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Why So Many More Perfect Scores on SAT/ACT All of a Sudden?
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During the last year, there has been a big increase in the number of high school students achieving a perfect score on the SAT and ACT college admissions tests. I’m wonder if this is in response to the current lawsuit against Harvard for discriminating against Asians with perfect scores? By making 1600/36 easier to get, it decreases the Asian share of perfect scores, giving Harvard et al more leeway in who to let in with anybody being able to prove discrimination.

 
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  1. >Of the 3.6 million students expected to graduate from high school this year, more than 5,200 candidates qualified for the 2019 awards determined by outstanding performance on the College Board SAT and ACT exams or through nominations made by Chief State School Officers, other partner recognition organizations and the National YoungArts Foundation’s nationwide YoungArts™ competition.

    This is double what it normally is.

    I feel like my accomplishment is being devalued.

  2. Part of Reparations will be to award perfect SAT scores to everyone except jews, asians, and wypipos.

  3. Jack D says:

    I’m guessing that you have it backwards and many if not most of those 1600 scorers are THEMSELVES Asian. They sure ain’t black.

    I think the infrastructure for studying for the SAT, for those so inclined (again mostly Asians) just keeps getting better and better – it’s a sort of an arms race between the College Board and the colleges on one side and the cram schools and Asians on the other.

    In order to fight back against anti-Asian discrimination, Asians have redoubled their efforts to achieve high scores. Asians have to compete against each other for the restricted # of Asian slots so you need that 1600 not to beat whitey but to beat your Asian competitors.

    • Agree: lavoisier
  4. Anon[338] • Disclaimer says:

    Forget the 1600-point people. The important thing is, are the 1050 people now breaking 1150?

    They may have recentered the test again. Recentering *ahem* helps minorities land fat scholarships that allow them to go to elite colleges. Elite colleges don’t like to spend down their endowment to support all those poor white B students who can’t afford full tuition. Therefore, colleges are frantic to keep that scholarship money flowing in. I’m willing to bet a bunch of college CEOs (sorry, I meant college presidents), especially those who have seen an enrollment decline for ‘various reasons’ (e.g. Oberlin) leaned on the testing board to recenter the test. I’m also willing to bet it was done to make it easier to allow rich foreign students (paying full tuition) to get into US colleges. The American middle class is getting poorer and even thinking of not going to college at all.

    • Replies: @deMerito
  5. One of my guesses is that college is much more high stakes than it was back when (back when for me was 25 years ago). I had the grades, the necessary score to go any college I wanted to, all of them were state schools. But even as a teenager, I knew at the time that if I hadn’t have screwed around and took test prep seriously, I could have improved significantly. But I didn’t need to, and being 17, didn’t.

    I’ve heard the tests have changed, and that’s probably true, but having knowledge and taking a test, and having knowledge and knowing how to take a test are two different things. I made $300 bucks one time teaching first time teachers how to take their test (I aced it). I stressed to them that you either know it or you don’t, but when they ask for an answer as to how to teach Johnny X, give them the answer they want.

    • Replies: @Andrei Martyanov
  6. If I had to guess, I’d say they were trying to engineer smaller gender and/or race gaps by systematically throwing out questions that white and Asian males do relatively better at.

    Those questions tend to be the harder ones. So the whole test would get dumbed down a bit, especially at the right tail.

    It would be interesting to see if the Standard Deviation for the test gets more compressed in terms of raw scores. That would suggest an overall dumbing down of the test. But I’m not sure they even publish that kind of data.

    • Replies: @AnotherDad
  7. Twinkie says:

    By making 1600/36 easier to get, it decreases the Asian share of perfect scores, giving Harvard et al more leeway in who to let in with anybody being able to prove discrimination.

    Wouldn’t that also increase the number of blacks and Hispanics with perfect (or high enough) SAT/ACT scores who can be touted as geniuses that every top university should recruit?

  8. Twinkie says:
    @Jack D

    In order to fight back against anti-Asian discrimination, Asians have redoubled their efforts to achieve high scores. Asians have to compete against each other for the restricted # of Asian slots so you need that 1600 not to beat whitey but to beat your Asian competitors.

    I think this is plausible, but there is a limited benefit to test-prep, so perhaps another explanation is in order – that the cohort size of Asian test-takers has increased (due to higher immigration) and/or that the selectivity of the immigrants has risen (with the predictably heritable results for their children).

    • Replies: @Sam Lowry
  9. @Jack D

    I think the infrastructure for studying for the SAT, for those so inclined (again mostly Asians) just keeps getting better and better – it’s a sort of an arms race between the College Board and the colleges on one side and the cram schools and Asians on the other.

    I think Jack has nailed it.

    One thing to keep in mind is that IQ tests, or quasi-IQ tests like the SAT–though it’s much less of one in its recent rework–while very worthwhile measures of intelligence, simply aren’t like whipping out a ruler and measuring someone’s height. They measure intelligence by … giving you a test. But like any mental skill you can get much better on it with practice.

    And in particular “figure this out” problems–very good tests of intelligence–become much less useful bordering on useless if your subject has already seen it before and so does not actually have to “figure it out”.

    If the College Board was serious it would both:

    a) Adaptive
    Make the test adaptive–like many of their other tests are–with a much much much larger question bank, so that a kid spends basically their entire test banging away at questions near the difficulty level that is going to correspond to their score. (Instead of say needing to have memorized the form enough to nail ten questions to get at 700 level kid to 800, they must know 200-300–a much harder proposition.)

    b) No cap.
    Open the cap up as Steve suggested–no upper limit. Have questions in the bank for 3 sigma, 4 sigma, 5 sigma. That helps separate the truly exceptional from just the really smarts who’ve test prepped their ass to perfect or near perfect scores. That let’s schools know that this kid really is an exception intellect that they want to have, even if his resume reads like all the other UMC Asian kids out there.

    But, of course, the College Board is not serious. It actually wants a test that does not discriminate well in upper end IQ, because that’s just going to throw up more geeky guys. It is actually motivated to try and blunt race and sex gaps and provide enough obfuscator cover to give adequate information but enough obfuscation for colleges to pick whom they want.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    , @Lot
  10. > By making 1600/36 easier to get, it decreases the Asian share of perfect scores, giving Harvard et al more leeway in who to let in with anybody being able to prove discrimination.

    Wasn’t there something similar with a firefighter test somewhere (maybe FDNY?) – they made the test super easy so that basically everyone passes, and then they can admit the requisite number of black firefighters?

    • Agree: jim jones
    • Replies: @anonymous
  11. t says:

    Looking at average ACT scores the only large jumps come when a state switches to the SAT. So there’s no evidence of a stealth renorming.

  12. Kronos says:

    What about the SAT “Adversity” Score? Also, did the ACT develop a similar measure?

