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From the New York Times:

Sexism and Shopping: Female Players Get Most of the Odd Questions at the U.S. Open

Sendhil Mullainathan @m_sendhil SEPT. 8, 2017

One of the questions Elina Svitolina fielded after a recent victory at the U.S. Open: “Was there anything in particular you bought when you went shopping?”

The tennis finals of the United States Open are Saturday for the women and Sunday for the men. On the court, except for the number of sets, they all face the same rules. When they walk off the court, though, the game changes.

Two years ago, Serena Williams was asked why she wasn’t smiling — a question some felt no one would have asked a man.

Last winter at the Australian Open, sportswriters could have asked Serena a question that, due to society’s socially constructed prejudices, they’d never ever ask a male tennis player: “Are you pregnant?”

(Congratulations to Serena and her fiance Alexis Ohanian, Reddit co-founder, on their first child.)

After the Australian Open in 2012, another player was asked, “After practice, can you put tennis a little bit behind you and have dinner, shopping, have a little bit of fun?” It is not hard to guess the gender of that player.

Liye Fu, Cristian Danescu-Niculescu-Mizil and Lillian Lee, three computer scientists at Cornell, built algorithms to find out whether such examples were isolated incidents or reflective of a broader pattern. These algorithms processed the language in tens of thousands of questions spanning thousands of matches over 15 years and looked for how their content differed between genders.

Their work is interesting even if you have no interest in tennis, and not just because it reveals the subtle and persistent gender bias in our society.

Why doesn’t this article mention the gender of the reporters who asked women tennis players questions not about tennis?

Could it possibly be that women reporters assigned to cover tennis are less interested on average in tennis than are their male tennis reporter colleagues?

In general, women tend to be generalist in their interests and less often narrowly focused obsessives than men are.

For example, what percentage of sports reporters who are interested in advanced sports statistical analyses are female?

On the other hand, there are some fields where women tend to be more technically focused than men are.

For example, male rock fans almost never ask, say, Mick Jagger any technical questions about his singing technique. To men, that Sir Mick gets all the benefits of being a famous singer without actually going through the trouble of being a very good singer is just part of his overall Jaggerosity, which is what men find interesting.

Or as we recently discovered, you can win the Nobel Prize for your singing even if you can’t sing, as long as you are a guy.

In contrast, at various points in pop music history, such as the late 20th century, the era of Whitney Houston, Celine Dion, and Mariah Carey, extraordinary technical / athletic ability in singing was prized by female fans.

For example, I was always baffled by the popularity of singer Tracy Chapman, whose “Fast Car” might be the most depressing song I’ve ever heard:

Being a semi-deracinated black lesbian folk singer with a terrible job sounds extraordinarily sad to me. But, this video has 55 million views, which is a lot. By way of comparison, none of the versions that I can find of the Rolling Stone’s 1978 FM hit “Shattered” (which I’ve always assumed is Jagger’s New York tribute to an even worse singing male icon, Lou Reed) has even a million views.

What’s going on? Well, it was explained to me, Chapman might not be good looking or energetic, but she is a virtuoso (virtuosa?) at a particular type of chest voice singing involving manipulating the column of air flowing from the lungs.

 
    []
  1. prosa123 says: • Website

    I find it amusing, in a stereotypical sense, that the two women’s finalists are named Madison and Sloane.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Buzz Mohawk
    Last night's match between Sloane and Venus was a good one.
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  2. Funny, I’ve always liked this song, and deracinated black lesbians are pretty much my favourite kind of black person, especially at night in rough areas. It’s all the other kinds thar REALLY leave you wishing for a fast car.

    Read More
  3. Forbes says:

    Gosh, maybe there IS something to the idea that men and women are different–genetically, physiologically, biologically, psychologically, having different interests and preferences, desires and pursuits, ambitions and attractions. And those differences extend to both the sporting athletes and their fans, including media reporters who cover the game.

    Naaaaaaaaaaaaa.

    Read More
  4. @prosa123
    I find it amusing, in a stereotypical sense, that the two women's finalists are named Madison and Sloane.

    Last night’s match between Sloane and Venus was a good one.

    Read More
  5. The wonderful Czech, Petra Kvitova, lost to Venus Williams in the quarterfinals. In her post game interview, she freely admitted to loving shopping. She was spotted doing just that here at the nearby Stamford, Connecticut Mall.

    It was the woman interviewer who had seen her at the mall and raised the subject.

    Kvitova (love that name for some reason) lives in Monaco for tax reasons. One wonders what she can find at the Stamford Mall that she can’t find at the shops in Monaco.

    She suffered a cut hand defending herself against a knife-wielding burglar and had to recover before playing tennis again.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Buzz Mohawk
    Bad, obsessive writer's clarification: Kvitova fought off the attacker last year in Prague, not this week in the Stamford Mall. lol !
    , @Clyde

    Petra Kvitova (love that name for some reason) lives in Monaco for tax reasons. One wonders what she can find at the Stamford Mall that she can’t find at the shops in Monaco.
     
    6ft tall btw..... Prices have to be a lot better than Monaco or anywhere in Europe. Or she can get it on ebay Amazon etc and get stuff cheaper, haul it back to her lo-tax abode in Monaco.
  6. Lot says:

    “Fast Car” might be the most depressing song I’ve ever heard

    I bet if you think about it you can come up with worse. At least a poor grocery clerk in Fast Cars can walk and drive.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johnny_I_Hardly_Knew_Ye

    Where are the legs with which you run,
    Hurroo Hurroo
    Where are the legs with which you run,
    Hurroo Hurroo
    Where are the legs with which you run,
    When first you went to carry a gun
    Indeed your dancing days are done
    Johnny, I hardly knew ya

    You hadn’t an arm, you hadn’t a leg,
    Hurroo Hurroo
    You hadn’t an arm, you hadn’t a leg,
    Hurroo Hurroo
    You hadn’t an arm, you hadn’t a leg
    You’re a spinless, boneless, chickenless egg
    You’ll have to be put with the bowl to beg
    Johnny, I hardly knew ya

    Read More
    • Replies: @Randal
    "Imagine" by the execrable John Lennon is so much more depressing than either of those songs, on several levels (including its ubiquity).
    , @Daniel Williams
    There's a Strine version, too: "And the Band Played Waltzing Matilda". Poor guy only loses his legs, though: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E22gszljklc

    There's a Turkish connection, too. The conspiracy deepens...
    , @Achmed E. Newman
    You guys really want depressing? Listen to Terry Jack's "Seasons in the Sun" I didn't embed it below for 2 reasons:

    A) I am apparently an unembeddable human being in Ron Unz's eyes for the rest of the evening (or am I taking it too personal?)

    B) I like most of the commenters and don't want to read a comment Monday morning from a spouse or other next of kin about how so-and-so swallowed a bottle of pills ("Bottle of reds... oh... bottle of whites, whatever kind of mood you're in tonight ...." - now there's some great lyrics (Billy Joel)) and "I am on here just to say goodbye and how much so-and-so loved to comment on iSteve." "He was a lonely duck, and you guys were his BFF's" Hahahaaa, I'm cracking myself up into tears here. Good night.
    , @Mr. Anon
    Barrett's Privateers, in a similar vein to the song you mentioned, would be strong contender for "most depressing song"

    Barrett's Privateers

    Here sung by the late canadian folk-singer, Stan Rogers, whose voice resembled (to me at least) that of Orson Welles.
  7. Fredrik says:

    Regarding female sports journalists I wonder how many of them are sideline reporters, i.e. women employed for their looks and personality.

    Read More
    • Replies: @JW Bell
    All. It's like fox news with the blond female television anchors.
    , @Kevin O'Keeffe
    Nearly all of them?
  8. p s c says:

    Sloane Stephens has a great athletic pedigree. Her dad played RB in the NFL and her mom was an All-America swimmer at Boston U.

    Her brother is a basketball and football player at Steve Sailer’s high school alma mater in LA.

    Read More
  9. Tracy Chapman was the Joan Armatrading of the 80s (and Joan was IIRC pretty Sapphic herself)

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joan_Armatrading

    Read More
    • Replies: @Daniel Williams
    I'll see your Joan Armatrading and raise you a Janis Ian—she's a lez, she's black, and she's got a pretty depressing signature hit, "At Seventeen": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ESS0eKJpEZQ

    And those of us with ravaged faces
    Lacking in the social graces
    Desperately remained at home
    Inventing lovers on the phone
    Who called to say "come dance with me"
    And murmured vague obscenities

    Joan's other material was mainly pretty upbeat (I'm a big fan). Who knows what Janis Ian's other songs are like...

    , @Anonymouse
    Yes I find Joan and Tracy very appealing (very similar sound). Both would be white males if they could. But they can't. So sad! They sing of sadness and loss. What's not to like?
  10. @Buzz Mohawk
    The wonderful Czech, Petra Kvitova, lost to Venus Williams in the quarterfinals. In her post game interview, she freely admitted to loving shopping. She was spotted doing just that here at the nearby Stamford, Connecticut Mall.

    It was the woman interviewer who had seen her at the mall and raised the subject.

    Kvitova (love that name for some reason) lives in Monaco for tax reasons. One wonders what she can find at the Stamford Mall that she can't find at the shops in Monaco.

    She suffered a cut hand defending herself against a knife-wielding burglar and had to recover before playing tennis again.

    Bad, obsessive writer’s clarification: Kvitova fought off the attacker last year in Prague, not this week in the Stamford Mall. lol !

    Read More
    • Replies: @Barnard
    She has a great comeback story, I was hoping she would beat Venus. It does make me wonder about Eastern European crime rates however.
  11. Randal says:
    @Lot

    “Fast Car” might be the most depressing song I’ve ever heard
     
    I bet if you think about it you can come up with worse. At least a poor grocery clerk in Fast Cars can walk and drive.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johnny_I_Hardly_Knew_Ye

    Where are the legs with which you run,
    Hurroo Hurroo
    Where are the legs with which you run,
    Hurroo Hurroo
    Where are the legs with which you run,
    When first you went to carry a gun
    Indeed your dancing days are done
    Johnny, I hardly knew ya

    You hadn't an arm, you hadn't a leg,
    Hurroo Hurroo
    You hadn't an arm, you hadn't a leg,
    Hurroo Hurroo
    You hadn't an arm, you hadn't a leg
    You're a spinless, boneless, chickenless egg
    You'll have to be put with the bowl to beg
    Johnny, I hardly knew ya
     

    “Imagine” by the execrable John Lennon is so much more depressing than either of those songs, on several levels (including its ubiquity).

    Read More
    • Replies: @Thirdeye
    When I first heard that piece of pretentious, sophomoric, fake-innocent, messianic, and downright unmusical piece of rubbish I knew Lennon was past his sell-by date. But it came to define him and his fans afterward were generally people off in la-la land. Mark David Chapman didn't surprise me a bit.
    , @Sue D. Nim
    Another version of "Imagine" - an antidote to the awful John Lennon crap:

    www.youtube.com/watch?v=VOmiHTKHbNs

    I like to think the old hippy is turning in his grave.
    , @Mr. Anon

    “Imagine” by the execrable John Lennon is so much more depressing than either of those songs, on several levels (including its ubiquity).
     
    Indeed. At least A Perfect Circle captured the right tone for it:

    A Perfect Circle - Imagine


    John Lennon may have been a creep, but he was still a talented musician. The combination of creep / talented artist is not exactly a rare one. For my money, Lennon's best post-Beatles song was

    Watching the Wheels
  12. guest says:

    I don’t know about Chapman in particular. The suggestion that people are listening for her singing technique seems odd to me. Maybe lesbo depression rock is popular now. If YouTube viewers are clicking on her to learn about her technique, is that something females are more likely to be interested in?

    We are living through an era with a dearth of popular male vocal virtuosos. But these things run in cycles, I think. Not long ago there was a dominant rock subgenre dedicated to male screeching virtuosity known as heavy metal. Mick Jagger may just be a bad example to pick. Why not pick a male with actual technique, like, I don’t know, Aaron Neville?

    An interesting question might be: long-term, which group has the bigger claim to public attention for singing,
    males or females? My guess would be males, because though men are attracted to lady singers they don’t swoon over them like girls do their pop idols. Certainly not in isolation from other factors. Maybe “all things being equal” men are attracted to Linda Ronstadt’s voice. But they wouldn’t be if she looked like Linda Tripp.

    Then again, men lack the storied tradition of the Prima Donna and the Diva.

    Then again again, is there anything in female singing history to compare to the Castrato?

    If I go back prior to the era of modern recording techniques, most all virtuosic names I’d recognize would be male. Starting with the Great Caruso in the modern era, again, most of them would be male.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    "Mick Jagger may just be a bad example to pick. Why not pick a male with actual technique, like, I don’t know, Aaron Neville?"

    Well, because Sir Mick sang "Satisfaction" and Aaron Neville sang a moody jingle from the Cotton Advisory Council?

    , @Anon 2
    And before Caruso there was the Polish opera
    superstar of the late 19th century - Jean de Reszke
    (born Jan Reszke) (1850-1925). He and his famous
    siblings were born in Warsaw but performed mostly
    in Western Europe and in New York. Unfortunately,
    few recordings of his magnificent tenor survive. YouTube
    has some and Wikipedia has a nice bio.

    During the fin-de-siècle period Polish performers such
    as de Reszke and the pianist Paderewski were famous
    for their dramatic flair. Even Diaghilev's Ballet Russe
    sought Polish dancers for highly dramatic roles,
    and not just Vaslav Nijinsky, but many others.
    , @jim jones
    Female hysteria is terrifying:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M6DfG7sml-Q
    , @E. Rekshun
    men are attracted to Linda Ronstadt’s voice.

    https://youtu.be/haZPPBJC8Ic?t=1

  13. Cristian Danescu-Niculescu-Mizil

    What’s with the triple surname? Is this a European thing, or is Cristian the product of one of those three-parent unions that Drudge was fussing about a few weeks ago? If so, how did this entity mature so fast?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Hibernian
    In some Hispanic cultures there are three surnames including one which I guess may be the maiden name of one of the grandmothers; Che Guevara was, officially, Ernetsto Guevara de la Cerna y Lynch. (An Irish town, home to the Lynches I think, honored him with a statue, or at least some leftists in the town wanted to.)
  14. kihowi says:

    I think you’re wrong. No woman is really interested in singing technique, unless you’re dealing with opera singers. Whenever women talk about technical details when there’s a woman involved it’s another way of boasting about grrrrrlpower and Not Needing No Man. Mucho extra points when she’s black, of course.

    In fact, take any objectivity where success can be objectively measured that’s dominated by men (all of them) and the moment a woman starts doing moderately well, women everywhere will suddenly have had interest in the obscure technical details of that field for years. Years!

    The answer to the question “which technical topics interest women more than men” is: none.

    Read More
  15. @YetAnotherAnon
    Tracy Chapman was the Joan Armatrading of the 80s (and Joan was IIRC pretty Sapphic herself)

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U3ppBn_J7_w

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joan_Armatrading

    I’ll see your Joan Armatrading and raise you a Janis Ian—she’s a lez, she’s black, and she’s got a pretty depressing signature hit, “At Seventeen”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ESS0eKJpEZQ

    And those of us with ravaged faces
    Lacking in the social graces
    Desperately remained at home
    Inventing lovers on the phone
    Who called to say “come dance with me”
    And murmured vague obscenities

    Joan’s other material was mainly pretty upbeat (I’m a big fan). Who knows what Janis Ian’s other songs are like…

    Read More
    • Replies: @SND

    Janis Ian—she’s a lez, she’s black, and she’s got a pretty depressing signature hit
     
    Well, I guess Janis is about as black as any curly-headed Jewish kid from Jersey.
    , @Achmed E. Newman
    Now, that WAS a pretty depressing one, if you were a girl or woman, I will admit. She could have brightened it up somehow, maybe a little more cowbell.
    , @Expletive Deleted
    Perhaps they are all stylistic offspring of their grandmammy Nina Simone?
    , @ScarletNumber
    Many years ago, Jerry Seinfeld was dating a 17 year old girl. Howard Stern was inspired to write rewrite the lyrics of At Seventeen to commemorate this. Janis Ian came on the show and was a good enough sport to sing the rewritten song.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_K3_6TnpVDQ
  16. Not all the girls are technically good:

    Read More
    • Replies: @2Mintzin1
    Funny thing is, a friend of mine met up with her informally a few years ago (he knew somebody from her business staff)... he played the piano for her and she sang along for a short while...he said she had quite a good voice. Not necessarily Aretha-quality, but a professional sound, on-key.

    What none of these pop divas CAN do is sing accurately and dance at the same time...this ain't Broadway, where the singing numbers are carefully composed & choreographed to allow both.

    The electronic support at a modern "concert" makes the pop performers lazy, and the result is on this video.
    , @2Mintzin1
    A friend of mine, a semi-pro musician, met Spears informally a couple of years ago (he knew some of her business staff)...he played the piano for her and she sang a little. He said she had a good voice, not Aretha-quality, but a professional sound and on-key. That surprised me.

    What none of the pop divas CAN do is to dance and sing accurately for an extended number. This ain't Broadway, where the songs are carefully composed and choreographed (and the performers are carefully chosen) to allow this.

    A modern pop act has so much electronic support that divas tend to get careless...with the results depicted in this video.
    Wonder how the isolated track was obtained? This is a real Milli Vanilli moment for Spears.
  17. Peterike says:

    The most depressing song ever is “Waltzing Matilda ” by The Pogues. And nothing is even a close second. What other song sums up the demise of the greatest civilization in history in about eight minutes?

    Read More
    • Replies: @prosa123
    "The most depressing song ever is “Waltzing Matilda ” by The Pogues. And nothing is even a close second. What other song sums up the demise of the greatest civilization in history in about eight minutes?"

    Not that the original Waltzing Matilda is any better. It may be a funny song, but it's about suicide.
    , @Dr. X

    The most depressing song ever is “Waltzing Matilda ” by The Pogues. And nothing is even a close second.
     
    I don't know about that. Where, Oh Where Can My Baby Be has got to give just about anything out there a pretty stiff challenge for "Most Depressing Song Ever."
    , @Clifford Brown

    The most depressing song ever is “Waltzing Matilda ” by The Pogues. And nothing is even a close second.
     
    Liam Clancy's rendition is quite moving.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PFCekeoSTwg

    Waltzing Matilda was written by Scottish Australian folk singer Eric Bolger. Bolger also wrote The Green Fields of France, another sad one that was performed by Liam Clancy.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WM_UYzUtu0w

    The Dropkick Murphy's version is also high quality.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YGneFWWNA3g

    , @sb
    Would that be " And the band played Waltzing Matilda " rather than "Waltzing Matilda " ?

    They are different songs

    Eric Bogle wrote "And the band played Waltzing Matilda "

  18. Dennis Dale says: • Website

    “Fast Car” is downright beautiful. As for its outperforming “Shattered” you must account for the fact “Shattered” is competing with the whole Stones discography, and ranks pretty low, whereas “Fast Car” is one of two songs I know by Tracy Chapman, and I can’t name the other. Comparing total views for Stones v Chapman reveals more about tastes perhaps.
    But the song’s a little masterpiece.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Zimriel
    Speaking as a Generation X-er, I second that. "Fast Car" was a GenX anthem, maybe even more than "Smells Like Teen Spirit".

    It's a song for someone who doesn't belong, who thinks they can find a place where they do belong, but where they end up is the same as where they started, so their only happy memory is when they were moving.

    Steve, you posted some comments earlier about how white Californians have decided that sending their kids out of state to other colleges is just How We Do Things Now. This applied to other states as well. The first generation to suffer from this constant dislocation of relocation is the generation which made "Fast Car" a success.
    , @guest
    Fast Car isn't beautiful, though it has a catchy guitar riff. Even when I was a kid and didn't understand the lyrics--I think I was 6 years-old when it came out--I knew it was depressing. In a literal way, not an artful way. Though it was artfully depressing, too. Just not in a way I'd consider beautiful.
    , @guest
    The other Tracy Chapman song you know, by the way, is Give Me One Reason, a groovy blues number. Much happier than Fast Car.
  19. @guest
    I don't know about Chapman in particular. The suggestion that people are listening for her singing technique seems odd to me. Maybe lesbo depression rock is popular now. If YouTube viewers are clicking on her to learn about her technique, is that something females are more likely to be interested in?

    We are living through an era with a dearth of popular male vocal virtuosos. But these things run in cycles, I think. Not long ago there was a dominant rock subgenre dedicated to male screeching virtuosity known as heavy metal. Mick Jagger may just be a bad example to pick. Why not pick a male with actual technique, like, I don't know, Aaron Neville?

    An interesting question might be: long-term, which group has the bigger claim to public attention for singing,
    males or females? My guess would be males, because though men are attracted to lady singers they don't swoon over them like girls do their pop idols. Certainly not in isolation from other factors. Maybe "all things being equal" men are attracted to Linda Ronstadt's voice. But they wouldn't be if she looked like Linda Tripp.

    Then again, men lack the storied tradition of the Prima Donna and the Diva.

    Then again again, is there anything in female singing history to compare to the Castrato?

    If I go back prior to the era of modern recording techniques, most all virtuosic names I'd recognize would be male. Starting with the Great Caruso in the modern era, again, most of them would be male.

    “Mick Jagger may just be a bad example to pick. Why not pick a male with actual technique, like, I don’t know, Aaron Neville?”

    Well, because Sir Mick sang “Satisfaction” and Aaron Neville sang a moody jingle from the Cotton Advisory Council?

    Read More
    • Replies: @guest
    Fast Car ain't exactly Satisfaction, either. Though it might not have 55 million views, either.

    Upon cursory examination, I see Tell It Like It Is has 8 million views. Not too bad, though nothing like the Inexplicable Tracy Chapman.
    , @Steve Sailer
    Here's Aaron Neville's famous cotton commercial:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5T8AnY4dJbc

    It's pretty great, but being a good singer isn't that important to guy fans.
    , @Curle
    Im usually a big fan, but Steve's all wet on this one. Jagger is an excellent stylist and understands how to make a song sound interesting, and in a way that accentuates the undergirding rythym and melody. Jagger is far more interesting a singer in this regard than anyone else referenced in this post, especially the bland and almost unlistenable Celine Dion or Whitney Houston. Same goes for Chapman. Her voice is on an order of magnitude more interesting to listen to than Dion.

    John Lennon, a remarkable vocalist, spoke to this matter occasionally noting how old American Hillbilly and English folk singers inderstood the importance of adopting imperfections to enhance the sound of the song. Hank Williams was a case in point. Listen to this by the Carter family circa 1927. The flat singing is deliberate and anticipates Strawberry Fields.


