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One of the amusing aspects of being an old guy is reading breathless articles about some new breakthrough in the history of human thought, such as this New York Times article about how this lone marketing genius has noticed for the first time ever that women spend a lot of money and therefore big corporations might want to sign women athletes as endorsers.

With a World Cup Boost, an Agent Bets on Female Athletes

By Kevin Draper, July 11, 2019

Trying to take advantage of the ascendance of female athletes and the popularity of the most recent Women’s World Cup champions, one of the country’s leading sports agencies is forming a new division to work with companies to market to women through sports.

The sports and talent agency Wasserman, which represents more than half the members of the United States women’s national team, including Megan Rapinoe and Alex Morgan, will announce on Thursday that it is creating the Collective, a unit whose goal is to connect major companies, consumers and fans of every gender with some of the country’s best-known female athletes.

“We believe there is a significant opportunity for the athletes to attract meaningfully more marketing engagement and awareness and dollars,” Casey Wasserman, the company’s founder, said in an interview last week.

Hundreds of thousands of fans turned out on Wednesday to celebrate the women’s soccer team in New York, where team members and fans chanted “equal pay” together, highlighting how closely the team has connected itself to the business of its sport.

Who was the first woman athlete to get a ticker tape parade down Broadway? Gertrude Ederle after swimming the English Channel in 1926? Looks like it.

… Women were typecast as supporting players for sports fans and not as fans in their own right.

But Lindsey said she believes that is changing because of the power of female consumers. “They control the purse strings,” she said.

What a brilliant breakthrough insight. Why didn’t anybody ever notice that before?

… Rapinoe is one of a growing number of female American athletes who have become stars and who in many cases outshine their male counterparts. Morgan and Rapinoe are better known than most of the men’s national soccer team, and American women regularly win more Olympic medals than American men. In sports like tennis, running and gymnastics, the most famous American athletes are women.

In addition to running his company, Casey Wasserman is the chairman of L.A. 2028, the local organizing committee for the 2028 Olympics. In that capacity, he will be a part of the entity that is selling advertising for the United States Olympic Committee and for the three Olympics preceding 2028 as well. He said there was no conflict of interest between representing and selling L.A. 2028 and representing potential Olympic athletes and securing sponsorships for them through efforts like the Collective.

Men and women “care equally about sports; they just consume it in different ways for different reasons,” Lindsey said. To figure out what those reasons are, she said, just ask them.

“The best way to talk to women is to talk to women,” she said.

What a breakthrough concept: doing marketing research!

Lindsey said competition within this segment of the market could grow quickly, which is something she and colleagues welcomed. “I hope more people pay attention to this,” she said. “I hope people realize what a valuable demographic this audience is.”

I worked in market research from 1982-2000, so if only it had dawned on the marketing industry back then that women control the pursestrings!

Anyway, who was the most popular woman athlete in American history? I can’t find any figures for endorsements adjusted for the era.

Perhaps this is just my age, but my guess would be that number one in popularity for combining A) accomplishments over a sizable span of years in B) a big sport during C) a peak era for the sport, and being D) American and E) nice-looking and F) heterosexual would be … Chris Evert.

In the history of winning women’s tennis major championships, Evert is tied for 5th with her arch-rival Martina Navratilova with 18 majors, behind Margaret Court (24), Serena Williams (23), Steffi Graf (22), Helen Wills Moody (19), and well ahead of Billie Jean King (12).

Evert’s major championships stretched from 1974-1986, which was a prime era in American tennis history. Unlike golf, where the major championships were “open” to professionals and amateurs, the big tennis tournaments like Wimbledon and the US Open had barred professionals until 1968. So the best players, such as Rod Laver, were relegated to a small pro tour. The beginning of the Open Era quickly led to a boom in the 1970s as all the best players were finally in all the best tournaments.

 
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  1. “nice-looking and heterosexual”

    A hypothetical hot lesbian star athlete wouldn’t suffer because of her orientation.

    It might even help.

    • Replies: @Brutusale
    In the Internet Age, more guys have downloaded photos of Anna Kournikova than have heard of Chris Evert.
    , @Federalist
    True. But real lesbians hardly ever look like that.
    , @syonredux

    A hypothetical hot lesbian star athlete wouldn’t suffer because of her orientation.
     
    That's a very hypothetical proposition....
  2. We’re told that the national women’s team shirt is the best selling soccer shirt in the US. But what fraction of American shirt sales for all sports does that represent?

  3. Okay, if we give them sports can we have business back? Because lately the corporate world has devolved into virtue signalling, diversity training, role playing, and various proofs of Orwell’s scary prescience.

  4. Людмила Турищева.

    And if I have to explain who that is, shame on you.

    Also, please feel free to compare her extraordinarily classy behaviour with the relentless boorishness of, well, every American Athlete of the last 20 years.

    • Replies: @Cybele
    Ludmilla was amazing
  5. I don’t know what the correct answer is, but I know what it should be: Katrina Witt. Yowza.

    • Replies: @Twodees Partain
    In my opinion, the most famous woman athlete was little whatsername. I can't quite recall her face, either.
  6. The Open era came a couple of years too late for Pancho Gonzales who was about 40 when it happened (though he was still playing at the highest level) but not for Rod Laver, who won Wimbledon after a nine-year gap, iirc. Both Gonzales and Laver, along with Ken Rosewall and maybe Roy Emerson easily make it into any all-time greatest list in tennis. Life was hard in the ‘50s and ‘60s for Gonzales, a pioneer on the pro circuit, and he missed making serious money by just a year or two.

  7. Is tennis something that a lot of people watch? Or just a lot of people who make good money? Anyway, the most popular female American athlete in history, leaving aside weird constraints that take you back to (ugh) tennis, is Mary Lou Retton.

    • Agree: Autochthon
  8. We should thank Megan Rapinoe and the USWNT for teaching young girls to act like Odell Beckham Jr. That is what America needs.

  9. Chris Evert is a really good candidate. Younger people have no idea how popular tennis was with the masses in the 70s. And she was at the top when much of the top players on both tours were Americans. As a player she had no weapons except an incredible mental toughness that we no longer associate with US players on either tour. She would just refuse to miss against players who could outhit her.

    It’s interesting to see that after being a country club sport for the most part for 50 years and then a mass sport for about 10 years, then falling off the rails for 25 years, tennis is huge with the children of Asian immigrants (both south and east) in the US: check out the names of top ranked juniors some time. I believe Tiger Mom’s daughter was a good player.

    Meanwhile our top NCAA teams are full of European players looking for both experience and a free education. And the USTA pimps the hell out of any black player who can win a match ( e. g. Taylor Townsend and now Coco G). Interesting times.

    Interesting Tim

    Interesting times for the sport v

    • Replies: @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    Hold up, hold up. Chris Evert was a standard baseline player. She seldom ever (for most of her career) went to the net if she didn't have to, and until Martina Nvratilova came along, she didn't have to.

    Martina was the first woman to really go to the net, she actually played aggressive in that sense. Much like John McEnroe, they both made their careers on going to the net more than their rivals. Serve and volley. If Martina didn't come along, Evert would've won even more. Yes, she could return just about everything that came her way from other standard baseline players, but she couldn't fare as well when she had to constantly go to the net vs. Martina.

    Chris Evert also didn't have a massive powerful serve, compared to the Williams sisters of today. Remember, during the '70's they used wood rackets.
  10. Babe Zaharias. Not a great beauty but a pretty damn big deal.

  11. • LOL: jim jones, TWS, Thea
    • Replies: @TWS
    I had forgotten that. Thanks!
    , @Reg Cæsar
    With the exception of the boomerang, is that the high point of Aboriginal cultural influence worldwide?
  12. What if I told you that a woman figure skater could be a three-time Olympic gold medalist?

    That she could make a fortune doing professional ice shows, make the cover of Time, appear in a dozen or so movies, marry a tin heir who during their marriage would buy the Yankees, be married two more times, and at the time of her death in 1969 have earned more than any athlete ever?

    • Replies: @education realist
    Not sure why you think any of that is surprising. But there wasn't much competition.
  13. The most famous woman athlete ever is Caitlyn Jenner.

    Never mind Sports Illustrated. She made Vanity Fair.

  14. @Lot
    “nice-looking and heterosexual”

    A hypothetical hot lesbian star athlete wouldn’t suffer because of her orientation.

    It might even help.

    https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-5azYohaCjhs/W7Np1_zGiMI/AAAAAAAAJSI/jvsNlVk99RAOnpMDxTN6lcWNqutXDAvtwCLcBGAs/s1600/anna.jpg

    In the Internet Age, more guys have downloaded photos of Anna Kournikova than have heard of Chris Evert.

    • Agree: Joe Magarac
    • Replies: @SFG
    Given improvement of image quality over the years and plunging modesty standards, that's hardly surprising.

    The Museum of Sex in NYC (one of the few times I enjoy coming from a blue state) had a display of vintage porn from the 1920s and so on; you had those shaky camera reels you remember from history class, but of people with their clothes off, and cartoons of giant male members chasing women around. It was kind of funny to see how human nature never changes.

    I actually think a Christian with very strong moral principles might gain something from it--there was a cartoon of a guy carrying his, ah, equipment around in a wheelbarrow and chasing after women who weren't too excited about it. Some lesson about the enslavement of man to base desires or something. (I am not sarcastic.)

    (Their most recent stuff is atrociously feminist. Don't waste your time.)
    , @simple_pseudonymic_handle
    Kournikova is an interesting case because she was a very good but not great tennis player and her fame was derived solely from her hotness.

    I would offer the most appropriate person of my lifetime would have to be either a figure skater or a gymnast. Nadia Comenici, Mary Lou Retton, or Katerina Witt.

    https://learnodo-newtonic.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/Nadia-Comaneci-Facts-Featured-Image.jpg
  15. OT

    To deter crime, thirty parks try tinny tweeters to target troublesome teens

    Can You Hear It? Sonic Devices Play High-Pitched Noises To Repel Teens

    In Philadelphia, 30 parks and recreation centers are outfitted with a small speaker called the Mosquito. It blares a constant, high-pitched ringing noise all night long — but one that only teenagers and young adults can hear.

    Anyone over age 25 is supposed to be immune because, basically, their ear cells have started to die off.
    National
    Can you hear it? Listen here (30 seconds in)

    Philadelphia parks officials have been installing the device since 2014, reported WHYY’s Billy Penn, intending to shoo rowdy youths from the premises.

  16. Anybody who takes consumer advice from an athlete, male or female, is a dumbass…and there are plenty of them.

  17. “…fans of every gender”. GoofySpeak has become rooted at the NYT, hasn’t it.

    “Morgan and Rapinoe are better known than men players” . Well, relentless SJW-fueled major media propaganda will do that.

    The whole thing is just another gaslighting grifter operation: redefine second-rate to be first-rate, and demand more money which they don’t deserve. The cleverer minority groups in this country have this down to a formula. It works because all the institutions are controlled by manipulatable liberals. If sane people ran things, the grifters would simply be told to F off.

  18. I never found Chris Evert to be all that attractive. Now Anna K on the other hand…smoking hot!

  19. Given your interest in golf, Steve, I’m surprised that you didn’t mention Babe Didrikson Zaharias, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Babe_Didrikson_Zaharias, who started out winning two Olympic Gold Medals in track and field, and then went on to win 10 LPGA championships as a professional golfer. I’ve got zero interest in sports but still remember her name from a story in one of my elementary school or junior high school reading primers. (I used to read the damn things from cover to cover, to alleviate my classroom boredom.)

  20. Babe Didrikson Zaharias, who mastered every sport she competed in, was born 30 years too soon.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Babe_Didrikson_Zaharias

  21. “Hundreds of thousands of fans turned out on Wednesday to celebrate the women’s soccer team in New York, where team members and fans chanted “equal pay” together, highlighting how closely the team has connected itself to the business of its sport.”

    Real fans of real sports teams are more interested in supporting their teams than trying to effect social change or shouting political slogans. It just goes to show that sport for sport’s sake is much more a male thing.

    Maybe a few lesbians felt compelled to go and cheer the women’s team out of a sense of solidarity. But I doubt they will be buying season tickets and club scarves to go and watch women’s football every weekend.

    I suppose you could say that if men’s football is all about tribalism and nationalism, then women’s football is all about the lesbian version of nationalism–feminism. The actual football matches themselves are less important (and less interesting) than the ongoing grudge match against their team’s arch rival, Patriarchy United.

    • Replies: @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    "Maybe a few lesbians felt compelled to go and cheer the women’s team out of a sense of solidarity. But I doubt they will be buying season tickets and club scarves to go and watch women’s football every weekend."

    Right, because they already bought their WNBA season tickets and there's only so much solidarity to go around.
  22. A lot of times, the reason American women are so dominant at their sports is because the other countries don’t care as much and don’t devote as much effort to their women athletes as they do their men.

    It’s definitely evident in women’s soccer – as already discussed on this blog – but its also evident in sports like track, gymnastics, and figure skating too. Yes, there are obviously good athletes from other countries, but quite often they are by themselves and don’t have a whole system of clubs and universities behind them.

    The American university system and Title IX is a big part of it. Although opportunities for men got cut in the name of parity and in order to keep the football program alive, it forced colleges to devote more resources to niche women’s sports and that has paid off in terms of international competitiveness for these women. Same as the WNBA – if forced to stand on its own it would have folded 1-2 years but the NBA uses it as a loss leader to deflect criticism and it has done well at that job.

    The mention of pro basketball illustrates the whole situation very well: there are no famous women athletes as famous as the most famous men. The differentiator being that the famous men are playing sports that females don’t play at all. (Women don’t play football, softball is very weakly analogous to baseball, and once you get past junior high, women’s basketball and men’s basketball aren’t really the same game)

    So when it comes to niche international sports, the American women are more famous and often more successful than the American men because the best American men are off playing a different sport. Imagine if Todd Gurley or Antonio Brown or Cam Newton and players like them had grown up playing soccer… we’d have several world cups by now and no one in the USA would care at all about Megan Rapinoe.

  23. Heterosexual women rarely care about basketball, soccer, or any other team sport. The sports they do like watching most are figure skating and gymnastics. Among straight women, the most famous American athletes ever include Peggy Fleming, Dorothy Hammill and Mary Lou Retton.

    But go ahead, try using Megan Rapinoe and Brittney Griner to sell cosmetics and clothes. That’s sure to work.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    As the first American woman to win the Olympic figure skating gold, Peggy Fleming has had huge name recognition for 50 years.
    , @Anon

    But go ahead, try using Megan Rapinoe and Brittney Griner to sell cosmetics and clothes. That’s sure to work.
     
    Recently Japanese cosmetics companies have been featuring, let's say, non-beautiful, but well-known and popular, female Japanese comedians and celebrities in their ads. It occurred to me that it may be an attempt to sell their brands to less attractive customers who might respond to models "who look like me." The transformations of these people is quite remarkable. They can doll anyone up it seems. But knowing the way they really look, I almost want to gag. Seriously, there is something analogous the the male heterosexual disgust reaction to an M-to-F transexual going on, seeing a real dog caked up to look semi-attractive, when you know she's really a dog.
  24. One of the biggest problems with the current age is the inability to make proper distinctions and to use accurate definitions.

    Women structurally speaking do not always compete physically using the same modes that men do. Women’s team sports are just not comparable to men’s team sports. If we are talking about competitive athletics for women, we need to include, and in fact look much more closely at, things like gymnastics, ballet, beauty pageants, dance, and show biz.

    Who is the most famous woman athlete of all time?

    That’s easy. Madonna.

  25. OT: Massive New York blackout

    Does that even happen in major cities around the world, like
    London, Paris, Tokyo, etc, in this century? It’s embarrassing to what
    extent New York is becoming a Third World city. It’ll take trillions
    of dollars for NYC to upgrade its infrastructure, esp. the subway system
    and the power grid. Where is the money going to come from?
    Is there any engineering talent left in the city so devoted to
    entertainment, finance, real estate, and publishing? Does NYC
    even have great engineering schools anymore?

    • Replies: @syonredux

    OT: Massive New York blackout

    Does that even happen in major cities around the world, like
    London, Paris, Tokyo, etc, in this century?
     
    Yep. For example,




    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2003_London_blackout
  26. Babe Didrikson Zaharias was arguably the greatest female athlete but since she died in the 1950s I bet most people haven’t heard of her.

  27. Who Was the Most Famous Woman Athlete Ever?

    It has to be Bruce Jenner.

    According to the liberal orthodoxy Jenner is a woman, always has been. He/She says even a “boy” he thought he was a girl.

    Has there ever been another female athlete who’s surpassed the level of fame Jenner had in 1976 when he won gold in Montreal? I don’t think so.

  28. Dorothy Hamilton? Women Figure Skaters always get press, and endorsement deals.

  29. Is that Chris Evert or Chris Everett?

  30. Althea Gibson won several major tennis tournaments and on retirement from tennis became a professional golfer.

    In 1976 Gibson made it to the finals of the ABC television program Superstars, finishing first in basketball shooting and bowling, and runner-up in softball throwing.

    So why is one of America’s greatest athletes not better known? Your guess is as good as mine, but a clue could be that at golf tournaments she was sometimes required to change in her car as she was not allowed inside the clubhouse.

    Wilma Rudolph was also pretty famous in her time, famous enough to have a portrait in pastels hanging in our house in England. Having polio as a child, she had to wear a leg brace for several years, and ended up as the fastest woman in the world. In 2004, she had a USPS stamp in her honor, so lots of people had to lick her backside.

    Flo-Jo was the fastest woman of all time, so fast that her life over before she could bask in her fame.

    But the most famous athlete of them all is probably Serena Williams due to several factors.

    1. She had a sister with the unlikely name of Venus to play John the Baptist to her Jesus, and when she appeared she quickly eclipsed Venus, which gave her planetary status.

    2. She has been at the top for 20 years and played in the final of a major as recently as yesterday.

    3. She is a celebrity who is associated with many other celebrities like Oprah Winfrey and the Duchess of Suffolk.

    4. Her fame is global, and not local to the US.

    5. While she is married to a high profile internet entrepreneur, she is also well known for having “dated” many other well known men premaritally, evidence of her heterosexual bona fides.

    6. Her career has coincided with the existence of the Internet and she has a Twitter account with many followers.

    7. She has almost died a couple of times, but has come back to compete at the highest level, proving that she is superhuman.

    • Replies: @jimmyriddle
    Looks count for a lot, though.

    Before her drugs ban, Sharapova had more lucrative endorsement deals than Serenna. Anna Kournikova outearned pretty much everybody, despite barely being in the top 10.


    Serenna has only recently been pushed as fashion icon - part of the great awokening. Nobody really believes it.
    , @Dan Hayes
    Serena: Better Living Thru Chemistry!
    , @CromwellForever
    Agreed on all accounts. She would be more attractive without HGH and/or steroids, but as a spiritual Frenchman (I love black pussy) I think she's still pretty good looking and the fact that she's being LAVASH'D by Mr. Reddit gives me hope for my own dating life
    , @syonredux

    proving that she is superhuman.

     

    Steroids are a hell of a drug.....

    https://femuscleblog.files.wordpress.com/2015/09/serena_williams.jpg

    , @syonredux

    Althea Gibson won several major tennis tournaments and on retirement from tennis became a professional golfer.

    In 1976 Gibson made it to the finals of the ABC television program Superstars, finishing first in basketball shooting and bowling, and runner-up in softball throwing.

    So why is one of America’s greatest athletes not better known? Your guess is as good as mine,
     
    Have to be blunt. Black women are not attractive.
  31. Tonya Harding claims that for a period in the 1990s (after she won the National Championship and Nancy Kerrigan got whacked) she was the second most famous person, not just athlete, in the world. Could be.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    Tonya Harding claims that for a period in the 1990s (after she won the National Championship and Nancy Kerrigan got whacked) she was the second most famous person, not just athlete, in the world. Could be.
     
    So the Pope or the Queen finished above her. Who did Tonya edge out?
    , @International Jew
    Could be. Colin Kaepernick is also one of our most famous athletes.
  32. Who Was the Most Famous Woman Athlete Ever?

    Atalanta.

  33. https://youtube.com/watch?v=8gwIauHeGsY

    “Babe” Didrikson Zaharias was an American athlete who excelled in golf, basketball, baseball and track and field. She won two gold medals in track and field at the 1932 Summer Olympics, before turning to professional golf and winning 10 LPGA major championships.

    Before political correctness, Title IX, and the progressive leftist rule of America, Didrikson was probably the first great female athlete in the modern age.

  34. @Jenner Ickham Errican
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jjlrRql7iHk

    I had forgotten that. Thanks!

  35. @Jonathan Mason
    Althea Gibson won several major tennis tournaments and on retirement from tennis became a professional golfer.

    In 1976 Gibson made it to the finals of the ABC television program Superstars, finishing first in basketball shooting and bowling, and runner-up in softball throwing.

    So why is one of America's greatest athletes not better known? Your guess is as good as mine, but a clue could be that at golf tournaments she was sometimes required to change in her car as she was not allowed inside the clubhouse.

