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From The New Yorker:

Our Far-Flung Correspondents

AUGUST 31, 2015 ISSUE

The Other France
Are the suburbs of Paris incubators of terrorism?

BY GEORGE PACKER

Although the alienated, impoverished immigrant communities outside Paris are increasingly prone to anti-Semitism, the profiles of French jihadists don’t track closely with class. Many of them have come from bourgeois families.

This is one of those immensely long New Yorkery articles that aren’t really worth reading unless your dentist is running way behind, but the overall impression conveyed of France’s Middle Eastern and black African neighborhoods is dismal and alarming.

Some attention is given to blaming the poor performance of blacks and Arabs in France on France’s revolutionary traditions of secular, individualist Republicanism, not to mention the Algerian uprising of 1954-1962, although no effort is made to determine if France does better or worse with these populations than other European countries with other traditions and other histories.

But of course the most striking omission is any reference to the current Camp of the Saints. The mainstream media’s conventional wisdom is that countries like France should take in more, much, much more of the hair of the dog that bit them.

Reading Packer’s article, it would be virtually impossible to think that a wise course of action. On the other hand, dissenters are punished.

So the issue of the hour is simply ignored in this piece.

 
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  1. Steve, the infinite scrolling that Ron introduced is really making your page load slowly on my computer. I much preferred the old system where I could just click on “older posts” to go back to older posts. Ironically, the infinite scrolling makes it much harder than it was before for me to catch up on two weeks of iSteve if I haven’t visited for two weeks, because it takes so long for the older stories to load.

    • Replies: @anon
    Re: infinite scrolling

    Fwiw, I strongly second this opinion.

    , @Ron Unz

    Steve, the infinite scrolling that Ron introduced is really making your page load slowly on my computer. I much preferred the old system where I could just click on “older posts” to go back to older posts.
     
    No problem. Just go to the "Menu" item near the top of the screen, select "User Settings," and then check the box "No Infinite Scrolling" to turn that feature off on your device (the setting is saved in a permanent cookie).

    Frankly, I find "Infinite Scrolling" a little inconvenient myself, so I always have it turned off.

    Finally, if you want an ultra-fast loaded summary of Steve's recent posts, select the "Teaser" link option (also available by clicking Steve's name).
  2. Is this guy’s middle name “Fudge” by any chance?

    • Replies: @Jim Don Bob
    Ding ding ding! We have an early winner!
  3. I love the New Yorker’s cartoons, but I’ve long had the impression when reading its articles that I’m spying on some Upper West Side conversation that wasn’t meant for me. I get the strange feeling that I’m eavesdropping.

    One off-putting characteristic of media coverage of immigration-related issues in general is the passive attitude toward demographics. The displacement of natives by millions of foreigners with strange customs is just something that kind of happens, the way a thunderstorm happens. To the extent the issue is discussed, it’s always in feckless, reactive terms. “Have the French adapted their secular values to the needs of Muslim youth?” “Have you made sure your gutters are clear of leaf clutter?”

    Every article about immigration-related problems should have stamped across the top, “Why did we even allow this to become an issue?!”

    • Agree: Romanian
    • Replies: @bomag
    the passive attitude toward demographics

    This.

    Plus, the hordes of migrants/invaders/looters is treated like a temporary problem, akin to the brakes on your car not working: a fix will be found eventually, and we can get back on the road with everything the way it was before.
    , @Bill B.
    Yes. The language carefully excludes an possibility except that this is inevitable, irreversible, obvious. The NYT:


    EUROPE

    For Thousands of Exhausted Migrants, a Journey’s End in Munich
    By EMMARIE HUETTEMAN and KATARINA JOHANNSENSEPT. 1, 2015
  4. Houllebecq has certainly returned from les vacances d’août so perhaps we shall see how he perceives the issues.

  5. I’ve subscribed to the New Yorker for 20 years. But this year will be the last. Like too much of American life it’s become over politicized. I don’t mind reading articles that differ from my political perspective. But I find it boring when every article does.

  6. “prone to anti-Semitism”

    When those blacks and Muslims hate whites, Jews cheer it on as ‘anti-racism’.
    When blacks and Muslims eventually notice that Jews are even more powerful in proportional terms than white gentiles, that is ‘antisemitism’.

    “Please hate whites, not us.”

  7. “This is one of those immensely long New Yorkery articles that aren’t really worth reading unless your dentist is running way behind”

    Classic.

    • Agree: E. Burke
  8. “Although the alienated, impoverished immigrant communities outside Paris are increasingly prone to anti-Semitism,”

    So alienation causes Immigrants in France to start hating Jews? Also why does this article not get specific and name which Immigrant communities in France hate the Jews? Is it France’s Japanese Immigrant community? Is it France’s Icelandic Immigrant community?

  9. Three good Jewish atheist/agnostic British-American lawyer friends pointed this article out to me a few days ago. Several things to note:

    – The article’s general survey of France and of the French banlieue is quite accurate. When I step into one of these neighborhoods I have the vague feeling of having walked into a creepy foreign movie with no subtitles. Even when the people around me speak French at least 80% of them do not think or reflect or respond to the same instinctive “cues” we and most of the people we know do – including most of the people of color we encounter in what we would consider “normal” quarters.

    – The article is also correct that the most passionate jihadists seem to come from more “educated” backgrounds. This belies the common notion that the ISIL nutbags “don’t know their religion” – on the contrary, they know it better than most, which is why they follow the lead of the Prophet (insulting whom would be punishable by death, a sentence any Muslim in good standing is competent to carry out) – and also belies the notion that education and opportunity will result in better integration of disaffected (mostly Muslim by confession) communities.

