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Will Classy "European-American" Replace Downscale "White" in Future Identity Politics?
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White

A friend does a little focus-grouping now and then of political language.

He reports that any concern for the rights, interests, or well-being of “whites” strikes respondents as downscale.

The word “white” seems just plain prole.

In contrast, the idea of “European” identity seems kind of classy to the Americans he tries it out upon.

European

Complaining about anti-white racism just makes you sound like a loser, but complaining about Europhobia sounds pretty scientific and academic. Anti-Europhobia activists have clearly been to college!

But one roadblock to the growth of “European” identity in the U.S. has been that the federal government includes a lot of non-European peoples in its official definition of “white:”

A person having origins in any of the original peoples of Europe, the Middle East, or North Africa.

Jared Taylor has long campaigned in his gentlemanly fashion to nurture a white identify politics to defend the interests of white people the way Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton noncontroversially lead a black identity politics movement. But he has had a slow time getting many to take his concept seriously.

Taylor has adopted classy symbols such as the great German Romantic painter Caspar David Friedrich’s painting Wanderer Above a Sea of Fog.

But that’s like baling out the Pacific Ocean with a tea cup after endless media denunciations of anybody taking pride in their white heritage or feeling solidarity with other white people as obviously a gap-toothed, hateful moron.

Anybody self-identifying as “white” seems kind of pathetic or low-brow.

European

On the other hand, “European” sounds pretty classy.

But at present, lots of white Americans don’t have roots in Europe.

However, the Obama Administration may be on the way to solving that problem for the nascent European Identity movement in America by pandering to the Flight from White.

The lame duck administration appears to be getting ready to break out “Middle Eastern or North African” as a separate racial category different from “whites,” thus making “European” an official category in federal racial reports.

(This separation of MENA’s from whites hasn’t happened yet, but the Obama Administration has given a lot of hints that it will likely do this unless anybody objects.)

The new MENA category would facilitate complaining about “everything being run by old white men,” as the Washington Post article makes clear:

Maz Jobrani, an Iranian American actor and comedian who made a video trying to persuade people to write in “Iranian” for the 2010 Census, said that while he supports the new category, other Iranians might perceive it as a slight.

“Some Iranians are very Iranocentric; they really want it to be known that they are separate from Arabs, and when you’re talking about race, Iranians are quick to remind you that Iranians are white,” he said. “But I think it’s good to have some kind of minority status, and if that means that we’ve got to get together with others from the same region, I think there’s some good that can come of that.”

If a MENA box does appear on the next census, it may take time for communities to embrace it, Jobrani added.

“When you first come here to America, you are kind of a third-class citizen. People have a tendency to put their heads down and not make any noise and just get through their daily lives,” he said. “But then you have their children who grow up here and say, ‘How can I sit back and complain about everything being run by old white men if I don’t get involved?’ It’s realizing that your voice counts.”

And that’s the American Establishment’s highest priority these days: encouraging newcomers to “complain about everything being run by old white men.”

After all, there’s nothing more unfashionable than being called white.

The federal government’s definitions of race tend to have a lot of influence because they determine how statistics are collected, which then make some paths easier to think about than others. If the government changes the rules for who is eligible for money and prizes, everybody winds up playing along. For example, in the 1970s, East Asian immigrant businessmen were known as Orientals and thus eligible for some lucrative preferences in government contracting and low interest loans under the concept of Minority Business Development. In contrast, South Asian immigrant businessmen were classified as white or Caucasian and thus didn’t get any minority goodies. So, the South Asians complained until they got kicked out of the profitless white category and grouped with the Orientals in the new Asian category.

Genetically, South Asians tend to be somewhat closer to Europeans than they are to, say, Chinese, but who cares about science when being officially nonwhite is worth real money?

And this pan-Mediterranean definition of whites (or, as they used to be known in official terminology, “Caucasians”) reflected not just anthropological science but general American impressions. In a pre-diversity America focused on whites, blacks, and American Indians, Lebanese were definitely in the general white bucket.

Danny Thomas, born Amos Muzyad Yakhoob Kairouz in Michigan in 1912 to Lebanese Maronite Catholics, was a huge TV star in the 1950s and an admired philanthropist who founded the St. Jude Children’s Research Hospital. He was the first gentile to become a member of Hillcrest Country Club in Los Angeles and the PGA held the Danny Thomas Memphis Classic golf tournament from 1970-1984. His daughter Marlo Thomas succeeded him as a TV star.

Everybody loved this guy. Going to a Catholic school in the San Fernando Valley in the 1960s, Danny Thomas was seen as a great Catholic American.

But Lebanon’s in Asia.

For purposes of keeping old data that didn’t break out “MENA” relevant, the new MENA category would likely make the MENA category and the new rump category of European whites add up to the old, broader definition of whites. The Obama Administration says:

This would address potential inconsistencies across data collections where data describing a Middle Eastern or North African group could be reported separately for detailed analyses (for example, where sample size permits), but otherwise could be aggregated into the “White” reporting category to facilitate comparability across information collections that would not have large enough samples to permit separate, detailed reporting.

I think that means that in future Census data, “Whites” will equal “MENA” (a person having origins in any of the original peoples of the Middle East or North Africa) plus Group X (a person having origins in any of the original peoples of Europe). As far as I’ve heard, nobody has thought about what Group X will be officially called. But the simplest, most natural name for this rump group unaffected by the proposed changes would be “Europeans” or “European-Americans.”

In other words, the feds will need to keep the word “whites” to keep relevant all the earlier data collected when Middle Easterners and North Africans were lumped in with Europeans. So in the future, “whites” will continue to exist for the federal government as supercategory of MENA plus Europeans.

European

Going forward, the existence of a MENA implies another category, which would naturally be called “Europeans” or “European-Americans.”

One detail that’s up in the air at present in the federal plans is whether Armenians and Georgians from Asia just south of the European border in the Caucasus would be included in the MENA grouping. The Washington Post reports:

The Census Bureau’s working MENA classification includes people with origins in Algeria, Bahrain, Egypt, Iraq, Iran, Israel, Jordan, Kuwait, Lebanon, Libya, Morocco, Oman, Palestine, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Syria, Tunisia, the United Arab Emirates or Yemen, as well as those who identify as Amazigh or Berber, Arab, Assyrian, Bedouin, Chaldean, Copt, Druze, Kurdish or Syriac.

Groups that could be added in the future include Turks, Sudanese, Somalis, Afghans, Armenians, Azerbaijanis, Cypriots, Djiboutians, Georgians, Mauritanians, South Sudanese and Turkish Cypriots, census officials said.

I think the issue is that Turkey is partly European in territory and the US officially supports Turkey’s accession to the European Union. That then raises the question of what to do with Asian countries beyond Turkey like Armenia and Georgia that are outposts of Christendom.

For example, here is my Los Angeles city councilman, Paul Krekorian, a third generation San Fernando Valley resident who looks a little bit like me, although he appears to shave more regularly.

Krekorian makes a big deal about being Armenian, although his Wikipedia page leaves it ambiguous whether or not his mother was also Armenian.

(I’d say that, like a lot of successful politicians, he looks a little Irish, but I’m just guessing.)

Traditionally, in California, people with names like Paul Krekorian and former Governor George Deukmejian were always considered white.

When Deukmejian defeated L.A. mayor Tom Bradley for governor in 1982 and 1986, it was always seen as the white guy versus the black guy.

But, Armenia is not, technically, in Europe. It lies in Asia.

And there are big advantages to being reclassified as non-white.

But all that are just details.

Perhaps after the Obama Lame Duck Administration announces the MENA category, the non-MENA among the old whites will start using a more stylish new term like “European-American” to push for their interests.

Stranger things have happened.

Once the federal government swings its power behind the “European-American” monicker, then European-American Identity groups will have a much easier time of agreeing upon who is in and who is out of their group: the feds are validating Europeanism for them.

This will raise questions for the single most influential group in public discourse, Ashkenazi Jews. Are they Europeans or are they MENAs? The feds have suggested that Israeli Jewish immigrants will be expected to self-identify as MENAs, but there has been no hint about Ashkenazis, who have typically been in Europe for a couple of thousand years and are, according to recent genome studies, on average slightly more European than MENA by descent. But would self-identifying as Europeans be seen as invalidating their claim to the Holy Land in the Middle East?

Keep in mind that federal race and ethnicity categories work by self-identification. For example, the President of the United States identified himself on the 2010 Census as 100% black, despite being 50% white.

We don’t know what different individuals will choose to do. It could be that many politically conservative Ashkenazis will identify as MENA to uphold the Jewish claim to Israel. Or it could be that liberal Ashkenazis will identify as MENA in the name of fighting white privilege. Or vice-versa. Nobody really knows as of yet.

Jared Taylor very much wants Jews within his identity politics movement. As a certain immigrant media tycoon once remarked to a friend of mind in explaining why he subsidized neoconservative spokesmen, “To succeed in America, don’t need all the Jews in New York on your side, but you do need some.”

A European-American identity movement with heavy Jewish leadership might become an accepted player on the identity politics scene. On the other hand, if Ashkenazis overwhelmingly choose to go the MENA route as part of the general Flight from White, anti-Europeanism would likely become a default public prejudice of ambitious Americans.

The future is unwritten. The Obama Administration appears likely to make it more interesting.

 
• Tags: Flight from White 
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  1. I object to all these hyphenated-Americans.

    • Replies: @Ulysses
    Hear, hear!
    , @27 year old
    >I object to all these hyphenated-Americans

    You may not be interested in hyphenation, but hyphenation is interested in you.
    , @syonredux

    I object to all these hyphenated-Americans.
     
    So did Teddy Roosevelt:

    “The one absolutely certain way of bringing this nation to ruin, of preventing all possibility of its continuing to be a nation at all, would be to permit it to become a tangle of squabbling nationalities, an intricate knot of German-Americans, Irish-Americans, English- Americans, French-Americans, Scandinavian- Americans, or Italian-Americans, each preserving its separate nationality, each at heart feeling more sympathy with Europeans of that nationality than with the other citizens of the American Republic.”
    “The men who do not become Americans and nothing else are hyphenated Americans; and there ought to be no room for them in this country. The man who calls himself an American citizen and who yet shows by his actions that he is primarily the citizen of a foreign land, plays a thoroughly mischievous part in the life of our body politic. He has no place here; and the sooner he returns to the land to which he feels his real heart-allegiance, the better it will be for every good American.”
     
    http://reaganiterepublicanresistance.blogspot.com/2010/05/teddy-roosevelt-no-room-in-this-country.html
  2. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    “European-American” has been David Duke’s favored term for a while now. That’s the term he generally uses.

    The leader of the alt-right says that Ashkenazi Jews aren’t white, and suggests that he’s uncomfortable or offended by Ashkenazi Jews identifying as white:

    http://www.tabletmag.com/jewish-news-and-politics/218219/steve-bannon-alt-right

    How would the Jews fit into this racial breakdown? “Ashkenazi Jews are not white,” according to Spencer. “Every time I read about a Jew somewhere identifying as a white person, I cringe.”

    • Replies: @22pp22
    He is not the leader of the alt right.
    , @jhdhx
    So he doesn't consider Jews white but he considers his half Asian wife white?
    , @AndrewR
    I don't quite get the faux-outrage about what he said.

    How many Jews truly identify with whites and act in the interests of whites in general as opposed to the general interests of the tribe?

    Jews are at the vanguard of anti-White politics. It's clear many of them do not honestly identify as white.
  3. “Armenia is not, technically, in Europe. It lies in Asia.” I’m not sure there’s any “technically” about it, it’s just a matter of a convention that changes from time to time. Eurasia doesn’t have the sort of handy isthmus that lets you distinguish Africa from Eurasia naturally, or North from South America.

    Still, I have no argument with your classifying Armenia as Asian.

    Two questions.

    (i) Will you agree never to refer to Iceland being part of Europe? Please. It’s a mid-ocean island, for heaven’s sake.

    (ii) Will Israelis be classified as MENA? Other Jews?

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    The preliminaries so far have put Israelis definitely into MENA. No mention of Ashkenazis.

    Ashkenazis could choose to self-identify as MENA as part of the Flight from White.

    , @(((Owen)))
    Africa and Asia don't divide completely naturally. The Sinai could be—and has been—in either.

    But as you say, the Europe-Asia divide is pure social construct. It could move quite a lot and still make as much sense as ever.

    ---

    Including Jews as MENA would create incentives to re-create the Jewish quotas. It's much better to be included in the white category, so that's where the Jews and Jewish Israelis will end up. The only question is whether Arab Israelis count as MENA: Probably yes.

  4. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    Complaining about anti-white racism just makes you sound like a loser, but complaining about Europhobia sounds pretty scientific and academic.

    Sound to the ears of (socially and politically) programmed losers, you mean.

    I want to be a loser to them for ever.
    Anti-white racism is the most rampant real racism we have.

    And I think we both remember of a “loser” to losers who once coined “anti-Gentilism”; or don’t we, Sailer?

  5. Isn’t it more likely that the authorities will start using the word “white” with the two different definitions depending on the situation just to confuse everybody

  6. @dearieme
    "Armenia is not, technically, in Europe. It lies in Asia." I'm not sure there's any "technically" about it, it's just a matter of a convention that changes from time to time. Eurasia doesn't have the sort of handy isthmus that lets you distinguish Africa from Eurasia naturally, or North from South America.

    Still, I have no argument with your classifying Armenia as Asian.

    Two questions.

    (i) Will you agree never to refer to Iceland being part of Europe? Please. It's a mid-ocean island, for heaven's sake.

    (ii) Will Israelis be classified as MENA? Other Jews?

    The preliminaries so far have put Israelis definitely into MENA. No mention of Ashkenazis.

    Ashkenazis could choose to self-identify as MENA as part of the Flight from White.

    • Replies: @Cagey Beast
    Zionism itself was the original "flight from White". It was the decision that Jewish Emancipation wasn't working out for them, so they were to wave goodbye to Christendom forever. There are even photos of Chaim Weizmann and others wearing various sorts of Arab and Ottoman headdress back when they were taking their new Orientalism out for a spin.
    , @dearieme
    I know. How about separate classifications of Alpine, Nordic, Mediterranean, Dinaric, and East Baltic Europeans? That would be a step in an, ahem, interesting direction.
    , @syonredux

    Ashkenazis could choose to self-identify as MENA as part of the Flight from White.
     
    Curious to see how that would shape out with people who are part Jewish. For example, I have some relatives who are 25% Ashkenazi, 25% English-Scottish, 25% Polish, and 25% Italian....
    , @syonredux

    Ashkenazis could choose to self-identify as MENA as part of the Flight from White.
     
    And then there's the question of converts to Judaism....Would they acquire the status of naturalized MENAs?
  7. Could we make unmarried, university-educated White women into their own racial category? That would be fantastic.

    • Agree: AndrewR
    • Replies: @Je Suis Charlie Martel
    Already in their own little world...
    , @hhh
    Frankly I wonder if it will be better for white nationalist women to just branch into their own, I mean if there are a lot of gay male white nationalists, there should be such a thing as a lesbian white nationalist too right?
  8. This answers a question my Chinese American wife asked: “When did we stop being Oriental?”

  9. I can see the media using “European-American” in a respectful way… when whites are like a 20% minority. Think South Africa. That distinction is needed when whites are few enough not to be considered the norm.

    But hyphens are a bad idea in general. People should just refer to each other’s race/ethnicities directly. I never call another Asian an “Asian-American”, it just sounds stupid. Saying X-American gives too much credence to multiculturalism.

  10. This may be apocryphal, but anyway – Danny Thomas went to Groucho Marx and said, “You Jews at Hillcrest are just as bad as the gentiles. You discriminate just like they do.” Groucho said he’d think about it. A week later Groucho told Thomas that Hillcrest had decided to admit gentiles. Thomas said, “Great! Can I join?” Groucho said no. “If we’re going to admit gentiles, they should look like gentiles.”

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    There's another version of that joke where Danny Thomas is admitted as the first gentile at Hillcrest, Jack Benny says, you known maybe if we wanted to get credit for our tolerance, we should have picked a gentile who looks like a gentile.

    Or something.

  11. I wonder how American Arabs, particularly Palestinians, are going to feel about having to share their diversity points with Israelis…

  12. @Steve Sailer
    The preliminaries so far have put Israelis definitely into MENA. No mention of Ashkenazis.

    Ashkenazis could choose to self-identify as MENA as part of the Flight from White.

    Zionism itself was the original “flight from White”. It was the decision that Jewish Emancipation wasn’t working out for them, so they were to wave goodbye to Christendom forever. There are even photos of Chaim Weizmann and others wearing various sorts of Arab and Ottoman headdress back when they were taking their new Orientalism out for a spin.

    • Replies: @Opinionator
    Zionism was a reactionary movement against the Enlightenment, universalism, brotherhood of man (or of citizen), assimilation.

    Flight from White similarly represents a refusal to assimilate.
    , @syonredux

    Zionism itself was the original “flight from White”. It was the decision that Jewish Emancipation wasn’t working out for them, so they were to wave goodbye to Christendom forever. There are even photos of Chaim Weizmann and others wearing various sorts of Arab and Ottoman headdress back when they were taking their new Orientalism out for a spin.
     
    On the other hand, Louis Brandeis, in his letters, used to note how the Ashkenazi colonists in Palestine reminded him of the Puritan settlers in 17th century New England....
  13. Many issues around this.

    Jews will have to choose.
    Can a secular Jew whose family was in Germany for many generations reasonably identify as MENA? Maybe not, but…
    I know a Mexican-Ashkenazi mixed guy who’s been to Israel but doesn’t otherwise know much about his non-Mexican heritage. Any chance he would continue to identify as half my co-ethnic (ie, half-white) under the new system? Not much chance, I think.
    Ditto Chinese-Ashkenazi mixed. Once some Jews go in the MENA category, any Jew who isn’t self-consciously European-American will not self-identify as having any racial/ethnic connection to the US founding stock (vis-a-vis “whiteness”).

    “European” doesn’t mean the same thing to most people that it means to iSteve readers.
    When I hear “Euro-“, I associate the Rennaisance, Bach, Arthurian myths, Tuscany, Aquavit, the Left Bank, etc. But that is an sufferably “white”, prole, downscale view.
    When most non-“white” modern people hear “Euro”, they associate a break from the past, progressivism, cynicism, multi-culturalism, etc.
    Adopting a “European-American” identity will mean the Trojan horse importation of an identity antithetical to the interests of white Americans.

    This will only be more and more the case as modern Europe loses its actual whiteness. What will it mean to be “European-American” when US citizens travelling in Europe see black, white, brown, atheist, Muslim, Indian people?

    “White”=”majority”. Giving up this high ground by giving up “white”ness will be ceding what it means to be American to the Zero’th Amendment and BLM crowds. Even if whites are a minority, as long as there are “whites”, people will see a continuity between the Founding Fathers and some living group in modern America. Give up “white” and people will think “European-Americans” have as much in common with those strange long-ago pale, stale, male Fathers as Tariq and Tong down the street.

    • Replies: @Opinionator
    Jews will have to choose.

    No. They won't. Any rule that would require jews to choose, will never be allowed to come into effect.
    , @Anon 2
    Actually, at least a half of all Europeans have lived
    east of Berlin. A few names come to mind: Copernicus,
    Maria Curie, Chopin, Schopenhauer, Fahrenheit, Kant,
    Tolstoy, Dostoyevsky, Sikorsky, Mickiewicz, Pushkin, etc
  14. @Tom Scarlett
    This may be apocryphal, but anyway - Danny Thomas went to Groucho Marx and said, "You Jews at Hillcrest are just as bad as the gentiles. You discriminate just like they do." Groucho said he'd think about it. A week later Groucho told Thomas that Hillcrest had decided to admit gentiles. Thomas said, "Great! Can I join?" Groucho said no. "If we're going to admit gentiles, they should look like gentiles."

    There’s another version of that joke where Danny Thomas is admitted as the first gentile at Hillcrest, Jack Benny says, you known maybe if we wanted to get credit for our tolerance, we should have picked a gentile who looks like a gentile.

    Or something.

  15. Won’t work. A substantial number of Europeans now aren’t European. Or maybe they are. A lot of mayors of major European cities aren’t European. But they were born in Europe. So that makes them…

    Dunno

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    That was part of the motivation behind the use of various terms like Nordic, Aryan, Teuton, Anglo-Saxon, Celt, etc. by racialists and nationalists a century ago. To distinguish from state or political identities that included minorities.
    , @Bill B.

    Won’t work. A substantial number of Europeans now aren’t European. Or maybe they are. A lot of mayors of major European cities aren’t European. But they were born in Europe.
     
    I disagree. We are talking about how people think about themselves. As long as the category is heavily white loaded most non-whites will shun it like a flea-ridden bed. (IE only if they have to.)

    They will revert.
    , @dfordoom

    Won’t work. A substantial number of Europeans now aren’t European.
     
    Europe is just a geographical expression.
  16. Lawrence Murray coined the neologism “Anglo-American” to refer to white Americans in a more formal and respectful fashion. I quite like it, personally, though unfortunately it doesn’t seem to have caught on much.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    That doesn't work because it implies English heritage. There are plenty of American whites whose ancestors are not mainly British.
    , @SFG
    Germans, Russians, Italians, Poles...all white by any standard and definitely not Anglo. Heck, calling an Irishman 'Anglo' is an insult!
    , @dfordoom

    Lawrence Murray coined the neologism “Anglo-American” to refer to white Americans in a more formal and respectful fashion.
     
    Anglo-Celt enjoyed a bit of a vogue in Australia a few decades back.
  17. One detail that’s up in the air at present in the federal plans is whether Armenians and Georgians from Asia just south of the European border

    There’s long been an argument that Europe’s border is the west coast of the Caspian Sea, which puts Armenia and Georgia (and Azerbaijan) in Europe. Perhaps to emphasize that, Baku hosted the Eurovision song contest in 2012, and the European Games in 2015.

    • Replies: @dearieme
    Yeah, but Australia competes in the European Song Contest, Israeli football teams compete in the European competitions, and Mozambique is in the (British) Commonwealth. It's a mad world, my masters.

    But at least we can all agree that Iceland isn't in Europe, can't we? On tectonic grounds.
  18. Anon • Disclaimer says:

    Shouldn’t the term ‘American’ be rejected for citizen of United States.

    After all, Canada and Mexico are also part of North America. And there is Central America and South America.

    Who are arrogant ‘yanquis’ to hog the title of ‘American’, when Amerigo wasn’t even Anglo and had nothing to do with the founding of the US?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amerigo_Vespucci

    So, maybe ‘Americans’ should be called United-Statesmen or United Stateseans or US-er or USian. Or Uncle Samites.

    That would make it European-United-Statesmen, European-United-Stateseans, European USians or European-US-er, or European Uncle-Samites.

    Or USers. Like in TRON LEGACY. We are certainly USED by Globalism.

    • Replies: @dearieme
    "Amerigo wasn’t even Anglo": quite. But Scottish or Welsh perhaps.
    , @syonredux

    So, maybe ‘Americans’ should be called United-Statesmen or United Stateseans or US-er or USian. Or Uncle Samites.
     
    Eh. People refer to Britain/the UK as England all the time.Who cares that foreigners are upset when we call ourselves Americans?
    , @Philip Owen
    Amerigo is a myth sponsored by the colonial revolutionaries. The name is derived from Richard Ameryk (a corruption of Welsh Ap Meurig) who paid for the expedition of John Cabot who discovered America and named it after his sponsor. The promotion of Colombus as discoverer by the revolutionaries is an attempt to undermine British claims to the continent.

    The correct term for the colonial ruling class is Englishmen Gone Wrong.
  19. A person is only “White” when some other race is somewhere close by; in the same way that a person is only a “pedestrian” when a vehicle is around or could be around soon. I remember not being White but am more and more often White, even though I’m still in the same city I grew up in.

    Maybe that’s one reason why “White” is considered declassé? If you find yourself in a situation where you’re White, someone messed up but if you’re just happily European then everything’s still fine? People in Europe sure as hell resent finding out they’re now White without leaving home. It’s like suddenly finding out you’re a pedestrian because a car just hit you while you thought you were just someone walking around.

    • Replies: @David In TN
    The term "African-American" is used as if it refers to an Exalted Being. The term "whites" is used as if it refers to dirt.
  20. That then raises the question of what to do with Asian countries beyond Turkey like Armenia and Georgia that are outposts of Christendom.

    This is the crux of the whole issue. That is, increasingly, for various groups looking at the identity question from a variety of perspectives, it really boils down to Christendom (in the traditional, historical sense) vs The Others. Geography is relevant but secondary to this more fundamental distinction.

    • Replies: @Cagey Beast
    I think so too. What they call "the West" is just a shabby collection of liberal and libertine stuff that changes every few weeks. Christendom, on the other hand, is a civilization with eastern and western halves sharing common enemies.
    , @G Pinfold
    OK for eastern Europe, but it doesn't scale for Africa. They're pretty much all Christians south of Uganda.
  21. Problem with this is that the Merkel youth will increasingly make up Europe. The people in Europe will never accept that European means white (both the leftists and the non whites taking over). In America this will also create a problem that what does one call a non white from Europe ? This is already a problem for whites that come from South Africa and move to America (are they Africans ?), but there are not that many whites in Africa, but with Europe and its rapid demographic transformation this will cause much more confusion along with the PC problems.

    • Replies: @NickG
    This is already a problem for whites that come from South Africa and move to America (are they Africans ?),

    Yup, Charlize Theron, who is a multi generational South African, with more recent and deeper ties to Africa than Michelle Obama. This makes Charlize - without a shadow of doubt - a doubleplus African American.

  22. Just anecdotal, but an affordable housing property I was involved with in Arizona had to conduct a survey for the federal government in which one of the items residents were asked to indicate was whether they were white, Hispanic, black, or native American. I was somewhat surprised when over half of the residents with recognizably Spanish surnames chose “white.” Maybe it does have some cachet still…

    • Replies: @(((Owen)))
    The only people left in America for whom the white identity is still desirable are Latinxs and Asian women.

    Whiteness is still implicitly upscale to Latin Americans in Latin America and the cathedral has failed to extinguish that idea among Latinx people in the USA. They try with affirmative action jobs, preferential university admissions, special welfare for identity advocacy groups, and more. But the only ones are convinced are the very, very white Conquistador-Americans that identify as brown so they can take credit for leading the people that want to be white.

    Perceived leadership of a minority groups creates really powerful low responsibility jobs for educated minorities that are completely white on the inside. It's the grotesque tribute multiculturalism pays to Anglo culture.
    , @Jack D
    This is consistent with the way things work in Latin America. In most Latin countries, as long as you live in the Spanish speaking community and not as an Indian, you identify as "white" even if when you look in the mirror you are not exactly snowy white. This goes way back to the beginning when the Spanish male settlers took native wives but they would have raised their kids as being "Spanish" - speaking Spanish, going to church, wearing Western clothes, etc. If you go way back to the early roots of the European Jewish community it would have worked the same way, except that Jews, being Middle Eastern, were already more or less white looking so their 1/2 European offspring ended up looking less different from their fellow Europeans whereas people who are 1/2 Indian are usually recognizably not white. English settlers came over as families right from the beginning but in Latin America the immigrants were mainly single men (soldiers).
    , @Je Suis Omar Mateen
    'I was somewhat surprised when over half of the residents with recognizably Spanish surnames chose “white.” Maybe it does have some cachet still…'

    They choose 'Hispanic' when applying for college, a loan, or a job. Bank.

    The science of Evolution proves homo sapiens magically arose in Africa, so I always choose 'African-American.' You're not against Science, are you?
    , @Forbes
    Hispanic is a category invented by the US government for the 1970 census. It covers those with origins from 23 countries (IIRC). Is it possible that the residents, aside from their self-identity, were unfamiliar with the--to them--foreign term?
  23. @The Last Real Calvinist

    That then raises the question of what to do with Asian countries beyond Turkey like Armenia and Georgia that are outposts of Christendom.

     

    This is the crux of the whole issue. That is, increasingly, for various groups looking at the identity question from a variety of perspectives, it really boils down to Christendom (in the traditional, historical sense) vs The Others. Geography is relevant but secondary to this more fundamental distinction.

    I think so too. What they call “the West” is just a shabby collection of liberal and libertine stuff that changes every few weeks. Christendom, on the other hand, is a civilization with eastern and western halves sharing common enemies.

  24. @dearieme
    I object to all these hyphenated-Americans.

    Hear, hear!

