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Without Immigration, Tokyo More Than Doubles Housing Space Per Person
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Screenshot 2017-06-26 02.09.58

Clearly, the Japanese should instead have chosen mass immigration so that they could continue to live in 640 sq. ft. per family of four instead of 1400 sq. ft. per family of four.

Seriously, here’s an interesting thread on the successes of Japanese housing policy.

Here in America, we constantly hear about how awful the Japanese economy is, but that’s largely because it hasn’t done much of anything for Wall Street since the giant Bubble popped around 1990. But, the Japanese economy has been fairly successful for the Japanese.

 
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  1. Wouldn’t this have more to do with a declining/stagnating population growth due to birth rates rather than immigration policies per se?

    Sure, immigration does increase population growth and inflate birth rates, but absent that, this (intuitively) seems to be the result of a declining birth rates + smart housing policies. It seems far-fetched to tie immigration to this.

    • Replies: @CAL
    Of course it has to do with a declining population. It has to do with that and not doing the "WE MUST IMPORT PEOPLE TO CONTINUOUSLY INCREASE OUR POPULATION OR WE ARE DOOMED!" thinking. Virtually every economist will tell you that Japan is doomed because it isn't importing people to increase its population. Those economic units/people are all important to a society and the more you have the better under this logic. So, they are tied together because in the hive-mind of the economics academy, this is a disaster for Japan.
    , @Anonymous
    Nonsense.

    The Japanese population is still around the highest it's ever been.
    By simple arithmetic adding more people to the population by immigration can only mean more pressure on housing.
    , @hackberry
    Steve's graph is living space per capita in Tokyo, and the population of Tokyo proper (23 wards) is NOT declining:
    http://population.city/japan/tokyo/

    In fact it was during the bubble years the population declined, and after the bubble burst and the new national zoning laws took effect the population of Tokyo has increased, living space per capita has increased, and prices have stabilized.
    This has nothing to do with immigration and everything to do with smart zoning laws, especially by-right building:

    http://urbankchoze.blogspot.com/2014/04/japanese-zoning.html
    , @Achmed E. Newman

    ... this (intuitively) seems to be the result of a declining birth rates + smart housing policies. It seems far-fetched to tie immigration to this.
     
    OK, let me rephrase Steve's point in another way. The better quality of life in Japan is tied to the lack of immigration.. Is it easier to understand this way around?

    Of course the birth rates are a factor and whatever statist housing policies, who knows about that part? The point is, whether the population in Japan had kept on increasing greatly as in the past to bring them to 250,000,000 people now, or fertility declined, as it has, yet massive immigration was implemented, bring the population to 250,000,000 people now, the same problems would result (plus, many addtional hardships from the curses blessings of diversity!)
    , @ben tillman

    Sure, immigration does increase population growth and inflate birth rates, but absent that, this (intuitively) seems to be the result of a declining birth rates + smart housing policies. It seems far-fetched to tie immigration to this.
     
    No, it doesn't. Declining birth rates have no effect on anything in the absence of immigration restriction.
  2. Kyle McKenna [AKA "Mika-Non"] says:

    There’s nothing wrong with Japan that can’t be fixed with a few hundred million Africans, Chinese, Latinos, Indians, etc etc.

    I personally resent the notion that the Japanese–with one of the world’s highest standards of living and a notoriously safe, clean, and civil society–shouldn’t be required to join in the fun that the world’s (previously) white nations are having.

    • Replies: @White Guy In Japan
    Oh, we get some vibrancy here in Japan. Just enough to know we don't want anymore.
    http://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2015/10/25/national/seven-injured-clashes-outside-turkish-embassy/

    Or search for Iranian murders in Nagoya.
    , @1661er
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demography_of_Imperial_Japan#Japanese_overseas_possessions

    Both of my parents were born with Japanese citizenship. They were among the 30-35 millions who lost Japanese citizenship after WWII. There is a lot of talk currently about restoring membership in the royal family as it's currently very dire.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_succession_controversy#Current_situation

    So if Japan can almost offer to restore citizenship to those who lost it in 1945-52. With priority to people who had served in the Imperial Japanese Army like the heroic elite
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Takasago_Volunteers
    , @mighty EDAR
    Incase you didnt notice genius, the chinese are the same race as japanese, carriers of the mighty EDAR gene,so your wrong the chinese would be real good for the the japanese since it would increase the EDAR genes in japanese, whitey is the race that should be banned from japan since your genes are the worst among all races,also whitey especially the small brained basque british, go to japan with dishonourable intentions only, and the darker races go to japan only to earn money and not to take advantage of the naive asian women like whitey like you do.
    , @anonymous
    Japan is thought to be a very xenophobic nation, suspicious of foreigners and foreign culture (just ask St. Francis Xavier) but as we have seen over the centuries they will not hesitate to embrace certain aspects of foreign culture so long as it serves their needs. Thus far, they have managed to retain their ethnic and cultural identity. But this cannot happen absent arguably the most rigid immigration laws on earth. Good for them!
  3. How relevant to your recent posts.

    https://newrepublic.com/article/143019/one-meal-day-lake-chad-vanishes-seven-million-people-starvation

    Now a word about how the soaring population growth of Niger, Nigeria, Chad and Cameroon might be contributing to the depletion of this shallow lake. But of course, Africans have no agency.

    • Replies: @Autochthon
    This is my favourite caption from the corny photographs:

    A bowl of peanuts, ground into an oily paste used to flavor bland food. Cameroonian women grind the nuts and mix the paste with their bare hands, leaving it to dry in the midday sun.
     
    In a place with inadequate water (the story's headline is the desiccation of a lake!) the thing to do is leave peanut oil out in the baking sun until all its moisture has evaporated, then eat it – you know, so you don't accidentally ingest any of the water the peanuts contained.

    No agency, indeed.

    , @res
    It is all about the feelz. A few paragraphs of text and a multitude of evocative photographs.

    But remember, there will be no problem increasing the agricultural output of Africa to feed its future four billion people!

    And speaking to the "no agency" point, how many of the issues cited were countermeasures to local conflict (e.g. no crops providing concealment near roads, no fertilizer because explosives)?
    , @MBlanc46
    Bugger the New Republic. My plate is full because my ancestors worked hard (and intelligently) to build a prosperous society. I've done my bit to maintain that society. I won't venture a guess as to why the Sub-Saharan Africans haven't done likewise, but it's nothing to do with me.
    , @Chris Mallory
    What is really funny, is the article has one of the photographs mislabeled.

    They are calling a stalk of millet or sorghum, "red maize". Maize is corn.
  4. That’s exactly it. The western press speaks to plutocrats, and Japan indeed is a horrible place to invest.

    That said, Japanese wages remain stagnant, purchasing power is down due to raising withholding taxes to pay for Medicare, so Japanese living standards aren’t exactly rising.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    I've never been to Japan so I don't know anything, but my vague impression is that their standard of living is slowly rising due to accumulation of nice things over time.
    , @Autochthon
    The Japanese participate in Medicare?! Holy moly, with their disproportionately aged population, no wonder such entitlements have become unsustainable Pyramid schemes. Then again, as long as we are taxing them to pay for it, we are getting a better deal than we do from all the freeloading, aged relations imported by invading Hindoos and Chinamen who never even contribute to the system....
    , @Anonymous
    Actually, incomes in the UK have stagnated for the past 10 years at least.
    This despite unprecedented massive levels of immigration.
    In quite a few years UK GDP per capita actually declined due to population growth outstripping economic growth.
    , @YetAnotherAnon
    Real (inflation adjusted) UK median male wages 2016 are lower than 1997, so that's 19 years of decline. When the 2017 figures come out they'll be lower still. And inflation figures ignore the huge increases in house prices and rents.

    Wage data - https://www.ons.gov.uk/employmentandlabourmarket/peopleinwork/earningsandworkinghours#timeseries

    Inflation data - http://www.bankofengland.co.uk/education/Pages/resources/inflationtools/calculator/default.aspx

    "Japan indeed is a horrible place to invest"

    That's the paradox of investing in a monoracial, high-IQ society - they are more likely to be successful, but less likely to want to give money to outsiders and anyway are more egalitarian. Best bet for the plutocrat is a formerly monoracial, still high-IQ society, where "muh GDP" is everything and income differentials are large.

    , @Cloudbuster
    Stagnant wages don't matter if their inflation rate is also stagnant, which it pretty much is, right now:

    https://tradingeconomics.com/japan/inflation-cpi
  5. @al-Gharaniq
    Wouldn't this have more to do with a declining/stagnating population growth due to birth rates rather than immigration policies per se?

    Sure, immigration does increase population growth and inflate birth rates, but absent that, this (intuitively) seems to be the result of a declining birth rates + smart housing policies. It seems far-fetched to tie immigration to this.

    Of course it has to do with a declining population. It has to do with that and not doing the “WE MUST IMPORT PEOPLE TO CONTINUOUSLY INCREASE OUR POPULATION OR WE ARE DOOMED!” thinking. Virtually every economist will tell you that Japan is doomed because it isn’t importing people to increase its population. Those economic units/people are all important to a society and the more you have the better under this logic. So, they are tied together because in the hive-mind of the economics academy, this is a disaster for Japan.

  6. Of course, most Tokyoites inhabit multi-storey high-rise type buildings. Millions upon millions of them.
    – and scarcely a Grenfell Tower in sight.

    • Replies: @PiltdownMan

    Of course, most Tokyoites inhabit multi-storey high-rise type buildings. Millions upon millions of them.
    - and scarcely a Grenfell Tower in sight.
     
    Actually, most of Tokyo is relatively low rise, because Tokyo is built on the loose foundation of a volcanic rubble bowl, which accounts for almost daily earthquakes, many of which are perceptible. Skyscrapers are very expensive to build, because of the hydraulic cushioning/counterweighted suspension foundations needed.

    When I lived there, I lived in a 9 storey apartment building, which was considered to be high. There have been a couple of luxury high end high-rise apartment building built in the last 15 years in the Ark Hills development, but they are atypical. 3-5 storeys is the norm.

    Contrary to outside impressions, Tokyo is built up, but feels mostly open, and the central several square miles of Tokyo are a very much a walker's city. It is far from being an oppressive rabbit's warren.

  7. b-b-but wut about economic growth?

    • Replies: @Travis
    per capita GDP is actually growing faster in Japan than the United States and Europe over the last decade. More living space per person also indicates that their standard of living is getting better.

    we should expect their GDP to be stagnant as the population over 60 has increased dramatically. Old people spend less money than the young, but while not being productive can often live well on a moderate budget, as they already own their homes and have already raised their children.
  8. @spandrell
    That's exactly it. The western press speaks to plutocrats, and Japan indeed is a horrible place to invest.

    That said, Japanese wages remain stagnant, purchasing power is down due to raising withholding taxes to pay for Medicare, so Japanese living standards aren't exactly rising.

    I’ve never been to Japan so I don’t know anything, but my vague impression is that their standard of living is slowly rising due to accumulation of nice things over time.

    • Replies: @White Guy In Japan
    Still quite nice here. Some population shrinkage cuts down on traffic and frees up some space.
    My job field has shrunk a bit, but that cuts away the dross.
    Quite a lovely country. Come visit us!
    , @jjbees
    One of the unspoken costs of living in the diverse west, is that no one feels the desire to plant any trees for the next generation, or any responsibility towards leaving the place better off.

    Even if you ask someone that doesn't think about politics at all about life, they will typically say things like "Why would I want to bring children into this effed up world?" and we all know what they mean when they say "effed up" because, consciously or unconsciously, they understand that diversity means everything they work hard to build will simply be divvied up by the "new" americans as soon as they are gone. It's hard to find the motivation to make your world beautiful or leave something for the next generation when you can't even afford grandchildren, or insure english will even be spoken in your neighborhood fifteen years from now.

    , @PiltdownMan

    I’ve never been to Japan so I don’t know anything, but my vague impression is that their standard of living is slowly rising due to accumulation of nice things over time.
     
    Median net worth in Japan is about $120,000. That in the US is about $45,000.

    Their economy isn't growing, but they are stuck at a very high first world level of personal income, and have a positive savings rate, high job security and protections, and very tightly controlled immigration and they feel a whole lot richer.

    What's not to like?

    , @spandrell
    There's something to that, indeed. But the decreasing amount of rent is making rent-seeking battles very acrimonious these days. And Western pozz is increasing slowly but steadily.

    Nice things stop mattering very fast when 30% of the population can't be bothered to have sex out of sheer mistrust of the other sex.
  9. @Kyle McKenna
    There's nothing wrong with Japan that can't be fixed with a few hundred million Africans, Chinese, Latinos, Indians, etc etc.

    I personally resent the notion that the Japanese--with one of the world's highest standards of living and a notoriously safe, clean, and civil society--shouldn't be required to join in the fun that the world's (previously) white nations are having.

    Oh, we get some vibrancy here in Japan. Just enough to know we don’t want anymore.
    http://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2015/10/25/national/seven-injured-clashes-outside-turkish-embassy/

    Or search for Iranian murders in Nagoya.

    • Replies: @Pericles
    Or those two muslim refugees who, after arrival, soon raped some poor woman in a public convenience. It's the "Hello, nice to meet you" of Islam.

    http://www.tokyoreporter.com/2016/02/22/tokyo-cops-arrest-turkish-asylum-seekers-in-gang-rape-of-woman/
    , @3g4me
    @ 9 White Guy in Japan: The link notes there are more than 3500 Turks in Japan. Other than the handful at the Embassy, why are there ANY Turks in Japan? What need do they fill? Serious question.
  10. @Steve Sailer
    I've never been to Japan so I don't know anything, but my vague impression is that their standard of living is slowly rising due to accumulation of nice things over time.

    Still quite nice here. Some population shrinkage cuts down on traffic and frees up some space.
    My job field has shrunk a bit, but that cuts away the dross.
    Quite a lovely country. Come visit us!

  11. @Steve Sailer
    I've never been to Japan so I don't know anything, but my vague impression is that their standard of living is slowly rising due to accumulation of nice things over time.

    One of the unspoken costs of living in the diverse west, is that no one feels the desire to plant any trees for the next generation, or any responsibility towards leaving the place better off.

    Even if you ask someone that doesn’t think about politics at all about life, they will typically say things like “Why would I want to bring children into this effed up world?” and we all know what they mean when they say “effed up” because, consciously or unconsciously, they understand that diversity means everything they work hard to build will simply be divvied up by the “new” americans as soon as they are gone. It’s hard to find the motivation to make your world beautiful or leave something for the next generation when you can’t even afford grandchildren, or insure english will even be spoken in your neighborhood fifteen years from now.

    • Agree: Autochthon
  12. @Daniel H
    How relevant to your recent posts.

    https://newrepublic.com/article/143019/one-meal-day-lake-chad-vanishes-seven-million-people-starvation

    Now a word about how the soaring population growth of Niger, Nigeria, Chad and Cameroon might be contributing to the depletion of this shallow lake. But of course, Africans have no agency.

    This is my favourite caption from the corny photographs:

    A bowl of peanuts, ground into an oily paste used to flavor bland food. Cameroonian women grind the nuts and mix the paste with their bare hands, leaving it to dry in the midday sun.

    In a place with inadequate water (the story’s headline is the desiccation of a lake!) the thing to do is leave peanut oil out in the baking sun until all its moisture has evaporated, then eat it – you know, so you don’t accidentally ingest any of the water the peanuts contained.

    No agency, indeed.

    • Replies: @Hippopotamusdrome


    A bowl of peanuts, ground into an oily paste used to flavor bland food. Cameroonian women grind the nuts and mix the paste with their bare hands

     

    So it's true. Peanut butter is a black invention.
  13. @spandrell
    That's exactly it. The western press speaks to plutocrats, and Japan indeed is a horrible place to invest.

    That said, Japanese wages remain stagnant, purchasing power is down due to raising withholding taxes to pay for Medicare, so Japanese living standards aren't exactly rising.

    The Japanese participate in Medicare?! Holy moly, with their disproportionately aged population, no wonder such entitlements have become unsustainable Pyramid schemes. Then again, as long as we are taxing them to pay for it, we are getting a better deal than we do from all the freeloading, aged relations imported by invading Hindoos and Chinamen who never even contribute to the system….

  14. @spandrell
    That's exactly it. The western press speaks to plutocrats, and Japan indeed is a horrible place to invest.

    That said, Japanese wages remain stagnant, purchasing power is down due to raising withholding taxes to pay for Medicare, so Japanese living standards aren't exactly rising.

    Actually, incomes in the UK have stagnated for the past 10 years at least.
    This despite unprecedented massive levels of immigration.
    In quite a few years UK GDP per capita actually declined due to population growth outstripping economic growth.

    • Replies: @Art Deco
    Actually, incomes in the UK have stagnated for the past 10 years at least.
    This despite unprecedented massive levels of immigration. In quite a few years UK GDP per capita actually declined due to population growth outstripping economic growth.


    It declined in real terms (year-over-year) between 2007 and 2009. Not after that.
  15. @al-Gharaniq
    Wouldn't this have more to do with a declining/stagnating population growth due to birth rates rather than immigration policies per se?

    Sure, immigration does increase population growth and inflate birth rates, but absent that, this (intuitively) seems to be the result of a declining birth rates + smart housing policies. It seems far-fetched to tie immigration to this.

    Nonsense.

    The Japanese population is still around the highest it’s ever been.
    By simple arithmetic adding more people to the population by immigration can only mean more pressure on housing.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    It's not "simple arithmetic" though. It's economic growth that pays for things like housing, not "simple arithmetic." That's why people in the Dust Bowl lived in crummy shacks despite America in general, and the Dust Bowl in particular, at the time being much lower in population.
  16. As an American I have been indoctrinated to revere the constitution. In this case I say the post war Japanese pacifist constitution, that unlike the European powers, dismantled all imperial and military ambitions. Maybe Japan is constitutionally unable to invade the world, with the unexpected consequence they are unable to invite it.

    As to housing specifically, there is a cost associated with imperial ambition. It might be invisible or not taked about but there have to be consequences. The US military likes its international bases precisely because housing is such poor value in the US. I would rather be in Qatar, Korea, Okinawa, Norway than the US too.

  17. @Anonymous
    Of course, most Tokyoites inhabit multi-storey high-rise type buildings. Millions upon millions of them.
    - and scarcely a Grenfell Tower in sight.

    Of course, most Tokyoites inhabit multi-storey high-rise type buildings. Millions upon millions of them.
    – and scarcely a Grenfell Tower in sight.

    Actually, most of Tokyo is relatively low rise, because Tokyo is built on the loose foundation of a volcanic rubble bowl, which accounts for almost daily earthquakes, many of which are perceptible. Skyscrapers are very expensive to build, because of the hydraulic cushioning/counterweighted suspension foundations needed.

    When I lived there, I lived in a 9 storey apartment building, which was considered to be high. There have been a couple of luxury high end high-rise apartment building built in the last 15 years in the Ark Hills development, but they are atypical. 3-5 storeys is the norm.

    Contrary to outside impressions, Tokyo is built up, but feels mostly open, and the central several square miles of Tokyo are a very much a walker’s city. It is far from being an oppressive rabbit’s warren.

  18. I’ve never been to Japan, but I watched a couple of Godzilla movies, including the new one with Cranston and Binoche, so that qualifies me to talk about Japanese demography.

    The Japanese ain’t gonna go all kinds of multicultural like the mentally deranged European Christian nations have done. The Japanese will start lopping heads before they listen to any shysters trying to impose any kind of racial guilt or bullshit about immigrants paying for pensions.

    In 2010 and 2011 the evil politicians in Europe made a big deal about how multiculturalism was a failure:

    Angela Merkel: German multiculturalism has ‘utterly failed’ https://www.theguardian.com/world/2010/oct/17/angela-merkel-german-multiculturalism-failed?CMP=share_btn_tw

    Nicolas Sarkozy joins the David Cameron and Angela Merkel view that multiculturalism has failed http://dailym.ai/gaa8M5 via @MailOnline

    The evil politicians in Europe were trying to lull their people into a false sense of security before they let the mass immigration floodgates open. That was their plan the whole time.

    The Japanese watched the antics involving the fake renunciation of multiculturalism and they determined not to listen to any European Christians or Whites ever again on multiculturalism and mass immigration. The New York Times has been pushing the mass immigration and multiculturalism crud on the Japanese for a long time.

    The Japanese reject nation-wrecking mass immigration and multicultural mayhem. Voters in European Christian nations are starting to do the same.

  19. @Steve Sailer
    I've never been to Japan so I don't know anything, but my vague impression is that their standard of living is slowly rising due to accumulation of nice things over time.

    I’ve never been to Japan so I don’t know anything, but my vague impression is that their standard of living is slowly rising due to accumulation of nice things over time.

    Median net worth in Japan is about $120,000. That in the US is about $45,000.

    Their economy isn’t growing, but they are stuck at a very high first world level of personal income, and have a positive savings rate, high job security and protections, and very tightly controlled immigration and they feel a whole lot richer.

    What’s not to like?

    • Replies: @Alec Leamas

    What’s not to like?
     
    Yea, but how are the street tacos?
    , @reiner Tor

    What’s not to like?
     
    The fact that we in the West won't be able to enjoy the same, that's not to like.
    , @res
    It is interesting to compare the median/mean net wealth for different countries. From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_wealth_per_adult
    Japan $110k/$217k
    US $45k/$301k
    That says a great deal. Then there is the debt also shown (not counted in wealth IIUC?) in that table. I wonder how that is distributed among the above/below median wealth group?

    I would not have guessed Australia had the highest median wealth in the OECD at $220k.
  20. @White Guy In Japan
    Oh, we get some vibrancy here in Japan. Just enough to know we don't want anymore.
    http://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2015/10/25/national/seven-injured-clashes-outside-turkish-embassy/

    Or search for Iranian murders in Nagoya.

    Or those two muslim refugees who, after arrival, soon raped some poor woman in a public convenience. It’s the “Hello, nice to meet you” of Islam.

    http://www.tokyoreporter.com/2016/02/22/tokyo-cops-arrest-turkish-asylum-seekers-in-gang-rape-of-woman/

  21. @PiltdownMan

    I’ve never been to Japan so I don’t know anything, but my vague impression is that their standard of living is slowly rising due to accumulation of nice things over time.
     
    Median net worth in Japan is about $120,000. That in the US is about $45,000.

    Their economy isn't growing, but they are stuck at a very high first world level of personal income, and have a positive savings rate, high job security and protections, and very tightly controlled immigration and they feel a whole lot richer.

    What's not to like?

    What’s not to like?

    Yea, but how are the street tacos?

    • LOL: PiltdownMan
    • Replies: @Njguy73


    What’s not to like?
     
    Yea, but how are the street tacos?
     
    If you wish to imagine the future, picture a face being fed street tacos, kale smoothies, and craft beer, then being stomped by a boot...forever.
    , @Anonym
    Yea, but how are the street tacos?

    Their octopus is delicious.
    , @Daniel Chieh
    Mexican food in Japan is indeed horrific from what I've heard. While they've duplicated ethnic food from other cultures with great success, there's just not that much interest in Mexican food for some reason.
    , @Buck Turgidson
    So i suppose this means that japan has no food trucks. No food trucks!!! Where do urban hipster douchbag wusses eat lunch over there?
  22. @Alec Leamas

    What’s not to like?
     
    Yea, but how are the street tacos?

    What’s not to like?

    Yea, but how are the street tacos?

    If you wish to imagine the future, picture a face being fed street tacos, kale smoothies, and craft beer, then being stomped by a boot…forever.

  23. That 2017 square footage number of 1400 sq. ft. in Metropolitan Tokyo is very impressive when compared with average US home sizes over the decades, computed over all locations, rural and urban, in our very spacious country. Homes in America average about 1400 sq. ft in 1950. I can’t link to the Census Bureau pdf table, for some reason, but it confirms the chart below, by Trulia’s chief economist.

  24. @al-Gharaniq
    Wouldn't this have more to do with a declining/stagnating population growth due to birth rates rather than immigration policies per se?

    Sure, immigration does increase population growth and inflate birth rates, but absent that, this (intuitively) seems to be the result of a declining birth rates + smart housing policies. It seems far-fetched to tie immigration to this.

    Steve’s graph is living space per capita in Tokyo, and the population of Tokyo proper (23 wards) is NOT declining:
    http://population.city/japan/tokyo/

    In fact it was during the bubble years the population declined, and after the bubble burst and the new national zoning laws took effect the population of Tokyo has increased, living space per capita has increased, and prices have stabilized.
    This has nothing to do with immigration and everything to do with smart zoning laws, especially by-right building:

    http://urbankchoze.blogspot.com/2014/04/japanese-zoning.html

  25. A stable economy is a nightmare for Wall St. – and other kinds of speculators. The more the WSJ complains about Japan, the better for the Japanese.

    For my humble mind it is hardly believable, that such simple cause and effect phenomenons are not well understood – and communicated worldwide. And not taught in schools etc.

    • Replies: @Joe Schmoe

    And not taught in schools etc.
     
    The powerful people control what is taught in schools.
    Selling more toilet paper is better, Johnny.
    , @PiltdownMan
    A stable economy is a nightmare for Wall St. – and other kinds of speculators. The more the WSJ complains about Japan, the better for the Japanese.

    For my humble mind it is hardly believable, that such simple cause and effect phenomenons are not well understood – and communicated worldwide. And not taught in schools etc.

    Surely the fault lies in the modern economics profession, which bangs the drum of constant economic growth incessantly although it has the analytical tools to specify and manage steady state policy options or even decreasing population scenarios in great detail. People like Larry Summers and Paul Krugman are more than up to the task, intellectually, but they never go there. The last prominent economist to contemplate a steady state with modern high productivity as a thought experiment was Keynes.

    , @Art Deco
    They've had a 'stable economy' because

    (1) for 15 years their banks were hobbled by an overhang of nonperforming loans. In our recent unpleasantness here, about 7.4% of the loan portfolio of American commercial banks was delinquent at the peak of their trouble (which occurred about 3 years after the asset bubble began to deflate). Japan was looking at collective delinquency rates around 17% eight years after their asset bubble had begun to deflate.


    (2) Their workforce is aging, and entering cohorts are smaller than retiring cohorts.
    , @LondonBob
    Japs recently bought the Financial Times so they won't be saying much at all about Japan, except the odd nice thing now and then.
    , @Opinionator
    Uh, what cause and effect phenomenon are you referring to?
  26. @Alec Leamas

    What’s not to like?
     
    Yea, but how are the street tacos?

    Yea, but how are the street tacos?

    Their octopus is delicious.

  27. Of course, smaller homes are also easier for elderly people to maintain, and that lessens the need to import cheap illegal immigrant household help too…

    This is anecdotal, but elderly Japanese certainly seem leaner and more spry to me than their Western counterparts, so I’m sure it makes it easier for their seniors to go it alone in old age.

    Being leaner and fitter in old age certainly lessens the need for physical assistance, whether in the form of family, state provided caregivers, or immigrant household help.

  28. @Dieter Kief
    A stable economy is a nightmare for Wall St. - and other kinds of speculators. The more the WSJ complains about Japan, the better for the Japanese.

    For my humble mind it is hardly believable, that such simple cause and effect phenomenons are not well understood - and communicated worldwide. And not taught in schools etc.

    And not taught in schools etc.

    The powerful people control what is taught in schools.
    Selling more toilet paper is better, Johnny.

  29. @Dieter Kief
    A stable economy is a nightmare for Wall St. - and other kinds of speculators. The more the WSJ complains about Japan, the better for the Japanese.

    For my humble mind it is hardly believable, that such simple cause and effect phenomenons are not well understood - and communicated worldwide. And not taught in schools etc.

    A stable economy is a nightmare for Wall St. – and other kinds of speculators. The more the WSJ complains about Japan, the better for the Japanese.

    For my humble mind it is hardly believable, that such simple cause and effect phenomenons are not well understood – and communicated worldwide. And not taught in schools etc.

    Surely the fault lies in the modern economics profession, which bangs the drum of constant economic growth incessantly although it has the analytical tools to specify and manage steady state policy options or even decreasing population scenarios in great detail. People like Larry Summers and Paul Krugman are more than up to the task, intellectually, but they never go there. The last prominent economist to contemplate a steady state with modern high productivity as a thought experiment was Keynes.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
    This to me, is really a convergence with the thinking on Zerohedge*. That's what those guys have been saying a long time. To remain on topic with your comment, specifically, Piltdown, I don't think any of these economists are particularly bright people, though I'll make an exception for your Adam Smiths, Rothbards, and Freedmans.

    However, because the American economy has been gutted, as far as manufacturing jobs go, the FIRE economy, Finance, Insurance, Real Estate (in my opinion, should be: Finance, Insurance, Real estate, Education) is the vehicle of "expansion". By expansion, that DOES NOT MEAN increase in quality of life for Americans. It just means increase in GDP, which is really just a concern to the economists (BTW, one of multiple reasons inflation numbers are way understated by the Feral Gov't is that GDP increases would probably all be wiped out, possible long in the red, were the actual numbers included in GDP calculations).