    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=kcRIeIQOd14

    , @Erik L
    How about Robert Plant then? Or Freddie Mercury?
  20. @Lot

    “Fast Car” might be the most depressing song I’ve ever heard
     
    I bet if you think about it you can come up with worse. At least a poor grocery clerk in Fast Cars can walk and drive.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johnny_I_Hardly_Knew_Ye

    Where are the legs with which you run,
    Hurroo Hurroo
    Where are the legs with which you run,
    Hurroo Hurroo
    Where are the legs with which you run,
    When first you went to carry a gun
    Indeed your dancing days are done
    Johnny, I hardly knew ya

    You hadn't an arm, you hadn't a leg,
    Hurroo Hurroo
    You hadn't an arm, you hadn't a leg,
    Hurroo Hurroo
    You hadn't an arm, you hadn't a leg
    You're a spinless, boneless, chickenless egg
    You'll have to be put with the bowl to beg
    Johnny, I hardly knew ya
     

    There’s a Strine version, too: “And the Band Played Waltzing Matilda”. Poor guy only loses his legs, though: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E22gszljklc

    There’s a Turkish connection, too. The conspiracy deepens…

    Read More
    • Replies: @ATX Hipster
    I immediately thought of "The Band Played Waltzing Matilda". I'm partial to The Pogues' version. "Johnny I Hardly Knew Ye" is a good one, too.
  21. The funny thing about Jagger is that he got his singing style by copying the black voices on the American blues records he collected as a teenager. Early on he sounded downright ridiculous, and then he developed his own, weird thing.

    He’s also some kind of bisexual freak. His moves and expressions and styles were often faggy, but in ways the girls liked.

    I once knew somebody who worked with Jagger/Stones preparing a tour. He said Mick was all business, very high energy, compact with not an ounce of fat on his entire body, and radiated some kind of electricity. Unique.

    Read More
    • Replies: @JeremiahJohnbalaya
    The funny thing about Jagger

    The funny thing about the Stones is that their entire bad-boy act was suggested to them by their manager, as a way to separate themselves from the clean (at the time) Beatles image. As a kid I assumed their oddness was natural, but in retrospect i see that it's almost certainly an act. And what is really weird (sad? scary?) is to think that people would evolve and take on that kind of nonnatural persona. Jaggar seems to have done that (whereas some of the other old rockers seem fairly normal).

    (ps. I don't really know that much about the Stones as individuals. I guess Brian Jones had serious mental issues)
  22. Dennis Dale says: • Website

    Style matters more than technique. But then, Leonard Cohen would have been mocked and thrown out of American Idol tryouts.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Authenticjazzman
    Cohen, along with Lou Reed, are without a doubt the worst off-key "singers" to have ever attacked the clueless public ear, add to this Whitney Houstons horrible : "I will allways love you" and then you have the complete formula for the achievement of mass deafness of the American public.

    Contrast these talentless enemies of music with Helen Forrest or Peggy Lee, Julie London, or the Four Freshmen, the Hi-Los, and then one has a vision of music heaven as contrasted with music hell.

    Fact is these horrid "Singers" simply did not, do not understand what "On key" or "Off key" even means and they represent the decline of a geat music-loving nation into a conglomerate of ugly sounds and then we arrive at "Rap".

    Authenticjazzman "Mensa" qualified since 1973, airborne trained US Army vet, pro jazz musician, and vocalist.

    PS Chapman and Armatrading are leftist icons, sort of like the "Women are doing it for themselves" screamer T Turner, with her leather skirt and spread-legs.

  23. It’s pretty weird to pick on “Fast Car”. It’s a gentle, wistful song about wanting a better life. If that’s “depressing”, what would you make of, say, Metallica’s “One”?

    Read More
    • Replies: @guest
    Compared to a song about a guy who's just a faceless torso with no means of communication besides hitting his head on a pillow in Morse Code, Fast Car is Sugar Sugar. But I have a lower bar than that for calling something depressing.
  24. guest says:
    @Steve Sailer
    "Mick Jagger may just be a bad example to pick. Why not pick a male with actual technique, like, I don’t know, Aaron Neville?"

    Well, because Sir Mick sang "Satisfaction" and Aaron Neville sang a moody jingle from the Cotton Advisory Council?

    Fast Car ain’t exactly Satisfaction, either. Though it might not have 55 million views, either.

    Upon cursory examination, I see Tell It Like It Is has 8 million views. Not too bad, though nothing like the Inexplicable Tracy Chapman.

    Read More
  25. Mick Jagger built his success by combining his impersonation of a delta bluesman with some of the gymnastics he learned from his father, a gym teacher who had his own TV program and wrote a popular book on the subject.

    Here is young Michael’s first TV appearance.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hEOjV3Q4OJE

    Obviously a work in progress at this point, but the star quality is already there.

    Read More
  26. eded says:

    Women seem to be fairly interested in the technical aspects of figure skating and gymnastics, or at least my mother is.

    Read More
    • Replies: @AM
    "Women seem to be fairly interested in the technical aspects of figure skating and gymnastics, or at least my mother is."

    Garment construction/fashion, too. I know women like that. Dancing/
  27. SND says:
    @Daniel Williams
    I'll see your Joan Armatrading and raise you a Janis Ian—she's a lez, she's black, and she's got a pretty depressing signature hit, "At Seventeen": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ESS0eKJpEZQ

    And those of us with ravaged faces
    Lacking in the social graces
    Desperately remained at home
    Inventing lovers on the phone
    Who called to say "come dance with me"
    And murmured vague obscenities

    Joan's other material was mainly pretty upbeat (I'm a big fan). Who knows what Janis Ian's other songs are like...

    Janis Ian—she’s a lez, she’s black, and she’s got a pretty depressing signature hit

    Well, I guess Janis is about as black as any curly-headed Jewish kid from Jersey.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Daniel Williams

    I guess Janis is about as black as any curly-headed Jewish kid from Jersey.
     
    You're right! I thought she was black based on my (evidently faulty) memory of the Between The Lines cover art. But you're obviously correct.
  28. eded1 says:

    Or how about the technical aspects of quilting, crochet or other arts and crafts?

    Read More
  29. singer Tracy Chapman, whose “Fast Car” might be the most depressing song I’ve ever heard

    Awwww yeah music poast!

    Here are some great introspective “alternative rock” tunes from that era that are melancholy, about relationships and “driving.” Bougie Gen-X’ers out there, ya feel me?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bHfvXdicSfQ

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=El6Uq2u2z6A

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dsBSujiOSx4

    And of course:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4WPZMhFa84U

    Read More
  30. prosa123 says: • Website
    @Peterike
    The most depressing song ever is "Waltzing Matilda " by The Pogues. And nothing is even a close second. What other song sums up the demise of the greatest civilization in history in about eight minutes?

    “The most depressing song ever is “Waltzing Matilda ” by The Pogues. And nothing is even a close second. What other song sums up the demise of the greatest civilization in history in about eight minutes?”

    Not that the original Waltzing Matilda is any better. It may be a funny song, but it’s about suicide.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Curle
    "What other song sums up the demise of the greatest civilization in history in about eight minutes?”

    This one, The Future by Leonard Cohen:

    Things are going to slide, slide in all directions
    Won't be nothing
    Nothing you can measure anymore
    The blizzard, the blizzard of the world
    Has crossed the threshold
    And it has overturned
    The order of the soul
    When they said (they said) repent (repent), repent (repent)
    I wonder what they meant
    When they said (they said) repent (repent), repent (repent)







    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HsmWYhmTc64
  31. Congratulations to Serena and her fiance Alexis Ohanian, Reddit co-founder, on their first child.

    Congrats to them as well.

    Still … you’re a white guy, a successful internet entreprenuer, tall, not obviously ugly … and you’re marrying a few years older, mid-30s-ish, black woman who is built like a tank?

    I realize white girls are–relative to early times–no prize right now, but there are still a lot of delicious ones out there. What the heck is going on in some of these guys brains!

    Read More
    • Replies: @anonguy

    What the heck is going on in some of these guys brains!
     
    There is a cognitive shift with the younger guys, I'm convinced.

    I'm frequently seeing normal looking/acting guys in their 20s with morbidly obese women.

    They are a different people in that regard to their elders, one that values high female BMI. This isn't entirely unheard of in human societies, albeit a radical shift from 30-40 years ago in the USA.
    , @Jonathan Mason

    Still … you’re a white guy, a successful internet entreprenuer, tall, not obviously ugly … and you’re marrying a few years older, mid-30s-ish, black woman who is built like a tank?
     
    She is also one of the most famous and successful women in the world, obviously extremely rich, seems to have a pleasant personality, is perhaps a demon in bed, and you are attracted to big booty black women anyway. Also you are into tennis. Obviously you do have other choices, but she is what you like enough to have your first child with her, and you are in love with her and with the attention the world is giving you, which you only had to a much more limited extent before.
    , @Erik Sieven
    his son´s are going do be much stronger than he is, maybe thats what he aims for.
    , @bartok
    Ohanian is Armenian, like the Kardashians..
    Jews have an affinity for blacks for several reasons, one being that Jews feel greatly repressed when interacting with Whites. That's why they accuse Gentiles of being repressed, because we Whites make them feel repressed. h/t Steve Sailer on projection.
  32. Barnard says:
    @Buzz Mohawk
    Bad, obsessive writer's clarification: Kvitova fought off the attacker last year in Prague, not this week in the Stamford Mall. lol !

    She has a great comeback story, I was hoping she would beat Venus. It does make me wonder about Eastern European crime rates however.

    Read More
  33. What’s going on?

    What’s going on?? What’s going on, Steve, is that “Shattered” doesn’t hold a candle to any of the music on Hot Rocks or any of the albums that that compilation comes from.

    Oh, don’t get me wrong – the lyrics are great: “Go ahead, bite the Big Apple; don’t mind the maggots!” Yes, I’ve used that line myself (no, not a pick-up line, just to dis NYC) and a variation in which I change “maggots” around a bit. The thing is, it’s the melody first and then the sound 2nd (occasionally reversed) that make the song a good song. Lyrics are still at the bottom, as explained herein.

    (BTW, I would have checked the hits for “Satisfaction“, “Sympathy for the Devil“, or “When the Whip comes Down“, but that is not the best stat in the world, because sometimes lots of people put up the same song, and the hits get spread around. Then some get taken off “the tube”, probably when one of the Stones, cough, cough, Keith Richards, cough, needs a few extra bucks for bail money and goes on a copyright bender.)

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    One, Keef hasn't been busted for decades (I think his last bust was for H in Toronto in the seventies).

    Some Girls was the Stones' attempt at a 'punk' or 'new wave' album. Younger critics said it was about as "punk" as Barbra Streisand's Stoney End. It did have 'edgy' album cover graphics with die cut outer cover and inner sleeve with pictures underneath. Guitarwise, it had a harder, edgier sound because Keith had started using the Mesa Boogie amplifier and guitars with EMG pickups, which are usually preferred by heavy metal guitarists (Gilmour uses them, as do a lot of bar band country players because they are low impedance and very quiet). But there was no attempt to do anything as a tribute to Lou Reed on that album, or to 'take the piss on' any specific band either.

    However, Marianne Faithful could not resist a swipe at a prettier, younger new upstart. Never mind that she was actually a year and a half older....oops....

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CkHhSiJxHrQ
  34. @SND

    Janis Ian—she’s a lez, she’s black, and she’s got a pretty depressing signature hit
     
    Well, I guess Janis is about as black as any curly-headed Jewish kid from Jersey.

    I guess Janis is about as black as any curly-headed Jewish kid from Jersey.

    You’re right! I thought she was black based on my (evidently faulty) memory of the Between The Lines cover art. But you’re obviously correct.

    Read More
    • Replies: @YetAnotherAnon
    What was more likely, that "Society's Child" (a sad tale of a mother forbidding her daughter to date someone of a different race) was written by a black girl or a Jewish girl?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Janis_Ian


    "At the age of 14, Ian wrote and recorded her first hit single, "Society's Child (Baby I've Been Thinking)", about an interracial romance forbidden by a girl's mother and frowned upon by her peers and teachers. Produced by George "Shadow" Morton and released three times from 1965 to 1967, "Society's Child" became a national hit upon its third release after Leonard Bernstein featured it in a CBS TV special."
     
    Anonymouse - yes, they both have the smoky, vulnerable voice.
  35. keuril says:

    “Fast Car” has to be one of the least technical ways imaginable of describing an automobile. As I recall, this album was censored in South Korea because of the song “Talking About A Revolution.”

    Read More
  36. AM says:

    at a particular type of chest voice singing involving manipulating the column of air flowing from the lungs.

    Okay..isn’t this definition of all singing? Weird.

    Read More
  37. OK, this is from the Some Girls album, somewhat negating my point, but c’mon! Nothing fancy, just straight-up rock.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ptDz5BwAgXQ

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anon 2
    Mick Jagger once famously said, "We receive
    and we transmit," seemingly implying they were
    channelling music from the higher realms à la Mozart
  38. AM says:
    @eded
    Women seem to be fairly interested in the technical aspects of figure skating and gymnastics, or at least my mother is.

    “Women seem to be fairly interested in the technical aspects of figure skating and gymnastics, or at least my mother is.”

    Garment construction/fashion, too. I know women like that. Dancing/

    Read More
  39. @Lot

    “Fast Car” might be the most depressing song I’ve ever heard
     
    I bet if you think about it you can come up with worse. At least a poor grocery clerk in Fast Cars can walk and drive.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johnny_I_Hardly_Knew_Ye

    Where are the legs with which you run,
    Hurroo Hurroo
    Where are the legs with which you run,
    Hurroo Hurroo
    Where are the legs with which you run,
    When first you went to carry a gun
    Indeed your dancing days are done
    Johnny, I hardly knew ya

    You hadn't an arm, you hadn't a leg,
    Hurroo Hurroo
    You hadn't an arm, you hadn't a leg,
    Hurroo Hurroo
    You hadn't an arm, you hadn't a leg
    You're a spinless, boneless, chickenless egg
    You'll have to be put with the bowl to beg
    Johnny, I hardly knew ya
     

    You guys really want depressing? Listen to Terry Jack’s “Seasons in the Sun” I didn’t embed it below for 2 reasons:

    A) I am apparently an unembeddable human being in Ron Unz’s eyes for the rest of the evening (or am I taking it too personal?)

    B) I like most of the commenters and don’t want to read a comment Monday morning from a spouse or other next of kin about how so-and-so swallowed a bottle of pills (“Bottle of reds… oh… bottle of whites, whatever kind of mood you’re in tonight ….” – now there’s some great lyrics (Billy Joel)) and “I am on here just to say goodbye and how much so-and-so loved to comment on iSteve.” “He was a lonely duck, and you guys were his BFF’s” Hahahaaa, I’m cracking myself up into tears here. Good night.

    Read More
  40. @Steve Sailer
    "Mick Jagger may just be a bad example to pick. Why not pick a male with actual technique, like, I don’t know, Aaron Neville?"

    Well, because Sir Mick sang "Satisfaction" and Aaron Neville sang a moody jingle from the Cotton Advisory Council?

    Here’s Aaron Neville’s famous cotton commercial:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5T8AnY4dJbc

    It’s pretty great, but being a good singer isn’t that important to guy fans.

    Read More
    • Replies: @vinny
    And, famously, Bob Dylan.
    , @Achmed E. Newman

    ... but being a good singer isn’t that important to guy fans.
     
    Exactly. For example, Bono would most likely being serving chips at some hole-in-the wall in County Cork if it weren't for The Edge and his great guitar.

    Now John Fogerty is a guy whose singing I do appreciate. His was the best voice ever in rock and roll, in my opinion. He had a great band too, but that voice is terrific.

    Just in pop music in general, I would say the smoothest, best voice ever was by a man named Gerry Rafferty (RIP). I wish I could embed here, but it'll just be a link, I guess. Watch and listen to Gerry and the band and the "Days Gone Down":

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_4T0czSPrg
    , @Buddwing
    I always felt that Ritchie Havens was the greater Cotton singer. Smoother and less mannered.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nZD5nixUMpk

    It is a shame that Jagger never sang about Cotton.
  41. Most depressing song by a Nobel Prize-winner who can’t sing:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y6_lCjXnAPg

    Read More
    • Replies: @Paul Rise
    My nomination for most depressing song - ,Tomorrow Wendy by Concrete Blonde -

    https://vimeo.com/113113275
  42. Zimriel says: • Website
    @Dennis Dale
    "Fast Car" is downright beautiful. As for its outperforming "Shattered" you must account for the fact "Shattered" is competing with the whole Stones discography, and ranks pretty low, whereas "Fast Car" is one of two songs I know by Tracy Chapman, and I can't name the other. Comparing total views for Stones v Chapman reveals more about tastes perhaps.
    But the song's a little masterpiece.

    Speaking as a Generation X-er, I second that. “Fast Car” was a GenX anthem, maybe even more than “Smells Like Teen Spirit”.

    It’s a song for someone who doesn’t belong, who thinks they can find a place where they do belong, but where they end up is the same as where they started, so their only happy memory is when they were moving.

    Steve, you posted some comments earlier about how white Californians have decided that sending their kids out of state to other colleges is just How We Do Things Now. This applied to other states as well. The first generation to suffer from this constant dislocation of relocation is the generation which made “Fast Car” a success.

    Read More
    • Replies: @AnotherDad

    The first generation to suffer from this constant dislocation of relocation is the generation which made “Fast Car” a success.
     
    Huh?

    The joke when I was a kid was IBM stood for "I've been moved".

    Dad getting moved around by his big corporation was a pretty ho-hum, run of the mill baby-boomer experience. At least for those with college educated--engineer, marketing, finance, managerial--corporate employee (or of course military) parents.

    My understanding--which could be entirely wrong--is that middle class families are actually a little bit less likely to move (at least move from a metro area) this past generation as they often are two-income families and it's a bit harder to transplant both of them.
    , @Dennis Dale
    It's an interesting juxtaposition, Teen Spirit and Fast Car.
    Cobain laments bourgeois culture. His high school is like Foucault's prison, a macrocosm of society exposing the power relationships and madness. He doesn't want to be normal.

    Chapman depicts someone striving for normality, in what I think is a profoundly tragic little phrase, to simply "be someone"; to just have a job, a house, kids. The tragedy is in you knowing she won't get there, event though she doesn't say that--the guitar hook does.

    Cobain shrinks away to nothing in the comparison.

    , @TheUmpteenthGermanOnHere
    O.k., so I am German and only came to the U.S. as a student. But this here:
    "The first generation to suffer from this constant dislocation of relocation..." - isn't that just plain incorrect statistically? I once came upon a book from the 1950s by an author who seems to have been rather famous - Vance Packard - that contained quite a bit of data about how the white-collar American middle class moved like seven times more often than their European counterparts. O.k., even if it was only five times more often, that would be rather a lot. That appears to have changed post-financial crisis but was typically presented as the labour-market immobility argument against the Euro in the early 2000s.
    , @Thea
    I'm surprised Steve doesn't relate to his song. It really resonates with the modern alienation he writes about
  43. njguy73 says:

    I was always baffled by the popularity of singer Tracy Chapman, whose “Fast Car” might be the most depressing song I’ve ever heard:

    In 1988, anything not by a hair-metal band was a refreshing change of pace.

    Read More
  44. Paul Rise says:
    @Buzz Mohawk
    Most depressing song by a Nobel Prize-winner who can't sing:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y6_lCjXnAPg

    My nomination for most depressing song – ,Tomorrow Wendy by Concrete Blonde –

    Read More
  45. vinny says:
    @Steve Sailer
    Here's Aaron Neville's famous cotton commercial:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5T8AnY4dJbc

    It's pretty great, but being a good singer isn't that important to guy fans.

    And, famously, Bob Dylan.

    Read More
  46. I dunno, “Fast Car” is just a good song. It’s sad in that way you want a pop song to be.

    Read More
  47. JW Bell says:
    @Fredrik
    Regarding female sports journalists I wonder how many of them are sideline reporters, i.e. women employed for their looks and personality.

    All. It’s like fox news with the blond female television anchors.

    Read More
  48. anonguy says:
    @AnotherDad

    Congratulations to Serena and her fiance Alexis Ohanian, Reddit co-founder, on their first child.
     
    Congrats to them as well.

    Still ... you're a white guy, a successful internet entreprenuer, tall, not obviously ugly ... and you're marrying a few years older, mid-30s-ish, black woman who is built like a tank?

    I realize white girls are--relative to early times--no prize right now, but there are still a lot of delicious ones out there. What the heck is going on in some of these guys brains!

    What the heck is going on in some of these guys brains!

    There is a cognitive shift with the younger guys, I’m convinced.

    I’m frequently seeing normal looking/acting guys in their 20s with morbidly obese women.

    They are a different people in that regard to their elders, one that values high female BMI. This isn’t entirely unheard of in human societies, albeit a radical shift from 30-40 years ago in the USA.

    Read More
  49. Curle says:
    @Steve Sailer
    "Mick Jagger may just be a bad example to pick. Why not pick a male with actual technique, like, I don’t know, Aaron Neville?"

    Well, because Sir Mick sang "Satisfaction" and Aaron Neville sang a moody jingle from the Cotton Advisory Council?

    Im usually a big fan, but Steve’s all wet on this one. Jagger is an excellent stylist and understands how to make a song sound interesting, and in a way that accentuates the undergirding rythym and melody. Jagger is far more interesting a singer in this regard than anyone else referenced in this post, especially the bland and almost unlistenable Celine Dion or Whitney Houston. Same goes for Chapman. Her voice is on an order of magnitude more interesting to listen to than Dion.

    John Lennon, a remarkable vocalist, spoke to this matter occasionally noting how old American Hillbilly and English folk singers inderstood the importance of adopting imperfections to enhance the sound of the song. Hank Williams was a case in point. Listen to this by the Carter family circa 1927. The flat singing is deliberate and anticipates Strawberry Fields.

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=kcRIeIQOd14

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anonymous

    Im usually a big fan, but Steve’s all wet on this one. Jagger is an excellent stylist and understands how to make a song sound interesting, and in a way that accentuates the undergirding rythym and melody. Jagger is far more interesting a singer in this regard than anyone else referenced in this post, especially the bland and almost unlistenable Celine Dion or Whitney Houston. Same goes for Chapman. Her voice is on an order of magnitude more interesting to listen to than Dion.
     
