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IQ: A Skeptic’s View
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Intelligence is worth talking about because both the reality of intelligence and perceptions regarding intelligence set limits on the possible and influence policy. For example, if the population of India on average really is below borderline retardation, the country can never amount to anything. If Latino immigrants really are as stupid as white nationalists hope, then they will always inhabit an underclass and, through intermarriage, enstupidate the American population. IQists–those who believe that IQ is a reliable measure of intelligence–insist that intelligence is largely genetic, which it obviously is, and that IQ tests reliably measure it. The latter is doubtful.

A bit of history: For years I was on Steve Sailer’s Human-Biodiversity List, now defunct. It focused on IQ and on natural selection with the fervor of snake-handlers in the backwoods of North Carolina. Contradictions in their views were stark in regard to intelligence, which was assumed identical to IQ. In communities of like-thinking enthusiasts, contradictions go unnoticed.

For example, American blacks, the Irish, and Mexicans had IQs accepted by the list as being 85, 86, and 87 respectively—almost identical. It seemed odd to me that identical IQs had produced (a) the on-going academic disaster of American blacks (b) an upper Third World country running the usual infrastructure of telecommunications, medicine, airlines, and so on, and (c) a First World European country. This, though IQist doctrine argued vociferously that IQ correlates closely with achievement. Well, it didn’t.

I was struck by the perfect acceptance of these numbers even though they made no sense. IQists simply do not question IQ. I pointed out the obvious conclusion, that if Mexicans could run the infrastructure of modern nations, decent if not spectacular universities, and so on, then so, on the basis of IQ, could blacks—none of which they in fact do, or have done.

When I pointed this out, there came the IQist shuck-and-jive: Well, black IQ you see was actually a bit lower, 83 or maybe even 81, and maybe the Mexicans were as much as 89 or even 90, etc. That is, IQ varies with the argument being made. (For the record, Mexicans have been promoted from 87 to 90, IQ being remarkably fluid.)

Colombia-city
Photo: Cartagena, Colombia. Do you really believe that this city was designed and built by people with a mean IQ of 84? That is six points below Mexicans, and below American blacks? As a matter of logic, it follows that if people of IQ 84 can design, build, and operate a city with all the credentials of modernity, so can a population of IQ 85. It’s either both can, or neither can, or something is wrong with the purported IQs. For what it’s worth, my wife and I recently spent a month traveling widely in the country. No sign of stupidity.

Meanwhile, it turns out that, heh, the Irish IQ has risen 13 points to 100, exactly what one would expect of a white European nation. (It is sometimes put at 93, arrived at by averaging the 86 and the 100, horrible methodology since if two tests differed so much, then one or both must be nonsense.) For that matter, one reads that Argentine scores rose 22 points between 1964 and 1998. Meanwhile Jewish scores and academic achievement in America, astonishingly high a couple of generations back, have fallen precipitately. Since genetics cannot explain rapid changes in IQ, we conclude that a thirteen-point (or 22 point) change can be entirely due to non-genetic effects—diet, culture, ineffective tests, what have you.

This is furiously denied in IQist circles. The reason, in my judgement, is that thirteen points is exactly the purported gap between Mexicans and US whites insisted upon by IQists. These, often rabidly anti-immigration, do not want to admit any possibility that the immigrants might not be suitably stupid. Why they want immigrants to their country to be moronic is not clear.

Maya city
Photo: Uxmal, Yucatan, built by baffled Maya Indians with a mean IQ of 83. This is two points below borderline retarded. They also also invented writing, done perhaps three times on the planet, and had a fully functional, positional, base-20 number system complete with zero. The borderline retarded characteristically invent number systems. It’s how you know they are retarded.

The IQ edifice is often chaotic and contradictory. For example, Science: “A new study in the journal Intelligence from researchers in Europe claims that the average IQ in Western nations dropped by a staggering 13 points over the past century.” The suggested explanation is that smart women have fewer children, de-braining the gene pool.

So IQ is down by about a standard deviation. On the other hand, it is up a standard deviation. There is the Flynn effect in which IQ scores have risen three points per decade for a long time. (Because IQ is normalized to 100, the rise isn’t obvious.) This means that in the fifty years since I graduated from high school in 1964, IQ has risen fifteen points, a standard deviation and exactly the amount said to separate blacks and whites. This is a huge difference. If IQ measured intelligence, we would be in the midst of an intellectual explosion. We are not. If the Flynn effect applies to blacks, they should now be as smart as whites were in 1964. You know, when the Saturn V was being designed.

The question of variation in intelligence over historical time, usually attributed to some evolutionary process, is murky. Everything is posited, little demonstrated. However, I suggest that anyone reading the Greeks of 2500 years ago–Plato, Xenophon come to mind–or the Romans–Juvenal, Ovid, Ulpian and Papinian–will recognize minds as good as any deployed today.

MexFacts2

Mexico, God knows when but maybe in 1900. It is the Mexico of IQist fantasy.

DavyCrockett
Fifteen-year-olds, a few years ago, probably genetically indistinguishable from the foregoing. First-generation middle-class. One a Mensa shoe-in if she applied. None of them white, not from rich families. Do you really, really think that perfect health, eleven years of schooling, and exposure to the internet do not give them an advantage in IQ over illiterate unhealthy peasants?

Then in the IQ brew there is the occasional intrusion of common sense. (Not much of it, I grant.) A country whose purported IQ seems to me to fail the test of common sense is India, mean IQ 81. Here we have a billion people averaging well below borderline-retarded. Say again? Anyone even vaguely familiar with the intellectual, artistic, and musical history of India is going to think, “What are you guys smoking?”

There immediately springs to everyone’s mind that Indian kids dominate the Scripps National Spelling Bee. The IQist response is that only the smartest Indian kids come to the US. Perhaps, but the smartest American kids are already here, aren’t they? And since the kids got their visas based on the brains of their parents, shouldn’t they be regressing to the (dismal) mean?

IQNew--Spelling
Photo: 2015 co-champions.

I would have to believe real hard to believe that the large number of incandescently smart Indians who litter Silicon Valley, who in my tech-reporting days I found all over engineering departments and Bell Labs and the like, spring from sub-retarded stock. Yes, I know the IQist explanation, that they are genetically-selected Brahmans, said to have a mean IQ of 96, the rest of the country being wretchedly stupid. Well, maybe. Like so much in IQist thought, it relies on genes posited but not identified, acted upon by selective pressures assumed but not quantifiable, to produce assumed effects that cannot be correlated with the pressures. If that isn’t rock-solid, I can’t imagine what could be.

Having spent twelve years in Mexico, I can see no difference in intelligence between Mexicans and Americans. Nor when I lived in Taiwan, Vietnam, or Thailand. This raises the question: How great would the difference have to be to be noticeable? Clearly, greater than thirteen points (OK, now reduced, sometimes, to ten points), since that is the Mexi-American gap measured by IQists. The response will be that I am reasonably intelligent and so spend my time with the reasonably intelligent, but that is equally true in the US, and of course I am in frequent contact with ordinary citizens.

As a sort of by-guess-and-by-God way of getting around this, I have compared Americans and Mexicans in trades I know well in the US–medicine, journalism, etc–and still can see no difference.

ORDER IT NOW

A final question, and I will go for breakfast. What mean IQ is thought necessary to run the infrastructure of modernity? I don’t know, but I would like to. A modern country requires a lot of intelligence—different degrees of it, but nonetheless a lot. Stupid bank clerks can’t handle currency transactions internationally (SWIFT codes, intermediary banks, exchange rates, and complex regulations). The stupid cannot repair ATMs or avionics or run computerized auto-repair or internet services. At what mean IQ, going down the scale, does a country simply become incapable of producing enough smart people to keep functioning? In a country with a mean IQ of 84, fewer than one in six have an IQ of 100 or better. Is that enough? You tell me.

Eggs over, bacon on the side…

Fred can be reached at jetpossum-readers@yahoo.com. Put the letters pdq somewhere in the subject line to avoid autodeletion.

(Republished from Fred on Everything by permission of author or representative)
 
• Category: Ideology, Science • Tags: Immigration, IQ, Race/IQ 
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  1. People must put emotions first.

    After all, ideas and knowledge are nice, but they are secondary to affection and attachment.

    But in order to maintain a culture, it is an imperative to love one’s own kind.

    If there’s a couple and they have a 100 books on the shelf, should one spouse love the other more based on her reading more books on the shelf?
    Should he love her less if she read only 20 books than all 100 books?

    Ideas, arts, and knowledge are nice, but emotions come first.

    A parent shouldn’t love the child more or love the child less on the basis of how many books the kid read. It’s good to read, but emotions are not first and foremost about ideas in the head.

    This photo says it all. The daughter is severely crippled, but the emotions are there. That makes people human.

    We need to go from ‘intellectuals’ to ‘emotionales’.

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  2. FKA Max says:

    If the Flynn effect applies to blacks, they should now be as smart as whites were in 1964. You know, when the Saturn V was being designed.

    Personally, I believe that the MAOA gene is more important and has more of an effect on the functioning or non-functioning of a society than “just” IQ. It just happens to be, that many of the lower-IQ societies also happen to have a higher number of low-activity MAOA carriers, and most IQ researchers do not control for that, and attribute all those nations’ “shortcomings” just to IQ, when the “real” explanation is a combination of lack of impulse control (low-activity MAOA) and (low) IQ, IMO:

    Scientists Rediscover the Violence Gene, MAOA-2R

    In fact, the Guo et al 2008 study in the European Journal of Human Genetics included an in-vitro functional analysis of MAOA in human brain-tumor cells. MAOA-2R was less active than MAOA-3R, which was less active than MAOA-4R, the most common version in white people. MAOA-4R was more than three times as active as MAOA-2R. [...]

    For instance, low IQ does not increase violent tendencies in men with MAOA-4R, but it does in men with MAOA-3R.

    http://theunsilencedscience.blogspot.com/2012/12/scientists-rediscover-violence-gene.html

    There is not that much difference between Western and Asian IQs, but the difference in the frequency of the low(er)-activity MAOA (3R) allele between those two races is quite significant, and I posit the reason why Western/White societies are less corrupt, etc. than Asian societies: http://www.unz.com/jman/clannishness-the-series-how-it-happened/ and http://www.unz.com/jman/clannishness-the-series-how-it-happened/#comment-1701996

    Studies have found differences in the frequency distribution of variants of the MAOA gene between ethnic groups:[32][33] of the participants, 59% of Black men, 54% of Chinese men, 56% of Maori men, and 34% of Caucasian men carried the 3R allele, while 5.5% of Black men, 0.1% of Caucasian men, and 0.00067% of Asian men carried the 2R allele.[23][32][33][34][35][36][37][38][39][40]

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monoamine_oxidase_A#Aggression_and_the_.22Warrior_gene.22

    See also: http://theunsilencedscience.blogspot.com/2013/01/monoamine-oxidase-bibliography.html

    So the perfect violence soup is low MAO-A, social isolation, high testosterone, being poor and having a low IQ.[...] The 2R version, which produces the least MAO-A, is found in 5.5% of Black men, 0.1% of Caucasian men, and 0.00067% of Asian men. [ A study in Saudi Arabia ( El-Tarras et al.) found 15.6% of a control group carried the very low-activity 2-repeat MAO-A allele: page 3; Table 1; http://www.unz.com/article/americas-white-gun-culture-isnt-killing-blacks-other-blacks-are/#comment-1613821

    How do you explain the high prevalence of MAOA-2R in the Saudi population? Did Saudis select for the ”warrior gene” in the past, and now, through their cousin marriage tradition/custom, these traits are widespread in the population? Do you think MAOA-2R aka the ”warrior gene” is as prevalent in Bangladesh, Pakistan, Afghanistan et al, or is Saudi Arabia an extreme outlier here?

    http://www.unz.com/gnxp/open-thread-732016/#comment-1484306

    Also interesting to this discussion: http://www.unz.com/gnxp/middle-eastern-populations-have-higher-recessive-disease-load/#comment-1515804 and http://www.unz.com/gnxp/indonesian-islam-is-getting-modern-not-conservative/#comment-1649658

    The Stupid Stupidity Surrounding the Warrior Gene, MAOA, is Stupid

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    • Replies: @FKA Max
    One of the ways lack or low impulse control expresses itself in Asians is gambling, despite strong social disapproval of the practice and state bans on it:

    Moving from city to city, he spent countless nights around card tables in the smoke-filled apartments that act as secret casinos in a country where gambling is illegal and regarded by the authorities as a serious social evil.

    Now he has embarked on a different career: persuading China’s growing army of illegal gamblers to think again about what to many has become a destructive addiction.
     
    - http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/china/6942975/Chinas-secret-gambling-problem.html

    Research shows Asians in the U.S. have a disproportionate number of pathological gamblers (i.e. addicted) as compared to the general American population. According to Dr. Timothy Fong, an associate Clinical Professor of Psychiatry at the Semel Institute for Neuroscience and Human Behavior at UCLA and co-director of the UCLA Gambling Studies Program, the rate of gambling addiction ranges from 6 percent to nearly 60 percent, depending on the specific Asian ethnicity (Southeast Asian refugees scoring highest) as opposed to the national rate of 1-2 percent.
     
    - https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/minority-report/201407/asian-gambling-addiction

    Researchers found that only 13% of British Asian children questioned were found to be regular gamblers, compared to 20% overall.

    But Asians were proportionately at greatest risk of developing addictive and problem behaviour, such as lying to friends and family or using money meant for other things.

    Slot machines and betting with friends on cards were the most popular methods of gambling. [...]

    "In the Asian community there is strong social disapproval of gambling in general," said Prof David Forrest, who led the research. "This means the minority who choose to gamble are already overcoming a barrier - already suffering a cost in terms of social disapproval."

    "So probably a lot of Asians who gamble are people drawn to risk-taking whereas among whites many players are not candidates for hardened gambling because they're playing for social reasons rather than a driver in their inner self," he said.
     
    - http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-17049110
    , @FKA Max
    I have a theory, that high(er)-IQ Asians developed all sorts of meditation and mind and body-calming techniques (acupressure, etc.), formulas (herbal tinctures, etc.) and philosophies ( Zen, etc.) to cope with the high percentage/number of low-activity MAOA carriers and the resulting low levels of impulse control in their populations and societies.

    There was a program on the ``warrior gene'' on NatGeoTV a couple of years ago: http://natgeotv.com/ca/inside-the-warrior-gene

    They tested all kinds of different groups of people if they were low-activity MAOA (``warrior gene'') carriers; among the people being tested were also a group of mixed-martial-arts fighters and a group of Buddhist monks. All the martial artists tested negative and all the Buddhist monks tested positive for low-activity MAOA. Looks can be deceiving...

    Warrior Gene - Part 10

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QUI6LpTsaoY

    Jews (2R 1.3%; 3R 62%) carry low-activity MAOA at much higher rates than Whites (2R 0.2%; 3R 36%): http://theunsilencedscience.blogspot.com/2013/01/monoamine-oxidase-bibliography.html Low-activity MAOA is associated with higher levels of aggressiveness and risk-taking
     
    - http://www.unz.com/gnxp/class-status-matters-more-for-success-than-performance/#comment-1507010

    I believe too, that the high prevalence of low-activity MAOA among Jews is the reason why Buddhism, meditation, etc. is so popular with Jews, i.e., a healthy and productive way for high(er)-IQ individuals to deal/cope with their low-activity MAOA:

    Jews are overrepresented in American Buddhism specifically among those whose parents are not Buddhist, and without Buddhist heritage, with between one fifth[125] and 30% of all American Buddhists identifying as Jewish[126] though only 2% of Americans are Jewish. Nicknamed Jubus, an increasing number of American Jews have begun adopting Buddhist spiritual practice, while at the same time continuing to identify with and practice Judaism. Notable American Jewish Buddhists include: Robert Downey, Jr.[127] Allen Ginsberg,[128] Goldie Hawn[129] and daughter Kate Hudson, Steven Seagal, Adam Yauch of the rap group The Beastie Boys, and Garry Shandling. Film makers the Coen Brothers have been influenced by Buddhism as well for a time.[130] Founder of the New York City Marathon, Fred Lebow, dabbled in Buddhism for a brief period.
     
    - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Jews#Buddhism
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  3. The IQ debates remind me of the “instinct” debates of the 1960s and 1970s. The behaviorists insisted that man had no instincts except (possibly) hunger and elimination. Aggression was damnable heresy to be hunted down and rooted out.

    Science did not have the tools to precisely qualify (let alone quantify) what instinctive drives were, but only a fool would deny they existed (and then for political reasons). But instincts are there (inherent drives) and we are slowly identifying them.

    Just as gravity exists even though we do not know how or why (at least it does if WE exist), intelligence exists whether or not we can precisely identify it. It is obviously partly heritable and partly environmental, though that again we cannot quantify (yet), probably partly because it differs by case.

    Bring forth your silly quibbles all you Tweedle Dees and Dums.

    but though mankind persuades
    itself that every weed’s
    a rose,roses(you feel
    certain)will only smile”

    e. e. cummings

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    • Replies: @anonymous coward

    But instincts are there (inherent drives) and we are slowly identifying them.
     
    Instincts aren't inherent drives. By definition, 'instinct' is complex behavior that isn't learned but inherited.

    Humans have only one instinct: the sucking instinct of infants. Inherited emotional responses exist, but they're not instincts -- they're feelings, not complex behavior.
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  4. sturbain says:

    Well done Fred. Such simple questions, such obvious and evident critiques of the IQ ideology. In my view IQ is downstream of culture, which is downstream of religion. Some religions and cultures encourage critical thought and mental activity, others do not. If your cultural history has included generations of grass hut building, and warthog hunting is your most strenuous mental activity, guess what, you won’t do well on an IQ test. If your people have been merchants and bankers for centuries, you’ll ace that test. Sure, there’s undoubtedly some genetic influence, but the IQ guys cook the books to make IQs fit the theory.

    East Indians have a mean IQ of 81? Hilarious. Tell that to your IT department.

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    • Replies: @RadicalCenter
    Not sure why this is hard to understand, but yet again: the people coming here from India and China are a tiny percentage of their countries' populations and are completely UN-representative of the larger populations.

    Tell THAT to your IT department.
    , @Rod1963
    The Indians and Chinese we're getting are the cream of the crop so to speak. These are not offspring from Untouchables or any of the lower castes but the Brahmins. The Chinese kids that populate our colleges are from very successful families back in China. not some offspring from a peasant farmer in Tianjin.

    In addition both come from a culture and families that prize learning as well.

    And those Hindu IT types? Having dealt with many of them over the years, many are just duds hired by white execs on the cheap. The ones that man the call centers in Bombay are just atrocious. They are they very model of organic robots with bad accents.
    , @Negrolphin Pool
    When you start talking about populations of billions of people, selection bias goes nuclear.
    , @The Alarmist

    "East Indians have a mean IQ of 81? Hilarious. Tell that to your IT department."
     
    I would, but I would doubt they could comprehend. Being IT techs does not mean they are particularly bright ... when was the last time you actually interfaced with an IT tech, Western or East Indian?
    , @Sanders
    East Indians have a mean IQ of 81? Hilarious. Tell that to your IT department.

    Shhh I will tell you a secret, most Indians suck at IT, they are hired because they are cheap.
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  5. Life is an IQ test, Fred.

    Forget all the tests. Let’s just look at accomplishments. Accomplishments tests all matter of intelligence.

    Compare a nearly all-white Western city or country (granted, those are getting thin on the ground) to a Mexican or Indian or, even, Chinese city. Compare, say, Salt Lake City to Mexico City. Prague vs Mumbai. What do you see?

    Also, Fred, I appreciate your loyalty to friends and family, but your Mexico and South America references are getting tiresome. Mexico and South America have a significant European-derived population. Is it the Mestizo or the 90%+ Europeans that create the cities that you show in the pictures?

    Look, I’d fight for my kids too, but at some point you need to be realistic.

    Btw, straw man arguments are beneath you, so please stop. Exhibit A:

    “If Latino immigrants really are as stupid as white nationalists hope, then they will always inhabit an underclass and, through intermarriage, enstupidate the American population.”

    Jeez, Fred, loving your own kind doesn’t always mean hating others. You should know that.

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    • Replies: @FKA Max

    Mexico and South America have a significant European-derived population. Is it the Mestizo or the 90%+ Europeans that create the cities that you show in the pictures?
     
    One of the biggest construction companies in South America is called ``Odebrecht'':


    Odebrecht Organization is a Brazilian conglomerate consisting of diversified businesses in the fields of engineering, construction, chemicals and petrochemicals. The company was founded in 1944 in Salvador da Bahia by Norberto Odebrecht, and is now present in South America, Central America, North America, the Caribbean, Africa, Europe and the Middle East. Its leading company is Norberto Odebrecht Construtora.[2]
     
    - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Odebrecht


    Norberto Odebrecht was born on October 9, 1920 in Recife, Brazil. He was the son of the pioneer Emílio Odebrecht, Sr. (de) and a grandson of Emil Odebrecht (de), a German geodetical engineer and cartographer, who emigrated to Brazil in 1856. He studied at the Polytechnic School of Bahia.
     
    - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norberto_Odebrecht

    In 1988 the Odebrecht Foundation began focusing on preparing and grooming adolescents for life due to the realization that adolescence is the period when people consolidate the values and ideas that shape their character.

    By 2000, the Odebrecht Foundation’s work in this area had benefited 500,000 adolescents and 12,000 educators in several Brazilian states. That year, while maintaining its focus on the objectives established in 1988, the Foundation began concentrating its efforts on the Brazilian Northeast – more precisely on areas with low human development indexes that were outside the dynamic hubs of the nation’s economy.[2]
     
    - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Odebrecht_Foundation
    , @Ivy
    Fred lapses into his inner Jared Diamond, with those brilliant locals in New Guinea. Gone native at times.
    , @dc.sunsets
    Did I miss Fred debunking Charles Murray's chronicle of human achievement?
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  6. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer

    I don’t think you could find ONE La Raza activist that’s not skeptical about IQ…

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  7. Songbird says:

    I’ve always viewed the lowball estimate of Irish IQ to be pretty questionable, despite Lynn at least formerly believing in it. Even based on old, conjectural evidence: small geographic distance between Ireland and Britain, paired with a high phenotypic similarity, and mixed history. Irish people have also long been known to have large heads.

    Emmigration from Ireland was mainly pretty nonselective, many American purebloods still exist, yet there is no contemporary marked disparity. No one ever talked about closing the Irish-American test gap, despite heavy involvement of the Irish in politics. There was no Irish affirmative action.

    Now it appears, the genetic distance between Ireland and England is pretty low, so I think that really takes away any power for Ireland as a counterexample.

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    • Replies: @FKA Max

    Irish people have also long been known to have large heads.
     
    This post might be of interest to you:

    [”]Brain size has increased about 350% over human evolution, but we found that blood flow to the brain increased an amazing 600%[”]

    Actually what was observed was the increasing of the foramina carotid diameter. Carotid arteries are smaller in women [ http://stroke.ahajournals.org/content/37/4/1103.full.pdf ] even after adjusting for body and neck size, age, and blood pressure. Any conclusions?” – http://m.phys.org/comments/391793277/

    Could the combination of a large brain and insufficient blood supply to it actually mean less brain power? Is the ratio between blood supply (carotid artery diameter) and brain size the true determinant of intelligence/brain power? Of course, a big brain plus sufficient blood supply (wide carotid artery diameter) would then likely mean very high intelligence/brain nerve cell connectivity/activity.

    Could especially women with large brains/heads, like Oprah, who lack the proper blood supply to power their large brains actually be the least cognitively competent?

    These findings from the study match with and confirm the findings and hypothesis I cited in my above comment on neural connectiveness and neural efficiency: ””We believe this is possibly related to the brain’s need to satisfy increasingly energetic connections between nerve cells that allowed the evolution of complex thinking and learning.”

    To allow our brain to be so intelligent, it must be constantly fed oxygen and nutrients from the blood.”
     
    - http://www.unz.com/jthompson/what-do-iq-researchers-really-think-about-the-flynn-effect/#comment-1706913

    In regards to the Irish, this is just speculation on my part, but I think they are carriers of the low-activity MAOA gene more often than other Northern Europeans. See my post above on lack of impulse control, etc.: http://www.unz.com/freed/iq-a-skeptics-view/#comment-1725649

    See Irish Travelers:

    The birth rate of Irish Travellers has decreased since the 1990s, but they still have one of the highest birth rates in Europe. The birth rate for the Traveller community for the year 2005 was 33.32 per 1,000, possibly the highest birth rate recorded for any community in Europe.

    On average there are ten times more driving fatalities within the Traveller community. At 22%, this represents the most common cause of death among Traveller males. Some 10% of Traveller children die before their second birthday, compared to just 1% of the general population. In Ireland, 2.6% of all deaths in the total population were for people aged under 25, versus 32% for the Travellers.[55][56] In addition, 80% of Travellers die before the age of 65.

    According to the National Traveller Suicide Awareness Project, Traveller men are over six times more likely to commit suicide than the general population.[57]
     
    - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_Travellers#Health

    Ginger Jihadis:

    Although jihadists aren’t in a database somewhere categorized by their hair color, Breitbart did a study which sampled national newspaper coverage of white radical Islam converts between August 2013 and August 2014 to examine the correlation. They discovered that 76 percent of white British converts to radical Islam had red hair. The Daily Mail archived that 69 percent of white Brits who converted to Islam were also gingers. The Mirror and the Telegraph also yielded extremely high numbers, while the Guardian revealed that a whopping 100 percent of the white radical converts had red hair.
     
    - http://ufpnews.com/ginger-jihadis-why-red-heads-are-converting-to-radical-islam/
    , @Ned2
    Everyone knows the Irishman's IQ rises dramatically after the consumption of six to eight pints of Guinness.
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  8. “designed and built” is shorthand for copied from.
    The first Glass walled building was in Liverpool, the first steel framed building was in the US, the roads- remember the word Tarmac- was a tarry invention of a Scott called Macadam.

    Etc, Etc, Etc……

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    • Replies: @Hodag
    Many were designed in Europe and North America. Plans travel well.
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  9. A final question, and I will go for breakfast. What mean IQ is thought necessary to run the infrastructure of modernity? I don’t know, but I would like to.

    Ask Marilyn:

    Marilyn vos Savant ( born August 11, 1946) is an American who is known for having the highest recorded IQ according to the Guinness Book of Records, a competitive category the publication has since retired.

    Marilyn vos Savant was born Marilyn Mach in St. Louis, Missouri, to parents Joseph Mach and Marina vos Savant. Savant says one should keep premarital surnames, with sons taking their fathers’ and daughters their mothers’ The word savant, meaning someone of learning, appears twice in her family: her grandmother’s name was Savant; her grandfather’s, vos Savant. She is of Italian, Czechoslovak, German, and Austrian ancestry, being descended from physicist and philosopher Ernst Mach.

    I was going to write and ask her about WTC BLD #7, but I decided agin it.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marilyn_vos_Savant

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  10. FKA Max says:
    @Citizen of a Silly Country
    Life is an IQ test, Fred.

    Forget all the tests. Let's just look at accomplishments. Accomplishments tests all matter of intelligence.

    Compare a nearly all-white Western city or country (granted, those are getting thin on the ground) to a Mexican or Indian or, even, Chinese city. Compare, say, Salt Lake City to Mexico City. Prague vs Mumbai. What do you see?


    Also, Fred, I appreciate your loyalty to friends and family, but your Mexico and South America references are getting tiresome. Mexico and South America have a significant European-derived population. Is it the Mestizo or the 90%+ Europeans that create the cities that you show in the pictures?

    Look, I'd fight for my kids too, but at some point you need to be realistic.

    Btw, straw man arguments are beneath you, so please stop. Exhibit A:

    "If Latino immigrants really are as stupid as white nationalists hope, then they will always inhabit an underclass and, through intermarriage, enstupidate the American population."

    Jeez, Fred, loving your own kind doesn't always mean hating others. You should know that.

    Mexico and South America have a significant European-derived population. Is it the Mestizo or the 90%+ Europeans that create the cities that you show in the pictures?

    One of the biggest construction companies in South America is called “Odebrecht”:

    Odebrecht Organization is a Brazilian conglomerate consisting of diversified businesses in the fields of engineering, construction, chemicals and petrochemicals. The company was founded in 1944 in Salvador da Bahia by Norberto Odebrecht, and is now present in South America, Central America, North America, the Caribbean, Africa, Europe and the Middle East. Its leading company is Norberto Odebrecht Construtora.[2]

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Odebrecht

    Norberto Odebrecht was born on October 9, 1920 in Recife, Brazil. He was the son of the pioneer Emílio Odebrecht, Sr. (de) and a grandson of Emil Odebrecht (de), a German geodetical engineer and cartographer, who emigrated to Brazil in 1856. He studied at the Polytechnic School of Bahia.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norberto_Odebrecht

    In 1988 the Odebrecht Foundation began focusing on preparing and grooming adolescents for life due to the realization that adolescence is the period when people consolidate the values and ideas that shape their character.

    By 2000, the Odebrecht Foundation’s work in this area had benefited 500,000 adolescents and 12,000 educators in several Brazilian states. That year, while maintaining its focus on the objectives established in 1988, the Foundation began concentrating its efforts on the Brazilian Northeast – more precisely on areas with low human development indexes that were outside the dynamic hubs of the nation’s economy.[2]

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Odebrecht_Foundation

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  11. Gene Su says:

    I think the classic mistake that racialists make is to assume that IQ/intelligence is only determined by one’s genes. Long post follows.

    I am a first-gen East Asian. I believe that there are other independent variables that IQ depends on such as discipline, attitude, culture, and emotional state. While environment does effect IQ it is also true that culture affects environment.

    Here’s what I think about blacks: I don’t think they are dumb at all. I think the reason they don’t like to learn in school is because they watch a lot of TV telling them that they don’t have to or are not supposed to learn anything in school. Just look at the 80′s hit sitcom Saved By the Bell. The nerd of the group, Screech, is mocked furiously. The other two males are held in higher regard. Slater was a Jock. Zack was an ultra social slacker. Ultra social slackers and jocks … blacks fit into those two archtypes. Note that Zack and Slater are white.

    One last note: I don’t see much difference between rowdy blacks and the rowdy whites who gave me a hard time during my public school days, even if rowdy whites are “smarter” by one standard deviation. If things don’t turn around, there is gonna be a white underclass.

    http://www.theamericanconservative.com/dreher/honey-boo-boo-nation/

    Read More
    • Replies: @Negrolphin Pool
    Start downtown. Drive between one and two miles, heading northeast on Gratiot St. Take any left.

    Keep driving until you change your mind.
    , @attilathehen
    You're an Asian. You don't belong in the West. The West is Caucasian, European. You have slanted eyes, black hair, yellowish skin. You are physically not acceptable. You can use your IQ in Asia.
    , @Lyov Myshkin
    If your theory was true then surely we'd see some sign of intellectual achievement in history before the arrival of the malign influence of 'Saved By the Bell', no?

    Do we find this?
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  12. The piece should be retitled, “IQ: The Ignoramus’s View.”

    This is a confused rant that cherry-picks exceptions to a general rule. And the rule is this: Countries with higher-IQ populations (based on IQ, PISA, TIMSS, PIRLS results) have better health, higher GDP, more wealth (per capita), more high-tech exports, more Nobel laureates, longer lifespans, more and better quality education, less crime, less AIDS, fewer homicides, more economic freedom, more religious freedom, more democracy, stronger property rights, and less corruption.

    Next time, before ranting about national IQs, try skimming articles by Rindermann, Lynn, or Meisneberg.

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    • Agree: Realist
    • Replies: @Rod1963
    And all those high IQ white countries are dying, basically committing suicide on scale not seen since early Imperial Rome. The only ones that are holding on are those states composed of lower IQ types, namely Poles, Russians and Hungarians.

    IQ isn't the end all. Here in the U.S. you have the Silicon Valley elite (really smart white nerds) that have embraced every toxic liberal meme in existence including demographic obliteration. Same with the whites on Wall Street embracing the same toxic crap. Tell me again where brains fits in with embracing idiocy that any white working stiff would know better. It's aptly demonstrated with college educated whites and white professionals that voted for Hillary whose agenda was no different than Merkel's.

    Same in Europe. Mass insanity among the intellectuals.

    IQ isn't enough to keep the system going, especially in the West.

    Problem is the cognitive elites of the West jettisoned the one thing that kept everything together - culture and replaced it with post-modernism and it's derivatives that only offer unrestrained egomania and the cold death.

    , @The Unrecorded Man
    I liked your comment. I have one question - and it is a genuine question, not a snide observation. Wouldn't it possible to say:

    And the rule is this: Countries with more economic freedom have better health, higher GDP, more wealth (per capita), more high-tech exports, more Nobel laureates, longer lifespans, more and better quality education, less crime, less AIDS, fewer homicides, higher-IQ populations (based on IQ, PISA, TIMSS, PIRLS results) etc.

    I chose 'economic freedom' at random. I could have chosen anything in your list. My question is, what suggests that IQ is upstream rather than downstream of all the good things you listed?

    And on a slightly different point, what do you think about Fred Reed's idea that IQ and intelligence are very different things? He admits that blacks have low IQs and have achieved next to nothing. However, I see his point that a lack of intelligence is less easy to spot in, say, Indians, Mexicans and South Americans, despite their measured low IQ.
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  13. @sturbain
    Well done Fred. Such simple questions, such obvious and evident critiques of the IQ ideology. In my view IQ is downstream of culture, which is downstream of religion. Some religions and cultures encourage critical thought and mental activity, others do not. If your cultural history has included generations of grass hut building, and warthog hunting is your most strenuous mental activity, guess what, you won't do well on an IQ test. If your people have been merchants and bankers for centuries, you'll ace that test. Sure, there's undoubtedly some genetic influence, but the IQ guys cook the books to make IQs fit the theory.

    East Indians have a mean IQ of 81? Hilarious. Tell that to your IT department.

    Not sure why this is hard to understand, but yet again: the people coming here from India and China are a tiny percentage of their countries’ populations and are completely UN-representative of the larger populations.

    Tell THAT to your IT department.

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    • Replies: @macilrae
    Right. They are like the high energy molecules that can take off from the body of a liquid to become vapor - thus depleting its mean energy (i.e. causing it to cool by evaporation). Where this applies to immigrants, those who take to the air are by no means always the ones you'd like to welcome: for example the majority of mainland Chinese are the offspring of party officials who were raised up on under-table money.
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  14. As always, with Fred, everything is about defending the honor of those poor unfairly slandered Mexicans.

    Jeez, I don’t know. Risking your life and paying some coyote your life savings to ferry you across the desert, where you may die of exposure, dehydration or wild animal attacks smacks of something a low IQ person would do.

    And some of the most notorious Mexican criminals in the Estados Unidos have made this particular trip five, six, seven times.

    But then, Trump was right. We’re not getting their best.

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  15. Ivy says:
    @Citizen of a Silly Country
    Life is an IQ test, Fred.

    Forget all the tests. Let's just look at accomplishments. Accomplishments tests all matter of intelligence.

    Compare a nearly all-white Western city or country (granted, those are getting thin on the ground) to a Mexican or Indian or, even, Chinese city. Compare, say, Salt Lake City to Mexico City. Prague vs Mumbai. What do you see?


    Also, Fred, I appreciate your loyalty to friends and family, but your Mexico and South America references are getting tiresome. Mexico and South America have a significant European-derived population. Is it the Mestizo or the 90%+ Europeans that create the cities that you show in the pictures?

    Look, I'd fight for my kids too, but at some point you need to be realistic.

    Btw, straw man arguments are beneath you, so please stop. Exhibit A:

    "If Latino immigrants really are as stupid as white nationalists hope, then they will always inhabit an underclass and, through intermarriage, enstupidate the American population."

    Jeez, Fred, loving your own kind doesn't always mean hating others. You should know that.

    Fred lapses into his inner Jared Diamond, with those brilliant locals in New Guinea. Gone native at times.

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    • Agree: syonredux, bomag
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  16. phil says:

    Fred,

    Love your writing, but the demolition of strawmen and some of the sloppy work of Richard Lynn does not make for a very strong argument. A few points:

    At a country level, Rindermann found that the correlation between IQ and student achievement is more than 0.8 — a pretty good correlation, but with plenty of exceptions to talk about.

    The Irish score of 87 was published in 1973. The test-takers were children from ages 6-13. In his work, Lynn assumes that the Flynn effect operated uniformly across countries, but given the extraordinary growth of Ireland from the 1970s to the early 2000s, the Flynn Effect was probably much stronger in Ireland than most other countries. It does indeed seem questionable to make conclusions about the general intelligence of the Irish from the 1973 test score.

    The Colombian score of 84 was Lynn’s estimate of the IQ of the Native Americans there. The test-takers were 4 years old. Twenty percent of the Colombian people were ethnically European and 5 percent were ethnically African. Based on these data, with 4 times as many Europeans as Africans, plus many mestizos with a lot of European admixture, it is indeed hard to believe that 84 represents the general intelligence of Colombians. Perhaps a better question for you to address is the extent to which the architects and engineers for those buildings in Bogota had Amerindian as opposed to European admixture.

    In their paper, “Admixture in the Americas,” Fuerst and Kierkegaard provided much evidence (Colombia included) that cause-and-effect runs for the most part from Race to IQ and then to Socioeconomic Status.

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  17. I’m very old fashioned on race relations. I agree with what might be called a White Nationalist, even a Segregationist, agenda. However, I also think that HBD and its derivative, IQ, is precisely the worst ground on which to make this case. Pseudo-scientific malarkey is no foundation on which to build an ethno-nationalist ethic.

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    • Replies: @Citizen of a Silly Country
    I wouldn't call IQ research malarkey. It's pretty useful, if imperfect.

    But, yes, I agree that fixating on IQ as the only measure of human beings or groups isn't right. I don't want to live in a 90%+ white country because our average IQ is higher or lower than other groups. I simply want to live with my own kind because we understand each other in a way that we could never understand other groups.

    Whether other groups have higher or lower IQs or achievements doesn't much matter to me. A 95% white country (oh, what a wonderful thought) with 10 million people could improve its overall IQ by importing 10 million 130+ IQ Chinese, but that'd be silly.

    I don't want to live in a country without blacks and browns because I hate them. I wish them well. I want to live in a white country for the same reason I care for and understand my children more than I care for and understand other people's children. I wouldn't replace one of my kids for a high IQ Indian kid, so why would I let them into my country.
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  18. FKA Max says:
    @Songbird
    I've always viewed the lowball estimate of Irish IQ to be pretty questionable, despite Lynn at least formerly believing in it. Even based on old, conjectural evidence: small geographic distance between Ireland and Britain, paired with a high phenotypic similarity, and mixed history. Irish people have also long been known to have large heads.

    Emmigration from Ireland was mainly pretty nonselective, many American purebloods still exist, yet there is no contemporary marked disparity. No one ever talked about closing the Irish-American test gap, despite heavy involvement of the Irish in politics. There was no Irish affirmative action.

    Now it appears, the genetic distance between Ireland and England is pretty low, so I think that really takes away any power for Ireland as a counterexample.

    Irish people have also long been known to have large heads.

    This post might be of interest to you:

    [”]Brain size has increased about 350% over human evolution, but we found that blood flow to the brain increased an amazing 600%[”]

    Actually what was observed was the increasing of the foramina carotid diameter. Carotid arteries are smaller in women [ http://m.phys.org/comments/391793277/

    Could the combination of a large brain and insufficient blood supply to it actually mean less brain power? Is the ratio between blood supply (carotid artery diameter) and brain size the true determinant of intelligence/brain power? Of course, a big brain plus sufficient blood supply (wide carotid artery diameter) would then likely mean very high intelligence/brain nerve cell connectivity/activity.

    Could especially women with large brains/heads, like Oprah, who lack the proper blood supply to power their large brains actually be the least cognitively competent?

    These findings from the study match with and confirm the findings and hypothesis I cited in my above comment on neural connectiveness and neural efficiency: ””We believe this is possibly related to the brain’s need to satisfy increasingly energetic connections between nerve cells that allowed the evolution of complex thinking and learning.”

    To allow our brain to be so intelligent, it must be constantly fed oxygen and nutrients from the blood.”

    http://www.unz.com/jthompson/what-do-iq-researchers-really-think-about-the-flynn-effect/#comment-1706913

    In regards to the Irish, this is just speculation on my part, but I think they are carriers of the low-activity MAOA gene more often than other Northern Europeans. See my post above on lack of impulse control, etc.: http://www.unz.com/freed/iq-a-skeptics-view/#comment-1725649

    See Irish Travelers:

    The birth rate of Irish Travellers has decreased since the 1990s, but they still have one of the highest birth rates in Europe. The birth rate for the Traveller community for the year 2005 was 33.32 per 1,000, possibly the highest birth rate recorded for any community in Europe.

    On average there are ten times more driving fatalities within the Traveller community. At 22%, this represents the most common cause of death among Traveller males. Some 10% of Traveller children die before their second birthday, compared to just 1% of the general population. In Ireland, 2.6% of all deaths in the total population were for people aged under 25, versus 32% for the Travellers.[55][56] In addition, 80% of Travellers die before the age of 65.

    According to the National Traveller Suicide Awareness Project, Traveller men are over six times more likely to commit suicide than the general population.[57]

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_Travellers#Health

    Ginger Jihadis:

    Although jihadists aren’t in a database somewhere categorized by their hair color, Breitbart did a study which sampled national newspaper coverage of white radical Islam converts between August 2013 and August 2014 to examine the correlation. They discovered that 76 percent of white British converts to radical Islam had red hair. The Daily Mail archived that 69 percent of white Brits who converted to Islam were also gingers. The Mirror and the Telegraph also yielded extremely high numbers, while the Guardian revealed that a whopping 100 percent of the white radical converts had red hair.

    http://ufpnews.com/ginger-jihadis-why-red-heads-are-converting-to-radical-islam/

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    • Replies: @EH
    All interesting. It should be noted though, that the higher the intelligence the lower the brain metabolism increase for any particular task. Intelligence is not muscular effort, but finesse.
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  19. Rod1963 says:
    @sturbain
    Well done Fred. Such simple questions, such obvious and evident critiques of the IQ ideology. In my view IQ is downstream of culture, which is downstream of religion. Some religions and cultures encourage critical thought and mental activity, others do not. If your cultural history has included generations of grass hut building, and warthog hunting is your most strenuous mental activity, guess what, you won't do well on an IQ test. If your people have been merchants and bankers for centuries, you'll ace that test. Sure, there's undoubtedly some genetic influence, but the IQ guys cook the books to make IQs fit the theory.

    East Indians have a mean IQ of 81? Hilarious. Tell that to your IT department.

    The Indians and Chinese we’re getting are the cream of the crop so to speak. These are not offspring from Untouchables or any of the lower castes but the Brahmins. The Chinese kids that populate our colleges are from very successful families back in China. not some offspring from a peasant farmer in Tianjin.

    In addition both come from a culture and families that prize learning as well.

    And those Hindu IT types? Having dealt with many of them over the years, many are just duds hired by white execs on the cheap. The ones that man the call centers in Bombay are just atrocious. They are they very model of organic robots with bad accents.

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  20. Rod1963 says:
    @Fred, You're Not a Skeptic
    The piece should be retitled, "IQ: The Ignoramus's View."

    This is a confused rant that cherry-picks exceptions to a general rule. And the rule is this: Countries with higher-IQ populations (based on IQ, PISA, TIMSS, PIRLS results) have better health, higher GDP, more wealth (per capita), more high-tech exports, more Nobel laureates, longer lifespans, more and better quality education, less crime, less AIDS, fewer homicides, more economic freedom, more religious freedom, more democracy, stronger property rights, and less corruption.

    Next time, before ranting about national IQs, try skimming articles by Rindermann, Lynn, or Meisneberg.

    And all those high IQ white countries are dying, basically committing suicide on scale not seen since early Imperial Rome. The only ones that are holding on are those states composed of lower IQ types, namely Poles, Russians and Hungarians.

    IQ isn’t the end all. Here in the U.S. you have the Silicon Valley elite (really smart white nerds) that have embraced every toxic liberal meme in existence including demographic obliteration. Same with the whites on Wall Street embracing the same toxic crap. Tell me again where brains fits in with embracing idiocy that any white working stiff would know better. It’s aptly demonstrated with college educated whites and white professionals that voted for Hillary whose agenda was no different than Merkel’s.

    Same in Europe. Mass insanity among the intellectuals.

    IQ isn’t enough to keep the system going, especially in the West.

    Problem is the cognitive elites of the West jettisoned the one thing that kept everything together – culture and replaced it with post-modernism and it’s derivatives that only offer unrestrained egomania and the cold death.

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    • Agree: Talha, CanSpeccy, Stonehands
    • Replies: @Simon in London
    Poles, Russians and Hungarians are all high IQ. The only Europeans scoring much below 100 are in the Balkans, countries that suffered badly under the Ottomans.
    , @antyrod
    @Rod1963

    " namely Poles, Russians and Hungarians."

    Namely Rod you are too stupid to hold IQ of 100. Poland & Hungary has higher avg IQ then USA, while Russia is just 1 point below.
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  21. @sturbain
    Well done Fred. Such simple questions, such obvious and evident critiques of the IQ ideology. In my view IQ is downstream of culture, which is downstream of religion. Some religions and cultures encourage critical thought and mental activity, others do not. If your cultural history has included generations of grass hut building, and warthog hunting is your most strenuous mental activity, guess what, you won't do well on an IQ test. If your people have been merchants and bankers for centuries, you'll ace that test. Sure, there's undoubtedly some genetic influence, but the IQ guys cook the books to make IQs fit the theory.

    East Indians have a mean IQ of 81? Hilarious. Tell that to your IT department.

    When you start talking about populations of billions of people, selection bias goes nuclear.

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  22. @Gene Su
    I think the classic mistake that racialists make is to assume that IQ/intelligence is only determined by one's genes. Long post follows.

    I am a first-gen East Asian. I believe that there are other independent variables that IQ depends on such as discipline, attitude, culture, and emotional state. While environment does effect IQ it is also true that culture affects environment.

    Here's what I think about blacks: I don't think they are dumb at all. I think the reason they don't like to learn in school is because they watch a lot of TV telling them that they don't have to or are not supposed to learn anything in school. Just look at the 80's hit sitcom Saved By the Bell. The nerd of the group, Screech, is mocked furiously. The other two males are held in higher regard. Slater was a Jock. Zack was an ultra social slacker. Ultra social slackers and jocks ... blacks fit into those two archtypes. Note that Zack and Slater are white.

    One last note: I don't see much difference between rowdy blacks and the rowdy whites who gave me a hard time during my public school days, even if rowdy whites are "smarter" by one standard deviation. If things don't turn around, there is gonna be a white underclass.

    http://www.theamericanconservative.com/dreher/honey-boo-boo-nation/

    Start downtown. Drive between one and two miles, heading northeast on Gratiot St. Take any left.

    Keep driving until you change your mind.

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    • Agree: MBlanc46
    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    I'm tempted to take this seriously. Record a video of this?
    , @Dwright
    "Start downtown. Drive between one and two miles, heading northeast on Gratiot St. Take any left.

    Keep driving until you change your mind."

    Yes, been working around there the last month. No, I will not be taking any impromptu tours. I know Detroit and it's denizens far too well.
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  23. Realist says:

    “For example, if the population of India on average really is below borderline retardation, the country can never amount to anything. If Latino immigrants really are as stupid as white nationalists hope, then they will always inhabit an underclass and, through intermarriage, enstupidate the American population. IQists–those who believe that IQ is a reliable measure of intelligence–insist that intelligence is largely genetic, which it obviously is, and that IQ tests reliably measure it. The latter is doubtful.”

    Reality is hard/impossible for liberals to accept.

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  24. Folks from India (or anywhere else) may be neither dumber nor smarter, but H1Bs are definitely cheaper to hire than Americans for the same work.

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    • Agree: frayedthread
    • Replies: @The Grate Deign
    To speak in generalities about working with south Asian H1B guys, it's like working with geniuses who can't fix their own bicycles. They end up being deployed in jobs where engineering calculations are required -- and they seem to do these quite well -- but if you need a guy who can go to the field and fix the turbine controls, you end up sending a white man or north Asian man. Again, those are generalities, but these things recur so regularly that people who work in production industry know it's true.
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  25. @another fred
    The IQ debates remind me of the "instinct" debates of the 1960s and 1970s. The behaviorists insisted that man had no instincts except (possibly) hunger and elimination. Aggression was damnable heresy to be hunted down and rooted out.

    Science did not have the tools to precisely qualify (let alone quantify) what instinctive drives were, but only a fool would deny they existed (and then for political reasons). But instincts are there (inherent drives) and we are slowly identifying them.

    Just as gravity exists even though we do not know how or why (at least it does if WE exist), intelligence exists whether or not we can precisely identify it. It is obviously partly heritable and partly environmental, though that again we cannot quantify (yet), probably partly because it differs by case.

    Bring forth your silly quibbles all you Tweedle Dees and Dums.

    but though mankind persuades
    itself that every weed's
    a rose,roses(you feel
    certain)will only smile”

    e. e. cummings
     

    But instincts are there (inherent drives) and we are slowly identifying them.

    Instincts aren’t inherent drives. By definition, ‘instinct’ is complex behavior that isn’t learned but inherited.

    Humans have only one instinct: the sucking instinct of infants. Inherited emotional responses exist, but they’re not instincts — they’re feelings, not complex behavior.

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    • Replies: @another fred
    Back in the 60s again (sing to the tune of "Back in the saddle").