    Back to the FIRE economy, all that stuff is not wealth creating. It is just shifting money around, and the "capitalist" elites in those industries make money from transactions, the churning around of money. White Flight is BAD, you say (cause you took losses on your houses, had to move the family twice, drive for 2 hours/day)? NO, it's GOOD for real estate agents and lawyers, and mortgage bankers, and increase in GDP! A decade interest rates forced to within ε of 0 is BAD, you say (cause your 78 y/0 Mom can't make it off SS and interest off of $300,000 grand they had saved)? NO, it's GOOD, cause that forces individuals and pension funds into the stock market where the finance guys can get their cut of every transaction, and it's the only way to make decent returns, forget the risk! Huge school loans are BAD, you say (cause your kid is still working the same job at Starbucks, but now with a mortgage-sized $80,000 loan due from his 4 years of good times, studying Art History)? NO, it's GOOD, cause the University has a brand new gym, has expanded the campus are by 2 x in 2 decades and increases the number of "seats" by 1000 people each year - the Admins. especially are livin' large, and hiring new people every week to make new university policies!

    Anyway, I think this is where we unz people have quite a bit in common with the zerohedge types. This crap can't go on, and won't go on. The Globalists think it will, or at least until they are dead and gone or in their bug-out locales, so they want to keep the GDPs officially increasing, sales of toilet paper and other goods must keep increasing with more real estate deals and company mergers. People just slowly increasing their wealth at the family level, living a productive and quiet life, and having 2 kids in a stable non-diverse population is TOTALLY UNACCEPTABLE!

    As to whether the economists can or do understand this, that is not their world. They aspire to the big money finance or corporate world, and the quality of life of the populations of the world does not enter into their mathematical models, such as they are.


    * Full disclosure: I am not associated with the site, but I used to read it (esp. the comments) a whole lot, to the point of seriously affecting my work.

    , @Dieter Kief
    Krugman seems to be absorbed by the bubble-thinking of the functional elite (=Davos). This state of mind threatens your way of thinking up to the point, where your thoughts look plain dumb from the perspective of ordinary people.
    Genius Friedman kinda grapped a hold of this dynamic recently by stating, that "normal is over" in the NYT.
    Just like Krugman, he has the solution for everybody: Just become extraordinarily smart! - The simple question they can't answer: What happens to the outsmarted?
  30. Japan’s GDP per capita growth has been around 0.63% annual for the past 25 years – about when their stock and real estate bubble popped.

    That compares to ~1.5% for the U.S. and ~1.0% for Germany. However, Japan continues to have a higher GDP per capita than Germany so some of that sluggishness may be been due to starting a higher level. Also, over the past decade, Japanese GDP per capita growth has been at least as good as the U.S.

    Main point is that Steve is right. Japan’s economy is working just fine for the Japanese people, which, you know, should be the point of an economy, i.e. an economy should serve its people, not the other way around. Wall Street and and federal government want as much aggregate GDP growth as possible without caring so much about GDP per capita growth.

    I sometimes wonder if Marx may be been right about capitalism sewing the seeds of its own destruction. The Japanese seemed to have harnished this tool rather than bowing before it.

    • Replies: @Erik Sieven
    "However, Japan continues to have a higher GDP per capita than Germany"
    GDP per capita is higher in Germany than in Japan, and that despite immigration which all in all much likely had a negative effect on GDP per capita in Germany
    , @Undocumented Shopper

    Japan’s GDP per capita growth has been around 0.63% annual for the past 25 years – about when their stock and real estate bubble popped.

    That compares to ~1.5% for the U.S. and ~1.0% for Germany. However, Japan continues to have a higher GDP per capita than Germany so some of that sluggishness may be been due to starting a higher level. Also, over the past decade, Japanese GDP per capita growth has been at least as good as the U.S.
     
    And perhaps most importantly, GDP is only an approximate measure of living standards. For example, in some places in the United States, private schools and gated communities are a necessity. Both of them increase GDP while lowering living standards.

    How awful of the Japanese to have good public schools everywhere!
  31. Steve,
    I appreciate your fighting the good fight on every front online, but I doubt there is much connection between livable housing and immigration.

    (1) Gains in living space are probably not distributed very evenly as it is. If there had been a lot more immigration, we would probably see a situation where immigrants were crammed together in smaller places. Gains would be continuing to be made by the native populace despite the “average floor space per person” not rising as much.

    (2) The gains are being made despite the rising population of Tokyo. There’s nothing special about the situation. They’re just building higher and higher. When yet more people move to Tokyo and demand yet more floor space, they’ll build higher yet. Yawn.

    (3) The statistics as a reflection of quality of life may be deceptive. For example, there is a trend in Japan toward using western-style beds in place of traditional futon mattresses. Futons can be folded up and put away, allowing the room you sleep in to be multi-use. Beds cannot, necessitating extra floor space without any real gain in effective living space. Similarly with computer desks, couches, etc–just treading water really.

    (4) This discussion detracts from the very much more interesting issues about Japanese housing–for example, how can people live in such close proximity without constantly being at each other’s throats? You can write lots of “it’s going to be a hot summer in Chicago” posts, but you’ll never write a “it’s going to be a hot summer in Tokyo” post. Why? I think we all know.

    • Agree: Daniel Chieh
    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    The Japanese economy has significant challenges, but I don't think its as simple as to boil it down to immigration or lack of it thereof. I do think that the culture which, to its credit, can resist foreign pressure but can also behave in ways that seem to be completely at odds with Western rule of law and notions of fairness.

    Foreign capital often does seem unsafe, subject to various practices that essentially deny foreigners much control of their money once invested. And while I can see why the iSteve commentators would like that, it does have consequences when foreigners choose not to invest the country, and it negatively impacts the wage structure and dynamics.

    Similar attitudes of collusion are everywhere, such as travel agencies that raise prices in unison for Golden Week, while companies refuse to give time off except for Golden Week. This kind of lacking competition also makes them incapable of dealing with countries like China and force them to cede all low-margin manufacturing to them. Perhaps they're refusing to race to the bottom, but in a way, its a kind of corruption and against a world of raw capitalism, something's gotta give.

    There's a price to pay for being insular. It might be worth it, but it does exist.

  32. Here in America, we constantly hear about how awful the Japanese economy is, but that’s largely because it hasn’t done much of anything for Wall Street since the giant Bubble popped around 1990. But, the Japanese economy has been fairly successful for the Japanese.

    No, you hear about troubles in the Japanese economy because domestic product per capita in Japan (calculated according to purchasing power parity) went from 83% of that of the United States in 1990 to 72% of that of the United States in 2014. When your mean annual improvement in per capita income falls below 1% for an entire generation, people tend to think you have a rather nondynamic economy.

    Overall, Japan remains an affluent country with a well lubricated labor market. They are, however, facing a demographic crisis due to 40-odd years of well-below-replacement fertility.

    • Replies: @reiner Tor

    domestic product per capita in Japan (calculated according to purchasing power parity) went from 83% of that of the United States in 1990 to 72% of that of the United States in 2014
     
    But per capita comparisons are not very apt when the share of working age population is dropping quickly in Japan. Their per worker GDP largely kept its ground. If you take into account the growing inequality in the US, you might recognize that the median Japanese worker's position has not deteriorated at all compared to the median US worker. And this in spite of a number of adverse factors, for example the dramatic deterioration of Japan's terms of trade in the first decade of the century (commodity prices).
    , @Anonymous
    Perhaps.

    But just what and which section of the American population captured *all* of that GDP increase?

    As I never tire to point out median US wages, adjusted for inflation, are no higher now than in 1972. 1972 is an awfully long time ago now.
    , @peterike

    They are, however, facing a demographic crisis due to 40-odd years of well-below-replacement fertility

     

    There is no "demographic crisis." This is a made up nothing sprung from the imaginations of economists creating propaganda for global oligarchs. In a highly evolved nation like Japan, a diminishing population is in EVERY way a good thing.
    , @Opinionator
    A demographic "crisis"? Please define.
  33. But American house sizes have more than doubled in that same time frame. I don’t have any stats on Lagos but I wouldn’t be surprised if house sizes aren’t any worse than 50 years ago.

    White people are more than welcome to claim the credit, or the blame, for this miracle of modernity — ever increasing number of people housed in ever increasing comfort. 🙂

    Having said that, third world city dwellers are no more enamoured of ever-increasing populations and claustrophobic crowding than Americans or Europeans. And controlling urban crowding doesn’t seem to have any direct relation to overall population growth or immigration at all.

    • Agree: Triumph104
    • Replies: @Hippopotamusdrome

    But American house sizes have more than doubled in that same time frame.... White people are more than welcome to claim the credit, or the blame, for this miracle of modernity — ever increasing number of people housed in ever increasing comfort.

     

    Bigger houses cost more. We need our houses to cost more so minorities can't afford them so we can live in a "nice neighborhood".

    Historical Census of Housing Tables
    Home Values

    Adjusted to 2000 dollars
    California 1940: $36,700
    California 2000: $211,500

    A thrifty person could, today, move in to a $36,700 value house, but it would be in a "bad neighborhood".

    A thrifty person in Japan could move in to a $36,700 house and not be in Detroit.

  34. @PiltdownMan

    I’ve never been to Japan so I don’t know anything, but my vague impression is that their standard of living is slowly rising due to accumulation of nice things over time.
     
    Median net worth in Japan is about $120,000. That in the US is about $45,000.

    Their economy isn't growing, but they are stuck at a very high first world level of personal income, and have a positive savings rate, high job security and protections, and very tightly controlled immigration and they feel a whole lot richer.

    What's not to like?

    What’s not to like?

    The fact that we in the West won’t be able to enjoy the same, that’s not to like.

    • Replies: @bored identity
    "What's not to like?"

    Maybe this - mostly ignored by media - Latest Treacherous SCOTUS 9-0 Rulling that will potentially allow considerate number of ISIS foot soldiers & sympathizers to settle in America without a fear of ever being prosecuted for bluntly lying on their refugee/ immigration applications.:

    https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2017-06-22/a-win-for-immigrants-and-a-win-for-liars *

    *
    "This column does not necessarily reflect the opinion of the editorial board or Bloomberg LP and its owners."

    No sh!t!


    ------------------------------------------------------------

    Material Girl Elena's Paradox:



    Her (Kagan's) example was the statement that “John obtained that painting illegally.”

    The sentence only makes sense, she said, if John used illegal means such as theft to obtain the painting.

    In contrast, she continued, the sentence “John obtained that painting illegally, but his unlawful acts did not play any role in his obtaining it” was “nonsense” or “a riddle.”




    Moar of Supreme Fat Wisdom from Afroyim's Advocate:



    Justice Elena Kagan then went next.

    “I am a little bit horrified to know that every time I lie about my weight, it has those kinds of consequences,” she told Parker (assistant solicitor general representing the federal government).

    “Only under oath,” he replied.

    https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/05/supreme-court-citizenship-maslenjak/525000/

     

    -----------------------------------------------------------


    The Supreme Interpreters of the
    Laws of United Khaganates of Weimerica are nothing but a wiggling worms on a slowly decaying corpse of ethno-tribal interests.

    Instead of Justices with a minimum of human and professional integrity, we ended with a cabal of Talmudic bone readers.
     
  35. @Dieter Kief
    A stable economy is a nightmare for Wall St. - and other kinds of speculators. The more the WSJ complains about Japan, the better for the Japanese.

    For my humble mind it is hardly believable, that such simple cause and effect phenomenons are not well understood - and communicated worldwide. And not taught in schools etc.

    They’ve had a ‘stable economy’ because

    (1) for 15 years their banks were hobbled by an overhang of nonperforming loans. In our recent unpleasantness here, about 7.4% of the loan portfolio of American commercial banks was delinquent at the peak of their trouble (which occurred about 3 years after the asset bubble began to deflate). Japan was looking at collective delinquency rates around 17% eight years after their asset bubble had begun to deflate.

    (2) Their workforce is aging, and entering cohorts are smaller than retiring cohorts.

    • Replies: @The True and Original David
    So they don't pay their debt$, and they keep their labor market tight.

    The dirty yellow goyim!
  36. “People like Larry Summers and Paul Krugman are more than up to the task, intellectually, but they never go there”

    Interestingly, Krugman has kinda gone there in another context — steady state or decreasing energy usage. He explains why decreasing energy usage doesn’t imply decreasing living standards.

    And I doubt Krugman has ever implied that ever-increasing populations and ever growing economies are the highest good. He’s explicitly defended European countries choosing lower per-capita incomes for longer vacations.

    Come to think of it, surely there must be smart Japanese economists working out the economics of decreasing populations? I doubt it’s a highly taboo topic — plenty of countries will have to deal with that problem regardless of immigration policy.

    • Replies: @utu
    Come to think of it, surely there must be smart Japanese economists working out the economics of decreasing populations?

    I think they talk about it openly over there. The push into all kinds of robotics partly comes from being aware of their demographics.
  37. 1. Tokyo prefecture is not the country as a whole.

    2. About 55% of the improvement occurred before the asset-price collapse, during years when the Japanese economy was highly dynamic.

    3. Some portion of the improvement is attributable to declining household sizes due to low fertility.

    4. The pace of improvement is derived in part from a cultural preference in Japan which induces some deadweight loss: housing is treated more as a consumer durable than as a capital investment, and razing and rebuilding is done when refurbishing would be done in North America.

    This is a good thing for Tokyo residents, but I suspect the graph overstates matters.

  38. Once the world got its third billion person or so, more population stopped becoming an asset to nations and started becoming a hinderance. So far, only the elites in East Asian countries seem to have grasped that.

  39. @Art Deco
    Here in America, we constantly hear about how awful the Japanese economy is, but that’s largely because it hasn’t done much of anything for Wall Street since the giant Bubble popped around 1990. But, the Japanese economy has been fairly successful for the Japanese.

    No, you hear about troubles in the Japanese economy because domestic product per capita in Japan (calculated according to purchasing power parity) went from 83% of that of the United States in 1990 to 72% of that of the United States in 2014. When your mean annual improvement in per capita income falls below 1% for an entire generation, people tend to think you have a rather nondynamic economy.

    Overall, Japan remains an affluent country with a well lubricated labor market. They are, however, facing a demographic crisis due to 40-odd years of well-below-replacement fertility.

    domestic product per capita in Japan (calculated according to purchasing power parity) went from 83% of that of the United States in 1990 to 72% of that of the United States in 2014

    But per capita comparisons are not very apt when the share of working age population is dropping quickly in Japan. Their per worker GDP largely kept its ground. If you take into account the growing inequality in the US, you might recognize that the median Japanese worker’s position has not deteriorated at all compared to the median US worker. And this in spite of a number of adverse factors, for example the dramatic deterioration of Japan’s terms of trade in the first decade of the century (commodity prices).

    • Replies: @Johann Ricke

    Their per worker GDP largely kept its ground.
     
    Japan's number went from 77% of the US number in 1991, 64% in 2016. So yes, Japan's growth has, in fact, been anemic.

    The real issue is that its productive population drop has taken nominal GDP per capita from its peak of 151% of the US number in 1995, to 68% of that number, as of 2016. That gives a much better idea of the impact of smaller numbers of young people entering the workforce on fiscal solvency. This is why Japan has kept raising tax rates while ballooning its government debt - its welfare state expenditures cannot be funded on the basis of the old tax rates, but even higher tax rates aren't slowing down the rate of debt accumulation. New taxpayers are shrinking in number, even as the ranks of pensioners reliant on welfare state promises for both income and medical care steadily increase.
  40. It is possible to buy a new home in Tokyo proper, not the largerTokyo Prefecture or Tokyo Metropolitan Area, for US$300,000.

  41. @Alec Leamas

    What’s not to like?
     
    Yea, but how are the street tacos?

    Mexican food in Japan is indeed horrific from what I’ve heard. While they’ve duplicated ethnic food from other cultures with great success, there’s just not that much interest in Mexican food for some reason.

    • Replies: @Chrisnonymous
    You heard right, and if you think the tacos are bad, just try the margaritas!
    , @peterike

    there’s just not that much interest in Mexican food for some reason.

     

    Because it's awful slop? When you have a culinary arts population that is fully capable of perfectly mimicking any cuisine on earth, why would you bother with one of the worst cuisines on earth? Basically, you have every European and every Asian cuisine to contend with first before you sink low enough to need to whip up some burritos.
    , @3g4me
    @41 Daniel Chieh: Maybe because Mexican food sucks? Spanish food, on the other hand, with Arab and Mediterranean influences, is a lovely blend of strong and subtle flavors not overwhelmed with beans, corn, and chiles.
  42. I think most economists agree that housing space is more determined by regulation than population size. Look at a population density map of the world, there is a lot of space out there, even in Japan. Immigration is awful because of crime and institutional decay,.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Most of Japan is mountainous and of no possible human use.
  43. @PiltdownMan
    A stable economy is a nightmare for Wall St. – and other kinds of speculators. The more the WSJ complains about Japan, the better for the Japanese.

    For my humble mind it is hardly believable, that such simple cause and effect phenomenons are not well understood – and communicated worldwide. And not taught in schools etc.

    Surely the fault lies in the modern economics profession, which bangs the drum of constant economic growth incessantly although it has the analytical tools to specify and manage steady state policy options or even decreasing population scenarios in great detail. People like Larry Summers and Paul Krugman are more than up to the task, intellectually, but they never go there. The last prominent economist to contemplate a steady state with modern high productivity as a thought experiment was Keynes.

    This to me, is really a convergence with the thinking on Zerohedge*. That’s what those guys have been saying a long time. To remain on topic with your comment, specifically, Piltdown, I don’t think any of these economists are particularly bright people, though I’ll make an exception for your Adam Smiths, Rothbards, and Freedmans.

    However, because the American economy has been gutted, as far as manufacturing jobs go, the FIRE economy, Finance, Insurance, Real Estate (in my opinion, should be: Finance, Insurance, Real estate, Education) is the vehicle of “expansion”. By expansion, that DOES NOT MEAN increase in quality of life for Americans. It just means increase in GDP, which is really just a concern to the economists (BTW, one of multiple reasons inflation numbers are way understated by the Feral Gov’t is that GDP increases would probably all be wiped out, possible long in the red, were the actual numbers included in GDP calculations).

    Back to the FIRE economy, all that stuff is not wealth creating. It is just shifting money around, and the “capitalist” elites in those industries make money from transactions, the churning around of money. White Flight is BAD, you say (cause you took losses on your houses, had to move the family twice, drive for 2 hours/day)? NO, it’s GOOD for real estate agents and lawyers, and mortgage bankers, and increase in GDP! A decade interest rates forced to within ε of 0 is BAD, you say (cause your 78 y/0 Mom can’t make it off SS and interest off of $300,000 grand they had saved)? NO, it’s GOOD, cause that forces individuals and pension funds into the stock market where the finance guys can get their cut of every transaction, and it’s the only way to make decent returns, forget the risk! Huge school loans are BAD, you say (cause your kid is still working the same job at Starbucks, but now with a mortgage-sized $80,000 loan due from his 4 years of good times, studying Art History)? NO, it’s GOOD, cause the University has a brand new gym, has expanded the campus are by 2 x in 2 decades and increases the number of “seats” by 1000 people each year – the Admins. especially are livin’ large, and hiring new people every week to make new university policies!

    Anyway, I think this is where we unz people have quite a bit in common with the zerohedge types. This crap can’t go on, and won’t go on. The Globalists think it will, or at least until they are dead and gone or in their bug-out locales, so they want to keep the GDPs officially increasing, sales of toilet paper and other goods must keep increasing with more real estate deals and company mergers. People just slowly increasing their wealth at the family level, living a productive and quiet life, and having 2 kids in a stable non-diverse population is TOTALLY UNACCEPTABLE!

    As to whether the economists can or do understand this, that is not their world. They aspire to the big money finance or corporate world, and the quality of life of the populations of the world does not enter into their mathematical models, such as they are.

    * Full disclosure: I am not associated with the site, but I used to read it (esp. the comments) a whole lot, to the point of seriously affecting my work.

    • Agree: Dieter Kief
    • Replies: @jim jones
    Marginal Revolution is the perfect example of Economists thinking, do some data mining and then announce that so and so increases inequality and should be banned.
  44. @reiner Tor

    domestic product per capita in Japan (calculated according to purchasing power parity) went from 83% of that of the United States in 1990 to 72% of that of the United States in 2014
     
    But per capita comparisons are not very apt when the share of working age population is dropping quickly in Japan. Their per worker GDP largely kept its ground. If you take into account the growing inequality in the US, you might recognize that the median Japanese worker's position has not deteriorated at all compared to the median US worker. And this in spite of a number of adverse factors, for example the dramatic deterioration of Japan's terms of trade in the first decade of the century (commodity prices).

    Their per worker GDP largely kept its ground.

    Japan’s number went from 77% of the US number in 1991, 64% in 2016. So yes, Japan’s growth has, in fact, been anemic.

    The real issue is that its productive population drop has taken nominal GDP per capita from its peak of 151% of the US number in 1995, to 68% of that number, as of 2016. That gives a much better idea of the impact of smaller numbers of young people entering the workforce on fiscal solvency. This is why Japan has kept raising tax rates while ballooning its government debt – its welfare state expenditures cannot be funded on the basis of the old tax rates, but even higher tax rates aren’t slowing down the rate of debt accumulation. New taxpayers are shrinking in number, even as the ranks of pensioners reliant on welfare state promises for both income and medical care steadily increase.

    • Replies: @Citizen of a Silly Country
    True. Japan is facing a number of very difficult demographic/fiscal/economic problems.

    But, at the end of the day or should I say at the end of the century, Japan will still be Japanese. No matter the difficulties they face, they are simply economic in nature and will pass. Their problems are nowhere near existential. They are bumps in the road in the long history of the Japanese people.

    OTOH, Europeans and their diaspora in the West are rapidly losing our homelands to often violent, tribal invaders. We literally could cease to exist as a people in a century or two. At the very least, our descendants face trying to survive in a Brazil-like world where violence and poverty are the norm for the vast majority of people.

    In other words, Japan's problems are a joke compared to what we face.
    , @YetAnotherAnon
    "The real issue is that its productive population drop has taken nominal GDP per capita from its peak of 151% of the US number in 1995, to 68% of that number, as of 2016."

    Eamonn Fingleton of this parish has argued (in Forbes or the WSJ, I forget) that the Japanese are deliberately understating their GDP, something a Western globalist pol would find inexplicable.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/08/opinion/sunday/the-true-story-of-japans-economic-success.html

    Even Paul Krugman is a convert - quote from 2012

    "What we thought was that Japan was a cautionary tale. It has turned into Japan as almost a role model. They never had as big a slump as we have had. They managed to have growing per capita income through most of what we call their 'lost decade'. My running joke is that the group of us who were worried about Japan a dozen years ago ought to go to Tokyo and apologise to the emperor. We've done worse than they ever did. When people ask: might we become Japan? I say: I wish we could become Japan."
     
    https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2012/05/krugman-fingleton-and-japan/257716/
    , @Opinionator
    Japan’s number went from 77% of the US number in 1991, 64% in 2016. So yes, Japan’s growth has, in fact, been anemic.

    Only if you define "anemic" as anything less than that posted by the United States between 1991 and 2016. Absurd.

    , @Random Dude on the Internet
    How much has the US's growth been wrapped up in financial instruments that are out of the reach of the typical American citizen? How much growth is wrapped up in high priced residential areas so Chinese or large banks can pay cash and rent them out, making home ownership that much more difficult for a young family to start out in by driving up prices?

    There's more to success and progress than GDP growth. Japan has problems but Japan remains Japan. We're turning into North Brazil just because we demand 2% GDP growth or more, regardless of what the country turns into.
    , @Escher
    GDP can and is often fudged, and the metrics do not correlate well to quality of life for the average citizen.
  45. You never hear about the high quality of life in Japan because they succeed by bucking the dominant western economic paradigm — more more more, of everything, always.

    They must really tick off the ‘economist’ Steve Moore (neocon/lib WSJ type whom the media trots out to bloviate on way too many things), and the ‘demographer’ William Frey who will tell you that a country will go hell w/out rapid population growth and immigration (Japan aint following the narrative), and that immigration and high population growth are signs of strength (as in economic powerhouses like Niger and Nigeria). Neither of these weather vane morons makes a damn bit of sense and their story lines are all over the place. Needless to say I cannot stand them. I’ll bet each of them has a huge mansion and yard and do not house a single immigrant on the premises or even allow them on the grounds.

    Japan apparently doesn’t care much about toilet paper sales. Somehow they seem to be making it though.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
    Hey, Mr. Turdgidson, looks like we're on the same roll page, with the toilet paper sales meme. You can bill me for using your example. I'll pay you in toilet paper futures dollars.
  46. @al-Gharaniq
    Wouldn't this have more to do with a declining/stagnating population growth due to birth rates rather than immigration policies per se?

    Sure, immigration does increase population growth and inflate birth rates, but absent that, this (intuitively) seems to be the result of a declining birth rates + smart housing policies. It seems far-fetched to tie immigration to this.

    … this (intuitively) seems to be the result of a declining birth rates + smart housing policies. It seems far-fetched to tie immigration to this.

    OK, let me rephrase Steve’s point in another way. The better quality of life in Japan is tied to the lack of immigration.. Is it easier to understand this way around?

    Of course the birth rates are a factor and whatever statist housing policies, who knows about that part? The point is, whether the population in Japan had kept on increasing greatly as in the past to bring them to 250,000,000 people now, or fertility declined, as it has, yet massive immigration was implemented, bring the population to 250,000,000 people now, the same problems would result (plus, many addtional hardships from the curses blessings of diversity!)

  47. @Art Deco
    Here in America, we constantly hear about how awful the Japanese economy is, but that’s largely because it hasn’t done much of anything for Wall Street since the giant Bubble popped around 1990. But, the Japanese economy has been fairly successful for the Japanese.

    No, you hear about troubles in the Japanese economy because domestic product per capita in Japan (calculated according to purchasing power parity) went from 83% of that of the United States in 1990 to 72% of that of the United States in 2014. When your mean annual improvement in per capita income falls below 1% for an entire generation, people tend to think you have a rather nondynamic economy.

    Overall, Japan remains an affluent country with a well lubricated labor market. They are, however, facing a demographic crisis due to 40-odd years of well-below-replacement fertility.

    Perhaps.

    But just what and which section of the American population captured *all* of that GDP increase?

    As I never tire to point out median US wages, adjusted for inflation, are no higher now than in 1972. 1972 is an awfully long time ago now.

    • Replies: @Art Deco
    As I never tire to point out median US wages, adjusted for inflation, are no higher now than in 1972. 1972 is an awfully long time ago now.

    You're never tiring to point out something that's misleading.
  48. @Buck Turgidson
    You never hear about the high quality of life in Japan because they succeed by bucking the dominant western economic paradigm -- more more more, of everything, always.

    They must really tick off the 'economist' Steve Moore (neocon/lib WSJ type whom the media trots out to bloviate on way too many things), and the 'demographer' William Frey who will tell you that a country will go hell w/out rapid population growth and immigration (Japan aint following the narrative), and that immigration and high population growth are signs of strength (as in economic powerhouses like Niger and Nigeria). Neither of these weather vane morons makes a damn bit of sense and their story lines are all over the place. Needless to say I cannot stand them. I'll bet each of them has a huge mansion and yard and do not house a single immigrant on the premises or even allow them on the grounds.

    Japan apparently doesn't care much about toilet paper sales. Somehow they seem to be making it though.

    Hey, Mr. Turdgidson, looks like we’re on the same roll page, with the toilet paper sales meme. You can bill me for using your example. I’ll pay you in toilet paper futures dollars.

    • Replies: @Buck Turgidson
    AEN, I think we've both picked up on Steve's toilet paper sales metric. I like the diapers sales indicator, as well, for overall national economic strength and quality of life.

    The misspelling (maybe intentional?) of my last name in your message is kind of funny, giving the talk about toilet paper. Ha ha
  49. @Daniel Chieh
    Mexican food in Japan is indeed horrific from what I've heard. While they've duplicated ethnic food from other cultures with great success, there's just not that much interest in Mexican food for some reason.

    You heard right, and if you think the tacos are bad, just try the margaritas!

    • Replies: @MarkinLA
    They do make some damn fine whiskey though. Their Hibiki 30 was rated as one of the best whiskey's in the world.

    https://www.masterofmalt.com/whiskies/hibiki-30-year-old-suntory-whisky/
    , @Daniel Chieh
    I have a friend who used to teach English in Japan, and was apparently rejected by the parents of one prospective student for speaking "American English" as opposed to the presumably higher and more respectable Queen's English. The weird fetish for a semi-imaginary mythical High Western culture is amusing at times.
  50. @Jeremy Cooper
    I think most economists agree that housing space is more determined by regulation than population size. Look at a population density map of the world, there is a lot of space out there, even in Japan. Immigration is awful because of crime and institutional decay,.

    Most of Japan is mountainous and of no possible human use.

  51. @Vinay
    "People like Larry Summers and Paul Krugman are more than up to the task, intellectually, but they never go there"

    Interestingly, Krugman has kinda gone there in another context -- steady state or decreasing energy usage. He explains why decreasing energy usage doesn't imply decreasing living standards.

    And I doubt Krugman has ever implied that ever-increasing populations and ever growing economies are the highest good. He's explicitly defended European countries choosing lower per-capita incomes for longer vacations.

    Come to think of it, surely there must be smart Japanese economists working out the economics of decreasing populations? I doubt it's a highly taboo topic -- plenty of countries will have to deal with that problem regardless of immigration policy.

    Come to think of it, surely there must be smart Japanese economists working out the economics of decreasing populations?

