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Why Are Fewer Americans Moving to Boomtowns?
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From the Atlantic:

If Declining Towns ‘Deserve to Die,’ Where Should Their Residents Go?
Some economists and pundits claim Americans aren’t moving enough, but how people should respond to that is unclear.

BRIAN ALEXANDER 10:32 AM ET BUSINESS

In 2011, economists from the Federal Reserve and the University of Notre Dame issued a working paper called “Internal Migration in the United States.” In it, they concluded that “internal migration has fallen noticeably since the 1980s, reversing increases from earlier in the century.” In other words, Americans are moving less than they used to.

In that paper, and in research since, it’s been shown that the decline in migration holds up across the board, from high-school and college graduates to dropouts. Wealthier people are moving less than they used to, and so are poorer people. Migration from both distressed areas and prosperous areas has declined.

Researchers have resisted coming to any definite conclusions about what underlies this decreased mobility.

I did a text search but didn’t see the words “immigration” or “immigrant” in this Atlantic article, even though the huge rise in immigration obviously plays a role in the decline in internal migration by American citizens. If somebody is coming from abroad to make use of America, they are likely to move to a location in America with a booming economy. Thus, the flow of immigrants to American boomtowns drive down wages and drive up rents, making moving to boomtowns less economically rewarding for Americans.

Something like an exception that proves the rule was the boom a half decade ago in working outdoors in the new energy fields of North Dakota. They were so far from the Mexican border, so few immigrants had any connections in North Dakota, and working outdoors in winter is so uncomfortable for immigrants from the tropical world that internal migration by Americans supplied most of the labor. And, thus, these American workers therefore had to be paid quite well due to lack of immigrant competition.

 
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  1. They were so far from the Mexican border, so few immigrants had any connections in North Dakota, and working outdoors in winter is so uncomfortable for immigrants from the tropical world that internal migration by Americans supplied most of the labor. And, thus, these American workers therefore had to be paid quite well due to lack of immigrant competition.

    I remember you’re documenting the series of NY Times hit-pieces on that phenomenon. You’ll recall Mencken’s old jab at Puritanism: the haunting fear that someone, somewhere might be happy. Liberalism appears to be the haunting fear that some white man, somewhere might be well-paid.

    Read More
    • Agree: Ivy, Clyde, 27 year old, AndrewR
    • Replies: @Rod1963
    Also boom towns are expensive to live in as are most urban areas. Unless you make real good money, or lived there before the boom times, you live in a dump or in your car. This is why cops, firemen, teachers and all those infrastructure people live on the outskirts of major cities. It's simply too expensive to do otherwise and you don't get much for your money if you live in boom town proper.

    What's happening in silicon Valley is typical, even geeks making a $140k + are forced to 2+ hour daily commutes or living in a shared apartment.

    Of course immigration have made things much worse across the country as these people soak up all the affordable joints and make them uninhabitable to whites in the process.

    But the executive and CEO class who promote immigration don't care because they're so rich they can live anywhere.
    , @Clyde

    Liberalism appears to be the haunting fear that some white man, somewhere might be well-paid.
     
    And they hate hate hate (thanks Whiskey!) Vladimir Putin because he is the strongest white man governing a white nation. He is anti-gay and a climate change non-believer. Thus the feminists and their weak tea male acolytes who govern Europe hate BadVlad too, and accused him of hacking the French elections.
    , @27 year old
    >Liberalism appears to be the haunting fear that some white man, somewhere might be well-paid

    Sadly not just liberalism, the "conservative" side is exactly the same on this issue. My boomer Dad never misses a chance to complain about "overpaid" union workers.
    , @Chuck
    "Liberals" drive a hard bargain?

    That's an anti-semitic canard.
    , @fitzGetty
    ... why is that million man Somali influx so keen on Minnesota ...?...
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  2. Jefferson says:

    “Something like an exception that proves the rule was the boom a half decade ago in working outdoors in the new energy fields of North Dakota. They were so far from the Mexican border, so few immigrants had any connections in North Dakota, and working outdoors in winter is so uncomfortable for immigrants from the tropical world that internal migration by Americans supplied most of the labor. And, thus, these American workers therefore had to be paid quite well due to lack of immigrant competition.”

    Central Americans and Mexicans would have no problem being paid only $10 dollars an hour to work in the energy fields of North Dakota. But the Blanquitos would never work for such low slave wages to do such grueling physical labor. Pro-open borders Lefties hate the fact that so many blue collar Republican leaning Blanquitos cashed in on the oil boom in North Dakota.

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  3. If somebody is coming from abroad to make use of America….

    America: The Land of Under-Picked Pockets Simply Going to Waste

    Read More
    • Replies: @Buck Turgidson
    Does it not say in the Constitution that the nation was founded to ensure that anyone in the world should be able to move here and get welfare and otherwise take the taxpayers to the cleaners?

    Maybe the patriots at the WSJ can propose another new Constitutional amendment:
    "Toilet paper sales shall increase into perpetuity."
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  4. Rod1963 says:
    @The Anti-Gnostic

    They were so far from the Mexican border, so few immigrants had any connections in North Dakota, and working outdoors in winter is so uncomfortable for immigrants from the tropical world that internal migration by Americans supplied most of the labor. And, thus, these American workers therefore had to be paid quite well due to lack of immigrant competition.
     
    I remember you're documenting the series of NY Times hit-pieces on that phenomenon. You'll recall Mencken's old jab at Puritanism: the haunting fear that someone, somewhere might be happy. Liberalism appears to be the haunting fear that some white man, somewhere might be well-paid.

    Also boom towns are expensive to live in as are most urban areas. Unless you make real good money, or lived there before the boom times, you live in a dump or in your car. This is why cops, firemen, teachers and all those infrastructure people live on the outskirts of major cities. It’s simply too expensive to do otherwise and you don’t get much for your money if you live in boom town proper.

    What’s happening in silicon Valley is typical, even geeks making a $140k + are forced to 2+ hour daily commutes or living in a shared apartment.

    Of course immigration have made things much worse across the country as these people soak up all the affordable joints and make them uninhabitable to whites in the process.

    But the executive and CEO class who promote immigration don’t care because they’re so rich they can live anywhere.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Jefferson
    What’s happening in silicon Valley is typical, even geeks making a $140k + are forced to 2+ hour daily commutes or living in a shared apartment."

    I read that some Silicon Valley employees live as far away as Sacramento. Anybody here on The Unz who has ever lived in Northern California know that it is quite far a commute if you have to do it 5 days a week.
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  5. Lot says:

    Mongolia could be a source of North Dakota immigrant workers. However, they had a now-busted resource boom at the same time as the ND boom that kept the hordes fully employed.

    I met my first Mongol when one picked me up for a long Uber ride at the Norman Y Mineta airport in San Jose. He said he liked both the food and weather better in California, and he left the country after his father’s trucking business could no longer employ him. His English was excellent for somone who had arrived a few months prior.

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  6. Spud Boy says:

    Could also be that welfare payments allow people to stay in the same economically depressed areas, while if they they had to work, they’d be forced to relocate to greener pastures.
    .
    .

    Read More
    • Replies: @Daniel H
    >>Could also be that welfare payments allow people to stay in the same economically depressed areas, while if they they had to work, they’d be forced to relocate to greener pastures.

    Wow. You are so detached from reality. Welfare in the USA is hardly a disincentive to work. Basically, the only way to qualify for welfare is to be a single mother with children. Even then, the payments are paltry. You believe all the bullshit that the Reaganites were throwing around in the 1970s and 80. Welfare is not the problem.
    , @ben tillman

    Could also be that welfare payments allow people to stay in the same economically depressed areas, while if they they had to work, they’d be forced to relocate to greener pastures.
     
    No doubt that's a factor.
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  7. Every single “good” that lefties\liberals claim to value is made worse by mass immigration
    – employment
    – wages
    – income equality
    – the welfare state
    – public schools
    – educational achievement
    – sprawl
    – pressure on natural resources
    – sustainability
    – climate change
    – open space
    – congestion
    – housing affordability
    – “gender equality”
    – LBGTQRSTUV stuff
    – race relations
    – community

    Except it ramps up “diversity” and hence need for continual tedious state intervention and the vote for the parasite party. And best of all jams “diversity” up the white gentile male’s ass and tears up his nation. And tearing up gentile nations is so darn terrific that losing all those other “goods” is perfectly tolerable. Diversity über alles.

    Read More
    • Replies: @fitzGetty
    ... the list omits Productivity - why is that, lads ?
    , @Numinous
    Based on your list, one would think conservatives (and reactionaries) would be thrilled by mass immigration. Yet they aren't.
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  8. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer

    People who don’t “just move”… tend to be small-C conservatives…

    http://nypost.com/2017/05/13/why-working-class-america-voted-with-their-middle-finger/

    Read More
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  9. asdf says:

    “Some economists and pundits claim Americans aren’t moving enough, but how people should respond to that is unclear”

    Let’s see – why aren’t people willing to leave their communities (which, God forbid, some of them are actually attached to), to work for unlivable wages? I mean, third world immigrants can do it. Lol!

    Obviously, we need a new people.

    Read More
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  10. Anon says: • Disclaimer

    In the past, boom-towns used to means lots of working class jobs.

    Now, it means high-skill labor, and many people don’t have them.

    Boom-towns also have service labor, but those are filled up by immigrants who are hungrier.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Dr. X

    In the past, boom-towns used to means lots of working class jobs.

    Now, it means high-skill labor, and many people don’t have them.
     
    Employers bitch about lack of skills, but none of them are willing to train employees like they used to. When my father started in the auto industry with a high school diploma in the mid-1960s, the Big Three automaker he worked for sent him to night school as part of his apprenticeship to learn the skills necessary for his trade. Of course he got paid union wage and benefits while doing so. They then gave him a good-paying job, with benefits, for the next four decades.

    Find me an employer willing to do that today. I'll send him a resume.
    , @MarkinLA
    Now, it means high-skill labor, and many people don’t have them.

    And yet only half the people who graduate with a degree in STEM get a job using their degree. Maybe it isn't the skill level of the people.
    , @ben tillman

    In the past, boom-towns used to means lots of working class jobs.

    Now, it means high-skill labor, and many people don’t have them.
     
    It still means lots of construction jobs, and 95% of them go to illegals.
    , @Alden
    A lot of high skill jobs are taken by Indian and Asian immigrants.
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  11. Clyde says:
    @The Anti-Gnostic

    They were so far from the Mexican border, so few immigrants had any connections in North Dakota, and working outdoors in winter is so uncomfortable for immigrants from the tropical world that internal migration by Americans supplied most of the labor. And, thus, these American workers therefore had to be paid quite well due to lack of immigrant competition.
     
    I remember you're documenting the series of NY Times hit-pieces on that phenomenon. You'll recall Mencken's old jab at Puritanism: the haunting fear that someone, somewhere might be happy. Liberalism appears to be the haunting fear that some white man, somewhere might be well-paid.

    Liberalism appears to be the haunting fear that some white man, somewhere might be well-paid.

    And they hate hate hate (thanks Whiskey!) Vladimir Putin because he is the strongest white man governing a white nation. He is anti-gay and a climate change non-believer. Thus the feminists and their weak tea male acolytes who govern Europe hate BadVlad too, and accused him of hacking the French elections.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Romanian
    I wouldn't say he is a non-believer, but that, should global warming be real, Russia stands to gain the most through the increased habitability of Siberia, agricultural opportunities, transport routes through the North etc. It would be basically terraforming Siberia.
    , @Chuck
    DAS RITE!

    Putin also puts envious jew haters in their place!

    http://forward.com/news/breaking-news/197664/holocaust-deniers-in-russia-now-face-five-years-in/

    FREE SPEECH BTFO!
    , @Lex
    Russia is not THAT white. And it's not getting better.
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  12. Whenever you hear liberals talk about “sustainable communities”, don’t believe a word of it. They like “beautiful churn”.

    Read More
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  13. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer

    Cost. The residents of boomtowns restrict housing supply growth through government regulations to extract rents from prospective newcomers.

    Read More
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  14. JackOH says:

    “Thus, the flow of immigrants to American boomtowns drive down wages and drive up rents, making moving to boomtowns less economically rewarding for Americans.”

    Low wages, high costs? Yep, that’ll makes booms look not all that great. A neighborhood kid and college grad was offered a chance to interview for a big city job that offered triple the minimum wage he was earning here. He declined. He was living at home, and his research told him he’d likely be no better off leaving. I’ve heard plenty of stories where more isn’t more enough.

    I had a relative who, along with her boy friend, were earning around $25 thousand a year in NYC in the early 1970s, but lived modestly in a studio apartment in Yonkers. How much would you have to earn today to equal what they earned? (They spent freely, mostly on eating out, bar-hopping, some travel, and so on.)

    We had a fracking boomlet here, but, despite pressure from local political leaders, I think most hires were laid-off, experienced workers from oil patch states who already knew the work.

    Unless I’m missing something, yesteryear’s cattle calls for American labor are over.

    Read More
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  15. Anon says: • Disclaimer

    Not quite right.

    Read More
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  16. Working oilfields is not like working agricultural fields.

    Latin Americans can’t really compete with Americans. American men tend to be bigger, stronger, smarter and read and understand English well enough to comply with OSHA and other safety standards. Incompetence is extremely dangerous in a drilling operation. And size does matter. So, I am not surprised that when a business is paying more for labor, they are going to be able to get better labor than marginally literate little Mexicans. Bigger stronger smarter Mexicans are not working in the oil patch because they can get a better deal both in Mexico and in the USA.

