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Yglesias: "'The Bell Curve' Set the Stage for Trumpist Immigration Policy"
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Matthew Yglesias has finally gotten around to reading the 1994 bestseller The Bell Curve and he has some things he wants to say about it. From Vox:

The Bell Curve is about policy. And it’s wrong.

Charles Murray is an incredibly successful — and pernicious — policy entrepreneur.
By Matthew [email protected]@vox.com Apr 10, 2018, 8:00am EDT

… The Bell Curve set the stage for Trumpist immigration policy

You can tell that Trump undoubtedly keeps his dog-eared copy of The Bell Curve on his bedside table from all the times he suddenly starts talking about standard deviations.

Unlike on social welfare policy, Murray does not outline a specific immigration policy agenda. But in chapter 15, he writes that “the rules that currently govern immigration provide the other major source of dysgenic pressure” and remarks enigmatically that while earlier waves of immigrants may have been beneficial, “the self-selection process that used to attract the classic American immigrant — brave, hard working, imaginative, self-starting, and often of high IQ — has been changing and with it the nature of some of the immigrant population.”

He complains that “the nation’s political ground rules have yet to accept that the intelligence of immigrants is a legitimate topic for policymakers to think about” and eventually concludes “the kernel of evidence that must also be acknowledged is that Latin and black immigrants are, at least in the short run, putting some downward pressure on the distribution of intelligence.”

Murray’s intellectual influence on the current trajectory of American immigration policy is obvious. His warning about the dysgenic impact of Latin American and African immigration is echoed by President Trump, who recently remarked that there are too many arrivals from “shithole” countries, and in the Republican Party’s ongoing conversion to the cause of sharp cuts in legal immigration. Trump’s immigration proposals do not specifically reference IQ, but his drive for a switch to what he terms a “merit-based” immigration system is clearly animated by a Murray-esque concern that the wrong kind of people are moving to the US.

I’d say to be less wrong, Matt should say:

The Bell Curve set the stage for Justin Trudeauvian immigration policy

Of course, Trumpist immigration policy is a lot like Canadian immigration policy in that both explicitly try to benefit the current citizens. But, for some reason, it’s fine for Canada to do that, but WRONG for America to do that because of the Zeroth Amendment carved on the Statue of Liberty.

 
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  1. Can anyone else no longer see commenter comment histories? When I click my own name I get unz message: “We’re sorry, that page cannot be found”. Same thing when I click anyone else’s name.

    Ron Unz, please do the needful.

    Read More
    • Agree: Buzz Mohawk
    • Replies: @Malcolm X-Lax
    Nope. I had been wondering the same thing.

    And compared to what Trump proposes for US immigration, Israel is Nazi Germany. And yet the vast majority of liberal and even left-wing Jews are either silent or supportive of the Israel demographic status quo.

    , @Randal

    Ron Unz, please do the needful.
     
    It's all in hand - see Ron Unz comments here:

    http://www.unz.com/article/how-israel-and-its-partisans-work-to-censor-the-internet/#comment-2280647


    Yes, our website was hit by an exceptionally large wave of bots from a very wide variety of different IP addresses, and it began soon after we released this particular article. Perhaps coincidence, perhaps not.

    We finally managed to block them all earlier this morning using some temporary measures. I’ll be spending the next day or two adding some further defenses in hopes of preventing something like this from happening in the future.
     
    and here:

    http://www.unz.com/pgiraldi/liars-lying-about-nearly-everything-2/#comment-2282354

    It’s now back online.

    And the /comments/ pages are also still temporarily blocked until I finish adding some powerful additional protections against large bot-waves, probably by the end of today.
     
    , @Ali Choudhury
    Same here.
    , @dr kill
    All our comments were seized when the Feds put boots to the doors over at Cohen's house. Do you think Steve was out of business yesterday because he chose to close? Hmmmmm?
    , @Clyde

    Can anyone else no longer see commenter comment histories? When I click my own name I get unz message: “We’re sorry, that page cannot be found”. Same thing when I click anyone else’s name.
     
    Recently this feature comes and goes. It seems that Ron's software has trouble implementing it the past week. Perhaps because site is under low level attack? But this self search has always been slow, so maybe a flaw.
    And guess what. Self search just worked for me a minute ago. I am sure it will start failing again.
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  2. I’m pretty sure that Canada’s immigration system predates Trudeau the Second.

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    • Replies: @DCThrowback
    https://imgur.com/gallery/U7Ghu2s
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  3. It’s unclear whether Yglesias is arguing that Murray’s assertions about average group intelligence are factually wrong, whether Trump allegedly basing his immigration policy on Murray’s conclusions is morally wrong, or both. In any event, Yglesias is wrong.

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    • Replies: @Pat Boyle
    Yglesias has a selective memory. Or he is lying to make a point.

    When I first read "The Bell Curve" I remarked to my friends about how few new ideas were actually in it. It was clearly written and well organized but it was only new if you had been dozing for decades.

    Yglesias is trying to brand Murray as the single source of the infection. So his acolytes can go after him with torches and pitchforks. But it's too late. Were Murray to evaporate or melt like the Wicked Witch it wouldn't matter. His ideas have been read and assimilated.

    His heresy isn't just old enough to vote it's old enough for Social Security.
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  4. Anonymous[347] • Disclaimer says:

    I had rather hoped that you would have had some more substantial comments on the Yglesias article. Perhaps in an upcoming Taki’s column?

    Also, am I missing something or does Yglesias not actually address Murray and Herrnstein’s claim that current social policy is effectively dysgenic?

    Personally, I think it would be good to have more intelligent, productive and law-abiding people in society, as opposed to more stupid, unproductive and law-breaking people, and since a big part of what determines that is who your biological parents are (as e.g. sperm donation seekers are well aware) it would be good for the government to put some thought into this.

    Remember Tavon White, head of the Baltimore prison system BGF, who appeared on iSteve a few years ago? He had something like 4 children with female prison guards alone, and he had at least one baby mama on the outside. Whereas Richard Feynman had 2 children and John von Neumann had 1. Funny how that works.

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    • Replies: @MEH 0910

    Whereas Richard Feynman had 2 children and John von Neumann had 1.
     
    Feynman's daughter was adopted.
    , @AnotherDad

    Personally, I think it would be good to have more intelligent, productive and law-abiding people in society, as opposed to more stupid, unproductive and law-breaking people, and since a big part of what determines that is who your biological parents are (as e.g. sperm donation seekers are well aware) it would be good for the government to put some thought into this.
     
    Racist!

    Seriously, don't you know that while this seems like ordinary common sense--the basic folk wisdom people have understood for millennia--it has been disproven by Hitler?
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  5. Several years ago Greg Hood noted that the debate over immigration policy is a disguised debate over race. The growing (and by now nearly overwhelming) evidence that there are stark differences in cognitive ability according to race, gives the immigration debate an especially edgy character.

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    • Replies: @songbird
    One measure of how cucked society actually is is how quickly so many add the qualifier that they are not against legal immigration, only illegal. It could not be more transparent that they really know it is about race and are afraid of being called "racists."
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  6. Matty Y. was clearly not meant to make a living as a writer. Every day must be a tortuous struggle.

    Why don’t we pool together a Kickstarter so he can take a Gap Year to “find himself” and find something else to do?

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  7. Canada’s policy would be an improvement, but let’s also be wary not to import a foreign managerial elite.

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  8. Deep inside Matthew Yglesias (& even Ezra Klein) know that Murray is right. Therefore, they can not ignore Mr. Murray and must continuously attack Murray’s findings & possible policy implications of being blasphemous, I mean racist.

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    • Agree: bomag
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  9. It sounds like Charles Murray’s views on immigration went from the bell curve to expansionary to more restrictionist

    https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/charles-murray-immigration-john-derbyshire/

    https://www.nationalreview.com/2016/09/charles-murray-immigration-restriction-needed/

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  10. Is anyone else sick of the “badthought thing from the past explains the bad stuff happening now” genre of journalism.

    None of them appear to know where Trump, the “alt-right,” or whatever bad thing came from, so they cast about for pre-established wrong things from the past. Things “everybody knows” are racist and don’t have to be re-argued.

    Which is convenient, because it saves you the trouble of demonstrating Trump is wrong. “Everybody knows” the Bell Curve Curve is wrong, Trump is the Bell Curve, therefore Trump is wrong.

    They could look for the real reasons they’re not winning all the time anymore. For instance, decades of unpopular immigration, war, and trade policy. But who wants to be introspective?

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  11. One laments that Yglesias’ polar bear hunters were such lousy hunters.

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    • LOL: BenKenobi
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  12. This jerk thinks that Charles Murray invented borders, Nazis, and you name it, because, you know, he’s BAD.

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  13. @27 year old
    Can anyone else no longer see commenter comment histories? When I click my own name I get unz message: "We're sorry, that page cannot be found". Same thing when I click anyone else's name.

    Ron Unz, please do the needful.

    Nope. I had been wondering the same thing.

    And compared to what Trump proposes for US immigration, Israel is Nazi Germany. And yet the vast majority of liberal and even left-wing Jews are either silent or supportive of the Israel demographic status quo.

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  14. That`s how many articles filled with nothing but kvetching over IQ question already?
    Oh how they are shwitzing, absolutely glorious.

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  15. @27 year old
    Can anyone else no longer see commenter comment histories? When I click my own name I get unz message: "We're sorry, that page cannot be found". Same thing when I click anyone else's name.

    Ron Unz, please do the needful.

    Ron Unz, please do the needful.

    It’s all in hand – see Ron Unz comments here:

    http://www.unz.com/article/how-israel-and-its-partisans-work-to-censor-the-internet/#comment-2280647

    Yes, our website was hit by an exceptionally large wave of bots from a very wide variety of different IP addresses, and it began soon after we released this particular article. Perhaps coincidence, perhaps not.

    We finally managed to block them all earlier this morning using some temporary measures. I’ll be spending the next day or two adding some further defenses in hopes of preventing something like this from happening in the future.

    and here:

    http://www.unz.com/pgiraldi/liars-lying-about-nearly-everything-2/#comment-2282354

    It’s now back online.

    And the /comments/ pages are also still temporarily blocked until I finish adding some powerful additional protections against large bot-waves, probably by the end of today.

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  16. Well, we could always base our immigration policy on Who We Are and How We Got Here. In the long run the principle is the same, and it is included our Preamble: What do we want for our Posterity?

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  17. @27 year old
    Can anyone else no longer see commenter comment histories? When I click my own name I get unz message: "We're sorry, that page cannot be found". Same thing when I click anyone else's name.

    Ron Unz, please do the needful.

    Same here.

    Read More
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  18. OT but not really:

    Donald Trump has moved the Overton Window in our favor. So, at least as it pertains to immigration, the Overton Window is not our problem. The problem is that the determination of the American people to assert our self-determination and protect our human capital is pretty marginal, really. If we had that determination, we could get the policies we need to implement it (e-Verify, the wall, birthright citizenship, whatever). Without that determination, those policies would be undermined and rendered ineffective even if we had them, which we don’t.

    This the backdrop to yesterday, wherein the US Attorney’s office for the Southern District of New York raided the office, house, and hotel of Donald Trump’s personal attorney. There’s a thousand possibilities relating to the motivations and consequences of this, and none of them are good.

    Among other things, if this is the Deep State going rogue, as has been suggested, this is not Mueller or the FBI (which has also been suggested). No this is the main Justice Dept which did this, including Rosenstein and maybe even Sessions (plus of course a judge to sign the warrant). There are a lot of institutional safeguards to prevent this from happening as a matter of routine business, so I’d venture that at the very least there’s some prosecutor with a very solid set of facts to associate Michael Cohen with some kind of criminal activity.

    For me, the key question is what is that criminal activity? From what I’ve seen so far, it could be Stormy Daniels, it could be taxicab medallions in NYC, or it could be something bigger that we haven’t heard of yet. Now, here’s the thing: if it is Stormy Daniels, which is as good a guess as any right now, that is a horrible prosecutorial overreach. But, we don’t have any good countermoves for it.

    Essentially, the way that’s likely to shake down is, yeah, Cohen is guilty and Trump is guilty but they really shouldn’t have raided a lawyer’s office. Are we really going to get any traction from that? I’m doubting it.

    There’s other bad consequences as well. First of all, the main play is that Cohen flips on Trump, and implicates the President in some kind of criminal activity, in exchange for immunity or reduced sentence for himself. But there’s another angle which I suspect might end up being even more important. Even if Cohen refuses to cooperate, or doesn’t know anything, or is protected from implicating Trump by attorney-client privilege, there’s still all the documents, email, spreadsheets, online account info etc., now in possession of Mueller or the US Attorney’s office to be referred to Mueller as the case may be.

    Now here’s where I’m not completely confident, but my guess is, that even if Cohen’s testimony isn’t available or can’t be used against Trump, whatever is in those documents can and will.

    If had better Establishment connections, he’d have better lawyers and he wouldn’t be getting rolled up through My Cousin Vinny.

    As it pertains to us, we’re at risk of losing support in the public opinion for Trump and the GOP. This is what kills us. We’ve got no margin to spare. The determination of the American people to assert our self-determination is weak enough as it is, without Trump weakening it further for unrelated reasons. A populist/conservative coalition is a winning hand in American politics right now. We can’t afford to let Trump screw it up on his own crap.

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    • Replies: @Sunbeam
    A theory.

    I'd say the problem with it is no one really believes the mainstream media any more. They are that ridiculous. Literally the morning talk shows start now by playing what Jimmy Kimmel or Steven Colbert did on their monologue last night.

    Better be a heck of a smoking gun. Do you really think anyone at all is going to get their knickers in a twist if Stormy Daniels was paid off?

    They'll bleat about it on the news, make jokes on the talk shows. The only people who will care or pay attention are the people that want to experience Trump hate enough to watch that Trevor Noah show.

    Tell you what though. I'd absolutely love it if a special counsel was named to investigate Mueller. And Comey. And...

    Use exactly the same tactics, and engage in a perpetual dirt digging operation.
    , @BB753
    This is about Syria. Neocons want Assad dead. No matter what. And they won't let Trump stand in their way of invading the world, now that's he's partially ruined their other pet cause: inviting the world.
    If I were Trump I'd go medieval on tbeir asses with executive orders and whatever support he still has in the military. Trump has been facing a coup ever since he got to the White House. It's time for him to stage a counter-coup.
    , @Lot
    "So, at least as it pertains to immigration, the Overton Window is not our problem."

    In political races, sure. Republicans can and do win advocating solid restrictionist policies. In elite circles, definitely not. Here is an article comparing donations in 2012 to 2016 of employees of elite law firms and investment banks.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/06/opinion/trump-lawyers-elites.html

    In 2012 Romney received 42% of these donations. In 2016, Trump received less than 1%, only 40 donations out of 4812. While Romney's elite background and positions compared to Trump among these elites partly explains this, populism isn't -that- unpopular among elites, nor 100-1 less popular than Hillary-ism. The difference is that these people, who are working-age ambitious elites still running the rat race, are scared to make a public donation to Trump.

    This is why Trump's boorish behavior is so concerning. It got him votes and let him beat Jeb and Rubio amd Hillary, but it helped make him and immigrantion restriction even more toxic in elite circles, which explains why now that he is in office he has been so ineffective at doing much more than cutting the taxes of the rich and appointing judges who are largely former corporate lawyers or Koch-network functionaries.

    I don't mean to blame Trump completely, but he made a pre-existing trend worse for sure.
    , @Ozymandias
    "...now in possession of Mueller or the US Attorney’s office to be referred to Mueller as the case may be."

    Or leaked at the appropriate time. The Deep State has just illegally seized ALL of the President's private communications with his lawyer. It's a naked attempt to overthrow the legally elected government.
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  19. Doubtful.

    Matt, is looking in the wrong direction. Trump is basically a old school Democrat populist in many respects. Pro American worker, pro-trade that benefits us, secure borders and enforcing immigration law. All this stuff resonated with the white blue collars and middle-class who had been abandoned by both parties since the mid-90′s when they embraced globalization and the high IQ white cosmopolitans.

    Trump and company don’t need to have read Murray to know we’ve gotten millions of 3rd world serfs and scumbags that will be on the welfare rolls forever and so will their kids. The effects of illegal immigration are all around us now.

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  20. 1994 called, it wants its crimethink back! Of course, TBC is still very, very relevant.

    This is what Princess Sparkles of the North wishes Canada to become. It’s all about assembling a great team, getting the right people on the bus. To make the perfect country, he would like it to be overpopulated, corrupt, clannish, with a Chinese overclass and enough Muslims to make things interesting.

    The main point of TBC was that it worried about the brewing numbers of 130+ IQ Cossacks out in flyover country noticing Every. Single. Time… and giving them good grounds for riding again. And this is what “intellectuals” like Yglesias are intent on creating. (And Harvard et al for the matter with their AA.)

    Yggdrasil says it best.

    https://www.whitenationalism.com/ms/ms-01.htm

    I would like to quote it here, but I think it’s a bit too long and spoils the way he lays it out. But it is very much worth reading in its entirety, as it discusses TBC, what H&M were worried about and why.

    Fellow 100+ IQ Cossacks out there, get yourselves a white wife and have yourself some white children. 130+ IQ Cossacks, have a lot.

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  21. “By the same token, Karl Marx’s work is full of observations that are well within the consensus of the economics profession…”

    His whole framework is built on the labor theory of value, which economists rejected right around the time Das Kapital was published. He also argued that profits would fall to zero, which no economist believes. Without these mechanisms, the whole business about revolution and surplus value goes away.

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    • Replies: @J.Ross
    If there's one line that suggests this guy is talking into his propeller beanie and unlikely to have expected any editing when writing it, it's putting forth a "consensus of economist opinion." I would be scared to do so. When the Western establishment economists thought that people starving and freezing to death in recently de-Communized Eastern Europe sounded fair, there existed equally credentialled economists who interrupted that consensus. Economics is politics hiding behind math and you can get any economic judgment you want by identifying the ideology of the economist. If there's a worse line, it's connecting that consensus to Marx. I still remember the Nation special anniversary edition (I had a subscription in high school), where a number of leftist scholars put forth pronouncements on how Marx had aged. Most of them agreed that plenty of his ideas were wrong or needed serious updating, with one guy planting his feet in the idea that Marx was just as right and just as important. I'm guessing rightist and libertarian economists would have added to the objections, and gone further by disputing the idea, universally accepted by the special edition group, that Marx was significant and morally good regardless of his failures.
    With that being said it is entirely possible, and even likely, that Marx's works were full of reasonable observations. Marx wasn't an economist, after all, he was a nineteenth century social critic essayist like Zola or (later but the same shtick) Gorky. It is even possible that those reasonable observations do not bear out the arguments they are supposed to illustrate. But nobody needs to worry about things like that when you talk about "settled science" or "scholarly consensus."
    , @guest
    Marx based his economic theory largely on Ricardo, with a few important twists. Though not all of Ricardo has survived, his system forms part of the basis for the neoclassical school, which along with Keynesianism dominates academic economics in the West.

    Of course, Marx's twists make all the difference. But he never completed his system, despite promising to do so. No one else has, either, and everyone knows it.
    , @Charles Erwin Wilson II
    Agree.
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  22. Of course, Trumpist immigration policy is a lot like Canadian immigration policy in that both explicitly try to benefit the current citizens.

    You’re a funny guy, Steve.

    Trumpist immigration policy is surreptitiously exporting tens of thousands of US-domiciled “refugees” into Canada.

    Canadian immigration policy is welcoming all these Haitians, Somalis, Nigerians, Salvadorans etc from the US.

    When it was Harper and Obama, Canada’s total immigration/refugee rate was about double that of the US. Now that it’s Trudeau and Trump, it’s more like triple, or maybe even quadruple the US rate.

    Trump is explicitly trying to benefit the current citizens of the US, while Trudeau is actively trying to replace the current citizens of Canada. Patriot > Traitor.

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  23. OT:

    And then they came for The Simpsons – though to the show’s credit, they basically tell the SJWs to go to hell.

    It’s fun to watch the old guard liberals get taken down by their own children. That said, I was a big fan of the Simpsons in the early 90s.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/apr/10/simpsons-apu-stereotype-racism-south-asian-fans

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    • Replies: @Samuel Skinner
    The Simpsons was a satire and attack on American values; it is a sad testament to how far the country has degenerated that the original episodes now appear to be support for American values because of how far left everything has shifted.
    , @AndrewR

    Like most Simpsons writers, the creators of Harold and Kumar were white guys, Jon Hurwitz and Hayden Schlossberg
     
    White. Mhmm. Yep. I bet they're both descended from everyone on the Mayflower.

    In Kondabolu’s film, he speaks to the former Simpsons writer Dana Gould, who says that “there are accents that by their nature, to white Americans, I can only speak from experience, sound funny”. The joke was too hard to resist, even if it was only funny to one ethnic group.
     
    Are we really supposed to assume that non-white Americans don't tend to find Apu's accent amusing?
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  24. Btw, I tried to listen to the Sam Harris/Ezra Klein podcast. Made it for about 30-45 minutes and stopped. Both guys really like to hear themselves talk. (Klein has a very punchable voice.) Regardless, it was mostly Harris saying that Klein needs to address the science and data and Klein saying you can’t look at the science and data without considering history and feelings.

    If anyone around here thinks that the science will change minds, you’ve got another thing coming.

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    • Replies: @larry lurker

    Btw, I tried to listen to the Sam Harris/Ezra Klein podcast. Made it for about 30-45 minutes and stopped.
     
    I'm about to give it a shot while hiking. It feels kind of wrong listening to something so toxic while out in nature...

    I don't know what the hell they could be talking about for two damn hours. We'll see if I have to tap out.

    ... and Klein saying you can’t look at the science and data without considering history and feelings.
     
    The spirit of Stephen Jay Gould lives on. Ugh.
    , @Chief Seattle
    A friend recommended Sam Harris to me before the recent Klein tussle. First thought was this is a guy who thinks he is a lot smarter than he actually is. Later realization was that this is one of the few podcasts that is better at 1.5x speed. Sam talks really slow.
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  25. For the life of me, I never understood why The Bell Curve was considered such a big deal. When it came out, I remember saying to myself “Hmm…I see Herrnstein’s now decided to republish his big Atlantic article of twenty-odd years earlier in book form, and picked up Charles Murray as a coauthor.” I remember being utterly shocked when Murray claimed the issues were entirely new to him, given the gigantic flap The Atlantic piece had originally generated, along with the earlier article in Harvard Educational Review by Jensen.

    If young Yglesias weren’t so totally ignorant, he would have cited Peter Brimelow’s Alien Nation book of that same year as the plausible underlying inspiration for Trump’s immigration policies.

    But the really important and innovative book that came out around that same time was Phil Rushton’s Race, Evolution & Behavior, for which he surely deserved a Nobel Prize…

    (And the Comment Archives will be back online shortly once I’ve finished adding some additional defenses against the massive bot-wave we experienced very early yesterday morning.)

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    • Agree: Peter Johnson
    • Replies: @J.Ross
    I suggest that the Bell Curve is a big deal to them because they have heard of it. It is the most logical culprit in their cosmology. Compare the idea that the NRA is richer than any other lobby, invented the Second Amendment in the Seventies, and controls every Congresscritter against their will. I don't think I've seen the Bell Curve connected causally to immigration policy this starkly before (I was under the impression that Murray was a pretty libertarian guy and would be for relatively open borders). If Yglesias were asked to demonstrate lawmaker familiarity with the book as a way of proving his idea, I bet he would either stumble, or hide behind an obscure speech that didn't hold water.
    Thank you for keeping up with the bot issue.
    , @Anonymous

    If young Yglesias weren’t so totally ignorant, he would have cited Peter Brimelow’s Alien Nation book of that same year as the plausible underlying inspiration for Trump’s immigration policies.
     
    It must make Steve feel like quite an old man to read Matt Yglesias, whose work he's been writing about intermittently since 2004 or so, still being described as "young"!
    , @Mompara
    No. Herrnstein's Atlantic article did not deal with race per se, and The Bell Curve had the massive (for the time) NLSY dataset. It was and remains a big deal.
    , @guest
    Publicity phenomena like what happened with the Bell Curve are hard to explain. I guess sometimes the MSM and academia need an object of Two-Minute Hate.
    , @Redmen
    Oh please, oh please don’t take my Unz reader away. Best place on the internet.

    BTW-Lew Rockwell (my other American hero) is linking to Sailer at a furious rate. And who wouldn’t?

    But what’s up with over 300 comments on the blonde-dyed asian chick? With all that’s going on right now I think this is not a topic of concern.
    , @dr kill
    Matty has an excuse, he hit his head when he was Polar-Beared.
    , @Forbes

    For the life of me, I never understood why The Bell Curve was considered such a big deal.
     
    What's more curious/interesting/puzzling/funny is that for a book published in 1994, it seems to have had a re-birth of interest, or obtained a "second wind" for public discussion and alleged controversy. I can't recall more than a passing mention of the book in ages.

    Perhaps it was the contretemps at Middlebury when Murray appeared to discuss his more recent "Coming Apart: The State of White America 1960-2010" (2012).
    , @al-Gharaniq

    For the life of me, I never understood why The Bell Curve was considered such a big deal.
     
    Because it's hard to read through the book in its entirety (including the appendices and endnotes!), yet easy to cherry pick quotes from it that sound scandalous absent their (voluminous) context.

    I wouldn't be surprised that had Herrnstein and Murray chose to use footnotes over endnotes, there would be a surprising reduction in its controversy. Footnotes would immediately contextualize their claims with supporting citations; endnotes annoyingly force the reader to flip pages and potentially lose the context.
    , @lavoisier
    I agree with this assessment. Charles Murray has been given far too much credit as an original thinker who had the courage to challenge the conventional narrative.

    Jensen was was the real person of courage and he paid a high price for his courage and scholarship.
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  26. Murray’s not a scientist, he doesn’t have any findings. He’s a racist clown using pseudoscience to sound persuasive. I only took two years of statistics/econometrics and it was patently obvious to me that the “evidence” he presents in “The Bell Curve” is either full of holes or a priori complete BS.He interpreted difference in IQ between groups. The argument is over the interpretation, and many scientists disagree with his. Have you guys been following this debate closely? The bell curve is premised upon the notion that there can be an objective measure of “intelligence” measured by the subjective and often discriminatory IQ tests drawn up by mostly middle aged white men. And there is nothing in it that Adolf Hitler would not fully endorse. Think about that

    In Dark Money Jane Mayer mentions Murray as just one of many scholars who received significant help because of his political usefulness rather than his… merit. He is not a lonely ostracized academic in search of an audience.

    Sorry guys. The majority are against you. The culture and art is against you

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    • Replies: @Yikers
    Did you take a wrong turn and get lost somewhere? Buddy...
    , @Eric Novak
    Published research cannot be a priori. That would be a contradiction in terms. Murray's results have the same predictive power they had 25 years ago.
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  27. Bell Curve admission policy?

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  28. Individual schoolteachers vary in quality (like practitioners of other professions), with students taught by average teachers earning significantly more as adults than those taught by teachers in the bottom 5 percent of the distribution.

    Any guesses as to the racial distribution of those bottom five percent teachers, Matt…..

    Then there’s the question of the kind of students who end up in classes taught by the bottom five percent….

    Though the United States is generally quite a bit richer than Western Europe, the material living standards of American children are generally worse, with about 11.8 percent of US children living in absolute poverty (as indicated by the US poverty line), compared to only 6.2 percent of German or 3.6 percent of Swedish children.

    Of course, the USA differs from Germany and Sweden in other ways…..

    This relates in important ways to intelligence. A growing body of academic research — which includes DNA testing to control for potential genetic factors — indicates that the stress of growing up in poverty does concrete neurological damage to children’s brains over and above the issues with exposure to toxic chemicals. Murrayism traps poor children in a cycle where they have worse opportunities for intellectual development and then that underdevelopment is used as evidence that little can or should be done to improve their economic status.

    Huh. And since huge numbers of the immigrants immigrating to the USA come from impoverished backgrounds, does this mean that they are neurologically damaged?

    Indeed, cross-sectional evidence marshaled by Alberto Alesina and Ed Glaeser for their 2004 book, Fighting Poverty in the US and Europe: A World of Difference (you can read their main findings here) concludes that racial animosity is the main explanation for America’s relative stinginess to poor families while experimental evidence shows that increasing the salience of racial conflict promotes reactionary politics and specifically confirms that associating means-tested social assistance with black people leads many whites to become more skeptical.