    I think they talk about it openly over there. The push into all kinds of robotics partly comes from being aware of their demographics.

  52. One thing about Tokyo is that they are willing and able to landfill Tokyo Bay to create new residential and business districts.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Odaiba

    In US, NIMBY organizations crow about their abilities to deny people affordable housings.

    https://blog.savesfbay.org/2013/09/bay-or-river/

    Image if there are additional 320 squares miles of lands out from the former SF Bay. The land rush from the modern day Arkies/Orkies or just people who currently commuting from Central Valley can move closer to their work. The change in voters demo would end the career of politicians like Nancy Pelosi.

    • Replies: @Dave Pinsen
    Battery Park City in Manhattan (just west of the World Trade Center site/Freedom Tower) was built on landfill.
  53. @Johann Ricke

    Their per worker GDP largely kept its ground.
     
    Japan's number went from 77% of the US number in 1991, 64% in 2016. So yes, Japan's growth has, in fact, been anemic.

    The real issue is that its productive population drop has taken nominal GDP per capita from its peak of 151% of the US number in 1995, to 68% of that number, as of 2016. That gives a much better idea of the impact of smaller numbers of young people entering the workforce on fiscal solvency. This is why Japan has kept raising tax rates while ballooning its government debt - its welfare state expenditures cannot be funded on the basis of the old tax rates, but even higher tax rates aren't slowing down the rate of debt accumulation. New taxpayers are shrinking in number, even as the ranks of pensioners reliant on welfare state promises for both income and medical care steadily increase.

    True. Japan is facing a number of very difficult demographic/fiscal/economic problems.

    But, at the end of the day or should I say at the end of the century, Japan will still be Japanese. No matter the difficulties they face, they are simply economic in nature and will pass. Their problems are nowhere near existential. They are bumps in the road in the long history of the Japanese people.

    OTOH, Europeans and their diaspora in the West are rapidly losing our homelands to often violent, tribal invaders. We literally could cease to exist as a people in a century or two. At the very least, our descendants face trying to survive in a Brazil-like world where violence and poverty are the norm for the vast majority of people.

    In other words, Japan’s problems are a joke compared to what we face.

    • Replies: @Dieter Kief
    I agree.

    I recently spoke about Japan with a Swiss Historian, and when he ran out of arguments against Japanese politcs, he - in all earnestness - came up with: But don't they have the kids who stay at home with their parents and don't socialise except via the internet and don't got to work?

    Hikikomori?

    - Yeah, he answered: This Hikikomori and anime stuff and all that!

    Sigh.

    People don't seem to get the dimensions of the problems.

  54. @Kyle McKenna
    There's nothing wrong with Japan that can't be fixed with a few hundred million Africans, Chinese, Latinos, Indians, etc etc.

    I personally resent the notion that the Japanese--with one of the world's highest standards of living and a notoriously safe, clean, and civil society--shouldn't be required to join in the fun that the world's (previously) white nations are having.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demography_of_Imperial_Japan#Japanese_overseas_possessions

    Both of my parents were born with Japanese citizenship. They were among the 30-35 millions who lost Japanese citizenship after WWII. There is a lot of talk currently about restoring membership in the royal family as it’s currently very dire.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_succession_controversy#Current_situation

    So if Japan can almost offer to restore citizenship to those who lost it in 1945-52. With priority to people who had served in the Imperial Japanese Army like the heroic elite
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Takasago_Volunteers

  55. @reiner Tor

    What’s not to like?
     
    The fact that we in the West won't be able to enjoy the same, that's not to like.

    “What’s not to like?”

    Maybe this – mostly ignored by media – Latest Treacherous SCOTUS 9-0 Rulling that will potentially allow considerate number of ISIS foot soldiers & sympathizers to settle in America without a fear of ever being prosecuted for bluntly lying on their refugee/ immigration applications.:

    https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2017-06-22/a-win-for-immigrants-and-a-win-for-liars *

    *
    “This column does not necessarily reflect the opinion of the editorial board or Bloomberg LP and its owners.”

    No sh!t!

    ————————————————————

    Material Girl Elena’s Paradox:

    Her (Kagan’s) example was the statement that “John obtained that painting illegally.”

    The sentence only makes sense, she said, if John used illegal means such as theft to obtain the painting.

    In contrast, she continued, the sentence “John obtained that painting illegally, but his unlawful acts did not play any role in his obtaining it” was “nonsense” or “a riddle.”

    Moar of Supreme Fat Wisdom from Afroyim’s Advocate:

    Justice Elena Kagan then went next.

    “I am a little bit horrified to know that every time I lie about my weight, it has those kinds of consequences,” she told Parker (assistant solicitor general representing the federal government).

    “Only under oath,” he replied.

    https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/05/supreme-court-citizenship-maslenjak/525000/

    ———————————————————–

    The Supreme Interpreters of the
    Laws of United Khaganates of Weimerica are nothing but a wiggling worms on a slowly decaying corpse of ethno-tribal interests.

    Instead of Justices with a minimum of human and professional integrity, we ended with a cabal of Talmudic bone readers.

  56. Fox News, 06/26/17 – Trump travel ban: Supreme Court reinstates key parts of executive order

    http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/06/26/supreme-court-to-hear-trump-appeal-travel-ban-block.html

    In a victory for the Trump administration, the Supreme Court on Monday lifted key components of an injunction against President Trump’s proposed ban on travel from six majority-Muslim nations, reinstating much of the policy and promising to hear full arguments as early as this fall…

  57. @Achmed E. Newman
    This to me, is really a convergence with the thinking on Zerohedge*. That's what those guys have been saying a long time. To remain on topic with your comment, specifically, Piltdown, I don't think any of these economists are particularly bright people, though I'll make an exception for your Adam Smiths, Rothbards, and Freedmans.

    However, because the American economy has been gutted, as far as manufacturing jobs go, the FIRE economy, Finance, Insurance, Real Estate (in my opinion, should be: Finance, Insurance, Real estate, Education) is the vehicle of "expansion". By expansion, that DOES NOT MEAN increase in quality of life for Americans. It just means increase in GDP, which is really just a concern to the economists (BTW, one of multiple reasons inflation numbers are way understated by the Feral Gov't is that GDP increases would probably all be wiped out, possible long in the red, were the actual numbers included in GDP calculations).

    Back to the FIRE economy, all that stuff is not wealth creating. It is just shifting money around, and the "capitalist" elites in those industries make money from transactions, the churning around of money. White Flight is BAD, you say (cause you took losses on your houses, had to move the family twice, drive for 2 hours/day)? NO, it's GOOD for real estate agents and lawyers, and mortgage bankers, and increase in GDP! A decade interest rates forced to within ε of 0 is BAD, you say (cause your 78 y/0 Mom can't make it off SS and interest off of $300,000 grand they had saved)? NO, it's GOOD, cause that forces individuals and pension funds into the stock market where the finance guys can get their cut of every transaction, and it's the only way to make decent returns, forget the risk! Huge school loans are BAD, you say (cause your kid is still working the same job at Starbucks, but now with a mortgage-sized $80,000 loan due from his 4 years of good times, studying Art History)? NO, it's GOOD, cause the University has a brand new gym, has expanded the campus are by 2 x in 2 decades and increases the number of "seats" by 1000 people each year - the Admins. especially are livin' large, and hiring new people every week to make new university policies!

    Anyway, I think this is where we unz people have quite a bit in common with the zerohedge types. This crap can't go on, and won't go on. The Globalists think it will, or at least until they are dead and gone or in their bug-out locales, so they want to keep the GDPs officially increasing, sales of toilet paper and other goods must keep increasing with more real estate deals and company mergers. People just slowly increasing their wealth at the family level, living a productive and quiet life, and having 2 kids in a stable non-diverse population is TOTALLY UNACCEPTABLE!

    As to whether the economists can or do understand this, that is not their world. They aspire to the big money finance or corporate world, and the quality of life of the populations of the world does not enter into their mathematical models, such as they are.


    * Full disclosure: I am not associated with the site, but I used to read it (esp. the comments) a whole lot, to the point of seriously affecting my work.

    Marginal Revolution is the perfect example of Economists thinking, do some data mining and then announce that so and so increases inequality and should be banned.

  58. @Dieter Kief
    A stable economy is a nightmare for Wall St. - and other kinds of speculators. The more the WSJ complains about Japan, the better for the Japanese.

    For my humble mind it is hardly believable, that such simple cause and effect phenomenons are not well understood - and communicated worldwide. And not taught in schools etc.

    Japs recently bought the Financial Times so they won’t be saying much at all about Japan, except the odd nice thing now and then.

    • Replies: @Dieter Kief

    Japs recently bought the Financial Times so they won’t be saying much at all about Japan, except the odd nice thing now and then
     
    Smart move.
  59. @Chrisnonymous
    You heard right, and if you think the tacos are bad, just try the margaritas!

    They do make some damn fine whiskey though. Their Hibiki 30 was rated as one of the best whiskey’s in the world.

    https://www.masterofmalt.com/whiskies/hibiki-30-year-old-suntory-whisky/

  60. @Kyle McKenna
    There's nothing wrong with Japan that can't be fixed with a few hundred million Africans, Chinese, Latinos, Indians, etc etc.

    I personally resent the notion that the Japanese--with one of the world's highest standards of living and a notoriously safe, clean, and civil society--shouldn't be required to join in the fun that the world's (previously) white nations are having.

    Incase you didnt notice genius, the chinese are the same race as japanese, carriers of the mighty EDAR gene,so your wrong the chinese would be real good for the the japanese since it would increase the EDAR genes in japanese, whitey is the race that should be banned from japan since your genes are the worst among all races,also whitey especially the small brained basque british, go to japan with dishonourable intentions only, and the darker races go to japan only to earn money and not to take advantage of the naive asian women like whitey like you do.

    • Troll: Daniel Chieh
    • Replies: @2Mintzin1
    Being a small brained basque british, I didn't know a person could type in a strait jacket.
    Live and learn.
  61. @Art Deco
    They've had a 'stable economy' because

    (1) for 15 years their banks were hobbled by an overhang of nonperforming loans. In our recent unpleasantness here, about 7.4% of the loan portfolio of American commercial banks was delinquent at the peak of their trouble (which occurred about 3 years after the asset bubble began to deflate). Japan was looking at collective delinquency rates around 17% eight years after their asset bubble had begun to deflate.


    (2) Their workforce is aging, and entering cohorts are smaller than retiring cohorts.

    So they don’t pay their debt$, and they keep their labor market tight.

    The dirty yellow goyim!

  62. @Daniel Chieh
    Mexican food in Japan is indeed horrific from what I've heard. While they've duplicated ethnic food from other cultures with great success, there's just not that much interest in Mexican food for some reason.

    there’s just not that much interest in Mexican food for some reason.

    Because it’s awful slop? When you have a culinary arts population that is fully capable of perfectly mimicking any cuisine on earth, why would you bother with one of the worst cuisines on earth? Basically, you have every European and every Asian cuisine to contend with first before you sink low enough to need to whip up some burritos.

  63. res says:
    @Daniel H
    How relevant to your recent posts.

    https://newrepublic.com/article/143019/one-meal-day-lake-chad-vanishes-seven-million-people-starvation

    Now a word about how the soaring population growth of Niger, Nigeria, Chad and Cameroon might be contributing to the depletion of this shallow lake. But of course, Africans have no agency.

    It is all about the feelz. A few paragraphs of text and a multitude of evocative photographs.

    But remember, there will be no problem increasing the agricultural output of Africa to feed its future four billion people!

    And speaking to the “no agency” point, how many of the issues cited were countermeasures to local conflict (e.g. no crops providing concealment near roads, no fertilizer because explosives)?

  64. @Art Deco
    Here in America, we constantly hear about how awful the Japanese economy is, but that’s largely because it hasn’t done much of anything for Wall Street since the giant Bubble popped around 1990. But, the Japanese economy has been fairly successful for the Japanese.

    No, you hear about troubles in the Japanese economy because domestic product per capita in Japan (calculated according to purchasing power parity) went from 83% of that of the United States in 1990 to 72% of that of the United States in 2014. When your mean annual improvement in per capita income falls below 1% for an entire generation, people tend to think you have a rather nondynamic economy.

    Overall, Japan remains an affluent country with a well lubricated labor market. They are, however, facing a demographic crisis due to 40-odd years of well-below-replacement fertility.

    They are, however, facing a demographic crisis due to 40-odd years of well-below-replacement fertility

    There is no “demographic crisis.” This is a made up nothing sprung from the imaginations of economists creating propaganda for global oligarchs. In a highly evolved nation like Japan, a diminishing population is in EVERY way a good thing.

  65. “People just slowly increasing their wealth at the family level, living a productive and quiet life, and having 2 kids in a stable non-diverse population is TOTALLY UNACCEPTABLE!”

    It’s clearly anti-Semitic. Just imagine what stable, happy people who are not moving and working constantly might do:

    “Maybe Bowling Alone Isn’t So Bad” from Slate
    http://slate.me/1DMAbJn

    Even the Smurf village ought to be bombed or overrun or bled dry, because HITLER.

    • Replies: @Frau Katze
    I am not an anti-Semite at all, I have argued against it many times here.

    But we cannot forever go on associating everything connected with Nazis as if it were tainted, ritually unclean forever,

    For example, in the 1930s Germans first showed that smoking caused lung cancer.

    After the war, Big Tobacco made excellent use of saying, "Well that data was collected under the Nazis. You're going to believe that?"

    I read a long history of tobacco and the Nazi thing bought them a few more years (and more than a few lung cancer deaths).

    I'd like to see other examples besides Nazis.
  66. Recently I have problem reading Unz site: in Steve’s entries, I see only pirt part of the paragraphs, e.g. I see:

    Here in America, we constantly hear about how awful the Japanese economy is, but that’
    anything for Wall Street since the giant Bubble popped around 1990. But, the Japanese e
    has been fairly successful for the Japanese.

    However, when I mark it and copy, I see everything:

    Here in America, we constantly hear about how awful the Japanese economy is, but that’s largely because it hasn’t done much of anything for Wall Street since the giant Bubble popped around 1990. But, the Japanese economy has been fairly successful for the Japanese.

    I am using mozilla firefox 45.0 for Open Suse Leap

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
    Same here, Szopen, on my older firefox version. It's some kind of layering problem, and it just started about 2 days back. You can copy and paste it, as all the text has been sent, but the right frame/layer/whatever hides the right side of it. Annoying [tweet] [tweet]
  67. @spandrell
    That's exactly it. The western press speaks to plutocrats, and Japan indeed is a horrible place to invest.

    That said, Japanese wages remain stagnant, purchasing power is down due to raising withholding taxes to pay for Medicare, so Japanese living standards aren't exactly rising.

    Real (inflation adjusted) UK median male wages 2016 are lower than 1997, so that’s 19 years of decline. When the 2017 figures come out they’ll be lower still. And inflation figures ignore the huge increases in house prices and rents.

    Wage data – https://www.ons.gov.uk/employmentandlabourmarket/peopleinwork/earningsandworkinghours#timeseries

    Inflation data – http://www.bankofengland.co.uk/education/Pages/resources/inflationtools/calculator/default.aspx

    “Japan indeed is a horrible place to invest”

    That’s the paradox of investing in a monoracial, high-IQ society – they are more likely to be successful, but less likely to want to give money to outsiders and anyway are more egalitarian. Best bet for the plutocrat is a formerly monoracial, still high-IQ society, where “muh GDP” is everything and income differentials are large.

  68. My brother just returned from a business trip to Tokyo, he was there for about two weeks. Everyone is well aware that Tokyo’s a high cost of living city, and that housing prices are high. He was told that in some parts of the city, apartments go for as little as 400sq feet living space. That’s basically a cell block.

    So regarding cost of living, basically Tokyo is equivalent to NY. Wonder if you can rent a 400sq. foot apartment in New York, and if so, what would be the cost?

    Wonder if the other major cities in Japan have that cost of living, or if housing in Osaka and Kobe go for much less?

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman

    .. 400sq feet living space. That’s basically a cell block.
     
    No, I have lived in 300 ft^2, albeit only on the 2nd floor of a small 2-story bldg, and it was fine, really. It included a bathroom and full fridge and stove. This was me as a single guy. It was a really nice place, and I didn't end up digging through the wall behind my Raquel Welch poster to try to get out. What was good is that I didn't accumulate too much stuff (I had all the toys somewhere else!)
    , @Elsewhere
    Yes, in New York I had a 425 square foot one bedroom for $1500 per month in a neighborhood in the early-to-mid stages of gentrifying.
    , @Joe Schmoe
    I have a guest house just behind my house that is about that size. It would be okay for a young couple if they weren't acquisitive. It is very nice.

    Lots of extended stay hotels offer similarly sized places that have full kitchens. So, it is not horrible if you don't have tons of junk you just have to have.
  69. @Johann Ricke

    Their per worker GDP largely kept its ground.
     
    Japan's number went from 77% of the US number in 1991, 64% in 2016. So yes, Japan's growth has, in fact, been anemic.

    The real issue is that its productive population drop has taken nominal GDP per capita from its peak of 151% of the US number in 1995, to 68% of that number, as of 2016. That gives a much better idea of the impact of smaller numbers of young people entering the workforce on fiscal solvency. This is why Japan has kept raising tax rates while ballooning its government debt - its welfare state expenditures cannot be funded on the basis of the old tax rates, but even higher tax rates aren't slowing down the rate of debt accumulation. New taxpayers are shrinking in number, even as the ranks of pensioners reliant on welfare state promises for both income and medical care steadily increase.

    “The real issue is that its productive population drop has taken nominal GDP per capita from its peak of 151% of the US number in 1995, to 68% of that number, as of 2016.”

    Eamonn Fingleton of this parish has argued (in Forbes or the WSJ, I forget) that the Japanese are deliberately understating their GDP, something a Western globalist pol would find inexplicable.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/08/opinion/sunday/the-true-story-of-japans-economic-success.html

    Even Paul Krugman is a convert – quote from 2012

    “What we thought was that Japan was a cautionary tale. It has turned into Japan as almost a role model. They never had as big a slump as we have had. They managed to have growing per capita income through most of what we call their ‘lost decade’. My running joke is that the group of us who were worried about Japan a dozen years ago ought to go to Tokyo and apologise to the emperor. We’ve done worse than they ever did. When people ask: might we become Japan? I say: I wish we could become Japan.”

    https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2012/05/krugman-fingleton-and-japan/257716/

    • Replies: @Dieter Kief
    Krugman calims "a" here (in the case of Japan) and "b" there (in the case of Greece). He seems to acknowledge the Japanese benefits in your very interesting Atlantic quote (thanks!), whereas he strongly opposes the idea, that Greek economy's fault is homegrown (corruption, bad tax "system", wrong paths in education, no industry, less and less agriculture).
  70. Brenda Walker of VDARE reported in 2015 that Japan has developed robots to do a variety of things, including staffing hotels. This Tweet from 2015 has her bit of wisdom about immigration:

    “Even so, Washington is snoozing through the revolutionary upheaval in the workplace caused by technological inventions in robots, software and automation. Political hacks like Paul Ryan preach that the retirement of the boomer generation creates a worker shortage, requiring the importation of millions of foreigners to do the jobs.” — Brenda Walker

    The Deep State treasonites who run the American Empire are vile scum who push wage-reducing mass immigration. House Speaker Paul Ryan is a stooge for the Deep State. Paul Ryan does the bidding of evil money-grubbing bankers. The central bankers and the Deep State use mass immigration to stop wage inflation.

  71. OT:

    Eeyores and libs (but I repeat myself) BTFO yet again as Travel Ban affirmed 9-0.

    Tell me how Gorsuch was the biggest cuck ever cause he’s Episcopolian. Tell me how Trump won’t defend the ban because he’s “sold us out”.

    Tell me how you need your daddy Hanson, he of the rippling biceps, to tell you how wrong you are. Yet. Again.

    • Replies: @Chrisnonymous
    Yeah, a single vote in a 9-0 decision gives us a lot of info on Gorsuch. LOL.
  72. OT: Supreme Court has sort of upheld parts of the muslim travel ban and there will be more Supreme Court arguments on it to come, or something.

    http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/06/26/supreme-court-to-hear-trump-appeal-travel-ban-block.html

    • Replies: @res
    Hopefully that will help rein in the lower courts a bit. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure (cf. illegal immigration).
    , @candid_observer
    Given that the ruling was 9-0, it seems to be a pretty big victory for Trump. I wouldn't expect that there are many refugees coming from these areas who have a bona fide preexisting relationship with someone or something in the US.

    One would expect that the ultimate ruling will favor Trump even a good deal more, as the liberal judges are stripped off.

  73. @Chrisnonymous
    You heard right, and if you think the tacos are bad, just try the margaritas!

    I have a friend who used to teach English in Japan, and was apparently rejected by the parents of one prospective student for speaking “American English” as opposed to the presumably higher and more respectable Queen’s English. The weird fetish for a semi-imaginary mythical High Western culture is amusing at times.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Hah, more likely they just didn't like their prospective son-in-law and were just inventing excuses to reject him.
  74. I wondered myself about Japanese housing and found an official website that if I understand things correctly japan produced an astonishing 82 million sq meters of dwellings in 2016. Which I assumed I got wrong. Maybe iSteve can figure it out.

    https://www.mlit.go.jp/toukeijouhou/chojou/stat-e.htm

    NPR house propagandist claims living in a brand new house is actually a sign of Japanese backwardness.

    Stupiest think discussed: “there are nearly four times as many architects in Japan as in the U.S” Seems our little yellow friends want both new and unique. What fools.

    http://freakonomics.com/podcast/why-are-japanese-homes-disposable-a-new-freakonomics-radio-podcast-3/

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    The Japanese frequently expect to tear down and replace their housing stock every few decades.
  75. Here in America, we constantly hear about how awful the Japanese economy is … But, the Japanese economy has been fairly successful for the Japanese.

    Japan’s Wages Are Rising the Fastest in Decades: What it Means For Stocks

  76. @Chrisnonymous
    Steve,
    I appreciate your fighting the good fight on every front online, but I doubt there is much connection between livable housing and immigration.

    (1) Gains in living space are probably not distributed very evenly as it is. If there had been a lot more immigration, we would probably see a situation where immigrants were crammed together in smaller places. Gains would be continuing to be made by the native populace despite the "average floor space per person" not rising as much.

    (2) The gains are being made despite the rising population of Tokyo. There's nothing special about the situation. They're just building higher and higher. When yet more people move to Tokyo and demand yet more floor space, they'll build higher yet. Yawn.

    (3) The statistics as a reflection of quality of life may be deceptive. For example, there is a trend in Japan toward using western-style beds in place of traditional futon mattresses. Futons can be folded up and put away, allowing the room you sleep in to be multi-use. Beds cannot, necessitating extra floor space without any real gain in effective living space. Similarly with computer desks, couches, etc--just treading water really.

    (4) This discussion detracts from the very much more interesting issues about Japanese housing--for example, how can people live in such close proximity without constantly being at each other's throats? You can write lots of "it's going to be a hot summer in Chicago" posts, but you'll never write a "it's going to be a hot summer in Tokyo" post. Why? I think we all know.

    The Japanese economy has significant challenges, but I don’t think its as simple as to boil it down to immigration or lack of it thereof. I do think that the culture which, to its credit, can resist foreign pressure but can also behave in ways that seem to be completely at odds with Western rule of law and notions of fairness.

    Foreign capital often does seem unsafe, subject to various practices that essentially deny foreigners much control of their money once invested. And while I can see why the iSteve commentators would like that, it does have consequences when foreigners choose not to invest the country, and it negatively impacts the wage structure and dynamics.

    Similar attitudes of collusion are everywhere, such as travel agencies that raise prices in unison for Golden Week, while companies refuse to give time off except for Golden Week. This kind of lacking competition also makes them incapable of dealing with countries like China and force them to cede all low-margin manufacturing to them. Perhaps they’re refusing to race to the bottom, but in a way, its a kind of corruption and against a world of raw capitalism, something’s gotta give.

    There’s a price to pay for being insular. It might be worth it, but it does exist.

  77. Tangent:

    Are nice progressive San Francisco people turning to arson for gentrification purposes?

    http://www.gq.com/story/san-francisco-is-burning

    Astute readers will note that the tapestry of Diversity in this story is really prime stuff.

  78. res says:
    @PiltdownMan

    I’ve never been to Japan so I don’t know anything, but my vague impression is that their standard of living is slowly rising due to accumulation of nice things over time.
     
    Median net worth in Japan is about $120,000. That in the US is about $45,000.

    Their economy isn't growing, but they are stuck at a very high first world level of personal income, and have a positive savings rate, high job security and protections, and very tightly controlled immigration and they feel a whole lot richer.

    What's not to like?

    It is interesting to compare the median/mean net wealth for different countries. From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_wealth_per_adult
    Japan $110k/$217k
    US $45k/$301k
    That says a great deal. Then there is the debt also shown (not counted in wealth IIUC?) in that table. I wonder how that is distributed among the above/below median wealth group?

    I would not have guessed Australia had the highest median wealth in the OECD at $220k.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    The Welsh resorted to the Ted Nugent solution when Londoners bought up all the cottages. "If the house gets in my way, baby, you know, I'll burn it down."

    Top that, Chrissie.
  79. @Daniel H
    How relevant to your recent posts.

    https://newrepublic.com/article/143019/one-meal-day-lake-chad-vanishes-seven-million-people-starvation

    Now a word about how the soaring population growth of Niger, Nigeria, Chad and Cameroon might be contributing to the depletion of this shallow lake. But of course, Africans have no agency.

    Bugger the New Republic. My plate is full because my ancestors worked hard (and intelligently) to build a prosperous society. I’ve done my bit to maintain that society. I won’t venture a guess as to why the Sub-Saharan Africans haven’t done likewise, but it’s nothing to do with me.

  80. @Autochthon
    This is my favourite caption from the corny photographs:

    A bowl of peanuts, ground into an oily paste used to flavor bland food. Cameroonian women grind the nuts and mix the paste with their bare hands, leaving it to dry in the midday sun.
     
    In a place with inadequate water (the story's headline is the desiccation of a lake!) the thing to do is leave peanut oil out in the baking sun until all its moisture has evaporated, then eat it – you know, so you don't accidentally ingest any of the water the peanuts contained.

    No agency, indeed.

    A bowl of peanuts, ground into an oily paste used to flavor bland food. Cameroonian women grind the nuts and mix the paste with their bare hands

    So it’s true. Peanut butter is a black invention.

  81. @27 year old
    OT: Supreme Court has sort of upheld parts of the muslim travel ban and there will be more Supreme Court arguments on it to come, or something.

    http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/06/26/supreme-court-to-hear-trump-appeal-travel-ban-block.html

    Hopefully that will help rein in the lower courts a bit. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure (cf. illegal immigration).

  82. @Daniel H
    How relevant to your recent posts.

    https://newrepublic.com/article/143019/one-meal-day-lake-chad-vanishes-seven-million-people-starvation

    Now a word about how the soaring population growth of Niger, Nigeria, Chad and Cameroon might be contributing to the depletion of this shallow lake. But of course, Africans have no agency.

    What is really funny, is the article has one of the photographs mislabeled.

    They are calling a stalk of millet or sorghum, “red maize”. Maize is corn.

    • Replies: @PiltdownMan

    What is really funny, is the article has one of the photographs mislabeled.

    They are calling a stalk of millet or sorghum, “red maize”. Maize is corn.

     

    You're right. That looks like a diseased stalk of millet. Corn is indeed maize in North America. But the British usage of "corn" (perhaps dying out now?) is different. It simply means the principal cereal crop of a country. Corn in Scotland is oats, and in England is usually wheat or sometimes, barley.

    https://youtu.be/t8878chOvfI

  83. @Vinay
    But American house sizes have more than doubled in that same time frame. I don't have any stats on Lagos but I wouldn't be surprised if house sizes aren't any worse than 50 years ago.

    White people are more than welcome to claim the credit, or the blame, for this miracle of modernity -- ever increasing number of people housed in ever increasing comfort. :-)

    Having said that, third world city dwellers are no more enamoured of ever-increasing populations and claustrophobic crowding than Americans or Europeans. And controlling urban crowding doesn't seem to have any direct relation to overall population growth or immigration at all.

    But American house sizes have more than doubled in that same time frame…. White people are more than welcome to claim the credit, or the blame, for this miracle of modernity — ever increasing number of people housed in ever increasing comfort.

    Bigger houses cost more. We need our houses to cost more so minorities can’t afford them so we can live in a “nice neighborhood”.

    Historical Census of Housing Tables
    Home Values

    Adjusted to 2000 dollars
    California 1940: $36,700
    California 2000: $211,500

    A thrifty person could, today, move in to a $36,700 value house, but it would be in a “bad neighborhood”.

    A thrifty person in Japan could move in to a $36,700 house and not be in Detroit.

  84. The Japanese and the English are Island people. I saw Laurie Anderson make this obvious point on Manhattan Island. Japan has made the decision to remain Japanese. The ruling class of England has decided to flood their island with foreigners. The foreigners are from Europe or the Third World, but they are still foreigners, and they have changed England from what it was.

    The Japanese will have peace on their island. The English will have cultural disintegration and civil war. It will take much effort, but eventually the English will remove the foreigners in their nation. Many new fortunes will be made among the English who have the guts, balls and brains to reclaim their nation by removing the foreigners. William the Conqueror’s spirit will live again within the heart of the English.