    Read More
    • Agree: Lot
    • Replies: @JohnnyGeo
    Agree. I think the whiteness of the oil boom workforce is more demand-driven than supply-driven.
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  17. ic1000 says:

    > American [oil patch workers in North Dakota] therefore had to be paid quite well due to lack of immigrant competition.

    It would have been better if the oil and gas had been left to rot under the fields. Americans earning good money for doing jobs in America — that sets a terrible precedent.

    Read More
    • Replies: @27 year old
    >Americans earning good money for doing jobs in America — that sets a terrible precedent.

    It's just not who we are.
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  18. After Hurricane Katrina hit New Orleans in 2005, there was a massive need for labor to rebuild the region.

    So where did contractors look for laborers? Among the displaced people of New Orleans? Maybe somewhere in Lousiana? Maybe in a neighboring state?

    They brought in workers from south of the border. El president George Bush waived business regulations that made it mandatory to verify a worker’s immigration status, which allowed contractors to illegally hire large numbers of foreign Latino workers.

    About half weren’t fully paid for their work. A lot of contractors, once they were finished with the laborers, skipped town.

    This is just one what’s been happening on a large scale since the 1980s.

    Read More
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  19. @The Anti-Gnostic

    They were so far from the Mexican border, so few immigrants had any connections in North Dakota, and working outdoors in winter is so uncomfortable for immigrants from the tropical world that internal migration by Americans supplied most of the labor. And, thus, these American workers therefore had to be paid quite well due to lack of immigrant competition.
     
    I remember you're documenting the series of NY Times hit-pieces on that phenomenon. You'll recall Mencken's old jab at Puritanism: the haunting fear that someone, somewhere might be happy. Liberalism appears to be the haunting fear that some white man, somewhere might be well-paid.

    >Liberalism appears to be the haunting fear that some white man, somewhere might be well-paid

    Sadly not just liberalism, the “conservative” side is exactly the same on this issue. My boomer Dad never misses a chance to complain about “overpaid” union workers.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Clyde

    Sadly not just liberalism, the “conservative” side is exactly the same on this issue. My boomer Dad never misses a chance to complain about “overpaid” union workers.
     
    This is a class thing. Your dad of yore thinks he is in England and above the lower classes, while the current year reality is the horse mounted Injuns have surrounded the wagon train, are circling, and are firing the rifles they bought from the white traders (traitors). The same spergy informed classism is why the uppers in England stood aside while the Pakistani Muslims raped thousands of fair lower class English girls, ruining their reproductive potentials.
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  20. @ic1000
    > American [oil patch workers in North Dakota] therefore had to be paid quite well due to lack of immigrant competition.

    It would have been better if the oil and gas had been left to rot under the fields. Americans earning good money for doing jobs in America -- that sets a terrible precedent.

    >Americans earning good money for doing jobs in America — that sets a terrible precedent.

    It’s just not who we are.

    Read More
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  21. prosa123 says: • Website
    Read More
    • Replies: @Not Raul
    Fourth child after his vasectomy . . .

    I guess stupid, well-paid dudes are more likely to get cucked.

    https://youtu.be/1q2urUi9KMw

    Maybe the Cromartie Index should include extra points for children conceived after a vasectomy.

    , @res
    Fourth child after his vasectomy. Surely a man with that many children by that many women has heard of paternity tests?! Although I suppose medical malpractice is an alternative.

    Given that his NFL career seems to be just about over, I wonder how long it will take for child support to consume his savings?
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  22. Not Raul says:

    The oil boom in ND didn’t actually provide a huge number of jobs relative to the national number of working age adults, and the large (percentage wise) net increase in workers only lasted a few years.

    It’s much harder to relocate a two income household than a one income household. Two people need to find new jobs rather than one.

    Read More
    • Agree: Chrisnonymous
    • Replies: @CAL
    That is an excellent point and I've never thought of that.
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  23. Not Raul says:
    @prosa123
    You'll have to recalculate the Cromartie Index:
    https://sports.yahoo.com/news/antonio-cromarties-wife-says-shes-pregnant-14th-child-165725005.html

    Fourth child after his vasectomy . . .

    I guess stupid, well-paid dudes are more likely to get cucked.

    Maybe the Cromartie Index should include extra points for children conceived after a vasectomy.

    Read More
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  24. jim jones says:

    Maybe Americans are so geographically challenged they cannot find their way to greener pastures:

    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-05-15/1746-american-adults-were-asked-point-out-north-korea-map-was-result

    Read More
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  25. res says:
    @prosa123
    You'll have to recalculate the Cromartie Index:
    https://sports.yahoo.com/news/antonio-cromarties-wife-says-shes-pregnant-14th-child-165725005.html

    Fourth child after his vasectomy. Surely a man with that many children by that many women has heard of paternity tests?! Although I suppose medical malpractice is an alternative.

    Given that his NFL career seems to be just about over, I wonder how long it will take for child support to consume his savings?

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  26. Dr. X says:
    @Anon
    In the past, boom-towns used to means lots of working class jobs.

    Now, it means high-skill labor, and many people don't have them.

    Boom-towns also have service labor, but those are filled up by immigrants who are hungrier.

    In the past, boom-towns used to means lots of working class jobs.

    Now, it means high-skill labor, and many people don’t have them.

    Employers bitch about lack of skills, but none of them are willing to train employees like they used to. When my father started in the auto industry with a high school diploma in the mid-1960s, the Big Three automaker he worked for sent him to night school as part of his apprenticeship to learn the skills necessary for his trade. Of course he got paid union wage and benefits while doing so. They then gave him a good-paying job, with benefits, for the next four decades.

    Find me an employer willing to do that today. I’ll send him a resume.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Nico
    In France a lot of IT consulting companies actually are willing to provide such training for non-engineers to become software engineers. However, French engineers benefit from a certain measure of protection from competition in that Francophone engineers abroad are difficult to recruit: most software engineers speak English, even if French was their first or second language, and would prefer to move to North America or Britain. (So do many newly-minted French engineers.)

    Employers will provide career retraining if they are convinced they don't have any other choice.

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  27. Travis says:

    About 25 million young adults – 35% of all 18- to 34-year-olds – live in their parents’ homes. At the state level, New Jersey had the highest percentage of millennials ― a whopping 47 percent ― still living at home. Connecticut and New York ― where more than 40 percent of that segment are still living with mom and dad ― trail close behind.

    30 year olds today are more likely to live with their parents than than with a spouse. The biggest problem seems to be getting 30-year-olds to move out of their parents home or get a spouse. If Millennials lack the ability to get their own apartment, how do we expect them to move to another state.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Jefferson
    "About 25 million young adults – 35% of all 18- to 34-year-olds – live in their parents’ homes. At the state level, New Jersey had the highest percentage of millennials ― a whopping 47 percent ― still living at home. Connecticut and New York ― where more than 40 percent of that segment are still living with mom and dad ― trail close behind."

    The percentage of Millennials who still live with their parents is much higher in blue states than in red states because the cost of living on your own is nuch higher in blue states. Liberalism does not create affordable housing.

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  28. Romanian says: • Website
    @Clyde

    Liberalism appears to be the haunting fear that some white man, somewhere might be well-paid.
     
    And they hate hate hate (thanks Whiskey!) Vladimir Putin because he is the strongest white man governing a white nation. He is anti-gay and a climate change non-believer. Thus the feminists and their weak tea male acolytes who govern Europe hate BadVlad too, and accused him of hacking the French elections.

    I wouldn’t say he is a non-believer, but that, should global warming be real, Russia stands to gain the most through the increased habitability of Siberia, agricultural opportunities, transport routes through the North etc. It would be basically terraforming Siberia.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Percy Gryce
    Yes, always look on the bright side of AGW.

    Just think about the temperate paradises that Wisconsin, Minnesota, Alberta, and Saskatchewan will become.

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  29. …They were so far from the Mexican border, so few immigrants had any connections in North Dakota

    Maybe not, but North Dakota and her neighbors have been hosting migrant workers for decades. In Minnesota thirty years ago, a farmer’s kid was more likely to know a Mexican or Mexican-American than a city kid was.

    The Great Flood of ’97 temporarily closed the Grand Forks INS office, so their officers were sent to the Twin Cities for something to do. I caught a couple of them speaking to each other in Spanish.

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  30. MarkinLA says:
    @Anon
    In the past, boom-towns used to means lots of working class jobs.

    Now, it means high-skill labor, and many people don't have them.

    Boom-towns also have service labor, but those are filled up by immigrants who are hungrier.

    Now, it means high-skill labor, and many people don’t have them.

    And yet only half the people who graduate with a degree in STEM get a job using their degree. Maybe it isn’t the skill level of the people.

    Read More
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  31. Clyde says:
    @27 year old
    >Liberalism appears to be the haunting fear that some white man, somewhere might be well-paid

    Sadly not just liberalism, the "conservative" side is exactly the same on this issue. My boomer Dad never misses a chance to complain about "overpaid" union workers.

    Sadly not just liberalism, the “conservative” side is exactly the same on this issue. My boomer Dad never misses a chance to complain about “overpaid” union workers.

    This is a class thing. Your dad of yore thinks he is in England and above the lower classes, while the current year reality is the horse mounted Injuns have surrounded the wagon train, are circling, and are firing the rifles they bought from the white traders (traitors). The same spergy informed classism is why the uppers in England stood aside while the Pakistani Muslims raped thousands of fair lower class English girls, ruining their reproductive potentials.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Alden
    Your dad's complaints about overpaid union workers is one of the many reasons I'm not a conservative but a White Nationalist.
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  32. BTW, a couple of Dutch journalists have published a book– over here, in English– claiming that the world’s “rustbelts” are chock-full of the smartest people, and will be the motherlode of the next wave of immigration.

    Probably the most important Rust Belt figure in the tech boom, even more than Larry Page, is Marc Andreessen, whose mother worked for Land’s End. He created both Mosaic and Netscape, and at one time was responsible for 80% of the Web browser market.

    Steve Jobs’s birth mother and adoptive father were both from America’s Dairyland, too. So by nature or nuture, he’s half-cheesehead.

    But both these guys did their thing in California. Will the next innovation wave be from Californians working in Oshkosh, Appleton, and Racine?

    Read More
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  33. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer

    Boomtowns in scenic areas also attract foreign hot money real estate cash buyers.

    Look at the home sales data and a lot of it is not Americans buying with a traditional 30yr loan but foreigners paying in cash.

    Never underestimate the power of the real estate lobby. The Kushners and their hb-5 China scam are just the top of the pyramid. All around the country these realtor/developer assholes have fixed the zoning laws in order to thwart competition and protect vested interests.

    Pretty sure real estate is the number one proven path to billionaire oligarch status …

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  34. Immigrants from old cultures can smell economic rent half a world away, which is why Silicon Valley is now majority immigrants from Asia — primarily India. The network effects of the Internet was the big pile of smelly economic rent. The guys who should have been taking executive positions in Silicon Valley were kicked out when the dotcon bubble collapsed circa 2000 so that Brahmins could escape India’s affirmative action programs and take those positions with the Fortune 500. Their gift to Americans was to harvest network effect economic rents that had come to fruition after being tended by Americans for decades of labor in the vineyards.

    This kind of sabotage of civilization isn’t “sabotage” so much as it is exploiting a natural tendency of civilization to self-destruct:

    Network effect centralization.

    The network effect is the primary economy of scale that makes civilization out-compete other forms of social organization. If you don’t understand the central importance of the network effect, it doesn’t matter if you have the exceptional encyclopaedic knowledge, analysis and synthesis of a Carroll Quigley — you will be intellectually impotent to preserve civilization against the weakness that is the flip-side of this foundational strength.

    Network effect wealth is, by definition, an _externality_. To use an example Steve may relate to:

    When someone back in the early 1980s bought an IBM PC, including a copy of MS-DOS, it didn’t matter that MS-DOS was quite possibly the worst possible OS for the time. What they were _really_ buying was a network effect connecting software developers to software consumers via the MS-DOS platform. Similar externalities drive up land prices in urban areas. Simply dismissing these kinds of unearned centralizations of wealth as “naturally” dealt with by competition coming along _eventually_ that subverts the old network effects with new ones is _precisely_ the way civilizations fall. And this kind of studied ignorance of the network effect pervades so-called “libertarian philosophy”.

    Indeed, if one gets _serious_ about preserving civilization, one accepts the fact that “the evolution of civilizations” involves multiple cycles during which some entities persist across cycles and others don’t — leading to evolved entities that exploit these cycles. Since network effects centralize wealth, and wealth leads to greater evolutionary viability, one would expect certain evolved entities to actively oppose recognition of network effects so that the wealth can be captured. This is exactly what the “economic theories” of virtually all schools of economics do, from Marxists to Libertarians.

    If you want to preserve civilization, you stop taxing all economic activities, eliminate “the state” as we know it and, instead, charge network effect wealth a use fee that is distributed, _directly_ to the able bodied men — evenly — as a dividend of a mutual insurance company of which they are members. Any social functions (such as delivering social goods, having children, education, military, police enforcment, etc.) then become functions of the free market.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Chuck
    This sort of thing has been happening for a long time:

    http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/246630/jewish/Jacob-and-His-Family-Go-To-Egypt.htm
    , @Bill

    If you don’t understand the central importance of the network effect, it doesn’t matter if you have the exceptional encyclopaedic knowledge, analysis and synthesis of a Carroll Quigley — you will be intellectually impotent to preserve civilization against the weakness that is the flip-side of this foundational strength.
     
    True, but being intellectually potent really isn't the thing. You can out-reproduce outsiders without understanding much of anything. You can violently expel outsiders without understanding much of anything. I doubt most Indians have any deep understanding of connections between network economies and civilization, for example. Grab, grab, fuck, fight works pretty well.