  25. @anony-mouse
    Won't work. A substantial number of Europeans now aren't European. Or maybe they are. A lot of mayors of major European cities aren't European. But they were born in Europe. So that makes them...

    Dunno

    That was part of the motivation behind the use of various terms like Nordic, Aryan, Teuton, Anglo-Saxon, Celt, etc. by racialists and nationalists a century ago. To distinguish from state or political identities that included minorities.

  26. If you do an image search for “Europeans only” you’ll get photos of park benches and railway platforms from apartheid South Africa marked “Whites only” in brusque Afrikaans and “Europeans only” in the more genteel English.

  27. @dearieme
    I object to all these hyphenated-Americans.

    >I object to all these hyphenated-Americans

    You may not be interested in hyphenation, but hyphenation is interested in you.

  28. But anyway, I don’t want to be “White” or “European-American”. I’m American. Everyone else is just visiting.

    • Replies: @(((Owen)))
    Identifying as ethnically 'American' was the top polling indicator of voting for Trump in 2016.

    I'd add just that American blacks and Native Americans aren't just visiting. Neither is (((somebody else))), depending on how you define white.
    , @Desiderius

    But anyway, I don’t want to be “White” or “European-American”. I’m American.
     
    Seems to be working for Trump.

    There was a period there where UMC moms were hoping their babies would grow up to rule the world, or at least run a prestigious NGO or branch office in Hong Kong or somesuch, so they elected school boards and sent their kids to colleges who promised to play down the sort of jingoism that might rub foreign underlings the wrong way.

    Turns out the rootless cosmopolitanism they ended up with is worse.

    Now that the wrong track numbers are up, today's moms are starting to re-adjust their sights on more realistic goals where a healthy dose of patriotism could come in handy. American could be making a comeback.

    , @ben tillman

    But anyway, I don’t want to be “White” or “European-American”. I’m American. Everyone else is just visiting.
     
    Last time I did a jury trial, I remember reviewing the jurors' questionnaires, about 60 or 70 of them. This is an overwhelmingly white county in Texas, and the white jurors gave various answers for their race. Most said "White", Four or five said "Anglo", two or three said "American", and my favorite response came from Juror No. 1, who wrote, "White American". Made me hungry for a cheesesteak!
  29. I’ve been calling myself European-American for a few years now, and I have commented in the past here in advocacy for this term. I don’t see what the big deal is. I never thought of it as “classy,” just true.

    I don’t like being forced into a box any more than anybody else here, but this is what has happened to us in our own country. You see, I also consider the United States of America to be a European-American nation. It’s part of the European diaspora, if you will. This is obvious, and it’s only changed away from that centuries-long fact in my lifetime — in large part because of the manipulations of non-European-Americans who now salivate as we shrink.

    One bad part of having an official category like this is said shrinkage. This will inevitably make us seem smaller and less influential in our own country.

    No doubt this will be used against us. No doubt that is the whole idea.

    Steve makes a very useful point: We will better be able to advocate for ourselves openly, to publicly express our pride, to form groups, and to insist our racial contributions be appreciated. We will have the status of a minority. This is bittersweet. Mostly bitter, as I am.

    • Replies: @BenKenobi
    I've come to the conclusion that the reason I am comfortable with a Pan-White identity is that I'm a Canadian mutt. My 8 great-grandparents were from at least 6 different countries in Europe before coming to Canada. I have no single lineage. To call myself "Irish" or "French" or "Ukrainian" or "Sicilian" would be disingenuous.

    And now "Canadian" is largely meaningless. A subject of the Commonwealth? Even more meaningless.

    However -- White. Christendom. These terms still have meaning.

    In the end, it doesn't matter if "European-American" freaks out the squares less than "White", our enemies will still call us "Nazis."
  30. My paternal ancestor knocked the dirt of Europe off his shoes nearly 400 years ago, nearly 1000 years ago if you believe the Brits when they that they are not part of Europe. I am American, not European.

    • Replies: @dearieme
    Only Englishmen think they are not part of Europe. Scots consider themselves European. This distinction is far older than the EU, Scottish devolution, and other here-today-and-gone-tomorrow political whims.
  31. Others have said that people from Europe see themselves as ethnics first, rather than White (I prefer uppercase, since we extend the courtesy to others as well). I talk a lot of politics with friends and on the job, and I always find myself hesitating when it comes to use the word White, even in an American context, whereas no one blinks twice when I say Black. So I end up referring to European-Americans or Euro-Americans, even though I’m with Teddy Roosevelt when it comes to hyphens (which have started to crop up in my country as well). Maybe I internalized the mainstream American disregard for White identity politics without meaning to, or the hesitancy of people in a PC culture to speak of Whites as victim groups.

    • Replies: @Jefferson
    "Others have said that people from Europe see themselves as ethnics first, rather than White"

    Makes sense that there is no pan-White identity in Europe because Europeans are not all united by one common language.

    A pan-White identity would only have any chance of working in New World countries like Australia and The United States for example, where the vast majority of Whites are united by 1 common language.
  32. You’re right Steve, to most educated whites around the world, the word “white” in a US context now has a low-class prole vibe. “White American” has associations with obesity, lack of education, pick up trucks, gun culture, neoconservative foreign policy etc. “European-American” gives off a New England vibe of Harvard, Hamptons, Manhattan, Continental Delis and America’s Cup.

  33. You know, I’m getting pretty fed up with all this nonwhite racial categorizing stuff. All of it exists for one reason and one reason only: to be able to legally discriminate against white people like me and to screw white people like me out of both private and public sector jobs.

    All of this started with affirmative action and it will never, ever end until whites coalesce politically and put an end to it. The Constitution requires “equal protection of the laws.” That’s good enough for me. The government has no business creating ANY racial categories, for the Census or for any other reason. If they insist on doing it, then I will insist that MY race be the one getting the preferential treatment.

  34. So now we’re going to be called non-MENA non-Hispanic whites.

    • Replies: @hhsh
    So is Alexa Chung white and European? So may look white but she is almost half Chinese by ancestry, now you may make a plausible case around Kate beckinsale or todd palin being white and European since they are 90 percent European genetically, but not Alexa Chung, and her brother actually looks Eurasian.
  35. Welp, looks like it’s time to get that DNA test I’ve been putting off to see if I have any plausible claim to some kind of gubmint-favored ethnicity…

  36. @Cagey Beast
    Zionism itself was the original "flight from White". It was the decision that Jewish Emancipation wasn't working out for them, so they were to wave goodbye to Christendom forever. There are even photos of Chaim Weizmann and others wearing various sorts of Arab and Ottoman headdress back when they were taking their new Orientalism out for a spin.

    Zionism was a reactionary movement against the Enlightenment, universalism, brotherhood of man (or of citizen), assimilation.

    Flight from White similarly represents a refusal to assimilate.

    • Replies: @Cagey Beast
    Well I'm not much in favour of Enlightenment universalism or forced assimilation and that's why I think countries should be especially stingy when it comes to giving citizenship to people. The 18th and 19th century liberal experiment freed the serfs and gave full civil rights to Protestants in Catholic countries and to Catholics in Protestant ones but probably made a mistake with Jewish Emancipation. I agree with the Duke of Wellington and others on that. We're now onto another era in any case. Now we're having this conversation on Whiteness which, only in part, is about where Jews fit in all this.
  37. @Chrisnonymous
    Many issues around this.

    Jews will have to choose.
    Can a secular Jew whose family was in Germany for many generations reasonably identify as MENA? Maybe not, but...
    I know a Mexican-Ashkenazi mixed guy who's been to Israel but doesn't otherwise know much about his non-Mexican heritage. Any chance he would continue to identify as half my co-ethnic (ie, half-white) under the new system? Not much chance, I think.
    Ditto Chinese-Ashkenazi mixed. Once some Jews go in the MENA category, any Jew who isn't self-consciously European-American will not self-identify as having any racial/ethnic connection to the US founding stock (vis-a-vis "whiteness").

    "European" doesn't mean the same thing to most people that it means to iSteve readers.
    When I hear "Euro-", I associate the Rennaisance, Bach, Arthurian myths, Tuscany, Aquavit, the Left Bank, etc. But that is an sufferably "white", prole, downscale view.
    When most non-"white" modern people hear "Euro", they associate a break from the past, progressivism, cynicism, multi-culturalism, etc.
    Adopting a "European-American" identity will mean the Trojan horse importation of an identity antithetical to the interests of white Americans.

    This will only be more and more the case as modern Europe loses its actual whiteness. What will it mean to be "European-American" when US citizens travelling in Europe see black, white, brown, atheist, Muslim, Indian people?

    "White"="majority". Giving up this high ground by giving up "white"ness will be ceding what it means to be American to the Zero'th Amendment and BLM crowds. Even if whites are a minority, as long as there are "whites", people will see a continuity between the Founding Fathers and some living group in modern America. Give up "white" and people will think "European-Americans" have as much in common with those strange long-ago pale, stale, male Fathers as Tariq and Tong down the street.

    Jews will have to choose.

    No. They won’t. Any rule that would require jews to choose, will never be allowed to come into effect.

    • Replies: @Jenner Ickham Errican

    Jews will have to choose.
     

    No. They won’t.
     
    Officially, maybe not. Practically speaking, well… the passage of time has a way of turning a non-decision into a decision. What’s that Howard Zinn quote?

    “You can’t be neutral on a moving train.”
  38. @Cagey Beast
    Could we make unmarried, university-educated White women into their own racial category? That would be fantastic.

    Already in their own little world…

    • Replies: @Cagey Beast
    Yes, they're in their own little world that's apparently absolutely horrible and it's all the fault of White men and no one else, including themselves.
  39. @Anonymous
    "European-American" has been David Duke's favored term for a while now. That's the term he generally uses.

    The leader of the alt-right says that Ashkenazi Jews aren't white, and suggests that he's uncomfortable or offended by Ashkenazi Jews identifying as white:

    http://www.tabletmag.com/jewish-news-and-politics/218219/steve-bannon-alt-right

    How would the Jews fit into this racial breakdown? “Ashkenazi Jews are not white,” according to Spencer. “Every time I read about a Jew somewhere identifying as a white person, I cringe.”
     

    He is not the leader of the alt right.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    https://twitter.com/ChateauEmissary/status/806935802580062208
    , @SFG
    There isn't one, really. It's way too diffuse and (ironically) diverse (intellectually).
  40. @Opinionator
    Zionism was a reactionary movement against the Enlightenment, universalism, brotherhood of man (or of citizen), assimilation.

    Flight from White similarly represents a refusal to assimilate.

    Well I’m not much in favour of Enlightenment universalism or forced assimilation and that’s why I think countries should be especially stingy when it comes to giving citizenship to people. The 18th and 19th century liberal experiment freed the serfs and gave full civil rights to Protestants in Catholic countries and to Catholics in Protestant ones but probably made a mistake with Jewish Emancipation. I agree with the Duke of Wellington and others on that. We’re now onto another era in any case. Now we’re having this conversation on Whiteness which, only in part, is about where Jews fit in all this.

  41. @Je Suis Charlie Martel
    Already in their own little world...

    Yes, they’re in their own little world that’s apparently absolutely horrible and it’s all the fault of White men and no one else, including themselves.

  42. Anon • Disclaimer says:

    http://reason.com/blog/2016/12/09/leftist-students-shouted-fck-you-bitch-a

    Some identities are rooted, cultural, and have long history.

    Some have been created recently. Some are downright ephemeral, more like mental illness or delusions than true identities.

    Trannies are esp ridiculous because they make a mockery of beauty.

    Few women are truly beautiful, few men are very handsome.

    But trannies, oftentimes fat ugly old men, want to look like divas. They dress up as glam girls, but it’s like a clownish mockery and parody of beauty. Don’t they know they are tarring and lampooning what they want to be? When a man tries to look like a woman, it’s not a tribute to or reverence of female beauty. It is a ludicrous distortion of what female beauty is.

    It’s especially jarring because lots of trannies aren’t content to merely be ‘women’. They want to be glamorous women. It’s not like some fat slob trying to be Roseanna Barr. It’s his delusional desire to be Claudia Cardinale when even Barr looks better than their attempt at ‘womanhood’.

    And when women try to be men? It’s a joke on manhood. It turns manhood into some stunt with hormones and fake appendages. BOYS DON’T CRY was pukeville. I felt no sympathy for the creep heroine who pretended to be a ‘he’.

  43. Greek for white is Aspro.

    Go with Asproans.

    But that sounds ‘gay’, like ass-pro. But then, it’s Greek.

  44. @Steve Sailer
    The preliminaries so far have put Israelis definitely into MENA. No mention of Ashkenazis.

    Ashkenazis could choose to self-identify as MENA as part of the Flight from White.

    I know. How about separate classifications of Alpine, Nordic, Mediterranean, Dinaric, and East Baltic Europeans? That would be a step in an, ahem, interesting direction.

    • Replies: @another fred
    Down in Latin America they refer to us as norteños and sometimes they use that (in Chile, e.g.) to refer their own countrymen extracted from that region NW of the Hajnal line. I like that term as it encompasses 100% of my ancestry.

    No, they don't always "smile when they say that," but that's ok with me - can't please them all.

  45. @dearieme
    "Armenia is not, technically, in Europe. It lies in Asia." I'm not sure there's any "technically" about it, it's just a matter of a convention that changes from time to time. Eurasia doesn't have the sort of handy isthmus that lets you distinguish Africa from Eurasia naturally, or North from South America.

    Still, I have no argument with your classifying Armenia as Asian.

    Two questions.

    (i) Will you agree never to refer to Iceland being part of Europe? Please. It's a mid-ocean island, for heaven's sake.

    (ii) Will Israelis be classified as MENA? Other Jews?

    Africa and Asia don’t divide completely naturally. The Sinai could be—and has been—in either.

    But as you say, the Europe-Asia divide is pure social construct. It could move quite a lot and still make as much sense as ever.

    Including Jews as MENA would create incentives to re-create the Jewish quotas. It’s much better to be included in the white category, so that’s where the Jews and Jewish Israelis will end up. The only question is whether Arab Israelis count as MENA: Probably yes.

    • Replies: @SFG
    Here's the thing, if Arabs have to compete with Jews for the MENA slots, they are going to have a hard time getting in--Jews have higher IQs and much, much better connections. So they are going to complain about the 'white privilege' Jews taking all their slots.
    , @Santoculto
    The jewish affirmative action is to hide within ''white'' category, what Unz showed for us, ;)

    So if most jewish-amurricans were labelled as MENA, we will see american universities dominated by ''arabs'', ;) FBI and Fox nightmare.

    ''Jews', shamefully, use their own over-representation in the american universities to accuse ''white'' supremacy/dominance in the academia...

    As they shift from them the growing social consciousness of "nonwhite" about privileged group / elite, to the "whites."

  46. @Dave Pinsen

    One detail that’s up in the air at present in the federal plans is whether Armenians and Georgians from Asia just south of the European border
     
    There's long been an argument that Europe's border is the west coast of the Caspian Sea, which puts Armenia and Georgia (and Azerbaijan) in Europe. Perhaps to emphasize that, Baku hosted the Eurovision song contest in 2012, and the European Games in 2015.

    Yeah, but Australia competes in the European Song Contest, Israeli football teams compete in the European competitions, and Mozambique is in the (British) Commonwealth. It’s a mad world, my masters.

    But at least we can all agree that Iceland isn’t in Europe, can’t we? On tectonic grounds.

  47. @Anon
    Shouldn't the term 'American' be rejected for citizen of United States.

    After all, Canada and Mexico are also part of North America. And there is Central America and South America.

    Who are arrogant 'yanquis' to hog the title of 'American', when Amerigo wasn't even Anglo and had nothing to do with the founding of the US?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amerigo_Vespucci

    So, maybe 'Americans' should be called United-Statesmen or United Stateseans or US-er or USian. Or Uncle Samites.

    That would make it European-United-Statesmen, European-United-Stateseans, European USians or European-US-er, or European Uncle-Samites.

    Or USers. Like in TRON LEGACY. We are certainly USED by Globalism.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DkTb7Pe2MtY

    “Amerigo wasn’t even Anglo”: quite. But Scottish or Welsh perhaps.

    • Replies: @Philip Owen
    See my comment about Richard Ameryk.

    Amerigo Vespucci was an Italian mapmaker who first mapped large parts of South America in particular. The US colonies claim that the two continents were named after him as his name was on the maps.
  48. @Chris Mallory
    My paternal ancestor knocked the dirt of Europe off his shoes nearly 400 years ago, nearly 1000 years ago if you believe the Brits when they that they are not part of Europe. I am American, not European.

    Only Englishmen think they are not part of Europe. Scots consider themselves European. This distinction is far older than the EU, Scottish devolution, and other here-today-and-gone-tomorrow political whims.

  49. Zionism was in no way a Flight from White. It was if anything an embrace of Whiteness, just a Jewish one. Zionism was founded in the aftermath of the Dreyfuss Affair, when it became clear that Catholic France would not accept Jews, and neither would Hapsburg Catholic Austria, nor Orthodox Russia. That all places would at best allow Jews to be semi-serfs. It was as European as the Easter Rising, with the same aims. European nationalism.

    Golda Meir and Theodore Herzl and Ariel Sharon would have been shocked to be considered non-White.

    Spencer seems intent on merely trolling; that’s not IMHO a smart move. Jews have traditionally been considered White: Judah P. Benjamin, and Disraeli come to mind. Jerry Seinfeld is not White? Patton Oswalt? Howard Stern? Sarah Michelle Gellar is not White? [Freddy Prinze Jr. is … White. Just look at him.]

    That’s my taxonomy. Looks White, is White. And I’m proud to be White. Indeed, we ought to claim it as being bad, dangerous, volatile, and potentially violent if provoked. In short, sexy chick bait. Nobody wants to be Casper Milquetoast. Tony Soprano on the other hand …

    Or Walter White. The real actor behind him may be a clueless liberal, but the character shook many a woman’s desire.

    • Replies: @Mr. Anon
    But is "Whiskey" - that scots-irishman extrordinaire - actually scottish? Or even Irish? Especially given that he never talks about Scotland, or Ireland, or - indeed - even knows what the term "scots-irish" even means?
    , @Amasius
    Is Jennifer Beals White? Looks pretty White. Is Tommy Chong White? Looks pretty White.

    I just can't believe we're going to simply wing it and go by looks alone. What about reality? Isn't this a detail-oriented community?
    , @a reader
    That all places would at best allow Jews to be semi-serfs.

    As could testify Dreyfus' (an artillery officer) fellow contemporaries Sarah Bernhardt, Emile Durkheim, Daniel Halevy, or Marcel Proust.
  50. Clearly I should comment on this. Good to be recognized as classy!

    All the classifications are giving me a headache, but here are some scattered thoughts:

    In France, ethnic or racial classifications are illegal. So that settles that!

    (Actually, it might only be ethnic or racial statistics that are illegal. No counting!)

    I’m still baffled by the American classification “Hispanic”. Are Spanish people Hispanic? Are they white? Are Italians Italic? Don’t tell me, I don’t care.

    I was very surprised when a Polish-French professor adamantly told me Russians are not European.

    In East Asia, people call us foreigners, or Westerners. Sometimes just American. I don’t think “white” is used much.

    If we stick to light and dark, yellows and whites are equally light, right?

  51. OT,

    but apparently the media — which has a serious interest in presenting both sides of political issues (just ask them!) — can’t seem to find any columnists who will actually support Trump on a regular basis:

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/style/mainstream-media-puts-out-the-call-for-pro-trump-columnists/2016/12/09/2153fdd2-bca7-11e6-94ac-3d324840106c_story.html

    Oh, they are so sincere, it could make you choke.

    Of course, not only is there our fine host Steve, but there’s Ann Coulter and Pat Buchanan. But these, I guess, aren’t the right sort of columnist, for some reason. Maybe it’s because they all keep talking about a word whose first letter is “I” and whose last letter is “mmigration”?

  52. @Arclight
    Just anecdotal, but an affordable housing property I was involved with in Arizona had to conduct a survey for the federal government in which one of the items residents were asked to indicate was whether they were white, Hispanic, black, or native American. I was somewhat surprised when over half of the residents with recognizably Spanish surnames chose "white." Maybe it does have some cachet still...

    The only people left in America for whom the white identity is still desirable are Latinxs and Asian women.

    Whiteness is still implicitly upscale to Latin Americans in Latin America and the cathedral has failed to extinguish that idea among Latinx people in the USA. They try with affirmative action jobs, preferential university admissions, special welfare for identity advocacy groups, and more. But the only ones are convinced are the very, very white Conquistador-Americans that identify as brown so they can take credit for leading the people that want to be white.

    Perceived leadership of a minority groups creates really powerful low responsibility jobs for educated minorities that are completely white on the inside. It’s the grotesque tribute multiculturalism pays to Anglo culture.

    • Replies: @syonredux

    The only people left in America for whom the white identity is still desirable are Latinxs and Asian women.

    Whiteness is still implicitly upscale to Latin Americans in Latin America and the cathedral has failed to extinguish that idea among Latinx people in the USA.
     
    Not based on the Latinx academics that I know. They love to talk about their glorious Mestizo heritage, etc.
    , @Clyde
    Very perceptive and original. Though Jorge Ramos as the Mestizos_in_America's Moses makes me laugh at the disconnect. But then we have a half-Kenyan/zero slave blood/ mulatto that American blacks have taken as their leader. They registered to vote and turned out in droves to vote Obama but turned their backs on non-charismatic, old white lady Hillary.
  53. @27 year old
    But anyway, I don't want to be "White" or "European-American". I'm American. Everyone else is just visiting.

    Identifying as ethnically ‘American’ was the top polling indicator of voting for Trump in 2016.

    I’d add just that American blacks and Native Americans aren’t just visiting. Neither is (((somebody else))), depending on how you define white.

  54. @dearieme
    I object to all these hyphenated-Americans.

    I object to all these hyphenated-Americans.

    So did Teddy Roosevelt:

    “The one absolutely certain way of bringing this nation to ruin, of preventing all possibility of its continuing to be a nation at all, would be to permit it to become a tangle of squabbling nationalities, an intricate knot of German-Americans, Irish-Americans, English- Americans, French-Americans, Scandinavian- Americans, or Italian-Americans, each preserving its separate nationality, each at heart feeling more sympathy with Europeans of that nationality than with the other citizens of the American Republic.”
    “The men who do not become Americans and nothing else are hyphenated Americans; and there ought to be no room for them in this country. The man who calls himself an American citizen and who yet shows by his actions that he is primarily the citizen of a foreign land, plays a thoroughly mischievous part in the life of our body politic. He has no place here; and the sooner he returns to the land to which he feels his real heart-allegiance, the better it will be for every good American.”

    http://reaganiterepublicanresistance.blogspot.com/2010/05/teddy-roosevelt-no-room-in-this-country.html

    • Replies: @Diversity Heretic
    How low we have sunk from the vigorous nationalist patriotism of Theodore Roosevelt. If a politican said something along those lines today, he would probably be disqualified not only from public office, but probably from paid employment.
  55. @(((Owen)))
    The only people left in America for whom the white identity is still desirable are Latinxs and Asian women.

    Whiteness is still implicitly upscale to Latin Americans in Latin America and the cathedral has failed to extinguish that idea among Latinx people in the USA. They try with affirmative action jobs, preferential university admissions, special welfare for identity advocacy groups, and more. But the only ones are convinced are the very, very white Conquistador-Americans that identify as brown so they can take credit for leading the people that want to be white.

    Perceived leadership of a minority groups creates really powerful low responsibility jobs for educated minorities that are completely white on the inside. It's the grotesque tribute multiculturalism pays to Anglo culture.

    The only people left in America for whom the white identity is still desirable are Latinxs and Asian women.

    Whiteness is still implicitly upscale to Latin Americans in Latin America and the cathedral has failed to extinguish that idea among Latinx people in the USA.

    Not based on the Latinx academics that I know. They love to talk about their glorious Mestizo heritage, etc.

    • Replies: @(((Owen)))

    Not based on the Latinx academics that I know. They love to talk about their glorious Mestizo heritage, etc.
     
    The more lily white a Conquistador-American is, the more he talks about his deeply powerful Indian blood and Aztec heritage and Spanish culture and so on with more pure garbage.

    The top reserved racial identity jobs in academe, government, and big corporate diversity departments are the only bribes big enough to keep a class of Hispanics non-white that could pass as white. The idea is that creating a new prestigious identity will allow the cathedral to divide us all on ethnic grounds and therefore easily to rule us all.

    But the working Hispanic families still stubbornly aren't buying into it. They have five centuries of experience loving whiteness much more than American whites do.
  56. @Anon
    Shouldn't the term 'American' be rejected for citizen of United States.

    After all, Canada and Mexico are also part of North America. And there is Central America and South America.

    Who are arrogant 'yanquis' to hog the title of 'American', when Amerigo wasn't even Anglo and had nothing to do with the founding of the US?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amerigo_Vespucci

    So, maybe 'Americans' should be called United-Statesmen or United Stateseans or US-er or USian. Or Uncle Samites.

    That would make it European-United-Statesmen, European-United-Stateseans, European USians or European-US-er, or European Uncle-Samites.

    Or USers. Like in TRON LEGACY. We are certainly USED by Globalism.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DkTb7Pe2MtY

    So, maybe ‘Americans’ should be called United-Statesmen or United Stateseans or US-er or USian. Or Uncle Samites.

    Eh. People refer to Britain/the UK as England all the time.Who cares that foreigners are upset when we call ourselves Americans?

    • Replies: @Bill B.
    Um... I care. Mother (very) Welsh; father (very) English.

    I don't feel comfortable saying I am one or the other. I say British normally but yes I don't throw a fit if someone says English.

    In the future who knows: I have been toying with the idea of going alt-Welsh (and I will feel as if I had cut off an arm).
  57. Are we going to use the “one drop” rule?

  58. @22pp22
    He is not the leader of the alt right.
    • Replies: @syonredux
    Of course, that fellow's in no position to play Pope Leo III....
  59. @22pp22
    He is not the leader of the alt right.

    There isn’t one, really. It’s way too diffuse and (ironically) diverse (intellectually).

  60. @Cagey Beast
    Zionism itself was the original "flight from White". It was the decision that Jewish Emancipation wasn't working out for them, so they were to wave goodbye to Christendom forever. There are even photos of Chaim Weizmann and others wearing various sorts of Arab and Ottoman headdress back when they were taking their new Orientalism out for a spin.

    Zionism itself was the original “flight from White”. It was the decision that Jewish Emancipation wasn’t working out for them, so they were to wave goodbye to Christendom forever. There are even photos of Chaim Weizmann and others wearing various sorts of Arab and Ottoman headdress back when they were taking their new Orientalism out for a spin.

    On the other hand, Louis Brandeis, in his letters, used to note how the Ashkenazi colonists in Palestine reminded him of the Puritan settlers in 17th century New England….

  61. anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    Forget about consistency and fixed dictionary definitions. The alt-right way is to use whatever term gives us the edge at any given moment and to shape the meaning of terms in our favor. That’s what other groups were doing all along.

    The left shifted from anti-racist to more honest anti-white rhetoric some years ago. We now see push-back from colorblind, individualist, liberal whites, who previously thought that they were in good standing and had a comfortable place in a multiracial utopia. These non-prole people increasingly identify as white because they are forced to do so.

    The divisive, ideological distinction between Americans and Europeans is declining. Breitbart, the #1 conservative news source does not bash Europe wholesale, takes an interest in european events and sides with the interests of indigenous Europeans. That’s a stark difference to the proposition-nation, american exceptionalism, “America f*ck yeah” narrative of older conservative outlets.

    Remember that even Mark Steyn and Christopher Caldwell argued that muslim immigration only causes problems in Europe because of lack of Christianity and free market values. “America alone” would do fine because of its magic exceptionalist powers.

    Liberal SWPLs no longer enthusiastically equate Europeans with all things good and progressive. When was the last time Matt Yqlesias praised scandinavian superiority?

    Although anti-americanism is still strong among many european ethno-nationalists, the younger, more Internet savvy crowd knows better. News spreads that the US government and US foreign policy is not run by cowboys and that the deplorables on both continents have much in common.

    The current trajectory goes towards the interchangeable use of European and white, both in Europe and the USA.

    Contrarian

    • Replies: @Cagey Beast

    .... the #1 conservative news source does not bash Europe wholesale, takes an interest in European events and sides with the interests of indigenous Europeans. That’s a stark difference to the proposition-nation, American exceptionalism, “America f*ck yeah” narrative of older conservative outlets.
     
