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From the NYT editorial page:

The Kushners and Their Golden Visas

The president’s in-laws promise Chinese investors green cards. The real scandal is that it’s legal.

By THE EDITORIAL BOARD

MAY 8, 2017

The Kushner family has been caught in a shameless act of name-dropping. It has been highlighting its White House connections to entice wealthy Chinese investors and promising them green cards in return under a special government visa program. That’s pretty bad. But it’s also a scandal that Congress allows real estate developers to use the American immigration system to pad their profits.

It’s almost as if the press has gotten back to work after its 8 year sabbatical puttering around as Obama Administration PR interns.

By the way, I’m not wholly against the EB-5 investment visa program on principle, but I think $500,000 is about two orders of magnitude too cheap. I think $500k would be too little even if it were paid directly to the U.S. Treasury.

 
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  1. Read More
    • Replies: @Neoconned
    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/why-nar-will-never-be-prosecuted-facilitating-money-laundering


    The National Association of Realtors is immune from federal money laundering laws.

    One of the reasons the Bay Area & Manhattan are sitting on oceans of excess cash right now.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  2. By the way, I’m not wholly against the EB-5 investment visa program on principle, but I think $500,000 is about two orders of magnitude too cheap. I think $500k would be too little even if it were paid directly to the U.S. Treasury.

    Maybe, but I’m not thrilled about the importation of billionaire Russian oligarchs, either. They bring massive amounts of money and an ethical approach that makes Bill Clinton and Harry Reid look like saints.

    In general I’d rather have talented foreigners of merely above average wealth than some of the crooks who end up coming here under a program like EB-5.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Maj. Kong
    I believe Russian oligarchs are camped out in the UK because their ill-gotten gains are exempt from taxation. The US tax law considers itself entitled to money "earned" anywhere in the world.
    , @MW
    Are talented foreigners any better than below-average foreigners? We seem to be at a point where good jobs do not scale with population size, so inviting people who will out-compete the native-born is problematic. I see plenty of wasted native talent, much of it actively poisoning themselves, and I suspect these trends are not unrelated. People frequently rise to meet new responsibilities.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  3. From what I observe in Vancouver, they would still pay it.

    A couple less Bentleys, whatever.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter Display All Comments
  4. We should auction permanent resident visas. Say 325,000 per year, or .001 of the current US population. How much might they bring? Say $300,000 each. That’s for each person. A family of five pays $1,500,000. That’s $97.5 billion a year. Look at the benefits: no more immigration lawyers, no more immigration judges. No more H-1B visas.
    Would these immigrants be well behaved? Should any be convicted of a felony, he loses his visa, his $300,000 and gets deported after serving his sentence.
    We can only wish.
    I oppose the current EB-5 program. As currently run it is a scam.

    Read More
    • Disagree: Opinionator
    • Replies: @Opinionator
    Our birthright for a mess of pottage.
    , @Brutusale
    Auction means auction. $300K is the opening bid.
    , @Neoconned
    Pittsburgh Thatcherite proposed a similar program....

    Auction off citizenship, i like the program.....
    , @bored identity
    Five Rules of US Whoring-Citizenship:

    1.) We Will ALWAYS charge you more than bankrupt-prone Cyprus, sh*tty Bulgaria, or microorganismistic Malta.

    When you think of USA, I want you to think of Big Shiny Singapore on the Top of the Hill.

    You dare to ask why?

    Well, you just failed the first step of application process; good luck with your new Latvian passport that you just obtained for a paltry € 35.000!*

    * I' m certainly sure that your wife and kids will appreciate your art of deal mentality once when Vlad's T- 90 Pig Iron starts caterpillaring Riga's pavements.

    2.) Extended Family Members are not to be considered for the US citizenship under existing Immigration Laws for a minimum of 15 years after you had been approved for your own Whoring- Citizenship.

    3.)Being able to pass The Cricket Test is Must.
    Here, in USA, we call it :
    "Do Not Wave a Flag of Your Country of Origin During Qualifier Soccer Match Between Younameistan and Your New Homeland."
    Is that really too much to ask, [email protected]?


    4.) Your Whoring Citizenship could be revoked at any time if you commit any other crime besides jaywalking.


    5.) No Twofersisms;
    You will not be allowed to keep your previous, or obtain citizenship of any other country* besides USA.
    *Having a Citizenship of Self Proclaimed America's Eternally Allied State will not help you to be excluded from this clause.

    Current Citizenship Exchange Price List:

    https://assets.weforum.org/editor/uhf_fFfE0IPa40sh20aSRiwuKE3jp5xGeQ4o0SLbY8Y.jpg
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  5. @George Weinbaum
    We should auction permanent resident visas. Say 325,000 per year, or .001 of the current US population. How much might they bring? Say $300,000 each. That's for each person. A family of five pays $1,500,000. That's $97.5 billion a year. Look at the benefits: no more immigration lawyers, no more immigration judges. No more H-1B visas.
    Would these immigrants be well behaved? Should any be convicted of a felony, he loses his visa, his $300,000 and gets deported after serving his sentence.
    We can only wish.
    I oppose the current EB-5 program. As currently run it is a scam.

    Our birthright for a mess of pottage.

    Read More
    • Agree: Federalist, Daniel H
    • Replies: @415 reasons
    Right now we're not even getting the mess of pottage
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  6. @Opinionator
    Our birthright for a mess of pottage.

    Right now we’re not even getting the mess of pottage

    Read More
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  7. Well I haven’t looked at or thought through any of the economics. I want to say maybe $500,000 is one order of magnitude too cheap, as opposed to two? As the article points out, at most 10,000 of these are granted each year, and I believe roughly 80% or so of the EB-5 visas are handed out to mainland Chinese. Are there numbers for what people actually end up investing? I’m sure some invest more than the minimum required?

    By the way, one hardly needs to credit Trump for getting the liberal establishment to bash Asians. As I’ve long been saying, Asian bashing in this country is as American as baseball or apple pie. It’s one of the few things that unites both white liberals and white conservatives, as well as the black and Hispanic American populations. It used to be most virulently directed towards the Japanese, but these days is increasingly directed towards the Chinese and maybe to a lesser extent the Koreans.

    As a Chinese American, one of the most harrowing things about living in this country is the shocking disdain, oftentimes bordering on hatred, that white, black, and Hispanic Americans harbor towards people of East Asian descent.

    Read More
    • Troll: Opinionator
    • Replies: @Opinionator
    As I’ve long been saying, Asian bashing in this country is as American as baseball or apple pie. It’s one of the few things that unites both white liberals and white conservatives, as well as the black and Hispanic American populations.

    Please dude. If you've long been saying that, you've long been wrong, if you are speaking of East and Southeast Asians. I have witnessed nothing of that, and I am aware of nothing of that, other than black hostility to certain local Asians. (I don't dismiss the possibility what you say existed with respect to Japanese during WW2 or even with respect to Chinese during the Vietnam War.)

    Nowadays, no. There is a fear of "China" or "the Chinese" as a rival, competitor, or thief, but those concepts refer to an alien almost abstract entity that is tied to China itself and its government. People here can speak of "the Chinese" in front of an American of Chinese descent and not for a moment link that American with "the Chinese."

    , @JohnnyWalker123
    Being Asian-American is a very good deal.

    -You disproportionately live on America's best real estate (NYC, San Francisco, LA, San Diego, Orange County, Hawaii).
    -You're wildly overrepresented at elite universities.
    -You have extremely good stats with respect to income, education, incarceration, and family life.
    -Now you guys are starting to break into Hollywood and pro-sports (NBA, NHL, MLB, NFL, MMA, boxing, Olympics).
    , @Lot
    Harrowing? Really? And yet Asians by the hundreds of millions would love to move here. The people who really "disdain and hate" Asians are other Asians. Mao's famines and Pol Pot's massacres are not something you much have to worry about from Americans. The Chinese in Burma and Indonesia however keep their bug out bags close.
    , @Escher
    I know. You would rather be breathing in the freedom and clean air of Beijing instead.
    , @Tiny Duck
    Exactly. White supremacy is diverse in its hatred
    , @Sunbeam
    "As a Chinese American, one of the most harrowing things about living in this country is the shocking disdain, oftentimes bordering on hatred, that white, black, and Hispanic Americans harbor towards people of East Asian descent."

    Well ok.

    Tell you what, explain to me how I, a non-Chinese, benefits from Chinese immigration to this country.

    Then explain to me, hypothetically that is, what negative aspects would there be to all Chinese in America suddenly deciding to pack up and go home?

    Actually I'd like you to detail why an America free of Chinese wouldn't be a better place for me to live?

    I really don't think your impression of hatred towards Chinese people exists in this country. But maybe it should.

    Comment on the pattern of overseas Chinese becoming very unpopular in any of the countries they settled in over the years. Do you think there is any reason why this became a pattern?

    And why should the US become another country that repeats the same process?
    , @MW
    "Shocking" implies that you expected otherwise. And that's fair - we say loudly that we don't discriminate, and that if you work hard and play by the rules and treat others well, you will be rewarded. Which is true up to a point - living decently still gets you a comfortable material life in the USA, regardless of your ethnicity.

    But if you are interested in that other great class of scarce goods which society metes out - attention, respect, adulation, prestige, etc - well, American society isn't too self-aware about just what it values. So you'll have to figure that one out for yourself.

    I'd prefer the Chinese approach - we should treat foreigners well, but let's be very clear upfront that foreigners are foreigners and they shouldn't expect to be treated as equals. Instead, we pretend to be above such petty tribalism - which ostensibly is kindness to people such as yourself, but clearly in practice it is no such thing.
    , @Cloudbuster
    If it's so harrowing living here, please, go back to China, for your own safety.
    , @nebulafox
    You know what Friedrich Nietzsche said about anti-Semitism being the ideology of those who feel cheated? I occasionally wonder if anti-Asian sentiment is something similar.
    , @Erik Sieven
    most antiracist and lefties actually dislike East Asians. They do it for similar reasons for why they dislike Jews: both are just whiter than whites.
    , @Moshe
    Sure , but outside of San Francisco aren't they mainly people that consider the rest of us complete and total aliens?

    There are Chinatowns in every major city, in many of which - INCLUDING NEW YORK!! - the locals not only don't speak English but are actively OPPOSED to having any sort of interaction with non-Chinese people if it doesn't make them money.

    Remember that video of a little girl RUN OVER in China and OVER A HUNDRED Chinese passed by before one person cared to call an ambulance?

    In San Francisco I saw a Chinese person go out of his way to give a shit-encrusted hobo a banana. It was at night on a daek street and he certainly didn't think anyone was watching him.

    It blew my mind.

    I took a picture from a distance and then walked over to him to share how deeply moved I was. And we agreed that this wasn't a very ordinary thing for a Chinese person to do.

    But he did, and it moved me.

    Then look at the nouveau rich Chinese visitors and pseudo-citizens, many of whom obviously made their money in dirty dirty ways. When they aren't ignoring Americans they tend to be rude to Americans.

    What percentage of Chinese earnings go to charity of any kind? Even to a charity designed to help bring in more Chinese?

    You know how poor Chinese end up in America? I'll tell you. I lived in Flushing, NYC and had numerous conversations with Chinese people (all pleasant, when I'm not on the internet I'm actually a pretty loving guy :) ).

    And here's what I learned about the young girl "masseuses".

    Some rich Chinaman goes to their godforsaken poor poor village and shows everyone videos of America paved with gold. EASY MONEY EVERYWHERE.

    All it will take is $50,000 to sneak them in, make fake marriages, blah blah blah and pay the guy's fee.

    The whole town raises the money. She's a native daughter and she will be taught English, make huge money and be the savior of the village.

    But of course there is the fine print and the no print.

    The no print is that hwr new owner will ensure that she does not go to achool and does not learn English. She must be dependant on him and whomever he sells her to, forever.

    Until 26 or so she will jerk old Chinese men off.

    Then she will breathe toxic vapors in a nail salon for the next few decades.

    The fine print is that there are - of course - hidden costs.

    Which - of course - on a minimum wage salary (plus 20% of tips!) she will never be able to repay.

    Her passport is gone.

    Then there are the Chinese busses to casinos that turn over with regularity and where White people are LITERALLY sent to the back of the bus.

    They aren't violent. And that is a BIG PLUS.

    But who needa them here? Heck, who needs ANYONE here?

    Those Injuns who worked with the settlers were traitors. And look at the result!

    Thoae who subsequently imported cheap French labor, German labor, Irish labor, Polish labor, Jewish labor, Chinese labor, Hatian labor, Indonesian labor, Mexican labor...

    In every single instance they were traitors to their co-inhabitants.

    We don't need new people. We never did.

    And we espescially don't need scary people like the Chinese.

    Except for that fellow in San Francisco and other, similarly moral, people. Not that we need them either but if we're stupid enough to import anyone I don't mind those types.

    But good damn luck finding them!

    , @Neoconned
    Being a Japanophile, i dont dislike Asians.

    If anything i often prefer their company to that of my drama prone addict/drunk white trash relatives & neighbors.
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  8. Wholly against.

    There’s no longer good reason to suppose that someone who comes here does so to join us, rather than to exploit, conquer, or colonize us.

    Read More
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  9. The bien-pensants are only interested in immigrants if they are wretched, infected, helpless and a costly burden… in other words more clients for their vision of affirmatively furthering vibrant multicultural welfare dependence and dysfunction.

    More folks like a Jewish godfather of microelectronics & semiconductors Andy Grove, a great entrepreneurial African-American Elon Musk or gay investor angel Peter Thiel? No thanks. Diversity of excellence, achievement and self-sufficiency isn’t their way.

    I’ve spoken to a number of Somali & East African immigrants in my progressive leftopia. Many of the men I see lounging all day in the cafes and public pools and saunas. A few have complained how unsatisfied they are with the health care… For example full psychotherapy and pharmaceutical treatment for chronic depression just hasn’t been successful…

    Too bad those born as Americans don’t get that kind of medical treatment privileges.

    I’m waiting for a video meme based on the Somali Pirate from Captain Philips, but changing his words to “I’m your Uber driver now.”

    Read More
    • Agree: Almost Missouri
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  10. No matter the amount of cash required for the EB-5 visa, as it admits foreigners who have the lucre to give themselves and their children dual citizenship, abolish the EB-5. The foreigners who come here on it are not investing in the United States, not investing in Americans: they’re investing in themselves and in the Globali$t gravy trough.

    The EB-5 is just another way for the Globali$t Open Border$ $ellout E$tabli$hment to beef up its elite members’ Globali$t power over us ordinary Americans.

    Read More
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  11. I’d establish an entrepreneur visa for investing $5 million. I’d limit it to the manufacturing, software, engineering, R&D, and healthcare sectors. We need to make sure the businesses are legitimate and significantly beneficial (not Chinese restaurants or real estate scams). There’d also be requirements to pay decent wages (no sweatshop labor) and employ American-born citizens (not co-ethnic foreigners or family members).

    Read More
    • Replies: @unpc downunder
    This seems to be something Anglosphere economists fail to understand. Selling real estate to foreigners is not creating wealth, it's just selling off assets. And Asian restaurants just redistribute wealth from natives to immigrants. Foreigners only create wealth if they actually built, or at least invest in, wealth creating industries.

    From a western perspective, the idea that all economic activity is beneficial economic activity is one of the most destructive ideas of the modern era.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  12. @Yan Shen
    Well I haven't looked at or thought through any of the economics. I want to say maybe $500,000 is one order of magnitude too cheap, as opposed to two? As the article points out, at most 10,000 of these are granted each year, and I believe roughly 80% or so of the EB-5 visas are handed out to mainland Chinese. Are there numbers for what people actually end up investing? I'm sure some invest more than the minimum required?

    By the way, one hardly needs to credit Trump for getting the liberal establishment to bash Asians. As I've long been saying, Asian bashing in this country is as American as baseball or apple pie. It's one of the few things that unites both white liberals and white conservatives, as well as the black and Hispanic American populations. It used to be most virulently directed towards the Japanese, but these days is increasingly directed towards the Chinese and maybe to a lesser extent the Koreans.