    If you want to preserve civilization, you stop taxing all economic activities, eliminate “the state” as we know it and, instead, charge network effect wealth a use fee that is distributed, _directly_ to the able bodied men — evenly — as a dividend . . .
     
    Sure, we could do some untried utopian idea. That usually works out well. Or, we could just revert to some form of social organization which has worked in the past.
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  35. J1234 says:

    A good article by the Atlantic. The mythology of “Americans will move anywhere,” has the same root as the mythology of “we’re a nation of immigrants.” Yes it was true at one time, but this is the fundamental idea: Americans are so socially malleable that they’re impervious to the very natural and very human phenomenon of culture. Proponents of this idea – left and right – imply that while we don’t have deep roots (or seek continuity) in culture, we do (somehow) have deep roots and seek continuity in upscale transient living and demographic change. People on the right often frame it in terms of economy and culture being pretty much the same thing – capitalism and a high standard of living are the true ties that bind. An absurd idea, to say the least.

    True, Americans were willing to move more way back when. California, Alaska and the American southwest were once seen as promised lands. They sure aren’t anymore. That was mythology, too.

    Read More
    • Replies: @EriK
    times change
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q9xL_OVvPn0
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  36. Daniel H says:
    @Spud Boy
    Could also be that welfare payments allow people to stay in the same economically depressed areas, while if they they had to work, they'd be forced to relocate to greener pastures.
    .
    .

    >>Could also be that welfare payments allow people to stay in the same economically depressed areas, while if they they had to work, they’d be forced to relocate to greener pastures.

    Wow. You are so detached from reality. Welfare in the USA is hardly a disincentive to work. Basically, the only way to qualify for welfare is to be a single mother with children. Even then, the payments are paltry. You believe all the bullshit that the Reaganites were throwing around in the 1970s and 80. Welfare is not the problem.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Jim Don Bob
    Disagree. SSD has replaced long term unemployment benefits in many places. Some statistics, which now escape me, say that 6% of West Virginians are on long term SSD.
    , @Jay Fink
    You must be detached from reality if you aren't aware of how huge SS disability has become. That combined with food stamps, Medicaid etc gives someone a better standard of living than many working people have. Also the welfare that you are so defensive of has killed off the American family in all but the highest social classes.
    , @Autochthon
    Jim Bob and Jay have points, but the last time I was without a pot to piss in or a window to throw it out of, I was denied any benefits whatsoever, including even food stamps, although I was unemployed and sleeping on friend's couches when I could, and the streets when I could not. The smug bastards at the county office basically told me because I was a man and had no children I didn't matter. I distinctly remember from the paperwork that, had I been a recent arrival from Haiti (there'd been a hurricane or some such) I could have qualified for cash and prizes. Being as I was only an American combat veteran who'd until recently paid as much as one third of his earnings into taxes, I could, of course, only go to Hell.

    I recall the entire afternoon with glacial clarity; I'd walked ten miles one-way in a Georgia summer to be told all this. It was in that moment I began to despise the American government, as it is presently constituted, with a smoldering rage.

    Perhaps you are both right: welfare is a hoot and a holler for scam artists, but a horrorshow at best for anyone approaching the process honestly for help weathering a bad run.

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  37. Anon says: • Disclaimer

    One reason could be welfare reaches into every town.

    In pre-welfare era, people moved to wherever jobs were to survive.

    But now, you can just wait for welfare check in your doom-town.

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  38. Nico says:
    @Dr. X

    In the past, boom-towns used to means lots of working class jobs.

    Now, it means high-skill labor, and many people don’t have them.
     
    Employers bitch about lack of skills, but none of them are willing to train employees like they used to. When my father started in the auto industry with a high school diploma in the mid-1960s, the Big Three automaker he worked for sent him to night school as part of his apprenticeship to learn the skills necessary for his trade. Of course he got paid union wage and benefits while doing so. They then gave him a good-paying job, with benefits, for the next four decades.

    Find me an employer willing to do that today. I'll send him a resume.

    In France a lot of IT consulting companies actually are willing to provide such training for non-engineers to become software engineers. However, French engineers benefit from a certain measure of protection from competition in that Francophone engineers abroad are difficult to recruit: most software engineers speak English, even if French was their first or second language, and would prefer to move to North America or Britain. (So do many newly-minted French engineers.)

    Employers will provide career retraining if they are convinced they don’t have any other choice.

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  39. Decline in internal migration is probably from people staying in smaller cities rather than small towns, which are still depopulating fast.

    One thing that’s overlooked: maybe the quality of life is better in mid-sized and small cities than it used to be? I mean, you get the same coffee shops, ethnic restaurants, shopping, high-end grocery stores, recreation type opportunities in pretty much every decent place of 20,000 or more people. Why move somewhere with worse housing, (probably) more crime and more traffic for an only marginally better quality of life?

    And what about nepotism? It’s a lot more common than it used to be. With jobs scarce, connections are important and that basically compels you to stay close to where you grew up.

    If there is less internal migration it proves that the average American is more cynical than they used to be, which is probably a good thing. People rooted in long-standing communities are less manipulable in some ways.

    Read More
    • Replies: @RadicalCenter
    If you say "every decent place of ONE HUNDRED or TWO HUNDRED thousand people" instead of 20,000, you've got a point.
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  40. JackOH says:

    Did anyone else find the Atlantic article meaningless twaddle? Also, did anyone find it awkward that university professors, most of whom wish to be tenured for employment and income stability at one location, are wondering why more people aren’t loading the U-Haul for those dream jobs . . . somewhere?

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  41. @Spud Boy
    Could also be that welfare payments allow people to stay in the same economically depressed areas, while if they they had to work, they'd be forced to relocate to greener pastures.
    .
    .

    Could also be that welfare payments allow people to stay in the same economically depressed areas, while if they they had to work, they’d be forced to relocate to greener pastures.

    No doubt that’s a factor.

    Read More
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  42. @Anon
    In the past, boom-towns used to means lots of working class jobs.

    Now, it means high-skill labor, and many people don't have them.

    Boom-towns also have service labor, but those are filled up by immigrants who are hungrier.

    In the past, boom-towns used to means lots of working class jobs.

    Now, it means high-skill labor, and many people don’t have them.

    It still means lots of construction jobs, and 95% of them go to illegals.

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  43. No matter where you go there you are.

    Read More
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  44. Anon7 says:

    “If Declining Towns ‘Deserve to Die,’ Where Should Their Residents Go?”

    They deserve to die with their little towns, obviously. The Glorious Future is known, and is almost at hand. It’s brown, just so you know.

    Maybe the Democrats in Congress would support building walls around these towns, you know, just to make sure…

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  45. @Romanian
    I wouldn't say he is a non-believer, but that, should global warming be real, Russia stands to gain the most through the increased habitability of Siberia, agricultural opportunities, transport routes through the North etc. It would be basically terraforming Siberia.

    Yes, always look on the bright side of AGW.

    Just think about the temperate paradises that Wisconsin, Minnesota, Alberta, and Saskatchewan will become.

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  46. I thought about moving to Vegas in the early 2000s and to the Dakotas during the fracking & natural gas boom.

    In the end my risk aversion won out. And I’m thankful for Virginia in-state tuition.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Neoconned
    I was about to go to N Dakota in 2014 & do the fracking work. Had a spot on a Chevron crew & i was going to have a spot in a mancamp

    Then the price of oil collapsed. Im mot married and have no kids so it would jave been fine w me having an apt in a mancamp.

    In early 2015 i took a second job as a cook at the Dairy Queen two towns over. One of my fellow cooks had been working in Tioga ND.....

    i missed that gravy train by one lousy yr.....coulda made 100k
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  47. White guys are screwed.

    White guys are simply not allowed to build anything of their own and keep it for themselves and their posterity–towns, companies, universities, country clubs, neighborhoods, nations.

    Once that rule is in place … you’re screwed. You build something nice … other folks flock in to suck on it and in the process wreck it.

    Obviously the US had some issues from the get go because it’s innate diversity from slavery. But back in the day it was still ok for whites to have a white neighborhood or school or country club. No more. So now it’s an endless cycle of whites running off to here or there, having something nice for a bit, but it being taken\run down by other. (Many many neighborhoods and whole states like California have been built and abandoned.) And unlike blacks who really did not want to live in many white areas that were too cold, too rural or just too white, the Mexicans will follow whites anywhere. There is no place whites can go that they won’t follow.

    As a result the only safety is in wealth–living in your little bailiwick that’s just too darn expensive for the hoi polloi to pollute. And that’s just fine with “our” “elites”–living the good life in their little splendid paradises, with cheap compliant labor at their beck and call. For average white guys–well if you’re not loving your diverse dung heap you’re a racist and shouldn’t even be alive.

    Borders are the key to civilization and to any decent life for the common man.

    Read More
    • Agree: BB753, Sarah Toga
    • Replies: @Sarah Toga
    Step 1. Pass the Hart-Cellar 1965 Immigration Law for the purpose of bringing in anybody but whites.

    Step 2. Pass the 1965 so-called "Civil Rights" laws for the purpose of giving special favors, handouts, set asides to anybody but whites.

    Step 3. Use taxpayer money (mostly from whites) to create institutions that vilify, hunt down and punish everyone who merely questions Steps 1 or 2.
    , @Anonymous Nephew
    "White guys are simply not allowed to build anything of their own and keep it for themselves and their posterity–towns, companies, universities, country clubs, neighborhoods, nations."

    I've been doing a fair bit of travelling round England and Wales lately, and there are new houses being built in large numbers everywhere, from London (high-rises) through Midlands market towns, across to remotest West Wales, the depressed North-East, darkest East Anglia. The exodus of the natives escaping diversity continues apace. I often wonder how long it will be before there's a general realisation that they can't run for ever (except the rich).
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  48. @S. Anonyia
    Decline in internal migration is probably from people staying in smaller cities rather than small towns, which are still depopulating fast.

    One thing that's overlooked: maybe the quality of life is better in mid-sized and small cities than it used to be? I mean, you get the same coffee shops, ethnic restaurants, shopping, high-end grocery stores, recreation type opportunities in pretty much every decent place of 20,000 or more people. Why move somewhere with worse housing, (probably) more crime and more traffic for an only marginally better quality of life?

    And what about nepotism? It's a lot more common than it used to be. With jobs scarce, connections are important and that basically compels you to stay close to where you grew up.

    If there is less internal migration it proves that the average American is more cynical than they used to be, which is probably a good thing. People rooted in long-standing communities are less manipulable in some ways.

    If you say “every decent place of ONE HUNDRED or TWO HUNDRED thousand people” instead of 20,000, you’ve got a point.

    Read More
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  49. @Clark Westwood

    If somebody is coming from abroad to make use of America....
     
    America: The Land of Under-Picked Pockets Simply Going to Waste

    Does it not say in the Constitution that the nation was founded to ensure that anyone in the world should be able to move here and get welfare and otherwise take the taxpayers to the cleaners?

    Maybe the patriots at the WSJ can propose another new Constitutional amendment:
    “Toilet paper sales shall increase into perpetuity.”

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    • Replies: @GSR
    Exactly. The country was not founded so every peasant in the world could move here with twenty of their relatives.
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  50. Simon & Garfunkel were singing about the dead and dying in 1970 with My Little Town. Now they will have to give back those Grammy Awards.

    [Verse 1]
    In my little town
    I grew up believing
    God keeps His eye on us all
    And He used to lean upon me
    As I pledged allegiance to the wall
    Lord I recall
    My little town

    [Verse 2]
    Coming home after school
    Flying my bike past the gates
    Of the factories
    My mom doing the laundry
    Hanging our shirts
    In the dirty breeze

    [Verse 3]
    And after it rains
    There’s a rainbow
    And all of the colors are black
    It’s not that the colors aren’t there
    It’s just imagination they lack
    Everything’s the same

    [Chorus]
    Nothing but the dead and dying
    Back in my little town
    Nothing but the dead and dying
    Back in my little town

    [Verse 4]
    I never meant nothing
    I was Just my father’s son
    Saving my money
    Dreaming of glory
    Twitching like a finger
    On the trigger of a gun
    Leaving nothing but the dead and dying

    [Chorus]

    Read More
    • Replies: @Sarah Toga
    Paul Simon actually grew up in NYC.

    I guess he just had to denigrate fly-over country and all those evil church-going small-towners. It is a shame he mis-used his talent this way.

    By contrast, Frank Sinatra crooned the praises of NYC - but did not denigrate other places.
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  51. Chuck says:
    @The Anti-Gnostic

    They were so far from the Mexican border, so few immigrants had any connections in North Dakota, and working outdoors in winter is so uncomfortable for immigrants from the tropical world that internal migration by Americans supplied most of the labor. And, thus, these American workers therefore had to be paid quite well due to lack of immigrant competition.
     
    I remember you're documenting the series of NY Times hit-pieces on that phenomenon. You'll recall Mencken's old jab at Puritanism: the haunting fear that someone, somewhere might be happy. Liberalism appears to be the haunting fear that some white man, somewhere might be well-paid.

    “Liberals” drive a hard bargain?

    That’s an anti-semitic canard.

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  52. Chuck says:
    @Clyde

    Liberalism appears to be the haunting fear that some white man, somewhere might be well-paid.
     
    And they hate hate hate (thanks Whiskey!) Vladimir Putin because he is the strongest white man governing a white nation. He is anti-gay and a climate change non-believer. Thus the feminists and their weak tea male acolytes who govern Europe hate BadVlad too, and accused him of hacking the French elections.

    DAS RITE!