    Which would seem to indicate that diversity is bad for social welfare……which might be why those European countries that you praise are so generous…..

    African Americans and Latinos are disproportionately poor in the United States, but most recipients of social assistance are, in fact, white. Despite the complaint that critics are throwing around charges of racism to silence Murray, the reality is that promoting a heavily racialized view of the overall question of whether we should try to help poor families or punish them serves as a useful marketing gimmick for both books and legislation.

    Too late, Matty. The SJW-Left is all about race…..

    Murray does have a side agenda that is race-specific, however. Near the very end of The Bell Curve, he writes, somewhat euphemistically, “that group differences in cognitive ability, so desperately denied for so long, can best be handled — can only be handled — by a return to individualism” rather than with policies that seek to specifically address or remedy racism or racial disadvantage.

    See, race keeps creeping back in…..

    While black women earn less than white women, that earnings gap essentially vanishes when you account for the fact that white women on average have richer parents than black women. But the earnings gap between black men and white men persists even with this control.

    There is no plausible genetic explanation for this. Instead, it seems that black men suffer from a race-specific disadvantage that impairs their earnings. This, in turn, reduces the material living conditions of black girls, which impairs their earnings too. The exact mechanism at work is unclear, though the gender specificity suggests that perhaps the criminal justice system is playing a key role.

    Check the stats, Matt. Black men are the most violent and crime prone group in the USA….

    It seems almost ridiculous to need to argue this, but racial discrimination is a quite real and salient feature of American society. Employers, for example, discriminate against job applications that feature stereotypically “black” names, and so do public officials when deciding what correspondence to answer.

    A person’s name tells you quite a bit about him, Matt…..All factors being equal, I would hire a Black woman named Elizabeth over one named Taniqua…..

    https://www.vox.com/2018/4/10/17182692/bell-curve-charles-murray-policy-wrong

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    • Replies: @Buffalo Joe
    Syon, ..."individual schoolteachers vary in quality," but unfortunately they all get paid the same and are immune from termination regarding their skill level.
    , @DRA
    Slightly OT, if AAs think that they are discriminated against because of race, why name their children names that one associates with their race?

    Or do they suppose that they benefit more from quotas and want to alert Human Resource folks of the opportunity to fill a quota?
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  29. Yeah, it’s such a crazy idea that we might as a nation profit from bringing in only immigrants who might have good skills, and who would immediately contribute to the economy, instead of being a drain on our social services.

    Only an out of control racist would want that.

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    • Replies: @Marcus D.
    Of course. Only white smart immigrants are the ideal.
    , @Citizen of a Silly Country
    Well, an immigration policy - any immigration policy outside of accepting anyone and everyone - could lead to another voyage of the St. Louis for a certain group.

    Sure, there's a homeland now, but you never know. Best to multiple back-up plans, and that means every country should allow in refugees and anyone showing up at their door. Just in case.
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  30. @Ron Unz
    For the life of me, I never understood why The Bell Curve was considered such a big deal. When it came out, I remember saying to myself "Hmm...I see Herrnstein's now decided to republish his big Atlantic article of twenty-odd years earlier in book form, and picked up Charles Murray as a coauthor." I remember being utterly shocked when Murray claimed the issues were entirely new to him, given the gigantic flap The Atlantic piece had originally generated, along with the earlier article in Harvard Educational Review by Jensen.

    If young Yglesias weren't so totally ignorant, he would have cited Peter Brimelow's Alien Nation book of that same year as the plausible underlying inspiration for Trump's immigration policies.

    But the really important and innovative book that came out around that same time was Phil Rushton's Race, Evolution & Behavior, for which he surely deserved a Nobel Prize...

    (And the Comment Archives will be back online shortly once I've finished adding some additional defenses against the massive bot-wave we experienced very early yesterday morning.)

    I suggest that the Bell Curve is a big deal to them because they have heard of it. It is the most logical culprit in their cosmology. Compare the idea that the NRA is richer than any other lobby, invented the Second Amendment in the Seventies, and controls every Congresscritter against their will. I don’t think I’ve seen the Bell Curve connected causally to immigration policy this starkly before (I was under the impression that Murray was a pretty libertarian guy and would be for relatively open borders). If Yglesias were asked to demonstrate lawmaker familiarity with the book as a way of proving his idea, I bet he would either stumble, or hide behind an obscure speech that didn’t hold water.
    Thank you for keeping up with the bot issue.

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  31. Anonymous[347] • Disclaimer says:
    @Ron Unz
    For the life of me, I never understood why The Bell Curve was considered such a big deal. When it came out, I remember saying to myself "Hmm...I see Herrnstein's now decided to republish his big Atlantic article of twenty-odd years earlier in book form, and picked up Charles Murray as a coauthor." I remember being utterly shocked when Murray claimed the issues were entirely new to him, given the gigantic flap The Atlantic piece had originally generated, along with the earlier article in Harvard Educational Review by Jensen.

    If young Yglesias weren't so totally ignorant, he would have cited Peter Brimelow's Alien Nation book of that same year as the plausible underlying inspiration for Trump's immigration policies.

    But the really important and innovative book that came out around that same time was Phil Rushton's Race, Evolution & Behavior, for which he surely deserved a Nobel Prize...

    (And the Comment Archives will be back online shortly once I've finished adding some additional defenses against the massive bot-wave we experienced very early yesterday morning.)

    If young Yglesias weren’t so totally ignorant, he would have cited Peter Brimelow’s Alien Nation book of that same year as the plausible underlying inspiration for Trump’s immigration policies.

    It must make Steve feel like quite an old man to read Matt Yglesias, whose work he’s been writing about intermittently since 2004 or so, still being described as “young”!

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    • Replies: @Ron Unz

    It must make Steve feel like quite an old man to read Matt Yglesias, whose work he’s been writing about intermittently since 2004 or so, still being described as “young”!
     
    Well, I started following Yglesias when he launched his blog soon after graduating college or something like that, so I guess I'll always think of him as someone just out of college...

    I hate to say it, but he never seemed to really make the transition from being a provocative blogger to being a serious journalist or intellectual. Some of his blog posts were really pretty witty, but I can't think of one article he's ever written since then that made much of an impression on me.

    Scratch that. After he was randomly attacked by a couple of blacks in DC playing "knockout game" he suggested that the true underlying cause of urban violence was housing density regulations or that sort of thing. Ha, ha, ha...
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  32. @Ron Unz
    For the life of me, I never understood why The Bell Curve was considered such a big deal. When it came out, I remember saying to myself "Hmm...I see Herrnstein's now decided to republish his big Atlantic article of twenty-odd years earlier in book form, and picked up Charles Murray as a coauthor." I remember being utterly shocked when Murray claimed the issues were entirely new to him, given the gigantic flap The Atlantic piece had originally generated, along with the earlier article in Harvard Educational Review by Jensen.

    If young Yglesias weren't so totally ignorant, he would have cited Peter Brimelow's Alien Nation book of that same year as the plausible underlying inspiration for Trump's immigration policies.

    But the really important and innovative book that came out around that same time was Phil Rushton's Race, Evolution & Behavior, for which he surely deserved a Nobel Prize...

    (And the Comment Archives will be back online shortly once I've finished adding some additional defenses against the massive bot-wave we experienced very early yesterday morning.)

    No. Herrnstein’s Atlantic article did not deal with race per se, and The Bell Curve had the massive (for the time) NLSY dataset. It was and remains a big deal.

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    • Replies: @Ron Unz

    No. Herrnstein’s Atlantic article did not deal with race per se, and The Bell Curve had the massive (for the time) NLSY dataset. It was and remains a big deal.
     
    I'll admit I was just a child during the gigantic Jensen/Herrnstein/Shockley media flap, and have never read the articles of the former two.

    But wasn't Jensen's huge article primarily about race, and didn't the MSM rather naturally connect it with Herrnstein's subsequent popular discussion of IQ issues?

    Unless I'm mistaken, only a small slice of The Bell Curve focused on race, yet that became 95% of what people heard about from the media coverage. Similarly, it's very possible that Herrnstein's article "did not deal with race per se" but given the political upheavals of the late 1960s and Jensen's very high-profile earlier work, isn't that what everyone understood it to be about?
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  33. fair question for Steve, as a decade long reader:

    so when are you going to quit this shtick where you “slyly” reference the problem were “not allowed” to talk about.

    yes, we get it. but nobody is stopping you from violating the “taboo” so quit whining and do it

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    • Replies: @Hunsdon
    I'm quite sure our host here will give your opinion the merit and consideration it truly deserves.
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  34. Matt Yglesias has been talking to the odious Ezra Klein. Both are disingenuous bad faith weasels. Unfortunately their motivation is not the truth but simple self-aggrandisement and bizarre ritual humiliation of those who won’t enable them.

    It is that simple. Sam Harris recently had a podcast with Klein and Klein was intellectually gross. An intelligent individual putting that intelligence to the most obnoxious use. He’s like a bad guy from an Ayn Rand novel on steroids, or more accurately, estrogen pills.

    These are the self-satisfied worst of people. They’re the highest level of SJWs. As a fellow Jew, it shames me to say they’re the SJWs inner party – smart enough to know better but sickly manipulative and irredeemably without virtue.

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    • Replies: @Ron Unz

    Matt Yglesias has been talking to the odious Ezra Klein.
     
    Yes, in slight defense of Yglesias, I think some of his intellectual decline may be due to his association with Ezra Klein, who's always struck me as a totally empty-headed nitwit. And such a harsh assessment has nothing to do with ideology.

    For example, back a few years ago I published a major article advocated a huge hike in the Minimum Wage, a proposal that played a very large role in sparking the wildly successful national movement of recent years on that issue. But at the time, Klein ridiculed the notion on his Cable TV show, denouncing the very concept of a Minimum Wage and saying that only idiots and economic ignoramuses supported the idea. Not exactly traditional "progressivism":

    http://www.unz.com/runz/immigration-liberal-dc-pundit-denounces-minimum-wage-on-msnbc/

    Then in 2016, he interviewed presidential candidate Bernie Sanders, who (quite reasonably) argued that "Open Borders" hurt working people by driving down wages. Klein absolutely lambasted him, instead suggesting that the views of the Editorial Page of The Wall Street Journal(!) represented the proper source for all progressive thinking on such economics issue:

    http://www.unz.com/runz/a-grand-bargain-on-immigration-reform-2/#p_1_6

    What can you say about someone like that? I'd assume his Oligarch paymasters regard him as a "useful idiot"...but I suppose the "useful" part could be debated...
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  35. I’ve always been seriously moved by the words engraved on the base of the Great Lady who stands tall in New York harbor, her lamp raised as a beacon to the rest of the world, words that sear the heart of the welcoming spirit:

    Come unto me all ye that labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you…. Oops, my bad.

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  36. Anon[425] • Disclaimer says: • Website

    Will people like Yglesias explain WHY they chose to emigrate to white-majority nations created by Anglos and Germanics?

    Fat Matt is Jewish and Hispanic, right? Jews could have sought out OTHER places to emigrate to.
    And yet, when Jews had a chance to leave backward Russian empire, they almost always chose the nations created by Anglo-Wasp-Germanic ‘white supremacists’. Jews are strangely and perniciously attracted to ‘white supremacism’. Why?

    And ‘Hispanics’, both blanco and Indigeno, want to move from Diversity to whiter nations.

    And when Hindus and Asians are given a chance to emigrate, their top choices are almost always Anglo-Germanic made nations.

    Isn’t that pernicious? Instead of just focusing on WHITE immigration policy, we should look at NON-WHITE and JEWISH immigration preferences. Even as they berate ‘white supremacism’, they want to move to nations made by ‘white supremacism’.

    Even among African nations, the #1 favorite destination for Jews was white-ruled South Africa. How many Jews wanted to move to Zaire or Congo? How many wanted to move to Zimbabwe after Mugabe took over? Well, well, how pernicious of Jews to favor White-ruled South Africa over other African nations ruled by blacks.

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    • Replies: @GSR
    Love your points. So true. Every one of them!
    , @Lot
    If I remember right, Yglesias is 3/4 Ashkenazi and one quarter northern Spanish.
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  37. @eric
    "By the same token, Karl Marx’s work is full of observations that are well within the consensus of the economics profession..."

    His whole framework is built on the labor theory of value, which economists rejected right around the time Das Kapital was published. He also argued that profits would fall to zero, which no economist believes. Without these mechanisms, the whole business about revolution and surplus value goes away.

    If there’s one line that suggests this guy is talking into his propeller beanie and unlikely to have expected any editing when writing it, it’s putting forth a “consensus of economist opinion.” I would be scared to do so. When the Western establishment economists thought that people starving and freezing to death in recently de-Communized Eastern Europe sounded fair, there existed equally credentialled economists who interrupted that consensus. Economics is politics hiding behind math and you can get any economic judgment you want by identifying the ideology of the economist. If there’s a worse line, it’s connecting that consensus to Marx. I still remember the Nation special anniversary edition (I had a subscription in high school), where a number of leftist scholars put forth pronouncements on how Marx had aged. Most of them agreed that plenty of his ideas were wrong or needed serious updating, with one guy planting his feet in the idea that Marx was just as right and just as important. I’m guessing rightist and libertarian economists would have added to the objections, and gone further by disputing the idea, universally accepted by the special edition group, that Marx was significant and morally good regardless of his failures.
    With that being said it is entirely possible, and even likely, that Marx’s works were full of reasonable observations. Marx wasn’t an economist, after all, he was a nineteenth century social critic essayist like Zola or (later but the same shtick) Gorky. It is even possible that those reasonable observations do not bear out the arguments they are supposed to illustrate. But nobody needs to worry about things like that when you talk about “settled science” or “scholarly consensus.”

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    • Replies: @dfordoom

    Economics is politics hiding behind math and you can get any economic judgment you want by identifying the ideology of the economist
     
    .

    Great quote.
    , @Ref Little Smurf
    Well Marx was philosopher first. He was mainly influenced by Hegel (dialectical part) and Feuerbach (atheism part). Also, there is his own understand of ancient pre-Socratic philosophers... Zola and Gorky were novelists first and foremost.
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  38. While there may be some upside to not being burdened with low IQ immigrants to the same degree. Canada’s large scale immigration is effecting a massive cultural transformation. Whether related at all I cannot say but there is a distinct lack of professional work in Canada (my suspicion is that the higher IQ immigrants end up in the professional services market). Finally we have become a place for wealthy foreigners to dump their money. This means that housing is totally un-affordable. While we don’t suffer from rust belt syndrome too much (see Hamilton) the standard of living has dropped considerably for wage slaves because of the hike in housing costs. I can’t blame the immigrants for the stifling culture of political correctness but Canada is truly an insufferable place to live. There is a near lockout for whites looking to work in government (of course this is probably true in the US as well). Goods and services are about 20% more expensive and our tax brackets kick in at much lower levels. The roads are a little better. I’ve lived in both countries quite frankly each is clearly quite a bit worse than than they were in the early 70s.

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    • Replies: @Charles Erwin Wilson II

    I’ve lived in both countries quite frankly each is clearly quite a bit worse than than they were in the early 70s.
     
    I cannot write about Canada, but here that is certainly, though needlessly, true.
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  39. Weren’t many groups oppressed in the USSR?

    And yet, I recall American Jews especially favored Soviet Jews for ‘saving’.

    Pernicious indeed,.

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  40. @candid_observer
    Yeah, it's such a crazy idea that we might as a nation profit from bringing in only immigrants who might have good skills, and who would immediately contribute to the economy, instead of being a drain on our social services.

    Only an out of control racist would want that.

    Of course. Only white smart immigrants are the ideal.

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  41. I have called Charles Murray a high IQ muttonhead because he hasn’t called for a moratorium on legal immigration into the United States. But I must say that Murray, who is sneaky and might have done some intellectual wetwork for various shady oufits, has called attention to some important things.

    In 2014, Murray said capitalism was in bed with the government. Now that has always been the case, and I would suggest you can’t have capitalism in a debt-based fiat currency system, and that plutocracy would be a better word to describe what is going on rather than capitalism, but at least Murray is pointing out that things are rigged in the United States.

    Charles Murray in 2014:

    There’s another thing that’s going on…which is even bigger: capitalism in bed with the government. Big time. The American people look at the way people make zillions of bucks because they can get the regulations they want to, because they get the government to support their technology. They see that going on, plus the crony capitalism. And the number of these capitalists are enthusiastically in favor of real competition is depressingly small.

    Murray has this to say about his youth and the new globalizer class:

    Back in the 1960s or 50s, when I was growing up, the executives of the Maytag company, in the town where I lived, wouldn’t buy Cadillacs, that was getting too fancy, too flamboyant.

    There is a new upper class that is increasingly really happy being a new upper class. They have left behind the American tradition of saying hey, we’re just folks. They are, actually, rather enjoying the position. It’s Un-American…

    Charles Murray is sneaky and shady and he might be too old to recognize the globalism against patriotism brawl that launched Brexit and then Trump, and he is as soft as warm butter on mass legal immigration, but he sees the brawl coming between the globalizer high IQ ruling class of the American Empire and the patriots who are now fighting for the sovereignty and independence of the United States.

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    • Replies: @Dave Pinsen

    I would suggest you can’t have capitalism in a debt-based fiat currency system
     
    Why not?
    , @Anon
    Murray is like Mr. Magoo.

    He isn't very courageous but accidentally 'stumbles' into ersatz-courage by writing something without anticipating the full implications.

    Anyway, look how he folded on 'gay marriage'. No respect for Murray after that.

    As for Bell Curve, the it's now between Bell Curse and Bell Curb.

    Reich is of the Bell Curse school. He admits the differences but treats it like a curse. It is admitted but with much hair-pulling.. even though he hasn't much hair.

    And then you got PC loons who call for Bell Curb. Those Middlebury loonies. Or more genteel PC commissars who insist Murray's book was 'discredited'.

    It's hard to be just Bell Curious.

    And then you got Chetty's Bell Curry that goes for all sorts of Brahmanic doubletalk.

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  42. Why isn’t it legitimate for Republicans to oppose certain kinds of immigration on political grounds alone? If Hispanic immigrants voted >70% for Republicans, Democrats would oppose them, regardless of the immigrants’ IQ, skills, or other fitness.

    That the minority of Republican-voting immigrants are likely beneficial ones should be thought of as a positive side-effect of them; Republican immigration policy, in the immediate term, should be focussed on countering the Democrats’ decades-long importation of ringers.

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    • Replies: @J.Ross
    Because they cling stupidly to this idea that if only they can find the right phrasing, Lucy Van Pelt will not call them "racists."
    , @songbird
    If Hispanics voted >70% Republican, the Left would be manning machine gun nests at the border.
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  43. Matthew Yglesias has discovered, “the Republican Party’s ongoing conversion to the cause of sharp cuts in legal immigration”. Omigod!! Who knew?

    Are the Republicans “Trumpists”? True, if Trump were a Democrat, his Party would be solidly behind his leadership. But then Trump is not a Democrat. (Or a Republican).

    Are the senior Republicans dedicated to preventing large-scale immigration from third-World countries ? How strange, to read the newspaper, or listen to “the News”, even TV News, and yet believe such a thing-

    Its so hard to play the Limbaugh-style “Democrats vs. Republicans” with a President who speaks heresy (at least at times) against all the policies that both Parties have in common. Like, e.g., open borders.

    What does it mean for a member of Congress to favor restriction in “legal immigration” as Mr. Yglesias maintains, when both parties favor making the concept of citizenship meaningless.

    “All have won, and all must receive citizenship!” But if all become citizens, there is no immigration. Just tourism and/or address change.

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  44. The reality is that a good number of the people many of us don’t want as immigrants are undesirable not necessarily because of any genetic propensities, but because of their culture.

    We don’t want immigrants who subscribe to a primitive form of Islam — which appears to be most of the immigrants who are from Muslim countries. Are these people genetically greatly different from us? I honestly don’t know. They may be not much different from us at all, in no small part because they are of the same race, Caucasian.

    But their culture is pernicious. And it’s obvious that that culture is not going to change quickly, either in them, or in their children, or, most likely, in their children’s children. That’s just way too many people with a pernicious culture for way too long a time. Why on God’s earth should we want them?

    One of the more obvious contradictions that today’s progressive take as dogma is that, on the one hand, culture is omnipotent, and can mold human nature into any kind of thing that it wants, but that, on the other hand, the culture of those who come from primitive, brutal, undemocratic societies is going to magically and immediately transform into something enlightened and tolerant when people bring it to the West.

    Somehow, the racism of Western culture has proven all powerful and intractable, but the brutality of Islam will quickly fade away in its adherents upon contact with the West.

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    • Replies: @Thomm

    We don’t want immigrants who subscribe to a primitive form of Islam — which appears to be most of the immigrants who are from Muslim countries. Are these people genetically greatly different from us? I honestly don’t know. They may be not much different from us at all, in no small part because they are of the same race, Caucasian.
     
    Thanks for pointing this out. Genenetically, the Middle East is the next closest thing to Europe.

    But Islam is the single most incompatible ideology with our Western values.

    Ironically, the most fanatical Muslims are in the Middle East, while the (relatively) more relaxed ones are in much further away Malaysia and Indonesia.
    , @Dave Pinsen
    Open borders is a threat to conservative politics now, but it's a threat to liberal politics in the medium term in a democratic system. Aside from their shared preference for open borders, affirmative action/quotas, and a generous welfare state, Afghans and Somalis don't have much in common culturally with Democrats. Which is why the logical endgame for an open borders America is an autocracy, run by a liberal technocrat like Bloomberg.

    One ironic silver lining of an autocracy is there'd be no more incentive to import migrants for their votes (there'd still be an incentive to import cheap, compliant labor, but limiting it to just that would mean a big reduction in immigration overall).
    , @TheMediumIsTheMassage
    You're thinking about it like a man. It's not supposed to make logical sense, because modern day leftist dogma is a female-oriented construct. It's feels over reals. The women and estrogenized men who feed the belief system are guided by a mindless hatred towards the groups that, in the division of society into oppressed and oppressors that they have imagined, are on the oppressor side (aka the "white cishetero patriarchy", and you could add "Christian" and "attractive" for good measure), and anything that hurts them is good, and anything that benefits those on the other side is good. There's no consideration for how this affects their values long-term. Islam falls under "Brown, non-Christian, foreign, poor, stupid, ugly" (no offence, but most Muslims are not attractive) and so they don't even care to think how compatible it is with typical white upper middle class Democrat values.

    Also, more importantly when it comes to Islam, SJW women are not actually repelled by it. Sure, they may feign outrage when reports of ISIS throwing gay men off roofs appear, but Islam mostly intrigues and slightly excites them. There's a reason why the homophobic jock bully in high school always got the girl (who then went to college and became BFFs with a few gay guys, but broke of all contact once she got married and had kids). The burka is a cute fashion accessory (and, for fatties, means a chance to hide the double chin and rolls). The devotion, piousness and deference to men activate the side of their brain that Christianity vacated in their own culture. The barbaric jihadis and raping refugees are backwards societal drains, but they do not subscribe to the norms of politeness and acceptability that their own men do. That excites a lot of women. Perhaps a lot of them would find they do not enjoy Islam in practice, but then again, there are an infinity of Muslim women who really do like their way of life. But they have far more disgust and contempt towards submissive men from their own race and social class.

    , @AnotherDad

    One of the more obvious contradictions that today’s progressive take as dogma is that, on the one hand, culture is omnipotent, and can mold human nature into any kind of thing that it wants, but that, on the other hand, the culture of those who come from primitive, brutal, undemocratic societies is going to magically and immediately transform into something enlightened and tolerant when people bring it to the West.
     
    Well said. But the truth is that there are so many contradictions in progressive dogma, it's pointless to even look for consistency.

    When it comes to immigration, it's clear that mass immigration is opposed to essentially *every* value progressives claim to hold across all domains, employment, wages and income, the welfare state, social policies, the environment, etc. etc.

    Real progressives interested in the welfare of the working class, never want immigration.

    It's clear that the "progressive" love of mass immigration is essentially driven by one value--destroying the white gentile built American nation, and creating a nothing nation full of dependency creating a solid vote bank for the super state party.
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  45. Anon[331] • Disclaimer says:

    I listened to the Ezra Klein and Sam Harris’ podcast. The best part was when Sam Harris made the point that all 100m olympic finalists have been West African and none of them have been Jewish, and it would be wrong of course to assume that this was the result of antisemitism. Klein got angry and basically did the “did you just compare…” thing.
    :-)

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  46. @syonredux

    Individual schoolteachers vary in quality (like practitioners of other professions), with students taught by average teachers earning significantly more as adults than those taught by teachers in the bottom 5 percent of the distribution.
     
    Any guesses as to the racial distribution of those bottom five percent teachers, Matt.....

    Then there's the question of the kind of students who end up in classes taught by the bottom five percent....

    Though the United States is generally quite a bit richer than Western Europe, the material living standards of American children are generally worse, with about 11.8 percent of US children living in absolute poverty (as indicated by the US poverty line), compared to only 6.2 percent of German or 3.6 percent of Swedish children.
     
    Of course, the USA differs from Germany and Sweden in other ways.....

    This relates in important ways to intelligence. A growing body of academic research — which includes DNA testing to control for potential genetic factors — indicates that the stress of growing up in poverty does concrete neurological damage to children’s brains over and above the issues with exposure to toxic chemicals. Murrayism traps poor children in a cycle where they have worse opportunities for intellectual development and then that underdevelopment is used as evidence that little can or should be done to improve their economic status.
     
    Huh. And since huge numbers of the immigrants immigrating to the USA come from impoverished backgrounds, does this mean that they are neurologically damaged?

    Indeed, cross-sectional evidence marshaled by Alberto Alesina and Ed Glaeser for their 2004 book, Fighting Poverty in the US and Europe: A World of Difference (you can read their main findings here) concludes that racial animosity is the main explanation for America’s relative stinginess to poor families while experimental evidence shows that increasing the salience of racial conflict promotes reactionary politics and specifically confirms that associating means-tested social assistance with black people leads many whites to become more skeptical.

     

    Which would seem to indicate that diversity is bad for social welfare......which might be why those European countries that you praise are so generous.....

    African Americans and Latinos are disproportionately poor in the United States, but most recipients of social assistance are, in fact, white. Despite the complaint that critics are throwing around charges of racism to silence Murray, the reality is that promoting a heavily racialized view of the overall question of whether we should try to help poor families or punish them serves as a useful marketing gimmick for both books and legislation.

     

    Too late, Matty. The SJW-Left is all about race.....

    Murray does have a side agenda that is race-specific, however. Near the very end of The Bell Curve, he writes, somewhat euphemistically, “that group differences in cognitive ability, so desperately denied for so long, can best be handled — can only be handled — by a return to individualism” rather than with policies that seek to specifically address or remedy racism or racial disadvantage.

     

    See, race keeps creeping back in.....

    While black women earn less than white women, that earnings gap essentially vanishes when you account for the fact that white women on average have richer parents than black women. But the earnings gap between black men and white men persists even with this control.

    There is no plausible genetic explanation for this. Instead, it seems that black men suffer from a race-specific disadvantage that impairs their earnings. This, in turn, reduces the material living conditions of black girls, which impairs their earnings too. The exact mechanism at work is unclear, though the gender specificity suggests that perhaps the criminal justice system is playing a key role.

     

    Check the stats, Matt. Black men are the most violent and crime prone group in the USA....

    It seems almost ridiculous to need to argue this, but racial discrimination is a quite real and salient feature of American society. Employers, for example, discriminate against job applications that feature stereotypically “black” names, and so do public officials when deciding what correspondence to answer.
     
    A person's name tells you quite a bit about him, Matt.....All factors being equal, I would hire a Black woman named Elizabeth over one named Taniqua.....


    https://www.vox.com/2018/4/10/17182692/bell-curve-charles-murray-policy-wrong

    Syon, …”individual schoolteachers vary in quality,” but unfortunately they all get paid the same and are immune from termination regarding their skill level.

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    Syon, …”individual schoolteachers vary in quality,” but unfortunately they all get paid the same and are immune from termination regarding their skill level.
     
    Yup. Plus, if standards were raised, that would have disparate impact consequences in regards to Black teachers.....
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  47. Canada does have a few good immigration policies, but overall it is still dysgenic and worse much higher than in the USA relative to population. In fact, as bad as we have it, Canada, Belgium, Germany, and Sweden are among the nations with clearly worse immigration policies.