    As a Chinese American, one of the most harrowing things about living in this country is the shocking disdain, oftentimes bordering on hatred, that white, black, and Hispanic Americans harbor towards people of East Asian descent.

    As I’ve long been saying, Asian bashing in this country is as American as baseball or apple pie. It’s one of the few things that unites both white liberals and white conservatives, as well as the black and Hispanic American populations.

    Please dude. If you’ve long been saying that, you’ve long been wrong, if you are speaking of East and Southeast Asians. I have witnessed nothing of that, and I am aware of nothing of that, other than black hostility to certain local Asians. (I don’t dismiss the possibility what you say existed with respect to Japanese during WW2 or even with respect to Chinese during the Vietnam War.)

    Nowadays, no. There is a fear of “China” or “the Chinese” as a rival, competitor, or thief, but those concepts refer to an alien almost abstract entity that is tied to China itself and its government. People here can speak of “the Chinese” in front of an American of Chinese descent and not for a moment link that American with “the Chinese.”

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  13. @Yan Shen
    Well I haven't looked at or thought through any of the economics. I want to say maybe $500,000 is one order of magnitude too cheap, as opposed to two? As the article points out, at most 10,000 of these are granted each year, and I believe roughly 80% or so of the EB-5 visas are handed out to mainland Chinese. Are there numbers for what people actually end up investing? I'm sure some invest more than the minimum required?

    By the way, one hardly needs to credit Trump for getting the liberal establishment to bash Asians. As I've long been saying, Asian bashing in this country is as American as baseball or apple pie. It's one of the few things that unites both white liberals and white conservatives, as well as the black and Hispanic American populations. It used to be most virulently directed towards the Japanese, but these days is increasingly directed towards the Chinese and maybe to a lesser extent the Koreans.

    As a Chinese American, one of the most harrowing things about living in this country is the shocking disdain, oftentimes bordering on hatred, that white, black, and Hispanic Americans harbor towards people of East Asian descent.

    Being Asian-American is a very good deal.

    -You disproportionately live on America’s best real estate (NYC, San Francisco, LA, San Diego, Orange County, Hawaii).
    -You’re wildly overrepresented at elite universities.
    -You have extremely good stats with respect to income, education, incarceration, and family life.
    -Now you guys are starting to break into Hollywood and pro-sports (NBA, NHL, MLB, NFL, MMA, boxing, Olympics).

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  14. As a Chinese American, one of the most harrowing things about living in this country is the shocking disdain, oftentimes bordering on hatred, that white, black, and Hispanic Americans harbor towards people of East Asian descent.

    Blacks are stupid and tribal and most of them are completely uncivilizable, so it’s hopeless to expect them to behave decently toward you. They act that way with everyone, including other blacks.

    Hispanics largely form an underclass with its own culture and rules. They’re not nearly as recalcitrant as blacks are, but they’re suspicious of outsiders and fairly cagey. They are actually envious of White culture and would gladly pass for White if they could, but it takes several generations of living in America to dissolve the Mexican cultural baggage. Some of them get impatient and try to overcome their feelings of inferiority by being pushy and aggressive, and these are the ones likely to develop a racial grievance. In any case, Mexicans have a hard time dealing with strangers unless they grasp that there’s something in it for them.

    I have not noticed my fellow Whites directing hatred at Chinese in any systematic fashion, except in certain limited cases. If you find this to be a recurring experience, please allow me to make some suggestions. The most important thing is not to be demanding or impolite. For some reason, Whites find uppity Asians to be very irritating. This is especially true in money matters. Do not be a skinflint; do not haggle over minor details; America isn’t a Hong Kong fish market. Sure, you might end up getting a less than perfect deal, but this is the price you must pay for living in social harmony among us. Also, don’t try to find common ground with rednecks, jocks, or working class women, because they won’t take you seriously. Cultivate friendships with SWPL professionals instead. They will accept you and will generally give you a fair hearing. You should affect to be slightly poorer than you really are rather than better off; and whatever you do, don’t let your teenage children go hot-rodding around in those souped up rice burners. These simple rules should go a long way toward making your American dream a reality.

    Read More
    • Agree: Kevin C.
    • Replies: @FKA Max
    You should affect to be slightly poorer than you really are rather than better off; and whatever you do, don’t let your teenage children go hot-rodding around in those souped up rice burners.

    Chinese Kids Driving Supercars: Inside the Secret Southern California Meet-up

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sH8sSKwS_gU

    She is also “besties” with Ivanka Trump. How much does she influence Ivanka and Jared, who in turn then influence Donald Trump?:

    But Deng and Ivanka have a long history together. In fact, Deng is reportedly responsible for re-uniting Ivanka and her husband, Jared Kushner, who broke up in 2008 when their religious differences caused them to split. A new New Yorker profile of the couple relays how Deng invited Jared for a weekend on the Murdoch family yacht. “You’re working so hard. Come with Rupert and me on the boat for the weekend,” she said. He showed up without knowing that Deng had also invited Ivanka. Trump later converted to Judaism, and the couple married in 2009.
     
    - http://www.unz.com/jthompson/lifestyle-advice/#comment-1809777

    Deng was plugged right in: she helped Murdoch with the purchase of the Wall Street Journal; she made connections with the highest echelons of the Chinese power pyramid; she restored a vast house in Beijing and revamped an enormous triplex on Fifth Avenue that had previously been owned by Laurance Rockefeller -
a house she later got in the divorce.
    [...]
    One phone call and it's done. Wendi can open so many doors - especially with the growing importance of Asia.' She is, he adds, 'a rainmaker' - though one mainland Chinese source says 'it's not that Wendi's fallen from grace, but she has lost some respect with the Chinese. She still has a great range of contacts and is obviously very well off, but people gave her more respect when she was married.' (The same source adds that Deng's looks are not the sort that Chinese men find particularly attractive.)
     
    - http://www.tatler.com/news/articles/july-2016/the-truth-about-wendi-deng-vladimir-putin
    , @Corvinus
    "Blacks are stupid and tribal and most of them are completely uncivilizable."

    Praytell, how would you define "civilized"? What metrics are involved here?

    "so it’s hopeless to expect them to behave decently toward you. They act that way with everyone, including other blacks."

    Quite the contrary, those darkies in my neighborhood and whom I interact with on a daily basis are honest and decent.

    "They are actually envious of White culture and would gladly pass for White if they could, but it takes several generations of living in America to dissolve the Mexican cultural baggage."

    That would be projection on your part.

    "Some of them get impatient and try to overcome their feelings of inferiority by being pushy and aggressive, and these are the ones likely to develop a racial grievance. In any case, Mexicans have a hard time dealing with strangers unless they grasp that there’s something in it for them."

    Actually, you are describing people in general, which could include Mexicans.

    "I have not noticed my fellow Whites directing hatred at Chinese in any systematic fashion, except in certain limited cases."

    I have also noticed my fellow whites not directing hatred at blacks or Hispanics in any systematic fashion, either.

    "If you find this to be a recurring experience, please allow me to make some suggestions."

    Thanks, but no thanks.
    , @Old fogey
    Why not just suggest to Chinese complaining about American society that they can always move to another country and try their luck there?
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  15. Whiskey says: • Website

    Yan Shen, if you don’t like this country, seriously why not move to China or Japan (well Japan would not let you in). There is also Thailand, Indonesia, Malaysia, and the Philippines, where you would not have to see one White face from one day to the next.

    I suspect you will like White people* a lot less when they simply copy Mexicans, and try to make the United States as unlivable as Mexico, simply to drive the foreigners out and keep up with the highly aggressive Africans and Muslims being imported by the Oligarchs.

    It is pretty clear now that no one in the West will be able to vote their way out of disaster, and the future of the US is basically South Africa, with a hostile non-White majority government and enthusiastic endorsement of most White women. But White men can be very good at fighting particularly in sustained actions that historically broke other peoples: WWI trench warfare, WWII Island campaigns, etc. The fatal flaw of White beta males in individual contests against Warrior types is completely flipped in grinding attrition actions like Okinawa or the Somme.

    Now that I think of it, best for all Asians to simply leave the US for the safety of the Chinese monoculture. Shanghai is much better, I think.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Karl
    15 whiskey > Yan Shen, if you don’t like this country, seriously why not move to China or Japan

    But then, how would he get a half-Jew grandchild ? You know, the kind of people who can see what's NOT there yet.... and invent it. And sell the invention.


    It wasn't the Chinese half of the zuckermann's who dreamed up the idea that mad all the money.

    And it CERTAINLY wasn't her who ruthlessly pushed aside, every living obstacle.
    , @Yan Shen
    I think you fundamentally misunderstand the point I'm trying to make. I'm actually happy with the United States and with the people here! My only point was that white, black, and Hispanic Americans, as evidenced by their racism towards East Asians, don't really reciprocate the same kind of decency that East Asian Americans exhibit towards their fellow countrymen.

    East Asians in this country by and large skew towards STEM and eschew the sort of identity politics and other kinds of nonsense that seem to be par for the course for black, Hispanic, and white Americans. They strive not to antagonize and instead aim to direct focus towards the good and useful things in life. I mean uh, we all remember the Asian guy in the library right? Hey, hey, hey, hey. This is library. At least when those awful Chinese take over this poor country, your children will get the privilege of being able to study in nice and quiet libraries, instead of having to listen to idiot leftists spouting the usual postmodern nonsense.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DHhy2Gk_xik

    To me that incident summed up everything wrong with non-East Asian America. Indeed, Tiger Mother wrote her book motivated by the recognition of the increasing schism between Confucian and non-Confucian ethos in modern day American society.

    Now, to get back to my main point, Asian bashing in this country has a rich history, going back to at least World War 2. It's one of the few things that unites both liberal and conservative whites. No need to suggest that left wing hatred of Trump somehow managed to corrupt even saintly progressives into being anti-Chinese. For at least the past 70 years, white liberals have been some of the biggest anti-East Asian racists in the world! As I've stated, this is a part of a general trend whereby it's basically considered acceptable to denigrate and dehumanize East Asians in this country in a way that we wouldn't countenance any other ethnic group. Yeah sure, white progressives always seem to have it in for those racist white conservatives, some will counter-argue, but at least the supposed racists are still fundamentally considered to be human and in theory capable of being redeemed from sin. As John Dower pointed out in his book War Without Mercy, in America, "all that was lacking in the perception of the Japanese enemy was a human like oneself".

    So where do we go from here, when one group of Americans clearly exhibits a greater sense of decency towards their fellow countrymen than do the others? That's the fundamental question that I pose. How can a multi-ethnic society survive when its fractured by hatred?

    , @Yan Shen
    Sorry, forgot to mention one final thing. Recommending that someone of Chinese ancestry immigrate to Southeast Asia in some respects shows a laughable sense of history and a lack of understanding of HBD. I mean uh a cursory reading of World on Fire by Amy Chua more or less tells you all you need to know about how great things have been historically for the Chinese in places like Thailand and the Philippines as far as race relations go...
    , @Anon
    Is the inference here that whites are better at attritional warfare than chinese? Get a calculator and do some dividing to get the required casualty exchanges to make that work.

    Or pick up a history book about the Korean War. My grandfather was a naval aviator with pretty chilling stories about covering the Marine Corps retreat from Chosin. The impression I gathered from them was that the Chinese weren't overly attached to their lives.
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  16. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    I don’t want any more Andy Groves, Elon Musks or Peter Thiels. I’d rather they stayed home and built their own countries up. I would love nothing more than to have someone compete hard with the US in the businesses of jet engines, locomotives, semiconductor process equipment and medical electronics. It would shave corporate profits here with few blue-collar and working-white-collar job losses and make us focus om mow and medium end manufacturing which creates more jobs.

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  17. This investment program has done Canada (Vancouver) no good. The Chinese doing the investing aren’t setting up Silicon Valley North. They made their money through kleptocracy and the “investment” is in commercial and home real estate. Real estate lawyers, immigration lawyers, corporate lawyers have all made a lot of money. No one else has benefitted from the investment

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    • Agree: BenKenobi
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  18. Lot says:
    @Yan Shen
    Well I haven't looked at or thought through any of the economics. I want to say maybe $500,000 is one order of magnitude too cheap, as opposed to two? As the article points out, at most 10,000 of these are granted each year, and I believe roughly 80% or so of the EB-5 visas are handed out to mainland Chinese. Are there numbers for what people actually end up investing? I'm sure some invest more than the minimum required?

    By the way, one hardly needs to credit Trump for getting the liberal establishment to bash Asians. As I've long been saying, Asian bashing in this country is as American as baseball or apple pie. It's one of the few things that unites both white liberals and white conservatives, as well as the black and Hispanic American populations. It used to be most virulently directed towards the Japanese, but these days is increasingly directed towards the Chinese and maybe to a lesser extent the Koreans.

    As a Chinese American, one of the most harrowing things about living in this country is the shocking disdain, oftentimes bordering on hatred, that white, black, and Hispanic Americans harbor towards people of East Asian descent.

    Harrowing? Really? And yet Asians by the hundreds of millions would love to move here. The people who really “disdain and hate” Asians are other Asians. Mao’s famines and Pol Pot’s massacres are not something you much have to worry about from Americans. The Chinese in Burma and Indonesia however keep their bug out bags close.

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    • Replies: @Yan Shen
    You often hear people on this blog complain about the "hordes" of Asians in this country. Let me just use the terms Chinese and Asian synonymously here to make things a little simpler. I've stated before that such complaints lack a fundamental sense of numeracy.

    There are something like 5 million Chinese who live in the United States versus 1.38 billion Chinese in mainland China. So the ratio of US to mainland Chinese is somewhere around 0.36%. It only feels like there are "hordes" of Asians in this country because of the disproportionate impact that East Asian Americans have in the US.

    If you look at the actual numbers, given that there are something like 1.6 billion or so people in East Asia, there aren't really all that many East Asians living in the West. The few that are are basically concentrated in a handful of Anglosphere countries. Probably the biggest draw for Chinese to come to the US these days is for higher education, but as I've noted in other threads, the numbers are declining and an increasing percentage of people who do come over are returning home for reasons of both cultural affinity and job opportunity.

    I've argued that as China further develops, it'll probably follow the same immigration pattern as Japan, with the noted caveat that Japanese do tend to be somewhat more insular. I could be wrong, but to me Chinese studying in the United States doesn't seem all that different from say 100-150 years ago, when Americans would study overseas in Europe in non-trivial numbers.

    , @map
    Asians qualify for minority development business loans under EO 11625. Get rid of that and few would come here.
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  19. Trump Wines is a regular user of unskilled ag labor visas. Sounds like a opportunity for an investigative journalist.

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    • LOL: Opinionator
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  20. @Intelligent Dasein

    As a Chinese American, one of the most harrowing things about living in this country is the shocking disdain, oftentimes bordering on hatred, that white, black, and Hispanic Americans harbor towards people of East Asian descent.
     
    Blacks are stupid and tribal and most of them are completely uncivilizable, so it's hopeless to expect them to behave decently toward you. They act that way with everyone, including other blacks.

    Hispanics largely form an underclass with its own culture and rules. They're not nearly as recalcitrant as blacks are, but they're suspicious of outsiders and fairly cagey. They are actually envious of White culture and would gladly pass for White if they could, but it takes several generations of living in America to dissolve the Mexican cultural baggage. Some of them get impatient and try to overcome their feelings of inferiority by being pushy and aggressive, and these are the ones likely to develop a racial grievance. In any case, Mexicans have a hard time dealing with strangers unless they grasp that there's something in it for them.

    I have not noticed my fellow Whites directing hatred at Chinese in any systematic fashion, except in certain limited cases. If you find this to be a recurring experience, please allow me to make some suggestions. The most important thing is not to be demanding or impolite. For some reason, Whites find uppity Asians to be very irritating. This is especially true in money matters. Do not be a skinflint; do not haggle over minor details; America isn't a Hong Kong fish market. Sure, you might end up getting a less than perfect deal, but this is the price you must pay for living in social harmony among us. Also, don't try to find common ground with rednecks, jocks, or working class women, because they won't take you seriously. Cultivate friendships with SWPL professionals instead. They will accept you and will generally give you a fair hearing. You should affect to be slightly poorer than you really are rather than better off; and whatever you do, don't let your teenage children go hot-rodding around in those souped up rice burners. These simple rules should go a long way toward making your American dream a reality.

