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White Privilege or White Death?

From my new column in Taki’s Magazine:

White Privilege vs. White Death
by Steve Sailer
March 29, 2017

Nobel-winning economist Angus Deaton and his wife Anne Case have released a new study, “Mortality and Morbidity in the 21st Century,” enumerating how many unprivileged whites have died from despair while privileged whites prattled about the curse of white privilege.

Judging from mortality statistics, something very bad has happened to working-class white Americans in this century.

Nonetheless, until just 18 months ago, barely anybody in positions of authority or influence in America had noticed it, so pervasive is our system’s animosity toward whites of humble backgrounds.

Read the whole thing there.

Here’s a key graph from Case and Deaton’s new paper:

Screenshot 2017-03-28 01.58.56

Each different colored line represents a birth year among non-Hispanic whites. For example, the red line represents people born in 1950, who turned 18 in 1968 and have or will turn 67 in 2017, or would if they weren’t already dead.

The green line, which shows the single biggest growth in mortality in five year increments, represents those born in 1955, who turned 18 in 1973.

Each line represents mortality rates from what Case and Deaton call “deaths of despair,” and are restricted to white Americans who aren’t college graduates.

Notice the giant increase in “deaths of despair” among Baby Boomers (1946-1964). Working class white Americans who were born in 1945 and turned 18 in prelapsarian 1963 have very low rates of deaths of despair, while working class white Americans born 10 or 15 years later have much higher rates. And then things keep getting worse, with another acceleration among the latest cohort (those born in 1980 who would turn 37 in 2017).

People born c. 1945:

 
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  1. “Much of 1960s liberalism begins with: “Assume everyone is above average in intelligence.”

    This story is still told. I just read it a few weeks ago in a decent German paper in this version: Our brain knows no limits! (The reason, that it was brought up in this very moment, might be the wish to integrate all this foreigners, that came here – and do much worse on the job market, than initially expected – by – ehem – experts (= experts in wishful thinking).

    Number two is a simple sentence by one of the most read “1968″ ff. social psychologists and philosophers, Erich Fromm, to which Steve Sailer kind of refers to: People do have a “hunger for structure”.
    Jonathan Franzen worked this old (originally hegelian) thought out in his novel Freedom: Freedom alone won’t stand. It’s always: Freedom & – – belonging, if you want to build a functioning society.

    Pink Floyd experienced the importance of the balance between liberation and the human longing for structure via the problems they encountered with Syd Barrett. Maybe that was the reason for their biggest artistic accomplishments, which came after the Barrett-experience (yes, they for sure were: Experienced – in oh so many ways…).

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anonym
    Pink Floyd experienced the importance of the balance between liberation and the human longing for structure via the problems they encountered with Syd Barrett. Maybe that was the reason for their biggest artistic accomplishments, which came after the Barrett-experience (yes, they for sure were: Experienced – in oh so many ways…).

    I'm certainly a fan of Pink Floyd the musical experience, they were brilliant, but especially Roger Waters can be whiny, petulant and quite nasty. If they experienced much of a longing for structure, they were certainly ones to tear down the establishment of the day. Do you see much evidence they appreciated structure, other than musical structure? In The Wall, there was certainly a lot of pathologizing of concerns about white civilization as madness. How dare anyone be concerned about the "queens and the coons and the reds and the Jews"? Indeed, the only sane thing to do would be to turn over your country and make it a non-British Babel, surely Roger Waters must be quite happy sitting back and watching it all burn.

    Animals had a lot of Marxist class envy/hatred. Practically the whole album is that, put to music.

    https://youtu.be/2Okd3Oyii7E

    Oh well. At least they produced some great music - music that has been embraced by the stoner crowd that unlike the Grateful Dead, does not require a pot consumption measured in x number of ounces per week to appreciate.
    , @Desiderius

    Experienced – in oh so many ways…
     
    From the original expert in early mortality from drugs, alcohol, and suicide:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F2zavD9w98E
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  2. The initial mortality rate declines steadily, perhaps due to improved medical care, until the 1980 cohort when it jumps upward. This is perhaps one of the most disturbing results.

    One cause might be neglect by liberated or drug-afflicted mothers and fathers. What is the age of these initial points?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Robert Hume
    I wasn't thinking very clearly this early in the morning. The initial mortalities are changing to younger and younger ages for the younger cohorts, so naturally one would expect them to decline.

    Still, it seems significant that from 1970 to 1975 the mortality at age 25 increases from about 25 to 42.

    And possibly the same remarks about liberation and drugs apply.
    , @res
    I think you are misreading the graph. Age is the x axis (i.e. there is no decline, just things becoming much worse over time). Steve, not sure what happened, but the y axis label is missing. It should be "deaths per 100,000".

    There are many stunning graphs in that paper. Check out the international comparisons to US whites! For example, Figure 1.3 shows all-cause mortality rates ages 45-54 and shows the uptrend starting in 1998 compared with steep drops internationally (but I think the birth cohort plot Steve shows is better at highlighting the underlying issue).

    This is depressingly real to me right now given recent events. Someone I know who could have been a case study for this died far too young yesterday after an extended period of poor health (e.g. on SSDI, frequently hospitalized).
  3. If this were any other demographic group, it would be cause for a declaration of national emergency. The trend lines on that graph are terrifying.

    My suggestion about another cause is the decline of religious faith that started in the 1960s. I may be projecting a bit, since I turned 18 in 1972 and my family stopped attending church in 1973, but if a person has no transcendental reason to live, and there’s no reason to think the material circumstances will improve, death through despair becomes much more likely.

    In the short term, only a religious revival along the lines of The Great Awakening is likely to produce any change.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Opinionator
    if a person has no transcendental reason to live, and there’s no reason to think the material circumstances will improve, death through despair becomes much more likely.

    Is that the experience of men who have children?
    , @Dieter Kief
    The decline of Religion coincides with the rise of the popular culture - and the slogan: "Let the Good Times Roll!" ("= Nothing But blue skies, From Now on").

    And both go along with a very comfortable US-situation in the world economy, which is in constant decline with harsh consequences for the average unskilled worker since when: ca. 1973**.

    All three factors are interrelated - and cause lots of questions - and lots of real problems, obviously.


    ** Donald Trump at least acknowledges this cruel fact in reviving coal-mining (reflection ought to be continued on this subject as well...).

    , @PennTothal

    My suggestion about another cause is the decline of religious faith
     
    "And be ye not like those who forget God, and whom He hath therefore caused to forget their own selves."

    -Qur'an 59:19
    , @Coemgen
    The drop in church attendance is likely strongly related to the breakup of white ethnic neighborhoods in large cities during the 50s, 60s, and 70s (see white flight. The flight was in response to Black migration from the Deep South to northern cities and the subsequent riots that occurred there. When the riots failed to rout out the more stubborn white urban ethnics, busing was introduced to provide the coup-de-grace.

    Note that the despair of the white ethnics was mentioned in the NYT twenty-years-ago.
    , @The preferred nomenclature is...
    Amen to that. Truer words have never been written on this blog, including by our esteemed host, Mr. Sailer.
  4. @Diversity Heretic
    If this were any other demographic group, it would be cause for a declaration of national emergency. The trend lines on that graph are terrifying.

    My suggestion about another cause is the decline of religious faith that started in the 1960s. I may be projecting a bit, since I turned 18 in 1972 and my family stopped attending church in 1973, but if a person has no transcendental reason to live, and there's no reason to think the material circumstances will improve, death through despair becomes much more likely.

    In the short term, only a religious revival along the lines of The Great Awakening is likely to produce any change.

    if a person has no transcendental reason to live, and there’s no reason to think the material circumstances will improve, death through despair becomes much more likely.

    Is that the experience of men who have children?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Hunsdon
    Aren't children in and of themselves transcendental reasons to live?
    , @Altai
    Is that the experience of children?
    , @Diversity Heretic
    I'd say it depends on the relationship with the man's children. Estranged children may be yet one more source of despair.
  5. @Diversity Heretic
    If this were any other demographic group, it would be cause for a declaration of national emergency. The trend lines on that graph are terrifying.

    My suggestion about another cause is the decline of religious faith that started in the 1960s. I may be projecting a bit, since I turned 18 in 1972 and my family stopped attending church in 1973, but if a person has no transcendental reason to live, and there's no reason to think the material circumstances will improve, death through despair becomes much more likely.

    In the short term, only a religious revival along the lines of The Great Awakening is likely to produce any change.

    The decline of Religion coincides with the rise of the popular culture – and the slogan: “Let the Good Times Roll!” (“= Nothing But blue skies, From Now on”).

    And both go along with a very comfortable US-situation in the world economy, which is in constant decline with harsh consequences for the average unskilled worker since when: ca. 1973**.

    All three factors are interrelated – and cause lots of questions – and lots of real problems, obviously.

    ** Donald Trump at least acknowledges this cruel fact in reviving coal-mining (reflection ought to be continued on this subject as well…).

    Read More
  6. If we order HS graduates by class rank across time, we’d see that college is capturing people from further down the rank ordering as we progress from the post-war era to the present. This means that those who are without a BA today are different (in terms of their placement on the HS class rank) then those who graduated in earlier eras.

    IQ is correlated to health outcomes. Smarter people have better economic prospects, wider career opportunities, and a more diligent attitude towards taking care of their health.

    If you look at the slopes of the 1960 to 1980 cohorts they’re fairly similar, implying that younger cohorts are reaching mortality levels, at a given age, which are experienced by the other cohorts at progressively higher ages.

    I suspect that there is a confounding effect related to HS class rank/IQ at work here because we know that university enrollment has been expanding over time and the mean quality of student has been declining, so parsing by BA level of education is not capturing a completely valid metric unless we posit that the education value, apart from student intelligence, has a significant effect on people’s lives.

    Read More
    • Agree: International Jew
    • Replies: @Hodag
    I was just going to say this. White death may not be happening quite the way claimed. There was an article in Slate yesterday on the subject but I did not finish it.
    , @res
    That's a good point. The question is the effect size. I don't think this is nearly enough to explain the plot Steve presented. It might be possible to check this by looking at the results for all three educational groups over time. This excerpt from page 7 of the paper is very relevant:

    We shall be much concerned with education, and work with three educational groups, those with a high school degree or less, those with some college but no BA, and those with a BA or more. Among white non-Hispanics ages 45-54, the share of each education group in the population has seen little change since the early 1990s, with those with no more than a high school degree comprising approximately 40 percent, some college (30 percent) and a BA or more (30 percent). It is important not to focus on those with less than a high school degree, a group that has grown markedly smaller over time, and is likely to be increasingly negatively selected on health.
     
    In particular note the second sentence which indicates the factor you describe has not been in play for ~25 years (and indicates the researchers have thought about this issue!). It would also be interesting to compare less than HS diploma in older cohorts with HS diploma in newer cohorts.

    There is also a geographic component (from page 13):

    The epidemic spread from the southwest, where it was centered in 2000, first to Appalachia, Florida and the west coast by the mid-2000s, and is now country-wide (Figure 1.6). This increase was seen at every level of residential urbanization in the US (Appendix Figure 2); it is neither an urban nor a rural epidemic, rather both.
     
    I'm curious why it would start in the SW?!
    , @International Jew
    Another confounding factor: just what do they consider a death from alcohol? Unlike suicide, that's not so clearcut. Do all the data points in that graph reflect a consistent definition of "death due to alcohol abuse"?
    , @NC
    Dude, this isn't that hard to figure out.
    First of all, we're not talking about a difference in life expectancy between the college educated and those without. This is about skyrocketing mortality rates for HS educated whites. That shouldn't ever be happening in a 1st world nation for any demographic group. Anyone who isn't blind or malicious can see that the white American working class is in a state of economic, social and spiritual meltdown due to trends and deliberate policy decisions that have been transparently catastrophic for decades. Also, read the actual study. In the same time period the black and hispanic mortality rate has fallen in the US for those with at most a high school degree, and whites with similar educational backgrounds in multiple European nations have had a similar decline.
  7. @TangoMan
    If we order HS graduates by class rank across time, we'd see that college is capturing people from further down the rank ordering as we progress from the post-war era to the present. This means that those who are without a BA today are different (in terms of their placement on the HS class rank) then those who graduated in earlier eras.

    IQ is correlated to health outcomes. Smarter people have better economic prospects, wider career opportunities, and a more diligent attitude towards taking care of their health.

    If you look at the slopes of the 1960 to 1980 cohorts they're fairly similar, implying that younger cohorts are reaching mortality levels, at a given age, which are experienced by the other cohorts at progressively higher ages.

    I suspect that there is a confounding effect related to HS class rank/IQ at work here because we know that university enrollment has been expanding over time and the mean quality of student has been declining, so parsing by BA level of education is not capturing a completely valid metric unless we posit that the education value, apart from student intelligence, has a significant effect on people's lives.

    I was just going to say this. White death may not be happening quite the way claimed. There was an article in Slate yesterday on the subject but I did not finish it.

    Read More
  8. The elite indifference is rather telling, per an interview in The Atlantic with Angus Deaton, the only Congressman to contact him to discuss his study was the Muslim African-American Keith Ellison.

    https://www.theatlantic.com/amp/article/518880/

    Read More
    • Replies: @res
    Thanks for that. He also makes some good points about Oxycontin and rent seeking as factors in this.

    Steve, maybe link this in your post here?
    , @Anonymous
    The elite indifference is rather telling, ...


    Sometimes I wonder if this is all part of an effort to demonstrate some kind of equality between blacks and whites: if you take away "white privilege", whites end up in the same kinds of condition as we've seen blacks in over the years. The elites and Progressives seem to love this.

  9. Slightly OT.
    I used to think that “diversity”, much of it due to immigration, was the cause of “white death” until I realized that there’s very little diversity, for example, in West Virginia, and in the countryside, where, nonetheless the “white death” is mostly found.

    A possible explanation is that the cities, where the jobs are, have been taken over by “diversity” and are unwelcoming to whites moving in from the countryside.

    I remember when I first moved to my current place of residence that there was a large white working-class and in addition many whites moved in from the countryside for the work week and returned to the country for the weekend.

    No more. Those jobs are now taken by immigrants, no need for “immigrants” or visitors from the countryside.

    Thus the countryside festers in idleness and feels unwanted.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Autochthon
    Right! This is part of the business I wrote about internally displaced persons – one needn't move to be displaced; one may be displaced by being pre-empted from moving, as it were, or driven away even if they do initially relocate there.

    I'll again use myself as an example: I make very good money at a job many would envy, and I am desperately trying to order my affairs enough to go work as a retail clerk or some such in Middletown, because my circumstances currently (as they have done for years) are such that I may as well be living with Martians: soul-crushing anomie and loneliness; no society, vanishingly few friends, no romantic prospects, no connection to humanity at all because everyone else is an extra from Invasion of the Pod People or They Live.

    Get Out, indeed....
  10. @Robert Hume
    The initial mortality rate declines steadily, perhaps due to improved medical care, until the 1980 cohort when it jumps upward. This is perhaps one of the most disturbing results.

    One cause might be neglect by liberated or drug-afflicted mothers and fathers. What is the age of these initial points?

    I wasn’t thinking very clearly this early in the morning. The initial mortalities are changing to younger and younger ages for the younger cohorts, so naturally one would expect them to decline.

    Still, it seems significant that from 1970 to 1975 the mortality at age 25 increases from about 25 to 42.

    And possibly the same remarks about liberation and drugs apply.

    Read More
  11. @Diversity Heretic
    If this were any other demographic group, it would be cause for a declaration of national emergency. The trend lines on that graph are terrifying.

    My suggestion about another cause is the decline of religious faith that started in the 1960s. I may be projecting a bit, since I turned 18 in 1972 and my family stopped attending church in 1973, but if a person has no transcendental reason to live, and there's no reason to think the material circumstances will improve, death through despair becomes much more likely.

    In the short term, only a religious revival along the lines of The Great Awakening is likely to produce any change.

    My suggestion about another cause is the decline of religious faith

    And be ye not like those who forget God, and whom He hath therefore caused to forget their own selves.”

    -Qur’an 59:19

    Read More
    • Replies: @Diversity Heretic
    I dislike Islam in the West, but the Muslims are missing a bet by not adapting their religion to the United States. A rigorous "evangelical" Islam that left more room for Jesus and moved Mohammed aside a bit might actually have a chance of gaining traction among American working class whites. Not my choice, but more likely than a Protestant or Catholic revival in their present cucked form.
  12. @Opinionator
    if a person has no transcendental reason to live, and there’s no reason to think the material circumstances will improve, death through despair becomes much more likely.

    Is that the experience of men who have children?

    Aren’t children in and of themselves transcendental reasons to live?

    Read More
    • Agree: Desiderius, Ivy
    • Replies: @Opinionator
    No. Diversity Heretic clearly has in mind literal "religion" or "religious faith."
    , @dfordoom

    Aren’t children in and of themselves transcendental reasons to live?
     
    But if you don't have religious faith you're less likely to bother having kids. So it still comes down to a decline in religious faith.

    And in a society in which religious faith is increasingly rare the chances of your kids turning out well inevitably declines.
  13. Anon says:     Show CommentNext New Comment

    We live in a sick culture that promotes, often subliminally, all types of destructive behavior. I’m a millennial who probably watched too much (M)TV pre-puberty, and I remember, for instance, thinking at a very young age that heroin was cool. I later wondered … hmm, why did I think that? But, these days, being redpilled on the inner workings of many of these backward trends, I know exactly why — because it was promoted in movies and on television as something cool people did. Now I read about this heroin epidemic and think, hmm … perhaps I wasn’t the only person who internalized that message.

    Yes, it’s about jobs and industry leaving and America becoming a multicultural free trade zone, it’s about no fault divorce and the dissolution of the family unit, it’s about alcohol, it’s about legal drug dealing families like (((the Sackler’s))) promoting opiates prior to the influx of dirt cheap Afghan heroin the CIA now funnels through Baltimore and then into the rest of the country, but it’s also about the sick culture we live in, which has gotten progressively worse since the free love boomer youth were set free from their repressive, racist parents.

    A lot of savvy young people of the internet generation now know how this stuff is engineered, though — the information is in, we were born in it, and this is why so many young white men are way more to the right than Steve’s commentariate. We know why it’s happening and we know who’s doing it, and we don’t BS around it like a lot of boomers still do. There’s a reason why the same trends were present in Russia up until recently; because the same people who were in charge over there are now in charge over here. This is about people: who is running the show, in charge of crafting the youth culture, and able to promote their policies and agenda. Presently in the US, that is an alien elite who wants to see us destroyed. So we are dying…

    Read More
    • Replies: @Catholic Union Man
    I'm a little older than you but had a similar experience growing up. As far as being told from a young age that degeneracy and decadence are cool and if you don't buy into such things you are a square. The people who have the mega-phone want this, as well as the demographic displacement that follows and are frankly gleeful in talking about it when the topic comes up. Look, my neighborhood is the kind of blue-collar white ethnic neighborhood on the edge of a large east coast industrial city that has been ravaged by this stuff...think Charle's Murray's Fishtown. Back in the day you could get fired from one plant in the morning and go get a job somewhere else later on in the day...all Union jobs that could support a family. Good jobs in plants were a birthright handed down from Father to Son...College was for pussies. Believe me, I'm from that world. Bethlehem Steel and Sun Shipbuilding in Chester, Pa employed over 100,000 people in Eastern Pa alone. That's 100,000 families that had a decent shot at some level of prosperity all long gone. Both of those former industrial sites are now Casinos imposing a form of sin-self taxation on the descendants of the former workers I imagine. If that's not telling of how deep the rot is...
    , @another fred

    So we are dying…
     
    Do not mistake a crisis in a population for an extinction event.

    Half of Europe died from the Black Death and wars in the 14th century, but the survivors prospered and civilization bloomed.

    The population of the earth has grown beyond the limits imposed by our institutions and knowledge. People are floundering about for new institutions to try to cope, but stupidly, IMV. As and when they fail the population will plunge. It is most likely that most of the dying will be done in the crowded urban areas of the first and second worlds plus throughout the third.

    You have both bad and good luck to be born as the storm is rising. The survivors of the storm will have it good, the dead will be forgotten.
    , @Olorin
    "The Sixties" that you are thinking of when you think of a certain period of time is evidence that you too are colonized by an "alien elite."

    The 1960s in the place where I grew up--sounds like Catholic Union Man and I were practically neighbors, and maybe Jack D too--was not about "free love."

    It wasn't about drugs, or rock and roll.

    It was "deindustrialization." It was race riots.

    Soon after that it was the Wade Dump Fire and the explosion of the Corinthos and refinery fires.

    It was the Asbestos Plague.

    It was massive unemployment and forced busing and neighborhoods turned into slums.

    You are more colonized than you seem to know if you think "Woodstock" was anything other than a marketing invention designed to monetarize a large postwar youth demographic and twist it into thinking of itself as a shopping cohort.

    You are more colonized than you seem to know if you lump everyone of a certain age span into one word, then hold yourself over it.

    Who do you think invented the idea of "the Sixties" and "free love" and all? You think that was a chthonic invention of people born between 1945 and 1960?

    Why the hell do you believe it existed as anything other than a set of degenerate memes?

    How can you call yourself "more right" if you see your elders through (((those homogenizing filters))) which you claim to reject/be smarter than?

    Still, I'm glad younger people are able to talk in a way we didn't have in the Age of Punk. I mean the real punk, not that Clashy crap sold by (((Columbia))).

    http://www.instapunk.com/about.html

  14. @Dieter Kief

    "Much of 1960s liberalism begins with: “Assume everyone is above average in intelligence.”
     
    This story is still told. I just read it a few weeks ago in a decent German paper in this version: Our brain knows no limits! (The reason, that it was brought up in this very moment, might be the wish to integrate all this foreigners, that came here - and do much worse on the job market, than initially expected - by - ehem - experts (= experts in wishful thinking).

    Number two is a simple sentence by one of the most read "1968" ff. social psychologists and philosophers, Erich Fromm, to which Steve Sailer kind of refers to: People do have a "hunger for structure".
    Jonathan Franzen worked this old (originally hegelian) thought out in his novel Freedom: Freedom alone won't stand. It's always: Freedom & - - belonging, if you want to build a functioning society.

    Pink Floyd experienced the importance of the balance between liberation and the human longing for structure via the problems they encountered with Syd Barrett. Maybe that was the reason for their biggest artistic accomplishments, which came after the Barrett-experience (yes, they for sure were: Experienced - in oh so many ways...).