    Japan should turn the screw and test a nuclear weapon for demonstration purposes. After Japan demonstrates to the world that they have a nuclear deterrent, the Japanese can then request that the American Empire leave their soil. The Japanese need to fully reclaim their national sovereignty.

    • Agree: Dan Hayes
  85. https://twitter.com/V_of_Europe/status/879049291683287041

    Japan is led by political leaders who put the interests of the Japanese first. Hungary is led by a political leader who puts the interests of Hungarians first. Japan and Hungary will not change the identity of their nations by allowing mass immigration.

  86. @Anonymous
    Nonsense.

    The Japanese population is still around the highest it's ever been.
    By simple arithmetic adding more people to the population by immigration can only mean more pressure on housing.

    It’s not “simple arithmetic” though. It’s economic growth that pays for things like housing, not “simple arithmetic.” That’s why people in the Dust Bowl lived in crummy shacks despite America in general, and the Dust Bowl in particular, at the time being much lower in population.

    • Replies: @Difference Maker
    Encouraging immigration because of a fetish for 'Economic growth' means everyone will be living in crummy shacks except for the powers that be. Just look at New York

    It is our technological advance that has led to many new & incredible comforts, but just let in unskilled immigration and that will disappear. Imagine if Japan was populated by a low iq population.

    , @Anonymous
    Well, apparently, some posters here have trouble with the concept that two plus two equals four.
    Look, if I share out ten oranges amongst two people, then they'd have more oranges per capita than if I shared them out amongst five people.

    There is no correlation between 'population growth' and 'economic growth' despite what certain people say. If it were true, Mali would be the richest - and best housed - nation on earth.
    There is, however, a correlation between housing density and the number of people wishing to be housed.
    , @MarkinLA
    It’s economic growth that pays for things like housing, not “simple arithmetic.”

    Define meaningful "economic growth". This is the real problem isn't it? We have this useless stat called GDP that goes up when I buy a Chinese made item.

    Using the Dust Bowl period isn't a valid comparison either. People working the mines were living in company owned housing that wasn't particularly well built and factory workers in the cities were living in crowded rented tenements.
  87. @White Guy In Japan
    Oh, we get some vibrancy here in Japan. Just enough to know we don't want anymore.
    http://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2015/10/25/national/seven-injured-clashes-outside-turkish-embassy/

    Or search for Iranian murders in Nagoya.

    @ 9 White Guy in Japan: The link notes there are more than 3500 Turks in Japan. Other than the handful at the Embassy, why are there ANY Turks in Japan? What need do they fill? Serious question.

    • Replies: @White Guy In Japan
    The Turkish and Japanese governments have a friendly relationship due to some historical co-operation.
    They serve no real need tbh.
    , @Hippopotamusdrome

    why are there ANY Turks in Japan?

     

    Doing the rapes the Japanese wont do.
    Tokyo cops arrest 2 Turks seeking refugee status in gang rape of woman
  88. @Daniel Chieh
    Mexican food in Japan is indeed horrific from what I've heard. While they've duplicated ethnic food from other cultures with great success, there's just not that much interest in Mexican food for some reason.

    @41 Daniel Chieh: Maybe because Mexican food sucks? Spanish food, on the other hand, with Arab and Mediterranean influences, is a lovely blend of strong and subtle flavors not overwhelmed with beans, corn, and chiles.

  89. I still have yet to receive a logical reply as to how one can be for open borders, environmentalism, green energy, and unending aid for impoverished countries.

  90. @Daniel Chieh
    I have a friend who used to teach English in Japan, and was apparently rejected by the parents of one prospective student for speaking "American English" as opposed to the presumably higher and more respectable Queen's English. The weird fetish for a semi-imaginary mythical High Western culture is amusing at times.

    Hah, more likely they just didn’t like their prospective son-in-law and were just inventing excuses to reject him.

  91. Gee, I thought I was living large with 1,200 sq ft in Manhattan back in the day … we were always so sure that we didn’t have it as bad as our friends in Tokyo.

  92. @Anonymous
    Actually, incomes in the UK have stagnated for the past 10 years at least.
    This despite unprecedented massive levels of immigration.
    In quite a few years UK GDP per capita actually declined due to population growth outstripping economic growth.

    Actually, incomes in the UK have stagnated for the past 10 years at least.
    This despite unprecedented massive levels of immigration. In quite a few years UK GDP per capita actually declined due to population growth outstripping economic growth.

    It declined in real terms (year-over-year) between 2007 and 2009. Not after that.

  93. @Citizen of a Silly Country
    Japan's GDP per capita growth has been around 0.63% annual for the past 25 years - about when their stock and real estate bubble popped.

    That compares to ~1.5% for the U.S. and ~1.0% for Germany. However, Japan continues to have a higher GDP per capita than Germany so some of that sluggishness may be been due to starting a higher level. Also, over the past decade, Japanese GDP per capita growth has been at least as good as the U.S.

    Main point is that Steve is right. Japan's economy is working just fine for the Japanese people, which, you know, should be the point of an economy, i.e. an economy should serve its people, not the other way around. Wall Street and and federal government want as much aggregate GDP growth as possible without caring so much about GDP per capita growth.

    I sometimes wonder if Marx may be been right about capitalism sewing the seeds of its own destruction. The Japanese seemed to have harnished this tool rather than bowing before it.

    “However, Japan continues to have a higher GDP per capita than Germany”
    GDP per capita is higher in Germany than in Japan, and that despite immigration which all in all much likely had a negative effect on GDP per capita in Germany

    • Replies: @Citizen of a Silly Country
    I think that you're right. I was using the site tradingeconomics but the CIA confirms what you say.

    Regardless, as many others have noted, GDP per capita, while something to consider, isn't the end all be all. A lot of other things go into happiness. Don't get me wrong, in general, higher GDP per capita is better, but if two countries are reasonably close and relatively affluent, other aspects of life become more important - like, I don't know, inbred towel-heads taking over neighborhoods.
  94. @Anonymous
    Perhaps.

    But just what and which section of the American population captured *all* of that GDP increase?

    As I never tire to point out median US wages, adjusted for inflation, are no higher now than in 1972. 1972 is an awfully long time ago now.

    As I never tire to point out median US wages, adjusted for inflation, are no higher now than in 1972. 1972 is an awfully long time ago now.

    You’re never tiring to point out something that’s misleading.

    • Replies: @George
    "As I never tire to point out median US wages, adjusted for inflation, are no higher now than in 1972. 1972 is an awfully long time ago now.

    You’re never tiring to point out something that’s misleading."

    How is that misleading?
  95. @Citizen of a Silly Country
    Japan's GDP per capita growth has been around 0.63% annual for the past 25 years - about when their stock and real estate bubble popped.

    That compares to ~1.5% for the U.S. and ~1.0% for Germany. However, Japan continues to have a higher GDP per capita than Germany so some of that sluggishness may be been due to starting a higher level. Also, over the past decade, Japanese GDP per capita growth has been at least as good as the U.S.

    Main point is that Steve is right. Japan's economy is working just fine for the Japanese people, which, you know, should be the point of an economy, i.e. an economy should serve its people, not the other way around. Wall Street and and federal government want as much aggregate GDP growth as possible without caring so much about GDP per capita growth.

    I sometimes wonder if Marx may be been right about capitalism sewing the seeds of its own destruction. The Japanese seemed to have harnished this tool rather than bowing before it.

    Japan’s GDP per capita growth has been around 0.63% annual for the past 25 years – about when their stock and real estate bubble popped.

    That compares to ~1.5% for the U.S. and ~1.0% for Germany. However, Japan continues to have a higher GDP per capita than Germany so some of that sluggishness may be been due to starting a higher level. Also, over the past decade, Japanese GDP per capita growth has been at least as good as the U.S.

    And perhaps most importantly, GDP is only an approximate measure of living standards. For example, in some places in the United States, private schools and gated communities are a necessity. Both of them increase GDP while lowering living standards.

    How awful of the Japanese to have good public schools everywhere!

    • Replies: @Citizen of a Silly Country
    Yep. I grew up in a small Midwestern town. In today's dollars, you could a very happy life for $50k to $60k. Do you get nice vacations, a McMansion and a Lexus. No. But you do get to play a lot of golf, have time for friends and family and the absolute supreme joy of living amongst your own.

    Priceless.
  96. @Achmed E. Newman
    Hey, Mr. Turdgidson, looks like we're on the same roll page, with the toilet paper sales meme. You can bill me for using your example. I'll pay you in toilet paper futures dollars.

    AEN, I think we’ve both picked up on Steve’s toilet paper sales metric. I like the diapers sales indicator, as well, for overall national economic strength and quality of life.

    The misspelling (maybe intentional?) of my last name in your message is kind of funny, giving the talk about toilet paper. Ha ha

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
    No offense intended, of course. It was a typo or just plain misspelling. So Steve started that stuff .... Zerohedge could really use a guy like you, Steve ( from the comments anyway, it seems like they'd both like you and be able to learn something.)
  97. @Jason Liu
    b-b-but wut about economic growth?

    per capita GDP is actually growing faster in Japan than the United States and Europe over the last decade. More living space per person also indicates that their standard of living is getting better.

    we should expect their GDP to be stagnant as the population over 60 has increased dramatically. Old people spend less money than the young, but while not being productive can often live well on a moderate budget, as they already own their homes and have already raised their children.

    • Replies: @Dave Pinsen
    Japan also leads the world in life expectancy, quality of infrastructure, safety, the number of Michelin-starred restaurants in Tokyo, etc.
  98. @Art Deco
    As I never tire to point out median US wages, adjusted for inflation, are no higher now than in 1972. 1972 is an awfully long time ago now.

    You're never tiring to point out something that's misleading.

    “As I never tire to point out median US wages, adjusted for inflation, are no higher now than in 1972. 1972 is an awfully long time ago now.

    You’re never tiring to point out something that’s misleading.”

    How is that misleading?

    • Replies: @snorlax
    A much larger percentage of jobs now pay salaries instead of an hourly wage, and salaries have increased substantially, moreover, certain high-pay jobs (nurse, engineer, pilot and so on) that were often hourly wage positions in 1972 are nowadays universally salaried positions.
  99. OT, via *sigh* John Oliver: https://www.statnews.com/2017/05/08/measles-vaccines-somali/

    tl;dr: Somalis in Minnesota are not getting vaccinated and getting hit with a measles outbreak.

  100. Also, tourism is booming in Tokyo now, thanks to its lack of jihadists:

    • Replies: @Dave Pinsen
    Looks like Unz.com ate this tweet. Trying again:

    https://twitter.com/dpinsen/status/879219887004057600

  101. @27 year old
    OT: Supreme Court has sort of upheld parts of the muslim travel ban and there will be more Supreme Court arguments on it to come, or something.

    http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/06/26/supreme-court-to-hear-trump-appeal-travel-ban-block.html

    Given that the ruling was 9-0, it seems to be a pretty big victory for Trump. I wouldn’t expect that there are many refugees coming from these areas who have a bona fide preexisting relationship with someone or something in the US.

    One would expect that the ultimate ruling will favor Trump even a good deal more, as the liberal judges are stripped off.

    • Replies: @candid_observer
    One thing I wonder about is whether the 9th and 4th Circuit courts won't try to find some way to Resist even the SC--maybe allowing all sorts of crazy lawsuits to go forward, and all sorts of crazy exceptions?

    I don't have a good idea of how well lower courts can be restrained under these circumstances. These lower courts obviously don't have a lot of respect for legal precedent or protocol.

  102. @Steve Sailer
    I've never been to Japan so I don't know anything, but my vague impression is that their standard of living is slowly rising due to accumulation of nice things over time.

    There’s something to that, indeed. But the decreasing amount of rent is making rent-seeking battles very acrimonious these days. And Western pozz is increasing slowly but steadily.

    Nice things stop mattering very fast when 30% of the population can’t be bothered to have sex out of sheer mistrust of the other sex.

    • Replies: @Opinionator
    Nice things stop mattering very fast when 30% of the population can’t be bothered to have sex out of sheer mistrust of the other sex.

    Is there any evidence that is what is (not) happening?
  103. @candid_observer
    Given that the ruling was 9-0, it seems to be a pretty big victory for Trump. I wouldn't expect that there are many refugees coming from these areas who have a bona fide preexisting relationship with someone or something in the US.

    One would expect that the ultimate ruling will favor Trump even a good deal more, as the liberal judges are stripped off.

    One thing I wonder about is whether the 9th and 4th Circuit courts won’t try to find some way to Resist even the SC–maybe allowing all sorts of crazy lawsuits to go forward, and all sorts of crazy exceptions?

    I don’t have a good idea of how well lower courts can be restrained under these circumstances. These lower courts obviously don’t have a lot of respect for legal precedent or protocol.

    • Replies: @The True and Original David
    Every pro-rapeugee org is working through the night to figure out ways to rig up "established relationships with US people or entities" for their clientele. Guaranteed.

    One way is to "hire" them as "native councilors." Who else but rapeugees are better qualified to determine if other rapeugees are terrorists? The job offer can be made and "accepted" before the rapeugee even gets ON the boat. "He is an employee urgently needed for a unique job...you're not in favor of terrorism, are you?"

    Thought of two other dodges while typing that, but why give the bastards any ideas?

  104. @Travis
    per capita GDP is actually growing faster in Japan than the United States and Europe over the last decade. More living space per person also indicates that their standard of living is getting better.

    we should expect their GDP to be stagnant as the population over 60 has increased dramatically. Old people spend less money than the young, but while not being productive can often live well on a moderate budget, as they already own their homes and have already raised their children.

    Japan also leads the world in life expectancy, quality of infrastructure, safety, the number of Michelin-starred restaurants in Tokyo, etc.

  105. @Dave Pinsen
    Also, tourism is booming in Tokyo now, thanks to its lack of jihadists:
    https://twitter.com/dpinsen/status/879219887004057600

    Looks like Unz.com ate this tweet. Trying again:

    • Replies: @Jenner Ickham Errican
    Looks like you’re on the same Unz code tweet blacklist (#64, #40) as Richard Spencer. Sheeeeiiitt.
  106. @Buck Turgidson
    AEN, I think we've both picked up on Steve's toilet paper sales metric. I like the diapers sales indicator, as well, for overall national economic strength and quality of life.

    The misspelling (maybe intentional?) of my last name in your message is kind of funny, giving the talk about toilet paper. Ha ha

    No offense intended, of course. It was a typo or just plain misspelling. So Steve started that stuff …. Zerohedge could really use a guy like you, Steve ( from the comments anyway, it seems like they’d both like you and be able to learn something.)

    • Replies: @Buck Turgidson
    No, of course not. I thought it was funny. LOL on this end. Cheers mate!
  107. @George
    I wondered myself about Japanese housing and found an official website that if I understand things correctly japan produced an astonishing 82 million sq meters of dwellings in 2016. Which I assumed I got wrong. Maybe iSteve can figure it out.

    https://www.mlit.go.jp/toukeijouhou/chojou/stat-e.htm

    NPR house propagandist claims living in a brand new house is actually a sign of Japanese backwardness.

    Stupiest think discussed: "there are nearly four times as many architects in Japan as in the U.S" Seems our little yellow friends want both new and unique. What fools.

    http://freakonomics.com/podcast/why-are-japanese-homes-disposable-a-new-freakonomics-radio-podcast-3/

    The Japanese frequently expect to tear down and replace their housing stock every few decades.

    • Replies: @Charles Pewitt
    On Stones in Japan, Tsunami Warnings — Aneyoshi Journal https://nyti.ms/2uaK4P7

    The Japanese have for centuries left stone markers to tell future generations about how high the water got in past tsunamis. The Japanese ignored these markers to build where the water went. I figure if they don't expect their houses to last too long, they wouldn't care if they got washed away. Just build another.
  108. @al-Gharaniq
    Wouldn't this have more to do with a declining/stagnating population growth due to birth rates rather than immigration policies per se?

    Sure, immigration does increase population growth and inflate birth rates, but absent that, this (intuitively) seems to be the result of a declining birth rates + smart housing policies. It seems far-fetched to tie immigration to this.

    Sure, immigration does increase population growth and inflate birth rates, but absent that, this (intuitively) seems to be the result of a declining birth rates + smart housing policies. It seems far-fetched to tie immigration to this.

    No, it doesn’t. Declining birth rates have no effect on anything in the absence of immigration restriction.

  109. @Steve Sailer
    The Japanese frequently expect to tear down and replace their housing stock every few decades.

    On Stones in Japan, Tsunami Warnings — Aneyoshi Journal https://nyti.ms/2uaK4P7

    The Japanese have for centuries left stone markers to tell future generations about how high the water got in past tsunamis. The Japanese ignored these markers to build where the water went. I figure if they don’t expect their houses to last too long, they wouldn’t care if they got washed away. Just build another.

  110. @3g4me
    @ 9 White Guy in Japan: The link notes there are more than 3500 Turks in Japan. Other than the handful at the Embassy, why are there ANY Turks in Japan? What need do they fill? Serious question.

    The Turkish and Japanese governments have a friendly relationship due to some historical co-operation.
    They serve no real need tbh.

    • Replies: @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    Nearly non-existent in ancient times. WW2, perhaps? Which side was Turkey on in WW2?

    It boggles the mind that 3500 Turks for no apparent reason decided to trek eastward to the island nation a la "Yep, we'll make our abode here!" Why? They don't have any historical legitimacy to living in Japan, period. The Turkish and Japanese languages aren't related in any sense of the word, and one nation is Islamic while the other is Shinto/Buddhist. After all, if Japan could throw out/strongly advise that Brazilians return back to Brazil (and those at least had some DNA tie to Japan), it should go without saying that they should stop accepting Turks.

    Is immigration ever an election issue? As in, do voters want more of it, or do they want the government to restrict it even more?
  111. Trump’s partial Muslim ban and refugee program suspension is partially restored by the Supreme Court pending appeal.

    https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/16pdf/16-1436_l6hc.pdf

    Looks like the liberals have signalled to Kennedy and Roberts that they will sign on to just about anything to avoid a full win for Trump. All 9 judges agreed that the Dem majorities in the lower courts were wrong to issue a full injunction.

  112. @Erik Sieven
    "However, Japan continues to have a higher GDP per capita than Germany"
    GDP per capita is higher in Germany than in Japan, and that despite immigration which all in all much likely had a negative effect on GDP per capita in Germany

    I think that you’re right. I was using the site tradingeconomics but the CIA confirms what you say.

    Regardless, as many others have noted, GDP per capita, while something to consider, isn’t the end all be all. A lot of other things go into happiness. Don’t get me wrong, in general, higher GDP per capita is better, but if two countries are reasonably close and relatively affluent, other aspects of life become more important – like, I don’t know, inbred towel-heads taking over neighborhoods.

  113. @Undocumented Shopper

    Japan’s GDP per capita growth has been around 0.63% annual for the past 25 years – about when their stock and real estate bubble popped.

    That compares to ~1.5% for the U.S. and ~1.0% for Germany. However, Japan continues to have a higher GDP per capita than Germany so some of that sluggishness may be been due to starting a higher level. Also, over the past decade, Japanese GDP per capita growth has been at least as good as the U.S.
     
    And perhaps most importantly, GDP is only an approximate measure of living standards. For example, in some places in the United States, private schools and gated communities are a necessity. Both of them increase GDP while lowering living standards.

    How awful of the Japanese to have good public schools everywhere!

    Yep. I grew up in a small Midwestern town. In today’s dollars, you could a very happy life for $50k to $60k. Do you get nice vacations, a McMansion and a Lexus. No. But you do get to play a lot of golf, have time for friends and family and the absolute supreme joy of living amongst your own.

    Priceless.

  114. @Dieter Kief
    A stable economy is a nightmare for Wall St. - and other kinds of speculators. The more the WSJ complains about Japan, the better for the Japanese.

    For my humble mind it is hardly believable, that such simple cause and effect phenomenons are not well understood - and communicated worldwide. And not taught in schools etc.

    Uh, what cause and effect phenomenon are you referring to?

    • Replies: @Dieter Kief
    It's no use to speculate against the Yen - and the stock-market is not volatile (=a bore=stable): Economic stability offers no opportunity for fast money. Bad news for Hedgefonds attacks and: - No country for old Soros (and the like) man.
  115. @Art Deco
    Here in America, we constantly hear about how awful the Japanese economy is, but that’s largely because it hasn’t done much of anything for Wall Street since the giant Bubble popped around 1990. But, the Japanese economy has been fairly successful for the Japanese.

    No, you hear about troubles in the Japanese economy because domestic product per capita in Japan (calculated according to purchasing power parity) went from 83% of that of the United States in 1990 to 72% of that of the United States in 2014. When your mean annual improvement in per capita income falls below 1% for an entire generation, people tend to think you have a rather nondynamic economy.

    Overall, Japan remains an affluent country with a well lubricated labor market. They are, however, facing a demographic crisis due to 40-odd years of well-below-replacement fertility.

    A demographic “crisis”? Please define.

  116. @Johann Ricke

    Their per worker GDP largely kept its ground.
     
    Japan's number went from 77% of the US number in 1991, 64% in 2016. So yes, Japan's growth has, in fact, been anemic.

    The real issue is that its productive population drop has taken nominal GDP per capita from its peak of 151% of the US number in 1995, to 68% of that number, as of 2016. That gives a much better idea of the impact of smaller numbers of young people entering the workforce on fiscal solvency. This is why Japan has kept raising tax rates while ballooning its government debt - its welfare state expenditures cannot be funded on the basis of the old tax rates, but even higher tax rates aren't slowing down the rate of debt accumulation. New taxpayers are shrinking in number, even as the ranks of pensioners reliant on welfare state promises for both income and medical care steadily increase.

    Japan’s number went from 77% of the US number in 1991, 64% in 2016. So yes, Japan’s growth has, in fact, been anemic.

    Only if you define “anemic” as anything less than that posted by the United States between 1991 and 2016. Absurd.

  117. I have a japanese friend who hates the basque british diaspora , because of the way they were drug into WW2, and their country suuffering 2 nukes just because the basque british were butthurt that they were shown to be cowards in singapore and malaysia, he was very proud about how they basque british were defeated in ww2 in singapore .

  118. @spandrell
    There's something to that, indeed. But the decreasing amount of rent is making rent-seeking battles very acrimonious these days. And Western pozz is increasing slowly but steadily.

    Nice things stop mattering very fast when 30% of the population can't be bothered to have sex out of sheer mistrust of the other sex.

    Nice things stop mattering very fast when 30% of the population can’t be bothered to have sex out of sheer mistrust of the other sex.

    Is there any evidence that is what is (not) happening?

    • Replies: @White Guy In Japan
    The Japanese typically work long hours and are rather low-T people. Combine this with social/cultural demands on each other (they are quite risk averse) and some young adults opt out of sex/relationships. Women can go shopping with their friends and men can watch anime.

    Lots of pornography and prostitution around here.

    (For the record, I have never suffered from celibacy in Japan.)
    , @spandrell
    If you mean the figures, there's plenty of news articles out there with the numbers.

    If you mean the cause, a short look at the Japanese internet and you'll find plenty of Japanese men telling you exactly that. Women are too much trouble, cost too much money, and can't be trusted, so why would anyone bother to start a relationship, let alone a family.
  119. @Dave Pinsen
    Looks like Unz.com ate this tweet. Trying again:

    https://twitter.com/dpinsen/status/879219887004057600

    Looks like you’re on the same Unz code tweet blacklist (#64, #40) as Richard Spencer. Sheeeeiiitt.

  120. @candid_observer
    One thing I wonder about is whether the 9th and 4th Circuit courts won't try to find some way to Resist even the SC--maybe allowing all sorts of crazy lawsuits to go forward, and all sorts of crazy exceptions?

    I don't have a good idea of how well lower courts can be restrained under these circumstances. These lower courts obviously don't have a lot of respect for legal precedent or protocol.

    Every pro-rapeugee org is working through the night to figure out ways to rig up “established relationships with US people or entities” for their clientele. Guaranteed.

    One way is to “hire” them as “native councilors.” Who else but rapeugees are better qualified to determine if other rapeugees are terrorists? The job offer can be made and “accepted” before the rapeugee even gets ON the boat. “He is an employee urgently needed for a unique job…you’re not in favor of terrorism, are you?”

    Thought of two other dodges while typing that, but why give the bastards any ideas?

  121. Thanks to Emmie Ingracious you can all downsize your lives. Japan may be getting more room due to rational policies and a government that doesn’t hate them and want them dead, but with the Emmie Ingracious Plan of Downsizing your living space is being reduced. Its good for the Planet – or planners, as the case may be. No more lawns, or backyards, or spare bedrooms. No, with the Emmie Ingracious Plan you can all live in a micro housing facility. A small rectangular box about the size of a prison cell that you pay for yourself and support a village from Hellholistan. With the Emmie Ingracious Plan you can help save owls, or whales, or wolves and enjoy the kind of small claustrophobic existence you only normally receive from Detention Facilities in a Police State. The new micro house is perfect for the person who works five jobs to support him or her self and five hundred foreigners who want you dead. It has just enough space to get into, and you can set up a bed, a computer, a table or a couch. Just not at the same time. If you feel a little cramped, you can always climb on top and have a nap or perhaps pretend you’re an airline pilot or WWI flying ace.
    Better living through our service oriented economy of planned serfdom.

  122. @mighty EDAR
    Incase you didnt notice genius, the chinese are the same race as japanese, carriers of the mighty EDAR gene,so your wrong the chinese would be real good for the the japanese since it would increase the EDAR genes in japanese, whitey is the race that should be banned from japan since your genes are the worst among all races,also whitey especially the small brained basque british, go to japan with dishonourable intentions only, and the darker races go to japan only to earn money and not to take advantage of the naive asian women like whitey like you do.

    Being a small brained basque british, I didn’t know a person could type in a strait jacket.
    Live and learn.

    • Replies: @MIGHTY EDAR
    Is that all you come up with small brained long headed curly haired fellow
    , @Buzz Mohawk
    If you put a billion monkeys in front of a billion keyboards long enough...
  123. @Chris Mallory
    What is really funny, is the article has one of the photographs mislabeled.

    They are calling a stalk of millet or sorghum, "red maize". Maize is corn.

    What is really funny, is the article has one of the photographs mislabeled.

    They are calling a stalk of millet or sorghum, “red maize”. Maize is corn.

    You’re right. That looks like a diseased stalk of millet. Corn is indeed maize in North America. But the British usage of “corn” (perhaps dying out now?) is different. It simply means the principal cereal crop of a country. Corn in Scotland is oats, and in England is usually wheat or sometimes, barley.

  124. @3g4me
    @ 9 White Guy in Japan: The link notes there are more than 3500 Turks in Japan. Other than the handful at the Embassy, why are there ANY Turks in Japan? What need do they fill? Serious question.

    why are there ANY Turks in Japan?

    Doing the rapes the Japanese wont do.
    Tokyo cops arrest 2 Turks seeking refugee status in gang rape of woman

  125. @1661er
    One thing about Tokyo is that they are willing and able to landfill Tokyo Bay to create new residential and business districts.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Odaiba

    In US, NIMBY organizations crow about their abilities to deny people affordable housings.

    https://blog.savesfbay.org/2013/09/bay-or-river/

    Image if there are additional 320 squares miles of lands out from the former SF Bay. The land rush from the modern day Arkies/Orkies or just people who currently commuting from Central Valley can move closer to their work. The change in voters demo would end the career of politicians like Nancy Pelosi.

    Battery Park City in Manhattan (just west of the World Trade Center site/Freedom Tower) was built on landfill.

  126. About 50 square miles of Singapore is reclaimed land/landfill, or roughly about 20% of its total land area.

    http://www.nlb.gov.sg/biblioasia/2017/04/04/land-from-sand-singapores-reclamation-story/#sthash.mZo7X3IU.dpbs

  127. @Johann Ricke

    Their per worker GDP largely kept its ground.
     
    Japan's number went from 77% of the US number in 1991, 64% in 2016. So yes, Japan's growth has, in fact, been anemic.

    The real issue is that its productive population drop has taken nominal GDP per capita from its peak of 151% of the US number in 1995, to 68% of that number, as of 2016. That gives a much better idea of the impact of smaller numbers of young people entering the workforce on fiscal solvency. This is why Japan has kept raising tax rates while ballooning its government debt - its welfare state expenditures cannot be funded on the basis of the old tax rates, but even higher tax rates aren't slowing down the rate of debt accumulation. New taxpayers are shrinking in number, even as the ranks of pensioners reliant on welfare state promises for both income and medical care steadily increase.

    How much has the US’s growth been wrapped up in financial instruments that are out of the reach of the typical American citizen? How much growth is wrapped up in high priced residential areas so Chinese or large banks can pay cash and rent them out, making home ownership that much more difficult for a young family to start out in by driving up prices?

    There’s more to success and progress than GDP growth. Japan has problems but Japan remains Japan. We’re turning into North Brazil just because we demand 2% GDP growth or more, regardless of what the country turns into.

  128. @2Mintzin1
    Being a small brained basque british, I didn't know a person could type in a strait jacket.
    Live and learn.

    Is that all you come up with small brained long headed curly haired fellow

  129. @The True and Original David
    "People just slowly increasing their wealth at the family level, living a productive and quiet life, and having 2 kids in a stable non-diverse population is TOTALLY UNACCEPTABLE!"