    That is one of the interesting changes over the last year or so. Even here in the comments at Steve's blog, I've noticed a sharp drop in American schadenfreude after the long string of terror attacks in Europe. It's a welcome change.
    , @Mr. Anon
    "The divisive, ideological distinction between Americans and Europeans is declining. Breitbart, the #1 conservative news source does not bash Europe wholesale, takes an interest in european events and sides with the interests of indigenous Europeans. That’s a stark difference to the proposition-nation, american exceptionalism, “America f*ck yeah” narrative of older conservative outlets."

    Yes, that's true. The anti-europeanism that was fashionable in neo-con dominated media outlets in the oughts was one of the things that turned me away from Conservatism Inc. (Freedom Fries! - what bulls**t). That outlook can now be found as much on the Democratic side now, as on the Republican, as nationalism becomes a larger force in european politics.

    And of course, it's especially true about Russia, against which the establishment is stirring up animosity and openly referring to as "our adversary"? Huh? I don't consider Russia to be "my adversary". I consider it to be far less of an adversary of me than I do any number of hostile political forces in my own country.
    , @Bill B.

    Remember that even Mark Steyn and Christopher Caldwell argued that muslim immigration only causes problems in Europe because of lack of Christianity and free market values.
     
    Otherwise known as the "Daniel Hannan problem".
  62. @(((Owen)))
    Africa and Asia don't divide completely naturally. The Sinai could be—and has been—in either.

    But as you say, the Europe-Asia divide is pure social construct. It could move quite a lot and still make as much sense as ever.

    ---

    Including Jews as MENA would create incentives to re-create the Jewish quotas. It's much better to be included in the white category, so that's where the Jews and Jewish Israelis will end up. The only question is whether Arab Israelis count as MENA: Probably yes.

    Here’s the thing, if Arabs have to compete with Jews for the MENA slots, they are going to have a hard time getting in–Jews have higher IQs and much, much better connections. So they are going to complain about the ‘white privilege’ Jews taking all their slots.

  63. @Anonymous
    https://twitter.com/ChateauEmissary/status/806935802580062208

    Of course, that fellow’s in no position to play Pope Leo III….

  64. @syonredux

    The only people left in America for whom the white identity is still desirable are Latinxs and Asian women.

    Whiteness is still implicitly upscale to Latin Americans in Latin America and the cathedral has failed to extinguish that idea among Latinx people in the USA.
     
    Not based on the Latinx academics that I know. They love to talk about their glorious Mestizo heritage, etc.

    Not based on the Latinx academics that I know. They love to talk about their glorious Mestizo heritage, etc.

    The more lily white a Conquistador-American is, the more he talks about his deeply powerful Indian blood and Aztec heritage and Spanish culture and so on with more pure garbage.

    The top reserved racial identity jobs in academe, government, and big corporate diversity departments are the only bribes big enough to keep a class of Hispanics non-white that could pass as white. The idea is that creating a new prestigious identity will allow the cathedral to divide us all on ethnic grounds and therefore easily to rule us all.

    But the working Hispanic families still stubbornly aren’t buying into it. They have five centuries of experience loving whiteness much more than American whites do.

    • Replies: @syonredux

    The more lily white a Conquistador-American is, the more he talks about his deeply powerful Indian blood and Aztec heritage and Spanish culture and so on with more pure garbage.
     
    Indeed, the cult of the "Cosmic Race" is permeated with hypocrisy...

    But the working Hispanic families still stubbornly aren’t buying into it. They have five centuries of experience loving whiteness much more than American whites do.
     
    Dunno. I have friends who tell me about how their White Anglo daughters are mocked at school by Mestizas. Their favored insults include such pleasantries as "White ho,"" gabacha scum," etc.
  65. “But I think it’s good to have some kind of minority status, and if that means that we’ve got to get together with others from the same region, I think there’s some good that can come of that.”

    Back in the old days, people wanted to be classified as White, because being White brought a host of social and legal advantages.Nowadays, however, people want to be classified as non-White, because being non-White brings a host of legal and social advantages (particularly when you are White).

    If anyone needed proof that America is not a White Supremacist country, there it is.

    • Replies: @Desiderius

    If anyone needed proof that America is not a White Supremacist country, there it is.
     
    It's still in practice a SWPL-supremacist country in many walks of life.

    Many of those who complain about white privilege are in fact complaining about the same people we call "the elite," and for similar reasons.
  66. @anonymous
    Forget about consistency and fixed dictionary definitions. The alt-right way is to use whatever term gives us the edge at any given moment and to shape the meaning of terms in our favor. That's what other groups were doing all along.

    The left shifted from anti-racist to more honest anti-white rhetoric some years ago. We now see push-back from colorblind, individualist, liberal whites, who previously thought that they were in good standing and had a comfortable place in a multiracial utopia. These non-prole people increasingly identify as white because they are forced to do so.

    The divisive, ideological distinction between Americans and Europeans is declining. Breitbart, the #1 conservative news source does not bash Europe wholesale, takes an interest in european events and sides with the interests of indigenous Europeans. That's a stark difference to the proposition-nation, american exceptionalism, "America f*ck yeah" narrative of older conservative outlets.

    Remember that even Mark Steyn and Christopher Caldwell argued that muslim immigration only causes problems in Europe because of lack of Christianity and free market values. "America alone" would do fine because of its magic exceptionalist powers.

    Liberal SWPLs no longer enthusiastically equate Europeans with all things good and progressive. When was the last time Matt Yqlesias praised scandinavian superiority?

    Although anti-americanism is still strong among many european ethno-nationalists, the younger, more Internet savvy crowd knows better. News spreads that the US government and US foreign policy is not run by cowboys and that the deplorables on both continents have much in common.

    The current trajectory goes towards the interchangeable use of European and white, both in Europe and the USA.
    -
    Contrarian

    …. the #1 conservative news source does not bash Europe wholesale, takes an interest in European events and sides with the interests of indigenous Europeans. That’s a stark difference to the proposition-nation, American exceptionalism, “America f*ck yeah” narrative of older conservative outlets.

    That is one of the interesting changes over the last year or so. Even here in the comments at Steve’s blog, I’ve noticed a sharp drop in American schadenfreude after the long string of terror attacks in Europe. It’s a welcome change.

  67. @27 year old
    But anyway, I don't want to be "White" or "European-American". I'm American. Everyone else is just visiting.

    But anyway, I don’t want to be “White” or “European-American”. I’m American.

    Seems to be working for Trump.

    There was a period there where UMC moms were hoping their babies would grow up to rule the world, or at least run a prestigious NGO or branch office in Hong Kong or somesuch, so they elected school boards and sent their kids to colleges who promised to play down the sort of jingoism that might rub foreign underlings the wrong way.

    Turns out the rootless cosmopolitanism they ended up with is worse.

    Now that the wrong track numbers are up, today’s moms are starting to re-adjust their sights on more realistic goals where a healthy dose of patriotism could come in handy. American could be making a comeback.

    • Replies: @anonymous
    Trump embraced Americanism, but his Americanism is defined in opposition to third-worldism and globalism, not in opposition to Europeans. He equated Hillary to Merkel and spoke interchangibly about the refugee crisis in Europe and immigration to the US.

    Again, we don't need to be sticklers for consistency. You can be American, white and European at the same time.

    -
    Contrarian
  68. @syonredux

    “But I think it’s good to have some kind of minority status, and if that means that we’ve got to get together with others from the same region, I think there’s some good that can come of that.”
     
    Back in the old days, people wanted to be classified as White, because being White brought a host of social and legal advantages.Nowadays, however, people want to be classified as non-White, because being non-White brings a host of legal and social advantages (particularly when you are White).

    If anyone needed proof that America is not a White Supremacist country, there it is.

    If anyone needed proof that America is not a White Supremacist country, there it is.

    It’s still in practice a SWPL-supremacist country in many walks of life.

    Many of those who complain about white privilege are in fact complaining about the same people we call “the elite,” and for similar reasons.

  69. anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    People who aren’t of European descent shouldn’t be classified as such. Our crime statistics will clarify once those shady MENA types get taken out of our category and we can see how they’re overrepresented in all sorts of racketeering and crime. Most of the various MENA types loathe each other. Iranians definitely don’t want to be confused for Arabs, neither do Turks who often like to lead people to think they’re European, Assyrians despise the surrounding Muslim populations, Lebanese Christians look westward for inspiration and abhor the Oriental Gulf Arabs, we know what the Armenians think about their Muslim neighbors, and so on. There’s been a lot of bloodshed between these groups where one group gets the upper hand and tries to wipe the other out. Don’t want to be white then adios, nice to have known you. The next job once the Hussein regime leaves is to get rid of the affirmative programs which have metastasized. The Euros are the brains and the backbone of the US despite the smear stereotypes of fat pillheads and yahoos. Without the Euros there’s nothing, no water or electricity. This fact needs to sink in. Better fewer but better.

    • Replies: @Bill B.

    Most of the various MENA types loathe each other.
     
    I definitely think there should be a tremendous push to get some blacks in the MENA category.
    , @Jefferson
    "neither do Turks who often like to lead people to think they’re European,"

    The Turk terrorist who shot up a shopping mall in Washington state doesn't look very European. He looks closer in phenotype to the 9/11 Saudi terrorists than he does to Timothy McVeigh. Even the Tsarnaev brothers look Whiter than him.
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/content/dam/news/2016/09/25/109581075_This-late-Saturday-Sept-24-2016-image-from-video-by-KIRO7-photographer-Jeff-Ritter-shows-s-large_trans++qVzuuqpFlyLIwiB6NTmJwfSVWeZ_vEN7c6bHu2jJnT8.jpg
  70. @(((Owen)))

    Not based on the Latinx academics that I know. They love to talk about their glorious Mestizo heritage, etc.
     
    The more lily white a Conquistador-American is, the more he talks about his deeply powerful Indian blood and Aztec heritage and Spanish culture and so on with more pure garbage.

    The top reserved racial identity jobs in academe, government, and big corporate diversity departments are the only bribes big enough to keep a class of Hispanics non-white that could pass as white. The idea is that creating a new prestigious identity will allow the cathedral to divide us all on ethnic grounds and therefore easily to rule us all.

    But the working Hispanic families still stubbornly aren't buying into it. They have five centuries of experience loving whiteness much more than American whites do.

    The more lily white a Conquistador-American is, the more he talks about his deeply powerful Indian blood and Aztec heritage and Spanish culture and so on with more pure garbage.

    Indeed, the cult of the “Cosmic Race” is permeated with hypocrisy…

    But the working Hispanic families still stubbornly aren’t buying into it. They have five centuries of experience loving whiteness much more than American whites do.

    Dunno. I have friends who tell me about how their White Anglo daughters are mocked at school by Mestizas. Their favored insults include such pleasantries as “White ho,”” gabacha scum,” etc.

    • Replies: @(((Owen)))

    Indeed, the cult of the “Cosmic Race” is permeated with hypocrisy…
     
    Back home la raza cósmica is an artificial attempt to define a new race of people with common purpose. It's like whiteness in America which was invented to join different European ethnics in solidarity.

    But in America, the whole raza cósmica idea is to divide Chicanos firmly against white Americans. The elites that hate it in Mexico have used it in America for the opposite of its original purpose.


    friends who tell me about how their White Anglo daughters are mocked
     
    Your friends need to move to a better school district.
  71. Here’s a Syrian glass artist from /r/The_Donald

    I’m a Syrian glass artist. Here’s a little Pepe I made for you guys 🙂 from The_Donald

    She certainly looks White.

    a lot of christian Syrians are pretty much white, we’re the remnants of the crusades

    Perhaps under the Trumpist junta we could make a rule that MENA + Christian = European-American, MENA + Muslim = MENA.

    • Replies: @syonredux

    Perhaps under the Trumpist junta we could make a rule that MENA + Christian = European-American, MENA + Muslim = MENA.
     
    As Steve's reference to Danny Thomas indicates, that used to be the common understanding in the USA, as Christian Middle Easterners were simply folded into the White Ethnic category.
    , @syonredux

    a lot of christian Syrians are pretty much white, we’re the remnants of the crusades
     
    Dunno about that. But I have heard that non-Muslim Middle Easterners (Mizrahi Jews, Christian Arabs, Druze, etc) tend to have less Sub-Saharan African admixture.
    , @(((Owen)))

    MENA + Christian = European-American, MENA + Muslim = MENA.
     
    And MENA+Jewish = whichever is most advantageous at the time.

    Sounds good to me.
    , @hhh
    Then why do Semites have a different j haplogroup than non middle eastern southern europeans, the problem is that it is intellectually dishonest to call her European if she has j2b1 in her mtdna, since that subhaplogroup is native to the middle east not Europe.
    , @anonymous

    She certainly looks White.

     

    Christians have existed in the MENA area since the early days, way before any crusaders. The Arab Muslim invasions altered the balance. Prior to that some were part of the Byzantine empire. The Christians of those areas usually don't like being lumped in with Arabs. They were switched over to the use of the Arab language and other forms of cultural influence but underneath they're different. Lebanese Christians consider themselves to be descendants of the Phoenicians.
    , @German_reader
    She writes her father's Irish, her mother of Syrian descent which might explain her rather striking phenotype.
    But in general Mideast Christians are probably ok (and they're one of the few groups of refugees I actually have some sympathy for since they're really persecuted and don't have much of a future in the Mideast). Muslims aren't.
    , @Anonymous
    She's just a dumb ass who believes fairy tales told to her by her mother. And you are a bigger dumb ass for being supposedly better informed yet still believing her.

    The fact is that genetics show not only that Levantine Christians aren't Europeans or European-influenced, their Muslim counterparts are in fact even more European than they are.
    The reason for this imo is straightforward, as Muslim Levantines also have 1-2% more Sub Saharan African than Christian. The reason is simply that the Muslims were more open to intermarry with all outsiders, and Christians who were a minority stayed strongly monogamous.

    Perhaps you should try looking into genetics before making yourself look like a fool. You can find native blonde+blue haired blue eyed people in literally every country and every ethnicity in North Africa and the Middle East.
  72. And this pan-Mediterranean definition of whites (or, as they used to be known in official terminology, “Caucasians”)

    A rather stupid term, seeing as how there are actual Caucasians (people from the Caucasus) in the world. “Caucasoid” was the more logical choice. At the very least, it avoids confusion.

    • Replies: @dearieme
    Coming soon to an iSteve comment thread: CuckAsian.
  73. As a European-American, I guess I’m glad to see the idea starting to gain traction. I’m skeptical that a Jewish-dominated European-American movement will ever really help the vast majority of European-Americans in the United States. Jews will always see their interests as somewhat different from the host society, except, of course, in Israel. Finally, I see no way that the U.S. can continue as a single political entity, even a federal one, with all these identity groups competing with one another. Some kind of break-up is inevitable.

    Marlo Thomas was my favorite TV actress of the 1960s. She certainly looked all-American to me.

    • Replies: @Trelane
    https://youtu.be/9Z7RLOiqzdk?t=24
    , @Desiderius

    Marlo Thomas was my favorite TV actress of the 1960s. She certainly looked all-American to me.
     
    My mom used to play this record by Marlo Thomas all the time for me when I was little:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_26FOHoaC78

    https://www.amazon.com/Free-Be-You-Marlo-Thomas/dp/B000F2CC0E
  74. @Steve Sailer
    The preliminaries so far have put Israelis definitely into MENA. No mention of Ashkenazis.

    Ashkenazis could choose to self-identify as MENA as part of the Flight from White.

    Ashkenazis could choose to self-identify as MENA as part of the Flight from White.

    Curious to see how that would shape out with people who are part Jewish. For example, I have some relatives who are 25% Ashkenazi, 25% English-Scottish, 25% Polish, and 25% Italian….

    • Replies: @hhh
    Then why do Semites have a different j haplogroup than non middle eastern southern europeans
  75. @syonredux

    I object to all these hyphenated-Americans.
     
    So did Teddy Roosevelt:

    “The one absolutely certain way of bringing this nation to ruin, of preventing all possibility of its continuing to be a nation at all, would be to permit it to become a tangle of squabbling nationalities, an intricate knot of German-Americans, Irish-Americans, English- Americans, French-Americans, Scandinavian- Americans, or Italian-Americans, each preserving its separate nationality, each at heart feeling more sympathy with Europeans of that nationality than with the other citizens of the American Republic.”
    “The men who do not become Americans and nothing else are hyphenated Americans; and there ought to be no room for them in this country. The man who calls himself an American citizen and who yet shows by his actions that he is primarily the citizen of a foreign land, plays a thoroughly mischievous part in the life of our body politic. He has no place here; and the sooner he returns to the land to which he feels his real heart-allegiance, the better it will be for every good American.”
     
    http://reaganiterepublicanresistance.blogspot.com/2010/05/teddy-roosevelt-no-room-in-this-country.html

    How low we have sunk from the vigorous nationalist patriotism of Theodore Roosevelt. If a politican said something along those lines today, he would probably be disqualified not only from public office, but probably from paid employment.

    • Replies: @Desiderius

    If a politican said something along those lines today, he would probably be disqualified not only from public office, but probably from paid employment.
     
    Or, you know, elected President, whichever.
  76. @Steve Sailer
    The preliminaries so far have put Israelis definitely into MENA. No mention of Ashkenazis.

    Ashkenazis could choose to self-identify as MENA as part of the Flight from White.

    Ashkenazis could choose to self-identify as MENA as part of the Flight from White.

    And then there’s the question of converts to Judaism….Would they acquire the status of naturalized MENAs?

  77. @Diversity Heretic
    As a European-American, I guess I'm glad to see the idea starting to gain traction. I'm skeptical that a Jewish-dominated European-American movement will ever really help the vast majority of European-Americans in the United States. Jews will always see their interests as somewhat different from the host society, except, of course, in Israel. Finally, I see no way that the U.S. can continue as a single political entity, even a federal one, with all these identity groups competing with one another. Some kind of break-up is inevitable.

    Marlo Thomas was my favorite TV actress of the 1960s. She certainly looked all-American to me.

  78. @Anatoly Karlin
    Here's a Syrian glass artist from /r/The_Donald

    https://www.reddit.com/r/The_Donald/comments/57ua2t/im_a_syrian_glass_artist_heres_a_little_pepe_i/

    She certainly looks White.

    a lot of christian Syrians are pretty much white, we're the remnants of the crusades
     
    Perhaps under the Trumpist junta we could make a rule that MENA + Christian = European-American, MENA + Muslim = MENA.

    Perhaps under the Trumpist junta we could make a rule that MENA + Christian = European-American, MENA + Muslim = MENA.

    As Steve’s reference to Danny Thomas indicates, that used to be the common understanding in the USA, as Christian Middle Easterners were simply folded into the White Ethnic category.

    • Replies: @Anon
    And there are a lot of them. My best friend growing up was Syrian Christian. My car dealer in Minnesota was a Lebanese Catholic.
  79. anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Desiderius

    But anyway, I don’t want to be “White” or “European-American”. I’m American.
     
    Seems to be working for Trump.

    There was a period there where UMC moms were hoping their babies would grow up to rule the world, or at least run a prestigious NGO or branch office in Hong Kong or somesuch, so they elected school boards and sent their kids to colleges who promised to play down the sort of jingoism that might rub foreign underlings the wrong way.

    Turns out the rootless cosmopolitanism they ended up with is worse.

    Now that the wrong track numbers are up, today's moms are starting to re-adjust their sights on more realistic goals where a healthy dose of patriotism could come in handy. American could be making a comeback.

    Trump embraced Americanism, but his Americanism is defined in opposition to third-worldism and globalism, not in opposition to Europeans. He equated Hillary to Merkel and spoke interchangibly about the refugee crisis in Europe and immigration to the US.

    Again, we don’t need to be sticklers for consistency. You can be American, white and European at the same time.


    Contrarian

  80. @Anatoly Karlin
    Here's a Syrian glass artist from /r/The_Donald

    https://www.reddit.com/r/The_Donald/comments/57ua2t/im_a_syrian_glass_artist_heres_a_little_pepe_i/

    She certainly looks White.

    a lot of christian Syrians are pretty much white, we're the remnants of the crusades
     
    Perhaps under the Trumpist junta we could make a rule that MENA + Christian = European-American, MENA + Muslim = MENA.

    a lot of christian Syrians are pretty much white, we’re the remnants of the crusades

    Dunno about that. But I have heard that non-Muslim Middle Easterners (Mizrahi Jews, Christian Arabs, Druze, etc) tend to have less Sub-Saharan African admixture.

  81. @syonredux

    The more lily white a Conquistador-American is, the more he talks about his deeply powerful Indian blood and Aztec heritage and Spanish culture and so on with more pure garbage.
     
    Indeed, the cult of the "Cosmic Race" is permeated with hypocrisy...

    But the working Hispanic families still stubbornly aren’t buying into it. They have five centuries of experience loving whiteness much more than American whites do.
     
    Dunno. I have friends who tell me about how their White Anglo daughters are mocked at school by Mestizas. Their favored insults include such pleasantries as "White ho,"" gabacha scum," etc.

    Indeed, the cult of the “Cosmic Race” is permeated with hypocrisy…

    Back home la raza cósmica is an artificial attempt to define a new race of people with common purpose. It’s like whiteness in America which was invented to join different European ethnics in solidarity.

    But in America, the whole raza cósmica idea is to divide Chicanos firmly against white Americans. The elites that hate it in Mexico have used it in America for the opposite of its original purpose.

    friends who tell me about how their White Anglo daughters are mocked

    Your friends need to move to a better school district.

    • Replies: @syonredux

    friends who tell me about how their White Anglo daughters are mocked

    Your friends need to move to a better school district.
     
    That's getting increasingly difficult, what with the Hispanic percentage of the state increasing at a rapid pace....

    Back home la raza cósmica is an artificial attempt to define a new race of people with common purpose. It’s like whiteness in America which was invented to join different European ethnics in solidarity.

    But in America, the whole raza cósmica idea is to divide Chicanos firmly against white Americans. The elites that hate it in Mexico have used it in America for the opposite of its original purpose.
     
    Hey, it helps them expand Hispanic power in the USA. Angl0 vs Latino. It's an old feud.
    , @syonredux
    As an Anglo, it's a bit hard for me to be overly sanguine about a viciously Anglophobic character like Vasconcelos....
  82. @Anatoly Karlin
    Here's a Syrian glass artist from /r/The_Donald

    https://www.reddit.com/r/The_Donald/comments/57ua2t/im_a_syrian_glass_artist_heres_a_little_pepe_i/

    She certainly looks White.

    a lot of christian Syrians are pretty much white, we're the remnants of the crusades
     
    Perhaps under the Trumpist junta we could make a rule that MENA + Christian = European-American, MENA + Muslim = MENA.

    MENA + Christian = European-American, MENA + Muslim = MENA.

    And MENA+Jewish = whichever is most advantageous at the time.

    Sounds good to me.

  83. @Diversity Heretic
    As a European-American, I guess I'm glad to see the idea starting to gain traction. I'm skeptical that a Jewish-dominated European-American movement will ever really help the vast majority of European-Americans in the United States. Jews will always see their interests as somewhat different from the host society, except, of course, in Israel. Finally, I see no way that the U.S. can continue as a single political entity, even a federal one, with all these identity groups competing with one another. Some kind of break-up is inevitable.

    Marlo Thomas was my favorite TV actress of the 1960s. She certainly looked all-American to me.

    Marlo Thomas was my favorite TV actress of the 1960s. She certainly looked all-American to me.

    My mom used to play this record by Marlo Thomas all the time for me when I was little:

    https://www.amazon.com/Free-Be-You-Marlo-Thomas/dp/B000F2CC0E

    • Replies: @Cagey Beast
    I remember that music fondly too. Unfortunately when I look at it again with adult eyes I can see the politics. In a nutshell it's that the differences between the sexes are an unhealthy social construct. We got this stuff fed to us with our first solid food.
  84. “All of this started with affirmative action and it will never, ever end until whites coalesce politically and put an end to it.”

    Winding down affirmative action needs to become a serious matter of discussion. It’s long since moved beyond “affirmative”. When experiments fail, they need to be ended.

    • Replies: @Mark Spahn (West Seneca, NY)
    Idea: Let's appoint a date, in the next few years, for an official end to Affirmative Action. This liberation day could be set to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juneteenth . Free at last, free at last.
    , @dearieme
    Particularly when they were a lousy idea in the first place.
    , @Yak-15
    I don't know anymore. Certainly only the descendants of slaves may have a case for AA. The rest can bugger off! But if HBD genetics precepts are correct, these people will inherently be unequal. We must stop mass migrations of those less cognitively gifted because once they far outnumber the identifiable smarts, things like this happen:

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indonesian_killings_of_1965%E2%80%9366

    The truth about multi-ethnic nations is that if one race or ethnicity is consistently having better outcomes than the rest, the others become jealous. And jealousy breeds contempt. The Jews know this as do the Chinese.

  85. @Diversity Heretic
    How low we have sunk from the vigorous nationalist patriotism of Theodore Roosevelt. If a politican said something along those lines today, he would probably be disqualified not only from public office, but probably from paid employment.

    If a politican said something along those lines today, he would probably be disqualified not only from public office, but probably from paid employment.

    Or, you know, elected President, whichever.

    • Agree: 415 reasons
  86. @syonredux

    Perhaps under the Trumpist junta we could make a rule that MENA + Christian = European-American, MENA + Muslim = MENA.
     
    As Steve's reference to Danny Thomas indicates, that used to be the common understanding in the USA, as Christian Middle Easterners were simply folded into the White Ethnic category.

    And there are a lot of them. My best friend growing up was Syrian Christian. My car dealer in Minnesota was a Lebanese Catholic.

  87. @(((Owen)))

    Indeed, the cult of the “Cosmic Race” is permeated with hypocrisy…
     
    Back home la raza cósmica is an artificial attempt to define a new race of people with common purpose. It's like whiteness in America which was invented to join different European ethnics in solidarity.

    But in America, the whole raza cósmica idea is to divide Chicanos firmly against white Americans. The elites that hate it in Mexico have used it in America for the opposite of its original purpose.


    friends who tell me about how their White Anglo daughters are mocked
     
    Your friends need to move to a better school district.

    friends who tell me about how their White Anglo daughters are mocked

    Your friends need to move to a better school district.

    That’s getting increasingly difficult, what with the Hispanic percentage of the state increasing at a rapid pace….

    Back home la raza cósmica is an artificial attempt to define a new race of people with common purpose. It’s like whiteness in America which was invented to join different European ethnics in solidarity.

    But in America, the whole raza cósmica idea is to divide Chicanos firmly against white Americans. The elites that hate it in Mexico have used it in America for the opposite of its original purpose.

    Hey, it helps them expand Hispanic power in the USA. Angl0 vs Latino. It’s an old feud.

  88. It’s not a purse. It’s European!

  89. @Whiskey
    Zionism was in no way a Flight from White. It was if anything an embrace of Whiteness, just a Jewish one. Zionism was founded in the aftermath of the Dreyfuss Affair, when it became clear that Catholic France would not accept Jews, and neither would Hapsburg Catholic Austria, nor Orthodox Russia. That all places would at best allow Jews to be semi-serfs. It was as European as the Easter Rising, with the same aims. European nationalism.

    Golda Meir and Theodore Herzl and Ariel Sharon would have been shocked to be considered non-White.

    Spencer seems intent on merely trolling; that's not IMHO a smart move. Jews have traditionally been considered White: Judah P. Benjamin, and Disraeli come to mind. Jerry Seinfeld is not White? Patton Oswalt? Howard Stern? Sarah Michelle Gellar is not White? [Freddy Prinze Jr. is ... White. Just look at him.]

    That's my taxonomy. Looks White, is White. And I'm proud to be White. Indeed, we ought to claim it as being bad, dangerous, volatile, and potentially violent if provoked. In short, sexy chick bait. Nobody wants to be Casper Milquetoast. Tony Soprano on the other hand ...

    Or Walter White. The real actor behind him may be a clueless liberal, but the character shook many a woman's desire.

    But is “Whiskey” – that scots-irishman extrordinaire – actually scottish? Or even Irish? Especially given that he never talks about Scotland, or Ireland, or – indeed – even knows what the term “scots-irish” even means?

    • Replies: @Uncle Remus
    In the British Isles the water of life is spelled 'whisky'. In Kentucky 'whiskey'. Perhaps our commenter is neither Irish nor Scottish.
  90. @(((Owen)))

    Indeed, the cult of the “Cosmic Race” is permeated with hypocrisy…
     
    Back home la raza cósmica is an artificial attempt to define a new race of people with common purpose. It's like whiteness in America which was invented to join different European ethnics in solidarity.

