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From the New York Times:

How Tech Companies Lose Women During the Hiring Process
By KATHARINE ZALESKI AUG. 15, 2017

I am the co-founder of a company that helps clients find ways to diversify their work force. We recently set up an interview at a major company for a senior African-American woman software engineer. After meeting with the hiring panel, she withdrew her application, telling us she felt demeaned by the all-white male group that failed to ask her any questions about her coding skills. She described how one of the men had made it clear to her that she wasn’t a cultural fit and that therefore they didn’t need to proceed with technical questions.

I hear stories like this regularly, as I work with companies in Silicon Valley and beyond who want to bring more women onto their tech teams. Higher-ups declare their intention to hire more women. But the actual hiring is still all too rare.

There’s a continuing debate about the reasons for the lack of diversity in the tech sector, including candidate pools that are mostly male, and stubborn, superficial notions of what it means to be a “cultural fit” for an organization — the template for which is often based on young white men.

Young white men … when is somebody going to finally do something about them?

… Katharine Zaleski is the president and a co-founder of PowerToFly.com.

Does anybody actually believe the conventional wisdom about how Silicon Valley firms are leaving money on the table by not hiring as many women engineers as men engineers enough to put their money where their mouths are?

Simple logic suggests that if the rest of America is badly underestimating the value of women engineers, then you could make a fortune by hiring women.

Yet, in the real world, the companies that get ultra-rich, like Google and Apple, while they may parrot feminist talking points, behave as if they believe everything James Damore pointed out.

All you’d have to do to prove James Damore wrong is to get rich by behaving the opposite of what he advises.

Doesn’t anybody want to get rich?

I guess not …

For example, Katharine Zaleski knows all these awesome African-American women software engineers. And yet, she keeps leaving million dollar bills lying on the sidewalk by trying to talk other firms into hiring them rather than hiring them herself.

Now, if we didn’t know that Katharine Zaleski was on the side of Good, we might assume she’s a Trump-like blowhard self-promoter using a current event to promote her for-profit business. But, obviously, she’s not, because she a Woman and, as she tells us, she’s on the Side of Women. So she must be trying to unload all these genius women on other firms because she’s an idealist who wants to help people.

 
    []
  1. Hank Stram picked a few million up off the grid iron. After winning two Super Bowls by arbitraging the under representation of black pro football talent the rest of the league got the memo and Hank Stram resumed being the average pro football coach he was.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    The Brooklyn Dodgers went to six World Series in ten years, 1947-1956, by being out ahead of everybody else in hiring black baseball players, including six MVPs: Jackie Robinson 1949, Roy Campanella, 1951 1953 1955, and Don Newcombe 1956.
    , @grapesoda

    After winning two Super Bowls by arbitraging the under representation of black pro football talent
     
    Were you trying to say "arbitrating"?

    http://www.dictionary.com/browse/arbitrate

    I have seen lots of people make this error. The reason why people make this mistake is because the noun form, "arbitrage," is more common than the verb form. So they clumsily try to make arbitrage into a verb, when it already has a verb form, "arbitrate," which is where the more common term "arbitrage" comes from.
    , @Njguy73
    Actually, the Chiefs were 1 for 2 in Super Bowls. Lost to the Packers in '67, beat the Vikings in '70. But other than that, you're right.

    Unless you're counting the 1962 AFL Champion Dallas Texans, in which case never mind.

    Come on, cut me some slack. If I can't be a nitpicking sports trivia geek here, where can I be?

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  2. kihowi says:

    Young men are hated by the establishment much, the only reason that they’ve not all been replaced by women must be that women are extraordinarily bad at what men can do.

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    • Replies: @Travis
    the women who can do these jobs would still rather not work in tech. Since the goal of females is to marry a higher status man, it is more logical to take a less stressful job and have more free time to obtain a husband. It would be foolish for most American females to work in tech, forced to sit in cubicles among mostly Asian men.
    , @TomSchmidt
    Not quite. Explaining the psychology of women in tech might illuminate.

    Carole Dweck is a worldwide expert on what she called Mindset, in her book of the same name. In other words, she is the Larry Page or Sergey Brin of the field. On pages 77-78 of that book, she relates the following:

    Many females have a problem not only with stereotypes, but with other people's opinion of them in general. They trust them too much.
    One day, I went into the drugstore in Hawaii … and, after fetching my items, I went to wait in line. There were two women together in front of me waiting to pay. …(A)t some point I decided to get my money ready for when my turn came. So I walked up, put the items way on the side of the counter, and started to gather up the bills that were strewn through my purse. The two women went berserk. I explained that in no way was I trying to cut in front of them. … I thought the matter was resolved, but when I left the store, they were waiting for me. They got in my face and yelled, "you're a bad-mannered person!"
    …(T)hey had a strange and disturbing effect on me, and I had a hard time shaking off their verdict.
    This vulnerability affects many of the most able, high achieving females. Why should this be? When they’re little, these girls are often so perfect and they delight in everyone's telling them so. They're so well behaved, they're so cute, they are so helpful, and they're so precocious. Girls learn to trust people's estimates of them. "Gee, everyone is so nice to me; if they criticize me, it must be true." Even females at the top universities in the country say that other people’s opinions are a good way to know their abilities.
    … The fixed mindset, plus stereotyping, plus women's trust in people's assessment: I think we can begin to understand why there's a gender gap in math and science.
     
    She goes on to discuss how boys are constantly insulting each other, and how they have to learn to fail and pick themselves up. So it's not that women, in Dweck's eyes, are as you say "bad" at tech: they're just fragile to failure, instead of being robust to it.
    , @dr kill
    Men are better than women at everything, including being women.
  3. You don’t make money by hiring women…

    …You make money by selling to women.

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    • Replies: @Yak-15
    ***Buying and selling women***
    , @Njguy73

    You don’t make money by hiring women…

    …You make money by selling to women.
     
    FTW
    , @elmer t. jones
    The money right now is in selling "STEM" edu-products to parents and teachers. Your product page should show girls putting together science experiments and generally being fascinated by cool electro-mechanical devices. Boys are to be shown taking direction from the girls.
    , @Jenner Ickham Errican
    Women Leaving Million Dollar Bills on the Sidewalk

    … Katharine Zaleski is the president and a co-founder of PowerToFly.com.
     
    I’m reminded of Steve’s excerpts from Michael Blowhard about women and weightlessness vis-à-vis ideal self-image:

    I think guys often forget what a weighty and earthbound thing it can be, being a gal. There’s so much dreariness to contend with: fatbags, hormones, moods, emotional agonies, etc. Women are weighed down by a lot of burdens, or at least they feel that they are […]

    The gals in the pages of fashion magazines and catalogs aren’t weighed down by anything, not even flesh. They burst out of cabs, they leap onto sidewalks, they let loose with irrepressible guffaws …
     
    Quite an entertaining thread in the “World’s Best Pixie” post: Steve at his sarcastic best, commenter “Photog” vs. everyone, etc.
  4. I hear stories like this regularly

    So do we all, sweetheart. Odd thing is, though, they’re always self-reported anecdotes with a grand total of no corroboration whatever.

    Not that any is needed, mind you. No sirree. “Stories” which dovetail neatly with mass-media narratives serve as their own corroboration, and I’m shocked anyone would think otherwise.

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    • Replies: @Kylie
    My thoughts exactly, Kyle.

    "She described how one of the men had made it clear to her that she wasn’t a cultural fit and that therefore they didn’t need to proceed with technical questions."

    I'd love to know exactly how that man "made it clear" to her that she wasn't a "cultural fit".
  5. @james wilson
    Hank Stram picked a few million up off the grid iron. After winning two Super Bowls by arbitraging the under representation of black pro football talent the rest of the league got the memo and Hank Stram resumed being the average pro football coach he was.

    The Brooklyn Dodgers went to six World Series in ten years, 1947-1956, by being out ahead of everybody else in hiring black baseball players, including six MVPs: Jackie Robinson 1949, Roy Campanella, 1951 1953 1955, and Don Newcombe 1956.

    Read More
    • Replies: @unit472
    Perhaps a baseball stat geek would know if left handed batters have a ( small ) batting average advantage over right handed batters owing to their being a step closer to first base and other idiosyncracies of stadium layouts, predominance of right handed pitchers etc.
    , @anonymous
    Yet they only won one WS during that span. Meanwhile the pale Yankees were the dominant team of that era.
    , @Bean Towner
    Conversely, the Boston Red Sox were the last team to integrate. Curse of the Bambino, indeed.
  6. NickG says:

    Simple logic suggests that if the rest of America is badly underestimating the value of women engineers,

    No, simple observation and logic suggests that being a computer programmer is a fairly cognitively loaded or ‘g’ loaded field. Likely with effective practitioners being north of one standard deviation above the white mean in cognitive ability. This corresponds to an IQ of 115 as a minimum. I’d be willing to wager the cohort of coders that work at the likes of Google, Microsoft, Facebook etcetera, will all be well north of that.

    Given the American black mean IQ of 85, and taking 115 as the minimum programming cut off. Normal distribution gives us a pool of black females potentially up to snuff of about 2%. Black females represent about 6.5% of the population, 2% of 6.5 gives a pool of 0.13% of the general population. This is before interest – and cutting code doesn’t strike oneself as within the domain of natural interest for your typical sistah, nor does it take account of filtering for age etcetera. Nor is it taking into account that every corporate out there is fighting tooth and nail for such black cognitive talent as there is.

    So unless you go for the race-preference window dressing, seat warmer approach, whereby people are appointed, given the title and paid but can’t actually do the job, requiring a shadow headcount of competent contractors – which is the situation in South Africa, then black female coders in elite institutions are going to be about as rare as ethnically Korean NBA stars or South Asian sprint champions.

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    • Replies: @Lot
    If true, the woman was likely Igbo, who could easily be the majority of blacks at corporate STEM jobs.
    , @EdgeSlider
    All good. But here is a thought. I have discovered that Black Africa may not be as homogeneous as outsiders think it is. It looks like some elite tribes in places like Nigeria, Uganda and Rwanda show much better cognitive performance than the the average. Perhaps shades of India there? Anecdotally, I worked with a Nigerian programmer, here in Silicon Valley. He was real good. Was very quiet, disciplined and efficient. A good guy.
    , @Jack D
    Given the statistics above, what are the odds that a black woman interviewing for this programming job (or ANY programming job) is really the best available candidate if the job is paying a market wage?
  7. neutral says:

    The thing with these kind of stories, that I have wondered about for some time now, is if the people writing these stories genuinely believe their narrative. I can understand they want to be polite and not raise thorny questions about racial realities, but do they really believe that there are no black female chess world champions or maths competition winners because a clique of white men are preventing them from doing this? Has anyone here ever personally known a liberal well enough to ask them if that they really believe this.

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    • Replies: @Yak-15
    Yes, some literally believe this tripe about racism, sexism, etc causing all disparities - not the biological realities of evolving for thousands of generations apart. I used to seat directly between two at my job. For example, one actually believed that Ronda Rousey could win a fight with Floyd Mayweather.

    I talked some reason into this same character by citing the extreme cognitive success of Jews relative to their tiny numbers. But I am not sure if he has progressed beyond that point.

    The delusion of the liberal poz is real, rife and complete.
    , @Bill
    How would you tell what they really believe? What the smarter ones say they believe is that there are subtle and not-so-subtle social cues which women pick up on and which communicate to them that, say, coding is not for them. Thus, the necessity of "Gurrlz who Code" and the like.
    , @NickG

    Has anyone here ever personally known a liberal well enough to ask them if that they really believe this
     
    A goodly few, and in the wee small hours, after drink is taken, in my experience, invariably they don't .
    , @Jack D
    No they are a little more subtle than that. What they would tell you is that girls are steered from an early age into playing with Barbies, etc. so most of them never get as far as math competitions and if they do get there, they are subtly discouraged and so on. They realize that the days of overt discrimination are largely over but they think that girls are such fragile creatures that the most subtle discouragement accounts for all the difference. But somehow in place like Iran when they make women wear burkas, women are not discouraged from STEM, only in the West.
  8. After meeting with the hiring panel, she withdrew her application, telling us she felt demeaned by the all-white male group that failed to ask her any questions about her coding skills.

    Generally, your skills aren’t in question at that point. If you’re interviewing for a senior position and have a strong resume, it would be more demeaning to test whether your basic skills are up to snuff. But then she’d complain that all-white, male interviewers “questioned and tested her coding skills, despite her proven track record and accomplishments.” No matter what, it’s never the diversity candidate’s fault she didn’t get hired.

    Simple logic suggests that if the rest of America is badly underestimating the value of women engineers, then you could make a fortune by hiring women.

    This is the exact same logic that undermines the gender wage gap hypothesis: if firms could pay women less than men for the same amount of work (both quantity and quality), we should expect firms to hire as many women as they can. If a firm isn’t maximizing its profit, it’s not 1. not going to survive very long and 2. not have very many shareholders.

    On a relate note: Does anybody know why the specific focus is on closing the gender gap in the tech industry? I don’t get it, it doesn’t seem that there’s a big push in any other industry. My suspicion is that since the big companies are in highly liberal areas, they’ve been targeted for the diversity issue. I wonder if this will push companies to (eventually and slowly) move out to more conservative areas once it starts eating into their profits.

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    • Replies: @TheJester
    What is interesting is that there is no push to "diversify" the banking industry and the Federal Reserve Bank with blacks, women, Hispanics, and the LGBTxyz crowd. I guess those who control the banking industry (and what else?) see no value in establishing a caste system of affirmative action quotas where people are assigned semi-hereditary roles and status regardless of qualifications based on gender, race, religion, cultural heritage, and other immutables.

    Still, it's strange. It is almost like there is a plan to loot lucrative industries in serial order while others remain immune from attack. When disparities such as this exist, I look for ways to pull the veil away to uncover which "Wizards of Oz" are hard at work trying to manipulate our attentions and our perceptions of reality.

    Most important, given the current attacks, I wonder who in the financial community are "shorting" the tech industries. This might tell us all we need to know about "why now" related to the attacks on Silicon Valley companies with their predictable outcomes.
    , @anon
    Some theories:

    1) SJWs actually believe coding is a good career and think they are doing God's work (they should try cutting code for pay for a while and see if it's all it's cracked up to be).

    2) The old supply'n'demand for coding talent: Facegle, Appazon, etc. want to double the labor pool and lower costs.

    3) Male nerds are a target-rich environment that are too low-T to actually fight back.
    , @Harry Baldwin
    The thing that's so bizarro about the leftist worldview is that they think that white corporate heads are reluctant to hire a well-qualified black woman, when in fact they would be desperate to hire a black woman who they were confident could do the work. It would be enormously to their benefit.

    I used to work at an advertising agency that kept trying to bring blacks into the accounts and creative departments. Top management was earnestly liberal and our clients would have been pleased to see some NAMs in our ranks. Unfortunately, these hires never seemed to work out. They were nice people, had good social skills, dressed well, but despite ample mentoring just couldn't cut it.

    I read a book about the New York City Stakeout Unit that operated in the late 1960s, early 1970s. All the armed robbers they shot were black males. One of the officers said that they were always aware of the issue, knew it would become a problem, and were desperate to take down some whites so they could make the stats look better. The problem was, there just weren't enough whites robbing convenience stores. As the stats became public after congressional hearings, the unit was shut down.
    , @Jack D
    This was my thought exactly - it was a heads I win, tails you lose situation - if they HAD asked her about her programming skills, then HOW DARE you question my credentials. When you don't hire someone like this you are dodging a bullet because when you fire them they are going to sue you no matter what.

    she felt demeaned by the all-white male group
     
    Just the very existence of an all-white male group is demeaning in and of itself. Nothing that they could have said or done would have made them less demeaning. If they were nice to her, then they were patronizing. If they questioned her sharply, then they were being hard on a woman of color. Whatever they did or did not do would have been wrong due to their unbearable whiteness.
    , @AnotherDad

    But then she’d complain that all-white, male interviewers “questioned and tested her coding skills, despite her proven track record and accomplishments.”
     
    Good catch al-Gharaniq. This just does jump out at one. You could get it from a black man, but from a black woman it's a given. Geez, how many times have we heard this. How many times have we heard "demeaned" in just this context.

    That said, i'm not sure she isn't correct. It depends upon the level of her "senior engineer"hood. Could be that the company was looking at her specifically because they wanted to get more "diverse", but in fact thought she'd take offense at coding questions being "demeaning" or thought they'd unmask her mediocrity, and were really just interviewing to see if she was a "fit"--wouldn't be too big of a pain in the ass.
    , @the cruncher

    If you’re interviewing for a senior position and have a strong resume, it would be more demeaning to test whether your basic skills are up to snuff.

     

    Not at the companies I've been at in Silicon Valley. If you're senior, well you can code like someone senior, and you can do it on paper, whiteboard, or laptop. If you care enough, Steve Yegge (formerly of Amazon, now at Google) has a famous post, here: https://sites.google.com/site/steveyegge2/five-essential-phone-screen-questions about the hiring he did for Amazon. There were people who had great resumes, even patents, but had lived in sinecures for too long and weren't especially good at coding anymore, if they ever were.

    So no, not asking about coding, and claiming 'cultural mismatch', was the dismissal she thought it was. I can believe that all the more if it was a startup in Silicon Valley startup - I've gotten the impression they can be especially self-regarding about their 'culture'.

  9. It *was* possible to get rich by hiring women, once.

    “She wanted to create job opportunities for women with dependents, and predominantly employed women, with only 3 male programmers in the first 300 staff, until the Sex Discrimination Act 1975 made that practice illegal. She adopted the name, Steve, to help her in the male-dominated business world”

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Shirley

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    • Replies: @Peripatetic commenter
    I think there is more, or perhaps less, to that story than meets the eye.

    I have worked with female programmers. The best tend to be East Asians. Good ones do exist, but they are few and far between and if she was working with women with dependents they would have a lot of other concerns. Then there are the other issues of an office full of women.

    I highly doubt it is possible to get rich employing female programmers unless you are milking some sort of affirmative action fund.
    , @barlon mrando
    I know older retired women who are experts in business computer programming but don't know how to use the internet. Also they criticise present day digital solutions citing 1980s tech problems based on that era's limitations. We are trying to digitise a bunch of retirees' hobby club and meeting all sorts of resistance because of their extremely narrow understanding. It would be easier if they knew nothing.
  10. Clyde says:

    a senior African-American woman software engineer…….

    rarer than hen’s teeth

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  11. unit472 says:
    @Steve Sailer
    The Brooklyn Dodgers went to six World Series in ten years, 1947-1956, by being out ahead of everybody else in hiring black baseball players, including six MVPs: Jackie Robinson 1949, Roy Campanella, 1951 1953 1955, and Don Newcombe 1956.

    Perhaps a baseball stat geek would know if left handed batters have a ( small ) batting average advantage over right handed batters owing to their being a step closer to first base and other idiosyncracies of stadium layouts, predominance of right handed pitchers etc.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Njguy73
    If you're interested, the work of Bill James will prove useful. Especially park effects. For example, it's clear to anyone who watches the game how Fenway Park favors hitters.
    , @Abe

    Perhaps a baseball stat geek would know if left handed batters have a ( small ) batting average advantage over right handed batters owing to their being a step closer to first base
     
    This was basically Ichiro Suzuki's MLB career (OK I exaggerate... a bit). If you ever watched him bat you'd see how he used his proximity to first to basically take a couple steps up the line WHILE still waiting for the pitch by using a sort of leaning/falling stance toward first. This of course severely reduced his power, but since he was trying to do a sort of "Baltimore Chop" hit toward third it didn't really matter, and the more restrained swing this required ensured he'd put the ball in play more often, even on difficult pitches.
    , @Hehe
    Look into Right-eye dominance in picking up the baseball too. There has been a disproportionate number of natural right handed people (throw right) with right eye dominance who learn to bat lefty who have won batting champoonships. George Brett, maybe?
    , @FPD72
    Any advantage that left handed batters receive from being closer to first base and from facing proportionally more opposite handed pitchers is at least partially offset by the wider strike zone that umpires call against them. Studies have shown a strike zone that extends a couple of inches more from the outside edge of the plate than is called against right handed batters. You can see this for yourself with the strike zone box that is projected on TV.
  12. When an interview team of actual software engineers encounters a black female candidate purporting to be a “senior” software engineer, they know that hiring her would prove to be a huge mistake. Even considering the remote chance that she might in fact be qualified, they know that she’ll be nothing but trouble.

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    • Agree: Clyde
    • Replies: @Bubba
    You got that right! Black women are particularly litigious and usually an HR nightmare.
  13. I have a feeling that the reason that the African-American woman withdrew her application after the interview was a version of Dan Ackroyd’s observation in the original Ghostbusters: “I’ve been in the private sector. It’s hell. These people expect results!”

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  14. Clyde says:

    Katharine Zaleski has done nothing tech as I could read.

    All she is concerned is with is pushing her charges (female clients) onto unsuspecting companies. Suspecting ones too. And her clients will be working remotely which usually translates into scam.

    But perhaps companies like this way of pushing up diversity numbers….they never have to look at the incompetent they hired.

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  15. internet history podcast has some terrific content. Not perfect since the host is a latent liberal. Here is a recent episode with Don Melton, the manager of the team which created the apple safari web browser.

    http://www.internethistorypodcast.com/2017/07/don-melton-on-apple-safari-webkit-and-netscape/

    Melton praises time and again the brilliance of the software engineers who worked for him. Calls Brendan Eich a friend. Judging by his twitter feed and website, he is a liberal. But has nothing to say on women in tech.

    There is just no way women can do high level software work. Try reading a regular expression.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regular_expression

    The match results of the pattern
    (?<=\.) {2,}(?=[A-Z]).
    At least two spaces are matched, but only if they occur directly after a period (.) and before an upper case letter.

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    • Replies: @res

    There is just no way women can do high level software work. Try reading a regular expression.
     
    As a programmer I disagree. It is just that the women who can and want to do such work are rarer than the men. As I understand it, the female representation in Google engineering is about 20%. That is a 4x underrepresentation. For anyone who knows about statistical distributions, I think tail effects can explain that pretty easily given differences like
    - d = 1.18 for people-things preference: http://slatestarcodex.com/2017/08/07/contra-grant-on-exaggerated-differences/
    - d = 0.73 for the mental rotation component of spatial visualization: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7724690
    For anyone who wants to know more about the meaning of Cohen's d do a web search or see my comment: http://www.unz.com/jthompson/google-sex/#comment-1963141

    I think both of those characteristics are important to programming and are selected for (if anyone wants to argue against that, feel free to offer a real counterargument). If you are selecting at the 2 SD level (~ top 2%) then a d of 1 results in about a 16x (!) overrepresentation: http://emilkirkegaard.dk/understanding_statistics/?app=tail_effects
    (a d of 0.73 results in about a 7x overrepresentation over 2SD)

    Notice that the overrepresentation becomes greater the further out on the tail you go. This is why you might get an occasional female finalist in the Google Code Jam (say), but we have not seen any female winners yet.
    , @Johanus de Morgateroyde

    There is just no way women can do high level software work. Try reading a regular expression.
     
