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Boxing promoter Frank (now Kellie) Maloney and two of his (her?) lads

The sudden rise of World War T after victory in World War G has been one of the funnier test cases of my model of how the dominant paradigms work. Thus, we’ve been besieged with stories based on the premise that the transgendered are all gentle, helpless victims of bullying by Straight White Males.

And yet, I first noticed the onrushing World War T in an NYT story about an ex-man who was complaining about discrimination in not being allowed to beat up women in Ultimate Fighting Championship women’s bouts. Indeed, many of the highest profile Transformers have tended to be two-fisted macho men habituated to beating down any obstacles in their paths.

Not all of them are jerks. For example, the elderly travel writer James-Jan Morris is a charming David Niven-like WWII British Army officer. I read Morris’s memoir “Conundrum” 20 years ago, and noticed that Morris had to be lying about the “I always felt like a girl on the inside part.” Morris, pre and post, was no more a girl on the inside than Niven. I once gave my father a Jan Morris travel book on some place we’d gone. He remarked that he’d enjoyed it, but was surprised to see on the last page that Jan Morris is a woman because it sure seemed like it was written by a man.

Now, here’s the funniest example yet of this pattern.

From the Independent:

Lennox Lewis and Frank “Female Brain” Maloney

Frank Maloney: ‘I was born in the wrong body and have always known I was a woman’

Once-pugnacious manager of Lennox Lewis stuns boxing world with sex change revelation

ADAM LUSHER Sunday 10 August 2014

After 30 years in the macho world of boxing, the former fight promoter Frank Maloney has revealed that he is undergoing a sex change and living as a woman called Kellie.

Kellie, 61, once the pugnacious manager of the former world heavyweight boxing champion Lennox Lewis, said that she has undergone hormone therapy and is now more than a year into the transition to becoming a woman.

“I was born in the wrong body and have always known I was a woman,” she said. “I have a female brain. I knew I was different from the minute I could compare myself to others.

LENNOX LEWIS: ‘I THOUGHT IT WAS A WIND-UP’

“I never felt comfortable doing boys’ things, playing boys’ games. But I buried myself in them to make sure I wasn’t seen as different.”

Yeah, sure.

A common trait of mental illness is retconning your psychological history. People who develop paranoia can suddenly recall how they’ve always been conspired against. Depressed people feel like they’ve always been depressed.

And to some extent, that tends to be true. Mental illnesses generally don’t come wholly out of the blue, but are instead exacerbations of mild symptoms long present. People who turn into full blown paranoiacs often tend to be suspicious and uneasy when they were younger.

Senility starts out similar. You’ll notice that Shelley Sterling’s successful legal maneuver to take Donald Sterling’s basketball team away from him was based on the contention that he was going senile and had suddenly changed. And yet Sterling has been the same for decades: a bumptious egomaniacal publicity hound. All that had changed was that in his eighties he’d lost the step that let him get away with it, and now he’d gone from exploiter to exploited.

Probably a lot of middle-aged tough guys who become ill and decide they are women always had some kind of transvestite fetish they had mostly kept under control in their primes, just as people who think they are Napoleon likely always had some fascination with power.

Frank Maloney grew up as a Millwall-supporting

As a commenter notes, this reference is intended to explain what Maloney was like when young: supporters of the Millwall soccer team were perhaps the most notorious for hooliganism of all the soccer fans in England, which is saying a lot. But of course he always felt like a little girl on the inside, even when putting the boot in.

south Londoner, became a boxer and then a trainer, and achieved greatest success while working with Lewis, who became a world champion in 1992.

Having also managed the former world cruiserweight champion David Haye, Maloney appeared fearless, tough-talking and flamboyant, with a fondness for going to fights in Union Jack suits.

But Kellie, who gave her interview to the Sunday Mirror wearing a dress and stilettos, said she was constantly fighting the urge to dress as a woman. “Mentally I was tearing myself apart.” …

The twice-married father of three quit as a boxing promoter last October, saying he had “fallen out of love with boxing” .

She admits now that she was preparing to withdraw from the public gaze so she could continue with a gender transition that had begun in her final year of managing boxers.

In the past two years, she has had hormone therapy, hair removal electrolysis, voice coaching and counselling.

She told her wife Tracey about her desire to become a woman in 2012. “We were standing in the kitchen and I said, ‘I have to tell you that I have lived with this all my life. I’ve lived a lie and I really am a female in my head.’

“We are very good friends now. She is very supportive and very loyal to me.”

A sportswriter adds:

Comment: As brave – and mad – as some of his fighters

By Steve Bunce, Boxing Correspondent

Frank Maloney loved a fight on both sides of the ropes, and in 50 years in the boxing world he had plenty. He won most of them. He now has one more battle to overcome after announcing that he is undergoing a sex change.

He walked away from the boxing business last October and vanished, until he emerged yesterday on the front page of a paper with a new hairstyle, a new name and a gentler voice. Kellie looks much better than Frank did, to tell the truth.

