The Unz Review: An Alternative Media Selection
A Collection of Interesting, Important, and Controversial Perspectives Largely Excluded from the American Mainstream Media
 TeasersiSteve Blog
"William," "Iceman," and "Iceman"
🔊 Listen RSS
Email This Page to Someone

 Remember My Information


Bookmark Toggle AllToCAdd to LibraryRemove from Library • BShow CommentNext New CommentNext New ReplyRead More
ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
These buttons register your public Agreement, Disagreement, Troll, or LOL with the selected comment. They are ONLY available to recent, frequent commenters who have saved their Name+Email using the 'Remember My Information' checkbox, and may also ONLY be used once per hour.
Ignore Commenter Follow Commenter
Search Text Case Sensitive  Exact Words  Include Comments
List of Bookmarks

Here’s an upcoming movie about using ancient DNA to de-extinct a Neanderthal:

“William” is a good name for a revivified caveman, since evolutionary theorist William D. Hamilton was known even to his rugby teammates as “Caveman.”

I recall an Unfrozen Caveman drama in 1984, Iceman, starring John Lone:

And here’s a 2019 Iceman about Otzi the Iceman:

Generally speaking, speculative fiction human nature movies don’t have a really good track record. For example, 2018’s Birthmarked about 1970s scientists Matthew Goode and Toni Collette trying to raise 3 kids the opposite of their genetic predilections to prove Nurture > Nature never really succeeded:

And the 2001 film Human Nature, with a screenplay by Charlie Kaufman and directed by Michel Gondry (the Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind team), was surprisingly ungood:

Hide 69 CommentsLeave a Comment
Commenters to FollowEndorsed Only
Trim Comments?
  1. DFH says:

    Just wait till he finds out who genocided his entire subspecies…….

    • Replies: @bomag
  2. Shouldn’t William the Neanderthal look more different? His body proportions look normal. He just has some weird facial features, like the brow.

    Also, would he really be able to speak as well as a normal human?

    It seems like they just wanted to have a story about a kind of weird-looking guy fitting in and avoided portraying realistically (to the extent that it’s possible) what it would be like for a Neanderthal living among homo sapiens in the present day.

  3. I truly hope he’s going to law school, so he can be an unfrozen caveman lawyer…

    • Replies: @Percy Gryce
  4. If John Podhoretz had been walking up and down the stairs of the Empire State Building like Mr. Otzi the iceman was walking up and down mountains, he wouldn’t have packed on all that winter weight. It’s reprllent.

    I don’t know what the oddsmakers in Vegas are saying about the chance of a no deal Brexit on the 29th of this month, but the odds of Podhoretz being heavier than he was in the fall is pretty good.

    Walking up mountains is good exercise, but coming down the mountain is hard on your lower body, especially if you’re carrying extra weight.

  5. bomag says:

    The battle to name the highest reparation amount will begin.

    • Replies: @Charles Pewitt
  6. LondonBob says:

    You forgot California Man, which also appears to be called Encino Man.

    • Replies: @guest
  7. Ron Perlman could play a cave man with little make up or prostetics.

  8. J.Ross says: • Website

    Insist that people know how dishonest this is.
    You already know that the talking point about Islamic terrorism not existing, and white supremacist violence being the challenge of the hour, is flat out lying. This short must-read tweet sequence (by way of Heartiste) lays out in specific detail how the lie works. Digest it and educate friends.
    –The liars rely on fraudulent groups like the ADL and SPLC for information.
    –The liars count violence in prison as white supremacist attacks upon public order and society at large. This is Lieutenant Lafayette Hubbard bravely torpedoing invisible Japanese vessels territory here. Nobody thinks that inmate A shanking inmate B is in the same ballpark as the Nazi takeover we’ve been warned about.
    –But wait — the liars don’t count prison violence — when the victim is white. If they did, the numbers would go all funny, because whites in prison are murdered more often than any other group. This fact is totally omitted to guarantee smooth calculation. This is lying too brazen for Scientology.
    –The evil Nazis are not being compared to Islamic terrorists at all, like everyone has been led to assume. A slight of hand is used with definitions (external control versus all-native organization) so the Nazis are literally in a class by themselves. In other words, they are the biggest threat in their class, because they are really the only thing in their class.
    –The called-for prevention of Nazism just happens to be the elimination of freedom of speech and the criminalization of right-wing politics.
    Read and share, the sales pitch for a Nazi-repelling rock is something a high schooler could see through. We must show this to Trump and threaten the total withdrawal of support if he tolerares this screamingly lazy dishonesty.