    Pink Floyd experienced the importance of the balance between liberation and the human longing for structure via the problems they encountered with Syd Barrett. Maybe that was the reason for their biggest artistic accomplishments, which came after the Barrett-experience (yes, they for sure were: Experienced – in oh so many ways…).

    I’m certainly a fan of Pink Floyd the musical experience, they were brilliant, but especially Roger Waters can be whiny, petulant and quite nasty. If they experienced much of a longing for structure, they were certainly ones to tear down the establishment of the day. Do you see much evidence they appreciated structure, other than musical structure? In The Wall, there was certainly a lot of pathologizing of concerns about white civilization as madness. How dare anyone be concerned about the “queens and the coons and the reds and the Jews”? Indeed, the only sane thing to do would be to turn over your country and make it a non-British Babel, surely Roger Waters must be quite happy sitting back and watching it all burn.

    Animals had a lot of Marxist class envy/hatred. Practically the whole album is that, put to music.

    Oh well. At least they produced some great music – music that has been embraced by the stoner crowd that unlike the Grateful Dead, does not require a pot consumption measured in x number of ounces per week to appreciate.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Autochthon
    I'm not so sure these interperations are the whole story. Animals, like Rush's "The Trees," is as much wry observation about unchanging human nature and its inevitable madness as it is any kind of advocacy for Marxism; it might even be seen to mock vain egalitarianism.

    Likewise with much of their work not masterminded by Waters – who was obsessed with hating The Man – and even much that was: arch but bemused cynicism about the suits in the music industry, the anguish of the human condition and the importance of striving despite the futility of our efforts for a Utopia, yearning for lost innocence and meaningful connections with our fellow man, the tragedy of war, the existential absurdity of modern consumerism – these strike me as themes of Animals, A Momentary Lapse of Reason, The Dark Side of the Moon, The Division Bell, Wish You Were Here, and even earlier pieces from Meddle and A Saucerful of Secrets (cf., "Fearless").

    The less mature earlier stuff is mostly interesting and talented musical jams with pretty silly or whimsical lyrics – there is no shame in that for a bunch of guys in their twenties.

    David Gilmour famously abstained from drugs his entire adult life after experiencing the horrors of what they did to Syd Barrett, so he was certainly aware of the need for discipline and sensibility. Roger Waters, albeit a musical genius, was always a bit whackadoo: inspired by an image he created of his communist, pacificist father encouraged by the trauma of that father's death in the war, flakily marrying serially (the guy's had four wives, the most recent of which he was married to for all of three years), never playing well with others and being a prima donna about The Final Cut and the band's split, etc..

    I guess my own take is that, yes, Waters seems like kind of a nihilisitic dick, but he wa only one fourth of the band. Mason, Gilmour, and Wright were suprisingly low-key and well-adjusted, as rock stars go, sort of like the guys in Genesis (excepting Gabriel, who was, unsurprisingly, that band's SJW grandstander...).

    (Barrett made himself into a vegetable so early in his career I dunno that he is here or there.)
  15. @Opinionator
    if a person has no transcendental reason to live, and there’s no reason to think the material circumstances will improve, death through despair becomes much more likely.

    Is that the experience of men who have children?

    Is that the experience of children?

    Read More
  16. @Hunsdon
    Aren't children in and of themselves transcendental reasons to live?

    No. Diversity Heretic clearly has in mind literal “religion” or “religious faith.”

    Read More
  17. If this were a crisis primarily among minorities, the issue would not be framed as a “carnage” or a tragedy, but rather as an issue of criminality, necessitating even more law enforcement and incarceration. Credit to Murray for calling it like he sees it – he very plainly slated in “Coming Apart” that the decline of the white working class is largely self inflicted. For example, he notes that the decline in male voluntary workforce participation started BEFORE 2008′s credit recession.

    What is the relationship between the white death and the rise of the alt right? Surely the phenomenon of the first fueled the other?

    Read More
    • Replies: @anon

    For example, he notes that the decline in male voluntary workforce participation started BEFORE 2008′s credit recession.
     
    off-shoring started well before 2008

    2008 was partly a result of off-shoring (as part of the slow decay of the domestic economy caused by the banking mafia increasing their leeching after the collapse of the Soviet Union).


    If this were a crisis primarily among minorities, the issue would not be framed as a “carnage” or a tragedy
     
    If this wasn't mostly white people it wouldn't have been covered up for 20 years and would be a bigger issue now - especially during the election - as this was a big factor.

    Credit to Murray for calling it like he sees it – he very plainly slated in “Coming Apart” that the decline of the white working class is largely self inflicted.
     
    If the media thought it was self-inflicted they wouldn't have covered it up. They'd have used it to attack white people.
  18. The democratization of drug culture probably dates to the early 1970s, with 1973 as the year the counterculture had clearly won in a rout.

    They say that much of the “60′s” actually happened in the early 70′s.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Stan Adams
    I know a guy who graduated from high school in '68. When he came home to visit his parents after his freshman year of college, he stopped by his old school to say hello to a favorite teacher. He said the difference was night and day - the rigid dress code had all but collapsed and the social milieu had been completely transformed.
    , @Roger Sweeny
    And they are so right.
  19. Where were they in ’62? Confident, prosperous, burning gasoline for practically free in an uncrowded country with a white super-majority, of whom even that super-majority was a super-majority of Anglo-Celts.

    I wonder if anybody involved in the making of that film has thought critically about the country going from 88% white to 60% white, and nearly doubling an already fully developed country’s population, in a single lifetime. And the future has already been born. Of the generation of Americans born in the present decade, whites will be a minority. The phenomenon is already manifesting in California, with its vestigial and hilariously geriatric white ruling class. Good luck getting them to pay taxes for all that debt the white people they have been taught to hate since birth have piled up.

    The tide could have been turned even in the 1980′s, but Republicans wanted to GRROW ARE ECONOMY and Dems wanted votes and more ethnic pets to fawn over.

    What happens when demographics flip so rapidly? Ask the Maronites in Lebanon, or the Alawites and Christians in Syria, or the Protestant Irish, or the Romans and Byzantines, or the Rhodesians or Afrikaaners.

    Thank God Trump is in office to get us some political and cultural breathing space, assuming whites don’t just march themselves into the cannibal pot voluntarily.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Desiderius

    assuming whites don’t just march themselves into the cannibal pot voluntarily
     
    It's not themselves they're marching, it's you.
    , @27 year old
    >Where were they in ’62? Confident, prosperous, burning gasoline for practically free in an uncrowded country with a white super-majority,

    I got my parents to stop complaining to me about how bad things are getting these days because I kept hitting them with "what were you doing in 1968?".

  20. Could this shocking white early death trend also reflect Charles Murray’s predicted genotypic-phenotypic “coming apart” between successful and unsuccessful sub-societies in the U.S. white population? That may be part of the answer. Murray predicted it in his book “Coming Apart.”

    If there is a Coming Apart, it should have a big genetic component, given the First Law of Behavioral Genetics (almost all behavioral traits have a large genetic component).

    Read More
  21. I’m sure it’s a coincidence, but these timelines coincidence pretty much perfectly with the shift from a WASP ruling class to a Jewish ruling class.

    Read More
  22. @Dieter Kief

    "Much of 1960s liberalism begins with: “Assume everyone is above average in intelligence.”
     
    This story is still told. I just read it a few weeks ago in a decent German paper in this version: Our brain knows no limits! (The reason, that it was brought up in this very moment, might be the wish to integrate all this foreigners, that came here - and do much worse on the job market, than initially expected - by - ehem - experts (= experts in wishful thinking).

    Number two is a simple sentence by one of the most read "1968" ff. social psychologists and philosophers, Erich Fromm, to which Steve Sailer kind of refers to: People do have a "hunger for structure".
    Jonathan Franzen worked this old (originally hegelian) thought out in his novel Freedom: Freedom alone won't stand. It's always: Freedom & - - belonging, if you want to build a functioning society.

    Pink Floyd experienced the importance of the balance between liberation and the human longing for structure via the problems they encountered with Syd Barrett. Maybe that was the reason for their biggest artistic accomplishments, which came after the Barrett-experience (yes, they for sure were: Experienced - in oh so many ways...).

    Experienced – in oh so many ways…

    From the original expert in early mortality from drugs, alcohol, and suicide:

    Read More
    • Replies: @Dieter Kief
    "Myths need loss. They thrive on it."

    (Paul Nelson in his brilliant essay "Bob Dylan").

    Doing drugs was our way to go to war.

    (Lou Reed)
  23. Tucker Carlson has covered this topic some on his show. In a recent show, he recited a remarkable statistic: that the present death rate due to heroin and opioid use (combined) is five times greater than the crack death-rate during the early 90s crack epidemic, and about seven times greater than the heroin death-rate during the early 70s heroin epidemic. (Yes, I don’t like the use of the word “epidemic” in this context, but it does have a certain analogous meaning to what is intended, and I can’t think of an alternative).

    Read More
    • Replies: @Maj. Kong
    The public, including most of us here and myself, has thrown in the towel on any kind of policing solution on drugs. The real dispute is between those wanting social Darwinism, and those wanting government largesse for rehab.

    A good place to start off any solution is to make the franchise regulated like firearms, addiction strips you of your 2A rights, it should also lead to disenfranchisement.
    , @anon

    and about seven times greater than the heroin death-rate during the early 70s heroin epidemic
     
    It would be interesting to see if the 70s heroin epidemic correlated in any way with black unemployment after the 1965 immigration act.
    , @Anon

    A heroin scourge in America’s housing projects coincided with a wave of heroin-addicted soldiers brought back from Vietnam, with a cost peaking between 1973 and 1975 at 1.5 overdose deaths per 100,000. The Nixon White House panicked. Curtis Mayfield wrote his soul ballad “Freddie’s Dead.” The crack epidemic of the mid- to late 1980s was worse, with a death rate reaching almost two per 100,000. George H. W. Bush declared war on drugs. The present opioid epidemic is killing 10.3 people per 100,000, and that is without the fentanyl-impacted statistics from 2016. In some states it is far worse: over thirty per 100,000 in New Hampshire and over forty in West Virginia.
     
    https://www.firstthings.com/article/2017/04/american-carnage
  24. Interesting. To add an anecdote to this, I recall that back in the 90s liver disease doctors were warning about the coming wave of Hepatitis C liver failure. It’s transmitted by IV drug use and they said that back in the 70s there were lots of people who briefly experimented with IV drugs who contracted it but then went on to reasonably normal lives. But Hep C takes 20-30 years of ticking along quietly before you show up in a doctor’s office with a trashed liver. They said they were just starting to see the leading edge of this wave and were worried that they’d be overwhelmed. This was also before an excellent treatment for Hep C became available so it’s possible things aren’t getting nearly as bad as they feared but I haven’t kept up with the medical science in that area.

    Sound like a familiar story?

    Read More
    • Replies: @res
    Worth noting that those effective Hep C treatments are extremely expensive (at least in the US):
    http://www.hepatitiscentral.com/news/hep-c-drugs-in-2016-more-combos-and-lower-cost/

    Unfortunately, all of the medications that constitute the standard of care in 2015 are prohibitively priced in the U.S. A three-month course of Hepatitis C treatment typically runs between $80,000 and $120,000.
    ...
    Analysts estimate Hepatitis C treatment in chosen locations with access to the generic versions range from $200 to $900.

     

    , @Lot
    The new "treatments" for Hep C do not cure it and are extremely expensive. Given the demographics of those who have it, the US Gov and states via Medicaid are paying for most of it.
  25. @The Anti-Gnostic
    Where were they in '62? Confident, prosperous, burning gasoline for practically free in an uncrowded country with a white super-majority, of whom even that super-majority was a super-majority of Anglo-Celts.

    I wonder if anybody involved in the making of that film has thought critically about the country going from 88% white to 60% white, and nearly doubling an already fully developed country's population, in a single lifetime. And the future has already been born. Of the generation of Americans born in the present decade, whites will be a minority. The phenomenon is already manifesting in California, with its vestigial and hilariously geriatric white ruling class. Good luck getting them to pay taxes for all that debt the white people they have been taught to hate since birth have piled up.

    The tide could have been turned even in the 1980's, but Republicans wanted to GRROW ARE ECONOMY and Dems wanted votes and more ethnic pets to fawn over.

    What happens when demographics flip so rapidly? Ask the Maronites in Lebanon, or the Alawites and Christians in Syria, or the Protestant Irish, or the Romans and Byzantines, or the Rhodesians or Afrikaaners.

    Thank God Trump is in office to get us some political and cultural breathing space, assuming whites don't just march themselves into the cannibal pot voluntarily.

    assuming whites don’t just march themselves into the cannibal pot voluntarily

    It’s not themselves they’re marching, it’s you.

    Read More
  26. @The Anti-Gnostic
    Where were they in '62? Confident, prosperous, burning gasoline for practically free in an uncrowded country with a white super-majority, of whom even that super-majority was a super-majority of Anglo-Celts.

    I wonder if anybody involved in the making of that film has thought critically about the country going from 88% white to 60% white, and nearly doubling an already fully developed country's population, in a single lifetime. And the future has already been born. Of the generation of Americans born in the present decade, whites will be a minority. The phenomenon is already manifesting in California, with its vestigial and hilariously geriatric white ruling class. Good luck getting them to pay taxes for all that debt the white people they have been taught to hate since birth have piled up.

    The tide could have been turned even in the 1980's, but Republicans wanted to GRROW ARE ECONOMY and Dems wanted votes and more ethnic pets to fawn over.

    What happens when demographics flip so rapidly? Ask the Maronites in Lebanon, or the Alawites and Christians in Syria, or the Protestant Irish, or the Romans and Byzantines, or the Rhodesians or Afrikaaners.

    Thank God Trump is in office to get us some political and cultural breathing space, assuming whites don't just march themselves into the cannibal pot voluntarily.

    >Where were they in ’62? Confident, prosperous, burning gasoline for practically free in an uncrowded country with a white super-majority,

    I got my parents to stop complaining to me about how bad things are getting these days because I kept hitting them with “what were you doing in 1968?”.

    Read More
    • Replies: @E. Rekshun
    I got my parents to stop complaining to me about how bad things are getting these days because I kept hitting them with “what were you doing in 1968?”.

    My 80-year old father has been doing the same complaining for over 30 years.

    I've been looking for something like this to shut him up, but what am I missing with the comeback - “what were you doing in 1968?” - other than Vietnam and inner-city black riots?

    , @Bleuteaux
    I seem to find an amazing level of disinterest in societal collapse among baby boomers, myself.
  27. anonymous says:     Show CommentNext New Comment

    Without some people noticing this and connecting the dots it would have gone unreported and therefore wouldn’t exist. It would all just be scattered anecdotal observations without the greater pattern emerging. Were this another ‘gap’ story involving minorities the media would be all over it. Now that it’s come out will there be a government program to address it or is that just something for minorities?

    Read More
  28. @Opinionator
    if a person has no transcendental reason to live, and there’s no reason to think the material circumstances will improve, death through despair becomes much more likely.

    Is that the experience of men who have children?

    I’d say it depends on the relationship with the man’s children. Estranged children may be yet one more source of despair.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Maj. Kong
    The crisis of the West cannot be resolved without the destruction of Feminism as an ideology.
  29. @Diversity Heretic
    If this were any other demographic group, it would be cause for a declaration of national emergency. The trend lines on that graph are terrifying.

    My suggestion about another cause is the decline of religious faith that started in the 1960s. I may be projecting a bit, since I turned 18 in 1972 and my family stopped attending church in 1973, but if a person has no transcendental reason to live, and there's no reason to think the material circumstances will improve, death through despair becomes much more likely.

    In the short term, only a religious revival along the lines of The Great Awakening is likely to produce any change.

    The drop in church attendance is likely strongly related to the breakup of white ethnic neighborhoods in large cities during the 50s, 60s, and 70s (see white flight. The flight was in response to Black migration from the Deep South to northern cities and the subsequent riots that occurred there. When the riots failed to rout out the more stubborn white urban ethnics, busing was introduced to provide the coup-de-grace.

    Note that the despair of the white ethnics was mentioned in the NYT twenty-years-ago.

    Read More
    • Replies: @The Anti-Gnostic
    Same with Atlanta, as the suburbs rolled out in all directions when activist federal judges ordered cross-district bussing. Suddenly, the priests found that they were mainly preaching to a few hippies and the homeless that straggled in. Sanctuaries that used to be open all day for prayerful reflection were shut and locked, and the new congregants diverted to the soup kitchen in the basement. A number of churches followed their former congregations out.

    Across the Eastern seaboard, in addition to the old, in-town cathedrals, you see universities surrounded by ghettoes in what used to be the centers of white culture and influence. Johns Hopkins is a famous example. I had a family member who went to medical school there and interned in the hospital's ER. He did not come out a liberal.

    There is another trend here of arid Protestantism finally beginning to burn out from its own contradictions.
    , @Diversity Heretic
    I don't dispute your post but, in fairness, we stopped attending church in lily-white Newton, Iowa.
    , @dfordoom

    The drop in church attendance is likely strongly related to the breakup of white ethnic neighborhoods in large cities during the 50s, 60s, and 70s
     
    Seems a bit unlikely. Religion has been in steady decline in the West for a couple of centuries. Much as I dislike diversity I don't think we can blame it for the decline of religious faith.

    We have to accept that the trashing of white European civilisation has been carried out predominantly by white Europeans.

    We also need to accept that the hierarchies of the major Churches played a large role in the destruction of Christianity, by adopting a policy of abject surrender to liberalism.

    We can destroy our own society very effectively without any help from outsiders.
  30. @27 year old
    >Where were they in ’62? Confident, prosperous, burning gasoline for practically free in an uncrowded country with a white super-majority,

    I got my parents to stop complaining to me about how bad things are getting these days because I kept hitting them with "what were you doing in 1968?".

    I got my parents to stop complaining to me about how bad things are getting these days because I kept hitting them with “what were you doing in 1968?”.

    My 80-year old father has been doing the same complaining for over 30 years.

    I’ve been looking for something like this to shut him up, but what am I missing with the comeback – “what were you doing in 1968?” – other than Vietnam and inner-city black riots?

    Read More
    • Replies: @E. Rekshun
    ^ oh well, that and the '68 election of Nixon and the assassinations of MLK and RFK.
    , @Stan Adams
    "Daddy, what did you do against the war?"

    Most here will get that reference, but for those who don't:
    http://media.iwm.org.uk/ciim5/358/648/large_000000.jpg
    , @27 year old
    It's just a general catchall for them being typical "radicals" back at that time, they were proud of the fact that they marched with "Dr King", they joined the naacp, burned bras and draft cards and smoked pot and went to woodstock and etc etc etc. They could have stopped this.
  31. @Robert Hume
    The initial mortality rate declines steadily, perhaps due to improved medical care, until the 1980 cohort when it jumps upward. This is perhaps one of the most disturbing results.

    One cause might be neglect by liberated or drug-afflicted mothers and fathers. What is the age of these initial points?

    I think you are misreading the graph. Age is the x axis (i.e. there is no decline, just things becoming much worse over time). Steve, not sure what happened, but the y axis label is missing. It should be “deaths per 100,000″.

    There are many stunning graphs in that paper. Check out the international comparisons to US whites! For example, Figure 1.3 shows all-cause mortality rates ages 45-54 and shows the uptrend starting in 1998 compared with steep drops internationally (but I think the birth cohort plot Steve shows is better at highlighting the underlying issue).

    This is depressingly real to me right now given recent events. Someone I know who could have been a case study for this died far too young yesterday after an extended period of poor health (e.g. on SSDI, frequently hospitalized).

    Read More
  32. @Coemgen
    The drop in church attendance is likely strongly related to the breakup of white ethnic neighborhoods in large cities during the 50s, 60s, and 70s (see white flight. The flight was in response to Black migration from the Deep South to northern cities and the subsequent riots that occurred there. When the riots failed to rout out the more stubborn white urban ethnics, busing was introduced to provide the coup-de-grace.

    Note that the despair of the white ethnics was mentioned in the NYT twenty-years-ago.

    Same with Atlanta, as the suburbs rolled out in all directions when activist federal judges ordered cross-district bussing. Suddenly, the priests found that they were mainly preaching to a few hippies and the homeless that straggled in. Sanctuaries that used to be open all day for prayerful reflection were shut and locked, and the new congregants diverted to the soup kitchen in the basement. A number of churches followed their former congregations out.

    Across the Eastern seaboard, in addition to the old, in-town cathedrals, you see universities surrounded by ghettoes in what used to be the centers of white culture and influence. Johns Hopkins is a famous example. I had a family member who went to medical school there and interned in the hospital’s ER. He did not come out a liberal.

    There is another trend here of arid Protestantism finally beginning to burn out from its own contradictions.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Bleuteaux
    Pretty much every Jesuit university campus in the country transformed this way.
  33. @E. Rekshun
    I got my parents to stop complaining to me about how bad things are getting these days because I kept hitting them with “what were you doing in 1968?”.

    My 80-year old father has been doing the same complaining for over 30 years.

    I've been looking for something like this to shut him up, but what am I missing with the comeback - “what were you doing in 1968?” - other than Vietnam and inner-city black riots?

    ^ oh well, that and the ’68 election of Nixon and the assassinations of MLK and RFK.

    Read More
  34. Always informative to see what POC and SJWs think about working class Whites:

    “Wow! You’re really going to sit on your unearned perch of white privilege and tell us, US?, people of color that WE? are standing above them and “sneering down” at them. These people are the white racist who voted in a white racist as president. And you want us to look upon our oppressors as victims? And seriously you show your own arrogant racism with your whitesplaining ‘splaining?” comment. You’ve got some serious nerve trying to use our own terms against us in a blind bid to have us feel sorry for the vile racist oppressors of this so called society.”

    “I for one have little sympathy for these despairing whites. If they can’t compete against people of color when everything has been rigged in their favor, then there’s really no help for them. Trump and his G(r)OPers will do little to elevate their lot. If anything, these poor whites will be hired to dig grave pits and assemble their own coffins.”

    “I don’t see much profit in planning on them ever voting democrat. However, there can be progress in forcing them to eat the sh[**] they’ve been feeding other people for so long.”