It has been a terrible five years for Maloney, with heart attacks, separation from his beloved second wife, a suicide attempt, the death of his father and the discovery of arguably his last great fighter, Darren Sutherland, hanged in a south London bedsit in 2009. Maloney was the first person through the door and has never recovered.

Maloney overcame each terrible setback and problem with the same determination that had seen him go head-to-head with Don King and boxing’s other powerbrokers during his 15 years with Lennox Lewis; the pair went from virtual obscurity to the heavyweight world title on their terms in one of boxing’s greatest partnerships.

Over the past 25 years, I have been in a dozen boxing outposts with Maloney, some exotic and some diabolical, and the revelation was shocking. It had some of the usual Maloney flourishes, and as I read it I had to smile. I sent Kellie a text to tell her that she was brave. “It could be plain mad,” she replied, which is true, and the old Frank never much cared for rules or what people thought about him.

There had been rumours back in June, but nobody believed it. Maloney, you see, was a veteran and an expert in the brutal business of boxing. The old Maloney was a throwback, operating at all levels from running pubs with boxing gyms above the bars to guiding fighters to world titles and riches. He was at the centre of a savage, macho world and he seldom put a foot wrong – now we know he was talking to a counsellor and buying women’s clobber.

Maloney managed and trained some stupidly brave fighters, men who took terrible risks in a fearless business, and yesterday morning the trainee priest, apprentice jockey, amateur fighter, promoter, publican and manager of fighting men showed that she was their equal. Well done, Kellie.

 
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  1. Steve – do you think there’s something about these men hitting “male menopause” that throws them for a loop?

  2. Or maybe getting punched in the head a lot.

    • Replies: @Lewis
    Speaking of punches to the head, there's an interesting aside in this article about pedophiles - https://medium.com/matter/youre-16-youre-a-pedophile-you-dont-want-to-hurt-anyone-what-do-you-do-now-e11ce4b88bdb

    "Another study found that being knocked unconscious before the age of 13 might be a factor [in becoming a pedophile]."

    The article doesn't provide a source. However, it makes me wonder. Greg Cochran has persuasively argued that homosexuality is not particularly genetic, using the example of identical twins where when one is gay the other is usually straight. Could homosexuality result from a head injury? Or, from another environmental influence... Is it possible that lead pollution in urban areas, which we know caused anomalous criminal behavior, also caused an upswing in homosexual behavior? The timeframes seem to match the 60s/70s freakout.
  3. Seriously, that could be part of it: high testosterone guys have their testosterone dropping due to aging and a tiny percentage of them decide they need estrogen supplements.

    • Replies: @Tony
    Please. You really cant be serious with THAT theory. Maybe the guy's telling the truth. Accept it at face value. Sometimes its just that simple.
    , @B and B
    Would that explain the long standing autogynephilia though?

    Pretty obvious someone like Frank Maloney has a male brain.

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3180619/
  4. One would need a high level of testosterone for such a change. An XX woman would be too worried about what everyone else thought about it. (F to M are likely high T to begin with)

  5. I first noticed the onrushing World War T in an NYT story about an ex-man . . .

    If you come up with a team of transexual superheroes, could you called them the Ex-Men or would you get sued for copyright infringement?

  6. Circus freaks, each and every one.

  7. Gee I learned a new word, “retconning.”

    I think that this “retconning” happens a lot in these human interest stories.

  8. anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    I like these guys, who presently claim they ‘always knew’ they were female on the inside, suckering unsuspecting women into marrying them and oftentimes having children. Then out of the blue they give their families the bizarre news, throwing them into turmoil. It really isn’t fair yet somehow they make these people into heroes even though they’ve left people damaged in their wake. The macho persona was probably compensatory all along, just a counterfeit exterior that seemed real to everyone else. He was colorfully macho in his male pose, now he’ll probably act flamboyantly female in his new role. Lights, cameras, applause.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Nobody fakes a lifetime of obsession with boxing to be "compensatory." Getting punched in the face hurts too much.
    , @Anonymous
    You make some excellent points. Never did understand the "heroism" involved here.
  9. @Steve Sailer
    Seriously, that could be part of it: high testosterone guys have their testosterone dropping due to aging and a tiny percentage of them decide they need estrogen supplements.

    Please. You really cant be serious with THAT theory. Maybe the guy’s telling the truth. Accept it at face value. Sometimes its just that simple.

  10. The majority of these folks seem to be Baby Boomers in their late 50’s to early 60’s. My guess is that part of the motivation here is that these people cannot come to terms with their own mortality, and don’t have a religious faith, so they are trying to be “reborn” as a woman.

  11. Bollocks! I too thought it had to be a wind up! I’m gobsmaked but godspeed to Frankie….I mean Francine!

  12. @anonymous
    I like these guys, who presently claim they 'always knew' they were female on the inside, suckering unsuspecting women into marrying them and oftentimes having children. Then out of the blue they give their families the bizarre news, throwing them into turmoil. It really isn't fair yet somehow they make these people into heroes even though they've left people damaged in their wake. The macho persona was probably compensatory all along, just a counterfeit exterior that seemed real to everyone else. He was colorfully macho in his male pose, now he'll probably act flamboyantly female in his new role. Lights, cameras, applause.

