The Unz Review - Mobile
A Collection of Interesting, Important, and Controversial Perspectives Largely Excluded from the American Mainstream Media
 TeasersiSteve Blog
"What Is the Distribution of Hindu Castes Among Google Employees?"
🔊 Listen RSS
Email This Page to Someone

 Remember My Information



=>

Bookmark Toggle AllToCAdd to LibraryRemove from Library • BShow CommentNext New CommentNext New Reply
Search Text Case Sensitive  Exact Words  Include Comments
List of Bookmarks

From commenter Eagle Eye:

What is the distribution of Hindu castes among Google employees?

Is Pichai himself an “Untouchable”?

What percentage of Google staff are Shudra (lowest caste)? How many “Googlers” come from “Scheduled Castes” or “Scheduled Tribes” (i.e. underclass groups)?

Do higher-caste Indian women at Google date lower-caste men?

Do Untouchables at Google mix smoothly with senior management?

Does anyone keep track of caste? Why not? Are there lists secretly passed around to keep out caste impostors? (“She is actually only an X from Y state.”)

What about Korean baekjeong at Google?

Let’s have a data-driven conversation with Pich

It is striking how there is virtually zero interest in America in the topic of caste discrimination, even as the number of Indians in important places grows. It suggests, once more, that Current Year obsessions aren’t really about Battling Bigotry in general, but instead are about Getting Whitey in particular.

 
Hide 156 CommentsLeave a Comment
Commenters to Ignore...to FollowEndorsed Only
    []
  1. It suggests, once more, that Current Year obsessions aren’t really about Battling Bigotry in general, but instead are about Getting Whitey in particular.

    Based

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
    AgreeDisagreeLOLTroll
    These buttons register your public Agreement, Disagreement, Troll, or LOL with the selected comment. They are ONLY available to recent, frequent commenters who have saved their Name+Email using the 'Remember My Information' checkbox, and may also ONLY be used once per hour.
    Ignore Commenter Follow Commenter
    Sharing Comment via Twitter
    /isteve/what-is-the-distribution-of-hindu-castes-among-google-employees/#comment-1965315
    More... This Commenter Display All Comments
  2. Sunbeam says:

    “What about Korean baekjeong at Google?”

    WTF? Never heard of it.

    Come on. Say 7 billion humans. LOTS of cultures. LOTS of history.

    Indian castes are a pretty famous concept, in the anglosphere, at least.

    But it seems to me it is pretty reasonable not to have ever heard of that term. If someone wants to use that as an example they ought to explain what the heck it is.

    And no, I’m not googling it.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Cloud of Probable Matricide
    Baekjeong were the Korean equivalent of the pariah during the Joseon Dynasty. They had so-called lowly jobs like tanners and butchers and others who worked with animal products. I think also traditional pan-sori singers and gi-Saeng (geisha) were so stigmatized. They are also associated with eight or nine family names. The Japanese have the same concept which is much more well-known to outsiders, but I can't recall the name.

    But you are quite right that there is no reason for you to know any of this. Inside Korean baseball ( ya-gu).
    , @JamesG
    I don't google any more.

    I Bing.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  3. Kaz says:

    As an American guy of Indian/Pakistani ethnicity that’s worked in a consulting company with a lot of FOBs, H1Bs, offshore teams from India etc..

    I’ve never heard of caste discussed once..Within my family and dealing with other South-Asian people , growing up I’ve never heard of the caste system.

    Comments about fair skin definitely.

    The only weird Indian race stuff people around me would speak of would be Patans (Pashtuns), though that’s probably just a Pakistani thing.

    I can speak and understand Hindi/Urdu fairly fluently, so it’s not like they can discuss it in secret behind my back.

    The only time I’ve heard about the caste system is on the internet and books. From what I can gather it seems to be a village/small-town politics thing. How could you even keep track of such a thing in a country of a billion people..

