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Zimmer: "Before Arguing About DNA Tests, Learn the Science Behind Them"
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From the New York Times:

Before Arguing About DNA Tests, Learn the Science Behind Them
Our genetic code cannot be treated as a matter of simple fractions.

By Carl Zimmer, Oct. 18, 2018

In other words, buy Carl’s book! I reviewed Carl’s She Has Her Mother’s Laugh earlier this year in Taki’s.

… The reception of Senator Elizabeth Warren’s DNA results is a textbook case in this confusion.

On Monday morning, Senator Warren released an analysis on her DNA showing that six to 10 generations back she had a Native American ancestor. Within hours, Michael Ahrens, an official at the Republican National Committee, dismissed the results in a tweet:

“So Elizabeth Warren is possibly 1/1024 (0.09 percent) Native American. Scientists say the average European-American is 0.18 percent Native American. That’d make Warren even less Native American than the average European-American.”

By Monday afternoon, James Freeman, an assistant editor of The Wall Street Journal’s editorial page, had fleshed out Mr. Ahrens’s arithmetic. The DNA analysis, he wrote, “suggests that the senator is somewhere between 1/64th and 1/1024th Native American.” He added: “Her genetic makeup is perhaps similar to that of the average white person in the U.S.”

Carl is very mad about these fractions, but will he tell us what he thinks are better estimates?

These numbers then began ricochet around social media. They carried a clear implication: that Elizabeth Warren was no different in her Native American ancestry than a great many other white Americans.

Both Mr. Ahrens and Mr. Freeman cited a 2014 New York Times article as evidence for their claims. I wrote that article. So let me just say this: They’re wrong.

They both mistakenly treat DNA as a matter of simple fractions. We each have two parents, the thinking goes, so therefore we inherit half of each parent’s DNA. From each grandparent we inherit precisely a quarter of our DNA, and so on by the powers of two back into the mists of time. This is how they came up with the 1/1024th figure — two parents, each with two parents, going back 10 generations.

This misguided way of thinking has a history that extends far beyond the discovery of DNA.

Actually, that’s a pretty reasonable way of thinking. Your biological family tree exists in some kind of Platonic realm. (Don’t ask me what.) Ten generations ago in your family tree, there are 1024 slots that somebody (not necessarily 1024 separate individuals) filled. Not 1023 slots, not 1025 slots, but 1024. That number is not socially constructed.

Your DNA today is massively influenced by who those 1024 were, but it’s not a perfect replication due to the lumpiness of the process.

For centuries, people thought of ancestry in terms of blood, and fractions of it. People were pure-blooded or half-blooded. When the United States government set up rules for deciding who could be members of Native American tribes, it called the system “blood quantum.” …

But DNA is not a liquid that can be divided down into microscopic drops. It’s a string-like molecule, arranged into 23 pairs of chromosomes, that gets passed down through the generations in a counterintuitive way.

It’s not that counterintuitive. It works a lot like people figured. But until recently, people tended to think in analog terms and didn’t have that many examples of digital-like quantum processes to draw analogies from. Darwin and Galton were stumped at working out the details of how heredity works because the model they had in mind was mixing fluids in chemistry, which can go on using fractions for quite some time before 19th Century chemists had to start to worry about the fundamental lumpiness of reality at the molecular and lower levels.

… That means we inherit about a quarter of our DNA from each grandparent — but only on average. Any one person may inherit more DNA from one grandparent and less from another.

Over generations, this randomness can lead to something remarkable. Look back far enough in your family tree, and you’ll encounter ancestors from whom you inherit no DNA at all.

The geneticist Graham Coop of the University of California, Davis, and his colleagues have studied how DNA disappears. If you pick one of your ancestors from 10 generations back, the odds are around 50 percent that you carry any DNA from him or her. The odds get even worse beyond that.

In other words, if Senator Warren had a second, wholly independent American Indian ancestor ten generations ago (say, from the other parent’s side), there’s a 50% chance Professor Bustamante might never have noticed any DNA from him or her. So, there’s a chance she’s not 1/1024th Indian but 2/1024th Indian! Or something.

Even if you get no DNA from many of your ancestors, they are still your ancestors. “Genetics,” Dr. Coop has noted, “is not genealogy.”

This is like saying that Newton was wrong because of Einstein and Einstein was wrong because of Bohr. Yeah, good point … but the Newtonian glass is still pretty full too. Genetics is the real world approximation of the Platonic reality that is your family tree, and it tends to work pretty well, kind of like Newton’s Inverse Square Law isn’t bad at describing a relativistic universe. …

As I pointed out in my review of Zimmer’s book, he, like most contemporary intellectuals, tends to have trouble with the reality that an awful lot of glasses are part full and part empty simultaneously.

How many European-Americans are like Senator Warren, with a small amount of Native American ancestry? Scientists can’t say for sure. The best clues to date come from a 2014 study carried out by researchers at 23andMe. They looked at the DNA of 160,000 customers who described themselves as being of European, African or Latino ancestry. Across all the European-Americans in the study, the average amount of Native American ancestry was 0.18 percent.

But once again, averages can be deceptive. The researchers found Native American ancestry in only 2.7 percent of their customers, while the vast majority had none at all.

So the average 23andMe customer who self identifies as white and has some Native American DNA is 6.7% American Indian, or about 1/16th on average: e.g., one American Indian great-great-grandparent four generations ago. (Quarterback Sam Bradford is said to 1/16th Cherokee.) Or maybe two independent great-great-great-grandparents, etc.

From a Bayesian perspective, the very small percentage of white Americans who have a Native American ancestor lowers the chances that Professor Bustamante’s DNA analysis missed a second Native American ancestor. Being descended from a Cherokee Princess is just rarer than American folklore suggests.

On the other hand, Senator Warren is from Oklahoma, where the Bayesian odds are somewhat higher than in, say New Jersey.

In summary, the best guess is that Senator Warren’s ancestry is 1/64th to 1/1024th American Indian, just like the WSJ writer figured.

There is a statistical chance that she might have more … or she might have less. But Prof. Bustamante’s findings suggest that 1/256th is the single likeliest figure.

Update: Razib tweets that he thinks Bustamante was overly cautious in his analysis, and Razib feels 2% American Indian would be a better reading of Senator Warren’s DNA, which would be between 1/32nd and 1/64th.

 
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  1. To the American voters who will vote in the 2020 elections, Carl Zimmer is a nobody.

    To me, he is a fraud.

    He probably also believes in Lewontin’s fallacy.

  2. Trevor H. says:

    We are rapidly getting to the point where obsessive genealogy is the order of the day. The only groups I’ve seen this way before were…Jews and Nazis. Not that there’s anything wrong with them..

  3. Steve — Keep up the good fight!

    • Replies: @anonymous
  4. Anon[425] • Disclaimer says:

    I don’t need no stinking DNA tests. I can see who’s who and what’s what.

    Guillermo is mixed surely, but that guy is Mexican.

    And so are these guys: Just trust the eyes.

    And look at these video: I can tell that most are Chinese or white.

  5. Jefferson says:

    This music video reminds me of Elizabeth Warren because it shows White people enjoying Native American culture.

  6. Anon[425] • Disclaimer says:

    If Indians are so noble and if having Indian blood is so precious, it means the removal of Indians from much of American lands was tragic.

    Then, shouldn’t white Americans be trying to revive American Indian communities and restore much of America to the reds? The worst insult to Indians is Mass-Immigration-Invasion that will expose America to more waves of Invaders.

    Stop the Invasion and Restore the Indians.

    A new movement. Whites must send non-whites who came after 1965 back and spend their energies on restoring the Noble Indian.

    • LOL: Mr. Rational
    • Replies: @Emblematic
    , @bomag
  7. Anon[189] • Disclaimer says:

    Where is Nick Patterson when you need him! Nick, get off your arse and school this bloody Zimmer guy on maths! He’s a few sandwiches short of a picnic.