    It's clearly anti-Semitic. Just imagine what stable, happy people who are not moving and working constantly might do:

    "Maybe Bowling Alone Isn't So Bad" from Slate
    http://slate.me/1DMAbJn

    Even the Smurf village ought to be bombed or overrun or bled dry, because HITLER.

    I am not an anti-Semite at all, I have argued against it many times here.

    But we cannot forever go on associating everything connected with Nazis as if it were tainted, ritually unclean forever,

    For example, in the 1930s Germans first showed that smoking caused lung cancer.

    After the war, Big Tobacco made excellent use of saying, “Well that data was collected under the Nazis. You’re going to believe that?”

    I read a long history of tobacco and the Nazi thing bought them a few more years (and more than a few lung cancer deaths).

    I’d like to see other examples besides Nazis.

    • Replies: @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    I remember reading the same thing about smoking. Actually the Germans starting researching the cause with lung cancer after WW1, ca.1920, and I believe they published their preliminary findings ca.1929. This helped set the work later done by other nations on smoking-lung cancer association.
    As the research was begun and the findings were pretty much published before the Nazis took power, technically it wasn't Nazism per se, but the point is well taken. There's no cause and effect that anti-smoking equals Nazis.
    , @Achmed E. Newman

    I’d like to see other examples besides Nazis.
     
    Frau Katze, the next, or maybe first, to bring up should be the Bolsheviks/Soviets and the Red Chinese.

    "Hey, what's this TSA groping business, what is this Soviet Russia?" Why don't you ever hear that. I'll tell you why - because they don't want to disrespect Communism, because it's a good system, the Russians and the Chinese, and the Cubans* just did it wrong! They had the wrong guy(s) in charge, that's all. Ask Bernie Sanders supporters - "we just need to run it the RIGHT way with the RIGHT people, like some of us here!"


    * ... oh, and the Cambodians, ... and Ho Chi Min, .... and the Angolan .... Shining Path folks in Peru, ... and a few more Commies down in Argentina and elsewhere in S. America .....

    .... oh, yeah, and in El Salvador ... and Albania ...

    Well, of course, Communism is a great system and it goes without saying that it was implemented wrong in Russia, China, Cuba, Cambodia, VietNam, Angola, Peru, Argentina, El Salvador, and Albania. Other than that "What has the Free World ever done for us?!"</b?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uvPbj9NX0zc
    , @The True and Original David
    The causes of the World Wars are complicated and dirty, and no party was a good actor. It's hard to defend Germany (and others), but in my opinion you're right to imply that the Goldhagen thesis is inaccurate. Just as not every German citizen was a monster, so not every German doctor was a "Mengele."
    , @Dieter Kief
    Your tobacco-example is telling, didn't know that. Thanks.

    Exept for that: It' s obviously very hard for the human mind to differentiate between wrong thoughts and things thought of by the wrong (=guilty) person.

    Except for that, having been (governed by) Nazis brought shame to Germany - and to (large parts of) the world. And shame is a strong emotion - and therefor an obstacle to clear mindedness - which in this case is extraordinaryily important, because to develop a non-hysterical attitude concerning Nazism implies the as I said above: Extraordinarily difficult task to differentiate bettween wrong thougts and concepts) and thoughts (and concepts) held from the wrong persons (=Nazis, for example).

    To stay for a second in this region of abstract thoughts: It is quite usual in Germany up to this day, that poeple accuse one another of not being appropriately ashamed for the Nazi period, and therefor dangerous.

    This has become a routine of everyday life - a ritual of sorts - and now comes the next hurdle - even though Psychiatrist and Philosopher Karl Jaspers in the fifties (!) made a widely accepted differentiation in saying: Persons who did unlawful things in the Nazi period should well be ashamed, the others need n o t be ashamed though, because this would imply collective German guilt for the Nazi deeds, which would not only be deeply unjust for all those Germans, who suffered from the Nazis and / or for all those, who resisted them (if unseccessfully) - but it would also hurt the good juridical practise to bind guilt at the proven facts in a regular trial.
    He then went on to ask a l l Germans, to take up the responsibility for the Nazi deeds for everybody who has been killed or hurt or treated unjust in other ways by the Nazis.

    This is all very clear and widely accepted - and even though hard to follow through in everyday struggles. It just so happened that the extraordinarily accomplished German historian Rolf Peter Sieferle got attacked by seemingly all of the reasonable (=established) German public in the last three weeks for resisting - Collective German guilt, and stating, that the idea of collective German guilt kind of blinds the German public to understand, or even realise the threats of immigration - and African population growth.

    An example, Rolf Petere sieferle could have made, if he wouldn't have died last summer, was the Geman (conservative!) secretary of state for International Development who stated these days, that Germany has (with others, ok) the task, to create 20 million jobs in Africa - - PER YEAR - and STOP CLIMATE-CHANGE - or else, there will be 100 million Africans coming to the EU.

    It is obvious from such staatements, that something is still wrong in lots of heads of the German public - and that this something - - goes right back to the "Third Reich".

    (Mind everybody reading this, especially the short-circuited: I don't say, we Germans are short of reason to this day for no reason).

  130. @Opinionator
    Nice things stop mattering very fast when 30% of the population can’t be bothered to have sex out of sheer mistrust of the other sex.

    Is there any evidence that is what is (not) happening?

    The Japanese typically work long hours and are rather low-T people. Combine this with social/cultural demands on each other (they are quite risk averse) and some young adults opt out of sex/relationships. Women can go shopping with their friends and men can watch anime.

    Lots of pornography and prostitution around here.

    (For the record, I have never suffered from celibacy in Japan.)

    • Replies: @Low T Japan
    If Japanese are such low T people, how Come they conquered almost entire South East Asia 2 million square miles in 6-months during WWII?

    May be you are low T and projecting.

    Also, Japan still produces almost 1-million babies/year, almost all of whom are Japanese. This is more than the combined births of all German and English white babies.

    Remember, until WWI Japan population was same as Germany. So Japanese are doing very well even demographically. Their land is same size as Germany. But double the babies/year.
    , @mukat
    Marry a Japanese woman, and you will know celibacy. After that you can do as the Japanese men do (the same ones you mock today), and go whoring.
  131. @Opinionator
    Nice things stop mattering very fast when 30% of the population can’t be bothered to have sex out of sheer mistrust of the other sex.

    Is there any evidence that is what is (not) happening?

    If you mean the figures, there’s plenty of news articles out there with the numbers.

    If you mean the cause, a short look at the Japanese internet and you’ll find plenty of Japanese men telling you exactly that. Women are too much trouble, cost too much money, and can’t be trusted, so why would anyone bother to start a relationship, let alone a family.

    • Replies: @mukat

    If you mean the cause, a short look at the Japanese internet and you’ll find plenty of Japanese men telling you exactly that. Women are too much trouble, cost too much money, and can’t be trusted, so why would anyone bother to start a relationship, let alone a family.
     
    Horseshit.

    Starting in the mid-90s, Japan Inc. cut way back on new salarymen (lifetime commitment) and started using contingent labor more. Many women view salarymen as the only fit mates, thus far later marriages if at all.

    Filial piety means that adult children can stay home forever if unmarried.
    , @Opinionator
    I meant both. Thanks for the perspective.
  132. @George
    "As I never tire to point out median US wages, adjusted for inflation, are no higher now than in 1972. 1972 is an awfully long time ago now.

    You’re never tiring to point out something that’s misleading."

    How is that misleading?

    A much larger percentage of jobs now pay salaries instead of an hourly wage, and salaries have increased substantially, moreover, certain high-pay jobs (nurse, engineer, pilot and so on) that were often hourly wage positions in 1972 are nowadays universally salaried positions.

  133. Long-time reader but this is the first time I have felt moved to comment. I have lived in central Tokyo for 20 years. Used to be that I would go all day without seeing another foreigner except the financial-industry expats I work with. In just the last 2 years this has started to change in an eerily familiar pattern:

    — Most of the clerks working at convenience stores in my neighborhood are now Vietnamese or Chinese. Local supermarket now has three Iranian cashiers.

    — Two days ago a construction crew arrived to work on the building next door. One of them is Sri Lankan and another is Nigerian. I stopped to talk to them. Nice guys, seem to get along with their Japanese coworkers.

    Previously, these positions would all have been filled by Japanese nationals.

    Here’s a rare critical-ish article about the recent wave of immigration (in Japanese, partially paywalled): http://www.asahi.com/articles/ASK6M7KFYK6MUCLV01S.html

    The total number of foreigners working in Japan is now well over one million and many of them, as the article points out, are low-wage workers who have been smuggled in as “trainees.” This problem has existed for some time, but now seems to be getting much worse, very fast.

    Why? Well, the Japanese unemployment rate is now the lowest it’s been since 1994, and as everyone knows, wages cannot be raised or capitalism would cease to function. Japan is by no means an exception to this rule.

    • Replies: @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    If you're serious about Japan's low unemployment levels, then it isn't a worker shortage that businesses over there face. What is the problem?

    Again I ask, is immigration an election issue in Japan? If so, how do the voters vote on the issue? Would think the government would crack down on allowing willy-nilly out of control levels of immigration to rise.

    I suppose all it would really take for them to come to their senses would be an attack along the likes of Manchester, or Paris (Charlie Hebdo), or Orlando.

    There's still time for them to come to their senses.

    , @Chrisnonymous
    I've lived in Japan for just a fraction of the time you have, but I've noticed a change just in the short time I've been here--Indian restaurants popping up, and South Asians bicycling around going who-knows-where and doing who-knows-what.

    One thing I can say is that almost all the white people I know in Japan take some sort of interest in traditional Japanese culture, such that they are supporting the arts financially, even if in a small way. OTOH, I have never met an African, Middle-Easterner, or South Asian who has any interest in Japan except for what they can make off it. However, we're reaching a point where Japanese people are starting to employ western-style crimestop that prevents them from noticing such things.
  134. @White Guy In Japan
    The Turkish and Japanese governments have a friendly relationship due to some historical co-operation.
    They serve no real need tbh.

    Nearly non-existent in ancient times. WW2, perhaps? Which side was Turkey on in WW2?

    It boggles the mind that 3500 Turks for no apparent reason decided to trek eastward to the island nation a la “Yep, we’ll make our abode here!” Why? They don’t have any historical legitimacy to living in Japan, period. The Turkish and Japanese languages aren’t related in any sense of the word, and one nation is Islamic while the other is Shinto/Buddhist. After all, if Japan could throw out/strongly advise that Brazilians return back to Brazil (and those at least had some DNA tie to Japan), it should go without saying that they should stop accepting Turks.

    Is immigration ever an election issue? As in, do voters want more of it, or do they want the government to restrict it even more?

  135. @Tokyo Resident
    Long-time reader but this is the first time I have felt moved to comment. I have lived in central Tokyo for 20 years. Used to be that I would go all day without seeing another foreigner except the financial-industry expats I work with. In just the last 2 years this has started to change in an eerily familiar pattern:

    -- Most of the clerks working at convenience stores in my neighborhood are now Vietnamese or Chinese. Local supermarket now has three Iranian cashiers.

    -- Two days ago a construction crew arrived to work on the building next door. One of them is Sri Lankan and another is Nigerian. I stopped to talk to them. Nice guys, seem to get along with their Japanese coworkers.

    Previously, these positions would all have been filled by Japanese nationals.

    Here’s a rare critical-ish article about the recent wave of immigration (in Japanese, partially paywalled): http://www.asahi.com/articles/ASK6M7KFYK6MUCLV01S.html

    The total number of foreigners working in Japan is now well over one million and many of them, as the article points out, are low-wage workers who have been smuggled in as "trainees." This problem has existed for some time, but now seems to be getting much worse, very fast.

    Why? Well, the Japanese unemployment rate is now the lowest it's been since 1994, and as everyone knows, wages cannot be raised or capitalism would cease to function. Japan is by no means an exception to this rule.

    If you’re serious about Japan’s low unemployment levels, then it isn’t a worker shortage that businesses over there face. What is the problem?

    Again I ask, is immigration an election issue in Japan? If so, how do the voters vote on the issue? Would think the government would crack down on allowing willy-nilly out of control levels of immigration to rise.

    I suppose all it would really take for them to come to their senses would be an attack along the likes of Manchester, or Paris (Charlie Hebdo), or Orlando.

    There’s still time for them to come to their senses.

    • Replies: @Chrisnonymous

    Again I ask, is immigration an election issue in Japan? If so, how do the voters vote on the issue?
     
    As far as I can tell, it's not an election issue now. It is something in the back of people's minds, I believe. From talking to people, my sense is that many are torn between not being comfortable with an influx of foreigners and feeling that they ought to be comfortable with it.

    Would think the government would crack down on allowing willy-nilly out of control levels of immigration to rise.
     
    I suspect the Abe government wants it both ways--as in the minor scandal over the suggestion that foreigners should be segregated--import foreigners to work, but keep them from integrating into society.

    It's not a bad idea, really. The workers that Tokyo Resident refers to, having been brought in as "trainees", should theoretically be sent back after some time. As long as the Japanese are consistent about turning over the foreign workforce so it doesn't settle down, it could work out. Of course, whether they can really keep getting people to leave is another question.

    BTW, from that article, germane to this post:

    Sono, who was appointed by Prime Minister Shinzo Abe to an education reform panel in 2013, cited an unspecified whites-only apartment complex in Johannesburg that black South Africans moved into after apartheid ended. She said there was a problem because black people tended to bring large families into small apartments.

    “Black people basically have a philosophy of large families. Therefore, they would bring their families into the apartment they bought. For whites and Asians, it was common sense for a couple and two children to live in one complex. But blacks ended up having 20 to 30 family members living there,” she wrote.

    Sono went on to say that with so many people in such a small space, the water quickly ran out and the white people were forced to leave.”
     
  136. @Frau Katze
    I am not an anti-Semite at all, I have argued against it many times here.

    But we cannot forever go on associating everything connected with Nazis as if it were tainted, ritually unclean forever,

    For example, in the 1930s Germans first showed that smoking caused lung cancer.

    After the war, Big Tobacco made excellent use of saying, "Well that data was collected under the Nazis. You're going to believe that?"

    I read a long history of tobacco and the Nazi thing bought them a few more years (and more than a few lung cancer deaths).

    I'd like to see other examples besides Nazis.

    I remember reading the same thing about smoking. Actually the Germans starting researching the cause with lung cancer after WW1, ca.1920, and I believe they published their preliminary findings ca.1929. This helped set the work later done by other nations on smoking-lung cancer association.
    As the research was begun and the findings were pretty much published before the Nazis took power, technically it wasn’t Nazism per se, but the point is well taken. There’s no cause and effect that anti-smoking equals Nazis.

  137. @Anonymous
    It's not "simple arithmetic" though. It's economic growth that pays for things like housing, not "simple arithmetic." That's why people in the Dust Bowl lived in crummy shacks despite America in general, and the Dust Bowl in particular, at the time being much lower in population.

    Encouraging immigration because of a fetish for ‘Economic growth’ means everyone will be living in crummy shacks except for the powers that be. Just look at New York

    It is our technological advance that has led to many new & incredible comforts, but just let in unskilled immigration and that will disappear. Imagine if Japan was populated by a low iq population.

  138. There must have been a lot of Mexican immigrants who built all of it. It’s just that they are hiding

  139. @White Guy In Japan
    The Japanese typically work long hours and are rather low-T people. Combine this with social/cultural demands on each other (they are quite risk averse) and some young adults opt out of sex/relationships. Women can go shopping with their friends and men can watch anime.

    Lots of pornography and prostitution around here.

    (For the record, I have never suffered from celibacy in Japan.)

    If Japanese are such low T people, how Come they conquered almost entire South East Asia 2 million square miles in 6-months during WWII?

    May be you are low T and projecting.

    Also, Japan still produces almost 1-million babies/year, almost all of whom are Japanese. This is more than the combined births of all German and English white babies.

    Remember, until WWI Japan population was same as Germany. So Japanese are doing very well even demographically. Their land is same size as Germany. But double the babies/year.

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh

    If Japanese are such low T people, how Come they conquered almost entire South East Asia 2 million square miles in 6-months during WWII?
     
    Well, the obvious answer is that T levels aren't exactly directly correlated with battlefield success. This doesn't mean that it doesn't have other effects overall on a societal level.

    At any rate, there is much to admire about Japan's ability to resist the poz while still maintaining fairly high levels of integration in the world economy. Doing both is tricky.
    , @Joe Schmoe
    You are telling it like it is, brother. Japan is winning a quiet victory. How appropriate. Instead of the drama queens of the NYTimes crowd and all the charm of "high T" rappers, we see the dignified refinement of the Japanese. They should be seen as the true picture of success. Taking care of their own and owning what they take care of. Rather than the absurd growth model of economics, they are quietly defining the new quality model of success. Best to them. They do a great service to the world by simply showing how it is done. As my mother always assured me, living well is the best revenge.
  140. @Opinionator
    Uh, what cause and effect phenomenon are you referring to?

    It’s no use to speculate against the Yen – and the stock-market is not volatile (=a bore=stable): Economic stability offers no opportunity for fast money. Bad news for Hedgefonds attacks and: – No country for old Soros (and the like) man.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman

    No country for old Soros (and the like) man.
     
    I like that one! (well, your whole comment, in fact.)
    , @Opinionator
    Thanks
  141. @PiltdownMan
    A stable economy is a nightmare for Wall St. – and other kinds of speculators. The more the WSJ complains about Japan, the better for the Japanese.

    For my humble mind it is hardly believable, that such simple cause and effect phenomenons are not well understood – and communicated worldwide. And not taught in schools etc.

    Surely the fault lies in the modern economics profession, which bangs the drum of constant economic growth incessantly although it has the analytical tools to specify and manage steady state policy options or even decreasing population scenarios in great detail. People like Larry Summers and Paul Krugman are more than up to the task, intellectually, but they never go there. The last prominent economist to contemplate a steady state with modern high productivity as a thought experiment was Keynes.

    Krugman seems to be absorbed by the bubble-thinking of the functional elite (=Davos). This state of mind threatens your way of thinking up to the point, where your thoughts look plain dumb from the perspective of ordinary people.
    Genius Friedman kinda grapped a hold of this dynamic recently by stating, that “normal is over” in the NYT.
    Just like Krugman, he has the solution for everybody: Just become extraordinarily smart! – The simple question they can’t answer: What happens to the outsmarted?

  142. @spandrell
    If you mean the figures, there's plenty of news articles out there with the numbers.

    If you mean the cause, a short look at the Japanese internet and you'll find plenty of Japanese men telling you exactly that. Women are too much trouble, cost too much money, and can't be trusted, so why would anyone bother to start a relationship, let alone a family.

    If you mean the cause, a short look at the Japanese internet and you’ll find plenty of Japanese men telling you exactly that. Women are too much trouble, cost too much money, and can’t be trusted, so why would anyone bother to start a relationship, let alone a family.

    Horseshit.

    Starting in the mid-90s, Japan Inc. cut way back on new salarymen (lifetime commitment) and started using contingent labor more. Many women view salarymen as the only fit mates, thus far later marriages if at all.

    Filial piety means that adult children can stay home forever if unmarried.

  143. @White Guy In Japan
    The Japanese typically work long hours and are rather low-T people. Combine this with social/cultural demands on each other (they are quite risk averse) and some young adults opt out of sex/relationships. Women can go shopping with their friends and men can watch anime.

    Lots of pornography and prostitution around here.

    (For the record, I have never suffered from celibacy in Japan.)

    Marry a Japanese woman, and you will know celibacy. After that you can do as the Japanese men do (the same ones you mock today), and go whoring.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    I nailed a LOT of Japanese girls in Chicago and New York in the eighties. I'm astonished they lose interest in sex after marriage.
  144. @res
    It is interesting to compare the median/mean net wealth for different countries. From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_wealth_per_adult
    Japan $110k/$217k
    US $45k/$301k
    That says a great deal. Then there is the debt also shown (not counted in wealth IIUC?) in that table. I wonder how that is distributed among the above/below median wealth group?

    I would not have guessed Australia had the highest median wealth in the OECD at $220k.

    The Welsh resorted to the Ted Nugent solution when Londoners bought up all the cottages. “If the house gets in my way, baby, you know, I’ll burn it down.”

    Top that, Chrissie.

  145. @mukat
    Marry a Japanese woman, and you will know celibacy. After that you can do as the Japanese men do (the same ones you mock today), and go whoring.

    I nailed a LOT of Japanese girls in Chicago and New York in the eighties. I’m astonished they lose interest in sex after marriage.

  146. @Frau Katze
    I am not an anti-Semite at all, I have argued against it many times here.

    But we cannot forever go on associating everything connected with Nazis as if it were tainted, ritually unclean forever,

    For example, in the 1930s Germans first showed that smoking caused lung cancer.

    After the war, Big Tobacco made excellent use of saying, "Well that data was collected under the Nazis. You're going to believe that?"

    I read a long history of tobacco and the Nazi thing bought them a few more years (and more than a few lung cancer deaths).

    I'd like to see other examples besides Nazis.

    I’d like to see other examples besides Nazis.

    Frau Katze, the next, or maybe first, to bring up should be the Bolsheviks/Soviets and the Red Chinese.

    “Hey, what’s this TSA groping business, what is this Soviet Russia?” Why don’t you ever hear that. I’ll tell you why – because they don’t want to disrespect Communism, because it’s a good system, the Russians and the Chinese, and the Cubans* just did it wrong! They had the wrong guy(s) in charge, that’s all. Ask Bernie Sanders supporters – “we just need to run it the RIGHT way with the RIGHT people, like some of us here!”

    * … oh, and the Cambodians, … and Ho Chi Min, …. and the Angolan …. Shining Path folks in Peru, … and a few more Commies down in Argentina and elsewhere in S. America …..

    …. oh, yeah, and in El Salvador … and Albania …

    Well, of course, Communism is a great system and it goes without saying that it was implemented wrong in Russia, China, Cuba, Cambodia, VietNam, Angola, Peru, Argentina, El Salvador, and Albania. Other than that “What has the Free World ever done for us?!”</b?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uvPbj9NX0zc

    • Replies: @Dieter Kief
    Don't you please forget the German Democratic Republic.

    Cases like that should social psychologists make envious. Those are the biggest, and best documented, behavioural experiments ever.
  147. @Dieter Kief
    It's no use to speculate against the Yen - and the stock-market is not volatile (=a bore=stable): Economic stability offers no opportunity for fast money. Bad news for Hedgefonds attacks and: - No country for old Soros (and the like) man.

    No country for old Soros (and the like) man.

    I like that one! (well, your whole comment, in fact.)

  148. @szopen
    Recently I have problem reading Unz site: in Steve's entries, I see only pirt part of the paragraphs, e.g. I see:

    Here in America, we constantly hear about how awful the Japanese economy is, but that’
    anything for Wall Street since the giant Bubble popped around 1990. But, the Japanese e
    has been fairly successful for the Japanese.


    However, when I mark it and copy, I see everything:


    Here in America, we constantly hear about how awful the Japanese economy is, but that’s largely because it hasn’t done much of anything for Wall Street since the giant Bubble popped around 1990. But, the Japanese economy has been fairly successful for the Japanese.
     
    I am using mozilla firefox 45.0 for Open Suse Leap

    Same here, Szopen, on my older firefox version. It’s some kind of layering problem, and it just started about 2 days back. You can copy and paste it, as all the text has been sent, but the right frame/layer/whatever hides the right side of it. Annoying [tweet] [tweet]

  149. @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    My brother just returned from a business trip to Tokyo, he was there for about two weeks. Everyone is well aware that Tokyo's a high cost of living city, and that housing prices are high. He was told that in some parts of the city, apartments go for as little as 400sq feet living space. That's basically a cell block.

    So regarding cost of living, basically Tokyo is equivalent to NY. Wonder if you can rent a 400sq. foot apartment in New York, and if so, what would be the cost?

    Wonder if the other major cities in Japan have that cost of living, or if housing in Osaka and Kobe go for much less?

    .. 400sq feet living space. That’s basically a cell block.

    No, I have lived in 300 ft^2, albeit only on the 2nd floor of a small 2-story bldg, and it was fine, really. It included a bathroom and full fridge and stove. This was me as a single guy. It was a really nice place, and I didn’t end up digging through the wall behind my Raquel Welch poster to try to get out. What was good is that I didn’t accumulate too much stuff (I had all the toys somewhere else!)

  150. @Achmed E. Newman
    No offense intended, of course. It was a typo or just plain misspelling. So Steve started that stuff .... Zerohedge could really use a guy like you, Steve ( from the comments anyway, it seems like they'd both like you and be able to learn something.)

    No, of course not. I thought it was funny. LOL on this end. Cheers mate!

  151. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Anonymous
    It's not "simple arithmetic" though. It's economic growth that pays for things like housing, not "simple arithmetic." That's why people in the Dust Bowl lived in crummy shacks despite America in general, and the Dust Bowl in particular, at the time being much lower in population.

    Well, apparently, some posters here have trouble with the concept that two plus two equals four.
    Look, if I share out ten oranges amongst two people, then they’d have more oranges per capita than if I shared them out amongst five people.

    There is no correlation between ‘population growth’ and ‘economic growth’ despite what certain people say. If it were true, Mali would be the richest – and best housed – nation on earth.
    There is, however, a correlation between housing density and the number of people wishing to be housed.

  152. @Anonymous
    It's not "simple arithmetic" though. It's economic growth that pays for things like housing, not "simple arithmetic." That's why people in the Dust Bowl lived in crummy shacks despite America in general, and the Dust Bowl in particular, at the time being much lower in population.

    It’s economic growth that pays for things like housing, not “simple arithmetic.”

    Define meaningful “economic growth”. This is the real problem isn’t it? We have this useless stat called GDP that goes up when I buy a Chinese made item.

    Using the Dust Bowl period isn’t a valid comparison either. People working the mines were living in company owned housing that wasn’t particularly well built and factory workers in the cities were living in crowded rented tenements.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Anyhow, years ago farmers typically built their own houses to their own requirements, big or small or added to as the years went on.
    The limiting factors being surplus income, spare time, skill level and calling on specialist help when needed.
  153. @Johann Ricke

    Their per worker GDP largely kept its ground.
     
    Japan's number went from 77% of the US number in 1991, 64% in 2016. So yes, Japan's growth has, in fact, been anemic.

    The real issue is that its productive population drop has taken nominal GDP per capita from its peak of 151% of the US number in 1995, to 68% of that number, as of 2016. That gives a much better idea of the impact of smaller numbers of young people entering the workforce on fiscal solvency. This is why Japan has kept raising tax rates while ballooning its government debt - its welfare state expenditures cannot be funded on the basis of the old tax rates, but even higher tax rates aren't slowing down the rate of debt accumulation. New taxpayers are shrinking in number, even as the ranks of pensioners reliant on welfare state promises for both income and medical care steadily increase.

    GDP can and is often fudged, and the metrics do not correlate well to quality of life for the average citizen.

  154. anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Kyle McKenna
    There's nothing wrong with Japan that can't be fixed with a few hundred million Africans, Chinese, Latinos, Indians, etc etc.

    I personally resent the notion that the Japanese--with one of the world's highest standards of living and a notoriously safe, clean, and civil society--shouldn't be required to join in the fun that the world's (previously) white nations are having.

    Japan is thought to be a very xenophobic nation, suspicious of foreigners and foreign culture (just ask St. Francis Xavier) but as we have seen over the centuries they will not hesitate to embrace certain aspects of foreign culture so long as it serves their needs. Thus far, they have managed to retain their ethnic and cultural identity. But this cannot happen absent arguably the most rigid immigration laws on earth. Good for them!

    • Replies: @Olorin
    FWIW, Japan loves them some Finland.

    I learned this at an anime store off Union Square in SF in the maybe late '90s. They had all these anime tchotchkes. There in the middle of the Hello Kitty and such was a bunch of Moomin stuff, which I had never seen outside of specifically Finnish cultural events/places/shops.

    Went in to ask about it--and the tiny girl working the counter said, "Oh in Japan we LOVE Moomin! Finland too!" She showed me to their shelves of Moomin comics and videos and dolls and plates and ornaments, then gave me some search terms for "Finnish villages built in Japan."

    I forget what they were now, but they must be among the Japan/Finland friendship societies on this list:

    http://www.finland.or.jp/public/default.aspx?nodeid=41307&

    I don't recall her mentioning the Japan Finland Society for Prevention of Caries. :D

  155. @MarkinLA
    It’s economic growth that pays for things like housing, not “simple arithmetic.”

    Define meaningful "economic growth". This is the real problem isn't it? We have this useless stat called GDP that goes up when I buy a Chinese made item.

    Using the Dust Bowl period isn't a valid comparison either. People working the mines were living in company owned housing that wasn't particularly well built and factory workers in the cities were living in crowded rented tenements.

    Anyhow, years ago farmers typically built their own houses to their own requirements, big or small or added to as the years went on.
    The limiting factors being surplus income, spare time, skill level and calling on specialist help when needed.

  156. @Low T Japan
    If Japanese are such low T people, how Come they conquered almost entire South East Asia 2 million square miles in 6-months during WWII?

    May be you are low T and projecting.

    Also, Japan still produces almost 1-million babies/year, almost all of whom are Japanese. This is more than the combined births of all German and English white babies.

