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From the NYT:

Gay Pastor Apologizes After Accusing Whole Foods of Writing Slur on Chocolate Cake
By MIKE McPHATE MAY 16, 2016

The case of the chocolate cake slur, it seems, was simply a hoax.

An openly gay Texas pastor who had accused Whole Foods of defacing his cake with an anti-gay slur dropped his lawsuit against the grocery chain on Monday, issuing an apology that said he was wrong to “perpetuate this story.”

“The company did nothing wrong,” the pastor, Jordan Brown, said in a statement. “I was wrong to pursue this matter and use the media to perpetuate this story.”

He also apologized to the lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender community “for diverting attention from real issues.”

Hate hoaxes are a real issue.

Whole Foods had forcefully rejected the accusations by Mr. Brown, 31, who claimed that he had bought a frosted cake from a store in Austin, Tex., and asked that the words “Love Wins” be written in icing on top — only to discover while driving away that a slur had been added.

Mr. Brown’s apology represented a remarkable about-face from his remarks last month, delivered at a news conference alongside his lawyer, during which he choked back tears as he told the story.

“For me, it was humiliating,” he said then, “because being a pastor who is also openly gay, I’ve had to deal with this in the past and literally the feeling that I had just resurfaced a bunch of painful memories of things that have happened to me.”

But a day after Mr. Brown’s legal salvo, Whole Foods denounced the pastor as a fraud, vowing to press a countersuit that sought $100,000. At the same time, the grocery chain released surveillance footage of Mr. Brown’s purchase that it said proved that the cake had not been tampered with.

Whole Foods said in a statement on Monday that it would drop its lawsuit.

“We’re very pleased that the truth has come to light,” it said. “Given Mr. Brown’s apology and public admission that his story was a complete fabrication, we see no reason to move forward with our countersuit to defend the integrity of our brand and team members.”

The case of the anti-gay cake slur had captivated the Texas capital, where Whole Foods is based, as thousands of people debated the evidence on social media and in comment threads on The Austin-American Statesman.

Is there any existing criminal law under which hate hoaxes could be prosecuted? If not, should there be a law against hate scams?

Clearly, our cultural is vulnerable to hate fraud by people looking for money, fame, and/or to spread hatred of disfavored groups such as straights.

 
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  1. Since when did Black churches accept openly LGBT pastors? I blame it on the crossdressing Madea films.

    • Replies: @Ed
    They don't but the black community is also riddled with one man church operations that are basically scams. I suspect he's one of them. He's probably just starting out hence the hoax for attention.
    , @Don't Look at Me
    Probably got it by mail order or on the internet.
    , @Clyde

    Since when did Black churches accept openly LGBT pastors? I blame it on the crossdressing Madea films.
     
    I didn't know he was a black and gay twofer. I glanced at previous photos and he looked white. But you are correct about this hate cake hoaxer. This greedy goofball needs *the law* after his sorry butt, but looks doubtful. Whole Foods figures it will lose in the court of public opinion if they push it.
    , @Triumph104
    He has a gay church not a black church, two different things.

    He used to hold services in the community room of his apartment complex.
  2. A fraud wrapped in a hoax inside a light crust of stupidity.

    Yes. Because our easily peeved are cocked for overreaction, and catastrophes that can result (ask the UVa frat) illegalize them.

  3. jtgw says: • Website

    Prosecution seems like overkill, especially in light of the fact that Whole Foods was not facing criminal charges to begin with. They were sued, launched a countersuit, then after the first suit was dropped and an apology was issued, they dropped the countersuit. I honestly don’t see the need to pursue this further.

    • Replies: @Forbes
    Loser-pays in civil lawsuits would help lessen such nonsense. Too many businesses settle frivolous lawsuits out of court because it's cheaper than a trial.
    , @Superman

    I honestly don’t see the need to pursue this further.
     
    Pursue this further to discourage future hate hoaxes.
    , @ziel
    using the judicial system under false pretenses seems like something that should be strongly discourages and thus should be punished.
    , @Anon
    Whole Foods probably didn't want the stigma of prosecuting someone who was gay. The problem is, if scammers get caught and realize that all they have to do to avoid trouble is apologize, then they won't quit. You need to start making examples out of these crooks and sticking them in jail to make them stop. People who have decided to scam don't just do it once. If it pays off, they'll do it again. A lot scammers try to do their work below the media radar so they don't become notorious enough to be found out. They target small businesses instead of nationally known companies, and the lawsuit may not even make the local paper.

    Do you know how many people run car accident insurance scams? Mountains of them.

    , @fish

    I honestly don’t see the need to pursue this further.
     
    I'm guessing that you don't find yourself routinely targeted by these assholes. If I was Whole Foods I would break this guy!

    I'd file a countersuit that would make the rubble bounce!
    , @Danindc
    Then you can expect many more hate hoaxes. Why not roll the dice if there are no consequences?
    , @Buffalo Joe
    jtgw, I'm cool with that and for what it's worth I apologize for slavery .....there, now everything is good. Boy, that was easy.
    , @pepperinmono
    Deterrence?
    , @AndrewR
    Pour encourager les autres.
    , @Brutusale
    Would you be willing to stipulate that Whole Foods lost a certain amount of business due to this hoax? Where's their remedy for loss of trade?
    , @Bren
    The lawyers won. Who cares about the legal expense incurred by Whole Foods? They can pass it on to their customers.
  4. He acknowledged his actions, but did he actually apologize?

    He sounds mentally unstable:

    “For me, it was humiliating,” he said then, “because being a pastor who is also openly gay, I’ve had to deal with this in the past and literally the feeling that I had just resurfaced a bunch of painful memories of things that have happened to me.”

    Apparently, self-inflicted fake accusations are humiliating and painful–because he’s had to deal with self-inflicted fake accusations, in the past.

    • Replies: @yaqub the mad scientist
    It's like Sabrina Rubin Erdely - apologizing to the "allies" for distracting and trivializing their cause. It's almost like they're reporting back to HQ: "The assault failed, sir".
  5. A fraud wrapped in a hoax inside a light crust of stupidity.

    Yes. Because our easily peeved are cocked for overreaction, and catastrophes can result (ask the UVa frat), illegalize them.

  6. @jtgw
    Prosecution seems like overkill, especially in light of the fact that Whole Foods was not facing criminal charges to begin with. They were sued, launched a countersuit, then after the first suit was dropped and an apology was issued, they dropped the countersuit. I honestly don't see the need to pursue this further.

    Loser-pays in civil lawsuits would help lessen such nonsense. Too many businesses settle frivolous lawsuits out of court because it’s cheaper than a trial.

    • Replies: @jtgw
    That makes more sense than prosecution. Do we know whether this hoaxer has paid for the court's time?
    , @ben tillman

    Loser-pays in civil lawsuits would help lessen such nonsense. Too many businesses settle frivolous lawsuits out of court because it’s cheaper than a trial.
     
    Loser-pays is unacceptable because the winner's lawyers inflate their fess by 150-500%.
    , @WGG
    Texas is a loser pays state- for a couple of years now. Our personal injury lawsuits are out of control.
    , @slumber_j
    Loser-pays has always seemed great to me, and if the lawyers inflate their fees as ben tillman says, that's the losers problem to sort out with them and the relevant Bar Assn.

    But I would go further: punitive damages go to the State--or in any case not to the plaintiff.

    Plaintiffs should of course be fully compensated for any and all damages, not all of which are tangible. But punitive damages are supposed to act as a deterrent, not a winning lottery ticket. They should go to society at large; perhaps plaintiffs could have the option of designating a charity.
    , @Jim Don Bob
    Never gonna happen. The Trial Lawyers Association, which renamed itself Lawyers for Justice or something, is a huge contributor to the Democrats.
  7. @jtgw
    Prosecution seems like overkill, especially in light of the fact that Whole Foods was not facing criminal charges to begin with. They were sued, launched a countersuit, then after the first suit was dropped and an apology was issued, they dropped the countersuit. I honestly don't see the need to pursue this further.

    I honestly don’t see the need to pursue this further.

    Pursue this further to discourage future hate hoaxes.

    • Agree: San Fernando Curt, TWS, NickG
  8. I guess it’s not really slander/libel if the fraudster recants. This cultural obsession has of course long since set off an arms race of expensively documenting & detailing how one’s valuable corporation Is Not Racist, not to mention the cost of retaining counsel. Big business wins again.

    Are there pro bono hate-fraud defense outfits?

    • Replies: @Big Bill
    Whether he recants or not, he has caused reputational injury. He has confessed to defamation ... sort of. Since it was both written (his slanderous Youtube) and spoken (libel) he is guilty of both.

    Confessing to your crimes does not absolve you of guilt.
  9. @jtgw
    Prosecution seems like overkill, especially in light of the fact that Whole Foods was not facing criminal charges to begin with. They were sued, launched a countersuit, then after the first suit was dropped and an apology was issued, they dropped the countersuit. I honestly don't see the need to pursue this further.

    using the judicial system under false pretenses seems like something that should be strongly discourages and thus should be punished.

