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From NBER:

When Work Disappears: Manufacturing Decline and the Falling Marriage-Market Value of Men

David Autor, David Dorn, Gordon Hanson

February 2017

Abstract
The structure of marriage and child-rearing in U.S. households has undergone two marked shifts in the last three decades: a steep decline in the prevalence of marriage among young adults, and a sharp rise in the fraction of children born to unmarried mothers or living in single-headed households. A potential contributor to both phenomena is the declining labor-market opportunities faced by males, which make them less valuable as marital partners. We exploit large scale, plausibly exogenous labor-demand shocks stemming from rising international manufacturing competition to test how shifts in the supply of young ‘marriageable’ males affect marriage, fertility and children’s living circumstances. Trade shocks to manufacturing industries have particularly negative impacts on the labor market prospects of men and degrade their marriage market value along multiple dimensions: diminishing their relative earnings—particularly at the lower segment of the distribution—reducing their physical availability in trade-impacted labor markets, and increasing their participation in risky and damaging behaviors. As predicted by a simple model of marital decision-making under uncertainty, we document that adverse shocks to the supply of ‘marriageable’ men reduce the prevalence of marriage and lower fertility but raise the fraction of children born to young and unwed mothers and living in in poor single-parent households. The falling marriage-market value of young men appears to be a quantitatively important contributor to the rising rate of out-of-wedlock childbearing and single-headed childrearing in the United States. …

Two cardinal results help to weave these many empirical strands together. A first is that trade shocks faced by the U.S. manufacturing sector—which employs a disproportionate share of male workers—reduce the economic stature of men relative to women. Consistent with this pattern, shocks to male-intensive manufacturing industries are particularly destabilizing to marriage-markets. A second broad result, predicted by our model and strongly affirmed by the data, is that gender-specific shocks to labor-market outcomes have strikingly non-parallel impacts on marriage-market outcomes. Male-specific shocks reduce overall fertility, but reduce it by less among teens and unmarried mothers than among older and married mothers, thereby increasing the fraction of children born out of wedlock and living in poverty. Conversely, female-specific shocks have more modest effects on overall fertility but reduce the share of births to teens and unmarried mothers, thus raising in-wedlock births and reducing the fraction of children living in single-headed households. These patterns are consistent with our model in which a decline in the quality of male partners makes single motherhood a more attractive option to young mothers, while a decline in female earnings potential increases marriage rates conditional on fertility. Netting over the effects of secularly falling male earnings and improving women’s labor-market conditions during recent decades, our model predicts a reduction in both fertility and marriage, a rise in the fraction of children born out of wedlock, and an increase in the prevalence of children living in single-headed and poor households. These patterns are evident in the aggregate data and, moreover, hold as causal relationships within local labor markets when we isolate plausibly exogenous shocks to earnings opportunities overall and by gender.

It’s a shame my 2005 concept of “affordable family formation” took so long to catch on.

Obviously, the missing word from this article is, as usual, “immigration.” The effects of the China shock in trade and the Mexico shock in immigration were similar.

Illegal immigration to fill male jobs, such as construction worker during the Bush Bubble years, wasn’t good for male Americans, nor for the female Americans who would marry them if they had decent-paying jobs.

 
    []
  1. “It’s a shame by 2005 concept of “affordable family formation” took so long to catch on.”

    “. . . my 2005 concept . . .” Right?

    Read More
    • Replies: @AnotherDad

    “It’s a shame by 2005 concept of “affordable family formation” took so long to catch on.”
     

    I somewhat disagree with our host here. I really don't think this is spot on his "affordable family formation" thesis. It's related.

    But to me a key aspect of his affordable family formation thesis was ... *affordable*. I.e. affordable even for folks who do have jobs. A key aspect in relating it to voting patterns is that family formation is more affordable in flyover country. But it isn't because those folks are in a better place in the job market--actually those are the areas most trade impacted. Rather it was that immigration--crowding cities, crashing the quality of neighborhoods, boosting housing prices--has made *even guys with reasonable jobs, even already married couples* in coastal cities less likely to "get on with it", knock up the wife and start a family. And, of course, that this has political effects.

    This is the companion piece that immigration and trade are suppressing the number of guys who are "husband material" while welfare, the government make work female employment--direct and regulatory driven--technological change and changed sexual mores are reducing the female demand for male provisioning (upping their male price requirement). Men supplying less, women demanding more -> marriage down. You could call it "marriage suppression".

    ~~

    I've thought through this stuff myself in detail, as have many others. Basically male ingenuity has created such incredible prosperity that once the government forced involuntary non-marital redistribution of male labor to females .... lots of females no longer found males to be "mission critical" to their life and even child rearing. Obviously they are still--mostly, lesbian turkey basters aside--relying on males for DNA injection services, and most really, really want a male in their life. But the calculus has definitely changed.

    I think civilization is basically suppressing male conflict over women--via one-per-customer monogamy--into non-violent male competition and cooperation, allowing male energy\capability\ingenuity to be channeled into production and building great stuff. So breaking the marital paradigm puts us in very uncertain territory.

    The one thing i'm certain of: women neither create nor even maintain civilization. They may civilized individual men. But they do not create\maintain civilization. So turning the West in a fem-fest is *not* going to end well. Either real male leadership is re-asserted or the West--as seems to be the case now--will die and be replaced by something less feminized.

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  2. ” …improving women’s labor-market conditions during recent decades…”

    That’s not only sexist, but also sounds very fakexploitative towards men:

    There is only one labour-market; and wimmin of all colors and sizes are just doing awesomely way better than men because they are also, by all means, better fitted than men in all aspects for very demanding needs of very complicated 21st century.

    (Here, I said it!
    Can I get my old job back now?
    Please….)

    Read More
    • Replies: @Peripatetic commenter
    Whoa, you sound like Tiny D*ck!
    , @Jim Christian
    Female HR, affirmative action, government employment and quotas to the private sector bent toward women. Check the commercials. They market all to women because that's where the money is.
  3. Romanian says: • Website

    It should say “It’s a shame my 2005″. I thought it was a very good concept and I’ve been using it, both conversationally and in written form (whenever the subject is relevant to my work), as an umbrella term that people instantly get.

    The question is – does this qualify as a Sailerism? Or are Sailerisms the differing interpretations we give to what other people say? You should get ahead of it and define your opus. Otherwise, Sailer scholars of the 22nd century will be putting words in your mouth to advance their political agendas.

    Read More
  4. This stuff was covered by bloggers 8 years ago. These guys are late to the game.

    When are we going to see the paper “Numbers guys on Wall St, they don’t really produce anything but we pay them a lot anyway”

    The index fund guys are excused. They created a way for the rest of us to store value.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Carbon blob
    'When are we going to see the paper “Numbers guys on Wall St, they don’t really produce anything but we pay them a lot anyway”'

    From talking to some friends who work in the hedge fund industry, I strongly suspect any alpha they deliver is largely a function of (1) latency (getting orders in first) and (2) tax efficiency.
  5. A softball across the plate for Heartiste. As employment prospects become less and less a deciding factor in the mating market, they are replaced more and more by traits such as caddishness, aloofness, ability to “game”, or other even worse displays of dark triad personality types.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Corvinus
    "A softball across the plate for Heartiste. As employment prospects become less and less a deciding factor in the mating market, they are replaced more and more by traits such as caddishness, aloofness, ability to “game”, or other even worse displays of dark triad personality types."

    Not necessarily. Increasing numbers of men who are jobless may become introverts and loners, preferring to keep to themselves and disengage with the general public, including women.

    And here is something Steve conveniently left out. "Although our analysis does not imply that surging import competition from China over the last two decades has been the sole or primary driver of these trends, it highlights that broader declines in the labor market for U.S. males have likely made a substantial contribution—assuming of course that these declines exert qualitatively similar causal effects on marriages, births and household structures as do trade shocks concentrated on manufacturing employment."

    Indeed, assuming. The researchers engaged in correlational research. So while it makes perfect sense that the decline of manufacturing jobs contributes to a man's inability to procure a wife and have children because they are other than desirable "catches", the authors of the study also acknowledge there are other substantial factors at play here. Remember, companies automate to maximize efficiency and reduce costs. It comes as no surprise then when men who do not go to college, enter trade school, or form their own businesses these this particular group will find it more challenging to engage in "family formation".
    , @unpc downunder
    There is no such thing as a general dating market. There are various markets determined by income, class, ideology, lifestyle, age, personality factors etc. Hence caddish behaviour may be on the rise among some sections of the dating market, but may have little bearing on other markets. For example, most career women want a career man, most liberal SJW women want a like-minded liberal man.

    Heartiste only analyses one dating market - the market for young urban party girls. This is a market with a high percentage of females to males and a correspondingly high percentage of cads.

  6. The growing obsolescence of menial labor and increasingly, human data entry and recordkeeping, is an under-remarked problem. We already divert people into way more schooling than they need, and support a lot of useless sinecures (see, again, universities). The retail interface is slowly automating, which is why everybody you deal with as a customer is generally some underpaid, overworked, low-IQ functionary. After the “name-tag jobs” disappear, what then? We will have millions of people with minimal value on the open labor market.

    We aren’t going to let them (me? us?) starve. Hell, we grow enough food to throw a lot of it away. Productivity gains are gobbling up what would otherwise be manifesting as monetary inflation from all the transfer payments. This process, we are assured by the Austrian school, can only result in a massive crash and contraction of the economy back to the level supported by prior savings. But fiat money has weathered a long series of busts and come back each time. My father reminds me people were saying the same thing about the dollar when he was young.

    So what is this undiscovered country in which we find ourselves? Nobody starves to death in the West unless they are overtaken by alcoholism or drug addiction. Even the Third World is finding the resources, either native or imported, to support an unprecedented population boom.

    Has Scarcity been banished for all practical purposes? Are we now at Satiety, again, for all practical purposes? We seemingly can afford to pay young women to have a couple of children without the bother of selecting a reliable breadwinner. I’m not sure what the young men are doing but, being men, they generally find something.

    If we’re at Satiety then the logical next step is Universal Basic Income. Mass democracy is not compatible with UBI.

    Read More
    • Agree: Philip Owen
    • Replies: @bomag

    Mass democracy is not compatible with UBI.
     
    We don't have much of a democracy now.

    Has Scarcity been banished for all practical purposes?
     
    Scarcity comes in other forms: more areas become no-go zones from crime, pollution, and bureaucratic rules; there is less wild area with attendant hunting and nature study; other various frictions increase: I cringe every time I have to make a phone call to any largish organization, or receive a notice from same about another layer of regulation and compliance.
    , @27 year old
    >We aren’t going to let them (me? us?) starve.

    Not sure how many zeroes are on the end of your bank balance, but I personally see myself more likely to be in the "us" side of that statement and I believe most normal people should assume same.

    We should not not not assume that they will not let us starve. We did slavery and they invented Twitter. They hate us and they feel totally justified in eliminating us.

    , @Brutusale
    What, those "service" industry employees don't go on to become famous hosts of cable-access television shows?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Njxj7995VBg
    , @Intelligent Dasein
    Automation is never going to happen and globalism is already on its way out. We are in the mother of all financial bubbles, with $63 trillion in debt currently on the books and untold trillions more of structural spending baked into the cake for the foreseeable future. The enormous Baby Boom cohort is rapidly approaching retirement and senescence, and they have saved nothing. All over the world birthrates are falling, and every developed nation is now sub-replacement---even the USA, even with immigration being what it is.

    In a word, this whole concept of satiety is nonsense. It always was, you know. Men are still mortal, men are still fallible, and nobody has repealed the laws of physics. Satiety is not real; it is the imaginary and desired condition of late cosmopolitan hoi polloi who live only for bread and circuses and insist upon peace at all costs. They grasp at it because they have lost the will to live, and in so grasping they die.
    , @Diversity Heretic
    I'm kind of waiting for Whiskeys post on this one, but if men aren't attractive marriage partners for reasons of economic security, women will be free to indulge their hypergamous tendencies. Lots of young men will have no constructive sexual outlets. I see two possibilities: (1) formation of gangs that simply enslave a number of women for sexual release; or (2) pervasive withdrawal into video games and virtual reality. If technology invents a sexbot that can basically fulfill 90-95% of men's sexual needs, then I think it's game over. Female economic independence is one of Chateau Heartiste's Six Sirenes of the Sexual Apocalypse and it looks like this one is singing louder and louder.
    , @another fred

    My father reminds me people were saying the same thing about the dollar when he was young.
     

    There is a great deal of ruin in a nation. - Adam Smith
     
    Patience.
    , @Harry Baldwin
    Nobody starves to death in the West unless they are overtaken by alcoholism or drug addiction.

    Listening to the radio, I frequently hear PSAs about the "food insecurity" that grips America, the people who aren't sure where their next meal is coming from, and a new charity that sends underprivileged schoolchildren home with a backpack of meals so they can make it through the weekend. And yet it's unusual to see a skinny person in this country, especially a black one. The current argument is that you can have food insecurity and be morbidly obese at the same time.
    , @Bill Jones
    As I've been saying for years, production and distribution were inextricably linked for a couple of centuries: As a rule, the more you produced the more was distributed to you, and pretty much everybody could contribute in production. we have largely solved the problem of production and it requires ever-decreasing numbers of people.

    Clearly some new rule of distribution is coming, the bad news is, it is likely to be decided by the 1%.
    , @Daniel Chieh
    After seeing the effects of welfare states, I've reversed my original position and become very doubtful about Universal Basic Income. In Finland, even without the corrosive effects of immigration, the perpetual welfare state created a very morbid economy; individuals often have no aspiration or struggle, collecting a welfare check but becoming uncertain on how gain status.

    Without the economic reasoning, women often become disinterested in relationships and certainly seem to avoid having children; they look upon the women of the past as oppressed housewives, but neither can they get a high-powered career as in the US, since everything is so regulated and there's no growth.

    Men don't do any better, and there's an overall sense of depression. Wealthier men tend not to start businesses locally, due to the high tax load for the welfare state, and establish businesses in Eastern Europe or other less regulated countries - this further contributes to local joblessness. They also seem to avoid local women, marrying or having mistresses from Eastern Europe or further off in Asia.

    About the only thing that keeps winning is endless credentialism: Finland is the most overeducated society on Earth, largely because if someone can't get a job, she goes back and gets yet another degree. Also, because you need a degree even to be a barista.

    Satiety leads not to production, but to something like mental obesity. Everything grinds down to a stagnant halt; there's something about the shock of immigration that is actually positive, because its something for people to actually feel passion to fight for, or against.

    , @Mr. Blank
    I'm of two minds about UBI. On one hand, I'd like to see what would happen if it were actually implemented. And not just as some half-assed welfare add-on. I mean abolish all or most existing safety net programs and replace them all with a straight Universal Basic Income. I'd be interest to see if it could actually work. It might be the only viable economic model for the future.

    On the other hand: I want some other large country to go first. I'd be too scared to be the first one to try it, because once you go down that path, it might be very hard to switch back if it all collapses.

    People being what they are, I suspect some country's going to come along and try it eventually.
    , @ben tillman

    If we’re at Satiety then the logical next step is Universal Basic Income. Mass democracy is not compatible with UBI.
     
    There are some strong arguments suggesting that UBI (a citizens' dividend) may be the way to insure democracy by preventing centralization of wealth.
    , @Old fogey
    "If we are at satiety" - then we should not be expecting - or even wanting - everyone to be earning a salary. We could easily return to the good old days of family life when children were taken care of by a mother who was in turn taken care of by a husband who earned a salary and who lived his life mainly to ensure that his wife and children were comfortable.

    I remember the 1950s well. They were good times. In our working class home in Crown Heights and later in Queens my father left for work in his luncheonette every morning at 6 am. My mother raised me and my younger brother, and only considered working for a salary when my brother went to school and my high school hours enabled me to watch over him when he returned home. My mother was the only woman working in our neighborhood, and it was clear that if I ever needed help for any reason while she was away I could call on any of the neighboring mothers for help. No one was rich, but no one was poor. From my perspective, I don't see how encouraging masses of women to give up their concentration on home and family for mainly meaningless work in offices and shops was a boon for society. It certainly has not been good for children.
  7. Well the general idea is to pulverize and destroy white males, isn’t it? For the life of me, I cannot understand how any white males can vote democrat, which is increasingly open about its quest to flatten white guys (e.g., comments from mega-moron Sally Boynton Brown who ran for dnc chair-object).

    Read More
    • Replies: @Jefferson
    "I cannot understand how any white males can vote democrat, which is increasingly open about its quest to flatten white guys"

    The Democratic Party as well as the Left in Europe are also extremely hostile towards White women. They completely ignore White women who are raped/killed by Muslim men, Mestizo men/Illegal Immigrant men, and Black men.

    In 2008 Crooked Cankles was not seen as vibrantly diverse enough by voters voting in the Democratic primaries even though she has a vagina.

    On the Left skin color still trumps private sexual parts on the vibrant diversity food chain.

    On the Left a Black penis is way more vibrantly diverse than a White vagina.

    Hence why the likes of George Soros likes Blackness way more than he likes Feminism. You don't see George Soros starting an astro turf group called Women Lives Matter. Feminism bores him but Blackity Black Black Black sends a tingle up his legs. In George Soros eyes Ta-Nehisi Coates is a trillion times cooler than Gloria Steinem.

    Feminism is boring yo. Feminism didn't give us cool Black culture like Hip Hop and the NBA nahmean.

    , @MBlanc46
    It does appear that fewer and fewer of them are doing so.
  8. Anon says: • Disclaimer

    OT – I see the Oscars hve become the Special Olympics. Dumb blacks not getting all the attention. No problem, throw a temper tantrum. Bully, threaten a intimidate the butterflies on the Oscars – rewards. Doesn’t matter if you.re unattractive, no intelligence, criminal, NO pc afgirmative action awards for all!

    Read More
  9. Arclight says:

    A lot is written about the total destruction of the black family and the resulting 70%+ rate of illegitimate births, and I think this paper’s concept and the impact of immigration has something to do with it. In Washington, DC, the construction trades were dominated by blacks until a few decades ago, when it switched to immigrant labor. This used to come up in casual conversation in my mostly-black neighborhood – the older residents lamented the fact that you would go around the city and see latin workers at every job site when those used to be black jobs, although at the same time it was admitted that the latin laborers were definitely harder workers.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Connecticut Famer
    The latins actually DO tend to work hard. But they will take less. For them, just getting paid (usually cash) is a treat. And that's the problem. The demand for cheap labor is a driver behind illegal immigration.
    , @MW
    Yup. The plight of African-Americans should have been a warning to white America, even if they didn't care about the welfare of blacks per se. If you run the same experiment on whites (i.e. take away the economic opportunities for a huge % of their men), why would you not expect similar results?
    , @Federalist
    But then those same blacks voted for Hillary over Trump. Why? I guess because Trump is supposedly racist.
  10. @Arclight
    A lot is written about the total destruction of the black family and the resulting 70%+ rate of illegitimate births, and I think this paper's concept and the impact of immigration has something to do with it. In Washington, DC, the construction trades were dominated by blacks until a few decades ago, when it switched to immigrant labor. This used to come up in casual conversation in my mostly-black neighborhood - the older residents lamented the fact that you would go around the city and see latin workers at every job site when those used to be black jobs, although at the same time it was admitted that the latin laborers were definitely harder workers.

    The latins actually DO tend to work hard. But they will take less. For them, just getting paid (usually cash) is a treat. And that’s the problem. The demand for cheap labor is a driver behind illegal immigration.

    Read More
  11. A guaranteed annual income would make males more desirable; the combined income of husband and wife would make for a Family income. However the zeroth amendment would require that the GAI be given to anyone on earth who set foot in the US. So that’s another good thing we can’t have.

    Read More
  12. bomag says:
    @The Anti-Gnostic
    The growing obsolescence of menial labor and increasingly, human data entry and recordkeeping, is an under-remarked problem. We already divert people into way more schooling than they need, and support a lot of useless sinecures (see, again, universities). The retail interface is slowly automating, which is why everybody you deal with as a customer is generally some underpaid, overworked, low-IQ functionary. After the "name-tag jobs" disappear, what then? We will have millions of people with minimal value on the open labor market.

    We aren't going to let them (me? us?) starve. Hell, we grow enough food to throw a lot of it away. Productivity gains are gobbling up what would otherwise be manifesting as monetary inflation from all the transfer payments. This process, we are assured by the Austrian school, can only result in a massive crash and contraction of the economy back to the level supported by prior savings. But fiat money has weathered a long series of busts and come back each time. My father reminds me people were saying the same thing about the dollar when he was young.

    So what is this undiscovered country in which we find ourselves? Nobody starves to death in the West unless they are overtaken by alcoholism or drug addiction. Even the Third World is finding the resources, either native or imported, to support an unprecedented population boom.

    Has Scarcity been banished for all practical purposes? Are we now at Satiety, again, for all practical purposes? We seemingly can afford to pay young women to have a couple of children without the bother of selecting a reliable breadwinner. I'm not sure what the young men are doing but, being men, they generally find something.

    If we're at Satiety then the logical next step is Universal Basic Income. Mass democracy is not compatible with UBI.

    Mass democracy is not compatible with UBI.

    We don’t have much of a democracy now.

    Has Scarcity been banished for all practical purposes?

    Scarcity comes in other forms: more areas become no-go zones from crime, pollution, and bureaucratic rules; there is less wild area with attendant hunting and nature study; other various frictions increase: I cringe every time I have to make a phone call to any largish organization, or receive a notice from same about another layer of regulation and compliance.

    Read More
  13. carol says:

    Wow..Construction is still white here in Missoula. But we used to have a lot of mill jobs that are gone now. A guy could go to work right out of high school and marry early. Not any more.

    I see the results in my tax practice. Only the guys driving trucks or heavy equipment are making it. The rest flounder and the wife makes more money and holds things together. If they’re married at all.

    Read More
  14. JackOH says:

    Has there been any actual good to come out of the deliberate disempowerment/demoralization of menfolk? Serious, non-smart-alecky question.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    It has increased the autonomy of women and overall labor supply. Both could have been seen as moral advances by the liberal-corporate perspective, and coincides with the interest to further concentrate wealth in a top fraction by decreasing real income.

    I mean, if the arc of history is to ever increase atomization and alienation, which we can also call liberation and independence, then society has certainly managed to provide more of both.

    Truth is, I think that a relatively small percentile of women would want to return to anything close to traditional roles. They're less happy overall as compared to the past, but individually, most individuals choose for maximal autonomy. Its just that due to a bug in our wiring, autonomy isn't actually all that good for the individual or for society, but its usually highly preferred.

    Also, the cult of equality feels good.

    , @MBlanc46
    Many of the young women feel much better about themselves.
  15. @The Anti-Gnostic
    The growing obsolescence of menial labor and increasingly, human data entry and recordkeeping, is an under-remarked problem. We already divert people into way more schooling than they need, and support a lot of useless sinecures (see, again, universities). The retail interface is slowly automating, which is why everybody you deal with as a customer is generally some underpaid, overworked, low-IQ functionary. After the "name-tag jobs" disappear, what then? We will have millions of people with minimal value on the open labor market.

    We aren't going to let them (me? us?) starve. Hell, we grow enough food to throw a lot of it away. Productivity gains are gobbling up what would otherwise be manifesting as monetary inflation from all the transfer payments. This process, we are assured by the Austrian school, can only result in a massive crash and contraction of the economy back to the level supported by prior savings. But fiat money has weathered a long series of busts and come back each time. My father reminds me people were saying the same thing about the dollar when he was young.

    So what is this undiscovered country in which we find ourselves? Nobody starves to death in the West unless they are overtaken by alcoholism or drug addiction. Even the Third World is finding the resources, either native or imported, to support an unprecedented population boom.

    Has Scarcity been banished for all practical purposes? Are we now at Satiety, again, for all practical purposes? We seemingly can afford to pay young women to have a couple of children without the bother of selecting a reliable breadwinner. I'm not sure what the young men are doing but, being men, they generally find something.

    If we're at Satiety then the logical next step is Universal Basic Income. Mass democracy is not compatible with UBI.

    >We aren’t going to let them (me? us?) starve.

    Not sure how many zeroes are on the end of your bank balance, but I personally see myself more likely to be in the “us” side of that statement and I believe most normal people should assume same.

    We should not not not assume that they will not let us starve. We did slavery and they invented Twitter. They hate us and they feel totally justified in eliminating us.

    Read More
  16. MW says:
    @Arclight
    A lot is written about the total destruction of the black family and the resulting 70%+ rate of illegitimate births, and I think this paper's concept and the impact of immigration has something to do with it. In Washington, DC, the construction trades were dominated by blacks until a few decades ago, when it switched to immigrant labor. This used to come up in casual conversation in my mostly-black neighborhood - the older residents lamented the fact that you would go around the city and see latin workers at every job site when those used to be black jobs, although at the same time it was admitted that the latin laborers were definitely harder workers.

    Yup. The plight of African-Americans should have been a warning to white America, even if they didn’t care about the welfare of blacks per se. If you run the same experiment on whites (i.e. take away the economic opportunities for a huge % of their men), why would you not expect similar results?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anonymous

    The plight of African-Americans should have been a warning to white America, ...
     
    Blacks have always been somewhat of a canary in the coal mine for the rest of society. I used to hear it said that during an economic downturn blacks get hit first with rising unemployment.

    If you run the same experiment on whites (i.e. take away the economic opportunities for a huge % of their men), why would you not expect similar results?
     
    Is there any ethnic group where this would not be a problem?
    , @Anonymous Nephew
    "If you run the same experiment on whites (i.e. take away the economic opportunities for a huge % of their men), why would you not expect similar results?"

    It's not just the jobs and wages - they were low in the US and UK in the 1930s, but white communities held together. The cultural damage since the 60s has been immense and a lot of that cultural infrastructure (esp Christianity in the media/schools, the church or chapel round which many communities centred) has been removed for most people, so we'll expect things to be worse this time round.

  17. It’s a shame by 2005 concept of “affordable family formation” took so long to catch on…

    …nor for the female Americans would would marry them.

    One too many Bud Lights while blogging. Leave the drunk posting to us real drinkers (he said while taking a sip of his 3rd whisky on the rocks).

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  18. Luke Lea says:

    “the China shock in trade and the Mexico shock in immigration were similar.”

    True, and they had “synergy” — Nafta opened up Mexico to US exports of corn, which made it impossible for Mexican dirt farmers to support themselves; then Gatt following Nafta took the factories that went to Mexico (low wages) to China (lower wages).

    It is said that changing technology (aka new labor-saving technologies) is even more important than trade and immigration. So we ship the few labor-intensive jobs unaffected overseas, adding insult to injury.

    To address automation I’m surprised there isn’t more (or any) talk about the need for new statutory restrictions on the hours of labor, which is how we dealt with that problem in the past. Why not a family-friendly six-hour day (with triple pay for overtime to show we mean business)?

    Read More
    • Replies: @bomag

    To address automation I’m surprised there isn’t more (or any) talk about the need for new statutory restrictions on the hours of labor, which is how we dealt with that problem in the past. Why not a family-friendly six-hour day (with triple pay for overtime to show we mean business)?
     
    If we could pass and enforce that, we could pass and enforce many other things, such as immigration restriction. Such things appear to be too difficult in this day and age.

    Automation and labor are still competing: US dairies are labor intensive; European dairies are almost totally automated. The arc appears to favor automation in the long run, and divvying up what's left of the need for labor won't buy much. The future looks to be few real jobs; make-work; and welfare.
    , @Bill Jones
    "To address automation I’m surprised there isn’t more (or any) talk about the need for new statutory restrictions on the hours of labor, which is how we dealt with that problem in the past. Why not a family-friendly six-hour day (with triple pay for overtime to show we mean business)?"

    So your response to automation is to increase the cost of labor and thus make more automation attractive?

    Do cognitive dissonance much?
    , @Negrolphin Pool
    If you artificially restrict the labor market, wouldn't that actually contribute to increased adoption of automation through upward pressure on wages? Likewise, if you tripled overtime on a mass scale, wouldn't that cause tons of inflationary pressure?
    , @Rod1963

    To address automation I’m surprised there isn’t more (or any) talk about the need for new statutory restrictions on the hours of labor, which is how we dealt with that problem in the past. Why not a family-friendly six-hour day (with triple pay for overtime to show we mean business)?
     
    Makes a lot of sense, as businesses automate what constitutes a full workday and work weel needs to change. I don't believe in welfare because it's so socially and spiritually corrosive as to be problem not a solution to automation. One only has to look what happened to the British working class when Thatcher privatized most of English industries - it wrecked their working class and turned them into boozers and druggies. Free trade and off-shoring did as much to ours.

    I rather see the folks working a six hour workday instead. It's better for them emotionally and family wise. Putting them on the dole just tells them they are useless and worthless. Then people wonder the men and women in this class don't marry and have families. Take a man's self-worth and pride away from him and you destroy him.

    But business won't do it. They'll just kick workers to the curb and expect government to pick up the tab and then give these workers money so they in turn can buy crap from the company that just fired them.

    I think there will come a time where government either limits automation or watch it destroy society and the state in the process.
    , @David Davenport
    To address automation I’m surprised there isn’t more (or any) talk about the need for new statutory restrictions on the hours of labor, which is how we dealt with that problem in the past. Why not a family-friendly six-hour day (with triple pay for overtime to show we mean business)?

    Are your thirty (30) hour per week employees going to get full healthcare coverage?

    Are they supposed to receive the same weekly pay as the firm's erstwhile forty hour per week employees?
  19. Put up billboards in certain communities and at schools where unwed motherhood approaches 100%…” If you want to be poor then have a child without being married. If you want grinding poverty, then have two or more children without being married.” Problem is, when they look around that’s all they see and no one is starving or buck naked. They may be lacking a working male but they have all the sperm donors they need.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Almost Missouri
    Actually, they have the biggest donor male of all: Uncle Sam and his fabulous Welfare Machine.

    Unwed motherhood really is a viable and attractive(!) career option for underclass young (and not-so-young) women. Many get into it through inertia but many also seek it out; and it's not hard to find.

    The NBER study only shows half the equation: the diminution of provision for children from working males. The other side of the equation is that the Federal government and its vast bureaucracy of state and local accomplices has been ratcheting up the provision for children without working males for most of a century. If it were only that male wages were diminishing, the corresponding female fecundity would diminish until it reached the equilibrium at which the males could support it. But the government and larger culture has stepped in to subsidize an artificially high level of female fecundity and has done it most amongst the females one would least like to have reproducing.

    The rotten fruit of this insane policy are on display at your local ghetto.
  20. Brutusale says:
    @The Anti-Gnostic
    The growing obsolescence of menial labor and increasingly, human data entry and recordkeeping, is an under-remarked problem. We already divert people into way more schooling than they need, and support a lot of useless sinecures (see, again, universities). The retail interface is slowly automating, which is why everybody you deal with as a customer is generally some underpaid, overworked, low-IQ functionary. After the "name-tag jobs" disappear, what then? We will have millions of people with minimal value on the open labor market.

    We aren't going to let them (me? us?) starve. Hell, we grow enough food to throw a lot of it away. Productivity gains are gobbling up what would otherwise be manifesting as monetary inflation from all the transfer payments. This process, we are assured by the Austrian school, can only result in a massive crash and contraction of the economy back to the level supported by prior savings. But fiat money has weathered a long series of busts and come back each time. My father reminds me people were saying the same thing about the dollar when he was young.

    So what is this undiscovered country in which we find ourselves? Nobody starves to death in the West unless they are overtaken by alcoholism or drug addiction. Even the Third World is finding the resources, either native or imported, to support an unprecedented population boom.

    Has Scarcity been banished for all practical purposes? Are we now at Satiety, again, for all practical purposes? We seemingly can afford to pay young women to have a couple of children without the bother of selecting a reliable breadwinner. I'm not sure what the young men are doing but, being men, they generally find something.

    If we're at Satiety then the logical next step is Universal Basic Income. Mass democracy is not compatible with UBI.

    What, those “service” industry employees don’t go on to become famous hosts of cable-access television shows?

    Read More
  21. The missing word is immigration. The missing sentence is: we need more immigration, especially illegal immigration.

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  22. Marina says:

    It seems like a low hanging regulatory fix would be to roll back the zillion laws that prop up women in the workforce. Men used to do lots of these pink collar jobs, and could do them again, which would improve their appeal as potential husbands. You could also try tinkering with the tax code to increase the tax rate on the second induce brought into a family, though that might discourage marriage entirely.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Dr. X

    It seems like a low hanging regulatory fix would be to roll back the zillion laws that prop up women in the workforce. Men used to do lots of these pink collar jobs, and could do them again, which would improve their appeal as potential husbands.
     
    An excellent and important point. Not only have male-dominated manufacturing jobs been destroyed by offshoring, immigration, and automation, but remaining jobs tend to be female dominated, either because of intense affirmative action hiring that prioritizes females, or because contemporary indoor workplaces create feminized social environments where female social skills are more important than actual job skills.

    Nobody's going to hire a laid-off diesel mechanic who's used to reeling it out and taking a whiz behind a broken-down bulldozer on a construction site to be a medical records tech or a dental hygienist in an office of 10 women.
  23. In earlier times the value of population to a state was for one of two purposes (1) the production of taxable goods (and taxable general commerce as a multiplier of basic production), and (2) bearing arms.

    Today, according to Modern Monetary Theory, the value of the people is to spend money which the state issues and then taxes. Modern Monetary Theorists seem to have never heard of entropy.

    In the not-too-distant future the “state” is going to realize that non-productive people are a drag.

    Things will get interesting then.

    Read More
    • Replies: @ben tillman

    Today, according to Modern Monetary Theory, the value of the people is to spend money which the state issues and then taxes. Modern Monetary Theorists seem to have never heard of entropy.

    In the not-too-distant future the “state” is going to realize that non-productive people are a drag.
     
    Yeah, I still don't get it. How does a large population consuming lots of stuff make the rentier class wealthier than an economy in which the population is smaller and the rentiers get 100% instead of 10% of the value of the same amount of wasted petroleum?
  24. @The Anti-Gnostic
    The growing obsolescence of menial labor and increasingly, human data entry and recordkeeping, is an under-remarked problem. We already divert people into way more schooling than they need, and support a lot of useless sinecures (see, again, universities). The retail interface is slowly automating, which is why everybody you deal with as a customer is generally some underpaid, overworked, low-IQ functionary. After the "name-tag jobs" disappear, what then? We will have millions of people with minimal value on the open labor market.

    We aren't going to let them (me? us?) starve. Hell, we grow enough food to throw a lot of it away. Productivity gains are gobbling up what would otherwise be manifesting as monetary inflation from all the transfer payments. This process, we are assured by the Austrian school, can only result in a massive crash and contraction of the economy back to the level supported by prior savings. But fiat money has weathered a long series of busts and come back each time. My father reminds me people were saying the same thing about the dollar when he was young.

    So what is this undiscovered country in which we find ourselves? Nobody starves to death in the West unless they are overtaken by alcoholism or drug addiction. Even the Third World is finding the resources, either native or imported, to support an unprecedented population boom.

    Has Scarcity been banished for all practical purposes? Are we now at Satiety, again, for all practical purposes? We seemingly can afford to pay young women to have a couple of children without the bother of selecting a reliable breadwinner. I'm not sure what the young men are doing but, being men, they generally find something.

    If we're at Satiety then the logical next step is Universal Basic Income. Mass democracy is not compatible with UBI.

    Automation is never going to happen and globalism is already on its way out. We are in the mother of all financial bubbles, with $63 trillion in debt currently on the books and untold trillions more of structural spending baked into the cake for the foreseeable future. The enormous Baby Boom cohort is rapidly approaching retirement and senescence, and they have saved nothing. All over the world birthrates are falling, and every developed nation is now sub-replacement—even the USA, even with immigration being what it is.