    I’ll give it a try. Yeah, looking at a parent, you may have a third of his or her genes, or you may have two-thirds. But let’s say your great-great-great grandparent only gave a third to his son, but his son gave two-thirds to his grandson. Bob’s your uncle. How much did Bob get? Once you get beyond a few generations, it’s all tickety-boo.

    • Replies: @Precious
  8. Anonymous[289] • Disclaimer says:

    I refuse to buy or read Zimmer’s book on the principle that anything with such an impossibly corny title as She Has Her Mother’s Laugh couldn’t possibly be worth the effort.

  9. BenKenobi says:

    A couple years back my gf gave me a 23 and Me for a birthday present. To my dismay two consecutive properly submitted tests (they sent a free follow-up) resulted in an “inconclusive” result. Apparently this isn’t uncommon.

    I was doubly interested as I’m named after my paternal grandfather, whose two given names we’re Benjamin Hiram. *Thinking emoticon* When I first learned of this I asked my grandmother and she cut me off:

    I asked him the same thing when we were both 16 — whaddya got two Jewish names for?!” I’m told he was of old Pennsylvania Amish stock.

  10. According to my 23andMe results, I have about the same amount of West African ancestry as Warren has Indian ancestry. I would never claim to be a negro and there were no stories passed down to me about the suffering of my slave ancestor.

    Warren is a liar and a fraud. Even if her DNA test is legit (which I doubt), there is no way in hell she or any of her parents or grandparents heard any stories about the sufferings of an ancestor from the 1700′s or had recipes passed down from that ancestor.

    And the story about her mother’s parents objecting to her father based on an Indian ancestor from the 1700′s is absurd. No one in Oklahoma gives a damn about someone having a minute amount of Indian blood.

  11. Lurker says:

    Blood Quantum – would be a great movie title.

    Blood Quantum II: Troubled Inheritance

    “Mercenary Darwin Galton is back and he’s mad as hell!”

    • Agree: Lot
    • LOL: IHTG, Dtbb
    • Replies: @Mr. Anon
  12. Relying on Zimmer’s exquisite subtleties, others will now be able to say that “Trump lied” when he said Warren is only x% (whatever he may have said x to be) Indian.

  13. On the other hand, Senator Warren is from Oklahoma, where the Bayesian odds are somewhat higher than in, say New Jersey.

    The white man heartlessly stole the Indians’ Casinos in New Jersey, driving the Brigantine Indians East and away from their ancestral homes along what is now known as the Atlantic City Expressway. My great-great-great grandfather was proud Chief Sandflea, who after the appropriation of his people’s Casinos was forced into work outside of Cigar Stores.

    • LOL: Redneck farmer
    • Replies: @ScarletNumber
  14. Glaivester says: • Website

    There is a statistical chance that she might have more … or she might have less. But Prof. Bustamante’s findings suggest that 1/256th is the single likeliest figure.

    The ol’ geometric mean….

  15. …Oklahoma, where the Bayesian odds are somewhat higher than in, say New Jersey.

    In summary, the best guess is that Senator Warren’s ancestry is 1/64th to 1/1024th American Indian, just like the WSJ writer figured.

    There is a statistical chance that she might have more … or she might have less. But Prof. Bustamante’s findings suggest that 1/256th is the single likeliest figure.

    In other words, we are in casino territory. How appropriate.

    But remember, the house always wins in the end.

    • Replies: @dr kill
  16. L Woods says:

    Does this article serve any purpose beyond inane water muddying? Rhetorical question, of course.

  17. J.Ross says: • Website

    Zimmer’s argument accidentally reminds or explains how “blacked” works: some inheritances erase others.

  18. Jefferson says:

    When Stefan Molyneux was in Australia he was interviewed by a female journalist, during the middle of the interview Stefan asked her how do you feel as a White ……. and she immediately cut him off and said she is not White she is an Aborigine.

    I brought it up because it reminds me of Elizabeth Warren and also that Flight From White also exists in Australia.

  19. eah says:

    OT

    Now do rich Jews.

    • Replies: @bomag
    , @Forbes
  20. @L Woods

    Does this article serve any purpose beyond inane water muddying? Rhetorical question, of course.

    I think we need to stop viewing the NYT as an organ that simply influences society and culture, but as something that has now taken upon itself the task of insulating the worldview of its readers from all contrary stimuli.

  21. These earnest explanations for the layperson clarifying the science behind Elizabeth Warren’s DNA test are okay as science education (though they could be better), but in the realm of political dialogue, which is what they are actually intended to be part of, they are basically a crafty form of gaslighting.

    • Agree: TTSSYF, Forbes
  22. 10k words to say the Tribe is trying to Talmudically argue white into black.

    This is why you couldn’t and cant grok the Trump Appeal.

    • Agree: Mr. Rational
    • Replies: @Anonymous
  23. “But once again, averages can be deceptive.” Yeah, when the mean is deceptive it’s conventional to present at least the median and mode.

    .027 x 160,000 = 4320 people had Native American ancestry.

    .018 x 160,000 = 2880 units of (theoretically) pure Native American ancestry in sample of 160,000 units.

    2880 / 4320 = .66667 = actual (averaged) percentage of Native American ancestry in those who had Native American ancestry.

    So of the 160,000 people in the sample, only 4320 persons had Native American ancestry and they were (on average) two-thirds Native American.

    Is this right?

    • Replies: @utu
    , @Achmed E. Newman
  24. @Alec Leamas

    I think we need to stop viewing the NYT as an organ that simply influences society and culture, but as something that has now taken upon itself the task of insulating the worldview of its readers from all contrary stimuli.

    Or just a very expensive crossword puzzle.

    • Replies: @Elsewhere
  25. Lot says:

    “So the average 23andMe customer who self identifies as white and has some Native American DNA is 6.7% American Indian”

    More complicated than that.

    23andme doesn’t sequence your whole genome, and most of what they do sequence isn’t assigned an ethnicity.

    This may be why Warren used a Stanford expert and not an online service. 23andme’s less precise answer might have been the dreaded 0.0% Indian, so she looked for a second and more thorough opinion. Indeed, she would have been kinda dumb not to first try 23andme, hoping for a nice fat lucky overestimate of 2.5% Amerindian or something.

    In other words,

    1. the share of white Americans who have some Amerindian DNA is higher than 23andme reports

    2. the average amount of that DNA is lower than reported.

    Not to be negative about 23andme, they do as well as they can given the relevant limitations. They could do better still if more unmixed people signed up to provide reference populations. Their Ashkenazi percentage is pretty precise in part because so many AJs have submitted samples.

  26. Anonymous[187] • Disclaimer says:

    In summary, the best guess is that Senator Warren’s ancestry is 1/64th to 1/1024th American Indian, just like the WSJ writer figured.

    So Warren was correct. This is a losing issue for Trump and the Republicans.

    • Troll: IHTG
    • Replies: @eddy wobegon
    , @Forbes
  27. Anonymous[187] • Disclaimer says:
    @Jack Hanson

    10k words to say the Tribe is trying to Talmudically argue white into black.

    What the heck are you talking about?

    Who are you alleging couldn’t grok Trump?

    • Replies: @Jack Hanson
  28. Jefferson says:

    Argentinians are supposed to be the “Whitest” Hispanics, yet even Argentinians still carry way more Amerindian DNA in them than Elizabeth Warren does.

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/17177183/

  29. Jefferson says:
    @Tiny Duck

    “I know one thing

    white girls want that Black Man DNA”

    The statistics I read is that when White women marry outside their race, the most common interracial pairing for them is to marry men who belong to an ambiguous category called Other.

    More White women marry Other than marry Black men.

    • Replies: @L Woods
  30. For somebody who gets on his high horse talking about how important it is to learn the science behind these results, Zimmer seems to be pretty damn bad about giving anything like a precise answer to the very issue he brought up: what is the range of likely percentages of AmInd ancestors given Warren’s results?

    If it isn’t 1/64th through 1/1024th, what is it?

    Cat got your tongue?

    Or are you completely clueless about the answer?

    • Replies: @candid_observer
    , @Forbes
  31. @Anonymous

    Steve. Drop your autism and lrn2read.