    • Replies: @EriK
    I agree. Fools that after the fact say "hey, no harm no foul" underestimate the harm. There should be consequences.
    , @Jim Don Bob
    I have seen news reports where some women who have filed false rape reports have been charged for just that -- filing a false report. This probably varies by jurisdiction, but I do not think there was any police involvement here.

    Looks like straight up extortion to me, but I think Whole Foods vigorously defending itself by counter suing may sober up some of these morons. He was probably expecting them to roll over and offer him $$ just to go away. Kudos to WF.
    , @NOTA
    Filing a false police report can get you in some (fairly minor, I think) kind of triuble with the law. But if it's just you telling lies to the media or your friends, there isn't and shouldn't be a crime involved with that. The target of your fraudulent accusations can sue you for slander or libel, though.
  10. Anon • Disclaimer says:
    @jtgw
    Prosecution seems like overkill, especially in light of the fact that Whole Foods was not facing criminal charges to begin with. They were sued, launched a countersuit, then after the first suit was dropped and an apology was issued, they dropped the countersuit. I honestly don't see the need to pursue this further.

    Whole Foods probably didn’t want the stigma of prosecuting someone who was gay. The problem is, if scammers get caught and realize that all they have to do to avoid trouble is apologize, then they won’t quit. You need to start making examples out of these crooks and sticking them in jail to make them stop. People who have decided to scam don’t just do it once. If it pays off, they’ll do it again. A lot scammers try to do their work below the media radar so they don’t become notorious enough to be found out. They target small businesses instead of nationally known companies, and the lawsuit may not even make the local paper.

    Do you know how many people run car accident insurance scams? Mountains of them.

  11. @ziel
    using the judicial system under false pretenses seems like something that should be strongly discourages and thus should be punished.

    I agree. Fools that after the fact say “hey, no harm no foul” underestimate the harm. There should be consequences.

    • Replies: @Buffalo Joe
    EriK, So true, how many people believed the original, trumpeted story, but never heard of the recant. Damage was done.
  12. As to whether criminal charges are appropriate, it depends on whether the complaint was signed under penalty of perjury. Certainly not, however, because otherwise the People would prosecute.

    In most jurisdictions this complaint constitutes instituting a (now admittedly) frivolous lawsuit, which is subject to monetary sanctions on motion by the defendant.

    If Whole Foods has abandoned this remedy, there was no doubt a deal made not to pursue it in exchange for the “pastor’s” admission.

    [Based on personal experience (including clinical experience), I think male homosexuals are prone to lie capriciously.]

    • Replies: @jtgw
    Who is paying the legal expenses? That is the main concern for me.
  13. @ziel
    using the judicial system under false pretenses seems like something that should be strongly discourages and thus should be punished.

    I have seen news reports where some women who have filed false rape reports have been charged for just that — filing a false report. This probably varies by jurisdiction, but I do not think there was any police involvement here.

    Looks like straight up extortion to me, but I think Whole Foods vigorously defending itself by counter suing may sober up some of these morons. He was probably expecting them to roll over and offer him $$ just to go away. Kudos to WF.

  14. @jtgw
    Prosecution seems like overkill, especially in light of the fact that Whole Foods was not facing criminal charges to begin with. They were sued, launched a countersuit, then after the first suit was dropped and an apology was issued, they dropped the countersuit. I honestly don't see the need to pursue this further.

    I honestly don’t see the need to pursue this further.

    I’m guessing that you don’t find yourself routinely targeted by these assholes. If I was Whole Foods I would break this guy!

    I’d file a countersuit that would make the rubble bounce!

  15. @jtgw
    Prosecution seems like overkill, especially in light of the fact that Whole Foods was not facing criminal charges to begin with. They were sued, launched a countersuit, then after the first suit was dropped and an apology was issued, they dropped the countersuit. I honestly don't see the need to pursue this further.

    Then you can expect many more hate hoaxes. Why not roll the dice if there are no consequences?

  16. Gay man here; as part of the social compact for protecting gay people from targeted violence, I support punishing this hoaxer, possibly much more than he’d be punished for committing a hate crime.

    The legal reasoning for creating the category of hate crimes is that the crime is intended to hurt or terrorize an entire community. Their target extends beyond the immediate victim, much as terrorism is felt to be worse than conventional crime. The same reasoning must apply to hate hoaxes, which damage the reputation of the community and the credibility of reports of actual hate crime. Some research on the extent of the community-reputation damage done by high-profile hoaxes would help in determining an appropriate punishment, but it doesn’t seem impossible that hoaxes could have a much worse effect than actual hate crimes. Perhaps the death penalty would be appropriate.

    • Replies: @jtgw
    Yikes! Why can't he just be made to pay everyone's legal expenses?
    , @Big Bill
    If a black man starts deliberately spreading lies that crosses were being burned on Farmer Jones' hill, night riders were on the loose, and a noose was hanging from his oak tree one morning, he should be prosecuted for hate crimes/racial intimidation.

    At the very least, he spread his lies hoping to scare the crap out of black folks and should be punished for it. I don't care if his "real" motive was to "increase solidarity" of black folks, to get back at his black in-laws, to shake down some college for money or anything else. The deliberate goal was fear.

    And as long as we are forced to pretend (at a societal level) that loops of string on doorknobs = nooses = masses of terrified, squealing, ululating Negros, then by god let the black sumbitches who pull these stunts go to prison for a good long time.
    , @SFG
    Ah, now you know how Lot, International Jew, and Jewish Conservative Race Realist felt when Pollard got caught. ;)

    Seriously, we can't be giving out the death penalty for crap like this. At least some jail time does seem appropriate for filing an admittedly frivolous lawsuit.
    , @TWS
    Death penalty? Unless you're joking you have your priorities entirely messed up. This isn't important enough to kill anyone over. It isn't important enough for anything except for civil penalties.

    The dollar amount is probably such that he should be counter sued. That is it. If however, he was reporting a crime he should be criminally prosecuted because of false reporting.
  17. Jordan Brown is , in fact, brown, mixed race, coloured, African-American. Whatever you want to call it.
    For those without Daily Mail television, there are times you must spell it out to us, Mr Steve.

  18. I honestly don’t see the need to pursue this further.

    I’m guessing that you don’t find yourself routinely targeted by these assholes. If I was Whole Foods I would break this guy!

    I’d file a countersuit that would make the rubble bounce!

    I agree with this. And I’m glad you read Steve Sailer, Mr. Trump.

    Btw, there is an analysis that says 75% of your tweets end with an exclamation. Glad you carry on that tradition here. http://www.vox.com/2016/5/16/11603854/donald-trump-twitter?utm_campaign=vox.social&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter

  19. The idea that a Whole Foods bakery in Austin, TX would be a hotbed of homophobia strained credulity to begin with. Imagine if it were a mom & pop bakery without surveillance cameras in, say, Dallas? They might have found it harder to fight a false claim like this.

    • Replies: @fish

    The idea that a Whole Foods bakery in Austin, TX would be a hotbed of homophobia strained credulity to begin with.
     
    Another reason to countersue this asshole! Stupid should hurt!
    , @Daniel Williams

    Imagine if it were a mom & pop bakery without surveillance cameras in, say, Dallas? They might have found it harder to fight a false claim like this.
     
    Mom & pop operations aren't as likely to be the targets of one. They're generally not perceived as having deep pockets. "Pastor" Brown was in this for the duckets.
    , @Bard of Bumperstickers
    That was my first thought when the story broke. That pastor is clearly missing a few yogurt-dipped raisins from his organic trail mix. It's just another indicator of a top in the "peak-absurdity" market, such as Islamophobia causing global warming (Google it.). Maybe a bull market in common sense is brewing?
    , @Mr. Anon
    "The idea that a Whole Foods bakery in Austin, TX would be a hotbed of homophobia strained credulity to begin with. "

    Yes, that alone is a dead giveaway that it was a hoax.
    , @NOTA
    They would also have been a less juicy target, though they might have been hounded for awhile by hostile press or a twitterstorm.
  20. @Dave Pinsen
    The idea that a Whole Foods bakery in Austin, TX would be a hotbed of homophobia strained credulity to begin with. Imagine if it were a mom & pop bakery without surveillance cameras in, say, Dallas? They might have found it harder to fight a false claim like this.

    The idea that a Whole Foods bakery in Austin, TX would be a hotbed of homophobia strained credulity to begin with.

    Another reason to countersue this asshole! Stupid should hurt!

    • Replies: @Olorin
    Come now.

    If WF went after Pastor Open Doors and his cake wreck* then every liberal in Austin would get furious at them for picking on someone they well know, deep down, to be mentally ill.

    And that is a far far far worse category of offense in their minds than WF's other bad-doings.