    Remember, until WWI Japan population was same as Germany. So Japanese are doing very well even demographically. Their land is same size as Germany. But double the babies/year.

    If Japanese are such low T people, how Come they conquered almost entire South East Asia 2 million square miles in 6-months during WWII?

    Well, the obvious answer is that T levels aren’t exactly directly correlated with battlefield success. This doesn’t mean that it doesn’t have other effects overall on a societal level.

    At any rate, there is much to admire about Japan’s ability to resist the poz while still maintaining fairly high levels of integration in the world economy. Doing both is tricky.

    • Replies: @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    Regarding Japan's ability to (so far) escape the Eye of Soros, on this particular issue, I think Steve may have called it. The world's language of trade, commerce, business, culture, etc. is English. Japan doesn't use a Western alphabet, nor is Japanese much spoken outside Japan. It's a feature not a bug of the system and they're content to keep it that way. The true Hermit Kingdom isn't Korea it's Japan. Now if suddenly 1-2 billion folks were learning Japanese and writing their character symbols for written communication, then they'd encounter some difficulties and face pressure to open their markets more than they already have. Instead they get to slip under the radar unnoticed. And also, they're not white.

    There is a lot to this noticing, after all.
  157. @Daniel Chieh

    If Japanese are such low T people, how Come they conquered almost entire South East Asia 2 million square miles in 6-months during WWII?
     
    Well, the obvious answer is that T levels aren't exactly directly correlated with battlefield success. This doesn't mean that it doesn't have other effects overall on a societal level.

    At any rate, there is much to admire about Japan's ability to resist the poz while still maintaining fairly high levels of integration in the world economy. Doing both is tricky.

    Regarding Japan’s ability to (so far) escape the Eye of Soros, on this particular issue, I think Steve may have called it. The world’s language of trade, commerce, business, culture, etc. is English. Japan doesn’t use a Western alphabet, nor is Japanese much spoken outside Japan. It’s a feature not a bug of the system and they’re content to keep it that way. The true Hermit Kingdom isn’t Korea it’s Japan. Now if suddenly 1-2 billion folks were learning Japanese and writing their character symbols for written communication, then they’d encounter some difficulties and face pressure to open their markets more than they already have. Instead they get to slip under the radar unnoticed. And also, they’re not white.

    There is a lot to this noticing, after all.

  158. @Jack Hanson
    OT:

    Eeyores and libs (but I repeat myself) BTFO yet again as Travel Ban affirmed 9-0.

    Tell me how Gorsuch was the biggest cuck ever cause he's Episcopolian. Tell me how Trump won't defend the ban because he's "sold us out".

    Tell me how you need your daddy Hanson, he of the rippling biceps, to tell you how wrong you are. Yet. Again.

    Yeah, a single vote in a 9-0 decision gives us a lot of info on Gorsuch. LOL.

    • Replies: @res
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2017/06/23/justice-gorsuchs-first-opinions-reveal-a-confident-textualist/
    , @Jack Hanson
    Yeah you're right. He just sprang unformed from the ether without a long list of legal opinions that consistently show a strict Originalist.

    Do you ever tire of living on your belly, digging your face into the ground so you don't have to even think about standing up like a man?
  159. @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    If you're serious about Japan's low unemployment levels, then it isn't a worker shortage that businesses over there face. What is the problem?

    Again I ask, is immigration an election issue in Japan? If so, how do the voters vote on the issue? Would think the government would crack down on allowing willy-nilly out of control levels of immigration to rise.

    I suppose all it would really take for them to come to their senses would be an attack along the likes of Manchester, or Paris (Charlie Hebdo), or Orlando.

    There's still time for them to come to their senses.

    Again I ask, is immigration an election issue in Japan? If so, how do the voters vote on the issue?

    As far as I can tell, it’s not an election issue now. It is something in the back of people’s minds, I believe. From talking to people, my sense is that many are torn between not being comfortable with an influx of foreigners and feeling that they ought to be comfortable with it.

    Would think the government would crack down on allowing willy-nilly out of control levels of immigration to rise.

    I suspect the Abe government wants it both ways–as in the minor scandal over the suggestion that foreigners should be segregated–import foreigners to work, but keep them from integrating into society.

    It’s not a bad idea, really. The workers that Tokyo Resident refers to, having been brought in as “trainees”, should theoretically be sent back after some time. As long as the Japanese are consistent about turning over the foreign workforce so it doesn’t settle down, it could work out. Of course, whether they can really keep getting people to leave is another question.

    BTW, from that article, germane to this post:

    Sono, who was appointed by Prime Minister Shinzo Abe to an education reform panel in 2013, cited an unspecified whites-only apartment complex in Johannesburg that black South Africans moved into after apartheid ended. She said there was a problem because black people tended to bring large families into small apartments.

    “Black people basically have a philosophy of large families. Therefore, they would bring their families into the apartment they bought. For whites and Asians, it was common sense for a couple and two children to live in one complex. But blacks ended up having 20 to 30 family members living there,” she wrote.

    Sono went on to say that with so many people in such a small space, the water quickly ran out and the white people were forced to leave.”

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh

    As far as I can tell, it’s not an election issue now. It is something in the back of people’s minds, I believe. From talking to people, my sense is that many are torn between not being comfortable with an influx of foreigners and feeling that they ought to be comfortable with it.
     
    From what I'm seeing is that the Japanese public opinion seeks to distinguish "contributing immigrants" from "economic migrants." Opinion on contributing immigrants is divided, but there's no patience for "economic migrants," probably though a perspective that the current social welfare system is heavily stressed already.

    However, we’re reaching a point where Japanese people are starting to employ western-style crimestop that prevents them from noticing such things.
     
    In the long run, the poz always wins, it does seem like.
    , @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    But this isn't fully dealing with the main question: Why are foreign workers being brought into Japan at all? Is Japan digesting the motto 'Foreigners will do the work that native born workers won't?"

    Really? Seriously?

    Where's Jared Taylor when you need him to comment on something pertaining to Japan? He was raised in Japan, speaks the language fluently, and may be able to provide some insight into this potential rising problem of importing foreign workers to Japan.
  160. @Tokyo Resident
    Long-time reader but this is the first time I have felt moved to comment. I have lived in central Tokyo for 20 years. Used to be that I would go all day without seeing another foreigner except the financial-industry expats I work with. In just the last 2 years this has started to change in an eerily familiar pattern:

    -- Most of the clerks working at convenience stores in my neighborhood are now Vietnamese or Chinese. Local supermarket now has three Iranian cashiers.

    -- Two days ago a construction crew arrived to work on the building next door. One of them is Sri Lankan and another is Nigerian. I stopped to talk to them. Nice guys, seem to get along with their Japanese coworkers.

    Previously, these positions would all have been filled by Japanese nationals.

    Here’s a rare critical-ish article about the recent wave of immigration (in Japanese, partially paywalled): http://www.asahi.com/articles/ASK6M7KFYK6MUCLV01S.html

    The total number of foreigners working in Japan is now well over one million and many of them, as the article points out, are low-wage workers who have been smuggled in as "trainees." This problem has existed for some time, but now seems to be getting much worse, very fast.

    Why? Well, the Japanese unemployment rate is now the lowest it's been since 1994, and as everyone knows, wages cannot be raised or capitalism would cease to function. Japan is by no means an exception to this rule.

    I’ve lived in Japan for just a fraction of the time you have, but I’ve noticed a change just in the short time I’ve been here–Indian restaurants popping up, and South Asians bicycling around going who-knows-where and doing who-knows-what.

    One thing I can say is that almost all the white people I know in Japan take some sort of interest in traditional Japanese culture, such that they are supporting the arts financially, even if in a small way. OTOH, I have never met an African, Middle-Easterner, or South Asian who has any interest in Japan except for what they can make off it. However, we’re reaching a point where Japanese people are starting to employ western-style crimestop that prevents them from noticing such things.

    • Replies: @MIGHTY EDAR
    I know why you guys have so called interest in asian cultures ,the women pure and simple ,at least the dark haired peoples intention is just there to make money unlike your dishonorable intention .Asians have more in common with dark haired people than with whites.
    , @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    The question remains: Why are diverse nations migrating to Japan of all places? They have zero commonality with the ethnicity, the heritage, the language, etc. As one pointed out here, Japan has low unemployment levels so it's not a shortage of workers that's the problem. Unless some businesses no longer want to pay the benefts, pensions, medical, etc that may be attached to hiring native born workers there.

    It doesn't add up nor make any sense why someone from the Middle East would feel entitled to migrate to Japan, a nation which has no direct historical connection to that region whatsoever. Same would go for India and Africa.

    Why would the government be letting them in now, when for centuries before they didn't?
  161. @2Mintzin1
    Being a small brained basque british, I didn't know a person could type in a strait jacket.
    Live and learn.

    If you put a billion monkeys in front of a billion keyboards long enough…

  162. @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    My brother just returned from a business trip to Tokyo, he was there for about two weeks. Everyone is well aware that Tokyo's a high cost of living city, and that housing prices are high. He was told that in some parts of the city, apartments go for as little as 400sq feet living space. That's basically a cell block.

    So regarding cost of living, basically Tokyo is equivalent to NY. Wonder if you can rent a 400sq. foot apartment in New York, and if so, what would be the cost?

    Wonder if the other major cities in Japan have that cost of living, or if housing in Osaka and Kobe go for much less?

    Yes, in New York I had a 425 square foot one bedroom for $1500 per month in a neighborhood in the early-to-mid stages of gentrifying.

  163. But, the Japanese economy has been fairly successful for the Japanese.

    I’m still not sure how their current 250% debt-to-gdp ratio isn’t a disaster in the long run. How do you get out from underneath something like that?

    • Replies: @Dieter Kief
    Thats no problem as long as people trust the system. The crucial point would be reached, if the employment rate would decline (but it is in a phantastic shape, actually), or if the industry would run out of capital - which ins't to be seen anywhere in Japan, because people earn enough money and lead a reasonable enough life to make savingss possible and: They do bring their money to Japanese banks because, you know: They - trust their system (or you could say: They trust their Nation (=their traditions).

    All in all: The Japanese state of affairs seems to be good.

    And this might sound even worse, than it really is.

  164. @spandrell
    That's exactly it. The western press speaks to plutocrats, and Japan indeed is a horrible place to invest.

    That said, Japanese wages remain stagnant, purchasing power is down due to raising withholding taxes to pay for Medicare, so Japanese living standards aren't exactly rising.

    Stagnant wages don’t matter if their inflation rate is also stagnant, which it pretty much is, right now:

    https://tradingeconomics.com/japan/inflation-cpi

  165. @Chrisnonymous
    I've lived in Japan for just a fraction of the time you have, but I've noticed a change just in the short time I've been here--Indian restaurants popping up, and South Asians bicycling around going who-knows-where and doing who-knows-what.

    One thing I can say is that almost all the white people I know in Japan take some sort of interest in traditional Japanese culture, such that they are supporting the arts financially, even if in a small way. OTOH, I have never met an African, Middle-Easterner, or South Asian who has any interest in Japan except for what they can make off it. However, we're reaching a point where Japanese people are starting to employ western-style crimestop that prevents them from noticing such things.

    I know why you guys have so called interest in asian cultures ,the women pure and simple ,at least the dark haired peoples intention is just there to make money unlike your dishonorable intention .Asians have more in common with dark haired people than with whites.

    • Troll: Chrisnonymous
    • Replies: @anonymous
    Despite the troll line of thought, it still has a point. White people of american and european nations are just trying the easiest way out of their troubles by going to developed non-white nations that have accepted much of the western culture, but stayed homogeneous in their own ways. There they believe they will be exception for their "interest in the culture", "educated background" and "ethnic respect" for others.
    Or in the case of Latin America for retirees, despite all the troubles there, there are enclaves or common cities where they can live off well among many others like them and the government won't trouble their stay. Living in a hot country, but choosing the warmest region. Employing locals to tend them thinking they are naturally generous and taking advantage of their pension and Medicare/Medicaid-like systems while complaining of the same things in the US.
    I don't think whites have much to complain from non-whites on that, even if they affirm they are just taking advantage from non-white nations like the non-whites are taking advantage from white nations. It was not non-whites that started the "Invade the World, Invite the World" actions, not even supporting corruption of already corrupted and dysfunctional politicians of non-developed countries towards their interests, also championing them as examples of diversity from one side while showing contempt from the other.
  166. @Chrisnonymous

    Again I ask, is immigration an election issue in Japan? If so, how do the voters vote on the issue?
     
    As far as I can tell, it's not an election issue now. It is something in the back of people's minds, I believe. From talking to people, my sense is that many are torn between not being comfortable with an influx of foreigners and feeling that they ought to be comfortable with it.

    Would think the government would crack down on allowing willy-nilly out of control levels of immigration to rise.
     
    I suspect the Abe government wants it both ways--as in the minor scandal over the suggestion that foreigners should be segregated--import foreigners to work, but keep them from integrating into society.

    It's not a bad idea, really. The workers that Tokyo Resident refers to, having been brought in as "trainees", should theoretically be sent back after some time. As long as the Japanese are consistent about turning over the foreign workforce so it doesn't settle down, it could work out. Of course, whether they can really keep getting people to leave is another question.

    BTW, from that article, germane to this post:

    Sono, who was appointed by Prime Minister Shinzo Abe to an education reform panel in 2013, cited an unspecified whites-only apartment complex in Johannesburg that black South Africans moved into after apartheid ended. She said there was a problem because black people tended to bring large families into small apartments.

    “Black people basically have a philosophy of large families. Therefore, they would bring their families into the apartment they bought. For whites and Asians, it was common sense for a couple and two children to live in one complex. But blacks ended up having 20 to 30 family members living there,” she wrote.

    Sono went on to say that with so many people in such a small space, the water quickly ran out and the white people were forced to leave.”
     

    As far as I can tell, it’s not an election issue now. It is something in the back of people’s minds, I believe. From talking to people, my sense is that many are torn between not being comfortable with an influx of foreigners and feeling that they ought to be comfortable with it.

    From what I’m seeing is that the Japanese public opinion seeks to distinguish “contributing immigrants” from “economic migrants.” Opinion on contributing immigrants is divided, but there’s no patience for “economic migrants,” probably though a perspective that the current social welfare system is heavily stressed already.

    However, we’re reaching a point where Japanese people are starting to employ western-style crimestop that prevents them from noticing such things.

    In the long run, the poz always wins, it does seem like.

  167. @Chrisnonymous
    Yeah, a single vote in a 9-0 decision gives us a lot of info on Gorsuch. LOL.
    • Replies: @Dan Hayes
    res:

    Yes, Gorsuch would fit in quite comfortably in the Unz Review.
  168. @Citizen of a Silly Country
    True. Japan is facing a number of very difficult demographic/fiscal/economic problems.

    But, at the end of the day or should I say at the end of the century, Japan will still be Japanese. No matter the difficulties they face, they are simply economic in nature and will pass. Their problems are nowhere near existential. They are bumps in the road in the long history of the Japanese people.

    OTOH, Europeans and their diaspora in the West are rapidly losing our homelands to often violent, tribal invaders. We literally could cease to exist as a people in a century or two. At the very least, our descendants face trying to survive in a Brazil-like world where violence and poverty are the norm for the vast majority of people.

    In other words, Japan's problems are a joke compared to what we face.

    I agree.

    I recently spoke about Japan with a Swiss Historian, and when he ran out of arguments against Japanese politcs, he – in all earnestness – came up with: But don’t they have the kids who stay at home with their parents and don’t socialise except via the internet and don’t got to work?

    Hikikomori?

    – Yeah, he answered: This Hikikomori and anime stuff and all that!

    Sigh.

    People don’t seem to get the dimensions of the problems.

  169. @Chrisnonymous

    Again I ask, is immigration an election issue in Japan? If so, how do the voters vote on the issue?
     
    As far as I can tell, it's not an election issue now. It is something in the back of people's minds, I believe. From talking to people, my sense is that many are torn between not being comfortable with an influx of foreigners and feeling that they ought to be comfortable with it.

    Would think the government would crack down on allowing willy-nilly out of control levels of immigration to rise.
     
    I suspect the Abe government wants it both ways--as in the minor scandal over the suggestion that foreigners should be segregated--import foreigners to work, but keep them from integrating into society.

    It's not a bad idea, really. The workers that Tokyo Resident refers to, having been brought in as "trainees", should theoretically be sent back after some time. As long as the Japanese are consistent about turning over the foreign workforce so it doesn't settle down, it could work out. Of course, whether they can really keep getting people to leave is another question.

    BTW, from that article, germane to this post:

    Sono, who was appointed by Prime Minister Shinzo Abe to an education reform panel in 2013, cited an unspecified whites-only apartment complex in Johannesburg that black South Africans moved into after apartheid ended. She said there was a problem because black people tended to bring large families into small apartments.

    “Black people basically have a philosophy of large families. Therefore, they would bring their families into the apartment they bought. For whites and Asians, it was common sense for a couple and two children to live in one complex. But blacks ended up having 20 to 30 family members living there,” she wrote.

    Sono went on to say that with so many people in such a small space, the water quickly ran out and the white people were forced to leave.”
     

    But this isn’t fully dealing with the main question: Why are foreign workers being brought into Japan at all? Is Japan digesting the motto ‘Foreigners will do the work that native born workers won’t?”

    Really? Seriously?

    Where’s Jared Taylor when you need him to comment on something pertaining to Japan? He was raised in Japan, speaks the language fluently, and may be able to provide some insight into this potential rising problem of importing foreign workers to Japan.

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    Email him at AmRen?

    Anyway, my understanding is that its the same issue as anywhere else - some foreigners have reduced expectations for wages and living condition, and are willing to work at rates that natives wouldn't accept. And as the Japanese commentator mentioned, capitalism dies if you raise wages, so no one will be doing that. And furthermore, the Japanese collusion system is such that companies can't raise wages because that would undermine their community and lead to consequences for breaking trust.
    , @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    "And as the Japanese commentator mentioned, capitalism dies if you raise wages, so no one will be doing that. And furthermore, the Japanese collusion system is such that companies can’t raise wages because that would undermine their community and lead to consequences for breaking trust."

    That doesn't make any sense. If you LOWER wages, the cost of living falls for the middle and lower-middle classes, because they can't keep up with rising inflation/natural cost of living increases with each passing decade, etc. If anything, by gradually increasing wages you help stabilize the overall cost of living for the middle class. You can't pay a family of four the same wages (in real terms) that you did forty yrs ago.

    If you import foreign workers, that drives wages downward, which in turn harms the wages for the native born workers.

    Again, Japan did not resort to these types of business practices in the relative past, they tended to look out for their native born workers. What has changed that some businesses would be importing (for them) higher numbers of foreign workers? The nation has low unemployment, so adding more workers makes no sense at all. They're not needed. There's no labor shortage. Unless Japan's businesses want to drive down total wages which in turn lowers the standard of living for the middle class.

    I still think this will be a crucial election year issue if things continue over there and native born workers soon find themselves out of work due to foreign workers.
  170. @Chrisnonymous
    I've lived in Japan for just a fraction of the time you have, but I've noticed a change just in the short time I've been here--Indian restaurants popping up, and South Asians bicycling around going who-knows-where and doing who-knows-what.

    One thing I can say is that almost all the white people I know in Japan take some sort of interest in traditional Japanese culture, such that they are supporting the arts financially, even if in a small way. OTOH, I have never met an African, Middle-Easterner, or South Asian who has any interest in Japan except for what they can make off it. However, we're reaching a point where Japanese people are starting to employ western-style crimestop that prevents them from noticing such things.

    The question remains: Why are diverse nations migrating to Japan of all places? They have zero commonality with the ethnicity, the heritage, the language, etc. As one pointed out here, Japan has low unemployment levels so it’s not a shortage of workers that’s the problem. Unless some businesses no longer want to pay the benefts, pensions, medical, etc that may be attached to hiring native born workers there.

    It doesn’t add up nor make any sense why someone from the Middle East would feel entitled to migrate to Japan, a nation which has no direct historical connection to that region whatsoever. Same would go for India and Africa.

    Why would the government be letting them in now, when for centuries before they didn’t?

    • Replies: @anonymous
    The same obvious answer: to bring people that accepts low wages and are more likely to spend their low wages on things than even the japanese (face it, even if they are good at saving money, they still have the same knack towards materialism than other asians). Even if unemployment is low, there's no scruples to create more jobs just for people from the outside.
    While these Middle Eastern and South/Southeastern Asian immigrants are still at small numbers compared to other nations, it is very much noticeable in a nation that homogeneity was the rule.
    There are complaints of americans or europeans that strive to take permanent residence in Japan, to the point of learning the language and culture better than the japanese themselves, but they are rejected in favor of low skilled immigrants, be it temporary workers of some company or just you average economic migrant.
    The good point is, the government itself notices the population is well aware of changes. They try to make immigration look necessary or beneficial, to make opposition of it seems wrong, but they don't advance too much on this, the population simply do not want more people from outside, especially from troubled nations.
    There is no nation or people nowadays that's free from benefitting some ethnicity or race from entering borders. Of course, the rule for developed capitalistic countries is low skilled non-white people from anywhere that starves from cheap products, welfare and security, be them unemployed or jumping from job to job, even if they really promise to work hard to contribute and survive.
    , @Chrisnonymous
    Entitled's got nothing to do with it. Japan is simply very appealing on its merits, and foreigners are appealing to Japanese for being cheap and easy to control.
    , @PiltdownMan

    It doesn’t add up nor make any sense why someone from the Middle East would feel entitled to migrate to Japan, a nation which has no direct historical connection to that region whatsoever. Same would go for India and Africa.
     
    Gibsmedat mentality.
  171. @Frau Katze
    I am not an anti-Semite at all, I have argued against it many times here.

    But we cannot forever go on associating everything connected with Nazis as if it were tainted, ritually unclean forever,

    For example, in the 1930s Germans first showed that smoking caused lung cancer.

    After the war, Big Tobacco made excellent use of saying, "Well that data was collected under the Nazis. You're going to believe that?"

    I read a long history of tobacco and the Nazi thing bought them a few more years (and more than a few lung cancer deaths).

    I'd like to see other examples besides Nazis.

    The causes of the World Wars are complicated and dirty, and no party was a good actor. It’s hard to defend Germany (and others), but in my opinion you’re right to imply that the Goldhagen thesis is inaccurate. Just as not every German citizen was a monster, so not every German doctor was a “Mengele.”

  172. @Achmed E. Newman

    I’d like to see other examples besides Nazis.
     
    Frau Katze, the next, or maybe first, to bring up should be the Bolsheviks/Soviets and the Red Chinese.

    "Hey, what's this TSA groping business, what is this Soviet Russia?" Why don't you ever hear that. I'll tell you why - because they don't want to disrespect Communism, because it's a good system, the Russians and the Chinese, and the Cubans* just did it wrong! They had the wrong guy(s) in charge, that's all. Ask Bernie Sanders supporters - "we just need to run it the RIGHT way with the RIGHT people, like some of us here!"


    * ... oh, and the Cambodians, ... and Ho Chi Min, .... and the Angolan .... Shining Path folks in Peru, ... and a few more Commies down in Argentina and elsewhere in S. America .....

    .... oh, yeah, and in El Salvador ... and Albania ...

    Well, of course, Communism is a great system and it goes without saying that it was implemented wrong in Russia, China, Cuba, Cambodia, VietNam, Angola, Peru, Argentina, El Salvador, and Albania. Other than that "What has the Free World ever done for us?!"</b?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uvPbj9NX0zc

    Don’t you please forget the German Democratic Republic.

    Cases like that should social psychologists make envious. Those are the biggest, and best documented, behavioural experiments ever.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
    Yeah, Dieter, I didn't forget East Germany, but I would say the whole Eastern European side of the Iron Curtain had Communism forced on them from outside, so I just didn't lump it in with the stupidity of the others. I don't mean your average Russian, Chinese, or Cuban had it forced on them either, but the "great new idea" of "lets go Communist - what's it gonna hurt" originated inside those places.

    I assume you have seen "The Lives of Others", Dieter - great movie. Imagine what these types of people can do for control of our lives now, with a whole lot more electronics.
  173. @Cloudbuster
    But, the Japanese economy has been fairly successful for the Japanese.

    I'm still not sure how their current 250% debt-to-gdp ratio isn't a disaster in the long run. How do you get out from underneath something like that?

    Thats no problem as long as people trust the system. The crucial point would be reached, if the employment rate would decline (but it is in a phantastic shape, actually), or if the industry would run out of capital – which ins’t to be seen anywhere in Japan, because people earn enough money and lead a reasonable enough life to make savingss possible and: They do bring their money to Japanese banks because, you know: They – trust their system (or you could say: They trust their Nation (=their traditions).

    All in all: The Japanese state of affairs seems to be good.

    And this might sound even worse, than it really is.

    • Replies: @Cloudbuster
    I'm not convinced. Entirely apart from individual wages and standards of living now, a debt that large is very difficult to pay off or inflate away. And though Japan has been pretty fiscally disciplined in government spending for the past six years, government restraint is rarely a good bet, and it's very easy for a debt like that to grow to eat the entire economy.
  174. @res
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2017/06/23/justice-gorsuchs-first-opinions-reveal-a-confident-textualist/

    res:

    Yes, Gorsuch would fit in quite comfortably in the Unz Review.

  175. @YetAnotherAnon
    "The real issue is that its productive population drop has taken nominal GDP per capita from its peak of 151% of the US number in 1995, to 68% of that number, as of 2016."

    Eamonn Fingleton of this parish has argued (in Forbes or the WSJ, I forget) that the Japanese are deliberately understating their GDP, something a Western globalist pol would find inexplicable.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/08/opinion/sunday/the-true-story-of-japans-economic-success.html

    Even Paul Krugman is a convert - quote from 2012

    "What we thought was that Japan was a cautionary tale. It has turned into Japan as almost a role model. They never had as big a slump as we have had. They managed to have growing per capita income through most of what we call their 'lost decade'. My running joke is that the group of us who were worried about Japan a dozen years ago ought to go to Tokyo and apologise to the emperor. We've done worse than they ever did. When people ask: might we become Japan? I say: I wish we could become Japan."
     
    https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2012/05/krugman-fingleton-and-japan/257716/

    Krugman calims “a” here (in the case of Japan) and “b” there (in the case of Greece). He seems to acknowledge the Japanese benefits in your very interesting Atlantic quote (thanks!), whereas he strongly opposes the idea, that Greek economy’s fault is homegrown (corruption, bad tax “system”, wrong paths in education, no industry, less and less agriculture).

  176. @LondonBob
    Japs recently bought the Financial Times so they won't be saying much at all about Japan, except the odd nice thing now and then.

    Japs recently bought the Financial Times so they won’t be saying much at all about Japan, except the odd nice thing now and then

    Smart move.

  177. @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    But this isn't fully dealing with the main question: Why are foreign workers being brought into Japan at all? Is Japan digesting the motto 'Foreigners will do the work that native born workers won't?"

    Really? Seriously?

    Where's Jared Taylor when you need him to comment on something pertaining to Japan? He was raised in Japan, speaks the language fluently, and may be able to provide some insight into this potential rising problem of importing foreign workers to Japan.

    Email him at AmRen?

    Anyway, my understanding is that its the same issue as anywhere else – some foreigners have reduced expectations for wages and living condition, and are willing to work at rates that natives wouldn’t accept. And as the Japanese commentator mentioned, capitalism dies if you raise wages, so no one will be doing that. And furthermore, the Japanese collusion system is such that companies can’t raise wages because that would undermine their community and lead to consequences for breaking trust.

    • Replies: @PiltdownMan

    And as the Japanese commentator mentioned, capitalism dies if you raise wages, so no one will be doing that.
     
    Marx got there first. Henry Ford disagreed.
  178. @anonymous
    Japan is thought to be a very xenophobic nation, suspicious of foreigners and foreign culture (just ask St. Francis Xavier) but as we have seen over the centuries they will not hesitate to embrace certain aspects of foreign culture so long as it serves their needs. Thus far, they have managed to retain their ethnic and cultural identity. But this cannot happen absent arguably the most rigid immigration laws on earth. Good for them!

    FWIW, Japan loves them some Finland.

    I learned this at an anime store off Union Square in SF in the maybe late ’90s. They had all these anime tchotchkes. There in the middle of the Hello Kitty and such was a bunch of Moomin stuff, which I had never seen outside of specifically Finnish cultural events/places/shops.

    Went in to ask about it–and the tiny girl working the counter said, “Oh in Japan we LOVE Moomin! Finland too!” She showed me to their shelves of Moomin comics and videos and dolls and plates and ornaments, then gave me some search terms for “Finnish villages built in Japan.”

    I forget what they were now, but they must be among the Japan/Finland friendship societies on this list:

    http://www.finland.or.jp/public/default.aspx?nodeid=41307&#038;

    I don’t recall her mentioning the Japan Finland Society for Prevention of Caries. 😀

  179. anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    The question remains: Why are diverse nations migrating to Japan of all places? They have zero commonality with the ethnicity, the heritage, the language, etc. As one pointed out here, Japan has low unemployment levels so it's not a shortage of workers that's the problem. Unless some businesses no longer want to pay the benefts, pensions, medical, etc that may be attached to hiring native born workers there.

    It doesn't add up nor make any sense why someone from the Middle East would feel entitled to migrate to Japan, a nation which has no direct historical connection to that region whatsoever. Same would go for India and Africa.