    Definition of instinct (from Merriam Webster)

    1 : a natural or inherent aptitude, impulse, or capacity

    2 a : a largely inheritable and unalterable tendency of an organism to make a complex and specific response to environmental stimuli without involving reason
    b : behavior that is mediated by reactions below the conscious level
     

    Yes, the people who lost the argument try to narrow the definition (2.a) to say, "See, we were right," but plenty of scientists go right on using 1a or 2b.
    , @Jus' Sayin'...

    "...Humans have only one instinct: the sucking instinct of infants...."
     
    WRONG! Ask someone who's ever had any intense physical contact with another human being. The very first time that happened that person undoubtedly felt an irresistible urge to grind their pelvis against that of their partner, even in the absence of training or the presence of "moral" training that suggested such behavior is wrong. This is exactly equivalent to the instinct towards lordosis exhibited in rats, mice, and other mammals.

    I could describe a score of other human instincts but I'll leave that as an exercise for the ill informed student who raised the issue.

    , @Che Guava

    Humans have only one instinct: the sucking instinct of infants.
     
    It is 'suckling', not 'sucking'. Human babies are born with several instinctual behaviours. All but that one disappear within 48 or so hours of birth.

    The most striking was grip, a newborn, soon after birth, generally has a grip strong enough to support its own weight.

    There are three or four others.
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  26. If Latino immigrants really are as stupid as white nationalists hope, then they will always inhabit an underclass and, through intermarriage, enstupidate the American population

    They are, believe in me…

    You’re over-generalizing ”latino” middle classes you see in Mexico as if all ”latinos” were like that and only inequality were real issue that prevent them to become ”middle-classe-isch”.

    You’re anticipating things here ”… throught intermarriage, enstupidate the americans”

    Yes, stupidify some population seems more easy to be done than otherwise.

    To say

    ”they are just stupid” is a stupid thing to say, but at least to sustain a civilization they has proved many times they are not capable.

    Avg white american are partial to predominantly irrational, now just think about ”avg latinos”, some degree below.

    Think about your avg white american you dispise and think about them some step below…

    As usually happen, people tend to be wrongly collectivistic to deal with individuality/personal intimacy AND individualistic to deal with collective well-being.

    In other words, people are, on avg, more concerned about what you do in your intimacy than if you need something, if you need some help, as good real friends usually to do one each other.

    Even ”middle classes” whatever place they are already tend to not to be positively impressive, and i’m also talking about moral issues, real moral/decisive issues, what most people here like to say ”intelligence”.

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    • Replies: @Santoculto
    ''”they are just stupid” is a stupid thing to say, but at least to sustain a civilization they has proved many times they are not capable.''

    If you sterilize criminal ones, high and low functioning, maybe we can talk about it....
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  27. TheJester says:

    Years ago I read an article about Mensa … that a surprisingly large percent of members are not economically or professionally successful. Indeed, many of them have problems managing the practical affairs of their lives, simple things such as keeping track of funds in their checkbooks that we might otherwise attribute to populations with lower IQs.

    I’ve also run into many people in my 69 years who had reputations for brilliance. However, quite a few of them had “means-ends” problems. They might be clever enough to manipulate their way to the economic and professional heights … but they had serious problems with choosing proper ends or goals in life. They had serious ethics issues.

    Hence, I decided to call these people clever not intelligent, lest we forget that sociopaths also have a reputation for extreme cleverness. An intelligent person balances means and ends.

    So, is IQ a measure of cleverness or intelligence or both … or neither?

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  28. IQists–those who believe that IQ is a reliable measure of intelligence–insist that intelligence is largely genetic, which it obviously is, and that IQ tests reliably measure it. The latter is doubtful.

    IQ measure reasonably well the size of intelligence, say, the size of cognitive aspect of the intelligence, because this don’t measure the entire size, also of psychological aspect of the intelligence.

    BUT

    measure is something

    analyse is other thing

    analysis is usually a qualitative way to understand something…
    measurement is isually a quantitative/size–d way to capture the physical or comparative dimensions of something…

    both are important, but the first is decisive.

    I can know the size of the planet earth but if i don’t know how the planet earth is in all their diversity, multiple nuances of all types, this NUMBER will be at the best sterile.

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  29. anon says: • Disclaimer

    Obviously they are not sending us their best!

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  30. For example, American blacks, the Irish, and Mexicans had IQs accepted by the list as being 85, 86, and 87 respectively—almost identical. It seemed odd to me that identical IQs had produced (a) the on-going academic disaster of American blacks (b) an upper Third World country running the usual infrastructure of telecommunications, medicine, airlines, and so on, and (c) a First World European country.

    The first case is well documented, consistent throughout space and time, at least during the XX century but even with this aparent consistency their demographic dynamics also has been great, namely the huge dysgenics with the poorest, dumbest and criminal of blacks having many kids and being supported by social assistence. But based on large sample-studies comparing black, white and other groups their avg scores around 85 has been solid since the first comparative studies.

    The second case is a misterious, but keep in mind that Ireland has been a place of huge demographic changing.

    A one million died during the XIX century, millions immigrated to the other anglo countries and with the entry to the EU other demographic movimentation happened in Ireland, for example, many irish descendents and irish citizens come back to this country, as well the poor administration or control of this tests during their first applications maybe it’s difficult to trust in the first scores. Today we have a similar case of very lower scores of argentinian and brazilian students in PISA tests, i know they, specially brazilians, are not super scholastic clevers, but this scores seems are too lower to be true.

    IQ or scholastic tests are not infallible to produce correct informations. Many times they don’t.

    Yes, as usual every human intellectual niche have potential to become a cult, and IQ is not different.

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  31. Photo: Cartagena, Colombia. Do you really believe that this city was designed and built by people with a mean IQ of 84?

    You’re not saying it seriously do you are*

    This city has been projected/designed by clever people (10% of colombian people who are part of ”cognitive elite”) and builty by bricklayers [yes, avg IQ around 80's], ;)

    That is six points below Mexicans, and below American blacks? As a matter of logic, it follows that if people of IQ 84 can design, build, and operate a city with all the credentials of modernity, so can a population of IQ 85.

    They don’t honey…

    It’s either both can, or neither can, or something is wrong with the purported IQs. For what it’s worth, my wife and I recently spent a month traveling widely in the country.

    Nothing wrong with that, it’s wrong with your observations.

    No sign of stupidity.

    I found it in your observations.

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  32. @anonymous coward

    But instincts are there (inherent drives) and we are slowly identifying them.
     
    Instincts aren't inherent drives. By definition, 'instinct' is complex behavior that isn't learned but inherited.

    Humans have only one instinct: the sucking instinct of infants. Inherited emotional responses exist, but they're not instincts -- they're feelings, not complex behavior.

    Back in the 60s again (sing to the tune of “Back in the saddle”).

    Definition of instinct (from Merriam Webster)

    1 : a natural or inherent aptitude, impulse, or capacity

    2 a : a largely inheritable and unalterable tendency of an organism to make a complex and specific response to environmental stimuli without involving reason
    b : behavior that is mediated by reactions below the conscious level

    Yes, the people who lost the argument try to narrow the definition (2.a) to say, “See, we were right,” but plenty of scientists go right on using 1a or 2b.

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  33. @sturbain
    Well done Fred. Such simple questions, such obvious and evident critiques of the IQ ideology. In my view IQ is downstream of culture, which is downstream of religion. Some religions and cultures encourage critical thought and mental activity, others do not. If your cultural history has included generations of grass hut building, and warthog hunting is your most strenuous mental activity, guess what, you won't do well on an IQ test. If your people have been merchants and bankers for centuries, you'll ace that test. Sure, there's undoubtedly some genetic influence, but the IQ guys cook the books to make IQs fit the theory.

    East Indians have a mean IQ of 81? Hilarious. Tell that to your IT department.

    “East Indians have a mean IQ of 81? Hilarious. Tell that to your IT department.”

    I would, but I would doubt they could comprehend. Being IT techs does not mean they are particularly bright … when was the last time you actually interfaced with an IT tech, Western or East Indian?

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  34. Meanwhile, it turns out that, heh, the Irish IQ has risen 13 points to 100, exactly what one would expect of a white European nation. (It is sometimes put at 93, arrived at by averaging the 86 and the 100, horrible methodology since if two tests differed so much, then one or both must be nonsense

    You answered your own question.

    Seems impossible intelligence change so much in very few years.

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  35. @anonymous coward

    But instincts are there (inherent drives) and we are slowly identifying them.
     
    Instincts aren't inherent drives. By definition, 'instinct' is complex behavior that isn't learned but inherited.

    Humans have only one instinct: the sucking instinct of infants. Inherited emotional responses exist, but they're not instincts -- they're feelings, not complex behavior.

    “…Humans have only one instinct: the sucking instinct of infants….”

    WRONG! Ask someone who’s ever had any intense physical contact with another human being. The very first time that happened that person undoubtedly felt an irresistible urge to grind their pelvis against that of their partner, even in the absence of training or the presence of “moral” training that suggested such behavior is wrong. This is exactly equivalent to the instinct towards lordosis exhibited in rats, mice, and other mammals.

    I could describe a score of other human instincts but I’ll leave that as an exercise for the ill informed student who raised the issue.

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    • Replies: @anonymous coward

    The very first time that happened that person undoubtedly felt an irresistible urge to grind their pelvis against that of their partner, even in the absence of training or the presence of “moral” training that suggested such behavior is wrong.
     
    Again: feelings aren't instinct, by definition. Grinding also isn't an instinct. Even walking isn't an instinct.

    Building nests, or beaver dams, or suckling is an instinct. Something is an instinct if a) it is something you're born with, and not something you have to learn or practice, and b) if it is complex, structured behavior in a series of steps.

    You're confusing instinct with reflexes and unconscious behavior. Reflexes are something you're born with, but they aren't complex behavior. (I.e., jerking your hand when you touch a stove, or moving your pelvis during sex.)

    Unconscious behavior (walking, catching a ball or riding a bicycle) can be complex, but you're not born with it. (Kids won't learn to walk by themselves if left alone, see feral kids.)
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  36. @Santoculto

    If Latino immigrants really are as stupid as white nationalists hope, then they will always inhabit an underclass and, through intermarriage, enstupidate the American population
     
    They are, believe in me...

    You're over-generalizing ''latino'' middle classes you see in Mexico as if all ''latinos'' were like that and only inequality were real issue that prevent them to become ''middle-classe-isch''.

    You're anticipating things here ''... throught intermarriage, enstupidate the americans''

    Yes, stupidify some population seems more easy to be done than otherwise.

    To say

    ''they are just stupid'' is a stupid thing to say, but at least to sustain a civilization they has proved many times they are not capable.

    Avg white american are partial to predominantly irrational, now just think about ''avg latinos'', some degree below.

    Think about your avg white american you dispise and think about them some step below...

    As usually happen, people tend to be wrongly collectivistic to deal with individuality/personal intimacy AND individualistic to deal with collective well-being.

    In other words, people are, on avg, more concerned about what you do in your intimacy than if you need something, if you need some help, as good real friends usually to do one each other.

    Even ''middle classes'' whatever place they are already tend to not to be positively impressive, and i'm also talking about moral issues, real moral/decisive issues, what most people here like to say ''intelligence''.

    ””they are just stupid” is a stupid thing to say, but at least to sustain a civilization they has proved many times they are not capable.”

    If you sterilize criminal ones, high and low functioning, maybe we can talk about it….

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  37. For that matter, one reads that Argentine scores rose 22 points between 1964 and 1998. Meanwhile Jewish scores and academic achievement in America, astonishingly high a couple of generations back, have fallen precipitately. Since genetics cannot explain rapid changes in IQ, we conclude that a thirteen-point (or 22 point) change can be entirely due to non-genetic effects—diet, culture, ineffective tests, what have you.

    Seems psychometrics before globalization era was a very mutually atomized community, so it’s very difficult to believe that most of the test applications was perfectly administered and standardized.

    Only USA seems have provided general good control on all this variables since beggining of XX century.

    Human factor seems a huge factor to explain this variations. By now with better control and global laws in application and standardization i believe this errors will be reduced but there are other interesting ways that also can be good to analyse and compare human groups of all types.

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  38. ”Fifteen-year-olds, a few years ago, probably genetically indistinguishable from the foregoing. First-generation middle-class. One a Mensa shoe-in if she applied. None of them white, not from rich families. Do you really, really think that perfect health, eleven years of schooling, and exposure to the internet do not give them an advantage in IQ over illiterate unhealthy peasants?”

    Nothing proved. I believe people are whatever they want, with or without environmental advantages, with or without culture, even in feral states, without a language…

    Our real intelligence is our skin, as well the clothes is the culture we are.

    Freed, believe in me, there are biological variation of proclivities within families.

    Maybe a highly intelligent relative Was born in this family a century before, without ” Flynn Effect”, without internet, without access to education.

    Curious people, whatever the place they born, always think their glasses are not full enough.

    ”Advantage in IQ”

    maybe, but

    and about intelligence*

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  39. Anyone even vaguely familiar with the intellectual, artistic, and musical history of India is going to think, “What are you guys smoking?”

    Most of this achievements were done thousand centuries before, ”India” have a millenial civilization.

    But yes, India as a gigantic demographic ocean is unlikely to has been very well ”analysed” via psychometric ways or any other at least by now.

    Indians, i mean, avg ones, appear to be more orderly than latin americans, with less ”warrior-genes” among them and with little higher avg intelligence size/IQ.

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  40. macilrae says:
    @RadicalCenter
    Not sure why this is hard to understand, but yet again: the people coming here from India and China are a tiny percentage of their countries' populations and are completely UN-representative of the larger populations.

    Tell THAT to your IT department.

    Right. They are like the high energy molecules that can take off from the body of a liquid to become vapor – thus depleting its mean energy (i.e. causing it to cool by evaporation). Where this applies to immigrants, those who take to the air are by no means always the ones you’d like to welcome: for example the majority of mainland Chinese are the offspring of party officials who were raised up on under-table money.

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  41. There immediately springs to everyone’s mind that Indian kids dominate the Scripps National Spelling Bee. The IQist response is that only the smartest Indian kids come to the US. Perhaps, but the smartest American kids are already here, aren’t they? And since the kids got their visas based on the brains of their parents, shouldn’t they be regressing to the (dismal) mean?

    Now a very good point. Yes smartest american kids is there but this don’t disprove that has happened a filtering of intelligence among indian immigrants.

    And in the end all this CONTESTS about ”who are more intelligent to spelling” or any other contest still is not what has done western civilization greater…

    creativity.

    When experts on intelligence stop to pay exclusive attention to ”what they perceive superficially as intelligence” OR experts on creativity start to be more active we will start to understand more precisely all this phenomenon.

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  42. Sean says:

    Why were the elite WASP establishment never as clever as Jewish immigrants, if not because all the health care, nutrition, schooling and intellectual stimulation in the world cannot do what you claim.

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    • Replies: @Rich
    You're buying into the propaganda, Sean. The Wasps were a pretty smart group. They conquered almost half the earth, wrote the US Constitution, invented almost everything and even put a man on the moon. What have Jewish immigrants done besides leech off of that and take over institutions already set up by Wasps. I'm not a Wasp, but I have a lot of respect for their achievements and I appreciate the great country they founded here and allowed my ancestors to escape to, from poverty, and do pretty well. I'm glad my ancestors didn't make a wrong turn and end up in Palestine. Your pick for top dog hasn't exactly founded a land friendly to those of a different religion than theirs, while in this Protestant founded country, my Catholic family did fine.
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  43. @Fran Macadam
    Folks from India (or anywhere else) may be neither dumber nor smarter, but H1Bs are definitely cheaper to hire than Americans for the same work.

    To speak in generalities about working with south Asian H1B guys, it’s like working with geniuses who can’t fix their own bicycles. They end up being deployed in jobs where engineering calculations are required — and they seem to do these quite well — but if you need a guy who can go to the field and fix the turbine controls, you end up sending a white man or north Asian man. Again, those are generalities, but these things recur so regularly that people who work in production industry know it’s true.

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  44. You’re confusing cultural with cognitive aspects. Avg americans have partially similar cultural level tastes than avg mexicans, i said partially. Avg americans tend to be little sophisticated AS WELL avg mexicans… period.

    But to learn things avg americans are overwhelm* better than avg mexicans, that’s the crucial question you’re missing.

    Just because you’re married a mexican woman you are doing it*

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    • Replies: @attilathehen
    Cherchez la femme/le homme is always critical. Reed has a Mexican wife so we know what his angle is. Like John Derbyshire who has a Chinese wife - critical of Christianity the religion of the West, but always helps his wife with her pagan ancestor worship rituals.
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  45. IQ seems to be much like global warming/Climate change (or whatever the label deejour is today). How much data lies behind those “mean IQ” quotes has always been questionable to me.

    OTOH, like it or not, measuring intelligence is possible and the military has been doing a bang up job of it for a lot of years.

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  46. FKA Max says:
    @FKA Max

    If the Flynn effect applies to blacks, they should now be as smart as whites were in 1964. You know, when the Saturn V was being designed.
     
    Personally, I believe that the MAOA gene is more important and has more of an effect on the functioning or non-functioning of a society than ``just'' IQ. It just happens to be, that many of the lower-IQ societies also happen to have a higher number of low-activity MAOA carriers, and most IQ researchers do not control for that, and attribute all those nations' ``shortcomings'' just to IQ, when the ``real'' explanation is a combination of lack of impulse control (low-activity MAOA) and (low) IQ, IMO:

    Scientists Rediscover the Violence Gene, MAOA-2R

    In fact, the Guo et al 2008 study in the European Journal of Human Genetics included an in-vitro functional analysis of MAOA in human brain-tumor cells. MAOA-2R was less active than MAOA-3R, which was less active than MAOA-4R, the most common version in white people. MAOA-4R was more than three times as active as MAOA-2R. [...]

    For instance, low IQ does not increase violent tendencies in men with MAOA-4R, but it does in men with MAOA-3R.
     
    - http://theunsilencedscience.blogspot.com/2012/12/scientists-rediscover-violence-gene.html

    There is not that much difference between Western and Asian IQs, but the difference in the frequency of the low(er)-activity MAOA (3R) allele between those two races is quite significant, and I posit the reason why Western/White societies are less corrupt, etc. than Asian societies: http://www.unz.com/jman/clannishness-the-series-how-it-happened/ and http://www.unz.com/jman/clannishness-the-series-how-it-happened/#comment-1701996

    Studies have found differences in the frequency distribution of variants of the MAOA gene between ethnic groups:[32][33] of the participants, 59% of Black men, 54% of Chinese men, 56% of Maori men, and 34% of Caucasian men carried the 3R allele, while 5.5% of Black men, 0.1% of Caucasian men, and 0.00067% of Asian men carried the 2R allele.[23][32][33][34][35][36][37][38][39][40]
     
    - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monoamine_oxidase_A#Aggression_and_the_.22Warrior_gene.22

    See also: http://theunsilencedscience.blogspot.com/2013/01/monoamine-oxidase-bibliography.html


    So the perfect violence soup is low MAO-A, social isolation, high testosterone, being poor and having a low IQ.[...] The 2R version, which produces the least MAO-A, is found in 5.5% of Black men, 0.1% of Caucasian men, and 0.00067% of Asian men. [ A study in Saudi Arabia ( El-Tarras et al.) found 15.6% of a control group carried the very low-activity 2-repeat MAO-A allele: page 3; Table 1; http://adhdnet.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/El-Tarras-2012-Association-study-betwee.pdf]
     
    - http://www.unz.com/article/americas-white-gun-culture-isnt-killing-blacks-other-blacks-are/#comment-1613821

    How do you explain the high prevalence of MAOA-2R in the Saudi population? Did Saudis select for the ”warrior gene” in the past, and now, through their cousin marriage tradition/custom, these traits are widespread in the population? Do you think MAOA-2R aka the ”warrior gene” is as prevalent in Bangladesh, Pakistan, Afghanistan et al, or is Saudi Arabia an extreme outlier here?
     
    - http://www.unz.com/gnxp/open-thread-732016/#comment-1484306

    Also interesting to this discussion: http://www.unz.com/gnxp/middle-eastern-populations-have-higher-recessive-disease-load/#comment-1515804 and http://www.unz.com/gnxp/indonesian-islam-is-getting-modern-not-conservative/#comment-1649658

    The Stupid Stupidity Surrounding the Warrior Gene, MAOA, is Stupid

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4wPNnAn2MEo

    One of the ways lack or low impulse control expresses itself in Asians is gambling, despite strong social disapproval of the practice and state bans on it:

    Moving from city to city, he spent countless nights around card tables in the smoke-filled apartments that act as secret casinos in a country where gambling is illegal and regarded by the authorities as a serious social evil.

    Now he has embarked on a different career: persuading China’s growing army of illegal gamblers to think again about what to many has become a destructive addiction.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/china/6942975/Chinas-secret-gambling-problem.html

    Research shows Asians in the U.S. have a disproportionate number of pathological gamblers (i.e. addicted) as compared to the general American population. According to Dr. Timothy Fong, an associate Clinical Professor of Psychiatry at the Semel Institute for Neuroscience and Human Behavior at UCLA and co-director of the UCLA Gambling Studies Program, the rate of gambling addiction ranges from 6 percent to nearly 60 percent, depending on the specific Asian ethnicity (Southeast Asian refugees scoring highest) as opposed to the national rate of 1-2 percent.

    https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/minority-report/201407/asian-gambling-addiction

    Researchers found that only 13% of British Asian children questioned were found to be regular gamblers, compared to 20% overall.

    But Asians were proportionately at greatest risk of developing addictive and problem behaviour, such as lying to friends and family or using money meant for other things.

    Slot machines and betting with friends on cards were the most popular methods of gambling. [...]

    “In the Asian community there is strong social disapproval of gambling in general,” said Prof David Forrest, who led the research. “This means the minority who choose to gamble are already overcoming a barrier – already suffering a cost in terms of social disapproval.”

    So probably a lot of Asians who gamble are people drawn to risk-taking whereas among whites many players are not candidates for hardened gambling because they’re playing for social reasons rather than a driver in their inner self,” he said.

    http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-17049110

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    Correction: One of the ways lack *of* or low impulse control expresses itself in Asians is gambling...

    Nearly five percent of Japanese are addicted to gambling – even though it’s still “illegal”

    This past summer the Ministry of Health, Labor and Welfare conducted research on the number of citizens addicted to gambling, including boat and horse racing, pachinko, slots and even mahjong. The study found that over 5.36 million people are addicted to gambling (4.3 million men, and just under 1 million women)—that’s almost five percent of the population (and almost nine percent of all men). Further, they discovered that within this group, eighty percent of them are addicted to pachinko and slots, specifically. [...]

    It was such a problem in Korea that the government effectively banned it, leading many addicts to travel to Japan to get their fix. [...]
     
    - http://en.rocketnews24.com/2014/11/23/nearly-five-percent-of-japanese-are-addicted-to-gambling-even-though-its-still-illegal/
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  47. woodNfish says:

    A quibble – the Irish are not European as Ireland, an island, is not part of the European continent. Same for Brits.

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    • Replies: @Cletus Rothschild
    "A quibble – the Irish are not European as Ireland, an island, is not part of the European continent. Same for Brits."

    Right. Just as Sicily is not part of Europe. And Long Island is not part of North America.
    , @Alden
    Another inane, off topic, stupid, snarky, smart ass quibble

    Cerca 12 thousand years ago, the North Sea did not exist and people lived on the land between Britian and what is now the Netherlands. The ice age was ending and the Atlantic flooded those lowlands and created a sea barrier between Britian and the continent.
    But Britian was still connected to the continent by land at the Dover Calais crossing. That crossing was not covered by water until about 9 thousand years ago.

    N. Ireland was connected to Scotland until about 9 thousand years ago when the sea rose at the end of the ice age.

    Today there are numerous large sand bars in the channel and North Sea that are covered with water at high tide and rise above the water at low tide.
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  48. anon says: • Disclaimer

    Seems if we don’t think about it holistically, we’re going to run into trouble. That is, trying to pack hundreds of thousands of years of evolution into a “rough sketch,” i.e. IQ, while useful, doesn’t tell enough of the story to implement effective and humane population planning.

    https://medicalxpress.com/news/2017-01-cultural-differences-dna.html

    I believe without comprehensive population planning, global warming and/or environmental protection concerns are irrelevant. Average people can’t comprehend the power of exponentialism related to population growth, as it’s currently playing out in Africa. Hundreds of millions of people are going to die horribly, mostly black, global warming or not.

    When that Tse Tse Fly Coates goes on about “black bodies piling up,” he has no idea what’s around the corner for millions of black bodies, which begs the question, if you mean well, but create tremendous suffering, are you still a good person? Tse Tse believes so.

    In any case, the black gene pool is a hot mess, and transporting them here from Africa, as Obama has done, will lead to more suffering in the United States for generations to come. But isn’t he a good person for making a wretched life from a foreign land better, while making american lives worse? Is the White Man’s Burden just another a point of view, or moral imperative?

    If they are our burden, can’t we manage them more effectively to end their suffering around the world?

    If so, how?

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  49. FKA Max says:
    @FKA Max
    One of the ways lack or low impulse control expresses itself in Asians is gambling, despite strong social disapproval of the practice and state bans on it:

    Moving from city to city, he spent countless nights around card tables in the smoke-filled apartments that act as secret casinos in a country where gambling is illegal and regarded by the authorities as a serious social evil.

    Now he has embarked on a different career: persuading China’s growing army of illegal gamblers to think again about what to many has become a destructive addiction.
     
    - http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/china/6942975/Chinas-secret-gambling-problem.html

    Research shows Asians in the U.S. have a disproportionate number of pathological gamblers (i.e. addicted) as compared to the general American population. According to Dr. Timothy Fong, an associate Clinical Professor of Psychiatry at the Semel Institute for Neuroscience and Human Behavior at UCLA and co-director of the UCLA Gambling Studies Program, the rate of gambling addiction ranges from 6 percent to nearly 60 percent, depending on the specific Asian ethnicity (Southeast Asian refugees scoring highest) as opposed to the national rate of 1-2 percent.
     
    - https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/minority-report/201407/asian-gambling-addiction

    Researchers found that only 13% of British Asian children questioned were found to be regular gamblers, compared to 20% overall.

    But Asians were proportionately at greatest risk of developing addictive and problem behaviour, such as lying to friends and family or using money meant for other things.

    Slot machines and betting with friends on cards were the most popular methods of gambling. [...]

    "In the Asian community there is strong social disapproval of gambling in general," said Prof David Forrest, who led the research. "This means the minority who choose to gamble are already overcoming a barrier - already suffering a cost in terms of social disapproval."

    "So probably a lot of Asians who gamble are people drawn to risk-taking whereas among whites many players are not candidates for hardened gambling because they're playing for social reasons rather than a driver in their inner self," he said.
     
    - http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-17049110

    Correction: One of the ways lack *of* or low impulse control expresses itself in Asians is gambling…

    Nearly five percent of Japanese are addicted to gambling – even though it’s still “illegal”

    This past summer the Ministry of Health, Labor and Welfare conducted research on the number of citizens addicted to gambling, including boat and horse racing, pachinko, slots and even mahjong. The study found that over 5.36 million people are addicted to gambling (4.3 million men, and just under 1 million women)—that’s almost five percent of the population (and almost nine percent of all men). Further, they discovered that within this group, eighty percent of them are addicted to pachinko and slots, specifically. [...]

    It was such a problem in Korea that the government effectively banned it, leading many addicts to travel to Japan to get their fix. [...]

    http://en.rocketnews24.com/2014/11/23/nearly-five-percent-of-japanese-are-addicted-to-gambling-even-though-its-still-illegal/

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    • Replies: @Che Guava

    Nearly five percent of Japanese are addicted to gambling – even though it’s still “illegal”
     
    Addicted to pachinko? You may well be right. The papa at one bar I used to like (now closed) would burn through 70,000 yen once or twice a month.

    Of the examples you cite, gambling on boat, bicycle and horse racing is legal.

    For the boat, cycle, and horse races, the only legal facilities are officially on-site, but the evening tabloids have a lot of coverage, so there must be a thriving and tolerated bookmaking scene. Maybe on-line betting now, too.

    Mahjong, gambling is illegal, but there are small mahjong parlours everywhere, and every player I know gambles, usually for very small stakes, but there must be exceptions to that (large-stakes games at some places).

    Pachinko and our version of slot machines, gambling is illegal, but both have a tolerated subterfuge to exchange wins for cash, in the case of pachinko, some people make a living out of it, there are comics and movies about it, instructional magazines, simulations of the machines to practice on with a game console, it is a small sub-culture.

    Some of the pros really make a very good living from it (anecdotes from playing friends and the very occasional coverage on mass-media convince me that this is not just a lure, a few really do consistently make pretty good money from pachinko).

    Where the govt. is really serious is in not allowing casino-style games. I have never seen a sign that they exist, would guess that Yakuza gangs sometimes hold high-stakes card games, at least, but there is no sign of illegal casinos.

    One of former Governor Ishihara's many ideas (mainly bad) was a legal casino near or by Tokyo Bay, his former colleagues in the ruling party did not allow it, so our polity seems serious on that.
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  50. A word about Brahmins. I knew a few smart ones, but a few very stupid ones too. I blame inbreeding for the latter – (sub-sub-sub-caste level marriage).
    Same phenomenon as one sees among Ultra Orthodox Jews, Muslims, Amish, etc.. I suspect.
    A shout out to their culture of opportunism. Even the dumb ones researched the stock market and were well versed in Phynance. Sounds familiar?

    A word about IQ tests. I’ve taken them a few times and my performance varied greatly, depending on my state at the time. Well-fed and happy me scores higher.

    Read More
    • Replies: @rw95
    Are there actually IQ differences between the castes? I constantly hear this, but I've seen no data. I'm pretty sure there are wealthy Dalits and dirt-poor Brahmins.
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  51. I am sceptical of making IQ assumptions about entire nations and ethnic groups. I tend to assume the prejudice arrived first and perhaps unconsciously influenced the results attributed to tests. The alleged stupidity of the Irish was a deeply ingrained prejudice for the British, certainly in 1973. How much British influence was there on test results? Strangely, since the Troubles more or less ended, there seems to be less motivation to treat the Irish as subhumans and so you don’t hear so much about Irish stupidity as you once did.

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  52. @Fred, You're Not a Skeptic
    The piece should be retitled, "IQ: The Ignoramus's View."

    This is a confused rant that cherry-picks exceptions to a general rule. And the rule is this: Countries with higher-IQ populations (based on IQ, PISA, TIMSS, PIRLS results) have better health, higher GDP, more wealth (per capita), more high-tech exports, more Nobel laureates, longer lifespans, more and better quality education, less crime, less AIDS, fewer homicides, more economic freedom, more religious freedom, more democracy, stronger property rights, and less corruption.

    Next time, before ranting about national IQs, try skimming articles by Rindermann, Lynn, or Meisneberg.

    I liked your comment. I have one question – and it is a genuine question, not a snide observation. Wouldn’t it possible to say:

    And the rule is this: Countries with more economic freedom have better health, higher GDP, more wealth (per capita), more high-tech exports, more Nobel laureates, longer lifespans, more and better quality education, less crime, less AIDS, fewer homicides, higher-IQ populations (based on IQ, PISA, TIMSS, PIRLS results) etc.

    I chose ‘economic freedom’ at random. I could have chosen anything in your list. My question is, what suggests that IQ is upstream rather than downstream of all the good things you listed?

    And on a slightly different point, what do you think about Fred Reed’s idea that IQ and intelligence are very different things? He admits that blacks have low IQs and have achieved next to nothing. However, I see his point that a lack of intelligence is less easy to spot in, say, Indians, Mexicans and South Americans, despite their measured low IQ.

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    • Replies: @bomag

    I chose ‘economic freedom’ at random. I could have chosen anything in your list. My question is, what suggests that IQ is upstream rather than downstream of all the good things you listed?
     
    What fits with observation? Somalia has lots of 'economic freedom', but not much to show for it. Europe and Singapore are not exactly high on the 'economic freedom' chart, but they have quite a bit of civilization.

    IQ is one of our best predictors of accomplishment.
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  53. JVC says:

    that IQ tests reliably measure it

    IQ tests reflect whatever the IQ test creator wants it to reflect. Other than that, it’s just bull.

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    • Replies: @anon
    The military have been using them for decades - it's why fighter jets aren't crashing every five minutes.

    (both pilots and maintenance crews are selected on IQ)
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  54. FKA Max says:
    @FKA Max

    If the Flynn effect applies to blacks, they should now be as smart as whites were in 1964. You know, when the Saturn V was being designed.
     
    Personally, I believe that the MAOA gene is more important and has more of an effect on the functioning or non-functioning of a society than ``just'' IQ. It just happens to be, that many of the lower-IQ societies also happen to have a higher number of low-activity MAOA carriers, and most IQ researchers do not control for that, and attribute all those nations' ``shortcomings'' just to IQ, when the ``real'' explanation is a combination of lack of impulse control (low-activity MAOA) and (low) IQ, IMO:

    Scientists Rediscover the Violence Gene, MAOA-2R

    In fact, the Guo et al 2008 study in the European Journal of Human Genetics included an in-vitro functional analysis of MAOA in human brain-tumor cells. MAOA-2R was less active than MAOA-3R, which was less active than MAOA-4R, the most common version in white people. MAOA-4R was more than three times as active as MAOA-2R. [...]

    For instance, low IQ does not increase violent tendencies in men with MAOA-4R, but it does in men with MAOA-3R.
     
    - http://theunsilencedscience.blogspot.com/2012/12/scientists-rediscover-violence-gene.html

    There is not that much difference between Western and Asian IQs, but the difference in the frequency of the low(er)-activity MAOA (3R) allele between those two races is quite significant, and I posit the reason why Western/White societies are less corrupt, etc. than Asian societies: http://www.unz.com/jman/clannishness-the-series-how-it-happened/ and http://www.unz.com/jman/clannishness-the-series-how-it-happened/#comment-1701996

    Studies have found differences in the frequency distribution of variants of the MAOA gene between ethnic groups:[32][33] of the participants, 59% of Black men, 54% of Chinese men, 56% of Maori men, and 34% of Caucasian men carried the 3R allele, while 5.5% of Black men, 0.1% of Caucasian men, and 0.00067% of Asian men carried the 2R allele.[23][32][33][34][35][36][37][38][39][40]
     
    - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monoamine_oxidase_A#Aggression_and_the_.22Warrior_gene.22

    See also: http://theunsilencedscience.blogspot.com/2013/01/monoamine-oxidase-bibliography.html


    So the perfect violence soup is low MAO-A, social isolation, high testosterone, being poor and having a low IQ.[...] The 2R version, which produces the least MAO-A, is found in 5.5% of Black men, 0.1% of Caucasian men, and 0.00067% of Asian men. [ A study in Saudi Arabia ( El-Tarras et al.) found 15.6% of a control group carried the very low-activity 2-repeat MAO-A allele: page 3; Table 1; http://adhdnet.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/El-Tarras-2012-Association-study-betwee.pdf]
     
    - http://www.unz.com/article/americas-white-gun-culture-isnt-killing-blacks-other-blacks-are/#comment-1613821

    How do you explain the high prevalence of MAOA-2R in the Saudi population? Did Saudis select for the ”warrior gene” in the past, and now, through their cousin marriage tradition/custom, these traits are widespread in the population? Do you think MAOA-2R aka the ”warrior gene” is as prevalent in Bangladesh, Pakistan, Afghanistan et al, or is Saudi Arabia an extreme outlier here?
     
    - http://www.unz.com/gnxp/open-thread-732016/#comment-1484306

    Also interesting to this discussion: http://www.unz.com/gnxp/middle-eastern-populations-have-higher-recessive-disease-load/#comment-1515804 and http://www.unz.com/gnxp/indonesian-islam-is-getting-modern-not-conservative/#comment-1649658

    The Stupid Stupidity Surrounding the Warrior Gene, MAOA, is Stupid

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4wPNnAn2MEo

    I have a theory, that high(er)-IQ Asians developed all sorts of meditation and mind and body-calming techniques (acupressure, etc.), formulas (herbal tinctures, etc.) and philosophies ( Zen, etc.) to cope with the high percentage/number of low-activity MAOA carriers and the resulting low levels of impulse control in their populations and societies.

    There was a program on the “warrior gene” on NatGeoTV a couple of years ago: http://natgeotv.com/ca/inside-the-warrior-gene

    They tested all kinds of different groups of people if they were low-activity MAOA (“warrior gene”) carriers; among the people being tested were also a group of mixed-martial-arts fighters and a group of Buddhist monks. All the martial artists tested negative and all the Buddhist monks tested positive for low-activity MAOA. Looks can be deceiving…

    Warrior Gene – Part 10

    Jews (2R 1.3%; 3R 62%) carry low-activity MAOA at much higher rates than Whites (2R 0.2%; 3R 36%): http://theunsilencedscience.blogspot.com/2013/01/monoamine-oxidase-bibliography.html Low-activity MAOA is associated with higher levels of aggressiveness and risk-taking

    http://www.unz.com/gnxp/class-status-matters-more-for-success-than-performance/#comment-1507010

    I believe too, that the high prevalence of low-activity MAOA among Jews is the reason why Buddhism, meditation, etc. is so popular with Jews, i.e., a healthy and productive way for high(er)-IQ individuals to deal/cope with their low-activity MAOA:

    Jews are overrepresented in American Buddhism specifically among those whose parents are not Buddhist, and without Buddhist heritage, with between one fifth[125] and 30% of all American Buddhists identifying as Jewish[126] though only 2% of Americans are Jewish. Nicknamed Jubus, an increasing number of American Jews have begun adopting Buddhist spiritual practice, while at the same time continuing to identify with and practice Judaism. Notable American Jewish Buddhists include: Robert Downey, Jr.[127] Allen Ginsberg,[128] Goldie Hawn[129] and daughter Kate Hudson, Steven Seagal, Adam Yauch of the rap group The Beastie Boys, and Garry Shandling. Film makers the Coen Brothers have been influenced by Buddhism as well for a time.[130] Founder of the New York City Marathon, Fred Lebow, dabbled in Buddhism for a brief period.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Jews#Buddhism

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  55. anon says: • Disclaimer

    And on a slightly different point, what do you think about Fred Reed’s idea that IQ and intelligence are very different things? He admits that blacks have low IQs and have achieved next to nothing. However, I see his point that a lack of intelligence is less easy to spot in, say, Indians, Mexicans and South Americans, despite their measured low IQ.

    The majority of blacks have shittious executive function, while hispanics, while it’s not stellar, tend to get the job done, more or less, although designing and building sky scrapers probably isn’t in their wheel house. I would say the metropolis photos submitted here by the author, claiming hispanics ability to nation-build has more to do with hispanic’s ability to hand off the big brain stuff to the Germans. German archetects and builders likely have a lot to do with this, just as they are primarily responsible for the sky scrapers, and other architectual wonders in Dubai.

    Speaking of which, I recall speaking to a contractor who’s american company handled some of the electrical infrastructure of Dubai and surrounding areas. He said Arabs don’t have an affinity to maintenance of their power grid structure, and the further out he went, the worse it got. He worked on power lines out in the desert that hadn’t be serviced in a decade. He said they don’t seem to believe in, or put much value on telephone line maintenance or power cables, and they’d rot out and fail if his company wasn’t running about keeping them online. He said, left on their own, areas throughout Saudi Arabia would go dark after a few years.

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    • Replies: @dc.sunsets
    The dirty little secret Fred failed to mention is that POMEA (people of mostly European Ancestry) are doing all the heavy lifting in 2nd and 3rd world countries where there are signs of modernity. Asians are doing well because they are outstanding reverse-engineers.

    IQ isn't all. Everyone knows that, so using it as a target just makes it a straw man.

    Smart people embrace some really dumb ideas (e.g., leftism & Holy Diversity) in part because they have lots of mental horsepower to devote to rationalizing their way around the contradictions and obvious folly.

    I joined Colloquy Society and was utterly disappointed by the embrace of utter insanity I found there. The threshold for membership is four times more selective than Mensa.

    So much for IQ tests revealing whose got a clue. A high IQ and a dollar buys you a cup of joe at McDonald's. What is measured by an IQ test (or surrogate) is one let of a stool. A stool with one leg is a useless piece of furniture.

    High IQ people from India, China, etc. have DNA-coded cultures that are not compatible with Western Civ. Their IQ doesn't matter. Culture is all. China for the Chinese, India for Indians, Mexico for Mexicans and the USA for people whose ancestors BUILT IT.

    , @Cletus Rothschild
    "The majority of blacks have shittious executive function . . ."

    Bringing executive function into the discussion is of tremendous importance. It helps explain, among other things, why a brilliant person with a high IQ can be functionally illiterate. It can also help understand why people who are genetically intelligent, yet raised in a simple culture, won't have developed the ability to function in a more complex culture.
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  56. @Intelligent Dasein
    I'm very old fashioned on race relations. I agree with what might be called a White Nationalist, even a Segregationist, agenda. However, I also think that HBD and its derivative, IQ, is precisely the worst ground on which to make this case. Pseudo-scientific malarkey is no foundation on which to build an ethno-nationalist ethic.

    I wouldn’t call IQ research malarkey. It’s pretty useful, if imperfect.

    But, yes, I agree that fixating on IQ as the only measure of human beings or groups isn’t right. I don’t want to live in a 90%+ white country because our average IQ is higher or lower than other groups. I simply want to live with my own kind because we understand each other in a way that we could never understand other groups.

    Whether other groups have higher or lower IQs or achievements doesn’t much matter to me. A 95% white country (oh, what a wonderful thought) with 10 million people could improve its overall IQ by importing 10 million 130+ IQ Chinese, but that’d be silly.

    I don’t want to live in a country without blacks and browns because I hate them. I wish them well. I want to live in a white country for the same reason I care for and understand my children more than I care for and understand other people’s children. I wouldn’t replace one of my kids for a high IQ Indian kid, so why would I let them into my country.

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    • Replies: @dc.sunsets

    I wouldn’t replace one of my kids for a high IQ Indian kid, so why would I let them into my country.
     
    Ditto.

    My ancestors made the USA what it was in the 1960's (at its peak.) My ancestors were stupid enough to invite everyone and their village idiot to join the party, move next door and date my grand kids.

    Thanks for the former, but you really screwed up on the latter.

    The Holy Sacrament of Diversity is going to be overturned (it's in the process of turning now) and the result will prove that Diversity + Proximity = War (sooner or later.) I chose to live in a place surrounded by people who are quiet like me, law-abiding like me, who keep their property neat like me, who respect the property of others like me, and who are considerate to their neighbors as I am.

    Inviting people who hold "diverse" approaches to all this irritates me (at best), and stands a good chance of enraging me at some point.

    Those who celebrate the sacrament of Holy Diversity by inflicting their cult religion on the rest of us need to be beaten senseless and dumped in a deep well.

    , @The Unrecorded Man
    "I wouldn’t replace one of my kids for a high IQ Indian kid, so why would I let them into my country."

    I used to make this argument but I have stopped doing so. I know a lot of east Asians and like them. Given the chance I would gladly swap them for some welfare-sponging, drug-taking, alcohol-binging, foul-mouthed Brits, despite the fact that I am genetically closer to the latter. Wanting to be with people like yourself is natural but there are many ways to be like someone: political beliefs, musical tastes, religion, values, shared history, manners plus lots more ways. While I'd accept close family members regardless of how rubbish they were, I don't feel the same about feckless louts with whom I might share a common ancestor several centuries ago. Then ethnic solidarity gets swamped by other concerns.

    In short, I think there are good reasons why ethnonationalism is a sensible way to structure your country and that while ethnic purity is a myth - Who qualifies for that? - a super-majority of a more or less homogenous group is certainly possible. I just don't think the scaling up from your own child to society as a whole works as an argument. Not for me anyway.
    , @Rdm

    I want to live in a white country for the same reason I care for and understand my children more than I care for and understand other people’s children. I wouldn’t replace one of my kids for a high IQ Indian kid, so why would I let them into my country.
     
    It's the same mentality as those chimpanzees. They enjoy being around to their own kinds. There's nothing wrong with that. No chimpanzee will enjoy interacting with high IQ homo sapiens. Over a couple of centuries, those high IQ homo sapiens come and take over those low IQ chimpanzee, put them in a cage, showcase in a zoo. This is to show you the mental image of how species evolve.

    If and only if Chimpanzee realize how beneficial to them if they start making a policy, interacting with those high IQ homo sapiens, dwell with them, become a pet to them, they will have no danger in the future. Look at Cats and Dogs. That's how they evolve. So there's no harm to them.
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  57. Rich says:
    @Sean
    Why were the elite WASP establishment never as clever as Jewish immigrants, if not because all the health care, nutrition, schooling and intellectual stimulation in the world cannot do what you claim.

    You’re buying into the propaganda, Sean. The Wasps were a pretty smart group. They conquered almost half the earth, wrote the US Constitution, invented almost everything and even put a man on the moon. What have Jewish immigrants done besides leech off of that and take over institutions already set up by Wasps. I’m not a Wasp, but I have a lot of respect for their achievements and I appreciate the great country they founded here and allowed my ancestors to escape to, from poverty, and do pretty well. I’m glad my ancestors didn’t make a wrong turn and end up in Palestine. Your pick for top dog hasn’t exactly founded a land friendly to those of a different religion than theirs, while in this Protestant founded country, my Catholic family did fine.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anon

    What have Jewish immigrants done besides leech off of that and take over institutions already set up by Wasps.
     
    Quite a bit: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_von_Neumann . Otherwise, point well taken.
    , @Sean
    An s5053ar3y irrelevant assertion would be that the Yamnaya did not clear the land they conquered in north Europe. So what, the immigrants were superior and they proved it, as did the Conquistadors. And they took their choice of the the local women.

    The WASPs were the best test of good environment for IQ, because they had the most favourable environment for developing high IQ in the world and they were beaten at their own game by poor desperate immigrant slum dwelling Jews, every time.

    Ashkenazi Jewish immigrants were obviously superior to the American elite so the Ashkenazi advantage was genetic and not due to better nutrition, schooling or intellectual stimulation. Moreover, there has been no such superiority in subsequent non Jewish immigrants, who have not been able to even attain WASP level.

    A New York Ashkenazi Jew with the IQ of Muhammad Ali would seem obviously mentally handicapped, but Ali didn't even though he was rejected as unsuitable for the US army on the grounds of his test result.

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  58. @Citizen of a Silly Country
    Life is an IQ test, Fred.

    Forget all the tests. Let's just look at accomplishments. Accomplishments tests all matter of intelligence.

    Compare a nearly all-white Western city or country (granted, those are getting thin on the ground) to a Mexican or Indian or, even, Chinese city. Compare, say, Salt Lake City to Mexico City. Prague vs Mumbai. What do you see?


    Also, Fred, I appreciate your loyalty to friends and family, but your Mexico and South America references are getting tiresome. Mexico and South America have a significant European-derived population. Is it the Mestizo or the 90%+ Europeans that create the cities that you show in the pictures?

    Look, I'd fight for my kids too, but at some point you need to be realistic.

    Btw, straw man arguments are beneath you, so please stop. Exhibit A:

    "If Latino immigrants really are as stupid as white nationalists hope, then they will always inhabit an underclass and, through intermarriage, enstupidate the American population."

    Jeez, Fred, loving your own kind doesn't always mean hating others. You should know that.

    Did I miss Fred debunking Charles Murray’s chronicle of human achievement?

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  59. @anon

    And on a slightly different point, what do you think about Fred Reed’s idea that IQ and intelligence are very different things? He admits that blacks have low IQs and have achieved next to nothing. However, I see his point that a lack of intelligence is less easy to spot in, say, Indians, Mexicans and South Americans, despite their measured low IQ.
     
    The majority of blacks have shittious executive function, while hispanics, while it's not stellar, tend to get the job done, more or less, although designing and building sky scrapers probably isn't in their wheel house. I would say the metropolis photos submitted here by the author, claiming hispanics ability to nation-build has more to do with hispanic's ability to hand off the big brain stuff to the Germans. German archetects and builders likely have a lot to do with this, just as they are primarily responsible for the sky scrapers, and other architectual wonders in Dubai.

    Speaking of which, I recall speaking to a contractor who's american company handled some of the electrical infrastructure of Dubai and surrounding areas. He said Arabs don't have an affinity to maintenance of their power grid structure, and the further out he went, the worse it got. He worked on power lines out in the desert that hadn't be serviced in a decade. He said they don't seem to believe in, or put much value on telephone line maintenance or power cables, and they'd rot out and fail if his company wasn't running about keeping them online. He said, left on their own, areas throughout Saudi Arabia would go dark after a few years.

    The dirty little secret Fred failed to mention is that POMEA (people of mostly European Ancestry) are doing all the heavy lifting in 2nd and 3rd world countries where there are signs of modernity. Asians are doing well because they are outstanding reverse-engineers.

    IQ isn’t all. Everyone knows that, so using it as a target just makes it a straw man.

    Smart people embrace some really dumb ideas (e.g., leftism & Holy Diversity) in part because they have lots of mental horsepower to devote to rationalizing their way around the contradictions and obvious folly.

    I joined Colloquy Society and was utterly disappointed by the embrace of utter insanity I found there. The threshold for membership is four times more selective than Mensa.

    So much for IQ tests revealing whose got a clue. A high IQ and a dollar buys you a cup of joe at McDonald’s. What is measured by an IQ test (or surrogate) is one let of a stool. A stool with one leg is a useless piece of furniture.

    High IQ people from India, China, etc. have DNA-coded cultures that are not compatible with Western Civ. Their IQ doesn’t matter. Culture is all. China for the Chinese, India for Indians, Mexico for Mexicans and the USA for people whose ancestors BUILT IT.