    To use an old term, Jagger is a mediocre singer as such but a superb "song stylist": moreover he is the canonical rock and roll front person. After Jagger, there are maybe two dozen men and maybe, not quite, a half dozen women who can really front a rock and roll band.

    And he and his band are a perfect fit, maybe not in the Brian Jones era, but by the early seventies they had morphed into a unit. The rhythm section of Watts, Wyman and Richards was like nothing before or since, and although Mick Taylor was technically a superior lead guitarist , Ronnie and Keith were able to function as a second unit-you didn't have a lead and a rhythm guitar player at that point, they traded off seamlessly. Ronnie always played in standard tuning except for slide, Keith tended to work in open tunings, which gave some harmonies no one could have planned and which were sometimes astonishingly powerful.
    , @sayless
    The flat singing is deliberate and anticipates Strawberry Fields.

    Thanks for that.

    Johnny Cash tended to sing sharp and it sounded just right.

    There's a nice clip of him on the net, smoking a cigarette and lying on A.P.'s grave.
  50. cthulhu says:

    Try Jim Carroll’s “People Who Died” for depressing…

    Chapman’s biggest hit was probably “Give Me One Reason”, a hopeful if not exactly happy 12-bar blues with some slightly different chord changes than the standard I-IV-V. I encountered it at a jam once; fortunately the other guitarist on stage knew it and was able to get me going pretty quickly with the right changes.

    Blind Faith’s “Can’t Find My Way Home” is pretty depressing too, but a beautiful melody and an absolutely heartbreaking vocal by the great, great Steve Winwood.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Dennis Dale
    Yeah, but the effect of "People Who Died" is energizing because of the music. Even his delivery contradicts the bleak lyrics--it's a great sing-a-long. I love hearing that song.

    Leonard Cohen's "Dress Rehearsal Rag" is the official Most Depressing Song Ever in my opinion. And, yes, it's another masterpiece. The embed below probably won't work:

    https://youtu.be/AhVW0vMljP8

  51. @Steve Sailer
    Here's Aaron Neville's famous cotton commercial:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5T8AnY4dJbc

    It's pretty great, but being a good singer isn't that important to guy fans.

    … but being a good singer isn’t that important to guy fans.

    Exactly. For example, Bono would most likely being serving chips at some hole-in-the wall in County Cork if it weren’t for The Edge and his great guitar.

    Now John Fogerty is a guy whose singing I do appreciate. His was the best voice ever in rock and roll, in my opinion. He had a great band too, but that voice is terrific.

    Just in pop music in general, I would say the smoothest, best voice ever was by a man named Gerry Rafferty (RIP). I wish I could embed here, but it’ll just be a link, I guess. Watch and listen to Gerry and the band and the “Days Gone Down”:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_4T0czSPrg

    Read More
  52. @Daniel Williams
    I'll see your Joan Armatrading and raise you a Janis Ian—she's a lez, she's black, and she's got a pretty depressing signature hit, "At Seventeen": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ESS0eKJpEZQ

    And those of us with ravaged faces
    Lacking in the social graces
    Desperately remained at home
    Inventing lovers on the phone
    Who called to say "come dance with me"
    And murmured vague obscenities

    Joan's other material was mainly pretty upbeat (I'm a big fan). Who knows what Janis Ian's other songs are like...

    Now, that WAS a pretty depressing one, if you were a girl or woman, I will admit. She could have brightened it up somehow, maybe a little more cowbell.

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  53. I was reading a gun magazine letters to the editor column and one letter was asking the editor why there weren’t more articles of interest to women. The editor responded that not ONCE in his entire career had he ever received a letter from a female!

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  54. Curle says:
    @prosa123
    "The most depressing song ever is “Waltzing Matilda ” by The Pogues. And nothing is even a close second. What other song sums up the demise of the greatest civilization in history in about eight minutes?"

    Not that the original Waltzing Matilda is any better. It may be a funny song, but it's about suicide.

    “What other song sums up the demise of the greatest civilization in history in about eight minutes?”

    This one, The Future by Leonard Cohen:

    Things are going to slide, slide in all directions
    Won’t be nothing
    Nothing you can measure anymore
    The blizzard, the blizzard of the world
    Has crossed the threshold
    And it has overturned
    The order of the soul
    When they said (they said) repent (repent), repent (repent)
    I wonder what they meant
    When they said (they said) repent (repent), repent (repent)

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HsmWYhmTc64

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    • Replies: @oddsbodkins
    That, or "Everybody knows"

    But I think "Fiddle about" by The Who might be the most depressing song ever.
  55. Veritatis says:

    It seems nobody, not even the author, was interested in answering the question posing as title of the article. Or was it a male rant?

    Anyway, definition of technology:
    1
    a : the practical application of knowledge especially in a particular area : engineering 2 medical technology
    b : a capability given by the practical application of knowledge a car’s fuel-saving technology
    2
    : a manner of accomplishing a task especially using technical processes, methods, or knowledge new technologies for information storage.

    I’ll take the second definition, but am not sure I have a “the good if brief, is twice good” answer. I’d guess women have interest in capably applying knowledge to “the art of harmonious living”: how to get nutritious food on the table, how to negotiate a raise, how to chose a school and get the kids in, how to get the husband or child to pitch in, etc. Something more properly “technical” would be personal appearance.

    So yes, to quote Mr Sailer, “in general, women tend to be generalist in their interests and less often narrowly focused obsessives than men are”. Another fellow undestood and explained this well and generously by stating: “there must be in every center of humanity one human being upon a larger plan; one who does not ‘give her best,’ but gives her all.”

    For the complete argumentation, see The Emancipation of Domesticity:

    http://www.ignatiusinsight.com/features2007/gkchesterton_domwwww_july07.asp

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  56. Clyde says:
    @Buzz Mohawk
    The wonderful Czech, Petra Kvitova, lost to Venus Williams in the quarterfinals. In her post game interview, she freely admitted to loving shopping. She was spotted doing just that here at the nearby Stamford, Connecticut Mall.

    It was the woman interviewer who had seen her at the mall and raised the subject.

    Kvitova (love that name for some reason) lives in Monaco for tax reasons. One wonders what she can find at the Stamford Mall that she can't find at the shops in Monaco.

    She suffered a cut hand defending herself against a knife-wielding burglar and had to recover before playing tennis again.

    Petra Kvitova (love that name for some reason) lives in Monaco for tax reasons. One wonders what she can find at the Stamford Mall that she can’t find at the shops in Monaco.

    6ft tall btw….. Prices have to be a lot better than Monaco or anywhere in Europe. Or she can get it on ebay Amazon etc and get stuff cheaper, haul it back to her lo-tax abode in Monaco.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman

    Prices have to be a lot better than Monaco or anywhere in Europe. Or she can get it on ebay Amazon etc and get stuff cheaper
     
    No, no, no, all of us guys have been missing the point on this. She LIKES the actual act of GOING SHOPPING. This is really hard to understand for us. Good deal, bad deal, cash or credit, it doesn't matter. They LIKE being in the store shopping and even STAYING in the store shopping, even when you've freakin' looked at everything, and asked a bunch of question, so let's just get the hell out of ... wait, see I'm not being understanding enough, as my counselor would say. So, yeah, our brains are quite different - I don't need to look at any CAT scans to know that.
    , @Clyde
    You would think the patriarchy would get a shutout every so often for making and providing all the great things women get to go shopping for.
  57. @Curle
    "What other song sums up the demise of the greatest civilization in history in about eight minutes?”

    This one, The Future by Leonard Cohen:

    Things are going to slide, slide in all directions
    Won't be nothing
    Nothing you can measure anymore
    The blizzard, the blizzard of the world
    Has crossed the threshold
    And it has overturned
    The order of the soul
    When they said (they said) repent (repent), repent (repent)
    I wonder what they meant
    When they said (they said) repent (repent), repent (repent)







    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HsmWYhmTc64

    That, or “Everybody knows”

    But I think “Fiddle about” by The Who might be the most depressing song ever.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Curle
    Yikes! A category I'd overlooked, the child molester ouvre. Certainly Gary Glitter's 'Do You Want to Touch Me There' takes Honorable Mention?










    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=oi7ds7Lmmrk
    , @cthulhu


    But I think “Fiddle about” by The Who might be the most depressing song ever.

     

    Well, if you're going to go there, I'd pick "Cousin Kevin"; Pete Townshend had John Entwistle write that one because Townshend thought that John could write it a lot darker.

    Not on Tommy, but "Little Billy", a song commissioned from The Who by an anti-smoking group, is about an obese kid who is bullied by his schoolmates, then gets his revenge as an adult when his smoking classmates die of cancer and Billy "cares" for their kids. Townshend wrote that cheery little ditty.
    , @Brutusale
    A much darker take on the same subject by Tool's Maynard James Keenan.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KWSDZI5Tsgs

    http://www.songfacts.com/detail.php?id=2372
  58. Dr. X says:
    @Peterike
    The most depressing song ever is "Waltzing Matilda " by The Pogues. And nothing is even a close second. What other song sums up the demise of the greatest civilization in history in about eight minutes?

    The most depressing song ever is “Waltzing Matilda ” by The Pogues. And nothing is even a close second.

    I don’t know about that. Where, Oh Where Can My Baby Be has got to give just about anything out there a pretty stiff challenge for “Most Depressing Song Ever.”

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    That is a sad song. Some other depressing songs are Shannon, Mr. Bojangles, Seasons in the Sun, Alone Again Naturally, and Honey. Why did the '70s have so many sad, depressing songs?
  59. @Zimriel
    Speaking as a Generation X-er, I second that. "Fast Car" was a GenX anthem, maybe even more than "Smells Like Teen Spirit".

    It's a song for someone who doesn't belong, who thinks they can find a place where they do belong, but where they end up is the same as where they started, so their only happy memory is when they were moving.

    Steve, you posted some comments earlier about how white Californians have decided that sending their kids out of state to other colleges is just How We Do Things Now. This applied to other states as well. The first generation to suffer from this constant dislocation of relocation is the generation which made "Fast Car" a success.

    The first generation to suffer from this constant dislocation of relocation is the generation which made “Fast Car” a success.

    Huh?

    The joke when I was a kid was IBM stood for “I’ve been moved”.

    Dad getting moved around by his big corporation was a pretty ho-hum, run of the mill baby-boomer experience. At least for those with college educated–engineer, marketing, finance, managerial–corporate employee (or of course military) parents.

    My understanding–which could be entirely wrong–is that middle class families are actually a little bit less likely to move (at least move from a metro area) this past generation as they often are two-income families and it’s a bit harder to transplant both of them.

    Read More
    • Agree: Lot
    • Replies: @Buzz Mohawk
    Exactly, Dad.

    Another corporate brat here. Your description is spot on.

    It was a rich upbringing. You made friends with all kinds of smart kids whose parents were as smart as your own. You lived in good homes in nice parts of America.

    Whatever tragically hip act later generations put on about that life is pure bullshit. (And someone needs to tell them that every one of their favorite SJW causes was already old news and solved by the 1980s.)

    , @anonguy
    My understanding is that Americans are significantly less mobile than they were 20-30+ years ago.

    And after googling it, turns out American mobility has dropped off a cliff since the 1970s

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2013/05/15/the-united-states-is-still-one-of-the-most-mobile-countries-in-the-world/?utm_term=.992fcd81c1af
  60. Curle says:
    @oddsbodkins
    That, or "Everybody knows"

    But I think "Fiddle about" by The Who might be the most depressing song ever.

    Yikes! A category I’d overlooked, the child molester ouvre. Certainly Gary Glitter’s ‘Do You Want to Touch Me There’ takes Honorable Mention?

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=oi7ds7Lmmrk

    Read More
  61. @Clyde

    Petra Kvitova (love that name for some reason) lives in Monaco for tax reasons. One wonders what she can find at the Stamford Mall that she can’t find at the shops in Monaco.
     
    6ft tall btw..... Prices have to be a lot better than Monaco or anywhere in Europe. Or she can get it on ebay Amazon etc and get stuff cheaper, haul it back to her lo-tax abode in Monaco.

    Prices have to be a lot better than Monaco or anywhere in Europe. Or she can get it on ebay Amazon etc and get stuff cheaper

    No, no, no, all of us guys have been missing the point on this. She LIKES the actual act of GOING SHOPPING. This is really hard to understand for us. Good deal, bad deal, cash or credit, it doesn’t matter. They LIKE being in the store shopping and even STAYING in the store shopping, even when you’ve freakin’ looked at everything, and asked a bunch of question, so let’s just get the hell out of … wait, see I’m not being understanding enough, as my counselor would say. So, yeah, our brains are quite different – I don’t need to look at any CAT scans to know that.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Curle
    Correct. As a guy who sat through some closed door seminars on retail psychology in another life, some forms of shopping, particularly rag sales, exist because shopping is a social experience. Go to the store, see what other women are wearing, see what they are looking at, see what's available in 3-D. Have another girl tell you something looks good on you. Pretend you are doing something productive when you're goofing off in case you are avoiding housework.
  62. cthulhu says:
    @oddsbodkins
    That, or "Everybody knows"

    But I think "Fiddle about" by The Who might be the most depressing song ever.

    But I think “Fiddle about” by The Who might be the most depressing song ever.

    Well, if you’re going to go there, I’d pick “Cousin Kevin”; Pete Townshend had John Entwistle write that one because Townshend thought that John could write it a lot darker.

    Not on Tommy, but “Little Billy”, a song commissioned from The Who by an anti-smoking group, is about an obese kid who is bullied by his schoolmates, then gets his revenge as an adult when his smoking classmates die of cancer and Billy “cares” for their kids. Townshend wrote that cheery little ditty.

    Read More
  63. @AnotherDad

    The first generation to suffer from this constant dislocation of relocation is the generation which made “Fast Car” a success.
     
    Huh?

    The joke when I was a kid was IBM stood for "I've been moved".

    Dad getting moved around by his big corporation was a pretty ho-hum, run of the mill baby-boomer experience. At least for those with college educated--engineer, marketing, finance, managerial--corporate employee (or of course military) parents.

    My understanding--which could be entirely wrong--is that middle class families are actually a little bit less likely to move (at least move from a metro area) this past generation as they often are two-income families and it's a bit harder to transplant both of them.

    Exactly, Dad.

    Another corporate brat here. Your description is spot on.

    It was a rich upbringing. You made friends with all kinds of smart kids whose parents were as smart as your own. You lived in good homes in nice parts of America.

    Whatever tragically hip act later generations put on about that life is pure bullshit. (And someone needs to tell them that every one of their favorite SJW causes was already old news and solved by the 1980s.)

    Read More
  64. Anon 2 says:
    @guest
    I don't know about Chapman in particular. The suggestion that people are listening for her singing technique seems odd to me. Maybe lesbo depression rock is popular now. If YouTube viewers are clicking on her to learn about her technique, is that something females are more likely to be interested in?

    We are living through an era with a dearth of popular male vocal virtuosos. But these things run in cycles, I think. Not long ago there was a dominant rock subgenre dedicated to male screeching virtuosity known as heavy metal. Mick Jagger may just be a bad example to pick. Why not pick a male with actual technique, like, I don't know, Aaron Neville?

    An interesting question might be: long-term, which group has the bigger claim to public attention for singing,
    males or females? My guess would be males, because though men are attracted to lady singers they don't swoon over them like girls do their pop idols. Certainly not in isolation from other factors. Maybe "all things being equal" men are attracted to Linda Ronstadt's voice. But they wouldn't be if she looked like Linda Tripp.

    Then again, men lack the storied tradition of the Prima Donna and the Diva.

    Then again again, is there anything in female singing history to compare to the Castrato?

    If I go back prior to the era of modern recording techniques, most all virtuosic names I'd recognize would be male. Starting with the Great Caruso in the modern era, again, most of them would be male.

    And before Caruso there was the Polish opera
    superstar of the late 19th century – Jean de Reszke
    (born Jan Reszke) (1850-1925). He and his famous
    siblings were born in Warsaw but performed mostly
    in Western Europe and in New York. Unfortunately,
    few recordings of his magnificent tenor survive. YouTube
    has some and Wikipedia has a nice bio.

    During the fin-de-siècle period Polish performers such
    as de Reszke and the pianist Paderewski were famous
    for their dramatic flair. Even Diaghilev’s Ballet Russe
    sought Polish dancers for highly dramatic roles,
    and not just Vaslav Nijinsky, but many others.

    Read More
  65. Thirdeye says:
    @Randal
    "Imagine" by the execrable John Lennon is so much more depressing than either of those songs, on several levels (including its ubiquity).

    When I first heard that piece of pretentious, sophomoric, fake-innocent, messianic, and downright unmusical piece of rubbish I knew Lennon was past his sell-by date. But it came to define him and his fans afterward were generally people off in la-la land. Mark David Chapman didn’t surprise me a bit.

    Read More
  66. Thirdeye says:

    Tracy Chapman’s great. I liked the way she was beyond category with her down to earth style. When I first heard her my thought was that she was a lot like Joni Mitchell.

    Read More
  67. Anon says: • Disclaimer

    People of my underground musical ilk thought Chapman was a joke when she first showed up as rock critic drool-fodder. It was obvious that championing her was a SJW rock critic’s cretinous and ultimately cynical game of how many oppression tick boxes we can check off. Black, check, female, check, lesbian check, ding ding ding! We have a winner. Let’s command all the huddled masses to fall at her feet and worship her as our new messiah! There’s just one big problem with Chapman. She’s boring.

    Chapman reminds me of Berkeley Breathed’s attempt to create a comic strip (Outland) about a black ghetto girl even if it killed him, and the whole thing collapsed in a heap when Breathed realized the strip wasn’t funny and it wasn’t working.

    When SJWers try to reach personal sainthood by championing someone else, they have a tendency to fall flat on their faces.

    Read More
    • Replies: @anonguy

    Chapman reminds me of Berkeley Breathed’s attempt to create a comic strip (Outland) about a black ghetto girl even if it killed him, and the whole thing collapsed in a heap when Breathed realized the strip wasn’t funny and it wasn’t working.

    When SJWers try to reach personal sainthood by championing someone else, they have a tendency to fall flat on their faces.
     
    Breathed skews liberal, but he can be harsh on the left as well. He was always going on about "offensensitivity" way back in the 80s.

    I didn't realize it, but he's started drawing Bloom County again, since 2015.

    Now we just need Calvin & Hobbes back.
  68. Anon 2 says:
    @Achmed E. Newman
    OK, this is from the Some Girls album, somewhat negating my point, but c'mon! Nothing fancy, just straight-up rock.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ptDz5BwAgXQ

    Mick Jagger once famously said, “We receive
    and we transmit,” seemingly implying they were
    channelling music from the higher realms à la Mozart

    Read More
  69. @AnotherDad

    Congratulations to Serena and her fiance Alexis Ohanian, Reddit co-founder, on their first child.
     
    Congrats to them as well.

    Still ... you're a white guy, a successful internet entreprenuer, tall, not obviously ugly ... and you're marrying a few years older, mid-30s-ish, black woman who is built like a tank?

    I realize white girls are--relative to early times--no prize right now, but there are still a lot of delicious ones out there. What the heck is going on in some of these guys brains!

    Still … you’re a white guy, a successful internet entreprenuer, tall, not obviously ugly … and you’re marrying a few years older, mid-30s-ish, black woman who is built like a tank?

    She is also one of the most famous and successful women in the world, obviously extremely rich, seems to have a pleasant personality, is perhaps a demon in bed, and you are attracted to big booty black women anyway. Also you are into tennis. Obviously you do have other choices, but she is what you like enough to have your first child with her, and you are in love with her and with the attention the world is giving you, which you only had to a much more limited extent before.

    Read More
    • Troll: Abe
    • Replies: @Marty T
    I mean I guess to each his own. I find Madison Keys very attractive and likable. I hope she stays that way as her stardom continues to grow.
  70. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @Achmed E. Newman

    What’s going on?
     
    What's going on?? What's going on, Steve, is that "Shattered" doesn't hold a candle to any of the music on Hot Rocks or any of the albums that that compilation comes from.

    Oh, don't get me wrong - the lyrics are great: "Go ahead, bite the Big Apple; don't mind the maggots!" Yes, I've used that line myself (no, not a pick-up line, just to dis NYC) and a variation in which I change "maggots" around a bit. The thing is, it's the melody first and then the sound 2nd (occasionally reversed) that make the song a good song. Lyrics are still at the bottom, as explained herein.

    (BTW, I would have checked the hits for "Satisfaction", "Sympathy for the Devil", or "When the Whip comes Down", but that is not the best stat in the world, because sometimes lots of people put up the same song, and the hits get spread around. Then some get taken off "the tube", probably when one of the Stones, cough, cough, Keith Richards, cough, needs a few extra bucks for bail money and goes on a copyright bender.)

    One, Keef hasn’t been busted for decades (I think his last bust was for H in Toronto in the seventies).

    Some Girls was the Stones’ attempt at a ‘punk’ or ‘new wave’ album. Younger critics said it was about as “punk” as Barbra Streisand’s Stoney End. It did have ‘edgy’ album cover graphics with die cut outer cover and inner sleeve with pictures underneath. Guitarwise, it had a harder, edgier sound because Keith had started using the Mesa Boogie amplifier and guitars with EMG pickups, which are usually preferred by heavy metal guitarists (Gilmour uses them, as do a lot of bar band country players because they are low impedance and very quiet). But there was no attempt to do anything as a tribute to Lou Reed on that album, or to ‘take the piss on’ any specific band either.

    However, Marianne Faithful could not resist a swipe at a prettier, younger new upstart. Never mind that she was actually a year and a half older….oops….

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CkHhSiJxHrQ

    Read More
    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman

    One, Keef hasn’t been busted for decades...
     
    "Decades" doesn't mean that awful long when you are The Rolling Stones. He HAS been arrested just this past century, right? OK, then. Game, set, match, shopping (see, back to the post!)

    Ball's in your court, A. ;-}

    BTW, I don't just know about the album cover, I've GOT the album cover (with a record inside). See you on ebay, bitchez.
    , @Asdf
    Was Debby Harry was the upstart referred to?

    Marianne's song wasnt that bad incidentally. Imho.
  71. snorlax says:

    OT-Here-Meaning-”On Topic”:

    In the “wish I’d dug this up a few weeks ago” category, there’s The Google Chrome Comic, published, by Google, just ahead of the release of the Chrome web browser in 2008 and based on interviews with the team that developed it.