    The #1 capacity required to be a lib/prog these days is subtext, oozing between layers of overt or covert mendacity. Religio-social baklava, sticky and gooey and sprinkled with nuts.

    *Cake Wrecks dot com gave this story a pass. Pity.
  21. @Forbes
    Loser-pays in civil lawsuits would help lessen such nonsense. Too many businesses settle frivolous lawsuits out of court because it's cheaper than a trial.

    That makes more sense than prosecution. Do we know whether this hoaxer has paid for the court’s time?

  22. @Stephen R. Diamond
    As to whether criminal charges are appropriate, it depends on whether the complaint was signed under penalty of perjury. Certainly not, however, because otherwise the People would prosecute.

    In most jurisdictions this complaint constitutes instituting a (now admittedly) frivolous lawsuit, which is subject to monetary sanctions on motion by the defendant.

    If Whole Foods has abandoned this remedy, there was no doubt a deal made not to pursue it in exchange for the "pastor's" admission.

    [Based on personal experience (including clinical experience), I think male homosexuals are prone to lie capriciously.]

    Who is paying the legal expenses? That is the main concern for me.

  23. @frizzled
    Gay man here; as part of the social compact for protecting gay people from targeted violence, I support punishing this hoaxer, possibly much more than he'd be punished for committing a hate crime.

    The legal reasoning for creating the category of hate crimes is that the crime is intended to hurt or terrorize an entire community. Their target extends beyond the immediate victim, much as terrorism is felt to be worse than conventional crime. The same reasoning must apply to hate hoaxes, which damage the reputation of the community and the credibility of reports of actual hate crime. Some research on the extent of the community-reputation damage done by high-profile hoaxes would help in determining an appropriate punishment, but it doesn't seem impossible that hoaxes could have a much worse effect than actual hate crimes. Perhaps the death penalty would be appropriate.

    Yikes! Why can’t he just be made to pay everyone’s legal expenses?

    • Replies: @Citizen of a Silly Country
    Because he was making an accusation that likely cost WF hundreds of thousands (if not millions) in sales. If he had gotten away with his hoax, there's little doubt that WF's reputation would have been tarnished for years, again causing the loss of millions of dollars.

    WF should be allowed to destroy this guy financially, including garnishing future wages because he nearly cost them millions. What's the difference if the guy managed to destroy a million dollars worth of WF inventory? Nothing, except in that case he would go to prison. In this case, you can't send him to prison so you should be able to bankrupt him.

    That would send a clear message to other hoaxers.

    Sicking evil lawyers on people works, just ask the ACLU.

  24. @Dave Pinsen
    The idea that a Whole Foods bakery in Austin, TX would be a hotbed of homophobia strained credulity to begin with. Imagine if it were a mom & pop bakery without surveillance cameras in, say, Dallas? They might have found it harder to fight a false claim like this.

    Imagine if it were a mom & pop bakery without surveillance cameras in, say, Dallas? They might have found it harder to fight a false claim like this.

    Mom & pop operations aren’t as likely to be the targets of one. They’re generally not perceived as having deep pockets. “Pastor” Brown was in this for the duckets.

    • Replies: @Charles Erwin Wilson

    “Pastor” Brown was in this for the duckets.
     
    Shouldn't that be the "Tubmans?" (cf. our Dear Leader)
  25. @jtgw
    Prosecution seems like overkill, especially in light of the fact that Whole Foods was not facing criminal charges to begin with. They were sued, launched a countersuit, then after the first suit was dropped and an apology was issued, they dropped the countersuit. I honestly don't see the need to pursue this further.

    jtgw, I’m cool with that and for what it’s worth I apologize for slavery …..there, now everything is good. Boy, that was easy.

  26. @EriK
    I agree. Fools that after the fact say "hey, no harm no foul" underestimate the harm. There should be consequences.

    EriK, So true, how many people believed the original, trumpeted story, but never heard of the recant. Damage was done.

  27. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    The SUNY Albany hate hoaxers were recently expelled and charged with “false reporting”, among other charges:

    http://www.businessinsider.com/suny-albany-students-expelled-2016-5

    In this case, the hate hoax is sort of being prosecuted under “false reporting”, because the hoax involved an accusation of an alleged crime, which turned out to be knowingly false. But false reporting of crimes is a crime itself, so it’s being prosecuted, whereas as far as I know, writing gay slurs on cakes is not a crime, and thus reporting it as a crime would technically not fall under false reporting of crimes.

    • Replies: @Big Bill

    In this case, the hate hoax is sort of being prosecuted under “false reporting”, because the hoax involved an accusation of an alleged crime, which turned out to be knowingly false
     
    I expect there are hate crime statutes that multiply the punishment if the criminal act was done with the intention to racially intimidate a group of people, which the false reporting was clearly intended to do.

    They wanted to scare the crap out of black folks and scare them from using public facilities (ie the Albany city buses) thereby denying them their civil rights. There ought to be a way to generate a Section 1983 claim against them.
  28. • Replies: @WGG
    Lie. The young, straight female from the article looks nothing like a man, female impersonator or otherwise. Her features and body are soft and round, very female. She "didn't report it" yet went seeking attention afterward. But the most damping evidence that this is yet another hoax is that she is quoted as saying she "could see why they thought she was trans." Hell no. A straight woman whose looks/ value were aggressively undermined by a stranger in public would not be like, "yeah I'm pretty ugly and mannish".

    "You look like a man" is an insult I have heard hurled between fighting teenage girls and it was the insult which caused most offense. Only calling a girl fat to her face, which is almost never done, is worse in their minds.
  29. @Smitty
    I guess it's not really slander/libel if the fraudster recants. This cultural obsession has of course long since set off an arms race of expensively documenting & detailing how one's valuable corporation Is Not Racist, not to mention the cost of retaining counsel. Big business wins again.

    Are there pro bono hate-fraud defense outfits?

    Whether he recants or not, he has caused reputational injury. He has confessed to defamation … sort of. Since it was both written (his slanderous Youtube) and spoken (libel) he is guilty of both.

    Confessing to your crimes does not absolve you of guilt.

  30. Why can’t perpetrators of hoaxes be prosecuted under offences such as fraud, defamation, or even incitement to violence or religious/racial/etc. hatred? Is there some “good intentions can have negative consequences” legal effect that I’m not aware of?

  31. The Gay Black pastor broke one of The Ten Commandments, which is thou shall not bear false witness.

  32. @Dave Pinsen
    The idea that a Whole Foods bakery in Austin, TX would be a hotbed of homophobia strained credulity to begin with. Imagine if it were a mom & pop bakery without surveillance cameras in, say, Dallas? They might have found it harder to fight a false claim like this.

    That was my first thought when the story broke. That pastor is clearly missing a few yogurt-dipped raisins from his organic trail mix. It’s just another indicator of a top in the “peak-absurdity” market, such as Islamophobia causing global warming (Google it.). Maybe a bull market in common sense is brewing?

  33. @jtgw
    Prosecution seems like overkill, especially in light of the fact that Whole Foods was not facing criminal charges to begin with. They were sued, launched a countersuit, then after the first suit was dropped and an apology was issued, they dropped the countersuit. I honestly don't see the need to pursue this further.

    Deterrence?

  34. @jtgw
    Yikes! Why can't he just be made to pay everyone's legal expenses?

    Because he was making an accusation that likely cost WF hundreds of thousands (if not millions) in sales. If he had gotten away with his hoax, there’s little doubt that WF’s reputation would have been tarnished for years, again causing the loss of millions of dollars.

    WF should be allowed to destroy this guy financially, including garnishing future wages because he nearly cost them millions. What’s the difference if the guy managed to destroy a million dollars worth of WF inventory? Nothing, except in that case he would go to prison. In this case, you can’t send him to prison so you should be able to bankrupt him.

    That would send a clear message to other hoaxers.

    Sicking evil lawyers on people works, just ask the ACLU.

  35. Anent the TG Confrontation in CT:

    “This same thing happened in the 1960s when black people wanted to use the same bathrooms as white people,” she said in the video. “This is nothing different. History repeats itself.”

    What did I tell you? Civil Rights Re-enactors.

    Perhaps iSteve may choose to comment on the latest in “misogyny”: an LA weather girl who was forced to put on a sweater, because she’s so darn cute. This, too, is being blamed on teh patriarchy:

    http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2016/05/15/ktla_reporter_liberte_chan_forced_to_put_on_sweater_live_on_air.html

    In reality, both of these cases are about women, and about women who are having trouble coping with other women who are better looking than they are, on the one hand, and women who aren’t even women but who want to pretend that they are.

    I think we should support modern women to work it out, all by themselves.

    Justice Kennedy’s future supreme court decision: “The Constitution promises liberty to all within its reach, a liberty that includes certain specific rights that allow persons, within a lawful realm, to define and express their identity by relieving their bladder and bowels in a place of their own choosing.”

  36. @frizzled
    Gay man here; as part of the social compact for protecting gay people from targeted violence, I support punishing this hoaxer, possibly much more than he'd be punished for committing a hate crime.