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  48. @Boethiuss
    OT but not really:

    Donald Trump has moved the Overton Window in our favor. So, at least as it pertains to immigration, the Overton Window is not our problem. The problem is that the determination of the American people to assert our self-determination and protect our human capital is pretty marginal, really. If we had that determination, we could get the policies we need to implement it (e-Verify, the wall, birthright citizenship, whatever). Without that determination, those policies would be undermined and rendered ineffective even if we had them, which we don't.

    This the backdrop to yesterday, wherein the US Attorney's office for the Southern District of New York raided the office, house, and hotel of Donald Trump's personal attorney. There's a thousand possibilities relating to the motivations and consequences of this, and none of them are good.

    Among other things, if this is the Deep State going rogue, as has been suggested, this is not Mueller or the FBI (which has also been suggested). No this is the main Justice Dept which did this, including Rosenstein and maybe even Sessions (plus of course a judge to sign the warrant). There are a lot of institutional safeguards to prevent this from happening as a matter of routine business, so I'd venture that at the very least there's some prosecutor with a very solid set of facts to associate Michael Cohen with some kind of criminal activity.

    For me, the key question is what is that criminal activity? From what I've seen so far, it could be Stormy Daniels, it could be taxicab medallions in NYC, or it could be something bigger that we haven't heard of yet. Now, here's the thing: if it is Stormy Daniels, which is as good a guess as any right now, that is a horrible prosecutorial overreach. But, we don't have any good countermoves for it.

    Essentially, the way that's likely to shake down is, yeah, Cohen is guilty and Trump is guilty but they really shouldn't have raided a lawyer's office. Are we really going to get any traction from that? I'm doubting it.

    There's other bad consequences as well. First of all, the main play is that Cohen flips on Trump, and implicates the President in some kind of criminal activity, in exchange for immunity or reduced sentence for himself. But there's another angle which I suspect might end up being even more important. Even if Cohen refuses to cooperate, or doesn't know anything, or is protected from implicating Trump by attorney-client privilege, there's still all the documents, email, spreadsheets, online account info etc., now in possession of Mueller or the US Attorney's office to be referred to Mueller as the case may be.

    Now here's where I'm not completely confident, but my guess is, that even if Cohen's testimony isn't available or can't be used against Trump, whatever is in those documents can and will.

    If had better Establishment connections, he'd have better lawyers and he wouldn't be getting rolled up through My Cousin Vinny.

    As it pertains to us, we're at risk of losing support in the public opinion for Trump and the GOP. This is what kills us. We've got no margin to spare. The determination of the American people to assert our self-determination is weak enough as it is, without Trump weakening it further for unrelated reasons. A populist/conservative coalition is a winning hand in American politics right now. We can't afford to let Trump screw it up on his own crap.

    A theory.

    I’d say the problem with it is no one really believes the mainstream media any more. They are that ridiculous. Literally the morning talk shows start now by playing what Jimmy Kimmel or Steven Colbert did on their monologue last night.

    Better be a heck of a smoking gun. Do you really think anyone at all is going to get their knickers in a twist if Stormy Daniels was paid off?

    They’ll bleat about it on the news, make jokes on the talk shows. The only people who will care or pay attention are the people that want to experience Trump hate enough to watch that Trevor Noah show.

    Tell you what though. I’d absolutely love it if a special counsel was named to investigate Mueller. And Comey. And…

    Use exactly the same tactics, and engage in a perpetual dirt digging operation.

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    I’d say the problem with it is no one really believes the mainstream media any more. They are that ridiculous. Literally the morning talk shows start now by playing what Jimmy Kimmel or Steven Colbert did on their monologue last night.

    Better be a heck of a smoking gun. Do you really think anyone at all is going to get their knickers in a twist if Stormy Daniels was paid off?
     
    No, it's not about about what the MSM can convince its audience of. It's about what dozens of well-paid federal prosecutors can convince a jury of, while Michael Cohen has to gets maybe 2-3 guys tops and has to pay maybe hundreds of thousands to do it, if he's got that much money lying around.

    It's not localized to Stormy Daniels either. If it were, I don't think it would be nearly as important. It's at least as likely that Bob Mueller has a paper trail of every real estate scam, every fraudulent loan application, and every shady business Trump has owned a part of in three decades as a New York businessman. I'm not even counting anything related to Russia, yet.
    , @dfordoom

    I’d say the problem with it is no one really believes the mainstream media any more.
     
    The problem is that most people do still really believe the mainstream media. The people who hang out on this site might not but we're not exactly typical of the population as a whole.

    There's now a proportion of the population that distrusts the mainstream media but it's still a small proportion.
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  49. @eric
    "By the same token, Karl Marx’s work is full of observations that are well within the consensus of the economics profession..."

    His whole framework is built on the labor theory of value, which economists rejected right around the time Das Kapital was published. He also argued that profits would fall to zero, which no economist believes. Without these mechanisms, the whole business about revolution and surplus value goes away.

    Marx based his economic theory largely on Ricardo, with a few important twists. Though not all of Ricardo has survived, his system forms part of the basis for the neoclassical school, which along with Keynesianism dominates academic economics in the West.

    Of course, Marx’s twists make all the difference. But he never completed his system, despite promising to do so. No one else has, either, and everyone knows it.

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  50. Ironically, the Bell Curve, or rather, skill-level, should indeed be the primary principle of any immigration policy. Canada, thus, has a much better immigration policy than the US.

    Skilled immigrants (with a special exclusion for Arab Muslims) : Yes.
    Unskilled immigrants/family reuinification beyond spouse and minor children : No.
    Illegals : HELL No.

    It is surprising how few agree with this from either side. WNs say it is too generous, and SJWs say it is too strict. Both WNs and SJWs are left-wing and anti-merit, but it is telling how concave the distribution of views on immigration is (and how ignorant most bloviators are).

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    • Replies: @Dave Pinsen
    Skilled immigration from poor countries probably makes us and the poor countries worse off. A Cameroonian immigrant in a U.S. medical school probably took a spot from a more talented American applicant, and if he stays here, Cameroon has lost one of its most talented citizens.
    , @songbird
    How about anyone with an IQ >85 can immigrate to India? It might turn into China #2 once the Chinese start having more kids, but it would certainly improve the Indian economy. And think of the gain in scientific output. Chinese people are good hardworking people who will bring much needed skills to India.

    I don't put much faith in Indian credentials, so we will go with a simple IQ test to know if they are needed. After all, according to polls, most Indians value intelligence.
    , @Jenner Ickham Errican

    Ironically, the Bell Curve, or rather, skill-level, should indeed be the primary principle of any immigration policy.
     
    Ahem. You left out one equally important factor: Looks. (#26)

    Allow myself to repeat… myself:

    Ann Coulter (sort of jokingly, but not really IMO) said this regarding how she would choose new citizens:

    “I will do it on looks, IQ, height — oh, and speaking English.”

    I’m thinking that in the looks department, Ann would choose people that looked like America. 1950’s New England America. Or “Canadian Border” America.

    One may quibble if Ann herself is a paragon of beauty, or say that fat white People of Walmart are the ugliest of all, but if one greatly appreciates the white (aka European) phenotype at its best, then mass non-white immigration to white lands, and its potential for subsuming the white phenotype in a mystery meat brownish morass, is a disaster for humanity for that reason alone.
     
    You wrote:

    Both WNs and SJWs are left-wing and anti-merit, but it is telling how concave the distribution of views on immigration is
     
    Ah yes, “horseshit theory.” Unlike SJWs, WNs frankly recognize the superior natural merit of white racial aesthetics in general. That’s hierarchically right wing and is as important to HBD as IQ and temperament/character.
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  51. @Ron Unz
    For the life of me, I never understood why The Bell Curve was considered such a big deal. When it came out, I remember saying to myself "Hmm...I see Herrnstein's now decided to republish his big Atlantic article of twenty-odd years earlier in book form, and picked up Charles Murray as a coauthor." I remember being utterly shocked when Murray claimed the issues were entirely new to him, given the gigantic flap The Atlantic piece had originally generated, along with the earlier article in Harvard Educational Review by Jensen.

    If young Yglesias weren't so totally ignorant, he would have cited Peter Brimelow's Alien Nation book of that same year as the plausible underlying inspiration for Trump's immigration policies.

    But the really important and innovative book that came out around that same time was Phil Rushton's Race, Evolution & Behavior, for which he surely deserved a Nobel Prize...

    (And the Comment Archives will be back online shortly once I've finished adding some additional defenses against the massive bot-wave we experienced very early yesterday morning.)

    Publicity phenomena like what happened with the Bell Curve are hard to explain. I guess sometimes the MSM and academia need an object of Two-Minute Hate.

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  52. @Charles Pewitt
    I have called Charles Murray a high IQ muttonhead because he hasn't called for a moratorium on legal immigration into the United States. But I must say that Murray, who is sneaky and might have done some intellectual wetwork for various shady oufits, has called attention to some important things.

    In 2014, Murray said capitalism was in bed with the government. Now that has always been the case, and I would suggest you can't have capitalism in a debt-based fiat currency system, and that plutocracy would be a better word to describe what is going on rather than capitalism, but at least Murray is pointing out that things are rigged in the United States.

    Charles Murray in 2014:

    There's another thing that's going on...which is even bigger: capitalism in bed with the government. Big time. The American people look at the way people make zillions of bucks because they can get the regulations they want to, because they get the government to support their technology. They see that going on, plus the crony capitalism. And the number of these capitalists are enthusiastically in favor of real competition is depressingly small.

     

    Murray has this to say about his youth and the new globalizer class:

    Back in the 1960s or 50s, when I was growing up, the executives of the Maytag company, in the town where I lived, wouldn't buy Cadillacs, that was getting too fancy, too flamboyant.

     


    There is a new upper class that is increasingly really happy being a new upper class. They have left behind the American tradition of saying hey, we're just folks. They are, actually, rather enjoying the position. It's Un-American...

     

    Charles Murray is sneaky and shady and he might be too old to recognize the globalism against patriotism brawl that launched Brexit and then Trump, and he is as soft as warm butter on mass legal immigration, but he sees the brawl coming between the globalizer high IQ ruling class of the American Empire and the patriots who are now fighting for the sovereignty and independence of the United States.

    https://twitter.com/CharlesPewitt/status/457220870381903873

    I would suggest you can’t have capitalism in a debt-based fiat currency system

    Why not?

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    I would suggest you can’t have capitalism in a debt-based fiat currency system

     

    Why not?

    MORAL HAZARD

    The temptation is too strong to print up money and reduce interest rates to zero and to bail out American International Group so AIG could bail out Goldman Sachs and to bury future generations under unpayable debt when you have a debt-based fiat currency system.

    China and the United States are going bankrupt at the same time. Unpayable debt built up on a debt-based fiat currency system is not just an American problem.

    China has created more debt out of thin air than America. They will have to implode their economy just as we are going to have to let our various asset bubbles pop.

    The first rule of capitalism: What is the capital?
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  53. …because of the Zeroth Amendment carved on the Statue of Liberty by our founding fathers non-binary-gendered…founders.

    FIFY.

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  54. OT 4chan
    Right now 4chan’s politics board is an unmoderated mess. I am not allowed to comment there, but they are letting me comment on other boards, which is a reversal of earlier policy based on the idea that /pol/ regulars should be contained. Maybe it’s IP harvesting again, although I have been consistent in not seeing Russia as an existential threat and in calling out spam, and have been called a Russian several times. A lot of spam today — a kind of confirmation that something is happening. Rumors about aircraft movement, both Western and Russian. One spampost, notable because it looks like it came straight from a government functionary who has never visited 4chan before, dismisses all anti-Establishment opinion as “Russian propaganda.” So we are seeing that 4chan is definitely on the radar now and they see flat out jamming us when it’s time for operations as a necessary step.
    Brief over-broad historical note: they are backwards. People lived in “echo chambers,” and distrusted unfamiliar sources and incredible information, for all of human history. Only very recently has technology and mass media made the modern slackjawed credulity possible. They do this to shore up the sinking Mighty Wurlitzer with the illusion that they are the norm and 4chan is some mutation. Battering us with thoroughly discredited talking points, that we tore apart a year and a half ago, is unlikely to succeed, in my humble opinion, even if they simultaneously prevent us from pointing out how silly they look.

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    /Pol/ gets vaunted a lot, but I find it hard to read. There's a lot of spam and scrolling. The worthwhile stuff is hard to find. I'm not a conspiracy theorist. But I wouldn't be at all surprised if there wasn't some sort of ten cent army attacking it with boring posts. It would be in the interests of some governments certainly, and they have a high enough profile to get noticed.
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  55. @candid_observer
    The reality is that a good number of the people many of us don't want as immigrants are undesirable not necessarily because of any genetic propensities, but because of their culture.

    We don't want immigrants who subscribe to a primitive form of Islam -- which appears to be most of the immigrants who are from Muslim countries. Are these people genetically greatly different from us? I honestly don't know. They may be not much different from us at all, in no small part because they are of the same race, Caucasian.

    But their culture is pernicious. And it's obvious that that culture is not going to change quickly, either in them, or in their children, or, most likely, in their children's children. That's just way too many people with a pernicious culture for way too long a time. Why on God's earth should we want them?

    One of the more obvious contradictions that today's progressive take as dogma is that, on the one hand, culture is omnipotent, and can mold human nature into any kind of thing that it wants, but that, on the other hand, the culture of those who come from primitive, brutal, undemocratic societies is going to magically and immediately transform into something enlightened and tolerant when people bring it to the West.

    Somehow, the racism of Western culture has proven all powerful and intractable, but the brutality of Islam will quickly fade away in its adherents upon contact with the West.

    We don’t want immigrants who subscribe to a primitive form of Islam — which appears to be most of the immigrants who are from Muslim countries. Are these people genetically greatly different from us? I honestly don’t know. They may be not much different from us at all, in no small part because they are of the same race, Caucasian.

    Thanks for pointing this out. Genenetically, the Middle East is the next closest thing to Europe.

    But Islam is the single most incompatible ideology with our Western values.

    Ironically, the most fanatical Muslims are in the Middle East, while the (relatively) more relaxed ones are in much further away Malaysia and Indonesia.

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    But Islam is the single most incompatible ideology with our Western values.
     
    Western values? You mean like promoting homosexuality? Turning marriage into a sad joke. Free access to pornography. Celebrity worship. The slaughter of inconvenient unborn children. Believing that people can magically change sex at will and that there are fifty-seven different genders. Trash culture. Or perhaps you're referring to the worship of consumerism?

    If those are western values the sooner they're destroyed the better.
    , @Marcus D.
    Even if people from Middle East have similarities with white Europeans, this doesn't mean thay they are the same. They don't have the same genetic potential of the Europeans. You can simply compare their societies in their countries, or how they behave in multi-cultural countries.

    For example, in Brazil there are many people with Lebanese origins. There are more ethnic Lebanese in Brazil than in Lebanon. And they are almost all Cristians, not Muslins. But the majority of Lebanese politicians in Brazil are corrupt, including the current president Michel Temer. There are a incredible number of white-collar criminals with Lebanese descent. By comparision, there are more Germans in Brazil than Lebanese, but you don't see by far, the same number of criminals.
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  56. @Dave Pinsen
    Why isn't it legitimate for Republicans to oppose certain kinds of immigration on political grounds alone? If Hispanic immigrants voted >70% for Republicans, Democrats would oppose them, regardless of the immigrants' IQ, skills, or other fitness.

    That the minority of Republican-voting immigrants are likely beneficial ones should be thought of as a positive side-effect of them; Republican immigration policy, in the immediate term, should be focussed on countering the Democrats' decades-long importation of ringers.

    Because they cling stupidly to this idea that if only they can find the right phrasing, Lucy Van Pelt will not call them “racists.”

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  57. The White populations of Canada and Australia are more submissive. That may make the Left less eager to see them drowned out.

    Less eager, but the de-Whitening continues.

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  58. @Ron Unz
    For the life of me, I never understood why The Bell Curve was considered such a big deal. When it came out, I remember saying to myself "Hmm...I see Herrnstein's now decided to republish his big Atlantic article of twenty-odd years earlier in book form, and picked up Charles Murray as a coauthor." I remember being utterly shocked when Murray claimed the issues were entirely new to him, given the gigantic flap The Atlantic piece had originally generated, along with the earlier article in Harvard Educational Review by Jensen.

    If young Yglesias weren't so totally ignorant, he would have cited Peter Brimelow's Alien Nation book of that same year as the plausible underlying inspiration for Trump's immigration policies.

    But the really important and innovative book that came out around that same time was Phil Rushton's Race, Evolution & Behavior, for which he surely deserved a Nobel Prize...

    (And the Comment Archives will be back online shortly once I've finished adding some additional defenses against the massive bot-wave we experienced very early yesterday morning.)

    Oh please, oh please don’t take my Unz reader away. Best place on the internet.

    BTW-Lew Rockwell (my other American hero) is linking to Sailer at a furious rate. And who wouldn’t?

    But what’s up with over 300 comments on the blonde-dyed asian chick? With all that’s going on right now I think this is not a topic of concern.

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    Anne Coulter on twitter linked to the blonde Asians story.
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  59. @Boethiuss
    OT but not really:

    Donald Trump has moved the Overton Window in our favor. So, at least as it pertains to immigration, the Overton Window is not our problem. The problem is that the determination of the American people to assert our self-determination and protect our human capital is pretty marginal, really. If we had that determination, we could get the policies we need to implement it (e-Verify, the wall, birthright citizenship, whatever). Without that determination, those policies would be undermined and rendered ineffective even if we had them, which we don't.

    This the backdrop to yesterday, wherein the US Attorney's office for the Southern District of New York raided the office, house, and hotel of Donald Trump's personal attorney. There's a thousand possibilities relating to the motivations and consequences of this, and none of them are good.

    Among other things, if this is the Deep State going rogue, as has been suggested, this is not Mueller or the FBI (which has also been suggested). No this is the main Justice Dept which did this, including Rosenstein and maybe even Sessions (plus of course a judge to sign the warrant). There are a lot of institutional safeguards to prevent this from happening as a matter of routine business, so I'd venture that at the very least there's some prosecutor with a very solid set of facts to associate Michael Cohen with some kind of criminal activity.

    For me, the key question is what is that criminal activity? From what I've seen so far, it could be Stormy Daniels, it could be taxicab medallions in NYC, or it could be something bigger that we haven't heard of yet. Now, here's the thing: if it is Stormy Daniels, which is as good a guess as any right now, that is a horrible prosecutorial overreach. But, we don't have any good countermoves for it.

    Essentially, the way that's likely to shake down is, yeah, Cohen is guilty and Trump is guilty but they really shouldn't have raided a lawyer's office. Are we really going to get any traction from that? I'm doubting it.

    There's other bad consequences as well. First of all, the main play is that Cohen flips on Trump, and implicates the President in some kind of criminal activity, in exchange for immunity or reduced sentence for himself. But there's another angle which I suspect might end up being even more important. Even if Cohen refuses to cooperate, or doesn't know anything, or is protected from implicating Trump by attorney-client privilege, there's still all the documents, email, spreadsheets, online account info etc., now in possession of Mueller or the US Attorney's office to be referred to Mueller as the case may be.

    Now here's where I'm not completely confident, but my guess is, that even if Cohen's testimony isn't available or can't be used against Trump, whatever is in those documents can and will.

    If had better Establishment connections, he'd have better lawyers and he wouldn't be getting rolled up through My Cousin Vinny.

    As it pertains to us, we're at risk of losing support in the public opinion for Trump and the GOP. This is what kills us. We've got no margin to spare. The determination of the American people to assert our self-determination is weak enough as it is, without Trump weakening it further for unrelated reasons. A populist/conservative coalition is a winning hand in American politics right now. We can't afford to let Trump screw it up on his own crap.

    This is about Syria. Neocons want Assad dead. No matter what. And they won’t let Trump stand in their way of invading the world, now that’s he’s partially ruined their other pet cause: inviting the world.
    If I were Trump I’d go medieval on tbeir asses with executive orders and whatever support he still has in the military. Trump has been facing a coup ever since he got to the White House. It’s time for him to stage a counter-coup.

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    • Replies: @Boethiuss

    If I were Trump I’d go medieval on tbeir asses with executive orders and whatever support he still has in the military. Trump has been facing a coup ever since he got to the White House. It’s time for him to stage a counter-coup.
     
    Yeah, right.

    I swear you might as well be neocons. I doubt if there's a Member of the Tribe who pushes eternal war for Israel as much as much as some of you push eternal war for Trump.

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  60. @Mompara
    No. Herrnstein's Atlantic article did not deal with race per se, and The Bell Curve had the massive (for the time) NLSY dataset. It was and remains a big deal.

    No. Herrnstein’s Atlantic article did not deal with race per se, and The Bell Curve had the massive (for the time) NLSY dataset. It was and remains a big deal.

    I’ll admit I was just a child during the gigantic Jensen/Herrnstein/Shockley media flap, and have never read the articles of the former two.

    But wasn’t Jensen’s huge article primarily about race, and didn’t the MSM rather naturally connect it with Herrnstein’s subsequent popular discussion of IQ issues?

    Unless I’m mistaken, only a small slice of The Bell Curve focused on race, yet that became 95% of what people heard about from the media coverage. Similarly, it’s very possible that Herrnstein’s article “did not deal with race per se” but given the political upheavals of the late 1960s and Jensen’s very high-profile earlier work, isn’t that what everyone understood it to be about?

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    • Replies: @DRA
    Chapter 13 was the only place where IQ & Race were discussed. As I recall the rest of the book was very focused on IQ and its contributions and limitations on society, and only talked in terms of the general population (or perhaps only the white population) to avoid conflating the two topics.

    Basically, they only showed that blacks were pretty average in capabilities, compared to whites with the same IQs.

    I don't think Chapter 13 was chosen for the topic randomly. And of course, Chapter 13 was the only chapter really discussed in the "public square".

    A friend who wouldn't enjoy this blog read a shallow rebuttal in a forgettable magazine and concluded that the entire book was discredited, but could never actually get around to even skimming the book.
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  61. @candid_observer
    The reality is that a good number of the people many of us don't want as immigrants are undesirable not necessarily because of any genetic propensities, but because of their culture.

    We don't want immigrants who subscribe to a primitive form of Islam -- which appears to be most of the immigrants who are from Muslim countries. Are these people genetically greatly different from us? I honestly don't know. They may be not much different from us at all, in no small part because they are of the same race, Caucasian.

    But their culture is pernicious. And it's obvious that that culture is not going to change quickly, either in them, or in their children, or, most likely, in their children's children. That's just way too many people with a pernicious culture for way too long a time. Why on God's earth should we want them?

    One of the more obvious contradictions that today's progressive take as dogma is that, on the one hand, culture is omnipotent, and can mold human nature into any kind of thing that it wants, but that, on the other hand, the culture of those who come from primitive, brutal, undemocratic societies is going to magically and immediately transform into something enlightened and tolerant when people bring it to the West.

    Somehow, the racism of Western culture has proven all powerful and intractable, but the brutality of Islam will quickly fade away in its adherents upon contact with the West.

    Open borders is a threat to conservative politics now, but it’s a threat to liberal politics in the medium term in a democratic system. Aside from their shared preference for open borders, affirmative action/quotas, and a generous welfare state, Afghans and Somalis don’t have much in common culturally with Democrats. Which is why the logical endgame for an open borders America is an autocracy, run by a liberal technocrat like Bloomberg.

    One ironic silver lining of an autocracy is there’d be no more incentive to import migrants for their votes (there’d still be an incentive to import cheap, compliant labor, but limiting it to just that would mean a big reduction in immigration overall).

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    • Replies: @dfordoom

    Which is why the logical endgame for an open borders America is an autocracy, run by a liberal technocrat like Bloomberg.
     
    Yes, eventually liberals will have to scrap the charade of democracy and replace it with an openly totalitarian system. Most liberals look forward to this as a positive development. Democracy scares them.
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  62. @Ron Unz
    For the life of me, I never understood why The Bell Curve was considered such a big deal. When it came out, I remember saying to myself "Hmm...I see Herrnstein's now decided to republish his big Atlantic article of twenty-odd years earlier in book form, and picked up Charles Murray as a coauthor." I remember being utterly shocked when Murray claimed the issues were entirely new to him, given the gigantic flap The Atlantic piece had originally generated, along with the earlier article in Harvard Educational Review by Jensen.

    If young Yglesias weren't so totally ignorant, he would have cited Peter Brimelow's Alien Nation book of that same year as the plausible underlying inspiration for Trump's immigration policies.

    But the really important and innovative book that came out around that same time was Phil Rushton's Race, Evolution & Behavior, for which he surely deserved a Nobel Prize...

    (And the Comment Archives will be back online shortly once I've finished adding some additional defenses against the massive bot-wave we experienced very early yesterday morning.)

    Matty has an excuse, he hit his head when he was Polar-Beared.

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  63. @Anonymous

    If young Yglesias weren’t so totally ignorant, he would have cited Peter Brimelow’s Alien Nation book of that same year as the plausible underlying inspiration for Trump’s immigration policies.
     
    It must make Steve feel like quite an old man to read Matt Yglesias, whose work he's been writing about intermittently since 2004 or so, still being described as "young"!

    It must make Steve feel like quite an old man to read Matt Yglesias, whose work he’s been writing about intermittently since 2004 or so, still being described as “young”!

    Well, I started following Yglesias when he launched his blog soon after graduating college or something like that, so I guess I’ll always think of him as someone just out of college…

    I hate to say it, but he never seemed to really make the transition from being a provocative blogger to being a serious journalist or intellectual. Some of his blog posts were really pretty witty, but I can’t think of one article he’s ever written since then that made much of an impression on me.

    Scratch that. After he was randomly attacked by a couple of blacks in DC playing “knockout game” he suggested that the true underlying cause of urban violence was housing density regulations or that sort of thing. Ha, ha, ha…

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    • Replies: @Dmitry

    but he never seemed to really make the transition from being a provocative blogger to being a serious journalist or intellectual.
     
    It's not like there are any serious intellectuals working in the anglo media, and very few even serious journalists (it's more like a profession of political activists, who - at the best - will also be witty or have a good vocabulary range).
    , @Lot
    His trolling of rich liberal NIMBYs on restrictive housing regulations is his one contribution to this world.
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  64. @candid_observer
    Yeah, it's such a crazy idea that we might as a nation profit from bringing in only immigrants who might have good skills, and who would immediately contribute to the economy, instead of being a drain on our social services.

    Only an out of control racist would want that.

    Well, an immigration policy – any immigration policy outside of accepting anyone and everyone – could lead to another voyage of the St. Louis for a certain group.

    Sure, there’s a homeland now, but you never know. Best to multiple back-up plans, and that means every country should allow in refugees and anyone showing up at their door. Just in case.

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    • Replies: @Anonymous
    That's right. There's no Jewish conspiracy to flood the West with brown people. There is however a determination to keep all borders unconditionally open. For a people who live scattered across the world, this is the paramount issue.
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  65. @27 year old
    Can anyone else no longer see commenter comment histories? When I click my own name I get unz message: "We're sorry, that page cannot be found". Same thing when I click anyone else's name.

    Ron Unz, please do the needful.

    All our comments were seized when the Feds put boots to the doors over at Cohen’s house. Do you think Steve was out of business yesterday because he chose to close? Hmmmmm?

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  66. @Dave Pinsen

    I would suggest you can’t have capitalism in a debt-based fiat currency system
     
    Why not?

    I would suggest you can’t have capitalism in a debt-based fiat currency system

    Why not?

    MORAL HAZARD

    The temptation is too strong to print up money and reduce interest rates to zero and to bail out American International Group so AIG could bail out Goldman Sachs and to bury future generations under unpayable debt when you have a debt-based fiat currency system.

    China and the United States are going bankrupt at the same time. Unpayable debt built up on a debt-based fiat currency system is not just an American problem.

    China has created more debt out of thin air than America. They will have to implode their economy just as we are going to have to let our various asset bubbles pop.

    The first rule of capitalism: What is the capital?

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  67. @27 year old
    Can anyone else no longer see commenter comment histories? When I click my own name I get unz message: "We're sorry, that page cannot be found". Same thing when I click anyone else's name.

    Ron Unz, please do the needful.

    Can anyone else no longer see commenter comment histories? When I click my own name I get unz message: “We’re sorry, that page cannot be found”. Same thing when I click anyone else’s name.