    Wilma Rudolph was also pretty famous in her time, famous enough to have a portrait in pastels hanging in our house in England. Having polio as a child, she had to wear a leg brace for several years, and ended up as the fastest woman in the world. In 2004, she had a USPS stamp in her honor, so lots of people had to lick her backside.

    Flo-Jo was the fastest woman of all time, so fast that her life over before she could bask in her fame.

    But the most famous athlete of them all is probably Serena Williams due to several factors.

    1. She had a sister with the unlikely name of Venus to play John the Baptist to her Jesus, and when she appeared she quickly eclipsed Venus, which gave her planetary status.

    2. She has been at the top for 20 years and played in the final of a major as recently as yesterday.

    3. She is a celebrity who is associated with many other celebrities like Oprah Winfrey and the Duchess of Suffolk.

    4. Her fame is global, and not local to the US.

    5. While she is married to a high profile internet entrepreneur, she is also well known for having "dated" many other well known men premaritally, evidence of her heterosexual bona fides.

    6. Her career has coincided with the existence of the Internet and she has a Twitter account with many followers.

    7. She has almost died a couple of times, but has come back to compete at the highest level, proving that she is superhuman.

    Looks count for a lot, though.

    Before her drugs ban, Sharapova had more lucrative endorsement deals than Serenna. Anna Kournikova outearned pretty much everybody, despite barely being in the top 10.

    Serenna has only recently been pushed as fashion icon – part of the great awokening. Nobody really believes it.

  36. @Jonathan Mason
    Althea Gibson won several major tennis tournaments and on retirement from tennis became a professional golfer.

    In 1976 Gibson made it to the finals of the ABC television program Superstars, finishing first in basketball shooting and bowling, and runner-up in softball throwing.

    So why is one of America's greatest athletes not better known? Your guess is as good as mine, but a clue could be that at golf tournaments she was sometimes required to change in her car as she was not allowed inside the clubhouse.

    Wilma Rudolph was also pretty famous in her time, famous enough to have a portrait in pastels hanging in our house in England. Having polio as a child, she had to wear a leg brace for several years, and ended up as the fastest woman in the world. In 2004, she had a USPS stamp in her honor, so lots of people had to lick her backside.

    Flo-Jo was the fastest woman of all time, so fast that her life over before she could bask in her fame.

    But the most famous athlete of them all is probably Serena Williams due to several factors.

    1. She had a sister with the unlikely name of Venus to play John the Baptist to her Jesus, and when she appeared she quickly eclipsed Venus, which gave her planetary status.

    2. She has been at the top for 20 years and played in the final of a major as recently as yesterday.

    3. She is a celebrity who is associated with many other celebrities like Oprah Winfrey and the Duchess of Suffolk.

    4. Her fame is global, and not local to the US.

    5. While she is married to a high profile internet entrepreneur, she is also well known for having "dated" many other well known men premaritally, evidence of her heterosexual bona fides.

    6. Her career has coincided with the existence of the Internet and she has a Twitter account with many followers.

    7. She has almost died a couple of times, but has come back to compete at the highest level, proving that she is superhuman.

    Serena: Better Living Thru Chemistry!

  37. @Jonathan Mason
    Althea Gibson won several major tennis tournaments and on retirement from tennis became a professional golfer.

    In 1976 Gibson made it to the finals of the ABC television program Superstars, finishing first in basketball shooting and bowling, and runner-up in softball throwing.

    So why is one of America's greatest athletes not better known? Your guess is as good as mine, but a clue could be that at golf tournaments she was sometimes required to change in her car as she was not allowed inside the clubhouse.

    Wilma Rudolph was also pretty famous in her time, famous enough to have a portrait in pastels hanging in our house in England. Having polio as a child, she had to wear a leg brace for several years, and ended up as the fastest woman in the world. In 2004, she had a USPS stamp in her honor, so lots of people had to lick her backside.

    Flo-Jo was the fastest woman of all time, so fast that her life over before she could bask in her fame.

    But the most famous athlete of them all is probably Serena Williams due to several factors.

    1. She had a sister with the unlikely name of Venus to play John the Baptist to her Jesus, and when she appeared she quickly eclipsed Venus, which gave her planetary status.

    2. She has been at the top for 20 years and played in the final of a major as recently as yesterday.

    3. She is a celebrity who is associated with many other celebrities like Oprah Winfrey and the Duchess of Suffolk.

    4. Her fame is global, and not local to the US.

    5. While she is married to a high profile internet entrepreneur, she is also well known for having "dated" many other well known men premaritally, evidence of her heterosexual bona fides.

    6. Her career has coincided with the existence of the Internet and she has a Twitter account with many followers.

    7. She has almost died a couple of times, but has come back to compete at the highest level, proving that she is superhuman.

    Agreed on all accounts. She would be more attractive without HGH and/or steroids, but as a spiritual Frenchman (I love black pussy) I think she’s still pretty good looking and the fact that she’s being LAVASH’D by Mr. Reddit gives me hope for my own dating life

  38. Who is the ugliest woman athlete ever?

    I cannot believe that white Reddit trillionaire guy married her and she had his baby.

  39. members of the United States women’s national team, including Megan Rapinoe and Alex Morgan, will announce on Thursday that it is creating the Collective, a unit whose goal is to connect major companies,

    The female predisposition to collectivism/communitarianism manages to shine through even in this hyper-individualistic epoch.

  40. SFG says:
    @Brutusale
    In the Internet Age, more guys have downloaded photos of Anna Kournikova than have heard of Chris Evert.

    Given improvement of image quality over the years and plunging modesty standards, that’s hardly surprising.

    The Museum of Sex in NYC (one of the few times I enjoy coming from a blue state) had a display of vintage porn from the 1920s and so on; you had those shaky camera reels you remember from history class, but of people with their clothes off, and cartoons of giant male members chasing women around. It was kind of funny to see how human nature never changes.

    I actually think a Christian with very strong moral principles might gain something from it–there was a cartoon of a guy carrying his, ah, equipment around in a wheelbarrow and chasing after women who weren’t too excited about it. Some lesson about the enslavement of man to base desires or something. (I am not sarcastic.)

    (Their most recent stuff is atrociously feminist. Don’t waste your time.)

  41. How about Babe Didrikson?

    Basketball, track and field, golf.

    She was may have been a pioneering tranny woman athlete, judging from her photos. I think there was at minimum some sort of testosterone malafunction or intersex thing going on there.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Didrikson-Zaharias probably didn't undergo puberty until her later 20s, after she won her Olympic gold medals in track and field. She then married a professional wrestling star, and they were enthusiastic heterosexuals, as attested by guests who were invited to spend the night in the Zaharias's spare bedroom. (This was before the invention of modern earplugs.)
  42. > What a breakthrough concept: doing marketing research!

    Steve, in this case your sarcasm is unjustified. The innovators profiled in this article really do deserve the NYT’s acclaim.

    > Wasserman will announce on Thursday that it is creating the Collective, a unit whose goal is to connect major companies, consumers and fans of every gender with some of the country’s best-known female athletes.

    Your ridicule would only make sense if the marketeers of 1982-2000 had channeled the spending of all 4 26 57 gender flavors.

    I suspect that the non-binary-gendered companies, consumers, and fans of your era were left to their own devices.

  43. @Brutusale
    In the Internet Age, more guys have downloaded photos of Anna Kournikova than have heard of Chris Evert.

    Kournikova is an interesting case because she was a very good but not great tennis player and her fame was derived solely from her hotness.

    I would offer the most appropriate person of my lifetime would have to be either a figure skater or a gymnast. Nadia Comenici, Mary Lou Retton, or Katerina Witt.

  44. While perhaps not the eye candy that Chris Evert was/is, Mildred (Babe) Didrikson Zaharias was every bit as famous and an athlete for a longer period of time.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Babe Didrikson Zaharias might have been the first Celebrity Cancer Survivor. Cancer wasn't talked about much before WWII because it was such a depressing death sentence. But medical treatments rapidly improved. It was a huge story when Babe came back from cancer surgery to win the 1954 US Women's Open in golf (her second main sport after track and field). I think President Eisenhower, a fanatical golfer, did something with her with to boost awareness of the successes of medical research into fighting cancer.

    Sadly, she soon relapsed and died. But others of us have reason to be thankful for the vast amount of progress the medical profession has made over the last century or so in fighting cancer.

  45. “The best way to talk to women is to talk to women,” she said.

    Do people actually listen to the words coming out of their mouths?

  46. Babe Didrikson? Sonja Henie?

  47. Back in the day, Babe Didrikson Zaharias. She excelled at several sports, but settled on golf. She was among the founders of the LPGA, and tops on the women’s tour for a considerable run of years. I seem to recall when Annika Sorenstam entered some men’s tournaments, she was said to be the first to attempt that since the Babe. Long married; of course, decades after her death there’s a collection of people claiming her for lesbianism with whatever sketchy bits of evidence they can gather or invent.

    • Replies: @R.G. Camara
    "Ever" is a long time.

    In American history, outside of Babe Didrikson Zaharias, I think you'd have to go to with someone like Esther Williams.

    Runners up: Mary Lou Retton or (perhaps) Nancy Kerrigan or Tonya Harding or Martina Navratilova or Katarina Witt.
    , @Hunsdon
    I berate you, good sir for you have stolen the famous female athlete on whom I came here to discourse. Nah man, I'm just kidding.
  48. Would people even care about Megan Rapinoe if she wasn’t a lesbian or an annoying SJW?

  49. Perhaps this is just my age, but my guess would be that number one in popularity for combining A) accomplishments over a sizable span of years in B) a big sport during C) a peak era for the sport, and being D) American and E) nice-looking and F) heterosexual would be … Chris Evert.

    Yes, if you set the criteria just right, you come up with Evert. Criteria D, E, and F are gratuitous and criterion C is debatable.

    • Replies: @syonredux

    Perhaps this is just my age, but my guess would be that number one in popularity for combining A) accomplishments over a sizable span of years in B) a big sport during C) a peak era for the sport, and being D) American and E) nice-looking and F) heterosexual would be … Chris Evert.

    Yes, if you set the criteria just right, you come up with Evert. Criteria D, E, and F are gratuitous and criterion C is debatable.
     
    Being good-looking is a massive plus for a female athlete:


    http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-L6VzvEiBMxY/USZLS7hXXTI/AAAAAAAAD2U/T-km5nTPPKQ/s1600/Maria+Sharapova+New+Picture+2013+15.jpg
  50. @Peter Akuleyev
    Tonya Harding claims that for a period in the 1990s (after she won the National Championship and Nancy Kerrigan got whacked) she was the second most famous person, not just athlete, in the world. Could be.

    Tonya Harding claims that for a period in the 1990s (after she won the National Championship and Nancy Kerrigan got whacked) she was the second most famous person, not just athlete, in the world. Could be.

    So the Pope or the Queen finished above her. Who did Tonya edge out?

    • Replies: @Days of Broken Arrows
    Jeff Gillooly.
  51. I don’t know about the most famous, but the first famous must have been Atalanta.



    She’s given her name to an automaker, aircraft, several British naval vessels, features on at least three continents, and an Italian football club.

    • Replies: @Oleaginous Outrager
    And Atalanta Bergamasca Calcio just had their best year ever! Coincidence?!?!

    You make the call.
    , @guest
    Can the buying public relate to a girl who grew up in the wilderness, fights centaurs, and has taken a vow of virginity?
    , @The Alarmist
    I guess we didn't spend our time studying the classics to no good end. I got mine in a bit earlier, but you did it classier. Well done ...

    http://www.unz.com/isteve/who-was-the-most-famous-woman-athlete-ever/#comment-3329430
  52. Well, of course, these days “history” means “stuff that happened during my lifetime”, so I can see Evert as a contender. I recall in the ‘70-80s the most universally watched women’s sports were tennis, figure skating, and gymnastics, and that most of your big name, Wheaties-box, product endorsing woman athletes came from those sports.

    But, then, were any of the sports women of that era (which I witnessed) really more “famous” – known to and loved by a vast section of the public – than Babe Didrikson or Sonja Henning?

    I’m not sure anyone can ever again be as universally famous as 20th century figures – seems to me that that was the peak period of mass communication; now the world seems to be divided up into smaller and smaller audiences with their own narrowing interests. I honestly was unaware there was a national women’s soccer team and that there was a women’s soccer world cup until several weeks ago when I happened to be in downtown LA and saw the giant projections of team members on skyscrapers there and thought, “who are these women exactly?”.

    When I was a kid and there were only three television networks and most people only had access to those and their locally produced daily newspaper, I don’t think one could possibly miss something that “big” in sports, even if you weren’t that interested in sports. I think the girl soccer thing is big in certain milieux, and since those people think they are the only people whose interests and opinions matter, then girl soccer is the biggest and most important thing EVER. Not to me.

    She may not be the most famous wahmun afflete in history, but my personal favorite, based on my own particular criteria, is Katarina Witt. Naturally I choose a Teutonic goddess, since I’m a Huwite Subpremises.

    • Agree: Old Prude
    • Replies: @Charles Pewitt
    Katarina Witt did a Playboy pictorial where she looked damned good -- some in black and white.

    She's in the in-between grouping of Teutons looks wise -- she ain't beautiful, but she ain't a gargoyle like some of them( Steffi Graff).

    Katerina Witt's selling point is that body. I bet she still has nice legs.

    It's time to let the Germans be Germans again. Kill the EU and the ECB and the euro currency and get the US military out of Germany. Let the Germans turn the screw and get a nuclear deterrent.

    The German return to the Deutschmark will kill a lot of German exports, but they'll get their sovereignty back.
    , @Marty T
    I was pretty young for Witt...but I do remember her fondly.
  53. “Men and women care equally about sports”? Uh, no, they certainly do not. You’ll learn this the hard way genius.

  54. I’m not sure that most women are drawn to lesbianism and social justice radicalism as grown ups, and they aren’t going to want it directed at their daughters. If women’s soccer wants to market itself that way, I would bet it would be a gift to the men’s league. If the men are better role models with better skills, the women will be playing in high school stadiums again before long. Why take your kids to what is basically a pride parade with soccer balls when you can watch men play soccer?

  55. — I think the Williams sisters as a pair have long since out-PR’d Evert, Martina or Billie Jean King.
    — Don’t forget swimmer Diana Nyad
    — Gymnast Nadia Comaneche was not American but was still enormously popular for a gurl
    — Australia’s most beloved athlete may well be the filly Winx

  56. Will heterosexuals buy something or other because a lesbian is plugging it?

  57. @Reg Cæsar

    Tonya Harding claims that for a period in the 1990s (after she won the National Championship and Nancy Kerrigan got whacked) she was the second most famous person, not just athlete, in the world. Could be.
     
    So the Pope or the Queen finished above her. Who did Tonya edge out?

    Jeff Gillooly.

  58. @Peter Akuleyev
    Tonya Harding claims that for a period in the 1990s (after she won the National Championship and Nancy Kerrigan got whacked) she was the second most famous person, not just athlete, in the world. Could be.

    Could be. Colin Kaepernick is also one of our most famous athletes.

  59. @Jonathan Mason
    Althea Gibson won several major tennis tournaments and on retirement from tennis became a professional golfer.

    In 1976 Gibson made it to the finals of the ABC television program Superstars, finishing first in basketball shooting and bowling, and runner-up in softball throwing.

    So why is one of America's greatest athletes not better known? Your guess is as good as mine, but a clue could be that at golf tournaments she was sometimes required to change in her car as she was not allowed inside the clubhouse.

    Wilma Rudolph was also pretty famous in her time, famous enough to have a portrait in pastels hanging in our house in England. Having polio as a child, she had to wear a leg brace for several years, and ended up as the fastest woman in the world. In 2004, she had a USPS stamp in her honor, so lots of people had to lick her backside.

    Flo-Jo was the fastest woman of all time, so fast that her life over before she could bask in her fame.

    But the most famous athlete of them all is probably Serena Williams due to several factors.

    1. She had a sister with the unlikely name of Venus to play John the Baptist to her Jesus, and when she appeared she quickly eclipsed Venus, which gave her planetary status.

    2. She has been at the top for 20 years and played in the final of a major as recently as yesterday.

    3. She is a celebrity who is associated with many other celebrities like Oprah Winfrey and the Duchess of Suffolk.

    4. Her fame is global, and not local to the US.

    5. While she is married to a high profile internet entrepreneur, she is also well known for having "dated" many other well known men premaritally, evidence of her heterosexual bona fides.

    6. Her career has coincided with the existence of the Internet and she has a Twitter account with many followers.

    7. She has almost died a couple of times, but has come back to compete at the highest level, proving that she is superhuman.

    proving that she is superhuman.

    Steroids are a hell of a drug…..

    • Replies: @pyrrhus
    Flo-Jo was so loaded that she died at 39...quite a price for winning Olympic medals...
    , @Lot
    Wimbledon’s Serena-slayer:

    https://www.gotceleb.com/wp-content/uploads/photos/simona-halep/2017-french-open-tennis-tournament-in-paris/Simona-Halep:-2017-French-Open-Tennis-Tournament--05.jpg
    , @The Wild Geese Howard
    Totally natty bro.

    Totally.

    Totes, you racist, you.
    , @jesse helms think-alike
    those guns!
    can you imagine being the poor guy that has to climb aboard -
    she could kill him with one swing of her fist
    , @Jonathan Mason

    Steroids are a hell of a drug…..
     
    Most of the top professional athletes seem to cheat in various ways with drugs and medicines, even if what they are doing is nominally legal, like claiming to suffer from some rare disease that needs performance improving medication, including Williams' opponents, so it is really difficult to exclude her.

    Some sports like cricket, golf, and soccer seem to be able to stay relatively well clear of drug scandals, whereas others like track, cycling, boxing, baseball, US football, and tennis are perpetually under a cloud of suspicion.

    In the case of golf it might just be that the sport's ruling bodies do a great job of covering up drug use. However cricket makes up for its lack of drugs with match-fixing and ball-tampering scandals.
    , @OilcanFloyd
    My experience is that steroids turn someone that you can compete with, or beat, into someone that you don't belong on the same field with.
  60. Off topic:

    African American museum founder discovered dead in car trunk

    Associated Press

    14 July 2019

    BATON ROUGE, Louisiana — A 75-year-old Louisiana woman who founded an African American history museum was discovered dead in the trunk of a car, and police said Saturday that investigators were working diligently to find those responsible.

    Baton Rouge police Sgt. L’Jean McKneely said investigators were still waiting for a coroner to determine a cause of death for Sadie Roberts-Joseph after her body was found Friday afternoon.

    The Advocate reported Roberts-Joseph was the founder and curator of the Baton Rouge African American Museum, which she started in 2001. The museum sits on the campus of New St. Luke Baptist Church, where Roberts-Joseph’s brother is pastor.

    “Ms. Sadie was a tireless advocate of peace,” the Baton Rouge Police Department posted on its Facebook page, adding: “Our detectives are working diligently to bring the person or persons responsible for this heinous act to justice.”

  61. Writing as a man who does not like sports and who has always been a bit perplexed by how much most men like sports, I find it highly implausible that men and women care equally about sports. It doesn’t even matter to me how vague and subject to interpretation that statement might be. No way.

  62. @Lot
    “nice-looking and heterosexual”

    A hypothetical hot lesbian star athlete wouldn’t suffer because of her orientation.

    It might even help.

    https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-5azYohaCjhs/W7Np1_zGiMI/AAAAAAAAJSI/jvsNlVk99RAOnpMDxTN6lcWNqutXDAvtwCLcBGAs/s1600/anna.jpg

    True. But real lesbians hardly ever look like that.

  63. @Art Deco
    Perhaps this is just my age, but my guess would be that number one in popularity for combining A) accomplishments over a sizable span of years in B) a big sport during C) a peak era for the sport, and being D) American and E) nice-looking and F) heterosexual would be … Chris Evert.

    Yes, if you set the criteria just right, you come up with Evert. Criteria D, E, and F are gratuitous and criterion C is debatable.

    Perhaps this is just my age, but my guess would be that number one in popularity for combining A) accomplishments over a sizable span of years in B) a big sport during C) a peak era for the sport, and being D) American and E) nice-looking and F) heterosexual would be … Chris Evert.

    Yes, if you set the criteria just right, you come up with Evert. Criteria D, E, and F are gratuitous and criterion C is debatable.

    Being good-looking is a massive plus for a female athlete:

    • Replies: @Anonymous

    Being good-looking is a massive plus for a female athlete

     

    Apparently not so in team sports.

    https://www.huffpost.com/entry/sabina-altynbekova-beautiful-volleyball_n_5625530

    Sabina Altynbekova Is Too Beautiful To Play Volleyball, Critics Say

    A teenage volleyball player from Kazakhstan is coming under fire, but it’s not because of her skills. It’s because of her looks.

    Critics say Sabina Altynbekova, 17, is so beautiful that it’s a distraction to the sport. Even the athlete’s own coach says his team is increasingly about one player, at least as far as the fans are concerned.