    The legal reasoning for creating the category of hate crimes is that the crime is intended to hurt or terrorize an entire community. Their target extends beyond the immediate victim, much as terrorism is felt to be worse than conventional crime. The same reasoning must apply to hate hoaxes, which damage the reputation of the community and the credibility of reports of actual hate crime. Some research on the extent of the community-reputation damage done by high-profile hoaxes would help in determining an appropriate punishment, but it doesn't seem impossible that hoaxes could have a much worse effect than actual hate crimes. Perhaps the death penalty would be appropriate.

    If a black man starts deliberately spreading lies that crosses were being burned on Farmer Jones’ hill, night riders were on the loose, and a noose was hanging from his oak tree one morning, he should be prosecuted for hate crimes/racial intimidation.

    At the very least, he spread his lies hoping to scare the crap out of black folks and should be punished for it. I don’t care if his “real” motive was to “increase solidarity” of black folks, to get back at his black in-laws, to shake down some college for money or anything else. The deliberate goal was fear.

    And as long as we are forced to pretend (at a societal level) that loops of string on doorknobs = nooses = masses of terrified, squealing, ululating Negros, then by god let the black sumbitches who pull these stunts go to prison for a good long time.

  37. @frizzled
    Gay man here; as part of the social compact for protecting gay people from targeted violence, I support punishing this hoaxer, possibly much more than he'd be punished for committing a hate crime.

    The legal reasoning for creating the category of hate crimes is that the crime is intended to hurt or terrorize an entire community. Their target extends beyond the immediate victim, much as terrorism is felt to be worse than conventional crime. The same reasoning must apply to hate hoaxes, which damage the reputation of the community and the credibility of reports of actual hate crime. Some research on the extent of the community-reputation damage done by high-profile hoaxes would help in determining an appropriate punishment, but it doesn't seem impossible that hoaxes could have a much worse effect than actual hate crimes. Perhaps the death penalty would be appropriate.

    Ah, now you know how Lot, International Jew, and Jewish Conservative Race Realist felt when Pollard got caught. 😉

    Seriously, we can’t be giving out the death penalty for crap like this. At least some jail time does seem appropriate for filing an admittedly frivolous lawsuit.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    Seriously, we can’t be giving out the death penalty for crap like this. At least some jail time does seem appropriate for filing an admittedly frivolous lawsuit.
     
    Uh, jail time in Texas for this kind of creature basically is a death sentence.
  38. Anon • Disclaimer says:

    OT: Burlington College closes due to crushing debt loaded onto the college by Jane Sanders, Bernie Sanders’ wife. There are allegations that she committed fraud by insisting the college could pay the debt back when it couldn’t. She took a severance package and bolted after taking on all the debt.

    http://heatst.com/politics/breaking-burlington-college-closes-due-to-crushing-weight-of-debt-acquired-by-jane-sanders/

  39. @Forbes
    He acknowledged his actions, but did he actually apologize?

    He sounds mentally unstable:

    “For me, it was humiliating,” he said then, “because being a pastor who is also openly gay, I’ve had to deal with this in the past and literally the feeling that I had just resurfaced a bunch of painful memories of things that have happened to me.”
     
    Apparently, self-inflicted fake accusations are humiliating and painful--because he's had to deal with self-inflicted fake accusations, in the past.

    It’s like Sabrina Rubin Erdely – apologizing to the “allies” for distracting and trivializing their cause. It’s almost like they’re reporting back to HQ: “The assault failed, sir”.

  40. I notice that the majority of hate hoaxes in this country are committed by pre-1965 immigration act Nonwhites (African Americans) and not by post-1965 immigration act Nonwhites (Latinos and Asians).

    We know that most people who commit hate hoaxes are mentally unstable.

    Are African Americans on average just more likely to have mental issues than Asians and Latinos?

    • Replies: @Stan d Mute

    Are African Americans on average just more likely to have mental issues than Asians and Latinos?
     
    I've wondered for many years if there has been any study of the psychiatric effects of miscegenation. It's hard to imagine that two populations could follow substantially different evolutionary paths for 50,000-100,000 years and yet breed successfully and seamlessly just as if there had been no separation and no biological differences between them. I seem to recall seeing a study showing that American negroes do suffer higher rates of psychiatric disorder than do whites or Asians, but of course American negroes have a fairly high admixture of white European genes. So a more interesting question might be whether full blooded Africans have rates of disorder higher or lower than their cousins bred, born, and raised in America with their hybrid genotype.
  41. @Jefferson
    Since when did Black churches accept openly LGBT pastors? I blame it on the crossdressing Madea films.

    They don’t but the black community is also riddled with one man church operations that are basically scams. I suspect he’s one of them. He’s probably just starting out hence the hoax for attention.

    • Replies: @Barnard
    Another blogger looked into it and this one was also a scam. It is/was an independent church with an average attendance of about ten.
  42. Mental illness in the African American community is something no one on the Left wants to talk about. To them it is a taboo subject just like Black crime.

    • Replies: @Lurker

    Mental illness in the African American community is something no one on the Left wants to talk about.
     
    It gets traction here in the UK (or used to, Ive not been paying attention) but of course it is agreed that YT is to blame.
    , @Reg Cæsar

    Mental illness in the African American community is something no one on the Left wants to talk about.
     
    Mental illness in the Left is something no one in the African (or any other) American community wants to talk about. Four of the last five Democratic presidents were nutjobs. And the sane one was incompetent.
  43. Is there any existing criminal law under which hate hoaxes could be prosecuted?

    Assuming that the hoaxer had begun – or threatened to begin – legal proceedings (civil or criminal), or had committed the hoax with an intention that such proceedings would result, then it is definitely a crime. (That seems to be the case with this story.)

    The offences in Australia (and most other common-law jurisdictions) are attempting to pervert the course of justice and conspiracy to pervert the course of justice. Both are felony-level crimes with multi-year terms of imprisonment attached.

    I understand the corresponding offence in the US would be obstruction of justice.

  44. @Anonymous
    The SUNY Albany hate hoaxers were recently expelled and charged with "false reporting", among other charges:

    http://www.businessinsider.com/suny-albany-students-expelled-2016-5

    In this case, the hate hoax is sort of being prosecuted under "false reporting", because the hoax involved an accusation of an alleged crime, which turned out to be knowingly false. But false reporting of crimes is a crime itself, so it's being prosecuted, whereas as far as I know, writing gay slurs on cakes is not a crime, and thus reporting it as a crime would technically not fall under false reporting of crimes.

    In this case, the hate hoax is sort of being prosecuted under “false reporting”, because the hoax involved an accusation of an alleged crime, which turned out to be knowingly false

    I expect there are hate crime statutes that multiply the punishment if the criminal act was done with the intention to racially intimidate a group of people, which the false reporting was clearly intended to do.

    They wanted to scare the crap out of black folks and scare them from using public facilities (ie the Albany city buses) thereby denying them their civil rights. There ought to be a way to generate a Section 1983 claim against them.

  45. @jtgw
    Prosecution seems like overkill, especially in light of the fact that Whole Foods was not facing criminal charges to begin with. They were sued, launched a countersuit, then after the first suit was dropped and an apology was issued, they dropped the countersuit. I honestly don't see the need to pursue this further.

    Pour encourager les autres.

  46. Scott Sumner may have just given us the ultimate anti-Trump slogan: (cross-post of my comment at econlog):

    “Millions more people benefit from America’s far superior economic system, as compared to their home counties, even if America becomes slightly worse.”

    I thank Scott for giving us the honest anti-Trump slogan –

    “Immigration – Making America slightly* Worse!”

    *we hope

    http://econlog.econlib.org/archives/2016/05/the_alt-rights.html

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    Scott Sumner may have just given us the ultimate anti-Trump slogan:

    “Millions more people..."
     

    Who better to summon the world than a man whose very name means "summoner"?!
    , @Charles Erwin Wilson

    Immigration – Making America slightly* Worse!
     
    If it were only slightly!
  47. What are the chances a cake decorator that works in Whole Foods would have homophobic/aversion feelings to begin with? He made accusations against the very people that would probably stand with him had he accused another bakery. Whole Foods probably dropped the suit for PR reasons, too bad, he should be held accountable.

  48. @jtgw
    Prosecution seems like overkill, especially in light of the fact that Whole Foods was not facing criminal charges to begin with. They were sued, launched a countersuit, then after the first suit was dropped and an apology was issued, they dropped the countersuit. I honestly don't see the need to pursue this further.

    Would you be willing to stipulate that Whole Foods lost a certain amount of business due to this hoax? Where’s their remedy for loss of trade?

