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Why Is There So Little Concern About Height Privilege?
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John Singer Sargent’s Lord Ribblesdale

As a person of tallness, I’m struck by how little approbation there is at present toward height prejudice in favor of the tall.

Nobody these days gets additional Intersectional Pokemon Points for being short.

In Barbara Tuchman’s The Proud Tower, she notes that Tory prime minister Lord Salisbury’s cabinet of 1895 averaged 6 feet in height.

Lord Salisbury himself was 6’4″, although he slouched.

Queen Victoria’s subjects, however, averaged much less.

The Liberal Lord Ribblesdale epitomized the height~upper class connection:

Screenshot 2018-04-20 02.07.57

In 1895, to be tall suggested that you enjoyed a privileged upbringing, which is a good thing in a mate, because it suggests you also are in better health and have richer relatives.

On the other hand, these days, height is mostly heritable. And it’s not clear that being genetically taller is all that much better. For example, it modestly boosts one’s chances of cancer, presumably because you have more cells than can go wrong. I

had cancer in my 30s and it really wasn’t a good thing.

So, our culture’s prejudice in favor of the tall is kind of obsolete.

And yet nobody cares.

 
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  1. AndrewR says:

    How much of Robert Reich’s utter insufferableness can be attributed to the fact that he’s a mini-man of 4’11″?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anon
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2B-15nhM3mc
    , @Peter Johnson
    That seems very unfair to Robert Reich, who has managed to get a mainstream-published book, full to the brim with HBD-consistent science, through the HBD-censorship system. Even if he wants to claim otherwise, he is an HBD hero. So we should be nice to him; he is helping us to tear down the barriers to open scientific enquiry.
    , @Pericles
    Reich should file his teeth and go on an exhibition tour.
    , @Lugash
    Is he really that different than any other lib? The worst thing he did was the 'fuck giving whipepo jobs' congressional testimony, as far as I remember. This is the standard liberal position, even if they won't admit it.
    , @Steve-O
    What about unattractive people? Why is money the only thing that needs redistributing? What about sex? I always figured that people might not argue so hard for wealth redistribution of a homeless person also got to have sex with their spouse due to using the same logic for sex redistribution.
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  2. Mishra says:

    Tall people all end up with back trouble from a lifetime of dealing with a world designed for short people. Every one of whom resents you because you make an extra $79 a month and pull in a higher class of babe. It’s not worth it.

    Lawn mowers, pool tables, church pews, airline seats, sports cars, kitchen counters, stairs, chairs, garden rakes, gym equipment, office furniture, one size fits all, huh.

    Read More
    • Replies: @MikeatMikedotMike
    I am 6' 4" and while in the Marine Corps I spent 14 months of my life living on 2 Naval vessels. By the end of it I might as well have been the the Hunchback of Notre Dame because banging one's head on every low handing hatchway, pipe, bracket, or duct produces that adaptation.

    I would also add toilets, snow shovels, commercial vehicle day cabs, and pants to your list of discrimination.
    , @denjae
    Yep. . . a life-time filled with bucks and babes

    and being known for noticing, appreciating, deprecating the design of things . . .

    a trait based simply on the fact that most things don’t fit.
    , @Anonym
    https://www.firstmet.com/dating-blog/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/male-height-chart.png

    The higher class of babe is totally worth it IMO. Or the greater frequency of average class babe.

    I am not sure if the above is based on stated height or real height. Most guys add an inch or two to their height. But 6'2 is about optimal.

    A shoe with a bit of a heel is the male equivalent of the silicone bra insert.
    , @Buzz Mohawk
    You said it and I missed your comment until now. We live in a world of microaggressions against tall people!

    Oh and to be white and tall? Terrible! To be noticed everywhere like that. Even worse is to be tall, white and good-looking. It's a living hell! Everybody looks at you. It's like being a paranoid, race-obsessed black person!
    , @Colleen Pater
    we could write a book about what sucks about being tall but we all know none of us would trade an inch for all of it. Ill keep paying extra for my clothes i wont fly commercial anymore though i just cant
    , @Kratoklastes
    The last place I lived in had a kitchen benchtop that was 15cm (6") higher than normal - it was a joy for me, but The Lovely (who is 5'7") actually found it difficult to use the sink, because the point of her elbows were slightly below the level of the benchtop. She used to look like the was having to 'reach in' to use the sink.
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  3. Anon[425] • Disclaimer says: • Website
    @AndrewR
    How much of Robert Reich's utter insufferableness can be attributed to the fact that he's a mini-man of 4'11"?

    Read More
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  4. @AndrewR
    How much of Robert Reich's utter insufferableness can be attributed to the fact that he's a mini-man of 4'11"?

    That seems very unfair to Robert Reich, who has managed to get a mainstream-published book, full to the brim with HBD-consistent science, through the HBD-censorship system. Even if he wants to claim otherwise, he is an HBD hero. So we should be nice to him; he is helping us to tear down the barriers to open scientific enquiry.

    Read More
    • Agree: YetAnotherAnon
    • Replies: @AndrewR
    Are you trolling me? You are talking about David Reich. I was talking about Robert Reich.
    , @flyover hick

    That seems very unfair to Robert Reich, who has managed to get a mainstream-published book, full to the brim with HBD-consistent science, through the HBD-censorship system. Even if he wants to claim otherwise, he is an HBD hero. So we should be nice to him; he is helping us to tear down the barriers to open scientific enquiry.
     
    You're thinking of David Reich.

    AndrewR is refering to the diminutive economist Robert Reich, the evil twin of Dr. Miguelito Loveless.
    , @The Anti-Gnostic
    He means Adolf Reich, and he was actually 5'9". Conquered most of Europe from a country the size of Montana.
    , @International Jew
    Wrong Reich.
    https://youtu.be/kWliylnxSrA
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  5. Anon[425] • Disclaimer says: • Website

    Short victimhood might be a tough sell given that so many men of power were hardly tall.

    Napoleon is the most famous example. Stalin and Mussolini were 5’5. Deng was 4’11. I hear Alexander the Great wasn’t tall.

    Germanic barbarians were bigger but shorter Romans beat them before they got beaten.

    Chinese aren’t that tall but they called Japanese ‘dwarfs’, so Japanese must have been shorter. But they sure made mincemeat of so many Chinese.

    Zuck isn’t tall but he sure is loaded.

    Also, is Height Preference really a Height Prejudice?

    Many people think of prejudice as meaning ‘you not allowed’.

    In contrast, preference means ‘you are favored’.

    There is similarity between prejudice and preference but still a difference.

    So, an organization may have no anti-short policy BUT may still prefer taller people.

    Read More
    • Replies: @prosa123
    Napoleon was not as short as legend holds. Reports in English newspapers at the time of his rise started the legend by often saying that he stood 5'2", when in fact this was a misinterpretation from a pre-metric French system of measurement then in use. He actually was 5'6", which was only an inch or two less than the average European male of his time. In person, Napoleon seemed shorter than he actually was because he always surrounded himself by a team of huge hulking bodyguards.
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  6. sabril says:

    I would guess it’s because height prejudice disproportionately affects men.

    The Western world is intensely gynocentric, i.e. obsessed with the wants and needs and issues of women but cares very little about men. Men compete for wealth, status, etc., and the ones who come up short (sometimes literally) are thought to merit very little societal concern as a group.

    You can compare height bias with bias against fat people, which gets a good deal of attention. Presumably because bias against fat people disproportionately affects women.

    Read More
    • Agree: Tyrion 2, L Woods
    • Replies: @Wency
    True.

    Also, this is compounded by the fact that women are generally crueler/less sympathetic to men they find unattractive than men are to unattractive women (at least among adults). Women feel the need to maintain the "bitch shield" to actively repel such men, while men don't need to do this.

    But also this factor plays out mostly in the dating world. And there's never going to be much of a push for equality in that arena.

    It's true that there are also some career advantages to being tall, but I think this is most true in politics and traditional corporate management sorts of roles. If you're anything but impressively tall, handsome, and charming, you should avoid these sorts of career tracks. Not hard to do.

    I'm 5'8", and I've never felt the slightest bit of impact to my career from being short. But relative to my 6'+ friends, I've felt the impact in terms of women's reactions my entire adult life.

    , @AnotherDad

    You can compare height bias with bias against fat people, which gets a good deal of attention. Presumably because bias against fat people disproportionately affects women.
     
    And yet the bias against fat people is completely fair, because people chose to be fat.
    , @little spoon
    I think preference for tall men is more like preference for women with pretty faces than preference for slender women. Being fat has many verifiable practical disadvantages that are still relevant in the modern world. It affects health outcomes for nearly everything from lifespan to the ability to deliver a healthy baby. OTOH, being tall and being pretty create no practical advantages for anything necessary in the modern world. They are valued for the sake of themselves.

    People pity short men and unpretty ladies. But I guess these are not SJW causes because everyone has always known it sucks to be either of those things and it was never considered a character failing to be those things. SJW causes focus on forms of deviance that were once thought to be sinful or degenerate like homosexuality and transgenderism. Or they focus on things like race as being black was once thought of as synonymous with being primitive or less rationally developed.
    , @Alec Leamas (hard at work)

    I would guess it’s because height prejudice disproportionately affects men.

    The Western world is intensely gynocentric, i.e. obsessed with the wants and needs and issues of women but cares very little about men. Men compete for wealth, status, etc., and the ones who come up short (sometimes literally) are thought to merit very little societal concern as a group.

    You can compare height bias with bias against fat people, which gets a good deal of attention. Presumably because bias against fat people disproportionately affects women.

     

    Isn't there a whole species of memes about this, cannibalizing the dating profiles of fat (often short as well) women who state that they won't date a man under 6' or whatever?

    I think your thesis is sound - whatever bonus height confers largely inures to men, and whatever detriment shortness confers falls principally on men too. Most women are solipsists at heart so they don't really care if "height-ism" isn't a thing because it doesn't affect them. Most women however fear getting fat and unlovable, so these fat acceptance movements have a more favorable female audience. It's also the case that women relish sabotaging their rivals, so convincing chubby girls to embrace getting disgustingly fat on the pretext of self-love is something that appeals to the female Id too.
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  7. What seems to be a preference for height is almost always an affectation that people employ in order to prepossess themselves of the favor of someone whom they desire for quite other purposes. “Height” is sort of a generic compliment you can pay someone, such as “strength” or “handsomeness” would be. For instance, if you were trying to move a couch into your new apartment and saw some guys milling about, a good way to solicit their help would be to say something like, “Would any of you strong young men be willing to lend me a hand here?” That should not be taken to construe that the men in question were particularly strong, or that raw strength was the most desired quality under any circumstance. It is more a case of recognizing that an adequate strength exists in the subjects and, wishing to take advantage of it for your own purposes, flattering it through affect compensation. This only works because most people would prefer to think of themselves as strong as opposed to weak, and will demand this “tribute” from you in exchange for their services. There is a complicated psychological transaction going on here, apart from which it is not clear that burliness confers any particular advantage per se. If the consideration where simply a material one (and if, as the evolutionists insist, life continuously developed itself along the fitness principle) then a trend towards increasing strength would be everywhere and always observed. There would be no accounting for the extreme disparity between the mouse and the elephant, and no way of explaining the variation even within a species. That the compliment is merely a relative one is amply demonstrated by the fact that girls will refer to a man they like as “tall” even when he is barely pushing 5’9″. As everyone has felt, it is much easier to give convincing displays of strength when that strength is appreciated and wanted—a subject meriting further examination.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Tyrion 2
    Were you taller you would realise that women of all ages would, on meeting a tall man, remark upon their height and then remark upon it again and again in much the same way that a cartoonish troglodyte of a man might remark upon a woman's ample breasts.

    It is a sexual characteristic in much the same way. When I point this out to #metoo type women, they go quiet very fast.

    , @Chrisnonymous
    I think it's quite clear why you're single. Sorry to say...
    , @Ripple Earthdevil
    I would read your comment if you broke it up into multiple paragraphs.
    , @Old Palo Altan
    The elephant has been winnowed by natural selection to fit his niche ever more successfully, and the mouse to fit his. Change the particularities of that niche slowly, and the species will adapt (rather, it will be adapted by natural selection, which is all that survival of the fittest actually means), leading to species variation. Change it too quickly however and the species will die out.
    Alas, this is happening with the elephant; alas, it is not happening with the mouse.
    , @ben tillman

    What seems to be a preference for height is almost always an affectation that people employ in order to prepossess themselves of the favor of someone whom they desire for quite other purposes.
     
    No, it's not. The phenomenon is most obvious where the people are strangers and know nothing about each other besides their appearance and location.
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  8. Andrew M says:

    One of the problems that black men in racially-mixed countries face is that they’re the tallest kids in their school year, in an environment where rules are poorly enforced. They hit adulthood only to discover that they can’t keep intimidating smaller people with impunity. The habits they build up in childhood (using the implicit threat of violence to get what they want, without fear of intervention from the authorities) conflict with the reality of adulthood (the authorities will come to the defence of intimidated Starbucks employees).

    Better enforcement of good behavior in school might make a meaningful difference here.

    Read More
    • Agree: Autochthon
    • Replies: @Old Palo Altan
    Send all those blacks to Holland, and they'd soon learn what it is like to be short.
    , @Fun
    Black adults aren't taller than that white adults, though. And the early-onset puberty height advantage vanishes during high school. Any sort of "intimidation" is mostly psychological.
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  9. Hey, where have you been on this Steve? I’m a short guy and many years ago I was pushing for a protected status for short men (men only). Unfair competition for the favor of the ladies from those whose benefit from “tall-privilege.”

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  10. unit472 says:

    James Comey cares. In fact he promoted Andrew McCabe to his own towering status when he declared McCabe ‘Stood tall” against the ‘small people’ who were his detractors. He also noted that President Trump did not appear as tall as he actually is probably because Comey did not like the size of Trumps hands. According to the WaPo writer who reviewed Comey’s book Comey also had claimed to have used his height to play basketball for William and Mary but this turned out to be untrue.

    OTOH we have the diminutive Mark Zuckerberg sitting on a ‘booster’ seat for his testimony before Congress. Jeff Bezos is another short billionaire. Don’t know how tall Bill Gates, Warren Buffett and Larry Ellison are but my impression is they are of average height.

    Billionaires seemed to have been taller in days gone by. Howard Hughes and Henry Ford seemed to be tall lanky men and John Rockefeller also appeared to be above average in height but I could be wrong.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Seamus Day
    Bill Gates = 5'10

    Jeff Bezos = 5'8

    Warren Buffett = 5'10

    Mark Zuckerberg = 5'7.5

    Larry Ellison = 6'3

    David Koch = 6'5

    Michael Bloomberg = 5'8

    Larry Page = 5'11

    Sergey Brin = 5'8

    Kevin Systrom = 6'5

    Paul Allen = 5'10

    Sean Parker = 5'10

    Elon Musk = 6'2

    Steve Ballmer = 6'5

    The average height of an American billionaire is 5’11.5” or over 2” taller than the average American male.

    , @AnotherDad

    Don’t know how tall Bill Gates, Warren Buffett and Larry Ellison are but my impression is they are of average height.
     
    I can tell you from personal experience that Bill Gates is my height (within less than an inch)--bog standard American white average. On the other hand, never been around him, but pretty sure Larry Ellison is a tall guy.

    Billionaires seem more average now, because relative to other people they are more average because with adequate nutrition most Americans can grow to their natural genetic height. Height is correlated with IQ and other positive traits--but the correlation with height isn't particularly strong.
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  11. AndrewR says:
    @Peter Johnson
    That seems very unfair to Robert Reich, who has managed to get a mainstream-published book, full to the brim with HBD-consistent science, through the HBD-censorship system. Even if he wants to claim otherwise, he is an HBD hero. So we should be nice to him; he is helping us to tear down the barriers to open scientific enquiry.

    Are you trolling me? You are talking about David Reich. I was talking about Robert Reich.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anonym
    I bet Robert Reich was called "Reach" in school.
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  12. Anonymous[905] • Disclaimer says:

    Apparently, 1960s British pop group the ‘Small Faces’ were so-named because they all, literally, had small faces.

    Read More
    • Replies: @res
    Who knows what is real and what is PR, but this account differs: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Small_Faces#Origins_(1965)

    The group chose the name, Small Faces, for many reasons: because of the members' small physical stature[12] and "A 'Face' was somebody special, more than just a snappy dresser, he was Mister Cool."[13]
     
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  13. Anonymous[905] • Disclaimer says:

    James Comey makes even the 6′ 2″ Donald Trump look small by comparison.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Charles Pewitt

    James Comey makes even the 6′ 2″ Donald Trump look small by comparison.

     

    Comey may have a half a foot on Trumpy, but Trumpy is built like a linebacker. Comey is all Celtic muttonhead like a David Byrne type. Trumpy in person is a fellow you wouldn't go out of your way to agitate.
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  14. Tyrion 2 says:
    @Intelligent Dasein
    What seems to be a preference for height is almost always an affectation that people employ in order to prepossess themselves of the favor of someone whom they desire for quite other purposes. "Height" is sort of a generic compliment you can pay someone, such as "strength" or "handsomeness" would be. For instance, if you were trying to move a couch into your new apartment and saw some guys milling about, a good way to solicit their help would be to say something like, "Would any of you strong young men be willing to lend me a hand here?" That should not be taken to construe that the men in question were particularly strong, or that raw strength was the most desired quality under any circumstance. It is more a case of recognizing that an adequate strength exists in the subjects and, wishing to take advantage of it for your own purposes, flattering it through affect compensation. This only works because most people would prefer to think of themselves as strong as opposed to weak, and will demand this "tribute" from you in exchange for their services. There is a complicated psychological transaction going on here, apart from which it is not clear that burliness confers any particular advantage per se. If the consideration where simply a material one (and if, as the evolutionists insist, life continuously developed itself along the fitness principle) then a trend towards increasing strength would be everywhere and always observed. There would be no accounting for the extreme disparity between the mouse and the elephant, and no way of explaining the variation even within a species. That the compliment is merely a relative one is amply demonstrated by the fact that girls will refer to a man they like as "tall" even when he is barely pushing 5'9". As everyone has felt, it is much easier to give convincing displays of strength when that strength is appreciated and wanted---a subject meriting further examination.

    Were you taller you would realise that women of all ages would, on meeting a tall man, remark upon their height and then remark upon it again and again in much the same way that a cartoonish troglodyte of a man might remark upon a woman’s ample breasts.

    It is a sexual characteristic in much the same way. When I point this out to #metoo type women, they go quiet very fast.

    Read More
    • Agree: Autochthon
    • Replies: @The Anti-Gnostic
    Tall women have the same problem in the other direction. Attractive 6' women have a smaller pool of sexually attractive men to compete over. There's probably a roughly golden-mean of bodily proportion ratios between sexual partners. As I heard one woman put it, she wouldn't have sex with someone she felt she could hold in her lap.

    An outlier phenomenon I've noticed is tall men with poor self-image/confidence. Short men seem to have powerful compensatory measures that kick in but I've met tall men who seem unable to capitalize on their height in the sexual market. Jeb Bush, who married his Aztec hotel room maid, is a good example.

    On the right side tail, sheer bigness is a real health issue. The other day sports talk was going nuts over a redshirt freshman at UGA who's 6'7" and 330 pounds. If he goes on to pay the toll of professional football he'll probably be dead by age 60. If the NFL was forward-thinking and sympathetic, instead of just greedy and stupid, they'd figure out some way to dial back the athletic arms race.
    , @Intelligent Dasein

    Were you taller...
     
    Troglodytism is just about your intellectual speed, but I'm 6'2" in my bare feet, so...try again.
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  15. Anonymous[679] • Disclaimer says:

    A great example of this was the recent boosterseatgate, where lots of people mocked Mark Zuckerberg for having counselors smart enough to realize that people irrationally respect and trust taller men more. Few people stopped to think about whether they could actually justify their heightism, because unlike certain other -isms you don’t hear too much about it. (Maybe if it became a civil rights issue for mestizos? “A key feature of white supremacy is the stigmatization of Latnix immigrants as short-statured…”)

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  16. Anonymous[679] • Disclaimer says:

    It’s also surprising that you haven’t heard anything about it in the age of throwing everything but the kitchen sink to see what sticks to own Drumpf. Trump clearly has an acute understanding of male height prejudice, and a smug pride in his own stature.

    Read More
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  17. Jake says:

    It would be racist to worry about tall privilege, because of the NBA and the Masai.

    Read More
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  18. Anonymous[348] • Disclaimer says:

    Steve, approbation and opprobrium are in fact antonymns.

    Read More
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  19. @Mishra
    Tall people all end up with back trouble from a lifetime of dealing with a world designed for short people. Every one of whom resents you because you make an extra $79 a month and pull in a higher class of babe. It's not worth it.

    Lawn mowers, pool tables, church pews, airline seats, sports cars, kitchen counters, stairs, chairs, garden rakes, gym equipment, office furniture, one size fits all, huh.

    I am 6′ 4″ and while in the Marine Corps I spent 14 months of my life living on 2 Naval vessels. By the end of it I might as well have been the the Hunchback of Notre Dame because banging one’s head on every low handing hatchway, pipe, bracket, or duct produces that adaptation.

    I would also add toilets, snow shovels, commercial vehicle day cabs, and pants to your list of discrimination.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Tall guys should be pushing bayonets not crawling around inside of machines.
    , @Autochthon
    With due respect, you– like anyone else similarly tall – are a damned fool for joining the Marine Corps of the United States Navy – whose entire raison d'etre is—ahem—marine (specifically, amphibious) warfare, and whose personnel are therefore highly likely (indeed, all but certainly, after a few years) bound to spend time aboard a ship (probably an LHD or LHA). You should have joined the army (although it's possible that, exhibiting the same good sense and foresight you did by joining the marines, you'd have sought to be assigned to the crew of a tank...).
    , @Stan d Mute

    add toilets, snow shovels, commercial vehicle day cabs, and pants to your list of discrimination.
     
    Shoes, shirts, coats, sports cars, motorcycles, bicycles, old houses, etc...

    I know a medically disabled airline pilot with permanent neck deformity from hunching in cockpits.

    And keep in mind that a person of disadvantageous height is a target of violence from every wannabe tough guy looking to impress.
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  20. The person best known for punching above his height (in a very literal sense), is 5’1” David Miscavige. He’s been known for punching his underlings on a regular basis.

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  21. theMann says:

    Heightism is a real prejudice and leads to some glaringly obvious double standards.

    For instance, I have never gone grocery shopping in my life that some short person didn’t ask me to get something off the top shelf for them. Ok, fine, but if I asked a short person to get me something off the bottom shelf, they would call security.

    I am pretty sure the shorties want me bending over so that they can scope out my ass, so what I want to know is: where is the #metoo for tall people being violated in public like this? Tall people need to unite to fight the daily prejudices we encounter from the stubby world we live in. No more bending over, no more car seats putting our knees up our nostrils, no more stubbed toes or sore foreheads (pick your poison) every time we go into a bar. All this suffering just to have first pick of the hot chicks?

    Eh, never mind.

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  22. Wency says:
    @sabril
    I would guess it's because height prejudice disproportionately affects men.

    The Western world is intensely gynocentric, i.e. obsessed with the wants and needs and issues of women but cares very little about men. Men compete for wealth, status, etc., and the ones who come up short (sometimes literally) are thought to merit very little societal concern as a group.

    You can compare height bias with bias against fat people, which gets a good deal of attention. Presumably because bias against fat people disproportionately affects women.

    True.

    Also, this is compounded by the fact that women are generally crueler/less sympathetic to men they find unattractive than men are to unattractive women (at least among adults). Women feel the need to maintain the “bitch shield” to actively repel such men, while men don’t need to do this.

    But also this factor plays out mostly in the dating world. And there’s never going to be much of a push for equality in that arena.

    It’s true that there are also some career advantages to being tall, but I think this is most true in politics and traditional corporate management sorts of roles. If you’re anything but impressively tall, handsome, and charming, you should avoid these sorts of career tracks. Not hard to do.

    I’m 5’8″, and I’ve never felt the slightest bit of impact to my career from being short. But relative to my 6′+ friends, I’ve felt the impact in terms of women’s reactions my entire adult life.

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    • Replies: @sabril

    But also this factor plays out mostly in the dating world. And there’s never going to be much of a push for equality in that arena.
     
    I agree that such a push would be impractical, since you can't impose dating quotas on people like you can impose hiring or admissions quotas. But that hasn't stopped a lot of mainstream publications from trying to convince the public that fat women are sexually attractive.
    , @Corvinus
    "Also, this is compounded by the fact that women are generally crueler/less sympathetic to men they find unattractive than men are to unattractive women (at least among adults)."

    You obviously haven't visited Chateau's blog. Supposed the author there is a cruelty artist, or is that Vox Day? I get my narcissists mixed up.

    "Women feel the need to maintain the “bitch shield” to actively repel such men, while men don’t need to do this."

    Men are no different in this regard. Whether they make a rude comment to let a woman know they are not interested, or toy around with them then drop them to the curb, men have their own defenses to ensure that they are not to be bothered with annoying or unattractive or desperate women.

    "I’m 5’8″, and I’ve never felt the slightest bit of impact to my career from being short. But relative to my 6′+ friends, I’ve felt the impact in terms of women’s reactions my entire adult life."

    No different than the portly men or fatty women. Welcome to their club.
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  23. A good place to gather info on ‘height prejudice’ would be to browse some women’s profiles on dating sites. Unsolicited vicious comments about men under average height abound.

    If in the past being tall indicated physical strength or health (which in turn would relate to social status) then it’d be understandable for some level of favoritism towards height becoming ‘hard coded’ even if it’s not quite the advantage it was in those respects.

    That taller people do better in the workplace is well documented. I always found this Dilbert cartoon funny:

    https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/dilbert/images/1/18/IMG_4823.GIF/revision/latest?cb=20170205231659

    The dept where I work is about to get a new head who is about 6’9” and all I can think of is the above strip (I’m sure he’s competent enough, it’s just funny). Then again the previous head was below average height (maybe 5’6”) so I guess it evens out…

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  24. Anon[122] • Disclaimer says:

    Short people don’t get diversity Pokemon points because there are lots of short bad whites. Sure, height may vary slightly according to racial group, but not as much as skin tone. Giving Pokemon points across the board to shorties would ensure that some of the wrong people get them, and we can’t have that. Same reason why lefties and brown-eyed people get shafted. …maybe that explains the trend of minorities choosing exotic, unnatural hair colors to sport around (bonus level points?).

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  25. Billy Barty had a normal sized wife.

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    • Replies: @Daniel Williams

    Billy Barty had a normal sized wife.
     
    Famous dwarves have a way with women. Geto Boy dwarf/cyclops Bushwick Bill describes a representative tryst with "two of the finest bitches around" in this tawdry urban tale: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H-emJzKSH6k
    , @Autochthon
    Big deal; Mick Jagger had several physically attractive ones. We all know being short, ugly, or any number of other things takes a back seat to the single most important physical characteristic of all in human males: the thickness of the wallet.

    I endorse the points made also about the insane expectations of females (but I repeat myself) about males. There are reams of empirical evidence about the phenomenon, but perhaps the most concise and telling datum is that women using online dating services consistently rate around eighty per cent of all males they encounter as "below average" in appearance, giving us mathematics straight out of Lake Woebegone.... Only just imagine the outcry if men on such sites routinely and casually stated no date would be considered with any woman lacking at least a DD chest. I expect if it became too common the SJWs would demand action by the service; i should not be surprised if many such services to already quietly censure or remove such material from the postings of men cheeky enough to express such preferences.

    In my own days mucking about with such services, I anecdotally found the majority of women routinely demanded – this was no mere preference; it was stated as a threshold requirement – that any suitor be at least six feet tall to be considered for a date (a mere date – not marriage!). Needless to say, this again represents a very strange understanding of statistics, since such women – the over-wehelming majority hardly remarkable enough themselves to be making demands*) have thereby excluded from consideration the vast majority of men.

    These kinds of things are probably well understood by most readers of this forum, so I may've already belaboured the point, but such phenomena are also involved with the increasingly tolerated disaster (from the perspective of maintaining orderly and productive society) of a small set of men monopolising a larger set of women, serially as the women wait their turns for someone "good enough" for them or simultaneously via dating that is not exclusive, as average Joes are left to date Rosy Palms. The phenomenon has always occurred and always will to some extent, but it has been exacerbated exponentially by the wholesale rejection of chastity outside marriage and by permissive divorce, not only without any shame or infamy suffered by either party, but indeed with fabulous cash and prizes for nearly every party of the female part.

    *I expect Hayden Panettiere or Kat Dennings could demand suitors be at least seven feet tall and still find themselves spoiled for choice by the numbers of eager beaus, but these gals online were not in the same league, nor even the same sport....
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  26. @Tyrion 2
    Were you taller you would realise that women of all ages would, on meeting a tall man, remark upon their height and then remark upon it again and again in much the same way that a cartoonish troglodyte of a man might remark upon a woman's ample breasts.

    It is a sexual characteristic in much the same way. When I point this out to #metoo type women, they go quiet very fast.

    Tall women have the same problem in the other direction. Attractive 6′ women have a smaller pool of sexually attractive men to compete over. There’s probably a roughly golden-mean of bodily proportion ratios between sexual partners. As I heard one woman put it, she wouldn’t have sex with someone she felt she could hold in her lap.

    An outlier phenomenon I’ve noticed is tall men with poor self-image/confidence. Short men seem to have powerful compensatory measures that kick in but I’ve met tall men who seem unable to capitalize on their height in the sexual market. Jeb Bush, who married his Aztec hotel room maid, is a good example.

    On the right side tail, sheer bigness is a real health issue. The other day sports talk was going nuts over a redshirt freshman at UGA who’s 6’7″ and 330 pounds. If he goes on to pay the toll of professional football he’ll probably be dead by age 60. If the NFL was forward-thinking and sympathetic, instead of just greedy and stupid, they’d figure out some way to dial back the athletic arms race.

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    • Replies: @Big Bill

    As I heard one woman put it, she wouldn’t have sex with someone she felt she could hold in her lap.
     
    I find that very hard to believe. Mr. Hitachi is only a foot tall and lots of women swear by his gentle ministrations.
    , @Chrisnonymous

    An outlier phenomenon I’ve noticed
     
    I know it's base to bring up, but I believe this phenomenon is related to the size of the generative organs. There are tall men whose said organs are not commensurately impressive. I believe these men's experiences of surprised and disappointed partners lead them to have less confidence than we would otherwise expect.
    , @Doug
    There was a thread on this on Reddit the other day:

    https://www.reddit.com/r/dataisbeautiful/comments/8b5sju/satisfaction_with_height_as_a_function_of/

    Self-satisfaction with height peaks at 5'9" for women and 6'3" for men.
    , @Wency
    "Aztec hotel room maid"

    Geez, man. Columba's no Melania, but she's a rather light-skinned Mestizo and was OK in her youth:

    http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/01/20/24D32C6E00000578-0-image-a-51_1421788791921.jpg

    A solid 6, maybe even a 7 on a good day. Main flaw is that jaw. A guy like Jeb would likely have done much worse if not for height + Bush name. She has also remained reasonably fit (though this always seems true of political wives).

    One curious thing is that all of their children seem to have about the same complexion as Columba, if not slightly darker. Google some of their family photos. Given Steve's earlier speculations about paternity, not to mention Jeb being more or less patient zero for the word "cuckservative", I'm surprised this hasn't been mentioned more in these circles.
    , @AndrewR

    Jeb Bush, who married his Aztec hotel room maid, is a good example
     
    LMAO!

    Yes, it is strange that someone from such a wealthy and powerful family settled for such an unattractive woman. But she probably has never cheated on him though, so there's that.

    Anyway, a lot of taller females say they won't date shorter guys but that's usually a lie, usually even to themselves. Sure, I think most females genuinely prefer guys taller than them, but it's seldom a deal-breaker.
    , @L Woods

    tall men who seem unable to capitalize on their height in the sexual market.
     
    That's because success in today's SMP is single elimination. You can be tall, good looking, affluent, and...what's that? You're not an extrovert? You're not a mesomorph? No prizes for you loser.
    , @Rod1963

    On the right side tail, sheer bigness is a real health issue. The other day sports talk was going nuts over a redshirt freshman at UGA who’s 6’7″ and 330 pounds. If he goes on to pay the toll of professional football he’ll probably be dead by age 60. If the NFL was forward-thinking and sympathetic, instead of just greedy and stupid, they’d figure out some way to dial back the athletic arms race.
     
    The NFL is a freak show and serves as a advertisement for PED's and those who run the NFL don't care if these guys end up cripples by 30 or so.

    It's no better than the WWE.

    That said the guy in question will be a cripple by 30, diabetic by 35 and dead by 50 or so. That is beyond big - he's about the size of the World's Strongest Man competitors. Though past winners like Kazmier and Mariusz Pudzianowski were only about 6'1" or so.

    But they all know to drop the weight to a more manageable level when they stop competing.

    It's really a PITA to maintain and not good for a human.
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  27. Dwright says:

    Comey is a very feminine man which can be be counteracted by his height.

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  28. prosa123 says: • Website
    @Anon
    Short victimhood might be a tough sell given that so many men of power were hardly tall.

    Napoleon is the most famous example. Stalin and Mussolini were 5'5. Deng was 4'11. I hear Alexander the Great wasn't tall.