    “It is impossible to work like this,” Nurlan Sadikov, coach of the nation’s under-19 team, told Tengrin News in a quote translated by the Daily Mail. “The crowd behaves like there is only one player at the championship.”

    https://ilarge.lisimg.com/image/7502925/740full-sabina-altynbekova.jpg

     

    Sabina is not that stunning. What about Russian volleyball player, Alisa Manyonok?

    https://cdn.blogarama.com/images/posts_thumbs_site_id/2033/203340-27228466.jpg
     
  64. @Lot
    “nice-looking and heterosexual”

    A hypothetical hot lesbian star athlete wouldn’t suffer because of her orientation.

    It might even help.

    https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-5azYohaCjhs/W7Np1_zGiMI/AAAAAAAAJSI/jvsNlVk99RAOnpMDxTN6lcWNqutXDAvtwCLcBGAs/s1600/anna.jpg

    A hypothetical hot lesbian star athlete wouldn’t suffer because of her orientation.

    That’s a very hypothetical proposition….

  65. @syonredux

    proving that she is superhuman.

     

    Steroids are a hell of a drug.....

    https://femuscleblog.files.wordpress.com/2015/09/serena_williams.jpg

    Flo-Jo was so loaded that she died at 39…quite a price for winning Olympic medals…

  66. Anonymous[407] • Disclaimer says:

    Frenchmen wrote both Planet of the Apes and Camp of Saints.


    Was it the Algerian experience that sobered them up? Whereas Anglo colonies were far away, French Algeria was very near. And in Algeria, the French already experienced something like a future scenario where Europeans become outnumbered by the Other, not merely as colonists but inhabitants as the French were numerous and well-entrenched in Algeria.

    Of course, with the passage of time, people from all over went to UK as well, but when the Brits let go of their colonies, the Other seemed far far away. But Algeria seemed so very close even after the French left North Africa.

  67. Also the Steffi Graf Sports Illustrated swimsuit is classic.

  68. Anonymous[407] • Disclaimer says:

    Nationalism for me but not for thee.

  69. @Art Deco
    Back in the day, Babe Didrikson Zaharias. She excelled at several sports, but settled on golf. She was among the founders of the LPGA, and tops on the women's tour for a considerable run of years. I seem to recall when Annika Sorenstam entered some men's tournaments, she was said to be the first to attempt that since the Babe. Long married; of course, decades after her death there's a collection of people claiming her for lesbianism with whatever sketchy bits of evidence they can gather or invent.

    “Ever” is a long time.

    In American history, outside of Babe Didrikson Zaharias, I think you’d have to go to with someone like Esther Williams.

    Runners up: Mary Lou Retton or (perhaps) Nancy Kerrigan or Tonya Harding or Martina Navratilova or Katarina Witt.

  70. I’m going with Caitlyn Jenner. Close second: Dr. Renee Richards.

  71. @syonredux

    proving that she is superhuman.

     

    Steroids are a hell of a drug.....

    https://femuscleblog.files.wordpress.com/2015/09/serena_williams.jpg

    Wimbledon’s Serena-slayer:

    • Replies: @syonredux
    Ya gotta do whatever it takes to win....

    Would a woman mutilate herself, slice off the most intimate, tender part of her body, for the sake of her career?
     

    It’s a controversial topic and one that provoked heated debate last week after Romanian tennis player Simona Halep admitted she’d done just that.

     


    At the age of 17, Simona decided that nothing would stand in the way of her ambition to make it to the top in tennis.
     

    Tired of her game being hindered by what one blogger rather patronisingly described as ‘those funbags’, she underwent breast reduction surgery two years ago to reduce her measurements from a 34DD to a 34C.
     
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2008894/Breast-reduction-boosted-career-didnt-bring-happiness.html
    , @syonredux
    After and Before:


    https://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2011/06/21/article-2006063-0CAA4ABE00000578-721_1024x615_large.jpg

    , @The Wild Geese Howard
    This is possibly just an unfortunate angle and moment for Simona.

    We have years and tens of thousands of images of Steroid-a looking like an NFL free safety in motion and at rest.
  72. Babe Didrikson Zaharias
    Helen Wills Moody
    Nancy Lopez
    Peggy Fleming
    Sonja Henie

    Would have to be on the list. Needless to say, Tennis, golf, and figure skating are the roads to fame for a woman athlete – with gymnastics and track and field in the mix.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Good list.

    Male sportswriters of the Damon Runyon - Paul Gallico generation loved Babe Didrikson Zaharias. She had a Babe Ruth-like or proto-Muhammad Ali-like personality, but was even more boastful, which made for colorful copy. Her fellow women athletes couldn't stand her, though.

  73. Product endorsement until the advent of Colin Kaepernick was not the province of the most famous or ‘best’ athlete but the most pleasant personality. George Foreman and Shaq still do lots of TV ads even though their athletic careers are long over and despite being extremely large and powerful negro men Same could be said for Frank Thomas who also still appears in TV ads. They look friendly not hostile or menacing.

    Soccer, in the US, is seen as a more milquetoast sport appealing to suburban soccer moms so would they identify with a lesbian with a punk/ butch haircut like Rapinoe? I doubt it so Rapinoe isn’t going to sell them SUVs , beauty or fashion products. Doc Martins might want to use her though as she would appeal to the Antifa crowd though the demographics of that bunch probably isn’t upscale.

    • Replies: @Lot
    “but the most pleasant personality.“

    Any examples of a superstar athlete who was weak on endorsement money because he was unpleasant or just bland (aside from felons and wife beaters)?

    Maybe some of the top latin american baseball players with weak English.
  74. @Lot
    Wimbledon’s Serena-slayer:

    https://www.gotceleb.com/wp-content/uploads/photos/simona-halep/2017-french-open-tennis-tournament-in-paris/Simona-Halep:-2017-French-Open-Tennis-Tournament--05.jpg

    Ya gotta do whatever it takes to win….

    Would a woman mutilate herself, slice off the most intimate, tender part of her body, for the sake of her career?

    It’s a controversial topic and one that provoked heated debate last week after Romanian tennis player Simona Halep admitted she’d done just that.

    At the age of 17, Simona decided that nothing would stand in the way of her ambition to make it to the top in tennis.

    Tired of her game being hindered by what one blogger rather patronisingly described as ‘those funbags’, she underwent breast reduction surgery two years ago to reduce her measurements from a 34DD to a 34C.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2008894/Breast-reduction-boosted-career-didnt-bring-happiness.html

    • Replies: @Peter Akuleyev
    Breast reduction surgery is not that uncommon even among non-athletes. Carrying around double Ds is hell on your back and can result in complications later in life. It is easier to have some of that fat removed. It's a far less intrusive surgery than having your foreskin chopped off.
    , @MrLiberty
    Breast reduction surgery is hardly "slicing off the most intimate part of her body." It is a well-established procedure that more and more women are having done as the presence of hormones in the food and hormone mimics in the plastics (BPA) are causing more and more women to develop unusually large breasts. I would say that 34DD is something that would be painful to carry around for one's life, with or without a planned career in tennis. Some women with long hair get it cut so it doesn't keep getting caught in the racket during a serve. Good for her for addressing what likely would have turned into a major back issue later in life. And it certainly isn't anything close to taking dangerous steroids to enhance one's performance.
  75. @Lot
    Wimbledon’s Serena-slayer:

    https://www.gotceleb.com/wp-content/uploads/photos/simona-halep/2017-french-open-tennis-tournament-in-paris/Simona-Halep:-2017-French-Open-Tennis-Tournament--05.jpg

    After and Before:

    • Replies: @JimB

    After and Before
     
    A crime against nature! Anyway, the resulting change in her style from breast reduction was probably a mixed (fun) bag. A larger chest increased her upper body moment of inertia giving her more power and better follow through in the back court. It may have also improved her serve. Any kinesiologists out there want to weigh in with an expert opinion?
    , @Lot
    The before-breasts appear to defy gravity, and the after are still well proportioned.
    , @Laurence Whelk
    That’s a shame.

    I understand “my body; my choice”.

    But I also defend “my eyes; my aesthetic judgments”.
    , @BenKenobi
    Crime against humanity. Whoever did that surgery should stand trial at The Hague.

    OT:
    https://www.mediaite.com/politics/trump-says-ilhan-omar-should-go-back-to-africa-you-cant-leave-fast-enough/

    And heeeeeeere come the pretzels!
  76. @Jonathan Mason
    Althea Gibson won several major tennis tournaments and on retirement from tennis became a professional golfer.

    In 1976 Gibson made it to the finals of the ABC television program Superstars, finishing first in basketball shooting and bowling, and runner-up in softball throwing.

    So why is one of America's greatest athletes not better known? Your guess is as good as mine, but a clue could be that at golf tournaments she was sometimes required to change in her car as she was not allowed inside the clubhouse.

    Wilma Rudolph was also pretty famous in her time, famous enough to have a portrait in pastels hanging in our house in England. Having polio as a child, she had to wear a leg brace for several years, and ended up as the fastest woman in the world. In 2004, she had a USPS stamp in her honor, so lots of people had to lick her backside.

    Flo-Jo was the fastest woman of all time, so fast that her life over before she could bask in her fame.

    But the most famous athlete of them all is probably Serena Williams due to several factors.

    1. She had a sister with the unlikely name of Venus to play John the Baptist to her Jesus, and when she appeared she quickly eclipsed Venus, which gave her planetary status.

    2. She has been at the top for 20 years and played in the final of a major as recently as yesterday.

    3. She is a celebrity who is associated with many other celebrities like Oprah Winfrey and the Duchess of Suffolk.

    4. Her fame is global, and not local to the US.

    5. While she is married to a high profile internet entrepreneur, she is also well known for having "dated" many other well known men premaritally, evidence of her heterosexual bona fides.

    6. Her career has coincided with the existence of the Internet and she has a Twitter account with many followers.

    7. She has almost died a couple of times, but has come back to compete at the highest level, proving that she is superhuman.

    Althea Gibson won several major tennis tournaments and on retirement from tennis became a professional golfer.

    In 1976 Gibson made it to the finals of the ABC television program Superstars, finishing first in basketball shooting and bowling, and runner-up in softball throwing.

    So why is one of America’s greatest athletes not better known? Your guess is as good as mine,

    Have to be blunt. Black women are not attractive.

    • Replies: @Jake
    She was a dyke, and the media then hid it for her, as part of helping 'civil rights.'
    , @Laurence Whelk
    “Have to be blunt. Black women are not attractive.”

    I’d submit, to be more precise, black women ARE attractive to the degree that their appearance and demeanor is more European (or Asian, depending on preference) and less African.

    Which is probably correlated to their degree of European (or Asian) ancestry.
  77. @syonredux

    proving that she is superhuman.

     

    Steroids are a hell of a drug.....

    https://femuscleblog.files.wordpress.com/2015/09/serena_williams.jpg

    Totally natty bro.

    Totally.

    Totes, you racist, you.

  78. @Lot
    Wimbledon’s Serena-slayer:

    https://www.gotceleb.com/wp-content/uploads/photos/simona-halep/2017-french-open-tennis-tournament-in-paris/Simona-Halep:-2017-French-Open-Tennis-Tournament--05.jpg

    This is possibly just an unfortunate angle and moment for Simona.

    We have years and tens of thousands of images of Steroid-a looking like an NFL free safety in motion and at rest.

  79. Or maybe there are a lot more lesbians now and they are a major market.

  80. @syonredux
    After and Before:


    https://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2011/06/21/article-2006063-0CAA4ABE00000578-721_1024x615_large.jpg

    After and Before

    A crime against nature! Anyway, the resulting change in her style from breast reduction was probably a mixed (fun) bag. A larger chest increased her upper body moment of inertia giving her more power and better follow through in the back court. It may have also improved her serve. Any kinesiologists out there want to weigh in with an expert opinion?

    • Replies: @syonredux

    A larger chest increased her upper body moment of inertia giving her more power and better follow through in the back court. It may have also improved her serve. Any kinesiologists out there want to weigh in with an expert opinion?
     
    I know some female tennis players who gained breast mass as a result of pregnancy. According to them, it hindered their game.
  81. @syonredux
    After and Before:


    https://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2011/06/21/article-2006063-0CAA4ABE00000578-721_1024x615_large.jpg

    The before-breasts appear to defy gravity, and the after are still well proportioned.

    • Replies: @syonredux
    http://images2.fanpop.com/image/photos/13700000/simona-halep-tennis-13706525-900-636.jpg

    vs

    https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-_wi7eEnanXI/WjaQUSQAkqI/AAAAAAAAHQ4/dycmBDGK6WYNmPBSJNrumKGG9KUwrDXSgCLcBGAs/s1600/halep23.jpg

    , @Marty T
    Halep probably looks better with the smaller boobs.

    In the last couple decades the most prominent female athlete is Serena, unfortunately. I'm glad she lost yesterday.

    Among the women's soccer players, Alex Morgan is probably the most marketable.
  82. Chris Evert might be the most popular, but Billie Jean King might be the best known.

    As for this silliness,

    … Rapinoe is one of a growing number of female American athletes who have become stars and who in many cases outshine their male counterparts. Morgan and Rapinoe are better known than most of the men’s national soccer team, and American women regularly win more Olympic medals than American men.

    Rapinoe reminds me a bit of Michelle Obama in that praising her looks has become a kind of performative wokeness. Unlike Michelle Obama, though, Rapinoe has zero class.

    Arguably, Julie Ertz is more famous than Alex Morgan, because she is the pretty wife of NFL tight end Zach Ertz.

    As for whether Morgan and Rapinoe “outshine” their male colleagues: the best soccer player in America is arguably Chris Pulisic. He’s 20 years old, and will be playing for Chelsea next season, after starting his pro career in Germany. Lebron James shared an Instagram of him wearing Pulisic’s jersey last year. In a year, Pulisic will likely be more famous than any of these women soccer players.

    • Replies: @Dave Pinsen
    https://twitter.com/thehill/status/1150366603806236672
    , @JimB
    Rapinoe has an ugly hatchet face and no curves besides a Stair Master butt. She should be cast as Frieda Club when the Confederacy of Dunces finally gets green lighted by Warner Brothers.
    , @Lot
    “praising her looks has become a kind of performative wokeness”

    Aside from her face, she has a perfect muscle-girl look, especially the fact her TnA are not screwed up. With a lot of face makeup or airbrushing, she could be a covergirl on a bodybuilding magazine.

    This is a minority taste among the gen-pop, but I think a lot of serious male bodybuilders like it.

    https://pre00.deviantart.net/b8cf/th/pre/i/2017/042/2/c/stronger_girls__1_by_lingster-dayq2kl.png

    As fetishes go, muscular women is socially innocuous.
  83. I’m inclined to say Nadia Comaneci was the most famous woman athlete from the Evert era if not all time. Her career didn’t last as long but achieving perfection for the first time by anyone in the Olympics, and at an incredibly young age, made her appear superhuman.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Nadia Comaneci

    A definite contender for worldwide fame, although hindered by the partial boycott of the 1980 Olympics. I specifically asked about American fame.

  84. @Lot
    The before-breasts appear to defy gravity, and the after are still well proportioned.

    vs

    • Replies: @Lot
    I sympathize. Dated a sporty girl with Ds. She tried one sports bra after another, each one flawed in some way. Sometimes she wore two at the same time.
  85. @syonredux
    After and Before:


    https://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2011/06/21/article-2006063-0CAA4ABE00000578-721_1024x615_large.jpg

    That’s a shame.

    I understand “my body; my choice”.

    But I also defend “my eyes; my aesthetic judgments”.

  86. @syonredux

    proving that she is superhuman.

     

    Steroids are a hell of a drug.....

    https://femuscleblog.files.wordpress.com/2015/09/serena_williams.jpg

    those guns!
    can you imagine being the poor guy that has to climb aboard –
    she could kill him with one swing of her fist

  87. Who Was the Most Famous Woman Athlete Ever?

    In my day, Evonne Goolagong.

    • Replies: @Art Deco
    ?

    Goolagong was appealing and capable, but she was second fiddle to Evert at her peak and not quite the champion Margaret Court had been.
  88. Anonymous[388] • Disclaimer says:
    @syonredux

    Perhaps this is just my age, but my guess would be that number one in popularity for combining A) accomplishments over a sizable span of years in B) a big sport during C) a peak era for the sport, and being D) American and E) nice-looking and F) heterosexual would be … Chris Evert.

    Yes, if you set the criteria just right, you come up with Evert. Criteria D, E, and F are gratuitous and criterion C is debatable.
     
    Being good-looking is a massive plus for a female athlete:


    http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-L6VzvEiBMxY/USZLS7hXXTI/AAAAAAAAD2U/T-km5nTPPKQ/s1600/Maria+Sharapova+New+Picture+2013+15.jpg

    Being good-looking is a massive plus for a female athlete

    Apparently not so in team sports.

    https://www.huffpost.com/entry/sabina-altynbekova-beautiful-volleyball_n_5625530

    Sabina Altynbekova Is Too Beautiful To Play Volleyball, Critics Say

    A teenage volleyball player from Kazakhstan is coming under fire, but it’s not because of her skills. It’s because of her looks.

    Critics say Sabina Altynbekova, 17, is so beautiful that it’s a distraction to the sport. Even the athlete’s own coach says his team is increasingly about one player, at least as far as the fans are concerned.

    “It is impossible to work like this,” Nurlan Sadikov, coach of the nation’s under-19 team, told Tengrin News in a quote translated by the Daily Mail. “The crowd behaves like there is only one player at the championship.”

    Sabina is not that stunning. What about Russian volleyball player, Alisa Manyonok?

    • Replies: @The Last Real Calvinist
    I remember the Sabina story. It's no coincidence it broke when her team was playing in a tournament in Taiwan. Sabina's look is an absolute bullseye hit for the East Asian female beauty aesthetic.

    The photo of her you've posted actually makes her look a bit angular and harsh. In other photos she looks softer and more 'kawaii':

    https://articlebio.com/uploads/2014/S/Sabina-Altynbekova.jpg

    In fact, that a quick image search reveals that someone's anime-ized Sabina, mostly retaining her facial structure, but of course throwing in some blue eyes:

    https://cdna.artstation.com/p/assets/images/images/002/819/346/large/alam-nuralam-sabina-copy.jpg?1466079907
  89. @Dave Pinsen
    Chris Evert might be the most popular, but Billie Jean King might be the best known.

    As for this silliness,

    … Rapinoe is one of a growing number of female American athletes who have become stars and who in many cases outshine their male counterparts. Morgan and Rapinoe are better known than most of the men’s national soccer team, and American women regularly win more Olympic medals than American men.
     
    Rapinoe reminds me a bit of Michelle Obama in that praising her looks has become a kind of performative wokeness. Unlike Michelle Obama, though, Rapinoe has zero class.

    https://twitter.com/dpinsen/status/1149741781199667201

    Arguably, Julie Ertz is more famous than Alex Morgan, because she is the pretty wife of NFL tight end Zach Ertz.

    As for whether Morgan and Rapinoe "outshine" their male colleagues: the best soccer player in America is arguably Chris Pulisic. He's 20 years old, and will be playing for Chelsea next season, after starting his pro career in Germany. Lebron James shared an Instagram of him wearing Pulisic's jersey last year. In a year, Pulisic will likely be more famous than any of these women soccer players.

    • Replies: @Laurence Whelk
    Because she’s so diplomatic?

    (Press-titute) “Secretary Rapey-No, will you be meeting with Saudi ambassador next month?”

    (Secretary Rapey-No) “(smirk, snort) he-he, No, I’m not talking to the effing Saudis. They don’t let women drive, much less marry the woman xey love. They don’t like people-who-look-like-me, so eff ‘em.”
    , @Steve in Greensboro
    I feel about this creature like the left feels about America.
  90. @Dave Pinsen
    Chris Evert might be the most popular, but Billie Jean King might be the best known.

    As for this silliness,

    … Rapinoe is one of a growing number of female American athletes who have become stars and who in many cases outshine their male counterparts. Morgan and Rapinoe are better known than most of the men’s national soccer team, and American women regularly win more Olympic medals than American men.
     
    Rapinoe reminds me a bit of Michelle Obama in that praising her looks has become a kind of performative wokeness. Unlike Michelle Obama, though, Rapinoe has zero class.

    https://twitter.com/dpinsen/status/1149741781199667201

    Arguably, Julie Ertz is more famous than Alex Morgan, because she is the pretty wife of NFL tight end Zach Ertz.

    As for whether Morgan and Rapinoe "outshine" their male colleagues: the best soccer player in America is arguably Chris Pulisic. He's 20 years old, and will be playing for Chelsea next season, after starting his pro career in Germany. Lebron James shared an Instagram of him wearing Pulisic's jersey last year. In a year, Pulisic will likely be more famous than any of these women soccer players.

    Rapinoe has an ugly hatchet face and no curves besides a Stair Master butt. She should be cast as Frieda Club when the Confederacy of Dunces finally gets green lighted by Warner Brothers.