    • Replies: @TontoBubbaGoldstein
    While I think Whole Foods should treat the Right Reverend like Sherman treated South Carolina, I will not stipulate that Whole Foods had a net loss of business because of this hoax. Think Chic-Fil-A.
  49. This reminds me, the NYT is currently being sued for racism, sexism, and ageism by the older black females they allegedly discriminated against. Hannity was all over this today in response to the NYT’s piece on Trump’s supposed insensitivity to World War Body Image (which is itself unraveling as his “accusers” come forward and accuse NYT instead).

    I honestly don’t see the need to pursue this further.

    People should be punished for making false accusations, in a way commensurate with the punishment they were seeking to induce. E.g., the Whole Foods’ might seek a judgement based on what he was trying to extort from them.

    I wonder if his church has deep pockets?

    Or maybe just charge them with fraud or extortion. There are laws against fraud and extortion, right?

    Forbes, yes, at the very least, someone found to have deliberately brought false “charges” should have to pay the defendant’s cost of defense. That would be a good start.

    • Replies: @GW
    But who is the aggrieved party here? If his lawsuit got to the point of requiring a judge's time, then he should be forced to pay back the taxpayer. Criminal punishment seems excessive.

    The guy slandered Whole Foods not the people of Texas, and if the company wants to drop the matter that's its prerogative. While we may want to see a flaming SJW get his due, WF is wise to drop this. The guy is clearly mentally unstable, and events like this are rare enough that pressing the counter suit just to make a point doesn't make much sense.

    A good example of hate hoaxers getting prosecuted is those young female vibrants in Albany who lied to police, saying they were assaulted on a bus.
  50. When the chilrens concoct a fictitious person they call it “Catfishing”, as all iSteve readers will remember from the UVA rape hoax. Since many of these hoaxes are designed to gin up hatred, usually against whites, how about “Hate fishing”? When crackers are targeted or racial advantage is the goal of the hoax I have a personal preference for “white baiting”. I hereby give the NYT permission to run with it:)

  51. @Jefferson
    I notice that the majority of hate hoaxes in this country are committed by pre-1965 immigration act Nonwhites (African Americans) and not by post-1965 immigration act Nonwhites (Latinos and Asians).

    We know that most people who commit hate hoaxes are mentally unstable.

    Are African Americans on average just more likely to have mental issues than Asians and Latinos?

    Are African Americans on average just more likely to have mental issues than Asians and Latinos?

    I’ve wondered for many years if there has been any study of the psychiatric effects of miscegenation. It’s hard to imagine that two populations could follow substantially different evolutionary paths for 50,000-100,000 years and yet breed successfully and seamlessly just as if there had been no separation and no biological differences between them. I seem to recall seeing a study showing that American negroes do suffer higher rates of psychiatric disorder than do whites or Asians, but of course American negroes have a fairly high admixture of white European genes. So a more interesting question might be whether full blooded Africans have rates of disorder higher or lower than their cousins bred, born, and raised in America with their hybrid genotype.

    • Replies: @Jefferson
    "I’ve wondered for many years if there has been any study of the psychiatric effects of miscegenation. It’s hard to imagine that two populations could follow substantially different evolutionary paths for 50,000-100,000 years and yet breed successfully and seamlessly just as if there had been no separation and no biological differences between them. I seem to recall seeing a study showing that American negroes do suffer higher rates of psychiatric disorder than do whites or Asians, but of course American negroes have a fairly high admixture of white European genes. So a more interesting question might be whether full blooded Africans have rates of disorder higher or lower than their cousins bred, born, and raised in America with their hybrid genotype."

    Latinos are a highly racially miscegenated group, in fact even more so than African Americans who while mixed as well are still a predominantly Sub Saharan African group, since they average about 80 percent Sub Saharan African ancestry, so Mulatto would not be an accurate description to describe African Americans as a whole.

    The highly racially mixed Latinos commit hate hoaxes as well, but not at the same high rate that African Americans do.
  52. @Brutusale
    Would you be willing to stipulate that Whole Foods lost a certain amount of business due to this hoax? Where's their remedy for loss of trade?

    While I think Whole Foods should treat the Right Reverend like Sherman treated South Carolina, I will not stipulate that Whole Foods had a net loss of business because of this hoax. Think Chic-Fil-A.

  53. Under the Stolen Valor Act a loser can be prosecuted and sent to jail for the harmless prank of parading around in fake military regalia. I don’t see why malicious fraudsters like this pastor shouldn’t be prosecuted for the real harm that they cause to businesses, the owners of the businesses and the workers of the businesses.

    • Replies: @Chris Mallory

    Under the Stolen Valor Act a loser can be prosecuted and sent to jail for the harmless prank of parading around in fake military regalia.
     
    False. The original SVA was overturned by the Supreme Court. Congress went back in 2013 and pass another version that required the person falsely claiming military awards or service must do it for the purpose of fraud.
  54. In a small city where the cops mostly know each other, nobody wants to be that cop who wasted an afternoon arresting and taking statements from the 65 IQ teenager who really likes apples for stealing an apple or two from the little local grocery store. It is embarrassing to choose the “village idiot” as one’s adversary. Of course Whole Foods has an open and shut case against this guy but the Whole Foods CEO and everyone on his staff knows that they would be the laughing stock of all their management buddies if they paid a single lawyer a single dollar to pursue a claim against this sad ridiculous loser. Non-SJWs like the commenters on unz/com should be happy that this guy was not a non-SJW and leave it at that, although a prayer for his repentance (and true conversion) is obviously called for from anyone who has read his or her Bible.

  55. Is there any existing criminal law under which hate hoaxes could be prosecuted? If not, should there be a law against hate scams?

    There could be a criminal prosecution if the preacher filed a false police report or even lied to an investigator. Unlikely, that his scheme even go that far. This is more likely a a civil matter of defamation that Whole Foods would easily win, but politically and financially, it is likely not a case worth pursuing.

    From a PR perspective, Whole Foods comes out looking good from the fiasco.

    In the latest hate hoax on the bus in Albany, NY, the three women behind the hoax are being criminally prosecuted for assault and filing a false police report.

  56. Is there any existing criminal law under which hate hoaxes could be prosecuted?

    If there is, it won’t happen, because prosecutors are too busy getting convictions and jail time for white kids who put nooses on inanimate objects…

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/grade-point/wp/2016/03/24/former-ole-miss-student-pleads-guilty-to-hanging-noose-around-statue-honoring-the-first-black-student/

  57. @Stan d Mute

    Are African Americans on average just more likely to have mental issues than Asians and Latinos?
     
    I've wondered for many years if there has been any study of the psychiatric effects of miscegenation. It's hard to imagine that two populations could follow substantially different evolutionary paths for 50,000-100,000 years and yet breed successfully and seamlessly just as if there had been no separation and no biological differences between them. I seem to recall seeing a study showing that American negroes do suffer higher rates of psychiatric disorder than do whites or Asians, but of course American negroes have a fairly high admixture of white European genes. So a more interesting question might be whether full blooded Africans have rates of disorder higher or lower than their cousins bred, born, and raised in America with their hybrid genotype.

    “I’ve wondered for many years if there has been any study of the psychiatric effects of miscegenation. It’s hard to imagine that two populations could follow substantially different evolutionary paths for 50,000-100,000 years and yet breed successfully and seamlessly just as if there had been no separation and no biological differences between them. I seem to recall seeing a study showing that American negroes do suffer higher rates of psychiatric disorder than do whites or Asians, but of course American negroes have a fairly high admixture of white European genes. So a more interesting question might be whether full blooded Africans have rates of disorder higher or lower than their cousins bred, born, and raised in America with their hybrid genotype.”

    Latinos are a highly racially miscegenated group, in fact even more so than African Americans who while mixed as well are still a predominantly Sub Saharan African group, since they average about 80 percent Sub Saharan African ancestry, so Mulatto would not be an accurate description to describe African Americans as a whole.

    The highly racially mixed Latinos commit hate hoaxes as well, but not at the same high rate that African Americans do.

  58. @SFG
    Ah, now you know how Lot, International Jew, and Jewish Conservative Race Realist felt when Pollard got caught. ;)

    Seriously, we can't be giving out the death penalty for crap like this. At least some jail time does seem appropriate for filing an admittedly frivolous lawsuit.

    Seriously, we can’t be giving out the death penalty for crap like this. At least some jail time does seem appropriate for filing an admittedly frivolous lawsuit.

    Uh, jail time in Texas for this kind of creature basically is a death sentence.

  59. @Jefferson
    Mental illness in the African American community is something no one on the Left wants to talk about. To them it is a taboo subject just like Black crime.

    Mental illness in the African American community is something no one on the Left wants to talk about.

    It gets traction here in the UK (or used to, Ive not been paying attention) but of course it is agreed that YT is to blame.

    • Replies: @Hare Krishna
    YouTube's to blame?

    Agreed that no one talks about mental illness in the African-American community, just like no one talks about pedophilia in the African-American community, particularly among ghetto blacks.
    , @Triumph104
    Since everyone in the UK health insurance, "access to care" can't be used as the go-to excuse for black-white health disparities as it is in the US.