    Nobody fakes a lifetime of obsession with boxing to be “compensatory.” Getting punched in the face hurts too much.

  13. I’m just waiting for Don King to tell the world he always was a woman – a white woman. He has the hairdo of a old of old ladies who have had too many permanents and dye jobs.

  14. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    Steven, this fascinating idea you’ve discussed (which was advanced by Bailey, and I guess some other guy before him) about there being a very strange sexually motivated form of transexualism is intriguing, but it kind of mystifies me. So the idea is that some transexuals are not women trapped in men’s bodies, like the common stereotype. Instead, they are kinky narcissistic he-men who get off on the idea of…what is it again?…of someone pursuing them as a woman? So in order to fully enjoy this fantasy, they want to get their sex parts removed? Is that it?

    But doesn’t the removal kind of get in the way of the enjoyment part? And once they get their way, what next?

    I feel like we must be missing some part of the puzzle here. But you do seem to be right that some of these Ts are not exactly shrinking feminine violets. And it is positively hilarious to think of them clashing more and more these days with the standard-issue feminist shrews!

    • Replies: @B and B
    Not just some, but most. Whereas the activists claim the exact opposite.

    The Blanchard typology is now demonstrated.
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3180619/

    The difference is much more than the paraphilia, also life history and cognitive behavioural traits. Importantly there is a difference in body language (real idiopathic type don't need to transition, its innate) that should be the sole operationalisation, in my view, because its difficult to emulate. FtMs are shown to be phenotypically atypical for their sex with regards to teeth and pelvis, and likely idiopathic MtFs have feminine skeletons as well. If I saw the skeletons of certain (androphile) 'GID' people I've seen in life, I'm sure they couldn't be assigned confidently as male.
    , @reiner Tor

    But doesn’t the removal kind of get in the way of the enjoyment part? And once they get their way, what next?
     
    I don't quite understand that either, but apparently there are masochists who enjoy not having sex (not even a handjob) with a dominant mistress who instead tortures them. There are cuckold fetishists who enjoy similar things while watching their wives having sex with another guy. An extreme form of the latter is castration fetish, where the guy - instead of wearing some kind of chastity device - has his organ cut off (apparently there are doctors who do that for them), sometimes only the head of it (I would think this would remove the whole point of the fetish, but apparently they still do that and keep enjoying their wives have sex with others), sometimes even the balls (which might kill sexual desire as such, but apparently not the cuckold fetish), sometimes removing even the residual penis. I know this fetish exists because I have seen it on pictures and it's not the kind of experience you'll ever forget. While I would think these people are mentally ill, apparently doctors - instead of treating (or trying to treat) their illness - just cut off their penises. (Same thing for "transsexuals".) It's like a person comes to the doctor with a serious depression and the doctor helps him commit suicide.

    (Female masochists seem to be more normal. I am quite sure they usually do have regular sex with their dominant masters, so essentially the whole sadomasochism thing is just a part of the foreplay or something like that. However, there are many women who never marry etc., so even this story might be more complicated. Probably women also have many severe fitness-reducing mental illnesses. I wonder if people have always had such fetishes etc., or if it's only part of modern life.)
  15. @Carol

    The easiest retcon to see on display currently is the “nation of immigrants” lie and Obama’s recent speech about how Muslims helped build the country.

    Ask the average person on the street what the demographics were of America in 1960. You’ll see the retconning of America’s history on full display.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    You should see it here in Canada. The media is engaging in major revisionism over the 100 year anniversary of WW1 and Canada's changed demographics. You would think that 99% of the soldiers in Canada's army then had been black, brown and yellow instead of white.
  16. @anonymous
    I like these guys, who presently claim they 'always knew' they were female on the inside, suckering unsuspecting women into marrying them and oftentimes having children. Then out of the blue they give their families the bizarre news, throwing them into turmoil. It really isn't fair yet somehow they make these people into heroes even though they've left people damaged in their wake. The macho persona was probably compensatory all along, just a counterfeit exterior that seemed real to everyone else. He was colorfully macho in his male pose, now he'll probably act flamboyantly female in his new role. Lights, cameras, applause.

    You make some excellent points. Never did understand the “heroism” involved here.

  17. @Nathan Wartooth
    @Carol

    The easiest retcon to see on display currently is the "nation of immigrants" lie and Obama's recent speech about how Muslims helped build the country.

    Ask the average person on the street what the demographics were of America in 1960. You'll see the retconning of America's history on full display.

    You should see it here in Canada. The media is engaging in major revisionism over the 100 year anniversary of WW1 and Canada’s changed demographics. You would think that 99% of the soldiers in Canada’s army then had been black, brown and yellow instead of white.