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    • Replies: @Anon

    High IQ people from India, China, etc. have DNA-coded cultures that are not compatible with Western Civ. Their IQ doesn’t matter. Culture is all. China for the Chinese, India for Indians, Mexico for Mexicans and the USA for people whose ancestors BUILT IT.
     
    Indeed...

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4116252/Punch-35-000-feet-Chaotic-moment-passengers-launch-violent-brawl-flight-London-sparking-emergency-landing.html
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  60. @Citizen of a Silly Country
    I wouldn't call IQ research malarkey. It's pretty useful, if imperfect.

    But, yes, I agree that fixating on IQ as the only measure of human beings or groups isn't right. I don't want to live in a 90%+ white country because our average IQ is higher or lower than other groups. I simply want to live with my own kind because we understand each other in a way that we could never understand other groups.

    Whether other groups have higher or lower IQs or achievements doesn't much matter to me. A 95% white country (oh, what a wonderful thought) with 10 million people could improve its overall IQ by importing 10 million 130+ IQ Chinese, but that'd be silly.

    I don't want to live in a country without blacks and browns because I hate them. I wish them well. I want to live in a white country for the same reason I care for and understand my children more than I care for and understand other people's children. I wouldn't replace one of my kids for a high IQ Indian kid, so why would I let them into my country.

    I wouldn’t replace one of my kids for a high IQ Indian kid, so why would I let them into my country.

    Ditto.

    My ancestors made the USA what it was in the 1960′s (at its peak.) My ancestors were stupid enough to invite everyone and their village idiot to join the party, move next door and date my grand kids.

    Thanks for the former, but you really screwed up on the latter.

    The Holy Sacrament of Diversity is going to be overturned (it’s in the process of turning now) and the result will prove that Diversity + Proximity = War (sooner or later.) I chose to live in a place surrounded by people who are quiet like me, law-abiding like me, who keep their property neat like me, who respect the property of others like me, and who are considerate to their neighbors as I am.

    Inviting people who hold “diverse” approaches to all this irritates me (at best), and stands a good chance of enraging me at some point.

    Those who celebrate the sacrament of Holy Diversity by inflicting their cult religion on the rest of us need to be beaten senseless and dumped in a deep well.

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    • Replies: @CanSpeccy

    The Holy Sacrament of Diversity is going to be overturned (it’s in the process of turning now) and the result will prove that Diversity + Proximity = War (sooner or later.)
     
    But the war will not begin in earnest before fighting-age whites and Christians are outnumbered both in the US and Europe. Then it'll be game over for the Europeans not only in North America but in Europe, an outcome our "leaders" evidently intend.
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  61. Anon says: • Disclaimer
    @Rich
    You're buying into the propaganda, Sean. The Wasps were a pretty smart group. They conquered almost half the earth, wrote the US Constitution, invented almost everything and even put a man on the moon. What have Jewish immigrants done besides leech off of that and take over institutions already set up by Wasps. I'm not a Wasp, but I have a lot of respect for their achievements and I appreciate the great country they founded here and allowed my ancestors to escape to, from poverty, and do pretty well. I'm glad my ancestors didn't make a wrong turn and end up in Palestine. Your pick for top dog hasn't exactly founded a land friendly to those of a different religion than theirs, while in this Protestant founded country, my Catholic family did fine.

    What have Jewish immigrants done besides leech off of that and take over institutions already set up by Wasps.

    Quite a bit: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_von_Neumann . Otherwise, point well taken.

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    • Replies: @Rich
    Kind of proves my point, doesn't it? Where would von Neumann have been without the Wasps who came before him? Who built a nation he could immigrate to and set up an infrastructure he could use? I'm not saying the various immigrants didn't succeed when they came to America, I'm saying that without America, most of them would've been unknown, many trapped in poverty.
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  62. @Negrolphin Pool
    Start downtown. Drive between one and two miles, heading northeast on Gratiot St. Take any left.

    Keep driving until you change your mind.

    I’m tempted to take this seriously. Record a video of this?

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    • Replies: @anon
    If you do, go before noon - the psycho gangsta types mostly sleep late.
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  63. Rich says:
    @Anon

    What have Jewish immigrants done besides leech off of that and take over institutions already set up by Wasps.
     
    Quite a bit: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_von_Neumann . Otherwise, point well taken.

    Kind of proves my point, doesn’t it? Where would von Neumann have been without the Wasps who came before him? Who built a nation he could immigrate to and set up an infrastructure he could use? I’m not saying the various immigrants didn’t succeed when they came to America, I’m saying that without America, most of them would’ve been unknown, many trapped in poverty.

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  64. Tony says:

    ” Irish people have also long been known to have large heads.”
    This makes up for their other small extremities.

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  65. anon says: • Disclaimer
    @Daniel Chieh
    I'm tempted to take this seriously. Record a video of this?

    If you do, go before noon – the psycho gangsta types mostly sleep late.

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  66. anon says: • Disclaimer
    @JVC

    that IQ tests reliably measure it
     
    IQ tests reflect whatever the IQ test creator wants it to reflect. Other than that, it's just bull.

    The military have been using them for decades – it’s why fighter jets aren’t crashing every five minutes.

    (both pilots and maintenance crews are selected on IQ)

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  67. Photo: Cartagena, Colombia. “Do you really believe that this city was designed and built by people with a mean IQ of 84? ”

    No. It was conceived, designed and construction managed by people (not necessarily Colombian either) of a mean IQ of 120 or greater and built by considerably lesser IQ labor who obeyed their elitest overlords. Ditto for Mexico. Those are NOT however the people crossing our southern border.

    Spot on with El Negro though. I found a new Youtube on milestones in Kenyan aviation history(Hidden Figures anybody??) for your amusement.

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  68. An speaking of Cartegena, Colombia– their elite engineers live a few miles to the north.

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    • Replies: @Dan Hayes
    Jim Bob Lassiter:

    I would contrast this use (or what the more squeamous would term the abuse) of donkeys with the care and devotion to these animals that I have witnessed in the "Donkey Sanctuaries" in the Irish Republic and England.
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  69. utu says:

    Mr. Fred Reed, I liked this article very much. It was refreshing. It is good to shake up those IQers from the mutual admiration society particularly here at unz.com where they like to spout their pathetic and often vile wisdoms without much challenge from anybody.

    It is interesting that the group think can make so many seeming intelligent people to be so wrong. Climate science is just another example. I think that people with science or engineering background are particularly susceptible. Is it a lure of reductionism? What is behind it? What does drive these individuals to become a herd?

    “There are some ideas so wrong that only a very intelligent person could believe in them.” George Orwell

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    • Replies: @Anatoly Karlin

    Climate science is just another example. I think that people with science or engineering background are particularly susceptible.
     
    Yes, those people certainly know nothing about how the world works.
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  70. Anon says: • Disclaimer
    @dc.sunsets
    The dirty little secret Fred failed to mention is that POMEA (people of mostly European Ancestry) are doing all the heavy lifting in 2nd and 3rd world countries where there are signs of modernity. Asians are doing well because they are outstanding reverse-engineers.

    IQ isn't all. Everyone knows that, so using it as a target just makes it a straw man.

    Smart people embrace some really dumb ideas (e.g., leftism & Holy Diversity) in part because they have lots of mental horsepower to devote to rationalizing their way around the contradictions and obvious folly.

    I joined Colloquy Society and was utterly disappointed by the embrace of utter insanity I found there. The threshold for membership is four times more selective than Mensa.

    So much for IQ tests revealing whose got a clue. A high IQ and a dollar buys you a cup of joe at McDonald's. What is measured by an IQ test (or surrogate) is one let of a stool. A stool with one leg is a useless piece of furniture.

    High IQ people from India, China, etc. have DNA-coded cultures that are not compatible with Western Civ. Their IQ doesn't matter. Culture is all. China for the Chinese, India for Indians, Mexico for Mexicans and the USA for people whose ancestors BUILT IT.

    High IQ people from India, China, etc. have DNA-coded cultures that are not compatible with Western Civ. Their IQ doesn’t matter. Culture is all. China for the Chinese, India for Indians, Mexico for Mexicans and the USA for people whose ancestors BUILT IT.

    Indeed…

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4116252/Punch-35-000-feet-Chaotic-moment-passengers-launch-violent-brawl-flight-London-sparking-emergency-landing.html

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  71. well, Fred is right about Jews anyway; I am Jewish and I’m getting dumber by the minute, possibly because I waste my time reading articles like this one. But possibly this is more a genetic quality of people generally; one starts out smart when one is young and then gets dumber and dumber as one gets older and older. Fortunately experience can sometimes substitute for intelligence, so one can slop by.

    Apparently Black racism has been instilled in Americanism the way Jew hatred has been instilled in the West by the Christian religion. It’s an historical thing, so deeply irrational that mere reason or evidence is powerless against it. Maybe the rise of Africa, which is increasing its economic product much faster than America, will influence American cretinism about African Americans, the way Israel did about Jews. Hopefully most of the racist on these racist blogs will have gone to Hell by then, a largely White homeland.

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    • Replies: @utu
    "Apparently Black racism has been instilled in Americanism the way Jew hatred has been instilled in the West by the Christian religion. It’s an historical thing, so deeply irrational that mere reason or evidence is powerless against it."

    Stop projecting. Jews hate everybody. Sometimes for good reason and sometime for irrational reasons. Also Anti-Semitism is sometimes irrational but sometime it is quite rational.
    , @anon

    the way Jew hatred has been instilled in the West by the Christian religion
     
    usury is parasitic

    it may not have been Jews fault they ended up in the money-lending niche but once they did the cycle of
    - Jewish wealth
    - economic collapse
    - anti-Jewish backlash
    was inevitable.
    , @Pierre
    Without the billions from holocaust reparations and the billions handed-out to Israel over the years by US tax payers, without the billions from the jewish diaspora, Israel would be nowhere. Still, Israel must be the ugliest country you can imagine. Millions of tons of concrete everywhere, ugly high rises growing like mushrooms and walls everywhere to keep the savages out. Without millions of workers from China and elsewhere the Jews would never be able to maintain this artificial country. Jews hate physical work, too tiring and too hard for their lazy brains. They prefer to argue endlessly about meaningless problems. Their greatest strength lies in deception and how to steal money and ideas from everybody else. There's a reason why most people hate them.
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  72. Dan Hayes says:
    @Jim Bob Lassiter
    An speaking of Cartegena, Colombia-- their elite engineers live a few miles to the north.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_VKWLC87Uzw

    Jim Bob Lassiter:

    I would contrast this use (or what the more squeamous would term the abuse) of donkeys with the care and devotion to these animals that I have witnessed in the “Donkey Sanctuaries” in the Irish Republic and England.

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  73. utu says:
    @folktruther
    well, Fred is right about Jews anyway; I am Jewish and I'm getting dumber by the minute, possibly because I waste my time reading articles like this one. But possibly this is more a genetic quality of people generally; one starts out smart when one is young and then gets dumber and dumber as one gets older and older. Fortunately experience can sometimes substitute for intelligence, so one can slop by.

    Apparently Black racism has been instilled in Americanism the way Jew hatred has been instilled in the West by the Christian religion. It's an historical thing, so deeply irrational that mere reason or evidence is powerless against it. Maybe the rise of Africa, which is increasing its economic product much faster than America, will influence American cretinism about African Americans, the way Israel did about Jews. Hopefully most of the racist on these racist blogs will have gone to Hell by then, a largely White homeland.

    “Apparently Black racism has been instilled in Americanism the way Jew hatred has been instilled in the West by the Christian religion. It’s an historical thing, so deeply irrational that mere reason or evidence is powerless against it.”

    Stop projecting. Jews hate everybody. Sometimes for good reason and sometime for irrational reasons. Also Anti-Semitism is sometimes irrational but sometime it is quite rational.

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  74. Colombia LOL.

    List of countries by intentional homicide rate
    Colombia 27.9
    Denmark 1.0

    [MORE]

    Colombia 2016 Crime & Safety Report: Cartagena
    … In rural areas, public and private buses have been attacked by the terrorist groups Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia (FARC) and National Liberation Army (ELN) and by organized crime elements Bandas Criminales (BACRIM). Terrorists, criminals, and demonstrators sometimes burn buses.

    Americans serving at the U.S. diplomatic mission to Colombia and their families must ask for permission to travel throughout much of Colombia. Embassy official Americans and their families are not permitted to travel by road outside of urban areas at night. They are required to fly to most major cities. All Americans in Colombia are urged to follow these precautions.

    In general, road conditions in the major cities are adequate, but not good, for vehicle travel. Traffic in Cartagena is congested and road conditions are often poor, contributing to traffic accidents and creating opportunities for criminals to rob vehicles. In rural areas, roads can be substandard and dangerous (no emergency lanes, poor lighting), and landslides frequently close roads. Accident response in rural areas is slow. Travel at night is also dangerous due to the potential for accidents along mountain roads and violence from criminal groups.

    The Colombian National Police (CNP) has a presence on major roads, including at well-marked, fixed checkpoints. The government deploys extra security to promote road travel during holidays. Outside of these periods and in rural areas, terrorists and criminals can make road travel dangerous. In areas where the government does not have a strong presence, terrorist and criminal groups have set up roadblocks to rob and kidnap travelers.

    Traffic laws, including speed limits, are often not obeyed/enforced, creating chaotic and dangerous conditions for drivers and pedestrians.

    Colombia is in the midst of a decades-long conflict, pitting the government against two leftist terrorist organizations (the FARC and ELN) and organized crime groups (BACRIMs) that evolved from demobilized right-wing paramilitary organizations. The FARC, ELN, and BACRIM are well-organized criminal enterprises that regularly carry out kidnappings, extortion, assassinations, bombings, and other terroristic activities throughout Colombia. Throughout the conflict, over 225,000 Colombians have lost their lives, and six million have been forcibly displaced.

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  75. … Maya Indians with a mean IQ of 83
    … They also also invented writing, done perhaps three times on the planet, and had a fully functional, positional, base-20 number system complete with zero.

    No one ever said people with an IQ of 83 can’t read or do simple arithmetic. Stone masonry is obsolete 4,000 year old technology, literally stone age. That makes them qualified to tile driveways, and many are in fact now employed doing just that.

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  76. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer

    I can’t believe this is so hard to understand.

    The Indian iq is indeed 81. If you spend time in India you will see this yourself.

    The reason there are so many smart Indians in America and top university posts is because India is a caste society. So the upper smarter classes never intermarry with the dumber lower classes.

    This leaves a very intelligent upper crust in India which is responsible for the arts and science. And a huge amount of lower caste Indians who are barely functional in a modern world.

    The smart fraction in India is a tiny tiny proportion compared to the lower iq lower caste society. Hence the low average iq.

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  77. It is quite obvious that within ethnicities IQ is both measurable and heritable. Clever parent tend to have clever kids. Between different ethnicities this is much more difficult. It simply makes no sense that 50% of all Subsaharan Africans are as intelligent as whites who get counted as “retarded”. This matches in no way with any of my experiences with subsaharan Africans.

    “Do you really, really think that perfect health, eleven years of schooling, and exposure to the internet do not give them an advantage in IQ over illiterate unhealthy peasants?”
    I think perfect health make a difference but eleven years of school not.

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  78. @Jus' Sayin'...

    "...Humans have only one instinct: the sucking instinct of infants...."
     
    WRONG! Ask someone who's ever had any intense physical contact with another human being. The very first time that happened that person undoubtedly felt an irresistible urge to grind their pelvis against that of their partner, even in the absence of training or the presence of "moral" training that suggested such behavior is wrong. This is exactly equivalent to the instinct towards lordosis exhibited in rats, mice, and other mammals.

    I could describe a score of other human instincts but I'll leave that as an exercise for the ill informed student who raised the issue.

    The very first time that happened that person undoubtedly felt an irresistible urge to grind their pelvis against that of their partner, even in the absence of training or the presence of “moral” training that suggested such behavior is wrong.

    Again: feelings aren’t instinct, by definition. Grinding also isn’t an instinct. Even walking isn’t an instinct.

    Building nests, or beaver dams, or suckling is an instinct. Something is an instinct if a) it is something you’re born with, and not something you have to learn or practice, and b) if it is complex, structured behavior in a series of steps.

    You’re confusing instinct with reflexes and unconscious behavior. Reflexes are something you’re born with, but they aren’t complex behavior. (I.e., jerking your hand when you touch a stove, or moving your pelvis during sex.)

    Unconscious behavior (walking, catching a ball or riding a bicycle) can be complex, but you’re not born with it. (Kids won’t learn to walk by themselves if left alone, see feral kids.)

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  79. @utu
    Mr. Fred Reed, I liked this article very much. It was refreshing. It is good to shake up those IQers from the mutual admiration society particularly here at unz.com where they like to spout their pathetic and often vile wisdoms without much challenge from anybody.

    It is interesting that the group think can make so many seeming intelligent people to be so wrong. Climate science is just another example. I think that people with science or engineering background are particularly susceptible. Is it a lure of reductionism? What is behind it? What does drive these individuals to become a herd?

    "There are some ideas so wrong that only a very intelligent person could believe in them." George Orwell

    Climate science is just another example. I think that people with science or engineering background are particularly susceptible.

    Yes, those people certainly know nothing about how the world works.

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    • Replies: @utu
    "Yes, those people certainly know nothing about how the world works."

    Engineers and scientist make things that often work in this world. Knowing how the world works is entirely different ball game.
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  80. br. says:

    not that you haven’t emberassed yourself enough with that language here on these racist blogs, but could you give an example of an African economic miracle? or how it relates to economic expectations of Israel at founding? I might be wrong, but I’m pretty sure nobody was claiming that Israel couldn’t succeed because the jews were less bright?

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    • Replies: @Max Payne
    Nothing to do with intelligence son.

    When you steal land, have the West give free handouts and extend its political clout, and solidify a nation which relies on an industry and economy based on bombing helpless villagers in the name of some religious dogma then any half-blind monkey can become successful.

    No one had the level of assistance that Israel received in founding a nation to compare it to anything else.

    You'd actually have to be a special type of retard to fail with those odds.
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  81. @woodNfish
    A quibble - the Irish are not European as Ireland, an island, is not part of the European continent. Same for Brits.

    “A quibble – the Irish are not European as Ireland, an island, is not part of the European continent. Same for Brits.”

    Right. Just as Sicily is not part of Europe. And Long Island is not part of North America.

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  82. @anon

    And on a slightly different point, what do you think about Fred Reed’s idea that IQ and intelligence are very different things? He admits that blacks have low IQs and have achieved next to nothing. However, I see his point that a lack of intelligence is less easy to spot in, say, Indians, Mexicans and South Americans, despite their measured low IQ.
     
    The majority of blacks have shittious executive function, while hispanics, while it's not stellar, tend to get the job done, more or less, although designing and building sky scrapers probably isn't in their wheel house. I would say the metropolis photos submitted here by the author, claiming hispanics ability to nation-build has more to do with hispanic's ability to hand off the big brain stuff to the Germans. German archetects and builders likely have a lot to do with this, just as they are primarily responsible for the sky scrapers, and other architectual wonders in Dubai.

    Speaking of which, I recall speaking to a contractor who's american company handled some of the electrical infrastructure of Dubai and surrounding areas. He said Arabs don't have an affinity to maintenance of their power grid structure, and the further out he went, the worse it got. He worked on power lines out in the desert that hadn't be serviced in a decade. He said they don't seem to believe in, or put much value on telephone line maintenance or power cables, and they'd rot out and fail if his company wasn't running about keeping them online. He said, left on their own, areas throughout Saudi Arabia would go dark after a few years.

    “The majority of blacks have shittious executive function . . .”

    Bringing executive function into the discussion is of tremendous importance. It helps explain, among other things, why a brilliant person with a high IQ can be functionally illiterate. It can also help understand why people who are genetically intelligent, yet raised in a simple culture, won’t have developed the ability to function in a more complex culture.

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  83. anon says: • Disclaimer
    @folktruther
    well, Fred is right about Jews anyway; I am Jewish and I'm getting dumber by the minute, possibly because I waste my time reading articles like this one. But possibly this is more a genetic quality of people generally; one starts out smart when one is young and then gets dumber and dumber as one gets older and older. Fortunately experience can sometimes substitute for intelligence, so one can slop by.

    Apparently Black racism has been instilled in Americanism the way Jew hatred has been instilled in the West by the Christian religion. It's an historical thing, so deeply irrational that mere reason or evidence is powerless against it. Maybe the rise of Africa, which is increasing its economic product much faster than America, will influence American cretinism about African Americans, the way Israel did about Jews. Hopefully most of the racist on these racist blogs will have gone to Hell by then, a largely White homeland.

    the way Jew hatred has been instilled in the West by the Christian religion

    usury is parasitic

    it may not have been Jews fault they ended up in the money-lending niche but once they did the cycle of
    - Jewish wealth
    - economic collapse
    - anti-Jewish backlash
    was inevitable.

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  84. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QhtfizONYOc This problem has been around for a long time…

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  85. I love Fred, but he is a bit off course on this one. Yes, IQ matters, He used Cartagena, Colombia as an example of how 84 IQ people can build and maintain such a fine place. Sorry to shoot down his theories but here goes. Colombia received more Spanish (white) immigrants than any other Spanish colony during the colonial period. Of course, the relatively few immigrants since then have been almost all white. Colombia has a 50 percent white population at the time of independence, with most of the rest mestizos. There were, of course, still parts of the native population and black slaves, mainly along the coasts. With every generation since the “white” percentage of genes has increased because more of the white babies survived. The mean IQ of Colombia might well be 84 percent, but that is because the average is dragged down by the large black populations of the costal regions. I have news for Fred: Quibdo, Choco Department (about 100 percent black) does not look a bit like Cartagena. Ditto Buenaventura, a nasty, filthy, all-black hellhole. The truth is that the mostly white (and high IQ) middle and upper classes build places like Cartagena, besides producing some of the most stunning women on earth. Colombia has plenty of whites and, while it has its problems, is a far modern and pleasant place than many of its close neighbors. A relatively small group of high IQ whites, firmly in control, can make a very low IQ country a pretty impressive place, South Africa under the white regime being the most glaring example of this.

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    • Replies: @utu
    "I have news for Fred: Quibdo, Choco Department (about 100 percent black) does not look a bit like Cartagena."

    Many places do not look a bit like Cartagena:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hBGWY_rGny4
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  86. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer

    IQ tests reflect whatever the IQ test creator wants it to reflect. Other than that, it’s just bull.

    A majority of the people taking IQ tests will get a score lower than they wished.
    A majority is ever going to play down, and hard, intelligence tests significance.

    As for South America & Reed: you don’t talk with someone in mad love of the object of their love, because it makes no sense.

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    • Replies: @Santoculto
    No, Marilyn vos Savant is not a genius because she scored super higher in IQ tests, sorry for that!

    IQ is not intelligence,

    IQ is a mean to MEASURE intelligence, period,

    IQ measure the size of intelligence, partly, specially their cognitive aspects, but don't MEASURE their quality,

    to have a bigger intelligence is not always the same to have a better intelligence.

    IQ by now don't MEASURE rationality/wisdom and creativity skills/potential,

    IQ don't measure psychopatic traits.

    Use only IQ tests as parameter of intelligence and to select people to occupy decisive positions has been proved a wrong thing to do.

    Unfortunately or not most of IQ-criticizers are very liberal in their ideology, or better, on the left. So most of their criticisms as Freed did here in this post end up serving to fuel their ideological beliefs but they are not completely wrong to criticize IQ tests and many of their criticisms, namely without try to descredit racial/ethnic/group differences, are far to be incongruent.

    For example, ''IQ tests measure what IQ tests measure'', well, this assumption is far to be wrong, seems self-evident, ;)

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  87. Tulip says:

    This work is confused.

    I.) The Metaphysical: What is Intelligence? How can it be Measured? Sigh.

    II.) Bloody Knuckles: Does IQ have predictive validity? If we measure two children at age 11 as having an 85 and 115 IQ, can we predict anything about their prospects in life and longevity?

    Yes, IQ has strong predictive validity.

    III.) Is IQ genetic? All evidence suggests IQ is partially genetic, although the degree outcomes are attributable to strictly genetic factors over environmental or individual factors is debated.

    The liberals lead with I., ignore or minimize II., and if trapped, cling to strict environmental or mostly environmental on III.

    The racialists ignore I., gloat regarding II, and tend to deny or minimize environmental factors with respect to III.

    No one seems to focus on the individual factors, the big known unknown above.

    That is because liberals and racialists aren’t really staking out a position on empirical data, they are staking out an ideological stance for political reasons. Both positions are partially true, ergo, both are wrong. The racialist perspective is more important, because it exposes the weaknesses in the structure of the conventional wisdom.

    Developments in epigenetics are likely to make the whole story a lot more complicated.

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  88. Dwright says:
    @Negrolphin Pool
    Start downtown. Drive between one and two miles, heading northeast on Gratiot St. Take any left.

    Keep driving until you change your mind.

    “Start downtown. Drive between one and two miles, heading northeast on Gratiot St. Take any left.

    Keep driving until you change your mind.”

    Yes, been working around there the last month. No, I will not be taking any impromptu tours. I know Detroit and it’s denizens far too well.

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  89. Tulip says:

    BTW where are all these liberal IQ skeptics when the State of Texas wants to gas some serial killer with an IQ of 65?

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  90. rec1man says:

    India has a 3 layer IQ structure

    The top layer – 20%, consists of Brahmins, Merchants, Scribes, Nobility etc

    The middle layer – 40% consists of Patels, Sikhs, peasants

    Bottom layer – 40%, Muslims, Untouchables, Forest Tribals

    Per Devesh Kapur book, The other 1%,

    In the USA, this group, mainly Tamils, Telugu, Maharashtrians and Bengali Hindus
    has a median household income of $140K, far above Jews, and for comparison, Bangladeshi ( muslims from a low caste origin ) have median household income of $40K

    Caribbean Indians, also from a low caste have similar performance to Bangladeshi

    *2nd Generation Indians in USA, show no signs of regression to mean, in fact they have widened performance gap vs whites , much more than 1st generation Indians, per the Devesh Kapur book

    If you look at US National Merit, for California 2017,
    there are 125 Jews vs 275 Indians, but zoom-in further and 125 Indians are Brahmins, 65 are Merchants, 60 are Dravidian ( South Indian ) Landlords – all from layer 1

    and just 3 Sikhs and 4 Patels – from layer 2
    But Sikhs in USA have median household income of $80k and Patels about $120k, vs $55k for whites

    This is because even lower IQ Indians dont tolerate unwed mothers, alchoholism, drugs , crime etc

    *Devesh Kapur also documents that Indians in Australia, Canada, New Zealand, UK also outperform almost everybody else

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  91. Max Payne says:

    I feel as if the vast majority of those that believe in IQ are scared old white men who have never left their incest-laden villages. Or worse, young “intellectuals” who has never traveled outside the Western sphere of influence.

    People go on comparing things like inventions or cities and quality of life but the West is in such decline I can’t help but notice how Eastern cities, such as Shanghai or Singapore, are vastly superior. I assure you I’m no fan of the Chinese for obvious reasons (their social etiquette leaves much to be desired) but….

    In the East I’ve seen transportation systems move tens of millions of people without a hitch. I’ve seen more luxury then I would ever see in places like Monaco. I’ve noticed large expat communities spring up in almost every major city in China. I’ve seen major floods and natural disasters appropriately handled with military efficiency saving both lives and property (heck I can remember the cluster-f**k that happened after Katrina and that’s the reaction of a world “super power”…).

    Some guy up above posted about how none of these countries invent anything, they can just mimic. I can’t help but laugh considering peoples from China invented silk, paper, gunpowder, an early civilization that mastered war before anyone could grasp organized group violence (not to mention indirect warfare such as subterfuge and counterintelligence).

    But I guess its just better to bang your sister and pretend you belong to a race of intellectuals while turning a blind eye to the fact vast stretches of Western scientific and technological positions are loaded with Indians (because the white man refuses to work hard for some reason).

    Sure… I won’t deny the East has lots of slums and an underclass that’s in permanent poverty which can only contribute raw labor as its contribution to society. However the West also has its slums and ghettos which draws the underclass black society, white trash, and criminal Hispanics. The difference is in the East quality of life is improving even for those who are on the cusp of social death (a billionaire is created everyday in China)….in the West the middle class is being butchered for a few points on the stock exchange.

    Read More
    • Agree: CanSpeccy
    • Replies: @Erik Sieven
    "In the East I’ve seen transportation systems move tens of millions of people without a hitch"
    I have the impression that public transportation is something which works better for East Asians than for Non East Asians. Amongst Non East Asians there are always males who look out for fights, want tp preserve their honor etc. I don´t know whether testosterone is the reason for this. But I would guess that transportation for an all female western society could work almost as good as transportation is East Asian countries
    , @KenH

    People go on comparing things like inventions or cities and quality of life but the West is in such decline I can’t help but notice how Eastern cities, such as Shanghai or Singapore, are vastly superior.
     
    This is because China isn't forced by a Jewish elite and racially masochistic Chinamen to import hordes of Africans, Latinos and Muslims who turn once beautiful cities into hellholes of vice and crime. Thanks to greedy Western capitalists China enjoys a massive trade surplus which enables them to build and maintain these great cities and their advanced transportation systems. They deserve credit for what they've accomplished but without the West willingly moving half or more of its industrial base into China and the wealth and technology transfers derived therefrom these cities would still be mostly rice paddies and their most sophisticated pieces of military hardware would be outdated MIGs and AK-47's.

    ...while turning a blind eye to the fact vast stretches of Western scientific and technological positions are loaded with Indians (because the white man refuses to work hard for some reason).
     
    Have you ever worked in a large corporation or worked at all with Indians? Large corporations hire Indians not because they possess genius lacking in white Americans but primarily because they work for about 1/3 the salary of a white American. I'm sure I'm not the only one who has called a tech support line only to be greeted by an Indian reading off a screen who has no earthly idea on how to fix your problem. I've also worked with Indians in a professional capacity and while they are superior to blacks and with perhaps a few exceptions their skills are nothing to write home about and I've never seen a more overrated group of people.

    ....in the West the middle class is being butchered for a few points on the stock exchange.
     
    On that point we are 100% in agreement.
    , @anon
    Three phases

    1) East was ahead - interesting question is why did it stagnate?

    2) West was ahead - interesting question is why did it explode?

    3) Western decline - why so?

    The answer to the 3rd question is simple - the Western world is being destroyed from within by a parasite.
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  92. Max Payne says:
    @br.
    not that you haven't emberassed yourself enough with that language here on these racist blogs, but could you give an example of an African economic miracle? or how it relates to economic expectations of Israel at founding? I might be wrong, but I'm pretty sure nobody was claiming that Israel couldn't succeed because the jews were less bright?

    Nothing to do with intelligence son.

    When you steal land, have the West give free handouts and extend its political clout, and solidify a nation which relies on an industry and economy based on bombing helpless villagers in the name of some religious dogma then any half-blind monkey can become successful.

    No one had the level of assistance that Israel received in founding a nation to compare it to anything else.

    You’d actually have to be a special type of retard to fail with those odds.

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  93. Good points. The silliest thing about IQ extremism is the awfully weak data much of these ‘averages’ are based on, especially in the third world. I spend a couple months a year in a third world country and have up close experience of what passes for ‘education’ in its public schools. The idea that kids who have been taught literally no analytical reasoning in their entire lives and instead been given a diet of 100% mindless rote learning would be able to demonstrate a real ‘genetic potential’ or ‘deep intelligence’ on an IQ test is laughable. And btw when kids from that country do get a real education (rare) they have demonstrated excellence in difficult, technical areas, beyond what one would expect of a relatively small population.

    Read More
    • Replies: @anon

    The silliest thing about IQ extremism is the awfully weak data much of these ‘averages’ are based on, especially in the third world.
     
    If the blank slatists believed their argument they wouldn't be so resistant to extensive data collection.

    They are terrified of comprehensive IQ testing because they know it's true.
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  94. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @dc.sunsets

    I wouldn’t replace one of my kids for a high IQ Indian kid, so why would I let them into my country.
     
    Ditto.

    My ancestors made the USA what it was in the 1960's (at its peak.) My ancestors were stupid enough to invite everyone and their village idiot to join the party, move next door and date my grand kids.

    Thanks for the former, but you really screwed up on the latter.

    The Holy Sacrament of Diversity is going to be overturned (it's in the process of turning now) and the result will prove that Diversity + Proximity = War (sooner or later.) I chose to live in a place surrounded by people who are quiet like me, law-abiding like me, who keep their property neat like me, who respect the property of others like me, and who are considerate to their neighbors as I am.

    Inviting people who hold "diverse" approaches to all this irritates me (at best), and stands a good chance of enraging me at some point.

    Those who celebrate the sacrament of Holy Diversity by inflicting their cult religion on the rest of us need to be beaten senseless and dumped in a deep well.

    The Holy Sacrament of Diversity is going to be overturned (it’s in the process of turning now) and the result will prove that Diversity + Proximity = War (sooner or later.)

    But the war will not begin in earnest before fighting-age whites and Christians are outnumbered both in the US and Europe. Then it’ll be game over for the Europeans not only in North America but in Europe, an outcome our “leaders” evidently intend.

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    • Replies: @dc.sunsets
    Perhaps, but I think home field will be an advantage. Me & mine have nowhere else to go. The invaders know where they can retreat to.
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  95. polistra says:

    National economic success comes from the ability to organize and accomplish the right goals, which has no connection to IQ. America’s economic success in 1960 was built on the systematic work of uneducated and low-IQ people, and we REWARDED those uneducated people for their work.

    Russia had much better education but much less economic success because Russians don’t organize well.

    We’re no longer successful because our government and corporations no longer bother to organize and REWARD the work of ordinary people.

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  96. @Gene Su
    I think the classic mistake that racialists make is to assume that IQ/intelligence is only determined by one's genes. Long post follows.

    I am a first-gen East Asian. I believe that there are other independent variables that IQ depends on such as discipline, attitude, culture, and emotional state. While environment does effect IQ it is also true that culture affects environment.

    Here's what I think about blacks: I don't think they are dumb at all. I think the reason they don't like to learn in school is because they watch a lot of TV telling them that they don't have to or are not supposed to learn anything in school. Just look at the 80's hit sitcom Saved By the Bell. The nerd of the group, Screech, is mocked furiously. The other two males are held in higher regard. Slater was a Jock. Zack was an ultra social slacker. Ultra social slackers and jocks ... blacks fit into those two archtypes. Note that Zack and Slater are white.

    One last note: I don't see much difference between rowdy blacks and the rowdy whites who gave me a hard time during my public school days, even if rowdy whites are "smarter" by one standard deviation. If things don't turn around, there is gonna be a white underclass.

    http://www.theamericanconservative.com/dreher/honey-boo-boo-nation/

    You’re an Asian. You don’t belong in the West. The West is Caucasian, European. You have slanted eyes, black hair, yellowish skin. You are physically not acceptable. You can use your IQ in Asia.

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  97. FLgeezer says:

    Chinese architects and capital are likely responsible for Cartagena flourishing. They own the west end of the Panama Canal (see Panama City, Panama skyline) and now the east end too. America spends its capital killing innocents in the Middle East. China spends its capital encouraging development and making friends internationally. In doing so, they have established a ligature to our south with which to strangle America.

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  98. KenH says:

    It seems Fred’s ulterior motive in writing articles like this is so that whites will become more amenable to allowing the entire nation of Mexico to migrate north to the U.S. and Canada. He keeps trying to sell the mestizo to white Americans just like the Jewish media moguls sell the negro to whites and particularly white females.

    If Fred really thinks IQ is overrated and that mestizos are the equals of white Americans then fine, but that doesn’t mean we are obligated interbreed with them and become Brazil Norte.

    IQ is important and should be given proper weight but white Europeans also have a whole range of racial characteristics beyond IQ that makes their nations so functional and livable and why third worlders find our nations so desirable and much preferable to their own.

    I would have to believe real hard to believe that the large number of incandescently smart Indians who litter Silicon Valley,

    But where is the equivalent of Silicon Valley in India, Fred? And the technology they’ve mastered sufficient to work in that field was invented and pioneered by white men and they largely learned it in Western institutions of learning. There’s articles around the net about the overpopulation in India and resultant shortage of residential latrines which forces a segment of the population to defecate in farm fields, city streets and private residences. If Indians are collectively so intelligent and the intellectual equals or betters of Europeans then why can’t they remedy this problem?

    Read More
    • Replies: @FLgeezer
    >And the technology they've mastered sufficient to work in that field was invented and pioneered by white men and they largely learned it in Western institutions of learning.

    Spot on KenH! And your comment applies equally well to Israelis. Their alleged software wizardy is all accomplished using western programming languages, compilers, and debuggers. They are however, exceptionally strong in industrial espionage and theft. I must give credit where credit is due. ☹️
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  99. @Max Payne
    I feel as if the vast majority of those that believe in IQ are scared old white men who have never left their incest-laden villages. Or worse, young "intellectuals" who has never traveled outside the Western sphere of influence.

    People go on comparing things like inventions or cities and quality of life but the West is in such decline I can't help but notice how Eastern cities, such as Shanghai or Singapore, are vastly superior. I assure you I'm no fan of the Chinese for obvious reasons (their social etiquette leaves much to be desired) but....

    In the East I've seen transportation systems move tens of millions of people without a hitch. I've seen more luxury then I would ever see in places like Monaco. I've noticed large expat communities spring up in almost every major city in China. I've seen major floods and natural disasters appropriately handled with military efficiency saving both lives and property (heck I can remember the cluster-f**k that happened after Katrina and that's the reaction of a world "super power"...).

    Some guy up above posted about how none of these countries invent anything, they can just mimic. I can't help but laugh considering peoples from China invented silk, paper, gunpowder, an early civilization that mastered war before anyone could grasp organized group violence (not to mention indirect warfare such as subterfuge and counterintelligence).

    But I guess its just better to bang your sister and pretend you belong to a race of intellectuals while turning a blind eye to the fact vast stretches of Western scientific and technological positions are loaded with Indians (because the white man refuses to work hard for some reason).

    Sure... I won't deny the East has lots of slums and an underclass that's in permanent poverty which can only contribute raw labor as its contribution to society. However the West also has its slums and ghettos which draws the underclass black society, white trash, and criminal Hispanics. The difference is in the East quality of life is improving even for those who are on the cusp of social death (a billionaire is created everyday in China)....in the West the middle class is being butchered for a few points on the stock exchange.

    “In the East I’ve seen transportation systems move tens of millions of people without a hitch”
    I have the impression that public transportation is something which works better for East Asians than for Non East Asians. Amongst Non East Asians there are always males who look out for fights, want tp preserve their honor etc. I don´t know whether testosterone is the reason for this. But I would guess that transportation for an all female western society could work almost as good as transportation is East Asian countries

    Read More
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  100. KenH says:
    @Max Payne
    I feel as if the vast majority of those that believe in IQ are scared old white men who have never left their incest-laden villages. Or worse, young "intellectuals" who has never traveled outside the Western sphere of influence.

    People go on comparing things like inventions or cities and quality of life but the West is in such decline I can't help but notice how Eastern cities, such as Shanghai or Singapore, are vastly superior. I assure you I'm no fan of the Chinese for obvious reasons (their social etiquette leaves much to be desired) but....

    In the East I've seen transportation systems move tens of millions of people without a hitch. I've seen more luxury then I would ever see in places like Monaco. I've noticed large expat communities spring up in almost every major city in China. I've seen major floods and natural disasters appropriately handled with military efficiency saving both lives and property (heck I can remember the cluster-f**k that happened after Katrina and that's the reaction of a world "super power"...).

    Some guy up above posted about how none of these countries invent anything, they can just mimic. I can't help but laugh considering peoples from China invented silk, paper, gunpowder, an early civilization that mastered war before anyone could grasp organized group violence (not to mention indirect warfare such as subterfuge and counterintelligence).

    But I guess its just better to bang your sister and pretend you belong to a race of intellectuals while turning a blind eye to the fact vast stretches of Western scientific and technological positions are loaded with Indians (because the white man refuses to work hard for some reason).

    Sure... I won't deny the East has lots of slums and an underclass that's in permanent poverty which can only contribute raw labor as its contribution to society. However the West also has its slums and ghettos which draws the underclass black society, white trash, and criminal Hispanics. The difference is in the East quality of life is improving even for those who are on the cusp of social death (a billionaire is created everyday in China)....in the West the middle class is being butchered for a few points on the stock exchange.

    People go on comparing things like inventions or cities and quality of life but the West is in such decline I can’t help but notice how Eastern cities, such as Shanghai or Singapore, are vastly superior.

    This is because China isn’t forced by a Jewish elite and racially masochistic Chinamen to import hordes of Africans, Latinos and Muslims who turn once beautiful cities into hellholes of vice and crime. Thanks to greedy Western capitalists China enjoys a massive trade surplus which enables them to build and maintain these great cities and their advanced transportation systems. They deserve credit for what they’ve accomplished but without the West willingly moving half or more of its industrial base into China and the wealth and technology transfers derived therefrom these cities would still be mostly rice paddies and their most sophisticated pieces of military hardware would be outdated MIGs and AK-47′s.

    …while turning a blind eye to the fact vast stretches of Western scientific and technological positions are loaded with Indians (because the white man refuses to work hard for some reason).

    Have you ever worked in a large corporation or worked at all with Indians? Large corporations hire Indians not because they possess genius lacking in white Americans but primarily because they work for about 1/3 the salary of a white American. I’m sure I’m not the only one who has called a tech support line only to be greeted by an Indian reading off a screen who has no earthly idea on how to fix your problem. I’ve also worked with Indians in a professional capacity and while they are superior to blacks and with perhaps a few exceptions their skills are nothing to write home about and I’ve never seen a more overrated group of people.

    ….in the West the middle class is being butchered for a few points on the stock exchange.

    On that point we are 100% in agreement.

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  101. @Santoculto
    You're confusing cultural with cognitive aspects. Avg americans have partially similar cultural level tastes than avg mexicans, i said partially. Avg americans tend to be little sophisticated AS WELL avg mexicans... period.

    But to learn things avg americans are overwhelm* better than avg mexicans, that's the crucial question you're missing.

    Just because you're married a mexican woman you are doing it*

    Cherchez la femme/le homme is always critical. Reed has a Mexican wife so we know what his angle is. Like John Derbyshire who has a Chinese wife – critical of Christianity the religion of the West, but always helps his wife with her pagan ancestor worship rituals.

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  102. Consider the possibility that IQ is a metric created by academics for the purposes of measuring what academic weenies think is important.

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  103. RobRich says: • Website

    The Libertarians (WASPS/Spanish elites) and fans have the right idea–after raising IQ’s with capitalism / Flynn effect to 140 in 1900 terms, raise base IQ to 145 (i.e. not most of you) in constantly adjusted terms and while promoting free immigration, that also means expansion of the US to most of the globe and outer space.

    The US (and Russian) military gets it. They love Libertarians.

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  104. Pierre says:
    @folktruther
    well, Fred is right about Jews anyway; I am Jewish and I'm getting dumber by the minute, possibly because I waste my time reading articles like this one. But possibly this is more a genetic quality of people generally; one starts out smart when one is young and then gets dumber and dumber as one gets older and older. Fortunately experience can sometimes substitute for intelligence, so one can slop by.

    Apparently Black racism has been instilled in Americanism the way Jew hatred has been instilled in the West by the Christian religion. It's an historical thing, so deeply irrational that mere reason or evidence is powerless against it. Maybe the rise of Africa, which is increasing its economic product much faster than America, will influence American cretinism about African Americans, the way Israel did about Jews. Hopefully most of the racist on these racist blogs will have gone to Hell by then, a largely White homeland.

    Without the billions from holocaust reparations and the billions handed-out to Israel over the years by US tax payers, without the billions from the jewish diaspora, Israel would be nowhere. Still, Israel must be the ugliest country you can imagine. Millions of tons of concrete everywhere, ugly high rises growing like mushrooms and walls everywhere to keep the savages out. Without millions of workers from China and elsewhere the Jews would never be able to maintain this artificial country. Jews hate physical work, too tiring and too hard for their lazy brains. They prefer to argue endlessly about meaningless problems. Their greatest strength lies in deception and how to steal money and ideas from everybody else. There’s a reason why most people hate them.

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  105. I always laugh at the way people use Indians as an example for how I.Q tests are wrong .

    Have any of you ever seen India ? It is one of the most dirty and disease-ridden places on the planet. Its the definition of a third world country.

    Even the Brahmin thing is laughable.

    the Brahmin are the top 10-15% of the country and have a mean of 96, which is exactly what we would expect from a population with a mean in the 80s.

    Its like saying that doctors in the Italy are a separate group from the rest of the population.

    If you want to know how smart a country is just look at it . No need for fancy theories.

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  106. utu says:
    @Chris Bridges
    I love Fred, but he is a bit off course on this one. Yes, IQ matters, He used Cartagena, Colombia as an example of how 84 IQ people can build and maintain such a fine place. Sorry to shoot down his theories but here goes. Colombia received more Spanish (white) immigrants than any other Spanish colony during the colonial period. Of course, the relatively few immigrants since then have been almost all white. Colombia has a 50 percent white population at the time of independence, with most of the rest mestizos. There were, of course, still parts of the native population and black slaves, mainly along the coasts. With every generation since the "white" percentage of genes has increased because more of the white babies survived. The mean IQ of Colombia might well be 84 percent, but that is because the average is dragged down by the large black populations of the costal regions. I have news for Fred: Quibdo, Choco Department (about 100 percent black) does not look a bit like Cartagena. Ditto Buenaventura, a nasty, filthy, all-black hellhole. The truth is that the mostly white (and high IQ) middle and upper classes build places like Cartagena, besides producing some of the most stunning women on earth. Colombia has plenty of whites and, while it has its problems, is a far modern and pleasant place than many of its close neighbors. A relatively small group of high IQ whites, firmly in control, can make a very low IQ country a pretty impressive place, South Africa under the white regime being the most glaring example of this.

    “I have news for Fred: Quibdo, Choco Department (about 100 percent black) does not look a bit like Cartagena.”

    Many places do not look a bit like Cartagena:

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    • Replies: @annamaria
    Thank you. I am reposting your link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hBGWY_rGny4
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  107. utu says:
    @Anatoly Karlin

    Climate science is just another example. I think that people with science or engineering background are particularly susceptible.
     
    Yes, those people certainly know nothing about how the world works.

    “Yes, those people certainly know nothing about how the world works.”

    Engineers and scientist make things that often work in this world. Knowing how the world works is entirely different ball game.

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    • Agree: Talha
    • Replies: @Astuteobservor II

    Knowing how the world works
     
    explain this in detail please, give an example or two :)
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  108. FLgeezer says:
    @KenH
    It seems Fred's ulterior motive in writing articles like this is so that whites will become more amenable to allowing the entire nation of Mexico to migrate north to the U.S. and Canada. He keeps trying to sell the mestizo to white Americans just like the Jewish media moguls sell the negro to whites and particularly white females.

    If Fred really thinks IQ is overrated and that mestizos are the equals of white Americans then fine, but that doesn't mean we are obligated interbreed with them and become Brazil Norte.

    IQ is important and should be given proper weight but white Europeans also have a whole range of racial characteristics beyond IQ that makes their nations so functional and livable and why third worlders find our nations so desirable and much preferable to their own.


    I would have to believe real hard to believe that the large number of incandescently smart Indians who litter Silicon Valley,
     
    But where is the equivalent of Silicon Valley in India, Fred? And the technology they've mastered sufficient to work in that field was invented and pioneered by white men and they largely learned it in Western institutions of learning. There's articles around the net about the overpopulation in India and resultant shortage of residential latrines which forces a segment of the population to defecate in farm fields, city streets and private residences. If Indians are collectively so intelligent and the intellectual equals or betters of Europeans then why can't they remedy this problem?

    >And the technology they’ve mastered sufficient to work in that field was invented and pioneered by white men and they largely learned it in Western institutions of learning.

    Spot on KenH! And your comment applies equally well to Israelis. Their alleged software wizardy is all accomplished using western programming languages, compilers, and debuggers. They are however, exceptionally strong in industrial espionage and theft. I must give credit where credit is due. ☹️

    Read More
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  109. anon says: • Disclaimer
    @Max Payne
    I feel as if the vast majority of those that believe in IQ are scared old white men who have never left their incest-laden villages. Or worse, young "intellectuals" who has never traveled outside the Western sphere of influence.

    People go on comparing things like inventions or cities and quality of life but the West is in such decline I can't help but notice how Eastern cities, such as Shanghai or Singapore, are vastly superior. I assure you I'm no fan of the Chinese for obvious reasons (their social etiquette leaves much to be desired) but....

    In the East I've seen transportation systems move tens of millions of people without a hitch. I've seen more luxury then I would ever see in places like Monaco. I've noticed large expat communities spring up in almost every major city in China. I've seen major floods and natural disasters appropriately handled with military efficiency saving both lives and property (heck I can remember the cluster-f**k that happened after Katrina and that's the reaction of a world "super power"...).

    Some guy up above posted about how none of these countries invent anything, they can just mimic. I can't help but laugh considering peoples from China invented silk, paper, gunpowder, an early civilization that mastered war before anyone could grasp organized group violence (not to mention indirect warfare such as subterfuge and counterintelligence).

    But I guess its just better to bang your sister and pretend you belong to a race of intellectuals while turning a blind eye to the fact vast stretches of Western scientific and technological positions are loaded with Indians (because the white man refuses to work hard for some reason).

    Sure... I won't deny the East has lots of slums and an underclass that's in permanent poverty which can only contribute raw labor as its contribution to society. However the West also has its slums and ghettos which draws the underclass black society, white trash, and criminal Hispanics. The difference is in the East quality of life is improving even for those who are on the cusp of social death (a billionaire is created everyday in China)....in the West the middle class is being butchered for a few points on the stock exchange.