    Writing a new web browser involves pretty much the toughest possible set of technical challenges in modern software development. (Gifted grad students occasionally write new operating systems; no single person could possibly create a usable web browser).

    Of the members of the Chrome team featured in the comic, there are:

    17 white males (including 1 Copt and 1 Conquistador-American who resembles MTV’s Max Joseph): Brian Rakowski, Darin Fisher, Lars Bak, Kasper Lund, Ian Fette, Ben Goodger, Arnaud Weber, Mike Belshe, Brett Wilson, Erik Kay, Glen Murphy, Evan Martin, John Abd-El-Malek, Carlos Pizano, Mark Larson, Aaron Boodman, Chris DiBona

    1 Asian male: Huan Ren

    1 white female: Pam Greene (yes, she appears to be real, but very spergy)

    Read More
  72. Dennis Dale says: • Website
    @Zimriel
    Speaking as a Generation X-er, I second that. "Fast Car" was a GenX anthem, maybe even more than "Smells Like Teen Spirit".

    It's a song for someone who doesn't belong, who thinks they can find a place where they do belong, but where they end up is the same as where they started, so their only happy memory is when they were moving.

    Steve, you posted some comments earlier about how white Californians have decided that sending their kids out of state to other colleges is just How We Do Things Now. This applied to other states as well. The first generation to suffer from this constant dislocation of relocation is the generation which made "Fast Car" a success.

    It’s an interesting juxtaposition, Teen Spirit and Fast Car.
    Cobain laments bourgeois culture. His high school is like Foucault’s prison, a macrocosm of society exposing the power relationships and madness. He doesn’t want to be normal.

    Chapman depicts someone striving for normality, in what I think is a profoundly tragic little phrase, to simply “be someone”; to just have a job, a house, kids. The tragedy is in you knowing she won’t get there, event though she doesn’t say that–the guitar hook does.

    Cobain shrinks away to nothing in the comparison.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Curle
    If you were ever in Aberdeen in the early 90s I think bourgeoise might be the last word used to describe the place. I remember wondering if I'd come across a food store without a giant 'Food Stamps Accepted Here' banner out front. Don't recall finding one.
  73. jim jones says:
    @guest
    I don't know about Chapman in particular. The suggestion that people are listening for her singing technique seems odd to me. Maybe lesbo depression rock is popular now. If YouTube viewers are clicking on her to learn about her technique, is that something females are more likely to be interested in?

    We are living through an era with a dearth of popular male vocal virtuosos. But these things run in cycles, I think. Not long ago there was a dominant rock subgenre dedicated to male screeching virtuosity known as heavy metal. Mick Jagger may just be a bad example to pick. Why not pick a male with actual technique, like, I don't know, Aaron Neville?

    An interesting question might be: long-term, which group has the bigger claim to public attention for singing,
    males or females? My guess would be males, because though men are attracted to lady singers they don't swoon over them like girls do their pop idols. Certainly not in isolation from other factors. Maybe "all things being equal" men are attracted to Linda Ronstadt's voice. But they wouldn't be if she looked like Linda Tripp.

    Then again, men lack the storied tradition of the Prima Donna and the Diva.

    Then again again, is there anything in female singing history to compare to the Castrato?

    If I go back prior to the era of modern recording techniques, most all virtuosic names I'd recognize would be male. Starting with the Great Caruso in the modern era, again, most of them would be male.

    Female hysteria is terrifying:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M6DfG7sml-Q

    Read More
    • Replies: @snorlax

    Female hysteria
     
    Redundant much? ;)
    , @guest
    A local radio station used to play their recording of the Beatles performing at the nearby Metropolitan Stadium in Bloomington, MN in 1965. (The only time they played in Minnesota.) It was utterly pointless, because it was wall-to-wall screaming. No wonder they quit touring.
  74. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer

    My picks for most depressing song. Lodi by CCR, Same Old Lang Syne by Dan Fogelberg, Diamond and Rust by Joan Baez and Long Long Time By Linda Ronstadt.

    Looking back on life, to think about how our hopes and dreams faded away, is depressing.

    Read More
  75. @Anonymous
    One, Keef hasn't been busted for decades (I think his last bust was for H in Toronto in the seventies).

    Some Girls was the Stones' attempt at a 'punk' or 'new wave' album. Younger critics said it was about as "punk" as Barbra Streisand's Stoney End. It did have 'edgy' album cover graphics with die cut outer cover and inner sleeve with pictures underneath. Guitarwise, it had a harder, edgier sound because Keith had started using the Mesa Boogie amplifier and guitars with EMG pickups, which are usually preferred by heavy metal guitarists (Gilmour uses them, as do a lot of bar band country players because they are low impedance and very quiet). But there was no attempt to do anything as a tribute to Lou Reed on that album, or to 'take the piss on' any specific band either.

    However, Marianne Faithful could not resist a swipe at a prettier, younger new upstart. Never mind that she was actually a year and a half older....oops....

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CkHhSiJxHrQ

    One, Keef hasn’t been busted for decades…

    “Decades” doesn’t mean that awful long when you are The Rolling Stones. He HAS been arrested just this past century, right? OK, then. Game, set, match, shopping (see, back to the post!)

    Ball’s in your court, A. ;-}

    BTW, I don’t just know about the album cover, I’ve GOT the album cover (with a record inside). See you on ebay, bitchez.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    I have two of them. However, at the moment, I do not have a turntable.
    And I'm not going to buy a POS one that will tear up my vinyl. Good ones are spendy.
  76. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @Dr. X

    The most depressing song ever is “Waltzing Matilda ” by The Pogues. And nothing is even a close second.
     
    I don't know about that. Where, Oh Where Can My Baby Be has got to give just about anything out there a pretty stiff challenge for "Most Depressing Song Ever."

    That is a sad song. Some other depressing songs are Shannon, Mr. Bojangles, Seasons in the Sun, Alone Again Naturally, and Honey. Why did the ’70s have so many sad, depressing songs?

    Read More
    • Replies: @TheUmpteenthGermanOnHere
    I think Tom Wolfe would tell you because the 70s followed the 60s.
    "Explosion of happiness" - or do I misremember the line?
  77. snorlax says:
    @jim jones
    Female hysteria is terrifying:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M6DfG7sml-Q

    Female hysteria

    Redundant much? ;)

    Read More
  78. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @Curle
    Im usually a big fan, but Steve's all wet on this one. Jagger is an excellent stylist and understands how to make a song sound interesting, and in a way that accentuates the undergirding rythym and melody. Jagger is far more interesting a singer in this regard than anyone else referenced in this post, especially the bland and almost unlistenable Celine Dion or Whitney Houston. Same goes for Chapman. Her voice is on an order of magnitude more interesting to listen to than Dion.

    John Lennon, a remarkable vocalist, spoke to this matter occasionally noting how old American Hillbilly and English folk singers inderstood the importance of adopting imperfections to enhance the sound of the song. Hank Williams was a case in point. Listen to this by the Carter family circa 1927. The flat singing is deliberate and anticipates Strawberry Fields.


    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=kcRIeIQOd14

    Im usually a big fan, but Steve’s all wet on this one. Jagger is an excellent stylist and understands how to make a song sound interesting, and in a way that accentuates the undergirding rythym and melody. Jagger is far more interesting a singer in this regard than anyone else referenced in this post, especially the bland and almost unlistenable Celine Dion or Whitney Houston. Same goes for Chapman. Her voice is on an order of magnitude more interesting to listen to than Dion.

    To use an old term, Jagger is a mediocre singer as such but a superb “song stylist”: moreover he is the canonical rock and roll front person. After Jagger, there are maybe two dozen men and maybe, not quite, a half dozen women who can really front a rock and roll band.

    And he and his band are a perfect fit, maybe not in the Brian Jones era, but by the early seventies they had morphed into a unit. The rhythm section of Watts, Wyman and Richards was like nothing before or since, and although Mick Taylor was technically a superior lead guitarist , Ronnie and Keith were able to function as a second unit-you didn’t have a lead and a rhythm guitar player at that point, they traded off seamlessly. Ronnie always played in standard tuning except for slide, Keith tended to work in open tunings, which gave some harmonies no one could have planned and which were sometimes astonishingly powerful.

    Read More
  79. Clyde says:
    @Clyde

    Petra Kvitova (love that name for some reason) lives in Monaco for tax reasons. One wonders what she can find at the Stamford Mall that she can’t find at the shops in Monaco.
     
    6ft tall btw..... Prices have to be a lot better than Monaco or anywhere in Europe. Or she can get it on ebay Amazon etc and get stuff cheaper, haul it back to her lo-tax abode in Monaco.

    You would think the patriarchy would get a shutout every so often for making and providing all the great things women get to go shopping for.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman

    You would think the patriarchy would get a shutout every so often for making and providing all the great things women get to go shopping for.
     
    They will appreciate it in hindsight when TSHTF. As usual, too late. Don't it always seem to go, you don't know what you've got till it's gone. "They paved paradise, put up a parking lot."
  80. Buddwing says:
    @Steve Sailer
    Here's Aaron Neville's famous cotton commercial:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5T8AnY4dJbc

    It's pretty great, but being a good singer isn't that important to guy fans.

    I always felt that Ritchie Havens was the greater Cotton singer. Smoother and less mannered.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nZD5nixUMpk

    It is a shame that Jagger never sang about Cotton.

    Read More
  81. guest says:
    @Mitchell Porter
    It's pretty weird to pick on "Fast Car". It's a gentle, wistful song about wanting a better life. If that's "depressing", what would you make of, say, Metallica's "One"?

    Compared to a song about a guy who’s just a faceless torso with no means of communication besides hitting his head on a pillow in Morse Code, Fast Car is Sugar Sugar. But I have a lower bar than that for calling something depressing.

    Read More
  82. guest says:
    @Dennis Dale
    "Fast Car" is downright beautiful. As for its outperforming "Shattered" you must account for the fact "Shattered" is competing with the whole Stones discography, and ranks pretty low, whereas "Fast Car" is one of two songs I know by Tracy Chapman, and I can't name the other. Comparing total views for Stones v Chapman reveals more about tastes perhaps.
    But the song's a little masterpiece.

    Fast Car isn’t beautiful, though it has a catchy guitar riff. Even when I was a kid and didn’t understand the lyrics–I think I was 6 years-old when it came out–I knew it was depressing. In a literal way, not an artful way. Though it was artfully depressing, too. Just not in a way I’d consider beautiful.

    Read More
    • Replies: @anonguy

    Fast Car isn’t beautiful, though it has a catchy guitar riff. Even when I was a kid and didn’t understand the lyrics–I think I was 6 years-old when it came out–I knew it was depressing. In a literal way, not an artful way. Though it was artfully depressing, too. Just not in a way I’d consider beautiful.
     
    A lady friend for whom our friendship a bit of escapist fantasy sent me that song early on. In that context, it was super romantic.

    BTW, in the female semiotics department, women who send you songs as a way to express their feelings about the relationship tend to be intense people (with intense relationships) IME.
  83. sayless says:
    @Curle
    Im usually a big fan, but Steve's all wet on this one. Jagger is an excellent stylist and understands how to make a song sound interesting, and in a way that accentuates the undergirding rythym and melody. Jagger is far more interesting a singer in this regard than anyone else referenced in this post, especially the bland and almost unlistenable Celine Dion or Whitney Houston. Same goes for Chapman. Her voice is on an order of magnitude more interesting to listen to than Dion.

    John Lennon, a remarkable vocalist, spoke to this matter occasionally noting how old American Hillbilly and English folk singers inderstood the importance of adopting imperfections to enhance the sound of the song. Hank Williams was a case in point. Listen to this by the Carter family circa 1927. The flat singing is deliberate and anticipates Strawberry Fields.


    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=kcRIeIQOd14

    The flat singing is deliberate and anticipates Strawberry Fields.

    Thanks for that.

    Johnny Cash tended to sing sharp and it sounded just right.

    There’s a nice clip of him on the net, smoking a cigarette and lying on A.P.’s grave.

    Read More
  84. guest says:
    @jim jones
    Female hysteria is terrifying:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M6DfG7sml-Q

    A local radio station used to play their recording of the Beatles performing at the nearby Metropolitan Stadium in Bloomington, MN in 1965. (The only time they played in Minnesota.) It was utterly pointless, because it was wall-to-wall screaming. No wonder they quit touring.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    PA systems were pitiful then. If they'd stayed together three more years it would have been completely different.
  85. Dennis Dale says: • Website
    @cthulhu
    Try Jim Carroll's "People Who Died" for depressing...

    Chapman's biggest hit was probably "Give Me One Reason", a hopeful if not exactly happy 12-bar blues with some slightly different chord changes than the standard I-IV-V. I encountered it at a jam once; fortunately the other guitarist on stage knew it and was able to get me going pretty quickly with the right changes.

    Blind Faith's "Can't Find My Way Home" is pretty depressing too, but a beautiful melody and an absolutely heartbreaking vocal by the great, great Steve Winwood.

    Yeah, but the effect of “People Who Died” is energizing because of the music. Even his delivery contradicts the bleak lyrics–it’s a great sing-a-long. I love hearing that song.

    Leonard Cohen’s “Dress Rehearsal Rag” is the official Most Depressing Song Ever in my opinion. And, yes, it’s another masterpiece. The embed below probably won’t work:

    https://youtu.be/AhVW0vMljP8

    Read More
  86. guest says:
    @Dennis Dale
    "Fast Car" is downright beautiful. As for its outperforming "Shattered" you must account for the fact "Shattered" is competing with the whole Stones discography, and ranks pretty low, whereas "Fast Car" is one of two songs I know by Tracy Chapman, and I can't name the other. Comparing total views for Stones v Chapman reveals more about tastes perhaps.
    But the song's a little masterpiece.

    The other Tracy Chapman song you know, by the way, is Give Me One Reason, a groovy blues number. Much happier than Fast Car.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Dennis Dale
    I didn't like that one. Not happy--it's a blues song about infidelity, ffs, and just another competent cover. I'd forgotten about it. No, she had a few songs getting airplay from that one big record of hers. I refuse to wiki it.

    It is necessary to differentiate between depressing subject matter and depression-inducing in art. They need not go together.

    A tragic work, if it works, doesn't depress you, even if it inspires melancholy. Catharsis. Of course postmodernism is naturally hostile to the idea. Postmodernism is nothing so much as the idea that there can be no comfort, no respite anywhere in the culture.

    Leftist cultural theorists won't say it, but the idea of people coming away from a performance relieved of moral angst is the last thing they want! You're supposed to be forever discomforted, forever troubled, forever harried by moral, er, harridans in the Current Year.

    That's why it all seems so hollow--and depressing.

  87. at a particular type of chest voice singing involving manipulating the column of air flowing from the lungs.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dk-g6tsbAhI

    Read More
  88. @Peterike
    The most depressing song ever is "Waltzing Matilda " by The Pogues. And nothing is even a close second. What other song sums up the demise of the greatest civilization in history in about eight minutes?

    The most depressing song ever is “Waltzing Matilda ” by The Pogues. And nothing is even a close second.

    Liam Clancy’s rendition is quite moving.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PFCekeoSTwg

    Waltzing Matilda was written by Scottish Australian folk singer Eric Bolger. Bolger also wrote The Green Fields of France, another sad one that was performed by Liam Clancy.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WM_UYzUtu0w

    The Dropkick Murphy’s version is also high quality.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YGneFWWNA3g

    Read More
    • Replies: @Verymuchalive
    " Waltzing Matilda " was written by Andrew " Banjo " Paterson ( 1855-1941 ).
    No Man's Land ( " Green Hills of France " ) was written by the Scots-born Eric Bogle, an adult emigrant to Australia and not much liked in his native land.
  89. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @guest
    A local radio station used to play their recording of the Beatles performing at the nearby Metropolitan Stadium in Bloomington, MN in 1965. (The only time they played in Minnesota.) It was utterly pointless, because it was wall-to-wall screaming. No wonder they quit touring.

    PA systems were pitiful then. If they’d stayed together three more years it would have been completely different.

    Read More
  90. @AnotherDad

    Congratulations to Serena and her fiance Alexis Ohanian, Reddit co-founder, on their first child.
     
    Congrats to them as well.

    Still ... you're a white guy, a successful internet entreprenuer, tall, not obviously ugly ... and you're marrying a few years older, mid-30s-ish, black woman who is built like a tank?

    I realize white girls are--relative to early times--no prize right now, but there are still a lot of delicious ones out there. What the heck is going on in some of these guys brains!

    his son´s are going do be much stronger than he is, maybe thats what he aims for.

    Read More
  91. NickG says:

    Which Technical Topics Interest Women More Than Men?

    Crocheting and multiple orgasms; though not usually at the same time.

    Read More
  92. @Daniel Williams
    There's a Strine version, too: "And the Band Played Waltzing Matilda". Poor guy only loses his legs, though: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E22gszljklc

    There's a Turkish connection, too. The conspiracy deepens...

    I immediately thought of “The Band Played Waltzing Matilda”. I’m partial to The Pogues’ version. “Johnny I Hardly Knew Ye” is a good one, too.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Erik L
    love that one though to me it's not about sadness; it's about disillusionment
  93. NickG says:

    Which Technical Topics Interest Women More Than Men?

    Crocheting and multiple orgasms; though not usually at the same time.

    “Fast Car” might be the most depressing song I’ve ever heard

    I’d say anything by the Smiths gets me reaching for the Prozac – especially Heaven Knows I’m Miserable now.

    Read More
  94. @YetAnotherAnon
    Tracy Chapman was the Joan Armatrading of the 80s (and Joan was IIRC pretty Sapphic herself)

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U3ppBn_J7_w

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joan_Armatrading

    Yes I find Joan and Tracy very appealing (very similar sound). Both would be white males if they could. But they can’t. So sad! They sing of sadness and loss. What’s not to like?

    Read More
  95. @Daniel Williams

    I guess Janis is about as black as any curly-headed Jewish kid from Jersey.
     
    You're right! I thought she was black based on my (evidently faulty) memory of the Between The Lines cover art. But you're obviously correct.

    What was more likely, that “Society’s Child” (a sad tale of a mother forbidding her daughter to date someone of a different race) was written by a black girl or a Jewish girl?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Janis_Ian

    “At the age of 14, Ian wrote and recorded her first hit single, “Society’s Child (Baby I’ve Been Thinking)”, about an interracial romance forbidden by a girl’s mother and frowned upon by her peers and teachers. Produced by George “Shadow” Morton and released three times from 1965 to 1967, “Society’s Child” became a national hit upon its third release after Leonard Bernstein featured it in a CBS TV special.”

    Anonymouse – yes, they both have the smoky, vulnerable voice.

    Read More
  96. Among white women, most of the technically competent female singers are in folk, art rock and melodic heavy rock. Unfashionable fields with a relatively high percentage of male fans.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nprjAwB1ASw

    Read More
  97. Dennis Dale says: • Website
    @guest
    The other Tracy Chapman song you know, by the way, is Give Me One Reason, a groovy blues number. Much happier than Fast Car.

    I didn’t like that one. Not happy–it’s a blues song about infidelity, ffs, and just another competent cover. I’d forgotten about it. No, she had a few songs getting airplay from that one big record of hers. I refuse to wiki it.

    It is necessary to differentiate between depressing subject matter and depression-inducing in art. They need not go together.

    A tragic work, if it works, doesn’t depress you, even if it inspires melancholy. Catharsis. Of course postmodernism is naturally hostile to the idea. Postmodernism is nothing so much as the idea that there can be no comfort, no respite anywhere in the culture.

    Leftist cultural theorists won’t say it, but the idea of people coming away from a performance relieved of moral angst is the last thing they want! You’re supposed to be forever discomforted, forever troubled, forever harried by moral, er, harridans in the Current Year.

    That’s why it all seems so hollow–and depressing.

    Read More
    • Replies: @guest
    "Not happy--it's a blues song about infidelity"

    I was comparing it to Fast Car. HappiER.

    "It is necessary to differentiate between depressing subject matter and depression-inducing in art. They need not go together"

    They need not, though they do in Fast Car. Which is also uses a depressing technique to boot, except that they riff is pleasantly catchy.

    "even if it inspires melancholy. Catharsis."

    If you feel melancholic after catharsis, I don't think you're not doing it correctly.
  98. @Daniel Williams
    I'll see your Joan Armatrading and raise you a Janis Ian—she's a lez, she's black, and she's got a pretty depressing signature hit, "At Seventeen": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ESS0eKJpEZQ

    And those of us with ravaged faces
    Lacking in the social graces
    Desperately remained at home
    Inventing lovers on the phone
    Who called to say "come dance with me"
    And murmured vague obscenities

    Joan's other material was mainly pretty upbeat (I'm a big fan). Who knows what Janis Ian's other songs are like...

    Perhaps they are all stylistic offspring of their grandmammy Nina Simone?

    Read More
  99. ” Ball and Chain ” by Social D is a depressing song though also a pretty catchy one . Alot of their stuff is in this category yet I dig them and never really feel down when listening . Could be Mike Ness’s guitar playing and growl and the other guys who’ve made up the band at different times . Or the fact that they’re a weightlifting favorite of mine and that pump up is just a big dopamine hit . Also , Tracy Chapman has one called ” New Beginning ” that is an upbeat blues song . Many will know the lyrics ” start it all over ” – always thought that was the songs name .

    Read More
    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_NWjehpGSO0
    , @Steve Sailer
    Social Distortion's greatest depressing songs, Story of My Life, Ball and Chain, Prison Bound, etc., totally cheer me up.

    Story of My Life:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oh8zcbC_Dcw

    Ball and Chain:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_NWjehpGSO0

    , @Steve Sailer
    Social Distortion's greatest depressing songs, Story of My Life, Ball and Chain, Prison Bound, etc., totally cheer me up.

    Story of My Life:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oh8zcbC_Dcw

    Ball and Chain:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_NWjehpGSO0

  100. In “Shattered”, Jagger seemed to imagine himself a New York Jew in the rag trade:

    All this chitter-chatter chitter-chatter chitter-chatter
    ’Bout schmatta schmatta schmatta.
    I can’t give it away on Seventh Avenue.
    This town’s been wearing tatters.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    I bet Mick would have made a lot of money in the rag trade.

    Here's a question: What fields wouldn't Mick Jagger have done pretty well in?

    Actuary?

    , @Anonymous
    It's a running theme through the album. Respectable, et al.