    You should affect to be slightly poorer than you really are rather than better off; and whatever you do, don’t let your teenage children go hot-rodding around in those souped up rice burners.

    Chinese Kids Driving Supercars: Inside the Secret Southern California Meet-up

    She is also “besties” with Ivanka Trump. How much does she influence Ivanka and Jared, who in turn then influence Donald Trump?:

    But Deng and Ivanka have a long history together. In fact, Deng is reportedly responsible for re-uniting Ivanka and her husband, Jared Kushner, who broke up in 2008 when their religious differences caused them to split. A new New Yorker profile of the couple relays how Deng invited Jared for a weekend on the Murdoch family yacht. “You’re working so hard. Come with Rupert and me on the boat for the weekend,” she said. He showed up without knowing that Deng had also invited Ivanka. Trump later converted to Judaism, and the couple married in 2009.

    http://www.unz.com/jthompson/lifestyle-advice/#comment-1809777

    Deng was plugged right in: she helped Murdoch with the purchase of the Wall Street Journal; she made connections with the highest echelons of the Chinese power pyramid; she restored a vast house in Beijing and revamped an enormous triplex on Fifth Avenue that had previously been owned by Laurance Rockefeller -
a house she later got in the divorce.
    [...]
    One phone call and it’s done. Wendi can open so many doors – especially with the growing importance of Asia.’ She is, he adds, ‘a rainmaker’ – though one mainland Chinese source says ‘it’s not that Wendi’s fallen from grace, but she has lost some respect with the Chinese. She still has a great range of contacts and is obviously very well off, but people gave her more respect when she was married.’ (The same source adds that Deng’s looks are not the sort that Chinese men find particularly attractive.)

    http://www.tatler.com/news/articles/july-2016/the-truth-about-wendi-deng-vladimir-putin

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  21. Karl says:
    @Whiskey
    Yan Shen, if you don't like this country, seriously why not move to China or Japan (well Japan would not let you in). There is also Thailand, Indonesia, Malaysia, and the Philippines, where you would not have to see one White face from one day to the next.

    I suspect you will like White people* a lot less when they simply copy Mexicans, and try to make the United States as unlivable as Mexico, simply to drive the foreigners out and keep up with the highly aggressive Africans and Muslims being imported by the Oligarchs.

    It is pretty clear now that no one in the West will be able to vote their way out of disaster, and the future of the US is basically South Africa, with a hostile non-White majority government and enthusiastic endorsement of most White women. But White men can be very good at fighting particularly in sustained actions that historically broke other peoples: WWI trench warfare, WWII Island campaigns, etc. The fatal flaw of White beta males in individual contests against Warrior types is completely flipped in grinding attrition actions like Okinawa or the Somme.

    Now that I think of it, best for all Asians to simply leave the US for the safety of the Chinese monoculture. Shanghai is much better, I think.

    15 whiskey > Yan Shen, if you don’t like this country, seriously why not move to China or Japan

    But then, how would he get a half-Jew grandchild ? You know, the kind of people who can see what’s NOT there yet…. and invent it. And sell the invention.

    It wasn’t the Chinese half of the zuckermann’s who dreamed up the idea that mad all the money.

    And it CERTAINLY wasn’t her who ruthlessly pushed aside, every living obstacle.

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    • Replies: @Moshe
    I have Whiskey blocked so maybe I missed some crucial detail over the past year but my impression is that he is not actually a Semite. He is certainly autistic and lacking any intuition about how the real world runs so I reckon he likes to IMAGINE that he "one of the boys" among the Jewish autists.

    He claimed, back before we had the blocking option, that he was of German descent. Now I don't doubt that he was referring only to some distant ancestor, but even then, you know what you call someone who descends from 1870 German Jewish immigrants? A goy.

    They have fully intermarried. Two generations ago they went to a reformed temple, now they go to church or the army or whatever their local neighbors do.

    That's my take on the fella who is shocked - SHOCKED - that Obama didn't barricade himself in the White House rather than turn it over to a Republican.
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  22. @Whiskey
    Yan Shen, if you don't like this country, seriously why not move to China or Japan (well Japan would not let you in). There is also Thailand, Indonesia, Malaysia, and the Philippines, where you would not have to see one White face from one day to the next.

    I suspect you will like White people* a lot less when they simply copy Mexicans, and try to make the United States as unlivable as Mexico, simply to drive the foreigners out and keep up with the highly aggressive Africans and Muslims being imported by the Oligarchs.

    It is pretty clear now that no one in the West will be able to vote their way out of disaster, and the future of the US is basically South Africa, with a hostile non-White majority government and enthusiastic endorsement of most White women. But White men can be very good at fighting particularly in sustained actions that historically broke other peoples: WWI trench warfare, WWII Island campaigns, etc. The fatal flaw of White beta males in individual contests against Warrior types is completely flipped in grinding attrition actions like Okinawa or the Somme.

    Now that I think of it, best for all Asians to simply leave the US for the safety of the Chinese monoculture. Shanghai is much better, I think.

    I think you fundamentally misunderstand the point I’m trying to make. I’m actually happy with the United States and with the people here! My only point was that white, black, and Hispanic Americans, as evidenced by their racism towards East Asians, don’t really reciprocate the same kind of decency that East Asian Americans exhibit towards their fellow countrymen.

    East Asians in this country by and large skew towards STEM and eschew the sort of identity politics and other kinds of nonsense that seem to be par for the course for black, Hispanic, and white Americans. They strive not to antagonize and instead aim to direct focus towards the good and useful things in life. I mean uh, we all remember the Asian guy in the library right? Hey, hey, hey, hey. This is library. At least when those awful Chinese take over this poor country, your children will get the privilege of being able to study in nice and quiet libraries, instead of having to listen to idiot leftists spouting the usual postmodern nonsense.

    To me that incident summed up everything wrong with non-East Asian America. Indeed, Tiger Mother wrote her book motivated by the recognition of the increasing schism between Confucian and non-Confucian ethos in modern day American society.

    Now, to get back to my main point, Asian bashing in this country has a rich history, going back to at least World War 2. It’s one of the few things that unites both liberal and conservative whites. No need to suggest that left wing hatred of Trump somehow managed to corrupt even saintly progressives into being anti-Chinese. For at least the past 70 years, white liberals have been some of the biggest anti-East Asian racists in the world! As I’ve stated, this is a part of a general trend whereby it’s basically considered acceptable to denigrate and dehumanize East Asians in this country in a way that we wouldn’t countenance any other ethnic group. Yeah sure, white progressives always seem to have it in for those racist white conservatives, some will counter-argue, but at least the supposed racists are still fundamentally considered to be human and in theory capable of being redeemed from sin. As John Dower pointed out in his book War Without Mercy, in America, “all that was lacking in the perception of the Japanese enemy was a human like oneself”.

    So where do we go from here, when one group of Americans clearly exhibits a greater sense of decency towards their fellow countrymen than do the others? That’s the fundamental question that I pose. How can a multi-ethnic society survive when its fractured by hatred?

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    • Replies: @peterike

    My only point was that white, black, and Hispanic Americans, as evidenced by their racism towards East Asians, don’t really reciprocate the same kind of decency that East Asian Americans exhibit towards their fellow countrymen.

     

    Lolz!!! Yeah, let's just forget about the human smuggling, sex trafficking, massive tax avoidance schemes, labor abuse, massive welfare and Social Security grifting, and test cheating, among other things. Pretty decent bunch, I'd say.
    , @Autochthon

    As John Dower pointed out in his book War Without Mercy, [sic] in America, “all that was lacking in the perception of the Japanese enemy was a human like oneself”. [sic]
     
    Not a single thing was lacking in our perception of the Japanese enemy; we perceived them with glacial clarity (I don't know who John Dower is and I do not care; I have it first hand from my father, who fought them). They were ruthless, traitorous, despicable, murderous, raping bastards, and we dealt with them accordingly.

    Do not conflate the current whimsy of Hayao Miyazaki with the past realities of Pearl Harbor, the Bataan Death March, and the Rape of Nanking. The well-mannered, deferential, and mostly passive Japanese of 2017 are largely creatures of the Americans of 1945.
    , @FKA Max
    What about this guy?

    "Sanctuary For ALL?" Tucker Debates Immigration With May Day Advocate

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F8NkkYgpnYg

    Published on May 1, 2017

    5-1-17: Tucker Carlson interviews Steven Choi, Executive Director of the New York Immigration Coalition, about immigration policy.


    And these guys? (See linked comment for videos)

    Riots in Paris after police shoot Chinese man dead

    Protests hit the streets of Paris following police shooting of Chinese man

    France: Police killing exposes anguish of Chinese community

     

    - http://www.unz.com/isteve/whatever-happened-to-frances-famed-liberte/#comment-1819420

    This is the most interesting part, and could explain why Asians (and Jews in the past) get much more upset and “pro-testy” than Caucasians when they are being discriminated against by “holistic admission” policies of elite universities:
    Now, studies have triggered aggression in MAOA-3R men with much more immediate experimental adversities in the form of game unfairness.
    [...]
    Monoamine oxidase A gene (MAOA) predicts behavioral aggression following provocation McDermott (2008) http://www.pnas.org/content/106/7/2118.full.pdf
     
    - http://www.unz.com/isteve/reforming-stuyvesant-hs-admissions-should-blacks-whites-team-up-against-asian-grinds/#comment-1819101


    The rest of the Ivy League tends to follow a similar pattern, with the overall Jewish ratio being 381 percent, the Asian figure at 62 percent, and the ratio for non-Jewish whites a low 35 percent, all relative to their number of high-ability college-age students.
    [...]
    A good student might even be more than a bit of a follower, a conformist, standing ready to give satisfaction to the powers that be so that one can proceed to the next good school, taking another step up the ladder of meritocracy.
    [...]
    Buying influence…

    Largest Donors to Harvard No Longer Chinese



    http://www.asianphilanthropyforum.org/donor-harvard-chinese/

    American-Buddhist billionaires, who are most likely ethnically Jewish, are selling out to the Chinese [...]
    [ Like the president, a rising number of international billionaires have begun to worry that backing the Dalai Lama could pose a risk to their personal wealth by potentially limiting access to lucrative markets in China. ] - http://www.unz.com/freed/iq-a-skeptics-view/#comment-1731013
     
    - http://www.unz.com/forum/white-students-unfair-advantage-in-admissions/#comment-1748458

    Jews and the Chinese seem to be equally ambitious and competitive, some might even call it cunning. Interestingly, the two groups/races seem to have comparable IQs and seem to be carrying the low-activity 3-repeat MAOA allele at very similar rates
    [...]
    Chua further claims that “Chinese Americans are three generations behind the Jews” as both Jewish Americans and Chinese Americans share lots of similar behaviors
     
    - http://www.unz.com/forum/white-students-unfair-advantage-in-admissions/#comment-1754583

    I think you are being overly pessimistic and paranoid here:

    Personality traits and low-active diplotype on polymorphic loci Val158Met COMT, –uVNTR MAOA in men

    This investigation has been carried out with financial support from Russian Science Foundation (project No. 16-18-10222)

    The increase in mean values on the pessimism and paranoia scales (MMPI) might be the evidence of intense anxiety characteristic of this male group and reflect their inclination to depressive and paranoid reactions, hostility and sticking to the negative emotions. The peculiar personality traits of the people with low-active varieties of the genes under study listed above might have destructive influence and contribute to social maladjustment. Judging by the result we get, such people approve of expressing aggression and violence in the society, they are highly inclined to committing illegal actions and try to solve their problems by withdrawal from reality with the help of chemical agents or other, non-chemical addictive behaviors.
     
    - http://programme.exordo.com/bga17/delegates/presentation/99/
    , @yaqub the mad scientist
    “all that was lacking in the perception of the _______ enemy was a human like oneself”.

    Let's play fill in the blank.

    Let's play fill in the blank.

    Let's play fill in the blank.

    My old farmer neighbor who survived the latter would like to play.

    , @Hidden Cat
    hmm in the wake of the Steinle killing in San Francisco, the Chinese Law Caucus, emboldened in recent years as our truly lousy, sell-out mayor, Ed Lee, rose from those ranks, was happy to join iwth the pro-illegal immigrant groups. Joined iwth anyone in fact. Along with other groups.

    Not a pretty sight, at all. The rhetoric got quite ugly. Those in the forefront came within whiskers of stating out loud that they did not care as a white woman had died. WHY they sided a 5 time illegal entrant with a long string of convictions, 15 years incarcerated and then a man who stole a gun (a detail they dislike to disclose but it has squeaked out) and shot a young women. White, citizen, tax payer, California native.

    Took a while for it to come out but the reason the media low balls the railroad track suicides down the Peninsula is the high proportion of Chinese HS students, particularly from Gunn School engaging in and successfully committing suicide.

    I gather the above is not happening in some hot house vacuum here in San Francisco, Northern Cal, the Peninsula....

    Again, not a pretty picture, but a protected picture, that's for sure.
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  23. @Lot
    Harrowing? Really? And yet Asians by the hundreds of millions would love to move here. The people who really "disdain and hate" Asians are other Asians. Mao's famines and Pol Pot's massacres are not something you much have to worry about from Americans. The Chinese in Burma and Indonesia however keep their bug out bags close.

    You often hear people on this blog complain about the “hordes” of Asians in this country. Let me just use the terms Chinese and Asian synonymously here to make things a little simpler. I’ve stated before that such complaints lack a fundamental sense of numeracy.

    There are something like 5 million Chinese who live in the United States versus 1.38 billion Chinese in mainland China. So the ratio of US to mainland Chinese is somewhere around 0.36%. It only feels like there are “hordes” of Asians in this country because of the disproportionate impact that East Asian Americans have in the US.

    If you look at the actual numbers, given that there are something like 1.6 billion or so people in East Asia, there aren’t really all that many East Asians living in the West. The few that are are basically concentrated in a handful of Anglosphere countries. Probably the biggest draw for Chinese to come to the US these days is for higher education, but as I’ve noted in other threads, the numbers are declining and an increasing percentage of people who do come over are returning home for reasons of both cultural affinity and job opportunity.

    I’ve argued that as China further develops, it’ll probably follow the same immigration pattern as Japan, with the noted caveat that Japanese do tend to be somewhat more insular. I could be wrong, but to me Chinese studying in the United States doesn’t seem all that different from say 100-150 years ago, when Americans would study overseas in Europe in non-trivial numbers.

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    • Replies: @Lot
    I don't think it is likely in the next 50 years that China will archive the political stability or standard of living Japan does right now. China is more likely to get old before it gets rich, and will have the extreme environmental problems present now get worse each year. It is just too large to be properly governed.
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  24. @Whiskey
    Yan Shen, if you don't like this country, seriously why not move to China or Japan (well Japan would not let you in). There is also Thailand, Indonesia, Malaysia, and the Philippines, where you would not have to see one White face from one day to the next.

    I suspect you will like White people* a lot less when they simply copy Mexicans, and try to make the United States as unlivable as Mexico, simply to drive the foreigners out and keep up with the highly aggressive Africans and Muslims being imported by the Oligarchs.

    It is pretty clear now that no one in the West will be able to vote their way out of disaster, and the future of the US is basically South Africa, with a hostile non-White majority government and enthusiastic endorsement of most White women. But White men can be very good at fighting particularly in sustained actions that historically broke other peoples: WWI trench warfare, WWII Island campaigns, etc. The fatal flaw of White beta males in individual contests against Warrior types is completely flipped in grinding attrition actions like Okinawa or the Somme.

    Now that I think of it, best for all Asians to simply leave the US for the safety of the Chinese monoculture. Shanghai is much better, I think.