    I've known plenty of women who are regular-expression capable. They just have no interest in it. Generally, women who are smart enough to write a regular expression are smart enough to become a lawyer or a veterinarian, which generally appeals to them more.
  16. She described how one of the men had made it clear to her that she wasn’t a cultural fit and that therefore they didn’t need to proceed with technical questions.

    stuffthatdidnthappen.txt

    “Sorry, colored lady, we cannot hire you here and pay you handsomely for your work but would prefer that you bring a lawsuit against us so that we can pay you without the bother of your having to do actual work for us.”

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    • Replies: @Abe

    stuffthatdidnthappen.txt
     
    Exactly. The lady writing the article is a another Diversity Inc. parasite, but her income stream is pretty easy to understand- she makes money from finding "suitable" candidates for companies, and gets paid for every successful hire, plus almost certainly for every referral as well. So what she is saying is this company of deplorable Haven Monahan-esque bro-grammers paid between 3 and 4 figures just for the kicks of humiliating her brilliant, successful, funny, brave, cute, RISE!, Hidden Figure, they-go-low-but-she-go-high African-American senior programmer.

    Tawara Brawley made up her whole abduction story to avoid getting beaten for staying out all night. So what was the real deal here? No-existent or not big enough stock options package for her tastes? Frightened by the complex nature of the work, even though by not asking any technical questions the company was signally they were more than willing to carry her? Her potential co-workers (as represented by the hiring panel) too nerdy and unattractive?
    , @Olorin
    I agree this didn't happen. It's a lie.

    But to be generous I'll call it a religious parable on order of Lilies of the Field and Falling Sparrows and Mustard Seeds and such.

    It's a good religious parable because it makes emotional impact, not logical sense. It requires suspension of belief in reality to lend it any credibility in the first place (for the exact reason you noted).

    Having said that, is she basically saying that only technical competence should be determined in hiring?

    I'm in.

    She won't be as soon as someone explains things to her in forward-time terms.
  17. Back in the 60s/70s (when programming was still an excellent career option for women) a smart refugee to the UK picked up a lot of ten pound notes by hiring married women programmers who needed flexible hours. Ironically she had to stop when sex discrimination laws were passed. She changed her given name of Vera to Steve so that potential client companies would take her mailshots more seriously.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Shirley

    “I recruited professionally qualified women who’d left the industry on marriage, or when their first child was expected and structured them into a home-working organization. We pioneered the concept of women going back into the workforce after a career break. We pioneered all sorts of new, flexible work methods: job shares, profit-sharing, and eventually, co-ownership when I took a quarter of the company into the hands of the staff at no cost to anyone but me.

    I started to challenge the conventions of the time, even to the extent of changing my name from “Stephanie” to “Steve” in my business development letters, so as to get through the door before anyone realized that he was a she.

    My company, called Freelance Programmers, and that’s precisely what it was, couldn’t have started smaller: on the dining room table, and financed by the equivalent of 100 dollars in today’s terms, and financed by my labor and by borrowing against the house. My interests were scientific, the market was commercial — things such as payroll, which I found rather boring. So I had to compromise with operational research work, which had the intellectual challenge that interested me and the commercial value that was valued by the clients: things like scheduling freight trains, time-tabling buses, stock control, lots and lots of stock control. And eventually, the work came in. We disguised the domestic and part-time nature of the staff by offering fixed prices, one of the very first to do so. And who would have guessed that the programming of the black box flight recorder of Supersonic Concord would have been done by a bunch of women working in their own homes.

    An early project was to develop software standards on management control protocols. And software was and still is a maddeningly hard-to-control activity, so that was enormously valuable. We used the standards ourselves, we were even paid to update them over the years, and eventually, they were adopted by NATO. Our programmers — remember, only women, including gay and transgender — worked with pencil and paper to develop flowcharts defining each task to be done. And they then wrote code, usually machine code, sometimes binary code, which was then sent by mail to a data center to be punched onto paper tape or card and then re-punched, in order to verify it. All this, before it ever got near a computer. That was programming in the early 1960s.”

    https://www.ted.com/talks/dame_stephanie_shirley_why_do_ambitious_women_have_flat_heads/transcript#t-274028

    I think the “including gay and transgender” may be a bit of retconning (remember she was hiring married women with kids), though I’m sure the profile of women assembly language programmers included some girls who looked and dressed like boys. Anyone remember the “IBM flowchart template”, which you used to produce a high-level diagram of what the code would do?

    Re the main article, I can imagined another scenario playing out.

    “Woman claims all-male interview panel bombarded her with intimidating and abstruse technical questions which they would not have asked a male candidate”.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Chrisnonymous
    Steve? Surely, you're joking.
    , @Peripatetic commenter

    And they then wrote code, usually machine code, sometimes binary code,
     
    So, maybe I am too young, because I wasn't programming in the '60s, but does that not smell fishy?
  18. It is much safer (from a legal risk-management POV) never to hire someone from a highly-protected class, than to hire and then try to fire someone from a highly-protected class.

    And since many applicants from the highly-protected class are likely to have resumes inflated by upstream affirmative-action, and unrealistic views of their own skills, many will fail to meet standards once hired.

    When in doubt, don’t hire has become the safest route to take.

    This is the perverse and paradoxical effect of affirmative action.

    Read More
  19. Travis says:
    @kihowi
    Young men are hated by the establishment much, the only reason that they've not all been replaced by women must be that women are extraordinarily bad at what men can do.

    the women who can do these jobs would still rather not work in tech. Since the goal of females is to marry a higher status man, it is more logical to take a less stressful job and have more free time to obtain a husband. It would be foolish for most American females to work in tech, forced to sit in cubicles among mostly Asian men.

    Read More
  20. Art Deco says:

    Now, if we didn’t know that Katharine Zaleski was on the side of Good, we might assume she’s a Trump-like blowhard self-promoter using a current event to promote her for-profit business. But, obviously, she’s not, because she a Woman and, as she tells us, she’s on the Side of Women. So she must be trying to unload all these genius women on other firms because she’s an idealist who wants to help people.

    Best I can tell, she’s in the personnel business, not the software business. (Someone once said consultants spend most of their time and effort hustling their clients. She seems like that type).

    As we speak, there are 58,000 bachelors degrees awarded in a typical year in computer science, information technology, and computer engineering. About 16.5% are awarded to women (and 2.7% to black women). However, women account for 23% of those employed in one of the 15 detailed occupations which make up the IT trade (and, no, data-entry is not one of the 15). This whole controversy is nonsense.

    Read More
  21. “Chip Smith III is co-founder and CEO of a consultancy that helps companies hire more White Men”

    Read More
  22. TheJester says:
    @al-Gharaniq

    After meeting with the hiring panel, she withdrew her application, telling us she felt demeaned by the all-white male group that failed to ask her any questions about her coding skills.
     
    Generally, your skills aren't in question at that point. If you're interviewing for a senior position and have a strong resume, it would be more demeaning to test whether your basic skills are up to snuff. But then she'd complain that all-white, male interviewers "questioned and tested her coding skills, despite her proven track record and accomplishments." No matter what, it's never the diversity candidate's fault she didn't get hired.

    Simple logic suggests that if the rest of America is badly underestimating the value of women engineers, then you could make a fortune by hiring women.
     
    This is the exact same logic that undermines the gender wage gap hypothesis: if firms could pay women less than men for the same amount of work (both quantity and quality), we should expect firms to hire as many women as they can. If a firm isn't maximizing its profit, it's not 1. not going to survive very long and 2. not have very many shareholders.

    On a relate note: Does anybody know why the specific focus is on closing the gender gap in the tech industry? I don't get it, it doesn't seem that there's a big push in any other industry. My suspicion is that since the big companies are in highly liberal areas, they've been targeted for the diversity issue. I wonder if this will push companies to (eventually and slowly) move out to more conservative areas once it starts eating into their profits.

    What is interesting is that there is no push to “diversify” the banking industry and the Federal Reserve Bank with blacks, women, Hispanics, and the LGBTxyz crowd. I guess those who control the banking industry (and what else?) see no value in establishing a caste system of affirmative action quotas where people are assigned semi-hereditary roles and status regardless of qualifications based on gender, race, religion, cultural heritage, and other immutables.

    Still, it’s strange. It is almost like there is a plan to loot lucrative industries in serial order while others remain immune from attack. When disparities such as this exist, I look for ways to pull the veil away to uncover which “Wizards of Oz” are hard at work trying to manipulate our attentions and our perceptions of reality.

    Most important, given the current attacks, I wonder who in the financial community are “shorting” the tech industries. This might tell us all we need to know about “why now” related to the attacks on Silicon Valley companies with their predictable outcomes.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Forbes
    Medicine, law, and MBA programs are already ~50/50 male/female. It's engineering school that's 80/20 male/female. Also, due to the riches of Dell, Microsoft, Apple, Google, Oracle, Facebook, et al., tech is considered prestige--so a share of these stock market windfalls should go to women...
    , @Achmed E. Newman
    That's an interesting idea, Jester. I give the banskters credit for being shrewd and ruthless, but not that clever. I could be wrong though. I imagine there's nothing illegal about siccing BIG-PC on some of the companies you want to short. Of course, whatever they are going to do can be made legal one way or another.

    It'd be cool if the big banks and financial firms became at odds with one another and started to sic the government on each other. It would be like neighbors who get on the wrong foot, and each one calls someone from the city to complain about an old car in the yard or raggedy couches on the porch. The only one who wins is the house city.
  23. Yak-15 says:
    @Buzz Mohawk
    You don't make money by hiring women...

    ...You make money by selling to women.

    ***Buying and selling women***

    Read More
  24. Read More
    • Replies: @DFH
    The story is bizarre since I've read research before suggesting the exact opposite

    http://www.pnas.org/content/108/4/1262.full

    Just another case of the irreplicability of social 'science'?
    , @Joe Schmoe
    And what makes migrants kinder to western people?
  25. Arclight says:

    The Atlantic periodically published pieces concern-trolling about how the lack of gender and ethnic diversity might be holding back huge tech companies like Uber, which is always funny.

    It’s possible the black female engineer was very qualified, but still the risk of hiring her is that if she ever feels like she is not appreciated they run the risk of a discrimination complaint, which they certainly won’t get with an aspergery white male. Sort of like the failure of “ban the box” efforts to blind employers to people’s criminal history. In the absence of the ability to evaluate this characteristic, employers just fall back on broad assumptions about criminality so blacks are turned down for interviews at higher rates than before.

    Read More
  26. Yak-15 says:
    @neutral
    The thing with these kind of stories, that I have wondered about for some time now, is if the people writing these stories genuinely believe their narrative. I can understand they want to be polite and not raise thorny questions about racial realities, but do they really believe that there are no black female chess world champions or maths competition winners because a clique of white men are preventing them from doing this? Has anyone here ever personally known a liberal well enough to ask them if that they really believe this.

    Yes, some literally believe this tripe about racism, sexism, etc causing all disparities – not the biological realities of evolving for thousands of generations apart. I used to seat directly between two at my job. For example, one actually believed that Ronda Rousey could win a fight with Floyd Mayweather.

    I talked some reason into this same character by citing the extreme cognitive success of Jews relative to their tiny numbers. But I am not sure if he has progressed beyond that point.

    The delusion of the liberal poz is real, rife and complete.

    Read More
  27. Njguy73 says:
    @unit472
    Perhaps a baseball stat geek would know if left handed batters have a ( small ) batting average advantage over right handed batters owing to their being a step closer to first base and other idiosyncracies of stadium layouts, predominance of right handed pitchers etc.

    If you’re interested, the work of Bill James will prove useful. Especially park effects. For example, it’s clear to anyone who watches the game how Fenway Park favors hitters.

    Read More
  28. Njguy73 says:
    @Buzz Mohawk
    You don't make money by hiring women...

    ...You make money by selling to women.

    You don’t make money by hiring women…

    …You make money by selling to women.

    FTW

    Read More
  29. anon says: • Disclaimer
    @al-Gharaniq

    After meeting with the hiring panel, she withdrew her application, telling us she felt demeaned by the all-white male group that failed to ask her any questions about her coding skills.
     
    Generally, your skills aren't in question at that point. If you're interviewing for a senior position and have a strong resume, it would be more demeaning to test whether your basic skills are up to snuff. But then she'd complain that all-white, male interviewers "questioned and tested her coding skills, despite her proven track record and accomplishments." No matter what, it's never the diversity candidate's fault she didn't get hired.

    Simple logic suggests that if the rest of America is badly underestimating the value of women engineers, then you could make a fortune by hiring women.
     
    This is the exact same logic that undermines the gender wage gap hypothesis: if firms could pay women less than men for the same amount of work (both quantity and quality), we should expect firms to hire as many women as they can. If a firm isn't maximizing its profit, it's not 1. not going to survive very long and 2. not have very many shareholders.

    On a relate note: Does anybody know why the specific focus is on closing the gender gap in the tech industry? I don't get it, it doesn't seem that there's a big push in any other industry. My suspicion is that since the big companies are in highly liberal areas, they've been targeted for the diversity issue. I wonder if this will push companies to (eventually and slowly) move out to more conservative areas once it starts eating into their profits.

    Some theories:

    1) SJWs actually believe coding is a good career and think they are doing God’s work (they should try cutting code for pay for a while and see if it’s all it’s cracked up to be).

    2) The old supply’n’demand for coding talent: Facegle, Appazon, etc. want to double the labor pool and lower costs.

    3) Male nerds are a target-rich environment that are too low-T to actually fight back.

    Read More
    • Replies: @prole
    Very true, and women with an IQ over 120 will have better career choices more suitable to their talents and goals.
  30. Do an image search for “Katharine Zaleski” and one finds a White woman with a prideful smirk in almost every photo. The system sure has found a way to exploit a particular human resource: the delight women feel bossing around and presenting challenges to the men of their own tribe.

    White women get hired to use their natural instinct to nag White men into being a good provider and to be “man enough” to stand up to challenges. The only problem with using the instinct to screech “baby needs a new pair of shoes! If you were any kind of man you’d get out there an make this happen!” as a motivator is that “baby” is a Black lesbian programmer. Nice White ladies take their social cues from Slate, the NYT and TV and then turn around and scold their men to conform to what the media created global village wants. “Keeping up with the Jones’ ” — being a global villager in good standing — means being man enough to give away another White guy’s job or even your own.

    Keep in mind though that nice, young White ladies with smirky smiles still want to marry nice, young White men who are higher status, a little older and quite a bit richer than themselves. So white guys need to handicap themselves in the career race but somehow still come out ahead. “Well, if they were a bunch of insecure guys who can’t handle change, and still live in their mom’s basement, they’d be able to do this!”.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
    I read your comment this morning, C. Beast, but didn't have time to write here. This is one of the best comments I've read in a long time - very insightful. I've noticed the two conflicting things that you mention woman want from the white men, but never saw them before as this major contradiction.

    It reminds me of a lady I knew who said "I like sensitive guys" then a few minutes later "I like guys with confidence." They are in contradiction most of the time, and this woman wasn't stupid either, just a woman.

    Your comment should be in some kind of special-colored box, CB.

    ******************************************************************
    There's a way to turn these contradictions around on them sometimes, if you're shrewd (meaning a little dishonest) with them. For instance, when talking about getting a diamond ring for her for the engagement (the biggest scam since Social Security), it goes like this:

    "Listen, I'd love to buy you that big diamond we saw at Jarrod, and yes I know it makes you horny happy (for a while). It's just that, sob sob ..."

    "Yes? What's wrong, honey... wait, you've GOT THE MONEY, don't you?!"

    "Yes, it's not that ... it's just ... well, the terrible conditions in the mines in these countries in Africa ... I'm so concerned. There are murders every day. Rape! Genocide! I can't be part of this ... no way!"

    "Ohhh.... "

    "Yeah, I think I should get you a ruby instead. Sure, they're, cough, cough .. a little bit, cough, cough, cheaper, but they come from different African countries where there's no genocide and all the miners do is kick the ever-lovin' shit out of each other."

    ******************************************************************
  31. Thales says:

    I’m going to hire all these female coders and become the world’s first Trillionaire.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Clark Westwood

    I’m going to hire all these female coders and become the world’s first Trillionaire.
     
    LOL. Or why don't all those brilliant, underused gals team up and beat the lads at their own game? Should be pretty easy, no?
  32. Jimi says:

    In 2005 when Merkel was elected Chancellor of Germany she was considered to be a conservative. Instead of celebrating the election of a woman the MSM media in USA just yawned because they considered her to be right wing (they did the same when May became PM of UK last year).

    After Merkel let in a million “refugees” the MSM is retroactively celebrating her as a feminist pioneer.

    Read More
  33. Tiny Duck says:

    The Vienna Philharmonic Orchestra was all male until a few years ago when they started holding auditions with the candidates physically hidden behind screens. Candidates were identified with no gender information attached, and the selection committee simply had to make its choice purely by the quality of the sound produced.

    Gender bias remains pervasive throughout American culture . The higher women rise in the professions, the more they are subjected to isolation and marginalization by their male peers that leaves them out of key projects and other opportunities that would enhance their resumes.

    J.K. Rowling disguised her gender as the author of the Harry Potter series because she feared a significant segment of the population would not read her works if they realized they were written by a woman. This is also why she made her protagonist a male instead of a female.

    A few corporate CEOs who have daughters at home realize this situation represents significant barriers for them going into career situations where superior educational credentials and other qualifications will still not guarantee success.

    It is still true that once a woman has been accepted, she has to work twice as hard in order to achieve an equal measure of recognition and reward.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Wilkey
    The Vienna Philharmonic Orchestra was all male until a few years ago when they started holding auditions with the candidates physically hidden behind screens. Candidates were identified with no gender information attached, and the selection committee simply had to make its choice purely by the quality of the sound produced.

    So what fraction of the new musicians are female? That may be a valuable piece of data for your readers to know.

    Here's some data for you: a list of International Math Olympiad participants who have won at least three gold medals at the IMO. There are 44 of them. Only 2 of them appear to be female.

    , @Peripatetic commenter

    It is still true that once a woman has been accepted, she has to work twice as hard in order to achieve an equal measure of recognition and reward.
     
    Not in my experience. They receive recognition for doing the simplest things or even for doing nothing.
    , @Thomm


    It is still true that once a woman has been accepted, she has to work twice as hard in order to achieve an equal measure of recognition and reward.
     
    No. The opposite is true. Women get huge recognition for doing absolutely nothing. Tons of make-work sinecures are created for them. Everyone at Facebook knows that Sheryl Sandberg never did any real productive work there (she is on the road on her 'lean in' circus).

    Relative to output generated, women are extremely OVERpaid.
    , @Half Canadian
    Yeah, I've heard the JK Rowling thing, but the problem with this claim is that it wasn't true even then.
    Anne Mcaffrey, Ursala Le Guine, Madeleine L’Engle had all experienced a large amount of success and respect in juvenile literature. The decision by Ms Rowling to initialize her name had little to do with her success.
    , @Jack D

    J.K. Rowling disguised her gender as the author of the Harry Potter series because she feared a significant segment of the population would not read her works if they realized they were written by a woman.
     
    Right - many famous British female authors have been forced to do the same - J.K. Austen, A, K. Christie, V.K. Woolf, B.K. Potter - they all disguised their gender. No wait, they didn't.
  34. Yak-15 says:

    This is the simplest and most powerful argument against purposeful discrimination in the work place. If women and minorities were underpaid relative to their contributions, a savvy capitalist could create a company that employed them all, paid them 90 pct more, and would drive their competitors out of business.

    The reality that liberal, money-hungry capitalists like Warren Buffett do not take advantage of this “arbitrage” points to a different reason for lack of parity in pay, job titles and success in the corporate world.

    Using black athletes as a indicator of this reality helps even the meanest-intellected of opponents understand the reality. If NBA teams discriminated against blacks, they would lose to black dominated teams, etc

    Read More
    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    In baseball, the National League tended to be inferior to the American League during the mid-Century, so the National League teams were more enthusiastic about integration, which allowed them to catch up. But by about 50 years ago you couldn't do that kind of racial arbitrage anymore.
    , @Lurker

    If NBA teams discriminated against blacks, they would lose to black dominated teams, etc
     
    But if all teams participated in the discrimination it would work. And thats how the how the tech industry must be doing it, they've all agreed (secretly) to hold wimmin & minorities back and enforce that on all members.

    Of course someone may point out that we in turn complain of an anti-white agenda. The difference is it's not secret, it's right out there in the open. No secret cabal is needed to enforce it behind the scenes. It works because it's public.
    , @gregor
    Yes, but that presupposes a productivity-oriented way of thinking about business where you want to get something done and you hire some combination of the best/most affordable people for the job. The left seems to have more of what you might call a patronage-oriented view where it's assumed powerful instituions have big piles of (unearned) wealth and desirable jobs just get doled out to whoever has an in with the good ol boys. The assumption seems to be that these institutions will plod along no matter who's on payroll and whatever incidental work needs to be done will magically get done.
  35. @Buzz Mohawk
    You don't make money by hiring women...

    ...You make money by selling to women.

    The money right now is in selling “STEM” edu-products to parents and teachers. Your product page should show girls putting together science experiments and generally being fascinated by cool electro-mechanical devices. Boys are to be shown taking direction from the girls.

    Read More
  36. The Z Blog says: • Website

    Does anybody actually believe the conventional wisdom about how Silicon Valley firms are leaving money on the table by not hiring as many women engineers as men engineers enough to put their money where their mouths are?

    Does anyone believe the story this women tells about a senior Afro-engineer? I’ve been in too many companies to believe that nonsense story. It’s entirely made up.

    These people are true believers so they manufacture the details of the narrative, in the same way they create rape hoaxes and hang nooses on their own office doors. By the way, how’s the investigation in the Lebron James hate crime going? Do the cops have any leads? Will they be releasing pics of the graffiti or video of James painting over it?

    Read More
  37. Bill says:
    @neutral
    The thing with these kind of stories, that I have wondered about for some time now, is if the people writing these stories genuinely believe their narrative. I can understand they want to be polite and not raise thorny questions about racial realities, but do they really believe that there are no black female chess world champions or maths competition winners because a clique of white men are preventing them from doing this? Has anyone here ever personally known a liberal well enough to ask them if that they really believe this.