    How many bands have running phrases in their lyrics across albums?
  101. @Waylon 347
    " Ball and Chain " by Social D is a depressing song though also a pretty catchy one . Alot of their stuff is in this category yet I dig them and never really feel down when listening . Could be Mike Ness's guitar playing and growl and the other guys who've made up the band at different times . Or the fact that they're a weightlifting favorite of mine and that pump up is just a big dopamine hit . Also , Tracy Chapman has one called " New Beginning " that is an upbeat blues song . Many will know the lyrics " start it all over " - always thought that was the songs name .
    Read More
  102. @Waylon 347
    " Ball and Chain " by Social D is a depressing song though also a pretty catchy one . Alot of their stuff is in this category yet I dig them and never really feel down when listening . Could be Mike Ness's guitar playing and growl and the other guys who've made up the band at different times . Or the fact that they're a weightlifting favorite of mine and that pump up is just a big dopamine hit . Also , Tracy Chapman has one called " New Beginning " that is an upbeat blues song . Many will know the lyrics " start it all over " - always thought that was the songs name .

    Social Distortion’s greatest depressing songs, Story of My Life, Ball and Chain, Prison Bound, etc., totally cheer me up.

    Story of My Life:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oh8zcbC_Dcw

    Ball and Chain:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_NWjehpGSO0

    Read More
  103. @Waylon 347
    " Ball and Chain " by Social D is a depressing song though also a pretty catchy one . Alot of their stuff is in this category yet I dig them and never really feel down when listening . Could be Mike Ness's guitar playing and growl and the other guys who've made up the band at different times . Or the fact that they're a weightlifting favorite of mine and that pump up is just a big dopamine hit . Also , Tracy Chapman has one called " New Beginning " that is an upbeat blues song . Many will know the lyrics " start it all over " - always thought that was the songs name .

    Social Distortion’s greatest depressing songs, Story of My Life, Ball and Chain, Prison Bound, etc., totally cheer me up.

    Story of My Life:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oh8zcbC_Dcw

    Ball and Chain:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_NWjehpGSO0

    Read More
  104. @the one they call Desanex
    In “Shattered”, Jagger seemed to imagine himself a New York Jew in the rag trade:

    All this chitter-chatter chitter-chatter chitter-chatter
    ’Bout schmatta schmatta schmatta.
    I can’t give it away on Seventh Avenue.
    This town’s been wearing tatters.

    I bet Mick would have made a lot of money in the rag trade.

    Here’s a question: What fields wouldn’t Mick Jagger have done pretty well in?

    Actuary?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Mr. Anon

    Here’s a question: What fields wouldn’t Mick Jagger have done pretty well in?
     
    Rock concert security specialist?
    , @cthulhu
    Jagger is quite intelligent and likely would have been a successful businessman had he not gotten into rock and roll (he's obviously still successful, but his business acumen isn't the main reason). Even so, he was always heavily involved with the business end of the band, all the way down to optimizing the tour schedule to reduce the cost of hauling the big stage show around.

    That said, I'm obliged to say that I'm not really a Stones fan - I like some of their stuff such as "Honky Tonk Woman", "Dead Flowers", and "Tumbling Dice", but I really don't care for anything of theirs after maybe 1974. When I listen to English rock, I tend to go with the Who, the Yardbirds, Cream, Traffic, and some of the Beatles.

    , @Curle
    Shouldn't this be its own post?

    Women's Studies Professor?
  105. @Zimriel
    Speaking as a Generation X-er, I second that. "Fast Car" was a GenX anthem, maybe even more than "Smells Like Teen Spirit".

    It's a song for someone who doesn't belong, who thinks they can find a place where they do belong, but where they end up is the same as where they started, so their only happy memory is when they were moving.

    Steve, you posted some comments earlier about how white Californians have decided that sending their kids out of state to other colleges is just How We Do Things Now. This applied to other states as well. The first generation to suffer from this constant dislocation of relocation is the generation which made "Fast Car" a success.

    O.k., so I am German and only came to the U.S. as a student. But this here:
    “The first generation to suffer from this constant dislocation of relocation…” – isn’t that just plain incorrect statistically? I once came upon a book from the 1950s by an author who seems to have been rather famous – Vance Packard – that contained quite a bit of data about how the white-collar American middle class moved like seven times more often than their European counterparts. O.k., even if it was only five times more often, that would be rather a lot. That appears to have changed post-financial crisis but was typically presented as the labour-market immobility argument against the Euro in the early 2000s.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    One of my favorite books I reviewed was "American Homesickness" by historian Susan J. Matt:

    http://www.vdare.com/articles/homesickness-theres-a-reason-stand-and-delivers-escalante-returned-to-bolivia

    Traditionally, Americans moved a lot, but they didn't much like it. Homesickness was recognized and much sympathized with in the 19th Century. In the 20th Century, however, American society became less sympathetic about homesickness as big institutions like the Army, IBM, and Walmart moved ambitious people all over. But in the 21st Century, while we don't accord much sympathy toward the homesick, Americans don't seem all that enthusiastic about moving. The emergence of the two career couple has provided Americans with an excuse for not moving.

  106. TB says:

    Yolandi of Die Antwoord with a depressing but nice song about being adopted, produced by Muggs who samples a russian boogey man song and throws in a lullaby in Afrikaans. (Yolandi is South Afrikan)

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sXA0U9nhvQI

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  107. @TheUmpteenthGermanOnHere
    O.k., so I am German and only came to the U.S. as a student. But this here:
    "The first generation to suffer from this constant dislocation of relocation..." - isn't that just plain incorrect statistically? I once came upon a book from the 1950s by an author who seems to have been rather famous - Vance Packard - that contained quite a bit of data about how the white-collar American middle class moved like seven times more often than their European counterparts. O.k., even if it was only five times more often, that would be rather a lot. That appears to have changed post-financial crisis but was typically presented as the labour-market immobility argument against the Euro in the early 2000s.

    One of my favorite books I reviewed was “American Homesickness” by historian Susan J. Matt:

    http://www.vdare.com/articles/homesickness-theres-a-reason-stand-and-delivers-escalante-returned-to-bolivia

    Traditionally, Americans moved a lot, but they didn’t much like it. Homesickness was recognized and much sympathized with in the 19th Century. In the 20th Century, however, American society became less sympathetic about homesickness as big institutions like the Army, IBM, and Walmart moved ambitious people all over. But in the 21st Century, while we don’t accord much sympathy toward the homesick, Americans don’t seem all that enthusiastic about moving. The emergence of the two career couple has provided Americans with an excuse for not moving.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anon 2
    Sociologists say that it takes 300 years for
    a class system to become established. Hence
    there is a clear class system in New England
    (e.g., many people in South Boston feel they don't
    belong in Harvard Square) or St. Louis but not
    in Kansas City or California. Unless shaken up
    by revolutions or wars, societies become ossified with the
    passage of time. There is much less geographical
    mobility as well, certainly less today than during the
    postwar period when it seemed like everybody was
    on the go. Kerouac's "On the Road" (1957 - 60th anniversary
    in September!) was an expression of his fascination with
    the quintessential American restlessness.

    I'm personally amazed how hitchhiking, which was so common
    in the U.S. in the 1930s-'70s, suddenly came to a stop around
    1980. I often offered rides to hippies and plain hitchhikers in the '70s,
    and then they vanished. Loss of trust after well-publicized murders
    and rapes? That's certainly one factor, except that in my experience
    it happened so suddenly.
  108. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @the one they call Desanex
    In “Shattered”, Jagger seemed to imagine himself a New York Jew in the rag trade:

    All this chitter-chatter chitter-chatter chitter-chatter
    ’Bout schmatta schmatta schmatta.
    I can’t give it away on Seventh Avenue.
    This town’s been wearing tatters.

    It’s a running theme through the album. Respectable, et al.

    How many bands have running phrases in their lyrics across albums?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman

    How many bands have running phrases in their lyrics across albums?
     
    # 1) Electric Light Orchestra (ELO) - Time: It's about a man who (possibly in just a dream) gets transported into the future.
    The funny thing is, the only hit song on the album is one that is not part of the theme ("Hold on Tight (to your Dreams)"). I'd like to read otherwise, but right now, this is the best concept album of ALL TIME. Jeff Lynne was like some kind of musical genius.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8PyX21jZ7Ug


    #2) The Moody Blues - Days of Future Passed: It is about the different stages of life. The hit song on it was "Tuesday Afternoon".
    These guys made rock in combination with classical orchestras. Nobody I've heard of today has 1/4 of this much creativity.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qby2PXRSX_Q

    (That youtube clip was ripped from a cassette tape, haha, but it sounded OK at a first listen, and that's better than damn commercials BETWEEN songs.)


    # 3) Eagles - Desperado: This one has a theme about outlaws and the West.
    Most people know the title song and "Tequila Sunrise", but the whole thing is great - Bernie Leadon has a short banjo instrumental, and all but Bernie (I think) sing lead vocals on various tracks.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pVSBqCuco1s&list=PLzH7DPYb-ewd-4JKfYtQbyFpA9dqb6m3e

    (WARNING on the Desperado youtube clip - This one is separate clips in a compilation, and one will usually hear commercials at some point between songs, pretty much ruining your listening with a concept album. The Eagles have some kind of problem with some of their stuff being up there - I tried to find ANY version of the song "On the Border" from that album with no luck.)

    Because music is often bought song-by-song nowadays, I think most young people have no concept of the concept album.
    , @Achmed E. Newman
    Oops, Anonymous, I read your question wrong, and made that long comment on the "concept album" (not for nothing, I hope).

    To answer your question, I'd go right back to Gerry Rafferty, and that'd include his band with Joe Egan - Steeler's Wheel. I would hear some phrases in the lyrics that would end up being the names of other songs on other albums. It's kind of like iSteve, in that way, one could say. ;-}

    I could give you examples, but not 1 in a few 100,000 Americans probably remembers Gerry Rafferty OTHER THAN from his hit song "Baker Street</i" (with that great saxophone by Rafael Ravenscroft).


    Crap, it's early ... maybe I read your comment correctly the 1st time! Anyway, there's 2 different answers. What else do you want to know?

    , @Erik L
    There's that one where Sting seems oddly unable to let go of some time he invested in a large umbrella but the girl some how managed to hog all the rain protection
  109. @Anonymous
    That is a sad song. Some other depressing songs are Shannon, Mr. Bojangles, Seasons in the Sun, Alone Again Naturally, and Honey. Why did the '70s have so many sad, depressing songs?

    I think Tom Wolfe would tell you because the 70s followed the 60s.
    “Explosion of happiness” – or do I misremember the line?

    Read More
  110. @Anonymous
    It's a running theme through the album. Respectable, et al.

    How many bands have running phrases in their lyrics across albums?

    How many bands have running phrases in their lyrics across albums?

    # 1) Electric Light Orchestra (ELO) – Time: It’s about a man who (possibly in just a dream) gets transported into the future.
    The funny thing is, the only hit song on the album is one that is not part of the theme (“Hold on Tight (to your Dreams)“). I’d like to read otherwise, but right now, this is the best concept album of ALL TIME. Jeff Lynne was like some kind of musical genius.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8PyX21jZ7Ug

    #2) The Moody Blues – Days of Future Passed: It is about the different stages of life. The hit song on it was “Tuesday Afternoon“.
    These guys made rock in combination with classical orchestras. Nobody I’ve heard of today has 1/4 of this much creativity.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qby2PXRSX_Q

    (That youtube clip was ripped from a cassette tape, haha, but it sounded OK at a first listen, and that’s better than damn commercials BETWEEN songs.)

    # 3) Eagles – Desperado: This one has a theme about outlaws and the West.
    Most people know the title song and “Tequila Sunrise“, but the whole thing is great – Bernie Leadon has a short banjo instrumental, and all but Bernie (I think) sing lead vocals on various tracks.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pVSBqCuco1s&list=PLzH7DPYb-ewd-4JKfYtQbyFpA9dqb6m3e

    (WARNING on the Desperado youtube clip – This one is separate clips in a compilation, and one will usually hear commercials at some point between songs, pretty much ruining your listening with a concept album. The Eagles have some kind of problem with some of their stuff being up there – I tried to find ANY version of the song “On the Border” from that album with no luck.)

    Because music is often bought song-by-song nowadays, I think most young people have no concept of the concept album.

    Read More
  111. @Anonymous
    It's a running theme through the album. Respectable, et al.

    How many bands have running phrases in their lyrics across albums?

    Oops, Anonymous, I read your question wrong, and made that long comment on the “concept album” (not for nothing, I hope).

    To answer your question, I’d go right back to Gerry Rafferty, and that’d include his band with Joe Egan – Steeler’s Wheel. I would hear some phrases in the lyrics that would end up being the names of other songs on other albums. It’s kind of like iSteve, in that way, one could say. ;-}

    I could give you examples, but not 1 in a few 100,000 Americans probably remembers Gerry Rafferty OTHER THAN from his hit song “Baker Street</i" (with that great saxophone by Rafael Ravenscroft).

    Crap, it’s early … maybe I read your comment correctly the 1st time! Anyway, there’s 2 different answers. What else do you want to know?

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  112. @Clyde
    You would think the patriarchy would get a shutout every so often for making and providing all the great things women get to go shopping for.

    You would think the patriarchy would get a shutout every so often for making and providing all the great things women get to go shopping for.

    They will appreciate it in hindsight when TSHTF. As usual, too late. Don’t it always seem to go, you don’t know what you’ve got till it’s gone. “They paved paradise, put up a parking lot.”

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    • Replies: @Clyde
    you found my reply to you! and it was shout out to the patriarchy.
    Men design and manufacture common labor saving devices for the fairer sex and all it did was give them swelled heads. Women/wives who had to produce family meals without refrigerators and modern instant on and off stoves. This required a brain that was good at logistics. Then modern washing machines take the slavery/drudgery of of cleaning clothes by hand. What a workout that must have been.

    How about hot and cold running water coming into your kitchens and bathrooms so that the woman does not have to haul water into the house from an outside hand pump.
  113. Sue D. Nim says: • Website
    @Randal
    "Imagine" by the execrable John Lennon is so much more depressing than either of those songs, on several levels (including its ubiquity).

    Another version of “Imagine” – an antidote to the awful John Lennon crap:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VOmiHTKHbNs

    I like to think the old hippy is turning in his grave.

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    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Lennon and McCartney were like the Good Kirk and Bad Kirk in that episode of Star Trek when Kirk was split into two separate people in a transporter accident. On their own Lennon was a prick, McCartney a low T veggie queef. Together, they were as close as rock has come to any of the classic tin pan alley songwriting teams.
  114. TheJester says:

    Men are from Mars … Women are from Venus?

    Years ago, there was a popular book entitled, “Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus.” Nothing deep. Just collections of cliches, aphorism, and stereotypes regarding the popularly accepted differences between men and women. If you understood them, as it were, you could better communicate with and understand your significant other. Women loved the book. “See here. I told you so, you insensitive good-for-nothing …!”

    I could add to the list of cliches, aphorism, and gender stereotypes by noticing the increasing popularity of Social and Emotional Learning (SEL) … as education and learning are progressively feminized in America. SEL has a curriculum designed to help participants recognize and get control of their emotions.

    I understand SEL is taking the American educational system by storm. Indeed, having had a mother, sisters, aunts, nieces, and a daughter, I believe that SEL for the female population is an excellent idea. Broadening its application, SEL might also be of help in taming Black male (mis)behaviors that are wrecking some school systems.

    However, is there a cost? Is it SEL or STEM but not both? Perhaps there is a SEL-based STEM program expressly designed for the ladies … something like the collaboration-based software development culture currently in vogue at Google.

    I ran into the same theme regarding the need for an emotion-based learning experience for females while browsing through a magazine in a doctor’s office. It listed the top private schools in the area. The official description for one (a prestigious and expensive girl’s school … grades 9-12) caught my eye:

    “The school focuses teaching the best way that girls learn through collaboration, relationships, strong affiliations, and contexts.”

    Hum, is there no escaping SEL as it permeates our culture? Those in the universities, armed forces, and at Google are already in the middle of their SEL immersions (understanding that SEL helps Navy crews safely navigate their ships at sea). Anticipating the inevitable, the rest of us need to get ready for our sensitivity immersion to function effectively in today’s society.

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  115. 2Mintzin1 says:
    @Buzz Mohawk
    Not all the girls are technically good:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2FU3aAEayUE

    Funny thing is, a friend of mine met up with her informally a few years ago (he knew somebody from her business staff)… he played the piano for her and she sang along for a short while…he said she had quite a good voice. Not necessarily Aretha-quality, but a professional sound, on-key.

    What none of these pop divas CAN do is sing accurately and dance at the same time…this ain’t Broadway, where the singing numbers are carefully composed & choreographed to allow both.

    The electronic support at a modern “concert” makes the pop performers lazy, and the result is on this video.

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  116. Thea says:
    @Zimriel
    Speaking as a Generation X-er, I second that. "Fast Car" was a GenX anthem, maybe even more than "Smells Like Teen Spirit".

    It's a song for someone who doesn't belong, who thinks they can find a place where they do belong, but where they end up is the same as where they started, so their only happy memory is when they were moving.

    Steve, you posted some comments earlier about how white Californians have decided that sending their kids out of state to other colleges is just How We Do Things Now. This applied to other states as well. The first generation to suffer from this constant dislocation of relocation is the generation which made "Fast Car" a success.

    I’m surprised Steve doesn’t relate to his song. It really resonates with the modern alienation he writes about

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  117. Marty T says:
    @Jonathan Mason

    Still … you’re a white guy, a successful internet entreprenuer, tall, not obviously ugly … and you’re marrying a few years older, mid-30s-ish, black woman who is built like a tank?
     
    She is also one of the most famous and successful women in the world, obviously extremely rich, seems to have a pleasant personality, is perhaps a demon in bed, and you are attracted to big booty black women anyway. Also you are into tennis. Obviously you do have other choices, but she is what you like enough to have your first child with her, and you are in love with her and with the attention the world is giving you, which you only had to a much more limited extent before.

    I mean I guess to each his own. I find Madison Keys very attractive and likable. I hope she stays that way as her stardom continues to grow.

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  118. @Daniel Williams
    I'll see your Joan Armatrading and raise you a Janis Ian—she's a lez, she's black, and she's got a pretty depressing signature hit, "At Seventeen": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ESS0eKJpEZQ

    And those of us with ravaged faces
    Lacking in the social graces
    Desperately remained at home
    Inventing lovers on the phone
    Who called to say "come dance with me"
    And murmured vague obscenities

    Joan's other material was mainly pretty upbeat (I'm a big fan). Who knows what Janis Ian's other songs are like...

    Many years ago, Jerry Seinfeld was dating a 17 year old girl. Howard Stern was inspired to write rewrite the lyrics of At Seventeen to commemorate this. Janis Ian came on the show and was a good enough sport to sing the rewritten song.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_K3_6TnpVDQ

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  119. Anon 2 says:
    @Steve Sailer
    One of my favorite books I reviewed was "American Homesickness" by historian Susan J. Matt:

    http://www.vdare.com/articles/homesickness-theres-a-reason-stand-and-delivers-escalante-returned-to-bolivia

    Traditionally, Americans moved a lot, but they didn't much like it. Homesickness was recognized and much sympathized with in the 19th Century. In the 20th Century, however, American society became less sympathetic about homesickness as big institutions like the Army, IBM, and Walmart moved ambitious people all over. But in the 21st Century, while we don't accord much sympathy toward the homesick, Americans don't seem all that enthusiastic about moving. The emergence of the two career couple has provided Americans with an excuse for not moving.

    Sociologists say that it takes 300 years for
    a class system to become established. Hence
    there is a clear class system in New England
    (e.g., many people in South Boston feel they don’t
    belong in Harvard Square) or St. Louis but not
    in Kansas City or California. Unless shaken up
    by revolutions or wars, societies become ossified with the
    passage of time. There is much less geographical
    mobility as well, certainly less today than during the
    postwar period when it seemed like everybody was
    on the go. Kerouac’s “On the Road” (1957 – 60th anniversary
    in September!) was an expression of his fascination with
    the quintessential American restlessness.

    I’m personally amazed how hitchhiking, which was so common
    in the U.S. in the 1930s-’70s, suddenly came to a stop around
    1980. I often offered rides to hippies and plain hitchhikers in the ’70s,
    and then they vanished. Loss of trust after well-publicized murders
    and rapes? That’s certainly one factor, except that in my experience
    it happened so suddenly.

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    • Replies: @Anonymous

    Sociologists say that it takes 300 years for
    a class system to become established. Hence
    there is a clear class system in New England
    (e.g., many people in South Boston feel they don’t
    belong in Harvard Square) or St. Louis but not
    in Kansas City or California.
     
    Having spent half my life in Kansas City and St. Louis, it never occurred to me that that sums up the difference between the two towns.

    Remember Kelly Flinn, the sluttish bomber pilot? In her generally soapy autobiography, she does manage to bring up an interesting fact. At the US Air Force Academy, cadets had to fill out a form rating the meal for quality and satisfaction. As in everything trainees in the military are subjected to, there is a right answer for each question. The form was not designed to actually rate the cafeteria service but to require the cadets to do something in a specific way, and if you answered the "survey" with an unstandard answer there was some consequence. Everyone memorized the "right" answer.

    Flinn revealed that USAFA alumni could always identify each other by repeating those answers demanded on the form in order. No one else would know that. She did not, however, reveal the answers themselves. Since that book's publication (and subsequent shredding, I'm sure) several web sites have made the form and the expected answers public knowledge.

    Well, there is a way to identify people from St. Louis. The St. Louis Question.

    Its answer is pretty definitive in identifying those from the area, and in establishing who is who in the order of status:

    "Where did you go to school?"

    Here's the spoiler: no matter if you are a cement truck driver or a neurosurgeon, they are not asking where you went to college or grad school. They are asking where you went to high school.

    KC, to be sure, has its Rockhursts and its Pem Days, but nothing like the barrage of Catholic and nonsectarian private schools in St. Louis and its intricacies of public school districts and the bizarre rules permitting certain students to go to school across this line or that. One of the scions of the town's biggest families (think beer) went to a public high school : his family home was nearly twenty miles away.

    The social pecking order in St. Louis is of an entirely different magnitude than that in Kansas City. STL is closer to any of several really large Northeastern cities, whereas KC is just Wichita writ large.
  120. Hibernian says:
    @Daniel Williams

    Cristian Danescu-Niculescu-Mizil
     
    What's with the triple surname? Is this a European thing, or is Cristian the product of one of those three-parent unions that Drudge was fussing about a few weeks ago? If so, how did this entity mature so fast?