  91. @syonredux

    Althea Gibson won several major tennis tournaments and on retirement from tennis became a professional golfer.

    In 1976 Gibson made it to the finals of the ABC television program Superstars, finishing first in basketball shooting and bowling, and runner-up in softball throwing.

    So why is one of America’s greatest athletes not better known? Your guess is as good as mine,
     
    Have to be blunt. Black women are not attractive.

    She was a dyke, and the media then hid it for her, as part of helping ‘civil rights.’

  92. @syonredux
    Ya gotta do whatever it takes to win....

    Would a woman mutilate herself, slice off the most intimate, tender part of her body, for the sake of her career?
     

    It’s a controversial topic and one that provoked heated debate last week after Romanian tennis player Simona Halep admitted she’d done just that.

     


    At the age of 17, Simona decided that nothing would stand in the way of her ambition to make it to the top in tennis.
     

    Tired of her game being hindered by what one blogger rather patronisingly described as ‘those funbags’, she underwent breast reduction surgery two years ago to reduce her measurements from a 34DD to a 34C.
     
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2008894/Breast-reduction-boosted-career-didnt-bring-happiness.html

    Breast reduction surgery is not that uncommon even among non-athletes. Carrying around double Ds is hell on your back and can result in complications later in life. It is easier to have some of that fat removed. It’s a far less intrusive surgery than having your foreskin chopped off.

    • Replies: @Jonathan Mason

    It’s a far less intrusive surgery than having your foreskin chopped off.
     
    Many top swimmers and cyclists have undergone circumcision to improve their hydrodynamic flow. Mostly women, of course.
    , @syonredux

    Breast reduction surgery is not that uncommon even among non-athletes.
     
    Yeah, but having a highly feminine body makes athletics tough.Look at Katarina Witt. Her ample endowments were a significant hindrance:

    http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-8XtyK8ucym8/UcbBoUTRrxI/AAAAAAAAP9E/CSDLgbn7Law/s1600/Katarina-Witt_swimsuit-wet.jpg


    Sports favor women with boyish bodies.
  93. @syonredux
    Ya gotta do whatever it takes to win....

    Would a woman mutilate herself, slice off the most intimate, tender part of her body, for the sake of her career?
     

    It’s a controversial topic and one that provoked heated debate last week after Romanian tennis player Simona Halep admitted she’d done just that.

     


    At the age of 17, Simona decided that nothing would stand in the way of her ambition to make it to the top in tennis.
     

    Tired of her game being hindered by what one blogger rather patronisingly described as ‘those funbags’, she underwent breast reduction surgery two years ago to reduce her measurements from a 34DD to a 34C.
     
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2008894/Breast-reduction-boosted-career-didnt-bring-happiness.html

    Breast reduction surgery is hardly “slicing off the most intimate part of her body.” It is a well-established procedure that more and more women are having done as the presence of hormones in the food and hormone mimics in the plastics (BPA) are causing more and more women to develop unusually large breasts. I would say that 34DD is something that would be painful to carry around for one’s life, with or without a planned career in tennis. Some women with long hair get it cut so it doesn’t keep getting caught in the racket during a serve. Good for her for addressing what likely would have turned into a major back issue later in life. And it certainly isn’t anything close to taking dangerous steroids to enhance one’s performance.

  94. @syonredux

    proving that she is superhuman.

     

    Steroids are a hell of a drug.....

    https://femuscleblog.files.wordpress.com/2015/09/serena_williams.jpg

    Steroids are a hell of a drug…..

    Most of the top professional athletes seem to cheat in various ways with drugs and medicines, even if what they are doing is nominally legal, like claiming to suffer from some rare disease that needs performance improving medication, including Williams’ opponents, so it is really difficult to exclude her.

    Some sports like cricket, golf, and soccer seem to be able to stay relatively well clear of drug scandals, whereas others like track, cycling, boxing, baseball, US football, and tennis are perpetually under a cloud of suspicion.

    In the case of golf it might just be that the sport’s ruling bodies do a great job of covering up drug use. However cricket makes up for its lack of drugs with match-fixing and ball-tampering scandals.

    • Replies: @syonredux

    Steroids are a hell of a drug…..

    Most of the top professional athletes seem to cheat in various ways with drugs and medicines, even if what they are doing is nominally legal, like claiming to suffer from some rare disease that needs performance improving medication, including Williams’ opponents, so it is really difficult to exclude her.
     
    I'm just amazed by the fact that no one talks about Serena's obvious steroid use:



    https://i.pinimg.com/originals/dc/ca/f7/dccaf78f3c6cd5eb0c57e45955404615.


    http://cdn-s3.si.com/s3fs-public/si/multimedia/photo_gallery/1102/muscles/images/serena-williams.jpg


    https://cdn.images.express.co.uk/img/dynamic/78/590x/secondary/women-427442.jpg
  95. @Peter Akuleyev
    Breast reduction surgery is not that uncommon even among non-athletes. Carrying around double Ds is hell on your back and can result in complications later in life. It is easier to have some of that fat removed. It's a far less intrusive surgery than having your foreskin chopped off.

    It’s a far less intrusive surgery than having your foreskin chopped off.

    Many top swimmers and cyclists have undergone circumcision to improve their hydrodynamic flow. Mostly women, of course.

  96. @syonredux
    http://images2.fanpop.com/image/photos/13700000/simona-halep-tennis-13706525-900-636.jpg

    vs

    https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-_wi7eEnanXI/WjaQUSQAkqI/AAAAAAAAHQ4/dycmBDGK6WYNmPBSJNrumKGG9KUwrDXSgCLcBGAs/s1600/halep23.jpg

    I sympathize. Dated a sporty girl with Ds. She tried one sports bra after another, each one flawed in some way. Sometimes she wore two at the same time.

    • Replies: @syonredux

    I sympathize. Dated a sporty girl with Ds. She tried one sports bra after another, each one flawed in some way. Sometimes she wore two at the same time.
     
    Being an athlete with a highly feminine body is tough.....
  97. @Dave Pinsen
    https://twitter.com/thehill/status/1150366603806236672

    Because she’s so diplomatic?

    (Press-titute) “Secretary Rapey-No, will you be meeting with Saudi ambassador next month?”

    (Secretary Rapey-No) “(smirk, snort) he-he, No, I’m not talking to the effing Saudis. They don’t let women drive, much less marry the woman xey love. They don’t like people-who-look-like-me, so eff ‘em.”

  98. @Jonathan Mason

    Steroids are a hell of a drug…..
     
    Most of the top professional athletes seem to cheat in various ways with drugs and medicines, even if what they are doing is nominally legal, like claiming to suffer from some rare disease that needs performance improving medication, including Williams' opponents, so it is really difficult to exclude her.

    Some sports like cricket, golf, and soccer seem to be able to stay relatively well clear of drug scandals, whereas others like track, cycling, boxing, baseball, US football, and tennis are perpetually under a cloud of suspicion.

    In the case of golf it might just be that the sport's ruling bodies do a great job of covering up drug use. However cricket makes up for its lack of drugs with match-fixing and ball-tampering scandals.

    Steroids are a hell of a drug…..

    Most of the top professional athletes seem to cheat in various ways with drugs and medicines, even if what they are doing is nominally legal, like claiming to suffer from some rare disease that needs performance improving medication, including Williams’ opponents, so it is really difficult to exclude her.

    I’m just amazed by the fact that no one talks about Serena’s obvious steroid use:

    https://i.pinimg.com/originals/dc/ca/f7/dccaf78f3c6cd5eb0c57e45955404615.

    • Replies: @George
    "Serena’s obvious steroid"

    Take a look at Halep's 'guns'. At least Williams is married (to a guy) and a mother.
    , @Ali Choudhury
    She's black and works out a lot to maximise her power. She seems to have been extensively drug-tested based on public comments. If anything her competitors like Sharapova were more likely to be juicing in order to keep up. If Serena hasn't been caught she may be clean, be smarter at getting through tests than her opposition or have better pharmacists.

    Anyway I always thought Martina Navratilova was more well known than Chris Evert, she was successful over a longer period and had nearly as many tournament title wins as Evert and King had combined. A really disciplined and driven pro.
  99. Caitlyn Jenner was no slouch in her prime.

  100. @Lot
    I sympathize. Dated a sporty girl with Ds. She tried one sports bra after another, each one flawed in some way. Sometimes she wore two at the same time.

    I sympathize. Dated a sporty girl with Ds. She tried one sports bra after another, each one flawed in some way. Sometimes she wore two at the same time.

    Being an athlete with a highly feminine body is tough…..

  101. Lot says:
    @Dave Pinsen
    Chris Evert might be the most popular, but Billie Jean King might be the best known.

    As for this silliness,

    … Rapinoe is one of a growing number of female American athletes who have become stars and who in many cases outshine their male counterparts. Morgan and Rapinoe are better known than most of the men’s national soccer team, and American women regularly win more Olympic medals than American men.
     
    Rapinoe reminds me a bit of Michelle Obama in that praising her looks has become a kind of performative wokeness. Unlike Michelle Obama, though, Rapinoe has zero class.

    https://twitter.com/dpinsen/status/1149741781199667201

    Arguably, Julie Ertz is more famous than Alex Morgan, because she is the pretty wife of NFL tight end Zach Ertz.

    As for whether Morgan and Rapinoe "outshine" their male colleagues: the best soccer player in America is arguably Chris Pulisic. He's 20 years old, and will be playing for Chelsea next season, after starting his pro career in Germany. Lebron James shared an Instagram of him wearing Pulisic's jersey last year. In a year, Pulisic will likely be more famous than any of these women soccer players.

    “praising her looks has become a kind of performative wokeness”

    Aside from her face, she has a perfect muscle-girl look, especially the fact her TnA are not screwed up. With a lot of face makeup or airbrushing, she could be a covergirl on a bodybuilding magazine.

    This is a minority taste among the gen-pop, but I think a lot of serious male bodybuilders like it.

    As fetishes go, muscular women is socially innocuous.

    • Replies: @syonredux

    As fetishes go, muscular women is socially innocuous.
     
    Depends on just how muscular.....


    For example, this



    http://images.dailystar.co.uk/dynamic/1/photos/643000/257643.jpg


    vs this

    https://whywetrain.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/1513512355_106_rachel-mclish.jpg


    I can see going for the latter, but the former is vomit-inducing...
    , @Anonymous
    Good examples of strong beauty could be the icelandic duo of twice Crossfit Games champions (aka the "fittest woman on earth"), Anníe Mist Þórisdóttir and Katrín Tanja Davíðsdóttir.
  102. @syonredux

    Steroids are a hell of a drug…..

    Most of the top professional athletes seem to cheat in various ways with drugs and medicines, even if what they are doing is nominally legal, like claiming to suffer from some rare disease that needs performance improving medication, including Williams’ opponents, so it is really difficult to exclude her.
     
    I'm just amazed by the fact that no one talks about Serena's obvious steroid use:



    https://i.pinimg.com/originals/dc/ca/f7/dccaf78f3c6cd5eb0c57e45955404615.


    http://cdn-s3.si.com/s3fs-public/si/multimedia/photo_gallery/1102/muscles/images/serena-williams.jpg


    https://cdn.images.express.co.uk/img/dynamic/78/590x/secondary/women-427442.jpg

    “Serena’s obvious steroid”

    Take a look at Halep’s ‘guns’. At least Williams is married (to a guy) and a mother.

    • Replies: @syonredux

    Take a look at Halep’s ‘guns’.
     
    OK.


    https://celebmafia.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/simona-halep-2015-us-open-in-new-york-3rd-round_7.jpg

    vs



    https://www.girlswithmuscle.com/images/full/278380.jpg

    I'd say that Serena wins....
  103. @Peter Akuleyev
    Breast reduction surgery is not that uncommon even among non-athletes. Carrying around double Ds is hell on your back and can result in complications later in life. It is easier to have some of that fat removed. It's a far less intrusive surgery than having your foreskin chopped off.

    Breast reduction surgery is not that uncommon even among non-athletes.

    Yeah, but having a highly feminine body makes athletics tough.Look at Katarina Witt. Her ample endowments were a significant hindrance:

    Sports favor women with boyish bodies.

    • Replies: @Laurence Whelk

    Yeah, but having a highly feminine body makes athletics tough.Look at Katarina Witt. Her ample endowments were a significant hindrance:
     
    Exactly how was the lovely and Teutonic Katarina hindered by her ample endowments?

    First paragraph from her Wiki:

    Witt won two Olympic gold medals for East Germany, first at the 1984 Sarajevo Olympics and the second at the 1988 Calgary Olympics. She is a four-time World Champion (1984, 1985, 1987, 1988) and two-time World silver medalist (1982, 1986). A feat only equalled by Sonja Henie among female skaters, Witt won six consecutive European Championships (1983–1988). Between 1984 and 1988 Witt won ten golds from eleven major international events; two Olympics, four out of five World championships and six European championships. Her competitive record makes her one of the most successful figure skaters of all time.
     
  104. @syonredux

    proving that she is superhuman.

     

    Steroids are a hell of a drug.....

    https://femuscleblog.files.wordpress.com/2015/09/serena_williams.jpg

    My experience is that steroids turn someone that you can compete with, or beat, into someone that you don’t belong on the same field with.

  105. @syonredux

    Steroids are a hell of a drug…..

    Most of the top professional athletes seem to cheat in various ways with drugs and medicines, even if what they are doing is nominally legal, like claiming to suffer from some rare disease that needs performance improving medication, including Williams’ opponents, so it is really difficult to exclude her.
     
    I'm just amazed by the fact that no one talks about Serena's obvious steroid use:



    https://i.pinimg.com/originals/dc/ca/f7/dccaf78f3c6cd5eb0c57e45955404615.


    http://cdn-s3.si.com/s3fs-public/si/multimedia/photo_gallery/1102/muscles/images/serena-williams.jpg


    https://cdn.images.express.co.uk/img/dynamic/78/590x/secondary/women-427442.jpg

    She’s black and works out a lot to maximise her power. She seems to have been extensively drug-tested based on public comments. If anything her competitors like Sharapova were more likely to be juicing in order to keep up. If Serena hasn’t been caught she may be clean, be smarter at getting through tests than her opposition or have better pharmacists.

    Anyway I always thought Martina Navratilova was more well known than Chris Evert, she was successful over a longer period and had nearly as many tournament title wins as Evert and King had combined. A really disciplined and driven pro.

    • Replies: @syonredux

    She seems to have been extensively drug-tested based on public comments.
     
    Dunno:

    Serena Williams not at home when drug tester arrived for surprise test
     
    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-tennis-williams/serena-williams-not-at-home-when-drug-tester-arrived-for-surprise-test-idUSKBN1JO3CV

    She’s black
     
    So's her sister, Venus:

    https://cdn-s3.si.com/images/venus-williams-us-open-2017-price.jpg

    Nothing chemically enhanced about her physique....


    and works out a lot to maximise her power
     
    If you want to believe that Serena's body is the end result of clean-living plus hours pumping iron, I know about a bridge in Brooklyn that might interest you....

    If Serena hasn’t been caught she may be clean, be smarter at getting through tests than her opposition or have better pharmacists.
     
    I'll go for the last two.
  106. Women’s soccer benefits from the fact that there are some people who have their TVs running 24 hours a day, some who always have it tuned into sports. This includes public venues. If women’s soccer was outlawed, they would just tune it into the next inane women’s time killing sort.

    It also benefits from the fact that women make 85% of the discretionary purchases so even if men tune it out it does not matter as much because they are less important to advertisers. You see this with the Olympics. If only the most important events were held (strongest, fastest, toughest, most relevant) women would never appear. This is why we have to sit through pairs skating but not dead lifting or boxing. Women are elevated above their athletic talents to make it more inline with their shopping skills.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Beautiful young women skating in the Olympics makes good TV.
    , @Lot
    “It also benefits from the fact that women make 85% of the discretionary purchases so even if men tune it out it does not matter as much because they are less important to advertisers.”

    Women might be more important overall for advertisers, but shows men like command higher rates because they watch less TV overall, and are more likely to use tech to avoid commercials (and also use tech to block web ads).

    Since people rarely DVR live sports, advertisers pay a lot for those commercial breaks because it might be their only shot to reach a lot of men.
  107. @syonredux

    Breast reduction surgery is not that uncommon even among non-athletes.
     
    Yeah, but having a highly feminine body makes athletics tough.Look at Katarina Witt. Her ample endowments were a significant hindrance:

    http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-8XtyK8ucym8/UcbBoUTRrxI/AAAAAAAAP9E/CSDLgbn7Law/s1600/Katarina-Witt_swimsuit-wet.jpg


    Sports favor women with boyish bodies.

    Yeah, but having a highly feminine body makes athletics tough.Look at Katarina Witt. Her ample endowments were a significant hindrance:

    Exactly how was the lovely and Teutonic Katarina hindered by her ample endowments?

    First paragraph from her Wiki:

    Witt won two Olympic gold medals for East Germany, first at the 1984 Sarajevo Olympics and the second at the 1988 Calgary Olympics. She is a four-time World Champion (1984, 1985, 1987, 1988) and two-time World silver medalist (1982, 1986). A feat only equalled by Sonja Henie among female skaters, Witt won six consecutive European Championships (1983–1988). Between 1984 and 1988 Witt won ten golds from eleven major international events; two Olympics, four out of five World championships and six European championships. Her competitive record makes her one of the most successful figure skaters of all time.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Katarina Witt couldn't complete as many spins in the air as could skaters whose weight was distributed closer to their centers of mass, such as the Human Drillbit, 15-year-old gold medalist Tara Lipinski. The skating federation imposed a minimum age limit after Lipinski to keep their events from being dominated by pre-pubescent girls.
    , @syonredux

    Exactly how was the lovely and Teutonic Katarina hindered by her ample endowments?
     
    See Steve's comments. Katarina had to struggle against her glorious fore-and-aft protrusions:

    https://i.pinimg.com/originals/50/67/af/5067afd6ec07960e4d170ac108b2ba41.jpg

    Just imagine what her stats would look like had she been less abundantly female.....
  108. @Art Deco
    Back in the day, Babe Didrikson Zaharias. She excelled at several sports, but settled on golf. She was among the founders of the LPGA, and tops on the women's tour for a considerable run of years. I seem to recall when Annika Sorenstam entered some men's tournaments, she was said to be the first to attempt that since the Babe. Long married; of course, decades after her death there's a collection of people claiming her for lesbianism with whatever sketchy bits of evidence they can gather or invent.

    I berate you, good sir for you have stolen the famous female athlete on whom I came here to discourse. Nah man, I’m just kidding.

    • Replies: @Simply Simon
    I shall fall in line behind you in berating Art Deco for stealing Babe Didrikson as my nominee for most famous female athlete. You could say it is a generational thing with each generation having its favorite. But given the minimum amount of media coverage available to Babe as compared to what is available today she was very well known in her time.
  109. I reminded of the interview when Jim Rome taunted Rams QB Jim Everett by calling him Chris Evert:

    And isn’t Bruce Jenner the most famous female athlete ever?

  110. laughing.

    In your caveats you neglected to include the kitchen sink.

  111. @syonredux

    Althea Gibson won several major tennis tournaments and on retirement from tennis became a professional golfer.

    In 1976 Gibson made it to the finals of the ABC television program Superstars, finishing first in basketball shooting and bowling, and runner-up in softball throwing.

    So why is one of America’s greatest athletes not better known? Your guess is as good as mine,
     
    Have to be blunt. Black women are not attractive.

    “Have to be blunt. Black women are not attractive.”

    I’d submit, to be more precise, black women ARE attractive to the degree that their appearance and demeanor is more European (or Asian, depending on preference) and less African.

    Which is probably correlated to their degree of European (or Asian) ancestry.

    • Replies: @syonredux

    “Have to be blunt. Black women are not attractive.”

    I’d submit, to be more precise, black women ARE attractive to the degree that their appearance and demeanor is more European (or Asian, depending on preference) and less African.

    Which is probably correlated to their degree of European (or Asian) ancestry.
     
    Indeed. Most of the attractive "Black" women out there are heavily European in terms of ancestry:

    https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-d4TEDLzFpxo/UwnLxJ4z3wI/AAAAAAAAP5U/g1U6mgItD8Q/s3200/Rashida+Jones+photo-001.jpg


    http://images.mid-day.com/images/2015/jul/6Vanessa-Williams-1.jpg


    https://i.pinimg.com/originals/66/65/3c/66653c9a083d476a1a6d9f0e30b67266.jpg


    https://pursuenews.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/Zoe-Kravitz-as-Leta-Estrange-from-Fantastic-Beasts-The-Crimes-Of-Grindelwald-trailer.jpg
  112. Does Caitlyn Jenner count?

  113. @Dave Pinsen
    https://twitter.com/thehill/status/1150366603806236672

    I feel about this creature like the left feels about America.