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2019/05/17/us/sat-adversity-score-explained.amp.html

  13. Jack D says:
    @AnotherDad

    The SAT was designed with the mythical WASP scholar-athlete-gentleman in mind – the “natural”. Young fellow, sit down here and let’s see what you have learned in high school? And young Winthrop (who looks like Robert Redford in his younger days) is supposed to walk in cold with his #2 pencils and show us what he knows. If Winthrop is uncommonly brilliant then he will be one of a handful that gets a 1600. It wasn’t designed for Chung Hee who has drilled with a stopwatch and learned the shortcut solutions for the 10 most common types of SAT math questions.

    • Replies: @HammerJack
  14. dvorak says:

    Could be a concordance process, where 1570 is rounded up to 1600, for the purpose of admissions and US News:
    https://collegereadiness.collegeboard.org/pdf/guide-2018-act-sat-concordance.pdf

    So when US News says ‘1600’ they may really be saying ‘1570-1600’.

    More top students may be taking the ACT because it is a few times easier to get an ACT 36 than an SAT 1600, just based on granularity of the scoring, as can be seen in the concordance table.

  15. The Peter Principle is eroding the competence of the test-makers. Have you seen academia lately?

    • Replies: @bomag
  16. Anon 2 says:

    OT: Math Olympiad

    Jan Fornal of Poland, 19, won his second gold medal at the International
    Mathematical Olympiad, receiving a perfect score. He was one of 600
    participants, almost all of them men, representing over 100 countries.
    In terms of the team competition the United States (overwhelmingly Chinese
    team), China, and both Koreas usually rank near the top. Israel’s performance
    at the Math Olympiad is invariably as embarrassing as its performance in the
    Olympics. But then Israel is a low IQ country, so what can you expect?
    Fornal won in 2018 as well.

    • Replies: @Redneck farmer
  17. A sports analogy: A few years ago, a fellow in Syracuse, N.Y. rented all ten lanes of a bowling alley, for a very short time. He then proceeded to roll three 300 games in less than 90 seconds.

    This was in tenpin, of course. In well over a century of duckpin and candlepin bowling, with similar lanes and scoring, no person has ever rolled a 300 game.

    The official record high scores are 279 for duckpin and 245 for candlepin.

    The SATs and ACTs are now tenpin.

    Babe Ruth loved to play duckpin, but found baseball much easier.

    https://img.grouponcdn.com/seocms/2iqvpTpZLhPzKJi1fkqCpcwHY3g4/04_candlepin__1__jpg-600×390


  18. eah says:

    OT

    FWIW

  19. Sean says:

    Yes, decreasing the Asian share of perfect scores gives Harvard et al more leeway in who to let in without anybody being able to prove discrimination. Given what Mr Unz says about the low quality personnel in the admissions department (ex-pest control officers) they probabally can’t think up anything better. Asians study hard, but are much worse than Ashkenazi Jews at abstract thinking. I suspect that to make a test that Asians find hard while insouciant Jews ace is not beyond the capabilities of Harvard. So expect them to muddy the waters so as to tweak the exam along the aforementioned lines as well as simply making it easier

    • Replies: @Lot
  20. I’ll put up with them debasing my citizenship, gosh darnit, but it’s a bridge too far when they start messing with SAT/ACT results.

  21. @Mr McKenna

    Don’t be ridiculous; of course Jews will figure out a way to get in on that action.

    As to this whole perfect score question, the answer is easy. The Asians are just getting better at cheating.

    • Replies: @SFG
    , @Kronos
  22. Daniel H says:

    Yep, your argument makes sense.

    That said, two of my nephews recently earned perfect scores in the ACT. I am immensely proud of them.

  23. anon[423] • Disclaimer says:

    Has the mean GPA of test takers increased concomitantly? It’d be interesting to see these two trends plotted on the same graph. Generally, you’d think there would be a correlation between the two, so if they diverged that might indicate a problem with the test itself (or how it’s normed) rather than students simply studying harder in general. Although, it is conceivable they are just studying harder for the test itself, maybe if there are more practice tests being made available or financial aid for test prep.

  24. @Anon 2

    Israel’s problem was caused by something Fornal’s ancestors did 1942-44, I am guessing. At least that’s the usual answer.

  25. Lot says:
    @AnotherDad

    PC has degraded the quality of the SAT over time.

    They know actually fixing the A>W>H>B thing is a fool’s errand.

    However, in the group of thousands of trial questions, there are going to be certain ones that for whatever reason women and NAMs do relatively better on. And given a choice between a test question that narrows the gap just a tiny bit versus one that is a little higher quality, they are going to choose the lower quality gap-closing question every time.

    Just a little speculation, but one reason that Asians keep increasing their lead over whites may be that on verbal questions, asians may benefit from the same types of questions blacks do relatively well on. While I think the SAT people would prefer to hold down asians relative to whites, this is a very distant consideration compared to job #1 of narrowing the more important B-W gap.

    What type of question? I think Ed Realist has noted that not just Asians get more preps than whites, but there are also a billion programs providing free test prep to NAMs. So questions that reward prep are favored with the primary goal of helping such well-prepped NAMs, and have the side effect of helping well-prepped cram school grads.

    • Replies: @Paul Jolliffe
  26. Fen Tiger says:

    Somewhat similar perspective in the UK. Back in the day, Oxford and Cambridge admitted based on their own examinations, usually taken a few months after A Levels (the final pre-university exams). These were abolished in order to be “more inclusive” – at the same time, for the same reason, A Levels’ rigour was seriously devalued.

    A friend of mine was a Fellow of one of the Cambridge colleges. When I asked him what he thought about all this, he said, “oh, for us it’s excellent: all the applicants have the top grade, so we can pick literally whoever we like.”

    • Replies: @PV van der Byl
  27. anon[543] • Disclaimer says:

    “I think Ed Realist has noted that not just Asians get more preps than whites, but there are also a billion programs providing free test prep to NAMs.”

    How much of these tests are just pattern recognition? MCAT score and the number of practice tests taken are far more correlated with test score than studying the material itself; many students don’t even bother studying the subject material, preferring to take endless practice tests, instead. Has the much more difficult MCAT score increased? It’s comparatively difficult to finance a rigorous test prep schedule for that test. It may not mean anything scientifically, but I’d like to see a graph plotting GPA, SAT/ACT, and MCAT score over time. I would bet that both GPA and MCAT have remained relatively stable because white liberals may not face the same competition to get into a medical school as they might an elite university against Asian competition.

  28. Lot says:
    @Sean

    “Asians study hard, but are much worse than Ashkenazi Jews at abstract thinking. … I suspect that to make a test that Asians find hard while insouciant Jews ace is not beyond the capabilities of Harvard.”

    Definately, but Harvard just isn’t important enought to ETS that will happen.