    “Is it bad news or good news? Middle aged undereducated white Americans are Donald Trump’s base. They brought us this clown and ensuing insanity.
    It’s bad news they are dying off if you happen to love one of them or are one of them. But, it’s the welcome news of hope that without that demographic dwindling and eventually gone, our chances of another Trump are significantly less.
    Now that’s good news.”

    “Sorry, not sorry. These people are not worthy of any sympathy. They have run around for decades bitching about poor minorities not “working hard enough,” or that their situation is “their own fault.” Well guess what? It’s not so great when it’s you now, is it? Bunch of deplorables, and if they die quicker than the rest of us that just means the country will be better off in the long run.”

    Read More
    • Replies: @Maj. Kong
    Some communist said:

    “Sorry, not sorry. These people are not worthy of any sympathy. They have run around for decades bitching about poor minorities not “working hard enough,” or that their situation is “their own fault.” Well guess what? It’s not so great when it’s you now, is it? Bunch of deplorables, and if they die quicker than the rest of us that just means the country will be better off in the long run.”
     
    Makes little sense, when you consider that 30 years ago this country was far whiter than it is now. While the slight might make sense when applied to blacks, it doesn't work for anyone else. Our problem is not just one of "minorities not working hard enough", (which was never a complaint, rather that they don't work at all), it is of being displaced through affirmative action at every level, which makes any affordable family formation increasingly difficult.
    , @Thea
    Race is a social construct except for the white race which is inherently evil and must be made to pay.
  35. @TangoMan
    If we order HS graduates by class rank across time, we'd see that college is capturing people from further down the rank ordering as we progress from the post-war era to the present. This means that those who are without a BA today are different (in terms of their placement on the HS class rank) then those who graduated in earlier eras.

    IQ is correlated to health outcomes. Smarter people have better economic prospects, wider career opportunities, and a more diligent attitude towards taking care of their health.

    If you look at the slopes of the 1960 to 1980 cohorts they're fairly similar, implying that younger cohorts are reaching mortality levels, at a given age, which are experienced by the other cohorts at progressively higher ages.

    I suspect that there is a confounding effect related to HS class rank/IQ at work here because we know that university enrollment has been expanding over time and the mean quality of student has been declining, so parsing by BA level of education is not capturing a completely valid metric unless we posit that the education value, apart from student intelligence, has a significant effect on people's lives.

    That’s a good point. The question is the effect size. I don’t think this is nearly enough to explain the plot Steve presented. It might be possible to check this by looking at the results for all three educational groups over time. This excerpt from page 7 of the paper is very relevant:

    We shall be much concerned with education, and work with three educational groups, those with a high school degree or less, those with some college but no BA, and those with a BA or more. Among white non-Hispanics ages 45-54, the share of each education group in the population has seen little change since the early 1990s, with those with no more than a high school degree comprising approximately 40 percent, some college (30 percent) and a BA or more (30 percent). It is important not to focus on those with less than a high school degree, a group that has grown markedly smaller over time, and is likely to be increasingly negatively selected on health.

    In particular note the second sentence which indicates the factor you describe has not been in play for ~25 years (and indicates the researchers have thought about this issue!). It would also be interesting to compare less than HS diploma in older cohorts with HS diploma in newer cohorts.

    There is also a geographic component (from page 13):

    The epidemic spread from the southwest, where it was centered in 2000, first to Appalachia, Florida and the west coast by the mid-2000s, and is now country-wide (Figure 1.6). This increase was seen at every level of residential urbanization in the US (Appendix Figure 2); it is neither an urban nor a rural epidemic, rather both.

    I’m curious why it would start in the SW?!

    Read More
    • Replies: @Desiderius
    That's where the invasion started.
    , @anon

    I’m curious why it would start in the SW?!
     
    The cause of this is un- and under- employment (aka mass immigration and off-shoring) so if off-shoring was more or less the same level across the country and mass immigration was highest in the SW then add the two factors together in each region and you get the pattern.
  36. @Ali Choudhury
    The elite indifference is rather telling, per an interview in The Atlantic with Angus Deaton, the only Congressman to contact him to discuss his study was the Muslim African-American Keith Ellison.

    https://www.theatlantic.com/amp/article/518880/

    Thanks for that. He also makes some good points about Oxycontin and rent seeking as factors in this.

    Steve, maybe link this in your post here?

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  37. 1970 marked a change in US economic fortunes. Around that time the shares of profitability going to capital and to labor began their divergence. Nixon closed the gold window at the end of the 1960s after LBJ’s disastrous guns and butter policy, and then took the US off the gold standard in 1971. Those events led to our current state with declining lifespans, lower average income growth and overall dissatisfaction with the status quo. No wonder so many people voted for Trump, as they saw no future with the opposition.

    Read More
  38. They believe in Social Darwinism, but only among White folks.

    They are deliberately murdering us and calling it natural selection.

    Read More
  39. @Polynices
    Interesting. To add an anecdote to this, I recall that back in the 90s liver disease doctors were warning about the coming wave of Hepatitis C liver failure. It's transmitted by IV drug use and they said that back in the 70s there were lots of people who briefly experimented with IV drugs who contracted it but then went on to reasonably normal lives. But Hep C takes 20-30 years of ticking along quietly before you show up in a doctor's office with a trashed liver. They said they were just starting to see the leading edge of this wave and were worried that they'd be overwhelmed. This was also before an excellent treatment for Hep C became available so it's possible things aren't getting nearly as bad as they feared but I haven't kept up with the medical science in that area.

    Sound like a familiar story?

    Worth noting that those effective Hep C treatments are extremely expensive (at least in the US):

    http://www.hepatitiscentral.com/news/hep-c-drugs-in-2016-more-combos-and-lower-cost/

    Unfortunately, all of the medications that constitute the standard of care in 2015 are prohibitively priced in the U.S. A three-month course of Hepatitis C treatment typically runs between $80,000 and $120,000.

    Analysts estimate Hepatitis C treatment in chosen locations with access to the generic versions range from $200 to $900.

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  40. @Mike Zwick

    The democratization of drug culture probably dates to the early 1970s, with 1973 as the year the counterculture had clearly won in a rout.

     

    They say that much of the "60's" actually happened in the early 70's.

    I know a guy who graduated from high school in ’68. When he came home to visit his parents after his freshman year of college, he stopped by his old school to say hello to a favorite teacher. He said the difference was night and day – the rigid dress code had all but collapsed and the social milieu had been completely transformed.

    Read More
    • Replies: @anonguy

    I know a guy who graduated from high school in ’68. When he came home to visit his parents after his freshman year of college, he stopped by his old school to say hello to a favorite teacher. He said the difference was night and day – the rigid dress code had all but collapsed and the social milieu had been completely transformed.
     
    I was an elementary school kid back then, but I remember we would see the older kids hanging out. The rebels had always been greaser types, black leather jackets, pomades, the other ones conventionally attired

    Then, like overnight, all the older kids, rebels and all, all of a sudden had long hair, army coats, ragged bell bottom jeans.

    I remember being very astonished at this seemingly instant and comprehensive transition, I was in fourth grade I believe and that would have been 1969.
  41. @E. Rekshun
    I got my parents to stop complaining to me about how bad things are getting these days because I kept hitting them with “what were you doing in 1968?”.

    My 80-year old father has been doing the same complaining for over 30 years.

    I've been looking for something like this to shut him up, but what am I missing with the comeback - “what were you doing in 1968?” - other than Vietnam and inner-city black riots?

    “Daddy, what did you do against the war?”

    Most here will get that reference, but for those who don’t:

    http://media.iwm.org.uk/ciim5/358/648/large_000000.jpg

    Read More
  42. Hank Williams Jr concert. While hank sings All my rowdy friends have settled down…or died..the crowd appears to consist of future Trump supporters.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Desiderius
    Hank Sr. was a canary in this particular coal mine (the thread topic).

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OgOZmz_IsUM
  43. I disagree with the notion that it was an accident of circumstance that Deaton & Case’s study got published and received mainstream attention. The reason it got attention is because every now and then, the powers-that-be be just can’t resist the urge to gloat.

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  44. The ’60s were, in reality, the Smart Liberation era. Much of 1960s liberalism begins with: “Assume everyone is above average in intelligence.” This belief can make life more convenient for people who actually are above average in intelligence.

    Myron Magnet said something similar in 1993′s The Dream and the Nightmare: The Sixties’ Legacy to the Underclass. A good book.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Jack D
    We talked about this on another thread, when the subject of A Serious Man came up. Guys like the Coen Brothers were smart enough and self controlled enough that they could go to Hebrew school stoned and still end up as rich and famous movie directors, but the average Joe might not know where to draw the line and might end up losing his job for coming in under the influence or might end up an addict. In the old regime, we just had a hard and fast rule - marijuana is illegal, period. Nobody can have it. This was not pleasing to guys like the Coen Brothers - they said , "that's not fair to me - I can handle drugs in a way that will not ruin my life and I get a lot of pleasure from them." So for every two 140IQ guys like the Coen Brothers maybe there are 10 or 20 homeless people now who couldn't handle that much "freedom".
  45. @Mike Zwick

    The democratization of drug culture probably dates to the early 1970s, with 1973 as the year the counterculture had clearly won in a rout.

     

    They say that much of the "60's" actually happened in the early 70's.

    And they are so right.

    Read More
  46. @Mr. Anon
    Tucker Carlson has covered this topic some on his show. In a recent show, he recited a remarkable statistic: that the present death rate due to heroin and opioid use (combined) is five times greater than the crack death-rate during the early 90s crack epidemic, and about seven times greater than the heroin death-rate during the early 70s heroin epidemic. (Yes, I don't like the use of the word "epidemic" in this context, but it does have a certain analogous meaning to what is intended, and I can't think of an alternative).

    The public, including most of us here and myself, has thrown in the towel on any kind of policing solution on drugs. The real dispute is between those wanting social Darwinism, and those wanting government largesse for rehab.

    A good place to start off any solution is to make the franchise regulated like firearms, addiction strips you of your 2A rights, it should also lead to disenfranchisement.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Autochthon
    Swell: More bloated bureaucracy and sinecures for affirmatively-acted Negroes in the trenches and busybodies from Vasser in administration to determine who is and is not addicted, determine when and if rehabilitation has been achieved, monitor for relapses....
  47. @syonredux
    Always informative to see what POC and SJWs think about working class Whites:

    “Wow! You’re really going to sit on your unearned perch of white privilege and tell us, US?, people of color that WE? are standing above them and “sneering down” at them. These people are the white racist who voted in a white racist as president. And you want us to look upon our oppressors as victims? And seriously you show your own arrogant racism with your whitesplaining ‘splaining?” comment. You’ve got some serious nerve trying to use our own terms against us in a blind bid to have us feel sorry for the vile racist oppressors of this so called society.”
     

    “I for one have little sympathy for these despairing whites. If they can’t compete against people of color when everything has been rigged in their favor, then there’s really no help for them. Trump and his G(r)OPers will do little to elevate their lot. If anything, these poor whites will be hired to dig grave pits and assemble their own coffins.”
     

    “I don’t see much profit in planning on them ever voting democrat. However, there can be progress in forcing them to eat the sh[**] they’ve been feeding other people for so long.”
     

    “Is it bad news or good news? Middle aged undereducated white Americans are Donald Trump’s base. They brought us this clown and ensuing insanity.
    It’s bad news they are dying off if you happen to love one of them or are one of them. But, it’s the welcome news of hope that without that demographic dwindling and eventually gone, our chances of another Trump are significantly less.
    Now that’s good news.”
     

    “Sorry, not sorry. These people are not worthy of any sympathy. They have run around for decades bitching about poor minorities not “working hard enough,” or that their situation is “their own fault.” Well guess what? It’s not so great when it’s you now, is it? Bunch of deplorables, and if they die quicker than the rest of us that just means the country will be better off in the long run.”

     

    Some communist said:

    “Sorry, not sorry. These people are not worthy of any sympathy. They have run around for decades bitching about poor minorities not “working hard enough,” or that their situation is “their own fault.” Well guess what? It’s not so great when it’s you now, is it? Bunch of deplorables, and if they die quicker than the rest of us that just means the country will be better off in the long run.”

    Makes little sense, when you consider that 30 years ago this country was far whiter than it is now. While the slight might make sense when applied to blacks, it doesn’t work for anyone else. Our problem is not just one of “minorities not working hard enough”, (which was never a complaint, rather that they don’t work at all), it is of being displaced through affirmative action at every level, which makes any affordable family formation increasingly difficult.

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  48. @Diversity Heretic
    I'd say it depends on the relationship with the man's children. Estranged children may be yet one more source of despair.

    The crisis of the West cannot be resolved without the destruction of Feminism as an ideology.

    Read More
    • Agree: Travis, dfordoom
    • Replies: @Diversity Heretic
    Agreed--take a look at Chateau Heartiste's post on single women's voting patterns. But you'll have to work against some trends that have a lot of momentum. There was a podcast by a guy called Red Pill Germany. He talked about several women he knew who were hitting the Wall and were unmarried. In no case had they been promiscuous party girls riding the Alpha cock carousel, but rather they had focused intensely on their careers (one was a ballerina, for example) and they now found a dearth of suitable mates. I found the podcast particularly well done because he illustrated it with stock photos of "strong, confident career women" in skirted suits with great legs (probably 23-year old models). That is the ideal that is being presented to young women today. That has to change. In some resects Marissa Mayers (the CEO of Yahoo, I think that's the right spelling) is a more dangerous role model than Miley Cyrus. Almost any young woman can see the decadence of Miley Cyrus, but Marissa Mayers is a more alluring temptation. And a lot of young women are being told by even their mothers that they need a career because they cannot depend on a man to take care of them.
  49. @Anon
    We live in a sick culture that promotes, often subliminally, all types of destructive behavior. I'm a millennial who probably watched too much (M)TV pre-puberty, and I remember, for instance, thinking at a very young age that heroin was cool. I later wondered ... hmm, why did I think that? But, these days, being redpilled on the inner workings of many of these backward trends, I know exactly why -- because it was promoted in movies and on television as something cool people did. Now I read about this heroin epidemic and think, hmm ... perhaps I wasn't the only person who internalized that message.

    Yes, it's about jobs and industry leaving and America becoming a multicultural free trade zone, it's about no fault divorce and the dissolution of the family unit, it's about alcohol, it's about legal drug dealing families like (((the Sackler's))) promoting opiates prior to the influx of dirt cheap Afghan heroin the CIA now funnels through Baltimore and then into the rest of the country, but it's also about the sick culture we live in, which has gotten progressively worse since the free love boomer youth were set free from their repressive, racist parents.

    A lot of savvy young people of the internet generation now know how this stuff is engineered, though -- the information is in, we were born in it, and this is why so many young white men are way more to the right than Steve's commentariate. We know why it's happening and we know who's doing it, and we don't BS around it like a lot of boomers still do. There's a reason why the same trends were present in Russia up until recently; because the same people who were in charge over there are now in charge over here. This is about people: who is running the show, in charge of crafting the youth culture, and able to promote their policies and agenda. Presently in the US, that is an alien elite who wants to see us destroyed. So we are dying...

    I’m a little older than you but had a similar experience growing up. As far as being told from a young age that degeneracy and decadence are cool and if you don’t buy into such things you are a square. The people who have the mega-phone want this, as well as the demographic displacement that follows and are frankly gleeful in talking about it when the topic comes up. Look, my neighborhood is the kind of blue-collar white ethnic neighborhood on the edge of a large east coast industrial city that has been ravaged by this stuff…think Charle’s Murray’s Fishtown. Back in the day you could get fired from one plant in the morning and go get a job somewhere else later on in the day…all Union jobs that could support a family. Good jobs in plants were a birthright handed down from Father to Son…College was for pussies. Believe me, I’m from that world. Bethlehem Steel and Sun Shipbuilding in Chester, Pa employed over 100,000 people in Eastern Pa alone. That’s 100,000 families that had a decent shot at some level of prosperity all long gone. Both of those former industrial sites are now Casinos imposing a form of sin-self taxation on the descendants of the former workers I imagine. If that’s not telling of how deep the rot is…

    Read More
    • Replies: @Jack D
    It's true that those jobs paid relatively well, but I really wouldn't want my kid to go to work in either place. The shipyards were full of asbestos and many former shipyard workers now have asbestos related diseases that have crippled them and will kill them. Steel mills were also hot, dirty and dangerous places that literally look like a vision of hell.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8vbNkBOGMwg

    Now the guys did this every day and knew what they were doing, so they took it very nonchalantly (they are sitting 5 feet from molten steel pouring out at 2500 degrees F but look like they're sitting on a park bench) but like the guys who work the high steel they are really only a slip away from death.
    , @Travis
    my grandfather worked as a welder at Sun Shipbuilding in Chester. Hard to believe how much Chester has fallen , worse than Fishtown. It must have become mostly Black 40 years ago, the jobs were gone from Chester by 1980.
  50. As to Pink Floyd, teenagers I knew in the mid-80′s were happily doing all manner of substances while listening to their music or watching their movie. In fact, was their selling point about anything other than drugs?

    Are there bands who are the equivalent of Pink Floyd now? I have no idea how the rebellious youth currently view the drug/music/party scene. do they still sit in someone’s garage, get stoned, and listen to loud, brain-searing rock n roll?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Opinionator
    Is it healthy for youths to listen to Pink Floyd music?
  51. The drug culture was rampant in the early 80′s in my junior high…I recall seeing Fast Times at Ridgemont high at age 13 in 1982 , and renting Cheek and Chong videos. Athough I was considered a jock and was captain of the Jr. High football team I started smoking pot in 1983 before I turned 14…about 30% of my classmates were getting high at the public school I attended, which is one reason my parents sent me to a private prep high school..2 closes friends , lived on my block in Upper Darby, PA, passed away soon after turning 40..one from heroin, one from liver disease, my best friend also got Hep C but was able to kick his addiction 10 years ago. My wife is amazed that so many of my childhood friends have died, and 2 of my cousins from heroin.

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  52. @TangoMan
    If we order HS graduates by class rank across time, we'd see that college is capturing people from further down the rank ordering as we progress from the post-war era to the present. This means that those who are without a BA today are different (in terms of their placement on the HS class rank) then those who graduated in earlier eras.

    IQ is correlated to health outcomes. Smarter people have better economic prospects, wider career opportunities, and a more diligent attitude towards taking care of their health.

    If you look at the slopes of the 1960 to 1980 cohorts they're fairly similar, implying that younger cohorts are reaching mortality levels, at a given age, which are experienced by the other cohorts at progressively higher ages.

    I suspect that there is a confounding effect related to HS class rank/IQ at work here because we know that university enrollment has been expanding over time and the mean quality of student has been declining, so parsing by BA level of education is not capturing a completely valid metric unless we posit that the education value, apart from student intelligence, has a significant effect on people's lives.

    Another confounding factor: just what do they consider a death from alcohol? Unlike suicide, that’s not so clearcut. Do all the data points in that graph reflect a consistent definition of “death due to alcohol abuse”?

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  53. @res
    That's a good point. The question is the effect size. I don't think this is nearly enough to explain the plot Steve presented. It might be possible to check this by looking at the results for all three educational groups over time. This excerpt from page 7 of the paper is very relevant:

    We shall be much concerned with education, and work with three educational groups, those with a high school degree or less, those with some college but no BA, and those with a BA or more. Among white non-Hispanics ages 45-54, the share of each education group in the population has seen little change since the early 1990s, with those with no more than a high school degree comprising approximately 40 percent, some college (30 percent) and a BA or more (30 percent). It is important not to focus on those with less than a high school degree, a group that has grown markedly smaller over time, and is likely to be increasingly negatively selected on health.
     
    In particular note the second sentence which indicates the factor you describe has not been in play for ~25 years (and indicates the researchers have thought about this issue!). It would also be interesting to compare less than HS diploma in older cohorts with HS diploma in newer cohorts.

    There is also a geographic component (from page 13):

    The epidemic spread from the southwest, where it was centered in 2000, first to Appalachia, Florida and the west coast by the mid-2000s, and is now country-wide (Figure 1.6). This increase was seen at every level of residential urbanization in the US (Appendix Figure 2); it is neither an urban nor a rural epidemic, rather both.
     
    I'm curious why it would start in the SW?!

    That’s where the invasion started.

    Read More
    • Replies: @res
    True (and good point). But was that the primary factor all around? The next stops (e.g. Appalachia) don't match up so well with that hypothesis.
  54. @Anon
    We live in a sick culture that promotes, often subliminally, all types of destructive behavior. I'm a millennial who probably watched too much (M)TV pre-puberty, and I remember, for instance, thinking at a very young age that heroin was cool. I later wondered ... hmm, why did I think that? But, these days, being redpilled on the inner workings of many of these backward trends, I know exactly why -- because it was promoted in movies and on television as something cool people did. Now I read about this heroin epidemic and think, hmm ... perhaps I wasn't the only person who internalized that message.

    Yes, it's about jobs and industry leaving and America becoming a multicultural free trade zone, it's about no fault divorce and the dissolution of the family unit, it's about alcohol, it's about legal drug dealing families like (((the Sackler's))) promoting opiates prior to the influx of dirt cheap Afghan heroin the CIA now funnels through Baltimore and then into the rest of the country, but it's also about the sick culture we live in, which has gotten progressively worse since the free love boomer youth were set free from their repressive, racist parents.

    A lot of savvy young people of the internet generation now know how this stuff is engineered, though -- the information is in, we were born in it, and this is why so many young white men are way more to the right than Steve's commentariate. We know why it's happening and we know who's doing it, and we don't BS around it like a lot of boomers still do. There's a reason why the same trends were present in Russia up until recently; because the same people who were in charge over there are now in charge over here. This is about people: who is running the show, in charge of crafting the youth culture, and able to promote their policies and agenda. Presently in the US, that is an alien elite who wants to see us destroyed. So we are dying...

    So we are dying…

    Do not mistake a crisis in a population for an extinction event.

    Half of Europe died from the Black Death and wars in the 14th century, but the survivors prospered and civilization bloomed.

    The population of the earth has grown beyond the limits imposed by our institutions and knowledge. People are floundering about for new institutions to try to cope, but stupidly, IMV. As and when they fail the population will plunge. It is most likely that most of the dying will be done in the crowded urban areas of the first and second worlds plus throughout the third.

    You have both bad and good luck to be born as the storm is rising. The survivors of the storm will have it good, the dead will be forgotten.