    Recently this feature comes and goes. It seems that Ron’s software has trouble implementing it the past week. Perhaps because site is under low level attack? But this self search has always been slow, so maybe a flaw.
    And guess what. Self search just worked for me a minute ago. I am sure it will start failing again.

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  68. I doubt if he really read it – maybe the one chapter that talks about race – or the CliffsNotes version. A guy like him is only looking for phrases.

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  69. @Anon
    Will people like Yglesias explain WHY they chose to emigrate to white-majority nations created by Anglos and Germanics?

    Fat Matt is Jewish and Hispanic, right? Jews could have sought out OTHER places to emigrate to.
    And yet, when Jews had a chance to leave backward Russian empire, they almost always chose the nations created by Anglo-Wasp-Germanic 'white supremacists'. Jews are strangely and perniciously attracted to 'white supremacism'. Why?

    And 'Hispanics', both blanco and Indigeno, want to move from Diversity to whiter nations.

    And when Hindus and Asians are given a chance to emigrate, their top choices are almost always Anglo-Germanic made nations.

    Isn't that pernicious? Instead of just focusing on WHITE immigration policy, we should look at NON-WHITE and JEWISH immigration preferences. Even as they berate 'white supremacism', they want to move to nations made by 'white supremacism'.

    Even among African nations, the #1 favorite destination for Jews was white-ruled South Africa. How many Jews wanted to move to Zaire or Congo? How many wanted to move to Zimbabwe after Mugabe took over? Well, well, how pernicious of Jews to favor White-ruled South Africa over other African nations ruled by blacks.

    Love your points. So true. Every one of them!

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  70. @Tiny Duck
    Murray's not a scientist, he doesn't have any findings. He’s a racist clown using pseudoscience to sound persuasive. I only took two years of statistics/econometrics and it was patently obvious to me that the “evidence” he presents in “The Bell Curve” is either full of holes or a priori complete BS.He interpreted difference in IQ between groups. The argument is over the interpretation, and many scientists disagree with his. Have you guys been following this debate closely? The bell curve is premised upon the notion that there can be an objective measure of "intelligence" measured by the subjective and often discriminatory IQ tests drawn up by mostly middle aged white men. And there is nothing in it that Adolf Hitler would not fully endorse. Think about that

    In Dark Money Jane Mayer mentions Murray as just one of many scholars who received significant help because of his political usefulness rather than his... merit. He is not a lonely ostracized academic in search of an audience.


    Sorry guys. The majority are against you. The culture and art is against you

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hzMzFGgmQOc

    Did you take a wrong turn and get lost somewhere? Buddy…

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  71. @Buffalo Joe
    Syon, ..."individual schoolteachers vary in quality," but unfortunately they all get paid the same and are immune from termination regarding their skill level.

    Syon, …”individual schoolteachers vary in quality,” but unfortunately they all get paid the same and are immune from termination regarding their skill level.

    Yup. Plus, if standards were raised, that would have disparate impact consequences in regards to Black teachers…..

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  72. @Sunbeam
    A theory.

    I'd say the problem with it is no one really believes the mainstream media any more. They are that ridiculous. Literally the morning talk shows start now by playing what Jimmy Kimmel or Steven Colbert did on their monologue last night.

    Better be a heck of a smoking gun. Do you really think anyone at all is going to get their knickers in a twist if Stormy Daniels was paid off?

    They'll bleat about it on the news, make jokes on the talk shows. The only people who will care or pay attention are the people that want to experience Trump hate enough to watch that Trevor Noah show.

    Tell you what though. I'd absolutely love it if a special counsel was named to investigate Mueller. And Comey. And...

    Use exactly the same tactics, and engage in a perpetual dirt digging operation.

    I’d say the problem with it is no one really believes the mainstream media any more. They are that ridiculous. Literally the morning talk shows start now by playing what Jimmy Kimmel or Steven Colbert did on their monologue last night.

    Better be a heck of a smoking gun. Do you really think anyone at all is going to get their knickers in a twist if Stormy Daniels was paid off?

    No, it’s not about about what the MSM can convince its audience of. It’s about what dozens of well-paid federal prosecutors can convince a jury of, while Michael Cohen has to gets maybe 2-3 guys tops and has to pay maybe hundreds of thousands to do it, if he’s got that much money lying around.

    It’s not localized to Stormy Daniels either. If it were, I don’t think it would be nearly as important. It’s at least as likely that Bob Mueller has a paper trail of every real estate scam, every fraudulent loan application, and every shady business Trump has owned a part of in three decades as a New York businessman. I’m not even counting anything related to Russia, yet.

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    • Replies: @Sunbeam
    "It’s not localized to Stormy Daniels either. If it were, I don’t think it would be nearly as important. It’s at least as likely that Bob Mueller has a paper trail of every real estate scam, every fraudulent loan application, and every shady business Trump has owned a part of in three decades as a New York businessman. I’m not even counting anything related to Russia, yet."

    My take on it is can you get enough Democrats + Republicans in the Senate to vote for impeachment.

    " A simple majority of the House is required to impeach the president. However, after impeachment the president remains in office until trial by the Senate.
    In the Senate, the House Judiciary Committee acts as the prosecution, the Senate as the jury and the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court as the judge who rules on the admissibility of the evidence presented. The accused president can hire his/her own lawyers. A two-thirds majority of the Senate is required to vote against the accused and remove the president from office."

    Got 67 votes to do so?

    The histrionics of the whole thing would be through the roof. God I bet some of those guys are absolutely giddy at the notion. Never before would such a grandstanding stage be given to so many self-important utter hacks in world history.

    Meanwhile nothing will be able to be accomplished by the Executive Branch. Well if anyone is capable of utterly ignoring the whole thing Trump is, which would work.

    But I absolutely guarantee you prosecuting one of these military actions like Iran, Iraq, or even what we have going in Syria would be utterly impossible.

    Congress you know, just not ever willing to go on record with an identifiable vote count for actually declaring war instead of just letting the Prez do whatever he wants or is amiable enough to do.
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  73. @Ron Unz
    For the life of me, I never understood why The Bell Curve was considered such a big deal. When it came out, I remember saying to myself "Hmm...I see Herrnstein's now decided to republish his big Atlantic article of twenty-odd years earlier in book form, and picked up Charles Murray as a coauthor." I remember being utterly shocked when Murray claimed the issues were entirely new to him, given the gigantic flap The Atlantic piece had originally generated, along with the earlier article in Harvard Educational Review by Jensen.

    If young Yglesias weren't so totally ignorant, he would have cited Peter Brimelow's Alien Nation book of that same year as the plausible underlying inspiration for Trump's immigration policies.

    But the really important and innovative book that came out around that same time was Phil Rushton's Race, Evolution & Behavior, for which he surely deserved a Nobel Prize...

    (And the Comment Archives will be back online shortly once I've finished adding some additional defenses against the massive bot-wave we experienced very early yesterday morning.)

    For the life of me, I never understood why The Bell Curve was considered such a big deal.

    What’s more curious/interesting/puzzling/funny is that for a book published in 1994, it seems to have had a re-birth of interest, or obtained a “second wind” for public discussion and alleged controversy. I can’t recall more than a passing mention of the book in ages.

    Perhaps it was the contretemps at Middlebury when Murray appeared to discuss his more recent “Coming Apart: The State of White America 1960-2010″ (2012).

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  74. @Thomm
    Ironically, the Bell Curve, or rather, skill-level, should indeed be the primary principle of any immigration policy. Canada, thus, has a much better immigration policy than the US.

    Skilled immigrants (with a special exclusion for Arab Muslims) : Yes.
    Unskilled immigrants/family reuinification beyond spouse and minor children : No.
    Illegals : HELL No.

    It is surprising how few agree with this from either side. WNs say it is too generous, and SJWs say it is too strict. Both WNs and SJWs are left-wing and anti-merit, but it is telling how concave the distribution of views on immigration is (and how ignorant most bloviators are).

    Skilled immigration from poor countries probably makes us and the poor countries worse off. A Cameroonian immigrant in a U.S. medical school probably took a spot from a more talented American applicant, and if he stays here, Cameroon has lost one of its most talented citizens.

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    • Replies: @Charles Erwin Wilson II

    A Cameroonian immigrant in a U.S. medical school probably took a spot from a more talented American applicant, and if he stays here, Cameroon has lost one of its most talented citizens.
     
    It is true. Someone here called it 'strip-mining intellectual talent from third-world countries' and it is.

    I don't want an affirmative action doctor, or nurse, or medical technician, or any other medical worker - even janitors can leave behind something deadly for you to become infected with.
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  75. @candid_observer
    The reality is that a good number of the people many of us don't want as immigrants are undesirable not necessarily because of any genetic propensities, but because of their culture.

    We don't want immigrants who subscribe to a primitive form of Islam -- which appears to be most of the immigrants who are from Muslim countries. Are these people genetically greatly different from us? I honestly don't know. They may be not much different from us at all, in no small part because they are of the same race, Caucasian.

    But their culture is pernicious. And it's obvious that that culture is not going to change quickly, either in them, or in their children, or, most likely, in their children's children. That's just way too many people with a pernicious culture for way too long a time. Why on God's earth should we want them?

    One of the more obvious contradictions that today's progressive take as dogma is that, on the one hand, culture is omnipotent, and can mold human nature into any kind of thing that it wants, but that, on the other hand, the culture of those who come from primitive, brutal, undemocratic societies is going to magically and immediately transform into something enlightened and tolerant when people bring it to the West.

    Somehow, the racism of Western culture has proven all powerful and intractable, but the brutality of Islam will quickly fade away in its adherents upon contact with the West.

    You’re thinking about it like a man. It’s not supposed to make logical sense, because modern day leftist dogma is a female-oriented construct. It’s feels over reals. The women and estrogenized men who feed the belief system are guided by a mindless hatred towards the groups that, in the division of society into oppressed and oppressors that they have imagined, are on the oppressor side (aka the “white cishetero patriarchy”, and you could add “Christian” and “attractive” for good measure), and anything that hurts them is good, and anything that benefits those on the other side is good. There’s no consideration for how this affects their values long-term. Islam falls under “Brown, non-Christian, foreign, poor, stupid, ugly” (no offence, but most Muslims are not attractive) and so they don’t even care to think how compatible it is with typical white upper middle class Democrat values.

    Also, more importantly when it comes to Islam, SJW women are not actually repelled by it. Sure, they may feign outrage when reports of ISIS throwing gay men off roofs appear, but Islam mostly intrigues and slightly excites them. There’s a reason why the homophobic jock bully in high school always got the girl (who then went to college and became BFFs with a few gay guys, but broke of all contact once she got married and had kids). The burka is a cute fashion accessory (and, for fatties, means a chance to hide the double chin and rolls). The devotion, piousness and deference to men activate the side of their brain that Christianity vacated in their own culture. The barbaric jihadis and raping refugees are backwards societal drains, but they do not subscribe to the norms of politeness and acceptability that their own men do. That excites a lot of women. Perhaps a lot of them would find they do not enjoy Islam in practice, but then again, there are an infinity of Muslim women who really do like their way of life. But they have far more disgust and contempt towards submissive men from their own race and social class.

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    • Replies: @Charles Erwin Wilson II
    Whiskey, we know it is you.
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  76. @Thomm
    Ironically, the Bell Curve, or rather, skill-level, should indeed be the primary principle of any immigration policy. Canada, thus, has a much better immigration policy than the US.

    Skilled immigrants (with a special exclusion for Arab Muslims) : Yes.
    Unskilled immigrants/family reuinification beyond spouse and minor children : No.
    Illegals : HELL No.

    It is surprising how few agree with this from either side. WNs say it is too generous, and SJWs say it is too strict. Both WNs and SJWs are left-wing and anti-merit, but it is telling how concave the distribution of views on immigration is (and how ignorant most bloviators are).

    How about anyone with an IQ >85 can immigrate to India? It might turn into China #2 once the Chinese start having more kids, but it would certainly improve the Indian economy. And think of the gain in scientific output. Chinese people are good hardworking people who will bring much needed skills to India.

    I don’t put much faith in Indian credentials, so we will go with a simple IQ test to know if they are needed. After all, according to polls, most Indians value intelligence.

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  77. Just in the last thirty years, Canada’s host white European population has declined from its historically steady 90%+ to close to 75%. In powerhouse provinces like BC and Ontario, it’s down closer to two thirds and in TO and Vancouver we’re talking 50%. And that demographic trend is accelerating. Well before century’s end, the host and founding population of this country will be a minority, with Asian and African groups forming the majority. We’re supposed to welcome this national transformation because it is good for the national IQ? The way they are presently rewriting Canadian history to make it sound like it has always been a multicultural country or even (according to Prof. Henry Yu at UBC) that the Chinese were one of the founding people and English is a white supremacist language, certainly doesn’t sound like they are writing for a high IQ audience.

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    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Every immigrant group writes itself into the history of its new nation. It's pointless getting indignant over this. If you don't want foreigners rewriting your history, don't let them settle in your country in anything but token numbers.
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  78. @J.Ross
    OT 4chan
    Right now 4chan's politics board is an unmoderated mess. I am not allowed to comment there, but they are letting me comment on other boards, which is a reversal of earlier policy based on the idea that /pol/ regulars should be contained. Maybe it's IP harvesting again, although I have been consistent in not seeing Russia as an existential threat and in calling out spam, and have been called a Russian several times. A lot of spam today -- a kind of confirmation that something is happening. Rumors about aircraft movement, both Western and Russian. One spampost, notable because it looks like it came straight from a government functionary who has never visited 4chan before, dismisses all anti-Establishment opinion as "Russian propaganda." So we are seeing that 4chan is definitely on the radar now and they see flat out jamming us when it's time for operations as a necessary step.
    Brief over-broad historical note: they are backwards. People lived in "echo chambers," and distrusted unfamiliar sources and incredible information, for all of human history. Only very recently has technology and mass media made the modern slackjawed credulity possible. They do this to shore up the sinking Mighty Wurlitzer with the illusion that they are the norm and 4chan is some mutation. Battering us with thoroughly discredited talking points, that we tore apart a year and a half ago, is unlikely to succeed, in my humble opinion, even if they simultaneously prevent us from pointing out how silly they look.

    /Pol/ gets vaunted a lot, but I find it hard to read. There’s a lot of spam and scrolling. The worthwhile stuff is hard to find. I’m not a conspiracy theorist. But I wouldn’t be at all surprised if there wasn’t some sort of ten cent army attacking it with boring posts. It would be in the interests of some governments certainly, and they have a high enough profile to get noticed.

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  79. @Citizen of a Silly Country
    Btw, I tried to listen to the Sam Harris/Ezra Klein podcast. Made it for about 30-45 minutes and stopped. Both guys really like to hear themselves talk. (Klein has a very punchable voice.) Regardless, it was mostly Harris saying that Klein needs to address the science and data and Klein saying you can't look at the science and data without considering history and feelings.

    If anyone around here thinks that the science will change minds, you've got another thing coming.

    Btw, I tried to listen to the Sam Harris/Ezra Klein podcast. Made it for about 30-45 minutes and stopped.

    I’m about to give it a shot while hiking. It feels kind of wrong listening to something so toxic while out in nature…

    I don’t know what the hell they could be talking about for two damn hours. We’ll see if I have to tap out.

    … and Klein saying you can’t look at the science and data without considering history and feelings.

    The spirit of Stephen Jay Gould lives on. Ugh.

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  80. I once admired Donald Trump and Jeff Sessions. It amazing how thoroughly both have disappointed me in such a short amount of time.

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    I once admired Donald Trump and Jeff Sessions. It amazing how thoroughly both have disappointed me in such a short amount of time.
     
    I think Sessions has been getting a bad rap from Trump for the most part, but I don't he's exactly covered himself in glory with this Cohen business. From everything we've heard this is about Stormy Daniels so I don't see any reason why Sessions should be recused.
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  81. @Dave Pinsen
    Why isn't it legitimate for Republicans to oppose certain kinds of immigration on political grounds alone? If Hispanic immigrants voted >70% for Republicans, Democrats would oppose them, regardless of the immigrants' IQ, skills, or other fitness.

    That the minority of Republican-voting immigrants are likely beneficial ones should be thought of as a positive side-effect of them; Republican immigration policy, in the immediate term, should be focussed on countering the Democrats' decades-long importation of ringers.

    If Hispanics voted >70% Republican, the Left would be manning machine gun nests at the border.

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  82. Skilled immigration from poor countries probably makes us and the poor countries worse off. A Cameroonian immigrant in a U.S. medical school probably took a spot from a more talented American applicant, and if he stays here, Cameroon has lost one of its most talented citizens.

    Two problems with this worldview.

    1) Almost all skilled immigrants are white or Asian (East or South). Asians don’t get affirmative action.
    2) You don’t think the nation-state matters at all. It seems you have never pondered why West Germany was so much richer than East Germany in 1989, or why North Korea is so much poorer than South Korea today, even with no genetic difference between the two citizenries in each example.

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  83. @Boethiuss

    I’d say the problem with it is no one really believes the mainstream media any more. They are that ridiculous. Literally the morning talk shows start now by playing what Jimmy Kimmel or Steven Colbert did on their monologue last night.

    Better be a heck of a smoking gun. Do you really think anyone at all is going to get their knickers in a twist if Stormy Daniels was paid off?
     
    No, it's not about about what the MSM can convince its audience of. It's about what dozens of well-paid federal prosecutors can convince a jury of, while Michael Cohen has to gets maybe 2-3 guys tops and has to pay maybe hundreds of thousands to do it, if he's got that much money lying around.

    It's not localized to Stormy Daniels either. If it were, I don't think it would be nearly as important. It's at least as likely that Bob Mueller has a paper trail of every real estate scam, every fraudulent loan application, and every shady business Trump has owned a part of in three decades as a New York businessman. I'm not even counting anything related to Russia, yet.

    “It’s not localized to Stormy Daniels either. If it were, I don’t think it would be nearly as important. It’s at least as likely that Bob Mueller has a paper trail of every real estate scam, every fraudulent loan application, and every shady business Trump has owned a part of in three decades as a New York businessman. I’m not even counting anything related to Russia, yet.”

    My take on it is can you get enough Democrats + Republicans in the Senate to vote for impeachment.

    ” A simple majority of the House is required to impeach the president. However, after impeachment the president remains in office until trial by the Senate.
    In the Senate, the House Judiciary Committee acts as the prosecution, the Senate as the jury and the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court as the judge who rules on the admissibility of the evidence presented. The accused president can hire his/her own lawyers. A two-thirds majority of the Senate is required to vote against the accused and remove the president from office.”

    Got 67 votes to do so?

    The histrionics of the whole thing would be through the roof. God I bet some of those guys are absolutely giddy at the notion. Never before would such a grandstanding stage be given to so many self-important utter hacks in world history.

    Meanwhile nothing will be able to be accomplished by the Executive Branch. Well if anyone is capable of utterly ignoring the whole thing Trump is, which would work.

    But I absolutely guarantee you prosecuting one of these military actions like Iran, Iraq, or even what we have going in Syria would be utterly impossible.

    Congress you know, just not ever willing to go on record with an identifiable vote count for actually declaring war instead of just letting the Prez do whatever he wants or is amiable enough to do.

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    • Replies: @Boethiuss

    My take on it is can you get enough Democrats + Republicans in the Senate to vote for impeachment[?]
     
    My take on this is we're fcuked on this long before impeachment is close to materializing, like somehow the American people have an obligation to wait until Trump is actually impeached before they take it out on anything associated with Trump, ie us, and restrictionist immigration policy.
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  84. Steve is there a glitch on the site? When I try to see my posting history by clicking on my name it says page not found or some such. Is Ron working on the site or something

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  85. Anonymous[427] • Disclaimer says:

    When I was a libty, we were often accused of being the people who wanted to go out to the airport with hammers, saws, a tape measure and lumber and build our own plane instead of buying a ticket n an airliner. I thought that was a stupid statement then, especially because when I was a card carrying member of the state and national Libertarian Party I was also an EAA member and there was zero overlap there, in terms of who would do one or the other. Most EAAers were nominally Republicans and conservative on economic issues, but they looked at it in a very different way than the libtys and thought that the libtys were idiots.

    Seeing the tech issues with this site, I think I now understand better what those critics meant.

    Ron is smarter than I am and probably designed this whole thing himself, but it has problems off the shelf solutions don’t, and the problem is bigger than any one person can handle. It’s why Linux is not a great desktop and why people pay for Photoshop instead.

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  86. OT Get it before they replace it with panic spam about the Syria situation. The first two images in the linked thread are purported to be of a promotional campaign by a Mid-Western university. They pair graduate portraits with what the kids studied. In the name of diversification, some of these things are impressive (“establishing genetic causes of disease”) and some are less impressive (“combatting sugar cravings”).

    http://boards.4chan.org/pol/thread/167593267

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  87. The Bell Curve set the stage for Justin Trudeauvian immigration policy

    There are more Mexicans in Idaho than in the entire nation of Canada. How is that possible? It’s almost as if immigration policies work if you actually enforce them. Still, there is no shortage of Mexican restaurants in Vancouver. I’ve checked into a couple of kitchens in restaurants in Calgary, somehow they still function without a massive Mexican population.

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  88. @candid_observer
    The reality is that a good number of the people many of us don't want as immigrants are undesirable not necessarily because of any genetic propensities, but because of their culture.

    We don't want immigrants who subscribe to a primitive form of Islam -- which appears to be most of the immigrants who are from Muslim countries. Are these people genetically greatly different from us? I honestly don't know. They may be not much different from us at all, in no small part because they are of the same race, Caucasian.

    But their culture is pernicious. And it's obvious that that culture is not going to change quickly, either in them, or in their children, or, most likely, in their children's children. That's just way too many people with a pernicious culture for way too long a time. Why on God's earth should we want them?

    One of the more obvious contradictions that today's progressive take as dogma is that, on the one hand, culture is omnipotent, and can mold human nature into any kind of thing that it wants, but that, on the other hand, the culture of those who come from primitive, brutal, undemocratic societies is going to magically and immediately transform into something enlightened and tolerant when people bring it to the West.

    Somehow, the racism of Western culture has proven all powerful and intractable, but the brutality of Islam will quickly fade away in its adherents upon contact with the West.

    One of the more obvious contradictions that today’s progressive take as dogma is that, on the one hand, culture is omnipotent, and can mold human nature into any kind of thing that it wants, but that, on the other hand, the culture of those who come from primitive, brutal, undemocratic societies is going to magically and immediately transform into something enlightened and tolerant when people bring it to the West.

    Well said. But the truth is that there are so many contradictions in progressive dogma, it’s pointless to even look for consistency.

    When it comes to immigration, it’s clear that mass immigration is opposed to essentially *every* value progressives claim to hold across all domains, employment, wages and income, the welfare state, social policies, the environment, etc. etc.

    Real progressives interested in the welfare of the working class, never want immigration.

    It’s clear that the “progressive” love of mass immigration is essentially driven by one value–destroying the white gentile built American nation, and creating a nothing nation full of dependency creating a solid vote bank for the super state party.

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  89. @Redmen
    Oh please, oh please don’t take my Unz reader away. Best place on the internet.

    BTW-Lew Rockwell (my other American hero) is linking to Sailer at a furious rate. And who wouldn’t?

    But what’s up with over 300 comments on the blonde-dyed asian chick? With all that’s going on right now I think this is not a topic of concern.

    Anne Coulter on twitter linked to the blonde Asians story.

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  90. @Boethiuss
    OT but not really:

    Donald Trump has moved the Overton Window in our favor. So, at least as it pertains to immigration, the Overton Window is not our problem. The problem is that the determination of the American people to assert our self-determination and protect our human capital is pretty marginal, really. If we had that determination, we could get the policies we need to implement it (e-Verify, the wall, birthright citizenship, whatever). Without that determination, those policies would be undermined and rendered ineffective even if we had them, which we don't.

    This the backdrop to yesterday, wherein the US Attorney's office for the Southern District of New York raided the office, house, and hotel of Donald Trump's personal attorney. There's a thousand possibilities relating to the motivations and consequences of this, and none of them are good.

    Among other things, if this is the Deep State going rogue, as has been suggested, this is not Mueller or the FBI (which has also been suggested). No this is the main Justice Dept which did this, including Rosenstein and maybe even Sessions (plus of course a judge to sign the warrant). There are a lot of institutional safeguards to prevent this from happening as a matter of routine business, so I'd venture that at the very least there's some prosecutor with a very solid set of facts to associate Michael Cohen with some kind of criminal activity.

    For me, the key question is what is that criminal activity? From what I've seen so far, it could be Stormy Daniels, it could be taxicab medallions in NYC, or it could be something bigger that we haven't heard of yet. Now, here's the thing: if it is Stormy Daniels, which is as good a guess as any right now, that is a horrible prosecutorial overreach. But, we don't have any good countermoves for it.

    Essentially, the way that's likely to shake down is, yeah, Cohen is guilty and Trump is guilty but they really shouldn't have raided a lawyer's office. Are we really going to get any traction from that? I'm doubting it.

    There's other bad consequences as well. First of all, the main play is that Cohen flips on Trump, and implicates the President in some kind of criminal activity, in exchange for immunity or reduced sentence for himself. But there's another angle which I suspect might end up being even more important. Even if Cohen refuses to cooperate, or doesn't know anything, or is protected from implicating Trump by attorney-client privilege, there's still all the documents, email, spreadsheets, online account info etc., now in possession of Mueller or the US Attorney's office to be referred to Mueller as the case may be.

    Now here's where I'm not completely confident, but my guess is, that even if Cohen's testimony isn't available or can't be used against Trump, whatever is in those documents can and will.

    If had better Establishment connections, he'd have better lawyers and he wouldn't be getting rolled up through My Cousin Vinny.

    As it pertains to us, we're at risk of losing support in the public opinion for Trump and the GOP. This is what kills us. We've got no margin to spare. The determination of the American people to assert our self-determination is weak enough as it is, without Trump weakening it further for unrelated reasons. A populist/conservative coalition is a winning hand in American politics right now. We can't afford to let Trump screw it up on his own crap.

    “So, at least as it pertains to immigration, the Overton Window is not our problem.”

    In political races, sure. Republicans can and do win advocating solid restrictionist policies. In elite circles, definitely not. Here is an article comparing donations in 2012 to 2016 of employees of elite law firms and investment banks.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/06/opinion/trump-lawyers-elites.html

    In 2012 Romney received 42% of these donations. In 2016, Trump received less than 1%, only 40 donations out of 4812. While Romney’s elite background and positions compared to Trump among these elites partly explains this, populism isn’t -that- unpopular among elites, nor 100-1 less popular than Hillary-ism. The difference is that these people, who are working-age ambitious elites still running the rat race, are scared to make a public donation to Trump.

    This is why Trump’s boorish behavior is so concerning. It got him votes and let him beat Jeb and Rubio amd Hillary, but it helped make him and immigrantion restriction even more toxic in elite circles, which explains why now that he is in office he has been so ineffective at doing much more than cutting the taxes of the rich and appointing judges who are largely former corporate lawyers or Koch-network functionaries.

    I don’t mean to blame Trump completely, but he made a pre-existing trend worse for sure.

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    • Replies: @J.Ross
    Oh no, if we can't use the proper fork, we will not get patronage from our imperious masters, and we will start to undo the central political crime of our lifetimes. Release the hounds!
    , @Charles Erwin Wilson II

    I don’t mean to blame Trump completely, but he made a pre-existing trend worse for sure.
     
    The alternatives were dramatically inferior to Trump. Except maybe Santorum - I heard him advocating for no illegal immigration, and dramatic reductions in legal immigration. He was close to what I would like to see, which is an immigration moratorium.

    But Santorum had zero traction. Trump was the only choice. Yes, he is a bastard and a son-of-a-bitch, but he is our bastard and son-of-a-bitch. We have Trump or we have no one.
    , @Boethiuss

    This is why Trump’s boorish behavior is so concerning. It got him votes and let him beat Jeb and Rubio amd Hillary, but it helped make him and immigrantion restriction even more toxic in elite circles, which explains why now that he is in office he has been so ineffective at doing much more than cutting the taxes of the rich and appointing judges who are largely former corporate lawyers or Koch-network functionaries.
     