    While I am sure Harvard would like the SAT to find a way to hold down Asian scores, this isn’t a really common problem for ETS. There are maybe 15 colleges that substantially prefer whites over asian, and maybe another 20 or 30 with a little preference for whitey over an Asian with slightly higher scores.

    But for the vast majority of colleges, and thus the vast majority of ETS’s market, the demand is to narrow the B-W and H-W gaps. And as I speculate above, selecting for questions that narrow the NAM-W gap have the side effect of increasing the A-W gap.

    Have a look at this page:

    https://blog.prepscholar.com/sat-analogies-and-comparisons-why-removed-what-replaced-them

    They give an example of the more difficult, harder-to-prep for verbal analogies question type that was removed from the SAT in 2005, and replaced by question types that reward cramming. The article strongly implies it was about reducing the NAM-W gap.

  29. Bruno says:

    It’s the 1400-1600 range that counts and the increase is 100% in the last 2 years, so that 150k persons are at that level in 2018 versus 80k in 2016.

    If top 50 schools don’t increase their average score and the freshmen number stay the same, it means that the students at that level will have a 20% chance of being admitted instead of 40%.

    Btw, most score reports don’t make sense. When you take universities with a 75th percentile at or above 1580 level, the total number is greater than the actual scorers. There must be some false score reporting by Universities.

    The 2 ways by whom scores are legally improved :
    – they only take the highest score . A bit like Mensa who has a threshold of 1 in 20 instead of 1 in 50 for this same reason
    – they report the score by separating the verbal and math score and then recombine it, wich is more than the actual average score (they take 25-75 percentile separately)

    • Replies: @Jack D
  30. @Jack D

    The SAT was designed with the mythical WASP scholar-athlete-gentleman in mind

    If anyone looks at early SAT questions, he’ll quickly perceive that this is no more than typical Jewish/Hollywood propaganda claptrap.

    One thing you can say, however, is that the questions were much harder then, and to some degree predicated upon a rigorous, classical education.

    All that notwithstanding, the actual fact is that nerdy Jews tended to do pretty well on the test in the early years.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    , @Hopscotch
  31. Hodag says:

    1. ACT wise, the scoring is easier. 29 composite used to be top 2% in the 1980s. Now it is top 9%.

    2. As stated above, there is learning going on. My kids take the NWEA (an achievement test, computer based and adaptive) twice a year as do every kid in the vast system they are in. The oldest is a very good student and took the PSAT 8/9 last year, will take the OLSAT this year (to get into a gifted middle school.) Then PSAT 8/9 again. Then PSAT. The SAT and ACT at appropriate time. All of that without test prep. But it all is test prep, since there is constant learning.

    3. The internet. Questions from all over are posted and discussed in subreddit and elsewhere. If a question is reused they will know the answers.

  32. deMerito says:
    @Anon

    Close enough. old SAT 1040 = new SAT 1120

    However,
    old SAT 1580 = new SAT 1590 ,
    old SAT 1600 = new SAT 1600 .

    Not much change at the top end. Thus it is more like the quality of the students improved.

    • Replies: @EH
    , @Bruno
  33. SFG says:
    @The Germ Theory of Disease

    Yeah, but not test scores; Jews are far along enough in the assimilation/status pipeline to get in as legacies at this point. I doubt their test scores are that much higher than the mean, though if they dropped the social justice and went back to studying (but why would they do that?) they might give the Asians a run for their money.

    (I kind of wonder if this is the subtext behind Ron’s work; he wishes his relatives would drop the social justice scam and get back to giving their countries ammonia syntheses, polio vaccines, and atomic energy. I sure do.)

    Test scores help Asians now.

    • Replies: @Lot
    , @AnotherDad
  34. @Lot

    Lot said:
    “What type of question? I think Ed Realist has noted that not just Asians get more preps than whites, but there are also a billion programs providing free test prep to NAMs. So questions that reward prep are favored with the primary goal of helping such well-prepped NAMs . . .”

    I thought Steve learned that all of those billion programs in NYC and elsewhere – free prep to boost NAM’s scores – boomeranged because it was Asian and white kids who actually took advantage of the free prep, not the black or hispanic kids.

    (It turned out, predictably, that the basic issue was not that test prep was too expensive for black families, rather that black kids didn’t want to spend extra time after school prepping. And so, relatively speaking, they didn’t.)

    And therefore, paradoxically, free test prep in NYC meant a wider, not a smaller gap.

    • Replies: @Lot
  35. Tom Verso says:

    Much is made of Asia’s alleged high SAT scores; but a Georgetown study of 200 Colleges, reported in the Wall Street Journal 6/23/19 (https://www.wsj.com/articles/what-if-colleges-used-only-test-scores-to-fill-campuses-11561282201), shows that in if theses schools admitted solely on SAT scores the percentage of Asians would drop from current 11% to 10%.

    So what’s up with all the talk about Asia genius?

    • Replies: @Anon
  36. Jake says:

    The obvious answer to a non-racist is: the huge, sudden increase in perfect ACT/SAT scores is due to the fact that now diversity is paying off. The less white the schools became meant that eventually we would reach the Golden Age. And here it is with all the perfect ACT/SAT scores to prove it.

  37. keuril says:

    By making 1600/36 easier to get, it decreases the Asian share of perfect scores, giving Harvard et al more leeway

    That assumes changes were made by the SAT/ACT organizations to please Harvard. That would be a pretty complex conspiracy. My first guess is simpler: the cat’s out of the bag on testing accommodations as the best quasi-legal testing hack, and now a wider range of test takers are getting them. Double time on the ACT for significant numbers of already prepped students is going to result in a lot more perfect scores.

    • Replies: @Manxman
  38. bomag says:
    @Intelligent Dasein

    Have you seen academia lately?

    Good point.

    Even if they are capable enough, the demands of PC creeps into the affair.

  39. “By making 1600/36 easier to get, it decreases the Asian share of perfect scores, giving Harvard et al more leeway in who to let in with anybody being able to prove discrimination.”

    Gonzo Grammar Po Po citations:

    By making 1600/36 easier to get, it decreases the Asian share of perfect scores, giving Harvard et al. more leeway in who to let in without anybody being able to prove discrimination.

    or alternatively–

    By making 1600/36 easier to get, it decreases the Asian share of perfect scores, giving Harvard et al. more leeway in who to let in with nobody being able to prove discrimination.

    There are two corrections in each example.

  40. Sam Lowry says:
    @Twinkie

    Good point about the limited benefits of test prep. Studies over decades show minor increases in scores by those who prep (e.g. average increases under 100 points–some studies are well under 100–on 1600 scale). Yes, an extra 60 points or so is important, but its not a fundamental game changer. It seems we all have a natural score range on these tests and test prep merely helps one score close to their maximum in that range. Few, if any, kids are prepping and getting 150 or 200 point increases–and don’t be fooled by the first test the preppers make you take (and that shows a very low score) as that’s smoke and mirrors to show you what great preppers they are–when they are probably average at best.

