collusion with Trump was only a tool that would create pressure on Trump that together with the fear of paralysis of his administration and impeachment would push Trump into the corner from which the only thing he could do was to worsen relations with Russia. What American people believe or not is really secondary. With firing of Gen. Flynn Trump acted exactly as they wanted him to act. This was the beginning of downward slope.

    Anyway, the mission was accomplished and the relations with Russia are worse now than during Obama administration. Trump can concentrate on Iran in which he will be supported by all sides and factions including the media. Even Larry David will approve not only the zionist harpies like Pam Geller, Rita Katz and Ilana Mercer.

    Pamela Geller: Thank You, Larry David

    http://www.breitbart.com/big-hollywood/2017/10/19/pamela-geller-thank-larry-david/

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    • Agree: Bill
    • Replies: @Seamus Padraig

    Anyway, the mission was accomplished and the relations with Russia are worse now than during Obama administration.
     
    I generally agree with your comment, but that part strikes me as a bit of an exaggeration. While relations with Russia certainly haven't improved, how have they really worsened? The second round of sanctions that Trump reluctantly approved have yet to be implemented by Europe, which was the goal. And apart from that, what of substance has changed?
    , @CanSpeccy
    On the plus side, everyone now knows that the Anglo-US media from the NY Times to the Economist, from WaPo to the Gruniard, and from the BBC to CNN, the CBC and Weinstein's Hollywood are a worthless bunch of depraved lying bastards.
    , @Mr. Anon

    The objective was to push new administration into the corner from which it could not improve relations with Russia as Trump indicated that he wanted to during the campaign.
     
    Good point. That was probably one of the objectives (and from the point of view of the deep-state, perhaps the most important objective) of the "Russia hacked our democracy" narrative, in addition to the general deligitimization of the Trump administration.
    , @anon
    Suppose nothing changes ,everything stays same - the losses of American lives, shock of 2008 economic depression, current intelligence on Iraqi WMD opioid epidemic, and inglorious war victories or pure losses ,resurging China, Crimea within Russian borders- and we transport Bannon/Flkynn to pre 2003 March world, he would support war against Iraq he would be cheerleading it , he would be conspiring against those opposing the IRAQ WAR while lambasting previous administrations for Gulf war, Kosovo and Balkan war .


    He has exactly recreated the situation or confirmed what he would have done in 2003 by supporting aggressive anti Iran agenda. He supports war against Iran . One will question how that fits with his anti interventionist stances How that comports with his anti war theories . It doesn't . It confirms him to be a psycho It confirms him to be nothing but an opportunist who uses anti war sentiment of Trump base . He wants himself to be exploiting ,his circle to be in charge , his profit to be ascertained and not some "kisisnger elite"
    He figured out that with Russia not threatened by any regime change, he could get Russia on his side or at least he could get a Russia that would be working with him strategically .To Bannon/Flynn hope is at least Russia would ignore and condone the direction- or they could divvy up the bonanza resulting from foreign intervention . Flynn/B annon's Russian love stems from this rotten philosophy .



    You see ,what he is trying now. He is positioning himself as strategist , as american patriot, as isolationist as helming at "America 1st " bandwagon who opposes unnecessary wars .

    But he is a Pseudo
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  4. anon says: • Disclaimer

    OK.

    The only part that is absurd is that Russia posed a bona fide threat to the US. I’m fine with the idea that he ruined Brennen’s plans in Syria. But thats just ego… we shouldn’t have been there anyway.

    No one really cares about Ukraine. And the European/Russian trade zone? No one cares. The Eurozone has its hands full with Greece and the rest of the old EU. I have a feeling they have already gone way too far and are more likely to shrink than expand in any meaningful way

    The one thing I am not positive about. If the elite really believe that Russia is a threat, then Americans have done psych ops on themselves.

    The US was only interested in Ukraine because it was there. Next in line on a map. The rather shocking disinterest in investing money — on both sides — is inexplicable if it was really important. Most of it would be a waste — but still. The US stupidly spent $5 billion on something — getting duped by politicians and got theoretical regime change, but it was hell to pry even $1 billion for real economic aid.

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    • Replies: @jilles dykstra
    A son in law and a son of Biden, and Kerry, hope I still have the names right, got lucrative jobs in now rebel held E Ukraine, where the oil, gas and other minerals are.
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  5. “…..factions within the state whose interests do not coincide with those of the American people.”

    All the more powerfully put because of its recognisably comical. understatement.

    Thank you Mr Whitney. Brilliant article that would be all over the mainstream media were the US MSM an instrument of American rather than globalist interests.

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  6. Capn Mike says:

    Headline: “Trump / Russian Collusion: Questions Remain”

    Body: blahblahyaddayadda…Where’s the evidence? (question) blahblahyaddayadda..Who’s Responsible? (question) etc etc.

    Takeaway: Uh. Trump Russian Collusion

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  7. I am reading Howard Zinn, A Peoples History of the USA, 1492 to the Present.
    A sad story, how the USA always was a police state, where the two percent rich manipulated the 98% poor, to stay rich.
    When there were insurrections federal troops restored order.
    Also FDR put down strikes with troops.

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    • Replies: @Logan
    You should be aware that Zinn's book is not, IMO, an honest attempt at writing history. It is conscious propaganda intended to make Americans believe exactly what you are taking from it.
    , @Mr. Anon

    I am reading Howard Zinn, A Peoples History of the USA...
     
    A Peoples History of the USA? Which Peoples?
    , @jacques sheete

    I am reading Howard Zinn, A Peoples History of the USA...
     
    It's an OK introduction to alternative narratives, but what he leaves out is as important as what he emphasizes. However, you seem to be enough of a reader that you don't need to be reminded to avoid taking his book as "gospel."

    If you have not discovered the likes of Mencken, A. J. Nock, and Harry Elmer Barnes and you are curious about American history, may I suggest some 0f their writing available free at another UNZ site...

    http://www.unz.org/Pub/

    The sheer volume of material there is astounding and most of it seems extremely worthwhile.

    Murray Rothbard is also superb and can be found here.:

    https://mises.org/
    , @Alden
    Americans know all that Jilles. We don't need you to tell us about it. Howard Zinn is a commumist Jew dedicated to destroying America and western Europe including the Netherlands. I've read his book. It focuses totally on what is wrong with America and makes everything worse than it was.

    FDR did not put down any worker's strikes with troops. FDR actually made the labor umions and workers movements very powerful. This lead to the rise of the middle class. What Zinn referred to was a mass demonstration in Washington that was put down by the army. That demonstration was not by labor unions and workers. It was by veterans of WW1 who wanted an early disbursement of their veteran old age pensions.

    FDR was the workers and labor unions best friend. Howard Zinn is one of those jewish marxists whose propaganda is only believed by people with empty sinks for brains. Put in the plug and turn on the Howard Zinn tap until the empty sink is full.

    You seem intelligent but you aren't American and probably didn't realize what Howard Zinn is when you started reading his book. He is about as unbiased as Hitler or any other propagandist with an agenda.

    Instead of always criticizing America, why not take a look at your insignificant little brothel on the North Sea? At least sex slavery is illegal in America whereas your country is filled with sex slave E European girls owned by the pimps who bought them from other pimps.

    I've read left wing accounts of the way your country treated Indonesia all those hundreds of years it was a Dutch colony. So don't throw stones at other White countries

    Only leftists and the incredibly naive read Howard Zinn


    I'm sure Zinn claims that Columbus and his sailors purposefully infected the indians with smallpox and syphilis. FYI empty sink; Columbus crew brought back syphilis from America and later explorers brought smallpox to Europe from America.

    Try to post about what you know, not nonsense and lies from Howard Zinn.

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  8. anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @Fran Macadam
    A credible reading of the diverse facts, Mike.

    Yes. To have the best chance to change minds, though, the article should be edited one more time.

    Errors like “Capital Hill,” using “have” instead of “has” with “none” (“So far, none of the four investigations on Capital Hill have produced …”), and even a missing word (“perception [of] Russia”) are needless distractions that enable those who want to avoid or prevent others from thinking critically. People tend to overlook these things when they’re sympathetic, and to seize upon them when they’re not.

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    • Agree: Logan
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  9. Logan says:
    @jilles dykstra
    I am reading Howard Zinn, A Peoples History of the USA, 1492 to the Present.
    A sad story, how the USA always was a police state, where the two percent rich manipulated the 98% poor, to stay rich.
    When there were insurrections federal troops restored order.
    Also FDR put down strikes with troops.

    You should be aware that Zinn’s book is not, IMO, an honest attempt at writing history. It is conscious propaganda intended to make Americans believe exactly what you are taking from it.

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    • Replies: @Grandpa Charlie

    "Zinn’s book is not, IMO, an honest attempt at writing history. It is conscious propaganda" -- Logan
     
    That's one way of putting it, Logan. I once had a dispute with a friend who believed, based on Zinn, that North Korea had not initiated the Korean War. I had merely detailed and vivid accounts told to me personally by eye witnesses - both civilian Koreans and American military (who were also quite critical of the American occupation and of the Rhee dictatorship). My friend later got back to me that he had investigated outside of Zinn and discovered, after exhaustive research, that Zinn was doubtlessly incorrect on the beginning of the Korean War ... but my friend also noted that in his introduction to his book, Zinn said that he wasn't actually trying to do anything but to present another side for Americans who had never been exposed to any history except that found in official American textbooks.

    I reckon that's conscious propaganda of a sort -- the sort that I see a lot of here at UR.
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  10. Anon says: • Disclaimer

    I distrust economic explanations because there are usually stronger forces in play, forces we are skittish about mentioning. America’s interest, driven by AIPAC and the neocon policy brains trust, is less in the world than in the middle east and eastern Europe, two areas where Jews and nationalists have long engaged in bloody conflict. The interest in North Korea is that it could sell weapons to Iran. Writing in 1920 Belloc speaks of the Jewish hatred for Russia. You could add the Jewish hatred for Ukraine, Poland, Lithuania, and other eastern countries where Jews and Christians have historically had an unpleasant relationship. Jews want to see a politically correct united Europe where nationalism and religion will be extinguished by laws against hate speech and cultural re-education. They much preferred the Slavic nations under Communism. They bent over backwards to make excuses for Stalin and his successors. America wants to see Jewish oligarchs and their pet ‘reformers’ e.g. Garry Kasparov in charge of Russia. In the middle east they want endless war until all threats to Israel have been removed. While there are multiple factors at work, e.g. Hillary’s wanting an excuse for losing, the effort of Jews to master their traditional Christian and Muslim enemies is probably the most powerful and simultaneously the one we can’t discuss openly — a perilous state of affairs.

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    • Replies: @hyperbola
    There are many things we are forbidden to discuss openly. Such as how Stalin put an end to the biggest genocide of the 20th century in Europe (killing at least four-times moe people than adolf). Let the Israelis tell you about the sect that carried out that genocide.

    Stalin's Jews
    We mustn't forget that some of greatest murderers of modern times were Jewish
    https://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3342999,00.html
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  11. “Brennan had a strong motive to strike back at Moscow. He had “a dog in the fight”, and his dog lost. And since he couldn’t win on the battlefield, his only choice was to launch an asymmetrical attack via the media. Isn’t this where the Russia hacking idea originated?” — Whitney

    The pity of it is that many Americans now find Putin more credible than any American president! In such a mishmash, Whitney has cut through the identity politics and the personality cults to get almost to the root — where it started in 2013 — the real issue that no government wants citizens to recognize or understand, the issue of WMDs — in this case, chemical warfare. Here’s the story, told from the official USA side , complete with anti-Russian headline that hardly represents the story itself:

    https://tcf.org/content/report/red-line-redux-putin-tore-obamas-2013-syria-deal/

    Forget about official USA bias in this account by The Century Foundation, the history is accurate enough that we easily see that there is no consensus on any of it. For one brief moment – long enough that some horrible WMDs were destroyed – Russia and USA seemed to act sensibly together … and then … back to the never-ending fight. It reminds of a Tom-and-Jerry cartoon, where the action suddenly freezes due to some distraction, and then the cat and the mouse resume where they left off.

    What is the best that we can hope for? That somehow we can untangle the Gordian knot of she-said-he-said — about supposed Russian hacking in election 2016 (?) — before one Last Superpower or another resorts to the sword of nuclear Armageddon?

    How about this as our goal — maybe, just maybe, we can somehow return to pre-9-11 levels of cooperation between USA and Russia.

    Without having to relive 9-11 either metaphorically or virtually?

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    • Replies: @Seamus Padraig
    That pre-9/11 "cooperation" nearly destroyed Russia. Nobody in Russia (except, perhaps, for Pussy Riot) wants a return to the Yeltsin era.
    , @Anon
    A worthy repost from the comment section of: "Above All" - The Junta Expands Its Claim To Power" http://www.moonofalabama.org/2017/10/above-all-the-junta-expands-its-claim-to-power.html#c6a00d8341c640e53ef01bb09cfaf4b970d

    Posted by Camillus O'Byrne:
    "... These clowns call themselves "General" and we are supposed to think that puts them in the same class as a Wellington or a Caesar or Napoleon? They were all first class bastards, ruthless, but fine Generals. Tough, bold, audacious leaders of men and brilliant strategists, who took risks, including with their own lives. Hell, the Prussian officer training system turned out Quartermasters that were better field Generals than these American frauds.
    As I have said in another thread, the US has none of the martial virtues. Not as a people, not as military institutions, not as individual soldiers or sailors (their airmen are obviously cowards or psychopaths so not necessary even to consider in this context). Virtues such as steadfastness in adversity, discipline when under fire, self-sacrifice for comrades and the cause. Not saying anything about the morality of any particular cause here, just what makes a professional army. To compare the US military with Rome's Legions, say, is laughable. The biggest difference between these American whackers is that in real armies individuals are expected to be able to contend with a worthy adversary. To take risks. To fight when it is HARD to fight. Even Rome's patricians understood that every now and then they had to expose themselves to danger if they were to have any honour, as Crassus, richest of them all, found out very dramatically when he met his end at the head of the Syrian Legions. (Defeated by the Iranians! - they've seen 'em all come and go). Windbags like Kelly wouldn't know what honour is.
    The US has NEVER fought an adversary on anything like equal terms. They preen themselves about WW2. I call BS. They waited until the Soviets had broken the back of the most fearsome war machine in history, the Wehrmacht and then faced teenagers and old men in France. On the occasions when they did face professional German troops they had their whiney arses kicked. As for the Pacific war, they stood off island after island and rained a stupendous amount of naval shells and bombs on the Japanese garrisons to the point where they were insane with the cacophany and pure physical terror to turn your bowels to water, before setting foot on them, while the aerial destruction of Japanese cities is one of the great atrocities in history, disgraceful and completely without honour. I suspect a disproportionate number of US military casualties are due to being run over by a forklift, training accidents, friendly fire, syphilis or fragging of their own. The qualities the US military (they don't deserve the epithet "army") exemplifies are cowardice, incompetence, viciousness and wanton destructiveness...."

    , @hyperbola
    Aaaaaaggghhhh!

    Forget about official USA bias in this account by The Century Foundation.....
     
    This is NOT USA bias. The Century Foundation has become just another of the zionist propaganda organizations with connections all the way back to Edward Bernays in the generation of propaganda for gullible Americans. That the Century Foundation is still publishing such assertions is shameful.

    Whose sarin?
    https://www.lrb.co.uk/v35/n24/seymour-m-hersh/whose-sarin

    Trump‘s Red Line
    https://www.welt.de/politik/ausland/article165905578/Trump-s-Red-Line.html

    The real issue is NOT WMDs. The real issue is control of American foreign policy by a racist-supremacist, mideast sect.
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  12. The elephant in the room is Israel and the neocons , this is the force that controls America and Americas foreign policy , Brennan and the 17 intel agencies are puppets of the mossad and Israel, that is the brutal fact of the matter.

    Until that fact changes Americans will continue to fight and die for Israel.

    Read More
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  13. This author (and I suspect it’s actually several authors) has a tendency to announce events as imminent and inevitable on an almost daily basis. For at least 14 years, he has been announcing the imminent and inevitable demise of the EU and the euro. Hasn’t happened yet! Now, it’s the imminent and inevitable victory of Vladimir Putin in Syria, and, needless to say, Ukraine (the main event). On past performance, that isn’t going to happen either!
    Putin stopped talking about the “Lisbon to Vladivostok” free trade area long ago (the quote dates from February 2012). As a practical matter, it’s hard to see how he could force the EU Member States to sign up to such an arrangement, particularly in the light of his conduct in Ukraine, which contradicts the whole concept. In any event, even if it came into existence, it would be dominated by Germany and China since Russia is too far to the east to dominate Europe and too far to the north to dominate Asia. Equally, I doubt if China would accept its exclusion from such a zone since that runs counter to its “Silk Road” policy. That policy, indeed, is undercutting Putin in Central Asia inasmuch as, by building railways to non-Russian ports, it is breaking the Russian stranglehold on those countries’ trade and transport.
    To me, therefore, this kind of wide-ranging attack suggests panic among Putin’s American supporters. There must be something really dirty in Russigate that hasn’t yet come out to generate this level of panic.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Wally
    Hasbarist 'Kenny', you said:

    "There must be something really dirty in Russigate that hasn’t yet come out to generate this level of panic."