  18. WWG makes me want to weep. But WWT makes me want to retch.

  19. There seem to be two kinds of men who make this jump: long term, low-T effeminate types like Bradley Manning, and former high-T types like Chris Beck and Don McCloskey hitting their decline.

    And Steve-o, now that I’ve got your attention can you tackle myopia? The “intensive early reading” hypothesis doesn’t seem to make sense, in light of lots of brainy aircraft pilots with perfect vision. We’re talking a big chunk of the population, at least a third. And it’s associated with higher-g, a la the Khmer Rouge scrutinizing nose bridges for calluses. How does myopia survive the Ice Age?

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Myopia -- pretty strange stuff.

    It should be of interest to Sideline Dads because the evidence is mounting that one of the chief differences between major league hitters and ordinary good athletes is great eyesight.

  20. @The Anti-Gnostic
    There seem to be two kinds of men who make this jump: long term, low-T effeminate types like Bradley Manning, and former high-T types like Chris Beck and Don McCloskey hitting their decline.

    And Steve-o, now that I've got your attention can you tackle myopia? The "intensive early reading" hypothesis doesn't seem to make sense, in light of lots of brainy aircraft pilots with perfect vision. We're talking a big chunk of the population, at least a third. And it's associated with higher-g, a la the Khmer Rouge scrutinizing nose bridges for calluses. How does myopia survive the Ice Age?

    Myopia — pretty strange stuff.

    It should be of interest to Sideline Dads because the evidence is mounting that one of the chief differences between major league hitters and ordinary good athletes is great eyesight.

  21. Steve Bunce loves Big Brother.

  22. “Probably a lot of middle-aged tough guys who become ill and decide they are women always had some kind of transvestite fetish they had mostly kept under control in their primes.”

    True in some cases, perhaps more so in the old, pre-Internet days. Plenty of comments on porn sites allude to phenomenon of men developing trans fixation/obsession via exposure to heterosexual porn. They report gradually identifying with the women. Would be interesting to have stats on how many Ts developed through this path vs. the number who started with the T leaning. The former is maybe a more economical explanation for the macho fighter pilots/boxing trainers/etceteras who announce in late middle age that they actually were women on the inside all along.

  23. Many argue that transsexualism is a bid for attention – the boy or man perceives that women generally get more attention and are valued higher, so he believes illogically that if he puts on a dress, he will be treated with more respect. It might be linked to neglect by parents, or a little boy getting snubbed in favor of his sister.

    Obviously, there are other factors at work, since such a belief is highly illogical – transgenders can’t reason on a fundamental level. Of course, the transgender movement doesn’t help things; someone can get automatic social support, and get treated better, by claiming to be transgender. Bradley Manning, IMO, claimed to be transgender so that the transgender movement would help him with his trial.

  24. Frank Maloney grew up as a Millwall-supporting south Londoner

    Thats not just a bit of trivia, its a reminder about ‘Kellie’s’ macho background. Millwall supporters were seen as particularly tough and violent. In the 1970s-80s heyday of football hooliganism they were amongst the most notorious.

  25. Priss Factor [AKA "king queer queen"] says:

    ugh

  26. I’ve always suspected narcissism and autogynephile-type transsexualism were connected at some deep level. The self becomes the focus of erotic fixation. Since these men are heterosexual, the ideal sexualized-self is the self-as-woman. Real women then seem inferior to the mental image of the “woman” they would become.

    It seems to fit in a lot of ways. Narcissism is a common trait in high-testosterone alpha-men (part of the dark triad of masculinity). On the other hand, there are also effeminate-type transsexuals who are usually attracted to men and present as girly even in childhood.

    Female-to-male transsexuals seem to be mostly butch lesbians who want to take the butch thing to the next level.

  27. In fact, Frank Maloney is an Irishman in that he is the child of 1950s Irish emigrants to London.
    ‘Boy George’ (George O’Dowd) and Danny la Rue – the famous ‘female impersonator’ were also Irishmen.

  28. Oh dear, looks like I made a redundant comment above. Or did Steve add something about Millwall after I left that comment?

  29. I half wonder if, with the increasing status of women vis-a-vis men, a lot of men figure they’d rather be on the winning side.

    When I was young enough to worry about such things, I used to joke about it as a way out of the draft. (Yes, that won’t do it anymore, but this was back when being gay would keep you out.)

    With all these theories that sound nothing alike, I figure it’s one of these cases where nobody has a clue. 😉

  30. Follow the money!

    As a woman he’ll get his Old Age Pension a bit earlier; if he qualifies for it before April ’16 he’ll also be allowed to defer it on more attractive terms than a man his age.

    I take it that we taxpayers are paying the NHS to perform this phoney Maloney baloney.

    • Replies: @Rob
    From Viz Letterbocks:


    MEN LIVE to an average age of 70, whilst women carry on till they're 78. On my 70th birthday I fully intend to have a sex change operation in order to claim my extra 8 years. And I jolly well expect the NHS to pay for it.