    But in America, the whole raza cósmica idea is to divide Chicanos firmly against white Americans. The elites that hate it in Mexico have used it in America for the opposite of its original purpose.


    friends who tell me about how their White Anglo daughters are mocked
     
    Your friends need to move to a better school district.

    As an Anglo, it’s a bit hard for me to be overly sanguine about a viciously Anglophobic character like Vasconcelos….

    • Replies: @(((Owen)))
    Meh. He's not writing to promote your national interests. He has a nation. And it's one he largely made for himself when he turned the Secretariat of Education into a deeply powerful force for nationalism.

    It was the opposite of what American education does. Americans could use a Vasconcelos. Those non-Spanish speakers didn't get any bilingual education garbage from Vasconcelos.

    And he's a great writer.
    , @SFG
    I think the point is to use some of his ideas for the benefit of the USA. Kind of like the way Richard Spencer's always making comparisons to Zionism (and shut down a liberal rabbi at Texas A&M...)
  91. @syonredux
    As an Anglo, it's a bit hard for me to be overly sanguine about a viciously Anglophobic character like Vasconcelos....

    Meh. He’s not writing to promote your national interests. He has a nation. And it’s one he largely made for himself when he turned the Secretariat of Education into a deeply powerful force for nationalism.

    It was the opposite of what American education does. Americans could use a Vasconcelos. Those non-Spanish speakers didn’t get any bilingual education garbage from Vasconcelos.

    And he’s a great writer.

    • Replies: @syonredux

    Meh. He’s not writing to promote your national interests.
     
    Clearly not. He's writing against my national interests.

    He has a nation. And it’s one he largely made for himself when he turned the Secretariat of Education into a deeply powerful force for nationalism.

    It was the opposite of what American education does. Americans could use a Vasconcelos. Those non-Spanish speakers didn’t get any bilingual education garbage from Vasconcelos.
     
    No, what they got was the notion that Anglo-America is their enemy.

    And he’s a great writer.
     
    Not based on what I've read.
  92. @Anonymous
    "European-American" has been David Duke's favored term for a while now. That's the term he generally uses.

    The leader of the alt-right says that Ashkenazi Jews aren't white, and suggests that he's uncomfortable or offended by Ashkenazi Jews identifying as white:

    http://www.tabletmag.com/jewish-news-and-politics/218219/steve-bannon-alt-right

    How would the Jews fit into this racial breakdown? “Ashkenazi Jews are not white,” according to Spencer. “Every time I read about a Jew somewhere identifying as a white person, I cringe.”
     

    So he doesn’t consider Jews white but he considers his half Asian wife white?

    • Replies: @SFG
    People defining terms to suit themselves? Never happens.
  93. @Spoons
    So now we're going to be called non-MENA non-Hispanic whites.

    So is Alexa Chung white and European? So may look white but she is almost half Chinese by ancestry, now you may make a plausible case around Kate beckinsale or todd palin being white and European since they are 90 percent European genetically, but not Alexa Chung, and her brother actually looks Eurasian.

  94. @Cagey Beast
    Could we make unmarried, university-educated White women into their own racial category? That would be fantastic.

    Frankly I wonder if it will be better for white nationalist women to just branch into their own, I mean if there are a lot of gay male white nationalists, there should be such a thing as a lesbian white nationalist too right?

  95. @syonredux

    Ashkenazis could choose to self-identify as MENA as part of the Flight from White.
     
    Curious to see how that would shape out with people who are part Jewish. For example, I have some relatives who are 25% Ashkenazi, 25% English-Scottish, 25% Polish, and 25% Italian....

    Then why do Semites have a different j haplogroup than non middle eastern southern europeans

    • Replies: @syonredux

    Then why do Semites have a different j haplogroup than non middle eastern southern europeans
     
    There's more to life than the "j haplogroup ":

    I’m looking at abstracts on Ashkenazi genetics from ASHG 2013 and SMBE 2014 – by the same group, with Shai Carmi as the lead author. They did 128 whole genomes, 50x deep.

    They concluded Ashkenazi Jews were about 50% Middle Eastern and 50% European. In the 2013 abstract, they were pretty specific: they estimated the European ancestry fraction at 55% , plus or minus 2%.
     
    https://westhunt.wordpress.com/2014/06/24/ashkenazi-ancestry/
  96. “A European-American identity movement with heavy Jewish leadership might become an accepted player on the identity politics scene.”
    Yeah nah.

    • Agree: Amasius
  97. “…remarked to a friend of mind…” “mine”?

  98. @Anatoly Karlin
    Here's a Syrian glass artist from /r/The_Donald

    https://www.reddit.com/r/The_Donald/comments/57ua2t/im_a_syrian_glass_artist_heres_a_little_pepe_i/

    She certainly looks White.

    a lot of christian Syrians are pretty much white, we're the remnants of the crusades
     
    Perhaps under the Trumpist junta we could make a rule that MENA + Christian = European-American, MENA + Muslim = MENA.

    Then why do Semites have a different j haplogroup than non middle eastern southern europeans, the problem is that it is intellectually dishonest to call her European if she has j2b1 in her mtdna, since that subhaplogroup is native to the middle east not Europe.

  99. @hhh
    Then why do Semites have a different j haplogroup than non middle eastern southern europeans

    Then why do Semites have a different j haplogroup than non middle eastern southern europeans

    There’s more to life than the “j haplogroup “:

    I’m looking at abstracts on Ashkenazi genetics from ASHG 2013 and SMBE 2014 – by the same group, with Shai Carmi as the lead author. They did 128 whole genomes, 50x deep.

    They concluded Ashkenazi Jews were about 50% Middle Eastern and 50% European. In the 2013 abstract, they were pretty specific: they estimated the European ancestry fraction at 55% , plus or minus 2%.

    https://westhunt.wordpress.com/2014/06/24/ashkenazi-ancestry/

    • Replies: @candid_observer
    One of the interesting consequences of the finding that Ashkenazi Jews are a bit over 50% of European ancestry is that it gives support to a claim Harpending and Cochran made in their book about the IQs of Ashkenazi Jews: namely, that their IQ was mostly selected for and increased in the last 1000 years or so, and that Jews in more ancient times weren't so remarkable in their IQ.

    If, roughly 2000 years ago, the ancestors of Jews intermarried with Europeans at a rate of 55%, then, even if Jews, on average, were well above the European average, the new average after intermarriage would cut that advantage by a factor of 55%. Thus, if they had been 1 SD above European average before, they'd be only .45 SD above it afterwards. Basically, to reach the 1 SD average again, they'd have to go through powerful selection for IQ in the remaining 2000 years. Looked at another way, for Jews to have a 1 SD advantage after the European intermarriage episode, they would have had to have enjoyed a 2.2 SD advantage beforehand -- which hardly seems consistent with the historical record.

  100. @(((Owen)))
    Meh. He's not writing to promote your national interests. He has a nation. And it's one he largely made for himself when he turned the Secretariat of Education into a deeply powerful force for nationalism.

    It was the opposite of what American education does. Americans could use a Vasconcelos. Those non-Spanish speakers didn't get any bilingual education garbage from Vasconcelos.

    And he's a great writer.

    Meh. He’s not writing to promote your national interests.

    Clearly not. He’s writing against my national interests.

    He has a nation. And it’s one he largely made for himself when he turned the Secretariat of Education into a deeply powerful force for nationalism.

    It was the opposite of what American education does. Americans could use a Vasconcelos. Those non-Spanish speakers didn’t get any bilingual education garbage from Vasconcelos.

    No, what they got was the notion that Anglo-America is their enemy.

    And he’s a great writer.

    Not based on what I’ve read.

    • Replies: @(((Owen)))

    Not based on what I’ve read.
     
    Try Ulises Criollo.
  101. @Opinionator
    Jews will have to choose.

    No. They won't. Any rule that would require jews to choose, will never be allowed to come into effect.

    Jews will have to choose.

    No. They won’t.

    Officially, maybe not. Practically speaking, well… the passage of time has a way of turning a non-decision into a decision. What’s that Howard Zinn quote?

    “You can’t be neutral on a moving train.”

  102. OT

  103. As far as I’ve heard, nobody has thought about what Group X will be officially called.

    It seems they already have one: “People who believe they are white.”

    http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/07/tanehisi-coates-between-the-world-and-me/397619/

  104. @The Last Real Calvinist

    That then raises the question of what to do with Asian countries beyond Turkey like Armenia and Georgia that are outposts of Christendom.

     

    This is the crux of the whole issue. That is, increasingly, for various groups looking at the identity question from a variety of perspectives, it really boils down to Christendom (in the traditional, historical sense) vs The Others. Geography is relevant but secondary to this more fundamental distinction.

    OK for eastern Europe, but it doesn’t scale for Africa. They’re pretty much all Christians south of Uganda.

    • Replies: @The Last Real Calvinist

    OK for eastern Europe, but it doesn’t scale for Africa. They’re pretty much all Christians south of Uganda.

     

    Sorry, I wasn't clear: by 'Christendom', I don't mean The Church, i.e. all Christians on earth. To me, Christendom = historically Christian lands, all in Europe or in the close-to-Europe middle East or north Africa, whose borders were threatened and/or breached by Islam.

    In the strictest sense, actually, Christendom refers to European state-sponsored Christianity. For example, when Kierkegaard wrote his Attack on Christendom, I don't think he really had the Copts and Syrian Orthodox in mind.

    This is why SJWs and other Christian-despising leftists get a bit confused and glance around uncomfortably when you start bringing up Islamic oppression of African Christians, and even Syrian and other middle-Eastern ones, and why the classification of ethnicities such as Armenians is fraught for them. Lefties don't want to deal with ambiguity when separating the Who from the Whom.

  105. Ethnic Persians might actually be white.

  106. Wasn’t there a saying back before WW1 that Asia begins at the gates of Budapest? And I remember that Russians were really seen to be more Asian than European until after WW2. Hence why Russians are associated with Oriental despotism. Or maybe the reasons why Russian culture is so prone to despotism is because of the Mongol blood running through the veins of allegedly purely Slavic Russian? And before someone uses the Kaiser as an example I am not aware of Wilhem being used as a religious icon like the Tsar was.

  107. > But Lebanon’s in Asia

    just like the country which Philip Giraldi admires so much

  108. @Whiskey
    Zionism was in no way a Flight from White. It was if anything an embrace of Whiteness, just a Jewish one. Zionism was founded in the aftermath of the Dreyfuss Affair, when it became clear that Catholic France would not accept Jews, and neither would Hapsburg Catholic Austria, nor Orthodox Russia. That all places would at best allow Jews to be semi-serfs. It was as European as the Easter Rising, with the same aims. European nationalism.

    Golda Meir and Theodore Herzl and Ariel Sharon would have been shocked to be considered non-White.

    Spencer seems intent on merely trolling; that's not IMHO a smart move. Jews have traditionally been considered White: Judah P. Benjamin, and Disraeli come to mind. Jerry Seinfeld is not White? Patton Oswalt? Howard Stern? Sarah Michelle Gellar is not White? [Freddy Prinze Jr. is ... White. Just look at him.]

    That's my taxonomy. Looks White, is White. And I'm proud to be White. Indeed, we ought to claim it as being bad, dangerous, volatile, and potentially violent if provoked. In short, sexy chick bait. Nobody wants to be Casper Milquetoast. Tony Soprano on the other hand ...

    Or Walter White. The real actor behind him may be a clueless liberal, but the character shook many a woman's desire.

    Is Jennifer Beals White? Looks pretty White. Is Tommy Chong White? Looks pretty White.

    I just can’t believe we’re going to simply wing it and go by looks alone. What about reality? Isn’t this a detail-oriented community?

    • Replies: @Clyde

    Is Jennifer Beals White? Looks pretty White. Is Tommy Chong White? Looks pretty White.
     
    She looks a bit Indian and she is per wikipedia
  109. @syonredux

    Meh. He’s not writing to promote your national interests.
     
    Clearly not. He's writing against my national interests.

    He has a nation. And it’s one he largely made for himself when he turned the Secretariat of Education into a deeply powerful force for nationalism.

    It was the opposite of what American education does. Americans could use a Vasconcelos. Those non-Spanish speakers didn’t get any bilingual education garbage from Vasconcelos.
     
    No, what they got was the notion that Anglo-America is their enemy.

    And he’s a great writer.
     
    Not based on what I've read.

    Not based on what I’ve read.

    Try Ulises Criollo.

  110. @Desiderius

    Marlo Thomas was my favorite TV actress of the 1960s. She certainly looked all-American to me.
     
    My mom used to play this record by Marlo Thomas all the time for me when I was little:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_26FOHoaC78

    https://www.amazon.com/Free-Be-You-Marlo-Thomas/dp/B000F2CC0E

    I remember that music fondly too. Unfortunately when I look at it again with adult eyes I can see the politics. In a nutshell it’s that the differences between the sexes are an unhealthy social construct. We got this stuff fed to us with our first solid food.

    • Agree: Opinionator
  111. anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Anatoly Karlin
    Here's a Syrian glass artist from /r/The_Donald

    https://www.reddit.com/r/The_Donald/comments/57ua2t/im_a_syrian_glass_artist_heres_a_little_pepe_i/

    She certainly looks White.

    a lot of christian Syrians are pretty much white, we're the remnants of the crusades
     
    Perhaps under the Trumpist junta we could make a rule that MENA + Christian = European-American, MENA + Muslim = MENA.

    She certainly looks White.

    Christians have existed in the MENA area since the early days, way before any crusaders. The Arab Muslim invasions altered the balance. Prior to that some were part of the Byzantine empire. The Christians of those areas usually don’t like being lumped in with Arabs. They were switched over to the use of the Arab language and other forms of cultural influence but underneath they’re different. Lebanese Christians consider themselves to be descendants of the Phoenicians.

  112. @anonymous
    "All of this started with affirmative action and it will never, ever end until whites coalesce politically and put an end to it."

    Winding down affirmative action needs to become a serious matter of discussion. It's long since moved beyond "affirmative". When experiments fail, they need to be ended.

    Idea: Let’s appoint a date, in the next few years, for an official end to Affirmative Action. This liberation day could be set to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juneteenth . Free at last, free at last.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    The June 2003 Supreme Court ruling upholding affirmative action in public colleges said it wouldn't be necessary in 25 years, so June 2028 would be the Juneteenth.
  113. @jhdhx
    So he doesn't consider Jews white but he considers his half Asian wife white?

    People defining terms to suit themselves? Never happens.

    • Replies: @hs
    So how is race not a social construct? Have you even realized how crazy that sound? Someone who is 100 European is white, someone who is only 50 percent European is white someone who is 40 Chinese is white, someone who is 25 percent black is white, again so you realize that is just batshit crazy? You are effectively arguing that race is skin deep with almost no standards other than that. I mean do we call something that is only 60 percent gold and 40 percent iron gold , or a gold-iron alloy, that about it for a mibute,
  114. What about people who are mixed race? What if one is part Asian and white but identifies with the WN movement? Is he or she implicitly rejected?

  115. Why put the euro part on it? Look at a census map of largest ancestry, there is a large swath of the country corresponding to Appalachia, the upland south and a fair part of the Midwest where the largest reported ancestry is “American” I’d bet that that same area overlays pretty well with the area the armed forces pull their volunteers from. The only issue is the greasy fellow pictured in the article, if he had any ancestral ida would probably say “American” too. There is still a lot of America where ID’ing as American is a good thing.

  116. The Race Is a Social Construct thing comes from those whose own project is Under Construction.

  117. origins in Algeria, Bahrain, Egypt, Iraq…

    The Census officials should logically include Sicily in the MENA classification. I had a neighbor who looked just like Danny Thomas, only he was several shades darker. He was Sicilian American. Sicily is only 70 miles from Tunis as the duck flies and was oppressed by North African Muslim occupiers for hundreds of years, so they have that going for them as well.

  118. I think that being downscale could actually be a benefit.

    In a ” we’re just salt of the earth, old stock whites..” Or redneck pride kind of way. Most of us don’t look like Hollywood stars.

  119. @Anonymous
    "European-American" has been David Duke's favored term for a while now. That's the term he generally uses.

    The leader of the alt-right says that Ashkenazi Jews aren't white, and suggests that he's uncomfortable or offended by Ashkenazi Jews identifying as white:

    http://www.tabletmag.com/jewish-news-and-politics/218219/steve-bannon-alt-right

    How would the Jews fit into this racial breakdown? “Ashkenazi Jews are not white,” according to Spencer. “Every time I read about a Jew somewhere identifying as a white person, I cringe.”
     

    I don’t quite get the faux-outrage about what he said.

    How many Jews truly identify with whites and act in the interests of whites in general as opposed to the general interests of the tribe?

    Jews are at the vanguard of anti-White politics. It’s clear many of them do not honestly identify as white.

    • Replies: @Jefferson
    "How many Jews truly identify with whites and act in the interests of whites in general"

    How many Northern European Gentiles who voted for Crooked Hildabeast truly identify with Whites and act in the interests of Whites in general?

    If politics determines Whiteness than most Whites in blue states that voted for Crooked Hildabeast should be kicked out of the White race. Any White person who believes Donald J. Trump is the new Adolf Hitler should be kicked out of the White race. Any White person who believes Islam is a religion of peace should be kicked out of the White race. Any White person who supports affirmative action should be kicked out of the White race. Any White person who supports Black Lies Matter should be kicked out of the White race. Any White person who supports gun control should be kicked out of the White race. Any White person who supports open borders should be kicked out of the White race. Whites who race mix should be kicked out of the White race, so Richard Spencer should be kicked out of the White race. How does having sex with Asian women advance White interests?
  120. @John Chard
    Lawrence Murray coined the neologism "Anglo-American" to refer to white Americans in a more formal and respectful fashion. I quite like it, personally, though unfortunately it doesn't seem to have caught on much.

    That doesn’t work because it implies English heritage. There are plenty of American whites whose ancestors are not mainly British.

  121. Groups that could be added in the future include Turks, Sudanese, Somalis, Afghans, Armenians, Azerbaijanis, Cypriots, Djiboutians, Georgians, Mauritanians, South Sudanese and Turkish Cypriots, census officials said.

    If so, that new MENA classification will certainly help clear up any confusion.

    An Afghan boy:

    Some South Sudanese boys:

  122. @SFG
    People defining terms to suit themselves? Never happens.

    So how is race not a social construct? Have you even realized how crazy that sound? Someone who is 100 European is white, someone who is only 50 percent European is white someone who is 40 Chinese is white, someone who is 25 percent black is white, again so you realize that is just batshit crazy? You are effectively arguing that race is skin deep with almost no standards other than that. I mean do we call something that is only 60 percent gold and 40 percent iron gold , or a gold-iron alloy, that about it for a mibute,

  123. What about a category EA–“East African”? Or does that take in everybody? After all, homo sap sap first migrated north from the Rift Valley between 100K and 200K years ago. Notwithstanding the points raised by Mr. Taylor and by Steve– they are certainly valid given the subject matter — but verily this whole race/ethnicity thing has degenerated into farce, thanks to the Obama “progressive” crowd.

  124. @Arclight
    Just anecdotal, but an affordable housing property I was involved with in Arizona had to conduct a survey for the federal government in which one of the items residents were asked to indicate was whether they were white, Hispanic, black, or native American. I was somewhat surprised when over half of the residents with recognizably Spanish surnames chose "white." Maybe it does have some cachet still...

    This is consistent with the way things work in Latin America. In most Latin countries, as long as you live in the Spanish speaking community and not as an Indian, you identify as “white” even if when you look in the mirror you are not exactly snowy white. This goes way back to the beginning when the Spanish male settlers took native wives but they would have raised their kids as being “Spanish” – speaking Spanish, going to church, wearing Western clothes, etc. If you go way back to the early roots of the European Jewish community it would have worked the same way, except that Jews, being Middle Eastern, were already more or less white looking so their 1/2 European offspring ended up looking less different from their fellow Europeans whereas people who are 1/2 Indian are usually recognizably not white. English settlers came over as families right from the beginning but in Latin America the immigrants were mainly single men (soldiers).

  125. @syonredux

    And this pan-Mediterranean definition of whites (or, as they used to be known in official terminology, “Caucasians”)
     
    A rather stupid term, seeing as how there are actual Caucasians (people from the Caucasus) in the world. "Caucasoid" was the more logical choice. At the very least, it avoids confusion.

    Coming soon to an iSteve comment thread: CuckAsian.

  126. @anonymous
    "All of this started with affirmative action and it will never, ever end until whites coalesce politically and put an end to it."

    Winding down affirmative action needs to become a serious matter of discussion. It's long since moved beyond "affirmative". When experiments fail, they need to be ended.

    Particularly when they were a lousy idea in the first place.

  127. @anonymous
    "All of this started with affirmative action and it will never, ever end until whites coalesce politically and put an end to it."

    Winding down affirmative action needs to become a serious matter of discussion. It's long since moved beyond "affirmative". When experiments fail, they need to be ended.

    I don’t know anymore. Certainly only the descendants of slaves may have a case for AA. The rest can bugger off! But if HBD genetics precepts are correct, these people will inherently be unequal. We must stop mass migrations of those less cognitively gifted because once they far outnumber the identifiable smarts, things like this happen:

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indonesian_killings_of_1965%E2%80%9366

    The truth about multi-ethnic nations is that if one race or ethnicity is consistently having better outcomes than the rest, the others become jealous. And jealousy breeds contempt. The Jews know this as do the Chinese.

    • Replies: @Opinionator
    Certainly only the descendants of slaves may have a case for AA.

    How are the descendants of slaves worse off for slavery?
  128. Dude, white is not the preferred nomenclature…..Appalachian-american, please

  129. @John Chard
    Lawrence Murray coined the neologism "Anglo-American" to refer to white Americans in a more formal and respectful fashion. I quite like it, personally, though unfortunately it doesn't seem to have caught on much.

    Germans, Russians, Italians, Poles…all white by any standard and definitely not Anglo. Heck, calling an Irishman ‘Anglo’ is an insult!

    • Agree: ben tillman
    • Replies: @(((Owen)))

    Germans, Russians, Italians, Poles…all white by any standard
     
    Any standard? We Americans have upped our standards. Up yours.

    "And in Europe, the Spaniards, Italians, French, Russians and Swedes, are generally of what we call a swarthy Complexion; as are the Germans also, the Saxons only excepted, who with the English, make the principal Body of White People on the Face of the Earth." -Benjamin Franklin
    , @ben tillman

    Germans, Russians, Italians, Poles…all white by any standard and definitely not Anglo. Heck, calling an Irishman ‘Anglo’ is an insult!
     
    Where I come from, "English" is essentially the equivalent of "gentile" or "outgroup member".
    , @Reg Cæsar

    Heck, calling an Irishman ‘Anglo’ is an insult!
     
    Then he shouldn't be here. Should've thought twice about coming over.

    Naturalizing in Canada is a thorny issue for Irishmen, because to do so one must swear an oath to Her Majesty. Many of them just mumble it.
    , @Jefferson
    "Germans, Russians, Italians, Poles…all white by any standard"

    Are Italians who can easily pass for a Jew, a Latino, or an Arab also White by any standard?

    When I think of White by any standard I think of extremely Nordic phenotype Caucasoids like stand up comedian Jim Gaffigan and Julian Assange for example.

    I assume when you say White by any standard you are not using the more broad definition of White which is anybody who looks White standing next to Michelle and Barack.

  130. @syonredux
    As an Anglo, it's a bit hard for me to be overly sanguine about a viciously Anglophobic character like Vasconcelos....

    I think the point is to use some of his ideas for the benefit of the USA. Kind of like the way Richard Spencer’s always making comparisons to Zionism (and shut down a liberal rabbi at Texas A&M…)

  131. Great piece. But “a European-American identity movement with heavy Jewish leadership” would be yet another front group to guarantee every atom of reality is good for Jews.

  132. @Arclight
    Just anecdotal, but an affordable housing property I was involved with in Arizona had to conduct a survey for the federal government in which one of the items residents were asked to indicate was whether they were white, Hispanic, black, or native American. I was somewhat surprised when over half of the residents with recognizably Spanish surnames chose "white." Maybe it does have some cachet still...

    ‘I was somewhat surprised when over half of the residents with recognizably Spanish surnames chose “white.” Maybe it does have some cachet still…’

    They choose ‘Hispanic’ when applying for college, a loan, or a job. Bank.

    The science of Evolution proves homo sapiens magically arose in Africa, so I always choose ‘African-American.’ You’re not against Science, are you?

  133. We don’t know what different individuals will choose to do. It could be that many politically conservative Ashkenazis will identify as MENA to uphold the Jewish claim to Israel. Or it could be that liberal Ashkenazis will identify as MENA in the name of fighting white privilege. Or vice-versa. Nobody really knows as of yet.

    Jared Taylor very much wants Jews within his identity politics movement. As a certain immigrant media tycoon once remarked to a friend of mind in explaining why he subsidized neoconservative spokesmen, “To succeed in America, don’t need all the Jews in New York on your side, but you do need some.”

    So you want Jews to join the failure that is white nationalism/paleconservatism/altrightism, or whatever the hell this group of bottom feeders is called now, and identify as white when you don’t consider them white?

    Of course what antisemites want is no longer relevant, but I do find it amusing how pompous you are to expect Jews which you hate to run the immigration restriction movement you failed to create.

    And congratulations to paleoconservatives and the altright, you eternal losers, on having American nationalism and immigration restriction taken over by a philo-Zionist surrounded by Jewish advisers.

    A better question for Jews is why we don’t purge Unzites from race realism and take it over for ourselves?

    • Agree: (((Owen)))
    • Replies: @Mr. Anon
    "A better question for Jews is why we don’t purge Unzites from race realism and take it over for ourselves?"

    Because having convinced people of the reality and importance of race, you might not be able to limit how many racial distinctions they choose to make.

    You write a screed like that, and then wonder where anti-semitism comes from. I guess that's what is meant by the term "chutzpah".
    , @Anonymous

    Jared Taylor very much wants Jews within his identity politics movement. As a certain immigrant media tycoon once remarked to a friend of mind in explaining why he subsidized neoconservative spokesmen, “To succeed in America, don’t need all the Jews in New York on your side, but you do need some.”
     
    That was Rupert Murdoch, an old old-media tycoon, describing the old pre-internet, and especially pre social media, world, in which any sort of movement or initiative had to go through gatekeepers in the New York media world. As a result, the New York media world had veto power over any movement or initiative, and could shape and mold them. But now the internet, and especially social media, has broken this monopoly. This is how the alt-right rose - by like minded people being able to connect and network directly through the internet and social media platforms like Twitter and 4Chan, rather than having their media intermediated by the New York media giants.

    Taylor himself is an older guy in the old media mold. He's been organizing for decades now through conferences and publishing physical magazines. He's basically had no influence on the rise of the alt-right, who are mostly younger guys who networked and organized on social media platforms. Taylor arguably owes more to the alt-right than vice versa, as his increased fame and notoriety now is mainly due to the rise of the alt-right.

    The blame for this development really ultimately lies with the internet and social media like Twitter. It has basically been a mini technological revolution that has broken the old media monopoly.
  134. Kind of like the way Richard Spencer’s always making comparisons to Zionism (and shut down a liberal rabbi at Texas A&M…)

    If they want Jewish participation Richard “Heil Trump” Spencer (and brilliant work by Brimelow choosing that closeted fool as the head of the altright) and the other antisemites, including Jewish antisemites like Unz, will have to be purged. But they’re already almost out in the Cold with an American nationalist administration led by a philo-Zionist aren’t they?

    I say we race realist Jews formally take this thing over.

    It’s clear American antisemitism has failed by any standard to either reduce imaginary Jewish influence or restrict immigration, so there’s no reason why Jews shouldn’t formally junk these unpatriotic racialists.

    • Replies: @Mr. Anon
    "If they want Jewish participation Richard “Heil Trump” Spencer (and brilliant work by Brimelow choosing that closeted fool as the head of the altright)"

    Hey - good work - you managed to work in a lie and a very typical left-wing slur all in one sentence. Spencer never said "Heil". And of course, it's a well-known cheap trick to imply that somebody's a homosexual. The left often employs it. They think it's hateful to use an epithet like "fag", and yet they love to smear rightists with the term. By the way, what tribe of people seem to produce a disproportionately large number of homosexuals?

    "I say we race realist Jews formally take this thing over.