    That said, anecdotally, I have heard of a few Asian cram schools on the West Coast that run true Asian style test prepping. That is, several hundred hours of SAT test prep over 6, 9, 12 months with multiple hours of work per week. Supposedly, these do result in massive 200+ point increases. However, even Asians in the US aren’t keen on these as there is a reason they came to the US in the first place (i.e. to get away from crazy Asian cram schools). Plus, even with normal US style test prep (not requiring hundreds of hours of prep) they can kick a$$ on US tests.

    • Replies: @Manxman
  41. EH says:
    @deMerito

    No, the SAT has much less “top” than it once did. In the late ’80 s my 1-question wrong 760V was a 1 in 2000+ score, and 1600 was 1 in ~500,000 score, but now a 1600 is a roughly 1 in 500 score.

    • Replies: @BengaliCanadianDude
  42. JimB says:

    Similar test redesigns along the line of the SAT by urban fire departments made it possible to hire more minority fire fighters, which led to disastrous consequences in the field, but what harm does society incur if more dummies, brown or otherwise, get Harvard diplomas? Harvard has always known that only about a hundred or so students in each class make a significant impact on society, so who cares how many affirmative action ciphers they admit? Harvard dummies rarely ascend to positions of power where they can do harm. Except in politics. Cf. John, Ted, and Robert. But they also had Joe’s dough backing them up. So an easier SAT also helps rich legacies and political dynasties. Like the Clintons and the Obama’s.

  43. Kyle says:

    The math section of the sat is easy. The difficulty part is the vocabulary, but if you read the right sat prep book it might have all of the unique words on your test. The vocabulary of the sat prep books is probably catching up to the test makers. All that leaves is the essay, maybe that is easy for gifted writers. I didn’t score very well on the essay even though I think of myself as a great writer, but I’m probably not as good as I think I am.

    • Replies: @Alice
  44. Lot says:
    @SFG

    “I kind of wonder if this is the subtext behind Ron’s work; he wishes his relatives would drop the social justice scam”

    He also wants them to stop worshipping satan, eating Christian babies, killing presidents, faking Muslim terror attacks, defaming poor Adolf with the Holohoax, and controlling the majority-Jewish “Italian” Mafia.

    • Disagree: Dan Hayes
    • LOL: Jack D
  45. I don’t know where Steve got his data from, but I just googled it and it says out of 1.7 million people who took the SAT this past year, only 300 got a perfect score, that’s 0.018%. Perfect ACT is a little higher but still very low, only 0.195% got a 36. I would not call either a high percentage. My kids took the SAT this year, and they actually seem to have bumped up the curve. Lots of their friends are doing worse than they thought they would.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    , @Monsieur le Baron
  46. My kid tells me he knows of one kid from his school whose parents are sending her back to China to take SAT prep. Kinda makes you wonder what kind of “prep” they are actually doing over there.

  47. Dutch Boy says:

    Wasn’t the SAT made easier back the 90s? Is this the 90s redux?

  48. Travis says:

    It is surprising they have not banned the ACT and SAT college admissions testing due to disparate impact. The Government effectively banned IQ testing by employers due to disparate impact. Why are Schools allowed to use cognitive testing while employers are forbidden from using IQ testing ?

    Many Universities realize this and no longer require applicants to take the ACT or SAT
    Schools such as NYU, George Washington, Hofstra, Bryn Mawr,Wake Forrest and the University of Chicago no longer require applicants such tests.

    • Replies: @scrivener3
  49. Alice says:

    because CB has started giving the test overseas in China.

    there is no chance at test security. twice this year they’ve cancelled the exams’ results due to known test item release, but that isn’t enough to catch individuals cheats.

  50. Alice says:

    https://collegereadiness.collegeboard.org/sat/register/find-test-centers

    look at the international list. they can’t even give the test simultaneously around the globe.

  51. Jack D says:
    @HammerJack

    All that notwithstanding, the actual fact is that nerdy Jews tended to do pretty well on the test in the early years.

    Yes, they did and that’s why the Ivies switched to “holistic” admissions. They were always looking for the “well rounded” individual. A “well rounded” Rhodes Scholar type 1600 is a very different (and much rarer) creature than a nerdy Jewish or Asian 1600, but on paper they are both 1600s.

    For a long time, the College Board used to deny that test prep even did anything – what they wanted (but didn’t really have) was a test that was un-crammable which would really show what you had learned in the classroom.

    Now is it “cheating” to learn algebra and geometry after school when your bottom of the class state teachers college grad teachers haven’t really taught it to you all that well? I would say no. In fact it’s admirable, even if you think that the kid should really be at football practice instead. If America is going to have any chance at all in the tech economy (BTW, Apple this week fell to #4 cell phone mfr) it’s going to be because of those kids.

    Is it cheating to practice for the test as if you were practicing for a chess match and to memorize (solely for the purposes of the test) various opening moves and gambits that enable you to finish the test quicker and score higher? I would still say no but that’s really not what the College Board had in mind.

    As I said before, the test prep industry has gotten out ahead of the SAT folks. As others have pointed out, the College Board is crippled in this arms race because anything that they do to make the test genuinely harder and less coachable is going to make the Gap worse and closing the unclosable Gap is their #1 priority. There’s really not much that they can to do make the Gap “better” without turning the test into a complete joke but they figure that they can at least not make it any worse or else there is going to be pressure to get rid of it entirely as a “racist” test. So as the average IQ of the population deteriorates as it browns, they keep making the test easier and more coachable – they don’t dare make it any harder.

    • Replies: @AnotherDad
  52. Bruno says:
    @deMerito

    That’s completely false. At one time, there were 1 in 200k perfect scores , now it’s in 1 in 1500.

    The ceiling has changed dramatically but non linearly so that you have to get ETS data to be able to appreciate a score.

    It’s not like the older the better. For example, in the 1970-1975, Bill Gates Times, it was far easier than in 1980 and the 1960.

  53. J1234 says:

    My son scored a 34 on the ACT within the last year. He’s always been a good student; motivated, but not someone who studies and reads all the time, so I wasn’t really expecting a 34. Easier tests could be an explanation. (Hasn’t taken the SAT yet.) Many companies are producing study guides, which might elevate the scores generally, but he didn’t study for the test, though he does want to retake the ACT to see if he can improve.

    That’s another issue: retaking tests? Could that be a partial explanation for increased ACT scores? Being allowed to retake tests is a profoundly misguided approach, in my opinion. Throughout middle and high school, my kids have always been allowed to retake most tests that they bombed, for one reason or another. They can also turn assignments in late. That is not the way to prepare young people for life. How many public schools do that nowadays? I’m not really expecting the same type of score from him on the SAT (his PSAT was more towards the average range.)

