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From my 2011 review of Jared Taylor’s book White Identity: Racial Consciousness in the 21st Century in VDARE:

What are the prospects for white identity politics emerging as a self-conscious, public force in America?

I’d guess: not good.

This is not to say that white identity politics won’t continue to manifest itself de facto. We saw that, for example, with the Tea Parties and the emergence of an overwhelmingly white movement to protect Medicare in 2009.

But, white people aren’t supposed to say: we’re doing this “to promote the general welfare” of “ourselves and our posterity” (to quote the Constitution’s Preamble). Whites aren’t supposed to say that—and they don’t like to, either. They like to come up with some principled reason, such as: the philosophy of Ayn Rand says so.

Thus, the GOP’s bright young man, Paul Ryan, managing to totally miss the point, announced a plan privatizing Medicare. (Older heads in the House GOP are slowly walking that one back.)

Nevertheless, an explicit white identity movement is unlikely to be tolerated. It’s not so much that blacks, Asians, and Hispanics don`t want this to happen. None of these groups are really all that powerful. Blacks tend to be colorful but not too competent; East Asians competent but colorless; Latinos culturally lethargic and unenterprising.

No, the much more serious roadblock to the emergence of white identity politics: more Jews don’t want it to happen than do want it to happen.

Many Jews have strong reasons for their aversion to white identity politics, either irrational (the Cossacks are coming!) or rational (what’s in it for me?).

Perhaps Taylor can persuade enough Jews to get onboard to make white identity respectable in the MSM and thus with the media’s consumers, the public. He’s striven manfully and graciously over the years to make Jews feel welcome in his movement and many Jews have written for American Renaissance.

Recall that neoconservatism emerged in the late 1960s, largely due to Jewish shopkeepers’ fear of black crime and Jewish civil servants’ fear of being fired by black politicians. Brilliant Jewish intellectuals like Nathan Glazer and Norman Podhoretz took their relatives’ complaints seriously.

Still, over time, Jews mostly figured out it was simply easier to move away from blacks and get better jobs where they didn’t have to deal with many blacks. Let other whites deal with them.

Thus Commentary lost interest in complaining about quotas, and neoconservatism morphed into mostly being an Israel Fan Club.

The fundamental question for 21st Century white identity politics is the same as for Armenians, just two or three orders of magnitude greater in media influence: What’s in it for Jews?

Taylor has worked out strong justifications for why a white identity movement would be good for average, and particularly good for below-average, whites. But not many Jews are below the white average.

Jews are generally praised in the press for engaging in Jewish identity politics. So why would they instead want to engage in disreputable white identity politics? What’s in it for them?

My alternative philosophy of “citizenism” proposed attacking identity politics at its most vulnerable points: Affirmative Action quota preferences for Hispanics and Asians. (See the 2005 debate between me and Jared Taylor on VDARE.com.)

Nobody can come up with a good justification for these privileges for immigrant groups. They just free-ride off the anti-white glamour of the 1960s black civil rights movement.

Indeed, there’s no good reason for the “Hispanic” category even to exist in government data. It`s not a race, it’s not an ethnicity, it’s not a linguistic group, it’s just a rent-seeking special privilege. Abolish the category! Once the data isn’t collected anymore, nobody can use it in government lawsuits alleging “disparate impact”.

I did propose conceding permanent quotas for the descendants of American slaves. That’s a high cost, but one we’re likely to pay anyway.

Is my philosophy extolling solidarity among American citizens rather than among whites likely to prove more acceptable to the media gatekeepers that Taylor’s white advocacy?

Sure—in the sense that a two percent probability is twice a one percent probability. You’ll note that, after all these years, I’m still using quotes around “citizenism” because nobody knows what the word is. It hasn’t exactly swept the intellectual world.

This is a pretty depressing way to wrap up. But I do think it’s safe to say that the conventional wisdom will change when it has to change. It probably won`t change until it has to, but it will have to when it has to.

In other words, what historian Hugh Davis Graham called attention to in the title of his 2002 book, Collision Course: The Strange Convergence of Affirmative Action and Immigration Policy in America, can’t go on forever. The mounting “racial ratio“ of nonwhite beneficiaries to white benefactors means the system will inevitably break down under the weight of numbers. At that point, white consciousness could be forced into existence.

In the meantime, we can all be thankful that Jared Taylor has been thinking ahead.

 
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  1. Jefferson says:

    The Left’s extreme hatred on steroids of White people has caused many people who used to see themselves as Americans first and White second, to adopt White identity politics or at least be curious about it.

    Read More
    • Agree: BenKenobi
    • Replies: @J1234

    The Left’s extreme hatred on steroids of White people has caused many people who used to see themselves as Americans first and White second, to adopt White identity politics or at least be curious about it.
     
    Good point, and very true. I do, however, remember a time when being American usually meant being a Caucasian, just as being Japanese or Vietnamese meant being Asian. But you are correct...leftist government/education/immigration policies and the SPLC have created the white identity movement more than anything else.
    , @Tracy
    True, but I think the true elites, the powers that be, see that as a feature and not a bug. The typical SJW on the street would be horrified to learn that his incessant anti-white talk is possibly helping to bring about Nazism or "white identity" politics, but the powers behind the scenes WANT a race war. That's why Soros does what he does. They want conflict and, then, for people to be so fed up with the violence that they willingly give up their guns, opt for a federalized police force or for the UN to come in and clear things up.
    , @NOTA
    It's worse than that--a big chunk of the left has decided to define voting for Trump as support for white nationalism or explicit racism or whatever. They're doing the same routine as some Arab dictator who defines all opposition as Islamic fundamentalist terrorism for PR reasons, and later discovers that he's convinced all the dissenters in his country that they'd better join ISIS or Al Qaida, since they are by definition the only real opposition.

    Racial identity politics is a disaster for the country. But the rhetoric and propaganda in widespread use right now is potentially going to bring us there, despite the fact that this is the last thing those media types actually want.
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  2. JackOH says:

    Steve, I think it may be possible to attack the entirety of the affirmative action scheme if you have the right people with their hearts in the right place.

    The trustees at my local Podunk Tech will receive a report next week showing minority participation in Podunk’s work force. The figure is about 60%, which includes White women. There’ll be casual talk of glass ceilings, pay equity, more aggressive recruiting, and more-must-be-done mumbo-jumbo. Little of that will be taken too seriously, but there’ll also be no challenge whatsoever that tells the trustees that affirmative action amounts to de jure misandry and anti-White racism.

    As I mentioned, you’d need the right people, cool-headed and intelligent, to recognize the goal of ending affirmative action is not to punish Blacks and women, but to restore citizen empowerment and allow justice to be achieved.

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  3. The fatal flaw of white nationalism is its naivety towards class struggle. Now sure, from the white working class point of view white nationalism makes lots of sense. The race with the highest paid working class will tie themselves with the eternal bonds of racial solidarity to the race with the most members of the wealthy classes. But seen from the point of view of rich or even bourgeois whites. why in the hell should the wealthy whites want tie themselves to an arrogant and pale aristocracy of labor when the world is just teeming with docile and cheap non-white labor willing and ready to be exploited and alienated?

    From slavery to the current mass 3rd world immigration mess, wealthy whites have proven time and time again that in many conditions, they certainly prefer employing cheap labor non-whites instead of accepting lower profits while keeping it all racially pure. In short, rich whites are often not mighty white towards white workers!

    The key to getting rich whites to treat working whites fairly is the fear of something worse. It is no accident that the pinnacle rich white fairness towards poor whites was during the height of the Cold War. Poor whites it seemed had “options” to use a game term.

    And so while white identity politics will ultimately fail on the strategic level, there are tactical reasons to embrace it. Citizenism or racially neutral nationalism can indeed work. But the only way to get minorities to give up identity politics is for the majority to start making believable threats to move in that direction. Then establishment figures are called on to denounce white identity politics and are then forced to respond to why they don’t also denounce Jewish, Black, Latino, Asian, or Female identity politics.

    Examples of Jewish identity politics are the plethora of explicitly Jewish political organizations. For example. why can Ben Shapiro denounce white identity politics but not the Jewish version:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Jewish-American_political_organizations

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    • Replies: @ben tillman

    The fatal flaw of white nationalism is its naivety towards class struggle. Now sure, from the white working class point of view white nationalism makes lots of sense. The race with the highest paid working class will tie themselves with the eternal bonds of racial solidarity to the race with the most members of the wealthy classes. But seen from the point of view of rich or even bourgeois whites. why in the hell should the wealthy whites want tie themselves to an arrogant and pale aristocracy of labor when the world is just teeming with docile and cheap non-white labor willing and ready to be exploited and alienated?
     
    This naivete doesn't exist. Nor does any genuine conflict of interest. The interests of the "classes" are essentially aligned.
    , @Jefferson
    "Examples of Jewish identity politics are the plethora of explicitly Jewish political organizations. For example. why can Ben Shapiro denounce white identity politics but not the Jewish version:"

    There are also Irish and Italian political organizations in The U.S. Your beef should be why are there no WASP political organizations in The U.S. Why aren't there more Americans who are extremely proud of their English roots like syronredux? Blame American WASPS for not showing enough solidarity with their ancestral homeland of England.

  4. Gabriel M says:

    White identity is a purely American phenomenon. Marine Le Pen doesn’t need a White identity because she has a French one. Hell, even Hitler didn’t need a White identity because he had German one. The only reason to clutch at straws like white-nationalism is because of the delayed fallout of the fact that America was founded by inconsistent SJWs who owned slaves.

    A better solution for the whole world would just be to dissolve America into tolerably culturally and ethnically homogeneous blocks and then the rest of us can just forget about this proposition nation/racial nationalism dichotomy that America bestowed upon us.

    Even better would be to go back in time and do it in, say, 1850, or at least, 1913.

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  5. sabril says:

    Have white identity politics emerged in countries with much less Jewish influence than the United States? If not, I would guess that something else is the problem. Most likely virtue signalling among elites who don’t want to be seen as “racist.”

    I imagine some people might argue that, even though not present, Jews are subtly dominating the entire world. To this I would point out that (1) there are many countries who openly support anti-Israel NGOs and/or who regularly vote against Israel at the United Nations; it is difficult to square this with Jewish dominance.; and (2) if you seriously believe that Jews are subtly controlling the world, don’t be surprised when you are accused of anti-Semitism.

    Read More
    • Replies: @ben tillman

    I imagine some people might argue that, even though not present, Jews are subtly dominating the entire world. To this I would point out that (1) there are many countries who openly support anti-Israel NGOs and/or who regularly vote against Israel at the United Nations; it is difficult to square this with Jewish dominance.
     
    No, it's not that hard. Yggdrasil published a reader's comment in his essay on Dr Strangelove:

    http://www.whitenationalism.com/cwar/stranglv.htm

    The bureaucratic machine that they rely on, that they think they control, is filled with intelligent people fully capable of acting in furtherance of the goals with which they've been presented and in which they've been indoctrinated. The fact that these are not the true goals of the people in control of them is a fact that they cannot be allowed to become aware of, and that disconnect makes potential for very dangerous mistakes.
     
    Their instructions are to combat white majority power. Assaults on Jewish power in Israel appear to fit within their mission.
    , @Langley
    Is there a Jewish influence in China?
    , @anon

    it is difficult to square this with Jewish dominance
     
    nope

    media dominance doesn't control directly - it works indirectly by manipulating opinion

    US media dominance -> global cultural dominance in the once-white countries outside the Soviet Union

    this dominance has to be unspoken or it wouldn't work so if the media says x is bad then they can't openly say "except Israel"
  6. It would help a lot if the Richard Spencers of the world weren’t doing their nazi-Germany historical recreation society gestures at otherwise respectable conferences.

    Idenititarianism or citizenism… the most important thing is to have a kick-ass marketing department so that blokes in swastika t-shirts don’t get to attend the meeting, even if they do claim they’re just Sex Pistols fans and really like Sid Vicious’ style.

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    • Replies: @Radicalcenter
    Agreed wholeheartedly.
    , @Anon
    "It would help a lot if the Richard Spencers of the world weren’t doing their nazi-Germany historical recreation society gestures at otherwise respectable conferences."

    No, you're missing the point of Alt Right.

    Alt Right does not flow from respectability. It is the enfant terribles of the Right. It has to be edgy. Now, Alt Right has a place for the staid and respectable.

    Kevin Macdonald is rather a diligent pedantic scholar of Jewish history and power. He doesn't have style and flair. He is offering a counter-culture-of-critique.
    He is considered dangerous and heretical(even outrageous) by MSM because his views are so politically incorrect. But he is not a trouble-maker, a bomb thrower, a visionary, or leader.
    Jared Taylor is also a respectable figure. He is well-mannered and dignified in style. But he too is unwelcome and considered dangerous by the MSM for his views that are inimical to standard PC.

    Neither men are looking to be risque, edgy, or dangerous. They are just considered as such because their views deviate so much from the boilerplate of what is Acceptable in the Current Year.

    Same goes for Paul Gottfried. Like MacDonald, he too is an academic type. His book ENCOUNTERS is interesting, but it's more about ideas than action.

    Peter Brimelow used to be a respectable figure, but his views on immigration become increasingly heretical and even 'evil' according to PC as the US became more diverse, PC took over media and academia, and GOP caved to Neocons and 'cucks'.

    Now, the Alt Right has room for such individuals and owes a debt of gratitude(because they kept the fire alive against all odds when their ideas were written off as dustbin of End of History.) Alt Right owes something to those people.

    But they aren't exactly core Alt Right. Elements of dissident right were given no place at the table, not even in Conservatism Inc that eventually purged Buchanan, Derbyshire, and even Steyn.

    So older figures like Macdonald, Brimelow, and Taylor formed an alliance with younger figures like Spencer.

    Also, the MSM in 2015 decided to tie Alt Right with Trump, and it was the media that cast a wide net. Alt Right became everything from Daily Stormer & Andrew Anglin to Milo of Breitbart & Steve Bannon. Some in the media went so far as to say Trump himself is an Alt Right candidate. Ridiculous.
    The core Alt Right has been a movement of the edge, but according to the media, you'd think at least 1/4 of the people who supported Trump were Alt Right. Media played up and exaggerated Alt Right as much as they underplayed Wright & Ayers in 2008.

    Core Alt Right is really a youthful dissident, heretical, theoretic, and revolutionary(even radical) movement made up of a new generation of thinkers and activists who feel they have no place in Conservatism Inc.

    Though the media's definition of Alt Right was too inclusive, it is true enough that there is a great variance among Alt Right figures that range from traditional Christians like Mark Hackard to neo-pagans to aristocratic libertarians, and etc.



    American Conservative Magazine and Taki Mag sort of pointed the way, but TAC is part of Dilbertine Beltway culture, and Taki Mag is more like Alternative Conservatism or Alternative Libertarianism than truly Alt Right, which is far more brazen about race, identity, resistance, and youthful passion.

    Unlike Macdonald, Taylor, and Brimelow who never asked for notoriety or trouble but got them due to PC domination, the Alt Right relishes notoriety, danger, risque politics, mischief, bad boy antics, and a bit of scandal. It goes for white mischief.

    And it is not afraid to be bold, visionary, creative, and daring. It doesn't shirk away from intellectual molotov cocktail-tossing, trolling(sometimes with sadistic glee), fight fire-with-fire-ism, and the sardonic smirk. It's sort of like the French New Wave with trouble-makers like Truffaut, Godard, Chabrol, and others.
    Or like the British Invasion with its Rockers vs Mods thing. Or like punk rock(though I can't stand it). Alt Right is closer to the spirit of the Stones than the Beatles. It is a baiter of the Establishment like young Bob Dylan who speech at Tom Paine award was a riot and who drove the folkies nuts with electric guitar at Newport. It is a pisser on Political Correctness and Globalist Power.
    The fun thing about Mick Jagger was he could play it straight with the press but also the bad boy, the nasty, and the jester. He could to the gentleman, he could do the black, he could do the white doing black, he could do the white doing black doing white. He reminds me of Anthony Michael in WEIRD SCIENCE.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g9GBuciv20A

    So, the Alt Right aspect of NPI conference needed to be edgy. It needed to make a bold gesture that would outrage the MSM. It couldn't be just matter-of-fact. The Alt Right is nothing without a bit of theatrical, hyperbolic, apocalyptic, parodic, ironic, and even a bit sick.

    It's like Kevin Grace describes Mishima's antics. The cult of Mishima owed to notoriety and ambiguity. Mishima wasn't just a writer but a cult figure.

    https://youtu.be/P0ZvYb-7Lhw?t=5m13s

    Alt Right is into real ideas. It is about honest and courageous discussion of race, identity, history, and social reality, far more so than the media and academia, though I suppose a world controlled totally by Alt Right could lead to its PC repressions.
    At the moment, it is the most daring, courageous, and honest intellectual movement in America. It may not have the most erudite thinkers or the most intelligent people(on the level of Pinker and Ivy League types), but they make up for it with boldness and courage seen almost nowhere else where PC dominates from far left to Conservatism Inc.

    Also, Alt Right isn't only alt to Conservatism Inc & GOP but alt to 14/88 and Neo-Nazism, the Hollywood fantasy of the KKK. To be sure, Alt Right has connections with both Conservatism Inc and 14/88. Alt Right is close to Brimelow whose site features Ann Coulter who supports politicians of GOP. And there are some murky connections between Alt Right and 14/88 via borderline figures like Greg Johnson and Alex Kurtagic.
    But then, even some non 14/88 elements of Alt Right love to play with neo-Nazi memes just to piss off the media and academia --- and teachers pets --- that throws fits and tantrums all the time. If MSM sees fantasy KKK at Oberlin and Nazi-rapists at UVA, why not play along and provoke them with a Pepe the 'nazi' frog? Sometimes, hilarity ensued when college professors began to give lectures about Pepe as a 'hate symbol'. They have no idea how much they got trolled. In this our Age of the Trigger, it is irresistible not to TRIGGER the media and respectable establishment with some outrage. It's like bad boy French Right of the 1950s that did outrageous things, like in the scene in LES COUSINS where a French youth romanticized a Nazi soldier lost in France.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zl-WMxXImI8

    http://www.newwavefilm.com/about/french-new-wave-politics.shtml

    60s Counterculture had its serious thinkers and activists, but it also had its shock troops, jesters, clowns, provocateurs. It got a lot of attention but some of that theatricality.
    If Alt Right had thus far been ONLY a respectable movement about think pieces and staid conferences, it would not have made any splash on a culture that looks for the Outrage of the Week.

    And we have to give Spencer a lot of credit. Not only did he coin the term but he brought together and orchestrated different personalities in both continents.
    And let's not forget he was arrested in Hungary(of all places) because the Globalist masters fingered him and forced even conservative Orban to arrest him. Despite having done no wrong --- Spencer's sin was bringing together European patriots --- , he was banned from EU for several years. How many people were willing to go through all that? Also, unlike many Alt Rightists, he put himself out there, and he was even hounded in his place of residence in Montana.

    Given his presentation and style, I think Spencer could have gone far in politics. Had he played it safe and respectable like Mitt Romney, he could have been chosen for political office or public face of some Neocon outlet. He is smart and presentable, which a lot of political thinkers and activists are not.
    But he didn't take the 30 pieces of silver. He didn't do the Jack Hunter thing, the guy who went from being the Southern Avenger to the Southern Fried Chicken.

    Also, Spencer was smart enough to find the chink in the establishment armor. American Renaissance conferences were canceled in private venues due to terrorist and financial threats, and of course, the MSM ignored this repression of freedom and assembly. And even Conservatives were mum and offered no moral support since they'd caved to Neocons and PC. Spencer however realized that the safest place for alternative voices was in the belly of the beast. The Reagan building. He's been very savvy about those things.

    Also, I don't hold it against Spencer that he's a Germanophile(but he also seems to be a Russophile) and that he admires certain positive attributes of National Socialism. I think any honest person would admit National Socialism couldn't have gained power and popularity had it been all bad. Of course, its evil side was very evil and led Germany to destruction. But it is possible to separate the wheat from the chaff. It's like Joachim Fest said in his very critical and damning biography of Hitler. Had Hitler died after he took Sudetenland, he would have gone down as one of Germany's greatest leaders.

    Spencer's blindspot is that he isn't nearly as concerned as he should be about the dark evil side of National Socialism. I don't believe for a moment that he is a Hitler-lover; still, his outlook is visionary and prophetic, and this makes him somewhat Wagnerian and 'Nietzschean' in his view of history, and he sometimes gets carried away with the Future Is Ours rhetoric that may seem a bit supremacist-ish. I tend to prefer the humanist model because hubris always leads to nemesis and demise.
    Spencer's association with Kurtagic(who is really like a Himmler-figure) is troubling. I can always spot pathological Himmler-ish type. (Anglin is like a clown version of Streicher, and no one takes him seriously.) Anyway, I think Spencer's camaraderie with Kurtagic has less to do with ideology than Kurtagic's sense of reach, a futurism peering deeper into the realm of the possible.

    Whatever Spencer's feelings about National Socialism may be, he is not a mindless fanboy of Naziesquery that Matthew Heimbach is. Indeed, Spencer's banning of Heimbach and Parrott a year ago at the NPI conference signals real ideological divide.

    Besides, the media have no credibility after its indulgence of Ferguson riots, BLM lunacy, black & PC thuggery on colleges(esp at Mizzou but also at Duke), cop killings, silence about Hillary & Obama's mass murders in Middle East, and etc.
    And how dare Jewish power bitch about racial supremacism when AIPAC strongarms all politicians to continue the support of Israel's Occupation of West Bank. And isn't Jewish Globalist animus toward Russia predicated on the perception that Russians are a bunch of inferior drunken Slavs undeserving of all the great resources of Russia that should really fall into the hands of globalist oligarchs?
    Also, the HAMILTON's casts behavior toward Mike Pence was downright disgusting. It violated all decency and protocol. Being black or proggy means never having to say you're sorry.
    And Spencer's supposed 'hail' salute is NOTHING compared to MSM's non-stop hounding about Trump as 'literally hitler' and 'fascist' for a whole year. If indeed MSM is correct, it means someone should assassinate Trump since we've all been led to believe that Hitler should have been killed(even in the cradle) and it was fun, fun, fun to see Gaddafi sodomized and lynched to death. If Trump is indeed Hitler, the logic would indicate he deserves the same fate. The fact that the media can go on after such behavior is the real scandal. Besides, if any racial hatred is permissible in the US, it is anti-white hatred, and there were so many examples of this in the anti-white violence at Trump rallies where men and women were bloodied in the face. Trump supporters didn't shut down a single Hillary or Sanders rally. Sanders' worst opposition came from BLM. But Hillary thugs shut down Trump's rally in Chicago. And after the election, Proglodytye thugs went about smashing several cities for several nights. But according to MSM, the great horror is Spencer's Hail remark. MSM needs to be trolled. What a joke.

    I don't defend everything Spencer did, but I think we should stand by him because he's been out there, paid his dues(especially in Hungary and EU as a whole), gave up what could have been a lucrative career in politics & punditry for his true convictions, and devoted his life to the cause of his people.
    To focus so much on this 'hail' thing is to miss the bigger picture. Spencer isn't just some loser-dork neo-nazi basement dweller who never would have amounted anything.
    He has the image and smarts to have been someone in Conservative Inc. Had he played his cards right, the GOP establishment would have appointed him for some institute or groomed him for political office. He has charm and likability. Even progs who loathe him say there's something appealing about him.
    But, he gave all of that up because, unlike the Romneys, Grahams, Cottons, and Gowdies of the world, he chose not to sell his core ideas and dreams for 30 pieces of silver.

    It's like Mr. Blonde, crazy as he is, has been utterly moral in his loyalty to the crew.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ljjRZe6g5EM

    I don't care how the media spin the HAIL thing. Spencer has done more than most to further the Alt Right. He not only wrote think-pieces --- any blogger can do that --- but organized meetings, brought people together, and met with various media outlets to explain things. It took a lot of will, nerves, and resolve, especially as the entire power structure from academia, media, and politics are no-go zone for people like him.

    Worse, even when Spencer played by the rules, the powers-that-be were out to destroy him. Though he didn't violate any terms, he was taken off Twitter. And National Review cheered the decision like the worthless cuck-zine that it is. Of course, NR didn't come to his defense when he was arrested in Hungary. Incidentally, the very Hungary that banned the White Identity meeting hosted a Jewish Interest Meeting.

    Also, Spencer doesn't take things too personally. He is able to see the bigger picture. He had every reason to feel bitter and betrayed by Viktor Orban, but he supported Orban who defended his nation from Muslim and African invaders. He let bygones be bygones for the greater good.

    And Spencer surely understands why Trump has to now distance himself from the Alt Right. Trump now has to be respectable. Trump played the 'reckless' maverick to rouse up energy and interest to win the election. He took a huge gamble and won. But now he has to turn his back on the Alt Right to be leader of the country.
    It's like the ending of CHIMES AT MIDNIGHT and BROADWAY DANNY ROSE. It's the nature of the game. When the players finally win or make it, they turn their backs on their supporters to shmooze with the men of power and privilege.

    https://youtu.be/wm1lJQzCxLo?t=2m10s

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nHxzEh2qxdQ

    But then, for the Alt Right to remain a vanguard movement, it has to remain 'dangerous' and go where no one wants to go. Though THE FOUNTAINHEAD has a Hollywood ending, it is right that SOMEONE has to be willing to be like Howard Roark and never compromise core principles.

    Alt Right must carry the cross. It comes with the territory of playing the vanguard role.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ipJDP_B3iEE
    , @Eastside School
    @MichaelRolls yeah, those were Jews doing the Seig Heil salute
  7. Jason Liu says:

    Are you sure? There’s still a lot of white SJWs in South Africa, you know.

    No, the much more serious roadblock to the emergence of white identity politics: more Jews don’t want it to happen than do want it to happen.

    How’s that? Jews are just people. They can be defeated, undermined, persuaded, etc. You read white nationalists too long and you start believing Jews are some sort of insurmountable ubermensch.

    I think there are more moderately conservative Jewish men than there are insane Jewish communists. They’re just not willing to put their Jewishness behind their politics. Doesn’t have to be that way.

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    • Replies: @G Pinfold
    I'm not sure what your comment on white SJWs in South Africa was meant to convey.
    Google the Rivonia Trial and get a load of Mandela's co-accused.
  8. Bbb says: • Website

    I actually see a civil war in the future between WN and the altright, and can see little way to square to circle because both ideas are mutually incompatible and one must die for the other to live.

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  9. Tulip says:

    Some scholars talk about an ethnic contract between ethnic groups that allows for stable, relatively non-violent relationships between ethnic groups. What preserves the ethnic contract is, of course, the fact that there is an ethnic majority that will support the ethnic contract.

    One of the interesting and significant consequences of a demographic shift in the ethnic balance of a country is it politically nullifies the ethnic contract. Moreover, because politics is about perceptions and anticipation, the perception of an imminent demographic shift in the ethnic balance of a country is sufficient in itself to nullify the ethnic contract.

    What we are witnessing with the rise of Trump and the Alt-Right is the rooster of the Hart-Celler Act of 1965 coming home to roost. The ethnic contract in America is in the process of rapidly unravelling. On one hand, this means opportunities for all, but it also means danger to all. I think the possibilities run from Nazi Germany to Zimbabwe, with all points in between. Further, just because there was an ethnic contract previously, doesn’t mean that the various ethnic groups involved will be able to reach a new contract. In other words, the possibility of a protracted period of ethnic civil war is on the horizon.

    I frankly not only fail to see anything good for the Jews in this prospect, but I fail to see anything good for anyone, save those who find the idea of violent struggle (rassenkampf) in the name of ethnonationalist ideology appealing. What I don’t get is that one would presume that the CIA or someone in the Defense Department would have some decent intelligent analysts who would be advising the government that they are unravelling the social order in a potentially dangerous and destructive manner.

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  10. Bbb says: • Website

    I do not see how there are any realistic prospect of peace between the altright and WN when the disagreement is not about whether flat taxation or progressive taxation, or whether there should be income tax at all, or the political role of women in a white state, or whether 1/8 Asians or native Americans or octoroons, or quarter Jews should be considered white, or even whether ethnic persians and pashtuns, or even some Arabs should be considered white, all of which has some room for horse trading, the core disagreement is on the very issue of white preservation itself, citizenists see white preservation as something which is either not that important, or something that is secondary only to loyalty to the state, while WNs see white presevationism and the formation of a white ethnostate as the alpha and omega of all other issues, and the preservation of the state depends on whether this serves the interests of white posterity. Therefore I see do not see any middle ground, and so citizenism and white nationalism cannot exist in the same territory, and one must be crushed for the other to live, and from the perspective of the citizenist any sort of identity politics, including white identity politics must be crushed in order to preserve to loyalty of the citizenry to the state.

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  11. Luke Lea says: • Website

    So “citizenism” doesn’t fly. Then how about a word that denotes the nation as a whole, understood as all the people in the country who make up the nation? Nationalism, neo-nationalism, liberal nationalism, democracy, democratic liberalism, liberal democratic nationalism . . .

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anon
    Americanism vs Atlasism

    Why should Americans carry the burden of the world?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlas_(mythology)#/media/File:Atlas_Santiago_Toural_GFDL.jpg
    , @bored identity
    The already existing term Americanism, as a loaded version of citizenism, could be an acceptable solution for a good sixty percent of the US population.

    It provides a highly resistant semantic PeeCee-proof coating for the set of ideas to which even the most eloquent talmudoids will have to deal with an extreme prejudice in order not to reveal their obvious despise for the very same cultural host that not only provided a thriving incubator, but literately secured their physical survival during the previous century.

    Keep in mind that the usage of an "America First" slogan didn't harm Trump's presidential run a zilch- regardless of the relentless paranoia of the usual suspecting collective-memorists who worked overtime to j'accuse Donald of allegedly poltergeisting the Spirit of St. Louis in their prosaic shabbos afternoons.
    , @Luke Lea
    Instead of citizenism how about "citizens first"? As in, are you a citizens firster? Better than Americans first or America first because it will work in other countries as well as here. Doesn't sound chauvinistic.
  12. Anonymous says: • Website • Disclaimer

    And Jared Taylor and Richard Spencer are heretics who believe that Jews are white, and Richard Spencer is married to a Eurasian.

    Read More
  13. Fortunately I think that the idea of “media gatekeepers” is obsolete in the age of Trump. I’m not sure the American public is quite ready for explicit White identity politics, but I think we’re almost there. The gatekeepers are currently shell-shocked and I don’t see them ever recovering from this crushing defeat.

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    • Replies: @NOTA
    I agree that the media gatekeepers are losing prestige almost as quickly as they're losing money. But the resistance to white identity politics is driven far more by the widespread belief that they're either evil or a path to wrecking the nation--a belief common among whites.
  14. Anonym says:

    You’ll note that, after all these years, I’m still using quotes around “citizenism” because nobody knows what the word is. It hasn’t exactly swept the intellectual world.

    Reddit has been using the term “civic nationalism” to denote the same thing – independently invented. It’s a response I think to the alt-right brouhaha and the WN issue. I still prefer “citizenist” for chauvinist reasons, as you would expect – I’m a partisan iStevist. American nationalism is another term used.

    But the reality is, white identity is an idea whose time has come. “Asian pride = good, Black pride = good, White pride = racist Nazi xenophobe” is resonant. White people understand fair, and by the same token, unfair. Brexit, Trump, our elected leaders may turn tail and wilt when they are asked to disavow (Recant!), but we decide elections. Those votes that were dormant since Reagan are on the table again. And at least as far as pre-election Trump was concerned, he was the comment section incarnate. Comment sections weren’t like that in 2006.