    You continue to claim what you cannot prove.

    But then you are a Jews First Zionist.

    Russia-Gate Jumps the Shark
    Russia-gate has jumped the shark with laughable new claims about a tiny number of “Russia-linked” social media ads, but the US mainstream media is determined to keep a straight face
    https://www.lewrockwell.com/2017/10/robert-parry/jumping-the-shark/

    Yet Another Major Russia Story Falls Apart. Is Skepticism Permissible Yet?
    https://theintercept.com/2017/09/28/yet-another-major-russia-story-falls-apart-is-skepticism-permissible-yet/
    + review of other frauds

    , @Grandpa Charlie

    'Putin stopped talking about the “Lisbon to Vladivostok” free trade area long ago" -- Michael Kenney
     
    Putin was simply trying to sell Russia's application for EU membership with the catch-phrase "Lisbon to Vladivostok". He continued that until the issue was triply mooted (1) by implosion of EU growth and boosterism, (2) by NATO's aggressive stance, in effect taken by NATO in Ukraine events and in the Baltics, and, (3) Russia's alliance with China.

    It is surely still true that Russians think of themselves, categorically, as Europeans. OTOH, we can easily imagine that Russians in Vladivostok look at things differently than do Russians in St. Petersburg. Then again, Vladivostok only goes back about a century and a half.
    , @WJ
    I'm not a Putin supporter or Putin "hater" but I do support what he has done in Syria. Contrary to your statement about not winning in Syria, that war is almost over with the rational, reasonable Assad as the victor instead of the insane ISIS/Al Qaeda alliance. Trump, despite his symbolic missile attack over 6 months ago,has done his part by cutting off aid to the the jihadi resistance to Assad.

    Regarding "Russiagate" as you put it, I assume you will be disappointed on January 1, 2021, when Trump is still in office, perhaps about to start his second term. I say perhaps because I am not convinced he will run again.
    , @jacques sheete

    There must be something really dirty in Russigate that hasn’t yet come out to generate this level of panic.
     
    Yeh, and Whitney did a fine job of exposing it; and in the first few paragraphs no less. In case you missed it, the "dirt" is that our so called "protectors" are FoS as always.

    Screw the CIA and the rest of the sickening bureaucracy.
    , @Anon
    "There must be something really dirty in Russigate..." -- Clintons' uranium deal? $140 million is a nice gesheft.

    Here is your kaganists' vision for Ukraine:" Bryan McDonald —20,000 Nazis March in Kiev. The Western Media Somehow Fails to Notice." http://mikenormaneconomics.blogspot.com/2017/10/bryan-mcdonald-20000-nazis-march-in.html "...we had a major Nazi gathering in a European capital and the only English language sources that show up in a Google News search are from RT, Sputnik, The Nation and a half-hearted seven-sentence ‘report’ by US state broadcaster RFE/RL, which meekly describes them as mere 'nationalists.' That means there is nothing from CNN, the Guardian, the New York Times, Washington Post or the BBC, among the usual suspects who make every little protest in Russia headline news....
    "Neo-Nazis Organize Massive Torchlit March Through Kiev" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FlsmLws0Ohk
    "Neo-Nazis stage hateful torch-lit march – MSM says nothing. They shouted “death to Russians” while praising local Nazi collaborators as well as Adolf Hitler." http://theduran.com/neo-nazis-stage-hateful-torch-lit-march-msm-says-nothing/

    Not a peep from ADL, by the way. Hey, Nuland-Kagan and entire Atlantic Council, great job of supporting and promoting the Nazi legacy.

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  14. @Logan
    You should be aware that Zinn's book is not, IMO, an honest attempt at writing history. It is conscious propaganda intended to make Americans believe exactly what you are taking from it.

    “Zinn’s book is not, IMO, an honest attempt at writing history. It is conscious propaganda” — Logan

    That’s one way of putting it, Logan. I once had a dispute with a friend who believed, based on Zinn, that North Korea had not initiated the Korean War. I had merely detailed and vivid accounts told to me personally by eye witnesses – both civilian Koreans and American military (who were also quite critical of the American occupation and of the Rhee dictatorship). My friend later got back to me that he had investigated outside of Zinn and discovered, after exhaustive research, that Zinn was doubtlessly incorrect on the beginning of the Korean War … but my friend also noted that in his introduction to his book, Zinn said that he wasn’t actually trying to do anything but to present another side for Americans who had never been exposed to any history except that found in official American textbooks.

    I reckon that’s conscious propaganda of a sort — the sort that I see a lot of here at UR.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Logan
    Fair enough. I didn't know that about the foreword. If accurate, that's a reasonable approach for a book.

    Here's the problem.

    Back when O. Cromwell was the dictator of England, he retained an artist to paint him. The custom of the time was for artists to "clean up" their subjects, in a primitive form of photoshopping.

    OC being a religious fanatic, he informed the artist he wished to be portrayed as God had made him, "warts and all." (Ollie had a bunch of unattractive facial warts.) Or the artist wouldn't be paid.

    https://www.theguardian.com/artanddesign/2013/nov/08/cromwell-portraitist-samuel-cooper-exhibition

    Traditional triumphalist American narrative history, as taught in schools up through the 60s or so, portrayed America as "wart-free." Since then, with Zinn's book playing a major role, it has increasingly been portrayed as "warts-only," which is of course at least equally flawed. I would say more so.

    All I am asking is that American (and other) history be written "warts and all." The triumphalist version is true, largely, and so is the Zinn version. Gone With the Wind and Roots both portray certain aspects of the pre-war south fairly accurately..

    America has been, and is, both evil and good. As is/was true of every human institution and government in history. Personally, I believe America, net/net, has been one of the greatest forces for human good ever. But nobody will realize that if only the negative side of American history is taught.

    , @Horace J
    Origins of the Korean war are quite complex. There is no simple answer. You may wan to consult the article at this link:

    http://original.antiwar.com/justin/2013/07/28/who-really-started-the-korean-war/

    And consult the links within. A rich and fascinating history awaits.

    See this for why the North Korean invasion, though alarming in D.C. was considered a god-send by many in Washington:

    https://www.shmoop.com/korean-war/politics.html
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  15. TG says:

    “The absence of evidence suggests that Russia hacking narrative is a sloppy and unprofessional disinformation campaign that was hastily slapped together by over confident Intelligence officials who believed that saturating the public airwaves with one absurd story after another would achieve the desired result…”

    But it DID achieve the desired result! Trump folded under the pressure, and went full out neoliberal. Starting with his missile attack on Syria, he is now OK with spending trillions fighting pointless endless foreign wars on the other side of the world.

    I think maybe half the US population does believe the Russian hacking thing, but that’s not really the issue. I think that the pre-Syrian attack media blitz was more a statement of brute power to Trump: WE are in charge here, and WE can take you down and impeach you, and facts don’t matter!

    Sometimes propaganda is about persuading people. And sometimes, I think, it is about intimidating them.

    Read More
    • Replies: @jacques sheete

    Sometimes propaganda is about persuading people. And sometimes, I think, it is about intimidating them.
     
    It's about controlling us. Sometimes through persuasion (very difficult), but usually through fear (much easier).
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  16. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer

    Whitney is another author who declares the “Russians did it” narrative a psyop. He then devotes entire columns to the psyop, “naww Russia didn’t do it”.

    There could be plenty to write about – recent laws that do undercut liberty, but no, the Washington Post needs fake opposition to its fake news so you have guys like Whitney in the less-mainstream fake news media.

    So Brennan wanted revenge? Well that’s simple enough to understand, without being too stupid. But Whitney’s whopper of a lie is what you’re supposed to unquestionably believe. The US has “rival political parties”. Did you miss it?

    Read More
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  17. Jake says:

    The US is doing nothing more than acting as the British Empire 2.0.

    WASP culture was born of a Judaizing heresy: Anglo-Saxon Puritanism. That meant that the WASP Elites of every are pro-Jewish, especially in order to wage war, physical and/or cultural, against the vast majority of white Christians they rule.

    By the early 19th century, The Brit Empire’s Elites also had a strong, and growing, dose of pro-Arabic/pro-Islamic philoSemitism. Most of that group became ardently pro-Sunni, and most of the pro-Sunni ones eventually coalescing around promotion of the House of Saud, which means being pro-Wahhabi and permanently desirous of killing or enslaving virtually all Shiite Mohammedans.

    So, by the time of Victoria’s high reign, the Brit WASP Elites were a strange brew of hardcoree pro-Jewish and hardcore pro-Arabic/islamic. The US foreign policy of today is an attempt to put those two together and force it on everyone and make it work.

    The Brit secret service, in effect, created and trained not merely the CIA but also the Mossad and Saudi Arabia’s General Intelligence Presidency. All four are defined by endless lies, endless acts of utterly amoral savagery. All 4 are at least as bad as the KGB ever was, and that means as bad as Hell itself.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Logan
    Most of that group became ardently pro-Sunni, and most of the pro-Sunni ones eventually coalescing around promotion of the House of Saud, which means being pro-Wahhabi and permanently desirous of killing or enslaving virtually all Shiite Mohammedans.

    Thanks for the laugh. During the 19th century, the Sauds were toothless, dirt-poor hicks from the deep desert of zero importance on the world stage.

    The Brits were not Saudi proponents, in fact promoting the Husseins of Hejaz, the guys Lawrence of Arabia worked with. The Husseins, the Sharifs of Mecca and rulers of Hejaz, were the hereditary enemies of the Sauds of Nejd.

    After WWI, the Brits installed Husseins as rulers of both Transjordan and Iraq, which with the Hejaz meant the Sauds were pretty much surrounded. The Sauds conquered the Hejaz in 1924, despite lukewarm British support for the Hejaz.

    Nobody in the world cared much about the Saudis one way or another until massive oil fields were discovered, by Americans not Brits, starting in 1938. There was no reason they should. Prior to that Saudi prominence in world affairs was about equal to that of Chad today, and for much the same reason. Chad (and Saudi Arabia) had nothing anybody else wanted.

    , @Wally
    Jake has no proof whatsoever for any of his threadbare 'blame the gentiles' tactics.

    Jake just makes things up to suit his supremacist Jew, aren't we special, 'Chosen Ones' agenda.

    The tide is turning.

    www.codoh.com
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  18. Logan says:
    @Grandpa Charlie

    "Zinn’s book is not, IMO, an honest attempt at writing history. It is conscious propaganda" -- Logan
     
    That's one way of putting it, Logan. I once had a dispute with a friend who believed, based on Zinn, that North Korea had not initiated the Korean War. I had merely detailed and vivid accounts told to me personally by eye witnesses - both civilian Koreans and American military (who were also quite critical of the American occupation and of the Rhee dictatorship). My friend later got back to me that he had investigated outside of Zinn and discovered, after exhaustive research, that Zinn was doubtlessly incorrect on the beginning of the Korean War ... but my friend also noted that in his introduction to his book, Zinn said that he wasn't actually trying to do anything but to present another side for Americans who had never been exposed to any history except that found in official American textbooks.

    I reckon that's conscious propaganda of a sort -- the sort that I see a lot of here at UR.

    Fair enough. I didn’t know that about the foreword. If accurate, that’s a reasonable approach for a book.

    Here’s the problem.

    Back when O. Cromwell was the dictator of England, he retained an artist to paint him. The custom of the time was for artists to “clean up” their subjects, in a primitive form of photoshopping.

    OC being a religious fanatic, he informed the artist he wished to be portrayed as God had made him, “warts and all.” (Ollie had a bunch of unattractive facial warts.) Or the artist wouldn’t be paid.

    https://www.theguardian.com/artanddesign/2013/nov/08/cromwell-portraitist-samuel-cooper-exhibition

    Traditional triumphalist American narrative history, as taught in schools up through the 60s or so, portrayed America as “wart-free.” Since then, with Zinn’s book playing a major role, it has increasingly been portrayed as “warts-only,” which is of course at least equally flawed. I would say more so.

    All I am asking is that American (and other) history be written “warts and all.” The triumphalist version is true, largely, and so is the Zinn version. Gone With the Wind and Roots both portray certain aspects of the pre-war south fairly accurately..

    America has been, and is, both evil and good. As is/was true of every human institution and government in history. Personally, I believe America, net/net, has been one of the greatest forces for human good ever. But nobody will realize that if only the negative side of American history is taught.

    Read More
    • Agree: Grandpa Charlie
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  19. Wally says:
    @Michael Kenny
    This author (and I suspect it's actually several authors) has a tendency to announce events as imminent and inevitable on an almost daily basis. For at least 14 years, he has been announcing the imminent and inevitable demise of the EU and the euro. Hasn't happened yet! Now, it's the imminent and inevitable victory of Vladimir Putin in Syria, and, needless to say, Ukraine (the main event). On past performance, that isn't going to happen either!
    Putin stopped talking about the “Lisbon to Vladivostok” free trade area long ago (the quote dates from February 2012). As a practical matter, it’s hard to see how he could force the EU Member States to sign up to such an arrangement, particularly in the light of his conduct in Ukraine, which contradicts the whole concept. In any event, even if it came into existence, it would be dominated by Germany and China since Russia is too far to the east to dominate Europe and too far to the north to dominate Asia. Equally, I doubt if China would accept its exclusion from such a zone since that runs counter to its “Silk Road” policy. That policy, indeed, is undercutting Putin in Central Asia inasmuch as, by building railways to non-Russian ports, it is breaking the Russian stranglehold on those countries’ trade and transport.
    To me, therefore, this kind of wide-ranging attack suggests panic among Putin's American supporters. There must be something really dirty in Russigate that hasn't yet come out to generate this level of panic.

    Hasbarist ‘Kenny’, you said:

    “There must be something really dirty in Russigate that hasn’t yet come out to generate this level of panic.”

    You continue to claim what you cannot prove.

    But then you are a Jews First Zionist.

    Russia-Gate Jumps the Shark
    Russia-gate has jumped the shark with laughable new claims about a tiny number of “Russia-linked” social media ads, but the US mainstream media is determined to keep a straight face

    https://www.lewrockwell.com/2017/10/robert-parry/jumping-the-shark/

    Yet Another Major Russia Story Falls Apart. Is Skepticism Permissible Yet?

    https://theintercept.com/2017/09/28/yet-another-major-russia-story-falls-apart-is-skepticism-permissible-yet/

    + review of other frauds

    Read More
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  20. Logan says:
    @Jake
    The US is doing nothing more than acting as the British Empire 2.0.

    WASP culture was born of a Judaizing heresy: Anglo-Saxon Puritanism. That meant that the WASP Elites of every are pro-Jewish, especially in order to wage war, physical and/or cultural, against the vast majority of white Christians they rule.

    By the early 19th century, The Brit Empire's Elites also had a strong, and growing, dose of pro-Arabic/pro-Islamic philoSemitism. Most of that group became ardently pro-Sunni, and most of the pro-Sunni ones eventually coalescing around promotion of the House of Saud, which means being pro-Wahhabi and permanently desirous of killing or enslaving virtually all Shiite Mohammedans.

    So, by the time of Victoria's high reign, the Brit WASP Elites were a strange brew of hardcoree pro-Jewish and hardcore pro-Arabic/islamic. The US foreign policy of today is an attempt to put those two together and force it on everyone and make it work.


    The Brit secret service, in effect, created and trained not merely the CIA but also the Mossad and Saudi Arabia's General Intelligence Presidency. All four are defined by endless lies, endless acts of utterly amoral savagery. All 4 are at least as bad as the KGB ever was, and that means as bad as Hell itself.

    Most of that group became ardently pro-Sunni, and most of the pro-Sunni ones eventually coalescing around promotion of the House of Saud, which means being pro-Wahhabi and permanently desirous of killing or enslaving virtually all Shiite Mohammedans.

    Thanks for the laugh. During the 19th century, the Sauds were toothless, dirt-poor hicks from the deep desert of zero importance on the world stage.

    The Brits were not Saudi proponents, in fact promoting the Husseins of Hejaz, the guys Lawrence of Arabia worked with. The Husseins, the Sharifs of Mecca and rulers of Hejaz, were the hereditary enemies of the Sauds of Nejd.

    After WWI, the Brits installed Husseins as rulers of both Transjordan and Iraq, which with the Hejaz meant the Sauds were pretty much surrounded. The Sauds conquered the Hejaz in 1924, despite lukewarm British support for the Hejaz.

    Nobody in the world cared much about the Saudis one way or another until massive oil fields were discovered, by Americans not Brits, starting in 1938. There was no reason they should. Prior to that Saudi prominence in world affairs was about equal to that of Chad today, and for much the same reason. Chad (and Saudi Arabia) had nothing anybody else wanted.

    Read More
    • Agree: Alden
    • Replies: @jacques sheete

    Nobody in the world cared much about the Saudis one way or another until massive oil fields were discovered, by Americans not Brits, starting in 1938. There was no reason they should.
     