    "It’s clear American antisemitism has failed by any standard to either reduce imaginary Jewish influence or restrict immigration, so there’s no reason why Jews shouldn’t formally junk these unpatriotic racialists."

    So Jewish influence is completely imaginary, yet you should simply join forces to crush everyone who opposes you. Why, it's almost as if that influence is not imaginary, isn't it. Yours is the same old threat we have heard for years: There is no such thing as jewish power; and if you say there is, we will crush you.
    , @Thea
    Some of us hold no animosity toward Jews but very much want to be in control of our destiny.
    , @Art
    If they want Jewish participation Richard “Heil Trump” Spencer

    Hmm - wonder how many of those Seig Heil salutes came from FBI agents?

    Peace --- Art
    , @SFG
    I say we race realist Jews formally take this thing over.

    LOL. Not gonna happen. Even guys like Stephen Miller won't admit to race realism. White nationalism is way too tied up with Nazism, and all the Tim Wises and Lena Dunhams slinging white self-hate in the MSM are going to make the Richard Spencers of the world draw the obvious conclusion.

    Look, I'd love it if the ADL and the NPI could kiss and make up and go after the Muslims and illegal Mexicans, with Talmudic ingenuity being applied to constructing arguments for citizenism, but I just don't see it happening. Heck, we've got Jewish groups making alliances with Muslim groups to defend each other from Trump, which makes me want to drink a fifth of vodka and wash it down with a bacon cheeseburger.

    Though I actually would encourage you to continue your advocacy, as any movement, however small, toward a Jewish-white gentile rapprochement would be good for the USA. Just quit talking about taking over--the neocons already did that to the old conservative movement, and they did drag us into Iraq, after all.
  135. @SFG
    Germans, Russians, Italians, Poles...all white by any standard and definitely not Anglo. Heck, calling an Irishman 'Anglo' is an insult!

    Germans, Russians, Italians, Poles…all white by any standard

    Any standard? We Americans have upped our standards. Up yours.

    “And in Europe, the Spaniards, Italians, French, Russians and Swedes, are generally of what we call a swarthy Complexion; as are the Germans also, the Saxons only excepted, who with the English, make the principal Body of White People on the Face of the Earth.” -Benjamin Franklin

    • Replies: @SFG
    You know, I'm less concerned with how quickly a group tans than whether they attack white people, have six kids out of wedlock, and ruin every neighborhood they move into.

    Besides, the Italians are responsible for most of the early phase of Western Civ. The part that wasn't done by the Greeks or Hebrews.
    , @Jefferson
    "And in Europe, the Spaniards, Italians, French, Russians and Swedes, are generally of what we call a swarthy Complexion;"

    Swedes swarthy? Hahahahaha. Can you show me these 100 percent pure unmixed Swedes who like they could be related to Italian Nicholas Turturro or Greek John Stamos or Portuguese Cristiano Ronaldo or Spaniard Javier Bardem?

    Swedes are to the Caucasoid race like what Sudanese Dinkas are to the Negroid race.

  136. @Mr. Anon
    But is "Whiskey" - that scots-irishman extrordinaire - actually scottish? Or even Irish? Especially given that he never talks about Scotland, or Ireland, or - indeed - even knows what the term "scots-irish" even means?

    In the British Isles the water of life is spelled ‘whisky’. In Kentucky ‘whiskey’. Perhaps our commenter is neither Irish nor Scottish.

    • Replies: @Mr. Anon
    In the past, he often claimed to be "scots-irish", despite not knowing what the term means (it doesn't mean "part scottish, part irish", it means "descended from Scots living in Ireland"). Morevoer he exhibits absolutely no interest in the british isles or it's descendents. I don't imagine he's from Kentucky either.
  137. Israelis and the vast majority of native born American Ashkenazi Jews will not identify with this “MENA” category for the same reason other non-Muslim Near Easterners such as Armenians, Levantine Christians, and Georgians won’t – they’ll interpret MENA to mean “Muslim”, specifically Muslim Arab.

    I’d imagine Persian Muslims would also be averse to being identified racially with lower class Arabs considering how often they insist “Persians are not Arabs”.

    • Replies: @Jefferson
    "Israelis and the vast majority of native born American Ashkenazi Jews will not identify with this “MENA” category for the same reason other non-Muslim Near Easterners such as Armenians, Levantine Christians, and Georgians won’t – they’ll interpret MENA to mean “Muslim”, specifically Muslim Arab."

    MENA does automatically conjure up images of people saying Allahu Akbar, the Disney film Aladdin, Mecca, hijabs, burqas, etc in the vast majority of people's minds. The vast majority of Non White nationalists do not think of Jews first when they think of MENAs because MENAs are overwhelmingly Non Jewish.
    , @Jefferson
    “Israelis and the vast majority of native born American Ashkenazi Jews will not identify with this “MENA” category for the same reason other non-Muslim Near Easterners such as Armenians, Levantine Christians, and Georgians won’t – they’ll interpret MENA to mean “Muslim”, specifically Muslim Arab.”

    MENA does automatically conjure up images of people saying Allahu Akbar, the Disney film Aladdin, Mecca, hijabs, burqas, The Prophet Muhammad, belly dancers, falafels, shawarmas, ISIS, Al Qaeda, camels, Lawrence Of Arabia, multi-billionaire oil sheiks, polygamy, etc in the vast majority of people’s minds and not Jerry Lewis & Rodney Dangerfield for example. The vast majority of Non White nationalists do not think of Jews first when they think of MENAs because MENAs are overwhelmingly Non Jewish.

  138. Curious to see how that would shape out with people who are part Jewish. For example, I have some relatives who are 25% Ashkenazi, 25% English-Scottish, 25% Polish, and 25% Italian….

    We usually identify as both white and Jewish like Italian Americans identify as both white and Italian. And if there was some small interest in facts on this thread, you would know from research that Ashkenazi also identify as white on the GSS. They don’t identify as white nationalists, but then you people haven’t gone out of your way to make them feel welcome now have you?

    And anyone familiar with the Northeast would know Near Eastern Christians also identify as white, so I’m not sure why you are all are speculating on a flight from whiteness that’s not going to be brought about by this nonsense tinkering at the Census bureau.

    It’s almost as if you don’t know what your talking about…

    • Replies: @Mr. Anon
    "They don’t identify as white nationalists, but then you people haven’t gone out of your way to make them feel welcome now have you?"

    Do they have to? Does everything have to be welcoming to everyone? A lot of organizations that are wholly or largely made up of Jews don't seem particularly welcoming to gentiles. A lot of whites feel the same way - that Jews haven't gone out of thier way to make whites feel welcome in the institutions where they predominate, even many of those institutions that were founded by white gentiles. One only need turn on a TV or watch a movie to get a sense of that.

    I think some of the over-the-top anti-semitism displayed by the alt-right is not the result of personal animus, but rather is the result of a simple, sober calculation: it is designed to keep Jews out, so that they don't co-opt and take over the movement (such as it is).
    , @Chrisnonymous

    We usually identify as both white and Jewish like Italian Americans identify as both white and Italian.
     
    Yes, which is why "European-American" is a bad idea. (See my comment #13 above.) "White" is nebulous and invites people like Ashkenazis and ME Christians to identify with Italians, Scots, etc on some level. But for Ashkenazis who identify more with Israel than, say, Germany, the term "European-American" invites them to think of themselves as distinct from other whites.

    BTW, if "race realist" is an accurate moniker, how do you envision it being different under the new Jewish management?
  139. @27 year old
    But anyway, I don't want to be "White" or "European-American". I'm American. Everyone else is just visiting.

    But anyway, I don’t want to be “White” or “European-American”. I’m American. Everyone else is just visiting.

    Last time I did a jury trial, I remember reviewing the jurors’ questionnaires, about 60 or 70 of them. This is an overwhelmingly white county in Texas, and the white jurors gave various answers for their race. Most said “White”, Four or five said “Anglo”, two or three said “American”, and my favorite response came from Juror No. 1, who wrote, “White American”. Made me hungry for a cheesesteak!

  140. @SFG
    Germans, Russians, Italians, Poles...all white by any standard and definitely not Anglo. Heck, calling an Irishman 'Anglo' is an insult!

    Germans, Russians, Italians, Poles…all white by any standard and definitely not Anglo. Heck, calling an Irishman ‘Anglo’ is an insult!

    Where I come from, “English” is essentially the equivalent of “gentile” or “outgroup member”.

  141. @Arclight
    Just anecdotal, but an affordable housing property I was involved with in Arizona had to conduct a survey for the federal government in which one of the items residents were asked to indicate was whether they were white, Hispanic, black, or native American. I was somewhat surprised when over half of the residents with recognizably Spanish surnames chose "white." Maybe it does have some cachet still...

    Hispanic is a category invented by the US government for the 1970 census. It covers those with origins from 23 countries (IIRC). Is it possible that the residents, aside from their self-identity, were unfamiliar with the–to them–foreign term?

  142. @syonredux

    Then why do Semites have a different j haplogroup than non middle eastern southern europeans
     
    There's more to life than the "j haplogroup ":

    I’m looking at abstracts on Ashkenazi genetics from ASHG 2013 and SMBE 2014 – by the same group, with Shai Carmi as the lead author. They did 128 whole genomes, 50x deep.

    They concluded Ashkenazi Jews were about 50% Middle Eastern and 50% European. In the 2013 abstract, they were pretty specific: they estimated the European ancestry fraction at 55% , plus or minus 2%.
     
    https://westhunt.wordpress.com/2014/06/24/ashkenazi-ancestry/

    One of the interesting consequences of the finding that Ashkenazi Jews are a bit over 50% of European ancestry is that it gives support to a claim Harpending and Cochran made in their book about the IQs of Ashkenazi Jews: namely, that their IQ was mostly selected for and increased in the last 1000 years or so, and that Jews in more ancient times weren’t so remarkable in their IQ.

    If, roughly 2000 years ago, the ancestors of Jews intermarried with Europeans at a rate of 55%, then, even if Jews, on average, were well above the European average, the new average after intermarriage would cut that advantage by a factor of 55%. Thus, if they had been 1 SD above European average before, they’d be only .45 SD above it afterwards. Basically, to reach the 1 SD average again, they’d have to go through powerful selection for IQ in the remaining 2000 years. Looked at another way, for Jews to have a 1 SD advantage after the European intermarriage episode, they would have had to have enjoyed a 2.2 SD advantage beforehand — which hardly seems consistent with the historical record.

  143. I refuse to be called a “European-American”. My ancestor left Europe for America almost 300 years ago, and signed an oath to the King. Because he didn’t want to be a European anymore.

    I also reject “Anglo”, which isn’t a word in English, but merely a prefix.

    “Anglo-American” is fine, as is the traditional “Anglo-Saxon”. But what happened to “American”?

    Never mind “native [sic] American”! That’s what our Victorian ancestors called themselves.

  144. @SFG
    Germans, Russians, Italians, Poles...all white by any standard and definitely not Anglo. Heck, calling an Irishman 'Anglo' is an insult!

    Heck, calling an Irishman ‘Anglo’ is an insult!

    Then he shouldn’t be here. Should’ve thought twice about coming over.

    Naturalizing in Canada is a thorny issue for Irishmen, because to do so one must swear an oath to Her Majesty. Many of them just mumble it.

    • Replies: @Cagey Beast
    Why do you assume all Irish are republicans or that Canadian-ness belongs to those with ancestors from England? The Irish have been a part of the Canadian project since the time of the Battle of the Plains of Abraham.
    , @Yngvar
    That oath shouldn't really be a problem since they're now Canadian. But maybe the bastards have dual loyalty!
  145. @Buzz Mohawk
    I've been calling myself European-American for a few years now, and I have commented in the past here in advocacy for this term. I don't see what the big deal is. I never thought of it as "classy," just true.

    I don't like being forced into a box any more than anybody else here, but this is what has happened to us in our own country. You see, I also consider the United States of America to be a European-American nation. It's part of the European diaspora, if you will. This is obvious, and it's only changed away from that centuries-long fact in my lifetime -- in large part because of the manipulations of non-European-Americans who now salivate as we shrink.

    One bad part of having an official category like this is said shrinkage. This will inevitably make us seem smaller and less influential in our own country.

    No doubt this will be used against us. No doubt that is the whole idea.

    Steve makes a very useful point: We will better be able to advocate for ourselves openly, to publicly express our pride, to form groups, and to insist our racial contributions be appreciated. We will have the status of a minority. This is bittersweet. Mostly bitter, as I am.

    I’ve come to the conclusion that the reason I am comfortable with a Pan-White identity is that I’m a Canadian mutt. My 8 great-grandparents were from at least 6 different countries in Europe before coming to Canada. I have no single lineage. To call myself “Irish” or “French” or “Ukrainian” or “Sicilian” would be disingenuous.

    And now “Canadian” is largely meaningless. A subject of the Commonwealth? Even more meaningless.

    However — White. Christendom. These terms still have meaning.

    In the end, it doesn’t matter if “European-American” freaks out the squares less than “White”, our enemies will still call us “Nazis.”

  146. @Reg Cæsar

    Heck, calling an Irishman ‘Anglo’ is an insult!
     
    Then he shouldn't be here. Should've thought twice about coming over.

    Naturalizing in Canada is a thorny issue for Irishmen, because to do so one must swear an oath to Her Majesty. Many of them just mumble it.

    Why do you assume all Irish are republicans or that Canadian-ness belongs to those with ancestors from England? The Irish have been a part of the Canadian project since the time of the Battle of the Plains of Abraham.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    I don't "assume". I read of it in an Irish-(North) American periodical. The article didn't claim, nor did I, that all or most Irish immigants felt this way.

    In the UK, the Irish can be the most, as well as the least, patriotic of Britons. Look at expat John Lennon vs Sir Paul McCartney. In our Civil War, the fiercest soldiers on both sides were the Scots-Irish.
  147. @anonymous
    Forget about consistency and fixed dictionary definitions. The alt-right way is to use whatever term gives us the edge at any given moment and to shape the meaning of terms in our favor. That's what other groups were doing all along.

    The left shifted from anti-racist to more honest anti-white rhetoric some years ago. We now see push-back from colorblind, individualist, liberal whites, who previously thought that they were in good standing and had a comfortable place in a multiracial utopia. These non-prole people increasingly identify as white because they are forced to do so.

    The divisive, ideological distinction between Americans and Europeans is declining. Breitbart, the #1 conservative news source does not bash Europe wholesale, takes an interest in european events and sides with the interests of indigenous Europeans. That's a stark difference to the proposition-nation, american exceptionalism, "America f*ck yeah" narrative of older conservative outlets.

    Remember that even Mark Steyn and Christopher Caldwell argued that muslim immigration only causes problems in Europe because of lack of Christianity and free market values. "America alone" would do fine because of its magic exceptionalist powers.

    Liberal SWPLs no longer enthusiastically equate Europeans with all things good and progressive. When was the last time Matt Yqlesias praised scandinavian superiority?

    Although anti-americanism is still strong among many european ethno-nationalists, the younger, more Internet savvy crowd knows better. News spreads that the US government and US foreign policy is not run by cowboys and that the deplorables on both continents have much in common.

    The current trajectory goes towards the interchangeable use of European and white, both in Europe and the USA.
    -
    Contrarian

    “The divisive, ideological distinction between Americans and Europeans is declining. Breitbart, the #1 conservative news source does not bash Europe wholesale, takes an interest in european events and sides with the interests of indigenous Europeans. That’s a stark difference to the proposition-nation, american exceptionalism, “America f*ck yeah” narrative of older conservative outlets.”

    Yes, that’s true. The anti-europeanism that was fashionable in neo-con dominated media outlets in the oughts was one of the things that turned me away from Conservatism Inc. (Freedom Fries! – what bulls**t). That outlook can now be found as much on the Democratic side now, as on the Republican, as nationalism becomes a larger force in european politics.

    And of course, it’s especially true about Russia, against which the establishment is stirring up animosity and openly referring to as “our adversary”? Huh? I don’t consider Russia to be “my adversary”. I consider it to be far less of an adversary of me than I do any number of hostile political forces in my own country.

  148. @The Undiscovered Jew
    Curious to see how that would shape out with people who are part Jewish. For example, I have some relatives who are 25% Ashkenazi, 25% English-Scottish, 25% Polish, and 25% Italian….

    We usually identify as both white and Jewish like Italian Americans identify as both white and Italian. And if there was some small interest in facts on this thread, you would know from research that Ashkenazi also identify as white on the GSS. They don't identify as white nationalists, but then you people haven't gone out of your way to make them feel welcome now have you?

    And anyone familiar with the Northeast would know Near Eastern Christians also identify as white, so I'm not sure why you are all are speculating on a flight from whiteness that's not going to be brought about by this nonsense tinkering at the Census bureau.

    It's almost as if you don't know what your talking about...

    “They don’t identify as white nationalists, but then you people haven’t gone out of your way to make them feel welcome now have you?”

    Do they have to? Does everything have to be welcoming to everyone? A lot of organizations that are wholly or largely made up of Jews don’t seem particularly welcoming to gentiles. A lot of whites feel the same way – that Jews haven’t gone out of thier way to make whites feel welcome in the institutions where they predominate, even many of those institutions that were founded by white gentiles. One only need turn on a TV or watch a movie to get a sense of that.

    I think some of the over-the-top anti-semitism displayed by the alt-right is not the result of personal animus, but rather is the result of a simple, sober calculation: it is designed to keep Jews out, so that they don’t co-opt and take over the movement (such as it is).

  149. @Uncle Remus
    In the British Isles the water of life is spelled 'whisky'. In Kentucky 'whiskey'. Perhaps our commenter is neither Irish nor Scottish.

    In the past, he often claimed to be “scots-irish”, despite not knowing what the term means (it doesn’t mean “part scottish, part irish”, it means “descended from Scots living in Ireland”). Morevoer he exhibits absolutely no interest in the british isles or it’s descendents. I don’t imagine he’s from Kentucky either.

  150. @The Undiscovered Jew
    We don’t know what different individuals will choose to do. It could be that many politically conservative Ashkenazis will identify as MENA to uphold the Jewish claim to Israel. Or it could be that liberal Ashkenazis will identify as MENA in the name of fighting white privilege. Or vice-versa. Nobody really knows as of yet.

    Jared Taylor very much wants Jews within his identity politics movement. As a certain immigrant media tycoon once remarked to a friend of mind in explaining why he subsidized neoconservative spokesmen, “To succeed in America, don’t need all the Jews in New York on your side, but you do need some.”


    So you want Jews to join the failure that is white nationalism/paleconservatism/altrightism, or whatever the hell this group of bottom feeders is called now, and identify as white when you don't consider them white?

    Of course what antisemites want is no longer relevant, but I do find it amusing how pompous you are to expect Jews which you hate to run the immigration restriction movement you failed to create.

    And congratulations to paleoconservatives and the altright, you eternal losers, on having American nationalism and immigration restriction taken over by a philo-Zionist surrounded by Jewish advisers.

    A better question for Jews is why we don't purge Unzites from race realism and take it over for ourselves?

    “A better question for Jews is why we don’t purge Unzites from race realism and take it over for ourselves?”

    Because having convinced people of the reality and importance of race, you might not be able to limit how many racial distinctions they choose to make.

    You write a screed like that, and then wonder where anti-semitism comes from. I guess that’s what is meant by the term “chutzpah”.

  151. @Mark Spahn (West Seneca, NY)
    Idea: Let's appoint a date, in the next few years, for an official end to Affirmative Action. This liberation day could be set to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juneteenth . Free at last, free at last.

    The June 2003 Supreme Court ruling upholding affirmative action in public colleges said it wouldn’t be necessary in 25 years, so June 2028 would be the Juneteenth.

  152. @Whiskey
    Zionism was in no way a Flight from White. It was if anything an embrace of Whiteness, just a Jewish one. Zionism was founded in the aftermath of the Dreyfuss Affair, when it became clear that Catholic France would not accept Jews, and neither would Hapsburg Catholic Austria, nor Orthodox Russia. That all places would at best allow Jews to be semi-serfs. It was as European as the Easter Rising, with the same aims. European nationalism.

    Golda Meir and Theodore Herzl and Ariel Sharon would have been shocked to be considered non-White.

    Spencer seems intent on merely trolling; that's not IMHO a smart move. Jews have traditionally been considered White: Judah P. Benjamin, and Disraeli come to mind. Jerry Seinfeld is not White? Patton Oswalt? Howard Stern? Sarah Michelle Gellar is not White? [Freddy Prinze Jr. is ... White. Just look at him.]

    That's my taxonomy. Looks White, is White. And I'm proud to be White. Indeed, we ought to claim it as being bad, dangerous, volatile, and potentially violent if provoked. In short, sexy chick bait. Nobody wants to be Casper Milquetoast. Tony Soprano on the other hand ...

    Or Walter White. The real actor behind him may be a clueless liberal, but the character shook many a woman's desire.

    That all places would at best allow Jews to be semi-serfs.

    As could testify Dreyfus’ (an artillery officer) fellow contemporaries Sarah Bernhardt, Emile Durkheim, Daniel Halevy, or Marcel Proust.

  153. @The Undiscovered Jew
    Kind of like the way Richard Spencer’s always making comparisons to Zionism (and shut down a liberal rabbi at Texas A&M…)

    If they want Jewish participation Richard "Heil Trump" Spencer (and brilliant work by Brimelow choosing that closeted fool as the head of the altright) and the other antisemites, including Jewish antisemites like Unz, will have to be purged. But they're already almost out in the Cold with an American nationalist administration led by a philo-Zionist aren't they?

    I say we race realist Jews formally take this thing over.

    It's clear American antisemitism has failed by any standard to either reduce imaginary Jewish influence or restrict immigration, so there's no reason why Jews shouldn't formally junk these unpatriotic racialists.

    “If they want Jewish participation Richard “Heil Trump” Spencer (and brilliant work by Brimelow choosing that closeted fool as the head of the altright)”

    Hey – good work – you managed to work in a lie and a very typical left-wing slur all in one sentence. Spencer never said “Heil”. And of course, it’s a well-known cheap trick to imply that somebody’s a homosexual. The left often employs it. They think it’s hateful to use an epithet like “fag”, and yet they love to smear rightists with the term. By the way, what tribe of people seem to produce a disproportionately large number of homosexuals?

    “I say we race realist Jews formally take this thing over.

    “It’s clear American antisemitism has failed by any standard to either reduce imaginary Jewish influence or restrict immigration, so there’s no reason why Jews shouldn’t formally junk these unpatriotic racialists.”

    So Jewish influence is completely imaginary, yet you should simply join forces to crush everyone who opposes you. Why, it’s almost as if that influence is not imaginary, isn’t it. Yours is the same old threat we have heard for years: There is no such thing as jewish power; and if you say there is, we will crush you.

  154. @The Undiscovered Jew
    Kind of like the way Richard Spencer’s always making comparisons to Zionism (and shut down a liberal rabbi at Texas A&M…)

    If they want Jewish participation Richard "Heil Trump" Spencer (and brilliant work by Brimelow choosing that closeted fool as the head of the altright) and the other antisemites, including Jewish antisemites like Unz, will have to be purged. But they're already almost out in the Cold with an American nationalist administration led by a philo-Zionist aren't they?

    I say we race realist Jews formally take this thing over.

    It's clear American antisemitism has failed by any standard to either reduce imaginary Jewish influence or restrict immigration, so there's no reason why Jews shouldn't formally junk these unpatriotic racialists.

    Some of us hold no animosity toward Jews but very much want to be in control of our destiny.

    • Agree: Bill B.
  155. @dearieme
    I know. How about separate classifications of Alpine, Nordic, Mediterranean, Dinaric, and East Baltic Europeans? That would be a step in an, ahem, interesting direction.

    Down in Latin America they refer to us as norteños and sometimes they use that (in Chile, e.g.) to refer their own countrymen extracted from that region NW of the Hajnal line. I like that term as it encompasses 100% of my ancestry.

    No, they don’t always “smile when they say that,” but that’s ok with me – can’t please them all.

    • Replies: @dearieme
    I was talking to a Palestinian once and he actually said "You blue-eyes ....". He wasn't being offensive: his manners were excellent.
  156. @anony-mouse
    Won't work. A substantial number of Europeans now aren't European. Or maybe they are. A lot of mayors of major European cities aren't European. But they were born in Europe. So that makes them...

    Dunno

    Won’t work. A substantial number of Europeans now aren’t European. Or maybe they are. A lot of mayors of major European cities aren’t European. But they were born in Europe.

    I disagree. We are talking about how people think about themselves. As long as the category is heavily white loaded most non-whites will shun it like a flea-ridden bed. (IE only if they have to.)

    They will revert.

  157. @syonredux

    So, maybe ‘Americans’ should be called United-Statesmen or United Stateseans or US-er or USian. Or Uncle Samites.
     
    Eh. People refer to Britain/the UK as England all the time.Who cares that foreigners are upset when we call ourselves Americans?

    Um… I care. Mother (very) Welsh; father (very) English.

    I don’t feel comfortable saying I am one or the other. I say British normally but yes I don’t throw a fit if someone says English.

    In the future who knows: I have been toying with the idea of going alt-Welsh (and I will feel as if I had cut off an arm).

    • Replies: @dearieme
    I like alt-Welsh. Alt-dragon, alt-leek, alt-daffodil. It has a ring to it. An alt-ring I suppose.
  158. @anonymous
    Forget about consistency and fixed dictionary definitions. The alt-right way is to use whatever term gives us the edge at any given moment and to shape the meaning of terms in our favor. That's what other groups were doing all along.

    The left shifted from anti-racist to more honest anti-white rhetoric some years ago. We now see push-back from colorblind, individualist, liberal whites, who previously thought that they were in good standing and had a comfortable place in a multiracial utopia. These non-prole people increasingly identify as white because they are forced to do so.

    The divisive, ideological distinction between Americans and Europeans is declining. Breitbart, the #1 conservative news source does not bash Europe wholesale, takes an interest in european events and sides with the interests of indigenous Europeans. That's a stark difference to the proposition-nation, american exceptionalism, "America f*ck yeah" narrative of older conservative outlets.

    Remember that even Mark Steyn and Christopher Caldwell argued that muslim immigration only causes problems in Europe because of lack of Christianity and free market values. "America alone" would do fine because of its magic exceptionalist powers.

    Liberal SWPLs no longer enthusiastically equate Europeans with all things good and progressive. When was the last time Matt Yqlesias praised scandinavian superiority?

    Although anti-americanism is still strong among many european ethno-nationalists, the younger, more Internet savvy crowd knows better. News spreads that the US government and US foreign policy is not run by cowboys and that the deplorables on both continents have much in common.

    The current trajectory goes towards the interchangeable use of European and white, both in Europe and the USA.
    -
    Contrarian

    Remember that even Mark Steyn and Christopher Caldwell argued that muslim immigration only causes problems in Europe because of lack of Christianity and free market values.

    Otherwise known as the “Daniel Hannan problem”.

  159. @The Undiscovered Jew
    Kind of like the way Richard Spencer’s always making comparisons to Zionism (and shut down a liberal rabbi at Texas A&M…)

    If they want Jewish participation Richard "Heil Trump" Spencer (and brilliant work by Brimelow choosing that closeted fool as the head of the altright) and the other antisemites, including Jewish antisemites like Unz, will have to be purged. But they're already almost out in the Cold with an American nationalist administration led by a philo-Zionist aren't they?

    I say we race realist Jews formally take this thing over.

    It's clear American antisemitism has failed by any standard to either reduce imaginary Jewish influence or restrict immigration, so there's no reason why Jews shouldn't formally junk these unpatriotic racialists.

    If they want Jewish participation Richard “Heil Trump” Spencer

    Hmm – wonder how many of those Seig Heil salutes came from FBI agents?

    Peace — Art

  160. Group X is already MENA:

  161. @anonymous
    People who aren't of European descent shouldn't be classified as such. Our crime statistics will clarify once those shady MENA types get taken out of our category and we can see how they're overrepresented in all sorts of racketeering and crime. Most of the various MENA types loathe each other. Iranians definitely don't want to be confused for Arabs, neither do Turks who often like to lead people to think they're European, Assyrians despise the surrounding Muslim populations, Lebanese Christians look westward for inspiration and abhor the Oriental Gulf Arabs, we know what the Armenians think about their Muslim neighbors, and so on. There's been a lot of bloodshed between these groups where one group gets the upper hand and tries to wipe the other out. Don't want to be white then adios, nice to have known you. The next job once the Hussein regime leaves is to get rid of the affirmative programs which have metastasized. The Euros are the brains and the backbone of the US despite the smear stereotypes of fat pillheads and yahoos. Without the Euros there's nothing, no water or electricity. This fact needs to sink in. Better fewer but better.