  114. @Lot
    “praising her looks has become a kind of performative wokeness”

    Aside from her face, she has a perfect muscle-girl look, especially the fact her TnA are not screwed up. With a lot of face makeup or airbrushing, she could be a covergirl on a bodybuilding magazine.

    This is a minority taste among the gen-pop, but I think a lot of serious male bodybuilders like it.

    https://pre00.deviantart.net/b8cf/th/pre/i/2017/042/2/c/stronger_girls__1_by_lingster-dayq2kl.png

    As fetishes go, muscular women is socially innocuous.

    As fetishes go, muscular women is socially innocuous.

    Depends on just how muscular…..

    For example, this

    vs this

    I can see going for the latter, but the former is vomit-inducing…

    • Replies: @Prof. Woland
    It would be like making love to a praying mantis. You would expect your head to get bitten off afterwards.
    , @prosa123
    Like their male counterparts, female bodybuilders do not look quite so extreme in their daily lives. When they are on stage they have cut body fat to extraordinarily low levels through strict dieting and have greatly dehydrated themselves.

    Speaking of bodybuilding, Shawn Rhoden, who as Mr. Olympia is the world's bodybuilding champion, is facing rape charges in Utah. An unnamed female bodybuilder, to whom Rhoden was sone sort of mentor, claims that he forcibly raped her in a hotel room last October. Reports say that she had injuries often associated with forcible rape.
  115. • Replies: @Autochthon
    Surely you are not suggesting we accept ratings about hotness from people stupid enough to write sentences like:

    There is nothing sexier than a woman who can fight and wrestle better than most men."?

  116. @syonredux

    As fetishes go, muscular women is socially innocuous.
     
    Depends on just how muscular.....


    For example, this



    http://images.dailystar.co.uk/dynamic/1/photos/643000/257643.jpg


    vs this

    https://whywetrain.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/1513512355_106_rachel-mclish.jpg


    I can see going for the latter, but the former is vomit-inducing...

    It would be like making love to a praying mantis. You would expect your head to get bitten off afterwards.

  117. I guess as old guy here are some of my choices

    Martina Navratilova — I don’t get her lesbianism, but legs and legs

    Sandahl Bergman — “Do ya wanna liver forever.”

    and

    Tina Turner – anyone questioning her athletic prowess has never seen her in concert —

  118. @Hunsdon
    I berate you, good sir for you have stolen the famous female athlete on whom I came here to discourse. Nah man, I'm just kidding.

    I shall fall in line behind you in berating Art Deco for stealing Babe Didrikson as my nominee for most famous female athlete. You could say it is a generational thing with each generation having its favorite. But given the minimum amount of media coverage available to Babe as compared to what is available today she was very well known in her time.

    • Agree: Hunsdon
  119. Anonymous[139] • Disclaimer says:
    @Lot
    “praising her looks has become a kind of performative wokeness”

    Aside from her face, she has a perfect muscle-girl look, especially the fact her TnA are not screwed up. With a lot of face makeup or airbrushing, she could be a covergirl on a bodybuilding magazine.

    This is a minority taste among the gen-pop, but I think a lot of serious male bodybuilders like it.

    https://pre00.deviantart.net/b8cf/th/pre/i/2017/042/2/c/stronger_girls__1_by_lingster-dayq2kl.png

    As fetishes go, muscular women is socially innocuous.

    Good examples of strong beauty could be the icelandic duo of twice Crossfit Games champions (aka the “fittest woman on earth”), Anníe Mist Þórisdóttir and Katrín Tanja Davíðsdóttir.

    • Replies: @syonredux

    Good examples of strong beauty could be the icelandic duo of twice Crossfit Games champions (aka the “fittest woman on earth”), Anníe Mist Þórisdóttir and Katrín Tanja Davíðsdóttir.
     
    Only if you like women who are 'roided-up:

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DdlkskhU8AAeSoI.jpg

    https://i.pinimg.com/originals/c0/93/93/c09393f08781b50c208d8994d836b36b.jpg

    Sadly, even the crossfit girls have fallen prey to PEDs

  120. I like Roller Derby girls, but it seems that none ever managed to garner any lasting name recognition.

    Image result for roller derby women

    https://www.google.com/search?q=roller+derby+women&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjemZ-OqL

    • Replies: @Autochthon
    Have dated. Can confirm are batshit crazy. I am not recommend. Stop.
  121. @syonredux
    After and Before:


    https://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2011/06/21/article-2006063-0CAA4ABE00000578-721_1024x615_large.jpg

    Crime against humanity. Whoever did that surgery should stand trial at The Hague.

    OT:
    https://www.mediaite.com/politics/trump-says-ilhan-omar-should-go-back-to-africa-you-cant-leave-fast-enough/

    And heeeeeeere come the pretzels!

    • Agree: Autochthon
    • Replies: @bomag
    "...go back..."

    It would help if those who put her in office joined the trek.
    , @Autochthon
    Pornography is all about idealisations of lust and sexiness, the pinnacle if which is sexy women. By and large, women are the stars. Men are the audience. Many of the male participants are so unremarkable or even unattractive as to be commonly called "stunt-cocks" or, more charitably, "male talent." With a few exceptions, no one much knows or cares who they are, they make far less money than the females, and they are fungible.

    Why? Because pornography's raison d'tre is its male audience admiring the females and (even if only subconsciously) identifying with the males. Mind you, the viewer is not identifying with a character the way an indecisive person might identify with Hamlet's torments. It's more base – the male viewer enters a fugue state and projects himself into the role of the male performer (bear in mind what men commonly so when watching pornography!).

    Spectator-sports is similar, but different. They are all about the idealisation of physical fitness and power (strength, speed, dexterity...) – the pinnacle of which is athletic men. By and large, men are the stars. Men and women are the audience, but mostly men; and they watch for different reasons. (Here the faults in the analogy arise, but I still reckon it is useful.) The female participants are so unremarkable they are relegated to separate events, for their own sakes, as otherwise they would not even have a chance to compete. With a few exceptions, no one much knows or cares who they are, they make far less money than the males, and they are fungible.

    Why? Because spectator-sports' raison d'tre is its male audience entering a fugue state and identifying (if only subconsciously) with the males. (Think of the fans who grit their teeth, lean in intently for the challenging action (pitch, final stretch, etc.) then whoop and pump their fists when success occurs – they are vicariously putting themselves through the same series of emotions as the athlete. They say "we" won. They even wear jerseys with their sports hero's name emblazoned across the back.)

    Those women who enjoy watching sports are as often as not admiring, rather than truly identifying with, the athletes as pinnacles of male perfection (much as men who watch pornography are admiring the female performers.)

    No profound, grandiose theory underlies any if this idea, but I think it helps to understand that men and women (generally speaking) watch sport for different reasons. And I think the analogy may help to underline this difference.
  122. But Lindsey said she believes that is changing because of the power of female consumers. “They control the purse strings,” she said.

    And as the disastrous history of women’s professional sports has regularly demonstrated, women don’t want to pay for such things.

    The WNBA still only exists because the NBA underwrites everything, and still they’ve had teams collapse. Women’s pro soccer leagues come and go faster than spring pro football leagues. Can anyone here name the pro women’s softball league? Are there any other sports to even consider? Hockey? Field hockey? Ultimate frisbee?

    • Replies: @prosa123
    Can anyone here name the pro women’s softball league? Are there any other sports to even consider? Hockey? Field hockey? Ultimate frisbee?

    In the break room at work today I watched about ten minutes of a (men's) Ultimate Frisbee pro game. Far from being a bunch of hippies wandering around contemplating their navels, it seemed a lot like soccer except faster, higher scoring (well duh), and with more and heavier physical contact. Unfortunately the stands were nearly empty.
  123. @Oleaginous Outrager

    But Lindsey said she believes that is changing because of the power of female consumers. “They control the purse strings,” she said.
     
    And as the disastrous history of women's professional sports has regularly demonstrated, women don't want to pay for such things.

    The WNBA still only exists because the NBA underwrites everything, and still they've had teams collapse. Women's pro soccer leagues come and go faster than spring pro football leagues. Can anyone here name the pro women's softball league? Are there any other sports to even consider? Hockey? Field hockey? Ultimate frisbee?

    Can anyone here name the pro women’s softball league? Are there any other sports to even consider? Hockey? Field hockey? Ultimate frisbee?

    In the break room at work today I watched about ten minutes of a (men’s) Ultimate Frisbee pro game. Far from being a bunch of hippies wandering around contemplating their navels, it seemed a lot like soccer except faster, higher scoring (well duh), and with more and heavier physical contact. Unfortunately the stands were nearly empty.

  124. higher scoring (well duh)

    I.e, easier.

  125. @syonredux

    As fetishes go, muscular women is socially innocuous.
     
    Depends on just how muscular.....


    For example, this



    http://images.dailystar.co.uk/dynamic/1/photos/643000/257643.jpg


    vs this

    https://whywetrain.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/1513512355_106_rachel-mclish.jpg


    I can see going for the latter, but the former is vomit-inducing...

    Like their male counterparts, female bodybuilders do not look quite so extreme in their daily lives. When they are on stage they have cut body fat to extraordinarily low levels through strict dieting and have greatly dehydrated themselves.

    Speaking of bodybuilding, Shawn Rhoden, who as Mr. Olympia is the world’s bodybuilding champion, is facing rape charges in Utah. An unnamed female bodybuilder, to whom Rhoden was sone sort of mentor, claims that he forcibly raped her in a hotel room last October. Reports say that she had injuries often associated with forcible rape.

    • Replies: @syonredux

    Like their male counterparts, female bodybuilders do not look quite so extreme in their daily lives. When they are on stage they have cut body fat to extraordinarily low levels through strict dieting and have greatly dehydrated themselves.
     
    Bit apples-to-oranges. Female body-builders take androgenic hormones. They are chemically masculinizing themselves.
  126. Megan Rapinoe is pretty hot. I thought so the last world cup when she had blonde hair, but the washed out purple hair is kind of a turn off. She still has a nice body. It looks like she doesn’t eat very much. 5’6” 130 pounds.
    To be on topic, when I think of famous female athletes the only name that pops into my head is Elena delledone. I used to play soccer against her when I was <10 years old. She was 6 inches taller than everyone else, huge fast and powerful. Not overpoweringly skilled and not the best player on her team, since she played for her clubs best boys team. But definitely the most memorable player, and someone I read about in the newspaper every day for a decade. She made 80 consecutive free throws in high school. Too bad the WNBA sucks, she’s one of the best free throw shooters on the world.

  127. OT:

    The Nonbinary Fraction: Looking Towards the Future of Gender Equity in Astronomy

    [Kaitlin C. Rasmussen (she/they), Erin Maier (they/them), Beck E. Strauss, (they/them), Meredith Durbin (they/them), Luc Riesbeck (they/them), Aislynn Wallach (they/them), Vic Zamloot (they/them), Allison Erena (they/them)]

    Gender equity is one of the biggest issues facing the field of astrophysics, and there is broad interest in addressing gender disparities within astronomy. Many studies of these topics have been performed by professional astronomers who are relatively unfamiliar with research in fields such as gender studies and sociology. As a result, they adopt a normative view of gender as a binary choice of ‘male’ or ‘female’, leaving astronomers whose genders do not fit within that model out of such research entirely.

    Reductive frameworks of gender and an overemphasis on quantification as an indicator of gendered phenomena are harmful to people of marginalized genders, especially those who live at the intersections of multiple axes of marginalization such as race, disability, and socioeconomic status.

    In order for the astronomy community to best serve its marginalized members as we move into the next decade, a new paradigm must be developed. This paper aims to address the future of gender equity in astronomy by recommending better survey practices and institutional policies based on a more complex approach to gender.

    “Gender equity is one of the biggest issues facing the field of astrophysics…”

    This would not have been my first guess.

  128. @Reg Cæsar
    I don't know about the most famous, but the first famous must have been Atalanta.


    http://ancientrome.ru/art/artwork/sculp/rom/copy/sculp/scu0190.jpg

    http://www.sothebys.com/content/dam/stb/lots/N08/N08603/N08603-23-lr-1.jpg


    https://www.analisidellopera.it/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/Guido_Reni_Atalanta_e_Ippomene-1-1662x1200.jpg

    She's given her name to an automaker, aircraft, several British naval vessels, features on at least three continents, and an Italian football club.

    https://www.turfeurope.eu/immagini/ext/2018_09_4_14_11_48.jpg

    And Atalanta Bergamasca Calcio just had their best year ever! Coincidence?!?!

    You make the call.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    Only seven of their 24 players are Italian, though. One of them has the unusual surname of "Hateboer".

    Okay, I know that means something else in Dutch. But don't trade him to South Africa!
  129. @Reg Cæsar
    I don't know about the most famous, but the first famous must have been Atalanta.


    http://ancientrome.ru/art/artwork/sculp/rom/copy/sculp/scu0190.jpg

    http://www.sothebys.com/content/dam/stb/lots/N08/N08603/N08603-23-lr-1.jpg


    https://www.analisidellopera.it/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/Guido_Reni_Atalanta_e_Ippomene-1-1662x1200.jpg

    She's given her name to an automaker, aircraft, several British naval vessels, features on at least three continents, and an Italian football club.

    https://www.turfeurope.eu/immagini/ext/2018_09_4_14_11_48.jpg

    Can the buying public relate to a girl who grew up in the wilderness, fights centaurs, and has taken a vow of virginity?

    • Replies: @The Alarmist

    Can the buying public relate to a girl who grew up in the wilderness, fights centaurs, and has taken a vow of virginity?

     

    Sounds like a Marvel Comics Super-heroine to me.
    , @njguy73

    Can the buying public relate to a girl who grew up in the wilderness, fights centaurs, and has taken a vow of virginity?

     

    Her story was retold on the 1972 album which I'd call the seminal cultural touchstone of my generation.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_to_Be..._You_and_Me#Overview
  130. @Oleaginous Outrager
    And Atalanta Bergamasca Calcio just had their best year ever! Coincidence?!?!

    You make the call.

    Only seven of their 24 players are Italian, though. One of them has the unusual surname of “Hateboer”.

    Okay, I know that means something else in Dutch. But don’t trade him to South Africa!

    • Replies: @Oleaginous Outrager
    They're neither a tradition power nor backed by an oil sheikh, so they have to hunt for (foreign) bargains.

    Wouldn't "Hateboer" be a huge hit in current South Africa?
  131. @Jenner Ickham Errican
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jjlrRql7iHk

    With the exception of the boomerang, is that the high point of Aboriginal cultural influence worldwide?

  132. @Reg Cæsar
    Only seven of their 24 players are Italian, though. One of them has the unusual surname of "Hateboer".

    Okay, I know that means something else in Dutch. But don't trade him to South Africa!

    They’re neither a tradition power nor backed by an oil sheikh, so they have to hunt for (foreign) bargains.

    Wouldn’t “Hateboer” be a huge hit in current South Africa?

  133. @prosa123
    Like their male counterparts, female bodybuilders do not look quite so extreme in their daily lives. When they are on stage they have cut body fat to extraordinarily low levels through strict dieting and have greatly dehydrated themselves.

    Speaking of bodybuilding, Shawn Rhoden, who as Mr. Olympia is the world's bodybuilding champion, is facing rape charges in Utah. An unnamed female bodybuilder, to whom Rhoden was sone sort of mentor, claims that he forcibly raped her in a hotel room last October. Reports say that she had injuries often associated with forcible rape.

    Like their male counterparts, female bodybuilders do not look quite so extreme in their daily lives. When they are on stage they have cut body fat to extraordinarily low levels through strict dieting and have greatly dehydrated themselves.

    Bit apples-to-oranges. Female body-builders take androgenic hormones. They are chemically masculinizing themselves.

  134. Bible: there’s nothing new under the sun

    Journalism: check out this new thing!…which we’ve talked about many times before but forgot…

    I was especially annoyed by the First Black Superhero Movie talk surrounding Black Panther. Because of my age, I could remember Meteor Man, Blankman, Blade, Shaq’s Steel, and probably many others.

    Of course, Ass-Kicking Female Stars is a phenomenon they pretend appeared out of nowhere as soon as there’s a new one to sell. And frankly there are way too many examples to list, but at this point there are enough of them to invade Fortress Europe.

    As for female athletes in advertising, just to take women’s soccer, when I was a kid they stuffed Mia Hamm down our throats.

    • Replies: @Autochthon
    "Me? A ham?"

    What a name to give a child.
  135. @Anonymous
    Good examples of strong beauty could be the icelandic duo of twice Crossfit Games champions (aka the "fittest woman on earth"), Anníe Mist Þórisdóttir and Katrín Tanja Davíðsdóttir.

    Good examples of strong beauty could be the icelandic duo of twice Crossfit Games champions (aka the “fittest woman on earth”), Anníe Mist Þórisdóttir and Katrín Tanja Davíðsdóttir.

    Only if you like women who are ‘roided-up:

    Sadly, even the crossfit girls have fallen prey to PEDs

    • Replies: @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    EWWWW! For goodness sakes, Katherine, you didn't have to go and post THOSE kinds of pictures! Disgusting! Disturbing! How COULD you for the love of...of....

    It's totally inappropriate for a high classed place such as this!

    It's "women" like that, that help make one long for the days of prime primo Kardashian. At least we all know that Kim is definitely a bona fide woman!

    Goodness! What kind of world is out there that would cause one to stoop that low!?

    Just...just...totally inappropriate! That's how one gets nightmares. Who wants their daughters to grow up resembling that kind of person?

    Just disgusting. Totally disturbing.
    , @prosa123
    Athletes in the Crossfit Games are drug tested.
  136. @Laurence Whelk

    Yeah, but having a highly feminine body makes athletics tough.Look at Katarina Witt. Her ample endowments were a significant hindrance:
     
    Exactly how was the lovely and Teutonic Katarina hindered by her ample endowments?

    First paragraph from her Wiki:

    Witt won two Olympic gold medals for East Germany, first at the 1984 Sarajevo Olympics and the second at the 1988 Calgary Olympics. She is a four-time World Champion (1984, 1985, 1987, 1988) and two-time World silver medalist (1982, 1986). A feat only equalled by Sonja Henie among female skaters, Witt won six consecutive European Championships (1983–1988). Between 1984 and 1988 Witt won ten golds from eleven major international events; two Olympics, four out of five World championships and six European championships. Her competitive record makes her one of the most successful figure skaters of all time.
     

    Katarina Witt couldn’t complete as many spins in the air as could skaters whose weight was distributed closer to their centers of mass, such as the Human Drillbit, 15-year-old gold medalist Tara Lipinski. The skating federation imposed a minimum age limit after Lipinski to keep their events from being dominated by pre-pubescent girls.

  137. @Prof. Woland
    Women's soccer benefits from the fact that there are some people who have their TVs running 24 hours a day, some who always have it tuned into sports. This includes public venues. If women's soccer was outlawed, they would just tune it into the next inane women's time killing sort.

    It also benefits from the fact that women make 85% of the discretionary purchases so even if men tune it out it does not matter as much because they are less important to advertisers. You see this with the Olympics. If only the most important events were held (strongest, fastest, toughest, most relevant) women would never appear. This is why we have to sit through pairs skating but not dead lifting or boxing. Women are elevated above their athletic talents to make it more inline with their shopping skills.

    Beautiful young women skating in the Olympics makes good TV.

    • Replies: @syonredux

    Beautiful young women skating in the Olympics makes good TV.
     
    Delightful displays of feminine grace and loveliness are always welcome.
    , @Charles Pewitt

    Beautiful young women skating in the Olympics makes good TV.

     

    Ethel Merman berating Milton Berle from the back seat of a car makes good TV and a good movie.
  138. @Lot
    The before-breasts appear to defy gravity, and the after are still well proportioned.

    Halep probably looks better with the smaller boobs.

    In the last couple decades the most prominent female athlete is Serena, unfortunately. I’m glad she lost yesterday.

    Among the women’s soccer players, Alex Morgan is probably the most marketable.

  139. @Laurence Whelk
    “Have to be blunt. Black women are not attractive.”

    I’d submit, to be more precise, black women ARE attractive to the degree that their appearance and demeanor is more European (or Asian, depending on preference) and less African.

    Which is probably correlated to their degree of European (or Asian) ancestry.

    “Have to be blunt. Black women are not attractive.”

    I’d submit, to be more precise, black women ARE attractive to the degree that their appearance and demeanor is more European (or Asian, depending on preference) and less African.

    Which is probably correlated to their degree of European (or Asian) ancestry.

    Indeed. Most of the attractive “Black” women out there are heavily European in terms of ancestry:

  140. @JimB
    I’m inclined to say Nadia Comaneci was the most famous woman athlete from the Evert era if not all time. Her career didn’t last as long but achieving perfection for the first time by anyone in the Olympics, and at an incredibly young age, made her appear superhuman.

    Nadia Comaneci

    A definite contender for worldwide fame, although hindered by the partial boycott of the 1980 Olympics. I specifically asked about American fame.