    Agreed that no one talks about mental illness in the African-American community, just like no one talks about pedophilia in the African-American community, particularly among ghetto blacks.
     
    Many black people don't believe that blacks commit pedophilia. At all. A lot of blacks don't believe that black women have high abortion rates. They think black women get abortions in clinics, which are counted, but most white women get abortions in doctors' offices and aren't counted.

    Back in the 80s some blacks refused to believe that there was such a thing as a homosexual African.
  60. @Aylok
    Scott Sumner may have just given us the ultimate anti-Trump slogan: (cross-post of my comment at econlog):

    "Millions more people benefit from America's far superior economic system, as compared to their home counties, even if America becomes slightly worse."

    I thank Scott for giving us the honest anti-Trump slogan -

    "Immigration - Making America slightly* Worse!"

    *we hope

    http://econlog.econlib.org/archives/2016/05/the_alt-rights.html

    Scott Sumner may have just given us the ultimate anti-Trump slogan:

    “Millions more people…”

    Who better to summon the world than a man whose very name means “summoner”?!

  61. @Lurker

    Mental illness in the African American community is something no one on the Left wants to talk about.
     
    It gets traction here in the UK (or used to, Ive not been paying attention) but of course it is agreed that YT is to blame.

    YouTube’s to blame?

    Agreed that no one talks about mental illness in the African-American community, just like no one talks about pedophilia in the African-American community, particularly among ghetto blacks.

  62. @Jefferson
    Since when did Black churches accept openly LGBT pastors? I blame it on the crossdressing Madea films.

    Probably got it by mail order or on the internet.

  63. @Forbes
    Loser-pays in civil lawsuits would help lessen such nonsense. Too many businesses settle frivolous lawsuits out of court because it's cheaper than a trial.

    Loser-pays in civil lawsuits would help lessen such nonsense. Too many businesses settle frivolous lawsuits out of court because it’s cheaper than a trial.

    Loser-pays is unacceptable because the winner’s lawyers inflate their fess by 150-500%.

    • Replies: @Brutusale
    Exactly, and that should be the feature, not the bug. The court can remedy any amount deemed particularly egregious.

    The courts are already moving at a snail's pace with real legal work. Anything that reduces the frivolous caseload is fine with me.
  64. @Jefferson
    Mental illness in the African American community is something no one on the Left wants to talk about. To them it is a taboo subject just like Black crime.

    Mental illness in the African American community is something no one on the Left wants to talk about.

    Mental illness in the Left is something no one in the African (or any other) American community wants to talk about. Four of the last five Democratic presidents were nutjobs. And the sane one was incompetent.

  65. @Forbes
    Loser-pays in civil lawsuits would help lessen such nonsense. Too many businesses settle frivolous lawsuits out of court because it's cheaper than a trial.

    Texas is a loser pays state- for a couple of years now. Our personal injury lawsuits are out of control.

    • Replies: @ben tillman

    Texas is a loser pays state- for a couple of years now.
     
    No, it's not.
  66. WGG says:
    @Daniel Williams
    OT: There's a trans hoax a' brewin' in Connecticut: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/woman-mistaken-transgender-harassed-walmart-bathroom-article-1.2638748

    Lie. The young, straight female from the article looks nothing like a man, female impersonator or otherwise. Her features and body are soft and round, very female. She “didn’t report it” yet went seeking attention afterward. But the most damping evidence that this is yet another hoax is that she is quoted as saying she “could see why they thought she was trans.” Hell no. A straight woman whose looks/ value were aggressively undermined by a stranger in public would not be like, “yeah I’m pretty ugly and mannish”.

    “You look like a man” is an insult I have heard hurled between fighting teenage girls and it was the insult which caused most offense. Only calling a girl fat to her face, which is almost never done, is worse in their minds.

  67. Filing a false police report…Obstruction of justice. Slander….Consumer fraud?

  68. @Dave Pinsen
    The idea that a Whole Foods bakery in Austin, TX would be a hotbed of homophobia strained credulity to begin with. Imagine if it were a mom & pop bakery without surveillance cameras in, say, Dallas? They might have found it harder to fight a false claim like this.

    “The idea that a Whole Foods bakery in Austin, TX would be a hotbed of homophobia strained credulity to begin with. ”

    Yes, that alone is a dead giveaway that it was a hoax.

  69. GW says:
    @Svigor
    This reminds me, the NYT is currently being sued for racism, sexism, and ageism by the older black females they allegedly discriminated against. Hannity was all over this today in response to the NYT's piece on Trump's supposed insensitivity to World War Body Image (which is itself unraveling as his "accusers" come forward and accuse NYT instead).

    I honestly don’t see the need to pursue this further.
     
    People should be punished for making false accusations, in a way commensurate with the punishment they were seeking to induce. E.g., the Whole Foods' might seek a judgement based on what he was trying to extort from them.

    I wonder if his church has deep pockets?

    Or maybe just charge them with fraud or extortion. There are laws against fraud and extortion, right?

    Forbes, yes, at the very least, someone found to have deliberately brought false "charges" should have to pay the defendant's cost of defense. That would be a good start.

    But who is the aggrieved party here? If his lawsuit got to the point of requiring a judge’s time, then he should be forced to pay back the taxpayer. Criminal punishment seems excessive.

    The guy slandered Whole Foods not the people of Texas, and if the company wants to drop the matter that’s its prerogative. While we may want to see a flaming SJW get his due, WF is wise to drop this. The guy is clearly mentally unstable, and events like this are rare enough that pressing the counter suit just to make a point doesn’t make much sense.

    A good example of hate hoaxers getting prosecuted is those young female vibrants in Albany who lied to police, saying they were assaulted on a bus.

  70. @Lurker

    Mental illness in the African American community is something no one on the Left wants to talk about.
     
    It gets traction here in the UK (or used to, Ive not been paying attention) but of course it is agreed that YT is to blame.

    Since everyone in the UK health insurance, “access to care” can’t be used as the go-to excuse for black-white health disparities as it is in the US.

    Agreed that no one talks about mental illness in the African-American community, just like no one talks about pedophilia in the African-American community, particularly among ghetto blacks.

    Many black people don’t believe that blacks commit pedophilia. At all. A lot of blacks don’t believe that black women have high abortion rates. They think black women get abortions in clinics, which are counted, but most white women get abortions in doctors’ offices and aren’t counted.

    Back in the 80s some blacks refused to believe that there was such a thing as a homosexual African.

  71. ‘Wasting police time’ is a criminal offence in England.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    ‘Wasting police time’ is a criminal offence in England.
     
    Doesn't that contradict the Race Relations Act, which consists of little else?
  72. Isn’t perjury, that is lying under oath, a real biggie crime punishable by a heavy sentence?

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    The way to go to is to more or less oblige the accusers to take their accusations to court - that is to open a formal police investigation passed to the hands of the public prosecutor - a case of 'put up or shut up'.
    Once in court, the plaintiffs must make their accusations under oath. If the accusations can demonstrably be shown to be outright, damned, explicit lies, then further prosecutions for perjury should ensue.
  73. Is there any existing criminal law under which hate hoaxes could be prosecuted?

    They’ll prosecute this guy after they prosecute the “witnesses” who perjured themselves in the Ferguson Mike Brown trial.

  74. TWS says:
    @frizzled
    Gay man here; as part of the social compact for protecting gay people from targeted violence, I support punishing this hoaxer, possibly much more than he'd be punished for committing a hate crime.

    The legal reasoning for creating the category of hate crimes is that the crime is intended to hurt or terrorize an entire community. Their target extends beyond the immediate victim, much as terrorism is felt to be worse than conventional crime. The same reasoning must apply to hate hoaxes, which damage the reputation of the community and the credibility of reports of actual hate crime. Some research on the extent of the community-reputation damage done by high-profile hoaxes would help in determining an appropriate punishment, but it doesn't seem impossible that hoaxes could have a much worse effect than actual hate crimes. Perhaps the death penalty would be appropriate.

    Death penalty? Unless you’re joking you have your priorities entirely messed up. This isn’t important enough to kill anyone over. It isn’t important enough for anything except for civil penalties.

    The dollar amount is probably such that he should be counter sued. That is it. If however, he was reporting a crime he should be criminally prosecuted because of false reporting.

    • Replies: @Jim Don Bob
    I am self-identifying as trans today, (which means my opinion counts more than you cisgendered honkies) and I think the death penalty is a good idea for these hate hoaxers. It sure would cut down on recidivism. ;-)
  75. AL. says:

    Another obvious hate hoax is percolating. It’s already linked on Drudge. The SJW accuser’s minutes-long indignant video rant pretty much gives it away. However, because it’s based on a supposed verbal exchange in the bathroom, it will be hard to disprove unless cameras show no woman stormed out of the bathroom at the time the accuser claims it happened.

    http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/woman-mistaken-transgender-harassed-walmart-bathroom-article-1.2638748

  76. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Anonymous
    Isn't perjury, that is lying under oath, a real biggie crime punishable by a heavy sentence?