    Can we not have a citizenist government and a white identity movement at the same time that gets a seat at the table in say, media discussions?

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  15. bomag says:

    One problem here is that Whites have been completely out-triangulated by the victim advocacy group system. There are hundreds (thousands?) of groups like La Raza; Mexican-American Legal Defense Fund; CAIR; NAACP; etc., but absolutely nothing mainstream for Whites. Thus we get things like the New Black Panthers spewing complete anti-White propaganda with no push back.

    The refrain is that Whites have to give stuff away to make the Other happy, but of course we are seeing that the more you give away, the more the other side wants.

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  16. George says:

    I thought the veteran’s preference mostly neutralized affirmative action. Affirmarive action may not exist any more. Of course this may require Iraqistan to go on in perpetuity.

    Veterans preference in federal hiring: Is it too strong?

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/powerpost/wp/2016/10/10/veterans-preference-in-federal-hiring-is-it-too-strong/

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    • Replies: @Radicalcenter
    Not even close to true, unfortunately. There are far, far more white people who have no veteran preference and find it increasingly and unduly difficult to get hired or promoted by corporations and governments alike.

    Moreover, the vets preference helps African and Latino us soldiers when they leave the armed forces, too, and that is no small number of people.
  17. Nzdf says: • Website

    Let me ask you people this simple question. Do you think Trump will tolerate it if his white employees suddenly demand their own separate dining rooms, offices, or that they associate with whites only? If not, what makes you think the Trump will tolerate any sort of white identity politics or attempt to form a White Volksstaat? What makes you think that his response to white nationalists will not make ruby ridge and waco look like a picnic? And all of his grandchildren are eligible to make aliyah by blood, what makes you think that his foreign policy will not be extremely pro-zionist?

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    • Replies: @anon
    Trump is a civic nationalist (aka citizenist).

    The media are lying about him because their owners want to keep NAFTA.
  18. JohnnyD says:

    “Trumpism” is basically “citzenism” but the left and media insists it’s “white nationalism.” I’ve yet to find any statements by Trump, Bannon, or even Sessions, where they talk about whites as a collective group with their own interests. Trumpism is only white nationalism in the sense that it’s not openly hostile towards whites. A lot of this silliness is self-projection, considering that liberalism/leftism encourages stuff like black nationalism and La Raza.

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  19. Dr. X says:

    In other words, what historian Hugh Davis Graham called attention to in the title of his 2002 book, Collision Course: The Strange Convergence of Affirmative Action and Immigration Policy in America, can’t go on forever. The mounting “racial ratio“ of nonwhite beneficiaries to white benefactors means the system will inevitably break down under the weight of numbers. At that point, white consciousness could be forced into existence.

    Exactly so. One of the most appalling things about immigration (both legal and illegal) from brown and black Third World countries is that immigrants are given preferential treatment over native born whites for jobs and university admissions.

    I think that affirmative action is a blatant perversion of the Fourteenth Amendment and obviously illegal on the face of it, but nonetheless the Supreme Court has upheld it on numerous occasions. But the idea the children of illegal aliens from Mexico will be absolutely given preferential treatment over native born whites due to having Hispanic surnames and brown skin ought to have whites rioting in the streets. (Instead, liberal whites are rioting on behalf of the illegals who are displacing them. How insane is that?)

    By the time whites figure this out, they will indeed be a dispossessed minority in their own country and by then it will be too late.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Jefferson
    " (Instead, liberal whites are rioting on behalf of the illegals who are displacing them. How insane is that?)"

    The White Liberal rioters in Portland are lazy bums. They benefit off of illegal immigration because than they don't have to do those undesirable blue collar jobs that illegals do like changing the bed sheets at the local Ramada in Portland and painting houses for example.

    Whites in Portland do not have a strong work ethic like Whites in Flyover Country states like West Virginia and Ohio who bust their asses working in coal mines and working as plumbers for example.

    White privilege applies to Whites in Portland way more than it applies to Whites in Flyover Country.

  20. NickG says:

    For whites and identity politics, if you can’t beat those that engage in it – and it seems clear that you can’t – the sooner you join them, the better, or else you will get screwed over, big time.

    Any form of affirmative action involves discriminating against those that do not fit the favoured group’s profile – example from today.

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  21. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer

    I go back and forth between here and mainstream media.
    It’s dizzying, and needs the mind’s translation module constantly on.

    I guess when you say “White identitarianism” you mean what the head of one of those famous organizations fighting against the powerful who harass the weak and defenseless, has called “nativist racism” and “white supremacy”?

    I’ve read on a reputable blog that Taylor is gathering fascists and Nazis and a new Nazi era is dawning.

    Can you confirm, Sailer?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Still Anonymous
    "I’ve read on a reputable blog that Taylor is gathering fascists and Nazis and a new Nazi era is dawning."

    What blog?
    , @donut
    "I’ve read on a reputable blog that Taylor is gathering fascists and Nazis and a new Nazi era is dawning." One can only hope .
    , @donut
    I would have to guess that Spencer is a a fucking progressive troll , as you all must know the Donut is a hope to die racist and Anti- Semite and I would never poison our cause with some shit like this . Perhaps you may be able to help me with this other problem I have found myself with at this stage of my life with only 7-8 friends : four are white and 3 are Black and one is Chinese . The main thing is they are all Americans with American values . As you can imagine this makes it very difficult to maintain my racism . Dear Ann , what to do ?
  22. countenance says: • Website

    The nub of your argument is:

    Citizenism, because, unlike WNism, the Jews won’t hate it.

    All I can say is that the citizenist-based Trump candidacy has mostly proven your theory wrong.

    Read More
    • Replies: @IHTG
    Judging by the comment about percentages, clearly his argument is "they'll hate it less".
    , @Opinionator
    Steve's subtle argument is that the jews consider solidarity among Americans slightly less intolerable than solidarity among Whites. (See below.) For those of us who wish to hang on to our country, presumptively we should play the odds.

    Is my philosophy extolling solidarity among American citizens rather than among whites likely to prove more acceptable to the media gatekeepers that Taylor’s white advocacy?

    Sure—in the sense that a two percent probability is twice a one percent probability. You’ll note that, after all these years, I’m still using quotes around “citizenism” because nobody knows what the word is. It hasn’t exactly swept the intellectual world.

  23. Anon7 says:

    I agree with John Derbyshire – white people are too darned nice.

    This past weekend, I visited friends in the little Wisconsin town of Oconomowoc, population 15,000 and about 97% white folks. Nicest people you’d ever meet. I can’t even believe that they need police officers, other than to offer you a hand if your car got stuck. After my consciousness-raising here and at Radio Derb, I found myself thinking “They’re doomed.”

    This self-effacing, hard-working nature, essential to our national success, is undoubtedly genetic in nature. If Jews were as smart as they think they are, they’d work to conserve it.

    The portion of Donald Trump’s support that is silent is important. He needs to continue giving it a voice, because based on what I was seeing in Oconomowoc, it’s not going to speak up for itself, regardless of whether you call it white identitarianism or citizenism. I think it’s genetic.

    Read More
    • Replies: @EdwardM
    Great point, and I agree that this is the crux of the problem. Basically, white -- especially Anglo-Saxon -- people live by Judeo-Christian/Western values of individualism, honesty, fair dealing, meritocracy, treating everyone with respect by default. Essentially the Golden Rule.

    Having lived and done business in non-Western countries, whether they are basically civilized (China and Japan), not (the Arab world and the Indian subcontinent) or partially (Turkey, Israel, Latin and Slavic countries to an extent), I never ceased to be astonished at the extent to which the Golden Rule is simply not the driving force in society. These places are mostly corrupt and thuggish as a result. You're a sucker for presuming that the guy across the table is approaching his interaction with you in good faith.

    We could engage in a chicken-and-egg argument about why these societies are the way they are. Clearly U.S. culture has successfully integrated some groups that are not too far away from our ideals (e.g., Italians and eastern Europeans who came before the 1960s), but our more recent experience as well as western Europe's shows why we are doomed.

    People who come to the U.S. knowing how to navigate society in Pakistan, Jordan, Indonesia, or Ethiopia will be better equipped to succeed in the America of the future. Whites are being steamrolled. The concept of "citizenism" could be a good description of the required response.
  24. This is the unique American conundrum: How to identify ourselves in a nation of mixed peoples.

    I can think of no one better than Steve to address this.

    Citizenism is the way. Everyone just needs to admit and accept the fact that whiteness and goyness are essential ingredients. It’s like chicken soup: there are herbs and spices, but the theme is chicken. We all love the herbs and spices, and we don’t want our soup without them, but they must work in concert with the chicken!

    Simple concepts like this are hard for people, en masse to understand — especially when there are “special” groups with loud voices who push contrary ideas they think are in their own interest. Again, Steve addresses this part of the problem in a tasteful and realistic manner that I think should be immune to the old “anti-……..” accusations.

    Put it all in your book, Steve.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Chrisnonymous
    If Jews are herbs and spices, who gets to be the matzah ball?
    , @Bsbs
    Doesn't that sound like true white supremacism? Everybody must bow down to white culture, I think WN just want to be left alone in their own safe space. What you are proposing sounds like Arabia actually, and how Yemenis range from octoroon to quadroon, and how 30 percent of the maternal line in Yemenis is sub Saharan African.
    , @Barnard

    Simple concepts like this are hard for people, en masse to understand — especially when there are “special” groups with loud voices who push contrary ideas they think are in their own interest.
     
    What is the argument that is going to convince them to give up victim status? Take the Hispanic example Steve makes above, it is simply a rent seeking classification. Do you think people who use will give up for the greater good?
    , @ChrisZ
    The corollary to Buzz's chicken soup analogy is that without the chicken, the "soup" would be just water with spices: unsatisfying, not very nutritious, and appetizing only to people who've never tasted the real thing.
    , @Opinionator
    I like the chicken soup metaphor.
    , @Hunsdon
    Like Opinionater, I agree with Buzz.
    , @George
    So the chicken is supposed to sacrifice all for the greater good of the soup, and to the benefit of only the people dining. Isn't that the plot of one of Orwell's books. All I see is unalloyed bolshevism.
  25. @Buzz Mohawk
    This is the unique American conundrum: How to identify ourselves in a nation of mixed peoples.

    I can think of no one better than Steve to address this.

    Citizenism is the way. Everyone just needs to admit and accept the fact that whiteness and goyness are essential ingredients. It's like chicken soup: there are herbs and spices, but the theme is chicken. We all love the herbs and spices, and we don't want our soup without them, but they must work in concert with the chicken!

    Simple concepts like this are hard for people, en masse to understand -- especially when there are "special" groups with loud voices who push contrary ideas they think are in their own interest. Again, Steve addresses this part of the problem in a tasteful and realistic manner that I think should be immune to the old "anti-........" accusations.

    Put it all in your book, Steve.

    If Jews are herbs and spices, who gets to be the matzah ball?

    Read More
    • Replies: @You Can't Buy Me Hot Dog MAN!
    The WeeABoos Chris! Jus' like you! They will saves us allll.........

    Trump will looosee...whahhahahahhaahhahah.....

    We all have dreams, bro! Argue wit the ALt-RT on da internet!!

    https://youtu.be/TBfWKmRFTjM

    , @Buzz Mohawk
    I thought about matzah ball soup when I wrote this.

    You see, my wife is an Eastern European goy who works magic in the kitchen. She has taught me that so-called "Jewish" foods, like matzah ball soup, are really just foods that she grew up with and cooks for me.

    The Jews lived in certain parts of Europe and were part of the culinary history. Chicken soup, matzah ball soup, etc. It's all a big, delicious mix over there, and every culture claims the same things as its own. Every language has its own name for the same foods. Every people will proudly state that "this is our food."

    Sure, there are specific things to each culture, and variations. Vive la difference.

    Pretty funny, and harmless if you ask me.

  26. Anon says: • Disclaimer
    @Luke Lea
    So "citizenism" doesn't fly. Then how about a word that denotes the nation as a whole, understood as all the people in the country who make up the nation? Nationalism, neo-nationalism, liberal nationalism, democracy, democratic liberalism, liberal democratic nationalism . . .

    Americanism vs Atlasism

    Why should Americans carry the burden of the world?

    Read More
    • Replies: @CK
    ""... what would you tell him to do?"
    ...
    I would tell him to shrug."
    ZFG.
    Prometheus and Sisyphus could then dribble it up the hill to the vultures for them to peck.
  27. @Luke Lea
    So "citizenism" doesn't fly. Then how about a word that denotes the nation as a whole, understood as all the people in the country who make up the nation? Nationalism, neo-nationalism, liberal nationalism, democracy, democratic liberalism, liberal democratic nationalism . . .

    The already existing term Americanism, as a loaded version of citizenism, could be an acceptable solution for a good sixty percent of the US population.

    It provides a highly resistant semantic PeeCee-proof coating for the set of ideas to which even the most eloquent talmudoids will have to deal with an extreme prejudice in order not to reveal their obvious despise for the very same cultural host that not only provided a thriving incubator, but literately secured their physical survival during the previous century.

    Keep in mind that the usage of an “America First” slogan didn’t harm Trump’s presidential run a zilch- regardless of the relentless paranoia of the usual suspecting collective-memorists who worked overtime to j’accuse Donald of allegedly poltergeisting the Spirit of St. Louis in their prosaic shabbos afternoons.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Opinionator
    It provides a highly resistant semantic PeeCee-proof coating for the set of ideas to which even the most eloquent talmudoids will have to deal with an extreme prejudice in order not to reveal their obvious despise

    Please elaborate on why?
  28. Bsbs says: • Website
    @Buzz Mohawk
    This is the unique American conundrum: How to identify ourselves in a nation of mixed peoples.

    I can think of no one better than Steve to address this.

    Citizenism is the way. Everyone just needs to admit and accept the fact that whiteness and goyness are essential ingredients. It's like chicken soup: there are herbs and spices, but the theme is chicken. We all love the herbs and spices, and we don't want our soup without them, but they must work in concert with the chicken!

    Simple concepts like this are hard for people, en masse to understand -- especially when there are "special" groups with loud voices who push contrary ideas they think are in their own interest. Again, Steve addresses this part of the problem in a tasteful and realistic manner that I think should be immune to the old "anti-........" accusations.

    Put it all in your book, Steve.

    Doesn’t that sound like true white supremacism? Everybody must bow down to white culture, I think WN just want to be left alone in their own safe space. What you are proposing sounds like Arabia actually, and how Yemenis range from octoroon to quadroon, and how 30 percent of the maternal line in Yemenis is sub Saharan African.

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  29. 1/ Every year in Boston since 1737 (since 1762 in NYC) there’s been a St Patrick’s Day parade. The trídhathach na hÉireann is waved and everyone has a great time.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Patrick%27s_Day_in_the_United_States#New_York_City

    But apparently the reason there is no big White identity in the US is because Jews who are White, but don’t consider themselves as White, but consider themselves Jews first, are against it. Unlike…

    http://www.irishtimes.com/blogs/generationemigration/2013/02/12/when-the-irish-became-white-immigrants-in-mid-19th-century-us/

    2/ My memory may be failing but I’m sure I’ve seen a website featuring a lot of people who are extremely proud of their specific Russian, as opposed to their general White heritage. Both article writers and commenters constantly write about Russia, its successes, its leader, its successful military, defend the Rossiya-Matushka…

    I think the website’s name starts with the letter ‘U’.

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    • Replies: @bored identity
    Totally...


    I've also quit visiting US Weeekly for the same reason you did.

    Now I subscribe only to whatever comes from anony-maus sources.
    , @anon
    They supported St Patrick's Day as an anti-WASP move not pro-White - divide and rule.
  30. Barnard says:
    @Buzz Mohawk
    This is the unique American conundrum: How to identify ourselves in a nation of mixed peoples.

    I can think of no one better than Steve to address this.

    Citizenism is the way. Everyone just needs to admit and accept the fact that whiteness and goyness are essential ingredients. It's like chicken soup: there are herbs and spices, but the theme is chicken. We all love the herbs and spices, and we don't want our soup without them, but they must work in concert with the chicken!

    Simple concepts like this are hard for people, en masse to understand -- especially when there are "special" groups with loud voices who push contrary ideas they think are in their own interest. Again, Steve addresses this part of the problem in a tasteful and realistic manner that I think should be immune to the old "anti-........" accusations.

    Put it all in your book, Steve.

    Simple concepts like this are hard for people, en masse to understand — especially when there are “special” groups with loud voices who push contrary ideas they think are in their own interest.

    What is the argument that is going to convince them to give up victim status? Take the Hispanic example Steve makes above, it is simply a rent seeking classification. Do you think people who use will give up for the greater good?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Jack D
    At some point the system of preferences collapses from its own weight, as Steve points out. When everyone is special then no one is special. You can get away with doing AA for 10 or 20% of the population but AA for 60% of the population is not sustainable - at that point it's white people who are the oppressed minority and they are going to want their own AA. The old canard is that we go seamlessly from a situation where you can't get rid of AA because the beneficiaries are too weak to a situation where you can't get rid of it because they are too powerful, but in the end you don't have to get rid of it because it becomes meaningless.
  31. Wilkey says:

    If one thing is certain, it’s that Trump has proven that, whatever happens in American politics, it’s never that cerebral. People respond to what they respond to, and it’s almost never as the intellectuals have predicted. They might go in the general direction the intellectuals thought they would, but not for the reasons that they predicted. It could be a white identity movement, or it could just be whites firmly and stubbornly insisting, mostly in the privacy of the voting booth, that we aren’t going to be kicked around by groups of people who claim we whites are all racists but would never move back to a country full of people like themselves.

    I remember being shocked, ten years or so ago, at the positive response to the Minuteman Project. Here’s a bunch of old geezers sitting near the border in lawn chairs with binoculars. I never thought what seemed to me little more than a silly and stupid PR stunt would inspire so many Americans to care about illegal immigration, but it did, and in retrospect it definitely wasn’t stupid.

    So: we can’t really predict whether or not the current situation will inspire a “white identity” movement, but we can predict – safely – that whites will start putting up a fight. Trump’s election shows that we have already started doing so.

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  32. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer

    https://twitter.com/Ed_Realist/status/801439518456852480

    Going off what Ed Realist says I think the media should talk to people like Sailer, Coulter, Derb, and Kaus. They all have IQs north of 130, are generally sensible/informed people, and can provide an intellectual justification for Trump/Trumpism. All the people I’ve seen on tv promoting Trump are complete bozos. For instance, Hannity was FOR THE GANG OF 8 BILL! Same deal with Christie. Trump is an enormously flawed individual, but he believed in this old fashioned idea called “borders”. A pro-amnesty republican who supports Trump is insane.

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  33. Jews will immediately see that it makes whites stronger, and will wonder is making whites stronger good for the Jews? The only thing I see stopping the dispossession and inevitable genocide that will follow short of deportations is convincing the jews they will not be able to rule over new south africa but will be slaughtered in their bed along with other whites non whites failing to notice the nuance of jew privilege. But if that were going to happen it would have started when Redgrave went on her PLO rant at the Oscars 30 years ago, theyre either not as smart as we think or have a secret weapon we haven’t thought of.
    Thinking about griffe d lion analysis of Jewish IQ accounting for 2% Jewish population having 50% wealth and power [he thinks it accounts for it without need to hold for elders of zion].Anyway I had the thought that math really is beside the point.You cant make trillions and aquire world power simply doing the things Jews and non Jew elites do. Elites wouldn’t last five minutes without the rest of us, our transportation and communication information infrastructure our labor pool our military and a thousand other things support those that hold elite positions in fact they are supposed to be working for us. I dont mean this at all from a socialist perspective but the foundation of civilization of property right is violence the people always hold this card ultimately they rightly allow a hierarchical system to manage the nation efficiently not to loot the nation.In other words Imagine for a moment that about 75 years ago we let in a lot of Japanese and woke up to find they owned half the media the banks the law entertainment the education systemand all the NGOs permanent civil service etc and used it all in ways that deconstructed our culture and threatened us and we found that they were all dual citizens of japan and used our military to proxy japans interests.We asked ourselves how did this happen we were before the war the greatest nation on earth had built it ourselves now we are told its owned by the Japanese but the Japanese didnt build america invent the automobile the lightbulb TV defeat the British empire and the Soviet union what the hell happened? and we studied the situation and found well they had slightly higher IQs and more solidarity but on the other hand even with the IQ advantage our sheer numbers of 50-1 should still have swamped them. what happened was they targetted specific nodes of power that in a hierarchical system give them effective control over a nation that took 500 years to build and 50 times their number to sustain.
    Now if it turned out this group was british americans or italian americans probably not going to worry as much the problem is Jews do not assimilate no matter how much we can no longer tell or care to tell who they are they keep very careful track themselves they can be 1/8 jewish and still nurse the resentment about what some european did to them in the 1800s, They have no compunction about destroying our culture they revel in it, one of their major contributions is humor deriding our culture their academics has been a withering assault on western civilization and more recently on us as a genetic people, their financial innovations and political work has essentially looted us to the tune of 200 trillion dollars.Despite the recent eviction from europe they are back at it over there as well doing the same thing as they do here. They would like us to pretend that our own elites are as guilty as they are and therefore this is not a racial animus but simply liberalism, but this obfuscates who it was indoctrinating the white elites over the past 100 years and how white liberalism was classical liberalism not marxism. Im really sad to say despite a lifetime of friendship with jews that continue i can no longer close my eyes to what is going on. I think many are waking up to the dispossession and coming genocide and will see the same patterns. I think the only non violent path out of this is that Jews immediately loudly and clearly switch sides if they did i think we could find a political solution if not it will become tribal

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  34. I am in awe at this piece – its subtle subversiveness and nonchalant assertions of verboten truths.

    One thing though:

    I did propose conceding permanent quotas for the descendants of American slaves. That’s a high cost, but one we’re likely to pay anyway.

    Bad idea. These affirmative action programs shield “the talented tenth” from the adverse impact of immigration and open trade. Eliminating the programs would incentivize them to join Whites in the political realm to oppose immigration.

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    • Replies: @Jack D
    If you wanted to, you could construct a very narrow AA program for American slave descendants on both sides like Michelle Obama. One of the requirements would be that neither of your parents could be college graduates. That would eliminate all the talented tenth types, the Caribbean blacks and Ibos, etc. who are the main AA beneficiaries today. The number of Michelles that would actually end up graduating from Princeton is very small - very few can hack it.
  35. ChrisZ says:
    @Buzz Mohawk
    This is the unique American conundrum: How to identify ourselves in a nation of mixed peoples.

    I can think of no one better than Steve to address this.

    Citizenism is the way. Everyone just needs to admit and accept the fact that whiteness and goyness are essential ingredients. It's like chicken soup: there are herbs and spices, but the theme is chicken. We all love the herbs and spices, and we don't want our soup without them, but they must work in concert with the chicken!

    Simple concepts like this are hard for people, en masse to understand -- especially when there are "special" groups with loud voices who push contrary ideas they think are in their own interest. Again, Steve addresses this part of the problem in a tasteful and realistic manner that I think should be immune to the old "anti-........" accusations.

    Put it all in your book, Steve.

    The corollary to Buzz’s chicken soup analogy is that without the chicken, the “soup” would be just water with spices: unsatisfying, not very nutritious, and appetizing only to people who’ve never tasted the real thing.

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  36. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer

    Citizen is to Country as Shareholder is to Company.

    Read More
    • Replies: @CK
    If you follow that line of thinking, then citizenship just as a share of stock has a value.
    And different citizenships have different values.
    And it follows that giving away citizenship cheapens the value of the stock.
    Issuing more citizenships would be a matter for the current citizens to decide as to
    amount and price. And selling one's citizenship would be easily doable. Just another
    asset to be disposed of as and when the holder decides it is most profitable to do so.
    Selling citizenships as so many countries do is a more sensible approach.
    Wonder what a citizenship market akin to the NYSE would look like>
    Which citizenships would be the MSFT or the APPL and which would be the
    "penny stock" equivalents.
  37. Somewhat OT:

    An article in Jacobin about Cornel West’s loyalty to class politics over identity politics. It quotes the Clinton speech you’re fond of quoting, Steve, about how shutting down the banks won’t end racism.

    https://www.jacobinmag.com/2016/11/everybody-hates-cornel-west/

    It’s always fun to see earnest old-school left mags like Jacobin and Dissent publishing essays that could have been written by Sailer.

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  38. IHTG says:
    @countenance
    The nub of your argument is:

    Citizenism, because, unlike WNism, the Jews won't hate it.

    All I can say is that the citizenist-based Trump candidacy has mostly proven your theory wrong.

    Judging by the comment about percentages, clearly his argument is “they’ll hate it less“.

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    • Replies: @countenance
    My point is this:

    If a world view needs Jewish permission to be nationally credible, and Jews neither approve of WN nor citizenism, and we know from the current year that they don't approve of citizenism, and the slight margins to which they might approve of citizenism instead of WN aren't enough to matter, then our decision on whether to pursue WN or citizenism should not be informed by what the Jews are going to do or not do.

    However, another thing the current year taught us is that the Jews aren't the universal gatekeeper, that they don't always get what they want. Trump won, didn't he?
  39. @Buzz Mohawk
    This is the unique American conundrum: How to identify ourselves in a nation of mixed peoples.

    I can think of no one better than Steve to address this.

    Citizenism is the way. Everyone just needs to admit and accept the fact that whiteness and goyness are essential ingredients. It's like chicken soup: there are herbs and spices, but the theme is chicken. We all love the herbs and spices, and we don't want our soup without them, but they must work in concert with the chicken!

    Simple concepts like this are hard for people, en masse to understand -- especially when there are "special" groups with loud voices who push contrary ideas they think are in their own interest. Again, Steve addresses this part of the problem in a tasteful and realistic manner that I think should be immune to the old "anti-........" accusations.

    Put it all in your book, Steve.

    I like the chicken soup metaphor.

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  40. SPMoore8 says:

    I think “Citizenism” is an acceptable alternative to “Nationalism”, but it’s really just a change of name.

    Most of us when we think of “nationalism” think of what in Europe is essentially “ethnic chauvinism” and while there have been episodes of that in American history they never seem to get very far, largely because intermarriage of different groups is so common, but also because the American ethos has always been pretty much live and let live, do your own thing, if the constraints in A are too strong, just move to B, and so on.

    At the same time it raises the question of where we are going to hang our hat, since a national or ethnic identity in the US isn’t going to be supported by religion or race. That’s where our shared history, culture, flag, etc. come into play.

    I grew up on the West Coast (Bay Area) and then was in the service for 4 years. Nobody paid any attention — at least, no one I knew — to the ethnic background or background of X, Y or Z. There was occasionally some Black/White stuff. But if a black person could speak the King’s English nobody really cared. As for Irish, Italian, Jews, Hispanics, Asians? No way.

    Years later I moved to the East Coast, where I have lived for many decades. When I got there, the level of ethnic self-identification was to me incredible. I also thought it was kind of ridiculous. It’s much less now, but that’s partly because NYC is much less white now. Or at any rate, seems so.

    I think at bottom most Americans are splintered out. They are tired of hearing about the special problems that everyone has because of their niche position (women, blacks, Asians, disabled, LGBTQIA, etc. etc.) Enough already. And straight white guys are tired of being told to care, and tired of being told that they only reason they don’t care is because of their privilege. I don’t know if a vote for Trump was “the biggest F U in American politics” (I think Megyn Kelly called it that on TV.) But I do know that many Americans have a big F U and a cheerfully raised middle finger for people who keep complaining about how specially oppressed they are.

    This is where I think Trump has a way of arguing for a more inclusive “American” identity. Because we all know what an “American” is, and that’s the ordinary person we encounter in our daily life, who speaks English, who understands the culture, and who isn’t always trying to draw attention to themselves over their special status.

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    • Replies: @Jack D
    I assume you saw the column by the liberal guy in the NY Times a few days ago who made essentially the same argument as you just did? Some of the readership accepted it but there were quite a few who objected violently. There are a lot of people in the US now who derive their whole identity from their grievance group. A lot of them make their living off of these grievances - they are professional grievance mongers. What you saw back in the day from old line NY ethnics was NOTHING compared to the way these people have wrapped up their whole identity and livelihood in being something other than generic "Americans". They are not going back to the old way without a big fight.
    , @Jefferson
    "I grew up on the West Coast (Bay Area) and then was in the service for 4 years. Nobody paid any attention — at least, no one I knew — to the ethnic background or background of X, Y or Z."

    When was the last time you resided in The Bay Area? When Dirty Harry was cleaning up it's streets in the 1970s? The Bay Area in 2016 is militant identity politics on steroids. There is nothing color blind laid back about The Bay Area in 2016.
  41. Hunsdon says:
    @Buzz Mohawk
    This is the unique American conundrum: How to identify ourselves in a nation of mixed peoples.

    I can think of no one better than Steve to address this.

    Citizenism is the way. Everyone just needs to admit and accept the fact that whiteness and goyness are essential ingredients. It's like chicken soup: there are herbs and spices, but the theme is chicken. We all love the herbs and spices, and we don't want our soup without them, but they must work in concert with the chicken!

    Simple concepts like this are hard for people, en masse to understand -- especially when there are "special" groups with loud voices who push contrary ideas they think are in their own interest. Again, Steve addresses this part of the problem in a tasteful and realistic manner that I think should be immune to the old "anti-........" accusations.

    Put it all in your book, Steve.

    Like Opinionater, I agree with Buzz.

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  42. TheJester says:

    iSteve,

    Recognizing that your review of Jared Taylor’s book was written in 2011, I suspect you might now be a bit more optimistic about the emergence of “identity politics” for Whites.

    As an axiom, the globalist NWO depreciates the meaning of “citizenship”. (If there are no longer nations, people cannot be citizens of those nations.) I’ve believed for some time that the solution to our national malaise — a theme for White “identity politics” and a response to the NWO — is to restore the powers of citizenship. That immediately leads to the concept of equality under the law … from which it directly follows that affirmative action is unlawful for the racial and gender privilege it gives existing minorities, women, and incoming immigrants.

    Those who lived during the Civil Right era in the 1960s recall why affirmative action for Blacks was permitted as an exception to equality under the law: It was an attempt at a broad brush reparation for racial prejudice still extant in law in some states and in the Federal government. The assumption was that racial quotas were a temporary solution to a material problem that warranted a Constitutional exception to equal protection under the law.

    However, although the material condition justifying affirmative action gradually disappeared, the exception stood. Indeed, the Constitutional and judicial rot represented by affirmation action reached its zenith when the Supreme Court in Fisher vs the University of Texas (Austin), 23 June 2016, declared that affirmative action did NOT violate the Equal Protection clause of the Constitution IF the intent was to enhance the educational experience of everyone at the university by providing a diversity student body.

    Petitioner claims that the University has not articulated its compelling interest with sufficient clarity because it has failed to state more precisely what level of minority enrollment would constitute a “critical mass.” However, the compelling interest that justifies consideration of race in college admissions is not an interest in enrolling a certain number of minority students, but an interest in obtaining “the educational benefits that flow from student body diversity.”

    — Fisher vs the University of Texas (Austin)

    In short, the ruling was that an exception to the Equal Protection clause would continue to be justified regardless of the irrelevancy of civil rights issues if it prepares all students for the NWO. Affirmative action for minorities, women, and immigrants of all colors would now be justified for the effect it has on White people … get used to it as you undergo reeducation in preparation for the NWO.