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    • Replies: @Autochthon

    The nonwhite population the earth has grown beyond the limits imposed by our institutions and knowledge.
     
    Overpopulation in Africa, Asia, and South America is no answer to the genetic suicide of the one race who give a damn about ecology.
  55. @syonredux
    Always informative to see what POC and SJWs think about working class Whites:

    “Wow! You’re really going to sit on your unearned perch of white privilege and tell us, US?, people of color that WE? are standing above them and “sneering down” at them. These people are the white racist who voted in a white racist as president. And you want us to look upon our oppressors as victims? And seriously you show your own arrogant racism with your whitesplaining ‘splaining?” comment. You’ve got some serious nerve trying to use our own terms against us in a blind bid to have us feel sorry for the vile racist oppressors of this so called society.”
     

    “I for one have little sympathy for these despairing whites. If they can’t compete against people of color when everything has been rigged in their favor, then there’s really no help for them. Trump and his G(r)OPers will do little to elevate their lot. If anything, these poor whites will be hired to dig grave pits and assemble their own coffins.”
     

    “I don’t see much profit in planning on them ever voting democrat. However, there can be progress in forcing them to eat the sh[**] they’ve been feeding other people for so long.”
     

    “Is it bad news or good news? Middle aged undereducated white Americans are Donald Trump’s base. They brought us this clown and ensuing insanity.
    It’s bad news they are dying off if you happen to love one of them or are one of them. But, it’s the welcome news of hope that without that demographic dwindling and eventually gone, our chances of another Trump are significantly less.
    Now that’s good news.”
     

    “Sorry, not sorry. These people are not worthy of any sympathy. They have run around for decades bitching about poor minorities not “working hard enough,” or that their situation is “their own fault.” Well guess what? It’s not so great when it’s you now, is it? Bunch of deplorables, and if they die quicker than the rest of us that just means the country will be better off in the long run.”

     

    Race is a social construct except for the white race which is inherently evil and must be made to pay.

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  56. @27 year old
    >Where were they in ’62? Confident, prosperous, burning gasoline for practically free in an uncrowded country with a white super-majority,

    I got my parents to stop complaining to me about how bad things are getting these days because I kept hitting them with "what were you doing in 1968?".

    I seem to find an amazing level of disinterest in societal collapse among baby boomers, myself.

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  57. @Coemgen
    The drop in church attendance is likely strongly related to the breakup of white ethnic neighborhoods in large cities during the 50s, 60s, and 70s (see white flight. The flight was in response to Black migration from the Deep South to northern cities and the subsequent riots that occurred there. When the riots failed to rout out the more stubborn white urban ethnics, busing was introduced to provide the coup-de-grace.

    Note that the despair of the white ethnics was mentioned in the NYT twenty-years-ago.

    I don’t dispute your post but, in fairness, we stopped attending church in lily-white Newton, Iowa.

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  58. @The Anti-Gnostic
    Same with Atlanta, as the suburbs rolled out in all directions when activist federal judges ordered cross-district bussing. Suddenly, the priests found that they were mainly preaching to a few hippies and the homeless that straggled in. Sanctuaries that used to be open all day for prayerful reflection were shut and locked, and the new congregants diverted to the soup kitchen in the basement. A number of churches followed their former congregations out.

    Across the Eastern seaboard, in addition to the old, in-town cathedrals, you see universities surrounded by ghettoes in what used to be the centers of white culture and influence. Johns Hopkins is a famous example. I had a family member who went to medical school there and interned in the hospital's ER. He did not come out a liberal.

    There is another trend here of arid Protestantism finally beginning to burn out from its own contradictions.

    Pretty much every Jesuit university campus in the country transformed this way.

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  59. @Polynices
    Interesting. To add an anecdote to this, I recall that back in the 90s liver disease doctors were warning about the coming wave of Hepatitis C liver failure. It's transmitted by IV drug use and they said that back in the 70s there were lots of people who briefly experimented with IV drugs who contracted it but then went on to reasonably normal lives. But Hep C takes 20-30 years of ticking along quietly before you show up in a doctor's office with a trashed liver. They said they were just starting to see the leading edge of this wave and were worried that they'd be overwhelmed. This was also before an excellent treatment for Hep C became available so it's possible things aren't getting nearly as bad as they feared but I haven't kept up with the medical science in that area.

    Sound like a familiar story?

    The new “treatments” for Hep C do not cure it and are extremely expensive. Given the demographics of those who have it, the US Gov and states via Medicaid are paying for most of it.

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    • Replies: @Johann Ricke

    The new “treatments” for Hep C do not cure it and are extremely expensive. Given the demographics of those who have it, the US Gov and states via Medicaid are paying for most of it.
     
    AFAIK, they do cure it. That's why it's so expensive. Gilead only gets to sell the drug once to a given patient. That's why its sales numbers for this drug are crashing. The drug is more effective than they expected it to be.
  60. @TangoMan
    If we order HS graduates by class rank across time, we'd see that college is capturing people from further down the rank ordering as we progress from the post-war era to the present. This means that those who are without a BA today are different (in terms of their placement on the HS class rank) then those who graduated in earlier eras.

    IQ is correlated to health outcomes. Smarter people have better economic prospects, wider career opportunities, and a more diligent attitude towards taking care of their health.

    If you look at the slopes of the 1960 to 1980 cohorts they're fairly similar, implying that younger cohorts are reaching mortality levels, at a given age, which are experienced by the other cohorts at progressively higher ages.

    I suspect that there is a confounding effect related to HS class rank/IQ at work here because we know that university enrollment has been expanding over time and the mean quality of student has been declining, so parsing by BA level of education is not capturing a completely valid metric unless we posit that the education value, apart from student intelligence, has a significant effect on people's lives.

    Dude, this isn’t that hard to figure out.
    First of all, we’re not talking about a difference in life expectancy between the college educated and those without. This is about skyrocketing mortality rates for HS educated whites. That shouldn’t ever be happening in a 1st world nation for any demographic group. Anyone who isn’t blind or malicious can see that the white American working class is in a state of economic, social and spiritual meltdown due to trends and deliberate policy decisions that have been transparently catastrophic for decades. Also, read the actual study. In the same time period the black and hispanic mortality rate has fallen in the US for those with at most a high school degree, and whites with similar educational backgrounds in multiple European nations have had a similar decline.

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    • Replies: @anon

    In the same time period the black and hispanic mortality rate has fallen in the US for those with at most a high school degree, and whites with similar educational backgrounds in multiple European nations have had a similar decline.
     
    Yes.

    Any attempt to explain this has to cover why it is only effecting white blue collar and not black/brown.

    (Although it probably is effecting them in some areas i.e. black people from the northern migration who used to work in the off-shored factories are probably the same but their percentage of the total black population would be lower so may be being masked.)
  61. The white share of the prison and jail population is also increasing rapidly, even as the white share of crime-prone young men is fast falling.

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  62. In the early 1990′s, my family attended a very liberal church with a substantial African-American component to the congregation, along with a number of lower middle class white people. It became clear to me that blacks, whatever you thought about their IQs or culture, were the canaries in the coal mine of our culture. They were chronically unemployed, mostly in single-mother families, much more likely to use and be addicted to drugs, and were incarcerated more often and for a longer period. They complained about how the business world was only interested in what they called the Talented Tenth, namely, the kids who were bright enough to succeed in some form of college.

    Well, guess what? I watched lower class whites fall slowly into the same circumstances and they now suffer from all the same problems. Unemployment or poverty-level employment, in prison, on drugs, broken families and the majority culture tosses them on the scrap heap. No wonder they’re depressed. Just like black people. In addition, they bear the burden of white guilt, with none of the advantages, like higher intelligence and the access it provides to a better life.

    I think Donald Trump figured this out, and if you’ve ever seen the map of counties he won in the last election, he spoke to them about the two issues that have landed them on the scrap heap, namely, mass immigration of cheap labor and agreements that took millions of jobs out of the country.

    President Trump must succeed in addressing these two problems, or truly we are lost.

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  63. @Maj. Kong
    The crisis of the West cannot be resolved without the destruction of Feminism as an ideology.

    Agreed–take a look at Chateau Heartiste‘s post on single women’s voting patterns. But you’ll have to work against some trends that have a lot of momentum. There was a podcast by a guy called Red Pill Germany. He talked about several women he knew who were hitting the Wall and were unmarried. In no case had they been promiscuous party girls riding the Alpha cock carousel, but rather they had focused intensely on their careers (one was a ballerina, for example) and they now found a dearth of suitable mates. I found the podcast particularly well done because he illustrated it with stock photos of “strong, confident career women” in skirted suits with great legs (probably 23-year old models). That is the ideal that is being presented to young women today. That has to change. In some resects Marissa Mayers (the CEO of Yahoo, I think that’s the right spelling) is a more dangerous role model than Miley Cyrus. Almost any young woman can see the decadence of Miley Cyrus, but Marissa Mayers is a more alluring temptation. And a lot of young women are being told by even their mothers that they need a career because they cannot depend on a man to take care of them.

    Read More
  64. To translate the graph better, 35 year old non-college whites in 2015 died from the “deaths from despair” at more than 50% the rate of 35 year old non-college whites in 2010 and more than double the rate in 2005.

    I do not think religion, music, or other cultural issues can explain such a rapid increase. Opiates explain some of it, but not the rapid increase in alcohol and suicide deaths.

    Rather it is a matter of the mass importation of foreign blue collar laborers, plus the post-’86 amnesty baby boom, that has caused many in this demographic to become permanently unemployed and the rest of them to suffer from lower wages and decreased job security.

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    • Replies: @Rod1963

    Rather it is a matter of the mass importation of foreign blue collar laborers, plus the post-’86 amnesty baby boom, that has caused many in this demographic to become permanently unemployed and the rest of them to suffer from lower wages and decreased job security.
     
    Factor in free trade agreements and you nailed it.
  65. @Travis
    https://youtu.be/fTB0CCmqxJo

    Hank Williams Jr concert. While hank sings All my rowdy friends have settled down...or died..the crowd appears to consist of future Trump supporters.

    Hank Sr. was a canary in this particular coal mine (the thread topic).

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OgOZmz_IsUM

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  66. Anon says:     Show CommentNext New Comment

    For whites, it’s “Give me privilege or give me death”

    White Death is a perfect storm.

    White Dearth(birth dearth) is a problem too.

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  67. The “White Death” is largely restricted to women in Greater Appalachian (i.e. Scots-Irish) parts of the country:


    Mortality rate trends by age, ethnicity, sex, and state

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    • Replies: @Opinionator
    If true, would that upset the White Death narrative? Sincere, agnostic question.
    , @anon
    Is that partly due to women catching up to an already unusually high male mortality rate in Appalachia?
  68. President Trump from October 2016:

    https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/787320961934688257

    President Trump was able to connect the drug problem in New Hampshire to the open border with Mexico. President Trump said the drugs pouring over the border are poisoning our people. President Trump repeatedly said that he was taken aback by the scenic beauty of New Hampshire juxtaposed with the ugly drug scourge currently killing and destroying so many people in New Hampshire.

    Chris Christie also discussed the drug problem at his primary campaign stops and townhalls, but Christie featured a story about a high IQ guy with fancy degrees who destroyed himself with drugs.

    President Trump won the presidency because he got a lot of votes from Whites Without College Degrees(WWCDs). Many WWCDs know people who have been destroyed by drugs — legal or illegal. President Trump said he would stop the drugs from pouring over the border from Mexico. President Trump framed the drug issue as a border issue.

    In New Hampshire, border issues also mean the border with Massachusetts where the drugs flow in from multicultural hellholes like Lawrence and Lowell.

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  69. Has there been a white death phenomenon in Utah? That’s one state that seems to be doing well for its WWC.

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    • Replies: @anon
    iirc North Dakota as well due to the fracking jobs.
  70. @Desiderius
    That's where the invasion started.

    True (and good point). But was that the primary factor all around? The next stops (e.g. Appalachia) don’t match up so well with that hypothesis.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Desiderius
    Well, we've always been pretty good at dying. If someone else is getting ahead of us, we're not apt to put up with it for long.
    , @Autochthon
    Invaders are opportunists. Appalachia is the most destitute area of the U.S.A., hence where the cartels are most successful pushing narcotics on the despairing natives (cf. Sutton, William). Steve has written about this phenomenon of white rural communities targeted by evil mestizoid cartels as easier pickings for their poisons than the competitive, urban markets. Well, it doesn't get much whiter or rural than Appalachia. (Northern Maine, maybe....)

    Other relevant evidence and hypotheses:

    "[The Sierra Club] scoured every permit application for vulnerabilities and managed to block all but thirty of the two hundred [coal] plants proposed in the Bush era....

    Beyond Coal’s pivotal moment came at a meeting in Gracie Mansion about, of all things, education reform. Michael Bloomberg, the Wall Street savant-turned media mogul-turned New York City mayor, was looking for a new outlet for his private philanthropy. It quickly became clear that education reform would not be that outlet.

    “It was a terrible meeting in every way, and Mike was angry,” recalls his longtime adviser, Kevin Sheekey. “I said: ‘Look, if you don’t like this idea, that’s fine. We’ll bring you another.’ He said: ‘No, I want another now.’”

    As it happened, Sheekey had just eaten lunch with Carl Pope, who was starting a $50 million fundraising drive to expand Beyond Coal’s staff to 45 states. The cap-and-trade plan that Obama supported to cut carbon emissions had stalled in Congress, and the carbon tax that Bloomberg supported was going nowhere as well. Washington was gridlocked. But Pope had explained to Sheekey that shutting down coal plants at the state and local level could do even more for the climate—and have a huge impact on public health issues close to his boss’s heart.

    “That’s a good idea,” Bloomberg told Sheekey. “We’ll just give Carl a check for the $50 million. Tell him to stop fundraising and get to work.”

    Then, too, it's all during the period when military budgets were being gutted and bases closed (Scots are as highly represented in civilian supporting positions commonly taken by veterans as they are in the military itself....)

    And, of course (though Intelligent Dasein will be along shortly to wag a finger and declaim that we are all of us master's of our own destiny) Scots are notoriously susceptible to addiction.

    Lastly, don't discount a possible redistributive effect: people are increasingly expected to move about spastically to be able to feed themselves, and they increasingly do. (N.B. the many smug pieces in the vein of "Well, the losers laid off from factories l in Omaha and Wheeling should move to San Francisco and Boston and become writers like me!") The phenomenon not only precludes reproduction and destroys support systems and leaving people isolated, rootless, friendless, and surrounded by hostile and predatory populations (I myself am not ashamed to admit I have suffered this from constant moving to keep employed and service debts; and I expect I've more fortitude and resourcefulness to cope than many, but I am nonetheless miserable for it). The moving also means that each badly effected place will yield refugees – internally displaced persons – leaving for a place where the impact of invasion, offshoring, and so on have left things not quite so horrible. Appalachia is at the bottom of the pile; economically, it's the tubby, clumsy kid picked last for the kickball team. (Not even picked really, just the last guy left once the true last pick was made!) In the musical chairs of internal displacement from the upheaval, when the music stops, Appalachia is the metaphorical fellow without a seat.

    , @Forbes
    Mexican/Hispanic drug cartels avoided areas where they would run up against black-run drug dealers (gangs) who tend to violently enforce territory/market share position. Simple as that.
  71. You are missing the scale on the y-Axis, which is deaths per 100,000. Without a scale the graph is meaningless and even misleading.

    Obviously these numbers are not trending in the right direction, but you do have to keep them in perspective. Say you compare the death rates from 1945 group (among the best) to the 1960 group (among the worst) at age 55 . Out of a group of 100,000 of each, 40 of the ’45ers and 120 of the 60s children would have died as a result of “despair” between their 54th and 55th birthday, while 99,960 of the former and 99,880 would still be alive or would have died from some other cause that year. So the difference is 80/100,000 or 0.16%.

    If you compare these #’s to Russian #’s we are just amateurs in the despair business. This is one area where the Russians are the undisputed champs and they don’t have to rig the drug tests or anything.

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  72. The greatest tragedy here is that opioid overdose is 100% preventable. There are multiple opioids that do not cause respiratory depression (kratom being the most popular these days) and there are dozens of over-the-counter medicines that reduce or block opioid tolerance development (e.g., DXM or agmatine), if you’ve been unlucky enough to get hooked on an opioid that does, at high doses, cause respiratory depression (i.e., the thing that ends up killing you).

    I’m not talking about heroin, obviously, which is a straight-to-the-bloodstream killer.

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  73. @PennTothal

    My suggestion about another cause is the decline of religious faith
     
    "And be ye not like those who forget God, and whom He hath therefore caused to forget their own selves."

    -Qur'an 59:19

    I dislike Islam in the West, but the Muslims are missing a bet by not adapting their religion to the United States. A rigorous “evangelical” Islam that left more room for Jesus and moved Mohammed aside a bit might actually have a chance of gaining traction among American working class whites. Not my choice, but more likely than a Protestant or Catholic revival in their present cucked form.

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    • Replies: @Jack D
    That religion wouldn't be Islam any more than "Jews for Jesus" are still Jews.

    If you look at converts to Islam like the recent Westminster killer (who BTW fell off the radar really fast - it was in no one's interest, neither left or right, to linger over a nonimmigrant 1/2 black 1/2 English terrorist who could have been Obama's brother) by the time they get to Islam they have long since (if they ever had) severed any meaningful connection with Christianity so they don't really feel a need to included Jesus in their religion. If they did, they would just remain Christian.

    Islam, like Mormonism, depends on the existence of a latter day prophet. Jesus is fine and he's a prophet but he's not the last word - OUR guy is an even bigger prophet and teacher who is here to give you the correct interpretation of what the older guy said and which all the other religions have gotten wrong. So you can correctly understand Jesus only thru the lens of our guy and his book - you don't even have to bother reading the original.
  74. Go back to the 1980′s and you had the LBO people on Wall Street devastating American industry with leveraged buy outs. This hammered the blue collars and middle-class like crazy.

    In 1992 we got NAFTA, PNTR with China and later other trade agreements that sent over 8 million jobs overseas. And for each one of those jobs going away two more were diminished.

    Then factor in illegal immigration and American industry using them to replace whites. Not to mention other American companies using H2-B, H1-B’s, etc to freeze out whites from traditional jobs they used to do.

    The overall effect of this has been devastating across he mid-West and Rust Belt, you don’t need statistics or charts to tell you that. Entire communities were kicked to the gutter and families wrecked and with no hope for a better future. This fractured families like crazy.

    This is why white drug use and suicides by men went up.

    Outside of Paleocons, lower class whites, pundits like Thomas Franks, no one notice or cared.

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  75. @Lot
    To translate the graph better, 35 year old non-college whites in 2015 died from the "deaths from despair" at more than 50% the rate of 35 year old non-college whites in 2010 and more than double the rate in 2005.

    I do not think religion, music, or other cultural issues can explain such a rapid increase. Opiates explain some of it, but not the rapid increase in alcohol and suicide deaths.

    Rather it is a matter of the mass importation of foreign blue collar laborers, plus the post-'86 amnesty baby boom, that has caused many in this demographic to become permanently unemployed and the rest of them to suffer from lower wages and decreased job security.

    Rather it is a matter of the mass importation of foreign blue collar laborers, plus the post-’86 amnesty baby boom, that has caused many in this demographic to become permanently unemployed and the rest of them to suffer from lower wages and decreased job security.

    Factor in free trade agreements and you nailed it.

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  76. @Catholic Union Man
    I'm a little older than you but had a similar experience growing up. As far as being told from a young age that degeneracy and decadence are cool and if you don't buy into such things you are a square. The people who have the mega-phone want this, as well as the demographic displacement that follows and are frankly gleeful in talking about it when the topic comes up. Look, my neighborhood is the kind of blue-collar white ethnic neighborhood on the edge of a large east coast industrial city that has been ravaged by this stuff...think Charle's Murray's Fishtown. Back in the day you could get fired from one plant in the morning and go get a job somewhere else later on in the day...all Union jobs that could support a family. Good jobs in plants were a birthright handed down from Father to Son...College was for pussies. Believe me, I'm from that world. Bethlehem Steel and Sun Shipbuilding in Chester, Pa employed over 100,000 people in Eastern Pa alone. That's 100,000 families that had a decent shot at some level of prosperity all long gone. Both of those former industrial sites are now Casinos imposing a form of sin-self taxation on the descendants of the former workers I imagine. If that's not telling of how deep the rot is...

    It’s true that those jobs paid relatively well, but I really wouldn’t want my kid to go to work in either place. The shipyards were full of asbestos and many former shipyard workers now have asbestos related diseases that have crippled them and will kill them. Steel mills were also hot, dirty and dangerous places that literally look like a vision of hell.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8vbNkBOGMwg

    Now the guys did this every day and knew what they were doing, so they took it very nonchalantly (they are sitting 5 feet from molten steel pouring out at 2500 degrees F but look like they’re sitting on a park bench) but like the guys who work the high steel they are really only a slip away from death.

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    • Replies: @Catholic Union Man
    Very true point and thanks for posting that video. My point is not that these were dream careers, quite the opposite actually. It's just that not everyone is a motivated self starter and not everyone is college material. Some (most) people just go with the flow and let life push them around. And most people are frankly not smart enough to do much else. In my father's generation the working-class in my neighborhood fell ass backwards into jobs that abetted White-Christian family formation. Now there is nothing to fall ass-backward into. You probably deduced from my handle that I am a Union tradesman. I served in the Military in part to ensure that I would be able to get a good career. Those are the types of things that the WWC has to do to get a career and most of the guys I grew up with simply don't have it in them to change. So instead many are addicted to heroin or Oxycontin. Many also died as early as our teenage years from heroin or fentanyl or whatever. Many live a lifestyle similar to the Black underclass that they will ironically disapprove of at the same time as they emulate their' style of dress and taste in music. We used to call people like that wiggers or white trash but it is now the new normal (having babies out of wedlock by different women, no career, drug addiction, etc.). I doubt that my experience is unique amongst people from Northeast Philly, Roxborough, Delaware County or the similar WWC areas of other post-industrial metros.
  77. @Roger Sweeny
    The ’60s were, in reality, the Smart Liberation era. Much of 1960s liberalism begins with: “Assume everyone is above average in intelligence.” This belief can make life more convenient for people who actually are above average in intelligence.