    Yeah, this is exactly right. It understates the case even. Trump's persona turns off elites and non-elites both. Or as I like to put, the Overton Window is better for us because of Trump, but our position within the Window is worse.
    , @TTSSYF
    His boorish behavior has been egged on by the Left and Never Trumpers in their unwillingness to accept the results of the election and ride it out until 2020, when they can make another run for the White House. A not-so-silent coup has been underway ever since 11/9/2017. I don't think he'd be quite so boorish if he were being allowed to govern and not being assailed from all directions.

    Like many others, it's been my belief for years that we've been letting in too many of the wrong people (lower IQ and/or congenital Leftists) and have mis-educated the native born (an incredible number of young people, albeit more women than men, ascribe to socialism) and have changed the character of the country, likely irreversibly. It's a tragedy but perhaps unavoidable. The global forces pushing the "blank slate" theory being played out in Europe, Australia, Canada, and the U.S. are too great, and those pushing it are too unwilling to be reasonable for there to be any resolution other than their outright defeat...and that very well may mean war.

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  91. @Ron Unz
    For the life of me, I never understood why The Bell Curve was considered such a big deal. When it came out, I remember saying to myself "Hmm...I see Herrnstein's now decided to republish his big Atlantic article of twenty-odd years earlier in book form, and picked up Charles Murray as a coauthor." I remember being utterly shocked when Murray claimed the issues were entirely new to him, given the gigantic flap The Atlantic piece had originally generated, along with the earlier article in Harvard Educational Review by Jensen.

    If young Yglesias weren't so totally ignorant, he would have cited Peter Brimelow's Alien Nation book of that same year as the plausible underlying inspiration for Trump's immigration policies.

    But the really important and innovative book that came out around that same time was Phil Rushton's Race, Evolution & Behavior, for which he surely deserved a Nobel Prize...

    (And the Comment Archives will be back online shortly once I've finished adding some additional defenses against the massive bot-wave we experienced very early yesterday morning.)

    For the life of me, I never understood why The Bell Curve was considered such a big deal.

    Because it’s hard to read through the book in its entirety (including the appendices and endnotes!), yet easy to cherry pick quotes from it that sound scandalous absent their (voluminous) context.

    I wouldn’t be surprised that had Herrnstein and Murray chose to use footnotes over endnotes, there would be a surprising reduction in its controversy. Footnotes would immediately contextualize their claims with supporting citations; endnotes annoyingly force the reader to flip pages and potentially lose the context.

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    • Replies: @songbird
    It's the title. It is a pithy attack on egalitarianism (2 syllables - not counting "the", common words) which is easy for people who haven't read the book to understand. It's memorable too because it paints a picture.

    Contrast it to"The Blank Slate" which is rather vague-sounding and might be for or against egalitarianism, if you haven't read it.
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  92. @Boethiuss
    OT but not really:

    Donald Trump has moved the Overton Window in our favor. So, at least as it pertains to immigration, the Overton Window is not our problem. The problem is that the determination of the American people to assert our self-determination and protect our human capital is pretty marginal, really. If we had that determination, we could get the policies we need to implement it (e-Verify, the wall, birthright citizenship, whatever). Without that determination, those policies would be undermined and rendered ineffective even if we had them, which we don't.

    This the backdrop to yesterday, wherein the US Attorney's office for the Southern District of New York raided the office, house, and hotel of Donald Trump's personal attorney. There's a thousand possibilities relating to the motivations and consequences of this, and none of them are good.

    Among other things, if this is the Deep State going rogue, as has been suggested, this is not Mueller or the FBI (which has also been suggested). No this is the main Justice Dept which did this, including Rosenstein and maybe even Sessions (plus of course a judge to sign the warrant). There are a lot of institutional safeguards to prevent this from happening as a matter of routine business, so I'd venture that at the very least there's some prosecutor with a very solid set of facts to associate Michael Cohen with some kind of criminal activity.

    For me, the key question is what is that criminal activity? From what I've seen so far, it could be Stormy Daniels, it could be taxicab medallions in NYC, or it could be something bigger that we haven't heard of yet. Now, here's the thing: if it is Stormy Daniels, which is as good a guess as any right now, that is a horrible prosecutorial overreach. But, we don't have any good countermoves for it.

    Essentially, the way that's likely to shake down is, yeah, Cohen is guilty and Trump is guilty but they really shouldn't have raided a lawyer's office. Are we really going to get any traction from that? I'm doubting it.

    There's other bad consequences as well. First of all, the main play is that Cohen flips on Trump, and implicates the President in some kind of criminal activity, in exchange for immunity or reduced sentence for himself. But there's another angle which I suspect might end up being even more important. Even if Cohen refuses to cooperate, or doesn't know anything, or is protected from implicating Trump by attorney-client privilege, there's still all the documents, email, spreadsheets, online account info etc., now in possession of Mueller or the US Attorney's office to be referred to Mueller as the case may be.

    Now here's where I'm not completely confident, but my guess is, that even if Cohen's testimony isn't available or can't be used against Trump, whatever is in those documents can and will.

    If had better Establishment connections, he'd have better lawyers and he wouldn't be getting rolled up through My Cousin Vinny.

    As it pertains to us, we're at risk of losing support in the public opinion for Trump and the GOP. This is what kills us. We've got no margin to spare. The determination of the American people to assert our self-determination is weak enough as it is, without Trump weakening it further for unrelated reasons. A populist/conservative coalition is a winning hand in American politics right now. We can't afford to let Trump screw it up on his own crap.

    “…now in possession of Mueller or the US Attorney’s office to be referred to Mueller as the case may be.”

    Or leaked at the appropriate time. The Deep State has just illegally seized ALL of the President’s private communications with his lawyer. It’s a naked attempt to overthrow the legally elected government.

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    Or leaked at the appropriate time.
     
    Yeah, that's certainly a possibility.

    It’s a naked attempt to overthrow the legally elected government.
     
    Meh, maybe, maybe not. The important thing is, it's nothing we have a countermove for.
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  93. @Anonymous
    fair question for Steve, as a decade long reader:


    so when are you going to quit this shtick where you "slyly" reference the problem were "not allowed" to talk about.


    yes, we get it. but nobody is stopping you from violating the "taboo" so quit whining and do it

    I’m quite sure our host here will give your opinion the merit and consideration it truly deserves.

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  94. Anonymous[382] • Disclaimer says:

    Translation:

    “Like everyone else who has criticized and protested and defamed Murray, I had never read the book. Since Murray is back in the news, I buckled down last week and read it so I could do an epic takedown of its racism. But, dang, it wasn’t quite the book I thought it was, so I had to change tack and come up with a different line of attack.”

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  95. @Anonymous
    I had rather hoped that you would have had some more substantial comments on the Yglesias article. Perhaps in an upcoming Taki's column?

    Also, am I missing something or does Yglesias not actually address Murray and Herrnstein's claim that current social policy is effectively dysgenic?

    Personally, I think it would be good to have more intelligent, productive and law-abiding people in society, as opposed to more stupid, unproductive and law-breaking people, and since a big part of what determines that is who your biological parents are (as e.g. sperm donation seekers are well aware) it would be good for the government to put some thought into this.

    Remember Tavon White, head of the Baltimore prison system BGF, who appeared on iSteve a few years ago? He had something like 4 children with female prison guards alone, and he had at least one baby mama on the outside. Whereas Richard Feynman had 2 children and John von Neumann had 1. Funny how that works.

    Whereas Richard Feynman had 2 children and John von Neumann had 1.

    Feynman’s daughter was adopted.

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    • Replies: @gcochran
    Feynman might surprise us.
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  96. @J.Ross
    If there's one line that suggests this guy is talking into his propeller beanie and unlikely to have expected any editing when writing it, it's putting forth a "consensus of economist opinion." I would be scared to do so. When the Western establishment economists thought that people starving and freezing to death in recently de-Communized Eastern Europe sounded fair, there existed equally credentialled economists who interrupted that consensus. Economics is politics hiding behind math and you can get any economic judgment you want by identifying the ideology of the economist. If there's a worse line, it's connecting that consensus to Marx. I still remember the Nation special anniversary edition (I had a subscription in high school), where a number of leftist scholars put forth pronouncements on how Marx had aged. Most of them agreed that plenty of his ideas were wrong or needed serious updating, with one guy planting his feet in the idea that Marx was just as right and just as important. I'm guessing rightist and libertarian economists would have added to the objections, and gone further by disputing the idea, universally accepted by the special edition group, that Marx was significant and morally good regardless of his failures.
    With that being said it is entirely possible, and even likely, that Marx's works were full of reasonable observations. Marx wasn't an economist, after all, he was a nineteenth century social critic essayist like Zola or (later but the same shtick) Gorky. It is even possible that those reasonable observations do not bear out the arguments they are supposed to illustrate. But nobody needs to worry about things like that when you talk about "settled science" or "scholarly consensus."

    Economics is politics hiding behind math and you can get any economic judgment you want by identifying the ideology of the economist

    .

    Great quote.

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  97. @Thomm

    We don’t want immigrants who subscribe to a primitive form of Islam — which appears to be most of the immigrants who are from Muslim countries. Are these people genetically greatly different from us? I honestly don’t know. They may be not much different from us at all, in no small part because they are of the same race, Caucasian.
     
    Thanks for pointing this out. Genenetically, the Middle East is the next closest thing to Europe.

    But Islam is the single most incompatible ideology with our Western values.

    Ironically, the most fanatical Muslims are in the Middle East, while the (relatively) more relaxed ones are in much further away Malaysia and Indonesia.

    But Islam is the single most incompatible ideology with our Western values.

    Western values? You mean like promoting homosexuality? Turning marriage into a sad joke. Free access to pornography. Celebrity worship. The slaughter of inconvenient unborn children. Believing that people can magically change sex at will and that there are fifty-seven different genders. Trash culture. Or perhaps you’re referring to the worship of consumerism?

    If those are western values the sooner they’re destroyed the better.

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    • Replies: @Thomm
    Well, 'Western Values' of the second half of the 20th century.

    You are right that degeneracy has eroded that, and the culprit is female suffrage, rather than skilled immigration (which only became significant much later).

    There are plenty of Western guys who secretly hope that Islam, for all its horrors, puts feminism in its place.
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  98. @Diversity Heretic
    Several years ago Greg Hood noted that the debate over immigration policy is a disguised debate over race. The growing (and by now nearly overwhelming) evidence that there are stark differences in cognitive ability according to race, gives the immigration debate an especially edgy character.

    One measure of how cucked society actually is is how quickly so many add the qualifier that they are not against legal immigration, only illegal. It could not be more transparent that they really know it is about race and are afraid of being called “racists.”

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  99. @Dave Pinsen
    Open borders is a threat to conservative politics now, but it's a threat to liberal politics in the medium term in a democratic system. Aside from their shared preference for open borders, affirmative action/quotas, and a generous welfare state, Afghans and Somalis don't have much in common culturally with Democrats. Which is why the logical endgame for an open borders America is an autocracy, run by a liberal technocrat like Bloomberg.

    One ironic silver lining of an autocracy is there'd be no more incentive to import migrants for their votes (there'd still be an incentive to import cheap, compliant labor, but limiting it to just that would mean a big reduction in immigration overall).

    Which is why the logical endgame for an open borders America is an autocracy, run by a liberal technocrat like Bloomberg.

    Yes, eventually liberals will have to scrap the charade of democracy and replace it with an openly totalitarian system. Most liberals look forward to this as a positive development. Democracy scares them.

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    • Replies: @Charles Erwin Wilson II

    Yes, eventually liberals will have to scrap the charade of democracy and replace it with an openly totalitarian system. Most liberals look forward to this as a positive development. Democracy scares them.
     
    True. It is why they work so hard to get gun confiscation implemented.
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  100. @Sunbeam
    A theory.

    I'd say the problem with it is no one really believes the mainstream media any more. They are that ridiculous. Literally the morning talk shows start now by playing what Jimmy Kimmel or Steven Colbert did on their monologue last night.

    Better be a heck of a smoking gun. Do you really think anyone at all is going to get their knickers in a twist if Stormy Daniels was paid off?

    They'll bleat about it on the news, make jokes on the talk shows. The only people who will care or pay attention are the people that want to experience Trump hate enough to watch that Trevor Noah show.

    Tell you what though. I'd absolutely love it if a special counsel was named to investigate Mueller. And Comey. And...

    Use exactly the same tactics, and engage in a perpetual dirt digging operation.

    I’d say the problem with it is no one really believes the mainstream media any more.

    The problem is that most people do still really believe the mainstream media. The people who hang out on this site might not but we’re not exactly typical of the population as a whole.

    There’s now a proportion of the population that distrusts the mainstream media but it’s still a small proportion.

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  101. @Lot
    "So, at least as it pertains to immigration, the Overton Window is not our problem."

    In political races, sure. Republicans can and do win advocating solid restrictionist policies. In elite circles, definitely not. Here is an article comparing donations in 2012 to 2016 of employees of elite law firms and investment banks.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/06/opinion/trump-lawyers-elites.html

    In 2012 Romney received 42% of these donations. In 2016, Trump received less than 1%, only 40 donations out of 4812. While Romney's elite background and positions compared to Trump among these elites partly explains this, populism isn't -that- unpopular among elites, nor 100-1 less popular than Hillary-ism. The difference is that these people, who are working-age ambitious elites still running the rat race, are scared to make a public donation to Trump.

    This is why Trump's boorish behavior is so concerning. It got him votes and let him beat Jeb and Rubio amd Hillary, but it helped make him and immigrantion restriction even more toxic in elite circles, which explains why now that he is in office he has been so ineffective at doing much more than cutting the taxes of the rich and appointing judges who are largely former corporate lawyers or Koch-network functionaries.

    I don't mean to blame Trump completely, but he made a pre-existing trend worse for sure.

    Oh no, if we can’t use the proper fork, we will not get patronage from our imperious masters, and we will start to undo the central political crime of our lifetimes. Release the hounds!

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  102. I suspect that no thinking person listens to what Yglesies has to say.

    In any event: They Have To Go Back!

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  103. @syonredux

    Individual schoolteachers vary in quality (like practitioners of other professions), with students taught by average teachers earning significantly more as adults than those taught by teachers in the bottom 5 percent of the distribution.
     
    Any guesses as to the racial distribution of those bottom five percent teachers, Matt.....

    Then there's the question of the kind of students who end up in classes taught by the bottom five percent....

    Though the United States is generally quite a bit richer than Western Europe, the material living standards of American children are generally worse, with about 11.8 percent of US children living in absolute poverty (as indicated by the US poverty line), compared to only 6.2 percent of German or 3.6 percent of Swedish children.
     
    Of course, the USA differs from Germany and Sweden in other ways.....

    This relates in important ways to intelligence. A growing body of academic research — which includes DNA testing to control for potential genetic factors — indicates that the stress of growing up in poverty does concrete neurological damage to children’s brains over and above the issues with exposure to toxic chemicals. Murrayism traps poor children in a cycle where they have worse opportunities for intellectual development and then that underdevelopment is used as evidence that little can or should be done to improve their economic status.
     
    Huh. And since huge numbers of the immigrants immigrating to the USA come from impoverished backgrounds, does this mean that they are neurologically damaged?

    Indeed, cross-sectional evidence marshaled by Alberto Alesina and Ed Glaeser for their 2004 book, Fighting Poverty in the US and Europe: A World of Difference (you can read their main findings here) concludes that racial animosity is the main explanation for America’s relative stinginess to poor families while experimental evidence shows that increasing the salience of racial conflict promotes reactionary politics and specifically confirms that associating means-tested social assistance with black people leads many whites to become more skeptical.

     

    Which would seem to indicate that diversity is bad for social welfare......which might be why those European countries that you praise are so generous.....

    African Americans and Latinos are disproportionately poor in the United States, but most recipients of social assistance are, in fact, white. Despite the complaint that critics are throwing around charges of racism to silence Murray, the reality is that promoting a heavily racialized view of the overall question of whether we should try to help poor families or punish them serves as a useful marketing gimmick for both books and legislation.

     

    Too late, Matty. The SJW-Left is all about race.....

    Murray does have a side agenda that is race-specific, however. Near the very end of The Bell Curve, he writes, somewhat euphemistically, “that group differences in cognitive ability, so desperately denied for so long, can best be handled — can only be handled — by a return to individualism” rather than with policies that seek to specifically address or remedy racism or racial disadvantage.

     

    See, race keeps creeping back in.....

    While black women earn less than white women, that earnings gap essentially vanishes when you account for the fact that white women on average have richer parents than black women. But the earnings gap between black men and white men persists even with this control.

    There is no plausible genetic explanation for this. Instead, it seems that black men suffer from a race-specific disadvantage that impairs their earnings. This, in turn, reduces the material living conditions of black girls, which impairs their earnings too. The exact mechanism at work is unclear, though the gender specificity suggests that perhaps the criminal justice system is playing a key role.

     

    Check the stats, Matt. Black men are the most violent and crime prone group in the USA....

    It seems almost ridiculous to need to argue this, but racial discrimination is a quite real and salient feature of American society. Employers, for example, discriminate against job applications that feature stereotypically “black” names, and so do public officials when deciding what correspondence to answer.
     
    A person's name tells you quite a bit about him, Matt.....All factors being equal, I would hire a Black woman named Elizabeth over one named Taniqua.....


    https://www.vox.com/2018/4/10/17182692/bell-curve-charles-murray-policy-wrong

    Slightly OT, if AAs think that they are discriminated against because of race, why name their children names that one associates with their race?

    Or do they suppose that they benefit more from quotas and want to alert Human Resource folks of the opportunity to fill a quota?

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  104. @eric
    "By the same token, Karl Marx’s work is full of observations that are well within the consensus of the economics profession..."

    His whole framework is built on the labor theory of value, which economists rejected right around the time Das Kapital was published. He also argued that profits would fall to zero, which no economist believes. Without these mechanisms, the whole business about revolution and surplus value goes away.

    Agree.

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  105. @Thomm

    We don’t want immigrants who subscribe to a primitive form of Islam — which appears to be most of the immigrants who are from Muslim countries. Are these people genetically greatly different from us? I honestly don’t know. They may be not much different from us at all, in no small part because they are of the same race, Caucasian.
     
    Thanks for pointing this out. Genenetically, the Middle East is the next closest thing to Europe.

    But Islam is the single most incompatible ideology with our Western values.

    Ironically, the most fanatical Muslims are in the Middle East, while the (relatively) more relaxed ones are in much further away Malaysia and Indonesia.

    Even if people from Middle East have similarities with white Europeans, this doesn’t mean thay they are the same. They don’t have the same genetic potential of the Europeans. You can simply compare their societies in their countries, or how they behave in multi-cultural countries.

    For example, in Brazil there are many people with Lebanese origins. There are more ethnic Lebanese in Brazil than in Lebanon. And they are almost all Cristians, not Muslins. But the majority of Lebanese politicians in Brazil are corrupt, including the current president Michel Temer. There are a incredible number of white-collar criminals with Lebanese descent. By comparision, there are more Germans in Brazil than Lebanese, but you don’t see by far, the same number of criminals.

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    • Replies: @Dave Pinsen

    By comparision, there are more Germans in Brazil than Lebanese, but you don’t see by far, the same number of criminals.
     
    One of the companies most deeply implicated in the big "car wash" scandal in Brazil and throughout Latin America was founded by, is named after, and is currently chaired by a German Brazilian: Odebrecht.
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  106. @Tiny Duck
    Murray's not a scientist, he doesn't have any findings. He’s a racist clown using pseudoscience to sound persuasive. I only took two years of statistics/econometrics and it was patently obvious to me that the “evidence” he presents in “The Bell Curve” is either full of holes or a priori complete BS.He interpreted difference in IQ between groups. The argument is over the interpretation, and many scientists disagree with his. Have you guys been following this debate closely? The bell curve is premised upon the notion that there can be an objective measure of "intelligence" measured by the subjective and often discriminatory IQ tests drawn up by mostly middle aged white men. And there is nothing in it that Adolf Hitler would not fully endorse. Think about that

    In Dark Money Jane Mayer mentions Murray as just one of many scholars who received significant help because of his political usefulness rather than his... merit. He is not a lonely ostracized academic in search of an audience.


    Sorry guys. The majority are against you. The culture and art is against you

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hzMzFGgmQOc

    Published research cannot be a priori. That would be a contradiction in terms. Murray’s results have the same predictive power they had 25 years ago.

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  107. @Canadian
    While there may be some upside to not being burdened with low IQ immigrants to the same degree. Canada's large scale immigration is effecting a massive cultural transformation. Whether related at all I cannot say but there is a distinct lack of professional work in Canada (my suspicion is that the higher IQ immigrants end up in the professional services market). Finally we have become a place for wealthy foreigners to dump their money. This means that housing is totally un-affordable. While we don't suffer from rust belt syndrome too much (see Hamilton) the standard of living has dropped considerably for wage slaves because of the hike in housing costs. I can't blame the immigrants for the stifling culture of political correctness but Canada is truly an insufferable place to live. There is a near lockout for whites looking to work in government (of course this is probably true in the US as well). Goods and services are about 20% more expensive and our tax brackets kick in at much lower levels. The roads are a little better. I've lived in both countries quite frankly each is clearly quite a bit worse than than they were in the early 70s.

    I’ve lived in both countries quite frankly each is clearly quite a bit worse than than they were in the early 70s.

    I cannot write about Canada, but here that is certainly, though needlessly, true.

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  108. @al-Gharaniq

    For the life of me, I never understood why The Bell Curve was considered such a big deal.
     
    Because it's hard to read through the book in its entirety (including the appendices and endnotes!), yet easy to cherry pick quotes from it that sound scandalous absent their (voluminous) context.

    I wouldn't be surprised that had Herrnstein and Murray chose to use footnotes over endnotes, there would be a surprising reduction in its controversy. Footnotes would immediately contextualize their claims with supporting citations; endnotes annoyingly force the reader to flip pages and potentially lose the context.

    It’s the title. It is a pithy attack on egalitarianism (2 syllables – not counting “the”, common words) which is easy for people who haven’t read the book to understand. It’s memorable too because it paints a picture.

    Contrast it to”The Blank Slate” which is rather vague-sounding and might be for or against egalitarianism, if you haven’t read it.

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  109. @Thomm
    Ironically, the Bell Curve, or rather, skill-level, should indeed be the primary principle of any immigration policy. Canada, thus, has a much better immigration policy than the US.

    Skilled immigrants (with a special exclusion for Arab Muslims) : Yes.
    Unskilled immigrants/family reuinification beyond spouse and minor children : No.
    Illegals : HELL No.

    It is surprising how few agree with this from either side. WNs say it is too generous, and SJWs say it is too strict. Both WNs and SJWs are left-wing and anti-merit, but it is telling how concave the distribution of views on immigration is (and how ignorant most bloviators are).

    Ironically, the Bell Curve, or rather, skill-level, should indeed be the primary principle of any immigration policy.

    Ahem. You left out one equally important factor: Looks. (#26)

    Allow myself to repeat… myself:

    Ann Coulter (sort of jokingly, but not really IMO) said this regarding how she would choose new citizens:

    “I will do it on looks, IQ, height — oh, and speaking English.”

    I’m thinking that in the looks department, Ann would choose people that looked like America. 1950’s New England America. Or “Canadian Border” America.

    One may quibble if Ann herself is a paragon of beauty, or say that fat white People of Walmart are the ugliest of all, but if one greatly appreciates the white (aka European) phenotype at its best, then mass non-white immigration to white lands, and its potential for subsuming the white phenotype in a mystery meat brownish morass, is a disaster for humanity for that reason alone.

    You wrote:

    Both WNs and SJWs are left-wing and anti-merit, but it is telling how concave the distribution of views on immigration is

    Ah yes, “horseshit theory.” Unlike SJWs, WNs frankly recognize the superior natural merit of white racial aesthetics in general. That’s hierarchically right wing and is as important to HBD as IQ and temperament/character.

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    • Replies: @Thomm

    WNs frankly recognize the superior natural merit of white racial aesthetics in general.
     
    Yes, if you count the top 80% of whites, and exclude the bottom 20%, which is a defective subrace where the genetic waste matter collects.

    Remember, white variance is very high. The bottom quintile is inferior to the top four quintiles by a greater degree than is found in any other race.

    About this bottom 20% that comprises waste matter :

    The men become WNs.
    The women become fat bluehaired feminists.

    So when you see an attractive white person (i.e. my race), remember that you have no more in common with them than a mangy feral dog has with a Kodiak Bear.

    I still wonder if you WN losers will ever figure out why you can't vocalize WN views even in a bar in Idaho or Montana that is 100% white. We want to keep the waste matter out.
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  110. @Dave Pinsen
    Skilled immigration from poor countries probably makes us and the poor countries worse off. A Cameroonian immigrant in a U.S. medical school probably took a spot from a more talented American applicant, and if he stays here, Cameroon has lost one of its most talented citizens.

    A Cameroonian immigrant in a U.S. medical school probably took a spot from a more talented American applicant, and if he stays here, Cameroon has lost one of its most talented citizens.

    It is true. Someone here called it ‘strip-mining intellectual talent from third-world countries’ and it is.

    I don’t want an affirmative action doctor, or nurse, or medical technician, or any other medical worker – even janitors can leave behind something deadly for you to become infected with.

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  111. @TheMediumIsTheMassage
    You're thinking about it like a man. It's not supposed to make logical sense, because modern day leftist dogma is a female-oriented construct. It's feels over reals. The women and estrogenized men who feed the belief system are guided by a mindless hatred towards the groups that, in the division of society into oppressed and oppressors that they have imagined, are on the oppressor side (aka the "white cishetero patriarchy", and you could add "Christian" and "attractive" for good measure), and anything that hurts them is good, and anything that benefits those on the other side is good. There's no consideration for how this affects their values long-term. Islam falls under "Brown, non-Christian, foreign, poor, stupid, ugly" (no offence, but most Muslims are not attractive) and so they don't even care to think how compatible it is with typical white upper middle class Democrat values.

    Also, more importantly when it comes to Islam, SJW women are not actually repelled by it. Sure, they may feign outrage when reports of ISIS throwing gay men off roofs appear, but Islam mostly intrigues and slightly excites them. There's a reason why the homophobic jock bully in high school always got the girl (who then went to college and became BFFs with a few gay guys, but broke of all contact once she got married and had kids). The burka is a cute fashion accessory (and, for fatties, means a chance to hide the double chin and rolls). The devotion, piousness and deference to men activate the side of their brain that Christianity vacated in their own culture. The barbaric jihadis and raping refugees are backwards societal drains, but they do not subscribe to the norms of politeness and acceptability that their own men do. That excites a lot of women. Perhaps a lot of them would find they do not enjoy Islam in practice, but then again, there are an infinity of Muslim women who really do like their way of life. But they have far more disgust and contempt towards submissive men from their own race and social class.

    Whiskey, we know it is you.

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    Whiskey's right, though he's rendering in 8 bit.
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  112. @Lot
    "So, at least as it pertains to immigration, the Overton Window is not our problem."

    In political races, sure. Republicans can and do win advocating solid restrictionist policies. In elite circles, definitely not. Here is an article comparing donations in 2012 to 2016 of employees of elite law firms and investment banks.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/06/opinion/trump-lawyers-elites.html

    In 2012 Romney received 42% of these donations. In 2016, Trump received less than 1%, only 40 donations out of 4812. While Romney's elite background and positions compared to Trump among these elites partly explains this, populism isn't -that- unpopular among elites, nor 100-1 less popular than Hillary-ism. The difference is that these people, who are working-age ambitious elites still running the rat race, are scared to make a public donation to Trump.

    This is why Trump's boorish behavior is so concerning. It got him votes and let him beat Jeb and Rubio amd Hillary, but it helped make him and immigrantion restriction even more toxic in elite circles, which explains why now that he is in office he has been so ineffective at doing much more than cutting the taxes of the rich and appointing judges who are largely former corporate lawyers or Koch-network functionaries.

    I don't mean to blame Trump completely, but he made a pre-existing trend worse for sure.

    I don’t mean to blame Trump completely, but he made a pre-existing trend worse for sure.

    The alternatives were dramatically inferior to Trump. Except maybe Santorum – I heard him advocating for no illegal immigration, and dramatic reductions in legal immigration. He was close to what I would like to see, which is an immigration moratorium.

    But Santorum had zero traction. Trump was the only choice. Yes, he is a bastard and a son-of-a-bitch, but he is our bastard and son-of-a-bitch. We have Trump or we have no one.