    • Agree: Almost Missouri
  9. “Generally speaking, speculative fiction human nature movies don’t have a really good track record.”

    But see The Quest for Fire: A 1981 film that correctly assumed H. sapiens derives, in part, from the mixture of multiple hominid ancestors. Also several scenes that are quite kinky, for the pruriently inclined.

    • Replies: @Cortes
    , @Jus' Sayin'...
  10. I had a classmate in high school who had the brow and the posture of the classic Neanderthal. He was not big, but strong and agile, and played on the school’s football team.
    He was a good student too, and is now a successful internist in northern California.

    I’ve never doubted that their genes were never entirely banished from our common genetic inheritance.

    • Replies: @dr kill
  11. @Buffalo Joe

    The movie nose guy from Raging Bull did a better job recreating Mr. Lamotta’s schnoz on De Niro than the movie nose guy did on his project on the Neanderthal nose from this William movie about a re-created Neanderthal.

    One of the worst Hollywood problems is skimping on the nose guy to spend in other areas of the production. Like the 737 Boeing Max cheap boobs who cooked up that wounded turkey by skimping on proper engineering and design. Keep the nose up! How the Hell do I that? Loud crashing sound and general mayhem on the ground.

    The Yellow Vests and the French military are going to go Neanderthal on Macron if he keeps pulling his treasonous crud in France.

  12. Cortes says:

    After the first screening of episode One, a colleague whose relationship with hygiene could’ve best been described as “estranged” was referred to as “Stig.” Occasionally I had to review some of his casework, following which it was necessary to undergo the “Full-Spectrum-Andromeda Strain” decontamination procedure.

  13. donut says: . Recoil in horror then like share and subscribe .

  14. @bomag

    The battle to name the highest reparation amount will begin.

    My battle with Andrew Yang over bidding up the UBI will be won by me, me thinks.

    The Pewitt Conjured Loot Portion is ten thousand dollars a month and Yang is offering up one paltry thousand dollars a month. The Yang Yacht is heading for the Second Battle of Midway, and my carriers shall sink it.

  15. Can’t wait for the movie about this guy’s life to come out:

    • Replies: @Pontius
    , @Tony
  16. @Shingas the Terrible

    I just looked on YouTube and couldn’t find any clips of Unfrozen Caveman Lawyer from SNL. I miss Phil Hartman a lot.

    • Replies: @guest
  17. Here’s a link to a site that destroys the attempt to anthropomorphize the neanderthal side branch. A race that lived almost solely on meat, strong as hell due to curvature of dense bones and attachments of tendons, ligaments and muscles but probably couldn’t throw a ball let alone a spear. Eyes massively large (probably for night vision) and set way up high on the skull, if this creature were to ever be born again, the doctors would be frightened out of the delivery room.

    Once again, Hollywood (and sometimes science) trying to say we’re all the same and can’t we just get along? No. We killed them because they were killing us. Seems somewhat relevant today…… ummmm.

    • Replies: @JerryC
    , @Almost Missouri
  18. evolutionary theorist William D. Hamilton was known even to his rugby teammates as “Caveman.

    There’s only one legit Caveman in rugby, and that’s Sébastien Chabal, who used to play lock and eighthman for France.

    • Replies: @Charles Pewitt
  19. @Federalist

    Yeah, he would have looked like Schwarzenegger in his prime, body wise. Pretty sure that any kid attempting to do the passive aggressive modern bully routine might have a real chance of being beaten to death by a freakishly strong teenage Neanderthal going through puberty.

  20. jb says:

    Given that Neanderthals were more distant from modern humans than any current human population is from any other, I’m pretty sure they didn’t look like standard issue white guys with prosthetic brow ridges. If you were to take one and put him in a suit on the subway I don’t think he would fit in at all — I think he would look strikingly different from anyone around him. (We still don’t even know for sure that they didn’t have fur!)