    Myron Magnet said something similar in 1993's The Dream and the Nightmare: The Sixties' Legacy to the Underclass. A good book.

    We talked about this on another thread, when the subject of A Serious Man came up. Guys like the Coen Brothers were smart enough and self controlled enough that they could go to Hebrew school stoned and still end up as rich and famous movie directors, but the average Joe might not know where to draw the line and might end up losing his job for coming in under the influence or might end up an addict. In the old regime, we just had a hard and fast rule – marijuana is illegal, period. Nobody can have it. This was not pleasing to guys like the Coen Brothers – they said , “that’s not fair to me – I can handle drugs in a way that will not ruin my life and I get a lot of pleasure from them.” So for every two 140IQ guys like the Coen Brothers maybe there are 10 or 20 homeless people now who couldn’t handle that much “freedom”.

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    • Replies: @Grumpy
    Scott Adams comes to mind.
    , @dfordoom

    In the old regime, we just had a hard and fast rule – marijuana is illegal, period. Nobody can have it. This was not pleasing to guys like the Coen Brothers – they said , “that’s not fair to me – I can handle drugs in a way that will not ruin my life and I get a lot of pleasure from them.” So for every two 140IQ guys like the Coen Brothers maybe there are 10 or 20 homeless people now who couldn’t handle that much “freedom”.
     
    Yep, I totally agree. While I still maintain that drug addiction is a choice that people make it's crazy for a society to encourage such bad choices. We should not only go back to cannabis being totally illegal, we should actually enforce the damned law.
  78. @Anonym
    Pink Floyd experienced the importance of the balance between liberation and the human longing for structure via the problems they encountered with Syd Barrett. Maybe that was the reason for their biggest artistic accomplishments, which came after the Barrett-experience (yes, they for sure were: Experienced – in oh so many ways…).

    I'm certainly a fan of Pink Floyd the musical experience, they were brilliant, but especially Roger Waters can be whiny, petulant and quite nasty. If they experienced much of a longing for structure, they were certainly ones to tear down the establishment of the day. Do you see much evidence they appreciated structure, other than musical structure? In The Wall, there was certainly a lot of pathologizing of concerns about white civilization as madness. How dare anyone be concerned about the "queens and the coons and the reds and the Jews"? Indeed, the only sane thing to do would be to turn over your country and make it a non-British Babel, surely Roger Waters must be quite happy sitting back and watching it all burn.

    Animals had a lot of Marxist class envy/hatred. Practically the whole album is that, put to music.

    https://youtu.be/2Okd3Oyii7E

    Oh well. At least they produced some great music - music that has been embraced by the stoner crowd that unlike the Grateful Dead, does not require a pot consumption measured in x number of ounces per week to appreciate.

    I’m not so sure these interperations are the whole story. Animals, like Rush’s “The Trees,” is as much wry observation about unchanging human nature and its inevitable madness as it is any kind of advocacy for Marxism; it might even be seen to mock vain egalitarianism.

    Likewise with much of their work not masterminded by Waters – who was obsessed with hating The Man – and even much that was: arch but bemused cynicism about the suits in the music industry, the anguish of the human condition and the importance of striving despite the futility of our efforts for a Utopia, yearning for lost innocence and meaningful connections with our fellow man, the tragedy of war, the existential absurdity of modern consumerism – these strike me as themes of Animals, A Momentary Lapse of Reason, The Dark Side of the Moon, The Division Bell, Wish You Were Here, and even earlier pieces from Meddle and A Saucerful of Secrets (cf., “Fearless”).

    The less mature earlier stuff is mostly interesting and talented musical jams with pretty silly or whimsical lyrics – there is no shame in that for a bunch of guys in their twenties.

    David Gilmour famously abstained from drugs his entire adult life after experiencing the horrors of what they did to Syd Barrett, so he was certainly aware of the need for discipline and sensibility. Roger Waters, albeit a musical genius, was always a bit whackadoo: inspired by an image he created of his communist, pacificist father encouraged by the trauma of that father’s death in the war, flakily marrying serially (the guy’s had four wives, the most recent of which he was married to for all of three years), never playing well with others and being a prima donna about The Final Cut and the band’s split, etc..

    I guess my own take is that, yes, Waters seems like kind of a nihilisitic dick, but he wa only one fourth of the band. Mason, Gilmour, and Wright were suprisingly low-key and well-adjusted, as rock stars go, sort of like the guys in Genesis (excepting Gabriel, who was, unsurprisingly, that band’s SJW grandstander…).

    (Barrett made himself into a vegetable so early in his career I dunno that he is here or there.)

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    • Replies: @Anonym
    I guess I'd have to see examples from the lyrics that make your point re: Animals. It seems to me that the song Sheep (Waters) is not just class envy but homicidal Marxism, or at least that's my take. Those poor old bleeding hearts and artists who just want to whimsically rip the throats out of the upper classes, that's when they're not preventing the fascists from protecting Britain from slow invasion that is.

    The other themes you mention, yes, those are there, my point was about the striving for structure I don't see much evidence for, at least, nothing they would commit to lyrics, unless I am overlooking something. Musical geniuses, and not just Waters, certainly though.
    , @Dieter Kief
    I was hoping for a comment as interesting as yours about Pink Floyd. Thanks!

    Works of art are most important as - works of art, aren't they? And as musicians, Pink Floyd did turn lots of the 60ies ff. - into song.

    I was out in the spring-woods near the swiss alps for days and days lately (taking photographs), many hours besides a little pond. Very much taken in by the scenery - and nothing fits my feelings better then, than some of the tender and meditative songs of Pink Floyd - they kind of popp up in my head - - and gently disappear after a few seconds. "Grantchester Meadows" (....) "See the splashing of the kingfisher \ flashing to the water..."

  79. @Jack D
    It's true that those jobs paid relatively well, but I really wouldn't want my kid to go to work in either place. The shipyards were full of asbestos and many former shipyard workers now have asbestos related diseases that have crippled them and will kill them. Steel mills were also hot, dirty and dangerous places that literally look like a vision of hell.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8vbNkBOGMwg

    Now the guys did this every day and knew what they were doing, so they took it very nonchalantly (they are sitting 5 feet from molten steel pouring out at 2500 degrees F but look like they're sitting on a park bench) but like the guys who work the high steel they are really only a slip away from death.

    Very true point and thanks for posting that video. My point is not that these were dream careers, quite the opposite actually. It’s just that not everyone is a motivated self starter and not everyone is college material. Some (most) people just go with the flow and let life push them around. And most people are frankly not smart enough to do much else. In my father’s generation the working-class in my neighborhood fell ass backwards into jobs that abetted White-Christian family formation. Now there is nothing to fall ass-backward into. You probably deduced from my handle that I am a Union tradesman. I served in the Military in part to ensure that I would be able to get a good career. Those are the types of things that the WWC has to do to get a career and most of the guys I grew up with simply don’t have it in them to change. So instead many are addicted to heroin or Oxycontin. Many also died as early as our teenage years from heroin or fentanyl or whatever. Many live a lifestyle similar to the Black underclass that they will ironically disapprove of at the same time as they emulate their’ style of dress and taste in music. We used to call people like that wiggers or white trash but it is now the new normal (having babies out of wedlock by different women, no career, drug addiction, etc.). I doubt that my experience is unique amongst people from Northeast Philly, Roxborough, Delaware County or the similar WWC areas of other post-industrial metros.

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    • Replies: @Anonymous
    So instead many are addicted to heroin or Oxycontin. Many also died as early as our teenage years from heroin or fentanyl or whatever.

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xAKoU_W_mf8 (The Jim Carroll Band - "People Who Died")
  80. In some important ways, the fate of white HS-only is becoming akin to that of Native Americans on reservations. They seem to have had their entire purpose in life taken away from them — in the case of white HS-only, a good manufacturing or similar job — and are falling into addictions to cope with the emptiness.

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  81. Photo essay of New York City Heroin addicts, – all white folks – Life Magazine, 1965. Interesting. When Heroin was NOT cool. Dirty, squalid. They most likely all died of AIDS 15 years later.

    http://www.vintag.es/2013/10/harrowing-portrait-of-addicts-in-new.html

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  82. @Diversity Heretic
    I dislike Islam in the West, but the Muslims are missing a bet by not adapting their religion to the United States. A rigorous "evangelical" Islam that left more room for Jesus and moved Mohammed aside a bit might actually have a chance of gaining traction among American working class whites. Not my choice, but more likely than a Protestant or Catholic revival in their present cucked form.

    That religion wouldn’t be Islam any more than “Jews for Jesus” are still Jews.

    If you look at converts to Islam like the recent Westminster killer (who BTW fell off the radar really fast – it was in no one’s interest, neither left or right, to linger over a nonimmigrant 1/2 black 1/2 English terrorist who could have been Obama’s brother) by the time they get to Islam they have long since (if they ever had) severed any meaningful connection with Christianity so they don’t really feel a need to included Jesus in their religion. If they did, they would just remain Christian.

    Islam, like Mormonism, depends on the existence of a latter day prophet. Jesus is fine and he’s a prophet but he’s not the last word – OUR guy is an even bigger prophet and teacher who is here to give you the correct interpretation of what the older guy said and which all the other religions have gotten wrong. So you can correctly understand Jesus only thru the lens of our guy and his book – you don’t even have to bother reading the original.

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  83. Latter day hipsters smoking Opium in a Chinese Opium den in New York City, circa 1900.

    Might legalizing opium curtail Heroin/Fentanyl use. From the little I have read, it is very difficult to overdose on Opium. One would become violently nauseous and sick before one reached the OD, life-threatening threshold.

    Interdiction, sanction, repression are clearly not working.

    http://cf.collectorsweekly.com/uploads/2012/09/nyden.jpeg

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    • Replies: @Seth Largo
    Absolutely. There are safe ways to opiate yourself that will nether kill you nor make you a useless zombie. A non-trivial number of the West's great writers, philosophers, and artists were opium fiends.

    But that's the cycle. The West bans a natural drug that has minor downsides but all in all is relatively safe, then replaces it either with legal or pseudo-legal synthetics that are a thousand times worse. Hence we went from opium to heroin to fentanyl and God knows what elephant tranquilizers the street addicts are taking these days. Also, from marijuana to K2 to Spice.
  84. @res
    True (and good point). But was that the primary factor all around? The next stops (e.g. Appalachia) don't match up so well with that hypothesis.

    Well, we’ve always been pretty good at dying. If someone else is getting ahead of us, we’re not apt to put up with it for long.

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  85. @Formerly CARealist
    As to Pink Floyd, teenagers I knew in the mid-80's were happily doing all manner of substances while listening to their music or watching their movie. In fact, was their selling point about anything other than drugs?

    Are there bands who are the equivalent of Pink Floyd now? I have no idea how the rebellious youth currently view the drug/music/party scene. do they still sit in someone's garage, get stoned, and listen to loud, brain-searing rock n roll?

    Is it healthy for youths to listen to Pink Floyd music?

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  86. @Anon
    We live in a sick culture that promotes, often subliminally, all types of destructive behavior. I'm a millennial who probably watched too much (M)TV pre-puberty, and I remember, for instance, thinking at a very young age that heroin was cool. I later wondered ... hmm, why did I think that? But, these days, being redpilled on the inner workings of many of these backward trends, I know exactly why -- because it was promoted in movies and on television as something cool people did. Now I read about this heroin epidemic and think, hmm ... perhaps I wasn't the only person who internalized that message.

    Yes, it's about jobs and industry leaving and America becoming a multicultural free trade zone, it's about no fault divorce and the dissolution of the family unit, it's about alcohol, it's about legal drug dealing families like (((the Sackler's))) promoting opiates prior to the influx of dirt cheap Afghan heroin the CIA now funnels through Baltimore and then into the rest of the country, but it's also about the sick culture we live in, which has gotten progressively worse since the free love boomer youth were set free from their repressive, racist parents.

    A lot of savvy young people of the internet generation now know how this stuff is engineered, though -- the information is in, we were born in it, and this is why so many young white men are way more to the right than Steve's commentariate. We know why it's happening and we know who's doing it, and we don't BS around it like a lot of boomers still do. There's a reason why the same trends were present in Russia up until recently; because the same people who were in charge over there are now in charge over here. This is about people: who is running the show, in charge of crafting the youth culture, and able to promote their policies and agenda. Presently in the US, that is an alien elite who wants to see us destroyed. So we are dying...

    “The Sixties” that you are thinking of when you think of a certain period of time is evidence that you too are colonized by an “alien elite.”

    The 1960s in the place where I grew up–sounds like Catholic Union Man and I were practically neighbors, and maybe Jack D too–was not about “free love.”

    It wasn’t about drugs, or rock and roll.

    It was “deindustrialization.” It was race riots.

    Soon after that it was the Wade Dump Fire and the explosion of the Corinthos and refinery fires.

    It was the Asbestos Plague.

    It was massive unemployment and forced busing and neighborhoods turned into slums.

    You are more colonized than you seem to know if you think “Woodstock” was anything other than a marketing invention designed to monetarize a large postwar youth demographic and twist it into thinking of itself as a shopping cohort.

    You are more colonized than you seem to know if you lump everyone of a certain age span into one word, then hold yourself over it.

    Who do you think invented the idea of “the Sixties” and “free love” and all? You think that was a chthonic invention of people born between 1945 and 1960?

    Why the hell do you believe it existed as anything other than a set of degenerate memes?

    How can you call yourself “more right” if you see your elders through (((those homogenizing filters))) which you claim to reject/be smarter than?

    Still, I’m glad younger people are able to talk in a way we didn’t have in the Age of Punk. I mean the real punk, not that Clashy crap sold by (((Columbia))).

    http://www.instapunk.com/about.html

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    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    It wasn’t about drugs, or rock and roll.

    It was “deindustrialization.” It was race riots.

    Soon after that it was the Wade Dump Fire and the explosion of the Corinthos and refinery fires.

    It was the Asbestos Plague.

    It was massive unemployment and forced busing and neighborhoods turned into slums.
     
    Don't forget the introduction of the designated hitter rule. And the bogus "playoff" four years earlier.


    You are more colonized than you seem to know if you think “Woodstock” was anything other than a marketing invention designed to monetarize a large postwar youth demographic and twist it into thinking of itself as a shopping cohort.
     
    It was put on by two Jewish boys from Brooklyn. Not that there's anything wrong with that...

    What I've never understood is why my fellow goyim ever though Bob Dylan could sing. I've long suspected his fellow Jews feel the same as I do, but keep their mouths shut.
  87. @JayMan
    The "White Death" is largely restricted to women in Greater Appalachian (i.e. Scots-Irish) parts of the country:


    Mortality rate trends by age, ethnicity, sex, and state

    If true, would that upset the White Death narrative? Sincere, agnostic question.

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  88. When the 30 year post war boom went tits up in ’73, that was it for a lot of the boomers. Next 10 years were the Malaise Decade, with the world economy careening into and sometimes out of recessions/depressions until ’83.

    Anybody born in or after ’55 was starting their career in that hellhole; and as things went along, it just got worse. So a lot of them never got a ‘career’. They just got a job. A marginal one. The first ones to go when there was a reduction in force….

    Then you had the SJW’s and the diversity crusade to get rid of any and all whites from the work place; 100% black or female OK. 10% white we need more diversity.

    I’m just waiting for the coming war….

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    • Replies: @anonguy
    If you look at statistics for bad outcomes/dysfunction of all sorts, among young people, drugs/crime/delinquency, there is a very steep rise starting at about 1955 birth years and increasing every year thereafter.

    They are grouped together as one baby boom generation, but the first and second halves are markedly different. The latter baby-boomers are much more like Gen-Xers in many ways.

  89. @Lot
    The new "treatments" for Hep C do not cure it and are extremely expensive. Given the demographics of those who have it, the US Gov and states via Medicaid are paying for most of it.

    The new “treatments” for Hep C do not cure it and are extremely expensive. Given the demographics of those who have it, the US Gov and states via Medicaid are paying for most of it.

    AFAIK, they do cure it. That’s why it’s so expensive. Gilead only gets to sell the drug once to a given patient. That’s why its sales numbers for this drug are crashing. The drug is more effective than they expected it to be.

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  90. @res
    True (and good point). But was that the primary factor all around? The next stops (e.g. Appalachia) don't match up so well with that hypothesis.

    Invaders are opportunists. Appalachia is the most destitute area of the U.S.A., hence where the cartels are most successful pushing narcotics on the despairing natives (cf. Sutton, William). Steve has written about this phenomenon of white rural communities targeted by evil mestizoid cartels as easier pickings for their poisons than the competitive, urban markets. Well, it doesn’t get much whiter or rural than Appalachia. (Northern Maine, maybe….)

    Other relevant evidence and hypotheses:

    “[The Sierra Club] scoured every permit application for vulnerabilities and managed to block all but thirty of the two hundred [coal] plants proposed in the Bush era….

    Beyond Coal’s pivotal moment came at a meeting in Gracie Mansion about, of all things, education reform. Michael Bloomberg, the Wall Street savant-turned media mogul-turned New York City mayor, was looking for a new outlet for his private philanthropy. It quickly became clear that education reform would not be that outlet.

    “It was a terrible meeting in every way, and Mike was angry,” recalls his longtime adviser, Kevin Sheekey. “I said: ‘Look, if you don’t like this idea, that’s fine. We’ll bring you another.’ He said: ‘No, I want another now.’”

    As it happened, Sheekey had just eaten lunch with Carl Pope, who was starting a $50 million fundraising drive to expand Beyond Coal’s staff to 45 states. The cap-and-trade plan that Obama supported to cut carbon emissions had stalled in Congress, and the carbon tax that Bloomberg supported was going nowhere as well. Washington was gridlocked. But Pope had explained to Sheekey that shutting down coal plants at the state and local level could do even more for the climate—and have a huge impact on public health issues close to his boss’s heart.

    “That’s a good idea,” Bloomberg told Sheekey. “We’ll just give Carl a check for the $50 million. Tell him to stop fundraising and get to work.”

    Then, too, it’s all during the period when military budgets were being gutted and bases closed (Scots are as highly represented in civilian supporting positions commonly taken by veterans as they are in the military itself….)

    And, of course (though Intelligent Dasein will be along shortly to wag a finger and declaim that we are all of us master’s of our own destiny) Scots are notoriously susceptible to addiction.

    Lastly, don’t discount a possible redistributive effect: people are increasingly expected to move about spastically to be able to feed themselves, and they increasingly do. (N.B. the many smug pieces in the vein of “Well, the losers laid off from factories l in Omaha and Wheeling should move to San Francisco and Boston and become writers like me!”) The phenomenon not only precludes reproduction and destroys support systems and leaving people isolated, rootless, friendless, and surrounded by hostile and predatory populations (I myself am not ashamed to admit I have suffered this from constant moving to keep employed and service debts; and I expect I’ve more fortitude and resourcefulness to cope than many, but I am nonetheless miserable for it). The moving also means that each badly effected place will yield refugees – internally displaced persons – leaving for a place where the impact of invasion, offshoring, and so on have left things not quite so horrible. Appalachia is at the bottom of the pile; economically, it’s the tubby, clumsy kid picked last for the kickball team. (Not even picked really, just the last guy left once the true last pick was made!) In the musical chairs of internal displacement from the upheaval, when the music stops, Appalachia is the metaphorical fellow without a seat.

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  91. @Daniel H
    Latter day hipsters smoking Opium in a Chinese Opium den in New York City, circa 1900.

    Might legalizing opium curtail Heroin/Fentanyl use. From the little I have read, it is very difficult to overdose on Opium. One would become violently nauseous and sick before one reached the OD, life-threatening threshold.

    Interdiction, sanction, repression are clearly not working.

    http://cf.collectorsweekly.com/uploads/2012/09/nyden.jpeg

    Absolutely. There are safe ways to opiate yourself that will nether kill you nor make you a useless zombie. A non-trivial number of the West’s great writers, philosophers, and artists were opium fiends.

    But that’s the cycle. The West bans a natural drug that has minor downsides but all in all is relatively safe, then replaces it either with legal or pseudo-legal synthetics that are a thousand times worse. Hence we went from opium to heroin to fentanyl and God knows what elephant tranquilizers the street addicts are taking these days. Also, from marijuana to K2 to Spice.

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  92. @Robert Hume
    Slightly OT.
    I used to think that "diversity", much of it due to immigration, was the cause of "white death" until I realized that there's very little diversity, for example, in West Virginia, and in the countryside, where, nonetheless the "white death" is mostly found.

    A possible explanation is that the cities, where the jobs are, have been taken over by "diversity" and are unwelcoming to whites moving in from the countryside.

    I remember when I first moved to my current place of residence that there was a large white working-class and in addition many whites moved in from the countryside for the work week and returned to the country for the weekend.

    No more. Those jobs are now taken by immigrants, no need for "immigrants" or visitors from the countryside.

    Thus the countryside festers in idleness and feels unwanted.

    Right! This is part of the business I wrote about internally displaced persons – one needn’t move to be displaced; one may be displaced by being pre-empted from moving, as it were, or driven away even if they do initially relocate there.

    I’ll again use myself as an example: I make very good money at a job many would envy, and I am desperately trying to order my affairs enough to go work as a retail clerk or some such in Middletown, because my circumstances currently (as they have done for years) are such that I may as well be living with Martians: soul-crushing anomie and loneliness; no society, vanishingly few friends, no romantic prospects, no connection to humanity at all because everyone else is an extra from Invasion of the Pod People or They Live.

    Get Out, indeed….

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  93. Anonymous says:     Show CommentNext New Comment
    @Ali Choudhury
    The elite indifference is rather telling, per an interview in The Atlantic with Angus Deaton, the only Congressman to contact him to discuss his study was the Muslim African-American Keith Ellison.

    https://www.theatlantic.com/amp/article/518880/

    The elite indifference is rather telling, …

    Sometimes I wonder if this is all part of an effort to demonstrate some kind of equality between blacks and whites: if you take away “white privilege”, whites end up in the same kinds of condition as we’ve seen blacks in over the years. The elites and Progressives seem to love this.