    How would you tell what they really believe? What the smarter ones say they believe is that there are subtle and not-so-subtle social cues which women pick up on and which communicate to them that, say, coding is not for them. Thus, the necessity of “Gurrlz who Code” and the like.

    Read More
  38. @Yak-15
    This is the simplest and most powerful argument against purposeful discrimination in the work place. If women and minorities were underpaid relative to their contributions, a savvy capitalist could create a company that employed them all, paid them 90 pct more, and would drive their competitors out of business.

    The reality that liberal, money-hungry capitalists like Warren Buffett do not take advantage of this "arbitrage" points to a different reason for lack of parity in pay, job titles and success in the corporate world.

    Using black athletes as a indicator of this reality helps even the meanest-intellected of opponents understand the reality. If NBA teams discriminated against blacks, they would lose to black dominated teams, etc

    In baseball, the National League tended to be inferior to the American League during the mid-Century, so the National League teams were more enthusiastic about integration, which allowed them to catch up. But by about 50 years ago you couldn’t do that kind of racial arbitrage anymore.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Yak-15
    Why is this simple logic and the history of it playing out not more widespread?
    , @Dave Pinsen
    I don't follow the NBA that closely, but would it be possible to put together a team like the '80s Celtics today, one that's ~75% white and still championship caliber?

    If so, wouldn't that make sense from a ratings/attendance perspective?
  39. Wilkey says:

    “Young white men.”

    Funny. In South Korea companies like Samsung have achieved 12 figure market caps using the talents of mostly…young Asian men. Maybe they could try that with young black men in Africa, or with young rainbow women on the Isle of Lesbos.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    Nah, the West is more creative and innovative, they should do this experiment on themselves first. Be on the cutting edge.
  40. boomstick says:

    “Wasn’t a cultural fit” could include something like “Programmer insisted on writing only open source code, while the company insists on writing code that is not open source.”

    Read More
    • Replies: @Kylie
    I'm guessing "wasn't a cultural fit" had more to do with her asking about perks like on-site daycare, hair and nail salon, etc.
  41. @Thales
    I'm going to hire all these female coders and become the world's first Trillionaire.

    I’m going to hire all these female coders and become the world’s first Trillionaire.

    LOL. Or why don’t all those brilliant, underused gals team up and beat the lads at their own game? Should be pretty easy, no?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Forbes
    Bingo! Funny how that idea doesn't occur to Miss Zaleski...
  42. Wilkey says:
    @Tiny Duck
    The Vienna Philharmonic Orchestra was all male until a few years ago when they started holding auditions with the candidates physically hidden behind screens. Candidates were identified with no gender information attached, and the selection committee simply had to make its choice purely by the quality of the sound produced.

    Gender bias remains pervasive throughout American culture . The higher women rise in the professions, the more they are subjected to isolation and marginalization by their male peers that leaves them out of key projects and other opportunities that would enhance their resumes.

    J.K. Rowling disguised her gender as the author of the Harry Potter series because she feared a significant segment of the population would not read her works if they realized they were written by a woman. This is also why she made her protagonist a male instead of a female.

    A few corporate CEOs who have daughters at home realize this situation represents significant barriers for them going into career situations where superior educational credentials and other qualifications will still not guarantee success.

    It is still true that once a woman has been accepted, she has to work twice as hard in order to achieve an equal measure of recognition and reward.

    The Vienna Philharmonic Orchestra was all male until a few years ago when they started holding auditions with the candidates physically hidden behind screens. Candidates were identified with no gender information attached, and the selection committee simply had to make its choice purely by the quality of the sound produced.

    So what fraction of the new musicians are female? That may be a valuable piece of data for your readers to know.

    Here’s some data for you: a list of International Math Olympiad participants who have won at least three gold medals at the IMO. There are 44 of them. Only 2 of them appear to be female.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Peripatetic commenter

    There are 44 of them. Only 2 of them appear to be female.
     
    One wonders how many of them are CAH females, as well :-)
    , @Triumph104
    The auditions for the Vienna Philharmonic (Vienna State Opera Orchestra) are not as blind as they would seem. The women hired are good looking and white. (LINK) Although the first woman was hired in 1997, it was not until 2003 that the Vienna Philharmonic hired an Asian (male). (LINK) This despite Asians being some of the best classical musicians in the world, many of whom have studied and are living in Austria.

    But to answer your question, in 2015, "Women now hold 14 of the 149 positions in the Vienna State Opera Orchestra for a ratio of 9.3%.  Ten of these women have been tenured into the Philharmonic, which currently has 140 positions, for a ratio of 7.1%.".

    Tiny Duck gave examples of subjective selection biases. The IMO is an objective contest and its results don't disprove what Tiny Duck said.

    Further, only 11 of the 44 triple gold IMO medalists are Asian which is abnormally low, but can probably be explained by how countries select members for their teams. Teams may be formed based on seniority, denying younger players the necessary three appearances to win three golds. Also the national level of competition may be so high that potential international gold medalists are left at home because that country has too many to choose from, sort of like the United States in Olympic basketball and women's gymnastics.

  43. Andy says:

    More and more, Silicon Valley companies have to compete with Asian tech companies that do not have to deal with this diversity nonsense and can hire the best. At what point will this diversity start affecting the bottom line of US tech companies?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    Not only Asian ones; I know a lot of companies that just moved branches to Eastern Europe. Screw this noise and the Russian programmer(who is pretty common in EE) is famous for his effectiveness.

    "Why are Russians good coders?"

    "Good schools, long winters with below zero temperatures."

    Of course, the winning formula is to virtue signal with your California branch and get results from your unpozzed branch.

  44. prole says:
    @anon
    Some theories:

    1) SJWs actually believe coding is a good career and think they are doing God's work (they should try cutting code for pay for a while and see if it's all it's cracked up to be).

    2) The old supply'n'demand for coding talent: Facegle, Appazon, etc. want to double the labor pool and lower costs.

    3) Male nerds are a target-rich environment that are too low-T to actually fight back.

    Very true, and women with an IQ over 120 will have better career choices more suitable to their talents and goals.

    Read More
  45. I am a statistician for a top 10 company. Have worked for several Fortune 50 companies. Been doing data analysis for evah. I have never met an excellent women analyst. Some Chinese gals can follow the script and produce results, but I have never seen andyauthentic, ground-breaking analysis from a woman. Recently a mulatto gal produced a power point of Excel charts. You’d have thought she figured out how to create a fusion reactor from the reaction and awards she received. Sickening.

    Read More
  46. TheOldOne says:

    YetAnotherAnon: There are still a few IBM mainframe assembly programmers; I’m goofing off from my job as one of them as I write this.

    TinyDuck: Die.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Jim Don Bob

    There are still a few IBM mainframe assembly programmers.
     
    Cool. What kind of app requires assembly language speed? Or is this OS level?
  47. snorlax says:

    Ironically, the massively-successful racial arbitrage practiced by the Belichick/Brady Patriots and the Auerbach/Bird Celtics indicates it’s actually white athletes who are discriminated against in those sports.

    Read More
    • Agree: prole
    • Replies: @Clyde

    Ironically, the massively-successful racial arbitrage practiced by the Belichick/Brady Patriots and the Auerbach/Bird Celtics indicates it’s actually white athletes who are discriminated against in those sports.
     
    There are not that many racial and ethnic (as in Hispanic) minorities in New England and in the Patriots fan base that have to be catered to, or else loud noises will be made. Look to the whitetopian states north of Boston and even Massachusetts itself. They buy the games on cable or might make a day of it by going to the stadium which is 40 miles south of Boston. They overtly or subliminally (being libs) appreciate seeing a Patriots team where the whites are calling the shots.
    Plus owner Bob Kraft is a Trump friend which sends a message. There is a recent photo of him dining with DJT and Melania at Mar Al Lago.
  48. grapesoda says:

    After meeting with the hiring panel, she withdrew her application…

    First of all, made up story. Second of all, poor little baby….

    I wish I was rich enough that I could “withdraw my application” from a job that pays six figures and I’d be almost sure to get, that is if I were a female slightly marginally interested in coding, as long as there were no other diversity prospects with equal or greater diversity points.

    I guess when you got that welfare to fall back on, it’s not a big deal to withdraw job applications to top tech companies willy-nilly like that.

    Read More
  49. grapesoda says:
    @james wilson
    Hank Stram picked a few million up off the grid iron. After winning two Super Bowls by arbitraging the under representation of black pro football talent the rest of the league got the memo and Hank Stram resumed being the average pro football coach he was.

    After winning two Super Bowls by arbitraging the under representation of black pro football talent

    Were you trying to say “arbitrating”?

    http://www.dictionary.com/browse/arbitrate

    I have seen lots of people make this error. The reason why people make this mistake is because the noun form, “arbitrage,” is more common than the verb form. So they clumsily try to make arbitrage into a verb, when it already has a verb form, “arbitrate,” which is where the more common term “arbitrage” comes from.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Alec Leamas (hard at work)
    I think he means arbitrage in the financial/economic sense of buying a commodity at a low rate and selling it at a higher rate, the profitable difference being "arbitrage."

    We would say that, for example, large homebuilders profit by arbitraging the difference between the compensation paid to illegal laborers and the compensation expected/demanded by native laborers on the legal market.

    In this case, black baseball talent was underrated for non-baseball reasons, which allowed a few teams to more easily collect and exploit it than white talent to their benefit.

    , @Peter Lund
    https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/arbitrage#Verb
  50. @YetAnotherAnon
    Back in the 60s/70s (when programming was still an excellent career option for women) a smart refugee to the UK picked up a lot of ten pound notes by hiring married women programmers who needed flexible hours. Ironically she had to stop when sex discrimination laws were passed. She changed her given name of Vera to Steve so that potential client companies would take her mailshots more seriously.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Shirley


    "I recruited professionally qualified women who'd left the industry on marriage, or when their first child was expected and structured them into a home-working organization. We pioneered the concept of women going back into the workforce after a career break. We pioneered all sorts of new, flexible work methods: job shares, profit-sharing, and eventually, co-ownership when I took a quarter of the company into the hands of the staff at no cost to anyone but me.

    I started to challenge the conventions of the time, even to the extent of changing my name from "Stephanie" to "Steve" in my business development letters, so as to get through the door before anyone realized that he was a she.

    My company, called Freelance Programmers, and that's precisely what it was, couldn't have started smaller: on the dining room table, and financed by the equivalent of 100 dollars in today's terms, and financed by my labor and by borrowing against the house. My interests were scientific, the market was commercial -- things such as payroll, which I found rather boring. So I had to compromise with operational research work, which had the intellectual challenge that interested me and the commercial value that was valued by the clients: things like scheduling freight trains, time-tabling buses, stock control, lots and lots of stock control. And eventually, the work came in. We disguised the domestic and part-time nature of the staff by offering fixed prices, one of the very first to do so. And who would have guessed that the programming of the black box flight recorder of Supersonic Concord would have been done by a bunch of women working in their own homes.

    An early project was to develop software standards on management control protocols. And software was and still is a maddeningly hard-to-control activity, so that was enormously valuable. We used the standards ourselves, we were even paid to update them over the years, and eventually, they were adopted by NATO. Our programmers -- remember, only women, including gay and transgender -- worked with pencil and paper to develop flowcharts defining each task to be done. And they then wrote code, usually machine code, sometimes binary code, which was then sent by mail to a data center to be punched onto paper tape or card and then re-punched, in order to verify it. All this, before it ever got near a computer. That was programming in the early 1960s."
     

    https://www.ted.com/talks/dame_stephanie_shirley_why_do_ambitious_women_have_flat_heads/transcript#t-274028

    I think the "including gay and transgender" may be a bit of retconning (remember she was hiring married women with kids), though I'm sure the profile of women assembly language programmers included some girls who looked and dressed like boys. Anyone remember the "IBM flowchart template", which you used to produce a high-level diagram of what the code would do?

    Re the main article, I can imagined another scenario playing out.

    "Woman claims all-male interview panel bombarded her with intimidating and abstruse technical questions which they would not have asked a male candidate".

    Steve? Surely, you’re joking.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Jim Don Bob
    And don't call me Shirley!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KM2K7sV-K74
  51. @Andy
    More and more, Silicon Valley companies have to compete with Asian tech companies that do not have to deal with this diversity nonsense and can hire the best. At what point will this diversity start affecting the bottom line of US tech companies?

    Not only Asian ones; I know a lot of companies that just moved branches to Eastern Europe. Screw this noise and the Russian programmer(who is pretty common in EE) is famous for his effectiveness.

    “Why are Russians good coders?”

    “Good schools, long winters with below zero temperatures.”

    Of course, the winning formula is to virtue signal with your California branch and get results from your unpozzed branch.

    Read More
  52. @Wilkey
    "Young white men."

    Funny. In South Korea companies like Samsung have achieved 12 figure market caps using the talents of mostly...young Asian men. Maybe they could try that with young black men in Africa, or with young rainbow women on the Isle of Lesbos.

    Nah, the West is more creative and innovative, they should do this experiment on themselves first. Be on the cutting edge.

    Read More
  53. @grapesoda

    After winning two Super Bowls by arbitraging the under representation of black pro football talent
     
    Were you trying to say "arbitrating"?

    http://www.dictionary.com/browse/arbitrate

    I have seen lots of people make this error. The reason why people make this mistake is because the noun form, "arbitrage," is more common than the verb form. So they clumsily try to make arbitrage into a verb, when it already has a verb form, "arbitrate," which is where the more common term "arbitrage" comes from.

    I think he means arbitrage in the financial/economic sense of buying a commodity at a low rate and selling it at a higher rate, the profitable difference being “arbitrage.”

    We would say that, for example, large homebuilders profit by arbitraging the difference between the compensation paid to illegal laborers and the compensation expected/demanded by native laborers on the legal market.

    In this case, black baseball talent was underrated for non-baseball reasons, which allowed a few teams to more easily collect and exploit it than white talent to their benefit.

    Read More
  54. res says:
    @Steve Richter
    internet history podcast has some terrific content. Not perfect since the host is a latent liberal. Here is a recent episode with Don Melton, the manager of the team which created the apple safari web browser.
    http://www.internethistorypodcast.com/2017/07/don-melton-on-apple-safari-webkit-and-netscape/

    Melton praises time and again the brilliance of the software engineers who worked for him. Calls Brendan Eich a friend. Judging by his twitter feed and website, he is a liberal. But has nothing to say on women in tech.

    There is just no way women can do high level software work. Try reading a regular expression.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regular_expression
    The match results of the pattern
    (?<=\.) {2,}(?=[A-Z]).
    At least two spaces are matched, but only if they occur directly after a period (.) and before an upper case letter.

    There is just no way women can do high level software work. Try reading a regular expression.

    As a programmer I disagree. It is just that the women who can and want to do such work are rarer than the men. As I understand it, the female representation in Google engineering is about 20%. That is a 4x underrepresentation. For anyone who knows about statistical distributions, I think tail effects can explain that pretty easily given differences like
    - d = 1.18 for people-things preference: http://slatestarcodex.com/2017/08/07/contra-grant-on-exaggerated-differences/
    - d = 0.73 for the mental rotation component of spatial visualization: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7724690
    For anyone who wants to know more about the meaning of Cohen’s d do a web search or see my comment: http://www.unz.com/jthompson/google-sex/#comment-1963141

    I think both of those characteristics are important to programming and are selected for (if anyone wants to argue against that, feel free to offer a real counterargument). If you are selecting at the 2 SD level (~ top 2%) then a d of 1 results in about a 16x (!) overrepresentation: http://emilkirkegaard.dk/understanding_statistics/?app=tail_effects
    (a d of 0.73 results in about a 7x overrepresentation over 2SD)

    Notice that the overrepresentation becomes greater the further out on the tail you go. This is why you might get an occasional female finalist in the Google Code Jam (say), but we have not seen any female winners yet.

    Read More
    • Replies: @YetAnotherAnon
    Funny, I've been coding for 25 years and I'm useless at that mental rotation (e.g. the unfolded dice in the IQ tests), but then I'm mainly programming run of the mill stuff for financial companies, not quant stuff or high-frequency trading. How much spatial mental rotation ability do you need to code a function in Excel or a subroutine?

    Re assembly language, we had one guy on our training course who was a couple of standard deviations ahead of the rest of us - his code worked as well as ours, but was half the size. We could understand it when he showed us how it worked, what we couldn't work out was how he worked that method out in the beginning. Haven't coded it in decades now.

  55. DFH says:
    @Hero Kid Comics
    Ve haf ways of making you accept ze mass immigration!

    https://www.thesun.co.uk/tech/4246768/western-people-become-kinder-to-migrants-when-fed-the-human-love-hormone-oxytocin-and-exposed-to-peer-pressure-german-scientists-say/amp/

    The story is bizarre since I’ve read research before suggesting the exact opposite

    http://www.pnas.org/content/108/4/1262.full

    Just another case of the irreplicability of social ‘science’?

    Read More
  56. anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @Steve Sailer
    The Brooklyn Dodgers went to six World Series in ten years, 1947-1956, by being out ahead of everybody else in hiring black baseball players, including six MVPs: Jackie Robinson 1949, Roy Campanella, 1951 1953 1955, and Don Newcombe 1956.

    Yet they only won one WS during that span. Meanwhile the pale Yankees were the dominant team of that era.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Njguy73

    Meanwhile the pale Yankees were the dominant team of that era.
     
    Their GM, George Weiss, had the attitude of "We'll integrate when we need to, and with the player who exemplifies the Yankee Way." In '54, after coming up short, they had a Black Cuban minor leaguer named Vic Power, but he was brash and dated white women. So he got traded to KC. Elston Howard integrated the team instead. He was definitely a good catcher and was a model citizen to boot. Casey Stengel said of him, "Well, when they finally get me a [slur], I get the only one who can't run."

    Weiss would later be GM of the Mets, and passed on drafting another Black who was dating a white girl. The player in question? Reggie Jackson.
  57. @Peter Lund
    It *was* possible to get rich by hiring women, once.

    "She wanted to create job opportunities for women with dependents, and predominantly employed women, with only 3 male programmers in the first 300 staff, until the Sex Discrimination Act 1975 made that practice illegal. She adopted the name, Steve, to help her in the male-dominated business world"

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Shirley

    I think there is more, or perhaps less, to that story than meets the eye.

    I have worked with female programmers. The best tend to be East Asians. Good ones do exist, but they are few and far between and if she was working with women with dependents they would have a lot of other concerns. Then there are the other issues of an office full of women.

    I highly doubt it is possible to get rich employing female programmers unless you are milking some sort of affirmative action fund.

    Read More
    • Replies: @YetAnotherAnon
    Back in the 60s there was no such thing as flextime and programming jobs were nearly all 9-5 jobs. Most of the commercial (i.e. non-military) wasn't cutting-edge stuff, though Shirley herself seems to be a cutting-edge sort, starting out at Dollis Hill.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post_Office_Research_Station

    One of the companies I worked for (25 years later) in those days had separate career paths for men and women - I've seen the literature they used to send to schools and colleges in the early 1970s. It was a different world (and in many ways a better one, but there were some costs).

    Shirley saw that married women with computer skills had basically dropped out of work, because the only jobs were full time, and her company exploited that underutilised "human resource".

    I worked alongside some of her people in the 1980s, when FI Group (as it had become) was more like a provider of contractors on demand.

  58. Abe says: • Website
    @unit472
    Perhaps a baseball stat geek would know if left handed batters have a ( small ) batting average advantage over right handed batters owing to their being a step closer to first base and other idiosyncracies of stadium layouts, predominance of right handed pitchers etc.

    Perhaps a baseball stat geek would know if left handed batters have a ( small ) batting average advantage over right handed batters owing to their being a step closer to first base

    This was basically Ichiro Suzuki’s MLB career (OK I exaggerate… a bit). If you ever watched him bat you’d see how he used his proximity to first to basically take a couple steps up the line WHILE still waiting for the pitch by using a sort of leaning/falling stance toward first. This of course severely reduced his power, but since he was trying to do a sort of “Baltimore Chop” hit toward third it didn’t really matter, and the more restrained swing this required ensured he’d put the ball in play more often, even on difficult pitches.

    Read More
  59. @Wilkey
    The Vienna Philharmonic Orchestra was all male until a few years ago when they started holding auditions with the candidates physically hidden behind screens. Candidates were identified with no gender information attached, and the selection committee simply had to make its choice purely by the quality of the sound produced.

    So what fraction of the new musicians are female? That may be a valuable piece of data for your readers to know.

    Here's some data for you: a list of International Math Olympiad participants who have won at least three gold medals at the IMO. There are 44 of them. Only 2 of them appear to be female.

    There are 44 of them. Only 2 of them appear to be female.

    One wonders how many of them are CAH females, as well :-)

    Read More
  60. rec1man says:

    I have worked in a hi-tech US company and saw plenty of female engineers –

    All of them were
    1) Chinese
    2) Indian
    3) Russian migrants

    For cultural reasons, if White Russian women can do engineers, somehow native whites
    are not able to do engineering

    and no black or hispanic engineers, male or female

    Read More
  61. AndrewR says:

    Thank you for finally saying a non-flattering thing about Donald Trump. I’m proud of you Steve :’)

    Read More
  62. @TheOldOne
    YetAnotherAnon: There are still a few IBM mainframe assembly programmers; I'm goofing off from my job as one of them as I write this.

    TinyDuck: Die.

    There are still a few IBM mainframe assembly programmers.

    Cool. What kind of app requires assembly language speed? Or is this OS level?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anon
    Approx 90% fortune 100 still use ibm mainframe and something like 70% Fortune 500. And IBM continues to enhance operating system including its use as cloud server. To interface in any sophisticated way with the ibm OS (z/os) you need assembler (like writing 3rd party vendor software for example). IBM and assembler has been berry berry good to me. And there is demand for smart youngins to continue the work as everyone, including ibm, thought the mainframe would be dead by now so no one bothered to hire and train the next gen.
  63. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katharine_Zaleski

    Zaleski worked for CNN after graduating from Dartmouth college in 2003. After college she was hired as one of the first editors of The Huffington Post in 2005, the same month the site launched.[19] She was eventually promoted to Senior News Editor.[20]

    Zaleski appeared alongside Valerie Jarrett at the 2015 Women In The World Summit.[16] She has also spoken at Internet Week New York[17] and Lesbians Who Tech Summit[18]

    A wealthy connected lefty Jewish woman who just wants to make cisgender white male techies feel and look bad.