    In a word, this whole concept of satiety is nonsense. It always was, you know. Men are still mortal, men are still fallible, and nobody has repealed the laws of physics. Satiety is not real; it is the imaginary and desired condition of late cosmopolitan hoi polloi who live only for bread and circuses and insist upon peace at all costs. They grasp at it because they have lost the will to live, and in so grasping they die.

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  25. @The Anti-Gnostic
    The growing obsolescence of menial labor and increasingly, human data entry and recordkeeping, is an under-remarked problem. We already divert people into way more schooling than they need, and support a lot of useless sinecures (see, again, universities). The retail interface is slowly automating, which is why everybody you deal with as a customer is generally some underpaid, overworked, low-IQ functionary. After the "name-tag jobs" disappear, what then? We will have millions of people with minimal value on the open labor market.

    We aren't going to let them (me? us?) starve. Hell, we grow enough food to throw a lot of it away. Productivity gains are gobbling up what would otherwise be manifesting as monetary inflation from all the transfer payments. This process, we are assured by the Austrian school, can only result in a massive crash and contraction of the economy back to the level supported by prior savings. But fiat money has weathered a long series of busts and come back each time. My father reminds me people were saying the same thing about the dollar when he was young.

    So what is this undiscovered country in which we find ourselves? Nobody starves to death in the West unless they are overtaken by alcoholism or drug addiction. Even the Third World is finding the resources, either native or imported, to support an unprecedented population boom.

    Has Scarcity been banished for all practical purposes? Are we now at Satiety, again, for all practical purposes? We seemingly can afford to pay young women to have a couple of children without the bother of selecting a reliable breadwinner. I'm not sure what the young men are doing but, being men, they generally find something.

    If we're at Satiety then the logical next step is Universal Basic Income. Mass democracy is not compatible with UBI.

    I’m kind of waiting for Whiskeys post on this one, but if men aren’t attractive marriage partners for reasons of economic security, women will be free to indulge their hypergamous tendencies. Lots of young men will have no constructive sexual outlets. I see two possibilities: (1) formation of gangs that simply enslave a number of women for sexual release; or (2) pervasive withdrawal into video games and virtual reality. If technology invents a sexbot that can basically fulfill 90-95% of men’s sexual needs, then I think it’s game over. Female economic independence is one of Chateau Heartiste’s Six Sirenes of the Sexual Apocalypse and it looks like this one is singing louder and louder.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Corvinus
    "I’m kind of waiting for Whiskeys post on this one, but if men aren’t attractive marriage partners for reasons of economic security, women will be free to indulge their hypergamous tendencies."

    So men ought to step up here.

    "Lots of young men will have no constructive sexual outlets."

    Today's young men have a number of "constructive sexual outlets". They are dating. They are mating. You underestimate the prowling nature of the modern man.

    "I see two possibilities: (1) formation of gangs that simply enslave a number of women for sexual release; or (2) pervasive withdrawal into video games and virtual reality. If technology invents a sexbot that can basically fulfill 90-95% of men’s sexual needs, then I think it’s game over."

    Game over only for those men who lack any self-control or self-esteem.

    "Female economic independence is one of Chateau Heartiste’s Six Sirenes of the Sexual Apocalypse and it looks like this one is singing louder and louder."

    I wouldn't rely on a man who himself is not married and has no white children.
    , @Njguy73

    Lots of young men will have no constructive sexual outlets. I see two possibilities: (1) formation of gangs that simply enslave a number of women for sexual release; or (2) pervasive withdrawal into video games and virtual reality.
     
    (3) Support the growth of secular monastical orders where young men with no constructive sexual outlets can be of service to their communities. Some might grow food, others may produce some non-food goods. Some may be entirely self-supporting, some may be supported by a community, like a Catholic monastery or convent was supported by a parish.
  26. Transgender Boy Wins Controversial State Title

    https://www.yahoo.com/news/transgender-boy-wins-controversial-girls-state-title-005123777.html

    This brave young boy used superior womanhood to defeat these women at their own game. And testosterone. Actually, it was probably just the testosterone.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Barnard
    It is a biological girl who is taking testosterone. My first thought on reading this was, what kind of degenerate society encourages teenage girls to take up wrestling? The only thing I could find looking out information about how it started is that girl's wrestling is a desperation attempt to save boy's wrestling from Title IX cuts. There were over 11,000 girls competing in high school during the 2014-2015 school year.
    , @Robert Hume
    Isn't the obvious solution to this particular case to outlaw performance-enhancing drugs to participants regardless of the reason for taking them?
  27. @The Anti-Gnostic
    The growing obsolescence of menial labor and increasingly, human data entry and recordkeeping, is an under-remarked problem. We already divert people into way more schooling than they need, and support a lot of useless sinecures (see, again, universities). The retail interface is slowly automating, which is why everybody you deal with as a customer is generally some underpaid, overworked, low-IQ functionary. After the "name-tag jobs" disappear, what then? We will have millions of people with minimal value on the open labor market.

    We aren't going to let them (me? us?) starve. Hell, we grow enough food to throw a lot of it away. Productivity gains are gobbling up what would otherwise be manifesting as monetary inflation from all the transfer payments. This process, we are assured by the Austrian school, can only result in a massive crash and contraction of the economy back to the level supported by prior savings. But fiat money has weathered a long series of busts and come back each time. My father reminds me people were saying the same thing about the dollar when he was young.

    So what is this undiscovered country in which we find ourselves? Nobody starves to death in the West unless they are overtaken by alcoholism or drug addiction. Even the Third World is finding the resources, either native or imported, to support an unprecedented population boom.

    Has Scarcity been banished for all practical purposes? Are we now at Satiety, again, for all practical purposes? We seemingly can afford to pay young women to have a couple of children without the bother of selecting a reliable breadwinner. I'm not sure what the young men are doing but, being men, they generally find something.

    If we're at Satiety then the logical next step is Universal Basic Income. Mass democracy is not compatible with UBI.

    My father reminds me people were saying the same thing about the dollar when he was young.

    There is a great deal of ruin in a nation. – Adam Smith

    Patience.

    Read More
  28. Immigration (which I deplore) doesn’t help the situation. But isn’t the loss of higher-tiered employment due to changes in the mode of manufacturing?

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  29. Isteve, OT, but make a post about this: https://twitter.com/SoCal4Trump/status/835002680036601856

    Dude can’t back off from his “you are the gender you want” even when faced with the ridiculous implications (but maybe the dissolution of society is the goal)

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  30. @The Anti-Gnostic
    The growing obsolescence of menial labor and increasingly, human data entry and recordkeeping, is an under-remarked problem. We already divert people into way more schooling than they need, and support a lot of useless sinecures (see, again, universities). The retail interface is slowly automating, which is why everybody you deal with as a customer is generally some underpaid, overworked, low-IQ functionary. After the "name-tag jobs" disappear, what then? We will have millions of people with minimal value on the open labor market.

    We aren't going to let them (me? us?) starve. Hell, we grow enough food to throw a lot of it away. Productivity gains are gobbling up what would otherwise be manifesting as monetary inflation from all the transfer payments. This process, we are assured by the Austrian school, can only result in a massive crash and contraction of the economy back to the level supported by prior savings. But fiat money has weathered a long series of busts and come back each time. My father reminds me people were saying the same thing about the dollar when he was young.

    So what is this undiscovered country in which we find ourselves? Nobody starves to death in the West unless they are overtaken by alcoholism or drug addiction. Even the Third World is finding the resources, either native or imported, to support an unprecedented population boom.

    Has Scarcity been banished for all practical purposes? Are we now at Satiety, again, for all practical purposes? We seemingly can afford to pay young women to have a couple of children without the bother of selecting a reliable breadwinner. I'm not sure what the young men are doing but, being men, they generally find something.

    If we're at Satiety then the logical next step is Universal Basic Income. Mass democracy is not compatible with UBI.

    Nobody starves to death in the West unless they are overtaken by alcoholism or drug addiction.

    Listening to the radio, I frequently hear PSAs about the “food insecurity” that grips America, the people who aren’t sure where their next meal is coming from, and a new charity that sends underprivileged schoolchildren home with a backpack of meals so they can make it through the weekend. And yet it’s unusual to see a skinny person in this country, especially a black one. The current argument is that you can have food insecurity and be morbidly obese at the same time.

    Read More
    • Replies: @The Anti-Gnostic
    I hear these arguments too. What is "food insecurity?" It's 9 p.m. and the Food Bank doesn't open until tomorrow? There's no Kroger in my neighborhood because all the bullet-proof glass and comp claims from brutalized employees would render the location unprofitable?

    St. Michael the Brown, a 250-pound bruiser, was probably "food insecure."
    , @kihowi
    It's absolute nonsense. You can eat healthily on $3 dollars a day. I know, I did it. But, it requires you to make an effort.

    There are no starving fat people. The money required to become fat is many many times more than what it costs to live healthily.

    I think it's one of those ideas that's popular because it's so obviously absurd that people mistake if for sophisticated.
    , @Light Roast
    Maybe the stress of food insecurity, and stress of poverty generally, causes a person to eat as much as possible now, because of a subconscious fear of not having enough food soon. And then tomorrow comes, there's still plenty of food, but the stress is still there, so you eat as much as you can now, because of the fear of not having enough food soon. And then tomorrow comes, there's still plenty of food...etc. And thus you can get really obese while being poor and "food insecure".
    , @dc.sunsets
    Absent in those "food insecurity" commercials are any references to parents.

    Hmm. I wonder why?
    , @Buffalo Joe
    Harry, They want you to feel guilty because your family is fed, as if you took the food out of some waif's mouth to feed your kids. Years ago I did promotional work for a food broker and we used "Cause Marketing", that is, making our products known by charitable work in the community. The company would make 10 ton donations of product to food banks in various cities and I would arrange for press coverage. The food banks looked like food distribution warehouses for Krogers or Giant Eagle. Chicago's food depository cost $35million, if I remember correctly. There is a farm attraction near here and I love to play farmer. They have tours for school kids. This fall, three Buffalo Public School buses rolled up, full size buses, and fewer than twenty kids got off the 3 buses. There were however, more than 60 sack lunches unloaded for the kids, their three teachers and three aides. The uneaten lunches were left to be discarded.
  31. @The Anti-Gnostic
    The growing obsolescence of menial labor and increasingly, human data entry and recordkeeping, is an under-remarked problem. We already divert people into way more schooling than they need, and support a lot of useless sinecures (see, again, universities). The retail interface is slowly automating, which is why everybody you deal with as a customer is generally some underpaid, overworked, low-IQ functionary. After the "name-tag jobs" disappear, what then? We will have millions of people with minimal value on the open labor market.

    We aren't going to let them (me? us?) starve. Hell, we grow enough food to throw a lot of it away. Productivity gains are gobbling up what would otherwise be manifesting as monetary inflation from all the transfer payments. This process, we are assured by the Austrian school, can only result in a massive crash and contraction of the economy back to the level supported by prior savings. But fiat money has weathered a long series of busts and come back each time. My father reminds me people were saying the same thing about the dollar when he was young.

    So what is this undiscovered country in which we find ourselves? Nobody starves to death in the West unless they are overtaken by alcoholism or drug addiction. Even the Third World is finding the resources, either native or imported, to support an unprecedented population boom.

    Has Scarcity been banished for all practical purposes? Are we now at Satiety, again, for all practical purposes? We seemingly can afford to pay young women to have a couple of children without the bother of selecting a reliable breadwinner. I'm not sure what the young men are doing but, being men, they generally find something.

    If we're at Satiety then the logical next step is Universal Basic Income. Mass democracy is not compatible with UBI.

    As I’ve been saying for years, production and distribution were inextricably linked for a couple of centuries: As a rule, the more you produced the more was distributed to you, and pretty much everybody could contribute in production. we have largely solved the problem of production and it requires ever-decreasing numbers of people.

    Clearly some new rule of distribution is coming, the bad news is, it is likely to be decided by the 1%.

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  32. kihowi says:

    The value of men has been falling since the state took over their responsibilities. You only need a handful of men to do the things you absolutely need them for, like impregnating women. But as for the rest, what good are we?

    An awful lot, if not all of the 20th century can be explained by this idea and it’s still ongoing. If women didn’t have a guarantee of safety, income and compliments from the state, do you think they’d really want their husbands job to disappear?

    Science fiction idea: sterilize all men and freeze only two of their sperm. Reverse 150 years of feminism in one stroke.

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  33. bomag says:
    @Luke Lea

    "the China shock in trade and the Mexico shock in immigration were similar."
     
    True, and they had "synergy" -- Nafta opened up Mexico to US exports of corn, which made it impossible for Mexican dirt farmers to support themselves; then Gatt following Nafta took the factories that went to Mexico (low wages) to China (lower wages).

    It is said that changing technology (aka new labor-saving technologies) is even more important than trade and immigration. So we ship the few labor-intensive jobs unaffected overseas, adding insult to injury.

    To address automation I'm surprised there isn't more (or any) talk about the need for new statutory restrictions on the hours of labor, which is how we dealt with that problem in the past. Why not a family-friendly six-hour day (with triple pay for overtime to show we mean business)?

    To address automation I’m surprised there isn’t more (or any) talk about the need for new statutory restrictions on the hours of labor, which is how we dealt with that problem in the past. Why not a family-friendly six-hour day (with triple pay for overtime to show we mean business)?

    If we could pass and enforce that, we could pass and enforce many other things, such as immigration restriction. Such things appear to be too difficult in this day and age.

    Automation and labor are still competing: US dairies are labor intensive; European dairies are almost totally automated. The arc appears to favor automation in the long run, and divvying up what’s left of the need for labor won’t buy much. The future looks to be few real jobs; make-work; and welfare.

    Read More
    • Replies: @dc.sunsets
    I find it funny that "make work" or "spread the work" schemes become more popular right when a roll-over into economic contraction looms.

    Don't get me wrong---I loved working part-time, and I think a fixation on the 40-hr (or more) work week is only great for those who really like what they do for a living (not many right now.)

    I just find the entire discussion rather funny, not unlike the notion that prices of life's essentials should be controlled by legislative fiat.
  34. @Harry Baldwin
    Nobody starves to death in the West unless they are overtaken by alcoholism or drug addiction.

    Listening to the radio, I frequently hear PSAs about the "food insecurity" that grips America, the people who aren't sure where their next meal is coming from, and a new charity that sends underprivileged schoolchildren home with a backpack of meals so they can make it through the weekend. And yet it's unusual to see a skinny person in this country, especially a black one. The current argument is that you can have food insecurity and be morbidly obese at the same time.

    I hear these arguments too. What is “food insecurity?” It’s 9 p.m. and the Food Bank doesn’t open until tomorrow? There’s no Kroger in my neighborhood because all the bullet-proof glass and comp claims from brutalized employees would render the location unprofitable?

    St. Michael the Brown, a 250-pound bruiser, was probably “food insecure.”

    Read More
    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    I worked with a black community activist who mentioned that unfortunately, the poor waste a large amount of their cash on addictions such as alcohol and liquor. This probably contributes to the food insecurity. I think we don't quite grasp the sheer amount of hopelessness that pervades such communities, but at the same time, the solution is almost certainly not more gimmedats.

    The idea of church as the center was probably the best thing for black communities, and that seems to have unfortunately become a thing of the past.
    , @Jim Don Bob
    There was an ad campaign here a while ago that said 1/4 of all children go to bed hungry complete with heart-rending picture. Turns out the methodology was to ask 10 year old boys at 9pm if they wanted something to eat.

    There are a lot of furriners in my parts and not many of them look under nourished, especially the 5 foot women.
    , @Barnard
    Here is the USDA's definition of food insecurity:

    Food insecurity—the condition assessed in the food security survey and represented in USDA food security reports—is a household-level economic and social condition of limited or uncertain access to adequate food.
     
    https://www.ers.usda.gov/topics/food-nutrition-assistance/food-security-in-the-us/definitions-of-food-security.aspx

    They refuse to factor in the personal habits of the people they label "food insecure." Even the bureaucrats had to realize you cannot credibly claim an obese person is going hungry, so they came up with another term to justify their employment. You have to love the graph they include, only 40% of the people they label "very low food security" even lost weight. "Ate less than they felt they should" was over 90%, I'm surprised it wasn't 100%.

    I have a friend who managed a C-Store near a lower income neighborhood. He had to change when his truck delivered because his store was so busy the day food stamp EBT cards were reloaded each month. There was a grocery store about a mile away from his store. He also had an ATM machine that did brisk business even there were something like eight bank branches within walking distance. The left doesn't want low income people to have agency in their lives.
    , @Anonymouse
    The corpse of St. Michael the Brown, the shoplifter of cigars who wrestled with the cop and was shot dead, weighed 293 lbs according to the police. Cop said it was like wrestling with Hulk Hogan.

    Cop was acquited but was forced to resign. For a while he and his family were in hiding from SJW vigilantes.

  35. @The Anti-Gnostic
    The growing obsolescence of menial labor and increasingly, human data entry and recordkeeping, is an under-remarked problem. We already divert people into way more schooling than they need, and support a lot of useless sinecures (see, again, universities). The retail interface is slowly automating, which is why everybody you deal with as a customer is generally some underpaid, overworked, low-IQ functionary. After the "name-tag jobs" disappear, what then? We will have millions of people with minimal value on the open labor market.

    We aren't going to let them (me? us?) starve. Hell, we grow enough food to throw a lot of it away. Productivity gains are gobbling up what would otherwise be manifesting as monetary inflation from all the transfer payments. This process, we are assured by the Austrian school, can only result in a massive crash and contraction of the economy back to the level supported by prior savings. But fiat money has weathered a long series of busts and come back each time. My father reminds me people were saying the same thing about the dollar when he was young.

    So what is this undiscovered country in which we find ourselves? Nobody starves to death in the West unless they are overtaken by alcoholism or drug addiction. Even the Third World is finding the resources, either native or imported, to support an unprecedented population boom.

    Has Scarcity been banished for all practical purposes? Are we now at Satiety, again, for all practical purposes? We seemingly can afford to pay young women to have a couple of children without the bother of selecting a reliable breadwinner. I'm not sure what the young men are doing but, being men, they generally find something.

    If we're at Satiety then the logical next step is Universal Basic Income. Mass democracy is not compatible with UBI.

    After seeing the effects of welfare states, I’ve reversed my original position and become very doubtful about Universal Basic Income. In Finland, even without the corrosive effects of immigration, the perpetual welfare state created a very morbid economy; individuals often have no aspiration or struggle, collecting a welfare check but becoming uncertain on how gain status.

    Without the economic reasoning, women often become disinterested in relationships and certainly seem to avoid having children; they look upon the women of the past as oppressed housewives, but neither can they get a high-powered career as in the US, since everything is so regulated and there’s no growth.

    Men don’t do any better, and there’s an overall sense of depression. Wealthier men tend not to start businesses locally, due to the high tax load for the welfare state, and establish businesses in Eastern Europe or other less regulated countries – this further contributes to local joblessness. They also seem to avoid local women, marrying or having mistresses from Eastern Europe or further off in Asia.

    About the only thing that keeps winning is endless credentialism: Finland is the most overeducated society on Earth, largely because if someone can’t get a job, she goes back and gets yet another degree. Also, because you need a degree even to be a barista.

    Satiety leads not to production, but to something like mental obesity. Everything grinds down to a stagnant halt; there’s something about the shock of immigration that is actually positive, because its something for people to actually feel passion to fight for, or against.

    Read More
    • Replies: @bomag
    Good post.

    there’s something about the shock of immigration that is actually positive, because its something for people to actually feel passion to fight for, or against.
     
    Indeed, humans seem to need a struggle for motivation. Let us find some constructive struggles that won't leave us with dysfunctional demographics.
  36. kihowi says:
    @Harry Baldwin
    Nobody starves to death in the West unless they are overtaken by alcoholism or drug addiction.

    Listening to the radio, I frequently hear PSAs about the "food insecurity" that grips America, the people who aren't sure where their next meal is coming from, and a new charity that sends underprivileged schoolchildren home with a backpack of meals so they can make it through the weekend. And yet it's unusual to see a skinny person in this country, especially a black one. The current argument is that you can have food insecurity and be morbidly obese at the same time.

    It’s absolute nonsense. You can eat healthily on $3 dollars a day. I know, I did it. But, it requires you to make an effort.

    There are no starving fat people. The money required to become fat is many many times more than what it costs to live healthily.

    I think it’s one of those ideas that’s popular because it’s so obviously absurd that people mistake if for sophisticated.

    Read More
    • Agree: Harry Baldwin
    • Replies: @Opinionator
    It’s absolute nonsense. You can eat healthily on $3 dollars a day.

    How?
  37. I frequently hear PSAs about the “food insecurity” that grips America, the people who aren’t sure where their next meal is coming from, and a new charity that sends underprivileged schoolchildren home with a backpack of meals so they can make it through the weekend.

    If the no- and low-income didn’t sell their food stamps at $0.50 on the dollar to the Pakistani, Indian, and Korean Mom & Pops, then the “hungry” would have plenty of food to make it not only through the weekend, but last the whole month.

    it’s unusual to see a skinny person in this country

    True, even vagrants appear well-fed. On the other hand, I’m 6-1 and 155 lbs soaking wet!

    Read More
  38. @The Anti-Gnostic
    I hear these arguments too. What is "food insecurity?" It's 9 p.m. and the Food Bank doesn't open until tomorrow? There's no Kroger in my neighborhood because all the bullet-proof glass and comp claims from brutalized employees would render the location unprofitable?

    St. Michael the Brown, a 250-pound bruiser, was probably "food insecure."

    I worked with a black community activist who mentioned that unfortunately, the poor waste a large amount of their cash on addictions such as alcohol and liquor. This probably contributes to the food insecurity. I think we don’t quite grasp the sheer amount of hopelessness that pervades such communities, but at the same time, the solution is almost certainly not more gimmedats.

    The idea of church as the center was probably the best thing for black communities, and that seems to have unfortunately become a thing of the past.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Jim Don Bob
    There was an article recently that said something like 20% of food stamp money was used to buy soda pop. But it will be a cold day in Hell before Coke and Pepsi are off the approved food stamp list.
    , @Negrolphin Pool
    This is what so-called payees are for, administrators, usually a brother, sister or parent who distribute the gibs to the gibsee over the course of a month so that it doesn't all get smoked by the 4th at the crack motel. But lots of people don't have payees.

    As a long string of insolvent lotto winners, ex-NFL players and pop stars from decades past amply testify, you could increase the individual per-bum gibs ration to registerable portions of the GDP and all you would get in return are good times for those selling Bentleys and crack.

    It's less about the insecurity of the food and more about the insecurity of the investment.

  39. @Harry Baldwin
    Nobody starves to death in the West unless they are overtaken by alcoholism or drug addiction.

    Listening to the radio, I frequently hear PSAs about the "food insecurity" that grips America, the people who aren't sure where their next meal is coming from, and a new charity that sends underprivileged schoolchildren home with a backpack of meals so they can make it through the weekend. And yet it's unusual to see a skinny person in this country, especially a black one. The current argument is that you can have food insecurity and be morbidly obese at the same time.

    Maybe the stress of food insecurity, and stress of poverty generally, causes a person to eat as much as possible now, because of a subconscious fear of not having enough food soon. And then tomorrow comes, there’s still plenty of food, but the stress is still there, so you eat as much as you can now, because of the fear of not having enough food soon. And then tomorrow comes, there’s still plenty of food…etc. And thus you can get really obese while being poor and “food insecure”.

    Read More
  40. @Buffalo Joe
    Put up billboards in certain communities and at schools where unwed motherhood approaches 100%..." If you want to be poor then have a child without being married. If you want grinding poverty, then have two or more children without being married." Problem is, when they look around that's all they see and no one is starving or buck naked. They may be lacking a working male but they have all the sperm donors they need.

    Actually, they have the biggest donor male of all: Uncle Sam and his fabulous Welfare Machine.

    Unwed motherhood really is a viable and attractive(!) career option for underclass young (and not-so-young) women. Many get into it through inertia but many also seek it out; and it’s not hard to find.

    The NBER study only shows half the equation: the diminution of provision for children from working males. The other side of the equation is that the Federal government and its vast bureaucracy of state and local accomplices has been ratcheting up the provision for children without working males for most of a century. If it were only that male wages were diminishing, the corresponding female fecundity would diminish until it reached the equilibrium at which the males could support it. But the government and larger culture has stepped in to subsidize an artificially high level of female fecundity and has done it most amongst the females one would least like to have reproducing.

    The rotten fruit of this insane policy are on display at your local ghetto.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Lot
    It isn't so much welfare as SSI/SSDI that is supporting the underclass. It pays twice as much as TANF (traditional welfare) and you get it for life without having to do job training and searching. Plenty of underclass areas a majority of people will be on disability, often 3 generations in one household.
    , @Buffalo Joe
    Almost Missouri, thank you for a great reply.
  41. Anon says: • Disclaimer

    “China shock in trade and the Mexico shock in immigration”

    Biggest of all, feminist shock in taking jobs from men.

    Read More
  42. Ivy says:

    Bastards.
    Sons of bitches.
    There were reasons for the above epithets in prior generations. All the rationalizing in the world does not detract from biology.

    Read More
    • Agree: The Anti-Gnostic
    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    I hear a deep belly guffaw; G. K. Chesterton is laughing at us.
  43. @The Anti-Gnostic
    I hear these arguments too. What is "food insecurity?" It's 9 p.m. and the Food Bank doesn't open until tomorrow? There's no Kroger in my neighborhood because all the bullet-proof glass and comp claims from brutalized employees would render the location unprofitable?

    St. Michael the Brown, a 250-pound bruiser, was probably "food insecure."

    There was an ad campaign here a while ago that said 1/4 of all children go to bed hungry complete with heart-rending picture. Turns out the methodology was to ask 10 year old boys at 9pm if they wanted something to eat.

    There are a lot of furriners in my parts and not many of them look under nourished, especially the 5 foot women.

    Read More
  44. Ickenham says:

    Good morning Mr. Sailer,

    You may wish to correct the typo in “It’s a shame by [sic] 2005 concept…”

    I’ve been a regular reader of your published output since before 2005, so I know it’s your 2005 concept, but some of your readers may not know that “by” ought to read “my”.

    Best wishes from Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada,

    Ickenham

    Read More
  45. @Daniel Chieh
    I worked with a black community activist who mentioned that unfortunately, the poor waste a large amount of their cash on addictions such as alcohol and liquor. This probably contributes to the food insecurity. I think we don't quite grasp the sheer amount of hopelessness that pervades such communities, but at the same time, the solution is almost certainly not more gimmedats.

    The idea of church as the center was probably the best thing for black communities, and that seems to have unfortunately become a thing of the past.

    There was an article recently that said something like 20% of food stamp money was used to buy soda pop. But it will be a cold day in Hell before Coke and Pepsi are off the approved food stamp list.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Lot
    In poor areas cases of soda purchased with food stamps are resold for cash in bulk. They are the preferred food stamp qualified item since most Americans drink soda and they have a long shelf life.
    , @Ed
    Some liberal wonks support banning food stamp soda purchases. Maine wants approval to ban soda & candy from allowable food stamp lists.


    https://twitter.com/wgme/status/832662483441561600
  46. @Luke Lea

    "the China shock in trade and the Mexico shock in immigration were similar."
     
    True, and they had "synergy" -- Nafta opened up Mexico to US exports of corn, which made it impossible for Mexican dirt farmers to support themselves; then Gatt following Nafta took the factories that went to Mexico (low wages) to China (lower wages).

    It is said that changing technology (aka new labor-saving technologies) is even more important than trade and immigration. So we ship the few labor-intensive jobs unaffected overseas, adding insult to injury.

    To address automation I'm surprised there isn't more (or any) talk about the need for new statutory restrictions on the hours of labor, which is how we dealt with that problem in the past. Why not a family-friendly six-hour day (with triple pay for overtime to show we mean business)?

    “To address automation I’m surprised there isn’t more (or any) talk about the need for new statutory restrictions on the hours of labor, which is how we dealt with that problem in the past. Why not a family-friendly six-hour day (with triple pay for overtime to show we mean business)?”

    So your response to automation is to increase the cost of labor and thus make more automation attractive?

    Do cognitive dissonance much?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Lot
    That's right. The actual working poor also would prefer to work longer than 8 hours rather than try to string together and commute between two 25-30 hour/week jobs, which is very common.

    I do favor overtime laws to reduce the power of employers, but they should not be made stronger for many reasons.
  47. scrivener3 says: • Website

    Increased productivity makes people richer not poorer (because fewer workers are needed). People do not want to work, they want what work gets them. They want something that they can trade to get things they value from other productive people.

    Many of the successful doctors in my area have non-working wives who dedicate themselves to child rearing and managing the household. Maybe we will become rich enough as a society that most women can stay home, raise children and enjoy leisure like daytime tennis matches and brunches. With a quarter of the people voluntarily leaving the workforce wages would be higher for those who do work full time.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh

    Increased productivity makes people richer not poorer (because fewer workers are needed). People do not want to work, they want what work gets them. They want something that they can trade to get things they value from other productive people.
     
    Highly disagree. Work is tied into identity, people do not merely seek leisure; otherwise we would have seen an explosion of nonworking women. While money is part of it, a large portion of it status and identity conferred from being a "productive member of society."
    , @Philip Owen
    We (advanced industrial countries) were societies where women down to at least the Skilled Working Class did stay at home. Then the banks offered mortgages based on two incomes and so disaster.
    , @Achmed E. Newman
    Scrivener, your last paragraph sounds like the world in a science-fiction story. I did not write that to sound snarky, so let me explain.

    Automation and just higher productivity in general of course make the world richer (thought of as an accumulated quantity over time), or at least wealth can be created more cheaply (thought of as a rate)*, this is true. The discussions here and elsewhere about who gets this increase in wealth and/or what governments can/should do to spread out the wealth are getting more interesting and important as we can see the world going toward automation so quickly. Most of what people have to say about ways to equalize the rewards are kind of disgusting to a libertarian. However, there doesn't seem to be a good free market way out of this because of the amount and type of people in the world and the trends thereof.

    Back to the science-fiction story, the future told by optimistic stories, in the 70's and 80's, during my enjoyment of this literature, looked more like a sparsely-populated world (along with other worlds we we might want to hang out) where we got around in flying machines, lived in our hand-picked beautiful environments far away from our fellow man until we wanted a change, worked a few hours a day at the work we loved, and worked on cool intellectual projects of all kinds with our copious spare time (due to the automation). It sounded great to me, though I never thought that much of the automation would come in my lifetime. That was wrong on my part. What was wrong on the part of the science-fiction writers however, was one big assumption about the people in this future world.

    The future people were all intelligent, and even 50 years ago, one might still rightly assume that the intelligent people would get ahead in the world and produce the bulk of the people of this bright future. Well, I should say "rightly" only if one didn't see the welfare state and the degradation of the culture coming. This assumption was way, way off. The bulk of the population of this world is not the intelligent and well-educated crowd, we all know that by now.

    Scrivener, your vision of the doctors and other professional's lives sounds good, but what about the rest of the population. The problem is that lower intelligence people will not make good use of their spare time. I don't mean just won't make productive use, I mean, basically, will be up to no good. "Idle hands are the devil's work", they say. Or, I guess they can all watch 12 hours of TV a day, eat tasty junk food and just veg-out basically ("bread and circuses"), but I can see that devolving to barely humans at some point. That is, unless the elites of that "society" encouraged in some way (additives in the junk food?) low reproduction to slowly transform society into that in the sci-fi books. Maybe that last thing is the big plan. Possibly this post is just nonsense due to an overdose of zerohedge comments.






    * Although peak oil aficionados and the like would differ on this with the valid point, and rightly so, that for real manufacturing (not creation of software and intellectual property) and mining and farming, there is no getting around the amount of energy needed for this work. Granted, productivity improvements can mean less energy is wasted in the processes involved, but there is a lower limit.
  48. @Ivy
    Bastards.
    Sons of bitches.
    There were reasons for the above epithets in prior generations. All the rationalizing in the world does not detract from biology.

    I hear a deep belly guffaw; G. K. Chesterton is laughing at us.

    Read More
  49. Melendwyr says: • Website

    I think there’s a problem with the end of the last sentence, Mr. Sailer.

    I remember there being speculation that women were most interested in provider-type men when they were ovulating, and that the Pill might be altering the preferences of women in ways they weren’t aware of. I have to wonder – to what degree do women today consciously evaluate men in terms of providing a comfortable and safe environment for children? Gold-digging obviously occurs, but that happens in both genders, and has more to do with greed than true mate selection to my mind.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    I don't think women - or men for that matter - do all that much conscious evaluating of anything, to be honest. There's decent evidence that most of our actions are more or less unconscious, with the conscious mind serving actively as a lawyer to justify it later. I remember choosing between dating a teenager with problems and a career woman; I tallied it out logically and I should have been with the latter. Obviously, logic proved pretty meaningless, as I ended up marrying the former(the only thing I concluded was in my weighed logic, "youth" was the heaviest variable).

    Women who marry for comfort and safety likely never think of it in such terms, but rather interpret it as "reduced anxiety" and "heightened sexual attraction."

    The Pill most likely is just making women more spastic overall.
    , @ben tillman

    I think there’s a problem with the end of the last sentence, Mr. Sailer.

    I remember there being speculation that women were most interested in provider-type men when they were ovulating, and that the Pill might be altering the preferences of women in ways they weren’t aware of.
     
    I believe it was the other way around.
  50. @Luke Lea

    "the China shock in trade and the Mexico shock in immigration were similar."
     
    True, and they had "synergy" -- Nafta opened up Mexico to US exports of corn, which made it impossible for Mexican dirt farmers to support themselves; then Gatt following Nafta took the factories that went to Mexico (low wages) to China (lower wages).

    It is said that changing technology (aka new labor-saving technologies) is even more important than trade and immigration. So we ship the few labor-intensive jobs unaffected overseas, adding insult to injury.

    To address automation I'm surprised there isn't more (or any) talk about the need for new statutory restrictions on the hours of labor, which is how we dealt with that problem in the past. Why not a family-friendly six-hour day (with triple pay for overtime to show we mean business)?

    If you artificially restrict the labor market, wouldn’t that actually contribute to increased adoption of automation through upward pressure on wages? Likewise, if you tripled overtime on a mass scale, wouldn’t that cause tons of inflationary pressure?

    Read More
  51. Barnard says:
    @The Anti-Gnostic
    I hear these arguments too. What is "food insecurity?" It's 9 p.m. and the Food Bank doesn't open until tomorrow? There's no Kroger in my neighborhood because all the bullet-proof glass and comp claims from brutalized employees would render the location unprofitable?

    St. Michael the Brown, a 250-pound bruiser, was probably "food insecure."

    Here is the USDA’s definition of food insecurity:

    Food insecurity—the condition assessed in the food security survey and represented in USDA food security reports—is a household-level economic and social condition of limited or uncertain access to adequate food.

    https://www.ers.usda.gov/topics/food-nutrition-assistance/food-security-in-the-us/definitions-of-food-security.aspx

    They refuse to factor in the personal habits of the people they label “food insecure.” Even the bureaucrats had to realize you cannot credibly claim an obese person is going hungry, so they came up with another term to justify their employment. You have to love the graph they include, only 40% of the people they label “very low food security” even lost weight. “Ate less than they felt they should” was over 90%, I’m surprised it wasn’t 100%.

    I have a friend who managed a C-Store near a lower income neighborhood. He had to change when his truck delivered because his store was so busy the day food stamp EBT cards were reloaded each month. There was a grocery store about a mile away from his store. He also had an ATM machine that did brisk business even there were something like eight bank branches within walking distance. The left doesn’t want low income people to have agency in their lives.