    Germanic barbarians were bigger but shorter Romans beat them before they got beaten.

    Chinese aren't that tall but they called Japanese 'dwarfs', so Japanese must have been shorter. But they sure made mincemeat of so many Chinese.

    Zuck isn't tall but he sure is loaded.

    Also, is Height Preference really a Height Prejudice?

    Many people think of prejudice as meaning 'you not allowed'.

    In contrast, preference means 'you are favored'.

    There is similarity between prejudice and preference but still a difference.

    So, an organization may have no anti-short policy BUT may still prefer taller people.

    Napoleon was not as short as legend holds. Reports in English newspapers at the time of his rise started the legend by often saying that he stood 5’2″, when in fact this was a misinterpretation from a pre-metric French system of measurement then in use. He actually was 5’6″, which was only an inch or two less than the average European male of his time. In person, Napoleon seemed shorter than he actually was because he always surrounded himself by a team of huge hulking bodyguards.

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    • Replies: @Captain Tripps
    I was going to reply the same, but you beat me to it. Also, the myth persists that Napoleon was "short" (even, as you point out, he was the average height of a Frenchman in that time) because he...lost. To Arthur Wellesley, the Duke of Wellington. Who was...an aristocrat. And taller than Bonaparte (though not by much at 5'9"). The winners get to write history, after all. Interestingly, the Brits had a death mask made of Napoleon, so we have a good idea what he actually looked like (in the pre-photography era):

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/fc/Napoleon_death_mask_cph.3b16441.jpg

    Also, the Duke of Wellington looks very much like, well, an English Duke, a la Lord Ribblesdale as mentioned above:

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/83/Sir_Arthur_Wellesley%2C_1st_Duke_of_Wellington.png

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  29. Big Bill says:
    @The Anti-Gnostic
    Tall women have the same problem in the other direction. Attractive 6' women have a smaller pool of sexually attractive men to compete over. There's probably a roughly golden-mean of bodily proportion ratios between sexual partners. As I heard one woman put it, she wouldn't have sex with someone she felt she could hold in her lap.

    An outlier phenomenon I've noticed is tall men with poor self-image/confidence. Short men seem to have powerful compensatory measures that kick in but I've met tall men who seem unable to capitalize on their height in the sexual market. Jeb Bush, who married his Aztec hotel room maid, is a good example.

    On the right side tail, sheer bigness is a real health issue. The other day sports talk was going nuts over a redshirt freshman at UGA who's 6'7" and 330 pounds. If he goes on to pay the toll of professional football he'll probably be dead by age 60. If the NFL was forward-thinking and sympathetic, instead of just greedy and stupid, they'd figure out some way to dial back the athletic arms race.

    As I heard one woman put it, she wouldn’t have sex with someone she felt she could hold in her lap.

    I find that very hard to believe. Mr. Hitachi is only a foot tall and lots of women swear by his gentle ministrations.

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    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Wasn’t there a ‘Carlos Hathitachi’ on here a while back?
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  30. It’s easy to start this: explain the intersection of how height prejudice decreases the number of female CEOs and managers.

    I should monetize this.

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    • Replies: @Elsewhere
    If I recall correctly, Jordan Peterson used precisely this argument as an example of a possible source of the disparity in female CEOs in his interview with Cathy Newman. He then focused on the more plausible one of personality differences.
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  31. anonymous[185] • Disclaimer says:

    Heightism isn’t brought up very much because almost everyone seems to be on board with it at least on an unconscious level. When mentioned it’s easy to make it look like whining. Lookism is another. Better looking people get better treatment but when the subject gets raised few people want to admit to being in the ugly camp. Everyone is beautiful in their own way and yada yada. A short guy I knew had trouble getting any dates whatever and I heard him discussing his problem with a couple female co-workers. They told his it wasn’t true, it was a matter of personality, of comportment, intelligence, etc. That was pure BS but I couldn’t tell if the women temporarily believed their own nonsense or if they knew it wasn’t true but were saying it just to be nice to him.

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  32. Logan says:

    Another factor is attractiveness prejudice. Attractive people universally have significant advantages in just about every measurable way.

    I’ve often wondered if some part of the disadvantage suffered by blacks and other minorities is due to their not meeting the attractiveness threshold of the dominant group. I suspect attractive blacks fare much better than unattractive ones.

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  33. @Intelligent Dasein
    What seems to be a preference for height is almost always an affectation that people employ in order to prepossess themselves of the favor of someone whom they desire for quite other purposes. "Height" is sort of a generic compliment you can pay someone, such as "strength" or "handsomeness" would be. For instance, if you were trying to move a couch into your new apartment and saw some guys milling about, a good way to solicit their help would be to say something like, "Would any of you strong young men be willing to lend me a hand here?" That should not be taken to construe that the men in question were particularly strong, or that raw strength was the most desired quality under any circumstance. It is more a case of recognizing that an adequate strength exists in the subjects and, wishing to take advantage of it for your own purposes, flattering it through affect compensation. This only works because most people would prefer to think of themselves as strong as opposed to weak, and will demand this "tribute" from you in exchange for their services. There is a complicated psychological transaction going on here, apart from which it is not clear that burliness confers any particular advantage per se. If the consideration where simply a material one (and if, as the evolutionists insist, life continuously developed itself along the fitness principle) then a trend towards increasing strength would be everywhere and always observed. There would be no accounting for the extreme disparity between the mouse and the elephant, and no way of explaining the variation even within a species. That the compliment is merely a relative one is amply demonstrated by the fact that girls will refer to a man they like as "tall" even when he is barely pushing 5'9". As everyone has felt, it is much easier to give convincing displays of strength when that strength is appreciated and wanted---a subject meriting further examination.

    I think it’s quite clear why you’re single. Sorry to say…

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    • Replies: @Autochthon
    I am pretty sure Intelligent Dasein has mentioned being married, perhaps even with children, if my memory serves me correctly (though a quick and dirty search of his comments in fact suggests my incipient senility...).
    , @Intelligent Dasein

    I think it’s quite clear why you’re single. Sorry to say…
     
    1. I am not single. I am unmarried, but that's an entirely different thing. I am not single in the sense that I am devoid of company.

    2. It is "quite clear" that you have absolutely nothing substantive to add, that you cannot argue with any of my points, and that you really don't even understand the subject at hand. If you could say better you would have done so.
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  34. CJ says:

    Comments on one of yesterday’s posts mentioned a Pygmy from Africa who was exhibited in the Bronx Zoo in 1904. According to the story the Pygmy was 4’11” which, as well as being the height of Robert Reich and Deng Xiaoping, sounds pretty tall for a Pygmy.

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    • Replies: @Paul Jolliffe
    Somebody else noted that W.C. Fields had the last word about this:

    http://www.azquotes.com/quote/827645
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  35. @The Anti-Gnostic
    Tall women have the same problem in the other direction. Attractive 6' women have a smaller pool of sexually attractive men to compete over. There's probably a roughly golden-mean of bodily proportion ratios between sexual partners. As I heard one woman put it, she wouldn't have sex with someone she felt she could hold in her lap.

    An outlier phenomenon I've noticed is tall men with poor self-image/confidence. Short men seem to have powerful compensatory measures that kick in but I've met tall men who seem unable to capitalize on their height in the sexual market. Jeb Bush, who married his Aztec hotel room maid, is a good example.

    On the right side tail, sheer bigness is a real health issue. The other day sports talk was going nuts over a redshirt freshman at UGA who's 6'7" and 330 pounds. If he goes on to pay the toll of professional football he'll probably be dead by age 60. If the NFL was forward-thinking and sympathetic, instead of just greedy and stupid, they'd figure out some way to dial back the athletic arms race.

    An outlier phenomenon I’ve noticed

    I know it’s base to bring up, but I believe this phenomenon is related to the size of the generative organs. There are tall men whose said organs are not commensurately impressive. I believe these men’s experiences of surprised and disappointed partners lead them to have less confidence than we would otherwise expect.

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    • Replies: @Stan Adams
    Call girl Karrine Steffans reported that the 7'1" Shaquille O'Neal was average ... for a 5'4" man.
    , @uman
    what are these generative organs and where can we find them?
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  36. Doug says:

    It’s an interesting question. Why would people ever advocate for a traditionally low-status group? If group X is marginalized in society, it would seem associating ones self with group X could only lower social status. Even if you’re from group X, you don’t want to highlight it. Some humans are genuinely altruistic, but the vast majority are highly status conscious. So how did we ever end up with Civil Rights movement, women’s equality and gay marriage?

    I think the answer is that there needs to be at least some subculture or social framing, where the oppressed group is relatively high status. We don’t all agree on social ranking. A 22-year old Brooklyn hipster thinks that the winner of the World Barista Championship is a pretty big deal, but wouldn’t give a second glance at a megachurch pastor. A 60 year old Accountant and father from Iowa is the reverse. Whenever you’ve had genuine social advancement of some marginalized group, it’s because some sub-culture held that group in high esteem, and pushed their interests on the broader population.

    In 1963 blacks were considered cool, sexy and hip by the young, educated, urban and Northern. A lot of famous musicians, athletes and actors were black by that point. Women may be excluded from the board room and golf course, but at a bar or party an attractive woman is almost always the center of attention. Being gay is haram in backwoods Mississippi, but by the 1990s the Sex and the City crowd considered them fabulous, fashionable, and fascinating.

    Straight, white men pushed for blacks, women and gay rights because in their social circles they *want* to be associated with those groups. Having black, female and gay friends was a good thing at least for a large segment of the country.

    In contrast there’s no significant sub-culture where short men are considered high status. Even if you’re a short man, you don’t want to advocate for your group, because it only highlights your own stature. Similarly we see, at best, lackluster social advocacy for the ugly, the infertile, the fat, and the socially awkward. Even though in 2018 all those groups are discriminated much more universally than any of the traditional oppressed categories.

    Even the disabled, a group which, by far, should elicit the most human compassion, play second fiddle. Mainstream social justice will usually only even mention “able-ism” in passing. My guess is that transphobia and Islamophobia receive 50 times the money and attention as able-ism.

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    • Replies: @AndrewR
    Good comment but I would say the "body acceptance" movement has gotten a lot of traction. After my [rail-thin] female cousin berated me a few years ago for saying Adele was fat and gross, I've learned to be more careful about whom I express my true feelings to regarding obesity.
    , @Samuel Skinner

    If group X is marginalized in society, it would seem associating ones self with group X could only lower social status.
     
    You don't. Hence diversity for thee, but not for me. You raise your status by lowering the status of competitors by flooding them with these groups. You engage in tokenism to show you are a member of the high status group that can arrange to get a token (which are special because they are rare).

    You can't go wrong working of the assumption humans desire power and the ability to inflict pain over others.
    , @ScarletNumber

    Why would people ever advocate for a traditionally low-status group?
     
    It's ironic that the whole point of Christianity is to do this, yet few Christians do.

    As an aside, pointing out how people are hypocrites vis-a-vis their religion isn't the way to popularity.
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  37. markflag says:

    Now, if it is a short fat woman . . . . then there is a problem of size-acceptance, though generally it is acceptance of the blubber rather than the lack of height. Five-two 190 lb is not a good combination. Especially when tattooed as well. Check put the broad broad from California who exulted in Barbara Bush’s death.

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  38. Doug says:
    @The Anti-Gnostic
    Tall women have the same problem in the other direction. Attractive 6' women have a smaller pool of sexually attractive men to compete over. There's probably a roughly golden-mean of bodily proportion ratios between sexual partners. As I heard one woman put it, she wouldn't have sex with someone she felt she could hold in her lap.

    An outlier phenomenon I've noticed is tall men with poor self-image/confidence. Short men seem to have powerful compensatory measures that kick in but I've met tall men who seem unable to capitalize on their height in the sexual market. Jeb Bush, who married his Aztec hotel room maid, is a good example.

    On the right side tail, sheer bigness is a real health issue. The other day sports talk was going nuts over a redshirt freshman at UGA who's 6'7" and 330 pounds. If he goes on to pay the toll of professional football he'll probably be dead by age 60. If the NFL was forward-thinking and sympathetic, instead of just greedy and stupid, they'd figure out some way to dial back the athletic arms race.

    There was a thread on this on Reddit the other day:

    https://www.reddit.com/r/dataisbeautiful/comments/8b5sju/satisfaction_with_height_as_a_function_of/

    Self-satisfaction with height peaks at 5’9″ for women and 6’3″ for men.

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    • Replies: @AndrewR
    I'm 5'11" and have never wished I was taller except while playing basketball, which I have seldom done in my life.
    , @Buzz Mohawk
    There seems to be a sweet spot between +2 and +3 SD for a lot of human characteristics.
    , @Charles Pewitt

    Self-satisfaction with height peaks at 5’9″ for women and 6’3″ for men.

     

    I'm satisfied that I am taller than that midget Limey Mick Jagger. This filthy multi-millionaire Limey Mick Jagger ain't no 5 feet 10 inches tall. I bet he's 5 feet seven inches if he's lucky. And Jagger is slightly built to boot.

    I know 3 things about money-grubber Mick Jagger:

    1) Jagger is obsessed with real estate prices, like a good middle class Limey striver;

    3) Jagger is not 5 feet 10 inches tall;

    3) Jagger's got the onions to wear football tights and dance around in a cherry picker bucket -- that's the kind of onions that will land you Jerry Hall in her prime. Got to give Jagger credit for that. Brian Ferry must have had enough of the Texas charms of Jerry Hall, he never clobbered that Jagger for stealing away Hall.

    Jerry Hall and Rupert Murdoch -- the imperial rot continues.
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  39. Height for males is a secondary sex characteristic, like big boobs or pretty hands for females.

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  40. Wency says:
    @The Anti-Gnostic
    Tall women have the same problem in the other direction. Attractive 6' women have a smaller pool of sexually attractive men to compete over. There's probably a roughly golden-mean of bodily proportion ratios between sexual partners. As I heard one woman put it, she wouldn't have sex with someone she felt she could hold in her lap.

    An outlier phenomenon I've noticed is tall men with poor self-image/confidence. Short men seem to have powerful compensatory measures that kick in but I've met tall men who seem unable to capitalize on their height in the sexual market. Jeb Bush, who married his Aztec hotel room maid, is a good example.

    On the right side tail, sheer bigness is a real health issue. The other day sports talk was going nuts over a redshirt freshman at UGA who's 6'7" and 330 pounds. If he goes on to pay the toll of professional football he'll probably be dead by age 60. If the NFL was forward-thinking and sympathetic, instead of just greedy and stupid, they'd figure out some way to dial back the athletic arms race.

    “Aztec hotel room maid”

    Geez, man. Columba’s no Melania, but she’s a rather light-skinned Mestizo and was OK in her youth:

    A solid 6, maybe even a 7 on a good day. Main flaw is that jaw. A guy like Jeb would likely have done much worse if not for height + Bush name. She has also remained reasonably fit (though this always seems true of political wives).

    One curious thing is that all of their children seem to have about the same complexion as Columba, if not slightly darker. Google some of their family photos. Given Steve’s earlier speculations about paternity, not to mention Jeb being more or less patient zero for the word “cuckservative”, I’m surprised this hasn’t been mentioned more in these circles.

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    • Replies: @Anthony Wayne
    It’s likely Columba has avoided the sun her entire life at the direction of her mother or abuela.
    , @Anonymous
    I'd guess she was Italian or Spanish if I knew nothing else about her.
    , @The Anti-Gnostic
    Like most indigenous/mestizo, her good days were before age 18 if not 16. She actually seems to have markers for dwarfism, whether hereditary or nutritional I don't know. There's also her dismal cognitive level.

    Again, for a tall, connected, and smart guy, he punched way, way below his class, and he has the kind of kids you'd expect from it.
    , @Dave Pinsen
    There’s no way Jeb isn’t George P. Bush’s father. Look at that face. He’s darker than his mother probably because he wants to look more Latino so he tans.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_P._Bush#/media/File%3AGeorge_P._Bush_by_Gage_Skidmore.jpg

    , @Anonym
    Jeb's wife has a threehead with intellect to match.
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  41. Tiny Duck says:

    I would just like to point out that you guys are falling to pieces:

    Watch all this guys videos

    He shows how messed up you people are

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    • Replies: @SimplePseudonymicHandle
    Tiny Duck and the Antifa video blogger he cites ... are Right

    this time

    You should pay attention.

    we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes, and our sacred Honor
     
    ...said no white nationalist, ever

    And it's never going to happen.

    Now - the Antifa videoblogger is not right, but interesting, to refer to certain civil nationalists as "cucks". Interesting because taken together with the rest of his video it betrays the sort of nihilism that's a mirror image of the nihilism he opposes.

    But he's correctly diagnosing that the Alt-right isn't keeping it together, and furthermore: can't

    Racial nationalism: works nowhere
    Not in China - where it isn't a race, it's an ethnicity - with a culture: the Han. Not in Korea or Japan, which are also ethnicities, with unifying cultures.
    Not in Israel - which has no less than three ethnicities unified by a common religion. (please re-read that sentence to yourself 3-5 times, those of you who seek some sort of moral equivalence with the Israeli/Zionist enterprise).
    Not in Africa.

    It works nowhere.
    It periodically rises up into a conflagration under an alphamale like in Nazi Germany - but it inevitably destroys itself or is eaten from the outside.

    It's cyclical rise is only sustained by the solipsistic projections of its adherents that if only they were in charge then it would all work out.

    You have no program of initiation, no system of competence hierarchy and consensus leadership, no unifying principle or culture, and no reason to refrain from throwing one another off the bus because you have no common commitment.

    You need a new formula for unity and a new target for manifestation.
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  42. Pericles says:
    @AndrewR
    How much of Robert Reich's utter insufferableness can be attributed to the fact that he's a mini-man of 4'11"?

    Reich should file his teeth and go on an exhibition tour.

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    • LOL: TelfoedJohn
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  43. Good Posture Is Important

    Good posture helps make short guys under 6 feet tall seem somewhat taller. It also helps to have a good shoulder to waist ratio to make the frame appear more elongated.

    This guy in the baseball cap has good posture:

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    • Replies: @Anonymous

    Good Posture Is Important

    Good posture helps make short guys under 6 feet tall seem somewhat taller. It also helps to have a good shoulder to waist ratio to make the frame appear more elongated.
     
    That is why guys who were in the marines usually seem a little taller than they actually are. An extraordinary amount of boot camp is just getting guys to stand up straight with good posture.

    Because the marines believes this makes them more powerful people and this has been (repeatedly) battle tested over decades, so there may be something to it.

    Anyhow, essentially the marines have been proponents of power posing long before the term was ever heard.

    I'm average height for US male, and it has been a perfect height for me. Never had the negative of being thought of as short in day to day life, but never had the plus of above average height. IMO, short is a much stronger negative than tall is a positive. Being average height, I always figured I had no dog in the height fight.

    The part that mystifies me is when I see some good looking tall guy that has endemic problems with women. They really do exist rather commonly in a way that women who are really physically attractive and can't get dates do not exist except in movies and such.
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  44. Taki ran David Cole’s nice piece called “Dwarfs vs. Trannies” just a few days ago. S.S., a little acknowledgment would have been nice to see.

    http://takimag.com/article/dwarfs_vs_trannies_david_cole/print#axzz5DDk621Tx

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  45. Redux says:

    “So, our culture’s prejudice in favor of the tall is kind of obsolete.”

    Not according to dating sites. You would be amazed how upfront many women are about not wanting to be messaged by short guys.

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  46. nglaer says:

    Girls don’t like to go out with guys who aren’t taller than them. My daughters are 5-8 and 5-11 and it limits their options.

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    • Replies: @BenKenobi
    are you trying to tell us that women hate hate HATE short men?
    , @Anon
    Then why do so many women an inch or two shorter than their guys wear four-inch heels?
    , @AndrewR
    Angrily threaten to disown them if they refuse to drop their disgusting prejudices. The very continuation of your bloodline may depend on it.
    , @Joe Stalin
    So "don't like" "limits their options?"

    So if I only date pretty women that limits my options for dating?
    , @Paul Jolliffe
    Yup, you're exactly right.

    I was at an awards dinner for stand-out girl high school volleyball players recently, and the outside hitters and middle blockers were all 6', 6'1, or 6'2, and almost without exception, they were all wearing heels.

    As pretty, smart, athletic and tall young ladies, they were going to intimidate the crap out of 99% of all the young men they would ever come across in life.

    Jordan Peterson has much to say about this very phenomenon:

    https://youtu.be/gKYsf1A42O4

    , @Marty T
    Oh poor babies. Maybe they should consider things that aren't superficial. Two thirds of men are as tall or taller than your 5'8 daughter. Almost half of men for your 5'11.
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  47. BenKenobi says:
    @nglaer
    Girls don't like to go out with guys who aren't taller than them. My daughters are 5-8 and 5-11 and it limits their options.

    are you trying to tell us that women hate hate HATE short men?

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  48. If you could find a way to weaponize this angle against White people you could make a lot of money.

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  49. Lugash says:
    @AndrewR
    How much of Robert Reich's utter insufferableness can be attributed to the fact that he's a mini-man of 4'11"?

    Is he really that different than any other lib? The worst thing he did was the ‘fuck giving whipepo jobs’ congressional testimony, as far as I remember. This is the standard liberal position, even if they won’t admit it.

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    • Replies: @AndrewR
    Among other things, he alleged that it was worth believing that the antifa rioters, who wreaked havoc in Berkeley during the Milo talk, were actually right-wingers just pretending to be antifa in order to make the left look bad. This is made all the more egregious by the fact that antifa is so open with their agenda and their willingness to use violence. It's true that most of them mask up before rioting, but given their history and stated ideology, any reasonable and honest person would blame antifa for damage and violence done by people who look and act like antifa. There is no reason to give them the benefit of the doubt. It would be like blaming black nationalists for hooded men lynching a black person: "They're just trying to make the KKK look bad!" Reich's dishonesty streches well past the threshold of absurdity.
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  50. Height has diminishing returns.
    Consider relation to attractiveness.
    See how many genuinely attractive ~6′ women there are.
    See how many among ~6′ 3″+ men.
    They may as well be unicorns, except for Tom Brady couple.
    Attractiveness explains much about shorter leading men.

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    • Replies: @Charles Pewitt

    Attractiveness explains much about shorter leading men.

     

    Vulnerability captured by the camera along with good looks and the audience's desire to root for the underdog.

    My heart was filled with joy when I saw that I was taller and better built than Viggo Mortensen. Mortensen played a great hero in those Lord of The Rings movies. The human heart finds joy in odd places, inexplicably. Viggo Mortensen is tiny, and he is more pretty than handsome. But, the camera picks up the scrappy charisma of Mortensen and the audience roots for him.
    , @Buzz Mohawk
    Short people are common in movies and TV. The face is the most important part of the picture, and a short person often looks better in a shot because his head looks bigger relative to his body.

    The camera does not usually show the full person or how tall he is.

    Compensations are often made, even including having an actor stand on a platform when opposite a taller person.

    There are many great short actors who make a big impression on screen, and the pubic has no idea how short they are.

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  51. inertial says:

    Amazingly enough, Lord Ribblesdale was a Liberal. A real Man of the People.

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  52. George says:

    Albert Einstein was 5′ 9″ Tesla was 6′ 2″ I wonder if you took one of those lists of important intellectuals what their average height would end up being? Is there an optimal height for humans?

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    • Replies: @sabril

    Is there an optimal height for humans?
     
    For what purpose? Living a long and healthy life? Spreading your genes far and wide? Being as smart as possible?

    I would guess that for spreading your genes, the optimal height (for a man) is "a little bit taller than most other guys." In other words, I wouldn't be surprised at all if it turned out that the optimal height (in terms of general health and well-being) is like 5'5".
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  53. Ribblesdale was a Lister to go by his real surname. Ribblesdale had a weak chin and a rat nose to go with his bulgy eyes.

    Ann Coulter has a more aristocratic bearing than Lister. Being that Ann Coulter has Kentucky and Tennessee ancestry, and she has American grit, and she is 6 feet beautiful tall, I bet Coulter would have taken Lister out in an Andrew Jackson style duel.

    Rat Nose Ribblesdale Lister had two sons get killed fighting for the British Empire. The internet ain’t clear, but it might be Gallipoli or the Boer War or Somaliland where Rat Nose Ribblesdale Lister had his sons go belly up.

    The internet suggests that Rat Nose Ribblesdale Lister came from a family with an occupational name. Lister’s people got this Ribblesdale name because they did this or that for somebody.

    General George Washington is a better representation of aristocratic bearing and looks than Rat Nose Ribblesdale Lister. George Washington had the honor to be both an Englishman and an American, Rat Nose Ribblesdale was a Limey bastard his whole life.

    The United States has Ann Coulter and George Washington, we don’t need no Rat Nose Ribblesdale Lister Limey:

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    • Replies: @Old Palo Altan
    True enough, but don't ignore the fact that Washington was a real aristocrat, not only in his character and bearing, but also in terms of his ancestry.
    Uradel, the Germans call it.
    , @Reg Cæsar
    Ann is in addition a movie star now.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HiZ4zHXnkVQ
    , @BB753
    America was built on heightism just as much as on racism: if Washington had been smaller, there'd be no United States. Standing above every other head made him rally his troops to win battles and get appointed President. Sailer is on to something.
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  54. Anon[104] • Disclaimer says:

    Three are a few memes out there showing an SMS exchange along the lines of:

    - How tall are you?

    - 6-3, how much do you weigh?

    - What?!

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  55. Anon[104] • Disclaimer says:
    @nglaer
    Girls don't like to go out with guys who aren't taller than them. My daughters are 5-8 and 5-11 and it limits their options.

    Then why do so many women an inch or two shorter than their guys wear four-inch heels?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Bleuteaux
    Maybe more interesting, the women at work wearing four inch heals are almost all 5'6" to 5'10", which pushes them near or above six foot. I do not see this with women 5'4" or below, who almost universally do not wear heels at my business.
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  56. inertial says:

    Everyone says how Napoleon at 5′ 7″ wasn’t really short but was of an average height for a 18th century Frenchman. I always thought this was missing the point. He wasn’t compared to an average guy but to European aristocracy.

    Let’s look at Napoleon’s opponents. George III, the King of England was 6’6″. I couldn’t find the height of Francis II, the last Emperor of the Holy Roman Empire (and the first Austrian Emperor,) but judging from his portrait he was another very tall fellow. Tsar Alexander I of Russia was the shorty of the bunch, he was “only” 5’10″; but his son, the future Tsar Nicholas I, was 6″10″.

    Can you imagine Napoleon standing next to these giants? Hence the ridicule.

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    • Agree: Autochthon
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  57. AndrewR says:
    @Lugash
    Is he really that different than any other lib? The worst thing he did was the 'fuck giving whipepo jobs' congressional testimony, as far as I remember. This is the standard liberal position, even if they won't admit it.

    Among other things, he alleged that it was worth believing that the antifa rioters, who wreaked havoc in Berkeley during the Milo talk, were actually right-wingers just pretending to be antifa in order to make the left look bad. This is made all the more egregious by the fact that antifa is so open with their agenda and their willingness to use violence. It’s true that most of them mask up before rioting, but given their history and stated ideology, any reasonable and honest person would blame antifa for damage and violence done by people who look and act like antifa. There is no reason to give them the benefit of the doubt. It would be like blaming black nationalists for hooded men lynching a black person: “They’re just trying to make the KKK look bad!” Reich’s dishonesty streches well past the threshold of absurdity.

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  58. AndrewR says:
    @nglaer
    Girls don't like to go out with guys who aren't taller than them. My daughters are 5-8 and 5-11 and it limits their options.

    Angrily threaten to disown them if they refuse to drop their disgusting prejudices. The very continuation of your bloodline may depend on it.

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  59. AndrewR says:
    @Doug
    There was a thread on this on Reddit the other day:

    https://www.reddit.com/r/dataisbeautiful/comments/8b5sju/satisfaction_with_height_as_a_function_of/

    Self-satisfaction with height peaks at 5'9" for women and 6'3" for men.

    I’m 5’11″ and have never wished I was taller except while playing basketball, which I have seldom done in my life.

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    • Replies: @Mishra
    Yeah, I'm 6-3 and aside from basketball and volleyball, I think 5-11 is about the perfect height for guys. The only other example I can come up with is being in a standing-only audience. As you state, all of these things combined are about 0.001% of my lifetime, the rest of which pretty much punished me for the extra height. But I'll stop whining, because no one likes it when tall people complain.
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  60. @Peter Johnson
    That seems very unfair to Robert Reich, who has managed to get a mainstream-published book, full to the brim with HBD-consistent science, through the HBD-censorship system. Even if he wants to claim otherwise, he is an HBD hero. So we should be nice to him; he is helping us to tear down the barriers to open scientific enquiry.

    That seems very unfair to Robert Reich, who has managed to get a mainstream-published book, full to the brim with HBD-consistent science, through the HBD-censorship system. Even if he wants to claim otherwise, he is an HBD hero. So we should be nice to him; he is helping us to tear down the barriers to open scientific enquiry.

    You’re thinking of David Reich.

    AndrewR is refering to the diminutive economist Robert Reich, the evil twin of Dr. Miguelito Loveless.

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  61. denjae says:
    @Mishra
    Tall people all end up with back trouble from a lifetime of dealing with a world designed for short people. Every one of whom resents you because you make an extra $79 a month and pull in a higher class of babe. It's not worth it.

    Lawn mowers, pool tables, church pews, airline seats, sports cars, kitchen counters, stairs, chairs, garden rakes, gym equipment, office furniture, one size fits all, huh.

    Yep. . . a life-time filled with bucks and babes

    and being known for noticing, appreciating, deprecating the design of things . . .

    a trait based simply on the fact that most things don’t fit.

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  62. AndrewR says:
    @Doug
    It's an interesting question. Why would people ever advocate for a traditionally low-status group? If group X is marginalized in society, it would seem associating ones self with group X could only lower social status. Even if you're from group X, you don't want to highlight it. Some humans are genuinely altruistic, but the vast majority are highly status conscious. So how did we ever end up with Civil Rights movement, women's equality and gay marriage?

    I think the answer is that there needs to be at least some subculture or social framing, where the oppressed group is relatively high status. We don't all agree on social ranking. A 22-year old Brooklyn hipster thinks that the winner of the World Barista Championship is a pretty big deal, but wouldn't give a second glance at a megachurch pastor. A 60 year old Accountant and father from Iowa is the reverse. Whenever you've had genuine social advancement of some marginalized group, it's because some sub-culture held that group in high esteem, and pushed their interests on the broader population.

    In 1963 blacks were considered cool, sexy and hip by the young, educated, urban and Northern. A lot of famous musicians, athletes and actors were black by that point. Women may be excluded from the board room and golf course, but at a bar or party an attractive woman is almost always the center of attention. Being gay is haram in backwoods Mississippi, but by the 1990s the Sex and the City crowd considered them fabulous, fashionable, and fascinating.

    Straight, white men pushed for blacks, women and gay rights because in their social circles they *want* to be associated with those groups. Having black, female and gay friends was a good thing at least for a large segment of the country.

    In contrast there's no significant sub-culture where short men are considered high status. Even if you're a short man, you don't want to advocate for your group, because it only highlights your own stature. Similarly we see, at best, lackluster social advocacy for the ugly, the infertile, the fat, and the socially awkward. Even though in 2018 all those groups are discriminated much more universally than any of the traditional oppressed categories.

    Even the disabled, a group which, by far, should elicit the most human compassion, play second fiddle. Mainstream social justice will usually only even mention "able-ism" in passing. My guess is that transphobia and Islamophobia receive 50 times the money and attention as able-ism.

    Good comment but I would say the “body acceptance” movement has gotten a lot of traction. After my [rail-thin] female cousin berated me a few years ago for saying Adele was fat and gross, I’ve learned to be more careful about whom I express my true feelings to regarding obesity.

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    • Replies: @Mis(ter)Anthrope
    I have nothing against fat men, but I despise fat women. Perfection for a woman is to be pleasant (i.e., speaking as seldom as possible, but when necessary in a cheerful manner) and look good.

    I have never been around a pleasant, attractive fat woman.
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  63. AndrewR says:
    @The Anti-Gnostic
    Tall women have the same problem in the other direction. Attractive 6' women have a smaller pool of sexually attractive men to compete over. There's probably a roughly golden-mean of bodily proportion ratios between sexual partners. As I heard one woman put it, she wouldn't have sex with someone she felt she could hold in her lap.

    An outlier phenomenon I've noticed is tall men with poor self-image/confidence. Short men seem to have powerful compensatory measures that kick in but I've met tall men who seem unable to capitalize on their height in the sexual market. Jeb Bush, who married his Aztec hotel room maid, is a good example.

    On the right side tail, sheer bigness is a real health issue. The other day sports talk was going nuts over a redshirt freshman at UGA who's 6'7" and 330 pounds. If he goes on to pay the toll of professional football he'll probably be dead by age 60. If the NFL was forward-thinking and sympathetic, instead of just greedy and stupid, they'd figure out some way to dial back the athletic arms race.

    Jeb Bush, who married his Aztec hotel room maid, is a good example

    LMAO!

    Yes, it is strange that someone from such a wealthy and powerful family settled for such an unattractive woman. But she probably has never cheated on him though, so there’s that.

    Anyway, a lot of taller females say they won’t date shorter guys but that’s usually a lie, usually even to themselves. Sure, I think most females genuinely prefer guys taller than them, but it’s seldom a deal-breaker.