    Hopefully, this attack on the Constitution and equal protection under the law will be reversed as a result of Trump nominating a conservative to the Supreme Court … and then we as a nation can put the era of government-directed social experimentation and the forced reeducation of its citizenry behind us. That and Trump’s rejection of the globalist TPP and TTIP trade agreements may save us from the NWO.

    Read More
    • Replies: @ben tillman

    Petitioner claims that the University has not articulated its compelling interest with sufficient clarity because it has failed to state more precisely what level of minority enrollment would constitute a “critical mass.”
     
    Look at how stupid the Supreme Court has become. Only one level of minority enrollment is possible in Texas: 100%.
  43. Jack D says:
    @Barnard

    Simple concepts like this are hard for people, en masse to understand — especially when there are “special” groups with loud voices who push contrary ideas they think are in their own interest.
     
    What is the argument that is going to convince them to give up victim status? Take the Hispanic example Steve makes above, it is simply a rent seeking classification. Do you think people who use will give up for the greater good?

    At some point the system of preferences collapses from its own weight, as Steve points out. When everyone is special then no one is special. You can get away with doing AA for 10 or 20% of the population but AA for 60% of the population is not sustainable – at that point it’s white people who are the oppressed minority and they are going to want their own AA. The old canard is that we go seamlessly from a situation where you can’t get rid of AA because the beneficiaries are too weak to a situation where you can’t get rid of it because they are too powerful, but in the end you don’t have to get rid of it because it becomes meaningless.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Lot

    but AA for 60% of the population is not sustainable
     
    Not true. Both India and Malaysia have AA systems for a majority of their populations.
    , @NOTA
    I don't think it becomes unsustainable, just more of a burden. But you can certainly imagine each beneficiary group fighting like hell to keep their slice of the pie or expand it, even as the pie is made smaller by their efforts. I've seen people proposing to extend AA to lower-class rural whites. That's one step on the road to making AA something that can never go away.

    In each class of beneficiaries, it is the most ambitious and upwardly mobile who will benefit the most (and fight the hardest) for their kids to get preference to go to Ruling Class University.
  44. George says:
    @Buzz Mohawk
    This is the unique American conundrum: How to identify ourselves in a nation of mixed peoples.

    I can think of no one better than Steve to address this.

    Citizenism is the way. Everyone just needs to admit and accept the fact that whiteness and goyness are essential ingredients. It's like chicken soup: there are herbs and spices, but the theme is chicken. We all love the herbs and spices, and we don't want our soup without them, but they must work in concert with the chicken!

    Simple concepts like this are hard for people, en masse to understand -- especially when there are "special" groups with loud voices who push contrary ideas they think are in their own interest. Again, Steve addresses this part of the problem in a tasteful and realistic manner that I think should be immune to the old "anti-........" accusations.

    Put it all in your book, Steve.

    So the chicken is supposed to sacrifice all for the greater good of the soup, and to the benefit of only the people dining. Isn’t that the plot of one of Orwell’s books. All I see is unalloyed bolshevism.

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  45. Mr. Blank says:

    I wish something like “citizenism” could gain traction so I’d have something handy to describe myself. I note from my Facebook feed that my liberal friends have discovered the term “alt-right,” which they see as a synonym for “Nazi.” Seriously, it’s a coordinated thing — practically overnight I’m seeing my libtard friends flood the site with “alt-right = Nazi” memes.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Opinionator
    Thank you, Richard Spencer.
    , @Lot

    Seriously, it’s a coordinated thing — practically overnight I’m seeing my libtard friends flood the site with “alt-right = Nazi” memes.
     
    In the abstract I don't have an problem with "alt-right" branding, but in practice Richard Spencer and his Nazi cosplayers, working closely with the MSM, have now rendered what was once a more general term toxic.

    It was a stupid term anyway, we've had "paleoconservative" in use for 20+ years.

    The fact that modern science has pretty much vindicated paleo diets: all the better!
    , @YT Wurlitzer
    White nationalism is the enemedia's choice, and yes it is a coordinated thing. They went from calling Trump's supporters Nazis and haters to calling their success white nationalism, putting up a straw man to knock down.

    But the white working class carried this vote only because the working class of other races voted with them. (Alas, poor Bill.) Despite my handle, I don't seek racial purity or supremacy but a cessation of the war on our culture.

    I happened to see a vintage snippet of some NAACP blacks talking about how disgusted they were with hip hop being hyped by those who prosper by destroying culture and appropriating children's' minds, and I thought how BLM must look to those blacks. I really have more in common with them and with working class Hispanics than I do with the Democrats. I empathize with these older blacks and wonder if I don't feel the same when I see these efforts to define what Trump's victory means into something so harmful to most who supported him. Trump did not win on white power neo-Nazi salutes.

    Trump's win was white people tired of being screwed over by their own government. People not seeking supremacy but equality in their own native country. If the entire world is a preferred, protected class and white native borns are the only people not in it, wouldn't it be more honest to openly discriminate against whites? And hasn't that already been happening with only the degree increasing?

    The time has come to end all racial preferences, to stop holding one race alone responsible for human history's failing. Just because injustice wasn't recorded in Africa doesn't mean it didn't happen. THE Natives didn't keep records of their atrocities, slavery, rapes, etc., so let's stop pretending only whites did wrong and everyone else descended from saints.

    And if we have Jewish power then why not Gentile politics? If religious factions of every stripe require deference, so what ever happened to the Protestant work ethic? Who redefined it into white privilege, erasing in one swipe generations of working class people's achievments?

    It could be that white identity is a tactic, and probably a necessary one. But citizenism or Americanism should be the strategy, the goal. Otherwise it will be our downfall as surely as BLM is proving destructive to those they presume to speak for.
    , @Kylie
    Maybe you need to edit your Friends list.
  46. @NickG
    For whites and identity politics, if you can't beat those that engage in it - and it seems clear that you can't - the sooner you join them, the better, or else you will get screwed over, big time.

    Any form of affirmative action involves discriminating against those that do not fit the favoured group's profile - example from today.

    What does it mean to “join them”?

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  47. Whiskey says: • Website

    Steve, you can’t call back the bullet and it is precisely BECAUSE Jews are now being fired and excluded is the reason for White Nationalism, EXPLICITLY INCLUDING JEWS.

    Hollywood is now purging lower echelon Jews out of writing, producing, etc. In favor of AA Blacks. The same is true for Corporate America. There will be no Jewish successor to Chuck Schumer, instead someone like Keith Ellison X is the new face of the Democratic Party. All the old Jewish dudes who were big deals in politics, business, finance, and culture are now being replaced by … Tyler Perry and Kamala Harris.

    Look at BDS — its spreading like wildfire. Muslims, Blacks, and even Hispanics either hate or hate hate hate or dislike Jews.

    What else is there? Dems neither need nor desire Jewish money in donations, given that Chinese money and control over Corporate and Government that give control over huge money spigots and patronage networks. Imagine Berkeley or UCLA writ large — that’s a guarantee of Jewish support for WN; and the scope and scale of mass third world immigration guarantees that Whites will be a minority in the US within ten years and maybe five.

    As reported, Trump is going to do exactly nothing about it either; rather tax breaks for rich dudes. Like Bill Gates.

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  48. @Mr. Blank
    I wish something like "citizenism" could gain traction so I'd have something handy to describe myself. I note from my Facebook feed that my liberal friends have discovered the term "alt-right," which they see as a synonym for "Nazi." Seriously, it's a coordinated thing -- practically overnight I'm seeing my libtard friends flood the site with "alt-right = Nazi" memes.

    Thank you, Richard Spencer.

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  49. @countenance
    The nub of your argument is:

    Citizenism, because, unlike WNism, the Jews won't hate it.

    All I can say is that the citizenist-based Trump candidacy has mostly proven your theory wrong.

    Steve’s subtle argument is that the jews consider solidarity among Americans slightly less intolerable than solidarity among Whites. (See below.) For those of us who wish to hang on to our country, presumptively we should play the odds.

    Is my philosophy extolling solidarity among American citizens rather than among whites likely to prove more acceptable to the media gatekeepers that Taylor’s white advocacy?

    Sure—in the sense that a two percent probability is twice a one percent probability. You’ll note that, after all these years, I’m still using quotes around “citizenism” because nobody knows what the word is. It hasn’t exactly swept the intellectual world.

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  50. @bored identity
    The already existing term Americanism, as a loaded version of citizenism, could be an acceptable solution for a good sixty percent of the US population.

    It provides a highly resistant semantic PeeCee-proof coating for the set of ideas to which even the most eloquent talmudoids will have to deal with an extreme prejudice in order not to reveal their obvious despise for the very same cultural host that not only provided a thriving incubator, but literately secured their physical survival during the previous century.

    Keep in mind that the usage of an "America First" slogan didn't harm Trump's presidential run a zilch- regardless of the relentless paranoia of the usual suspecting collective-memorists who worked overtime to j'accuse Donald of allegedly poltergeisting the Spirit of St. Louis in their prosaic shabbos afternoons.

    It provides a highly resistant semantic PeeCee-proof coating for the set of ideas to which even the most eloquent talmudoids will have to deal with an extreme prejudice in order not to reveal their obvious despise

    Please elaborate on why?

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    • Replies: @bored identity
    Mark my words:



    70-80% of Zer Experts with a desire and moxie to fight Trump's latest not so modest proposal- on the ground of the SCOTUS First Amendment rulling- won't be of white/Anglo/Western European heritage:


    https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/803567993036754944

     

    What do you think for how long Zer Experts will be able to advocate it's-just-a -piece-of-cloth rational before the number of highly passionate deplorables exponentially grows to the unbearable level for the current status quo stance of The Supreme Court Justices ?
  51. @Chrisnonymous
    If Jews are herbs and spices, who gets to be the matzah ball?

    The WeeABoos Chris! Jus’ like you! They will saves us allll………

    Trump will looosee…whahhahahahhaahhahah…..

    We all have dreams, bro! Argue wit the ALt-RT on da internet!!

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  52. The First Rule of Americanism is:

    If your name is Sheilah Horton,and you’re, for what ever friggin’ reason, a Loyola University administrator on Team Nicaragua, your musings about how America-themed college events provide “an opportunity for students to dress or behave in a way that offends or oppresses others,” should be fully denounced as being the part of treasonous mindset which undermines core values of the society that’s for some reason still unwittingly paying your mortgage bills.

    The Second Rule of Americanism is:
    Disavow by all means your association with an organization that fancies this foreign country originated and guerilla- terrorism celebrating mural on it’s website, or move to Nicaragua and apply for a job in Daniel Ortega’s Department of Edjukation.

    The Third Rule of Americanism:
    You can add as many rules, as long as you’re persevering towards the goal of a long and prosperous Americanism for all Americans.

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  53. Jack D says:
    @SPMoore8
    I think "Citizenism" is an acceptable alternative to "Nationalism", but it's really just a change of name.

    Most of us when we think of "nationalism" think of what in Europe is essentially "ethnic chauvinism" and while there have been episodes of that in American history they never seem to get very far, largely because intermarriage of different groups is so common, but also because the American ethos has always been pretty much live and let live, do your own thing, if the constraints in A are too strong, just move to B, and so on.

    At the same time it raises the question of where we are going to hang our hat, since a national or ethnic identity in the US isn't going to be supported by religion or race. That's where our shared history, culture, flag, etc. come into play.

    I grew up on the West Coast (Bay Area) and then was in the service for 4 years. Nobody paid any attention -- at least, no one I knew -- to the ethnic background or background of X, Y or Z. There was occasionally some Black/White stuff. But if a black person could speak the King's English nobody really cared. As for Irish, Italian, Jews, Hispanics, Asians? No way.

    Years later I moved to the East Coast, where I have lived for many decades. When I got there, the level of ethnic self-identification was to me incredible. I also thought it was kind of ridiculous. It's much less now, but that's partly because NYC is much less white now. Or at any rate, seems so.

    I think at bottom most Americans are splintered out. They are tired of hearing about the special problems that everyone has because of their niche position (women, blacks, Asians, disabled, LGBTQIA, etc. etc.) Enough already. And straight white guys are tired of being told to care, and tired of being told that they only reason they don't care is because of their privilege. I don't know if a vote for Trump was "the biggest F U in American politics" (I think Megyn Kelly called it that on TV.) But I do know that many Americans have a big F U and a cheerfully raised middle finger for people who keep complaining about how specially oppressed they are.

    This is where I think Trump has a way of arguing for a more inclusive "American" identity. Because we all know what an "American" is, and that's the ordinary person we encounter in our daily life, who speaks English, who understands the culture, and who isn't always trying to draw attention to themselves over their special status.

    I assume you saw the column by the liberal guy in the NY Times a few days ago who made essentially the same argument as you just did? Some of the readership accepted it but there were quite a few who objected violently. There are a lot of people in the US now who derive their whole identity from their grievance group. A lot of them make their living off of these grievances – they are professional grievance mongers. What you saw back in the day from old line NY ethnics was NOTHING compared to the way these people have wrapped up their whole identity and livelihood in being something other than generic “Americans”. They are not going back to the old way without a big fight.

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    • Agree: SPMoore8
    • Replies: @SPMoore8
    Right, that was the Mark Lilla article; I linked to it at the time because I had been saying something similar here and in other venues in the preceding days. And yes, also, the top rated comment was some angry lesbian who was deeply insulted that some straight white guy was ignoring all of her special hurdles, etc. etc.

    No, the self-regarding fringes are not going to go quietly. But it was a mistake to give them that much attention in the first place.

    I predict there will be a backlash; not in terms of violence, just in terms of avoidance.
    , @Jefferson
    "I assume you saw the column by the liberal guy in the NY Times a few days ago who made essentially the same argument as you just did? Some of the readership accepted it but there were quite a few who objected violently."

    Did the people who objected violently say which race or ethnic group they belong to?
  54. Jack D says:
    @Opinionator
    I am in awe at this piece - its subtle subversiveness and nonchalant assertions of verboten truths.

    One thing though:

    I did propose conceding permanent quotas for the descendants of American slaves. That’s a high cost, but one we’re likely to pay anyway.

    Bad idea. These affirmative action programs shield "the talented tenth" from the adverse impact of immigration and open trade. Eliminating the programs would incentivize them to join Whites in the political realm to oppose immigration.

    If you wanted to, you could construct a very narrow AA program for American slave descendants on both sides like Michelle Obama. One of the requirements would be that neither of your parents could be college graduates. That would eliminate all the talented tenth types, the Caribbean blacks and Ibos, etc. who are the main AA beneficiaries today. The number of Michelles that would actually end up graduating from Princeton is very small – very few can hack it.

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    • Replies: @anonguy

    The number of Michelles that would actually end up graduating from Princeton is very small – very few can hack it.
     
    It is actually pretty hard to flunk out of an Ivy, the hard part is getting in.
  55. Wencil says:

    Jared Kushner knows what it is like when another group is trying to exterminate your people. Most Jews in
    Europe meekly accepted the genocide organized by the
    Nazis. Not
    Jared’s family…. his family was one of the very small number that picked up guns and faught back in the
    Bielski resistance http://m.jpost.com/Opinion/Rae-Kushner-A-story-of-Jewish-resistance-375652#article=0MDc1M0NDQzc3NEM0NEYxNUYyRTlDMzFERjBDQUY1MkE=

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  56. Neoconservatism was born precisely when the international LEFT turned away from Israel and championed the Palestinians.

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  57. Lot says:

    Americans have spoken in elections, time and again, that they hate explicit white nationalism. Even in the deep south, even when the conditions are most ripe (surrounded by a 30-40% black population), David Duke types can’t even break 10% in GOP primaries.

    The extreme hostility of Jews and their cultural influence is of course part of this, but much more important is the extreme hostility of every Christian denomination, the fact that most of us are descended from people who fought Hitler and his allies, and that most of us have many individual Jews and non-whites that we like. It also is because that explicit WNs tend to be nasty people as individuals, as well as the fact they never really confine their hate to non-whites, but also can’t restrain their hate for Jews, Southern Europeans, the Catholic Church, and who knows what else.

    Despite this hostility to white nationalism or even watered down “identitarianism,” Americans are OK with a mild implicit version of WN.

    This isn’t the same as citizenism, though there is a lot of overlap. For instance, Canadians, Irish, English, and to a slightly lessor extent Israelis and Western Europeans are far more “American” and share more interests with us than an anchor baby, MS-13 gangbanger, or niqab-wearer who may happen to all be US Citizens. Likewise, the mass non-white, anti-white underclass has interests that are objectively hostile to most other Americans, though they are largely US Citizens.

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    • Agree: anonguy, Whoever
    • Replies: @Jefferson
    "This isn’t the same as citizenism, though there is a lot of overlap. For instance, Canadians, Irish, English, and to a slightly lessor extent Israelis and Western Europeans are far more “American” and share more interests with us than an anchor baby, MS-13 gangbanger, or niqab-wearer who may happen to all be US Citizens. Likewise, the mass non-white, anti-white underclass has interests that are objectively hostile to most other Americans, though they are largely US Citizens."

    If you ever watch a George Lopez stand up show, he talks about White Americans like they are an extremely alien culture to him even though George was born and raised in The United States and has never in his entire life lived in Mexico. There is nothing culturally American about George Lopez even though he is technically an "American". This is the type of people that Never Trump people like Ron Unz wants to keep importing into The U.S in mass.
    , @Citizen of a Silly Country
    All true. But some of our reluctance to identify racially comes from our race having been on top for nearly 500 years. We're like trust fund kids who spend their lives searching for meaning.

    The big question is what will whites think when they've been pushed around for a generation or two. Will they still believe that they are part of a global community or will they realize that they can only trust their own?

    My bet is on the latter, but I certainly could be wrong.
  58. Bindi says:

    Citizens is just a polite version of white nationalism. Diversity will win in the end. It will win no matter how many helpless immigrants Mr. Trump violently and callously deports, and no matter how many “registries” he sets up to track various undesirable groups. In fact, Diversity has already won, as evidenced by the 2016 birth rate.

    Either we will have a diverse country, or we will have a diverse group of countries in North America.

    Prediction: We will have diverse countries in North America, and the leaders of the secession in each will be white people who can’t stand other white people.

    Read More
    • Replies: @anon

    Citizens is just a polite version of white nationalism.
     
    No. It's saying the price of citizenship should be behaving as if fellow citizens are blood relatives as a way of solving the free rider problem.

    The problem is some groups and individuals want to be free riders.
  59. Lot says:
    @Mr. Blank
    I wish something like "citizenism" could gain traction so I'd have something handy to describe myself. I note from my Facebook feed that my liberal friends have discovered the term "alt-right," which they see as a synonym for "Nazi." Seriously, it's a coordinated thing -- practically overnight I'm seeing my libtard friends flood the site with "alt-right = Nazi" memes.

    Seriously, it’s a coordinated thing — practically overnight I’m seeing my libtard friends flood the site with “alt-right = Nazi” memes.

    In the abstract I don’t have an problem with “alt-right” branding, but in practice Richard Spencer and his Nazi cosplayers, working closely with the MSM, have now rendered what was once a more general term toxic.

    It was a stupid term anyway, we’ve had “paleoconservative” in use for 20+ years.

    The fact that modern science has pretty much vindicated paleo diets: all the better!

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  60. @anony-mouse
    1/ Every year in Boston since 1737 (since 1762 in NYC) there's been a St Patrick's Day parade. The trídhathach na hÉireann is waved and everyone has a great time.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Patrick%27s_Day_in_the_United_States#New_York_City

    But apparently the reason there is no big White identity in the US is because Jews who are White, but don't consider themselves as White, but consider themselves Jews first, are against it. Unlike...

    http://www.irishtimes.com/blogs/generationemigration/2013/02/12/when-the-irish-became-white-immigrants-in-mid-19th-century-us/

    2/ My memory may be failing but I'm sure I've seen a website featuring a lot of people who are extremely proud of their specific Russian, as opposed to their general White heritage. Both article writers and commenters constantly write about Russia, its successes, its leader, its successful military, defend the Rossiya-Matushka...

    I think the website's name starts with the letter 'U'.

    Totally…

    I’ve also quit visiting US Weeekly for the same reason you did.

    Now I subscribe only to whatever comes from anony-maus sources.

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  61. Lot says:
    @Jack D
    At some point the system of preferences collapses from its own weight, as Steve points out. When everyone is special then no one is special. You can get away with doing AA for 10 or 20% of the population but AA for 60% of the population is not sustainable - at that point it's white people who are the oppressed minority and they are going to want their own AA. The old canard is that we go seamlessly from a situation where you can't get rid of AA because the beneficiaries are too weak to a situation where you can't get rid of it because they are too powerful, but in the end you don't have to get rid of it because it becomes meaningless.

    but AA for 60% of the population is not sustainable

    Not true. Both India and Malaysia have AA systems for a majority of their populations.

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  62. @MichaelRolls
    It would help a lot if the Richard Spencers of the world weren't doing their nazi-Germany historical recreation society gestures at otherwise respectable conferences.

    Idenititarianism or citizenism... the most important thing is to have a kick-ass marketing department so that blokes in swastika t-shirts don't get to attend the meeting, even if they do claim they're just Sex Pistols fans and really like Sid Vicious' style.

    Agreed wholeheartedly.

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  63. Ivy says:

    Cries on campuses and in the media of “Down with the Patriarchy, Down with White Males” arose from somewhere. Find out where and that will provide more clues about who is doing what to whom and who benefits. For the traditionalists, who, whom and cui bono?.

    That hints at the supply of such ideas. On the demand side, what masterful marketing is enticing young and not so young minds to embrace such ideas? Are those febrile minds devoid of capacity for independent thought, rational analysis or historical consideration? Cooler heads indeed need to prevail.

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  64. anonguy says:

    It is no accident that the pinnacle rich white fairness towards poor whites was during the height of the Cold War.

    One of the better observations in this thread, IMO.

    Trump is ditching WN’s, immigration issue, etc, as fast as he can, I told you guys WN’s would be taking a severe haircut post-election, but, ya know, where are they going to go.

    I also observed earlier that in a brilliant judo flip, Trump used the Sailer Strategy to win the WH, but immediately pivots to Citizenism, ultimately making everyone ok with becoming like Brazil.

    This is where it is going guys. It is going to be ok, it is a transformation the nation needs to make. It is Nixon to China gambit.

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  65. @George
    I thought the veteran's preference mostly neutralized affirmative action. Affirmarive action may not exist any more. Of course this may require Iraqistan to go on in perpetuity.

    Veterans preference in federal hiring: Is it too strong?

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/powerpost/wp/2016/10/10/veterans-preference-in-federal-hiring-is-it-too-strong/

    Not even close to true, unfortunately. There are far, far more white people who have no veteran preference and find it increasingly and unduly difficult to get hired or promoted by corporations and governments alike.

    Moreover, the vets preference helps African and Latino us soldiers when they leave the armed forces, too, and that is no small number of people.

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  66. anonguy says:
    @Jack D
    If you wanted to, you could construct a very narrow AA program for American slave descendants on both sides like Michelle Obama. One of the requirements would be that neither of your parents could be college graduates. That would eliminate all the talented tenth types, the Caribbean blacks and Ibos, etc. who are the main AA beneficiaries today. The number of Michelles that would actually end up graduating from Princeton is very small - very few can hack it.

    The number of Michelles that would actually end up graduating from Princeton is very small – very few can hack it.

    It is actually pretty hard to flunk out of an Ivy, the hard part is getting in.

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  67. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer

    So apparently a not too closeted guy, Tila Tequila, and Jason Schwartzman are the leaders of the Nazi movement?

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  68. Jack D says:

    Many Jews have strong reasons for their aversion to white identity politics, either irrational (the Cossacks are coming!) or rational (what’s in it for me?).

    The last time there was a guy who was really big into white identity politics he wasn’t a Cossack, he was a German and six million Jews died, so maybe it’s not completely irrational.

    The traditional advocates of “white identity” in America, such as the KKK, weren’t really into Jews either and there are some facets of the “alt-right” today who aren’t really keen on Jews (or “the Jews” – this is classic anti-Semitism too- my friend Joe is a really nice Jew but the international banker/media Jews are bad) either, so maybe Jews aren’t being so irrational. Maybe they’d be keener on “white identity” if they felt secure that they would be included within it, but the messages are mixed at best. In addition to those who say outright that the Jews are a Bolshevik menace, there’s another contingent that says, sure you can be white if you give up everything that makes you Jewish. You don’t have to outright convert (though we wouldn’t mind) but stop talking about Israel and stuff and just become a generic white guy. Most American Jews aren’t interested in that deal either.

    Jews may have a lot of financial/media power but Trump was just elected without the support of most of them. Some Jews will (especially if they are made to feel welcome without having to renounce Israel or their religion, as Trump did with his own son in law) join the “white” side on their own. If you want more Jews on your side, you can’t use the Hillary strategy for white blue collar voters – insult them until they see the error of their ways. Some you are never going to convince and you shouldn’t even try – I again advise the Trump strategy of just bypassing those folks (who are after all a tiny minority concentrated in a few solidly blue states) and appealing directly to the majority of the American people.

    Contra Steve, Jews are not really powerful enough to be a roadblock to white identity politics (at least the Trumpian version) and if welcomed instead of excluded some might even be on the right side of it. The Jews of the South are an example – during the Civil Rights movement of the 50s/60s, lots of Yankee Leftist Jews came down South to oppose racism and organize sit-ins, etc. But the local Jewish community (almost every small Southern town had a handful of long settled Jews descended from the peddlers who had settled down – they owned the dry goods store, the pharmacy, etc.) was completely identified with their white neighbors and customers (and were well aware that blacks were not exactly noble angels) and would have nothing to do with the agitators.

    Read More
    • Replies: @BB753
    It's a common mistake to assume that Hitler was pro-white. First of all, he was a German nationalist. And he saw other Whites, such as Frenchmen and Poles, as enemies. As for Jews, they were classified as non-Aryans, not non-Whites. Nazis had a thing for Aryans, remember? But they would have laughed at the suggestion that Jews weren't white.
    , @Langley
    " But the local Jewish community (almost every small Southern town had a handful of long settled Jews descended from the peddlers who had settled down – they owned the dry goods store, the pharmacy, etc.) was completely identified with their white neighbors and customers (and were well aware that blacks were not exactly noble angels) and would have nothing to do with the agitators."

    That is the old Sephardi vs Ashkenazim feud.
    My people are Sephardi on the Elliot side of the family.
    We came up from the Caribbean with the Spanish.
    (Look us up in "The first Jews in America)
    We were not seen by the Ashkenazim as the "right kind of people."
    We were the people that Moses would not take to the promised land on New York.
    , @Jefferson
    "In addition to those who say outright that the Jews are a Bolshevik menace, there’s another contingent that says, sure you can be white if you give up everything that makes you Jewish. You don’t have to outright convert (though we wouldn’t mind) but stop talking about Israel and stuff and just become a generic white guy. Most American Jews aren’t interested in that deal either."

    White Nationalism doesn't attract a lot of Italians either. Good luck trying to convince the average blue collar New Jersey/New York Italian to stop talking about being Italian and just be a generic White guy like super WASP Mitt Romney. Stop celebrating Christopher Columbus Day, stop saying fuggedaboutit, stop quoting lines from The Godfather & The Sopranos, and cut down on the Italian food intake.

  69. The prospects for white identity politics are excellent–when whites achieve minority status. Like, exactly like…..Mexico. Government, business, television, all white all the time. Which is not even the point. The point is that the every Mestizos I’ve ever spoken with regards that as right and natural.

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  70. Svigor says:

    Then there are the socialists, commies, who have eaten their own countrymen almost everywhere these ideas have been tried. Easily the most oppressive and murderous ideology of the 20th century, and yet, Bernie got a lot of traction with young, uneducated boobs. Che shirts are cool. Nobody would blink if you put the faces of the greatest communist murderers in history on a t-shirt and wore it everywhere.

    It’s almost like people have imbibed a false narrative, one vulnerable to change…

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  71. It’s funny to see the specter of anti-Semitism raised against the Right, because it is no bar to being on the left.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Hibernian
    On the Left, BDS is pushed by people who are Jewish themselves, giving cover to the Zen Presbyterians who have boundless compassion for Palestinians and none for Israelis.
  72. Svigor says:

    The last time there was a guy who was really big into white identity politics he wasn’t a Cossack, he was a German and six million Jews died, so maybe it’s not completely irrational.

    Again, Hitler was into German Nationalism, not White Nationalism. To the extent that he wanted to invade and en-serf the White Nations around him.

    He was into socialism, too, but conveniently, that part is forgotten. Almost like the dominant narrative is a false one.

    But Hitler’s socialism is useful in another way; the difference between Communism (International Socialism) and Nazism (National Socialism) was a lot like the difference between White Nationalism and Hitler’s aggressive National Socialism. It was enough to make the Commies and the Nazis mortal enemies.

    You guys talk about elements of the Narrative as if they’re written in stone, but that seems like a mistake to me.

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  73. Luke Lea says: • Website
    @Luke Lea
    So "citizenism" doesn't fly. Then how about a word that denotes the nation as a whole, understood as all the people in the country who make up the nation? Nationalism, neo-nationalism, liberal nationalism, democracy, democratic liberalism, liberal democratic nationalism . . .

    Instead of citizenism how about “citizens first”? As in, are you a citizens firster? Better than Americans first or America first because it will work in other countries as well as here. Doesn’t sound chauvinistic.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Opinionator
    Possibly could work.
    , @Opinionator
    How about "Hamiltonian" or "Hamiltonians"?
  74. Svigor says:

    there’s another contingent that says, sure you can be white if you give up everything that makes you Jewish. You don’t have to outright convert (though we wouldn’t mind) but stop talking about Israel and stuff and just become a generic white guy. Most American Jews aren’t interested in that deal either.

    Yep. A man cannot serve two masters. The trouble is that too many of the Jews who do show sympathy tend to spend most of their time trying to make the movement more pro-Jewish, and none of it trying to straighten out their own tribe. Who needs friends like that? It would be like Whites joining the Black Panther Party and taking YT’s side in all the discussions. One would rightly question their loyalty.

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  75. @Luke Lea
    Instead of citizenism how about "citizens first"? As in, are you a citizens firster? Better than Americans first or America first because it will work in other countries as well as here. Doesn't sound chauvinistic.

    Possibly could work.

    Read More
  76. @Mr. Blank
    I wish something like "citizenism" could gain traction so I'd have something handy to describe myself. I note from my Facebook feed that my liberal friends have discovered the term "alt-right," which they see as a synonym for "Nazi." Seriously, it's a coordinated thing -- practically overnight I'm seeing my libtard friends flood the site with "alt-right = Nazi" memes.

    White nationalism is the enemedia’s choice, and yes it is a coordinated thing. They went from calling Trump’s supporters Nazis and haters to calling their success white nationalism, putting up a straw man to knock down.

    But the white working class carried this vote only because the working class of other races voted with them. (Alas, poor Bill.) Despite my handle, I don’t seek racial purity or supremacy but a cessation of the war on our culture.

    I happened to see a vintage snippet of some NAACP blacks talking about how disgusted they were with hip hop being hyped by those who prosper by destroying culture and appropriating children’s’ minds, and I thought how BLM must look to those blacks. I really have more in common with them and with working class Hispanics than I do with the Democrats. I empathize with these older blacks and wonder if I don’t feel the same when I see these efforts to define what Trump’s victory means into something so harmful to most who supported him. Trump did not win on white power neo-Nazi salutes.