    Read More
  52. Rod1963 says:
    @Luke Lea

    "the China shock in trade and the Mexico shock in immigration were similar."
     
    True, and they had "synergy" -- Nafta opened up Mexico to US exports of corn, which made it impossible for Mexican dirt farmers to support themselves; then Gatt following Nafta took the factories that went to Mexico (low wages) to China (lower wages).

    It is said that changing technology (aka new labor-saving technologies) is even more important than trade and immigration. So we ship the few labor-intensive jobs unaffected overseas, adding insult to injury.

    To address automation I'm surprised there isn't more (or any) talk about the need for new statutory restrictions on the hours of labor, which is how we dealt with that problem in the past. Why not a family-friendly six-hour day (with triple pay for overtime to show we mean business)?

    To address automation I’m surprised there isn’t more (or any) talk about the need for new statutory restrictions on the hours of labor, which is how we dealt with that problem in the past. Why not a family-friendly six-hour day (with triple pay for overtime to show we mean business)?

    Makes a lot of sense, as businesses automate what constitutes a full workday and work weel needs to change. I don’t believe in welfare because it’s so socially and spiritually corrosive as to be problem not a solution to automation. One only has to look what happened to the British working class when Thatcher privatized most of English industries – it wrecked their working class and turned them into boozers and druggies. Free trade and off-shoring did as much to ours.

    I rather see the folks working a six hour workday instead. It’s better for them emotionally and family wise. Putting them on the dole just tells them they are useless and worthless. Then people wonder the men and women in this class don’t marry and have families. Take a man’s self-worth and pride away from him and you destroy him.

    But business won’t do it. They’ll just kick workers to the curb and expect government to pick up the tab and then give these workers money so they in turn can buy crap from the company that just fired them.

    I think there will come a time where government either limits automation or watch it destroy society and the state in the process.

    Read More
  53. @Daniel Chieh
    I worked with a black community activist who mentioned that unfortunately, the poor waste a large amount of their cash on addictions such as alcohol and liquor. This probably contributes to the food insecurity. I think we don't quite grasp the sheer amount of hopelessness that pervades such communities, but at the same time, the solution is almost certainly not more gimmedats.

    The idea of church as the center was probably the best thing for black communities, and that seems to have unfortunately become a thing of the past.

    This is what so-called payees are for, administrators, usually a brother, sister or parent who distribute the gibs to the gibsee over the course of a month so that it doesn’t all get smoked by the 4th at the crack motel. But lots of people don’t have payees.

    As a long string of insolvent lotto winners, ex-NFL players and pop stars from decades past amply testify, you could increase the individual per-bum gibs ration to registerable portions of the GDP and all you would get in return are good times for those selling Bentleys and crack.

    It’s less about the insecurity of the food and more about the insecurity of the investment.

    Read More
  54. @Arclight
    A lot is written about the total destruction of the black family and the resulting 70%+ rate of illegitimate births, and I think this paper's concept and the impact of immigration has something to do with it. In Washington, DC, the construction trades were dominated by blacks until a few decades ago, when it switched to immigrant labor. This used to come up in casual conversation in my mostly-black neighborhood - the older residents lamented the fact that you would go around the city and see latin workers at every job site when those used to be black jobs, although at the same time it was admitted that the latin laborers were definitely harder workers.

    But then those same blacks voted for Hillary over Trump. Why? I guess because Trump is supposedly racist.

    Read More
  55. @Melendwyr
    I think there's a problem with the end of the last sentence, Mr. Sailer.

    I remember there being speculation that women were most interested in provider-type men when they were ovulating, and that the Pill might be altering the preferences of women in ways they weren't aware of. I have to wonder - to what degree do women today consciously evaluate men in terms of providing a comfortable and safe environment for children? Gold-digging obviously occurs, but that happens in both genders, and has more to do with greed than true mate selection to my mind.

    I don’t think women – or men for that matter – do all that much conscious evaluating of anything, to be honest. There’s decent evidence that most of our actions are more or less unconscious, with the conscious mind serving actively as a lawyer to justify it later. I remember choosing between dating a teenager with problems and a career woman; I tallied it out logically and I should have been with the latter. Obviously, logic proved pretty meaningless, as I ended up marrying the former(the only thing I concluded was in my weighed logic, “youth” was the heaviest variable).

    Women who marry for comfort and safety likely never think of it in such terms, but rather interpret it as “reduced anxiety” and “heightened sexual attraction.”

    The Pill most likely is just making women more spastic overall.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
    Daniel, it was interesting the way you put that. It sound to me that your conscious mind, telling you to date the career woman was actually just your PC-brainwashed lobe, while your unconscious mind knew the truth of what you wanted and SHOULD HAVE WANTED in a woman. The young ones are sexually attractive for a good reason. Whatever you see, and the visuals are EVERYTHING, is nature's advertisement of that body's ability to make children. We men were made and/or evolved to have this desire, and this desire is good for the continuation of our species.

    I think you did the right thing, but this is based on not knowing "the problems" of the younger one. Your body and mind were responding as programmed by nature, and people need to get it straight in their heads that it's not nice to fool Mother Nature!
  56. @JackOH
    Has there been any actual good to come out of the deliberate disempowerment/demoralization of menfolk? Serious, non-smart-alecky question.

    It has increased the autonomy of women and overall labor supply. Both could have been seen as moral advances by the liberal-corporate perspective, and coincides with the interest to further concentrate wealth in a top fraction by decreasing real income.

    I mean, if the arc of history is to ever increase atomization and alienation, which we can also call liberation and independence, then society has certainly managed to provide more of both.

    Truth is, I think that a relatively small percentile of women would want to return to anything close to traditional roles. They’re less happy overall as compared to the past, but individually, most individuals choose for maximal autonomy. Its just that due to a bug in our wiring, autonomy isn’t actually all that good for the individual or for society, but its usually highly preferred.

    Also, the cult of equality feels good.

    Read More
    • Agree: Lot
    • Replies: @Discard
    I think a relatively small percent of men would want to return to 48 hour weeks raking slag in a foundry, but they were better off doing that than doing nothing. And we got nice metal castings out of the deal. From today's womens' work, we get useless paperwork. They could just as well do their gossiping at the supermarket or the village well, and we'd have better meals and healthier children in the bargain.
    , @Marina
    I have more autonomy as a stay at home mom than I ever did as an employee. The toddler is needy and clingy and all the rest, but crucially she's subordinate to me and she can't fire me if she's unhappy. I've had more time to read/engage in hobbies/keep my preferred hours since leaving the labor market. Also, my husband is very fond of me, so he's tolerant of slip ups in a way a boss isn't.

    It's not the lack of autonomy that makes being a SAHM hard. It's the social isolation and low status. The day to day work of most jobs suck, but if you have a white collar career, you get to dress up in nice outfits and engage in stimulating social interaction. I get treated by a lot of women like staying home with a child means I'm some kind of moron. Fix that, and staying home becomes a lot more attractive to women.
  57. @scrivener3
    Increased productivity makes people richer not poorer (because fewer workers are needed). People do not want to work, they want what work gets them. They want something that they can trade to get things they value from other productive people.

    Many of the successful doctors in my area have non-working wives who dedicate themselves to child rearing and managing the household. Maybe we will become rich enough as a society that most women can stay home, raise children and enjoy leisure like daytime tennis matches and brunches. With a quarter of the people voluntarily leaving the workforce wages would be higher for those who do work full time.

    Increased productivity makes people richer not poorer (because fewer workers are needed). People do not want to work, they want what work gets them. They want something that they can trade to get things they value from other productive people.

    Highly disagree. Work is tied into identity, people do not merely seek leisure; otherwise we would have seen an explosion of nonworking women. While money is part of it, a large portion of it status and identity conferred from being a “productive member of society.”

    Read More
    • Replies: @SPMoore8
    From what I have seen in life, most people don't know what to do with their free time. Of course, nobody wants to work hard all the time. But most people really do need to have a series of obligations to meet in order to be happy. All you have to do is look at any number of retired people. Many of them are bored out of their minds.

    We take it for granted that our education system will be designed for the "Great Middle" -- the 95-105 guys and gals. The people who are dumber than that aren't going to profit and the ones with the higher IQ's, never mind the 130+ types, are going to have to shift for themselves, because they are such a small minority.

    And yet, we have created a social system and an economic system that is skewed for the marginal people on both ends and completely ignores the Great Middle. I don't know what these people think they will get. A small minority of people cleaning toilets, and a small minority of billionaires, with a lot of machines in the middle, or what?

    I just get the feeling this is all going to blow up some day.
  58. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @MW
    Yup. The plight of African-Americans should have been a warning to white America, even if they didn't care about the welfare of blacks per se. If you run the same experiment on whites (i.e. take away the economic opportunities for a huge % of their men), why would you not expect similar results?

    The plight of African-Americans should have been a warning to white America, …

    Blacks have always been somewhat of a canary in the coal mine for the rest of society. I used to hear it said that during an economic downturn blacks get hit first with rising unemployment.

    If you run the same experiment on whites (i.e. take away the economic opportunities for a huge % of their men), why would you not expect similar results?

    Is there any ethnic group where this would not be a problem?

    Read More
  59. I did not read the abstract but one key part of this is that women & mothers have an absolute floor or minimum support that they can fall back on irrespective of whether there is a man in their life. Prior to the welfare state and when marriage was considered a lifetime contract women shared the same fate as their men so they shared alike. It is quite possible now for women to go from cradle to grace using medi-cal, section 8, and wic, etc., thereby eliminating their reliance on a man. They still need men because women by themselves are not productive enough but they can do it though the government. In effect, many women are now married to Uncle Sam. Remove those supports and you would find a major attitude adjustment on the part of women.

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  60. Discard says:
    @Daniel Chieh
    It has increased the autonomy of women and overall labor supply. Both could have been seen as moral advances by the liberal-corporate perspective, and coincides with the interest to further concentrate wealth in a top fraction by decreasing real income.

    I mean, if the arc of history is to ever increase atomization and alienation, which we can also call liberation and independence, then society has certainly managed to provide more of both.

    Truth is, I think that a relatively small percentile of women would want to return to anything close to traditional roles. They're less happy overall as compared to the past, but individually, most individuals choose for maximal autonomy. Its just that due to a bug in our wiring, autonomy isn't actually all that good for the individual or for society, but its usually highly preferred.

    Also, the cult of equality feels good.

    I think a relatively small percent of men would want to return to 48 hour weeks raking slag in a foundry, but they were better off doing that than doing nothing. And we got nice metal castings out of the deal. From today’s womens’ work, we get useless paperwork. They could just as well do their gossiping at the supermarket or the village well, and we’d have better meals and healthier children in the bargain.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Buffalo Joe
    Discard, During the years of WWII, many women held very meaningful jobs in steel mills and other heavy industry. They willing surrendered their jobs to their men at the end of the War. There was one female millwright at the Buffalo Republic Steel plant in the '60s who was a holdover from the war years. She held her own with the guys, including rigging and machinery repair. Couldn't steam clean or sandblast her back to looking feminine though.
    , @Achmed E. Newman
    Great post, Discard - I agree 100%.
    , @Old fogey
    Absolutely true, Discard, which is not a suitable "nom de Steve" for someone with such useful views.
  61. Olorin says:

    A potential contributor to both phenomena is the declining labor-market opportunities faced by males, which make them less valuable as marital partners.

    A potential contributor to both phenomena is elites’ establishment of the welfare state as a bureaucratized instrument of polygyny resulting in a sort of socialist-capitalist harem that manages to tax all men for the support of women and children outside their families/clans/gene pools.

    No, wait–that doesn’t blame working class white men or point to most “state”-subsidized mothers as creatures who follow the money. It just underscores their Falling Market Value.

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  62. @The Anti-Gnostic
    I hear these arguments too. What is "food insecurity?" It's 9 p.m. and the Food Bank doesn't open until tomorrow? There's no Kroger in my neighborhood because all the bullet-proof glass and comp claims from brutalized employees would render the location unprofitable?

    St. Michael the Brown, a 250-pound bruiser, was probably "food insecure."

    The corpse of St. Michael the Brown, the shoplifter of cigars who wrestled with the cop and was shot dead, weighed 293 lbs according to the police. Cop said it was like wrestling with Hulk Hogan.

    Cop was acquited but was forced to resign. For a while he and his family were in hiding from SJW vigilantes.

    Read More
    • Replies: @The Anti-Gnostic
    Thanks. That provides some interesting context.

    Using el cheapo online calorie calculator, to maintain that weight St. Michael had a caloric intake of 3,785 calories per day. If he wanted to lose weight (advisable) at the rate of one pound per week, he'd need to reduce that to 3,244 calories per day. His pictures seem to indicate he wasn't foregoing any calories. The only "food insecurity" he had was if Mickey D's was closed around the time he wanted his fifth Big Mac of the day.
  63. Anon says: • Disclaimer

    Culture went from Way of Life to Way of Leisure.

    Way of Life.

    This says the Main role of life is to continue. Since humans aren’t mere animals, they need to do more than reproduce. They need culture and memory. So, family life is crucial. Family isn’t just about men and women having sex and producing life. It’s about a man and a woman committing to one another to produce life and raise that life with culture, memory, and meaning.
    Family is the vessel of continuance of life and morality and culture.
    Since family is most important, we need social arrangement to ensure family life for most people. Since family needs to be sustained materially, someone has to make the money. To make money, jobs are necessary. So, jobs are necessary for family formation. Jobs serve families. Jobs exist to sustain families. Jobs revolve around the need for family. Family-centrism. Now, the facts of human nature: Men will marry a woman without a job or a lower job. Women, in contrast, will not marry a man without a job or lower job(though there are exceptions). So, if family provides the core meaning of life, then we need an economic structure that ensures that men have jobs. That way, men can have families, and women can have families. Even if men are favored over women for jobs, it doesn’t matter since both men and women will have families. Also, since the law requires that what men earn must be for the whole family, he is not earning for himself but for himself and his wife and family. What is his is also hers and his kids’.

    Way of Leisure. This says the main purpose of existence is Leisure. Even family is seen as part of leisure: marriage is for personal happiness(often based on fantasy pop culture) than a moral duty to life and family. Family is a option than an obligation. Since leisure(especially of immature kind) is the main point of life and since earning money affords leisure, jobs become the means for fun. Earnings are not seen primarily as funds for family formation but for fun and fantasy: guys making money to amass tons of videogames, women imitating Sex and City lifestyle. Since existence is seen as being all about individual fun, women want same access to jobs as men. They want money to blow on themselves with no thought of anything bigger than themselves. (But since people do want to feel righteous, they latch onto PC causes like ‘homomania’ that require no personal commitment except waving homo flags at parades.)
    Culture of family says parents have a duty to pass down their own stories, family memory, and tribal historical memory(and spiritual tradition) to their kids. Way of leisure says parents produce kids to offer to the god of mammon that tells kids to identify primarily not with parents, ancestors, and real culture but with celebrity vanity or fantasy. Or with ideology that has no bearing on reality or true morality. (Agitation about the radical audacity of getting blue hair and a nose ring while bitching endlessly about 50 genders is not real morality. It is insipid fetish of those who’ve never been instilled and instructed with real culture and true morality. I wonder about kind of parents millennials will make. Imagine Vito Corleone with a tattoo on his ass. He would have raised Michael to worship at the altar of mammon.)

    It seems the advanced West(and obsessively imitative East) have succeeded greatly in one thing by neglecting something more crucial. In attainment of material bounty and individual freedom, it achieved a lot, or even over-achieved. But in doing so, it neglected the necessary functions and ways of life and family. It’s like someone who obsesses about chess becomes good at chess while being worthless in everything else. Or someone who trains in boxing becomes good at boxing but worthless at all else. The West committed itself to thoroughly to materialism and individualism that it neglected the larger meaning and way of life. In the end, what good is material bounty and personal freedom if they have forgotten the way of life.
    The West is producing all this stuff… but not enough kids to inherit the stuff. And even the kid produced by white parents are being raised to sever themselves from family, culture, and history and instead immerse in trashy leisure or mindless PC(a kind of fantasy politics with green hair and pussy hats).

    The West once had a balance of freedom, leisure, family, and obligation. But the balance has been lost, and the most dangerous imbalance was due to the worship of leisure as the primary goal of life — addiction to momentary fun than search for permanence through family line — and the idolization of feminism that spread the notion that men and women should be treated as being alike. Actually, it’s worse than that. Not only did women take jobs from men on the basis of meritocracy, but in areas where men still dominate(due to meritocracy), there is demand that women be FAVORED to make things ‘fair’.

    If the West won’t change its ways due to PC, it will grow weak.. and then other peoples that still produce life will take over the West. That is why India and Africa are such big threats. They still produce life. Granted, they produce too much life, but as long as the dying West is willing to open its gate to make for ‘new Americans’ and ‘new Europeans’, what do Africans and Indians care?

    Read More
  64. Barnard says:
    @alaska3636
    Transgender Boy Wins Controversial State Title
    https://www.yahoo.com/news/transgender-boy-wins-controversial-girls-state-title-005123777.html

    This brave young boy used superior womanhood to defeat these women at their own game. And testosterone. Actually, it was probably just the testosterone.

    It is a biological girl who is taking testosterone. My first thought on reading this was, what kind of degenerate society encourages teenage girls to take up wrestling? The only thing I could find looking out information about how it started is that girl’s wrestling is a desperation attempt to save boy’s wrestling from Title IX cuts. There were over 11,000 girls competing in high school during the 2014-2015 school year.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Bel Riose
    "My first thought on reading this was, what kind of degenerate society encourages teenage girls to take up wrestling?"

    My thought as well. I've always thought that a woman who engages in masculine combat sports (wrestling, boxing, MMA, etc.) either (i) had a screw loose somewhere, (ii) participated in such activities not out of a healthy desire for competition but solely to be a special unique little snowflake and and feed her ego (how many thousands of "Girl Pins Boy" videos are there on YouTube?) or (ii) had a father who didn't have any sons and were pushed into the sport.

    Or all three.

    It's definitely a sign of a degenerate society though: kind of like Rome right before the collapse, when female gladiators fought in the Arena.

    , @ben tillman

    It is a biological girl who is taking testosterone. My first thought on reading this was, what kind of degenerate society encourages teenage girls to take up wrestling? The only thing I could find looking out information about how it started is that girl’s wrestling is a desperation attempt to save boy’s wrestling from Title IX cuts. There were over 11,000 girls competing in high school during the 2014-2015 school year.
     
    I'd love to see Sessions turn this around. Every bit of Title IX enforcement is 100% bullshit. And one could use the same rationale to shut down every school whose enrollment is at least 50.01% women.
  65. Dr. X says:
    @Marina
    It seems like a low hanging regulatory fix would be to roll back the zillion laws that prop up women in the workforce. Men used to do lots of these pink collar jobs, and could do them again, which would improve their appeal as potential husbands. You could also try tinkering with the tax code to increase the tax rate on the second induce brought into a family, though that might discourage marriage entirely.

    It seems like a low hanging regulatory fix would be to roll back the zillion laws that prop up women in the workforce. Men used to do lots of these pink collar jobs, and could do them again, which would improve their appeal as potential husbands.

    An excellent and important point. Not only have male-dominated manufacturing jobs been destroyed by offshoring, immigration, and automation, but remaining jobs tend to be female dominated, either because of intense affirmative action hiring that prioritizes females, or because contemporary indoor workplaces create feminized social environments where female social skills are more important than actual job skills.

    Nobody’s going to hire a laid-off diesel mechanic who’s used to reeling it out and taking a whiz behind a broken-down bulldozer on a construction site to be a medical records tech or a dental hygienist in an office of 10 women.

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  66. Corvinus says:
    @Hapalong Cassidy
    A softball across the plate for Heartiste. As employment prospects become less and less a deciding factor in the mating market, they are replaced more and more by traits such as caddishness, aloofness, ability to "game", or other even worse displays of dark triad personality types.

    “A softball across the plate for Heartiste. As employment prospects become less and less a deciding factor in the mating market, they are replaced more and more by traits such as caddishness, aloofness, ability to “game”, or other even worse displays of dark triad personality types.”

    Not necessarily. Increasing numbers of men who are jobless may become introverts and loners, preferring to keep to themselves and disengage with the general public, including women.

    And here is something Steve conveniently left out. “Although our analysis does not imply that surging import competition from China over the last two decades has been the sole or primary driver of these trends, it highlights that broader declines in the labor market for U.S. males have likely made a substantial contribution—assuming of course that these declines exert qualitatively similar causal effects on marriages, births and household structures as do trade shocks concentrated on manufacturing employment.”

    Indeed, assuming. The researchers engaged in correlational research. So while it makes perfect sense that the decline of manufacturing jobs contributes to a man’s inability to procure a wife and have children because they are other than desirable “catches”, the authors of the study also acknowledge there are other substantial factors at play here. Remember, companies automate to maximize efficiency and reduce costs. It comes as no surprise then when men who do not go to college, enter trade school, or form their own businesses these this particular group will find it more challenging to engage in “family formation”.

    Read More
    • Replies: @mukat
    Cads can service multiple women, simultaneously or serially. The buggers even seem to enjoy their high productivity. To Heartiste's point.

    (This analysis lifted from Dalrock).
  67. @alaska3636
    Transgender Boy Wins Controversial State Title
    https://www.yahoo.com/news/transgender-boy-wins-controversial-girls-state-title-005123777.html

    This brave young boy used superior womanhood to defeat these women at their own game. And testosterone. Actually, it was probably just the testosterone.

    Isn’t the obvious solution to this particular case to outlaw performance-enhancing drugs to participants regardless of the reason for taking them?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Buffalo Joe
    Robert, Bingo, in this case and any similar case, regardless of the gender, doses of testosterone is an advantage. Mark McGuire for instance.
  68. Corvinus says:
    @Diversity Heretic
    I'm kind of waiting for Whiskeys post on this one, but if men aren't attractive marriage partners for reasons of economic security, women will be free to indulge their hypergamous tendencies. Lots of young men will have no constructive sexual outlets. I see two possibilities: (1) formation of gangs that simply enslave a number of women for sexual release; or (2) pervasive withdrawal into video games and virtual reality. If technology invents a sexbot that can basically fulfill 90-95% of men's sexual needs, then I think it's game over. Female economic independence is one of Chateau Heartiste's Six Sirenes of the Sexual Apocalypse and it looks like this one is singing louder and louder.

    “I’m kind of waiting for Whiskeys post on this one, but if men aren’t attractive marriage partners for reasons of economic security, women will be free to indulge their hypergamous tendencies.”

    So men ought to step up here.

    “Lots of young men will have no constructive sexual outlets.”

    Today’s young men have a number of “constructive sexual outlets”. They are dating. They are mating. You underestimate the prowling nature of the modern man.

    “I see two possibilities: (1) formation of gangs that simply enslave a number of women for sexual release; or (2) pervasive withdrawal into video games and virtual reality. If technology invents a sexbot that can basically fulfill 90-95% of men’s sexual needs, then I think it’s game over.”

    Game over only for those men who lack any self-control or self-esteem.

    “Female economic independence is one of Chateau Heartiste’s Six Sirenes of the Sexual Apocalypse and it looks like this one is singing louder and louder.”

    I wouldn’t rely on a man who himself is not married and has no white children.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh

    Today’s young men have a number of “constructive sexual outlets”. They are dating. They are mating. You underestimate the prowling nature of the modern man.
     
    Why should we pay attention to actual numbers or reality when we can have pleasant fiction?

    The reality is that young men are alienated and denigrated in enormous numbers. I work as a mentor for many of them, so I can testify to this. Expecting everything to be wonderful because you think that society is overall swell is a lot like ignoring the consequences of pollution, because you think that factories are cool.

    There are certainly benefits associated with modernity. Its consequences and negative effects should not be ignored.

    From everyone I've worked with, the below is indeed true:

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3790614/They-don-t-like-drugs-gay-marriage-HATE-tattoos-Generation-Z-conservative-WW2.html

    People drifting increasingly to extremes is not a sign of overall societal health or happiness. I'm sure you would agree, as you keep advocating yourself as a "moderate." Its very much a sign of deep, abiding unhappiness in young men(and women) who are seeking desperately for some sort of answer.

    Well, guess what - there's a reason why this sense of unhappiness is increasing, and being willfully blind to it will not help increase the number of "moderates."

    , @dc.sunsets

    I wouldn’t rely on a man who himself is not married and has no white children.
     
    Wait a minute. What did you write?

    My head hurts; I agree with this. I'll add that the man who is employed, self-supporting, has a wife and kids and his wife quit her job to be a full-time mother (instead of farming out the raising of their most precious of all things, their kids) is the one to whom we should listen.

    He might actually have a clue.

    (Of course, I just described how my kids were raised, and I just described the two of my three kids who have their own children, so I'm admittedly biased.)
  69. @Corvinus
    "I’m kind of waiting for Whiskeys post on this one, but if men aren’t attractive marriage partners for reasons of economic security, women will be free to indulge their hypergamous tendencies."

    So men ought to step up here.

    "Lots of young men will have no constructive sexual outlets."

    Today's young men have a number of "constructive sexual outlets". They are dating. They are mating. You underestimate the prowling nature of the modern man.

    "I see two possibilities: (1) formation of gangs that simply enslave a number of women for sexual release; or (2) pervasive withdrawal into video games and virtual reality. If technology invents a sexbot that can basically fulfill 90-95% of men’s sexual needs, then I think it’s game over."

    Game over only for those men who lack any self-control or self-esteem.

    "Female economic independence is one of Chateau Heartiste’s Six Sirenes of the Sexual Apocalypse and it looks like this one is singing louder and louder."

    I wouldn't rely on a man who himself is not married and has no white children.

    Today’s young men have a number of “constructive sexual outlets”. They are dating. They are mating. You underestimate the prowling nature of the modern man.

    Why should we pay attention to actual numbers or reality when we can have pleasant fiction?

    The reality is that young men are alienated and denigrated in enormous numbers. I work as a mentor for many of them, so I can testify to this. Expecting everything to be wonderful because you think that society is overall swell is a lot like ignoring the consequences of pollution, because you think that factories are cool.

    There are certainly benefits associated with modernity. Its consequences and negative effects should not be ignored.

    From everyone I’ve worked with, the below is indeed true:

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3790614/They-don-t-like-drugs-gay-marriage-HATE-tattoos-Generation-Z-conservative-WW2.html

    People drifting increasingly to extremes is not a sign of overall societal health or happiness. I’m sure you would agree, as you keep advocating yourself as a “moderate.” Its very much a sign of deep, abiding unhappiness in young men(and women) who are seeking desperately for some sort of answer.

    Well, guess what – there’s a reason why this sense of unhappiness is increasing, and being willfully blind to it will not help increase the number of “moderates.”

    Read More
    • Replies: @dc.sunsets
    Corvinus reads like a very unhappy cat lady. Toxoplasmosis, or something.

    That said, happiness is fairly simple for the vast majority of people.
    Pair-bonding
    Devotion to spouse
    Devotion to kids
    Living honorably.

    Our pop culture sewer does everything possible to discourage the above, and encourage behaviors that lead predictably to misery. Engaging in physical intimacy absent emotional intimacy (or the prospect for a lifelong partnership) is an open mistake. This is self-evident, yet our culture celebrates hedonism more than life itself.

    Only those smart enough to break free of the Hivemind are likely to be happy nowadays. I'm one of them, as is my wife, as are my kids, their spouses and their kids.

    Sucks to be everyone else.
    , @dc.sunsets
    Good luck, Daniel, in dialog with Corvinus. She never met a modern trope she wouldn't defend.

    My view is that here, near the apogee of the greatest Popular Delusion in recorded history, lots of cultural and social stuff is grossly off kilter.

    It will get back on track after a period of difficulty. In the meantime, the key is not doing what everyone else is doing. But you already know that.
    , @Bill P

    From everyone I’ve worked with, the below is indeed true:

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3790614/They-don-t-like-drugs-gay-marriage-HATE-tattoos-Generation-Z-conservative-WW2.html
     
    It's the result of the liberal baby bust. I've been expecting this to come to light soon.

    Since about 1980 conservative births have outpaced liberal ones (among whites), with the trend accelerating over the decades -- conservatives currently have about 50% more kids than liberals. People started to notice about ten years ago, and now the disparity is starting to show in kids who are almost adults.

    It's going to make for an interesting dynamic when they enter adulthood just as liberal boomers are starting to age out of dominance.
  70. @bored identity



    " ...improving women’s labor-market conditions during recent decades..."

     

    That's not only sexist, but also sounds very fakexploitative towards men:

    There is only one labour-market; and wimmin of all colors and sizes are just doing awesomely way better than men because they are also, by all means, better fitted than men in all aspects for very demanding needs of very complicated 21st century.

    (Here, I said it!
    Can I get my old job back now?
    Please....)

    Whoa, you sound like Tiny D*ck!

    Read More
  71. Marina says:
    @Daniel Chieh
    It has increased the autonomy of women and overall labor supply. Both could have been seen as moral advances by the liberal-corporate perspective, and coincides with the interest to further concentrate wealth in a top fraction by decreasing real income.

    I mean, if the arc of history is to ever increase atomization and alienation, which we can also call liberation and independence, then society has certainly managed to provide more of both.

    Truth is, I think that a relatively small percentile of women would want to return to anything close to traditional roles. They're less happy overall as compared to the past, but individually, most individuals choose for maximal autonomy. Its just that due to a bug in our wiring, autonomy isn't actually all that good for the individual or for society, but its usually highly preferred.

    Also, the cult of equality feels good.

    I have more autonomy as a stay at home mom than I ever did as an employee. The toddler is needy and clingy and all the rest, but crucially she’s subordinate to me and she can’t fire me if she’s unhappy. I’ve had more time to read/engage in hobbies/keep my preferred hours since leaving the labor market. Also, my husband is very fond of me, so he’s tolerant of slip ups in a way a boss isn’t.

    It’s not the lack of autonomy that makes being a SAHM hard. It’s the social isolation and low status. The day to day work of most jobs suck, but if you have a white collar career, you get to dress up in nice outfits and engage in stimulating social interaction. I get treated by a lot of women like staying home with a child means I’m some kind of moron. Fix that, and staying home becomes a lot more attractive to women.

    Read More
    • Replies: @27 year old
    >I get treated by a lot of women like staying home with a child means I’m some kind of moron.

    People say/do this to your face in real life? How do you respond?
    , @Buffalo Joe
    Marina, Mitt Romney's wife Ann was slammed as never having a job, even though she raised five children and Michelle Obama was praised as a symbol of working womanhood, even though she failed in her short career and was basically a well supported stay at home mom. Megaphone.
    , @Formerly CARealist
    I was a SAHM for about 12 years, now I work part-time. you need to network with other moms pretty much exclusively. Career women have no idea what's involved and are likely spending much of their earnings on the status clothing and lunches that they crave.

    In fact, you should go full mommy and have 5 kids. move to the burbs, get an SUV, have raucous play dates at your home and cook up big feasts. The other moms will hold you in awe and the career women will fade from you like a bad case of acne.
    , @Daniel Chieh
    Oh, definitely. I think that SAHM used to have an entire community, but that has been gradually lost over time. My wife has been trying to rebuild something through online communities such as Red Pill Wives in Reddit, though.
    , @Old fogey
    I am a woman and I have an unfortunate mantra: "Women are stupid." I know that I'm not supposed to think this and I know for sure that I'm not supposed to say it but it is indeed true.

    It was women themselves who turned against each other under the "feminist" creed who suddenly decided that women who were fortunate enough to be able to do so and who preferred spending their time ensuring that their husband and children were healthy and lived comfortable lives were less capable and less worthy than women who turned their babies over to strangers during the day simply for the sake of earning extra money by doing inconsequential work in offices and retail settings. They did so after their "consciousnesses" were "raised" by staring at their vaginas, being instructed in how awful their husbands were, and listening to speeches about how wonderful it would be if they were "empowered."

    I was foolish enough that when I first heard the word "feminism" I thought that these new outspoken women wanted to hail feminine characteristics - how wrong I was.
    , @ben tillman

    I get treated by a lot of women like staying home with a child means I’m some kind of moron. Fix that, and staying home becomes a lot more attractive to women.
     
    Move to Texas. The working moms envy the SAHMs and aspire to become one.
  72. Corvinus says:

    “The reality is that young men are alienated and denigrated in enormous numbers.”

    If one listens to the MGTOW crowd, or to social media, or to the manosphere, assuredly.

    “I work as a mentor for many of them, so I can testify to this.:”

    Anecdotal. And the young men I know are cleaning up both professionally and personally. If increasing numbers of males are not competing, why should those who are working hard on their careers and bodies feel any sympathy for them?

    “From everyone I’ve worked with, the below is indeed true”

    The survey targeted 14 and 15 year olds and represents a small segment of the population. Moreover, what were the political persuasion of this group? What were their socio-economic status? What is their home life like? All relevant questions here regarding the backgrounds of the respondents.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh

    If one listens to the MGTOW crowd, or to social media, or to the manosphere, assuredly.
     
    The crowd I work with is entirely separate. Perhaps you'll like to add "young Christian conservative men" to an additional slur list. Please do. It'll help push them further away from your "moderation."

    Anecdotal. And the young men I know are cleaning up both professionally and personally. If increasing numbers of males are not competing, why should those who are working hard on their careers and bodies feel any sympathy for them?
     
    It speaks incredibly of the bubble that you've managed to isolate yourself into. And no, actually, sympathy is not needed for anyone or anything. But there are obvious consequences of forgotten and underutilized males, who by the way, are certainly improving their bodies.

    But of course, you seem to have an adorable assumption that the entire group of the disaffected consists of skinny basement dwellers. A common assessment, I've found.


    The survey targeted 14 and 15 year olds and represents a small segment of the population. Moreover, what were the political persuasion of this group? What were their socio-economic status? What is their home life like? All relevant questions here regarding the backgrounds of the respondents.
     
    A favorite habit of liberals like you is to obfuscate the issue - but its meaningless. If the water is rising, asking about the phase of the moon, the fish in the lake or the growth of algae can certainly be useful, but it doesn't do anything to address the singular reality: water is rising.

    And you will be inundated.

    , @ATX Hipster
    Were you as disapproving of the manosphere when you were posting regularly at Chateau Heartiste?
  73. @Harry Baldwin
    Nobody starves to death in the West unless they are overtaken by alcoholism or drug addiction.

    Listening to the radio, I frequently hear PSAs about the "food insecurity" that grips America, the people who aren't sure where their next meal is coming from, and a new charity that sends underprivileged schoolchildren home with a backpack of meals so they can make it through the weekend. And yet it's unusual to see a skinny person in this country, especially a black one. The current argument is that you can have food insecurity and be morbidly obese at the same time.

    Absent in those “food insecurity” commercials are any references to parents.

    Hmm. I wonder why?

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  74. Lot says:
    @Jim Don Bob
    There was an article recently that said something like 20% of food stamp money was used to buy soda pop. But it will be a cold day in Hell before Coke and Pepsi are off the approved food stamp list.

    In poor areas cases of soda purchased with food stamps are resold for cash in bulk. They are the preferred food stamp qualified item since most Americans drink soda and they have a long shelf life.

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  75. @bomag

    To address automation I’m surprised there isn’t more (or any) talk about the need for new statutory restrictions on the hours of labor, which is how we dealt with that problem in the past. Why not a family-friendly six-hour day (with triple pay for overtime to show we mean business)?
     
    If we could pass and enforce that, we could pass and enforce many other things, such as immigration restriction. Such things appear to be too difficult in this day and age.

    Automation and labor are still competing: US dairies are labor intensive; European dairies are almost totally automated. The arc appears to favor automation in the long run, and divvying up what's left of the need for labor won't buy much. The future looks to be few real jobs; make-work; and welfare.

    I find it funny that “make work” or “spread the work” schemes become more popular right when a roll-over into economic contraction looms.