    Putin also puts envious jew haters in their place!

    http://forward.com/news/breaking-news/197664/holocaust-deniers-in-russia-now-face-five-years-in/

    FREE SPEECH BTFO!

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  53. Chuck says:
    @James Bowery
    Immigrants from old cultures can smell economic rent half a world away, which is why Silicon Valley is now majority immigrants from Asia -- primarily India. The network effects of the Internet was the big pile of smelly economic rent. The guys who should have been taking executive positions in Silicon Valley were kicked out when the dotcon bubble collapsed circa 2000 so that Brahmins could escape India's affirmative action programs and take those positions with the Fortune 500. Their gift to Americans was to harvest network effect economic rents that had come to fruition after being tended by Americans for decades of labor in the vineyards.

    This kind of sabotage of civilization isn't "sabotage" so much as it is exploiting a natural tendency of civilization to self-destruct:

    Network effect centralization.

    The network effect is the primary economy of scale that makes civilization out-compete other forms of social organization. If you don't understand the central importance of the network effect, it doesn't matter if you have the exceptional encyclopaedic knowledge, analysis and synthesis of a Carroll Quigley -- you will be intellectually impotent to preserve civilization against the weakness that is the flip-side of this foundational strength.

    Network effect wealth is, by definition, an _externality_. To use an example Steve may relate to:

    When someone back in the early 1980s bought an IBM PC, including a copy of MS-DOS, it didn't matter that MS-DOS was quite possibly the worst possible OS for the time. What they were _really_ buying was a network effect connecting software developers to software consumers via the MS-DOS platform. Similar externalities drive up land prices in urban areas. Simply dismissing these kinds of unearned centralizations of wealth as "naturally" dealt with by competition coming along _eventually_ that subverts the old network effects with new ones is _precisely_ the way civilizations fall. And this kind of studied ignorance of the network effect pervades so-called "libertarian philosophy".

    Indeed, if one gets _serious_ about preserving civilization, one accepts the fact that "the evolution of civilizations" involves multiple cycles during which some entities persist across cycles and others don't -- leading to evolved entities that exploit these cycles. Since network effects centralize wealth, and wealth leads to greater evolutionary viability, one would expect certain evolved entities to actively oppose recognition of network effects so that the wealth can be captured. This is exactly what the "economic theories" of virtually all schools of economics do, from Marxists to Libertarians.

    If you want to preserve civilization, you stop taxing all economic activities, eliminate "the state" as we know it and, instead, charge network effect wealth a use fee that is distributed, _directly_ to the able bodied men -- evenly -- as a dividend of a mutual insurance company of which they are members. Any social functions (such as delivering social goods, having children, education, military, police enforcment, etc.) then become functions of the free market.
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  54. One thing never mentioned is the cost of moving. It is insanely expensive.

    If you’re single and don’t have much stuff is not too bad but if you have a family it’s thousands of dollars. I made a halfway cross country move with one wife, one child and a one bedroom apartment’s worth of stuff, and it came to around $7000.

    If you have a support system, moving means you lose it. And unless you are going to make a lot more money, which is unlikely, it’s not economically viable.

    Read More
    • Agree: RadicalCenter
    • Replies: @Alden
    You're right about that. The capitalists loved it when it was easy for employees to move. But then they brought in immigrants which made it difficult for their disposable work force to move.
    , @Travis
    with 40% of Millennial males (20-35) living at home, they have even less reason to move. Today 30-year-olds are more likely top live with Mommy than a spouse.

    When I graduated Rutgers in 1992, 90% of my classmates were from New Jersey. Among my fellow Fraternity brothers graduating from 1990-1993 we knew of one who moved home after graduation. almost half of my Frat brothers who graduated during this time moved to another state. Today in New Jersey 50% of Millennial males live at home.

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  55. EriK says:
    @J1234
    A good article by the Atlantic. The mythology of "Americans will move anywhere," has the same root as the mythology of "we're a nation of immigrants." Yes it was true at one time, but this is the fundamental idea: Americans are so socially malleable that they're impervious to the very natural and very human phenomenon of culture. Proponents of this idea - left and right - imply that while we don't have deep roots (or seek continuity) in culture, we do (somehow) have deep roots and seek continuity in upscale transient living and demographic change. People on the right often frame it in terms of economy and culture being pretty much the same thing - capitalism and a high standard of living are the true ties that bind. An absurd idea, to say the least.

    True, Americans were willing to move more way back when. California, Alaska and the American southwest were once seen as promised lands. They sure aren't anymore. That was mythology, too.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=46mO7jx3JEw

    times change

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  56. @Daniel H
    >>Could also be that welfare payments allow people to stay in the same economically depressed areas, while if they they had to work, they’d be forced to relocate to greener pastures.

    Wow. You are so detached from reality. Welfare in the USA is hardly a disincentive to work. Basically, the only way to qualify for welfare is to be a single mother with children. Even then, the payments are paltry. You believe all the bullshit that the Reaganites were throwing around in the 1970s and 80. Welfare is not the problem.

    Disagree. SSD has replaced long term unemployment benefits in many places. Some statistics, which now escape me, say that 6% of West Virginians are on long term SSD.

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  57. @new handle
    Simon & Garfunkel were singing about the dead and dying in 1970 with My Little Town. Now they will have to give back those Grammy Awards.

    [Verse 1]
    In my little town
    I grew up believing
    God keeps His eye on us all
    And He used to lean upon me
    As I pledged allegiance to the wall
    Lord I recall
    My little town

    [Verse 2]
    Coming home after school
    Flying my bike past the gates
    Of the factories
    My mom doing the laundry
    Hanging our shirts
    In the dirty breeze

    [Verse 3]
    And after it rains
    There's a rainbow
    And all of the colors are black
    It's not that the colors aren't there
    It's just imagination they lack
    Everything's the same

    [Chorus]
    Nothing but the dead and dying
    Back in my little town
    Nothing but the dead and dying
    Back in my little town

    [Verse 4]
    I never meant nothing
    I was Just my father's son
    Saving my money
    Dreaming of glory
    Twitching like a finger
    On the trigger of a gun
    Leaving nothing but the dead and dying

    [Chorus]

    Paul Simon actually grew up in NYC.

    I guess he just had to denigrate fly-over country and all those evil church-going small-towners. It is a shame he mis-used his talent this way.

    By contrast, Frank Sinatra crooned the praises of NYC – but did not denigrate other places.

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  58. @AnotherDad
    White guys are screwed.

    White guys are simply not allowed to build anything of their own and keep it for themselves and their posterity--towns, companies, universities, country clubs, neighborhoods, nations.

    Once that rule is in place ... you're screwed. You build something nice ... other folks flock in to suck on it and in the process wreck it.

    Obviously the US had some issues from the get go because it's innate diversity from slavery. But back in the day it was still ok for whites to have a white neighborhood or school or country club. No more. So now it's an endless cycle of whites running off to here or there, having something nice for a bit, but it being taken\run down by other. (Many many neighborhoods and whole states like California have been built and abandoned.) And unlike blacks who really did not want to live in many white areas that were too cold, too rural or just too white, the Mexicans will follow whites anywhere. There is no place whites can go that they won't follow.

    As a result the only safety is in wealth--living in your little bailiwick that's just too darn expensive for the hoi polloi to pollute. And that's just fine with "our" "elites"--living the good life in their little splendid paradises, with cheap compliant labor at their beck and call. For average white guys--well if you're not loving your diverse dung heap you're a racist and shouldn't even be alive.

    Borders are the key to civilization and to any decent life for the common man.

    Step 1. Pass the Hart-Cellar 1965 Immigration Law for the purpose of bringing in anybody but whites.

    Step 2. Pass the 1965 so-called “Civil Rights” laws for the purpose of giving special favors, handouts, set asides to anybody but whites.

    Step 3. Use taxpayer money (mostly from whites) to create institutions that vilify, hunt down and punish everyone who merely questions Steps 1 or 2.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Henry Bowman
    Step 1. Create millions of poor, disenfranchised, economically stagnate White people

    Step 2. Said millions of pissed of whites get online and figure out how bad they have been screwed, by whom and why

    Step 3. Retake the GOP, crush the cucks, drive out the left and if all else fails Coup and Helicopter rides.
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  59. Anon says: • Disclaimer

    Read More
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  60. Double says:

    Another North Dakota like phenomenon was Washington DC itself, which in the post-recession era drew college grads from all over the US looking for government jobs that required a college degree, many of which also required American citizenship and thus making them immune to immigrant competition.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Henry Bowman
    Funny how they adore immigration and immigrant labor.....UNTIL it effects them personally.
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  61. Whiskey says: • Website

    This is what is known as a pre-revolutionary condition. Or the end of White flight. There is no more cheap, affordable loans for (Whites anyway) to move all over the country. Nepotistic networks from TV writing to Silicon Valley close off opportunity. Meanwhile the threat is constant of making what little the Middle and Working Class has, even less.

    Housing values going down through both Immavasion and Section 8. Schools essentially worthless, and private schooling a must. Public spaces ceded to those immavaders strong enough to hold them.

    What are young ambitious Young White Men without money, power, and connections (most of them) going to do? Upset the Apple Cart. The Alt-Right is young White men who were not included in the party (again, most of them). What are those afraid of losing everything and ending up as near-street people going to do? Again, vote for whoever promises to protect them against the downside. It sure as heck won’t be Oprah or Cory Booker (the two favorites for the Dems).

    Upper and Middle Class White women have been mostly protected against this, not so even Women who are working class, much less Working and Middle Class White men who are Public Enemy #1.

    [Related, the rapes and abuse of working and middle class White girls is a plus for Upper Class White women -- it removes female competitors and lets them feel thrills for the bad boys who did the violence. There is no end to the harm on a civilizational level of Upper Class White women unoccupied by children and family.]

    Read More
    • Replies: @RadicalCenter
    THOROUGHLY agree with your last sentence. I have worked for, worked with, and lived among such women, and they are not to be trusted.
    , @ben tillman

    [Related, the rapes and abuse of working and middle class White girls is a plus for Upper Class White women -- it removes female competitors and lets them feel thrills for the bad boys who did the violence.
     
    No.
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  62. Alden says:
    @Anon
    In the past, boom-towns used to means lots of working class jobs.

    Now, it means high-skill labor, and many people don't have them.

    Boom-towns also have service labor, but those are filled up by immigrants who are hungrier.

    A lot of high skill jobs are taken by Indian and Asian immigrants.

    Read More
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  63. Alden says:
    @Thrasymachus
    One thing never mentioned is the cost of moving. It is insanely expensive.

    If you're single and don't have much stuff is not too bad but if you have a family it's thousands of dollars. I made a halfway cross country move with one wife, one child and a one bedroom apartment's worth of stuff, and it came to around $7000.

    If you have a support system, moving means you lose it. And unless you are going to make a lot more money, which is unlikely, it's not economically viable.

    You’re right about that. The capitalists loved it when it was easy for employees to move. But then they brought in immigrants which made it difficult for their disposable work force to move.

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  64. How we should respond to economists and pundits who think they know better what we should be doing with our lives?

    The answer to this seems instinctively obvious and clear to me. Of course, it would be “unclear” to journalists who write for the Atlantic.

    Read More
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  65. Alden says:
    @Clyde

    Sadly not just liberalism, the “conservative” side is exactly the same on this issue. My boomer Dad never misses a chance to complain about “overpaid” union workers.
     
    This is a class thing. Your dad of yore thinks he is in England and above the lower classes, while the current year reality is the horse mounted Injuns have surrounded the wagon train, are circling, and are firing the rifles they bought from the white traders (traitors). The same spergy informed classism is why the uppers in England stood aside while the Pakistani Muslims raped thousands of fair lower class English girls, ruining their reproductive potentials.

    Your dad’s complaints about overpaid union workers is one of the many reasons I’m not a conservative but a White Nationalist.

    Read More
    • Agree: Autochthon
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  66. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer

    OT?

    https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2017-05-15/the-social-fabric-frays-the-patches-aren-t-obvious

    The Social Fabric Frays. The Patches Aren’t Obvious.

    Congress is trying to document the harm done as communities drift apart.

    “In Washington,” says Utah senator Mike Lee, “we measure GDP, we measure government outlays and revenues — all kind of things that are quantifiable and monitored like vital signs, blood pressure and heart rate. But we don’t always take the time to measure other things that are just as important to our life as a country.” One of those things is the state of America’s “associational life,” which is the topic of a new report from the senator’s staff on the Joint Economic Committee of Congress.

    The report sets the scene by invoking the titles of some high-profile books by Robert Putnam, Charles Murray and Yuval Levin: “There is a sense that our social fabric has seen better days. Leading thinkers have issued warnings that we are increasingly ‘bowling alone,’ ‘coming apart,’ and inhabiting a ‘fractured republic.’ At the heart of those warnings is a view that what happens in the middle layers of our society is vital to sustaining a free, prosperous, democratic, and pluralistic country.”

    What Lee is concerned about documenting is that this middle layer is thinning. Fewer Americans are getting married or living in families. We are going to religious services less often, and are less likely to consider ourselves members of a religious organization. We’re spending less time socializing with neighbors and co-workers, too. Voting rates have declined, and we’ve grown less likely to pay attention to news about government. We trust one another less: The percentage of Americans who thought most people could be trusted fell to 31 percent in 2016 from 46 percent in 1972, the report says, citing the General Social Survey.

    … Future reports from the project will explore how social capital relates to economic mobility and to deaths of despair (including opioid-related deaths). Those reports may well include policy recommendations. Lee has been an active proponent of criminal-justice reform, and the connection between that issue and the health of communities deserves its own report.