    Trump’s win was white people tired of being screwed over by their own government. People not seeking supremacy but equality in their own native country. If the entire world is a preferred, protected class and white native borns are the only people not in it, wouldn’t it be more honest to openly discriminate against whites? And hasn’t that already been happening with only the degree increasing?

    The time has come to end all racial preferences, to stop holding one race alone responsible for human history’s failing. Just because injustice wasn’t recorded in Africa doesn’t mean it didn’t happen. THE Natives didn’t keep records of their atrocities, slavery, rapes, etc., so let’s stop pretending only whites did wrong and everyone else descended from saints.

    And if we have Jewish power then why not Gentile politics? If religious factions of every stripe require deference, so what ever happened to the Protestant work ethic? Who redefined it into white privilege, erasing in one swipe generations of working class people’s achievments?

    It could be that white identity is a tactic, and probably a necessary one. But citizenism or Americanism should be the strategy, the goal. Otherwise it will be our downfall as surely as BLM is proving destructive to those they presume to speak for.

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  77. BB753 says:
    @Jack D

    Many Jews have strong reasons for their aversion to white identity politics, either irrational (the Cossacks are coming!) or rational (what’s in it for me?).
     
    The last time there was a guy who was really big into white identity politics he wasn't a Cossack, he was a German and six million Jews died, so maybe it's not completely irrational.

    The traditional advocates of "white identity" in America, such as the KKK, weren't really into Jews either and there are some facets of the "alt-right" today who aren't really keen on Jews (or "the Jews" - this is classic anti-Semitism too- my friend Joe is a really nice Jew but the international banker/media Jews are bad) either, so maybe Jews aren't being so irrational. Maybe they'd be keener on "white identity" if they felt secure that they would be included within it, but the messages are mixed at best. In addition to those who say outright that the Jews are a Bolshevik menace, there's another contingent that says, sure you can be white if you give up everything that makes you Jewish. You don't have to outright convert (though we wouldn't mind) but stop talking about Israel and stuff and just become a generic white guy. Most American Jews aren't interested in that deal either.

    Jews may have a lot of financial/media power but Trump was just elected without the support of most of them. Some Jews will (especially if they are made to feel welcome without having to renounce Israel or their religion, as Trump did with his own son in law) join the "white" side on their own. If you want more Jews on your side, you can't use the Hillary strategy for white blue collar voters - insult them until they see the error of their ways. Some you are never going to convince and you shouldn't even try - I again advise the Trump strategy of just bypassing those folks (who are after all a tiny minority concentrated in a few solidly blue states) and appealing directly to the majority of the American people.

    Contra Steve, Jews are not really powerful enough to be a roadblock to white identity politics (at least the Trumpian version) and if welcomed instead of excluded some might even be on the right side of it. The Jews of the South are an example - during the Civil Rights movement of the 50s/60s, lots of Yankee Leftist Jews came down South to oppose racism and organize sit-ins, etc. But the local Jewish community (almost every small Southern town had a handful of long settled Jews descended from the peddlers who had settled down - they owned the dry goods store, the pharmacy, etc.) was completely identified with their white neighbors and customers (and were well aware that blacks were not exactly noble angels) and would have nothing to do with the agitators.

    It’s a common mistake to assume that Hitler was pro-white. First of all, he was a German nationalist. And he saw other Whites, such as Frenchmen and Poles, as enemies. As for Jews, they were classified as non-Aryans, not non-Whites. Nazis had a thing for Aryans, remember? But they would have laughed at the suggestion that Jews weren’t white.

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  78. SPMoore8 says:
    @Jack D
    I assume you saw the column by the liberal guy in the NY Times a few days ago who made essentially the same argument as you just did? Some of the readership accepted it but there were quite a few who objected violently. There are a lot of people in the US now who derive their whole identity from their grievance group. A lot of them make their living off of these grievances - they are professional grievance mongers. What you saw back in the day from old line NY ethnics was NOTHING compared to the way these people have wrapped up their whole identity and livelihood in being something other than generic "Americans". They are not going back to the old way without a big fight.

    Right, that was the Mark Lilla article; I linked to it at the time because I had been saying something similar here and in other venues in the preceding days. And yes, also, the top rated comment was some angry lesbian who was deeply insulted that some straight white guy was ignoring all of her special hurdles, etc. etc.

    No, the self-regarding fringes are not going to go quietly. But it was a mistake to give them that much attention in the first place.

    I predict there will be a backlash; not in terms of violence, just in terms of avoidance.

    Read More
    • Replies: @BenKenobi

    it was a mistake to give them that much attention in the first place.
     
    Worst of all is that they actually believe the propaganda -- they can do no wrong and anything they dream up off the top of their heads is owed to them because oppression.
  79. @Shine a Light
    The fatal flaw of white nationalism is its naivety towards class struggle. Now sure, from the white working class point of view white nationalism makes lots of sense. The race with the highest paid working class will tie themselves with the eternal bonds of racial solidarity to the race with the most members of the wealthy classes. But seen from the point of view of rich or even bourgeois whites. why in the hell should the wealthy whites want tie themselves to an arrogant and pale aristocracy of labor when the world is just teeming with docile and cheap non-white labor willing and ready to be exploited and alienated?

    From slavery to the current mass 3rd world immigration mess, wealthy whites have proven time and time again that in many conditions, they certainly prefer employing cheap labor non-whites instead of accepting lower profits while keeping it all racially pure. In short, rich whites are often not mighty white towards white workers!

    The key to getting rich whites to treat working whites fairly is the fear of something worse. It is no accident that the pinnacle rich white fairness towards poor whites was during the height of the Cold War. Poor whites it seemed had "options" to use a game term.

    And so while white identity politics will ultimately fail on the strategic level, there are tactical reasons to embrace it. Citizenism or racially neutral nationalism can indeed work. But the only way to get minorities to give up identity politics is for the majority to start making believable threats to move in that direction. Then establishment figures are called on to denounce white identity politics and are then forced to respond to why they don't also denounce Jewish, Black, Latino, Asian, or Female identity politics.

    Examples of Jewish identity politics are the plethora of explicitly Jewish political organizations. For example. why can Ben Shapiro denounce white identity politics but not the Jewish version:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Jewish-American_political_organizations

    The fatal flaw of white nationalism is its naivety towards class struggle. Now sure, from the white working class point of view white nationalism makes lots of sense. The race with the highest paid working class will tie themselves with the eternal bonds of racial solidarity to the race with the most members of the wealthy classes. But seen from the point of view of rich or even bourgeois whites. why in the hell should the wealthy whites want tie themselves to an arrogant and pale aristocracy of labor when the world is just teeming with docile and cheap non-white labor willing and ready to be exploited and alienated?

    This naivete doesn’t exist. Nor does any genuine conflict of interest. The interests of the “classes” are essentially aligned.

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  80. @sabril
    Have white identity politics emerged in countries with much less Jewish influence than the United States? If not, I would guess that something else is the problem. Most likely virtue signalling among elites who don't want to be seen as "racist."

    I imagine some people might argue that, even though not present, Jews are subtly dominating the entire world. To this I would point out that (1) there are many countries who openly support anti-Israel NGOs and/or who regularly vote against Israel at the United Nations; it is difficult to square this with Jewish dominance.; and (2) if you seriously believe that Jews are subtly controlling the world, don't be surprised when you are accused of anti-Semitism.

    I imagine some people might argue that, even though not present, Jews are subtly dominating the entire world. To this I would point out that (1) there are many countries who openly support anti-Israel NGOs and/or who regularly vote against Israel at the United Nations; it is difficult to square this with Jewish dominance.

    No, it’s not that hard. Yggdrasil published a reader’s comment in his essay on Dr Strangelove:

    http://www.whitenationalism.com/cwar/stranglv.htm

    The bureaucratic machine that they rely on, that they think they control, is filled with intelligent people fully capable of acting in furtherance of the goals with which they’ve been presented and in which they’ve been indoctrinated. The fact that these are not the true goals of the people in control of them is a fact that they cannot be allowed to become aware of, and that disconnect makes potential for very dangerous mistakes.

    Their instructions are to combat white majority power. Assaults on Jewish power in Israel appear to fit within their mission.

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  81. EdwardM says:
    @Anon7
    I agree with John Derbyshire - white people are too darned nice.

    This past weekend, I visited friends in the little Wisconsin town of Oconomowoc, population 15,000 and about 97% white folks. Nicest people you'd ever meet. I can't even believe that they need police officers, other than to offer you a hand if your car got stuck. After my consciousness-raising here and at Radio Derb, I found myself thinking "They're doomed."

    This self-effacing, hard-working nature, essential to our national success, is undoubtedly genetic in nature. If Jews were as smart as they think they are, they'd work to conserve it.

    The portion of Donald Trump's support that is silent is important. He needs to continue giving it a voice, because based on what I was seeing in Oconomowoc, it's not going to speak up for itself, regardless of whether you call it white identitarianism or citizenism. I think it's genetic.

    Great point, and I agree that this is the crux of the problem. Basically, white — especially Anglo-Saxon — people live by Judeo-Christian/Western values of individualism, honesty, fair dealing, meritocracy, treating everyone with respect by default. Essentially the Golden Rule.

    Having lived and done business in non-Western countries, whether they are basically civilized (China and Japan), not (the Arab world and the Indian subcontinent) or partially (Turkey, Israel, Latin and Slavic countries to an extent), I never ceased to be astonished at the extent to which the Golden Rule is simply not the driving force in society. These places are mostly corrupt and thuggish as a result. You’re a sucker for presuming that the guy across the table is approaching his interaction with you in good faith.

    We could engage in a chicken-and-egg argument about why these societies are the way they are. Clearly U.S. culture has successfully integrated some groups that are not too far away from our ideals (e.g., Italians and eastern Europeans who came before the 1960s), but our more recent experience as well as western Europe’s shows why we are doomed.

    People who come to the U.S. knowing how to navigate society in Pakistan, Jordan, Indonesia, or Ethiopia will be better equipped to succeed in the America of the future. Whites are being steamrolled. The concept of “citizenism” could be a good description of the required response.

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  82. @Luke Lea
    Instead of citizenism how about "citizens first"? As in, are you a citizens firster? Better than Americans first or America first because it will work in other countries as well as here. Doesn't sound chauvinistic.

    How about “Hamiltonian” or “Hamiltonians”?

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  83. J1234 says:
    @Jefferson
    The Left's extreme hatred on steroids of White people has caused many people who used to see themselves as Americans first and White second, to adopt White identity politics or at least be curious about it.

    The Left’s extreme hatred on steroids of White people has caused many people who used to see themselves as Americans first and White second, to adopt White identity politics or at least be curious about it.

    Good point, and very true. I do, however, remember a time when being American usually meant being a Caucasian, just as being Japanese or Vietnamese meant being Asian. But you are correct…leftist government/education/immigration policies and the SPLC have created the white identity movement more than anything else.

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  84. Jefferson says:
    @Shine a Light
    The fatal flaw of white nationalism is its naivety towards class struggle. Now sure, from the white working class point of view white nationalism makes lots of sense. The race with the highest paid working class will tie themselves with the eternal bonds of racial solidarity to the race with the most members of the wealthy classes. But seen from the point of view of rich or even bourgeois whites. why in the hell should the wealthy whites want tie themselves to an arrogant and pale aristocracy of labor when the world is just teeming with docile and cheap non-white labor willing and ready to be exploited and alienated?

    From slavery to the current mass 3rd world immigration mess, wealthy whites have proven time and time again that in many conditions, they certainly prefer employing cheap labor non-whites instead of accepting lower profits while keeping it all racially pure. In short, rich whites are often not mighty white towards white workers!

    The key to getting rich whites to treat working whites fairly is the fear of something worse. It is no accident that the pinnacle rich white fairness towards poor whites was during the height of the Cold War. Poor whites it seemed had "options" to use a game term.

    And so while white identity politics will ultimately fail on the strategic level, there are tactical reasons to embrace it. Citizenism or racially neutral nationalism can indeed work. But the only way to get minorities to give up identity politics is for the majority to start making believable threats to move in that direction. Then establishment figures are called on to denounce white identity politics and are then forced to respond to why they don't also denounce Jewish, Black, Latino, Asian, or Female identity politics.

    Examples of Jewish identity politics are the plethora of explicitly Jewish political organizations. For example. why can Ben Shapiro denounce white identity politics but not the Jewish version:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Jewish-American_political_organizations

    “Examples of Jewish identity politics are the plethora of explicitly Jewish political organizations. For example. why can Ben Shapiro denounce white identity politics but not the Jewish version:”

    There are also Irish and Italian political organizations in The U.S. Your beef should be why are there no WASP political organizations in The U.S. Why aren’t there more Americans who are extremely proud of their English roots like syronredux? Blame American WASPS for not showing enough solidarity with their ancestral homeland of England.

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  85. CK says:
    @Anon
    Americanism vs Atlasism

    Why should Americans carry the burden of the world?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlas_(mythology)#/media/File:Atlas_Santiago_Toural_GFDL.jpg

    “”… what would you tell him to do?”

    I would tell him to shrug.”
    ZFG.
    Prometheus and Sisyphus could then dribble it up the hill to the vultures for them to peck.

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  86. CK says:
    @Anonymous
    Citizen is to Country as Shareholder is to Company.

    If you follow that line of thinking, then citizenship just as a share of stock has a value.
    And different citizenships have different values.
    And it follows that giving away citizenship cheapens the value of the stock.
    Issuing more citizenships would be a matter for the current citizens to decide as to
    amount and price. And selling one’s citizenship would be easily doable. Just another
    asset to be disposed of as and when the holder decides it is most profitable to do so.
    Selling citizenships as so many countries do is a more sensible approach.
    Wonder what a citizenship market akin to the NYSE would look like>
    Which citizenships would be the MSFT or the APPL and which would be the
    “penny stock” equivalents.

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  87. Langley says:
    @sabril
    Have white identity politics emerged in countries with much less Jewish influence than the United States? If not, I would guess that something else is the problem. Most likely virtue signalling among elites who don't want to be seen as "racist."

    I imagine some people might argue that, even though not present, Jews are subtly dominating the entire world. To this I would point out that (1) there are many countries who openly support anti-Israel NGOs and/or who regularly vote against Israel at the United Nations; it is difficult to square this with Jewish dominance.; and (2) if you seriously believe that Jews are subtly controlling the world, don't be surprised when you are accused of anti-Semitism.

    Is there a Jewish influence in China?

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    • Replies: @Jefferson
    "Is there a Jewish influence in China?"

    According to White Nationalists there is even Jewish influence in Madagascar. Jews run everything. The world belongs to them.
  88. Jefferson says:
    @Lot
    Americans have spoken in elections, time and again, that they hate explicit white nationalism. Even in the deep south, even when the conditions are most ripe (surrounded by a 30-40% black population), David Duke types can't even break 10% in GOP primaries.

    The extreme hostility of Jews and their cultural influence is of course part of this, but much more important is the extreme hostility of every Christian denomination, the fact that most of us are descended from people who fought Hitler and his allies, and that most of us have many individual Jews and non-whites that we like. It also is because that explicit WNs tend to be nasty people as individuals, as well as the fact they never really confine their hate to non-whites, but also can't restrain their hate for Jews, Southern Europeans, the Catholic Church, and who knows what else.

    Despite this hostility to white nationalism or even watered down "identitarianism," Americans are OK with a mild implicit version of WN.

    This isn't the same as citizenism, though there is a lot of overlap. For instance, Canadians, Irish, English, and to a slightly lessor extent Israelis and Western Europeans are far more "American" and share more interests with us than an anchor baby, MS-13 gangbanger, or niqab-wearer who may happen to all be US Citizens. Likewise, the mass non-white, anti-white underclass has interests that are objectively hostile to most other Americans, though they are largely US Citizens.

    “This isn’t the same as citizenism, though there is a lot of overlap. For instance, Canadians, Irish, English, and to a slightly lessor extent Israelis and Western Europeans are far more “American” and share more interests with us than an anchor baby, MS-13 gangbanger, or niqab-wearer who may happen to all be US Citizens. Likewise, the mass non-white, anti-white underclass has interests that are objectively hostile to most other Americans, though they are largely US Citizens.”

    If you ever watch a George Lopez stand up show, he talks about White Americans like they are an extremely alien culture to him even though George was born and raised in The United States and has never in his entire life lived in Mexico. There is nothing culturally American about George Lopez even though he is technically an “American”. This is the type of people that Never Trump people like Ron Unz wants to keep importing into The U.S in mass.

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  89. Langley says:
    @Jack D

    Many Jews have strong reasons for their aversion to white identity politics, either irrational (the Cossacks are coming!) or rational (what’s in it for me?).
     
    The last time there was a guy who was really big into white identity politics he wasn't a Cossack, he was a German and six million Jews died, so maybe it's not completely irrational.

    The traditional advocates of "white identity" in America, such as the KKK, weren't really into Jews either and there are some facets of the "alt-right" today who aren't really keen on Jews (or "the Jews" - this is classic anti-Semitism too- my friend Joe is a really nice Jew but the international banker/media Jews are bad) either, so maybe Jews aren't being so irrational. Maybe they'd be keener on "white identity" if they felt secure that they would be included within it, but the messages are mixed at best. In addition to those who say outright that the Jews are a Bolshevik menace, there's another contingent that says, sure you can be white if you give up everything that makes you Jewish. You don't have to outright convert (though we wouldn't mind) but stop talking about Israel and stuff and just become a generic white guy. Most American Jews aren't interested in that deal either.

    Jews may have a lot of financial/media power but Trump was just elected without the support of most of them. Some Jews will (especially if they are made to feel welcome without having to renounce Israel or their religion, as Trump did with his own son in law) join the "white" side on their own. If you want more Jews on your side, you can't use the Hillary strategy for white blue collar voters - insult them until they see the error of their ways. Some you are never going to convince and you shouldn't even try - I again advise the Trump strategy of just bypassing those folks (who are after all a tiny minority concentrated in a few solidly blue states) and appealing directly to the majority of the American people.

    Contra Steve, Jews are not really powerful enough to be a roadblock to white identity politics (at least the Trumpian version) and if welcomed instead of excluded some might even be on the right side of it. The Jews of the South are an example - during the Civil Rights movement of the 50s/60s, lots of Yankee Leftist Jews came down South to oppose racism and organize sit-ins, etc. But the local Jewish community (almost every small Southern town had a handful of long settled Jews descended from the peddlers who had settled down - they owned the dry goods store, the pharmacy, etc.) was completely identified with their white neighbors and customers (and were well aware that blacks were not exactly noble angels) and would have nothing to do with the agitators.

    ” But the local Jewish community (almost every small Southern town had a handful of long settled Jews descended from the peddlers who had settled down – they owned the dry goods store, the pharmacy, etc.) was completely identified with their white neighbors and customers (and were well aware that blacks were not exactly noble angels) and would have nothing to do with the agitators.”

    That is the old Sephardi vs Ashkenazim feud.
    My people are Sephardi on the Elliot side of the family.
    We came up from the Caribbean with the Spanish.
    (Look us up in “The first Jews in America)
    We were not seen by the Ashkenazim as the “right kind of people.”
    We were the people that Moses would not take to the promised land on New York.

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    • Replies: @Jack D
    I think the peddler Jews of the South were mainly Ashkenazi but they came in the earlier 1840s German immigration wave (along with a lot of non-Jewish Germans) rather than the turn of the century E. European Ellis Island wave.

    The early NY Jewish community was also Sephardic - if anything they thought of the later arrivals as the "wrong kind" rather than vice versa. Seixas, Cardozo - they were Jewish blue bloods and socially prominent - the congregation was formed in 1654 so by the time the E. European Jews showed up they had been in NY for over 200 yrs.
  90. Jefferson says:
    @SPMoore8
    I think "Citizenism" is an acceptable alternative to "Nationalism", but it's really just a change of name.

    Most of us when we think of "nationalism" think of what in Europe is essentially "ethnic chauvinism" and while there have been episodes of that in American history they never seem to get very far, largely because intermarriage of different groups is so common, but also because the American ethos has always been pretty much live and let live, do your own thing, if the constraints in A are too strong, just move to B, and so on.

    At the same time it raises the question of where we are going to hang our hat, since a national or ethnic identity in the US isn't going to be supported by religion or race. That's where our shared history, culture, flag, etc. come into play.

    I grew up on the West Coast (Bay Area) and then was in the service for 4 years. Nobody paid any attention -- at least, no one I knew -- to the ethnic background or background of X, Y or Z. There was occasionally some Black/White stuff. But if a black person could speak the King's English nobody really cared. As for Irish, Italian, Jews, Hispanics, Asians? No way.

    Years later I moved to the East Coast, where I have lived for many decades. When I got there, the level of ethnic self-identification was to me incredible. I also thought it was kind of ridiculous. It's much less now, but that's partly because NYC is much less white now. Or at any rate, seems so.

    I think at bottom most Americans are splintered out. They are tired of hearing about the special problems that everyone has because of their niche position (women, blacks, Asians, disabled, LGBTQIA, etc. etc.) Enough already. And straight white guys are tired of being told to care, and tired of being told that they only reason they don't care is because of their privilege. I don't know if a vote for Trump was "the biggest F U in American politics" (I think Megyn Kelly called it that on TV.) But I do know that many Americans have a big F U and a cheerfully raised middle finger for people who keep complaining about how specially oppressed they are.

    This is where I think Trump has a way of arguing for a more inclusive "American" identity. Because we all know what an "American" is, and that's the ordinary person we encounter in our daily life, who speaks English, who understands the culture, and who isn't always trying to draw attention to themselves over their special status.

    “I grew up on the West Coast (Bay Area) and then was in the service for 4 years. Nobody paid any attention — at least, no one I knew — to the ethnic background or background of X, Y or Z.”

    When was the last time you resided in The Bay Area? When Dirty Harry was cleaning up it’s streets in the 1970s? The Bay Area in 2016 is militant identity politics on steroids. There is nothing color blind laid back about The Bay Area in 2016.

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    • Replies: @SPMoore8
    I've been on the East Coast for almost 40 years, and, yes, I know a lot has changed in the Bay Area. After all I still have family there and we communicate regularly. On the other hand, anent another one of your comments, there has been so much crossover among Italians, Poles, Germans, Irish, Scandinavians, in the NY Metro area that actually don't run into that many strong ethnics anymore in my experience. The last two guys I thought met the NJ Italian stereotype turned out to be Dominican and Syrian respectively. And naturally they were thoroughly Americanized.
  91. whorefinder says: • Website

    The Left’s shoving of various disparate white ethnic groups together (Irish, Italian, German, Polish, Scandinavian, etc.) as the “evil other” has, inadvertently, created an Evil Other.

    The Left thought destroying white ethnic communities would create a mere punching bag, but instead it welded together those remaining remnants into a more formidable alliance, if not a full new tribe. For example, Irish and Italians, once bitterest of enemies on the streets, find themselves united against a common enemy in the Leftist non-white hordes villifying and attacking them.

    This is actually not new historically. The Romans shoved German tribes and Eastern European tribes around and entrapped them until the tribes united and beat the Romans back. The Goths were really nothing more than a ragtag group of mostly defeated disparate tribes and refugees that welded together when faced with the twin threats of the Huns about to annihilate them and the Romans refusing them help or protection. This welding created a violent marauding mob that sacked most of the Roman empire and took most of the west when the West collapsed.

    Or look at Ireland. Ireland was notoriously divided by various warring small kingdoms, who would sell each other out at a moment’s notice (notably, the first Anglo-Norman conquerors in Ireland were brought there by a local Irish tribe seeking aid against another Irish tribe), but when Cromwell burned most of the nation to the ground during the War of the Three Kingdoms and asserted harsh dominion, the Irish suddenly began to unite as “Irish” and sought independence, and began a long, bloody, guerilla struggle that lasted till WW1.

    A disparate group of people wedged together for a long enough period and abused will eventually unite as a single tribe and assert tribal goals and desires without remorse. This is history, and the Left has not learned from it.

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  92. countenance says: • Website
    @IHTG
    Judging by the comment about percentages, clearly his argument is "they'll hate it less".

    My point is this:

    If a world view needs Jewish permission to be nationally credible, and Jews neither approve of WN nor citizenism, and we know from the current year that they don’t approve of citizenism, and the slight margins to which they might approve of citizenism instead of WN aren’t enough to matter, then our decision on whether to pursue WN or citizenism should not be informed by what the Jews are going to do or not do.

    However, another thing the current year taught us is that the Jews aren’t the universal gatekeeper, that they don’t always get what they want. Trump won, didn’t he?

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    • Replies: @IHTG

    the slight margins to which they might approve of citizenism instead of WN aren’t enough to matter
     
    Don't be so sure!

    Hey Steve, run this through Google Translate, it'll knock your socks off: http://www.nrg.co.il/online/1/ART2/848/584.html?hp=1&cat=479&loc=3

  93. Jefferson says:
    @Dr. X

    In other words, what historian Hugh Davis Graham called attention to in the title of his 2002 book, Collision Course: The Strange Convergence of Affirmative Action and Immigration Policy in America, can’t go on forever. The mounting “racial ratio“ of nonwhite beneficiaries to white benefactors means the system will inevitably break down under the weight of numbers. At that point, white consciousness could be forced into existence.
     
    Exactly so. One of the most appalling things about immigration (both legal and illegal) from brown and black Third World countries is that immigrants are given preferential treatment over native born whites for jobs and university admissions.

    I think that affirmative action is a blatant perversion of the Fourteenth Amendment and obviously illegal on the face of it, but nonetheless the Supreme Court has upheld it on numerous occasions. But the idea the children of illegal aliens from Mexico will be absolutely given preferential treatment over native born whites due to having Hispanic surnames and brown skin ought to have whites rioting in the streets. (Instead, liberal whites are rioting on behalf of the illegals who are displacing them. How insane is that?)

    By the time whites figure this out, they will indeed be a dispossessed minority in their own country and by then it will be too late.

    ” (Instead, liberal whites are rioting on behalf of the illegals who are displacing them. How insane is that?)”

    The White Liberal rioters in Portland are lazy bums. They benefit off of illegal immigration because than they don’t have to do those undesirable blue collar jobs that illegals do like changing the bed sheets at the local Ramada in Portland and painting houses for example.

    Whites in Portland do not have a strong work ethic like Whites in Flyover Country states like West Virginia and Ohio who bust their asses working in coal mines and working as plumbers for example.

    White privilege applies to Whites in Portland way more than it applies to Whites in Flyover Country.

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  94. IHTG says:
    @countenance
    My point is this:

    If a world view needs Jewish permission to be nationally credible, and Jews neither approve of WN nor citizenism, and we know from the current year that they don't approve of citizenism, and the slight margins to which they might approve of citizenism instead of WN aren't enough to matter, then our decision on whether to pursue WN or citizenism should not be informed by what the Jews are going to do or not do.

    However, another thing the current year taught us is that the Jews aren't the universal gatekeeper, that they don't always get what they want. Trump won, didn't he?

    the slight margins to which they might approve of citizenism instead of WN aren’t enough to matter

    Don’t be so sure!

    Hey Steve, run this through Google Translate, it’ll knock your socks off: http://www.nrg.co.il/online/1/ART2/848/584.html?hp=1&cat=479&loc=3

    Read More
  95. Jack D says:
    @Langley
    " But the local Jewish community (almost every small Southern town had a handful of long settled Jews descended from the peddlers who had settled down – they owned the dry goods store, the pharmacy, etc.) was completely identified with their white neighbors and customers (and were well aware that blacks were not exactly noble angels) and would have nothing to do with the agitators."

    That is the old Sephardi vs Ashkenazim feud.
    My people are Sephardi on the Elliot side of the family.
    We came up from the Caribbean with the Spanish.
    (Look us up in "The first Jews in America)
    We were not seen by the Ashkenazim as the "right kind of people."
    We were the people that Moses would not take to the promised land on New York.

    I think the peddler Jews of the South were mainly Ashkenazi but they came in the earlier 1840s German immigration wave (along with a lot of non-Jewish Germans) rather than the turn of the century E. European Ellis Island wave.

    The early NY Jewish community was also Sephardic – if anything they thought of the later arrivals as the “wrong kind” rather than vice versa. Seixas, Cardozo – they were Jewish blue bloods and socially prominent – the congregation was formed in 1654 so by the time the E. European Jews showed up they had been in NY for over 200 yrs.

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  96. Jefferson says:
    @Jack D

    Many Jews have strong reasons for their aversion to white identity politics, either irrational (the Cossacks are coming!) or rational (what’s in it for me?).
     
    The last time there was a guy who was really big into white identity politics he wasn't a Cossack, he was a German and six million Jews died, so maybe it's not completely irrational.

    The traditional advocates of "white identity" in America, such as the KKK, weren't really into Jews either and there are some facets of the "alt-right" today who aren't really keen on Jews (or "the Jews" - this is classic anti-Semitism too- my friend Joe is a really nice Jew but the international banker/media Jews are bad) either, so maybe Jews aren't being so irrational. Maybe they'd be keener on "white identity" if they felt secure that they would be included within it, but the messages are mixed at best. In addition to those who say outright that the Jews are a Bolshevik menace, there's another contingent that says, sure you can be white if you give up everything that makes you Jewish. You don't have to outright convert (though we wouldn't mind) but stop talking about Israel and stuff and just become a generic white guy. Most American Jews aren't interested in that deal either.

    Jews may have a lot of financial/media power but Trump was just elected without the support of most of them. Some Jews will (especially if they are made to feel welcome without having to renounce Israel or their religion, as Trump did with his own son in law) join the "white" side on their own. If you want more Jews on your side, you can't use the Hillary strategy for white blue collar voters - insult them until they see the error of their ways. Some you are never going to convince and you shouldn't even try - I again advise the Trump strategy of just bypassing those folks (who are after all a tiny minority concentrated in a few solidly blue states) and appealing directly to the majority of the American people.

    Contra Steve, Jews are not really powerful enough to be a roadblock to white identity politics (at least the Trumpian version) and if welcomed instead of excluded some might even be on the right side of it. The Jews of the South are an example - during the Civil Rights movement of the 50s/60s, lots of Yankee Leftist Jews came down South to oppose racism and organize sit-ins, etc. But the local Jewish community (almost every small Southern town had a handful of long settled Jews descended from the peddlers who had settled down - they owned the dry goods store, the pharmacy, etc.) was completely identified with their white neighbors and customers (and were well aware that blacks were not exactly noble angels) and would have nothing to do with the agitators.

    “In addition to those who say outright that the Jews are a Bolshevik menace, there’s another contingent that says, sure you can be white if you give up everything that makes you Jewish. You don’t have to outright convert (though we wouldn’t mind) but stop talking about Israel and stuff and just become a generic white guy. Most American Jews aren’t interested in that deal either.”

    White Nationalism doesn’t attract a lot of Italians either. Good luck trying to convince the average blue collar New Jersey/New York Italian to stop talking about being Italian and just be a generic White guy like super WASP Mitt Romney. Stop celebrating Christopher Columbus Day, stop saying fuggedaboutit, stop quoting lines from The Godfather & The Sopranos, and cut down on the Italian food intake.

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  97. Why not “Europeanism”? As has been pointed out “white” isn’t really a coherent culture, nor are its boundaries clearly defined (Egyptians? Indians? Turks?). And focusing on European culture and civilization as the fundamental building block for US identity cannot be attacked (as least not as easily) for being racist.