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  94. @Catholic Union Man
    I'm a little older than you but had a similar experience growing up. As far as being told from a young age that degeneracy and decadence are cool and if you don't buy into such things you are a square. The people who have the mega-phone want this, as well as the demographic displacement that follows and are frankly gleeful in talking about it when the topic comes up. Look, my neighborhood is the kind of blue-collar white ethnic neighborhood on the edge of a large east coast industrial city that has been ravaged by this stuff...think Charle's Murray's Fishtown. Back in the day you could get fired from one plant in the morning and go get a job somewhere else later on in the day...all Union jobs that could support a family. Good jobs in plants were a birthright handed down from Father to Son...College was for pussies. Believe me, I'm from that world. Bethlehem Steel and Sun Shipbuilding in Chester, Pa employed over 100,000 people in Eastern Pa alone. That's 100,000 families that had a decent shot at some level of prosperity all long gone. Both of those former industrial sites are now Casinos imposing a form of sin-self taxation on the descendants of the former workers I imagine. If that's not telling of how deep the rot is...

    my grandfather worked as a welder at Sun Shipbuilding in Chester. Hard to believe how much Chester has fallen , worse than Fishtown. It must have become mostly Black 40 years ago, the jobs were gone from Chester by 1980.

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  95. https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/847201455165624320

    President Trump should continue to link the drug scourge to the border issue. President Trump should tell Rodney Frelinghuysen, that little rich boy fop who runs the House Appropriations Committee, to completely fund the big, beautiful wall between the United States and Mexico. It should be 50 feet high instead of 30.

    If the US House Appropriations Committee doesn’t fully fund the border wall, then President Trump should not hesitate to attack Frelinghuysen for putting the safety and security of the United States at risk. A 50 foot border wall and fencing system would stem the tide of drugs and illegal aliens that are threatening the security of the United States.

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  96. anon says:     Show CommentNext New Comment

    For example, the red line represents people born in 1950, who turned 18 in 1968 and have or will turn 67 in 2017, or would if they weren’t already dead.

    The green line, which shows the single biggest growth in mortality in five year increments, represents those born in 1955, who turned 18 in 1973.

    Maybe but based on my experience i’d say the bigger reason is housing.

    Pick a year for peak off-shoring. It’ll vary from country to country but say 2000 for the sake of argument.

    That means a guy born in 1955 would be 45 and a guy born in 1973 would be 27.

    What are their housing situations likely to be on average – house paid off vs half-paid or renting?

    My experience is the people on the rustbelt reservation who have a home, drink themselves to death slowly while the people without a home do it fast. People can handle poverty. Poverty and homelessness is an order of magnitude worse.

    The white death is happening in other western countries that had a lot of off-shoring as well but they mostly had housing as part of their welfare system so they have the slow version.

    US has the fast version.

    (Willingness to use other drugs may be a factor as well as even if people are trying really hard, alcohol generally doesn’t kill you that fast.)

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  97. Anonymous says:     Show CommentNext New Comment
    @Catholic Union Man
    Very true point and thanks for posting that video. My point is not that these were dream careers, quite the opposite actually. It's just that not everyone is a motivated self starter and not everyone is college material. Some (most) people just go with the flow and let life push them around. And most people are frankly not smart enough to do much else. In my father's generation the working-class in my neighborhood fell ass backwards into jobs that abetted White-Christian family formation. Now there is nothing to fall ass-backward into. You probably deduced from my handle that I am a Union tradesman. I served in the Military in part to ensure that I would be able to get a good career. Those are the types of things that the WWC has to do to get a career and most of the guys I grew up with simply don't have it in them to change. So instead many are addicted to heroin or Oxycontin. Many also died as early as our teenage years from heroin or fentanyl or whatever. Many live a lifestyle similar to the Black underclass that they will ironically disapprove of at the same time as they emulate their' style of dress and taste in music. We used to call people like that wiggers or white trash but it is now the new normal (having babies out of wedlock by different women, no career, drug addiction, etc.). I doubt that my experience is unique amongst people from Northeast Philly, Roxborough, Delaware County or the similar WWC areas of other post-industrial metros.

    So instead many are addicted to heroin or Oxycontin. Many also died as early as our teenage years from heroin or fentanyl or whatever.

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xAKoU_W_mf8 (The Jim Carroll Band – “People Who Died”)

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  98. @another fred

    So we are dying…
     
    Do not mistake a crisis in a population for an extinction event.

    Half of Europe died from the Black Death and wars in the 14th century, but the survivors prospered and civilization bloomed.

    The population of the earth has grown beyond the limits imposed by our institutions and knowledge. People are floundering about for new institutions to try to cope, but stupidly, IMV. As and when they fail the population will plunge. It is most likely that most of the dying will be done in the crowded urban areas of the first and second worlds plus throughout the third.

    You have both bad and good luck to be born as the storm is rising. The survivors of the storm will have it good, the dead will be forgotten.

    The nonwhite population the earth has grown beyond the limits imposed by our institutions and knowledge.

    Overpopulation in Africa, Asia, and South America is no answer to the genetic suicide of the one race who give a damn about ecology.

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  99. anon says:     Show CommentNext New Comment
    @Sir Juana
    If this were a crisis primarily among minorities, the issue would not be framed as a "carnage" or a tragedy, but rather as an issue of criminality, necessitating even more law enforcement and incarceration. Credit to Murray for calling it like he sees it - he very plainly slated in "Coming Apart" that the decline of the white working class is largely self inflicted. For example, he notes that the decline in male voluntary workforce participation started BEFORE 2008's credit recession.

    What is the relationship between the white death and the rise of the alt right? Surely the phenomenon of the first fueled the other?

    For example, he notes that the decline in male voluntary workforce participation started BEFORE 2008′s credit recession.

    off-shoring started well before 2008

    2008 was partly a result of off-shoring (as part of the slow decay of the domestic economy caused by the banking mafia increasing their leeching after the collapse of the Soviet Union).

    If this were a crisis primarily among minorities, the issue would not be framed as a “carnage” or a tragedy

    If this wasn’t mostly white people it wouldn’t have been covered up for 20 years and would be a bigger issue now – especially during the election – as this was a big factor.

    Credit to Murray for calling it like he sees it – he very plainly slated in “Coming Apart” that the decline of the white working class is largely self inflicted.

    If the media thought it was self-inflicted they wouldn’t have covered it up. They’d have used it to attack white people.

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  100. anon says:     Show CommentNext New Comment
    @Mr. Anon
    Tucker Carlson has covered this topic some on his show. In a recent show, he recited a remarkable statistic: that the present death rate due to heroin and opioid use (combined) is five times greater than the crack death-rate during the early 90s crack epidemic, and about seven times greater than the heroin death-rate during the early 70s heroin epidemic. (Yes, I don't like the use of the word "epidemic" in this context, but it does have a certain analogous meaning to what is intended, and I can't think of an alternative).

    and about seven times greater than the heroin death-rate during the early 70s heroin epidemic

    It would be interesting to see if the 70s heroin epidemic correlated in any way with black unemployment after the 1965 immigration act.

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  101. Steve, Ludwig Beethoven (the “van” is spurious) was the second son of seven whose mother was the sixth daughter of a cook. Ludwig’s father was an alcoholic music teacher.

    How many Beethovens aren’t being born because of all the things Charles Murray laments?

    Admittedly speculative, the theory of white cultural genocide that I’m implying might be something psychometrics/statistics can shine a new or interesting light on. Is there a fresh angle tying together The Bell Curve, Human Accomplishment, and Coming Apart?

    (My hunch is that the inequality produced by forced/accelerated assortive mating in the modern West is a kind of strip mining that will yield legions of administrative state/Egghead McMuffin types with super-high SAT or IQ scores, but no one who can actually think and create. Is this what happened in China?)

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    • Replies: @M. Li Zhao
    >Is this what happened in China?

    It happens to any culture that culls the middle of the curve.
    , @The True and Original David
    Beethoven's mother and father, though not exactly hewers of wood or drawers of water, are recognizable middle types and if ravaged by (see all the White Death trends discussed in this thread), would not have lived to create the genius.

    I notice that Charles Murray's Losing Ground blamed the government for black dysfunction. But when it comes to Beethoven's people, Murray seems to blame the victim: anything short of mass murder by the Cheka might barely rate as influential and is in any case somehow secondary.

    A genetically gifted people driven to despair by hopelessly dysgenic social policy disincentives should fault their own heretofore not-much-in-evidence "laziness" primarily or exclusively?

    The only consistency here seems to be the view that whites are so gifted that they are uniquely superhuman. But if that is so, why fret about inequality?

    Old conservatives often have a confusion in their thinking which may be described as "personal responsibility" v. "government is bad."


    For example, they like to assert that people should stop complaining and get a job: "There is nothing wrong with the economy! America is the land of opportunity, people are just lazy." Simultaneously, they also like to assert that Obama is a son of a bitch. When you ask them why, they answer: "Because he destroyed the economy!"

    This hopeless dialogue could be spun out to farcical length. "But I thought you said the economy is okay." "Yes, I did. Any other view is anti-American!" "But you also said that Obama hurt the economy." "That's right, big government is evil, it crushes businessess and hard-working people!" "Then why are you morally disapproving of its victims?" "What victims? Success is up to the individual, government has no effect on it. People wouldn't be victims if they would exercise personal responsibility instead of blaming their problems on others!" "But if big government isn't blameworthy, then what's wrong with it?" "It destroyed the economy and ruined people, that's what's wrong with it!" "But I thought you said government policy has no effect on success." "It doesn't! A good person pulls himself up by his bootstraps and doesn't blame others, and Washington DC has nothing to do with it!" "So why aren't you voting for Hillary Clinton?" "Are you nuts? She will kill America!" etc., etc.

    Similarly: "Those poor blackies got screwed by DC. We need to change public policy." "I agree. And public policy decisions are leading to harm for whites, too." "Whites? It's their own fault. They are so smart that if anything bad happens to them, then it must be a failure of personal responsibility on their part. They should pull themselves up by their bootstraps and forget about blaming public policy." "But isn't public policy driving dysgenic trends which--" "Oh yes, and in my book I describe a perverse incentive system leading to destabilizing inequality, which in my view is harmful." "So don't you think that this incentive system should be mitigated by wiser public policy decisions?" "Look, the real problem is that these fucking townies need to quit smoking cigarettes and stop holding out for jobs above the level of sharecropper."
  102. anon says:     Show CommentNext New Comment
    @res
    That's a good point. The question is the effect size. I don't think this is nearly enough to explain the plot Steve presented. It might be possible to check this by looking at the results for all three educational groups over time. This excerpt from page 7 of the paper is very relevant:

    We shall be much concerned with education, and work with three educational groups, those with a high school degree or less, those with some college but no BA, and those with a BA or more. Among white non-Hispanics ages 45-54, the share of each education group in the population has seen little change since the early 1990s, with those with no more than a high school degree comprising approximately 40 percent, some college (30 percent) and a BA or more (30 percent). It is important not to focus on those with less than a high school degree, a group that has grown markedly smaller over time, and is likely to be increasingly negatively selected on health.
     
    In particular note the second sentence which indicates the factor you describe has not been in play for ~25 years (and indicates the researchers have thought about this issue!). It would also be interesting to compare less than HS diploma in older cohorts with HS diploma in newer cohorts.

    There is also a geographic component (from page 13):

    The epidemic spread from the southwest, where it was centered in 2000, first to Appalachia, Florida and the west coast by the mid-2000s, and is now country-wide (Figure 1.6). This increase was seen at every level of residential urbanization in the US (Appendix Figure 2); it is neither an urban nor a rural epidemic, rather both.
     
    I'm curious why it would start in the SW?!

    I’m curious why it would start in the SW?!

    The cause of this is un- and under- employment (aka mass immigration and off-shoring) so if off-shoring was more or less the same level across the country and mass immigration was highest in the SW then add the two factors together in each region and you get the pattern.

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  103. @res
    True (and good point). But was that the primary factor all around? The next stops (e.g. Appalachia) don't match up so well with that hypothesis.

    Mexican/Hispanic drug cartels avoided areas where they would run up against black-run drug dealers (gangs) who tend to violently enforce territory/market share position. Simple as that.

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    • Replies: @res
    Thanks. You and Autochthon clarified it for me. The invaders as drug dealers (I was thinking of them as jobs/cultural competition).

    That does cause me to wonder which were the initiator - legal or illegal opiates (etc.). I had assumed legal painkillers started things and then the tightening rules caused people to turn to illegal versions. But the analysis we have been discussing argues for illegal drugs more as the initiator I think.
  104. anon says:     Show CommentNext New Comment
    @NC
    Dude, this isn't that hard to figure out.
    First of all, we're not talking about a difference in life expectancy between the college educated and those without. This is about skyrocketing mortality rates for HS educated whites. That shouldn't ever be happening in a 1st world nation for any demographic group. Anyone who isn't blind or malicious can see that the white American working class is in a state of economic, social and spiritual meltdown due to trends and deliberate policy decisions that have been transparently catastrophic for decades. Also, read the actual study. In the same time period the black and hispanic mortality rate has fallen in the US for those with at most a high school degree, and whites with similar educational backgrounds in multiple European nations have had a similar decline.

    In the same time period the black and hispanic mortality rate has fallen in the US for those with at most a high school degree, and whites with similar educational backgrounds in multiple European nations have had a similar decline.

    Yes.

    Any attempt to explain this has to cover why it is only effecting white blue collar and not black/brown.

    (Although it probably is effecting them in some areas i.e. black people from the northern migration who used to work in the off-shored factories are probably the same but their percentage of the total black population would be lower so may be being masked.)

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  105. anon says:     Show CommentNext New Comment
    @JayMan
    The "White Death" is largely restricted to women in Greater Appalachian (i.e. Scots-Irish) parts of the country:


    Mortality rate trends by age, ethnicity, sex, and state

    Is that partly due to women catching up to an already unusually high male mortality rate in Appalachia?

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  106. @Travis
    my grandfather worked as a welder at Sun Shipbuilding in Chester. Hard to believe how much Chester has fallen , worse than Fishtown. It must have become mostly Black 40 years ago, the jobs were gone from Chester by 1980.

    Yea, I’ve heard it jokingly called West Camden

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  107. anon says:     Show CommentNext New Comment
    @Ali Choudhury
    Has there been a white death phenomenon in Utah? That's one state that seems to be doing well for its WWC.

    iirc North Dakota as well due to the fracking jobs.

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  108. anon says:     Show CommentNext New Comment

    Yes, the white death has touch Utah as well.

    http://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2017/03/23/521083335/the-forces-driving-middle-aged-white-peoples-deaths-of-despair

    Case- “But both states are [in the] top 10 for deaths of despair. Utah has had a terrifically hard time dealing with the opioid crisis, and suicide rates [are] going up as well. There’s a lot of surprise here in parts of the country that we weren’t really expecting to see.”

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  109. @Stan Adams
    I know a guy who graduated from high school in '68. When he came home to visit his parents after his freshman year of college, he stopped by his old school to say hello to a favorite teacher. He said the difference was night and day - the rigid dress code had all but collapsed and the social milieu had been completely transformed.

    I know a guy who graduated from high school in ’68. When he came home to visit his parents after his freshman year of college, he stopped by his old school to say hello to a favorite teacher. He said the difference was night and day – the rigid dress code had all but collapsed and the social milieu had been completely transformed.

    I was an elementary school kid back then, but I remember we would see the older kids hanging out. The rebels had always been greaser types, black leather jackets, pomades, the other ones conventionally attired

    Then, like overnight, all the older kids, rebels and all, all of a sudden had long hair, army coats, ragged bell bottom jeans.

    I remember being very astonished at this seemingly instant and comprehensive transition, I was in fourth grade I believe and that would have been 1969.

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  110. @Dee
    When the 30 year post war boom went tits up in '73, that was it for a lot of the boomers. Next 10 years were the Malaise Decade, with the world economy careening into and sometimes out of recessions/depressions until '83.

    Anybody born in or after '55 was starting their career in that hellhole; and as things went along, it just got worse. So a lot of them never got a 'career'. They just got a job. A marginal one. The first ones to go when there was a reduction in force....

    Then you had the SJW's and the diversity crusade to get rid of any and all whites from the work place; 100% black or female OK. 10% white we need more diversity.

    I'm just waiting for the coming war....

    If you look at statistics for bad outcomes/dysfunction of all sorts, among young people, drugs/crime/delinquency, there is a very steep rise starting at about 1955 birth years and increasing every year thereafter.

    They are grouped together as one baby boom generation, but the first and second halves are markedly different. The latter baby-boomers are much more like Gen-Xers in many ways.

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    • Replies: @dfordoom

    They are grouped together as one baby boom generation, but the first and second halves are markedly different. The latter baby-boomers are much more like Gen-Xers in many ways.
     
    Early Boomers and Late Boomers have absolutely nothing in common. Entirely different life experiences. Late Boomers were the ones who got clobbered by the Oil Crisis and the economy going down the toilet.

    And Late Boomers had a burning hatred for dirty stinking hippies and the whole disgusting hippie sub-culture.

    Late Boomers are indeed very similar to the early (born 1965-1974) Gen-Xers.
  111. @Maj. Kong
    The public, including most of us here and myself, has thrown in the towel on any kind of policing solution on drugs. The real dispute is between those wanting social Darwinism, and those wanting government largesse for rehab.

    A good place to start off any solution is to make the franchise regulated like firearms, addiction strips you of your 2A rights, it should also lead to disenfranchisement.

    Swell: More bloated bureaucracy and sinecures for affirmatively-acted Negroes in the trenches and busybodies from Vasser in administration to determine who is and is not addicted, determine when and if rehabilitation has been achieved, monitor for relapses….

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  112. @The True and Original David
    Steve, Ludwig Beethoven (the "van" is spurious) was the second son of seven whose mother was the sixth daughter of a cook. Ludwig's father was an alcoholic music teacher.

    How many Beethovens aren't being born because of all the things Charles Murray laments?

    Admittedly speculative, the theory of white cultural genocide that I'm implying might be something psychometrics/statistics can shine a new or interesting light on. Is there a fresh angle tying together The Bell Curve, Human Accomplishment, and Coming Apart?

    (My hunch is that the inequality produced by forced/accelerated assortive mating in the modern West is a kind of strip mining that will yield legions of administrative state/Egghead McMuffin types with super-high SAT or IQ scores, but no one who can actually think and create. Is this what happened in China?)

    >Is this what happened in China?

    It happens to any culture that culls the middle of the curve.

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    • Replies: @The True and Original David
    I wonder if what we're calling the middle isn't the bloodstock of the truly great.

    No healthy bloom without roots.

    I wonder if hothouses that prize the bloom yet plague the roots are producing healthy blooms and if they can long continue.

    "Culling the middle" is a good phrase.
  113. @Forbes
    Mexican/Hispanic drug cartels avoided areas where they would run up against black-run drug dealers (gangs) who tend to violently enforce territory/market share position. Simple as that.

    Thanks. You and Autochthon clarified it for me. The invaders as drug dealers (I was thinking of them as jobs/cultural competition).

    That does cause me to wonder which were the initiator – legal or illegal opiates (etc.). I had assumed legal painkillers started things and then the tightening rules caused people to turn to illegal versions. But the analysis we have been discussing argues for illegal drugs more as the initiator I think.

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    • Replies: @Autochthon
    By no means do I dismiss out of hand all instances of a legitimate prescription as a gateway to addiction, but most if us make it to at least middle age without chronic problems or even serious injury that would justify prescribed narcotics, yet many addicts are young. They are buying pills from criminals.

    And even those initially taking the drugs with legitimate prescriptions are only able to continue and abuse them if enabled by criminals. Whether those dealers be thugs on the corner named Paco, Taco, or Tyrone, or whether they be unethical physicians named Krishnagupta, Nguyen, and so on isn't awfully relevant once the addicts are in caskets.

    I use those names purposefully: the thugs are not nearly as often Tom or Sally, and the quacks not Drs. Smith and Jones.

    I've had three traumatic injuries in my life that could call for narcotics. For one of them, my good-ole-boy physician in Tennessee told me bluntly that he appreciated my pain but that he does not prescribe such drugs absent extraordinary circumstances, precisely because he cares about his patients. My other physicians were similarly "stingy," and these injuries are severe things from dangerous athletic activities. So when I read about some cat whose addiction began when he "sprained his ankle" or some such minor injury, I am guessing we are dealing with a pretty shady, irresponsible physician – no one should ever even get the opportunity to become addicted to narcotics because he pulled a muscle gardening; it just does not pass the smell test for me.

  114. @res
    Thanks. You and Autochthon clarified it for me. The invaders as drug dealers (I was thinking of them as jobs/cultural competition).

    That does cause me to wonder which were the initiator - legal or illegal opiates (etc.). I had assumed legal painkillers started things and then the tightening rules caused people to turn to illegal versions. But the analysis we have been discussing argues for illegal drugs more as the initiator I think.

    By no means do I dismiss out of hand all instances of a legitimate prescription as a gateway to addiction, but most if us make it to at least middle age without chronic problems or even serious injury that would justify prescribed narcotics, yet many addicts are young. They are buying pills from criminals.

    And even those initially taking the drugs with legitimate prescriptions are only able to continue and abuse them if enabled by criminals. Whether those dealers be thugs on the corner named Paco, Taco, or Tyrone, or whether they be unethical physicians named Krishnagupta, Nguyen, and so on isn’t awfully relevant once the addicts are in caskets.

    I use those names purposefully: the thugs are not nearly as often Tom or Sally, and the quacks not Drs. Smith and Jones.

    I’ve had three traumatic injuries in my life that could call for narcotics. For one of them, my good-ole-boy physician in Tennessee told me bluntly that he appreciated my pain but that he does not prescribe such drugs absent extraordinary circumstances, precisely because he cares about his patients. My other physicians were similarly “stingy,” and these injuries are severe things from dangerous athletic activities. So when I read about some cat whose addiction began when he “sprained his ankle” or some such minor injury, I am guessing we are dealing with a pretty shady, irresponsible physician – no one should ever even get the opportunity to become addicted to narcotics because he pulled a muscle gardening; it just does not pass the smell test for me.

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    • Replies: @The True and Original David
    I broke my back in the early Oughts and the British-accented (((doc))), who drove an Aston Martin and was at the clinic on some kind of temporary basis, prescribed me opioid painkillers and said: "Don't worry about taking too much. Whenever you feel the slightest pain, take the maximum dose allowed."

    He repeated and stressed this advice. It was a creepy vibe. I mean, the son of a bitch did all but rub his hands together.

    Needless to say, I looked askance at the whole business and took only six of those pills total. Extra-strength aspirin and lying in bed being distracted by TV was an effective alternative in my case.