    Don’t get me wrong—I loved working part-time, and I think a fixation on the 40-hr (or more) work week is only great for those who really like what they do for a living (not many right now.)

    I just find the entire discussion rather funny, not unlike the notion that prices of life’s essentials should be controlled by legislative fiat.

    Read More
    • Replies: @bomag

    I just find the entire discussion rather funny, not unlike the notion that prices of life’s essentials should be controlled by legislative fiat.
     
    Much of life is make-work, and controlled by legislative fiat: innumerable corporate jobs involved with compliance; gov't jobs in the main (many that go unfilled for years); many advertising jobs are zero sum at best, negative utility in many cases; rent seeking; on and on.

    To pretend that the world marches to the drum of adding value is a naive notion.
  76. Lot says:
    @Bill Jones
    "To address automation I’m surprised there isn’t more (or any) talk about the need for new statutory restrictions on the hours of labor, which is how we dealt with that problem in the past. Why not a family-friendly six-hour day (with triple pay for overtime to show we mean business)?"

    So your response to automation is to increase the cost of labor and thus make more automation attractive?

    Do cognitive dissonance much?

    That’s right. The actual working poor also would prefer to work longer than 8 hours rather than try to string together and commute between two 25-30 hour/week jobs, which is very common.

    I do favor overtime laws to reduce the power of employers, but they should not be made stronger for many reasons.

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  77. AndrewR says:
    @Intelligent Dasein
    Automation is never going to happen and globalism is already on its way out. We are in the mother of all financial bubbles, with $63 trillion in debt currently on the books and untold trillions more of structural spending baked into the cake for the foreseeable future. The enormous Baby Boom cohort is rapidly approaching retirement and senescence, and they have saved nothing. All over the world birthrates are falling, and every developed nation is now sub-replacement---even the USA, even with immigration being what it is.

    In a word, this whole concept of satiety is nonsense. It always was, you know. Men are still mortal, men are still fallible, and nobody has repealed the laws of physics. Satiety is not real; it is the imaginary and desired condition of late cosmopolitan hoi polloi who live only for bread and circuses and insist upon peace at all costs. They grasp at it because they have lost the will to live, and in so grasping they die.

    Yikes. Someone is cranky today…

    Read More
    • Replies: @Intelligent Dasein
    Not cranky, just trying to be succinct; otherwise I could go on and on about this.

    But one of things that really does aggravate me is the recent (within the last year or so) upsurge in the popularity of the automation meme. Even Drudge and Zero Hedge have really gotten in on the act. If it's not self-driving cars and teller-less banks, it's robots and AI are going to eliminate half of all jobs by 2030.

    No, they aren't.

    The low hanging fruits of automation have already been picked. Any further attempts to automate economic activity are going to run in to a wall of diminishing returns. It amounts to setting up a Rube Goldberg contraption to perform a task that a human being can actually do cheaper and with less hassle. The one-off windfall accruing to stockholders from the elimination of a company's current workforce is actually a form of liquidation. This is predatory capitalism that strip-mines the accumulated wealth of society, leaving desolation in its wake.

    Furthermore, any dreams of an automated world are not compatible with the growing trend of economic nationalism and beggar-thy-neighbor trade policies we are witnessing. Automation requires an abundance of computers, chips, software, and programmers---all currently available on the cheap due to globalism. When the trade wars begin in earnest, tech is going to become a rare and expensive commodity that will have to be allocated sparingly. The whole idea of an army of robotic burger-flippers at McD's is going to be seen for the moronic extravagance that it is.
  78. I did some simple analyses of this issue a few months back using publicly available data: TLDR, very few people get married when women are expected to earn more than men, and the subgroups that still marry are those where men earn a lot more than women.

    https://spottedtoad.wordpress.com/2016/08/24/say-you-dont-need-no-diamond-ring/

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    • Replies: @Melendwyr
    Why buy the cow when you can get the milk for free? There will always be men willing to enter into romantic and sexual relationships without any expectation of marriage. And if children are desired, to sire them. What is the purpose of marriage in that sort of situation? Regardless of what the anti-gay-marriage types say, the point of the marriage contract isn't so much to encourage children as to ensure financial stability for women. When that's not an issue...
  79. @Daniel Chieh

    Today’s young men have a number of “constructive sexual outlets”. They are dating. They are mating. You underestimate the prowling nature of the modern man.
     
    Why should we pay attention to actual numbers or reality when we can have pleasant fiction?

    The reality is that young men are alienated and denigrated in enormous numbers. I work as a mentor for many of them, so I can testify to this. Expecting everything to be wonderful because you think that society is overall swell is a lot like ignoring the consequences of pollution, because you think that factories are cool.

    There are certainly benefits associated with modernity. Its consequences and negative effects should not be ignored.

    From everyone I've worked with, the below is indeed true:

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3790614/They-don-t-like-drugs-gay-marriage-HATE-tattoos-Generation-Z-conservative-WW2.html

    People drifting increasingly to extremes is not a sign of overall societal health or happiness. I'm sure you would agree, as you keep advocating yourself as a "moderate." Its very much a sign of deep, abiding unhappiness in young men(and women) who are seeking desperately for some sort of answer.

    Well, guess what - there's a reason why this sense of unhappiness is increasing, and being willfully blind to it will not help increase the number of "moderates."

    Corvinus reads like a very unhappy cat lady. Toxoplasmosis, or something.

    That said, happiness is fairly simple for the vast majority of people.
    Pair-bonding
    Devotion to spouse
    Devotion to kids
    Living honorably.

    Our pop culture sewer does everything possible to discourage the above, and encourage behaviors that lead predictably to misery. Engaging in physical intimacy absent emotional intimacy (or the prospect for a lifelong partnership) is an open mistake. This is self-evident, yet our culture celebrates hedonism more than life itself.

    Only those smart enough to break free of the Hivemind are likely to be happy nowadays. I’m one of them, as is my wife, as are my kids, their spouses and their kids.

    Sucks to be everyone else.

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  80. @Corvinus
    "The reality is that young men are alienated and denigrated in enormous numbers."

    If one listens to the MGTOW crowd, or to social media, or to the manosphere, assuredly.

    "I work as a mentor for many of them, so I can testify to this.:"

    Anecdotal. And the young men I know are cleaning up both professionally and personally. If increasing numbers of males are not competing, why should those who are working hard on their careers and bodies feel any sympathy for them?

    "From everyone I’ve worked with, the below is indeed true"

    The survey targeted 14 and 15 year olds and represents a small segment of the population. Moreover, what were the political persuasion of this group? What were their socio-economic status? What is their home life like? All relevant questions here regarding the backgrounds of the respondents.

    If one listens to the MGTOW crowd, or to social media, or to the manosphere, assuredly.

    The crowd I work with is entirely separate. Perhaps you’ll like to add “young Christian conservative men” to an additional slur list. Please do. It’ll help push them further away from your “moderation.”

    Anecdotal. And the young men I know are cleaning up both professionally and personally. If increasing numbers of males are not competing, why should those who are working hard on their careers and bodies feel any sympathy for them?

    It speaks incredibly of the bubble that you’ve managed to isolate yourself into. And no, actually, sympathy is not needed for anyone or anything. But there are obvious consequences of forgotten and underutilized males, who by the way, are certainly improving their bodies.

    But of course, you seem to have an adorable assumption that the entire group of the disaffected consists of skinny basement dwellers. A common assessment, I’ve found.

    The survey targeted 14 and 15 year olds and represents a small segment of the population. Moreover, what were the political persuasion of this group? What were their socio-economic status? What is their home life like? All relevant questions here regarding the backgrounds of the respondents.

    A favorite habit of liberals like you is to obfuscate the issue – but its meaningless. If the water is rising, asking about the phase of the moon, the fish in the lake or the growth of algae can certainly be useful, but it doesn’t do anything to address the singular reality: water is rising.

    And you will be inundated.

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    • Replies: @Corvinus
    "The crowd I work with is entirely separate. Perhaps you’ll like to add “young Christian conservative men” to an additional slur list. Please do. It’ll help push them further away from your “moderation.”"

    First, not all or most young Christian conservative men believe in this "women are subservient to men". Second, you best take heed to young Christian conservative women on the matter when it comes to their men endorsing Trump.

    "You failed the ultimate test life throws at politicians and religious leaders: You made a choice to protect your power at the cost of the people, at the cost of women, and the future civility of our culture. The religious people mentioned above, and others like them, have undermined their own faith and cheapened their words. Moreover, they have misrepresented the Christian faith before a watching secular world."

    http://thefederalist.com/2016/10/10/supporting-trump-conservative-men-abandon-conservative-women/

    "It speaks incredibly of the bubble that you’ve managed to isolate yourself into."

    "But there are obvious consequences of forgotten and underutilized males, who by the way, are certainly improving their bodies."

    I'll wait for the movie to come out.

    "But of course, you seem to have an adorable assumption that the entire group of the disaffected consists of skinny basement dwellers. A common assessment, I’ve found."

    I submitted a known fact that the loudest group of disaffected men to specific groups. Young Christian conservative men are NOT part of that crowd. MGTOW's and the manosphere are the ones who constantly complain about the lack of "proper" female prospects. Your disdain ought to be directed toward Heartiste, a middle aged man who is unmarried and has no white children. He promotes the "pump and dump" lifestyle that obviously opposes the values of young Christian conservative men.

    "A favorite habit of liberals like you is to obfuscate the issue – but its meaningless."

    You offered one data point based on a survey consisting of 14 and 15 year olds who lack the world view and nuance of older teens and young adults. This poll is just a wee bit more accurate.

    http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2014/09/25/the-gops-millennial-problem-runs-deep/
  81. @Daniel Chieh

    Today’s young men have a number of “constructive sexual outlets”. They are dating. They are mating. You underestimate the prowling nature of the modern man.
     
    Why should we pay attention to actual numbers or reality when we can have pleasant fiction?

    The reality is that young men are alienated and denigrated in enormous numbers. I work as a mentor for many of them, so I can testify to this. Expecting everything to be wonderful because you think that society is overall swell is a lot like ignoring the consequences of pollution, because you think that factories are cool.

    There are certainly benefits associated with modernity. Its consequences and negative effects should not be ignored.

    From everyone I've worked with, the below is indeed true:

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3790614/They-don-t-like-drugs-gay-marriage-HATE-tattoos-Generation-Z-conservative-WW2.html

    People drifting increasingly to extremes is not a sign of overall societal health or happiness. I'm sure you would agree, as you keep advocating yourself as a "moderate." Its very much a sign of deep, abiding unhappiness in young men(and women) who are seeking desperately for some sort of answer.

    Well, guess what - there's a reason why this sense of unhappiness is increasing, and being willfully blind to it will not help increase the number of "moderates."

    Good luck, Daniel, in dialog with Corvinus. She never met a modern trope she wouldn’t defend.

    My view is that here, near the apogee of the greatest Popular Delusion in recorded history, lots of cultural and social stuff is grossly off kilter.

    It will get back on track after a period of difficulty. In the meantime, the key is not doing what everyone else is doing. But you already know that.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    She still claims to be a moderate. One of the most entertaining aspects of her defense.

    Personally, I do agree that things will gradually get back to normalcy. I've had the pleasure of being part of a close-knit group before, and I realize the sheer sense of calm and harmony that can bring; its a large reason why I work with young men now to help them against the forces of atomization and help them find a certain fraternal unity.
    , @SFG
    Anyone ever prove Corvinus is female? Producing lengthy posts on an ideologically hostile site that attempt to use logical argument (whether you think Corvinus succeeds or not) seems to be more of a guy thing. His arguments almost always rely on general principle and lack the personal color you see from female posters left and right.
  82. Tiny Duck says:

    I don’t see how this is a problem

    Only the best of us should be getting married

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  83. @Corvinus
    "I’m kind of waiting for Whiskeys post on this one, but if men aren’t attractive marriage partners for reasons of economic security, women will be free to indulge their hypergamous tendencies."

    So men ought to step up here.

    "Lots of young men will have no constructive sexual outlets."

    Today's young men have a number of "constructive sexual outlets". They are dating. They are mating. You underestimate the prowling nature of the modern man.

    "I see two possibilities: (1) formation of gangs that simply enslave a number of women for sexual release; or (2) pervasive withdrawal into video games and virtual reality. If technology invents a sexbot that can basically fulfill 90-95% of men’s sexual needs, then I think it’s game over."

    Game over only for those men who lack any self-control or self-esteem.

    "Female economic independence is one of Chateau Heartiste’s Six Sirenes of the Sexual Apocalypse and it looks like this one is singing louder and louder."

    I wouldn't rely on a man who himself is not married and has no white children.

    I wouldn’t rely on a man who himself is not married and has no white children.

    Wait a minute. What did you write?

    My head hurts; I agree with this. I’ll add that the man who is employed, self-supporting, has a wife and kids and his wife quit her job to be a full-time mother (instead of farming out the raising of their most precious of all things, their kids) is the one to whom we should listen.

    He might actually have a clue.

    (Of course, I just described how my kids were raised, and I just described the two of my three kids who have their own children, so I’m admittedly biased.)

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    • Replies: @Corvinus
    "I’ll add that the man who is employed, self-supporting, has a wife and kids and his wife quit her job to be a full-time mother (instead of farming out the raising of their most precious of all things, their kids) is the one to whom we should listen."

    The one to whom we should listen to are married couples who have decided for themselves to have children and have decided for themselves if the husband and/or wife will work along the way. It's not your decision to make in the end, thank goodness.
  84. Lot says:
    @Almost Missouri
    Actually, they have the biggest donor male of all: Uncle Sam and his fabulous Welfare Machine.

    Unwed motherhood really is a viable and attractive(!) career option for underclass young (and not-so-young) women. Many get into it through inertia but many also seek it out; and it's not hard to find.

    The NBER study only shows half the equation: the diminution of provision for children from working males. The other side of the equation is that the Federal government and its vast bureaucracy of state and local accomplices has been ratcheting up the provision for children without working males for most of a century. If it were only that male wages were diminishing, the corresponding female fecundity would diminish until it reached the equilibrium at which the males could support it. But the government and larger culture has stepped in to subsidize an artificially high level of female fecundity and has done it most amongst the females one would least like to have reproducing.

    The rotten fruit of this insane policy are on display at your local ghetto.

    It isn’t so much welfare as SSI/SSDI that is supporting the underclass. It pays twice as much as TANF (traditional welfare) and you get it for life without having to do job training and searching. Plenty of underclass areas a majority of people will be on disability, often 3 generations in one household.

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  85. Lot says:

    Lion writes about disemployment and video games, updating a 2006 post.

    https://lionoftheblogosphere.wordpress.com/2017/02/27/new-york-magazine-article-on-video-games-very-similar-to-my-10-year-old-blog-post/

    The big recent study shows that young men work much less than in the early 2000s, play more video games, and report being much happier than young men did 15 years ago.

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  86. Cagey Beast says: • Website

    OT: A 70-yr old postwar German dies in the most postwar German way possible:

    German hostage beheaded by Philippine Islamists: govt
    AFP February 27, 2017

    Manila (AFP) – Islamic militants in the Philippines have beheaded a 70-year-old German hostage they were holding for ransom, Manila officials said Monday, as Berlin condemned the murder as “unscrupulous and inhumane”.
    ……
    The couple had been kidnapped and held for 52 days in Somalia in 2008 before they were freed, reportedly after a huge ransom was paid, press reports said.

    Despite his ordeal in Somalia, Kantner told AFP in 2009 that he still intended to keep sailing into perilous waters.

    https://www.yahoo.com/news/philippine-islamic-militants-kill-german-hostage-101749219.html

    Hitler would have prejudged these people simply because they happen to be Islamist pirates. Not this guy.

    Will this become a popular form of voluntary euthanasia for 68ers?

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  87. barkie says:

    The biggest factor in “the failing marriage market value of men” is the general decline of men’s ability to retain and control their earnings thanks to taxation, divorce law and redistributionary social welfare.

    Women instinctively know that their fertility is their biggest single social asset. They fanatically defend the ability to “control their bodies”. The equivalent for men is their ability to “control the rewards of their labor”, of which they have failed miserably over the past half century.

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    • Agree: Achmed E. Newman
    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
    Comment of the decade there.

    (but, that's just my opinion - what do I know, I don't even watch the Oscars)
  88. Anon says: • Disclaimer

    This gives feminists a boner. But w/o AA, PC, WK male bosses, lower standardz etc… hust how many of those paper-pushing jobs would they have?

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    • Replies: @Jim Christian

    This gives feminists a boner. But w/o AA, PC, WK male bosses, lower standardz etc… hust how many of those paper-pushing jobs would they have?
     
    And females at the head of HR, many, man-hating employers, block the path of employment to many quality men because of perceived slight, supposed sexism, probably even whether the bitch can ascertain political preference, whether the man is a Christian. I'm sure they have their tells, but when companies are then wanting for quality, look to the female-headed HR department. Until women became head of HR, Resumes just had to be a resume. Once women were the sole arbiters, a resume had to have "Pop" so as not to bore the HR rep into dropping the resume in the trash the first 10 seconds. And no one else in the company gets a look at that candidate because a nitwit dumped the resume. Because these women are frequently low-quality (even if "educated") hires themselves, Aff-Action hires, HR was a good place to stash them out of sight, you hire them to hire for you at your peril. How a chick with a 4-Year in "communications" becomes the "decider" on engineers, techs and so on mystifies me.

    Look at the female headed businesses. Busted out from Yahoo to HP, that nitwit at Facebook, another at Twitter, to Theranos, many, many of them. Corporate leadership via feminist goals, not profitable. The US Navy is having lousy luck with tyrannical female Skippers aboard ship. These women are such tyrants, such cunts, so abusive of their staff, so flush with incompetence, they VERY rarely finish their tour and move upward and onward. Bad decision making rules the women in business, in politics, in the military, education. Show me one that's successful, I'll show you five thousand others not. Feminism is a constant societal bailing operation and it's cost us. It's cost us a lot. It's our decline on the line after all. And feminism put us squarely over the top.

    Go ahead, I defy anyone to show me why not. Perhaps you can point out the reasons, but the deeds of feminism top to bottom ruined the West.

  89. Pepe says:

    Hey, Steve, you may have already seen this. An editorial in the New York Times by George Borjas.

    He summarizes some of the findings of the recent NAS report on immigration and the US economy:

    “Over the past 30 years, a large fraction of immigrants, nearly a third, were high school dropouts, so the incumbent low-skill work force formed the core group of Americans who paid the price for the influx of millions of workers. Their wages fell as much as 6 percent. Those low-skill Americans included many native-born blacks and Hispanics, as well as earlier waves of immigrants.

    But somebody’s lower wage is somebody else’s higher profit. The increase in the profitability of many employers enlarged the economic pie accruing to the entire native population by about $50 billion. So, as proponents of more immigration point out, immigration can increase the aggregate wealth of Americans. But they don’t point out the trade-off involved: Workers in jobs sought by immigrants lose out.

    They also don’t point out that low-skill immigration has a side effect that reduces that $50 billion increase in wealth. The National Academy of Sciences recently estimated the impact of immigration on government budgets. On a year-to-year basis, immigrant families, mostly because of their relatively low incomes and higher frequency of participating in government programs like subsidized health care, are a fiscal burden. A comparison of taxes paid and government spending on these families showed that immigrants created an annual fiscal shortfall of $43 billion to $299 billion.

    Even the most conservative estimate of the fiscal shortfall wipes out much of the $50 billion increase in native wealth. Remarkably, the size of the native economic pie did not change much after immigration increased the number of workers by more than 15 percent. But the split of the pie certainly changed, giving far less to workers and much more to employers.”

    https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/27/opinion/the-immigration-debate-we-need.html

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  90. Bill P says:
    @Daniel Chieh

    Today’s young men have a number of “constructive sexual outlets”. They are dating. They are mating. You underestimate the prowling nature of the modern man.
     
    Why should we pay attention to actual numbers or reality when we can have pleasant fiction?

    The reality is that young men are alienated and denigrated in enormous numbers. I work as a mentor for many of them, so I can testify to this. Expecting everything to be wonderful because you think that society is overall swell is a lot like ignoring the consequences of pollution, because you think that factories are cool.

    There are certainly benefits associated with modernity. Its consequences and negative effects should not be ignored.

    From everyone I've worked with, the below is indeed true:

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3790614/They-don-t-like-drugs-gay-marriage-HATE-tattoos-Generation-Z-conservative-WW2.html

    People drifting increasingly to extremes is not a sign of overall societal health or happiness. I'm sure you would agree, as you keep advocating yourself as a "moderate." Its very much a sign of deep, abiding unhappiness in young men(and women) who are seeking desperately for some sort of answer.

    Well, guess what - there's a reason why this sense of unhappiness is increasing, and being willfully blind to it will not help increase the number of "moderates."

    From everyone I’ve worked with, the below is indeed true:

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3790614/They-don-t-like-drugs-gay-marriage-HATE-tattoos-Generation-Z-conservative-WW2.html

    It’s the result of the liberal baby bust. I’ve been expecting this to come to light soon.

    Since about 1980 conservative births have outpaced liberal ones (among whites), with the trend accelerating over the decades — conservatives currently have about 50% more kids than liberals. People started to notice about ten years ago, and now the disparity is starting to show in kids who are almost adults.

    It’s going to make for an interesting dynamic when they enter adulthood just as liberal boomers are starting to age out of dominance.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    I'm not absolutely certain, because I've also seen radicalization on the left too. The only absolute loser is the center. But yes, the increasing number of conservative births are hopeful and if hereditary models are true, should gradually swing us toward sanity.

    I think the right is winning when it comes to passion, though. I don't actually believe the left quite understands how many people they are angering, and they honestly seem to be spinning into a singularity where they can't even begin to compromise.

    , @Jim Christian

    Since about 1980 conservative births have outpaced liberal ones (among whites), with the trend accelerating over the decades — conservatives currently have about 50% more kids than liberals. People started to notice about ten years ago, and now the disparity is starting to show in kids who are almost adults.
     
    For twenty years I've been saying that feminist dogma and behavior regarding reproduction is Zero-Sum. You cannot get around the effects of 50 million abortions, 60 years of birth control and at least 30 years of anti-marriage, anti-breeding behavior of feminists and gays. People of course tell me I'm full of shit. Abortions are zero-sum. Period. Maybe they refuse conversation on the matter in media but it's happening. Look at the electorate all over the country. Pro-Life women of the 60s and their children are winning. After the decades of destruction of their reproductive factor, there are simply fewer Democrats than there would have been.

    Assuming more abortions in, more birth control pills in, more homos, fewer babies born to them and therefore, fewer Liberals out, we can start to explain how 53% of white women voted for Trump. Those are the children and grand daughters of the ProLife women that actually HAD and RAISED their children while feminists were aborting by the dozens of millions. That of course assumes Democrat mommies raise Democrat kids. I get that, that's fact. At least initially, especially after college, they're overwhelmingly liberal. More abortions in, fewer Liberals out. It is absolutely a self-immolation. And it's in play today with Governors, State Houses, the House and Senate of the U.S. and now, the White House. Even as they may deny it, they're madly trying to fill the gap with Democrat immigrants. And because it's feminist-driven, they're willing to trade away our legacy that way to stay in power. Oh yeah, it's happening.

  91. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer

    Illegal immigration to fill male jobs, such as construction worker during the Bush Bubble years, wasn’t good for male Americans, nor for the female Americans who would would marry them.

    Bush said this crazy nasty lie today to Matt Lauer: “I am for an immigration policy that’s welcoming and upholds the law,”…

    WHAT A LIE. The truth is that Bush had zero interest in upholding our immigration laws. He deliberately illegally flooded the country with his preferred helot class from Mexico.

    GWB was a destroyer of the law!

    Read More
  92. Mr. Blank says:
    @The Anti-Gnostic
    The growing obsolescence of menial labor and increasingly, human data entry and recordkeeping, is an under-remarked problem. We already divert people into way more schooling than they need, and support a lot of useless sinecures (see, again, universities). The retail interface is slowly automating, which is why everybody you deal with as a customer is generally some underpaid, overworked, low-IQ functionary. After the "name-tag jobs" disappear, what then? We will have millions of people with minimal value on the open labor market.

    We aren't going to let them (me? us?) starve. Hell, we grow enough food to throw a lot of it away. Productivity gains are gobbling up what would otherwise be manifesting as monetary inflation from all the transfer payments. This process, we are assured by the Austrian school, can only result in a massive crash and contraction of the economy back to the level supported by prior savings. But fiat money has weathered a long series of busts and come back each time. My father reminds me people were saying the same thing about the dollar when he was young.

    So what is this undiscovered country in which we find ourselves? Nobody starves to death in the West unless they are overtaken by alcoholism or drug addiction. Even the Third World is finding the resources, either native or imported, to support an unprecedented population boom.

    Has Scarcity been banished for all practical purposes? Are we now at Satiety, again, for all practical purposes? We seemingly can afford to pay young women to have a couple of children without the bother of selecting a reliable breadwinner. I'm not sure what the young men are doing but, being men, they generally find something.

    If we're at Satiety then the logical next step is Universal Basic Income. Mass democracy is not compatible with UBI.

    I’m of two minds about UBI. On one hand, I’d like to see what would happen if it were actually implemented. And not just as some half-assed welfare add-on. I mean abolish all or most existing safety net programs and replace them all with a straight Universal Basic Income. I’d be interest to see if it could actually work. It might be the only viable economic model for the future.

    On the other hand: I want some other large country to go first. I’d be too scared to be the first one to try it, because once you go down that path, it might be very hard to switch back if it all collapses.

    People being what they are, I suspect some country’s going to come along and try it eventually.

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    • Replies: @Melendwyr
    We're going to collapse anyway. Does it matter if it happens sooner, or later? Seriously - is there any benefit to postponing?
  93. @Bill P

    From everyone I’ve worked with, the below is indeed true:

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3790614/They-don-t-like-drugs-gay-marriage-HATE-tattoos-Generation-Z-conservative-WW2.html
     
    It's the result of the liberal baby bust. I've been expecting this to come to light soon.

    Since about 1980 conservative births have outpaced liberal ones (among whites), with the trend accelerating over the decades -- conservatives currently have about 50% more kids than liberals. People started to notice about ten years ago, and now the disparity is starting to show in kids who are almost adults.

    It's going to make for an interesting dynamic when they enter adulthood just as liberal boomers are starting to age out of dominance.

    I’m not absolutely certain, because I’ve also seen radicalization on the left too. The only absolute loser is the center. But yes, the increasing number of conservative births are hopeful and if hereditary models are true, should gradually swing us toward sanity.

    I think the right is winning when it comes to passion, though. I don’t actually believe the left quite understands how many people they are angering, and they honestly seem to be spinning into a singularity where they can’t even begin to compromise.

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    • Replies: @Corvinus
    "But yes, the increasing number of conservative births are hopeful and if hereditary models are true, should gradually swing us toward sanity."

    Not if those damn non-whites keep having children. Furthermore, "conservative" millennials are more supportive of LGBT rights, gender equality, and racial equality compared to previous generations. Given that, it suggests that millennial conservatives may be focusing on issues other than these, for example, economic issues and gun rights which is the basis for their conservatism.
    , @Buck Turgidson
    The far-left wacko birds are increasingly detached from reality, and they do not realize how few of them are on the lunatic fringe. Their 'day without women', or whatever they are calling it, is going to flop. I expect every woman who works in my building to report to work that day. I am not sure who is leading this foolish no-hoper, but they don't seem to appreciate that women have jobs and they have to show up for work every day, and that most of them like it and they can't and won't blow off work for some stupid goofball lunatic demonstration. Nothing will happen, they will only demonstrate their irrelevance and stupidity. The media will find other things to report on that day besides another stupid left-wing demonstration that moved <1% of the population. The dnc/communists keep losing elected office seats to Republicans, and they just triple down on stupid. It is remarkable to watch them go all-in on kookiness (ie., you can be a cocker spaniel tomorrow if you identify as such), and destroy their party in the process.
    , @dc.sunsets

    The only absolute loser is the center.
     
    I've predicted and observed this for some time.

    For a long period you watched Political Triangulation work. It targeted the "muddy middle," the weakly-held but otherwise common catechism of most Americans.

    The period of this ended in 2000. Since then, political polarization is increased. This is again PREDICTABLE. The weakly-believed "muddy middle" is fracturing, and people are moving away from it to form new, adversarial belief-camps whose members are very zealous.

    Predictable. As I said. And nowhere near completion. I've stated for some time that the coming conflagration will in all likelihood behave like a resumption of the English Civil War.
  94. Jefferson says:
    @Buck Turgidson
    Well the general idea is to pulverize and destroy white males, isn't it? For the life of me, I cannot understand how any white males can vote democrat, which is increasingly open about its quest to flatten white guys (e.g., comments from mega-moron Sally Boynton Brown who ran for dnc chair-object).

    “I cannot understand how any white males can vote democrat, which is increasingly open about its quest to flatten white guys”

    The Democratic Party as well as the Left in Europe are also extremely hostile towards White women. They completely ignore White women who are raped/killed by Muslim men, Mestizo men/Illegal Immigrant men, and Black men.

    In 2008 Crooked Cankles was not seen as vibrantly diverse enough by voters voting in the Democratic primaries even though she has a vagina.

    On the Left skin color still trumps private sexual parts on the vibrant diversity food chain.

    On the Left a Black penis is way more vibrantly diverse than a White vagina.

    Hence why the likes of George Soros likes Blackness way more than he likes Feminism. You don’t see George Soros starting an astro turf group called Women Lives Matter. Feminism bores him but Blackity Black Black Black sends a tingle up his legs. In George Soros eyes Ta-Nehisi Coates is a trillion times cooler than Gloria Steinem.

    Feminism is boring yo. Feminism didn’t give us cool Black culture like Hip Hop and the NBA nahmean.

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    • Replies: @ben tillman

    The Democratic Party as well as the Left in Europe are also extremely hostile towards White women.
     
    You're right, though they pretend not to be. They hardly even pretend to care about white men.
  95. SPMoore8 says:
    @Daniel Chieh

    Increased productivity makes people richer not poorer (because fewer workers are needed). People do not want to work, they want what work gets them. They want something that they can trade to get things they value from other productive people.
     
    Highly disagree. Work is tied into identity, people do not merely seek leisure; otherwise we would have seen an explosion of nonworking women. While money is part of it, a large portion of it status and identity conferred from being a "productive member of society."

    From what I have seen in life, most people don’t know what to do with their free time. Of course, nobody wants to work hard all the time. But most people really do need to have a series of obligations to meet in order to be happy. All you have to do is look at any number of retired people. Many of them are bored out of their minds.

    We take it for granted that our education system will be designed for the “Great Middle” — the 95-105 guys and gals. The people who are dumber than that aren’t going to profit and the ones with the higher IQ’s, never mind the 130+ types, are going to have to shift for themselves, because they are such a small minority.

    And yet, we have created a social system and an economic system that is skewed for the marginal people on both ends and completely ignores the Great Middle. I don’t know what these people think they will get. A small minority of people cleaning toilets, and a small minority of billionaires, with a lot of machines in the middle, or what?

    I just get the feeling this is all going to blow up some day.

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    • Replies: @Jefferson
    "Of course, nobody wants to work hard all the time."

    You have never heard of Vincent Kennedy McMahon. Even though he is 72 years old he rarely takes a vacation break from what I have read about him, which is extremely impressive when you factor in his age. He is a workaholic on steroids. He is Irish but he has the work ethic of a German.

  96. Jefferson says:

    “Illegal immigration to fill male jobs, such as construction worker during the Bush Bubble years, wasn’t good for male Americans, nor for the female Americans who would would marry them.”

    Now female Americans can just marry Illegal Immigrant men. Guys who racially look like Jimmy Kimmel’s Mexican sidekick Guillermo Rodriguez can now finally marry platinum blonde Nordic Aryan Goddesses because guys who racially look like them took all of the jobs from blue collar White guys. And blonde women are looking for the guys who can financially provide for them and that’s the Guillermo Rodriguez’s of the world, lol.

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  97. eah says:

    Almost more shocking than this tragic reality is how it was basically ignored by government and elites — those jobs did not disappear overnite — the economic lives of so many underclass Americans, especially in the ‘Rust Belt’, did not unravel overnite — it took decades for the devastation to be wrought — and during all that time the decline was mostly ignored — in fact, raw inaction on the part of government would probably have been better than what government actually did, eg the decisions/treaties on trade, which accelerated job loss and so made things worse — I give Trump credit for raising the plight of these people as a political issue — whether or not he can, in the end, do much to reverse all of that damage is doubtful.

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  98. Jefferson says:
    @SPMoore8
    From what I have seen in life, most people don't know what to do with their free time. Of course, nobody wants to work hard all the time. But most people really do need to have a series of obligations to meet in order to be happy. All you have to do is look at any number of retired people. Many of them are bored out of their minds.

    We take it for granted that our education system will be designed for the "Great Middle" -- the 95-105 guys and gals. The people who are dumber than that aren't going to profit and the ones with the higher IQ's, never mind the 130+ types, are going to have to shift for themselves, because they are such a small minority.

    And yet, we have created a social system and an economic system that is skewed for the marginal people on both ends and completely ignores the Great Middle. I don't know what these people think they will get. A small minority of people cleaning toilets, and a small minority of billionaires, with a lot of machines in the middle, or what?

    I just get the feeling this is all going to blow up some day.

    “Of course, nobody wants to work hard all the time.”

    You have never heard of Vincent Kennedy McMahon. Even though he is 72 years old he rarely takes a vacation break from what I have read about him, which is extremely impressive when you factor in his age. He is a workaholic on steroids. He is Irish but he has the work ethic of a German.

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  99. I used to be in journalism and found my opportunities limited. I didn’t have to worry about Mexicans, but rather Canadians and Brits, who take lots of jobs at the country’s best papers. I never got married and am glad I didn’t.

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  100. Melendwyr says: • Website
    @Spotted Toad
    I did some simple analyses of this issue a few months back using publicly available data: TLDR, very few people get married when women are expected to earn more than men, and the subgroups that still marry are those where men earn a lot more than women.

    https://spottedtoad.wordpress.com/2016/08/24/say-you-dont-need-no-diamond-ring/

    Why buy the cow when you can get the milk for free? There will always be men willing to enter into romantic and sexual relationships without any expectation of marriage. And if children are desired, to sire them. What is the purpose of marriage in that sort of situation? Regardless of what the anti-gay-marriage types say, the point of the marriage contract isn’t so much to encourage children as to ensure financial stability for women. When that’s not an issue…

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  101. Melendwyr says: • Website
    @Mr. Blank
    I'm of two minds about UBI. On one hand, I'd like to see what would happen if it were actually implemented. And not just as some half-assed welfare add-on. I mean abolish all or most existing safety net programs and replace them all with a straight Universal Basic Income. I'd be interest to see if it could actually work. It might be the only viable economic model for the future.

    On the other hand: I want some other large country to go first. I'd be too scared to be the first one to try it, because once you go down that path, it might be very hard to switch back if it all collapses.

    People being what they are, I suspect some country's going to come along and try it eventually.

    We’re going to collapse anyway. Does it matter if it happens sooner, or later? Seriously – is there any benefit to postponing?

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    • Replies: @Charles Erwin Wilson

    We’re going to collapse anyway.
     
    Only if otherwise sane people take leave of their senses and believe you.
  102. @Federalist
    "It’s a shame by 2005 concept of “affordable family formation” took so long to catch on."

    ". . . my 2005 concept . . ." Right?

    “It’s a shame by 2005 concept of “affordable family formation” took so long to catch on.”

    I somewhat disagree with our host here. I really don’t think this is spot on his “affordable family formation” thesis. It’s related.