    Nothing diversity-related, in case you were wondering.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anonymous

    But Lee is not proposing a 10-point legislative plan to make civil society great again. The report cites, as an example of the importance of social capital, Megan McArdle’s recent article for Bloomberg View about the indispensable role the Mormon church has played in solving problems in his state. But Lee recognizes the limits of government power in this area. He tells me: “I certainly don’t want any government program that has as its object either encouraging or discouraging people from being religious. I do think people should be aware of the trends.”
     
    But we have a new religion called Diversity -- is it not having the same effect on social cohesion?
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  67. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @Anonymous
    OT?

    https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2017-05-15/the-social-fabric-frays-the-patches-aren-t-obvious


    The Social Fabric Frays. The Patches Aren't Obvious.

    Congress is trying to document the harm done as communities drift apart.

    “In Washington,” says Utah senator Mike Lee, “we measure GDP, we measure government outlays and revenues -- all kind of things that are quantifiable and monitored like vital signs, blood pressure and heart rate. But we don’t always take the time to measure other things that are just as important to our life as a country.” One of those things is the state of America’s “associational life,” which is the topic of a new report from the senator’s staff on the Joint Economic Committee of Congress.

    The report sets the scene by invoking the titles of some high-profile books by Robert Putnam, Charles Murray and Yuval Levin: “There is a sense that our social fabric has seen better days. Leading thinkers have issued warnings that we are increasingly ‘bowling alone,’ ‘coming apart,’ and inhabiting a ‘fractured republic.’ At the heart of those warnings is a view that what happens in the middle layers of our society is vital to sustaining a free, prosperous, democratic, and pluralistic country.”

    What Lee is concerned about documenting is that this middle layer is thinning. Fewer Americans are getting married or living in families. We are going to religious services less often, and are less likely to consider ourselves members of a religious organization. We’re spending less time socializing with neighbors and co-workers, too. Voting rates have declined, and we’ve grown less likely to pay attention to news about government. We trust one another less: The percentage of Americans who thought most people could be trusted fell to 31 percent in 2016 from 46 percent in 1972, the report says, citing the General Social Survey.

    ... Future reports from the project will explore how social capital relates to economic mobility and to deaths of despair (including opioid-related deaths). Those reports may well include policy recommendations. Lee has been an active proponent of criminal-justice reform, and the connection between that issue and the health of communities deserves its own report.

     

    Nothing diversity-related, in case you were wondering.

    But Lee is not proposing a 10-point legislative plan to make civil society great again. The report cites, as an example of the importance of social capital, Megan McArdle’s recent article for Bloomberg View about the indispensable role the Mormon church has played in solving problems in his state. But Lee recognizes the limits of government power in this area. He tells me: “I certainly don’t want any government program that has as its object either encouraging or discouraging people from being religious. I do think people should be aware of the trends.”

    But we have a new religion called Diversity — is it not having the same effect on social cohesion?

    Read More
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  68. @Sarah Toga
    Step 1. Pass the Hart-Cellar 1965 Immigration Law for the purpose of bringing in anybody but whites.

    Step 2. Pass the 1965 so-called "Civil Rights" laws for the purpose of giving special favors, handouts, set asides to anybody but whites.

    Step 3. Use taxpayer money (mostly from whites) to create institutions that vilify, hunt down and punish everyone who merely questions Steps 1 or 2.

    Step 1. Create millions of poor, disenfranchised, economically stagnate White people

    Step 2. Said millions of pissed of whites get online and figure out how bad they have been screwed, by whom and why

    Step 3. Retake the GOP, crush the cucks, drive out the left and if all else fails Coup and Helicopter rides.

    Read More
    • Agree: Sarah Toga
    • Replies: @Sarah Toga
    Now we're talkin' !
    Formulate action plans.
    Our think tanks never get beyond wonky navel-gazing and minutia. Let's roll up the proverbial sleeves and git 'er done.
    Boots on the ground. Our Historic American ground.
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  69. @Double
    Another North Dakota like phenomenon was Washington DC itself, which in the post-recession era drew college grads from all over the US looking for government jobs that required a college degree, many of which also required American citizenship and thus making them immune to immigrant competition.

    Funny how they adore immigration and immigrant labor…..UNTIL it effects them personally.

    Read More
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  70. Jay Fink says:
    @Daniel H
    >>Could also be that welfare payments allow people to stay in the same economically depressed areas, while if they they had to work, they’d be forced to relocate to greener pastures.

    Wow. You are so detached from reality. Welfare in the USA is hardly a disincentive to work. Basically, the only way to qualify for welfare is to be a single mother with children. Even then, the payments are paltry. You believe all the bullshit that the Reaganites were throwing around in the 1970s and 80. Welfare is not the problem.

    You must be detached from reality if you aren’t aware of how huge SS disability has become. That combined with food stamps, Medicaid etc gives someone a better standard of living than many working people have. Also the welfare that you are so defensive of has killed off the American family in all but the highest social classes.

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  71. fitzGetty says:
    @The Anti-Gnostic

    They were so far from the Mexican border, so few immigrants had any connections in North Dakota, and working outdoors in winter is so uncomfortable for immigrants from the tropical world that internal migration by Americans supplied most of the labor. And, thus, these American workers therefore had to be paid quite well due to lack of immigrant competition.
     
    I remember you're documenting the series of NY Times hit-pieces on that phenomenon. You'll recall Mencken's old jab at Puritanism: the haunting fear that someone, somewhere might be happy. Liberalism appears to be the haunting fear that some white man, somewhere might be well-paid.

    … why is that million man Somali influx so keen on Minnesota …?…

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  72. fitzGetty says:
    @AnotherDad
    Every single "good" that lefties\liberals claim to value is made worse by mass immigration
    -- employment
    -- wages
    -- income equality
    -- the welfare state
    -- public schools
    -- educational achievement
    -- sprawl
    -- pressure on natural resources
    -- sustainability
    -- climate change
    -- open space
    -- congestion
    -- housing affordability
    -- "gender equality"
    -- LBGTQRSTUV stuff
    -- race relations
    -- community

    Except it ramps up "diversity" and hence need for continual tedious state intervention and the vote for the parasite party. And best of all jams "diversity" up the white gentile male's ass and tears up his nation. And tearing up gentile nations is so darn terrific that losing all those other "goods" is perfectly tolerable. Diversity über alles.

    … the list omits Productivity – why is that, lads ?

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  73. CAL says:
    @Not Raul
    The oil boom in ND didn't actually provide a huge number of jobs relative to the national number of working age adults, and the large (percentage wise) net increase in workers only lasted a few years.

    It's much harder to relocate a two income household than a one income household. Two people need to find new jobs rather than one.

    That is an excellent point and I’ve never thought of that.

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  74. @AnotherDad
    White guys are screwed.

    White guys are simply not allowed to build anything of their own and keep it for themselves and their posterity--towns, companies, universities, country clubs, neighborhoods, nations.

    Once that rule is in place ... you're screwed. You build something nice ... other folks flock in to suck on it and in the process wreck it.

    Obviously the US had some issues from the get go because it's innate diversity from slavery. But back in the day it was still ok for whites to have a white neighborhood or school or country club. No more. So now it's an endless cycle of whites running off to here or there, having something nice for a bit, but it being taken\run down by other. (Many many neighborhoods and whole states like California have been built and abandoned.) And unlike blacks who really did not want to live in many white areas that were too cold, too rural or just too white, the Mexicans will follow whites anywhere. There is no place whites can go that they won't follow.

    As a result the only safety is in wealth--living in your little bailiwick that's just too darn expensive for the hoi polloi to pollute. And that's just fine with "our" "elites"--living the good life in their little splendid paradises, with cheap compliant labor at their beck and call. For average white guys--well if you're not loving your diverse dung heap you're a racist and shouldn't even be alive.

    Borders are the key to civilization and to any decent life for the common man.

    “White guys are simply not allowed to build anything of their own and keep it for themselves and their posterity–towns, companies, universities, country clubs, neighborhoods, nations.”

    I’ve been doing a fair bit of travelling round England and Wales lately, and there are new houses being built in large numbers everywhere, from London (high-rises) through Midlands market towns, across to remotest West Wales, the depressed North-East, darkest East Anglia. The exodus of the natives escaping diversity continues apace. I often wonder how long it will be before there’s a general realisation that they can’t run for ever (except the rich).

    Read More
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  75. Lex says:
    @Clyde

    Liberalism appears to be the haunting fear that some white man, somewhere might be well-paid.
     
    And they hate hate hate (thanks Whiskey!) Vladimir Putin because he is the strongest white man governing a white nation. He is anti-gay and a climate change non-believer. Thus the feminists and their weak tea male acolytes who govern Europe hate BadVlad too, and accused him of hacking the French elections.

    Russia is not THAT white. And it’s not getting better.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Jefferson
    Russia is not THAT white. And it’s not getting better."

    Russia is pretty damn White to me. I wish The U.S had Russia's racial demographics. Can you imagine if Chicago for example was as White as Moscow.
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  76. George says:

    TEXANOMICS
    The fracking boom spurs a baby boomlet
    Shale jobs boosted childbearing, but not marriage

    http://www.houstonchronicle.com/business/texanomics/amp/The-fracking-baby-boom-11146688.php

    Read More
    • Replies: @Formerly CARealist
    Is there a connection between marriage and childbearing? Do tell.

    From the center of the middle class on down the two have almost no correlation.
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  77. Bill says:
    @James Bowery
    Immigrants from old cultures can smell economic rent half a world away, which is why Silicon Valley is now majority immigrants from Asia -- primarily India. The network effects of the Internet was the big pile of smelly economic rent. The guys who should have been taking executive positions in Silicon Valley were kicked out when the dotcon bubble collapsed circa 2000 so that Brahmins could escape India's affirmative action programs and take those positions with the Fortune 500. Their gift to Americans was to harvest network effect economic rents that had come to fruition after being tended by Americans for decades of labor in the vineyards.

    This kind of sabotage of civilization isn't "sabotage" so much as it is exploiting a natural tendency of civilization to self-destruct:

    Network effect centralization.

    The network effect is the primary economy of scale that makes civilization out-compete other forms of social organization. If you don't understand the central importance of the network effect, it doesn't matter if you have the exceptional encyclopaedic knowledge, analysis and synthesis of a Carroll Quigley -- you will be intellectually impotent to preserve civilization against the weakness that is the flip-side of this foundational strength.

    Network effect wealth is, by definition, an _externality_. To use an example Steve may relate to:

    When someone back in the early 1980s bought an IBM PC, including a copy of MS-DOS, it didn't matter that MS-DOS was quite possibly the worst possible OS for the time. What they were _really_ buying was a network effect connecting software developers to software consumers via the MS-DOS platform. Similar externalities drive up land prices in urban areas. Simply dismissing these kinds of unearned centralizations of wealth as "naturally" dealt with by competition coming along _eventually_ that subverts the old network effects with new ones is _precisely_ the way civilizations fall. And this kind of studied ignorance of the network effect pervades so-called "libertarian philosophy".

    Indeed, if one gets _serious_ about preserving civilization, one accepts the fact that "the evolution of civilizations" involves multiple cycles during which some entities persist across cycles and others don't -- leading to evolved entities that exploit these cycles. Since network effects centralize wealth, and wealth leads to greater evolutionary viability, one would expect certain evolved entities to actively oppose recognition of network effects so that the wealth can be captured. This is exactly what the "economic theories" of virtually all schools of economics do, from Marxists to Libertarians.

    If you want to preserve civilization, you stop taxing all economic activities, eliminate "the state" as we know it and, instead, charge network effect wealth a use fee that is distributed, _directly_ to the able bodied men -- evenly -- as a dividend of a mutual insurance company of which they are members. Any social functions (such as delivering social goods, having children, education, military, police enforcment, etc.) then become functions of the free market.

    If you don’t understand the central importance of the network effect, it doesn’t matter if you have the exceptional encyclopaedic knowledge, analysis and synthesis of a Carroll Quigley — you will be intellectually impotent to preserve civilization against the weakness that is the flip-side of this foundational strength.

    True, but being intellectually potent really isn’t the thing. You can out-reproduce outsiders without understanding much of anything. You can violently expel outsiders without understanding much of anything. I doubt most Indians have any deep understanding of connections between network economies and civilization, for example. Grab, grab, fuck, fight works pretty well.

    If you want to preserve civilization, you stop taxing all economic activities, eliminate “the state” as we know it and, instead, charge network effect wealth a use fee that is distributed, _directly_ to the able bodied men — evenly — as a dividend . . .

    Sure, we could do some untried utopian idea. That usually works out well. Or, we could just revert to some form of social organization which has worked in the past.

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    • Replies: @ben tillman

    Or, we could just revert to some form of social organization which has worked in the past.
     
    If any form of social organization had worked in the past, we would not be in this predicament.
    , @James Bowery
    "Sure, we could do some untried utopian idea. That usually works out well. Or, we could just revert to some form of social organization which has worked in the past."

    To be rational you have to look at policy gradients and their correlations and base your decisions on the best-guess (inductive) extrapolations to current conditions.

    Network effect taxation appears approximated in early civilizations as land value taxation. Compensation of able bodied men for collective defense of collective territory (land) is, in effect, a citizen's dividend.

    Land value taxation (ala Henry George) is the first-line defense against civilizational collapse. This is because civilization is founded on collective defense of agricultural territory. The second-line defense is avoidance of taxing human capital since human capital is as essential to armies as is money. Income tax is essentially a tax on human capital for most people.

    The Eastern Roman Empire outlasted the Western Empire. Here's what I think may have happened in Byzantium: They relied on land value taxation more than did Rome during its decline. Although they had a "hearth tax" (much like a human capital tax) the introduction of monastery exemptions permitted human capital a refuge as monasteries began absorbing the peasantry into church owned lands.