    – The article is however quite facetious in portraying Ben Ahmed as a hometown hero worthy of civic respect. Were he at all integrated or even desirous of integration he would have left those quarters as soon as he could. On the contrary:

    He was an indifferent student, forced to repeat several grades, but his mother made him stick with it, because her welfare benefits would drop if he quit school.

    What a family of winners!

    He helped support her and his little brother by delivering washing machines to Paris apartments. Some of his friends were drug dealers, and Ben Ahmed might have become a criminal, too, had he not met Carolina, the daughter of political refugees from Chile. When they were eighteen, she told Ben Ahmed to choose between his crowd and her. With Carolina’s help, he finished high school, got a college degree in social management, and became a youth organizer.

    As the example of the United States shows, no one can do more damage than an uppity ghetto community organizer, especially when the media covers for him. Brace yourselves if anyone ever starts murmuring about a Président Ben Ahmed of France.

  10. @Troy
    Steve, the infinite scrolling that Ron introduced is really making your page load slowly on my computer. I much preferred the old system where I could just click on "older posts" to go back to older posts. Ironically, the infinite scrolling makes it much harder than it was before for me to catch up on two weeks of iSteve if I haven't visited for two weeks, because it takes so long for the older stories to load.

    Re: infinite scrolling

    Fwiw, I strongly second this opinion.

  11. “People who ask whether better government policies could have made Muslim immigration to Europe less of a debacle tend to look at Britain and France as two ends of a spectrum of approaches…” [but] “the grim fact is that no Western European country—not one— has managed even a marginally successful integration of its Muslim immigrants, despite half a century of vast treasury outlays, wholesale constitutional re-workings, and indefatigable excuse-making. One is drawn to the conclusion that no successful integration was ever to be expected. Larger historical currents were at play. Islam was on the rise. Europe had lost its élan vital, or its mojo, or whatever you choose to call it. The idea that Europe could handle a mass immigration of Muslims may have been a momentous historical mistake.” – Christopher Caldwell

    Compare this to all-star intellectual historian Samuel Moyn’s forthcoming book, which is apparently about how Europe hasn’t been able to assimilate Muslim immigrants because it remains too damn Christian:

    http://scholar.harvard.edu/smoyn/publications/christian-human-rights

    “Moyn demonstrates how the language of human rights was separated from the secular heritage of the French Revolution and put to use by postwar democracies governed by Christian parties, which reinvented them to impose moral constraints on individuals, support conservative family structures, and preserve existing social hierarchies. The book ends with a provocative chapter that traces contemporary European struggles to assimilate Muslim immigrants to the continent’s legacy of Christian human rights.”

    Moyn is a fine historian, but this just seems batty. How could the “legacy of Christian human rights” explain the failures of both Britain’s comfort with multiculturalism and parallel communities and France’s nationalist assimilationism?

    This is also where the Kevin MacDonald critique of “critique” falls off the rails, because clearly the Moyn interpretation is bad not only for European Christians (or legacy “Christians”) but also for European Jews. It fails to identify the real problem (mass immigration of Muslims) as a problem in and of itself.

    • Replies: @Jim Don Bob
    Whatever Christopher Caldwell writes is always worth reading. A unique mind, like OGH.
    , @Lagertha
    When I read the New Yorker article it just depressed me...it was singularly a piece that convinced me further that there is no hope and an existential crises is looming...can't get "The Looming Tower" out of my head right now! I was in northern Europe this summer, and I came home with a creeped-out feeling. I totally agree that assimilation of most Muslims has not worked in the countries I know well. The lone exception may be the Kurds who came after Iraq War I.

    Christianity has nothing to do with Muslims not assimilating since so many Europeans (northern, in particular) are not going to church or even identifying with Protestant or Catholic religion, or any religion. However, no religious ideals also offend the obsessively religious. Why can't they leave me and my culture alone?

    Many articles in newspapers this summer featured some Muslim man complaining about the scantily clad women in European cities - granted, I was reading more tabloidy papers, "evening" newspapers NOT the venerable paper of the capital. Almost daily there was an article about European women walking around in short-shorts or something - my husband was not offended. It was so weird since it was also very hot. And, sheesh, people in shorts and sleeveless tops (men & women) have been de rigueur since the ABBA days. Not so nice to see beer-belly-man-bears in Speedos or Addidas running shorts seaside or at brew terraces, but gotta give credit for them for their confidence. I find it interesting that Nordic men are not doing Brazilians...too frou-frou for them!

    I still don't understand this obsession world-wide to accept immigrants who refuse to assimilate - and, yeah, am aware of MacDonald's ideas. Of course, some countries are starting to chirp about the enormous costs of housing, feeding, educating, providing medical care to millions who may never get off of welfare. There are just not enough middle-class tax payers to pay for all this. But, Europeans are afraid to be called Nazis if they chirp too loud. Yet, the worker-bees paying all the taxes are restless; soon it turns cold and rainy and living outdoors and wearing short-shorts is over. Winter is coming, indeed.

    , @anon

    This is also where the Kevin MacDonald critique of “critique” falls off the rails, because clearly the Moyn interpretation is bad not only for European Christians (or legacy “Christians”) but also for European Jews.
     