    H. Plasterboard, Huntington
  31. It should be of interest to Sideline Dads because the evidence is mounting that one of the chief differences between major league hitters and ordinary good athletes is great eyesight.

    When I was growing up, there was one major-leaguer in our town, and we heard the story of how his sons could stand on an overpass and report the number of fingers being held up by someone a mile or two down the highway. That’s the only thing I ever heard about the guy that wasn’t on his baseball card. And he was a career .235 hitter.

  32. @Steve Sailer
    Seriously, that could be part of it: high testosterone guys have their testosterone dropping due to aging and a tiny percentage of them decide they need estrogen supplements.

    Would that explain the long standing autogynephilia though?

    Pretty obvious someone like Frank Maloney has a male brain.

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3180619/

  33. @TZ
    Pictures of the new "Kellie"
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2721088/Legendary-hard-man-boxing-promoter-Frank-Maloney-reveals-s-living-woman-called-Kellie.html

    So hot.

  34. @Anonymous
    Steven, this fascinating idea you've discussed (which was advanced by Bailey, and I guess some other guy before him) about there being a very strange sexually motivated form of transexualism is intriguing, but it kind of mystifies me. So the idea is that some transexuals are not women trapped in men's bodies, like the common stereotype. Instead, they are kinky narcissistic he-men who get off on the idea of...what is it again?...of someone pursuing them as a woman? So in order to fully enjoy this fantasy, they want to get their sex parts removed? Is that it?

    But doesn't the removal kind of get in the way of the enjoyment part? And once they get their way, what next?

    I feel like we must be missing some part of the puzzle here. But you do seem to be right that some of these Ts are not exactly shrinking feminine violets. And it is positively hilarious to think of them clashing more and more these days with the standard-issue feminist shrews!

    Not just some, but most. Whereas the activists claim the exact opposite.

    The Blanchard typology is now demonstrated.
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3180619/

    The difference is much more than the paraphilia, also life history and cognitive behavioural traits. Importantly there is a difference in body language (real idiopathic type don’t need to transition, its innate) that should be the sole operationalisation, in my view, because its difficult to emulate. FtMs are shown to be phenotypically atypical for their sex with regards to teeth and pelvis, and likely idiopathic MtFs have feminine skeletons as well. If I saw the skeletons of certain (androphile) ‘GID’ people I’ve seen in life, I’m sure they couldn’t be assigned confidently as male.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    There are people who are born vague in the sex identity department and they have my sympathy. But Frank Maloney wasn't one of them.
  35. @dearieme
    Follow the money!

    As a woman he'll get his Old Age Pension a bit earlier; if he qualifies for it before April '16 he'll also be allowed to defer it on more attractive terms than a man his age.

    I take it that we taxpayers are paying the NHS to perform this phoney Maloney baloney.

    From Viz Letterbocks:

    MEN LIVE to an average age of 70, whilst women carry on till they’re 78. On my 70th birthday I fully intend to have a sex change operation in order to claim my extra 8 years. And I jolly well expect the NHS to pay for it.

    H. Plasterboard, Huntington

  36. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    In the linked Daily Mail article it says he must “live as a woman for two years” before the NHS will cut off his dangly bits (for free, presumably).

    But this raises a pretty big question: what does it mean to “live as a woman” in a society in which there are no agreed upon gender and sex roles?

    Bull dykes are self-identified “women”, yet they wear doc martens, flannel shirts, blue jeans, crew cuts and sport “Death before Dishonor” tattoos. Are they “living as women”, or are they “living as men”?

    Perhaps the NHS has some laundry list of “women” factors: pantyhose at least twice a week, Capri pants in public at least twice a month, stilettos at least five times a year, etc. but who keeps track?

  37. Anon • Disclaimer says:

    Shouldn’t people be asking why cons stick with Jews when Jews stick with Obama?

    http://pjmedia.com/blog/why-do-most-jews-stay-with-obama/

    Why stick with a people who gave us Obama, Holder, Kagan, Sotomayor, defamation of ‘war on women’, push for amnesty, gun control, homo sexual agenda, etc?

    At least Jews own and control Obama.
    The only thing American Conservatives get to do is serve the Jews.

  38. Priss Factor [AKA "Hannity is a whore of Zionists"] says:

  39. Priss Factor [AKA "What Dana Milbank is really worried about"] says:

    What Milbank is really worried about.

    He looks at the resurgence of Russian nationalism among Russians who were supposed to be beaten in the 90s.
    He sees the rise of the new right across Europe, especially among the white youth.

    He sees growing white identity in certain sectors of America.

    What he’s really worried about is not ‘tired white blood’ but boiling white blood that is finally waking up and stirring. Napoleon said China is a sleeping giant, so let it sleep.