    Why would the government be letting them in now, when for centuries before they didn't?

    The same obvious answer: to bring people that accepts low wages and are more likely to spend their low wages on things than even the japanese (face it, even if they are good at saving money, they still have the same knack towards materialism than other asians). Even if unemployment is low, there’s no scruples to create more jobs just for people from the outside.
    While these Middle Eastern and South/Southeastern Asian immigrants are still at small numbers compared to other nations, it is very much noticeable in a nation that homogeneity was the rule.
    There are complaints of americans or europeans that strive to take permanent residence in Japan, to the point of learning the language and culture better than the japanese themselves, but they are rejected in favor of low skilled immigrants, be it temporary workers of some company or just you average economic migrant.
    The good point is, the government itself notices the population is well aware of changes. They try to make immigration look necessary or beneficial, to make opposition of it seems wrong, but they don’t advance too much on this, the population simply do not want more people from outside, especially from troubled nations.
    There is no nation or people nowadays that’s free from benefitting some ethnicity or race from entering borders. Of course, the rule for developed capitalistic countries is low skilled non-white people from anywhere that starves from cheap products, welfare and security, be them unemployed or jumping from job to job, even if they really promise to work hard to contribute and survive.

    • Replies: @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    "While these Middle Eastern and South/Southeastern Asian immigrants are still at small numbers compared to other nations, it is very much noticeable in a nation that homogeneity was the rule."

    WAS the rule? According to various stats, Japan remains ca.97-98% ethnically Japanese. That tends to suggest a solid majority.

    "There are complaints of americans or europeans that strive to take permanent residence in Japan, to the point of learning the language and culture better than the japanese themselves, but they are rejected in favor of low skilled immigrants, be it temporary workers of some company or just you average economic migrant."

    Perhaps these ex-pats aren't getting the message clear enough: They are not ethnically/racially Japanese, they aren't welcome in Japan, and, uh,....why don't they go home from whence they came? I question the motives of the ex-pats. Why do they want to live in Japan? They're not Japanese, and they don't have a given innate right to live there forever just cause they want to. That's not how it works. They should return home from where they came. I also seriously doubt that most ex-pats can learn the Japanese language better the Japanese themselves. It has no written Western alphabet, contains thousands of symbols. They would have to be among the top 1% of the right side of the Murray/Hernstein Bell Curve to achieve that feat. And second of all, WHO CARES? They are NOT Japanese. Facts remain facts. Change it around. Suppose ten thousand Mexicans decided willy nilly, that they wanted to immigrate to Tel Aviv. They set out to learn Hebrew, and immersed themselves in Insraeli culture. Then they attempt to migrate and settle permanently in Israel. Guess what? Its highly unlikely that Israel is going to accept ten thousand Mexicans as permanent residents, just cause they learned Hebrew and understand the culture. So what?

    The answer to your observation, is that Japan should just not accept foreign workers, period. There's no need for it. There's no crisis of labor, things are just fine with native born Japanese workers doing the jobs that they, their families and their ancient ancestors have always done.

    "They try to make immigration look necessary or beneficial, to make opposition of it seems wrong, but they don’t advance too much on this, the population simply do not want more people from outside, especially from troubled nations."

    I think you're missing it. For decades now, the government in Japan was hand in hand with their people on accepting foreign workers or foreigners, period. You also may be judging the issue from Western eyes, where all western nations are pretty much required (from an ideological perspective) to accept non-western nations "just cause" they have to. Well, for the longest time, Japan, a non-western nation, did not think along those lines and didn't care to follow that logic. Japan was for the Japanese and no one else.

    Have you been to Japan? Do you notice that it is a first world economy with first rate infrastructure, buildings? That it has among the highest living standards? Obviously, since they accepted very few immigrants from anywhere for decades these things weren't built, maintained, or consumed by foreigners. They're doing just fine on their own without outside assistance.


    "There is no nation or people nowadays that’s free from benefitting some ethnicity or race from entering borders."

    If there was one nation that's relatively free from immigration, it's been Japan. Again, it is ca.97-98% ethnically Japanese. They're doing just fine without any outside help. It's also good to remember that Japan is unique in that its an island, and thus can't afford to take in immigrants willy nilly.

    In light of your vague answers, and Western platitudes, I have to assume that the immigration question could become a highly important election issue for Japan in the foreseeable future.

    Why are foreigners coming into Japan at all? Not as tourists, but as either permanent residents, ex-pats, or low skilled workers? The workforce is doing just fine as its always done without outside assistance. Japan's living standard is among the best in the world and foreigners didn't contribute to that. Also remember that Japan has relatively closed markets to a lot of western goods. That's a feature of their system. They don't want more, they'd rather prefer none at all. And, perhaps in their eyes, a compelling case isn't being made as to why they should take in any more foreigners than they should have to.
  180. anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @MIGHTY EDAR
    I know why you guys have so called interest in asian cultures ,the women pure and simple ,at least the dark haired peoples intention is just there to make money unlike your dishonorable intention .Asians have more in common with dark haired people than with whites.

    Despite the troll line of thought, it still has a point. White people of american and european nations are just trying the easiest way out of their troubles by going to developed non-white nations that have accepted much of the western culture, but stayed homogeneous in their own ways. There they believe they will be exception for their “interest in the culture”, “educated background” and “ethnic respect” for others.
    Or in the case of Latin America for retirees, despite all the troubles there, there are enclaves or common cities where they can live off well among many others like them and the government won’t trouble their stay. Living in a hot country, but choosing the warmest region. Employing locals to tend them thinking they are naturally generous and taking advantage of their pension and Medicare/Medicaid-like systems while complaining of the same things in the US.
    I don’t think whites have much to complain from non-whites on that, even if they affirm they are just taking advantage from non-white nations like the non-whites are taking advantage from white nations. It was not non-whites that started the “Invade the World, Invite the World” actions, not even supporting corruption of already corrupted and dysfunctional politicians of non-developed countries towards their interests, also championing them as examples of diversity from one side while showing contempt from the other.

  181. @Low T Japan
    If Japanese are such low T people, how Come they conquered almost entire South East Asia 2 million square miles in 6-months during WWII?

    May be you are low T and projecting.

    Also, Japan still produces almost 1-million babies/year, almost all of whom are Japanese. This is more than the combined births of all German and English white babies.

    Remember, until WWI Japan population was same as Germany. So Japanese are doing very well even demographically. Their land is same size as Germany. But double the babies/year.

    You are telling it like it is, brother. Japan is winning a quiet victory. How appropriate. Instead of the drama queens of the NYTimes crowd and all the charm of “high T” rappers, we see the dignified refinement of the Japanese. They should be seen as the true picture of success. Taking care of their own and owning what they take care of. Rather than the absurd growth model of economics, they are quietly defining the new quality model of success. Best to them. They do a great service to the world by simply showing how it is done. As my mother always assured me, living well is the best revenge.

    • Agree: Ivy
  182. @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    My brother just returned from a business trip to Tokyo, he was there for about two weeks. Everyone is well aware that Tokyo's a high cost of living city, and that housing prices are high. He was told that in some parts of the city, apartments go for as little as 400sq feet living space. That's basically a cell block.

    So regarding cost of living, basically Tokyo is equivalent to NY. Wonder if you can rent a 400sq. foot apartment in New York, and if so, what would be the cost?

    Wonder if the other major cities in Japan have that cost of living, or if housing in Osaka and Kobe go for much less?

    I have a guest house just behind my house that is about that size. It would be okay for a young couple if they weren’t acquisitive. It is very nice.

    Lots of extended stay hotels offer similarly sized places that have full kitchens. So, it is not horrible if you don’t have tons of junk you just have to have.

  183. @Chrisnonymous
    Yeah, a single vote in a 9-0 decision gives us a lot of info on Gorsuch. LOL.

    Yeah you’re right. He just sprang unformed from the ether without a long list of legal opinions that consistently show a strict Originalist.

    Do you ever tire of living on your belly, digging your face into the ground so you don’t have to even think about standing up like a man?

  184. Ban work!

    The Abolition of Work

    Bob Black

    No one should ever work.

    Work is the source of nearly all the misery in the world. Almost any evil you’d care to name comes from working or from living in a world designed for work. In order to stop suffering, we have to stop working.

    That doesn’t mean we have to stop doing things. It does mean creating a new way of life based on play; in other words, a *ludic* conviviality, commensality, and maybe even art. There is more to play than child’s play, as worthy as that is. I call for a collective adventure in generalized joy and freely interdependent exuberance. Play isn’t passive. Doubtless we all need a lot more time for sheer sloth and slack than we ever enjoy now, regardless of income or occupation, but once recovered from employment-induced exhaustion nearly all of us want to act. Oblomovism and Stakhanovism are two sides of the same debased coin.

    Buy Japanese robots to do work and have more time to ride the bike. Fish more. Live on the boats and castaway. Life’s a dive and adventure.

  185. @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    The question remains: Why are diverse nations migrating to Japan of all places? They have zero commonality with the ethnicity, the heritage, the language, etc. As one pointed out here, Japan has low unemployment levels so it's not a shortage of workers that's the problem. Unless some businesses no longer want to pay the benefts, pensions, medical, etc that may be attached to hiring native born workers there.

    It doesn't add up nor make any sense why someone from the Middle East would feel entitled to migrate to Japan, a nation which has no direct historical connection to that region whatsoever. Same would go for India and Africa.

    Why would the government be letting them in now, when for centuries before they didn't?

    Entitled’s got nothing to do with it. Japan is simply very appealing on its merits, and foreigners are appealing to Japanese for being cheap and easy to control.

  186. @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    The question remains: Why are diverse nations migrating to Japan of all places? They have zero commonality with the ethnicity, the heritage, the language, etc. As one pointed out here, Japan has low unemployment levels so it's not a shortage of workers that's the problem. Unless some businesses no longer want to pay the benefts, pensions, medical, etc that may be attached to hiring native born workers there.

    It doesn't add up nor make any sense why someone from the Middle East would feel entitled to migrate to Japan, a nation which has no direct historical connection to that region whatsoever. Same would go for India and Africa.

    Why would the government be letting them in now, when for centuries before they didn't?

    It doesn’t add up nor make any sense why someone from the Middle East would feel entitled to migrate to Japan, a nation which has no direct historical connection to that region whatsoever. Same would go for India and Africa.

    Gibsmedat mentality.

    • Replies: @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    Gibs never got into the island before. What has changed that they're starting to come?
  187. @Daniel Chieh
    Email him at AmRen?

    Anyway, my understanding is that its the same issue as anywhere else - some foreigners have reduced expectations for wages and living condition, and are willing to work at rates that natives wouldn't accept. And as the Japanese commentator mentioned, capitalism dies if you raise wages, so no one will be doing that. And furthermore, the Japanese collusion system is such that companies can't raise wages because that would undermine their community and lead to consequences for breaking trust.

    And as the Japanese commentator mentioned, capitalism dies if you raise wages, so no one will be doing that.

    Marx got there first. Henry Ford disagreed.

    • Replies: @Charles Erwin Wilson
    Henry Ford was right. And Marx wasn't just wrong, Marx was as wrong as possible. Revolution, not religion, is the opiate of the masses.
  188. @Dieter Kief
    Thats no problem as long as people trust the system. The crucial point would be reached, if the employment rate would decline (but it is in a phantastic shape, actually), or if the industry would run out of capital - which ins't to be seen anywhere in Japan, because people earn enough money and lead a reasonable enough life to make savingss possible and: They do bring their money to Japanese banks because, you know: They - trust their system (or you could say: They trust their Nation (=their traditions).

    All in all: The Japanese state of affairs seems to be good.

    And this might sound even worse, than it really is.

    I’m not convinced. Entirely apart from individual wages and standards of living now, a debt that large is very difficult to pay off or inflate away. And though Japan has been pretty fiscally disciplined in government spending for the past six years, government restraint is rarely a good bet, and it’s very easy for a debt like that to grow to eat the entire economy.

    • Replies: @Dieter Kief
    Ok - what you describe is basically Soros' and the Soros-defender's position: You need to police gvernment spending by checking out, which currency is getting week and then be speculating against it, to discipline them (punish them financially).

    My argument at this point is very short: If there's no police around (nobody trying to speculate against the Yen), and society and the economy are working (see the increase in housing space, the quite impressive Pisa-results, Japan gets, see the unempoyment rate etc.), - then fine. Things work.

    And if things work on such a high level: Don't interfere too hard, and try to avoid big mistakes. Steve's point here was: It would be a big mistake to strengthen immigration into Japan in order to help the Japanese economy. I'd say that this is quite right.

  189. @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    But this isn't fully dealing with the main question: Why are foreign workers being brought into Japan at all? Is Japan digesting the motto 'Foreigners will do the work that native born workers won't?"

    Really? Seriously?

    Where's Jared Taylor when you need him to comment on something pertaining to Japan? He was raised in Japan, speaks the language fluently, and may be able to provide some insight into this potential rising problem of importing foreign workers to Japan.

    “And as the Japanese commentator mentioned, capitalism dies if you raise wages, so no one will be doing that. And furthermore, the Japanese collusion system is such that companies can’t raise wages because that would undermine their community and lead to consequences for breaking trust.”

    That doesn’t make any sense. If you LOWER wages, the cost of living falls for the middle and lower-middle classes, because they can’t keep up with rising inflation/natural cost of living increases with each passing decade, etc. If anything, by gradually increasing wages you help stabilize the overall cost of living for the middle class. You can’t pay a family of four the same wages (in real terms) that you did forty yrs ago.

    If you import foreign workers, that drives wages downward, which in turn harms the wages for the native born workers.

    Again, Japan did not resort to these types of business practices in the relative past, they tended to look out for their native born workers. What has changed that some businesses would be importing (for them) higher numbers of foreign workers? The nation has low unemployment, so adding more workers makes no sense at all. They’re not needed. There’s no labor shortage. Unless Japan’s businesses want to drive down total wages which in turn lowers the standard of living for the middle class.

    I still think this will be a crucial election year issue if things continue over there and native born workers soon find themselves out of work due to foreign workers.

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    The perceived cost of living has been increasing, though very slowly, and is indeed a cause of concern for the middle class. The politics there are a bit more complex and involve societal elements that most countries don't have, and a form of traditional macrocorruption that could only exist in high-trust countries.

    Basically, the companies largely do not compete with each other. They exist semi-informally as a trust through high-trust backdoor dealings, and as with capitalists everywhere, the elite defend their share of the earnings. As their share of the earnings have been threatened from competition from China and South Korea, they will have to put the squeeze on overhead. Furthermore, the consensus form of decision making would force them all to make the same decision to raise wages and undercut their earnings, and as you might imagine, its difficult to do that en masse.

    Insofar as looking out for the worker, that was easier when lifetime employment and lack of labor laws allowed them to essentially own salarymen in exchange for assurances to their protection, in an almost feudal arrangement. Its not efficient, though and the world frowns on you for working people to the death these days. Every single enlightened Western consultant they hire will tell them to change things so they can be more profitable. And there's decent evidence to show that lifetime employment is indeed not very competitive compared to any form of fire-at-will employment.

    So yes, in the end, it does come down to capitalism and how it is really difficult to be different when the world is racing down to the bottom. And while various societal structures and cultural values change the flow of things, in the end, neoliberalism sells pretty appealing memes even before we get into NGOs actively promoting it. Individual freedom! Self-maximization! Silicon Valley! Hollywood movies!

    Its all pretty potent.
  190. @PiltdownMan

    It doesn’t add up nor make any sense why someone from the Middle East would feel entitled to migrate to Japan, a nation which has no direct historical connection to that region whatsoever. Same would go for India and Africa.
     
    Gibsmedat mentality.

    Gibs never got into the island before. What has changed that they’re starting to come?

  191. @PiltdownMan

    And as the Japanese commentator mentioned, capitalism dies if you raise wages, so no one will be doing that.
     
    Marx got there first. Henry Ford disagreed.

    Henry Ford was right. And Marx wasn’t just wrong, Marx was as wrong as possible. Revolution, not religion, is the opiate of the masses.

  192. @Dieter Kief
    It's no use to speculate against the Yen - and the stock-market is not volatile (=a bore=stable): Economic stability offers no opportunity for fast money. Bad news for Hedgefonds attacks and: - No country for old Soros (and the like) man.

    Thanks

  193. @spandrell
    If you mean the figures, there's plenty of news articles out there with the numbers.

    If you mean the cause, a short look at the Japanese internet and you'll find plenty of Japanese men telling you exactly that. Women are too much trouble, cost too much money, and can't be trusted, so why would anyone bother to start a relationship, let alone a family.

    I meant both. Thanks for the perspective.

  194. The horrors caused by Japan’s demographic ‘crisis’ just go from bad to worse.

    http://www.twitter.com/AStuttaford/status/879857066084577280

    “As crime dries up, Japan’s police hunt for things to do”

  195. @Frau Katze
    I am not an anti-Semite at all, I have argued against it many times here.

    But we cannot forever go on associating everything connected with Nazis as if it were tainted, ritually unclean forever,

    For example, in the 1930s Germans first showed that smoking caused lung cancer.

    After the war, Big Tobacco made excellent use of saying, "Well that data was collected under the Nazis. You're going to believe that?"

    I read a long history of tobacco and the Nazi thing bought them a few more years (and more than a few lung cancer deaths).

    I'd like to see other examples besides Nazis.

    Your tobacco-example is telling, didn’t know that. Thanks.

    Exept for that: It’ s obviously very hard for the human mind to differentiate between wrong thoughts and things thought of by the wrong (=guilty) person.

    Except for that, having been (governed by) Nazis brought shame to Germany – and to (large parts of) the world. And shame is a strong emotion – and therefor an obstacle to clear mindedness – which in this case is extraordinaryily important, because to develop a non-hysterical attitude concerning Nazism implies the as I said above: Extraordinarily difficult task to differentiate bettween wrong thougts and concepts) and thoughts (and concepts) held from the wrong persons (=Nazis, for example).

    To stay for a second in this region of abstract thoughts: It is quite usual in Germany up to this day, that poeple accuse one another of not being appropriately ashamed for the Nazi period, and therefor dangerous.

    This has become a routine of everyday life – a ritual of sorts – and now comes the next hurdle – even though Psychiatrist and Philosopher Karl Jaspers in the fifties (!) made a widely accepted differentiation in saying: Persons who did unlawful things in the Nazi period should well be ashamed, the others need n o t be ashamed though, because this would imply collective German guilt for the Nazi deeds, which would not only be deeply unjust for all those Germans, who suffered from the Nazis and / or for all those, who resisted them (if unseccessfully) – but it would also hurt the good juridical practise to bind guilt at the proven facts in a regular trial.
    He then went on to ask a l l Germans, to take up the responsibility for the Nazi deeds for everybody who has been killed or hurt or treated unjust in other ways by the Nazis.

    This is all very clear and widely accepted – and even though hard to follow through in everyday struggles. It just so happened that the extraordinarily accomplished German historian Rolf Peter Sieferle got attacked by seemingly all of the reasonable (=established) German public in the last three weeks for resisting – Collective German guilt, and stating, that the idea of collective German guilt kind of blinds the German public to understand, or even realise the threats of immigration – and African population growth.

    An example, Rolf Petere sieferle could have made, if he wouldn’t have died last summer, was the Geman (conservative!) secretary of state for International Development who stated these days, that Germany has (with others, ok) the task, to create 20 million jobs in Africa – – PER YEAR – and STOP CLIMATE-CHANGE – or else, there will be 100 million Africans coming to the EU.

    It is obvious from such staatements, that something is still wrong in lots of heads of the German public – and that this something – – goes right back to the “Third Reich”.

    (Mind everybody reading this, especially the short-circuited: I don’t say, we Germans are short of reason to this day for no reason).

    • Replies: @Opinionator
    Persons who did unlawful things in the Nazi period should well be ashamed

    Were the alleged things that German persons are supposed to be most ashamed of unlawful?

  196. @Cloudbuster
    I'm not convinced. Entirely apart from individual wages and standards of living now, a debt that large is very difficult to pay off or inflate away. And though Japan has been pretty fiscally disciplined in government spending for the past six years, government restraint is rarely a good bet, and it's very easy for a debt like that to grow to eat the entire economy.

    Ok – what you describe is basically Soros’ and the Soros-defender’s position: You need to police gvernment spending by checking out, which currency is getting week and then be speculating against it, to discipline them (punish them financially).

    My argument at this point is very short: If there’s no police around (nobody trying to speculate against the Yen), and society and the economy are working (see the increase in housing space, the quite impressive Pisa-results, Japan gets, see the unempoyment rate etc.), – then fine. Things work.

    And if things work on such a high level: Don’t interfere too hard, and try to avoid big mistakes. Steve’s point here was: It would be a big mistake to strengthen immigration into Japan in order to help the Japanese economy. I’d say that this is quite right.

  197. @Dieter Kief
    Don't you please forget the German Democratic Republic.

    Cases like that should social psychologists make envious. Those are the biggest, and best documented, behavioural experiments ever.

    Yeah, Dieter, I didn’t forget East Germany, but I would say the whole Eastern European side of the Iron Curtain had Communism forced on them from outside, so I just didn’t lump it in with the stupidity of the others. I don’t mean your average Russian, Chinese, or Cuban had it forced on them either, but the “great new idea” of “lets go Communist – what’s it gonna hurt” originated inside those places.

    I assume you have seen “The Lives of Others”, Dieter – great movie. Imagine what these types of people can do for control of our lives now, with a whole lot more electronics.

    • Replies: @Dieter Kief
    uh, Achmed -"The Lives of Others", good movie, ok. But hey: What about real life: I've been to the GDR numerous times - and at least one time, I had a special agent in the disguise of a tour guide with me day and night... She was nice and all, charming, good looking, too, Jana, but she was an agent. And quite a few of the writers we met - later turned out to be agents as well...And that was 1988, what made it a lot easier than it might have been in 78, because you could feel, that something strange is in the air.

    And I've smuggeld books into the GDR - I handed over the complete lyrics of Bob Dylan to Wolf Biermann in his home in the Chausseestraße - heartfully wellcomed by the bard - who was in a hurry and excused himself, that he couldn't invite us in - because his wife was just about to deliver her first baby...

    And so forth.

    Your differentiation - ok, but: There were lots of Weimar communists, who dreamed of a GDR - and they helped the Nazis to destroy the Weimar Republic (following Lenin's strict advise...) - and kinda succeeded in the...nightmarish...end of REAL SOCIALISM (Ulbricht).
    Two great novels about the late GDR: Land der Wunder, by Michael Klonovsky and: 1/3 of Franzen's Purity. Both are highly recommended.

    Nobody would need the enormous masses (!!) of people anymore to install something like the GDR, because Internet etc., that's true. I do feel a little creepy ervery once in a while, for posting my real name, if I think about this stuff.
    But only a little.
  198. I am still trying to get wrap my head around the idea that elected officials somewhere might think about things like quality of life for a nation’s people. Don’t those people in Japan know that a country is really no more than an economy? and that it should be run like a supermarket? and that it should run to maximize GDP? and to care about preserving culture or ethnicity (scary!) is just racist? How in God’s name are they going to move any TP by not flooding their country with third worlders? I mean what is really important? They don’t seem to get it.

    They must care about culture or the people over there. Those elected officials never would make it over here.

  199. @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    "And as the Japanese commentator mentioned, capitalism dies if you raise wages, so no one will be doing that. And furthermore, the Japanese collusion system is such that companies can’t raise wages because that would undermine their community and lead to consequences for breaking trust."

    That doesn't make any sense. If you LOWER wages, the cost of living falls for the middle and lower-middle classes, because they can't keep up with rising inflation/natural cost of living increases with each passing decade, etc. If anything, by gradually increasing wages you help stabilize the overall cost of living for the middle class. You can't pay a family of four the same wages (in real terms) that you did forty yrs ago.

    If you import foreign workers, that drives wages downward, which in turn harms the wages for the native born workers.

    Again, Japan did not resort to these types of business practices in the relative past, they tended to look out for their native born workers. What has changed that some businesses would be importing (for them) higher numbers of foreign workers? The nation has low unemployment, so adding more workers makes no sense at all. They're not needed. There's no labor shortage. Unless Japan's businesses want to drive down total wages which in turn lowers the standard of living for the middle class.

    I still think this will be a crucial election year issue if things continue over there and native born workers soon find themselves out of work due to foreign workers.

    The perceived cost of living has been increasing, though very slowly, and is indeed a cause of concern for the middle class. The politics there are a bit more complex and involve societal elements that most countries don’t have, and a form of traditional macrocorruption that could only exist in high-trust countries.

    Basically, the companies largely do not compete with each other. They exist semi-informally as a trust through high-trust backdoor dealings, and as with capitalists everywhere, the elite defend their share of the earnings. As their share of the earnings have been threatened from competition from China and South Korea, they will have to put the squeeze on overhead. Furthermore, the consensus form of decision making would force them all to make the same decision to raise wages and undercut their earnings, and as you might imagine, its difficult to do that en masse.

    Insofar as looking out for the worker, that was easier when lifetime employment and lack of labor laws allowed them to essentially own salarymen in exchange for assurances to their protection, in an almost feudal arrangement. Its not efficient, though and the world frowns on you for working people to the death these days. Every single enlightened Western consultant they hire will tell them to change things so they can be more profitable. And there’s decent evidence to show that lifetime employment is indeed not very competitive compared to any form of fire-at-will employment.

    So yes, in the end, it does come down to capitalism and how it is really difficult to be different when the world is racing down to the bottom. And while various societal structures and cultural values change the flow of things, in the end, neoliberalism sells pretty appealing memes even before we get into NGOs actively promoting it. Individual freedom! Self-maximization! Silicon Valley! Hollywood movies!

    Its all pretty potent.

    • Replies: @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    You also aren't looking at it from an historical perspective. You seem to assume that Japan has become so westernized that they don't remember the values, norms, etc that have evolved among their people for over fifteen hundred years. They are a distinct unique people. They generally don't want more foreigners into their nation. Also, wages in Japan haven't remained at the same level they were a half century ago. Come on. Every decade or so the cost of doing business in any nation goes up, and thus incrementally, wages must increase as well. That's not a major problem. The problem exists when suddenly because other nations are accepting foreign workers, now the home nation is told 'Well, guys, looks like we have to do the same thing too, if we want to be comeptitive. We can't just hire our own workers like we've been doing for centuries. We now have to take in low skilled workers, most of whom can't speak the language and will only serve to drive down wages even lower. But hey, in five years we'll make tons more profits. Of course ten years down the road we'll have outsourced our jobs and have to rely on bringing in even more foreigners, but for the short term, it's a good solution.'

    "Every single enlightened Western consultant they hire will tell them to change things so they can be more profitable. And there’s decent evidence to show that lifetime employment is indeed not very competitive compared to any form of fire-at-will employment."


    And how's that worked out for the US with trade agreements and outsourcing millions of industrial jobs oversees? I think you inadvertently answered by showing which side you're on. The Western consultants are tied to no one nation, they're globalists and thus have no loyalties to any one governmental system. The only thing they value is increasing the bottom line. Well, yes, if the bottom line is to fire ten thousand workers and import ten thousand low skilled foreigners who will work at ten cents an hour, for no benefits, pensions, etc. then sure, the top 1% will make out like bandits and the CEOS will make 20 million per year, and have a sweet buy out leverage of 50-100 million package. Sure, that's one way that capitalism works.

    But is that the only way it should work? Is that what benefits a nation and its workers? Answer: Not by a long sight.

    Keep it simple to understand during the election: Do you want workers from Korea and China, historical enemies, rivals, perceived to be inferior to Japan, to come into your nation? Even though there's no labor shortage at all, first world standard of living, and things ae going just fine.

    Your prescriptions sound similar to Mitt Romney in '12 on the campaign trail. Just trim the fat, the excess jobs, and magic presto over time the nation will become prosperous. Come to think of it, that's what Romney did for a living, examine a company and where to trim various jobs in
    order to expand profits, at the expense of the work force, of course.
  200. @Dieter Kief
    Your tobacco-example is telling, didn't know that. Thanks.

    Exept for that: It' s obviously very hard for the human mind to differentiate between wrong thoughts and things thought of by the wrong (=guilty) person.

    Except for that, having been (governed by) Nazis brought shame to Germany - and to (large parts of) the world. And shame is a strong emotion - and therefor an obstacle to clear mindedness - which in this case is extraordinaryily important, because to develop a non-hysterical attitude concerning Nazism implies the as I said above: Extraordinarily difficult task to differentiate bettween wrong thougts and concepts) and thoughts (and concepts) held from the wrong persons (=Nazis, for example).

    To stay for a second in this region of abstract thoughts: It is quite usual in Germany up to this day, that poeple accuse one another of not being appropriately ashamed for the Nazi period, and therefor dangerous.

    This has become a routine of everyday life - a ritual of sorts - and now comes the next hurdle - even though Psychiatrist and Philosopher Karl Jaspers in the fifties (!) made a widely accepted differentiation in saying: Persons who did unlawful things in the Nazi period should well be ashamed, the others need n o t be ashamed though, because this would imply collective German guilt for the Nazi deeds, which would not only be deeply unjust for all those Germans, who suffered from the Nazis and / or for all those, who resisted them (if unseccessfully) - but it would also hurt the good juridical practise to bind guilt at the proven facts in a regular trial.
    He then went on to ask a l l Germans, to take up the responsibility for the Nazi deeds for everybody who has been killed or hurt or treated unjust in other ways by the Nazis.