    If you take the gist of culture of critique and modify it so the main driving force behind the behavior is short-term paranoia rather than long-term logic then Mr Moyn is a perfect example.
  12. @Troy
    Steve, the infinite scrolling that Ron introduced is really making your page load slowly on my computer. I much preferred the old system where I could just click on "older posts" to go back to older posts. Ironically, the infinite scrolling makes it much harder than it was before for me to catch up on two weeks of iSteve if I haven't visited for two weeks, because it takes so long for the older stories to load.

    Steve, the infinite scrolling that Ron introduced is really making your page load slowly on my computer. I much preferred the old system where I could just click on “older posts” to go back to older posts.

    No problem. Just go to the “Menu” item near the top of the screen, select “User Settings,” and then check the box “No Infinite Scrolling” to turn that feature off on your device (the setting is saved in a permanent cookie).

    Frankly, I find “Infinite Scrolling” a little inconvenient myself, so I always have it turned off.

    Finally, if you want an ultra-fast loaded summary of Steve’s recent posts, select the “Teaser” link option (also available by clicking Steve’s name).

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    How do I do this in Firefox?
    , @Citizen of a Silly Country
    Ron,

    Let take this opportunity to say how impressed I am that you personally answer so many "support" questions from Joe Blow commentators. It's remarkable given your position.

    Also, let me thank you for the Unz Review in general, and, specifically, for allowing the type of debate that goes on in the comments sections. I can see why you and Steve are friends.
    , @AnotherDad
    Very nice Ron.

    Just did that and found you also have a *great* feature to turn off facebook. Awesome!

    I've never understood why it's so gosh darn critical for every news\opinion page to link to that toad's gianormous time waster--and drag yet more useless loads into every page load. Great you've enabled turning all that off.

    Now if i could just figure out how to get the "agree" and "disagree" buttons everyone else has.

    , @Troy
    Thanks Ron! I wondered if there was some way to turn it off of which I was ignorant. You've really done a fantastic job making this website user-friendly.
  13. Although the alienated, impoverished immigrant communities outside Paris are increasingly prone to anti-Semitism, the profiles of French jihadists don’t track closely with class. Many of them have come from bourgeois families.

    There are two implicit lies in that mentality: One, that poverty causes terrorism, and two, that Muslims’ anti-Semitism is the only worrisome driver of terrorism.

  14. @Ron Unz

    Steve, the infinite scrolling that Ron introduced is really making your page load slowly on my computer. I much preferred the old system where I could just click on “older posts” to go back to older posts.
     
    No problem. Just go to the "Menu" item near the top of the screen, select "User Settings," and then check the box "No Infinite Scrolling" to turn that feature off on your device (the setting is saved in a permanent cookie).

    Frankly, I find "Infinite Scrolling" a little inconvenient myself, so I always have it turned off.

    Finally, if you want an ultra-fast loaded summary of Steve's recent posts, select the "Teaser" link option (also available by clicking Steve's name).

    How do I do this in Firefox?

    • Replies: @Ron Unz
    Firefox should works exactly the same as Chrome or any other browser, and seems to do so for me.

    Incidentally, if people are still unhappy with the load-time of the Blog pages, the culprit is probably the current number of Blog posts initially loaded by default, which is 20. Depending upon their length and e.g. their use of YouTube videos, they might take too long to load and render on slower devices.

    If enough people are encountering that problem, it would be very easy for me to reduce the initial total to 10 posts, thereby doubling the load speed.
  15. I read about streams of new academic peer studies every day, including today: “It’s the latest study to debunk the connection between immigrants and crime.” Another headline: http://www.psmag.com/politics-and-law/illegal-immigration-might-actually-reduce-crime-rates

    And, simultaneously we see stories about high crime in the immigrant banlieues. And separate stories on the “inequities” of high non-white arrest rates in the US.

    Which is it?

    Are immigrants reducing crime rates and drug use and increasing prosperity? Or are the immigrant banlieues a cesspool of crime and drugs and poverty?

    Are mass numbers of non-white US immigrants bringing low crime, low drug use, and prosperity, or are non-whites begin arrested for dramatically higher levels of crime?

    It is beyond ridiculous that the same political class can loudly push both messages at the same time that so blatantly contradict each other.

    • Replies: @anon
    1) young male blue collar immigrants increase crime
    2) police arrest them in proportion to their crime rate
    3) media attack police for discriminating
    4) police give up and ignore crime / fiddle stats
    5) official crime rate goes down
    6) white flight
    7) media happy

    rinse and repeat in next town
  16. The Muzzies will never attack the noble and good lovers of humanity!!! That’s what they must tell themselves when they bolt awake in a sweat at 3 AM, the noble and good ones.

  17. @Ron Unz

    Steve, the infinite scrolling that Ron introduced is really making your page load slowly on my computer. I much preferred the old system where I could just click on “older posts” to go back to older posts.
     
    No problem. Just go to the "Menu" item near the top of the screen, select "User Settings," and then check the box "No Infinite Scrolling" to turn that feature off on your device (the setting is saved in a permanent cookie).

    Frankly, I find "Infinite Scrolling" a little inconvenient myself, so I always have it turned off.

    Finally, if you want an ultra-fast loaded summary of Steve's recent posts, select the "Teaser" link option (also available by clicking Steve's name).

    Ron,

    Let take this opportunity to say how impressed I am that you personally answer so many “support” questions from Joe Blow commentators. It’s remarkable given your position.

    Also, let me thank you for the Unz Review in general, and, specifically, for allowing the type of debate that goes on in the comments sections. I can see why you and Steve are friends.