    Sorry, forgot to mention one final thing. Recommending that someone of Chinese ancestry immigrate to Southeast Asia in some respects shows a laughable sense of history and a lack of understanding of HBD. I mean uh a cursory reading of World on Fire by Amy Chua more or less tells you all you need to know about how great things have been historically for the Chinese in places like Thailand and the Philippines as far as race relations go…

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    • Replies: @Nico

    Recommending that someone of Chinese ancestry immigrate to Southeast Asia in some respects shows a laughable sense of history and a lack of understanding of HBD. I mean uh a cursory reading of World on Fire by Amy Chua more or less tells you all you need to know about how great things have been historically for the Chinese in places like Thailand and the Philippines as far as race relations go…
     
    Two points:

    1. I have no interest in anything the Tiger Mother has to say but the above construction does appear to suggest that any racism you have encountered in the United States is on a far more benign level than what you would get elsewhere.
    2. I have nothing personally against the Chinese but if I'm reading the above construction correctly, juxtaposed with your exasperation at the "racism" of non-Oriental Americans, it does seem to suggest that your people elicit especially high levels of enduring mistrust and suspicion in a wide variety of diaspora settings.

    If these suggestions reflect reality then I would be inclined to say you ought to be grateful things are as good as they are for you and stop whining.

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  25. @Wilkey
    By the way, I’m not wholly against the EB-5 investment visa program on principle, but I think $500,000 is about two orders of magnitude too cheap. I think $500k would be too little even if it were paid directly to the U.S. Treasury.

    Maybe, but I'm not thrilled about the importation of billionaire Russian oligarchs, either. They bring massive amounts of money and an ethical approach that makes Bill Clinton and Harry Reid look like saints.

    In general I'd rather have talented foreigners of merely above average wealth than some of the crooks who end up coming here under a program like EB-5.

    I believe Russian oligarchs are camped out in the UK because their ill-gotten gains are exempt from taxation. The US tax law considers itself entitled to money “earned” anywhere in the world.

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  26. @JohnnyWalker123
    I'd establish an entrepreneur visa for investing $5 million. I'd limit it to the manufacturing, software, engineering, R&D, and healthcare sectors. We need to make sure the businesses are legitimate and significantly beneficial (not Chinese restaurants or real estate scams). There'd also be requirements to pay decent wages (no sweatshop labor) and employ American-born citizens (not co-ethnic foreigners or family members).

    This seems to be something Anglosphere economists fail to understand. Selling real estate to foreigners is not creating wealth, it’s just selling off assets. And Asian restaurants just redistribute wealth from natives to immigrants. Foreigners only create wealth if they actually built, or at least invest in, wealth creating industries.

    From a western perspective, the idea that all economic activity is beneficial economic activity is one of the most destructive ideas of the modern era.

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  27. @Yan Shen
    Well I haven't looked at or thought through any of the economics. I want to say maybe $500,000 is one order of magnitude too cheap, as opposed to two? As the article points out, at most 10,000 of these are granted each year, and I believe roughly 80% or so of the EB-5 visas are handed out to mainland Chinese. Are there numbers for what people actually end up investing? I'm sure some invest more than the minimum required?

    By the way, one hardly needs to credit Trump for getting the liberal establishment to bash Asians. As I've long been saying, Asian bashing in this country is as American as baseball or apple pie. It's one of the few things that unites both white liberals and white conservatives, as well as the black and Hispanic American populations. It used to be most virulently directed towards the Japanese, but these days is increasingly directed towards the Chinese and maybe to a lesser extent the Koreans.

    As a Chinese American, one of the most harrowing things about living in this country is the shocking disdain, oftentimes bordering on hatred, that white, black, and Hispanic Americans harbor towards people of East Asian descent.

    I know. You would rather be breathing in the freedom and clean air of Beijing instead.

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  28. @Yan Shen
    Well I haven't looked at or thought through any of the economics. I want to say maybe $500,000 is one order of magnitude too cheap, as opposed to two? As the article points out, at most 10,000 of these are granted each year, and I believe roughly 80% or so of the EB-5 visas are handed out to mainland Chinese. Are there numbers for what people actually end up investing? I'm sure some invest more than the minimum required?

    By the way, one hardly needs to credit Trump for getting the liberal establishment to bash Asians. As I've long been saying, Asian bashing in this country is as American as baseball or apple pie. It's one of the few things that unites both white liberals and white conservatives, as well as the black and Hispanic American populations. It used to be most virulently directed towards the Japanese, but these days is increasingly directed towards the Chinese and maybe to a lesser extent the Koreans.

    As a Chinese American, one of the most harrowing things about living in this country is the shocking disdain, oftentimes bordering on hatred, that white, black, and Hispanic Americans harbor towards people of East Asian descent.

    Exactly. White supremacy is diverse in its hatred

    Read More
    • Replies: @Buck Turgidson
    Chinese supremacy is diverse in its hatred.
    Black supremacy is diverse in its hatred.
    Asian supremacy is diverse in its hatred.
    Hispanic supremacy is diverse in its hatred.
    Islam is diverse in its hatred.

    Profound, I know.....
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  29. An examination of about a dozen data points lead me to believe real estate investment is a secondary sexual characteristic of Asians, particularly females. At a nearby public library I see English ignorant Vietnamese women spend hours on the computer scrolling through MLS listings. Casual conversations with Chinese, Vietnamese, Filipino or Malaysian immigrants soon turn to real estate – always.

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  30. @Yan Shen
    Well I haven't looked at or thought through any of the economics. I want to say maybe $500,000 is one order of magnitude too cheap, as opposed to two? As the article points out, at most 10,000 of these are granted each year, and I believe roughly 80% or so of the EB-5 visas are handed out to mainland Chinese. Are there numbers for what people actually end up investing? I'm sure some invest more than the minimum required?

    By the way, one hardly needs to credit Trump for getting the liberal establishment to bash Asians. As I've long been saying, Asian bashing in this country is as American as baseball or apple pie. It's one of the few things that unites both white liberals and white conservatives, as well as the black and Hispanic American populations. It used to be most virulently directed towards the Japanese, but these days is increasingly directed towards the Chinese and maybe to a lesser extent the Koreans.

    As a Chinese American, one of the most harrowing things about living in this country is the shocking disdain, oftentimes bordering on hatred, that white, black, and Hispanic Americans harbor towards people of East Asian descent.

    “As a Chinese American, one of the most harrowing things about living in this country is the shocking disdain, oftentimes bordering on hatred, that white, black, and Hispanic Americans harbor towards people of East Asian descent.”

    Well ok.

    Tell you what, explain to me how I, a non-Chinese, benefits from Chinese immigration to this country.

    Then explain to me, hypothetically that is, what negative aspects would there be to all Chinese in America suddenly deciding to pack up and go home?

    Actually I’d like you to detail why an America free of Chinese wouldn’t be a better place for me to live?

    I really don’t think your impression of hatred towards Chinese people exists in this country. But maybe it should.

    Comment on the pattern of overseas Chinese becoming very unpopular in any of the countries they settled in over the years. Do you think there is any reason why this became a pattern?

    And why should the US become another country that repeats the same process?

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  31. Mao’s famines and Pol Pot’s massacres are not something you much have to worry about from Americans.

    Lest you forget, we’re hardly daisies ourselves. Nuking Japan, the Korean War (we dropped more tonnage than during all of WW2) and the Vietnam War ought to give Asians plenty to worry about over there. Coming to a War Theater near YOU, Korean War II. For them to come here? No. Why should we steal THEIR talent when we should be growing it here? Let them sit home and make their OWN countries better. Especially India. India educates their children here and then the children stay, all while India is falling apart. We steal their doctors, their engineers, the whole spread.

    Once their here, the disdain lately from the whole Asian community is hilarious. The balls. The Asian men get pissed and complain about the Yellow Fever of White guys that date Asian chicks. On the other hand, Chinese, Japs and Korean women educated here happily and willfully take up the mantle of Feminism-As-War-Tactic against White men. And those women are BIG on bashing Yellow Fever.

    So when you net all this out, I’d rather raise and educate and hire our own kids to the tasks Yellow folks provide. Over the lifetime of the American worker in tech you’d get back any immigration tax to gained hiring Yellow and Sepia-hued folk from India.

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  32. MW says:
    @Yan Shen
    Well I haven't looked at or thought through any of the economics. I want to say maybe $500,000 is one order of magnitude too cheap, as opposed to two? As the article points out, at most 10,000 of these are granted each year, and I believe roughly 80% or so of the EB-5 visas are handed out to mainland Chinese. Are there numbers for what people actually end up investing? I'm sure some invest more than the minimum required?

    By the way, one hardly needs to credit Trump for getting the liberal establishment to bash Asians. As I've long been saying, Asian bashing in this country is as American as baseball or apple pie. It's one of the few things that unites both white liberals and white conservatives, as well as the black and Hispanic American populations. It used to be most virulently directed towards the Japanese, but these days is increasingly directed towards the Chinese and maybe to a lesser extent the Koreans.

    As a Chinese American, one of the most harrowing things about living in this country is the shocking disdain, oftentimes bordering on hatred, that white, black, and Hispanic Americans harbor towards people of East Asian descent.

    “Shocking” implies that you expected otherwise. And that’s fair – we say loudly that we don’t discriminate, and that if you work hard and play by the rules and treat others well, you will be rewarded. Which is true up to a point – living decently still gets you a comfortable material life in the USA, regardless of your ethnicity.

    But if you are interested in that other great class of scarce goods which society metes out – attention, respect, adulation, prestige, etc – well, American society isn’t too self-aware about just what it values. So you’ll have to figure that one out for yourself.

    I’d prefer the Chinese approach – we should treat foreigners well, but let’s be very clear upfront that foreigners are foreigners and they shouldn’t expect to be treated as equals. Instead, we pretend to be above such petty tribalism – which ostensibly is kindness to people such as yourself, but clearly in practice it is no such thing.

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  33. Anon • Disclaimer says:
    @Whiskey
    Yan Shen, if you don't like this country, seriously why not move to China or Japan (well Japan would not let you in). There is also Thailand, Indonesia, Malaysia, and the Philippines, where you would not have to see one White face from one day to the next.

    I suspect you will like White people* a lot less when they simply copy Mexicans, and try to make the United States as unlivable as Mexico, simply to drive the foreigners out and keep up with the highly aggressive Africans and Muslims being imported by the Oligarchs.

    It is pretty clear now that no one in the West will be able to vote their way out of disaster, and the future of the US is basically South Africa, with a hostile non-White majority government and enthusiastic endorsement of most White women. But White men can be very good at fighting particularly in sustained actions that historically broke other peoples: WWI trench warfare, WWII Island campaigns, etc. The fatal flaw of White beta males in individual contests against Warrior types is completely flipped in grinding attrition actions like Okinawa or the Somme.

    Now that I think of it, best for all Asians to simply leave the US for the safety of the Chinese monoculture. Shanghai is much better, I think.

    Is the inference here that whites are better at attritional warfare than chinese? Get a calculator and do some dividing to get the required casualty exchanges to make that work.

    Or pick up a history book about the Korean War. My grandfather was a naval aviator with pretty chilling stories about covering the Marine Corps retreat from Chosin. The impression I gathered from them was that the Chinese weren’t overly attached to their lives.

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  34. I asked somebody who helped write the last two immigration bills what was wrong with the investor visa. He said that the money is simply recycled – the investor gives money to his brother in law to buy a business or a building, and the brother in law just gives the money back to the “investor.” There is no actual investing going on, it’s just an excuse for simple fraud.

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  35. OT: AEI has an article that attempts to figure out why white male labor participation rate is down so much.

    http://www.aei.org/publication/where-did-all-the-men-go/

    The article actually does contain the search pattern “immi” — three times — but only to, effectively, dismiss it as part of the problem. Nothing to see here. Move along.

    It whistles by the graveyard to a ridiculous extent. The article misleadingly mixes race data when discussing incarceration and “institutional barriers,” and avoids graphing white male employment trends against immigration trends (that would be bad optics).

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    • Replies: @anonn
    So many words spent avoiding the real causes or any real solution to the problem. The author concludes, as a way of discussing what to do:

    Without precluding other approaches, I would propose that attention be focused on three broad general objectives:

    Revitalizing American business’ job-generating capacities.
    Reducing the disincentives to work in existing government-disability programs.
    Facing up to the enormous task of bringing released convicts back into the economy.
     
    In other words, cut taxes for billionaires, starve the poor to death, and start another meaningless discussion about over-incarceration.

    We used to be able to do something about mass unemployment. It was called the New Deal, and it ended the Great Depression (along with the war). If this author was serious the very first thing he should do is consider what we did to address this problem last time we had it.

    Hopefully the next Dem Presidential nominee will give us a federal jobs guarantee, along with national health care and free college, and own the country for the next generation or two.
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  36. @Yan Shen
    Well I haven't looked at or thought through any of the economics. I want to say maybe $500,000 is one order of magnitude too cheap, as opposed to two? As the article points out, at most 10,000 of these are granted each year, and I believe roughly 80% or so of the EB-5 visas are handed out to mainland Chinese. Are there numbers for what people actually end up investing? I'm sure some invest more than the minimum required?

    By the way, one hardly needs to credit Trump for getting the liberal establishment to bash Asians. As I've long been saying, Asian bashing in this country is as American as baseball or apple pie. It's one of the few things that unites both white liberals and white conservatives, as well as the black and Hispanic American populations. It used to be most virulently directed towards the Japanese, but these days is increasingly directed towards the Chinese and maybe to a lesser extent the Koreans.

    As a Chinese American, one of the most harrowing things about living in this country is the shocking disdain, oftentimes bordering on hatred, that white, black, and Hispanic Americans harbor towards people of East Asian descent.

    If it’s so harrowing living here, please, go back to China, for your own safety.

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  37. @George Weinbaum
    We should auction permanent resident visas. Say 325,000 per year, or .001 of the current US population. How much might they bring? Say $300,000 each. That's for each person. A family of five pays $1,500,000. That's $97.5 billion a year. Look at the benefits: no more immigration lawyers, no more immigration judges. No more H-1B visas.
    Would these immigrants be well behaved? Should any be convicted of a felony, he loses his visa, his $300,000 and gets deported after serving his sentence.
    We can only wish.
    I oppose the current EB-5 program. As currently run it is a scam.

    Auction means auction. $300K is the opening bid.

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  38. Altai says:

    The price should be that and they become double agents and actively undermine the economy they came from to the benefit of their new host.

    Otherwise as others have noted above, you’re just enticing a rootless, utterly corrupt elite to augment the one that’s already there. And no doubt they’ll always find an ‘investment’ that games the system in a way that produces no or not a profitable amount of desirable results.

    Citizenship shouldn’t be for sale anywhere. Frankly there should be psychology exams like with police.

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  39. @Intelligent Dasein

    As a Chinese American, one of the most harrowing things about living in this country is the shocking disdain, oftentimes bordering on hatred, that white, black, and Hispanic Americans harbor towards people of East Asian descent.
     
    Blacks are stupid and tribal and most of them are completely uncivilizable, so it's hopeless to expect them to behave decently toward you. They act that way with everyone, including other blacks.

    Hispanics largely form an underclass with its own culture and rules. They're not nearly as recalcitrant as blacks are, but they're suspicious of outsiders and fairly cagey. They are actually envious of White culture and would gladly pass for White if they could, but it takes several generations of living in America to dissolve the Mexican cultural baggage. Some of them get impatient and try to overcome their feelings of inferiority by being pushy and aggressive, and these are the ones likely to develop a racial grievance. In any case, Mexicans have a hard time dealing with strangers unless they grasp that there's something in it for them.

    I have not noticed my fellow Whites directing hatred at Chinese in any systematic fashion, except in certain limited cases. If you find this to be a recurring experience, please allow me to make some suggestions. The most important thing is not to be demanding or impolite. For some reason, Whites find uppity Asians to be very irritating. This is especially true in money matters. Do not be a skinflint; do not haggle over minor details; America isn't a Hong Kong fish market. Sure, you might end up getting a less than perfect deal, but this is the price you must pay for living in social harmony among us. Also, don't try to find common ground with rednecks, jocks, or working class women, because they won't take you seriously. Cultivate friendships with SWPL professionals instead. They will accept you and will generally give you a fair hearing. You should affect to be slightly poorer than you really are rather than better off; and whatever you do, don't let your teenage children go hot-rodding around in those souped up rice burners. These simple rules should go a long way toward making your American dream a reality.

    “Blacks are stupid and tribal and most of them are completely uncivilizable.”

    Praytell, how would you define “civilized”? What metrics are involved here?