    In some Hispanic cultures there are three surnames including one which I guess may be the maiden name of one of the grandmothers; Che Guevara was, officially, Ernetsto Guevara de la Cerna y Lynch. (An Irish town, home to the Lynches I think, honored him with a statue, or at least some leftists in the town wanted to.)

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  121. Curle says:
    @Achmed E. Newman

    Prices have to be a lot better than Monaco or anywhere in Europe. Or she can get it on ebay Amazon etc and get stuff cheaper
     
    No, no, no, all of us guys have been missing the point on this. She LIKES the actual act of GOING SHOPPING. This is really hard to understand for us. Good deal, bad deal, cash or credit, it doesn't matter. They LIKE being in the store shopping and even STAYING in the store shopping, even when you've freakin' looked at everything, and asked a bunch of question, so let's just get the hell out of ... wait, see I'm not being understanding enough, as my counselor would say. So, yeah, our brains are quite different - I don't need to look at any CAT scans to know that.

    Correct. As a guy who sat through some closed door seminars on retail psychology in another life, some forms of shopping, particularly rag sales, exist because shopping is a social experience. Go to the store, see what other women are wearing, see what they are looking at, see what’s available in 3-D. Have another girl tell you something looks good on you. Pretend you are doing something productive when you’re goofing off in case you are avoiding housework.

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  122. Erik L says:
    @Steve Sailer
    "Mick Jagger may just be a bad example to pick. Why not pick a male with actual technique, like, I don’t know, Aaron Neville?"

    Well, because Sir Mick sang "Satisfaction" and Aaron Neville sang a moody jingle from the Cotton Advisory Council?

    How about Robert Plant then? Or Freddie Mercury?

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  123. To address the title of the post, contemporary botanical art is overwhelmingly female dominated (I’d say 90% at least). It’s technically rigorous as the paintings have to be photorealistic and botanically accurate while, from the aesthetic aspect, each painting is in a sense a portrait of a particular species/cultivar as the very best paintings capture the essence of that plant.

    My wife has an RHS Gold medal for orchid portraits. A rather telling point is that when she was chatting with the other (female) artists, the conversation was not at all nerdy-technical as in types of paint, paper, brushes, techniques…. Rather the main topic was their favourite plants and tips on cultivation.

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    • Replies: @Curle
    I googled photorealism and answered my own question'why do it?' Answer, it allows an artist to make a photograph much larger. Follow up question, is this really a pleasurable pursuit or simply an avocation?
  124. Mr. Anon says:
    @Lot

    “Fast Car” might be the most depressing song I’ve ever heard
     
    I bet if you think about it you can come up with worse. At least a poor grocery clerk in Fast Cars can walk and drive.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johnny_I_Hardly_Knew_Ye

    Where are the legs with which you run,
    Hurroo Hurroo
    Where are the legs with which you run,
    Hurroo Hurroo
    Where are the legs with which you run,
    When first you went to carry a gun
    Indeed your dancing days are done
    Johnny, I hardly knew ya

    You hadn't an arm, you hadn't a leg,
    Hurroo Hurroo
    You hadn't an arm, you hadn't a leg,
    Hurroo Hurroo
    You hadn't an arm, you hadn't a leg
    You're a spinless, boneless, chickenless egg
    You'll have to be put with the bowl to beg
    Johnny, I hardly knew ya
     

    Barrett’s Privateers, in a similar vein to the song you mentioned, would be strong contender for “most depressing song”

    Barrett’s Privateers

    Here sung by the late canadian folk-singer, Stan Rogers, whose voice resembled (to me at least) that of Orson Welles.

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    • Replies: @Anonymous
    There is nothing depressing to me about Stan Rogers, except how he died. It was ridiculous and horrible.

    He was probably the best folk singer, if you want to use that term, to come out of Canada and there were a lot of good ones. Liam Clancy introducing another famous Stan Rogers song he frequently sang:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g7Fwg3mowGU

    By contrast, Stompin' Tom was a shemp.
  125. Mr. Anon says:
    @Randal
    "Imagine" by the execrable John Lennon is so much more depressing than either of those songs, on several levels (including its ubiquity).

    “Imagine” by the execrable John Lennon is so much more depressing than either of those songs, on several levels (including its ubiquity).

    Indeed. At least A Perfect Circle captured the right tone for it:

    A Perfect Circle – Imagine

    John Lennon may have been a creep, but he was still a talented musician. The combination of creep / talented artist is not exactly a rare one. For my money, Lennon’s best post-Beatles song was

    Watching the Wheels

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  126. Mr. Anon says:
    @Steve Sailer
    I bet Mick would have made a lot of money in the rag trade.

    Here's a question: What fields wouldn't Mick Jagger have done pretty well in?

    Actuary?

    Here’s a question: What fields wouldn’t Mick Jagger have done pretty well in?

    Rock concert security specialist?

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  127. Mr. Anon says:

    I always found “Someday” by Sugar Ray to be a rather melancholy sort of song.

    Someday

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  128. cthulhu says:
    @Steve Sailer
    I bet Mick would have made a lot of money in the rag trade.

    Here's a question: What fields wouldn't Mick Jagger have done pretty well in?

    Actuary?

    Jagger is quite intelligent and likely would have been a successful businessman had he not gotten into rock and roll (he’s obviously still successful, but his business acumen isn’t the main reason). Even so, he was always heavily involved with the business end of the band, all the way down to optimizing the tour schedule to reduce the cost of hauling the big stage show around.

    That said, I’m obliged to say that I’m not really a Stones fan – I like some of their stuff such as “Honky Tonk Woman”, “Dead Flowers”, and “Tumbling Dice”, but I really don’t care for anything of theirs after maybe 1974. When I listen to English rock, I tend to go with the Who, the Yardbirds, Cream, Traffic, and some of the Beatles.

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  129. Anon says: • Disclaimer

    Hillarious logic.

    How can she lose when only two ‘genders’ will vote for Trump while 50 ‘genders’ will vote for her.

    50 beats 2.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UzYgxOagDbg

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  130. @Buzz Mohawk
    The funny thing about Jagger is that he got his singing style by copying the black voices on the American blues records he collected as a teenager. Early on he sounded downright ridiculous, and then he developed his own, weird thing.

    He's also some kind of bisexual freak. His moves and expressions and styles were often faggy, but in ways the girls liked.

    I once knew somebody who worked with Jagger/Stones preparing a tour. He said Mick was all business, very high energy, compact with not an ounce of fat on his entire body, and radiated some kind of electricity. Unique.

    The funny thing about Jagger

    The funny thing about the Stones is that their entire bad-boy act was suggested to them by their manager, as a way to separate themselves from the clean (at the time) Beatles image. As a kid I assumed their oddness was natural, but in retrospect i see that it’s almost certainly an act. And what is really weird (sad? scary?) is to think that people would evolve and take on that kind of nonnatural persona. Jaggar seems to have done that (whereas some of the other old rockers seem fairly normal).

    (ps. I don’t really know that much about the Stones as individuals. I guess Brian Jones had serious mental issues)

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    • Replies: @benjaminl
    In Keith Richards's surprisingly well-written autobiography, he [Richards] came across as completely likeable, down-to-earth and matey.

    On the other hand:

    http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/low_concept/2010/11/please_allow_me_to_correct_a_few_things.html
  131. Erik L says:
    @ATX Hipster
    I immediately thought of "The Band Played Waltzing Matilda". I'm partial to The Pogues' version. "Johnny I Hardly Knew Ye" is a good one, too.

    love that one though to me it’s not about sadness; it’s about disillusionment

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    • Replies: @ATX Hipster
    Certainly disillusionment is there, too. But I don't know what to call dismemberment and seeing your friends blown apart for a cause that your country forgets about in your lifetime if not sadness.
  132. Erik L says:
    @Anonymous
    It's a running theme through the album. Respectable, et al.

    How many bands have running phrases in their lyrics across albums?

    There’s that one where Sting seems oddly unable to let go of some time he invested in a large umbrella but the girl some how managed to hog all the rain protection

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  133. @Clifford Brown

    The most depressing song ever is “Waltzing Matilda ” by The Pogues. And nothing is even a close second.
     
    Liam Clancy's rendition is quite moving.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PFCekeoSTwg

    Waltzing Matilda was written by Scottish Australian folk singer Eric Bolger. Bolger also wrote The Green Fields of France, another sad one that was performed by Liam Clancy.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WM_UYzUtu0w

    The Dropkick Murphy's version is also high quality.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YGneFWWNA3g

    ” Waltzing Matilda ” was written by Andrew ” Banjo ” Paterson ( 1855-1941 ).
    No Man’s Land ( ” Green Hills of France ” ) was written by the Scots-born Eric Bogle, an adult emigrant to Australia and not much liked in his native land.

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    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Two different songs. The original "Waltzing Matilda":

    "Waltzing Matilda" is Australia's best-known bush ballad, and has been described as the country's "unofficial national anthem".[1]
     
    The second is this:

    And the Band Played Waltzing Matilda is a song written by Scottish-born Australian singer-songwriter Eric Bogle in 1971. The song describes war as futile and gruesome, while criticising those who seek to glorify it. This is exemplified in the song by the account of a young Australian soldier who is maimed at the Battle of Gallipoli during the First World War. The song incorporates, at its conclusion, the melody and a few lines of lyrics of the 1895 song Waltzing Matilda by Australian poet Banjo Paterson. Many cover versions of the song have been performed and recorded. The song has been praised for its imagery, evoking the devastation at the Gallipoli Landings. The protagonist, who had travelled across rural Australia before the war, is emotionally devastated by the loss of his legs in battle. As the years pass he notes the death of other veterans, while the younger generation becomes apathetic to the veterans and their cause.
     
  134. guest says:
    @Dennis Dale
    I didn't like that one. Not happy--it's a blues song about infidelity, ffs, and just another competent cover. I'd forgotten about it. No, she had a few songs getting airplay from that one big record of hers. I refuse to wiki it.

    It is necessary to differentiate between depressing subject matter and depression-inducing in art. They need not go together.

    A tragic work, if it works, doesn't depress you, even if it inspires melancholy. Catharsis. Of course postmodernism is naturally hostile to the idea. Postmodernism is nothing so much as the idea that there can be no comfort, no respite anywhere in the culture.

    Leftist cultural theorists won't say it, but the idea of people coming away from a performance relieved of moral angst is the last thing they want! You're supposed to be forever discomforted, forever troubled, forever harried by moral, er, harridans in the Current Year.

    That's why it all seems so hollow--and depressing.

    “Not happy–it’s a blues song about infidelity”

    I was comparing it to Fast Car. HappiER.

    “It is necessary to differentiate between depressing subject matter and depression-inducing in art. They need not go together”

    They need not, though they do in Fast Car. Which is also uses a depressing technique to boot, except that they riff is pleasantly catchy.

    “even if it inspires melancholy. Catharsis.”

    If you feel melancholic after catharsis, I don’t think you’re not doing it correctly.

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    • Replies: @guest
    Whoops, I meant I don't think you're doing it correctly. Meaning you're doing it wrong.

    Though there is such a thing as feeling the blues after a big release of emotion, the point of catharsis is to feel good afterwards, not depressed.
  135. @guest
    I don't know about Chapman in particular. The suggestion that people are listening for her singing technique seems odd to me. Maybe lesbo depression rock is popular now. If YouTube viewers are clicking on her to learn about her technique, is that something females are more likely to be interested in?

    We are living through an era with a dearth of popular male vocal virtuosos. But these things run in cycles, I think. Not long ago there was a dominant rock subgenre dedicated to male screeching virtuosity known as heavy metal. Mick Jagger may just be a bad example to pick. Why not pick a male with actual technique, like, I don't know, Aaron Neville?

    An interesting question might be: long-term, which group has the bigger claim to public attention for singing,
    males or females? My guess would be males, because though men are attracted to lady singers they don't swoon over them like girls do their pop idols. Certainly not in isolation from other factors. Maybe "all things being equal" men are attracted to Linda Ronstadt's voice. But they wouldn't be if she looked like Linda Tripp.

    Then again, men lack the storied tradition of the Prima Donna and the Diva.

    Then again again, is there anything in female singing history to compare to the Castrato?

    If I go back prior to the era of modern recording techniques, most all virtuosic names I'd recognize would be male. Starting with the Great Caruso in the modern era, again, most of them would be male.

    men are attracted to Linda Ronstadt’s voice.

    https://youtu.be/haZPPBJC8Ic?t=1

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    • Replies: @Anonymous
    For all his faults, Jann Wenner had one thing right: Linda Ronstadt was the best female pop-rock-country singer of her day. I didn't find her all that attractive physically: not ugly by any means, but nothing about her excited me personally. Her face isn't all that and her body not especially appealing, besides not having been fat in the 70s and early 80s. She did get quite heavy in the later part of her career.

    Probably the best straight country female singer of the time (as she was marketed then) was Emmylou Harris. She had a nice body, much nicer than Linda, with full plump breasts and a reasonably nice bottom, but she covered her assets up well for the most part. Then and now straight men go nuts for her, she has the talent and the looks-she aged pretty well for a long while, although at 70 now she's showing some age. Again, Wenner was enamored with her and gave her much favorable publicity.
  136. anonguy says:
    @AnotherDad

    The first generation to suffer from this constant dislocation of relocation is the generation which made “Fast Car” a success.
     
    Huh?

    The joke when I was a kid was IBM stood for "I've been moved".

    Dad getting moved around by his big corporation was a pretty ho-hum, run of the mill baby-boomer experience. At least for those with college educated--engineer, marketing, finance, managerial--corporate employee (or of course military) parents.

    My understanding--which could be entirely wrong--is that middle class families are actually a little bit less likely to move (at least move from a metro area) this past generation as they often are two-income families and it's a bit harder to transplant both of them.

    My understanding is that Americans are significantly less mobile than they were 20-30+ years ago.

    And after googling it, turns out American mobility has dropped off a cliff since the 1970s

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2013/05/15/the-united-states-is-still-one-of-the-most-mobile-countries-in-the-world/?utm_term=.992fcd81c1af

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  137. Curle says:
    @Dennis Dale
    It's an interesting juxtaposition, Teen Spirit and Fast Car.
    Cobain laments bourgeois culture. His high school is like Foucault's prison, a macrocosm of society exposing the power relationships and madness. He doesn't want to be normal.

    Chapman depicts someone striving for normality, in what I think is a profoundly tragic little phrase, to simply "be someone"; to just have a job, a house, kids. The tragedy is in you knowing she won't get there, event though she doesn't say that--the guitar hook does.

    Cobain shrinks away to nothing in the comparison.

    If you were ever in Aberdeen in the early 90s I think bourgeoise might be the last word used to describe the place. I remember wondering if I’d come across a food store without a giant ‘Food Stamps Accepted Here’ banner out front. Don’t recall finding one.

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  138. anonguy says:
    @Anon
    People of my underground musical ilk thought Chapman was a joke when she first showed up as rock critic drool-fodder. It was obvious that championing her was a SJW rock critic's cretinous and ultimately cynical game of how many oppression tick boxes we can check off. Black, check, female, check, lesbian check, ding ding ding! We have a winner. Let's command all the huddled masses to fall at her feet and worship her as our new messiah! There's just one big problem with Chapman. She's boring.

    Chapman reminds me of Berkeley Breathed's attempt to create a comic strip (Outland) about a black ghetto girl even if it killed him, and the whole thing collapsed in a heap when Breathed realized the strip wasn't funny and it wasn't working.

    When SJWers try to reach personal sainthood by championing someone else, they have a tendency to fall flat on their faces.

    Chapman reminds me of Berkeley Breathed’s attempt to create a comic strip (Outland) about a black ghetto girl even if it killed him, and the whole thing collapsed in a heap when Breathed realized the strip wasn’t funny and it wasn’t working.

    When SJWers try to reach personal sainthood by championing someone else, they have a tendency to fall flat on their faces.

    Breathed skews liberal, but he can be harsh on the left as well. He was always going on about “offensensitivity” way back in the 80s.

    I didn’t realize it, but he’s started drawing Bloom County again, since 2015.

    Now we just need Calvin & Hobbes back.

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  139. I very much doubt that a male sports reporter asked a female professional tennis player about her plans to go shopping. A male sports reporter would a) have no interest in her shopping plans b) know that such a question is not allowed from him under the reigning orthodoxy. It seems much more likely that a female reporter asked this question. So here we have a situation where one female asks another female about her potential plans to go shopping, and then another female reporter writes an article about how the conversation shows male biases! It looks like a lot of hypocrisy there, but no one would admit to it.

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  140. anonguy says:
    @guest
    Fast Car isn't beautiful, though it has a catchy guitar riff. Even when I was a kid and didn't understand the lyrics--I think I was 6 years-old when it came out--I knew it was depressing. In a literal way, not an artful way. Though it was artfully depressing, too. Just not in a way I'd consider beautiful.

    Fast Car isn’t beautiful, though it has a catchy guitar riff. Even when I was a kid and didn’t understand the lyrics–I think I was 6 years-old when it came out–I knew it was depressing. In a literal way, not an artful way. Though it was artfully depressing, too. Just not in a way I’d consider beautiful.

    A lady friend for whom our friendship a bit of escapist fantasy sent me that song early on. In that context, it was super romantic.

    BTW, in the female semiotics department, women who send you songs as a way to express their feelings about the relationship tend to be intense people (with intense relationships) IME.

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  141. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @Achmed E. Newman

    One, Keef hasn’t been busted for decades...
     
    "Decades" doesn't mean that awful long when you are The Rolling Stones. He HAS been arrested just this past century, right? OK, then. Game, set, match, shopping (see, back to the post!)

    Ball's in your court, A. ;-}

    BTW, I don't just know about the album cover, I've GOT the album cover (with a record inside). See you on ebay, bitchez.

    I have two of them. However, at the moment, I do not have a turntable.
    And I’m not going to buy a POS one that will tear up my vinyl. Good ones are spendy.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
    I see. The main thing is to get a good needle. I'd also recommend getting a turntable that has a USB output so you can rip all your records into digital format.
  142. Curle says:
    @Steve Sailer
    I bet Mick would have made a lot of money in the rag trade.

    Here's a question: What fields wouldn't Mick Jagger have done pretty well in?

    Actuary?

    Shouldn’t this be its own post?

    Women’s Studies Professor?

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  143. 2Mintzin1 says:
    @Buzz Mohawk
    Not all the girls are technically good:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2FU3aAEayUE

    A friend of mine, a semi-pro musician, met Spears informally a couple of years ago (he knew some of her business staff)…he played the piano for her and she sang a little. He said she had a good voice, not Aretha-quality, but a professional sound and on-key. That surprised me.

    What none of the pop divas CAN do is to dance and sing accurately for an extended number. This ain’t Broadway, where the songs are carefully composed and choreographed (and the performers are carefully chosen) to allow this.

    A modern pop act has so much electronic support that divas tend to get careless…with the results depicted in this video.
    Wonder how the isolated track was obtained? This is a real Milli Vanilli moment for Spears.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Her fans are mostly happy that after all her troubles a decade ago she can still get out on stage and hoof around energetically to studio recordings of her old hits.
    , @Dave Pinsen
    I've been listening to Muse concerts on YouTube a lot recently -- got a set-up where I watch YouTube on a TV with good sound. Their frontman, Matt Bellamy, nails tough vocal parts live, like the chorus of their hit Starlight here:

    https://youtu.be/R6f_7G71p_w

    To get a sense of how hard that is, watch Brandon Flowers of The Killers struggle with it here:

    https://youtu.be/7kbwtVU-M2o
  144. guest says:
    @guest
    "Not happy--it's a blues song about infidelity"

    I was comparing it to Fast Car. HappiER.

    "It is necessary to differentiate between depressing subject matter and depression-inducing in art. They need not go together"

    They need not, though they do in Fast Car. Which is also uses a depressing technique to boot, except that they riff is pleasantly catchy.

    "even if it inspires melancholy. Catharsis."

    If you feel melancholic after catharsis, I don't think you're not doing it correctly.

    Whoops, I meant I don’t think you’re doing it correctly. Meaning you’re doing it wrong.

    Though there is such a thing as feeling the blues after a big release of emotion, the point of catharsis is to feel good afterwards, not depressed.

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  145. @2Mintzin1
    A friend of mine, a semi-pro musician, met Spears informally a couple of years ago (he knew some of her business staff)...he played the piano for her and she sang a little. He said she had a good voice, not Aretha-quality, but a professional sound and on-key. That surprised me.

    What none of the pop divas CAN do is to dance and sing accurately for an extended number. This ain't Broadway, where the songs are carefully composed and choreographed (and the performers are carefully chosen) to allow this.

    A modern pop act has so much electronic support that divas tend to get careless...with the results depicted in this video.
    Wonder how the isolated track was obtained? This is a real Milli Vanilli moment for Spears.

    Her fans are mostly happy that after all her troubles a decade ago she can still get out on stage and hoof around energetically to studio recordings of her old hits.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Brit is buff, high energy, and not terribly bright. But when in good order, she sang pretty well, all things considered.
  146. benjaminl says:
    @JeremiahJohnbalaya
    The funny thing about Jagger

    The funny thing about the Stones is that their entire bad-boy act was suggested to them by their manager, as a way to separate themselves from the clean (at the time) Beatles image. As a kid I assumed their oddness was natural, but in retrospect i see that it's almost certainly an act. And what is really weird (sad? scary?) is to think that people would evolve and take on that kind of nonnatural persona. Jaggar seems to have done that (whereas some of the other old rockers seem fairly normal).

    (ps. I don't really know that much about the Stones as individuals. I guess Brian Jones had serious mental issues)

    In Keith Richards’s surprisingly well-written autobiography, he [Richards] came across as completely likeable, down-to-earth and matey.

    On the other hand:

    http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/low_concept/2010/11/please_allow_me_to_correct_a_few_things.html

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  147. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @Mr. Anon
    Barrett's Privateers, in a similar vein to the song you mentioned, would be strong contender for "most depressing song"

    Barrett's Privateers

    Here sung by the late canadian folk-singer, Stan Rogers, whose voice resembled (to me at least) that of Orson Welles.

    There is nothing depressing to me about Stan Rogers, except how he died. It was ridiculous and horrible.

    He was probably the best folk singer, if you want to use that term, to come out of Canada and there were a lot of good ones. Liam Clancy introducing another famous Stan Rogers song he frequently sang:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g7Fwg3mowGU

    By contrast, Stompin’ Tom was a shemp.

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  148. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @Steve Sailer
    Her fans are mostly happy that after all her troubles a decade ago she can still get out on stage and hoof around energetically to studio recordings of her old hits.