    • Replies: @JimB
    She became a US citizen not long after her Olympic triumphs.
  141. @Laurence Whelk

    Yeah, but having a highly feminine body makes athletics tough.Look at Katarina Witt. Her ample endowments were a significant hindrance:
     
    Exactly how was the lovely and Teutonic Katarina hindered by her ample endowments?

    First paragraph from her Wiki:

    Witt won two Olympic gold medals for East Germany, first at the 1984 Sarajevo Olympics and the second at the 1988 Calgary Olympics. She is a four-time World Champion (1984, 1985, 1987, 1988) and two-time World silver medalist (1982, 1986). A feat only equalled by Sonja Henie among female skaters, Witt won six consecutive European Championships (1983–1988). Between 1984 and 1988 Witt won ten golds from eleven major international events; two Olympics, four out of five World championships and six European championships. Her competitive record makes her one of the most successful figure skaters of all time.
     

    Exactly how was the lovely and Teutonic Katarina hindered by her ample endowments?

    See Steve’s comments. Katarina had to struggle against her glorious fore-and-aft protrusions:

    Just imagine what her stats would look like had she been less abundantly female…..

  142. Gertrude ederley

    Esther Williams was more memorable

  143. @Steve Sailer
    Beautiful young women skating in the Olympics makes good TV.

    Beautiful young women skating in the Olympics makes good TV.

    Delightful displays of feminine grace and loveliness are always welcome.

  144. @EliteCommInc.
    Well,

    Let's take the vantage point of some who actually cover sports and their caveats are related to popularity.

    "by followers and play"
    https://www.pledgesports.org/2017/12/the-most-popular-female-athletes-in-sport/


    "by hotness"
    https://www.teninsider.com/10-hottest-female-american-athletes-of-all-time/


    ranker famous -- regardless of nationality
    https://www.ranker.com/list/famous-female-athletes/reference


    athletic icons
    https://www.businessinsider.com/iconic-female-athletes-women-sports-2019-7#wilma-rudolph-1


    by bank
    https://www.tiebreaker.com/highest-paid-female-athletes/

    Surely you are not suggesting we accept ratings about hotness from people stupid enough to write sentences like:

    There is nothing sexier than a woman who can fight and wrestle better than most men.”?

  145. @Jim bob Lassiter
    I like Roller Derby girls, but it seems that none ever managed to garner any lasting name recognition.

    Image result for roller derby women

    https://www.google.com/search?q=roller+derby+women&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjemZ-OqL

    Have dated. Can confirm are batshit crazy. I am not recommend. Stop.

  146. @Ali Choudhury
    She's black and works out a lot to maximise her power. She seems to have been extensively drug-tested based on public comments. If anything her competitors like Sharapova were more likely to be juicing in order to keep up. If Serena hasn't been caught she may be clean, be smarter at getting through tests than her opposition or have better pharmacists.

    Anyway I always thought Martina Navratilova was more well known than Chris Evert, she was successful over a longer period and had nearly as many tournament title wins as Evert and King had combined. A really disciplined and driven pro.

    She seems to have been extensively drug-tested based on public comments.

    Dunno:

    Serena Williams not at home when drug tester arrived for surprise test

    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-tennis-williams/serena-williams-not-at-home-when-drug-tester-arrived-for-surprise-test-idUSKBN1JO3CV

    She’s black

    So’s her sister, Venus:

    Nothing chemically enhanced about her physique….

    and works out a lot to maximise her power

    If you want to believe that Serena’s body is the end result of clean-living plus hours pumping iron, I know about a bridge in Brooklyn that might interest you….

    If Serena hasn’t been caught she may be clean, be smarter at getting through tests than her opposition or have better pharmacists.

    I’ll go for the last two.

    • Replies: @a
    There is also the time when a drug tester showed up to her home and she locked herself in her panic room and called the police, saying she thought it was an intruder.
  147. @JimB

    After and Before
     
    A crime against nature! Anyway, the resulting change in her style from breast reduction was probably a mixed (fun) bag. A larger chest increased her upper body moment of inertia giving her more power and better follow through in the back court. It may have also improved her serve. Any kinesiologists out there want to weigh in with an expert opinion?

    A larger chest increased her upper body moment of inertia giving her more power and better follow through in the back court. It may have also improved her serve. Any kinesiologists out there want to weigh in with an expert opinion?

    I know some female tennis players who gained breast mass as a result of pregnancy. According to them, it hindered their game.

    • Replies: @JimB

    I know some female tennis players who gained breast mass as a result of pregnancy. According to them, it hindered their game.
     
    Because their brains weren’t wired to deal with the abrupt anatomical change. A naturally large breasted woman adapts her tennis skills to her particular mass distribution. Large breasts can be adequately contained by a sports bra so they don’t move relative to the torso.
  148. @George
    "Serena’s obvious steroid"

    Take a look at Halep's 'guns'. At least Williams is married (to a guy) and a mother.

    Take a look at Halep’s ‘guns’.

    OK.

    vs

    I’d say that Serena wins….

    • Replies: @Jonathan Mason
    It is pretty obvious that Serena works out with weights a lot, regardless of whether she uses steroids, but you don't see a lot of male tennis players who look like bodybuilders, and additional weight can lead to loss of mobility and stamina.
  149. I can’t beleive I’m the first in here for Lindsay Voghn. She had a fantastic run of almost uncontested dominance in skiing, was The American Darling of the US Wintet Olympic team, was in Law and Order and dated Tiger Woods.
    I think the iSteve world is too So-Cal centric. Here is Snowville, she’s be the #1 show-in

  150. @BenKenobi
    Crime against humanity. Whoever did that surgery should stand trial at The Hague.

    OT:
    https://www.mediaite.com/politics/trump-says-ilhan-omar-should-go-back-to-africa-you-cant-leave-fast-enough/

    And heeeeeeere come the pretzels!

    “…go back…”

    It would help if those who put her in office joined the trek.

  151. @syonredux

    Take a look at Halep’s ‘guns’.
     
    OK.


    https://celebmafia.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/simona-halep-2015-us-open-in-new-york-3rd-round_7.jpg

    vs



    https://www.girlswithmuscle.com/images/full/278380.jpg

    I'd say that Serena wins....

    It is pretty obvious that Serena works out with weights a lot, regardless of whether she uses steroids, but you don’t see a lot of male tennis players who look like bodybuilders, and additional weight can lead to loss of mobility and stamina.

    • Replies: @syonredux

    It is pretty obvious that Serena works out with weights a lot, regardless of whether she uses steroids,
     
    It's pretty obvious that she both pumps iron and uses steroids/HGH.
  152. @Steve Sailer
    Nadia Comaneci

    A definite contender for worldwide fame, although hindered by the partial boycott of the 1980 Olympics. I specifically asked about American fame.

    She became a US citizen not long after her Olympic triumphs.

    • Replies: @Art Deco
    No, I think 20 years later. Both she and Olga Korbut live in the southwest, I think.
  153. @Jonathan Mason
    It is pretty obvious that Serena works out with weights a lot, regardless of whether she uses steroids, but you don't see a lot of male tennis players who look like bodybuilders, and additional weight can lead to loss of mobility and stamina.

    It is pretty obvious that Serena works out with weights a lot, regardless of whether she uses steroids,

    It’s pretty obvious that she both pumps iron and uses steroids/HGH.

  154. @syonredux

    A larger chest increased her upper body moment of inertia giving her more power and better follow through in the back court. It may have also improved her serve. Any kinesiologists out there want to weigh in with an expert opinion?
     
    I know some female tennis players who gained breast mass as a result of pregnancy. According to them, it hindered their game.

    I know some female tennis players who gained breast mass as a result of pregnancy. According to them, it hindered their game.

    Because their brains weren’t wired to deal with the abrupt anatomical change. A naturally large breasted woman adapts her tennis skills to her particular mass distribution. Large breasts can be adequately contained by a sports bra so they don’t move relative to the torso.

    • Replies: @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    And don't forget steroids. I know! Steroids in women's sports!? Couldn't be possible! Can't be true!

    Yes it can.
    , @syonredux

    I know some female tennis players who gained breast mass as a result of pregnancy. According to them, it hindered their game.

    Because their brains weren’t wired to deal with the abrupt anatomical change. A naturally large breasted woman adapts her tennis skills to her particular mass distribution. Large breasts can be adequately contained by a sports bra so they don’t move relative to the torso.
     
    Damn! You got me. I didn't realize that you were doing a parody post.
  155. @Honesthughgrant
    Babe Didrikson Zaharias
    Helen Wills Moody
    Nancy Lopez
    Peggy Fleming
    Sonja Henie

    Would have to be on the list. Needless to say, Tennis, golf, and figure skating are the roads to fame for a woman athlete - with gymnastics and track and field in the mix.

    Good list.

    Male sportswriters of the Damon Runyon – Paul Gallico generation loved Babe Didrikson Zaharias. She had a Babe Ruth-like or proto-Muhammad Ali-like personality, but was even more boastful, which made for colorful copy. Her fellow women athletes couldn’t stand her, though.

    • Replies: @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    Babe Didrickson Zaharias was an athletic prodigy in several sports. She helped found the LPGA, was great in bowling, track/field, basketball, softball, etc. There's a reason she was unanimously chosen as the greatest woman athlete of the 1901-50 era. No one comes close, no one.
  156. @Prof. Woland
    Women's soccer benefits from the fact that there are some people who have their TVs running 24 hours a day, some who always have it tuned into sports. This includes public venues. If women's soccer was outlawed, they would just tune it into the next inane women's time killing sort.

    It also benefits from the fact that women make 85% of the discretionary purchases so even if men tune it out it does not matter as much because they are less important to advertisers. You see this with the Olympics. If only the most important events were held (strongest, fastest, toughest, most relevant) women would never appear. This is why we have to sit through pairs skating but not dead lifting or boxing. Women are elevated above their athletic talents to make it more inline with their shopping skills.

    “It also benefits from the fact that women make 85% of the discretionary purchases so even if men tune it out it does not matter as much because they are less important to advertisers.”

    Women might be more important overall for advertisers, but shows men like command higher rates because they watch less TV overall, and are more likely to use tech to avoid commercials (and also use tech to block web ads).

    Since people rarely DVR live sports, advertisers pay a lot for those commercial breaks because it might be their only shot to reach a lot of men.

    • Replies: @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    But if in the US, men aren't watching much of men's soccer, it's ridiculous to assume that they would passionately, fervently tune in to watch such a mundane bland sport as women's soccer. Trying to think of a single women's sport in the US where a commanding majority of men would watch...nope. Can't think of a single one.
  157. @unit472
    Product endorsement until the advent of Colin Kaepernick was not the province of the most famous or 'best' athlete but the most pleasant personality. George Foreman and Shaq still do lots of TV ads even though their athletic careers are long over and despite being extremely large and powerful negro men Same could be said for Frank Thomas who also still appears in TV ads. They look friendly not hostile or menacing.

    Soccer, in the US, is seen as a more milquetoast sport appealing to suburban soccer moms so would they identify with a lesbian with a punk/ butch haircut like Rapinoe? I doubt it so Rapinoe isn't going to sell them SUVs , beauty or fashion products. Doc Martins might want to use her though as she would appeal to the Antifa crowd though the demographics of that bunch probably isn't upscale.

    “but the most pleasant personality.“

    Any examples of a superstar athlete who was weak on endorsement money because he was unpleasant or just bland (aside from felons and wife beaters)?

    Maybe some of the top latin american baseball players with weak English.

  158. @Steve Sailer
    Good list.

    Male sportswriters of the Damon Runyon - Paul Gallico generation loved Babe Didrikson Zaharias. She had a Babe Ruth-like or proto-Muhammad Ali-like personality, but was even more boastful, which made for colorful copy. Her fellow women athletes couldn't stand her, though.

    Babe Didrickson Zaharias was an athletic prodigy in several sports. She helped found the LPGA, was great in bowling, track/field, basketball, softball, etc. There’s a reason she was unanimously chosen as the greatest woman athlete of the 1901-50 era. No one comes close, no one.

  159. @JimB

    I know some female tennis players who gained breast mass as a result of pregnancy. According to them, it hindered their game.
     
    Because their brains weren’t wired to deal with the abrupt anatomical change. A naturally large breasted woman adapts her tennis skills to her particular mass distribution. Large breasts can be adequately contained by a sports bra so they don’t move relative to the torso.

    And don’t forget steroids. I know! Steroids in women’s sports!? Couldn’t be possible! Can’t be true!

    Yes it can.

  160. @Curmudgeon
    While perhaps not the eye candy that Chris Evert was/is, Mildred (Babe) Didrikson Zaharias was every bit as famous and an athlete for a longer period of time.

    Babe Didrikson Zaharias might have been the first Celebrity Cancer Survivor. Cancer wasn’t talked about much before WWII because it was such a depressing death sentence. But medical treatments rapidly improved. It was a huge story when Babe came back from cancer surgery to win the 1954 US Women’s Open in golf (her second main sport after track and field). I think President Eisenhower, a fanatical golfer, did something with her with to boost awareness of the successes of medical research into fighting cancer.

    Sadly, she soon relapsed and died. But others of us have reason to be thankful for the vast amount of progress the medical profession has made over the last century or so in fighting cancer.

  161. @Anon
    How about Babe Didrikson?

    Basketball, track and field, golf.

    She was may have been a pioneering tranny woman athlete, judging from her photos. I think there was at minimum some sort of testosterone malafunction or intersex thing going on there.

    Didrikson-Zaharias probably didn’t undergo puberty until her later 20s, after she won her Olympic gold medals in track and field. She then married a professional wrestling star, and they were enthusiastic heterosexuals, as attested by guests who were invited to spend the night in the Zaharias’s spare bedroom. (This was before the invention of modern earplugs.)

    • Replies: @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    I can't believe you went there, Steve.
  162. @syonredux

    Good examples of strong beauty could be the icelandic duo of twice Crossfit Games champions (aka the “fittest woman on earth”), Anníe Mist Þórisdóttir and Katrín Tanja Davíðsdóttir.
     
    Only if you like women who are 'roided-up:

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DdlkskhU8AAeSoI.jpg

    https://i.pinimg.com/originals/c0/93/93/c09393f08781b50c208d8994d836b36b.jpg

    Sadly, even the crossfit girls have fallen prey to PEDs

    EWWWW! For goodness sakes, Katherine, you didn’t have to go and post THOSE kinds of pictures! Disgusting! Disturbing! How COULD you for the love of…of….

    It’s totally inappropriate for a high classed place such as this!

    It’s “women” like that, that help make one long for the days of prime primo Kardashian. At least we all know that Kim is definitely a bona fide woman!

    Goodness! What kind of world is out there that would cause one to stoop that low!?

    Just…just…totally inappropriate! That’s how one gets nightmares. Who wants their daughters to grow up resembling that kind of person?

    Just disgusting. Totally disturbing.

  163. Amateur sports are fine provided one plays or participates directly in some way, but professional spectator sports are mostly a waste of time and mental energy.

    Lately, the female (?) athletes who have been spotlighted by the media mostly proven to be either bitter, resentful and vile lesbians of the Rapinoe type or the arguably female Serena who exemplifies ‘groid’ rage. Professional sports are quickly becoming like the entertainment world in the sense that they glorify the worst of the worst type of (again arguably) human beings.

    Everything the Jewry touches in any appreciative fashion eventually turns to merde.

  164. @Steve Sailer
    Didrikson-Zaharias probably didn't undergo puberty until her later 20s, after she won her Olympic gold medals in track and field. She then married a professional wrestling star, and they were enthusiastic heterosexuals, as attested by guests who were invited to spend the night in the Zaharias's spare bedroom. (This was before the invention of modern earplugs.)

    I can’t believe you went there, Steve.

    • Agree: PiltdownMan
  165. @syonredux

    She seems to have been extensively drug-tested based on public comments.
     
    Dunno:

    Serena Williams not at home when drug tester arrived for surprise test
     
    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-tennis-williams/serena-williams-not-at-home-when-drug-tester-arrived-for-surprise-test-idUSKBN1JO3CV

    She’s black
     
    So's her sister, Venus:

    https://cdn-s3.si.com/images/venus-williams-us-open-2017-price.jpg

    Nothing chemically enhanced about her physique....


    and works out a lot to maximise her power
     
    If you want to believe that Serena's body is the end result of clean-living plus hours pumping iron, I know about a bridge in Brooklyn that might interest you....

    If Serena hasn’t been caught she may be clean, be smarter at getting through tests than her opposition or have better pharmacists.
     
    I'll go for the last two.

    There is also the time when a drug tester showed up to her home and she locked herself in her panic room and called the police, saying she thought it was an intruder.

  166. Regarding the profitability of women’s soccer:

    This from Breitbart:

    “A group of players for the Women’s team already launched a federal class-action lawsuit against U.S. soccer over the pay gap.

    At the heart of their claim is that the pay gap is merely a matter of gender bias.

    The U.S. Women’s National Team is not a party to the lawsuit but has still come out in support of the action saying it “supports the plaintiffs’ goal of eliminating gender-based discrimination by USSF.

    “The total prize money for the Women’s World Cup in France this July will be $30 million compared with total prize money of $440 million for the men’s teams at the 2022 World Cup in Qatar,” Forbes reported.”

    But as Breitbart Sports recently reported, far from mere “gender bias,” the reason there is a pay gap between the men and the women is that the men bring in many millions of dollars more in revenue than the women.

    For instance, in 2010 the Women’s World Cup brought in $73 million in revenue. But that same year the Men’s World Cup earned a whopping $4 billion, according to NBC Sports.

    Men’s soccer also has by far many more viewers than women’s soccer.”

    Translation: Women’s Soccer global revenues aren’t even about 2% of Men’s Soccer global revenues, and yet they expect to be paid the same amount as the men.

  167. @Astorian
    Heterosexual women rarely care about basketball, soccer, or any other team sport. The sports they do like watching most are figure skating and gymnastics. Among straight women, the most famous American athletes ever include Peggy Fleming, Dorothy Hammill and Mary Lou Retton.

    But go ahead, try using Megan Rapinoe and Brittney Griner to sell cosmetics and clothes. That's sure to work.

    As the first American woman to win the Olympic figure skating gold, Peggy Fleming has had huge name recognition for 50 years.

    • Replies: @education realist
    Minor point: Peggy wasn't the first American woman to win Olympic gold. Americans dominated the sport in the 50s, and then the entire US team was killed in a plane crash in 1961. Peggy was the comeback from that loss.

    Tenley Allbright won in 1956, Carol Heiss in 1960.
  168. @dearieme
    Who Was the Most Famous Woman Athlete Ever?


    In my day, Evonne Goolagong.

    ?

    Goolagong was appealing and capable, but she was second fiddle to Evert at her peak and not quite the champion Margaret Court had been.

  169. @Lot
    “It also benefits from the fact that women make 85% of the discretionary purchases so even if men tune it out it does not matter as much because they are less important to advertisers.”

    Women might be more important overall for advertisers, but shows men like command higher rates because they watch less TV overall, and are more likely to use tech to avoid commercials (and also use tech to block web ads).

    Since people rarely DVR live sports, advertisers pay a lot for those commercial breaks because it might be their only shot to reach a lot of men.

    But if in the US, men aren’t watching much of men’s soccer, it’s ridiculous to assume that they would passionately, fervently tune in to watch such a mundane bland sport as women’s soccer. Trying to think of a single women’s sport in the US where a commanding majority of men would watch…nope. Can’t think of a single one.

    • Replies: @Jonathan Mason

    Trying to think of a single women’s sport in the US where a commanding majority of men would watch…nope. Can’t think of a single one.
     
    Women's tennis is probably the most popular TV women's sport with men, no doubt due to sweaty women bending over to receive serve with their legs spread and finely toned buttocks barely concealed by miniskirts. This is a very pleasing vista for the male brain.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GkuDViOUcG8
  170. @JimB
    She became a US citizen not long after her Olympic triumphs.

    No, I think 20 years later. Both she and Olga Korbut live in the southwest, I think.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    Surya Bonaly did as well. She married a Minnesotan and lives there now.

    However, she does ads for PETA, which is not exactly going native in a place where even the progs hunt and fish and chow down at steak houses.
  171. @BenKenobi
    Crime against humanity. Whoever did that surgery should stand trial at The Hague.

    OT:
    https://www.mediaite.com/politics/trump-says-ilhan-omar-should-go-back-to-africa-you-cant-leave-fast-enough/

    And heeeeeeere come the pretzels!

    Pornography is all about idealisations of lust and sexiness, the pinnacle if which is sexy women. By and large, women are the stars. Men are the audience. Many of the male participants are so unremarkable or even unattractive as to be commonly called “stunt-cocks” or, more charitably, “male talent.” With a few exceptions, no one much knows or cares who they are, they make far less money than the females, and they are fungible.

    Why? Because pornography’s raison d’tre is its male audience admiring the females and (even if only subconsciously) identifying with the males. Mind you, the viewer is not identifying with a character the way an indecisive person might identify with Hamlet’s torments. It’s more base – the male viewer enters a fugue state and projects himself into the role of the male performer (bear in mind what men commonly so when watching pornography!).