    • Replies: @a Newsreader
    I want to say that I completely agree with this comment. Ron Unz's commitment to responding to his website's users in a transparent way is uncommon, remarkable, and appreciated.
  18. @Anonymous
    How do I do this in Firefox?

    Firefox should works exactly the same as Chrome or any other browser, and seems to do so for me.

    Incidentally, if people are still unhappy with the load-time of the Blog pages, the culprit is probably the current number of Blog posts initially loaded by default, which is 20. Depending upon their length and e.g. their use of YouTube videos, they might take too long to load and render on slower devices.

    If enough people are encountering that problem, it would be very easy for me to reduce the initial total to 10 posts, thereby doubling the load speed.

  19. of the Saints. The mainstream media’s conventional wisdom is that countries like France should take in more, much, much more of the hair of the dog that bit them.

    In Japan, the people who are in touch with the western conventional wisdom (through European friends, etc) think that Japan needs to start taking in refugees just “do their part”. If you ask them questions, like how many is enough, they have never given thought to the matter, but they have ‘correct’ opinions to guide them. Sad and disheartening.

  20. @ABN
    I love the New Yorker's cartoons, but I've long had the impression when reading its articles that I'm spying on some Upper West Side conversation that wasn't meant for me. I get the strange feeling that I'm eavesdropping.

    One off-putting characteristic of media coverage of immigration-related issues in general is the passive attitude toward demographics. The displacement of natives by millions of foreigners with strange customs is just something that kind of happens, the way a thunderstorm happens. To the extent the issue is discussed, it's always in feckless, reactive terms. "Have the French adapted their secular values to the needs of Muslim youth?" "Have you made sure your gutters are clear of leaf clutter?"

    Every article about immigration-related problems should have stamped across the top, "Why did we even allow this to become an issue?!"

    the passive attitude toward demographics

    This.

    Plus, the hordes of migrants/invaders/looters is treated like a temporary problem, akin to the brakes on your car not working: a fix will be found eventually, and we can get back on the road with everything the way it was before.

  21. You wonder if Muslims are doing relatively well in France. From my time in Western Europe, in every area they produce large numbers of burkas and menacing loitering youths. If there is an exception, I am unaware of it. It is probably the USA that has the best behaved Muslim population due to selection effects and a large share of semi secular Indian Muslims and upper class Westernized Arabs.

    There is also a large element of Muslim kids adopting American gangsta rap culture.

  22. @Anonymous
    Is this guy's middle name "Fudge" by any chance?

    Ding ding ding! We have an early winner!

  23. @timothy
    "People who ask whether better government policies could have made Muslim immigration to Europe less of a debacle tend to look at Britain and France as two ends of a spectrum of approaches..." [but] "the grim fact is that no Western European country—not one— has managed even a marginally successful integration of its Muslim immigrants, despite half a century of vast treasury outlays, wholesale constitutional re-workings, and indefatigable excuse-making. One is drawn to the conclusion that no successful integration was ever to be expected. Larger historical currents were at play. Islam was on the rise. Europe had lost its élan vital, or its mojo, or whatever you choose to call it. The idea that Europe could handle a mass immigration of Muslims may have been a momentous historical mistake." - Christopher Caldwell

    Compare this to all-star intellectual historian Samuel Moyn's forthcoming book, which is apparently about how Europe hasn't been able to assimilate Muslim immigrants because it remains too damn Christian:

    http://scholar.harvard.edu/smoyn/publications/christian-human-rights

    "Moyn demonstrates how the language of human rights was separated from the secular heritage of the French Revolution and put to use by postwar democracies governed by Christian parties, which reinvented them to impose moral constraints on individuals, support conservative family structures, and preserve existing social hierarchies. The book ends with a provocative chapter that traces contemporary European struggles to assimilate Muslim immigrants to the continent's legacy of Christian human rights."

    Moyn is a fine historian, but this just seems batty. How could the "legacy of Christian human rights" explain the failures of both Britain's comfort with multiculturalism and parallel communities and France's nationalist assimilationism?

    This is also where the Kevin MacDonald critique of "critique" falls off the rails, because clearly the Moyn interpretation is bad not only for European Christians (or legacy "Christians") but also for European Jews. It fails to identify the real problem (mass immigration of Muslims) as a problem in and of itself.

    Whatever Christopher Caldwell writes is always worth reading. A unique mind, like OGH.

    • Replies: @timothy
    Who is OGH?
  24. “The mainstream media’s conventional wisdom is that countries like France should take in more, much, much more of the hair of the dog that bit them.”

    Whenever I see mainstream media video of the wave of immigrants coming to Europe, I can’t help but notice that, while the media focuses on pitiful refugee families with babies, most of the immigrants are healthy young men 18-30, well-dressed, equipped with very functional backpacks and money for trains.

    Apparently, Europeans don’t realize that EACH of these young men represents a DOZEN family members that pooled their money to finance the young guy with the best chance of establishing a beachhead and then bringing the rest of the family to France, Germany, UK etc.

    Germany won’t be accepting 800,000 immigrants, as they intend, but 10,000,000, for example.

    • Replies: @Sean the Neon Caucasian
    "Whenever I see mainstream media video of the wave of immigrants coming to Europe, I can’t help but notice that, while the media focuses on pitiful refugee families with babies, most of the immigrants are healthy young men 18-30, well-dressed, equipped with very functional backpacks and money for trains."