    • Replies: @Hypnotoad666
  54. JimB says:

    The SAT has turned into a reading test where the correct choices for the reading comprehension questions nearly all have a flashing light next them. Hint: it’s always the wokest answer.

  55. @Hypnotoad666

    If I had to guess, I’d say they were trying to engineer smaller gender and/or race gaps by systematically throwing out questions that white and Asian males do relatively better at.

    Well done hypnotic devil toad. I said Jack had nailed it, with Asians continuing to push up.

    But i’d bet this–the College Board taking the very “gappy” questions out back and shooting them–is what’s given this one year pop.

    It’s fundamental: The questions that show the biggests racial and sexual gaps are the questions that are hard. You can kill those questions, but then you kill the discriminatory power at the high end.

    Just another of the endless wonderful benefits of diversity–you can’t have tests that figure who’s really smart.

    • Replies: @Hypnotoad666
  56. @Fen Tiger

    And it is a safe bet, the applicants Oxbridge likes will include very few, if any, who even hint at conservative social attitudes.

  57. @South Texas Guy

    but having knowledge and taking a test, and having knowledge and knowing how to take a test are two different things.

    Standardized tests in the US which are taken by all (I am not talking about a small minority which takes advanced SAT-ACT) are not based on knowledge (and its volume), they are mostly IQ-driven tests. All of them are basically at the academic level of 8th, at best 9th, grade-level in the rest of a developed world.

  58. I have 2 young children and can report that kids are getting smarter than they used to be.

    Only yesterday my six-year-old asked what would happen if the moon escaped the gravity of the earth. It seems like only yesterday Isaac Newton was trying to figure out why apples fell downwards.

    • Replies: @AnotherDad
    , @Anon
  59. @Jack D

    For a long time, the College Board used to deny that test prep even did anything – what they wanted (but didn’t really have) was a test that was un-crammable which would really show what you had learned in the classroom.

    Jack, the first part of this is spot on, but your concluding subordinate clause is not.

    The College Board lied–and continues to lie, AFAIK–about test prep. Obviously test prep can work. The test is a mental task and like other mental tasks you get better with practice. (How much better and how diminishing the returns–empiracal question.)

    But what the College Board wanted was for your Winthrop and Bob from flyover country to sit down and take an IQy test that would indicate their smarts at least somewhat independently of what they “had learned in the classroom”.

    Essentially it was designed to be any IQ test–capturing smarts; “Scholastic Aptitude Test”–but for American high school students who had absorbed a basic HS education and were college motivated. So it was aptitude assessing in more academic plane than the AFQT where you want to figure out of Joe Bob would make a good diesel mechanic or tank gunner. But it wasn’t just a “what you had learned in the classroom”. It really was designed to be an IQ test for motivated high school kids that could pick out the promising flyover country Bobs–or Bills (as in the boy from Hope)–as well as which Winthrops were actually smart not just well prep schooled.

    The old SAT was actually a terrific democratizing, social-mobility-enhancing instrument. A good thing for the nation. (Ok, my biased perspective as a flyover country guy who did very well.) The fact that it’s both been under assault–by minoritarians as racist, sexist–and being beaten into uselessness–first by Jews (Kaplan) and now the Asians–is just a reminder of how much more pleasant life is in a one-people nation.

  60. @Jonathan Mason

    I have 2 young children and can report that kids are getting smarter than they used to be.

    Only yesterday my six-year-old asked what would happen if the moon escaped the gravity of the earth. It seems like only yesterday Isaac Newton was trying to figure out why apples fell downwards.

    LOL. Newton did a bit more than just “try to figure”, don’t pull old Isaac from the pound note just yet–ooops! you already did.

    2nd thing. I’m sure you’re busy cranking in your career, packing away a buck or two (a quid? a pound?). But don’t let the work thing eat your life, enjoy your kids now as well. Best years of my life were from when they were toddler age up through high school, teaching them to drive, watching them run track, etc. Lots of great memories from road trips, hopping on the plane to fly somewhere new, family time together, especially at Christmas, playing games, goofing, chatting. The years where you’re talking about “what would happen if the moon escaped …”–that’s the good stuff.

    Final advice–if capable, of course, have another while you can.

  61. @AnotherDad

    I know from experience that it’s possible to gauge with a fair bit of accuracy a stranger’s level of intelligence and education by asking them roughly five or six well-chosen conversational questions, in person, and both looking and listening carefully to their replies. No paper test necessary, and while I used a letter-grade system rather than trying to match up a numerical IQ score, I was generally fairly correct. The questions are conversational, though, they aren’t word problems like Two trains are traveling to Chicago…

    It’ll never happen of course, but if you had a highly-trained, un-bribe-able professional Bene Gesserit type class of interviewers, you could get everyone ranked in the space of about a half-hour each, no SAT needed, with maybe a second tie-breaker round for some of the tricky cases.

    Of course, within less than five years, our professional interviewing priesthood would somehow magically consist entirely of Jews and Asians, so that solution would never work either.

  62. Jack D says:
    @AnotherDad

    In certain one-people nations (China) the stakes on the college admissions test are even HIGHER than in America. OTOH, Malcolm Gladwell writes about how UNstressful the college admissions process was in (at least two people) Canada when he applied. What you want is not a one-people nation per se but CERTAIN people.

    What’s really going to kill the SAT is this two front war – the SAT could have armored itself against the Kaplans of the world, or against the DeBlasio’s, but not BOTH at the same time.

  63. @AnotherDad

    Just another of the endless wonderful benefits of diversity–you can’t have tests that figure who’s really smart.

    It’s just one of many conundrums that bedevil the Progressive Left because they can’t square their incoherent belief system with reality. To wit:

    1. They believe that an elites class should figure out what’s best for everyone else and then implement the plan, which assumes that this elite cadre is “smarter” than everyone else.

    2. They also believe that all groups are equally “smart,” and thus entitled to equal representation in the “smart” elite.

    3. But no matter what half-way valid definition of “smart” they try to cook up, they just can’t get blacks to make the cut for inclusion in their elite.

    So . . . endless cognitive dissonance and irrational flailing about.

  64. Jack D says:
    @Bruno

    When you take universities with a 75th percentile at or above 1580 level, the total number is greater than the actual scorers.

    Colleges normally release SAT stats for ADMITTED students, not ENROLLED. Since you can apply to more than 1 college, the total # of accepted students with 1580+ can exceed the total # who achieve that score, since some people are appearing in 2 or more counts.

    • Replies: @Lot
  65. Jack D says:
    @Some Random Anon

    Can you show us your source? I believe 300 is an outdated # (and the SAT has mysteriously stopped giving out this data after 2015).

    This is the latest that I could find:

    https://www.quora.com/How-many-people-got-perfect-scores-on-the-redesigned-SAT

    which says its around double your figure or .03%.