    Read More
    • Replies: @Feeeney
    So is it Indian American or Pakistani American or both. Indian Muslim? And what caste is your family? Might help us to interpret your comment.
    , @TelfoedJohn
    http://www.thenewsminute.com/article/how-does-india’s-caste-system-work-21st-century-quora-user-hits-bull’s-eye-35962
    , @Eagle Eye
    OK Kaz,

    I can actually believe that caste was not explicitly discussed around you, although you may have missed some hints that would be considered obvious by those "in the know." Think if how the term "confirmed bachelor" was used in the past to hint that a man is gay. May I suggest a little empirical survey?

    I hope your parents are well. Next time you see them, take them aside separately and ask them one easy, one medium and one hard question:

    EASY QUESTION: Tell me about the cast system among Hindus. How have you personally experienced it in Pakistan, India and here in the U.S.?

    MEDIUM-HARD QUESTION: Are there remnants of a cast system among Muslims in Pakistan, India and Bangladesh? (NOTE: Christian churches in India often discuss problems with caste discrimination among their members.)

    HARD QUESTION: What caste are we? (Many Muslims in Greater India are quite aware of the caste they were before they converted to Islam, but this may be less true in Pakistan than, e.g. Bangladesh.)
    , @Anon
    Mexicans pretend they are all one people, but it's lighter at the top.
    , @englishmike

    I can speak and understand Hindi/Urdu fairly fluently, so it’s not like they can discuss it in secret behind my back.
     
    If they were to discuss it in secret and behind your back it is irrelevant how well you can understand the language they use, unless you suppose that in English "behind my back" means literally "where I can hear them".

    And, Kaz, I don't mean to poke my nose into a private matter; but I wonder why, in one of your other replies, you explain that your parents are Muslim without letting on whether you are too.

    I do hope that doesn't sound like an "islamophobic" comment.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  4. Lot says:

    Indians mostly don’t date, they go to prostitutes, go incel, or arranged marriages.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter Display All Comments
  5. Boudicca says:

    An interesting contradiction vis a vis Progressives and India:

    Progressive propagandist Doug Saunders wrote of “the residential school archipelago” – an obvious allusion to Solzhenitsyn’s Gulag Archipelago. Even “modern Canada” and “current Canadians are accused of a crime as serious as genocide under international law.” Saunders asserts there is a “functional similarity” between Canada and the Ottoman Empire’s genocide of the Armenians and the Holodomor.

    India’s 80 million Aboriginal people often live in bad conditions, generally far worse than those experienced in Canada. The primary method to deal with Aboriginal poverty and disenfranchisement is through “residential institutes” including the Kalinga Institute of Social Sciences “World’s largest residential school for Indigenous children.” “A total transformation of the tribal children and a revolutionary endeavour”. This program has the backing of the United Nations.

    Article on Indian slumlords:

    http://vancouversun.com/news/local-news/they-thought-i-was-going-to-back-down-and-leave-dtes-tenants-court-case-shines-light-on-practices-of-sahota-landlords

    Read More
    • Replies: @Eagle Eye

    Kalinga Institute of Social Sciences “World’s largest residential school for Indigenous children.”
     
    Name sounds creepy. Could be India's attempt to improve on the U.S. and Canadian residential schools, Catholic orphanages in Western Australia, and Kincora Boys' Home in the UK.

    http://www.thedailybeast.com/how-thatchers-mi5-spy-chief-protected-a-pedophile-member-of-parliament
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  6. epebble says:

    This is from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socio_Economic_and_Caste_Census_2011

    Obviously, it doesn’t tell anything about U.S. , much less Google, since there is no corresponding census. But common sense would suggest there would be a predominance of higher castes since most of the immigration from India is employment based (initial anchor immigrant); Since, the family unification immigrants would be based on the original immigrant, it will be mostly from similar demographic. Google probably selects from above 95+ percentile on the bell curve for the tech jobs which would probably imply a similar 95+% share of higher castes.