    Yeah, nothing like pulling of the 'ol heartstrings for propaganda. No, they aren't immigrants, they're downtrodden people just looking for the better life for their kids (now my view, just how I see its attempted portrayal).
    , @Bill B.
    I wonder how much the great sea of slutty white girl pornography on the internet weighs in the mind of the cheeky African and Arabian opportunist?

    Free everything … and white girls. I am not joking. As the British and Swedish experience shows Western countries big on individualism are extremely vulnerable to marauding, ruthless packs of men hunting naive, alien femininity.

    The irritating feminists were probably right for once in saying that pornography dehumanizes women; surely it is dehumanization on steroids where the eager new hoards are concerned? How many of these smiling faces in the boat peering up at the helicopter imagine that what they see on the internet is the reality?

    But this is never mentioned.
  25. It is probably the USA that has the best behaved Muslim population due to selection effects and a large share of semi secular Indian Muslims and upper class Westernized Arabs.

    Wait until the U.S. gets around 10% Muslim. Only 1% now.

  26. My comment at Marginal Revolution on Icelandic Immigration below the line.
    The post is possibly the moment when Open Borders Advocates have really gone insane.

    —————————

    If I bring a guest to a dinner party, and they do something wrong – get drunk and break a vase, most people in society would hold me morally responsible.

    A question for those that want to bring in these people to Iceland: If they do something horribly wrong, rape, murder, etc – Are you responsible? If not, why? Please explain.

  27. Priss Factor [AKA "skiapolemistis"] says:

    http://americanpowerblog.blogspot.com/2015/09/missouri-high-school-protests-as.html

    Okay. This is about some guy with dress wanting to go wee wee in the girls’ room.
    It is still simple enough, I guess.

    Now, what happens when some tranny says he/she is neither he nor she and his/her kind needs a washroom all their own? Does that mean every school will have to offer three kinds of washrooms? One for boys, one for girls, one for whatever? And then, what if female trannies say they feel uncomfortable with male trannies. Will that require all schools to offer four washrooms?

    If male and female are no longer enough, then maybe some trannies will feel uncomfortable in any washroom designated simply as ‘male’ or ‘female’.

    And maybe boy trannies who wear dresses need special kind of urinals to get it done.

    These homos and trannies. They keep saying that society has to be more ‘inclusive’, but they themselves are so fussy fussy about everything and say ‘this’ isn’t good enough for them, and etc.

  28. @Jim Don Bob
    Whatever Christopher Caldwell writes is always worth reading. A unique mind, like OGH.

    Who is OGH?

    • Agree: Nico
    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    Who is OGH?
     
    Ovine growth hormone. It's BGH for the sheepish.
  29. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    FBI outlines reasons why six Southwest Airlines passengers were arrested and charged in Amarillo

    The six, said to be members of a San Diego area soccer team, were subsequently arrested and charged with “interference with a flight crew and abetting.”

    Basically, according to Hendricks per Southwest, the passengers –Khalid Yohana, 19; Wasim Imad Shaker, 23; Essa Solaqa, 20; Ghazwan Assad Shaba, 21; Jonathan Khalid Petras, 20; and Saiman Hermez, 19– were refusing orders from the flight attendants, challenging their authority and being mean to other passengers.

    One flight attendant said that during the emergency demonstration prior to takeoff, the six “were asked numerous times to put their seat backs and tray tables up, which is required for takeoff of the aircraft, to which they verbally responded ‘no.’”

    They “complied” after the flight attendant warned them the airplane would return to the gate if they didn’t do so.

    “Later, while the flight attendants were taking drink orders, the six passengers started talking loudly and using profanity,” Hendricks said in his affidavit. The flight attendant “asked them to quiet down and they responded, ‘We can be as loud as we want and do whatever the [expletive] we want on here. You can’t make us listen.’”

    When the flight attendant “said they couldn’t do that, they lunged forward in their seats and said, ‘We can do whatever we want on here.’”

    That flight attendant denied their request for alcohol. They “became aggressive by lunging forward” at the flight attendant, who “stated she felt threatened and that they were escalating their aggressive behavior.”

    The passengers asked another flight attendant why the first flight attendant wouldn’t serve them alcohol. That flight attendant also declined to serve them.

    “They accused the attendants of being racist” and called the second flight attendant a “pig” as she walked away. The passengers then told a third flight attendant “that they could do whatever they wanted to because they bought a ticket.”

    The passengers “did not comply with anything they were asked to do and were repeatedly standing up and becoming increasing louder. Due to the increase in their non-compliant and unpredictable behavior,” one flight attendant “felt uncomfortable and saw that they were attempting to incite other passengers to join in their non-compliant behavior.”

    A flight attendant asked the pilots to divert the aircraft.

    According to the affidavit, a passenger across the aisle from the six passengers heard them call the flight attendant a racist and pig.

    “She heard them tell each other to throw gang signs, and then saw them using their hands to gesture gang signs. After using the bathroom, one of the passengers leaned towards the female passengers and called her a [expletive], ‘ugly ass’ and ugly.’ He then gave her the middle finger gesture. The passenger began to cry and was shaking. She contacted the flight attendants and was moved to another seat.”

    http://aviationblog.dallasnews.com/2015/09/fbi-outlines-reasons-why-six-southwest-airlines-passengers-were-arrested-and-charged-in-amarillo.html/

    Life in Europe and the U.S. will be like being a passenger in this plane with these types, sans the flight diversion and FBI arrests.