    Read More
    • Replies: @kaganovitch
    What makes you think she's Jewish?
    , @Hibernian
    A name like Zaleski, spelled with the "ski," is more likely Polish Catholic than Jewish.
    , @Jack D
    I see Joos under every table.

    http://www.womenshealthmag.com/sites/womenshealthmag.com/files/articles/2016/05/katharine-zaleski-override.jpg

    If this woman is Jewish I'll eat my foreskin.
    , @anonymous-antimarxist
    Both Zaleski and her husband Rufus Lusk both have Ashkenazi Jewish Surnames

    https://www.hebrewsurnames.com/ZALESKI

    http://www.genealogy.com/forum/surnames/topics/lusk/1744/

    I would say odds are better than 50%
  64. Mr. Anon says:

    We recently set up an interview at a major company for a senior African-American woman software engineer.

    So she was already “senior”? Where? I wonder if she had worked for the government, where people routinely claim to be engineers, or scientists, or programmers, or other things they are not. Maybe that’s what the hiring board meant by not being a good cultural fit.

    Read More
  65. @kihowi
    Young men are hated by the establishment much, the only reason that they've not all been replaced by women must be that women are extraordinarily bad at what men can do.

    Not quite. Explaining the psychology of women in tech might illuminate.

    Carole Dweck is a worldwide expert on what she called Mindset, in her book of the same name. In other words, she is the Larry Page or Sergey Brin of the field. On pages 77-78 of that book, she relates the following:

    Many females have a problem not only with stereotypes, but with other people’s opinion of them in general. They trust them too much.
    One day, I went into the drugstore in Hawaii … and, after fetching my items, I went to wait in line. There were two women together in front of me waiting to pay. …(A)t some point I decided to get my money ready for when my turn came. So I walked up, put the items way on the side of the counter, and started to gather up the bills that were strewn through my purse. The two women went berserk. I explained that in no way was I trying to cut in front of them. … I thought the matter was resolved, but when I left the store, they were waiting for me. They got in my face and yelled, “you’re a bad-mannered person!”
    …(T)hey had a strange and disturbing effect on me, and I had a hard time shaking off their verdict.
    This vulnerability affects many of the most able, high achieving females. Why should this be? When they’re little, these girls are often so perfect and they delight in everyone’s telling them so. They’re so well behaved, they’re so cute, they are so helpful, and they’re so precocious. Girls learn to trust people’s estimates of them. “Gee, everyone is so nice to me; if they criticize me, it must be true.” Even females at the top universities in the country say that other people’s opinions are a good way to know their abilities.
    … The fixed mindset, plus stereotyping, plus women’s trust in people’s assessment: I think we can begin to understand why there’s a gender gap in math and science.

    She goes on to discuss how boys are constantly insulting each other, and how they have to learn to fail and pick themselves up. So it’s not that women, in Dweck’s eyes, are as you say “bad” at tech: they’re just fragile to failure, instead of being robust to it.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    Is she saying that girls are more emotionally fragile? Isn't that a gender assessment? But gender is not real!
    , @kihowi
    I said "what men can do" on purpose. It covers technical skills but also hard to talk about but much more important things like "will to dominate", "monomaniacal attention to detail", "enjoying competition", etc, all genetic.

    Saying that women could very well be good at coding if only reality was different is meaningless. Having the kind of skill that only comes out if your environment is exactly tailored to neutralize your handicaps is called "unskilled".

  66. @YetAnotherAnon
    Back in the 60s/70s (when programming was still an excellent career option for women) a smart refugee to the UK picked up a lot of ten pound notes by hiring married women programmers who needed flexible hours. Ironically she had to stop when sex discrimination laws were passed. She changed her given name of Vera to Steve so that potential client companies would take her mailshots more seriously.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Shirley


    "I recruited professionally qualified women who'd left the industry on marriage, or when their first child was expected and structured them into a home-working organization. We pioneered the concept of women going back into the workforce after a career break. We pioneered all sorts of new, flexible work methods: job shares, profit-sharing, and eventually, co-ownership when I took a quarter of the company into the hands of the staff at no cost to anyone but me.

    I started to challenge the conventions of the time, even to the extent of changing my name from "Stephanie" to "Steve" in my business development letters, so as to get through the door before anyone realized that he was a she.

    My company, called Freelance Programmers, and that's precisely what it was, couldn't have started smaller: on the dining room table, and financed by the equivalent of 100 dollars in today's terms, and financed by my labor and by borrowing against the house. My interests were scientific, the market was commercial -- things such as payroll, which I found rather boring. So I had to compromise with operational research work, which had the intellectual challenge that interested me and the commercial value that was valued by the clients: things like scheduling freight trains, time-tabling buses, stock control, lots and lots of stock control. And eventually, the work came in. We disguised the domestic and part-time nature of the staff by offering fixed prices, one of the very first to do so. And who would have guessed that the programming of the black box flight recorder of Supersonic Concord would have been done by a bunch of women working in their own homes.

    An early project was to develop software standards on management control protocols. And software was and still is a maddeningly hard-to-control activity, so that was enormously valuable. We used the standards ourselves, we were even paid to update them over the years, and eventually, they were adopted by NATO. Our programmers -- remember, only women, including gay and transgender -- worked with pencil and paper to develop flowcharts defining each task to be done. And they then wrote code, usually machine code, sometimes binary code, which was then sent by mail to a data center to be punched onto paper tape or card and then re-punched, in order to verify it. All this, before it ever got near a computer. That was programming in the early 1960s."
     

    https://www.ted.com/talks/dame_stephanie_shirley_why_do_ambitious_women_have_flat_heads/transcript#t-274028

    I think the "including gay and transgender" may be a bit of retconning (remember she was hiring married women with kids), though I'm sure the profile of women assembly language programmers included some girls who looked and dressed like boys. Anyone remember the "IBM flowchart template", which you used to produce a high-level diagram of what the code would do?

    Re the main article, I can imagined another scenario playing out.

    "Woman claims all-male interview panel bombarded her with intimidating and abstruse technical questions which they would not have asked a male candidate".

    And they then wrote code, usually machine code, sometimes binary code,

    So, maybe I am too young, because I wasn’t programming in the ’60s, but does that not smell fishy?

    Read More
    • Replies: @YetAnotherAnon
    I've never written any, but AFAIK binary code is just the instructions at the very lowest level i.e. binary. Given that we were still writing assembler in the 1980s, and that Shirley started at Dollis Hill in 1959, I wouldn't be surprised if it happened occasionally, but most code would be assembly language or higher.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Machine_code

    She seemed to gild the lily a tad when she talked about gay and transgender coders, given that earlier she'd said she employed women with kids, but maybe, like a good businesswoman, she's giving the TED talk customer what it wants.

    , @Jim Don Bob
    Yes, it does sound fishy. Probably assembler code at most, which is still pretty hard. But that sentence, just like the one about hiring the "trans", is meant to punch up an old story to meet today's standards.
    , @Chrisnonymous

    does that not smell fishy?
     
    Microaggression!!
  67. Lot says:
    @NickG

    Simple logic suggests that if the rest of America is badly underestimating the value of women engineers,

     

    No, simple observation and logic suggests that being a computer programmer is a fairly cognitively loaded or 'g' loaded field. Likely with effective practitioners being north of one standard deviation above the white mean in cognitive ability. This corresponds to an IQ of 115 as a minimum. I'd be willing to wager the cohort of coders that work at the likes of Google, Microsoft, Facebook etcetera, will all be well north of that.

    Given the American black mean IQ of 85, and taking 115 as the minimum programming cut off. Normal distribution gives us a pool of black females potentially up to snuff of about 2%. Black females represent about 6.5% of the population, 2% of 6.5 gives a pool of 0.13% of the general population. This is before interest - and cutting code doesn't strike oneself as within the domain of natural interest for your typical sistah, nor does it take account of filtering for age etcetera. Nor is it taking into account that every corporate out there is fighting tooth and nail for such black cognitive talent as there is.

    So unless you go for the race-preference window dressing, seat warmer approach, whereby people are appointed, given the title and paid but can't actually do the job, requiring a shadow headcount of competent contractors - which is the situation in South Africa, then black female coders in elite institutions are going to be about as rare as ethnically Korean NBA stars or South Asian sprint champions.

    If true, the woman was likely Igbo, who could easily be the majority of blacks at corporate STEM jobs.

    Read More
  68. @Tiny Duck
    The Vienna Philharmonic Orchestra was all male until a few years ago when they started holding auditions with the candidates physically hidden behind screens. Candidates were identified with no gender information attached, and the selection committee simply had to make its choice purely by the quality of the sound produced.

    Gender bias remains pervasive throughout American culture . The higher women rise in the professions, the more they are subjected to isolation and marginalization by their male peers that leaves them out of key projects and other opportunities that would enhance their resumes.

    J.K. Rowling disguised her gender as the author of the Harry Potter series because she feared a significant segment of the population would not read her works if they realized they were written by a woman. This is also why she made her protagonist a male instead of a female.

    A few corporate CEOs who have daughters at home realize this situation represents significant barriers for them going into career situations where superior educational credentials and other qualifications will still not guarantee success.

    It is still true that once a woman has been accepted, she has to work twice as hard in order to achieve an equal measure of recognition and reward.

    It is still true that once a woman has been accepted, she has to work twice as hard in order to achieve an equal measure of recognition and reward.

    Not in my experience. They receive recognition for doing the simplest things or even for doing nothing.

    Read More
  69. @res

    There is just no way women can do high level software work. Try reading a regular expression.
     
    As a programmer I disagree. It is just that the women who can and want to do such work are rarer than the men. As I understand it, the female representation in Google engineering is about 20%. That is a 4x underrepresentation. For anyone who knows about statistical distributions, I think tail effects can explain that pretty easily given differences like
    - d = 1.18 for people-things preference: http://slatestarcodex.com/2017/08/07/contra-grant-on-exaggerated-differences/
    - d = 0.73 for the mental rotation component of spatial visualization: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7724690
    For anyone who wants to know more about the meaning of Cohen's d do a web search or see my comment: http://www.unz.com/jthompson/google-sex/#comment-1963141

    I think both of those characteristics are important to programming and are selected for (if anyone wants to argue against that, feel free to offer a real counterargument). If you are selecting at the 2 SD level (~ top 2%) then a d of 1 results in about a 16x (!) overrepresentation: http://emilkirkegaard.dk/understanding_statistics/?app=tail_effects
    (a d of 0.73 results in about a 7x overrepresentation over 2SD)

    Notice that the overrepresentation becomes greater the further out on the tail you go. This is why you might get an occasional female finalist in the Google Code Jam (say), but we have not seen any female winners yet.

    Funny, I’ve been coding for 25 years and I’m useless at that mental rotation (e.g. the unfolded dice in the IQ tests), but then I’m mainly programming run of the mill stuff for financial companies, not quant stuff or high-frequency trading. How much spatial mental rotation ability do you need to code a function in Excel or a subroutine?

    Re assembly language, we had one guy on our training course who was a couple of standard deviations ahead of the rest of us – his code worked as well as ours, but was half the size. We could understand it when he showed us how it worked, what we couldn’t work out was how he worked that method out in the beginning. Haven’t coded it in decades now.

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    • Replies: @res

    Funny, I’ve been coding for 25 years and I’m useless at that mental rotation (e.g. the unfolded dice in the IQ tests), but then I’m mainly programming run of the mill stuff for financial companies, not quant stuff or high-frequency trading. How much spatial mental rotation ability do you need to code a function in Excel or a subroutine?
     
    Interesting. Did you notice this affecting differences between how you and your coworkers (or other students during education) look at and do things?

    I'm pretty good at mental rotation and wonder if that somehow accounts for some of my differences in thinking and problem solving. The most obvious connection for me would be ability to think about and manipulate complex hierarchies.

    Looking into mental rotation for another comment: http://www.unz.com/isteve/was-sergey-brins-ex-sister-in-law-the-driving-force-in-getting-james-damore-canned/#comment-1964589
    I ran across: http://humantechnology.jyu.fi/articles/volume4/2008/jones-burnett.pdf

    Abstract: Results in introductory computer programming modules are often disappointing, and various individual differences have been found to be relevant. This paper reviews work in this area, with particular reference to the effect of a student’s spatial ability. Data is presented on a cohort of 49 students enrolled on an MSc in Information Technology course at a university in the UK. A measure was taken of their mental rotation ability, and a questionnaire administered that focused on their previous academic experience, and expectations relating to the introductory computer programming module they were studying. The results showed a positive correlation between mental rotation ability and success in the module (r = 0.48). Other factors, such as confidence level, expected success, and programming experience, were also found to be important. These results are discussed in relation to the accessibility of programming to learners with low spatial ability.
     
    That is a small sample (with a fairly large effect, about a quarter of variance explained!), but the paper also mentions similar research results by others. The correlation was even higher (0.68) for the Object Oriented Systems module.

    I'd be interested in whether you see mental rotation as explaining anything in your programming experience. Do you have any other skills that are noticeably better than other programmers? That's what I would expect, and thinking about skill correlations and differences is interesting to me.
  70. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer

    Simple logic suggests that if the rest of America is badly underestimating the value of women engineers, then you could make a fortune by hiring women.

    No, because then the fortune would be based on paying women less than men get paid at other firms. So that would still be sexist.

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  71. Abe says: • Website
    @Alec Leamas

    She described how one of the men had made it clear to her that she wasn’t a cultural fit and that therefore they didn’t need to proceed with technical questions.
     
    stuffthatdidnthappen.txt

    "Sorry, colored lady, we cannot hire you here and pay you handsomely for your work but would prefer that you bring a lawsuit against us so that we can pay you without the bother of your having to do actual work for us."

    stuffthatdidnthappen.txt

    Exactly. The lady writing the article is a another Diversity Inc. parasite, but her income stream is pretty easy to understand- she makes money from finding “suitable” candidates for companies, and gets paid for every successful hire, plus almost certainly for every referral as well. So what she is saying is this company of deplorable Haven Monahan-esque bro-grammers paid between 3 and 4 figures just for the kicks of humiliating her brilliant, successful, funny, brave, cute, RISE!, Hidden Figure, they-go-low-but-she-go-high African-American senior programmer.

    Tawara Brawley made up her whole abduction story to avoid getting beaten for staying out all night. So what was the real deal here? No-existent or not big enough stock options package for her tastes? Frightened by the complex nature of the work, even though by not asking any technical questions the company was signally they were more than willing to carry her? Her potential co-workers (as represented by the hiring panel) too nerdy and unattractive?

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  72. Lurker says:
    @Yak-15
    This is the simplest and most powerful argument against purposeful discrimination in the work place. If women and minorities were underpaid relative to their contributions, a savvy capitalist could create a company that employed them all, paid them 90 pct more, and would drive their competitors out of business.

    The reality that liberal, money-hungry capitalists like Warren Buffett do not take advantage of this "arbitrage" points to a different reason for lack of parity in pay, job titles and success in the corporate world.

    Using black athletes as a indicator of this reality helps even the meanest-intellected of opponents understand the reality. If NBA teams discriminated against blacks, they would lose to black dominated teams, etc

    If NBA teams discriminated against blacks, they would lose to black dominated teams, etc

    But if all teams participated in the discrimination it would work. And thats how the how the tech industry must be doing it, they’ve all agreed (secretly) to hold wimmin & minorities back and enforce that on all members.

    Of course someone may point out that we in turn complain of an anti-white agenda. The difference is it’s not secret, it’s right out there in the open. No secret cabal is needed to enforce it behind the scenes. It works because it’s public.

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    • Replies: @Yak-15
    Lurker, they are just righting historic wrongs. This will, of course, continue until there parity, i.e. , everyone is a Venezuelan.
  73. @TomSchmidt
    Not quite. Explaining the psychology of women in tech might illuminate.

    Carole Dweck is a worldwide expert on what she called Mindset, in her book of the same name. In other words, she is the Larry Page or Sergey Brin of the field. On pages 77-78 of that book, she relates the following:

    Many females have a problem not only with stereotypes, but with other people's opinion of them in general. They trust them too much.
    One day, I went into the drugstore in Hawaii … and, after fetching my items, I went to wait in line. There were two women together in front of me waiting to pay. …(A)t some point I decided to get my money ready for when my turn came. So I walked up, put the items way on the side of the counter, and started to gather up the bills that were strewn through my purse. The two women went berserk. I explained that in no way was I trying to cut in front of them. … I thought the matter was resolved, but when I left the store, they were waiting for me. They got in my face and yelled, "you're a bad-mannered person!"
    …(T)hey had a strange and disturbing effect on me, and I had a hard time shaking off their verdict.
    This vulnerability affects many of the most able, high achieving females. Why should this be? When they’re little, these girls are often so perfect and they delight in everyone's telling them so. They're so well behaved, they're so cute, they are so helpful, and they're so precocious. Girls learn to trust people's estimates of them. "Gee, everyone is so nice to me; if they criticize me, it must be true." Even females at the top universities in the country say that other people’s opinions are a good way to know their abilities.
    … The fixed mindset, plus stereotyping, plus women's trust in people's assessment: I think we can begin to understand why there's a gender gap in math and science.
     
    She goes on to discuss how boys are constantly insulting each other, and how they have to learn to fail and pick themselves up. So it's not that women, in Dweck's eyes, are as you say "bad" at tech: they're just fragile to failure, instead of being robust to it.

    Is she saying that girls are more emotionally fragile? Isn’t that a gender assessment? But gender is not real!

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    • Replies: @TomSchmidt
    She is saying that. She's also the top expert in the world in this area.

    Her idea is that you can have a fixed or flexible mindset. Fixed mindset children, a LOT of whom are high-IQ, see intelligence as something you ARE, not something you DO or USE. For example, if you have a smart child, do not praise him for his intelligence; he had little to do with that. It's a bit like praising an Asian child because he is Asian. Praise and reward effort and resilience, and you'll get more of those. Fixed mindset children do very well until they hit a problem they cannot solve; then they quit.

    I know a lot of high-IQ people who fit this description. It also makes sense in the case of girls; we do in fact praise them for being pretty when young (because, let's face it, they are) but not as much for things they do or struggles they overcome.

    I think a lot of the IQ focus around here is an attempt to show that one is blessed by God, given the high amount of genetic influence (not 0, and not 100%) on IQ. The link to Calvinism is clear: the high-IQ are the elect, and the low-IQ are the damned of God. In this sense, the SJWs who denigrate IQ are correct: effort, which is largely reinforced by culture, is more important.
  74. kihowi says:
    @TomSchmidt
    Not quite. Explaining the psychology of women in tech might illuminate.

    Carole Dweck is a worldwide expert on what she called Mindset, in her book of the same name. In other words, she is the Larry Page or Sergey Brin of the field. On pages 77-78 of that book, she relates the following:

    Many females have a problem not only with stereotypes, but with other people's opinion of them in general. They trust them too much.
    One day, I went into the drugstore in Hawaii … and, after fetching my items, I went to wait in line. There were two women together in front of me waiting to pay. …(A)t some point I decided to get my money ready for when my turn came. So I walked up, put the items way on the side of the counter, and started to gather up the bills that were strewn through my purse. The two women went berserk. I explained that in no way was I trying to cut in front of them. … I thought the matter was resolved, but when I left the store, they were waiting for me. They got in my face and yelled, "you're a bad-mannered person!"
    …(T)hey had a strange and disturbing effect on me, and I had a hard time shaking off their verdict.
    This vulnerability affects many of the most able, high achieving females. Why should this be? When they’re little, these girls are often so perfect and they delight in everyone's telling them so. They're so well behaved, they're so cute, they are so helpful, and they're so precocious. Girls learn to trust people's estimates of them. "Gee, everyone is so nice to me; if they criticize me, it must be true." Even females at the top universities in the country say that other people’s opinions are a good way to know their abilities.
    … The fixed mindset, plus stereotyping, plus women's trust in people's assessment: I think we can begin to understand why there's a gender gap in math and science.
     
    She goes on to discuss how boys are constantly insulting each other, and how they have to learn to fail and pick themselves up. So it's not that women, in Dweck's eyes, are as you say "bad" at tech: they're just fragile to failure, instead of being robust to it.

    I said “what men can do” on purpose. It covers technical skills but also hard to talk about but much more important things like “will to dominate”, “monomaniacal attention to detail”, “enjoying competition”, etc, all genetic.

    Saying that women could very well be good at coding if only reality was different is meaningless. Having the kind of skill that only comes out if your environment is exactly tailored to neutralize your handicaps is called “unskilled”.

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  75. @Peripatetic commenter
    I think there is more, or perhaps less, to that story than meets the eye.

    I have worked with female programmers. The best tend to be East Asians. Good ones do exist, but they are few and far between and if she was working with women with dependents they would have a lot of other concerns. Then there are the other issues of an office full of women.

    I highly doubt it is possible to get rich employing female programmers unless you are milking some sort of affirmative action fund.

    Back in the 60s there was no such thing as flextime and programming jobs were nearly all 9-5 jobs. Most of the commercial (i.e. non-military) wasn’t cutting-edge stuff, though Shirley herself seems to be a cutting-edge sort, starting out at Dollis Hill.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post_Office_Research_Station

    One of the companies I worked for (25 years later) in those days had separate career paths for men and women – I’ve seen the literature they used to send to schools and colleges in the early 1970s. It was a different world (and in many ways a better one, but there were some costs).

    Shirley saw that married women with computer skills had basically dropped out of work, because the only jobs were full time, and her company exploited that underutilised “human resource”.

    I worked alongside some of her people in the 1980s, when FI Group (as it had become) was more like a provider of contractors on demand.

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  76. Kylie says:
    @Kyle McKenna

    I hear stories like this regularly
     
    So do we all, sweetheart. Odd thing is, though, they're always self-reported anecdotes with a grand total of no corroboration whatever.

    Not that any is needed, mind you. No sirree. "Stories" which dovetail neatly with mass-media narratives serve as their own corroboration, and I'm shocked anyone would think otherwise.

    My thoughts exactly, Kyle.

    “She described how one of the men had made it clear to her that she wasn’t a cultural fit and that therefore they didn’t need to proceed with technical questions.”

    I’d love to know exactly how that man “made it clear” to her that she wasn’t a “cultural fit”.

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    • Replies: @BB753
    I'm pretty sure he didn't tell her: we don't need no sassy black ladies around here!
    , @Jus' Sayin'...

    I’d love to know exactly how that man “made it clear” to her that she wasn’t a “cultural fit”.
     
    After being forced to interview a half dozen or so laughably incompetent Negro programmers that my last employer's HR fobbed off on us in the interests of diversity, I'll hazard a guess: He probably asked her to demonstrate some basic programming skill which she claimed to have and didn't, e.g., write pseudocode to generate the first twenty primes. or do an SQL outer join of two tables, or write a c program subroutine that mimics call by reference, or .....
    , @penskefile

    I’d love to know exactly how that man “made it clear” to her that she wasn’t a “cultural fit”.
     