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  64. @Intelligent Dasein
    What seems to be a preference for height is almost always an affectation that people employ in order to prepossess themselves of the favor of someone whom they desire for quite other purposes. "Height" is sort of a generic compliment you can pay someone, such as "strength" or "handsomeness" would be. For instance, if you were trying to move a couch into your new apartment and saw some guys milling about, a good way to solicit their help would be to say something like, "Would any of you strong young men be willing to lend me a hand here?" That should not be taken to construe that the men in question were particularly strong, or that raw strength was the most desired quality under any circumstance. It is more a case of recognizing that an adequate strength exists in the subjects and, wishing to take advantage of it for your own purposes, flattering it through affect compensation. This only works because most people would prefer to think of themselves as strong as opposed to weak, and will demand this "tribute" from you in exchange for their services. There is a complicated psychological transaction going on here, apart from which it is not clear that burliness confers any particular advantage per se. If the consideration where simply a material one (and if, as the evolutionists insist, life continuously developed itself along the fitness principle) then a trend towards increasing strength would be everywhere and always observed. There would be no accounting for the extreme disparity between the mouse and the elephant, and no way of explaining the variation even within a species. That the compliment is merely a relative one is amply demonstrated by the fact that girls will refer to a man they like as "tall" even when he is barely pushing 5'9". As everyone has felt, it is much easier to give convincing displays of strength when that strength is appreciated and wanted---a subject meriting further examination.

    I would read your comment if you broke it up into multiple paragraphs.

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  65. There is some speculation that the rise of blond hair in some parts of Europe was due to sexual selection — that gentlemen, and ladies, preferred blonds.

    This was perhaps true of blue eyes as well.

    It has also been suggested that in some societies large breasts were due to sexual selection. Often those societies where women’s breasts were either fully or partially exposed tended to have larger-breasted females than those societies were the women’s breasts were generally covered.

    There was a woman I once knew who complained that her natural advantages — blond hair, blue eyes and large breasts — were not as useful in a time when hair dye, colored contact lenses and implants are all readily available.

    However, despite high heels, and the no-longer-fashionable platform shoes for men, there is some speculation that increased height may be a sexually selective trait. Interestingly, many men prefer shorter women, so that kind of washes out in the end.

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  66. @unit472
    James Comey cares. In fact he promoted Andrew McCabe to his own towering status when he declared McCabe 'Stood tall" against the 'small people' who were his detractors. He also noted that President Trump did not appear as tall as he actually is probably because Comey did not like the size of Trumps hands. According to the WaPo writer who reviewed Comey's book Comey also had claimed to have used his height to play basketball for William and Mary but this turned out to be untrue.

    OTOH we have the diminutive Mark Zuckerberg sitting on a 'booster' seat for his testimony before Congress. Jeff Bezos is another short billionaire. Don't know how tall Bill Gates, Warren Buffett and Larry Ellison are but my impression is they are of average height.

    Billionaires seemed to have been taller in days gone by. Howard Hughes and Henry Ford seemed to be tall lanky men and John Rockefeller also appeared to be above average in height but I could be wrong.

    Bill Gates = 5’10

    Jeff Bezos = 5’8

    Warren Buffett = 5’10

    Mark Zuckerberg = 5’7.5

    Larry Ellison = 6’3

    David Koch = 6’5

    Michael Bloomberg = 5’8

    Larry Page = 5’11

    Sergey Brin = 5’8

    Kevin Systrom = 6’5

    Paul Allen = 5’10

    Sean Parker = 5’10

    Elon Musk = 6’2

    Steve Ballmer = 6’5

    The average height of an American billionaire is 5’11.5” or over 2” taller than the average American male.

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    • Replies: @sabril
    Either that or billionaire men are like most guys in that they exaggerate by an inch or two when they self-report their heights.
    , @Joe Schmoe
    Okay, but they are white, and the white average is 5'10. So, they average only 1.5" above the white average which puts the average at the 60%ile. So, a little taller on average.
    , @AnotherDad
    Just a correction: Steve Ballmer is nowhere near 6'5" and isn't the kind of guy to claim he is. Years back, I was guarding him in a pickup basketball game and blocked one of his shots--which more or less never happens when i have to guard an actual tall guy. Ballmer is a taller--and bigger--guy than the average American male, but he's in the 6 or 6'1" range, pretty sure he's no more than 6'2".
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  67. The Z Blog says: • Website

    Perhaps we should hire a Handicapper General who will force the tall to stoop or maybe remove a few of the vertebrae to make them shorter. Of course, it would mean stretching the short, which would be amusing. Not so much for midgets, but perhaps they would be declared pets, like pygmies are for Bantus.

    We can’t let our inequality divide us!

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    • Replies: @Daniel Williams

    Perhaps we should hire a Handicapper General who will force the tall to stoop or maybe remove a few of the vertebrae to make them shorter. Of course, it would mean stretching the short, which would be amusing.
     
    The venerable and learned negros of ancient Greece were ahead of us on this innovation, like so many others: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Procrustes
    , @Toddy Cat
    Harrison Bergeron, please pick up the white courtesy phone.
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  68. backup says:

    Height was selected for in Northern Europe. But oddly enough it looks like there was a time when selection for decreased height occurred in Southern Europe.

    http://mathii.github.io/review/2015/10/21/selection-on-height-in-europe

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  69. Ayatollah says:

    Height discrimination is mostly a form of discrimination that women inflict on men, which is why short men will never be officially recognized as victims. Also, there are liberals out there who are aware that life is cruel to short men (and to a larger extent, to people who just aren’t attractive) but they say that there is nothing that can be done about it because it’s just human nature (which is probably true).

    But then it never occurs that maybe what they perceive to be unjust discrimination against Blacks and women and gays is the same thing- just human nature. Society didn’t condition White people to prefer to live around other Whites rather than Blacks- nature did (because people are naturally ethnocentric and even if they are able to suppress the urge to be ethnocentric and instead are nice to outgroups, the outgroup might not return the favor and forfeit their own ethnocentric tendencies). Society didn’t condition us to think that women are not suited for certain things, such as armed combat, being a bodyguard, being CEO, etc. just as it didn’t condition us to think it isn’t appropriate for a grown man to be a preschool teacher who hangs out with 4 year-old’s all day (people’s creep detectors are and should be set off by that).

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  70. What about height prejudice against the tall? There are microaggressions everywhere!

    We constantly have to conform ourselves to a world designed for shorter people. Everything is like that: countertops we have to stoop over, shirts that are too short, car seats that end mid-thigh…

    It’s an outrage I tell you!

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  71. Screwtape says:

    Most people – and nearly all women dislike short men. Compensatory qualities can chip away at the disdain, but they will never eclipse it. See: napolean complex or short-mans syndrome. Even successful short men are characterized negatively.

    Charisma, aggression, condfidence, etc. can elevate man beyond his stature. But this takes effort. A short man must cultivate other attributes.

    Nobody chooses shortness nor does height suddenly become a non-factor because a man is “powerful”.

    There is a cost that short-man pay in perpetuity.

    For giggles, look at two things in the brutally honest marketplace of sperm donation.

    One, the majority of clinics accept sperm only from men 6’ and over. A few may go as low as 5’10”, which happens to be roughtly “average”. But thats the minority.

    Two, the “buy side” if you will, has to pay more for sperm from taller men. Height, like credentials and level of disclosure of donor background is one of the primary drivers of price. So is “white” but thats one of those whispers you arent supposed to notice. Price is a function of demand.

    Women (and even males shopping with their women) will pay up for height. There isn’t even a market for men under 5’10” no matter how successful and charismatic the potential donor might be. Buyers are not interested.

    So the eugenic preference is for a height cutoff (6’) which is represented in the population at roughly 19% of men. When a woman throws out that she thinks a 6’ man is her ideal. Shes eliminating 8/10 men straight away. Cue cats.

    The sperm donor market is also a fairly close representation of female hypergamy in the sexual market. “Dating” apps (hypergamy optimization tools) all allow filtering for height.

    As a result, most short men are simply invisible. Until shes down to her last few eggs. Then those compensatory factors get weighted heavily. I.e. The desire for “good schools” for the IVF kid. So timing matters. Keep workin those long hours shorty. One day she will notice you.

    You can see that gynocentric preference drives our culture because tall women are entitled to taller men (hypergamy) even though we are all equal and dont live in caves.

    You’d think a woman dating a shorter man is like a prison sentence. Tall women dont have limited options, they have rigid preferences. Never settle!

    Yet men are not entitled to thin, feminine women. Thats judgy, fat-shaming, regressive patriarchal mysogyny from the ‘50s or something.

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    • Agree: Autochthon
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  72. I don’t have a dog in this fight, being literally exactly average height for males in the US, but I have observed:

    -In fields that require in-person persuasion appearance counts a lot, and height is one of those things that counts. Sales for example is a tall man’s game, as is politics.

    -It’s hard to disentangle this, but I think all things being equal shorter people seem to live longer and healthier. Now if you are shorter because of nutritional deficiencies as a child or some genetic syndrome that is different, but if you are a normal healthy person, everything else equal shorter will live longer. The Japanese live a long long time. Women live longer than men. Small dogs live longer than big dogs. The main cause of cell mutation is errors during replication so the bigger you are, the more mutations you accumulate.

    -In roles that require a lot of accumulated knowledge I’ve always noticed that short people seem to have a slight edge. For example the really good physicians I’ve worked with were often shorter and my engineer friends have also had this observation about really sharp technical people. I think that there is a realization (maybe conscious, maybe not) that the tables are tilted against them for managerial and sales roles. So they really work to develop their knowledge and skill base, which is something that can be more concretely measured.

    -Tall men do much better with women, but once they are married it seems like short men are less likely to divorce and also seem to produce more children.

    I guess when you are young it’s best to be tall but when you are old, best to be short.

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    • Replies: @Anonym
    -In fields that require in-person persuasion appearance counts a lot, and height is one of those things that counts. Sales for example is a tall man’s game, as is politics.

    In sales I would never bet against a short Jew. Confident, charismatic people who can think very quickly on their feet will do well at sales. Most actors would do very well at sales, whether Danny De Vito or Liam Neeson.
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  73. Fascinating about Lord Ribblesdale. I grew up just a few miles from the village of Gisburn, the ancestral home of the Lister (Ribblesdale) family.

    The first Lord Ribblesdale is reputed to have planted over 1 million oak trees in that part of Ribblesdale, presumably close to the River Ribble, as much of the territory is treeless higher ground.

    The title of Lord Ribblesdale died out in 1925 after the First World War as the two male heirs to the title were both killed in action, like Kipling’s son.

    Gisburn, at the time I was growing up, was a center for training jumps race horses under the Dickinson family. Don’t know if it still is.

    http://www.gisburn.org.uk/

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    • Replies: @Charles Pewitt

    Gisburn, at the time I was growing up, was a center for training jumps race horses under the Dickinson family. Don’t know if it still is.

     

    I'll refuse to believe any American that says they can see the placename Gisburn without unpleasantly thinking of Ruth Bader Ginsburg.

    Blackburn brings to mind Tennessee political leader Marsha Blackburn, who is good looking now, but she must have been extraordinarily beautiful when she was younger.

    No more of this Gisburn.

    Jumping horses are like young buck human athletes, potentially explosive and very lively. The person who coaches them or looks after them at a stable must be aware of their antics at all times.
    , @D. K.
    I had a friend at Purdue who was the daughter of an Engineering professor who was originally from England. The daughter was about 6'1" tall and kept her own horse at the Purdue stables. (The only time that I ever have been on a horse was with her.) The father and daughter's surname was Lister.
    , @Old Palo Altan
    I lived in the general area of Gisburn (but in Yorkshire) in the 1980s, and am happy to admit that is a place I would move back to tomorrow if given the chance. England, and the English, at their very best.

    Ribblesdale was a Liberal, but not a liberal. He, and the titular head of his party after the death of Gladstone, the Duke of Devonshire, would be taken for "fascists" today. They were in fact much less friendly to the labouring classes than were the old-fashioned Tories like the Marquess of Salisbury. Noblesse oblige is a conservative idea, not a liberal one.
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  74. @Doug
    There was a thread on this on Reddit the other day:

    https://www.reddit.com/r/dataisbeautiful/comments/8b5sju/satisfaction_with_height_as_a_function_of/

    Self-satisfaction with height peaks at 5'9" for women and 6'3" for men.

    There seems to be a sweet spot between +2 and +3 SD for a lot of human characteristics.

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  75. Altai says:

    I guess Steve saw this?

    The new Spider-Man, Tom Holland is 21 or 22 but shorter than Robert Downy Jr (Thus able to play teenaged Peter Parker for some time, but I don’t think would make a very compelling adult Peter Parker.) and his father had two programmes on BBC radio whose titles reflected the degree to which his height (5’6″ according to wikipedia) loomed over him considering they were radio programmes…

    ‘The Small World of Dominic Holland’ and ‘Holland’s Shorts’.

    As Steve knows, height privilege is something which mostly impacts men and who cares about short men? They’re men afterall. There is a whole subreddit full of short men venting their feelings.

    https://www.reddit.com/r/short/

    There is also this one which is about Asian-Americans lamenting their low sexual status which I suspect has much to do with height as anything else.

    https://www.reddit.com/r/AsianMasculinity/

    Just looking up ‘height privilege’ on google also showed me this post on /r/tall discussing what thresholds of height constitute privilege or lack thereof.

    https://www.reddit.com/r/tall/comments/3qx2lv/i_hear_a_lot_of_talk_about_height_privilege_what/

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    • Replies: @bartok

    Asian-Americans lamenting their low sexual status which I suspect has much to do with height as anything else.
     
    It's also neoteny - baby face and baby fat. Not a sexy look for men, very sexy for women.
    iSteve wrote a classic article on % fat for lean people by race and sex corresponding to attractiveness as evidenced by miscegenation rates.
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  76. @nglaer
    Girls don't like to go out with guys who aren't taller than them. My daughters are 5-8 and 5-11 and it limits their options.

    So “don’t like” “limits their options?”

    So if I only date pretty women that limits my options for dating?

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    • Replies: @L Woods
    I know how this sounds, but...as a tall, facially-attractive male, I can't really be satisfied with a woman that isn't of comparable physical attractiveness, even though I realize that physical attractiveness in men and women isn't equivalent in importance. I'm sort of the mirror image of high SES women who won't date (or at least, marry) down. So in that sense, I can sort of empathize with the plight of tall women...I guess.
    , @Autochthon

    So if I only date pretty women that limits my options for dating?
     
    Since not all women are pretty: Yes; yes it does. This conclusion follows from such rudimentary logic most children can easily understand it. (I shan't even bother with presenting the formal proof.)
    , @Reg Cæsar

    So if I only date pretty women that limits my options for dating?

     

    Not if you lower your standards.
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  77. Pat Boyle says:

    I used to comment on Steve’s original blog under the nom de guerre of Albertosaurus. I remember a long series of posts back and forth about being 6’4″. We were both that height back then. I lost a inch or more when I fell off the cliff. But I still remember what is was like to be tall. I told my doctor about my feelings of personal inadequacy at being only 6’3″. He found it hard to empathize. He’s Korean and probably no more than 5’2″.

    You wrote a column years ago about how tall Michael Crichton was. You claimed he was the tallest non-basketball player in world history (or something). He was 6’9″. I wrote back mentioning Maximinius Trax who was a late Roman emperor and eight feet tall (or was in nine?). That’s probably not true but it is in the Augustan histories.

    I asked my doctor about a sprained Achilles tendon once and he told me to try lifts. I order a variety of these things Hollywood stars stick in their shoes. I worked my way up to the biggest ones. They were three inchers. I put them on and walked around at 6’7″. It was wonderful. I was euphoric. A complete stranger saw me walking around in them and commented on how remarkably tall I was.

    But after about fifteen minutes my back was killing me. Al Pacino must have a high threshold for pain. Elevator shoes really screw up your posture and throw out your back.

    BTW even at 6’7″ I still wasn’t as tall a Comey.

    6’4″ as a height has much to recommend it. Steve, me, Abe Lincoln and John Wayne. Not a bad group. Hollywood male movie stars all seem to wear lifts until they get to 6’4″. Then they lie about their height. Dolph Lundgren was originally rejected for his Rocky movie because he was more that 6’4″. Paul Bettany and Lee Pace both lie about their heights. 6’4″ seems to be the maximum height a man can be in the movies unless he plays some creature or freak. You can play a normal man if you are 6’4″ but no taller.

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    • Replies: @The Anti-Gnostic
    Been reading your comments for years Pat. Hope to read them for many more.

    Stay thirsty, my friend.

    http://phillyinfluencer.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/dos-equis.jpg
    , @Chrisnonymous
    Sometimes Steve plays a normal man, but poorly.
    , @Marty
    Today on Bay Area radio, I heard someone who used to be recognized as 6'9", referred to as 6'6". That person was Don Nelson, erstwhile Celtic and coach of the Warriors. The speaker was ex-Warrior Tom Tolbert, who when he was playing was listed at 6'7", but who now claims to be 6'8".
    , @Simon Tugmutton
    According to Wikipedia, Ted Cassidy (Lurch in The Addams Family TV series) was 6'9":

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ted_Cassidy
    , @Reg Cæsar

    I lost a inch or more when I fell off the cliff.

     

    Consider yourself lucky. Mike Smith, lead singer for the Dave Clark Five, also fell off a cliff, and lost a whole lot more. So did Doug Kenney of National Lampoon and Animal House fame.

    Falling off the wagon isn't good, either, but is more survivable.

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  78. Nobody these days gets additional Intersectional Pokemon Points for being short.

    Here our iSteve is really on to something.

    Actually it’s the converse. I would argue that individuals receive an Intersectional Pokemon Dispensationary Indulgence that overcomes almost all other Intersectional Pokemon Point deficiencies for being tall. These even applies to straight, white men.

    As a theory of why: it’s 4 parts perfectly natural (we all follow tall, we can’t help it – men and women) – we only don’t if we literally consciously stop to think about what we are doing.

    But: it’s 1 part intentional. If we took all those studies that find that “straight, white, men” are disproportionally represented in the top 5% – and we added “tall”, we’d find out that the first 3 variables: straight, white and male, lose their predictive capacity on the multiple linear regression and suddenly we’d be confronted with straight, white, men – not tall, in massive numbers, who have not been allotted their fair share of Intersectional Pokemon Points.

    Then the House of Cards comes apart.

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  79. The NYC subways discriminate against tall kids – 44 inches tall and under ride for free – http://web.mta.info/metrocard/mcgtreng.htm.

    This of course discriminates against Blacks and Whites in favor of Asians. Years ago in the consent decree for the San Francisco Fire Department, they were forced to drop the height requirement for firefighters as it was said do discriminate against Asians.

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    • Replies: @Brutusale
    Back when Kareem Abdul-Jabbar was still Lew Alcindor he talked about having to carry his birth certificate to the Saturday afternoon triple features at the theater because nobody believed he was young enough for the kids' ticket price.
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  80. Anonymous[363] • Disclaimer says:

    LBJ was apparently very tall. He was also allegedly very well endowed and liked to boast of his dick size in casual conversation. Are these two things related?

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    • Replies: @prosa123
    "LBJ was apparently very tall. He was also allegedly very well endowed and liked to boast of his dick size in casual conversation. Are these two things related?"

    Johnson was in poor health from his late 40's onward. His selection as JFK's running mate in 1960 was controversial in part due to concerns over his health even though he was barely 50 at the time. He was a feeble old man by 60 and finished off completely at 64.
    , @Autochthon

    [D]ick size also figures prominently in Make Up to Break Up. [Peter – five feet and nine inches tall –] Criss brags throughout that his penis is so huge he calls it the Spoiler, because it spoils women for all other men. (Though I like to imagine it’s also because it gives away the endings to movies. So if a woman sleeps with Criss she’ll wake up sexually satisfied and cognizant of the twist ending of The Sixth Sense.) As for [six-foot-tall Paul] Stanley, Criss writes that he was so lacking in the size department that when Kiss went on tour with Aerosmith, he took to stuffing his crotch. – Nathan Rabin
     
    Having read books by and about musicians, I thought of guys in rock bands as a pool of persons about whom there may well be a sizable (tee-hee) collection of knowledge regarding endowment, and, lo! – according to this admittedly unscientific piece (tee-hee), "The Long & The Short of It", there does seem to be a trend of reports from groupies that tall, skinny men are also commonly...substantial.
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  81. @sabril
    I would guess it's because height prejudice disproportionately affects men.

    The Western world is intensely gynocentric, i.e. obsessed with the wants and needs and issues of women but cares very little about men. Men compete for wealth, status, etc., and the ones who come up short (sometimes literally) are thought to merit very little societal concern as a group.

    You can compare height bias with bias against fat people, which gets a good deal of attention. Presumably because bias against fat people disproportionately affects women.

    You can compare height bias with bias against fat people, which gets a good deal of attention. Presumably because bias against fat people disproportionately affects women.

    And yet the bias against fat people is completely fair, because people chose to be fat.

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    • Replies: @L Woods
    Yup.
    , @ScarletNumber

    people chose to be fat
     
    Are you sure about that?
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  82. WGG says:

    Off topic:

    The DNC filed a lawsuit against Trump, Wikileaks and the Russian government for “colluding” to influence the election.

    Most right leaning pundits are laughing it off and calling it desperate and a PR stunt. It’s actually about controlling the venue, and therefore discovery to create their own narrative in light of likely forthcoming charges against McCabe.

    It is about venue control and jurisdiction i.e. they are judge shopping.

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  83. @sabril
    I would guess it's because height prejudice disproportionately affects men.

    The Western world is intensely gynocentric, i.e. obsessed with the wants and needs and issues of women but cares very little about men. Men compete for wealth, status, etc., and the ones who come up short (sometimes literally) are thought to merit very little societal concern as a group.

    You can compare height bias with bias against fat people, which gets a good deal of attention. Presumably because bias against fat people disproportionately affects women.

    I think preference for tall men is more like preference for women with pretty faces than preference for slender women. Being fat has many verifiable practical disadvantages that are still relevant in the modern world. It affects health outcomes for nearly everything from lifespan to the ability to deliver a healthy baby. OTOH, being tall and being pretty create no practical advantages for anything necessary in the modern world. They are valued for the sake of themselves.

    People pity short men and unpretty ladies. But I guess these are not SJW causes because everyone has always known it sucks to be either of those things and it was never considered a character failing to be those things. SJW causes focus on forms of deviance that were once thought to be sinful or degenerate like homosexuality and transgenderism. Or they focus on things like race as being black was once thought of as synonymous with being primitive or less rationally developed.

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    • Replies: @sabril
    I think that in fact there is some agitation over "lookism," but it's normally presented in a gynocentric way, i.e. "it's outrageous that women are judged by their looks." It hasn't pickup much legislative steam yet, but it's still light years ahead of heightism against men in terms of social concern.

    Remember how Donald Trump ridiculed one of his opponents for being short? He caught some flak for it, but imagine the reaction if he had ridiculed a female opponent for being ugly.
    , @Anthony Wayne
    Prettiness can indicate low mutational load and genetic fitness. It also has the practical advantage of people liking you more.
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  84. @unit472
    James Comey cares. In fact he promoted Andrew McCabe to his own towering status when he declared McCabe 'Stood tall" against the 'small people' who were his detractors. He also noted that President Trump did not appear as tall as he actually is probably because Comey did not like the size of Trumps hands. According to the WaPo writer who reviewed Comey's book Comey also had claimed to have used his height to play basketball for William and Mary but this turned out to be untrue.

    OTOH we have the diminutive Mark Zuckerberg sitting on a 'booster' seat for his testimony before Congress. Jeff Bezos is another short billionaire. Don't know how tall Bill Gates, Warren Buffett and Larry Ellison are but my impression is they are of average height.

    Billionaires seemed to have been taller in days gone by. Howard Hughes and Henry Ford seemed to be tall lanky men and John Rockefeller also appeared to be above average in height but I could be wrong.

    Don’t know how tall Bill Gates, Warren Buffett and Larry Ellison are but my impression is they are of average height.

    I can tell you from personal experience that Bill Gates is my height (within less than an inch)–bog standard American white average. On the other hand, never been around him, but pretty sure Larry Ellison is a tall guy.

    Billionaires seem more average now, because relative to other people they are more average because with adequate nutrition most Americans can grow to their natural genetic height. Height is correlated with IQ and other positive traits–but the correlation with height isn’t particularly strong.

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  85. eric says:

    Attractiveness in general is associated with greater economic success, and obviously sexual success, and clearly a lot of that is genetic (especially the face). One could add extraversion and other somewhat genetic predispositions. We should definitely add them to the matrix of things the Handicapper General should be targeting.

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    • Replies: @L Woods
    Extraversion is really everything in the degenerate, anarchic SMP of today. I just saw some short, zero of an Indian dude pull an attractive white woman the other day. Why? Because he was the first to open his mouth and the last to shut it. It's a simple race to the bottom. QED.
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  86. @sabril
    I would guess it's because height prejudice disproportionately affects men.

    The Western world is intensely gynocentric, i.e. obsessed with the wants and needs and issues of women but cares very little about men. Men compete for wealth, status, etc., and the ones who come up short (sometimes literally) are thought to merit very little societal concern as a group.

    You can compare height bias with bias against fat people, which gets a good deal of attention. Presumably because bias against fat people disproportionately affects women.

    I would guess it’s because height prejudice disproportionately affects men.

    The Western world is intensely gynocentric, i.e. obsessed with the wants and needs and issues of women but cares very little about men. Men compete for wealth, status, etc., and the ones who come up short (sometimes literally) are thought to merit very little societal concern as a group.

    You can compare height bias with bias against fat people, which gets a good deal of attention. Presumably because bias against fat people disproportionately affects women.

    Isn’t there a whole species of memes about this, cannibalizing the dating profiles of fat (often short as well) women who state that they won’t date a man under 6′ or whatever?

    I think your thesis is sound – whatever bonus height confers largely inures to men, and whatever detriment shortness confers falls principally on men too. Most women are solipsists at heart so they don’t really care if “height-ism” isn’t a thing because it doesn’t affect them. Most women however fear getting fat and unlovable, so these fat acceptance movements have a more favorable female audience. It’s also the case that women relish sabotaging their rivals, so convincing chubby girls to embrace getting disgustingly fat on the pretext of self-love is something that appeals to the female Id too.

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  87. @prosa123
    Napoleon was not as short as legend holds. Reports in English newspapers at the time of his rise started the legend by often saying that he stood 5'2", when in fact this was a misinterpretation from a pre-metric French system of measurement then in use. He actually was 5'6", which was only an inch or two less than the average European male of his time. In person, Napoleon seemed shorter than he actually was because he always surrounded himself by a team of huge hulking bodyguards.

    I was going to reply the same, but you beat me to it. Also, the myth persists that Napoleon was “short” (even, as you point out, he was the average height of a Frenchman in that time) because he…lost. To Arthur Wellesley, the Duke of Wellington. Who was…an aristocrat. And taller than Bonaparte (though not by much at 5’9″). The winners get to write history, after all. Interestingly, the Brits had a death mask made of Napoleon, so we have a good idea what he actually looked like (in the pre-photography era):

    Also, the Duke of Wellington looks very much like, well, an English Duke, a la Lord Ribblesdale as mentioned above:

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  88. @Pat Boyle
    I used to comment on Steve's original blog under the nom de guerre of Albertosaurus. I remember a long series of posts back and forth about being 6'4". We were both that height back then. I lost a inch or more when I fell off the cliff. But I still remember what is was like to be tall. I told my doctor about my feelings of personal inadequacy at being only 6'3". He found it hard to empathize. He's Korean and probably no more than 5'2".

    You wrote a column years ago about how tall Michael Crichton was. You claimed he was the tallest non-basketball player in world history (or something). He was 6'9". I wrote back mentioning Maximinius Trax who was a late Roman emperor and eight feet tall (or was in nine?). That's probably not true but it is in the Augustan histories.

    I asked my doctor about a sprained Achilles tendon once and he told me to try lifts. I order a variety of these things Hollywood stars stick in their shoes. I worked my way up to the biggest ones. They were three inchers. I put them on and walked around at 6'7". It was wonderful. I was euphoric. A complete stranger saw me walking around in them and commented on how remarkably tall I was.

    But after about fifteen minutes my back was killing me. Al Pacino must have a high threshold for pain. Elevator shoes really screw up your posture and throw out your back.

    BTW even at 6'7" I still wasn't as tall a Comey.

    6'4" as a height has much to recommend it. Steve, me, Abe Lincoln and John Wayne. Not a bad group. Hollywood male movie stars all seem to wear lifts until they get to 6'4". Then they lie about their height. Dolph Lundgren was originally rejected for his Rocky movie because he was more that 6'4". Paul Bettany and Lee Pace both lie about their heights. 6'4" seems to be the maximum height a man can be in the movies unless he plays some creature or freak. You can play a normal man if you are 6'4" but no taller.

    Been reading your comments for years Pat. Hope to read them for many more.

    Stay thirsty, my friend.

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  89. JA says:

    Women are prejudiced against short men.

    Therefore, it’s an acceptable prejudice.

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  90. res says:
    @Anonymous
    Apparently, 1960s British pop group the 'Small Faces' were so-named because they all, literally, had small faces.

    Who knows what is real and what is PR, but this account differs: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Small_Faces#Origins_(1965)

    The group chose the name, Small Faces, for many reasons: because of the members’ small physical stature[12] and “A ‘Face’ was somebody special, more than just a snappy dresser, he was Mister Cool.”[13]

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  91. @Peter Johnson
    That seems very unfair to Robert Reich, who has managed to get a mainstream-published book, full to the brim with HBD-consistent science, through the HBD-censorship system. Even if he wants to claim otherwise, he is an HBD hero. So we should be nice to him; he is helping us to tear down the barriers to open scientific enquiry.

    He means Adolf Reich, and he was actually 5’9″. Conquered most of Europe from a country the size of Montana.

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    • Replies: @Kratoklastes
    Wasn't that actually Adolf Reich III?
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  92. @Doug
    There was a thread on this on Reddit the other day:

    https://www.reddit.com/r/dataisbeautiful/comments/8b5sju/satisfaction_with_height_as_a_function_of/

    Self-satisfaction with height peaks at 5'9" for women and 6'3" for men.

    Self-satisfaction with height peaks at 5’9″ for women and 6’3″ for men.

    I’m satisfied that I am taller than that midget Limey Mick Jagger. This filthy multi-millionaire Limey Mick Jagger ain’t no 5 feet 10 inches tall. I bet he’s 5 feet seven inches if he’s lucky. And Jagger is slightly built to boot.

    I know 3 things about money-grubber Mick Jagger:

    1) Jagger is obsessed with real estate prices, like a good middle class Limey striver;

    3) Jagger is not 5 feet 10 inches tall;

    3) Jagger’s got the onions to wear football tights and dance around in a cherry picker bucket — that’s the kind of onions that will land you Jerry Hall in her prime. Got to give Jagger credit for that. Brian Ferry must have had enough of the Texas charms of Jerry Hall, he never clobbered that Jagger for stealing away Hall.

    Jerry Hall and Rupert Murdoch — the imperial rot continues.

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    • Replies: @YetAnotherAnon
    Mr Jagger also sampled Carla Bruni in her prime, long before M. Sarkozy cast an eye on her.

    Jagger is an intelligent chap who's fathered 8 children. He's 74 and his dad died at 93, so he has time for more. On the other hand, Paul Weller of The Jam and Style Council also has 8, and he's "only" 59!

    Tangentially on topic, this tweet shows interracial marriages in the US. It looks like either Yellow Fever is a thing or White Fever is. For every Oriental ethnicity, more women than men marry whites. More Japanese and Filipino women marry white men than they marry men of their own race. 90% of white women who marry choose a white spouse.

    Of course this says nothing about the couples who aren't married.

    https://twitter.com/tcjfs/status/986619976244191233
    , @Tony
    Mick Jagger was known to have a small schween. Maybe he really was a mick.
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  93. Simon says:

    Have heard it said that George Washington’s height (Wiki says 6-1 or 6-2, maybe more) and overall dashing appearance helped make him a natural leader. People who saw him were instantly impressed.

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  94. Elsewhere says:
    @Daniel Chieh
    It's easy to start this: explain the intersection of how height prejudice decreases the number of female CEOs and managers.

    I should monetize this.

    If I recall correctly, Jordan Peterson used precisely this argument as an example of a possible source of the disparity in female CEOs in his interview with Cathy Newman. He then focused on the more plausible one of personality differences.

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  95. Short men can date tall women, but they need an X-factor.

    Tiny club -footed actor Dudley Moore dated amazons. Rupert Murdoch is married to Jerry Hall, and diminutive, bald, jug eared millionaire UK magician Paul Daniels left a tall blonde widow. Andrew Lloyd Webber has done well with the chicks in spite of being short and ugly. Napoleon scored with Josephine, and Prince Charles with Diana.

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  96. @Jonathan Mason
    Fascinating about Lord Ribblesdale. I grew up just a few miles from the village of Gisburn, the ancestral home of the Lister (Ribblesdale) family.

    The first Lord Ribblesdale is reputed to have planted over 1 million oak trees in that part of Ribblesdale, presumably close to the River Ribble, as much of the territory is treeless higher ground.

    The title of Lord Ribblesdale died out in 1925 after the First World War as the two male heirs to the title were both killed in action, like Kipling's son.