    Three phases

    1) East was ahead – interesting question is why did it stagnate?

    2) West was ahead – interesting question is why did it explode?

    3) Western decline – why so?

    The answer to the 3rd question is simple – the Western world is being destroyed from within by a parasite.

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  110. Sean says:
    @Rich
    You're buying into the propaganda, Sean. The Wasps were a pretty smart group. They conquered almost half the earth, wrote the US Constitution, invented almost everything and even put a man on the moon. What have Jewish immigrants done besides leech off of that and take over institutions already set up by Wasps. I'm not a Wasp, but I have a lot of respect for their achievements and I appreciate the great country they founded here and allowed my ancestors to escape to, from poverty, and do pretty well. I'm glad my ancestors didn't make a wrong turn and end up in Palestine. Your pick for top dog hasn't exactly founded a land friendly to those of a different religion than theirs, while in this Protestant founded country, my Catholic family did fine.

    An s5053ar3y irrelevant assertion would be that the Yamnaya did not clear the land they conquered in north Europe. So what, the immigrants were superior and they proved it, as did the Conquistadors. And they took their choice of the the local women.

    The WASPs were the best test of good environment for IQ, because they had the most favourable environment for developing high IQ in the world and they were beaten at their own game by poor desperate immigrant slum dwelling Jews, every time.

    Ashkenazi Jewish immigrants were obviously superior to the American elite so the Ashkenazi advantage was genetic and not due to better nutrition, schooling or intellectual stimulation. Moreover, there has been no such superiority in subsequent non Jewish immigrants, who have not been able to even attain WASP level.

    A New York Ashkenazi Jew with the IQ of Muhammad Ali would seem obviously mentally handicapped, but Ali didn’t even though he was rejected as unsuitable for the US army on the grounds of his test result.

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    • Replies: @Santoculto

    by poor desperate immigrant slum dwelling Jews, every time.
     
    You're right about it*
    , @anon
    So your prediction is Jews will easily out-compete equally nepotistic Asian groups who have already started to out-compete them?

    Seems like a foolish prediction.

    #

    NW Euros evolved a system of voluntary large-scale cooperation that required relatively low levels of nepotism to work. This system works exceptionally well at producing surplus but is weak against internal competitors who are more nepotistic.

    Everyone knows that left alone in their own countries NW Euros would create the best places to live.

    , @Rich
    So you're a fan of the Ashkenazi subset of Jewish immigrants. Good for you. I don't see the so-called obvious superiority that you do, but I suppose we all have our own viewpoints. I see Jewish immigrants who lived in an urban environment with small families that used education and ethnic ties to get ahead and did a decent job of it. I'm not begrudging them their success here in the US, I just don't think they are any smarter than any of the other European immigrants who settled in urban environments and I don't believe they would have had the success they had if not for the Wasps allowing them into their country clubs. I guess we'll see how Israel looks in another 50 years or so and if it becomes comparable to a European nation.
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  111. anon says: • Disclaimer
    @blank-misgivings
    Good points. The silliest thing about IQ extremism is the awfully weak data much of these 'averages' are based on, especially in the third world. I spend a couple months a year in a third world country and have up close experience of what passes for 'education' in its public schools. The idea that kids who have been taught literally no analytical reasoning in their entire lives and instead been given a diet of 100% mindless rote learning would be able to demonstrate a real 'genetic potential' or 'deep intelligence' on an IQ test is laughable. And btw when kids from that country do get a real education (rare) they have demonstrated excellence in difficult, technical areas, beyond what one would expect of a relatively small population.

    The silliest thing about IQ extremism is the awfully weak data much of these ‘averages’ are based on, especially in the third world.

    If the blank slatists believed their argument they wouldn’t be so resistant to extensive data collection.

    They are terrified of comprehensive IQ testing because they know it’s true.

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  112. Another purported critique of IQ based on a handful of examples. What people that deny IQ exists (doesn’t say what IQ is, just that it measures something) tend to do is follow this script:

    1.IQ can’t exist because I know an intelligent fill-in-the-blank.
    2. IQ can’t exist because 3rd world countries have some nice buildings (maybe because they were built by 1st world companies?).
    3. IQ can’t exist because we can’t agree on what it measures.

    IQ does not mean that everyone of every race or culture is a moron. However, when you have millions of individuals within a certain population, you can make certain assumptions based on the history, performance, cleanliness, criminality, happiness, and creativity of this population. Non-white populations recognize these differences because they are beating a path to White countries as quickly as possible. If all groups are “equal” then different groups should have “equal” outcomes. They don’t, do they? Why not? Cuz YT be holdin’ dem down? Nigga, please!

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  113. @Anonymous

    IQ tests reflect whatever the IQ test creator wants it to reflect. Other than that, it’s just bull.
     
    A majority of the people taking IQ tests will get a score lower than they wished.
    A majority is ever going to play down, and hard, intelligence tests significance.

    As for South America & Reed: you don't talk with someone in mad love of the object of their love, because it makes no sense.

    No, Marilyn vos Savant is not a genius because she scored super higher in IQ tests, sorry for that!

    IQ is not intelligence,

    IQ is a mean to MEASURE intelligence, period,

    IQ measure the size of intelligence, partly, specially their cognitive aspects, but don’t MEASURE their quality,

    to have a bigger intelligence is not always the same to have a better intelligence.

    IQ by now don’t MEASURE rationality/wisdom and creativity skills/potential,

    IQ don’t measure psychopatic traits.

    Use only IQ tests as parameter of intelligence and to select people to occupy decisive positions has been proved a wrong thing to do.

    Unfortunately or not most of IQ-criticizers are very liberal in their ideology, or better, on the left. So most of their criticisms as Freed did here in this post end up serving to fuel their ideological beliefs but they are not completely wrong to criticize IQ tests and many of their criticisms, namely without try to descredit racial/ethnic/group differences, are far to be incongruent.

    For example, ”IQ tests measure what IQ tests measure”, well, this assumption is far to be wrong, seems self-evident, ;)

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  114. @Sean
    An s5053ar3y irrelevant assertion would be that the Yamnaya did not clear the land they conquered in north Europe. So what, the immigrants were superior and they proved it, as did the Conquistadors. And they took their choice of the the local women.

    The WASPs were the best test of good environment for IQ, because they had the most favourable environment for developing high IQ in the world and they were beaten at their own game by poor desperate immigrant slum dwelling Jews, every time.

    Ashkenazi Jewish immigrants were obviously superior to the American elite so the Ashkenazi advantage was genetic and not due to better nutrition, schooling or intellectual stimulation. Moreover, there has been no such superiority in subsequent non Jewish immigrants, who have not been able to even attain WASP level.

    A New York Ashkenazi Jew with the IQ of Muhammad Ali would seem obviously mentally handicapped, but Ali didn't even though he was rejected as unsuitable for the US army on the grounds of his test result.

    by poor desperate immigrant slum dwelling Jews, every time.

    You’re right about it*

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  115. Fred, as a regular on H-bd for perhaps 20 years, you should be aware that it is better described as mostly dormant rather than defunct. Also, if you had been paying attention you would have noticed that there was plenty of scepticism about the usefulness of the Lynn and Vanhenen figures (e.g. Anorigines and Khoi San average IQs of 60 ish). Philippe Rushton may not have been a sceptic but plenty were well before Ron did his demolition job in TAC.

    When I say “demolition job” I am not conceding at all that IQ measurements do not have predictive value or that whatever is measured by the tests is not substantially hereditary or that different extended families (races or clans or castes or whatever) do not have different average IQs. I also predict that a random couple of immigrant Rwandans are far more likely to produce offspring who become NBL stats than a random couple of Inuit.

    Of course sceptics of left and right should feel free to hand over their future tax affairs to their tax accountants/lawyers’ latest hire whose IQ has several times been measured at about 105. I’ll look for 125 and a good deal more when it comes to the crunches. Of course I would want to make a few other checks too: laziness, ADHD, drugs….

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  116. For example, American blacks, the Irish, and Mexicans had IQs accepted by the list as being 85, 86, and 87 respectively—almost identical.

    This is nonsense, thought nonsense beloved of the open borders and anti-IQ factions. There was never a shred of credible evidence that the Irish (who are genetically indistinguishable from the other inhabitants of the British Isles) had an IQ of 86.

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  117. EH says:

    IQ is an imperfect measure of general intelligence. General intelligence is the most common limiting factor in human performance at all jobs. More measured intelligence predicts job performance better than education, experience, resume, references, interest, age or combinations of these. Not using intelligence measures because they are racially unequal costs untold sums – all the student loans times a hefty factor, degrees are just a poor substitute for more direct measures of intelligence.

    General intelligence is, mathematically speaking, a measure of the difficulty of the problems you can solve. Country IQs are literally from one guy guesstimating based on tests that mostly weren’t designed to be IQ tests or from studies based on small or unrepresentative samples. That those country scores are unreliable says nothing about the state of the art in psychometrics. There are other factors at work as well, countries aren’t homogenous, in particular Latin American regions either have an upper class that is noticeably European or they’re generally doing badly. The fraction smart enough to be doctors, lawyers and engineers is the real limiting factor, and an upper class may provide these in a country whose lower classes wouldn’t provide a sufficient number to allow modern civilization, a situation we see in all the poorest countries. On the other hand, the upper class may not be big enough or have a high enough average intelligence for a sufficient number of professionals, so to that extent their country would still be at a low level, as with India.

    You won’t notice a difference in intelligence with another person in situations where both have enough intelligence to handle the situation. Only in situations where the difficulty is greater than the intelligence of one person but not the other will a difference in intelligence become apparent. Most daily social interactions aren’t mentally taxing enough to reveal differences in intelligence except for the very lowest levels. Even then, projection, almost anthropomorphization, makes smarter people think dumber people have an interior life that isn’t really there.

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  118. Meanwhile Jewish scores and academic achievement in America, astonishingly high a couple of generations back, have fallen precipitately.

    “Jewish scores” are notoriously difficult to measure, dependent as they are on the question ‘What’s a Jew?” But even allowing for that it seem false that Jewish IQ scores have fallen precipitately. It may seem that way to people under the mistaken impression that Jewish-American IQ was formerly in the 130 range, but there was never any good reason to believe that.

    Achievement is a whole different matter, but its connection to IQ is murky. Whites have certainly achieved much more in the fields of intellectual endeavor, historically, than have Asians, though IQ current data indicates it should be the other way around.

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  119. anon says: • Disclaimer
    @Sean
    An s5053ar3y irrelevant assertion would be that the Yamnaya did not clear the land they conquered in north Europe. So what, the immigrants were superior and they proved it, as did the Conquistadors. And they took their choice of the the local women.

    The WASPs were the best test of good environment for IQ, because they had the most favourable environment for developing high IQ in the world and they were beaten at their own game by poor desperate immigrant slum dwelling Jews, every time.

    Ashkenazi Jewish immigrants were obviously superior to the American elite so the Ashkenazi advantage was genetic and not due to better nutrition, schooling or intellectual stimulation. Moreover, there has been no such superiority in subsequent non Jewish immigrants, who have not been able to even attain WASP level.

    A New York Ashkenazi Jew with the IQ of Muhammad Ali would seem obviously mentally handicapped, but Ali didn't even though he was rejected as unsuitable for the US army on the grounds of his test result.

    So your prediction is Jews will easily out-compete equally nepotistic Asian groups who have already started to out-compete them?

    Seems like a foolish prediction.

    #

    NW Euros evolved a system of voluntary large-scale cooperation that required relatively low levels of nepotism to work. This system works exceptionally well at producing surplus but is weak against internal competitors who are more nepotistic.

    Everyone knows that left alone in their own countries NW Euros would create the best places to live.

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  120. EH says:
    @FKA Max

    Irish people have also long been known to have large heads.
     
    This post might be of interest to you:

    [”]Brain size has increased about 350% over human evolution, but we found that blood flow to the brain increased an amazing 600%[”]

    Actually what was observed was the increasing of the foramina carotid diameter. Carotid arteries are smaller in women [ http://stroke.ahajournals.org/content/37/4/1103.full.pdf ] even after adjusting for body and neck size, age, and blood pressure. Any conclusions?” – http://m.phys.org/comments/391793277/

    Could the combination of a large brain and insufficient blood supply to it actually mean less brain power? Is the ratio between blood supply (carotid artery diameter) and brain size the true determinant of intelligence/brain power? Of course, a big brain plus sufficient blood supply (wide carotid artery diameter) would then likely mean very high intelligence/brain nerve cell connectivity/activity.

    Could especially women with large brains/heads, like Oprah, who lack the proper blood supply to power their large brains actually be the least cognitively competent?

    These findings from the study match with and confirm the findings and hypothesis I cited in my above comment on neural connectiveness and neural efficiency: ””We believe this is possibly related to the brain’s need to satisfy increasingly energetic connections between nerve cells that allowed the evolution of complex thinking and learning.”

    To allow our brain to be so intelligent, it must be constantly fed oxygen and nutrients from the blood.”
     
    - http://www.unz.com/jthompson/what-do-iq-researchers-really-think-about-the-flynn-effect/#comment-1706913

    In regards to the Irish, this is just speculation on my part, but I think they are carriers of the low-activity MAOA gene more often than other Northern Europeans. See my post above on lack of impulse control, etc.: http://www.unz.com/freed/iq-a-skeptics-view/#comment-1725649

    See Irish Travelers:

    The birth rate of Irish Travellers has decreased since the 1990s, but they still have one of the highest birth rates in Europe. The birth rate for the Traveller community for the year 2005 was 33.32 per 1,000, possibly the highest birth rate recorded for any community in Europe.

    On average there are ten times more driving fatalities within the Traveller community. At 22%, this represents the most common cause of death among Traveller males. Some 10% of Traveller children die before their second birthday, compared to just 1% of the general population. In Ireland, 2.6% of all deaths in the total population were for people aged under 25, versus 32% for the Travellers.[55][56] In addition, 80% of Travellers die before the age of 65.

    According to the National Traveller Suicide Awareness Project, Traveller men are over six times more likely to commit suicide than the general population.[57]
     
    - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_Travellers#Health

    Ginger Jihadis:

    Although jihadists aren’t in a database somewhere categorized by their hair color, Breitbart did a study which sampled national newspaper coverage of white radical Islam converts between August 2013 and August 2014 to examine the correlation. They discovered that 76 percent of white British converts to radical Islam had red hair. The Daily Mail archived that 69 percent of white Brits who converted to Islam were also gingers. The Mirror and the Telegraph also yielded extremely high numbers, while the Guardian revealed that a whopping 100 percent of the white radical converts had red hair.
     
    - http://ufpnews.com/ginger-jihadis-why-red-heads-are-converting-to-radical-islam/

    All interesting. It should be noted though, that the higher the intelligence the lower the brain metabolism increase for any particular task. Intelligence is not muscular effort, but finesse.

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    • Replies: @FKA Max

    It should be noted though, that the higher the intelligence the lower the brain metabolism increase for any particular task. Intelligence is not muscular effort, but finesse.
     
    I am not sure I quite agree with this, but you could be right. If one owns a high performance/horsepower race car, and even if one was to drive it gently and smartly it will still have a relatively bad base gas mileage compared to an average non-racing car. Just as an analogy.

    I believe high intelligence is a built-in/genetic feature, that brings certain challenges with it (higher brain energy/fuel consumption being one of them).

    Also, if you were correct, don't high(er)-IQ people tend to devote much more of their time and energy toward solving and thinking about the ``big and hard'' (often stressful; having a non-``ignorance is blissful'' attitude) and mentally-challenging problems and tasks facing the world and humanity; and are therefore mentally much more active and are burning many more ``mental calories'' than the average person?

    So, in most cases, short periods of additional mental effort require a little more brainpower than usual, but not much more. Most laboratory experiments, however, have not subjected volunteers to several hours' worth of challenging mental acrobatics. [...]
    Some studies have found that when people are not very good at a particular task, they exert more mental effort and use more glucose and that, likewise, the more skilled you are, the more efficient your brain is and the less glucose you need. Complicating matters, at least one study suggests the opposite—that more skillful brains recruit more energy.*
     
    - https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/thinking-hard-calories/

    It is worth noting that there is even dissenting opinion about the alleged survival value of high intelligence. Arthur C. Clarke has said: “It has yet to be proven that intelligence has any survival value.” Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart has also said: “Neither a lofty degree of intelligence nor imagination nor both together make genius.”

    Swiss researchers Fredric Mer[y] and others at the University of Fribourg found that fast learning fruit fly larvae competing against more slow-witted ones in scarce food conditions did not win! More energy was devoted to making and rearranging neural connections in their brains leaving less energy to forage. Decisive action requires consideration of limited alternatives and smart people often out-smart themselves by complicating matters.
     
    - http://www.unz.com/gnxp/why-its-not-surprising-west-africans-dominate-sprinting/#comment-1530687


    My apologies for not having been more precise in my above comment. I should have written, that individually high IQ persons will manage just fine on their own, and probably will live pretty long, productive, and semi- to completely-fulfilling lives, but collectively they are an endangered species, due to their reproductive behavior/inactivity, and therefore worthy of protection, (financial, etc.) nurturing/aid, and other sorts of positive encouragement and reinforcement in general.
     
    - http://www.unz.com/runz/when-viacom-ceo-philippe-dauman-still-had-an-iq-of-260/#comment-1526049
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  121. Many older men get weak in the head, just as Fred Reed demonstrates. He is saying to not believe your lying eyes when you look at white areas compared to Mexican or black areas. Pathetic!

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  122. @Citizen of a Silly Country
    I wouldn't call IQ research malarkey. It's pretty useful, if imperfect.

    But, yes, I agree that fixating on IQ as the only measure of human beings or groups isn't right. I don't want to live in a 90%+ white country because our average IQ is higher or lower than other groups. I simply want to live with my own kind because we understand each other in a way that we could never understand other groups.

    Whether other groups have higher or lower IQs or achievements doesn't much matter to me. A 95% white country (oh, what a wonderful thought) with 10 million people could improve its overall IQ by importing 10 million 130+ IQ Chinese, but that'd be silly.

    I don't want to live in a country without blacks and browns because I hate them. I wish them well. I want to live in a white country for the same reason I care for and understand my children more than I care for and understand other people's children. I wouldn't replace one of my kids for a high IQ Indian kid, so why would I let them into my country.

    “I wouldn’t replace one of my kids for a high IQ Indian kid, so why would I let them into my country.”

    I used to make this argument but I have stopped doing so. I know a lot of east Asians and like them. Given the chance I would gladly swap them for some welfare-sponging, drug-taking, alcohol-binging, foul-mouthed Brits, despite the fact that I am genetically closer to the latter. Wanting to be with people like yourself is natural but there are many ways to be like someone: political beliefs, musical tastes, religion, values, shared history, manners plus lots more ways. While I’d accept close family members regardless of how rubbish they were, I don’t feel the same about feckless louts with whom I might share a common ancestor several centuries ago. Then ethnic solidarity gets swamped by other concerns.

    In short, I think there are good reasons why ethnonationalism is a sensible way to structure your country and that while ethnic purity is a myth – Who qualifies for that? – a super-majority of a more or less homogenous group is certainly possible. I just don’t think the scaling up from your own child to society as a whole works as an argument. Not for me anyway.

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  123. Alden says:
    @woodNfish
    A quibble - the Irish are not European as Ireland, an island, is not part of the European continent. Same for Brits.

    Another inane, off topic, stupid, snarky, smart ass quibble

    Cerca 12 thousand years ago, the North Sea did not exist and people lived on the land between Britian and what is now the Netherlands. The ice age was ending and the Atlantic flooded those lowlands and created a sea barrier between Britian and the continent.
    But Britian was still connected to the continent by land at the Dover Calais crossing. That crossing was not covered by water until about 9 thousand years ago.

    N. Ireland was connected to Scotland until about 9 thousand years ago when the sea rose at the end of the ice age.

    Today there are numerous large sand bars in the channel and North Sea that are covered with water at high tide and rise above the water at low tide.

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    "12 thousand years ago"

    'Nuff said.

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  124. @utu
    "Yes, those people certainly know nothing about how the world works."

    Engineers and scientist make things that often work in this world. Knowing how the world works is entirely different ball game.

    Knowing how the world works

    explain this in detail please, give an example or two :)

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    • Replies: @utu
    I looked up synonyms antonyms for intelligent in Webster:

    Synonyms alert, brainy, bright, brilliant, clever, exceptional, fast, hyperintelligent, keen, nimble, quick, quick-witted, sharp, sharp-witted, smart, supersmart, ultrasmart

    Related Words
    apt, ingenious, resourceful; acute, astute, discerning, heady, insightful, knowing, perceptive, percipient, perspicacious, sagacious, sapient, savvy, wise; cerebral, erudite, genial, highbrow, knowledgeable, learned, literate, scholarly, well-read; educated, informed, schooled, skilled, trained; creative, inventive, judicious, prudent, sage, sane, sapient, sensible, sound, wise; crafty, cunning, foxy, shrewd, wily; logical, rational, reasonable

    Near Antonyms feebleminded, simpleminded; boobish, foolish, half-baked, idiotic (also idiotical), imbecile (or imbecilic), moronic, silly; ignorant, illiterate, lowbrow, nonintellectual, unacademic, uneducated, uninformed, unintellectual, untaught, unthinking; absurd, asinine, balmy, cockeyed, crackpot, crazy, cuckoo, daffy, daft, dippy, dotty, featherheaded, fool, half-baked, harebrained, insane, kooky (also kookie), loony (also looney), lunatic, mad, nonsensical, nutty, preposterous, sappy, screwball, tomfool, unwise, wacky (also whacky), zany

    Antonyms airheaded, birdbrained, boneheaded, brain-dead, brainless, bubbleheaded, chuckleheaded, dense, dim, dim-witted, doltish, dopey (also dopy), dorky [slang], dull, dumb, dunderheaded, empty-headed, fatuous, gormless [chiefly British], half-witted, knuckleheaded, lamebrain (or lamebrained), lunkheaded, mindless, obtuse, opaque, pinheaded, senseless, simple, slow, slow-witted, soft, softheaded, stupid, thick, thickheaded, thick-witted, unbrilliant, unintelligent, unsmart, vacuous, weak-minded, witless
     

    The IQists are reductionists. They do not need these words. Only one suffices, the IQ and the number attached to it. Life seems be simpler in the IQists world, right? They do not need personality traits to take into account either. So let get rid of these words from dictionary:

    Adventurous Affable Conscientious Cultured Dependable Discreet Fair Fearless Observant Impartial Independent Optimistic Intelligent Keen Gregarious Persistent Capable Charming Precise Confident Dutiful Encouraging Reliable Exuberant Helpful Humble Suave Imaginative Meticulous Obedient Trusting Valiant

    Laziness Picky Sullen Pompous Dishonesty Finicky Sarcastic Arrogant Cowardly Sneaky Rude Quarrelsome Impulsive Slovenly Self-centered Boorish Surly Unfriendly Unruly Thoughless Stingy Bossy Vulgar Malicious Conceited Obnoxious
     

    Simpletons like simple ideas. Ideas have consequences. Sometimes the phenomenon of the self-fulfilled prophesy kick in. IQists would like to construct IQ-topia where everybody is assigned the IQ number early in life and perhaps has the number tattooed on one's forehead. The life in IQ-topia is the life of just one number. Literature would be so much simpler. In the IQ-topia Tolstoy's War and Piece would be no more than 100 page long.
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  125. The tallest building in the world is in Dubai! IQ is meaningless!

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  126. Well, I expected a little more from this article. Then again I may be too stupid to understand. Good point, though, about the Greeks of 2500 years ago.

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  127. Hodag says:
    @Bill Jones
    "designed and built" is shorthand for copied from.
    The first Glass walled building was in Liverpool, the first steel framed building was in the US, the roads- remember the word Tarmac- was a tarry invention of a Scott called Macadam.

    Etc, Etc, Etc......

    Many were designed in Europe and North America. Plans travel well.

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  128. We can use the example of skyscrapers in Colombia to examine HBD in detail, as opposed to in the large scale as in IQ and GDP relation.

    Put your physiognomy thinking caps on and cut a square out of a paper bag.

    Let’s look at the tallest skyscraper in Cartagena now:

    Parque Central Complex

    In 1969 Enrique Gustavo Delfino Arriens engineer and CEO of the construction Delpre CA submitted the draft to the president of Central Park Centro Simón Bolívar during the period of the then President of the Republic Rafael Caldera

    Central Park Towers … the tallest in South America …
    designed by the Venezuelan architect Daniel Fernández Shaw.

    Let’s now look at pictures of the important people mentioned:

    Picture of the CEO of company that built it: Enrique Gustavo Delfino Arriens.

    Picture of the architect that designed it: Daniel Fernández Shaw. From the Spanish wikipedia biography: nace el 29 de septiembre de 1933 en Madrid, España.

    Picture of president of Colombia when it was built: Rafael Caldera.

    As an aside, there was a fire in 2004: “firefighting efforts were hampered by non-working automatic sprinkler and standpipe systems“. Oh, and another fire occured in 2013.

    Now we can look at the next tallest building:

    Tower of David
    … nicknamed “Torre de David” after David Brillembourg, the tower’s main investor

    Picture of David Brillembourg. The name Brillembourg comes from a Mayan god perhaps?

    See, they have cities with skyscrapers just like any first world city, only they catch fire more often because it’s hotter in the Tropics.

    More about the Tower of David:

    … the government took control of the building and it has not been completed since. The building lacks elevators, installed electricity, running water, balcony railing, windows and even walls in many places. … In 2001, the Venezuelan government made the attempt to auction off the complex, though no one made an offer.
    … Construction of homes halted in Venezuela due to the fears of expropriations that occurred under the Bolivarian government
    … The housing shortage led to occupation of the complex by squatters led by ex-convicts in October 2007.
    … They could use motorcycles to travel up and down the first 10 floors, but had to use the stairs for the remaining levels.

    Third-world gonna third-world.

    Some pictures of the resident squatters and their decor can be seen here:

    Squatters in Venezuela’s 45-Story ‘Tower of David’

    Compare the physiognomy of the residents of the skyscraper to that of its creators and architects.

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  129. bomag says:
    @The Unrecorded Man
    I liked your comment. I have one question - and it is a genuine question, not a snide observation. Wouldn't it possible to say:

    And the rule is this: Countries with more economic freedom have better health, higher GDP, more wealth (per capita), more high-tech exports, more Nobel laureates, longer lifespans, more and better quality education, less crime, less AIDS, fewer homicides, higher-IQ populations (based on IQ, PISA, TIMSS, PIRLS results) etc.

    I chose 'economic freedom' at random. I could have chosen anything in your list. My question is, what suggests that IQ is upstream rather than downstream of all the good things you listed?

    And on a slightly different point, what do you think about Fred Reed's idea that IQ and intelligence are very different things? He admits that blacks have low IQs and have achieved next to nothing. However, I see his point that a lack of intelligence is less easy to spot in, say, Indians, Mexicans and South Americans, despite their measured low IQ.

    I chose ‘economic freedom’ at random. I could have chosen anything in your list. My question is, what suggests that IQ is upstream rather than downstream of all the good things you listed?

    What fits with observation? Somalia has lots of ‘economic freedom’, but not much to show for it. Europe and Singapore are not exactly high on the ‘economic freedom’ chart, but they have quite a bit of civilization.

    IQ is one of our best predictors of accomplishment.

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    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
    Yes to your last statement because even if the Flynn effect is going to take over in such a way that the poor nation's average IQ eventually equates to that of the developed world it won't happen overnight.
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  130. Rich says:
    @Sean
    An s5053ar3y irrelevant assertion would be that the Yamnaya did not clear the land they conquered in north Europe. So what, the immigrants were superior and they proved it, as did the Conquistadors. And they took their choice of the the local women.

    The WASPs were the best test of good environment for IQ, because they had the most favourable environment for developing high IQ in the world and they were beaten at their own game by poor desperate immigrant slum dwelling Jews, every time.

    Ashkenazi Jewish immigrants were obviously superior to the American elite so the Ashkenazi advantage was genetic and not due to better nutrition, schooling or intellectual stimulation. Moreover, there has been no such superiority in subsequent non Jewish immigrants, who have not been able to even attain WASP level.

    A New York Ashkenazi Jew with the IQ of Muhammad Ali would seem obviously mentally handicapped, but Ali didn't even though he was rejected as unsuitable for the US army on the grounds of his test result.

    So you’re a fan of the Ashkenazi subset of Jewish immigrants. Good for you. I don’t see the so-called obvious superiority that you do, but I suppose we all have our own viewpoints. I see Jewish immigrants who lived in an urban environment with small families that used education and ethnic ties to get ahead and did a decent job of it. I’m not begrudging them their success here in the US, I just don’t think they are any smarter than any of the other European immigrants who settled in urban environments and I don’t believe they would have had the success they had if not for the Wasps allowing them into their country clubs. I guess we’ll see how Israel looks in another 50 years or so and if it becomes comparable to a European nation.

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    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
    Are you serious? "I don't think they would have had the success they have had if not for the Wasps allowing them into their country clubs". When did the Wasps start letting them into "their" country clubs? And how could that have made any difference to their worldly success (any actual examples or evidence?). Do you even know what an extraordinarily disproportionate number of America's Nobel Prizes have been won by Jews? How do you explain them winning about ten times as many as their proportion of the total population would indicate?
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  131. Over the last 100 years Eugenics has dated both the left and the right, whenever she got knocked up she consistently gave birth to bloody genocide and horror.

    Her favorite party dress (aside from retro-chic phrenology) is IQ. It is just quantitative-seeming enough to appeal to not-very-smart decision makers, who need a white-coated pseudo-scientific fig leaf to cover their crimes.

    Here in the West we really are obsessed with ‘intelligence’. Why do we have antibiotics and jet engines and Kalihari bushmen don’t? Surely we who are so clever and well-educated can devise an objective measure of this crucial metric. And so we construct a hall of fun-house mirrors, which reflect back that which we desire to see, namely, OUR superiority…..

    Read More
    • Replies: @Santoculto
    Here in the west we are obsessed with intelligence

    All nations, people and organisms there is a universal obsession with some type of intelligence called survivability.

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  132. jivilov says:

    Great article. Been wondering why the “race realists” haven’t been able to produce much new stuff since The Bell Curve. Or why they can’t come up with sensible explanations regarding the Flynn Effect, rapid changes in group IQ, or the ability of countries with supposedly borderline mentally retarded populations to handle modern infrastructure, finance, etc.

    This pretty much blows out of the water any presumptions of the IQ-is-destiny crowd about how “scientific” they are. Thanks Mr. Reed!

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    • Replies: @Santoculto
    Freed have just a one very good point the rest is pure trash. Indeed this article is a IQ test itself, O_O

    A test of factual understanding.

    You scored lower, congrats!! ^.^

    No doubt leftbeefs are just quasi-pathological liars who are unable to be intellectually honest and follows facts, real justice and the truth.
    , @Wizard of Oz
    Don't throw out the baby with the bathwater. I don't recall any cogent objections by Fred to race realism or Lynn and Vanhenen's ingenuous belief in their figures but Ron Unz in TAC set out the most compelling case for doubting that many of L & V's figures could be given simple genetic explanations. None of that precludes firm belief on much evidence (a) that the persistent one sd IQ difference between American whites and African-Americans over 100 years is substantially genetic; (b) that Ashkenazi and some true out-of-Iberia Sephardi Jews have substantially higher heritable verbal and mathematical abilities than the average European which IQ tests reflect; (c) that IQ scores reflect on average real differences in cognitive potential such that schools rightly stream pupils so that those with IQ scores above say 120 will be given a chance of learning the material which is a precondition of professional occupations and those with IQs under say 105 will be steered towards something "practical". I have an inlaw who owned her own primary school for many years and she could easily estimate with accuracy from a child's schoolwork what its score on IQ tests would be AND get pretty close in predicting which of them years later would get into top universities. There is of course a certain asymmetry. Someone with a measured IQ of 150 can readily see that someone with an IQ of 125 is smarter than someone with an IQ of 115 but someone with an IQ of 120 may detect no difference between 135 and 145. Not that the one with the 145 IQ is necessarily going to be the better CEO but he's more likely on average to solve your tax problem or become a court of appeal judge.
    , @anon

    Been wondering why the “race realists” haven’t been able to produce much new stuff since The Bell Curve.
     
    It's been replicated many times. The media/academia won't report it.
    , @utu
    "Been wondering why the “race realists” haven’t been able to produce much new stuff since The Bell Curve."

    Because there is nothing to it. Charles Murray wrote couple article son Jewish superiority and since he has a comfy living on neocon money. More recently he started supporting gay marriage.

    Do you think these people those people like Murrays and Karlins, etc are for real? There are only two kinds among them: smooth operators or useful idiots. Still they can do enough damage to keep the herd of iSteve audience and similar ilk yapping for ever. Divide and rule cleverly applied works every time.
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  133. sb says:

    Isn’t the Mayan site shown Palenque and not Uxmal?

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  134. Yoyo says:

    A low mean IQ doesn’t preclude significant achievements.

    You could create great music with one genius composer, one fairly bright choirmaster, and a chorus of mongoloids.

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    • Replies: @wealthy farmer
    Yes, but could that genius composer survive for one week out on the steppes of Mongolia, in winter? DUBIOUS.

    While genius composer is dying of hypothermia, 'mongoloids' are warm and cozy in their yurts, drinking hot yak butter tea, happily chatting and gossiping....
    , @Anon

    A low mean IQ doesn’t preclude significant achievements.

    You could create great music with one genius composer, one fairly bright choirmaster, and a chorus of mongoloids.
     
    A low IQ doesn't preclude significant achievements, except for most of the time.
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  135. @Yoyo
    A low mean IQ doesn't preclude significant achievements.

    You could create great music with one genius composer, one fairly bright choirmaster, and a chorus of mongoloids.

    Yes, but could that genius composer survive for one week out on the steppes of Mongolia, in winter? DUBIOUS.

    While genius composer is dying of hypothermia, ‘mongoloids’ are warm and cozy in their yurts, drinking hot yak butter tea, happily chatting and gossiping….

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    • Replies: @anon
    The genius composer would be the chief or the witch doctor - sitting in the yurt with the rest.

    In a simple society you only need a few leaders to handle the complicated stuff - hence a bell curve where the bulk of the population are around the average level needed for that society and 6-16% are much higher and capable of dealing with the rest.

    populations with average 85 IQ have a significant minority who are 100+
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  136. Anon says: • Disclaimer
    @Yoyo
    A low mean IQ doesn't preclude significant achievements.

    You could create great music with one genius composer, one fairly bright choirmaster, and a chorus of mongoloids.

    A low mean IQ doesn’t preclude significant achievements.

    You could create great music with one genius composer, one fairly bright choirmaster, and a chorus of mongoloids.

    A low IQ doesn’t preclude significant achievements, except for most of the time.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
    Are you disagreeing with Yoyo or have you perhas missed his/her point? ("mean IQ")
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  137. The Swiss today are generally prosperous and about as First World as they come, but historically they were very violent and a significant number of their young men would leave to fight as mercenaries for foreigners. In Utopia, Thomas More alluded to a violent nation who the Utopians hired to do their fighting for them so they would not have to, and it is widely believed he was alluding to the Swiss of his day, who certainly were not yet the “gnomes of Zurich”. The Reformation did not contribute to Swiss harmony either, as Catholic and Protestant areas frequently fought one another. Was their IQ low in 1520 and high in 1920, or something?

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    • Replies: @anon
    The Swiss fought a lot because they were so diverse.

    After they developed the canton system they didn't fight so much.
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  138. @jivilov
    Great article. Been wondering why the "race realists" haven't been able to produce much new stuff since The Bell Curve. Or why they can't come up with sensible explanations regarding the Flynn Effect, rapid changes in group IQ, or the ability of countries with supposedly borderline mentally retarded populations to handle modern infrastructure, finance, etc.

    This pretty much blows out of the water any presumptions of the IQ-is-destiny crowd about how "scientific" they are. Thanks Mr. Reed!

    Freed have just a one very good point the rest is pure trash. Indeed this article is a IQ test itself, O_O

    A test of factual understanding.

    You scored lower, congrats!! ^.^

    No doubt leftbeefs are just quasi-pathological liars who are unable to be intellectually honest and follows facts, real justice and the truth.

    Read More
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  139. @wealthy farmer
    Over the last 100 years Eugenics has dated both the left and the right, whenever she got knocked up she consistently gave birth to bloody genocide and horror.

    Her favorite party dress (aside from retro-chic phrenology) is IQ. It is just quantitative-seeming enough to appeal to not-very-smart decision makers, who need a white-coated pseudo-scientific fig leaf to cover their crimes.

    Here in the West we really are obsessed with 'intelligence'. Why do we have antibiotics and jet engines and Kalihari bushmen don't? Surely we who are so clever and well-educated can devise an objective measure of this crucial metric. And so we construct a hall of fun-house mirrors, which reflect back that which we desire to see, namely, OUR superiority.....

    Here in the west we are obsessed with intelligence

    All nations, people and organisms there is a universal obsession with some type of intelligence called survivability.

    Read More
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  140. Che Guava says:
    @FKA Max
    Correction: One of the ways lack *of* or low impulse control expresses itself in Asians is gambling...

    Nearly five percent of Japanese are addicted to gambling – even though it’s still “illegal”

    This past summer the Ministry of Health, Labor and Welfare conducted research on the number of citizens addicted to gambling, including boat and horse racing, pachinko, slots and even mahjong. The study found that over 5.36 million people are addicted to gambling (4.3 million men, and just under 1 million women)—that’s almost five percent of the population (and almost nine percent of all men). Further, they discovered that within this group, eighty percent of them are addicted to pachinko and slots, specifically. [...]

    It was such a problem in Korea that the government effectively banned it, leading many addicts to travel to Japan to get their fix. [...]
     
    - http://en.rocketnews24.com/2014/11/23/nearly-five-percent-of-japanese-are-addicted-to-gambling-even-though-its-still-illegal/

    Nearly five percent of Japanese are addicted to gambling – even though it’s still “illegal”

    Addicted to pachinko? You may well be right. The papa at one bar I used to like (now closed) would burn through 70,000 yen once or twice a month.

    Of the examples you cite, gambling on boat, bicycle and horse racing is legal.

    For the boat, cycle, and horse races, the only legal facilities are officially on-site, but the evening tabloids have a lot of coverage, so there must be a thriving and tolerated bookmaking scene. Maybe on-line betting now, too.

    Mahjong, gambling is illegal, but there are small mahjong parlours everywhere, and every player I know gambles, usually for very small stakes, but there must be exceptions to that (large-stakes games at some places).

    Pachinko and our version of slot machines, gambling is illegal, but both have a tolerated subterfuge to exchange wins for cash, in the case of pachinko, some people make a living out of it, there are comics and movies about it, instructional magazines, simulations of the machines to practice on with a game console, it is a small sub-culture.

    Some of the pros really make a very good living from it (anecdotes from playing friends and the very occasional coverage on mass-media convince me that this is not just a lure, a few really do consistently make pretty good money from pachinko).

    Where the govt. is really serious is in not allowing casino-style games. I have never seen a sign that they exist, would guess that Yakuza gangs sometimes hold high-stakes card games, at least, but there is no sign of illegal casinos.

    One of former Governor Ishihara’s many ideas (mainly bad) was a legal casino near or by Tokyo Bay, his former colleagues in the ruling party did not allow it, so our polity seems serious on that.

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    • Replies: @FKA Max
    Thank you very much for your insider's perspective!

    I actually partially agree with Mr. Reed's criticism of the ``race realist'' community. They have an extreme blind spot or an extreme fetish when it comes to Northeast Asians' and Ashkenazi Jews' high IQ/SAT test scores and rarely seem to take into account other genetic factors like the MAOA gene and its different allele expressions among the different races; which is more, or at least as equally as important to do, IMO: http://www.unz.com/freed/iq-a-skeptics-view/#comment-1725649

    They are also obsessed with Black/common crime and seem to mostly ignore high white-collar crime rates among Ashkenazi Jews, Asians, etc.:

    It is impossible to suppose that East Asians commit less crime than Whites given the extent of bribery and “kick-backs” in Asian society, which is a way of life. Tax evasion and the use of a cash economy is also a matter of fact. None of this is considered by Rushton.[...]
    I am always flabbergasted by the assertion of many prominent ”race realists” that Asians/Northeast Asians have the lowest crime rates, low (violent) common crime rates that is, but they completely ignore, or are oblivious to Asian/Northeast Asian (non-violent) white-collar crime. [...]
    White-collar crime has been defined recently as the use of a significant position of power for illegal gain that results in damage or harm to victims as measured by financial loss, physical harm, and damage to the community’s moral climate. Most experts agree that the economic impact of white-collar crime is far more costly than ordinary crime.
     
    - http://www.unz.com/isteve/sat-scandal/#comment-1544526

    On the Asian rise: I live in California. It is impossible to understand what people like me mean by “Asian test prep” unless you live in one of the areas where it exists. So unless you see “SAT academies” on every street corner, sometimes 3 to a building, and realize that each of those business is selling a minimum of 50-70 hours of test prep per kid, it might be difficult to understand. Kaplan has largely disappeared in my neck of the woods. Whites in my area are doing far, far less test prep. I don’t know why specifically, but I suspect that many of them have realized that grades determine so much of UC admissions that there’s no point in paying for a higher test score. A 2400 SAT scorer with a 3.8 GPA has zero chance at Berkeley, UCLA, and UCSD.

    You’ve mentioned that the SAT has no ability to predict IQs over 130. This is consistent with my observations (anecdotal though they are) and it also suggests, I think, that it would be possible for the Asians to achieve overrepresentation through test prep. This does not have to mean that Asians would be schlubs without test prep, of course.
     
    - http://www.unz.com/isteve/he-who-controls-test-prep-controls-the-future/#comment-1512545

    Some more reading here, that might be of interest to you: http://www.unz.com/announcement/expanding-our-science-and-history-coverage/#comment-1692309

    Lynn is skeptical about environmental explanations of this
    difference. He says "Environmental explanations for the high Jewish [verbal] IQ are difficult to
    find. Even if it is supposed that Jews provide their children with a good environment for fostering the intelligence of their children, there is a problem for providing an explanation for why they do this". [18] There are no shortages of environmental explanations of the high Jewish IQ, including Jewish urbanization and professional aggressiveness, a culture valuing learning and language (especially learning other languages which improves language cognitive abilities), and a culture fostering success. [19] Lynn's statement is absurd because it is obvious why Jewish parents provide a good environment for fostering their children's intelligence - and that is for success. [20]
     
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  141. Che Guava says:
    @anonymous coward

    But instincts are there (inherent drives) and we are slowly identifying them.
     
    Instincts aren't inherent drives. By definition, 'instinct' is complex behavior that isn't learned but inherited.

    Humans have only one instinct: the sucking instinct of infants. Inherited emotional responses exist, but they're not instincts -- they're feelings, not complex behavior.

    Humans have only one instinct: the sucking instinct of infants.

    It is ‘suckling’, not ‘sucking’. Human babies are born with several instinctual behaviours. All but that one disappear within 48 or so hours of birth.

    The most striking was grip, a newborn, soon after birth, generally has a grip strong enough to support its own weight.

    There are three or four others.

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  142. @Rich
    So you're a fan of the Ashkenazi subset of Jewish immigrants. Good for you. I don't see the so-called obvious superiority that you do, but I suppose we all have our own viewpoints. I see Jewish immigrants who lived in an urban environment with small families that used education and ethnic ties to get ahead and did a decent job of it. I'm not begrudging them their success here in the US, I just don't think they are any smarter than any of the other European immigrants who settled in urban environments and I don't believe they would have had the success they had if not for the Wasps allowing them into their country clubs. I guess we'll see how Israel looks in another 50 years or so and if it becomes comparable to a European nation.

    Are you serious? “I don’t think they would have had the success they have had if not for the Wasps allowing them into their country clubs”. When did the Wasps start letting them into “their” country clubs? And how could that have made any difference to their worldly success (any actual examples or evidence?). Do you even know what an extraordinarily disproportionate number of America’s Nobel Prizes have been won by Jews? How do you explain them winning about ten times as many as their proportion of the total population would indicate?

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    • Replies: @Rich
    I think they started letting them into both their country clubs and universities in the early 20th century. I know both Obama and Bob Dylan have won Nobel Prizes, too, so I don't think that's actually a good barometer of achievement. I wouldn't even know how to check the religion or ethnicity of American Nobel winners anyway, but if you want to, go ahead and let everyone know.

    Again, I'm not begrudging, nor discounting, the achievements of Jews and other minorities who've come to the US, I'm merely stating that it was the genius of the Wasps who built this nation and set up its infrastructure that allowed immigrant Jews, Poles, Italians, Hungarians, Greeks, etc, etc. to succeed. It was in the US that your favorite ethnic group succeeded so disproportionately, shouldn't that be appreciated? Why do so many people seem to get upset if other people don't accept the principle of Ashkenazi superiority? Israel is a nation with a majority Jewish population, if they are a tenth as successful as the Wasps have been with the nations they've founded, I will certainly tip my hat to them.

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  143. If you accept intelligence exists and is heritable it is much less important whether IQ tests measure it accurately. You are still going to get differences in intelligence between people that pas in families, and you are still going to get the possibility (indeed, the likelihood) that there are group differences between peoples widely separated and adapted to different environments.

    You say that the literature on IQ is messy and not fully explained, which is true. You imply that this means we should fall back on an assumption that everyone has about the same IQ (or at least all groups have about the same IQ) which doesn’t follow. If IQ data is worthless, the likelihood is still that there are important group differences, we just don’t know what they are.

    Rebutting your specific claims is less important, but three things to bear in mind when evaluating IQ test results:

    1. IQ is much more malleable and less heritable in children than adults. Unfortunately, it’s much easíer to get captive groups of pliant and representative children than adults to whom to administer IQ tests. So many of these IQ test studies have used child subjects and they are therefore not very accurate. I think all of this data should be thrown away in fact. When you do that, a lot of the weird enormous jumps and dramatic changes in IQ over the past few decades just disappear.

    2. Mean IQ is just one number; standard deviation also matters, and it is also likely that IQ just isn’t normally distributed at all in some countries. A country in which everyone has an IQ of exactly 85 is going to have big problems doing much of anything, but a country in which 20% of people have an IQ of 120 and 80% of people have an IQ of 74 can easily have working advanced infrastructure (plus a lot of other problems) even though the mean is the same. And that’s what we see in places like India: space and nuclear programmes, but also people sleeping in newspapers. Both Mexico and India and not racially homogeneous; they’re the result of a high IQ invader race partially but not fully replacing a low IQ aboriginal race. So a wide variance in IQ, within people who look racially mixed, is exactly what you expect.

    3. Science is messy. Not every measurement is correct. The Irish data, for instance, doesn’t make sense to me. But it’s well possible that that study was just wrong, or the sample was for random reasons not very representative. When you have a plausible theory, a proven mechanism, and a lot of supporting data, you don’t chuck the whole thing because of one inconsistent measurement. The inconsistent measurement does deserve further investigation though.

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    • Agree: res
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  144. @jivilov
    Great article. Been wondering why the "race realists" haven't been able to produce much new stuff since The Bell Curve. Or why they can't come up with sensible explanations regarding the Flynn Effect, rapid changes in group IQ, or the ability of countries with supposedly borderline mentally retarded populations to handle modern infrastructure, finance, etc.

    This pretty much blows out of the water any presumptions of the IQ-is-destiny crowd about how "scientific" they are. Thanks Mr. Reed!

    Don’t throw out the baby with the bathwater. I don’t recall any cogent objections by Fred to race realism or Lynn and Vanhenen’s ingenuous belief in their figures but Ron Unz in TAC set out the most compelling case for doubting that many of L & V’s figures could be given simple genetic explanations. None of that precludes firm belief on much evidence (a) that the persistent one sd IQ difference between American whites and African-Americans over 100 years is substantially genetic; (b) that Ashkenazi and some true out-of-Iberia Sephardi Jews have substantially higher heritable verbal and mathematical abilities than the average European which IQ tests reflect; (c) that IQ scores reflect on average real differences in cognitive potential such that schools rightly stream pupils so that those with IQ scores above say 120 will be given a chance of learning the material which is a precondition of professional occupations and those with IQs under say 105 will be steered towards something “practical”. I have an inlaw who owned her own primary school for many years and she could easily estimate with accuracy from a child’s schoolwork what its score on IQ tests would be AND get pretty close in predicting which of them years later would get into top universities. There is of course a certain asymmetry. Someone with a measured IQ of 150 can readily see that someone with an IQ of 125 is smarter than someone with an IQ of 115 but someone with an IQ of 120 may detect no difference between 135 and 145. Not that the one with the 145 IQ is necessarily going to be the better CEO but he’s more likely on average to solve your tax problem or become a court of appeal judge.

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    • Replies: @Santoculto

    some true out-of-Iberia Sephardi Jews have substantially higher heritable verbal and mathematical abilities
     
    I think all jewish groups have this pattern, explicitly observable by IQ tests OR NOT.

    Or smarter jewish individuals of all groups have the same pattern than a avg ashkenaziS.
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  145. @bomag

    I chose ‘economic freedom’ at random. I could have chosen anything in your list. My question is, what suggests that IQ is upstream rather than downstream of all the good things you listed?
     
    What fits with observation? Somalia has lots of 'economic freedom', but not much to show for it. Europe and Singapore are not exactly high on the 'economic freedom' chart, but they have quite a bit of civilization.

    IQ is one of our best predictors of accomplishment.