    Probably questions about her pick to win the next America's Cup, or perhaps her assessment of the most difficult hole at Augusta National. Favorite brand of skis? Something like that, I'm sure
    , @res

    I’d love to know exactly how that man “made it clear” to her that she wasn’t a “cultural fit”.
     
    Indeed. I'd also love to know what questions were asked. Worth mentioning that "bad cultural fit" is a pretty common "acceptable excuse" type statement IMHO.
    , @Cwhatfuture
    Agree.
    And by the way, tech companies test coders. You get problems and are asked to solve them. If you are great in that testing, the world will beat a path to your door.
    And naturally the interviewers in this case included no Indians or Asians. And that alone would be highly unusual at a tech company.
    , @Rosamond Vincy
    She wasn't a real Geek.
    Real Geeks don't care if you like them or not.
    Anyone who has met them--and they do exist among females and minorities--knows that they'll be perfectly happy to offend you by demonstrating their techn0logical superiority to you, even if it costs them the job. That arrogance and near-total-disregard of "social skills" is how Geeks find each other. It means they survived high school.
    I'd bet any money that if this woman could discuss GoT, WoW, M:TG, or better yet, argue about them, she'd have fit right in. But she wouldn't have been trying to fit in; she'd have been trying to one-up them. That is how Geeks socialize.
    Another victim of the public school trend of Cooperative Learning, because Competition BAD.
    , @Jack D
    Interviewer: "Sometimes we have projects that we have to finish on deadline. Are you willing to work overtime [nights, weekends, etc.]

    Woman: I'm a single mother and I have to be home by 5 P.M. every day. Sometimes the babysitter doesn't show up and I have to leave at 2 when D'Shawtavious, Shawnikra and Hakim get out of school. I also have to miss work sometimes to meet with my parole officer - my ex, T'kwon and I got in a little fight once but everything is fine now . Also sometimes I get in late - my car was repossessed because there was a little mixup with the finance company and the bus doesn't always come on time. On weekends I have to take the bus upstate to visit Hakim's daddy at Danemora State Prison so I'm never available. When I worked as a senior programmer for the DMV, they didn't have any problems with any of this, so I assume you won't either.
    , @Rouetheday
    Maybe he asked which Radiohead album was her favorite and things went downhill from there.
  77. BB753 says:
    @Kylie
    My thoughts exactly, Kyle.

    "She described how one of the men had made it clear to her that she wasn’t a cultural fit and that therefore they didn’t need to proceed with technical questions."

    I'd love to know exactly how that man "made it clear" to her that she wasn't a "cultural fit".

    I’m pretty sure he didn’t tell her: we don’t need no sassy black ladies around here!

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    • Replies: @Kyle McKenna
    "He said it with his eyes." I can just see it now.
  78. MarcB. says:

    Applicable skill-sets are the easiest things to find. Finding candidates whose temperament, diligence and social style fit in with the organization’s is the challenge. The friction is high whenever you bring a Type B into a workplace full of Type A’s, regardless of how easygoing and sociable they may seem on the surface.

    Every single person we’ve hired from the public sector washed out due to an inability to get along with co-workers or maintain job proficiency. When you are not pulling your weight at a lean company, it doesn’t take long before you are exposed. They seem to be able to float along at large companies with quotas and government bureaucracies indefinitely.

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  79. “And they then wrote code, usually machine code, sometimes binary code,”

    Obviously, their superior orthographic skills for those perfect little 1s and 0s!

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  80. @Wilkey
    The Vienna Philharmonic Orchestra was all male until a few years ago when they started holding auditions with the candidates physically hidden behind screens. Candidates were identified with no gender information attached, and the selection committee simply had to make its choice purely by the quality of the sound produced.

    So what fraction of the new musicians are female? That may be a valuable piece of data for your readers to know.

    Here's some data for you: a list of International Math Olympiad participants who have won at least three gold medals at the IMO. There are 44 of them. Only 2 of them appear to be female.

    The auditions for the Vienna Philharmonic (Vienna State Opera Orchestra) are not as blind as they would seem. The women hired are good looking and white. (LINK) Although the first woman was hired in 1997, it was not until 2003 that the Vienna Philharmonic hired an Asian (male). (LINK) This despite Asians being some of the best classical musicians in the world, many of whom have studied and are living in Austria.

    But to answer your question, in 2015, “Women now hold 14 of the 149 positions in the Vienna State Opera Orchestra for a ratio of 9.3%.  Ten of these women have been tenured into the Philharmonic, which currently has 140 positions, for a ratio of 7.1%.”.

    Tiny Duck gave examples of subjective selection biases. The IMO is an objective contest and its results don’t disprove what Tiny Duck said.

    Further, only 11 of the 44 triple gold IMO medalists are Asian which is abnormally low, but can probably be explained by how countries select members for their teams. Teams may be formed based on seniority, denying younger players the necessary three appearances to win three golds. Also the national level of competition may be so high that potential international gold medalists are left at home because that country has too many to choose from, sort of like the United States in Olympic basketball and women’s gymnastics.

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    • Replies: @Triumph104
    The first Asian that was hired by the Philharmonic got fired the same year. I don't know if there has been another Asian/non-white since, although supposedly there is a half white (German?)/half Asian violin player.


    Asian students comprise 25 per cent of music students in Vienna yet the Philharmonic's only non-white musician, tuba player Yasuto Sugiyama, was fired before he completed his trial year in 2003. Dr Clemens Hellsberg, VPO chairman, says that although he didn't fit, Sugiyama is "maybe one of the best tuba players in the world". He says that "even sitting in the audience, I could hear how differently he played compared to the rest of the orchestra".</blockquote>

    http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/music/features/all-white-on-the-night-why-does-the-world-famous-vienna-philharmonic-feature-so-few-women-and-ethnic-1915666.html
     

     
    , @AnonJT

    Further, only 11 of the 44 triple gold IMO medalists are Asian which is abnormally low, but can probably be explained by how countries select members for their teams. Teams may be formed based on seniority, denying younger players the necessary three appearances to win three golds. Also the national level of competition may be so high that potential international gold medalists are left at home because that country has too many to choose from, sort of like the United States in Olympic basketball and women’s gymnastics.
     
    You pretty much nailed it. In the last few decades, the most dominant country in the International Math Olympiad has been China. (Shocker, I know) But they have a policy of never sending a contestant to the same competition more than once. It's the same way with the other Olympiads (Physics, Chemistry, Informatics, etc). That's why Chinese names are strangely absent in lists of multiple medalists at these competitions despite doing very well. I've read somewhere that the chinese side justify this as wanting to give everyone a chance.

    Mainstream media likes to portray China as desperate for gold at international competitions. But when it comes to competition with brains rather than brawn, they seem to enjoy handicapping themselves. Someone who has already participated in a competition should have an advantage over someone who hasn't , all else being equal ... so why prefer the latter for a spot on the team? And, what if your best prospects have already participated? I guess that's one advantage of having a population of 1 billion people with a somewhat high-IQ: The talent pool's deep enough that you don't have to send your very best to do very well.
  81. @Kylie
    My thoughts exactly, Kyle.

    "She described how one of the men had made it clear to her that she wasn’t a cultural fit and that therefore they didn’t need to proceed with technical questions."

    I'd love to know exactly how that man "made it clear" to her that she wasn't a "cultural fit".

    I’d love to know exactly how that man “made it clear” to her that she wasn’t a “cultural fit”.

    After being forced to interview a half dozen or so laughably incompetent Negro programmers that my last employer’s HR fobbed off on us in the interests of diversity, I’ll hazard a guess: He probably asked her to demonstrate some basic programming skill which she claimed to have and didn’t, e.g., write pseudocode to generate the first twenty primes. or do an SQL outer join of two tables, or write a c program subroutine that mimics call by reference, or …..

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  82. @Peripatetic commenter

    And they then wrote code, usually machine code, sometimes binary code,
     
    So, maybe I am too young, because I wasn't programming in the '60s, but does that not smell fishy?

    I’ve never written any, but AFAIK binary code is just the instructions at the very lowest level i.e. binary. Given that we were still writing assembler in the 1980s, and that Shirley started at Dollis Hill in 1959, I wouldn’t be surprised if it happened occasionally, but most code would be assembly language or higher.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Machine_code

    She seemed to gild the lily a tad when she talked about gay and transgender coders, given that earlier she’d said she employed women with kids, but maybe, like a good businesswoman, she’s giving the TED talk customer what it wants.

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  83. Yak-15 says:
    @Lurker

    If NBA teams discriminated against blacks, they would lose to black dominated teams, etc
     
    But if all teams participated in the discrimination it would work. And thats how the how the tech industry must be doing it, they've all agreed (secretly) to hold wimmin & minorities back and enforce that on all members.

    Of course someone may point out that we in turn complain of an anti-white agenda. The difference is it's not secret, it's right out there in the open. No secret cabal is needed to enforce it behind the scenes. It works because it's public.

    Lurker, they are just righting historic wrongs. This will, of course, continue until there parity, i.e. , everyone is a Venezuelan.

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  84. Yak-15 says:
    @Steve Sailer
    In baseball, the National League tended to be inferior to the American League during the mid-Century, so the National League teams were more enthusiastic about integration, which allowed them to catch up. But by about 50 years ago you couldn't do that kind of racial arbitrage anymore.

    Why is this simple logic and the history of it playing out not more widespread?

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  85. @grapesoda

    After winning two Super Bowls by arbitraging the under representation of black pro football talent
     
    Were you trying to say "arbitrating"?

    http://www.dictionary.com/browse/arbitrate

    I have seen lots of people make this error. The reason why people make this mistake is because the noun form, "arbitrage," is more common than the verb form. So they clumsily try to make arbitrage into a verb, when it already has a verb form, "arbitrate," which is where the more common term "arbitrage" comes from.
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  86. @Kylie
    My thoughts exactly, Kyle.

    "She described how one of the men had made it clear to her that she wasn’t a cultural fit and that therefore they didn’t need to proceed with technical questions."

    I'd love to know exactly how that man "made it clear" to her that she wasn't a "cultural fit".

    I’d love to know exactly how that man “made it clear” to her that she wasn’t a “cultural fit”.

    Probably questions about her pick to win the next America’s Cup, or perhaps her assessment of the most difficult hole at Augusta National. Favorite brand of skis? Something like that, I’m sure

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  87. Thomm says:
    @Tiny Duck
    The Vienna Philharmonic Orchestra was all male until a few years ago when they started holding auditions with the candidates physically hidden behind screens. Candidates were identified with no gender information attached, and the selection committee simply had to make its choice purely by the quality of the sound produced.

    Gender bias remains pervasive throughout American culture . The higher women rise in the professions, the more they are subjected to isolation and marginalization by their male peers that leaves them out of key projects and other opportunities that would enhance their resumes.

    J.K. Rowling disguised her gender as the author of the Harry Potter series because she feared a significant segment of the population would not read her works if they realized they were written by a woman. This is also why she made her protagonist a male instead of a female.

    A few corporate CEOs who have daughters at home realize this situation represents significant barriers for them going into career situations where superior educational credentials and other qualifications will still not guarantee success.

    It is still true that once a woman has been accepted, she has to work twice as hard in order to achieve an equal measure of recognition and reward.

    It is still true that once a woman has been accepted, she has to work twice as hard in order to achieve an equal measure of recognition and reward.

    No. The opposite is true. Women get huge recognition for doing absolutely nothing. Tons of make-work sinecures are created for them. Everyone at Facebook knows that Sheryl Sandberg never did any real productive work there (she is on the road on her ‘lean in’ circus).

    Relative to output generated, women are extremely OVERpaid.

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  88. @Triumph104
    The auditions for the Vienna Philharmonic (Vienna State Opera Orchestra) are not as blind as they would seem. The women hired are good looking and white. (LINK) Although the first woman was hired in 1997, it was not until 2003 that the Vienna Philharmonic hired an Asian (male). (LINK) This despite Asians being some of the best classical musicians in the world, many of whom have studied and are living in Austria.

    But to answer your question, in 2015, "Women now hold 14 of the 149 positions in the Vienna State Opera Orchestra for a ratio of 9.3%.  Ten of these women have been tenured into the Philharmonic, which currently has 140 positions, for a ratio of 7.1%.".

    Tiny Duck gave examples of subjective selection biases. The IMO is an objective contest and its results don't disprove what Tiny Duck said.

    Further, only 11 of the 44 triple gold IMO medalists are Asian which is abnormally low, but can probably be explained by how countries select members for their teams. Teams may be formed based on seniority, denying younger players the necessary three appearances to win three golds. Also the national level of competition may be so high that potential international gold medalists are left at home because that country has too many to choose from, sort of like the United States in Olympic basketball and women's gymnastics.

    The first Asian that was hired by the Philharmonic got fired the same year. I don’t know if there has been another Asian/non-white since, although supposedly there is a half white (German?)/half Asian violin player.

    Asian students comprise 25 per cent of music students in Vienna yet the Philharmonic’s only non-white musician, tuba player Yasuto Sugiyama, was fired before he completed his trial year in 2003. Dr Clemens Hellsberg, VPO chairman, says that although he didn’t fit, Sugiyama is “maybe one of the best tuba players in the world”. He says that “even sitting in the audience, I could hear how differently he played compared to the rest of the orchestra”.</blockquote>

    http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/music/features/all-white-on-the-night-why-does-the-world-famous-vienna-philharmonic-feature-so-few-women-and-ethnic-1915666.html

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  89. It would be funny if Katharine Zaleski turned out to be a cynical and opportunistic iSteve reader.

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  90. all-white male group that failed to ask her any questions about her coding skills

    For all we know, she failed FizzBuzz and the white males recognized it would be a waste of time.

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  91. dr kill says:
    @kihowi
    Young men are hated by the establishment much, the only reason that they've not all been replaced by women must be that women are extraordinarily bad at what men can do.

    Men are better than women at everything, including being women.

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  92. Anon says: • Disclaimer
    @Jim Don Bob

    There are still a few IBM mainframe assembly programmers.
     
    Cool. What kind of app requires assembly language speed? Or is this OS level?

    Approx 90% fortune 100 still use ibm mainframe and something like 70% Fortune 500. And IBM continues to enhance operating system including its use as cloud server. To interface in any sophisticated way with the ibm OS (z/os) you need assembler (like writing 3rd party vendor software for example). IBM and assembler has been berry berry good to me. And there is demand for smart youngins to continue the work as everyone, including ibm, thought the mainframe would be dead by now so no one bothered to hire and train the next gen.

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  93. Njguy73 says:
    @james wilson
    Hank Stram picked a few million up off the grid iron. After winning two Super Bowls by arbitraging the under representation of black pro football talent the rest of the league got the memo and Hank Stram resumed being the average pro football coach he was.

    Actually, the Chiefs were 1 for 2 in Super Bowls. Lost to the Packers in ’67, beat the Vikings in ’70. But other than that, you’re right.

    Unless you’re counting the 1962 AFL Champion Dallas Texans, in which case never mind.

    Come on, cut me some slack. If I can’t be a nitpicking sports trivia geek here, where can I be?

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    • Replies: @Jim Don Bob
    Everybody beat the Vikings in the 70s. Ask Fran Tarkenton.
  94. Olorin says:
    @Alec Leamas

    She described how one of the men had made it clear to her that she wasn’t a cultural fit and that therefore they didn’t need to proceed with technical questions.
     
    stuffthatdidnthappen.txt

    "Sorry, colored lady, we cannot hire you here and pay you handsomely for your work but would prefer that you bring a lawsuit against us so that we can pay you without the bother of your having to do actual work for us."

    I agree this didn’t happen. It’s a lie.

    But to be generous I’ll call it a religious parable on order of Lilies of the Field and Falling Sparrows and Mustard Seeds and such.

    It’s a good religious parable because it makes emotional impact, not logical sense. It requires suspension of belief in reality to lend it any credibility in the first place (for the exact reason you noted).

    Having said that, is she basically saying that only technical competence should be determined in hiring?

    I’m in.

    She won’t be as soon as someone explains things to her in forward-time terms.

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  95. res says:
    @YetAnotherAnon
    Funny, I've been coding for 25 years and I'm useless at that mental rotation (e.g. the unfolded dice in the IQ tests), but then I'm mainly programming run of the mill stuff for financial companies, not quant stuff or high-frequency trading. How much spatial mental rotation ability do you need to code a function in Excel or a subroutine?

    Re assembly language, we had one guy on our training course who was a couple of standard deviations ahead of the rest of us - his code worked as well as ours, but was half the size. We could understand it when he showed us how it worked, what we couldn't work out was how he worked that method out in the beginning. Haven't coded it in decades now.

    Funny, I’ve been coding for 25 years and I’m useless at that mental rotation (e.g. the unfolded dice in the IQ tests), but then I’m mainly programming run of the mill stuff for financial companies, not quant stuff or high-frequency trading. How much spatial mental rotation ability do you need to code a function in Excel or a subroutine?

    Interesting. Did you notice this affecting differences between how you and your coworkers (or other students during education) look at and do things?

    I’m pretty good at mental rotation and wonder if that somehow accounts for some of my differences in thinking and problem solving. The most obvious connection for me would be ability to think about and manipulate complex hierarchies.

    Looking into mental rotation for another comment: http://www.unz.com/isteve/was-sergey-brins-ex-sister-in-law-the-driving-force-in-getting-james-damore-canned/#comment-1964589
    I ran across: http://humantechnology.jyu.fi/articles/volume4/2008/jones-burnett.pdf

    Abstract: Results in introductory computer programming modules are often disappointing, and various individual differences have been found to be relevant. This paper reviews work in this area, with particular reference to the effect of a student’s spatial ability. Data is presented on a cohort of 49 students enrolled on an MSc in Information Technology course at a university in the UK. A measure was taken of their mental rotation ability, and a questionnaire administered that focused on their previous academic experience, and expectations relating to the introductory computer programming module they were studying. The results showed a positive correlation between mental rotation ability and success in the module (r = 0.48). Other factors, such as confidence level, expected success, and programming experience, were also found to be important. These results are discussed in relation to the accessibility of programming to learners with low spatial ability.

    That is a small sample (with a fairly large effect, about a quarter of variance explained!), but the paper also mentions similar research results by others. The correlation was even higher (0.68) for the Object Oriented Systems module.

    I’d be interested in whether you see mental rotation as explaining anything in your programming experience. Do you have any other skills that are noticeably better than other programmers? That’s what I would expect, and thinking about skill correlations and differences is interesting to me.

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    • Replies: @YetAnotherAnon
    It may be me, but I just don't 'get' how mental rotation skills translate into programming skills at all- how do you visualise a 7-dimensional array , and if you could visualise it, how would that improve your code? l know I'd make a very poor mechanical engineer, precisely because I've not got that 'visual imagination' but I've survived 25 years as a programming and SQL person. Programming is IMHO far more procedural and mathematical than visual/spatial, despite the "Visual" prefix on some languages.
  96. Njguy73 says:
    @anonymous
    Yet they only won one WS during that span. Meanwhile the pale Yankees were the dominant team of that era.

    Meanwhile the pale Yankees were the dominant team of that era.

    Their GM, George Weiss, had the attitude of “We’ll integrate when we need to, and with the player who exemplifies the Yankee Way.” In ’54, after coming up short, they had a Black Cuban minor leaguer named Vic Power, but he was brash and dated white women. So he got traded to KC. Elston Howard integrated the team instead. He was definitely a good catcher and was a model citizen to boot. Casey Stengel said of him, “Well, when they finally get me a [slur], I get the only one who can’t run.”

    Weiss would later be GM of the Mets, and passed on drafting another Black who was dating a white girl. The player in question? Reggie Jackson.

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  97. res says:
    @Kylie
    My thoughts exactly, Kyle.

    "She described how one of the men had made it clear to her that she wasn’t a cultural fit and that therefore they didn’t need to proceed with technical questions."

    I'd love to know exactly how that man "made it clear" to her that she wasn't a "cultural fit".

    I’d love to know exactly how that man “made it clear” to her that she wasn’t a “cultural fit”.

    Indeed. I’d also love to know what questions were asked. Worth mentioning that “bad cultural fit” is a pretty common “acceptable excuse” type statement IMHO.

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  98. @Peripatetic commenter

    And they then wrote code, usually machine code, sometimes binary code,
     
    So, maybe I am too young, because I wasn't programming in the '60s, but does that not smell fishy?

    Yes, it does sound fishy. Probably assembler code at most, which is still pretty hard. But that sentence, just like the one about hiring the “trans”, is meant to punch up an old story to meet today’s standards.

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  99. Dave Pinsen says: • Website
    @Steve Sailer
    In baseball, the National League tended to be inferior to the American League during the mid-Century, so the National League teams were more enthusiastic about integration, which allowed them to catch up. But by about 50 years ago you couldn't do that kind of racial arbitrage anymore.

    I don’t follow the NBA that closely, but would it be possible to put together a team like the ’80s Celtics today, one that’s ~75% white and still championship caliber?

    If so, wouldn’t that make sense from a ratings/attendance perspective?

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    • Replies: @SportsFan
    I really doubt you could create such a team today from American White players, as the '80s Celtics were predominantly. For one, there is not a single A-list superstar American White currently, and you need at least one or two to win an NBA championship. Recent NBA All-Star teams included not one white player originally (and nobody, surprise, surprise, dared to mention that out in the open).

    There are some B-list stars, such as Gordon Hayward and Kevin Love, but they have proven to be insufficient as the #1 options to lead their teams anywhere close to a championship. (The Celtics, managed by one of their former '80s players, Danny Ainge, are currently betting $128M on Hayward to prove otherwise, and also have been trying to get Love the last few years). If you include the Euros, you might have something, but the problem is most of the best of them are big guys, so the team would be unbalanced.

    Also, if you tried to form such a team, the NBA commissioner Silver, a real SJW, and the ESJWN sports media would shut you and shout you down for being "racist". This was already happening on Boston sports radio when the Celtics were courting and signing Hayward - even though they let go three other white players to accommodate Hayward's salary (a Canadian, a Swede, and an American). I heard calls from (black) listeners to a Boston sports radio station calling the show hosts out with phrases like "you so happy you got your white boy" when they were exulting over the Celtics' getting Hayward - who's a legitimately good player, a great fit, and had played for the current Celtics coach in college.

    So, no, it couldn't happen today. There have been teams recently with 7 whites and an unquestionably dominant black superstar (OKC Thunder with Westbrook) and an NBA champion led by players with white moms (Golden State with Curry and Thompson), but no teams anywhere near contention led by white superstars or white majorities. The Celtics are again trying to change that by signing Hayward as their leader, but their rotation will be majority black.