    Gisburn, at the time I was growing up, was a center for training jumps race horses under the Dickinson family. Don't know if it still is.

    http://www.gisburn.org.uk/

    Gisburn, at the time I was growing up, was a center for training jumps race horses under the Dickinson family. Don’t know if it still is.

    I’ll refuse to believe any American that says they can see the placename Gisburn without unpleasantly thinking of Ruth Bader Ginsburg.

    Blackburn brings to mind Tennessee political leader Marsha Blackburn, who is good looking now, but she must have been extraordinarily beautiful when she was younger.

    No more of this Gisburn.

    Jumping horses are like young buck human athletes, potentially explosive and very lively. The person who coaches them or looks after them at a stable must be aware of their antics at all times.

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  97. Dave Pinsen says: • Website

    Height (up to a point) is a component of attractiveness. There’s not much concern about unattractive prejudice either.

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  98. sabril says:
    @little spoon
    I think preference for tall men is more like preference for women with pretty faces than preference for slender women. Being fat has many verifiable practical disadvantages that are still relevant in the modern world. It affects health outcomes for nearly everything from lifespan to the ability to deliver a healthy baby. OTOH, being tall and being pretty create no practical advantages for anything necessary in the modern world. They are valued for the sake of themselves.

    People pity short men and unpretty ladies. But I guess these are not SJW causes because everyone has always known it sucks to be either of those things and it was never considered a character failing to be those things. SJW causes focus on forms of deviance that were once thought to be sinful or degenerate like homosexuality and transgenderism. Or they focus on things like race as being black was once thought of as synonymous with being primitive or less rationally developed.

    I think that in fact there is some agitation over “lookism,” but it’s normally presented in a gynocentric way, i.e. “it’s outrageous that women are judged by their looks.” It hasn’t pickup much legislative steam yet, but it’s still light years ahead of heightism against men in terms of social concern.

    Remember how Donald Trump ridiculed one of his opponents for being short? He caught some flak for it, but imagine the reaction if he had ridiculed a female opponent for being ugly.

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    • Replies: @Buck
    "With a face like that?"
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  99. J.Ross says: • Website

    I can’t prove this and my shortness is ridiculous so I’m very biased, but I think that what I would call “precautionary respect” (ie, giving a short or foreign guy the benefit of the doubt, not unconsciously assuming that a short coworker is factually wrong until he argues his case separately and completely) is tied to literacy since literacy makes you accept that looks aren’t everything. Neil Postman had a similar idea about sexual morality (literacy enables more abstract thinking and the penalizing of some forms of impulse gratification: illiterate or minimally literate people don’t see what’s wrong). This would lead us to expect that TV, Facebook and a decline in reading have made pointedly disrespecting short people noticeably worse within about one lifetime. And you can’t complain about it because a short man complaining about being short is hilarious and not serious, no matter the money involved. This is exacerbated by the current liberalization of female sexuality as its own justification coupled with near monopolization of hiring — in other words, right now is the maximum leeway an underqualified but tall man has to get a job, and a time period of widespread deep literacy like the late Victorian era or the early nineteen sixties would be low points. It’s proof of the phoniness of the ad-hoc ultra-sensitivity of the pinkhairs, they are very quick to laugh at certain things. I’ve been in conversations where a taller person “corrects” me with the answer I had just given.

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    • Replies: @Stan d Mute

    I’ve been in conversations where a taller person “corrects” me with the answer I had just given.
     
    Speak up from down there if you want us grownups to hear you!

    https://youtu.be/8bfyS-S-IJs
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  100. Buck says:

    At 5’9″, I’m the shortest in my immediate family by far. Only one other male cousin out of a dozen resides with me south of 6′. My short stature is probably somewhat genetic but I also cut weight as a High School wrestler in those growing years which makes me think I may have stunted my own growth. Wrestling is one sport which doesn’t preference height. Wrestlers need fast-twitch muscles and lots of them in a compact frame. Speed, strength and stamina are more important than stature.

    I would be interested to know about other sports. Jockeys are tiny but the horse is the real athlete. Hockey?

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    • Replies: @prosa123
    "I would be interested to know about other sports. Jockeys are tiny but the horse is the real athlete. Hockey?"

    Not height per se, but being long-limbed is a disadvantage in powerlifting because it increases the required range of motion for each lift.
    , @Stan d Mute

    I would be interested to know about other sports. Jockeys are tiny but the horse is the real athlete. Hockey?
     
    Most is just common sense physics isn’t it? Motorsports are largely a function of power/weight. Taller folk are heavier so you’ll see more short guys as racing car or motorcycle drivers/riders. Hockey, skiing, or soccer are dependent on fast change in direction and favor shorter lighter people except in positions such as goalkeeper where blocking maximum space is of value.

    Are there any good counterintuitive examples? Ping pong or tennis where reach might be of higher value in the confines of the game than ability to change direction more quickly?
    , @Brutusale
    It's the rare major league pitcher who's under 6 feet.
    , @Marty T
    NHL players average 6'1 so hockey selects for height less than the other major US sports, but height still matters. Soccer is better for short guys.
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  101. sabril says:
    @Wency
    True.

    Also, this is compounded by the fact that women are generally crueler/less sympathetic to men they find unattractive than men are to unattractive women (at least among adults). Women feel the need to maintain the "bitch shield" to actively repel such men, while men don't need to do this.

    But also this factor plays out mostly in the dating world. And there's never going to be much of a push for equality in that arena.

    It's true that there are also some career advantages to being tall, but I think this is most true in politics and traditional corporate management sorts of roles. If you're anything but impressively tall, handsome, and charming, you should avoid these sorts of career tracks. Not hard to do.

    I'm 5'8", and I've never felt the slightest bit of impact to my career from being short. But relative to my 6'+ friends, I've felt the impact in terms of women's reactions my entire adult life.

    But also this factor plays out mostly in the dating world. And there’s never going to be much of a push for equality in that arena.

    I agree that such a push would be impractical, since you can’t impose dating quotas on people like you can impose hiring or admissions quotas. But that hasn’t stopped a lot of mainstream publications from trying to convince the public that fat women are sexually attractive.

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  102. Bear says:

    OT. Steve – two words: Randa Jarrar. Packed with Steve-i-ness. Bonus: Michelle Goldberg’s NYT column.

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  103. @Hang Seng Index
    Height has diminishing returns.
    Consider relation to attractiveness.
    See how many genuinely attractive ~6' women there are.
    See how many among ~6' 3"+ men.
    They may as well be unicorns, except for Tom Brady couple.
    Attractiveness explains much about shorter leading men.

    Attractiveness explains much about shorter leading men.

    Vulnerability captured by the camera along with good looks and the audience’s desire to root for the underdog.

    My heart was filled with joy when I saw that I was taller and better built than Viggo Mortensen. Mortensen played a great hero in those Lord of The Rings movies. The human heart finds joy in odd places, inexplicably. Viggo Mortensen is tiny, and he is more pretty than handsome. But, the camera picks up the scrappy charisma of Mortensen and the audience roots for him.

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    • Replies: @sabril
    I would guess a lot of it is that short people tend to be better coordinated than tall people. Good coordination is probably helpful for acting.
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  104. @Anonymous
    James Comey makes even the 6' 2" Donald Trump look small by comparison.

    James Comey makes even the 6′ 2″ Donald Trump look small by comparison.

    Comey may have a half a foot on Trumpy, but Trumpy is built like a linebacker. Comey is all Celtic muttonhead like a David Byrne type. Trumpy in person is a fellow you wouldn’t go out of your way to agitate.

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    • Replies: @Autochthon
    I've stood about fifteen feet from the president; I estimate he could prevail over most other men his age – I exclude superbly fit yet elderly outliers like Jack Lelane was, of course – in fight, for sure. Yeah, he's got a paunch, but most every man his age does; indeed, most have a much larger one, and without his height and breadth at the shoulders. I've never been in Comey's presence, but he strikes me as a pencil-pushing weasel of the sort likely to threaten to sue anyone who shoved him, rather than to shove back and ask "What's the big idea!?"

    Is anyone familiar with training for the FBI and requirements for its people after whatever preliminary training occurs? Are those guys more like the military, where to become a fat-body or a weakling is to be pushed out for failing the minimal standards for physical fitness, or are they more like the vast majority of police, who so often become flabby and otherwise worthless after a few years on the force because no such standards are enforced? I'm genuinely curious.
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  105. Buck says:
    @sabril
    I think that in fact there is some agitation over "lookism," but it's normally presented in a gynocentric way, i.e. "it's outrageous that women are judged by their looks." It hasn't pickup much legislative steam yet, but it's still light years ahead of heightism against men in terms of social concern.

    Remember how Donald Trump ridiculed one of his opponents for being short? He caught some flak for it, but imagine the reaction if he had ridiculed a female opponent for being ugly.

    “With a face like that?”

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    • Replies: @James Kabala
    I know. How soon we forget. Maybe it would have gotten more attention if Fiorina had actually been one of the leading candidates, as Rubio (somehow) was.
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  106. @Wency
    "Aztec hotel room maid"

    Geez, man. Columba's no Melania, but she's a rather light-skinned Mestizo and was OK in her youth:

    http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/01/20/24D32C6E00000578-0-image-a-51_1421788791921.jpg

    A solid 6, maybe even a 7 on a good day. Main flaw is that jaw. A guy like Jeb would likely have done much worse if not for height + Bush name. She has also remained reasonably fit (though this always seems true of political wives).

    One curious thing is that all of their children seem to have about the same complexion as Columba, if not slightly darker. Google some of their family photos. Given Steve's earlier speculations about paternity, not to mention Jeb being more or less patient zero for the word "cuckservative", I'm surprised this hasn't been mentioned more in these circles.

    It’s likely Columba has avoided the sun her entire life at the direction of her mother or abuela.

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  107. sabril says:
    @George
    Albert Einstein was 5′ 9″ Tesla was 6' 2" I wonder if you took one of those lists of important intellectuals what their average height would end up being? Is there an optimal height for humans?

    Is there an optimal height for humans?

    For what purpose? Living a long and healthy life? Spreading your genes far and wide? Being as smart as possible?

    I would guess that for spreading your genes, the optimal height (for a man) is “a little bit taller than most other guys.” In other words, I wouldn’t be surprised at all if it turned out that the optimal height (in terms of general health and well-being) is like 5’5″.

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  108. @little spoon
    I think preference for tall men is more like preference for women with pretty faces than preference for slender women. Being fat has many verifiable practical disadvantages that are still relevant in the modern world. It affects health outcomes for nearly everything from lifespan to the ability to deliver a healthy baby. OTOH, being tall and being pretty create no practical advantages for anything necessary in the modern world. They are valued for the sake of themselves.

    People pity short men and unpretty ladies. But I guess these are not SJW causes because everyone has always known it sucks to be either of those things and it was never considered a character failing to be those things. SJW causes focus on forms of deviance that were once thought to be sinful or degenerate like homosexuality and transgenderism. Or they focus on things like race as being black was once thought of as synonymous with being primitive or less rationally developed.

    Prettiness can indicate low mutational load and genetic fitness. It also has the practical advantage of people liking you more.

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  109. Anonymous[363] • Disclaimer says:
    @MikeatMikedotMike
    I am 6' 4" and while in the Marine Corps I spent 14 months of my life living on 2 Naval vessels. By the end of it I might as well have been the the Hunchback of Notre Dame because banging one's head on every low handing hatchway, pipe, bracket, or duct produces that adaptation.

    I would also add toilets, snow shovels, commercial vehicle day cabs, and pants to your list of discrimination.

    Tall guys should be pushing bayonets not crawling around inside of machines.

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  110. L Woods says:
    @The Anti-Gnostic
    Tall women have the same problem in the other direction. Attractive 6' women have a smaller pool of sexually attractive men to compete over. There's probably a roughly golden-mean of bodily proportion ratios between sexual partners. As I heard one woman put it, she wouldn't have sex with someone she felt she could hold in her lap.

    An outlier phenomenon I've noticed is tall men with poor self-image/confidence. Short men seem to have powerful compensatory measures that kick in but I've met tall men who seem unable to capitalize on their height in the sexual market. Jeb Bush, who married his Aztec hotel room maid, is a good example.

    On the right side tail, sheer bigness is a real health issue. The other day sports talk was going nuts over a redshirt freshman at UGA who's 6'7" and 330 pounds. If he goes on to pay the toll of professional football he'll probably be dead by age 60. If the NFL was forward-thinking and sympathetic, instead of just greedy and stupid, they'd figure out some way to dial back the athletic arms race.

    tall men who seem unable to capitalize on their height in the sexual market.

    That’s because success in today’s SMP is single elimination. You can be tall, good looking, affluent, and…what’s that? You’re not an extrovert? You’re not a mesomorph? No prizes for you loser.

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  111. D. K. says:
    @Jonathan Mason
    Fascinating about Lord Ribblesdale. I grew up just a few miles from the village of Gisburn, the ancestral home of the Lister (Ribblesdale) family.

    The first Lord Ribblesdale is reputed to have planted over 1 million oak trees in that part of Ribblesdale, presumably close to the River Ribble, as much of the territory is treeless higher ground.

    The title of Lord Ribblesdale died out in 1925 after the First World War as the two male heirs to the title were both killed in action, like Kipling's son.

    Gisburn, at the time I was growing up, was a center for training jumps race horses under the Dickinson family. Don't know if it still is.

    http://www.gisburn.org.uk/

    I had a friend at Purdue who was the daughter of an Engineering professor who was originally from England. The daughter was about 6’1″ tall and kept her own horse at the Purdue stables. (The only time that I ever have been on a horse was with her.) The father and daughter’s surname was Lister.

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    • Replies: @Shaq
    6’ 5” Tiny Lister?

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Lister_Jr.
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  112. Anonymous[363] • Disclaimer says:
    @Wency
    "Aztec hotel room maid"

    Geez, man. Columba's no Melania, but she's a rather light-skinned Mestizo and was OK in her youth:

    http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/01/20/24D32C6E00000578-0-image-a-51_1421788791921.jpg

    A solid 6, maybe even a 7 on a good day. Main flaw is that jaw. A guy like Jeb would likely have done much worse if not for height + Bush name. She has also remained reasonably fit (though this always seems true of political wives).

    One curious thing is that all of their children seem to have about the same complexion as Columba, if not slightly darker. Google some of their family photos. Given Steve's earlier speculations about paternity, not to mention Jeb being more or less patient zero for the word "cuckservative", I'm surprised this hasn't been mentioned more in these circles.

    I’d guess she was Italian or Spanish if I knew nothing else about her.

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  113. @Pat Boyle
    I used to comment on Steve's original blog under the nom de guerre of Albertosaurus. I remember a long series of posts back and forth about being 6'4". We were both that height back then. I lost a inch or more when I fell off the cliff. But I still remember what is was like to be tall. I told my doctor about my feelings of personal inadequacy at being only 6'3". He found it hard to empathize. He's Korean and probably no more than 5'2".

    You wrote a column years ago about how tall Michael Crichton was. You claimed he was the tallest non-basketball player in world history (or something). He was 6'9". I wrote back mentioning Maximinius Trax who was a late Roman emperor and eight feet tall (or was in nine?). That's probably not true but it is in the Augustan histories.

    I asked my doctor about a sprained Achilles tendon once and he told me to try lifts. I order a variety of these things Hollywood stars stick in their shoes. I worked my way up to the biggest ones. They were three inchers. I put them on and walked around at 6'7". It was wonderful. I was euphoric. A complete stranger saw me walking around in them and commented on how remarkably tall I was.

    But after about fifteen minutes my back was killing me. Al Pacino must have a high threshold for pain. Elevator shoes really screw up your posture and throw out your back.

    BTW even at 6'7" I still wasn't as tall a Comey.

    6'4" as a height has much to recommend it. Steve, me, Abe Lincoln and John Wayne. Not a bad group. Hollywood male movie stars all seem to wear lifts until they get to 6'4". Then they lie about their height. Dolph Lundgren was originally rejected for his Rocky movie because he was more that 6'4". Paul Bettany and Lee Pace both lie about their heights. 6'4" seems to be the maximum height a man can be in the movies unless he plays some creature or freak. You can play a normal man if you are 6'4" but no taller.

    Sometimes Steve plays a normal man, but poorly.

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  114. prosa123 says: • Website
    @Buck
    At 5'9", I'm the shortest in my immediate family by far. Only one other male cousin out of a dozen resides with me south of 6'. My short stature is probably somewhat genetic but I also cut weight as a High School wrestler in those growing years which makes me think I may have stunted my own growth. Wrestling is one sport which doesn't preference height. Wrestlers need fast-twitch muscles and lots of them in a compact frame. Speed, strength and stamina are more important than stature.

    I would be interested to know about other sports. Jockeys are tiny but the horse is the real athlete. Hockey?

    “I would be interested to know about other sports. Jockeys are tiny but the horse is the real athlete. Hockey?”

    Not height per se, but being long-limbed is a disadvantage in powerlifting because it increases the required range of motion for each lift.

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  115. @Wency
    "Aztec hotel room maid"

    Geez, man. Columba's no Melania, but she's a rather light-skinned Mestizo and was OK in her youth:

    http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/01/20/24D32C6E00000578-0-image-a-51_1421788791921.jpg

    A solid 6, maybe even a 7 on a good day. Main flaw is that jaw. A guy like Jeb would likely have done much worse if not for height + Bush name. She has also remained reasonably fit (though this always seems true of political wives).

    One curious thing is that all of their children seem to have about the same complexion as Columba, if not slightly darker. Google some of their family photos. Given Steve's earlier speculations about paternity, not to mention Jeb being more or less patient zero for the word "cuckservative", I'm surprised this hasn't been mentioned more in these circles.

    Like most indigenous/mestizo, her good days were before age 18 if not 16. She actually seems to have markers for dwarfism, whether hereditary or nutritional I don’t know. There’s also her dismal cognitive level.

    Again, for a tall, connected, and smart guy, he punched way, way below his class, and he has the kind of kids you’d expect from it.

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    • Replies: @Corvinus
    "Like most indigenous/mestizo, her good days were before age 18 if not 16."

    Of course, you as a supposed devout Orthodox run the risk of running afoul in the eyes of the Lord with such a patently false statement. Saint Dorotheos says "Those who desire to be saved do not pay attention to the faults of their neighbor, but always to their own and thus progress. Such was the man who saw his brother sinning and groaned, saying "Alas, he sinned today for sure it will be me tomorrow."

    Of course, we are hypocrites in some way, shape, or form at various times. It's just that you make it a career. Pro tip --> It is important for you not to lose the focus on your own sinfulness and your own need for repentance.

    "There’s also her dismal cognitive level."

    OK, so she may be not as bright as other people, but she definitely more astute than you can hope to be. Another new low, even for you.

    "Again, for a tall, connected, and smart guy, he punched way, way below his class, and he has the kind of kids you’d expect from it."

    No, Jeb actually got the knock out punch. Stable marriage, devoted wife, religious minded family, and kids to boot.

    You can't even get your own wife to stay home and raise your little ones.
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  116. Anonymous[180] • Disclaimer says:
    @Charles Pewitt
    Good Posture Is Important

    Good posture helps make short guys under 6 feet tall seem somewhat taller. It also helps to have a good shoulder to waist ratio to make the frame appear more elongated.

    This guy in the baseball cap has good posture:

    https://twitter.com/RedMarshNH/status/586976911357644801

    Good Posture Is Important

    Good posture helps make short guys under 6 feet tall seem somewhat taller. It also helps to have a good shoulder to waist ratio to make the frame appear more elongated.

    That is why guys who were in the marines usually seem a little taller than they actually are. An extraordinary amount of boot camp is just getting guys to stand up straight with good posture.

    Because the marines believes this makes them more powerful people and this has been (repeatedly) battle tested over decades, so there may be something to it.

    Anyhow, essentially the marines have been proponents of power posing long before the term was ever heard.

    I’m average height for US male, and it has been a perfect height for me. Never had the negative of being thought of as short in day to day life, but never had the plus of above average height. IMO, short is a much stronger negative than tall is a positive. Being average height, I always figured I had no dog in the height fight.

    The part that mystifies me is when I see some good looking tall guy that has endemic problems with women. They really do exist rather commonly in a way that women who are really physically attractive and can’t get dates do not exist except in movies and such.

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  117. L Woods says:
    @Joe Stalin
    So "don't like" "limits their options?"

    So if I only date pretty women that limits my options for dating?

    I know how this sounds, but…as a tall, facially-attractive male, I can’t really be satisfied with a woman that isn’t of comparable physical attractiveness, even though I realize that physical attractiveness in men and women isn’t equivalent in importance. I’m sort of the mirror image of high SES women who won’t date (or at least, marry) down. So in that sense, I can sort of empathize with the plight of tall women…I guess.

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  118. L Woods says:
    @AnotherDad

    You can compare height bias with bias against fat people, which gets a good deal of attention. Presumably because bias against fat people disproportionately affects women.
     
    And yet the bias against fat people is completely fair, because people chose to be fat.

    Yup.

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  119. prosa123 says: • Website
    @Anonymous
    LBJ was apparently very tall. He was also allegedly very well endowed and liked to boast of his dick size in casual conversation. Are these two things related?

    “LBJ was apparently very tall. He was also allegedly very well endowed and liked to boast of his dick size in casual conversation. Are these two things related?”

    Johnson was in poor health from his late 40′s onward. His selection as JFK’s running mate in 1960 was controversial in part due to concerns over his health even though he was barely 50 at the time. He was a feeble old man by 60 and finished off completely at 64.

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    • Replies: @Flip
    I read that LBJ had seven secretaries and was having sex with five of them.
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  120. L Woods says:
    @eric
    Attractiveness in general is associated with greater economic success, and obviously sexual success, and clearly a lot of that is genetic (especially the face). One could add extraversion and other somewhat genetic predispositions. We should definitely add them to the matrix of things the Handicapper General should be targeting.

    Extraversion is really everything in the degenerate, anarchic SMP of today. I just saw some short, zero of an Indian dude pull an attractive white woman the other day. Why? Because he was the first to open his mouth and the last to shut it. It’s a simple race to the bottom. QED.

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  121. @AndrewR
    Good comment but I would say the "body acceptance" movement has gotten a lot of traction. After my [rail-thin] female cousin berated me a few years ago for saying Adele was fat and gross, I've learned to be more careful about whom I express my true feelings to regarding obesity.

    I have nothing against fat men, but I despise fat women. Perfection for a woman is to be pleasant (i.e., speaking as seldom as possible, but when necessary in a cheerful manner) and look good.

    I have never been around a pleasant, attractive fat woman.

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  122. @Andrew M
    One of the problems that black men in racially-mixed countries face is that they’re the tallest kids in their school year, in an environment where rules are poorly enforced. They hit adulthood only to discover that they can’t keep intimidating smaller people with impunity. The habits they build up in childhood (using the implicit threat of violence to get what they want, without fear of intervention from the authorities) conflict with the reality of adulthood (the authorities will come to the defence of intimidated Starbucks employees).

    Better enforcement of good behavior in school might make a meaningful difference here.

    Send all those blacks to Holland, and they’d soon learn what it is like to be short.

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  123. Clyde says:

    Common sense will say that short and little people must live by their wits since overpowering – dominating rivals physically can be difficult unless you have serious martial arts training.

    Someone mentioned short stuff Joe Stalin. He lived – governed by his wits, so much so that millions of Russians died from this paranoia based politics. My opinion is that tall guys can opt to kick back and cruise along more easily. At least compared to the little Napoleons out there.

    My thoughts on the nut cases who who think they are Napoleon or Napoleonic? Do only short guys do this? Are there any crazed tall Napoleon wannabees? If our host Steve ever goes haywire nuts it will not be with Napoleonic delusions of grandeur. He will have to pick a personality from another menu.

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    • Replies: @Ivy
    One advantage of being tall is that people will move out of your way. Have good posture, walk with a sense of purpose and keep your gaze on some distant object, meaning on anything other than the rabble and darting random pinball objects that pass for humanity. If you've spent much time in New York or other big cities, you may have experienced that. Some call it sociopathy and others call it survival. Take time out to have a drink and keep perspective.
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  124. syonredux says:

    Off-topic,

    I loathe Kevin Williamson, but there’s some good stuff in this piece:

    In early March, I met up with Jeffrey Goldberg, the editor in chief of the Atlantic, at an event sponsored by the magazine at the South by Southwest conference in Austin. He had just hired me away from National Review, the venerable conservative magazine where I’d been a writer and editor for 10 years.

    “You know, the campaign to have me fired will begin 11 seconds after you announce that you’ve hired me,” I told him. He scoffed. “It won’t be that bad,” he said. “The Atlantic isn’t the New York Times. It isn’t high church for liberals.”

    My first piece appeared in the Atlantic on April 2. I was fired on April 5.

    Which brings us back to that event at South by Southwest, where the Atlantic was sponsoring a panel about marginalized points of view and diversity in journalism. The panelists, all Atlantic writers and editors, argued that the cultural and economic decks are stacked against feminists and advocates of minority interests. They made this argument under the prestigious, high-profile auspices of South by Southwest and their own magazine, hosted by a feminist group called the Female Quotient, which enjoys the patronage of Google, PepsiCo, AT&T, NBCUniversal, Facebook, UBS, JPMorgan Chase and Deloitte. We should all be so marginalized. If you want to know who actually has the power in our society and who is actually marginalized, ask which ideas get you sponsorships from Google and Pepsi and which get you fired.

    The event itself was revealing, not for the predictable banalities uttered on stage but for the offstage observations coming from the master of ceremonies: my new boss. Mr. Goldberg in private sometimes takes an amusingly ironic view of the pieties of P.C. culture. After giving the opening remarks, he joked about inflicting upon me the “wokiest” thing I’d ever suffered through and said that he himself was “insufficiently intersectional” for the event. He had a good laugh.

    The late Christopher Hitchens was another frequent contributor to the Atlantic. He was routinely denounced by people on the left for his harshly critical views of Islam. He complained of the war in Afghanistan that “the death toll is not nearly high enough,” described the Jewish scriptures as “evil and mad” and directed shameful vitriol at Mother Teresa. Hitchens routinely and gleefully gave occasion for offense—and he was one of the invaluable essayists of our time.

    “Yes,” Mr. Goldberg said when I reminded him of this precedent. “But Hitchens was in the family. You are not.”

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/when-the-twitter-mob-came-for-me-1524234850

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    • Replies: @YetAnotherAnon
    Hitchens' mother was Jewish, his father a stiff-upper-lip Church of England type, a naval officer.

    Peter takes after his Dad, Christopher after his Mum.
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  125. @Peter Johnson
    That seems very unfair to Robert Reich, who has managed to get a mainstream-published book, full to the brim with HBD-consistent science, through the HBD-censorship system. Even if he wants to claim otherwise, he is an HBD hero. So we should be nice to him; he is helping us to tear down the barriers to open scientific enquiry.

    Wrong Reich.

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  126. @Charles Pewitt
    Ribblesdale was a Lister to go by his real surname. Ribblesdale had a weak chin and a rat nose to go with his bulgy eyes.

    Ann Coulter has a more aristocratic bearing than Lister. Being that Ann Coulter has Kentucky and Tennessee ancestry, and she has American grit, and she is 6 feet beautiful tall, I bet Coulter would have taken Lister out in an Andrew Jackson style duel.

    Rat Nose Ribblesdale Lister had two sons get killed fighting for the British Empire. The internet ain't clear, but it might be Gallipoli or the Boer War or Somaliland where Rat Nose Ribblesdale Lister had his sons go belly up.

    The internet suggests that Rat Nose Ribblesdale Lister came from a family with an occupational name. Lister's people got this Ribblesdale name because they did this or that for somebody.

    General George Washington is a better representation of aristocratic bearing and looks than Rat Nose Ribblesdale Lister. George Washington had the honor to be both an Englishman and an American, Rat Nose Ribblesdale was a Limey bastard his whole life.

    The United States has Ann Coulter and George Washington, we don't need no Rat Nose Ribblesdale Lister Limey:

    https://twitter.com/THEANTHEMGIRL/status/985306766647943168

    True enough, but don’t ignore the fact that Washington was a real aristocrat, not only in his character and bearing, but also in terms of his ancestry.
    Uradel, the Germans call it.

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  127. So, our culture’s prejudice in favor of the tall is sort of obsolete.

    Yes, and in the same way that men’s prejudice in favor of attractive women is obsolete inasmuch as modern medicine can make most any gal fertile enough to produce one or two children. Good luck abolishing either of these “prejudices”.

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  128. @Chrisnonymous

    An outlier phenomenon I’ve noticed
     
    I know it's base to bring up, but I believe this phenomenon is related to the size of the generative organs. There are tall men whose said organs are not commensurately impressive. I believe these men's experiences of surprised and disappointed partners lead them to have less confidence than we would otherwise expect.

    Call girl Karrine Steffans reported that the 7’1″ Shaquille O’Neal was average … for a 5’4″ man.

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  129. Comey Is An Elongated McGillicuddy Muttonhead

    Comey Says The DEEP STATE Is Embedded In The Bureaucracy

    Comey Says The DEEP STATE Is Never Going Away

    Comey Says The DEEP STATE Is Here To Stay

    Comey Thinks He’s Invincible Now

    Comey Is A DEEP STATE Leprechaun Treasonite

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  130. @Jonathan Mason
    Fascinating about Lord Ribblesdale. I grew up just a few miles from the village of Gisburn, the ancestral home of the Lister (Ribblesdale) family.

    The first Lord Ribblesdale is reputed to have planted over 1 million oak trees in that part of Ribblesdale, presumably close to the River Ribble, as much of the territory is treeless higher ground.

    The title of Lord Ribblesdale died out in 1925 after the First World War as the two male heirs to the title were both killed in action, like Kipling's son.

    Gisburn, at the time I was growing up, was a center for training jumps race horses under the Dickinson family. Don't know if it still is.

    http://www.gisburn.org.uk/

    I lived in the general area of Gisburn (but in Yorkshire) in the 1980s, and am happy to admit that is a place I would move back to tomorrow if given the chance. England, and the English, at their very best.

    Ribblesdale was a Liberal, but not a liberal. He, and the titular head of his party after the death of Gladstone, the Duke of Devonshire, would be taken for “fascists” today. They were in fact much less friendly to the labouring classes than were the old-fashioned Tories like the Marquess of Salisbury. Noblesse oblige is a conservative idea, not a liberal one.

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  131. @Doug
    It's an interesting question. Why would people ever advocate for a traditionally low-status group? If group X is marginalized in society, it would seem associating ones self with group X could only lower social status. Even if you're from group X, you don't want to highlight it. Some humans are genuinely altruistic, but the vast majority are highly status conscious. So how did we ever end up with Civil Rights movement, women's equality and gay marriage?

    I think the answer is that there needs to be at least some subculture or social framing, where the oppressed group is relatively high status. We don't all agree on social ranking. A 22-year old Brooklyn hipster thinks that the winner of the World Barista Championship is a pretty big deal, but wouldn't give a second glance at a megachurch pastor. A 60 year old Accountant and father from Iowa is the reverse. Whenever you've had genuine social advancement of some marginalized group, it's because some sub-culture held that group in high esteem, and pushed their interests on the broader population.

    In 1963 blacks were considered cool, sexy and hip by the young, educated, urban and Northern. A lot of famous musicians, athletes and actors were black by that point. Women may be excluded from the board room and golf course, but at a bar or party an attractive woman is almost always the center of attention. Being gay is haram in backwoods Mississippi, but by the 1990s the Sex and the City crowd considered them fabulous, fashionable, and fascinating.

    Straight, white men pushed for blacks, women and gay rights because in their social circles they *want* to be associated with those groups. Having black, female and gay friends was a good thing at least for a large segment of the country.

    In contrast there's no significant sub-culture where short men are considered high status. Even if you're a short man, you don't want to advocate for your group, because it only highlights your own stature. Similarly we see, at best, lackluster social advocacy for the ugly, the infertile, the fat, and the socially awkward. Even though in 2018 all those groups are discriminated much more universally than any of the traditional oppressed categories.

    Even the disabled, a group which, by far, should elicit the most human compassion, play second fiddle. Mainstream social justice will usually only even mention "able-ism" in passing. My guess is that transphobia and Islamophobia receive 50 times the money and attention as able-ism.

    If group X is marginalized in society, it would seem associating ones self with group X could only lower social status.

    You don’t. Hence diversity for thee, but not for me. You raise your status by lowering the status of competitors by flooding them with these groups. You engage in tokenism to show you are a member of the high status group that can arrange to get a token (which are special because they are rare).

    You can’t go wrong working of the assumption humans desire power and the ability to inflict pain over others.

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  132. Anon[395] • Disclaimer says:

    O/T

    Companies Won’t Yield Profits For Wages, Despite Labor Shortage

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/audio/2018-04-19/companies-won-t-yield-profits-for-wages-despite-labor-shortage

    You can’t Ctrl+F for “immigration” since its audio, but the triple parentheses economist never mentions the I word.

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  133. Precious says:

    As someone whose height is in the Zuckerberg range, I can testify that short guys really have to pay a high tax in order to attract woman. In Zuckerberg’s case, he conned his way into billions of dollars. In my case, it was years of exercise and body-building. Even then I still can’t get women to notice me unless the weather is warm enough to give me the excuse to wear a tight, wife beater shirt.