    Most of the various MENA types loathe each other.

    I definitely think there should be a tremendous push to get some blacks in the MENA category.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Somalis want in.
  162. @Bill B.

    Most of the various MENA types loathe each other.
     
    I definitely think there should be a tremendous push to get some blacks in the MENA category.

    Somalis want in.

  163. @another fred
    Down in Latin America they refer to us as norteños and sometimes they use that (in Chile, e.g.) to refer their own countrymen extracted from that region NW of the Hajnal line. I like that term as it encompasses 100% of my ancestry.

    No, they don't always "smile when they say that," but that's ok with me - can't please them all.

    I was talking to a Palestinian once and he actually said “You blue-eyes ….”. He wasn’t being offensive: his manners were excellent.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    I use blue for whites in graphs I creat.
  164. @Bill B.
    Um... I care. Mother (very) Welsh; father (very) English.

    I don't feel comfortable saying I am one or the other. I say British normally but yes I don't throw a fit if someone says English.

    In the future who knows: I have been toying with the idea of going alt-Welsh (and I will feel as if I had cut off an arm).

    I like alt-Welsh. Alt-dragon, alt-leek, alt-daffodil. It has a ring to it. An alt-ring I suppose.

  165. @dearieme
    I was talking to a Palestinian once and he actually said "You blue-eyes ....". He wasn't being offensive: his manners were excellent.

    I use blue for whites in graphs I creat.

  166. @Anatoly Karlin
    Here's a Syrian glass artist from /r/The_Donald

    https://www.reddit.com/r/The_Donald/comments/57ua2t/im_a_syrian_glass_artist_heres_a_little_pepe_i/

    She certainly looks White.

    a lot of christian Syrians are pretty much white, we're the remnants of the crusades
     
    Perhaps under the Trumpist junta we could make a rule that MENA + Christian = European-American, MENA + Muslim = MENA.

    She writes her father’s Irish, her mother of Syrian descent which might explain her rather striking phenotype.
    But in general Mideast Christians are probably ok (and they’re one of the few groups of refugees I actually have some sympathy for since they’re really persecuted and don’t have much of a future in the Mideast). Muslims aren’t.

    • Replies: @The Last Real Calvinist

    But in general Mideast Christians are probably ok (and they’re one of the few groups of refugees I actually have some sympathy for since they’re really persecuted and don’t have much of a future in the Mideast).

     

    This, to me, is the greatest tragedy in our current geopolitical mess. Even the Christian churches of the USA and Europe largely ignore the fact that their ostensible brothers and sisters in Christ are being systematically and cruelly persecuted in the many lands, but they still promote admitting Muslims as 'refugees' by ridiculous margins. In the USA, it seems there is a concerted effort to keep out Christians refugees, e.g. nearly all of the Syrians being admitted are Muslim. I recall Obama screeching about prioritizing Christian refugees as 'shameful', and so far as I can see his view has prevailed. This is one area Trump could call for an immediate, radical change in US policy, and do some real good.

    In fairness, I don't know how hard it would be to sort out the Christians from the Muslims in refugee camps and elsewhere, but I can't see much evidence that's it's even being attempted. And is there a single western government that is actually giving Christian refugees priority, since their persecution on straightforward religious grounds would seem to be the textbook qualification for refugee status?
  167. @Cagey Beast
    A person is only "White" when some other race is somewhere close by; in the same way that a person is only a "pedestrian" when a vehicle is around or could be around soon. I remember not being White but am more and more often White, even though I'm still in the same city I grew up in.

    Maybe that's one reason why "White" is considered declassé? If you find yourself in a situation where you're White, someone messed up but if you're just happily European then everything's still fine? People in Europe sure as hell resent finding out they're now White without leaving home. It's like suddenly finding out you're a pedestrian because a car just hit you while you thought you were just someone walking around.

    The term “African-American” is used as if it refers to an Exalted Being. The term “whites” is used as if it refers to dirt.

  168. Do they have to? Does everything have to be welcoming to everyone? A lot of organizations that are wholly or largely made up of Jews don’t seem particularly welcoming to gentiles.

    Your sort keep insisting Jews are traitors for not supporting white nationalism and then define them as non-white. Either accept them as white or drop the ridiculous demand they endorse your irrelevant movement which has zero chance of gaining political traction.

    So Jewish influence is completely imaginary, yet you should simply join forces to crush everyone who opposes you.

    It does appear to be a bit exaggerated, Soros is a gentile since he served in the Judenrat and described his time collaborating with Nazis as the happiest time in his life.

    By the way, what tribe of people seem to produce a disproportionately large number of homosexuals?

    Spencer is spending lots of time with an openly gay man. Don’t be surprised if homosexuality isn’t the next media debacle he gets his fool self into.

    As for Jews, I’m not sure if Jews are more likely to be homosexual or if they’re just able to openly identify as such in their community than others.

    Yours is the same old threat we have heard for years: There is no such thing as jewish power; and if you say there is, we will crush you.

    Yours is the same in that you can’t take a joke, although you are kind of using Jewish over representation to ignore the fact gentiles are doing the same thing Jews are. You don’t have a good handle on facts and you can’t take a joke, always the perpetual losers.

  169. Some of us hold no animosity toward Jews but very much want to be in control of our destiny.

    Good luck with that with the most pro-Zionist administration in history and most nationalistic admin of modern times about to assume power.

    And Neocon Bolton was just named Deputy Secretary of State — Great work tearing down on Jewish influence you total failures.

    • Troll: Amasius, Clyde
  170. but rather is the result of a simple, sober calculation: it is designed to keep Jews out, so that they don’t co-opt and take over the movement (such as it is).

    And by their own standard the altright has failed to keep Jews out – Trump won’t be able to walk down a hall in the White House without running int a ((())).

    There’s (((Mnuchin))), (((Stephen Miller))), (((Ivanka))), (((Jared))), (((Cohn))), (((Boris Ephstyn))), (((Kudlow))) and many more sure to come.

    And now Bolton is the #2 at State.

    And you want Jews to seriously listen to your demands when you can’t even keep Jews from taking over nationalism and we already have big foothold in race realism?

    • Replies: @Clyde

    And now Bolton is the #2 at State.
     
    First I have heard. I have read his articles the last few years and he is not the interventionist neo-con he used to be. He knows that DJT is not an interventionist and not the way crazy Hillary would have been.
    , @SFG
    Trump isn't alt-right--Anglin and Co. will tell you that. He has some things in common with them. Their hope is if he's successful he'll lay the groundwork for a future white nationalist candidate.

    I think the alt-right has done a damn good job of keeping Jews out of their movement, at least now that it's clear alt-right=white gentile nationalist (with some earlier incarnations like the Dark Enlightenment and neoreaction this was less clear). Whether this is actually good for the movement is another story.
  171. Because having convinced people of the reality and importance of race, you might not be able to limit how many racial distinctions they choose to make.

    But it’s not a racial difference.

    The Jews are white because the altright needs to keep referring to Wikipedia to find out if someone in the news is Jewish (Btw, Lady de Rothschild is an Anglo-Saxon).

    If Jews weren’t white you would be as able to tell them apart from other white Americans as you can Indians. But since you can’t (the fact Stephen Miller is Jewish came as a surprise to many of his alt-right fans), they are white.

    • Replies: @Amasius

    But it’s not a racial difference.

     


    If Jews weren’t white you would be as able to tell them apart from other white Americans as you can Indians. But since you can’t (the fact Stephen Miller is Jewish came as a surprise to many of his alt-right fans), they are white.
     
    What idiocy. Being able to pass as something doesn't mean you are that thing. I had a Russian guy ask me if I was Polish once because apparently I have a somewhat Polish look, even though I don't have a drop of Polish blood. If I learned the language and mastered the accent I could probably "pass" as Polish, but that wouldn't make me Polish.

    http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/ashkenazi-jews-are-not-white-response-to-haaretz-article/

    Jews are not White. White is European and European is White. Ashkenazi jews are Semites from the middle east with 20-30% European admixture per Nicholas Wade.
    , @Anon

    But since you can’t (the fact Stephen Miller is Jewish came as a surprise to many of his alt-right fans), they are white.
     
    Is this hubris, wishful thinking, or ignorance? Jewish phenotypes repeat regularly enough that anyone paying attention can distinguish them. With exceptions of course, but jewdar is a thing.
  172. European American sounds good and useful and it has a plus of being abbreviated to Euro-American. How about E-American after Euro-America sinks in long enough?

    • Replies: @Chrisnonymous
    E-American is being reserved for the AIs.
  173. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    “Ashkenazis, who have typically been in Europe for a couple of thousand years and are, according to recent genome studies, on average slightly more European than MENA by descent. ”

    Those European Jews are supposedly all descendants of five Jewish men living in Rome during the time of the Caesars who married goy women.

    Roman Jews by their own definition are neither Sephardic of Ashkenazi.

  174. @The Undiscovered Jew
    Because having convinced people of the reality and importance of race, you might not be able to limit how many racial distinctions they choose to make.

    But it's not a racial difference.

    The Jews are white because the altright needs to keep referring to Wikipedia to find out if someone in the news is Jewish (Btw, Lady de Rothschild is an Anglo-Saxon).

    If Jews weren't white you would be as able to tell them apart from other white Americans as you can Indians. But since you can't (the fact Stephen Miller is Jewish came as a surprise to many of his alt-right fans), they are white.

    But it’s not a racial difference.

    If Jews weren’t white you would be as able to tell them apart from other white Americans as you can Indians. But since you can’t (the fact Stephen Miller is Jewish came as a surprise to many of his alt-right fans), they are white.

    What idiocy. Being able to pass as something doesn’t mean you are that thing. I had a Russian guy ask me if I was Polish once because apparently I have a somewhat Polish look, even though I don’t have a drop of Polish blood. If I learned the language and mastered the accent I could probably “pass” as Polish, but that wouldn’t make me Polish.

    http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/ashkenazi-jews-are-not-white-response-to-haaretz-article/

    Jews are not White. White is European and European is White. Ashkenazi jews are Semites from the middle east with 20-30% European admixture per Nicholas Wade.

  175. @The Undiscovered Jew
    but rather is the result of a simple, sober calculation: it is designed to keep Jews out, so that they don’t co-opt and take over the movement (such as it is).

    And by their own standard the altright has failed to keep Jews out - Trump won't be able to walk down a hall in the White House without running int a ((())).

    There's (((Mnuchin))), (((Stephen Miller))), (((Ivanka))), (((Jared))), (((Cohn))), (((Boris Ephstyn))), (((Kudlow))) and many more sure to come.

    And now Bolton is the #2 at State.

    And you want Jews to seriously listen to your demands when you can't even keep Jews from taking over nationalism and we already have big foothold in race realism?

    And now Bolton is the #2 at State.

    First I have heard. I have read his articles the last few years and he is not the interventionist neo-con he used to be. He knows that DJT is not an interventionist and not the way crazy Hillary would have been.

    • Replies: @Chrisnonymous
    I haven't paid attention to Bolton in a while. I had always thought his main schtick was anti-UN, but when I saw him live on an NR cruise, he did seem to have a touch of the Yosemite Sam about him. If he's not so Neo now, how would you explain him?
  176. A European-American identity movement with heavy Jewish leadership might become an accepted player on the identity politics scene.

    Then we’ll have been taken for a ride.

  177. @Amasius
    Is Jennifer Beals White? Looks pretty White. Is Tommy Chong White? Looks pretty White.

    I just can't believe we're going to simply wing it and go by looks alone. What about reality? Isn't this a detail-oriented community?

    Is Jennifer Beals White? Looks pretty White. Is Tommy Chong White? Looks pretty White.

    She looks a bit Indian and she is per wikipedia

    • Replies: @Amasius
    I agree. My point was that race is more than skin deep. Jennifer Beals is half black,

    http://ethnicelebs.com/jennifer-beals

    but I was rather surprised when I found out; I think she could pass as Spanish or Italian. There's this prevalent idea that passing is the same thing as being, i.e. Jared Taylor's "jews look hwyte to me" argument.

    As far as Tommy Chong goes, I assumed it was a stage name. I don't think I found out he was in fact half Han Chinese until he was on Dancing with the Stars and he said so. He looks more like George Carlin than Xi Jinping.
  178. @The Undiscovered Jew
    Curious to see how that would shape out with people who are part Jewish. For example, I have some relatives who are 25% Ashkenazi, 25% English-Scottish, 25% Polish, and 25% Italian….

    We usually identify as both white and Jewish like Italian Americans identify as both white and Italian. And if there was some small interest in facts on this thread, you would know from research that Ashkenazi also identify as white on the GSS. They don't identify as white nationalists, but then you people haven't gone out of your way to make them feel welcome now have you?

    And anyone familiar with the Northeast would know Near Eastern Christians also identify as white, so I'm not sure why you are all are speculating on a flight from whiteness that's not going to be brought about by this nonsense tinkering at the Census bureau.

    It's almost as if you don't know what your talking about...

    We usually identify as both white and Jewish like Italian Americans identify as both white and Italian.

    Yes, which is why “European-American” is a bad idea. (See my comment #13 above.) “White” is nebulous and invites people like Ashkenazis and ME Christians to identify with Italians, Scots, etc on some level. But for Ashkenazis who identify more with Israel than, say, Germany, the term “European-American” invites them to think of themselves as distinct from other whites.

    BTW, if “race realist” is an accurate moniker, how do you envision it being different under the new Jewish management?

  179. @Clyde
    European American sounds good and useful and it has a plus of being abbreviated to Euro-American. How about E-American after Euro-America sinks in long enough?

    E-American is being reserved for the AIs.

  180. @Clyde

    And now Bolton is the #2 at State.
     
    First I have heard. I have read his articles the last few years and he is not the interventionist neo-con he used to be. He knows that DJT is not an interventionist and not the way crazy Hillary would have been.

    I haven’t paid attention to Bolton in a while. I had always thought his main schtick was anti-UN, but when I saw him live on an NR cruise, he did seem to have a touch of the Yosemite Sam about him. If he’s not so Neo now, how would you explain him?

    • Replies: @Clyde
    Here is something good on John Bolton. How he was not involved in planning and promoting the Iraq war. He was frozen out by Sec Colin Powell.
    http://www.breitbart.com/national-security/2016/11/22/truth-john-bolton-iraq-war-wmd-diplomacy/
    , @Clyde
    More:
    According to Bolton, Putin views Obama "quite correctly" as an "exceedingly weak leader."

    "I think Trump is going to be the opposite. I think he's going to be a strong leader," Bolton continued. "I think that will have two dramatic impacts on Putin. Number one, it'll make him a lot more hesitant to try and extend Russian influence, and two, what may seem paradoxical but what I think is true, it'll make Putin more inclined to cooperate, because he'll believe that if he makes a deal with another strong leader, they both will stick to it."

    Bolton said he would be "honored" to serve as the country's chief diplomat should Trump appoint him, but that he and the president-elect had not discussed any position in his administration.
    http://www.newsmax.com/Headline/john-bolton-russia-barack-obama-donald-trump/2016/11/15/id/759009/
  181. @Anon
    Shouldn't the term 'American' be rejected for citizen of United States.

    After all, Canada and Mexico are also part of North America. And there is Central America and South America.

    Who are arrogant 'yanquis' to hog the title of 'American', when Amerigo wasn't even Anglo and had nothing to do with the founding of the US?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amerigo_Vespucci

    So, maybe 'Americans' should be called United-Statesmen or United Stateseans or US-er or USian. Or Uncle Samites.

    That would make it European-United-Statesmen, European-United-Stateseans, European USians or European-US-er, or European Uncle-Samites.

    Or USers. Like in TRON LEGACY. We are certainly USED by Globalism.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DkTb7Pe2MtY

    Amerigo is a myth sponsored by the colonial revolutionaries. The name is derived from Richard Ameryk (a corruption of Welsh Ap Meurig) who paid for the expedition of John Cabot who discovered America and named it after his sponsor. The promotion of Colombus as discoverer by the revolutionaries is an attempt to undermine British claims to the continent.

    The correct term for the colonial ruling class is Englishmen Gone Wrong.

    • Replies: @Anon
    "The name is derived from Richard Ameryk (a corruption of Welsh Ap Meurig)"

    As MLK is the 'new founding father' and Hamilton is rapping Negro, you think maybe America should be called Ay-muh-dic*.
  182. @(((Owen)))
    The only people left in America for whom the white identity is still desirable are Latinxs and Asian women.

    Whiteness is still implicitly upscale to Latin Americans in Latin America and the cathedral has failed to extinguish that idea among Latinx people in the USA. They try with affirmative action jobs, preferential university admissions, special welfare for identity advocacy groups, and more. But the only ones are convinced are the very, very white Conquistador-Americans that identify as brown so they can take credit for leading the people that want to be white.

    Perceived leadership of a minority groups creates really powerful low responsibility jobs for educated minorities that are completely white on the inside. It's the grotesque tribute multiculturalism pays to Anglo culture.

    Very perceptive and original. Though Jorge Ramos as the Mestizos_in_America’s Moses makes me laugh at the disconnect. But then we have a half-Kenyan/zero slave blood/ mulatto that American blacks have taken as their leader. They registered to vote and turned out in droves to vote Obama but turned their backs on non-charismatic, old white lady Hillary.

  183. @dearieme
    "Amerigo wasn’t even Anglo": quite. But Scottish or Welsh perhaps.

    See my comment about Richard Ameryk.

    Amerigo Vespucci was an Italian mapmaker who first mapped large parts of South America in particular. The US colonies claim that the two continents were named after him as his name was on the maps.

  184. @Chrisnonymous
    I haven't paid attention to Bolton in a while. I had always thought his main schtick was anti-UN, but when I saw him live on an NR cruise, he did seem to have a touch of the Yosemite Sam about him. If he's not so Neo now, how would you explain him?

    Here is something good on John Bolton. How he was not involved in planning and promoting the Iraq war. He was frozen out by Sec Colin Powell.
    http://www.breitbart.com/national-security/2016/11/22/truth-john-bolton-iraq-war-wmd-diplomacy/

  185. @Chrisnonymous
    I haven't paid attention to Bolton in a while. I had always thought his main schtick was anti-UN, but when I saw him live on an NR cruise, he did seem to have a touch of the Yosemite Sam about him. If he's not so Neo now, how would you explain him?

    More:
    According to Bolton, Putin views Obama “quite correctly” as an “exceedingly weak leader.”

    “I think Trump is going to be the opposite. I think he’s going to be a strong leader,” Bolton continued. “I think that will have two dramatic impacts on Putin. Number one, it’ll make him a lot more hesitant to try and extend Russian influence, and two, what may seem paradoxical but what I think is true, it’ll make Putin more inclined to cooperate, because he’ll believe that if he makes a deal with another strong leader, they both will stick to it.”

    Bolton said he would be “honored” to serve as the country’s chief diplomat should Trump appoint him, but that he and the president-elect had not discussed any position in his administration.
    http://www.newsmax.com/Headline/john-bolton-russia-barack-obama-donald-trump/2016/11/15/id/759009/

  186. @G Pinfold
    OK for eastern Europe, but it doesn't scale for Africa. They're pretty much all Christians south of Uganda.

    OK for eastern Europe, but it doesn’t scale for Africa. They’re pretty much all Christians south of Uganda.

    Sorry, I wasn’t clear: by ‘Christendom’, I don’t mean The Church, i.e. all Christians on earth. To me, Christendom = historically Christian lands, all in Europe or in the close-to-Europe middle East or north Africa, whose borders were threatened and/or breached by Islam.

    In the strictest sense, actually, Christendom refers to European state-sponsored Christianity. For example, when Kierkegaard wrote his Attack on Christendom, I don’t think he really had the Copts and Syrian Orthodox in mind.

    This is why SJWs and other Christian-despising leftists get a bit confused and glance around uncomfortably when you start bringing up Islamic oppression of African Christians, and even Syrian and other middle-Eastern ones, and why the classification of ethnicities such as Armenians is fraught for them. Lefties don’t want to deal with ambiguity when separating the Who from the Whom.

    • Replies: @Desiderius

    Sorry, I wasn’t clear: by ‘Christendom’, I don’t mean The Church, i.e. all Christians on earth. To me, Christendom = historically Christian lands, all in Europe or in the close-to-Europe middle East or north Africa, whose borders were threatened and/or breached by Islam.
     
    Pretty sure it means all lands dominated by Christ. The original plan was that all knees shall bend and all heads shall bow to the King of Kings, not just European ones. I'm unaware that that plan has been amended by any legitimate authority.

    The past is important to Christianity, but so is the present and, especially, the future. Alpha and omega.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P-IAUpNFoaQ
  187. @Clyde

    Is Jennifer Beals White? Looks pretty White. Is Tommy Chong White? Looks pretty White.
     
    She looks a bit Indian and she is per wikipedia

    I agree. My point was that race is more than skin deep. Jennifer Beals is half black,

    http://ethnicelebs.com/jennifer-beals

    but I was rather surprised when I found out; I think she could pass as Spanish or Italian. There’s this prevalent idea that passing is the same thing as being, i.e. Jared Taylor’s “jews look hwyte to me” argument.

    As far as Tommy Chong goes, I assumed it was a stage name. I don’t think I found out he was in fact half Han Chinese until he was on Dancing with the Stars and he said so. He looks more like George Carlin than Xi Jinping.

    • Replies: @SFG
    There’s this prevalent idea that passing is the same thing as being, i.e. Jared Taylor’s “jews look hwyte to me” argument.

    Depends on your goals. If you want a lineally pure ethnostate a la Spencer (or many Israelis), no. Most people are less concerned with racial purity than racial conflict--lots of whites have no problem mixing with Chinese- or Korean-Americans, who are definitely not white. If Jews weren't addicted to left-wing politics, nobody would care who was a quarter Jewish.

    Taylor may have his own reasons--he was pretty friendly with Paul Gottfried and Larry Auster, if I remember right. Or he might have seen the Nazis as a negative example--Hitler got his country cut in half, ended Germany's preeminence in the sciences, removed any German national pride for decades, made the Germans among the least popular ethnicities in Europe, and made the idea of white racial interests illegitimate for a similar period.
    , @ggs
    If you have a white ethnostate that where the average ancestry is mulatto, octoroon, turanid, multiracial or whatever, then what is the point, and as for citizenism, why is neoreactionism or absolute monarchy or socialism objectively worse than free market capitalism, after the nobility during the middle ages did not come out of the earth and if you trace their bloodlines long enough enough they all come from either merchants or poor freedmen who moved up the social ladder by either performing some valuable service to their lord and becoming a squire, or marrying into an existing lower nobility family and moving up from there, so in terms of social mobility the middle ages were hardly static, plus there was technological advancement as well, such as the development of plate armour, round castle walls to deflect arrow rounds, the crossbow, and the development of firearms, and improving building techniques.
    , @Jefferson
    "but I was rather surprised when I found out; I think she could pass as Spanish or Italian. There’s this prevalent idea that passing is the same thing as being, i.e. Jared Taylor’s “jews look hwyte to me” argument."

    If a person can look White and not be White, can a person look Black and not be Black?
  188. @German_reader
    She writes her father's Irish, her mother of Syrian descent which might explain her rather striking phenotype.
    But in general Mideast Christians are probably ok (and they're one of the few groups of refugees I actually have some sympathy for since they're really persecuted and don't have much of a future in the Mideast). Muslims aren't.

    But in general Mideast Christians are probably ok (and they’re one of the few groups of refugees I actually have some sympathy for since they’re really persecuted and don’t have much of a future in the Mideast).

    This, to me, is the greatest tragedy in our current geopolitical mess. Even the Christian churches of the USA and Europe largely ignore the fact that their ostensible brothers and sisters in Christ are being systematically and cruelly persecuted in the many lands, but they still promote admitting Muslims as ‘refugees’ by ridiculous margins. In the USA, it seems there is a concerted effort to keep out Christians refugees, e.g. nearly all of the Syrians being admitted are Muslim. I recall Obama screeching about prioritizing Christian refugees as ‘shameful’, and so far as I can see his view has prevailed. This is one area Trump could call for an immediate, radical change in US policy, and do some real good.

    In fairness, I don’t know how hard it would be to sort out the Christians from the Muslims in refugee camps and elsewhere, but I can’t see much evidence that’s it’s even being attempted. And is there a single western government that is actually giving Christian refugees priority, since their persecution on straightforward religious grounds would seem to be the textbook qualification for refugee status?

    • Replies: @German_reader
    I agree (and I'm fairly godless myself, my view of Christianity is ambivalent at best), the extinction of Mideast Christianity is one of the great tragedies of our time (same also applies to obscure sects like the Mandaeans who have even less of a lobby). It's actually one of the few cases where I'd say granting refugee status is justified. The attitude of Western Christians is shameful and deluded. Here in Germany the churches regard it as their main mission to promote a positive view of Islam, they're even actively attempting to downplay reports about Christian refugees being harassed in asylum centres by Muslim "refugees". It's all pretty contemptible.
    , @Johann Ricke

    In fairness, I don’t know how hard it would be to sort out the Christians from the Muslims in refugee camps
     
    That's fairly simple. Make them swear that they are Christians, and that if they are currently Muslim, that they renounce Islam. The second part constitutes apostasy. No Muslim would say it for fear of hellfire in the afterlife. The hard part is overcoming the howls of outrage coming from the media (and RINOs) at such a requirement.
  189. @The Last Real Calvinist

    But in general Mideast Christians are probably ok (and they’re one of the few groups of refugees I actually have some sympathy for since they’re really persecuted and don’t have much of a future in the Mideast).

     

    This, to me, is the greatest tragedy in our current geopolitical mess. Even the Christian churches of the USA and Europe largely ignore the fact that their ostensible brothers and sisters in Christ are being systematically and cruelly persecuted in the many lands, but they still promote admitting Muslims as 'refugees' by ridiculous margins. In the USA, it seems there is a concerted effort to keep out Christians refugees, e.g. nearly all of the Syrians being admitted are Muslim. I recall Obama screeching about prioritizing Christian refugees as 'shameful', and so far as I can see his view has prevailed. This is one area Trump could call for an immediate, radical change in US policy, and do some real good.

    In fairness, I don't know how hard it would be to sort out the Christians from the Muslims in refugee camps and elsewhere, but I can't see much evidence that's it's even being attempted. And is there a single western government that is actually giving Christian refugees priority, since their persecution on straightforward religious grounds would seem to be the textbook qualification for refugee status?

    I agree (and I’m fairly godless myself, my view of Christianity is ambivalent at best), the extinction of Mideast Christianity is one of the great tragedies of our time (same also applies to obscure sects like the Mandaeans who have even less of a lobby). It’s actually one of the few cases where I’d say granting refugee status is justified. The attitude of Western Christians is shameful and deluded. Here in Germany the churches regard it as their main mission to promote a positive view of Islam, they’re even actively attempting to downplay reports about Christian refugees being harassed in asylum centres by Muslim “refugees”. It’s all pretty contemptible.

    • Replies: @krakonos
    Not everywhere yet. I vaguely remember a radio interview with a high ranking catholic official (maybe cardinal Dominik Duka but my miserable memory could have failed me here) and he was actually quite concerned about fate of ME christians (all denominations) and open about negative aspects of islam. What hit me was his intellect, erudition and rhetorical abilities. Especially compared to other interviewed - polotician (and broadly all politicians).
    There is some rumor that our catholic establishment is not happy about contemporary pope Francis.

    On the other hand catholic church is mostly irrelevant - in one of the most atheist countries in the world.
  190. europa = piece of Christian land(metageography)
    The race is Caucasian, and the Caucasian race is sub-divided in many others like, Mediterranean, Teutonic, Alpine etc
    Whoever deny this is a complete idiot with shame of own race

  191. @anony-mouse
    Won't work. A substantial number of Europeans now aren't European. Or maybe they are. A lot of mayors of major European cities aren't European. But they were born in Europe. So that makes them...

    Dunno

    Won’t work. A substantial number of Europeans now aren’t European.

    Europe is just a geographical expression.

  192. @John Chard
    Lawrence Murray coined the neologism "Anglo-American" to refer to white Americans in a more formal and respectful fashion. I quite like it, personally, though unfortunately it doesn't seem to have caught on much.

    Lawrence Murray coined the neologism “Anglo-American” to refer to white Americans in a more formal and respectful fashion.

    Anglo-Celt enjoyed a bit of a vogue in Australia a few decades back.