    By the way, the six pills I popped had no discernable palliative effect. But I did feel a weird withdrawal "ache" when time came to take the seventh.

    , @res
    I had a strange experience with an opiate prescription once. I had a minor injury requiring stitches and the doctor prescribed an opiate (just in case it turned painful). I went to the pharmacy to fill the prescription (more to supply my emergency medical kit, I have a pretty high tolerance for acute pain and intensely dislike the effect of most heavy duty prescription painkillers, on the other hand given my one experience with morphine in the hospital it's probably good that is not legal, I about wore out the button and it was good there was a timer on it, nothing kills pain like that IME, hammering on that button trying to make the pain stop was a great illustration of what addiction might be like) and there was a problem and they wouldn't fill it. I thought nothing of it, but when I went back to get the stitches removed the topic came up and I mentioned what happened and that it wasn't a big deal. The doctor happily redid the prescription (even after it was clear I would not need it) which I then filled.

    The strange part was the interaction with the doctor. I got a definite vibe from the doctor of concern about drug seeking having been eliminated. In the end I wondered if the paperwork snafu was actually a test of sorts. If I had been drug seeking it is likely I would have called the doctor immediately on being unable to fill the prescription.

    This was ~2009 if that helps calibrate where we were in painkiller prescribing practice.

    P.S. I have a good friend who became dependent on prescription painkillers for a while because of severe recurrent back pain. IIRC it got to the point where the vicious cycle of induced tolerance kicked in. It's a real thing and doctors vary widely in their approaches. The annoying part is we seem to swing between overly strict and overly permissive practice.
  115. @Olorin
    "The Sixties" that you are thinking of when you think of a certain period of time is evidence that you too are colonized by an "alien elite."

    The 1960s in the place where I grew up--sounds like Catholic Union Man and I were practically neighbors, and maybe Jack D too--was not about "free love."

    It wasn't about drugs, or rock and roll.

    It was "deindustrialization." It was race riots.

    Soon after that it was the Wade Dump Fire and the explosion of the Corinthos and refinery fires.

    It was the Asbestos Plague.

    It was massive unemployment and forced busing and neighborhoods turned into slums.

    You are more colonized than you seem to know if you think "Woodstock" was anything other than a marketing invention designed to monetarize a large postwar youth demographic and twist it into thinking of itself as a shopping cohort.

    You are more colonized than you seem to know if you lump everyone of a certain age span into one word, then hold yourself over it.

    Who do you think invented the idea of "the Sixties" and "free love" and all? You think that was a chthonic invention of people born between 1945 and 1960?

    Why the hell do you believe it existed as anything other than a set of degenerate memes?

    How can you call yourself "more right" if you see your elders through (((those homogenizing filters))) which you claim to reject/be smarter than?

    Still, I'm glad younger people are able to talk in a way we didn't have in the Age of Punk. I mean the real punk, not that Clashy crap sold by (((Columbia))).

    http://www.instapunk.com/about.html

    It wasn’t about drugs, or rock and roll.

    It was “deindustrialization.” It was race riots.

    Soon after that it was the Wade Dump Fire and the explosion of the Corinthos and refinery fires.

    It was the Asbestos Plague.

    It was massive unemployment and forced busing and neighborhoods turned into slums.

    Don’t forget the introduction of the designated hitter rule. And the bogus “playoff” four years earlier.

    You are more colonized than you seem to know if you think “Woodstock” was anything other than a marketing invention designed to monetarize a large postwar youth demographic and twist it into thinking of itself as a shopping cohort.

    It was put on by two Jewish boys from Brooklyn. Not that there’s anything wrong with that…

    What I’ve never understood is why my fellow goyim ever though Bob Dylan could sing. I’ve long suspected his fellow Jews feel the same as I do, but keep their mouths shut.

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  116. @Jack D
    We talked about this on another thread, when the subject of A Serious Man came up. Guys like the Coen Brothers were smart enough and self controlled enough that they could go to Hebrew school stoned and still end up as rich and famous movie directors, but the average Joe might not know where to draw the line and might end up losing his job for coming in under the influence or might end up an addict. In the old regime, we just had a hard and fast rule - marijuana is illegal, period. Nobody can have it. This was not pleasing to guys like the Coen Brothers - they said , "that's not fair to me - I can handle drugs in a way that will not ruin my life and I get a lot of pleasure from them." So for every two 140IQ guys like the Coen Brothers maybe there are 10 or 20 homeless people now who couldn't handle that much "freedom".

    Scott Adams comes to mind.

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  117. Anon says:     Show CommentNext New Comment
    @Mr. Anon
    Tucker Carlson has covered this topic some on his show. In a recent show, he recited a remarkable statistic: that the present death rate due to heroin and opioid use (combined) is five times greater than the crack death-rate during the early 90s crack epidemic, and about seven times greater than the heroin death-rate during the early 70s heroin epidemic. (Yes, I don't like the use of the word "epidemic" in this context, but it does have a certain analogous meaning to what is intended, and I can't think of an alternative).

    A heroin scourge in America’s housing projects coincided with a wave of heroin-addicted soldiers brought back from Vietnam, with a cost peaking between 1973 and 1975 at 1.5 overdose deaths per 100,000. The Nixon White House panicked. Curtis Mayfield wrote his soul ballad “Freddie’s Dead.” The crack epidemic of the mid- to late 1980s was worse, with a death rate reaching almost two per 100,000. George H. W. Bush declared war on drugs. The present opioid epidemic is killing 10.3 people per 100,000, and that is without the fentanyl-impacted statistics from 2016. In some states it is far worse: over thirty per 100,000 in New Hampshire and over forty in West Virginia.

    https://www.firstthings.com/article/2017/04/american-carnage

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    • Replies: @Jack D
    The previous epidemics struck mainly at black ghettos. Blacks are only 13% of the population and urban blacks even less. The White Death has spread to every village and hamlet and there are a lot more white people.
  118. @Diversity Heretic
    If this were any other demographic group, it would be cause for a declaration of national emergency. The trend lines on that graph are terrifying.

    My suggestion about another cause is the decline of religious faith that started in the 1960s. I may be projecting a bit, since I turned 18 in 1972 and my family stopped attending church in 1973, but if a person has no transcendental reason to live, and there's no reason to think the material circumstances will improve, death through despair becomes much more likely.

    In the short term, only a religious revival along the lines of The Great Awakening is likely to produce any change.

    Amen to that. Truer words have never been written on this blog, including by our esteemed host, Mr. Sailer.

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  119. @Anon

    A heroin scourge in America’s housing projects coincided with a wave of heroin-addicted soldiers brought back from Vietnam, with a cost peaking between 1973 and 1975 at 1.5 overdose deaths per 100,000. The Nixon White House panicked. Curtis Mayfield wrote his soul ballad “Freddie’s Dead.” The crack epidemic of the mid- to late 1980s was worse, with a death rate reaching almost two per 100,000. George H. W. Bush declared war on drugs. The present opioid epidemic is killing 10.3 people per 100,000, and that is without the fentanyl-impacted statistics from 2016. In some states it is far worse: over thirty per 100,000 in New Hampshire and over forty in West Virginia.
     
    https://www.firstthings.com/article/2017/04/american-carnage

    The previous epidemics struck mainly at black ghettos. Blacks are only 13% of the population and urban blacks even less. The White Death has spread to every village and hamlet and there are a lot more white people.

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  120. I recently broke my leg in a rather painful fashion, a tibial plateau fracture, had to have surgery, pretty painful aftermath.

    I was amazed at how freely my highly reputable and native born orthopedist prescribed opioids. I said I didn’t want the stuff spiked with tylenol, he said sure, I said I wanted more, he said sure.

    It was pretty fun for about 2 weeks but I could see how quickly the addiction was setting in and I immediately quit the stuff cold turkey.

    After only two weeks of admittedly continuous/heavy dosage, I went through a withdrawal, I wouldn’t have thought that possible, but apparently it starts setting in right away.

    I did this without telling my physician and at the next appointment and he was a little put off that I removed myself from this medication without informing him rather than lauding my effort to get off opioids ASAP.

    I contrast this to an accident, extremely life threatening, far worse than the broken leg, that left me in intensive care, great pain, etc back in 1980. They started me on a morphine drip, but went out of their way to be very stinting with amounts, and cut me off completely after only 2 days and on to codeine stuff, and this was well before I even got out of intensive care (or extreme pain for that matter).

    Like night and day difference.

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  121. @Autochthon
    I'm not so sure these interperations are the whole story. Animals, like Rush's "The Trees," is as much wry observation about unchanging human nature and its inevitable madness as it is any kind of advocacy for Marxism; it might even be seen to mock vain egalitarianism.

    Likewise with much of their work not masterminded by Waters – who was obsessed with hating The Man – and even much that was: arch but bemused cynicism about the suits in the music industry, the anguish of the human condition and the importance of striving despite the futility of our efforts for a Utopia, yearning for lost innocence and meaningful connections with our fellow man, the tragedy of war, the existential absurdity of modern consumerism – these strike me as themes of Animals, A Momentary Lapse of Reason, The Dark Side of the Moon, The Division Bell, Wish You Were Here, and even earlier pieces from Meddle and A Saucerful of Secrets (cf., "Fearless").

    The less mature earlier stuff is mostly interesting and talented musical jams with pretty silly or whimsical lyrics – there is no shame in that for a bunch of guys in their twenties.

    David Gilmour famously abstained from drugs his entire adult life after experiencing the horrors of what they did to Syd Barrett, so he was certainly aware of the need for discipline and sensibility. Roger Waters, albeit a musical genius, was always a bit whackadoo: inspired by an image he created of his communist, pacificist father encouraged by the trauma of that father's death in the war, flakily marrying serially (the guy's had four wives, the most recent of which he was married to for all of three years), never playing well with others and being a prima donna about The Final Cut and the band's split, etc..

    I guess my own take is that, yes, Waters seems like kind of a nihilisitic dick, but he wa only one fourth of the band. Mason, Gilmour, and Wright were suprisingly low-key and well-adjusted, as rock stars go, sort of like the guys in Genesis (excepting Gabriel, who was, unsurprisingly, that band's SJW grandstander...).

    (Barrett made himself into a vegetable so early in his career I dunno that he is here or there.)

    I guess I’d have to see examples from the lyrics that make your point re: Animals. It seems to me that the song Sheep (Waters) is not just class envy but homicidal Marxism, or at least that’s my take. Those poor old bleeding hearts and artists who just want to whimsically rip the throats out of the upper classes, that’s when they’re not preventing the fascists from protecting Britain from slow invasion that is.

    The other themes you mention, yes, those are there, my point was about the striving for structure I don’t see much evidence for, at least, nothing they would commit to lyrics, unless I am overlooking something. Musical geniuses, and not just Waters, certainly though.

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  122. @Autochthon
    I'm not so sure these interperations are the whole story. Animals, like Rush's "The Trees," is as much wry observation about unchanging human nature and its inevitable madness as it is any kind of advocacy for Marxism; it might even be seen to mock vain egalitarianism.

    Likewise with much of their work not masterminded by Waters – who was obsessed with hating The Man – and even much that was: arch but bemused cynicism about the suits in the music industry, the anguish of the human condition and the importance of striving despite the futility of our efforts for a Utopia, yearning for lost innocence and meaningful connections with our fellow man, the tragedy of war, the existential absurdity of modern consumerism – these strike me as themes of Animals, A Momentary Lapse of Reason, The Dark Side of the Moon, The Division Bell, Wish You Were Here, and even earlier pieces from Meddle and A Saucerful of Secrets (cf., "Fearless").

    The less mature earlier stuff is mostly interesting and talented musical jams with pretty silly or whimsical lyrics – there is no shame in that for a bunch of guys in their twenties.

    David Gilmour famously abstained from drugs his entire adult life after experiencing the horrors of what they did to Syd Barrett, so he was certainly aware of the need for discipline and sensibility. Roger Waters, albeit a musical genius, was always a bit whackadoo: inspired by an image he created of his communist, pacificist father encouraged by the trauma of that father's death in the war, flakily marrying serially (the guy's had four wives, the most recent of which he was married to for all of three years), never playing well with others and being a prima donna about The Final Cut and the band's split, etc..

    I guess my own take is that, yes, Waters seems like kind of a nihilisitic dick, but he wa only one fourth of the band. Mason, Gilmour, and Wright were suprisingly low-key and well-adjusted, as rock stars go, sort of like the guys in Genesis (excepting Gabriel, who was, unsurprisingly, that band's SJW grandstander...).

    (Barrett made himself into a vegetable so early in his career I dunno that he is here or there.)

    I was hoping for a comment as interesting as yours about Pink Floyd. Thanks!

    Works of art are most important as – works of art, aren’t they? And as musicians, Pink Floyd did turn lots of the 60ies ff. – into song.

    I was out in the spring-woods near the swiss alps for days and days lately (taking photographs), many hours besides a little pond. Very much taken in by the scenery – and nothing fits my feelings better then, than some of the tender and meditative songs of Pink Floyd – they kind of popp up in my head – - and gently disappear after a few seconds. “Grantchester Meadows” (….) “See the splashing of the kingfisher \ flashing to the water…”

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  123. The despair and drugs/alcohol aren’t causes, but symptoms.

    When society despises a class or cultural subgroup they’re pushing a lot of them off a cliff directly and any who are hanging on are left to weaken and fall indirectly.

    Someone above made the comment about Indian reservations, and I think it apt. Less educated whites are the Indians on the US reservation.

    After locking them up and forgetting about them nobody gave a shit if the Indians starved, committed suicide, or drank themselves to death. Nobody would hire them, they lost their pride and their reason for living.

    In the Southwest and in Appalachia both, before the big city cocktail-party virtue signalers got their ways of life shut down with environmental and regulatory laws, you could make a decent living off the land and resources.

    The income statistics are very deceptive in this situation when you can harvest wild game, fish, roots and berries, log trees for firewood and lumber, run big truck gardens, make moonshine, mine gold/silver, etc. – none of it taxable income.

    Before 1961 you could pound four stakes in the ground on any land not reserved for a special purpose for either a mining claim, homestead or trade and manufacturing site. For a whopping $2.50 per acre, you got patent title. Grazing rights, water rights, timber concessions and more – gone now. That’s just one example where lower IQ but motivated people could end up with substantial property holdings on an amazingly low or even nonexistent taxable income.

    Doctors, lawyers, dentists in the cities – no such attack on their livelihoods. At the same time you have feminism working its evil magic, affirmative action, and a plethora of other cultural shifts mentioned above.

    In the poorest of Appalachia you can at least still live in a tin shack without running water and nobody is going to care. Not so in Florida or California where both real estate prices,along with zoning laws and regulations have made it impossible to own a home. The fishing industry isn’t an option anymore for the lower IQ, small-time family fishermen in those places.

    I see drugs and alcohol as symptomatic and not causal in those areas. You are far less susceptible to them when you have opportunity, and that didn’t mean high taxable income until more recently.

    Nationwide though, the loss in manufacturing jobs sure has killed the lower-IQ city whites.

    Nobody gives a shit about these modern day “Indians” so sure, they can waste away before anyone even notices.

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    • Agree: Autochthon
    • Replies: @Dieter Kief
    Joe Bageant saw the white underclass in the Applalachians in decline - and he did notice:

    Deer Hunting with Jesus - dispatches from america's class war

    He' not very strong as far as analysis is concerned - but rich in description.
    And he has a good heart.

  124. If they ever do s biopic of Pink Floyd, they should definitely get Adam Driver (aka Kylo Ren) to play Waters. He’s a dead ringer.

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    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Tom Stoppard's 2006 play "Rock 'n' Roll" features Syd Barrett of Pink Floyd and a lot of 1968 Czech Plastic People of the Universe history, although the truth is that Stoppard was born too early (1937) to care about advanced rock.

    I haven't seen the play but did read it. The first act features a lot of esoteric early Pink Floyd that I wasn't familiar with by title, so for me doesn't really take off on the page until the end of Act I when the Beach Boys' "Wouldn't It Be Nice" is used.

    It remains kind of a remote play until the next to last page when two of the 20 or so characters suddenly fall in love and find happiness. In retrospect, these are exactly the two characters who deserve to fall in love, so it makes for a very happy ending. Then on the last page everybody goes to see Sir Tom's buddy Sir Mick and the Rolling Stones in 1990 Prague. I don't remember which Stones song the play ends on.

    (I suspect the play isn't mounted that often because the payments to song rights holders are severe.)

    Stoppard himself said he had no clue until he got to writing the end that that particular man and woman should fall in love, but as soon as he noticed it, it seemed fated.

  125. @Hapalong Cassidy
    If they ever do s biopic of Pink Floyd, they should definitely get Adam Driver (aka Kylo Ren) to play Waters. He's a dead ringer.

    Tom Stoppard’s 2006 play “Rock ‘n’ Roll” features Syd Barrett of Pink Floyd and a lot of 1968 Czech Plastic People of the Universe history, although the truth is that Stoppard was born too early (1937) to care about advanced rock.

    I haven’t seen the play but did read it. The first act features a lot of esoteric early Pink Floyd that I wasn’t familiar with by title, so for me doesn’t really take off on the page until the end of Act I when the Beach Boys’ “Wouldn’t It Be Nice” is used.

    It remains kind of a remote play until the next to last page when two of the 20 or so characters suddenly fall in love and find happiness. In retrospect, these are exactly the two characters who deserve to fall in love, so it makes for a very happy ending. Then on the last page everybody goes to see Sir Tom’s buddy Sir Mick and the Rolling Stones in 1990 Prague. I don’t remember which Stones song the play ends on.

    (I suspect the play isn’t mounted that often because the payments to song rights holders are severe.)

    Stoppard himself said he had no clue until he got to writing the end that that particular man and woman should fall in love, but as soon as he noticed it, it seemed fated.

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  126. @Autochthon
    By no means do I dismiss out of hand all instances of a legitimate prescription as a gateway to addiction, but most if us make it to at least middle age without chronic problems or even serious injury that would justify prescribed narcotics, yet many addicts are young. They are buying pills from criminals.

    And even those initially taking the drugs with legitimate prescriptions are only able to continue and abuse them if enabled by criminals. Whether those dealers be thugs on the corner named Paco, Taco, or Tyrone, or whether they be unethical physicians named Krishnagupta, Nguyen, and so on isn't awfully relevant once the addicts are in caskets.

    I use those names purposefully: the thugs are not nearly as often Tom or Sally, and the quacks not Drs. Smith and Jones.

    I've had three traumatic injuries in my life that could call for narcotics. For one of them, my good-ole-boy physician in Tennessee told me bluntly that he appreciated my pain but that he does not prescribe such drugs absent extraordinary circumstances, precisely because he cares about his patients. My other physicians were similarly "stingy," and these injuries are severe things from dangerous athletic activities. So when I read about some cat whose addiction began when he "sprained his ankle" or some such minor injury, I am guessing we are dealing with a pretty shady, irresponsible physician – no one should ever even get the opportunity to become addicted to narcotics because he pulled a muscle gardening; it just does not pass the smell test for me.

    I broke my back in the early Oughts and the British-accented (((doc))), who drove an Aston Martin and was at the clinic on some kind of temporary basis, prescribed me opioid painkillers and said: “Don’t worry about taking too much. Whenever you feel the slightest pain, take the maximum dose allowed.”

    He repeated and stressed this advice. It was a creepy vibe. I mean, the son of a bitch did all but rub his hands together.

    Needless to say, I looked askance at the whole business and took only six of those pills total. Extra-strength aspirin and lying in bed being distracted by TV was an effective alternative in my case.

    By the way, the six pills I popped had no discernable palliative effect. But I did feel a weird withdrawal “ache” when time came to take the seventh.

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  127. @Backwoods Bob
    The despair and drugs/alcohol aren't causes, but symptoms.

    When society despises a class or cultural subgroup they're pushing a lot of them off a cliff directly and any who are hanging on are left to weaken and fall indirectly.

    Someone above made the comment about Indian reservations, and I think it apt. Less educated whites are the Indians on the US reservation.

    After locking them up and forgetting about them nobody gave a shit if the Indians starved, committed suicide, or drank themselves to death. Nobody would hire them, they lost their pride and their reason for living.

    In the Southwest and in Appalachia both, before the big city cocktail-party virtue signalers got their ways of life shut down with environmental and regulatory laws, you could make a decent living off the land and resources.

    The income statistics are very deceptive in this situation when you can harvest wild game, fish, roots and berries, log trees for firewood and lumber, run big truck gardens, make moonshine, mine gold/silver, etc. - none of it taxable income.

    Before 1961 you could pound four stakes in the ground on any land not reserved for a special purpose for either a mining claim, homestead or trade and manufacturing site. For a whopping $2.50 per acre, you got patent title. Grazing rights, water rights, timber concessions and more - gone now. That's just one example where lower IQ but motivated people could end up with substantial property holdings on an amazingly low or even nonexistent taxable income.

    Doctors, lawyers, dentists in the cities - no such attack on their livelihoods. At the same time you have feminism working its evil magic, affirmative action, and a plethora of other cultural shifts mentioned above.

    In the poorest of Appalachia you can at least still live in a tin shack without running water and nobody is going to care. Not so in Florida or California where both real estate prices,along with zoning laws and regulations have made it impossible to own a home. The fishing industry isn't an option anymore for the lower IQ, small-time family fishermen in those places.

    I see drugs and alcohol as symptomatic and not causal in those areas. You are far less susceptible to them when you have opportunity, and that didn't mean high taxable income until more recently.

    Nationwide though, the loss in manufacturing jobs sure has killed the lower-IQ city whites.

    Nobody gives a shit about these modern day "Indians" so sure, they can waste away before anyone even notices.

    Joe Bageant saw the white underclass in the Applalachians in decline – and he did notice:

    Deer Hunting with Jesus – dispatches from america’s class war

    He’ not very strong as far as analysis is concerned – but rich in description.
    And he has a good heart.

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  128. @E. Rekshun
    I got my parents to stop complaining to me about how bad things are getting these days because I kept hitting them with “what were you doing in 1968?”.

    My 80-year old father has been doing the same complaining for over 30 years.

    I've been looking for something like this to shut him up, but what am I missing with the comeback - “what were you doing in 1968?” - other than Vietnam and inner-city black riots?