    To me at least, 1600’s are just a statistical fluke or a matter of luck because even one question wrong can push you off of an 800, sometimes down to 780, but the intelligence of someone with 1 or 2 wrong and with 0 wrong are indistinguishable. What you really need to look at is the total # in the say 1540+ category, not just the 1600s who are just having a lucky day (they could take it tomorrow and get 1540 and vice versa).

    • Replies: @Lot
  66. @J1234

    That’s another issue: retaking tests? Could that be a partial explanation for increased ACT scores?

    The tests are internally valid so multiple test scores by one individual will just regress/average out to that individual’s “true” core. I don’t have a problem with allowing multiple test-takings. Some people just have a really “bad day.” (Maybe they were sick, or distracted by personal problems, or lost track of time and left half the questions unanswered.) Sh*t happens and its the type of test where taking it twice is not really an unfair advantage.

    On the other hand, there could be some statistical effects based on who is taking the test multiple times:

    1. Are multiple-testers the people who utterly bombed the first time? In that case, their second score will probably be higher than their first score. But if they bombed that bad the first time, they probably aren’t that smart and their second score will probably be well below the general average. So these kids will result in two low scores, thus dragging the average score down.

    Or,

    2. Are the multiple-testers the “tiger kids” who are trying to max out their already-high scores? These kids won’t change their individual scores much the second time around (per regression to the mean), but now there will be two high scores on record, skewing the overall stats up a bit.

  67. Lot says:
    @Paul Jolliffe

    “thought Steve learned that all of those billion programs in NYC and elsewhere – free prep to boost NAM’s scores – boomeranged because it was Asian and white kids who actually took advantage of the free prep, not the black or hispanic kids.”

    Sounds right to me, but the share of total US whites in the NYC area is much smaller than share of Asians. Maybe 4% of US white HS students live in metro NYC v 20% of asian.

    The smart kids who go without any formal SAT prep are still going to be extremely white. I was one myself, I spent like 2 hours scanning an old “Barron’s guide to the SAT” in the school library, and that was the complete extent of my SAT prep.

    I also took the SAT instead of the ACT for no good reason at all even though I was in an ACT region. The SAT just seemed to be more famous in pop culture.

    When I took the PSAT, I didn’t even read a guide first, or know I was doing it in advance. They just grabbed me in home room and told me I was taking it, having registered me and paid the fee without me knowing, though they did this for several years in a row so it wasn’t 100% cold when I took it “for real.” I think they had some kind of grant as each year they pulled the 10 or so smartest kids in 6-8th grades to take the PSAT.

  68. Lot says:
    @Jack D

    “but the intelligence of someone with 1 or 2 wrong and with 0 wrong are indistinguishable”

    That’s not true.

    Confidence intervals don’t mean there isn’t likely a difference, just that we can’t say with 95% certainty.

    A kid with a 1600 is still more likely than not smarter than one with a 1590.

    Get me a group of 1600s and one of 1590s and enough other stats about them, I can distinguish them.

    • Replies: @Jack D
  69. Lot says:
    @Jack D

    The standard data is of the actual enrolled freshman class, or was when I was current on these issues.

    Some also disclose info about admitted and rejected students. But that isn’t what goes into US News rankings etc.

    The big loophole is transfer students who are not counted at all.

  70. Hopscotch says:
    @HammerJack

    It’s very true. Basically all education pre-1920’s is portrayed as backward, either geared towards rural simpletons or WASPs focused on no-helmet football. In reality, most of the dumbing down in education began in the 1940’s, after the introduction of standardized tests. It’s also hard not to notice the anti-Gentile mythology here.

    There was a Darwinian aspect to late 19th and early 20th century education, where children had to (1) prove they were better-suited to the classroom than to the farm, shop, etc and (2) prove they were actually ready for each successive grade, otherwise they were failed out with minor stigma. Unfair? Yep. But it led to a system where the average student at a flagship state university during this time was equivalent to a modern Ivy student, with or without the SAT.

    See for example, 8th grade exams from Kansas (1895) and Kentucky (1912). A large portion of freshman at Ivies today would struggle with these questions. Additionally, having looked at old college math and engineering exams from this era, they were every bit as difficult as today’s exams. Probably the only remaining undergraduate fields that kept this rigor are the licensed engineering fields ( also originating during this era), like electrical, chemical, mechanical, etc.

    Even the Harvard Entrance Exam of 1869 did a better job of selecting on overall intellect for a liberal arts environment than today’s system. Suspect a lot of the effort to deemphasize Latin, Greek, and Western Civilization in higher education, came from Jewish intellectuals who were not eager to immerse themselves in 2500 years of Gentile history.

    • Replies: @HammerJack
  71. Anon[143] • Disclaimer says:
    @Jonathan Mason

    I don’t think it’s kids getting smarter. It’s just with the internet, computers, tablets, and cell phones, everyone has access to a monster-size encyclopedia of information these days. Plenty of middle-class households in my youth did not own one single book except for the Bible, and TV was limited to 3 channels of little intellectual content. Radio (though it had much better music than today) had little intellectual content in its brief news stories. Kids read the comics in the newspapers, but didn’t usually read the articles until they were in junior high because the articles were written for adult-level comprehension.

    Now, it’s possible to find a massive amount of online information written at a child’s reading level. If a child wants instruction, there are plenty of teachers who have put materials online for their own classes that can be read by children who are not even pupils in those schools. There are millions of off-copyright books available at all reading levels, and any student who wants to get ahead can teach themselves very easily.

  72. @Travis

    The SAT has disparit impact, but because of affirmative action or diversity, admissions does not

  73. @Some Random Anon

    That sounds like pre-1994 norms. Lots of people get perfect scores these days.

  74. Michael S says:

    Preposterous; clearly, America is just getting smarter by virtue of the many new imported Americans. Diversity is our strength, and also our intellect!

  75. @SFG

    Yeah, but not test scores; Jews are far along enough in the assimilation/status pipeline to get in as legacies at this point. I doubt their test scores are that much higher than the mean, though if they dropped the social justice and went back to studying (but why would they do that?) they might give the Asians a run for their money.

    Jews–the Ashkenazi–are smart. To middle-man exploit a population, you have to be smarter–or at least the selection will strongly be to get smarter. Sure you select for in-group tribalism, cunning, hustle and low-empathy as well. But the smart selection is definitely there. So middle-manning on top of white-gentiles who are one of the smarter populations around, the Ashkenazi had to get smart and stay smarter. (Essentially they “stole” IQ point selection that should have gone to whites, being their own middle-men.)

    The various snippets of data, i’ve seen suggest that the Ashkenazi mean is somewhere around a 110 IQ, skewed strongly relative to whites toward verbal, through, of course, their math is strong; and only their spatial skills are mediocre relative to whites. This all makes sense given their economic niche. And it should correspond to something like 80 points on the verbal and 70 points on the math SAT relative to whites. I doubt very much that that gap isn’t still there.