    This is all very clear and widely accepted - and even though hard to follow through in everyday struggles. It just so happened that the extraordinarily accomplished German historian Rolf Peter Sieferle got attacked by seemingly all of the reasonable (=established) German public in the last three weeks for resisting - Collective German guilt, and stating, that the idea of collective German guilt kind of blinds the German public to understand, or even realise the threats of immigration - and African population growth.

    An example, Rolf Petere sieferle could have made, if he wouldn't have died last summer, was the Geman (conservative!) secretary of state for International Development who stated these days, that Germany has (with others, ok) the task, to create 20 million jobs in Africa - - PER YEAR - and STOP CLIMATE-CHANGE - or else, there will be 100 million Africans coming to the EU.

    It is obvious from such staatements, that something is still wrong in lots of heads of the German public - and that this something - - goes right back to the "Third Reich".

    (Mind everybody reading this, especially the short-circuited: I don't say, we Germans are short of reason to this day for no reason).

    Persons who did unlawful things in the Nazi period should well be ashamed

    Were the alleged things that German persons are supposed to be most ashamed of unlawful?

    • Replies: @Dieter Kief
    "Were the alleged things that German persons are supposed to be most ashamed of unlawful?"

    I might get your point. They are now. Or were then, when this discussion took up speed, in the fifties.
  201. @anonymous
    The same obvious answer: to bring people that accepts low wages and are more likely to spend their low wages on things than even the japanese (face it, even if they are good at saving money, they still have the same knack towards materialism than other asians). Even if unemployment is low, there's no scruples to create more jobs just for people from the outside.
    While these Middle Eastern and South/Southeastern Asian immigrants are still at small numbers compared to other nations, it is very much noticeable in a nation that homogeneity was the rule.
    There are complaints of americans or europeans that strive to take permanent residence in Japan, to the point of learning the language and culture better than the japanese themselves, but they are rejected in favor of low skilled immigrants, be it temporary workers of some company or just you average economic migrant.
    The good point is, the government itself notices the population is well aware of changes. They try to make immigration look necessary or beneficial, to make opposition of it seems wrong, but they don't advance too much on this, the population simply do not want more people from outside, especially from troubled nations.
    There is no nation or people nowadays that's free from benefitting some ethnicity or race from entering borders. Of course, the rule for developed capitalistic countries is low skilled non-white people from anywhere that starves from cheap products, welfare and security, be them unemployed or jumping from job to job, even if they really promise to work hard to contribute and survive.

    “While these Middle Eastern and South/Southeastern Asian immigrants are still at small numbers compared to other nations, it is very much noticeable in a nation that homogeneity was the rule.”

    WAS the rule? According to various stats, Japan remains ca.97-98% ethnically Japanese. That tends to suggest a solid majority.

    “There are complaints of americans or europeans that strive to take permanent residence in Japan, to the point of learning the language and culture better than the japanese themselves, but they are rejected in favor of low skilled immigrants, be it temporary workers of some company or just you average economic migrant.”

    Perhaps these ex-pats aren’t getting the message clear enough: They are not ethnically/racially Japanese, they aren’t welcome in Japan, and, uh,….why don’t they go home from whence they came? I question the motives of the ex-pats. Why do they want to live in Japan? They’re not Japanese, and they don’t have a given innate right to live there forever just cause they want to. That’s not how it works. They should return home from where they came. I also seriously doubt that most ex-pats can learn the Japanese language better the Japanese themselves. It has no written Western alphabet, contains thousands of symbols. They would have to be among the top 1% of the right side of the Murray/Hernstein Bell Curve to achieve that feat. And second of all, WHO CARES? They are NOT Japanese. Facts remain facts. Change it around. Suppose ten thousand Mexicans decided willy nilly, that they wanted to immigrate to Tel Aviv. They set out to learn Hebrew, and immersed themselves in Insraeli culture. Then they attempt to migrate and settle permanently in Israel. Guess what? Its highly unlikely that Israel is going to accept ten thousand Mexicans as permanent residents, just cause they learned Hebrew and understand the culture. So what?

    [MORE]

    The answer to your observation, is that Japan should just not accept foreign workers, period. There’s no need for it. There’s no crisis of labor, things are just fine with native born Japanese workers doing the jobs that they, their families and their ancient ancestors have always done.

    “They try to make immigration look necessary or beneficial, to make opposition of it seems wrong, but they don’t advance too much on this, the population simply do not want more people from outside, especially from troubled nations.”

    I think you’re missing it. For decades now, the government in Japan was hand in hand with their people on accepting foreign workers or foreigners, period. You also may be judging the issue from Western eyes, where all western nations are pretty much required (from an ideological perspective) to accept non-western nations “just cause” they have to. Well, for the longest time, Japan, a non-western nation, did not think along those lines and didn’t care to follow that logic. Japan was for the Japanese and no one else.

    Have you been to Japan? Do you notice that it is a first world economy with first rate infrastructure, buildings? That it has among the highest living standards? Obviously, since they accepted very few immigrants from anywhere for decades these things weren’t built, maintained, or consumed by foreigners. They’re doing just fine on their own without outside assistance.

    “There is no nation or people nowadays that’s free from benefitting some ethnicity or race from entering borders.”

    If there was one nation that’s relatively free from immigration, it’s been Japan. Again, it is ca.97-98% ethnically Japanese. They’re doing just fine without any outside help. It’s also good to remember that Japan is unique in that its an island, and thus can’t afford to take in immigrants willy nilly.

    In light of your vague answers, and Western platitudes, I have to assume that the immigration question could become a highly important election issue for Japan in the foreseeable future.

    Why are foreigners coming into Japan at all? Not as tourists, but as either permanent residents, ex-pats, or low skilled workers? The workforce is doing just fine as its always done without outside assistance. Japan’s living standard is among the best in the world and foreigners didn’t contribute to that. Also remember that Japan has relatively closed markets to a lot of western goods. That’s a feature of their system. They don’t want more, they’d rather prefer none at all. And, perhaps in their eyes, a compelling case isn’t being made as to why they should take in any more foreigners than they should have to.

  202. @Daniel Chieh
    The perceived cost of living has been increasing, though very slowly, and is indeed a cause of concern for the middle class. The politics there are a bit more complex and involve societal elements that most countries don't have, and a form of traditional macrocorruption that could only exist in high-trust countries.

    Basically, the companies largely do not compete with each other. They exist semi-informally as a trust through high-trust backdoor dealings, and as with capitalists everywhere, the elite defend their share of the earnings. As their share of the earnings have been threatened from competition from China and South Korea, they will have to put the squeeze on overhead. Furthermore, the consensus form of decision making would force them all to make the same decision to raise wages and undercut their earnings, and as you might imagine, its difficult to do that en masse.

    Insofar as looking out for the worker, that was easier when lifetime employment and lack of labor laws allowed them to essentially own salarymen in exchange for assurances to their protection, in an almost feudal arrangement. Its not efficient, though and the world frowns on you for working people to the death these days. Every single enlightened Western consultant they hire will tell them to change things so they can be more profitable. And there's decent evidence to show that lifetime employment is indeed not very competitive compared to any form of fire-at-will employment.

    So yes, in the end, it does come down to capitalism and how it is really difficult to be different when the world is racing down to the bottom. And while various societal structures and cultural values change the flow of things, in the end, neoliberalism sells pretty appealing memes even before we get into NGOs actively promoting it. Individual freedom! Self-maximization! Silicon Valley! Hollywood movies!

    Its all pretty potent.

    You also aren’t looking at it from an historical perspective. You seem to assume that Japan has become so westernized that they don’t remember the values, norms, etc that have evolved among their people for over fifteen hundred years. They are a distinct unique people. They generally don’t want more foreigners into their nation. Also, wages in Japan haven’t remained at the same level they were a half century ago. Come on. Every decade or so the cost of doing business in any nation goes up, and thus incrementally, wages must increase as well. That’s not a major problem. The problem exists when suddenly because other nations are accepting foreign workers, now the home nation is told ‘Well, guys, looks like we have to do the same thing too, if we want to be comeptitive. We can’t just hire our own workers like we’ve been doing for centuries. We now have to take in low skilled workers, most of whom can’t speak the language and will only serve to drive down wages even lower. But hey, in five years we’ll make tons more profits. Of course ten years down the road we’ll have outsourced our jobs and have to rely on bringing in even more foreigners, but for the short term, it’s a good solution.’

    “Every single enlightened Western consultant they hire will tell them to change things so they can be more profitable. And there’s decent evidence to show that lifetime employment is indeed not very competitive compared to any form of fire-at-will employment.”

    And how’s that worked out for the US with trade agreements and outsourcing millions of industrial jobs oversees? I think you inadvertently answered by showing which side you’re on. The Western consultants are tied to no one nation, they’re globalists and thus have no loyalties to any one governmental system. The only thing they value is increasing the bottom line. Well, yes, if the bottom line is to fire ten thousand workers and import ten thousand low skilled foreigners who will work at ten cents an hour, for no benefits, pensions, etc. then sure, the top 1% will make out like bandits and the CEOS will make 20 million per year, and have a sweet buy out leverage of 50-100 million package. Sure, that’s one way that capitalism works.

    But is that the only way it should work? Is that what benefits a nation and its workers? Answer: Not by a long sight.

    Keep it simple to understand during the election: Do you want workers from Korea and China, historical enemies, rivals, perceived to be inferior to Japan, to come into your nation? Even though there’s no labor shortage at all, first world standard of living, and things ae going just fine.

    Your prescriptions sound similar to Mitt Romney in ’12 on the campaign trail. Just trim the fat, the excess jobs, and magic presto over time the nation will become prosperous. Come to think of it, that’s what Romney did for a living, examine a company and where to trim various jobs in
    order to expand profits, at the expense of the work force, of course.

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    I don't have a "side" in this. I would prefer if countries could maintain their distinctive cultural and ethnic backgrounds, so in that sense, I would like to know if they could be uniquely and permanently resistant. What I am doing is observing, however, and I'm dubious that it actually works out like that.

    The wages are easy to increase when the profits for the elite were increasing too, and the challenges are the same as I mentioned before - when those profits are challenged by foreign competition, then the pressure falls upon the workers. You're assuming that the corporate elite has an exceeding concern for the concerns of their workers, a kind of the paternal attitude that they used to have back when they had lifetime employment. It isn't as much the case now at all, though.

    And in fact, I am taking in consideration of the unique cultural attitudes they have and which I'm actually familiar with - why else did I explain the issues with "high-trust corruption." That kind of cooperation and coordination is honestly pretty unique to Japan, where in almost any other country, rivals in business seek to undercut each other's margins.

    The issue is that the corporate/governing elite like the powerful Nippon Kaigi group isn't exactly just here to uphold your average workers as "family"; the trust of noblesse oblige from the elite to the traditional peasants, and yes, this is what has stretched for hundreds of years, has been gradually broken down by capitalism. The elite hasn't exactly allied themselves with Western elite, so its not quite as bad as in places that go full hog worshipping liberalism. But they have their own ideas, and look out for their own interests. They do care for Japan more than Western elite care for the West. But they still are an unique bloc to themselves and care for themselves most of all.

    And finally, that's also why its not an "election" issue, in large part because Japan isn't really reliant on public opinion. Its reliant on the overwhelming power of this elite, who basically from samurai families, so there's more or less a continuity of that power. Because they're not a real democracy, they can lash back against a lot of foreign pressure. But by the same token, this doesn't mean that they value their population in the same way they used to.

    You can't exactly have feudalism back without lifetime employment; you can't have lifetime employment if you can't demand people to sacrifice their lives for you; people don't sacrifice their lives for their "masters" anymore, because that's seen as wrong and backward. So as you gradually take bricks from the foundations of their original social system, why is it surprising that everything else begins to crumble?

  203. @Alec Leamas

    What’s not to like?
     
    Yea, but how are the street tacos?

    So i suppose this means that japan has no food trucks. No food trucks!!! Where do urban hipster douchbag wusses eat lunch over there?

  204. @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    You also aren't looking at it from an historical perspective. You seem to assume that Japan has become so westernized that they don't remember the values, norms, etc that have evolved among their people for over fifteen hundred years. They are a distinct unique people. They generally don't want more foreigners into their nation. Also, wages in Japan haven't remained at the same level they were a half century ago. Come on. Every decade or so the cost of doing business in any nation goes up, and thus incrementally, wages must increase as well. That's not a major problem. The problem exists when suddenly because other nations are accepting foreign workers, now the home nation is told 'Well, guys, looks like we have to do the same thing too, if we want to be comeptitive. We can't just hire our own workers like we've been doing for centuries. We now have to take in low skilled workers, most of whom can't speak the language and will only serve to drive down wages even lower. But hey, in five years we'll make tons more profits. Of course ten years down the road we'll have outsourced our jobs and have to rely on bringing in even more foreigners, but for the short term, it's a good solution.'

    "Every single enlightened Western consultant they hire will tell them to change things so they can be more profitable. And there’s decent evidence to show that lifetime employment is indeed not very competitive compared to any form of fire-at-will employment."


    And how's that worked out for the US with trade agreements and outsourcing millions of industrial jobs oversees? I think you inadvertently answered by showing which side you're on. The Western consultants are tied to no one nation, they're globalists and thus have no loyalties to any one governmental system. The only thing they value is increasing the bottom line. Well, yes, if the bottom line is to fire ten thousand workers and import ten thousand low skilled foreigners who will work at ten cents an hour, for no benefits, pensions, etc. then sure, the top 1% will make out like bandits and the CEOS will make 20 million per year, and have a sweet buy out leverage of 50-100 million package. Sure, that's one way that capitalism works.

    But is that the only way it should work? Is that what benefits a nation and its workers? Answer: Not by a long sight.

    Keep it simple to understand during the election: Do you want workers from Korea and China, historical enemies, rivals, perceived to be inferior to Japan, to come into your nation? Even though there's no labor shortage at all, first world standard of living, and things ae going just fine.

    Your prescriptions sound similar to Mitt Romney in '12 on the campaign trail. Just trim the fat, the excess jobs, and magic presto over time the nation will become prosperous. Come to think of it, that's what Romney did for a living, examine a company and where to trim various jobs in
    order to expand profits, at the expense of the work force, of course.

    I don’t have a “side” in this. I would prefer if countries could maintain their distinctive cultural and ethnic backgrounds, so in that sense, I would like to know if they could be uniquely and permanently resistant. What I am doing is observing, however, and I’m dubious that it actually works out like that.

    The wages are easy to increase when the profits for the elite were increasing too, and the challenges are the same as I mentioned before – when those profits are challenged by foreign competition, then the pressure falls upon the workers. You’re assuming that the corporate elite has an exceeding concern for the concerns of their workers, a kind of the paternal attitude that they used to have back when they had lifetime employment. It isn’t as much the case now at all, though.

    And in fact, I am taking in consideration of the unique cultural attitudes they have and which I’m actually familiar with – why else did I explain the issues with “high-trust corruption.” That kind of cooperation and coordination is honestly pretty unique to Japan, where in almost any other country, rivals in business seek to undercut each other’s margins.

    The issue is that the corporate/governing elite like the powerful Nippon Kaigi group isn’t exactly just here to uphold your average workers as “family”; the trust of noblesse oblige from the elite to the traditional peasants, and yes, this is what has stretched for hundreds of years, has been gradually broken down by capitalism. The elite hasn’t exactly allied themselves with Western elite, so its not quite as bad as in places that go full hog worshipping liberalism. But they have their own ideas, and look out for their own interests. They do care for Japan more than Western elite care for the West. But they still are an unique bloc to themselves and care for themselves most of all.

    And finally, that’s also why its not an “election” issue, in large part because Japan isn’t really reliant on public opinion. Its reliant on the overwhelming power of this elite, who basically from samurai families, so there’s more or less a continuity of that power. Because they’re not a real democracy, they can lash back against a lot of foreign pressure. But by the same token, this doesn’t mean that they value their population in the same way they used to.

    You can’t exactly have feudalism back without lifetime employment; you can’t have lifetime employment if you can’t demand people to sacrifice their lives for you; people don’t sacrifice their lives for their “masters” anymore, because that’s seen as wrong and backward. So as you gradually take bricks from the foundations of their original social system, why is it surprising that everything else begins to crumble?

    • Replies: @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    "I would prefer if countries could maintain their distinctive cultural and ethnic backgrounds, so in that sense, I would like to know if they could be uniquely and permanently resistant. What I am doing is observing, however, and I’m dubious that it actually works out like that."

    And so far in Japan it has been working out as far as maintaining their distinct cultural/ethnic backgrounds.

    "And finally, that’s also why its not an “election” issue, in large part because Japan isn’t really reliant on public opinion. Its reliant on the overwhelming power of this elite, who basically from samurai families, so there’s more or less a continuity of that power. Because they’re not a real democracy, they can lash back against a lot of foreign pressure. But by the same token, this doesn’t mean that they value their population in the same way they used to."

    And because the Samurai class remnant goes back into history, its loyalties to family, clan, and ultimately province and nation resides inward--to Japan, and not outward to Korea, China, etc. or "citizen of the world" claptrap.

    Don't they have elections in Japan? I was under the impression that they do. Enough public opinion translates into votes, does it not? If the working classes perceive that noblesse oblige from the elites is no longer working, they may just look to the government to help assist them in keeping foreign workers out.

    Also, an elite group that wields power unofficially works best in a monocultural nation such as Japan. If the nation begins letting in more and more foreigners, then the power of the class of which you speak would plummet and they'd be no better off than the peons. This is quite simple: the newly arrived foreigners care nothing for and owe little to the traditional Japanese elites. Loyalty in this sense has historical ties and thus is ethnic based, not based in "global citizen".

    When push comes to shove, this class elite sides with their own. They're not going to willingly turn over their power and privileges and allow foreigners to transform the nation into a melting pot a la Brazil, or the US. In nations such as these, the traditional classes that once held power become irrelevant. The last thing Japanese elites would want is a George Soros type to come in and mess things up.


    "You can’t exactly have feudalism back without lifetime employment;"

    Officially, feudalism ended in Japan with the Meiji Restoration in 1868. Within a half century Japan went from being a backwater feudal Shogunate to a respected Western-style nation. Was at least two generations ahead of China at that point (ca.1920).


    "you can’t have lifetime employment if you can’t demand people to sacrifice their lives for you; people don’t sacrifice their lives for their “masters” anymore, because that’s seen as wrong and backward."

    People will only sacrifice their lives for a company they feel is ultimately one of them. Foreign companies are not a part of historical Japan in the way that their own companies are.

    From 1952 when the US pulled out, to about 1990's, Japan's economic growth was spectacular. They built first rate cities, infrastructure, public transportation, cars, computers, fiber optics, etc. Their education and living standard became among the highest in the world, along with a high life span. All of these things were done, with very, very little foreign immigration. They've already proven that they didn't need to open their borders while they had absorbed the capitalist system, and really, they don't have any compelling reason to do so now.


    "So as you gradually take bricks from the foundations of their original social system, why is it surprising that everything else begins to crumble?"

    If this power structure wants to continue to wield power then their best interests is to keep Japan for the Japanese and foreigners out as much as possible.

    "The issue is that the corporate/governing elite like the powerful Nippon Kaigi group isn’t exactly just here to uphold your average workers as “family”; the trust of noblesse oblige from the elite to the traditional peasants, and yes, this is what has stretched for hundreds of years, has been gradually broken down by capitalism."

    Japan has had a form of capitalism for almost 75 yrs. The fact that the elites have managed to work within the system all this time and maintaining Japan's distinctive feature (no foreigners, period) testifies that the system's not broken and there's no need to fix it. In other words, during Japan's high economic growth decades of the mid and late 20th century, capitalism didn't change the ethnic makeup of the people. In fact, the country did just fine on its own without outside interference. "Japan for the Japanese", was and remains a pretty good concept.

    If the elites want to maintain their power, they'd better heed the examples of Western European nations that went from relatively mono-ethnic countries to multi-ethnics within a span of fifty yrs and what do they have to show for it? Basically, many cities are now "no go areas" due to high crime, potential terrorist nationals living among Western Nations, and other things such as these. How exactly has the UK and France, for example, benefitted from allowing in various foreigners? They now have diversity in their cuisine, but Japan has demonstrated that they can mimic quite well various ethnic cuisines without bringing in the populations that originally made the food. Aside from cuisine, its hard to think of major examples of what exactly Mid. Eastern/African immigrants have positively contributed to Western European nations that Western European nations own native born peoples weren't already contributing.

    Both the elites and working classes of Japan should observe how unchecked foreigners into these nations have caused once stable populations to destabilize, and learn the lessons whilst there's still time.
  205. @Opinionator
    Persons who did unlawful things in the Nazi period should well be ashamed

    Were the alleged things that German persons are supposed to be most ashamed of unlawful?

    “Were the alleged things that German persons are supposed to be most ashamed of unlawful?”

    I might get your point. They are now. Or were then, when this discussion took up speed, in the fifties.

  206. @Achmed E. Newman
    Yeah, Dieter, I didn't forget East Germany, but I would say the whole Eastern European side of the Iron Curtain had Communism forced on them from outside, so I just didn't lump it in with the stupidity of the others. I don't mean your average Russian, Chinese, or Cuban had it forced on them either, but the "great new idea" of "lets go Communist - what's it gonna hurt" originated inside those places.

    I assume you have seen "The Lives of Others", Dieter - great movie. Imagine what these types of people can do for control of our lives now, with a whole lot more electronics.

    uh, Achmed -“The Lives of Others”, good movie, ok. But hey: What about real life: I’ve been to the GDR numerous times – and at least one time, I had a special agent in the disguise of a tour guide with me day and night… She was nice and all, charming, good looking, too, Jana, but she was an agent. And quite a few of the writers we met – later turned out to be agents as well…And that was 1988, what made it a lot easier than it might have been in 78, because you could feel, that something strange is in the air.

    And I’ve smuggeld books into the GDR – I handed over the complete lyrics of Bob Dylan to Wolf Biermann in his home in the Chausseestraße – heartfully wellcomed by the bard – who was in a hurry and excused himself, that he couldn’t invite us in – because his wife was just about to deliver her first baby…

    And so forth.

    Your differentiation – ok, but: There were lots of Weimar communists, who dreamed of a GDR – and they helped the Nazis to destroy the Weimar Republic (following Lenin’s strict advise…) – and kinda succeeded in the…nightmarish…end of REAL SOCIALISM (Ulbricht).
    Two great novels about the late GDR: Land der Wunder, by Michael Klonovsky and: 1/3 of Franzen’s Purity. Both are highly recommended.

    Nobody would need the enormous masses (!!) of people anymore to install something like the GDR, because Internet etc., that’s true. I do feel a little creepy ervery once in a while, for posting my real name, if I think about this stuff.
    But only a little.

  207. @Daniel Chieh
    I don't have a "side" in this. I would prefer if countries could maintain their distinctive cultural and ethnic backgrounds, so in that sense, I would like to know if they could be uniquely and permanently resistant. What I am doing is observing, however, and I'm dubious that it actually works out like that.

    The wages are easy to increase when the profits for the elite were increasing too, and the challenges are the same as I mentioned before - when those profits are challenged by foreign competition, then the pressure falls upon the workers. You're assuming that the corporate elite has an exceeding concern for the concerns of their workers, a kind of the paternal attitude that they used to have back when they had lifetime employment. It isn't as much the case now at all, though.

    And in fact, I am taking in consideration of the unique cultural attitudes they have and which I'm actually familiar with - why else did I explain the issues with "high-trust corruption." That kind of cooperation and coordination is honestly pretty unique to Japan, where in almost any other country, rivals in business seek to undercut each other's margins.

    The issue is that the corporate/governing elite like the powerful Nippon Kaigi group isn't exactly just here to uphold your average workers as "family"; the trust of noblesse oblige from the elite to the traditional peasants, and yes, this is what has stretched for hundreds of years, has been gradually broken down by capitalism. The elite hasn't exactly allied themselves with Western elite, so its not quite as bad as in places that go full hog worshipping liberalism. But they have their own ideas, and look out for their own interests. They do care for Japan more than Western elite care for the West. But they still are an unique bloc to themselves and care for themselves most of all.

    And finally, that's also why its not an "election" issue, in large part because Japan isn't really reliant on public opinion. Its reliant on the overwhelming power of this elite, who basically from samurai families, so there's more or less a continuity of that power. Because they're not a real democracy, they can lash back against a lot of foreign pressure. But by the same token, this doesn't mean that they value their population in the same way they used to.

    You can't exactly have feudalism back without lifetime employment; you can't have lifetime employment if you can't demand people to sacrifice their lives for you; people don't sacrifice their lives for their "masters" anymore, because that's seen as wrong and backward. So as you gradually take bricks from the foundations of their original social system, why is it surprising that everything else begins to crumble?

    “I would prefer if countries could maintain their distinctive cultural and ethnic backgrounds, so in that sense, I would like to know if they could be uniquely and permanently resistant. What I am doing is observing, however, and I’m dubious that it actually works out like that.”

    And so far in Japan it has been working out as far as maintaining their distinct cultural/ethnic backgrounds.

    “And finally, that’s also why its not an “election” issue, in large part because Japan isn’t really reliant on public opinion. Its reliant on the overwhelming power of this elite, who basically from samurai families, so there’s more or less a continuity of that power. Because they’re not a real democracy, they can lash back against a lot of foreign pressure. But by the same token, this doesn’t mean that they value their population in the same way they used to.”

    And because the Samurai class remnant goes back into history, its loyalties to family, clan, and ultimately province and nation resides inward–to Japan, and not outward to Korea, China, etc. or “citizen of the world” claptrap.

    Don’t they have elections in Japan? I was under the impression that they do. Enough public opinion translates into votes, does it not? If the working classes perceive that noblesse oblige from the elites is no longer working, they may just look to the government to help assist them in keeping foreign workers out.

    Also, an elite group that wields power unofficially works best in a monocultural nation such as Japan. If the nation begins letting in more and more foreigners, then the power of the class of which you speak would plummet and they’d be no better off than the peons. This is quite simple: the newly arrived foreigners care nothing for and owe little to the traditional Japanese elites. Loyalty in this sense has historical ties and thus is ethnic based, not based in “global citizen”.

    When push comes to shove, this class elite sides with their own. They’re not going to willingly turn over their power and privileges and allow foreigners to transform the nation into a melting pot a la Brazil, or the US. In nations such as these, the traditional classes that once held power become irrelevant. The last thing Japanese elites would want is a George Soros type to come in and mess things up.

    “You can’t exactly have feudalism back without lifetime employment;”

    Officially, feudalism ended in Japan with the Meiji Restoration in 1868. Within a half century Japan went from being a backwater feudal Shogunate to a respected Western-style nation. Was at least two generations ahead of China at that point (ca.1920).

    “you can’t have lifetime employment if you can’t demand people to sacrifice their lives for you; people don’t sacrifice their lives for their “masters” anymore, because that’s seen as wrong and backward.”

    People will only sacrifice their lives for a company they feel is ultimately one of them. Foreign companies are not a part of historical Japan in the way that their own companies are.

    From 1952 when the US pulled out, to about 1990’s, Japan’s economic growth was spectacular. They built first rate cities, infrastructure, public transportation, cars, computers, fiber optics, etc. Their education and living standard became among the highest in the world, along with a high life span. All of these things were done, with very, very little foreign immigration. They’ve already proven that they didn’t need to open their borders while they had absorbed the capitalist system, and really, they don’t have any compelling reason to do so now.

    “So as you gradually take bricks from the foundations of their original social system, why is it surprising that everything else begins to crumble?”

    If this power structure wants to continue to wield power then their best interests is to keep Japan for the Japanese and foreigners out as much as possible.

    “The issue is that the corporate/governing elite like the powerful Nippon Kaigi group isn’t exactly just here to uphold your average workers as “family”; the trust of noblesse oblige from the elite to the traditional peasants, and yes, this is what has stretched for hundreds of years, has been gradually broken down by capitalism.”

    Japan has had a form of capitalism for almost 75 yrs. The fact that the elites have managed to work within the system all this time and maintaining Japan’s distinctive feature (no foreigners, period) testifies that the system’s not broken and there’s no need to fix it. In other words, during Japan’s high economic growth decades of the mid and late 20th century, capitalism didn’t change the ethnic makeup of the people. In fact, the country did just fine on its own without outside interference. “Japan for the Japanese”, was and remains a pretty good concept.

    If the elites want to maintain their power, they’d better heed the examples of Western European nations that went from relatively mono-ethnic countries to multi-ethnics within a span of fifty yrs and what do they have to show for it? Basically, many cities are now “no go areas” due to high crime, potential terrorist nationals living among Western Nations, and other things such as these. How exactly has the UK and France, for example, benefitted from allowing in various foreigners? They now have diversity in their cuisine, but Japan has demonstrated that they can mimic quite well various ethnic cuisines without bringing in the populations that originally made the food. Aside from cuisine, its hard to think of major examples of what exactly Mid. Eastern/African immigrants have positively contributed to Western European nations that Western European nations own native born peoples weren’t already contributing.

    Both the elites and working classes of Japan should observe how unchecked foreigners into these nations have caused once stable populations to destabilize, and learn the lessons whilst there’s still time.

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