    Distribution of Population of each Religion by Caste Categories
    Religion/Caste SCs STs OBCs General class/Others
    Hinduism 22.2% 9% 42.8% 26%
    Islam 0.8% 0.5% 39.2% 59.5%
    Christianity 9.0% 32.8% 24.8% 33.3%
    Sikhism 30.7% 0.9% 22.4% 46.1%
    Jainism 0.0% 2.6% 3.0% 94.3%
    Buddhism 89.5% 7.4% 0.4% 2.7%
    Zoroastrianism 0.0% 15.9% 13.7% 70.4%
    Others 2.6% 82.5% 6.25 8.7%
    Total 19.7% 8.5% 41.1% 30.8%

    Read More
    • Replies: @Eagle Eye
    Interesting stats - thanks.

    A little suspicious that 15.9% of Parsees ("Zoroastrians") are shown as belonging to "scheduled tribes."
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  7. MG says:

    Most Indians in American tech companies are drawn from the higher castes (Brahmins, Kayasthas, Banias). That is because back home these communities emphasize academic achievement and they have historically had an advantage over other communities.

    Having worked in Silicon Valley and interacted with fellow Indians, caste seldom enters into professional or social interaction. (I’m generalizing, of course.) Most Indians in America are drawn from urban areas where caste dynamics are diminishing by the day. Where caste still plays a major role is in marriage. I have many issues with Indians in the Valley but caste discrimination in the workplace ain’t one of them.

    Read More
    • Replies: @johan
    If caste plays a major role in Marriage, which basically means who you have children with, than that is the most important example of discrimination you can think of because ultimately that is the only thing that matters to racial or ethnical groups in the long run because their very continued existence depends on that discrimination taking place.
    , @Autochthon
    If they bathed, that'd be huge progress.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  8. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer

    Aren’t the high tech immigrants all Brahmin?

    Read More
    • Replies: @rec1man
    No, just about 30% of hi-tech immigrants are brahmin ,vs 5% brahmins in India
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  9. Ron Unz says:

    I remember back (I think) in the late 1990s, there was a huge push by Hindu activists in California to get the State Legislature to censor all the public school textbooks by excluding the mention of caste. They claimed that “caste” didn’t really exist in traditional Hindu society, and was merely an invention of vicious white Europeans to make Hindus look “racist.”

    Initially, they got lots of traction in the MSM, and except for a few academic scholars who (very gingerly) took issue with those claims, almost no one was willing to stand up for the existing textbooks. Various politicians endorsed the purging the discussion of caste from all public school classrooms. It really looked to me like the “caste” would soon join a long list of other notions in the “forbidden” category.

    But then a group of low-caste Hindu activists got organized, and they denounced the effort as a racist plot by high-caste Hindus to hide their vile casteism by writing its existence out of history. Instead, they demanded that the public school curriculum increase its coverage of Hindu caste politics.

    Soon all the MSM stories were filled with shrill back-and-forth denunciations by two groups of immigrant foreigners with unpronounceably long names, and the drive in the State Legislature to rewrite historical reality eventually faltered and died.

    Read More
    • Replies: @MG
    Strictly speaking there's no such thing as "castes." That terminology was introduced by the Portuguese. The Indian taxonomic terms are "jati" and "varna." There's a great deal of misunderstanding and ignorance in the West on the topic.
    , @Dave Pinsen
    While they were at it, they should have added a discussion of class in all the origin countries of California's largest immigrant groups.
    , @Buzz Mohawk
    I remember when there was a huge push to convince everyone that all white people came from the same, privileged class...
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  10. Feeeney says:
    @Kaz
    As an American guy of Indian/Pakistani ethnicity that's worked in a consulting company with a lot of FOBs, H1Bs, offshore teams from India etc..

    I've never heard of caste discussed once..Within my family and dealing with other South-Asian people , growing up I've never heard of the caste system.

    Comments about fair skin definitely.

    The only weird Indian race stuff people around me would speak of would be Patans (Pashtuns), though that's probably just a Pakistani thing.

    I can speak and understand Hindi/Urdu fairly fluently, so it's not like they can discuss it in secret behind my back.