    As Byzantium began to crack down on refuges for human capital it opened up vulnerability to Islam's tax system as superior. Note that "jizya" -- a human capital tax -- applied only to dhimmis or non-Muslims. The "ushr", harvest taxes, were an indirect tax on human capital but were also an indirect tax on land value (10% on irrigated harvests and 20% on harvests from land with natural waterfall). Moreover there is apparently some dispute as to whether ushr is permitted by the Quran.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_taxes

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  78. GSR says:
    @Buck Turgidson
    Does it not say in the Constitution that the nation was founded to ensure that anyone in the world should be able to move here and get welfare and otherwise take the taxpayers to the cleaners?

    Maybe the patriots at the WSJ can propose another new Constitutional amendment:
    "Toilet paper sales shall increase into perpetuity."

    Exactly. The country was not founded so every peasant in the world could move here with twenty of their relatives.

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  79. Travis says:
    @Thrasymachus
    One thing never mentioned is the cost of moving. It is insanely expensive.

    If you're single and don't have much stuff is not too bad but if you have a family it's thousands of dollars. I made a halfway cross country move with one wife, one child and a one bedroom apartment's worth of stuff, and it came to around $7000.

    If you have a support system, moving means you lose it. And unless you are going to make a lot more money, which is unlikely, it's not economically viable.

    with 40% of Millennial males (20-35) living at home, they have even less reason to move. Today 30-year-olds are more likely top live with Mommy than a spouse.

    When I graduated Rutgers in 1992, 90% of my classmates were from New Jersey. Among my fellow Fraternity brothers graduating from 1990-1993 we knew of one who moved home after graduation. almost half of my Frat brothers who graduated during this time moved to another state. Today in New Jersey 50% of Millennial males live at home.

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  80. Numinous says:

    If somebody is coming from abroad to make use of America, they are likely to move to a location in America with a booming economy. Thus, the flow of immigrants to American boomtowns drive down wages and drive up rents, making moving to boomtowns less economically rewarding for Americans.

    If this is true, then lack of mobility would have been characteristic of Americans during the last big age of immigration (1880s-1920s.)

    Was it?

    Read More
    • Replies: @RadicalCenter
    Do you notice any difference in our population density between 1880-1929 and now?
    , @Joe Schmoe


    If this is true, then lack of mobility would have been characteristic of Americans during the last big age of immigration (1880s-1920s.)
     
    The obvious difference between now and then is agriculture. In those days many of my family received land grants in western states because they were farmers and the growing population needed more food. Some of my family were immigrants from Norway and Denmark and worked as tenant farmers initially, their citizen children got land grants. I have their land patents. So, sons of farmers moved west. And non-farmer immigrants filled cities. Both needed to eat.

    It was different then. Thanks to Norman Borlaug, everyone forgets that obesity was not a big thing in the past because food was nowhere near so plentiful.
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  81. Jefferson says:
    @Rod1963
    Also boom towns are expensive to live in as are most urban areas. Unless you make real good money, or lived there before the boom times, you live in a dump or in your car. This is why cops, firemen, teachers and all those infrastructure people live on the outskirts of major cities. It's simply too expensive to do otherwise and you don't get much for your money if you live in boom town proper.

    What's happening in silicon Valley is typical, even geeks making a $140k + are forced to 2+ hour daily commutes or living in a shared apartment.

    Of course immigration have made things much worse across the country as these people soak up all the affordable joints and make them uninhabitable to whites in the process.

    But the executive and CEO class who promote immigration don't care because they're so rich they can live anywhere.

    What’s happening in silicon Valley is typical, even geeks making a $140k + are forced to 2+ hour daily commutes or living in a shared apartment.”

    I read that some Silicon Valley employees live as far away as Sacramento. Anybody here on The Unz who has ever lived in Northern California know that it is quite far a commute if you have to do it 5 days a week.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Autochthon
    I won't go so far as to publish where I luve and work, but I can provide representative domiciles for those of us working in the Santa Clara Valley; Sunnyvale (Apple, Google, Microsoft...) and Santa Clara (NVIDIA, Intel...) are perhaps the most popular locations of work.These towns are adjacent, so the differences in distances to one or the other is negligible.

    Submitted for your approval is a list of popular domiciles for those of us not made
    of money who who demand surroundings less dense and ... Diverse than those of Hyderabad and Hong Kong, accompanying each is its distance to Sunnyvale.

    Elk Grove......111 Miles
    Modesto.........83 Miles
    Patterson.......78 Miles
    Tracy............. 54 Miles
    Sacramento...118 Miles
    Turlock...........94 Miles
    Manteca.........68 Miles
    Gilroy.............42 Miles

    Like unto an old prospector in an episode of Scooby Doo, I even hear tell of those who dwell in Roseville (135 miles) and Santa Rosa (113 Miles, but requiring intrepid commuters to actually transverse San Francisco or Oakland to avoid one Hell of a detour to avoid them...).

    Don't let the mere distances fool you, either: because of bumper-to-bumper traffic and bottlenecks from mountains and bays, maot of these trips exceed three hours easily. My own commute has now reached some four hours one-way.

    For many of these towns public transit includes buses for commuters to a BART station (Patterson, Turlock, Modesto, Tracy, & Manteca). One can take a train to and from Morgan Hill and Gilroy.The giganticorps (Microsoft, Google, Apple, etc.) also provide private coaches to the towns closer in (Gilroy, Santa Cruz, etc.), and ACE trains are available if one commutes form Sacramento, Antioch, etc.

    TL,DR: Yessir, it's a shitshow. A real tormienta de mierda. Welcome to Brasilia del Norte, coming soon to an overpopulated hellhole near you. But don't worry: Sales of toilet paper and diapers
    will skyrocket!

    , @Joe Schmoe
    How is a 2 hour commute environmentally friendly?
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  82. Numinous says:
    @AnotherDad
    Every single "good" that lefties\liberals claim to value is made worse by mass immigration
    -- employment
    -- wages
    -- income equality
    -- the welfare state
    -- public schools
    -- educational achievement
    -- sprawl
    -- pressure on natural resources
    -- sustainability
    -- climate change
    -- open space
    -- congestion
    -- housing affordability
    -- "gender equality"
    -- LBGTQRSTUV stuff
    -- race relations
    -- community

    Except it ramps up "diversity" and hence need for continual tedious state intervention and the vote for the parasite party. And best of all jams "diversity" up the white gentile male's ass and tears up his nation. And tearing up gentile nations is so darn terrific that losing all those other "goods" is perfectly tolerable. Diversity über alles.

    Based on your list, one would think conservatives (and reactionaries) would be thrilled by mass immigration. Yet they aren’t.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Autochthon
    This comment is borderline retarded. What in the history of the concepts suggest conservatives and reactionaries crave a desolate wasteland of dystopian horror wherein overpopulation, insufficient food and water, ecological destruction, and pollution have us all roaming about as cancer-addled cannibals and mutants in the tradition of Hell Comes to Frogtown?
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  83. Jefferson says:
    @Lex
    Russia is not THAT white. And it's not getting better.

    Russia is not THAT white. And it’s not getting better.”

    Russia is pretty damn White to me. I wish The U.S had Russia’s racial demographics. Can you imagine if Chicago for example was as White as Moscow.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    I like how Russia has freedom of association. I feel if that was permitted in the US, a lot of problems would cease to be.
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  84. Jefferson says:
    @Travis
    About 25 million young adults – 35% of all 18- to 34-year-olds – live in their parents’ homes. At the state level, New Jersey had the highest percentage of millennials ― a whopping 47 percent ― still living at home. Connecticut and New York ― where more than 40 percent of that segment are still living with mom and dad ― trail close behind.

    30 year olds today are more likely to live with their parents than than with a spouse. The biggest problem seems to be getting 30-year-olds to move out of their parents home or get a spouse. If Millennials lack the ability to get their own apartment, how do we expect them to move to another state.

    “About 25 million young adults – 35% of all 18- to 34-year-olds – live in their parents’ homes. At the state level, New Jersey had the highest percentage of millennials ― a whopping 47 percent ― still living at home. Connecticut and New York ― where more than 40 percent of that segment are still living with mom and dad ― trail close behind.”

    The percentage of Millennials who still live with their parents is much higher in blue states than in red states because the cost of living on your own is nuch higher in blue states. Liberalism does not create affordable housing.

    Read More
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  85. JohnnyGeo says:
    @Joe Schmoe
    Working oilfields is not like working agricultural fields.

    Latin Americans can't really compete with Americans. American men tend to be bigger, stronger, smarter and read and understand English well enough to comply with OSHA and other safety standards. Incompetence is extremely dangerous in a drilling operation. And size does matter. So, I am not surprised that when a business is paying more for labor, they are going to be able to get better labor than marginally literate little Mexicans. Bigger stronger smarter Mexicans are not working in the oil patch because they can get a better deal both in Mexico and in the USA.

    Agree. I think the whiteness of the oil boom workforce is more demand-driven than supply-driven.

    Read More
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  86. @George
    TEXANOMICS
    The fracking boom spurs a baby boomlet
    Shale jobs boosted childbearing, but not marriage

    http://www.houstonchronicle.com/business/texanomics/amp/The-fracking-baby-boom-11146688.php

    Is there a connection between marriage and childbearing? Do tell.

    From the center of the middle class on down the two have almost no correlation.

    Read More
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  87. @Jefferson
    What’s happening in silicon Valley is typical, even geeks making a $140k + are forced to 2+ hour daily commutes or living in a shared apartment."

    I read that some Silicon Valley employees live as far away as Sacramento. Anybody here on The Unz who has ever lived in Northern California know that it is quite far a commute if you have to do it 5 days a week.

    I won’t go so far as to publish where I luve and work, but I can provide representative domiciles for those of us working in the Santa Clara Valley; Sunnyvale (Apple, Google, Microsoft…) and Santa Clara (NVIDIA, Intel…) are perhaps the most popular locations of work.These towns are adjacent, so the differences in distances to one or the other is negligible.

    Submitted for your approval is a list of popular domiciles for those of us not made
    of money who who demand surroundings less dense and … Diverse than those of Hyderabad and Hong Kong, accompanying each is its distance to Sunnyvale.

    Elk Grove……111 Miles
    Modesto………83 Miles
    Patterson…….78 Miles
    Tracy…………. 54 Miles
    Sacramento…118 Miles
    Turlock………..94 Miles
    Manteca………68 Miles
    Gilroy………….42 Miles

    Like unto an old prospector in an episode of Scooby Doo, I even hear tell of those who dwell in Roseville (135 miles) and Santa Rosa (113 Miles, but requiring intrepid commuters to actually transverse San Francisco or Oakland to avoid one Hell of a detour to avoid them…).

    Don’t let the mere distances fool you, either: because of bumper-to-bumper traffic and bottlenecks from mountains and bays, maot of these trips exceed three hours easily. My own commute has now reached some four hours one-way.

    For many of these towns public transit includes buses for commuters to a BART station (Patterson, Turlock, Modesto, Tracy, & Manteca). One can take a train to and from Morgan Hill and Gilroy.The giganticorps (Microsoft, Google, Apple, etc.) also provide private coaches to the towns closer in (Gilroy, Santa Cruz, etc.), and ACE trains are available if one commutes form Sacramento, Antioch, etc.

    TL,DR: Yessir, it’s a shitshow. A real tormienta de mierda. Welcome to Brasilia del Norte, coming soon to an overpopulated hellhole near you. But don’t worry: Sales of toilet paper and diapers
    will skyrocket!

    Read More
    • Replies: @Joe Schmoe

    The giganticorps (Microsoft, Google, Apple, etc.) also provide private coaches to the towns closer in (Gilroy, Santa Cruz, etc.)
     
    LOL

    Segregation for me but not for thee!
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  88. @Numinous
    Based on your list, one would think conservatives (and reactionaries) would be thrilled by mass immigration. Yet they aren't.

    This comment is borderline retarded. What in the history of the concepts suggest conservatives and reactionaries crave a desolate wasteland of dystopian horror wherein overpopulation, insufficient food and water, ecological destruction, and pollution have us all roaming about as cancer-addled cannibals and mutants in the tradition of Hell Comes to Frogtown?

    Read More
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  89. @Daniel H
    >>Could also be that welfare payments allow people to stay in the same economically depressed areas, while if they they had to work, they’d be forced to relocate to greener pastures.

    Wow. You are so detached from reality. Welfare in the USA is hardly a disincentive to work. Basically, the only way to qualify for welfare is to be a single mother with children. Even then, the payments are paltry. You believe all the bullshit that the Reaganites were throwing around in the 1970s and 80. Welfare is not the problem.

    Jim Bob and Jay have points, but the last time I was without a pot to piss in or a window to throw it out of, I was denied any benefits whatsoever, including even food stamps, although I was unemployed and sleeping on friend’s couches when I could, and the streets when I could not. The smug bastards at the county office basically told me because I was a man and had no children I didn’t matter. I distinctly remember from the paperwork that, had I been a recent arrival from Haiti (there’d been a hurricane or some such) I could have qualified for cash and prizes. Being as I was only an American combat veteran who’d until recently paid as much as one third of his earnings into taxes, I could, of course, only go to Hell.

    I recall the entire afternoon with glacial clarity; I’d walked ten miles one-way in a Georgia summer to be told all this. It was in that moment I began to despise the American government, as it is presently constituted, with a smoldering rage.

    Perhaps you are both right: welfare is a hoot and a holler for scam artists, but a horrorshow at best for anyone approaching the process honestly for help weathering a bad run.

    Read More
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  90. @Jefferson
    Russia is not THAT white. And it’s not getting better."