    The way to go to is to more or less oblige the accusers to take their accusations to court – that is to open a formal police investigation passed to the hands of the public prosecutor – a case of ‘put up or shut up’.
    Once in court, the plaintiffs must make their accusations under oath. If the accusations can demonstrably be shown to be outright, damned, explicit lies, then further prosecutions for perjury should ensue.

  77. @Jefferson
    Since when did Black churches accept openly LGBT pastors? I blame it on the crossdressing Madea films.

    Since when did Black churches accept openly LGBT pastors? I blame it on the crossdressing Madea films.

    I didn’t know he was a black and gay twofer. I glanced at previous photos and he looked white. But you are correct about this hate cake hoaxer. This greedy goofball needs *the law* after his sorry butt, but looks doubtful. Whole Foods figures it will lose in the court of public opinion if they push it.

  78. If you want to thank the CEO of Whole Foods for fighting back against this hate hoax, you can probably find him on the Yahoo message boards, he goes by the handle “Rahodeb.”

  79. “Is there any existing criminal law under which hate hoaxes could be prosecuted?”

    Extortion. But then again we do not prosecute extortionists anymore. Just ask Dennis Hastert.

  80. @Forbes
    Loser-pays in civil lawsuits would help lessen such nonsense. Too many businesses settle frivolous lawsuits out of court because it's cheaper than a trial.

    Loser-pays has always seemed great to me, and if the lawyers inflate their fees as ben tillman says, that’s the losers problem to sort out with them and the relevant Bar Assn.

    But I would go further: punitive damages go to the State–or in any case not to the plaintiff.

    Plaintiffs should of course be fully compensated for any and all damages, not all of which are tangible. But punitive damages are supposed to act as a deterrent, not a winning lottery ticket. They should go to society at large; perhaps plaintiffs could have the option of designating a charity.

  81. @ziel
    using the judicial system under false pretenses seems like something that should be strongly discourages and thus should be punished.

    Filing a false police report can get you in some (fairly minor, I think) kind of triuble with the law. But if it’s just you telling lies to the media or your friends, there isn’t and shouldn’t be a crime involved with that. The target of your fraudulent accusations can sue you for slander or libel, though.

  82. @Dave Pinsen
    The idea that a Whole Foods bakery in Austin, TX would be a hotbed of homophobia strained credulity to begin with. Imagine if it were a mom & pop bakery without surveillance cameras in, say, Dallas? They might have found it harder to fight a false claim like this.

    They would also have been a less juicy target, though they might have been hounded for awhile by hostile press or a twitterstorm.

  83. Is there any existing criminal law under which hate hoaxes could be prosecuted? If not, should there be a law against hate scams?

    I guess it depends on the hoax.

    That said, there is a strong argument that in cases of false and malicious rape accusations, the criminal penalty for the false accusation should be at least that of the false accusation, plus damages.

    For less egregious hoaxes – such as this gay cake business – perhaps specific statutes introduced carrying stiff penalties, plus damages for wilfully and maliciously promulgating politically motivated hoaxes calculated to smear organisations, individuals or groups.

    • Replies: @NOTA
    You have to be careful with penalties for false accusations, lest you dissuade actual victims from accusing powerful or popular people for fear of getting hit with a "false accusation" charge. It would be easy to get into a situation where nobody dares accuse the star football player of rape even when he has a huge line of victims, because everyone expects the local prosecutor to protect him by charging his accusers.
  84. @ben tillman

    Loser-pays in civil lawsuits would help lessen such nonsense. Too many businesses settle frivolous lawsuits out of court because it’s cheaper than a trial.
     
    Loser-pays is unacceptable because the winner's lawyers inflate their fess by 150-500%.

    Exactly, and that should be the feature, not the bug. The court can remedy any amount deemed particularly egregious.

    The courts are already moving at a snail’s pace with real legal work. Anything that reduces the frivolous caseload is fine with me.

  85. If not, should there be a law against hate scams?

    Definitely. The most amazing thing about hate scams is that the only thing standing between the perpetrators and “cash & prizes” is their own stupidity/incompetence. That’s not a very reliable last line of defense.

  86. @jtgw
    Prosecution seems like overkill, especially in light of the fact that Whole Foods was not facing criminal charges to begin with. They were sued, launched a countersuit, then after the first suit was dropped and an apology was issued, they dropped the countersuit. I honestly don't see the need to pursue this further.

    The lawyers won. Who cares about the legal expense incurred by Whole Foods? They can pass it on to their customers.

  87. @Ed
    They don't but the black community is also riddled with one man church operations that are basically scams. I suspect he's one of them. He's probably just starting out hence the hoax for attention.

    Another blogger looked into it and this one was also a scam. It is/was an independent church with an average attendance of about ten.

  88. The crime is theft by extortion.

  89. NOTA says:
    @NickG

    Is there any existing criminal law under which hate hoaxes could be prosecuted? If not, should there be a law against hate scams?
     
    I guess it depends on the hoax.

    That said, there is a strong argument that in cases of false and malicious rape accusations, the criminal penalty for the false accusation should be at least that of the false accusation, plus damages.

    For less egregious hoaxes - such as this gay cake business - perhaps specific statutes introduced carrying stiff penalties, plus damages for wilfully and maliciously promulgating politically motivated hoaxes calculated to smear organisations, individuals or groups.

    You have to be careful with penalties for false accusations, lest you dissuade actual victims from accusing powerful or popular people for fear of getting hit with a “false accusation” charge. It would be easy to get into a situation where nobody dares accuse the star football player of rape even when he has a huge line of victims, because everyone expects the local prosecutor to protect him by charging his accusers.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    I don't think that the scenario that you paint is likely. In order to convict someone of the crime of making false accusations (BTW filing a false police report is already a crime) you have to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the accusation was totally false. Most of these rape cases are of the he said/she said type so convicting either the (false) accuser or the accused is difficult. That's why a lot of these cases don't involve criminal accusations at all but rather college disciplinary proceedings or accusations in the press or in civil court.


    In the case of the cake, the only reason Whole Foods was able to put this to bed was that they had security tapes which clearly showed that the box had been tampered with (the position of the bar code label shifted after the cake left the store).

    Falsely accusing someone of rape was always actionable on a civil basis as defamation and the burden of proof is much lower, so making an accusation was always a risk, especially against a rich and powerful guy who has an army of lawyers ready to sue at the drop of a hat.

  90. As a patron of that very Whole Foods store on 6th & Lamar Blvd. in Austin, I wonder if I have crossed the line in the sight of god with the number of cheese cubes I have taken from their cheese sampling stands in the cheese department, not to speak of the rasberry chocolate squares in their chocolate sampling stands at the checkout aisles. It is refreshing to learn that surveillance tapes of my malfeasances exist.

    • Replies: @Eustace Tilley (not)
    Make that "raspberry", not "rasberry".

    Think of the spiny surface of a wood rasp. Now take a close look at a raspberry. Get it?

    (You might think of capitalizing "God" while you're at it. The Judaeo-Christian Deity is traditionally capitalized in English, to distinguish Him from the Graeco-Roman gods such as Apollo and Zeus.)

  91. @Forbes
    Loser-pays in civil lawsuits would help lessen such nonsense. Too many businesses settle frivolous lawsuits out of court because it's cheaper than a trial.

    Never gonna happen. The Trial Lawyers Association, which renamed itself Lawyers for Justice or something, is a huge contributor to the Democrats.

  92. @Daniel H
    Under the Stolen Valor Act a loser can be prosecuted and sent to jail for the harmless prank of parading around in fake military regalia. I don't see why malicious fraudsters like this pastor shouldn't be prosecuted for the real harm that they cause to businesses, the owners of the businesses and the workers of the businesses.

    Under the Stolen Valor Act a loser can be prosecuted and sent to jail for the harmless prank of parading around in fake military regalia.

    False. The original SVA was overturned by the Supreme Court. Congress went back in 2013 and pass another version that required the person falsely claiming military awards or service must do it for the purpose of fraud.

  93. @TWS
    Death penalty? Unless you're joking you have your priorities entirely messed up. This isn't important enough to kill anyone over. It isn't important enough for anything except for civil penalties.

    The dollar amount is probably such that he should be counter sued. That is it. If however, he was reporting a crime he should be criminally prosecuted because of false reporting.

    I am self-identifying as trans today, (which means my opinion counts more than you cisgendered honkies) and I think the death penalty is a good idea for these hate hoaxers. It sure would cut down on recidivism. 😉

  94. Instead of Whole Foods as a corporation pursuing a civil case against the lying reverend, perhaps WF shareholders (or employees) as a group should file a civil case for intentional infliction of emotional distress or some civil fraud complaint and seek compensation for actual and punitive damages.

  95. @WGG
    Texas is a loser pays state- for a couple of years now. Our personal injury lawsuits are out of control.