    Milbank and his ilk are beginning fear that the white race is a stirring giant in Europe and America. There is a growing disconnect between the globalist elites and white masses. Indeed, the lack of white turnout for the GOP in the 2012 was both a sign of white tiredness and white revival. Whites who refused to vote for the GOP were saying they are tired of being taken for dupes and fools. They were angry. While some white conservatives didn’t vote out of apathy or defeatism, many didn’t vote out of anger at Romney, the globalist eggsucker of Wall Street elites. Such whites were growing restless and aggressive, hoping for a true white interest party than the GOP that serves the likes of Goldman Sachs bank and Las Vegas swindlers.

    And indeed, with the recent immigration fiasco, we are seeing angry white blood boiling over and openly protesting. So much for tired blood.

    So, that is what Milbank is really worried about. It’s not because white blood is so tired but because it may boil over and stand up for its rights and power.

    That is what he’s trying to drown out by bringing in more non-white blood so that globo-elites can be play divide and rule.

    His tiresome BS is bogus.

    • Replies: @dcite
    Interesting and, I suspect, true; but what does it have to do with this former gentleman's gender issues?
  40. Trans “woman” can throw a punch and even go for the kill. Hyper aggressive males indeed.
    Transsomething fights black guy in NY subway: http://www.worldstarhiphop.com/videos/video.php?v=wshhgc3a81Fg6bn53a17

  41. Many argue that transsexualism is a bid for attention – the boy or man perceives that women generally get more attention and are valued higher, so he believes illogically that if he puts on a dress, he will be treated with more respect.

    There’s obviously a bit more to (male-to-female) transsexualism than just putting on a dress. The basic idea does not seem inherently illogical – if women are seen as having higher status than men, as they increasingly are these days, then some men will seek to gain that higher status by becoming women.

    Of course this does not account for female-to-male transsexuals.

  42. @Steve Sailer
    Or maybe getting punched in the head a lot.

    Speaking of punches to the head, there’s an interesting aside in this article about pedophiles – https://medium.com/matter/youre-16-youre-a-pedophile-you-dont-want-to-hurt-anyone-what-do-you-do-now-e11ce4b88bdb

    “Another study found that being knocked unconscious before the age of 13 might be a factor [in becoming a pedophile].”

    The article doesn’t provide a source. However, it makes me wonder. Greg Cochran has persuasively argued that homosexuality is not particularly genetic, using the example of identical twins where when one is gay the other is usually straight. Could homosexuality result from a head injury? Or, from another environmental influence… Is it possible that lead pollution in urban areas, which we know caused anomalous criminal behavior, also caused an upswing in homosexual behavior? The timeframes seem to match the 60s/70s freakout.

  43. @B and B
    Not just some, but most. Whereas the activists claim the exact opposite.

    The Blanchard typology is now demonstrated.
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3180619/

    The difference is much more than the paraphilia, also life history and cognitive behavioural traits. Importantly there is a difference in body language (real idiopathic type don't need to transition, its innate) that should be the sole operationalisation, in my view, because its difficult to emulate. FtMs are shown to be phenotypically atypical for their sex with regards to teeth and pelvis, and likely idiopathic MtFs have feminine skeletons as well. If I saw the skeletons of certain (androphile) 'GID' people I've seen in life, I'm sure they couldn't be assigned confidently as male.

    There are people who are born vague in the sex identity department and they have my sympathy. But Frank Maloney wasn’t one of them.

  44. Other than the natural inclination to make love to yourself, why did you get this

  45. @Anonymous
    Steven, this fascinating idea you've discussed (which was advanced by Bailey, and I guess some other guy before him) about there being a very strange sexually motivated form of transexualism is intriguing, but it kind of mystifies me. So the idea is that some transexuals are not women trapped in men's bodies, like the common stereotype. Instead, they are kinky narcissistic he-men who get off on the idea of...what is it again?...of someone pursuing them as a woman? So in order to fully enjoy this fantasy, they want to get their sex parts removed? Is that it?

    But doesn't the removal kind of get in the way of the enjoyment part? And once they get their way, what next?

    I feel like we must be missing some part of the puzzle here. But you do seem to be right that some of these Ts are not exactly shrinking feminine violets. And it is positively hilarious to think of them clashing more and more these days with the standard-issue feminist shrews!

    But doesn’t the removal kind of get in the way of the enjoyment part? And once they get their way, what next?

    I don’t quite understand that either, but apparently there are masochists who enjoy not having sex (not even a handjob) with a dominant mistress who instead tortures them. There are cuckold fetishists who enjoy similar things while watching their wives having sex with another guy. An extreme form of the latter is castration fetish, where the guy – instead of wearing some kind of chastity device – has his organ cut off (apparently there are doctors who do that for them), sometimes only the head of it (I would think this would remove the whole point of the fetish, but apparently they still do that and keep enjoying their wives have sex with others), sometimes even the balls (which might kill sexual desire as such, but apparently not the cuckold fetish), sometimes removing even the residual penis. I know this fetish exists because I have seen it on pictures and it’s not the kind of experience you’ll ever forget. While I would think these people are mentally ill, apparently doctors – instead of treating (or trying to treat) their illness – just cut off their penises. (Same thing for “transsexuals”.) It’s like a person comes to the doctor with a serious depression and the doctor helps him commit suicide.