    It’s just a general catchall for them being typical “radicals” back at that time, they were proud of the fact that they marched with “Dr King”, they joined the naacp, burned bras and draft cards and smoked pot and went to woodstock and etc etc etc. They could have stopped this.

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  129. @The True and Original David
    Steve, Ludwig Beethoven (the "van" is spurious) was the second son of seven whose mother was the sixth daughter of a cook. Ludwig's father was an alcoholic music teacher.

    How many Beethovens aren't being born because of all the things Charles Murray laments?

    Admittedly speculative, the theory of white cultural genocide that I'm implying might be something psychometrics/statistics can shine a new or interesting light on. Is there a fresh angle tying together The Bell Curve, Human Accomplishment, and Coming Apart?

    (My hunch is that the inequality produced by forced/accelerated assortive mating in the modern West is a kind of strip mining that will yield legions of administrative state/Egghead McMuffin types with super-high SAT or IQ scores, but no one who can actually think and create. Is this what happened in China?)

    Beethoven’s mother and father, though not exactly hewers of wood or drawers of water, are recognizable middle types and if ravaged by (see all the White Death trends discussed in this thread), would not have lived to create the genius.

    I notice that Charles Murray’s Losing Ground blamed the government for black dysfunction. But when it comes to Beethoven’s people, Murray seems to blame the victim: anything short of mass murder by the Cheka might barely rate as influential and is in any case somehow secondary.

    A genetically gifted people driven to despair by hopelessly dysgenic social policy disincentives should fault their own heretofore not-much-in-evidence “laziness” primarily or exclusively?

    The only consistency here seems to be the view that whites are so gifted that they are uniquely superhuman. But if that is so, why fret about inequality?

    Old conservatives often have a confusion in their thinking which may be described as “personal responsibility” v. “government is bad.”

    [MORE]

    For example, they like to assert that people should stop complaining and get a job: “There is nothing wrong with the economy! America is the land of opportunity, people are just lazy.” Simultaneously, they also like to assert that Obama is a son of a bitch. When you ask them why, they answer: “Because he destroyed the economy!”

    This hopeless dialogue could be spun out to farcical length. “But I thought you said the economy is okay.” “Yes, I did. Any other view is anti-American!” “But you also said that Obama hurt the economy.” “That’s right, big government is evil, it crushes businessess and hard-working people!” “Then why are you morally disapproving of its victims?” “What victims? Success is up to the individual, government has no effect on it. People wouldn’t be victims if they would exercise personal responsibility instead of blaming their problems on others!” “But if big government isn’t blameworthy, then what’s wrong with it?” “It destroyed the economy and ruined people, that’s what’s wrong with it!” “But I thought you said government policy has no effect on success.” “It doesn’t! A good person pulls himself up by his bootstraps and doesn’t blame others, and Washington DC has nothing to do with it!” “So why aren’t you voting for Hillary Clinton?” “Are you nuts? She will kill America!” etc., etc.

    Similarly: “Those poor blackies got screwed by DC. We need to change public policy.” “I agree. And public policy decisions are leading to harm for whites, too.” “Whites? It’s their own fault. They are so smart that if anything bad happens to them, then it must be a failure of personal responsibility on their part. They should pull themselves up by their bootstraps and forget about blaming public policy.” “But isn’t public policy driving dysgenic trends which–” “Oh yes, and in my book I describe a perverse incentive system leading to destabilizing inequality, which in my view is harmful.” “So don’t you think that this incentive system should be mitigated by wiser public policy decisions?” “Look, the real problem is that these fucking townies need to quit smoking cigarettes and stop holding out for jobs above the level of sharecropper.”

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    • Replies: @Formerly CARealist
    But both can be true. Personal responsibility will always be required for success. And the gov't can really make it tough on people trying to get ahead.

    Taxes are a big drain on me personally, but that doesn't mean I can be wasteful with my money and blame gov't. I've still got to be wise and thrifty.
    , @Jack D
    Catholic Union Guy mentions above that he grew up in a blue collar white area where many of the guys were not super smart and not super ambitious (most people aren't), but the American society of that time and place was prosperous enough (at all economic levels, and that included black people too - a lot of Detroit's unionized auto workers were black) that they could get a job at a shipyard or steel mill that was adequate to support a family and live a normal middle class American life with a (modest little row) house and a (slightly rusty used) car (or maybe a little ranch house in Levittown). Now maybe this was not the most pleasant job in the world but all that it required was a willingness to show up on most days and do what you were told. The whole point of Roosevelt's New Deal was to create an environment where the average man could live a decent life even if he wasn't a rocket scientist or an entrepreneur.

    Lincoln said that God must love the common people because he made so many of them. A society needs to be structured to provide (and by provide I don't mean an EBT card) for the average person and not just for the most clever, ambitious 1%. If it doesn't, then the 1% won't be the 1% for long because the other folks are going to get their pitchforks eventually.
  130. @M. Li Zhao
    >Is this what happened in China?

    It happens to any culture that culls the middle of the curve.

    I wonder if what we’re calling the middle isn’t the bloodstock of the truly great.

    No healthy bloom without roots.

    I wonder if hothouses that prize the bloom yet plague the roots are producing healthy blooms and if they can long continue.

    “Culling the middle” is a good phrase.

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  131. @The True and Original David
    Beethoven's mother and father, though not exactly hewers of wood or drawers of water, are recognizable middle types and if ravaged by (see all the White Death trends discussed in this thread), would not have lived to create the genius.

    I notice that Charles Murray's Losing Ground blamed the government for black dysfunction. But when it comes to Beethoven's people, Murray seems to blame the victim: anything short of mass murder by the Cheka might barely rate as influential and is in any case somehow secondary.

    A genetically gifted people driven to despair by hopelessly dysgenic social policy disincentives should fault their own heretofore not-much-in-evidence "laziness" primarily or exclusively?

    The only consistency here seems to be the view that whites are so gifted that they are uniquely superhuman. But if that is so, why fret about inequality?

    Old conservatives often have a confusion in their thinking which may be described as "personal responsibility" v. "government is bad."


    For example, they like to assert that people should stop complaining and get a job: "There is nothing wrong with the economy! America is the land of opportunity, people are just lazy." Simultaneously, they also like to assert that Obama is a son of a bitch. When you ask them why, they answer: "Because he destroyed the economy!"

    This hopeless dialogue could be spun out to farcical length. "But I thought you said the economy is okay." "Yes, I did. Any other view is anti-American!" "But you also said that Obama hurt the economy." "That's right, big government is evil, it crushes businessess and hard-working people!" "Then why are you morally disapproving of its victims?" "What victims? Success is up to the individual, government has no effect on it. People wouldn't be victims if they would exercise personal responsibility instead of blaming their problems on others!" "But if big government isn't blameworthy, then what's wrong with it?" "It destroyed the economy and ruined people, that's what's wrong with it!" "But I thought you said government policy has no effect on success." "It doesn't! A good person pulls himself up by his bootstraps and doesn't blame others, and Washington DC has nothing to do with it!" "So why aren't you voting for Hillary Clinton?" "Are you nuts? She will kill America!" etc., etc.

    Similarly: "Those poor blackies got screwed by DC. We need to change public policy." "I agree. And public policy decisions are leading to harm for whites, too." "Whites? It's their own fault. They are so smart that if anything bad happens to them, then it must be a failure of personal responsibility on their part. They should pull themselves up by their bootstraps and forget about blaming public policy." "But isn't public policy driving dysgenic trends which--" "Oh yes, and in my book I describe a perverse incentive system leading to destabilizing inequality, which in my view is harmful." "So don't you think that this incentive system should be mitigated by wiser public policy decisions?" "Look, the real problem is that these fucking townies need to quit smoking cigarettes and stop holding out for jobs above the level of sharecropper."

    But both can be true. Personal responsibility will always be required for success. And the gov’t can really make it tough on people trying to get ahead.

    Taxes are a big drain on me personally, but that doesn’t mean I can be wasteful with my money and blame gov’t. I’ve still got to be wise and thrifty.

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    • Replies: @The True and Original David
    There were probably more thrifty kulaks than unthrifty.

    Like it or not, explanations of how someone became a loser are often binary in form. Few of the observers are dispassionate enough to apportion 80/20 (or whatever) blame.

    And many true explanations of failure (or success, for that matter) aren't "nuanced" (to use common parlance); looked into deeply enough, there was one mastering cause. Guy was a drunk - or - the govt made it impossible to pursue his profession. Guy spent his life scared to invest - or - the bold took advantage of him. Sometimes as in those examples the arrow of cognition can seem to run either way but one thing in fact preceded the other.

    I think it's 80/20 white genocide v. white suicide; people like Mr. Murray seem to think it's 20/80, or even 100% suicide. I detect a pride thing going on: "we are the captains of our destiny, if we are falling apart, it is because we will it, certainly not because anyone is powerful enough to take us down." Whites alone have agency, in this view; therefore, only whites can be faulted for their fate. Everyone else is more or less let off the hook. "Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do," etc. We're meant to accept and internalize this appalling (coming from mortal men) combination of narcissism, moralism, and masochism. Well, I don't. Refusing to be a goat isn't scapegoating. I didn't steal my own bicycle. Kate Steinle didn't shoot herself to death. A stupid Mexican individual shot her, because a few venal American individuals want immigration law disinforcement. We don't need a struggle session. We need the wall (and e-verify, etc.). American manufacturing wasn't more than decimated because the most productive people on earth aren't productive. It was because of horrendous public policy decisions. And so on.

  132. @Autochthon
    By no means do I dismiss out of hand all instances of a legitimate prescription as a gateway to addiction, but most if us make it to at least middle age without chronic problems or even serious injury that would justify prescribed narcotics, yet many addicts are young. They are buying pills from criminals.

    And even those initially taking the drugs with legitimate prescriptions are only able to continue and abuse them if enabled by criminals. Whether those dealers be thugs on the corner named Paco, Taco, or Tyrone, or whether they be unethical physicians named Krishnagupta, Nguyen, and so on isn't awfully relevant once the addicts are in caskets.

    I use those names purposefully: the thugs are not nearly as often Tom or Sally, and the quacks not Drs. Smith and Jones.

    I've had three traumatic injuries in my life that could call for narcotics. For one of them, my good-ole-boy physician in Tennessee told me bluntly that he appreciated my pain but that he does not prescribe such drugs absent extraordinary circumstances, precisely because he cares about his patients. My other physicians were similarly "stingy," and these injuries are severe things from dangerous athletic activities. So when I read about some cat whose addiction began when he "sprained his ankle" or some such minor injury, I am guessing we are dealing with a pretty shady, irresponsible physician – no one should ever even get the opportunity to become addicted to narcotics because he pulled a muscle gardening; it just does not pass the smell test for me.

    I had a strange experience with an opiate prescription once. I had a minor injury requiring stitches and the doctor prescribed an opiate (just in case it turned painful). I went to the pharmacy to fill the prescription (more to supply my emergency medical kit, I have a pretty high tolerance for acute pain and intensely dislike the effect of most heavy duty prescription painkillers, on the other hand given my one experience with morphine in the hospital it’s probably good that is not legal, I about wore out the button and it was good there was a timer on it, nothing kills pain like that IME, hammering on that button trying to make the pain stop was a great illustration of what addiction might be like) and there was a problem and they wouldn’t fill it. I thought nothing of it, but when I went back to get the stitches removed the topic came up and I mentioned what happened and that it wasn’t a big deal. The doctor happily redid the prescription (even after it was clear I would not need it) which I then filled.

    The strange part was the interaction with the doctor. I got a definite vibe from the doctor of concern about drug seeking having been eliminated. In the end I wondered if the paperwork snafu was actually a test of sorts. If I had been drug seeking it is likely I would have called the doctor immediately on being unable to fill the prescription.

    This was ~2009 if that helps calibrate where we were in painkiller prescribing practice.

    P.S. I have a good friend who became dependent on prescription painkillers for a while because of severe recurrent back pain. IIRC it got to the point where the vicious cycle of induced tolerance kicked in. It’s a real thing and doctors vary widely in their approaches. The annoying part is we seem to swing between overly strict and overly permissive practice.

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  133. @The True and Original David
    Beethoven's mother and father, though not exactly hewers of wood or drawers of water, are recognizable middle types and if ravaged by (see all the White Death trends discussed in this thread), would not have lived to create the genius.

    I notice that Charles Murray's Losing Ground blamed the government for black dysfunction. But when it comes to Beethoven's people, Murray seems to blame the victim: anything short of mass murder by the Cheka might barely rate as influential and is in any case somehow secondary.

    A genetically gifted people driven to despair by hopelessly dysgenic social policy disincentives should fault their own heretofore not-much-in-evidence "laziness" primarily or exclusively?

    The only consistency here seems to be the view that whites are so gifted that they are uniquely superhuman. But if that is so, why fret about inequality?

    Old conservatives often have a confusion in their thinking which may be described as "personal responsibility" v. "government is bad."


    For example, they like to assert that people should stop complaining and get a job: "There is nothing wrong with the economy! America is the land of opportunity, people are just lazy." Simultaneously, they also like to assert that Obama is a son of a bitch. When you ask them why, they answer: "Because he destroyed the economy!"

    This hopeless dialogue could be spun out to farcical length. "But I thought you said the economy is okay." "Yes, I did. Any other view is anti-American!" "But you also said that Obama hurt the economy." "That's right, big government is evil, it crushes businessess and hard-working people!" "Then why are you morally disapproving of its victims?" "What victims? Success is up to the individual, government has no effect on it. People wouldn't be victims if they would exercise personal responsibility instead of blaming their problems on others!" "But if big government isn't blameworthy, then what's wrong with it?" "It destroyed the economy and ruined people, that's what's wrong with it!" "But I thought you said government policy has no effect on success." "It doesn't! A good person pulls himself up by his bootstraps and doesn't blame others, and Washington DC has nothing to do with it!" "So why aren't you voting for Hillary Clinton?" "Are you nuts? She will kill America!" etc., etc.

    Similarly: "Those poor blackies got screwed by DC. We need to change public policy." "I agree. And public policy decisions are leading to harm for whites, too." "Whites? It's their own fault. They are so smart that if anything bad happens to them, then it must be a failure of personal responsibility on their part. They should pull themselves up by their bootstraps and forget about blaming public policy." "But isn't public policy driving dysgenic trends which--" "Oh yes, and in my book I describe a perverse incentive system leading to destabilizing inequality, which in my view is harmful." "So don't you think that this incentive system should be mitigated by wiser public policy decisions?" "Look, the real problem is that these fucking townies need to quit smoking cigarettes and stop holding out for jobs above the level of sharecropper."

    Catholic Union Guy mentions above that he grew up in a blue collar white area where many of the guys were not super smart and not super ambitious (most people aren’t), but the American society of that time and place was prosperous enough (at all economic levels, and that included black people too – a lot of Detroit’s unionized auto workers were black) that they could get a job at a shipyard or steel mill that was adequate to support a family and live a normal middle class American life with a (modest little row) house and a (slightly rusty used) car (or maybe a little ranch house in Levittown). Now maybe this was not the most pleasant job in the world but all that it required was a willingness to show up on most days and do what you were told. The whole point of Roosevelt’s New Deal was to create an environment where the average man could live a decent life even if he wasn’t a rocket scientist or an entrepreneur.

    Lincoln said that God must love the common people because he made so many of them. A society needs to be structured to provide (and by provide I don’t mean an EBT card) for the average person and not just for the most clever, ambitious 1%. If it doesn’t, then the 1% won’t be the 1% for long because the other folks are going to get their pitchforks eventually.

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    • Replies: @The True and Original David
    Yes. And although minimizing Trump's election seems to be people's favorite indoor and outdoor sport, those people are really just whistling past the proverbial graveyard.*


    (*Or should that be whistling Dixie?)

  134. @Jack D
    Catholic Union Guy mentions above that he grew up in a blue collar white area where many of the guys were not super smart and not super ambitious (most people aren't), but the American society of that time and place was prosperous enough (at all economic levels, and that included black people too - a lot of Detroit's unionized auto workers were black) that they could get a job at a shipyard or steel mill that was adequate to support a family and live a normal middle class American life with a (modest little row) house and a (slightly rusty used) car (or maybe a little ranch house in Levittown). Now maybe this was not the most pleasant job in the world but all that it required was a willingness to show up on most days and do what you were told. The whole point of Roosevelt's New Deal was to create an environment where the average man could live a decent life even if he wasn't a rocket scientist or an entrepreneur.

    Lincoln said that God must love the common people because he made so many of them. A society needs to be structured to provide (and by provide I don't mean an EBT card) for the average person and not just for the most clever, ambitious 1%. If it doesn't, then the 1% won't be the 1% for long because the other folks are going to get their pitchforks eventually.

    Yes. And although minimizing Trump’s election seems to be people’s favorite indoor and outdoor sport, those people are really just whistling past the proverbial graveyard.*

    (*Or should that be whistling Dixie?)

    Read More
  135. @Formerly CARealist
    But both can be true. Personal responsibility will always be required for success. And the gov't can really make it tough on people trying to get ahead.

    Taxes are a big drain on me personally, but that doesn't mean I can be wasteful with my money and blame gov't. I've still got to be wise and thrifty.

    There were probably more thrifty kulaks than unthrifty.

    Like it or not, explanations of how someone became a loser are often binary in form. Few of the observers are dispassionate enough to apportion 80/20 (or whatever) blame.

    And many true explanations of failure (or success, for that matter) aren’t “nuanced” (to use common parlance); looked into deeply enough, there was one mastering cause. Guy was a drunk – or – the govt made it impossible to pursue his profession. Guy spent his life scared to invest – or – the bold took advantage of him. Sometimes as in those examples the arrow of cognition can seem to run either way but one thing in fact preceded the other.

    I think it’s 80/20 white genocide v. white suicide; people like Mr. Murray seem to think it’s 20/80, or even 100% suicide. I detect a pride thing going on: “we are the captains of our destiny, if we are falling apart, it is because we will it, certainly not because anyone is powerful enough to take us down.” Whites alone have agency, in this view; therefore, only whites can be faulted for their fate. Everyone else is more or less let off the hook. “Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do,” etc. We’re meant to accept and internalize this appalling (coming from mortal men) combination of narcissism, moralism, and masochism. Well, I don’t. Refusing to be a goat isn’t scapegoating. I didn’t steal my own bicycle. Kate Steinle didn’t shoot herself to death. A stupid Mexican individual shot her, because a few venal American individuals want immigration law disinforcement. We don’t need a struggle session. We need the wall (and e-verify, etc.). American manufacturing wasn’t more than decimated because the most productive people on earth aren’t productive. It was because of horrendous public policy decisions. And so on.

    Read More
  136. @Hunsdon
    Aren't children in and of themselves transcendental reasons to live?

    Aren’t children in and of themselves transcendental reasons to live?

    But if you don’t have religious faith you’re less likely to bother having kids. So it still comes down to a decline in religious faith.

    And in a society in which religious faith is increasingly rare the chances of your kids turning out well inevitably declines.

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  137. @Coemgen
    The drop in church attendance is likely strongly related to the breakup of white ethnic neighborhoods in large cities during the 50s, 60s, and 70s (see white flight. The flight was in response to Black migration from the Deep South to northern cities and the subsequent riots that occurred there. When the riots failed to rout out the more stubborn white urban ethnics, busing was introduced to provide the coup-de-grace.

    Note that the despair of the white ethnics was mentioned in the NYT twenty-years-ago.

    The drop in church attendance is likely strongly related to the breakup of white ethnic neighborhoods in large cities during the 50s, 60s, and 70s

    Seems a bit unlikely. Religion has been in steady decline in the West for a couple of centuries. Much as I dislike diversity I don’t think we can blame it for the decline of religious faith.

    We have to accept that the trashing of white European civilisation has been carried out predominantly by white Europeans.

    We also need to accept that the hierarchies of the major Churches played a large role in the destruction of Christianity, by adopting a policy of abject surrender to liberalism.

    We can destroy our own society very effectively without any help from outsiders.

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  138. @Jack D
    We talked about this on another thread, when the subject of A Serious Man came up. Guys like the Coen Brothers were smart enough and self controlled enough that they could go to Hebrew school stoned and still end up as rich and famous movie directors, but the average Joe might not know where to draw the line and might end up losing his job for coming in under the influence or might end up an addict. In the old regime, we just had a hard and fast rule - marijuana is illegal, period. Nobody can have it. This was not pleasing to guys like the Coen Brothers - they said , "that's not fair to me - I can handle drugs in a way that will not ruin my life and I get a lot of pleasure from them." So for every two 140IQ guys like the Coen Brothers maybe there are 10 or 20 homeless people now who couldn't handle that much "freedom".

    In the old regime, we just had a hard and fast rule – marijuana is illegal, period. Nobody can have it. This was not pleasing to guys like the Coen Brothers – they said , “that’s not fair to me – I can handle drugs in a way that will not ruin my life and I get a lot of pleasure from them.” So for every two 140IQ guys like the Coen Brothers maybe there are 10 or 20 homeless people now who couldn’t handle that much “freedom”.

    Yep, I totally agree. While I still maintain that drug addiction is a choice that people make it’s crazy for a society to encourage such bad choices. We should not only go back to cannabis being totally illegal, we should actually enforce the damned law.

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  139. @anonguy
    If you look at statistics for bad outcomes/dysfunction of all sorts, among young people, drugs/crime/delinquency, there is a very steep rise starting at about 1955 birth years and increasing every year thereafter.

    They are grouped together as one baby boom generation, but the first and second halves are markedly different. The latter baby-boomers are much more like Gen-Xers in many ways.

    They are grouped together as one baby boom generation, but the first and second halves are markedly different. The latter baby-boomers are much more like Gen-Xers in many ways.

    Early Boomers and Late Boomers have absolutely nothing in common. Entirely different life experiences. Late Boomers were the ones who got clobbered by the Oil Crisis and the economy going down the toilet.

    And Late Boomers had a burning hatred for dirty stinking hippies and the whole disgusting hippie sub-culture.

    Late Boomers are indeed very similar to the early (born 1965-1974) Gen-Xers.

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  140. @Desiderius

    Experienced – in oh so many ways…
     
    From the original expert in early mortality from drugs, alcohol, and suicide:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F2zavD9w98E

    “Myths need loss. They thrive on it.”

    (Paul Nelson in his brilliant essay “Bob Dylan”).

    Doing drugs was our way to go to war.

    (Lou Reed)

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