    Your comment, while technically true (The Kingdom of Saudi Arabia was founded in 1932 by Ibn Saud) , seems a bit misleading vis a vis the importance of oil in the area.

    Oil on the Arabian Peninsula was discovered as early as 1908, but consideration of the area as a likely source of hydrocarbons didn’t really take off until a 1932 oil discovery in neighboring Bahrain. The first significant Saudi Arabian discovery was at Dammam well no 7 on March 4, 1938.

    https://info.drillinginfo.com/saudi-arabia-oil-need-know/
     

    Worthwhile read.:

    Oil Imperialism The International Struggle for Petroleum

    Louis Fischer
    Hyperion Press, 1926

     


    As things have turned out, it is an odd coincidence how so many of these places that have iron or coal or oil in them seem to represent a well-understood war-aim.

    - A J Nock, THE MYTH OF A GUILTY NATION, Page 29 1922
     

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  21. @Michael Kenny
    This author (and I suspect it's actually several authors) has a tendency to announce events as imminent and inevitable on an almost daily basis. For at least 14 years, he has been announcing the imminent and inevitable demise of the EU and the euro. Hasn't happened yet! Now, it's the imminent and inevitable victory of Vladimir Putin in Syria, and, needless to say, Ukraine (the main event). On past performance, that isn't going to happen either!
    Putin stopped talking about the “Lisbon to Vladivostok” free trade area long ago (the quote dates from February 2012). As a practical matter, it’s hard to see how he could force the EU Member States to sign up to such an arrangement, particularly in the light of his conduct in Ukraine, which contradicts the whole concept. In any event, even if it came into existence, it would be dominated by Germany and China since Russia is too far to the east to dominate Europe and too far to the north to dominate Asia. Equally, I doubt if China would accept its exclusion from such a zone since that runs counter to its “Silk Road” policy. That policy, indeed, is undercutting Putin in Central Asia inasmuch as, by building railways to non-Russian ports, it is breaking the Russian stranglehold on those countries’ trade and transport.
    To me, therefore, this kind of wide-ranging attack suggests panic among Putin's American supporters. There must be something really dirty in Russigate that hasn't yet come out to generate this level of panic.

    ‘Putin stopped talking about the “Lisbon to Vladivostok” free trade area long ago” — Michael Kenney

    Putin was simply trying to sell Russia’s application for EU membership with the catch-phrase “Lisbon to Vladivostok”. He continued that until the issue was triply mooted (1) by implosion of EU growth and boosterism, (2) by NATO’s aggressive stance, in effect taken by NATO in Ukraine events and in the Baltics, and, (3) Russia’s alliance with China.

    It is surely still true that Russians think of themselves, categorically, as Europeans. OTOH, we can easily imagine that Russians in Vladivostok look at things differently than do Russians in St. Petersburg. Then again, Vladivostok only goes back about a century and a half.

    Read More
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  22. Wally says:
    @Jake
    The US is doing nothing more than acting as the British Empire 2.0.

    WASP culture was born of a Judaizing heresy: Anglo-Saxon Puritanism. That meant that the WASP Elites of every are pro-Jewish, especially in order to wage war, physical and/or cultural, against the vast majority of white Christians they rule.

    By the early 19th century, The Brit Empire's Elites also had a strong, and growing, dose of pro-Arabic/pro-Islamic philoSemitism. Most of that group became ardently pro-Sunni, and most of the pro-Sunni ones eventually coalescing around promotion of the House of Saud, which means being pro-Wahhabi and permanently desirous of killing or enslaving virtually all Shiite Mohammedans.

    So, by the time of Victoria's high reign, the Brit WASP Elites were a strange brew of hardcoree pro-Jewish and hardcore pro-Arabic/islamic. The US foreign policy of today is an attempt to put those two together and force it on everyone and make it work.


    The Brit secret service, in effect, created and trained not merely the CIA but also the Mossad and Saudi Arabia's General Intelligence Presidency. All four are defined by endless lies, endless acts of utterly amoral savagery. All 4 are at least as bad as the KGB ever was, and that means as bad as Hell itself.

    Jake has no proof whatsoever for any of his threadbare ‘blame the gentiles’ tactics.

    Jake just makes things up to suit his supremacist Jew, aren’t we special, ‘Chosen Ones’ agenda.

    The tide is turning.

    http://www.codoh.com

    Read More
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  23. @utu
    Again Mike Whitney does not get it. Though in the first part of the article I thought he would. He was almost getting there. The objective was to push new administration into the corner from which it could not improve relations with Russia as Trump indicated that he wanted to during the campaign. Convincing Americans in Russia's influence or Russia collusion with Trump was only a tool that would create pressure on Trump that together with the fear of paralysis of his administration and impeachment would push Trump into the corner from which the only thing he could do was to worsen relations with Russia. What American people believe or not is really secondary. With firing of Gen. Flynn Trump acted exactly as they wanted him to act. This was the beginning of downward slope.

    Anyway, the mission was accomplished and the relations with Russia are worse now than during Obama administration. Trump can concentrate on Iran in which he will be supported by all sides and factions including the media. Even Larry David will approve not only the zionist harpies like Pam Geller, Rita Katz and Ilana Mercer.

    Pamela Geller: Thank You, Larry David
    http://www.breitbart.com/big-hollywood/2017/10/19/pamela-geller-thank-larry-david/

    Anyway, the mission was accomplished and the relations with Russia are worse now than during Obama administration.

    I generally agree with your comment, but that part strikes me as a bit of an exaggeration. While relations with Russia certainly haven’t improved, how have they really worsened? The second round of sanctions that Trump reluctantly approved have yet to be implemented by Europe, which was the goal. And apart from that, what of substance has changed?

    Read More
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  24. @Grandpa Charlie

    "Brennan had a strong motive to strike back at Moscow. He had “a dog in the fight”, and his dog lost. And since he couldn’t win on the battlefield, his only choice was to launch an asymmetrical attack via the media. Isn’t this where the Russia hacking idea originated?" -- Whitney
     
    The pity of it is that many Americans now find Putin more credible than any American president! In such a mishmash, Whitney has cut through the identity politics and the personality cults to get almost to the root -- where it started in 2013 -- the real issue that no government wants citizens to recognize or understand, the issue of WMDs -- in this case, chemical warfare. Here's the story, told from the official USA side , complete with anti-Russian headline that hardly represents the story itself:

    https://tcf.org/content/report/red-line-redux-putin-tore-obamas-2013-syria-deal/

    Forget about official USA bias in this account by The Century Foundation, the history is accurate enough that we easily see that there is no consensus on any of it. For one brief moment - long enough that some horrible WMDs were destroyed - Russia and USA seemed to act sensibly together ... and then ... back to the never-ending fight. It reminds of a Tom-and-Jerry cartoon, where the action suddenly freezes due to some distraction, and then the cat and the mouse resume where they left off.

    What is the best that we can hope for? That somehow we can untangle the Gordian knot of she-said-he-said -- about supposed Russian hacking in election 2016 (?) -- before one Last Superpower or another resorts to the sword of nuclear Armageddon?

    How about this as our goal -- maybe, just maybe, we can somehow return to pre-9-11 levels of cooperation between USA and Russia.

    Without having to relive 9-11 either metaphorically or virtually?

    That pre-9/11 “cooperation” nearly destroyed Russia. Nobody in Russia (except, perhaps, for Pussy Riot) wants a return to the Yeltsin era.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Grandpa Charlie

    "That pre-9/11 “cooperation” nearly destroyed Russia. Nobody in Russia (except, perhaps, for Pussy Riot) wants a return to the Yeltsin era" -- Seamus Padraig
     
    Seamus,

    I did not mean, by "pre-9/11 cooperation," to indicate the con-game give-aways or wholesale looting by Russian oligarchs of Russia's mineral and oil wealth, wrecking the Russian economic infrastructure, impoverishing the Russian working class, that Yeltsin presided over in Russia in the 1990s. What I meant by "pre-9/11 cooperation” was the extensive and intensive cooperation of USA and Russia on destroying nuclear weapons and other WMD -- actual practical steps taken cooperatively by the two superpowers away from rather than toward nuclear Armageddon.

    To document the extent of such USA-Russia cooperation, I here present three quotes from "The Nunn-Lugar Program" (OPB's Frontline) interview of Ashton Carter:

    "We had exercises where our troops and Russian troops would get together and work together."

    "So our relationship with the Russian military, between the Department of Defense of the United States and the Ministry of Defense of Russia, is very good."

    "Moreover, we have lots of other common interests with the Russian military. Our troops and Russian troops are shoulder to shoulder in Bosnia today. So there were other things helping us build a relationship with the Russian military. The Russian Atomic Energy Ministry is something of a throw-back, in western terms at least. It is still working in a way that our Atomic Energy Commission was in the 1950s and 1960s....They're working on projects that we have regarded as either dangerous from a proliferation point of view, or not economically sound..., for example, breeder reactors. So the Russian Atomic Energy Ministry, there's more of a mismatch between them and us than between the Russian military and the US military...."
     
    To compare that former close Russia-USA collaboration with the situation today:

    "Military-to-military engagement on Euro-Atlantic issues between NATO and Russia, as well as the United States and Russia, has—for all practical purposes—been terminated."-- quoted from Nuclear Threat Initiative (NTI) paper, Rising Nuclear Dangers [etc.], by Robert E. Berls, Jr., and Leon Ratz (2015)
     
    From Reuter's "Commentary: The number one reason to fix U.S.-Russia relations" (November 2016) "

    "The danger from the erosion in nuclear arms control is exacerbated by the fact that the American and Russian miltaries are no longer in regular contact. ....

    "As part of its goal of reducing the risk that militants will obtain a nuclear weapon or nuclear material such as weapons-grade uranium, should the DOE restart cooperation with Rosatom, frozen after the Crimea annexation? In exchange, the United States could demand that Russia sign back on to the plutonium disposal agreement and agree to change it so that the United States can bury its excess plutonium underground.

    "Washington policymakers should understand that Russian-American nuclear cooperation is not a concession to Moscow, but a strong U.S. national security interest. ... [T]here are about four minutes between the time that the president gives the order to use nuclear weapons and when the weapons are launched. Trump must find ways to reduce the risk of a catastrophic nuclear exchange – and getting U.S.-Russian collaboration back on track is the best way to do so."
     
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  25. It’s not surprising that 57 percent of the American people believe in Russian meddling. Didn’t two-thirds of the same crowd believe that Saddam was behind 9/11, too? The American public is being brainwashed 24 hours a day all year long.

    The CIA is the world largest criminal and terrorist organization. With Brennan the worst has come to the worst. The whole Russian meddling affair was initiated by the Obama/Clinton gang in cooperation with 95 percent of the media. Nothing will come out of it.

    This disinformation campaign might be the prelude to an upcoming war.
    Right now, the US is run by jerks and idiots. Watch the video.

    Read More
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  26. anonymous says: • Disclaimer

    Only dumb people does not know that TRUMP IS NETANYAHU’S PUPPET.

    The fifth column zionist jews are running the albino stooge and foreign policy in the Middle East to expand Israel’s interest against American interest that is TREASON. One of these FIFTH COLUMNISTS is Jared Kushner. He should be arrested.

    https://www.globalresearch.ca/donald-trumps-likudist-campaign-against-iran/5614264

    [The key figures who had primary influence on both Trump’s and Bush’s Iran policies held views close to those of Israel’s right-wing Likud Party. The main conduit for the Likudist line in the Trump White House is Jared Kushner, the president’s son-in-law, primary foreign policy advisor, and longtime friend and supporter of Netanyahu. Kushner’s parents are also long-time supporters of Israeli settlements on the occupied West Bank.

    Another figure to whom the Trump White House has turned is John Bolton, undersecretary of state and a key policymaker on Iran in the Bush administration. Although Bolton was not appointed Trump’s secretary of state, as he’d hoped, he suddenly reemerged as a player on Iran policy thanks to his relationship with Kushner. Politico reports that Bolton met with Kushner a few days before the final policy statement was released and urged a complete withdrawal from the deal in favor of his own plan for containing Iran.

    Bolton spoke with Trump by phone on Thursday about the paragraph in the deal that vowed it would be “terminated” if there was any renegotiation, according toPolitico. He was calling Trump from Las Vegas, where he’d been meeting with casino magnate Sheldon Adelson, the third major figure behind Trump’s shift towards Israeli issues. Adelson is a Likud supporter who has long been a close friend of Netanyahu’s and has used his Israeli tabloid newspaper Israel Hayomto support Netanyahu’s campaigns. He was Trump’s main campaign contributor in 2016, donating $100 million. Adelson’s real interest has been in supporting Israel’s interests in Washington—especially with regard to Iran.]

    Read More
    • Replies: @Alden
    And yet every Jew I know but one hates and loathes Trump because the official Jewish publications told them to hate and loathe and vote against Trump.
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  27. Miro23 says:

    A great article with some excellent points:

    Putin’s dream of Greater Europe is the death knell for the unipolar world order. It means the economic center of the world will shift to Central Asia where abundant resources and cheap labor of the east will be linked to the technological advances and the Capital the of the west eliminating the need to trade in dollars or recycle profits into US debt. The US economy will slip into irreversible decline, and the global hegemon will steadily lose its grip on power. That’s why it is imperative for the US prevail in Ukraine– a critical land bridge connecting the two continents– and to topple Assad in Syria in order to control vital resources and pipeline corridors. Washington must be in a position where it can continue to force its trading partners to denominate their resources in dollars and recycle the proceeds into US Treasuries if it is to maintain its global primacy. The main problem is that Russia is blocking Uncle Sam’s path to success which is roiling the political establishment in Washington.

    American dominance is very much tied to the dollar’s role as the world’s reserve currency, and the rest of the world no longer want to fund this bankrupt, warlike state – particularly the Chinese.

    First, it confirms that the US did not want to see the jihadist extremists defeated by Russia. These mainly-Sunni militias served as Washington’s proxy-army conducting an ambitious regime change operation which coincided with US strategic ambitions.

    The CIA run US/Israeli/ISIS alliance.

    Second, Zakharova confirms that the western media is not an independent news gathering organization, but a propaganda organ for the foreign policy establishment who dictates what they can and can’t say.

    They are given the political line and they broadcast it.

    The loosening of rules governing the dissemination of domestic propaganda coupled with the extraordinary advances in surveillance technology, create the perfect conditions for the full implementation of an American police state. But what is more concerning, is that the primary levers of state power are no longer controlled by elected officials but by factions within the state whose interests do not coincide with those of the American people. That can only lead to trouble.

    At some point Americans are going to get a “War on Domestic Terror” cheered along by the media. More or less the arrest and incarceration of any opposition following the Soviet Bolshevik model.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Rurik

    American dominance is very much tied to the dollar’s role as the world’s reserve currency, and the rest of the world no longer want to fund this bankrupt, warlike state – particularly the Chinese.
     
    indeed, there are many Americans like myself that pray the world will find a way to end the Federal Reserve Note as the world's reserve currency.

    As long as this state of affairs persists, the Fiend will reign supreme.


    At some point Americans are going to get a “War on Domestic Terror” cheered along by the media. More or less the arrest and incarceration of any opposition following the Soviet Bolshevik model.
     
    under Hillary I would say that would have been a dead certainty

    Under Trump, I'm not so sure..

    as long as the American people are armed to the teeth, (and we are ; ), then I feel reasonably assured that a full-scale, gulag type of Soviet system is far off, false flag or no false flag, (so long as we have our guns)

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  28. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @utu
    Again Mike Whitney does not get it. Though in the first part of the article I thought he would. He was almost getting there. The objective was to push new administration into the corner from which it could not improve relations with Russia as Trump indicated that he wanted to during the campaign. Convincing Americans in Russia's influence or Russia collusion with Trump was only a tool that would create pressure on Trump that together with the fear of paralysis of his administration and impeachment would push Trump into the corner from which the only thing he could do was to worsen relations with Russia. What American people believe or not is really secondary. With firing of Gen. Flynn Trump acted exactly as they wanted him to act. This was the beginning of downward slope.

    Anyway, the mission was accomplished and the relations with Russia are worse now than during Obama administration. Trump can concentrate on Iran in which he will be supported by all sides and factions including the media. Even Larry David will approve not only the zionist harpies like Pam Geller, Rita Katz and Ilana Mercer.

    Pamela Geller: Thank You, Larry David
    http://www.breitbart.com/big-hollywood/2017/10/19/pamela-geller-thank-larry-david/

    On the plus side, everyone now knows that the Anglo-US media from the NY Times to the Economist, from WaPo to the Gruniard, and from the BBC to CNN, the CBC and Weinstein’s Hollywood are a worthless bunch of depraved lying bastards.

    Read More
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  29. Brennan did this, CIA did that….

    So what are you going to do about all this?

    Continue to whine?

    Continue to keep your head stuck in your ass?

    So then continue with your blah, blah, blah, and eat sh*t.

    You, disgusting self-elected democratic people/institutions!!!