    But to me a key aspect of his affordable family formation thesis was … *affordable*. I.e. affordable even for folks who do have jobs. A key aspect in relating it to voting patterns is that family formation is more affordable in flyover country. But it isn’t because those folks are in a better place in the job market–actually those are the areas most trade impacted. Rather it was that immigration–crowding cities, crashing the quality of neighborhoods, boosting housing prices–has made *even guys with reasonable jobs, even already married couples* in coastal cities less likely to “get on with it”, knock up the wife and start a family. And, of course, that this has political effects.

    This is the companion piece that immigration and trade are suppressing the number of guys who are “husband material” while welfare, the government make work female employment–direct and regulatory driven–technological change and changed sexual mores are reducing the female demand for male provisioning (upping their male price requirement). Men supplying less, women demanding more -> marriage down. You could call it “marriage suppression”.

    ~~

    I’ve thought through this stuff myself in detail, as have many others. Basically male ingenuity has created such incredible prosperity that once the government forced involuntary non-marital redistribution of male labor to females …. lots of females no longer found males to be “mission critical” to their life and even child rearing. Obviously they are still–mostly, lesbian turkey basters aside–relying on males for DNA injection services, and most really, really want a male in their life. But the calculus has definitely changed.

    I think civilization is basically suppressing male conflict over women–via one-per-customer monogamy–into non-violent male competition and cooperation, allowing male energy\capability\ingenuity to be channeled into production and building great stuff. So breaking the marital paradigm puts us in very uncertain territory.

    The one thing i’m certain of: women neither create nor even maintain civilization. They may civilized individual men. But they do not create\maintain civilization. So turning the West in a fem-fest is *not* going to end well. Either real male leadership is re-asserted or the West–as seems to be the case now–will die and be replaced by something less feminized.

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    • Replies: @Melendwyr
    Interesting. Do you suggest that the people driving these policies are intentionally creating those results, or is it inadvertent in your view?
  103. @scrivener3
    Increased productivity makes people richer not poorer (because fewer workers are needed). People do not want to work, they want what work gets them. They want something that they can trade to get things they value from other productive people.

    Many of the successful doctors in my area have non-working wives who dedicate themselves to child rearing and managing the household. Maybe we will become rich enough as a society that most women can stay home, raise children and enjoy leisure like daytime tennis matches and brunches. With a quarter of the people voluntarily leaving the workforce wages would be higher for those who do work full time.

    We (advanced industrial countries) were societies where women down to at least the Skilled Working Class did stay at home. Then the banks offered mortgages based on two incomes and so disaster.

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  104. ABC News: 2016 saw a 56% increase in police officers killed by gunfire and a 163% increase in cops killed in ambushes. Apparent increase in willingness of criminals to use guns against police. Why? Well that’s anybody’s guess.

    http://abcnews.go.com/US/video-captures-police-involved-shooting-dc-left-man/story?id=45716942

    This is the report referenced in the video: http://www.nleomf.org/assets/pdfs/reports/Preliminary-2016-EOY-Officer-Fatalities-Report.pdf

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  105. @Almost Missouri
    Actually, they have the biggest donor male of all: Uncle Sam and his fabulous Welfare Machine.

    Unwed motherhood really is a viable and attractive(!) career option for underclass young (and not-so-young) women. Many get into it through inertia but many also seek it out; and it's not hard to find.

    The NBER study only shows half the equation: the diminution of provision for children from working males. The other side of the equation is that the Federal government and its vast bureaucracy of state and local accomplices has been ratcheting up the provision for children without working males for most of a century. If it were only that male wages were diminishing, the corresponding female fecundity would diminish until it reached the equilibrium at which the males could support it. But the government and larger culture has stepped in to subsidize an artificially high level of female fecundity and has done it most amongst the females one would least like to have reproducing.

    The rotten fruit of this insane policy are on display at your local ghetto.

    Almost Missouri, thank you for a great reply.

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  106. Melendwyr says: • Website
    @AnotherDad

    “It’s a shame by 2005 concept of “affordable family formation” took so long to catch on.”
     

    I somewhat disagree with our host here. I really don't think this is spot on his "affordable family formation" thesis. It's related.

    But to me a key aspect of his affordable family formation thesis was ... *affordable*. I.e. affordable even for folks who do have jobs. A key aspect in relating it to voting patterns is that family formation is more affordable in flyover country. But it isn't because those folks are in a better place in the job market--actually those are the areas most trade impacted. Rather it was that immigration--crowding cities, crashing the quality of neighborhoods, boosting housing prices--has made *even guys with reasonable jobs, even already married couples* in coastal cities less likely to "get on with it", knock up the wife and start a family. And, of course, that this has political effects.

    This is the companion piece that immigration and trade are suppressing the number of guys who are "husband material" while welfare, the government make work female employment--direct and regulatory driven--technological change and changed sexual mores are reducing the female demand for male provisioning (upping their male price requirement). Men supplying less, women demanding more -> marriage down. You could call it "marriage suppression".

    ~~

    I've thought through this stuff myself in detail, as have many others. Basically male ingenuity has created such incredible prosperity that once the government forced involuntary non-marital redistribution of male labor to females .... lots of females no longer found males to be "mission critical" to their life and even child rearing. Obviously they are still--mostly, lesbian turkey basters aside--relying on males for DNA injection services, and most really, really want a male in their life. But the calculus has definitely changed.

    I think civilization is basically suppressing male conflict over women--via one-per-customer monogamy--into non-violent male competition and cooperation, allowing male energy\capability\ingenuity to be channeled into production and building great stuff. So breaking the marital paradigm puts us in very uncertain territory.

    The one thing i'm certain of: women neither create nor even maintain civilization. They may civilized individual men. But they do not create\maintain civilization. So turning the West in a fem-fest is *not* going to end well. Either real male leadership is re-asserted or the West--as seems to be the case now--will die and be replaced by something less feminized.

    Interesting. Do you suggest that the people driving these policies are intentionally creating those results, or is it inadvertent in your view?

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  107. @Corvinus
    "The reality is that young men are alienated and denigrated in enormous numbers."

    If one listens to the MGTOW crowd, or to social media, or to the manosphere, assuredly.

    "I work as a mentor for many of them, so I can testify to this.:"

    Anecdotal. And the young men I know are cleaning up both professionally and personally. If increasing numbers of males are not competing, why should those who are working hard on their careers and bodies feel any sympathy for them?

    "From everyone I’ve worked with, the below is indeed true"

    The survey targeted 14 and 15 year olds and represents a small segment of the population. Moreover, what were the political persuasion of this group? What were their socio-economic status? What is their home life like? All relevant questions here regarding the backgrounds of the respondents.

    Were you as disapproving of the manosphere when you were posting regularly at Chateau Heartiste?

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    • Replies: @Corvinus
    "Were you as disapproving of the manosphere when you were posting regularly at Chateau Heartiste?"

    I don't post there. I believe a "Corvo", however, is a regular guest.

    Regardless, are you unconcerned that your pal remains single and has yet to sire white offspring?
  108. @bored identity



    " ...improving women’s labor-market conditions during recent decades..."

     

    That's not only sexist, but also sounds very fakexploitative towards men:

    There is only one labour-market; and wimmin of all colors and sizes are just doing awesomely way better than men because they are also, by all means, better fitted than men in all aspects for very demanding needs of very complicated 21st century.

    (Here, I said it!
    Can I get my old job back now?
    Please....)

    Female HR, affirmative action, government employment and quotas to the private sector bent toward women. Check the commercials. They market all to women because that’s where the money is.

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  109. Corvinus says:
    @Daniel Chieh
    I'm not absolutely certain, because I've also seen radicalization on the left too. The only absolute loser is the center. But yes, the increasing number of conservative births are hopeful and if hereditary models are true, should gradually swing us toward sanity.

    I think the right is winning when it comes to passion, though. I don't actually believe the left quite understands how many people they are angering, and they honestly seem to be spinning into a singularity where they can't even begin to compromise.

    “But yes, the increasing number of conservative births are hopeful and if hereditary models are true, should gradually swing us toward sanity.”

    Not if those damn non-whites keep having children. Furthermore, “conservative” millennials are more supportive of LGBT rights, gender equality, and racial equality compared to previous generations. Given that, it suggests that millennial conservatives may be focusing on issues other than these, for example, economic issues and gun rights which is the basis for their conservatism.

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    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh

    Not if those damn non-whites keep having children. Furthermore, “conservative” millennials are more supportive of LGBT rights, gender equality, and racial equality compared to previous generations.
     
    While your beliefs are adorable, that's not what I'm seeing with the youngest generation, which include quite a few women blaming feminism for their unhappiness and a huge number of people jumping aboard the HBD bandwagon. Mind you, I'm not saying that fully agree with this - blaming anything for your own unhappiness is very much victim politics like any other(and reeks of stereotypical "I hate mamma's politics, I'm edgy") and many of those who take to HBD aren't doing so in a particular nuanced way to put it lightly. But it doesn't change my experience and empirical reality.

    And this includes those "damn non-whites" who, while willing to vote against Republicans at present due to immigration issues, swing very far conservative on other issues - abortion, for starters. I've never seen more extreme anti-abortionists than Hispanic women. Its not something I've fully understood, though I don't really care.

    And the "equality" misnomers are hilarious; they are obviously not about equality, and at any rate, it doesn't matter as the pie is shrinking, each identity will become more tribal to get what they can of the pie.

    Equality, like liberty and fairness, is whatever you want to define it as. Its exactly why it becomes increasingly divorced from any reality, and ever more extreme as stressors increase.

    Hope burns eternal for "moderates" like you, though, I'm sure. Good luck.

  110. @Corvinus
    "But yes, the increasing number of conservative births are hopeful and if hereditary models are true, should gradually swing us toward sanity."

    Not if those damn non-whites keep having children. Furthermore, "conservative" millennials are more supportive of LGBT rights, gender equality, and racial equality compared to previous generations. Given that, it suggests that millennial conservatives may be focusing on issues other than these, for example, economic issues and gun rights which is the basis for their conservatism.

    Not if those damn non-whites keep having children. Furthermore, “conservative” millennials are more supportive of LGBT rights, gender equality, and racial equality compared to previous generations.

    While your beliefs are adorable, that’s not what I’m seeing with the youngest generation, which include quite a few women blaming feminism for their unhappiness and a huge number of people jumping aboard the HBD bandwagon. Mind you, I’m not saying that fully agree with this – blaming anything for your own unhappiness is very much victim politics like any other(and reeks of stereotypical “I hate mamma’s politics, I’m edgy”) and many of those who take to HBD aren’t doing so in a particular nuanced way to put it lightly. But it doesn’t change my experience and empirical reality.

    And this includes those “damn non-whites” who, while willing to vote against Republicans at present due to immigration issues, swing very far conservative on other issues – abortion, for starters. I’ve never seen more extreme anti-abortionists than Hispanic women. Its not something I’ve fully understood, though I don’t really care.

    And the “equality” misnomers are hilarious; they are obviously not about equality, and at any rate, it doesn’t matter as the pie is shrinking, each identity will become more tribal to get what they can of the pie.

    Equality, like liberty and fairness, is whatever you want to define it as. Its exactly why it becomes increasingly divorced from any reality, and ever more extreme as stressors increase.

    Hope burns eternal for “moderates” like you, though, I’m sure. Good luck.

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    • Replies: @Corvinus
    "While your beliefs are adorable, that’s not what I’m seeing with the youngest generation..."

    Which, again, is anecdotal.

    "which include quite a few women blaming feminism for their unhappiness and a huge number of people jumping aboard the HBD bandwagon."

    Or a few women who continue to support feminist causes, as well as a huge number of people thoroughly questioning the validity of HBD.

    "Mind you, I’m not saying that fully agree with this – blaming anything for your own unhappiness is very much victim politics like any other(and reeks of stereotypical “I hate mamma’s politics, I’m edgy”) and many of those who take to HBD aren’t doing so in a particular nuanced way to put it lightly. But it doesn’t change my experience and empirical reality."

    YOUR experience and empirical reality, indeed.

    "And this includes those “damn non-whites” who, while willing to vote against Republicans at present due to immigration issues, swing very far conservative on other issues – abortion, for starters. I’ve never seen more extreme anti-abortionists than Hispanic women. Its not something I’ve fully understood, though I don’t really care."

    It is other than surprising that Hispanic women, who tend to be very religious, as being opposed to abortion.

    And the “equality” misnomers are hilarious; they are obviously not about equality, and at any rate, it doesn’t matter as the pie is shrinking, each identity will become more tribal to get what they can of the pie.

    "Equality, like liberty and fairness, is whatever you want to define it as. Its exactly why it becomes increasingly divorced from any reality, and ever more extreme as stressors increase."

    Exactly why moderates like myself shake their head at the Coalition of the Right and Left who co-opt these terms for their own designs.

    "Hope burns eternal for “moderates” like you, though, I’m sure. Good luck."

    Hope that the extremists on both sides will be exposed as frauds, yes.
    , @Jefferson
    "I’ve never seen more extreme anti-abortionists than Hispanic women."

    Than why was the march for life anti-abortion march in Washington DC this year Whiter than sour cream. From the images I saw on television the vast majority of the women there were not Hispanic. The vast majority of the women there did not racially look like the women who clean the rooms at the local Comfort Suites and take your order at the local Jack In The Box.

  111. Amasius says:

    Polygamy is poised for a comeback. It’s already happening informally with the sugar baby/sugar daddy phenomenon, and alpha male players with their harems. Enter Kody Brown, the “Sister Wives” guy lobbying the government for his civil rights. If we’re going to let men marry other men, why not let a man marry multiple women?

    Our “Soylent Green” future, complete with furniture girls.

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    • Replies: @Pericles
    Polygamy is already here and hale and well. It would be pointless to ruin a good welfare scam by registering a government marriage though. Keep it in the mosque and each of your wives will get a nice apartment for free to raise her brood.

    Or you have ghetto polygamy, which is more of an informal popularity contest. So some of the players manage to have 33 children in the periods they are out of prison, others fewer. The women have a handful with various men who take their fancy, but again yo don't ruin it. The men are always broke, at least for society's purposes.
  112. MBlanc46 says:
    @Buck Turgidson
    Well the general idea is to pulverize and destroy white males, isn't it? For the life of me, I cannot understand how any white males can vote democrat, which is increasingly open about its quest to flatten white guys (e.g., comments from mega-moron Sally Boynton Brown who ran for dnc chair-object).

    It does appear that fewer and fewer of them are doing so.

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  113. MBlanc46 says:
    @JackOH
    Has there been any actual good to come out of the deliberate disempowerment/demoralization of menfolk? Serious, non-smart-alecky question.

    Many of the young women feel much better about themselves.

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    • Replies: @Old fogey
    Most young women that I have known over the years since the sexual revolution are searching for husbands and not finding any. This does not make them feel better about themselves. Not having a "normal" family is not "empowering," it makes you lonely and sad.
  114. @Marina
    I have more autonomy as a stay at home mom than I ever did as an employee. The toddler is needy and clingy and all the rest, but crucially she's subordinate to me and she can't fire me if she's unhappy. I've had more time to read/engage in hobbies/keep my preferred hours since leaving the labor market. Also, my husband is very fond of me, so he's tolerant of slip ups in a way a boss isn't.

    It's not the lack of autonomy that makes being a SAHM hard. It's the social isolation and low status. The day to day work of most jobs suck, but if you have a white collar career, you get to dress up in nice outfits and engage in stimulating social interaction. I get treated by a lot of women like staying home with a child means I'm some kind of moron. Fix that, and staying home becomes a lot more attractive to women.

    >I get treated by a lot of women like staying home with a child means I’m some kind of moron.

    People say/do this to your face in real life? How do you respond?

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  115. Corvinus says:
    @Daniel Chieh

    If one listens to the MGTOW crowd, or to social media, or to the manosphere, assuredly.
     
    The crowd I work with is entirely separate. Perhaps you'll like to add "young Christian conservative men" to an additional slur list. Please do. It'll help push them further away from your "moderation."

    Anecdotal. And the young men I know are cleaning up both professionally and personally. If increasing numbers of males are not competing, why should those who are working hard on their careers and bodies feel any sympathy for them?
     
    It speaks incredibly of the bubble that you've managed to isolate yourself into. And no, actually, sympathy is not needed for anyone or anything. But there are obvious consequences of forgotten and underutilized males, who by the way, are certainly improving their bodies.

    But of course, you seem to have an adorable assumption that the entire group of the disaffected consists of skinny basement dwellers. A common assessment, I've found.


    The survey targeted 14 and 15 year olds and represents a small segment of the population. Moreover, what were the political persuasion of this group? What were their socio-economic status? What is their home life like? All relevant questions here regarding the backgrounds of the respondents.
     
    A favorite habit of liberals like you is to obfuscate the issue - but its meaningless. If the water is rising, asking about the phase of the moon, the fish in the lake or the growth of algae can certainly be useful, but it doesn't do anything to address the singular reality: water is rising.

    And you will be inundated.

    “The crowd I work with is entirely separate. Perhaps you’ll like to add “young Christian conservative men” to an additional slur list. Please do. It’ll help push them further away from your “moderation.””

    First, not all or most young Christian conservative men believe in this “women are subservient to men”. Second, you best take heed to young Christian conservative women on the matter when it comes to their men endorsing Trump.

    “You failed the ultimate test life throws at politicians and religious leaders: You made a choice to protect your power at the cost of the people, at the cost of women, and the future civility of our culture. The religious people mentioned above, and others like them, have undermined their own faith and cheapened their words. Moreover, they have misrepresented the Christian faith before a watching secular world.”

    http://thefederalist.com/2016/10/10/supporting-trump-conservative-men-abandon-conservative-women/

    “It speaks incredibly of the bubble that you’ve managed to isolate yourself into.”

    “But there are obvious consequences of forgotten and underutilized males, who by the way, are certainly improving their bodies.”

    I’ll wait for the movie to come out.

    “But of course, you seem to have an adorable assumption that the entire group of the disaffected consists of skinny basement dwellers. A common assessment, I’ve found.”

    I submitted a known fact that the loudest group of disaffected men to specific groups. Young Christian conservative men are NOT part of that crowd. MGTOW’s and the manosphere are the ones who constantly complain about the lack of “proper” female prospects. Your disdain ought to be directed toward Heartiste, a middle aged man who is unmarried and has no white children. He promotes the “pump and dump” lifestyle that obviously opposes the values of young Christian conservative men.

    “A favorite habit of liberals like you is to obfuscate the issue – but its meaningless.”

    You offered one data point based on a survey consisting of 14 and 15 year olds who lack the world view and nuance of older teens and young adults. This poll is just a wee bit more accurate.

    http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2014/09/25/the-gops-millennial-problem-runs-deep/

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    • Replies: @Rando
    The original Heartiste is married and has children. He has said as much on the blog.
    , @Daniel Chieh

    Your disdain ought to be directed toward Heartiste, a middle aged man who is unmarried and has no white children. He promotes the “pump and dump” lifestyle that obviously opposes the values of young Christian conservative men.
     
    My disdain for destructive liberals like yourself is accurately placed. Don't worry, it won't go anywhere even in spite of handfisted attempts to redirect ourselves to splinter.

    Oh and the best thing about HBD, and reality in general? Truth is not a democracy. Sucks for you.

    Bye.

  116. Corvinus says:
    @Daniel Chieh

    Not if those damn non-whites keep having children. Furthermore, “conservative” millennials are more supportive of LGBT rights, gender equality, and racial equality compared to previous generations.
     
    While your beliefs are adorable, that's not what I'm seeing with the youngest generation, which include quite a few women blaming feminism for their unhappiness and a huge number of people jumping aboard the HBD bandwagon. Mind you, I'm not saying that fully agree with this - blaming anything for your own unhappiness is very much victim politics like any other(and reeks of stereotypical "I hate mamma's politics, I'm edgy") and many of those who take to HBD aren't doing so in a particular nuanced way to put it lightly. But it doesn't change my experience and empirical reality.

    And this includes those "damn non-whites" who, while willing to vote against Republicans at present due to immigration issues, swing very far conservative on other issues - abortion, for starters. I've never seen more extreme anti-abortionists than Hispanic women. Its not something I've fully understood, though I don't really care.

    And the "equality" misnomers are hilarious; they are obviously not about equality, and at any rate, it doesn't matter as the pie is shrinking, each identity will become more tribal to get what they can of the pie.

    Equality, like liberty and fairness, is whatever you want to define it as. Its exactly why it becomes increasingly divorced from any reality, and ever more extreme as stressors increase.

    Hope burns eternal for "moderates" like you, though, I'm sure. Good luck.

    “While your beliefs are adorable, that’s not what I’m seeing with the youngest generation…”

    Which, again, is anecdotal.

    “which include quite a few women blaming feminism for their unhappiness and a huge number of people jumping aboard the HBD bandwagon.”

    Or a few women who continue to support feminist causes, as well as a huge number of people thoroughly questioning the validity of HBD.

    “Mind you, I’m not saying that fully agree with this – blaming anything for your own unhappiness is very much victim politics like any other(and reeks of stereotypical “I hate mamma’s politics, I’m edgy”) and many of those who take to HBD aren’t doing so in a particular nuanced way to put it lightly. But it doesn’t change my experience and empirical reality.”

    YOUR experience and empirical reality, indeed.

    “And this includes those “damn non-whites” who, while willing to vote against Republicans at present due to immigration issues, swing very far conservative on other issues – abortion, for starters. I’ve never seen more extreme anti-abortionists than Hispanic women. Its not something I’ve fully understood, though I don’t really care.”

    It is other than surprising that Hispanic women, who tend to be very religious, as being opposed to abortion.

    And the “equality” misnomers are hilarious; they are obviously not about equality, and at any rate, it doesn’t matter as the pie is shrinking, each identity will become more tribal to get what they can of the pie.

    “Equality, like liberty and fairness, is whatever you want to define it as. Its exactly why it becomes increasingly divorced from any reality, and ever more extreme as stressors increase.”

    Exactly why moderates like myself shake their head at the Coalition of the Right and Left who co-opt these terms for their own designs.

    “Hope burns eternal for “moderates” like you, though, I’m sure. Good luck.”

    Hope that the extremists on both sides will be exposed as frauds, yes.

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  117. @MW
    Yup. The plight of African-Americans should have been a warning to white America, even if they didn't care about the welfare of blacks per se. If you run the same experiment on whites (i.e. take away the economic opportunities for a huge % of their men), why would you not expect similar results?

    “If you run the same experiment on whites (i.e. take away the economic opportunities for a huge % of their men), why would you not expect similar results?”

    It’s not just the jobs and wages – they were low in the US and UK in the 1930s, but white communities held together. The cultural damage since the 60s has been immense and a lot of that cultural infrastructure (esp Christianity in the media/schools, the church or chapel round which many communities centred) has been removed for most people, so we’ll expect things to be worse this time round.

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  118. Corvinus says:
    @ATX Hipster
    Were you as disapproving of the manosphere when you were posting regularly at Chateau Heartiste?

    “Were you as disapproving of the manosphere when you were posting regularly at Chateau Heartiste?”

    I don’t post there. I believe a “Corvo”, however, is a regular guest.

    Regardless, are you unconcerned that your pal remains single and has yet to sire white offspring?

    Read More
    • Replies: @ATX Hipster

    I don’t post there. I believe a “Corvo”, however, is a regular guest.
     
    A site search turns up both, although I don't think there's anything attributed to a Corvinus more recent than a couple years ago. Since you mention that site frequently I'm assuming it's you.

    I don't keep up with that site or Heartiste's family situation. If he doesn't want children, then for the sake of his hypothetical kids he shouldn't have them. I stumbled across your posts over there following a link to something posted by our very own Whorefinder, and things started making sense.

    My guess is you found the red pill/manosphere out of frustration with women, ended up being unsuccessful learning game, and became disillusioned with the whole thing.

  119. Corvinus says:
    @dc.sunsets

    I wouldn’t rely on a man who himself is not married and has no white children.
     
    Wait a minute. What did you write?

    My head hurts; I agree with this. I'll add that the man who is employed, self-supporting, has a wife and kids and his wife quit her job to be a full-time mother (instead of farming out the raising of their most precious of all things, their kids) is the one to whom we should listen.

    He might actually have a clue.

    (Of course, I just described how my kids were raised, and I just described the two of my three kids who have their own children, so I'm admittedly biased.)

    “I’ll add that the man who is employed, self-supporting, has a wife and kids and his wife quit her job to be a full-time mother (instead of farming out the raising of their most precious of all things, their kids) is the one to whom we should listen.”

    The one to whom we should listen to are married couples who have decided for themselves to have children and have decided for themselves if the husband and/or wife will work along the way. It’s not your decision to make in the end, thank goodness.

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  120. Njguy73 says:
    @Diversity Heretic
    I'm kind of waiting for Whiskeys post on this one, but if men aren't attractive marriage partners for reasons of economic security, women will be free to indulge their hypergamous tendencies. Lots of young men will have no constructive sexual outlets. I see two possibilities: (1) formation of gangs that simply enslave a number of women for sexual release; or (2) pervasive withdrawal into video games and virtual reality. If technology invents a sexbot that can basically fulfill 90-95% of men's sexual needs, then I think it's game over. Female economic independence is one of Chateau Heartiste's Six Sirenes of the Sexual Apocalypse and it looks like this one is singing louder and louder.

    Lots of young men will have no constructive sexual outlets. I see two possibilities: (1) formation of gangs that simply enslave a number of women for sexual release; or (2) pervasive withdrawal into video games and virtual reality.

    (3) Support the growth of secular monastical orders where young men with no constructive sexual outlets can be of service to their communities. Some might grow food, others may produce some non-food goods. Some may be entirely self-supporting, some may be supported by a community, like a Catholic monastery or convent was supported by a parish.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Buffalo Joe
    Njguy73, Yeah, well a lot of those celibate men with no sexual outlet, caused a scandal in the Catholic community, a very deep, hard to remove stain.
  121. Rando says:
    @Corvinus
    "The crowd I work with is entirely separate. Perhaps you’ll like to add “young Christian conservative men” to an additional slur list. Please do. It’ll help push them further away from your “moderation.”"

    First, not all or most young Christian conservative men believe in this "women are subservient to men". Second, you best take heed to young Christian conservative women on the matter when it comes to their men endorsing Trump.

    "You failed the ultimate test life throws at politicians and religious leaders: You made a choice to protect your power at the cost of the people, at the cost of women, and the future civility of our culture. The religious people mentioned above, and others like them, have undermined their own faith and cheapened their words. Moreover, they have misrepresented the Christian faith before a watching secular world."

    http://thefederalist.com/2016/10/10/supporting-trump-conservative-men-abandon-conservative-women/

    "It speaks incredibly of the bubble that you’ve managed to isolate yourself into."

    "But there are obvious consequences of forgotten and underutilized males, who by the way, are certainly improving their bodies."

    I'll wait for the movie to come out.

    "But of course, you seem to have an adorable assumption that the entire group of the disaffected consists of skinny basement dwellers. A common assessment, I’ve found."

    I submitted a known fact that the loudest group of disaffected men to specific groups. Young Christian conservative men are NOT part of that crowd. MGTOW's and the manosphere are the ones who constantly complain about the lack of "proper" female prospects. Your disdain ought to be directed toward Heartiste, a middle aged man who is unmarried and has no white children. He promotes the "pump and dump" lifestyle that obviously opposes the values of young Christian conservative men.

    "A favorite habit of liberals like you is to obfuscate the issue – but its meaningless."

    You offered one data point based on a survey consisting of 14 and 15 year olds who lack the world view and nuance of older teens and young adults. This poll is just a wee bit more accurate.

    http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2014/09/25/the-gops-millennial-problem-runs-deep/

    The original Heartiste is married and has children. He has said as much on the blog.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Corvinus
    "The original Heartiste is married and has children. He has said as much on the blog."

    Exact citation?
  122. Jefferson says:
    @Daniel Chieh

    Not if those damn non-whites keep having children. Furthermore, “conservative” millennials are more supportive of LGBT rights, gender equality, and racial equality compared to previous generations.
     
    While your beliefs are adorable, that's not what I'm seeing with the youngest generation, which include quite a few women blaming feminism for their unhappiness and a huge number of people jumping aboard the HBD bandwagon. Mind you, I'm not saying that fully agree with this - blaming anything for your own unhappiness is very much victim politics like any other(and reeks of stereotypical "I hate mamma's politics, I'm edgy") and many of those who take to HBD aren't doing so in a particular nuanced way to put it lightly. But it doesn't change my experience and empirical reality.

    And this includes those "damn non-whites" who, while willing to vote against Republicans at present due to immigration issues, swing very far conservative on other issues - abortion, for starters. I've never seen more extreme anti-abortionists than Hispanic women. Its not something I've fully understood, though I don't really care.

    And the "equality" misnomers are hilarious; they are obviously not about equality, and at any rate, it doesn't matter as the pie is shrinking, each identity will become more tribal to get what they can of the pie.

    Equality, like liberty and fairness, is whatever you want to define it as. Its exactly why it becomes increasingly divorced from any reality, and ever more extreme as stressors increase.

    Hope burns eternal for "moderates" like you, though, I'm sure. Good luck.

    “I’ve never seen more extreme anti-abortionists than Hispanic women.”

    Than why was the march for life anti-abortion march in Washington DC this year Whiter than sour cream. From the images I saw on television the vast majority of the women there were not Hispanic. The vast majority of the women there did not racially look like the women who clean the rooms at the local Comfort Suites and take your order at the local Jack In The Box.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Njguy73

    From the images I saw on television
     
    Oh, well, there you go. TV always shows everything. The media would never focus on one thing while ignoring something else.
  123. @Discard
    I think a relatively small percent of men would want to return to 48 hour weeks raking slag in a foundry, but they were better off doing that than doing nothing. And we got nice metal castings out of the deal. From today's womens' work, we get useless paperwork. They could just as well do their gossiping at the supermarket or the village well, and we'd have better meals and healthier children in the bargain.

    Discard, During the years of WWII, many women held very meaningful jobs in steel mills and other heavy industry. They willing surrendered their jobs to their men at the end of the War. There was one female millwright at the Buffalo Republic Steel plant in the ’60s who was a holdover from the war years. She held her own with the guys, including rigging and machinery repair. Couldn’t steam clean or sandblast her back to looking feminine though.

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  124. @Robert Hume
    Isn't the obvious solution to this particular case to outlaw performance-enhancing drugs to participants regardless of the reason for taking them?

    Robert, Bingo, in this case and any similar case, regardless of the gender, doses of testosterone is an advantage. Mark McGuire for instance.

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  125. The Democrat’s entire Life of Julia is built around an economy that needs nothing more than a man’s sperm-true to The World According to Garp. Meanwhile, the British midlands has erected a statue as a tribute to matrifocalism as the new normal.

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    • Replies: @Pericles
    Well, Julia also needs a lot of men hidden in the background to fund and provide all those services. But she won't have to feel anything except entitlement about that.
  126. Luke Lea says:

    For what it’s worth, a comprehensive approach to trade, immigration, and automation as they depress workers’ wages would have four parts, three of them straightforward:

    1. A wage-price equalization tax on imports from low-wage countries like China in order to eliminate wage-arbitrage as the motive for off-shoring American jobs.

    2. An immigration moratorium (pause, time-out) until we can integrate and assimilate the 70 million first- and second-generation immigrants (including 11 million illegal) who are already here, the vast majority from societies with little, or no, democratic tradtions.

    3. New statutory restrictions on the hours of labor to offset the decline in the demand for labor caused by new labor-saving technologies.

    As readers have pointed out, even if all three of these things were done, it seems unlikely that labor’s share of the GDP pie would return to where it was in the decades after WWII, namely, 70%. So a fourth policy step would be tax incomes derived from capital (including human capital) using the proceeds to subsidize the wages of labor. Unfortunately that is something we don’t yet know how to do, at least not in a fair and efficient way. But I have recently come up with an idea that I am just foolish enough to believe might point the way:

    https://docs.google.com/document/d/1WIdVnQEWdYgYYly9iKkesWCVhfINvbtwuVq2GMOxMbw/edit?usp=sharing

    Maybe Ron Unz or someone with similar mathematical skills would like to comment?

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  127. @AndrewR
    Yikes. Someone is cranky today...

    Not cranky, just trying to be succinct; otherwise I could go on and on about this.

    But one of things that really does aggravate me is the recent (within the last year or so) upsurge in the popularity of the automation meme. Even Drudge and Zero Hedge have really gotten in on the act. If it’s not self-driving cars and teller-less banks, it’s robots and AI are going to eliminate half of all jobs by 2030.

    No, they aren’t.

    The low hanging fruits of automation have already been picked. Any further attempts to automate economic activity are going to run in to a wall of diminishing returns. It amounts to setting up a Rube Goldberg contraption to perform a task that a human being can actually do cheaper and with less hassle. The one-off windfall accruing to stockholders from the elimination of a company’s current workforce is actually a form of liquidation. This is predatory capitalism that strip-mines the accumulated wealth of society, leaving desolation in its wake.

    Furthermore, any dreams of an automated world are not compatible with the growing trend of economic nationalism and beggar-thy-neighbor trade policies we are witnessing. Automation requires an abundance of computers, chips, software, and programmers—all currently available on the cheap due to globalism. When the trade wars begin in earnest, tech is going to become a rare and expensive commodity that will have to be allocated sparingly. The whole idea of an army of robotic burger-flippers at McD’s is going to be seen for the moronic extravagance that it is.

    Read More
    • Replies: @David Davenport
    His arguments almost always rely on general principle and lack the personal color you see from female posters left and right.

    Corvinus' posts are garrulous but never incisive, a trait one often associates with Progressive-minded women.

    I think that Corvinus is a Corvina.
    , @Rob McX
    The trend towards automation depends on the alternatives that are available to halt or slow it down, e.g. a plentiful supply of Third World immigrants willing to do a job for $8 an hour.
    , @Carbon blob
    Burger-flippers shouldn't be scared shitless about automation right now. Doctors, on the other hand -- it's not hard to imagine AI-assisted doctors being able to handle 2-3x as many patients as they can right now (and thus 50-66% of doctors being put out of work).
  128. @Anonymouse
    The corpse of St. Michael the Brown, the shoplifter of cigars who wrestled with the cop and was shot dead, weighed 293 lbs according to the police. Cop said it was like wrestling with Hulk Hogan.

    Cop was acquited but was forced to resign. For a while he and his family were in hiding from SJW vigilantes.

    Thanks. That provides some interesting context.

    Using el cheapo online calorie calculator, to maintain that weight St. Michael had a caloric intake of 3,785 calories per day. If he wanted to lose weight (advisable) at the rate of one pound per week, he’d need to reduce that to 3,244 calories per day. His pictures seem to indicate he wasn’t foregoing any calories. The only “food insecurity” he had was if Mickey D’s was closed around the time he wanted his fifth Big Mac of the day.

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  129. Bel Riose says:
    @Barnard
    It is a biological girl who is taking testosterone. My first thought on reading this was, what kind of degenerate society encourages teenage girls to take up wrestling? The only thing I could find looking out information about how it started is that girl's wrestling is a desperation attempt to save boy's wrestling from Title IX cuts. There were over 11,000 girls competing in high school during the 2014-2015 school year.

    “My first thought on reading this was, what kind of degenerate society encourages teenage girls to take up wrestling?”

    My thought as well. I’ve always thought that a woman who engages in masculine combat sports (wrestling, boxing, MMA, etc.) either (i) had a screw loose somewhere, (ii) participated in such activities not out of a healthy desire for competition but solely to be a special unique little snowflake and and feed her ego (how many thousands of “Girl Pins Boy” videos are there on YouTube?) or (ii) had a father who didn’t have any sons and were pushed into the sport.

    Or all three.

    It’s definitely a sign of a degenerate society though: kind of like Rome right before the collapse, when female gladiators fought in the Arena.