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  98. Tracy says: • Website

    Any movement that ties itself to “whiteness” is doomed to fail, and, to be blunt about it, I think it should. Racial identity politics sucks, no matter where it comes from. Though race undoubtedly affects culture, it’s culture that’s truly important, which is why I refer to “European and European-derived” people (EEDs) instead of “whites.”

    1) The word “white” freaks people out and, because of how the media treat “whiteness,” automatically leads the unthinking to the word “Nazi.” It’s unfair given how all other racial groups are not only allowed but encouraged to stand up for themselves as racial groups, but if we don’t deal with reality, then we’re playing a losing game. It’s the SJWs who go on about “fairness”; we’re smarter than that. Or should be. Pointing out their hypocrisy is one thing, but to ignore reality — well, isn’t that a mark of insanity?

    2) I’m a race realist, not a racist, and am fine with black people, Asians, or whoever, as long as they adapt to the EED culture that made America great. If any given members of those groups share the EED vision of the True, Good, and Beautiful, all rooted in classical Christianity, then s’all good by me. If everyone in the African American community were to wake up tomorrow and become race realists and were to see the beauty and wisdom of the EED approach to the True, Good, and Beautiful, then I don’t see any problems other than those that stem from general racial IQ differences, all of which could be ameliorated if EEDs were to embrace Christian charity and show true compassion; if our industry were restored so jobs were available for those who aren’t med school material; if the trades were “revalorized,” as Paglia puts it, so that honor is seen in the honest work of blue collar laborers; if black outliers were encouraged to thrive; and if the racial bean counters — the TRUE racists — would go away.

    I guess I could summarize my take on things by saying that identity politics — including “white” identity politics — needs to die, EED culture needs to be restored, and trouble-makers need to be locked up.

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    • Replies: @ben tillman

    Any movement that ties itself to “whiteness” is doomed to fail, and, to be blunt about it, I think it should. Racial identity politics sucks, no matter where it comes from. Though race undoubtedly affects culture, it’s culture that’s truly important....
     
    No. You don't believe what you just wrote. You don't believe that your life is less important than your culture. No one does.

    It's life that's important. And, since whites are under collective attack by others engaging in racial identity politics, racial identity politics of some sort is necessary for whites to continue their life on this planet.

  99. @Lot
    Americans have spoken in elections, time and again, that they hate explicit white nationalism. Even in the deep south, even when the conditions are most ripe (surrounded by a 30-40% black population), David Duke types can't even break 10% in GOP primaries.

    The extreme hostility of Jews and their cultural influence is of course part of this, but much more important is the extreme hostility of every Christian denomination, the fact that most of us are descended from people who fought Hitler and his allies, and that most of us have many individual Jews and non-whites that we like. It also is because that explicit WNs tend to be nasty people as individuals, as well as the fact they never really confine their hate to non-whites, but also can't restrain their hate for Jews, Southern Europeans, the Catholic Church, and who knows what else.

    Despite this hostility to white nationalism or even watered down "identitarianism," Americans are OK with a mild implicit version of WN.

    This isn't the same as citizenism, though there is a lot of overlap. For instance, Canadians, Irish, English, and to a slightly lessor extent Israelis and Western Europeans are far more "American" and share more interests with us than an anchor baby, MS-13 gangbanger, or niqab-wearer who may happen to all be US Citizens. Likewise, the mass non-white, anti-white underclass has interests that are objectively hostile to most other Americans, though they are largely US Citizens.

    All true. But some of our reluctance to identify racially comes from our race having been on top for nearly 500 years. We’re like trust fund kids who spend their lives searching for meaning.

    The big question is what will whites think when they’ve been pushed around for a generation or two. Will they still believe that they are part of a global community or will they realize that they can only trust their own?

    My bet is on the latter, but I certainly could be wrong.

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  100. SPMoore8 says:
    @Jefferson
    "I grew up on the West Coast (Bay Area) and then was in the service for 4 years. Nobody paid any attention — at least, no one I knew — to the ethnic background or background of X, Y or Z."

    When was the last time you resided in The Bay Area? When Dirty Harry was cleaning up it's streets in the 1970s? The Bay Area in 2016 is militant identity politics on steroids. There is nothing color blind laid back about The Bay Area in 2016.

    I’ve been on the East Coast for almost 40 years, and, yes, I know a lot has changed in the Bay Area. After all I still have family there and we communicate regularly. On the other hand, anent another one of your comments, there has been so much crossover among Italians, Poles, Germans, Irish, Scandinavians, in the NY Metro area that actually don’t run into that many strong ethnics anymore in my experience. The last two guys I thought met the NJ Italian stereotype turned out to be Dominican and Syrian respectively. And naturally they were thoroughly Americanized.

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    • Replies: @Jefferson
    "The last two guys I thought met the NJ Italian stereotype turned out to be Dominican"

    I have never met a Dominican who can pass for Italian. The "Whitest" Dominicans I have seen look like North Africans.

  101. Tracy says: • Website
    @Jefferson
    The Left's extreme hatred on steroids of White people has caused many people who used to see themselves as Americans first and White second, to adopt White identity politics or at least be curious about it.

    True, but I think the true elites, the powers that be, see that as a feature and not a bug. The typical SJW on the street would be horrified to learn that his incessant anti-white talk is possibly helping to bring about Nazism or “white identity” politics, but the powers behind the scenes WANT a race war. That’s why Soros does what he does. They want conflict and, then, for people to be so fed up with the violence that they willingly give up their guns, opt for a federalized police force or for the UN to come in and clear things up.

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  102. Jefferson says:
    @Jack D
    I assume you saw the column by the liberal guy in the NY Times a few days ago who made essentially the same argument as you just did? Some of the readership accepted it but there were quite a few who objected violently. There are a lot of people in the US now who derive their whole identity from their grievance group. A lot of them make their living off of these grievances - they are professional grievance mongers. What you saw back in the day from old line NY ethnics was NOTHING compared to the way these people have wrapped up their whole identity and livelihood in being something other than generic "Americans". They are not going back to the old way without a big fight.

    “I assume you saw the column by the liberal guy in the NY Times a few days ago who made essentially the same argument as you just did? Some of the readership accepted it but there were quite a few who objected violently.”

    Did the people who objected violently say which race or ethnic group they belong to?

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  103. Jefferson says:
    @SPMoore8
    I've been on the East Coast for almost 40 years, and, yes, I know a lot has changed in the Bay Area. After all I still have family there and we communicate regularly. On the other hand, anent another one of your comments, there has been so much crossover among Italians, Poles, Germans, Irish, Scandinavians, in the NY Metro area that actually don't run into that many strong ethnics anymore in my experience. The last two guys I thought met the NJ Italian stereotype turned out to be Dominican and Syrian respectively. And naturally they were thoroughly Americanized.

    “The last two guys I thought met the NJ Italian stereotype turned out to be Dominican”

    I have never met a Dominican who can pass for Italian. The “Whitest” Dominicans I have seen look like North Africans.

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  104. BenKenobi says:
    @SPMoore8
    Right, that was the Mark Lilla article; I linked to it at the time because I had been saying something similar here and in other venues in the preceding days. And yes, also, the top rated comment was some angry lesbian who was deeply insulted that some straight white guy was ignoring all of her special hurdles, etc. etc.

    No, the self-regarding fringes are not going to go quietly. But it was a mistake to give them that much attention in the first place.

    I predict there will be a backlash; not in terms of violence, just in terms of avoidance.

    it was a mistake to give them that much attention in the first place.

    Worst of all is that they actually believe the propaganda — they can do no wrong and anything they dream up off the top of their heads is owed to them because oppression.

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  105. Jefferson says:
    @Langley
    Is there a Jewish influence in China?

    “Is there a Jewish influence in China?”

    According to White Nationalists there is even Jewish influence in Madagascar. Jews run everything. The world belongs to them.

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  106. A certain degree of white nationalism is inevitable in a colonial country with a significant white working class. The US, South Africa, Australia, Canada, New Zealand all have white nationalist movements which started in the late 19th Century in response to the ending of slavery and the threat of Asian immigration. In today’s liberal age, white nationalism is implicit rather than explicit, but it is highly likely to become more implicit if whites become an ethnic minority.

    The only colonial countries were there is little white nationalism are South American countries like Peru and Colombia where their has never been a large white working class. And even in South America there is some white nationalism. For example, there is a growing level of tea party style white nationalism in Southern Brazil.

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  107. NOTA says:
    @Jefferson
    The Left's extreme hatred on steroids of White people has caused many people who used to see themselves as Americans first and White second, to adopt White identity politics or at least be curious about it.

    It’s worse than that–a big chunk of the left has decided to define voting for Trump as support for white nationalism or explicit racism or whatever. They’re doing the same routine as some Arab dictator who defines all opposition as Islamic fundamentalist terrorism for PR reasons, and later discovers that he’s convinced all the dissenters in his country that they’d better join ISIS or Al Qaida, since they are by definition the only real opposition.

    Racial identity politics is a disaster for the country. But the rhetoric and propaganda in widespread use right now is potentially going to bring us there, despite the fact that this is the last thing those media types actually want.

    Read More
  108. Jacobite says:

    Correct pronunciation of “citizenism” would make for an excellent sobriety test.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Jeeves
    But only for the first DUI. Recidivism for that offense is high.
  109. NOTA says:
    @Tim Howells
    Fortunately I think that the idea of "media gatekeepers" is obsolete in the age of Trump. I'm not sure the American public is quite ready for explicit White identity politics, but I think we're almost there. The gatekeepers are currently shell-shocked and I don't see them ever recovering from this crushing defeat.

    I agree that the media gatekeepers are losing prestige almost as quickly as they’re losing money. But the resistance to white identity politics is driven far more by the widespread belief that they’re either evil or a path to wrecking the nation–a belief common among whites.

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  110. White nationalism. On the one hand, there is the Stormfront, Kevin MacDonald, David Duke wing. On the other hand are kinder gentler folks like Richard Spencer who merely want to “peacefully” exile Jews from his new America. Right now, the cossacks are looking pretty good by comparison. There’s nothing irrational about Jewish suspicions of white nationalists. It’s basically Nazism without the hatred of Slavs.

    Most Jews also can’t understand why anyone would object to living near Asians.

    Anti-White policies are a real problem in America (for Jews and non-Jews). Note that Asians are usually counted as “white” for discriminatory purposes (see the shakedown of Silicon Valley).

    With cooperation, there should be a strong consensus against “affirmative action,” and for protecting the safety and school quality of suburban neighborhoods.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Opinionator
    White nationalism. On the one hand, there is the Stormfront, Kevin MacDonald, David Duke wing. On the other hand are kinder gentler folks like Richard Spencer who merely want to “peacefully” exile Jews from his new America. Right now, the cossacks are looking pretty good by comparison. There’s nothing irrational about Jewish suspicions of white nationalists. It’s basically Nazism without the hatred of Slavs.

    The prevailing meaning of White nationalism is just maintaining a nation state with a White majority, and defending it against attempts to re-engineer the demographics. A White and democratic state, but without the kind of expulsions and apartheid-treatment that the jews have imposed on Palestinian Gentiles.
  111. NOTA says:
    @Jack D
    At some point the system of preferences collapses from its own weight, as Steve points out. When everyone is special then no one is special. You can get away with doing AA for 10 or 20% of the population but AA for 60% of the population is not sustainable - at that point it's white people who are the oppressed minority and they are going to want their own AA. The old canard is that we go seamlessly from a situation where you can't get rid of AA because the beneficiaries are too weak to a situation where you can't get rid of it because they are too powerful, but in the end you don't have to get rid of it because it becomes meaningless.

    I don’t think it becomes unsustainable, just more of a burden. But you can certainly imagine each beneficiary group fighting like hell to keep their slice of the pie or expand it, even as the pie is made smaller by their efforts. I’ve seen people proposing to extend AA to lower-class rural whites. That’s one step on the road to making AA something that can never go away.

    In each class of beneficiaries, it is the most ambitious and upwardly mobile who will benefit the most (and fight the hardest) for their kids to get preference to go to Ruling Class University.

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  112. Kylie says:
    @Mr. Blank
    I wish something like "citizenism" could gain traction so I'd have something handy to describe myself. I note from my Facebook feed that my liberal friends have discovered the term "alt-right," which they see as a synonym for "Nazi." Seriously, it's a coordinated thing -- practically overnight I'm seeing my libtard friends flood the site with "alt-right = Nazi" memes.

    Maybe you need to edit your Friends list.

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  113. No, the much more serious roadblock to the emergence of white identity politics: more Jews don’t want it to happen than do want it to happen.

    Movie metaphors can be imprecise, but I’m reminded of this scene in T2: Judgment Day. I’m not sure where the country will go demographically under President Trump, but a presumed Rising Tide of Color combined with increasing all-around identity-based conflict will further polarize whites into White Nationalists vs. Lennonists.

    The embryonic détente called “citizenism” will be unceremoniously aborted. Jews will have to decide to throw in with White Nationalists or not.

    [Jared Taylor] has striven manfully and graciously over the years to make Jews feel welcome in his movement and many Jews have written for American Renaissance.

    If it all comes down to race war, the more magnanimous White Nationalists have been signalling to ‘woke’ Jews: “Come with us if you want to live.”

    Read More
    • Replies: @B25
    Citizenism and civic nationalism must die for white people to have a chance to live, there is no middle group because as Tracy said the two ideas are fundamentally opposed to each other.
    , @BenKenobi
    Great comment.

    I still like to use the term "White Zionist" as opposed to "White Nationalist" -- it's a provocative, aggressive fig-leaf that doesn't immediately trigger crimestop.

    A movie metaphor I like is at the end of Matrix 3 when Neo is speaking "face-to-face" with the Machine Intelligence:

    Neo: "The program [diversity] has grown beyond your control. You can't stop it, but [we] can."

    AI: "What do you want?"

    Neo: "Peace."
  114. Cc523 says: • Website

    If Arabic culture is a low empathy culture then how come Arabs are know for their hospitality? And what about the pashtun custom of pashtunwali?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Opinionator
    They've killed far fewer of us than we have of them.
    , @Tracy
    I can't claim to know, but there's the possibility that Arab hospitality is more a matter of honor or of showing off than it is about truly wanting guests to feel welcome and cozy and to have their needs and desires met. Think, for ex., of those $12 million dollar bar mitzvahs: they're not about those invited to share in the experience of a "boy becoming a man"; they're about flaunting wealth and keeping up with the Joneses -- er, the Goldbergs. A little sampler - a pupu platter, if you will -- of what goes on in the monied bar (and bat) mitzvah world:

    Inside James Franco’s extravagant Bar Mitzvah. Excerpts:

    On Yom Kippur, Sept. 23, 2015, a rowdy crowd of 15,000 celebrity guests assembled at California’s Our Lady of Chutzpah Church as actor and filmmaker James Franco became a bar mitzvah. Franco, whose mother is a Russian-Jewish immigrant, described the deep meaning and fulfillment of Judaism in his life that motivated him to pursue a bar mitzvah at age 37.

    “My mother instilled in me a strong sense of Jewish identity growing up, as I was taught to only curse in Yiddish, exclusively date Jewish girls, and not to eat pastrami on white bread with mayonnaise, as that would be extremely goyish,” Franco said. “My first words were not ‘mama’ or ‘dada.’ They were ‘schvitz’ and ‘shmutz.’ ”

    Franco’s quest to become a bar mitzvah began several years ago with a memorable trip to the Holy Land through Birthright Israel. He described the experience as a rediscovery of his commitment to the Jewish values of charity and selflessness.

    “During the bus ride from the Israeli airport, I was moved to tears as I swiped my credit card on the side of the tzedakah box,” Franco said. “I learned to make incredible sacrifices on the Birthright trip, such as going without free Wi-Fi and embracing hummus as a food group.”...

    ... Highlights of the evening included spectacular performances by several well-known musicians and vocalists. Taylor Swift and Kanye West kicked off the evening’s entertainment with a dramatic duet.

    “I was honored to play at this momentous occasion,” Swift said. “I’ve always wanted to be Jewish, and I decided to forgive Kanye for all of his insults and make up as friends in the spirit of Yom Kippur.”
     
    Big Bucks and Pink Thrones: The Most Over-the-Top Bar Mitzvahs in Recent History. Excerpts:

    Young Benjamin Fiedler just returned from a lavish Titanic-themed party held logically, though maybe with a note of morbidity, on a cruise ship. This was simply the bar mitzvah of his friend Arnie Stein. As Benjamin also prepares to turn thirteen, he can barely read his haftorah while trying to figure out what it means to become a man. Meanwhile, his parents nearly drive themselves crazy in an attempt to outdo Stein’s event by renting Dodger Stadium for Benjamin’s party. The ensuing events result in hilarity.

    If this sounds familiar, it is either because it’s the plot of the 2006 film “Keeping Up With The Steins,” or it rings all too true with your personal observations. Simple synagogue gatherings or house parties with bubbe as the caterer are now a thing of the past. Most bar/bat mitzvahs fit more comfortably in the “extravaganza” category, but in recent years, some have blown the rest right out of the water...

    ...3. Mixing business with bar mitzvah

    Consider the Ridinger family. Bat mitzvah girl Amber wore a $27,000 Dolce & Gabbana gown and $100,000 crystals at her party at the Miami Beach club the Forge, reported MTV. The guests walked into the venue on a pink carpet and partied to musical entertainment by Ja Rule and Ashanti. The club’s cellar was transformed into a “candy land” with chocolate colored drapes.

    “Well, diamonds are a girl’s best friend,” Amber Ridinger said. Let’s not forget that every party can be a business opportunity. The eighth-grader took care to debut her line of club clothes, Gossip, and her commercial perfume, Amber No. 13....

    ...1. Mitzvahpalooza

    In an event that had jaws dropping across the country, multimillionaire Long Island defense contractor David H. Brooks booked two floors of a banquet facility for the more-than-lavish bat mitzvah of his daughter in 2005, the New York Post reported. Dubbed, “Mitzvahpalooza,” Brooks had a stage built, brought in jumbotrons, and installed special carpeting for a concert most people would die for.

    Names in the lineup included Steven Tyler and Joe Perry from Aerosmith, The Eagles’ Don Henley and Joe Walsh, Fleetwood Mac’s Steve Nicks, Tom Petty, and—so the younger crowd could recognize a few names too—DJ AM, Ciara, and 50 Cent. Kenny G serenaded the guests on sax during cocktail hour. Apparently Tyler and Perry even tried to humor Brooks when he jumped on stage and demanded to let his nephew play the drums. Guests left the event with iPods and digital cameras in goodie bags.

    The total cost for the blowout? A cool $10 million. Five years later, Brooks was found guilty of insider trading and committing $185 million fraud—using his company, DHB Industries, to pay for his personal expenses. At least his daughter reaped some of the benefits?
     
    A band-posted video uploaded to promote the fact that they play bar mitzvahs:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Js_eC84Prr4

    Must be rough, eh? BTW, just FYI, the bar mitzvah thing is a medieval invention, something Lord Christ would've never encountered during His time on earth. Another post-Christian invention: the modern method of circumcision, the method that is practiced nowadays in the West, for God only knows what reason. For more about that, see the FishEaters page on Circumcision.
    , @anon
    It's not exactly low empathy as extremely high empathy to close kin leaving none left over for strangers.

    The guest/host paradigm is a necessary cultural development in a society like that as otherwise no one could travel outside their valley without getting robbed and killed.

  115. Svigor says:

    Most Jews also can’t understand why anyone would object to living near Asians.

    And think Yellows/Jews objecting to living near Whites (see China, Japan, Israel) is hunkey-dorey. Like I said, more immorality than irrationality.

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  116. George says:

    Rep. Phyllis Kahn says Ilhan Omar gets “liberal, white guilt-trip” voters

    http://www.citypages.com/news/rep-phyllis-kahn-says-ilhan-omar-gets-liberal-white-guilt-trip-voters-8381897

    Rep. Phyllis Kahn, DFL-Minneapolis, … at 43 years and counting, she’s tied for the longest career in House history.

    Read More
  117. @Chrisnonymous
    If Jews are herbs and spices, who gets to be the matzah ball?

    I thought about matzah ball soup when I wrote this.

    You see, my wife is an Eastern European goy who works magic in the kitchen. She has taught me that so-called “Jewish” foods, like matzah ball soup, are really just foods that she grew up with and cooks for me.

    The Jews lived in certain parts of Europe and were part of the culinary history. Chicken soup, matzah ball soup, etc. It’s all a big, delicious mix over there, and every culture claims the same things as its own. Every language has its own name for the same foods. Every people will proudly state that “this is our food.”

    Sure, there are specific things to each culture, and variations. Vive la difference.

    Pretty funny, and harmless if you ask me.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Jack D
    Generally speaking the Jews in E. Europe ate a subset of the local diet (no pork, shellfish or mixing of meat and dairy cut out a lot of recipes) because local food was all that there was. Matzah balls are somewhat of an exception in that matzah itself is a Jewish ritual food that non-Jews wouldn't have used. However, matzah balls are a type of bread dumpling or Knödel which are a common German item. All of these recipes were foods of poverty - instead of throwing out stale bread or leftover matzah (eaten mostly on Passover) you would soak it with liquid/eggs and recycle it into something else (same idea as french toast).

    But other items are completely identical in their Jewish and non-Jewish version. The best "Jewish" style rye bread I ever had was in a Polish restaurant in Krakow .
  118. Jack D says:
    @Buzz Mohawk
    I thought about matzah ball soup when I wrote this.

    You see, my wife is an Eastern European goy who works magic in the kitchen. She has taught me that so-called "Jewish" foods, like matzah ball soup, are really just foods that she grew up with and cooks for me.

    The Jews lived in certain parts of Europe and were part of the culinary history. Chicken soup, matzah ball soup, etc. It's all a big, delicious mix over there, and every culture claims the same things as its own. Every language has its own name for the same foods. Every people will proudly state that "this is our food."

    Sure, there are specific things to each culture, and variations. Vive la difference.

    Pretty funny, and harmless if you ask me.

    Generally speaking the Jews in E. Europe ate a subset of the local diet (no pork, shellfish or mixing of meat and dairy cut out a lot of recipes) because local food was all that there was. Matzah balls are somewhat of an exception in that matzah itself is a Jewish ritual food that non-Jews wouldn’t have used. However, matzah balls are a type of bread dumpling or Knödel which are a common German item. All of these recipes were foods of poverty – instead of throwing out stale bread or leftover matzah (eaten mostly on Passover) you would soak it with liquid/eggs and recycle it into something else (same idea as french toast).

    But other items are completely identical in their Jewish and non-Jewish version. The best “Jewish” style rye bread I ever had was in a Polish restaurant in Krakow .

    Read More
    • Replies: @Buzz Mohawk

    All of these recipes were foods of poverty...
     
    That's right, but nobody has a monopoly on poverty.

    My wife and her people experienced the worst kind of poverty you can imagine. Actually, you probably can't imagine it, because I doubt you grew up under a communist dictatorship where you waited in line for bread and they shut off your heat and electricity at odd times of the winter night.

    I'm sure Roquefort cheese resulted from moldy old stuff in old France. These things become cherished delicacies after people discover they taste good. America has it's own examples, like southern barbecues and soul food that turn cheap cuts into the best stuff in the world.

    It's all good.

    Happy Thanksgiving! (Turkeys are another modest food that was found in America during hard times and turned into a tradition.)
    , @Opinionator
    Generally speaking the Jews in E. Europe ate a subset of the local diet (no pork, shellfish or mixing of meat and dairy cut out a lot of recipes) because local food was all that there was.

    Why wouldn't they assimilate?
  119. @Jack D
    Generally speaking the Jews in E. Europe ate a subset of the local diet (no pork, shellfish or mixing of meat and dairy cut out a lot of recipes) because local food was all that there was. Matzah balls are somewhat of an exception in that matzah itself is a Jewish ritual food that non-Jews wouldn't have used. However, matzah balls are a type of bread dumpling or Knödel which are a common German item. All of these recipes were foods of poverty - instead of throwing out stale bread or leftover matzah (eaten mostly on Passover) you would soak it with liquid/eggs and recycle it into something else (same idea as french toast).

    But other items are completely identical in their Jewish and non-Jewish version. The best "Jewish" style rye bread I ever had was in a Polish restaurant in Krakow .

    All of these recipes were foods of poverty…

    That’s right, but nobody has a monopoly on poverty.

    My wife and her people experienced the worst kind of poverty you can imagine. Actually, you probably can’t imagine it, because I doubt you grew up under a communist dictatorship where you waited in line for bread and they shut off your heat and electricity at odd times of the winter night.

    I’m sure Roquefort cheese resulted from moldy old stuff in old France. These things become cherished delicacies after people discover they taste good. America has it’s own examples, like southern barbecues and soul food that turn cheap cuts into the best stuff in the world.

    It’s all good.

    Happy Thanksgiving! (Turkeys are another modest food that was found in America during hard times and turned into a tradition.)

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  120. Why the focus on America? It seems like Australia has a pretty red pilled immigration policy, for example. They are also their own continent. So that makes immigration a bit more difficult.

    Instead of trying to red pill the entire world, maybe we should just focus on red pilling a single country.

    http://www.nationalreview.com/article/219463/libertarianism-one-country-john-derbyshire

    Read More
  121. @Jack D
    Generally speaking the Jews in E. Europe ate a subset of the local diet (no pork, shellfish or mixing of meat and dairy cut out a lot of recipes) because local food was all that there was. Matzah balls are somewhat of an exception in that matzah itself is a Jewish ritual food that non-Jews wouldn't have used. However, matzah balls are a type of bread dumpling or Knödel which are a common German item. All of these recipes were foods of poverty - instead of throwing out stale bread or leftover matzah (eaten mostly on Passover) you would soak it with liquid/eggs and recycle it into something else (same idea as french toast).

    But other items are completely identical in their Jewish and non-Jewish version. The best "Jewish" style rye bread I ever had was in a Polish restaurant in Krakow .

    Generally speaking the Jews in E. Europe ate a subset of the local diet (no pork, shellfish or mixing of meat and dairy cut out a lot of recipes) because local food was all that there was.

    Why wouldn’t they assimilate?

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  122. @Cc523
    If Arabic culture is a low empathy culture then how come Arabs are know for their hospitality? And what about the pashtun custom of pashtunwali?

    They’ve killed far fewer of us than we have of them.

    Read More
  123. @Judah Benjamin Hur
    White nationalism. On the one hand, there is the Stormfront, Kevin MacDonald, David Duke wing. On the other hand are kinder gentler folks like Richard Spencer who merely want to "peacefully" exile Jews from his new America. Right now, the cossacks are looking pretty good by comparison. There's nothing irrational about Jewish suspicions of white nationalists. It's basically Nazism without the hatred of Slavs.

    Most Jews also can't understand why anyone would object to living near Asians.

    Anti-White policies are a real problem in America (for Jews and non-Jews). Note that Asians are usually counted as "white" for discriminatory purposes (see the shakedown of Silicon Valley).

    With cooperation, there should be a strong consensus against "affirmative action," and for protecting the safety and school quality of suburban neighborhoods.

    White nationalism. On the one hand, there is the Stormfront, Kevin MacDonald, David Duke wing. On the other hand are kinder gentler folks like Richard Spencer who merely want to “peacefully” exile Jews from his new America. Right now, the cossacks are looking pretty good by comparison. There’s nothing irrational about Jewish suspicions of white nationalists. It’s basically Nazism without the hatred of Slavs.

    The prevailing meaning of White nationalism is just maintaining a nation state with a White majority, and defending it against attempts to re-engineer the demographics. A White and democratic state, but without the kind of expulsions and apartheid-treatment that the jews have imposed on Palestinian Gentiles.

    Read More
  124. B25 says: • Website
    @Jenner Ickham Errican

    No, the much more serious roadblock to the emergence of white identity politics: more Jews don’t want it to happen than do want it to happen.
     
    Movie metaphors can be imprecise, but I’m reminded of this scene in T2: Judgment Day. I’m not sure where the country will go demographically under President Trump, but a presumed Rising Tide of Color combined with increasing all-around identity-based conflict will further polarize whites into White Nationalists vs. Lennonists.

    The embryonic détente called “citizenism” will be unceremoniously aborted. Jews will have to decide to throw in with White Nationalists or not.

    [Jared Taylor] has striven manfully and graciously over the years to make Jews feel welcome in his movement and many Jews have written for American Renaissance.

     

    If it all comes down to race war, the more magnanimous White Nationalists have been signalling to ‘woke’ Jews: “Come with us if you want to live.”

    Citizenism and civic nationalism must die for white people to have a chance to live, there is no middle group because as Tracy said the two ideas are fundamentally opposed to each other.

    Read More
  125. @Anonymous
    I go back and forth between here and mainstream media.
    It's dizzying, and needs the mind's translation module constantly on.

    I guess when you say "White identitarianism" you mean what the head of one of those famous organizations fighting against the powerful who harass the weak and defenseless, has called "nativist racism" and "white supremacy"?

    I've read on a reputable blog that Taylor is gathering fascists and Nazis and a new Nazi era is dawning.

    Can you confirm, Sailer?

    “I’ve read on a reputable blog that Taylor is gathering fascists and Nazis and a new Nazi era is dawning.”

    What blog?

    Read More
  126. Anon says: • Disclaimer
    @MichaelRolls
    It would help a lot if the Richard Spencers of the world weren't doing their nazi-Germany historical recreation society gestures at otherwise respectable conferences.

    Idenititarianism or citizenism... the most important thing is to have a kick-ass marketing department so that blokes in swastika t-shirts don't get to attend the meeting, even if they do claim they're just Sex Pistols fans and really like Sid Vicious' style.

    “It would help a lot if the Richard Spencers of the world weren’t doing their nazi-Germany historical recreation society gestures at otherwise respectable conferences.”

    No, you’re missing the point of Alt Right.

    Alt Right does not flow from respectability. It is the enfant terribles of the Right. It has to be edgy. Now, Alt Right has a place for the staid and respectable.

    Kevin Macdonald is rather a diligent pedantic scholar of Jewish history and power. He doesn’t have style and flair. He is offering a counter-culture-of-critique.
    He is considered dangerous and heretical(even outrageous) by MSM because his views are so politically incorrect. But he is not a trouble-maker, a bomb thrower, a visionary, or leader.
    Jared Taylor is also a respectable figure. He is well-mannered and dignified in style. But he too is unwelcome and considered dangerous by the MSM for his views that are inimical to standard PC.

    Neither men are looking to be risque, edgy, or dangerous. They are just considered as such because their views deviate so much from the boilerplate of what is Acceptable in the Current Year.

    Same goes for Paul Gottfried. Like MacDonald, he too is an academic type. His book ENCOUNTERS is interesting, but it’s more about ideas than action.

    Peter Brimelow used to be a respectable figure, but his views on immigration become increasingly heretical and even ‘evil’ according to PC as the US became more diverse, PC took over media and academia, and GOP caved to Neocons and ‘cucks’.

    Now, the Alt Right has room for such individuals and owes a debt of gratitude(because they kept the fire alive against all odds when their ideas were written off as dustbin of End of History.) Alt Right owes something to those people.

    But they aren’t exactly core Alt Right. Elements of dissident right were given no place at the table, not even in Conservatism Inc that eventually purged Buchanan, Derbyshire, and even Steyn.

    So older figures like Macdonald, Brimelow, and Taylor formed an alliance with younger figures like Spencer.