    “so it’s hopeless to expect them to behave decently toward you. They act that way with everyone, including other blacks.”

    Quite the contrary, those darkies in my neighborhood and whom I interact with on a daily basis are honest and decent.

    “They are actually envious of White culture and would gladly pass for White if they could, but it takes several generations of living in America to dissolve the Mexican cultural baggage.”

    That would be projection on your part.

    “Some of them get impatient and try to overcome their feelings of inferiority by being pushy and aggressive, and these are the ones likely to develop a racial grievance. In any case, Mexicans have a hard time dealing with strangers unless they grasp that there’s something in it for them.”

    Actually, you are describing people in general, which could include Mexicans.

    “I have not noticed my fellow Whites directing hatred at Chinese in any systematic fashion, except in certain limited cases.”

    I have also noticed my fellow whites not directing hatred at blacks or Hispanics in any systematic fashion, either.

    “If you find this to be a recurring experience, please allow me to make some suggestions.”

    Thanks, but no thanks.

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  40. Mike1 says:

    White Americans could try getting off their butt and trying to win. The incessant whining and self proclaimed victimization is getting old.

    I think the factories getting offshored and the endless H1B procession are bad things but come on. This “I was born here I should win for that reason” attitude is just sad.

    Winners win. Losers invent reasons why they should be on top.

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    • Replies: @MW
    I think dismissing any grievance as "whining" is getting old. Expecting to be on top in your own country really isn't too much to ask. We should be looking out for the bottom half of our own people, not importing better people and saying screw our own people if they can't cut it.

    The other unfortunate reality is that whining is a huge part of how you play the game in USA 2017. It's a grievance culture, and it works, so you kind of have to whine yourself just to keep up with the Joneses. Ugly but true.
    , @Bill Jones
    You have a deeply F*cked up concept of peoples, countries governments and nations.

    It is the people who are sovereign, not the parasitic filth in government who are bribed to destroy them.

    Countries lose legitimacy at the point where they are no longer controlled by, and catering to the needs of the people.

    This happened in the US in 1861.
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  41. MW says:
    @Wilkey
    By the way, I’m not wholly against the EB-5 investment visa program on principle, but I think $500,000 is about two orders of magnitude too cheap. I think $500k would be too little even if it were paid directly to the U.S. Treasury.

    Maybe, but I'm not thrilled about the importation of billionaire Russian oligarchs, either. They bring massive amounts of money and an ethical approach that makes Bill Clinton and Harry Reid look like saints.

    In general I'd rather have talented foreigners of merely above average wealth than some of the crooks who end up coming here under a program like EB-5.

    Are talented foreigners any better than below-average foreigners? We seem to be at a point where good jobs do not scale with population size, so inviting people who will out-compete the native-born is problematic. I see plenty of wasted native talent, much of it actively poisoning themselves, and I suspect these trends are not unrelated. People frequently rise to meet new responsibilities.

    Read More
    • Agree: Autochthon, Opinionator
    • Replies: @JohnnyGeo

    Are talented foreigners any better than below-average foreigners?
     
    At least there's fewer of them
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  42. Nice racial virtue-signaling, Corvinus, we get it, you are the GoodWhite no Black could ever hate, rob, rape or burgle.Yeah, yeah, vibrant diversity is only other people’s problem, never yours and never because of Blacks. You’re swell!

    Read More
    • Replies: @Autochthon
    Hmm. I always reckoned Corvinus was a Negro; what with the name; his reprehensible mastery of grammar, history, and logic; and his endless flag-waving for them. I think he has mentioned he lives in Mississippi as well, so the statistics support my theory.
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  43. @Yan Shen
    Well I haven't looked at or thought through any of the economics. I want to say maybe $500,000 is one order of magnitude too cheap, as opposed to two? As the article points out, at most 10,000 of these are granted each year, and I believe roughly 80% or so of the EB-5 visas are handed out to mainland Chinese. Are there numbers for what people actually end up investing? I'm sure some invest more than the minimum required?

    By the way, one hardly needs to credit Trump for getting the liberal establishment to bash Asians. As I've long been saying, Asian bashing in this country is as American as baseball or apple pie. It's one of the few things that unites both white liberals and white conservatives, as well as the black and Hispanic American populations. It used to be most virulently directed towards the Japanese, but these days is increasingly directed towards the Chinese and maybe to a lesser extent the Koreans.

    As a Chinese American, one of the most harrowing things about living in this country is the shocking disdain, oftentimes bordering on hatred, that white, black, and Hispanic Americans harbor towards people of East Asian descent.

    You know what Friedrich Nietzsche said about anti-Semitism being the ideology of those who feel cheated? I occasionally wonder if anti-Asian sentiment is something similar.

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  44. MW says:
    @Mike1
    White Americans could try getting off their butt and trying to win. The incessant whining and self proclaimed victimization is getting old.

    I think the factories getting offshored and the endless H1B procession are bad things but come on. This "I was born here I should win for that reason" attitude is just sad.

    Winners win. Losers invent reasons why they should be on top.

    I think dismissing any grievance as “whining” is getting old. Expecting to be on top in your own country really isn’t too much to ask. We should be looking out for the bottom half of our own people, not importing better people and saying screw our own people if they can’t cut it.

    The other unfortunate reality is that whining is a huge part of how you play the game in USA 2017. It’s a grievance culture, and it works, so you kind of have to whine yourself just to keep up with the Joneses. Ugly but true.

    Read More
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  45. @Intelligent Dasein

    As a Chinese American, one of the most harrowing things about living in this country is the shocking disdain, oftentimes bordering on hatred, that white, black, and Hispanic Americans harbor towards people of East Asian descent.
     
    Blacks are stupid and tribal and most of them are completely uncivilizable, so it's hopeless to expect them to behave decently toward you. They act that way with everyone, including other blacks.

    Hispanics largely form an underclass with its own culture and rules. They're not nearly as recalcitrant as blacks are, but they're suspicious of outsiders and fairly cagey. They are actually envious of White culture and would gladly pass for White if they could, but it takes several generations of living in America to dissolve the Mexican cultural baggage. Some of them get impatient and try to overcome their feelings of inferiority by being pushy and aggressive, and these are the ones likely to develop a racial grievance. In any case, Mexicans have a hard time dealing with strangers unless they grasp that there's something in it for them.

    I have not noticed my fellow Whites directing hatred at Chinese in any systematic fashion, except in certain limited cases. If you find this to be a recurring experience, please allow me to make some suggestions. The most important thing is not to be demanding or impolite. For some reason, Whites find uppity Asians to be very irritating. This is especially true in money matters. Do not be a skinflint; do not haggle over minor details; America isn't a Hong Kong fish market. Sure, you might end up getting a less than perfect deal, but this is the price you must pay for living in social harmony among us. Also, don't try to find common ground with rednecks, jocks, or working class women, because they won't take you seriously. Cultivate friendships with SWPL professionals instead. They will accept you and will generally give you a fair hearing. You should affect to be slightly poorer than you really are rather than better off; and whatever you do, don't let your teenage children go hot-rodding around in those souped up rice burners. These simple rules should go a long way toward making your American dream a reality.

    Why not just suggest to Chinese complaining about American society that they can always move to another country and try their luck there?

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  46. @Yan Shen
    I think you fundamentally misunderstand the point I'm trying to make. I'm actually happy with the United States and with the people here! My only point was that white, black, and Hispanic Americans, as evidenced by their racism towards East Asians, don't really reciprocate the same kind of decency that East Asian Americans exhibit towards their fellow countrymen.

    East Asians in this country by and large skew towards STEM and eschew the sort of identity politics and other kinds of nonsense that seem to be par for the course for black, Hispanic, and white Americans. They strive not to antagonize and instead aim to direct focus towards the good and useful things in life. I mean uh, we all remember the Asian guy in the library right? Hey, hey, hey, hey. This is library. At least when those awful Chinese take over this poor country, your children will get the privilege of being able to study in nice and quiet libraries, instead of having to listen to idiot leftists spouting the usual postmodern nonsense.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DHhy2Gk_xik

    To me that incident summed up everything wrong with non-East Asian America. Indeed, Tiger Mother wrote her book motivated by the recognition of the increasing schism between Confucian and non-Confucian ethos in modern day American society.

    Now, to get back to my main point, Asian bashing in this country has a rich history, going back to at least World War 2. It's one of the few things that unites both liberal and conservative whites. No need to suggest that left wing hatred of Trump somehow managed to corrupt even saintly progressives into being anti-Chinese. For at least the past 70 years, white liberals have been some of the biggest anti-East Asian racists in the world! As I've stated, this is a part of a general trend whereby it's basically considered acceptable to denigrate and dehumanize East Asians in this country in a way that we wouldn't countenance any other ethnic group. Yeah sure, white progressives always seem to have it in for those racist white conservatives, some will counter-argue, but at least the supposed racists are still fundamentally considered to be human and in theory capable of being redeemed from sin. As John Dower pointed out in his book War Without Mercy, in America, "all that was lacking in the perception of the Japanese enemy was a human like oneself".

    So where do we go from here, when one group of Americans clearly exhibits a greater sense of decency towards their fellow countrymen than do the others? That's the fundamental question that I pose. How can a multi-ethnic society survive when its fractured by hatred?

    My only point was that white, black, and Hispanic Americans, as evidenced by their racism towards East Asians, don’t really reciprocate the same kind of decency that East Asian Americans exhibit towards their fellow countrymen.

    Lolz!!! Yeah, let’s just forget about the human smuggling, sex trafficking, massive tax avoidance schemes, labor abuse, massive welfare and Social Security grifting, and test cheating, among other things. Pretty decent bunch, I’d say.

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    • Replies: @Bill Jones
    "let’s just forget about the human smuggling, sex trafficking, massive tax avoidance schemes, labor abuse, massive welfare and Social Security grifting, and test cheating, among other things."

    What do you have against the Democratic Party?
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  47. @MW
    Are talented foreigners any better than below-average foreigners? We seem to be at a point where good jobs do not scale with population size, so inviting people who will out-compete the native-born is problematic. I see plenty of wasted native talent, much of it actively poisoning themselves, and I suspect these trends are not unrelated. People frequently rise to meet new responsibilities.

    Are talented foreigners any better than below-average foreigners?

    At least there’s fewer of them

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  48. @Yan Shen
    Well I haven't looked at or thought through any of the economics. I want to say maybe $500,000 is one order of magnitude too cheap, as opposed to two? As the article points out, at most 10,000 of these are granted each year, and I believe roughly 80% or so of the EB-5 visas are handed out to mainland Chinese. Are there numbers for what people actually end up investing? I'm sure some invest more than the minimum required?

    By the way, one hardly needs to credit Trump for getting the liberal establishment to bash Asians. As I've long been saying, Asian bashing in this country is as American as baseball or apple pie. It's one of the few things that unites both white liberals and white conservatives, as well as the black and Hispanic American populations. It used to be most virulently directed towards the Japanese, but these days is increasingly directed towards the Chinese and maybe to a lesser extent the Koreans.

    As a Chinese American, one of the most harrowing things about living in this country is the shocking disdain, oftentimes bordering on hatred, that white, black, and Hispanic Americans harbor towards people of East Asian descent.

    most antiracist and lefties actually dislike East Asians. They do it for similar reasons for why they dislike Jews: both are just whiter than whites.

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  49. Moshe says:
    @Yan Shen
    Well I haven't looked at or thought through any of the economics. I want to say maybe $500,000 is one order of magnitude too cheap, as opposed to two? As the article points out, at most 10,000 of these are granted each year, and I believe roughly 80% or so of the EB-5 visas are handed out to mainland Chinese. Are there numbers for what people actually end up investing? I'm sure some invest more than the minimum required?

    By the way, one hardly needs to credit Trump for getting the liberal establishment to bash Asians. As I've long been saying, Asian bashing in this country is as American as baseball or apple pie. It's one of the few things that unites both white liberals and white conservatives, as well as the black and Hispanic American populations. It used to be most virulently directed towards the Japanese, but these days is increasingly directed towards the Chinese and maybe to a lesser extent the Koreans.

    As a Chinese American, one of the most harrowing things about living in this country is the shocking disdain, oftentimes bordering on hatred, that white, black, and Hispanic Americans harbor towards people of East Asian descent.

    Sure , but outside of San Francisco aren’t they mainly people that consider the rest of us complete and total aliens?

    There are Chinatowns in every major city, in many of which – INCLUDING NEW YORK!! – the locals not only don’t speak English but are actively OPPOSED to having any sort of interaction with non-Chinese people if it doesn’t make them money.

    Remember that video of a little girl RUN OVER in China and OVER A HUNDRED Chinese passed by before one person cared to call an ambulance?

    In San Francisco I saw a Chinese person go out of his way to give a shit-encrusted hobo a banana. It was at night on a daek street and he certainly didn’t think anyone was watching him.

    It blew my mind.

    I took a picture from a distance and then walked over to him to share how deeply moved I was. And we agreed that this wasn’t a very ordinary thing for a Chinese person to do.

    But he did, and it moved me.

    Then look at the nouveau rich Chinese visitors and pseudo-citizens, many of whom obviously made their money in dirty dirty ways. When they aren’t ignoring Americans they tend to be rude to Americans.

    What percentage of Chinese earnings go to charity of any kind? Even to a charity designed to help bring in more Chinese?

    You know how poor Chinese end up in America? I’ll tell you. I lived in Flushing, NYC and had numerous conversations with Chinese people (all pleasant, when I’m not on the internet I’m actually a pretty loving guy :) ).

    And here’s what I learned about the young girl “masseuses”.

    Some rich Chinaman goes to their godforsaken poor poor village and shows everyone videos of America paved with gold. EASY MONEY EVERYWHERE.

    All it will take is $50,000 to sneak them in, make fake marriages, blah blah blah and pay the guy’s fee.

    The whole town raises the money. She’s a native daughter and she will be taught English, make huge money and be the savior of the village.

    But of course there is the fine print and the no print.

    The no print is that hwr new owner will ensure that she does not go to achool and does not learn English. She must be dependant on him and whomever he sells her to, forever.

    Until 26 or so she will jerk old Chinese men off.

    Then she will breathe toxic vapors in a nail salon for the next few decades.

    The fine print is that there are – of course – hidden costs.

    Which – of course – on a minimum wage salary (plus 20% of tips!) she will never be able to repay.

    Her passport is gone.

    Then there are the Chinese busses to casinos that turn over with regularity and where White people are LITERALLY sent to the back of the bus.

    They aren’t violent. And that is a BIG PLUS.

    But who needa them here? Heck, who needs ANYONE here?

    Those Injuns who worked with the settlers were traitors. And look at the result!

    Thoae who subsequently imported cheap French labor, German labor, Irish labor, Polish labor, Jewish labor, Chinese labor, Hatian labor, Indonesian labor, Mexican labor…

    In every single instance they were traitors to their co-inhabitants.

    We don’t need new people. We never did.

    And we espescially don’t need scary people like the Chinese.

    Except for that fellow in San Francisco and other, similarly moral, people. Not that we need them either but if we’re stupid enough to import anyone I don’t mind those types.

    But good damn luck finding them!

    Read More
    • Replies: @Opinionator
    A great post.
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  50. Moshe says:
    @Karl
    15 whiskey > Yan Shen, if you don’t like this country, seriously why not move to China or Japan

    But then, how would he get a half-Jew grandchild ? You know, the kind of people who can see what's NOT there yet.... and invent it. And sell the invention.


    It wasn't the Chinese half of the zuckermann's who dreamed up the idea that mad all the money.

    And it CERTAINLY wasn't her who ruthlessly pushed aside, every living obstacle.

    I have Whiskey blocked so maybe I missed some crucial detail over the past year but my impression is that he is not actually a Semite. He is certainly autistic and lacking any intuition about how the real world runs so I reckon he likes to IMAGINE that he “one of the boys” among the Jewish autists.

    He claimed, back before we had the blocking option, that he was of German descent. Now I don’t doubt that he was referring only to some distant ancestor, but even then, you know what you call someone who descends from 1870 German Jewish immigrants? A goy.

    They have fully intermarried. Two generations ago they went to a reformed temple, now they go to church or the army or whatever their local neighbors do.