    Read More
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  30. Such a truthful portrait of reality ! The ruling elite is indeed massively corrupt, compromised, and controlled by dark forces. And the police state is already here. For most people, so far, in the form of massive collection of personal data and increasing number of mandatory regulations. But just one or two big false-flags away from progressing into something much worse.

    The thing is, no matter how thick the mental cages are, and how carefully they are maintained by the daily massive injections of “certified” truth (via MSM), along with neutralizing or compromising of “troublemakers”, the presence of multiple alternative sources in the age of Internet makes people to slip out of these cages one by one, and as the last events show – with acceleration.

    It means that there’s a fast approaching tipping point after which it’d be impossible for those in power both to keep a nice “civilized” face and to control the “cage-free” population. So, no matter how the next war will be called, it will be the war against the free Internet and free people. That’s probably why N. Korean leader has no fear to start one.

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  31. Art says:

    An aside:

    All government secrecy is a curse on mankind.

    Trump is releasing the JFK murder files to the public. Kudos!

    Let us hope he will follow up with a full 9/11 investigation.

    Think Peace — Art

    Read More
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  32. Ben10 says:

    Read More
    • Replies: @Rurik
    right at 1:47

    when he says 'we can't move on as a country'

    his butt hurt is so ruefully obvious, that I couldn't help notice a wry smile on my face

    that bitch spent millions on the war sow, and now all that mullah won't even wipe his butt hurt

    when I see ((guys)) like this raging their inner crybaby angst, I feel really, really good about President Trump

    MAGA bitches!
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  33. Ben10 says:

    Read More
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  34. Rurik says:
    @Miro23
    A great article with some excellent points:

    Putin’s dream of Greater Europe is the death knell for the unipolar world order. It means the economic center of the world will shift to Central Asia where abundant resources and cheap labor of the east will be linked to the technological advances and the Capital the of the west eliminating the need to trade in dollars or recycle profits into US debt. The US economy will slip into irreversible decline, and the global hegemon will steadily lose its grip on power. That’s why it is imperative for the US prevail in Ukraine– a critical land bridge connecting the two continents– and to topple Assad in Syria in order to control vital resources and pipeline corridors. Washington must be in a position where it can continue to force its trading partners to denominate their resources in dollars and recycle the proceeds into US Treasuries if it is to maintain its global primacy. The main problem is that Russia is blocking Uncle Sam’s path to success which is roiling the political establishment in Washington.
     
    American dominance is very much tied to the dollar's role as the world's reserve currency, and the rest of the world no longer want to fund this bankrupt, warlike state - particularly the Chinese.

    First, it confirms that the US did not want to see the jihadist extremists defeated by Russia. These mainly-Sunni militias served as Washington’s proxy-army conducting an ambitious regime change operation which coincided with US strategic ambitions.
     
    The CIA run US/Israeli/ISIS alliance.

    Second, Zakharova confirms that the western media is not an independent news gathering organization, but a propaganda organ for the foreign policy establishment who dictates what they can and can’t say.
     
    They are given the political line and they broadcast it.

    The loosening of rules governing the dissemination of domestic propaganda coupled with the extraordinary advances in surveillance technology, create the perfect conditions for the full implementation of an American police state. But what is more concerning, is that the primary levers of state power are no longer controlled by elected officials but by factions within the state whose interests do not coincide with those of the American people. That can only lead to trouble.
     
    At some point Americans are going to get a "War on Domestic Terror" cheered along by the media. More or less the arrest and incarceration of any opposition following the Soviet Bolshevik model.

    American dominance is very much tied to the dollar’s role as the world’s reserve currency, and the rest of the world no longer want to fund this bankrupt, warlike state – particularly the Chinese.

    indeed, there are many Americans like myself that pray the world will find a way to end the Federal Reserve Note as the world’s reserve currency.

    As long as this state of affairs persists, the Fiend will reign supreme.

    At some point Americans are going to get a “War on Domestic Terror” cheered along by the media. More or less the arrest and incarceration of any opposition following the Soviet Bolshevik model.

    under Hillary I would say that would have been a dead certainty

    Under Trump, I’m not so sure..

    as long as the American people are armed to the teeth, (and we are ; ), then I feel reasonably assured that a full-scale, gulag type of Soviet system is far off, false flag or no false flag, (so long as we have our guns)

    Read More
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  35. Mr. Anon says:
    @utu
    Again Mike Whitney does not get it. Though in the first part of the article I thought he would. He was almost getting there. The objective was to push new administration into the corner from which it could not improve relations with Russia as Trump indicated that he wanted to during the campaign. Convincing Americans in Russia's influence or Russia collusion with Trump was only a tool that would create pressure on Trump that together with the fear of paralysis of his administration and impeachment would push Trump into the corner from which the only thing he could do was to worsen relations with Russia. What American people believe or not is really secondary. With firing of Gen. Flynn Trump acted exactly as they wanted him to act. This was the beginning of downward slope.

    Anyway, the mission was accomplished and the relations with Russia are worse now than during Obama administration. Trump can concentrate on Iran in which he will be supported by all sides and factions including the media. Even Larry David will approve not only the zionist harpies like Pam Geller, Rita Katz and Ilana Mercer.

    Pamela Geller: Thank You, Larry David
    http://www.breitbart.com/big-hollywood/2017/10/19/pamela-geller-thank-larry-david/

    The objective was to push new administration into the corner from which it could not improve relations with Russia as Trump indicated that he wanted to during the campaign.

    Good point. That was probably one of the objectives (and from the point of view of the deep-state, perhaps the most important objective) of the “Russia hacked our democracy” narrative, in addition to the general deligitimization of the Trump administration.

    Read More
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  36. Art says:

    And, keep in mind, Washington’s Sunni proxies were not a division of the Pentagon; they were entirely a CIA confection: CIA recruited, CIA-armed, CIA-funded and CIA-trained.

    Clearly the CIA was making war on Syria. Is secret coercive covert action against sovereign nations Ok? Is it legal?

    When was the CIA designated a war making entity – what part of the constitution OK’s that? Isn’t the congress obliged by constitutional law to declare war? (These are NOT six month actions – they go on and on.)

    Are committees of six congressman and six senators, who meet in secret, just avoiding the grave constitutional questions of war? We the People cannot even interrogate these politicians. (These politicians make big money in the secrecy swamp when they leave office.)

    Syria is only one of many nations that the CIA is attacking – how many countries are we attacking with drones? Where is congress?

    Spying is one thing – covert action is another – covert is wrong – it goes against world order. Every year after 9/11 they say things are worse – give them more money more power and they will make things safe. That is BS!

    9/11 has opened the flood gates to the US government attacking at will, the various peoples of this Earth. That is NOT our prerogative.

    We are being exceptionally arrogant.

    Close the CIA – give the spying to the 16 other agencies.

    Think Peace — Art

    Read More
    • Replies: @Art

    Trump Unleashes CIA Kill Teams In Afghanistan

    http://dailycaller.com/2017/10/22/trump-unleashes-cia-kill-teams-in-afghanistan/

    >>> >>> >>>

    These CIA missions will reportedly include both paramilitary personnel of the CIA along with U.S. special operations forces detailed to the agency for specific missions. The use of special operations forces allows hunter killer teams to call in air support, if necessary, as they hunt Taliban bomb-makers across the country.
     
    The US Army is a subsidiary of the CIA – How does this happen?

    How is it that the CIA is so powerful in our government - that it makes war on the world with allmost ZERO control from congress?

    Think Peace --- Art
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  37. Rurik says:
    @Ben10
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yd6rjhLdu4w

    right at 1:47

    when he says ‘we can’t move on as a country’

    his butt hurt is so ruefully obvious, that I couldn’t help notice a wry smile on my face

    that bitch spent millions on the war sow, and now all that mullah won’t even wipe his butt hurt

    when I see ((guys)) like this raging their inner crybaby angst, I feel really, really good about President Trump

    MAGA bitches!

    Read More
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  38. Mr. Anon says:
    @jilles dykstra
    I am reading Howard Zinn, A Peoples History of the USA, 1492 to the Present.
    A sad story, how the USA always was a police state, where the two percent rich manipulated the 98% poor, to stay rich.
    When there were insurrections federal troops restored order.
    Also FDR put down strikes with troops.

    I am reading Howard Zinn, A Peoples History of the USA…

    A Peoples History of the USA? Which Peoples?

    Read More
    • Replies: @anarchyst
    Zinn is a communist internationalist who has been poisoning American public schoolchildren with his anti-American textbooks...
    , @jilles dykstra
    The common peoples, black, Irish, German, and so on, and so forth.
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  39. I am SAIS 70 so know the drill and the article is on point.

    Here is the dealio. Most reporters are dim and have no experience, and it is real easy to lead them by the nose with promises of better in the future.

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  40. Horace J says:
    @Grandpa Charlie

    "Zinn’s book is not, IMO, an honest attempt at writing history. It is conscious propaganda" -- Logan
     
    That's one way of putting it, Logan. I once had a dispute with a friend who believed, based on Zinn, that North Korea had not initiated the Korean War. I had merely detailed and vivid accounts told to me personally by eye witnesses - both civilian Koreans and American military (who were also quite critical of the American occupation and of the Rhee dictatorship). My friend later got back to me that he had investigated outside of Zinn and discovered, after exhaustive research, that Zinn was doubtlessly incorrect on the beginning of the Korean War ... but my friend also noted that in his introduction to his book, Zinn said that he wasn't actually trying to do anything but to present another side for Americans who had never been exposed to any history except that found in official American textbooks.

    I reckon that's conscious propaganda of a sort -- the sort that I see a lot of here at UR.

    Origins of the Korean war are quite complex. There is no simple answer. You may wan to consult the article at this link:

    http://original.antiwar.com/justin/2013/07/28/who-really-started-the-korean-war/

    And consult the links within. A rich and fascinating history awaits.

    See this for why the North Korean invasion, though alarming in D.C. was considered a god-send by many in Washington:

    https://www.shmoop.com/korean-war/politics.html

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  41. Cassidy says:

    Maybe its not prejudice that’s the difference between Dems and Repubs in that poll.

    A poll during the election last year stated that an overwhelming majority of Trump supporters said they did not believe ‘the media’.

    In many ways, the last election was split between those who believe CNN and the NYT, and those who’ve decided after Iraq’s WMDs, after being told the Enron was a great company, etc, etc, etc that CNN and the NYT and the rest were not to be believed.

    So, its no surprise that Brennan’s propaganda broadcast on channels like CNN and the NYT is having an effect on the fools who still believe the nonsense, while the people who’ve stopped believing and stopped watching and stopped reading all the lies then don’t tell pollsters that they believe the latest lies.

    People like Brennan use these MSM channels to control people with lies. Its an important development that polls show that people no longer believe these MSM channels and that the most recent lies from Brennan et al aren’t reaching that sizeable portion of the populace.

    Read More
    • Replies: @eD
    "In many ways, the last election was split between those who believe CNN and the NYT, and those who’ve decided after Iraq’s WMDs, after being told the Enron was a great company, etc, etc, etc that CNN and the NYT and the rest were not to be believed."

    This is a good insight.

    I stopped believing CNN and the NYT myself in 2003 precisely because of things like Enron and Iraq, which seems sensible after the "mainstream media" was caught red handed lying. But I know people who still read or watch both and believe what they write or broadcast. Its like we live in two separate universes.

    To be fair, its pretty much the same situation with me and friends who get their information from right-wing talk radio.
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  42. Scary, insightful and totally credible, Mr. Whitney.

    But please learn the difference between “reigned in” (sic) and the correct “reined in.”

    Sad to say, you are not the only commenter out there making this error. Their (sic) are many others. (I apologize if the Unz site “corrected” your correct spelling for the usage.)

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  43. WJ says:
    @Michael Kenny
    This author (and I suspect it's actually several authors) has a tendency to announce events as imminent and inevitable on an almost daily basis. For at least 14 years, he has been announcing the imminent and inevitable demise of the EU and the euro. Hasn't happened yet! Now, it's the imminent and inevitable victory of Vladimir Putin in Syria, and, needless to say, Ukraine (the main event). On past performance, that isn't going to happen either!
    Putin stopped talking about the “Lisbon to Vladivostok” free trade area long ago (the quote dates from February 2012). As a practical matter, it’s hard to see how he could force the EU Member States to sign up to such an arrangement, particularly in the light of his conduct in Ukraine, which contradicts the whole concept. In any event, even if it came into existence, it would be dominated by Germany and China since Russia is too far to the east to dominate Europe and too far to the north to dominate Asia. Equally, I doubt if China would accept its exclusion from such a zone since that runs counter to its “Silk Road” policy. That policy, indeed, is undercutting Putin in Central Asia inasmuch as, by building railways to non-Russian ports, it is breaking the Russian stranglehold on those countries’ trade and transport.
    To me, therefore, this kind of wide-ranging attack suggests panic among Putin's American supporters. There must be something really dirty in Russigate that hasn't yet come out to generate this level of panic.

    I’m not a Putin supporter or Putin “hater” but I do support what he has done in Syria. Contrary to your statement about not winning in Syria, that war is almost over with the rational, reasonable Assad as the victor instead of the insane ISIS/Al Qaeda alliance. Trump, despite his symbolic missile attack over 6 months ago,has done his part by cutting off aid to the the jihadi resistance to Assad.

    Regarding “Russiagate” as you put it, I assume you will be disappointed on January 1, 2021, when Trump is still in office, perhaps about to start his second term. I say perhaps because I am not convinced he will run again.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
    Assad "reasonable"? "Rational" in his own interest: maybe, but "reasonable": by what definition and criteria?
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  44. @WJ
    I'm not a Putin supporter or Putin "hater" but I do support what he has done in Syria. Contrary to your statement about not winning in Syria, that war is almost over with the rational, reasonable Assad as the victor instead of the insane ISIS/Al Qaeda alliance. Trump, despite his symbolic missile attack over 6 months ago,has done his part by cutting off aid to the the jihadi resistance to Assad.

    Regarding "Russiagate" as you put it, I assume you will be disappointed on January 1, 2021, when Trump is still in office, perhaps about to start his second term. I say perhaps because I am not convinced he will run again.

    Assad “reasonable”? “Rational” in his own interest: maybe, but “reasonable”: by what definition and criteria?

    Read More
    • Replies: @nsa
    Without Assad, your throat slitting Joohadi tools would have murdered all the Alawites, Druze, Christians, Shias, Kurds, Sufis, Doms, Yazidis, Assyrians, Armenians, and lots of secular Sunnis.
    , @NoseytheDuke
    I can fully understand just how difficult it must be for you living in Australia to even imagine, never mind comprehend, that elsewhere in the world there are leaders who actually govern in the interest of their nation and peoples.
    , @Thales the Milesian
    "by what definition and criteria?"

    Definetely not by yours!
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  45. There is an unconscious visceral level to the MSM’s assault on Russia. The Left is currently fragmented n can only come together n agree on its most basic impulses: hatred of whites n strong authoritarian males. This precludes attacking China altho, unlike Russia, China actually colluded with Americans n is ten times a threat to the US. But Russia is white, therefore already evil. Putin is a strong authoritarian ruler, so is also a target that the Left can unite its deep divisions around. The most basic enemy under PC mythology of course is Hitler n Nazi Germany. In the Left’s fantasy view of the world, Putin is identified with Hitler n Russia with Nazi Germany. Russia’s return to Orthodox Christianity, the equivalent of Nazism in the view of Jews in the MSM who still remember the Tsarist pogroms, justifies in their view this subliminal identification. The level of attacks on Russia n Putin in the MSM is a direct measure of the domination of the US MSM by left-wing Jews. This does not even address their tacit support by a Neocon dominated Congress.

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  46. nsa says:
    @Wizard of Oz
    Assad "reasonable"? "Rational" in his own interest: maybe, but "reasonable": by what definition and criteria?

    Without Assad, your throat slitting Joohadi tools would have murdered all the Alawites, Druze, Christians, Shias, Kurds, Sufis, Doms, Yazidis, Assyrians, Armenians, and lots of secular Sunnis.

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    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
    Sure that's rational self-interest at work. But I don't think my agreement with his choice of methods to deal with mad Islamists and others who might be really makes him reasonable. I think "reasonable" might have been easier to apply if he had decided to live as rich country gentleman and part-time pharmacist in England.....
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  47. eD says:
    @Cassidy
    Maybe its not prejudice that's the difference between Dems and Repubs in that poll.

    A poll during the election last year stated that an overwhelming majority of Trump supporters said they did not believe 'the media'.

    In many ways, the last election was split between those who believe CNN and the NYT, and those who've decided after Iraq's WMDs, after being told the Enron was a great company, etc, etc, etc that CNN and the NYT and the rest were not to be believed.

    So, its no surprise that Brennan's propaganda broadcast on channels like CNN and the NYT is having an effect on the fools who still believe the nonsense, while the people who've stopped believing and stopped watching and stopped reading all the lies then don't tell pollsters that they believe the latest lies.