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  134. Svigor says:

    OT:

    Irvine Man Charged With Anti-Semitic Hate Crimes After Being Turned In By Family Member

    This one is interesting. One might suppose that unless the jury is heavily Jewish, the prosecution might be hindered by the fact that the guy apparently didn’t commit any actual crimes. Which is the most salient thing I can find about this story that Drudge thought deserved national attention.

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    • Replies: @BB753
    A shame! In exogamic populations, you can't even trust your own family!
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  135. @Chrisnonymous
    I think it's quite clear why you're single. Sorry to say...

    I am pretty sure Intelligent Dasein has mentioned being married, perhaps even with children, if my memory serves me correctly (though a quick and dirty search of his comments in fact suggests my incipient senility…).

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  136. feminists have no problem with women choosing taller men over shorter men.
    They do have a problem with old patriarchal norms which resulted in situations where women sometimes had to choose a shorter guy over a taller guy, e.g. because the shorter guy was richer or because he somehow favored by the women’s father.

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  137. Bleuteaux says:
    @Anon
    Then why do so many women an inch or two shorter than their guys wear four-inch heels?

    Maybe more interesting, the women at work wearing four inch heals are almost all 5’6″ to 5’10″, which pushes them near or above six foot. I do not see this with women 5’4″ or below, who almost universally do not wear heels at my business.

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  138. @Charles Pewitt

    James Comey makes even the 6′ 2″ Donald Trump look small by comparison.

     

    Comey may have a half a foot on Trumpy, but Trumpy is built like a linebacker. Comey is all Celtic muttonhead like a David Byrne type. Trumpy in person is a fellow you wouldn't go out of your way to agitate.

    I’ve stood about fifteen feet from the president; I estimate he could prevail over most other men his age – I exclude superbly fit yet elderly outliers like Jack Lelane was, of course – in fight, for sure. Yeah, he’s got a paunch, but most every man his age does; indeed, most have a much larger one, and without his height and breadth at the shoulders. I’ve never been in Comey’s presence, but he strikes me as a pencil-pushing weasel of the sort likely to threaten to sue anyone who shoved him, rather than to shove back and ask “What’s the big idea!?”

    Is anyone familiar with training for the FBI and requirements for its people after whatever preliminary training occurs? Are those guys more like the military, where to become a fat-body or a weakling is to be pushed out for failing the minimal standards for physical fitness, or are they more like the vast majority of police, who so often become flabby and otherwise worthless after a few years on the force because no such standards are enforced? I’m genuinely curious.

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  139. @Intelligent Dasein
    What seems to be a preference for height is almost always an affectation that people employ in order to prepossess themselves of the favor of someone whom they desire for quite other purposes. "Height" is sort of a generic compliment you can pay someone, such as "strength" or "handsomeness" would be. For instance, if you were trying to move a couch into your new apartment and saw some guys milling about, a good way to solicit their help would be to say something like, "Would any of you strong young men be willing to lend me a hand here?" That should not be taken to construe that the men in question were particularly strong, or that raw strength was the most desired quality under any circumstance. It is more a case of recognizing that an adequate strength exists in the subjects and, wishing to take advantage of it for your own purposes, flattering it through affect compensation. This only works because most people would prefer to think of themselves as strong as opposed to weak, and will demand this "tribute" from you in exchange for their services. There is a complicated psychological transaction going on here, apart from which it is not clear that burliness confers any particular advantage per se. If the consideration where simply a material one (and if, as the evolutionists insist, life continuously developed itself along the fitness principle) then a trend towards increasing strength would be everywhere and always observed. There would be no accounting for the extreme disparity between the mouse and the elephant, and no way of explaining the variation even within a species. That the compliment is merely a relative one is amply demonstrated by the fact that girls will refer to a man they like as "tall" even when he is barely pushing 5'9". As everyone has felt, it is much easier to give convincing displays of strength when that strength is appreciated and wanted---a subject meriting further examination.

    The elephant has been winnowed by natural selection to fit his niche ever more successfully, and the mouse to fit his. Change the particularities of that niche slowly, and the species will adapt (rather, it will be adapted by natural selection, which is all that survival of the fittest actually means), leading to species variation. Change it too quickly however and the species will die out.
    Alas, this is happening with the elephant; alas, it is not happening with the mouse.

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  140. Svigor says:

    OT:

    Justice Department Watchdog Probes Comey Memos Over Classified Information

    Mr. Comey has said he considered the memos personal rather than government documents. He has told Congress that he wrote them and authorized their release to the media “as a private citizen.”

    Comey needs to go back and read the law. The one in question is very broad, includes any “work product,” i.e., stuff dummies write at home about stuff they learned on the clock working at the FBI.

    If Mopey had said something more like “yes, it was technically illegal, but I figure the DoJ won’t apply the hostile legal standards to me, a Swamp Critter in good standing, that it applies to its political enemies,” he’d have a point.

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  141. I’m 5 feet 7 on a good day. But as a white male born in 1954, I never concerned myself with societal bias against short guys. I could learn calculus, and physics was and is pretty intuitive for me, so I just got on with things. Never had any trouble.

    Besides, Confucius say: “Short guy on dance floor get bust in face.” Which ain’t half bad.

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    • Replies: @L Woods
    “Short...studied physics...never had any trouble.” Oh, to come of age in the pre-runaway hypergamy era. Unimaginable today.
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  142. Never mind Sargent. In El Greco’s world, everybody was elongated.

    (May have been a vision problem)

    He would have made a good fashion designer.

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  143. @MikeatMikedotMike
    I am 6' 4" and while in the Marine Corps I spent 14 months of my life living on 2 Naval vessels. By the end of it I might as well have been the the Hunchback of Notre Dame because banging one's head on every low handing hatchway, pipe, bracket, or duct produces that adaptation.

    I would also add toilets, snow shovels, commercial vehicle day cabs, and pants to your list of discrimination.

    With due respect, you– like anyone else similarly tall – are a damned fool for joining the Marine Corps of the United States Navy – whose entire raison d’etre is—ahem—marine (specifically, amphibious) warfare, and whose personnel are therefore highly likely (indeed, all but certainly, after a few years) bound to spend time aboard a ship (probably an LHD or LHA). You should have joined the army (although it’s possible that, exhibiting the same good sense and foresight you did by joining the marines, you’d have sought to be assigned to the crew of a tank…).

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    • Replies: @MikeatMikedotMike
    LOL - thank you for that perspective and insight. I was not so fortunate to be on a helo-carrier as you mention, I was on the USS Ogden and USS Cleveland, LPD's 5 and 8, respectively.

    And it's funny you should mention - I actually signed up for tanks - but since I am partially colorblind, got dumped into AAV's. But that turned out to be a blessing when in the field, because I always had a dry warm place to sleep when the grunts and tankers were sleeping in the dirt.
    , @I, Libertine
    All statements addressed to another that begin with the phrase "with all due respect" invariably show none.
    , @I, Libertine
    I admit that I took your comment literally, as I know realize it was meant to be humorous. Sorry.

    But my reply was directed at the comment, particularly the cliché "with all due respect," a pet peeve for me, as irritating to as clichés such as "a pet peeve" are to others. It was not directed at person making it.

    So it seem seems misunderstood each other. But - and I could be wrong here, too - I didn't perceive the "purple hair" portion of your sur-reply to be good-natured.

    P.S. I, too, am a tall veteran (Army), left with a bad back as a consequence.

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  144. @Charles Pewitt

    Self-satisfaction with height peaks at 5’9″ for women and 6’3″ for men.

     

    I'm satisfied that I am taller than that midget Limey Mick Jagger. This filthy multi-millionaire Limey Mick Jagger ain't no 5 feet 10 inches tall. I bet he's 5 feet seven inches if he's lucky. And Jagger is slightly built to boot.

    I know 3 things about money-grubber Mick Jagger:

    1) Jagger is obsessed with real estate prices, like a good middle class Limey striver;

    3) Jagger is not 5 feet 10 inches tall;

    3) Jagger's got the onions to wear football tights and dance around in a cherry picker bucket -- that's the kind of onions that will land you Jerry Hall in her prime. Got to give Jagger credit for that. Brian Ferry must have had enough of the Texas charms of Jerry Hall, he never clobbered that Jagger for stealing away Hall.

    Jerry Hall and Rupert Murdoch -- the imperial rot continues.

    Mr Jagger also sampled Carla Bruni in her prime, long before M. Sarkozy cast an eye on her.

    Jagger is an intelligent chap who’s fathered 8 children. He’s 74 and his dad died at 93, so he has time for more. On the other hand, Paul Weller of The Jam and Style Council also has 8, and he’s “only” 59!

    Tangentially on topic, this tweet shows interracial marriages in the US. It looks like either Yellow Fever is a thing or White Fever is. For every Oriental ethnicity, more women than men marry whites. More Japanese and Filipino women marry white men than they marry men of their own race. 90% of white women who marry choose a white spouse.

    Of course this says nothing about the couples who aren’t married.

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    • Replies: @Anonymous
    That reminds me, whatever happened to the excellent www.xsteve.com website? It was IIRC a fan page devoted to our own respected host.
    , @Serge Kawalski
    Just for the record, I used to be friends with a relative of Mick Jagger and he told me that Jagger was of jewish descent.
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  145. @syonredux
    Off-topic,

    I loathe Kevin Williamson, but there's some good stuff in this piece:

    In early March, I met up with Jeffrey Goldberg, the editor in chief of the Atlantic, at an event sponsored by the magazine at the South by Southwest conference in Austin. He had just hired me away from National Review, the venerable conservative magazine where I’d been a writer and editor for 10 years.

    “You know, the campaign to have me fired will begin 11 seconds after you announce that you’ve hired me,” I told him. He scoffed. “It won’t be that bad,” he said. “The Atlantic isn’t the New York Times. It isn’t high church for liberals.”

    My first piece appeared in the Atlantic on April 2. I was fired on April 5.
     

    Which brings us back to that event at South by Southwest, where the Atlantic was sponsoring a panel about marginalized points of view and diversity in journalism. The panelists, all Atlantic writers and editors, argued that the cultural and economic decks are stacked against feminists and advocates of minority interests. They made this argument under the prestigious, high-profile auspices of South by Southwest and their own magazine, hosted by a feminist group called the Female Quotient, which enjoys the patronage of Google, PepsiCo, AT&T, NBCUniversal, Facebook, UBS, JPMorgan Chase and Deloitte. We should all be so marginalized. If you want to know who actually has the power in our society and who is actually marginalized, ask which ideas get you sponsorships from Google and Pepsi and which get you fired.
     

    The event itself was revealing, not for the predictable banalities uttered on stage but for the offstage observations coming from the master of ceremonies: my new boss. Mr. Goldberg in private sometimes takes an amusingly ironic view of the pieties of P.C. culture. After giving the opening remarks, he joked about inflicting upon me the “wokiest” thing I’d ever suffered through and said that he himself was “insufficiently intersectional” for the event. He had a good laugh.

     


    The late Christopher Hitchens was another frequent contributor to the Atlantic. He was routinely denounced by people on the left for his harshly critical views of Islam. He complained of the war in Afghanistan that “the death toll is not nearly high enough,” described the Jewish scriptures as “evil and mad” and directed shameful vitriol at Mother Teresa. Hitchens routinely and gleefully gave occasion for offense—and he was one of the invaluable essayists of our time.
     

    “Yes,” Mr. Goldberg said when I reminded him of this precedent. “But Hitchens was in the family. You are not.”
     
    https://www.wsj.com/articles/when-the-twitter-mob-came-for-me-1524234850

    Hitchens’ mother was Jewish, his father a stiff-upper-lip Church of England type, a naval officer.

    Peter takes after his Dad, Christopher after his Mum.

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    • Replies: @Mishra
    Wow, that explains a lot, and I never knew. Thanks
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  146. Svigor says:

    “A person who sees moral equivalence in Charlottesville, who talks about and treats women like they’re pieces of meat, who lies constantly about matters big and small and insists the American people believe it, that person’s not fit to be president of the United States, on moral grounds,” Mr. Comey told ABC News this month.

    Mopey strikes again. What a gigantic cuck he is. All the violence is coming from the left (Comey is FBI and KNOWS THIS PERFECTLY WELL), the kind of women who suck up to Trump are pieces of meat, and DC is one big Swamp full of like Swamp Critters like Comey.

    I did love to hear Mopey talk (way back when he quit) about how his conversations with his boss made his tummy hurt, though; so he’s not all bad.

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  147. Svigor says:

    Sorry, meant finally got fired for being the biggest weasel in DC, not “quit.”

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  148. Svigor says:

    Never mind Sargent. In El Greco’s world, everybody was elongated.

    (May have been a vision problem)

    Now I know where Burne Hogarth got his style.

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  149. Flip says:
    @prosa123
    "LBJ was apparently very tall. He was also allegedly very well endowed and liked to boast of his dick size in casual conversation. Are these two things related?"

    Johnson was in poor health from his late 40's onward. His selection as JFK's running mate in 1960 was controversial in part due to concerns over his health even though he was barely 50 at the time. He was a feeble old man by 60 and finished off completely at 64.

    I read that LBJ had seven secretaries and was having sex with five of them.

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  150. Anonymous[119] • Disclaimer says:

    Within reason – say above 5-7 or so – women seem to have a greater preference for physical attractiveness over height. Thinking back to my early 20′s, guys that were good looking but 5-7 to 5-9 got more women, and more attractive women, than guys that were 6-2 and ugly. So, going by revealed preferences, women seem to place a greater preference on physical attractiveness. However, I’ve seen no studies comparing the preference between these two traits. Also, I’m not sure what the preference is for men assessing other men (eg job interviews). I do recall there are studies showing both height and physical attractiveness provide an advantage in job interviews, though I’d be interested in which trait has a stronger effect.

    There seems to be a point of diminishing returns with height as well. Going by stated preferences only, most women I’ve talked to say their ideal height is 6-1 to 6-2. I’ve never heard a women say that she prefers guys that are 6-5. In my early 20′s I occasionally hit the bars with two friends that were 6-5 and 6-8, and they reported the same thing: women like tall, but not too tall. They both felt their height was a slight disadvantage.

    Of course, for women power and status trumps all of these things. For female preference, I propose: power and status > good looks > height (unless a guy is below the 15% or so)

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  151. Anonymous[132] • Disclaimer says:
    @Big Bill

    As I heard one woman put it, she wouldn’t have sex with someone she felt she could hold in her lap.
     
    I find that very hard to believe. Mr. Hitachi is only a foot tall and lots of women swear by his gentle ministrations.

    Wasn’t there a ‘Carlos Hathitachi’ on here a while back?

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  152. J.Ross says: • Website

    OT Amy Schumer unites Rotten Tomatoes critics and fans
    It has often been observed that the scoring of movies at Rotten Tomatoes by professional critics has an inverse relationship with scoring by audiences. This is not the case with Amy Schumer’s new film I Feel Pretty, (critics 36%, humans 31%).

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    • Replies: @Mishra
    Hard to believe that some dude actually married that sad cabbage patch doll. She's a perfect example of that peculiar mix of smug and repulsive that characterizes so many social-grievance types. And privileged to boot, natch.
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  153. @MikeatMikedotMike
    I am 6' 4" and while in the Marine Corps I spent 14 months of my life living on 2 Naval vessels. By the end of it I might as well have been the the Hunchback of Notre Dame because banging one's head on every low handing hatchway, pipe, bracket, or duct produces that adaptation.

    I would also add toilets, snow shovels, commercial vehicle day cabs, and pants to your list of discrimination.

    add toilets, snow shovels, commercial vehicle day cabs, and pants to your list of discrimination.

    Shoes, shirts, coats, sports cars, motorcycles, bicycles, old houses, etc…

    I know a medically disabled airline pilot with permanent neck deformity from hunching in cockpits.

    And keep in mind that a person of disadvantageous height is a target of violence from every wannabe tough guy looking to impress.

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    • Replies: @Mishra
    Even adjustable (telescoping) steering wheels in cars, which are no longer within comfortable reach when the seat is adjusted for longer legs....because short people could end up too close to wheel for airbag safety, if they misadjusted the wheel.
    , @MikeatMikedotMike
    You're absolutely right about the short man's complex. They do go looking for the tall one's to start trouble with, especially after 1 and a half beers.
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  154. Dave Pinsen says: • Website
    @Wency
    "Aztec hotel room maid"

    Geez, man. Columba's no Melania, but she's a rather light-skinned Mestizo and was OK in her youth:

    http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/01/20/24D32C6E00000578-0-image-a-51_1421788791921.jpg

    A solid 6, maybe even a 7 on a good day. Main flaw is that jaw. A guy like Jeb would likely have done much worse if not for height + Bush name. She has also remained reasonably fit (though this always seems true of political wives).

    One curious thing is that all of their children seem to have about the same complexion as Columba, if not slightly darker. Google some of their family photos. Given Steve's earlier speculations about paternity, not to mention Jeb being more or less patient zero for the word "cuckservative", I'm surprised this hasn't been mentioned more in these circles.

    There’s no way Jeb isn’t George P. Bush’s father. Look at that face. He’s darker than his mother probably because he wants to look more Latino so he tans.

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  155. The old argument that El Greco was astigmatic is flawed. It takes for granted that he painted what he saw, precisely as he saw it. But if he did, then the painting which resulted would look as normal to us who are not astigmatic as the people he painted did to the normally sighted of his own day.
    In other words, and to simplify, if his astigmatism led him to see a six foot man as an elongated eight footer, then his painted figure would need to be six feet tall, if he was to see it as eight.

    The real answer as to why he painted as he did is that he was an original, and a genius to boot. Once again the limited scientific mind flounders in the face of creative intellect.

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    • Replies: @Buzz Mohawk
    You're right. That makes perfect sense.

    It is interesting that there is a visual preference for the elongated human form in general, as in fashion art and runway models, even to the point of exaggeration.
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  156. Height discrimination is real but it has zero value as a political weapon. Hence, zero attention or concern.

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  157. J.Ross says: • Website

    OT — Has Raj Chetty been told? The Aussies have an Orania, when do we get one? We’ll count Jews and North-East Asians as white in the first one to make it easier.
    >Leinster, Australia
    >Mining town run by BHP
    >Free housing, excellent amenities
    >No crime
    >Residents must demonstrate 100% European ancestry

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5628175/The-leafy-outback-town-job-NO-crime.html

    Article does not explain how they verify whiteness but I’m guessing it’s “don’t snort gasoline fumes and you’re good.” Be interesting if they did a genetic test in-house.

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  158. Tony says:
    @Charles Pewitt

    Self-satisfaction with height peaks at 5’9″ for women and 6’3″ for men.

     

    I'm satisfied that I am taller than that midget Limey Mick Jagger. This filthy multi-millionaire Limey Mick Jagger ain't no 5 feet 10 inches tall. I bet he's 5 feet seven inches if he's lucky. And Jagger is slightly built to boot.

    I know 3 things about money-grubber Mick Jagger:

    1) Jagger is obsessed with real estate prices, like a good middle class Limey striver;

    3) Jagger is not 5 feet 10 inches tall;

    3) Jagger's got the onions to wear football tights and dance around in a cherry picker bucket -- that's the kind of onions that will land you Jerry Hall in her prime. Got to give Jagger credit for that. Brian Ferry must have had enough of the Texas charms of Jerry Hall, he never clobbered that Jagger for stealing away Hall.

    Jerry Hall and Rupert Murdoch -- the imperial rot continues.

    Mick Jagger was known to have a small schween. Maybe he really was a mick.

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    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Keith Richards stated that Jagger had a 'tiny todger' but also said he had 'enormous balls' in the same sentence.


    The comments reference an ongoing feud between Jagger and longtime bandmate Keith Richards, after Richards wrote in his 2010 memoir Life that Mick's onetime lover Marianne Faithfull "had no fun with his tiny todger ... I know he's got an enormous pair of balls -- but it doesn't quite fill the gap."

    The two rock titans have ended their spat, with Richards admitting to Rolling Stone in May that "some parts of [the book], and some of the publicity, really offended Mick and I regret that." Rehearsals are currently underway for the Stones' 50th anniversary tour, set to debut in 2013.
     
    Marianne Faithfull and Jerry Hall defended Jagger's equipment in comments at around that time.

    Whatever the size of it, Jagger's member has certainly served its purpose. He's known to have fathered eight children by five women and to have had sex with a pretty impressive roster of other famous women on the side.
    , @YetAnotherAnon
    "Maybe he really was a mick."

    Jagger is a German name, from jaeger - a hunter. It was also a type of small pack horse used by travelling pedlars in the days before good roads - there are a few 'Jagger Lanes" in northern England.

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  159. @J.Ross
    I can't prove this and my shortness is ridiculous so I'm very biased, but I think that what I would call "precautionary respect" (ie, giving a short or foreign guy the benefit of the doubt, not unconsciously assuming that a short coworker is factually wrong until he argues his case separately and completely) is tied to literacy since literacy makes you accept that looks aren't everything. Neil Postman had a similar idea about sexual morality (literacy enables more abstract thinking and the penalizing of some forms of impulse gratification: illiterate or minimally literate people don't see what's wrong). This would lead us to expect that TV, Facebook and a decline in reading have made pointedly disrespecting short people noticeably worse within about one lifetime. And you can't complain about it because a short man complaining about being short is hilarious and not serious, no matter the money involved. This is exacerbated by the current liberalization of female sexuality as its own justification coupled with near monopolization of hiring -- in other words, right now is the maximum leeway an underqualified but tall man has to get a job, and a time period of widespread deep literacy like the late Victorian era or the early nineteen sixties would be low points. It's proof of the phoniness of the ad-hoc ultra-sensitivity of the pinkhairs, they are very quick to laugh at certain things. I've been in conversations where a taller person "corrects" me with the answer I had just given.

    I’ve been in conversations where a taller person “corrects” me with the answer I had just given.

    Speak up from down there if you want us grownups to hear you!

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    • Replies: @J.Ross
    The anger, it grows, even as my spinal column cannot.
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  160. @Buck
    At 5'9", I'm the shortest in my immediate family by far. Only one other male cousin out of a dozen resides with me south of 6'. My short stature is probably somewhat genetic but I also cut weight as a High School wrestler in those growing years which makes me think I may have stunted my own growth. Wrestling is one sport which doesn't preference height. Wrestlers need fast-twitch muscles and lots of them in a compact frame. Speed, strength and stamina are more important than stature.

    I would be interested to know about other sports. Jockeys are tiny but the horse is the real athlete. Hockey?

    I would be interested to know about other sports. Jockeys are tiny but the horse is the real athlete. Hockey?

    Most is just common sense physics isn’t it? Motorsports are largely a function of power/weight. Taller folk are heavier so you’ll see more short guys as racing car or motorcycle drivers/riders. Hockey, skiing, or soccer are dependent on fast change in direction and favor shorter lighter people except in positions such as goalkeeper where blocking maximum space is of value.

    Are there any good counterintuitive examples? Ping pong or tennis where reach might be of higher value in the confines of the game than ability to change direction more quickly?

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    • Replies: @Brutusale
    Pitchers in baseball, especially starters, tend to be taller. Part of Randy Johnson's success was that at 6'10" it seemed like he was releasing the ball from about 10' away.

    At the other end of the tape measure, I imagine a 6-foot gymnast is a serious outlier.

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  161. @Tiny Duck
    I would just like to point out that you guys are falling to pieces:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pCv2DYImxec

    Watch all this guys videos

    He shows how messed up you people are

    Tiny Duck and the Antifa video blogger he cites … are Right

    this time

    You should pay attention.

    we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes, and our sacred Honor

    …said no white nationalist, ever

    And it’s never going to happen.

    Now – the Antifa videoblogger is not right, but interesting, to refer to certain civil nationalists as “cucks”. Interesting because taken together with the rest of his video it betrays the sort of nihilism that’s a mirror image of the nihilism he opposes.

    But he’s correctly diagnosing that the Alt-right isn’t keeping it together, and furthermore: can’t

    Racial nationalism: works nowhere
    Not in China – where it isn’t a race, it’s an ethnicity – with a culture: the Han. Not in Korea or Japan, which are also ethnicities, with unifying cultures.
    Not in Israel – which has no less than three ethnicities unified by a common religion. (please re-read that sentence to yourself 3-5 times, those of you who seek some sort of moral equivalence with the Israeli/Zionist enterprise).
    Not in Africa.

    It works nowhere.
    It periodically rises up into a conflagration under an alphamale like in Nazi Germany – but it inevitably destroys itself or is eaten from the outside.

    It’s cyclical rise is only sustained by the solipsistic projections of its adherents that if only they were in charge then it would all work out.

    You have no program of initiation, no system of competence hierarchy and consensus leadership, no unifying principle or culture, and no reason to refrain from throwing one another off the bus because you have no common commitment.

    You need a new formula for unity and a new target for manifestation.

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  162. sabril says:
    @Charles Pewitt

    Attractiveness explains much about shorter leading men.

     

    Vulnerability captured by the camera along with good looks and the audience's desire to root for the underdog.

    My heart was filled with joy when I saw that I was taller and better built than Viggo Mortensen. Mortensen played a great hero in those Lord of The Rings movies. The human heart finds joy in odd places, inexplicably. Viggo Mortensen is tiny, and he is more pretty than handsome. But, the camera picks up the scrappy charisma of Mortensen and the audience roots for him.

    I would guess a lot of it is that short people tend to be better coordinated than tall people. Good coordination is probably helpful for acting.

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  163. @Mike Zwick
    Billy Barty had a normal sized wife.

    Billy Barty had a normal sized wife.

    Famous dwarves have a way with women. Geto Boy dwarf/cyclops Bushwick Bill describes a representative tryst with “two of the finest bitches around” in this tawdry urban tale: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H-emJzKSH6k

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  164. sabril says:
    @Seamus Day
    Bill Gates = 5'10

    Jeff Bezos = 5'8

    Warren Buffett = 5'10

    Mark Zuckerberg = 5'7.5

    Larry Ellison = 6'3

    David Koch = 6'5

    Michael Bloomberg = 5'8

    Larry Page = 5'11

    Sergey Brin = 5'8

    Kevin Systrom = 6'5

    Paul Allen = 5'10

    Sean Parker = 5'10

    Elon Musk = 6'2

    Steve Ballmer = 6'5

    The average height of an American billionaire is 5’11.5” or over 2” taller than the average American male.

    Either that or billionaire men are like most guys in that they exaggerate by an inch or two when they self-report their heights.

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  165. Anonym says:
    @Mishra
    Tall people all end up with back trouble from a lifetime of dealing with a world designed for short people. Every one of whom resents you because you make an extra $79 a month and pull in a higher class of babe. It's not worth it.

    Lawn mowers, pool tables, church pews, airline seats, sports cars, kitchen counters, stairs, chairs, garden rakes, gym equipment, office furniture, one size fits all, huh.

    The higher class of babe is totally worth it IMO. Or the greater frequency of average class babe.

    I am not sure if the above is based on stated height or real height. Most guys add an inch or two to their height. But 6’2 is about optimal.

    A shoe with a bit of a heel is the male equivalent of the silicone bra insert.

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  166. @Buck
    "With a face like that?"

    I know. How soon we forget. Maybe it would have gotten more attention if Fiorina had actually been one of the leading candidates, as Rubio (somehow) was.

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  167. Anonym says:
    @AndrewR
    Are you trolling me? You are talking about David Reich. I was talking about Robert Reich.

    I bet Robert Reich was called “Reach” in school.

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  168. @The Z Blog
    Perhaps we should hire a Handicapper General who will force the tall to stoop or maybe remove a few of the vertebrae to make them shorter. Of course, it would mean stretching the short, which would be amusing. Not so much for midgets, but perhaps they would be declared pets, like pygmies are for Bantus.

    We can't let our inequality divide us!

    Perhaps we should hire a Handicapper General who will force the tall to stoop or maybe remove a few of the vertebrae to make them shorter. Of course, it would mean stretching the short, which would be amusing.

    The venerable and learned negros of ancient Greece were ahead of us on this innovation, like so many others: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Procrustes

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  169. Laggard says:

    I’m not aware of any link between height and cancer risk. Do the Dutch have a greater risk of cancer? I don’t know but it doesn’t seem to be top of mind.

    I would have thought that reaching full height potential would suggest lowered risk of harmful mutations.

    My unscientific sense of cancer risk tends towards toxic load through lifestyle (pollution, chemicals, pesticides, plastics, cosmetics, food supply contamination), insufficient antioxidants through diet (toxin-cleansing fresh, uncontaminated leafy greens, fibre etc.), insufficient exercise, insufficient sleep etc. Basically running your body down through stress and failing to take care of yourself. If your body is larger, you need more fuel, and ingest more toxins. Then again, if it were that simple, the findings would have borne it out.

    They will struggle to cut down the tall, over-privileged types without risking also levelling tall underprivileged pets (e.g. NBA).

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  170. @Chrisnonymous
    I think it's quite clear why you're single. Sorry to say...

    I think it’s quite clear why you’re single. Sorry to say…

    1. I am not single. I am unmarried, but that’s an entirely different thing. I am not single in the sense that I am devoid of company.

    2. It is “quite clear” that you have absolutely nothing substantive to add, that you cannot argue with any of my points, and that you really don’t even understand the subject at hand. If you could say better you would have done so.

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  171. @Seamus Day
    Bill Gates = 5'10

    Jeff Bezos = 5'8

    Warren Buffett = 5'10

    Mark Zuckerberg = 5'7.5

    Larry Ellison = 6'3

    David Koch = 6'5

    Michael Bloomberg = 5'8

    Larry Page = 5'11

    Sergey Brin = 5'8

    Kevin Systrom = 6'5

    Paul Allen = 5'10

    Sean Parker = 5'10

    Elon Musk = 6'2

    Steve Ballmer = 6'5

    The average height of an American billionaire is 5’11.5” or over 2” taller than the average American male.

    Okay, but they are white, and the white average is 5’10. So, they average only 1.5″ above the white average which puts the average at the 60%ile. So, a little taller on average.

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  172. Anonym says:
    @Wency
    "Aztec hotel room maid"

    Geez, man. Columba's no Melania, but she's a rather light-skinned Mestizo and was OK in her youth:

    http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/01/20/24D32C6E00000578-0-image-a-51_1421788791921.jpg

    A solid 6, maybe even a 7 on a good day. Main flaw is that jaw. A guy like Jeb would likely have done much worse if not for height + Bush name. She has also remained reasonably fit (though this always seems true of political wives).

    One curious thing is that all of their children seem to have about the same complexion as Columba, if not slightly darker. Google some of their family photos. Given Steve's earlier speculations about paternity, not to mention Jeb being more or less patient zero for the word "cuckservative", I'm surprised this hasn't been mentioned more in these circles.

    Jeb’s wife has a threehead with intellect to match.

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  173. J1234 says:

    Why Is There So Little Concern About Height Prejudice?

    Blacks are often tall.

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    • Replies: @Joe Schmoe
    They are also often short due to a flatter height distribution curve. The black height average is very slightly lower than the white average, pretty much negligible difference, but whites are more likely to be closer to the average.
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  174. Anonym says:
    @SimpleSong
    I don't have a dog in this fight, being literally exactly average height for males in the US, but I have observed:

    -In fields that require in-person persuasion appearance counts a lot, and height is one of those things that counts. Sales for example is a tall man's game, as is politics.

    -It's hard to disentangle this, but I think all things being equal shorter people seem to live longer and healthier. Now if you are shorter because of nutritional deficiencies as a child or some genetic syndrome that is different, but if you are a normal healthy person, everything else equal shorter will live longer. The Japanese live a long long time. Women live longer than men. Small dogs live longer than big dogs. The main cause of cell mutation is errors during replication so the bigger you are, the more mutations you accumulate.

    -In roles that require a lot of accumulated knowledge I've always noticed that short people seem to have a slight edge. For example the really good physicians I've worked with were often shorter and my engineer friends have also had this observation about really sharp technical people. I think that there is a realization (maybe conscious, maybe not) that the tables are tilted against them for managerial and sales roles. So they really work to develop their knowledge and skill base, which is something that can be more concretely measured.

    -Tall men do much better with women, but once they are married it seems like short men are less likely to divorce and also seem to produce more children.

    I guess when you are young it's best to be tall but when you are old, best to be short.

    -In fields that require in-person persuasion appearance counts a lot, and height is one of those things that counts. Sales for example is a tall man’s game, as is politics.

    In sales I would never bet against a short Jew. Confident, charismatic people who can think very quickly on their feet will do well at sales. Most actors would do very well at sales, whether Danny De Vito or Liam Neeson.

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  175. @Mike Zwick
    Billy Barty had a normal sized wife.

    Big deal; Mick Jagger had several physically attractive ones. We all know being short, ugly, or any number of other things takes a back seat to the single most important physical characteristic of all in human males: the thickness of the wallet.

    I endorse the points made also about the insane expectations of females (but I repeat myself) about males. There are reams of empirical evidence about the phenomenon, but perhaps the most concise and telling datum is that women using online dating services consistently rate around eighty per cent of all males they encounter as “below average” in appearance, giving us mathematics straight out of Lake Woebegone…. Only just imagine the outcry if men on such sites routinely and casually stated no date would be considered with any woman lacking at least a DD chest. I expect if it became too common the SJWs would demand action by the service; i should not be surprised if many such services to already quietly censure or remove such material from the postings of men cheeky enough to express such preferences.