    Iceman looks more interesting, although if the whole thing is done in some made up ancient language that will be a bit of a drag. I wonder if they’ve found some inventive way to work in a black character?

    • Agree: Endgame Napoleon
  21. guest says:

    “Link” (full name Missing Link?) is a Stone Aged man who emerged in modern Encino of the early 1990s by happenstance rather than science.

    Much like teenaged Wolf Man, his primal instincts, physical prowess, and dancing ability made him a Cool Dude.

    • Replies: @Pericles
  22. guest says:
    @Percy Gryce

    “When I see a solar eclipse I think, ‘Oh no, is the moon eating the sun?”

    -lawyer who’s “just a caveman”

    • LOL: Percy Gryce
  23. JerryC says:
    @Too Observant

    And’re part Neanderthal yourself.

  24. guest says:
    @Buffalo Joe

    He was in Quest for Fire.

  25. guest says:

    “Imagine bringing to life our closest cousin.”

    I already have cousins, and I don’t think it’s worth the effort.

  26. Given the job slaughter of automation, humans will have to drum up some unexpected types of employment. I guess creating a Neanderthal qualifies as “high-skill” work that will be hard to automate, offshore or outsource. I don’t think this is fiction, actually. Underemployed scientists, in a Labor market with too many advanced-degree holders, have already created a bunch of Neanderthals, trying to make themselves stand out from the over-educated pack. All over the world, Neanderthals are shooting up crowds of people and acting like a bunch of half-human animals.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  27. songbird says:

    I am surprised that they did not try to make them both black.

    • Replies: @Truth
  28. @Buffalo Joe

    Ron Perlman could play a cave man with little make up or prostetics.

    Ron Perlman is a cave man. His brain is conclusive evidence thereof.

    • Replies: @Buffalo Joe
  29. @Uilleam Yr Alban

    After seeing “The Quest for Fire”, my sister-in-law told me that a better title might have been “Discovery of the Missionary Position”.

  30. Based on the trailer for the new Iceman movie, I’m thinking a better title might be “Invasion of the Yamnaya”.

  31. Oh, for the love of—Mr. Sailer even wrote the phrase!

    I gotta make all the obvious, smart-assed, embedded citations around here?!

  32. dr kill says:
    @Old Palo Altan

    The unibrow is pathonomonic.

  33. An addendum, if I may: YouTube is no more he universe of video than your nearest food-court is the universe of comestibles. Please stop reinforcing the oligopolies with this thinking.

    Apropos of oligopolies, however, in this instance the National Broadcasting Corporation hosts it’s own clips of all the stuff from Saturday Night Live, paying armies of lawyers to keep that stuff off YouTube and similar platforms precisely because the value of skits is especially corroded by infringed copyright. People won’t skip paying to watch Boyhood to try to get the gist of it from excerpts online, but they will indeed avoid all the stupid adverts surrounding skits they think are funny by watching those skits piecemeal, thus depriving the creator of its profit. (Yes, there are other avenues to make money while allowing ypur stuff on YouTube, but the beancounters at NBC so far deem their decision wisest…).

    TL;DR: If you ever want to find a skit from SNL, you can probably find and watch it (after an advert) via NBC’s dedicated site, but not usually via YouTube and the like.

    I’d always understood that if you dressed a Neanderthal in a suit and cut his hair, he’d pretty much look like just another guy within the range of phenotypes on a busy sidewalk, just maybe a little ugly or weird if one took a close look. The contrary ideas cited supra are interesting. One wonders if and when and how we’ll ever know for sure (cf. reveived wisdom about grains and meats for health, whether dinosaurs had feathers, and Pluto’s planetary status, among other such vacillating evidence…).

    If Neanderthals really were so very different and horrific as suggested by some, I cannot fathom fertile offspring from interbreeding, let alone any form of voluntary interbreeding. Do we know that all surviving DNA from Neanderthals in humans is patrilinear, as it would seem to have to be if it violent rape by prehistoric orcs is the source? Then, too, perhaps, if Neanderthals were so monstrous and alien they were also the seed for myths of giants, ogres, trolls, demons, goblins, and other such assorted bogeymen of our collective memory….