    The only time I've heard about the caste system is on the internet and books. From what I can gather it seems to be a village/small-town politics thing. How could you even keep track of such a thing in a country of a billion people..

    So is it Indian American or Pakistani American or both. Indian Muslim? And what caste is your family? Might help us to interpret your comment.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Kaz
    To keep things simple lets just go with Pakistani. My parents are muslim.

    As far as caste, like I said I have no idea, never heard it discussed in person once.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  11. Anon7 says:

    Pichai is a Tamil Brahmin, as was the extraordinary mathematician Srinivasa Ramanujan. In the 1990′s, when I started working with the start of the flood of Indian engineering consultants to American companies, they were all members of the Brahmin cast. About 2 percent of Tamils are Brahmin, the highest caste. And yes, they were all bright.

    I’ve read recently that there is some concern that if our immigration policy favors high IQ Asians, who have average IQs higher than “legacy” American stock, that we’ll wind up with a situation in which white people and others will wind up working for Asians. Here’s some over-the-top Indian thinking, if you’re interested. Some of the concepts might sound familiar:

    Of all the ridiculous lies that the pro Dalit [untouchable, lowest caste] Media has foisted on the gullible on the Brahmanish world is the whopper that each of the world’s races are exactly equal in temperament and ability, and that if Brahmanical dominance of the social structure were to be dismantled, the so-called “oppressed” races would automatically rise to the occasion and astound the world with their creative genius and high moral and spiritual character.

    Unfortunately, ever since the end of the nineteen thirties, it has been considered un-cool in “proper” society to express either privately or publicly any other view of human racial physiology than the egalitarian concept, first promulgated in India by Pro Dalit Socialists and their Sudras disciples. Thus began a period from the early nineteen forties until the present time, that can best be described as the “Age of the Egalitarian Lie” Everything in the natural world decrees that a natural hierarchy is nature’s first law, and that the “Survival of the Fittest”, natures mandate. We fail to heed these laws at our own peril…

    We must not allow the big Pro Dalit lie of egalitarianism persist unchallenged, comrades. Out of this one big lie, ALL of the other lies spring forth. When it is again widely understood by our “dumbed down” Brahmanical brethren that biological race is real, and not merely a “social construct”, the natural assertiveness and manliness of our Great Brahmanical Race will again come into play, and a New Era of Brahmanism and Asian World Dominance shall begin. We shall share Leadership of Planet Earth with the world’s other Great Race; the Northeastern Mongoloids. Then shall begin a “Brahmanish-Yellow” Alliance that shall usher in a bright new Era for all humanity, and carry the Planet into an Age of Progress, and Scientific and Spiritual Heights as yet undreamed of. BRAHMANISH ARYAN FOREVER!!!

    Read More
    • Replies: @Hyperborean
    Where did you find this? The first two paragraphs seem reasonable but then it lapsed into what seems to be the Indian version of Hollywood Nazism.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  12. epebble says:

    For general U.S. population, similar data is available at

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_ethnicity_in_the_United_States#Multiracial_Americans_and_admixture

    One statistic that stands out:

    Admixture in European-American population (Schriver et al. 2003, sample size n=187)
    % European Admixture Frequency
    90-100 68%
    80-89.9 22%
    70-79.9 8%
    60-69.9 < 1%
    50-59.9 < 1%
    40-49.9 < 1%
    0-39.9 0

    i.e. if one were to apply 10% filter (much more permissive than the "one-drop rule"), only 68% can be considered to be of European ancestry.

    Read More
    • Replies: @AnotherDad

    For general U.S. population, similar data is available at
     
    Epebble, this isn't "similar data" at all.

    American "whites" are actually quite "white". This

    i.e. if one were to apply 10% filter (much more permissive than the "one-drop rule"), only 68% can be considered to be of European ancestry.
     
    is such obvious bunkum I went and actually read the Wikipedia article.