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    • Replies: @Unladen Swallow
    Santorum was no such thing, within hours of the 2012 election he was blaming Romney's defeat on lack of pandering to Hispanic voters. This view predominated in GOP circles until Trump announced his campaign and then started winning primaries. Santorum continually blasted Ron Paul as well who opposed birthright citizenship in 2012. He was simoly being an opportunist.
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  113. @MEH 0910

    Whereas Richard Feynman had 2 children and John von Neumann had 1.
     
    Feynman's daughter was adopted.

    Feynman might surprise us.

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    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Much like Wm. Jeff'n Clinton, one would think if he had any issue on the side as well he'd have quite a few. So he might have been shooting blanks or gallery loads.
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  114. @dfordoom

    Which is why the logical endgame for an open borders America is an autocracy, run by a liberal technocrat like Bloomberg.
     
    Yes, eventually liberals will have to scrap the charade of democracy and replace it with an openly totalitarian system. Most liberals look forward to this as a positive development. Democracy scares them.

    Yes, eventually liberals will have to scrap the charade of democracy and replace it with an openly totalitarian system. Most liberals look forward to this as a positive development. Democracy scares them.

    True. It is why they work so hard to get gun confiscation implemented.

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    • Replies: @dfordoom

    True. It is why they work so hard to get gun confiscation implemented.
     
    This is why American democracy is doomed. American right-wingers can't think of anything but their beloved guns. Guns are the answer to everything, even though strangely enough guns have not been able to prevent all your freedoms from being taken away from you one by one, and have not been able to prevent your political system from becoming the most corrupted on the planet, and have not slowed down your transformation into a totalitarianism. But guns are powerful magic ju-ju!
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  115. @Ron Unz

    It must make Steve feel like quite an old man to read Matt Yglesias, whose work he’s been writing about intermittently since 2004 or so, still being described as “young”!
     
    Well, I started following Yglesias when he launched his blog soon after graduating college or something like that, so I guess I'll always think of him as someone just out of college...

    I hate to say it, but he never seemed to really make the transition from being a provocative blogger to being a serious journalist or intellectual. Some of his blog posts were really pretty witty, but I can't think of one article he's ever written since then that made much of an impression on me.

    Scratch that. After he was randomly attacked by a couple of blacks in DC playing "knockout game" he suggested that the true underlying cause of urban violence was housing density regulations or that sort of thing. Ha, ha, ha...

    but he never seemed to really make the transition from being a provocative blogger to being a serious journalist or intellectual.

    It’s not like there are any serious intellectuals working in the anglo media, and very few even serious journalists (it’s more like a profession of political activists, who – at the best – will also be witty or have a good vocabulary range).

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  116. @Marcus D.
    Even if people from Middle East have similarities with white Europeans, this doesn't mean thay they are the same. They don't have the same genetic potential of the Europeans. You can simply compare their societies in their countries, or how they behave in multi-cultural countries.

    For example, in Brazil there are many people with Lebanese origins. There are more ethnic Lebanese in Brazil than in Lebanon. And they are almost all Cristians, not Muslins. But the majority of Lebanese politicians in Brazil are corrupt, including the current president Michel Temer. There are a incredible number of white-collar criminals with Lebanese descent. By comparision, there are more Germans in Brazil than Lebanese, but you don't see by far, the same number of criminals.

    By comparision, there are more Germans in Brazil than Lebanese, but you don’t see by far, the same number of criminals.

    One of the companies most deeply implicated in the big “car wash” scandal in Brazil and throughout Latin America was founded by, is named after, and is currently chaired by a German Brazilian: Odebrecht.

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    • Replies: @Marcus D.
    Yes, this the CEO of the company at the time of the scandals:

    https://ogimg.infoglobo.com.br/in/18825628-3b3-4e6/FT1086A/420/marcelo-2.jpg

    His name is Marcelo Odebrecht. Does he look german to you ?

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  117. @Ron Unz

    No. Herrnstein’s Atlantic article did not deal with race per se, and The Bell Curve had the massive (for the time) NLSY dataset. It was and remains a big deal.
     
    I'll admit I was just a child during the gigantic Jensen/Herrnstein/Shockley media flap, and have never read the articles of the former two.

    But wasn't Jensen's huge article primarily about race, and didn't the MSM rather naturally connect it with Herrnstein's subsequent popular discussion of IQ issues?

    Unless I'm mistaken, only a small slice of The Bell Curve focused on race, yet that became 95% of what people heard about from the media coverage. Similarly, it's very possible that Herrnstein's article "did not deal with race per se" but given the political upheavals of the late 1960s and Jensen's very high-profile earlier work, isn't that what everyone understood it to be about?

    Chapter 13 was the only place where IQ & Race were discussed. As I recall the rest of the book was very focused on IQ and its contributions and limitations on society, and only talked in terms of the general population (or perhaps only the white population) to avoid conflating the two topics.

    Basically, they only showed that blacks were pretty average in capabilities, compared to whites with the same IQs.

    I don’t think Chapter 13 was chosen for the topic randomly. And of course, Chapter 13 was the only chapter really discussed in the “public square”.

    A friend who wouldn’t enjoy this blog read a shallow rebuttal in a forgettable magazine and concluded that the entire book was discredited, but could never actually get around to even skimming the book.

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  118. @Berty
    I once admired Donald Trump and Jeff Sessions. It amazing how thoroughly both have disappointed me in such a short amount of time.

    I once admired Donald Trump and Jeff Sessions. It amazing how thoroughly both have disappointed me in such a short amount of time.

    I think Sessions has been getting a bad rap from Trump for the most part, but I don’t he’s exactly covered himself in glory with this Cohen business. From everything we’ve heard this is about Stormy Daniels so I don’t see any reason why Sessions should be recused.

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  119. @Ozymandias
    "...now in possession of Mueller or the US Attorney’s office to be referred to Mueller as the case may be."

    Or leaked at the appropriate time. The Deep State has just illegally seized ALL of the President's private communications with his lawyer. It's a naked attempt to overthrow the legally elected government.

    Or leaked at the appropriate time.

    Yeah, that’s certainly a possibility.

    It’s a naked attempt to overthrow the legally elected government.

    Meh, maybe, maybe not. The important thing is, it’s nothing we have a countermove for.

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  120. @Dave Pinsen

    By comparision, there are more Germans in Brazil than Lebanese, but you don’t see by far, the same number of criminals.
     
    One of the companies most deeply implicated in the big "car wash" scandal in Brazil and throughout Latin America was founded by, is named after, and is currently chaired by a German Brazilian: Odebrecht.

    Yes, this the CEO of the company at the time of the scandals:

    His name is Marcelo Odebrecht. Does he look german to you ?

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    • Replies: @Anonymous
    You'll see Bavarians that look very much like that.
    , @Dave Pinsen
    He's not as pale as the former president of Peru he bribed, but he is the descendant of German immigrants, and the complexion of those snagged by the scandal seems to broadly mirror that of the region's elite.

    https://www.hotrecentnews.com/img/president-peru-kuczynski-resigns-36078.jpg
    , @Red Little Smurf
    Joachim Lov, Prince Karl von Shwartzenberg... for start. There are swarthy Germans out there.
    , @Frank the Prof
    Maybe he doesn't look German but this guy does:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Martin_Winterkorn_2015-03-13_001.jpg

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_emissions_scandal

    Or maybe we should take a trip to 1920-45 Germany for more pictures.
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  121. @Jenner Ickham Errican

    Ironically, the Bell Curve, or rather, skill-level, should indeed be the primary principle of any immigration policy.
     
    Ahem. You left out one equally important factor: Looks. (#26)

    Allow myself to repeat… myself:

    Ann Coulter (sort of jokingly, but not really IMO) said this regarding how she would choose new citizens:

    “I will do it on looks, IQ, height — oh, and speaking English.”

    I’m thinking that in the looks department, Ann would choose people that looked like America. 1950’s New England America. Or “Canadian Border” America.

    One may quibble if Ann herself is a paragon of beauty, or say that fat white People of Walmart are the ugliest of all, but if one greatly appreciates the white (aka European) phenotype at its best, then mass non-white immigration to white lands, and its potential for subsuming the white phenotype in a mystery meat brownish morass, is a disaster for humanity for that reason alone.
     
    You wrote:

    Both WNs and SJWs are left-wing and anti-merit, but it is telling how concave the distribution of views on immigration is
     
    Ah yes, “horseshit theory.” Unlike SJWs, WNs frankly recognize the superior natural merit of white racial aesthetics in general. That’s hierarchically right wing and is as important to HBD as IQ and temperament/character.

    WNs frankly recognize the superior natural merit of white racial aesthetics in general.

    Yes, if you count the top 80% of whites, and exclude the bottom 20%, which is a defective subrace where the genetic waste matter collects.

    Remember, white variance is very high. The bottom quintile is inferior to the top four quintiles by a greater degree than is found in any other race.

    About this bottom 20% that comprises waste matter :

    The men become WNs.
    The women become fat bluehaired feminists.

    So when you see an attractive white person (i.e. my race), remember that you have no more in common with them than a mangy feral dog has with a Kodiak Bear.

    I still wonder if you WN losers will ever figure out why you can’t vocalize WN views even in a bar in Idaho or Montana that is 100% white. We want to keep the waste matter out.

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    • Replies: @TTSSYF
    A bar in Idaho, Montana, or any other place that is 100% white doesn't know what the WN knows, because they aren't exposed to it. They have the luxury of being open-minded to blank-slate theory.
    , @Jenner Ickham Errican

    white person (i.e. my race)
     
    Now Thomm, you’re no more convincing than those of another tribe claiming to be “fellow whites.” Nonetheless, I’m sure you’ve got plenty of sordid tales of meeting bears in Montana bars. :)
    , @L Woods
    You can’t vocalize your views in polite company either though
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  122. @Lot
    "So, at least as it pertains to immigration, the Overton Window is not our problem."

    In political races, sure. Republicans can and do win advocating solid restrictionist policies. In elite circles, definitely not. Here is an article comparing donations in 2012 to 2016 of employees of elite law firms and investment banks.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/06/opinion/trump-lawyers-elites.html

    In 2012 Romney received 42% of these donations. In 2016, Trump received less than 1%, only 40 donations out of 4812. While Romney's elite background and positions compared to Trump among these elites partly explains this, populism isn't -that- unpopular among elites, nor 100-1 less popular than Hillary-ism. The difference is that these people, who are working-age ambitious elites still running the rat race, are scared to make a public donation to Trump.

    This is why Trump's boorish behavior is so concerning. It got him votes and let him beat Jeb and Rubio amd Hillary, but it helped make him and immigrantion restriction even more toxic in elite circles, which explains why now that he is in office he has been so ineffective at doing much more than cutting the taxes of the rich and appointing judges who are largely former corporate lawyers or Koch-network functionaries.

    I don't mean to blame Trump completely, but he made a pre-existing trend worse for sure.

    This is why Trump’s boorish behavior is so concerning. It got him votes and let him beat Jeb and Rubio amd Hillary, but it helped make him and immigrantion restriction even more toxic in elite circles, which explains why now that he is in office he has been so ineffective at doing much more than cutting the taxes of the rich and appointing judges who are largely former corporate lawyers or Koch-network functionaries.

    Yeah, this is exactly right. It understates the case even. Trump’s persona turns off elites and non-elites both. Or as I like to put, the Overton Window is better for us because of Trump, but our position within the Window is worse.

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    • Replies: @Disordered
    Does Trump really turn off non-elites? I'd argue that, while the persona isn't a saint, polls seem to still give him some support, even under the terrible circus news cycle. The Lewinsky affair did much to make Americans jaded about the necessity of good morals in a politician. If non-elites are turned off, it is more because the elites are sabotaging the agenda (when Trump doesn't do it himself, which happens less but does); thus the ugly side of the persona that was conveniently forgotten pops in again in the popular mind.

    At any rate... do we have a choice, but support Trump AND try to keep him along the right path? Not many others will, specially not those near him. He wasn't even a politician less than 3 years ago, so on one hand he has the popular upper hand, on the other he's had to barely learn to deal with government bureaucrats that hate him anyway. Though I understand your point, the ideology needs better expositors, else risk being viewed as Trumpism forever - not even due to whatever mistakes he makes, but because even if he is successful, that ideology must survive him. But, there's time and people constraints on this effort - not enough of either. Thus we must continue to toil in these ideals as best as we can, with whatever people we have on our side...
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  123. Anonymous[427] • Disclaimer says:
    @gcochran
    Feynman might surprise us.

    Much like Wm. Jeff’n Clinton, one would think if he had any issue on the side as well he’d have quite a few. So he might have been shooting blanks or gallery loads.

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  124. Anonymous[427] • Disclaimer says:
    @Marcus D.
    Yes, this the CEO of the company at the time of the scandals:

    https://ogimg.infoglobo.com.br/in/18825628-3b3-4e6/FT1086A/420/marcelo-2.jpg

    His name is Marcelo Odebrecht. Does he look german to you ?

    You’ll see Bavarians that look very much like that.

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  125. @Citizen of a Silly Country
    OT:

    And then they came for The Simpsons - though to the show's credit, they basically tell the SJWs to go to hell.

    It's fun to watch the old guard liberals get taken down by their own children. That said, I was a big fan of the Simpsons in the early 90s.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/apr/10/simpsons-apu-stereotype-racism-south-asian-fans

    The Simpsons was a satire and attack on American values; it is a sad testament to how far the country has degenerated that the original episodes now appear to be support for American values because of how far left everything has shifted.

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  126. @Charles Erwin Wilson II

    I don’t mean to blame Trump completely, but he made a pre-existing trend worse for sure.
     
    The alternatives were dramatically inferior to Trump. Except maybe Santorum - I heard him advocating for no illegal immigration, and dramatic reductions in legal immigration. He was close to what I would like to see, which is an immigration moratorium.

    But Santorum had zero traction. Trump was the only choice. Yes, he is a bastard and a son-of-a-bitch, but he is our bastard and son-of-a-bitch. We have Trump or we have no one.

    Santorum was no such thing, within hours of the 2012 election he was blaming Romney’s defeat on lack of pandering to Hispanic voters. This view predominated in GOP circles until Trump announced his campaign and then started winning primaries. Santorum continually blasted Ron Paul as well who opposed birthright citizenship in 2012. He was simoly being an opportunist.

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  127. @Sunbeam
    "It’s not localized to Stormy Daniels either. If it were, I don’t think it would be nearly as important. It’s at least as likely that Bob Mueller has a paper trail of every real estate scam, every fraudulent loan application, and every shady business Trump has owned a part of in three decades as a New York businessman. I’m not even counting anything related to Russia, yet."

    My take on it is can you get enough Democrats + Republicans in the Senate to vote for impeachment.

    " A simple majority of the House is required to impeach the president. However, after impeachment the president remains in office until trial by the Senate.
    In the Senate, the House Judiciary Committee acts as the prosecution, the Senate as the jury and the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court as the judge who rules on the admissibility of the evidence presented. The accused president can hire his/her own lawyers. A two-thirds majority of the Senate is required to vote against the accused and remove the president from office."

    Got 67 votes to do so?

    The histrionics of the whole thing would be through the roof. God I bet some of those guys are absolutely giddy at the notion. Never before would such a grandstanding stage be given to so many self-important utter hacks in world history.

    Meanwhile nothing will be able to be accomplished by the Executive Branch. Well if anyone is capable of utterly ignoring the whole thing Trump is, which would work.

    But I absolutely guarantee you prosecuting one of these military actions like Iran, Iraq, or even what we have going in Syria would be utterly impossible.

    Congress you know, just not ever willing to go on record with an identifiable vote count for actually declaring war instead of just letting the Prez do whatever he wants or is amiable enough to do.

    My take on it is can you get enough Democrats + Republicans in the Senate to vote for impeachment[?]

    My take on this is we’re fcuked on this long before impeachment is close to materializing, like somehow the American people have an obligation to wait until Trump is actually impeached before they take it out on anything associated with Trump, ie us, and restrictionist immigration policy.

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  128. @Ron Unz
    For the life of me, I never understood why The Bell Curve was considered such a big deal. When it came out, I remember saying to myself "Hmm...I see Herrnstein's now decided to republish his big Atlantic article of twenty-odd years earlier in book form, and picked up Charles Murray as a coauthor." I remember being utterly shocked when Murray claimed the issues were entirely new to him, given the gigantic flap The Atlantic piece had originally generated, along with the earlier article in Harvard Educational Review by Jensen.

    If young Yglesias weren't so totally ignorant, he would have cited Peter Brimelow's Alien Nation book of that same year as the plausible underlying inspiration for Trump's immigration policies.

    But the really important and innovative book that came out around that same time was Phil Rushton's Race, Evolution & Behavior, for which he surely deserved a Nobel Prize...

    (And the Comment Archives will be back online shortly once I've finished adding some additional defenses against the massive bot-wave we experienced very early yesterday morning.)

    I agree with this assessment. Charles Murray has been given far too much credit as an original thinker who had the courage to challenge the conventional narrative.

    Jensen was was the real person of courage and he paid a high price for his courage and scholarship.

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  129. Anonymous[400] • Disclaimer says:

    Charles Murray is an incredibly successful — and pernicious — policy entrepreneur.

    Is this actually true? I can’t think of any policies advocated by Murray that have been successfully implemented or promoted by policy makers. He wrote a book a few years ago advocating that the welfare state be replaced with a citizen’s dividend paid out to every citizen yearly like a basic income, which seems very unlikely to happen.

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    • Replies: @J.Ross
    It's eminently falsifiable, but then so is the thesis. In fact there is a recent, popular-audience, widely known, anti-immigration book that was often seen as the basis of the Trump immigration stance. It's Adios, America, by Ann Couter. People talked about Trump being influenced by that all the time. Nobody sees the Bell Curve as even connected, as well they shouldn't. What Yglesias is really doing is making a case for censorship of hate speech on the grounds that "tolerating" Murray eventually leads to the most hated candidate in political memory mysteriously losing an election and the establishment's pet policies coming under threat.
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  130. @BB753
    This is about Syria. Neocons want Assad dead. No matter what. And they won't let Trump stand in their way of invading the world, now that's he's partially ruined their other pet cause: inviting the world.
    If I were Trump I'd go medieval on tbeir asses with executive orders and whatever support he still has in the military. Trump has been facing a coup ever since he got to the White House. It's time for him to stage a counter-coup.

    If I were Trump I’d go medieval on tbeir asses with executive orders and whatever support he still has in the military. Trump has been facing a coup ever since he got to the White House. It’s time for him to stage a counter-coup.

    Yeah, right.

    I swear you might as well be neocons. I doubt if there’s a Member of the Tribe who pushes eternal war for Israel as much as much as some of you push eternal war for Trump.

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  131. @Marcus D.
    Yes, this the CEO of the company at the time of the scandals:

    https://ogimg.infoglobo.com.br/in/18825628-3b3-4e6/FT1086A/420/marcelo-2.jpg

    His name is Marcelo Odebrecht. Does he look german to you ?

    He’s not as pale as the former president of Peru he bribed, but he is the descendant of German immigrants, and the complexion of those snagged by the scandal seems to broadly mirror that of the region’s elite.

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    • Replies: @Marcus D.
    Marcelo is only 25% German, only his grandfather was German. But this is not even the point of the discussion. He could be a pure German and this doesn't weaken the point of my post. We find exceptions to everything when we discuss biological and social phenomena. We are discussing averages, and average crime provoked by Lebanese in Brazil, is far greater than that produced by Germans.

    The political elites of Latin America is largely white. But this has nothing to do with white inclination for dishonesty. This is because democracy in the region is in the hands of a lot of mestizos, mulattos, blacks and Indians unable to choose better politicians. So, the political system selects only the demagogues, who take advantage of this stupid population. Honest and realistic politicians have little chance to succed in the region. The proportion of politicians, or people who take advantage of the system for their own benefit is much higher among Lebanese than among the general population.

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  132. @Anonymous

    Charles Murray is an incredibly successful — and pernicious — policy entrepreneur.
     
    Is this actually true? I can't think of any policies advocated by Murray that have been successfully implemented or promoted by policy makers. He wrote a book a few years ago advocating that the welfare state be replaced with a citizen's dividend paid out to every citizen yearly like a basic income, which seems very unlikely to happen.

    It’s eminently falsifiable, but then so is the thesis. In fact there is a recent, popular-audience, widely known, anti-immigration book that was often seen as the basis of the Trump immigration stance. It’s Adios, America, by Ann Couter. People talked about Trump being influenced by that all the time. Nobody sees the Bell Curve as even connected, as well they shouldn’t. What Yglesias is really doing is making a case for censorship of hate speech on the grounds that “tolerating” Murray eventually leads to the most hated candidate in political memory mysteriously losing an election and the establishment’s pet policies coming under threat.

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  133. @Citizen of a Silly Country
    Btw, I tried to listen to the Sam Harris/Ezra Klein podcast. Made it for about 30-45 minutes and stopped. Both guys really like to hear themselves talk. (Klein has a very punchable voice.) Regardless, it was mostly Harris saying that Klein needs to address the science and data and Klein saying you can't look at the science and data without considering history and feelings.

    If anyone around here thinks that the science will change minds, you've got another thing coming.

    A friend recommended Sam Harris to me before the recent Klein tussle. First thought was this is a guy who thinks he is a lot smarter than he actually is. Later realization was that this is one of the few podcasts that is better at 1.5x speed. Sam talks really slow.

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  134. Feynman is exhibit A on why high IQ for males is a turn off … in peace time. What do women want (in having a man get them pregnant lets say?) Its Tavon White not Richard Feynman. Women want (this is empirical evidence) the spawn of killers. Its simple primate dominance 101 and the tragedy of modern life is that wealth and security is built on really eliminating raw Male dominance as much as possible because a nation of Trayvon Martins creates at best Lagos and at worst General Butt Naked. Nigeria sort of works with Western aid and lots of oil revenues, places like Ivory Coast and Liberia fall into Lord of the Flies. But hey women find that sexy. [Nikolas de Jesus Cruz now has thousands of teen girls sending him love letters.]

    Trump? He’s been an unmitigated disaster and it would have been better if the she-beast Hillary! had won. Trump has only made elites and every pussy-hat wearing woman (which is most of them) and non-Whites furiously angry while doing nothing to push ordinary White men into power. Or even improving their station and status in life. AFTER Trump we have been deluged with articles openly calling for elimination of White men and I am predicting some media outlet will run an article calling for active violent genocide against White men. Don’t kid yourself White women will be all over that like teen girls over a school shooter killer.

    Mueller is likely going to put every nasty thing he can find in Cohen’s private files into the media through friendly leaks, the Blue Wave will collaborate with B*tch McConnell and Paul Patsy Ryan to both impeach and convict Trump (and Pence) and install …

    That’s where it gets interesting. Will it be Speaker Nancy Palsi? Or crazy Maxine Waters as a place holder for Kamala Harris? Or a Hillary Restoration, don’t laugh Hillary has the support that matters. Not you deplorables but the thousands of journalists and hundreds of FBI/DOJ spouses on her payroll, like a Junior Soros out of Arkansas.

    And a President Hillary, vengeful and angry at White men in general, will not be a pretty sight. There will be ZERO checks and balances against the Cankles of Death, and Executive Order 666 demanding immediate castration of all Straight White men is likely on her agenda Day 1 (I’m only slightly kidding on that one — only slightly). Bill will probably be the first to go.

    Look, what matters is not the Constitution (might as well wipe your ass with it as it has as much meaning as toilet paper) or institutions or the law or votes or the people. Its POWER in various machine organizations the Clintons run, grifters like Al Sharpton, Oligarchs like Bezos, Zuck, and Gates, and the pussy hat brigade driven by sexual resentment (at getting older and less hot, at not landing that Alpha male, at being looked at by beta males the latter infuriating to women).

    This is why I pray for war, NOW. A big, nasty war that requires massive mobilization and shoves aside the Hillary/Zuck/Bezos nexus by the only boys big enough to shove them off the playground — the military industrial complex.

    We’ve tried peace and got thirty years of Hate Whitey and Hate HATE HATE White males. Give War a chance. Its easy if you try. Peace is over. If you want it.

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    • Replies: @TTSSYF
    I'm a white woman, and I share your frustration and agree with much of what you say. I don't know where it's going to end, but it's not looking good for a peaceful resolution.
    , @Brutusale
    Feynman was a rake of the first order. Everyone I've read about Feynman has many comments about how he got more ass than the proverbial toilet seat.
    , @BB753
    In case you haven't noticed, America has been at war since 2003.
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  135. @Tyrion 2
    Matt Yglesias has been talking to the odious Ezra Klein. Both are disingenuous bad faith weasels. Unfortunately their motivation is not the truth but simple self-aggrandisement and bizarre ritual humiliation of those who won't enable them.

    It is that simple. Sam Harris recently had a podcast with Klein and Klein was intellectually gross. An intelligent individual putting that intelligence to the most obnoxious use. He's like a bad guy from an Ayn Rand novel on steroids, or more accurately, estrogen pills.

    These are the self-satisfied worst of people. They're the highest level of SJWs. As a fellow Jew, it shames me to say they're the SJWs inner party - smart enough to know better but sickly manipulative and irredeemably without virtue.

    Matt Yglesias has been talking to the odious Ezra Klein.

    Yes, in slight defense of Yglesias, I think some of his intellectual decline may be due to his association with Ezra Klein, who’s always struck me as a totally empty-headed nitwit. And such a harsh assessment has nothing to do with ideology.

    For example, back a few years ago I published a major article advocated a huge hike in the Minimum Wage, a proposal that played a very large role in sparking the wildly successful national movement of recent years on that issue. But at the time, Klein ridiculed the notion on his Cable TV show, denouncing the very concept of a Minimum Wage and saying that only idiots and economic ignoramuses supported the idea. Not exactly traditional “progressivism”:

    http://www.unz.com/runz/immigration-liberal-dc-pundit-denounces-minimum-wage-on-msnbc/

    Then in 2016, he interviewed presidential candidate Bernie Sanders, who (quite reasonably) argued that “Open Borders” hurt working people by driving down wages. Klein absolutely lambasted him, instead suggesting that the views of the Editorial Page of The Wall Street Journal(!) represented the proper source for all progressive thinking on such economics issue:

    http://www.unz.com/runz/a-grand-bargain-on-immigration-reform-2/#p_1_6

    What can you say about someone like that? I’d assume his Oligarch paymasters regard him as a “useful idiot”…but I suppose the “useful” part could be debated…

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    • Replies: @Lot
    You have a habit of calling people who disagree with you stupid, seemingly earnestly, who pretty clearly are not. Klein had a top political blog when he was 19 and knows more about the details of health care regulation and policy then any other working journalist. In his 20s he co-founded Vox then sold it for several million about theee years later.
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  136. @Dave Pinsen
    He's not as pale as the former president of Peru he bribed, but he is the descendant of German immigrants, and the complexion of those snagged by the scandal seems to broadly mirror that of the region's elite.

    https://www.hotrecentnews.com/img/president-peru-kuczynski-resigns-36078.jpg

    Marcelo is only 25% German, only his grandfather was German. But this is not even the point of the discussion. He could be a pure German and this doesn’t weaken the point of my post. We find exceptions to everything when we discuss biological and social phenomena. We are discussing averages, and average crime provoked by Lebanese in Brazil, is far greater than that produced by Germans.

    The political elites of Latin America is largely white. But this has nothing to do with white inclination for dishonesty. This is because democracy in the region is in the hands of a lot of mestizos, mulattos, blacks and Indians unable to choose better politicians. So, the political system selects only the demagogues, who take advantage of this stupid population. Honest and realistic politicians have little chance to succed in the region. The proportion of politicians, or people who take advantage of the system for their own benefit is much higher among Lebanese than among the general population.

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    • Replies: @Dave Pinsen
    Your argument was that Lebanese commit more crimes than Germans in Latin America. I don't have the stats on that (if you do, feel free to share), but as I suggested, the ethnicities of the elites snagged in the scandal so far seem to be representative of the elite. That seems to be true with respect to class as well, contra this claim of yours:

    This is because democracy in the region is in the hands of a lot of mestizos, mulattos, blacks and Indians unable to choose better politicians. So, the political system selects only the demagogues, who take advantage of this stupid population.
     