    People like Brennan use these MSM channels to control people with lies. Its an important development that polls show that people no longer believe these MSM channels and that the most recent lies from Brennan et al aren't reaching that sizeable portion of the populace.

    “In many ways, the last election was split between those who believe CNN and the NYT, and those who’ve decided after Iraq’s WMDs, after being told the Enron was a great company, etc, etc, etc that CNN and the NYT and the rest were not to be believed.”

    This is a good insight.

    I stopped believing CNN and the NYT myself in 2003 precisely because of things like Enron and Iraq, which seems sensible after the “mainstream media” was caught red handed lying. But I know people who still read or watch both and believe what they write or broadcast. Its like we live in two separate universes.

    To be fair, its pretty much the same situation with me and friends who get their information from right-wing talk radio.

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  48. @nsa
    Without Assad, your throat slitting Joohadi tools would have murdered all the Alawites, Druze, Christians, Shias, Kurds, Sufis, Doms, Yazidis, Assyrians, Armenians, and lots of secular Sunnis.

    Sure that’s rational self-interest at work. But I don’t think my agreement with his choice of methods to deal with mad Islamists and others who might be really makes him reasonable. I think “reasonable” might have been easier to apply if he had decided to live as rich country gentleman and part-time pharmacist in England…..

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  49. @Wizard of Oz
    Assad "reasonable"? "Rational" in his own interest: maybe, but "reasonable": by what definition and criteria?

    I can fully understand just how difficult it must be for you living in Australia to even imagine, never mind comprehend, that elsewhere in the world there are leaders who actually govern in the interest of their nation and peoples.

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    • Agree: jacques sheete
    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
    That seems rather nonsequitous (or should it be non-sequatorial?). Is one to infer that you think Assad was or is governing in the interests of his "nation and peoples"? "Peoples" i.e. the plural would be appropriate to the Syrian ethnic mix perhaps. But it might be hard to do anything which all would agree was in theor ethnic group's interests.
    , @Wizard of Oz
    Why do you suggest that Australia is underendowed with politicians' desire to govrrn in the interests of Australians genrrally. I think Shorten's careerist ambition stinks but the problem wiyh the two Liberal Rhodes Scholars seems to be surprising incompetence. Otherwise I would have thought the Maslow Hierarchy of Needs explains them pretty well, especially Turnbull who already had huge success outside politics.
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  50. @NoseytheDuke
    I can fully understand just how difficult it must be for you living in Australia to even imagine, never mind comprehend, that elsewhere in the world there are leaders who actually govern in the interest of their nation and peoples.

    That seems rather nonsequitous (or should it be non-sequatorial?). Is one to infer that you think Assad was or is governing in the interests of his “nation and peoples”? “Peoples” i.e. the plural would be appropriate to the Syrian ethnic mix perhaps. But it might be hard to do anything which all would agree was in theor ethnic group’s interests.

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    • Replies: @Anon
    Thank you for your excellent answer to the closeted zionist WofO
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  51. @jilles dykstra
    I am reading Howard Zinn, A Peoples History of the USA, 1492 to the Present.
    A sad story, how the USA always was a police state, where the two percent rich manipulated the 98% poor, to stay rich.
    When there were insurrections federal troops restored order.
    Also FDR put down strikes with troops.

    I am reading Howard Zinn, A Peoples History of the USA…

    It’s an OK introduction to alternative narratives, but what he leaves out is as important as what he emphasizes. However, you seem to be enough of a reader that you don’t need to be reminded to avoid taking his book as “gospel.”

    If you have not discovered the likes of Mencken, A. J. Nock, and Harry Elmer Barnes and you are curious about American history, may I suggest some 0f their writing available free at another UNZ site…

    http://www.unz.org/Pub/

    The sheer volume of material there is astounding and most of it seems extremely worthwhile.

    Murray Rothbard is also superb and can be found here.:

    https://mises.org/

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    • Replies: @jilles dykstra
    My books on USA history I suppose cannot be listed here, the list would take too much space.
    What Zinn writes is therefore not unfamiliar to me, yet his summing up on how two percent or so of the USA population succed(ed) in being (very) rich, and keep the 98% ignorant and more or less poor, is impressive.
    I often reminded USA writers on fora that nothing changed in the USA since the second half of the 19th century, I now must write 'nothing changed in USA society ever, since the whites began to arrive'.
    I more and more realise how extraordinary it was that the Netherlands until 2000 or so had governments interested in common people.
    Already maybe ten years ago a Russian woman, refugee from Moldavia, told me in broken Dutch, our grandchildren met where some playthings for children were, how extraordinary the Dutch government was.
    Alas no more, under the EU yoke.
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  52. @NoseytheDuke
    I can fully understand just how difficult it must be for you living in Australia to even imagine, never mind comprehend, that elsewhere in the world there are leaders who actually govern in the interest of their nation and peoples.

    Why do you suggest that Australia is underendowed with politicians’ desire to govrrn in the interests of Australians genrrally. I think Shorten’s careerist ambition stinks but the problem wiyh the two Liberal Rhodes Scholars seems to be surprising incompetence. Otherwise I would have thought the Maslow Hierarchy of Needs explains them pretty well, especially Turnbull who already had huge success outside politics.

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  53. @Michael Kenny
    This author (and I suspect it's actually several authors) has a tendency to announce events as imminent and inevitable on an almost daily basis. For at least 14 years, he has been announcing the imminent and inevitable demise of the EU and the euro. Hasn't happened yet! Now, it's the imminent and inevitable victory of Vladimir Putin in Syria, and, needless to say, Ukraine (the main event). On past performance, that isn't going to happen either!
    Putin stopped talking about the “Lisbon to Vladivostok” free trade area long ago (the quote dates from February 2012). As a practical matter, it’s hard to see how he could force the EU Member States to sign up to such an arrangement, particularly in the light of his conduct in Ukraine, which contradicts the whole concept. In any event, even if it came into existence, it would be dominated by Germany and China since Russia is too far to the east to dominate Europe and too far to the north to dominate Asia. Equally, I doubt if China would accept its exclusion from such a zone since that runs counter to its “Silk Road” policy. That policy, indeed, is undercutting Putin in Central Asia inasmuch as, by building railways to non-Russian ports, it is breaking the Russian stranglehold on those countries’ trade and transport.
    To me, therefore, this kind of wide-ranging attack suggests panic among Putin's American supporters. There must be something really dirty in Russigate that hasn't yet come out to generate this level of panic.

    There must be something really dirty in Russigate that hasn’t yet come out to generate this level of panic.

    Yeh, and Whitney did a fine job of exposing it; and in the first few paragraphs no less. In case you missed it, the “dirt” is that our so called “protectors” are FoS as always.

    Screw the CIA and the rest of the sickening bureaucracy.

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  54. @TG
    "The absence of evidence suggests that Russia hacking narrative is a sloppy and unprofessional disinformation campaign that was hastily slapped together by over confident Intelligence officials who believed that saturating the public airwaves with one absurd story after another would achieve the desired result..."

    But it DID achieve the desired result! Trump folded under the pressure, and went full out neoliberal. Starting with his missile attack on Syria, he is now OK with spending trillions fighting pointless endless foreign wars on the other side of the world.

    I think maybe half the US population does believe the Russian hacking thing, but that's not really the issue. I think that the pre-Syrian attack media blitz was more a statement of brute power to Trump: WE are in charge here, and WE can take you down and impeach you, and facts don't matter!

    Sometimes propaganda is about persuading people. And sometimes, I think, it is about intimidating them.

    Sometimes propaganda is about persuading people. And sometimes, I think, it is about intimidating them.

    It’s about controlling us. Sometimes through persuasion (very difficult), but usually through fear (much easier).

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  55. @Logan
    Most of that group became ardently pro-Sunni, and most of the pro-Sunni ones eventually coalescing around promotion of the House of Saud, which means being pro-Wahhabi and permanently desirous of killing or enslaving virtually all Shiite Mohammedans.

    Thanks for the laugh. During the 19th century, the Sauds were toothless, dirt-poor hicks from the deep desert of zero importance on the world stage.

    The Brits were not Saudi proponents, in fact promoting the Husseins of Hejaz, the guys Lawrence of Arabia worked with. The Husseins, the Sharifs of Mecca and rulers of Hejaz, were the hereditary enemies of the Sauds of Nejd.

    After WWI, the Brits installed Husseins as rulers of both Transjordan and Iraq, which with the Hejaz meant the Sauds were pretty much surrounded. The Sauds conquered the Hejaz in 1924, despite lukewarm British support for the Hejaz.

    Nobody in the world cared much about the Saudis one way or another until massive oil fields were discovered, by Americans not Brits, starting in 1938. There was no reason they should. Prior to that Saudi prominence in world affairs was about equal to that of Chad today, and for much the same reason. Chad (and Saudi Arabia) had nothing anybody else wanted.

    Nobody in the world cared much about the Saudis one way or another until massive oil fields were discovered, by Americans not Brits, starting in 1938. There was no reason they should.

    Your comment, while technically true (The Kingdom of Saudi Arabia was founded in 1932 by Ibn Saud) , seems a bit misleading vis a vis the importance of oil in the area.

    Oil on the Arabian Peninsula was discovered as early as 1908, but consideration of the area as a likely source of hydrocarbons didn’t really take off until a 1932 oil discovery in neighboring Bahrain. The first significant Saudi Arabian discovery was at Dammam well no 7 on March 4, 1938.

    https://info.drillinginfo.com/saudi-arabia-oil-need-know/

    Worthwhile read.:

    Oil Imperialism The International Struggle for Petroleum

    Louis Fischer
    Hyperion Press, 1926

    As things have turned out, it is an odd coincidence how so many of these places that have iron or coal or oil in them seem to represent a well-understood war-aim.

    - A J Nock, THE MYTH OF A GUILTY NATION, Page 29 1922

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  56. Anon says: • Disclaimer
    @Grandpa Charlie

    "Brennan had a strong motive to strike back at Moscow. He had “a dog in the fight”, and his dog lost. And since he couldn’t win on the battlefield, his only choice was to launch an asymmetrical attack via the media. Isn’t this where the Russia hacking idea originated?" -- Whitney
     
    The pity of it is that many Americans now find Putin more credible than any American president! In such a mishmash, Whitney has cut through the identity politics and the personality cults to get almost to the root -- where it started in 2013 -- the real issue that no government wants citizens to recognize or understand, the issue of WMDs -- in this case, chemical warfare. Here's the story, told from the official USA side , complete with anti-Russian headline that hardly represents the story itself:

    https://tcf.org/content/report/red-line-redux-putin-tore-obamas-2013-syria-deal/

    Forget about official USA bias in this account by The Century Foundation, the history is accurate enough that we easily see that there is no consensus on any of it. For one brief moment - long enough that some horrible WMDs were destroyed - Russia and USA seemed to act sensibly together ... and then ... back to the never-ending fight. It reminds of a Tom-and-Jerry cartoon, where the action suddenly freezes due to some distraction, and then the cat and the mouse resume where they left off.

    What is the best that we can hope for? That somehow we can untangle the Gordian knot of she-said-he-said -- about supposed Russian hacking in election 2016 (?) -- before one Last Superpower or another resorts to the sword of nuclear Armageddon?

    How about this as our goal -- maybe, just maybe, we can somehow return to pre-9-11 levels of cooperation between USA and Russia.

    Without having to relive 9-11 either metaphorically or virtually?

    A worthy repost from the comment section of: “Above All” – The Junta Expands Its Claim To Power” http://www.moonofalabama.org/2017/10/above-all-the-junta-expands-its-claim-to-power.html#c6a00d8341c640e53ef01bb09cfaf4b970d

    Posted by Camillus O’Byrne:
    “… These clowns call themselves “General” and we are supposed to think that puts them in the same class as a Wellington or a Caesar or Napoleon? They were all first class bastards, ruthless, but fine Generals. Tough, bold, audacious leaders of men and brilliant strategists, who took risks, including with their own lives. Hell, the Prussian officer training system turned out Quartermasters that were better field Generals than these American frauds.
    As I have said in another thread, the US has none of the martial virtues. Not as a people, not as military institutions, not as individual soldiers or sailors (their airmen are obviously cowards or psychopaths so not necessary even to consider in this context). Virtues such as steadfastness in adversity, discipline when under fire, self-sacrifice for comrades and the cause. Not saying anything about the morality of any particular cause here, just what makes a professional army. To compare the US military with Rome’s Legions, say, is laughable. The biggest difference between these American whackers is that in real armies individuals are expected to be able to contend with a worthy adversary. To take risks. To fight when it is HARD to fight. Even Rome’s patricians understood that every now and then they had to expose themselves to danger if they were to have any honour, as Crassus, richest of them all, found out very dramatically when he met his end at the head of the Syrian Legions. (Defeated by the Iranians! – they’ve seen ‘em all come and go). Windbags like Kelly wouldn’t know what honour is.
    The US has NEVER fought an adversary on anything like equal terms. They preen themselves about WW2. I call BS. They waited until the Soviets had broken the back of the most fearsome war machine in history, the Wehrmacht and then faced teenagers and old men in France. On the occasions when they did face professional German troops they had their whiney arses kicked. As for the Pacific war, they stood off island after island and rained a stupendous amount of naval shells and bombs on the Japanese garrisons to the point where they were insane with the cacophany and pure physical terror to turn your bowels to water, before setting foot on them, while the aerial destruction of Japanese cities is one of the great atrocities in history, disgraceful and completely without honour. I suspect a disproportionate number of US military casualties are due to being run over by a forklift, training accidents, friendly fire, syphilis or fragging of their own. The qualities the US military (they don’t deserve the epithet “army”) exemplifies are cowardice, incompetence, viciousness and wanton destructiveness….”

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    • Replies: @Grandpa Charlie
    Well, Anon, that is a cute diatribe that you have reposted from out of Moon of Alabama's comments. All I can say is that the content is more emotional than rational, or as Aristotle would have it: more argument from pathos than from logos.

    My idea of a general officer worth following is Maxwell D. Taylor. Commanding the 101st Airborne Division, he jumped with the troops into Normandy! I believe that Taylor is never mentioned by Eisenhower in the latter's Crusade in Europe .... or elsewhere .... because Eisenhower was jealous of a general who was -- and repeatedly proved himself -- a real soldier. That would be as distinguished from a great politician such as Eisenhower.

    , @Alden
    Were Wellington and Napoleon really all that great? Or did their biographers just claim they were great. Ever heard of the bulls of Hougemont Farm who routed the French at Waterloo? No general could have anticipated that. Some of the French were holed up at Hougemont Farm. The cannons and other artillery set the barn on fire and a couple dozen scorched and angry bulls got out and the French had to flee thus clearing the way for the British Prussian etc etc army to win Napoleon's last battle.

    America did win the war against Japan all by ourselves without help from the soviets. But we haven't won a war since. So maybe you're right. I live near a major VA complex. Everyone who works there seems to be either black or if a Dr some dot Indian with their fake degrees.

    I don't respect the military much because it seems to be a minority , gay, single mom full employment program. Can't see why any White would want to join.
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  57. Anon says: • Disclaimer
    @Michael Kenny
    This author (and I suspect it's actually several authors) has a tendency to announce events as imminent and inevitable on an almost daily basis. For at least 14 years, he has been announcing the imminent and inevitable demise of the EU and the euro. Hasn't happened yet! Now, it's the imminent and inevitable victory of Vladimir Putin in Syria, and, needless to say, Ukraine (the main event). On past performance, that isn't going to happen either!
    Putin stopped talking about the “Lisbon to Vladivostok” free trade area long ago (the quote dates from February 2012). As a practical matter, it’s hard to see how he could force the EU Member States to sign up to such an arrangement, particularly in the light of his conduct in Ukraine, which contradicts the whole concept. In any event, even if it came into existence, it would be dominated by Germany and China since Russia is too far to the east to dominate Europe and too far to the north to dominate Asia. Equally, I doubt if China would accept its exclusion from such a zone since that runs counter to its “Silk Road” policy. That policy, indeed, is undercutting Putin in Central Asia inasmuch as, by building railways to non-Russian ports, it is breaking the Russian stranglehold on those countries’ trade and transport.
    To me, therefore, this kind of wide-ranging attack suggests panic among Putin's American supporters. There must be something really dirty in Russigate that hasn't yet come out to generate this level of panic.

    “There must be something really dirty in Russigate…” — Clintons’ uranium deal? $140 million is a nice gesheft.

    Here is your kaganists’ vision for Ukraine:” Bryan McDonald —20,000 Nazis March in Kiev. The Western Media Somehow Fails to Notice.” http://mikenormaneconomics.blogspot.com/2017/10/bryan-mcdonald-20000-nazis-march-in.html “…we had a major Nazi gathering in a European capital and the only English language sources that show up in a Google News search are from RT, Sputnik, The Nation and a half-hearted seven-sentence ‘report’ by US state broadcaster RFE/RL, which meekly describes them as mere ‘nationalists.’ That means there is nothing from CNN, the Guardian, the New York Times, Washington Post or the BBC, among the usual suspects who make every little protest in Russia headline news….
    “Neo-Nazis Organize Massive Torchlit March Through Kiev” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FlsmLws0Ohk
    “Neo-Nazis stage hateful torch-lit march – MSM says nothing. They shouted “death to Russians” while praising local Nazi collaborators as well as Adolf Hitler.” http://theduran.com/neo-nazis-stage-hateful-torch-lit-march-msm-says-nothing/

    Not a peep from ADL, by the way. Hey, Nuland-Kagan and entire Atlantic Council, great job of supporting and promoting the Nazi legacy.