    In a survey of college students who self-identified as 'white' in a northeastern U.S. university, genetic testing revealed that around 30% had less than 90% European ancestry. Through DNA analysis, the study found an average of 0.7% African genetic admixture with a standard error of 0.9%, and 3.2% Native American admixture with a standard error of 1.6%, in a sample of white Americans in State College, Pennsylvania. Most of the non-white admixture was concentrated in 30% of the sample, with African admixture ranging from 2 to 20%, with an average of 2.3%.
     
    --> Hardly a general survey (like the Indian survey) but a small survey at one northeastern university.

    --> Even among the "mixed" there is little African DNA

    Speculation--but i'd bet serious money i'm right--what's going on here is some combination of:
    -- heavily Jewish sample and Jews are tagged as being half "middle eastern" or "west Asian" (or something) rather than white; (my niece who is sandy haired and blue eyed and of very paleish hue would ergo be 25% "middle eastern" and ergo not "white" ... uh, no)
    -- generally wonky DNA test that throws off lots of components common in Europeans as "west Asian" or "middle eastern";
    -- white Hispanics--probably most of the Hispanic AAs at elite schools--identifying as white, but having 10-20% Amer-Indian DNA
    -- Italians, Greeks, etc. with a DNA test that calls them 10-30% "middle eastern" or something
    -- some Hapas identifying as white

    What is most certainly not true in the US is that there are a significant percentage of white people in the US who believe their ancestry is fully "white", but are actually not "white". This is just an argument about identification. Jews--and half Jews--know they are Jewish or part Jewish. Hispanics know they are Hispanic. Italians know they are Italian. Hapas know they are part Asian.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  13. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer

    And this is the F’ed up religion certain Anglo-Americans want to follow????

    Read More
    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    I listened to four songs yesterday from the Pretenders album that 65-year-old Chrissie Hynde released last year. Not bad for a senior citizen.

    I saw the Pretenders in April 1980 in Houston, a few feet in front of the bass player, who was dead the next year, along with their great guitarist James Honeyman-Scott.

    http://www.rockinhouston.com/images/00071-bn-12abg5nrtn0862jpg/9823?type=performers&subtype=Years&typeUnid=524&page=1

    I also listened yesterday for the first time to the lyrics fairly closely on the first side of the 1979 Pretenders debut album.

    It's really not a good thing to be a high testosterone heterosexual rock chick because you find yourself attracted to guys who are even more high testosterone than you, such as motorcycle gang felons (as in "Tattooed Love Boys").

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HjXnhT3jXM4

    Pretty interesting that Chrissie then went on to break up the marriage of Sir Ray Davies of the Kinks, as in his "Stop Your Sobbing" (the song that introduced me to the Pretenders in the summer of 1979),

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OGcn15ODltA

    whom I hadn't realized in the 1970s was straight. Sir Ray is kind of a literary genius in the manner of Evelyn Waugh and Stephen Spender.

    Their daughter is considered one of the more annoying activists in England (I forget what her causes are), but I'd cut her some slack considering how volatile her DNA must be.

    , @PiltdownMan

    And this is the F’ed up religion certain Anglo-Americans want to follow????
     
    As Dave Pinsen pointed out a couple of months ago, at least one celebrity child who went full Hare Krishna made some pretty good music—'60s Parent Trap child star Hayley Mills' son, Crispian Mills.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9QZOHzWLF9w

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2bYj2o7y4rk
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  14. MG says:
    @Ron Unz
    I remember back (I think) in the late 1990s, there was a huge push by Hindu activists in California to get the State Legislature to censor all the public school textbooks by excluding the mention of caste. They claimed that "caste" didn't really exist in traditional Hindu society, and was merely an invention of vicious white Europeans to make Hindus look "racist."

    Initially, they got lots of traction in the MSM, and except for a few academic scholars who (very gingerly) took issue with those claims, almost no one was willing to stand up for the existing textbooks. Various politicians endorsed the purging the discussion of caste from all public school classrooms. It really looked to me like the "caste" would soon join a long list of other notions in the "forbidden" category.