  193. Anon • Disclaimer says:
    @The Undiscovered Jew
    Because having convinced people of the reality and importance of race, you might not be able to limit how many racial distinctions they choose to make.

    But it's not a racial difference.

    The Jews are white because the altright needs to keep referring to Wikipedia to find out if someone in the news is Jewish (Btw, Lady de Rothschild is an Anglo-Saxon).

    If Jews weren't white you would be as able to tell them apart from other white Americans as you can Indians. But since you can't (the fact Stephen Miller is Jewish came as a surprise to many of his alt-right fans), they are white.

    But since you can’t (the fact Stephen Miller is Jewish came as a surprise to many of his alt-right fans), they are white.

    Is this hubris, wishful thinking, or ignorance? Jewish phenotypes repeat regularly enough that anyone paying attention can distinguish them. With exceptions of course, but jewdar is a thing.

    • Replies: @SFG
    You could probably do the same with Irish or German ancestry (Germans tend to have very boxy heads), for example.
    , @Jefferson
    "Is this hubris, wishful thinking, or ignorance? Jewish phenotypes repeat regularly enough that anyone paying attention can distinguish them. With exceptions of course, but jewdar is a thing."

    You are saying Jews are not White because on average they don't look like Nordic Scandinavians than you can apply that Nonwhite label to most Southern Europeans and a significant minority of Slavs, especially the Charles Bronson looking Slavs. I remember Steven Crowder joked that Charles Bronson's high cheekbones, mustache, and almond shaped eyes make him look Mexican.

  194. @Philip Owen
    Amerigo is a myth sponsored by the colonial revolutionaries. The name is derived from Richard Ameryk (a corruption of Welsh Ap Meurig) who paid for the expedition of John Cabot who discovered America and named it after his sponsor. The promotion of Colombus as discoverer by the revolutionaries is an attempt to undermine British claims to the continent.

    The correct term for the colonial ruling class is Englishmen Gone Wrong.

    “The name is derived from Richard Ameryk (a corruption of Welsh Ap Meurig)”

    As MLK is the ‘new founding father’ and Hamilton is rapping Negro, you think maybe America should be called Ay-muh-dic*.

  195. @(((Owen)))

    Germans, Russians, Italians, Poles…all white by any standard
     
    Any standard? We Americans have upped our standards. Up yours.

    "And in Europe, the Spaniards, Italians, French, Russians and Swedes, are generally of what we call a swarthy Complexion; as are the Germans also, the Saxons only excepted, who with the English, make the principal Body of White People on the Face of the Earth." -Benjamin Franklin

    You know, I’m less concerned with how quickly a group tans than whether they attack white people, have six kids out of wedlock, and ruin every neighborhood they move into.

    Besides, the Italians are responsible for most of the early phase of Western Civ. The part that wasn’t done by the Greeks or Hebrews.

  196. @Anon

    But since you can’t (the fact Stephen Miller is Jewish came as a surprise to many of his alt-right fans), they are white.
     
    Is this hubris, wishful thinking, or ignorance? Jewish phenotypes repeat regularly enough that anyone paying attention can distinguish them. With exceptions of course, but jewdar is a thing.

    You could probably do the same with Irish or German ancestry (Germans tend to have very boxy heads), for example.

    • Replies: @Flip
    Germans (and the Dutch, who are also racially German) have big heads and fat faces.
  197. @Amasius
    I agree. My point was that race is more than skin deep. Jennifer Beals is half black,

    http://ethnicelebs.com/jennifer-beals

    but I was rather surprised when I found out; I think she could pass as Spanish or Italian. There's this prevalent idea that passing is the same thing as being, i.e. Jared Taylor's "jews look hwyte to me" argument.

    As far as Tommy Chong goes, I assumed it was a stage name. I don't think I found out he was in fact half Han Chinese until he was on Dancing with the Stars and he said so. He looks more like George Carlin than Xi Jinping.

    There’s this prevalent idea that passing is the same thing as being, i.e. Jared Taylor’s “jews look hwyte to me” argument.

    Depends on your goals. If you want a lineally pure ethnostate a la Spencer (or many Israelis), no. Most people are less concerned with racial purity than racial conflict–lots of whites have no problem mixing with Chinese- or Korean-Americans, who are definitely not white. If Jews weren’t addicted to left-wing politics, nobody would care who was a quarter Jewish.

    Taylor may have his own reasons–he was pretty friendly with Paul Gottfried and Larry Auster, if I remember right. Or he might have seen the Nazis as a negative example–Hitler got his country cut in half, ended Germany’s preeminence in the sciences, removed any German national pride for decades, made the Germans among the least popular ethnicities in Europe, and made the idea of white racial interests illegitimate for a similar period.

    • Replies: @Jefferson
    "–lots of whites have no problem mixing with Chinese- or Korean-Americans,"

    White romantic interest in Chinese and Koreans overwhelmingly comes from men. The vast majority of White women have zero interest in Chinese men and Korean men.

    Most White women are not even interested in a romantic relationship with Mestizo men and Mestizo men have way more Caucasoid admixture than Korean men and Chinese men.

    And by Mestizo men I mean the ones who's Amerindian features are so strong that they can't even pass for a swarthy Spaniard like Antonio Banderas. I am talking about Mestizo men who would be mistaking for Native Americans at an Indian casino.

  198. @The Undiscovered Jew
    but rather is the result of a simple, sober calculation: it is designed to keep Jews out, so that they don’t co-opt and take over the movement (such as it is).

    And by their own standard the altright has failed to keep Jews out - Trump won't be able to walk down a hall in the White House without running int a ((())).

    There's (((Mnuchin))), (((Stephen Miller))), (((Ivanka))), (((Jared))), (((Cohn))), (((Boris Ephstyn))), (((Kudlow))) and many more sure to come.

    And now Bolton is the #2 at State.

    And you want Jews to seriously listen to your demands when you can't even keep Jews from taking over nationalism and we already have big foothold in race realism?

    Trump isn’t alt-right–Anglin and Co. will tell you that. He has some things in common with them. Their hope is if he’s successful he’ll lay the groundwork for a future white nationalist candidate.

    I think the alt-right has done a damn good job of keeping Jews out of their movement, at least now that it’s clear alt-right=white gentile nationalist (with some earlier incarnations like the Dark Enlightenment and neoreaction this was less clear). Whether this is actually good for the movement is another story.

  199. @The Undiscovered Jew
    Kind of like the way Richard Spencer’s always making comparisons to Zionism (and shut down a liberal rabbi at Texas A&M…)

    If they want Jewish participation Richard "Heil Trump" Spencer (and brilliant work by Brimelow choosing that closeted fool as the head of the altright) and the other antisemites, including Jewish antisemites like Unz, will have to be purged. But they're already almost out in the Cold with an American nationalist administration led by a philo-Zionist aren't they?

    I say we race realist Jews formally take this thing over.

    It's clear American antisemitism has failed by any standard to either reduce imaginary Jewish influence or restrict immigration, so there's no reason why Jews shouldn't formally junk these unpatriotic racialists.

    I say we race realist Jews formally take this thing over.

    LOL. Not gonna happen. Even guys like Stephen Miller won’t admit to race realism. White nationalism is way too tied up with Nazism, and all the Tim Wises and Lena Dunhams slinging white self-hate in the MSM are going to make the Richard Spencers of the world draw the obvious conclusion.

    Look, I’d love it if the ADL and the NPI could kiss and make up and go after the Muslims and illegal Mexicans, with Talmudic ingenuity being applied to constructing arguments for citizenism, but I just don’t see it happening. Heck, we’ve got Jewish groups making alliances with Muslim groups to defend each other from Trump, which makes me want to drink a fifth of vodka and wash it down with a bacon cheeseburger.

    Though I actually would encourage you to continue your advocacy, as any movement, however small, toward a Jewish-white gentile rapprochement would be good for the USA. Just quit talking about taking over–the neocons already did that to the old conservative movement, and they did drag us into Iraq, after all.

  200. @Chrisnonymous
    Many issues around this.

    Jews will have to choose.
    Can a secular Jew whose family was in Germany for many generations reasonably identify as MENA? Maybe not, but...
    I know a Mexican-Ashkenazi mixed guy who's been to Israel but doesn't otherwise know much about his non-Mexican heritage. Any chance he would continue to identify as half my co-ethnic (ie, half-white) under the new system? Not much chance, I think.
    Ditto Chinese-Ashkenazi mixed. Once some Jews go in the MENA category, any Jew who isn't self-consciously European-American will not self-identify as having any racial/ethnic connection to the US founding stock (vis-a-vis "whiteness").

    "European" doesn't mean the same thing to most people that it means to iSteve readers.
    When I hear "Euro-", I associate the Rennaisance, Bach, Arthurian myths, Tuscany, Aquavit, the Left Bank, etc. But that is an sufferably "white", prole, downscale view.
    When most non-"white" modern people hear "Euro", they associate a break from the past, progressivism, cynicism, multi-culturalism, etc.
    Adopting a "European-American" identity will mean the Trojan horse importation of an identity antithetical to the interests of white Americans.

    This will only be more and more the case as modern Europe loses its actual whiteness. What will it mean to be "European-American" when US citizens travelling in Europe see black, white, brown, atheist, Muslim, Indian people?

    "White"="majority". Giving up this high ground by giving up "white"ness will be ceding what it means to be American to the Zero'th Amendment and BLM crowds. Even if whites are a minority, as long as there are "whites", people will see a continuity between the Founding Fathers and some living group in modern America. Give up "white" and people will think "European-Americans" have as much in common with those strange long-ago pale, stale, male Fathers as Tariq and Tong down the street.

    Actually, at least a half of all Europeans have lived
    east of Berlin. A few names come to mind: Copernicus,
    Maria Curie, Chopin, Schopenhauer, Fahrenheit, Kant,
    Tolstoy, Dostoyevsky, Sikorsky, Mickiewicz, Pushkin, etc

    • Agree: Chrisnonymous
  201. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @The Undiscovered Jew
    We don’t know what different individuals will choose to do. It could be that many politically conservative Ashkenazis will identify as MENA to uphold the Jewish claim to Israel. Or it could be that liberal Ashkenazis will identify as MENA in the name of fighting white privilege. Or vice-versa. Nobody really knows as of yet.

    Jared Taylor very much wants Jews within his identity politics movement. As a certain immigrant media tycoon once remarked to a friend of mind in explaining why he subsidized neoconservative spokesmen, “To succeed in America, don’t need all the Jews in New York on your side, but you do need some.”


    So you want Jews to join the failure that is white nationalism/paleconservatism/altrightism, or whatever the hell this group of bottom feeders is called now, and identify as white when you don't consider them white?

    Of course what antisemites want is no longer relevant, but I do find it amusing how pompous you are to expect Jews which you hate to run the immigration restriction movement you failed to create.

    And congratulations to paleoconservatives and the altright, you eternal losers, on having American nationalism and immigration restriction taken over by a philo-Zionist surrounded by Jewish advisers.

    A better question for Jews is why we don't purge Unzites from race realism and take it over for ourselves?

    Jared Taylor very much wants Jews within his identity politics movement. As a certain immigrant media tycoon once remarked to a friend of mind in explaining why he subsidized neoconservative spokesmen, “To succeed in America, don’t need all the Jews in New York on your side, but you do need some.”

    That was Rupert Murdoch, an old old-media tycoon, describing the old pre-internet, and especially pre social media, world, in which any sort of movement or initiative had to go through gatekeepers in the New York media world. As a result, the New York media world had veto power over any movement or initiative, and could shape and mold them. But now the internet, and especially social media, has broken this monopoly. This is how the alt-right rose – by like minded people being able to connect and network directly through the internet and social media platforms like Twitter and 4Chan, rather than having their media intermediated by the New York media giants.

    Taylor himself is an older guy in the old media mold. He’s been organizing for decades now through conferences and publishing physical magazines. He’s basically had no influence on the rise of the alt-right, who are mostly younger guys who networked and organized on social media platforms. Taylor arguably owes more to the alt-right than vice versa, as his increased fame and notoriety now is mainly due to the rise of the alt-right.

    The blame for this development really ultimately lies with the internet and social media like Twitter. It has basically been a mini technological revolution that has broken the old media monopoly.

  202. @Yak-15
    I don't know anymore. Certainly only the descendants of slaves may have a case for AA. The rest can bugger off! But if HBD genetics precepts are correct, these people will inherently be unequal. We must stop mass migrations of those less cognitively gifted because once they far outnumber the identifiable smarts, things like this happen:

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indonesian_killings_of_1965%E2%80%9366

    The truth about multi-ethnic nations is that if one race or ethnicity is consistently having better outcomes than the rest, the others become jealous. And jealousy breeds contempt. The Jews know this as do the Chinese.

    Certainly only the descendants of slaves may have a case for AA.

    How are the descendants of slaves worse off for slavery?

    • Replies: @Yak-15
    This is a great point that is often forgotten. Would they be better off in Liberia? Clearly the answer is no. Have they been mistreated and is there perhaps an epigenetic argument. I don't know.
  203. I can name five White pickup trucks, therefore, all pickup trucks are White. Except, they aren’t; I just saw Sammy Davis Jr driving a Black pickup truck.

    You and Spencer are both wrong.

  204. Won’t work. A substantial number of Europeans now aren’t European. Or maybe they are. A lot of mayors of major European cities aren’t European. But they were born in Europe. So that makes them…

    Dunno

    Right, Afrikaners mean nobody uses the term “African-American” as synonymous with “Black” (never mind all the white admixture in African-Americans, or all the mulattos that identify as “African-American,” or all those Caucasoids living north of the Sahara).

  205. @Reg Cæsar

    Heck, calling an Irishman ‘Anglo’ is an insult!
     
    Then he shouldn't be here. Should've thought twice about coming over.

    Naturalizing in Canada is a thorny issue for Irishmen, because to do so one must swear an oath to Her Majesty. Many of them just mumble it.

    That oath shouldn’t really be a problem since they’re now Canadian. But maybe the bastards have dual loyalty!

  206. @Amasius
    I agree. My point was that race is more than skin deep. Jennifer Beals is half black,

    http://ethnicelebs.com/jennifer-beals

    but I was rather surprised when I found out; I think she could pass as Spanish or Italian. There's this prevalent idea that passing is the same thing as being, i.e. Jared Taylor's "jews look hwyte to me" argument.

    As far as Tommy Chong goes, I assumed it was a stage name. I don't think I found out he was in fact half Han Chinese until he was on Dancing with the Stars and he said so. He looks more like George Carlin than Xi Jinping.

    If you have a white ethnostate that where the average ancestry is mulatto, octoroon, turanid, multiracial or whatever, then what is the point, and as for citizenism, why is neoreactionism or absolute monarchy or socialism objectively worse than free market capitalism, after the nobility during the middle ages did not come out of the earth and if you trace their bloodlines long enough enough they all come from either merchants or poor freedmen who moved up the social ladder by either performing some valuable service to their lord and becoming a squire, or marrying into an existing lower nobility family and moving up from there, so in terms of social mobility the middle ages were hardly static, plus there was technological advancement as well, such as the development of plate armour, round castle walls to deflect arrow rounds, the crossbow, and the development of firearms, and improving building techniques.

  207. @AndrewR
    I don't quite get the faux-outrage about what he said.

    How many Jews truly identify with whites and act in the interests of whites in general as opposed to the general interests of the tribe?

    Jews are at the vanguard of anti-White politics. It's clear many of them do not honestly identify as white.

    “How many Jews truly identify with whites and act in the interests of whites in general”

    How many Northern European Gentiles who voted for Crooked Hildabeast truly identify with Whites and act in the interests of Whites in general?

    If politics determines Whiteness than most Whites in blue states that voted for Crooked Hildabeast should be kicked out of the White race. Any White person who believes Donald J. Trump is the new Adolf Hitler should be kicked out of the White race. Any White person who believes Islam is a religion of peace should be kicked out of the White race. Any White person who supports affirmative action should be kicked out of the White race. Any White person who supports Black Lies Matter should be kicked out of the White race. Any White person who supports gun control should be kicked out of the White race. Any White person who supports open borders should be kicked out of the White race. Whites who race mix should be kicked out of the White race, so Richard Spencer should be kicked out of the White race. How does having sex with Asian women advance White interests?

    • LOL: AndrewR
    • Replies: @AndrewR
    What Spencer did years ago is moot. I too have dipped my brush in Oriental paint back when I was less woke. I currently believe that mixing between vastly different ethnic groups is generally bad, but I cannot take back the past and I have no regrets. A lot of huwyte men go for oriental women out of an atavistic desire for femininity and traditionalism that are generally perceived to be more common among oriental women.We must get our own women in line before we blame men for "straying."
  208. @Romanian
    Others have said that people from Europe see themselves as ethnics first, rather than White (I prefer uppercase, since we extend the courtesy to others as well). I talk a lot of politics with friends and on the job, and I always find myself hesitating when it comes to use the word White, even in an American context, whereas no one blinks twice when I say Black. So I end up referring to European-Americans or Euro-Americans, even though I'm with Teddy Roosevelt when it comes to hyphens (which have started to crop up in my country as well). Maybe I internalized the mainstream American disregard for White identity politics without meaning to, or the hesitancy of people in a PC culture to speak of Whites as victim groups.

    “Others have said that people from Europe see themselves as ethnics first, rather than White”

    Makes sense that there is no pan-White identity in Europe because Europeans are not all united by one common language.

    A pan-White identity would only have any chance of working in New World countries like Australia and The United States for example, where the vast majority of Whites are united by 1 common language.

    • Replies: @dfordoom

    A pan-White identity would only have any chance of working in New World countries like Australia and The United States for example, where the vast majority of Whites are united by 1 common language.
     
    Agreed, although I'd add the caveat that they're not united by a common cultural and historical heritage.

    You have to remember that concepts like the English common law, habeas corpus, trial by jury, the idea that you're innocent until proven guilty, freedom of speech, and political freedom in general, are essentially Anglo-Saxon concepts.

    Continental Europe has no such traditions. People from the Continent are accustomed to fairly authoritarian government. Having lived in the US or Australia for a couple of generations they may have absorbed these concepts to some extent. May have. Continental Europeans are also, to a degree, more used to very intrusive bureaucracies and even a certain tolerance for corruption and nepotism. There's a reason why Britain is the only country so far to have rebelled against the EU.

    The other problem is that whites no longer have a common religion. For the most part they have no religion at all. That's an important ingredient of a common identity that has been lost.
    , @Romanian
    By now, isn't it time to recognize an established American ethnic identity or Australian ethnic identity? White Canadians, despite a similar Anglo+Continental mixture, are considered different in national temperament and culture compared to Americans. Sure, you have internal divisions like the Dixians, but there is a lot of narcissism of small differences in Europe as well. Romanians have numerous regional stereotypes and different accents, due to historical separation, but still consider themselves one nation. The French had their regional identities that were gradually obliterated, with the exception of Corsica and Bretagne, where independence movements are still afoot. The Germans are a microcosm unto themselves, but still German.

    The problem with the settler states is that recognition of an American ethnicity is hampered by the state sponsored program of population replacement, that require infinite stretching of what it means to be American or Aussie. And those are some pretty ugly stretchmarks.
  209. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Anatoly Karlin
    Here's a Syrian glass artist from /r/The_Donald

    https://www.reddit.com/r/The_Donald/comments/57ua2t/im_a_syrian_glass_artist_heres_a_little_pepe_i/

    She certainly looks White.

    a lot of christian Syrians are pretty much white, we're the remnants of the crusades
     
    Perhaps under the Trumpist junta we could make a rule that MENA + Christian = European-American, MENA + Muslim = MENA.

    She’s just a dumb ass who believes fairy tales told to her by her mother. And you are a bigger dumb ass for being supposedly better informed yet still believing her.

    The fact is that genetics show not only that Levantine Christians aren’t Europeans or European-influenced, their Muslim counterparts are in fact even more European than they are.
    The reason for this imo is straightforward, as Muslim Levantines also have 1-2% more Sub Saharan African than Christian. The reason is simply that the Muslims were more open to intermarry with all outsiders, and Christians who were a minority stayed strongly monogamous.

    Perhaps you should try looking into genetics before making yourself look like a fool. You can find native blonde+blue haired blue eyed people in literally every country and every ethnicity in North Africa and the Middle East.

    • Replies: @Jefferson
    "The fact is that genetics show not only that Levantine Christians aren’t Europeans or European-influenced,"

    Yeah Arab Christians do not even have Ashkenazi levels of European ancestry, let alone WASP levels of European ancestry.

    Even a Triracial Latino has more European ancestry than an Arab Christian.
  210. @SFG
    Germans, Russians, Italians, Poles...all white by any standard and definitely not Anglo. Heck, calling an Irishman 'Anglo' is an insult!

    “Germans, Russians, Italians, Poles…all white by any standard”

    Are Italians who can easily pass for a Jew, a Latino, or an Arab also White by any standard?

    When I think of White by any standard I think of extremely Nordic phenotype Caucasoids like stand up comedian Jim Gaffigan and Julian Assange for example.

    I assume when you say White by any standard you are not using the more broad definition of White which is anybody who looks White standing next to Michelle and Barack.

  211. @SFG
    There’s this prevalent idea that passing is the same thing as being, i.e. Jared Taylor’s “jews look hwyte to me” argument.

    Depends on your goals. If you want a lineally pure ethnostate a la Spencer (or many Israelis), no. Most people are less concerned with racial purity than racial conflict--lots of whites have no problem mixing with Chinese- or Korean-Americans, who are definitely not white. If Jews weren't addicted to left-wing politics, nobody would care who was a quarter Jewish.

    Taylor may have his own reasons--he was pretty friendly with Paul Gottfried and Larry Auster, if I remember right. Or he might have seen the Nazis as a negative example--Hitler got his country cut in half, ended Germany's preeminence in the sciences, removed any German national pride for decades, made the Germans among the least popular ethnicities in Europe, and made the idea of white racial interests illegitimate for a similar period.

    “–lots of whites have no problem mixing with Chinese- or Korean-Americans,”

    White romantic interest in Chinese and Koreans overwhelmingly comes from men. The vast majority of White women have zero interest in Chinese men and Korean men.

    Most White women are not even interested in a romantic relationship with Mestizo men and Mestizo men have way more Caucasoid admixture than Korean men and Chinese men.

    And by Mestizo men I mean the ones who’s Amerindian features are so strong that they can’t even pass for a swarthy Spaniard like Antonio Banderas. I am talking about Mestizo men who would be mistaking for Native Americans at an Indian casino.

  212. @Anon

    But since you can’t (the fact Stephen Miller is Jewish came as a surprise to many of his alt-right fans), they are white.
     
    Is this hubris, wishful thinking, or ignorance? Jewish phenotypes repeat regularly enough that anyone paying attention can distinguish them. With exceptions of course, but jewdar is a thing.

    “Is this hubris, wishful thinking, or ignorance? Jewish phenotypes repeat regularly enough that anyone paying attention can distinguish them. With exceptions of course, but jewdar is a thing.”

    You are saying Jews are not White because on average they don’t look like Nordic Scandinavians than you can apply that Nonwhite label to most Southern Europeans and a significant minority of Slavs, especially the Charles Bronson looking Slavs. I remember Steven Crowder joked that Charles Bronson’s high cheekbones, mustache, and almond shaped eyes make him look Mexican.

  213. @anonymous
    People who aren't of European descent shouldn't be classified as such. Our crime statistics will clarify once those shady MENA types get taken out of our category and we can see how they're overrepresented in all sorts of racketeering and crime. Most of the various MENA types loathe each other. Iranians definitely don't want to be confused for Arabs, neither do Turks who often like to lead people to think they're European, Assyrians despise the surrounding Muslim populations, Lebanese Christians look westward for inspiration and abhor the Oriental Gulf Arabs, we know what the Armenians think about their Muslim neighbors, and so on. There's been a lot of bloodshed between these groups where one group gets the upper hand and tries to wipe the other out. Don't want to be white then adios, nice to have known you. The next job once the Hussein regime leaves is to get rid of the affirmative programs which have metastasized. The Euros are the brains and the backbone of the US despite the smear stereotypes of fat pillheads and yahoos. Without the Euros there's nothing, no water or electricity. This fact needs to sink in. Better fewer but better.

    “neither do Turks who often like to lead people to think they’re European,”

    The Turk terrorist who shot up a shopping mall in Washington state doesn’t look very European. He looks closer in phenotype to the 9/11 Saudi terrorists than he does to Timothy McVeigh. Even the Tsarnaev brothers look Whiter than him.

  214. Is there any study on how European Latin American whites are? Are they closer to being say castizo than anywhere near 100 percent european ?

  215. Eurican is my choice of terms.

  216. This is may be a question now, but it will be in the near future, with race mixing being the exception rather than the rule, race will become more like a continuum rather than something with clearly defined boundaries (or maybe that already is the situation now) like say in Brazil or Puerto Rico, how do you set up a line in the sand, and then defend it so your white people will not look like and have the same genetics as George Zimmerman, Anwar El Sadat, or Yasser Arafat? How do you prevent the remnants of the white population from being Arabized if you do not put down a line in the sand now and prevent it from being constantly defined downwards?

  217. @German_reader
    I agree (and I'm fairly godless myself, my view of Christianity is ambivalent at best), the extinction of Mideast Christianity is one of the great tragedies of our time (same also applies to obscure sects like the Mandaeans who have even less of a lobby). It's actually one of the few cases where I'd say granting refugee status is justified. The attitude of Western Christians is shameful and deluded. Here in Germany the churches regard it as their main mission to promote a positive view of Islam, they're even actively attempting to downplay reports about Christian refugees being harassed in asylum centres by Muslim "refugees". It's all pretty contemptible.

    Not everywhere yet. I vaguely remember a radio interview with a high ranking catholic official (maybe cardinal Dominik Duka but my miserable memory could have failed me here) and he was actually quite concerned about fate of ME christians (all denominations) and open about negative aspects of islam. What hit me was his intellect, erudition and rhetorical abilities. Especially compared to other interviewed – polotician (and broadly all politicians).
    There is some rumor that our catholic establishment is not happy about contemporary pope Francis.

    On the other hand catholic church is mostly irrelevant – in one of the most atheist countries in the world.

    • Replies: @German_reader
    It may be different in the former Eastern bloc countries (you're in the Czech Republic if I understand correctly?), my impression is people there have a more realistic view of the harsh realities of the world anyway, and because of the communist past are more sceptical of utopias like the open borders madness. Western and Northern Europe is probably quite decadent in comparison, its sheltered bourgeoisie has become absurdly soft and sanctiomonius pc views have become the norm.
  218. @Amasius
    I agree. My point was that race is more than skin deep. Jennifer Beals is half black,

    http://ethnicelebs.com/jennifer-beals

    but I was rather surprised when I found out; I think she could pass as Spanish or Italian. There's this prevalent idea that passing is the same thing as being, i.e. Jared Taylor's "jews look hwyte to me" argument.

    As far as Tommy Chong goes, I assumed it was a stage name. I don't think I found out he was in fact half Han Chinese until he was on Dancing with the Stars and he said so. He looks more like George Carlin than Xi Jinping.

    “but I was rather surprised when I found out; I think she could pass as Spanish or Italian. There’s this prevalent idea that passing is the same thing as being, i.e. Jared Taylor’s “jews look hwyte to me” argument.”

    If a person can look White and not be White, can a person look Black and not be Black?

  219. @Anonymous
    She's just a dumb ass who believes fairy tales told to her by her mother. And you are a bigger dumb ass for being supposedly better informed yet still believing her.

    The fact is that genetics show not only that Levantine Christians aren't Europeans or European-influenced, their Muslim counterparts are in fact even more European than they are.
    The reason for this imo is straightforward, as Muslim Levantines also have 1-2% more Sub Saharan African than Christian. The reason is simply that the Muslims were more open to intermarry with all outsiders, and Christians who were a minority stayed strongly monogamous.

    Perhaps you should try looking into genetics before making yourself look like a fool. You can find native blonde+blue haired blue eyed people in literally every country and every ethnicity in North Africa and the Middle East.

    “The fact is that genetics show not only that Levantine Christians aren’t Europeans or European-influenced,”

    Yeah Arab Christians do not even have Ashkenazi levels of European ancestry, let alone WASP levels of European ancestry.

    Even a Triracial Latino has more European ancestry than an Arab Christian.

  220. @(((Owen)))

    Germans, Russians, Italians, Poles…all white by any standard
     
    Any standard? We Americans have upped our standards. Up yours.