    (Female masochists seem to be more normal. I am quite sure they usually do have regular sex with their dominant masters, so essentially the whole sadomasochism thing is just a part of the foreplay or something like that. However, there are many women who never marry etc., so even this story might be more complicated. Probably women also have many severe fitness-reducing mental illnesses. I wonder if people have always had such fetishes etc., or if it’s only part of modern life.)

  46. “there are also effeminate-type transsexuals who are usually attracted to men and present as girly even in childhood”

    They are not really effeminate though, their behavior is more childlike. In part, transgender is caused by psychological growth being stopped in childhood.

  47. Feminine women are nurturing and have a lower sex drive – hardly applies to homosexual men or transgenders. They are neotenous, not feminine.

  48. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    Here are some patterns. None of the “sex-organ-surgery” formerly high-T guys broadly referenced on this thread seem like the compassionate type of guys who refuse to look at a lot of porn (i.e. the surgery patients are following yet another silly libertarian trend). On the other hand, apparently none are polygamists, apparently none have either a still-hot wife or a combo of an above-average wife (as to looks) and an above-average mistress, and certainly none seem like they would have had the balls to tell their wives that contraception was not an option. So maybe porn, insufficiently attractive female mates, and contraception are gateway drugs to poor WWT (as it is called here) choices. Taking a principled stand for less porn, better-dressed and prettier women, and less contraception, could make all the difference. Who could be against less porn, prettier women, and less contraception?

  49. Once upon a time, respectable mainstream opinion thought it was perfectly reasonable to jam an ice-pick into the brain of a crazy person and cut a bunch of stuff to make the crazy person “better”. Now we look back in horror at lobotomies and wonder how anyone could have been so stupid.

    Now, respectable opinion seems to be that chopping off the sex organs of a crazy person is a perfectly reasonable way to make the crazy person “better”. How long before we’re looking back in horror at this? These people need loads of therapy and powerful drugs not mutilation in service of their fetish.

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    Lobotomy was actually a highly controversial treatment already at the time, but was used nevertheless. Sex change, on the other hand, seems to be less controversial.
    , @Anonymous Nephew
    "Now, respectable opinion seems to be that chopping off the sex organs of a crazy person is a perfectly reasonable way to make the crazy person “better”."

    In the UK, a perfectly healthy man can ask a doctor to take one of his legs off - and the doctor will do it!

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/625680.stm

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/632856.stm

    "One of the men who had a healthy limb amputated at a Scottish hospital has revealed that he now feels like "a complete person". "
     
  50. The most deplorable one [AKA "The fourth doorman of the apocalypse"] says:

    The DailyBeast says that this is another LGBT Headache for Obama, but it seems like only a Gay issue:

    http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/08/12/iran-s-new-gay-executions.html

  51. “Yeah, sure…”

    What is so surprising about that? I don’t know if you’ve noticed, but conservative heterosexual society is usually not nice to feminine boys. Why is it so shocking that men who act macho all their life would come out as gay in their middle-age? They just faked being something they are not all their life until they couldn’t anymore. The case of this boxing promoter is such a case.

    BTW, one of Thailand’s Muay Thai(Thai kickboxing) champions is gay and married to a man. Equating heterosexuality with masculinity is wrong. Stating that a man who acted macho all his life cannot possibly be gay is extrapolating a pattern and inaccurately making it a law. Heterosexuals do not have a monopoly on masculinity. Plenty of heterosexual men are pretty feminine, working in cubicles at offices and never fighting in their entire lives.

  52. @Polynices
    Once upon a time, respectable mainstream opinion thought it was perfectly reasonable to jam an ice-pick into the brain of a crazy person and cut a bunch of stuff to make the crazy person "better". Now we look back in horror at lobotomies and wonder how anyone could have been so stupid.

    Now, respectable opinion seems to be that chopping off the sex organs of a crazy person is a perfectly reasonable way to make the crazy person "better". How long before we're looking back in horror at this? These people need loads of therapy and powerful drugs not mutilation in service of their fetish.

    Lobotomy was actually a highly controversial treatment already at the time, but was used nevertheless. Sex change, on the other hand, seems to be less controversial.

  53. @Polynices
    Once upon a time, respectable mainstream opinion thought it was perfectly reasonable to jam an ice-pick into the brain of a crazy person and cut a bunch of stuff to make the crazy person "better". Now we look back in horror at lobotomies and wonder how anyone could have been so stupid.

    Now, respectable opinion seems to be that chopping off the sex organs of a crazy person is a perfectly reasonable way to make the crazy person "better". How long before we're looking back in horror at this? These people need loads of therapy and powerful drugs not mutilation in service of their fetish.

    “Now, respectable opinion seems to be that chopping off the sex organs of a crazy person is a perfectly reasonable way to make the crazy person “better”.”