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  58. Anon says: • Disclaimer
    @Wizard of Oz
    That seems rather nonsequitous (or should it be non-sequatorial?). Is one to infer that you think Assad was or is governing in the interests of his "nation and peoples"? "Peoples" i.e. the plural would be appropriate to the Syrian ethnic mix perhaps. But it might be hard to do anything which all would agree was in theor ethnic group's interests.

    Thank you for your excellent answer to the closeted zionist WofO

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  59. But what is more concerning, is that the primary levers of state power are no longer controlled by elected officials but by factions within the state whose interests do not coincide with those of the American people.

    Cheezuss, Mike, when are smart people going to understand that the above is not a bug, but a feature?

    Even a low IQ, dumb goy such as myself can see it and the anti federalists even predicted it ~225 years ago!

    It was a common saying among many sensible men in Great Britain and Ireland, in the time of the war, that they doubted whether the great men of America, who had taken an active part in favor of independence, were influenced by pure patriotism: that it was not the love of their country they had so much at heart, as their own private interest; that a thirst after dominion and power, and not to protect the oppressed from the oppressor, was the great operative principle that induced these men to oppose Britain so strenuously…

    But alas! the truth of the sentiment is now indisputably confirmed; facts are stubborn things, and these set the matter beyond controversy. The new constitution, and the conduct of its despotic advocates, shew that these men’s doubts were really well founded. Unparalleled duplicity! that men should oppose tyranny under a pretence of patriotism, that they might themselves become the tyrants. How does such villainy disgrace human nature! Ah, my fellow-citizens, you have been strangely deceived indeed; when the wealthy of your own country assisted you to expel the foreign tyrant, only with a view to substitute themselves in his stead.

    -Philadelphiensis III, December 05, 1787

    http://teachingamericanhistory.org/library/document/philadelphiensis-iii/

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    • Replies: @Alden
    " their own private interest; that a thirst after dominion and power, and not to protect the oppressed from the oppressor, was the great operative principle that induced these men to oppose Britain so strenuously…"

    I figured that out in 8th grade when we came to a page or two about the whiskey rebellion. So I found a couple books at home about the Whiskey rebellion and concluded that the wealthy elite founders borrowed all that money from France and arranged for the frontiersmen to pay off that 13 billion loan.



    My Daddy made whiskey
    Grandpappy did too.
    We ain't paid no whiskey tax
    Since 1792

    That was when I became a cynic.
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  60. anarchyst says:
    @Mr. Anon

    I am reading Howard Zinn, A Peoples History of the USA...
     
    A Peoples History of the USA? Which Peoples?

    Zinn is a communist internationalist who has been poisoning American public schoolchildren with his anti-American textbooks…

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    • Replies: @jilles dykstra
    His book I'm reading certainly did not please those in power in the USA, alas I suppose he's telling the truth.
    Read, for example, the diaries of Harold L Ickes, three volumes.
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  61. Zinn is a communist internationalist who has been poisoning American public schoolchildren with his anti-American textbooks…

    It would be interesting to evaluate Zinn’s position on FDR’s unconditional support for Stalin.

    It’s been a long time since I’ve read any Zinn, and I certainly don’t remember that he even addressed it. Perhaps you know and could enlighten the rest of us.

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  62. anon says: • Disclaimer
    @utu
    Again Mike Whitney does not get it. Though in the first part of the article I thought he would. He was almost getting there. The objective was to push new administration into the corner from which it could not improve relations with Russia as Trump indicated that he wanted to during the campaign. Convincing Americans in Russia's influence or Russia collusion with Trump was only a tool that would create pressure on Trump that together with the fear of paralysis of his administration and impeachment would push Trump into the corner from which the only thing he could do was to worsen relations with Russia. What American people believe or not is really secondary. With firing of Gen. Flynn Trump acted exactly as they wanted him to act. This was the beginning of downward slope.

    Anyway, the mission was accomplished and the relations with Russia are worse now than during Obama administration. Trump can concentrate on Iran in which he will be supported by all sides and factions including the media. Even Larry David will approve not only the zionist harpies like Pam Geller, Rita Katz and Ilana Mercer.

    Pamela Geller: Thank You, Larry David
    http://www.breitbart.com/big-hollywood/2017/10/19/pamela-geller-thank-larry-david/

    Suppose nothing changes ,everything stays same – the losses of American lives, shock of 2008 economic depression, current intelligence on Iraqi WMD opioid epidemic, and inglorious war victories or pure losses ,resurging China, Crimea within Russian borders- and we transport Bannon/Flkynn to pre 2003 March world, he would support war against Iraq he would be cheerleading it , he would be conspiring against those opposing the IRAQ WAR while lambasting previous administrations for Gulf war, Kosovo and Balkan war .

    He has exactly recreated the situation or confirmed what he would have done in 2003 by supporting aggressive anti Iran agenda. He supports war against Iran . One will question how that fits with his anti interventionist stances How that comports with his anti war theories . It doesn’t . It confirms him to be a psycho It confirms him to be nothing but an opportunist who uses anti war sentiment of Trump base . He wants himself to be exploiting ,his circle to be in charge , his profit to be ascertained and not some “kisisnger elite”
    He figured out that with Russia not threatened by any regime change, he could get Russia on his side or at least he could get a Russia that would be working with him strategically .To Bannon/Flynn hope is at least Russia would ignore and condone the direction- or they could divvy up the bonanza resulting from foreign intervention . Flynn/B annon’s Russian love stems from this rotten philosophy .

    You see ,what he is trying now. He is positioning himself as strategist , as american patriot, as isolationist as helming at “America 1st ” bandwagon who opposes unnecessary wars .

    But he is a Pseudo

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    • Replies: @eD
    There is a good point here.

    While both ideas are and were nuts, there are perfectly rational reasons to want to invade Iraq and not invade Iran. Compared to Iran, Iraq is less populated, less well run, less defensible, the Baathist regime was nastier (so removing Hussein and the Tikrit gang woudl be a good in itself), violated internationa norms more (chemical weapons against the Kurds), and was even more anti-Israeli. Plus Iraq was governed as a colony by the Turks and invaded successfully twice by the British, so we knew that it could be done. None of these considerations apply to Iran.

    So if you want an sort of puppet state for the US in the Middle East, I could see why you could pick Iraq and not Iran.

    Opposing the invasion of Iraq but advocating an aggressive posture against Iran makes absolutely no sense at all. Though its a bad idea, wanting to invade Iraq and not Iran makes some sense. So does making Iraq your ally against Iran. And wanting to attack both countries is consistent. As does not wanting to attack either. But there is no way this crown wanted to attack Iran and leave Iraq alone unless they were insane.
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  63. hyperbola says:
    @Anon
    I distrust economic explanations because there are usually stronger forces in play, forces we are skittish about mentioning. America's interest, driven by AIPAC and the neocon policy brains trust, is less in the world than in the middle east and eastern Europe, two areas where Jews and nationalists have long engaged in bloody conflict. The interest in North Korea is that it could sell weapons to Iran. Writing in 1920 Belloc speaks of the Jewish hatred for Russia. You could add the Jewish hatred for Ukraine, Poland, Lithuania, and other eastern countries where Jews and Christians have historically had an unpleasant relationship. Jews want to see a politically correct united Europe where nationalism and religion will be extinguished by laws against hate speech and cultural re-education. They much preferred the Slavic nations under Communism. They bent over backwards to make excuses for Stalin and his successors. America wants to see Jewish oligarchs and their pet 'reformers' e.g. Garry Kasparov in charge of Russia. In the middle east they want endless war until all threats to Israel have been removed. While there are multiple factors at work, e.g. Hillary's wanting an excuse for losing, the effort of Jews to master their traditional Christian and Muslim enemies is probably the most powerful and simultaneously the one we can't discuss openly -- a perilous state of affairs.

    There are many things we are forbidden to discuss openly. Such as how Stalin put an end to the biggest genocide of the 20th century in Europe (killing at least four-times moe people than adolf). Let the Israelis tell you about the sect that carried out that genocide.

    Stalin’s Jews
    We mustn’t forget that some of greatest murderers of modern times were Jewish

    https://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3342999,00.html

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    • Replies: @jilles dykstra
    His book I'm reading certainly did not please those in power in the USA, alas I suppose he's telling the truth.
    Read, for example, the diaries of Harold L Ickes, three volumes.
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  64. @Wizard of Oz
    Assad "reasonable"? "Rational" in his own interest: maybe, but "reasonable": by what definition and criteria?

    “by what definition and criteria?”

    Definetely not by yours!

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    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
    Please elaborate and clarify. Do you not think that when you call a person "reasonable" it would imply to most people that you were probably suggesting, inter alia, that the person's words and actions tended to be moderate and restrained , without excess or unnecessary violence?
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  65. @jacques sheete

    I am reading Howard Zinn, A Peoples History of the USA...
     
    It's an OK introduction to alternative narratives, but what he leaves out is as important as what he emphasizes. However, you seem to be enough of a reader that you don't need to be reminded to avoid taking his book as "gospel."

    If you have not discovered the likes of Mencken, A. J. Nock, and Harry Elmer Barnes and you are curious about American history, may I suggest some 0f their writing available free at another UNZ site...

    http://www.unz.org/Pub/

    The sheer volume of material there is astounding and most of it seems extremely worthwhile.

    Murray Rothbard is also superb and can be found here.:

    https://mises.org/

    My books on USA history I suppose cannot be listed here, the list would take too much space.
    What Zinn writes is therefore not unfamiliar to me, yet his summing up on how two percent or so of the USA population succed(ed) in being (very) rich, and keep the 98% ignorant and more or less poor, is impressive.
    I often reminded USA writers on fora that nothing changed in the USA since the second half of the 19th century, I now must write ‘nothing changed in USA society ever, since the whites began to arrive’.
    I more and more realise how extraordinary it was that the Netherlands until 2000 or so had governments interested in common people.
    Already maybe ten years ago a Russian woman, refugee from Moldavia, told me in broken Dutch, our grandchildren met where some playthings for children were, how extraordinary the Dutch government was.
    Alas no more, under the EU yoke.

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  66. @anarchyst
    Zinn is a communist internationalist who has been poisoning American public schoolchildren with his anti-American textbooks...

    His book I’m reading certainly did not please those in power in the USA, alas I suppose he’s telling the truth.
    Read, for example, the diaries of Harold L Ickes, three volumes.

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  67. @hyperbola
    There are many things we are forbidden to discuss openly. Such as how Stalin put an end to the biggest genocide of the 20th century in Europe (killing at least four-times moe people than adolf). Let the Israelis tell you about the sect that carried out that genocide.

    Stalin's Jews
    We mustn't forget that some of greatest murderers of modern times were Jewish
    https://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3342999,00.html

    His book I’m reading certainly did not please those in power in the USA, alas I suppose he’s telling the truth.
    Read, for example, the diaries of Harold L Ickes, three volumes.

    Read More
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  68. @Mr. Anon

    I am reading Howard Zinn, A Peoples History of the USA...
     
    A Peoples History of the USA? Which Peoples?

    The common peoples, black, Irish, German, and so on, and so forth.

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  69. @anon
    OK.

    The only part that is absurd is that Russia posed a bona fide threat to the US. I'm fine with the idea that he ruined Brennen's plans in Syria. But thats just ego... we shouldn't have been there anyway.

    No one really cares about Ukraine. And the European/Russian trade zone? No one cares. The Eurozone has its hands full with Greece and the rest of the old EU. I have a feeling they have already gone way too far and are more likely to shrink than expand in any meaningful way

    The one thing I am not positive about. If the elite really believe that Russia is a threat, then Americans have done psych ops on themselves.

    The US was only interested in Ukraine because it was there. Next in line on a map. The rather shocking disinterest in investing money -- on both sides -- is inexplicable if it was really important. Most of it would be a waste -- but still. The US stupidly spent $5 billion on something -- getting duped by politicians and got theoretical regime change, but it was hell to pry even $1 billion for real economic aid.

    A son in law and a son of Biden, and Kerry, hope I still have the names right, got lucrative jobs in now rebel held E Ukraine, where the oil, gas and other minerals are.

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  70. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer

    Israel and their zio control of US/UK government continue to wage endless wars in the middle east. Bless mr Putin for putting an end to the Syrian conflict. I beg Russia will be strong enough to resist ZOG , the US is basically lost. People refuse to listen or even acknowledge the fact that jews are in full control of our government.

    ZOG wants war with Iran and North Korea. Russia should form some sort of coalition to put a stop to this evil force and never ending aggression by ISRAEL in the middle east.

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  71. Every two or three pages there is a reference.
    Moreover, it does not tell me much that is new to me, what is impressive is how nothing changed in the USA since whites began to arrive there.
    I happen to know how FDR used troops te break strikes, I happen to know how Rockefeller got rich, I happen to know how Theodore Roosevelt loved war.
    I did read a detailed account of the Sand Creek Massacre, and how the buffaloes were deliberately exterminated in a few years.
    And the three volumes of the diaries of Harold L Ickes tell the same story as Zinn.
    I already did have Apthekers book on slave revolts, and Baruch’s bragging on how he performed his tricks on Wall Street.
    And I have
    Edward H. Spicer, ‘Cycles of Conquest, The Impact of Spain, Mexico, and the United States of the Southwest’, 1533 – 1960′, Tucson, 1962, 1970
    and
    John T. Flynn, ´The Roosevelt Myth, A critical account of the New Deal and its creator’, New York 1948, 1949
    and
    Larry G. Gerber, ´The Limits of Liberalism, Josephus Daniels, Henry Stimson, Bernard Baruch, Donald Richberg, Felix Frankfurter and the Development of the Modern American Political Economy’, New York, London, 1984

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    • Replies: @Alden
    "I happen to know how FDR used troops to break strikes,"

    It wasn't a strike or strikes. It was one huge demonstration by WW1 veterans who wanted early disbursement of their bonus/pension. That was one incident and it was not a strike.

    Some counties in the coal country of the upper south used local police to break strikes. But FDR used them only once for the WW1 veterans bonus march it was called.

    You are much too intelligent to believe Howard Zinn. But then you still bear a grudge against King Phillip for trying to put down a rebellion in one of his many pathetic little provinces 470 years ago.
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  72. hyperbola says:
    @Grandpa Charlie

    "Brennan had a strong motive to strike back at Moscow. He had “a dog in the fight”, and his dog lost. And since he couldn’t win on the battlefield, his only choice was to launch an asymmetrical attack via the media. Isn’t this where the Russia hacking idea originated?" -- Whitney
     
    The pity of it is that many Americans now find Putin more credible than any American president! In such a mishmash, Whitney has cut through the identity politics and the personality cults to get almost to the root -- where it started in 2013 -- the real issue that no government wants citizens to recognize or understand, the issue of WMDs -- in this case, chemical warfare. Here's the story, told from the official USA side , complete with anti-Russian headline that hardly represents the story itself:

    https://tcf.org/content/report/red-line-redux-putin-tore-obamas-2013-syria-deal/

    Forget about official USA bias in this account by The Century Foundation, the history is accurate enough that we easily see that there is no consensus on any of it. For one brief moment - long enough that some horrible WMDs were destroyed - Russia and USA seemed to act sensibly together ... and then ... back to the never-ending fight. It reminds of a Tom-and-Jerry cartoon, where the action suddenly freezes due to some distraction, and then the cat and the mouse resume where they left off.

    What is the best that we can hope for? That somehow we can untangle the Gordian knot of she-said-he-said -- about supposed Russian hacking in election 2016 (?) -- before one Last Superpower or another resorts to the sword of nuclear Armageddon?

    How about this as our goal -- maybe, just maybe, we can somehow return to pre-9-11 levels of cooperation between USA and Russia.

    Without having to relive 9-11 either metaphorically or virtually?

    Aaaaaaggghhhh!

    Forget about official USA bias in this account by The Century Foundation…..

    This is NOT USA bias. The Century Foundation has become just another of the zionist propaganda organizations with connections all the way back to Edward Bernays in the generation of propaganda for gullible Americans. That the Century Foundation is still publishing such assertions is shameful.

    Whose sarin?

    https://www.lrb.co.uk/v35/n24/seymour-m-hersh/whose-sarin

    Trump‘s Red Line

    https://www.welt.de/politik/ausland/article165905578/Trump-s-Red-Line.html

    The real issue is NOT WMDs. The real issue is control of American foreign policy by a racist-supremacist, mideast sect.