    "And in Europe, the Spaniards, Italians, French, Russians and Swedes, are generally of what we call a swarthy Complexion; as are the Germans also, the Saxons only excepted, who with the English, make the principal Body of White People on the Face of the Earth." -Benjamin Franklin

    “And in Europe, the Spaniards, Italians, French, Russians and Swedes, are generally of what we call a swarthy Complexion;”

    Swedes swarthy? Hahahahaha. Can you show me these 100 percent pure unmixed Swedes who like they could be related to Italian Nicholas Turturro or Greek John Stamos or Portuguese Cristiano Ronaldo or Spaniard Javier Bardem?

    Swedes are to the Caucasoid race like what Sudanese Dinkas are to the Negroid race.

  221. @The Undiscovered Jew
    Israelis and the vast majority of native born American Ashkenazi Jews will not identify with this "MENA" category for the same reason other non-Muslim Near Easterners such as Armenians, Levantine Christians, and Georgians won't - they'll interpret MENA to mean "Muslim", specifically Muslim Arab.

    I'd imagine Persian Muslims would also be averse to being identified racially with lower class Arabs considering how often they insist "Persians are not Arabs".

    “Israelis and the vast majority of native born American Ashkenazi Jews will not identify with this “MENA” category for the same reason other non-Muslim Near Easterners such as Armenians, Levantine Christians, and Georgians won’t – they’ll interpret MENA to mean “Muslim”, specifically Muslim Arab.”

    MENA does automatically conjure up images of people saying Allahu Akbar, the Disney film Aladdin, Mecca, hijabs, burqas, etc in the vast majority of people’s minds. The vast majority of Non White nationalists do not think of Jews first when they think of MENAs because MENAs are overwhelmingly Non Jewish.

  222. Some fun trolling by Tudge in this thread.

    • Replies: @IHTG
    Speaking of which, here's an up-and-coming TrumpJew: http://thehill.com/news/campaign/309766-trump-sparks-imitator-in-ohio-senate-race
  223. @IHTG
    Some fun trolling by Tudge in this thread.

    Speaking of which, here’s an up-and-coming TrumpJew: http://thehill.com/news/campaign/309766-trump-sparks-imitator-in-ohio-senate-race

  224. @The Undiscovered Jew
    Israelis and the vast majority of native born American Ashkenazi Jews will not identify with this "MENA" category for the same reason other non-Muslim Near Easterners such as Armenians, Levantine Christians, and Georgians won't - they'll interpret MENA to mean "Muslim", specifically Muslim Arab.

    I'd imagine Persian Muslims would also be averse to being identified racially with lower class Arabs considering how often they insist "Persians are not Arabs".

    “Israelis and the vast majority of native born American Ashkenazi Jews will not identify with this “MENA” category for the same reason other non-Muslim Near Easterners such as Armenians, Levantine Christians, and Georgians won’t – they’ll interpret MENA to mean “Muslim”, specifically Muslim Arab.”

    MENA does automatically conjure up images of people saying Allahu Akbar, the Disney film Aladdin, Mecca, hijabs, burqas, The Prophet Muhammad, belly dancers, falafels, shawarmas, ISIS, Al Qaeda, camels, Lawrence Of Arabia, multi-billionaire oil sheiks, polygamy, etc in the vast majority of people’s minds and not Jerry Lewis & Rodney Dangerfield for example. The vast majority of Non White nationalists do not think of Jews first when they think of MENAs because MENAs are overwhelmingly Non Jewish.

  225. So when will White people who are not actually secret Turkics or octoroons dissapear from this planet.

  226. I’ve been using ‘European-American’ since my successful application to College in 1968. Any form that asks a race, I select Other and use that, adding ‘European-American’ to the box. White or black are colours, not identities, despite what the progressives prefer.

    Never had an objection to using European-American.

  227. @The Last Real Calvinist

    OK for eastern Europe, but it doesn’t scale for Africa. They’re pretty much all Christians south of Uganda.

     

    Sorry, I wasn't clear: by 'Christendom', I don't mean The Church, i.e. all Christians on earth. To me, Christendom = historically Christian lands, all in Europe or in the close-to-Europe middle East or north Africa, whose borders were threatened and/or breached by Islam.

    In the strictest sense, actually, Christendom refers to European state-sponsored Christianity. For example, when Kierkegaard wrote his Attack on Christendom, I don't think he really had the Copts and Syrian Orthodox in mind.

    This is why SJWs and other Christian-despising leftists get a bit confused and glance around uncomfortably when you start bringing up Islamic oppression of African Christians, and even Syrian and other middle-Eastern ones, and why the classification of ethnicities such as Armenians is fraught for them. Lefties don't want to deal with ambiguity when separating the Who from the Whom.

    Sorry, I wasn’t clear: by ‘Christendom’, I don’t mean The Church, i.e. all Christians on earth. To me, Christendom = historically Christian lands, all in Europe or in the close-to-Europe middle East or north Africa, whose borders were threatened and/or breached by Islam.

    Pretty sure it means all lands dominated by Christ. The original plan was that all knees shall bend and all heads shall bow to the King of Kings, not just European ones. I’m unaware that that plan has been amended by any legitimate authority.

    The past is important to Christianity, but so is the present and, especially, the future. Alpha and omega.

    • Replies: @The Last Real Calvinist

    Pretty sure it means all lands dominated by Christ. The original plan was that all knees shall bend and all heads shall bow to the King of Kings, not just European ones. I’m unaware that that plan has been amended by any legitimate authority.

     

    I seem to be digging myself a deeper conceptual hole with each post I put up on this -- I completely agree with you, Desiderius. 'Christendom' can be understood as either 'The Church', i.e. the sense you're using it, or as a name for a certain historically-contingent phase in the development of the European facet of The Church, i.e. the sense Lefties think of it. They associate Christianity with the West, and don't want to complicate or dilute their hatred of it by thinking about how many Christians hail from other lands and cultures, just as Jesus promised us.
  228. @SFG
    You could probably do the same with Irish or German ancestry (Germans tend to have very boxy heads), for example.

    Germans (and the Dutch, who are also racially German) have big heads and fat faces.

  229. @krakonos
    Not everywhere yet. I vaguely remember a radio interview with a high ranking catholic official (maybe cardinal Dominik Duka but my miserable memory could have failed me here) and he was actually quite concerned about fate of ME christians (all denominations) and open about negative aspects of islam. What hit me was his intellect, erudition and rhetorical abilities. Especially compared to other interviewed - polotician (and broadly all politicians).
    There is some rumor that our catholic establishment is not happy about contemporary pope Francis.

    On the other hand catholic church is mostly irrelevant - in one of the most atheist countries in the world.

    It may be different in the former Eastern bloc countries (you’re in the Czech Republic if I understand correctly?), my impression is people there have a more realistic view of the harsh realities of the world anyway, and because of the communist past are more sceptical of utopias like the open borders madness. Western and Northern Europe is probably quite decadent in comparison, its sheltered bourgeoisie has become absurdly soft and sanctiomonius pc views have become the norm.

  230. @Jefferson
    "How many Jews truly identify with whites and act in the interests of whites in general"

    How many Northern European Gentiles who voted for Crooked Hildabeast truly identify with Whites and act in the interests of Whites in general?

    If politics determines Whiteness than most Whites in blue states that voted for Crooked Hildabeast should be kicked out of the White race. Any White person who believes Donald J. Trump is the new Adolf Hitler should be kicked out of the White race. Any White person who believes Islam is a religion of peace should be kicked out of the White race. Any White person who supports affirmative action should be kicked out of the White race. Any White person who supports Black Lies Matter should be kicked out of the White race. Any White person who supports gun control should be kicked out of the White race. Any White person who supports open borders should be kicked out of the White race. Whites who race mix should be kicked out of the White race, so Richard Spencer should be kicked out of the White race. How does having sex with Asian women advance White interests?

    What Spencer did years ago is moot. I too have dipped my brush in Oriental paint back when I was less woke. I currently believe that mixing between vastly different ethnic groups is generally bad, but I cannot take back the past and I have no regrets. A lot of huwyte men go for oriental women out of an atavistic desire for femininity and traditionalism that are generally perceived to be more common among oriental women.We must get our own women in line before we blame men for “straying.”

    • Replies: @dfordoom

    We must get our own women in line before we blame men for “straying.”
     
    I agree, but how on earth are we going to do that?
  231. BTW, if “race realist” is an accurate moniker, how do you envision it being different under the new Jewish management?

    Well, it’s not clear to me the “exclude Jews” management knows what its vision is.

    I would say race realism should simply include Jews (and I’ll throw in whatever Near East Christian groups are already here) as white and from there work to maintain a white demographic majority with various measures: whites only immigration, encouraging higher birth rates among whites, sterilizing criminals which will disproportionately impact minorities, etc.

  232. MENA does automatically conjure up images of people saying Allahu Akbar, the Disney film Aladdin, Mecca, hijabs, burqas, The Prophet Muhammad,

    Certainly. To Armenians MENA brings up visions of Turks burning down a village in Ye Olde’ Country during the genocide, to Georgians it will mean a city being besieged, to Lebanese Christians the Civil War in the 1980s.

  233. @Opinionator
    Certainly only the descendants of slaves may have a case for AA.

    How are the descendants of slaves worse off for slavery?

    This is a great point that is often forgotten. Would they be better off in Liberia? Clearly the answer is no. Have they been mistreated and is there perhaps an epigenetic argument. I don’t know.

  234. The vast majority of half-blacks cannot pass as white.

    Half-Jews on the other hand are almost impossible to tell apart from other whites. The only consistent “tell” I’ve found among halfies is very high frequencies of neotany, and in some cases a Jewfro as Sam Harris has.

    The fact half-Jews are very difficult to tell apart from fully gentile whites is proof Ashkenazi are white because what other non-white group can consistently produce entirely white looking offspring with whites?

    • Replies: @dcite
    That would be because the great majority of them look (and are, as far as I'm concerned) white. Naturally they have offspring who look white when they marry a white person. Geez. Yes, many have a distinctive look, as do other ethnicities; but the looks still appear white. That's how they were put down on the rolls at Ellis Island 110 years ago, by American born clerks who recorded what they saw, according to instructions.
    , @Jefferson
    "The vast majority of half-blacks cannot pass as white."

    No one with 1 pure Black parent can pass for White/Whitish period. The ones who can pass have a "Black" parent who already has significant Caucasian admixture to begin with.

    Black as midnight Nigerian actor Djimon Hounsou for example could never produce a White/Whitish looking child even if he impregnated the blondest most Nordic looking woman on the planet

  235. How do you prevent the remnants of the white population from being Arabized if you do not put down a line in the sand now and prevent it from being constantly defined downwards?

    They could be encouraged to use egg/sperm donations to have children to produce non-mixed white children.

    The benefits of encouraging IVF would be that it’s morally no different than adopting a fully white child, society in general benefits from the preservation of white racial characteristics, and mixed race people wouldn’t have to be segregated (or the worse) from the rest of society.

  236. Trump isn’t alt-right–Anglin and Co. will tell you that. He has some things in common with them. Their hope is if he’s successful he’ll lay the groundwork for a future white nationalist candidate.

    Were they? Many of them were hoping Trump would take us to war against Israel on day one and have reacted with shock that Trump chose (Supposed) Neocon Bolton, as Deputy at State.

    They seemed to have been expecting an immediate surge in anti-Semitism, and if they got that wrong about Trump I don’t see why you think this clown-show run by Spencer and his boyfriend Donavan has any hope of viability outside of being an internet nuisance.

    I think the alt-right has done a damn good job of keeping Jews out of their movement, at least now that it’s clear alt-right=white gentile nationalist (with some earlier incarnations like the Dark Enlightenment and neoreaction this was less clear). Whether this is actually good for the movement is another story.

    Well the quality of discussion on HBD blogs has dipped since Spencer defined a few years ago as “Altright”.

    If that’s your idea of success they might as well close shop.

    • Replies: @dfordoom

    Many of them were hoping Trump would take us to war against Israel on day one
     
    I haven't heard that one before.
  237. White nationalism is way too tied up with Nazism, and all the Tim Wises and Lena Dunhams slinging white self-hate in the MSM are going to make the Richard Spencers of the world draw the obvious conclusion.

    Spencer is an incompetent fool. There’s nothing he could do to stop American Jews from just taking race realism over (or at least breaking off to do our own thing with race realism and leaving the other segments to sink by themselves) and exclude his type.

    No other segment of antisemitism would be able to stop us either: Paleoconservatism is a geriatric debate society, the skinheads are trailer park misfits.

    Look, I’d love it if the ADL and the NPI could kiss and make up and go after the Muslims and illegal Mexicans, with Talmudic ingenuity being applied to constructing arguments for citizenism, but I just don’t see it happening. Heck, we’ve got Jewish groups making alliances with Muslim groups to defend each other from Trump, which makes me want to drink a fifth of vodka and wash it down with a bacon cheeseburger.

    We don’t need a majority of Jews, just a niche group of them to take it up – Auster and Michael Hart made up for quantity with quality.

    Though I actually would encourage you to continue your advocacy, as any movement, however small, toward a Jewish-white gentile rapprochement would be good for the USA. Just quit talking about taking over–the neocons already did that to the old conservative movement, and they did drag us into Iraq, after all.

    If the antisemites keep insisting Jews are the enemy, race realist Jews have every right to exclude them completely.

  238. Steve, to establish Europhobia, you just have to use it regularly.

    there wasn’t a big resonance in this comment section, but that’s not a problem.

    people are lazy and don’t like to use new words, but if a famous or influential person (you) uses it, the readers and commentators will use it soon too.

    it wouldn’t be the first time you establish a new word or phrase

  239. ““Armenia is not, technically, in Europe. It lies in Asia.”

    What’s wrong with using the old dividing line of the Urals for separating Europe from Asia?

  240. @The Undiscovered Jew
    Trump isn’t alt-right–Anglin and Co. will tell you that. He has some things in common with them. Their hope is if he’s successful he’ll lay the groundwork for a future white nationalist candidate.

    Were they? Many of them were hoping Trump would take us to war against Israel on day one and have reacted with shock that Trump chose (Supposed) Neocon Bolton, as Deputy at State.

    They seemed to have been expecting an immediate surge in anti-Semitism, and if they got that wrong about Trump I don't see why you think this clown-show run by Spencer and his boyfriend Donavan has any hope of viability outside of being an internet nuisance.

    I think the alt-right has done a damn good job of keeping Jews out of their movement, at least now that it’s clear alt-right=white gentile nationalist (with some earlier incarnations like the Dark Enlightenment and neoreaction this was less clear). Whether this is actually good for the movement is another story.

    Well the quality of discussion on HBD blogs has dipped since Spencer defined a few years ago as "Altright".

    If that's your idea of success they might as well close shop.

    Many of them were hoping Trump would take us to war against Israel on day one

    I haven’t heard that one before.

    • Agree: Chrisnonymous
    • Replies: @Mr. Anon
    "I haven’t heard that one before."

    That's because it isn't true.
  241. @Desiderius

    Sorry, I wasn’t clear: by ‘Christendom’, I don’t mean The Church, i.e. all Christians on earth. To me, Christendom = historically Christian lands, all in Europe or in the close-to-Europe middle East or north Africa, whose borders were threatened and/or breached by Islam.
     
    Pretty sure it means all lands dominated by Christ. The original plan was that all knees shall bend and all heads shall bow to the King of Kings, not just European ones. I'm unaware that that plan has been amended by any legitimate authority.

    The past is important to Christianity, but so is the present and, especially, the future. Alpha and omega.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P-IAUpNFoaQ

    Pretty sure it means all lands dominated by Christ. The original plan was that all knees shall bend and all heads shall bow to the King of Kings, not just European ones. I’m unaware that that plan has been amended by any legitimate authority.

    I seem to be digging myself a deeper conceptual hole with each post I put up on this — I completely agree with you, Desiderius. ‘Christendom’ can be understood as either ‘The Church’, i.e. the sense you’re using it, or as a name for a certain historically-contingent phase in the development of the European facet of The Church, i.e. the sense Lefties think of it. They associate Christianity with the West, and don’t want to complicate or dilute their hatred of it by thinking about how many Christians hail from other lands and cultures, just as Jesus promised us.

  242. @The Undiscovered Jew
    The vast majority of half-blacks cannot pass as white.

    Half-Jews on the other hand are almost impossible to tell apart from other whites. The only consistent "tell" I've found among halfies is very high frequencies of neotany, and in some cases a Jewfro as Sam Harris has.

    The fact half-Jews are very difficult to tell apart from fully gentile whites is proof Ashkenazi are white because what other non-white group can consistently produce entirely white looking offspring with whites?

    That would be because the great majority of them look (and are, as far as I’m concerned) white. Naturally they have offspring who look white when they marry a white person. Geez. Yes, many have a distinctive look, as do other ethnicities; but the looks still appear white. That’s how they were put down on the rolls at Ellis Island 110 years ago, by American born clerks who recorded what they saw, according to instructions.

  243. Very odd and artificial, agonizing over words and what people are labeled, because whatever the label is, the contents will out. Blacks used to play this game because whites decided what they were labeled. Naturally people get defensive when that occurs. Labels are meant to accord with the contents; if they don’t, you can be sure a contrived agenda is to blame.

    MENA label or no, those who look white or whitish will continue to be perceived that way. I knew many Lebanese and some Armenians. They were Christians and blended with us European descended Christians just fine. I’m using “Christian” more in a cultural sense than religious.What I knew of Jews didn’t strike me as “non-white.” Kind of surprised at that notion. They seemed to be part of the warp and woof of American-European culture.

    One usually feels, when walking or driving through a predominantly non-white area, a vibe so overwhelmingly “low class” it is threatening . One college student writing a review of a good Indian restaurant that happened to be in little El Salvador outside D.C. (used to be a lot east Indians there), remarked that he thought he had been brought to the parking lot to be killed. He was sort of joking, but that’s the vibe. Whatever nonsense they blather about safe spaces, non-whites don’t feel threatened in most white areas. Usually, as the terrain becomes whiter, the tone rises. A friend’s Mexican husband thought the grass was literally greener even in lower income white neighborhoods (compared to blacks ones.) He thought it was because blacks had too many kids and they were always running on the lawns. His Colombian friend was relieved to be living in a predominantly white neighborhood after being in a black neighborhood. There are of course, the truly indigent, impoverished Appalachians, drug addicts, unemployed, and general down and outs; but their behavior is similar to that of blacks and browns, only less extreme, and they just make up a smaller percentage of their race. When people talk of rights for whites, they automatically think you are referring to those whites whose behavior resembles a large percentage of blacks. What whites really mean when they refer to that, is the respectable working class that built and maintains the infrastructure of the modern world, and keeps it all running. Hispanics are good workers generally, but they are not perfectionists, to put it mildly, so no one should herald the decline of the white worker considering what they are trying to replace them with. Very, very foolish.

    • Replies: @Opinionator
    Reportedly, the impoverished Appalachiam areas are relatively safe and free of crime.
  244. @dfordoom

    Many of them were hoping Trump would take us to war against Israel on day one
     
    I haven't heard that one before.

    “I haven’t heard that one before.”

    That’s because it isn’t true.

  245. @dcite
    Very odd and artificial, agonizing over words and what people are labeled, because whatever the label is, the contents will out. Blacks used to play this game because whites decided what they were labeled. Naturally people get defensive when that occurs. Labels are meant to accord with the contents; if they don't, you can be sure a contrived agenda is to blame.

    MENA label or no, those who look white or whitish will continue to be perceived that way. I knew many Lebanese and some Armenians. They were Christians and blended with us European descended Christians just fine. I'm using "Christian" more in a cultural sense than religious.What I knew of Jews didn't strike me as "non-white." Kind of surprised at that notion. They seemed to be part of the warp and woof of American-European culture.

    One usually feels, when walking or driving through a predominantly non-white area, a vibe so overwhelmingly "low class" it is threatening . One college student writing a review of a good Indian restaurant that happened to be in little El Salvador outside D.C. (used to be a lot east Indians there), remarked that he thought he had been brought to the parking lot to be killed. He was sort of joking, but that's the vibe. Whatever nonsense they blather about safe spaces, non-whites don't feel threatened in most white areas. Usually, as the terrain becomes whiter, the tone rises. A friend's Mexican husband thought the grass was literally greener even in lower income white neighborhoods (compared to blacks ones.) He thought it was because blacks had too many kids and they were always running on the lawns. His Colombian friend was relieved to be living in a predominantly white neighborhood after being in a black neighborhood. There are of course, the truly indigent, impoverished Appalachians, drug addicts, unemployed, and general down and outs; but their behavior is similar to that of blacks and browns, only less extreme, and they just make up a smaller percentage of their race. When people talk of rights for whites, they automatically think you are referring to those whites whose behavior resembles a large percentage of blacks. What whites really mean when they refer to that, is the respectable working class that built and maintains the infrastructure of the modern world, and keeps it all running. Hispanics are good workers generally, but they are not perfectionists, to put it mildly, so no one should herald the decline of the white worker considering what they are trying to replace them with. Very, very foolish.

    Reportedly, the impoverished Appalachiam areas are relatively safe and free of crime.

  246. @neutral
    Problem with this is that the Merkel youth will increasingly make up Europe. The people in Europe will never accept that European means white (both the leftists and the non whites taking over). In America this will also create a problem that what does one call a non white from Europe ? This is already a problem for whites that come from South Africa and move to America (are they Africans ?), but there are not that many whites in Africa, but with Europe and its rapid demographic transformation this will cause much more confusion along with the PC problems.

    This is already a problem for whites that come from South Africa and move to America (are they Africans ?),

    Yup, Charlize Theron, who is a multi generational South African, with more recent and deeper ties to Africa than Michelle Obama. This makes Charlize – without a shadow of doubt – a doubleplus African American.

  247. @Jefferson
    "Others have said that people from Europe see themselves as ethnics first, rather than White"

    Makes sense that there is no pan-White identity in Europe because Europeans are not all united by one common language.

    A pan-White identity would only have any chance of working in New World countries like Australia and The United States for example, where the vast majority of Whites are united by 1 common language.

    A pan-White identity would only have any chance of working in New World countries like Australia and The United States for example, where the vast majority of Whites are united by 1 common language.

    Agreed, although I’d add the caveat that they’re not united by a common cultural and historical heritage.

    You have to remember that concepts like the English common law, habeas corpus, trial by jury, the idea that you’re innocent until proven guilty, freedom of speech, and political freedom in general, are essentially Anglo-Saxon concepts.

    Continental Europe has no such traditions. People from the Continent are accustomed to fairly authoritarian government. Having lived in the US or Australia for a couple of generations they may have absorbed these concepts to some extent. May have. Continental Europeans are also, to a degree, more used to very intrusive bureaucracies and even a certain tolerance for corruption and nepotism. There’s a reason why Britain is the only country so far to have rebelled against the EU.

    The other problem is that whites no longer have a common religion. For the most part they have no religion at all. That’s an important ingredient of a common identity that has been lost.

  248. @AndrewR
    What Spencer did years ago is moot. I too have dipped my brush in Oriental paint back when I was less woke. I currently believe that mixing between vastly different ethnic groups is generally bad, but I cannot take back the past and I have no regrets. A lot of huwyte men go for oriental women out of an atavistic desire for femininity and traditionalism that are generally perceived to be more common among oriental women.We must get our own women in line before we blame men for "straying."

    We must get our own women in line before we blame men for “straying.”

    I agree, but how on earth are we going to do that?

  249. @(((Owen)))
    Africa and Asia don't divide completely naturally. The Sinai could be—and has been—in either.

    But as you say, the Europe-Asia divide is pure social construct. It could move quite a lot and still make as much sense as ever.

    ---

    Including Jews as MENA would create incentives to re-create the Jewish quotas. It's much better to be included in the white category, so that's where the Jews and Jewish Israelis will end up. The only question is whether Arab Israelis count as MENA: Probably yes.

    The jewish affirmative action is to hide within ”white” category, what Unz showed for us, 😉

    So if most jewish-amurricans were labelled as MENA, we will see american universities dominated by ”arabs”, 😉 FBI and Fox nightmare.

    ”Jews’, shamefully, use their own over-representation in the american universities to accuse ”white” supremacy/dominance in the academia…

    As they shift from them the growing social consciousness of “nonwhite” about privileged group / elite, to the “whites.”

  250. Brancos sound classy too, 😉

    AlbInians

  251. @The Last Real Calvinist

    But in general Mideast Christians are probably ok (and they’re one of the few groups of refugees I actually have some sympathy for since they’re really persecuted and don’t have much of a future in the Mideast).

     

    This, to me, is the greatest tragedy in our current geopolitical mess. Even the Christian churches of the USA and Europe largely ignore the fact that their ostensible brothers and sisters in Christ are being systematically and cruelly persecuted in the many lands, but they still promote admitting Muslims as 'refugees' by ridiculous margins. In the USA, it seems there is a concerted effort to keep out Christians refugees, e.g. nearly all of the Syrians being admitted are Muslim. I recall Obama screeching about prioritizing Christian refugees as 'shameful', and so far as I can see his view has prevailed. This is one area Trump could call for an immediate, radical change in US policy, and do some real good.

    In fairness, I don't know how hard it would be to sort out the Christians from the Muslims in refugee camps and elsewhere, but I can't see much evidence that's it's even being attempted. And is there a single western government that is actually giving Christian refugees priority, since their persecution on straightforward religious grounds would seem to be the textbook qualification for refugee status?

    In fairness, I don’t know how hard it would be to sort out the Christians from the Muslims in refugee camps

    That’s fairly simple. Make them swear that they are Christians, and that if they are currently Muslim, that they renounce Islam. The second part constitutes apostasy. No Muslim would say it for fear of hellfire in the afterlife. The hard part is overcoming the howls of outrage coming from the media (and RINOs) at such a requirement.

  252. @Cagey Beast
    Why do you assume all Irish are republicans or that Canadian-ness belongs to those with ancestors from England? The Irish have been a part of the Canadian project since the time of the Battle of the Plains of Abraham.

    I don’t “assume”. I read of it in an Irish-(North) American periodical. The article didn’t claim, nor did I, that all or most Irish immigants felt this way.

    In the UK, the Irish can be the most, as well as the least, patriotic of Britons. Look at expat John Lennon vs Sir Paul McCartney. In our Civil War, the fiercest soldiers on both sides were the Scots-Irish.

  253. Going to a Catholic school in the San Fernando Valley in the 1960s, Danny Thomas was seen as a great Catholic American

    Why was a man in his 50s attending a Catholic school in the San Fernando Valley? Didn’t they teach him back in Michigan, one of the NEA’s best states? How good was the instruction in English composition in the Valley in those days?

  254. AshkeNAZIS = MENApeans

  255. @The Undiscovered Jew
    The vast majority of half-blacks cannot pass as white.

    Half-Jews on the other hand are almost impossible to tell apart from other whites. The only consistent "tell" I've found among halfies is very high frequencies of neotany, and in some cases a Jewfro as Sam Harris has.

    The fact half-Jews are very difficult to tell apart from fully gentile whites is proof Ashkenazi are white because what other non-white group can consistently produce entirely white looking offspring with whites?

    “The vast majority of half-blacks cannot pass as white.”

    No one with 1 pure Black parent can pass for White/Whitish period. The ones who can pass have a “Black” parent who already has significant Caucasian admixture to begin with.

    Black as midnight Nigerian actor Djimon Hounsou for example could never produce a White/Whitish looking child even if he impregnated the blondest most Nordic looking woman on the planet

  256. @Jefferson
    "Others have said that people from Europe see themselves as ethnics first, rather than White"

    Makes sense that there is no pan-White identity in Europe because Europeans are not all united by one common language.

    A pan-White identity would only have any chance of working in New World countries like Australia and The United States for example, where the vast majority of Whites are united by 1 common language.

    By now, isn’t it time to recognize an established American ethnic identity or Australian ethnic identity? White Canadians, despite a similar Anglo+Continental mixture, are considered different in national temperament and culture compared to Americans. Sure, you have internal divisions like the Dixians, but there is a lot of narcissism of small differences in Europe as well. Romanians have numerous regional stereotypes and different accents, due to historical separation, but still consider themselves one nation. The French had their regional identities that were gradually obliterated, with the exception of Corsica and Bretagne, where independence movements are still afoot. The Germans are a microcosm unto themselves, but still German.

    The problem with the settler states is that recognition of an American ethnicity is hampered by the state sponsored program of population replacement, that require infinite stretching of what it means to be American or Aussie. And those are some pretty ugly stretchmarks.

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