    That’s my take on the fella who is shocked – SHOCKED – that Obama didn’t barricade himself in the White House rather than turn it over to a Republican.

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  51. @Yan Shen
    I think you fundamentally misunderstand the point I'm trying to make. I'm actually happy with the United States and with the people here! My only point was that white, black, and Hispanic Americans, as evidenced by their racism towards East Asians, don't really reciprocate the same kind of decency that East Asian Americans exhibit towards their fellow countrymen.

    East Asians in this country by and large skew towards STEM and eschew the sort of identity politics and other kinds of nonsense that seem to be par for the course for black, Hispanic, and white Americans. They strive not to antagonize and instead aim to direct focus towards the good and useful things in life. I mean uh, we all remember the Asian guy in the library right? Hey, hey, hey, hey. This is library. At least when those awful Chinese take over this poor country, your children will get the privilege of being able to study in nice and quiet libraries, instead of having to listen to idiot leftists spouting the usual postmodern nonsense.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DHhy2Gk_xik

    To me that incident summed up everything wrong with non-East Asian America. Indeed, Tiger Mother wrote her book motivated by the recognition of the increasing schism between Confucian and non-Confucian ethos in modern day American society.

    Now, to get back to my main point, Asian bashing in this country has a rich history, going back to at least World War 2. It's one of the few things that unites both liberal and conservative whites. No need to suggest that left wing hatred of Trump somehow managed to corrupt even saintly progressives into being anti-Chinese. For at least the past 70 years, white liberals have been some of the biggest anti-East Asian racists in the world! As I've stated, this is a part of a general trend whereby it's basically considered acceptable to denigrate and dehumanize East Asians in this country in a way that we wouldn't countenance any other ethnic group. Yeah sure, white progressives always seem to have it in for those racist white conservatives, some will counter-argue, but at least the supposed racists are still fundamentally considered to be human and in theory capable of being redeemed from sin. As John Dower pointed out in his book War Without Mercy, in America, "all that was lacking in the perception of the Japanese enemy was a human like oneself".

    So where do we go from here, when one group of Americans clearly exhibits a greater sense of decency towards their fellow countrymen than do the others? That's the fundamental question that I pose. How can a multi-ethnic society survive when its fractured by hatred?

    As John Dower pointed out in his book War Without Mercy, [sic] in America, “all that was lacking in the perception of the Japanese enemy was a human like oneself”. [sic]

    Not a single thing was lacking in our perception of the Japanese enemy; we perceived them with glacial clarity (I don’t know who John Dower is and I do not care; I have it first hand from my father, who fought them). They were ruthless, traitorous, despicable, murderous, raping bastards, and we dealt with them accordingly.

    Do not conflate the current whimsy of Hayao Miyazaki with the past realities of Pearl Harbor, the Bataan Death March, and the Rape of Nanking. The well-mannered, deferential, and mostly passive Japanese of 2017 are largely creatures of the Americans of 1945.

    Read More
    • Replies: @NOTA
    The Japanese troops in WW2 were brutal and ruthless and raping, but they weren't traitorous--instead, they were often loyal way past the point when it made sense. That's probably a Japanese cultural trait, perhaps even a racial one.

    One of the amazing accomplishments of WW2 is that we seem to have converted the Germans and the Japanese into peace-loving societies. Considering what utterly scary, nasty bastards they were when we were fighting them, that's a pretty good outcome.
    , @Jack D
    Worse than Nazis? It's interesting to contrast our attitudes toward the Japanese and German enemy. Japanese were regarded as subhuman. Japanese Americans were imprisoned - not Germans. German POWs got treated great - they had such a swell time in America that many emigrated after the war. German POWs in the South were treated better than American black troops. German generals like Rommel were considered worthy adversaries. Etc.
    , @Johann Ricke
    The Japanese killed for a fairly traditional reason – to enforce their writ, by cowing any potential opposition, and in numbers that were fairly moderate relative to historical numbers in both absolute and percentage terms. The Nazis murdered millions on the basis of the idea that some ethnicities would never be loyal to the Reich and even if they were, the Reich did not want these trash ethnicities, anyway, and the best way to deal with this issue was to kill them all. Traditional empire-builders have considered their newly-conquered subjects to be barbarians that, while inferior, could be brought into the embrace of civilization and remade into loyal subjects via careful tutelage.

    The Japanese did in Asia what various daimyos had done in the run-up to the unification of Japan, and what rulers around the world (including all over Asia) have done to secure their territorial conquests. Even Genghis Khan killed only to cow potential opposition, and his soldiers and administrators included every ethnicity and religious faith in his empire. Hitler was the first large-scale empire builder to decide that surrendered peoples of the wrong ethnic type had to be killed to the last man, woman and child. His wickedness (and stupidity, from a strategic standpoint) is fairly unique, which is why there is so much written about him.

    The Germanic inhabitants of East Germany and the Soviet sector of Austria were fortunate that Stalin chose not to conduct the kind of root and branch extermination against them that Hitler wanted to complete against the Slavs. The German Empire's deliberate massacre of millions of Slavic and Jewish civilians - with its grotesque Final Solution - is so qualitatively different from the pacification measures employed by other empires that it justly deserves a separate mention of its own.
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  52. @Jim Christian
    Nice racial virtue-signaling, Corvinus, we get it, you are the GoodWhite no Black could ever hate, rob, rape or burgle.Yeah, yeah, vibrant diversity is only other people's problem, never yours and never because of Blacks. You're swell!

    Hmm. I always reckoned Corvinus was a Negro; what with the name; his reprehensible mastery of grammar, history, and logic; and his endless flag-waving for them. I think he has mentioned he lives in Mississippi as well, so the statistics support my theory.

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  53. @Lot
    Harrowing? Really? And yet Asians by the hundreds of millions would love to move here. The people who really "disdain and hate" Asians are other Asians. Mao's famines and Pol Pot's massacres are not something you much have to worry about from Americans. The Chinese in Burma and Indonesia however keep their bug out bags close.

    Asians qualify for minority development business loans under EO 11625. Get rid of that and few would come here.

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  54. @Tiny Duck
    Exactly. White supremacy is diverse in its hatred

    Chinese supremacy is diverse in its hatred.
    Black supremacy is diverse in its hatred.
    Asian supremacy is diverse in its hatred.
    Hispanic supremacy is diverse in its hatred.
    Islam is diverse in its hatred.

    Profound, I know…..

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  55. Lot says:
    @Yan Shen
    You often hear people on this blog complain about the "hordes" of Asians in this country. Let me just use the terms Chinese and Asian synonymously here to make things a little simpler. I've stated before that such complaints lack a fundamental sense of numeracy.

    There are something like 5 million Chinese who live in the United States versus 1.38 billion Chinese in mainland China. So the ratio of US to mainland Chinese is somewhere around 0.36%. It only feels like there are "hordes" of Asians in this country because of the disproportionate impact that East Asian Americans have in the US.

    If you look at the actual numbers, given that there are something like 1.6 billion or so people in East Asia, there aren't really all that many East Asians living in the West. The few that are are basically concentrated in a handful of Anglosphere countries. Probably the biggest draw for Chinese to come to the US these days is for higher education, but as I've noted in other threads, the numbers are declining and an increasing percentage of people who do come over are returning home for reasons of both cultural affinity and job opportunity.

    I've argued that as China further develops, it'll probably follow the same immigration pattern as Japan, with the noted caveat that Japanese do tend to be somewhat more insular. I could be wrong, but to me Chinese studying in the United States doesn't seem all that different from say 100-150 years ago, when Americans would study overseas in Europe in non-trivial numbers.

    I don’t think it is likely in the next 50 years that China will archive the political stability or standard of living Japan does right now. China is more likely to get old before it gets rich, and will have the extreme environmental problems present now get worse each year. It is just too large to be properly governed.

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  56. @Yan Shen
    I think you fundamentally misunderstand the point I'm trying to make. I'm actually happy with the United States and with the people here! My only point was that white, black, and Hispanic Americans, as evidenced by their racism towards East Asians, don't really reciprocate the same kind of decency that East Asian Americans exhibit towards their fellow countrymen.

    East Asians in this country by and large skew towards STEM and eschew the sort of identity politics and other kinds of nonsense that seem to be par for the course for black, Hispanic, and white Americans. They strive not to antagonize and instead aim to direct focus towards the good and useful things in life. I mean uh, we all remember the Asian guy in the library right? Hey, hey, hey, hey. This is library. At least when those awful Chinese take over this poor country, your children will get the privilege of being able to study in nice and quiet libraries, instead of having to listen to idiot leftists spouting the usual postmodern nonsense.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DHhy2Gk_xik

    To me that incident summed up everything wrong with non-East Asian America. Indeed, Tiger Mother wrote her book motivated by the recognition of the increasing schism between Confucian and non-Confucian ethos in modern day American society.

    Now, to get back to my main point, Asian bashing in this country has a rich history, going back to at least World War 2. It's one of the few things that unites both liberal and conservative whites. No need to suggest that left wing hatred of Trump somehow managed to corrupt even saintly progressives into being anti-Chinese. For at least the past 70 years, white liberals have been some of the biggest anti-East Asian racists in the world! As I've stated, this is a part of a general trend whereby it's basically considered acceptable to denigrate and dehumanize East Asians in this country in a way that we wouldn't countenance any other ethnic group. Yeah sure, white progressives always seem to have it in for those racist white conservatives, some will counter-argue, but at least the supposed racists are still fundamentally considered to be human and in theory capable of being redeemed from sin. As John Dower pointed out in his book War Without Mercy, in America, "all that was lacking in the perception of the Japanese enemy was a human like oneself".

    So where do we go from here, when one group of Americans clearly exhibits a greater sense of decency towards their fellow countrymen than do the others? That's the fundamental question that I pose. How can a multi-ethnic society survive when its fractured by hatred?

    What about this guy?

    “Sanctuary For ALL?” Tucker Debates Immigration With May Day Advocate

    Published on May 1, 2017

    5-1-17: Tucker Carlson interviews Steven Choi, Executive Director of the New York Immigration Coalition, about immigration policy.

    And these guys? (See linked comment for videos)

    Riots in Paris after police shoot Chinese man dead

    Protests hit the streets of Paris following police shooting of Chinese man

    France: Police killing exposes anguish of Chinese community

    http://www.unz.com/isteve/whatever-happened-to-frances-famed-liberte/#comment-1819420

    This is the most interesting part, and could explain why Asians (and Jews in the past) get much more upset and “pro-testy” than Caucasians when they are being discriminated against by “holistic admission” policies of elite universities:
    Now, studies have triggered aggression in MAOA-3R men with much more immediate experimental adversities in the form of game unfairness.
    [...]
    Monoamine oxidase A gene (MAOA) predicts behavioral aggression following provocation McDermott (2008) http://www.pnas.org/content/106/7/2118.full.pdf

    http://www.unz.com/isteve/reforming-stuyvesant-hs-admissions-should-blacks-whites-team-up-against-asian-grinds/#comment-1819101

    The rest of the Ivy League tends to follow a similar pattern, with the overall Jewish ratio being 381 percent, the Asian figure at 62 percent, and the ratio for non-Jewish whites a low 35 percent, all relative to their number of high-ability college-age students.
    [...]
    A good student might even be more than a bit of a follower, a conformist, standing ready to give satisfaction to the powers that be so that one can proceed to the next good school, taking another step up the ladder of meritocracy.
    [...]
    Buying influence…

    Largest Donors to Harvard No Longer Chinese

    http://www.unz.com/forum/white-students-unfair-advantage-in-admissions/#comment-1748458

    Jews and the Chinese seem to be equally ambitious and competitive, some might even call it cunning. Interestingly, the two groups/races seem to have comparable IQs and seem to be carrying the low-activity 3-repeat MAOA allele at very similar rates
    [...]
    Chua further claims that “Chinese Americans are three generations behind the Jews” as both Jewish Americans and Chinese Americans share lots of similar behaviors

    http://www.unz.com/forum/white-students-unfair-advantage-in-admissions/#comment-1754583

    I think you are being overly pessimistic and paranoid here:

    Personality traits and low-active diplotype on polymorphic loci Val158Met COMT, –uVNTR MAOA in men

    This investigation has been carried out with financial support from Russian Science Foundation (project No. 16-18-10222)

    The increase in mean values on the pessimism and paranoia scales (MMPI) might be the evidence of intense anxiety characteristic of this male group and reflect their inclination to depressive and paranoid reactions, hostility and sticking to the negative emotions. The peculiar personality traits of the people with low-active varieties of the genes under study listed above might have destructive influence and contribute to social maladjustment. Judging by the result we get, such people approve of expressing aggression and violence in the society, they are highly inclined to committing illegal actions and try to solve their problems by withdrawal from reality with the help of chemical agents or other, non-chemical addictive behaviors.

    http://programme.exordo.com/bga17/delegates/presentation/99/

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    • Replies: @FKA Max


    How Social Darwinism Made Modern China
    [...]
    These differences in the allele frequencies of certain genes between Europeans and other cultures/races is likely due to the different cultural and environmental selection pressures on the different groups:

    Worrier or Warrior? Explaining The COMT V158M Gene (rs4680)

    The Worrier (A)…Lower COMT, Higher Dopamine. (Met)

    AA is considered the ‘risk’ or ‘bad’ allele in part because people don’t do well with stress[...]
    [...]
    The Warrior (G)…Higher COMT, Lower Dopamine (Val)

    Better handling of stress and pain.

    Continental Differences

    G allele frequencies: East Asians have 71% G’s, Africans 69% G’s Americans 61% G’s, Europeans 48% G’s (R). So East Asians are going to be more likely to have GG vs Europeans.
    – https://selfhacked.com/2014/12/24/worrier-warrior-explaining-rs4680comt-v158m-gene/
    [...]
    About The Warrior Gene (MAOA) And What To Do If You Have It

    Different Frequencies Among Racial Groups and Gender

    The Warrior Gene was found to be more or less prevalent in different groups.

    The 3R version, which produces less MAO-A, was found in 59% of Black men, 56% of Maori men (an aboriginal New Zealand group), 54% of Chinese men and 34% of Caucasian men.
    – https://selfhacked.com/2014/12/07/about-mao-a-and-what-to-do-if-you-have-the-warrior-gene/
     
    - http://www.unz.com/runz/how-social-darwinism-made-modern-china-248/#comment-1866207
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  57. anonn says:
    @Cloudbuster
    OT: AEI has an article that attempts to figure out why white male labor participation rate is down so much.

    http://www.aei.org/publication/where-did-all-the-men-go/

    The article actually does contain the search pattern "immi" -- three times -- but only to, effectively, dismiss it as part of the problem. Nothing to see here. Move along.

    It whistles by the graveyard to a ridiculous extent. The article misleadingly mixes race data when discussing incarceration and "institutional barriers," and avoids graphing white male employment trends against immigration trends (that would be bad optics).

    So many words spent avoiding the real causes or any real solution to the problem. The author concludes, as a way of discussing what to do:

    Without precluding other approaches, I would propose that attention be focused on three broad general objectives:

    Revitalizing American business’ job-generating capacities.
    Reducing the disincentives to work in existing government-disability programs.
    Facing up to the enormous task of bringing released convicts back into the economy.

    In other words, cut taxes for billionaires, starve the poor to death, and start another meaningless discussion about over-incarceration.

    We used to be able to do something about mass unemployment. It was called the New Deal, and it ended the Great Depression (along with the war). If this author was serious the very first thing he should do is consider what we did to address this problem last time we had it.

    Hopefully the next Dem Presidential nominee will give us a federal jobs guarantee, along with national health care and free college, and own the country for the next generation or two.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Neoconned
    Amen brother.

    Im a Democrat bit the party is gone....they drank the.identity politics shroom tea.and.now.theyre dancing down the hole to nowhere.

    Theyre too stupid to propose much less enact Sanders type jobs programs and a return to govt welfare policies of the pre Reagan era.
    , @Cloudbuster
    There are plenty of respectable economists who believe the New Deal prolonged the depression.

    The progressive, fascist FDR was part of the problem, not the solution. Social Security was one of the nails in the crucifixion of the historic American nation.
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  58. You know Steve, a sense of Irony is wasted on these clowns at the NYT.