    Also, the MSM in 2015 decided to tie Alt Right with Trump, and it was the media that cast a wide net. Alt Right became everything from Daily Stormer & Andrew Anglin to Milo of Breitbart & Steve Bannon. Some in the media went so far as to say Trump himself is an Alt Right candidate. Ridiculous.
    The core Alt Right has been a movement of the edge, but according to the media, you’d think at least 1/4 of the people who supported Trump were Alt Right. Media played up and exaggerated Alt Right as much as they underplayed Wright & Ayers in 2008.

    Core Alt Right is really a youthful dissident, heretical, theoretic, and revolutionary(even radical) movement made up of a new generation of thinkers and activists who feel they have no place in Conservatism Inc.

    Though the media’s definition of Alt Right was too inclusive, it is true enough that there is a great variance among Alt Right figures that range from traditional Christians like Mark Hackard to neo-pagans to aristocratic libertarians, and etc.

    [MORE]

    American Conservative Magazine and Taki Mag sort of pointed the way, but TAC is part of Dilbertine Beltway culture, and Taki Mag is more like Alternative Conservatism or Alternative Libertarianism than truly Alt Right, which is far more brazen about race, identity, resistance, and youthful passion.

    Unlike Macdonald, Taylor, and Brimelow who never asked for notoriety or trouble but got them due to PC domination, the Alt Right relishes notoriety, danger, risque politics, mischief, bad boy antics, and a bit of scandal. It goes for white mischief.

    And it is not afraid to be bold, visionary, creative, and daring. It doesn’t shirk away from intellectual molotov cocktail-tossing, trolling(sometimes with sadistic glee), fight fire-with-fire-ism, and the sardonic smirk. It’s sort of like the French New Wave with trouble-makers like Truffaut, Godard, Chabrol, and others.
    Or like the British Invasion with its Rockers vs Mods thing. Or like punk rock(though I can’t stand it). Alt Right is closer to the spirit of the Stones than the Beatles. It is a baiter of the Establishment like young Bob Dylan who speech at Tom Paine award was a riot and who drove the folkies nuts with electric guitar at Newport. It is a pisser on Political Correctness and Globalist Power.
    The fun thing about Mick Jagger was he could play it straight with the press but also the bad boy, the nasty, and the jester. He could to the gentleman, he could do the black, he could do the white doing black, he could do the white doing black doing white. He reminds me of Anthony Michael in WEIRD SCIENCE.

    So, the Alt Right aspect of NPI conference needed to be edgy. It needed to make a bold gesture that would outrage the MSM. It couldn’t be just matter-of-fact. The Alt Right is nothing without a bit of theatrical, hyperbolic, apocalyptic, parodic, ironic, and even a bit sick.

    It’s like Kevin Grace describes Mishima’s antics. The cult of Mishima owed to notoriety and ambiguity. Mishima wasn’t just a writer but a cult figure.

    Alt Right is into real ideas. It is about honest and courageous discussion of race, identity, history, and social reality, far more so than the media and academia, though I suppose a world controlled totally by Alt Right could lead to its PC repressions.
    At the moment, it is the most daring, courageous, and honest intellectual movement in America. It may not have the most erudite thinkers or the most intelligent people(on the level of Pinker and Ivy League types), but they make up for it with boldness and courage seen almost nowhere else where PC dominates from far left to Conservatism Inc.

    Also, Alt Right isn’t only alt to Conservatism Inc & GOP but alt to 14/88 and Neo-Nazism, the Hollywood fantasy of the KKK. To be sure, Alt Right has connections with both Conservatism Inc and 14/88. Alt Right is close to Brimelow whose site features Ann Coulter who supports politicians of GOP. And there are some murky connections between Alt Right and 14/88 via borderline figures like Greg Johnson and Alex Kurtagic.
    But then, even some non 14/88 elements of Alt Right love to play with neo-Nazi memes just to piss off the media and academia — and teachers pets — that throws fits and tantrums all the time. If MSM sees fantasy KKK at Oberlin and Nazi-rapists at UVA, why not play along and provoke them with a Pepe the ‘nazi’ frog? Sometimes, hilarity ensued when college professors began to give lectures about Pepe as a ‘hate symbol’. They have no idea how much they got trolled. In this our Age of the Trigger, it is irresistible not to TRIGGER the media and respectable establishment with some outrage. It’s like bad boy French Right of the 1950s that did outrageous things, like in the scene in LES COUSINS where a French youth romanticized a Nazi soldier lost in France.

    http://www.newwavefilm.com/about/french-new-wave-politics.shtml

    60s Counterculture had its serious thinkers and activists, but it also had its shock troops, jesters, clowns, provocateurs. It got a lot of attention but some of that theatricality.
    If Alt Right had thus far been ONLY a respectable movement about think pieces and staid conferences, it would not have made any splash on a culture that looks for the Outrage of the Week.

    And we have to give Spencer a lot of credit. Not only did he coin the term but he brought together and orchestrated different personalities in both continents.
    And let’s not forget he was arrested in Hungary(of all places) because the Globalist masters fingered him and forced even conservative Orban to arrest him. Despite having done no wrong — Spencer’s sin was bringing together European patriots — , he was banned from EU for several years. How many people were willing to go through all that? Also, unlike many Alt Rightists, he put himself out there, and he was even hounded in his place of residence in Montana.

    Given his presentation and style, I think Spencer could have gone far in politics. Had he played it safe and respectable like Mitt Romney, he could have been chosen for political office or public face of some Neocon outlet. He is smart and presentable, which a lot of political thinkers and activists are not.
    But he didn’t take the 30 pieces of silver. He didn’t do the Jack Hunter thing, the guy who went from being the Southern Avenger to the Southern Fried Chicken.

    Also, Spencer was smart enough to find the chink in the establishment armor. American Renaissance conferences were canceled in private venues due to terrorist and financial threats, and of course, the MSM ignored this repression of freedom and assembly. And even Conservatives were mum and offered no moral support since they’d caved to Neocons and PC. Spencer however realized that the safest place for alternative voices was in the belly of the beast. The Reagan building. He’s been very savvy about those things.

    Also, I don’t hold it against Spencer that he’s a Germanophile(but he also seems to be a Russophile) and that he admires certain positive attributes of National Socialism. I think any honest person would admit National Socialism couldn’t have gained power and popularity had it been all bad. Of course, its evil side was very evil and led Germany to destruction. But it is possible to separate the wheat from the chaff. It’s like Joachim Fest said in his very critical and damning biography of Hitler. Had Hitler died after he took Sudetenland, he would have gone down as one of Germany’s greatest leaders.

    Spencer’s blindspot is that he isn’t nearly as concerned as he should be about the dark evil side of National Socialism. I don’t believe for a moment that he is a Hitler-lover; still, his outlook is visionary and prophetic, and this makes him somewhat Wagnerian and ‘Nietzschean’ in his view of history, and he sometimes gets carried away with the Future Is Ours rhetoric that may seem a bit supremacist-ish. I tend to prefer the humanist model because hubris always leads to nemesis and demise.
    Spencer’s association with Kurtagic(who is really like a Himmler-figure) is troubling. I can always spot pathological Himmler-ish type. (Anglin is like a clown version of Streicher, and no one takes him seriously.) Anyway, I think Spencer’s camaraderie with Kurtagic has less to do with ideology than Kurtagic’s sense of reach, a futurism peering deeper into the realm of the possible.

    Whatever Spencer’s feelings about National Socialism may be, he is not a mindless fanboy of Naziesquery that Matthew Heimbach is. Indeed, Spencer’s banning of Heimbach and Parrott a year ago at the NPI conference signals real ideological divide.

    Besides, the media have no credibility after its indulgence of Ferguson riots, BLM lunacy, black & PC thuggery on colleges(esp at Mizzou but also at Duke), cop killings, silence about Hillary & Obama’s mass murders in Middle East, and etc.
    And how dare Jewish power bitch about racial supremacism when AIPAC strongarms all politicians to continue the support of Israel’s Occupation of West Bank. And isn’t Jewish Globalist animus toward Russia predicated on the perception that Russians are a bunch of inferior drunken Slavs undeserving of all the great resources of Russia that should really fall into the hands of globalist oligarchs?
    Also, the HAMILTON’s casts behavior toward Mike Pence was downright disgusting. It violated all decency and protocol. Being black or proggy means never having to say you’re sorry.
    And Spencer’s supposed ‘hail’ salute is NOTHING compared to MSM’s non-stop hounding about Trump as ‘literally hitler’ and ‘fascist’ for a whole year. If indeed MSM is correct, it means someone should assassinate Trump since we’ve all been led to believe that Hitler should have been killed(even in the cradle) and it was fun, fun, fun to see Gaddafi sodomized and lynched to death. If Trump is indeed Hitler, the logic would indicate he deserves the same fate. The fact that the media can go on after such behavior is the real scandal. Besides, if any racial hatred is permissible in the US, it is anti-white hatred, and there were so many examples of this in the anti-white violence at Trump rallies where men and women were bloodied in the face. Trump supporters didn’t shut down a single Hillary or Sanders rally. Sanders’ worst opposition came from BLM. But Hillary thugs shut down Trump’s rally in Chicago. And after the election, Proglodytye thugs went about smashing several cities for several nights. But according to MSM, the great horror is Spencer’s Hail remark. MSM needs to be trolled. What a joke.

    I don’t defend everything Spencer did, but I think we should stand by him because he’s been out there, paid his dues(especially in Hungary and EU as a whole), gave up what could have been a lucrative career in politics & punditry for his true convictions, and devoted his life to the cause of his people.
    To focus so much on this ‘hail’ thing is to miss the bigger picture. Spencer isn’t just some loser-dork neo-nazi basement dweller who never would have amounted anything.
    He has the image and smarts to have been someone in Conservative Inc. Had he played his cards right, the GOP establishment would have appointed him for some institute or groomed him for political office. He has charm and likability. Even progs who loathe him say there’s something appealing about him.
    But, he gave all of that up because, unlike the Romneys, Grahams, Cottons, and Gowdies of the world, he chose not to sell his core ideas and dreams for 30 pieces of silver.

    It’s like Mr. Blonde, crazy as he is, has been utterly moral in his loyalty to the crew.

    I don’t care how the media spin the HAIL thing. Spencer has done more than most to further the Alt Right. He not only wrote think-pieces — any blogger can do that — but organized meetings, brought people together, and met with various media outlets to explain things. It took a lot of will, nerves, and resolve, especially as the entire power structure from academia, media, and politics are no-go zone for people like him.

    Worse, even when Spencer played by the rules, the powers-that-be were out to destroy him. Though he didn’t violate any terms, he was taken off Twitter. And National Review cheered the decision like the worthless cuck-zine that it is. Of course, NR didn’t come to his defense when he was arrested in Hungary. Incidentally, the very Hungary that banned the White Identity meeting hosted a Jewish Interest Meeting.

    Also, Spencer doesn’t take things too personally. He is able to see the bigger picture. He had every reason to feel bitter and betrayed by Viktor Orban, but he supported Orban who defended his nation from Muslim and African invaders. He let bygones be bygones for the greater good.

    And Spencer surely understands why Trump has to now distance himself from the Alt Right. Trump now has to be respectable. Trump played the ‘reckless’ maverick to rouse up energy and interest to win the election. He took a huge gamble and won. But now he has to turn his back on the Alt Right to be leader of the country.
    It’s like the ending of CHIMES AT MIDNIGHT and BROADWAY DANNY ROSE. It’s the nature of the game. When the players finally win or make it, they turn their backs on their supporters to shmooze with the men of power and privilege.

    But then, for the Alt Right to remain a vanguard movement, it has to remain ‘dangerous’ and go where no one wants to go. Though THE FOUNTAINHEAD has a Hollywood ending, it is right that SOMEONE has to be willing to be like Howard Roark and never compromise core principles.

    Alt Right must carry the cross. It comes with the territory of playing the vanguard role.

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    • Replies: @MichaelRolls
    Thank you very much for this reply - it's encyclopedic and I don't really have a response.

    I still think Spencer's antics in this case would have been better, more clearly ironic, more Trollish, and funnier if he'd said 'Hail Pepe!'
    , @BB753
    I don't know, it's people like Vox Day and Mike Cernovich who've done more for the alt-right than Spencer. If he was really that smart, he would have left the more far-right neo-nazy antics to the kind of morons who end up being patsies for the FBI.
    , @Mick
    Good post. There is a role for the extreme fringe of the Alt Right to desecrate and mock multicultural taboos. Still, it was a strange mix to include Nazi trolling in the same conference as dignified old men like Taylor, McDonald, and Brimelow.
  127. @TheJester
    iSteve,

    Recognizing that your review of Jared Taylor's book was written in 2011, I suspect you might now be a bit more optimistic about the emergence of "identity politics" for Whites.

    As an axiom, the globalist NWO depreciates the meaning of "citizenship". (If there are no longer nations, people cannot be citizens of those nations.) I've believed for some time that the solution to our national malaise -- a theme for White "identity politics" and a response to the NWO -- is to restore the powers of citizenship. That immediately leads to the concept of equality under the law ... from which it directly follows that affirmative action is unlawful for the racial and gender privilege it gives existing minorities, women, and incoming immigrants.

    Those who lived during the Civil Right era in the 1960s recall why affirmative action for Blacks was permitted as an exception to equality under the law: It was an attempt at a broad brush reparation for racial prejudice still extant in law in some states and in the Federal government. The assumption was that racial quotas were a temporary solution to a material problem that warranted a Constitutional exception to equal protection under the law.

    However, although the material condition justifying affirmative action gradually disappeared, the exception stood. Indeed, the Constitutional and judicial rot represented by affirmation action reached its zenith when the Supreme Court in Fisher vs the University of Texas (Austin), 23 June 2016, declared that affirmative action did NOT violate the Equal Protection clause of the Constitution IF the intent was to enhance the educational experience of everyone at the university by providing a diversity student body.


    Petitioner claims that the University has not articulated its compelling interest with sufficient clarity because it has failed to state more precisely what level of minority enrollment would constitute a “critical mass.” However, the compelling interest that justifies consideration of race in college admissions is not an interest in enrolling a certain number of minority students, but an interest in obtaining “the educational benefits that flow from student body diversity.”

    -- Fisher vs the University of Texas (Austin)
     
    In short, the ruling was that an exception to the Equal Protection clause would continue to be justified regardless of the irrelevancy of civil rights issues if it prepares all students for the NWO. Affirmative action for minorities, women, and immigrants of all colors would now be justified for the effect it has on White people … get used to it as you undergo reeducation in preparation for the NWO.

    Hopefully, this attack on the Constitution and equal protection under the law will be reversed as a result of Trump nominating a conservative to the Supreme Court … and then we as a nation can put the era of government-directed social experimentation and the forced reeducation of its citizenry behind us. That and Trump’s rejection of the globalist TPP and TTIP trade agreements may save us from the NWO.

    Petitioner claims that the University has not articulated its compelling interest with sufficient clarity because it has failed to state more precisely what level of minority enrollment would constitute a “critical mass.”

    Look at how stupid the Supreme Court has become. Only one level of minority enrollment is possible in Texas: 100%.

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  128. @Tracy
    Any movement that ties itself to "whiteness" is doomed to fail, and, to be blunt about it, I think it should. Racial identity politics sucks, no matter where it comes from. Though race undoubtedly affects culture, it's culture that's truly important, which is why I refer to "European and European-derived" people (EEDs) instead of "whites."

    1) The word "white" freaks people out and, because of how the media treat "whiteness," automatically leads the unthinking to the word "Nazi." It's unfair given how all other racial groups are not only allowed but encouraged to stand up for themselves as racial groups, but if we don't deal with reality, then we're playing a losing game. It's the SJWs who go on about "fairness"; we're smarter than that. Or should be. Pointing out their hypocrisy is one thing, but to ignore reality -- well, isn't that a mark of insanity?

    2) I'm a race realist, not a racist, and am fine with black people, Asians, or whoever, as long as they adapt to the EED culture that made America great. If any given members of those groups share the EED vision of the True, Good, and Beautiful, all rooted in classical Christianity, then s'all good by me. If everyone in the African American community were to wake up tomorrow and become race realists and were to see the beauty and wisdom of the EED approach to the True, Good, and Beautiful, then I don't see any problems other than those that stem from general racial IQ differences, all of which could be ameliorated if EEDs were to embrace Christian charity and show true compassion; if our industry were restored so jobs were available for those who aren't med school material; if the trades were "revalorized," as Paglia puts it, so that honor is seen in the honest work of blue collar laborers; if black outliers were encouraged to thrive; and if the racial bean counters -- the TRUE racists -- would go away.

    I guess I could summarize my take on things by saying that identity politics -- including "white" identity politics -- needs to die, EED culture needs to be restored, and trouble-makers need to be locked up.

    Any movement that ties itself to “whiteness” is doomed to fail, and, to be blunt about it, I think it should. Racial identity politics sucks, no matter where it comes from. Though race undoubtedly affects culture, it’s culture that’s truly important….

    No. You don’t believe what you just wrote. You don’t believe that your life is less important than your culture. No one does.

    It’s life that’s important. And, since whites are under collective attack by others engaging in racial identity politics, racial identity politics of some sort is necessary for whites to continue their life on this planet.

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  129. Tracy says: • Website
    @Cc523
    If Arabic culture is a low empathy culture then how come Arabs are know for their hospitality? And what about the pashtun custom of pashtunwali?

    I can’t claim to know, but there’s the possibility that Arab hospitality is more a matter of honor or of showing off than it is about truly wanting guests to feel welcome and cozy and to have their needs and desires met. Think, for ex., of those $12 million dollar bar mitzvahs: they’re not about those invited to share in the experience of a “boy becoming a man”; they’re about flaunting wealth and keeping up with the Joneses — er, the Goldbergs. A little sampler – a pupu platter, if you will — of what goes on in the monied bar (and bat) mitzvah world:

    Inside James Franco’s extravagant Bar Mitzvah. Excerpts:

    On Yom Kippur, Sept. 23, 2015, a rowdy crowd of 15,000 celebrity guests assembled at California’s Our Lady of Chutzpah Church as actor and filmmaker James Franco became a bar mitzvah. Franco, whose mother is a Russian-Jewish immigrant, described the deep meaning and fulfillment of Judaism in his life that motivated him to pursue a bar mitzvah at age 37.

    “My mother instilled in me a strong sense of Jewish identity growing up, as I was taught to only curse in Yiddish, exclusively date Jewish girls, and not to eat pastrami on white bread with mayonnaise, as that would be extremely goyish,” Franco said. “My first words were not ‘mama’ or ‘dada.’ They were ‘schvitz’ and ‘shmutz.’ ”

    Franco’s quest to become a bar mitzvah began several years ago with a memorable trip to the Holy Land through Birthright Israel. He described the experience as a rediscovery of his commitment to the Jewish values of charity and selflessness.

    “During the bus ride from the Israeli airport, I was moved to tears as I swiped my credit card on the side of the tzedakah box,” Franco said. “I learned to make incredible sacrifices on the Birthright trip, such as going without free Wi-Fi and embracing hummus as a food group.”…

    … Highlights of the evening included spectacular performances by several well-known musicians and vocalists. Taylor Swift and Kanye West kicked off the evening’s entertainment with a dramatic duet.

    “I was honored to play at this momentous occasion,” Swift said. “I’ve always wanted to be Jewish, and I decided to forgive Kanye for all of his insults and make up as friends in the spirit of Yom Kippur.”

    Big Bucks and Pink Thrones: The Most Over-the-Top Bar Mitzvahs in Recent History. Excerpts:

    Young Benjamin Fiedler just returned from a lavish Titanic-themed party held logically, though maybe with a note of morbidity, on a cruise ship. This was simply the bar mitzvah of his friend Arnie Stein. As Benjamin also prepares to turn thirteen, he can barely read his haftorah while trying to figure out what it means to become a man. Meanwhile, his parents nearly drive themselves crazy in an attempt to outdo Stein’s event by renting Dodger Stadium for Benjamin’s party. The ensuing events result in hilarity.

    If this sounds familiar, it is either because it’s the plot of the 2006 film “Keeping Up With The Steins,” or it rings all too true with your personal observations. Simple synagogue gatherings or house parties with bubbe as the caterer are now a thing of the past. Most bar/bat mitzvahs fit more comfortably in the “extravaganza” category, but in recent years, some have blown the rest right out of the water…

    3. Mixing business with bar mitzvah

    Consider the Ridinger family. Bat mitzvah girl Amber wore a $27,000 Dolce & Gabbana gown and $100,000 crystals at her party at the Miami Beach club the Forge, reported MTV. The guests walked into the venue on a pink carpet and partied to musical entertainment by Ja Rule and Ashanti. The club’s cellar was transformed into a “candy land” with chocolate colored drapes.

    “Well, diamonds are a girl’s best friend,” Amber Ridinger said. Let’s not forget that every party can be a business opportunity. The eighth-grader took care to debut her line of club clothes, Gossip, and her commercial perfume, Amber No. 13….

    1. Mitzvahpalooza

    In an event that had jaws dropping across the country, multimillionaire Long Island defense contractor David H. Brooks booked two floors of a banquet facility for the more-than-lavish bat mitzvah of his daughter in 2005, the New York Post reported. Dubbed, “Mitzvahpalooza,” Brooks had a stage built, brought in jumbotrons, and installed special carpeting for a concert most people would die for.

    Names in the lineup included Steven Tyler and Joe Perry from Aerosmith, The Eagles’ Don Henley and Joe Walsh, Fleetwood Mac’s Steve Nicks, Tom Petty, and—so the younger crowd could recognize a few names too—DJ AM, Ciara, and 50 Cent. Kenny G serenaded the guests on sax during cocktail hour. Apparently Tyler and Perry even tried to humor Brooks when he jumped on stage and demanded to let his nephew play the drums. Guests left the event with iPods and digital cameras in goodie bags.

    The total cost for the blowout? A cool $10 million. Five years later, Brooks was found guilty of insider trading and committing $185 million fraud—using his company, DHB Industries, to pay for his personal expenses. At least his daughter reaped some of the benefits?

    A band-posted video uploaded to promote the fact that they play bar mitzvahs:

    Must be rough, eh? BTW, just FYI, the bar mitzvah thing is a medieval invention, something Lord Christ would’ve never encountered during His time on earth. Another post-Christian invention: the modern method of circumcision, the method that is practiced nowadays in the West, for God only knows what reason. For more about that, see the FishEaters page on Circumcision.

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  130. G Pinfold says:
    @Jason Liu
    Are you sure? There's still a lot of white SJWs in South Africa, you know.

    No, the much more serious roadblock to the emergence of white identity politics: more Jews don’t want it to happen than do want it to happen.
     
    How's that? Jews are just people. They can be defeated, undermined, persuaded, etc. You read white nationalists too long and you start believing Jews are some sort of insurmountable ubermensch.

    I think there are more moderately conservative Jewish men than there are insane Jewish communists. They're just not willing to put their Jewishness behind their politics. Doesn't have to be that way.

    I’m not sure what your comment on white SJWs in South Africa was meant to convey.
    Google the Rivonia Trial and get a load of Mandela’s co-accused.

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  131. @Anon
    "It would help a lot if the Richard Spencers of the world weren’t doing their nazi-Germany historical recreation society gestures at otherwise respectable conferences."

    No, you're missing the point of Alt Right.

    Alt Right does not flow from respectability. It is the enfant terribles of the Right. It has to be edgy. Now, Alt Right has a place for the staid and respectable.

    Kevin Macdonald is rather a diligent pedantic scholar of Jewish history and power. He doesn't have style and flair. He is offering a counter-culture-of-critique.
    He is considered dangerous and heretical(even outrageous) by MSM because his views are so politically incorrect. But he is not a trouble-maker, a bomb thrower, a visionary, or leader.
    Jared Taylor is also a respectable figure. He is well-mannered and dignified in style. But he too is unwelcome and considered dangerous by the MSM for his views that are inimical to standard PC.

    Neither men are looking to be risque, edgy, or dangerous. They are just considered as such because their views deviate so much from the boilerplate of what is Acceptable in the Current Year.

    Same goes for Paul Gottfried. Like MacDonald, he too is an academic type. His book ENCOUNTERS is interesting, but it's more about ideas than action.

    Peter Brimelow used to be a respectable figure, but his views on immigration become increasingly heretical and even 'evil' according to PC as the US became more diverse, PC took over media and academia, and GOP caved to Neocons and 'cucks'.

    Now, the Alt Right has room for such individuals and owes a debt of gratitude(because they kept the fire alive against all odds when their ideas were written off as dustbin of End of History.) Alt Right owes something to those people.

    But they aren't exactly core Alt Right. Elements of dissident right were given no place at the table, not even in Conservatism Inc that eventually purged Buchanan, Derbyshire, and even Steyn.

    So older figures like Macdonald, Brimelow, and Taylor formed an alliance with younger figures like Spencer.

    Also, the MSM in 2015 decided to tie Alt Right with Trump, and it was the media that cast a wide net. Alt Right became everything from Daily Stormer & Andrew Anglin to Milo of Breitbart & Steve Bannon. Some in the media went so far as to say Trump himself is an Alt Right candidate. Ridiculous.
    The core Alt Right has been a movement of the edge, but according to the media, you'd think at least 1/4 of the people who supported Trump were Alt Right. Media played up and exaggerated Alt Right as much as they underplayed Wright & Ayers in 2008.

    Core Alt Right is really a youthful dissident, heretical, theoretic, and revolutionary(even radical) movement made up of a new generation of thinkers and activists who feel they have no place in Conservatism Inc.

    Though the media's definition of Alt Right was too inclusive, it is true enough that there is a great variance among Alt Right figures that range from traditional Christians like Mark Hackard to neo-pagans to aristocratic libertarians, and etc.



    American Conservative Magazine and Taki Mag sort of pointed the way, but TAC is part of Dilbertine Beltway culture, and Taki Mag is more like Alternative Conservatism or Alternative Libertarianism than truly Alt Right, which is far more brazen about race, identity, resistance, and youthful passion.

    Unlike Macdonald, Taylor, and Brimelow who never asked for notoriety or trouble but got them due to PC domination, the Alt Right relishes notoriety, danger, risque politics, mischief, bad boy antics, and a bit of scandal. It goes for white mischief.

    And it is not afraid to be bold, visionary, creative, and daring. It doesn't shirk away from intellectual molotov cocktail-tossing, trolling(sometimes with sadistic glee), fight fire-with-fire-ism, and the sardonic smirk. It's sort of like the French New Wave with trouble-makers like Truffaut, Godard, Chabrol, and others.
    Or like the British Invasion with its Rockers vs Mods thing. Or like punk rock(though I can't stand it). Alt Right is closer to the spirit of the Stones than the Beatles. It is a baiter of the Establishment like young Bob Dylan who speech at Tom Paine award was a riot and who drove the folkies nuts with electric guitar at Newport. It is a pisser on Political Correctness and Globalist Power.
    The fun thing about Mick Jagger was he could play it straight with the press but also the bad boy, the nasty, and the jester. He could to the gentleman, he could do the black, he could do the white doing black, he could do the white doing black doing white. He reminds me of Anthony Michael in WEIRD SCIENCE.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g9GBuciv20A

    So, the Alt Right aspect of NPI conference needed to be edgy. It needed to make a bold gesture that would outrage the MSM. It couldn't be just matter-of-fact. The Alt Right is nothing without a bit of theatrical, hyperbolic, apocalyptic, parodic, ironic, and even a bit sick.

    It's like Kevin Grace describes Mishima's antics. The cult of Mishima owed to notoriety and ambiguity. Mishima wasn't just a writer but a cult figure.

    https://youtu.be/P0ZvYb-7Lhw?t=5m13s

    Alt Right is into real ideas. It is about honest and courageous discussion of race, identity, history, and social reality, far more so than the media and academia, though I suppose a world controlled totally by Alt Right could lead to its PC repressions.
    At the moment, it is the most daring, courageous, and honest intellectual movement in America. It may not have the most erudite thinkers or the most intelligent people(on the level of Pinker and Ivy League types), but they make up for it with boldness and courage seen almost nowhere else where PC dominates from far left to Conservatism Inc.

    Also, Alt Right isn't only alt to Conservatism Inc & GOP but alt to 14/88 and Neo-Nazism, the Hollywood fantasy of the KKK. To be sure, Alt Right has connections with both Conservatism Inc and 14/88. Alt Right is close to Brimelow whose site features Ann Coulter who supports politicians of GOP. And there are some murky connections between Alt Right and 14/88 via borderline figures like Greg Johnson and Alex Kurtagic.
    But then, even some non 14/88 elements of Alt Right love to play with neo-Nazi memes just to piss off the media and academia --- and teachers pets --- that throws fits and tantrums all the time. If MSM sees fantasy KKK at Oberlin and Nazi-rapists at UVA, why not play along and provoke them with a Pepe the 'nazi' frog? Sometimes, hilarity ensued when college professors began to give lectures about Pepe as a 'hate symbol'. They have no idea how much they got trolled. In this our Age of the Trigger, it is irresistible not to TRIGGER the media and respectable establishment with some outrage. It's like bad boy French Right of the 1950s that did outrageous things, like in the scene in LES COUSINS where a French youth romanticized a Nazi soldier lost in France.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zl-WMxXImI8

    http://www.newwavefilm.com/about/french-new-wave-politics.shtml

    60s Counterculture had its serious thinkers and activists, but it also had its shock troops, jesters, clowns, provocateurs. It got a lot of attention but some of that theatricality.
    If Alt Right had thus far been ONLY a respectable movement about think pieces and staid conferences, it would not have made any splash on a culture that looks for the Outrage of the Week.

    And we have to give Spencer a lot of credit. Not only did he coin the term but he brought together and orchestrated different personalities in both continents.
    And let's not forget he was arrested in Hungary(of all places) because the Globalist masters fingered him and forced even conservative Orban to arrest him. Despite having done no wrong --- Spencer's sin was bringing together European patriots --- , he was banned from EU for several years. How many people were willing to go through all that? Also, unlike many Alt Rightists, he put himself out there, and he was even hounded in his place of residence in Montana.

    Given his presentation and style, I think Spencer could have gone far in politics. Had he played it safe and respectable like Mitt Romney, he could have been chosen for political office or public face of some Neocon outlet. He is smart and presentable, which a lot of political thinkers and activists are not.
    But he didn't take the 30 pieces of silver. He didn't do the Jack Hunter thing, the guy who went from being the Southern Avenger to the Southern Fried Chicken.

    Also, Spencer was smart enough to find the chink in the establishment armor. American Renaissance conferences were canceled in private venues due to terrorist and financial threats, and of course, the MSM ignored this repression of freedom and assembly. And even Conservatives were mum and offered no moral support since they'd caved to Neocons and PC. Spencer however realized that the safest place for alternative voices was in the belly of the beast. The Reagan building. He's been very savvy about those things.

    Also, I don't hold it against Spencer that he's a Germanophile(but he also seems to be a Russophile) and that he admires certain positive attributes of National Socialism. I think any honest person would admit National Socialism couldn't have gained power and popularity had it been all bad. Of course, its evil side was very evil and led Germany to destruction. But it is possible to separate the wheat from the chaff. It's like Joachim Fest said in his very critical and damning biography of Hitler. Had Hitler died after he took Sudetenland, he would have gone down as one of Germany's greatest leaders.