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    • Replies: @Grandpa Charlie
    hyperbola:

    We have a communication problem: my purpose in using "official USA bias" was to signal that I do not consider the Century Foundation report to be an unbiased report, I was NOT endorsing the Century Foundation, I thought that was clear ... but somehow you managed to take my meaning opposite to what I intended. To be clear., if I say something is aligned with "official USA" propaganda, that doesn't mean that it aligns with the actual interests of the USA or of the American people. The reason I used the TCF link was that it came up on Google and could be used as a source for history of the brief Putin-Obama successful collaboration to destroy a stock of chemical weapons. My purpose was to suggest that history shows that USA and Russia have made progress toward a workable weapons control regime in the past (as recently as 2013) ... so it should be worth trying to return to that collaboration in the present or the future. I think that's something worth keeping in mind -- especially now that Trump has joined the anti-Russia crowd.

    From hyperbola's post:

    Whose sarin?

    https://www.lrb.co.uk/v35/n24/seymour-m-hersh/whose-sarin

    Trump‘s Red Line

    https://www.welt.de/politik/ausland/article165905578/Trump-s-Red-Line.html
     
    Yes! Two excellent links. Thank you.

    More from hyperbola:

    "The real issue is NOT WMDs. The real issue is control of American foreign policy by a racist-supremacist, mideast sect."
     
    Put it this way: the road leads toward Russia-USA cooperation, to address the issue of WMDs: the obstruction in the road is control of USA foreign/military policy by the Neocon faction in Washington ... which is, to be sure, beholden to " a racist-supremacist, mideast sect."

    I hope I have cleared up the miscommunication problem. "My bad." Thank you for your comment.
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  73. @Thales the Milesian
    "by what definition and criteria?"

    Definetely not by yours!

    Please elaborate and clarify. Do you not think that when you call a person “reasonable” it would imply to most people that you were probably suggesting, inter alia, that the person’s words and actions tended to be moderate and restrained , without excess or unnecessary violence?

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    • Replies: @Thales the Milesian
    WoO:

    "By what criteria...:"

    What is hateful to you do not do to others. This is THE criterion.

    Your country is killing people in distant lands, people who did you no harm and you do not even know they exist.

    I am sure you and your country consider yourselves "reasonable" and "rationaL".

    " ... the plank in your eye..."
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  74. Art says:
    @Art
    And, keep in mind, Washington’s Sunni proxies were not a division of the Pentagon; they were entirely a CIA confection: CIA recruited, CIA-armed, CIA-funded and CIA-trained.

    Clearly the CIA was making war on Syria. Is secret coercive covert action against sovereign nations Ok? Is it legal?

    When was the CIA designated a war making entity – what part of the constitution OK’s that? Isn’t the congress obliged by constitutional law to declare war? (These are NOT six month actions - they go on and on.)

    Are committees of six congressman and six senators, who meet in secret, just avoiding the grave constitutional questions of war? We the People cannot even interrogate these politicians. (These politicians make big money in the secrecy swamp when they leave office.)

    Syria is only one of many nations that the CIA is attacking – how many countries are we attacking with drones? Where is congress?

    Spying is one thing – covert action is another – covert is wrong – it goes against world order. Every year after 9/11 they say things are worse – give them more money more power and they will make things safe. That is BS!

    9/11 has opened the flood gates to the US government attacking at will, the various peoples of this Earth. That is NOT our prerogative.

    We are being exceptionally arrogant.

    Close the CIA – give the spying to the 16 other agencies.

    Think Peace --- Art

    Trump Unleashes CIA Kill Teams In Afghanistan

    http://dailycaller.com/2017/10/22/trump-unleashes-cia-kill-teams-in-afghanistan/

    >>> >>> >>>

    These CIA missions will reportedly include both paramilitary personnel of the CIA along with U.S. special operations forces detailed to the agency for specific missions. The use of special operations forces allows hunter killer teams to call in air support, if necessary, as they hunt Taliban bomb-makers across the country.

    The US Army is a subsidiary of the CIA – How does this happen?

    How is it that the CIA is so powerful in our government – that it makes war on the world with allmost ZERO control from congress?

    Think Peace — Art

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  75. eD says:
    @anon
    Suppose nothing changes ,everything stays same - the losses of American lives, shock of 2008 economic depression, current intelligence on Iraqi WMD opioid epidemic, and inglorious war victories or pure losses ,resurging China, Crimea within Russian borders- and we transport Bannon/Flkynn to pre 2003 March world, he would support war against Iraq he would be cheerleading it , he would be conspiring against those opposing the IRAQ WAR while lambasting previous administrations for Gulf war, Kosovo and Balkan war .


    He has exactly recreated the situation or confirmed what he would have done in 2003 by supporting aggressive anti Iran agenda. He supports war against Iran . One will question how that fits with his anti interventionist stances How that comports with his anti war theories . It doesn't . It confirms him to be a psycho It confirms him to be nothing but an opportunist who uses anti war sentiment of Trump base . He wants himself to be exploiting ,his circle to be in charge , his profit to be ascertained and not some "kisisnger elite"
    He figured out that with Russia not threatened by any regime change, he could get Russia on his side or at least he could get a Russia that would be working with him strategically .To Bannon/Flynn hope is at least Russia would ignore and condone the direction- or they could divvy up the bonanza resulting from foreign intervention . Flynn/B annon's Russian love stems from this rotten philosophy .



    You see ,what he is trying now. He is positioning himself as strategist , as american patriot, as isolationist as helming at "America 1st " bandwagon who opposes unnecessary wars .

    But he is a Pseudo

    There is a good point here.

    While both ideas are and were nuts, there are perfectly rational reasons to want to invade Iraq and not invade Iran. Compared to Iran, Iraq is less populated, less well run, less defensible, the Baathist regime was nastier (so removing Hussein and the Tikrit gang woudl be a good in itself), violated internationa norms more (chemical weapons against the Kurds), and was even more anti-Israeli. Plus Iraq was governed as a colony by the Turks and invaded successfully twice by the British, so we knew that it could be done. None of these considerations apply to Iran.

    So if you want an sort of puppet state for the US in the Middle East, I could see why you could pick Iraq and not Iran.

    Opposing the invasion of Iraq but advocating an aggressive posture against Iran makes absolutely no sense at all. Though its a bad idea, wanting to invade Iraq and not Iran makes some sense. So does making Iraq your ally against Iran. And wanting to attack both countries is consistent. As does not wanting to attack either. But there is no way this crown wanted to attack Iran and leave Iraq alone unless they were insane.

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  76. @hyperbola
    Aaaaaaggghhhh!

    Forget about official USA bias in this account by The Century Foundation.....
     
    This is NOT USA bias. The Century Foundation has become just another of the zionist propaganda organizations with connections all the way back to Edward Bernays in the generation of propaganda for gullible Americans. That the Century Foundation is still publishing such assertions is shameful.

    Whose sarin?
    https://www.lrb.co.uk/v35/n24/seymour-m-hersh/whose-sarin

    Trump‘s Red Line
    https://www.welt.de/politik/ausland/article165905578/Trump-s-Red-Line.html

    The real issue is NOT WMDs. The real issue is control of American foreign policy by a racist-supremacist, mideast sect.

    hyperbola:

    We have a communication problem: my purpose in using “official USA bias” was to signal that I do not consider the Century Foundation report to be an unbiased report, I was NOT endorsing the Century Foundation, I thought that was clear … but somehow you managed to take my meaning opposite to what I intended. To be clear., if I say something is aligned with “official USA” propaganda, that doesn’t mean that it aligns with the actual interests of the USA or of the American people. The reason I used the TCF link was that it came up on Google and could be used as a source for history of the brief Putin-Obama successful collaboration to destroy a stock of chemical weapons. My purpose was to suggest that history shows that USA and Russia have made progress toward a workable weapons control regime in the past (as recently as 2013) … so it should be worth trying to return to that collaboration in the present or the future. I think that’s something worth keeping in mind — especially now that Trump has joined the anti-Russia crowd.

    From hyperbola’s post:

    Whose sarin?

    https://www.lrb.co.uk/v35/n24/seymour-m-hersh/whose-sarin

    Trump‘s Red Line

    https://www.welt.de/politik/ausland/article165905578/Trump-s-Red-Line.html

    Yes! Two excellent links. Thank you.

    More from hyperbola:

    “The real issue is NOT WMDs. The real issue is control of American foreign policy by a racist-supremacist, mideast sect.”

    Put it this way: the road leads toward Russia-USA cooperation, to address the issue of WMDs: the obstruction in the road is control of USA foreign/military policy by the Neocon faction in Washington … which is, to be sure, beholden to ” a racist-supremacist, mideast sect.”

    I hope I have cleared up the miscommunication problem. “My bad.” Thank you for your comment.

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  77. @Anon
    A worthy repost from the comment section of: "Above All" - The Junta Expands Its Claim To Power" http://www.moonofalabama.org/2017/10/above-all-the-junta-expands-its-claim-to-power.html#c6a00d8341c640e53ef01bb09cfaf4b970d

    Posted by Camillus O'Byrne:
    "... These clowns call themselves "General" and we are supposed to think that puts them in the same class as a Wellington or a Caesar or Napoleon? They were all first class bastards, ruthless, but fine Generals. Tough, bold, audacious leaders of men and brilliant strategists, who took risks, including with their own lives. Hell, the Prussian officer training system turned out Quartermasters that were better field Generals than these American frauds.
    As I have said in another thread, the US has none of the martial virtues. Not as a people, not as military institutions, not as individual soldiers or sailors (their airmen are obviously cowards or psychopaths so not necessary even to consider in this context). Virtues such as steadfastness in adversity, discipline when under fire, self-sacrifice for comrades and the cause. Not saying anything about the morality of any particular cause here, just what makes a professional army. To compare the US military with Rome's Legions, say, is laughable. The biggest difference between these American whackers is that in real armies individuals are expected to be able to contend with a worthy adversary. To take risks. To fight when it is HARD to fight. Even Rome's patricians understood that every now and then they had to expose themselves to danger if they were to have any honour, as Crassus, richest of them all, found out very dramatically when he met his end at the head of the Syrian Legions. (Defeated by the Iranians! - they've seen 'em all come and go). Windbags like Kelly wouldn't know what honour is.
    The US has NEVER fought an adversary on anything like equal terms. They preen themselves about WW2. I call BS. They waited until the Soviets had broken the back of the most fearsome war machine in history, the Wehrmacht and then faced teenagers and old men in France. On the occasions when they did face professional German troops they had their whiney arses kicked. As for the Pacific war, they stood off island after island and rained a stupendous amount of naval shells and bombs on the Japanese garrisons to the point where they were insane with the cacophany and pure physical terror to turn your bowels to water, before setting foot on them, while the aerial destruction of Japanese cities is one of the great atrocities in history, disgraceful and completely without honour. I suspect a disproportionate number of US military casualties are due to being run over by a forklift, training accidents, friendly fire, syphilis or fragging of their own. The qualities the US military (they don't deserve the epithet "army") exemplifies are cowardice, incompetence, viciousness and wanton destructiveness...."

    Well, Anon, that is a cute diatribe that you have reposted from out of Moon of Alabama’s comments. All I can say is that the content is more emotional than rational, or as Aristotle would have it: more argument from pathos than from logos.

    My idea of a general officer worth following is Maxwell D. Taylor. Commanding the 101st Airborne Division, he jumped with the troops into Normandy! I believe that Taylor is never mentioned by Eisenhower in the latter’s Crusade in Europe …. or elsewhere …. because Eisenhower was jealous of a general who was — and repeatedly proved himself — a real soldier. That would be as distinguished from a great politician such as Eisenhower.

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    • Replies: @Anon
    Thank you for the story of Maxwell D. Taylor.
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  78. Alden says:
    @jilles dykstra
    I am reading Howard Zinn, A Peoples History of the USA, 1492 to the Present.
    A sad story, how the USA always was a police state, where the two percent rich manipulated the 98% poor, to stay rich.
    When there were insurrections federal troops restored order.
    Also FDR put down strikes with troops.

    Americans know all that Jilles. We don’t need you to tell us about it. Howard Zinn is a commumist Jew dedicated to destroying America and western Europe including the Netherlands. I’ve read his book. It focuses totally on what is wrong with America and makes everything worse than it was.

    FDR did not put down any worker’s strikes with troops. FDR actually made the labor umions and workers movements very powerful. This lead to the rise of the middle class. What Zinn referred to was a mass demonstration in Washington that was put down by the army. That demonstration was not by labor unions and workers. It was by veterans of WW1 who wanted an early disbursement of their veteran old age pensions.

    FDR was the workers and labor unions best friend. Howard Zinn is one of those jewish marxists whose propaganda is only believed by people with empty sinks for brains. Put in the plug and turn on the Howard Zinn tap until the empty sink is full.

    You seem intelligent but you aren’t American and probably didn’t realize what Howard Zinn is when you started reading his book. He is about as unbiased as Hitler or any other propagandist with an agenda.

    Instead of always criticizing America, why not take a look at your insignificant little brothel on the North Sea? At least sex slavery is illegal in America whereas your country is filled with sex slave E European girls owned by the pimps who bought them from other pimps.

    I’ve read left wing accounts of the way your country treated Indonesia all those hundreds of years it was a Dutch colony. So don’t throw stones at other White countries

    Only leftists and the incredibly naive read Howard Zinn

    I’m sure Zinn claims that Columbus and his sailors purposefully infected the indians with smallpox and syphilis. FYI empty sink; Columbus crew brought back syphilis from America and later explorers brought smallpox to Europe from America.

    Try to post about what you know, not nonsense and lies from Howard Zinn.

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  79. Alden says:
    @anonymous
    Only dumb people does not know that TRUMP IS NETANYAHU'S PUPPET.

    The fifth column zionist jews are running the albino stooge and foreign policy in the Middle East to expand Israel's interest against American interest that is TREASON. One of these FIFTH COLUMNISTS is Jared Kushner. He should be arrested.

    https://www.globalresearch.ca/donald-trumps-likudist-campaign-against-iran/5614264

    [The key figures who had primary influence on both Trump’s and Bush’s Iran policies held views close to those of Israel’s right-wing Likud Party. The main conduit for the Likudist line in the Trump White House is Jared Kushner, the president’s son-in-law, primary foreign policy advisor, and longtime friend and supporter of Netanyahu. Kushner’s parents are also long-time supporters of Israeli settlements on the occupied West Bank.

    Another figure to whom the Trump White House has turned is John Bolton, undersecretary of state and a key policymaker on Iran in the Bush administration. Although Bolton was not appointed Trump’s secretary of state, as he’d hoped, he suddenly reemerged as a player on Iran policy thanks to his relationship with Kushner. Politico reports that Bolton met with Kushner a few days before the final policy statement was released and urged a complete withdrawal from the deal in favor of his own plan for containing Iran.

    Bolton spoke with Trump by phone on Thursday about the paragraph in the deal that vowed it would be “terminated” if there was any renegotiation, according toPolitico. He was calling Trump from Las Vegas, where he’d been meeting with casino magnate Sheldon Adelson, the third major figure behind Trump’s shift towards Israeli issues. Adelson is a Likud supporter who has long been a close friend of Netanyahu’s and has used his Israeli tabloid newspaper Israel Hayomto support Netanyahu’s campaigns. He was Trump’s main campaign contributor in 2016, donating $100 million. Adelson’s real interest has been in supporting Israel’s interests in Washington—especially with regard to Iran.]

    And yet every Jew I know but one hates and loathes Trump because the official Jewish publications told them to hate and loathe and vote against Trump.

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  80. @Seamus Padraig
    That pre-9/11 "cooperation" nearly destroyed Russia. Nobody in Russia (except, perhaps, for Pussy Riot) wants a return to the Yeltsin era.

    “That pre-9/11 “cooperation” nearly destroyed Russia. Nobody in Russia (except, perhaps, for Pussy Riot) wants a return to the Yeltsin era” — Seamus Padraig

    Seamus,

    I did not mean, by “pre-9/11 cooperation,” to indicate the con-game give-aways or wholesale looting by Russian oligarchs of Russia’s mineral and oil wealth, wrecking the Russian economic infrastructure, impoverishing the Russian working class, that Yeltsin presided over in Russia in the 1990s. What I meant by “pre-9/11 cooperation” was the extensive and intensive cooperation of USA and Russia on destroying nuclear weapons and other WMD — actual practical steps taken cooperatively by the two superpowers away from rather than toward nuclear Armageddon.

    To document the extent of such USA-Russia cooperation, I here present three quotes from “The Nunn-Lugar Program” (OPB’s Frontline) interview of Ashton Carter:

    “We had exercises where our troops and Russian troops would get together and work together.”

    “So our relationship with the Russian military, between the Department of Defense of the United States and the Ministry of Defense of Russia, is very good.”

    “Moreover, we have lots of other common interests with the Russian military. Our troops and Russian troops are shoulder to shoulder in Bosnia today. So there were other things helping us build a relationship with the Russian military. The Russian Atomic Energy Ministry is something of a throw-back, in western terms at least. It is still working in a way that our Atomic Energy Commission was in the 1950s and 1960s….They’re working on projects that we have regarded as either dangerous from a proliferation point of view, or not economically sound…, for example, breeder reactors. So the Russian Atomic Energy Ministry, there’s more of a mismatch between them and us than between the Russian military and the US military….”