  30. @Anon7
    "The mainstream media’s conventional wisdom is that countries like France should take in more, much, much more of the hair of the dog that bit them."

    Whenever I see mainstream media video of the wave of immigrants coming to Europe, I can't help but notice that, while the media focuses on pitiful refugee families with babies, most of the immigrants are healthy young men 18-30, well-dressed, equipped with very functional backpacks and money for trains.

    Apparently, Europeans don't realize that EACH of these young men represents a DOZEN family members that pooled their money to finance the young guy with the best chance of establishing a beachhead and then bringing the rest of the family to France, Germany, UK etc.

    Germany won't be accepting 800,000 immigrants, as they intend, but 10,000,000, for example.

    “Whenever I see mainstream media video of the wave of immigrants coming to Europe, I can’t help but notice that, while the media focuses on pitiful refugee families with babies, most of the immigrants are healthy young men 18-30, well-dressed, equipped with very functional backpacks and money for trains.”

    Yeah, nothing like pulling of the ‘ol heartstrings for propaganda. No, they aren’t immigrants, they’re downtrodden people just looking for the better life for their kids (now my view, just how I see its attempted portrayal).

  31. A little OT, but this VDARE post addresses the border fence…

    http://www.vdare.com/posts/the-psychology-of-the-great-wall-of-trump-vs-jebs-cant-do-cuckservatism

    Of course, Steve always uses the Israelis as an example of the fact that the wall can be built, but for some reason, I never think of another famous border fence…

    US-Mexican border: 1,933 miles
    Great Wall of China: 5,500 miles

    !!

  32. @Ron Unz

    Steve, the infinite scrolling that Ron introduced is really making your page load slowly on my computer. I much preferred the old system where I could just click on “older posts” to go back to older posts.
     
    No problem. Just go to the "Menu" item near the top of the screen, select "User Settings," and then check the box "No Infinite Scrolling" to turn that feature off on your device (the setting is saved in a permanent cookie).

    Frankly, I find "Infinite Scrolling" a little inconvenient myself, so I always have it turned off.

    Finally, if you want an ultra-fast loaded summary of Steve's recent posts, select the "Teaser" link option (also available by clicking Steve's name).

    Very nice Ron.

    Just did that and found you also have a *great* feature to turn off facebook. Awesome!

    I’ve never understood why it’s so gosh darn critical for every news\opinion page to link to that toad’s gianormous time waster–and drag yet more useless loads into every page load. Great you’ve enabled turning all that off.

    Now if i could just figure out how to get the “agree” and “disagree” buttons everyone else has.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    Now if i could just figure out how to get the “agree” and “disagree” buttons everyone else has.
     
    Don't bother. They've never worked for me. Unless I bump one… and if it's the wrong one, it works fine.
    , @Ron Unz

    Now if i could just figure out how to get the “agree” and “disagree” buttons everyone else has.
     
    http://www.unz.com/announcement/banning-commenters-and-adding-contributors/
  33. @AnotherDad
    Very nice Ron.

    Just did that and found you also have a *great* feature to turn off facebook. Awesome!

    I've never understood why it's so gosh darn critical for every news\opinion page to link to that toad's gianormous time waster--and drag yet more useless loads into every page load. Great you've enabled turning all that off.

    Now if i could just figure out how to get the "agree" and "disagree" buttons everyone else has.

    Now if i could just figure out how to get the “agree” and “disagree” buttons everyone else has.

    Don’t bother. They’ve never worked for me. Unless I bump one… and if it’s the wrong one, it works fine.

  34. @timothy
    Who is OGH?

    Who is OGH?

    Ovine growth hormone. It’s BGH for the sheepish.

  35. @Ron Unz

    Steve, the infinite scrolling that Ron introduced is really making your page load slowly on my computer. I much preferred the old system where I could just click on “older posts” to go back to older posts.
     
    No problem. Just go to the "Menu" item near the top of the screen, select "User Settings," and then check the box "No Infinite Scrolling" to turn that feature off on your device (the setting is saved in a permanent cookie).

    Frankly, I find "Infinite Scrolling" a little inconvenient myself, so I always have it turned off.

    Finally, if you want an ultra-fast loaded summary of Steve's recent posts, select the "Teaser" link option (also available by clicking Steve's name).

    Thanks Ron! I wondered if there was some way to turn it off of which I was ignorant. You’ve really done a fantastic job making this website user-friendly.

  36. @ABN
    I love the New Yorker's cartoons, but I've long had the impression when reading its articles that I'm spying on some Upper West Side conversation that wasn't meant for me. I get the strange feeling that I'm eavesdropping.

    One off-putting characteristic of media coverage of immigration-related issues in general is the passive attitude toward demographics. The displacement of natives by millions of foreigners with strange customs is just something that kind of happens, the way a thunderstorm happens. To the extent the issue is discussed, it's always in feckless, reactive terms. "Have the French adapted their secular values to the needs of Muslim youth?" "Have you made sure your gutters are clear of leaf clutter?"

    Every article about immigration-related problems should have stamped across the top, "Why did we even allow this to become an issue?!"

    Yes. The language carefully excludes an possibility except that this is inevitable, irreversible, obvious. The NYT:

    EUROPE

    For Thousands of Exhausted Migrants, a Journey’s End in Munich
    By EMMARIE HUETTEMAN and KATARINA JOHANNSENSEPT. 1, 2015

  37. @Anon7
    "The mainstream media’s conventional wisdom is that countries like France should take in more, much, much more of the hair of the dog that bit them."