  100. @Daniel Chieh
    Is she saying that girls are more emotionally fragile? Isn't that a gender assessment? But gender is not real!

    She is saying that. She’s also the top expert in the world in this area.

    Her idea is that you can have a fixed or flexible mindset. Fixed mindset children, a LOT of whom are high-IQ, see intelligence as something you ARE, not something you DO or USE. For example, if you have a smart child, do not praise him for his intelligence; he had little to do with that. It’s a bit like praising an Asian child because he is Asian. Praise and reward effort and resilience, and you’ll get more of those. Fixed mindset children do very well until they hit a problem they cannot solve; then they quit.

    I know a lot of high-IQ people who fit this description. It also makes sense in the case of girls; we do in fact praise them for being pretty when young (because, let’s face it, they are) but not as much for things they do or struggles they overcome.

    I think a lot of the IQ focus around here is an attempt to show that one is blessed by God, given the high amount of genetic influence (not 0, and not 100%) on IQ. The link to Calvinism is clear: the high-IQ are the elect, and the low-IQ are the damned of God. In this sense, the SJWs who denigrate IQ are correct: effort, which is largely reinforced by culture, is more important.

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  101. BS says:

    A cursory search on LinkedIn reveals 22 employees with photos, with one clearly black and the vast majority white.

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  102. @NickG

    Simple logic suggests that if the rest of America is badly underestimating the value of women engineers,

     

    No, simple observation and logic suggests that being a computer programmer is a fairly cognitively loaded or 'g' loaded field. Likely with effective practitioners being north of one standard deviation above the white mean in cognitive ability. This corresponds to an IQ of 115 as a minimum. I'd be willing to wager the cohort of coders that work at the likes of Google, Microsoft, Facebook etcetera, will all be well north of that.

    Given the American black mean IQ of 85, and taking 115 as the minimum programming cut off. Normal distribution gives us a pool of black females potentially up to snuff of about 2%. Black females represent about 6.5% of the population, 2% of 6.5 gives a pool of 0.13% of the general population. This is before interest - and cutting code doesn't strike oneself as within the domain of natural interest for your typical sistah, nor does it take account of filtering for age etcetera. Nor is it taking into account that every corporate out there is fighting tooth and nail for such black cognitive talent as there is.

    So unless you go for the race-preference window dressing, seat warmer approach, whereby people are appointed, given the title and paid but can't actually do the job, requiring a shadow headcount of competent contractors - which is the situation in South Africa, then black female coders in elite institutions are going to be about as rare as ethnically Korean NBA stars or South Asian sprint champions.

    All good. But here is a thought. I have discovered that Black Africa may not be as homogeneous as outsiders think it is. It looks like some elite tribes in places like Nigeria, Uganda and Rwanda show much better cognitive performance than the the average. Perhaps shades of India there? Anecdotally, I worked with a Nigerian programmer, here in Silicon Valley. He was real good. Was very quiet, disciplined and efficient. A good guy.

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  103. anon says: • Disclaimer

    I misunderstood the story at first. Or …. maybe I didn’t.

    I’m thinking — this firm couldn’t even make a diversity hire, although it tried. Which would indicate that they are doing the opposite of discriminating. After all … they get both a woman and a black …. a two fer.

    What was the order of events? I thought that the applicant decided to withdraw her application first. Then, there was the back and forth about cultural fit and the lack of technical questions.

    No one would EVER say that someone wasn’t a cultural fit at an INTERVIEW.

    In addition, the candidate did the firm a small favor (maybe) by withdrawing her application instead of making them reject a diversity candidate.

    In my experience with recruiters, they generally have an open backchannel with the hiring company. After an interview, they ask for informal feedback. And can also give it. The recruiter wants to maintain the relationship with the company. And companies, in general, want to use recruiters when they need them.

    The woman could have been a good candidate. Or not. Simply not enough information.

    But there is a reason that recruiters are paid (a decent percentage of the annual salary). And that is so you don’t have misunderstandings. Or any uncomfortable conversations. No one ever wants to piss off an applicant. There is always another deal. Mergers and acquisitions. Maybe the applicant will become a customer in the future. There is no reason to piss anyone off.

    And notice that the recruiter didn’t name the company? It would be uneth

    ical (sort of). But it is bad business for her. I’m wondering if it wasn’t the recruiter that told the applicant to withdraw the application instead of getting rejected. Another reason to use one with minorities. She would be finished if any minority applicant sued or formally complained about the hiring process.

    Anyway. This is a sparse story. Not enough information.

    But incredible publicity for a recruiter. New York Times.

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  104. @Steve Richter
    internet history podcast has some terrific content. Not perfect since the host is a latent liberal. Here is a recent episode with Don Melton, the manager of the team which created the apple safari web browser.
    http://www.internethistorypodcast.com/2017/07/don-melton-on-apple-safari-webkit-and-netscape/

    Melton praises time and again the brilliance of the software engineers who worked for him. Calls Brendan Eich a friend. Judging by his twitter feed and website, he is a liberal. But has nothing to say on women in tech.

    There is just no way women can do high level software work. Try reading a regular expression.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regular_expression
    The match results of the pattern
    (?<=\.) {2,}(?=[A-Z]).
    At least two spaces are matched, but only if they occur directly after a period (.) and before an upper case letter.

    There is just no way women can do high level software work. Try reading a regular expression.

    I’ve known plenty of women who are regular-expression capable. They just have no interest in it. Generally, women who are smart enough to write a regular expression are smart enough to become a lawyer or a veterinarian, which generally appeals to them more.

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  105. @anonymous-antimarxist
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katharine_Zaleski

    Zaleski worked for CNN after graduating from Dartmouth college in 2003. After college she was hired as one of the first editors of The Huffington Post in 2005, the same month the site launched.[19] She was eventually promoted to Senior News Editor.[20]
     

    Zaleski appeared alongside Valerie Jarrett at the 2015 Women In The World Summit.[16] She has also spoken at Internet Week New York[17] and Lesbians Who Tech Summit[18]
     
    A wealthy connected lefty Jewish woman who just wants to make cisgender white male techies feel and look bad.

    What makes you think she’s Jewish?

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    • Replies: @anonymous-antimarxist
    https://www.hebrewsurnames.com/ZALESKI
    , @kaganovitch
    You do realize that nine out of ten Zaleskis at the link you provide are listed as Catholic religion i.e. Polish not Jewish ethnicity , right?
  106. anon says: • Disclaimer

    By the way, the current stereotype of a coder is based on experience prior to networked PC’s. This didn’t happen in large corporations until the early to mid 90′s.

    Prior to that, all large companies used IBM mainframes. The entire ecosystem was designed around corporate culture. One thing I remember was that there was a shocking amount of documentation around IBM products. Just as an example.

    Meanwhile, PC’s were not originally designed to be networked. The original networking was done in spite of corporate IT departments, not because of them. In fact, PC’s were always beta testing software on end users. Blue Screen of Death?

    Anyway, PC’s didn’t have the same level of support as mainframe systems and required a different attitude. Someone that could deal with problems in an environment without a huge amount of support and documentation with products that weren’t polished and documented to the same extent.

    The major point isn’t so much how things are now. But rather the original, well paid, corporate computer jobs were working on IBM mainframes. And IBM evolved in a corporate environment, which is not remotely like what people think of when they think of a tech.

    I suppose there were other areas that were more geeky/engineering oriented. Like mini computers (DEC, for example) and high performance ‘super computers’ and graphics workstations.

    And women did well or well enough in the corporate/mainframe culture. The ‘Microserf’ culture where people live at their jobs is distinctly non corporate. In traditional management, a chaotic environment with loads of overtime is a symptom of bad management. Most work is repetitive over a cycle and having the same crisis every month or quarter or year end is simply sloppiness. The traditional IBM white shirt and tie and self assurance — never see them sweat — fit right in. d

    It was never totally like the ideal or archetype. But to me it partially explains why current tech isn’t as appealing to women.

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    • Replies: @anon

    By the way, the current stereotype of a coder is based on experience prior to networked PC’s.
     
    Sorry ... I meant to say " ... after networked PC's"
    , @Steve Sailer
    And IBM evolved in a corporate environment, which is not remotely like what people think of when they think of a tech.

    Right. When I started in the corporate world in 1982, the head of computing at my market research firm was a woman. That was not uncommon at the time.

    Later in the 1980s I got into a lot of clashes with her as I championed personal computers, which, not unreasonably, she saw as a threat to her dominion and likely to lead to anarchy for the company as a whole.

    I suspect the personal computer revolution often played out like this with younger males (and the PC revolution was extremely male) with personal computers undermining older executives in charge of mainframes and minicomputers, not a few of the bosses being women.

  107. AnonJT says:
    @Triumph104
    The auditions for the Vienna Philharmonic (Vienna State Opera Orchestra) are not as blind as they would seem. The women hired are good looking and white. (LINK) Although the first woman was hired in 1997, it was not until 2003 that the Vienna Philharmonic hired an Asian (male). (LINK) This despite Asians being some of the best classical musicians in the world, many of whom have studied and are living in Austria.

    But to answer your question, in 2015, "Women now hold 14 of the 149 positions in the Vienna State Opera Orchestra for a ratio of 9.3%.  Ten of these women have been tenured into the Philharmonic, which currently has 140 positions, for a ratio of 7.1%.".

    Tiny Duck gave examples of subjective selection biases. The IMO is an objective contest and its results don't disprove what Tiny Duck said.

    Further, only 11 of the 44 triple gold IMO medalists are Asian which is abnormally low, but can probably be explained by how countries select members for their teams. Teams may be formed based on seniority, denying younger players the necessary three appearances to win three golds. Also the national level of competition may be so high that potential international gold medalists are left at home because that country has too many to choose from, sort of like the United States in Olympic basketball and women's gymnastics.

    Further, only 11 of the 44 triple gold IMO medalists are Asian which is abnormally low, but can probably be explained by how countries select members for their teams. Teams may be formed based on seniority, denying younger players the necessary three appearances to win three golds. Also the national level of competition may be so high that potential international gold medalists are left at home because that country has too many to choose from, sort of like the United States in Olympic basketball and women’s gymnastics.

    You pretty much nailed it. In the last few decades, the most dominant country in the International Math Olympiad has been China. (Shocker, I know) But they have a policy of never sending a contestant to the same competition more than once. It’s the same way with the other Olympiads (Physics, Chemistry, Informatics, etc). That’s why Chinese names are strangely absent in lists of multiple medalists at these competitions despite doing very well. I’ve read somewhere that the chinese side justify this as wanting to give everyone a chance.

    Mainstream media likes to portray China as desperate for gold at international competitions. But when it comes to competition with brains rather than brawn, they seem to enjoy handicapping themselves. Someone who has already participated in a competition should have an advantage over someone who hasn’t , all else being equal … so why prefer the latter for a spot on the team? And, what if your best prospects have already participated? I guess that’s one advantage of having a population of 1 billion people with a somewhat high-IQ: The talent pool’s deep enough that you don’t have to send your very best to do very well.

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  108. anon says: • Disclaimer
    @anon
    By the way, the current stereotype of a coder is based on experience prior to networked PC's. This didn't happen in large corporations until the early to mid 90's.

    Prior to that, all large companies used IBM mainframes. The entire ecosystem was designed around corporate culture. One thing I remember was that there was a shocking amount of documentation around IBM products. Just as an example.

    Meanwhile, PC's were not originally designed to be networked. The original networking was done in spite of corporate IT departments, not because of them. In fact, PC's were always beta testing software on end users. Blue Screen of Death?

    Anyway, PC's didn't have the same level of support as mainframe systems and required a different attitude. Someone that could deal with problems in an environment without a huge amount of support and documentation with products that weren't polished and documented to the same extent.

    The major point isn't so much how things are now. But rather the original, well paid, corporate computer jobs were working on IBM mainframes. And IBM evolved in a corporate environment, which is not remotely like what people think of when they think of a tech.

    I suppose there were other areas that were more geeky/engineering oriented. Like mini computers (DEC, for example) and high performance 'super computers' and graphics workstations.

    And women did well or well enough in the corporate/mainframe culture. The 'Microserf' culture where people live at their jobs is distinctly non corporate. In traditional management, a chaotic environment with loads of overtime is a symptom of bad management. Most work is repetitive over a cycle and having the same crisis every month or quarter or year end is simply sloppiness. The traditional IBM white shirt and tie and self assurance -- never see them sweat -- fit right in. d

    It was never totally like the ideal or archetype. But to me it partially explains why current tech isn't as appealing to women.

    By the way, the current stereotype of a coder is based on experience prior to networked PC’s.

    Sorry … I meant to say ” … after networked PC’s”

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  109. @Kylie
    My thoughts exactly, Kyle.

    "She described how one of the men had made it clear to her that she wasn’t a cultural fit and that therefore they didn’t need to proceed with technical questions."

    I'd love to know exactly how that man "made it clear" to her that she wasn't a "cultural fit".

    Agree.
    And by the way, tech companies test coders. You get problems and are asked to solve them. If you are great in that testing, the world will beat a path to your door.
    And naturally the interviewers in this case included no Indians or Asians. And that alone would be highly unusual at a tech company.

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  110. Forbes says:
    @TheJester
    What is interesting is that there is no push to "diversify" the banking industry and the Federal Reserve Bank with blacks, women, Hispanics, and the LGBTxyz crowd. I guess those who control the banking industry (and what else?) see no value in establishing a caste system of affirmative action quotas where people are assigned semi-hereditary roles and status regardless of qualifications based on gender, race, religion, cultural heritage, and other immutables.

    Still, it's strange. It is almost like there is a plan to loot lucrative industries in serial order while others remain immune from attack. When disparities such as this exist, I look for ways to pull the veil away to uncover which "Wizards of Oz" are hard at work trying to manipulate our attentions and our perceptions of reality.

    Most important, given the current attacks, I wonder who in the financial community are "shorting" the tech industries. This might tell us all we need to know about "why now" related to the attacks on Silicon Valley companies with their predictable outcomes.

    Medicine, law, and MBA programs are already ~50/50 male/female. It’s engineering school that’s 80/20 male/female. Also, due to the riches of Dell, Microsoft, Apple, Google, Oracle, Facebook, et al., tech is considered prestige–so a share of these stock market windfalls should go to women…

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  111. @Buzz Mohawk
    You don't make money by hiring women...

    ...You make money by selling to women.

    Women Leaving Million Dollar Bills on the Sidewalk

    … Katharine Zaleski is the president and a co-founder of PowerToFly.com.

    I’m reminded of Steve’s excerpts from Michael Blowhard about women and weightlessness vis-à-vis ideal self-image:

    I think guys often forget what a weighty and earthbound thing it can be, being a gal. There’s so much dreariness to contend with: fatbags, hormones, moods, emotional agonies, etc. Women are weighed down by a lot of burdens, or at least they feel that they are […]

    The gals in the pages of fashion magazines and catalogs aren’t weighed down by anything, not even flesh. They burst out of cabs, they leap onto sidewalks, they let loose with irrepressible guffaws …

    Quite an entertaining thread in the “World’s Best Pixie” post: Steve at his sarcastic best, commenter “Photog” vs. everyone, etc.

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  112. Forbes says:
    @Clark Westwood

    I’m going to hire all these female coders and become the world’s first Trillionaire.
     
    LOL. Or why don't all those brilliant, underused gals team up and beat the lads at their own game? Should be pretty easy, no?

    Bingo! Funny how that idea doesn’t occur to Miss Zaleski…

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  113. Bubba says:
    @Macumazahn
    When an interview team of actual software engineers encounters a black female candidate purporting to be a "senior" software engineer, they know that hiring her would prove to be a huge mistake. Even considering the remote chance that she might in fact be qualified, they know that she'll be nothing but trouble.

    You got that right! Black women are particularly litigious and usually an HR nightmare.

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    • Replies: @Rouetheday
    My parents were sued by three employees during the 25 years they ran their restaurant business- all were Black women. The one who got the biggest payout, $30,000, died last week. My mother's been in a good mood ever since. Too soon?
  114. @res

    Funny, I’ve been coding for 25 years and I’m useless at that mental rotation (e.g. the unfolded dice in the IQ tests), but then I’m mainly programming run of the mill stuff for financial companies, not quant stuff or high-frequency trading. How much spatial mental rotation ability do you need to code a function in Excel or a subroutine?
     
    Interesting. Did you notice this affecting differences between how you and your coworkers (or other students during education) look at and do things?

    I'm pretty good at mental rotation and wonder if that somehow accounts for some of my differences in thinking and problem solving. The most obvious connection for me would be ability to think about and manipulate complex hierarchies.

    Looking into mental rotation for another comment: http://www.unz.com/isteve/was-sergey-brins-ex-sister-in-law-the-driving-force-in-getting-james-damore-canned/#comment-1964589
    I ran across: http://humantechnology.jyu.fi/articles/volume4/2008/jones-burnett.pdf

    Abstract: Results in introductory computer programming modules are often disappointing, and various individual differences have been found to be relevant. This paper reviews work in this area, with particular reference to the effect of a student’s spatial ability. Data is presented on a cohort of 49 students enrolled on an MSc in Information Technology course at a university in the UK. A measure was taken of their mental rotation ability, and a questionnaire administered that focused on their previous academic experience, and expectations relating to the introductory computer programming module they were studying. The results showed a positive correlation between mental rotation ability and success in the module (r = 0.48). Other factors, such as confidence level, expected success, and programming experience, were also found to be important. These results are discussed in relation to the accessibility of programming to learners with low spatial ability.
     
    That is a small sample (with a fairly large effect, about a quarter of variance explained!), but the paper also mentions similar research results by others. The correlation was even higher (0.68) for the Object Oriented Systems module.

    I'd be interested in whether you see mental rotation as explaining anything in your programming experience. Do you have any other skills that are noticeably better than other programmers? That's what I would expect, and thinking about skill correlations and differences is interesting to me.

    It may be me, but I just don’t ‘get’ how mental rotation skills translate into programming skills at all- how do you visualise a 7-dimensional array , and if you could visualise it, how would that improve your code? l know I’d make a very poor mechanical engineer, precisely because I’ve not got that ‘visual imagination’ but I’ve survived 25 years as a programming and SQL person. Programming is IMHO far more procedural and mathematical than visual/spatial, despite the “Visual” prefix on some languages.

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    • Replies: @res
    For me the things I see:
    - My mental rotation skills seem to load somewhat on working memory (how many ideas I can hold in my head at the same time). I think working memory is key for being able to understand complex interrelationships.
    - I am a very visual thinker. For example, thinking about how different software components interconnect and interact. I love whiteboards ; )
    - I think the spatial skills relate more to abstract ideas. I occasionally have big disconnects with programmers who prefer communicating in more concrete terms--though I have gotten better at that over the years.

    I agree that programming is largely procedural and mathematical. And those are probably more important for actual coding than spatial skills. I am surprised by how predictive mental rotation was for the programming class study I linked. I suspect the high correlation for object oriented design is an important clue (what has been your experience with OOD?).

    Part of the reason I asked about how you compare to other programmers you know was to try to tease this out a bit. Do you do better at coding than design, or particular types of coding,or ...?

    One example for myself. I'm not much of a database guy these days, but when I took my first serious database class I noticed a big difference between creating "hard" SQL queries for class and creating the "easy" ones (e.g. see next paragraph, I wrote this out of order). The hard ones are more a matter of internalizing a problem then letting my brain sort through it--I'm pretty sure this is more my visual/spatial side, but it's intuitive in a way that is hard to articulate. The easy ones are more a matter of knowing the SQL capabilities and associated syntax and rendering a straightforward mental idea into those.

    For me there is a significant split between being able to come up with innovative ideas and being able to implement ideas I have already thought through. The former I think loads more on spatial and visualization. The latter is more about attention to detail, precision in rendering ideas into code, and language knowledge.

    I have assumed your spatial skills as described are compared to other programmers (i.e. not the lower typical large population average--I think). Do you have any objective measures? I base my own assessment largely on trying some online problems and talking about my experiences with other smart people.

    Hope I am not being overly interrogating or insulting in some way. I am sincerely curious in how to think about all of this and talking about it with someone with a different talent profile and experiences is one of the best ways I know to do this.
  115. @Kylie
    My thoughts exactly, Kyle.

    "She described how one of the men had made it clear to her that she wasn’t a cultural fit and that therefore they didn’t need to proceed with technical questions."

    I'd love to know exactly how that man "made it clear" to her that she wasn't a "cultural fit".

    She wasn’t a real Geek.
    Real Geeks don’t care if you like them or not.
    Anyone who has met them–and they do exist among females and minorities–knows that they’ll be perfectly happy to offend you by demonstrating their techn0logical superiority to you, even if it costs them the job. That arrogance and near-total-disregard of “social skills” is how Geeks find each other. It means they survived high school.
    I’d bet any money that if this woman could discuss GoT, WoW, M:TG, or better yet, argue about them, she’d have fit right in. But she wouldn’t have been trying to fit in; she’d have been trying to one-up them. That is how Geeks socialize.
    Another victim of the public school trend of Cooperative Learning, because Competition BAD.

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  116. @al-Gharaniq

    After meeting with the hiring panel, she withdrew her application, telling us she felt demeaned by the all-white male group that failed to ask her any questions about her coding skills.
     
    Generally, your skills aren't in question at that point. If you're interviewing for a senior position and have a strong resume, it would be more demeaning to test whether your basic skills are up to snuff. But then she'd complain that all-white, male interviewers "questioned and tested her coding skills, despite her proven track record and accomplishments." No matter what, it's never the diversity candidate's fault she didn't get hired.

    Simple logic suggests that if the rest of America is badly underestimating the value of women engineers, then you could make a fortune by hiring women.
     
    This is the exact same logic that undermines the gender wage gap hypothesis: if firms could pay women less than men for the same amount of work (both quantity and quality), we should expect firms to hire as many women as they can. If a firm isn't maximizing its profit, it's not 1. not going to survive very long and 2. not have very many shareholders.

    On a relate note: Does anybody know why the specific focus is on closing the gender gap in the tech industry? I don't get it, it doesn't seem that there's a big push in any other industry. My suspicion is that since the big companies are in highly liberal areas, they've been targeted for the diversity issue. I wonder if this will push companies to (eventually and slowly) move out to more conservative areas once it starts eating into their profits.

    The thing that’s so bizarro about the leftist worldview is that they think that white corporate heads are reluctant to hire a well-qualified black woman, when in fact they would be desperate to hire a black woman who they were confident could do the work. It would be enormously to their benefit.