  32. @candid_observer

    You’d think Zimmer, as a reporter, could easily reach out to some scientist friendly to his point of view who’d come up with some estimate.

    I’m guessing he did, and didn’t like the answers he got.

    • Agree: Mr. Rational
  33. Jefferson says:

    James Allsup who is a member of the Alt-Right and attended Charlottesville with a tiki torch is 1/8 Asian, which means if he wanted to for affirmative action purposes he has a way more legit claim to Person Of Color status than Elizabeth Warren does.

    • Replies: @J
  34. I identify as a Cherokee princess, but my DNA regressively assumes my race and gender.

    • Replies: @Bill B.
  35. @Tiny Duck

    So you’re a progressive who believes that biology decides sexual choices? I thought you progressives believed in nurture over nature.

    Anyway, the main reason some white women go for blacks guys is personality related. Women only have the half the sex drive of men so personality factors are more important in their partners choices. (If you don’t believe me about the sex drive difference ask a male to female transsexual). Some working class white women tend to prefer happy-go-lucky guys and have an aversion to up-tight serious guys, and black guys tend to more happy-go-lucky. Of course serious guys tend to be more economically successful, so working class women who date blacks guys are usually on a path towards lower socio-economic status.

    • Agree: Mr. Rational
    • Replies: @Jefferson
  36. @L Woods

    Clue: Zimmer’s earlier book is entitled “Parasite Rex.”

    All I remember taking from the book (he’s a piss-poor science writer, frankly) is puzzlement (I was still naïve) at what could possibly drive someone to pen what clearly read (in its rare moments of inspiration) as an apologia for the parasite.

  37. Jason Liu says:

    So what you’re saying is, purge the media after purging academia. Trump needs to get on that.

    Trumpers might think they’re winning now, but if the roots of leftism aren’t eliminated the problem will just return after Trump is gone. Don’t get caught up in the high.

    • Agree: Mr. Rational, dfordoom
  38. @Mis(ter)Anthrope

    According to my 23andMe results, I have about the same amount of West African ancestry as Warren has Indian ancestry.

    If we use the 0.4% estimate, I’m exactly as Mongolian as Warren is Native American. Everything else is European.

    My only sympathy with Warren is that everything I’d ever been told about my ancestry was bullshit according to 23andme. * But then again I didn’t go around claiming I was Mongolian and then double down after learning that my admixture is less than 1%.

    * I look enough like my father that people have mistaken old pictures of him for me – otherwise I might wonder…

  39. @L Woods

    There should be a name for this increasingly common type of journalism. Water Muddiers? Endarkening? Obfuscalism?

    Whatever the Badthinkers Said Is Wrong: Learn the Facts Here

    by En P Cie

    Those reports ricocheted around social media. They carried a clear implication: white supremacists might have a point. But they don’t. I know. I’m very smart. I went to Ivy NPC League. And talked to Scientists. Here are the facts.

    … miguided … counter-intuitive … A is not B … scientists can’t say for sure … averages can be deceptive … [random statistics] …

    [Seven paragraphs of vague, self-contradictory ambiguities omitted.]

    And that’s why you can’t trust the Alt-Right. QED.

    • LOL: bomag, L Woods
  40. Bill B. says:

    OT

    The stripping life empowers:

    I was hired (as an actress) not a stripper to portray Melania Trump,” she said. “It was a creative choice for me, and also an opportunity to empower women. I stand firmly in my decision to share all of myself in this role. I wanted to be brave, be fearless and for the first time in my life do a role that required nudity. The body is nothing to be ashamed of. In this time where women are finally speaking up about being victimized I felt good about being a strong enough woman to portray a nude First Lady.

    https://nypost.com/2018/10/18/melania-lookalike-who-stripped-in-t-i-video-getting-death-threats/

    • Replies: @Anonymouse
    , @Jim Don Bob
  41. utu says:
    @ThreeCranes

    There are 160,000*0.027=4320 with some NA ancestry while 160,000-4320=155680 have zero NA ancestry.

    Yet on average in 160,000 sample the NA ancestry is 0.18%. This can happen if the 4320 sample has average NA ancestry 0.18/2.7=0.666 which is 6.6%.

    Now what one would want to know what is median, SD of ancestry in this 4320 sample as well as what was the avg ancestry of top 10% and bottom 10%. The first would tell as if there any 100% Indians and the second would tell us what is their sensitivity the cuff off point.

    Anyway, I am not sure what did they want do convey. For me the main point would be that only 27 out of 1000 Americans have any Native American ancestry and on average it is only 6.6% of Native American ancestry they have.

    Now, because the 160,000 sample was all kinds of Americans including Latinos, it means that among white Americans the chance of meeting somebody who has Indian in him is lower than 2.7% but I, for some reason, have luck of meeting them quite often.That’s what they tell me.

    • Replies: @Travis
  42. J says: • Website
    @Jefferson

    Warren’s genetic makeup is similar to that of the average white person in the U.S. Which means that any White person has a legit claim to Person Of Color status equal to Elizabeth Warren.

    This case would be enough to instantly collapse the whole affirmative action structure. May be a righteous white boy rejected by Harvard will sue and win.

  43. Jefferson says:
    @unpc downunder

    “Women only have the half the sex drive of men so personality factors are more important in their partners choices. (If you don’t believe me about the sex drive difference ask a male to female transsexual).”

    Do Trannies have half of the sex drive that Cisgender Gay men have?

  44. @Tiny Duck

    Maaann they got that down-low brotha prancin’ round like some kinda gay-ass lawn jockey. Disney is rayciss as hell. SMDH

  45. @Anonymous

    impossibly corny title as She Has Her Mother’s Laugh

    Zimmer’s probably a big fan of mid-career Natalie Merchant.

    • Replies: @Redneck farmer
  46. Zimmer is referring to the fact that we don’t have the same amount of dna from each of our grandparents (and great grandparents, etc).

    This is because the way dna crossover works: the strands of dna we inherit from a parent may include more from one grandparent than from another.

    He does not exactly make it clear, though :(

    Since he is generally a damn good science writer, I think he is just using it as an excuse to make republicans sound bad.

  47. @Jenner Ickham Errican

    As the saying goes, everyone has at least one good quality.

    • Replies: @Jenner Ickham Errican
  48. @Anon

    In the 1970s in Australia goodthinker whites had the high-minded idea that the best thing for aborigines was to “revive” their communities by granting them land rights and then building towns in these remote places for the aborigines to live in.

    This was a reversal of the previous policy of “assimilation”. The idea was that authentic aboriginal culture had a better chance of surviving if aborigines were given their own separate turf largely disconnected from modern society. Of course common decency required that basic services such as healthcare, housing and education would still need to be provided even in these remote places, paid for by the white taxpayer.

    The result was a catastrophe. The old aboriginal way of life, centered around finding food and practising religion, had been made meaningless simply by the coming of the white man. But now, physically cut off from participation in the new society, there was nothing left for them to do but sit down and drink themselves to death. (progressive judges having ruled that denying aborigines access to alcohol was racist).

    The conclusion is that trying to revive indigenous life is a great folly unless you have the stomach to cut them off from modernity all together and treat them almost like fauna in a game reserve, and even then it would probably fail.

    It turns out, in this case at least, that taking up the White Man’s Burden – that is, being serious and honest about the situation of aborigines and taking on the responsibility to assimilate them as carefully as possible into the modern world (the policy originally promoted by the old racist badthinker whites) is the best option after all.

  49. Zimmer’s only substantive point in the material Steve abstracted is that whatever fraction of Amerindian DNA Warren has, it’s down at the level where individual ancestors begin to have a substantial chance of not even contributing genetically to their individual descendants.

    Otherwise, Zimmer’s lost in typical Jewish concerns with nominalism, as if the normie goy customers at Ancestry.com need a hectoring reminder that ‘half-blood’ is just a phrase; erythrocytes are not really the units of human inheritance.