    Spencer's blindspot is that he isn't nearly as concerned as he should be about the dark evil side of National Socialism. I don't believe for a moment that he is a Hitler-lover; still, his outlook is visionary and prophetic, and this makes him somewhat Wagnerian and 'Nietzschean' in his view of history, and he sometimes gets carried away with the Future Is Ours rhetoric that may seem a bit supremacist-ish. I tend to prefer the humanist model because hubris always leads to nemesis and demise.
    Spencer's association with Kurtagic(who is really like a Himmler-figure) is troubling. I can always spot pathological Himmler-ish type. (Anglin is like a clown version of Streicher, and no one takes him seriously.) Anyway, I think Spencer's camaraderie with Kurtagic has less to do with ideology than Kurtagic's sense of reach, a futurism peering deeper into the realm of the possible.

    Whatever Spencer's feelings about National Socialism may be, he is not a mindless fanboy of Naziesquery that Matthew Heimbach is. Indeed, Spencer's banning of Heimbach and Parrott a year ago at the NPI conference signals real ideological divide.

    Besides, the media have no credibility after its indulgence of Ferguson riots, BLM lunacy, black & PC thuggery on colleges(esp at Mizzou but also at Duke), cop killings, silence about Hillary & Obama's mass murders in Middle East, and etc.
    And how dare Jewish power bitch about racial supremacism when AIPAC strongarms all politicians to continue the support of Israel's Occupation of West Bank. And isn't Jewish Globalist animus toward Russia predicated on the perception that Russians are a bunch of inferior drunken Slavs undeserving of all the great resources of Russia that should really fall into the hands of globalist oligarchs?
    Also, the HAMILTON's casts behavior toward Mike Pence was downright disgusting. It violated all decency and protocol. Being black or proggy means never having to say you're sorry.
    And Spencer's supposed 'hail' salute is NOTHING compared to MSM's non-stop hounding about Trump as 'literally hitler' and 'fascist' for a whole year. If indeed MSM is correct, it means someone should assassinate Trump since we've all been led to believe that Hitler should have been killed(even in the cradle) and it was fun, fun, fun to see Gaddafi sodomized and lynched to death. If Trump is indeed Hitler, the logic would indicate he deserves the same fate. The fact that the media can go on after such behavior is the real scandal. Besides, if any racial hatred is permissible in the US, it is anti-white hatred, and there were so many examples of this in the anti-white violence at Trump rallies where men and women were bloodied in the face. Trump supporters didn't shut down a single Hillary or Sanders rally. Sanders' worst opposition came from BLM. But Hillary thugs shut down Trump's rally in Chicago. And after the election, Proglodytye thugs went about smashing several cities for several nights. But according to MSM, the great horror is Spencer's Hail remark. MSM needs to be trolled. What a joke.

    I don't defend everything Spencer did, but I think we should stand by him because he's been out there, paid his dues(especially in Hungary and EU as a whole), gave up what could have been a lucrative career in politics & punditry for his true convictions, and devoted his life to the cause of his people.
    To focus so much on this 'hail' thing is to miss the bigger picture. Spencer isn't just some loser-dork neo-nazi basement dweller who never would have amounted anything.
    He has the image and smarts to have been someone in Conservative Inc. Had he played his cards right, the GOP establishment would have appointed him for some institute or groomed him for political office. He has charm and likability. Even progs who loathe him say there's something appealing about him.
    But, he gave all of that up because, unlike the Romneys, Grahams, Cottons, and Gowdies of the world, he chose not to sell his core ideas and dreams for 30 pieces of silver.

    It's like Mr. Blonde, crazy as he is, has been utterly moral in his loyalty to the crew.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ljjRZe6g5EM

    I don't care how the media spin the HAIL thing. Spencer has done more than most to further the Alt Right. He not only wrote think-pieces --- any blogger can do that --- but organized meetings, brought people together, and met with various media outlets to explain things. It took a lot of will, nerves, and resolve, especially as the entire power structure from academia, media, and politics are no-go zone for people like him.

    Worse, even when Spencer played by the rules, the powers-that-be were out to destroy him. Though he didn't violate any terms, he was taken off Twitter. And National Review cheered the decision like the worthless cuck-zine that it is. Of course, NR didn't come to his defense when he was arrested in Hungary. Incidentally, the very Hungary that banned the White Identity meeting hosted a Jewish Interest Meeting.

    Also, Spencer doesn't take things too personally. He is able to see the bigger picture. He had every reason to feel bitter and betrayed by Viktor Orban, but he supported Orban who defended his nation from Muslim and African invaders. He let bygones be bygones for the greater good.

    And Spencer surely understands why Trump has to now distance himself from the Alt Right. Trump now has to be respectable. Trump played the 'reckless' maverick to rouse up energy and interest to win the election. He took a huge gamble and won. But now he has to turn his back on the Alt Right to be leader of the country.
    It's like the ending of CHIMES AT MIDNIGHT and BROADWAY DANNY ROSE. It's the nature of the game. When the players finally win or make it, they turn their backs on their supporters to shmooze with the men of power and privilege.

    https://youtu.be/wm1lJQzCxLo?t=2m10s

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nHxzEh2qxdQ

    But then, for the Alt Right to remain a vanguard movement, it has to remain 'dangerous' and go where no one wants to go. Though THE FOUNTAINHEAD has a Hollywood ending, it is right that SOMEONE has to be willing to be like Howard Roark and never compromise core principles.

    Alt Right must carry the cross. It comes with the territory of playing the vanguard role.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ipJDP_B3iEE

    Thank you very much for this reply – it’s encyclopedic and I don’t really have a response.

    I still think Spencer’s antics in this case would have been better, more clearly ironic, more Trollish, and funnier if he’d said ‘Hail Pepe!’

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  132. Hibernian says:
    @james wilson
    It's funny to see the specter of anti-Semitism raised against the Right, because it is no bar to being on the left.

    On the Left, BDS is pushed by people who are Jewish themselves, giving cover to the Zen Presbyterians who have boundless compassion for Palestinians and none for Israelis.

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  133. anon says: • Disclaimer
    @Nzdf
    Let me ask you people this simple question. Do you think Trump will tolerate it if his white employees suddenly demand their own separate dining rooms, offices, or that they associate with whites only? If not, what makes you think the Trump will tolerate any sort of white identity politics or attempt to form a White Volksstaat? What makes you think that his response to white nationalists will not make ruby ridge and waco look like a picnic? And all of his grandchildren are eligible to make aliyah by blood, what makes you think that his foreign policy will not be extremely pro-zionist?

    Trump is a civic nationalist (aka citizenist).

    The media are lying about him because their owners want to keep NAFTA.

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  134. anon says: • Disclaimer
    @anony-mouse
    1/ Every year in Boston since 1737 (since 1762 in NYC) there's been a St Patrick's Day parade. The trídhathach na hÉireann is waved and everyone has a great time.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Patrick%27s_Day_in_the_United_States#New_York_City

    But apparently the reason there is no big White identity in the US is because Jews who are White, but don't consider themselves as White, but consider themselves Jews first, are against it. Unlike...

    http://www.irishtimes.com/blogs/generationemigration/2013/02/12/when-the-irish-became-white-immigrants-in-mid-19th-century-us/

    2/ My memory may be failing but I'm sure I've seen a website featuring a lot of people who are extremely proud of their specific Russian, as opposed to their general White heritage. Both article writers and commenters constantly write about Russia, its successes, its leader, its successful military, defend the Rossiya-Matushka...

    I think the website's name starts with the letter 'U'.

    They supported St Patrick’s Day as an anti-WASP move not pro-White – divide and rule.

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  135. anon says: • Disclaimer
    @sabril
    Have white identity politics emerged in countries with much less Jewish influence than the United States? If not, I would guess that something else is the problem. Most likely virtue signalling among elites who don't want to be seen as "racist."

    I imagine some people might argue that, even though not present, Jews are subtly dominating the entire world. To this I would point out that (1) there are many countries who openly support anti-Israel NGOs and/or who regularly vote against Israel at the United Nations; it is difficult to square this with Jewish dominance.; and (2) if you seriously believe that Jews are subtly controlling the world, don't be surprised when you are accused of anti-Semitism.

    it is difficult to square this with Jewish dominance

    nope

    media dominance doesn’t control directly – it works indirectly by manipulating opinion

    US media dominance -> global cultural dominance in the once-white countries outside the Soviet Union

    this dominance has to be unspoken or it wouldn’t work so if the media says x is bad then they can’t openly say “except Israel”

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  136. anon says: • Disclaimer
    @Bindi
    Citizens is just a polite version of white nationalism. Diversity will win in the end. It will win no matter how many helpless immigrants Mr. Trump violently and callously deports, and no matter how many "registries" he sets up to track various undesirable groups. In fact, Diversity has already won, as evidenced by the 2016 birth rate.

    Either we will have a diverse country, or we will have a diverse group of countries in North America.

    Prediction: We will have diverse countries in North America, and the leaders of the secession in each will be white people who can't stand other white people.

    Citizens is just a polite version of white nationalism.

    No. It’s saying the price of citizenship should be behaving as if fellow citizens are blood relatives as a way of solving the free rider problem.

    The problem is some groups and individuals want to be free riders.

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  137. anon says: • Disclaimer
    @Cc523
    If Arabic culture is a low empathy culture then how come Arabs are know for their hospitality? And what about the pashtun custom of pashtunwali?

    It’s not exactly low empathy as extremely high empathy to close kin leaving none left over for strangers.

    The guest/host paradigm is a necessary cultural development in a society like that as otherwise no one could travel outside their valley without getting robbed and killed.

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  138. anon says: • Disclaimer

    No, the much more serious roadblock to the emergence of white identity politics: more Jews don’t want it to happen than do want it to happen.

    I think an internal Jewish battle is one of the key unmentioned aspects of the Trumpening.

    I’d say there were four Jewish factions (roughly)
    - banking mafia
    - “cultural Marxist” (very broad definition more driven by paranoia than ideology)
    - neocon (socially the same as the CM faction but with moar war)
    all of which don’t want to be a minority in a culturally and ethnically cohesive white majority country and have spent a lot of time and energy destroying such from within.

    They are fine with Islamization as they think it will be like Moorish Spain – quietly paying their jizya while making a fortune running a white slave trade

    But there’s a 4th, counter-jihad faction who believe (correctly imo) that while Israel exists there will be no peaceful jizya option and also that long term there’s no way Israel will survive an Islamic world stretching from Ireland to the border of India.

    They have a tricky path as the Left is now 100% BDS while the Right is 90% hostile to one or more of banking mafia, CM or neocon.

    The first three groups hate Trump but the 4th is a partial shield.

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  139. BB753 says:
    @Anon
    "It would help a lot if the Richard Spencers of the world weren’t doing their nazi-Germany historical recreation society gestures at otherwise respectable conferences."

    No, you're missing the point of Alt Right.

    Alt Right does not flow from respectability. It is the enfant terribles of the Right. It has to be edgy. Now, Alt Right has a place for the staid and respectable.

    Kevin Macdonald is rather a diligent pedantic scholar of Jewish history and power. He doesn't have style and flair. He is offering a counter-culture-of-critique.
    He is considered dangerous and heretical(even outrageous) by MSM because his views are so politically incorrect. But he is not a trouble-maker, a bomb thrower, a visionary, or leader.
    Jared Taylor is also a respectable figure. He is well-mannered and dignified in style. But he too is unwelcome and considered dangerous by the MSM for his views that are inimical to standard PC.

    Neither men are looking to be risque, edgy, or dangerous. They are just considered as such because their views deviate so much from the boilerplate of what is Acceptable in the Current Year.

    Same goes for Paul Gottfried. Like MacDonald, he too is an academic type. His book ENCOUNTERS is interesting, but it's more about ideas than action.

    Peter Brimelow used to be a respectable figure, but his views on immigration become increasingly heretical and even 'evil' according to PC as the US became more diverse, PC took over media and academia, and GOP caved to Neocons and 'cucks'.

    Now, the Alt Right has room for such individuals and owes a debt of gratitude(because they kept the fire alive against all odds when their ideas were written off as dustbin of End of History.) Alt Right owes something to those people.

    But they aren't exactly core Alt Right. Elements of dissident right were given no place at the table, not even in Conservatism Inc that eventually purged Buchanan, Derbyshire, and even Steyn.

    So older figures like Macdonald, Brimelow, and Taylor formed an alliance with younger figures like Spencer.

    Also, the MSM in 2015 decided to tie Alt Right with Trump, and it was the media that cast a wide net. Alt Right became everything from Daily Stormer & Andrew Anglin to Milo of Breitbart & Steve Bannon. Some in the media went so far as to say Trump himself is an Alt Right candidate. Ridiculous.
    The core Alt Right has been a movement of the edge, but according to the media, you'd think at least 1/4 of the people who supported Trump were Alt Right. Media played up and exaggerated Alt Right as much as they underplayed Wright & Ayers in 2008.

    Core Alt Right is really a youthful dissident, heretical, theoretic, and revolutionary(even radical) movement made up of a new generation of thinkers and activists who feel they have no place in Conservatism Inc.

    Though the media's definition of Alt Right was too inclusive, it is true enough that there is a great variance among Alt Right figures that range from traditional Christians like Mark Hackard to neo-pagans to aristocratic libertarians, and etc.



    American Conservative Magazine and Taki Mag sort of pointed the way, but TAC is part of Dilbertine Beltway culture, and Taki Mag is more like Alternative Conservatism or Alternative Libertarianism than truly Alt Right, which is far more brazen about race, identity, resistance, and youthful passion.

    Unlike Macdonald, Taylor, and Brimelow who never asked for notoriety or trouble but got them due to PC domination, the Alt Right relishes notoriety, danger, risque politics, mischief, bad boy antics, and a bit of scandal. It goes for white mischief.

    And it is not afraid to be bold, visionary, creative, and daring. It doesn't shirk away from intellectual molotov cocktail-tossing, trolling(sometimes with sadistic glee), fight fire-with-fire-ism, and the sardonic smirk. It's sort of like the French New Wave with trouble-makers like Truffaut, Godard, Chabrol, and others.
    Or like the British Invasion with its Rockers vs Mods thing. Or like punk rock(though I can't stand it). Alt Right is closer to the spirit of the Stones than the Beatles. It is a baiter of the Establishment like young Bob Dylan who speech at Tom Paine award was a riot and who drove the folkies nuts with electric guitar at Newport. It is a pisser on Political Correctness and Globalist Power.
    The fun thing about Mick Jagger was he could play it straight with the press but also the bad boy, the nasty, and the jester. He could to the gentleman, he could do the black, he could do the white doing black, he could do the white doing black doing white. He reminds me of Anthony Michael in WEIRD SCIENCE.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g9GBuciv20A

    So, the Alt Right aspect of NPI conference needed to be edgy. It needed to make a bold gesture that would outrage the MSM. It couldn't be just matter-of-fact. The Alt Right is nothing without a bit of theatrical, hyperbolic, apocalyptic, parodic, ironic, and even a bit sick.

    It's like Kevin Grace describes Mishima's antics. The cult of Mishima owed to notoriety and ambiguity. Mishima wasn't just a writer but a cult figure.

    https://youtu.be/P0ZvYb-7Lhw?t=5m13s

    Alt Right is into real ideas. It is about honest and courageous discussion of race, identity, history, and social reality, far more so than the media and academia, though I suppose a world controlled totally by Alt Right could lead to its PC repressions.
    At the moment, it is the most daring, courageous, and honest intellectual movement in America. It may not have the most erudite thinkers or the most intelligent people(on the level of Pinker and Ivy League types), but they make up for it with boldness and courage seen almost nowhere else where PC dominates from far left to Conservatism Inc.

    Also, Alt Right isn't only alt to Conservatism Inc & GOP but alt to 14/88 and Neo-Nazism, the Hollywood fantasy of the KKK. To be sure, Alt Right has connections with both Conservatism Inc and 14/88. Alt Right is close to Brimelow whose site features Ann Coulter who supports politicians of GOP. And there are some murky connections between Alt Right and 14/88 via borderline figures like Greg Johnson and Alex Kurtagic.
    But then, even some non 14/88 elements of Alt Right love to play with neo-Nazi memes just to piss off the media and academia --- and teachers pets --- that throws fits and tantrums all the time. If MSM sees fantasy KKK at Oberlin and Nazi-rapists at UVA, why not play along and provoke them with a Pepe the 'nazi' frog? Sometimes, hilarity ensued when college professors began to give lectures about Pepe as a 'hate symbol'. They have no idea how much they got trolled. In this our Age of the Trigger, it is irresistible not to TRIGGER the media and respectable establishment with some outrage. It's like bad boy French Right of the 1950s that did outrageous things, like in the scene in LES COUSINS where a French youth romanticized a Nazi soldier lost in France.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zl-WMxXImI8

    http://www.newwavefilm.com/about/french-new-wave-politics.shtml

    60s Counterculture had its serious thinkers and activists, but it also had its shock troops, jesters, clowns, provocateurs. It got a lot of attention but some of that theatricality.
    If Alt Right had thus far been ONLY a respectable movement about think pieces and staid conferences, it would not have made any splash on a culture that looks for the Outrage of the Week.

    And we have to give Spencer a lot of credit. Not only did he coin the term but he brought together and orchestrated different personalities in both continents.
    And let's not forget he was arrested in Hungary(of all places) because the Globalist masters fingered him and forced even conservative Orban to arrest him. Despite having done no wrong --- Spencer's sin was bringing together European patriots --- , he was banned from EU for several years. How many people were willing to go through all that? Also, unlike many Alt Rightists, he put himself out there, and he was even hounded in his place of residence in Montana.

    Given his presentation and style, I think Spencer could have gone far in politics. Had he played it safe and respectable like Mitt Romney, he could have been chosen for political office or public face of some Neocon outlet. He is smart and presentable, which a lot of political thinkers and activists are not.
    But he didn't take the 30 pieces of silver. He didn't do the Jack Hunter thing, the guy who went from being the Southern Avenger to the Southern Fried Chicken.

    Also, Spencer was smart enough to find the chink in the establishment armor. American Renaissance conferences were canceled in private venues due to terrorist and financial threats, and of course, the MSM ignored this repression of freedom and assembly. And even Conservatives were mum and offered no moral support since they'd caved to Neocons and PC. Spencer however realized that the safest place for alternative voices was in the belly of the beast. The Reagan building. He's been very savvy about those things.

    Also, I don't hold it against Spencer that he's a Germanophile(but he also seems to be a Russophile) and that he admires certain positive attributes of National Socialism. I think any honest person would admit National Socialism couldn't have gained power and popularity had it been all bad. Of course, its evil side was very evil and led Germany to destruction. But it is possible to separate the wheat from the chaff. It's like Joachim Fest said in his very critical and damning biography of Hitler. Had Hitler died after he took Sudetenland, he would have gone down as one of Germany's greatest leaders.

    Spencer's blindspot is that he isn't nearly as concerned as he should be about the dark evil side of National Socialism. I don't believe for a moment that he is a Hitler-lover; still, his outlook is visionary and prophetic, and this makes him somewhat Wagnerian and 'Nietzschean' in his view of history, and he sometimes gets carried away with the Future Is Ours rhetoric that may seem a bit supremacist-ish. I tend to prefer the humanist model because hubris always leads to nemesis and demise.
    Spencer's association with Kurtagic(who is really like a Himmler-figure) is troubling. I can always spot pathological Himmler-ish type. (Anglin is like a clown version of Streicher, and no one takes him seriously.) Anyway, I think Spencer's camaraderie with Kurtagic has less to do with ideology than Kurtagic's sense of reach, a futurism peering deeper into the realm of the possible.

    Whatever Spencer's feelings about National Socialism may be, he is not a mindless fanboy of Naziesquery that Matthew Heimbach is. Indeed, Spencer's banning of Heimbach and Parrott a year ago at the NPI conference signals real ideological divide.

    Besides, the media have no credibility after its indulgence of Ferguson riots, BLM lunacy, black & PC thuggery on colleges(esp at Mizzou but also at Duke), cop killings, silence about Hillary & Obama's mass murders in Middle East, and etc.
    And how dare Jewish power bitch about racial supremacism when AIPAC strongarms all politicians to continue the support of Israel's Occupation of West Bank. And isn't Jewish Globalist animus toward Russia predicated on the perception that Russians are a bunch of inferior drunken Slavs undeserving of all the great resources of Russia that should really fall into the hands of globalist oligarchs?
    Also, the HAMILTON's casts behavior toward Mike Pence was downright disgusting. It violated all decency and protocol. Being black or proggy means never having to say you're sorry.
    And Spencer's supposed 'hail' salute is NOTHING compared to MSM's non-stop hounding about Trump as 'literally hitler' and 'fascist' for a whole year. If indeed MSM is correct, it means someone should assassinate Trump since we've all been led to believe that Hitler should have been killed(even in the cradle) and it was fun, fun, fun to see Gaddafi sodomized and lynched to death. If Trump is indeed Hitler, the logic would indicate he deserves the same fate. The fact that the media can go on after such behavior is the real scandal. Besides, if any racial hatred is permissible in the US, it is anti-white hatred, and there were so many examples of this in the anti-white violence at Trump rallies where men and women were bloodied in the face. Trump supporters didn't shut down a single Hillary or Sanders rally. Sanders' worst opposition came from BLM. But Hillary thugs shut down Trump's rally in Chicago. And after the election, Proglodytye thugs went about smashing several cities for several nights. But according to MSM, the great horror is Spencer's Hail remark. MSM needs to be trolled. What a joke.

    I don't defend everything Spencer did, but I think we should stand by him because he's been out there, paid his dues(especially in Hungary and EU as a whole), gave up what could have been a lucrative career in politics & punditry for his true convictions, and devoted his life to the cause of his people.
    To focus so much on this 'hail' thing is to miss the bigger picture. Spencer isn't just some loser-dork neo-nazi basement dweller who never would have amounted anything.
    He has the image and smarts to have been someone in Conservative Inc. Had he played his cards right, the GOP establishment would have appointed him for some institute or groomed him for political office. He has charm and likability. Even progs who loathe him say there's something appealing about him.
    But, he gave all of that up because, unlike the Romneys, Grahams, Cottons, and Gowdies of the world, he chose not to sell his core ideas and dreams for 30 pieces of silver.

    It's like Mr. Blonde, crazy as he is, has been utterly moral in his loyalty to the crew.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ljjRZe6g5EM

    I don't care how the media spin the HAIL thing. Spencer has done more than most to further the Alt Right. He not only wrote think-pieces --- any blogger can do that --- but organized meetings, brought people together, and met with various media outlets to explain things. It took a lot of will, nerves, and resolve, especially as the entire power structure from academia, media, and politics are no-go zone for people like him.

    Worse, even when Spencer played by the rules, the powers-that-be were out to destroy him. Though he didn't violate any terms, he was taken off Twitter. And National Review cheered the decision like the worthless cuck-zine that it is. Of course, NR didn't come to his defense when he was arrested in Hungary. Incidentally, the very Hungary that banned the White Identity meeting hosted a Jewish Interest Meeting.

    Also, Spencer doesn't take things too personally. He is able to see the bigger picture. He had every reason to feel bitter and betrayed by Viktor Orban, but he supported Orban who defended his nation from Muslim and African invaders. He let bygones be bygones for the greater good.

    And Spencer surely understands why Trump has to now distance himself from the Alt Right. Trump now has to be respectable. Trump played the 'reckless' maverick to rouse up energy and interest to win the election. He took a huge gamble and won. But now he has to turn his back on the Alt Right to be leader of the country.
    It's like the ending of CHIMES AT MIDNIGHT and BROADWAY DANNY ROSE. It's the nature of the game. When the players finally win or make it, they turn their backs on their supporters to shmooze with the men of power and privilege.

    https://youtu.be/wm1lJQzCxLo?t=2m10s

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nHxzEh2qxdQ

    But then, for the Alt Right to remain a vanguard movement, it has to remain 'dangerous' and go where no one wants to go. Though THE FOUNTAINHEAD has a Hollywood ending, it is right that SOMEONE has to be willing to be like Howard Roark and never compromise core principles.

    Alt Right must carry the cross. It comes with the territory of playing the vanguard role.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ipJDP_B3iEE

    I don’t know, it’s people like Vox Day and Mike Cernovich who’ve done more for the alt-right than Spencer. If he was really that smart, he would have left the more far-right neo-nazy antics to the kind of morons who end up being patsies for the FBI.

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    • Replies: @Anon
    Vox Day and Cernovich are lightweights. People like them are necessary too. But they don't dig deep. Cernovich is in it for the game. He takes the style and superficial qualities of Alt Right to reach out to a wider audience. And Vox Day is more like a semi-celebrity.

    Spencer could have gone this route: be the acceptable public face of Alt Right. But the danger is Bill Buckleyism. Buckley, to be acceptable, abandoned one rightist principle and theme after another. He even dropped Sobran and Buchanan and later purged Sullivan and Brimelow.

    I'm glad Spencer didn't take this route. Sure, he would be more appealing to the 'normies' and be more acceptable to MSM as the face of Alt Right.
    But it's a slippery slope of compromise.

    This is why we need people like Cernovich and others to present what is for the time being a more acceptable face of Alt Right. People cannot be 'red pilled' overnight. They need to be softened up first. Instead of the castor oil of hard alt right, they need people like Cernovich as stool softener.

    It's like Sailer compared to Murray, Brooks, Douthat, and Noonan(and even Coulter).
    One could argue that it was risky and reckless for Sailer to write the 'notorious' LET THE GOOD TIMES ROLL article and others that got him essentially blacklisted from MSM. But SOMEONE had to write that stuff. Someone had to touch upon HBD without flinching and blinking first.

    We need people like Brooks, Douthat, Murray, and Noonan as stool softeners, but we need the stronger ex-lax of Sailer too. Sailer may be banned from MSM but he does influence the stool softeners who read him.
    Coulter got some ideas from him.



    If you go for wider audience, you must soften your edge.
    If you go for sharpened integrity, you lose the wider audience..

    It's like Spielberg made more money and gained a much bigger audience, but Kubrick made the more uncompromised and more provocative films.

    Is there a way to be both? I guess Kurosawa came closest to fulfilling that ideal. Personal films with considerable popular appeal.
    If you make a sword too hard, it cuts better but breaks easier.
    If you make it too tough, it's harder to break but it tends to dent and bend.
    I hear samurai sword is special because tough metal in the interior is covered by sharp metal on the outside.

    That blend of edgy and popular is difficult to achieve, esp in the age of PC.
    I think maybe Norman Mailer came closest to fitting that bill since the 60s.
    Mike Royko sometimes came close too. Writing funny but pushing buttons that many dared not press... though he got in trouble with the Mexicans over that.

    Anyway, the path of integrity is materially and publicly less rewarding but intellectually more fulfilling. Also, there is more pride in the end.

    It's the difference between the Keatings and Roarks of the world.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jjqe6cmvzPY

    Now, I understand why so many people go the Keating route. They want some success and acceptance. They know they will be blacklisted if branded as 'unacceptable'. Even Hispanic Rick Sanchez got axed permanently for speaking the truth about who runs the media.
    I understand why Douthat can only go so far. And I understand why Murray has been trying to regain his footing after they burned him at the stake for Bell Curve. (But did the bald-headed fool have to go so far as 'gay marriage'? I totally lost respect for him after that one.)

    But the world needs some Roarks too. Their paths will be lonelier, but they stick to it out of principle and the conviction that truth shall prevail in the end.

    And in the end, the principled outlast the opportunistic. It's like Mozart outlasts Sailieri in AMADEUS even though Sailieri was the hit with the court.

    Spencer is torn between Keating-ism and Roarkism. He wants to be out there as the face of the Alt Right. He wants to be the spokesman and messenger. He wants to be the Buckley of the Alt Right.
    But he doesn't want to fall into the Buckleyean-Keating trap. He wants to remain true to himself and his beliefs and visions.

    And I must say the speech at NPI was powerful stuff. He laid it all out.
    Anyone who heard the entire speech surely knows that Spencer's message wasn't some neo-Nazi diatribe.
    Also, I think he liberated the 'hail' from its Nazi references. Sure, the media gave it the usual spin, but who cares? According to the media, even Sailer is an evil 'racist' who is totally irredeemable.
    Now if Spencer had said 'heil', that would have been somewhat fishy. But it is time liberate 'hail' and other terms from the Bastille of PC.
    We will say what we like, and there is no reason why we can't hail people we admire and root for.
    And don't think for a moment that the media would be more fail to Spencer if he hadn't said Hail.
    To the media, 'Let the good times roll' is 'bring back slavery'. Media are hysterical and phony.

    But you say we need to reach out to the mainstream that is still not ready for harder stuff. Okay, I agree, and that's why we have people like Cernovich and others. But those fellas will never venture beyond what is acceptable. They never come up with original ideas. Rather, they pick some ideas from people of stronger will & vision and soften them to win over a wider audience. They are genericists, and I see the utility of having such people. But they will always be peddlers of other people's ideas.

    Spencer's speech threw down the gauntlet that he is on the Alt Right for real. He will remain the Vision guy. He is willing to become a pariah than soften his tune for more acceptance.
    Spencer should know by now that there is no going back for him. No amount of apologies, backpeddling, or pleading will do him any good. The media put the mark of Cain on him. He has a nazi sign carved on his forehead like in INGLORIOUS BASTERDS. No matter what he does, MSM will always see him as an extremist.
    But there is freedom in that since one is liberated from the temptation of approval and acceptance.

    To the MSM, he is a 'white supremacist'. He should just try to be a supreme whitist.

    Sometimes the pariah is the last truly free man.

    https://youtu.be/h5vNbGLhZXw?t=1m59s
  140. Svigor says:

    You see, my wife is an Eastern European goy who works magic in the kitchen. She has taught me that so-called “Jewish” foods, like matzah ball soup, are really just foods that she grew up with and cooks for me.

    Sounds like the South and “soul food.” (the south and a lot of “black culture,” actually) “Soul food” is just Southern cooking, with inferior meats and more grease.

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  141. Mick says:
    @Anon
    "It would help a lot if the Richard Spencers of the world weren’t doing their nazi-Germany historical recreation society gestures at otherwise respectable conferences."

    No, you're missing the point of Alt Right.

    Alt Right does not flow from respectability. It is the enfant terribles of the Right. It has to be edgy. Now, Alt Right has a place for the staid and respectable.

    Kevin Macdonald is rather a diligent pedantic scholar of Jewish history and power. He doesn't have style and flair. He is offering a counter-culture-of-critique.
    He is considered dangerous and heretical(even outrageous) by MSM because his views are so politically incorrect. But he is not a trouble-maker, a bomb thrower, a visionary, or leader.
    Jared Taylor is also a respectable figure. He is well-mannered and dignified in style. But he too is unwelcome and considered dangerous by the MSM for his views that are inimical to standard PC.

    Neither men are looking to be risque, edgy, or dangerous. They are just considered as such because their views deviate so much from the boilerplate of what is Acceptable in the Current Year.

    Same goes for Paul Gottfried. Like MacDonald, he too is an academic type. His book ENCOUNTERS is interesting, but it's more about ideas than action.

    Peter Brimelow used to be a respectable figure, but his views on immigration become increasingly heretical and even 'evil' according to PC as the US became more diverse, PC took over media and academia, and GOP caved to Neocons and 'cucks'.

    Now, the Alt Right has room for such individuals and owes a debt of gratitude(because they kept the fire alive against all odds when their ideas were written off as dustbin of End of History.) Alt Right owes something to those people.

    But they aren't exactly core Alt Right. Elements of dissident right were given no place at the table, not even in Conservatism Inc that eventually purged Buchanan, Derbyshire, and even Steyn.

    So older figures like Macdonald, Brimelow, and Taylor formed an alliance with younger figures like Spencer.