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  130. @Marina
    I have more autonomy as a stay at home mom than I ever did as an employee. The toddler is needy and clingy and all the rest, but crucially she's subordinate to me and she can't fire me if she's unhappy. I've had more time to read/engage in hobbies/keep my preferred hours since leaving the labor market. Also, my husband is very fond of me, so he's tolerant of slip ups in a way a boss isn't.

    It's not the lack of autonomy that makes being a SAHM hard. It's the social isolation and low status. The day to day work of most jobs suck, but if you have a white collar career, you get to dress up in nice outfits and engage in stimulating social interaction. I get treated by a lot of women like staying home with a child means I'm some kind of moron. Fix that, and staying home becomes a lot more attractive to women.

    Marina, Mitt Romney’s wife Ann was slammed as never having a job, even though she raised five children and Michelle Obama was praised as a symbol of working womanhood, even though she failed in her short career and was basically a well supported stay at home mom. Megaphone.

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  131. @Marina
    I have more autonomy as a stay at home mom than I ever did as an employee. The toddler is needy and clingy and all the rest, but crucially she's subordinate to me and she can't fire me if she's unhappy. I've had more time to read/engage in hobbies/keep my preferred hours since leaving the labor market. Also, my husband is very fond of me, so he's tolerant of slip ups in a way a boss isn't.

    It's not the lack of autonomy that makes being a SAHM hard. It's the social isolation and low status. The day to day work of most jobs suck, but if you have a white collar career, you get to dress up in nice outfits and engage in stimulating social interaction. I get treated by a lot of women like staying home with a child means I'm some kind of moron. Fix that, and staying home becomes a lot more attractive to women.

    I was a SAHM for about 12 years, now I work part-time. you need to network with other moms pretty much exclusively. Career women have no idea what’s involved and are likely spending much of their earnings on the status clothing and lunches that they crave.

    In fact, you should go full mommy and have 5 kids. move to the burbs, get an SUV, have raucous play dates at your home and cook up big feasts. The other moms will hold you in awe and the career women will fade from you like a bad case of acne.

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  132. @Harry Baldwin
    Nobody starves to death in the West unless they are overtaken by alcoholism or drug addiction.

    Listening to the radio, I frequently hear PSAs about the "food insecurity" that grips America, the people who aren't sure where their next meal is coming from, and a new charity that sends underprivileged schoolchildren home with a backpack of meals so they can make it through the weekend. And yet it's unusual to see a skinny person in this country, especially a black one. The current argument is that you can have food insecurity and be morbidly obese at the same time.

    Harry, They want you to feel guilty because your family is fed, as if you took the food out of some waif’s mouth to feed your kids. Years ago I did promotional work for a food broker and we used “Cause Marketing”, that is, making our products known by charitable work in the community. The company would make 10 ton donations of product to food banks in various cities and I would arrange for press coverage. The food banks looked like food distribution warehouses for Krogers or Giant Eagle. Chicago’s food depository cost $35million, if I remember correctly. There is a farm attraction near here and I love to play farmer. They have tours for school kids. This fall, three Buffalo Public School buses rolled up, full size buses, and fewer than twenty kids got off the 3 buses. There were however, more than 60 sack lunches unloaded for the kids, their three teachers and three aides. The uneaten lunches were left to be discarded.

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  133. @Tiny Duck
    I don't see how this is a problem

    Only the best of us should be getting married

    TD, and that is why you will remain single .

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  134. @Corvinus
    "The crowd I work with is entirely separate. Perhaps you’ll like to add “young Christian conservative men” to an additional slur list. Please do. It’ll help push them further away from your “moderation.”"

    First, not all or most young Christian conservative men believe in this "women are subservient to men". Second, you best take heed to young Christian conservative women on the matter when it comes to their men endorsing Trump.

    "You failed the ultimate test life throws at politicians and religious leaders: You made a choice to protect your power at the cost of the people, at the cost of women, and the future civility of our culture. The religious people mentioned above, and others like them, have undermined their own faith and cheapened their words. Moreover, they have misrepresented the Christian faith before a watching secular world."

    http://thefederalist.com/2016/10/10/supporting-trump-conservative-men-abandon-conservative-women/

    "It speaks incredibly of the bubble that you’ve managed to isolate yourself into."

    "But there are obvious consequences of forgotten and underutilized males, who by the way, are certainly improving their bodies."

    I'll wait for the movie to come out.

    "But of course, you seem to have an adorable assumption that the entire group of the disaffected consists of skinny basement dwellers. A common assessment, I’ve found."

    I submitted a known fact that the loudest group of disaffected men to specific groups. Young Christian conservative men are NOT part of that crowd. MGTOW's and the manosphere are the ones who constantly complain about the lack of "proper" female prospects. Your disdain ought to be directed toward Heartiste, a middle aged man who is unmarried and has no white children. He promotes the "pump and dump" lifestyle that obviously opposes the values of young Christian conservative men.

    "A favorite habit of liberals like you is to obfuscate the issue – but its meaningless."

    You offered one data point based on a survey consisting of 14 and 15 year olds who lack the world view and nuance of older teens and young adults. This poll is just a wee bit more accurate.

    http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2014/09/25/the-gops-millennial-problem-runs-deep/

    Your disdain ought to be directed toward Heartiste, a middle aged man who is unmarried and has no white children. He promotes the “pump and dump” lifestyle that obviously opposes the values of young Christian conservative men.

    My disdain for destructive liberals like yourself is accurately placed. Don’t worry, it won’t go anywhere even in spite of handfisted attempts to redirect ourselves to splinter.

    Oh and the best thing about HBD, and reality in general? Truth is not a democracy. Sucks for you.

    Bye.

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    • Replies: @Corvinus
    "My disdain for destructive liberals like yourself is accurately placed."

    Except I'm not a liberal. I'm a married white dude who makes his own political and racial decisions.

    "Don’t worry, it won’t go anywhere even in spite of handfisted attempts to redirect ourselves to splinter."

    There's nothing handfisted about you protecting a well-known serial "pumper and dumper", one who is not married and has no white children. I get it. You are working toward the Heartiste Merit Badge. Praytell, what is your religious faith? How would your church view your efforts in supporting a cad?
  135. @Njguy73

    Lots of young men will have no constructive sexual outlets. I see two possibilities: (1) formation of gangs that simply enslave a number of women for sexual release; or (2) pervasive withdrawal into video games and virtual reality.
     
    (3) Support the growth of secular monastical orders where young men with no constructive sexual outlets can be of service to their communities. Some might grow food, others may produce some non-food goods. Some may be entirely self-supporting, some may be supported by a community, like a Catholic monastery or convent was supported by a parish.

    Njguy73, Yeah, well a lot of those celibate men with no sexual outlet, caused a scandal in the Catholic community, a very deep, hard to remove stain.

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    • Replies: @Njguy73
    So what is to be done with celibate men with no sexual outlet? Federally-mandated classes in Game? Tax breaks for those who choose to transition to female? Send them across the globe to fight wars or to teach English to the Chinese?

    Give me any suggestions. I'm open to all.
    , @Anon
    Don't be an idiot. The percentage of pedophiles in the Church is appreciably lower than in the general population.

    Let's see how "teachers" in a religious tradition that allows them to marry do.

    Also, since the pedos in the clergy were almost entirely gay, doubt women have much to do with it.

  136. @Daniel Chieh
    I'm not absolutely certain, because I've also seen radicalization on the left too. The only absolute loser is the center. But yes, the increasing number of conservative births are hopeful and if hereditary models are true, should gradually swing us toward sanity.

    I think the right is winning when it comes to passion, though. I don't actually believe the left quite understands how many people they are angering, and they honestly seem to be spinning into a singularity where they can't even begin to compromise.

    The far-left wacko birds are increasingly detached from reality, and they do not realize how few of them are on the lunatic fringe. Their ‘day without women’, or whatever they are calling it, is going to flop. I expect every woman who works in my building to report to work that day. I am not sure who is leading this foolish no-hoper, but they don’t seem to appreciate that women have jobs and they have to show up for work every day, and that most of them like it and they can’t and won’t blow off work for some stupid goofball lunatic demonstration. Nothing will happen, they will only demonstrate their irrelevance and stupidity. The media will find other things to report on that day besides another stupid left-wing demonstration that moved <1% of the population. The dnc/communists keep losing elected office seats to Republicans, and they just triple down on stupid. It is remarkable to watch them go all-in on kookiness (ie., you can be a cocker spaniel tomorrow if you identify as such), and destroy their party in the process.

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  137. Njguy73 says:
    @Buffalo Joe
    Njguy73, Yeah, well a lot of those celibate men with no sexual outlet, caused a scandal in the Catholic community, a very deep, hard to remove stain.

    So what is to be done with celibate men with no sexual outlet? Federally-mandated classes in Game? Tax breaks for those who choose to transition to female? Send them across the globe to fight wars or to teach English to the Chinese?

    Give me any suggestions. I’m open to all.

    Read More
  138. Ivy says:

    Long term concerns from the decline of marriage and family include the erasure of a collective cultural awareness and a type of familial capital. That erasure occurs over four-five generations, and the results are seen daily in various unfortunate areas of our country. The Soviet Union tried their little experiment in cultural erasure last century, and that was singularly destructive and barbaric. Visualize a blurry image being photocopied repeatedly on dirty glass in a subpar machine. Image replication quality degrades, similar to how cultural awareness and civilization degrade.

    Imagine what your parents and grandparents and other extended family taught you and your siblings. Now think about what is lost, or never gained to begin with, in a world that denigrates family and community. Strong bonds overcome obstacles, and ignorance of those bonds, or even disdain for such, impose more, different and worse obstacles.

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  139. Njguy73 says:
    @Jefferson
    "I’ve never seen more extreme anti-abortionists than Hispanic women."

    Than why was the march for life anti-abortion march in Washington DC this year Whiter than sour cream. From the images I saw on television the vast majority of the women there were not Hispanic. The vast majority of the women there did not racially look like the women who clean the rooms at the local Comfort Suites and take your order at the local Jack In The Box.

    From the images I saw on television

    Oh, well, there you go. TV always shows everything. The media would never focus on one thing while ignoring something else.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Jefferson
    "Oh, well, there you go. TV always shows everything. The media would never focus on one thing while ignoring something else."

    I have never been to Jamaica, but I have a good idea that it's a Black country based on the images I have seen on television of Jamaica.

    Also the fact that the vast majority of Hispanic women vote for the party of pro-late term abortion on demand, means that being pro-life is not the number 1 most important political priority for Hispanic women.

    , @Jefferson
    "“Oh, well, there you go. TV always shows everything. The media would never focus on one thing while ignoring something else.”

    I have never been to Jamaica, but I have a good idea that it’s a Black country based on the images I have seen on television of Jamaica.

    Also the fact that the vast majority of Hispanic women vote for the party of pro-late term abortion on demand, means that being pro-life is not the number 1 most important political priority for Hispanic women. A politician being pro-abortion has never been a political deal breaker for Hispanic women. Do Democrat in the history of The United States has ever lost the Hispanic female vote in a political race for being pro-abortion.

    Which is not surprising because Hispanic females are not exactly known for being socially Conservative. The biggest sluts at my high school were the Hispanic girls. If you wanted to get laid at my high school you had the highest chance of that happening to you with the Hispanic girls.

    The Hispanic girls at my high school were a lot sluttier than the White Gringa girls and the Asian girls.

    Colin Quinn said he went to a predominantly Puerto Rican middle school in New York City and he joked that the girls there already having sex.

  140. Anon says: • Disclaimer
    @Buffalo Joe
    Njguy73, Yeah, well a lot of those celibate men with no sexual outlet, caused a scandal in the Catholic community, a very deep, hard to remove stain.

    Don’t be an idiot. The percentage of pedophiles in the Church is appreciably lower than in the general population.

    Let’s see how “teachers” in a religious tradition that allows them to marry do.

    Also, since the pedos in the clergy were almost entirely gay, doubt women have much to do with it.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anon
    "Don’t be an idiot. The percentage of pedophiles in the Church is appreciably lower than in the general population."

    I dunno. The requirements of the Catholic Church seems to attract the kind of men who might be homo or pedo.
    , @Buffalo Joe
    Anon, Thanks for calling this devout Catholic an idiot. Pope Benedict defrocked 848 priests for sexual abuse and imposed various censures and penalties on another 2572 priests for sexual abuses and the Church has investigated 3400 reported cases since 2004, but that figure was for Benedict's reign. The Catholic Church in the US has paid out a reported $3 billion to settle sexual abuse cases involving priests, also through Benedict's reign. A pedophile, whether straight or gay is still a pedophile. Get a copy of "God's Bankers" and see the machinations the Church went through to avoid addressing and correcting this shameful stain.
  141. mukat says:
    @Corvinus
    "A softball across the plate for Heartiste. As employment prospects become less and less a deciding factor in the mating market, they are replaced more and more by traits such as caddishness, aloofness, ability to “game”, or other even worse displays of dark triad personality types."

    Not necessarily. Increasing numbers of men who are jobless may become introverts and loners, preferring to keep to themselves and disengage with the general public, including women.

    And here is something Steve conveniently left out. "Although our analysis does not imply that surging import competition from China over the last two decades has been the sole or primary driver of these trends, it highlights that broader declines in the labor market for U.S. males have likely made a substantial contribution—assuming of course that these declines exert qualitatively similar causal effects on marriages, births and household structures as do trade shocks concentrated on manufacturing employment."

    Indeed, assuming. The researchers engaged in correlational research. So while it makes perfect sense that the decline of manufacturing jobs contributes to a man's inability to procure a wife and have children because they are other than desirable "catches", the authors of the study also acknowledge there are other substantial factors at play here. Remember, companies automate to maximize efficiency and reduce costs. It comes as no surprise then when men who do not go to college, enter trade school, or form their own businesses these this particular group will find it more challenging to engage in "family formation".

    Cads can service multiple women, simultaneously or serially. The buggers even seem to enjoy their high productivity. To Heartiste’s point.

    (This analysis lifted from Dalrock).

    Read More
    • Replies: @Corvinus
    "Cads can service multiple women, simultaneously or serially. The buggers even seem to enjoy their high productivity. To Heartiste’s point."

    Is not Dalrock a married Christian with children? If that be the case, should Dalrock be supportive of Heartiste's lifestyle, then Dalrock has lost all credibility.

    Furthermore, if these cads are atheist or agnostic, then it is incumbent upon Christian men to help them see the err of their ways. So, mukat, how are YOU helping Jesus here in this regard?
  142. Jefferson says:
    @Njguy73

    From the images I saw on television
     
    Oh, well, there you go. TV always shows everything. The media would never focus on one thing while ignoring something else.

    “Oh, well, there you go. TV always shows everything. The media would never focus on one thing while ignoring something else.”

    I have never been to Jamaica, but I have a good idea that it’s a Black country based on the images I have seen on television of Jamaica.

    Also the fact that the vast majority of Hispanic women vote for the party of pro-late term abortion on demand, means that being pro-life is not the number 1 most important political priority for Hispanic women.

    Read More
  143. Jefferson says:
    @Njguy73

    From the images I saw on television
     
    Oh, well, there you go. TV always shows everything. The media would never focus on one thing while ignoring something else.

    ““Oh, well, there you go. TV always shows everything. The media would never focus on one thing while ignoring something else.”

    I have never been to Jamaica, but I have a good idea that it’s a Black country based on the images I have seen on television of Jamaica.

    Also the fact that the vast majority of Hispanic women vote for the party of pro-late term abortion on demand, means that being pro-life is not the number 1 most important political priority for Hispanic women. A politician being pro-abortion has never been a political deal breaker for Hispanic women. Do Democrat in the history of The United States has ever lost the Hispanic female vote in a political race for being pro-abortion.

    Which is not surprising because Hispanic females are not exactly known for being socially Conservative. The biggest sluts at my high school were the Hispanic girls. If you wanted to get laid at my high school you had the highest chance of that happening to you with the Hispanic girls.

    The Hispanic girls at my high school were a lot sluttier than the White Gringa girls and the Asian girls.

    Colin Quinn said he went to a predominantly Puerto Rican middle school in New York City and he joked that the girls there already having sex.

    Read More
  144. Anon says: • Disclaimer
    @Anon
    Don't be an idiot. The percentage of pedophiles in the Church is appreciably lower than in the general population.

    Let's see how "teachers" in a religious tradition that allows them to marry do.

    Also, since the pedos in the clergy were almost entirely gay, doubt women have much to do with it.

    “Don’t be an idiot. The percentage of pedophiles in the Church is appreciably lower than in the general population.”

    I dunno. The requirements of the Catholic Church seems to attract the kind of men who might be homo or pedo.

    Read More
  145. ( OT; Politico has a new article about “Ever Falling Journalistic-Market Value of Men with a Triple Parentheses Muscular Integrity Disorder.” )

    Everyone should read this Kremliniciously hilarious infotainment account ( aka Flake News) of Justice Bader-Meinhof’s ability to Supreme the Nation for the next 1000 years:

    “…When Johnson informed Ginsburg he would be leading me through her workout, she told him, “I hope he makes it through.”

    The strength exercises started with a machine bench press, where Ginsburg normally puts up 70 pounds. From there it was leg curls and leg presses, chest flies and lat pull-downs, all on machines, while stretching the muscle groups being exercised in between sets.
    I performed three sets of seated rows and three sets of standing rows.

    It was so many rows I asked Johnson, “What about Wade?

    “Justice Ginsburg does 10 pushups and she does not do the so-called ‘girl pushups,’”
    explained Georgetown Law Professor Mary Hartnett during an appearance with the justice earlier this month at the Virginia Military Institute.

    “She does not use her knees.And then she stretches back for a very brief pause and she does 10 more.”

    Ginsburg also performs one-legged squats, an exercise that illustrated just how intimate the trainer-justice relationship could get.

    While he held my hands, Johnson instructed me to raise one leg in the air between his legs and to stand up from seated position on a bench using the other leg until I was standing, practically embracing him, 10 times for each leg, three times.

    This was not easy, and caused me to look at Johnson — who has jumped out of helicopters, planes and a hot air balloon in the service of this country — in a way he found deeply unsettling.

    He asked me not kick him in the groin, something that, for the record, Ginsburg has never done.”

    http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/02/rbg-ruth-bader-ginsburg-workout-personal-trainer-elena-kagan-stephen-breyer-214821

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  146. @The Great Destroyer
    This stuff was covered by bloggers 8 years ago. These guys are late to the game.

    When are we going to see the paper "Numbers guys on Wall St, they don't really produce anything but we pay them a lot anyway"

    The index fund guys are excused. They created a way for the rest of us to store value.

    ‘When are we going to see the paper “Numbers guys on Wall St, they don’t really produce anything but we pay them a lot anyway”’

    From talking to some friends who work in the hedge fund industry, I strongly suspect any alpha they deliver is largely a function of (1) latency (getting orders in first) and (2) tax efficiency.

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  147. @scrivener3
    Increased productivity makes people richer not poorer (because fewer workers are needed). People do not want to work, they want what work gets them. They want something that they can trade to get things they value from other productive people.

    Many of the successful doctors in my area have non-working wives who dedicate themselves to child rearing and managing the household. Maybe we will become rich enough as a society that most women can stay home, raise children and enjoy leisure like daytime tennis matches and brunches. With a quarter of the people voluntarily leaving the workforce wages would be higher for those who do work full time.

    Scrivener, your last paragraph sounds like the world in a science-fiction story. I did not write that to sound snarky, so let me explain.

    Automation and just higher productivity in general of course make the world richer (thought of as an accumulated quantity over time), or at least wealth can be created more cheaply (thought of as a rate)*, this is true. The discussions here and elsewhere about who gets this increase in wealth and/or what governments can/should do to spread out the wealth are getting more interesting and important as we can see the world going toward automation so quickly. Most of what people have to say about ways to equalize the rewards are kind of disgusting to a libertarian. However, there doesn’t seem to be a good free market way out of this because of the amount and type of people in the world and the trends thereof.

    Back to the science-fiction story, the future told by optimistic stories, in the 70′s and 80′s, during my enjoyment of this literature, looked more like a sparsely-populated world (along with other worlds we we might want to hang out) where we got around in flying machines, lived in our hand-picked beautiful environments far away from our fellow man until we wanted a change, worked a few hours a day at the work we loved, and worked on cool intellectual projects of all kinds with our copious spare time (due to the automation). It sounded great to me, though I never thought that much of the automation would come in my lifetime. That was wrong on my part. What was wrong on the part of the science-fiction writers however, was one big assumption about the people in this future world.

    The future people were all intelligent, and even 50 years ago, one might still rightly assume that the intelligent people would get ahead in the world and produce the bulk of the people of this bright future. Well, I should say “rightly” only if one didn’t see the welfare state and the degradation of the culture coming. This assumption was way, way off. The bulk of the population of this world is not the intelligent and well-educated crowd, we all know that by now.

    Scrivener, your vision of the doctors and other professional’s lives sounds good, but what about the rest of the population. The problem is that lower intelligence people will not make good use of their spare time. I don’t mean just won’t make productive use, I mean, basically, will be up to no good. “Idle hands are the devil’s work”, they say. Or, I guess they can all watch 12 hours of TV a day, eat tasty junk food and just veg-out basically (“bread and circuses”), but I can see that devolving to barely humans at some point. That is, unless the elites of that “society” encouraged in some way (additives in the junk food?) low reproduction to slowly transform society into that in the sci-fi books. Maybe that last thing is the big plan. Possibly this post is just nonsense due to an overdose of zerohedge comments.

    * Although peak oil aficionados and the like would differ on this with the valid point, and rightly so, that for real manufacturing (not creation of software and intellectual property) and mining and farming, there is no getting around the amount of energy needed for this work. Granted, productivity improvements can mean less energy is wasted in the processes involved, but there is a lower limit.

    Read More
    • Replies: @yaqub the mad scientist
    The problem is that lower intelligence people will not make good use of their spare time. I don’t mean just won’t make productive use, I mean, basically, will be up to no good.

    Now's a good time to get ahead of the curve and invest in Stoner Debris/Globocrud: phone cards, incense, rolling papers, pharmaceuticals, tire rims, candy, and bongs.

  148. @dc.sunsets
    Good luck, Daniel, in dialog with Corvinus. She never met a modern trope she wouldn't defend.

    My view is that here, near the apogee of the greatest Popular Delusion in recorded history, lots of cultural and social stuff is grossly off kilter.

    It will get back on track after a period of difficulty. In the meantime, the key is not doing what everyone else is doing. But you already know that.

    She still claims to be a moderate. One of the most entertaining aspects of her defense.

    Personally, I do agree that things will gradually get back to normalcy. I’ve had the pleasure of being part of a close-knit group before, and I realize the sheer sense of calm and harmony that can bring; its a large reason why I work with young men now to help them against the forces of atomization and help them find a certain fraternal unity.

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  149. Ed says:
    @Jim Don Bob
    There was an article recently that said something like 20% of food stamp money was used to buy soda pop. But it will be a cold day in Hell before Coke and Pepsi are off the approved food stamp list.

    Some liberal wonks support banning food stamp soda purchases. Maine wants approval to ban soda & candy from allowable food stamp lists.

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  150. @Marina
    I have more autonomy as a stay at home mom than I ever did as an employee. The toddler is needy and clingy and all the rest, but crucially she's subordinate to me and she can't fire me if she's unhappy. I've had more time to read/engage in hobbies/keep my preferred hours since leaving the labor market. Also, my husband is very fond of me, so he's tolerant of slip ups in a way a boss isn't.

    It's not the lack of autonomy that makes being a SAHM hard. It's the social isolation and low status. The day to day work of most jobs suck, but if you have a white collar career, you get to dress up in nice outfits and engage in stimulating social interaction. I get treated by a lot of women like staying home with a child means I'm some kind of moron. Fix that, and staying home becomes a lot more attractive to women.

    Oh, definitely. I think that SAHM used to have an entire community, but that has been gradually lost over time. My wife has been trying to rebuild something through online communities such as Red Pill Wives in Reddit, though.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Bill P
    Online won't work. These communities have to be strictly offline. However, the theory behind them can be promulgated online. I've been working on it for a few months, but it's taken me a while to find a schedule that I can work with because my youngest is still under preschool age and we're on our own as far as childcare is concerned.
  151. @Achmed E. Newman
    Scrivener, your last paragraph sounds like the world in a science-fiction story. I did not write that to sound snarky, so let me explain.

    Automation and just higher productivity in general of course make the world richer (thought of as an accumulated quantity over time), or at least wealth can be created more cheaply (thought of as a rate)*, this is true. The discussions here and elsewhere about who gets this increase in wealth and/or what governments can/should do to spread out the wealth are getting more interesting and important as we can see the world going toward automation so quickly. Most of what people have to say about ways to equalize the rewards are kind of disgusting to a libertarian. However, there doesn't seem to be a good free market way out of this because of the amount and type of people in the world and the trends thereof.

    Back to the science-fiction story, the future told by optimistic stories, in the 70's and 80's, during my enjoyment of this literature, looked more like a sparsely-populated world (along with other worlds we we might want to hang out) where we got around in flying machines, lived in our hand-picked beautiful environments far away from our fellow man until we wanted a change, worked a few hours a day at the work we loved, and worked on cool intellectual projects of all kinds with our copious spare time (due to the automation). It sounded great to me, though I never thought that much of the automation would come in my lifetime. That was wrong on my part. What was wrong on the part of the science-fiction writers however, was one big assumption about the people in this future world.

    The future people were all intelligent, and even 50 years ago, one might still rightly assume that the intelligent people would get ahead in the world and produce the bulk of the people of this bright future. Well, I should say "rightly" only if one didn't see the welfare state and the degradation of the culture coming. This assumption was way, way off. The bulk of the population of this world is not the intelligent and well-educated crowd, we all know that by now.

    Scrivener, your vision of the doctors and other professional's lives sounds good, but what about the rest of the population. The problem is that lower intelligence people will not make good use of their spare time. I don't mean just won't make productive use, I mean, basically, will be up to no good. "Idle hands are the devil's work", they say. Or, I guess they can all watch 12 hours of TV a day, eat tasty junk food and just veg-out basically ("bread and circuses"), but I can see that devolving to barely humans at some point. That is, unless the elites of that "society" encouraged in some way (additives in the junk food?) low reproduction to slowly transform society into that in the sci-fi books. Maybe that last thing is the big plan. Possibly this post is just nonsense due to an overdose of zerohedge comments.






    * Although peak oil aficionados and the like would differ on this with the valid point, and rightly so, that for real manufacturing (not creation of software and intellectual property) and mining and farming, there is no getting around the amount of energy needed for this work. Granted, productivity improvements can mean less energy is wasted in the processes involved, but there is a lower limit.

    The problem is that lower intelligence people will not make good use of their spare time. I don’t mean just won’t make productive use, I mean, basically, will be up to no good.

    Now’s a good time to get ahead of the curve and invest in Stoner Debris/Globocrud: phone cards, incense, rolling papers, pharmaceuticals, tire rims, candy, and bongs.

    Read More
  152. @Melendwyr
    We're going to collapse anyway. Does it matter if it happens sooner, or later? Seriously - is there any benefit to postponing?

    We’re going to collapse anyway.

    Only if otherwise sane people take leave of their senses and believe you.

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  153. @Daniel Chieh
    I don't think women - or men for that matter - do all that much conscious evaluating of anything, to be honest. There's decent evidence that most of our actions are more or less unconscious, with the conscious mind serving actively as a lawyer to justify it later. I remember choosing between dating a teenager with problems and a career woman; I tallied it out logically and I should have been with the latter. Obviously, logic proved pretty meaningless, as I ended up marrying the former(the only thing I concluded was in my weighed logic, "youth" was the heaviest variable).

    Women who marry for comfort and safety likely never think of it in such terms, but rather interpret it as "reduced anxiety" and "heightened sexual attraction."

    The Pill most likely is just making women more spastic overall.

    Daniel, it was interesting the way you put that. It sound to me that your conscious mind, telling you to date the career woman was actually just your PC-brainwashed lobe, while your unconscious mind knew the truth of what you wanted and SHOULD HAVE WANTED in a woman. The young ones are sexually attractive for a good reason. Whatever you see, and the visuals are EVERYTHING, is nature’s advertisement of that body’s ability to make children. We men were made and/or evolved to have this desire, and this desire is good for the continuation of our species.

    I think you did the right thing, but this is based on not knowing “the problems” of the younger one. Your body and mind were responding as programmed by nature, and people need to get it straight in their heads that it’s not nice to fool Mother Nature!

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    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    I'm pretty happy with the decision I made in retrospect :)
  154. @Discard
    I think a relatively small percent of men would want to return to 48 hour weeks raking slag in a foundry, but they were better off doing that than doing nothing. And we got nice metal castings out of the deal. From today's womens' work, we get useless paperwork. They could just as well do their gossiping at the supermarket or the village well, and we'd have better meals and healthier children in the bargain.

    Great post, Discard – I agree 100%.

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  155. SFG says:
    @dc.sunsets
    Good luck, Daniel, in dialog with Corvinus. She never met a modern trope she wouldn't defend.

    My view is that here, near the apogee of the greatest Popular Delusion in recorded history, lots of cultural and social stuff is grossly off kilter.

    It will get back on track after a period of difficulty. In the meantime, the key is not doing what everyone else is doing. But you already know that.

    Anyone ever prove Corvinus is female? Producing lengthy posts on an ideologically hostile site that attempt to use logical argument (whether you think Corvinus succeeds or not) seems to be more of a guy thing. His arguments almost always rely on general principle and lack the personal color you see from female posters left and right.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Charles Erwin Wilson

    Anyone ever prove Corvinus is female?
     
    Not even Corvinus can prove that. Even if he wanted to.
  156. @barkie
    The biggest factor in "the failing marriage market value of men" is the general decline of men's ability to retain and control their earnings thanks to taxation, divorce law and redistributionary social welfare.

    Women instinctively know that their fertility is their biggest single social asset. They fanatically defend the ability to "control their bodies". The equivalent for men is their ability to "control the rewards of their labor", of which they have failed miserably over the past half century.

    Comment of the decade there.

    (but, that’s just my opinion – what do I know, I don’t even watch the Oscars)

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  157. snorlax says:
    @Ed
    Some liberal wonks support banning food stamp soda purchases. Maine wants approval to ban soda & candy from allowable food stamp lists.


    https://twitter.com/wgme/status/832662483441561600

    Gov. LePage is a conservative Republican.

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  158. @The Anti-Gnostic
    The growing obsolescence of menial labor and increasingly, human data entry and recordkeeping, is an under-remarked problem. We already divert people into way more schooling than they need, and support a lot of useless sinecures (see, again, universities). The retail interface is slowly automating, which is why everybody you deal with as a customer is generally some underpaid, overworked, low-IQ functionary. After the "name-tag jobs" disappear, what then? We will have millions of people with minimal value on the open labor market.

    We aren't going to let them (me? us?) starve. Hell, we grow enough food to throw a lot of it away. Productivity gains are gobbling up what would otherwise be manifesting as monetary inflation from all the transfer payments. This process, we are assured by the Austrian school, can only result in a massive crash and contraction of the economy back to the level supported by prior savings. But fiat money has weathered a long series of busts and come back each time. My father reminds me people were saying the same thing about the dollar when he was young.

    So what is this undiscovered country in which we find ourselves? Nobody starves to death in the West unless they are overtaken by alcoholism or drug addiction. Even the Third World is finding the resources, either native or imported, to support an unprecedented population boom.

    Has Scarcity been banished for all practical purposes? Are we now at Satiety, again, for all practical purposes? We seemingly can afford to pay young women to have a couple of children without the bother of selecting a reliable breadwinner. I'm not sure what the young men are doing but, being men, they generally find something.

    If we're at Satiety then the logical next step is Universal Basic Income. Mass democracy is not compatible with UBI.

    If we’re at Satiety then the logical next step is Universal Basic Income. Mass democracy is not compatible with UBI.

    There are some strong arguments suggesting that UBI (a citizens’ dividend) may be the way to insure democracy by preventing centralization of wealth.

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  159. Old fogey says:
    @The Anti-Gnostic
    The growing obsolescence of menial labor and increasingly, human data entry and recordkeeping, is an under-remarked problem. We already divert people into way more schooling than they need, and support a lot of useless sinecures (see, again, universities). The retail interface is slowly automating, which is why everybody you deal with as a customer is generally some underpaid, overworked, low-IQ functionary. After the "name-tag jobs" disappear, what then? We will have millions of people with minimal value on the open labor market.

    We aren't going to let them (me? us?) starve. Hell, we grow enough food to throw a lot of it away. Productivity gains are gobbling up what would otherwise be manifesting as monetary inflation from all the transfer payments. This process, we are assured by the Austrian school, can only result in a massive crash and contraction of the economy back to the level supported by prior savings. But fiat money has weathered a long series of busts and come back each time. My father reminds me people were saying the same thing about the dollar when he was young.

    So what is this undiscovered country in which we find ourselves? Nobody starves to death in the West unless they are overtaken by alcoholism or drug addiction. Even the Third World is finding the resources, either native or imported, to support an unprecedented population boom.

    Has Scarcity been banished for all practical purposes? Are we now at Satiety, again, for all practical purposes? We seemingly can afford to pay young women to have a couple of children without the bother of selecting a reliable breadwinner. I'm not sure what the young men are doing but, being men, they generally find something.

    If we're at Satiety then the logical next step is Universal Basic Income. Mass democracy is not compatible with UBI.

    “If we are at satiety” – then we should not be expecting – or even wanting – everyone to be earning a salary. We could easily return to the good old days of family life when children were taken care of by a mother who was in turn taken care of by a husband who earned a salary and who lived his life mainly to ensure that his wife and children were comfortable.

    I remember the 1950s well. They were good times. In our working class home in Crown Heights and later in Queens my father left for work in his luncheonette every morning at 6 am. My mother raised me and my younger brother, and only considered working for a salary when my brother went to school and my high school hours enabled me to watch over him when he returned home. My mother was the only woman working in our neighborhood, and it was clear that if I ever needed help for any reason while she was away I could call on any of the neighboring mothers for help. No one was rich, but no one was poor. From my perspective, I don’t see how encouraging masses of women to give up their concentration on home and family for mainly meaningless work in offices and shops was a boon for society. It certainly has not been good for children.

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  160. Old fogey says:
    @MBlanc46
    Many of the young women feel much better about themselves.

    Most young women that I have known over the years since the sexual revolution are searching for husbands and not finding any. This does not make them feel better about themselves. Not having a “normal” family is not “empowering,” it makes you lonely and sad.

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  161. @another fred
    In earlier times the value of population to a state was for one of two purposes (1) the production of taxable goods (and taxable general commerce as a multiplier of basic production), and (2) bearing arms.

    Today, according to Modern Monetary Theory, the value of the people is to spend money which the state issues and then taxes. Modern Monetary Theorists seem to have never heard of entropy.

    In the not-too-distant future the "state" is going to realize that non-productive people are a drag.

    Things will get interesting then.

    Today, according to Modern Monetary Theory, the value of the people is to spend money which the state issues and then taxes. Modern Monetary Theorists seem to have never heard of entropy.

    In the not-too-distant future the “state” is going to realize that non-productive people are a drag.

    Yeah, I still don’t get it. How does a large population consuming lots of stuff make the rentier class wealthier than an economy in which the population is smaller and the rentiers get 100% instead of 10% of the value of the same amount of wasted petroleum?

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  162. J says:

    Let’s start by being honest with our self. Latin immigrants work harder for less money, that’s good for the economy. China sells us good stuff cheaper we can produce, that’s good for the economy. The problem is what to do with the proles that are unable or unwilling to compete. The best is to create tasks they can do, jobs that add some value, like planting roadside trees, creating parks and fighting erosion. Drafting them to “fight” foreign wars is the most efficient way to keep the occupied and the society, healthy.