    Spectator-sports is similar, but different. They are all about the idealisation of physical fitness and power (strength, speed, dexterity…) – the pinnacle of which is athletic men. By and large, men are the stars. Men and women are the audience, but mostly men; and they watch for different reasons. (Here the faults in the analogy arise, but I still reckon it is useful.) The female participants are so unremarkable they are relegated to separate events, for their own sakes, as otherwise they would not even have a chance to compete. With a few exceptions, no one much knows or cares who they are, they make far less money than the males, and they are fungible.

    Why? Because spectator-sports’ raison d’tre is its male audience entering a fugue state and identifying (if only subconsciously) with the males. (Think of the fans who grit their teeth, lean in intently for the challenging action (pitch, final stretch, etc.) then whoop and pump their fists when success occurs – they are vicariously putting themselves through the same series of emotions as the athlete. They say “we” won. They even wear jerseys with their sports hero’s name emblazoned across the back.)

    Those women who enjoy watching sports are as often as not admiring, rather than truly identifying with, the athletes as pinnacles of male perfection (much as men who watch pornography are admiring the female performers.)

    No profound, grandiose theory underlies any if this idea, but I think it helps to understand that men and women (generally speaking) watch sport for different reasons. And I think the analogy may help to underline this difference.

    • Replies: @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    Male porn stars make far less money in front of the camera, that's true. That's also why they eventually tend to go into directing and producing (behind the camera) where there's substantially more money to be made compared to the women porn stars. Also notice, that the vast majority of porn behind the camera positions (producer, director) are dominated by men. Figurative and literal control over the product (the women).

    As far as the rest goes, regarding the reasons men and women watch sports, the analysis is right on the mark. The young women may not know who is playing the sport, but they definitely know which individual is the main Alpha on the team (e.g. QB; HRhitters; FW/PG in NBA). The alpha players who score the most points are thus able to score the most alpha girls.

    Note: Is there such a thing as golf groupies on the PGA Tour? Is that a real thing? Perhaps that question should go to Steve, who's written so admirably about the sport over the years, yet ironically that's the one section of golf he hasn't directly written about---do young chicks actually follow PGA pros around the course in the way that they would go to MLB/NFL/NBA events in an effort to score an athlete?

    *Do they? Golf Groupies following players on the PGA tour, is that an actual thing?

    *I'm NOT referring to the chicks that Eldrick got in his spare time. Not talking about that kind of thing. It's a well known truism that young women on the hotter side tend to go to team sport events in an effort to get a hookup with an alpha athlete. Just wondered if its a thing in the PGA as well. You certainly don't see them very often at PGA Majors, at the high end country clubs, but suppose its possible that if they wanted to go to the event to meet up with a young PGAer, that they'd find a way to get inside?

    Do the PGA ranked players have golf groupies following them on the tour? Is that a thing?

    Legitimate question since I've never heard about it either way.

  172. @Anon 2
    OT: Massive New York blackout

    Does that even happen in major cities around the world, like
    London, Paris, Tokyo, etc, in this century? It’s embarrassing to what
    extent New York is becoming a Third World city. It’ll take trillions
    of dollars for NYC to upgrade its infrastructure, esp. the subway system
    and the power grid. Where is the money going to come from?
    Is there any engineering talent left in the city so devoted to
    entertainment, finance, real estate, and publishing? Does NYC
    even have great engineering schools anymore?

    OT: Massive New York blackout

    Does that even happen in major cities around the world, like
    London, Paris, Tokyo, etc, in this century?

    Yep. For example,

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2003_London_blackout

    • Replies: @Anon 2
    Re: 2003 London blackout

    I’m not surprised. Based on my visits, London’s infrastructure has
    also deteriorated in the last few decades.
  173. @JimB

    I know some female tennis players who gained breast mass as a result of pregnancy. According to them, it hindered their game.
     
    Because their brains weren’t wired to deal with the abrupt anatomical change. A naturally large breasted woman adapts her tennis skills to her particular mass distribution. Large breasts can be adequately contained by a sports bra so they don’t move relative to the torso.

    I know some female tennis players who gained breast mass as a result of pregnancy. According to them, it hindered their game.

    Because their brains weren’t wired to deal with the abrupt anatomical change. A naturally large breasted woman adapts her tennis skills to her particular mass distribution. Large breasts can be adequately contained by a sports bra so they don’t move relative to the torso.

    Damn! You got me. I didn’t realize that you were doing a parody post.

    • Replies: @JimB
    I live in a mixed state of quantum parody and reality.
  174. @Anonymous

    Being good-looking is a massive plus for a female athlete

     

    Apparently not so in team sports.

    https://www.huffpost.com/entry/sabina-altynbekova-beautiful-volleyball_n_5625530

    Sabina Altynbekova Is Too Beautiful To Play Volleyball, Critics Say

    A teenage volleyball player from Kazakhstan is coming under fire, but it’s not because of her skills. It’s because of her looks.

    Critics say Sabina Altynbekova, 17, is so beautiful that it’s a distraction to the sport. Even the athlete’s own coach says his team is increasingly about one player, at least as far as the fans are concerned.

    “It is impossible to work like this,” Nurlan Sadikov, coach of the nation’s under-19 team, told Tengrin News in a quote translated by the Daily Mail. “The crowd behaves like there is only one player at the championship.”

    https://ilarge.lisimg.com/image/7502925/740full-sabina-altynbekova.jpg

     

    Sabina is not that stunning. What about Russian volleyball player, Alisa Manyonok?

    https://cdn.blogarama.com/images/posts_thumbs_site_id/2033/203340-27228466.jpg
     

    I remember the Sabina story. It’s no coincidence it broke when her team was playing in a tournament in Taiwan. Sabina’s look is an absolute bullseye hit for the East Asian female beauty aesthetic.

    The photo of her you’ve posted actually makes her look a bit angular and harsh. In other photos she looks softer and more ‘kawaii’:

    In fact, that a quick image search reveals that someone’s anime-ized Sabina, mostly retaining her facial structure, but of course throwing in some blue eyes:

  175. @guest
    Bible: there's nothing new under the sun

    Journalism: check out this new thing!...which we've talked about many times before but forgot...

    I was especially annoyed by the First Black Superhero Movie talk surrounding Black Panther. Because of my age, I could remember Meteor Man, Blankman, Blade, Shaq's Steel, and probably many others.

    Of course, Ass-Kicking Female Stars is a phenomenon they pretend appeared out of nowhere as soon as there's a new one to sell. And frankly there are way too many examples to list, but at this point there are enough of them to invade Fortress Europe.

    As for female athletes in advertising, just to take women's soccer, when I was a kid they stuffed Mia Hamm down our throats.

    “Me? A ham?”

    What a name to give a child.

  176. “Surely you are not suggesting we accept ratings about hotness from people stupid enough to write sentences like:
    There is nothing sexier than a woman who can fight and wrestle better than most men.”?”

    excuse my attempt to a rare levity —–

    Cat fight . . .

    I didn’t create the qualifiers . . . but women fighting has quite an appeal.

  177. @Old Prude
    I don't know what the correct answer is, but I know what it should be: Katrina Witt. Yowza.

    In my opinion, the most famous woman athlete was little whatsername. I can’t quite recall her face, either.

    • LOL: Autochthon
  178. @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    But if in the US, men aren't watching much of men's soccer, it's ridiculous to assume that they would passionately, fervently tune in to watch such a mundane bland sport as women's soccer. Trying to think of a single women's sport in the US where a commanding majority of men would watch...nope. Can't think of a single one.

    Trying to think of a single women’s sport in the US where a commanding majority of men would watch…nope. Can’t think of a single one.

    Women’s tennis is probably the most popular TV women’s sport with men, no doubt due to sweaty women bending over to receive serve with their legs spread and finely toned buttocks barely concealed by miniskirts. This is a very pleasing vista for the male brain.

    • Replies: @Autochthon
    I hate bringing it up twice now, but I earnestly believe that, for reasons of wanting to seem socially acceptable in line with modern mores of debauched prudery*, people grossly ignore the substantial – perhaps overwhelming – role the athletes' attractiveness (not mere ability) plays in the popularity of women's sport, far more so than in men's sports, and for reasons having to do with human sexuality we are all expected to pretend is not as it is....

    I'll confess that I watched women's tennis as an adolescent for the visuals but, especially, to hear the grunts and screams. Better eye-candy, and with more of the wrapper peeled away, was often available from gymnastics, figure-skating, cheer-leading, volleyball, and swimming – but none of these provided that aural frisson.

    (No jeering, please; twelve-year-old boys are slaves to biochemistry!)

    Steve rightly points out women's tennis was once much more popular. As was gymnastics (never since have I noticed the crazed popularity enjoyed by Nadia and Mary-Lou Retton). The topic will never be explored, because it is too bizarre and gauche, but I do wonder what contribution (doubtless others factors also are at work) ubiquitous, high-definition pornography had on decreasing the popularity of women's sports like these, as millions of males aged around twelve to eighteen no longer sought to view it for embarrassing reasons – and maybe even later kept viewing it for those same reasons or for a genuine appreciation of the sport developed incidentally. I am serious. Younger folks won't understand, but time was, a televised beauty pageant or a women's sporting event was one of the only opportunities for boys driven to madness by their hormones to see moving pictures in living colour of scantily clad beauties in a private venue....

    *My term for the now prevailing paradoxical equivalent to annarcho-tyranny in matters of sexuality: adolescent girls are dressed like hookers, pornography treated as art, and degenerates like hookers and homosexuals are sanctified even as it becomes anathema to notice buxom seventeen-year-olds are attractive, ask a woman from the office out to drinks, or call a lady "my dear" and hold the door for her or – God forbid! – innocuously kiss her hand or cheek.
    , @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    After about the age of 12, most teen boys aren't watching women's sports, period. There is such a thing as the internet, porn sites, etc. And no women athletes can compete with that sort of sport.

    So for the most part, the majority of women's sports are going to be women (and even they prefer to watch men's sports). Adult males aren't watching women's tennis, women's gymnastics (aside from the gays), women's sports, period. Why would they? They can watch their own sports which they passionately care about.

    Notice, that you don't see Steve's beloved Sabermetrics applied to women's softball. Why not? You don't see talking heads on major networks (not cable) over analyze for weeks on end the minutiae of women's basketball. How come? Aren't these legitimate sports? Don't they have interesting statistics to analyze?

    Over-analysis, breaking down the inside strategies only applies to men's sports and because men don't care about women's sports. Period.
  179. @syonredux

    I know some female tennis players who gained breast mass as a result of pregnancy. According to them, it hindered their game.

    Because their brains weren’t wired to deal with the abrupt anatomical change. A naturally large breasted woman adapts her tennis skills to her particular mass distribution. Large breasts can be adequately contained by a sports bra so they don’t move relative to the torso.
     
    Damn! You got me. I didn't realize that you were doing a parody post.

    I live in a mixed state of quantum parody and reality.

  180. @Jonathan Mason

    Trying to think of a single women’s sport in the US where a commanding majority of men would watch…nope. Can’t think of a single one.
     
    Women's tennis is probably the most popular TV women's sport with men, no doubt due to sweaty women bending over to receive serve with their legs spread and finely toned buttocks barely concealed by miniskirts. This is a very pleasing vista for the male brain.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GkuDViOUcG8

    I hate bringing it up twice now, but I earnestly believe that, for reasons of wanting to seem socially acceptable in line with modern mores of debauched prudery*, people grossly ignore the substantial – perhaps overwhelming – role the athletes’ attractiveness (not mere ability) plays in the popularity of women’s sport, far more so than in men’s sports, and for reasons having to do with human sexuality we are all expected to pretend is not as it is….

    I’ll confess that I watched women’s tennis as an adolescent for the visuals but, especially, to hear the grunts and screams. Better eye-candy, and with more of the wrapper peeled away, was often available from gymnastics, figure-skating, cheer-leading, volleyball, and swimming – but none of these provided that aural frisson.

    (No jeering, please; twelve-year-old boys are slaves to biochemistry!)

    Steve rightly points out women’s tennis was once much more popular. As was gymnastics (never since have I noticed the crazed popularity enjoyed by Nadia and Mary-Lou Retton). The topic will never be explored, because it is too bizarre and gauche, but I do wonder what contribution (doubtless others factors also are at work) ubiquitous, high-definition pornography had on decreasing the popularity of women’s sports like these, as millions of males aged around twelve to eighteen no longer sought to view it for embarrassing reasons – and maybe even later kept viewing it for those same reasons or for a genuine appreciation of the sport developed incidentally. I am serious. Younger folks won’t understand, but time was, a televised beauty pageant or a women’s sporting event was one of the only opportunities for boys driven to madness by their hormones to see moving pictures in living colour of scantily clad beauties in a private venue….

    *My term for the now prevailing paradoxical equivalent to annarcho-tyranny in matters of sexuality: adolescent girls are dressed like hookers, pornography treated as art, and degenerates like hookers and homosexuals are sanctified even as it becomes anathema to notice buxom seventeen-year-olds are attractive, ask a woman from the office out to drinks, or call a lady “my dear” and hold the door for her or – God forbid! – innocuously kiss her hand or cheek.

    • Replies: @EliteCommInc.
    "Steve rightly points out women’s tennis was once much more popular."


    Well those were the days when being politically correct was incorrect. Battles were fought on the court and off. The most ardent personalities are mild compared to the period Mr. Sailor is referring to.

    The drama was actually drama by real people being sincerely dramatic. You talked smack you got smack back In that era the rivalries were full on

    And you can't mention rivalry in tennis without noting Chris Evert and Martina Navratilova
  181. @syonredux

    Good examples of strong beauty could be the icelandic duo of twice Crossfit Games champions (aka the “fittest woman on earth”), Anníe Mist Þórisdóttir and Katrín Tanja Davíðsdóttir.
     
    Only if you like women who are 'roided-up:

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DdlkskhU8AAeSoI.jpg

    https://i.pinimg.com/originals/c0/93/93/c09393f08781b50c208d8994d836b36b.jpg

    Sadly, even the crossfit girls have fallen prey to PEDs

    Athletes in the Crossfit Games are drug tested.

    • Replies: @syonredux

    Athletes in the Crossfit Games are drug tested.
     
    So are top tennis players like Serena Williams.....




    https://i.pinimg.com/736x/49/d8/a2/49d8a22a4ad29496d16a6f4729697780.jpg
    , @stillCARealist
    Fat lot of good it does. Even in local Crossfit tournaments the athletes are juicing. My local gym has some top women who fume and fuss over the bulking up of other female Crossfitters. In less than one year you'll see these people adding huge muscles and shedding nearly all body fat. A woman's body isn't meant to do that.

    In fact, if you want to know if a woman is taking testosterone, just look at her abs. If she has a six pack, she's on it. A muscular, female stomach just won't grow those without male hormones.
  182. @prosa123
    Athletes in the Crossfit Games are drug tested.

    Athletes in the Crossfit Games are drug tested.

    So are top tennis players like Serena Williams…..

    • Replies: @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    Disgusting. Degrading. Disturbing. This has got to stop!
  183. Anon[328] • Disclaimer says:
    @Astorian
    Heterosexual women rarely care about basketball, soccer, or any other team sport. The sports they do like watching most are figure skating and gymnastics. Among straight women, the most famous American athletes ever include Peggy Fleming, Dorothy Hammill and Mary Lou Retton.

    But go ahead, try using Megan Rapinoe and Brittney Griner to sell cosmetics and clothes. That's sure to work.

    But go ahead, try using Megan Rapinoe and Brittney Griner to sell cosmetics and clothes. That’s sure to work.

    Recently Japanese cosmetics companies have been featuring, let’s say, non-beautiful, but well-known and popular, female Japanese comedians and celebrities in their ads. It occurred to me that it may be an attempt to sell their brands to less attractive customers who might respond to models “who look like me.” The transformations of these people is quite remarkable. They can doll anyone up it seems. But knowing the way they really look, I almost want to gag. Seriously, there is something analogous the the male heterosexual disgust reaction to an M-to-F transexual going on, seeing a real dog caked up to look semi-attractive, when you know she’s really a dog.

  184. @Steve Sailer
    As the first American woman to win the Olympic figure skating gold, Peggy Fleming has had huge name recognition for 50 years.

    Minor point: Peggy wasn’t the first American woman to win Olympic gold. Americans dominated the sport in the 50s, and then the entire US team was killed in a plane crash in 1961. Peggy was the comeback from that loss.

    Tenley Allbright won in 1956, Carol Heiss in 1960.

    • Replies: @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    "Tenley Allbright won in 1956, Carol Heiss in 1960"

    And no one remembers them today. Famous women athletes are remembered across generations.

    It also certainly helped that Peggy was considered very hot for her era, which helped in marketing and packaging her for the endorsements to Middle America.
  185. @al gore rhythms
    "Hundreds of thousands of fans turned out on Wednesday to celebrate the women’s soccer team in New York, where team members and fans chanted “equal pay” together, highlighting how closely the team has connected itself to the business of its sport."

    Real fans of real sports teams are more interested in supporting their teams than trying to effect social change or shouting political slogans. It just goes to show that sport for sport's sake is much more a male thing.

    Maybe a few lesbians felt compelled to go and cheer the women's team out of a sense of solidarity. But I doubt they will be buying season tickets and club scarves to go and watch women's football every weekend.

    I suppose you could say that if men's football is all about tribalism and nationalism, then women's football is all about the lesbian version of nationalism--feminism. The actual football matches themselves are less important (and less interesting) than the ongoing grudge match against their team's arch rival, Patriarchy United.

    “Maybe a few lesbians felt compelled to go and cheer the women’s team out of a sense of solidarity. But I doubt they will be buying season tickets and club scarves to go and watch women’s football every weekend.”

    Right, because they already bought their WNBA season tickets and there’s only so much solidarity to go around.

  186. @Jonathan Mason

    Trying to think of a single women’s sport in the US where a commanding majority of men would watch…nope. Can’t think of a single one.
     
    Women's tennis is probably the most popular TV women's sport with men, no doubt due to sweaty women bending over to receive serve with their legs spread and finely toned buttocks barely concealed by miniskirts. This is a very pleasing vista for the male brain.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GkuDViOUcG8

    After about the age of 12, most teen boys aren’t watching women’s sports, period. There is such a thing as the internet, porn sites, etc. And no women athletes can compete with that sort of sport.

    So for the most part, the majority of women’s sports are going to be women (and even they prefer to watch men’s sports). Adult males aren’t watching women’s tennis, women’s gymnastics (aside from the gays), women’s sports, period. Why would they? They can watch their own sports which they passionately care about.

    Notice, that you don’t see Steve’s beloved Sabermetrics applied to women’s softball. Why not? You don’t see talking heads on major networks (not cable) over analyze for weeks on end the minutiae of women’s basketball. How come? Aren’t these legitimate sports? Don’t they have interesting statistics to analyze?

    Over-analysis, breaking down the inside strategies only applies to men’s sports and because men don’t care about women’s sports. Period.

  187. @syonredux

    Athletes in the Crossfit Games are drug tested.
     
    So are top tennis players like Serena Williams.....




    https://i.pinimg.com/736x/49/d8/a2/49d8a22a4ad29496d16a6f4729697780.jpg

    Disgusting. Degrading. Disturbing. This has got to stop!

  188. @education realist
    Minor point: Peggy wasn't the first American woman to win Olympic gold. Americans dominated the sport in the 50s, and then the entire US team was killed in a plane crash in 1961. Peggy was the comeback from that loss.

    Tenley Allbright won in 1956, Carol Heiss in 1960.

    “Tenley Allbright won in 1956, Carol Heiss in 1960”

    And no one remembers them today. Famous women athletes are remembered across generations.

    It also certainly helped that Peggy was considered very hot for her era, which helped in marketing and packaging her for the endorsements to Middle America.

    • Replies: @education realist
    "Peggy wasn’t the first American woman to win Olympic gold. "

    That was my statement. Possibly you were too busy spamming the thread with three other equally meaningless comments to take the time to understand what people are actually saying.
    , @Brutusale
    We remember Albright around here; there's a rink named after her.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tenley_Albright

    Being from Boston, she does some other stuff, too.
  189. Female sprinters used to be appealing to the eye, but the 100m, 200m, and 400m girls are too muscular now and the 800m and 1500m girls look like they haven’t eaten in 40 days. Maybe they can introduce a 600m race and split the difference in body types (no trannies, please).

    • Replies: @Brutusale
    Your comment reminded me of this. This was like the Harding-Kerrigan tiff, only in this case both were totally unlikable characters.

    https://www.gq-magazine.co.uk/article/mary-decker-zola-budd-called-the-fall

  190. @njguy73
    What if I told you that a woman figure skater could be a three-time Olympic gold medalist?

    That she could make a fortune doing professional ice shows, make the cover of Time, appear in a dozen or so movies, marry a tin heir who during their marriage would buy the Yankees, be married two more times, and at the time of her death in 1969 have earned more than any athlete ever?