    Russia is pretty damn White to me. I wish The U.S had Russia's racial demographics. Can you imagine if Chicago for example was as White as Moscow.

    I like how Russia has freedom of association. I feel if that was permitted in the US, a lot of problems would cease to be.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Jefferson
    "I like how Russia has freedom of association. I feel if that was permitted in the US, a lot of problems would cease to be."

    Russia is so White that their largest so-called "Nonwhite" population are people from the Caucasus region, who in The U.S would just be considered non ginger and non blonde White people, as they are just basically just White people with darker hair and darker eyes.
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  91. @Whiskey
    This is what is known as a pre-revolutionary condition. Or the end of White flight. There is no more cheap, affordable loans for (Whites anyway) to move all over the country. Nepotistic networks from TV writing to Silicon Valley close off opportunity. Meanwhile the threat is constant of making what little the Middle and Working Class has, even less.

    Housing values going down through both Immavasion and Section 8. Schools essentially worthless, and private schooling a must. Public spaces ceded to those immavaders strong enough to hold them.

    What are young ambitious Young White Men without money, power, and connections (most of them) going to do? Upset the Apple Cart. The Alt-Right is young White men who were not included in the party (again, most of them). What are those afraid of losing everything and ending up as near-street people going to do? Again, vote for whoever promises to protect them against the downside. It sure as heck won't be Oprah or Cory Booker (the two favorites for the Dems).

    Upper and Middle Class White women have been mostly protected against this, not so even Women who are working class, much less Working and Middle Class White men who are Public Enemy #1.

    [Related, the rapes and abuse of working and middle class White girls is a plus for Upper Class White women -- it removes female competitors and lets them feel thrills for the bad boys who did the violence. There is no end to the harm on a civilizational level of Upper Class White women unoccupied by children and family.]

    THOROUGHLY agree with your last sentence. I have worked for, worked with, and lived among such women, and they are not to be trusted.

    Read More
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  92. @Numinous

    If somebody is coming from abroad to make use of America, they are likely to move to a location in America with a booming economy. Thus, the flow of immigrants to American boomtowns drive down wages and drive up rents, making moving to boomtowns less economically rewarding for Americans.
     
    If this is true, then lack of mobility would have been characteristic of Americans during the last big age of immigration (1880s-1920s.)

    Was it?

    Do you notice any difference in our population density between 1880-1929 and now?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Numinous
    That doesn't answer my question (which was a genuine one, not a gotcha.)

    Sure, population density was lower, as it was in every country on the planet back then (and proportionally.) So what? The economy was also much smaller, so if you are concerned about immigrants sharing the economic pie and impacting wages, the comparison is more than valid.
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  93. Numinous says:
    @RadicalCenter
    Do you notice any difference in our population density between 1880-1929 and now?

    That doesn’t answer my question (which was a genuine one, not a gotcha.)

    Sure, population density was lower, as it was in every country on the planet back then (and proportionally.) So what? The economy was also much smaller, so if you are concerned about immigrants sharing the economic pie and impacting wages, the comparison is more than valid.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Joe Schmoe

    The economy was also much smaller, so if you are concerned about immigrants sharing the economic pie and impacting wages, the comparison is more than valid.
     
    No, not really.

    Now we have very expensive health care that taxpayers pay for. Anyone too poor to pay gets it free. So, non-productive folks both citizen and immigrant consume at very high rates. When we only import more productive folks, then the ratio of producers to consumers is more favorable.
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  94. @Henry Bowman
    Step 1. Create millions of poor, disenfranchised, economically stagnate White people

    Step 2. Said millions of pissed of whites get online and figure out how bad they have been screwed, by whom and why

    Step 3. Retake the GOP, crush the cucks, drive out the left and if all else fails Coup and Helicopter rides.

    Now we’re talkin’ !
    Formulate action plans.
    Our think tanks never get beyond wonky navel-gazing and minutia. Let’s roll up the proverbial sleeves and git ‘er done.
    Boots on the ground. Our Historic American ground.

    Read More
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  95. Buck says:

    There are many factors involved in this trend and not all of which are calamitous. Obviously people staying put despite economic hard times are the families which are continuing putting down roots, continuing traditions and institutions. Social scientists and advertisers know moving to a new physical locations is one of the big life events in which people will radically change their behavior. Moving works to quit smoking and change your laundry detergent. But it also may means you will quit church going and must create all new social networks, usually without family.

    So staying put isn’t all bad for society. My grandparents churches in the Midwest will probably close in the coming decades. One of my relations owns the old high school where my parents met and dated. It’s now a tractor business as there are few farm children needing schooling anymore. Our family farm sits abandoned although the land brings a nice lease income. There are hundreds of thousands abandoned family farms all across the nation. They are silent witnesses of mechanization.

    Despite the decay, living in these flyover places has many benefits. Incomes aren’t everything. The quality of life and proximity to nature are usually great. You know your neighbors and they know your kids. It is ridiculously inexpensive to survive even if it is difficult to thrive. You have a sense of place and your position in that place. The internet is the same whether you live in a large city or lonely outpost, it allows an unfiltered access to the outside world. Web based businesses are located all over the sticks. They have UPS and USPS to take their wares to market.

    So the opportunity cost of moving to boom towns from bustville is quit large without even considering government policies of immigration and welfare. And immigrants are everywhere in boom and bust alike. As is welfare. The government doesn’t care where they need to send your refundable EITC or Child Credits. Let’s face it that those are the largest checks many Americans see every year.

    What the past 50 years of government policy should have taught us is that America is more than an economy, it is a people. In that time, our real GDP has quadrupled yet wages for most Americans have been stagnant. Our population in that time has grown by 40%, much of that through legal and illegal immigration. Non-Hispanic Whites have shrunk from about 90% of the American populace to about 60%.

    So does it really matter where your deck chair on the Titanic is located?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Autochthon
    Spot on. Having resolved to escape California some time ago, I am increasingly discovering, to my growing horror, there may well be no place to escape to: the government cannot airlift alien rapists and de facto wage slaves into remote towns in Idaho, Texas, and Minnesota quickly enough.

    Mr. Derbyshire said it best.

    But may be it's all no different than the heat death of the universe: No cause for despair, but rather for wisdom, patience, and fortitude.

    For the Lord of the Galadhrim is accounted the wisest of the Elves of Middle-Earth, and a giver of gifts beyond the power of kings. He has dwelt in the West since the days of dawn, and I have dwelt with him years uncounted; for ere the fall of Nargothrond or Gondolin I passed over the mountains, and together through the ages of the world we have fought the long defeat....

    Galadriel, of Celeborn, to Frodo, in The Fellowship of the Ring
     
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  96. @Numinous

    If somebody is coming from abroad to make use of America, they are likely to move to a location in America with a booming economy. Thus, the flow of immigrants to American boomtowns drive down wages and drive up rents, making moving to boomtowns less economically rewarding for Americans.
     
    If this is true, then lack of mobility would have been characteristic of Americans during the last big age of immigration (1880s-1920s.)

    Was it?

    If this is true, then lack of mobility would have been characteristic of Americans during the last big age of immigration (1880s-1920s.)

    The obvious difference between now and then is agriculture. In those days many of my family received land grants in western states because they were farmers and the growing population needed more food. Some of my family were immigrants from Norway and Denmark and worked as tenant farmers initially, their citizen children got land grants. I have their land patents. So, sons of farmers moved west. And non-farmer immigrants filled cities. Both needed to eat.

    It was different then. Thanks to Norman Borlaug, everyone forgets that obesity was not a big thing in the past because food was nowhere near so plentiful.

    Read More
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  97. @Numinous
    That doesn't answer my question (which was a genuine one, not a gotcha.)

    Sure, population density was lower, as it was in every country on the planet back then (and proportionally.) So what? The economy was also much smaller, so if you are concerned about immigrants sharing the economic pie and impacting wages, the comparison is more than valid.

    The economy was also much smaller, so if you are concerned about immigrants sharing the economic pie and impacting wages, the comparison is more than valid.

    No, not really.

    Now we have very expensive health care that taxpayers pay for. Anyone too poor to pay gets it free. So, non-productive folks both citizen and immigrant consume at very high rates. When we only import more productive folks, then the ratio of producers to consumers is more favorable.

    Read More
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  98. @Autochthon
    I won't go so far as to publish where I luve and work, but I can provide representative domiciles for those of us working in the Santa Clara Valley; Sunnyvale (Apple, Google, Microsoft...) and Santa Clara (NVIDIA, Intel...) are perhaps the most popular locations of work.These towns are adjacent, so the differences in distances to one or the other is negligible.

    Submitted for your approval is a list of popular domiciles for those of us not made
    of money who who demand surroundings less dense and ... Diverse than those of Hyderabad and Hong Kong, accompanying each is its distance to Sunnyvale.

    Elk Grove......111 Miles
    Modesto.........83 Miles
    Patterson.......78 Miles
    Tracy............. 54 Miles
    Sacramento...118 Miles
    Turlock...........94 Miles
    Manteca.........68 Miles
    Gilroy.............42 Miles

    Like unto an old prospector in an episode of Scooby Doo, I even hear tell of those who dwell in Roseville (135 miles) and Santa Rosa (113 Miles, but requiring intrepid commuters to actually transverse San Francisco or Oakland to avoid one Hell of a detour to avoid them...).

    Don't let the mere distances fool you, either: because of bumper-to-bumper traffic and bottlenecks from mountains and bays, maot of these trips exceed three hours easily. My own commute has now reached some four hours one-way.

    For many of these towns public transit includes buses for commuters to a BART station (Patterson, Turlock, Modesto, Tracy, & Manteca). One can take a train to and from Morgan Hill and Gilroy.The giganticorps (Microsoft, Google, Apple, etc.) also provide private coaches to the towns closer in (Gilroy, Santa Cruz, etc.), and ACE trains are available if one commutes form Sacramento, Antioch, etc.

    TL,DR: Yessir, it's a shitshow. A real tormienta de mierda. Welcome to Brasilia del Norte, coming soon to an overpopulated hellhole near you. But don't worry: Sales of toilet paper and diapers
    will skyrocket!

    The giganticorps (Microsoft, Google, Apple, etc.) also provide private coaches to the towns closer in (Gilroy, Santa Cruz, etc.)

    LOL

    Segregation for me but not for thee!

    Read More
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  99. @Jefferson
    What’s happening in silicon Valley is typical, even geeks making a $140k + are forced to 2+ hour daily commutes or living in a shared apartment."

    I read that some Silicon Valley employees live as far away as Sacramento. Anybody here on The Unz who has ever lived in Northern California know that it is quite far a commute if you have to do it 5 days a week.

    How is a 2 hour commute environmentally friendly?

    Read More
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  100. Jay Fink says:

    5 years ago I was offered a job and moved from Las Vegas (where I spent nearly my entire life) to Washington State. From one fast growing place to another (although in 2012 Vegas was still hurting bad by the recession). The job didn’t work out but I decided to stay in Washington anyway. Here it is 5 years later and I still enjoy the different climate and scenery. Everything is still so fresh to me.

    I like the idea that I shook my life up when I moved. I meet different people and have different experiences than I would have had if I stayed put. The slowdown in domestic migration is kind of sad to me. People are more stuck in their comfort zones now than ever even when things aren’t going well for them.

    Read More
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  101. @Bill

    If you don’t understand the central importance of the network effect, it doesn’t matter if you have the exceptional encyclopaedic knowledge, analysis and synthesis of a Carroll Quigley — you will be intellectually impotent to preserve civilization against the weakness that is the flip-side of this foundational strength.
     
    True, but being intellectually potent really isn't the thing. You can out-reproduce outsiders without understanding much of anything. You can violently expel outsiders without understanding much of anything. I doubt most Indians have any deep understanding of connections between network economies and civilization, for example. Grab, grab, fuck, fight works pretty well.

    If you want to preserve civilization, you stop taxing all economic activities, eliminate “the state” as we know it and, instead, charge network effect wealth a use fee that is distributed, _directly_ to the able bodied men — evenly — as a dividend . . .
     
    Sure, we could do some untried utopian idea. That usually works out well. Or, we could just revert to some form of social organization which has worked in the past.

    Or, we could just revert to some form of social organization which has worked in the past.

    If any form of social organization had worked in the past, we would not be in this predicament.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Autochthon
    "Grab, fuck, fight" has worked for millenia on this planet.

    How was your flight in from Cygnus X-1, anyhow?

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  102. JackOH says:

    Thanks to all who’ve noticed the obvious about relocating. It costs money and psychological stress to pull up stakes, and, ditto for putting down roots at your new location.

    A few quick thoughts: (1) People who stay put are likely to be demonstrating a “revealed preference”, (2) there’s a Prof. Alfred de Zayas who, I think, has come up with a legal theory of a right to a homeland. I’m not sure it’s made much headway, but I guess one interpretation of it may be that one has a right to remain where one is unmolested by mischievous laws. (This may be better placed under Steve’s post about White flight.)

    Read More
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  103. @Whiskey
    This is what is known as a pre-revolutionary condition. Or the end of White flight. There is no more cheap, affordable loans for (Whites anyway) to move all over the country. Nepotistic networks from TV writing to Silicon Valley close off opportunity. Meanwhile the threat is constant of making what little the Middle and Working Class has, even less.

    Housing values going down through both Immavasion and Section 8. Schools essentially worthless, and private schooling a must. Public spaces ceded to those immavaders strong enough to hold them.

    What are young ambitious Young White Men without money, power, and connections (most of them) going to do? Upset the Apple Cart. The Alt-Right is young White men who were not included in the party (again, most of them). What are those afraid of losing everything and ending up as near-street people going to do? Again, vote for whoever promises to protect them against the downside. It sure as heck won't be Oprah or Cory Booker (the two favorites for the Dems).