    Yes to your last statement because even if the Flynn effect is going to take over in such a way that the poor nation’s average IQ eventually equates to that of the developed world it won’t happen overnight.

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  146. @Gene Su
    I think the classic mistake that racialists make is to assume that IQ/intelligence is only determined by one's genes. Long post follows.

    I am a first-gen East Asian. I believe that there are other independent variables that IQ depends on such as discipline, attitude, culture, and emotional state. While environment does effect IQ it is also true that culture affects environment.

    Here's what I think about blacks: I don't think they are dumb at all. I think the reason they don't like to learn in school is because they watch a lot of TV telling them that they don't have to or are not supposed to learn anything in school. Just look at the 80's hit sitcom Saved By the Bell. The nerd of the group, Screech, is mocked furiously. The other two males are held in higher regard. Slater was a Jock. Zack was an ultra social slacker. Ultra social slackers and jocks ... blacks fit into those two archtypes. Note that Zack and Slater are white.

    One last note: I don't see much difference between rowdy blacks and the rowdy whites who gave me a hard time during my public school days, even if rowdy whites are "smarter" by one standard deviation. If things don't turn around, there is gonna be a white underclass.

    http://www.theamericanconservative.com/dreher/honey-boo-boo-nation/

    If your theory was true then surely we’d see some sign of intellectual achievement in history before the arrival of the malign influence of ‘Saved By the Bell’, no?

    Do we find this?

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  147. Edit that was eaten by the time limit:

    Another thing to bear in mind when trying to assess the IQ of countries by personal experience is that you live in a self-selected bubble. I for instance work in scientific computing and spend most of my time around people with 120+ IQs. They come from all over the world. I could easily conclude that everyone in the world has a 120+ IQ – that that is just normal for humans – but that isn’t the case, I just work in an environment in which people with lower than 120 IQs can’t be hired.
    When you go to Mexico you probably stay in hotels that offer what an American considers good service; you probably go to the good restaurants and are willing and able to pay for them; you probably select your circle of Mexican friends and family for people who are intelligent, interesting, possibly also English speaking, all of which will give you an unrepresentative sample of the Mexican population.

    And if you go to a shop, it might seem that the shop guy is intelligent enough to run a shop everywhere. Well, obviously. The question isn’t whether the shop guy is intelligent enough to run a shop, but how high up a country’s IQ scale you need to be to be a shop guy. 20th percentile or 80th percentile? Without seeing how many people applied to run the shop and didn’t get the job, or indeed how many people there are who just aren’t capable of any real employment at all, you simply don’t know, and you won’t see these people. (that said, after visiting a diverse part of the US from a Northern European state, the US did strike me as a low IQ country and the capability and services expected from low level employees was much less than I’m used to)

    Intuition is good for some things, but measuring the IQ of people whom you encounter is going to tell you much more about *your* IQ than that of the places you are visiting. The IQ test measurements are much more reliable for that purpose.

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  148. Interesting how Freed is calmly ”racist” against blacks and how he believe ”latinos” and ”blacks” are very different peoples while in the truth they are not so different, specially south americans, and colombians, who tend to have significative subsaharian admixture. Freed seems believe that most of ”latinos” are just like mexicans, who tend to have less subsaharian blood in their veins and significative amerindian ones.

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  149. @Wizard of Oz
    Don't throw out the baby with the bathwater. I don't recall any cogent objections by Fred to race realism or Lynn and Vanhenen's ingenuous belief in their figures but Ron Unz in TAC set out the most compelling case for doubting that many of L & V's figures could be given simple genetic explanations. None of that precludes firm belief on much evidence (a) that the persistent one sd IQ difference between American whites and African-Americans over 100 years is substantially genetic; (b) that Ashkenazi and some true out-of-Iberia Sephardi Jews have substantially higher heritable verbal and mathematical abilities than the average European which IQ tests reflect; (c) that IQ scores reflect on average real differences in cognitive potential such that schools rightly stream pupils so that those with IQ scores above say 120 will be given a chance of learning the material which is a precondition of professional occupations and those with IQs under say 105 will be steered towards something "practical". I have an inlaw who owned her own primary school for many years and she could easily estimate with accuracy from a child's schoolwork what its score on IQ tests would be AND get pretty close in predicting which of them years later would get into top universities. There is of course a certain asymmetry. Someone with a measured IQ of 150 can readily see that someone with an IQ of 125 is smarter than someone with an IQ of 115 but someone with an IQ of 120 may detect no difference between 135 and 145. Not that the one with the 145 IQ is necessarily going to be the better CEO but he's more likely on average to solve your tax problem or become a court of appeal judge.

    some true out-of-Iberia Sephardi Jews have substantially higher heritable verbal and mathematical abilities

    I think all jewish groups have this pattern, explicitly observable by IQ tests OR NOT.

    Or smarter jewish individuals of all groups have the same pattern than a avg ashkenaziS.

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    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
    No, not true I think of the mass of Mizrahi Jews and certainly not the Falasha from Ethiopia.
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  150. woodNfish says:
    @Alden
    Another inane, off topic, stupid, snarky, smart ass quibble

    Cerca 12 thousand years ago, the North Sea did not exist and people lived on the land between Britian and what is now the Netherlands. The ice age was ending and the Atlantic flooded those lowlands and created a sea barrier between Britian and the continent.
    But Britian was still connected to the continent by land at the Dover Calais crossing. That crossing was not covered by water until about 9 thousand years ago.

    N. Ireland was connected to Scotland until about 9 thousand years ago when the sea rose at the end of the ice age.

    Today there are numerous large sand bars in the channel and North Sea that are covered with water at high tide and rise above the water at low tide.

    “12 thousand years ago”

    ‘Nuff said.

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  151. utu says:
    @Astuteobservor II

    Knowing how the world works
     
    explain this in detail please, give an example or two :)

    I looked up synonyms antonyms for intelligent in Webster:

    Synonyms alert, brainy, bright, brilliant, clever, exceptional, fast, hyperintelligent, keen, nimble, quick, quick-witted, sharp, sharp-witted, smart, supersmart, ultrasmart

    Related Words
    apt, ingenious, resourceful; acute, astute, discerning, heady, insightful, knowing, perceptive, percipient, perspicacious, sagacious, sapient, savvy, wise; cerebral, erudite, genial, highbrow, knowledgeable, learned, literate, scholarly, well-read; educated, informed, schooled, skilled, trained; creative, inventive, judicious, prudent, sage, sane, sapient, sensible, sound, wise; crafty, cunning, foxy, shrewd, wily; logical, rational, reasonable

    Near Antonyms feebleminded, simpleminded; boobish, foolish, half-baked, idiotic (also idiotical), imbecile (or imbecilic), moronic, silly; ignorant, illiterate, lowbrow, nonintellectual, unacademic, uneducated, uninformed, unintellectual, untaught, unthinking; absurd, asinine, balmy, cockeyed, crackpot, crazy, cuckoo, daffy, daft, dippy, dotty, featherheaded, fool, half-baked, harebrained, insane, kooky (also kookie), loony (also looney), lunatic, mad, nonsensical, nutty, preposterous, sappy, screwball, tomfool, unwise, wacky (also whacky), zany

    Antonyms airheaded, birdbrained, boneheaded, brain-dead, brainless, bubbleheaded, chuckleheaded, dense, dim, dim-witted, doltish, dopey (also dopy), dorky [slang], dull, dumb, dunderheaded, empty-headed, fatuous, gormless [chiefly British], half-witted, knuckleheaded, lamebrain (or lamebrained), lunkheaded, mindless, obtuse, opaque, pinheaded, senseless, simple, slow, slow-witted, soft, softheaded, stupid, thick, thickheaded, thick-witted, unbrilliant, unintelligent, unsmart, vacuous, weak-minded, witless

    The IQists are reductionists. They do not need these words. Only one suffices, the IQ and the number attached to it. Life seems be simpler in the IQists world, right? They do not need personality traits to take into account either. So let get rid of these words from dictionary:

    Adventurous Affable Conscientious Cultured Dependable Discreet Fair Fearless Observant Impartial Independent Optimistic Intelligent Keen Gregarious Persistent Capable Charming Precise Confident Dutiful Encouraging Reliable Exuberant Helpful Humble Suave Imaginative Meticulous Obedient Trusting Valiant

    Laziness Picky Sullen Pompous Dishonesty Finicky Sarcastic Arrogant Cowardly Sneaky Rude Quarrelsome Impulsive Slovenly Self-centered Boorish Surly Unfriendly Unruly Thoughless Stingy Bossy Vulgar Malicious Conceited Obnoxious

    Simpletons like simple ideas. Ideas have consequences. Sometimes the phenomenon of the self-fulfilled prophesy kick in. IQists would like to construct IQ-topia where everybody is assigned the IQ number early in life and perhaps has the number tattooed on one’s forehead. The life in IQ-topia is the life of just one number. Literature would be so much simpler. In the IQ-topia Tolstoy’s War and Piece would be no more than 100 page long.

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    • Replies: @Astuteobservor II
    ahh, I think I got where you are coming from. you basically disagree with the entire idea of measured IQ. or anything related.
    , @Santoculto
    As always I agree with most part of your comment but I know your ideology affect your full factual understanding of this piece as I said in other comment about leftists and Freed. IQ measure intelligence, partly, part of their cognitive aspect, nothing more by now. If psychometricians start to embody the extreme relevance of rationality/wisdom and creativity"quantitative levels" so i think IQ will become much more accurate and that number will express more near the real size of our intellects.

    Psychometricians on the right, specially, are essentially concerned with "achievements" in school, faculty or university and in material terms, they pay little attention to the everyday "little' achievements people usually do or not, mostly of them are social, emotional and rational.

    They believe this work-life cycle express intelligence, only this. In other words they are basically applying their own masculine and ant-worker mentality trying over-generalize intelligence, concepts and their expressions to their own side. Just like if engineers try to impose that engineering is the genuine or central manifestation of human intelligence.

    Unfortunately seems so many "intelligence experts" don't appear to be intelligent enough to understand what they are studying, dedicating their lifes.
    , @anon

    The IQists are reductionists. They do not need these words. Only one suffices, the IQ and the number attached to it.
     
    I'd say the reason they often come across as reductionist is because the pushback from the dominant culture is so extreme (because the dominant culture is built on a lie).

    There's a lot to quibble over in the IQ data because the dominant culture doesn't want it figured out but the Boasian blank slate is clearly total NONSENSE - invented out of whole cloth to change US immigration policy.

    If dog breeds can be more intelligent then human breeds can be more intelligent and if you create more (or less) intelligent dogs by breeding then you create more (or less) intelligent humans the same way.

    Anywhere there's a dog, horse or cattle breeder adjacent to a university there's an invisible wall of nonsense in between.
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  152. Rich says:
    @Wizard of Oz
    Are you serious? "I don't think they would have had the success they have had if not for the Wasps allowing them into their country clubs". When did the Wasps start letting them into "their" country clubs? And how could that have made any difference to their worldly success (any actual examples or evidence?). Do you even know what an extraordinarily disproportionate number of America's Nobel Prizes have been won by Jews? How do you explain them winning about ten times as many as their proportion of the total population would indicate?

    I think they started letting them into both their country clubs and universities in the early 20th century. I know both Obama and Bob Dylan have won Nobel Prizes, too, so I don’t think that’s actually a good barometer of achievement. I wouldn’t even know how to check the religion or ethnicity of American Nobel winners anyway, but if you want to, go ahead and let everyone know.

    Again, I’m not begrudging, nor discounting, the achievements of Jews and other minorities who’ve come to the US, I’m merely stating that it was the genius of the Wasps who built this nation and set up its infrastructure that allowed immigrant Jews, Poles, Italians, Hungarians, Greeks, etc, etc. to succeed. It was in the US that your favorite ethnic group succeeded so disproportionately, shouldn’t that be appreciated? Why do so many people seem to get upset if other people don’t accept the principle of Ashkenazi superiority? Israel is a nation with a majority Jewish population, if they are a tenth as successful as the Wasps have been with the nations they’ve founded, I will certainly tip my hat to them.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Intelligent Dasein

    I’m merely stating that it was the genius of the Wasps who built this nation and set up its infrastructure that allowed immigrant Jews, Poles, Italians, Hungarians, Greeks, etc, etc. to succeed.
     
    Yes, you've stated this very clearly and you are correct. The recalcitrance that others have displayed in acknowledging this point and its implications, is a genuine curiosity.
    , @Anon
    Add a "C" to WASP for the Scots and Scots-Irish and you're more or less covered.
    , @Wizard of Oz
    I'm not a psychometrician or psychologist but I suggest, with respect, that you are about 30 years of intermittent reading and discussing on and around the subject away from relevance to the issues Fred has been going on about or what can actually be said with some cettainty about differences in average cognitive abilities between groups. It doesn't help that you don't seem even to know that the Nobel Peace Prize is a completely different animal than those for sciences or the new one for economics which happens to have lots of Jewish winners too.

    Nor do you seem to know much about Israel which no longer has a majority of Ashkenazi Jews and/but has in fact a notably successful economy based on high tech. Of course its huge defence and immigrant integration costs have meant that its average standard of living is not notably luxurious.

    Your saying that the still current president of the US getting a Nobel Prize (for Peace from the Norwegians not science from the Swedes I note) shows it is not a measure of achievement is confused. You seem to be confusing here what you obviously consider to be a poor record as president with the absurd idea that anyone could be president and not have well above average cognitive ability (and measured IQ).

    And your remark that you wouldn't know how to discover the religion or ethnicity of American Nobel Prize winners suggests you should get your grandchildren to bring you up to the 21st century in use of Google and smartphones. Please get up to speed before waffling commonplace prejudices about subjects on which there is a lot of research and reliable literature (and unreliable like Stephen Jay Gould's "The Mismeasure of Man").
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  153. FKA Max says:
    @Che Guava

    Nearly five percent of Japanese are addicted to gambling – even though it’s still “illegal”
     
    Addicted to pachinko? You may well be right. The papa at one bar I used to like (now closed) would burn through 70,000 yen once or twice a month.

    Of the examples you cite, gambling on boat, bicycle and horse racing is legal.

    For the boat, cycle, and horse races, the only legal facilities are officially on-site, but the evening tabloids have a lot of coverage, so there must be a thriving and tolerated bookmaking scene. Maybe on-line betting now, too.

    Mahjong, gambling is illegal, but there are small mahjong parlours everywhere, and every player I know gambles, usually for very small stakes, but there must be exceptions to that (large-stakes games at some places).

    Pachinko and our version of slot machines, gambling is illegal, but both have a tolerated subterfuge to exchange wins for cash, in the case of pachinko, some people make a living out of it, there are comics and movies about it, instructional magazines, simulations of the machines to practice on with a game console, it is a small sub-culture.

    Some of the pros really make a very good living from it (anecdotes from playing friends and the very occasional coverage on mass-media convince me that this is not just a lure, a few really do consistently make pretty good money from pachinko).

    Where the govt. is really serious is in not allowing casino-style games. I have never seen a sign that they exist, would guess that Yakuza gangs sometimes hold high-stakes card games, at least, but there is no sign of illegal casinos.

    One of former Governor Ishihara's many ideas (mainly bad) was a legal casino near or by Tokyo Bay, his former colleagues in the ruling party did not allow it, so our polity seems serious on that.

    Thank you very much for your insider’s perspective!

    I actually partially agree with Mr. Reed’s criticism of the “race realist” community. They have an extreme blind spot or an extreme fetish when it comes to Northeast Asians’ and Ashkenazi Jews’ high IQ/SAT test scores and rarely seem to take into account other genetic factors like the MAOA gene and its different allele expressions among the different races; which is more, or at least as equally as important to do, IMO: http://www.unz.com/freed/iq-a-skeptics-view/#comment-1725649

    They are also obsessed with Black/common crime and seem to mostly ignore high white-collar crime rates among Ashkenazi Jews, Asians, etc.:

    It is impossible to suppose that East Asians commit less crime than Whites given the extent of bribery and “kick-backs” in Asian society, which is a way of life. Tax evasion and the use of a cash economy is also a matter of fact. None of this is considered by Rushton.[...]
    I am always flabbergasted by the assertion of many prominent ”race realists” that Asians/Northeast Asians have the lowest crime rates, low (violent) common crime rates that is, but they completely ignore, or are oblivious to Asian/Northeast Asian (non-violent) white-collar crime. [...]
    White-collar crime has been defined recently as the use of a significant position of power for illegal gain that results in damage or harm to victims as measured by financial loss, physical harm, and damage to the community’s moral climate. Most experts agree that the economic impact of white-collar crime is far more costly than ordinary crime.

    http://www.unz.com/isteve/sat-scandal/#comment-1544526

    On the Asian rise: I live in California. It is impossible to understand what people like me mean by “Asian test prep” unless you live in one of the areas where it exists. So unless you see “SAT academies” on every street corner, sometimes 3 to a building, and realize that each of those business is selling a minimum of 50-70 hours of test prep per kid, it might be difficult to understand. Kaplan has largely disappeared in my neck of the woods. Whites in my area are doing far, far less test prep. I don’t know why specifically, but I suspect that many of them have realized that grades determine so much of UC admissions that there’s no point in paying for a higher test score. A 2400 SAT scorer with a 3.8 GPA has zero chance at Berkeley, UCLA, and UCSD.

    You’ve mentioned that the SAT has no ability to predict IQs over 130. This is consistent with my observations (anecdotal though they are) and it also suggests, I think, that it would be possible for the Asians to achieve overrepresentation through test prep. This does not have to mean that Asians would be schlubs without test prep, of course.

    http://www.unz.com/isteve/he-who-controls-test-prep-controls-the-future/#comment-1512545

    Some more reading here, that might be of interest to you: http://www.unz.com/announcement/expanding-our-science-and-history-coverage/#comment-1692309

    Lynn is skeptical about environmental explanations of this
    difference. He says “Environmental explanations for the high Jewish [verbal] IQ are difficult to
    find. Even if it is supposed that Jews provide their children with a good environment for fostering the intelligence of their children, there is a problem for providing an explanation for why they do this”. [18] There are no shortages of environmental explanations of the high Jewish IQ, including Jewish urbanization and professional aggressiveness, a culture valuing learning and language (especially learning other languages which improves language cognitive abilities), and a culture fostering success. [19] Lynn’s statement is absurd because it is obvious why Jewish parents provide a good environment for fostering their children’s intelligence – and that is for success. [20]

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    • Replies: @Che Guava
    You are making many good points, I am glad that you appreciated my accurate comments.

    Of course, there are lotteries, too, and I know that some of the very wealthy make trips to Macao etc. for giant-stakes games, but it is not the same as mainland east Asia, many people wreck their finances over pachinko, but not much else.

    I wanted to reply to other specific points you make in your reply, but this site's policy (good, I think) of showing the thread in strict time order makes it difficult, will replying to the couple where I have relevant replies tomorrow or Wed. night.
    , @res

    They are also obsessed with Black/common crime and seem to mostly ignore high white-collar crime rates among Ashkenazi Jews, Asians, etc.:
     
    It's amazing how persistent this canard is. I guess that is what happens when something can be used to support the Narrative.

    Crime statistics by race are available at: https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2015/crime-in-the-u.s.-2015/tables/table-43

    I consider Forgery and counterfeiting, Fraud, and Embezzlement to be the white collar crimes in that table. If you look at the data you will see that for those crimes whites are represented at about their proportion of the population, blacks appear at about 2.5x their proportion of the population (more than for all crimes!), and the other groups represent a very small proportion.

    So contrary to your assertion, blacks are also overrepresented per capita as white collar criminals.
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  154. @utu
    I looked up synonyms antonyms for intelligent in Webster:

    Synonyms alert, brainy, bright, brilliant, clever, exceptional, fast, hyperintelligent, keen, nimble, quick, quick-witted, sharp, sharp-witted, smart, supersmart, ultrasmart

    Related Words
    apt, ingenious, resourceful; acute, astute, discerning, heady, insightful, knowing, perceptive, percipient, perspicacious, sagacious, sapient, savvy, wise; cerebral, erudite, genial, highbrow, knowledgeable, learned, literate, scholarly, well-read; educated, informed, schooled, skilled, trained; creative, inventive, judicious, prudent, sage, sane, sapient, sensible, sound, wise; crafty, cunning, foxy, shrewd, wily; logical, rational, reasonable

    Near Antonyms feebleminded, simpleminded; boobish, foolish, half-baked, idiotic (also idiotical), imbecile (or imbecilic), moronic, silly; ignorant, illiterate, lowbrow, nonintellectual, unacademic, uneducated, uninformed, unintellectual, untaught, unthinking; absurd, asinine, balmy, cockeyed, crackpot, crazy, cuckoo, daffy, daft, dippy, dotty, featherheaded, fool, half-baked, harebrained, insane, kooky (also kookie), loony (also looney), lunatic, mad, nonsensical, nutty, preposterous, sappy, screwball, tomfool, unwise, wacky (also whacky), zany

    Antonyms airheaded, birdbrained, boneheaded, brain-dead, brainless, bubbleheaded, chuckleheaded, dense, dim, dim-witted, doltish, dopey (also dopy), dorky [slang], dull, dumb, dunderheaded, empty-headed, fatuous, gormless [chiefly British], half-witted, knuckleheaded, lamebrain (or lamebrained), lunkheaded, mindless, obtuse, opaque, pinheaded, senseless, simple, slow, slow-witted, soft, softheaded, stupid, thick, thickheaded, thick-witted, unbrilliant, unintelligent, unsmart, vacuous, weak-minded, witless
     

    The IQists are reductionists. They do not need these words. Only one suffices, the IQ and the number attached to it. Life seems be simpler in the IQists world, right? They do not need personality traits to take into account either. So let get rid of these words from dictionary:

    Adventurous Affable Conscientious Cultured Dependable Discreet Fair Fearless Observant Impartial Independent Optimistic Intelligent Keen Gregarious Persistent Capable Charming Precise Confident Dutiful Encouraging Reliable Exuberant Helpful Humble Suave Imaginative Meticulous Obedient Trusting Valiant

    Laziness Picky Sullen Pompous Dishonesty Finicky Sarcastic Arrogant Cowardly Sneaky Rude Quarrelsome Impulsive Slovenly Self-centered Boorish Surly Unfriendly Unruly Thoughless Stingy Bossy Vulgar Malicious Conceited Obnoxious
     

    Simpletons like simple ideas. Ideas have consequences. Sometimes the phenomenon of the self-fulfilled prophesy kick in. IQists would like to construct IQ-topia where everybody is assigned the IQ number early in life and perhaps has the number tattooed on one's forehead. The life in IQ-topia is the life of just one number. Literature would be so much simpler. In the IQ-topia Tolstoy's War and Piece would be no more than 100 page long.

    ahh, I think I got where you are coming from. you basically disagree with the entire idea of measured IQ. or anything related.

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  155. annamaria says:
    @utu
    "I have news for Fred: Quibdo, Choco Department (about 100 percent black) does not look a bit like Cartagena."

    Many places do not look a bit like Cartagena:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hBGWY_rGny4

    Thank you. I am reposting your link:

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  156. Art says:

    Photo: Cartagena, Colombia. Do you really believe that this city was designed and built by people with a mean IQ of 84?

    To say that a mean IQ of 84 built Cartagena is preposterous – genius built Cartagena – mostly European genius. The very highest of human culture built that city – not average IQ. Individual genius brings down to the masses the actual knowledge needed to be smart.

    Culture feeds progress – culture is the reason behind these swings of IQ. It is culture that finds the genius among the masses, which makes for overall achievement.

    When a culture can reach the stability to allow the middle class intellectual cream to rise and consume the genius of others – is when the whole culture can be elevated. Well-fed, non-traumatized, well-educated children build greater IQ.

    If we want a better world we must acknowledge intellectual culture as the driving force of advancement – not group IQ.

    Peace — Art

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  157. @CanSpeccy

    The Holy Sacrament of Diversity is going to be overturned (it’s in the process of turning now) and the result will prove that Diversity + Proximity = War (sooner or later.)
     
    But the war will not begin in earnest before fighting-age whites and Christians are outnumbered both in the US and Europe. Then it'll be game over for the Europeans not only in North America but in Europe, an outcome our "leaders" evidently intend.

    Perhaps, but I think home field will be an advantage. Me & mine have nowhere else to go. The invaders know where they can retreat to.

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  158. @utu
    I looked up synonyms antonyms for intelligent in Webster:

    Synonyms alert, brainy, bright, brilliant, clever, exceptional, fast, hyperintelligent, keen, nimble, quick, quick-witted, sharp, sharp-witted, smart, supersmart, ultrasmart

    Related Words
    apt, ingenious, resourceful; acute, astute, discerning, heady, insightful, knowing, perceptive, percipient, perspicacious, sagacious, sapient, savvy, wise; cerebral, erudite, genial, highbrow, knowledgeable, learned, literate, scholarly, well-read; educated, informed, schooled, skilled, trained; creative, inventive, judicious, prudent, sage, sane, sapient, sensible, sound, wise; crafty, cunning, foxy, shrewd, wily; logical, rational, reasonable

    Near Antonyms feebleminded, simpleminded; boobish, foolish, half-baked, idiotic (also idiotical), imbecile (or imbecilic), moronic, silly; ignorant, illiterate, lowbrow, nonintellectual, unacademic, uneducated, uninformed, unintellectual, untaught, unthinking; absurd, asinine, balmy, cockeyed, crackpot, crazy, cuckoo, daffy, daft, dippy, dotty, featherheaded, fool, half-baked, harebrained, insane, kooky (also kookie), loony (also looney), lunatic, mad, nonsensical, nutty, preposterous, sappy, screwball, tomfool, unwise, wacky (also whacky), zany

    Antonyms airheaded, birdbrained, boneheaded, brain-dead, brainless, bubbleheaded, chuckleheaded, dense, dim, dim-witted, doltish, dopey (also dopy), dorky [slang], dull, dumb, dunderheaded, empty-headed, fatuous, gormless [chiefly British], half-witted, knuckleheaded, lamebrain (or lamebrained), lunkheaded, mindless, obtuse, opaque, pinheaded, senseless, simple, slow, slow-witted, soft, softheaded, stupid, thick, thickheaded, thick-witted, unbrilliant, unintelligent, unsmart, vacuous, weak-minded, witless
     

    The IQists are reductionists. They do not need these words. Only one suffices, the IQ and the number attached to it. Life seems be simpler in the IQists world, right? They do not need personality traits to take into account either. So let get rid of these words from dictionary:

    Adventurous Affable Conscientious Cultured Dependable Discreet Fair Fearless Observant Impartial Independent Optimistic Intelligent Keen Gregarious Persistent Capable Charming Precise Confident Dutiful Encouraging Reliable Exuberant Helpful Humble Suave Imaginative Meticulous Obedient Trusting Valiant

    Laziness Picky Sullen Pompous Dishonesty Finicky Sarcastic Arrogant Cowardly Sneaky Rude Quarrelsome Impulsive Slovenly Self-centered Boorish Surly Unfriendly Unruly Thoughless Stingy Bossy Vulgar Malicious Conceited Obnoxious
     

    Simpletons like simple ideas. Ideas have consequences. Sometimes the phenomenon of the self-fulfilled prophesy kick in. IQists would like to construct IQ-topia where everybody is assigned the IQ number early in life and perhaps has the number tattooed on one's forehead. The life in IQ-topia is the life of just one number. Literature would be so much simpler. In the IQ-topia Tolstoy's War and Piece would be no more than 100 page long.

    As always I agree with most part of your comment but I know your ideology affect your full factual understanding of this piece as I said in other comment about leftists and Freed. IQ measure intelligence, partly, part of their cognitive aspect, nothing more by now. If psychometricians start to embody the extreme relevance of rationality/wisdom and creativity”quantitative levels” so i think IQ will become much more accurate and that number will express more near the real size of our intellects.

    Psychometricians on the right, specially, are essentially concerned with “achievements” in school, faculty or university and in material terms, they pay little attention to the everyday “little’ achievements people usually do or not, mostly of them are social, emotional and rational.

    They believe this work-life cycle express intelligence, only this. In other words they are basically applying their own masculine and ant-worker mentality trying over-generalize intelligence, concepts and their expressions to their own side. Just like if engineers try to impose that engineering is the genuine or central manifestation of human intelligence.

    Unfortunately seems so many “intelligence experts” don’t appear to be intelligent enough to understand what they are studying, dedicating their lifes.

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    • Replies: @utu
    I have to admit that I agree with your comment. Except for the part "I know your ideology affect your full factual understanding." You do not know my ideology. By now I understand this stuff pretty well. What I try to figure out by reading here the articles and comments what does make all those people who are into the IQistry tick. Where are they coming from and what their psychological needs are being satisfied? Certainly this ain't the need to know and understand?
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  159. @Rich
    I think they started letting them into both their country clubs and universities in the early 20th century. I know both Obama and Bob Dylan have won Nobel Prizes, too, so I don't think that's actually a good barometer of achievement. I wouldn't even know how to check the religion or ethnicity of American Nobel winners anyway, but if you want to, go ahead and let everyone know.

    Again, I'm not begrudging, nor discounting, the achievements of Jews and other minorities who've come to the US, I'm merely stating that it was the genius of the Wasps who built this nation and set up its infrastructure that allowed immigrant Jews, Poles, Italians, Hungarians, Greeks, etc, etc. to succeed. It was in the US that your favorite ethnic group succeeded so disproportionately, shouldn't that be appreciated? Why do so many people seem to get upset if other people don't accept the principle of Ashkenazi superiority? Israel is a nation with a majority Jewish population, if they are a tenth as successful as the Wasps have been with the nations they've founded, I will certainly tip my hat to them.

    I’m merely stating that it was the genius of the Wasps who built this nation and set up its infrastructure that allowed immigrant Jews, Poles, Italians, Hungarians, Greeks, etc, etc. to succeed.

    Yes, you’ve stated this very clearly and you are correct. The recalcitrance that others have displayed in acknowledging this point and its implications, is a genuine curiosity.

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    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
    Yes to those who built a rich economically diverse country with freedoms and legal structure that provided opportunity for many non Wasps from the late 19th century to build on that for themsekves, the country and the modern world. But so what? If that's all he's saying what has that got to do with IQ or what IQ tests measure or group differences in average IQ?
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  160. Sean says:

    There is a lot of truth is the observation that Mexicans in Mexico can do thing fairly well, but where Fred falls down is in thinking Mexicans could do even better in the US.Because he is an Anglo cultural supremacist who thinks any immigrants must have great outcomes when given access to the unalloyed boon of GROWING UP IN THE USA, Fred assumes Mexicans are being held back by Mexican ways that depress their inhabitants potential for achievement. I have good news Mexican culture is GOOD for Mexicans.

    http://www.economist.com/news/special-report/21645996-one-american-six-now-hispanic-up-small-minority-two-generations-ago

    PREVIOUS immigrant groups typically saw progress with each passing generation, but Hispanic numbers have a habit of stalling or even heading backwards. American-born children of Hispanic immigrants tend to be less healthy than their parents, have higher divorce rates and go to jail more often. Jump from migrants’ children to their grandchildren, and studies have shown academic results slipping in the third generation. Conservatives fret about “downward assimilation” [...]Steve Murdock of Rice University, a former boss of the US Census bureau, recently published a paper warning Texans that Hispanics are not getting enough advanced degrees and qualifications to replace highly educated whites retiring from their state’s workforce. By 2050, his study predicts, Hispanic workers will outnumber white ones in Texas by almost three to one, but without a change in education policy the state will be poorer and less competitive.

    The best place for Mexican is in their own country, which funnily enough knows how to get the best out of them.

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  161. anon says: • Disclaimer
    @jivilov
    Great article. Been wondering why the "race realists" haven't been able to produce much new stuff since The Bell Curve. Or why they can't come up with sensible explanations regarding the Flynn Effect, rapid changes in group IQ, or the ability of countries with supposedly borderline mentally retarded populations to handle modern infrastructure, finance, etc.

    This pretty much blows out of the water any presumptions of the IQ-is-destiny crowd about how "scientific" they are. Thanks Mr. Reed!

    Been wondering why the “race realists” haven’t been able to produce much new stuff since The Bell Curve.

    It’s been replicated many times. The media/academia won’t report it.

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  162. anon says: • Disclaimer
    @wealthy farmer
    Yes, but could that genius composer survive for one week out on the steppes of Mongolia, in winter? DUBIOUS.

    While genius composer is dying of hypothermia, 'mongoloids' are warm and cozy in their yurts, drinking hot yak butter tea, happily chatting and gossiping....

    The genius composer would be the chief or the witch doctor – sitting in the yurt with the rest.

    In a simple society you only need a few leaders to handle the complicated stuff – hence a bell curve where the bulk of the population are around the average level needed for that society and 6-16% are much higher and capable of dealing with the rest.

    populations with average 85 IQ have a significant minority who are 100+

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  163. anon says: • Disclaimer
    @Uebersetzer
    The Swiss today are generally prosperous and about as First World as they come, but historically they were very violent and a significant number of their young men would leave to fight as mercenaries for foreigners. In Utopia, Thomas More alluded to a violent nation who the Utopians hired to do their fighting for them so they would not have to, and it is widely believed he was alluding to the Swiss of his day, who certainly were not yet the "gnomes of Zurich". The Reformation did not contribute to Swiss harmony either, as Catholic and Protestant areas frequently fought one another. Was their IQ low in 1520 and high in 1920, or something?

    The Swiss fought a lot because they were so diverse.

    After they developed the canton system they didn’t fight so much.

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  164. joe webb says:

    among the multitudes of errors, the mexico lover here, neglects to remark that every IQ bell curve contains a left and right tail. The tale is that a right tail includes a fair number of folks who are smart enough to build things and also smart enough to repress their dummies thoroughly.

    If they do not, their world dies. So, the various architectural monuments in the Third World (and nothing else worth writing home about) indicate a few fellows with brains of the engineering type, not usually associated with Free Speech, etc.) are there because , again, every bell curve has a right tail with a few smarties.

    Fred on Everything is Nothing. I recall the old communist jewish gal in S. Africa, Nadine Gordimer , who championed Black insurrection, etc. A couple years ago she experienced the fruits of her labor by a home invasion by her Liberated Ones. She said she was not raped, and that may be true since she, if ever she had any attractiveness, was long gone.

    Fred needs to get a similar experience, but he, like Nadine, will never admit to Reality.

    Joe Webb

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  165. anon says: • Disclaimer
    @utu
    I looked up synonyms antonyms for intelligent in Webster:

    Synonyms alert, brainy, bright, brilliant, clever, exceptional, fast, hyperintelligent, keen, nimble, quick, quick-witted, sharp, sharp-witted, smart, supersmart, ultrasmart

    Related Words
    apt, ingenious, resourceful; acute, astute, discerning, heady, insightful, knowing, perceptive, percipient, perspicacious, sagacious, sapient, savvy, wise; cerebral, erudite, genial, highbrow, knowledgeable, learned, literate, scholarly, well-read; educated, informed, schooled, skilled, trained; creative, inventive, judicious, prudent, sage, sane, sapient, sensible, sound, wise; crafty, cunning, foxy, shrewd, wily; logical, rational, reasonable

    Near Antonyms feebleminded, simpleminded; boobish, foolish, half-baked, idiotic (also idiotical), imbecile (or imbecilic), moronic, silly; ignorant, illiterate, lowbrow, nonintellectual, unacademic, uneducated, uninformed, unintellectual, untaught, unthinking; absurd, asinine, balmy, cockeyed, crackpot, crazy, cuckoo, daffy, daft, dippy, dotty, featherheaded, fool, half-baked, harebrained, insane, kooky (also kookie), loony (also looney), lunatic, mad, nonsensical, nutty, preposterous, sappy, screwball, tomfool, unwise, wacky (also whacky), zany

    Antonyms airheaded, birdbrained, boneheaded, brain-dead, brainless, bubbleheaded, chuckleheaded, dense, dim, dim-witted, doltish, dopey (also dopy), dorky [slang], dull, dumb, dunderheaded, empty-headed, fatuous, gormless [chiefly British], half-witted, knuckleheaded, lamebrain (or lamebrained), lunkheaded, mindless, obtuse, opaque, pinheaded, senseless, simple, slow, slow-witted, soft, softheaded, stupid, thick, thickheaded, thick-witted, unbrilliant, unintelligent, unsmart, vacuous, weak-minded, witless
     

    The IQists are reductionists. They do not need these words. Only one suffices, the IQ and the number attached to it. Life seems be simpler in the IQists world, right? They do not need personality traits to take into account either. So let get rid of these words from dictionary:

    Adventurous Affable Conscientious Cultured Dependable Discreet Fair Fearless Observant Impartial Independent Optimistic Intelligent Keen Gregarious Persistent Capable Charming Precise Confident Dutiful Encouraging Reliable Exuberant Helpful Humble Suave Imaginative Meticulous Obedient Trusting Valiant

    Laziness Picky Sullen Pompous Dishonesty Finicky Sarcastic Arrogant Cowardly Sneaky Rude Quarrelsome Impulsive Slovenly Self-centered Boorish Surly Unfriendly Unruly Thoughless Stingy Bossy Vulgar Malicious Conceited Obnoxious
     

    Simpletons like simple ideas. Ideas have consequences. Sometimes the phenomenon of the self-fulfilled prophesy kick in. IQists would like to construct IQ-topia where everybody is assigned the IQ number early in life and perhaps has the number tattooed on one's forehead. The life in IQ-topia is the life of just one number. Literature would be so much simpler. In the IQ-topia Tolstoy's War and Piece would be no more than 100 page long.

    The IQists are reductionists. They do not need these words. Only one suffices, the IQ and the number attached to it.

    I’d say the reason they often come across as reductionist is because the pushback from the dominant culture is so extreme (because the dominant culture is built on a lie).

    There’s a lot to quibble over in the IQ data because the dominant culture doesn’t want it figured out but the Boasian blank slate is clearly total NONSENSE – invented out of whole cloth to change US immigration policy.

    If dog breeds can be more intelligent then human breeds can be more intelligent and if you create more (or less) intelligent dogs by breeding then you create more (or less) intelligent humans the same way.

    Anywhere there’s a dog, horse or cattle breeder adjacent to a university there’s an invisible wall of nonsense in between.

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  166. Anon says: • Disclaimer
    @Rich
    I think they started letting them into both their country clubs and universities in the early 20th century. I know both Obama and Bob Dylan have won Nobel Prizes, too, so I don't think that's actually a good barometer of achievement. I wouldn't even know how to check the religion or ethnicity of American Nobel winners anyway, but if you want to, go ahead and let everyone know.

    Again, I'm not begrudging, nor discounting, the achievements of Jews and other minorities who've come to the US, I'm merely stating that it was the genius of the Wasps who built this nation and set up its infrastructure that allowed immigrant Jews, Poles, Italians, Hungarians, Greeks, etc, etc. to succeed. It was in the US that your favorite ethnic group succeeded so disproportionately, shouldn't that be appreciated? Why do so many people seem to get upset if other people don't accept the principle of Ashkenazi superiority? Israel is a nation with a majority Jewish population, if they are a tenth as successful as the Wasps have been with the nations they've founded, I will certainly tip my hat to them.

    Add a “C” to WASP for the Scots and Scots-Irish and you’re more or less covered.

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  167. @Intelligent Dasein

    I’m merely stating that it was the genius of the Wasps who built this nation and set up its infrastructure that allowed immigrant Jews, Poles, Italians, Hungarians, Greeks, etc, etc. to succeed.
     
    Yes, you've stated this very clearly and you are correct. The recalcitrance that others have displayed in acknowledging this point and its implications, is a genuine curiosity.

    Yes to those who built a rich economically diverse country with freedoms and legal structure that provided opportunity for many non Wasps from the late 19th century to build on that for themsekves, the country and the modern world. But so what? If that’s all he’s saying what has that got to do with IQ or what IQ tests measure or group differences in average IQ?

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    • Replies: @Intelligent Dasein
    He's setting up a double reductio with regard to Ashkenazis and their supposedly high IQs. He's saying, on the one hand, that if Askenazis really do possess high average IQs, then that which IQ tests measure must not be really all that significant, since Western Civilization is really what we're interested in here, and WASPs invented Western Civilization while Ashkenazis merely benefitted therefrom; and, on the other hand, that if IQ tests really do measure intelligence, and if high IQs are all it takes to produce something like Western Civilization, then the Askenazis reputed high scores must be either a fraudulent data set or a fluke, since they did not produce it and the WASPs did.
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  168. @Anon

    A low mean IQ doesn’t preclude significant achievements.

    You could create great music with one genius composer, one fairly bright choirmaster, and a chorus of mongoloids.
     
    A low IQ doesn't preclude significant achievements, except for most of the time.

    Are you disagreeing with Yoyo or have you perhas missed his/her point? (“mean IQ”)

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    • Replies: @Anon

    Are you disagreeing with Yoyo or have you perhas missed his/her point? (“mean IQ”)
     
    I'm pointing out that creating hypothetical exceptions does not undermine a scientifically verified Bell Curve. Apparently, it cannot be pointed out enough.
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  169. @Wizard of Oz
    Yes to those who built a rich economically diverse country with freedoms and legal structure that provided opportunity for many non Wasps from the late 19th century to build on that for themsekves, the country and the modern world. But so what? If that's all he's saying what has that got to do with IQ or what IQ tests measure or group differences in average IQ?

    He’s setting up a double reductio with regard to Ashkenazis and their supposedly high IQs. He’s saying, on the one hand, that if Askenazis really do possess high average IQs, then that which IQ tests measure must not be really all that significant, since Western Civilization is really what we’re interested in here, and WASPs invented Western Civilization while Ashkenazis merely benefitted therefrom; and, on the other hand, that if IQ tests really do measure intelligence, and if high IQs are all it takes to produce something like Western Civilization, then the Askenazis reputed high scores must be either a fraudulent data set or a fluke, since they did not produce it and the WASPs did.

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    • Agree: utu
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  170. @Rich
    I think they started letting them into both their country clubs and universities in the early 20th century. I know both Obama and Bob Dylan have won Nobel Prizes, too, so I don't think that's actually a good barometer of achievement. I wouldn't even know how to check the religion or ethnicity of American Nobel winners anyway, but if you want to, go ahead and let everyone know.

    Again, I'm not begrudging, nor discounting, the achievements of Jews and other minorities who've come to the US, I'm merely stating that it was the genius of the Wasps who built this nation and set up its infrastructure that allowed immigrant Jews, Poles, Italians, Hungarians, Greeks, etc, etc. to succeed. It was in the US that your favorite ethnic group succeeded so disproportionately, shouldn't that be appreciated? Why do so many people seem to get upset if other people don't accept the principle of Ashkenazi superiority? Israel is a nation with a majority Jewish population, if they are a tenth as successful as the Wasps have been with the nations they've founded, I will certainly tip my hat to them.

    I’m not a psychometrician or psychologist but I suggest, with respect, that you are about 30 years of intermittent reading and discussing on and around the subject away from relevance to the issues Fred has been going on about or what can actually be said with some cettainty about differences in average cognitive abilities between groups. It doesn’t help that you don’t seem even to know that the Nobel Peace Prize is a completely different animal than those for sciences or the new one for economics which happens to have lots of Jewish winners too.

    Nor do you seem to know much about Israel which no longer has a majority of Ashkenazi Jews and/but has in fact a notably successful economy based on high tech. Of course its huge defence and immigrant integration costs have meant that its average standard of living is not notably luxurious.

    Your saying that the still current president of the US getting a Nobel Prize (for Peace from the Norwegians not science from the Swedes I note) shows it is not a measure of achievement is confused. You seem to be confusing here what you obviously consider to be a poor record as president with the absurd idea that anyone could be president and not have well above average cognitive ability (and measured IQ).

    And your remark that you wouldn’t know how to discover the religion or ethnicity of American Nobel Prize winners suggests you should get your grandchildren to bring you up to the 21st century in use of Google and smartphones. Please get up to speed before waffling commonplace prejudices about subjects on which there is a lot of research and reliable literature (and unreliable like Stephen Jay Gould’s “The Mismeasure of Man”).

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    • Replies: @Rich
    You're a sarcastic fellow, aren't you? Why are you so hot and bothered about other people not believing in Ashkenazi superiority? You guys are really hung up on believing you're smarter than everyone else, aren't you? Do you really think I don't know that prizes for Peace and Literature aren't the same as those awarded for Science? My point is that if members of the Nobel Peace Prize committee can make such an obviously bad choice, the committee that chooses their science award recipients is also suspect. That might be beyond your "genius IQ' to comprehend, but it's pretty obvious.
    I would suggest that you are some kind of an Ashkenazi supremacist who tries to make himself feel superior to others because someone somewhere who may share a bit of ethnic and religious history with you was successful, you feel successful.
    Produce for me the IQ tests that show your group as having the highest IQ. Show me how the participants in the test were chosen, how tightly the test was supervised and evidence the test wasn't tampered with. The most reliable tests we have regarding Jewish intelligence come from the Israeli military which shows the average IQ of Israelis to be in the mid 90 range. Where is the IQ test that you're using to base your assumption of higher IQs for the Ashkenazi subset of Jews? I've searched the web and can't find any evidence of a test showing this.
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  171. @Santoculto

    some true out-of-Iberia Sephardi Jews have substantially higher heritable verbal and mathematical abilities
     
    I think all jewish groups have this pattern, explicitly observable by IQ tests OR NOT.

    Or smarter jewish individuals of all groups have the same pattern than a avg ashkenaziS.

    No, not true I think of the mass of Mizrahi Jews and certainly not the Falasha from Ethiopia.

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    • Replies: @Santoculto
    Well we have higher and Lower IQ merchants but they tend to have the same personality types and mental styles. All them in the end are merchants.
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  172. FKA Max says:
    @EH
    All interesting. It should be noted though, that the higher the intelligence the lower the brain metabolism increase for any particular task. Intelligence is not muscular effort, but finesse.

    It should be noted though, that the higher the intelligence the lower the brain metabolism increase for any particular task. Intelligence is not muscular effort, but finesse.

    I am not sure I quite agree with this, but you could be right. If one owns a high performance/horsepower race car, and even if one was to drive it gently and smartly it will still have a relatively bad base gas mileage compared to an average non-racing car. Just as an analogy.

    I believe high intelligence is a built-in/genetic feature, that brings certain challenges with it (higher brain energy/fuel consumption being one of them).

    Also, if you were correct, don’t high(er)-IQ people tend to devote much more of their time and energy toward solving and thinking about the “big and hard” (often stressful; having a non-“ignorance is blissful” attitude) and mentally-challenging problems and tasks facing the world and humanity; and are therefore mentally much more active and are burning many more “mental calories” than the average person?

    So, in most cases, short periods of additional mental effort require a little more brainpower than usual, but not much more. Most laboratory experiments, however, have not subjected volunteers to several hours’ worth of challenging mental acrobatics. [...]
    Some studies have found that when people are not very good at a particular task, they exert more mental effort and use more glucose and that, likewise, the more skilled you are, the more efficient your brain is and the less glucose you need. Complicating matters, at least one study suggests the opposite—that more skillful brains recruit more energy.*

    https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/thinking-hard-calories/

    It is worth noting that there is even dissenting opinion about the alleged survival value of high intelligence. Arthur C. Clarke has said: “It has yet to be proven that intelligence has any survival value.” Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart has also said: “Neither a lofty degree of intelligence nor imagination nor both together make genius.”

    Swiss researchers Fredric Mer[y] and others at the University of Fribourg found that fast learning fruit fly larvae competing against more slow-witted ones in scarce food conditions did not win! More energy was devoted to making and rearranging neural connections in their brains leaving less energy to forage. Decisive action requires consideration of limited alternatives and smart people often out-smart themselves by complicating matters.

    http://www.unz.com/gnxp/why-its-not-surprising-west-africans-dominate-sprinting/#comment-1530687

    My apologies for not having been more precise in my above comment. I should have written, that individually high IQ persons will manage just fine on their own, and probably will live pretty long, productive, and semi- to completely-fulfilling lives, but collectively they are an endangered species, due to their reproductive behavior/inactivity, and therefore worthy of protection, (financial, etc.) nurturing/aid, and other sorts of positive encouragement and reinforcement in general.

    http://www.unz.com/runz/when-viacom-ceo-philippe-dauman-still-had-an-iq-of-260/#comment-1526049

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    • Replies: @Santoculto
    Maybe creativity require more mental energy while learn something you are naturally skilled ("intelligence") require less.
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  173. @Wizard of Oz
    No, not true I think of the mass of Mizrahi Jews and certainly not the Falasha from Ethiopia.

    Well we have higher and Lower IQ merchants but they tend to have the same personality types and mental styles. All them in the end are merchants.

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  174. @FKA Max

    It should be noted though, that the higher the intelligence the lower the brain metabolism increase for any particular task. Intelligence is not muscular effort, but finesse.
     
    I am not sure I quite agree with this, but you could be right. If one owns a high performance/horsepower race car, and even if one was to drive it gently and smartly it will still have a relatively bad base gas mileage compared to an average non-racing car. Just as an analogy.

    I believe high intelligence is a built-in/genetic feature, that brings certain challenges with it (higher brain energy/fuel consumption being one of them).

    Also, if you were correct, don't high(er)-IQ people tend to devote much more of their time and energy toward solving and thinking about the ``big and hard'' (often stressful; having a non-``ignorance is blissful'' attitude) and mentally-challenging problems and tasks facing the world and humanity; and are therefore mentally much more active and are burning many more ``mental calories'' than the average person?