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    • Troll: The Anti-Gnostic
    • Replies: @Bill P

    Let’s start by being honest with our self. Latin immigrants work harder for less money, that’s good for the economy.
     
    No, they don't. I had my first construction job at age 18 (1990s). The Mexicans who picked up our scrap would drink beers in the alley during lunch. I couldn't get away with that then, and I can't now.

    The one advantage to Mexican labor is they can't easily leave an employer for a higher status job. They're stuck in the grey economy because of their legal status. For employers, that's pretty important. Having that kind of leverage over your employees is worth a lot. It's the same reason it isn't that hard to find a labor job as a felon. It's always been that way here in the US, but I wouldn't expect most Unz readers to know that, nor would I blame them for their lack of knowledge on the subject. But really, an employer at a construction company would rather hire an illegal alien or a felon than a university grad for anything that doesn't require a degree.

    So if you're a young man who's out of work and looking for decent pay as a laborer, leave out any college education in your application, because it won't help you a bit.
    , @Jefferson
    "Let’s start by being honest with our self. Latin immigrants work harder"

    They work hard but Hispanics don't work smart. All of that hard work for nothing because on average Hispanics still have a higher poverty rate than White Gringos and Asians in America.

    A Guatemalan or Mexican can work 12 hours everyday and still take home a pathetic paycheck.

    , @Opinionator

    Let’s start by being honest with our self. Latin immigrants work harder for less money, that’s good for the economy. China sells us good stuff cheaper we can produce, that’s good for the economy.
     
    You are correct that many hispanics work harder, often for less money. You are correct that China sells us good stuff cheaper this we can produce (I would call it adequate stuff, but for the sake of argument let's call it good).

    However these temptations are not in the best interests of the American people. (I do not know what is this "the economy" of which you speak.)
  163. @SFG
    Anyone ever prove Corvinus is female? Producing lengthy posts on an ideologically hostile site that attempt to use logical argument (whether you think Corvinus succeeds or not) seems to be more of a guy thing. His arguments almost always rely on general principle and lack the personal color you see from female posters left and right.

    Anyone ever prove Corvinus is female?

    Not even Corvinus can prove that. Even if he wanted to.

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  164. @Hapalong Cassidy
    A softball across the plate for Heartiste. As employment prospects become less and less a deciding factor in the mating market, they are replaced more and more by traits such as caddishness, aloofness, ability to "game", or other even worse displays of dark triad personality types.

    There is no such thing as a general dating market. There are various markets determined by income, class, ideology, lifestyle, age, personality factors etc. Hence caddish behaviour may be on the rise among some sections of the dating market, but may have little bearing on other markets. For example, most career women want a career man, most liberal SJW women want a like-minded liberal man.

    Heartiste only analyses one dating market – the market for young urban party girls. This is a market with a high percentage of females to males and a correspondingly high percentage of cads.

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  165. @Luke Lea

    "the China shock in trade and the Mexico shock in immigration were similar."
     
    True, and they had "synergy" -- Nafta opened up Mexico to US exports of corn, which made it impossible for Mexican dirt farmers to support themselves; then Gatt following Nafta took the factories that went to Mexico (low wages) to China (lower wages).

    It is said that changing technology (aka new labor-saving technologies) is even more important than trade and immigration. So we ship the few labor-intensive jobs unaffected overseas, adding insult to injury.

    To address automation I'm surprised there isn't more (or any) talk about the need for new statutory restrictions on the hours of labor, which is how we dealt with that problem in the past. Why not a family-friendly six-hour day (with triple pay for overtime to show we mean business)?

    To address automation I’m surprised there isn’t more (or any) talk about the need for new statutory restrictions on the hours of labor, which is how we dealt with that problem in the past. Why not a family-friendly six-hour day (with triple pay for overtime to show we mean business)?

    Are your thirty (30) hour per week employees going to get full healthcare coverage?

    Are they supposed to receive the same weekly pay as the firm’s erstwhile forty hour per week employees?

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    • Replies: @Luke Lea

    To address automation I’m surprised there isn’t more (or any) talk about the need for new statutory restrictions on the hours of labor, which is how we dealt with that problem in the past. Why not a family-friendly six-hour day (with triple pay for overtime to show we mean business)?

    Are your thirty (30) hour per week employees going to get full healthcare coverage?

    Are they supposed to receive the same weekly pay as the firm’s erstwhile forty hour per week employees?
     
    If all four steps were taken they would make more money than they do now or did back in the 1970's, since GDP per capita is much higher now. After all, American standards of living did not collapse when we went from 12 hour day to 8 hour day last century. As long output per man hour is up, and average GDP per capita is up, the potential is there.

    As for medical insurance, our healthcare system is eating us alive and I don't have the answer. I do know that every penny spent on healthcare (1 out of every 6 dollars) is somebody's income, for which they will fight like crazy to keep. Will be like a civil war almost to cut that in half.
  166. @Ed
    Some liberal wonks support banning food stamp soda purchases. Maine wants approval to ban soda & candy from allowable food stamp lists.


    https://twitter.com/wgme/status/832662483441561600

    He’s right.

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  167. @Melendwyr
    I think there's a problem with the end of the last sentence, Mr. Sailer.

    I remember there being speculation that women were most interested in provider-type men when they were ovulating, and that the Pill might be altering the preferences of women in ways they weren't aware of. I have to wonder - to what degree do women today consciously evaluate men in terms of providing a comfortable and safe environment for children? Gold-digging obviously occurs, but that happens in both genders, and has more to do with greed than true mate selection to my mind.

    I think there’s a problem with the end of the last sentence, Mr. Sailer.

    I remember there being speculation that women were most interested in provider-type men when they were ovulating, and that the Pill might be altering the preferences of women in ways they weren’t aware of.

    I believe it was the other way around.

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  168. Old fogey says:
    @Marina
    I have more autonomy as a stay at home mom than I ever did as an employee. The toddler is needy and clingy and all the rest, but crucially she's subordinate to me and she can't fire me if she's unhappy. I've had more time to read/engage in hobbies/keep my preferred hours since leaving the labor market. Also, my husband is very fond of me, so he's tolerant of slip ups in a way a boss isn't.

    It's not the lack of autonomy that makes being a SAHM hard. It's the social isolation and low status. The day to day work of most jobs suck, but if you have a white collar career, you get to dress up in nice outfits and engage in stimulating social interaction. I get treated by a lot of women like staying home with a child means I'm some kind of moron. Fix that, and staying home becomes a lot more attractive to women.

    I am a woman and I have an unfortunate mantra: “Women are stupid.” I know that I’m not supposed to think this and I know for sure that I’m not supposed to say it but it is indeed true.

    It was women themselves who turned against each other under the “feminist” creed who suddenly decided that women who were fortunate enough to be able to do so and who preferred spending their time ensuring that their husband and children were healthy and lived comfortable lives were less capable and less worthy than women who turned their babies over to strangers during the day simply for the sake of earning extra money by doing inconsequential work in offices and retail settings. They did so after their “consciousnesses” were “raised” by staring at their vaginas, being instructed in how awful their husbands were, and listening to speeches about how wonderful it would be if they were “empowered.”

    I was foolish enough that when I first heard the word “feminism” I thought that these new outspoken women wanted to hail feminine characteristics – how wrong I was.

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    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
    I've always liked your posts, Fogey (only been on a here a few months), but I didn't know you were a woman. Based on your first paragraph, would you agree then, that woman should not be allowed to vote, because that would make 3 of us, you me, and Ann Coulter?
  169. @Barnard
    It is a biological girl who is taking testosterone. My first thought on reading this was, what kind of degenerate society encourages teenage girls to take up wrestling? The only thing I could find looking out information about how it started is that girl's wrestling is a desperation attempt to save boy's wrestling from Title IX cuts. There were over 11,000 girls competing in high school during the 2014-2015 school year.

    It is a biological girl who is taking testosterone. My first thought on reading this was, what kind of degenerate society encourages teenage girls to take up wrestling? The only thing I could find looking out information about how it started is that girl’s wrestling is a desperation attempt to save boy’s wrestling from Title IX cuts. There were over 11,000 girls competing in high school during the 2014-2015 school year.

    I’d love to see Sessions turn this around. Every bit of Title IX enforcement is 100% bullshit. And one could use the same rationale to shut down every school whose enrollment is at least 50.01% women.

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  170. Western civilization committing slow suicide on account of materialism and greed, dragging down the rest of the world with it.

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  171. @Intelligent Dasein
    Not cranky, just trying to be succinct; otherwise I could go on and on about this.

    But one of things that really does aggravate me is the recent (within the last year or so) upsurge in the popularity of the automation meme. Even Drudge and Zero Hedge have really gotten in on the act. If it's not self-driving cars and teller-less banks, it's robots and AI are going to eliminate half of all jobs by 2030.

    No, they aren't.

    The low hanging fruits of automation have already been picked. Any further attempts to automate economic activity are going to run in to a wall of diminishing returns. It amounts to setting up a Rube Goldberg contraption to perform a task that a human being can actually do cheaper and with less hassle. The one-off windfall accruing to stockholders from the elimination of a company's current workforce is actually a form of liquidation. This is predatory capitalism that strip-mines the accumulated wealth of society, leaving desolation in its wake.

    Furthermore, any dreams of an automated world are not compatible with the growing trend of economic nationalism and beggar-thy-neighbor trade policies we are witnessing. Automation requires an abundance of computers, chips, software, and programmers---all currently available on the cheap due to globalism. When the trade wars begin in earnest, tech is going to become a rare and expensive commodity that will have to be allocated sparingly. The whole idea of an army of robotic burger-flippers at McD's is going to be seen for the moronic extravagance that it is.

    His arguments almost always rely on general principle and lack the personal color you see from female posters left and right.

    Corvinus’ posts are garrulous but never incisive, a trait one often associates with Progressive-minded women.

    I think that Corvinus is a Corvina.

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  172. Bill P says:
    @Daniel Chieh
    Oh, definitely. I think that SAHM used to have an entire community, but that has been gradually lost over time. My wife has been trying to rebuild something through online communities such as Red Pill Wives in Reddit, though.

    Online won’t work. These communities have to be strictly offline. However, the theory behind them can be promulgated online. I’ve been working on it for a few months, but it’s taken me a while to find a schedule that I can work with because my youngest is still under preschool age and we’re on our own as far as childcare is concerned.

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  173. @Marina
    I have more autonomy as a stay at home mom than I ever did as an employee. The toddler is needy and clingy and all the rest, but crucially she's subordinate to me and she can't fire me if she's unhappy. I've had more time to read/engage in hobbies/keep my preferred hours since leaving the labor market. Also, my husband is very fond of me, so he's tolerant of slip ups in a way a boss isn't.

    It's not the lack of autonomy that makes being a SAHM hard. It's the social isolation and low status. The day to day work of most jobs suck, but if you have a white collar career, you get to dress up in nice outfits and engage in stimulating social interaction. I get treated by a lot of women like staying home with a child means I'm some kind of moron. Fix that, and staying home becomes a lot more attractive to women.

    I get treated by a lot of women like staying home with a child means I’m some kind of moron. Fix that, and staying home becomes a lot more attractive to women.

    Move to Texas. The working moms envy the SAHMs and aspire to become one.

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  174. Old fogey says:
    @Discard
    I think a relatively small percent of men would want to return to 48 hour weeks raking slag in a foundry, but they were better off doing that than doing nothing. And we got nice metal castings out of the deal. From today's womens' work, we get useless paperwork. They could just as well do their gossiping at the supermarket or the village well, and we'd have better meals and healthier children in the bargain.

    Absolutely true, Discard, which is not a suitable “nom de Steve” for someone with such useful views.

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  175. … Automation requires an abundance of computers, chips, software, and programmers—all currently available on the cheap due to globalism. When the trade wars begin in earnest, tech is going to become a rare and expensive commodity that will have to be allocated sparingly.

    Mr. Intelligent D. reveals himself to be a Ludd, a free free free trader, and an open borders advocate, all three?

    Please explain why computers, chips, and software cannot be made and sold for affordable prices in the USA? Did foreigners in foreign places invent and manufacture the Apple II computer and other affordable digital developments of the 1970′s and 1980′s? Were microprocessors and other computer chips imported back then? Not much.

    If automation is the wave of the future, won’t cheap foreign labor become less important to the cost of goods in America?

    Your argument for the cheapness and braininess of foreign labor is also an argument for more
    H1-B workers. Is that what you want?

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    • Replies: @Intelligent Dasein

    Mr. Intelligent D. reveals himself to be a Ludd, a free free free trader, and an open borders advocate, all three?
     
    Well, you got zero out of three correct, and that ain't bad.

    I have no idea what you thought I was talking about, but you seem to have formed the exact opposite impression of what I meant. Let me put it another way.

    Automation is not a force that's going to save us from globalization, H-1b tech workers, mass immigrant grunt laborers, or any of our other socioeconomic problems. Automation is the apotheosis of all those things. Automation is only thinkable within a context that assumes massive free trade and unbridled crony capitalism. And no, I'm not advocating for any of that.

    If America adopted a hard program of economic nationalism with protective tariffs, closed borders, and sound money (which I do advocate) that would be in a certain sense akin to placing economic sanctions upon ourselves. Our economy would necessarily shrink. I am okay with that. Tech toys such as iPhones would become relatively much more expensive if they had to be produced with entirely American labor and purchased with strong dollars, and most people would find themselves priced out of that market. Large scale automation of basic tasks like burger flipping would be entirely infeasible because they would be too expensive. That kind of automation depends on labor arbitrage to produce low-priced tech components and Keynesian clownbucks distributed to the unemployed masses to purchase the products. It isn't going to happen.

    I think tech will become less and less user friendly in the future. Smartphones will go away and the days of specialized mainframe computers that only engineers know how to use will return. That is the correct degree, quantity, role, and level of implementation for computers in civil society. Everything else is unsustainable.

    As far as my ancestry goes, I don't see how that's any of your business.
  176. @Anon
    This gives feminists a boner. But w/o AA, PC, WK male bosses, lower standardz etc... hust how many of those paper-pushing jobs would they have?

    This gives feminists a boner. But w/o AA, PC, WK male bosses, lower standardz etc… hust how many of those paper-pushing jobs would they have?

    And females at the head of HR, many, man-hating employers, block the path of employment to many quality men because of perceived slight, supposed sexism, probably even whether the bitch can ascertain political preference, whether the man is a Christian. I’m sure they have their tells, but when companies are then wanting for quality, look to the female-headed HR department. Until women became head of HR, Resumes just had to be a resume. Once women were the sole arbiters, a resume had to have “Pop” so as not to bore the HR rep into dropping the resume in the trash the first 10 seconds. And no one else in the company gets a look at that candidate because a nitwit dumped the resume. Because these women are frequently low-quality (even if “educated”) hires themselves, Aff-Action hires, HR was a good place to stash them out of sight, you hire them to hire for you at your peril. How a chick with a 4-Year in “communications” becomes the “decider” on engineers, techs and so on mystifies me.

    Look at the female headed businesses. Busted out from Yahoo to HP, that nitwit at Facebook, another at Twitter, to Theranos, many, many of them. Corporate leadership via feminist goals, not profitable. The US Navy is having lousy luck with tyrannical female Skippers aboard ship. These women are such tyrants, such cunts, so abusive of their staff, so flush with incompetence, they VERY rarely finish their tour and move upward and onward. Bad decision making rules the women in business, in politics, in the military, education. Show me one that’s successful, I’ll show you five thousand others not. Feminism is a constant societal bailing operation and it’s cost us. It’s cost us a lot. It’s our decline on the line after all. And feminism put us squarely over the top.

    Go ahead, I defy anyone to show me why not. Perhaps you can point out the reasons, but the deeds of feminism top to bottom ruined the West.

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  177. @Jefferson
    "I cannot understand how any white males can vote democrat, which is increasingly open about its quest to flatten white guys"

    The Democratic Party as well as the Left in Europe are also extremely hostile towards White women. They completely ignore White women who are raped/killed by Muslim men, Mestizo men/Illegal Immigrant men, and Black men.

    In 2008 Crooked Cankles was not seen as vibrantly diverse enough by voters voting in the Democratic primaries even though she has a vagina.

    On the Left skin color still trumps private sexual parts on the vibrant diversity food chain.

    On the Left a Black penis is way more vibrantly diverse than a White vagina.

    Hence why the likes of George Soros likes Blackness way more than he likes Feminism. You don't see George Soros starting an astro turf group called Women Lives Matter. Feminism bores him but Blackity Black Black Black sends a tingle up his legs. In George Soros eyes Ta-Nehisi Coates is a trillion times cooler than Gloria Steinem.

    Feminism is boring yo. Feminism didn't give us cool Black culture like Hip Hop and the NBA nahmean.

    The Democratic Party as well as the Left in Europe are also extremely hostile towards White women.

    You’re right, though they pretend not to be. They hardly even pretend to care about white men.

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    • Replies: @Jefferson
    "You’re right, though they pretend not to be. They hardly even pretend to care about white men."

    The Left doesn't even pretend to care about White women either. Nobody on the Left cared about the killings of Kathryn Steinle and Karina Vetrano the Italian woman who was raped and murdered in Queens, New York. The reason is because the perpetrators who murdered them do not racially look like the villains straight out of 99.99% of all Law & Order episodes.
  178. Bill P says:
    @J
    Let's start by being honest with our self. Latin immigrants work harder for less money, that's good for the economy. China sells us good stuff cheaper we can produce, that's good for the economy. The problem is what to do with the proles that are unable or unwilling to compete. The best is to create tasks they can do, jobs that add some value, like planting roadside trees, creating parks and fighting erosion. Drafting them to "fight" foreign wars is the most efficient way to keep the occupied and the society, healthy.

    Let’s start by being honest with our self. Latin immigrants work harder for less money, that’s good for the economy.

    No, they don’t. I had my first construction job at age 18 (1990s). The Mexicans who picked up our scrap would drink beers in the alley during lunch. I couldn’t get away with that then, and I can’t now.

    The one advantage to Mexican labor is they can’t easily leave an employer for a higher status job. They’re stuck in the grey economy because of their legal status. For employers, that’s pretty important. Having that kind of leverage over your employees is worth a lot. It’s the same reason it isn’t that hard to find a labor job as a felon. It’s always been that way here in the US, but I wouldn’t expect most Unz readers to know that, nor would I blame them for their lack of knowledge on the subject. But really, an employer at a construction company would rather hire an illegal alien or a felon than a university grad for anything that doesn’t require a degree.

    So if you’re a young man who’s out of work and looking for decent pay as a laborer, leave out any college education in your application, because it won’t help you a bit.

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  179. Smart Existence-in-the-World,

    Are you perhaps an other than old stock American?

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  180. @Bill P

    From everyone I’ve worked with, the below is indeed true:

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3790614/They-don-t-like-drugs-gay-marriage-HATE-tattoos-Generation-Z-conservative-WW2.html
     
    It's the result of the liberal baby bust. I've been expecting this to come to light soon.

    Since about 1980 conservative births have outpaced liberal ones (among whites), with the trend accelerating over the decades -- conservatives currently have about 50% more kids than liberals. People started to notice about ten years ago, and now the disparity is starting to show in kids who are almost adults.

    It's going to make for an interesting dynamic when they enter adulthood just as liberal boomers are starting to age out of dominance.

    Since about 1980 conservative births have outpaced liberal ones (among whites), with the trend accelerating over the decades — conservatives currently have about 50% more kids than liberals. People started to notice about ten years ago, and now the disparity is starting to show in kids who are almost adults.

    For twenty years I’ve been saying that feminist dogma and behavior regarding reproduction is Zero-Sum. You cannot get around the effects of 50 million abortions, 60 years of birth control and at least 30 years of anti-marriage, anti-breeding behavior of feminists and gays. People of course tell me I’m full of shit. Abortions are zero-sum. Period. Maybe they refuse conversation on the matter in media but it’s happening. Look at the electorate all over the country. Pro-Life women of the 60s and their children are winning. After the decades of destruction of their reproductive factor, there are simply fewer Democrats than there would have been.

    Assuming more abortions in, more birth control pills in, more homos, fewer babies born to them and therefore, fewer Liberals out, we can start to explain how 53% of white women voted for Trump. Those are the children and grand daughters of the ProLife women that actually HAD and RAISED their children while feminists were aborting by the dozens of millions. That of course assumes Democrat mommies raise Democrat kids. I get that, that’s fact. At least initially, especially after college, they’re overwhelmingly liberal. More abortions in, fewer Liberals out. It is absolutely a self-immolation. And it’s in play today with Governors, State Houses, the House and Senate of the U.S. and now, the White House. Even as they may deny it, they’re madly trying to fill the gap with Democrat immigrants. And because it’s feminist-driven, they’re willing to trade away our legacy that way to stay in power. Oh yeah, it’s happening.

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  181. Rob McX says:
    @Intelligent Dasein
    Not cranky, just trying to be succinct; otherwise I could go on and on about this.

    But one of things that really does aggravate me is the recent (within the last year or so) upsurge in the popularity of the automation meme. Even Drudge and Zero Hedge have really gotten in on the act. If it's not self-driving cars and teller-less banks, it's robots and AI are going to eliminate half of all jobs by 2030.

    No, they aren't.

    The low hanging fruits of automation have already been picked. Any further attempts to automate economic activity are going to run in to a wall of diminishing returns. It amounts to setting up a Rube Goldberg contraption to perform a task that a human being can actually do cheaper and with less hassle. The one-off windfall accruing to stockholders from the elimination of a company's current workforce is actually a form of liquidation. This is predatory capitalism that strip-mines the accumulated wealth of society, leaving desolation in its wake.

    Furthermore, any dreams of an automated world are not compatible with the growing trend of economic nationalism and beggar-thy-neighbor trade policies we are witnessing. Automation requires an abundance of computers, chips, software, and programmers---all currently available on the cheap due to globalism. When the trade wars begin in earnest, tech is going to become a rare and expensive commodity that will have to be allocated sparingly. The whole idea of an army of robotic burger-flippers at McD's is going to be seen for the moronic extravagance that it is.

    The trend towards automation depends on the alternatives that are available to halt or slow it down, e.g. a plentiful supply of Third World immigrants willing to do a job for $8 an hour.

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  182. bomag says:
    @Daniel Chieh
    After seeing the effects of welfare states, I've reversed my original position and become very doubtful about Universal Basic Income. In Finland, even without the corrosive effects of immigration, the perpetual welfare state created a very morbid economy; individuals often have no aspiration or struggle, collecting a welfare check but becoming uncertain on how gain status.

    Without the economic reasoning, women often become disinterested in relationships and certainly seem to avoid having children; they look upon the women of the past as oppressed housewives, but neither can they get a high-powered career as in the US, since everything is so regulated and there's no growth.

    Men don't do any better, and there's an overall sense of depression. Wealthier men tend not to start businesses locally, due to the high tax load for the welfare state, and establish businesses in Eastern Europe or other less regulated countries - this further contributes to local joblessness. They also seem to avoid local women, marrying or having mistresses from Eastern Europe or further off in Asia.

    About the only thing that keeps winning is endless credentialism: Finland is the most overeducated society on Earth, largely because if someone can't get a job, she goes back and gets yet another degree. Also, because you need a degree even to be a barista.

    Satiety leads not to production, but to something like mental obesity. Everything grinds down to a stagnant halt; there's something about the shock of immigration that is actually positive, because its something for people to actually feel passion to fight for, or against.

    Good post.

    there’s something about the shock of immigration that is actually positive, because its something for people to actually feel passion to fight for, or against.

    Indeed, humans seem to need a struggle for motivation. Let us find some constructive struggles that won’t leave us with dysfunctional demographics.

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    • Replies: @Opinionator
    Except immigration doesn't shock. Its poison is insidious and slow acting.
  183. Jefferson says:
    @J
    Let's start by being honest with our self. Latin immigrants work harder for less money, that's good for the economy. China sells us good stuff cheaper we can produce, that's good for the economy. The problem is what to do with the proles that are unable or unwilling to compete. The best is to create tasks they can do, jobs that add some value, like planting roadside trees, creating parks and fighting erosion. Drafting them to "fight" foreign wars is the most efficient way to keep the occupied and the society, healthy.

    “Let’s start by being honest with our self. Latin immigrants work harder”

    They work hard but Hispanics don’t work smart. All of that hard work for nothing because on average Hispanics still have a higher poverty rate than White Gringos and Asians in America.

    A Guatemalan or Mexican can work 12 hours everyday and still take home a pathetic paycheck.

    Read More
  184. Jefferson says:
    @ben tillman

    The Democratic Party as well as the Left in Europe are also extremely hostile towards White women.
     
    You're right, though they pretend not to be. They hardly even pretend to care about white men.

    “You’re right, though they pretend not to be. They hardly even pretend to care about white men.”

    The Left doesn’t even pretend to care about White women either. Nobody on the Left cared about the killings of Kathryn Steinle and Karina Vetrano the Italian woman who was raped and murdered in Queens, New York. The reason is because the perpetrators who murdered them do not racially look like the villains straight out of 99.99% of all Law & Order episodes.

    Read More
  185. @J
    Let's start by being honest with our self. Latin immigrants work harder for less money, that's good for the economy. China sells us good stuff cheaper we can produce, that's good for the economy. The problem is what to do with the proles that are unable or unwilling to compete. The best is to create tasks they can do, jobs that add some value, like planting roadside trees, creating parks and fighting erosion. Drafting them to "fight" foreign wars is the most efficient way to keep the occupied and the society, healthy.

    Let’s start by being honest with our self. Latin immigrants work harder for less money, that’s good for the economy. China sells us good stuff cheaper we can produce, that’s good for the economy.

    You are correct that many hispanics work harder, often for less money. You are correct that China sells us good stuff cheaper this we can produce (I would call it adequate stuff, but for the sake of argument let’s call it good).

    However these temptations are not in the best interests of the American people. (I do not know what is this “the economy” of which you speak.)

    Read More
    • Replies: @J
    Ultimately, "economy" is the capacity to pay and equip a fighting army. America is able to maintain military bases all over the world, thirteen or more battle groups permanently patrolling the seven seas, materially and politically assist dozens of important military allies like Israel, Germany, Taiwan, etc. "Economy" is also the capacity to pay off rebellious minorities, like the fifty million strong local Africans. Think of Rome: When could not pay its soldiers, it had to retire from England and Dacia and Pannonia and soon collapsed. Need I say more?
  186. @kihowi
    It's absolute nonsense. You can eat healthily on $3 dollars a day. I know, I did it. But, it requires you to make an effort.

    There are no starving fat people. The money required to become fat is many many times more than what it costs to live healthily.

    I think it's one of those ideas that's popular because it's so obviously absurd that people mistake if for sophisticated.

    It’s absolute nonsense. You can eat healthily on $3 dollars a day.

    How?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anon
    Buy ~$5.00 worth of eggs per week, ~$10.00 assorted vegetables, ~$2.50 bread, $3.50 discretionary (butter, milk, or meat). Shift the budget around between weeks for more expensive items, or to account for taste. Not too hard if you have a dollar store nearby. (I live in the Northeast, incidentally).

    ($5.00 for eggs is probably a little excessive, actually).

    , @kihowi
    Make two dishes for four people under $12 or something. Eat one eighth of that each day. Easy. Especially if you eat mostly vegetarian. Even meat will be under that if you restrict yourself to exactly one portion.

    Eat two pieces of a fruit a day, also a salad.

    Simple breakfast of granola or egg or cornflakes or yoghurt with fruit or whatever.

  187. @David Davenport
    ... Automation requires an abundance of computers, chips, software, and programmers—all currently available on the cheap due to globalism. When the trade wars begin in earnest, tech is going to become a rare and expensive commodity that will have to be allocated sparingly.

    Mr. Intelligent D. reveals himself to be a Ludd, a free free free trader, and an open borders advocate, all three?

    Please explain why computers, chips, and software cannot be made and sold for affordable prices in the USA? Did foreigners in foreign places invent and manufacture the Apple II computer and other affordable digital developments of the 1970's and 1980's? Were microprocessors and other computer chips imported back then? Not much.

    If automation is the wave of the future, won't cheap foreign labor become less important to the cost of goods in America?

    Your argument for the cheapness and braininess of foreign labor is also an argument for more
    H1-B workers. Is that what you want?

    Mr. Intelligent D. reveals himself to be a Ludd, a free free free trader, and an open borders advocate, all three?

    Well, you got zero out of three correct, and that ain’t bad.

    I have no idea what you thought I was talking about, but you seem to have formed the exact opposite impression of what I meant. Let me put it another way.

    Automation is not a force that’s going to save us from globalization, H-1b tech workers, mass immigrant grunt laborers, or any of our other socioeconomic problems. Automation is the apotheosis of all those things. Automation is only thinkable within a context that assumes massive free trade and unbridled crony capitalism. And no, I’m not advocating for any of that.

    If America adopted a hard program of economic nationalism with protective tariffs, closed borders, and sound money (which I do advocate) that would be in a certain sense akin to placing economic sanctions upon ourselves. Our economy would necessarily shrink. I am okay with that. Tech toys such as iPhones would become relatively much more expensive if they had to be produced with entirely American labor and purchased with strong dollars, and most people would find themselves priced out of that market. Large scale automation of basic tasks like burger flipping would be entirely infeasible because they would be too expensive. That kind of automation depends on labor arbitrage to produce low-priced tech components and Keynesian clownbucks distributed to the unemployed masses to purchase the products. It isn’t going to happen.

    I think tech will become less and less user friendly in the future. Smartphones will go away and the days of specialized mainframe computers that only engineers know how to use will return. That is the correct degree, quantity, role, and level of implementation for computers in civil society. Everything else is unsustainable.

    As far as my ancestry goes, I don’t see how that’s any of your business.

    Read More
  188. Whiskey says: • Website

    Women are frankly happy mostly with their lot. Yes they’d like husbands, but not ORDINARY men. Just billionaire sadists with issues they can “change” or somesuch. Maybe billionaire vampires or soemthing. In the meantime they are mostly happy with the carousel hoping that among their 50 plus lifetime partners they will eventually get some Alpha to marry them.

    Until then, and even if they don’t keep one, five minutes of Alpha beats five decades of beta. Every time. For almost every woman with options (not ultra fat and ultra ugly).

    Women are not changing back to 3 partner women of the 1940s and 1950s. Nor will they “settle” anymore for “boring” beta males; when they make as much as their male peers they demand millionaire and billionaire men, or ultra dark triad cads.

    White men are not going to get rich en masse, and even the nerdy ones who get rich have to settle for women who disdain them — Zuckerberg and Gates are exhibit A. So men are going to naturally have to Alpha up. By violence.

    The Black community experienced an explosion of violence as things got better for them; less discrimination, more money, more resources. But Black women demanded more Alpha thus a Thunderdome Society. Black people live in the Road Warrior world, because that is how Black men get laid.

    Its coming to White men, and the ultra violence will destroy White society and economies the way it has in Black neighborhoods and Latin America, for the same reason. Women DEMAND Alpha; it is why in Europe, being equal to their men and thus HATE HATE HATING their men for being equal, White women have pushed for mass Third World swaggering Immavasion. The rape and brutality is what they wanted. A few teenagers murdered and young boys raped is a mere bagatelle when the all important lady tingles are concerned.

    And they will get their wish. Young men know the score, and have to Alpha up. That means living like a Tsarnaev, Alpha-ing up with MMA gym workouts constantly, being able and ready to fight; without the pointless bombing that also led them being caught. One thing that stood out was the Jersey Shore dudes constant contest to be buffed out and ripped, and ready to fight all the time. Certainly that worked for them.

    Enough of that of course and you get the prosperity of say, Cali or Medellin. Perhaps Tijuana. The truly terrifying thing of course is techno drone dominance displays. “My drone swarm of tiny poison tipped drones can kill you faster than you can summon yours.”

    Men will be EXACTLY what the hottest and youngest women reward. Nothing more or less.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
    Whiskey, about a month or so ago I saw a good comment of yours and replied to you that you had improved a lot. I think my comment was premature. Sorry to get your hopes up, as this one here was just stupid.

    Women are frankly happy mostly with their lot. Yes they’d like husbands, but not ORDINARY men.
     
    Absolutely wrong. So long as they have a few babies/kids around and a husband who can provide for them such that they can do what they were made for, nurturing and raising their own, and making things nice at home for the husband, they will be happy. You can't fool mother nature for too long. It's a damn shame that people were forced to undergo a half-century-long experiment to prove that mother nature is wrong. She can be a vicious bitch when toyed with like this.
    , @Corvinus
    "Women are frankly happy mostly with their lot. Yes they’d like husbands, but not ORDINARY men."

    Men and women have their own definitions as to what is ordinary and extraordinary.

    "In the meantime they are mostly happy with the carousel hoping that among their 50 plus lifetime partners they will eventually get some Alpha to marry them."

    Much in the same vein as those men who "pump and dump" and hope to find a "down to earth" female with "Christian values" in their golden years to settle down and raise kids.

    "Until then, and even if they don’t keep one, five minutes of Alpha beats five decades of beta."

    Betas are the new alphas. Sorry to break it to you.

    "Women are not changing back to 3 partner women of the 1940s and 1950s. Nor will they “settle” anymore for “boring” beta males; when they make as much as their male peers they demand millionaire and billionaire men, or ultra dark triad cads."

    No, women have their own set of standards as to what is most desirable for their man.

    "Women DEMAND Alpha; it is why in Europe, being equal to their men and thus HATE HATE HATING their men for being equal, White women have pushed for mass Third World swaggering Immavasion. The rape and brutality is what they wanted. A few teenagers murdered and young boys raped is a mere bagatelle when the all important lady tingles are concerned."

    Not quite. Men and women demand integrity and respect in their relationship. As an aside, you would be a fascinating case study for some psychologist.

    "Young men know the score, and have to Alpha up. That means living like a Tsarnaev, Alpha-ing up with MMA gym workouts constantly, being able and ready to fight; without the pointless bombing that also led them being caught."

    "Men will be EXACTLY what the hottest and youngest women reward. Nothing more or less."

    That's not how life works, dear.

    , @Daniel Chieh
    I think your thesis assumes that people are much more consistent than they actually are. But I do give you that there's a significant Halo Effect for anyone we find attractive, and it might more so for women than men. Something worth researching, at any rate.
  189. Anon says: • Disclaimer
    @Opinionator
    It’s absolute nonsense. You can eat healthily on $3 dollars a day.

    How?

    Buy ~$5.00 worth of eggs per week, ~$10.00 assorted vegetables, ~$2.50 bread, $3.50 discretionary (butter, milk, or meat). Shift the budget around between weeks for more expensive items, or to account for taste. Not too hard if you have a dollar store nearby. (I live in the Northeast, incidentally).

    ($5.00 for eggs is probably a little excessive, actually).

    Read More
  190. J says:
    @Opinionator

    Let’s start by being honest with our self. Latin immigrants work harder for less money, that’s good for the economy. China sells us good stuff cheaper we can produce, that’s good for the economy.
     
    You are correct that many hispanics work harder, often for less money. You are correct that China sells us good stuff cheaper this we can produce (I would call it adequate stuff, but for the sake of argument let's call it good).

    However these temptations are not in the best interests of the American people. (I do not know what is this "the economy" of which you speak.)

    Ultimately, “economy” is the capacity to pay and equip a fighting army. America is able to maintain military bases all over the world, thirteen or more battle groups permanently patrolling the seven seas, materially and politically assist dozens of important military allies like Israel, Germany, Taiwan, etc. “Economy” is also the capacity to pay off rebellious minorities, like the fifty million strong local Africans. Think of Rome: When could not pay its soldiers, it had to retire from England and Dacia and Pannonia and soon collapsed. Need I say more?

    Read More
  191. @bomag
    Good post.

    there’s something about the shock of immigration that is actually positive, because its something for people to actually feel passion to fight for, or against.
     