    I used to work at an advertising agency that kept trying to bring blacks into the accounts and creative departments. Top management was earnestly liberal and our clients would have been pleased to see some NAMs in our ranks. Unfortunately, these hires never seemed to work out. They were nice people, had good social skills, dressed well, but despite ample mentoring just couldn’t cut it.

    I read a book about the New York City Stakeout Unit that operated in the late 1960s, early 1970s. All the armed robbers they shot were black males. One of the officers said that they were always aware of the issue, knew it would become a problem, and were desperate to take down some whites so they could make the stats look better. The problem was, there just weren’t enough whites robbing convenience stores. As the stats became public after congressional hearings, the unit was shut down.

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    • Replies: @Forbes
    The stats haven't changed much since then. In NYC, only 2% of all gun crimes are committed by whites, 98% of all gun crimes are committed by non-whites.
    , @Peripatetic commenter

    They were nice people, had good social skills, dressed well, but despite ample mentoring just couldn’t cut it.
     
    I suspect that people who have what it takes mention mentoring so they don't have to tell the schmucks that they simply don't have what it takes to succeed in that profession.
  117. Kylie says:
    @boomstick
    "Wasn’t a cultural fit" could include something like "Programmer insisted on writing only open source code, while the company insists on writing code that is not open source."

    I’m guessing “wasn’t a cultural fit” had more to do with her asking about perks like on-site daycare, hair and nail salon, etc.

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  118. Hehe says:
    @unit472
    Perhaps a baseball stat geek would know if left handed batters have a ( small ) batting average advantage over right handed batters owing to their being a step closer to first base and other idiosyncracies of stadium layouts, predominance of right handed pitchers etc.

    Look into Right-eye dominance in picking up the baseball too. There has been a disproportionate number of natural right handed people (throw right) with right eye dominance who learn to bat lefty who have won batting champoonships. George Brett, maybe?

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  119. Forbes says:
    @Harry Baldwin
    The thing that's so bizarro about the leftist worldview is that they think that white corporate heads are reluctant to hire a well-qualified black woman, when in fact they would be desperate to hire a black woman who they were confident could do the work. It would be enormously to their benefit.

    I used to work at an advertising agency that kept trying to bring blacks into the accounts and creative departments. Top management was earnestly liberal and our clients would have been pleased to see some NAMs in our ranks. Unfortunately, these hires never seemed to work out. They were nice people, had good social skills, dressed well, but despite ample mentoring just couldn't cut it.

    I read a book about the New York City Stakeout Unit that operated in the late 1960s, early 1970s. All the armed robbers they shot were black males. One of the officers said that they were always aware of the issue, knew it would become a problem, and were desperate to take down some whites so they could make the stats look better. The problem was, there just weren't enough whites robbing convenience stores. As the stats became public after congressional hearings, the unit was shut down.

    The stats haven’t changed much since then. In NYC, only 2% of all gun crimes are committed by whites, 98% of all gun crimes are committed by non-whites.

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  120. @Harry Baldwin
    The thing that's so bizarro about the leftist worldview is that they think that white corporate heads are reluctant to hire a well-qualified black woman, when in fact they would be desperate to hire a black woman who they were confident could do the work. It would be enormously to their benefit.

    I used to work at an advertising agency that kept trying to bring blacks into the accounts and creative departments. Top management was earnestly liberal and our clients would have been pleased to see some NAMs in our ranks. Unfortunately, these hires never seemed to work out. They were nice people, had good social skills, dressed well, but despite ample mentoring just couldn't cut it.

    I read a book about the New York City Stakeout Unit that operated in the late 1960s, early 1970s. All the armed robbers they shot were black males. One of the officers said that they were always aware of the issue, knew it would become a problem, and were desperate to take down some whites so they could make the stats look better. The problem was, there just weren't enough whites robbing convenience stores. As the stats became public after congressional hearings, the unit was shut down.

    They were nice people, had good social skills, dressed well, but despite ample mentoring just couldn’t cut it.

    I suspect that people who have what it takes mention mentoring so they don’t have to tell the schmucks that they simply don’t have what it takes to succeed in that profession.

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  121. gregor says:
    @Yak-15
    This is the simplest and most powerful argument against purposeful discrimination in the work place. If women and minorities were underpaid relative to their contributions, a savvy capitalist could create a company that employed them all, paid them 90 pct more, and would drive their competitors out of business.

    The reality that liberal, money-hungry capitalists like Warren Buffett do not take advantage of this "arbitrage" points to a different reason for lack of parity in pay, job titles and success in the corporate world.

    Using black athletes as a indicator of this reality helps even the meanest-intellected of opponents understand the reality. If NBA teams discriminated against blacks, they would lose to black dominated teams, etc

    Yes, but that presupposes a productivity-oriented way of thinking about business where you want to get something done and you hire some combination of the best/most affordable people for the job. The left seems to have more of what you might call a patronage-oriented view where it’s assumed powerful instituions have big piles of (unearned) wealth and desirable jobs just get doled out to whoever has an in with the good ol boys. The assumption seems to be that these institutions will plod along no matter who’s on payroll and whatever incidental work needs to be done will magically get done.

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    • Replies: @Yak-15
    This is a good point. More than a few of these rapid leftists are woefully uneducated about business or economics. Too much time spent reasssessing Sappho's take on Greek society if she was a trans-male person of color.
  122. I used to work at an advertising agency that kept trying to bring blacks into the accounts and creative departments. Top management was earnestly liberal and our clients would have been pleased to see some NAMs in our ranks. Unfortunately, these hires never seemed to work out. They were nice people, had good social skills, dressed well, but despite ample mentoring just couldn’t cut it.

    Sounds just like where I work. I imagine this scenario is repeated thousands of times across the country.

    The NAMs in my field who actually are good (and there are some) are so much in demand that they all get plum jobs in Manhattan or D.C.

    Also — another thing leftists don’t seem to realize is that most employers would be a lot more willing to take a flyer on a NAM applicant if it weren’t so hard (damn near impossible) to fire them without getting sued if they don’t work out.

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  123. @Tiny Duck
    The Vienna Philharmonic Orchestra was all male until a few years ago when they started holding auditions with the candidates physically hidden behind screens. Candidates were identified with no gender information attached, and the selection committee simply had to make its choice purely by the quality of the sound produced.

    Gender bias remains pervasive throughout American culture . The higher women rise in the professions, the more they are subjected to isolation and marginalization by their male peers that leaves them out of key projects and other opportunities that would enhance their resumes.

    J.K. Rowling disguised her gender as the author of the Harry Potter series because she feared a significant segment of the population would not read her works if they realized they were written by a woman. This is also why she made her protagonist a male instead of a female.

    A few corporate CEOs who have daughters at home realize this situation represents significant barriers for them going into career situations where superior educational credentials and other qualifications will still not guarantee success.

    It is still true that once a woman has been accepted, she has to work twice as hard in order to achieve an equal measure of recognition and reward.

    Yeah, I’ve heard the JK Rowling thing, but the problem with this claim is that it wasn’t true even then.
    Anne Mcaffrey, Ursala Le Guine, Madeleine L’Engle had all experienced a large amount of success and respect in juvenile literature. The decision by Ms Rowling to initialize her name had little to do with her success.

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  124. NickG says:
    @neutral
    The thing with these kind of stories, that I have wondered about for some time now, is if the people writing these stories genuinely believe their narrative. I can understand they want to be polite and not raise thorny questions about racial realities, but do they really believe that there are no black female chess world champions or maths competition winners because a clique of white men are preventing them from doing this? Has anyone here ever personally known a liberal well enough to ask them if that they really believe this.

    Has anyone here ever personally known a liberal well enough to ask them if that they really believe this

    A goodly few, and in the wee small hours, after drink is taken, in my experience, invariably they don’t .

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  125. Jack D says:
    @neutral
    The thing with these kind of stories, that I have wondered about for some time now, is if the people writing these stories genuinely believe their narrative. I can understand they want to be polite and not raise thorny questions about racial realities, but do they really believe that there are no black female chess world champions or maths competition winners because a clique of white men are preventing them from doing this? Has anyone here ever personally known a liberal well enough to ask them if that they really believe this.

    No they are a little more subtle than that. What they would tell you is that girls are steered from an early age into playing with Barbies, etc. so most of them never get as far as math competitions and if they do get there, they are subtly discouraged and so on. They realize that the days of overt discrimination are largely over but they think that girls are such fragile creatures that the most subtle discouragement accounts for all the difference. But somehow in place like Iran when they make women wear burkas, women are not discouraged from STEM, only in the West.

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    • Replies: @gregor
    Those arguments are non-falsifiable. They claim women and minorities have all this latent talent and interest in STEM, but there's no point at which they'd consider the alternative, i.e., that the talent and interest we observe is pretty much all there is. A century from now they could still say we just haven't discovered the right methods to elicit the still latent talent, but surely the next round of diversity consultants will crack the code.

    They decide what percentage of women, etc. there "ought" to be in various positions, and then demand massive social manipulations to move toward this baseless predetermined percentage. It's a fundamentally absurd way to frame the matter. Yeah, kids aren't raised in a vacuum and they are influenced by things. So what? Is that supposed to be a profound insight? There's no inherent reason why the heavy-handed interventions of these social planners would necessarily be an improvement over current cultural forces, many of which have evolved over time. Quite the contrary.
  126. Clyde says:
    @snorlax
    Ironically, the massively-successful racial arbitrage practiced by the Belichick/Brady Patriots and the Auerbach/Bird Celtics indicates it’s actually white athletes who are discriminated against in those sports.

    Ironically, the massively-successful racial arbitrage practiced by the Belichick/Brady Patriots and the Auerbach/Bird Celtics indicates it’s actually white athletes who are discriminated against in those sports.

    There are not that many racial and ethnic (as in Hispanic) minorities in New England and in the Patriots fan base that have to be catered to, or else loud noises will be made. Look to the whitetopian states north of Boston and even Massachusetts itself. They buy the games on cable or might make a day of it by going to the stadium which is 40 miles south of Boston. They overtly or subliminally (being libs) appreciate seeing a Patriots team where the whites are calling the shots.
    Plus owner Bob Kraft is a Trump friend which sends a message. There is a recent photo of him dining with DJT and Melania at Mar Al Lago.

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  127. Jack D says:
    @al-Gharaniq

    After meeting with the hiring panel, she withdrew her application, telling us she felt demeaned by the all-white male group that failed to ask her any questions about her coding skills.
     
    Generally, your skills aren't in question at that point. If you're interviewing for a senior position and have a strong resume, it would be more demeaning to test whether your basic skills are up to snuff. But then she'd complain that all-white, male interviewers "questioned and tested her coding skills, despite her proven track record and accomplishments." No matter what, it's never the diversity candidate's fault she didn't get hired.

    Simple logic suggests that if the rest of America is badly underestimating the value of women engineers, then you could make a fortune by hiring women.
     
    This is the exact same logic that undermines the gender wage gap hypothesis: if firms could pay women less than men for the same amount of work (both quantity and quality), we should expect firms to hire as many women as they can. If a firm isn't maximizing its profit, it's not 1. not going to survive very long and 2. not have very many shareholders.

    On a relate note: Does anybody know why the specific focus is on closing the gender gap in the tech industry? I don't get it, it doesn't seem that there's a big push in any other industry. My suspicion is that since the big companies are in highly liberal areas, they've been targeted for the diversity issue. I wonder if this will push companies to (eventually and slowly) move out to more conservative areas once it starts eating into their profits.

    This was my thought exactly – it was a heads I win, tails you lose situation – if they HAD asked her about her programming skills, then HOW DARE you question my credentials. When you don’t hire someone like this you are dodging a bullet because when you fire them they are going to sue you no matter what.

    she felt demeaned by the all-white male group

    Just the very existence of an all-white male group is demeaning in and of itself. Nothing that they could have said or done would have made them less demeaning. If they were nice to her, then they were patronizing. If they questioned her sharply, then they were being hard on a woman of color. Whatever they did or did not do would have been wrong due to their unbearable whiteness.

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  128. @al-Gharaniq

    After meeting with the hiring panel, she withdrew her application, telling us she felt demeaned by the all-white male group that failed to ask her any questions about her coding skills.
     
    Generally, your skills aren't in question at that point. If you're interviewing for a senior position and have a strong resume, it would be more demeaning to test whether your basic skills are up to snuff. But then she'd complain that all-white, male interviewers "questioned and tested her coding skills, despite her proven track record and accomplishments." No matter what, it's never the diversity candidate's fault she didn't get hired.

    Simple logic suggests that if the rest of America is badly underestimating the value of women engineers, then you could make a fortune by hiring women.
     
    This is the exact same logic that undermines the gender wage gap hypothesis: if firms could pay women less than men for the same amount of work (both quantity and quality), we should expect firms to hire as many women as they can. If a firm isn't maximizing its profit, it's not 1. not going to survive very long and 2. not have very many shareholders.

    On a relate note: Does anybody know why the specific focus is on closing the gender gap in the tech industry? I don't get it, it doesn't seem that there's a big push in any other industry. My suspicion is that since the big companies are in highly liberal areas, they've been targeted for the diversity issue. I wonder if this will push companies to (eventually and slowly) move out to more conservative areas once it starts eating into their profits.

    But then she’d complain that all-white, male interviewers “questioned and tested her coding skills, despite her proven track record and accomplishments.”

    Good catch al-Gharaniq. This just does jump out at one. You could get it from a black man, but from a black woman it’s a given. Geez, how many times have we heard this. How many times have we heard “demeaned” in just this context.

    That said, i’m not sure she isn’t correct. It depends upon the level of her “senior engineer”hood. Could be that the company was looking at her specifically because they wanted to get more “diverse”, but in fact thought she’d take offense at coding questions being “demeaning” or thought they’d unmask her mediocrity, and were really just interviewing to see if she was a “fit”–wouldn’t be too big of a pain in the ass.

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    • Replies: @Peripatetic commenter
    Will we ever see the following truth in job advertising?

    Wanted: Affirmative Action hire to make us look more diverse!

    Duties: Sit around waiting for photo-ops, pretend to do important work.

    Salary: According to experience and how well you can bullshit.
     
  129. @Peripatetic commenter

    And they then wrote code, usually machine code, sometimes binary code,
     
    So, maybe I am too young, because I wasn't programming in the '60s, but does that not smell fishy?

    does that not smell fishy?

    Microaggression!!

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  130. @AnotherDad

    But then she’d complain that all-white, male interviewers “questioned and tested her coding skills, despite her proven track record and accomplishments.”
     
    Good catch al-Gharaniq. This just does jump out at one. You could get it from a black man, but from a black woman it's a given. Geez, how many times have we heard this. How many times have we heard "demeaned" in just this context.

    That said, i'm not sure she isn't correct. It depends upon the level of her "senior engineer"hood. Could be that the company was looking at her specifically because they wanted to get more "diverse", but in fact thought she'd take offense at coding questions being "demeaning" or thought they'd unmask her mediocrity, and were really just interviewing to see if she was a "fit"--wouldn't be too big of a pain in the ass.

    Will we ever see the following truth in job advertising?

    Wanted: Affirmative Action hire to make us look more diverse!

    Duties: Sit around waiting for photo-ops, pretend to do important work.

    Salary: According to experience and how well you can bullshit.

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  131. Anon7 says:

    There is a way to solve this problem that does not involve interference from a centralized socialist government.

    It’s simple, women should form companies and then create their own company culture that encourages female programmers. There appear to be a lot of people who believe that there are many many fine women programmers, and that there are certainly superstar female programmers, and they need to put their money where their mouth is.

    There are lots of very wealthy women who are looking for places to invest their money, and sites like kickstarter are perfect for going to the large group of American investors and people are interested in technology, and having them fund projects that they believe in.

    But of course, this never happens. It comes down to women’s nature. First, they do not want to take a chance, they want a sure thing. They also want male authority to tell everyone what to do, and to tell everyone that women must be supported and encouraged in every instance. This model has been working for American women since the temperance movement of the 1840s.

    I’d also like to point out that the biggest companies of the year 2030 have probably not been created yet. Just because, in the entire history of the fortune 500, there’s only been one female founder, that shouldn’t be a reason for discouragement. But, as I pointed out in a previous comment, women are not interested in the work of Silicon Valley, they just want the amazing lucrative exciting self-esteem enhancing paychecks from Google.

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  132. Hibernian says:
    @anonymous-antimarxist
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katharine_Zaleski

    Zaleski worked for CNN after graduating from Dartmouth college in 2003. After college she was hired as one of the first editors of The Huffington Post in 2005, the same month the site launched.[19] She was eventually promoted to Senior News Editor.[20]
     

    Zaleski appeared alongside Valerie Jarrett at the 2015 Women In The World Summit.[16] She has also spoken at Internet Week New York[17] and Lesbians Who Tech Summit[18]
     
    A wealthy connected lefty Jewish woman who just wants to make cisgender white male techies feel and look bad.

    A name like Zaleski, spelled with the “ski,” is more likely Polish Catholic than Jewish.

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  133. Jack D says:
    @anonymous-antimarxist
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katharine_Zaleski

    Zaleski worked for CNN after graduating from Dartmouth college in 2003. After college she was hired as one of the first editors of The Huffington Post in 2005, the same month the site launched.[19] She was eventually promoted to Senior News Editor.[20]
     

    Zaleski appeared alongside Valerie Jarrett at the 2015 Women In The World Summit.[16] She has also spoken at Internet Week New York[17] and Lesbians Who Tech Summit[18]
     
    A wealthy connected lefty Jewish woman who just wants to make cisgender white male techies feel and look bad.

    I see Joos under every table.

    If this woman is Jewish I’ll eat my foreskin.

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    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman

    If this woman is Jewish I’ll eat my foreskin.
     
    Hahaha! Dude, this a family blog.
  134. Jack D says:
    @Kylie
    My thoughts exactly, Kyle.

    "She described how one of the men had made it clear to her that she wasn’t a cultural fit and that therefore they didn’t need to proceed with technical questions."

    I'd love to know exactly how that man "made it clear" to her that she wasn't a "cultural fit".

    Interviewer: “Sometimes we have projects that we have to finish on deadline. Are you willing to work overtime [nights, weekends, etc.]

    Woman: I’m a single mother and I have to be home by 5 P.M. every day. Sometimes the babysitter doesn’t show up and I have to leave at 2 when D’Shawtavious, Shawnikra and Hakim get out of school. I also have to miss work sometimes to meet with my parole officer – my ex, T’kwon and I got in a little fight once but everything is fine now . Also sometimes I get in late – my car was repossessed because there was a little mixup with the finance company and the bus doesn’t always come on time. On weekends I have to take the bus upstate to visit Hakim’s daddy at Danemora State Prison so I’m never available. When I worked as a senior programmer for the DMV, they didn’t have any problems with any of this, so I assume you won’t either.

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  135. Jack D says:
    @NickG

    Simple logic suggests that if the rest of America is badly underestimating the value of women engineers,

     

    No, simple observation and logic suggests that being a computer programmer is a fairly cognitively loaded or 'g' loaded field. Likely with effective practitioners being north of one standard deviation above the white mean in cognitive ability. This corresponds to an IQ of 115 as a minimum. I'd be willing to wager the cohort of coders that work at the likes of Google, Microsoft, Facebook etcetera, will all be well north of that.

    Given the American black mean IQ of 85, and taking 115 as the minimum programming cut off. Normal distribution gives us a pool of black females potentially up to snuff of about 2%. Black females represent about 6.5% of the population, 2% of 6.5 gives a pool of 0.13% of the general population. This is before interest - and cutting code doesn't strike oneself as within the domain of natural interest for your typical sistah, nor does it take account of filtering for age etcetera. Nor is it taking into account that every corporate out there is fighting tooth and nail for such black cognitive talent as there is.

    So unless you go for the race-preference window dressing, seat warmer approach, whereby people are appointed, given the title and paid but can't actually do the job, requiring a shadow headcount of competent contractors - which is the situation in South Africa, then black female coders in elite institutions are going to be about as rare as ethnically Korean NBA stars or South Asian sprint champions.

    Given the statistics above, what are the odds that a black woman interviewing for this programming job (or ANY programming job) is really the best available candidate if the job is paying a market wage?

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  136. @al-Gharaniq

    After meeting with the hiring panel, she withdrew her application, telling us she felt demeaned by the all-white male group that failed to ask her any questions about her coding skills.
     
    Generally, your skills aren't in question at that point. If you're interviewing for a senior position and have a strong resume, it would be more demeaning to test whether your basic skills are up to snuff. But then she'd complain that all-white, male interviewers "questioned and tested her coding skills, despite her proven track record and accomplishments." No matter what, it's never the diversity candidate's fault she didn't get hired.

    Simple logic suggests that if the rest of America is badly underestimating the value of women engineers, then you could make a fortune by hiring women.
     
    This is the exact same logic that undermines the gender wage gap hypothesis: if firms could pay women less than men for the same amount of work (both quantity and quality), we should expect firms to hire as many women as they can. If a firm isn't maximizing its profit, it's not 1. not going to survive very long and 2. not have very many shareholders.

    On a relate note: Does anybody know why the specific focus is on closing the gender gap in the tech industry? I don't get it, it doesn't seem that there's a big push in any other industry. My suspicion is that since the big companies are in highly liberal areas, they've been targeted for the diversity issue. I wonder if this will push companies to (eventually and slowly) move out to more conservative areas once it starts eating into their profits.

    If you’re interviewing for a senior position and have a strong resume, it would be more demeaning to test whether your basic skills are up to snuff.

    Not at the companies I’ve been at in Silicon Valley. If you’re senior, well you can code like someone senior, and you can do it on paper, whiteboard, or laptop. If you care enough, Steve Yegge (formerly of Amazon, now at Google) has a famous post, here: https://sites.google.com/site/steveyegge2/five-essential-phone-screen-questions about the hiring he did for Amazon. There were people who had great resumes, even patents, but had lived in sinecures for too long and weren’t especially good at coding anymore, if they ever were.

    So no, not asking about coding, and claiming ‘cultural mismatch’, was the dismissal she thought it was. I can believe that all the more if it was a startup in Silicon Valley startup – I’ve gotten the impression they can be especially self-regarding about their ‘culture’.

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  137. @anon
    By the way, the current stereotype of a coder is based on experience prior to networked PC's. This didn't happen in large corporations until the early to mid 90's.

    Prior to that, all large companies used IBM mainframes. The entire ecosystem was designed around corporate culture. One thing I remember was that there was a shocking amount of documentation around IBM products. Just as an example.

    Meanwhile, PC's were not originally designed to be networked. The original networking was done in spite of corporate IT departments, not because of them. In fact, PC's were always beta testing software on end users. Blue Screen of Death?