    In my own days mucking about with such services, I anecdotally found the majority of women routinely demanded – this was no mere preference; it was stated as a threshold requirement – that any suitor be at least six feet tall to be considered for a date (a mere date – not marriage!). Needless to say, this again represents a very strange understanding of statistics, since such women – the over-wehelming majority hardly remarkable enough themselves to be making demands*) have thereby excluded from consideration the vast majority of men.

    These kinds of things are probably well understood by most readers of this forum, so I may’ve already belaboured the point, but such phenomena are also involved with the increasingly tolerated disaster (from the perspective of maintaining orderly and productive society) of a small set of men monopolising a larger set of women, serially as the women wait their turns for someone “good enough” for them or simultaneously via dating that is not exclusive, as average Joes are left to date Rosy Palms. The phenomenon has always occurred and always will to some extent, but it has been exacerbated exponentially by the wholesale rejection of chastity outside marriage and by permissive divorce, not only without any shame or infamy suffered by either party, but indeed with fabulous cash and prizes for nearly every party of the female part.

    *I expect Hayden Panettiere or Kat Dennings could demand suitors be at least seven feet tall and still find themselves spoiled for choice by the numbers of eager beaus, but these gals online were not in the same league, nor even the same sport….

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    • Replies: @sabril
    I believe one of the major online dating sites set things up to make it very easy to automatically filter profiles based on height but no other characteristic. They had some convoluted explanation for it, but it seemed pretty obvious that the real aim was to pander to women.

    As far as your hypothetical outrage scenario goes, there is a non-hypothetical example since many men refuse to date girls who are fat. But it's unusual to see it spelled out on many dating profiles since men are relentlessly shamed for preferring thin partners. I remember a meme floating around to the effect that men's biggest fear in internet dating is that their date will turn out to be fat while women's is that their date will turn out to be a rapist. Probably that's not even true (women probably worry that the man will turn out to be short) but even if it were, the aim of the meme is to invalidate and trivialize men's legitimate concerns.

    But anyway, I think that all of this confirms my hypothesis about heightism. Since the dawn of the human species, people have been acutely aware that due to biology a tribe's male population is -- for the most part -- expendable while the female population is not. That the majority of men are genetic dead ends and ultimately a waste of resources. So that a man must prove himself to have value while women area automatically valued. The upshot of this is that a man who fails to prove himself gets little sympathy.
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  176. Coemgen says:

    Frontlashing for James Comey?

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  177. J.Ross says: • Website

    OT Swedish crime prevention group refuses to gather data on criminals; newspaper Expressen does and finds that gang rapists are either immigrants or the children of immigrants.

    http://www.breitbart.com/london/2018/03/21/swedish-msm-report-majority-gang-rapists-migrant-background-full-year-breitbart-london-broke-story/

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  178. Michelle says:

    I love, love, love short guys. I lived on a horse breeding ranch when I was a little girl and the jockeys were the epitome of manhood to me. Tough guys, strong and brave. That, and Davy Jones from the Monkeys. I used to place personal ads on Craigslist asking specifically for short guys. I had a few tall lovers and was just not very attracted to them. With a short guy, when we’re nose to nose his toes is in and when we’re toes to toes his nose is in. Viva los short guys!!!

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  179. @Tyrion 2
    Were you taller you would realise that women of all ages would, on meeting a tall man, remark upon their height and then remark upon it again and again in much the same way that a cartoonish troglodyte of a man might remark upon a woman's ample breasts.

    It is a sexual characteristic in much the same way. When I point this out to #metoo type women, they go quiet very fast.

    Were you taller…

    Troglodytism is just about your intellectual speed, but I’m 6’2″ in my bare feet, so…try again.

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    • Replies: @Tyrion 2
    What's the explanation then? Your bearing, your personality?
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  180. prosa123 says: • Website

    One advantage of being average height (5’10″) is that I hardly ever think about height at all. It just isn’t a factor. I seldom notice other peoples’ heights unless they are very unusually tall or short.

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  181. @Joe Stalin
    So "don't like" "limits their options?"

    So if I only date pretty women that limits my options for dating?

    So if I only date pretty women that limits my options for dating?

    Since not all women are pretty: Yes; yes it does. This conclusion follows from such rudimentary logic most children can easily understand it. (I shan’t even bother with presenting the formal proof.)

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    • Replies: @Joe Stalin
    Obviously not a believer in "beauty is in the eye of the beholder," I'm afraid.
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  182. Shaq says:
    @D. K.
    I had a friend at Purdue who was the daughter of an Engineering professor who was originally from England. The daughter was about 6'1" tall and kept her own horse at the Purdue stables. (The only time that I ever have been on a horse was with her.) The father and daughter's surname was Lister.
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  183. Marty says:
    @Pat Boyle
    I used to comment on Steve's original blog under the nom de guerre of Albertosaurus. I remember a long series of posts back and forth about being 6'4". We were both that height back then. I lost a inch or more when I fell off the cliff. But I still remember what is was like to be tall. I told my doctor about my feelings of personal inadequacy at being only 6'3". He found it hard to empathize. He's Korean and probably no more than 5'2".

    You wrote a column years ago about how tall Michael Crichton was. You claimed he was the tallest non-basketball player in world history (or something). He was 6'9". I wrote back mentioning Maximinius Trax who was a late Roman emperor and eight feet tall (or was in nine?). That's probably not true but it is in the Augustan histories.

    I asked my doctor about a sprained Achilles tendon once and he told me to try lifts. I order a variety of these things Hollywood stars stick in their shoes. I worked my way up to the biggest ones. They were three inchers. I put them on and walked around at 6'7". It was wonderful. I was euphoric. A complete stranger saw me walking around in them and commented on how remarkably tall I was.

    But after about fifteen minutes my back was killing me. Al Pacino must have a high threshold for pain. Elevator shoes really screw up your posture and throw out your back.

    BTW even at 6'7" I still wasn't as tall a Comey.

    6'4" as a height has much to recommend it. Steve, me, Abe Lincoln and John Wayne. Not a bad group. Hollywood male movie stars all seem to wear lifts until they get to 6'4". Then they lie about their height. Dolph Lundgren was originally rejected for his Rocky movie because he was more that 6'4". Paul Bettany and Lee Pace both lie about their heights. 6'4" seems to be the maximum height a man can be in the movies unless he plays some creature or freak. You can play a normal man if you are 6'4" but no taller.

    Today on Bay Area radio, I heard someone who used to be recognized as 6’9″, referred to as 6’6″. That person was Don Nelson, erstwhile Celtic and coach of the Warriors. The speaker was ex-Warrior Tom Tolbert, who when he was playing was listed at 6’7″, but who now claims to be 6’8″.

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    • Replies: @Paul Jolliffe
    As a kid in the early 1970's, I actually saw Don Nelson play for the Celtics against the Pistons at the old Cobo Arena.

    Nelson, John Havlicek, Don Chaney and Paul Silas all appeared to be about the same height, although I see now that Havlicek was listed at 6"5", instead of 6' 6". I don't remember thinking that Nelson was taller than the rest.

    Here's a question for Steve: because John Havlicek was so good, did he seem taller than he was? If Steve Sailer were quicker and springier, would he seem even taller than the 6'4" he is now?
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  184. @Charles Pewitt
    Ribblesdale was a Lister to go by his real surname. Ribblesdale had a weak chin and a rat nose to go with his bulgy eyes.

    Ann Coulter has a more aristocratic bearing than Lister. Being that Ann Coulter has Kentucky and Tennessee ancestry, and she has American grit, and she is 6 feet beautiful tall, I bet Coulter would have taken Lister out in an Andrew Jackson style duel.

    Rat Nose Ribblesdale Lister had two sons get killed fighting for the British Empire. The internet ain't clear, but it might be Gallipoli or the Boer War or Somaliland where Rat Nose Ribblesdale Lister had his sons go belly up.

    The internet suggests that Rat Nose Ribblesdale Lister came from a family with an occupational name. Lister's people got this Ribblesdale name because they did this or that for somebody.

    General George Washington is a better representation of aristocratic bearing and looks than Rat Nose Ribblesdale Lister. George Washington had the honor to be both an Englishman and an American, Rat Nose Ribblesdale was a Limey bastard his whole life.

    The United States has Ann Coulter and George Washington, we don't need no Rat Nose Ribblesdale Lister Limey:

    https://twitter.com/THEANTHEMGIRL/status/985306766647943168

    Ann is in addition a movie star now.

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    • Replies: @Mishra
    NFW! Why do people never tell me these things?

    1. Oh, that's right, all my friends are libs :(

    2. Oh, that's right, you just did :)

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  185. @Old Palo Altan
    The old argument that El Greco was astigmatic is flawed. It takes for granted that he painted what he saw, precisely as he saw it. But if he did, then the painting which resulted would look as normal to us who are not astigmatic as the people he painted did to the normally sighted of his own day.
    In other words, and to simplify, if his astigmatism led him to see a six foot man as an elongated eight footer, then his painted figure would need to be six feet tall, if he was to see it as eight.

    The real answer as to why he painted as he did is that he was an original, and a genius to boot. Once again the limited scientific mind flounders in the face of creative intellect.

    You’re right. That makes perfect sense.

    It is interesting that there is a visual preference for the elongated human form in general, as in fashion art and runway models, even to the point of exaggeration.

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    • Replies: @Old Palo Altan
    Mannerism is the artistic movement which most strikingly mirrored this tendency.

    It is an expression of humanities love affair with beauty, of which height and elegance are essential components.

    But life always imitates art, and I have marvelled at photos of Austrian aristocrats from around 1900 who made Lord Ribblesdale look like a coal miner.
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  186. Shaq says:

    Apparently there are quite a few vertically challenged, atheists on iSteve. No David vs Goliath comments?!

    Height/size helped protect and kill generations ago, but now it’s all about status and money. Bono probably can’t beat up his grandma, but he’s taller than wilt Chamberlain (Joel Embiid for the kids) when he stands on his wallet….

    For those of you who duck getting on airplanes, check out @exitrow4thetall. Might get you a better seat. Or complain about DVT.

    I believe most actors are shorter than average and presidents are taller. Ask Abe Lincoln, who was Assassinated by the much shorter JWB.

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  187. Fun says:
    @Andrew M
    One of the problems that black men in racially-mixed countries face is that they’re the tallest kids in their school year, in an environment where rules are poorly enforced. They hit adulthood only to discover that they can’t keep intimidating smaller people with impunity. The habits they build up in childhood (using the implicit threat of violence to get what they want, without fear of intervention from the authorities) conflict with the reality of adulthood (the authorities will come to the defence of intimidated Starbucks employees).

    Better enforcement of good behavior in school might make a meaningful difference here.

    Black adults aren’t taller than that white adults, though. And the early-onset puberty height advantage vanishes during high school. Any sort of “intimidation” is mostly psychological.

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    • Replies: @Autochthon
    Your remark here isn't a refutation of Andrew M.'s, so I'm not sure about it. Do you mean only to add some other, somewhat related idea about Negro misbehaviour? Andrew's whole point is that the unusual and brief disparity in size and coddling causes problems later when the disparity and the coddling end yet the Negroes carry on with the bad behaviour they adopted during the brief period of childhood. Your point about intimidation's being psychological is odd, too: Are Europeans intimidated by Negroes? I don't know that we are. Historically, we certainly weren't. The mentally ill (now the majority!) may be, but the well-adjusted are not. Wary? Yes. The wariness is psychological in as much as it is a rational response to empirical stimuli (i.e., wisdom; experience; knowledge) – we are equally wary of rattlesnakes, icy walkways, and rotting foods (because we likewise know they are more dangerous and likely to harm us than are rabbits, clear sidewalks, and fresh fruit).
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  188. @Anonymous
    LBJ was apparently very tall. He was also allegedly very well endowed and liked to boast of his dick size in casual conversation. Are these two things related?

    [D]ick size also figures prominently in Make Up to Break Up. [Peter – five feet and nine inches tall –] Criss brags throughout that his penis is so huge he calls it the Spoiler, because it spoils women for all other men. (Though I like to imagine it’s also because it gives away the endings to movies. So if a woman sleeps with Criss she’ll wake up sexually satisfied and cognizant of the twist ending of The Sixth Sense.) As for [six-foot-tall Paul] Stanley, Criss writes that he was so lacking in the size department that when Kiss went on tour with Aerosmith, he took to stuffing his crotch. – Nathan Rabin

    Having read books by and about musicians, I thought of guys in rock bands as a pool of persons about whom there may well be a sizable (tee-hee) collection of knowledge regarding endowment, and, lo! – according to this admittedly unscientific piece (tee-hee), “The Long & The Short of It”, there does seem to be a trend of reports from groupies that tall, skinny men are also commonly…substantial.

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  189. @Mishra
    Tall people all end up with back trouble from a lifetime of dealing with a world designed for short people. Every one of whom resents you because you make an extra $79 a month and pull in a higher class of babe. It's not worth it.

    Lawn mowers, pool tables, church pews, airline seats, sports cars, kitchen counters, stairs, chairs, garden rakes, gym equipment, office furniture, one size fits all, huh.

    You said it and I missed your comment until now. We live in a world of microaggressions against tall people!

    Oh and to be white and tall? Terrible! To be noticed everywhere like that. Even worse is to be tall, white and good-looking. It’s a living hell! Everybody looks at you. It’s like being a paranoid, race-obsessed black person!

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    • Replies: @Mishra

    Even worse is to be tall, white and good-looking. It’s a living hell! Everybody looks at you.
     
    I've discovered a cure for that last bit. It's called aging.
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  190. Ivy says:
    @Clyde
    Common sense will say that short and little people must live by their wits since overpowering - dominating rivals physically can be difficult unless you have serious martial arts training.

    Someone mentioned short stuff Joe Stalin. He lived - governed by his wits, so much so that millions of Russians died from this paranoia based politics. My opinion is that tall guys can opt to kick back and cruise along more easily. At least compared to the little Napoleons out there.

    My thoughts on the nut cases who who think they are Napoleon or Napoleonic? Do only short guys do this? Are there any crazed tall Napoleon wannabees? If our host Steve ever goes haywire nuts it will not be with Napoleonic delusions of grandeur. He will have to pick a personality from another menu.

    One advantage of being tall is that people will move out of your way. Have good posture, walk with a sense of purpose and keep your gaze on some distant object, meaning on anything other than the rabble and darting random pinball objects that pass for humanity. If you’ve spent much time in New York or other big cities, you may have experienced that. Some call it sociopathy and others call it survival. Take time out to have a drink and keep perspective.

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  191. Lagertha says:

    why is everyone so hysterical?

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    • Replies: @Mishra
    Because the topic is size and we're Americans. Most of us anyway.
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  192. bartok says:
    @Altai
    I guess Steve saw this?

    https://twitter.com/JulianAssange/status/972026040183861248

    The new Spider-Man, Tom Holland is 21 or 22 but shorter than Robert Downy Jr (Thus able to play teenaged Peter Parker for some time, but I don't think would make a very compelling adult Peter Parker.) and his father had two programmes on BBC radio whose titles reflected the degree to which his height (5'6" according to wikipedia) loomed over him considering they were radio programmes...

    'The Small World of Dominic Holland' and 'Holland's Shorts'.

    As Steve knows, height privilege is something which mostly impacts men and who cares about short men? They're men afterall. There is a whole subreddit full of short men venting their feelings.

    https://www.reddit.com/r/short/

    There is also this one which is about Asian-Americans lamenting their low sexual status which I suspect has much to do with height as anything else.

    https://www.reddit.com/r/AsianMasculinity/

    Just looking up 'height privilege' on google also showed me this post on /r/tall discussing what thresholds of height constitute privilege or lack thereof.
    https://www.reddit.com/r/tall/comments/3qx2lv/i_hear_a_lot_of_talk_about_height_privilege_what/

    Asian-Americans lamenting their low sexual status which I suspect has much to do with height as anything else.

    It’s also neoteny – baby face and baby fat. Not a sexy look for men, very sexy for women.
    iSteve wrote a classic article on % fat for lean people by race and sex corresponding to attractiveness as evidenced by miscegenation rates.

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  193. I’ve noticed that men will often add a little to their purported height in the same way women will take years off their age.

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  194. Mishra says:
    @Reg Cæsar
    Ann is in addition a movie star now.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HiZ4zHXnkVQ

    NFW! Why do people never tell me these things?

    1. Oh, that’s right, all my friends are libs :(

    2. Oh, that’s right, you just did :)

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    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    "Can I ask you a question?"

    "You just did."

    "I mean, can I ask you another question?"

    "You just did.:
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  195. Medvedev says:

    Napoleon is the most famous example. Stalin and Mussolini were 5’5.

    Stalin’s height was 5ƌ”, Mussolini 5ƍ”
    Stalin wasn’t short, his height was average for Russian men at that time. Here is the data for average height of Russian men in 1960s:

    В 1960-е годы, по данным Всемирной организации здравоохранения, средний рост мужчин в СССР составлял 168 см, женщин — 157 см.

    168 cm = 5ƌ.25”

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    • Replies: @BB753
    In Stalin's case, his thick masculine moustache gave him an unfair advantage over his competitors in the Politburo. Full facial hair can make a difference.
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  196. @Pat Boyle
    I used to comment on Steve's original blog under the nom de guerre of Albertosaurus. I remember a long series of posts back and forth about being 6'4". We were both that height back then. I lost a inch or more when I fell off the cliff. But I still remember what is was like to be tall. I told my doctor about my feelings of personal inadequacy at being only 6'3". He found it hard to empathize. He's Korean and probably no more than 5'2".

    You wrote a column years ago about how tall Michael Crichton was. You claimed he was the tallest non-basketball player in world history (or something). He was 6'9". I wrote back mentioning Maximinius Trax who was a late Roman emperor and eight feet tall (or was in nine?). That's probably not true but it is in the Augustan histories.

    I asked my doctor about a sprained Achilles tendon once and he told me to try lifts. I order a variety of these things Hollywood stars stick in their shoes. I worked my way up to the biggest ones. They were three inchers. I put them on and walked around at 6'7". It was wonderful. I was euphoric. A complete stranger saw me walking around in them and commented on how remarkably tall I was.

    But after about fifteen minutes my back was killing me. Al Pacino must have a high threshold for pain. Elevator shoes really screw up your posture and throw out your back.

    BTW even at 6'7" I still wasn't as tall a Comey.

    6'4" as a height has much to recommend it. Steve, me, Abe Lincoln and John Wayne. Not a bad group. Hollywood male movie stars all seem to wear lifts until they get to 6'4". Then they lie about their height. Dolph Lundgren was originally rejected for his Rocky movie because he was more that 6'4". Paul Bettany and Lee Pace both lie about their heights. 6'4" seems to be the maximum height a man can be in the movies unless he plays some creature or freak. You can play a normal man if you are 6'4" but no taller.

    According to Wikipedia, Ted Cassidy (Lurch in The Addams Family TV series) was 6’9″:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ted_Cassidy

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  197. BB753 says:
    @Charles Pewitt
    Ribblesdale was a Lister to go by his real surname. Ribblesdale had a weak chin and a rat nose to go with his bulgy eyes.

    Ann Coulter has a more aristocratic bearing than Lister. Being that Ann Coulter has Kentucky and Tennessee ancestry, and she has American grit, and she is 6 feet beautiful tall, I bet Coulter would have taken Lister out in an Andrew Jackson style duel.

    Rat Nose Ribblesdale Lister had two sons get killed fighting for the British Empire. The internet ain't clear, but it might be Gallipoli or the Boer War or Somaliland where Rat Nose Ribblesdale Lister had his sons go belly up.

    The internet suggests that Rat Nose Ribblesdale Lister came from a family with an occupational name. Lister's people got this Ribblesdale name because they did this or that for somebody.

    General George Washington is a better representation of aristocratic bearing and looks than Rat Nose Ribblesdale Lister. George Washington had the honor to be both an Englishman and an American, Rat Nose Ribblesdale was a Limey bastard his whole life.

    The United States has Ann Coulter and George Washington, we don't need no Rat Nose Ribblesdale Lister Limey:

    https://twitter.com/THEANTHEMGIRL/status/985306766647943168

    America was built on heightism just as much as on racism: if Washington had been smaller, there’d be no United States. Standing above every other head made him rally his troops to win battles and get appointed President. Sailer is on to something.

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  198. @Hang Seng Index
    Height has diminishing returns.
    Consider relation to attractiveness.
    See how many genuinely attractive ~6' women there are.
    See how many among ~6' 3"+ men.
    They may as well be unicorns, except for Tom Brady couple.
    Attractiveness explains much about shorter leading men.

    Short people are common in movies and TV. The face is the most important part of the picture, and a short person often looks better in a shot because his head looks bigger relative to his body.

    The camera does not usually show the full person or how tall he is.

    Compensations are often made, even including having an actor stand on a platform when opposite a taller person.

    There are many great short actors who make a big impression on screen, and the pubic has no idea how short they are.

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    • Replies: @CJ
    There are many great short actors who make a big impression on screen, and the pubic has no idea how short they are.

    Typos are the lowest form of internet humor, but that was a good one.
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  199. BB753 says:
    @Medvedev

    Napoleon is the most famous example. Stalin and Mussolini were 5’5.
     
    Stalin's height was 5ƌ'', Mussolini 5ƍ''
    Stalin wasn't short, his height was average for Russian men at that time. Here is the data for average height of Russian men in 1960s:

    В 1960-е годы, по данным Всемирной организации здравоохранения, средний рост мужчин в СССР составлял 168 см, женщин — 157 см.
     
    168 cm = 5ƌ.25''

    In Stalin’s case, his thick masculine moustache gave him an unfair advantage over his competitors in the Politburo. Full facial hair can make a difference.

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  200. Mishra says:
    @Buzz Mohawk
    You said it and I missed your comment until now. We live in a world of microaggressions against tall people!

    Oh and to be white and tall? Terrible! To be noticed everywhere like that. Even worse is to be tall, white and good-looking. It's a living hell! Everybody looks at you. It's like being a paranoid, race-obsessed black person!

    Even worse is to be tall, white and good-looking. It’s a living hell! Everybody looks at you.

    I’ve discovered a cure for that last bit. It’s called aging.

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  201. Mishra says:
    @YetAnotherAnon
    Hitchens' mother was Jewish, his father a stiff-upper-lip Church of England type, a naval officer.

    Peter takes after his Dad, Christopher after his Mum.

    Wow, that explains a lot, and I never knew. Thanks

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    • Replies: @YetAnotherAnon
    His mother committed suicide when her sons were in their early 20s.
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  202. Anonymous[326] • Disclaimer says:
    @Tony
    Mick Jagger was known to have a small schween. Maybe he really was a mick.

    Keith Richards stated that Jagger had a ‘tiny todger’ but also said he had ‘enormous balls’ in the same sentence.

    The comments reference an ongoing feud between Jagger and longtime bandmate Keith Richards, after Richards wrote in his 2010 memoir Life that Mick’s onetime lover Marianne Faithfull “had no fun with his tiny todger … I know he’s got an enormous pair of balls — but it doesn’t quite fill the gap.”

    The two rock titans have ended their spat, with Richards admitting to Rolling Stone in May that “some parts of [the book], and some of the publicity, really offended Mick and I regret that.” Rehearsals are currently underway for the Stones’ 50th anniversary tour, set to debut in 2013.

    Marianne Faithfull and Jerry Hall defended Jagger’s equipment in comments at around that time.

    Whatever the size of it, Jagger’s member has certainly served its purpose. He’s known to have fathered eight children by five women and to have had sex with a pretty impressive roster of other famous women on the side.

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  203. Mishra says:
    @J.Ross
    OT Amy Schumer unites Rotten Tomatoes critics and fans
    It has often been observed that the scoring of movies at Rotten Tomatoes by professional critics has an inverse relationship with scoring by audiences. This is not the case with Amy Schumer's new film I Feel Pretty, (critics 36%, humans 31%).

    Hard to believe that some dude actually married that sad cabbage patch doll. She’s a perfect example of that peculiar mix of smug and repulsive that characterizes so many social-grievance types. And privileged to boot, natch.

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  204. Mishra says:
    @Stan d Mute

    add toilets, snow shovels, commercial vehicle day cabs, and pants to your list of discrimination.
     
    Shoes, shirts, coats, sports cars, motorcycles, bicycles, old houses, etc...

    I know a medically disabled airline pilot with permanent neck deformity from hunching in cockpits.

    And keep in mind that a person of disadvantageous height is a target of violence from every wannabe tough guy looking to impress.

    Even adjustable (telescoping) steering wheels in cars, which are no longer within comfortable reach when the seat is adjusted for longer legs….because short people could end up too close to wheel for airbag safety, if they misadjusted the wheel.

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    • Replies: @Stan d Mute
    BMW 7-Series have for many years offered seat articulation that allows for separate adjustment of the upper seat back independent of seat height/position or lumbar support. Others like Merc’s seat bottom articulation allow more or less length for thigh support. Overall, Volvo has by far the best seats for the automotive dollar spent although Ford is giving everyone a run for their money with seats in the (current year) Navigator.

    Seating is the #1 thing I look at in a car (daily driver) as the rest is all easily modified (ie drivetrain upgrades).
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  205. Anonymous[363] • Disclaimer says:
    @YetAnotherAnon
    Mr Jagger also sampled Carla Bruni in her prime, long before M. Sarkozy cast an eye on her.

    Jagger is an intelligent chap who's fathered 8 children. He's 74 and his dad died at 93, so he has time for more. On the other hand, Paul Weller of The Jam and Style Council also has 8, and he's "only" 59!

    Tangentially on topic, this tweet shows interracial marriages in the US. It looks like either Yellow Fever is a thing or White Fever is. For every Oriental ethnicity, more women than men marry whites. More Japanese and Filipino women marry white men than they marry men of their own race. 90% of white women who marry choose a white spouse.

    Of course this says nothing about the couples who aren't married.

    https://twitter.com/tcjfs/status/986619976244191233

    That reminds me, whatever happened to the excellent http://www.xsteve.com website? It was IIRC a fan page devoted to our own respected host.

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  206. Mishra says:
    @AndrewR
    I'm 5'11" and have never wished I was taller except while playing basketball, which I have seldom done in my life.

    Yeah, I’m 6-3 and aside from basketball and volleyball, I think 5-11 is about the perfect height for guys. The only other example I can come up with is being in a standing-only audience. As you state, all of these things combined are about 0.001% of my lifetime, the rest of which pretty much punished me for the extra height. But I’ll stop whining, because no one likes it when tall people complain.

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  207. Mishra says:

    Steve, you old devil. Knocking out the Big C in your thirties? Congrats.

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  208. sabril says:
    @Autochthon
    Big deal; Mick Jagger had several physically attractive ones. We all know being short, ugly, or any number of other things takes a back seat to the single most important physical characteristic of all in human males: the thickness of the wallet.

    I endorse the points made also about the insane expectations of females (but I repeat myself) about males. There are reams of empirical evidence about the phenomenon, but perhaps the most concise and telling datum is that women using online dating services consistently rate around eighty per cent of all males they encounter as "below average" in appearance, giving us mathematics straight out of Lake Woebegone.... Only just imagine the outcry if men on such sites routinely and casually stated no date would be considered with any woman lacking at least a DD chest. I expect if it became too common the SJWs would demand action by the service; i should not be surprised if many such services to already quietly censure or remove such material from the postings of men cheeky enough to express such preferences.

    In my own days mucking about with such services, I anecdotally found the majority of women routinely demanded – this was no mere preference; it was stated as a threshold requirement – that any suitor be at least six feet tall to be considered for a date (a mere date – not marriage!). Needless to say, this again represents a very strange understanding of statistics, since such women – the over-wehelming majority hardly remarkable enough themselves to be making demands*) have thereby excluded from consideration the vast majority of men.

    These kinds of things are probably well understood by most readers of this forum, so I may've already belaboured the point, but such phenomena are also involved with the increasingly tolerated disaster (from the perspective of maintaining orderly and productive society) of a small set of men monopolising a larger set of women, serially as the women wait their turns for someone "good enough" for them or simultaneously via dating that is not exclusive, as average Joes are left to date Rosy Palms. The phenomenon has always occurred and always will to some extent, but it has been exacerbated exponentially by the wholesale rejection of chastity outside marriage and by permissive divorce, not only without any shame or infamy suffered by either party, but indeed with fabulous cash and prizes for nearly every party of the female part.

    *I expect Hayden Panettiere or Kat Dennings could demand suitors be at least seven feet tall and still find themselves spoiled for choice by the numbers of eager beaus, but these gals online were not in the same league, nor even the same sport....

    I believe one of the major online dating sites set things up to make it very easy to automatically filter profiles based on height but no other characteristic. They had some convoluted explanation for it, but it seemed pretty obvious that the real aim was to pander to women.

    As far as your hypothetical outrage scenario goes, there is a non-hypothetical example since many men refuse to date girls who are fat. But it’s unusual to see it spelled out on many dating profiles since men are relentlessly shamed for preferring thin partners. I remember a meme floating around to the effect that men’s biggest fear in internet dating is that their date will turn out to be fat while women’s is that their date will turn out to be a rapist. Probably that’s not even true (women probably worry that the man will turn out to be short) but even if it were, the aim of the meme is to invalidate and trivialize men’s legitimate concerns.

    But anyway, I think that all of this confirms my hypothesis about heightism. Since the dawn of the human species, people have been acutely aware that due to biology a tribe’s male population is — for the most part — expendable while the female population is not. That the majority of men are genetic dead ends and ultimately a waste of resources. So that a man must prove himself to have value while women area automatically valued. The upshot of this is that a man who fails to prove himself gets little sympathy.

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  209. @Autochthon
    With due respect, you– like anyone else similarly tall – are a damned fool for joining the Marine Corps of the United States Navy – whose entire raison d'etre is—ahem—marine (specifically, amphibious) warfare, and whose personnel are therefore highly likely (indeed, all but certainly, after a few years) bound to spend time aboard a ship (probably an LHD or LHA). You should have joined the army (although it's possible that, exhibiting the same good sense and foresight you did by joining the marines, you'd have sought to be assigned to the crew of a tank...).

    LOL – thank you for that perspective and insight. I was not so fortunate to be on a helo-carrier as you mention, I was on the USS Ogden and USS Cleveland, LPD’s 5 and 8, respectively.

    And it’s funny you should mention – I actually signed up for tanks – but since I am partially colorblind, got dumped into AAV’s. But that turned out to be a blessing when in the field, because I always had a dry warm place to sleep when the grunts and tankers were sleeping in the dirt.

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  210. @Stan d Mute

    add toilets, snow shovels, commercial vehicle day cabs, and pants to your list of discrimination.
     
    Shoes, shirts, coats, sports cars, motorcycles, bicycles, old houses, etc...

    I know a medically disabled airline pilot with permanent neck deformity from hunching in cockpits.

    And keep in mind that a person of disadvantageous height is a target of violence from every wannabe tough guy looking to impress.

    You’re absolutely right about the short man’s complex. They do go looking for the tall one’s to start trouble with, especially after 1 and a half beers.

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  211. Tyrion 2 says:
    @Intelligent Dasein

    Were you taller...
     
    Troglodytism is just about your intellectual speed, but I'm 6'2" in my bare feet, so...try again.

    What’s the explanation then? Your bearing, your personality?

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  212. Mishra says:
    @Lagertha
    why is everyone so hysterical?

    Because the topic is size and we’re Americans. Most of us anyway.

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  213. @CJ
    Comments on one of yesterday’s posts mentioned a Pygmy from Africa who was exhibited in the Bronx Zoo in 1904. According to the story the Pygmy was 4’11” which, as well as being the height of Robert Reich and Deng Xiaoping, sounds pretty tall for a Pygmy.

    Somebody else noted that W.C. Fields had the last word about this:

    http://www.azquotes.com/quote/827645

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  214. @Marty
    Today on Bay Area radio, I heard someone who used to be recognized as 6'9", referred to as 6'6". That person was Don Nelson, erstwhile Celtic and coach of the Warriors. The speaker was ex-Warrior Tom Tolbert, who when he was playing was listed at 6'7", but who now claims to be 6'8".

    As a kid in the early 1970′s, I actually saw Don Nelson play for the Celtics against the Pistons at the old Cobo Arena.

    Nelson, John Havlicek, Don Chaney and Paul Silas all appeared to be about the same height, although I see now that Havlicek was listed at 6″5″, instead of 6′ 6″. I don’t remember thinking that Nelson was taller than the rest.

    Here’s a question for Steve: because John Havlicek was so good, did he seem taller than he was? If Steve Sailer were quicker and springier, would he seem even taller than the 6’4″ he is now?

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    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Havlicek had unbelievable levels of endurance in terms of minutes played per season.

    Did he have particularly long arms? My recollection of him was as an early Scottie Pippen type -- a guy who was always reaching out and getting a hand on the ball, but not a super accurate shooter, probably because long arms and accurate shooting are negativelycorrelated.

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  215. @nglaer
    Girls don't like to go out with guys who aren't taller than them. My daughters are 5-8 and 5-11 and it limits their options.

    Yup, you’re exactly right.

    I was at an awards dinner for stand-out girl high school volleyball players recently, and the outside hitters and middle blockers were all 6′, 6’1, or 6’2, and almost without exception, they were all wearing heels.

    As pretty, smart, athletic and tall young ladies, they were going to intimidate the crap out of 99% of all the young men they would ever come across in life.