    What they have lost is i think a bit of that immigrant drive and “i’ll show them” outsider drive. Afterall they are the elite class in the US. Who the heck are they going to “show”? Those sort of cultural attitudinal components–try hard and show the goyim–were probably worth another 50 points or so (combined).

    And of course one reason the Jews just don’t show up as dramatically now is they face these Asians–the Chinese with a long test taking tradition–who are in the midst of the immigrant drive and hustle to get ahead. And also everyone–even flyover UMC gentiles–is stuck on this stupid Yale-or-Jail treadmill, with immigration creating continual downward mobility for all Americans. So “you must do well to get into a ‘good school’ and get ahead” is no longer a Jewish monopoly.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    , @Mr McKenna
  76. I’d actually advocate against the SAT.

    Measure specific things. Build measurements for math ability and measurements for every other type of ability: music, sports, engineering, research, programming.

    Consider math. The SAT emphasizes basic math skill, basic trig, basic geometry, word problems, and basic stats. I’d argue that for certain engineers and mathematicians and even programmers working with data, it’s way too easy, and doesn’t even measure many important more advanced areas. And for most other adults, who don’t use math in their day to day jobs at all, their math ability is completely irrelevant, and they shouldn’t be branded with this score so heavily.

  77. Jack D says:
    @AnotherDad

    The other reason Jews aren’t showing as strongly any more is that there are a lot of Jews who are no longer fully Jewish. Quickest way to wipe out that 10 point advantage is to intermarry with a population with a lower mean. Even if you marry a smart non-Jew, every group’s children regress toward the group mean and hapas regress toward the average of the 2 groups.

  78. Manxman says:
    @Sam Lowry

    You got it. What people don’t realize is that massive 200-pt gains are pretty rare, and even when they happen, in the case of kids who score 1600 or even just 1500 you’re looking at someone who would have score 1300, 1400 without test prep– i.e., a pretty smart kid to begin with. You’re not turning a 1000-pt kid into a 1600 kid or even a 1500 kid.

    The other piece is that even more modest gains of 100-125 pts aren’t that common either: test prep firms are known to advertise “score gains” that are actually based on their own shoddy versions of the SAT, GRE etc. whose questions are often poor depictions of the ones on the actual test. And that’s U.S. test prep firms; I doubt these Asian cram schools are any more honest–quite frankly, they seem to be scams, preying on over-anxious helicopter parents determined to give their children every possible advantage in the college admissions game (yet another scam, as was made clear earlier this year). Which brings me to the next point: people seem to put aside the Law of Diminishing Returns when signing their kids up for these test prep courses (or dismissing the performance of high scorers): yes, students may improve their scores with diligent effort, but at some point even putting a massive amount of effort just doesn’t do anything to their scores. They hit a wall. They’ll get the 1300s, 1400s and then have to put the pencil down for good.

    Others don’t really have a wall. They’re the ones that would have pushed through the current 1600 ceiling if the SAT were harder (like it was in the 80s). I suspect that a substantial portion of these top scorers fall into this category – the ones that Steve seems to be referencing now. They’d be like those in the 1450s, 1460s, the average SAT scores for admitted Harvard students in the 1980s (the whites and Asians, at least). Back then, the SAT was harder to game, and test prep wasn’t that sophisticated. I don’t even think cram schools were a thing. So you’d think colleges would want to keep it that way, because the SAT was a bit more accurate an indicator of ability. But because they are in the business of manipulating merit, no way. Fudge the idea of merit, give everyone high scores, and then you can admit whomever the heck you want.

  79. @Reg Cæsar

    I don’t understand the point of your story. When the term “bowling” is used without an adjective, ten pin is assumed.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
  80. @Jack D

    To be fair, there is something about Shiksas.

    • Replies: @HammerJack
  81. Manxman says:
    @keuril

    Actually the SAT designers, College Board and Ivy league admissions officers did meet in winter 2013 to address cheating scandals and allegations of discrimination. This does not mean that colleges conspired to change the test to do what Steve alleges, but it does mean they have more than a passing relationship with the people who create the test. Months later, the College Board did announce new changes to the SAT, so it is fully possible that they demanded changes.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
  82. Jack D says:
    @Lot

    A kid with a 1600 is still more likely than not smarter than one with a 1590.

    Get me a group of 1600s and one of 1590s and enough other stats about them, I can distinguish them.

    You could say something about the group but not any individual. If you pick out a random individual within the confidence interval, the guy with 1600 might have a “true” score of 1560 and vice versa.

  83. Anonymous[261] • Disclaimer says:

    Sad, Asians think these tactics can work for them.

    https://nypost.com/2019/08/06/angry-asian-american-protesters-swarm-richard-carranzas-car-in-brooklyn/

    Angry Asian-American protesters swarm Richard Carranza’s car in Brooklyn

    Tensions between Asian-American parents and Schools Chancellor Richard Carranza boiled over Tuesday, as a group of furious protesters shouting “fire the racist” swarmed his chauffeur-driven city car outside an invitation-only community meeting in Brooklyn.

    The sign-waving demonstrators couldn’t see the embattled schools boss through the vehicle’s tinted windows — but were able to clearly express their anger over changes to admissions policy at the city’s elite schools that they believe will hurt Asian students.

    “Fire Carranza!” the crowd of mostly Asian Americans yelled, as the black sedan was forced to slowly inch into a side gate at IS 31 in Bay Ridge with NYPD officers at the sides keeping hecklers at bay.

    The polarizing schools chief was visiting the school to take part in closed-door “community chat” with representatives from five area school districts. The gathering was not listed on his official schedule for the day and was closed to press.

    Some elected members from local parental advisory boards objected to the DOE-controlled guest list and accused the department of operating without proper transparency and inclusion.

    Yifang Chen, a plaintiff in an anti-Asian discrimination suit against the DOE and member of Community Education Council 20 in Dyker Heights, said she asked to attend the meeting but was rejected.

    “There are a lot of Asians in my area,” said Chen, whose district is considered an academic juggernaut. “All I know is that no Asian members of our CEC were in this meeting. We were not represented.”

    The DOE said that district superintendents were put in charge of curating Tuesday’s guest list and were asked to tap a diverse selection of parents and stakeholders.

  84. @AnotherDad

    Sure you select for in-group tribalism, cunning, hustle and low-empathy as well. But the smart selection is definitely there.

    A combination of ethnic nepotism and malice toward the rest of humanity is essentially enough right there. Pretty much as you say.

    The various snippets of data, i’ve seen suggest that the Ashkenazi mean is somewhere around a 110 IQ

    Episcopals are about the same, yet they’ve wrecked a grand total of zero societies in their entire history. I sense an argument coming on…

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  85. Kronos says:
    @The Germ Theory of Disease

    “As to this whole perfect score question, the answer is easy. The Asians are just getting better at cheating.”