    So, in most cases, short periods of additional mental effort require a little more brainpower than usual, but not much more. Most laboratory experiments, however, have not subjected volunteers to several hours' worth of challenging mental acrobatics. [...]
    Some studies have found that when people are not very good at a particular task, they exert more mental effort and use more glucose and that, likewise, the more skilled you are, the more efficient your brain is and the less glucose you need. Complicating matters, at least one study suggests the opposite—that more skillful brains recruit more energy.*
     
    - https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/thinking-hard-calories/

    It is worth noting that there is even dissenting opinion about the alleged survival value of high intelligence. Arthur C. Clarke has said: “It has yet to be proven that intelligence has any survival value.” Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart has also said: “Neither a lofty degree of intelligence nor imagination nor both together make genius.”

    Swiss researchers Fredric Mer[y] and others at the University of Fribourg found that fast learning fruit fly larvae competing against more slow-witted ones in scarce food conditions did not win! More energy was devoted to making and rearranging neural connections in their brains leaving less energy to forage. Decisive action requires consideration of limited alternatives and smart people often out-smart themselves by complicating matters.
     
    - http://www.unz.com/gnxp/why-its-not-surprising-west-africans-dominate-sprinting/#comment-1530687


    My apologies for not having been more precise in my above comment. I should have written, that individually high IQ persons will manage just fine on their own, and probably will live pretty long, productive, and semi- to completely-fulfilling lives, but collectively they are an endangered species, due to their reproductive behavior/inactivity, and therefore worthy of protection, (financial, etc.) nurturing/aid, and other sorts of positive encouragement and reinforcement in general.
     
    - http://www.unz.com/runz/when-viacom-ceo-philippe-dauman-still-had-an-iq-of-260/#comment-1526049

    Maybe creativity require more mental energy while learn something you are naturally skilled (“intelligence”) require less.

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  175. Rich says:
    @Wizard of Oz
    I'm not a psychometrician or psychologist but I suggest, with respect, that you are about 30 years of intermittent reading and discussing on and around the subject away from relevance to the issues Fred has been going on about or what can actually be said with some cettainty about differences in average cognitive abilities between groups. It doesn't help that you don't seem even to know that the Nobel Peace Prize is a completely different animal than those for sciences or the new one for economics which happens to have lots of Jewish winners too.

    Nor do you seem to know much about Israel which no longer has a majority of Ashkenazi Jews and/but has in fact a notably successful economy based on high tech. Of course its huge defence and immigrant integration costs have meant that its average standard of living is not notably luxurious.

    Your saying that the still current president of the US getting a Nobel Prize (for Peace from the Norwegians not science from the Swedes I note) shows it is not a measure of achievement is confused. You seem to be confusing here what you obviously consider to be a poor record as president with the absurd idea that anyone could be president and not have well above average cognitive ability (and measured IQ).

    And your remark that you wouldn't know how to discover the religion or ethnicity of American Nobel Prize winners suggests you should get your grandchildren to bring you up to the 21st century in use of Google and smartphones. Please get up to speed before waffling commonplace prejudices about subjects on which there is a lot of research and reliable literature (and unreliable like Stephen Jay Gould's "The Mismeasure of Man").

    You’re a sarcastic fellow, aren’t you? Why are you so hot and bothered about other people not believing in Ashkenazi superiority? You guys are really hung up on believing you’re smarter than everyone else, aren’t you? Do you really think I don’t know that prizes for Peace and Literature aren’t the same as those awarded for Science? My point is that if members of the Nobel Peace Prize committee can make such an obviously bad choice, the committee that chooses their science award recipients is also suspect. That might be beyond your “genius IQ’ to comprehend, but it’s pretty obvious.
    I would suggest that you are some kind of an Ashkenazi supremacist who tries to make himself feel superior to others because someone somewhere who may share a bit of ethnic and religious history with you was successful, you feel successful.
    Produce for me the IQ tests that show your group as having the highest IQ. Show me how the participants in the test were chosen, how tightly the test was supervised and evidence the test wasn’t tampered with. The most reliable tests we have regarding Jewish intelligence come from the Israeli military which shows the average IQ of Israelis to be in the mid 90 range. Where is the IQ test that you’re using to base your assumption of higher IQs for the Ashkenazi subset of Jews? I’ve searched the web and can’t find any evidence of a test showing this.

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    • Agree: utu
    • Replies: @FKA Max
    Interesting in this context:

    Albert Einstein, Karl Marx and Sigmund Freud Exposed!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y4v-OuwdW6U

    Published on Sep 23, 2013

    The truth about these fake media/academia idols.

    Christopher Jon Bjerknes - Albert Einstein: The Myth, the Plagiarist & the Zionist - Hour 1

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T1TUqw96iVw

    Published on Feb 29, 2016

    Christopher Jon Bjerknes is a writer and researcher who has published numerous books and articles on the history of the theory of relativity, Einstein, Zionism and the Armenian Genocide. “Albert Einstein: The Incorrigible Plagiarist” and “Mileva Einstein-Marity: Einstein’s Partner in Crime” are among Bjerknes’ most controversial works.

    Some critics argue that the prestige of the Prize in Economics derives in part from its association with the Nobel Prizes, an association that has often been a source of controversy. Among them is the Swedish human rights lawyer Peter Nobel, a great-grandson of Ludvig Nobel.[28] Nobel criticizes the awarding institution of misusing his family’s name, and states that no member of the Nobel family has ever had the intention of establishing a prize in economics.[29] [...]

    Overall, Jews or people of Jewish descent [Note 1] have won a total of 41% of all the Nobel Prizes in economics,

     
    - http://www.unz.com/isteve/nyt-undocumented-student-denounces-free-speech-on-immigration-policy/#comment-1639898
    , @Wizard of Oz
    A glance is all I can bear. I am used to some minimum of logic and precision in arguments and irritated by baseless false assumptions.
    (a) I have no known Jewish ancestors so you are letting your muddled brain make things up.
    (b) the words I use do not include "superiority" but do refer to the mathematical and verbal cognitive abilities which are obviously critical to many of the admired Jewish successes in the post Enlightenment West into which they were emancipated after about 1760;
    (c) your reference to the Israeli military's testing is just dopey especially combined with your inability to do something as elementary as Googling for "what is the best estimate of Ashkenazi Jewish IQ" which will give you a very informative reading list led off by something from Greg Cochran who sometimes contributes comments on UR and is perhaps the leading expert on the subject as you would know if you read Nicholas Wade's NYT review of the work he did with Henry Harpending and anor. about 10 years ago. Did you not understand the point about Ashkenazim and Mizrahi Jews?
    (d) your defence of your silly point about a couple of prizes with the name Nobel attached being given to people you think aren't wonderful get even more bizarre. (Stop digging). You say you are aware of the prizes for Peace and Literature not being the same as those for sciences then immediately disclose your great ignorance, laziness and ignorance that you are ignorant. Your reasoning is that if the Peace Prize committee can make such an obviously bad choice** then "the [sic] committee which chooses their [sic] science award recipients is also suspect". What is your defence at this stage of the discussion against your ignorance of the fact that the Peace Prize is awarded by a Norwegian organisation and the science prizes by a Swedish organisation - not the same organisation as your word "their" implies? Indeed (fom memory: I don't need precise accuracy to make the point) physics and chemistry prizes are awarded by the Royal Swedish Academy of Sciences, the literature prize by the Swedish Academy and the Medicine and Physiology Prize - another science prize - by the Karolinska Institute.

    So your point comes down to something like saying that a couple of charlatans have been elected to the Royal Society and the (US) National Academy of Sciences over a century and more so we shouldn't regard election to those bodies as any evidence for the superior intellects of most of their members. And of course George W. Bush got into Yale so there's no great evidence of intellectual promise in getting into the Ivy League (and don't think Ron Unz's demonstration that the Ivies are not as meritocratic as Caltech even touches the sides of your misconceived argument).

    **as to the Peace Prize specifically I would interpret its conferring as closer to propaganda than objective judgment, or perhaps as a way of helping a process keep up momentum. Hardly relevant FWIW to IQ at all either in the committee members or the recipients or to judgments on scientific achievement.

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  176. KenH says:

    Fred’s a funny guy because I’m pretty sure a number of years ago Fred wrote an article which was in part an ode to Jews over their high IQ’s and concomitant accomplishments relative to everyone else. I almost got the impression that mestizos were doing the physical labor while Jews were attending to the brain tasks while whites brought up the rear. Yet in this article he decries and laments “IQists” when practiced by non-Jewish whites who are using it as a tool to compare white to non-whites and his beloved mestizos.

    The other thing is that Jews are IQist in Israel but anti-IQist in the Western diaspora since that gives them a competitive advantage over the vast numbers of non-Jews they live among and often loathe.

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  177. utu says:

    “Fred’s a funny guy because I’m pretty sure a number of years ago Fred wrote an article which was in part an ode to Jews over their high IQ’s …” – He is all over. Whatever suits him at a given moment. But you see, this the whole point of this BS IQ stuff.

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  178. joe webb says:

    about 5 years ago at an anti-immigrant demo in Petaluma CA ( slightly north of SF Bay Area and close to grape growers and some other agriculture and Santa Rosa, a used to be cow-town but now a wonderfully diverse city with many gangs, mexico of course….I had deployed my Uncle Sam act with a sign about borders, and so on.

    A big and tall guy strides up to me with a cowboy hat and says, “I’m a Mexican!” without a smile on his face. I said, “no you’re not, you got blue eyes, are tall and you are a Spaniard. ” He laughed and said, “we are shipping all our shit people up to you.”

    Mexico is approximately 9 per cent Spaniard, who have been keeping their blood relatively pure for a long time, after having miscegenated a while back of course. The Portuguese and the Spaniards came without women and the English did come with their women. The difference is a century or two and Protestantism vs. Catholicism.

    About 60% in Mexico are mestizos, and 30 % are injuns, with an average IQ, per Lynn, of about 83. Put an injun and a Spaniard together and you get an IQ of about 90. Now, I dunno about the Spanish these days. Spain’s IQ is 97 per Lynn, and Portugal’s is 95, as I recall (Portugal was the only European country to bring in African slaves…I have read…true?)

    My only brief sojourn in Spain was going over the border from the Dordoggne (?) in France to see Gaudi’s architecture in Barcelona. It was very hot. I had two nights and 3 days there, and got nicked or attempted nicking , as in petty theft, 5 times. Never anywhere else in Europe. (Gaudi’s art is worth seeing but not worth a special trip…stick to the picture books.)

    So, Europe’s southern blood probably leaves something to be desired, given the Arab and Turk mixtures over the centuries. Thank god the Germans rescued Europe after the fall of Rome, by invading it. The beauty of some Spanish ladies , however, is probably due in part to Arab blood.
    The typical aryan woman has long legs but a face that is somewhat mannish. I prefer brunettes but with legs…you can’t have everything.

    So, Fred on Nothing spreads his verbiage around about how great mexicans are. My local mid-peninsula (south of San Francisco) jail in Redwood City, has just added another jail to handle the mexican diversity. Go into the Hall of Justice, and the courtroom floors are about 90 % peopled with mexicans. I assume that the remaining ten percent are about half white lawyers.

    Race Traitors are real, plentiful, and like many jews, their mouths never shut up.
    Joe Webb

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    • Replies: @edNels
    I know what your talkin' about, the only folks that have enough self preservation visa race are the Jews Japs and chinamen. (and who ever I left out, aint' too important.

    So since most of the americans and europeans are Christians, they already are worshiping a Jew. Probably don't think of it like that, because Jesus got crucified, but it was in the holy land, and he was a jew, so it is said. Until I see otherwise, he was. He must have been a higher than normal IQ type, maybe even a psychic or shaman.

    So, since the organized religions of Christianity have mainly been totally cooped into Mammon, gots to realize that, and figure another strategy. OK, go find a reasonably acceptable Jewis, not too ethnic looking,there are many, and convert to the Jew religion. THen you are protected, and you can be a jew for christ at home in your basement if that helps, and go to temple and all that stuff.

    I doubt there would be much success to conversion with out the marriage angle, people would be against it, and they have endless road blocks to conversion, as I was told.

    But when you know there is organized miscegenation well advanced even through Scandinavia to break up the blond critical mass center, (Barbara Spector tells it out loud).

    Europe is being taken care of under full view. Russia is well mixed, but has some nordic components that bug some runty little squirts, that's pretty plain.

    I don't know where you could find a better spot to go forth and multiply successfully than to be a jew, they're the only ones who have any protected status today.

    Why are you so down on Mexican indigenous, many of them were the ancestors of the American indians, who were chased away. America was a beautiful place before the
    Spanish came and murdered and enslaved pillaged. Spanish, half Moor blood of course!

    Something for everybody
    , @Songbird
    I agree. Jury duty is eye-opening. My last experience: all the jurors were white (I'm guessing the non-whites were among the people who didn't show up.) The people hanging out on the court floors (giant herd) were nearly all brown. Everyone who betokened law and order or civilization was white.

    The accused, an immigrant, had tattoos on all his fingers. He was obviously guilty from his own testimony, but there were too many brainwashed, bleeding-hearts on the jury. They kept making absurd excuses. They wanted a videotape, and so he got off scott-free. All that expense - the prosecutor, the defense lawyer, the judge, the court officers, the cop who testified, the jurors' time - was wasted.

    And this is alarming to think about - theoretically, the juries are only getting stupider.
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  179. utu says:
    @jivilov
    Great article. Been wondering why the "race realists" haven't been able to produce much new stuff since The Bell Curve. Or why they can't come up with sensible explanations regarding the Flynn Effect, rapid changes in group IQ, or the ability of countries with supposedly borderline mentally retarded populations to handle modern infrastructure, finance, etc.

    This pretty much blows out of the water any presumptions of the IQ-is-destiny crowd about how "scientific" they are. Thanks Mr. Reed!

    “Been wondering why the “race realists” haven’t been able to produce much new stuff since The Bell Curve.”

    Because there is nothing to it. Charles Murray wrote couple article son Jewish superiority and since he has a comfy living on neocon money. More recently he started supporting gay marriage.

    Do you think these people those people like Murrays and Karlins, etc are for real? There are only two kinds among them: smooth operators or useful idiots. Still they can do enough damage to keep the herd of iSteve audience and similar ilk yapping for ever. Divide and rule cleverly applied works every time.

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  180. FKA Max says:
    @Rich
    You're a sarcastic fellow, aren't you? Why are you so hot and bothered about other people not believing in Ashkenazi superiority? You guys are really hung up on believing you're smarter than everyone else, aren't you? Do you really think I don't know that prizes for Peace and Literature aren't the same as those awarded for Science? My point is that if members of the Nobel Peace Prize committee can make such an obviously bad choice, the committee that chooses their science award recipients is also suspect. That might be beyond your "genius IQ' to comprehend, but it's pretty obvious.
    I would suggest that you are some kind of an Ashkenazi supremacist who tries to make himself feel superior to others because someone somewhere who may share a bit of ethnic and religious history with you was successful, you feel successful.
    Produce for me the IQ tests that show your group as having the highest IQ. Show me how the participants in the test were chosen, how tightly the test was supervised and evidence the test wasn't tampered with. The most reliable tests we have regarding Jewish intelligence come from the Israeli military which shows the average IQ of Israelis to be in the mid 90 range. Where is the IQ test that you're using to base your assumption of higher IQs for the Ashkenazi subset of Jews? I've searched the web and can't find any evidence of a test showing this.

    Interesting in this context:

    Albert Einstein, Karl Marx and Sigmund Freud Exposed!

    Published on Sep 23, 2013

    The truth about these fake media/academia idols.

    Christopher Jon Bjerknes – Albert Einstein: The Myth, the Plagiarist & the Zionist – Hour 1

    Published on Feb 29, 2016

    Christopher Jon Bjerknes is a writer and researcher who has published numerous books and articles on the history of the theory of relativity, Einstein, Zionism and the Armenian Genocide. “Albert Einstein: The Incorrigible Plagiarist” and “Mileva Einstein-Marity: Einstein’s Partner in Crime” are among Bjerknes’ most controversial works.

    Some critics argue that the prestige of the Prize in Economics derives in part from its association with the Nobel Prizes, an association that has often been a source of controversy. Among them is the Swedish human rights lawyer Peter Nobel, a great-grandson of Ludvig Nobel.[28] Nobel criticizes the awarding institution of misusing his family’s name, and states that no member of the Nobel family has ever had the intention of establishing a prize in economics.[29] [...]

    Overall, Jews or people of Jewish descent [Note 1] have won a total of 41% of all the Nobel Prizes in economics,

    http://www.unz.com/isteve/nyt-undocumented-student-denounces-free-speech-on-immigration-policy/#comment-1639898

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  181. Anon says: • Disclaimer
    @Wizard of Oz
    Are you disagreeing with Yoyo or have you perhas missed his/her point? ("mean IQ")

    Are you disagreeing with Yoyo or have you perhas missed his/her point? (“mean IQ”)

    I’m pointing out that creating hypothetical exceptions does not undermine a scientifically verified Bell Curve. Apparently, it cannot be pointed out enough.

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    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
    Agreed, but I don't think Yoyo was so much pointing to hypothetical exceptions as pointing to different circumstances in which the (perhaps few) people with high IQs could create the trappings of high material civilisation. People often talk of the Bell Curve as if there is only one. But it often makes sense to think of several, even if thete are fuzzy overlaps. Thus one for Brahmins in India perhaps, one for Dalits and many more. Indeed Dravidian Brahmins and Indo-Aryan northerners could well need two - or more. In the US African-Americans, Ashkenazim etc. but more recently class stratification as well amongst those with and without several generations at top universities.
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  182. @Rich
    You're a sarcastic fellow, aren't you? Why are you so hot and bothered about other people not believing in Ashkenazi superiority? You guys are really hung up on believing you're smarter than everyone else, aren't you? Do you really think I don't know that prizes for Peace and Literature aren't the same as those awarded for Science? My point is that if members of the Nobel Peace Prize committee can make such an obviously bad choice, the committee that chooses their science award recipients is also suspect. That might be beyond your "genius IQ' to comprehend, but it's pretty obvious.
    I would suggest that you are some kind of an Ashkenazi supremacist who tries to make himself feel superior to others because someone somewhere who may share a bit of ethnic and religious history with you was successful, you feel successful.
    Produce for me the IQ tests that show your group as having the highest IQ. Show me how the participants in the test were chosen, how tightly the test was supervised and evidence the test wasn't tampered with. The most reliable tests we have regarding Jewish intelligence come from the Israeli military which shows the average IQ of Israelis to be in the mid 90 range. Where is the IQ test that you're using to base your assumption of higher IQs for the Ashkenazi subset of Jews? I've searched the web and can't find any evidence of a test showing this.

    A glance is all I can bear. I am used to some minimum of logic and precision in arguments and irritated by baseless false assumptions.
    (a) I have no known Jewish ancestors so you are letting your muddled brain make things up.
    (b) the words I use do not include “superiority” but do refer to the mathematical and verbal cognitive abilities which are obviously critical to many of the admired Jewish successes in the post Enlightenment West into which they were emancipated after about 1760;
    (c) your reference to the Israeli military’s testing is just dopey especially combined with your inability to do something as elementary as Googling for “what is the best estimate of Ashkenazi Jewish IQ” which will give you a very informative reading list led off by something from Greg Cochran who sometimes contributes comments on UR and is perhaps the leading expert on the subject as you would know if you read Nicholas Wade’s NYT review of the work he did with Henry Harpending and anor. about 10 years ago. Did you not understand the point about Ashkenazim and Mizrahi Jews?
    (d) your defence of your silly point about a couple of prizes with the name Nobel attached being given to people you think aren’t wonderful get even more bizarre. (Stop digging). You say you are aware of the prizes for Peace and Literature not being the same as those for sciences then immediately disclose your great ignorance, laziness and ignorance that you are ignorant. Your reasoning is that if the Peace Prize committee can make such an obviously bad choice** then “the [sic] committee which chooses their [sic] science award recipients is also suspect”. What is your defence at this stage of the discussion against your ignorance of the fact that the Peace Prize is awarded by a Norwegian organisation and the science prizes by a Swedish organisation – not the same organisation as your word “their” implies? Indeed (fom memory: I don’t need precise accuracy to make the point) physics and chemistry prizes are awarded by the Royal Swedish Academy of Sciences, the literature prize by the Swedish Academy and the Medicine and Physiology Prize – another science prize – by the Karolinska Institute.

    So your point comes down to something like saying that a couple of charlatans have been elected to the Royal Society and the (US) National Academy of Sciences over a century and more so we shouldn’t regard election to those bodies as any evidence for the superior intellects of most of their members. And of course George W. Bush got into Yale so there’s no great evidence of intellectual promise in getting into the Ivy League (and don’t think Ron Unz’s demonstration that the Ivies are not as meritocratic as Caltech even touches the sides of your misconceived argument).

    **as to the Peace Prize specifically I would interpret its conferring as closer to propaganda than objective judgment, or perhaps as a way of helping a process keep up momentum. Hardly relevant FWIW to IQ at all either in the committee members or the recipients or to judgments on scientific achievement.

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    • Replies: @Rich
    You still haven't provided details of any test given that shows your favorite ethnic group's IQ superiority. I've done a little research and can't find where, when, or who gave this IQ test that supposedly proves the Ashkenazi have the highest IQs. I understand, and I think everyone else who's reading your responses understands, why you're clinging to my comparison of different Nobel awards, but it's not working. All you have to do is provide the details of the IQ exam that you're basing all your assumptions on. That's it. If your info proves to be accurate, I'll give you kudos.
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  183. @Rod1963
    And all those high IQ white countries are dying, basically committing suicide on scale not seen since early Imperial Rome. The only ones that are holding on are those states composed of lower IQ types, namely Poles, Russians and Hungarians.

    IQ isn't the end all. Here in the U.S. you have the Silicon Valley elite (really smart white nerds) that have embraced every toxic liberal meme in existence including demographic obliteration. Same with the whites on Wall Street embracing the same toxic crap. Tell me again where brains fits in with embracing idiocy that any white working stiff would know better. It's aptly demonstrated with college educated whites and white professionals that voted for Hillary whose agenda was no different than Merkel's.

    Same in Europe. Mass insanity among the intellectuals.

    IQ isn't enough to keep the system going, especially in the West.

    Problem is the cognitive elites of the West jettisoned the one thing that kept everything together - culture and replaced it with post-modernism and it's derivatives that only offer unrestrained egomania and the cold death.

    Poles, Russians and Hungarians are all high IQ. The only Europeans scoring much below 100 are in the Balkans, countries that suffered badly under the Ottomans.

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  184. Article just seems to say that intelligence is real but IQ is an imperfect measurement, and doesn’t really allow for African-American vs Venezuelan comparison because A-A IQ develops in an environment dominated by a higher IQ white population, so it reflects a largely environment-equalised genoptypic IQ disparity, whereas Venezuelan IQ will reflect development in a slightly lower IQ environment, ie there’s a sort of double counting. Likewise African IQ in Africa scoring much lower than A-A IQ.

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  185. Che Guava says:

    I am very surprised and disappointed that AuthenticJazzMan, Mensa member for blah, blah, blah, hasn’t weighed in on this thread.

    It would be a natural topic, and the response likely very entertaining!

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  186. Che Guava says:
    @FKA Max
    Thank you very much for your insider's perspective!

    I actually partially agree with Mr. Reed's criticism of the ``race realist'' community. They have an extreme blind spot or an extreme fetish when it comes to Northeast Asians' and Ashkenazi Jews' high IQ/SAT test scores and rarely seem to take into account other genetic factors like the MAOA gene and its different allele expressions among the different races; which is more, or at least as equally as important to do, IMO: http://www.unz.com/freed/iq-a-skeptics-view/#comment-1725649

    They are also obsessed with Black/common crime and seem to mostly ignore high white-collar crime rates among Ashkenazi Jews, Asians, etc.:

    It is impossible to suppose that East Asians commit less crime than Whites given the extent of bribery and “kick-backs” in Asian society, which is a way of life. Tax evasion and the use of a cash economy is also a matter of fact. None of this is considered by Rushton.[...]
    I am always flabbergasted by the assertion of many prominent ”race realists” that Asians/Northeast Asians have the lowest crime rates, low (violent) common crime rates that is, but they completely ignore, or are oblivious to Asian/Northeast Asian (non-violent) white-collar crime. [...]
    White-collar crime has been defined recently as the use of a significant position of power for illegal gain that results in damage or harm to victims as measured by financial loss, physical harm, and damage to the community’s moral climate. Most experts agree that the economic impact of white-collar crime is far more costly than ordinary crime.
     
    - http://www.unz.com/isteve/sat-scandal/#comment-1544526

    On the Asian rise: I live in California. It is impossible to understand what people like me mean by “Asian test prep” unless you live in one of the areas where it exists. So unless you see “SAT academies” on every street corner, sometimes 3 to a building, and realize that each of those business is selling a minimum of 50-70 hours of test prep per kid, it might be difficult to understand. Kaplan has largely disappeared in my neck of the woods. Whites in my area are doing far, far less test prep. I don’t know why specifically, but I suspect that many of them have realized that grades determine so much of UC admissions that there’s no point in paying for a higher test score. A 2400 SAT scorer with a 3.8 GPA has zero chance at Berkeley, UCLA, and UCSD.

    You’ve mentioned that the SAT has no ability to predict IQs over 130. This is consistent with my observations (anecdotal though they are) and it also suggests, I think, that it would be possible for the Asians to achieve overrepresentation through test prep. This does not have to mean that Asians would be schlubs without test prep, of course.
     
    - http://www.unz.com/isteve/he-who-controls-test-prep-controls-the-future/#comment-1512545

    Some more reading here, that might be of interest to you: http://www.unz.com/announcement/expanding-our-science-and-history-coverage/#comment-1692309

    Lynn is skeptical about environmental explanations of this
    difference. He says "Environmental explanations for the high Jewish [verbal] IQ are difficult to
    find. Even if it is supposed that Jews provide their children with a good environment for fostering the intelligence of their children, there is a problem for providing an explanation for why they do this". [18] There are no shortages of environmental explanations of the high Jewish IQ, including Jewish urbanization and professional aggressiveness, a culture valuing learning and language (especially learning other languages which improves language cognitive abilities), and a culture fostering success. [19] Lynn's statement is absurd because it is obvious why Jewish parents provide a good environment for fostering their children's intelligence - and that is for success. [20]
     

    You are making many good points, I am glad that you appreciated my accurate comments.

    Of course, there are lotteries, too, and I know that some of the very wealthy make trips to Macao etc. for giant-stakes games, but it is not the same as mainland east Asia, many people wreck their finances over pachinko, but not much else.

    I wanted to reply to other specific points you make in your reply, but this site’s policy (good, I think) of showing the thread in strict time order makes it difficult, will replying to the couple where I have relevant replies tomorrow or Wed. night.

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  187. Rich says:
    @Wizard of Oz
    A glance is all I can bear. I am used to some minimum of logic and precision in arguments and irritated by baseless false assumptions.
    (a) I have no known Jewish ancestors so you are letting your muddled brain make things up.
    (b) the words I use do not include "superiority" but do refer to the mathematical and verbal cognitive abilities which are obviously critical to many of the admired Jewish successes in the post Enlightenment West into which they were emancipated after about 1760;
    (c) your reference to the Israeli military's testing is just dopey especially combined with your inability to do something as elementary as Googling for "what is the best estimate of Ashkenazi Jewish IQ" which will give you a very informative reading list led off by something from Greg Cochran who sometimes contributes comments on UR and is perhaps the leading expert on the subject as you would know if you read Nicholas Wade's NYT review of the work he did with Henry Harpending and anor. about 10 years ago. Did you not understand the point about Ashkenazim and Mizrahi Jews?
    (d) your defence of your silly point about a couple of prizes with the name Nobel attached being given to people you think aren't wonderful get even more bizarre. (Stop digging). You say you are aware of the prizes for Peace and Literature not being the same as those for sciences then immediately disclose your great ignorance, laziness and ignorance that you are ignorant. Your reasoning is that if the Peace Prize committee can make such an obviously bad choice** then "the [sic] committee which chooses their [sic] science award recipients is also suspect". What is your defence at this stage of the discussion against your ignorance of the fact that the Peace Prize is awarded by a Norwegian organisation and the science prizes by a Swedish organisation - not the same organisation as your word "their" implies? Indeed (fom memory: I don't need precise accuracy to make the point) physics and chemistry prizes are awarded by the Royal Swedish Academy of Sciences, the literature prize by the Swedish Academy and the Medicine and Physiology Prize - another science prize - by the Karolinska Institute.

    So your point comes down to something like saying that a couple of charlatans have been elected to the Royal Society and the (US) National Academy of Sciences over a century and more so we shouldn't regard election to those bodies as any evidence for the superior intellects of most of their members. And of course George W. Bush got into Yale so there's no great evidence of intellectual promise in getting into the Ivy League (and don't think Ron Unz's demonstration that the Ivies are not as meritocratic as Caltech even touches the sides of your misconceived argument).

    **as to the Peace Prize specifically I would interpret its conferring as closer to propaganda than objective judgment, or perhaps as a way of helping a process keep up momentum. Hardly relevant FWIW to IQ at all either in the committee members or the recipients or to judgments on scientific achievement.

    You still haven’t provided details of any test given that shows your favorite ethnic group’s IQ superiority. I’ve done a little research and can’t find where, when, or who gave this IQ test that supposedly proves the Ashkenazi have the highest IQs. I understand, and I think everyone else who’s reading your responses understands, why you’re clinging to my comparison of different Nobel awards, but it’s not working. All you have to do is provide the details of the IQ exam that you’re basing all your assumptions on. That’s it. If your info proves to be accurate, I’ll give you kudos.

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    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
    I'm not going to do your homework for you. I haven't been personally involved in investigating test results for perhaps 14 or 15 years when I noted that the previously quoted figure of 115 for average Ashkenazi IQ Was said by some to be more like 110-112 and the Flynn Effect beganto be more widely noticed. I had already had an argument with Greg Cochran over the nature of the selective process up to about 1650. Tbc
    , @utu
    Basically you are saying that high IQ of A-Jews is a hoax, right? You might be right. Talking about high IQ is preferable instead of talking of ethnic networking, ethnic collusion, ethnic nepotism.
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  188. @Anon

    Are you disagreeing with Yoyo or have you perhas missed his/her point? (“mean IQ”)
     
    I'm pointing out that creating hypothetical exceptions does not undermine a scientifically verified Bell Curve. Apparently, it cannot be pointed out enough.

    Agreed, but I don’t think Yoyo was so much pointing to hypothetical exceptions as pointing to different circumstances in which the (perhaps few) people with high IQs could create the trappings of high material civilisation. People often talk of the Bell Curve as if there is only one. But it often makes sense to think of several, even if thete are fuzzy overlaps. Thus one for Brahmins in India perhaps, one for Dalits and many more. Indeed Dravidian Brahmins and Indo-Aryan northerners could well need two – or more. In the US African-Americans, Ashkenazim etc. but more recently class stratification as well amongst those with and without several generations at top universities.

    Read More
    • Replies: @utu
    "People often talk of the Bell Curve as if there is only one. But it often makes sense to think of several, even if thete are fuzzy overlaps. Thus one for Brahmins in India perhaps, one for Dalits and many more. "

    A sum of two normal random variables is not normal. So if the Bell Curve of the sum is Gaussian, the Bell Curves of the components cannot be Gaussian and vice versa.
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  189. @Rich
    You still haven't provided details of any test given that shows your favorite ethnic group's IQ superiority. I've done a little research and can't find where, when, or who gave this IQ test that supposedly proves the Ashkenazi have the highest IQs. I understand, and I think everyone else who's reading your responses understands, why you're clinging to my comparison of different Nobel awards, but it's not working. All you have to do is provide the details of the IQ exam that you're basing all your assumptions on. That's it. If your info proves to be accurate, I'll give you kudos.

    I’m not going to do your homework for you. I haven’t been personally involved in investigating test results for perhaps 14 or 15 years when I noted that the previously quoted figure of 115 for average Ashkenazi IQ Was said by some to be more like 110-112 and the Flynn Effect beganto be more widely noticed. I had already had an argument with Greg Cochran over the nature of the selective process up to about 1650. Tbc

    Read More
    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
    Cont.

    His emphasis was on the rabbi's children marrying the successful businessman's children operating on the right tail of the Bell Curve whereas I posited that dim Jewish males didn't have much mating success within the Jewish community and calculated that you could move an average IQ of 100 to 115 in 500 years if you eliminated all under 75 (I think) IQ matings. The Parsees and English uper middle classes till about 1880 were other good examples of selective breeding for something that correlated with high IQ scores so it wasn't surprising....tbc

    , @Rich
    Oh, so there is no actual test that shows this huge IQ disparity. It's just a feeling you have. That's how I had it figured. I wasted a bit of time looking for evidence of high Ashkenazi IQ test results, and found none. Thanks for confirming my results.
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  190. @Wizard of Oz
    I'm not going to do your homework for you. I haven't been personally involved in investigating test results for perhaps 14 or 15 years when I noted that the previously quoted figure of 115 for average Ashkenazi IQ Was said by some to be more like 110-112 and the Flynn Effect beganto be more widely noticed. I had already had an argument with Greg Cochran over the nature of the selective process up to about 1650. Tbc

    Cont.

    His emphasis was on the rabbi’s children marrying the successful businessman’s children operating on the right tail of the Bell Curve whereas I posited that dim Jewish males didn’t have much mating success within the Jewish community and calculated that you could move an average IQ of 100 to 115 in 500 years if you eliminated all under 75 (I think) IQ matings. The Parsees and English uper middle classes till about 1880 were other good examples of selective breeding for something that correlated with high IQ scores so it wasn’t surprising….tbc

    Read More
    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
    Further Cont.

    I have just lost a lot of my recording of calculations I made 10 -15 years or more ago without bothering to go over old stuff and was going to suggest you write to Steve Sailer or La Griffe du Lion (pseudonym used on Steve's H-BD list and on his website --il_leone_uno@yahoo.com - because each might have just the reading list you need ready to hand. But now I have found
    http://www.lagriffedulion.f2s.com/ashkenaz.htm

    and that should keep you busy and leave you better informed.
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  191. @Wizard of Oz
    Cont.

    His emphasis was on the rabbi's children marrying the successful businessman's children operating on the right tail of the Bell Curve whereas I posited that dim Jewish males didn't have much mating success within the Jewish community and calculated that you could move an average IQ of 100 to 115 in 500 years if you eliminated all under 75 (I think) IQ matings. The Parsees and English uper middle classes till about 1880 were other good examples of selective breeding for something that correlated with high IQ scores so it wasn't surprising....tbc

    Further Cont.

    I have just lost a lot of my recording of calculations I made 10 -15 years or more ago without bothering to go over old stuff and was going to suggest you write to Steve Sailer or La Griffe du Lion (pseudonym used on Steve’s H-BD list and on his website –il_leone_uno@yahoo.com – because each might have just the reading list you need ready to hand. But now I have found

    http://www.lagriffedulion.f2s.com/ashkenaz.htm

    and that should keep you busy and leave you better informed.

    Read More
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  192. res says:
    @FKA Max
    Thank you very much for your insider's perspective!

    I actually partially agree with Mr. Reed's criticism of the ``race realist'' community. They have an extreme blind spot or an extreme fetish when it comes to Northeast Asians' and Ashkenazi Jews' high IQ/SAT test scores and rarely seem to take into account other genetic factors like the MAOA gene and its different allele expressions among the different races; which is more, or at least as equally as important to do, IMO: http://www.unz.com/freed/iq-a-skeptics-view/#comment-1725649

    They are also obsessed with Black/common crime and seem to mostly ignore high white-collar crime rates among Ashkenazi Jews, Asians, etc.:

    It is impossible to suppose that East Asians commit less crime than Whites given the extent of bribery and “kick-backs” in Asian society, which is a way of life. Tax evasion and the use of a cash economy is also a matter of fact. None of this is considered by Rushton.[...]
    I am always flabbergasted by the assertion of many prominent ”race realists” that Asians/Northeast Asians have the lowest crime rates, low (violent) common crime rates that is, but they completely ignore, or are oblivious to Asian/Northeast Asian (non-violent) white-collar crime. [...]
    White-collar crime has been defined recently as the use of a significant position of power for illegal gain that results in damage or harm to victims as measured by financial loss, physical harm, and damage to the community’s moral climate. Most experts agree that the economic impact of white-collar crime is far more costly than ordinary crime.
     
    - http://www.unz.com/isteve/sat-scandal/#comment-1544526

    On the Asian rise: I live in California. It is impossible to understand what people like me mean by “Asian test prep” unless you live in one of the areas where it exists. So unless you see “SAT academies” on every street corner, sometimes 3 to a building, and realize that each of those business is selling a minimum of 50-70 hours of test prep per kid, it might be difficult to understand. Kaplan has largely disappeared in my neck of the woods. Whites in my area are doing far, far less test prep. I don’t know why specifically, but I suspect that many of them have realized that grades determine so much of UC admissions that there’s no point in paying for a higher test score. A 2400 SAT scorer with a 3.8 GPA has zero chance at Berkeley, UCLA, and UCSD.

    You’ve mentioned that the SAT has no ability to predict IQs over 130. This is consistent with my observations (anecdotal though they are) and it also suggests, I think, that it would be possible for the Asians to achieve overrepresentation through test prep. This does not have to mean that Asians would be schlubs without test prep, of course.
     
    - http://www.unz.com/isteve/he-who-controls-test-prep-controls-the-future/#comment-1512545

    Some more reading here, that might be of interest to you: http://www.unz.com/announcement/expanding-our-science-and-history-coverage/#comment-1692309

    Lynn is skeptical about environmental explanations of this
    difference. He says "Environmental explanations for the high Jewish [verbal] IQ are difficult to
    find. Even if it is supposed that Jews provide their children with a good environment for fostering the intelligence of their children, there is a problem for providing an explanation for why they do this". [18] There are no shortages of environmental explanations of the high Jewish IQ, including Jewish urbanization and professional aggressiveness, a culture valuing learning and language (especially learning other languages which improves language cognitive abilities), and a culture fostering success. [19] Lynn's statement is absurd because it is obvious why Jewish parents provide a good environment for fostering their children's intelligence - and that is for success. [20]
     

    They are also obsessed with Black/common crime and seem to mostly ignore high white-collar crime rates among Ashkenazi Jews, Asians, etc.:

    It’s amazing how persistent this canard is. I guess that is what happens when something can be used to support the Narrative.

    Crime statistics by race are available at: https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2015/crime-in-the-u.s.-2015/tables/table-43

    I consider Forgery and counterfeiting, Fraud, and Embezzlement to be the white collar crimes in that table. If you look at the data you will see that for those crimes whites are represented at about their proportion of the population, blacks appear at about 2.5x their proportion of the population (more than for all crimes!), and the other groups represent a very small proportion.

    So contrary to your assertion, blacks are also overrepresented per capita as white collar criminals.

    Read More
    • Replies: @FKA Max
    There are different categories of white-collar crime. I am pretty certain Blacks commit mostly lower and medium category white-collar crimes, whereas Jews and other high(er)-IQ white-collar criminals commit most of the high category white-collar crimes, which are the crimes, that are the most costly to society, in financial terms. The quality/size of the white-collar crime measured in financial damage caused by the crime is very important to take into account. Just focusing on the quantity of white-collar crimes committed by certain ethnic groups while leaving out their size/quality can be misleading/obfuscating, in my opinion, e.g., the``street con'' versus the ``Big Store con'':

    In 2014, a rural co-operative in Nanjing, China constructed an entire brick-and-mortar fake bank with uniformed clerks behind counters; the unlicensed bank operated for a little over a year, then defaulted on its obligations, swindling Chinese savers out of 200 million Chinese yuan.[50]
     
    - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_confidence_tricks#Big_Store


    While Stanton’s statistics are enlightening in themselves, a more detailed picture emerges in David Weisburd’s Yale-published Crimes of the Middle Classes: White-Collar Offenders in the Federal Courts (1991). Here Weisburd informs us that although Jews comprise only around 2% of the United States population, they contribute at least 9% of lower category white-collar crimes (bank embezzlement, tax fraud and bank fraud), at least 15% of moderate category white-collar crimes (mail fraud, false claims, and bribery), and at least 33% of high category white-collar crimes (antitrust and securities fraud).
     
    - http://www.theoccidentalobserver.net/2016/05/philip-green-jewish-criminality-and-the-cost-of-economic-parasitism/#_ftnref2

    Spring 2012 White Collar Crime and the United States' Economy Megan Graham University of New Hampshire - Main Campus

    White collar crime has such a high financial impact on business and society that it becomes far more widespread. When a company shuts down due to a criminal act, there are jobs lost at all levels, as well as investors who lose money, upset consumers, and years’ worth of litigation involved. The sheer impact of scandals such as AIG and Lehman Brothers is a great example. Almost everyone knew someone was affected by these corporate failings. [...] Blue collar crime is expensive, costing roughly $14 billion every year (Veen). This seems like a
    lot of money, and until it is put into perspective with the cost of white collar crime, it seems as
    though the main focus of policing efforts should go towards blue collar crimes. Unfortunately, white collar crime costs roughly 14 times the amount blue collar crime does, or about 200 billion each year (Veen). Most people are unaware of this cost, and just choose to focus on blue collar crime.
     
    - http://scholars.unh.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1048&context=honors

    Introduction: White-Collar and Corporate Crime in Asia

    In the case of Japan, criminological interest traditionally has been focused on the country’s much-heralded low crime rate. Given that the depth of the problem of white-collar crime goes far deeper than adjudicated cases, Japan’s remarkably low rate of common crime is likely eclipsed by the level of white-collar and corporate crime. Numerous cases abound of egregious wrongdoing by banks, corporations, and politicians at the highest levels of government. [...] Johnson (2003) notes some of Japan’s “intractable problems,” including trillions of dollars in unrecoverable bank loans, nuclear accidents and cover-up, and structural corruption. He points out that compared to the U.S., laws directed against the wrongdoing of powerful people and organizations are weaker in Japan. “In the words of Jonathan Swift, this disparity means that Japanese law is like a cobweb, catching small flies but letting wasps and hornets break through” (Johnson 2003:778).
     
    - http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11417-010-9093-4
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  193. utu says:
    @Wizard of Oz
    Agreed, but I don't think Yoyo was so much pointing to hypothetical exceptions as pointing to different circumstances in which the (perhaps few) people with high IQs could create the trappings of high material civilisation. People often talk of the Bell Curve as if there is only one. But it often makes sense to think of several, even if thete are fuzzy overlaps. Thus one for Brahmins in India perhaps, one for Dalits and many more. Indeed Dravidian Brahmins and Indo-Aryan northerners could well need two - or more. In the US African-Americans, Ashkenazim etc. but more recently class stratification as well amongst those with and without several generations at top universities.

    “People often talk of the Bell Curve as if there is only one. But it often makes sense to think of several, even if thete are fuzzy overlaps. Thus one for Brahmins in India perhaps, one for Dalits and many more. ”

    A sum of two normal random variables is not normal. So if the Bell Curve of the sum is Gaussian, the Bell Curves of the components cannot be Gaussian and vice versa.

    Read More
    • Replies: @res

    A sum of two normal random variables is not normal. So if the Bell Curve of the sum is Gaussian, the Bell Curves of the components cannot be Gaussian and vice versa.
     
    Right. But we are not talking about an ideal theoretical curve, rather noisy IQ data for what are best viewed as multiple groups.

    As long as the means and SDs are fairly close or the minority groups are fairly small the result should stay close to Gaussian. In the real situation where the means can vary by an SD or more between groups and the minority populations are significant the result is more complicated. There is much talk about the IQ distribution being fat tailed (relative to the Gaussian distribution), but it is unclear to me if:
    1. This is false
    2. If true is it an artifact of multiple smaller groups on either side of the majority averaging near 100.
    3. The IQ distribution for a given group really is fat tailed.
    , @Wizard of Oz
    As I have said in my reply to res I don't think you are disagreeing with me. But???
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  194. utu says:
    @Rich
    You still haven't provided details of any test given that shows your favorite ethnic group's IQ superiority. I've done a little research and can't find where, when, or who gave this IQ test that supposedly proves the Ashkenazi have the highest IQs. I understand, and I think everyone else who's reading your responses understands, why you're clinging to my comparison of different Nobel awards, but it's not working. All you have to do is provide the details of the IQ exam that you're basing all your assumptions on. That's it. If your info proves to be accurate, I'll give you kudos.

    Basically you are saying that high IQ of A-Jews is a hoax, right? You might be right. Talking about high IQ is preferable instead of talking of ethnic networking, ethnic collusion, ethnic nepotism.

    Read More
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  195. dropingin says:

    Discreet details from “scientific” studies and concocted theories tend to loose sight of the greater truth.

    This whole IQ argument is being used as a manufactured justification for one race or “group” to feel vindicated for exploiting the hell out of and stealing from other human beings. The IQ arguments are all about separation (discrimination) for the sake of institutionalizing the fantasy and lie that various individual’s possess inherent overall “superiority” over others. Societies that are not stuck in the individual’s rights (and the rights of their possessions) reigning supreme recognize that for Human’s to actually keep progressing it is an entire group endeavor and all accomplishments of anyone are only made possible by the integrity and presence of the entire group. The collective consciousness is not a myth. In addition, We all stand on the shoulders of those who came before and none of what we do do would be possible without those antecedents.

    It is too much to expect that “supremacists” of every ilk will acknowledge:

    A species is not about the individuals of which it is made up (or their individual accomplishments or thoughts/ideas),
    AND
    Biology is only an element of what makes Humans Human.

    Read More
    • Replies: @res

    It is too much to expect that “supremacists” of every ilk will acknowledge:
     
    So if I acknowledge that East Asians have higher average IQs than Whites does that make me an "inferiorcist"?
    , @MarkinLA
    This whole IQ argument is being used as a manufactured justification for one race or “group” to feel vindicated for exploiting the hell out of and stealing from other human beings.

    To some yes. To others it is for the purpose of getting the government to stop this useless nonsense of trying to put square pegs in round holes.
    , @Wizard of Oz
    Isn't it largely a reaction to the humbug aspects of affirmative action?

    After all that encompasses the myth (if it is) that African-Americans only need lots of solicitous help for a generation or two to be able to cope withthe cognitive demands of the modern world as well as any other group, the unjustified discrimination against whites that AA can involve, and the cost of ineffective programs to the taxpayer.

    What authors and wtitings do you accuse of justifying your interpretation?
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  196. res says:
    @utu
    "People often talk of the Bell Curve as if there is only one. But it often makes sense to think of several, even if thete are fuzzy overlaps. Thus one for Brahmins in India perhaps, one for Dalits and many more. "

    A sum of two normal random variables is not normal. So if the Bell Curve of the sum is Gaussian, the Bell Curves of the components cannot be Gaussian and vice versa.

    A sum of two normal random variables is not normal. So if the Bell Curve of the sum is Gaussian, the Bell Curves of the components cannot be Gaussian and vice versa.

    Right. But we are not talking about an ideal theoretical curve, rather noisy IQ data for what are best viewed as multiple groups.

    As long as the means and SDs are fairly close or the minority groups are fairly small the result should stay close to Gaussian. In the real situation where the means can vary by an SD or more between groups and the minority populations are significant the result is more complicated. There is much talk about the IQ distribution being fat tailed (relative to the Gaussian distribution), but it is unclear to me if:
    1. This is false
    2. If true is it an artifact of multiple smaller groups on either side of the majority averaging near 100.
    3. The IQ distribution for a given group really is fat tailed.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
    Thanks. I don't think he was disagreeing with me but you anyway put the situation clearly. I think your answer 2. re fat tails is probably the best one at least for the right tails because left tails might all be similarly affected by congenital and other defects which are not just minor genetically caused deficiencies on a continuum. However 3. could be the answer if you want to define your "given group" so it doesn't recognise generations of caste or class difference or treats all Israelis (e.g.) as one group. Now we should probably define the Ivy League Assortative Mating League as a separately defined group which doesn't itself have fat tails...
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  197. res says:
    @dropingin
    Discreet details from "scientific" studies and concocted theories tend to loose sight of the greater truth.

    This whole IQ argument is being used as a manufactured justification for one race or "group" to feel vindicated for exploiting the hell out of and stealing from other human beings. The IQ arguments are all about separation (discrimination) for the sake of institutionalizing the fantasy and lie that various individual's possess inherent overall "superiority" over others. Societies that are not stuck in the individual's rights (and the rights of their possessions) reigning supreme recognize that for Human's to actually keep progressing it is an entire group endeavor and all accomplishments of anyone are only made possible by the integrity and presence of the entire group. The collective consciousness is not a myth. In addition, We all stand on the shoulders of those who came before and none of what we do do would be possible without those antecedents.

    It is too much to expect that "supremacists" of every ilk will acknowledge:

    A species is not about the individuals of which it is made up (or their individual accomplishments or thoughts/ideas),
    AND
    Biology is only an element of what makes Humans Human.

    It is too much to expect that “supremacists” of every ilk will acknowledge:

    So if I acknowledge that East Asians have higher average IQs than Whites does that make me an “inferiorcist”?

    Read More
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  198. Rich says:
    @Wizard of Oz
    I'm not going to do your homework for you. I haven't been personally involved in investigating test results for perhaps 14 or 15 years when I noted that the previously quoted figure of 115 for average Ashkenazi IQ Was said by some to be more like 110-112 and the Flynn Effect beganto be more widely noticed. I had already had an argument with Greg Cochran over the nature of the selective process up to about 1650. Tbc

    Oh, so there is no actual test that shows this huge IQ disparity. It’s just a feeling you have. That’s how I had it figured. I wasted a bit of time looking for evidence of high Ashkenazi IQ test results, and found none. Thanks for confirming my results.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
    Your reply has the truly pathetic air of the behaviour of the dim child of ambitious parents who wants to say something rather than just give up arguing with the class swat and you can't even stop yourself spouting your ya-boo stand in for a response before taking notice of two succeasive Tbc replies which would have led you to La Griffe du Lion's work that I linked. But for your information EVERY professionally designed IQ test, plus SATs and alternatives, shows the big disparity between Adhkenazic IQs and those of almost any defined group you can think of.
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  199. edNels says:
    @joe webb
    about 5 years ago at an anti-immigrant demo in Petaluma CA ( slightly north of SF Bay Area and close to grape growers and some other agriculture and Santa Rosa, a used to be cow-town but now a wonderfully diverse city with many gangs, mexico of course....I had deployed my Uncle Sam act with a sign about borders, and so on.