    Not sure why you think any of that is surprising. But there wasn’t much competition.

    • Replies: @njguy73
    My point is that pre-Feminist Mystique, there was a female athlete who out-earned every male athlete and was a bona fide celebrity. I don't find it surprising, but some young person might, being that in their eyes women weren't allowed to achieve anything before 1963.
  191. @Autochthon
    I hate bringing it up twice now, but I earnestly believe that, for reasons of wanting to seem socially acceptable in line with modern mores of debauched prudery*, people grossly ignore the substantial – perhaps overwhelming – role the athletes' attractiveness (not mere ability) plays in the popularity of women's sport, far more so than in men's sports, and for reasons having to do with human sexuality we are all expected to pretend is not as it is....

    I'll confess that I watched women's tennis as an adolescent for the visuals but, especially, to hear the grunts and screams. Better eye-candy, and with more of the wrapper peeled away, was often available from gymnastics, figure-skating, cheer-leading, volleyball, and swimming – but none of these provided that aural frisson.

    (No jeering, please; twelve-year-old boys are slaves to biochemistry!)

    Steve rightly points out women's tennis was once much more popular. As was gymnastics (never since have I noticed the crazed popularity enjoyed by Nadia and Mary-Lou Retton). The topic will never be explored, because it is too bizarre and gauche, but I do wonder what contribution (doubtless others factors also are at work) ubiquitous, high-definition pornography had on decreasing the popularity of women's sports like these, as millions of males aged around twelve to eighteen no longer sought to view it for embarrassing reasons – and maybe even later kept viewing it for those same reasons or for a genuine appreciation of the sport developed incidentally. I am serious. Younger folks won't understand, but time was, a televised beauty pageant or a women's sporting event was one of the only opportunities for boys driven to madness by their hormones to see moving pictures in living colour of scantily clad beauties in a private venue....

    *My term for the now prevailing paradoxical equivalent to annarcho-tyranny in matters of sexuality: adolescent girls are dressed like hookers, pornography treated as art, and degenerates like hookers and homosexuals are sanctified even as it becomes anathema to notice buxom seventeen-year-olds are attractive, ask a woman from the office out to drinks, or call a lady "my dear" and hold the door for her or – God forbid! – innocuously kiss her hand or cheek.

    “Steve rightly points out women’s tennis was once much more popular.”

    Well those were the days when being politically correct was incorrect. Battles were fought on the court and off. The most ardent personalities are mild compared to the period Mr. Sailor is referring to.

    The drama was actually drama by real people being sincerely dramatic. You talked smack you got smack back In that era the rivalries were full on

    And you can’t mention rivalry in tennis without noting Chris Evert and Martina Navratilova

  192. “Steve rightly points out women’s tennis was once much more popular.”

    Well those were the days when being politically correct was incorrect. Battles were fought on the court and off. The most ardent personalities are mild compared to the period Mr. Sailor is referring to.

    The drama was actually drama by real people being sincerely dramatic. You talked smack you got smack back In that era the rivalries were full on

    And you can’t mention rivalry in tennis without noting Chris Evert and Martina Navratilova and the male rivalries only made the women’s that more interesting.

    McEnroe and Borg . . . and the surprise drama of Arther Ashe

    There have been other rivalries but those that occurred in the 1970’s changed the game of tennis and brought in millions of new watchers. It was just reflective of the time — energized.

  193. Only a couple of people here have mentioned Olga Korbut.

    She was a big name after she dominated Olympic girl’s gymnastics in 1972, but seems to be little remembered now. If you had asked anyone to name a few famous female athletes in, say, 1975, she would likely have been one of the names.

    Perhaps that’s because she withdrew back behind the Iron Curtain after the Olympics, into the Brezhnev era Soviet Union, and so, never really got the benefit of media and advertising exposure that others from her time did? Or is it because she was too child-like in appearance?

  194. @Autochthon
    Pornography is all about idealisations of lust and sexiness, the pinnacle if which is sexy women. By and large, women are the stars. Men are the audience. Many of the male participants are so unremarkable or even unattractive as to be commonly called "stunt-cocks" or, more charitably, "male talent." With a few exceptions, no one much knows or cares who they are, they make far less money than the females, and they are fungible.

    Why? Because pornography's raison d'tre is its male audience admiring the females and (even if only subconsciously) identifying with the males. Mind you, the viewer is not identifying with a character the way an indecisive person might identify with Hamlet's torments. It's more base – the male viewer enters a fugue state and projects himself into the role of the male performer (bear in mind what men commonly so when watching pornography!).

    Spectator-sports is similar, but different. They are all about the idealisation of physical fitness and power (strength, speed, dexterity...) – the pinnacle of which is athletic men. By and large, men are the stars. Men and women are the audience, but mostly men; and they watch for different reasons. (Here the faults in the analogy arise, but I still reckon it is useful.) The female participants are so unremarkable they are relegated to separate events, for their own sakes, as otherwise they would not even have a chance to compete. With a few exceptions, no one much knows or cares who they are, they make far less money than the males, and they are fungible.

    Why? Because spectator-sports' raison d'tre is its male audience entering a fugue state and identifying (if only subconsciously) with the males. (Think of the fans who grit their teeth, lean in intently for the challenging action (pitch, final stretch, etc.) then whoop and pump their fists when success occurs – they are vicariously putting themselves through the same series of emotions as the athlete. They say "we" won. They even wear jerseys with their sports hero's name emblazoned across the back.)

    Those women who enjoy watching sports are as often as not admiring, rather than truly identifying with, the athletes as pinnacles of male perfection (much as men who watch pornography are admiring the female performers.)

    No profound, grandiose theory underlies any if this idea, but I think it helps to understand that men and women (generally speaking) watch sport for different reasons. And I think the analogy may help to underline this difference.

    Male porn stars make far less money in front of the camera, that’s true. That’s also why they eventually tend to go into directing and producing (behind the camera) where there’s substantially more money to be made compared to the women porn stars. Also notice, that the vast majority of porn behind the camera positions (producer, director) are dominated by men. Figurative and literal control over the product (the women).

    As far as the rest goes, regarding the reasons men and women watch sports, the analysis is right on the mark. The young women may not know who is playing the sport, but they definitely know which individual is the main Alpha on the team (e.g. QB; HRhitters; FW/PG in NBA). The alpha players who score the most points are thus able to score the most alpha girls.

    Note: Is there such a thing as golf groupies on the PGA Tour? Is that a real thing? Perhaps that question should go to Steve, who’s written so admirably about the sport over the years, yet ironically that’s the one section of golf he hasn’t directly written about—do young chicks actually follow PGA pros around the course in the way that they would go to MLB/NFL/NBA events in an effort to score an athlete?

    *Do they? Golf Groupies following players on the PGA tour, is that an actual thing?

    *I’m NOT referring to the chicks that Eldrick got in his spare time. Not talking about that kind of thing. It’s a well known truism that young women on the hotter side tend to go to team sport events in an effort to get a hookup with an alpha athlete. Just wondered if its a thing in the PGA as well. You certainly don’t see them very often at PGA Majors, at the high end country clubs, but suppose its possible that if they wanted to go to the event to meet up with a young PGAer, that they’d find a way to get inside?

    Do the PGA ranked players have golf groupies following them on the tour? Is that a thing?

    Legitimate question since I’ve never heard about it either way.

  195. @guest
    Can the buying public relate to a girl who grew up in the wilderness, fights centaurs, and has taken a vow of virginity?

    Can the buying public relate to a girl who grew up in the wilderness, fights centaurs, and has taken a vow of virginity?

    Sounds like a Marvel Comics Super-heroine to me.

  196. @Reg Cæsar
    I don't know about the most famous, but the first famous must have been Atalanta.


    http://ancientrome.ru/art/artwork/sculp/rom/copy/sculp/scu0190.jpg

    http://www.sothebys.com/content/dam/stb/lots/N08/N08603/N08603-23-lr-1.jpg


    https://www.analisidellopera.it/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/Guido_Reni_Atalanta_e_Ippomene-1-1662x1200.jpg

    She's given her name to an automaker, aircraft, several British naval vessels, features on at least three continents, and an Italian football club.

    https://www.turfeurope.eu/immagini/ext/2018_09_4_14_11_48.jpg

    I guess we didn’t spend our time studying the classics to no good end. I got mine in a bit earlier, but you did it classier. Well done …

    http://www.unz.com/isteve/who-was-the-most-famous-woman-athlete-ever/#comment-3329430

  197. @syonredux

    OT: Massive New York blackout

    Does that even happen in major cities around the world, like
    London, Paris, Tokyo, etc, in this century?
     
    Yep. For example,




    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2003_London_blackout

    Re: 2003 London blackout

    I’m not surprised. Based on my visits, London’s infrastructure has
    also deteriorated in the last few decades.

  198. @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    "Tenley Allbright won in 1956, Carol Heiss in 1960"

    And no one remembers them today. Famous women athletes are remembered across generations.

    It also certainly helped that Peggy was considered very hot for her era, which helped in marketing and packaging her for the endorsements to Middle America.

    “Peggy wasn’t the first American woman to win Olympic gold. ”

    That was my statement. Possibly you were too busy spamming the thread with three other equally meaningless comments to take the time to understand what people are actually saying.

    • Replies: @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    You didn't read what I wrote. I only quoted your statement of previous US gold winners in skating. My point was that no one remembers them (Heiss and Hallbright) today like they recall Peggy Fleming. Nice that they won, but they're not remembered.
  199. Mia Hamm earned quite a bit of money from endorsements following the 1999 Women’s World Cup. She was cute, down-to-earth, heterosexual and a great role model, and companies flocked to her. Via Wikipedia:

    Hamm has been called the most marketable female athlete of her generation. During her time as an international soccer player, she signed endorsement deals with Gatorade, Nike, Dreyer’s Ice Cream, Pepsi, Nabisco, Fleet Bank, Earthgrains, and Powerbar.

    Hamm was featured on a Wheaties box following the 1999 World Cup and endorsed the first Soccer Barbie by Mattel. She co-starred with Michael Jordan in a popular television commercial for Gatorade which featured the two athletes competing against each other in a variety of sports while the song Anything You Can Do (I Can Do Better) is heard. The commercial ends with Hamm throwing Jordan to the ground in a judo match.

    In 1997, she starred in a popular commercial for Pert Plus. In 2000, the video game, Mia Hamm Soccer 64 was released for Nintendo 64. It was the first game to feature female athletes only and sold a “relatively high” 42,886 copies in the United States.

    When the now-defunct WPS was founded, it was Hamm’s likeness used for the league’s logo, much like Jerry West with the NBA.

    Today, of course, Hamm is married to Nomar Garciaparra and they have three children. She is a part owner of Los Angeles Football Club in MLS.

    Of course, none of that history matters because Rapinoe.

    • Replies: @Marty T
    Ah yes, when star athletes weren't trying to force leftist politics down our throats.
  200. @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    "Tenley Allbright won in 1956, Carol Heiss in 1960"

    And no one remembers them today. Famous women athletes are remembered across generations.

    It also certainly helped that Peggy was considered very hot for her era, which helped in marketing and packaging her for the endorsements to Middle America.

    We remember Albright around here; there’s a rink named after her.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tenley_Albright

    Being from Boston, she does some other stuff, too.

  201. Here is the Gatorade commercial with Mia Hamm and Michael Jordan:

  202. @Johnny789
    Female sprinters used to be appealing to the eye, but the 100m, 200m, and 400m girls are too muscular now and the 800m and 1500m girls look like they haven't eaten in 40 days. Maybe they can introduce a 600m race and split the difference in body types (no trannies, please).

    Your comment reminded me of this. This was like the Harding-Kerrigan tiff, only in this case both were totally unlikable characters.

    https://www.gq-magazine.co.uk/article/mary-decker-zola-budd-called-the-fall

  203. @theMann
    Людмила Турищева.

    And if I have to explain who that is, shame on you.

    Also, please feel free to compare her extraordinarily classy behaviour with the relentless boorishness of, well, every American Athlete of the last 20 years.

    Ludmilla was amazing

  204. @education realist
    "Peggy wasn’t the first American woman to win Olympic gold. "

    That was my statement. Possibly you were too busy spamming the thread with three other equally meaningless comments to take the time to understand what people are actually saying.

    You didn’t read what I wrote. I only quoted your statement of previous US gold winners in skating. My point was that no one remembers them (Heiss and Hallbright) today like they recall Peggy Fleming. Nice that they won, but they’re not remembered.

  205. @Art Deco
    No, I think 20 years later. Both she and Olga Korbut live in the southwest, I think.

    Surya Bonaly did as well. She married a Minnesotan and lives there now.

    However, she does ads for PETA, which is not exactly going native in a place where even the progs hunt and fish and chow down at steak houses.

  206. @prosa123
    Athletes in the Crossfit Games are drug tested.

    Fat lot of good it does. Even in local Crossfit tournaments the athletes are juicing. My local gym has some top women who fume and fuss over the bulking up of other female Crossfitters. In less than one year you’ll see these people adding huge muscles and shedding nearly all body fat. A woman’s body isn’t meant to do that.

    In fact, if you want to know if a woman is taking testosterone, just look at her abs. If she has a six pack, she’s on it. A muscular, female stomach just won’t grow those without male hormones.

  207. @Laurence Whelk
    Well, of course, these days “history” means “stuff that happened during my lifetime”, so I can see Evert as a contender. I recall in the ‘70-80s the most universally watched women’s sports were tennis, figure skating, and gymnastics, and that most of your big name, Wheaties-box, product endorsing woman athletes came from those sports.

    But, then, were any of the sports women of that era (which I witnessed) really more “famous” - known to and loved by a vast section of the public - than Babe Didrikson or Sonja Henning?

    I’m not sure anyone can ever again be as universally famous as 20th century figures - seems to me that that was the peak period of mass communication; now the world seems to be divided up into smaller and smaller audiences with their own narrowing interests. I honestly was unaware there was a national women's soccer team and that there was a women's soccer world cup until several weeks ago when I happened to be in downtown LA and saw the giant projections of team members on skyscrapers there and thought, “who are these women exactly?”.

    When I was a kid and there were only three television networks and most people only had access to those and their locally produced daily newspaper, I don’t think one could possibly miss something that “big” in sports, even if you weren’t that interested in sports. I think the girl soccer thing is big in certain milieux, and since those people think they are the only people whose interests and opinions matter, then girl soccer is the biggest and most important thing EVER. Not to me.

    She may not be the most famous wahmun afflete in history, but my personal favorite, based on my own particular criteria, is Katarina Witt. Naturally I choose a Teutonic goddess, since I’m a Huwite Subpremises.

    https://i.pinimg.com/originals/20/46/42/20464200ae5484d993630638200d10bd.jpg

    Katarina Witt did a Playboy pictorial where she looked damned good — some in black and white.

    She’s in the in-between grouping of Teutons looks wise — she ain’t beautiful, but she ain’t a gargoyle like some of them( Steffi Graff).

    Katerina Witt’s selling point is that body. I bet she still has nice legs.

    It’s time to let the Germans be Germans again. Kill the EU and the ECB and the euro currency and get the US military out of Germany. Let the Germans turn the screw and get a nuclear deterrent.

    The German return to the Deutschmark will kill a lot of German exports, but they’ll get their sovereignty back.

  208. @Steve Sailer
    Beautiful young women skating in the Olympics makes good TV.

    Beautiful young women skating in the Olympics makes good TV.

    Ethel Merman berating Milton Berle from the back seat of a car makes good TV and a good movie.

  209. @education realist
    Not sure why you think any of that is surprising. But there wasn't much competition.

    My point is that pre-Feminist Mystique, there was a female athlete who out-earned every male athlete and was a bona fide celebrity. I don’t find it surprising, but some young person might, being that in their eyes women weren’t allowed to achieve anything before 1963.

  210. @guest
    Can the buying public relate to a girl who grew up in the wilderness, fights centaurs, and has taken a vow of virginity?

    Can the buying public relate to a girl who grew up in the wilderness, fights centaurs, and has taken a vow of virginity?

    Her story was retold on the 1972 album which I’d call the seminal cultural touchstone of my generation.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_to_Be…_You_and_Me#Overview

  211. Katarina Witt is East German!

    Katarina Witt is only 5 feet 5 inches tall. I thought she was 5 feet 9 inches or so tall.

    Katarina Witt had an interesting connection to the authorities in East Germany, but that was before the wall came down and Germany re-unified.

    The American Empire told the Ruskis that German re-unification would not lead to the American Empire slouching towards Russia — that was a big fat lie.

    I believe Alternative for Deutschland gets good support in East Germany.

  212. @Laurence Whelk
    Well, of course, these days “history” means “stuff that happened during my lifetime”, so I can see Evert as a contender. I recall in the ‘70-80s the most universally watched women’s sports were tennis, figure skating, and gymnastics, and that most of your big name, Wheaties-box, product endorsing woman athletes came from those sports.

    But, then, were any of the sports women of that era (which I witnessed) really more “famous” - known to and loved by a vast section of the public - than Babe Didrikson or Sonja Henning?

    I’m not sure anyone can ever again be as universally famous as 20th century figures - seems to me that that was the peak period of mass communication; now the world seems to be divided up into smaller and smaller audiences with their own narrowing interests. I honestly was unaware there was a national women's soccer team and that there was a women's soccer world cup until several weeks ago when I happened to be in downtown LA and saw the giant projections of team members on skyscrapers there and thought, “who are these women exactly?”.

    When I was a kid and there were only three television networks and most people only had access to those and their locally produced daily newspaper, I don’t think one could possibly miss something that “big” in sports, even if you weren’t that interested in sports. I think the girl soccer thing is big in certain milieux, and since those people think they are the only people whose interests and opinions matter, then girl soccer is the biggest and most important thing EVER. Not to me.

    She may not be the most famous wahmun afflete in history, but my personal favorite, based on my own particular criteria, is Katarina Witt. Naturally I choose a Teutonic goddess, since I’m a Huwite Subpremises.

    https://i.pinimg.com/originals/20/46/42/20464200ae5484d993630638200d10bd.jpg

    I was pretty young for Witt…but I do remember her fondly.

  213. @Deckin
    Chris Evert is a really good candidate. Younger people have no idea how popular tennis was with the masses in the 70s. And she was at the top when much of the top players on both tours were Americans. As a player she had no weapons except an incredible mental toughness that we no longer associate with US players on either tour. She would just refuse to miss against players who could outhit her.

    It’s interesting to see that after being a country club sport for the most part for 50 years and then a mass sport for about 10 years, then falling off the rails for 25 years, tennis is huge with the children of Asian immigrants (both south and east) in the US: check out the names of top ranked juniors some time. I believe Tiger Mom’s daughter was a good player.

    Meanwhile our top NCAA teams are full of European players looking for both experience and a free education. And the USTA pimps the hell out of any black player who can win a match ( e. g. Taylor Townsend and now Coco G). Interesting times.

    Interesting Tim

    Interesting times for the sport v

    Hold up, hold up. Chris Evert was a standard baseline player. She seldom ever (for most of her career) went to the net if she didn’t have to, and until Martina Nvratilova came along, she didn’t have to.

    Martina was the first woman to really go to the net, she actually played aggressive in that sense. Much like John McEnroe, they both made their careers on going to the net more than their rivals. Serve and volley. If Martina didn’t come along, Evert would’ve won even more. Yes, she could return just about everything that came her way from other standard baseline players, but she couldn’t fare as well when she had to constantly go to the net vs. Martina.

    Chris Evert also didn’t have a massive powerful serve, compared to the Williams sisters of today. Remember, during the ’70’s they used wood rackets.

  214. @poolside
    Mia Hamm earned quite a bit of money from endorsements following the 1999 Women's World Cup. She was cute, down-to-earth, heterosexual and a great role model, and companies flocked to her. Via Wikipedia:

    Hamm has been called the most marketable female athlete of her generation. During her time as an international soccer player, she signed endorsement deals with Gatorade, Nike, Dreyer's Ice Cream, Pepsi, Nabisco, Fleet Bank, Earthgrains, and Powerbar.

    Hamm was featured on a Wheaties box following the 1999 World Cup and endorsed the first Soccer Barbie by Mattel. She co-starred with Michael Jordan in a popular television commercial for Gatorade which featured the two athletes competing against each other in a variety of sports while the song Anything You Can Do (I Can Do Better) is heard. The commercial ends with Hamm throwing Jordan to the ground in a judo match.

    In 1997, she starred in a popular commercial for Pert Plus. In 2000, the video game, Mia Hamm Soccer 64 was released for Nintendo 64. It was the first game to feature female athletes only and sold a "relatively high" 42,886 copies in the United States.
     

    When the now-defunct WPS was founded, it was Hamm's likeness used for the league's logo, much like Jerry West with the NBA.

    Today, of course, Hamm is married to Nomar Garciaparra and they have three children. She is a part owner of Los Angeles Football Club in MLS.

    Of course, none of that history matters because Rapinoe.

    Ah yes, when star athletes weren’t trying to force leftist politics down our throats.

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