    Whenever I see mainstream media video of the wave of immigrants coming to Europe, I can't help but notice that, while the media focuses on pitiful refugee families with babies, most of the immigrants are healthy young men 18-30, well-dressed, equipped with very functional backpacks and money for trains.

    Apparently, Europeans don't realize that EACH of these young men represents a DOZEN family members that pooled their money to finance the young guy with the best chance of establishing a beachhead and then bringing the rest of the family to France, Germany, UK etc.

    Germany won't be accepting 800,000 immigrants, as they intend, but 10,000,000, for example.

    I wonder how much the great sea of slutty white girl pornography on the internet weighs in the mind of the cheeky African and Arabian opportunist?

    Free everything … and white girls. I am not joking. As the British and Swedish experience shows Western countries big on individualism are extremely vulnerable to marauding, ruthless packs of men hunting naive, alien femininity.

    The irritating feminists were probably right for once in saying that pornography dehumanizes women; surely it is dehumanization on steroids where the eager new hoards are concerned? How many of these smiling faces in the boat peering up at the helicopter imagine that what they see on the internet is the reality?

    But this is never mentioned.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    There's also the more mundane consideration that the simplest way for an illegal guy to get permanent residency is to marry a local woman and/or get her pregnant.
    , @Anonymous
    They're heading to the wrong place.
    San Fernando Valley is 'where it's at'.
  38. @AnotherDad
    Very nice Ron.

    Just did that and found you also have a *great* feature to turn off facebook. Awesome!

    I've never understood why it's so gosh darn critical for every news\opinion page to link to that toad's gianormous time waster--and drag yet more useless loads into every page load. Great you've enabled turning all that off.

    Now if i could just figure out how to get the "agree" and "disagree" buttons everyone else has.

    Now if i could just figure out how to get the “agree” and “disagree” buttons everyone else has.

    http://www.unz.com/announcement/banning-commenters-and-adding-contributors/

  39. @timothy
    "People who ask whether better government policies could have made Muslim immigration to Europe less of a debacle tend to look at Britain and France as two ends of a spectrum of approaches..." [but] "the grim fact is that no Western European country—not one— has managed even a marginally successful integration of its Muslim immigrants, despite half a century of vast treasury outlays, wholesale constitutional re-workings, and indefatigable excuse-making. One is drawn to the conclusion that no successful integration was ever to be expected. Larger historical currents were at play. Islam was on the rise. Europe had lost its élan vital, or its mojo, or whatever you choose to call it. The idea that Europe could handle a mass immigration of Muslims may have been a momentous historical mistake." - Christopher Caldwell

    Compare this to all-star intellectual historian Samuel Moyn's forthcoming book, which is apparently about how Europe hasn't been able to assimilate Muslim immigrants because it remains too damn Christian:

    http://scholar.harvard.edu/smoyn/publications/christian-human-rights

    "Moyn demonstrates how the language of human rights was separated from the secular heritage of the French Revolution and put to use by postwar democracies governed by Christian parties, which reinvented them to impose moral constraints on individuals, support conservative family structures, and preserve existing social hierarchies. The book ends with a provocative chapter that traces contemporary European struggles to assimilate Muslim immigrants to the continent's legacy of Christian human rights."

    Moyn is a fine historian, but this just seems batty. How could the "legacy of Christian human rights" explain the failures of both Britain's comfort with multiculturalism and parallel communities and France's nationalist assimilationism?

    This is also where the Kevin MacDonald critique of "critique" falls off the rails, because clearly the Moyn interpretation is bad not only for European Christians (or legacy "Christians") but also for European Jews. It fails to identify the real problem (mass immigration of Muslims) as a problem in and of itself.

    When I read the New Yorker article it just depressed me…it was singularly a piece that convinced me further that there is no hope and an existential crises is looming…can’t get “The Looming Tower” out of my head right now! I was in northern Europe this summer, and I came home with a creeped-out feeling. I totally agree that assimilation of most Muslims has not worked in the countries I know well. The lone exception may be the Kurds who came after Iraq War I.

    Christianity has nothing to do with Muslims not assimilating since so many Europeans (northern, in particular) are not going to church or even identifying with Protestant or Catholic religion, or any religion. However, no religious ideals also offend the obsessively religious. Why can’t they leave me and my culture alone?

    Many articles in newspapers this summer featured some Muslim man complaining about the scantily clad women in European cities – granted, I was reading more tabloidy papers, “evening” newspapers NOT the venerable paper of the capital. Almost daily there was an article about European women walking around in short-shorts or something – my husband was not offended. It was so weird since it was also very hot. And, sheesh, people in shorts and sleeveless tops (men & women) have been de rigueur since the ABBA days. Not so nice to see beer-belly-man-bears in Speedos or Addidas running shorts seaside or at brew terraces, but gotta give credit for them for their confidence. I find it interesting that Nordic men are not doing Brazilians…too frou-frou for them!

    I still don’t understand this obsession world-wide to accept immigrants who refuse to assimilate – and, yeah, am aware of MacDonald’s ideas. Of course, some countries are starting to chirp about the enormous costs of housing, feeding, educating, providing medical care to millions who may never get off of welfare. There are just not enough middle-class tax payers to pay for all this. But, Europeans are afraid to be called Nazis if they chirp too loud. Yet, the worker-bees paying all the taxes are restless; soon it turns cold and rainy and living outdoors and wearing short-shorts is over. Winter is coming, indeed.