    But then a group of low-caste Hindu activists got organized, and they denounced the effort as a racist plot by high-caste Hindus to hide their vile casteism by writing its existence out of history. Instead, they demanded that the public school curriculum increase its coverage of Hindu caste politics.

    Soon all the MSM stories were filled with shrill back-and-forth denunciations by two groups of immigrant foreigners with unpronounceably long names, and the drive in the State Legislature to rewrite historical reality eventually faltered and died.

    Strictly speaking there’s no such thing as “castes.” That terminology was introduced by the Portuguese. The Indian taxonomic terms are “jati” and “varna.” There’s a great deal of misunderstanding and ignorance in the West on the topic.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Dave Pinsen
    Come on. The point is that India was (and still is, to some extent) incredibly stratified socially.
    , @anonymous

    There’s a great deal of misunderstanding and ignorance in the West on the topic.
     
    Isn't that what Indians want?
    , @J
    Varna=Skin colour
    , @Bill B.
    I find the comments from Indians here interesting and seemingly honest.

    But surely the key to Western culture has been a willingness to out-marry that started (with caveats) several centuries ago. It has been critical to the creation of the Western nation-state and to a willingness to look beyond tribe and clan. (The Hajnal Line etc..) Albeit of course these nations remained highly homogeneous in broad ethnic terms until very recently.

    Indians in the West may be urbane and modern in all sorts of ways but I will need some persuading that they are not in general deeply inward looking when it comes to circles of trust and partiality - at least by comparison with most white Westerners.

    To say - as some commentators here have - that Indians are cosmopolitan "except for marriage" is disingenuous when this is in fact critical and a predictor of who one will mentor and favour.

    The Times of India's marriage website - a little bit more complicated than you might expect!

    http://www.simplymarry.com/matrimony/nri-matrimonial
    , @AnotherDad

    There’s a great deal of misunderstanding and ignorance in the West on the topic.
     
    Well of course there's "ignorance", it's another culture.

    But the picture of "caste" in the West is basically accurate in the essentials. It's thousands of what were (there is some modern breakdown) endogamous groups in a stratified hierarchy. Feudalism--with serfdom and slavery--on steroids.

    And it is unique. The only things roughly akin to it in the West are the Jews and gypsies--endogamous communities that tightly policed against relations with the goyim to keep themselves separate. Most primitive societies have tribes or clans. But every other civilized society is highly mixed with significant gene flow across social classes. There is no other true caste society like India.

    Westerners who have learned about the caste system--sure they are "ignorant" about the details, but they get the essential picture.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  15. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer

    Is Pichai himself an “Untouchable”?

    Pichai Sundarrajan aka Sundar Pichai is a Tamil Brahmin of the Iyengar sub-caste; I belong to the other Tamil Brahmin sub caste, the Iyers.

    Traditionally, members of these two sub-castes do not intermarry, but these hard and fast rules have eroded in the last 50 years, especially in the modern urban workplace and in elite university environments in India, where young people from all castes are thrown together, and modern economy incomes make them largely independent of their parents wishes. However, the as yet less developed culture of dating in India means that many urban professional young men and women fall back on the age-old arranged marriage networks of their parents out of a sense of urgency, as they approach the age of thirty.

    Sundar Pichai’s wife is a North Indian, Rajasthani Brahmin who was his classmate in the Indian Institute of Technology. Again, a generation ago, the two would not have married, but their marriage is not unusual these days. It is not necessarily typical, either.

    Caste identity remains very strong in rural and pre-industrial settings in India. But caste identities have severely eroded in urban settings, and are absent in the modern Indian professional workplace. At the level of modern interpersonal interaction in the workplace, caste is quite hard to determine, absent the old markers of sub-caste based dialect, clothing, food and religious rituals. These tend to be not transmitted to the university-educated young, especially those who study away from home.