    Steve hasn’t hammered us over the head with it, but implicit in what he wrote is that Warren has considerably less Amerindian DNA than most White Americans with a plausible ‘n-great grandma was Sioux’ family nugget.

    Lastly, note that if your chance of even contributing genetically to your own given descendant falls to only 50% after ten generations, that just raises the importance of race all the more: individual genetic legacy begins to blur out much faster than racial genetic legacy.

    • Replies: @Anonymouse
  50. @ThreeCranes

    Nope, this won’t jibe with Mr. Utu’s numbers just due to your initial error: 0.18% ≠ 0.018. It should be 0.0018.

    • Replies: @ThreeCranes
  51. bomag says:
    @Anon

    …be trying to revive American Indian communities and restore much of America to the reds?

    There’s plenty of sympathy and action toward that end today. Problem is, they have to stand in line with all the other groups. Those south of the border have the Reconquista thing going on; Blacks built this country, of course, so all must flow to them; Chinese do things cheaper, so they got dibs on controlling the future; Muslims are more religious, so it’s all going to be theirs eventually; subcontinental Indians have more hustle going on, so they are the natural heirs to what remains of this place; etc.

  52. @Bill B.

    Coinicidentally we watched Blaze last night starring an aging Paul Newman playing Earl Long, governor of Louisiana enamored of the stripper Blaze Starr, a wise wise woman with big titties. We gave it 3 starrs in our movie logbook.

  53. @Tiny Duck

    There certainly are as Ducky says an increasing number of interracial matings in my far left Southern metro area. I see them all the time.

    But mostly the white women are…how to say this delicately…far to the right (at least one standard deviation and more often 2) on the BMI distribution and have unpleasing facial features. I doubt that most of them are married to their brown sperm donors and if they have been, the marriages were short lived.

    • Replies: @MarkinLA
  54. Flip says:
    @BenKenobi

    My great grandfather was Adam Jacob and he was a Protestant born in Germany. His father-in-law was a Protestant named Jacob who born in Germany.

  55. @Redneck farmer

    Ms. Merchant had some great songs, especially with 10,000 Maniacs. But the title She Has Her Mother’s Laugh immediately brought to mind this cringeworthy video.

    Anyway, enough criticism.

    Do we dig daydreamy sway-dancing bob cut indie pop pixies? Yes we do!

  56. The bit about always 1024 separate ancestors at the 10 generations level is incorrect . There are potentially 1024 separate ancestors. There is usually a bit of overlap. If someone marries a cousin, even a seventh cousin, there is overlap. In many societies marriage of first cousins is common.

  57. @Jack Highlands

    “Otherwise, Zimmer’s lost in typical Jewish concerns with nominalism,” That’s new one. Is nominalism a good thing or a bad thing? As Jewish=bad for Jack Highlands and his tribe, it must be a bad thing.

    • Replies: @Fred Boynton
  58. Jack D says:
    @BenKenobi

    Hiram is not an especially common Jewish name. Ashkenazi Jews have very distinctive genetic profiles and don’t usually come back “inconclusive”. I would suggest trying again with a different company.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  59. Travis says:
    @utu

    Whites with over 10% Native American most likely have a Mexican or Latino ancestor.

    My wife has always identified as White. When she did the genetic test at 23andme she was incredulous that the results indicated 12% Native American. Her mother was furious when she was told her daughter was part amerindian, told us it must be from her husband (who was Italian) because her family was 100% Spanish.

    I was surprised it was above 10% , but suspected she had some amerindian blood because her Mother was Chilean. When her Mother and Brother tested they were unwilling to believe the results. According to 23andme my mother-in-law is 26% Native American, yet has no known indigenous ancestors. Funny how the South Americans deny their amerindian heritage and always claim to be 100% European. It is interesting to see how quickly the Amerindian DNA vanishes, my Children are just 6% Native American while their Grandmother is 26%. My wife, her brother and my children identified as white at 23andme which is could be the reason the data is skewed at 23andme.

    • Replies: @utu
    , @Jefferson
    , @Jack D
    , @Knox
  60. @Anonymous

    “So Warren was correct. This is a losing issue for Trump and the Republicans.”

    But the notion that she was a Native American was supposed to mean she thought and had special skills like a member of a diverse group.

    So you subscribe to the notion that one drop of blood will allow someone to channel the indescribable differences of demographic groups?

    How does one concentrate on the 1/1024 essence without being overwhelmed by the other 1023/1024 essences?

    The magic of diversity is supposed to come from the difference between white thinking and exotic thinking. Doesn’t Warren’s overwhelming whiteness mute any miniscule Native American “voice” that she has?

    • Replies: @Lurker
  61. @Alec Leamas

    The NYT is the chief organ responsible for establishment of The Narrative:  what Americans are supposed to think, and anything they don’t write about must not be thought about at all.

  62. @Achmed E. Newman

    Silly me. Of course. That’ll teach me to post when I’m in the middle of some homemade Sangria. But in fairness to myself, I was trying to remember the numbers from a link that kept disappearing as I toggled back and forth between screens.

    So, 0.0018 x 166,000 = 288 units etc.

    288 / 4320 = 0.06667 = 6.67 % or (on average) roughly one sixteenth Native American.

    • Replies: @Mr. Rational
  63. @Emblematic

    Arguably, the course taken with the Tasmanians was the best.  The problems were not left for future generations to solve.

    Given the rock-bottom IQ of Abos and the raising of the bar in the modern world, is there any place for Abos?  Would we try to assimiliate Australopithecus?

  64. bomag says:
    @eah

    A kumbaya article: “Oh, there are extremes! Why can’t we live in the middle?”

    He lists the traits of liberal and conservative “extremists”, as if they are equally bad.

    At some point, one has to start deciding which one is more correct; which one more reflects lived reality.

    I notice that libs mainly suggest ways for other people to live, while they themselves live largely traditional lives.

    “One is most conservative about the things they know best.”

  65. dr kill says:
    @Reg Cæsar

    According to that organ of the Trumpian Right, The Intercept, The good Perfesser Bustamonte (enjoy the definition of his name at Urban Dictionary) used DNA from El Peru and Equador to replace the lack of North American DNA available.

    https://theintercept.com/2018/10/15/elizabeth-warren-reveals-dna-evidence-native-american-ancestry-rebuking-trump/

    Oh Boy.

  66. anon[354] • Disclaimer says:

    Before arguing about politics and ethics, Zimmerman should learn the common sense behind them. If someone claims to be Indian to get career points and it turns out they are only 1/1024th, then they are a liar and hypocrite, which is a good thing to know before voting for them.

  67. before arguing about IQ TESTS learn the science behind them.

  68. @BenKenobi

    Having two Old Testament names is about as basic bitch Protestant as being inbred and aliterate; in other words, incredibly common.

    • Troll: Desiderius, Mr. Rational
  69. Sean c says:

    What is this 23 chromosome thinking? It is just not that simple some people don’t have 23. Makes about as much sense as his argument.

  70. L Woods says:
    @Jefferson

    Obligatory reminder that marriage statistics do not equate to the prevalence of intercourse or de facto long-term relationships.

  71. @ThreeCranes

    Just a tad more than 1/16; almost exactly 1/16 + 1/256.

    Almost like there were 2 major mixing events, 4 and 8 generations ago.

  72. res says:

    Update: Razib tweets that he thinks Bustamante was overly cautious in his analysis, and Razib feels 2% American Indian would be a better reading of Senator Warren’s DNA, which would be between 1/32nd and 1/64th.

    I am unable to find this. Does anyone have a link?

    I do see https://www.gnxp.com/WordPress/2018/10/15/elizabeth-warren-carries-native-american-dna-shes-running/
    which mentions 2% in what looks to be a quote within a 10/17 comment by Twinkie.

    But I am unable to find a tweet like that looking at both

    https://twitter.com/razibkhan

    https://twitter.com/gnxp_posts

    Did Razib give the reasoning behind his conclusion?

  73. Precious says:
    @Anon

    Where is Nick Patterson when you need him!