    I’m sure hiring people to take the test for you is pretty high. Especially when switching one Asian student for another. Test examiners will be very uneasy about bringing up facial similarities of race.

  86. Kronos says:
    @Jack D

    Who do you think is more responsible for goy intermarriage?

    Jewish men or women?

    • Replies: @Jack D
    , @Hopscotch
  87. @Jack D

    I think the infrastructure for studying for the SAT, for those so inclined (again mostly Asians) just keeps getting better and better – it’s a sort of an arms race between the College Board and the colleges on one side and the cram schools and Asians on the other.

    Two of the first 4 results for a search for “Perfect SAT score”:

    https://blog.prepscholar.com/how-to-get-a-perfect-sat-score-by-a-2400-sat-scorer

    https://magoosh.com/hs/sat/2018/perfect-sat-score-stories/

    Unfortunately, it still means dick in the D.I.E. age:

    “Although top scores on either test are certainly special, admissions officers at elite universities are looking for something, ahem, more special. Stanford calls its admissions screening “holistic” and is searching for “intellectual vitality” and extraordinary achievements among the piles of applicants. ”

    https://www.mercurynews.com/2018/04/02/perfect-act-sat-scores-dont-mean-admission-to-top-universities/

  88. @EH

    now a 1600 is a roughly 1 in 500 score.

    https://blog.prepscholar.com/how-to-get-a-perfect-sat-score-by-a-2400-sat-scorer

    Out of the 1.7 million students who take the test every year, only about 300 get the highest possible SAT score

    • Replies: @Jack D
  89. @Reg Cæsar

    “Bowling was invented by a brother I suspect
    Cuz you throw a black ball
    At some light pins with red necks
    And yell “Strike!” when all them rednecks fall
    And if you miss a few?
    Cool, you get another ball
    And if you miss ’em all
    The black ball winds up in the gutter
    No coincidences in this life, my brother.”

  90. ogunsiron says:

    Have any institutions implement the following admissions scheme, to insure maximum diversity in enrollment?

    Set a very low threshold for passing the test. Set the threshold low enough that pretty much *everyone* who takes the test passes. Among people who passed the test, choose a certain number of them, at random, to be enrolled. Most crucially, manipulate the pool of test passers itself by making sure members of the target protected classes are made more aware of the test. Creatively put obstacles in the path of the “privileged”. Do not worry about “disparate impact” since members of the deemed privileged classes don’t get to complain about disparate impact.

  91. Jack D says:
    @Kronos

    This is like saying who has (heterosexual) sex more – men or women? It takes 2 to tango.

    • Replies: @J.Ross
    , @Kronos
  92. Jack D says:
    @BengaliCanadianDude

    300 is outdated. As of 2014 it was 600 and then they stopped releasing the #.

  93. Hopscotch says:
    @Kronos

    Jewish men married outside the culture more than the women do, although it has converged recently. Granted, Judaism is technically matrilinear.

    The rate of overall intermarriage is high, around 60%, with the bulk of it coming from the more educated, well-to-do Jews (the genetic catches). The remaining Orthodox Jews (the genetic bumpkins) tend to marry among each other, with only 2% marrying Gentiles. This latter group is the future of Judaism, going forward.

    • Replies: @Kronos
  94. does steve not know that perfect scores increased by 100x after the 1995 re-centering? and that test scores no matter how high are never enough in the US, but always enough in almost every other country? and that as a result the US elite is the dumbest, pushiest, and most obedient in the world?

  95. J.Ross says:
    @Jack D

    But you can look at which individuals are knocking boots and establish that all of the women are going after a tiny fraction of the men. The ethnic parallel would be to annotate class to ethny: who is willing to not only outmarry but outmarry down (insofar as that’s not already implied)?

  96. @Manxman

    The clients do have influence upon the product they buy.

  97. Kronos says:
    @Jack D

    I vaguely remember David Cole writing about this a few years back. During the 1960s, intermarriage between Catholics, Protestants, and Jews became more acceptably common. Unfortunately, Jewish men bolted en masse. They essentially ran for their lives. This in turn, made Jewish women create feminism. A means of poisoning the female goy population to make Jewish women more preferable. But then feminism became this multi-billion business/racket that’s remained for 60+ years.

    So I always viewed Jewish men as more as the instigator of intermarriage. Despite Philip Roth stressing that male Jews are more morally pressured to marry inside The Tribe.

  98. Kronos says:
    @Hopscotch

    I’m saving this, thanks!

  99. Alice says:
    @Kyle

    The essay is optional, and the score on it is separate from the 800 scale verbal test score.

  100. Anon[378] • Disclaimer says:
    @Tom Verso

    > shows that in if theses schools admitted solely on SAT scores the percentage of Asians would drop from current 11% to 10%.

    Your wrong assumption is that there are infinite number of Asian American students. For 200 colleges there are a lot of student places to fill. A small child will know that the Asian Americans with limited number at 5.4% of the US population simply running short to fill those positions.

    You are a sucker for spin.

    • Replies: @HammerJack
  101. @ScarletNumber

    300 in tenpin, 800 in SAT… they used to mean something.

    Now they don’t.

    We need a candlepin version of an aptitude test.

  102. @Anon

    So you may tink, insulting type person! But in fact there are approximately five billion Asians at just three American colleges: MIT, Cornell, and Caltech! So if you do the math, you can see that we not running out of Asians very soon! (And you can do the math, right?)

  103. @ScarletNumber

    Considering what wealthy blacks and jews will pay for them, they might almost be the ultimate status symbol. For those two groups anyway.

  104. bjondo says:

    Crammers, testers may get high scores and admissions to elite schools
    they won’t be the Jobs, Teslas, Hughes, Feynmans.

    They will be elite on paper

    Their achievements will be barren.

  105. bjondo says:
    @Jack D

    Quickest way to wipe out that 10 point advantage is to intermarry with a population with a lower mean.

    what explains the 20 point under (probably more but Israel is graded on a biased curve) for the 100% Jew State

  106. Anonymous[332] • Disclaimer says:
    @Jack D

    The other reason Jews aren’t showing as strongly any more is that there are a lot of Jews who are no longer fully Jewish.

    It isn’t that either. The ones who came in the first half of the 20th Century were the best and the brightest. Naturally, you will get regression to the mean in their descendants. That is one factor. The other factor is that the Jews who have immigrated more recently are not generally from that best and brightest pool, and they therefore dilute the demographic.

  107. Anonymous[332] • Disclaimer says:
    @Mr McKenna

    A combination of ethnic nepotism and malice toward the rest of humanity is essentially enough right there.

    Why is malice toward the rest of humanity important?

    Episcopals are about the same, yet they’ve wrecked a grand total of zero societies in their entire history.

    What accounts for the difference?

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