    Language identity still plays a part in some firms and may spill over into Indian circles in the workplace in your country. For instance, the gossip here is that the American H1-B programmer world is dominated by Telugu speakers, to the detriment of Tamil or Kannada speakers.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Opinionator
    Are "Tamils" Sri Lankan/from Sri Lanka?
    , @charlie
    The irony with Pichai is all this has happened before.

    Look at what happened in Tamil Nadu after they turned on the tamil brahmins.

    Or what happened with the scheduled castes and tribes in affirmative action.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  16. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer

    India has had two presidents from the untouchable caste, including the current one, who is a Hindu nationalist. The current Hindu nationalist prime minister is from one of the lowest castes. Several important state governors and supreme court judges gave also been from the lowest and untouchable castes. We have also had women as Prime minister and President.

    I’m no SJW and I’m sympathetic to Damore, but I think pichai did what he did because of the politically correct climate surrounding him.

    Anyway, you guys, with your penchant for assassinating foreigners across the world with drones, nuking random Japanese cities, hunting down and murdering racial minorities in the streets (google “indian grandfather killed by Alabama police”) are the last country that needs to be be giving us moral guidance.

    Read More
    • Replies: @epebble
    Also, I think the Indian constitution was written by a "low caste" person, Dr. Ambedkar.
    , @anonymous
    Hey fellow anonymous, glad to see you aboard. ;)

    Anyway, you guys, with your penchant for assassinating foreigners across the world with drones, nuking random Japanese cities, hunting down and murdering racial minorities in the streets (google “indian grandfather killed by Alabama police”) are the last country that needs to be be giving us moral guidance.
     
    Thank goodness you and Sundar Pichai are here to give us moral guidance. I get that, but what caste is he from? I still don't know.
    , @Coemgen

    Anyway, you guys, with your penchant for assassinating foreigners across the world with drones, nuking random Japanese cities, hunting down and murdering racial minorities in the streets (google “indian grandfather killed by Alabama police”) are the last country that needs to be be giving us moral guidance.
     
    What does that even mean?
    , @Anonymous

    Anyway, you guys, with your penchant for assassinating foreigners across the world with drones, nuking random Japanese cities, hunting down and murdering racial minorities in the streets (google “indian grandfather killed by Alabama police”) are the last country that needs to be be giving us moral guidance.
     
    So why the fsck do you keep coming here by the millions? The last thing we need are more whiny foreigners trying to get on the AA gravy train. With 625 million people back home who still aren't potty trained, your own people need you way more than us.
    , @Wilkey
    "Anyway, you guys, with your penchant for assassinating foreigners across the world with drones, nuking random Japanese cities, hunting down and murdering racial minorities in the streets (google “indian grandfather killed by Alabama police”) are the last country that needs to be be giving us moral guidance."

    I know, right? So sad that the people who got droned and the nation that got nuked weren't even doing anything to deserve getting droned or nuked. Had they been professional terrorists or invading, murdering, and raping their way across Asia I suppose it would have been a different story.
    , @AnotherDad

    Anyway, you guys, with your penchant for assassinating foreigners across the world with drones, nuking random Japanese cities, hunting down and murdering racial minorities in the streets (google “indian grandfather killed by Alabama police”) are the last country that needs to be be giving us moral guidance.
     
    Right. We American white guys really suck. Terrible people. And yet ... Indians keep bailing on India and flocking over her to sponge off what we've built. Hmm.
    , @AnotherDad

    Anyway, you guys, with your penchant for assassinating foreigners across the world with drones, nuking random Japanese cities, hunting down and murdering racial minorities in the streets (google “indian grandfather killed by Alabama police”) are the last country that needs to be be giving us moral guidance.
     
    BTW, the "nuking random Japanese cities" was park of a large process of rolling back "the Greater East Asian Co-Prosperity Sphere". Only a small portion of India was ever in Japanese control and handed over to Bose as a puppet state. But large portions of China, Vietnam and Philippines were fully part of the co-prosperity sphere. Generally reviews of the experience have not been positive.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  17. Kaz says:
    @Feeeney
    So is it Indian American or Pakistani American or both. Indian Muslim? And what caste is your family? Might help us to interpret your comment.