    I too would like to know when Nick Patterson will return and reprise his role as unpaid Elizabeth Warren defense attorney.

  74. Realistic says:

    The Oklahoma residence has little to no bearing on the question if we’re discussing the Cherokee. She was born in 1949. 6-10 generations ago at 25 years per generation would have the Native American DNA entering the picture from 150 to 250 years prior to her birth which would be roughly 1700 to 1800. The Trail of Tears didn’t start until the 1830’s. The Cherokee would have still been in East Tennessee and Western North Carolina at that time.

    Given her Germanic heritage (maiden name Herring) it’s more likely that the “Native American” DNA is from the Huns that invaded Eastern Europe and parts of Germany and whose ancestors migrated eastward to eventually populate the Americas. There is a lot of research online that discusses this issue but the press seems to ignore it for the most part.

    It would be interesting to see her family tree to see when they actually arrived in America.

    • Replies: @Forbes
  75. Mr. Anon says:
    @Lurker

    Blood Quantum – would be a great movie title.

    Blood Quantum II: Troubled Inheritance

    “Mercenary Darwin Galton is back and he’s mad as hell!”

    Quantum of Tsuris

  76. @Bill B.

    “It was a creative choice for me…”

    Which means get naked or you don’t get the part.

  77. eah says:

    She’s now a politician who stands for elections — so whether that/her career continues is more or less up to voters.

  78. Elsewhere says:
    @Reg Cæsar

    Reg, did I perhaps see you at an event recently? There was an older vet there who mentioned that he would be taking the “dirt nap” soon. Could it be you?

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
  79. Pat Boyle says:
    @Mis(ter)Anthrope

    After the divorce I dated a lot. I met a woman through Match.com who met my criteria. She was tall and she had a doctorate. She was a natural blond and a professor at Stanford. She had blue eyes and fair skin.

    I mention her complexion because she claimed to be part black. She referred to herself as an octaroon. She had a story about how in the deep south the brothels preferred octaroons – white enough to be attractive but black enough to be passionate..

    It was preposterous of course and later when her politics changed she dropped it. I think Warren probably did much the same in all innocence. She was just another white bread Caucasian who made up a more exotic little fable about herself that was consonant with her politics.

    Little girls make up little stories.

    It would have been completely innocent and harmless but then as an adult she resurrected her little story to gain an advantage over her career rivals. For that she should be flayed alive. Or considering the Eighth Amendment at least imprisoned. Cheating on entrance requirements is serious business. Wars have been fought over such matters. Remember the Taiping rebellion.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    , @Russ
  80. fletcher says:

    Maybe after the media is done arguing about Warren’s amount of Indian blood they can discuss whether MACS0647-JD is 13 or 14 billion light years away.

  81. Forbes says:
    @eah

    Another “phoned-it-in” column from Brooks.

    Brooks doesn’t tell us anything about the folks (“More in Common”) who ran the survey—someone is funding them, and there is always an agenda. It would be nice to know who/what it is. Also, it’s hard from the column to ascertain which are Brooks’ own interpretations, and which (outside of percentages he cites) are survey results—which clouds understanding.

    He writes: “There’s little evidence of individual thought, just cult conformity.”

    But that impression is what you get when you collate survey respondents into seven similar categories. It’s not about individual thought, it’s about group generalities. This, from Brooks, who’s written 3 or 4 social science-like books pigeon-holing people into groups based on such broad-brush categories.

    He also writes this: “You could say that tribalism is the fruit of privilege.”

    This seems particularly naive. People have organized as tribes for most of human civilization. It’s the modern development of the nation-state superimposed on top of tribes in order to form a larger collective that obscures the view of the tribes that people associate or organize. This, coming from someone who’s own son signed up and served, not in the US, but in the Israeli Defense Forces—I suppose that could be viewed as a fruit of privilege. But very tribal. Self-awareness seems to be lacking in Brooks.

    • Replies: @Anon
  82. Forbes says:
    @Alec Leamas

    I stopped buying it in the run-up to the 2000 election. They were preaching a religion I did not believe.

  83. Forbes says:
    @Anonymous

    So Warren was correct. This is a losing issue for Trump and the Republicans.

    Given that Dems and Reps alike call it a disaster as to political strategy and PR–you’ve got the counter-intuitive field to yourself…

  84. Forbes says:
    @candid_observer

    Zimmer’s column is about reinforcing The Narrative–at least with distraction–not providing a clarifying answer.

  85. Forbes says:
    @Realistic

    The Oklahoma residence has little to no bearing on the question if we’re discussing the Cherokee. She was born in 1949. 6-10 generations ago at 25 years per generation would have the Native American DNA entering the picture from 150 to 250 years prior to her birth which would be roughly 1700 to 1800. The Trail of Tears didn’t start until the 1830’s. The Cherokee would have still been in East Tennessee and Western North Carolina at that time.

    I kept meaning to mention this sort of observation. Who was in the OK territory in the 18th century that makes OK relevant to Warren’s genetics? Where were her ancestors in the 18th century?

    Also, how does the story regarding her mother (rejection by her father’s family as Amerindian) fit with the estimated 5-9 generation genetic link? Perhaps there’s another/different story (scandal) regarding her mother/mother’s family that was “papered over” (for any sundry of reasons).

  86. @Tiny Duck

    I wish this phase of making Darker and Edgier fairy tales would just end.

  87. @Almost Missouri

    So many great comments, so few LOLs allowed…

    • LOL: Mr. Rational
    • Replies: @Mr. Rational
  88. @Trevor H.

    Well then, how about Jewish Nazis like Field Marshal Erhard Milch?

    • Replies: @YetAnotherAnon
  89. @BenKenobi

    I am reminded of the French traditionalist (now a priest) who said to me once, entirely seriously: “That president of yours, Lincoln, he was a Jew!”
    Puzzled, I asked him how he could know that.
    He looked at my pityingly and hissed: “His name was Abraham!”.

  90. @Mis(ter)Anthrope

    A Dutch ancestral first cousin of mine, of distinguished but on his side impoverished lineage, tried his luck in Curacao. He did well enough, but he married a black woman, indeed an ex-slave. One of their descendants, who by that time also had Chinese blood running through his veins, was that little country’s Foreign Minister.

    Another branch returned to the Netherlands, and one of the younger descendants, a champion rower, is blond, blue-eyed, and hawk-nosed. What Zimmer is telling us is that the old idea that a trait could be “bred out” is nothing less than the truth.

  91. utu says:
    @Travis

    Did it occur to you that the product provided by 23andme and similar company sis crap? How did they develop the Native American database in the first place? Where did they get Native American genome from?

    • Agree: BB753
  92. res says:
    @Almost Missouri

    There should be a name for this increasingly common type of journalism. Water Muddiers? Endarkening? Obfuscalism?

    There is. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obscurantism

    • Replies: @Jack D
  93. MarkinLA says:
    @Steve in Greensboro

    The fat ugly ones don’t have to worry about being killed when they end it unlike the stupid good looking ones.

    http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/boyfriend-slain-pittsburgh-student-caught-s-article-1.3555330

  94. @ThirdWorldSteveReader

    Well, allowed de facto, if not quite de jure.

  95. Anon[270] • Disclaimer says:
    @Emblematic

    The Austro-Aborins are close to cave man. A truly backward people. Not really comparable to Indians.

    Also, by restoring Indians, I don’t mean encouraging them to act like savages and hunters. I mean helping them rise to modernity and taking a bigger part in American Life.

    And have them say, “This is the land of our forefathers, and it’s been invaded ENOUGH. No more immigration-invasion.”

  96. Anon[121] • Disclaimer says:
    @Peripatetic commenter

    He probably also believes in Lewontin’s fallacy.

    No, one of those people who PRETEND to believe in it.

  97. Anon[121] • Disclaimer says:
    @Mis(ter)Anthrope

    Warren is a liar and a fraud.

    In a way, yes, especially the way she politicized it.