    Jordan Peterson has much to say about this very phenomenon:

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    • Replies: @Stan d Mute

    I was at an awards dinner for stand-out girl high school volleyball players recently, and the outside hitters and middle blockers were all 6′, 6’1, or 6’2, and almost without exception, they were all wearing heels.

    As pretty, smart, athletic and tall young ladies, they were going to intimidate the crap out of 99% of all the young men they would ever come across in life.
     
    It’s a big problem for these gals..

    I’m of sufficient tallness that I’d be a huge catch to these women if I were still on the market. But almost without exception I fail to find these ladies attractive. Way too often they’ll have that masculinity that too-tall women like Janet Reno possess or that anorexic look like Ann Coulter. Or their proportions will just be off generally with breasts too small for their physique, hips too narrow, shoulders too broad, etc. Obviously much depends on set/setting and personality, meet in the right place and time and that girl you’d never consider on match(dot)com is your lifelong partner, but that world fades as the (current year) beckons.

    Chicks of unusual tallness are a fetish more than fantasy I think. Like fat chicks only not vomit inducing.

    Just as women prefer taller men, men prefer shorter women as a rule and there must surely be a golden ratio - my guess is it’s probably around 6” (M>F) with huge drop-offs at 1’ (M>F) & 0” (M=F).
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  216. @Seamus Day
    Bill Gates = 5'10

    Jeff Bezos = 5'8

    Warren Buffett = 5'10

    Mark Zuckerberg = 5'7.5

    Larry Ellison = 6'3

    David Koch = 6'5

    Michael Bloomberg = 5'8

    Larry Page = 5'11

    Sergey Brin = 5'8

    Kevin Systrom = 6'5

    Paul Allen = 5'10

    Sean Parker = 5'10

    Elon Musk = 6'2

    Steve Ballmer = 6'5

    The average height of an American billionaire is 5’11.5” or over 2” taller than the average American male.

    Just a correction: Steve Ballmer is nowhere near 6’5″ and isn’t the kind of guy to claim he is. Years back, I was guarding him in a pickup basketball game and blocked one of his shots–which more or less never happens when i have to guard an actual tall guy. Ballmer is a taller–and bigger–guy than the average American male, but he’s in the 6 or 6’1″ range, pretty sure he’s no more than 6’2″.

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  217. L Woods says:
    @Reactionary Utopian
    I’m 5 feet 7 on a good day. But as a white male born in 1954, I never concerned myself with societal bias against short guys. I could learn calculus, and physics was and is pretty intuitive for me, so I just got on with things. Never had any trouble.

    Besides, Confucius say: “Short guy on dance floor get bust in face.” Which ain’t half bad.

    “Short…studied physics…never had any trouble.” Oh, to come of age in the pre-runaway hypergamy era. Unimaginable today.

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  218. @Autochthon
    With due respect, you– like anyone else similarly tall – are a damned fool for joining the Marine Corps of the United States Navy – whose entire raison d'etre is—ahem—marine (specifically, amphibious) warfare, and whose personnel are therefore highly likely (indeed, all but certainly, after a few years) bound to spend time aboard a ship (probably an LHD or LHA). You should have joined the army (although it's possible that, exhibiting the same good sense and foresight you did by joining the marines, you'd have sought to be assigned to the crew of a tank...).

    All statements addressed to another that begin with the phrase “with all due respect” invariably show none.

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    • Replies: @Autochthon
    Not so; indeed the reply to my remark is in keeping with my own perspective and intentions – what you observe is a good-natured chiding by one veteran of another with a rejoinder along the lines of "Don't I know it, brother."

    By any chance is your hair purple and do you find The Benny Hill Show to be sexist and disrespectful?
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  219. @Mishra
    Wow, that explains a lot, and I never knew. Thanks

    His mother committed suicide when her sons were in their early 20s.

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  220. @Tony
    Mick Jagger was known to have a small schween. Maybe he really was a mick.

    “Maybe he really was a mick.”

    Jagger is a German name, from jaeger – a hunter. It was also a type of small pack horse used by travelling pedlars in the days before good roads – there are a few ‘Jagger Lanes” in northern England.

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    • Replies: @Anonymous
    There is a famous portrait by a Dutch master type of someone in the 1700s who was a dead ringer for Jagger. And I know a guy who would be a dead ringer for him as well except he's 6'2" and he is Dutch as well. So maybe Dutch, despite the German name?
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  221. I’m 5’7″, grew up in NYC and always felt normal, height-wise. Ditto when I went to the University of Chicago. But I never forget going into Chicago one day, walking along Michigan Avenue, and feeling awfully small. All those Germanic and Scandinavian types. After college, returned to NYC to be surrounded by Jews and Southern Europeans, where I fit in.

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    • Replies: @Perspective
    As a 6'2 man I'm generally taller than most people, however, last year when I was in a project group at work I was paired with four other male colleagues and was the shortest in the group. The Pakistani guy and the South African (White) were 6'3, the Viet man was 6'4 (claimed to be one of the tallest Vietnamese ever) and the other White guy was a towering 6'7. I wonder what the chances of this occurring at random are?
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  222. @Doug
    It's an interesting question. Why would people ever advocate for a traditionally low-status group? If group X is marginalized in society, it would seem associating ones self with group X could only lower social status. Even if you're from group X, you don't want to highlight it. Some humans are genuinely altruistic, but the vast majority are highly status conscious. So how did we ever end up with Civil Rights movement, women's equality and gay marriage?

    I think the answer is that there needs to be at least some subculture or social framing, where the oppressed group is relatively high status. We don't all agree on social ranking. A 22-year old Brooklyn hipster thinks that the winner of the World Barista Championship is a pretty big deal, but wouldn't give a second glance at a megachurch pastor. A 60 year old Accountant and father from Iowa is the reverse. Whenever you've had genuine social advancement of some marginalized group, it's because some sub-culture held that group in high esteem, and pushed their interests on the broader population.

    In 1963 blacks were considered cool, sexy and hip by the young, educated, urban and Northern. A lot of famous musicians, athletes and actors were black by that point. Women may be excluded from the board room and golf course, but at a bar or party an attractive woman is almost always the center of attention. Being gay is haram in backwoods Mississippi, but by the 1990s the Sex and the City crowd considered them fabulous, fashionable, and fascinating.

    Straight, white men pushed for blacks, women and gay rights because in their social circles they *want* to be associated with those groups. Having black, female and gay friends was a good thing at least for a large segment of the country.

    In contrast there's no significant sub-culture where short men are considered high status. Even if you're a short man, you don't want to advocate for your group, because it only highlights your own stature. Similarly we see, at best, lackluster social advocacy for the ugly, the infertile, the fat, and the socially awkward. Even though in 2018 all those groups are discriminated much more universally than any of the traditional oppressed categories.

    Even the disabled, a group which, by far, should elicit the most human compassion, play second fiddle. Mainstream social justice will usually only even mention "able-ism" in passing. My guess is that transphobia and Islamophobia receive 50 times the money and attention as able-ism.

    Why would people ever advocate for a traditionally low-status group?

    It’s ironic that the whole point of Christianity is to do this, yet few Christians do.

    As an aside, pointing out how people are hypocrites vis-a-vis their religion isn’t the way to popularity.

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  223. @Autochthon

    So if I only date pretty women that limits my options for dating?
     
    Since not all women are pretty: Yes; yes it does. This conclusion follows from such rudimentary logic most children can easily understand it. (I shan't even bother with presenting the formal proof.)

    Obviously not a believer in “beauty is in the eye of the beholder,” I’m afraid.

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  224. Steve-O says:
    @AndrewR
    How much of Robert Reich's utter insufferableness can be attributed to the fact that he's a mini-man of 4'11"?

    What about unattractive people? Why is money the only thing that needs redistributing? What about sex? I always figured that people might not argue so hard for wealth redistribution of a homeless person also got to have sex with their spouse due to using the same logic for sex redistribution.

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    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    What about unattractive people? Why is money the only thing that needs redistributing? What about sex?
     
    By far the smartest thing Ayn Rand ever said was that the Left is obsessed with money and doesn't care about sex, and with the right [sic; it's like "north" and "South"] it's the opposite. Each side is quite liberal about the thing it doesn't care about, but demands strict control over that which they deem critical.

    I must be a rightist. It is about blood and soil, after all.

    Extending the military draft to women is a stupid idea, but perhaps you could argue for a sex draft. A Seductive Service System? Only women 18-26 need register, and only those judged fit would be inducted.
    , @L Woods
    Try posing that question to the average normie. Great way to induce a bovine stare. It's like when I once suggested that the groups that are considered "protected" are arbitrary, and wondered why we couldn't include others.
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  225. Brutusale says:
    @LeftLawyer
    The NYC subways discriminate against tall kids - 44 inches tall and under ride for free - http://web.mta.info/metrocard/mcgtreng.htm.

    This of course discriminates against Blacks and Whites in favor of Asians. Years ago in the consent decree for the San Francisco Fire Department, they were forced to drop the height requirement for firefighters as it was said do discriminate against Asians.

    Back when Kareem Abdul-Jabbar was still Lew Alcindor he talked about having to carry his birth certificate to the Saturday afternoon triple features at the theater because nobody believed he was young enough for the kids’ ticket price.

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    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    Back when Kareem Abdul-Jabbar was still Lew Alcindor he talked about having to carry his birth certificate to the Saturday afternoon triple features...
     
    Three movies on one ticket. For kids. In New York City.

    That was a long time ago!

    Not that anything in Airplane! was supposed to be believable, but Kareem was far too tall and too young to be an airline pilot.
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  226. uman says:
    @Chrisnonymous

    An outlier phenomenon I’ve noticed
     
    I know it's base to bring up, but I believe this phenomenon is related to the size of the generative organs. There are tall men whose said organs are not commensurately impressive. I believe these men's experiences of surprised and disappointed partners lead them to have less confidence than we would otherwise expect.

    what are these generative organs and where can we find them?

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  227. @Paul Jolliffe
    As a kid in the early 1970's, I actually saw Don Nelson play for the Celtics against the Pistons at the old Cobo Arena.

    Nelson, John Havlicek, Don Chaney and Paul Silas all appeared to be about the same height, although I see now that Havlicek was listed at 6"5", instead of 6' 6". I don't remember thinking that Nelson was taller than the rest.

    Here's a question for Steve: because John Havlicek was so good, did he seem taller than he was? If Steve Sailer were quicker and springier, would he seem even taller than the 6'4" he is now?

    Havlicek had unbelievable levels of endurance in terms of minutes played per season.

    Did he have particularly long arms? My recollection of him was as an early Scottie Pippen type — a guy who was always reaching out and getting a hand on the ball, but not a super accurate shooter, probably because long arms and accurate shooting are negativelycorrelated.

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    • Replies: @Brutusale
    John Havlicek had a resting heart rate of 42 BPM. He simply ran his opposition into the ground.

    https://www.thelantern.com/2011/01/ohio-state-legend-john-havlicek-enjoying-life-away-from-spotlight/
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  228. Brutusale says:
    @Buck
    At 5'9", I'm the shortest in my immediate family by far. Only one other male cousin out of a dozen resides with me south of 6'. My short stature is probably somewhat genetic but I also cut weight as a High School wrestler in those growing years which makes me think I may have stunted my own growth. Wrestling is one sport which doesn't preference height. Wrestlers need fast-twitch muscles and lots of them in a compact frame. Speed, strength and stamina are more important than stature.

    I would be interested to know about other sports. Jockeys are tiny but the horse is the real athlete. Hockey?

    It’s the rare major league pitcher who’s under 6 feet.

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  229. Brutusale says:
    @Stan d Mute

    I would be interested to know about other sports. Jockeys are tiny but the horse is the real athlete. Hockey?
     
    Most is just common sense physics isn’t it? Motorsports are largely a function of power/weight. Taller folk are heavier so you’ll see more short guys as racing car or motorcycle drivers/riders. Hockey, skiing, or soccer are dependent on fast change in direction and favor shorter lighter people except in positions such as goalkeeper where blocking maximum space is of value.

    Are there any good counterintuitive examples? Ping pong or tennis where reach might be of higher value in the confines of the game than ability to change direction more quickly?

    Pitchers in baseball, especially starters, tend to be taller. Part of Randy Johnson’s success was that at 6’10″ it seemed like he was releasing the ball from about 10′ away.

    At the other end of the tape measure, I imagine a 6-foot gymnast is a serious outlier.

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  230. Brutusale says:
    @Steve Sailer
    Havlicek had unbelievable levels of endurance in terms of minutes played per season.

    Did he have particularly long arms? My recollection of him was as an early Scottie Pippen type -- a guy who was always reaching out and getting a hand on the ball, but not a super accurate shooter, probably because long arms and accurate shooting are negativelycorrelated.

    John Havlicek had a resting heart rate of 42 BPM. He simply ran his opposition into the ground.

    https://www.thelantern.com/2011/01/ohio-state-legend-john-havlicek-enjoying-life-away-from-spotlight/

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  231. CJ says:
    @Buzz Mohawk
    Short people are common in movies and TV. The face is the most important part of the picture, and a short person often looks better in a shot because his head looks bigger relative to his body.

    The camera does not usually show the full person or how tall he is.

    Compensations are often made, even including having an actor stand on a platform when opposite a taller person.

    There are many great short actors who make a big impression on screen, and the pubic has no idea how short they are.

    There are many great short actors who make a big impression on screen, and the pubic has no idea how short they are.

    Typos are the lowest form of internet humor, but that was a good one.

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  232. @Mishra
    NFW! Why do people never tell me these things?

    1. Oh, that's right, all my friends are libs :(

    2. Oh, that's right, you just did :)

    “Can I ask you a question?”

    “You just did.”

    “I mean, can I ask you another question?”

    “You just did.:

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    • Replies: @MEH 0910

    Mayor Adam West - Will you answer one question for me?
     
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PzjjVF6xgf8
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  233. @Steve-O
    What about unattractive people? Why is money the only thing that needs redistributing? What about sex? I always figured that people might not argue so hard for wealth redistribution of a homeless person also got to have sex with their spouse due to using the same logic for sex redistribution.

    What about unattractive people? Why is money the only thing that needs redistributing? What about sex?

    By far the smartest thing Ayn Rand ever said was that the Left is obsessed with money and doesn’t care about sex, and with the right [sic; it's like "north" and "South"] it’s the opposite. Each side is quite liberal about the thing it doesn’t care about, but demands strict control over that which they deem critical.

    I must be a rightist. It is about blood and soil, after all.

    Extending the military draft to women is a stupid idea, but perhaps you could argue for a sex draft. A Seductive Service System? Only women 18-26 need register, and only those judged fit would be inducted.

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    • Replies: @Old Palo Altan
    Himmler thought of it first, and, yes, it is a very good idea.
    , @J.Ross
    There was a really good thread on /k/ (4chan's kinetics board, a more serious, factually rigorous board with a higher average user age, for "weapons") about female cops. A lot of horror stories but Europeans defended them on the grounds that they free up men to do the bucket-emptying, and they can search females in cultures or localities that mandate same-gender searching. The second point is solid. The first is dishonest and destructive, a stealth demotion. Same thing happened in the military starting in WWI. Because women automatically go to higher-status, more comfortable positions as a function of their inability to serve in mud, they think that's a promotion. A month ago NPR had an actvist memorializing female military telephone switchboard operators. She didn't say they were freeing up men to go over the top, she said men were not capable of operating a telephone switchboard.
    tldr even the defenders of female police said they could only be assistants and should never be sent out alone.
    http://boards.4chan.org/k/thread/37616705
    , @Anonymous

    By far the smartest thing Ayn Rand ever said was that the Left is obsessed with money and doesn’t care about sex, and with the right [sic; it's like "north" and "South"] it’s the opposite. Each side is quite liberal about the thing it doesn’t care about, but demands strict control over that which they deem critical.

    I must be a rightist. It is about blood and soil, after all.

    Extending the military draft to women is a stupid idea, but perhaps you could argue for a sex draft. A Seductive Service System? Only women 18-26 need register, and only those judged fit would be inducted.
     

    By far the smartest thing about Harold Covington's novels is that in his utopia (Rand, like Covington, is a utopian: hers is Galt's Gulch and his is the Northwest American Republic) there is universal service for males and females. Where I differ with Covington is his fascination with girl soldiers: women do not belong in combat.

    I would go for universal service for all, male and female, except for females who marry, stay married, and have children immediately after high school (illegitimate mothers should have definite obligations to discourage bastardy). Males would have military service as a prime expectation, with those unsuited to it allowed civilian service whereas with women they would be assigned civilian service with volunteers going to noncombat military billets.

    And, you are right that Rand was right in stating that " each side is quite liberal about the thing it doesn’t care about, but demands strict control over that which they deem critical." Rand was a brilliant but very disturbed woman, and in very many ways an exception that tests the rules re females, Russians, novelists, and Jew(esse)s.

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  234. @Joe Stalin
    So "don't like" "limits their options?"

    So if I only date pretty women that limits my options for dating?

    So if I only date pretty women that limits my options for dating?

    Not if you lower your standards.

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  235. @I, Libertine
    All statements addressed to another that begin with the phrase "with all due respect" invariably show none.

    Not so; indeed the reply to my remark is in keeping with my own perspective and intentions – what you observe is a good-natured chiding by one veteran of another with a rejoinder along the lines of “Don’t I know it, brother.”

    By any chance is your hair purple and do you find The Benny Hill Show to be sexist and disrespectful?

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  236. L Woods says:
    @Steve-O
    What about unattractive people? Why is money the only thing that needs redistributing? What about sex? I always figured that people might not argue so hard for wealth redistribution of a homeless person also got to have sex with their spouse due to using the same logic for sex redistribution.

    Try posing that question to the average normie. Great way to induce a bovine stare. It’s like when I once suggested that the groups that are considered “protected” are arbitrary, and wondered why we couldn’t include others.

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    • Agree: Mishra
    • Replies: @Mishra
    It's an endless enigma. Not only are 'protected classes' fairly arbitrary, but there's an either/or phenomenon rather than a degree of protection. You're either black or you're not, despite 50 shades of tan. We readily make fun of ugly people up to a point, after which it's obscene to do so; same with stupid people. You're not even allowed to call retarded people retarded any more, but you can call people stupid idiots all day long (provided they aren't, quite). I'd say more but I need to save this material for the stand-up act I'm never going to do.
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  237. Marty T says:
    @nglaer
    Girls don't like to go out with guys who aren't taller than them. My daughters are 5-8 and 5-11 and it limits their options.

    Oh poor babies. Maybe they should consider things that aren’t superficial. Two thirds of men are as tall or taller than your 5’8 daughter. Almost half of men for your 5’11.

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  238. Rod1963 says:
    @The Anti-Gnostic
    Tall women have the same problem in the other direction. Attractive 6' women have a smaller pool of sexually attractive men to compete over. There's probably a roughly golden-mean of bodily proportion ratios between sexual partners. As I heard one woman put it, she wouldn't have sex with someone she felt she could hold in her lap.

    An outlier phenomenon I've noticed is tall men with poor self-image/confidence. Short men seem to have powerful compensatory measures that kick in but I've met tall men who seem unable to capitalize on their height in the sexual market. Jeb Bush, who married his Aztec hotel room maid, is a good example.

    On the right side tail, sheer bigness is a real health issue. The other day sports talk was going nuts over a redshirt freshman at UGA who's 6'7" and 330 pounds. If he goes on to pay the toll of professional football he'll probably be dead by age 60. If the NFL was forward-thinking and sympathetic, instead of just greedy and stupid, they'd figure out some way to dial back the athletic arms race.

    On the right side tail, sheer bigness is a real health issue. The other day sports talk was going nuts over a redshirt freshman at UGA who’s 6’7″ and 330 pounds. If he goes on to pay the toll of professional football he’ll probably be dead by age 60. If the NFL was forward-thinking and sympathetic, instead of just greedy and stupid, they’d figure out some way to dial back the athletic arms race.

    The NFL is a freak show and serves as a advertisement for PED’s and those who run the NFL don’t care if these guys end up cripples by 30 or so.

    It’s no better than the WWE.

    That said the guy in question will be a cripple by 30, diabetic by 35 and dead by 50 or so. That is beyond big – he’s about the size of the World’s Strongest Man competitors. Though past winners like Kazmier and Mariusz Pudzianowski were only about 6’1″ or so.

    But they all know to drop the weight to a more manageable level when they stop competing.

    It’s really a PITA to maintain and not good for a human.

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    • Replies: @Stan d Mute

    The NFL is a freak show and serves as a advertisement for PED’s and those who run the NFL don’t care if these guys end up cripples by 30 or so.

    It’s no better than the WWE.

    That said the guy in question will be a cripple by 30, diabetic by 35 and dead by 50 or so. That is beyond big – he’s about the size of the World’s Strongest Man competitors. Though past winners like Kazmier and Mariusz Pudzianowski were only about 6’1″ or so.

    But they all know to drop the weight to a more manageable level when they stop competing.

    It’s really a PITA to maintain and not good for a human.
     
    I wasn’t going to comment again in this thread, but like others with a dog in the hunt I can’t seem to stop myself..

    Anyway, I know a professional bodybuilder as a lifelong very close friend and can attest to all of this either directly myself or indirectly via my friend. Just the caloric intake necessary to maintain the size these guys attain is insane. Try consuming 10,000 calories of high value foods for just one day. Then imagine doing that or even double that for 8mo of the year (if not all year). Add the PEDs (“Mr Natty” is a myth), add the repetitive motion injuries, add the impact injuries, add the cumulative effect of the endless strain on bones/cartilage, add the damage from surgeries, add the cumulative damage from pain reliever dependence, etc.

    But just “drop(ping) the weight” after competing (1) isn’t always so easy and (2) won’t fix any of what’s already been damaged.
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  239. @Buzz Mohawk
    You're right. That makes perfect sense.

    It is interesting that there is a visual preference for the elongated human form in general, as in fashion art and runway models, even to the point of exaggeration.

    Mannerism is the artistic movement which most strikingly mirrored this tendency.

    It is an expression of humanities love affair with beauty, of which height and elegance are essential components.

    But life always imitates art, and I have marvelled at photos of Austrian aristocrats from around 1900 who made Lord Ribblesdale look like a coal miner.

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  240. @Reg Cæsar

    What about unattractive people? Why is money the only thing that needs redistributing? What about sex?
     
    By far the smartest thing Ayn Rand ever said was that the Left is obsessed with money and doesn't care about sex, and with the right [sic; it's like "north" and "South"] it's the opposite. Each side is quite liberal about the thing it doesn't care about, but demands strict control over that which they deem critical.

    I must be a rightist. It is about blood and soil, after all.

    Extending the military draft to women is a stupid idea, but perhaps you could argue for a sex draft. A Seductive Service System? Only women 18-26 need register, and only those judged fit would be inducted.

    Himmler thought of it first, and, yes, it is a very good idea.

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  241. @Mishra
    Tall people all end up with back trouble from a lifetime of dealing with a world designed for short people. Every one of whom resents you because you make an extra $79 a month and pull in a higher class of babe. It's not worth it.

    Lawn mowers, pool tables, church pews, airline seats, sports cars, kitchen counters, stairs, chairs, garden rakes, gym equipment, office furniture, one size fits all, huh.

    we could write a book about what sucks about being tall but we all know none of us would trade an inch for all of it. Ill keep paying extra for my clothes i wont fly commercial anymore though i just cant

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  242. MEH 0910 says:
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    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    His grandson, Trayon Trayvon Troyer, won't know him growing up, but will always have that Beach Boys tune to help him make it through the night.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rtWTs6mxAH4
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  243. @Pat Boyle
    I used to comment on Steve's original blog under the nom de guerre of Albertosaurus. I remember a long series of posts back and forth about being 6'4". We were both that height back then. I lost a inch or more when I fell off the cliff. But I still remember what is was like to be tall. I told my doctor about my feelings of personal inadequacy at being only 6'3". He found it hard to empathize. He's Korean and probably no more than 5'2".

    You wrote a column years ago about how tall Michael Crichton was. You claimed he was the tallest non-basketball player in world history (or something). He was 6'9". I wrote back mentioning Maximinius Trax who was a late Roman emperor and eight feet tall (or was in nine?). That's probably not true but it is in the Augustan histories.

    I asked my doctor about a sprained Achilles tendon once and he told me to try lifts. I order a variety of these things Hollywood stars stick in their shoes. I worked my way up to the biggest ones. They were three inchers. I put them on and walked around at 6'7". It was wonderful. I was euphoric. A complete stranger saw me walking around in them and commented on how remarkably tall I was.

    But after about fifteen minutes my back was killing me. Al Pacino must have a high threshold for pain. Elevator shoes really screw up your posture and throw out your back.

    BTW even at 6'7" I still wasn't as tall a Comey.

    6'4" as a height has much to recommend it. Steve, me, Abe Lincoln and John Wayne. Not a bad group. Hollywood male movie stars all seem to wear lifts until they get to 6'4". Then they lie about their height. Dolph Lundgren was originally rejected for his Rocky movie because he was more that 6'4". Paul Bettany and Lee Pace both lie about their heights. 6'4" seems to be the maximum height a man can be in the movies unless he plays some creature or freak. You can play a normal man if you are 6'4" but no taller.

    I lost a inch or more when I fell off the cliff.

    Consider yourself lucky. Mike Smith, lead singer for the Dave Clark Five, also fell off a cliff, and lost a whole lot more. So did Doug Kenney of National Lampoon and Animal House fame.

    Falling off the wagon isn’t good, either, but is more survivable.

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  244. J.Ross says: • Website
    @Reg Cæsar

    What about unattractive people? Why is money the only thing that needs redistributing? What about sex?
     
    By far the smartest thing Ayn Rand ever said was that the Left is obsessed with money and doesn't care about sex, and with the right [sic; it's like "north" and "South"] it's the opposite. Each side is quite liberal about the thing it doesn't care about, but demands strict control over that which they deem critical.

    I must be a rightist. It is about blood and soil, after all.

    Extending the military draft to women is a stupid idea, but perhaps you could argue for a sex draft. A Seductive Service System? Only women 18-26 need register, and only those judged fit would be inducted.

    There was a really good thread on /k/ (4chan’s kinetics board, a more serious, factually rigorous board with a higher average user age, for “weapons”) about female cops. A lot of horror stories but Europeans defended them on the grounds that they free up men to do the bucket-emptying, and they can search females in cultures or localities that mandate same-gender searching. The second point is solid. The first is dishonest and destructive, a stealth demotion. Same thing happened in the military starting in WWI. Because women automatically go to higher-status, more comfortable positions as a function of their inability to serve in mud, they think that’s a promotion. A month ago NPR had an actvist memorializing female military telephone switchboard operators. She didn’t say they were freeing up men to go over the top, she said men were not capable of operating a telephone switchboard.
    tldr even the defenders of female police said they could only be assistants and should never be sent out alone.

    http://boards.4chan.org/k/thread/37616705

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  245. @AnotherDad

    You can compare height bias with bias against fat people, which gets a good deal of attention. Presumably because bias against fat people disproportionately affects women.
     
    And yet the bias against fat people is completely fair, because people chose to be fat.

    people chose to be fat

    Are you sure about that?

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    • Replies: @L Woods
    Yes
    , @Mishra


    people choose to be fat
     
    Are you sure about that?

     

    He means just fat people, I think. Not people in general ;)
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  246. Anonymous[427] • Disclaimer says:
    @Reg Cæsar

    What about unattractive people? Why is money the only thing that needs redistributing? What about sex?
     
    By far the smartest thing Ayn Rand ever said was that the Left is obsessed with money and doesn't care about sex, and with the right [sic; it's like "north" and "South"] it's the opposite. Each side is quite liberal about the thing it doesn't care about, but demands strict control over that which they deem critical.

    I must be a rightist. It is about blood and soil, after all.

    Extending the military draft to women is a stupid idea, but perhaps you could argue for a sex draft. A Seductive Service System? Only women 18-26 need register, and only those judged fit would be inducted.

    By far the smartest thing Ayn Rand ever said was that the Left is obsessed with money and doesn’t care about sex, and with the right [sic; it's like "north" and "South"] it’s the opposite. Each side is quite liberal about the thing it doesn’t care about, but demands strict control over that which they deem critical.

    I must be a rightist. It is about blood and soil, after all.

    Extending the military draft to women is a stupid idea, but perhaps you could argue for a sex draft. A Seductive Service System? Only women 18-26 need register, and only those judged fit would be inducted.

    By far the smartest thing about Harold Covington’s novels is that in his utopia (Rand, like Covington, is a utopian: hers is Galt’s Gulch and his is the Northwest American Republic) there is universal service for males and females. Where I differ with Covington is his fascination with girl soldiers: women do not belong in combat.

    I would go for universal service for all, male and female, except for females who marry, stay married, and have children immediately after high school (illegitimate mothers should have definite obligations to discourage bastardy). Males would have military service as a prime expectation, with those unsuited to it allowed civilian service whereas with women they would be assigned civilian service with volunteers going to noncombat military billets.

    And, you are right that Rand was right in stating that ” each side is quite liberal about the thing it doesn’t care about, but demands strict control over that which they deem critical.” Rand was a brilliant but very disturbed woman, and in very many ways an exception that tests the rules re females, Russians, novelists, and Jew(esse)s.

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  247. Anonymous[427] • Disclaimer says:
    @YetAnotherAnon
    "Maybe he really was a mick."

    Jagger is a German name, from jaeger - a hunter. It was also a type of small pack horse used by travelling pedlars in the days before good roads - there are a few 'Jagger Lanes" in northern England.

    There is a famous portrait by a Dutch master type of someone in the 1700s who was a dead ringer for Jagger. And I know a guy who would be a dead ringer for him as well except he’s 6’2″ and he is Dutch as well. So maybe Dutch, despite the German name?

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  248. J.Ross says: • Website
    @Stan d Mute

    I’ve been in conversations where a taller person “corrects” me with the answer I had just given.
     
    Speak up from down there if you want us grownups to hear you!

    https://youtu.be/8bfyS-S-IJs

    The anger, it grows, even as my spinal column cannot.

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    • Replies: @Stan d Mute
    Trust me, you’re better off short in this world. I lost my hair during both chemo and radiation - I looked like Deadpool with all the scars from a lifetime of bashing my head into too-low ceilings, doorways, open cabinet doors, etc.
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  249. @Bobby Lupo
    I'm 5'7", grew up in NYC and always felt normal, height-wise. Ditto when I went to the University of Chicago. But I never forget going into Chicago one day, walking along Michigan Avenue, and feeling awfully small. All those Germanic and Scandinavian types. After college, returned to NYC to be surrounded by Jews and Southern Europeans, where I fit in.

    As a 6’2 man I’m generally taller than most people, however, last year when I was in a project group at work I was paired with four other male colleagues and was the shortest in the group. The Pakistani guy and the South African (White) were 6’3, the Viet man was 6’4 (claimed to be one of the tallest Vietnamese ever) and the other White guy was a towering 6’7. I wonder what the chances of this occurring at random are?

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    • Replies: @Mishra
    Sounds like management was ghettoizing you.

    Otherwise, yes, the odds are roughly nil.
    , @Stan d Mute

    As a 6’2 man I’m generally taller than most people, however, last year when I was in a project group at work I was paired with four other male colleagues and was the shortest in the group.
     
    How strange was that? I’m taller than you, but have never been (off a bouncy ball court) around a group my height or taller.

    Also, body type is an issue with height as we can carry a LOT of weight and BMI is useless for us. I can look healthy anywhere from 230# to 270#. Under 200# and I look like a crackhead or tweaker. I’m always surprised when I see how tiny many body builders are compared to guys like Lou Ferrigno (6’5” 270#) - even Arnie BlackPower was only 6’2” 235# at his peak (both have gone much heavier 315# v 260#). Guys like Dave Bautista @ 6’6” 290# or smaller Dwayne Johnson @ 6’5” 260# illustrate the point in more contemporary examples.
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  250. I am six foot one but have never found it gave me any advantage in life, with jobs, females or anything else. I think taller men tend to be more docile in general than short men, with shorter men being more aggressive and getting the job done. This might be because short men feel they have to work harder to prove themselves in life or there’s just more energy in a smaller package. Whatever the reason, I would say that the world is run by shorter men.

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    • Replies: @Stan d Mute

    I am six foot one but have never found it gave me any advantage in life, with jobs, females or anything else. I think taller men tend to be more docile in general than short men, with shorter men being more aggressive and getting the job done. This might be because short men feel they have to work harder to prove themselves in life or there’s just more energy in a smaller package. Whatever the reason, I would say that the world is run by shorter men.
     
    Poorly adjusted runts hate us the same way negroes hate us and for the same reasons. Maybe at 6’1” it’s just not been as obvious to you (being closer to the average) or perhaps you’re not as vigilant as others, but it’s there and readily obvious if you care to Notice it. As for advantages, it’s a mixed bag there too. One can definitely be “too tall” to pick up hot chicks just as one can be “too short” (both conditions irrelevant if ones’ wallet is fat enough or one possesses enough fame/infamy). In a biz setting, tall is clearly better than short. But in day-to-day living, taller equals more health problems, more injuries, disastrous ergonomics, torturous seating (esp airline), and impossibly of anonymity. The few pros, that we can reach higher things, pick up heavier things, etc, are radically offset by the many cons unless you can capitalize on the economic advantages in the biz world and/or sexual market advantages (both, again, dependent on variables in addition to tallness).
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  251. @Brutusale
    Back when Kareem Abdul-Jabbar was still Lew Alcindor he talked about having to carry his birth certificate to the Saturday afternoon triple features at the theater because nobody believed he was young enough for the kids' ticket price.