    In the UK, a perfectly healthy man can ask a doctor to take one of his legs off – and the doctor will do it!

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/625680.stm

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/632856.stm

    “One of the men who had a healthy limb amputated at a Scottish hospital has revealed that he now feels like “a complete person”. “

    • Replies: @reiner Tor

    In the UK, a perfectly healthy man can ask a doctor to take one of his legs off – and the doctor will do it!
     
    Instead of sending him to the psychiatry for trying to harm himself. This must be a crazy world.
  54. @Anonymous Nephew
    "Now, respectable opinion seems to be that chopping off the sex organs of a crazy person is a perfectly reasonable way to make the crazy person “better”."

    In the UK, a perfectly healthy man can ask a doctor to take one of his legs off - and the doctor will do it!

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/625680.stm

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/632856.stm

    "One of the men who had a healthy limb amputated at a Scottish hospital has revealed that he now feels like "a complete person". "
     

    In the UK, a perfectly healthy man can ask a doctor to take one of his legs off – and the doctor will do it!

    Instead of sending him to the psychiatry for trying to harm himself. This must be a crazy world.

  55. By the comments here and on the other sites it appears WWT has already been won.Is anyone under 30 able to show some critical thinking when it comes to sexuality and not just repeat the mantra that they recite in school and hear on TV?

    Nick you sputter the party line about he was just being macho to hide being gay to refute Steve’s theory about it being an High-T fetish and power trip,then you contradict your point with another party line to enlighten us that you don’t have to be a sissy to be gay .If you had been paying attention ,instead of stroking your own ego ,No where in the article has it been revealed that he’s gay.

    Your 2nd point I think you were trying to make is about gay men and being good in macho sports?The discussion about sports has been pretaining to masculine sports of an non-sadistic nature.Most people are aware of a sadistic sub group in the gay community that enjoys beating the crap out of someone .That there are hetro sadist that want to be able to dress like a woman to beat up on women has been what led to these threads(It’s in Steve’s opening paragraph).1)Put away the party line2)read the article 3)think about it 4)Then respond.

  56. “A common trait of mental illness is retconning your psychological history.”

    I learned a new word this week, retcon: retroactive continuity. Thanks iSteve! It was not long until the term came to mind while I was watching an interview of a survivor of human trafficking, Kate Price, on our regional cable news station, NECN. Is anyone familiar with her story? It’s pretty sensational (drug addict father prostituting his daughter, etc.) but I haven’t found any news stories via Google to back it up. She seemed pretty blasé about her ordeal which I find quite striking after seeing Connie Francis interviewed by Bill O’Reilly last night. Connie looks like someone who has really suffered.

  57. A lot of people after heart attacks and heart surgery will get in a strange mental place.Like Robin Williams.For society to cheer a person on to mutilate his bits instead of encouraging him to seek some form of rehabilitation from the heart attack seems barbaric and cruel.

  58. @Priss Factor
    What Milbank is really worried about.

    He looks at the resurgence of Russian nationalism among Russians who were supposed to be beaten in the 90s.
    He sees the rise of the new right across Europe, especially among the white youth.

    He sees growing white identity in certain sectors of America.

    What he's really worried about is not 'tired white blood' but boiling white blood that is finally waking up and stirring. Napoleon said China is a sleeping giant, so let it sleep.

    Milbank and his ilk are beginning fear that the white race is a stirring giant in Europe and America. There is a growing disconnect between the globalist elites and white masses. Indeed, the lack of white turnout for the GOP in the 2012 was both a sign of white tiredness and white revival. Whites who refused to vote for the GOP were saying they are tired of being taken for dupes and fools. They were angry. While some white conservatives didn't vote out of apathy or defeatism, many didn't vote out of anger at Romney, the globalist eggsucker of Wall Street elites. Such whites were growing restless and aggressive, hoping for a true white interest party than the GOP that serves the likes of Goldman Sachs bank and Las Vegas swindlers.

    And indeed, with the recent immigration fiasco, we are seeing angry white blood boiling over and openly protesting. So much for tired blood.

    So, that is what Milbank is really worried about. It's not because white blood is so tired but because it may boil over and stand up for its rights and power.

    That is what he's trying to drown out by bringing in more non-white blood so that globo-elites can be play divide and rule.

    His tiresome BS is bogus.

    Interesting and, I suspect, true; but what does it have to do with this former gentleman’s gender issues?

  59. “Plenty of heterosexual men are pretty feminine, working in cubicles at offices and never fighting in their entire lives.”

    Heterosexual men can be beta males, but they can not be flaming queens like the Jack McFarland character in “Will & Grace” for example, now that is a feminine male.

    Using your definition of “feminine male”, any man who is not a UFC fighter, a cartel member who cuts people’s heads off, or a navy seal for example is a “feminine male”.

    But most people’s definition of feminine male is the one from the former, not your’s the latter.

  60. “Feminine women are nurturing and have a lower sex drive”

    So slutty female whores who bang a lot of guys are not feminine ? What are they butch ?

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