    Anyway, PC's didn't have the same level of support as mainframe systems and required a different attitude. Someone that could deal with problems in an environment without a huge amount of support and documentation with products that weren't polished and documented to the same extent.

    The major point isn't so much how things are now. But rather the original, well paid, corporate computer jobs were working on IBM mainframes. And IBM evolved in a corporate environment, which is not remotely like what people think of when they think of a tech.

    I suppose there were other areas that were more geeky/engineering oriented. Like mini computers (DEC, for example) and high performance 'super computers' and graphics workstations.

    And women did well or well enough in the corporate/mainframe culture. The 'Microserf' culture where people live at their jobs is distinctly non corporate. In traditional management, a chaotic environment with loads of overtime is a symptom of bad management. Most work is repetitive over a cycle and having the same crisis every month or quarter or year end is simply sloppiness. The traditional IBM white shirt and tie and self assurance -- never see them sweat -- fit right in. d

    It was never totally like the ideal or archetype. But to me it partially explains why current tech isn't as appealing to women.

    And IBM evolved in a corporate environment, which is not remotely like what people think of when they think of a tech.

    Right. When I started in the corporate world in 1982, the head of computing at my market research firm was a woman. That was not uncommon at the time.

    Later in the 1980s I got into a lot of clashes with her as I championed personal computers, which, not unreasonably, she saw as a threat to her dominion and likely to lead to anarchy for the company as a whole.

    I suspect the personal computer revolution often played out like this with younger males (and the PC revolution was extremely male) with personal computers undermining older executives in charge of mainframes and minicomputers, not a few of the bosses being women.

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  138. Jack D says:
    @Tiny Duck
    The Vienna Philharmonic Orchestra was all male until a few years ago when they started holding auditions with the candidates physically hidden behind screens. Candidates were identified with no gender information attached, and the selection committee simply had to make its choice purely by the quality of the sound produced.

    Gender bias remains pervasive throughout American culture . The higher women rise in the professions, the more they are subjected to isolation and marginalization by their male peers that leaves them out of key projects and other opportunities that would enhance their resumes.

    J.K. Rowling disguised her gender as the author of the Harry Potter series because she feared a significant segment of the population would not read her works if they realized they were written by a woman. This is also why she made her protagonist a male instead of a female.

    A few corporate CEOs who have daughters at home realize this situation represents significant barriers for them going into career situations where superior educational credentials and other qualifications will still not guarantee success.

    It is still true that once a woman has been accepted, she has to work twice as hard in order to achieve an equal measure of recognition and reward.

    J.K. Rowling disguised her gender as the author of the Harry Potter series because she feared a significant segment of the population would not read her works if they realized they were written by a woman.

    Right – many famous British female authors have been forced to do the same – J.K. Austen, A, K. Christie, V.K. Woolf, B.K. Potter – they all disguised their gender. No wait, they didn’t.

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    • Replies: @Johann Ricke

    If this woman is Jewish I’ll eat my foreskin.
     
    Never say never. Maybe she's Jewish by injection.
  139. If this woman is Jewish I’ll eat my foreskin.

    Trigger Warning, please!

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  140. res says:
    @YetAnotherAnon
    It may be me, but I just don't 'get' how mental rotation skills translate into programming skills at all- how do you visualise a 7-dimensional array , and if you could visualise it, how would that improve your code? l know I'd make a very poor mechanical engineer, precisely because I've not got that 'visual imagination' but I've survived 25 years as a programming and SQL person. Programming is IMHO far more procedural and mathematical than visual/spatial, despite the "Visual" prefix on some languages.

    For me the things I see:
    - My mental rotation skills seem to load somewhat on working memory (how many ideas I can hold in my head at the same time). I think working memory is key for being able to understand complex interrelationships.
    - I am a very visual thinker. For example, thinking about how different software components interconnect and interact. I love whiteboards ; )
    - I think the spatial skills relate more to abstract ideas. I occasionally have big disconnects with programmers who prefer communicating in more concrete terms–though I have gotten better at that over the years.

    I agree that programming is largely procedural and mathematical. And those are probably more important for actual coding than spatial skills. I am surprised by how predictive mental rotation was for the programming class study I linked. I suspect the high correlation for object oriented design is an important clue (what has been your experience with OOD?).

    Part of the reason I asked about how you compare to other programmers you know was to try to tease this out a bit. Do you do better at coding than design, or particular types of coding,or …?

    One example for myself. I’m not much of a database guy these days, but when I took my first serious database class I noticed a big difference between creating “hard” SQL queries for class and creating the “easy” ones (e.g. see next paragraph, I wrote this out of order). The hard ones are more a matter of internalizing a problem then letting my brain sort through it–I’m pretty sure this is more my visual/spatial side, but it’s intuitive in a way that is hard to articulate. The easy ones are more a matter of knowing the SQL capabilities and associated syntax and rendering a straightforward mental idea into those.

    For me there is a significant split between being able to come up with innovative ideas and being able to implement ideas I have already thought through. The former I think loads more on spatial and visualization. The latter is more about attention to detail, precision in rendering ideas into code, and language knowledge.

    I have assumed your spatial skills as described are compared to other programmers (i.e. not the lower typical large population average–I think). Do you have any objective measures? I base my own assessment largely on trying some online problems and talking about my experiences with other smart people.

    Hope I am not being overly interrogating or insulting in some way. I am sincerely curious in how to think about all of this and talking about it with someone with a different talent profile and experiences is one of the best ways I know to do this.

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  141. Yak-15 says:
    @gregor
    Yes, but that presupposes a productivity-oriented way of thinking about business where you want to get something done and you hire some combination of the best/most affordable people for the job. The left seems to have more of what you might call a patronage-oriented view where it's assumed powerful instituions have big piles of (unearned) wealth and desirable jobs just get doled out to whoever has an in with the good ol boys. The assumption seems to be that these institutions will plod along no matter who's on payroll and whatever incidental work needs to be done will magically get done.

    This is a good point. More than a few of these rapid leftists are woefully uneducated about business or economics. Too much time spent reasssessing Sappho’s take on Greek society if she was a trans-male person of color.

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  142. gregor says:
    @Jack D
    No they are a little more subtle than that. What they would tell you is that girls are steered from an early age into playing with Barbies, etc. so most of them never get as far as math competitions and if they do get there, they are subtly discouraged and so on. They realize that the days of overt discrimination are largely over but they think that girls are such fragile creatures that the most subtle discouragement accounts for all the difference. But somehow in place like Iran when they make women wear burkas, women are not discouraged from STEM, only in the West.

    Those arguments are non-falsifiable. They claim women and minorities have all this latent talent and interest in STEM, but there’s no point at which they’d consider the alternative, i.e., that the talent and interest we observe is pretty much all there is. A century from now they could still say we just haven’t discovered the right methods to elicit the still latent talent, but surely the next round of diversity consultants will crack the code.

    They decide what percentage of women, etc. there “ought” to be in various positions, and then demand massive social manipulations to move toward this baseless predetermined percentage. It’s a fundamentally absurd way to frame the matter. Yeah, kids aren’t raised in a vacuum and they are influenced by things. So what? Is that supposed to be a profound insight? There’s no inherent reason why the heavy-handed interventions of these social planners would necessarily be an improvement over current cultural forces, many of which have evolved over time. Quite the contrary.

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  143. @Cagey Beast
    Do an image search for "Katharine Zaleski" and one finds a White woman with a prideful smirk in almost every photo. The system sure has found a way to exploit a particular human resource: the delight women feel bossing around and presenting challenges to the men of their own tribe.

    White women get hired to use their natural instinct to nag White men into being a good provider and to be "man enough" to stand up to challenges. The only problem with using the instinct to screech "baby needs a new pair of shoes! If you were any kind of man you'd get out there an make this happen!" as a motivator is that "baby" is a Black lesbian programmer. Nice White ladies take their social cues from Slate, the NYT and TV and then turn around and scold their men to conform to what the media created global village wants. "Keeping up with the Jones' " -- being a global villager in good standing -- means being man enough to give away another White guy's job or even your own.

    Keep in mind though that nice, young White ladies with smirky smiles still want to marry nice, young White men who are higher status, a little older and quite a bit richer than themselves. So white guys need to handicap themselves in the career race but somehow still come out ahead. "Well, if they were a bunch of insecure guys who can't handle change, and still live in their mom's basement, they'd be able to do this!".

    I read your comment this morning, C. Beast, but didn’t have time to write here. This is one of the best comments I’ve read in a long time – very insightful. I’ve noticed the two conflicting things that you mention woman want from the white men, but never saw them before as this major contradiction.

    It reminds me of a lady I knew who said “I like sensitive guys” then a few minutes later “I like guys with confidence.” They are in contradiction most of the time, and this woman wasn’t stupid either, just a woman.

    Your comment should be in some kind of special-colored box, CB.

    ******************************************************************
    There’s a way to turn these contradictions around on them sometimes, if you’re shrewd (meaning a little dishonest) with them. For instance, when talking about getting a diamond ring for her for the engagement (the biggest scam since Social Security), it goes like this:

    “Listen, I’d love to buy you that big diamond we saw at Jarrod, and yes I know it makes you horny happy (for a while). It’s just that, sob sob …”

    “Yes? What’s wrong, honey… wait, you’ve GOT THE MONEY, don’t you?!”

    “Yes, it’s not that … it’s just … well, the terrible conditions in the mines in these countries in Africa … I’m so concerned. There are murders every day. Rape! Genocide! I can’t be part of this … no way!”

    “Ohhh…. ”

    “Yeah, I think I should get you a ruby instead. Sure, they’re, cough, cough .. a little bit, cough, cough, cheaper, but they come from different African countries where there’s no genocide and all the miners do is kick the ever-lovin’ shit out of each other.”

    ******************************************************************

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  144. @anonymous-antimarxist
    https://www.hebrewsurnames.com/ZALESKI

    So there are Catholic, Orthodox, and Jewish people named Zaleski?

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  145. @TheJester
    What is interesting is that there is no push to "diversify" the banking industry and the Federal Reserve Bank with blacks, women, Hispanics, and the LGBTxyz crowd. I guess those who control the banking industry (and what else?) see no value in establishing a caste system of affirmative action quotas where people are assigned semi-hereditary roles and status regardless of qualifications based on gender, race, religion, cultural heritage, and other immutables.

    Still, it's strange. It is almost like there is a plan to loot lucrative industries in serial order while others remain immune from attack. When disparities such as this exist, I look for ways to pull the veil away to uncover which "Wizards of Oz" are hard at work trying to manipulate our attentions and our perceptions of reality.

    Most important, given the current attacks, I wonder who in the financial community are "shorting" the tech industries. This might tell us all we need to know about "why now" related to the attacks on Silicon Valley companies with their predictable outcomes.

    That’s an interesting idea, Jester. I give the banskters credit for being shrewd and ruthless, but not that clever. I could be wrong though. I imagine there’s nothing illegal about siccing BIG-PC on some of the companies you want to short. Of course, whatever they are going to do can be made legal one way or another.

    It’d be cool if the big banks and financial firms became at odds with one another and started to sic the government on each other. It would be like neighbors who get on the wrong foot, and each one calls someone from the city to complain about an old car in the yard or raggedy couches on the porch. The only one who wins is the house city.

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  146. @Jack D
    I see Joos under every table.

    http://www.womenshealthmag.com/sites/womenshealthmag.com/files/articles/2016/05/katharine-zaleski-override.jpg

    If this woman is Jewish I'll eat my foreskin.

    If this woman is Jewish I’ll eat my foreskin.

    Hahaha! Dude, this a family blog.

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  147. @anonymous-antimarxist
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katharine_Zaleski

    Zaleski worked for CNN after graduating from Dartmouth college in 2003. After college she was hired as one of the first editors of The Huffington Post in 2005, the same month the site launched.[19] She was eventually promoted to Senior News Editor.[20]
     

    Zaleski appeared alongside Valerie Jarrett at the 2015 Women In The World Summit.[16] She has also spoken at Internet Week New York[17] and Lesbians Who Tech Summit[18]
     
    A wealthy connected lefty Jewish woman who just wants to make cisgender white male techies feel and look bad.

    Both Zaleski and her husband Rufus Lusk both have Ashkenazi Jewish Surnames

    https://www.hebrewsurnames.com/ZALESKI

    http://www.genealogy.com/forum/surnames/topics/lusk/1744/

    I would say odds are better than 50%

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    • Replies: @kaganovitch
    Again, if you look around %90 percent of Lusks are non Jewish . Your link is to an idiosyncratic take on Lusk whose author thinks Lusk is exclusively Slavic. In reality vast majority of American Lusks are of British provenance. Slim chance she's Jewish.
  148. @Hero Kid Comics
    Ve haf ways of making you accept ze mass immigration!

    https://www.thesun.co.uk/tech/4246768/western-people-become-kinder-to-migrants-when-fed-the-human-love-hormone-oxytocin-and-exposed-to-peer-pressure-german-scientists-say/amp/

    And what makes migrants kinder to western people?

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  149. @Kylie
    My thoughts exactly, Kyle.

    "She described how one of the men had made it clear to her that she wasn’t a cultural fit and that therefore they didn’t need to proceed with technical questions."

    I'd love to know exactly how that man "made it clear" to her that she wasn't a "cultural fit".

    Maybe he asked which Radiohead album was her favorite and things went downhill from there.

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  150. @Bubba
    You got that right! Black women are particularly litigious and usually an HR nightmare.

    My parents were sued by three employees during the 25 years they ran their restaurant business- all were Black women. The one who got the biggest payout, $30,000, died last week. My mother’s been in a good mood ever since. Too soon?

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  151. Dave Pinsen says: • Website
    @Steve Sailer
    So there are Catholic, Orthodox, and Jewish people named Zaleski?

    I knew a Catholic one. Hungarian, I think.

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  152. @Jack D

    J.K. Rowling disguised her gender as the author of the Harry Potter series because she feared a significant segment of the population would not read her works if they realized they were written by a woman.
     
    Right - many famous British female authors have been forced to do the same - J.K. Austen, A, K. Christie, V.K. Woolf, B.K. Potter - they all disguised their gender. No wait, they didn't.

    If this woman is Jewish I’ll eat my foreskin.

    Never say never. Maybe she’s Jewish by injection.

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  153. An African American female coder … I’ve never heard of much less seen one. I might have hired her simply for the novelty and, more importantly, for the good diversity karma, i.e. the legal shield she would provide. In that respect, they really did leave a pile of money on the street.

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    • Replies: @Art Deco
    The Bureau of Labor Statistics has it that 22.5% of computer programmers are female and 7.6% are black, so if the frequency does not co-vary 1.7% should be black females.
  154. FPD72 says:
    @unit472
    Perhaps a baseball stat geek would know if left handed batters have a ( small ) batting average advantage over right handed batters owing to their being a step closer to first base and other idiosyncracies of stadium layouts, predominance of right handed pitchers etc.

    Any advantage that left handed batters receive from being closer to first base and from facing proportionally more opposite handed pitchers is at least partially offset by the wider strike zone that umpires call against them. Studies have shown a strike zone that extends a couple of inches more from the outside edge of the plate than is called against right handed batters. You can see this for yourself with the strike zone box that is projected on TV.

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  155. @kaganovitch
    What makes you think she's Jewish?

    You do realize that nine out of ten Zaleskis at the link you provide are listed as Catholic religion i.e. Polish not Jewish ethnicity , right?

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    • Replies: @kaganovitch
    Sorry, that should have been Catholic or Orthodox Christian
  156. @kaganovitch
    You do realize that nine out of ten Zaleskis at the link you provide are listed as Catholic religion i.e. Polish not Jewish ethnicity , right?

    Sorry, that should have been Catholic or Orthodox Christian

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  157. SportsFan says:
    @Dave Pinsen
    I don't follow the NBA that closely, but would it be possible to put together a team like the '80s Celtics today, one that's ~75% white and still championship caliber?

    If so, wouldn't that make sense from a ratings/attendance perspective?

    I really doubt you could create such a team today from American White players, as the ’80s Celtics were predominantly. For one, there is not a single A-list superstar American White currently, and you need at least one or two to win an NBA championship. Recent NBA All-Star teams included not one white player originally (and nobody, surprise, surprise, dared to mention that out in the open).

    There are some B-list stars, such as Gordon Hayward and Kevin Love, but they have proven to be insufficient as the #1 options to lead their teams anywhere close to a championship. (The Celtics, managed by one of their former ’80s players, Danny Ainge, are currently betting $128M on Hayward to prove otherwise, and also have been trying to get Love the last few years). If you include the Euros, you might have something, but the problem is most of the best of them are big guys, so the team would be unbalanced.

    Also, if you tried to form such a team, the NBA commissioner Silver, a real SJW, and the ESJWN sports media would shut you and shout you down for being “racist”. This was already happening on Boston sports radio when the Celtics were courting and signing Hayward – even though they let go three other white players to accommodate Hayward’s salary (a Canadian, a Swede, and an American). I heard calls from (black) listeners to a Boston sports radio station calling the show hosts out with phrases like “you so happy you got your white boy” when they were exulting over the Celtics’ getting Hayward – who’s a legitimately good player, a great fit, and had played for the current Celtics coach in college.

    So, no, it couldn’t happen today. There have been teams recently with 7 whites and an unquestionably dominant black superstar (OKC Thunder with Westbrook) and an NBA champion led by players with white moms (Golden State with Curry and Thompson), but no teams anywhere near contention led by white superstars or white majorities. The Celtics are again trying to change that by signing Hayward as their leader, but their rotation will be majority black.

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  158. @anonymous-antimarxist
    Both Zaleski and her husband Rufus Lusk both have Ashkenazi Jewish Surnames

    https://www.hebrewsurnames.com/ZALESKI

    http://www.genealogy.com/forum/surnames/topics/lusk/1744/

    I would say odds are better than 50%

    Again, if you look around %90 percent of Lusks are non Jewish . Your link is to an idiosyncratic take on Lusk whose author thinks Lusk is exclusively Slavic. In reality vast majority of American Lusks are of British provenance. Slim chance she’s Jewish.

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  159. Art Deco says:
    @The Alarmist
    An African American female coder ... I've never heard of much less seen one. I might have hired her simply for the novelty and, more importantly, for the good diversity karma, i.e. the legal shield she would provide. In that respect, they really did leave a pile of money on the street.

    The Bureau of Labor Statistics has it that 22.5% of computer programmers are female and 7.6% are black, so if the frequency does not co-vary 1.7% should be black females.

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    • Replies: @The Alarmist
    Not saying they don't exist, just that I've never seen any.
    , @res
    For those who like references to their data, this looks like it: https://www.bls.gov/cps/cpsaat11.htm
    Notice that the figure for women is 22.6% there. A trivial difference in this case, but perhaps an indication of why including references is desirable?

    The question of whether the frequency co-varies is an interesting one. I can come up with just so stories for black women to be represented either more or less than 1.7%, but on balance I would guess a bit more. Empirical data would be good.
  160. @Art Deco
    The Bureau of Labor Statistics has it that 22.5% of computer programmers are female and 7.6% are black, so if the frequency does not co-vary 1.7% should be black females.

    Not saying they don’t exist, just that I’ve never seen any.

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  161. @Njguy73
    Actually, the Chiefs were 1 for 2 in Super Bowls. Lost to the Packers in '67, beat the Vikings in '70. But other than that, you're right.

    Unless you're counting the 1962 AFL Champion Dallas Texans, in which case never mind.

    Come on, cut me some slack. If I can't be a nitpicking sports trivia geek here, where can I be?

    Everybody beat the Vikings in the 70s. Ask Fran Tarkenton.

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  162. res says:
    @Art Deco
    The Bureau of Labor Statistics has it that 22.5% of computer programmers are female and 7.6% are black, so if the frequency does not co-vary 1.7% should be black females.

    For those who like references to their data, this looks like it: https://www.bls.gov/cps/cpsaat11.htm
    Notice that the figure for women is 22.6% there. A trivial difference in this case, but perhaps an indication of why including references is desirable?

    The question of whether the frequency co-varies is an interesting one. I can come up with just so stories for black women to be represented either more or less than 1.7%, but on balance I would guess a bit more. Empirical data would be good.

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  163. @Steve Sailer
    The Brooklyn Dodgers went to six World Series in ten years, 1947-1956, by being out ahead of everybody else in hiring black baseball players, including six MVPs: Jackie Robinson 1949, Roy Campanella, 1951 1953 1955, and Don Newcombe 1956.

    Conversely, the Boston Red Sox were the last team to integrate. Curse of the Bambino, indeed.

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  164. @BB753
    I'm pretty sure he didn't tell her: we don't need no sassy black ladies around here!

    “He said it with his eyes.” I can just see it now.

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  165. @Peter Lund
    It *was* possible to get rich by hiring women, once.

    "She wanted to create job opportunities for women with dependents, and predominantly employed women, with only 3 male programmers in the first 300 staff, until the Sex Discrimination Act 1975 made that practice illegal. She adopted the name, Steve, to help her in the male-dominated business world"

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Shirley

    I know older retired women who are experts in business computer programming but don’t know how to use the internet. Also they criticise present day digital solutions citing 1980s tech problems based on that era’s limitations. We are trying to digitise a bunch of retirees’ hobby club and meeting all sorts of resistance because of their extremely narrow understanding. It would be easier if they knew nothing.

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  166. In the larger article by Zaleski, she writes, “Can I have a family without compromising my career?”

    You can have both a job and a family but you cannot have both an uncompromised career and a family. One will suffer. She is asking questions for which she should know the answers, in a grounded universe.

    She also writes, “We have to tell these companies to talk just as proudly about their parental-leave policies, child-care programs and breast-pumping rooms.”

    Get real. Women seem to expect to maintain an operational and functioning, productive womb anytime and anywhere they walk in life, especially when a company is paying them money to be productive to the financial bottom line. A womb is everyone’s priority, these women think. Zaleski expects both a productive womb and not just a job but an uncompromised career. You can’t have both. Why is that not obvious to her? I’ve always said that it takes women decades to learn anything and in the mean time they take society on a wild ride.

    Women are not special people. Women are persons just like anyone else. The language of women is broken, however, when they cannot grasp their own nonsense. There are smarter women out there than this. Smarten up.

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  167. Martha Lane Fox committed a similar error, denouncing venture capitalists for ignoring women’s talent. With her own experience and wealth, she is one of the best placed people in the world to pick up these discarded million dollar bills. But of course she thinks that’s somebody else’s job.

    https://www.theguardian.com/media/2015/oct/04/martha-lane-fox-condemns-bias-against-women-in-tech-sector

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