    Upper and Middle Class White women have been mostly protected against this, not so even Women who are working class, much less Working and Middle Class White men who are Public Enemy #1.

    [Related, the rapes and abuse of working and middle class White girls is a plus for Upper Class White women -- it removes female competitors and lets them feel thrills for the bad boys who did the violence. There is no end to the harm on a civilizational level of Upper Class White women unoccupied by children and family.]

    [Related, the rapes and abuse of working and middle class White girls is a plus for Upper Class White women -- it removes female competitors and lets them feel thrills for the bad boys who did the violence.

    No.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Autochthon
    Mr. Unz provides a "Disagree" option to avoid clutter from such eloquent rebuttals; please consider using it.
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  104. Jefferson says:
    @Daniel Chieh
    I like how Russia has freedom of association. I feel if that was permitted in the US, a lot of problems would cease to be.

    “I like how Russia has freedom of association. I feel if that was permitted in the US, a lot of problems would cease to be.”

    Russia is so White that their largest so-called “Nonwhite” population are people from the Caucasus region, who in The U.S would just be considered non ginger and non blonde White people, as they are just basically just White people with darker hair and darker eyes.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Lex
    I take it you would have no problem with USA trading million Mexicans for million Chechens?
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  105. @ben tillman

    [Related, the rapes and abuse of working and middle class White girls is a plus for Upper Class White women -- it removes female competitors and lets them feel thrills for the bad boys who did the violence.
     
    No.

    Mr. Unz provides a “Disagree” option to avoid clutter from such eloquent rebuttals; please consider using it.

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  106. @ben tillman

    Or, we could just revert to some form of social organization which has worked in the past.
     
    If any form of social organization had worked in the past, we would not be in this predicament.

    “Grab, fuck, fight” has worked for millenia on this planet.

    How was your flight in from Cygnus X-1, anyhow?

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  107. @Buck
    There are many factors involved in this trend and not all of which are calamitous. Obviously people staying put despite economic hard times are the families which are continuing putting down roots, continuing traditions and institutions. Social scientists and advertisers know moving to a new physical locations is one of the big life events in which people will radically change their behavior. Moving works to quit smoking and change your laundry detergent. But it also may means you will quit church going and must create all new social networks, usually without family.

    So staying put isn't all bad for society. My grandparents churches in the Midwest will probably close in the coming decades. One of my relations owns the old high school where my parents met and dated. It's now a tractor business as there are few farm children needing schooling anymore. Our family farm sits abandoned although the land brings a nice lease income. There are hundreds of thousands abandoned family farms all across the nation. They are silent witnesses of mechanization.

    Despite the decay, living in these flyover places has many benefits. Incomes aren't everything. The quality of life and proximity to nature are usually great. You know your neighbors and they know your kids. It is ridiculously inexpensive to survive even if it is difficult to thrive. You have a sense of place and your position in that place. The internet is the same whether you live in a large city or lonely outpost, it allows an unfiltered access to the outside world. Web based businesses are located all over the sticks. They have UPS and USPS to take their wares to market.

    So the opportunity cost of moving to boom towns from bustville is quit large without even considering government policies of immigration and welfare. And immigrants are everywhere in boom and bust alike. As is welfare. The government doesn't care where they need to send your refundable EITC or Child Credits. Let's face it that those are the largest checks many Americans see every year.

    What the past 50 years of government policy should have taught us is that America is more than an economy, it is a people. In that time, our real GDP has quadrupled yet wages for most Americans have been stagnant. Our population in that time has grown by 40%, much of that through legal and illegal immigration. Non-Hispanic Whites have shrunk from about 90% of the American populace to about 60%.

    So does it really matter where your deck chair on the Titanic is located?

    Spot on. Having resolved to escape California some time ago, I am increasingly discovering, to my growing horror, there may well be no place to escape to: the government cannot airlift alien rapists and de facto wage slaves into remote towns in Idaho, Texas, and Minnesota quickly enough.

    Mr. Derbyshire said it best.

    But may be it’s all no different than the heat death of the universe: No cause for despair, but rather for wisdom, patience, and fortitude.

    For the Lord of the Galadhrim is accounted the wisest of the Elves of Middle-Earth, and a giver of gifts beyond the power of kings. He has dwelt in the West since the days of dawn, and I have dwelt with him years uncounted; for ere the fall of Nargothrond or Gondolin I passed over the mountains, and together through the ages of the world we have fought the long defeat….

    Galadriel, of Celeborn, to Frodo, in The Fellowship of the Ring

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    • Replies: @Buck
    I confess that my advocacy of putting down roots is not something I've ever really done. I grew up a military brat and moved around the nation every few years of my childhood. I also roamed in my early adulthood with work. In middle aged prosperity, I split my time between two distinct and differing regions of the country. I've also lived overseas.

    All that to say I've come to appreciate the diversity and sameness of the entire U.S.. I've come to understand the rooters, those whose time in place leads to a real understanding. It's something my transient nature won't ever achieve. But my travels have found pockets of the country mostly unmolested by the policies of our betters. Almost every region of this country has its own beauty so it really comes down to where I can be comfortable and wealthy (California taxes are impoverishing). The internet has revolutionised economic mobility so working is not really a problem even in the remote areas.

    Looking for places outside of California is fairly easy as everywhere is less expensive. I look for nearly all white areas. They have high trust and low crime. Low taxes are important to me and a relative sign of the health of the government (smaller means more efficient).
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  108. Lex says:
    @Jefferson
    "I like how Russia has freedom of association. I feel if that was permitted in the US, a lot of problems would cease to be."

    Russia is so White that their largest so-called "Nonwhite" population are people from the Caucasus region, who in The U.S would just be considered non ginger and non blonde White people, as they are just basically just White people with darker hair and darker eyes.

    I take it you would have no problem with USA trading million Mexicans for million Chechens?

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  109. Neoconned says:
    @Percy Gryce
    I thought about moving to Vegas in the early 2000s and to the Dakotas during the fracking & natural gas boom.

    In the end my risk aversion won out. And I'm thankful for Virginia in-state tuition.

    I was about to go to N Dakota in 2014 & do the fracking work. Had a spot on a Chevron crew & i was going to have a spot in a mancamp

    Then the price of oil collapsed. Im mot married and have no kids so it would jave been fine w me having an apt in a mancamp.

    In early 2015 i took a second job as a cook at the Dairy Queen two towns over. One of my fellow cooks had been working in Tioga ND…..

    i missed that gravy train by one lousy yr…..coulda made 100k

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  110. Buck says:
    @Autochthon
    Spot on. Having resolved to escape California some time ago, I am increasingly discovering, to my growing horror, there may well be no place to escape to: the government cannot airlift alien rapists and de facto wage slaves into remote towns in Idaho, Texas, and Minnesota quickly enough.

    Mr. Derbyshire said it best.

    But may be it's all no different than the heat death of the universe: No cause for despair, but rather for wisdom, patience, and fortitude.

    For the Lord of the Galadhrim is accounted the wisest of the Elves of Middle-Earth, and a giver of gifts beyond the power of kings. He has dwelt in the West since the days of dawn, and I have dwelt with him years uncounted; for ere the fall of Nargothrond or Gondolin I passed over the mountains, and together through the ages of the world we have fought the long defeat....

    Galadriel, of Celeborn, to Frodo, in The Fellowship of the Ring
     

    I confess that my advocacy of putting down roots is not something I’ve ever really done. I grew up a military brat and moved around the nation every few years of my childhood. I also roamed in my early adulthood with work. In middle aged prosperity, I split my time between two distinct and differing regions of the country. I’ve also lived overseas.

    All that to say I’ve come to appreciate the diversity and sameness of the entire U.S.. I’ve come to understand the rooters, those whose time in place leads to a real understanding. It’s something my transient nature won’t ever achieve. But my travels have found pockets of the country mostly unmolested by the policies of our betters. Almost every region of this country has its own beauty so it really comes down to where I can be comfortable and wealthy (California taxes are impoverishing). The internet has revolutionised economic mobility so working is not really a problem even in the remote areas.

    Looking for places outside of California is fairly easy as everywhere is less expensive. I look for nearly all white areas. They have high trust and low crime. Low taxes are important to me and a relative sign of the health of the government (smaller means more efficient).

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    • Replies: @Autochthon

    The internet [sic] has revolutionised economic mobility so working is not really a problem even in the remote areas.
     
    I've the impression you're somewhat older than me, and liable to've achieved a modicum of independence during the sweet spot, as it were, but this statement is increasingly untrue.

    The Internet enables remote work, and it actually occurs in the context of, say, a gaggle of cheap Indians in Hyderabad putting programmers in San José out of a job. However, employers quickly learned that demanding thir employees' physical presence is important to their maintenance of the whip hand. So unless one is positioned to work as an independent contractor, freelancing, Berners-Lee may as well have never invented the Web for the purposes of remote work. I've done nothing but move electrons about on silicon for years and years, and for the most technologically sophisticated employers in the world. The opportunities I have had to do my job remotely have now reached the staggering sum of zero. My networks of associates confirm my experience is not unusual.

    For these reasons and more I still consider paying cash for some land in Appalachia and going Galt, but this option presents its own challenges.
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  111. gilgongo says:

    https://moneyish.com/hoard/rents-in-san-francisco-and-these-4-other-cities-are-getting-slashed-like-crazy/

    Steve, Possible effect from the cause of decreased border crossings? Could it possibly happen this quick?

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  112. @Buck
    I confess that my advocacy of putting down roots is not something I've ever really done. I grew up a military brat and moved around the nation every few years of my childhood. I also roamed in my early adulthood with work. In middle aged prosperity, I split my time between two distinct and differing regions of the country. I've also lived overseas.

    All that to say I've come to appreciate the diversity and sameness of the entire U.S.. I've come to understand the rooters, those whose time in place leads to a real understanding. It's something my transient nature won't ever achieve. But my travels have found pockets of the country mostly unmolested by the policies of our betters. Almost every region of this country has its own beauty so it really comes down to where I can be comfortable and wealthy (California taxes are impoverishing). The internet has revolutionised economic mobility so working is not really a problem even in the remote areas.

    Looking for places outside of California is fairly easy as everywhere is less expensive. I look for nearly all white areas. They have high trust and low crime. Low taxes are important to me and a relative sign of the health of the government (smaller means more efficient).

    The internet [sic] has revolutionised economic mobility so working is not really a problem even in the remote areas.

    I’ve the impression you’re somewhat older than me, and liable to’ve achieved a modicum of independence during the sweet spot, as it were, but this statement is increasingly untrue.

    The Internet enables remote work, and it actually occurs in the context of, say, a gaggle of cheap Indians in Hyderabad putting programmers in San José out of a job. However, employers quickly learned that demanding thir employees’ physical presence is important to their maintenance of the whip hand. So unless one is positioned to work as an independent contractor, freelancing, Berners-Lee may as well have never invented the Web for the purposes of remote work. I’ve done nothing but move electrons about on silicon for years and years, and for the most technologically sophisticated employers in the world. The opportunities I have had to do my job remotely have now reached the staggering sum of zero. My networks of associates confirm my experience is not unusual.

    For these reasons and more I still consider paying cash for some land in Appalachia and going Galt, but this option presents its own challenges.

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  113. @Bill

    If you don’t understand the central importance of the network effect, it doesn’t matter if you have the exceptional encyclopaedic knowledge, analysis and synthesis of a Carroll Quigley — you will be intellectually impotent to preserve civilization against the weakness that is the flip-side of this foundational strength.
     
    True, but being intellectually potent really isn't the thing. You can out-reproduce outsiders without understanding much of anything. You can violently expel outsiders without understanding much of anything. I doubt most Indians have any deep understanding of connections between network economies and civilization, for example. Grab, grab, fuck, fight works pretty well.

    If you want to preserve civilization, you stop taxing all economic activities, eliminate “the state” as we know it and, instead, charge network effect wealth a use fee that is distributed, _directly_ to the able bodied men — evenly — as a dividend . . .
     
    Sure, we could do some untried utopian idea. That usually works out well. Or, we could just revert to some form of social organization which has worked in the past.

    “Sure, we could do some untried utopian idea. That usually works out well. Or, we could just revert to some form of social organization which has worked in the past.”

    To be rational you have to look at policy gradients and their correlations and base your decisions on the best-guess (inductive) extrapolations to current conditions.

    Network effect taxation appears approximated in early civilizations as land value taxation. Compensation of able bodied men for collective defense of collective territory (land) is, in effect, a citizen’s dividend.

    Land value taxation (ala Henry George) is the first-line defense against civilizational collapse. This is because civilization is founded on collective defense of agricultural territory. The second-line defense is avoidance of taxing human capital since human capital is as essential to armies as is money. Income tax is essentially a tax on human capital for most people.

    The Eastern Roman Empire outlasted the Western Empire. Here’s what I think may have happened in Byzantium: They relied on land value taxation more than did Rome during its decline. Although they had a “hearth tax” (much like a human capital tax) the introduction of monastery exemptions permitted human capital a refuge as monasteries began absorbing the peasantry into church owned lands.

    As Byzantium began to crack down on refuges for human capital it opened up vulnerability to Islam’s tax system as superior. Note that “jizya” — a human capital tax — applied only to dhimmis or non-Muslims. The “ushr”, harvest taxes, were an indirect tax on human capital but were also an indirect tax on land value (10% on irrigated harvests and 20% on harvests from land with natural waterfall). Moreover there is apparently some dispute as to whether ushr is permitted by the Quran.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_taxes

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