  40. anon • Disclaimer says:
    @timothy
    "People who ask whether better government policies could have made Muslim immigration to Europe less of a debacle tend to look at Britain and France as two ends of a spectrum of approaches..." [but] "the grim fact is that no Western European country—not one— has managed even a marginally successful integration of its Muslim immigrants, despite half a century of vast treasury outlays, wholesale constitutional re-workings, and indefatigable excuse-making. One is drawn to the conclusion that no successful integration was ever to be expected. Larger historical currents were at play. Islam was on the rise. Europe had lost its élan vital, or its mojo, or whatever you choose to call it. The idea that Europe could handle a mass immigration of Muslims may have been a momentous historical mistake." - Christopher Caldwell

    Compare this to all-star intellectual historian Samuel Moyn's forthcoming book, which is apparently about how Europe hasn't been able to assimilate Muslim immigrants because it remains too damn Christian:

    http://scholar.harvard.edu/smoyn/publications/christian-human-rights

    "Moyn demonstrates how the language of human rights was separated from the secular heritage of the French Revolution and put to use by postwar democracies governed by Christian parties, which reinvented them to impose moral constraints on individuals, support conservative family structures, and preserve existing social hierarchies. The book ends with a provocative chapter that traces contemporary European struggles to assimilate Muslim immigrants to the continent's legacy of Christian human rights."

    Moyn is a fine historian, but this just seems batty. How could the "legacy of Christian human rights" explain the failures of both Britain's comfort with multiculturalism and parallel communities and France's nationalist assimilationism?

    This is also where the Kevin MacDonald critique of "critique" falls off the rails, because clearly the Moyn interpretation is bad not only for European Christians (or legacy "Christians") but also for European Jews. It fails to identify the real problem (mass immigration of Muslims) as a problem in and of itself.

    This is also where the Kevin MacDonald critique of “critique” falls off the rails, because clearly the Moyn interpretation is bad not only for European Christians (or legacy “Christians”) but also for European Jews.

    If you take the gist of culture of critique and modify it so the main driving force behind the behavior is short-term paranoia rather than long-term logic then Mr Moyn is a perfect example.

  41. anon • Disclaimer says:
    @Massimo Heitor
    I read about streams of new academic peer studies every day, including today: "It’s the latest study to debunk the connection between immigrants and crime." Another headline: http://www.psmag.com/politics-and-law/illegal-immigration-might-actually-reduce-crime-rates

    And, simultaneously we see stories about high crime in the immigrant banlieues. And separate stories on the "inequities" of high non-white arrest rates in the US.

    Which is it?

    Are immigrants reducing crime rates and drug use and increasing prosperity? Or are the immigrant banlieues a cesspool of crime and drugs and poverty?

    Are mass numbers of non-white US immigrants bringing low crime, low drug use, and prosperity, or are non-whites begin arrested for dramatically higher levels of crime?

    It is beyond ridiculous that the same political class can loudly push both messages at the same time that so blatantly contradict each other.

    1) young male blue collar immigrants increase crime
    2) police arrest them in proportion to their crime rate
    3) media attack police for discriminating
    4) police give up and ignore crime / fiddle stats
    5) official crime rate goes down
    6) white flight
    7) media happy

    rinse and repeat in next town

  42. @Bill B.
    I wonder how much the great sea of slutty white girl pornography on the internet weighs in the mind of the cheeky African and Arabian opportunist?

    Free everything … and white girls. I am not joking. As the British and Swedish experience shows Western countries big on individualism are extremely vulnerable to marauding, ruthless packs of men hunting naive, alien femininity.

    The irritating feminists were probably right for once in saying that pornography dehumanizes women; surely it is dehumanization on steroids where the eager new hoards are concerned? How many of these smiling faces in the boat peering up at the helicopter imagine that what they see on the internet is the reality?

    But this is never mentioned.

    There’s also the more mundane consideration that the simplest way for an illegal guy to get permanent residency is to marry a local woman and/or get her pregnant.

  43. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    I wonder if many are simply intellectually incapable of drawing correlations between uncontrolled cultural invasions and the current consequences of previous migrations. That would explain why my Facebook feed is full of European and other friends showing their right-on credentials by “liking” memes featuring soccer crowds or German policeman warmly welcoming the invading hordes, or trains with welcoming slogans in Arabic.

  44. Not even the Borg are able to assimilate black moslems.

  45. @Bill B.
    I wonder how much the great sea of slutty white girl pornography on the internet weighs in the mind of the cheeky African and Arabian opportunist?

    Free everything … and white girls. I am not joking. As the British and Swedish experience shows Western countries big on individualism are extremely vulnerable to marauding, ruthless packs of men hunting naive, alien femininity.

    The irritating feminists were probably right for once in saying that pornography dehumanizes women; surely it is dehumanization on steroids where the eager new hoards are concerned? How many of these smiling faces in the boat peering up at the helicopter imagine that what they see on the internet is the reality?

    But this is never mentioned.

    They’re heading to the wrong place.
    San Fernando Valley is ‘where it’s at’.

  46. @Citizen of a Silly Country
    Ron,

    Let take this opportunity to say how impressed I am that you personally answer so many "support" questions from Joe Blow commentators. It's remarkable given your position.

    Also, let me thank you for the Unz Review in general, and, specifically, for allowing the type of debate that goes on in the comments sections. I can see why you and Steve are friends.

    I want to say that I completely agree with this comment. Ron Unz’s commitment to responding to his website’s users in a transparent way is uncommon, remarkable, and appreciated.

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