    A big and tall guy strides up to me with a cowboy hat and says, "I'm a Mexican!" without a smile on his face. I said, "no you're not, you got blue eyes, are tall and you are a Spaniard. " He laughed and said, "we are shipping all our shit people up to you."

    Mexico is approximately 9 per cent Spaniard, who have been keeping their blood relatively pure for a long time, after having miscegenated a while back of course. The Portuguese and the Spaniards came without women and the English did come with their women. The difference is a century or two and Protestantism vs. Catholicism.

    About 60% in Mexico are mestizos, and 30 % are injuns, with an average IQ, per Lynn, of about 83. Put an injun and a Spaniard together and you get an IQ of about 90. Now, I dunno about the Spanish these days. Spain's IQ is 97 per Lynn, and Portugal's is 95, as I recall (Portugal was the only European country to bring in African slaves...I have read...true?)

    My only brief sojourn in Spain was going over the border from the Dordoggne (?) in France to see Gaudi's architecture in Barcelona. It was very hot. I had two nights and 3 days there, and got nicked or attempted nicking , as in petty theft, 5 times. Never anywhere else in Europe. (Gaudi's art is worth seeing but not worth a special trip...stick to the picture books.)

    So, Europe's southern blood probably leaves something to be desired, given the Arab and Turk mixtures over the centuries. Thank god the Germans rescued Europe after the fall of Rome, by invading it. The beauty of some Spanish ladies , however, is probably due in part to Arab blood.
    The typical aryan woman has long legs but a face that is somewhat mannish. I prefer brunettes but with legs...you can't have everything.

    So, Fred on Nothing spreads his verbiage around about how great mexicans are. My local mid-peninsula (south of San Francisco) jail in Redwood City, has just added another jail to handle the mexican diversity. Go into the Hall of Justice, and the courtroom floors are about 90 % peopled with mexicans. I assume that the remaining ten percent are about half white lawyers.

    Race Traitors are real, plentiful, and like many jews, their mouths never shut up.
    Joe Webb

    I know what your talkin’ about, the only folks that have enough self preservation visa race are the Jews Japs and chinamen. (and who ever I left out, aint’ too important.

    So since most of the americans and europeans are Christians, they already are worshiping a Jew. Probably don’t think of it like that, because Jesus got crucified, but it was in the holy land, and he was a jew, so it is said. Until I see otherwise, he was. He must have been a higher than normal IQ type, maybe even a psychic or shaman.

    So, since the organized religions of Christianity have mainly been totally cooped into Mammon, gots to realize that, and figure another strategy. OK, go find a reasonably acceptable Jewis, not too ethnic looking,there are many, and convert to the Jew religion. THen you are protected, and you can be a jew for christ at home in your basement if that helps, and go to temple and all that stuff.

    I doubt there would be much success to conversion with out the marriage angle, people would be against it, and they have endless road blocks to conversion, as I was told.

    But when you know there is organized miscegenation well advanced even through Scandinavia to break up the blond critical mass center, (Barbara Spector tells it out loud).

    Europe is being taken care of under full view. Russia is well mixed, but has some nordic components that bug some runty little squirts, that’s pretty plain.

    I don’t know where you could find a better spot to go forth and multiply successfully than to be a jew, they’re the only ones who have any protected status today.

    Why are you so down on Mexican indigenous, many of them were the ancestors of the American indians, who were chased away. America was a beautiful place before the
    Spanish came and murdered and enslaved pillaged. Spanish, half Moor blood of course!

    Something for everybody

    Read More
    • Replies: @joe webb
    well Ednels, as for the amerindians, at 83 IQ per Lynn, they are still savages. jewyorktimes reported about a year ago that the rez violence rate was 20 times higher than the national average, which of course is upped by the Blacks.

    If you look at mestizo and injun numbers in "Latin America" the violence, never mind economic condition, of various countries is heavily linked to the aforesaid folks. Honduras is the murder capital of the world, and Honduras also has a lot of black blood.

    I hate to use movies...but Gibson's Apocolypto is a good guide to amerindian savagery. They refused Christ, went back to the jungle, and here we are.

    Look at Venezuela now, with the madcap capers of Castro lovin' Hugo and Co. Stupid and violent. That is what they are. possibly worse than Blacks.

    the old 'sustain' argument about third world peoples, even smart ones like northern Asia, that they cannot sustain a White type democratic governance, elections, free speech, etc. is totally true. Chaos only in the black and brown world, and in the yellow world, regimentation and despotism.

    Joe Webb
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  200. FKA Max says:
    @res

    They are also obsessed with Black/common crime and seem to mostly ignore high white-collar crime rates among Ashkenazi Jews, Asians, etc.:
     
    It's amazing how persistent this canard is. I guess that is what happens when something can be used to support the Narrative.

    Crime statistics by race are available at: https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2015/crime-in-the-u.s.-2015/tables/table-43

    I consider Forgery and counterfeiting, Fraud, and Embezzlement to be the white collar crimes in that table. If you look at the data you will see that for those crimes whites are represented at about their proportion of the population, blacks appear at about 2.5x their proportion of the population (more than for all crimes!), and the other groups represent a very small proportion.

    So contrary to your assertion, blacks are also overrepresented per capita as white collar criminals.

    There are different categories of white-collar crime. I am pretty certain Blacks commit mostly lower and medium category white-collar crimes, whereas Jews and other high(er)-IQ white-collar criminals commit most of the high category white-collar crimes, which are the crimes, that are the most costly to society, in financial terms. The quality/size of the white-collar crime measured in financial damage caused by the crime is very important to take into account. Just focusing on the quantity of white-collar crimes committed by certain ethnic groups while leaving out their size/quality can be misleading/obfuscating, in my opinion, e.g., the“street con” versus the “Big Store con”:

    In 2014, a rural co-operative in Nanjing, China constructed an entire brick-and-mortar fake bank with uniformed clerks behind counters; the unlicensed bank operated for a little over a year, then defaulted on its obligations, swindling Chinese savers out of 200 million Chinese yuan.[50]

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_confidence_tricks#Big_Store

    While Stanton’s statistics are enlightening in themselves, a more detailed picture emerges in David Weisburd’s Yale-published Crimes of the Middle Classes: White-Collar Offenders in the Federal Courts (1991). Here Weisburd informs us that although Jews comprise only around 2% of the United States population, they contribute at least 9% of lower category white-collar crimes (bank embezzlement, tax fraud and bank fraud), at least 15% of moderate category white-collar crimes (mail fraud, false claims, and bribery), and at least 33% of high category white-collar crimes (antitrust and securities fraud).

    http://www.theoccidentalobserver.net/2016/05/philip-green-jewish-criminality-and-the-cost-of-economic-parasitism/#_ftnref2

    Spring 2012 White Collar Crime and the United States’ Economy Megan Graham University of New Hampshire – Main Campus

    White collar crime has such a high financial impact on business and society that it becomes far more widespread. When a company shuts down due to a criminal act, there are jobs lost at all levels, as well as investors who lose money, upset consumers, and years’ worth of litigation involved. The sheer impact of scandals such as AIG and Lehman Brothers is a great example. Almost everyone knew someone was affected by these corporate failings. [...] Blue collar crime is expensive, costing roughly $14 billion every year (Veen). This seems like a
    lot of money, and until it is put into perspective with the cost of white collar crime, it seems as
    though the main focus of policing efforts should go towards blue collar crimes. Unfortunately, white collar crime costs roughly 14 times the amount blue collar crime does, or about 200 billion each year (Veen). Most people are unaware of this cost, and just choose to focus on blue collar crime.

    http://scholars.unh.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1048&context=honors

    Introduction: White-Collar and Corporate Crime in Asia

    In the case of Japan, criminological interest traditionally has been focused on the country’s much-heralded low crime rate. Given that the depth of the problem of white-collar crime goes far deeper than adjudicated cases, Japan’s remarkably low rate of common crime is likely eclipsed by the level of white-collar and corporate crime. Numerous cases abound of egregious wrongdoing by banks, corporations, and politicians at the highest levels of government. [...] Johnson (2003) notes some of Japan’s “intractable problems,” including trillions of dollars in unrecoverable bank loans, nuclear accidents and cover-up, and structural corruption. He points out that compared to the U.S., laws directed against the wrongdoing of powerful people and organizations are weaker in Japan. “In the words of Jonathan Swift, this disparity means that Japanese law is like a cobweb, catching small flies but letting wasps and hornets break through” (Johnson 2003:778).

    http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11417-010-9093-4

    Read More
    • Replies: @res
    A good point about differing values of crime by group. Unfortunately, I don't see much data covering that.

    Thanks for supplying some links. Of those, only the second really seems to speak to group representation. I looked at the Google preview of Weisburd's book (pages 71-73) referenced in the article and the data there looks suggestive (I find the basic point convincing), but neither rigorous nor complete.

    Beyond that, I don't know about Jewish over representation in white collar crime (the FBI stats don't have that breakdown), but I will observe that if whites are roughly proportionally represented and Jews are over represented that implies non-Jewish whites are under represented (assuming almost all Jews are white). None of this changes the black over representation in the FBI stats though, but your point about low vs. high value crime is worthwhile and I'd like to see an analysis capturing that.

    I also think it is worth emphasizing that Asians are substantially under represented in the FBI white collar crime statistics--about one fourth of their population proportion.
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  201. America was a beautiful place before the
    Spanish came and murdered and enslaved pillaged. Spanish, half Moor blood of course!

    https://sites.google.com/site/ancientmayancivilization/_/rsrc/1320266174168/ancient-maya-society/mayan%20sacrafice.gif?height=400&width=278

    I agree, huuu

    Read More
    • Replies: @edNels
    Good visual, but with 2.5m wherehoused in concrete tombs, maybe it would be good to build morePyramids and less (for profit) incarceration facilities.

    https://www.adobegallery.com/art/original-casein-painting-indian-farmer-

    hyahya
    , @joe webb
    you need a course in amerindian history. For example, the Trail of Tears injuns brought their mostly black slaves with them.

    Slavery, torture, constant warfare....was the absolute norm. Look at pacific northwest injuns...you held your territory from creek x to creek y, and anybody who trespassed was dead meat. You see it in their masks and other images... terrify your enemies. Not any better than Africans or Aztecs who incidentally also ate their victims.

    Joe Webb
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  202. utu says:
    @Santoculto
    As always I agree with most part of your comment but I know your ideology affect your full factual understanding of this piece as I said in other comment about leftists and Freed. IQ measure intelligence, partly, part of their cognitive aspect, nothing more by now. If psychometricians start to embody the extreme relevance of rationality/wisdom and creativity"quantitative levels" so i think IQ will become much more accurate and that number will express more near the real size of our intellects.

    Psychometricians on the right, specially, are essentially concerned with "achievements" in school, faculty or university and in material terms, they pay little attention to the everyday "little' achievements people usually do or not, mostly of them are social, emotional and rational.

    They believe this work-life cycle express intelligence, only this. In other words they are basically applying their own masculine and ant-worker mentality trying over-generalize intelligence, concepts and their expressions to their own side. Just like if engineers try to impose that engineering is the genuine or central manifestation of human intelligence.

    Unfortunately seems so many "intelligence experts" don't appear to be intelligent enough to understand what they are studying, dedicating their lifes.

    I have to admit that I agree with your comment. Except for the part “I know your ideology affect your full factual understanding.” You do not know my ideology. By now I understand this stuff pretty well. What I try to figure out by reading here the articles and comments what does make all those people who are into the IQistry tick. Where are they coming from and what their psychological needs are being satisfied? Certainly this ain’t the need to know and understand?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
    Isn't it enough to be interested -as people have been since anout 1880 - in preventing the degradation of populations by the dim who breed early and often (though not in every country and every age) outbreeding the smart who took to family planning and many years of education for women increasingly, starting with the Protestant upper middle classes who, per Greg Clark, had been outbreeding the rest for several hundred years before that. Consider...three Jews and six Catholics on the highest court of a Protestant country! And Jews then Catholics followed the down trend of smart pekple's fertility. It's a worry.
    , @Santoculto
    Yes you're right I'm little suspicious. What is your ideology? Your nationality? Ethnicity? This way I will become knowledgeable about part of your intentions, or not.

    I think you're against IQ tests and their results specially to disprove racial differences in intelligence and specially when IQ prove whites are on disproportional avg smarter than blacks. Again, my suspicions can be wrong.

    Most of what I prefer call less polite way "IQdiots" are unaware about their own intentions and flaws. They think they are protected from cognitive dissonance, only on the left and religious on the right who can make ad hoc rationalizations about personal beliefs, after all "they are SCIENTIFIC WHITE 'MAAALE'"!!!

    Hbd truly believe they are protected from cognitive dissonance. None is totally and naturally safe. To fight against it is at daily basis (proxy to the wisdom).

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  203. @res

    A sum of two normal random variables is not normal. So if the Bell Curve of the sum is Gaussian, the Bell Curves of the components cannot be Gaussian and vice versa.
     
    Right. But we are not talking about an ideal theoretical curve, rather noisy IQ data for what are best viewed as multiple groups.

    As long as the means and SDs are fairly close or the minority groups are fairly small the result should stay close to Gaussian. In the real situation where the means can vary by an SD or more between groups and the minority populations are significant the result is more complicated. There is much talk about the IQ distribution being fat tailed (relative to the Gaussian distribution), but it is unclear to me if:
    1. This is false
    2. If true is it an artifact of multiple smaller groups on either side of the majority averaging near 100.
    3. The IQ distribution for a given group really is fat tailed.

    Thanks. I don’t think he was disagreeing with me but you anyway put the situation clearly. I think your answer 2. re fat tails is probably the best one at least for the right tails because left tails might all be similarly affected by congenital and other defects which are not just minor genetically caused deficiencies on a continuum. However 3. could be the answer if you want to define your “given group” so it doesn’t recognise generations of caste or class difference or treats all Israelis (e.g.) as one group. Now we should probably define the Ivy League Assortative Mating League as a separately defined group which doesn’t itself have fat tails…

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  204. edNels says:
    @Santoculto

    America was a beautiful place before the
    Spanish came and murdered and enslaved pillaged. Spanish, half Moor blood of course!
     
    https://sites.google.com/site/ancientmayancivilization/_/rsrc/1320266174168/ancient-maya-society/mayan%20sacrafice.gif?height=400&width=278

    I agree, huuu

    Good visual, but with 2.5m wherehoused in concrete tombs, maybe it would be good to build morePyramids and less (for profit) incarceration facilities.

    https://www.adobegallery.com/art/original-casein-painting-indian-farmer-

    hyahya

    Read More
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  205. @utu
    I have to admit that I agree with your comment. Except for the part "I know your ideology affect your full factual understanding." You do not know my ideology. By now I understand this stuff pretty well. What I try to figure out by reading here the articles and comments what does make all those people who are into the IQistry tick. Where are they coming from and what their psychological needs are being satisfied? Certainly this ain't the need to know and understand?

    Isn’t it enough to be interested -as people have been since anout 1880 – in preventing the degradation of populations by the dim who breed early and often (though not in every country and every age) outbreeding the smart who took to family planning and many years of education for women increasingly, starting with the Protestant upper middle classes who, per Greg Clark, had been outbreeding the rest for several hundred years before that. Consider…three Jews and six Catholics on the highest court of a Protestant country! And Jews then Catholics followed the down trend of smart pekple’s fertility. It’s a worry.

    Read More
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  206. […] On intelligence, its measurement, and it relevance. […]

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  207. @Rich
    Oh, so there is no actual test that shows this huge IQ disparity. It's just a feeling you have. That's how I had it figured. I wasted a bit of time looking for evidence of high Ashkenazi IQ test results, and found none. Thanks for confirming my results.

    Your reply has the truly pathetic air of the behaviour of the dim child of ambitious parents who wants to say something rather than just give up arguing with the class swat and you can’t even stop yourself spouting your ya-boo stand in for a response before taking notice of two succeasive Tbc replies which would have led you to La Griffe du Lion’s work that I linked. But for your information EVERY professionally designed IQ test, plus SATs and alternatives, shows the big disparity between Adhkenazic IQs and those of almost any defined group you can think of.

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    • Replies: @Rich
    Except, I went to your link and apparently everything is based on "estimated IQ." There is absolutely no information anywhere on the internet that provides information about a separate test of Ashkenazi IQ. All I'm asking you to do is to provide information on the actual test given. Not on estimates, not on guesses. You've been unable to do that, so you engage in personal attacks. (I'm curious how any SAT test would show the disparity since neither religion nor ethnicity is given when the SAT is taken, only race.) If the information about an actual IQ test given to people who were Ashkenazi is readily available, why are you refusing to provide it? Oftentimes, people believe something to be common knowledge, but once they investigate they find out it is untrue.
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  208. Rich says:
    @Wizard of Oz
    Your reply has the truly pathetic air of the behaviour of the dim child of ambitious parents who wants to say something rather than just give up arguing with the class swat and you can't even stop yourself spouting your ya-boo stand in for a response before taking notice of two succeasive Tbc replies which would have led you to La Griffe du Lion's work that I linked. But for your information EVERY professionally designed IQ test, plus SATs and alternatives, shows the big disparity between Adhkenazic IQs and those of almost any defined group you can think of.

    Except, I went to your link and apparently everything is based on “estimated IQ.” There is absolutely no information anywhere on the internet that provides information about a separate test of Ashkenazi IQ. All I’m asking you to do is to provide information on the actual test given. Not on estimates, not on guesses. You’ve been unable to do that, so you engage in personal attacks. (I’m curious how any SAT test would show the disparity since neither religion nor ethnicity is given when the SAT is taken, only race.) If the information about an actual IQ test given to people who were Ashkenazi is readily available, why are you refusing to provide it? Oftentimes, people believe something to be common knowledge, but once they investigate they find out it is untrue.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
    See #209
    , @FKA Max

    I’m curious how any SAT test would show the disparity since neither religion nor ethnicity is given when the SAT is taken, only race.
     
    There are actually some average SAT scores recorded by religious affiliation of the test takers. Unitarians and Quakers had higher scores than Jews one year, but just barely:

    Arthur Hu has the 1990 average SAT scores by religion and by race. Note that scores averaged about 100 points lower than today before "recentering" in mid-1995. The two letter prefixes refer to race (Wh = white, AS = Asian, Al = All, etc.). In this, white Episcopalians barely outscored black Unitarians, and were 60 points behind Jews.

    Race Religion Number Math + Verbal SAT
    Wh Unitarian 1,745 1073
    Wh Quaker 894 1037
    Wh Judaism 25,600 1030 * Jewish Avg
    Al Quaker 1,009 1029
    [...]
    And here's a 2002 report on high SAT scoring groups from Gene Expression: Average SAT score by religion for 2002, average ~1000, about 40% of each students take it
    Unitarian-Universalists 1209
    Judaism 1161
    Quakers 1153
     
    - http://isteve.blogspot.com/2009/10/episcopalians-v-jews-on-iq.html

    Money talks when it comes to the SATs, in my opinion. Asians, and I assume Jews and other wealthy groups as well, hire expensive and experienced tutors to help them/their kids prepare for the test. Also Asians, and I assume Jews and other wealthy groups, take the test several times, not just once, and usually do better on their second or third attempt. A poor smart kid, whatever his or her ethnicity/religion, who can't afford to take the test several times, is at a disadvantage here, and it skews the test results in favor of wealthier religious and ethnic groups; when they might in fact not be smarter, but just can afford to dedicate more time and resources towards achieving higher SAT scores:

    On the Asian rise: I live in California. It is impossible to understand what people like me mean by “Asian test prep” unless you live in one of the areas where it exists. So unless you see “SAT academies” on every street corner, sometimes 3 to a building, and realize that each of those business is selling a minimum of 50-70 hours of test prep per kid, it might be difficult to understand. Kaplan has largely disappeared in my neck of the woods. Whites in my area are doing far, far less test prep.
     
    - http://www.unz.com/freed/iq-a-skeptics-view/#comment-1728574

    Also there is cheating...

    Law-enforcement officials in this country say that highly organized rings of college-admission-exams imposters—once considered a unique artifact of the high-stakes, test-driven Chinese education system—have arrived on U.S. shores.

    – http://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2016/03/how-sophisticated-test-scams-from-china-are-making-their-way-into-the-us/474474/
     
    - http://www.unz.com/isteve/sat-scandal/#comment-1544526

    Jews and the Chinese seem to be equally ambitious and competitive, some might even call it cunning. Interestingly, the two groups/races seem to have comparable IQs and seem to be carrying the low-activity 3-repeat MAOA allele at very similar rates:

    Jews (2R 1.3%; 3R 62%) carry low-activity MAOA at much higher rates than Whites (2R 0.2%; 3R 36%): http://theunsilencedscience.blogspot.com/2013/01/monoamine-oxidase-bibliography.html Low-activity MAOA is associated with higher levels of aggressiveness and risk-taking
     
    - http://www.unz.com/freed/iq-a-skeptics-view/#comment-1726637

    Low MAO-A activity is associated with a significantly increased risk of aggressive and antisocial behavior.[100][102][103][104]
     
    - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychopathy#Genetic

    As both authors belong to one of the above groups and coming from an immigrant family, namely Chua being Chinese and Rubenfeld being Jewish, Chua further claims that “Chinese Americans are three generations behind the Jews” as both Jewish Americans and Chinese Americans share lots of similar behaviors like being instructed to learn how to play a musical instrument when they were little and encouraged to become a doctor, teacher or a lawyer.
     
    - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Triple_Package#Methodology
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  209. I’m not refusing anything except to humour a dolt. Your question is infantile.

    There is no such thing as “a separate test of Ashkenazi IQ” as you would know if you knew anything about the subject you purport to discuss.

    Your objection to “estimates” is equally outlandish. An IQ measure is itself an estimate in the sense of approximation or indication of various human attributes or combinations of attributes and/or potential. You seem to be forgetting that you started asking a question, which if it embodied any clear thinking by you, was about the evidence that Ashkenazi Jews (though you wandered off into a rabbit hole inhabited by “Israelis” at one stage) scored on average, or would if any large group of them were tested score, substantially higher than other ethnic groups. Alternatively you seem to be denying a connection between their high IQ scores and significant achievement requiring high cognitive ability. I take it that you have abandoned your ridiculous suggestion that winning disproportionate numbers of Nobel Prizes for physics, chemistry, medicine and economics is no evidence of superior average cognitive ability??? So perhaps now you just want to know why one should suppose a randomly selected large group of Ashkenazi Jews would probably score as much as 0.7 sds above the North European average. And there is the difficulty that, if you are not trolling, you just can’t understand La Griffe’s reasoning. Well, if you aren’t trolling and you genuinely want to understand I REPEAT that you should email Griffe and Steve Sailer who probably have a Psychometrics for Dummies package ready to hand out to people who need their hands held. If you can’t be bothered to do that I assume you are just trolling and I can’t be bothered to do your homework or engage tutors for you.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anon

    There is no such thing as “a separate test of Ashkenazi IQ” as you would know if you knew anything about the subject you purport to discuss.

     

    For those of us who don't know anything about the subject, why not? Can't you get a randomly selected group of a couple of hundred or thousand Ashkenazim, ditto Sephardim, ditto Mizrahim, controlling for income, in say the Tel Aviv area, and give them all IQ tests? It would be expensive, but why unfeasible?
    , @Rich
    Well, even though you're probably the biggest fanboy of the Ashkenazi that I've ever come across in my life, you've finally admitted that there is no actual proof of Ashkenazi IQ superiority. I won't go into why some Ashkenazi may have won political awards or may be over-represented in certain fields, obviously that would be beyond your ability to understand. I grew up in Queens and Long Island and I've never even met a Jew who was as crazy as you about Ashkenazi intelligence, it's really weird. But at least, after many responses, you've admitted the truth. There is no IQ test that shows Ashkenazi score higher than any other Europeans.
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  210. @Rich
    Except, I went to your link and apparently everything is based on "estimated IQ." There is absolutely no information anywhere on the internet that provides information about a separate test of Ashkenazi IQ. All I'm asking you to do is to provide information on the actual test given. Not on estimates, not on guesses. You've been unable to do that, so you engage in personal attacks. (I'm curious how any SAT test would show the disparity since neither religion nor ethnicity is given when the SAT is taken, only race.) If the information about an actual IQ test given to people who were Ashkenazi is readily available, why are you refusing to provide it? Oftentimes, people believe something to be common knowledge, but once they investigate they find out it is untrue.

    See #209

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  211. @utu
    I have to admit that I agree with your comment. Except for the part "I know your ideology affect your full factual understanding." You do not know my ideology. By now I understand this stuff pretty well. What I try to figure out by reading here the articles and comments what does make all those people who are into the IQistry tick. Where are they coming from and what their psychological needs are being satisfied? Certainly this ain't the need to know and understand?

    Yes you’re right I’m little suspicious. What is your ideology? Your nationality? Ethnicity? This way I will become knowledgeable about part of your intentions, or not.

    I think you’re against IQ tests and their results specially to disprove racial differences in intelligence and specially when IQ prove whites are on disproportional avg smarter than blacks. Again, my suspicions can be wrong.

    Most of what I prefer call less polite way “IQdiots” are unaware about their own intentions and flaws. They think they are protected from cognitive dissonance, only on the left and religious on the right who can make ad hoc rationalizations about personal beliefs, after all “they are SCIENTIFIC WHITE ‘MAAALE’”!!!

    Hbd truly believe they are protected from cognitive dissonance. None is totally and naturally safe. To fight against it is at daily basis (proxy to the wisdom).

    Read More
    • Replies: @res

    Hbd truly believe they are protected from cognitive dissonance. None is totally and naturally safe. To fight against it is at daily basis (proxy to the wisdom).
     
    Indeed (the 2nd and 3rd sentences at least). Hopefully you are self aware enough to realize this applies to you as well. Please be careful when assuming others aren't that self aware.
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  212. Anon says: • Disclaimer
    @Wizard of Oz
    @Rich

    I'm not refusing anything except to humour a dolt. Your question is infantile.

    There is no such thing as "a separate test of Ashkenazi IQ" as you would know if you knew anything about the subject you purport to discuss.

    Your objection to "estimates" is equally outlandish. An IQ measure is itself an estimate in the sense of approximation or indication of various human attributes or combinations of attributes and/or potential. You seem to be forgetting that you started asking a question, which if it embodied any clear thinking by you, was about the evidence that Ashkenazi Jews (though you wandered off into a rabbit hole inhabited by "Israelis" at one stage) scored on average, or would if any large group of them were tested score, substantially higher than other ethnic groups. Alternatively you seem to be denying a connection between their high IQ scores and significant achievement requiring high cognitive ability. I take it that you have abandoned your ridiculous suggestion that winning disproportionate numbers of Nobel Prizes for physics, chemistry, medicine and economics is no evidence of superior average cognitive ability??? So perhaps now you just want to know why one should suppose a randomly selected large group of Ashkenazi Jews would probably score as much as 0.7 sds above the North European average. And there is the difficulty that, if you are not trolling, you just can't understand La Griffe's reasoning. Well, if you aren't trolling and you genuinely want to understand I REPEAT that you should email Griffe and Steve Sailer who probably have a Psychometrics for Dummies package ready to hand out to people who need their hands held. If you can't be bothered to do that I assume you are just trolling and I can't be bothered to do your homework or engage tutors for you.

    There is no such thing as “a separate test of Ashkenazi IQ” as you would know if you knew anything about the subject you purport to discuss.

    For those of us who don’t know anything about the subject, why not? Can’t you get a randomly selected group of a couple of hundred or thousand Ashkenazim, ditto Sephardim, ditto Mizrahim, controlling for income, in say the Tel Aviv area, and give them all IQ tests? It would be expensive, but why unfeasible?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
    Indeed you are right but you missed the word "separate" which the irritating fool used. While I realise, on the one hand, that his language and logic are so loose that he may not mean what he appears to say I am not willing to go fossicking in the rabbit warren of his mind and verbiage to try and create a sensible question to answer. Life's too short, or at least my patience is.

    Ashkenazi Jews on average score high on every g related test from Wechsler (successive versions) to Stanford-Binet to Cattell and Raven's Progressive Matrices plus SAT, Field Medals, Nobel Prizes, memberships of scientific academies, professorships in math and the hard (actually all) sciences, success in legal practice, competitive chess and a thousand other activities where the smart do better than the dim.
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  213. Rdm says:
    @Citizen of a Silly Country
    I wouldn't call IQ research malarkey. It's pretty useful, if imperfect.

    But, yes, I agree that fixating on IQ as the only measure of human beings or groups isn't right. I don't want to live in a 90%+ white country because our average IQ is higher or lower than other groups. I simply want to live with my own kind because we understand each other in a way that we could never understand other groups.

    Whether other groups have higher or lower IQs or achievements doesn't much matter to me. A 95% white country (oh, what a wonderful thought) with 10 million people could improve its overall IQ by importing 10 million 130+ IQ Chinese, but that'd be silly.

    I don't want to live in a country without blacks and browns because I hate them. I wish them well. I want to live in a white country for the same reason I care for and understand my children more than I care for and understand other people's children. I wouldn't replace one of my kids for a high IQ Indian kid, so why would I let them into my country.

    I want to live in a white country for the same reason I care for and understand my children more than I care for and understand other people’s children. I wouldn’t replace one of my kids for a high IQ Indian kid, so why would I let them into my country.

    It’s the same mentality as those chimpanzees. They enjoy being around to their own kinds. There’s nothing wrong with that. No chimpanzee will enjoy interacting with high IQ homo sapiens. Over a couple of centuries, those high IQ homo sapiens come and take over those low IQ chimpanzee, put them in a cage, showcase in a zoo. This is to show you the mental image of how species evolve.

    If and only if Chimpanzee realize how beneficial to them if they start making a policy, interacting with those high IQ homo sapiens, dwell with them, become a pet to them, they will have no danger in the future. Look at Cats and Dogs. That’s how they evolve. So there’s no harm to them.

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  214. Songbird says:
    @joe webb
    about 5 years ago at an anti-immigrant demo in Petaluma CA ( slightly north of SF Bay Area and close to grape growers and some other agriculture and Santa Rosa, a used to be cow-town but now a wonderfully diverse city with many gangs, mexico of course....I had deployed my Uncle Sam act with a sign about borders, and so on.

    A big and tall guy strides up to me with a cowboy hat and says, "I'm a Mexican!" without a smile on his face. I said, "no you're not, you got blue eyes, are tall and you are a Spaniard. " He laughed and said, "we are shipping all our shit people up to you."

    Mexico is approximately 9 per cent Spaniard, who have been keeping their blood relatively pure for a long time, after having miscegenated a while back of course. The Portuguese and the Spaniards came without women and the English did come with their women. The difference is a century or two and Protestantism vs. Catholicism.

    About 60% in Mexico are mestizos, and 30 % are injuns, with an average IQ, per Lynn, of about 83. Put an injun and a Spaniard together and you get an IQ of about 90. Now, I dunno about the Spanish these days. Spain's IQ is 97 per Lynn, and Portugal's is 95, as I recall (Portugal was the only European country to bring in African slaves...I have read...true?)

    My only brief sojourn in Spain was going over the border from the Dordoggne (?) in France to see Gaudi's architecture in Barcelona. It was very hot. I had two nights and 3 days there, and got nicked or attempted nicking , as in petty theft, 5 times. Never anywhere else in Europe. (Gaudi's art is worth seeing but not worth a special trip...stick to the picture books.)

    So, Europe's southern blood probably leaves something to be desired, given the Arab and Turk mixtures over the centuries. Thank god the Germans rescued Europe after the fall of Rome, by invading it. The beauty of some Spanish ladies , however, is probably due in part to Arab blood.
    The typical aryan woman has long legs but a face that is somewhat mannish. I prefer brunettes but with legs...you can't have everything.

    So, Fred on Nothing spreads his verbiage around about how great mexicans are. My local mid-peninsula (south of San Francisco) jail in Redwood City, has just added another jail to handle the mexican diversity. Go into the Hall of Justice, and the courtroom floors are about 90 % peopled with mexicans. I assume that the remaining ten percent are about half white lawyers.

    Race Traitors are real, plentiful, and like many jews, their mouths never shut up.
    Joe Webb

    I agree. Jury duty is eye-opening. My last experience: all the jurors were white (I’m guessing the non-whites were among the people who didn’t show up.) The people hanging out on the court floors (giant herd) were nearly all brown. Everyone who betokened law and order or civilization was white.

    The accused, an immigrant, had tattoos on all his fingers. He was obviously guilty from his own testimony, but there were too many brainwashed, bleeding-hearts on the jury. They kept making absurd excuses. They wanted a videotape, and so he got off scott-free. All that expense – the prosecutor, the defense lawyer, the judge, the court officers, the cop who testified, the jurors’ time – was wasted.

    And this is alarming to think about – theoretically, the juries are only getting stupider.

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    • Replies: @joe webb
    right...the violence and mayhem of mexers will accelerate as they realize they cannot get ahead and have forgotten the dirt of mexico. JW
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  215. Ned2 says:
    @Songbird
    I've always viewed the lowball estimate of Irish IQ to be pretty questionable, despite Lynn at least formerly believing in it. Even based on old, conjectural evidence: small geographic distance between Ireland and Britain, paired with a high phenotypic similarity, and mixed history. Irish people have also long been known to have large heads.

    Emmigration from Ireland was mainly pretty nonselective, many American purebloods still exist, yet there is no contemporary marked disparity. No one ever talked about closing the Irish-American test gap, despite heavy involvement of the Irish in politics. There was no Irish affirmative action.

    Now it appears, the genetic distance between Ireland and England is pretty low, so I think that really takes away any power for Ireland as a counterexample.

    Everyone knows the Irishman’s IQ rises dramatically after the consumption of six to eight pints of Guinness.

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    • Replies: @Ivy
    Don't forget the potato, makes a seven course meal with a six pack.
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  216. FKA Max says:
    @Rich
    Except, I went to your link and apparently everything is based on "estimated IQ." There is absolutely no information anywhere on the internet that provides information about a separate test of Ashkenazi IQ. All I'm asking you to do is to provide information on the actual test given. Not on estimates, not on guesses. You've been unable to do that, so you engage in personal attacks. (I'm curious how any SAT test would show the disparity since neither religion nor ethnicity is given when the SAT is taken, only race.) If the information about an actual IQ test given to people who were Ashkenazi is readily available, why are you refusing to provide it? Oftentimes, people believe something to be common knowledge, but once they investigate they find out it is untrue.

    I’m curious how any SAT test would show the disparity since neither religion nor ethnicity is given when the SAT is taken, only race.

    There are actually some average SAT scores recorded by religious affiliation of the test takers. Unitarians and Quakers had higher scores than Jews one year, but just barely:

    Arthur Hu has the 1990 average SAT scores by religion and by race. Note that scores averaged about 100 points lower than today before “recentering” in mid-1995. The two letter prefixes refer to race (Wh = white, AS = Asian, Al = All, etc.). In this, white Episcopalians barely outscored black Unitarians, and were 60 points behind Jews.

    Race Religion Number Math + Verbal SAT
    Wh Unitarian 1,745 1073
    Wh Quaker 894 1037
    Wh Judaism 25,600 1030 * Jewish Avg
    Al Quaker 1,009 1029
    [...]
    And here’s a 2002 report on high SAT scoring groups from Gene Expression: Average SAT score by religion for 2002, average ~1000, about 40% of each students take it
    Unitarian-Universalists 1209
    Judaism 1161
    Quakers 1153

    http://isteve.blogspot.com/2009/10/episcopalians-v-jews-on-iq.html

    Money talks when it comes to the SATs, in my opinion. Asians, and I assume Jews and other wealthy groups as well, hire expensive and experienced tutors to help them/their kids prepare for the test. Also Asians, and I assume Jews and other wealthy groups, take the test several times, not just once, and usually do better on their second or third attempt. A poor smart kid, whatever his or her ethnicity/religion, who can’t afford to take the test several times, is at a disadvantage here, and it skews the test results in favor of wealthier religious and ethnic groups; when they might in fact not be smarter, but just can afford to dedicate more time and resources towards achieving higher SAT scores:

    On the Asian rise: I live in California. It is impossible to understand what people like me mean by “Asian test prep” unless you live in one of the areas where it exists. So unless you see “SAT academies” on every street corner, sometimes 3 to a building, and realize that each of those business is selling a minimum of 50-70 hours of test prep per kid, it might be difficult to understand. Kaplan has largely disappeared in my neck of the woods. Whites in my area are doing far, far less test prep.

    http://www.unz.com/freed/iq-a-skeptics-view/#comment-1728574

    Also there is cheating…

    Law-enforcement officials in this country say that highly organized rings of college-admission-exams imposters—once considered a unique artifact of the high-stakes, test-driven Chinese education system—have arrived on U.S. shores.

    http://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2016/03/how-sophisticated-test-scams-from-china-are-making-their-way-into-the-us/474474/

    http://www.unz.com/isteve/sat-scandal/#comment-1544526

    Jews and the Chinese seem to be equally ambitious and competitive, some might even call it cunning. Interestingly, the two groups/races seem to have comparable IQs and seem to be carrying the low-activity 3-repeat MAOA allele at very similar rates:

    Jews (2R 1.3%; 3R 62%) carry low-activity MAOA at much higher rates than Whites (2R 0.2%; 3R 36%): http://theunsilencedscience.blogspot.com/2013/01/monoamine-oxidase-bibliography.html Low-activity MAOA is associated with higher levels of aggressiveness and risk-taking

    http://www.unz.com/freed/iq-a-skeptics-view/#comment-1726637

    Low MAO-A activity is associated with a significantly increased risk of aggressive and antisocial behavior.[100][102][103][104]

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychopathy#Genetic

    As both authors belong to one of the above groups and coming from an immigrant family, namely Chua being Chinese and Rubenfeld being Jewish, Chua further claims that “Chinese Americans are three generations behind the Jews” as both Jewish Americans and Chinese Americans share lots of similar behaviors like being instructed to learn how to play a musical instrument when they were little and encouraged to become a doctor, teacher or a lawyer.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Triple_Package#Methodology

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    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
    I think you point to evidence that sanguine hopes for testing that couldn't be prepared for were bound to be disappointed. But I recall that Eysenck wrote in favour of England's 11 plus tests for entry to grammar schools - possibly as early as the 50s - but made it clear that he thought fairness would be assured by giving the test three times so as to virtually eliminate the coaching effect. (Pity about the smart kids who got bored doing the same sort of stuff three times!). I am a bit sceptical about Raven's Progressiv Matrices really being a good universal IQ test but would have to agree that only a limited amount of coaching or repetitions of the test would be likely to boost scores.

    In the context of coaching and cramming effects that you have brought up it interests me that the generally quoted figure of 115 for average Ashkenazi IQ of 20 years ago became more like 112 by the time La Griffe wrote the piece I linked above. And the wider recognition of the Flynn Effect is another reason for being sceptical about any claims to precision.
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  217. res says:
    @FKA Max
    There are different categories of white-collar crime. I am pretty certain Blacks commit mostly lower and medium category white-collar crimes, whereas Jews and other high(er)-IQ white-collar criminals commit most of the high category white-collar crimes, which are the crimes, that are the most costly to society, in financial terms. The quality/size of the white-collar crime measured in financial damage caused by the crime is very important to take into account. Just focusing on the quantity of white-collar crimes committed by certain ethnic groups while leaving out their size/quality can be misleading/obfuscating, in my opinion, e.g., the``street con'' versus the ``Big Store con'':

    In 2014, a rural co-operative in Nanjing, China constructed an entire brick-and-mortar fake bank with uniformed clerks behind counters; the unlicensed bank operated for a little over a year, then defaulted on its obligations, swindling Chinese savers out of 200 million Chinese yuan.[50]
     
    - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_confidence_tricks#Big_Store


    While Stanton’s statistics are enlightening in themselves, a more detailed picture emerges in David Weisburd’s Yale-published Crimes of the Middle Classes: White-Collar Offenders in the Federal Courts (1991). Here Weisburd informs us that although Jews comprise only around 2% of the United States population, they contribute at least 9% of lower category white-collar crimes (bank embezzlement, tax fraud and bank fraud), at least 15% of moderate category white-collar crimes (mail fraud, false claims, and bribery), and at least 33% of high category white-collar crimes (antitrust and securities fraud).
     
    - http://www.theoccidentalobserver.net/2016/05/philip-green-jewish-criminality-and-the-cost-of-economic-parasitism/#_ftnref2

    Spring 2012 White Collar Crime and the United States' Economy Megan Graham University of New Hampshire - Main Campus

    White collar crime has such a high financial impact on business and society that it becomes far more widespread. When a company shuts down due to a criminal act, there are jobs lost at all levels, as well as investors who lose money, upset consumers, and years’ worth of litigation involved. The sheer impact of scandals such as AIG and Lehman Brothers is a great example. Almost everyone knew someone was affected by these corporate failings. [...] Blue collar crime is expensive, costing roughly $14 billion every year (Veen). This seems like a
    lot of money, and until it is put into perspective with the cost of white collar crime, it seems as
    though the main focus of policing efforts should go towards blue collar crimes. Unfortunately, white collar crime costs roughly 14 times the amount blue collar crime does, or about 200 billion each year (Veen). Most people are unaware of this cost, and just choose to focus on blue collar crime.
     
    - http://scholars.unh.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1048&context=honors

    Introduction: White-Collar and Corporate Crime in Asia

    In the case of Japan, criminological interest traditionally has been focused on the country’s much-heralded low crime rate. Given that the depth of the problem of white-collar crime goes far deeper than adjudicated cases, Japan’s remarkably low rate of common crime is likely eclipsed by the level of white-collar and corporate crime. Numerous cases abound of egregious wrongdoing by banks, corporations, and politicians at the highest levels of government. [...] Johnson (2003) notes some of Japan’s “intractable problems,” including trillions of dollars in unrecoverable bank loans, nuclear accidents and cover-up, and structural corruption. He points out that compared to the U.S., laws directed against the wrongdoing of powerful people and organizations are weaker in Japan. “In the words of Jonathan Swift, this disparity means that Japanese law is like a cobweb, catching small flies but letting wasps and hornets break through” (Johnson 2003:778).
     
    - http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11417-010-9093-4

    A good point about differing values of crime by group. Unfortunately, I don’t see much data covering that.

    Thanks for supplying some links. Of those, only the second really seems to speak to group representation. I looked at the Google preview of Weisburd’s book (pages 71-73) referenced in the article and the data there looks suggestive (I find the basic point convincing), but neither rigorous nor complete.

    Beyond that, I don’t know about Jewish over representation in white collar crime (the FBI stats don’t have that breakdown), but I will observe that if whites are roughly proportionally represented and Jews are over represented that implies non-Jewish whites are under represented (assuming almost all Jews are white). None of this changes the black over representation in the FBI stats though, but your point about low vs. high value crime is worthwhile and I’d like to see an analysis capturing that.

    I also think it is worth emphasizing that Asians are substantially under represented in the FBI white collar crime statistics–about one fourth of their population proportion.

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    • Replies: @FKA Max

    I also think it is worth emphasizing that Asians are substantially under represented in the FBI white collar crime statistics–about one fourth of their population proportion.
     
    This is true, but I think it can be explained by the fact, that most jobs, especially high-powered ones, in finance and in business in the U.S. are still currently held by Whites and Jews mostly. Once the percentage of Chinese-Americans increases as their share of the population, they will behave differently.

    I think if Asians/Chinese were more strongly represented at the higher levels of the finance and business communities in the U.S., we would probably see more of them commit high value/category white-collar crimes. One needs opportunity to commit these high value white-collar crimes.

    This is why I shared the paper about white-collar crime in Asia and in Japan above, which is a field not very well researched and understood, yet.

    High(er)-IQ Asians are smart enough to know, that it is not worth taking the risk of committing a white-collar crime if the payout is small. Blacks usually don't think in terms of a risk-reward ratio when they commit crimes, in my experience.

    Also, even if some Blacks had access to the higher levels and positions of power within the financial and business sector in America, they would just not have high enough IQs to pull off big-scale ponzi schemes and cons à la Bernie Madoff, in my opinion.

    One needs opportunity AND ability (a high(er) IQ) to commit and pull off these high value white-collar crimes.

    Blacks' lower average IQ prevents them from committing high value/high category types of white-collar crimes, in my opinion.

    This was actually my original point, that corrupt and sociopathic/psychopathic high(er)-IQ individuals/races can do a lot more damage than low(er)-IQ ones, in terms of financial damage caused by their crimes, etc., and many so-called ``race realists'' and IQists completely ignore this dynamic, or even welcome it, which really makes them Social Darwinists, in my opinion.


    There have been anecdotal reports that at least one UK bank was using a psychopathy measure to actively recruit psychopaths.[37]
     
    - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychopathy_in_the_workplace#Screening

    I think Social Darwinsts are dangerous.

    I personally believe Chinese immigration to the U.S. is a greater threat to America than Mexican immigration for example, precisely because of their high IQs and the high prevalence of the low-activity MAOA allele in their gene pool, which is associated with psychopathy/anti-social behavior: http://www.unz.com/freed/iq-a-skeptics-view/#comment-1725649

    I still do not want the Hispanic and Black populations in the U.S. to grow, because it is not good for the traditionally Northern European/Protestant culture and innovativeness of the country. This is why I support Planned Parenthood, want immigration to stop, and oppose amnesty, birthright citizenship and the Catholic Church [http://www.population-security.org/], etc..
    But, I think, qualitatively, Chinese immigrants are far more dangerous and can do a lot more damage and harm to the U.S., e.g., industrial and military espionage, takeover of higher education institutions, etc., than African Americans or Hispanics could ever do, because of their higher IQs.

    These are not good and healthy developments, in my opinion:

    Obama Won’t Stay at Waldorf Astoria for U.N. Event; Security Concerns Are Cited

    The hotel’s owner, the Anbang Insurance Group, may not be a household name in China or the United States, but it is highly connected in China. Its chairman is the husband of the granddaughter of Deng Xiaoping, who was China’s leader from 1978 to 1992. Its board of directors includes Chen Xiaolu, a former officer in the People’s Liberation Army who is the son of Marshal Chen Yi, a revolutionary military commander who later served as foreign minister.
     
    - https://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/12/us/politics/white-house-spurns-waldorf-astoria-out-of-security-concerns.html?_r=0

    Buying influence...

    Largest Donors to Harvard No Longer Chinese

    http://www.asianphilanthropyforum.org/donor-harvard-chinese/

    American-Buddhist billionaires, who are most likely ethnically Jewish, are selling out to the Chinese http://www.unz.com/freed/iq-a-skeptics-view/#comment-1726637 :

    Linda Pritzker (born 1953) is an American lama in the Tibetan Buddhist tradition, author, and co-founder of the Namchak Foundation and Namchak Retreat Ranch in Missoula, Montana. She is a member of the Pritzker family, known for the Hyatt Hotel fortune, and is also known by the name Lama Tsomo.[3]
     
    - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linda_Pritzker

    Like the president, a rising number of international billionaires have begun to worry that backing the Dalai Lama could pose a risk to their personal wealth by potentially limiting access to lucrative markets in China. Years ago, before surging Asian industry became a force impossible to ignore, such fears were remote, if they existed at all, for the American super-rich. But now that the seat of financial power has started shifting eastward, patronage of the Dalai Lama can come at a considerable cost.
     
    - http://www.vanityfair.com/news/2011/07/harmonic-divergence-wealthy-dropping-the-dalai-lamas-name-literally
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  218. res says:
    @Santoculto
    Yes you're right I'm little suspicious. What is your ideology? Your nationality? Ethnicity? This way I will become knowledgeable about part of your intentions, or not.

    I think you're against IQ tests and their results specially to disprove racial differences in intelligence and specially when IQ prove whites are on disproportional avg smarter than blacks. Again, my suspicions can be wrong.

    Most of what I prefer call less polite way "IQdiots" are unaware about their own intentions and flaws. They think they are protected from cognitive dissonance, only on the left and religious on the right who can make ad hoc rationalizations about personal beliefs, after all "they are SCIENTIFIC WHITE 'MAAALE'"!!!

    Hbd truly believe they are protected from cognitive dissonance. None is totally and naturally safe. To fight against it is at daily basis (proxy to the wisdom).

    Hbd truly believe they are protected from cognitive dissonance. None is totally and naturally safe. To fight against it is at daily basis (proxy to the wisdom).

    Indeed (the 2nd and 3rd sentences at least). Hopefully you are self aware enough to realize this applies to you as well. Please be careful when assuming others aren’t that self aware.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Santoculto
    For sure.
    , @Santoculto
    Bear in mind most people simply never question themselves. They most time are congratulating themselves and reinforcing their own beliefs whatever factual or not and the bigger is the intelligence bigger will be these "rationalization" skills.

    People are faster and often brilliant to point out the flaws of other persons, rarely they do it with themselves. So the simple fact I have a solid consciousness about my limitations and mistakes already make me capable to judge fairly other people if I'm always judging myself instead congratulating myself.
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  219. Ryan says:

    Two important points:

    1. Every scientific notion is basically just a prediction. In the case of IQ the prediction goes something along these lines. Go to a school, find 100 kids with IQ’s around 100. Find another with IQ’s around 115. The second group of kids will learn more and get better grades. This prediction is as rock solid guaranteed to be true as predictions you find in physics or chemistry.