    Texas is a loser pays state- for a couple of years now.

    No, it’s not.

  96. @Jefferson
    Since when did Black churches accept openly LGBT pastors? I blame it on the crossdressing Madea films.

    He has a gay church not a black church, two different things.

    He used to hold services in the community room of his apartment complex.

  97. From Whole Foods POV, they were glad to make the whole thing to go away – even if their countersuit was successful (which it would have been) the guy surely doesn’t have more than 10 cents with which to pay a judgment. He apologized and it was over for them.

    However, as many have pointed out, embezzlement (which this was) is a crime. The State has different interests than Whole Foods. While, for reasons of PC, these kind of hate hoax crimes have not been pursued often, it’s not too late in this case. It’s still possible that the cakewriter will be indicted. At least one can hope.

  98. @NOTA
    You have to be careful with penalties for false accusations, lest you dissuade actual victims from accusing powerful or popular people for fear of getting hit with a "false accusation" charge. It would be easy to get into a situation where nobody dares accuse the star football player of rape even when he has a huge line of victims, because everyone expects the local prosecutor to protect him by charging his accusers.

    I don’t think that the scenario that you paint is likely. In order to convict someone of the crime of making false accusations (BTW filing a false police report is already a crime) you have to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the accusation was totally false. Most of these rape cases are of the he said/she said type so convicting either the (false) accuser or the accused is difficult. That’s why a lot of these cases don’t involve criminal accusations at all but rather college disciplinary proceedings or accusations in the press or in civil court.

    In the case of the cake, the only reason Whole Foods was able to put this to bed was that they had security tapes which clearly showed that the box had been tampered with (the position of the bar code label shifted after the cake left the store).

    Falsely accusing someone of rape was always actionable on a civil basis as defamation and the burden of proof is much lower, so making an accusation was always a risk, especially against a rich and powerful guy who has an army of lawyers ready to sue at the drop of a hat.

    • Replies: @E. Rekshun
    so making an accusation was always a risk, especially against a rich and powerful guy who has an army of lawyers ready to sue at the drop of a hat.

    Tee hee! Can we think of anyone in particular?
  99. @fish

    The idea that a Whole Foods bakery in Austin, TX would be a hotbed of homophobia strained credulity to begin with.
     
    Another reason to countersue this asshole! Stupid should hurt!

    Come now.

    If WF went after Pastor Open Doors and his cake wreck* then every liberal in Austin would get furious at them for picking on someone they well know, deep down, to be mentally ill.

    And that is a far far far worse category of offense in their minds than WF’s other bad-doings.

    The #1 capacity required to be a lib/prog these days is subtext, oozing between layers of overt or covert mendacity. Religio-social baklava, sticky and gooey and sprinkled with nuts.

    *Cake Wrecks dot com gave this story a pass. Pity.

  100. @anonymouse
    As a patron of that very Whole Foods store on 6th & Lamar Blvd. in Austin, I wonder if I have crossed the line in the sight of god with the number of cheese cubes I have taken from their cheese sampling stands in the cheese department, not to speak of the rasberry chocolate squares in their chocolate sampling stands at the checkout aisles. It is refreshing to learn that surveillance tapes of my malfeasances exist.

    Make that “raspberry”, not “rasberry”.

    Think of the spiny surface of a wood rasp. Now take a close look at a raspberry. Get it?

    (You might think of capitalizing “God” while you’re at it. The Judaeo-Christian Deity is traditionally capitalized in English, to distinguish Him from the Graeco-Roman gods such as Apollo and Zeus.)

    • Replies: @Charles Erwin Wilson
    Touche! I salute your pedantry in service of the English Language!
  101. He should definitely be prosecuted.

  102. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    If its the Whole Foods downtown on 6th St. I’ve been in there several times.

    I pissed off a hipster there when I made a joke I heard from some guy there in Austin that he thought it was whiter than a KKK rally. Smug place.

    Sad they have to go to such levels just to seek attention.

  103. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    Clearly, our cultural is vulnerable to hate fraud by people looking for money, fame, and/or to spread hatred of disfavored groups such as straights.

    Right, but there’s also many right-wingers on the internet and social media who “spread hatred”, make death threats, etc. Presumably you don’t think they should be prosecuted. How exactly would you prosecute leftists for “spreading hatred” without ending up doing the same for right-wingers?

  104. So should Donald Trump and his supporters be prosecuted for spreading hatred that leads to this sort of thing:

    http://www.businessinsider.com/two-boston-brothers-jailed-for-trump-inspired-hate-crime-2016-5

    • Replies: @Brutusale
    We have two Irish-American morons from Southie with two priors for hate crimes, but it's Trump's fault.

    http://www.bostonherald.com/news/local_coverage/2016/05/it_s_prison_for_brothers_who_beat_mexican_immigrant

    Their village is going to be short two idiots for a few years, so maybe you can move to Southie to help make up the difference!
  105. @Jack D
    I don't think that the scenario that you paint is likely. In order to convict someone of the crime of making false accusations (BTW filing a false police report is already a crime) you have to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the accusation was totally false. Most of these rape cases are of the he said/she said type so convicting either the (false) accuser or the accused is difficult. That's why a lot of these cases don't involve criminal accusations at all but rather college disciplinary proceedings or accusations in the press or in civil court.


    In the case of the cake, the only reason Whole Foods was able to put this to bed was that they had security tapes which clearly showed that the box had been tampered with (the position of the bar code label shifted after the cake left the store).

    Falsely accusing someone of rape was always actionable on a civil basis as defamation and the burden of proof is much lower, so making an accusation was always a risk, especially against a rich and powerful guy who has an army of lawyers ready to sue at the drop of a hat.

    so making an accusation was always a risk, especially against a rich and powerful guy who has an army of lawyers ready to sue at the drop of a hat.

    Tee hee! Can we think of anyone in particular?

  106. @Anonymous
    'Wasting police time' is a criminal offence in England.

    ‘Wasting police time’ is a criminal offence in England.

    Doesn’t that contradict the Race Relations Act, which consists of little else?

  107. It seems to me that perpetrating a hoax of any kind at the expense of some other individual or business is at the least a civil tort, and if the hoax involves a false allegation that the individual or business perpetrated a crime (whether a “hate crime” or any other crime), it is a crime itself, analogous to making a false police report or fire alarm.

  108. @Anonymous
    So should Donald Trump and his supporters be prosecuted for spreading hatred that leads to this sort of thing:

    http://www.businessinsider.com/two-boston-brothers-jailed-for-trump-inspired-hate-crime-2016-5

    We have two Irish-American morons from Southie with two priors for hate crimes, but it’s Trump’s fault.

    http://www.bostonherald.com/news/local_coverage/2016/05/it_s_prison_for_brothers_who_beat_mexican_immigrant

    Their village is going to be short two idiots for a few years, so maybe you can move to Southie to help make up the difference!

  109. Is there a web site where all of the hate hoaxes over the years have been cataloged and documented?

    Being able to point to something like that might help de-legitimize the Narrative.

  110. @Daniel Williams

    Imagine if it were a mom & pop bakery without surveillance cameras in, say, Dallas? They might have found it harder to fight a false claim like this.
     
    Mom & pop operations aren't as likely to be the targets of one. They're generally not perceived as having deep pockets. "Pastor" Brown was in this for the duckets.

    “Pastor” Brown was in this for the duckets.

    Shouldn’t that be the “Tubmans?” (cf. our Dear Leader)

  111. @Aylok
    Scott Sumner may have just given us the ultimate anti-Trump slogan: (cross-post of my comment at econlog):

    "Millions more people benefit from America's far superior economic system, as compared to their home counties, even if America becomes slightly worse."

    I thank Scott for giving us the honest anti-Trump slogan -

    "Immigration - Making America slightly* Worse!"

    *we hope

    http://econlog.econlib.org/archives/2016/05/the_alt-rights.html

    Immigration – Making America slightly* Worse!

    If it were only slightly!

  112. @Eustace Tilley (not)
    Make that "raspberry", not "rasberry".

    Think of the spiny surface of a wood rasp. Now take a close look at a raspberry. Get it?

    (You might think of capitalizing "God" while you're at it. The Judaeo-Christian Deity is traditionally capitalized in English, to distinguish Him from the Graeco-Roman gods such as Apollo and Zeus.)

    Touche! I salute your pedantry in service of the English Language!

  113. I think the fraudster’s attempt constitutes a Criminal Attempt to Deceive in order to benefit.

    I think any aggressive prosecutor could use this, and he does not even need a criminal complaint,or the cooperation on Whole Foods

  114. Looks like something might happen to these aimless hoodrats:

    http://www.cnn.com/2016/02/25/us/new-york-albany-assaults/index.html

    If these acts aren’t vigorously prosecuted, they’ll just keep happening. Being black, and therefore being assumed to be feeble-minded by too many prosecutors, should no longer be an option for prosecutors weighing the merits of the case.

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