    Pedro Pablo Kucynski, the former president of Peru whose photo I posted above, is an Oxford and Princeton educated technocrat, with a stronger CV than the last few presidents of the U.S. That men as different in background as him and Lula have been caught up in the same general mess is amazing. But let's give some credit to the Brazilians for having a strong enough rule of law to topple one president and put another former one behind bars for corruption. Hillary would likely be behind bars now if we had similarly strong rule of law.
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  137. @Charles Erwin Wilson II

    Yes, eventually liberals will have to scrap the charade of democracy and replace it with an openly totalitarian system. Most liberals look forward to this as a positive development. Democracy scares them.
     
    True. It is why they work so hard to get gun confiscation implemented.

    True. It is why they work so hard to get gun confiscation implemented.

    This is why American democracy is doomed. American right-wingers can’t think of anything but their beloved guns. Guns are the answer to everything, even though strangely enough guns have not been able to prevent all your freedoms from being taken away from you one by one, and have not been able to prevent your political system from becoming the most corrupted on the planet, and have not slowed down your transformation into a totalitarianism. But guns are powerful magic ju-ju!

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    • Replies: @The preferred nomenclature is...
    I bet all those non-gunnut Russian peasants wished they would've had guns when it came time to be shipped off to the gulags.

    When that time comes here, and it is coming, us gunnuts will be the only thing between life and mass extermination. You would do well to read up on some actual history before regurgitating your nonsense on this site.
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  138. @Ron Unz

    It must make Steve feel like quite an old man to read Matt Yglesias, whose work he’s been writing about intermittently since 2004 or so, still being described as “young”!
     
    Well, I started following Yglesias when he launched his blog soon after graduating college or something like that, so I guess I'll always think of him as someone just out of college...

    I hate to say it, but he never seemed to really make the transition from being a provocative blogger to being a serious journalist or intellectual. Some of his blog posts were really pretty witty, but I can't think of one article he's ever written since then that made much of an impression on me.

    Scratch that. After he was randomly attacked by a couple of blacks in DC playing "knockout game" he suggested that the true underlying cause of urban violence was housing density regulations or that sort of thing. Ha, ha, ha...

    His trolling of rich liberal NIMBYs on restrictive housing regulations is his one contribution to this world.

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  139. @Anon
    Will people like Yglesias explain WHY they chose to emigrate to white-majority nations created by Anglos and Germanics?

    Fat Matt is Jewish and Hispanic, right? Jews could have sought out OTHER places to emigrate to.
    And yet, when Jews had a chance to leave backward Russian empire, they almost always chose the nations created by Anglo-Wasp-Germanic 'white supremacists'. Jews are strangely and perniciously attracted to 'white supremacism'. Why?

    And 'Hispanics', both blanco and Indigeno, want to move from Diversity to whiter nations.

    And when Hindus and Asians are given a chance to emigrate, their top choices are almost always Anglo-Germanic made nations.

    Isn't that pernicious? Instead of just focusing on WHITE immigration policy, we should look at NON-WHITE and JEWISH immigration preferences. Even as they berate 'white supremacism', they want to move to nations made by 'white supremacism'.

    Even among African nations, the #1 favorite destination for Jews was white-ruled South Africa. How many Jews wanted to move to Zaire or Congo? How many wanted to move to Zimbabwe after Mugabe took over? Well, well, how pernicious of Jews to favor White-ruled South Africa over other African nations ruled by blacks.

    If I remember right, Yglesias is 3/4 Ashkenazi and one quarter northern Spanish.

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    • Replies: @MEH 0910
    https://twitter.com/mattyglesias/status/982055241209262081
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  140. @Ron Unz

    Matt Yglesias has been talking to the odious Ezra Klein.
     
    Yes, in slight defense of Yglesias, I think some of his intellectual decline may be due to his association with Ezra Klein, who's always struck me as a totally empty-headed nitwit. And such a harsh assessment has nothing to do with ideology.

    For example, back a few years ago I published a major article advocated a huge hike in the Minimum Wage, a proposal that played a very large role in sparking the wildly successful national movement of recent years on that issue. But at the time, Klein ridiculed the notion on his Cable TV show, denouncing the very concept of a Minimum Wage and saying that only idiots and economic ignoramuses supported the idea. Not exactly traditional "progressivism":

    http://www.unz.com/runz/immigration-liberal-dc-pundit-denounces-minimum-wage-on-msnbc/

    Then in 2016, he interviewed presidential candidate Bernie Sanders, who (quite reasonably) argued that "Open Borders" hurt working people by driving down wages. Klein absolutely lambasted him, instead suggesting that the views of the Editorial Page of The Wall Street Journal(!) represented the proper source for all progressive thinking on such economics issue:

    http://www.unz.com/runz/a-grand-bargain-on-immigration-reform-2/#p_1_6

    What can you say about someone like that? I'd assume his Oligarch paymasters regard him as a "useful idiot"...but I suppose the "useful" part could be debated...

    You have a habit of calling people who disagree with you stupid, seemingly earnestly, who pretty clearly are not. Klein had a top political blog when he was 19 and knows more about the details of health care regulation and policy then any other working journalist. In his 20s he co-founded Vox then sold it for several million about theee years later.

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    • Replies: @J.Ross
    >he's not stupid, he's my blogger
    Why, it's like Ben Stiller struggling against his upbringing to win a show business career, whether audiences wanted it or not! Klein has been called stupid numerous times on his grasp of economics. Klein might actually be right but Unz is not unique in his assessment. You know who else is stupid despite fake unearned accomplishments is Jonah "please do my historical research for me" Goldberg. Goldberg responded to this accusation somewhere and listed superior fake accomplishments to Klein's -- editor of a magazine sounds objectively harder than blogger. These people exist to propagate a message that did not originate with them. They do not so much as cast a shadow in a summer evening without that. Next you'll tell me that David Hogg is a brave soul who does all his own camera work.
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  141. @Marcus D.
    Marcelo is only 25% German, only his grandfather was German. But this is not even the point of the discussion. He could be a pure German and this doesn't weaken the point of my post. We find exceptions to everything when we discuss biological and social phenomena. We are discussing averages, and average crime provoked by Lebanese in Brazil, is far greater than that produced by Germans.

    The political elites of Latin America is largely white. But this has nothing to do with white inclination for dishonesty. This is because democracy in the region is in the hands of a lot of mestizos, mulattos, blacks and Indians unable to choose better politicians. So, the political system selects only the demagogues, who take advantage of this stupid population. Honest and realistic politicians have little chance to succed in the region. The proportion of politicians, or people who take advantage of the system for their own benefit is much higher among Lebanese than among the general population.

    Your argument was that Lebanese commit more crimes than Germans in Latin America. I don’t have the stats on that (if you do, feel free to share), but as I suggested, the ethnicities of the elites snagged in the scandal so far seem to be representative of the elite. That seems to be true with respect to class as well, contra this claim of yours:

    This is because democracy in the region is in the hands of a lot of mestizos, mulattos, blacks and Indians unable to choose better politicians. So, the political system selects only the demagogues, who take advantage of this stupid population.

    Pedro Pablo Kucynski, the former president of Peru whose photo I posted above, is an Oxford and Princeton educated technocrat, with a stronger CV than the last few presidents of the U.S. That men as different in background as him and Lula have been caught up in the same general mess is amazing. But let’s give some credit to the Brazilians for having a strong enough rule of law to topple one president and put another former one behind bars for corruption. Hillary would likely be behind bars now if we had similarly strong rule of law.

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    • Replies: @Marcus D.
    My intention was to explain that Lebanese cause more white-collar crimes than Germans in Brazil. This is an observation I have accumulated through the years. Since often there are people with Arab surnames involved in corruption scandals, in larger numbers than Germans.

    But I don't think Lebanese people are elite in Brazil. Because, I don’t see an equally significant representation of Lebanese in the academy, in the media, in the artistic or economic world. This is why I tried to explain why Christian Arabs in the end are not much better than Muslins Arabs.
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  142. Anon[425] • Disclaimer says:
    @Charles Pewitt
    I have called Charles Murray a high IQ muttonhead because he hasn't called for a moratorium on legal immigration into the United States. But I must say that Murray, who is sneaky and might have done some intellectual wetwork for various shady oufits, has called attention to some important things.

    In 2014, Murray said capitalism was in bed with the government. Now that has always been the case, and I would suggest you can't have capitalism in a debt-based fiat currency system, and that plutocracy would be a better word to describe what is going on rather than capitalism, but at least Murray is pointing out that things are rigged in the United States.

    Charles Murray in 2014:

    There's another thing that's going on...which is even bigger: capitalism in bed with the government. Big time. The American people look at the way people make zillions of bucks because they can get the regulations they want to, because they get the government to support their technology. They see that going on, plus the crony capitalism. And the number of these capitalists are enthusiastically in favor of real competition is depressingly small.

     

    Murray has this to say about his youth and the new globalizer class:

    Back in the 1960s or 50s, when I was growing up, the executives of the Maytag company, in the town where I lived, wouldn't buy Cadillacs, that was getting too fancy, too flamboyant.

     


    There is a new upper class that is increasingly really happy being a new upper class. They have left behind the American tradition of saying hey, we're just folks. They are, actually, rather enjoying the position. It's Un-American...

     

    Charles Murray is sneaky and shady and he might be too old to recognize the globalism against patriotism brawl that launched Brexit and then Trump, and he is as soft as warm butter on mass legal immigration, but he sees the brawl coming between the globalizer high IQ ruling class of the American Empire and the patriots who are now fighting for the sovereignty and independence of the United States.

    https://twitter.com/CharlesPewitt/status/457220870381903873

    Murray is like Mr. Magoo.

    He isn’t very courageous but accidentally ‘stumbles’ into ersatz-courage by writing something without anticipating the full implications.

    Anyway, look how he folded on ‘gay marriage’. No respect for Murray after that.

    As for Bell Curve, the it’s now between Bell Curse and Bell Curb.

    Reich is of the Bell Curse school. He admits the differences but treats it like a curse. It is admitted but with much hair-pulling.. even though he hasn’t much hair.

    And then you got PC loons who call for Bell Curb. Those Middlebury loonies. Or more genteel PC commissars who insist Murray’s book was ‘discredited’.

    It’s hard to be just Bell Curious.

    And then you got Chetty’s Bell Curry that goes for all sorts of Brahmanic doubletalk.

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  143. @Lot
    You have a habit of calling people who disagree with you stupid, seemingly earnestly, who pretty clearly are not. Klein had a top political blog when he was 19 and knows more about the details of health care regulation and policy then any other working journalist. In his 20s he co-founded Vox then sold it for several million about theee years later.

    >he’s not stupid, he’s my blogger
    Why, it’s like Ben Stiller struggling against his upbringing to win a show business career, whether audiences wanted it or not! Klein has been called stupid numerous times on his grasp of economics. Klein might actually be right but Unz is not unique in his assessment. You know who else is stupid despite fake unearned accomplishments is Jonah “please do my historical research for me” Goldberg. Goldberg responded to this accusation somewhere and listed superior fake accomplishments to Klein’s — editor of a magazine sounds objectively harder than blogger. These people exist to propagate a message that did not originate with them. They do not so much as cast a shadow in a summer evening without that. Next you’ll tell me that David Hogg is a brave soul who does all his own camera work.

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  144. @Dave Pinsen
    Your argument was that Lebanese commit more crimes than Germans in Latin America. I don't have the stats on that (if you do, feel free to share), but as I suggested, the ethnicities of the elites snagged in the scandal so far seem to be representative of the elite. That seems to be true with respect to class as well, contra this claim of yours:

    This is because democracy in the region is in the hands of a lot of mestizos, mulattos, blacks and Indians unable to choose better politicians. So, the political system selects only the demagogues, who take advantage of this stupid population.
     
    Pedro Pablo Kucynski, the former president of Peru whose photo I posted above, is an Oxford and Princeton educated technocrat, with a stronger CV than the last few presidents of the U.S. That men as different in background as him and Lula have been caught up in the same general mess is amazing. But let's give some credit to the Brazilians for having a strong enough rule of law to topple one president and put another former one behind bars for corruption. Hillary would likely be behind bars now if we had similarly strong rule of law.

    My intention was to explain that Lebanese cause more white-collar crimes than Germans in Brazil. This is an observation I have accumulated through the years. Since often there are people with Arab surnames involved in corruption scandals, in larger numbers than Germans.

    But I don’t think Lebanese people are elite in Brazil. Because, I don’t see an equally significant representation of Lebanese in the academy, in the media, in the artistic or economic world. This is why I tried to explain why Christian Arabs in the end are not much better than Muslins Arabs.

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    • Replies: @Dave Pinsen
    Michel Temer and Carlos Ghosn seem pretty elite, though I suppose Ghosn hasn’t lived there for years.
    , @AndrewR
    Meu amiguinho, all politicians in Brasiuuu are corrupt, with the possible exception of our lord and savior Jair Bolsonaro.
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  145. @Marcus D.
    My intention was to explain that Lebanese cause more white-collar crimes than Germans in Brazil. This is an observation I have accumulated through the years. Since often there are people with Arab surnames involved in corruption scandals, in larger numbers than Germans.

    But I don't think Lebanese people are elite in Brazil. Because, I don’t see an equally significant representation of Lebanese in the academy, in the media, in the artistic or economic world. This is why I tried to explain why Christian Arabs in the end are not much better than Muslins Arabs.

    Michel Temer and Carlos Ghosn seem pretty elite, though I suppose Ghosn hasn’t lived there for years.

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    • Replies: @Disordered
    Christian Arabs in Latin America tend to be middle to upper class, usually the latter but not always; since they were the region's most recent wave of immigrants (early 20th century), they did have to come up the ladder a bit, even if they brought more wealth than say the Chinese or the Italians. Usually they ran imports of rugs and convenience store packaged goods, not too dissimilar to the Latin Asians who came and forged ahead selling fried rice and importing soda and candy (although the Arabs are a step above them in the elite ladder, I reckon). Furthermore, while they can be a part of the economic elite, they remain somewhat distinct from the older European-Latin oligarchs (who aren't always the descendants of conquistadors and bandeirantes, but who have also mixed with 19th century whiter immigrants, usually Germans). These Latin Arabs don't separate to the level of Jews (though they are similarly accused of being thrifty and shifty, with usually good reasons, the Arabs in fact usually in corruption scandals), but they are somewhat distinct still. They tend to be conservative and/or populist, quite Catholic (reason they fled, after all), and even patriotic. They are visible specially in sports for some reason (in some places they made horseracing more popular than bullfighting; later, several put money in soccer clubs). In short, they are considered "new money" by some older elites, and therefore not considered always as such; this was however more true in the 20th century, when they first were reaching powerful positions and therefore the older criollos felt resentment. Today they are more integrated and elite, even if somewhat distinct and visible, but only sometimes more crooked - again, not too dissimilar to that other famous Semite people.
    Allllll of this said, the wrongs of the Latin elites don't necessarily come from their blood admixture, but also from the people they both lead and feed from. You could say lots about the terrible inheritance left by the Spanish colonial system and its descendants that keep following it, but that does not tell the whole story, as Latin America has been independent for longer than Taiwan or Singapore or Poland or Ireland yet still do worse, even as resource rich as Latin America is, and despite having tried even more forms of government, staged coups, revolutions, so many constitutional do-overs, etc. The racial aspect is important, in fact it is more important than currently admitted to in Latin America (as doing so would unleash ethnic warfare hell); the elites have been consistently of one race, but to varying degrees they've had popular support of enough brown faces. So it cannot be solely blamed on them - which is another near universal Latin characteristic, the lack of love for accountability.

    Just my two cents - and no I'm not Latin Lebanese, but my birth country (?) has an interesting sample size, including a president who sang and danced Jailhouse Rock on stage and on duty.
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  146. @Whiskey
    Feynman is exhibit A on why high IQ for males is a turn off ... in peace time. What do women want (in having a man get them pregnant lets say?) Its Tavon White not Richard Feynman. Women want (this is empirical evidence) the spawn of killers. Its simple primate dominance 101 and the tragedy of modern life is that wealth and security is built on really eliminating raw Male dominance as much as possible because a nation of Trayvon Martins creates at best Lagos and at worst General Butt Naked. Nigeria sort of works with Western aid and lots of oil revenues, places like Ivory Coast and Liberia fall into Lord of the Flies. But hey women find that sexy. [Nikolas de Jesus Cruz now has thousands of teen girls sending him love letters.]

    Trump? He's been an unmitigated disaster and it would have been better if the she-beast Hillary! had won. Trump has only made elites and every pussy-hat wearing woman (which is most of them) and non-Whites furiously angry while doing nothing to push ordinary White men into power. Or even improving their station and status in life. AFTER Trump we have been deluged with articles openly calling for elimination of White men and I am predicting some media outlet will run an article calling for active violent genocide against White men. Don't kid yourself White women will be all over that like teen girls over a school shooter killer.

    Mueller is likely going to put every nasty thing he can find in Cohen's private files into the media through friendly leaks, the Blue Wave will collaborate with B*tch McConnell and Paul Patsy Ryan to both impeach and convict Trump (and Pence) and install ...

    That's where it gets interesting. Will it be Speaker Nancy Palsi? Or crazy Maxine Waters as a place holder for Kamala Harris? Or a Hillary Restoration, don't laugh Hillary has the support that matters. Not you deplorables but the thousands of journalists and hundreds of FBI/DOJ spouses on her payroll, like a Junior Soros out of Arkansas.

    And a President Hillary, vengeful and angry at White men in general, will not be a pretty sight. There will be ZERO checks and balances against the Cankles of Death, and Executive Order 666 demanding immediate castration of all Straight White men is likely on her agenda Day 1 (I'm only slightly kidding on that one -- only slightly). Bill will probably be the first to go.

    Look, what matters is not the Constitution (might as well wipe your ass with it as it has as much meaning as toilet paper) or institutions or the law or votes or the people. Its POWER in various machine organizations the Clintons run, grifters like Al Sharpton, Oligarchs like Bezos, Zuck, and Gates, and the pussy hat brigade driven by sexual resentment (at getting older and less hot, at not landing that Alpha male, at being looked at by beta males the latter infuriating to women).

    This is why I pray for war, NOW. A big, nasty war that requires massive mobilization and shoves aside the Hillary/Zuck/Bezos nexus by the only boys big enough to shove them off the playground -- the military industrial complex.

    We've tried peace and got thirty years of Hate Whitey and Hate HATE HATE White males. Give War a chance. Its easy if you try. Peace is over. If you want it.

    I’m a white woman, and I share your frustration and agree with much of what you say. I don’t know where it’s going to end, but it’s not looking good for a peaceful resolution.

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  147. @Lot
    "So, at least as it pertains to immigration, the Overton Window is not our problem."

    In political races, sure. Republicans can and do win advocating solid restrictionist policies. In elite circles, definitely not. Here is an article comparing donations in 2012 to 2016 of employees of elite law firms and investment banks.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/06/opinion/trump-lawyers-elites.html

    In 2012 Romney received 42% of these donations. In 2016, Trump received less than 1%, only 40 donations out of 4812. While Romney's elite background and positions compared to Trump among these elites partly explains this, populism isn't -that- unpopular among elites, nor 100-1 less popular than Hillary-ism. The difference is that these people, who are working-age ambitious elites still running the rat race, are scared to make a public donation to Trump.

    This is why Trump's boorish behavior is so concerning. It got him votes and let him beat Jeb and Rubio amd Hillary, but it helped make him and immigrantion restriction even more toxic in elite circles, which explains why now that he is in office he has been so ineffective at doing much more than cutting the taxes of the rich and appointing judges who are largely former corporate lawyers or Koch-network functionaries.

    I don't mean to blame Trump completely, but he made a pre-existing trend worse for sure.

    His boorish behavior has been egged on by the Left and Never Trumpers in their unwillingness to accept the results of the election and ride it out until 2020, when they can make another run for the White House. A not-so-silent coup has been underway ever since 11/9/2017. I don’t think he’d be quite so boorish if he were being allowed to govern and not being assailed from all directions.

    Like many others, it’s been my belief for years that we’ve been letting in too many of the wrong people (lower IQ and/or congenital Leftists) and have mis-educated the native born (an incredible number of young people, albeit more women than men, ascribe to socialism) and have changed the character of the country, likely irreversibly. It’s a tragedy but perhaps unavoidable. The global forces pushing the “blank slate” theory being played out in Europe, Australia, Canada, and the U.S. are too great, and those pushing it are too unwilling to be reasonable for there to be any resolution other than their outright defeat…and that very well may mean war.

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    • Replies: @Lot
    I agree on all points.
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  148. @Thomm

    WNs frankly recognize the superior natural merit of white racial aesthetics in general.
     
    Yes, if you count the top 80% of whites, and exclude the bottom 20%, which is a defective subrace where the genetic waste matter collects.

    Remember, white variance is very high. The bottom quintile is inferior to the top four quintiles by a greater degree than is found in any other race.

    About this bottom 20% that comprises waste matter :

    The men become WNs.
    The women become fat bluehaired feminists.

    So when you see an attractive white person (i.e. my race), remember that you have no more in common with them than a mangy feral dog has with a Kodiak Bear.

    I still wonder if you WN losers will ever figure out why you can't vocalize WN views even in a bar in Idaho or Montana that is 100% white. We want to keep the waste matter out.

    A bar in Idaho, Montana, or any other place that is 100% white doesn’t know what the WN knows, because they aren’t exposed to it. They have the luxury of being open-minded to blank-slate theory.

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  149. @Citizen of a Silly Country
    OT:

    And then they came for The Simpsons - though to the show's credit, they basically tell the SJWs to go to hell.

    It's fun to watch the old guard liberals get taken down by their own children. That said, I was a big fan of the Simpsons in the early 90s.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/apr/10/simpsons-apu-stereotype-racism-south-asian-fans

    Like most Simpsons writers, the creators of Harold and Kumar were white guys, Jon Hurwitz and Hayden Schlossberg

    White. Mhmm. Yep. I bet they’re both descended from everyone on the Mayflower.

    In Kondabolu’s film, he speaks to the former Simpsons writer Dana Gould, who says that “there are accents that by their nature, to white Americans, I can only speak from experience, sound funny”. The joke was too hard to resist, even if it was only funny to one ethnic group.

    Are we really supposed to assume that non-white Americans don’t tend to find Apu’s accent amusing?

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  150. @Marcus D.
    My intention was to explain that Lebanese cause more white-collar crimes than Germans in Brazil. This is an observation I have accumulated through the years. Since often there are people with Arab surnames involved in corruption scandals, in larger numbers than Germans.

    But I don't think Lebanese people are elite in Brazil. Because, I don’t see an equally significant representation of Lebanese in the academy, in the media, in the artistic or economic world. This is why I tried to explain why Christian Arabs in the end are not much better than Muslins Arabs.

    Meu amiguinho, all politicians in Brasiuuu are corrupt, with the possible exception of our lord and savior Jair Bolsonaro.

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    • Replies: @Marcus D.
    Oi colega, let's be honest, isteve fans are generally more intelligent than Bolsonaro supporters.
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  151. @Charles Erwin Wilson II
    Whiskey, we know it is you.

    Whiskey’s right, though he’s rendering in 8 bit.

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  152. I was a bit shocked by the blank-slate, correlation-equals-causality logic of this sentence from Yglesias:

    “While black women earn less than white women, that earnings gap essentially vanishes when you account for the fact that white women on average have richer parents than black women”

    This same logic also proves that Japanese men are just as tall as Norwegian men:

    While Japanese men are shorter than Norwegian men, that height gap essentially vanishes when you account for the fact that Norwegian men on average have taller parents than Japanese men.

    Next, Matthew Yglesias will prove that living in a nursing home causes people to be elderly.

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  153. @Anonymous
    I had rather hoped that you would have had some more substantial comments on the Yglesias article. Perhaps in an upcoming Taki's column?

    Also, am I missing something or does Yglesias not actually address Murray and Herrnstein's claim that current social policy is effectively dysgenic?

    Personally, I think it would be good to have more intelligent, productive and law-abiding people in society, as opposed to more stupid, unproductive and law-breaking people, and since a big part of what determines that is who your biological parents are (as e.g. sperm donation seekers are well aware) it would be good for the government to put some thought into this.

    Remember Tavon White, head of the Baltimore prison system BGF, who appeared on iSteve a few years ago? He had something like 4 children with female prison guards alone, and he had at least one baby mama on the outside. Whereas Richard Feynman had 2 children and John von Neumann had 1. Funny how that works.

    Personally, I think it would be good to have more intelligent, productive and law-abiding people in society, as opposed to more stupid, unproductive and law-breaking people, and since a big part of what determines that is who your biological parents are (as e.g. sperm donation seekers are well aware) it would be good for the government to put some thought into this.

    Racist!

    Seriously, don’t you know that while this seems like ordinary common sense–the basic folk wisdom people have understood for millennia–it has been disproven by Hitler?

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  154. @J.Ross
    If there's one line that suggests this guy is talking into his propeller beanie and unlikely to have expected any editing when writing it, it's putting forth a "consensus of economist opinion." I would be scared to do so. When the Western establishment economists thought that people starving and freezing to death in recently de-Communized Eastern Europe sounded fair, there existed equally credentialled economists who interrupted that consensus. Economics is politics hiding behind math and you can get any economic judgment you want by identifying the ideology of the economist. If there's a worse line, it's connecting that consensus to Marx. I still remember the Nation special anniversary edition (I had a subscription in high school), where a number of leftist scholars put forth pronouncements on how Marx had aged. Most of them agreed that plenty of his ideas were wrong or needed serious updating, with one guy planting his feet in the idea that Marx was just as right and just as important. I'm guessing rightist and libertarian economists would have added to the objections, and gone further by disputing the idea, universally accepted by the special edition group, that Marx was significant and morally good regardless of his failures.
    With that being said it is entirely possible, and even likely, that Marx's works were full of reasonable observations. Marx wasn't an economist, after all, he was a nineteenth century social critic essayist like Zola or (later but the same shtick) Gorky. It is even possible that those reasonable observations do not bear out the arguments they are supposed to illustrate. But nobody needs to worry about things like that when you talk about "settled science" or "scholarly consensus."

    Well Marx was philosopher first. He was mainly influenced by Hegel (dialectical part) and Feuerbach (atheism part). Also, there is his own understand of ancient pre-Socratic philosophers… Zola and Gorky were novelists first and foremost.

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  155. @Marcus D.
    Yes, this the CEO of the company at the time of the scandals:

    https://ogimg.infoglobo.com.br/in/18825628-3b3-4e6/FT1086A/420/marcelo-2.jpg

    His name is Marcelo Odebrecht. Does he look german to you ?

    Joachim Lov, Prince Karl von Shwartzenberg… for start. There are swarthy Germans out there.

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  156. @Whiskey
    Feynman is exhibit A on why high IQ for males is a turn off ... in peace time. What do women want (in having a man get them pregnant lets say?) Its Tavon White not Richard Feynman. Women want (this is empirical evidence) the spawn of killers. Its simple primate dominance 101 and the tragedy of modern life is that wealth and security is built on really eliminating raw Male dominance as much as possible because a nation of Trayvon Martins creates at best Lagos and at worst General Butt Naked. Nigeria sort of works with Western aid and lots of oil revenues, places like Ivory Coast and Liberia fall into Lord of the Flies. But hey women find that sexy. [Nikolas de Jesus Cruz now has thousands of teen girls sending him love letters.]

    Trump? He's been an unmitigated disaster and it would have been better if the she-beast Hillary! had won. Trump has only made elites and every pussy-hat wearing woman (which is most of them) and non-Whites furiously angry while doing nothing to push ordinary White men into power. Or even improving their station and status in life. AFTER Trump we have been deluged with articles openly calling for elimination of White men and I am predicting some media outlet will run an article calling for active violent genocide against White men. Don't kid yourself White women will be all over that like teen girls over a school shooter killer.

    Mueller is likely going to put every nasty thing he can find in Cohen's private files into the media through friendly leaks, the Blue Wave will collaborate with B*tch McConnell and Paul Patsy Ryan to both impeach and convict Trump (and Pence) and install ...

    That's where it gets interesting. Will it be Speaker Nancy Palsi? Or crazy Maxine Waters as a place holder for Kamala Harris? Or a Hillary Restoration, don't laugh Hillary has the support that matters. Not you deplorables but the thousands of journalists and hundreds of FBI/DOJ spouses on her payroll, like a Junior Soros out of Arkansas.

    And a President Hillary, vengeful and angry at White men in general, will not be a pretty sight. There will be ZERO checks and balances against the Cankles of Death, and Executive Order 666 demanding immediate castration of all Straight White men is likely on her agenda Day 1 (I'm only slightly kidding on that one -- only slightly). Bill will probably be the first to go.