    Also, the MSM in 2015 decided to tie Alt Right with Trump, and it was the media that cast a wide net. Alt Right became everything from Daily Stormer & Andrew Anglin to Milo of Breitbart & Steve Bannon. Some in the media went so far as to say Trump himself is an Alt Right candidate. Ridiculous.
    The core Alt Right has been a movement of the edge, but according to the media, you'd think at least 1/4 of the people who supported Trump were Alt Right. Media played up and exaggerated Alt Right as much as they underplayed Wright & Ayers in 2008.

    Core Alt Right is really a youthful dissident, heretical, theoretic, and revolutionary(even radical) movement made up of a new generation of thinkers and activists who feel they have no place in Conservatism Inc.

    Though the media's definition of Alt Right was too inclusive, it is true enough that there is a great variance among Alt Right figures that range from traditional Christians like Mark Hackard to neo-pagans to aristocratic libertarians, and etc.



    American Conservative Magazine and Taki Mag sort of pointed the way, but TAC is part of Dilbertine Beltway culture, and Taki Mag is more like Alternative Conservatism or Alternative Libertarianism than truly Alt Right, which is far more brazen about race, identity, resistance, and youthful passion.

    Unlike Macdonald, Taylor, and Brimelow who never asked for notoriety or trouble but got them due to PC domination, the Alt Right relishes notoriety, danger, risque politics, mischief, bad boy antics, and a bit of scandal. It goes for white mischief.

    And it is not afraid to be bold, visionary, creative, and daring. It doesn't shirk away from intellectual molotov cocktail-tossing, trolling(sometimes with sadistic glee), fight fire-with-fire-ism, and the sardonic smirk. It's sort of like the French New Wave with trouble-makers like Truffaut, Godard, Chabrol, and others.
    Or like the British Invasion with its Rockers vs Mods thing. Or like punk rock(though I can't stand it). Alt Right is closer to the spirit of the Stones than the Beatles. It is a baiter of the Establishment like young Bob Dylan who speech at Tom Paine award was a riot and who drove the folkies nuts with electric guitar at Newport. It is a pisser on Political Correctness and Globalist Power.
    The fun thing about Mick Jagger was he could play it straight with the press but also the bad boy, the nasty, and the jester. He could to the gentleman, he could do the black, he could do the white doing black, he could do the white doing black doing white. He reminds me of Anthony Michael in WEIRD SCIENCE.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g9GBuciv20A

    So, the Alt Right aspect of NPI conference needed to be edgy. It needed to make a bold gesture that would outrage the MSM. It couldn't be just matter-of-fact. The Alt Right is nothing without a bit of theatrical, hyperbolic, apocalyptic, parodic, ironic, and even a bit sick.

    It's like Kevin Grace describes Mishima's antics. The cult of Mishima owed to notoriety and ambiguity. Mishima wasn't just a writer but a cult figure.

    https://youtu.be/P0ZvYb-7Lhw?t=5m13s

    Alt Right is into real ideas. It is about honest and courageous discussion of race, identity, history, and social reality, far more so than the media and academia, though I suppose a world controlled totally by Alt Right could lead to its PC repressions.
    At the moment, it is the most daring, courageous, and honest intellectual movement in America. It may not have the most erudite thinkers or the most intelligent people(on the level of Pinker and Ivy League types), but they make up for it with boldness and courage seen almost nowhere else where PC dominates from far left to Conservatism Inc.

    Also, Alt Right isn't only alt to Conservatism Inc & GOP but alt to 14/88 and Neo-Nazism, the Hollywood fantasy of the KKK. To be sure, Alt Right has connections with both Conservatism Inc and 14/88. Alt Right is close to Brimelow whose site features Ann Coulter who supports politicians of GOP. And there are some murky connections between Alt Right and 14/88 via borderline figures like Greg Johnson and Alex Kurtagic.
    But then, even some non 14/88 elements of Alt Right love to play with neo-Nazi memes just to piss off the media and academia --- and teachers pets --- that throws fits and tantrums all the time. If MSM sees fantasy KKK at Oberlin and Nazi-rapists at UVA, why not play along and provoke them with a Pepe the 'nazi' frog? Sometimes, hilarity ensued when college professors began to give lectures about Pepe as a 'hate symbol'. They have no idea how much they got trolled. In this our Age of the Trigger, it is irresistible not to TRIGGER the media and respectable establishment with some outrage. It's like bad boy French Right of the 1950s that did outrageous things, like in the scene in LES COUSINS where a French youth romanticized a Nazi soldier lost in France.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zl-WMxXImI8

    http://www.newwavefilm.com/about/french-new-wave-politics.shtml

    60s Counterculture had its serious thinkers and activists, but it also had its shock troops, jesters, clowns, provocateurs. It got a lot of attention but some of that theatricality.
    If Alt Right had thus far been ONLY a respectable movement about think pieces and staid conferences, it would not have made any splash on a culture that looks for the Outrage of the Week.

    And we have to give Spencer a lot of credit. Not only did he coin the term but he brought together and orchestrated different personalities in both continents.
    And let's not forget he was arrested in Hungary(of all places) because the Globalist masters fingered him and forced even conservative Orban to arrest him. Despite having done no wrong --- Spencer's sin was bringing together European patriots --- , he was banned from EU for several years. How many people were willing to go through all that? Also, unlike many Alt Rightists, he put himself out there, and he was even hounded in his place of residence in Montana.

    Given his presentation and style, I think Spencer could have gone far in politics. Had he played it safe and respectable like Mitt Romney, he could have been chosen for political office or public face of some Neocon outlet. He is smart and presentable, which a lot of political thinkers and activists are not.
    But he didn't take the 30 pieces of silver. He didn't do the Jack Hunter thing, the guy who went from being the Southern Avenger to the Southern Fried Chicken.

    Also, Spencer was smart enough to find the chink in the establishment armor. American Renaissance conferences were canceled in private venues due to terrorist and financial threats, and of course, the MSM ignored this repression of freedom and assembly. And even Conservatives were mum and offered no moral support since they'd caved to Neocons and PC. Spencer however realized that the safest place for alternative voices was in the belly of the beast. The Reagan building. He's been very savvy about those things.

    Also, I don't hold it against Spencer that he's a Germanophile(but he also seems to be a Russophile) and that he admires certain positive attributes of National Socialism. I think any honest person would admit National Socialism couldn't have gained power and popularity had it been all bad. Of course, its evil side was very evil and led Germany to destruction. But it is possible to separate the wheat from the chaff. It's like Joachim Fest said in his very critical and damning biography of Hitler. Had Hitler died after he took Sudetenland, he would have gone down as one of Germany's greatest leaders.

    Spencer's blindspot is that he isn't nearly as concerned as he should be about the dark evil side of National Socialism. I don't believe for a moment that he is a Hitler-lover; still, his outlook is visionary and prophetic, and this makes him somewhat Wagnerian and 'Nietzschean' in his view of history, and he sometimes gets carried away with the Future Is Ours rhetoric that may seem a bit supremacist-ish. I tend to prefer the humanist model because hubris always leads to nemesis and demise.
    Spencer's association with Kurtagic(who is really like a Himmler-figure) is troubling. I can always spot pathological Himmler-ish type. (Anglin is like a clown version of Streicher, and no one takes him seriously.) Anyway, I think Spencer's camaraderie with Kurtagic has less to do with ideology than Kurtagic's sense of reach, a futurism peering deeper into the realm of the possible.

    Whatever Spencer's feelings about National Socialism may be, he is not a mindless fanboy of Naziesquery that Matthew Heimbach is. Indeed, Spencer's banning of Heimbach and Parrott a year ago at the NPI conference signals real ideological divide.

    Besides, the media have no credibility after its indulgence of Ferguson riots, BLM lunacy, black & PC thuggery on colleges(esp at Mizzou but also at Duke), cop killings, silence about Hillary & Obama's mass murders in Middle East, and etc.
    And how dare Jewish power bitch about racial supremacism when AIPAC strongarms all politicians to continue the support of Israel's Occupation of West Bank. And isn't Jewish Globalist animus toward Russia predicated on the perception that Russians are a bunch of inferior drunken Slavs undeserving of all the great resources of Russia that should really fall into the hands of globalist oligarchs?
    Also, the HAMILTON's casts behavior toward Mike Pence was downright disgusting. It violated all decency and protocol. Being black or proggy means never having to say you're sorry.
    And Spencer's supposed 'hail' salute is NOTHING compared to MSM's non-stop hounding about Trump as 'literally hitler' and 'fascist' for a whole year. If indeed MSM is correct, it means someone should assassinate Trump since we've all been led to believe that Hitler should have been killed(even in the cradle) and it was fun, fun, fun to see Gaddafi sodomized and lynched to death. If Trump is indeed Hitler, the logic would indicate he deserves the same fate. The fact that the media can go on after such behavior is the real scandal. Besides, if any racial hatred is permissible in the US, it is anti-white hatred, and there were so many examples of this in the anti-white violence at Trump rallies where men and women were bloodied in the face. Trump supporters didn't shut down a single Hillary or Sanders rally. Sanders' worst opposition came from BLM. But Hillary thugs shut down Trump's rally in Chicago. And after the election, Proglodytye thugs went about smashing several cities for several nights. But according to MSM, the great horror is Spencer's Hail remark. MSM needs to be trolled. What a joke.

    I don't defend everything Spencer did, but I think we should stand by him because he's been out there, paid his dues(especially in Hungary and EU as a whole), gave up what could have been a lucrative career in politics & punditry for his true convictions, and devoted his life to the cause of his people.
    To focus so much on this 'hail' thing is to miss the bigger picture. Spencer isn't just some loser-dork neo-nazi basement dweller who never would have amounted anything.
    He has the image and smarts to have been someone in Conservative Inc. Had he played his cards right, the GOP establishment would have appointed him for some institute or groomed him for political office. He has charm and likability. Even progs who loathe him say there's something appealing about him.
    But, he gave all of that up because, unlike the Romneys, Grahams, Cottons, and Gowdies of the world, he chose not to sell his core ideas and dreams for 30 pieces of silver.

    It's like Mr. Blonde, crazy as he is, has been utterly moral in his loyalty to the crew.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ljjRZe6g5EM

    I don't care how the media spin the HAIL thing. Spencer has done more than most to further the Alt Right. He not only wrote think-pieces --- any blogger can do that --- but organized meetings, brought people together, and met with various media outlets to explain things. It took a lot of will, nerves, and resolve, especially as the entire power structure from academia, media, and politics are no-go zone for people like him.

    Worse, even when Spencer played by the rules, the powers-that-be were out to destroy him. Though he didn't violate any terms, he was taken off Twitter. And National Review cheered the decision like the worthless cuck-zine that it is. Of course, NR didn't come to his defense when he was arrested in Hungary. Incidentally, the very Hungary that banned the White Identity meeting hosted a Jewish Interest Meeting.

    Also, Spencer doesn't take things too personally. He is able to see the bigger picture. He had every reason to feel bitter and betrayed by Viktor Orban, but he supported Orban who defended his nation from Muslim and African invaders. He let bygones be bygones for the greater good.

    And Spencer surely understands why Trump has to now distance himself from the Alt Right. Trump now has to be respectable. Trump played the 'reckless' maverick to rouse up energy and interest to win the election. He took a huge gamble and won. But now he has to turn his back on the Alt Right to be leader of the country.
    It's like the ending of CHIMES AT MIDNIGHT and BROADWAY DANNY ROSE. It's the nature of the game. When the players finally win or make it, they turn their backs on their supporters to shmooze with the men of power and privilege.

    https://youtu.be/wm1lJQzCxLo?t=2m10s

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nHxzEh2qxdQ

    But then, for the Alt Right to remain a vanguard movement, it has to remain 'dangerous' and go where no one wants to go. Though THE FOUNTAINHEAD has a Hollywood ending, it is right that SOMEONE has to be willing to be like Howard Roark and never compromise core principles.

    Alt Right must carry the cross. It comes with the territory of playing the vanguard role.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ipJDP_B3iEE

    Good post. There is a role for the extreme fringe of the Alt Right to desecrate and mock multicultural taboos. Still, it was a strange mix to include Nazi trolling in the same conference as dignified old men like Taylor, McDonald, and Brimelow.

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    • Replies: @Gabriel M
    They, and in particular, Taylor,got tired of talking to to rooms full of half-senile geriatrics. Suddenly all these young guys with hipster haircuts started turning up to their conferences and they couldn't resist. Anyone could have, and many I believe actually have, told them that Spencer is an attention seeking plonker. His asshattery about Brexit should have been enough to prove for certain he was just no damn good. Whatever.
    , @Anon
    "Still, it was a strange mix to include Nazi trolling in the same conference as dignified old men like Taylor, McDonald, and Brimelow."

    Oh come on.
    Spencer's speech and the Alt Right movement are bigger than nazi trolling, and even the Hail thing was bigger than mere 'nazi trollimg'... just like disco was bigger than Travolta in Saturday Night Fever.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qC7aqg7qzSQ

    Yes, spencer and those present understood its Nazi allusions, but it was also a way to signal that it is something much bigger. Spencer's gesture liberated the Hail from the ghetto of Nazism.
    Spencer was not trying to revive or even rehabilitate Nazism. He was signaling a willingness to move forward with the Western project going back to classical times that had been ghettoized in the Nazi trap by the Narrative, according to which anything 'white' is Nazi. To Ron Rosenbaum, even white bread and white turkey meat is blitzkrieg.

    The hail thing was made notorious by the nazis but it much bigger and has a long history... and now a long future. It is time to liberate it from its ghetto.
    After Japan lost the war, US authorities banned samurai films as militarist and feudal. But Japanese soon revived it as part of their heritage and culture. Just because the crazy militarists exploited bushido and warrior culture was np reason to ghetto-ize samurai culture as mere 'militarism'.



    Likewise, why should the Hail and Roman salute forever be ghettoized within 12 yrs of nazi history?

    Trump himself did something similar when he quoted Mussolini. Lion for a day than sheep for life. Even if Mussolini said it, the sentiment is universal and shouldn't be ghettoized as 'fascist'.
    Also, 'America First' has pro-Nazi connotations because some 'isolationists' did indeed favor the Germans. But Trump liberated the slogan to have new meaning in the 21st century.

    We should democratize 'hail' and give it new life and meaning. Hail Derbyshire. Hail Reed. Hail Mercer. Hail Coulter. Hail Dinh. Hail Roberts. Hail Sailer. Hail Saker. Hail Marolis. Hail Buchanan.

    When it comes to real problems with neo-Nazism, it's not the salute or the hail.

    It is that both Macdonald and Taylor have had ties with extremists. Now, how dignified was that? Taylor gave interview to Don Black of Stormfront. And Macdonald's site featured the writings or rantings of Lasha Darkmoon, some philistine neo-nazi freakess.
    Now, I'm willing to cut both of them slack because when you're in the wilderness, you make common cause with fellow exiles and even radical types who may be of questionable views. This was true of Jews too. As political exiles, they made common cause with anarchists, communists, and terrorists. But then, Jews still play this game in some parts. Zionists are allied with extreme Wahabi Saudis and crazy Jihadis in the Middle East. And Neocons forged an alliance with even neo-nazis in Ukraine to undermine Russian influence in the region. Whenever and wherever you don't have the dominant power, you feel compelled to form alliances with whoever is willing to work with you on the basis of 'the enemy of my enemy is my friend'.

    Still, because of those associations, Macdonald and Taylor aren't seen as 'dignified' figures by any stretch of the imagination by the MSM. But then, even without such associations they would be considered scandalous for their views and ideas.

    Anyway, a new dawn awaits, and it calls for a different style and attitude than those held by the elders at the NPI meeting. The young turks or the young vandals of the movement will have to be savvier, nastier, more 'radical', and cleverer. It will have to intellectual mobile guerrilla warfare.
    Fleet-footed, relentless, booby-trapped, unpredictable.

    This NPI conference underscored what the younger people owe to the elders but also how a new path must be forged with new spirit and drive.
  142. Jefferson says:

    Speaking of identity politics, Nikki Haley is being described by the Liberal mainstream media as the first Woman Of Color to be part of Donald J. Trump’s administration, yet just a few years ago the Liberal mainstream media gave her hell when they discovered that she self identifies as White, yet these are the same Liberals who say White is a social construct and that anybody can be White. Liberals contradict themselves. Maybe they only see White as a social construct when Nonwhites behave badly and they need to inflate the White crime rate.

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  143. BenKenobi says:
    @Jenner Ickham Errican

    No, the much more serious roadblock to the emergence of white identity politics: more Jews don’t want it to happen than do want it to happen.
     
    Movie metaphors can be imprecise, but I’m reminded of this scene in T2: Judgment Day. I’m not sure where the country will go demographically under President Trump, but a presumed Rising Tide of Color combined with increasing all-around identity-based conflict will further polarize whites into White Nationalists vs. Lennonists.

    The embryonic détente called “citizenism” will be unceremoniously aborted. Jews will have to decide to throw in with White Nationalists or not.

    [Jared Taylor] has striven manfully and graciously over the years to make Jews feel welcome in his movement and many Jews have written for American Renaissance.

     

    If it all comes down to race war, the more magnanimous White Nationalists have been signalling to ‘woke’ Jews: “Come with us if you want to live.”

    Great comment.

    I still like to use the term “White Zionist” as opposed to “White Nationalist” — it’s a provocative, aggressive fig-leaf that doesn’t immediately trigger crimestop.

    A movie metaphor I like is at the end of Matrix 3 when Neo is speaking “face-to-face” with the Machine Intelligence:

    Neo: “The program [diversity] has grown beyond your control. You can’t stop it, but [we] can.”

    AI: “What do you want?”

    Neo: “Peace.”

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  144. @MichaelRolls
    It would help a lot if the Richard Spencers of the world weren't doing their nazi-Germany historical recreation society gestures at otherwise respectable conferences.

    Idenititarianism or citizenism... the most important thing is to have a kick-ass marketing department so that blokes in swastika t-shirts don't get to attend the meeting, even if they do claim they're just Sex Pistols fans and really like Sid Vicious' style.

    yeah, those were Jews doing the Seig Heil salute

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  145. Gabriel M says:
    @Mick
    Good post. There is a role for the extreme fringe of the Alt Right to desecrate and mock multicultural taboos. Still, it was a strange mix to include Nazi trolling in the same conference as dignified old men like Taylor, McDonald, and Brimelow.

    They, and in particular, Taylor,got tired of talking to to rooms full of half-senile geriatrics. Suddenly all these young guys with hipster haircuts started turning up to their conferences and they couldn’t resist. Anyone could have, and many I believe actually have, told them that Spencer is an attention seeking plonker. His asshattery about Brexit should have been enough to prove for certain he was just no damn good. Whatever.

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  146. Anon says: • Disclaimer
    @BB753
    I don't know, it's people like Vox Day and Mike Cernovich who've done more for the alt-right than Spencer. If he was really that smart, he would have left the more far-right neo-nazy antics to the kind of morons who end up being patsies for the FBI.

    Vox Day and Cernovich are lightweights. People like them are necessary too. But they don’t dig deep. Cernovich is in it for the game. He takes the style and superficial qualities of Alt Right to reach out to a wider audience. And Vox Day is more like a semi-celebrity.

    Spencer could have gone this route: be the acceptable public face of Alt Right. But the danger is Bill Buckleyism. Buckley, to be acceptable, abandoned one rightist principle and theme after another. He even dropped Sobran and Buchanan and later purged Sullivan and Brimelow.

    I’m glad Spencer didn’t take this route. Sure, he would be more appealing to the ‘normies’ and be more acceptable to MSM as the face of Alt Right.
    But it’s a slippery slope of compromise.

    This is why we need people like Cernovich and others to present what is for the time being a more acceptable face of Alt Right. People cannot be ‘red pilled’ overnight. They need to be softened up first. Instead of the castor oil of hard alt right, they need people like Cernovich as stool softener.

    It’s like Sailer compared to Murray, Brooks, Douthat, and Noonan(and even Coulter).
    One could argue that it was risky and reckless for Sailer to write the ‘notorious’ LET THE GOOD TIMES ROLL article and others that got him essentially blacklisted from MSM. But SOMEONE had to write that stuff. Someone had to touch upon HBD without flinching and blinking first.

    We need people like Brooks, Douthat, Murray, and Noonan as stool softeners, but we need the stronger ex-lax of Sailer too. Sailer may be banned from MSM but he does influence the stool softeners who read him.
    Coulter got some ideas from him.

    [MORE]

    If you go for wider audience, you must soften your edge.
    If you go for sharpened integrity, you lose the wider audience..

    It’s like Spielberg made more money and gained a much bigger audience, but Kubrick made the more uncompromised and more provocative films.

    Is there a way to be both? I guess Kurosawa came closest to fulfilling that ideal. Personal films with considerable popular appeal.
    If you make a sword too hard, it cuts better but breaks easier.
    If you make it too tough, it’s harder to break but it tends to dent and bend.
    I hear samurai sword is special because tough metal in the interior is covered by sharp metal on the outside.

    That blend of edgy and popular is difficult to achieve, esp in the age of PC.
    I think maybe Norman Mailer came closest to fitting that bill since the 60s.
    Mike Royko sometimes came close too. Writing funny but pushing buttons that many dared not press… though he got in trouble with the Mexicans over that.

    Anyway, the path of integrity is materially and publicly less rewarding but intellectually more fulfilling. Also, there is more pride in the end.

    It’s the difference between the Keatings and Roarks of the world.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jjqe6cmvzPY

    Now, I understand why so many people go the Keating route. They want some success and acceptance. They know they will be blacklisted if branded as ‘unacceptable’. Even Hispanic Rick Sanchez got axed permanently for speaking the truth about who runs the media.
    I understand why Douthat can only go so far. And I understand why Murray has been trying to regain his footing after they burned him at the stake for Bell Curve. (But did the bald-headed fool have to go so far as ‘gay marriage’? I totally lost respect for him after that one.)

    But the world needs some Roarks too. Their paths will be lonelier, but they stick to it out of principle and the conviction that truth shall prevail in the end.

    And in the end, the principled outlast the opportunistic. It’s like Mozart outlasts Sailieri in AMADEUS even though Sailieri was the hit with the court.

    Spencer is torn between Keating-ism and Roarkism. He wants to be out there as the face of the Alt Right. He wants to be the spokesman and messenger. He wants to be the Buckley of the Alt Right.
    But he doesn’t want to fall into the Buckleyean-Keating trap. He wants to remain true to himself and his beliefs and visions.

    And I must say the speech at NPI was powerful stuff. He laid it all out.
    Anyone who heard the entire speech surely knows that Spencer’s message wasn’t some neo-Nazi diatribe.
    Also, I think he liberated the ‘hail’ from its Nazi references. Sure, the media gave it the usual spin, but who cares? According to the media, even Sailer is an evil ‘racist’ who is totally irredeemable.
    Now if Spencer had said ‘heil’, that would have been somewhat fishy. But it is time liberate ‘hail’ and other terms from the Bastille of PC.
    We will say what we like, and there is no reason why we can’t hail people we admire and root for.
    And don’t think for a moment that the media would be more fail to Spencer if he hadn’t said Hail.
    To the media, ‘Let the good times roll’ is ‘bring back slavery’. Media are hysterical and phony.

    But you say we need to reach out to the mainstream that is still not ready for harder stuff. Okay, I agree, and that’s why we have people like Cernovich and others. But those fellas will never venture beyond what is acceptable. They never come up with original ideas. Rather, they pick some ideas from people of stronger will & vision and soften them to win over a wider audience. They are genericists, and I see the utility of having such people. But they will always be peddlers of other people’s ideas.

    Spencer’s speech threw down the gauntlet that he is on the Alt Right for real. He will remain the Vision guy. He is willing to become a pariah than soften his tune for more acceptance.
    Spencer should know by now that there is no going back for him. No amount of apologies, backpeddling, or pleading will do him any good. The media put the mark of Cain on him. He has a nazi sign carved on his forehead like in INGLORIOUS BASTERDS. No matter what he does, MSM will always see him as an extremist.
    But there is freedom in that since one is liberated from the temptation of approval and acceptance.

    To the MSM, he is a ‘white supremacist’. He should just try to be a supreme whitist.

    Sometimes the pariah is the last truly free man.

    https://youtu.be/h5vNbGLhZXw?t=1m59s

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  147. Anon says: • Disclaimer
    @Mick
    Good post. There is a role for the extreme fringe of the Alt Right to desecrate and mock multicultural taboos. Still, it was a strange mix to include Nazi trolling in the same conference as dignified old men like Taylor, McDonald, and Brimelow.

    “Still, it was a strange mix to include Nazi trolling in the same conference as dignified old men like Taylor, McDonald, and Brimelow.”

    Oh come on.
    Spencer’s speech and the Alt Right movement are bigger than nazi trolling, and even the Hail thing was bigger than mere ‘nazi trollimg’… just like disco was bigger than Travolta in Saturday Night Fever.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qC7aqg7qzSQ

    Yes, spencer and those present understood its Nazi allusions, but it was also a way to signal that it is something much bigger. Spencer’s gesture liberated the Hail from the ghetto of Nazism.
    Spencer was not trying to revive or even rehabilitate Nazism. He was signaling a willingness to move forward with the Western project going back to classical times that had been ghettoized in the Nazi trap by the Narrative, according to which anything ‘white’ is Nazi. To Ron Rosenbaum, even white bread and white turkey meat is blitzkrieg.

    The hail thing was made notorious by the nazis but it much bigger and has a long history… and now a long future. It is time to liberate it from its ghetto.
    After Japan lost the war, US authorities banned samurai films as militarist and feudal. But Japanese soon revived it as part of their heritage and culture. Just because the crazy militarists exploited bushido and warrior culture was np reason to ghetto-ize samurai culture as mere ‘militarism’.

    [MORE]

    Likewise, why should the Hail and Roman salute forever be ghettoized within 12 yrs of nazi history?

    Trump himself did something similar when he quoted Mussolini. Lion for a day than sheep for life. Even if Mussolini said it, the sentiment is universal and shouldn’t be ghettoized as ‘fascist’.
    Also, ‘America First’ has pro-Nazi connotations because some ‘isolationists’ did indeed favor the Germans. But Trump liberated the slogan to have new meaning in the 21st century.

    We should democratize ‘hail’ and give it new life and meaning. Hail Derbyshire. Hail Reed. Hail Mercer. Hail Coulter. Hail Dinh. Hail Roberts. Hail Sailer. Hail Saker. Hail Marolis. Hail Buchanan.

    When it comes to real problems with neo-Nazism, it’s not the salute or the hail.

    It is that both Macdonald and Taylor have had ties with extremists. Now, how dignified was that? Taylor gave interview to Don Black of Stormfront. And Macdonald’s site featured the writings or rantings of Lasha Darkmoon, some philistine neo-nazi freakess.
    Now, I’m willing to cut both of them slack because when you’re in the wilderness, you make common cause with fellow exiles and even radical types who may be of questionable views. This was true of Jews too. As political exiles, they made common cause with anarchists, communists, and terrorists. But then, Jews still play this game in some parts. Zionists are allied with extreme Wahabi Saudis and crazy Jihadis in the Middle East. And Neocons forged an alliance with even neo-nazis in Ukraine to undermine Russian influence in the region. Whenever and wherever you don’t have the dominant power, you feel compelled to form alliances with whoever is willing to work with you on the basis of ‘the enemy of my enemy is my friend’.

    Still, because of those associations, Macdonald and Taylor aren’t seen as ‘dignified’ figures by any stretch of the imagination by the MSM. But then, even without such associations they would be considered scandalous for their views and ideas.

    Anyway, a new dawn awaits, and it calls for a different style and attitude than those held by the elders at the NPI meeting. The young turks or the young vandals of the movement will have to be savvier, nastier, more ‘radical’, and cleverer. It will have to intellectual mobile guerrilla warfare.
    Fleet-footed, relentless, booby-trapped, unpredictable.

    This NPI conference underscored what the younger people owe to the elders but also how a new path must be forged with new spirit and drive.

    Read More
  148. donut says:
    @Anonymous
    I go back and forth between here and mainstream media.
    It's dizzying, and needs the mind's translation module constantly on.

    I guess when you say "White identitarianism" you mean what the head of one of those famous organizations fighting against the powerful who harass the weak and defenseless, has called "nativist racism" and "white supremacy"?

    I've read on a reputable blog that Taylor is gathering fascists and Nazis and a new Nazi era is dawning.

    Can you confirm, Sailer?

    “I’ve read on a reputable blog that Taylor is gathering fascists and Nazis and a new Nazi era is dawning.” One can only hope .

    Read More
  149. Jeeves says:
    @Jacobite
    Correct pronunciation of “citizenism” would make for an excellent sobriety test.

    But only for the first DUI. Recidivism for that offense is high.

    Read More
  150. Svigor says:

    It would help a lot if the Richard Spencers of the world weren’t doing their nazi-Germany historical recreation society gestures at otherwise respectable conferences.

    Get over it. If it’s not idiots doing it, it’ll be people paid by the likes of Soros, doing it. Most of the extreme right in Germany is on the federal payroll.

    Read More
  151. […] Sailer –  White Identarian. . ., The Undoing Project, Conquer Through Immigration, Zombies As Metaphor For Camp Of Saints, Trumps […]

    Read More
  152. donut says:
    @Anonymous
    I go back and forth between here and mainstream media.
    It's dizzying, and needs the mind's translation module constantly on.

    I guess when you say "White identitarianism" you mean what the head of one of those famous organizations fighting against the powerful who harass the weak and defenseless, has called "nativist racism" and "white supremacy"?

    I've read on a reputable blog that Taylor is gathering fascists and Nazis and a new Nazi era is dawning.

    Can you confirm, Sailer?

    I would have to guess that Spencer is a a fucking progressive troll , as you all must know the Donut is a hope to die racist and Anti- Semite and I would never poison our cause with some shit like this . Perhaps you may be able to help me with this other problem I have found myself with at this stage of my life with only 7-8 friends : four are white and 3 are Black and one is Chinese . The main thing is they are all Americans with American values . As you can imagine this makes it very difficult to maintain my racism . Dear Ann , what to do ?

    Read More
  153. @Opinionator
    It provides a highly resistant semantic PeeCee-proof coating for the set of ideas to which even the most eloquent talmudoids will have to deal with an extreme prejudice in order not to reveal their obvious despise

    Please elaborate on why?

    Mark my words:


    70-80% of Zer Experts with a desire and moxie to fight Trump’s latest not so modest proposal- on the ground of the SCOTUS First Amendment rulling- won’t be of white/Anglo/Western European heritage:

    What do you think for how long Zer Experts will be able to advocate it’s-just-a -piece-of-cloth rational before the number of highly passionate deplorables exponentially grows to the unbearable level for the current status quo stance of The Supreme Court Justices ?

    Read More
    • Replies: @bored identity
    Three days after:


    http://dailycaller.com/2016/12/02/college-brings-back-us-flag-after-mass-denunciations/
  154. @bored identity
    Mark my words:



    70-80% of Zer Experts with a desire and moxie to fight Trump's latest not so modest proposal- on the ground of the SCOTUS First Amendment rulling- won't be of white/Anglo/Western European heritage:


    https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/803567993036754944

     

    What do you think for how long Zer Experts will be able to advocate it's-just-a -piece-of-cloth rational before the number of highly passionate deplorables exponentially grows to the unbearable level for the current status quo stance of The Supreme Court Justices ?
    Read More

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