    Brit is buff, high energy, and not terribly bright. But when in good order, she sang pretty well, all things considered.

    Read More
  149. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @Verymuchalive
    " Waltzing Matilda " was written by Andrew " Banjo " Paterson ( 1855-1941 ).
    No Man's Land ( " Green Hills of France " ) was written by the Scots-born Eric Bogle, an adult emigrant to Australia and not much liked in his native land.

    Two different songs. The original “Waltzing Matilda”:

    “Waltzing Matilda” is Australia’s best-known bush ballad, and has been described as the country’s “unofficial national anthem”.[1]

    The second is this:

    And the Band Played Waltzing Matilda is a song written by Scottish-born Australian singer-songwriter Eric Bogle in 1971. The song describes war as futile and gruesome, while criticising those who seek to glorify it. This is exemplified in the song by the account of a young Australian soldier who is maimed at the Battle of Gallipoli during the First World War. The song incorporates, at its conclusion, the melody and a few lines of lyrics of the 1895 song Waltzing Matilda by Australian poet Banjo Paterson. Many cover versions of the song have been performed and recorded. The song has been praised for its imagery, evoking the devastation at the Gallipoli Landings. The protagonist, who had travelled across rural Australia before the war, is emotionally devastated by the loss of his legs in battle. As the years pass he notes the death of other veterans, while the younger generation becomes apathetic to the veterans and their cause.

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  150. Curle says:
    @BrokenSymmetry
    To address the title of the post, contemporary botanical art is overwhelmingly female dominated (I'd say 90% at least). It's technically rigorous as the paintings have to be photorealistic and botanically accurate while, from the aesthetic aspect, each painting is in a sense a portrait of a particular species/cultivar as the very best paintings capture the essence of that plant.

    My wife has an RHS Gold medal for orchid portraits. A rather telling point is that when she was chatting with the other (female) artists, the conversation was not at all nerdy-technical as in types of paint, paper, brushes, techniques.... Rather the main topic was their favourite plants and tips on cultivation.

    I googled photorealism and answered my own question’why do it?’ Answer, it allows an artist to make a photograph much larger. Follow up question, is this really a pleasurable pursuit or simply an avocation?

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  151. @Fredrik
    Regarding female sports journalists I wonder how many of them are sideline reporters, i.e. women employed for their looks and personality.

    Nearly all of them?

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  152. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @E. Rekshun
    men are attracted to Linda Ronstadt’s voice.

    https://youtu.be/haZPPBJC8Ic?t=1

    For all his faults, Jann Wenner had one thing right: Linda Ronstadt was the best female pop-rock-country singer of her day. I didn’t find her all that attractive physically: not ugly by any means, but nothing about her excited me personally. Her face isn’t all that and her body not especially appealing, besides not having been fat in the 70s and early 80s. She did get quite heavy in the later part of her career.

    Probably the best straight country female singer of the time (as she was marketed then) was Emmylou Harris. She had a nice body, much nicer than Linda, with full plump breasts and a reasonably nice bottom, but she covered her assets up well for the most part. Then and now straight men go nuts for her, she has the talent and the looks-she aged pretty well for a long while, although at 70 now she’s showing some age. Again, Wenner was enamored with her and gave her much favorable publicity.

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  153. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @Sue D. Nim
    Another version of "Imagine" - an antidote to the awful John Lennon crap:

    www.youtube.com/watch?v=VOmiHTKHbNs

    I like to think the old hippy is turning in his grave.

    Lennon and McCartney were like the Good Kirk and Bad Kirk in that episode of Star Trek when Kirk was split into two separate people in a transporter accident. On their own Lennon was a prick, McCartney a low T veggie queef. Together, they were as close as rock has come to any of the classic tin pan alley songwriting teams.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Authenticjazzman
    Agreed

    "If I fell" (In love with you), my favorite Beatles tune, being up there with the Tin Pan Alley folks.

    Authenticjazzman "Mensa" qualified since 1973, airborne trained US Army vet, and Pro jazz musician/vocalist.
  154. Brutusale says:
    @oddsbodkins
    That, or "Everybody knows"

    But I think "Fiddle about" by The Who might be the most depressing song ever.

    A much darker take on the same subject by Tool’s Maynard James Keenan.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KWSDZI5Tsgs

    http://www.songfacts.com/detail.php?id=2372

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  155. @Anonymous
    I have two of them. However, at the moment, I do not have a turntable.
    And I'm not going to buy a POS one that will tear up my vinyl. Good ones are spendy.

    I see. The main thing is to get a good needle. I’d also recommend getting a turntable that has a USB output so you can rip all your records into digital format.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    USB tables suck. Almost all are cheap crap.

    You really want a Michell Gyrodec or a LP12 Linn Sondek, except the price on them is stupid high. VPIs are good too, but I'm not a fan of unipivot tone arms.

    My old rig was a modded AR table with a Grace arm and a Sumiko Blue Point into a homebrew Marantz 7 phono stage driving VTL amps and Altec 604s with Doug Sax crossovers.

    I'm pretty spoiled after that.
  156. Kind of depressing songs:

    “Ode to Billy Joe,” Bobbi Gentry.

    “Taxi,” Harry Chapin

    “Operator,” Jim Croce.

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  157. ““After practice, can you put tennis a little bit behind you and have dinner, shopping, have a little bit of fun?” It is not hard to guess the gender of that player.”

    Because men are not allowed to “have fun”. For men, “have fun” solely means sex and nothing else. Men, at best, are sometimes permitted to “kick back and relax”.

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  158. Asdf says:
    @Anonymous
    One, Keef hasn't been busted for decades (I think his last bust was for H in Toronto in the seventies).

    Some Girls was the Stones' attempt at a 'punk' or 'new wave' album. Younger critics said it was about as "punk" as Barbra Streisand's Stoney End. It did have 'edgy' album cover graphics with die cut outer cover and inner sleeve with pictures underneath. Guitarwise, it had a harder, edgier sound because Keith had started using the Mesa Boogie amplifier and guitars with EMG pickups, which are usually preferred by heavy metal guitarists (Gilmour uses them, as do a lot of bar band country players because they are low impedance and very quiet). But there was no attempt to do anything as a tribute to Lou Reed on that album, or to 'take the piss on' any specific band either.

    However, Marianne Faithful could not resist a swipe at a prettier, younger new upstart. Never mind that she was actually a year and a half older....oops....

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CkHhSiJxHrQ

    Was Debby Harry was the upstart referred to?

    Marianne’s song wasnt that bad incidentally. Imho.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    It's pretty obviously a swing at the Kraftwerk inpired synth work and the general gestalt of Blondie circa Parallel Lines and 'Call Me."

    Debbie was and is a better singer and a better looking woman than Marianne Faithfull. Having said that, neither woman had the career success on the US pop charts she should have. Marianne's talent has always been shadowed by being more notorious for being Mick's plaything. Mars Bar and all that.
  159. Dave Pinsen says: • Website
    @2Mintzin1
    A friend of mine, a semi-pro musician, met Spears informally a couple of years ago (he knew some of her business staff)...he played the piano for her and she sang a little. He said she had a good voice, not Aretha-quality, but a professional sound and on-key. That surprised me.

    What none of the pop divas CAN do is to dance and sing accurately for an extended number. This ain't Broadway, where the songs are carefully composed and choreographed (and the performers are carefully chosen) to allow this.

    A modern pop act has so much electronic support that divas tend to get careless...with the results depicted in this video.
    Wonder how the isolated track was obtained? This is a real Milli Vanilli moment for Spears.

    I’ve been listening to Muse concerts on YouTube a lot recently — got a set-up where I watch YouTube on a TV with good sound. Their frontman, Matt Bellamy, nails tough vocal parts live, like the chorus of their hit Starlight here:

    https://youtu.be/R6f_7G71p_w

    To get a sense of how hard that is, watch Brandon Flowers of The Killers struggle with it here:

    https://youtu.be/7kbwtVU-M2o

    Read More
  160. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @Asdf
    Was Debby Harry was the upstart referred to?

    Marianne's song wasnt that bad incidentally. Imho.

    It’s pretty obviously a swing at the Kraftwerk inpired synth work and the general gestalt of Blondie circa Parallel Lines and ‘Call Me.”

    Debbie was and is a better singer and a better looking woman than Marianne Faithfull. Having said that, neither woman had the career success on the US pop charts she should have. Marianne’s talent has always been shadowed by being more notorious for being Mick’s plaything. Mars Bar and all that.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Clyde
    Debby Harry is 72 and still out there plugging away, doing concerts under Blondie and her own name. In Europe too.
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/music/rockandpopfeatures/11432214/Debbie-Harry-on-punk-refusing-to-retire-and-sex-at-69.html
    , @guest
    "neither woman had the career success on the U.S. pop charts she should have"

    Are we talking as solo acts? Because why wouldn't we count Blondie's success on the U.S. charts towards Debbie Harry's running total? Millions of albums sold and 4 #1 singles. Can you really argue about the "should"s of success beyond her previous success? Very, very few acts stay at that level for more than few years, no matter how worthy.

    Although, I must say I can't speak intelligently on her solo stuff, because I' can't remember hearing any of it. Not counting French Kissing in the USA from the movie Troop Beverly Hills, and her version of the song Mind Over Matter from the classic Summer School (sung by E.G. Daily in the movie). Which speaks in favor of your point, if she found success with it elsewhere.

  161. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @Achmed E. Newman
    I see. The main thing is to get a good needle. I'd also recommend getting a turntable that has a USB output so you can rip all your records into digital format.

    USB tables suck. Almost all are cheap crap.

    You really want a Michell Gyrodec or a LP12 Linn Sondek, except the price on them is stupid high. VPIs are good too, but I’m not a fan of unipivot tone arms.

    My old rig was a modded AR table with a Grace arm and a Sumiko Blue Point into a homebrew Marantz 7 phono stage driving VTL amps and Altec 604s with Doug Sax crossovers.

    I’m pretty spoiled after that.

    Read More
    • Replies: @res
    How about something like ART USB Phono Plus Phono Preamp with USB attached to a mid-range rig? Obviously does not compete with the kind of gear you are describing, but what would you recommend to digitize records?

    P.S. Less than $100 sounds like a surprisingly reasonable price for that.
  162. Clyde says:
    @Achmed E. Newman

    You would think the patriarchy would get a shutout every so often for making and providing all the great things women get to go shopping for.
     
    They will appreciate it in hindsight when TSHTF. As usual, too late. Don't it always seem to go, you don't know what you've got till it's gone. "They paved paradise, put up a parking lot."

    you found my reply to you! and it was shout out to the patriarchy.
    Men design and manufacture common labor saving devices for the fairer sex and all it did was give them swelled heads. Women/wives who had to produce family meals without refrigerators and modern instant on and off stoves. This required a brain that was good at logistics. Then modern washing machines take the slavery/drudgery of of cleaning clothes by hand. What a workout that must have been.

    How about hot and cold running water coming into your kitchens and bathrooms so that the woman does not have to haul water into the house from an outside hand pump.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
    You mentioned a number of things, Clyde, but let's face it. If men had the same drive and innovation level as women, we would all be living in caves still. I'm glad it's not that way, and viva la difference.

    Hey "shout out" is the only phrase or anything else I liked that came out of the pie hole of Øb☭ma.
  163. Clyde says:
    @Anonymous
    It's pretty obviously a swing at the Kraftwerk inpired synth work and the general gestalt of Blondie circa Parallel Lines and 'Call Me."

    Debbie was and is a better singer and a better looking woman than Marianne Faithfull. Having said that, neither woman had the career success on the US pop charts she should have. Marianne's talent has always been shadowed by being more notorious for being Mick's plaything. Mars Bar and all that.

    Debby Harry is 72 and still out there plugging away, doing concerts under Blondie and her own name. In Europe too.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/music/rockandpopfeatures/11432214/Debbie-Harry-on-punk-refusing-to-retire-and-sex-at-69.html

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Sadly, the current Blondie album, Pollinator which is the best thing by far they have done since their first reunion album (No Exit) is getting zero US airplay. It's doing somewhat better in the UK and Europe as we all predicted. (Maria went number one in most every Anglophone market besides the US in 1998 and several European markets too.)

    That said, I can't get too upset by this for the simple reason that it does not have a credible radio single on it, and they knew it going out the door.

    Stevie Nicks has been telling the story at her recent gigs of how she did not want to put Stop Dragging My Heart Around on her debut solo album because she had to kick one of her existing songs off it. Iovine prevailed and she now has a solo career which wouldn't have happened otherwise.

    It almost seems as if Debbie has carefully stayed herself from doing what would be really successful. I suspect she is smart enough to know exactly what she is doing, she doesn't want bigtime attention: she wants to stay just barely inside the shade.

    On the other hand, she's talked about how much fun it would be to have one more big charting hit.
    The obvious path would be to do just what Stevie did, a duet with some guy with the right "street cred" whose voice would work with hers. In her case, Tom Petty would be a poor choice, not just because they would be awkward vocally but because there's evidence they don't care for each other-Blondie opened for Petty in around '78 or so.

    If she pulls it off she'd have radio hits across five decades.
  164. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @Clyde
    Debby Harry is 72 and still out there plugging away, doing concerts under Blondie and her own name. In Europe too.
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/music/rockandpopfeatures/11432214/Debbie-Harry-on-punk-refusing-to-retire-and-sex-at-69.html

    Sadly, the current Blondie album, Pollinator which is the best thing by far they have done since their first reunion album (No Exit) is getting zero US airplay. It’s doing somewhat better in the UK and Europe as we all predicted. (Maria went number one in most every Anglophone market besides the US in 1998 and several European markets too.)

    That said, I can’t get too upset by this for the simple reason that it does not have a credible radio single on it, and they knew it going out the door.

    Stevie Nicks has been telling the story at her recent gigs of how she did not want to put Stop Dragging My Heart Around on her debut solo album because she had to kick one of her existing songs off it. Iovine prevailed and she now has a solo career which wouldn’t have happened otherwise.

    It almost seems as if Debbie has carefully stayed herself from doing what would be really successful. I suspect she is smart enough to know exactly what she is doing, she doesn’t want bigtime attention: she wants to stay just barely inside the shade.

    On the other hand, she’s talked about how much fun it would be to have one more big charting hit.
    The obvious path would be to do just what Stevie did, a duet with some guy with the right “street cred” whose voice would work with hers. In her case, Tom Petty would be a poor choice, not just because they would be awkward vocally but because there’s evidence they don’t care for each other-Blondie opened for Petty in around ’78 or so.

    If she pulls it off she’d have radio hits across five decades.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman

    Stevie Nicks has been telling the story at her recent gigs of how she did not want to put Stop Dragging My Heart Around on her debut solo album because she had to kick one of her existing songs off it. Iovine prevailed and she now has a solo career which wouldn’t have happened otherwise.
     
    No matter, Christy McVie kicked Stevie Nick's ass in terms of voice quality. I can't say all the best of the woman-vocalled Fleetwood Mac songs were sung by her, but I think she sounded much better. (Lindsey Buckingham sang on a lot of their songs.)

    I just put that little tidbit in here, in keeping with the subject of this post what this post has evolved into.
    , @Clyde
    You know your beans! My simple comment is what sounded high tech and amazing back then, today sounds like folk music and under produced. Led Zeppelin and Blondie being good examples.
  165. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @Anon 2
    Sociologists say that it takes 300 years for
    a class system to become established. Hence
    there is a clear class system in New England
    (e.g., many people in South Boston feel they don't
    belong in Harvard Square) or St. Louis but not
    in Kansas City or California. Unless shaken up
    by revolutions or wars, societies become ossified with the
    passage of time. There is much less geographical
    mobility as well, certainly less today than during the
    postwar period when it seemed like everybody was
    on the go. Kerouac's "On the Road" (1957 - 60th anniversary
    in September!) was an expression of his fascination with
    the quintessential American restlessness.

    I'm personally amazed how hitchhiking, which was so common
    in the U.S. in the 1930s-'70s, suddenly came to a stop around
    1980. I often offered rides to hippies and plain hitchhikers in the '70s,
    and then they vanished. Loss of trust after well-publicized murders
    and rapes? That's certainly one factor, except that in my experience
    it happened so suddenly.

    Sociologists say that it takes 300 years for
    a class system to become established. Hence
    there is a clear class system in New England
    (e.g., many people in South Boston feel they don’t
    belong in Harvard Square) or St. Louis but not
    in Kansas City or California.

    Having spent half my life in Kansas City and St. Louis, it never occurred to me that that sums up the difference between the two towns.

    Remember Kelly Flinn, the sluttish bomber pilot? In her generally soapy autobiography, she does manage to bring up an interesting fact. At the US Air Force Academy, cadets had to fill out a form rating the meal for quality and satisfaction. As in everything trainees in the military are subjected to, there is a right answer for each question. The form was not designed to actually rate the cafeteria service but to require the cadets to do something in a specific way, and if you answered the “survey” with an unstandard answer there was some consequence. Everyone memorized the “right” answer.

    Flinn revealed that USAFA alumni could always identify each other by repeating those answers demanded on the form in order. No one else would know that. She did not, however, reveal the answers themselves. Since that book’s publication (and subsequent shredding, I’m sure) several web sites have made the form and the expected answers public knowledge.

    Well, there is a way to identify people from St. Louis. The St. Louis Question.

    Its answer is pretty definitive in identifying those from the area, and in establishing who is who in the order of status:

    “Where did you go to school?”

    Here’s the spoiler: no matter if you are a cement truck driver or a neurosurgeon, they are not asking where you went to college or grad school. They are asking where you went to high school.

    KC, to be sure, has its Rockhursts and its Pem Days, but nothing like the barrage of Catholic and nonsectarian private schools in St. Louis and its intricacies of public school districts and the bizarre rules permitting certain students to go to school across this line or that. One of the scions of the town’s biggest families (think beer) went to a public high school : his family home was nearly twenty miles away.

    The social pecking order in St. Louis is of an entirely different magnitude than that in Kansas City. STL is closer to any of several really large Northeastern cities, whereas KC is just Wichita writ large.

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  166. guest says:
    @Anonymous
    It's pretty obviously a swing at the Kraftwerk inpired synth work and the general gestalt of Blondie circa Parallel Lines and 'Call Me."

    Debbie was and is a better singer and a better looking woman than Marianne Faithfull. Having said that, neither woman had the career success on the US pop charts she should have. Marianne's talent has always been shadowed by being more notorious for being Mick's plaything. Mars Bar and all that.

    “neither woman had the career success on the U.S. pop charts she should have”

    Are we talking as solo acts? Because why wouldn’t we count Blondie’s success on the U.S. charts towards Debbie Harry’s running total? Millions of albums sold and 4 #1 singles. Can you really argue about the “should”s of success beyond her previous success? Very, very few acts stay at that level for more than few years, no matter how worthy.

    Although, I must say I can’t speak intelligently on her solo stuff, because I’ can’t remember hearing any of it. Not counting French Kissing in the USA from the movie Troop Beverly Hills, and her version of the song Mind Over Matter from the classic Summer School (sung by E.G. Daily in the movie). Which speaks in favor of your point, if she found success with it elsewhere.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    One word: Madonna.

    Here in Flyover Central three out of four people- I do not exaggerate- have no idea who Debbie Harry is. One hundred percent know Madonna.

    Honestly, Madge did work harder and did work the media for notoriety with no shame. D has comported herself with quiet dignity (although the Rock Hall debacle was a stain on the band forever) and stayed out of scandal and slutty embarrassment. And whereas Madge is buff, Deb did put on some poundage there for a while.

    Still- who is prettier, who is the better singer, and which of them is actually a good actress and which a dreadful one? And Blondie the band has great rocking pop songs and the incomparable Clem Burke.

    I rest my case.
  167. sb says:
    @Peterike
    The most depressing song ever is "Waltzing Matilda " by The Pogues. And nothing is even a close second. What other song sums up the demise of the greatest civilization in history in about eight minutes?

    Would that be ” And the band played Waltzing Matilda ” rather than “Waltzing Matilda ” ?

    They are different songs

    Eric Bogle wrote “And the band played Waltzing Matilda “

    Read More
  168. @Dennis Dale
    Style matters more than technique. But then, Leonard Cohen would have been mocked and thrown out of American Idol tryouts.

    Cohen, along with Lou Reed, are without a doubt the worst off-key “singers” to have ever attacked the clueless public ear, add to this Whitney Houstons horrible : “I will allways love you” and then you have the complete formula for the achievement of mass deafness of the American public.

    Contrast these talentless enemies of music with Helen Forrest or Peggy Lee, Julie London, or the Four Freshmen, the Hi-Los, and then one has a vision of music heaven as contrasted with music hell.

    Fact is these horrid “Singers” simply did not, do not understand what “On key” or “Off key” even means and they represent the decline of a geat music-loving nation into a conglomerate of ugly sounds and then we arrive at “Rap”.

    Authenticjazzman “Mensa” qualified since 1973, airborne trained US Army vet, pro jazz musician, and vocalist.

    PS Chapman and Armatrading are leftist icons, sort of like the “Women are doing it for themselves” screamer T Turner, with her leather skirt and spread-legs.

    Read More
  169. @Anonymous
    Lennon and McCartney were like the Good Kirk and Bad Kirk in that episode of Star Trek when Kirk was split into two separate people in a transporter accident. On their own Lennon was a prick, McCartney a low T veggie queef. Together, they were as close as rock has come to any of the classic tin pan alley songwriting teams.

    Agreed

    “If I fell” (In love with you), my favorite Beatles tune, being up there with the Tin Pan Alley folks.

    Authenticjazzman “Mensa” qualified since 1973, airborne trained US Army vet, and Pro jazz musician/vocalist.

    Read More
  170. res says:
    @Anonymous
    USB tables suck. Almost all are cheap crap.

    You really want a Michell Gyrodec or a LP12 Linn Sondek, except the price on them is stupid high. VPIs are good too, but I'm not a fan of unipivot tone arms.

    My old rig was a modded AR table with a Grace arm and a Sumiko Blue Point into a homebrew Marantz 7 phono stage driving VTL amps and Altec 604s with Doug Sax crossovers.

    I'm pretty spoiled after that.

    How about something like ART USB Phono Plus Phono Preamp with USB attached to a mid-range rig? Obviously does not compete with the kind of gear you are describing, but what would you recommend to digitize records?

    P.S. Less than $100 sounds like a surprisingly reasonable price for that.