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  59. @peterike

    My only point was that white, black, and Hispanic Americans, as evidenced by their racism towards East Asians, don’t really reciprocate the same kind of decency that East Asian Americans exhibit towards their fellow countrymen.

     

    Lolz!!! Yeah, let's just forget about the human smuggling, sex trafficking, massive tax avoidance schemes, labor abuse, massive welfare and Social Security grifting, and test cheating, among other things. Pretty decent bunch, I'd say.

    “let’s just forget about the human smuggling, sex trafficking, massive tax avoidance schemes, labor abuse, massive welfare and Social Security grifting, and test cheating, among other things.”

    What do you have against the Democratic Party?

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  60. It is just too large to be properly governed.

    I can think of another country facing this problem, ever since its federalism was inverted such that the central government is master of the (more accountable and answerable) constituent states, long treated as if they were mere creatures and servants of the federal government rather than its creators and masters….

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  61. Nico says:
    @Yan Shen
    Sorry, forgot to mention one final thing. Recommending that someone of Chinese ancestry immigrate to Southeast Asia in some respects shows a laughable sense of history and a lack of understanding of HBD. I mean uh a cursory reading of World on Fire by Amy Chua more or less tells you all you need to know about how great things have been historically for the Chinese in places like Thailand and the Philippines as far as race relations go...

    Recommending that someone of Chinese ancestry immigrate to Southeast Asia in some respects shows a laughable sense of history and a lack of understanding of HBD. I mean uh a cursory reading of World on Fire by Amy Chua more or less tells you all you need to know about how great things have been historically for the Chinese in places like Thailand and the Philippines as far as race relations go…

    Two points:

    1. I have no interest in anything the Tiger Mother has to say but the above construction does appear to suggest that any racism you have encountered in the United States is on a far more benign level than what you would get elsewhere.
    2. I have nothing personally against the Chinese but if I’m reading the above construction correctly, juxtaposed with your exasperation at the “racism” of non-Oriental Americans, it does seem to suggest that your people elicit especially high levels of enduring mistrust and suspicion in a wide variety of diaspora settings.

    If these suggestions reflect reality then I would be inclined to say you ought to be grateful things are as good as they are for you and stop whining.

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  62. Those people ain’t the problem Corvinus – we all know them . It’s those who aren’t “decent and honest ” and your either a fool or a phony . I’m betting on the latter.

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  63. Speaking of unceasing wonders, did you see Joe Klein’s piece on Pat Buchanan?

    https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/08/books/review/nixons-white-house-wars-patrick-j-buchanan.html

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  64. @Mike1
    White Americans could try getting off their butt and trying to win. The incessant whining and self proclaimed victimization is getting old.

    I think the factories getting offshored and the endless H1B procession are bad things but come on. This "I was born here I should win for that reason" attitude is just sad.

    Winners win. Losers invent reasons why they should be on top.

    You have a deeply F*cked up concept of peoples, countries governments and nations.

    It is the people who are sovereign, not the parasitic filth in government who are bribed to destroy them.

    Countries lose legitimacy at the point where they are no longer controlled by, and catering to the needs of the people.

    This happened in the US in 1861.

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  65. @Yan Shen
    I think you fundamentally misunderstand the point I'm trying to make. I'm actually happy with the United States and with the people here! My only point was that white, black, and Hispanic Americans, as evidenced by their racism towards East Asians, don't really reciprocate the same kind of decency that East Asian Americans exhibit towards their fellow countrymen.

    East Asians in this country by and large skew towards STEM and eschew the sort of identity politics and other kinds of nonsense that seem to be par for the course for black, Hispanic, and white Americans. They strive not to antagonize and instead aim to direct focus towards the good and useful things in life. I mean uh, we all remember the Asian guy in the library right? Hey, hey, hey, hey. This is library. At least when those awful Chinese take over this poor country, your children will get the privilege of being able to study in nice and quiet libraries, instead of having to listen to idiot leftists spouting the usual postmodern nonsense.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DHhy2Gk_xik

    To me that incident summed up everything wrong with non-East Asian America. Indeed, Tiger Mother wrote her book motivated by the recognition of the increasing schism between Confucian and non-Confucian ethos in modern day American society.

    Now, to get back to my main point, Asian bashing in this country has a rich history, going back to at least World War 2. It's one of the few things that unites both liberal and conservative whites. No need to suggest that left wing hatred of Trump somehow managed to corrupt even saintly progressives into being anti-Chinese. For at least the past 70 years, white liberals have been some of the biggest anti-East Asian racists in the world! As I've stated, this is a part of a general trend whereby it's basically considered acceptable to denigrate and dehumanize East Asians in this country in a way that we wouldn't countenance any other ethnic group. Yeah sure, white progressives always seem to have it in for those racist white conservatives, some will counter-argue, but at least the supposed racists are still fundamentally considered to be human and in theory capable of being redeemed from sin. As John Dower pointed out in his book War Without Mercy, in America, "all that was lacking in the perception of the Japanese enemy was a human like oneself".

    So where do we go from here, when one group of Americans clearly exhibits a greater sense of decency towards their fellow countrymen than do the others? That's the fundamental question that I pose. How can a multi-ethnic society survive when its fractured by hatred?

    “all that was lacking in the perception of the _______ enemy was a human like oneself”.

    Let’s play fill in the blank.

    Let’s play fill in the blank.

    Let’s play fill in the blank.

    My old farmer neighbor who survived the latter would like to play.

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  66. @Anon
    The real GET OUT.

    http://alt-right-news.blogspot.com/2017/05/liberal-white-woman-achieves-dream-of.html

    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/why-nar-will-never-be-prosecuted-facilitating-money-laundering

    The National Association of Realtors is immune from federal money laundering laws.

    One of the reasons the Bay Area & Manhattan are sitting on oceans of excess cash right now.

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  67. @FKA Max
    What about this guy?

    "Sanctuary For ALL?" Tucker Debates Immigration With May Day Advocate

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F8NkkYgpnYg

    Published on May 1, 2017

    5-1-17: Tucker Carlson interviews Steven Choi, Executive Director of the New York Immigration Coalition, about immigration policy.


    And these guys? (See linked comment for videos)

    Riots in Paris after police shoot Chinese man dead

    Protests hit the streets of Paris following police shooting of Chinese man

    France: Police killing exposes anguish of Chinese community

     

    - http://www.unz.com/isteve/whatever-happened-to-frances-famed-liberte/#comment-1819420

    This is the most interesting part, and could explain why Asians (and Jews in the past) get much more upset and “pro-testy” than Caucasians when they are being discriminated against by “holistic admission” policies of elite universities:
    Now, studies have triggered aggression in MAOA-3R men with much more immediate experimental adversities in the form of game unfairness.
    [...]
    Monoamine oxidase A gene (MAOA) predicts behavioral aggression following provocation McDermott (2008) http://www.pnas.org/content/106/7/2118.full.pdf
     
    - http://www.unz.com/isteve/reforming-stuyvesant-hs-admissions-should-blacks-whites-team-up-against-asian-grinds/#comment-1819101


    The rest of the Ivy League tends to follow a similar pattern, with the overall Jewish ratio being 381 percent, the Asian figure at 62 percent, and the ratio for non-Jewish whites a low 35 percent, all relative to their number of high-ability college-age students.
    [...]
    A good student might even be more than a bit of a follower, a conformist, standing ready to give satisfaction to the powers that be so that one can proceed to the next good school, taking another step up the ladder of meritocracy.
    [...]
    Buying influence…

    Largest Donors to Harvard No Longer Chinese



    http://www.asianphilanthropyforum.org/donor-harvard-chinese/

    American-Buddhist billionaires, who are most likely ethnically Jewish, are selling out to the Chinese [...]
    [ Like the president, a rising number of international billionaires have begun to worry that backing the Dalai Lama could pose a risk to their personal wealth by potentially limiting access to lucrative markets in China. ] - http://www.unz.com/freed/iq-a-skeptics-view/#comment-1731013
     
    - http://www.unz.com/forum/white-students-unfair-advantage-in-admissions/#comment-1748458

    Jews and the Chinese seem to be equally ambitious and competitive, some might even call it cunning. Interestingly, the two groups/races seem to have comparable IQs and seem to be carrying the low-activity 3-repeat MAOA allele at very similar rates
    [...]
    Chua further claims that “Chinese Americans are three generations behind the Jews” as both Jewish Americans and Chinese Americans share lots of similar behaviors
     
    - http://www.unz.com/forum/white-students-unfair-advantage-in-admissions/#comment-1754583

    I think you are being overly pessimistic and paranoid here:

    Personality traits and low-active diplotype on polymorphic loci Val158Met COMT, –uVNTR MAOA in men

    This investigation has been carried out with financial support from Russian Science Foundation (project No. 16-18-10222)

    The increase in mean values on the pessimism and paranoia scales (MMPI) might be the evidence of intense anxiety characteristic of this male group and reflect their inclination to depressive and paranoid reactions, hostility and sticking to the negative emotions. The peculiar personality traits of the people with low-active varieties of the genes under study listed above might have destructive influence and contribute to social maladjustment. Judging by the result we get, such people approve of expressing aggression and violence in the society, they are highly inclined to committing illegal actions and try to solve their problems by withdrawal from reality with the help of chemical agents or other, non-chemical addictive behaviors.
     
    - http://programme.exordo.com/bga17/delegates/presentation/99/

    How Social Darwinism Made Modern China
    [...]
    These differences in the allele frequencies of certain genes between Europeans and other cultures/races is likely due to the different cultural and environmental selection pressures on the different groups:

    Worrier or Warrior? Explaining The COMT V158M Gene (rs4680)

    The Worrier (A)…Lower COMT, Higher Dopamine. (Met)

    AA is considered the ‘risk’ or ‘bad’ allele in part because people don’t do well with stress[...]
    [...]
    The Warrior (G)…Higher COMT, Lower Dopamine (Val)

    Better handling of stress and pain.

    Continental Differences

    G allele frequencies: East Asians have 71% G’s, Africans 69% G’s Americans 61% G’s, Europeans 48% G’s (R). So East Asians are going to be more likely to have GG vs Europeans.
    https://selfhacked.com/2014/12/24/worrier-warrior-explaining-rs4680comt-v158m-gene/
    [...]
    About The Warrior Gene (MAOA) And What To Do If You Have It

    Different Frequencies Among Racial Groups and Gender

    The Warrior Gene was found to be more or less prevalent in different groups.

    The 3R version, which produces less MAO-A, was found in 59% of Black men, 56% of Maori men (an aboriginal New Zealand group), 54% of Chinese men and 34% of Caucasian men.
    https://selfhacked.com/2014/12/07/about-mao-a-and-what-to-do-if-you-have-the-warrior-gene/

    http://www.unz.com/runz/how-social-darwinism-made-modern-china-248/#comment-1866207

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  68. @George Weinbaum
    We should auction permanent resident visas. Say 325,000 per year, or .001 of the current US population. How much might they bring? Say $300,000 each. That's for each person. A family of five pays $1,500,000. That's $97.5 billion a year. Look at the benefits: no more immigration lawyers, no more immigration judges. No more H-1B visas.
    Would these immigrants be well behaved? Should any be convicted of a felony, he loses his visa, his $300,000 and gets deported after serving his sentence.
    We can only wish.
    I oppose the current EB-5 program. As currently run it is a scam.

    Pittsburgh Thatcherite proposed a similar program….

    Auction off citizenship, i like the program…..

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  69. @Yan Shen
    Well I haven't looked at or thought through any of the economics. I want to say maybe $500,000 is one order of magnitude too cheap, as opposed to two? As the article points out, at most 10,000 of these are granted each year, and I believe roughly 80% or so of the EB-5 visas are handed out to mainland Chinese. Are there numbers for what people actually end up investing? I'm sure some invest more than the minimum required?

    By the way, one hardly needs to credit Trump for getting the liberal establishment to bash Asians. As I've long been saying, Asian bashing in this country is as American as baseball or apple pie. It's one of the few things that unites both white liberals and white conservatives, as well as the black and Hispanic American populations. It used to be most virulently directed towards the Japanese, but these days is increasingly directed towards the Chinese and maybe to a lesser extent the Koreans.

    As a Chinese American, one of the most harrowing things about living in this country is the shocking disdain, oftentimes bordering on hatred, that white, black, and Hispanic Americans harbor towards people of East Asian descent.

    Being a Japanophile, i dont dislike Asians.

    If anything i often prefer their company to that of my drama prone addict/drunk white trash relatives & neighbors.

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  70. @Moshe
    Sure , but outside of San Francisco aren't they mainly people that consider the rest of us complete and total aliens?

    There are Chinatowns in every major city, in many of which - INCLUDING NEW YORK!! - the locals not only don't speak English but are actively OPPOSED to having any sort of interaction with non-Chinese people if it doesn't make them money.

    Remember that video of a little girl RUN OVER in China and OVER A HUNDRED Chinese passed by before one person cared to call an ambulance?

    In San Francisco I saw a Chinese person go out of his way to give a shit-encrusted hobo a banana. It was at night on a daek street and he certainly didn't think anyone was watching him.

    It blew my mind.

    I took a picture from a distance and then walked over to him to share how deeply moved I was. And we agreed that this wasn't a very ordinary thing for a Chinese person to do.

    But he did, and it moved me.

    Then look at the nouveau rich Chinese visitors and pseudo-citizens, many of whom obviously made their money in dirty dirty ways. When they aren't ignoring Americans they tend to be rude to Americans.

    What percentage of Chinese earnings go to charity of any kind? Even to a charity designed to help bring in more Chinese?

    You know how poor Chinese end up in America? I'll tell you. I lived in Flushing, NYC and had numerous conversations with Chinese people (all pleasant, when I'm not on the internet I'm actually a pretty loving guy :) ).

    And here's what I learned about the young girl "masseuses".

    Some rich Chinaman goes to their godforsaken poor poor village and shows everyone videos of America paved with gold. EASY MONEY EVERYWHERE.

    All it will take is $50,000 to sneak them in, make fake marriages, blah blah blah and pay the guy's fee.

    The whole town raises the money. She's a native daughter and she will be taught English, make huge money and be the savior of the village.

    But of course there is the fine print and the no print.

    The no print is that hwr new owner will ensure that she does not go to achool and does not learn English. She must be dependant on him and whomever he sells her to, forever.

    Until 26 or so she will jerk old Chinese men off.

    Then she will breathe toxic vapors in a nail salon for the next few decades.

    The fine print is that there are - of course - hidden costs.

    Which - of course - on a minimum wage salary (plus 20% of tips!) she will never be able to repay.

    Her passport is gone.

    Then there are the Chinese busses to casinos that turn over with regularity and where White people are LITERALLY sent to the back of the bus.

    They aren't violent. And that is a BIG PLUS.

    But who needa them here? Heck, who needs ANYONE here?

    Those Injuns who worked with the settlers were traitors. And look at the result!

    Thoae who subsequently imported cheap French labor, German labor, Irish labor, Polish labor, Jewish labor, Chinese labor, Hatian labor, Indonesian labor, Mexican labor...

    In every single instance they were traitors to their co-inhabitants.

    We don't need new people. We never did.

    And we espescially don't need scary people like the Chinese.

    Except for that fellow in San Francisco and other, similarly moral, people. Not that we need them either but if we're stupid enough to import anyone I don't mind those types.

    But good damn luck finding them!

    A great post.

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  71. @George Weinbaum
    We should auction permanent resident visas. Say 325,000 per year, or .001 of the current US population. How much might they bring? Say $300,000 each. That's for each person. A family of five pays $1,500,000. That's $97.5 billion a year. Look at the benefits: no more immigration lawyers, no more immigration judges. No more H-1B visas.
    Would these immigrants be well behaved? Should any be convicted of a felony, he loses his visa, his $300,000 and gets deported after serving his sentence.
    We can only wish.
    I oppose the current EB-5 program. As currently run it is a scam.

    Five Rules of US Whoring-Citizenship:

    1.) We Will ALWAYS charge you more than bankrupt-prone Cyprus, sh*tty Bulgaria, or microorganismistic Malta.

    When you think of USA, I want you to think of Big Shiny Singapore on the Top of the Hill.