    But white people claiming Indian blood is part of American folklore and folk culture. And it predated rise of PC and multi-culturalism.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Custer_Died_for_Your_Sins#Indians_Today:_The_Real_and_the_Unreal

    Generally, these whites don’t want to look Indian or really be Indian. They like to claim of Indian-ness as ethnic spice and exoticism.

    I’ve met white people who look totally white saying they are part Indian. I don’t see any harm in it as long as it’s not politicized. It’s like some people believing in reincarnation. They were… Cleopatra or Alexander the Great in earlier lives.

  98. J.Ross says: • Website
    @Anonymous

    There is pattern of extremely good information in weakly or downright poorly written books by credentialed science types, like Glaser’s Missing Microbes or Bader’s Arousal, or the wierdly mis-edited but fascinating The Black Prince And The Sea Devils. This is the admittedly survivable consequence of neglecting humanities education. As I recall Steve praised Zimmer’s exposition of genetic concepts and advances, not necessarily his wit.

    • Agree: Desiderius
  99. Anon[121] • Disclaimer says:
    @Forbes

    This, coming from someone who’s own son signed up and served, not in the US, but in the Israeli Defense Forces—I suppose that could be viewed as a fruit of privilege. But very tribal. Self-awareness seems to be lacking in Brooks.

    People can be divided into those with strong cultures/identities and those with weak cultures/identities.

    Generally, those with strong C/I go through education and obtain skills to serve the C/I. Even though education emphasizes universalism and colorblind justice, C/I eventually wins out, and even as the graduates mouth all the PC platitudes, they really think in terms of how-to-use-the-system-to-serve-my-tribe.
    Education is ‘transformative’ of everyone, but strong C/I weathers education’s flattening and universalizing effect. Even after education, C/I remains central to one’s worldview. The knowledge serves C/I than C/I surrenders to the knowledge(of universalism).

    Jews must have very strong C/I. They attend these higher institutions, and even as they spout PC platitudes, in terms of what they really do(as opposed to what they say), their behavior is tribal-centric.

    Imagine two Michael Corleones.
    One is strong in C/I and other is weak in C/I.
    The former, even after college and lessons in Americanism, primarily feels as a Sicilian, makes ‘aliyah’ to the home country, and works to make America serve his tribe’s interests.
    In contrast, the latter emerges from higher education as a colorblind American who is committed to serving universal ideals. He is ready to denounce Italian-ness IF it is seen as antithetical to American values. He is Civilian than Sicilian.

    Whites(esp Northern Eurpoeans) and East Asians in the US seem to have very weak C/I. Whites either feel ‘white guilt’ or ‘above culture’, i.e. they are so ‘evolved’ that they feel aloof about cultural identity and tribal customs. Either way, they feel no great loyalty to their identity or culture.
    East Asians have weak C/I outside Asia because the main theme of their culture is servitude to superiority, the master, the lord. There used to be ancestor reverence in traditional Asia, but that world seems to be gone, destroyed by communism or capitalism. So, status striving and serving superiority are the main modes of Asian-ness. This means Asians in the US will prioritize serving and conforming to whatever happens to be the top power. If it is globo-homo PC, they go that way. So, these two groups, whites and yellows, are profoundly affected and transformed by higher education. They surrender their C/I totally and go with the Narrative and Dogma. They are mainly committed to serving Correctness.

    In contrast, Jews are different. They are not profoundly transformed by higher education. Sure, they learn the skills and gain the knowledge, but ultimately, it is all to serve Jewish identity, culture, and power. Whites and yellows end up serving ‘America’ in its updated manifestation. In contrast, Jews are hellbent on making ‘America’ serve Jews.

    When whites and yellows enter college, they are digested by The Knowledge. When Jews enter college, they digest The Knowledge. Big difference. Thus, whites/yellows serve The Knowledge, whereas the Knowledge serves the Jews. And since Jews don’t give up their C/I, they shape the Knowledge so that non-Jews will be made to believe that Americanism is mainly about praising, honoring, and satisfying Jews. This perverts even universal values and colorblind justice since Americanism has been made synonymous with “Is it good for the Jews?” So, we have Paul Ryan berating any sign of white identity but wetting his pants over Israel, Israel, Israel.

    In SERIOUS MAN, we see how Jewish kids come under the same deracinating pop cultural influences as all the other kids. But what makes the difference between the Jewish kid and others? There is the Bar Mitzvah, the reading of the sacred texts, the rituals, and hidden hierarchy despite the modernity. SERIOUS MAN contrasts the father/son thing between Jews and non-Jews. The crewcut Nazi father is protective of his son, but the emphasis is on hunting. Physical activity. The bonding ritual between father and son is guns, and while this may have had meaning in the days of the Old West, it is irrelevant in the modern world. As for the Asian father/son, the emphasis is on education and status. The only thing the father cares about is assimilating his son to rise up the social ranks. In contrast, there is the ethno-spiritual bond between Jewish father and son. And this is richer and deeper. Despite the son being a pothead and dufus, something about Jewish identity and culture really seeps into him in the ritual despite(or especially because) he was on Drugs.

    Now, maybe one could argue that Civic Nationalism would be good for all Americans, and ALL Americans should forgo strong C/I and just be committed to All-Americanism. Jews argued that this ideal had been betrayed in the past by Wasp elite privilege and white racial prejudice. So, a New America needed to emerge. This was actually possible because after WWII, most of the Wasp elites sincerely committed themselves to creating a colorblind and unprejudiced America. A nation of ‘Civilians’ than ‘Sicilians’. They were willing to abandon their traditional privilege in favor of a fairer and more universal kind of Americanism. But this was undermined by blacks and Jews. Blacks soon discovered that even without discriminatory policies, they needed Black Politics to get their share of the pie. Also, as they began to win in sports and beat up whitey, they began to feel supremacist pride as Tough Negroes. As for Jews, they came to practice and guard everything they vilified in the Wasp elites. They gained elite privilege, guarded their tribalism, promoted their identity, and even made US fight Wars for Israel, another country. Just as Wasp elites were willing to forgo the notion that US and UK were special partners and allies due to history and race, Jews were doing everything to convince everyone that Israel is America’s closest ally. And even as Jews attacked white supremacism, they came to believe in their own supremacism as the smarter race that deserves to rule over others.

    The big irony of America today is that even though Wasps get all the blame for the privilege, they actually committed themselves to a colorblind civic America. In contrast, even though Jews do so much complaining about ‘white privilege’, they are the ones who’ve worked tribally to circle the wagons and boost Jewish power and privilege at the expense of all others. Some would argue that this is a Jewish smokescreen to hide their true agenda of tribalism. Jews say that Wasps and white elites hog everything, are being unfair, and betraying the true meaning of Americanism. But Jews are speaking of the past. In the present, Wasps are far more likely to support civic nationalism or universal values than Jews are likely to. After all, Jews insist the US continue to smash Syria and support Israel against Palestinians. And of course, the New Cold War with Russia is 99% a Jewish thing. And all this hate against Iran.

    If elites lead as models and if the two main elites in the US are Jews and Wasps, which group are Americans to follow? Wasps who try to play fair but get blamed for being unfair OR Jews who claim to champion fairness but act totally unfair with their elite power? Since Jews are the more powerful elite, could the future template for all groups be ‘play tribal while blaming OTHERS, especially whites, for all the injustice’? Fish rots from the head.

    • Agree: Mr. Rational
  100. Jefferson says:
    @Travis

    “Funny how the South Americans deny their amerindian heritage and always claim to be 100% European.”

    George Lopez said the women in his family like to dye their hair platinum blonde. The women in his family be ashamed of their Amerindian roots. So much for Brown Pride and Viva La Raza.

  101. Jack D says:
    @Travis

    her mother was furious when she was told her daughter was part amerindian, told us it must be from her husband (who was Italian) because her family was 100% Spanish.

    That’s hilarious. Very few S. Americans are 100% Spanish but in Chile and Argentina there is tremendous denial.

    The disappearance of Indian blood is going exactly the way you would expect it to go if the mates are 0% Indian – they halve in each generation so 26% becomes 13% becomes 6.5%. This is within spitting distance of the actual results. While it is true that you can inherit more or less DNA from one parent or the other, as a practical matter it is usually pretty close to 50/50.