    • Replies: @Almost Missouri
  34. anonymous[253] • Disclaimer says:

    “The Good”, “The Bad”, and “The Ugly” did pretty good box office.

    If called “People are Not All the Same” would it have done as well?

  35. TS says:

    Real neanderthal skull:

    Many others were falsified and replaced by monkey/ape parts and deliberately broken and misshapen. The Amuds looks very similar (almost identical) to today’s geral high neanderthal% populace.

  36. Anon[367] • Disclaimer says:

    “His cognitive patterns don’t match any recognizable model. It’s not a question of intelligence. He’s unique.”

    Isn’t this the progressive, blank slate, everyone gets a trophy, IQ was invented by white (Asian?) supremacists, Wakanda science, way of thinking?

    There’s some alternate reality in which he would be the smart one and we’d be the dummies. Intelligence is just so culturally specific. Intelligence in other cultures is like a totally different thing.

    And if it weren’t for colonialism, black Africans would be populating the galaxy by now, using rockets of their own invention, no, rockets are too primitive, they would skip that stage and use their unique cognitive patterns to invent a non-rocket path to space, by throwing Wakanda spears into the sky trailing Wakana fiber, which would make space elevators.

  37. Anon[367] • Disclaimer says:

    Should the title of this post be “William, Iceman, and Birthmarked“? Iceman is repeated.

    • Replies: @Autochthon
    , @J.Ross
  38. @Anon

    I figured maybe he’d meant to type “iceberg.”

  39. J.Ross says: • Website

    Iceman is repeated because each iteration denotes a different movie (plus, if you change a post title once it sprouts comments, you’re pretty much crossing the streams).

  40. Anonymous[403] • Disclaimer says:
    @Endgame Napoleon

    Given the job slaughter of automation, humans will have to drum up some unexpected types of employment.

    Arthur Sellings wrote a novella dramatizing that very theme in his novella, The Category Inventors, which appeared in the February, 1956, issue of Galaxy magazine.
    Here, the story is dramatized as a radio play in the series X Minus One:

    • Replies: @Almost Missouri
  41. Pericles says:

    “Link” (full name Missing Link?) is a Stone Aged man who emerged in modern Encino of the early 1990s by happenstance rather than science.

    Well … no longer missing, right?

  42. Cortes says:

    The glorious Lee Marvin:

  43. Old Prude says:

    Bronze Age women were Hot. All that fur! I envy Ortiz. Except for the arrow in the side part…that not so much….

    • Replies: @Old Prude
  44. Old Prude says:

    I’ll never forget one commenter’s reply to the question of whether they could find a contemporary woman willing to have sex with a Neanderthal: Giselle Bundchen.

  45. @Anonymous

    The original is hosted here at Unz.

    Unfortunately, its copyright won’t expire for a few more decades, but Ron is playing the long game…

  46. Then there was the silly “Clan of the Cave Bear”, which was just an excuse for Director Michael Chapman and Producer Gerald Isenberg to get Darryl Hannah to prance around in skimpy leather loincloths and toss her blonde locks back and forth.

  47. There’s also the Night Stalker episode “Primal Scream” where primitive ape-like creatures spontaneously germinate from cell samples recovered from an Arctic expedition

  48. Mr. ANon says:

    Generally speaking, speculative fiction human nature movies don’t have a really good track record.

    I liked Altered States. I see that it didn’t do so well, in keeping with your observation.

    • Replies: @guest
  49. @Sergeant Prepper

    There’s only one legit Caveman in rugby, and that’s Sébastien Chabal, who used to play lock and eighthman for France.

    Reminds me of Mark Gastineau, who used to play football for the New York Jets.

    I wonder if Chabal is French and if Gastineau’s and Chabal’s ancestry can be traced back to the same region in France.

    • Replies: @Sergeant Prepper
  50. This post begs to be carresed with a gentle touch of six degrees of intersectional separation;

    Whereas bored identity strongly believes that congressman Altamira Green was, is, and will continue to be on the right side of prehistory:

    Whereas bored identity strongly denounces tiny voices of hate and division whose vicious claims that congressman Altamira Green can not be linked to the Ice People are not only hurting other prominent members of the Congressional Pakistan Caucus – such as a horrorable Sheila Jackson-Lee – but also serve as a daily reminder that Houston & We The People have a problem.