    Back when Kareem Abdul-Jabbar was still Lew Alcindor he talked about having to carry his birth certificate to the Saturday afternoon triple features…

    Three movies on one ticket. For kids. In New York City.

    That was a long time ago!

    Not that anything in Airplane! was supposed to be believable, but Kareem was far too tall and too young to be an airline pilot.

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  252. @MEH 0910
    Verne Troyer, Mini-Me in ‘Austin Powers,’ Dies at 49

    https://pmcvariety.files.wordpress.com/2018/04/rexfeatures_8963067p_edited.jpg

    His grandson, Trayon Trayvon Troyer, won’t know him growing up, but will always have that Beach Boys tune to help him make it through the night.

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  253. @YetAnotherAnon
    Mr Jagger also sampled Carla Bruni in her prime, long before M. Sarkozy cast an eye on her.

    Jagger is an intelligent chap who's fathered 8 children. He's 74 and his dad died at 93, so he has time for more. On the other hand, Paul Weller of The Jam and Style Council also has 8, and he's "only" 59!

    Tangentially on topic, this tweet shows interracial marriages in the US. It looks like either Yellow Fever is a thing or White Fever is. For every Oriental ethnicity, more women than men marry whites. More Japanese and Filipino women marry white men than they marry men of their own race. 90% of white women who marry choose a white spouse.

    Of course this says nothing about the couples who aren't married.

    https://twitter.com/tcjfs/status/986619976244191233

    Just for the record, I used to be friends with a relative of Mick Jagger and he told me that Jagger was of jewish descent.

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    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Not calling you a liar-he may have indeed said that-but I doubt there is much Jewish blood if any in the Jagger family. Not to say that there couldn't be in the future-Jagger was known to have given Carly Simon a right round rogering and it's doubtful she was the only Jewess he's boffed. (Then again, my father nailed Susan Sontag, so I'm in no position to deprecate this. I'd have done Carly in her prime in a minute.) Pretty good odds at least one of his eight kids has kids with someone of obvious Jewish descent eventually, if they already haven't.
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  254. L Woods says:
    @ScarletNumber

    people chose to be fat
     
    Are you sure about that?

    Yes

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  255. Mishra says:
    @ScarletNumber

    people chose to be fat
     
    Are you sure about that?

    people choose to be fat

    Are you sure about that?

    He means just fat people, I think. Not people in general ;)

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  256. Mishra says:
    @Perspective
    As a 6'2 man I'm generally taller than most people, however, last year when I was in a project group at work I was paired with four other male colleagues and was the shortest in the group. The Pakistani guy and the South African (White) were 6'3, the Viet man was 6'4 (claimed to be one of the tallest Vietnamese ever) and the other White guy was a towering 6'7. I wonder what the chances of this occurring at random are?

    Sounds like management was ghettoizing you.

    Otherwise, yes, the odds are roughly nil.

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  257. Mishra says:
    @L Woods
    Try posing that question to the average normie. Great way to induce a bovine stare. It's like when I once suggested that the groups that are considered "protected" are arbitrary, and wondered why we couldn't include others.

    It’s an endless enigma. Not only are ‘protected classes’ fairly arbitrary, but there’s an either/or phenomenon rather than a degree of protection. You’re either black or you’re not, despite 50 shades of tan. We readily make fun of ugly people up to a point, after which it’s obscene to do so; same with stupid people. You’re not even allowed to call retarded people retarded any more, but you can call people stupid idiots all day long (provided they aren’t, quite). I’d say more but I need to save this material for the stand-up act I’m never going to do.

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  258. The answer to both questions is no. I’m a tall veteran with a bad back – a consequence of two years of squeezing into a tank. I assume your questions were posed with all due respect.

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  259. Corvinus says:
    @The Anti-Gnostic
    Like most indigenous/mestizo, her good days were before age 18 if not 16. She actually seems to have markers for dwarfism, whether hereditary or nutritional I don't know. There's also her dismal cognitive level.

    Again, for a tall, connected, and smart guy, he punched way, way below his class, and he has the kind of kids you'd expect from it.

    “Like most indigenous/mestizo, her good days were before age 18 if not 16.”

    Of course, you as a supposed devout Orthodox run the risk of running afoul in the eyes of the Lord with such a patently false statement. Saint Dorotheos says “Those who desire to be saved do not pay attention to the faults of their neighbor, but always to their own and thus progress. Such was the man who saw his brother sinning and groaned, saying “Alas, he sinned today for sure it will be me tomorrow.”

    Of course, we are hypocrites in some way, shape, or form at various times. It’s just that you make it a career. Pro tip –> It is important for you not to lose the focus on your own sinfulness and your own need for repentance.

    “There’s also her dismal cognitive level.”

    OK, so she may be not as bright as other people, but she definitely more astute than you can hope to be. Another new low, even for you.

    “Again, for a tall, connected, and smart guy, he punched way, way below his class, and he has the kind of kids you’d expect from it.”

    No, Jeb actually got the knock out punch. Stable marriage, devoted wife, religious minded family, and kids to boot.

    You can’t even get your own wife to stay home and raise your little ones.

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    • Replies: @Mishra

    Jeb actually got the knock out punch. Stable marriage, devoted wife, religious minded family, and kids to boot.
     
    Dude. He's married to a Wookie.

    https://imgoat.com/uploads/0c7c76d30b/49517.png

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  260. Corvinus says:
    @Wency
    True.

    Also, this is compounded by the fact that women are generally crueler/less sympathetic to men they find unattractive than men are to unattractive women (at least among adults). Women feel the need to maintain the "bitch shield" to actively repel such men, while men don't need to do this.

    But also this factor plays out mostly in the dating world. And there's never going to be much of a push for equality in that arena.

    It's true that there are also some career advantages to being tall, but I think this is most true in politics and traditional corporate management sorts of roles. If you're anything but impressively tall, handsome, and charming, you should avoid these sorts of career tracks. Not hard to do.

    I'm 5'8", and I've never felt the slightest bit of impact to my career from being short. But relative to my 6'+ friends, I've felt the impact in terms of women's reactions my entire adult life.

    “Also, this is compounded by the fact that women are generally crueler/less sympathetic to men they find unattractive than men are to unattractive women (at least among adults).”

    You obviously haven’t visited Chateau’s blog. Supposed the author there is a cruelty artist, or is that Vox Day? I get my narcissists mixed up.

    “Women feel the need to maintain the “bitch shield” to actively repel such men, while men don’t need to do this.”

    Men are no different in this regard. Whether they make a rude comment to let a woman know they are not interested, or toy around with them then drop them to the curb, men have their own defenses to ensure that they are not to be bothered with annoying or unattractive or desperate women.

    “I’m 5’8″, and I’ve never felt the slightest bit of impact to my career from being short. But relative to my 6′+ friends, I’ve felt the impact in terms of women’s reactions my entire adult life.”

    No different than the portly men or fatty women. Welcome to their club.

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  261. Anonymous[427] • Disclaimer says:
    @Serge Kawalski
    Just for the record, I used to be friends with a relative of Mick Jagger and he told me that Jagger was of jewish descent.

    Not calling you a liar-he may have indeed said that-but I doubt there is much Jewish blood if any in the Jagger family. Not to say that there couldn’t be in the future-Jagger was known to have given Carly Simon a right round rogering and it’s doubtful she was the only Jewess he’s boffed. (Then again, my father nailed Susan Sontag, so I’m in no position to deprecate this. I’d have done Carly in her prime in a minute.) Pretty good odds at least one of his eight kids has kids with someone of obvious Jewish descent eventually, if they already haven’t.

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  262. @Mishra
    Tall people all end up with back trouble from a lifetime of dealing with a world designed for short people. Every one of whom resents you because you make an extra $79 a month and pull in a higher class of babe. It's not worth it.

    Lawn mowers, pool tables, church pews, airline seats, sports cars, kitchen counters, stairs, chairs, garden rakes, gym equipment, office furniture, one size fits all, huh.

    The last place I lived in had a kitchen benchtop that was 15cm (6″) higher than normal – it was a joy for me, but The Lovely (who is 5’7″) actually found it difficult to use the sink, because the point of her elbows were slightly below the level of the benchtop. She used to look like the was having to ‘reach in’ to use the sink.

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  263. @The Anti-Gnostic
    He means Adolf Reich, and he was actually 5'9". Conquered most of Europe from a country the size of Montana.

    Wasn’t that actually Adolf Reich III?

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  264. Mishra says:
    @Corvinus
    "Like most indigenous/mestizo, her good days were before age 18 if not 16."

    Of course, you as a supposed devout Orthodox run the risk of running afoul in the eyes of the Lord with such a patently false statement. Saint Dorotheos says "Those who desire to be saved do not pay attention to the faults of their neighbor, but always to their own and thus progress. Such was the man who saw his brother sinning and groaned, saying "Alas, he sinned today for sure it will be me tomorrow."

    Of course, we are hypocrites in some way, shape, or form at various times. It's just that you make it a career. Pro tip --> It is important for you not to lose the focus on your own sinfulness and your own need for repentance.

    "There’s also her dismal cognitive level."

    OK, so she may be not as bright as other people, but she definitely more astute than you can hope to be. Another new low, even for you.

    "Again, for a tall, connected, and smart guy, he punched way, way below his class, and he has the kind of kids you’d expect from it."

    No, Jeb actually got the knock out punch. Stable marriage, devoted wife, religious minded family, and kids to boot.

    You can't even get your own wife to stay home and raise your little ones.

    Jeb actually got the knock out punch. Stable marriage, devoted wife, religious minded family, and kids to boot.

    Dude. He’s married to a Wookie.

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    • Replies: @Corvinus
    Dude, he's married to a woman. But you would rather take pot shots at one's bliss. Says much about your character.
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  265. I’ll admit it: when I see some tosschops doing something to compensate for an otherwise empty life (things like driving an oversized pickup, riding a Harley, driving a sports car, pretending that being an expert in wine/cigars/coffee/olive oil is a thing), I can never resist say

    Has any man over 5’8″ who finished high school ever done that?

    or

    Folks shouldn’t be able to buy a car if they can’t see over the top of it

    How’s that song go?

    They got
    little hands
    little eyes
    they run around tellin’ great big lies
    Don’ want no short people ’round me

    I’m pretty sure I inherited my “apart-height” worldview from my Dad (6’3″) – he says that sort of thing and always has.

    Fortunately my overweening ego was damped because of the presence of my younger brother (4 years younger) who was taller than me by the time he was 9, and by the time I was the tallest kid in class, I had finished school.

    I finished growing late – from 5’10 at 17, I finished up at 6’1½” (that last ½” matters dammit - ask your Mom). My brother was 6’5″ by the time he was 15, and he’s 6’7″ now if he ever stands up straight; his boys (18 and 20 years old) are taller than me (and taller than their Dad… until he rears up on his hind legs).

    The problem with being linebacker-sized and white[1] these days, is that if you attempt to correct the behaviour the type of ill-mannered trash that you encounter: you’re the bad guy.

    If people are walking four-abreast and you don’t make way for themyou’re the bad guy. If you upbraid a 70-ish shrimp in a tweed jacket for walking right to the head of the queue and shouting his order… you’re the bad guy.

    Fortunately I’m not wired to care if some bunch of untermenschen think I’m ‘rude’: I refer to them as members of the CUSE – Cult of Unmerited Self-Esteem.

    [1] the greatest injustice: to top it off, I’m not even really white! (25% Maori, cuz!)

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  266. @Fun
    Black adults aren't taller than that white adults, though. And the early-onset puberty height advantage vanishes during high school. Any sort of "intimidation" is mostly psychological.

    Your remark here isn’t a refutation of Andrew M.’s, so I’m not sure about it. Do you mean only to add some other, somewhat related idea about Negro misbehaviour? Andrew’s whole point is that the unusual and brief disparity in size and coddling causes problems later when the disparity and the coddling end yet the Negroes carry on with the bad behaviour they adopted during the brief period of childhood. Your point about intimidation’s being psychological is odd, too: Are Europeans intimidated by Negroes? I don’t know that we are. Historically, we certainly weren’t. The mentally ill (now the majority!) may be, but the well-adjusted are not. Wary? Yes. The wariness is psychological in as much as it is a rational response to empirical stimuli (i.e., wisdom; experience; knowledge) – we are equally wary of rattlesnakes, icy walkways, and rotting foods (because we likewise know they are more dangerous and likely to harm us than are rabbits, clear sidewalks, and fresh fruit).

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  267. @Autochthon
    With due respect, you– like anyone else similarly tall – are a damned fool for joining the Marine Corps of the United States Navy – whose entire raison d'etre is—ahem—marine (specifically, amphibious) warfare, and whose personnel are therefore highly likely (indeed, all but certainly, after a few years) bound to spend time aboard a ship (probably an LHD or LHA). You should have joined the army (although it's possible that, exhibiting the same good sense and foresight you did by joining the marines, you'd have sought to be assigned to the crew of a tank...).

    I admit that I took your comment literally, as I know realize it was meant to be humorous. Sorry.

    But my reply was directed at the comment, particularly the cliché “with all due respect,” a pet peeve for me, as irritating to as clichés such as “a pet peeve” are to others. It was not directed at person making it.

    So it seem seems misunderstood each other. But – and I could be wrong here, too – I didn’t perceive the “purple hair” portion of your sur-reply to be good-natured.

    P.S. I, too, am a tall veteran (Army), left with a bad back as a consequence.

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    • Replies: @Autochthon
    It's true: I was taking the piss from you for what I deemed (rightly or wrongly) to be a bit of pearl-clutching on your part. I appreciate the olive branch, and I reciprocate; it's all good in the hood, down yonder in the holler.
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  268. MEH 0910 says:
    @Reg Cæsar
    "Can I ask you a question?"

    "You just did."

    "I mean, can I ask you another question?"

    "You just did.:

    Mayor Adam West – Will you answer one question for me?

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  269. @Intelligent Dasein
    What seems to be a preference for height is almost always an affectation that people employ in order to prepossess themselves of the favor of someone whom they desire for quite other purposes. "Height" is sort of a generic compliment you can pay someone, such as "strength" or "handsomeness" would be. For instance, if you were trying to move a couch into your new apartment and saw some guys milling about, a good way to solicit their help would be to say something like, "Would any of you strong young men be willing to lend me a hand here?" That should not be taken to construe that the men in question were particularly strong, or that raw strength was the most desired quality under any circumstance. It is more a case of recognizing that an adequate strength exists in the subjects and, wishing to take advantage of it for your own purposes, flattering it through affect compensation. This only works because most people would prefer to think of themselves as strong as opposed to weak, and will demand this "tribute" from you in exchange for their services. There is a complicated psychological transaction going on here, apart from which it is not clear that burliness confers any particular advantage per se. If the consideration where simply a material one (and if, as the evolutionists insist, life continuously developed itself along the fitness principle) then a trend towards increasing strength would be everywhere and always observed. There would be no accounting for the extreme disparity between the mouse and the elephant, and no way of explaining the variation even within a species. That the compliment is merely a relative one is amply demonstrated by the fact that girls will refer to a man they like as "tall" even when he is barely pushing 5'9". As everyone has felt, it is much easier to give convincing displays of strength when that strength is appreciated and wanted---a subject meriting further examination.

    What seems to be a preference for height is almost always an affectation that people employ in order to prepossess themselves of the favor of someone whom they desire for quite other purposes.

    No, it’s not. The phenomenon is most obvious where the people are strangers and know nothing about each other besides their appearance and location.

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  270. No, it’s not. The phenomenon is most obvious where the people are strangers and know nothing about each other besides their appearance and location.

    What are you even talking about? There is no “phenomenon” here. Besides which, even on your own argument, nonsensical as it is, you’re still proving my point. Sentiment rules only where there are no facts. So if people expressed a preference for height in the absence of any useful information, and did so to such a degree that it was “most obvious” precisely under those conditions (thereby entailing that the preference became less obvious as more information became available), that alone would prove precisely what I said in the first place, viz. that the preference was an affectation.

    I swear, most of you people do not know how to think, how to argue, or even how to perceive. The high IQ set, indeed.

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  271. @J.Ross
    The anger, it grows, even as my spinal column cannot.

    Trust me, you’re better off short in this world. I lost my hair during both chemo and radiation – I looked like Deadpool with all the scars from a lifetime of bashing my head into too-low ceilings, doorways, open cabinet doors, etc.

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  272. @Perspective
    As a 6'2 man I'm generally taller than most people, however, last year when I was in a project group at work I was paired with four other male colleagues and was the shortest in the group. The Pakistani guy and the South African (White) were 6'3, the Viet man was 6'4 (claimed to be one of the tallest Vietnamese ever) and the other White guy was a towering 6'7. I wonder what the chances of this occurring at random are?

    As a 6’2 man I’m generally taller than most people, however, last year when I was in a project group at work I was paired with four other male colleagues and was the shortest in the group.

    How strange was that? I’m taller than you, but have never been (off a bouncy ball court) around a group my height or taller.

    Also, body type is an issue with height as we can carry a LOT of weight and BMI is useless for us. I can look healthy anywhere from 230# to 270#. Under 200# and I look like a crackhead or tweaker. I’m always surprised when I see how tiny many body builders are compared to guys like Lou Ferrigno (6’5” 270#) – even Arnie BlackPower was only 6’2” 235# at his peak (both have gone much heavier 315# v 260#). Guys like Dave Bautista @ 6’6” 290# or smaller Dwayne Johnson @ 6’5” 260# illustrate the point in more contemporary examples.

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  273. @Mishra
    Even adjustable (telescoping) steering wheels in cars, which are no longer within comfortable reach when the seat is adjusted for longer legs....because short people could end up too close to wheel for airbag safety, if they misadjusted the wheel.

    BMW 7-Series have for many years offered seat articulation that allows for separate adjustment of the upper seat back independent of seat height/position or lumbar support. Others like Merc’s seat bottom articulation allow more or less length for thigh support. Overall, Volvo has by far the best seats for the automotive dollar spent although Ford is giving everyone a run for their money with seats in the (current year) Navigator.

    Seating is the #1 thing I look at in a car (daily driver) as the rest is all easily modified (ie drivetrain upgrades).

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    • Replies: @Anonymous
    I guess aftermarket seats are not a thing anymore. I remember when Recaro and Corbeau did a hell of a business.

    Street rodders love the 7 Series BMW since so many go to the junkyard with little used parts that can be adapted to their projects. Usually the driver's seat is all worn out but the passenger seat is pristine.

    Ford Mustangs had seats much in demand for reinstallation in trucks. At one time I think these were OEM Recaros and then they went to an inhouse seat that had much of the Recaro's characteristics. I remember a Mexican (second/third gen immigrant, light mestiza in her 50s, has a front license holder with both US and Mex flags on it, a son in the USMC) female co worker who proudly showed me her seventies Chevy truck she'd bought with Mustang bucket seats. She bought it because she wanted a pickup but didn't want a bench seat because on trips her husband wanted to have impromptu sex all the time and the bucket seats put the kibosh on that.
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  274. @John Green
    I am six foot one but have never found it gave me any advantage in life, with jobs, females or anything else. I think taller men tend to be more docile in general than short men, with shorter men being more aggressive and getting the job done. This might be because short men feel they have to work harder to prove themselves in life or there's just more energy in a smaller package. Whatever the reason, I would say that the world is run by shorter men.

    I am six foot one but have never found it gave me any advantage in life, with jobs, females or anything else. I think taller men tend to be more docile in general than short men, with shorter men being more aggressive and getting the job done. This might be because short men feel they have to work harder to prove themselves in life or there’s just more energy in a smaller package. Whatever the reason, I would say that the world is run by shorter men.

    Poorly adjusted runts hate us the same way negroes hate us and for the same reasons. Maybe at 6’1” it’s just not been as obvious to you (being closer to the average) or perhaps you’re not as vigilant as others, but it’s there and readily obvious if you care to Notice it. As for advantages, it’s a mixed bag there too. One can definitely be “too tall” to pick up hot chicks just as one can be “too short” (both conditions irrelevant if ones’ wallet is fat enough or one possesses enough fame/infamy). In a biz setting, tall is clearly better than short. But in day-to-day living, taller equals more health problems, more injuries, disastrous ergonomics, torturous seating (esp airline), and impossibly of anonymity. The few pros, that we can reach higher things, pick up heavier things, etc, are radically offset by the many cons unless you can capitalize on the economic advantages in the biz world and/or sexual market advantages (both, again, dependent on variables in addition to tallness).

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  275. @Rod1963

    On the right side tail, sheer bigness is a real health issue. The other day sports talk was going nuts over a redshirt freshman at UGA who’s 6’7″ and 330 pounds. If he goes on to pay the toll of professional football he’ll probably be dead by age 60. If the NFL was forward-thinking and sympathetic, instead of just greedy and stupid, they’d figure out some way to dial back the athletic arms race.
     
    The NFL is a freak show and serves as a advertisement for PED's and those who run the NFL don't care if these guys end up cripples by 30 or so.

    It's no better than the WWE.

    That said the guy in question will be a cripple by 30, diabetic by 35 and dead by 50 or so. That is beyond big - he's about the size of the World's Strongest Man competitors. Though past winners like Kazmier and Mariusz Pudzianowski were only about 6'1" or so.

    But they all know to drop the weight to a more manageable level when they stop competing.

    It's really a PITA to maintain and not good for a human.

    The NFL is a freak show and serves as a advertisement for PED’s and those who run the NFL don’t care if these guys end up cripples by 30 or so.

    It’s no better than the WWE.

    That said the guy in question will be a cripple by 30, diabetic by 35 and dead by 50 or so. That is beyond big – he’s about the size of the World’s Strongest Man competitors. Though past winners like Kazmier and Mariusz Pudzianowski were only about 6’1″ or so.

    But they all know to drop the weight to a more manageable level when they stop competing.

    It’s really a PITA to maintain and not good for a human.

    I wasn’t going to comment again in this thread, but like others with a dog in the hunt I can’t seem to stop myself..

    Anyway, I know a professional bodybuilder as a lifelong very close friend and can attest to all of this either directly myself or indirectly via my friend. Just the caloric intake necessary to maintain the size these guys attain is insane. Try consuming 10,000 calories of high value foods for just one day. Then imagine doing that or even double that for 8mo of the year (if not all year). Add the PEDs (“Mr Natty” is a myth), add the repetitive motion injuries, add the impact injuries, add the cumulative effect of the endless strain on bones/cartilage, add the damage from surgeries, add the cumulative damage from pain reliever dependence, etc.

    But just “drop(ping) the weight” after competing (1) isn’t always so easy and (2) won’t fix any of what’s already been damaged.

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  276. @Paul Jolliffe
    Yup, you're exactly right.

    I was at an awards dinner for stand-out girl high school volleyball players recently, and the outside hitters and middle blockers were all 6', 6'1, or 6'2, and almost without exception, they were all wearing heels.

    As pretty, smart, athletic and tall young ladies, they were going to intimidate the crap out of 99% of all the young men they would ever come across in life.

    Jordan Peterson has much to say about this very phenomenon:

    https://youtu.be/gKYsf1A42O4

    I was at an awards dinner for stand-out girl high school volleyball players recently, and the outside hitters and middle blockers were all 6′, 6’1, or 6’2, and almost without exception, they were all wearing heels.

    As pretty, smart, athletic and tall young ladies, they were going to intimidate the crap out of 99% of all the young men they would ever come across in life.

    It’s a big problem for these gals..

    I’m of sufficient tallness that I’d be a huge catch to these women if I were still on the market. But almost without exception I fail to find these ladies attractive. Way too often they’ll have that masculinity that too-tall women like Janet Reno possess or that anorexic look like Ann Coulter. Or their proportions will just be off generally with breasts too small for their physique, hips too narrow, shoulders too broad, etc. Obviously much depends on set/setting and personality, meet in the right place and time and that girl you’d never consider on match(dot)com is your lifelong partner, but that world fades as the (current year) beckons.

    Chicks of unusual tallness are a fetish more than fantasy I think. Like fat chicks only not vomit inducing.

    Just as women prefer taller men, men prefer shorter women as a rule and there must surely be a golden ratio – my guess is it’s probably around 6” (M>F) with huge drop-offs at 1’ (M>F) & 0” (M=F).

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  277. Anonymous[363] • Disclaimer says:

    I remember reading somewhere that in Japanese POW camps in WWII, tall guys fared the worst and were usually the first to die. If you’re a tall guy and you find yourself in a situation where short guys have power of life and death over you, you’re unlikely to make it out alive.

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    • Replies: @Bliss

    in Japanese POW camps in WWII, tall guys fared the worst and were usually the first to die. If you’re a tall guy and you find yourself in a situation where short guys have power of life and death over you, you’re unlikely to make it out alive.

     

    The nail that sticks out gets hammered down.” (Ancient Japanese saying)

    On the other hand during the brutal battles in the Pacific during WWII the tall guys wouldn’t even take the short guys as POWs:

    http://www.newsweek.com/war-without-mercy-118013

    No one was squeamish about what was ethical then, that's for sure. Anything to kill Japs and stay alive. Our motto was 'The only good Jap is a dead Jap.' That's the way it was."
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  278. Anonymous[427] • Disclaimer says:
    @Stan d Mute
    BMW 7-Series have for many years offered seat articulation that allows for separate adjustment of the upper seat back independent of seat height/position or lumbar support. Others like Merc’s seat bottom articulation allow more or less length for thigh support. Overall, Volvo has by far the best seats for the automotive dollar spent although Ford is giving everyone a run for their money with seats in the (current year) Navigator.

    Seating is the #1 thing I look at in a car (daily driver) as the rest is all easily modified (ie drivetrain upgrades).

    I guess aftermarket seats are not a thing anymore. I remember when Recaro and Corbeau did a hell of a business.

    Street rodders love the 7 Series BMW since so many go to the junkyard with little used parts that can be adapted to their projects. Usually the driver’s seat is all worn out but the passenger seat is pristine.

    Ford Mustangs had seats much in demand for reinstallation in trucks. At one time I think these were OEM Recaros and then they went to an inhouse seat that had much of the Recaro’s characteristics. I remember a Mexican (second/third gen immigrant, light mestiza in her 50s, has a front license holder with both US and Mex flags on it, a son in the USMC) female co worker who proudly showed me her seventies Chevy truck she’d bought with Mustang bucket seats. She bought it because she wanted a pickup but didn’t want a bench seat because on trips her husband wanted to have impromptu sex all the time and the bucket seats put the kibosh on that.

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    • Replies: @Stan d Mute
    Recaros are still big with performance enthusiasts looking to “add lightness” but I’m referring to car seating amenable to height disadvantaged people for daily driving. Here’s Lincoln’s latest:

    https://youtu.be/jbB40dpMTvU
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  279. @Anonymous
    I guess aftermarket seats are not a thing anymore. I remember when Recaro and Corbeau did a hell of a business.

    Street rodders love the 7 Series BMW since so many go to the junkyard with little used parts that can be adapted to their projects. Usually the driver's seat is all worn out but the passenger seat is pristine.

    Ford Mustangs had seats much in demand for reinstallation in trucks. At one time I think these were OEM Recaros and then they went to an inhouse seat that had much of the Recaro's characteristics. I remember a Mexican (second/third gen immigrant, light mestiza in her 50s, has a front license holder with both US and Mex flags on it, a son in the USMC) female co worker who proudly showed me her seventies Chevy truck she'd bought with Mustang bucket seats. She bought it because she wanted a pickup but didn't want a bench seat because on trips her husband wanted to have impromptu sex all the time and the bucket seats put the kibosh on that.

    Recaros are still big with performance enthusiasts looking to “add lightness” but I’m referring to car seating amenable to height disadvantaged people for daily driving. Here’s Lincoln’s latest:

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  280. Marty T says:
    @Buck
    At 5'9", I'm the shortest in my immediate family by far. Only one other male cousin out of a dozen resides with me south of 6'. My short stature is probably somewhat genetic but I also cut weight as a High School wrestler in those growing years which makes me think I may have stunted my own growth. Wrestling is one sport which doesn't preference height. Wrestlers need fast-twitch muscles and lots of them in a compact frame. Speed, strength and stamina are more important than stature.

    I would be interested to know about other sports. Jockeys are tiny but the horse is the real athlete. Hockey?

    NHL players average 6’1 so hockey selects for height less than the other major US sports, but height still matters. Soccer is better for short guys.

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  281. Bliss says:

    Lord Ribblesdale epitomized the height~upper class connection:

    Natural arrogance, elegance and self-confidence that no man of a later age would ever achieve”? Is that a joke? The portrait looks almost like a caricature: matching a long lean body with a small sad face, and Jodhpurs with a top hat.

    Painting the short (5’ 6”), plump aristocrat Churchill standing next to this obscurity Ribblesdale would complete the cartoon. Even more so would painting him alongside his plump little Queen, Victoria (5’ 0”).

    Btw, England’s greatest scientist Newton was 5’ 6”, and it’s greatest engineer Brunel was a dwarfish 5’ 0”. Perhaps there is an inverse correlation between height and IQ? After all, Jews and East Asians have the highest IQs and tend to be short….

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  282. Anonymous[263] • Disclaimer says:

    Tall guys tend to do poorly in USMC infantry units. Injuries, heat stress, etc. Medium height/medium build guys do the best. Same for special forces, etc.

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  283. @J1234

    Why Is There So Little Concern About Height Prejudice?
     
    Blacks are often tall.

    They are also often short due to a flatter height distribution curve. The black height average is very slightly lower than the white average, pretty much negligible difference, but whites are more likely to be closer to the average.

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    • Replies: @J1234

    They are also often short due to a flatter height distribution curve. The black height average is very slightly lower than the white average, pretty much negligible difference, but whites are more likely to be closer to the average.
     
    Interesting. I didn't know that. Thanks.
    - J
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  284. Bliss says:
    @Anonymous
    I remember reading somewhere that in Japanese POW camps in WWII, tall guys fared the worst and were usually the first to die. If you're a tall guy and you find yourself in a situation where short guys have power of life and death over you, you're unlikely to make it out alive.

    in Japanese POW camps in WWII, tall guys fared the worst and were usually the first to die. If you’re a tall guy and you find yourself in a situation where short guys have power of life and death over you, you’re unlikely to make it out alive.

    The nail that sticks out gets hammered down.” (Ancient Japanese saying)

    On the other hand during the brutal battles in the Pacific during WWII the tall guys wouldn’t even take the short guys as POWs:

    http://www.newsweek.com/war-without-mercy-118013

    No one was squeamish about what was ethical then, that’s for sure. Anything to kill Japs and stay alive. Our motto was ‘The only good Jap is a dead Jap.’ That’s the way it was.”

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  285. Corvinus says:
    @Mishra

    Jeb actually got the knock out punch. Stable marriage, devoted wife, religious minded family, and kids to boot.
     
    Dude. He's married to a Wookie.

    https://imgoat.com/uploads/0c7c76d30b/49517.png

    Dude, he’s married to a woman. But you would rather take pot shots at one’s bliss. Says much about your character.

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  286. @I, Libertine
    I admit that I took your comment literally, as I know realize it was meant to be humorous. Sorry.

    But my reply was directed at the comment, particularly the cliché "with all due respect," a pet peeve for me, as irritating to as clichés such as "a pet peeve" are to others. It was not directed at person making it.

    So it seem seems misunderstood each other. But - and I could be wrong here, too - I didn't perceive the "purple hair" portion of your sur-reply to be good-natured.

    P.S. I, too, am a tall veteran (Army), left with a bad back as a consequence.

    It’s true: I was taking the piss from you for what I deemed (rightly or wrongly) to be a bit of pearl-clutching on your part. I appreciate the olive branch, and I reciprocate; it’s all good in the hood, down yonder in the holler.

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  287. J1234 says:
    @Joe Schmoe
    They are also often short due to a flatter height distribution curve. The black height average is very slightly lower than the white average, pretty much negligible difference, but whites are more likely to be closer to the average.

    They are also often short due to a flatter height distribution curve. The black height average is very slightly lower than the white average, pretty much negligible difference, but whites are more likely to be closer to the average.

    Interesting. I didn’t know that. Thanks.
    - J

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  288. Toddy Cat says:
    @The Z Blog
    Perhaps we should hire a Handicapper General who will force the tall to stoop or maybe remove a few of the vertebrae to make them shorter. Of course, it would mean stretching the short, which would be amusing. Not so much for midgets, but perhaps they would be declared pets, like pygmies are for Bantus.

    We can't let our inequality divide us!

    Harrison Bergeron, please pick up the white courtesy phone.

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  289. BB753 says:
    @Svigor
    OT:

    Irvine Man Charged With Anti-Semitic Hate Crimes After Being Turned In By Family Member

    This one is interesting. One might suppose that unless the jury is heavily Jewish, the prosecution might be hindered by the fact that the guy apparently didn't commit any actual crimes. Which is the most salient thing I can find about this story that Drudge thought deserved national attention.

    A shame! In exogamic populations, you can’t even trust your own family!

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  290. MBlanc46 says:

    When Mme B and I were traveling in the UK last summer, I saw a periodical trumpeting an article advocating that women give up preferring taller men. The word “heightism” or something like it was used. Fat chance, I thought. Women want dominant men, and height contributes to dominance.

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  291. Mitleser says:

    Some people are concerned.

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