  102. Jack D says:
    @res

    What is interesting is that this is a recurring phenomenon in human history and any Leftist would have no problem recognizing and condemning the obscurantism of the pre-Reformation Church from a mile away.

    But when it comes to themselves, they have zero self-awareness. The social sciences have been nothing BUT obscurantism for decades now – they say ridiculous things that defy all common sense but cloak them in obscure language so that their ridiculousness is not obvious to laymen. But we are entering Phase II where obscurantism is spreading to the hard sciences such as genetics where there is even more potential for damage than the social sciences (not that the social sciences haven’t caused tremendous damage themselves). You are talking about deny people of medical cures, etc. because it would be racist to recognize the reality of their genetic makeup.

    • Agree: res
  103. Jack D says:
    @Pat Boyle

    1/8 is indeed around the point where all visible signs of African ancestry often (but not always) disappear. But if her slave ancestor in 1860 was an octoroon, she would be a Liz Warren by now.

    • Replies: @Jefferson
  104. Pat Boyle says:

    Zimmer is simply using a debating ploy. He is positing himself as an expert in an attempt to intimidate his opposition. In fact you don’t have to know much about genetics at all to grasp that Warren if she has and Amerindian admixture at all it is tiny and she was trying to cheat the system. Those are the incontrovertible facts. She’s scum.

  105. @Elsewhere

    Wasn’t me. I have three prepubescents, so I can’t make many events, and have to put off “dirt naps” for as long as I can.

  106. Coemgen says:
    @Tiny Duck

    Why don’t “white girls” migrate to subsaharan africa?

    1. They would be making subsaharan africa more diverse.

    2. They would find plenty of “Black Man DNA” there.

    What’s stopping them from leaving Trump’s evil empire?

  107. @Alec Leamas

    You mean west, since Atlantic City is on the shore

  108. @Jack D

    I thought when the egg and the sperm come together, the DNA from each unravels and recombines to form a new creature. One strand from mom, one from dad. How is that different from 50/50?

    • Replies: @Jack D
    , @Travis
  109. Borrowing from the Jay Sherman book of book promotion.

  110. res says:
    @Jack D

    While it is true that you can inherit more or less DNA from one parent or the other, as a practical matter it is usually pretty close to 50/50.

    From parents it is always 50/50 (complete chromosomes from each). The probabilistic aspect comes in across two or more generations because of recombination in the chromosomes passed along to the next generation.

    What I think you are trying to say is that the amount of DNA associated with each race passed from a mixed parent to a child can vary from 50/50 because of differing proportions coming from each grandparent.

    This graphic gives an idea of the widths of the probability distributions: https://gcbias.org/2013/11/04/how-much-of-your-genome-do-you-inherit-from-a-particular-ancestor/

  111. Jack D says:
    @stillCARealist

    You are thinking of the process by which DNA replicates itself. Humans have 23 pairs of chromosomes – you get 23 chromosomes from one parent and 23 from the other. 22 of the pairs are identical in that each contains the same genes in the same places, but code for different traits. 1 pair is the sex genes – either XX or XY. There is some exchange in the process by which the chromosomes pair up (meiosis)- this (I think) accounts for the fact that it is not precisely 50/50.

    • Replies: @Eagle Eye
  112. Zimmer is another nut bag Jew. He’s a professional “Scientific Blogger and Journalist.” Anything that doesn’t agree with the Basic Jew Theory of the Universe is wrong. He hates Trump and hates anything that would even mention HBD. His DNA analysis shows him to be 50% Ashkanazi and 50% European. He has a scientific background and just enough knowledge to be dangerous and always ends up basically repeating the Bolshevik strategy that Hitler is behind anything in science he doesn’t understand.

    Our old boy Khan on the other hand appears to be changing his tune since he left Unz. I don’t know if he finished his PhD or not. Something is very strange about this since he’s trying to generate well “I didn’t really write that stuff for Unz.” If you read his stuff on his people and other brown people he sounds like a sick leftist blaming Western Civilization for all of our problems. I don’t know if he must do this to finish his PhD or not. Politics is sad whore for the scientist.

  113. Eagle Eye says:
    @Jack D

    There is some exchange in the process by which the chromosomes pair up (meiosis)- this (I think) accounts for the fact that it is not precisely 50/50.

    Correct – many “science” articles in the press omit or obscure this vital step in the formation of sperm/ova. Meiosis between paired chromosomes to form a new single chromosome enables “good” genes to be unpackaged from less favorable genes on the same chromosome.

    An interesting corollary is that a girl inherits her father’s X chromosome unchanged since the father has no second X chromosome to meiose with. The father’s X resulted from meiosis of the paternal grandmother’s pair of Xs.

    • Agree: Mr. Rational
  114. anonymous[404] • Disclaimer says: • Website
    @Peripatetic commenter

    Considering that a larger percentage of Amerindians than non-Hispanic Whites identify as libertarians and vote Libertarian Party (according to LPD Facebook), and detest Warren’s/far-left economic crackpot/social-race equality nostrums, I think Warren definitely has the wrong DNA.

    They have no desire to be wiped out by the far-left ‘socialist’ racial egalitarian melting pot or have their affairs decided top-down by ‘social democratic planners’ in DC. As one put it ‘been there, done that.’

  115. anonymous[404] • Disclaimer says: • Website
    @eddy wobegon

    FYI Steve Unz and pals, I see an increase since 2017 in NYT and other left-media sources calling http://www.unz.com a far- or even alt-right /fascist /corporate / racist etc. mouthpiece.

    Just want to share that as a progressive libertarian with a left background that I think they’re nuts. Unz.com stays on-mission of providing unusual data and a left-right range of unusual opinion and I think your e-archive project of unusual or hard-to-find books, magazines, etc. is fabulous. I just hope you’re setting up an NPO to continue the project indefinitely. When I think of your personal labor-of-love work involved I’m amazed.

    I know a lot of L/libertarians who think so as well. I’ve also audited college classes where left professors direct their students to your archive as a research shortcut. Your Alternative Media Blogroll that starts with Antiwar.com and Counterpunch is not exactly suggestive of a StormFront organ. The NYT etc. claims are unjust.

    I second eddy wobegon–Keep up the fight.

  116. @Emblematic

    “The conclusion is that trying to revive indigenous life is a great folly unless you have the stomach to cut them off from modernity all together and treat them almost like fauna in a game reserve, and even then it would probably fail.”

    I would love it if half a dozen contiguous historic English and Welsh counties – say Shropshire, Herefordshire, Gloucestershire, Monmouth, Brecon and Radnor – were declared a tribal reserve for people of English and Welsh descent only. They would instantly become the most popular places in the country to start a business or a family.

    • Agree: Mr. Rational
  117. @Old Palo Altan

    “Well then, how about Jewish Nazis like Field Marshal Erhard Milch?”

    Milch? Milch? So he’s alt-right as well ?

    • LOL: Mr. Rational
  118. Bill B. says:
    @Holden McGroin III

    I identify as a Cherokee princess

    Dear Outsider,

    thank you for your interest in the Cherokee Nation.

    We regret to inform you that the Princess quota is currently full. You have been assigned to another quota category that provides you with an intense experience and a guarantee of status stability.

    Please identify yourself to the guard at the back door with your new Cherokee name “Golagi Nigesvna” and you will receive the treatment that you deserve.

    Warm regards,

    Chief of Representation,
    Cherokee Nation

  119. “Your biological family tree exists in some kind of Platonic realm. (Don’t ask me what.) Ten generations ago in your family tree, there are 1024 slots that somebody (not necessarily 1024 separate individuals) filled. Not 1023 slots, not 1025 slots, but 1024.”

    Steve, you are assuming the DNA of any and all of the 64 to 1,024 ancestors has an equal probability of surving through to successive generations. In fact, you are assuming each contribution of DNA will survive through the generations.