    Whereas the Congressional Pakistan Caucus leadership walks hard every day to address important issues effecting rights of vulnerable Pakistani community to learn more about the rich cultural heritage shared equally among Cricket & Lousy Drumming World Leaders :

    Whereas it’s a fact that your local CPC Pushers have more fun than a barrel of monkeys while legislating hard on behalf of that new neighbor who is joyfully galluping about the Constitution in your backyard :

  51. However, the Three Stooges’ Nature beats Nurture classic “Hoi Polloi” endures for over 80 years, and was recycled by them numerous times

  52. @SteveRogers42

    My grandfather was named William, had a prominent brow, and was known for airing impolitic truths. I’ve inherited all three, although William is only my middle name.

    Maybe it’s a thing.

    Very interesting last line in that trailer for Sailerites. I may catch the flick.

  53. @Charles Pewitt

    According to Wikipedia, Chabal’s family is from Ardèche in the Auvergne-Rhône-Alpes region of Southeast France. He always came across as being very proud of his French heritage – refused to do interviews in anything but French, that sort of thing. He was not huge by the standards of international rugby (6 ft 3 in, 250 lb), but he was strong and aggressive.

    Another rugby player who may pass as a present day Neanderthal is South Africa’s Eben Etzebeth. Now that’s a huge man: 6 ft 8 1⁄2 in, 271 lb. A few decades ago, his various uncles were notorious fighters around Cape Town.

    • Replies: @Tony
  54. @Federalist

    They were also much shorter than Cro-Magnons, but very strong. I read somewhere that a Neanderthal woman might have been as strong as a Cro-magnon man. Our protagonist might do very well on the college wrestling team, if wasn’t eliminated by title IX.

    They were tool users and actually had larger brains than modern humans, but lacked creativity. They used the same tools for hundreds of thousands of years, while their Cro-Magnon competition was always inventing new tools and making improvements to existing tools. So academically, it’s hard to imagine a cloned Neanderthal being successful in college.

  55. backup says:

    No way. William has a chin, hence he is no Archaic.

  56. guest says:
    @Mr. ANon

    I don’t know the exact limits of what constitutes “speculative fiction,” but that movie goes in an occult, Carlos Castaneda, magic mushroom trip direction and comes off as horror to me.

  57. @Charles Erwin Wilson 3

    Charles, I think I was first aware of him in the movie “The Name of the Rose.”

  58. @Autochthon

    “Do we know that all surviving DNA from Neanderthals in humans is patrilinear”

    AFAIK, all Neanderthal DNA so far discovered in us is neither Y-DNA nor Mitochondrial (though the Y-DNA source would seem more likely).

    Just as genetic testing can now discern that European males mostly descend from three forefathers, or that American Indian women descend from four foremothers, or that blue-eyed people descend from a single ur-mother, I do wonder if soon we may learn that all Neanderthal DNA in homo sapiens descends from a handful of Neanderthal individuals. In other words, while the popular press has been pushing the stone-age-was-a-total-sapiens-neanderthal-orgy theme (which just coincidentally corresponds to Current Year mandatory race-mixing propaganda), the reality is that all living Neanderthal DNA comes from just two or three hybrid individuals suffered to be adopted into paleolithic sapiens tribes.

  59. @Too Observant

    That was in interesting web link.

    It does seem like a “coincidence” that at the same time as the elites are mass importing hostile foreigners, academics are mass retconning ancient hostile foreigners into cute cuddly interbreeders.

  60. Pontius says:

    Poor Oetzi, roasting in hell because he didn’t worship the right god.

  61. Tony says:

    Later for him. I’d rather see a movie about Chuck the iceman Liddel.

Current Commenter

Leave a Reply - Comments are moderated by iSteve, at whim.

 Remember My InformationWhy?
 Email Replies to my Comment
Submitted comments become the property of The Unz Review and may be republished elsewhere at the sole discretion of the latter
Subscribe to This Comment Thread via RSS Subscribe to All Steve Sailer Comments via RSS
What Was John McCain's True Wartime Record in Vietnam?
Are elite university admissions based on meritocracy and diversity as claimed?