    2. An IQ test can only measure the general intelligence of the group of people it was normed against. There is no IQ test that is normed to test both Americans and Mexicans, and as such direct scientifically accurate comparisons of average intelligence are impossible. People try to proxy what the results of a proper test through various methods. It’s not reliable the way that actual IQ testing is, as evidenced by the fact that it doesn’t make rock solid verifiable predictions.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
    Your first point is well made but your second point I think only sounds sensible. Do you have any sources you would like to cite?

    My understanding is that the deficiencies in early IQ testing practice (classically the failure to realise that the low scores of many Jews in the early 20th century were a result of poor English literacy) have led to great efforts to create a culture fair test. It seems that Raven's Progressive Matrices meet at least a major part of that requirement by not requiring literacy. That just practising doing one even three times might risk madness or death by boredom doesn't seem to have been authoritatively commented on so I take the negative of that on trust. When you find that the test results correlate extremely well with all other g laden tests you conclude that you have a good test for mental speed, short term memory, working memory, pattern recognition and whatever that can be reasonably inferred to be the main requirements for good cognitive performance. There is, on this view, no reason to expect the latest culture free tests not to measure the same qualities in Chinese as in Nigerians

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  220. @res

    Hbd truly believe they are protected from cognitive dissonance. None is totally and naturally safe. To fight against it is at daily basis (proxy to the wisdom).
     
    Indeed (the 2nd and 3rd sentences at least). Hopefully you are self aware enough to realize this applies to you as well. Please be careful when assuming others aren't that self aware.

    For sure.

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  221. FKA Max says: • Website
    @res
    A good point about differing values of crime by group. Unfortunately, I don't see much data covering that.

    Thanks for supplying some links. Of those, only the second really seems to speak to group representation. I looked at the Google preview of Weisburd's book (pages 71-73) referenced in the article and the data there looks suggestive (I find the basic point convincing), but neither rigorous nor complete.

    Beyond that, I don't know about Jewish over representation in white collar crime (the FBI stats don't have that breakdown), but I will observe that if whites are roughly proportionally represented and Jews are over represented that implies non-Jewish whites are under represented (assuming almost all Jews are white). None of this changes the black over representation in the FBI stats though, but your point about low vs. high value crime is worthwhile and I'd like to see an analysis capturing that.

    I also think it is worth emphasizing that Asians are substantially under represented in the FBI white collar crime statistics--about one fourth of their population proportion.

    I also think it is worth emphasizing that Asians are substantially under represented in the FBI white collar crime statistics–about one fourth of their population proportion.

    This is true, but I think it can be explained by the fact, that most jobs, especially high-powered ones, in finance and in business in the U.S. are still currently held by Whites and Jews mostly. Once the percentage of Chinese-Americans increases as their share of the population, they will behave differently.

    I think if Asians/Chinese were more strongly represented at the higher levels of the finance and business communities in the U.S., we would probably see more of them commit high value/category white-collar crimes. One needs opportunity to commit these high value white-collar crimes.

    This is why I shared the paper about white-collar crime in Asia and in Japan above, which is a field not very well researched and understood, yet.

    High(er)-IQ Asians are smart enough to know, that it is not worth taking the risk of committing a white-collar crime if the payout is small. Blacks usually don’t think in terms of a risk-reward ratio when they commit crimes, in my experience.

    Also, even if some Blacks had access to the higher levels and positions of power within the financial and business sector in America, they would just not have high enough IQs to pull off big-scale ponzi schemes and cons à la Bernie Madoff, in my opinion.

    One needs opportunity AND ability (a high(er) IQ) to commit and pull off these high value white-collar crimes.

    Blacks’ lower average IQ prevents them from committing high value/high category types of white-collar crimes, in my opinion.

    This was actually my original point, that corrupt and sociopathic/psychopathic high(er)-IQ individuals/races can do a lot more damage than low(er)-IQ ones, in terms of financial damage caused by their crimes, etc., and many so-called “race realists” and IQists completely ignore this dynamic, or even welcome it, which really makes them Social Darwinists, in my opinion.

    There have been anecdotal reports that at least one UK bank was using a psychopathy measure to actively recruit psychopaths.[37]

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychopathy_in_the_workplace#Screening

    I think Social Darwinsts are dangerous.

    I personally believe Chinese immigration to the U.S. is a greater threat to America than Mexican immigration for example, precisely because of their high IQs and the high prevalence of the low-activity MAOA allele in their gene pool, which is associated with psychopathy/anti-social behavior: http://www.unz.com/freed/iq-a-skeptics-view/#comment-1725649

    I still do not want the Hispanic and Black populations in the U.S. to grow, because it is not good for the traditionally Northern European/Protestant culture and innovativeness of the country. This is why I support Planned Parenthood, want immigration to stop, and oppose amnesty, birthright citizenship and the Catholic Church [https://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/12/us/politics/white-house-spurns-waldorf-astoria-out-of-security-concerns.html?_r=0

    Buying influence…

    Largest Donors to Harvard No Longer Chinese

    http://www.asianphilanthropyforum.org/donor-harvard-chinese/

    American-Buddhist billionaires, who are most likely ethnically Jewish, are selling out to the Chinese http://www.unz.com/freed/iq-a-skeptics-view/#comment-1726637 :

    Linda Pritzker (born 1953) is an American lama in the Tibetan Buddhist tradition, author, and co-founder of the Namchak Foundation and Namchak Retreat Ranch in Missoula, Montana. She is a member of the Pritzker family, known for the Hyatt Hotel fortune, and is also known by the name Lama Tsomo.[3]

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linda_Pritzker

    Like the president, a rising number of international billionaires have begun to worry that backing the Dalai Lama could pose a risk to their personal wealth by potentially limiting access to lucrative markets in China. Years ago, before surging Asian industry became a force impossible to ignore, such fears were remote, if they existed at all, for the American super-rich. But now that the seat of financial power has started shifting eastward, patronage of the Dalai Lama can come at a considerable cost.

    http://www.vanityfair.com/news/2011/07/harmonic-divergence-wealthy-dropping-the-dalai-lamas-name-literally

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    • Replies: @res
    Good points. Thanks for a thoughtful discussion.
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  222. @res

    Hbd truly believe they are protected from cognitive dissonance. None is totally and naturally safe. To fight against it is at daily basis (proxy to the wisdom).
     
    Indeed (the 2nd and 3rd sentences at least). Hopefully you are self aware enough to realize this applies to you as well. Please be careful when assuming others aren't that self aware.

    Bear in mind most people simply never question themselves. They most time are congratulating themselves and reinforcing their own beliefs whatever factual or not and the bigger is the intelligence bigger will be these “rationalization” skills.

    People are faster and often brilliant to point out the flaws of other persons, rarely they do it with themselves. So the simple fact I have a solid consciousness about my limitations and mistakes already make me capable to judge fairly other people if I’m always judging myself instead congratulating myself.

    Read More
    • Replies: @res
    I tend to agree with this (and the correlation between intelligence and "rationalization" skills is an excellent point). I'm mainly noting that judging groups (especially blanket judgments, all ...) can be a problem. It's also good to retain some humility when attempting to judge others (sometimes I'm not as good about this as I would like).
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  223. Rich says:
    @Wizard of Oz
    @Rich

    I'm not refusing anything except to humour a dolt. Your question is infantile.

    There is no such thing as "a separate test of Ashkenazi IQ" as you would know if you knew anything about the subject you purport to discuss.

    Your objection to "estimates" is equally outlandish. An IQ measure is itself an estimate in the sense of approximation or indication of various human attributes or combinations of attributes and/or potential. You seem to be forgetting that you started asking a question, which if it embodied any clear thinking by you, was about the evidence that Ashkenazi Jews (though you wandered off into a rabbit hole inhabited by "Israelis" at one stage) scored on average, or would if any large group of them were tested score, substantially higher than other ethnic groups. Alternatively you seem to be denying a connection between their high IQ scores and significant achievement requiring high cognitive ability. I take it that you have abandoned your ridiculous suggestion that winning disproportionate numbers of Nobel Prizes for physics, chemistry, medicine and economics is no evidence of superior average cognitive ability??? So perhaps now you just want to know why one should suppose a randomly selected large group of Ashkenazi Jews would probably score as much as 0.7 sds above the North European average. And there is the difficulty that, if you are not trolling, you just can't understand La Griffe's reasoning. Well, if you aren't trolling and you genuinely want to understand I REPEAT that you should email Griffe and Steve Sailer who probably have a Psychometrics for Dummies package ready to hand out to people who need their hands held. If you can't be bothered to do that I assume you are just trolling and I can't be bothered to do your homework or engage tutors for you.

    Well, even though you’re probably the biggest fanboy of the Ashkenazi that I’ve ever come across in my life, you’ve finally admitted that there is no actual proof of Ashkenazi IQ superiority. I won’t go into why some Ashkenazi may have won political awards or may be over-represented in certain fields, obviously that would be beyond your ability to understand. I grew up in Queens and Long Island and I’ve never even met a Jew who was as crazy as you about Ashkenazi intelligence, it’s really weird. But at least, after many responses, you’ve admitted the truth. There is no IQ test that shows Ashkenazi score higher than any other Europeans.

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    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
    I think you are probably too stupid to lie, but, still, why do you have to expose yourself so nakedly? I have NOT admitted that there is "no actual proof of Ashkenazi IQ superiority". The reverse is true and indeed I would go further and say that, if the proposition "Average Ashkenazi IQ is between 0.5 and 1.1 SDs above the white American average" were litigated the evidence of expert witnesses and of multiple IQ and near equivalent g-loaded tests would result in the court finding the proposition proved (and not just "on the balance of probabilities" but "beyond reasonable doubt" as in a criminal trial).

    Maybe your problem is that you haven't given any thought to the concepts of evidence or proof.

    As to you final falsehood that I have "admitted" that "there is no IQ test that shows Ashkenazi score higher than any other Europeans" it is hard to believe that you are so stupid as to believe that others can't check and see that I have (a) said that EVERY g loaded test shows that, and (b) pointed out that if you are genuinely interested in the literature on the subject which would discuss, inter alia, the numerous actual test results, you would write to Steve Sailer or La Griffe du Lion - or, I might have said, just about any professor of psychology in your country.
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  224. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer

    Great blogpost. Exactly (part of) my issues with this HBD/IQ cult.
    I have strong faith that much of this psychometric pseudoscience will be destroyed by a proper biological and neurological of intelligence, and so called g. And even though I expect genetic data to show differences between populations, I expect the maximal differences to be much smaller than those posited by HBD cultists, and expect microgroups (for example Russian-French) to vary as much in IQ as macrogroups (so called races of Caucasoid etc.).

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    • Replies: @Santoculto
    "Russians" are already a reasonably mixed people. Ethnic Slavic Russians maybe will varies less with French people than "Russians", I mean all people with Russian nationality.
    , @Wizard of Oz
    OYou are preaching to the choir in your last remarks or, to change the metaphor, late to jump on to the wagon.

    It is a commonplace, true but barely relevant response of the ultra egalitarians that there is more IQ difference within one large population than there is between popuĺations.

    And I think you are out of date in criticising what I think can fairly be said to be naive belief in the validity of Lynn and Vanhenen's figures as indicating the more or less permanent genetic differences. Many of us didn't take that interpretation of the figures seriously and Ron Unz's demolition job of several years ago should be familiar to you.

    I am an enthusiast (entirely amateur and in no way expert) about what has been emerging from neuroscience over the last 30 years, and where it will take us. But I don't think it is going to help confirm or dispel your prejudices. Obviously gross disabilities are likely to show up both in brain scans and IQ tests but it is very unlikely that the workings of the brain will ever be observed so precisely that one could say "Aha! No trouble in seeing there who could solve that differential equation in his head correctly and quickly". Intelligence testing for the forseeable future will require performance tests including ones validated by factor analysis and multivariate correlations with no immediate practical import; e.g. IQ tests.

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  225. @Anonymous
    Great blogpost. Exactly (part of) my issues with this HBD/IQ cult.
    I have strong faith that much of this psychometric pseudoscience will be destroyed by a proper biological and neurological of intelligence, and so called g. And even though I expect genetic data to show differences between populations, I expect the maximal differences to be much smaller than those posited by HBD cultists, and expect microgroups (for example Russian-French) to vary as much in IQ as macrogroups (so called races of Caucasoid etc.).

    “Russians” are already a reasonably mixed people. Ethnic Slavic Russians maybe will varies less with French people than “Russians”, I mean all people with Russian nationality.

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  226. @Anon

    There is no such thing as “a separate test of Ashkenazi IQ” as you would know if you knew anything about the subject you purport to discuss.

     

    For those of us who don't know anything about the subject, why not? Can't you get a randomly selected group of a couple of hundred or thousand Ashkenazim, ditto Sephardim, ditto Mizrahim, controlling for income, in say the Tel Aviv area, and give them all IQ tests? It would be expensive, but why unfeasible?

    Indeed you are right but you missed the word “separate” which the irritating fool used. While I realise, on the one hand, that his language and logic are so loose that he may not mean what he appears to say I am not willing to go fossicking in the rabbit warren of his mind and verbiage to try and create a sensible question to answer. Life’s too short, or at least my patience is.

    Ashkenazi Jews on average score high on every g related test from Wechsler (successive versions) to Stanford-Binet to Cattell and Raven’s Progressive Matrices plus SAT, Field Medals, Nobel Prizes, memberships of scientific academies, professorships in math and the hard (actually all) sciences, success in legal practice, competitive chess and a thousand other activities where the smart do better than the dim.

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    • Replies: @AaronB
    Jews are incredibly ambitious. I'm sure we both know the incredible, almost insane, pressure within the Jewish community to succeed, and the rather one-dimensional understanding of the word success - i.e any kind of 'recognition', whether wealth or status, however gained. The thing is to be 'recognized', or amass wealth.

    I'm sure you're also quite familiar with the immense social pressure brought to bear for the molding of each young Jew into a vehicle for 'success' - the mockery, the sarcasm, the withdrawal of affection - even attention - by parents or other significant others, the early training for an attitude of arrogance and authoritarian narcissism, the ceaseless competition and comparisons within families and the community at large.

    It all adds up to a rather pathological brew, the foremost victims of which are of course the 'elite' Jews themselves, few of whom derive any satisfaction from life or know how to be happy and find themselves driven by a relentless demon from whom they can find no peace.

    My point is - how much of Jewish accomplishment do you believe is just posturing and aggressive social tactics designed to elicit recognition from people not suffering from a similarly pathological need to be recognized? In other words, people who "care" intensely are better positioned to extract social recognition - perhaps unearned - from people who simply don't "care" quite as much?

    I am sure you are aware that Jewish "accomplishment" is far, far in excess of anything indicated by their IQ scores. IQ scores simply cannot explain the level of Jewish 'success'.

    And secondly, although its beyond doubt that average Jewish intelligence is higher than Europeans in at least some fields (primarily verbal, although its quite a bit lower in spatial, which is important to some kinds of mathematics and of course all artistic endeavors. Jewish IQ is higher in math, but not enormously so) is accounted for by this incredible and immense drive to attain success and recognition?

    Of course, what I am asking is a more general question, which I have asked before - how much of IQ is simply ambition?

    Quite a bit, I'd wager. Certainly not all, but certainly far more than is generally let on.
    , @Santoculto
    They excel in the noble art of lies, the smurder also tend to be "good" to do, isn't?
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  227. MarkinLA says:
    @dropingin
    Discreet details from "scientific" studies and concocted theories tend to loose sight of the greater truth.

    This whole IQ argument is being used as a manufactured justification for one race or "group" to feel vindicated for exploiting the hell out of and stealing from other human beings. The IQ arguments are all about separation (discrimination) for the sake of institutionalizing the fantasy and lie that various individual's possess inherent overall "superiority" over others. Societies that are not stuck in the individual's rights (and the rights of their possessions) reigning supreme recognize that for Human's to actually keep progressing it is an entire group endeavor and all accomplishments of anyone are only made possible by the integrity and presence of the entire group. The collective consciousness is not a myth. In addition, We all stand on the shoulders of those who came before and none of what we do do would be possible without those antecedents.

    It is too much to expect that "supremacists" of every ilk will acknowledge:

    A species is not about the individuals of which it is made up (or their individual accomplishments or thoughts/ideas),
    AND
    Biology is only an element of what makes Humans Human.

    This whole IQ argument is being used as a manufactured justification for one race or “group” to feel vindicated for exploiting the hell out of and stealing from other human beings.

    To some yes. To others it is for the purpose of getting the government to stop this useless nonsense of trying to put square pegs in round holes.

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  228. @Anonymous
    Great blogpost. Exactly (part of) my issues with this HBD/IQ cult.
    I have strong faith that much of this psychometric pseudoscience will be destroyed by a proper biological and neurological of intelligence, and so called g. And even though I expect genetic data to show differences between populations, I expect the maximal differences to be much smaller than those posited by HBD cultists, and expect microgroups (for example Russian-French) to vary as much in IQ as macrogroups (so called races of Caucasoid etc.).

    OYou are preaching to the choir in your last remarks or, to change the metaphor, late to jump on to the wagon.

    It is a commonplace, true but barely relevant response of the ultra egalitarians that there is more IQ difference within one large population than there is between popuĺations.

    And I think you are out of date in criticising what I think can fairly be said to be naive belief in the validity of Lynn and Vanhenen’s figures as indicating the more or less permanent genetic differences. Many of us didn’t take that interpretation of the figures seriously and Ron Unz’s demolition job of several years ago should be familiar to you.

    I am an enthusiast (entirely amateur and in no way expert) about what has been emerging from neuroscience over the last 30 years, and where it will take us. But I don’t think it is going to help confirm or dispel your prejudices. Obviously gross disabilities are likely to show up both in brain scans and IQ tests but it is very unlikely that the workings of the brain will ever be observed so precisely that one could say “Aha! No trouble in seeing there who could solve that differential equation in his head correctly and quickly”. Intelligence testing for the forseeable future will require performance tests including ones validated by factor analysis and multivariate correlations with no immediate practical import; e.g. IQ tests.

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  229. @utu
    "People often talk of the Bell Curve as if there is only one. But it often makes sense to think of several, even if thete are fuzzy overlaps. Thus one for Brahmins in India perhaps, one for Dalits and many more. "

    A sum of two normal random variables is not normal. So if the Bell Curve of the sum is Gaussian, the Bell Curves of the components cannot be Gaussian and vice versa.

    As I have said in my reply to res I don’t think you are disagreeing with me. But???

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  230. @dropingin
    Discreet details from "scientific" studies and concocted theories tend to loose sight of the greater truth.

    This whole IQ argument is being used as a manufactured justification for one race or "group" to feel vindicated for exploiting the hell out of and stealing from other human beings. The IQ arguments are all about separation (discrimination) for the sake of institutionalizing the fantasy and lie that various individual's possess inherent overall "superiority" over others. Societies that are not stuck in the individual's rights (and the rights of their possessions) reigning supreme recognize that for Human's to actually keep progressing it is an entire group endeavor and all accomplishments of anyone are only made possible by the integrity and presence of the entire group. The collective consciousness is not a myth. In addition, We all stand on the shoulders of those who came before and none of what we do do would be possible without those antecedents.

    It is too much to expect that "supremacists" of every ilk will acknowledge:

    A species is not about the individuals of which it is made up (or their individual accomplishments or thoughts/ideas),
    AND
    Biology is only an element of what makes Humans Human.

    Isn’t it largely a reaction to the humbug aspects of affirmative action?

    After all that encompasses the myth (if it is) that African-Americans only need lots of solicitous help for a generation or two to be able to cope withthe cognitive demands of the modern world as well as any other group, the unjustified discrimination against whites that AA can involve, and the cost of ineffective programs to the taxpayer.

    What authors and wtitings do you accuse of justifying your interpretation?

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  231. @Rich
    Well, even though you're probably the biggest fanboy of the Ashkenazi that I've ever come across in my life, you've finally admitted that there is no actual proof of Ashkenazi IQ superiority. I won't go into why some Ashkenazi may have won political awards or may be over-represented in certain fields, obviously that would be beyond your ability to understand. I grew up in Queens and Long Island and I've never even met a Jew who was as crazy as you about Ashkenazi intelligence, it's really weird. But at least, after many responses, you've admitted the truth. There is no IQ test that shows Ashkenazi score higher than any other Europeans.

    I think you are probably too stupid to lie, but, still, why do you have to expose yourself so nakedly? I have NOT admitted that there is “no actual proof of Ashkenazi IQ superiority”. The reverse is true and indeed I would go further and say that, if the proposition “Average Ashkenazi IQ is between 0.5 and 1.1 SDs above the white American average” were litigated the evidence of expert witnesses and of multiple IQ and near equivalent g-loaded tests would result in the court finding the proposition proved (and not just “on the balance of probabilities” but “beyond reasonable doubt” as in a criminal trial).

    Maybe your problem is that you haven’t given any thought to the concepts of evidence or proof.

    As to you final falsehood that I have “admitted” that “there is no IQ test that shows Ashkenazi score higher than any other Europeans” it is hard to believe that you are so stupid as to believe that others can’t check and see that I have (a) said that EVERY g loaded test shows that, and (b) pointed out that if you are genuinely interested in the literature on the subject which would discuss, inter alia, the numerous actual test results, you would write to Steve Sailer or La Griffe du Lion – or, I might have said, just about any professor of psychology in your country.

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    • Replies: @Santoculto
    The crucial question would be:

    How important is spatial IQ to compose performance IQ?

    And IQ tests also measure working memory, strategic thinking, is not?

    If ashkenazis score around 110 on verbal and math but 95 in spatial they will have similar avgs on performance with Europeans and east Asians. When people say "ashkenazis score 110... The smartest human 'race'" they are using "only" verb and arithmetic skills and forgetting spatial IQ.
    , @Rich
    Again with the personal attacks. Very childish. I thought you admitted that there is no separate IQ test that shows actual Ashkenazi IQ test scores. If such a test exists, produce it. You can't, so you ramble on, trying to find something different to argue about.
    There are many reasons, other than IQ, that the ethnic group you appear to worship might be over-represented in certain fields, but you seem unable to comprehend that. It's okay, sometimes lower IQ people have difficulty with comprehension.
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  232. Ivy says:
    @Ned2
    Everyone knows the Irishman's IQ rises dramatically after the consumption of six to eight pints of Guinness.

    Don’t forget the potato, makes a seven course meal with a six pack.

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  233. @FKA Max

    I’m curious how any SAT test would show the disparity since neither religion nor ethnicity is given when the SAT is taken, only race.
     
    There are actually some average SAT scores recorded by religious affiliation of the test takers. Unitarians and Quakers had higher scores than Jews one year, but just barely:

    Arthur Hu has the 1990 average SAT scores by religion and by race. Note that scores averaged about 100 points lower than today before "recentering" in mid-1995. The two letter prefixes refer to race (Wh = white, AS = Asian, Al = All, etc.). In this, white Episcopalians barely outscored black Unitarians, and were 60 points behind Jews.

    Race Religion Number Math + Verbal SAT
    Wh Unitarian 1,745 1073
    Wh Quaker 894 1037
    Wh Judaism 25,600 1030 * Jewish Avg
    Al Quaker 1,009 1029
    [...]
    And here's a 2002 report on high SAT scoring groups from Gene Expression: Average SAT score by religion for 2002, average ~1000, about 40% of each students take it
    Unitarian-Universalists 1209
    Judaism 1161
    Quakers 1153
     
    - http://isteve.blogspot.com/2009/10/episcopalians-v-jews-on-iq.html

    Money talks when it comes to the SATs, in my opinion. Asians, and I assume Jews and other wealthy groups as well, hire expensive and experienced tutors to help them/their kids prepare for the test. Also Asians, and I assume Jews and other wealthy groups, take the test several times, not just once, and usually do better on their second or third attempt. A poor smart kid, whatever his or her ethnicity/religion, who can't afford to take the test several times, is at a disadvantage here, and it skews the test results in favor of wealthier religious and ethnic groups; when they might in fact not be smarter, but just can afford to dedicate more time and resources towards achieving higher SAT scores:

    On the Asian rise: I live in California. It is impossible to understand what people like me mean by “Asian test prep” unless you live in one of the areas where it exists. So unless you see “SAT academies” on every street corner, sometimes 3 to a building, and realize that each of those business is selling a minimum of 50-70 hours of test prep per kid, it might be difficult to understand. Kaplan has largely disappeared in my neck of the woods. Whites in my area are doing far, far less test prep.
     
    - http://www.unz.com/freed/iq-a-skeptics-view/#comment-1728574

    Also there is cheating...

    Law-enforcement officials in this country say that highly organized rings of college-admission-exams imposters—once considered a unique artifact of the high-stakes, test-driven Chinese education system—have arrived on U.S. shores.

    – http://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2016/03/how-sophisticated-test-scams-from-china-are-making-their-way-into-the-us/474474/
     
    - http://www.unz.com/isteve/sat-scandal/#comment-1544526

    Jews and the Chinese seem to be equally ambitious and competitive, some might even call it cunning. Interestingly, the two groups/races seem to have comparable IQs and seem to be carrying the low-activity 3-repeat MAOA allele at very similar rates:

    Jews (2R 1.3%; 3R 62%) carry low-activity MAOA at much higher rates than Whites (2R 0.2%; 3R 36%): http://theunsilencedscience.blogspot.com/2013/01/monoamine-oxidase-bibliography.html Low-activity MAOA is associated with higher levels of aggressiveness and risk-taking
     
    - http://www.unz.com/freed/iq-a-skeptics-view/#comment-1726637

    Low MAO-A activity is associated with a significantly increased risk of aggressive and antisocial behavior.[100][102][103][104]
     
    - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychopathy#Genetic

    As both authors belong to one of the above groups and coming from an immigrant family, namely Chua being Chinese and Rubenfeld being Jewish, Chua further claims that “Chinese Americans are three generations behind the Jews” as both Jewish Americans and Chinese Americans share lots of similar behaviors like being instructed to learn how to play a musical instrument when they were little and encouraged to become a doctor, teacher or a lawyer.
     
    - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Triple_Package#Methodology

    I think you point to evidence that sanguine hopes for testing that couldn’t be prepared for were bound to be disappointed. But I recall that Eysenck wrote in favour of England’s 11 plus tests for entry to grammar schools – possibly as early as the 50s – but made it clear that he thought fairness would be assured by giving the test three times so as to virtually eliminate the coaching effect. (Pity about the smart kids who got bored doing the same sort of stuff three times!). I am a bit sceptical about Raven’s Progressiv Matrices really being a good universal IQ test but would have to agree that only a limited amount of coaching or repetitions of the test would be likely to boost scores.

    In the context of coaching and cramming effects that you have brought up it interests me that the generally quoted figure of 115 for average Ashkenazi IQ of 20 years ago became more like 112 by the time La Griffe wrote the piece I linked above. And the wider recognition of the Flynn Effect is another reason for being sceptical about any claims to precision.

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    • Replies: @FKA Max
    This is the most realistic assessment of Jewish IQ/intelligence I have come across so far in the IQist-sphere:


    Given such a wide range of scores, it’s fascinating to ask what the overall Jewish IQ is. Averaging across all six subtests, Jewish Americans outperformed U.S. whites by 0.12 SD. Converting that into a composite IQ requires knowing the intercorrelations of the subtests, however on a comparable battery of tests (the WISC-R), someone who averages +0.12 SD across all the subtests has a composite score that is +0.13 SD, equating to a full-scale IQ of 102.

    This is substantially lower than the U.S. Jewish mean of 110 commonly cited by Richard Lynn. Of course it depends on the test. If one goes by tests like the SAT, which are all about verbal and math talent, Jews should easily score 110, but on a more comprehensive global sample of intellectual abilities, it seems U.S. Jews are virtually tied with U.S. whites.
    [...]

    Why did Jews struggle to adapt for so long, and then suddenly start thriving economically and culturally? Is this because Jews only recently evolved their high IQs as scholars Cochran and Harpending argued, or did their genes stay the same, while the environment suddenly began to favour their specific cognitive talents (verbal and math)? Spatial IQ might be useful for building a civilization, but once the buildings and technology is built by others, wordsmiths and math types rule the roost.
     
    - https://pumpkinperson.com/2016/08/26/excellent-data-on-jewish-iq-raises-more-questions-than-it-answers/

    He ended up revising his, in my opinion, very good and realistic estimate up again, because some people criticized him:

    In my last post I cited excellent data showing Jewish Americans have a math IQ of 113, a verbal IQ of 109, a processing speed IQ of 100, a grammar IQ of 100, a memory IQ of 96, and a spatial IQ of 93. I crudely estimated that a composite score of all of these abilities would yield an IQ of 102.

    However I was criticised for giving all of these abilities equal weight, when some are better measures of intelligence than others.
    [...]
    A full-scale IQ of 107 is 7 points above the white means and is probably a good estimate for Jewish IQ. High enough to partly explain their wealth, influence and scholarship, but low enough to explain their somewhat smaller brains and dark Caucasoid ancestry.
     
    - https://pumpkinperson.com/2016/08/28/follow-up-on-jewish-iq/comment-page-1/

    I in turn criticized him for that. I commented as commenter ``Guest 101'':


    You generally do great research, but then there are instances, where you seem irrational, biased, or naive. Your latest article on Jewish intelligence https://pumpkinperson.com/2016/08/26/excellent-data-on-jewish-iq-raises-more-questions-than-it-answers/ was great, but then you revised your finding of a likely and realistic Jewish Ashkenazi IQ of 102 up to 107 !? Why didn’t you stick to your guns, and kept the reasonable equal weighting on the six subtests !?

    ” … it is inconsistent with the incredible scientific achievements of Jews throughout the 20th century.” I recommend for you to read the following paper: JEWISH INTELLECTUAL SUPREMACISM: A REFUTATION by Andrew Ryan and Peter J. White https://thechosenites.files.wordpress.com/2013/12/refutation.pdf

    And watch this Youtube video: Albert Einstein, Karl Marx and Sigmund Freud Exposed! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y4v-OuwdW6U

    Jewish media/publishing, lobbying, and networking are a huge factor to consider when it comes to ”the incredible scientific [etc.] achievements of Jews throughout the 20th century.” You don’t seem to do that. Why !?
     
    - https://pumpkinperson.com/2016/08/29/big-brained-black-billionaire/#comment-32754
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  234. AaronB says:
    @Wizard of Oz
    Indeed you are right but you missed the word "separate" which the irritating fool used. While I realise, on the one hand, that his language and logic are so loose that he may not mean what he appears to say I am not willing to go fossicking in the rabbit warren of his mind and verbiage to try and create a sensible question to answer. Life's too short, or at least my patience is.

    Ashkenazi Jews on average score high on every g related test from Wechsler (successive versions) to Stanford-Binet to Cattell and Raven's Progressive Matrices plus SAT, Field Medals, Nobel Prizes, memberships of scientific academies, professorships in math and the hard (actually all) sciences, success in legal practice, competitive chess and a thousand other activities where the smart do better than the dim.

    Jews are incredibly ambitious. I’m sure we both know the incredible, almost insane, pressure within the Jewish community to succeed, and the rather one-dimensional understanding of the word success – i.e any kind of ‘recognition’, whether wealth or status, however gained. The thing is to be ‘recognized’, or amass wealth.

    I’m sure you’re also quite familiar with the immense social pressure brought to bear for the molding of each young Jew into a vehicle for ‘success’ – the mockery, the sarcasm, the withdrawal of affection – even attention – by parents or other significant others, the early training for an attitude of arrogance and authoritarian narcissism, the ceaseless competition and comparisons within families and the community at large.

    It all adds up to a rather pathological brew, the foremost victims of which are of course the ‘elite’ Jews themselves, few of whom derive any satisfaction from life or know how to be happy and find themselves driven by a relentless demon from whom they can find no peace.

    My point is – how much of Jewish accomplishment do you believe is just posturing and aggressive social tactics designed to elicit recognition from people not suffering from a similarly pathological need to be recognized? In other words, people who “care” intensely are better positioned to extract social recognition – perhaps unearned – from people who simply don’t “care” quite as much?

    I am sure you are aware that Jewish “accomplishment” is far, far in excess of anything indicated by their IQ scores. IQ scores simply cannot explain the level of Jewish ‘success’.

    And secondly, although its beyond doubt that average Jewish intelligence is higher than Europeans in at least some fields (primarily verbal, although its quite a bit lower in spatial, which is important to some kinds of mathematics and of course all artistic endeavors. Jewish IQ is higher in math, but not enormously so) is accounted for by this incredible and immense drive to attain success and recognition?

    Of course, what I am asking is a more general question, which I have asked before – how much of IQ is simply ambition?

    Quite a bit, I’d wager. Certainly not all, but certainly far more than is generally let on.

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    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
    I'm not in a position to dispute your general thesis though I think there is predictable attenuation of effort and drive over the years. A Chinese (Australian) accountant of my acquaintance (whose daughter had just won a scholarship to one of the most academic private girls schools) told me that he worked with Jewish partners who lamented the apparent loss of ambition in their children - mostly boys I guess!

    I have been known to make a remark which is probably better to leave Jews to make, as they certainly might, namely that they tend to be better as art dealers than artists. Yes, it is not spatial ability that they were selected for though it is interesting to note that the remarkable Benoit Mandelbrot was Jewish. But you are wrong I think in saying their achievement cannot be predicted from or correlated with their IQ. As I posted recently I made a calculation over 10 years ago of what you would expect of Jews in cognitively demanding occupations where you wanted people to have an IQ of 140 or 145 on the assumption of 115 average and sd about 15. It worked very well though I might have left out proper consideration of Jews in academe where Ron Unz's work would suggest that Jewish networking in the Ivies distorts the figures. Likewise perhaps on Wall Street. As a sidenote I was interested to find in Jim Collins great books "Built to Last" and "Great to Good" that Jews weren't notably overrepresented amongst successful non-financial CEOs. I see there is now "Great by Choice" from him. I shall get it. It could well more Wall Street oriented judging by the blurb.
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  235. @Ryan
    Two important points:

    1. Every scientific notion is basically just a prediction. In the case of IQ the prediction goes something along these lines. Go to a school, find 100 kids with IQ's around 100. Find another with IQ's around 115. The second group of kids will learn more and get better grades. This prediction is as rock solid guaranteed to be true as predictions you find in physics or chemistry.

    2. An IQ test can only measure the general intelligence of the group of people it was normed against. There is no IQ test that is normed to test both Americans and Mexicans, and as such direct scientifically accurate comparisons of average intelligence are impossible. People try to proxy what the results of a proper test through various methods. It's not reliable the way that actual IQ testing is, as evidenced by the fact that it doesn't make rock solid verifiable predictions.

    Your first point is well made but your second point I think only sounds sensible. Do you have any sources you would like to cite?

    My understanding is that the deficiencies in early IQ testing practice (classically the failure to realise that the low scores of many Jews in the early 20th century were a result of poor English literacy) have led to great efforts to create a culture fair test. It seems that Raven’s Progressive Matrices meet at least a major part of that requirement by not requiring literacy. That just practising doing one even three times might risk madness or death by boredom doesn’t seem to have been authoritatively commented on so I take the negative of that on trust. When you find that the test results correlate extremely well with all other g laden tests you conclude that you have a good test for mental speed, short term memory, working memory, pattern recognition and whatever that can be reasonably inferred to be the main requirements for good cognitive performance. There is, on this view, no reason to expect the latest culture free tests not to measure the same qualities in Chinese as in Nigerians

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    • Replies: @AaronB
    "culture free test" - rather a fantasy, that. What about the culture of ambition.

    The Ravens is often seen as culture free, but is also most prone to the Flynn Effect.

    In a subtle but obvious way, the Ravens is clearly the least culture free, as exposure to modern techno-culture seems to dramatically affect scores.

    There is no such thing as a g laden test, however the concept is beloved by psycometricians - g is derived from the tendency to do well on all IQ subtests. Any single subtest seen in isolation cannot yield g, a statistical abstract of performance on multiple tests. The whole point of g is that it cannot 'reside' in any one test, but is derived from multiple tests.

    Moreover, since differences in sub-factor performance can be enormous, g cannot have the significance attributed to it (some people can have more than a standard deviation difference between sub-tests - some g!)

    People are famously confused by g, and reading the entire psycomwtricians literature will do little to clear it up. One suspects we are being had.

    At this late date, one can only conclude that psycometricians are, if not exactly idiots, at least controlled by emotion and caprured by ideolofy to some significant extent.

    The logical ommissions, the simplistic interpretations, the selective use of facts are so many and so obvious by the IQ pushers it's increasingly difficult to see it as anything other than a cult.

    Anyways, this stuff is just whistling in the wind - believers are gonna believe, and those capable of skepticism will notice inconvenient facts, and never the twain shall meet. So I'll shut up now.
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  236. @AaronB
    Jews are incredibly ambitious. I'm sure we both know the incredible, almost insane, pressure within the Jewish community to succeed, and the rather one-dimensional understanding of the word success - i.e any kind of 'recognition', whether wealth or status, however gained. The thing is to be 'recognized', or amass wealth.

    I'm sure you're also quite familiar with the immense social pressure brought to bear for the molding of each young Jew into a vehicle for 'success' - the mockery, the sarcasm, the withdrawal of affection - even attention - by parents or other significant others, the early training for an attitude of arrogance and authoritarian narcissism, the ceaseless competition and comparisons within families and the community at large.

    It all adds up to a rather pathological brew, the foremost victims of which are of course the 'elite' Jews themselves, few of whom derive any satisfaction from life or know how to be happy and find themselves driven by a relentless demon from whom they can find no peace.

    My point is - how much of Jewish accomplishment do you believe is just posturing and aggressive social tactics designed to elicit recognition from people not suffering from a similarly pathological need to be recognized? In other words, people who "care" intensely are better positioned to extract social recognition - perhaps unearned - from people who simply don't "care" quite as much?

    I am sure you are aware that Jewish "accomplishment" is far, far in excess of anything indicated by their IQ scores. IQ scores simply cannot explain the level of Jewish 'success'.

    And secondly, although its beyond doubt that average Jewish intelligence is higher than Europeans in at least some fields (primarily verbal, although its quite a bit lower in spatial, which is important to some kinds of mathematics and of course all artistic endeavors. Jewish IQ is higher in math, but not enormously so) is accounted for by this incredible and immense drive to attain success and recognition?

    Of course, what I am asking is a more general question, which I have asked before - how much of IQ is simply ambition?

    Quite a bit, I'd wager. Certainly not all, but certainly far more than is generally let on.

    I’m not in a position to dispute your general thesis though I think there is predictable attenuation of effort and drive over the years. A Chinese (Australian) accountant of my acquaintance (whose daughter had just won a scholarship to one of the most academic private girls schools) told me that he worked with Jewish partners who lamented the apparent loss of ambition in their children – mostly boys I guess!

    I have been known to make a remark which is probably better to leave Jews to make, as they certainly might, namely that they tend to be better as art dealers than artists. Yes, it is not spatial ability that they were selected for though it is interesting to note that the remarkable Benoit Mandelbrot was Jewish. But you are wrong I think in saying their achievement cannot be predicted from or correlated with their IQ. As I posted recently I made a calculation over 10 years ago of what you would expect of Jews in cognitively demanding occupations where you wanted people to have an IQ of 140 or 145 on the assumption of 115 average and sd about 15. It worked very well though I might have left out proper consideration of Jews in academe where Ron Unz’s work would suggest that Jewish networking in the Ivies distorts the figures. Likewise perhaps on Wall Street. As a sidenote I was interested to find in Jim Collins great books “Built to Last” and “Great to Good” that Jews weren’t notably overrepresented amongst successful non-financial CEOs. I see there is now “Great by Choice” from him. I shall get it. It could well more Wall Street oriented judging by the blurb.

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    • Replies: @AaronB
    Ron Unz has documented the decline in Jewish ambition as measured by the winning of fewer and fewer 'prestige' prizes like Fields, etc - Jews are barely represented these days. Its a quite telling confirmation that ambition is the elephant in the room we are all ignoring when we talk about group achievement, but no one seems to have made that connection.

    There are something like 4.5 times as many white gentiles with IQ above 140 than Jews - that doesn't tally with the actual representation of Jews in elite occupations, institutions, etc.

    Does it really make sense to you that Jews dominate Hollywood? Capable white gentile directors and producers simply can't be found? It doesn't, and we both know something else is going on.

    Having grown up in the Jewish community in Brooklyn NY, I have a little feeling I know what that something is. I'm pretty sure you do too.

    There's been a tremendous and widely acknowledged decline in the intellectual life of the US during the era of Jewish ascendancy. Read almost any book published before WW2, and the difference in quality is palpable. And standards in elite universities have become a joke precisely during the era of Jewish rise.

    I don't know what's going in, but it is very strange that Jews are supposed to have risen to the top because of genuine merit, yet this coincides with a massive decline in quality across all intellectual fields.

    Shouldn't the opposite be the case? Shouldn't Jewish dominated Harvard have more rigorous academic standards than ever? Shouldn't books written today be so much better? Shouldn't the post-war era of Jewish ascendancy have ushered in a period of dazzling cultural efflorescence greater than anything WASPs were ever capable of?

    The country as a whole doesn't seem to be doing too well on any level since the introduction of the new "meritocracy".

    We are discovering that tactics - honed over centuries - that allowed outsiders to wrest position and prestige for themselves, often unfairly, from an alien majority, aren't really that effective for genuine leadership, intellectual or otherwise. It's as if filling one ecological niche for centuries can make you unfit for other roles when you find yourself. perhaps to your own surprise, occupying them.
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  237. AaronB says:
    @Wizard of Oz
    Your first point is well made but your second point I think only sounds sensible. Do you have any sources you would like to cite?

    My understanding is that the deficiencies in early IQ testing practice (classically the failure to realise that the low scores of many Jews in the early 20th century were a result of poor English literacy) have led to great efforts to create a culture fair test. It seems that Raven's Progressive Matrices meet at least a major part of that requirement by not requiring literacy. That just practising doing one even three times might risk madness or death by boredom doesn't seem to have been authoritatively commented on so I take the negative of that on trust. When you find that the test results correlate extremely well with all other g laden tests you conclude that you have a good test for mental speed, short term memory, working memory, pattern recognition and whatever that can be reasonably inferred to be the main requirements for good cognitive performance. There is, on this view, no reason to expect the latest culture free tests not to measure the same qualities in Chinese as in Nigerians

    “culture free test” – rather a fantasy, that. What about the culture of ambition.

    The Ravens is often seen as culture free, but is also most prone to the Flynn Effect.

    In a subtle but obvious way, the Ravens is clearly the least culture free, as exposure to modern techno-culture seems to dramatically affect scores.

    There is no such thing as a g laden test, however the concept is beloved by psycometricians – g is derived from the tendency to do well on all IQ subtests. Any single subtest seen in isolation cannot yield g, a statistical abstract of performance on multiple tests. The whole point of g is that it cannot ‘reside’ in any one test, but is derived from multiple tests.

    Moreover, since differences in sub-factor performance can be enormous, g cannot have the significance attributed to it (some people can have more than a standard deviation difference between sub-tests – some g!)

    People are famously confused by g, and reading the entire psycomwtricians literature will do little to clear it up. One suspects we are being had.

    At this late date, one can only conclude that psycometricians are, if not exactly idiots, at least controlled by emotion and caprured by ideolofy to some significant extent.

    The logical ommissions, the simplistic interpretations, the selective use of facts are so many and so obvious by the IQ pushers it’s increasingly difficult to see it as anything other than a cult.

    Anyways, this stuff is just whistling in the wind – believers are gonna believe, and those capable of skepticism will notice inconvenient facts, and never the twain shall meet. So I’ll shut up now.

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    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
    Good point about the culture of ambition though one would hope it didn't much affect 7 year olds being asked to do something by an adult they liked. And I too have found the applicabilty of the Flynn effect to Ravens curious.

    Howrver i am not sure that you are right about "g laden" as I have always assumed that a test was more g laden if its results on average correlated more with the overall g than other tests. Of course the differences on different subtests that you mention emphasise that we are dealing woth an abstract measure rathercthan a reliable pointer to a single or uniform underlying neurological reality. All that suggests to me is that the predictions one might be inclined to make - even based on averages over large groups which eliminates some of the possible confounding factors - are inevitably made cruder by the fact that some of the more unusual and highly diverse results on different subtests could vitiate reliance on what a given IQ score (g) would normally suggest.

    Also g is not just a mathematical artefact I understand because the original IQ tests were subjected to validation by judgment of teachers and others used tp assessing "intelligence". Yes I can see scope for scepticism but it seems fair enough to rely sonewhat on a measure which leads experienced teachers/examiners to say "there are some anomalies and surprises but it is really remarkable how well those IQ scores they arrived with stack up with their exam results, essays and contributions in class".

    As it happens I had access to hundreds of reports which included IQ test results during my last year at secondary school and it is remarkable how well the scores correlated with exam results and later life success in cognitively demanding occupations. No surprise that one boy whose IQ was recorded as 183 became first a particle physicist at Cambridge and MIT then retired to study law and quickly rise to the top of the IP bar. And so on.

    , @Wizard of Oz
    I think yours is an appropriately intelligent comment to attach a couple of afterthoughts to beyond my initial response.

    There are many reasons beside your diverging subtest results point to be sceptical about the use of IQ beyond acknowledging the use of averages. For example what would one make of someone's potential who could do amazing feats of calculation in his head in 2 minutes that would take most trained mathematicians an hour? Suppose the same person was dyslexic and had a poor vocabulary?

    But what prompted this addendum was the thought that having an efficient processor and lots of fast RAM isn't likely to make the interface work with equivalent superior performance. A friend of mine with IQ measured at 180 understandably likes to read very fast but I can't help noticing that accuracy is not her strong suit at least not on politics and general subjects. (Maybe in her areas of special knowledge and interest her reckless driving is disciplined to stick to the bitumen). And hearing is even more likely to limit input speed if only because clear speech is relaiively slow. Indeed wandering attention could be a problem for efficient aural intake by the smart. Finally a very high IQ may mean that the words to be written or spoken are formulated accurately at somewhat greater speed than can be achieved with a lower IQ but even that likely increase in speed van't be matched by the articulation of sounds or even the fastest typing.

    , @utu
    "The logical ommissions, the simplistic interpretations, the selective use of facts are so many and so obvious by the IQ pushers it’s increasingly difficult to see it as anything other than a cult."

    I go with it. It would need to be elaborated further and compared to other "intellectual cults" from the past like for example psychoanalysis that was able to have a very significant following among people who considered themselves to be smart. Many of them were very smart indeed. What is the mechanism of people getting fooled by the pseudoscience? It works on the demand-supply curve. The demand must be first. The IQ-ist have a deep psychological need for IQ-"science" to be true. They get want they want.

    Structurally the concepts around the IQ "theories" are much more simplistic than in psychoanalysis so it has much higher followings among those with rather modest intellectual means.

    In find James Flynn to be the most reasonable (palatable) among the IQ-"scientist". He seems to have some distance to the subject perhaps because he got somehow inoculated to the temptations of reification that others cannot resist. The reification is the fundamental trick played on the adherents. W/o it the quasi scientific status would not be possible and the thing would die on its own or just vegetate on the level of mere empirical curiosity.

    The followers (like followers of any cult) like to think of themselves of being the part of counter Zeitgeist but in reality they are a part of the main stream Zeitgeist because all cults are part of the Zeitgeist.

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  238. FKA Max says:
    @Wizard of Oz
    I think you point to evidence that sanguine hopes for testing that couldn't be prepared for were bound to be disappointed. But I recall that Eysenck wrote in favour of England's 11 plus tests for entry to grammar schools - possibly as early as the 50s - but made it clear that he thought fairness would be assured by giving the test three times so as to virtually eliminate the coaching effect. (Pity about the smart kids who got bored doing the same sort of stuff three times!). I am a bit sceptical about Raven's Progressiv Matrices really being a good universal IQ test but would have to agree that only a limited amount of coaching or repetitions of the test would be likely to boost scores.

    In the context of coaching and cramming effects that you have brought up it interests me that the generally quoted figure of 115 for average Ashkenazi IQ of 20 years ago became more like 112 by the time La Griffe wrote the piece I linked above. And the wider recognition of the Flynn Effect is another reason for being sceptical about any claims to precision.

    This is the most realistic assessment of Jewish IQ/intelligence I have come across so far in the IQist-sphere:

    Given such a wide range of scores, it’s fascinating to ask what the overall Jewish IQ is. Averaging across all six subtests, Jewish Americans outperformed U.S. whites by 0.12 SD. Converting that into a composite IQ requires knowing the intercorrelations of the subtests, however on a comparable battery of tests (the WISC-R), someone who averages +0.12 SD across all the subtests has a composite score that is +0.13 SD, equating to a full-scale IQ of 102.

    This is substantially lower than the U.S. Jewish mean of 110 commonly cited by Richard Lynn. Of course it depends on the test. If one goes by tests like the SAT, which are all about verbal and math talent, Jews should easily score 110, but on a more comprehensive global sample of intellectual abilities, it seems U.S. Jews are virtually tied with U.S. whites.
    [...]

    Why did Jews struggle to adapt for so long, and then suddenly start thriving economically and culturally? Is this because Jews only recently evolved their high IQs as scholars Cochran and Harpending argued, or did their genes stay the same, while the environment suddenly began to favour their specific cognitive talents (verbal and math)? Spatial IQ might be useful for building a civilization, but once the buildings and technology is built by others, wordsmiths and math types rule the roost.