    If Warren’s Indigenous DNA was less hardy, she might be far more Indigenous than the results suggest: If the Indigenous DNA were more hardy, then she might be even far less Indigenous than the 1/64th to 1/1,024th suggests.

    Her faults lie not in her self, but in her genes.

    • LOL: Mr. Rational
  120. Travis says:
    @stillCARealist

    you do get 50% from each parent…but this does not equate to 25% from each grandparent.

    while my wife is 12% Native American, her Brother is actually 14% Native American. One would expect both siblings to be 13% Native American because the mother is 26% Indian.

    With my children we observe a similar difference among siblings. One Child is 7% Native American and the other is 5%. Once Child obtained 27% of his DNA from his Maternal Grandmother, just 23% from his maternal Grandfather…while the other obtained 26% from one and 24% from the other….very rarely will it be exactly 25% from each grandparent.

  121. @Peripatetic commenter

    If A.W.F. Edwards of Cambridge University was right, then not even Richard Lewontin believed his own work!:

    Edwards “asserts that Lewontin was using his analysis to support a social position and undermine race as a scientifically valid construct.”

    https://books.google.com/books?id=KKrsBcU_DikC&pg=PA76&dq=%22Lewontin%27s+Fallacy%22&hl=en&ei=JQIeTo-DBcXXiALGhe3-CA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=6&ved=0CEQQ6AEwBQ#v=onepage&q=%22Lewontin’s%20Fallacy%22&f=false

  122. Elizabeth Warren is a very talented lawyer who specialized in bankruptcy law. She rose effortlessly through the ranks. Yesterday I thought she was ill-advised to take and publicize a DNA test. A distant ancestor of hers was a feather Indian. In Oklahoma where she was born and grew up claiming some Indian background is very common as Steve has pointed out. She is wisely in favor of single-payer health insurance and not in the pockets of the military-industrial interests. If she wasn’t for Open Borders I would gladly vote for her. I don’t know if she is a neo-con like Hillary in which case I wouldn’t vote for her either. I realize now that she was well-advised to take and publicize her DNA test. Popeye famously said “I yam what I yam.” Faux-cohontas means to run for president in which case her dossier will be ferreted out in the course of the campaign and if it cannot be, it may be inferred that she ticked one or more boxes as a POC on her swift rise to the top for extra Pokemon points on the application form. Those were such innocent times. So that/those mistake/mistakes of judgment need to be papered over. Warren can then take a piece of paper out of her pocket during a debate, like Sen. Joe MacCarthy, and obfuscate. Warren is a Hillary with at least 1 SD more brain power. Don’t underestimate her.

    • LOL: Mr. Rational
  123. Antonius says:
    @Tiny Duck

    They must have the same affection for brillo haired baboons as you do, you insignificant [email protected]

    • Replies: @Mr. Rational
    , @Reg Cæsar
  124. Knox says:
    @Travis

    Flight to white in South America…the mestizo deny their Amerindian ancestry as the higher status Latinos are Europeans.

  125. “… That means we inherit about a quarter of our DNA from each grandparent — but only on average. Any one person may inherit more DNA from one grandparent and less from another.

    Over generations, this randomness can lead to something remarkable. Look back far enough in your family tree, and you’ll encounter ancestors from whom you inherit no DNA at all.”

    My mother did a DNA test for ethnic background, I did one, and my grandson did one.

    Mom is about 27% of a European ethnic minority with a distinguishing DNA profile. Because of what we know about her parentage we expected 25%. But only if everything is inherited equally. I came in at about 17%. More than half. Unexpected because my father’s side being very unlikely to have contributed any. My grandson didn’t get any of these markers instead of about 23% if my contribution were evenly inherited. And yes, he is my grandson. We were matched through other protocols.

  126. Russ says:
    @Pat Boyle

    “She was just another white bread Caucasian who made up a more exotic little fable about herself that was consonant with her politics.

    Little girls make up little stories.”

    Reminds me of her sister-in-party, who claimed to have been named for Sir Edmund Hilary — except that she was already three years old when her pseudo-namesake scaled Everest.

    Reminds me also of a certain mulatto who, though Hawaiian-born, was more than happy to let his publicist twist that into “Kenyan-born” to sell the autobiography.

  127. Jefferson says:
    @Jack D

    “1/8 is indeed around the point where all visible signs of African ancestry often (but not always) disappear.”

    Rashida Jones has way more than 1/8 African ancestry.

  128. Jefferson says:
    @Jack D

    “That’s hilarious. Very few S. Americans are 100% Spanish but in Chile and Argentina there is tremendous denial.”

    Argentinians who are in denial about their Amerindian ancestry do not want to be racially lumped in with Bolivians, similar to how Dominicans who are in denial about their African ancestry do not want to be racially lumped in with Haitians.

  129. Jefferson says:

    What type of Native American brings mayonnaise to a Pow Wow? A White woman like Elizabeth Warren that’s who.

    I LMFAO when I read she brought the ultimate White people food to a Pow Wow. That’s how you know she is not culturally Native American in addition to not being genetically Native American.

  130. Your DNA today is massively influenced by who those 1024 were, but it’s not a perfect replication due to the lumpiness of the process.

    But it seems to me that what is important in inheritance is not DNA, but specific genes located on specific chromosomes, and specifically dominant genes. For example my daughter born in 2012 has a marked facial resemblance to photographs and paintings of my dead ancestors on my father’s side of the family going back as far as the 1830′s.

    Native American genes may not have had any significant effect on who Elizabeth Warren is today, but they could have, particularly if she had married a Native American and contributed her genetic material to the offspring.

  131. @Antonius

    They must have the same affection for brillo haired baboons as you do, you insignificant [email protected]

    I believe the avian term is cloaca.

    • LOL: Mr. Rational
  132. @Trevor H.

    In defence of the Red Sea Pedestrians, their peak bodies are kinda locked-in to the genetic hypothesis – because that’s the basis on which they assert a claim to Palestine.

    If genetics proceeds along the lines asserted in the story (i.e., that you may have zero genetic contribution from an ancestor who is only 6 generations distant), then the “Yahweh promised us this land” schtick becomes even less tenable.

    “Even less tenable” is saying something, given that one of the core assumptions is the existence of a Sky Maniac who is obsessed with genital mutilation and blood sacrifice.

    It severely undermines the claims of the Eurotrash (and Russotrash) segment of the invaders of Palestine – even assuming that the Khazar hypothesis is false (which is unlikely).

  133. To understand the percentages, you have to look at the nuts and bolts of chromosomes. There’s 22 autosomal chromosomes. Normal adult cells have 44. They aren’t labeled with parent source. To make a gamete (sperm or ovum) there’s a process called reduction division in which one of each pair is thrown away. It’s essentially flipping 22 coins. If the result is all heads or all tails, it corresponds to making the child effectively the child of one grandparent. But this is obviously extremely rare (one in about 4 million). Odds are the gamete will have 50% from each parent, with a little random component.

    This random variation is why we can’t pin down Warren’s NA ancestry to a definite generation.

    Traditional thinking, shared by early racist Southerners, is that one gene from an African totally taints the individual (the “touch of the tarbrush” theory). This has thankfully died out. A WASP Southerner second cousin had the 23&Me test and came up with around 1% Subsaharan African. This would have appalled our DAR grandmothers, but my cousin wasn’t bothered at all. Good on her.

    In colonial times, Native American ancestry was stigmatized. It’s a healthy change that people aren’t bothered by it. The one exception was Pocahontas. She has always been cool.

  134. Anonymous[427] • Disclaimer says:
    @Jack D

    Hiram as a first name means the father was probably a Freemason, after “Hiram Abiff”.

    Hiram P. Maxim founded the Amateur Radio Relay League, and amateur radio has long had a higher than average number of Freemasons in it, for whatever reason.

  135. Most bullies kind of wilt when confronted. Trump is the rare bully who thrives in confrontation. Warren has terrible instincts when it comes to confronting Trump making her a terrible match up. Remember when she called Kristen Gillibrand a slut to own Drumpfththhtht?

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