    To compare that former close Russia-USA collaboration with the situation today:

    “Military-to-military engagement on Euro-Atlantic issues between NATO and Russia, as well as the United States and Russia, has—for all practical purposes—been terminated.”– quoted from Nuclear Threat Initiative (NTI) paper, Rising Nuclear Dangers [etc.], by Robert E. Berls, Jr., and Leon Ratz (2015)

    From Reuter’s “Commentary: The number one reason to fix U.S.-Russia relations” (November 2016) ”

    “The danger from the erosion in nuclear arms control is exacerbated by the fact that the American and Russian miltaries are no longer in regular contact. ….

    “As part of its goal of reducing the risk that militants will obtain a nuclear weapon or nuclear material such as weapons-grade uranium, should the DOE restart cooperation with Rosatom, frozen after the Crimea annexation? In exchange, the United States could demand that Russia sign back on to the plutonium disposal agreement and agree to change it so that the United States can bury its excess plutonium underground.

    “Washington policymakers should understand that Russian-American nuclear cooperation is not a concession to Moscow, but a strong U.S. national security interest. … [T]here are about four minutes between the time that the president gives the order to use nuclear weapons and when the weapons are launched. Trump must find ways to reduce the risk of a catastrophic nuclear exchange – and getting U.S.-Russian collaboration back on track is the best way to do so.”

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  81. Alden says:
    @Anon
    A worthy repost from the comment section of: "Above All" - The Junta Expands Its Claim To Power" http://www.moonofalabama.org/2017/10/above-all-the-junta-expands-its-claim-to-power.html#c6a00d8341c640e53ef01bb09cfaf4b970d

    Posted by Camillus O'Byrne:
    "... These clowns call themselves "General" and we are supposed to think that puts them in the same class as a Wellington or a Caesar or Napoleon? They were all first class bastards, ruthless, but fine Generals. Tough, bold, audacious leaders of men and brilliant strategists, who took risks, including with their own lives. Hell, the Prussian officer training system turned out Quartermasters that were better field Generals than these American frauds.
    As I have said in another thread, the US has none of the martial virtues. Not as a people, not as military institutions, not as individual soldiers or sailors (their airmen are obviously cowards or psychopaths so not necessary even to consider in this context). Virtues such as steadfastness in adversity, discipline when under fire, self-sacrifice for comrades and the cause. Not saying anything about the morality of any particular cause here, just what makes a professional army. To compare the US military with Rome's Legions, say, is laughable. The biggest difference between these American whackers is that in real armies individuals are expected to be able to contend with a worthy adversary. To take risks. To fight when it is HARD to fight. Even Rome's patricians understood that every now and then they had to expose themselves to danger if they were to have any honour, as Crassus, richest of them all, found out very dramatically when he met his end at the head of the Syrian Legions. (Defeated by the Iranians! - they've seen 'em all come and go). Windbags like Kelly wouldn't know what honour is.
    The US has NEVER fought an adversary on anything like equal terms. They preen themselves about WW2. I call BS. They waited until the Soviets had broken the back of the most fearsome war machine in history, the Wehrmacht and then faced teenagers and old men in France. On the occasions when they did face professional German troops they had their whiney arses kicked. As for the Pacific war, they stood off island after island and rained a stupendous amount of naval shells and bombs on the Japanese garrisons to the point where they were insane with the cacophany and pure physical terror to turn your bowels to water, before setting foot on them, while the aerial destruction of Japanese cities is one of the great atrocities in history, disgraceful and completely without honour. I suspect a disproportionate number of US military casualties are due to being run over by a forklift, training accidents, friendly fire, syphilis or fragging of their own. The qualities the US military (they don't deserve the epithet "army") exemplifies are cowardice, incompetence, viciousness and wanton destructiveness...."

    Were Wellington and Napoleon really all that great? Or did their biographers just claim they were great. Ever heard of the bulls of Hougemont Farm who routed the French at Waterloo? No general could have anticipated that. Some of the French were holed up at Hougemont Farm. The cannons and other artillery set the barn on fire and a couple dozen scorched and angry bulls got out and the French had to flee thus clearing the way for the British Prussian etc etc army to win Napoleon’s last battle.

    America did win the war against Japan all by ourselves without help from the soviets. But we haven’t won a war since. So maybe you’re right. I live near a major VA complex. Everyone who works there seems to be either black or if a Dr some dot Indian with their fake degrees.

    I don’t respect the military much because it seems to be a minority , gay, single mom full employment program. Can’t see why any White would want to join.

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    • Replies: @jilles dykstra
    Napoleon created the modern nation states, not just France, but also the Netherlands.
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  82. Alden says:
    @jacques sheete

    But what is more concerning, is that the primary levers of state power are no longer controlled by elected officials but by factions within the state whose interests do not coincide with those of the American people.
     
    Cheezuss, Mike, when are smart people going to understand that the above is not a bug, but a feature?

    Even a low IQ, dumb goy such as myself can see it and the anti federalists even predicted it ~225 years ago!


    It was a common saying among many sensible men in Great Britain and Ireland, in the time of the war, that they doubted whether the great men of America, who had taken an active part in favor of independence, were influenced by pure patriotism: that it was not the love of their country they had so much at heart, as their own private interest; that a thirst after dominion and power, and not to protect the oppressed from the oppressor, was the great operative principle that induced these men to oppose Britain so strenuously...

    But alas! the truth of the sentiment is now indisputably confirmed; facts are stubborn things, and these set the matter beyond controversy. The new constitution, and the conduct of its despotic advocates, shew that these men’s doubts were really well founded. Unparalleled duplicity! that men should oppose tyranny under a pretence of patriotism, that they might themselves become the tyrants. How does such villainy disgrace human nature! Ah, my fellow-citizens, you have been strangely deceived indeed; when the wealthy of your own country assisted you to expel the foreign tyrant, only with a view to substitute themselves in his stead.

    -Philadelphiensis III, December 05, 1787
    http://teachingamericanhistory.org/library/document/philadelphiensis-iii/
     

    ” their own private interest; that a thirst after dominion and power, and not to protect the oppressed from the oppressor, was the great operative principle that induced these men to oppose Britain so strenuously…”

    I figured that out in 8th grade when we came to a page or two about the whiskey rebellion. So I found a couple books at home about the Whiskey rebellion and concluded that the wealthy elite founders borrowed all that money from France and arranged for the frontiersmen to pay off that 13 billion loan.

    My Daddy made whiskey
    Grandpappy did too.
    We ain’t paid no whiskey tax
    Since 1792

    That was when I became a cynic.

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  83. Anon says: • Disclaimer
    @Grandpa Charlie
    Well, Anon, that is a cute diatribe that you have reposted from out of Moon of Alabama's comments. All I can say is that the content is more emotional than rational, or as Aristotle would have it: more argument from pathos than from logos.

    My idea of a general officer worth following is Maxwell D. Taylor. Commanding the 101st Airborne Division, he jumped with the troops into Normandy! I believe that Taylor is never mentioned by Eisenhower in the latter's Crusade in Europe .... or elsewhere .... because Eisenhower was jealous of a general who was -- and repeatedly proved himself -- a real soldier. That would be as distinguished from a great politician such as Eisenhower.

    Thank you for the story of Maxwell D. Taylor.

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    • Replies: @Grandpa Charlie

    Thank you for the story of Maxwell D. Taylor
     
    Thank you for taking note.

    If we had someone of that caliber today, he would probably have been fired by Trump before now -- as General Flynn was.
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  84. Alden says:
    @jilles dykstra
    Every two or three pages there is a reference.
    Moreover, it does not tell me much that is new to me, what is impressive is how nothing changed in the USA since whites began to arrive there.
    I happen to know how FDR used troops te break strikes, I happen to know how Rockefeller got rich, I happen to know how Theodore Roosevelt loved war.
    I did read a detailed account of the Sand Creek Massacre, and how the buffaloes were deliberately exterminated in a few years.
    And the three volumes of the diaries of Harold L Ickes tell the same story as Zinn.
    I already did have Apthekers book on slave revolts, and Baruch's bragging on how he performed his tricks on Wall Street.
    And I have
    Edward H. Spicer, 'Cycles of Conquest, The Impact of Spain, Mexico, and the United States of the Southwest', 1533 - 1960', Tucson, 1962, 1970
    and
    John T. Flynn, ´The Roosevelt Myth, A critical account of the New Deal and its creator’, New York 1948, 1949
    and
    Larry G. Gerber, ´The Limits of Liberalism, Josephus Daniels, Henry Stimson, Bernard Baruch, Donald Richberg, Felix Frankfurter and the Development of the Modern American Political Economy’, New York, London, 1984

    “I happen to know how FDR used troops to break strikes,”

    It wasn’t a strike or strikes. It was one huge demonstration by WW1 veterans who wanted early disbursement of their bonus/pension. That was one incident and it was not a strike.

    Some counties in the coal country of the upper south used local police to break strikes. But FDR used them only once for the WW1 veterans bonus march it was called.

    You are much too intelligent to believe Howard Zinn. But then you still bear a grudge against King Phillip for trying to put down a rebellion in one of his many pathetic little provinces 470 years ago.

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  85. Brennan is not Boston Irish. Did you ever hear him speak? He slips into that lilting arabic sound. Any enemy of islam is an enemy of John Brennan.

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  86. @Anon
    Thank you for the story of Maxwell D. Taylor.

    Thank you for the story of Maxwell D. Taylor

    Thank you for taking note.

    If we had someone of that caliber today, he would probably have been fired by Trump before now — as General Flynn was.

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  87. Do you dispute the facts mentioned by Zinn ?
    The book is one sided, this is stated on the first pages.
    It is not about presidents, generals, and robber barons.

    That those educated in USA glory etc. do not like the book is understandable.
    Already years ago I corresponded with a USA citizen about the Monroe Doctrine, that European countries had considered war about it, they saw is as USA colonialism.
    My correspondent wrote ‘the Monroe Doctrine is still educated here in glowing terms’.

    What Zinn describes is not new to me, a country where money reigns, under the guise of democracy.
    Zinn describes Democrats and Republicans as essentially the same, rich people trying to get power to remain rich, I indeed never understood the difference between Democrats and Republicans until the same correspondent explained it ‘Democrats is new money, Republicans is old money’.

    An excellent book on how USA capitalists cooperate with government is
    Jonathan Raban, ‘Bad Land’, London 1997
    How ignorant immigrants were lured into Montana, and who profited.
    In essence the same as the subprime mortgages, that also made the banks rich, the taxpayer pays, as always.

    About FDR
    John T. Flynn, ´The Roosevelt Myth, A critical account of the New Deal and its creator’, New York 1948, 1949

    On Dutch history, I know all about it, never romanticised it.

    And of course I criticise the USA, not just an asocial country, but also the most militaristic in human history, as bad as the Roman empire.
    Just the period 1919 1932 was a peaceful period, 1919 because the USA people realised that their sons had died for imperialism, 1932, because FDR entered politics.

    Charles A. Beard, ‘American Foreign Policy in the Making, 1932 – 1940, A study in responsibilities’, New Haven, 1946
    Frederick W. Marks III, ‘Wind over Sand, The diplomacy of Franklin Roosevelt’, 1988 Athens Georgia
    Harry Elmer Barnes, ed., ‘Perpetual War for Perpetual Peace, A critical examination of the foreign policy of Franklin Delano Roosevelt and its aftermath’, Caldwell, Idaho, 1953
    Frans Kurowski, ‘Der Thomas E. Mahl, ‘Desperate deception, British covert operations in the United States 1939-44’, Dulles, Virginia, 1998

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    • Replies: @jilles dykstra
    Something went wrong with the last title, it must be
    Thomas E. Mahl, ‘Desperate deception, British covert operations in the United States 1939-44’, Dulles, Virginia, 1998
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  88. @jilles dykstra
    Do you dispute the facts mentioned by Zinn ?
    The book is one sided, this is stated on the first pages.
    It is not about presidents, generals, and robber barons.

    That those educated in USA glory etc. do not like the book is understandable.
    Already years ago I corresponded with a USA citizen about the Monroe Doctrine, that European countries had considered war about it, they saw is as USA colonialism.
    My correspondent wrote 'the Monroe Doctrine is still educated here in glowing terms'.

    What Zinn describes is not new to me, a country where money reigns, under the guise of democracy.
    Zinn describes Democrats and Republicans as essentially the same, rich people trying to get power to remain rich, I indeed never understood the difference between Democrats and Republicans until the same correspondent explained it 'Democrats is new money, Republicans is old money'.

    An excellent book on how USA capitalists cooperate with government is
    Jonathan Raban, 'Bad Land', London 1997
    How ignorant immigrants were lured into Montana, and who profited.
    In essence the same as the subprime mortgages, that also made the banks rich, the taxpayer pays, as always.

    About FDR
    John T. Flynn, ´The Roosevelt Myth, A critical account of the New Deal and its creator’, New York 1948, 1949

    On Dutch history, I know all about it, never romanticised it.

    And of course I criticise the USA, not just an asocial country, but also the most militaristic in human history, as bad as the Roman empire.
    Just the period 1919 1932 was a peaceful period, 1919 because the USA people realised that their sons had died for imperialism, 1932, because FDR entered politics.

    Charles A. Beard, ‘American Foreign Policy in the Making, 1932 – 1940, A study in responsibilities’, New Haven, 1946
    Frederick W. Marks III, 'Wind over Sand, The diplomacy of Franklin Roosevelt', 1988 Athens Georgia
    Harry Elmer Barnes, ed., ‘Perpetual War for Perpetual Peace, A critical examination of the foreign policy of Franklin Delano Roosevelt and its aftermath’, Caldwell, Idaho, 1953
    Frans Kurowski, 'Der Thomas E. Mahl, ‘Desperate deception, British covert operations in the United States 1939-44’, Dulles, Virginia, 1998

    Something went wrong with the last title, it must be
    Thomas E. Mahl, ‘Desperate deception, British covert operations in the United States 1939-44’, Dulles, Virginia, 1998

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  89. @Alden
    Were Wellington and Napoleon really all that great? Or did their biographers just claim they were great. Ever heard of the bulls of Hougemont Farm who routed the French at Waterloo? No general could have anticipated that. Some of the French were holed up at Hougemont Farm. The cannons and other artillery set the barn on fire and a couple dozen scorched and angry bulls got out and the French had to flee thus clearing the way for the British Prussian etc etc army to win Napoleon's last battle.

    America did win the war against Japan all by ourselves without help from the soviets. But we haven't won a war since. So maybe you're right. I live near a major VA complex. Everyone who works there seems to be either black or if a Dr some dot Indian with their fake degrees.

    I don't respect the military much because it seems to be a minority , gay, single mom full employment program. Can't see why any White would want to join.

    Napoleon created the modern nation states, not just France, but also the Netherlands.

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  90. Anon says: • Disclaimer
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  91. Anon says: • Disclaimer

    A reminder of how the US oligarchy (FedReserve) in cahoots with the Democratic party have obliterated democracy in the US by appointing the obedient Texan ziocon Truman (2% approval rate) instead of the honest and principled Wallace (60% approval rate): https://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2017/10/23/american-left-rip/
    The rest is the history of Clintonites-Obamanites moral and intellectual midgets.

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  92. Anon says: • Disclaimer

    Brennan is not alone:
    “As previously reported, prior to the Obama administration approving the very controversial deal in 2010 giving Russia 20% of America’s Uranium, the FBI had evidence that Russian nuclear industry officials were involved in bribery, kickbacks, extortion and money laundering… The Clintons took the cash from Uranium One officials before the deal was approved by Hillary Clinton’s State Department. The Clintons hid the donations which is a clear violation of the Memorandum of Understanding Hillary Clinton signed with the Obama administration wherein she promised and agreed to publicly disclose all donations during her tenure as Secreatary of State.
    The FBI informant working on the case was threatened by the Obama administration after he witnessed the bribery, extortion and money laundering as money exchanged through briefcases and yellow envelopes.
    The FBI informant needs an NDA lifted in order for him to testify to Congress. According to a recent report, Jeff Sessions’ DOJ refuses to lift the NDA.”

    http://theduran.com/wikileaks-leaked-email-proves-hillary-clinton-knew-uranium-one-was-a-huge-scandal/

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  93. @Wizard of Oz
    Please elaborate and clarify. Do you not think that when you call a person "reasonable" it would imply to most people that you were probably suggesting, inter alia, that the person's words and actions tended to be moderate and restrained , without excess or unnecessary violence?

    WoO:

    “By what criteria…:”

    What is hateful to you do not do to others. This is THE criterion.

    Your country is killing people in distant lands, people who did you no harm and you do not even know they exist.

    I am sure you and your country consider yourselves “reasonable” and “rationaL”.

    ” … the plank in your eye…”

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    • Agree: Rurik
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