    Read More
    • Replies: @cthulhu
    That ART phono preamp should be fine for digitizing anything but the most demanding Telarc or direct-to-disc mastered LPs; just pair it with a reasonable cartridge and turntable (a $200 turntable and $100 cartridge will be plenty good enough). There are plenty of audiophool cork-sniffers who will tell you you not to bother unless you spend multiple thousands of dollars on gear, but they're full of it.

    (Back in the day, 1983 through maybe 1990, I used an Ortofon cartridge on a Technics turntable through the marvelous phono section of the magnificent Apt/Holman preamp, dubbing my LPs onto TDK metal tape cassettes using a Nakamichi tape deck with Dolby C; I scrupulously cleaned the record, aligned the heads, adjusted the recording bias and levels to get a dub essentially indistinguishable from the LP (and, from 1985 on, my CDs). The destination was my Nakamichi cassette deck in my car. Yes, I was serious about my music.)
  171. cthulhu says:
    @res
    How about something like ART USB Phono Plus Phono Preamp with USB attached to a mid-range rig? Obviously does not compete with the kind of gear you are describing, but what would you recommend to digitize records?

    P.S. Less than $100 sounds like a surprisingly reasonable price for that.

    That ART phono preamp should be fine for digitizing anything but the most demanding Telarc or direct-to-disc mastered LPs; just pair it with a reasonable cartridge and turntable (a $200 turntable and $100 cartridge will be plenty good enough). There are plenty of audiophool cork-sniffers who will tell you you not to bother unless you spend multiple thousands of dollars on gear, but they’re full of it.

    (Back in the day, 1983 through maybe 1990, I used an Ortofon cartridge on a Technics turntable through the marvelous phono section of the magnificent Apt/Holman preamp, dubbing my LPs onto TDK metal tape cassettes using a Nakamichi tape deck with Dolby C; I scrupulously cleaned the record, aligned the heads, adjusted the recording bias and levels to get a dub essentially indistinguishable from the LP (and, from 1985 on, my CDs). The destination was my Nakamichi cassette deck in my car. Yes, I was serious about my music.)

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    The main thing is not to tear up your records. For this you need a decent arm, a decent cartridge of a compliance suited to the arm, a stylus in good shape and the tools and skills to set them up. Any decent table that is stable and sturdy enough to mount this is okay from that standpoint.

    I never worried too much about making digital recordings of vinyl. The USB gadget is worth a shot, but serious efforts will involve a good phono stage and a decent ADC.

    Good reasonably priced gear has gotten scarce because of audiophools with a lot of money being most of the market. Regular people don't care about good sound any more. There is no more AR or Hafler making decent simple stuff reasonably priced.
  172. @Clyde
    you found my reply to you! and it was shout out to the patriarchy.
    Men design and manufacture common labor saving devices for the fairer sex and all it did was give them swelled heads. Women/wives who had to produce family meals without refrigerators and modern instant on and off stoves. This required a brain that was good at logistics. Then modern washing machines take the slavery/drudgery of of cleaning clothes by hand. What a workout that must have been.

    How about hot and cold running water coming into your kitchens and bathrooms so that the woman does not have to haul water into the house from an outside hand pump.

    You mentioned a number of things, Clyde, but let’s face it. If men had the same drive and innovation level as women, we would all be living in caves still. I’m glad it’s not that way, and viva la difference.

    Hey “shout out” is the only phrase or anything else I liked that came out of the pie hole of Øb☭ma.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Clyde
    Of course the Obama shout out in to Medicine Joe (some Indian jamoke) before he would bring up the Fort Hood massacre two minutes in.

    Obama's Frightening Insensitivity Following Shooting - …
    www.nbcconnecticut.com/news/politics/A-Disconnected-President.html
    President Obama took way to long to get serious while speaking after the ... the president thanked various staffers and offered a "shout-out" to "Dr. Joe Medicine ...

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Medicine_Crow
    , @Clyde
    Women do not innovate. They prefer weaving within the loom of hierarchies of male status and male created tech and industry/ But they can create a new life, which men are in awe of. So the balance of power is equal.
  173. @Anonymous
    Sadly, the current Blondie album, Pollinator which is the best thing by far they have done since their first reunion album (No Exit) is getting zero US airplay. It's doing somewhat better in the UK and Europe as we all predicted. (Maria went number one in most every Anglophone market besides the US in 1998 and several European markets too.)

    That said, I can't get too upset by this for the simple reason that it does not have a credible radio single on it, and they knew it going out the door.

    Stevie Nicks has been telling the story at her recent gigs of how she did not want to put Stop Dragging My Heart Around on her debut solo album because she had to kick one of her existing songs off it. Iovine prevailed and she now has a solo career which wouldn't have happened otherwise.

    It almost seems as if Debbie has carefully stayed herself from doing what would be really successful. I suspect she is smart enough to know exactly what she is doing, she doesn't want bigtime attention: she wants to stay just barely inside the shade.

    On the other hand, she's talked about how much fun it would be to have one more big charting hit.
    The obvious path would be to do just what Stevie did, a duet with some guy with the right "street cred" whose voice would work with hers. In her case, Tom Petty would be a poor choice, not just because they would be awkward vocally but because there's evidence they don't care for each other-Blondie opened for Petty in around '78 or so.

    If she pulls it off she'd have radio hits across five decades.

    Stevie Nicks has been telling the story at her recent gigs of how she did not want to put Stop Dragging My Heart Around on her debut solo album because she had to kick one of her existing songs off it. Iovine prevailed and she now has a solo career which wouldn’t have happened otherwise.

    No matter, Christy McVie kicked Stevie Nick’s ass in terms of voice quality. I can’t say all the best of the woman-vocalled Fleetwood Mac songs were sung by her, but I think she sounded much better. (Lindsey Buckingham sang on a lot of their songs.)

    I just put that little tidbit in here, in keeping with the subject of this post what this post has evolved into.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Christine McVie is a great pop singer and songwriter. FM had a lot of its success because of her. Not to take anything from Stevie.
  174. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @cthulhu
    That ART phono preamp should be fine for digitizing anything but the most demanding Telarc or direct-to-disc mastered LPs; just pair it with a reasonable cartridge and turntable (a $200 turntable and $100 cartridge will be plenty good enough). There are plenty of audiophool cork-sniffers who will tell you you not to bother unless you spend multiple thousands of dollars on gear, but they're full of it.

    (Back in the day, 1983 through maybe 1990, I used an Ortofon cartridge on a Technics turntable through the marvelous phono section of the magnificent Apt/Holman preamp, dubbing my LPs onto TDK metal tape cassettes using a Nakamichi tape deck with Dolby C; I scrupulously cleaned the record, aligned the heads, adjusted the recording bias and levels to get a dub essentially indistinguishable from the LP (and, from 1985 on, my CDs). The destination was my Nakamichi cassette deck in my car. Yes, I was serious about my music.)

    The main thing is not to tear up your records. For this you need a decent arm, a decent cartridge of a compliance suited to the arm, a stylus in good shape and the tools and skills to set them up. Any decent table that is stable and sturdy enough to mount this is okay from that standpoint.

    I never worried too much about making digital recordings of vinyl. The USB gadget is worth a shot, but serious efforts will involve a good phono stage and a decent ADC.

    Good reasonably priced gear has gotten scarce because of audiophools with a lot of money being most of the market. Regular people don’t care about good sound any more. There is no more AR or Hafler making decent simple stuff reasonably priced.

    Read More
  175. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @Achmed E. Newman

    Stevie Nicks has been telling the story at her recent gigs of how she did not want to put Stop Dragging My Heart Around on her debut solo album because she had to kick one of her existing songs off it. Iovine prevailed and she now has a solo career which wouldn’t have happened otherwise.
     
    No matter, Christy McVie kicked Stevie Nick's ass in terms of voice quality. I can't say all the best of the woman-vocalled Fleetwood Mac songs were sung by her, but I think she sounded much better. (Lindsey Buckingham sang on a lot of their songs.)

    I just put that little tidbit in here, in keeping with the subject of this post what this post has evolved into.

    Christine McVie is a great pop singer and songwriter. FM had a lot of its success because of her. Not to take anything from Stevie.

    Read More
  176. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @guest
    "neither woman had the career success on the U.S. pop charts she should have"

    Are we talking as solo acts? Because why wouldn't we count Blondie's success on the U.S. charts towards Debbie Harry's running total? Millions of albums sold and 4 #1 singles. Can you really argue about the "should"s of success beyond her previous success? Very, very few acts stay at that level for more than few years, no matter how worthy.

    Although, I must say I can't speak intelligently on her solo stuff, because I' can't remember hearing any of it. Not counting French Kissing in the USA from the movie Troop Beverly Hills, and her version of the song Mind Over Matter from the classic Summer School (sung by E.G. Daily in the movie). Which speaks in favor of your point, if she found success with it elsewhere.

    One word: Madonna.

    Here in Flyover Central three out of four people- I do not exaggerate- have no idea who Debbie Harry is. One hundred percent know Madonna.

    Honestly, Madge did work harder and did work the media for notoriety with no shame. D has comported herself with quiet dignity (although the Rock Hall debacle was a stain on the band forever) and stayed out of scandal and slutty embarrassment. And whereas Madge is buff, Deb did put on some poundage there for a while.

    Still- who is prettier, who is the better singer, and which of them is actually a good actress and which a dreadful one? And Blondie the band has great rocking pop songs and the incomparable Clem Burke.

    I rest my case.

    Read More
    • Replies: @guest
    Madonna is one member of a very select club. Maybe not quite the Sinatra-Elvis-Michael Jackson club, but up there. Obviously there are more talented people, but you can't demand someone be Madonna on the basis of talent.

    I think you overstate the case with Flyover Country. They may not know who Debbie Harry is, but they know her music. Heart of Glass, the Tide Is High, One Way or Another, Rapture, all of them still get airplay and are still featured in movies, commercials, and such.
  177. GregMan says:

    Do we have to stick to Rock for nominations for World’s Saddest Song? I pick Sinatra’s version of “September Song”, particularly now that I’m in my fifties’. It strikes a chord I’d rather not have struck.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman

    It strikes a chord I’d rather not have struck.
     
    Hey, try a different tuning, Greg - maybe a drop D. Or play on the mixolydian scale like Jerry. If you want to expand this commenting to all types of music, I would say, other than "Taps", I would go ahead and include all of Hip-Hop. It makes me depressed that I don't have enough money to live forever away from these people, or at least buy bigger woofers to blast their asses out of their rims with some Cheap Trick "Live at Budokan".

    This is money-back guaranteed not to depress you:

    https://www.youtube.co/watch?v=th370QmFtk8list=PL4BBrYxngWgRKTmgclMDC0t17ccCKxIYr

    When some Mexicans were blasting some mariachi crap while working next door, I just played this album with my speakers out the back porch for the entire afternoon. Get some culture, Pablo!
  178. guest says:
    @Anonymous
    One word: Madonna.

    Here in Flyover Central three out of four people- I do not exaggerate- have no idea who Debbie Harry is. One hundred percent know Madonna.

    Honestly, Madge did work harder and did work the media for notoriety with no shame. D has comported herself with quiet dignity (although the Rock Hall debacle was a stain on the band forever) and stayed out of scandal and slutty embarrassment. And whereas Madge is buff, Deb did put on some poundage there for a while.

    Still- who is prettier, who is the better singer, and which of them is actually a good actress and which a dreadful one? And Blondie the band has great rocking pop songs and the incomparable Clem Burke.

    I rest my case.

    Madonna is one member of a very select club. Maybe not quite the Sinatra-Elvis-Michael Jackson club, but up there. Obviously there are more talented people, but you can’t demand someone be Madonna on the basis of talent.

    I think you overstate the case with Flyover Country. They may not know who Debbie Harry is, but they know her music. Heart of Glass, the Tide Is High, One Way or Another, Rapture, all of them still get airplay and are still featured in movies, commercials, and such.

    Read More
  179. @Erik L
    love that one though to me it's not about sadness; it's about disillusionment

    Certainly disillusionment is there, too. But I don’t know what to call dismemberment and seeing your friends blown apart for a cause that your country forgets about in your lifetime if not sadness.

    Read More
  180. Clyde says:
    @Achmed E. Newman
    You mentioned a number of things, Clyde, but let's face it. If men had the same drive and innovation level as women, we would all be living in caves still. I'm glad it's not that way, and viva la difference.

    Hey "shout out" is the only phrase or anything else I liked that came out of the pie hole of Øb☭ma.

    Of course the Obama shout out in to Medicine Joe (some Indian jamoke) before he would bring up the Fort Hood massacre two minutes in.

    Obama’s Frightening Insensitivity Following Shooting – …
    http://www.nbcconnecticut.com/news/politics/A-Disconnected-President.html
    President Obama took way to long to get serious while speaking after the … the president thanked various staffers and offered a “shout-out” to “Dr. Joe Medicine …

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Medicine_Crow

    Read More
  181. Clyde says:
    @Achmed E. Newman
    You mentioned a number of things, Clyde, but let's face it. If men had the same drive and innovation level as women, we would all be living in caves still. I'm glad it's not that way, and viva la difference.

    Hey "shout out" is the only phrase or anything else I liked that came out of the pie hole of Øb☭ma.

    Women do not innovate. They prefer weaving within the loom of hierarchies of male status and male created tech and industry/ But they can create a new life, which men are in awe of. So the balance of power is equal.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman

    So the balance of power is equal.
     
    Inherently, it is, but only in a conservative society. This matriarchy we have now makes most men pretty powerless and puts them at big risk, especially wrt marriage.

    As to your other reply, you jogged my memory about that "shout-out" business. Yeah, a dozen soldiers murdered on base by a Moslem wasn't really in the front of his mind (as in he didn't give a crap). I like your term Jamoke! To be a little more PC though, that's Native American Jamoke to you sir!
  182. Clyde says:
    @Anonymous
    Sadly, the current Blondie album, Pollinator which is the best thing by far they have done since their first reunion album (No Exit) is getting zero US airplay. It's doing somewhat better in the UK and Europe as we all predicted. (Maria went number one in most every Anglophone market besides the US in 1998 and several European markets too.)

    That said, I can't get too upset by this for the simple reason that it does not have a credible radio single on it, and they knew it going out the door.

    Stevie Nicks has been telling the story at her recent gigs of how she did not want to put Stop Dragging My Heart Around on her debut solo album because she had to kick one of her existing songs off it. Iovine prevailed and she now has a solo career which wouldn't have happened otherwise.

    It almost seems as if Debbie has carefully stayed herself from doing what would be really successful. I suspect she is smart enough to know exactly what she is doing, she doesn't want bigtime attention: she wants to stay just barely inside the shade.

    On the other hand, she's talked about how much fun it would be to have one more big charting hit.
    The obvious path would be to do just what Stevie did, a duet with some guy with the right "street cred" whose voice would work with hers. In her case, Tom Petty would be a poor choice, not just because they would be awkward vocally but because there's evidence they don't care for each other-Blondie opened for Petty in around '78 or so.

    If she pulls it off she'd have radio hits across five decades.

    You know your beans! My simple comment is what sounded high tech and amazing back then, today sounds like folk music and under produced. Led Zeppelin and Blondie being good examples.

    Read More
  183. PerezHBD says:

    Your YouTube analysis is highly flawed. I imagine the 55 million Fast Car video is “official” and has no worry of being taken down. How many million count unofficial Shattered videos have come and gone since YouTube was founded? You’d need access number of hits each and every unofficial Shattered video that has been taken down for copyright (which probably numbers in the thousands) received in order to make a proper comparison. Your comparison works only with recent artists that have official, label approved videos uploaded. Jake Paul vs Miley Cyrus would work. Led Zeppelin vs The Clash would not.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
    That's what I said already - comment # 34:

    ... but that is not the best stat in the world, because sometimes lots of people put up the same song, and the hits get spread around. Then some get taken off “the tube”...
     
    With a wider audience, more videos get made, and the hits get spread around.
  184. Escher says:

    Liye Fu, Cristian Danescu-Niculescu-Mizil and Lillian Lee, three computer scientists at Cornell, built algorithms to find out whether such examples were isolated incidents or reflective of a broader pattern. These algorithms processed the language in tens of thousands of questions spanning thousands of matches over 15 years and looked for how their content differed between genders.

    Taxpayer money hard at work on research topics of world importance.

    Read More
  185. @GregMan
    Do we have to stick to Rock for nominations for World's Saddest Song? I pick Sinatra's version of "September Song", particularly now that I'm in my fifties'. It strikes a chord I'd rather not have struck.

    It strikes a chord I’d rather not have struck.

    Hey, try a different tuning, Greg – maybe a drop D. Or play on the mixolydian scale like Jerry. If you want to expand this commenting to all types of music, I would say, other than “Taps”, I would go ahead and include all of Hip-Hop. It makes me depressed that I don’t have enough money to live forever away from these people, or at least buy bigger woofers to blast their asses out of their rims with some Cheap Trick “Live at Budokan”.

    This is money-back guaranteed not to depress you:

    https://www.youtube.co/watch?v=th370QmFtk8list=PL4BBrYxngWgRKTmgclMDC0t17ccCKxIYr

    When some Mexicans were blasting some mariachi crap while working next door, I just played this album with my speakers out the back porch for the entire afternoon. Get some culture, Pablo!

    Read More
  186. @PerezHBD
    Your YouTube analysis is highly flawed. I imagine the 55 million Fast Car video is "official" and has no worry of being taken down. How many million count unofficial Shattered videos have come and gone since YouTube was founded? You'd need access number of hits each and every unofficial Shattered video that has been taken down for copyright (which probably numbers in the thousands) received in order to make a proper comparison. Your comparison works only with recent artists that have official, label approved videos uploaded. Jake Paul vs Miley Cyrus would work. Led Zeppelin vs The Clash would not.

    That’s what I said already – comment # 34:

    … but that is not the best stat in the world, because sometimes lots of people put up the same song, and the hits get spread around. Then some get taken off “the tube”…

    With a wider audience, more videos get made, and the hits get spread around.

    Read More
  187. @Clyde
    Women do not innovate. They prefer weaving within the loom of hierarchies of male status and male created tech and industry/ But they can create a new life, which men are in awe of. So the balance of power is equal.

    So the balance of power is equal.

    Inherently, it is, but only in a conservative society. This matriarchy we have now makes most men pretty powerless and puts them at big risk, especially wrt marriage.

    As to your other reply, you jogged my memory about that “shout-out” business. Yeah, a dozen soldiers murdered on base by a Moslem wasn’t really in the front of his mind (as in he didn’t give a crap). I like your term Jamoke! To be a little more PC though, that’s Native American Jamoke to you sir!

    Read More
    • Replies: @Clyde
    I am trying to revive use of the word "jamoke"..... from the Frank Sinatra era.

    As you said...spaced cowboy Obama did not give a crap about the 14 soldiers just killed by the Muslim. I must see if youtube has it ----- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aYldhOp1p34 Obama rambling on

  188. Clyde says:
    @Achmed E. Newman

    So the balance of power is equal.
     
    Inherently, it is, but only in a conservative society. This matriarchy we have now makes most men pretty powerless and puts them at big risk, especially wrt marriage.

    As to your other reply, you jogged my memory about that "shout-out" business. Yeah, a dozen soldiers murdered on base by a Moslem wasn't really in the front of his mind (as in he didn't give a crap). I like your term Jamoke! To be a little more PC though, that's Native American Jamoke to you sir!

    I am trying to revive use of the word “jamoke”….. from the Frank Sinatra era.

    As you said…spaced cowboy Obama did not give a crap about the 14 soldiers just killed by the Muslim. I must see if youtube has it —– https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aYldhOp1p34 Obama rambling on

    Read More
  189. bartok says:
    @AnotherDad

    Congratulations to Serena and her fiance Alexis Ohanian, Reddit co-founder, on their first child.
     
    Congrats to them as well.

    Still ... you're a white guy, a successful internet entreprenuer, tall, not obviously ugly ... and you're marrying a few years older, mid-30s-ish, black woman who is built like a tank?

    I realize white girls are--relative to early times--no prize right now, but there are still a lot of delicious ones out there. What the heck is going on in some of these guys brains!

    Ohanian is Armenian, like the Kardashians..
    Jews have an affinity for blacks for several reasons, one being that Jews feel greatly repressed when interacting with Whites. That’s why they accuse Gentiles of being repressed, because we Whites make them feel repressed. h/t Steve Sailer on projection.

    Read More
  190. Why is it that men tend to be obsessed by virtuoso electric guitar players yet most women could care less? Just finished watching a pair of Stevie Ray Vaughn documentaries on Amazon Prime and I’m still amazed at his skill. I never heard a women even come close to playing like him or Jimmy Page, David Gilmore, Eric Clapton……….

    Read More
    • Replies: @Authenticjazzman
    " I never heard a woman even come close to playing like him or Jimmy page, David Gilmore, Eric Clapton"

    Well first of all there are and have been many women who could or would have played circles around these guys, Eric Clapton as guitarist is a joke compared to the multitudes of competent jazz players, male and female.

    There are women ( jazz) guitarists today who would make Jimmy Page or David Gilmore look silly in a Jam session.

    You are apparently unaware of the monumental difference between jazz players and rock players, sort of like the difference between O Wilde and Coates.

    Authenticjazzman "Mensa" qualified since 1973, airborne trained US Army Vet, and pro Jazz musician.

  191. @George Taylor
    Why is it that men tend to be obsessed by virtuoso electric guitar players yet most women could care less? Just finished watching a pair of Stevie Ray Vaughn documentaries on Amazon Prime and I'm still amazed at his skill. I never heard a women even come close to playing like him or Jimmy Page, David Gilmore, Eric Clapton..........

    ” I never heard a woman even come close to playing like him or Jimmy page, David Gilmore, Eric Clapton”

    Well first of all there are and have been many women who could or would have played circles around these guys, Eric Clapton as guitarist is a joke compared to the multitudes of competent jazz players, male and female.

    There are women ( jazz) guitarists today who would make Jimmy Page or David Gilmore look silly in a Jam session.

    You are apparently unaware of the monumental difference between jazz players and rock players, sort of like the difference between O Wilde and Coates.

    Authenticjazzman “Mensa” qualified since 1973, airborne trained US Army Vet, and pro Jazz musician.

    Read More
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A simple remedy for income stagnation
Confederate Flag Day, State Capitol, Raleigh, N.C. -- March 3, 2007
The major media overlooked Communist spies and Madoff’s fraud. What are they missing today?
Are elite university admissions based on meritocracy and diversity as claimed?
The evidence is clear — but often ignored