    You dare to ask why?

    Well, you just failed the first step of application process; good luck with your new Latvian passport that you just obtained for a paltry € 35.000!*

    * I’ m certainly sure that your wife and kids will appreciate your art of deal mentality once when Vlad’s T- 90 Pig Iron starts caterpillaring Riga’s pavements.

    2.) Extended Family Members are not to be considered for the US citizenship under existing Immigration Laws for a minimum of 15 years after you had been approved for your own Whoring- Citizenship.

    3.)Being able to pass The Cricket Test is Must.
    Here, in USA, we call it :
    “Do Not Wave a Flag of Your Country of Origin During Qualifier Soccer Match Between Younameistan and Your New Homeland.”
    Is that really too much to ask, [email protected]?

    4.) Your Whoring Citizenship could be revoked at any time if you commit any other crime besides jaywalking.

    5.) No Twofersisms;
    You will not be allowed to keep your previous, or obtain citizenship of any other country* besides USA.
    *Having a Citizenship of Self Proclaimed America’s Eternally Allied State will not help you to be excluded from this clause.

    Current Citizenship Exchange Price List:

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    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    “Do Not Wave a Flag of Your Country of Origin During Qualifier Soccer Match Between Younameistan and Your New Homeland.”

    Or at least don't drunk drive around Pasadena blowing your car horn to the tune of "La Cucaracha" for four hours after your real country beats the USA at the Rose Bowl.

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  72. @bored identity
    Five Rules of US Whoring-Citizenship:

    1.) We Will ALWAYS charge you more than bankrupt-prone Cyprus, sh*tty Bulgaria, or microorganismistic Malta.

    When you think of USA, I want you to think of Big Shiny Singapore on the Top of the Hill.

    You dare to ask why?

    Well, you just failed the first step of application process; good luck with your new Latvian passport that you just obtained for a paltry € 35.000!*

    * I' m certainly sure that your wife and kids will appreciate your art of deal mentality once when Vlad's T- 90 Pig Iron starts caterpillaring Riga's pavements.

    2.) Extended Family Members are not to be considered for the US citizenship under existing Immigration Laws for a minimum of 15 years after you had been approved for your own Whoring- Citizenship.

    3.)Being able to pass The Cricket Test is Must.
    Here, in USA, we call it :
    "Do Not Wave a Flag of Your Country of Origin During Qualifier Soccer Match Between Younameistan and Your New Homeland."
    Is that really too much to ask, [email protected]?


    4.) Your Whoring Citizenship could be revoked at any time if you commit any other crime besides jaywalking.


    5.) No Twofersisms;
    You will not be allowed to keep your previous, or obtain citizenship of any other country* besides USA.
    *Having a Citizenship of Self Proclaimed America's Eternally Allied State will not help you to be excluded from this clause.

    Current Citizenship Exchange Price List:

    https://assets.weforum.org/editor/uhf_fFfE0IPa40sh20aSRiwuKE3jp5xGeQ4o0SLbY8Y.jpg

    “Do Not Wave a Flag of Your Country of Origin During Qualifier Soccer Match Between Younameistan and Your New Homeland.”

    Or at least don’t drunk drive around Pasadena blowing your car horn to the tune of “La Cucaracha” for four hours after your real country beats the USA at the Rose Bowl.

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  73. @anonn
    So many words spent avoiding the real causes or any real solution to the problem. The author concludes, as a way of discussing what to do:

    Without precluding other approaches, I would propose that attention be focused on three broad general objectives:

    Revitalizing American business’ job-generating capacities.
    Reducing the disincentives to work in existing government-disability programs.
    Facing up to the enormous task of bringing released convicts back into the economy.
     
    In other words, cut taxes for billionaires, starve the poor to death, and start another meaningless discussion about over-incarceration.

    We used to be able to do something about mass unemployment. It was called the New Deal, and it ended the Great Depression (along with the war). If this author was serious the very first thing he should do is consider what we did to address this problem last time we had it.

    Hopefully the next Dem Presidential nominee will give us a federal jobs guarantee, along with national health care and free college, and own the country for the next generation or two.

    Amen brother.

    Im a Democrat bit the party is gone….they drank the.identity politics shroom tea.and.now.theyre dancing down the hole to nowhere.

    Theyre too stupid to propose much less enact Sanders type jobs programs and a return to govt welfare policies of the pre Reagan era.

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  74. NOTA says:
    @Autochthon

    As John Dower pointed out in his book War Without Mercy, [sic] in America, “all that was lacking in the perception of the Japanese enemy was a human like oneself”. [sic]
     
    Not a single thing was lacking in our perception of the Japanese enemy; we perceived them with glacial clarity (I don't know who John Dower is and I do not care; I have it first hand from my father, who fought them). They were ruthless, traitorous, despicable, murderous, raping bastards, and we dealt with them accordingly.

    Do not conflate the current whimsy of Hayao Miyazaki with the past realities of Pearl Harbor, the Bataan Death March, and the Rape of Nanking. The well-mannered, deferential, and mostly passive Japanese of 2017 are largely creatures of the Americans of 1945.

    The Japanese troops in WW2 were brutal and ruthless and raping, but they weren’t traitorous–instead, they were often loyal way past the point when it made sense. That’s probably a Japanese cultural trait, perhaps even a racial one.

    One of the amazing accomplishments of WW2 is that we seem to have converted the Germans and the Japanese into peace-loving societies. Considering what utterly scary, nasty bastards they were when we were fighting them, that’s a pretty good outcome.

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    • Troll: Hippopotamusdrome
    • Replies: @Autochthon
    I agree with your main point. I cite treachery because they began hostilities by destroying most of our fleet by surprise despite feigning continued in interest in the ongoing negotiations to preserve peace and avoid war, including repeated reassurances via diplomatic channels of their peaceful intentions mere hours before the attack.
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  75. @Yan Shen
    I think you fundamentally misunderstand the point I'm trying to make. I'm actually happy with the United States and with the people here! My only point was that white, black, and Hispanic Americans, as evidenced by their racism towards East Asians, don't really reciprocate the same kind of decency that East Asian Americans exhibit towards their fellow countrymen.

    East Asians in this country by and large skew towards STEM and eschew the sort of identity politics and other kinds of nonsense that seem to be par for the course for black, Hispanic, and white Americans. They strive not to antagonize and instead aim to direct focus towards the good and useful things in life. I mean uh, we all remember the Asian guy in the library right? Hey, hey, hey, hey. This is library. At least when those awful Chinese take over this poor country, your children will get the privilege of being able to study in nice and quiet libraries, instead of having to listen to idiot leftists spouting the usual postmodern nonsense.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DHhy2Gk_xik

    To me that incident summed up everything wrong with non-East Asian America. Indeed, Tiger Mother wrote her book motivated by the recognition of the increasing schism between Confucian and non-Confucian ethos in modern day American society.

    Now, to get back to my main point, Asian bashing in this country has a rich history, going back to at least World War 2. It's one of the few things that unites both liberal and conservative whites. No need to suggest that left wing hatred of Trump somehow managed to corrupt even saintly progressives into being anti-Chinese. For at least the past 70 years, white liberals have been some of the biggest anti-East Asian racists in the world! As I've stated, this is a part of a general trend whereby it's basically considered acceptable to denigrate and dehumanize East Asians in this country in a way that we wouldn't countenance any other ethnic group. Yeah sure, white progressives always seem to have it in for those racist white conservatives, some will counter-argue, but at least the supposed racists are still fundamentally considered to be human and in theory capable of being redeemed from sin. As John Dower pointed out in his book War Without Mercy, in America, "all that was lacking in the perception of the Japanese enemy was a human like oneself".

    So where do we go from here, when one group of Americans clearly exhibits a greater sense of decency towards their fellow countrymen than do the others? That's the fundamental question that I pose. How can a multi-ethnic society survive when its fractured by hatred?

    hmm in the wake of the Steinle killing in San Francisco, the Chinese Law Caucus, emboldened in recent years as our truly lousy, sell-out mayor, Ed Lee, rose from those ranks, was happy to join iwth the pro-illegal immigrant groups. Joined iwth anyone in fact. Along with other groups.

    Not a pretty sight, at all. The rhetoric got quite ugly. Those in the forefront came within whiskers of stating out loud that they did not care as a white woman had died. WHY they sided a 5 time illegal entrant with a long string of convictions, 15 years incarcerated and then a man who stole a gun (a detail they dislike to disclose but it has squeaked out) and shot a young women. White, citizen, tax payer, California native.

    Took a while for it to come out but the reason the media low balls the railroad track suicides down the Peninsula is the high proportion of Chinese HS students, particularly from Gunn School engaging in and successfully committing suicide.

    I gather the above is not happening in some hot house vacuum here in San Francisco, Northern Cal, the Peninsula….

    Again, not a pretty picture, but a protected picture, that’s for sure.

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  76. @NOTA
    The Japanese troops in WW2 were brutal and ruthless and raping, but they weren't traitorous--instead, they were often loyal way past the point when it made sense. That's probably a Japanese cultural trait, perhaps even a racial one.

    One of the amazing accomplishments of WW2 is that we seem to have converted the Germans and the Japanese into peace-loving societies. Considering what utterly scary, nasty bastards they were when we were fighting them, that's a pretty good outcome.

    I agree with your main point. I cite treachery because they began hostilities by destroying most of our fleet by surprise despite feigning continued in interest in the ongoing negotiations to preserve peace and avoid war, including repeated reassurances via diplomatic channels of their peaceful intentions mere hours before the attack.

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  77. @anonn
    So many words spent avoiding the real causes or any real solution to the problem. The author concludes, as a way of discussing what to do:

    Without precluding other approaches, I would propose that attention be focused on three broad general objectives:

    Revitalizing American business’ job-generating capacities.
    Reducing the disincentives to work in existing government-disability programs.
    Facing up to the enormous task of bringing released convicts back into the economy.
     
    In other words, cut taxes for billionaires, starve the poor to death, and start another meaningless discussion about over-incarceration.

    We used to be able to do something about mass unemployment. It was called the New Deal, and it ended the Great Depression (along with the war). If this author was serious the very first thing he should do is consider what we did to address this problem last time we had it.

    Hopefully the next Dem Presidential nominee will give us a federal jobs guarantee, along with national health care and free college, and own the country for the next generation or two.

    There are plenty of respectable economists who believe the New Deal prolonged the depression.

    The progressive, fascist FDR was part of the problem, not the solution. Social Security was one of the nails in the crucifixion of the historic American nation.

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  78. Lest you forget, we’re hardly daisies ourselves. Nuking Japan, the Korean War (we dropped more tonnage than during all of WW2) and the Vietnam War ought to give Asians plenty to worry about over there.

    Your overall point (though not your goal) is silly. If the Mongols had done their deeds yesterday, they’d have killed something like 500m people (going by memory, based on math I did a while back that I’m not going to repeat). Mao killed 78m people in a China with about half the current population, so today he’d have tallied up something more like 140m people.

    In that context (the proper one), we aren’t even a drop in the bucket. East Asians would be completely silly to give the threat we represent any consideration at all, next to what they should be giving their own kind.

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    • Replies: @Autochthon
    I'm the first to agree our adventures in Korea and Viet Nam were ill-advised nonsense.

    However, our actions against the Japanese Empire were defensive, and suggest no reason to be wary about anything at all – except the terrible wrath consequential to invading the U.S.A.
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  79. Being a Japanophile, i dont dislike Asians.

    If anything i often prefer their company to that of my drama prone addict/drunk white trash relatives & neighbors.

    I assume you’re posting from Japan?

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  80. @Autochthon

    As John Dower pointed out in his book War Without Mercy, [sic] in America, “all that was lacking in the perception of the Japanese enemy was a human like oneself”. [sic]
     
    Not a single thing was lacking in our perception of the Japanese enemy; we perceived them with glacial clarity (I don't know who John Dower is and I do not care; I have it first hand from my father, who fought them). They were ruthless, traitorous, despicable, murderous, raping bastards, and we dealt with them accordingly.

    Do not conflate the current whimsy of Hayao Miyazaki with the past realities of Pearl Harbor, the Bataan Death March, and the Rape of Nanking. The well-mannered, deferential, and mostly passive Japanese of 2017 are largely creatures of the Americans of 1945.

    Worse than Nazis? It’s interesting to contrast our attitudes toward the Japanese and German enemy. Japanese were regarded as subhuman. Japanese Americans were imprisoned – not Germans. German POWs got treated great – they had such a swell time in America that many emigrated after the war. German POWs in the South were treated better than American black troops. German generals like Rommel were considered worthy adversaries. Etc.

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  81. I’m no apologist for the Third Reich and I am uninterested in rank-ordering monsters or disputing retrospectively the wisdom of this or that action on the home front, but the Japanese of the time were monsters as surely as the Nazis were.

    Rommel, as you probably know, was a worthy adversary; what’s more, he was not an especially horrible person: he was a competent (arguably brilliant) military man by and large uninterested in, and indeed opposed to, Hitler’s sick treatment of Jews, Slavs, etc.

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  82. @Svigor

    Lest you forget, we’re hardly daisies ourselves. Nuking Japan, the Korean War (we dropped more tonnage than during all of WW2) and the Vietnam War ought to give Asians plenty to worry about over there.
     
    Your overall point (though not your goal) is silly. If the Mongols had done their deeds yesterday, they'd have killed something like 500m people (going by memory, based on math I did a while back that I'm not going to repeat). Mao killed 78m people in a China with about half the current population, so today he'd have tallied up something more like 140m people.

    In that context (the proper one), we aren't even a drop in the bucket. East Asians would be completely silly to give the threat we represent any consideration at all, next to what they should be giving their own kind.

    I’m the first to agree our adventures in Korea and Viet Nam were ill-advised nonsense.

    However, our actions against the Japanese Empire were defensive, and suggest no reason to be wary about anything at all – except the terrible wrath consequential to invading the U.S.A.

    Read More
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  83. @Autochthon

    As John Dower pointed out in his book War Without Mercy, [sic] in America, “all that was lacking in the perception of the Japanese enemy was a human like oneself”. [sic]
     
    Not a single thing was lacking in our perception of the Japanese enemy; we perceived them with glacial clarity (I don't know who John Dower is and I do not care; I have it first hand from my father, who fought them). They were ruthless, traitorous, despicable, murderous, raping bastards, and we dealt with them accordingly.

    Do not conflate the current whimsy of Hayao Miyazaki with the past realities of Pearl Harbor, the Bataan Death March, and the Rape of Nanking. The well-mannered, deferential, and mostly passive Japanese of 2017 are largely creatures of the Americans of 1945.

    The Japanese killed for a fairly traditional reason – to enforce their writ, by cowing any potential opposition, and in numbers that were fairly moderate relative to historical numbers in both absolute and percentage terms. The Nazis murdered millions on the basis of the idea that some ethnicities would never be loyal to the Reich and even if they were, the Reich did not want these trash ethnicities, anyway, and the best way to deal with this issue was to kill them all. Traditional empire-builders have considered their newly-conquered subjects to be barbarians that, while inferior, could be brought into the embrace of civilization and remade into loyal subjects via careful tutelage.

    The Japanese did in Asia what various daimyos had done in the run-up to the unification of Japan, and what rulers around the world (including all over Asia) have done to secure their territorial conquests. Even Genghis Khan killed only to cow potential opposition, and his soldiers and administrators included every ethnicity and religious faith in his empire. Hitler was the first large-scale empire builder to decide that surrendered peoples of the wrong ethnic type had to be killed to the last man, woman and child. His wickedness (and stupidity, from a strategic standpoint) is fairly unique, which is why there is so much written about him.

    The Germanic inhabitants of East Germany and the Soviet sector of Austria were fortunate that Stalin chose not to conduct the kind of root and branch extermination against them that Hitler wanted to complete against the Slavs. The German Empire’s deliberate massacre of millions of Slavic and Jewish civilians – with its grotesque Final Solution – is so qualitatively different from the pacification measures employed by other empires that it justly deserves a separate mention of its own.

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The “war hero” candidate buried information about POWs left behind in Vietnam.
What Was John McCain's True Wartime Record in Vietnam?
The evidence is clear — but often ignored