    Look, what matters is not the Constitution (might as well wipe your ass with it as it has as much meaning as toilet paper) or institutions or the law or votes or the people. Its POWER in various machine organizations the Clintons run, grifters like Al Sharpton, Oligarchs like Bezos, Zuck, and Gates, and the pussy hat brigade driven by sexual resentment (at getting older and less hot, at not landing that Alpha male, at being looked at by beta males the latter infuriating to women).

    This is why I pray for war, NOW. A big, nasty war that requires massive mobilization and shoves aside the Hillary/Zuck/Bezos nexus by the only boys big enough to shove them off the playground -- the military industrial complex.

    We've tried peace and got thirty years of Hate Whitey and Hate HATE HATE White males. Give War a chance. Its easy if you try. Peace is over. If you want it.

    Feynman was a rake of the first order. Everyone I’ve read about Feynman has many comments about how he got more ass than the proverbial toilet seat.

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  157. @Thomm

    WNs frankly recognize the superior natural merit of white racial aesthetics in general.
     
    Yes, if you count the top 80% of whites, and exclude the bottom 20%, which is a defective subrace where the genetic waste matter collects.

    Remember, white variance is very high. The bottom quintile is inferior to the top four quintiles by a greater degree than is found in any other race.

    About this bottom 20% that comprises waste matter :

    The men become WNs.
    The women become fat bluehaired feminists.

    So when you see an attractive white person (i.e. my race), remember that you have no more in common with them than a mangy feral dog has with a Kodiak Bear.

    I still wonder if you WN losers will ever figure out why you can't vocalize WN views even in a bar in Idaho or Montana that is 100% white. We want to keep the waste matter out.

    white person (i.e. my race)

    Now Thomm, you’re no more convincing than those of another tribe claiming to be “fellow whites.” Nonetheless, I’m sure you’ve got plenty of sordid tales of meeting bears in Montana bars. :)

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    • Replies: @Thomm
    The point stands. You are persona non grata in any large white gatherings that are not specifically WN (which of course includes any large white gathering that has any women).

    Remember that white variance is very high, which is why you have nothing in common with successful whites, and we refuse your demands for intra-white socialism.

    Now go home and get your shinebox!

    Heh heh heh heh
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  158. @Lot
    If I remember right, Yglesias is 3/4 Ashkenazi and one quarter northern Spanish.
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  159. @Marcus D.
    Yes, this the CEO of the company at the time of the scandals:

    https://ogimg.infoglobo.com.br/in/18825628-3b3-4e6/FT1086A/420/marcelo-2.jpg

    His name is Marcelo Odebrecht. Does he look german to you ?

    Maybe he doesn’t look German but this guy does:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_emissions_scandal

    Or maybe we should take a trip to 1920-45 Germany for more pictures.

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  160. @Half Canadian
    I’m pretty sure that Canada’s immigration system predates Trudeau the Second.
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  161. @Jenner Ickham Errican

    white person (i.e. my race)
     
    Now Thomm, you’re no more convincing than those of another tribe claiming to be “fellow whites.” Nonetheless, I’m sure you’ve got plenty of sordid tales of meeting bears in Montana bars. :)

    The point stands. You are persona non grata in any large white gatherings that are not specifically WN (which of course includes any large white gathering that has any women).

    Remember that white variance is very high, which is why you have nothing in common with successful whites, and we refuse your demands for intra-white socialism.

    Now go home and get your shinebox!

    Heh heh heh heh

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    • Replies: @res

    Heh heh heh heh
     
    OK, Beavis. https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Beavis%20and%20Butthead
    , @J.Ross
    >You are persona non grata
    Oh right, cos you're an Indian, so status is literally everything in four hundred and thirty-two universes to you. Now back up and explain why I should convert to a thought system that hates me and wants me to die violently.
    , @Jenner Ickham Errican
    we refuse”

    LOL. You’re not even white!

    I’m gonna call you Sad Thommbone from now on.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tKdcjJoXeEY
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  162. @Frank DeScushin
    It's unclear whether Yglesias is arguing that Murray's assertions about average group intelligence are factually wrong, whether Trump allegedly basing his immigration policy on Murray's conclusions is morally wrong, or both. In any event, Yglesias is wrong.

    Yglesias has a selective memory. Or he is lying to make a point.

    When I first read “The Bell Curve” I remarked to my friends about how few new ideas were actually in it. It was clearly written and well organized but it was only new if you had been dozing for decades.

    Yglesias is trying to brand Murray as the single source of the infection. So his acolytes can go after him with torches and pitchforks. But it’s too late. Were Murray to evaporate or melt like the Wicked Witch it wouldn’t matter. His ideas have been read and assimilated.

    His heresy isn’t just old enough to vote it’s old enough for Social Security.

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    • Agree: Ron Unz
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  163. https://twitter.com/mattyglesias/status/983730236239081473

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  164. anon[694] • Disclaimer says:

    Hernstein basically wrote the Bell Curve to claim that Ashkenazi Jews(like himself) are the smartest people on earth, but he was afraid of being called out for bias, so he dragged in the goy Charles Murray to legitimize his “findings”. Since he died the same year the book was published, Murray was left to bare the brunt of the media firestorm.

    Still, it’s asinine to blame the book when anyone with any 2 bits brain can tell the difference in IQ between races just by looking around them.

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  165. @Thomm
    The point stands. You are persona non grata in any large white gatherings that are not specifically WN (which of course includes any large white gathering that has any women).

    Remember that white variance is very high, which is why you have nothing in common with successful whites, and we refuse your demands for intra-white socialism.

    Now go home and get your shinebox!

    Heh heh heh heh
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  166. Matthew Yglesias has finally gotten around to reading the 1994 bestseller The Bell Curve

    I seriously doubt it.

    MattY is spawn of the Boomer-meme-flogging American Prospect (in the current issue: “Lessons from RFK and MLK”) and later the vehemently pro-Israeli Podestan-Dem sockpuppet, ThinkProgress.

    http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/printgroupProfile.asp?grpid=7121

    IME the founders and current rowers of these prog hulls are incapable of reading any argument grounded in quantitative data/research. They have certain emotional mental templates that they apply to everything. The goal is to get a better job by impressing foundations or individuals who fund the sinecures, usually via soft money.

    They rarely say anything, and when they don’t, it’s at great length. (“If you can’t dazzle them with genius….”)

    Like T Genius Coates bragging that he doesn’t know what a standard deviation is, but he knows racism (and a reparations vacuum) when he sees it. Tincupping, but not the honest kind.

    PS–seeing the word “Podestan” I think of a little demesne where all the libs/dems/progs/sjws/etc. live.

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  167. @Thomm
    The point stands. You are persona non grata in any large white gatherings that are not specifically WN (which of course includes any large white gathering that has any women).

    Remember that white variance is very high, which is why you have nothing in common with successful whites, and we refuse your demands for intra-white socialism.

    Now go home and get your shinebox!

    Heh heh heh heh

    >You are persona non grata
    Oh right, cos you’re an Indian, so status is literally everything in four hundred and thirty-two universes to you. Now back up and explain why I should convert to a thought system that hates me and wants me to die violently.

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  168. You can tell that Trump undoubtedly keeps his dog-eared copy of The Bell Curve on his bedside table from all the times he suddenly starts talking about standard deviations.

    That’s hilarious. Steve mentioned an idea for a sitcom in another article. Here’s another idea: A sitcom written by Trump supporters/actual closet Hollywood conservatives that portray him in a way that aligns with the Never-Trumpist view of Trump. He could spend his day researching crime statistics and population genetics, poring over border wall prototypes, conducting secret negotiations with the Russians, making funny and mildly offensive tweets, etc. Then, liberals could explain why this sitcom is funny or not. If it’s funny, then what Trump does must not be all that unacceptable to the American Public. It would be sort of like “That’s My Bush!” but less self-consciously parodic. If it isn’t funny, then perhaps the fever dreams of liberals aren’t exactly accurate.

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    • Replies: @J.Ross
    There was an SNL skit back when the great Phil Hartman graced the earth that exonerated Reagan of personal responsibility in the Iran-Contra mess on the grounds that he would have to be a different person than the dodderer we saw on TV. It looked pretty much as you describe. One of the proofs of media bias is that a truly objective SNL should be able to whip out a touch-up of an old favorite, change a couple of details and names and it's the same sketch, but they will never question the Decism that Russians come out from under their bed every night to artificially age them.
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  169. @NoWeltschmerz

    You can tell that Trump undoubtedly keeps his dog-eared copy of The Bell Curve on his bedside table from all the times he suddenly starts talking about standard deviations.

     

    That's hilarious. Steve mentioned an idea for a sitcom in another article. Here's another idea: A sitcom written by Trump supporters/actual closet Hollywood conservatives that portray him in a way that aligns with the Never-Trumpist view of Trump. He could spend his day researching crime statistics and population genetics, poring over border wall prototypes, conducting secret negotiations with the Russians, making funny and mildly offensive tweets, etc. Then, liberals could explain why this sitcom is funny or not. If it's funny, then what Trump does must not be all that unacceptable to the American Public. It would be sort of like "That's My Bush!" but less self-consciously parodic. If it isn't funny, then perhaps the fever dreams of liberals aren't exactly accurate.

    There was an SNL skit back when the great Phil Hartman graced the earth that exonerated Reagan of personal responsibility in the Iran-Contra mess on the grounds that he would have to be a different person than the dodderer we saw on TV. It looked pretty much as you describe. One of the proofs of media bias is that a truly objective SNL should be able to whip out a touch-up of an old favorite, change a couple of details and names and it’s the same sketch, but they will never question the Decism that Russians come out from under their bed every night to artificially age them.

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    • Replies: @NoWeltschmerz
    I had forgotten about that sketch, but you're right. You're also right about the late Phil Hartman being a great comedic actor. He never gets the credit he deserves in SNL retrospectives.
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  170. @Boethiuss

    This is why Trump’s boorish behavior is so concerning. It got him votes and let him beat Jeb and Rubio amd Hillary, but it helped make him and immigrantion restriction even more toxic in elite circles, which explains why now that he is in office he has been so ineffective at doing much more than cutting the taxes of the rich and appointing judges who are largely former corporate lawyers or Koch-network functionaries.
     
    Yeah, this is exactly right. It understates the case even. Trump's persona turns off elites and non-elites both. Or as I like to put, the Overton Window is better for us because of Trump, but our position within the Window is worse.

    Does Trump really turn off non-elites? I’d argue that, while the persona isn’t a saint, polls seem to still give him some support, even under the terrible circus news cycle. The Lewinsky affair did much to make Americans jaded about the necessity of good morals in a politician. If non-elites are turned off, it is more because the elites are sabotaging the agenda (when Trump doesn’t do it himself, which happens less but does); thus the ugly side of the persona that was conveniently forgotten pops in again in the popular mind.

    At any rate… do we have a choice, but support Trump AND try to keep him along the right path? Not many others will, specially not those near him. He wasn’t even a politician less than 3 years ago, so on one hand he has the popular upper hand, on the other he’s had to barely learn to deal with government bureaucrats that hate him anyway. Though I understand your point, the ideology needs better expositors, else risk being viewed as Trumpism forever – not even due to whatever mistakes he makes, but because even if he is successful, that ideology must survive him. But, there’s time and people constraints on this effort – not enough of either. Thus we must continue to toil in these ideals as best as we can, with whatever people we have on our side…

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    • Replies: @Boethiuss

    Does Trump really turn off non-elites?
     
    Oh yes, in a very important way. Inside our own heads, nobody really thinks that we are better mathematicians than Terry Tao, or a better basketball player than LeBron, but everybody feels completely comfortable disdaining and ridiculing anything Donald Trump says or tweets. In fact, it typically makes us feel good when we do it. We mentally give ourselves 10 extra IQ points for the effort.

    Now, here's the thing that those of us who are sympathetic to Trump's place on the political spectrum aren't getting. In contrast to other political figures, this applies at least as much to Trump's supporters as his adversaries. Ie, people who voted for Trump and still support him for that matter, think he's an ignorant idiot.

    There's a lot of us here who are deluded by the Scott Adams/Jack Hanson idea that Trump has some super-hidden voodoo, so that all the bad polls numbers don't matter and anyway he beat all those Republicans and Hillary. But that's a red herring. It may or may not save him from being impeached. It's not going to be a good thing for anything related to populist politics, ie immigration, if there's a large otherwise malleable cohort of public opinion whose mentality is to oppose whatever Trump is in favor of.

    At any rate… do we have a choice, but support Trump AND try to keep him along the right path? Not many others will, specially not those near him. He wasn’t even a politician less than 3 years ago, so on one hand he has the popular upper hand, on the other he’s had to barely learn to deal with government bureaucrats that hate him anyway.
     
    I think so. We should be building up the GOP as "our team", not least in our own minds, instead of being held hostage to whatever tactical mistakes or personal failings are associated with Trump.

    In particular, we have to be able to unwind the cult of the Presidency, just like we unwound the cult of the experts and political establishment to support Trump in the first place. The institutional GOP is capable of projecting longevity, competence and good character whereas Trump is not. So we should be trying to associate ourselves with them instead.
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  171. @Dave Pinsen
    Michel Temer and Carlos Ghosn seem pretty elite, though I suppose Ghosn hasn’t lived there for years.

    Christian Arabs in Latin America tend to be middle to upper class, usually the latter but not always; since they were the region’s most recent wave of immigrants (early 20th century), they did have to come up the ladder a bit, even if they brought more wealth than say the Chinese or the Italians. Usually they ran imports of rugs and convenience store packaged goods, not too dissimilar to the Latin Asians who came and forged ahead selling fried rice and importing soda and candy (although the Arabs are a step above them in the elite ladder, I reckon). Furthermore, while they can be a part of the economic elite, they remain somewhat distinct from the older European-Latin oligarchs (who aren’t always the descendants of conquistadors and bandeirantes, but who have also mixed with 19th century whiter immigrants, usually Germans). These Latin Arabs don’t separate to the level of Jews (though they are similarly accused of being thrifty and shifty, with usually good reasons, the Arabs in fact usually in corruption scandals), but they are somewhat distinct still. They tend to be conservative and/or populist, quite Catholic (reason they fled, after all), and even patriotic. They are visible specially in sports for some reason (in some places they made horseracing more popular than bullfighting; later, several put money in soccer clubs). In short, they are considered “new money” by some older elites, and therefore not considered always as such; this was however more true in the 20th century, when they first were reaching powerful positions and therefore the older criollos felt resentment. Today they are more integrated and elite, even if somewhat distinct and visible, but only sometimes more crooked – again, not too dissimilar to that other famous Semite people.
    Allllll of this said, the wrongs of the Latin elites don’t necessarily come from their blood admixture, but also from the people they both lead and feed from. You could say lots about the terrible inheritance left by the Spanish colonial system and its descendants that keep following it, but that does not tell the whole story, as Latin America has been independent for longer than Taiwan or Singapore or Poland or Ireland yet still do worse, even as resource rich as Latin America is, and despite having tried even more forms of government, staged coups, revolutions, so many constitutional do-overs, etc. The racial aspect is important, in fact it is more important than currently admitted to in Latin America (as doing so would unleash ethnic warfare hell); the elites have been consistently of one race, but to varying degrees they’ve had popular support of enough brown faces. So it cannot be solely blamed on them – which is another near universal Latin characteristic, the lack of love for accountability.

    Just my two cents – and no I’m not Latin Lebanese, but my birth country (?) has an interesting sample size, including a president who sang and danced Jailhouse Rock on stage and on duty.

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  172. @AndrewR
    Meu amiguinho, all politicians in Brasiuuu are corrupt, with the possible exception of our lord and savior Jair Bolsonaro.

    Oi colega, let’s be honest, isteve fans are generally more intelligent than Bolsonaro supporters.

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    • LOL: AndrewR
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  173. @Thomm
    The point stands. You are persona non grata in any large white gatherings that are not specifically WN (which of course includes any large white gathering that has any women).

    Remember that white variance is very high, which is why you have nothing in common with successful whites, and we refuse your demands for intra-white socialism.

    Now go home and get your shinebox!

    Heh heh heh heh

    we refuse”

    LOL. You’re not even white!

    I’m gonna call you Sad Thommbone from now on.

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  174. @Disordered
    Does Trump really turn off non-elites? I'd argue that, while the persona isn't a saint, polls seem to still give him some support, even under the terrible circus news cycle. The Lewinsky affair did much to make Americans jaded about the necessity of good morals in a politician. If non-elites are turned off, it is more because the elites are sabotaging the agenda (when Trump doesn't do it himself, which happens less but does); thus the ugly side of the persona that was conveniently forgotten pops in again in the popular mind.

    At any rate... do we have a choice, but support Trump AND try to keep him along the right path? Not many others will, specially not those near him. He wasn't even a politician less than 3 years ago, so on one hand he has the popular upper hand, on the other he's had to barely learn to deal with government bureaucrats that hate him anyway. Though I understand your point, the ideology needs better expositors, else risk being viewed as Trumpism forever - not even due to whatever mistakes he makes, but because even if he is successful, that ideology must survive him. But, there's time and people constraints on this effort - not enough of either. Thus we must continue to toil in these ideals as best as we can, with whatever people we have on our side...

    Does Trump really turn off non-elites?

    Oh yes, in a very important way. Inside our own heads, nobody really thinks that we are better mathematicians than Terry Tao, or a better basketball player than LeBron, but everybody feels completely comfortable disdaining and ridiculing anything Donald Trump says or tweets. In fact, it typically makes us feel good when we do it. We mentally give ourselves 10 extra IQ points for the effort.

    Now, here’s the thing that those of us who are sympathetic to Trump’s place on the political spectrum aren’t getting. In contrast to other political figures, this applies at least as much to Trump’s supporters as his adversaries. Ie, people who voted for Trump and still support him for that matter, think he’s an ignorant idiot.

    There’s a lot of us here who are deluded by the Scott Adams/Jack Hanson idea that Trump has some super-hidden voodoo, so that all the bad polls numbers don’t matter and anyway he beat all those Republicans and Hillary. But that’s a red herring. It may or may not save him from being impeached. It’s not going to be a good thing for anything related to populist politics, ie immigration, if there’s a large otherwise malleable cohort of public opinion whose mentality is to oppose whatever Trump is in favor of.

    At any rate… do we have a choice, but support Trump AND try to keep him along the right path? Not many others will, specially not those near him. He wasn’t even a politician less than 3 years ago, so on one hand he has the popular upper hand, on the other he’s had to barely learn to deal with government bureaucrats that hate him anyway.

    I think so. We should be building up the GOP as “our team”, not least in our own minds, instead of being held hostage to whatever tactical mistakes or personal failings are associated with Trump.

    In particular, we have to be able to unwind the cult of the Presidency, just like we unwound the cult of the experts and political establishment to support Trump in the first place. The institutional GOP is capable of projecting longevity, competence and good character whereas Trump is not. So we should be trying to associate ourselves with them instead.

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  175. bored identity will fix it for you , Uncle Sailer:

    “a dog-whistle-eared copy of The Bell Curve

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  176. @dfordoom

    But Islam is the single most incompatible ideology with our Western values.
     
    Western values? You mean like promoting homosexuality? Turning marriage into a sad joke. Free access to pornography. Celebrity worship. The slaughter of inconvenient unborn children. Believing that people can magically change sex at will and that there are fifty-seven different genders. Trash culture. Or perhaps you're referring to the worship of consumerism?

    If those are western values the sooner they're destroyed the better.

    Well, ‘Western Values’ of the second half of the 20th century.

    You are right that degeneracy has eroded that, and the culprit is female suffrage, rather than skilled immigration (which only became significant much later).

    There are plenty of Western guys who secretly hope that Islam, for all its horrors, puts feminism in its place.

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    • Replies: @J.Ross

    There are plenty of Western guys who secretly hope that Islam, for all its horrors, puts feminism in its place.
     
    Compelling source, rishi. Telling figures indeed.
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  177. @J.Ross
    There was an SNL skit back when the great Phil Hartman graced the earth that exonerated Reagan of personal responsibility in the Iran-Contra mess on the grounds that he would have to be a different person than the dodderer we saw on TV. It looked pretty much as you describe. One of the proofs of media bias is that a truly objective SNL should be able to whip out a touch-up of an old favorite, change a couple of details and names and it's the same sketch, but they will never question the Decism that Russians come out from under their bed every night to artificially age them.

    I had forgotten about that sketch, but you’re right. You’re also right about the late Phil Hartman being a great comedic actor. He never gets the credit he deserves in SNL retrospectives.

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  178. @Whiskey
    Feynman is exhibit A on why high IQ for males is a turn off ... in peace time. What do women want (in having a man get them pregnant lets say?) Its Tavon White not Richard Feynman. Women want (this is empirical evidence) the spawn of killers. Its simple primate dominance 101 and the tragedy of modern life is that wealth and security is built on really eliminating raw Male dominance as much as possible because a nation of Trayvon Martins creates at best Lagos and at worst General Butt Naked. Nigeria sort of works with Western aid and lots of oil revenues, places like Ivory Coast and Liberia fall into Lord of the Flies. But hey women find that sexy. [Nikolas de Jesus Cruz now has thousands of teen girls sending him love letters.]

    Trump? He's been an unmitigated disaster and it would have been better if the she-beast Hillary! had won. Trump has only made elites and every pussy-hat wearing woman (which is most of them) and non-Whites furiously angry while doing nothing to push ordinary White men into power. Or even improving their station and status in life. AFTER Trump we have been deluged with articles openly calling for elimination of White men and I am predicting some media outlet will run an article calling for active violent genocide against White men. Don't kid yourself White women will be all over that like teen girls over a school shooter killer.

    Mueller is likely going to put every nasty thing he can find in Cohen's private files into the media through friendly leaks, the Blue Wave will collaborate with B*tch McConnell and Paul Patsy Ryan to both impeach and convict Trump (and Pence) and install ...

    That's where it gets interesting. Will it be Speaker Nancy Palsi? Or crazy Maxine Waters as a place holder for Kamala Harris? Or a Hillary Restoration, don't laugh Hillary has the support that matters. Not you deplorables but the thousands of journalists and hundreds of FBI/DOJ spouses on her payroll, like a Junior Soros out of Arkansas.

    And a President Hillary, vengeful and angry at White men in general, will not be a pretty sight. There will be ZERO checks and balances against the Cankles of Death, and Executive Order 666 demanding immediate castration of all Straight White men is likely on her agenda Day 1 (I'm only slightly kidding on that one -- only slightly). Bill will probably be the first to go.

    Look, what matters is not the Constitution (might as well wipe your ass with it as it has as much meaning as toilet paper) or institutions or the law or votes or the people. Its POWER in various machine organizations the Clintons run, grifters like Al Sharpton, Oligarchs like Bezos, Zuck, and Gates, and the pussy hat brigade driven by sexual resentment (at getting older and less hot, at not landing that Alpha male, at being looked at by beta males the latter infuriating to women).

    This is why I pray for war, NOW. A big, nasty war that requires massive mobilization and shoves aside the Hillary/Zuck/Bezos nexus by the only boys big enough to shove them off the playground -- the military industrial complex.

    We've tried peace and got thirty years of Hate Whitey and Hate HATE HATE White males. Give War a chance. Its easy if you try. Peace is over. If you want it.

    In case you haven’t noticed, America has been at war since 2003.

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    • Replies: @L Woods
    Yeah. This new war hobbyhorse of his lately is weird. He should stick to the corrosive perfidy of women — that one’s indubitable and eternal.
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  179. @Thomm

    WNs frankly recognize the superior natural merit of white racial aesthetics in general.
     
    Yes, if you count the top 80% of whites, and exclude the bottom 20%, which is a defective subrace where the genetic waste matter collects.

    Remember, white variance is very high. The bottom quintile is inferior to the top four quintiles by a greater degree than is found in any other race.

    About this bottom 20% that comprises waste matter :

    The men become WNs.
    The women become fat bluehaired feminists.

    So when you see an attractive white person (i.e. my race), remember that you have no more in common with them than a mangy feral dog has with a Kodiak Bear.

    I still wonder if you WN losers will ever figure out why you can't vocalize WN views even in a bar in Idaho or Montana that is 100% white. We want to keep the waste matter out.

    You can’t vocalize your views in polite company either though

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  180. @TTSSYF
    His boorish behavior has been egged on by the Left and Never Trumpers in their unwillingness to accept the results of the election and ride it out until 2020, when they can make another run for the White House. A not-so-silent coup has been underway ever since 11/9/2017. I don't think he'd be quite so boorish if he were being allowed to govern and not being assailed from all directions.

    Like many others, it's been my belief for years that we've been letting in too many of the wrong people (lower IQ and/or congenital Leftists) and have mis-educated the native born (an incredible number of young people, albeit more women than men, ascribe to socialism) and have changed the character of the country, likely irreversibly. It's a tragedy but perhaps unavoidable. The global forces pushing the "blank slate" theory being played out in Europe, Australia, Canada, and the U.S. are too great, and those pushing it are too unwilling to be reasonable for there to be any resolution other than their outright defeat...and that very well may mean war.

    I agree on all points.

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  181. @BB753
    In case you haven't noticed, America has been at war since 2003.

    Yeah. This new war hobbyhorse of his lately is weird. He should stick to the corrosive perfidy of women — that one’s indubitable and eternal.

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  182. @dfordoom

    True. It is why they work so hard to get gun confiscation implemented.
     
    This is why American democracy is doomed. American right-wingers can't think of anything but their beloved guns. Guns are the answer to everything, even though strangely enough guns have not been able to prevent all your freedoms from being taken away from you one by one, and have not been able to prevent your political system from becoming the most corrupted on the planet, and have not slowed down your transformation into a totalitarianism. But guns are powerful magic ju-ju!

    I bet all those non-gunnut Russian peasants wished they would’ve had guns when it came time to be shipped off to the gulags.

    When that time comes here, and it is coming, us gunnuts will be the only thing between life and mass extermination. You would do well to read up on some actual history before regurgitating your nonsense on this site.

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  183. @Thomm
    Well, 'Western Values' of the second half of the 20th century.

    You are right that degeneracy has eroded that, and the culprit is female suffrage, rather than skilled immigration (which only became significant much later).

    There are plenty of Western guys who secretly hope that Islam, for all its horrors, puts feminism in its place.

    There are plenty of Western guys who secretly hope that Islam, for all its horrors, puts feminism in its place.

    Compelling source, rishi. Telling figures indeed.

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  184. Anonymous[680] • Disclaimer says:
    @Citizen of a Silly Country
    Well, an immigration policy - any immigration policy outside of accepting anyone and everyone - could lead to another voyage of the St. Louis for a certain group.

    Sure, there's a homeland now, but you never know. Best to multiple back-up plans, and that means every country should allow in refugees and anyone showing up at their door. Just in case.

    That’s right. There’s no Jewish conspiracy to flood the West with brown people. There is however a determination to keep all borders unconditionally open. For a people who live scattered across the world, this is the paramount issue.

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    • Replies: @J.Ross

    There’s no Jewish conspiracy to flood the West with brown people.
     
    That's true, to be a conspiracy it would have to be secret and illegal.
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  185. Anonymous[680] • Disclaimer says:
    @Taysse
    Just in the last thirty years, Canada’s host white European population has declined from its historically steady 90%+ to close to 75%. In powerhouse provinces like BC and Ontario, it’s down closer to two thirds and in TO and Vancouver we’re talking 50%. And that demographic trend is accelerating. Well before century’s end, the host and founding population of this country will be a minority, with Asian and African groups forming the majority. We’re supposed to welcome this national transformation because it is good for the national IQ? The way they are presently rewriting Canadian history to make it sound like it has always been a multicultural country or even (according to Prof. Henry Yu at UBC) that the Chinese were one of the founding people and English is a white supremacist language, certainly doesn’t sound like they are writing for a high IQ audience.

    Every immigrant group writes itself into the history of its new nation. It’s pointless getting indignant over this. If you don’t want foreigners rewriting your history, don’t let them settle in your country in anything but token numbers.

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  186. @Anonymous
    That's right. There's no Jewish conspiracy to flood the West with brown people. There is however a determination to keep all borders unconditionally open. For a people who live scattered across the world, this is the paramount issue.

    There’s no Jewish conspiracy to flood the West with brown people.

    That’s true, to be a conspiracy it would have to be secret and illegal.

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