    Indeed, humans seem to need a struggle for motivation. Let us find some constructive struggles that won't leave us with dysfunctional demographics.

    Except immigration doesn’t shock. Its poison is insidious and slow acting.

    Read More
  192. Pericles says:
    @yaqub the mad scientist
    The Democrat's entire Life of Julia is built around an economy that needs nothing more than a man's sperm-true to The World According to Garp. Meanwhile, the British midlands has erected a statue as a tribute to matrifocalism as the new normal.

    Well, Julia also needs a lot of men hidden in the background to fund and provide all those services. But she won’t have to feel anything except entitlement about that.

    Read More
  193. Pericles says:
    @Amasius
    Polygamy is poised for a comeback. It's already happening informally with the sugar baby/sugar daddy phenomenon, and alpha male players with their harems. Enter Kody Brown, the "Sister Wives" guy lobbying the government for his civil rights. If we're going to let men marry other men, why not let a man marry multiple women?

    Our "Soylent Green" future, complete with furniture girls.

    Polygamy is already here and hale and well. It would be pointless to ruin a good welfare scam by registering a government marriage though. Keep it in the mosque and each of your wives will get a nice apartment for free to raise her brood.

    Or you have ghetto polygamy, which is more of an informal popularity contest. So some of the players manage to have 33 children in the periods they are out of prison, others fewer. The women have a handful with various men who take their fancy, but again yo don’t ruin it. The men are always broke, at least for society’s purposes.

    Read More
  194. @Whiskey
    Women are frankly happy mostly with their lot. Yes they'd like husbands, but not ORDINARY men. Just billionaire sadists with issues they can "change" or somesuch. Maybe billionaire vampires or soemthing. In the meantime they are mostly happy with the carousel hoping that among their 50 plus lifetime partners they will eventually get some Alpha to marry them.

    Until then, and even if they don't keep one, five minutes of Alpha beats five decades of beta. Every time. For almost every woman with options (not ultra fat and ultra ugly).

    Women are not changing back to 3 partner women of the 1940s and 1950s. Nor will they "settle" anymore for "boring" beta males; when they make as much as their male peers they demand millionaire and billionaire men, or ultra dark triad cads.

    White men are not going to get rich en masse, and even the nerdy ones who get rich have to settle for women who disdain them -- Zuckerberg and Gates are exhibit A. So men are going to naturally have to Alpha up. By violence.

    The Black community experienced an explosion of violence as things got better for them; less discrimination, more money, more resources. But Black women demanded more Alpha thus a Thunderdome Society. Black people live in the Road Warrior world, because that is how Black men get laid.

    Its coming to White men, and the ultra violence will destroy White society and economies the way it has in Black neighborhoods and Latin America, for the same reason. Women DEMAND Alpha; it is why in Europe, being equal to their men and thus HATE HATE HATING their men for being equal, White women have pushed for mass Third World swaggering Immavasion. The rape and brutality is what they wanted. A few teenagers murdered and young boys raped is a mere bagatelle when the all important lady tingles are concerned.

    And they will get their wish. Young men know the score, and have to Alpha up. That means living like a Tsarnaev, Alpha-ing up with MMA gym workouts constantly, being able and ready to fight; without the pointless bombing that also led them being caught. One thing that stood out was the Jersey Shore dudes constant contest to be buffed out and ripped, and ready to fight all the time. Certainly that worked for them.

    Enough of that of course and you get the prosperity of say, Cali or Medellin. Perhaps Tijuana. The truly terrifying thing of course is techno drone dominance displays. "My drone swarm of tiny poison tipped drones can kill you faster than you can summon yours."

    Men will be EXACTLY what the hottest and youngest women reward. Nothing more or less.

    Whiskey, about a month or so ago I saw a good comment of yours and replied to you that you had improved a lot. I think my comment was premature. Sorry to get your hopes up, as this one here was just stupid.

    Women are frankly happy mostly with their lot. Yes they’d like husbands, but not ORDINARY men.

    Absolutely wrong. So long as they have a few babies/kids around and a husband who can provide for them such that they can do what they were made for, nurturing and raising their own, and making things nice at home for the husband, they will be happy. You can’t fool mother nature for too long. It’s a damn shame that people were forced to undergo a half-century-long experiment to prove that mother nature is wrong. She can be a vicious bitch when toyed with like this.

    Read More
  195. @Old fogey
    I am a woman and I have an unfortunate mantra: "Women are stupid." I know that I'm not supposed to think this and I know for sure that I'm not supposed to say it but it is indeed true.

    It was women themselves who turned against each other under the "feminist" creed who suddenly decided that women who were fortunate enough to be able to do so and who preferred spending their time ensuring that their husband and children were healthy and lived comfortable lives were less capable and less worthy than women who turned their babies over to strangers during the day simply for the sake of earning extra money by doing inconsequential work in offices and retail settings. They did so after their "consciousnesses" were "raised" by staring at their vaginas, being instructed in how awful their husbands were, and listening to speeches about how wonderful it would be if they were "empowered."

    I was foolish enough that when I first heard the word "feminism" I thought that these new outspoken women wanted to hail feminine characteristics - how wrong I was.

    I’ve always liked your posts, Fogey (only been on a here a few months), but I didn’t know you were a woman. Based on your first paragraph, would you agree then, that woman should not be allowed to vote, because that would make 3 of us, you me, and Ann Coulter?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Jim Don Bob
    Make that 4, unless the woman has a real job, like the Verizon woman in the boom truck who fixed my Fios last week. Women in white collar jobs don't know anything about how the world works, but they think they do.
    , @Old fogey
    I certainly do agree that women shouldn't vote. Women are designed for empathy, not cool rationality, and so while I would be delighted to find myself nursed by a woman, I would not like to find out that my proposed surgeon was female.

    I wish I could find the link, but I read one woman's reasoned defense of keeping the vote for men based on the idea that when men only had the right to vote they represented their entire family, not just themselves. And that had the additional advantage of making men think more seriously about their own vote.

    Glad to hear about Ann Coulter, she's one cool cookie with a great legal mind.

    By the way, I'm still scratching my head over how we reached the stage of allowing people who pay nothing in the way of income taxes to vote. There must have been some really crazy politicking going on to convince people that was a smart thing to do.
  196. @Intelligent Dasein
    Not cranky, just trying to be succinct; otherwise I could go on and on about this.

    But one of things that really does aggravate me is the recent (within the last year or so) upsurge in the popularity of the automation meme. Even Drudge and Zero Hedge have really gotten in on the act. If it's not self-driving cars and teller-less banks, it's robots and AI are going to eliminate half of all jobs by 2030.

    No, they aren't.

    The low hanging fruits of automation have already been picked. Any further attempts to automate economic activity are going to run in to a wall of diminishing returns. It amounts to setting up a Rube Goldberg contraption to perform a task that a human being can actually do cheaper and with less hassle. The one-off windfall accruing to stockholders from the elimination of a company's current workforce is actually a form of liquidation. This is predatory capitalism that strip-mines the accumulated wealth of society, leaving desolation in its wake.

    Furthermore, any dreams of an automated world are not compatible with the growing trend of economic nationalism and beggar-thy-neighbor trade policies we are witnessing. Automation requires an abundance of computers, chips, software, and programmers---all currently available on the cheap due to globalism. When the trade wars begin in earnest, tech is going to become a rare and expensive commodity that will have to be allocated sparingly. The whole idea of an army of robotic burger-flippers at McD's is going to be seen for the moronic extravagance that it is.

    Burger-flippers shouldn’t be scared shitless about automation right now. Doctors, on the other hand — it’s not hard to imagine AI-assisted doctors being able to handle 2-3x as many patients as they can right now (and thus 50-66% of doctors being put out of work).

    Read More
    • Replies: @Opinionator
    Really? Isn't medicine much more of an art than a science?
  197. Corvinus says:
    @Rando
    The original Heartiste is married and has children. He has said as much on the blog.

    “The original Heartiste is married and has children. He has said as much on the blog.”

    Exact citation?

    Read More
  198. Corvinus says:
    @Daniel Chieh

    Your disdain ought to be directed toward Heartiste, a middle aged man who is unmarried and has no white children. He promotes the “pump and dump” lifestyle that obviously opposes the values of young Christian conservative men.
     
    My disdain for destructive liberals like yourself is accurately placed. Don't worry, it won't go anywhere even in spite of handfisted attempts to redirect ourselves to splinter.

    Oh and the best thing about HBD, and reality in general? Truth is not a democracy. Sucks for you.

    Bye.

    “My disdain for destructive liberals like yourself is accurately placed.”

    Except I’m not a liberal. I’m a married white dude who makes his own political and racial decisions.

    “Don’t worry, it won’t go anywhere even in spite of handfisted attempts to redirect ourselves to splinter.”

    There’s nothing handfisted about you protecting a well-known serial “pumper and dumper”, one who is not married and has no white children. I get it. You are working toward the Heartiste Merit Badge. Praytell, what is your religious faith? How would your church view your efforts in supporting a cad?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anonymous

    I’m a married white dude who makes his own political and racial decisions.
     
    I'm not a liberal, I'm a non sequitur.
  199. Corvinus says:
    @Whiskey
    Women are frankly happy mostly with their lot. Yes they'd like husbands, but not ORDINARY men. Just billionaire sadists with issues they can "change" or somesuch. Maybe billionaire vampires or soemthing. In the meantime they are mostly happy with the carousel hoping that among their 50 plus lifetime partners they will eventually get some Alpha to marry them.

    Until then, and even if they don't keep one, five minutes of Alpha beats five decades of beta. Every time. For almost every woman with options (not ultra fat and ultra ugly).

    Women are not changing back to 3 partner women of the 1940s and 1950s. Nor will they "settle" anymore for "boring" beta males; when they make as much as their male peers they demand millionaire and billionaire men, or ultra dark triad cads.

    White men are not going to get rich en masse, and even the nerdy ones who get rich have to settle for women who disdain them -- Zuckerberg and Gates are exhibit A. So men are going to naturally have to Alpha up. By violence.

    The Black community experienced an explosion of violence as things got better for them; less discrimination, more money, more resources. But Black women demanded more Alpha thus a Thunderdome Society. Black people live in the Road Warrior world, because that is how Black men get laid.

    Its coming to White men, and the ultra violence will destroy White society and economies the way it has in Black neighborhoods and Latin America, for the same reason. Women DEMAND Alpha; it is why in Europe, being equal to their men and thus HATE HATE HATING their men for being equal, White women have pushed for mass Third World swaggering Immavasion. The rape and brutality is what they wanted. A few teenagers murdered and young boys raped is a mere bagatelle when the all important lady tingles are concerned.

    And they will get their wish. Young men know the score, and have to Alpha up. That means living like a Tsarnaev, Alpha-ing up with MMA gym workouts constantly, being able and ready to fight; without the pointless bombing that also led them being caught. One thing that stood out was the Jersey Shore dudes constant contest to be buffed out and ripped, and ready to fight all the time. Certainly that worked for them.

    Enough of that of course and you get the prosperity of say, Cali or Medellin. Perhaps Tijuana. The truly terrifying thing of course is techno drone dominance displays. "My drone swarm of tiny poison tipped drones can kill you faster than you can summon yours."

    Men will be EXACTLY what the hottest and youngest women reward. Nothing more or less.

    “Women are frankly happy mostly with their lot. Yes they’d like husbands, but not ORDINARY men.”

    Men and women have their own definitions as to what is ordinary and extraordinary.

    “In the meantime they are mostly happy with the carousel hoping that among their 50 plus lifetime partners they will eventually get some Alpha to marry them.”

    Much in the same vein as those men who “pump and dump” and hope to find a “down to earth” female with “Christian values” in their golden years to settle down and raise kids.

    “Until then, and even if they don’t keep one, five minutes of Alpha beats five decades of beta.”

    Betas are the new alphas. Sorry to break it to you.

    “Women are not changing back to 3 partner women of the 1940s and 1950s. Nor will they “settle” anymore for “boring” beta males; when they make as much as their male peers they demand millionaire and billionaire men, or ultra dark triad cads.”

    No, women have their own set of standards as to what is most desirable for their man.

    “Women DEMAND Alpha; it is why in Europe, being equal to their men and thus HATE HATE HATING their men for being equal, White women have pushed for mass Third World swaggering Immavasion. The rape and brutality is what they wanted. A few teenagers murdered and young boys raped is a mere bagatelle when the all important lady tingles are concerned.”

    Not quite. Men and women demand integrity and respect in their relationship. As an aside, you would be a fascinating case study for some psychologist.

    “Young men know the score, and have to Alpha up. That means living like a Tsarnaev, Alpha-ing up with MMA gym workouts constantly, being able and ready to fight; without the pointless bombing that also led them being caught.”

    “Men will be EXACTLY what the hottest and youngest women reward. Nothing more or less.”

    That’s not how life works, dear.

    Read More
  200. Corvinus says:
    @mukat
    Cads can service multiple women, simultaneously or serially. The buggers even seem to enjoy their high productivity. To Heartiste's point.

    (This analysis lifted from Dalrock).

    “Cads can service multiple women, simultaneously or serially. The buggers even seem to enjoy their high productivity. To Heartiste’s point.”

    Is not Dalrock a married Christian with children? If that be the case, should Dalrock be supportive of Heartiste’s lifestyle, then Dalrock has lost all credibility.

    Furthermore, if these cads are atheist or agnostic, then it is incumbent upon Christian men to help them see the err of their ways. So, mukat, how are YOU helping Jesus here in this regard?

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  201. kihowi says:
    @Opinionator
    It’s absolute nonsense. You can eat healthily on $3 dollars a day.

    How?

    Make two dishes for four people under $12 or something. Eat one eighth of that each day. Easy. Especially if you eat mostly vegetarian. Even meat will be under that if you restrict yourself to exactly one portion.

    Eat two pieces of a fruit a day, also a salad.

    Simple breakfast of granola or egg or cornflakes or yoghurt with fruit or whatever.

    Read More
  202. “Men will be EXACTLY what the hottest and youngest women reward. Nothing more or less.”

    That’s not how life works, dear.

    My comment above to Mr. Whiskey notwithstanding, he is mostly right in this case – it would be correct if written “Young men will be pretty much what the hottest and youngest women reward.”

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  203. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @Corvinus
    "My disdain for destructive liberals like yourself is accurately placed."

    Except I'm not a liberal. I'm a married white dude who makes his own political and racial decisions.

    "Don’t worry, it won’t go anywhere even in spite of handfisted attempts to redirect ourselves to splinter."

    There's nothing handfisted about you protecting a well-known serial "pumper and dumper", one who is not married and has no white children. I get it. You are working toward the Heartiste Merit Badge. Praytell, what is your religious faith? How would your church view your efforts in supporting a cad?

    I’m a married white dude who makes his own political and racial decisions.

    I’m not a liberal, I’m a non sequitur.

    Read More
  204. @Achmed E. Newman
    Daniel, it was interesting the way you put that. It sound to me that your conscious mind, telling you to date the career woman was actually just your PC-brainwashed lobe, while your unconscious mind knew the truth of what you wanted and SHOULD HAVE WANTED in a woman. The young ones are sexually attractive for a good reason. Whatever you see, and the visuals are EVERYTHING, is nature's advertisement of that body's ability to make children. We men were made and/or evolved to have this desire, and this desire is good for the continuation of our species.

    I think you did the right thing, but this is based on not knowing "the problems" of the younger one. Your body and mind were responding as programmed by nature, and people need to get it straight in their heads that it's not nice to fool Mother Nature!

    I’m pretty happy with the decision I made in retrospect :)

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  205. @Whiskey
    Women are frankly happy mostly with their lot. Yes they'd like husbands, but not ORDINARY men. Just billionaire sadists with issues they can "change" or somesuch. Maybe billionaire vampires or soemthing. In the meantime they are mostly happy with the carousel hoping that among their 50 plus lifetime partners they will eventually get some Alpha to marry them.

    Until then, and even if they don't keep one, five minutes of Alpha beats five decades of beta. Every time. For almost every woman with options (not ultra fat and ultra ugly).

    Women are not changing back to 3 partner women of the 1940s and 1950s. Nor will they "settle" anymore for "boring" beta males; when they make as much as their male peers they demand millionaire and billionaire men, or ultra dark triad cads.

    White men are not going to get rich en masse, and even the nerdy ones who get rich have to settle for women who disdain them -- Zuckerberg and Gates are exhibit A. So men are going to naturally have to Alpha up. By violence.

    The Black community experienced an explosion of violence as things got better for them; less discrimination, more money, more resources. But Black women demanded more Alpha thus a Thunderdome Society. Black people live in the Road Warrior world, because that is how Black men get laid.

    Its coming to White men, and the ultra violence will destroy White society and economies the way it has in Black neighborhoods and Latin America, for the same reason. Women DEMAND Alpha; it is why in Europe, being equal to their men and thus HATE HATE HATING their men for being equal, White women have pushed for mass Third World swaggering Immavasion. The rape and brutality is what they wanted. A few teenagers murdered and young boys raped is a mere bagatelle when the all important lady tingles are concerned.

    And they will get their wish. Young men know the score, and have to Alpha up. That means living like a Tsarnaev, Alpha-ing up with MMA gym workouts constantly, being able and ready to fight; without the pointless bombing that also led them being caught. One thing that stood out was the Jersey Shore dudes constant contest to be buffed out and ripped, and ready to fight all the time. Certainly that worked for them.

    Enough of that of course and you get the prosperity of say, Cali or Medellin. Perhaps Tijuana. The truly terrifying thing of course is techno drone dominance displays. "My drone swarm of tiny poison tipped drones can kill you faster than you can summon yours."

    Men will be EXACTLY what the hottest and youngest women reward. Nothing more or less.

    I think your thesis assumes that people are much more consistent than they actually are. But I do give you that there’s a significant Halo Effect for anyone we find attractive, and it might more so for women than men. Something worth researching, at any rate.

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  206. Luke Lea says:
    @David Davenport
    To address automation I’m surprised there isn’t more (or any) talk about the need for new statutory restrictions on the hours of labor, which is how we dealt with that problem in the past. Why not a family-friendly six-hour day (with triple pay for overtime to show we mean business)?

    Are your thirty (30) hour per week employees going to get full healthcare coverage?

    Are they supposed to receive the same weekly pay as the firm's erstwhile forty hour per week employees?

    To address automation I’m surprised there isn’t more (or any) talk about the need for new statutory restrictions on the hours of labor, which is how we dealt with that problem in the past. Why not a family-friendly six-hour day (with triple pay for overtime to show we mean business)?

    Are your thirty (30) hour per week employees going to get full healthcare coverage?

    Are they supposed to receive the same weekly pay as the firm’s erstwhile forty hour per week employees?

    If all four steps were taken they would make more money than they do now or did back in the 1970′s, since GDP per capita is much higher now. After all, American standards of living did not collapse when we went from 12 hour day to 8 hour day last century. As long output per man hour is up, and average GDP per capita is up, the potential is there.

    As for medical insurance, our healthcare system is eating us alive and I don’t have the answer. I do know that every penny spent on healthcare (1 out of every 6 dollars) is somebody’s income, for which they will fight like crazy to keep. Will be like a civil war almost to cut that in half.

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  207. @Achmed E. Newman
    I've always liked your posts, Fogey (only been on a here a few months), but I didn't know you were a woman. Based on your first paragraph, would you agree then, that woman should not be allowed to vote, because that would make 3 of us, you me, and Ann Coulter?

    Make that 4, unless the woman has a real job, like the Verizon woman in the boom truck who fixed my Fios last week. Women in white collar jobs don’t know anything about how the world works, but they think they do.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Expletive Deleted

    Women in white collar jobs don’t know anything about how the world works, but they think they do.
     
    I know, I've watched them try, as they insist that they do.
    It's invariably hilarious. Who tells them this rubbish? It's quite dangerous occasionally.
  208. Svigor says:

    I wouldn’t rely on a man who himself is not married and has no white children.

    Today you’re roleplaying a White Racialist, I see.

    Lies pour from your lips.

    Read More
  209. Svigor says:

    Whiskey says: • Website
    February 28, 2017 at 7:16 am GMT • 400 Words

    TL;DR, but I see you forgot your “Japanese wymminz are strangely immune” thing. To explain no immigration, I mean.

    Still seems like a loooong way to go to protect a treacherous political class, but, have at it.

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  210. @Daniel Chieh
    I'm not absolutely certain, because I've also seen radicalization on the left too. The only absolute loser is the center. But yes, the increasing number of conservative births are hopeful and if hereditary models are true, should gradually swing us toward sanity.

    I think the right is winning when it comes to passion, though. I don't actually believe the left quite understands how many people they are angering, and they honestly seem to be spinning into a singularity where they can't even begin to compromise.

    The only absolute loser is the center.

    I’ve predicted and observed this for some time.

    For a long period you watched Political Triangulation work. It targeted the “muddy middle,” the weakly-held but otherwise common catechism of most Americans.

    The period of this ended in 2000. Since then, political polarization is increased. This is again PREDICTABLE. The weakly-believed “muddy middle” is fracturing, and people are moving away from it to form new, adversarial belief-camps whose members are very zealous.

    Predictable. As I said. And nowhere near completion. I’ve stated for some time that the coming conflagration will in all likelihood behave like a resumption of the English Civil War.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    From a marketing perspective, it makes total sense to strike at the "warm prospect" of the middle that might be able to turn to your side, rather than try to argue with the contrarian. It has the unfortunate result of collapsing the center and as scarcity increases as you have predicted, I suspect that such camps will be used as a convenient excuse to fight over declining living standards.
    , @Expletive Deleted
    Oh goody. Do I get to wear a ruff?
  211. bomag says:
    @dc.sunsets
    I find it funny that "make work" or "spread the work" schemes become more popular right when a roll-over into economic contraction looms.

    Don't get me wrong---I loved working part-time, and I think a fixation on the 40-hr (or more) work week is only great for those who really like what they do for a living (not many right now.)

    I just find the entire discussion rather funny, not unlike the notion that prices of life's essentials should be controlled by legislative fiat.

    I just find the entire discussion rather funny, not unlike the notion that prices of life’s essentials should be controlled by legislative fiat.

    Much of life is make-work, and controlled by legislative fiat: innumerable corporate jobs involved with compliance; gov’t jobs in the main (many that go unfilled for years); many advertising jobs are zero sum at best, negative utility in many cases; rent seeking; on and on.

    To pretend that the world marches to the drum of adding value is a naive notion.

    Read More
  212. @Anon
    Don't be an idiot. The percentage of pedophiles in the Church is appreciably lower than in the general population.

    Let's see how "teachers" in a religious tradition that allows them to marry do.

    Also, since the pedos in the clergy were almost entirely gay, doubt women have much to do with it.

    Anon, Thanks for calling this devout Catholic an idiot. Pope Benedict defrocked 848 priests for sexual abuse and imposed various censures and penalties on another 2572 priests for sexual abuses and the Church has investigated 3400 reported cases since 2004, but that figure was for Benedict’s reign. The Catholic Church in the US has paid out a reported $3 billion to settle sexual abuse cases involving priests, also through Benedict’s reign. A pedophile, whether straight or gay is still a pedophile. Get a copy of “God’s Bankers” and see the machinations the Church went through to avoid addressing and correcting this shameful stain.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anon
    I didn't call you an idiot; I admonished you not to be one. Obviously sexual abuse in the Church is a problem, a problem which still exists but was worst from the 60s to the 80s, for reasons which you may guess. Show me one iota of evidence that celibacy has anything to do with it. All the actual evidence, which you can easily obtain by comparing abuse by priests to abuse by rabbis, public school teachers, and Protestant ministers, points in the opposite direction. These organizations also engage in sickening coverup activities.

    Here's some nice bedtime reading: http://www.usccb.org/issues-and-action/child-and-youth-protection/upload/The-Nature-and-Scope-of-Sexual-Abuse-of-Minors-by-Catholic-Priests-and-Deacons-in-the-United-States-1950-2002.pdf .

    "A pedophile, whether straight or gay is still a pedophile."
    Obviously, but access to grown women won't help much, will it?
  213. Anon says: • Disclaimer
    @Buffalo Joe
    Anon, Thanks for calling this devout Catholic an idiot. Pope Benedict defrocked 848 priests for sexual abuse and imposed various censures and penalties on another 2572 priests for sexual abuses and the Church has investigated 3400 reported cases since 2004, but that figure was for Benedict's reign. The Catholic Church in the US has paid out a reported $3 billion to settle sexual abuse cases involving priests, also through Benedict's reign. A pedophile, whether straight or gay is still a pedophile. Get a copy of "God's Bankers" and see the machinations the Church went through to avoid addressing and correcting this shameful stain.

    I didn’t call you an idiot; I admonished you not to be one. Obviously sexual abuse in the Church is a problem, a problem which still exists but was worst from the 60s to the 80s, for reasons which you may guess. Show me one iota of evidence that celibacy has anything to do with it. All the actual evidence, which you can easily obtain by comparing abuse by priests to abuse by rabbis, public school teachers, and Protestant ministers, points in the opposite direction. These organizations also engage in sickening coverup activities.

    Here’s some nice bedtime reading: http://www.usccb.org/issues-and-action/child-and-youth-protection/upload/The-Nature-and-Scope-of-Sexual-Abuse-of-Minors-by-Catholic-Priests-and-Deacons-in-the-United-States-1950-2002.pdf .

    “A pedophile, whether straight or gay is still a pedophile.”
    Obviously, but access to grown women won’t help much, will it?

    Read More
  214. @Carbon blob
    Burger-flippers shouldn't be scared shitless about automation right now. Doctors, on the other hand -- it's not hard to imagine AI-assisted doctors being able to handle 2-3x as many patients as they can right now (and thus 50-66% of doctors being put out of work).

    Really? Isn’t medicine much more of an art than a science?

    Read More
  215. @dc.sunsets

    The only absolute loser is the center.
     
    I've predicted and observed this for some time.

    For a long period you watched Political Triangulation work. It targeted the "muddy middle," the weakly-held but otherwise common catechism of most Americans.

    The period of this ended in 2000. Since then, political polarization is increased. This is again PREDICTABLE. The weakly-believed "muddy middle" is fracturing, and people are moving away from it to form new, adversarial belief-camps whose members are very zealous.

    Predictable. As I said. And nowhere near completion. I've stated for some time that the coming conflagration will in all likelihood behave like a resumption of the English Civil War.

    From a marketing perspective, it makes total sense to strike at the “warm prospect” of the middle that might be able to turn to your side, rather than try to argue with the contrarian. It has the unfortunate result of collapsing the center and as scarcity increases as you have predicted, I suspect that such camps will be used as a convenient excuse to fight over declining living standards.

    Read More
  216. @kihowi
    Make two dishes for four people under $12 or something. Eat one eighth of that each day. Easy. Especially if you eat mostly vegetarian. Even meat will be under that if you restrict yourself to exactly one portion.

    Eat two pieces of a fruit a day, also a salad.

    Simple breakfast of granola or egg or cornflakes or yoghurt with fruit or whatever.

    Thanks

    Read More
  217. @Anon
    Buy ~$5.00 worth of eggs per week, ~$10.00 assorted vegetables, ~$2.50 bread, $3.50 discretionary (butter, milk, or meat). Shift the budget around between weeks for more expensive items, or to account for taste. Not too hard if you have a dollar store nearby. (I live in the Northeast, incidentally).

    ($5.00 for eggs is probably a little excessive, actually).

    Okay

    Read More
  218. @Corvinus
    "Were you as disapproving of the manosphere when you were posting regularly at Chateau Heartiste?"

    I don't post there. I believe a "Corvo", however, is a regular guest.

    Regardless, are you unconcerned that your pal remains single and has yet to sire white offspring?

    I don’t post there. I believe a “Corvo”, however, is a regular guest.

    A site search turns up both, although I don’t think there’s anything attributed to a Corvinus more recent than a couple years ago. Since you mention that site frequently I’m assuming it’s you.

    I don’t keep up with that site or Heartiste’s family situation. If he doesn’t want children, then for the sake of his hypothetical kids he shouldn’t have them. I stumbled across your posts over there following a link to something posted by our very own Whorefinder, and things started making sense.

    My guess is you found the red pill/manosphere out of frustration with women, ended up being unsuccessful learning game, and became disillusioned with the whole thing.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Corvinus
    "A site search turns up both, although I don’t think there’s anything attributed to a Corvinus more recent than a couple years ago. Since you mention that site frequently I’m assuming it’s you."

    Nope, not me.

    "I don’t keep up with that site or Heartiste’s family situation. If he doesn’t want children, then for the sake of his hypothetical kids he shouldn’t have them."

    Then would not Heartiste be a enemy to the vitality of Western Civilization?

    "I stumbled across your posts over there following a link to something posted by our very own Whorefinder, and things started making sense."

    There's another fine fella who has no white wife nor offspring. Sense a pattern here?

    "My guess is you found the red pill/manosphere out of frustration with women, ended up being unsuccessful learning game, and became disillusioned with the whole thing."

    Son, my buddies and I practiced "game" in high school and college LONG before Heartiste and his company wrote about their alleged exploits.
  219. Old fogey says:
    @Achmed E. Newman
    I've always liked your posts, Fogey (only been on a here a few months), but I didn't know you were a woman. Based on your first paragraph, would you agree then, that woman should not be allowed to vote, because that would make 3 of us, you me, and Ann Coulter?

    I certainly do agree that women shouldn’t vote. Women are designed for empathy, not cool rationality, and so while I would be delighted to find myself nursed by a woman, I would not like to find out that my proposed surgeon was female.

    I wish I could find the link, but I read one woman’s reasoned defense of keeping the vote for men based on the idea that when men only had the right to vote they represented their entire family, not just themselves. And that had the additional advantage of making men think more seriously about their own vote.

    Glad to hear about Ann Coulter, she’s one cool cookie with a great legal mind.

    By the way, I’m still scratching my head over how we reached the stage of allowing people who pay nothing in the way of income taxes to vote. There must have been some really crazy politicking going on to convince people that was a smart thing to do.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Whoever

    I wish I could find the link, but I read one woman’s reasoned defense of keeping the vote for men based on the idea that when men only had the right to vote they represented their entire family, not just themselves. And that had the additional advantage of making men think more seriously about their own vote.
     
    This may not be the essay you remember, but it is an interesting look at those women who opposed the suffrage movement and their reasons:

    Women Against Suffrage by Helen Andrews.

    Some excerpts:

    [W]hen democracy was considered a means and not an end, it was thought to be a bad idea to have a large segment of the population that was entitled to vote but habitually did not. Such blocs would be a temptation to demagogues and would mean that, in times of crisis, elections would be decided by the inexperienced, the injudicious, and the excitable. Thus, when anti-suffragists claimed that women should not have the vote because most did not want it, they were not suggesting that suffrage would be a waste—they meant it would be dangerous.
    ...
    Another argument was the general desirability of small electorates. Common sense decreed that elections should not involve any more voters than are necessary to obtain a good result. Large constituencies devalue each individual’s vote, and they lend themselves to mass-advertising-style tactics rather than true deliberation. If women’s interests were protected well enough by men—and Parliament had passed a good deal of feminist legislation since the Married Women’s Property Act 1870—then safer to keep the electorate small.

  220. Whoever says:
    @Old fogey
    I certainly do agree that women shouldn't vote. Women are designed for empathy, not cool rationality, and so while I would be delighted to find myself nursed by a woman, I would not like to find out that my proposed surgeon was female.

    I wish I could find the link, but I read one woman's reasoned defense of keeping the vote for men based on the idea that when men only had the right to vote they represented their entire family, not just themselves. And that had the additional advantage of making men think more seriously about their own vote.

    Glad to hear about Ann Coulter, she's one cool cookie with a great legal mind.

    By the way, I'm still scratching my head over how we reached the stage of allowing people who pay nothing in the way of income taxes to vote. There must have been some really crazy politicking going on to convince people that was a smart thing to do.

    I wish I could find the link, but I read one woman’s reasoned defense of keeping the vote for men based on the idea that when men only had the right to vote they represented their entire family, not just themselves. And that had the additional advantage of making men think more seriously about their own vote.

    This may not be the essay you remember, but it is an interesting look at those women who opposed the suffrage movement and their reasons:

    Women Against Suffrage by Helen Andrews.

    Some excerpts:

    [W]hen democracy was considered a means and not an end, it was thought to be a bad idea to have a large segment of the population that was entitled to vote but habitually did not. Such blocs would be a temptation to demagogues and would mean that, in times of crisis, elections would be decided by the inexperienced, the injudicious, and the excitable. Thus, when anti-suffragists claimed that women should not have the vote because most did not want it, they were not suggesting that suffrage would be a waste—they meant it would be dangerous.

    Another argument was the general desirability of small electorates. Common sense decreed that elections should not involve any more voters than are necessary to obtain a good result. Large constituencies devalue each individual’s vote, and they lend themselves to mass-advertising-style tactics rather than true deliberation. If women’s interests were protected well enough by men—and Parliament had passed a good deal of feminist legislation since the Married Women’s Property Act 1870—then safer to keep the electorate small.

    Read More
  221. @Jim Don Bob
    Make that 4, unless the woman has a real job, like the Verizon woman in the boom truck who fixed my Fios last week. Women in white collar jobs don't know anything about how the world works, but they think they do.

    Women in white collar jobs don’t know anything about how the world works, but they think they do.

    I know, I’ve watched them try, as they insist that they do.
    It’s invariably hilarious. Who tells them this rubbish? It’s quite dangerous occasionally.

    Read More
  222. @dc.sunsets

    The only absolute loser is the center.
     
    I've predicted and observed this for some time.

    For a long period you watched Political Triangulation work. It targeted the "muddy middle," the weakly-held but otherwise common catechism of most Americans.

    The period of this ended in 2000. Since then, political polarization is increased. This is again PREDICTABLE. The weakly-believed "muddy middle" is fracturing, and people are moving away from it to form new, adversarial belief-camps whose members are very zealous.

    Predictable. As I said. And nowhere near completion. I've stated for some time that the coming conflagration will in all likelihood behave like a resumption of the English Civil War.

    Oh goody. Do I get to wear a ruff?

    Read More
  223. Corvinus says:
    @ATX Hipster

    I don’t post there. I believe a “Corvo”, however, is a regular guest.
     
    A site search turns up both, although I don't think there's anything attributed to a Corvinus more recent than a couple years ago. Since you mention that site frequently I'm assuming it's you.

    I don't keep up with that site or Heartiste's family situation. If he doesn't want children, then for the sake of his hypothetical kids he shouldn't have them. I stumbled across your posts over there following a link to something posted by our very own Whorefinder, and things started making sense.

    My guess is you found the red pill/manosphere out of frustration with women, ended up being unsuccessful learning game, and became disillusioned with the whole thing.

    “A site search turns up both, although I don’t think there’s anything attributed to a Corvinus more recent than a couple years ago. Since you mention that site frequently I’m assuming it’s you.”

    Nope, not me.

    “I don’t keep up with that site or Heartiste’s family situation. If he doesn’t want children, then for the sake of his hypothetical kids he shouldn’t have them.”

    Then would not Heartiste be a enemy to the vitality of Western Civilization?

    “I stumbled across your posts over there following a link to something posted by our very own Whorefinder, and things started making sense.”

    There’s another fine fella who has no white wife nor offspring. Sense a pattern here?

    “My guess is you found the red pill/manosphere out of frustration with women, ended up being unsuccessful learning game, and became disillusioned with the whole thing.”

    Son, my buddies and I practiced “game” in high school and college LONG before Heartiste and his company wrote about their alleged exploits.

    Read More
  224. […] —> Women should be like men —> men are not needed as men —> men stop producing, creating, dominating, heterosexual nature —> men become aimless, play things, effeminate, […]

    Read More

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