    To keep things simple lets just go with Pakistani. My parents are muslim.

    As far as caste, like I said I have no idea, never heard it discussed in person once.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Karl
    16 Kaz > To keep things simple lets just go with Pakistani


    When you were a kid, did your maid speak to you in Punjabi or Sindhi?

    PS: If your compatriots "back home" really don't want Christians around them... send them to us. Their religion is indigenous to our Land. Every year, the IDF issues 250-300 New Testaments (in Hebrew) to its Christian new-recruits.
    , @rec1man
    All muslims have caste,

    Ashraf = High caste converts and foreign
    Ajlaf = Low caste converts
    Razil = Untouchable converts

    Most upper class Punjabi muslims have same surname as hindu-sikh punjabis
    Gill, Tiwana = Jat
    Malik = Rajput
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  18. There is a lot of confusion going on about caste as shown in EagleEyes comment.

    There are two Sanskrit words that get translated as caste — varna and jati. Varna is the four-fold hierarchical classification mentioned in the Hindu scriptures: Priests, Warriors, Farmers/Merchants, and Laborers. Shudra is the fourth and lowest of these. Shudras are restricted in certain ritual ways. For instance they cannot learn the Vedas, enter the inner sancta of temples, wear the sacred thread etc.

    A Jati is an endogamous group with particular religious, dietary and social customs in common. Often (but not always) it will have a hereditary occupation. While ideologically it is a Hindu idea, in practice there are also Muslim, Christian, and Jain etc jatis. Jatis can be ranked hierarchically but the exact position can vary from region to region and even village to village.

    The thing is, varna doesn’t actually exist as a social concept anymore (in fact if it ever did.) except perhaps amongst the Brahmins (priests) who are a varna and (many) jatis. Because the center of gravity in Hinduism has shifted to the Puranas and Tantras etc. and hardly anyone practices the Vedic rituals in their original form, most jatis could be classified as Shudras but it would certainly not mean they were oppressed or “lower” in the social sense. E.g. the Patels of Gujarat, the Jats of the Punjab and Reddys of Andhra Pradesh are all jatis that do not wear the sacred thread or learn Vedas but are the socially and economically dominant groups of their areas. Conversely, Brahmins particularly the orthodox ones might have high social value but they tend to be quite poor because traditionally they lived off of royal patronage which doesn’t exist anymore in democratic India.

    The discrimination that you read about takes place at the jati level. The most well-known example is untouchability amongst the “Scheduled castes” as the Indian constitution calls them or Dalits as the politically correct term is now. The aboriginal “Scheduled Tribes” are often lumped in with them but I can tell you that where my family is from if you called a tribal a Dalit he would attempt to kill you on the spot for the grave insult to his honour. Another example is why there are so many Tamil Brahmins like Pichai and Khosla in the West. Back in the 50′s/60′s there was a virulent anti-Brahmin movement in Tamil Nadu and to lesser extent in other parts of South India instigated by socially middle ranking but economically powerful castes who rebranded themselves as Dravidians for historically dubious reasons.

    So if I can give some friendly advice, while it is surely satisfying to point out the hypocrisy of Pichai types, may I point out these “Dems are the real racists” type arguments are a tactical error because very few of you know enough to pull it of as EagleEye shows and more importantly the whole premise is wrong.

    A jati is nothing more than an extended family. (literally because of the endogamy and inbreeding.) it is right and proper to prefer ones own family and want to associate the most with ones own family.
    I went from SJWish to alt-right when I realized that White people are not insidiously plotting to keep me down trying to take care of their own extended families. It is right and proper for them to do so and not at all censurable. Sure bigotry can take place in the name of Whiteness just as it can in the name of caste (or Blackness, or Jewishness or…) but it should be taken on a case by case basis and not automatically assumed or treated as if hatred was the whole purpose of some kind of “system”

    Now I shall attempt to answer the questions,

    What is the distribution of Hindu castes among Google employees?

    What percentage of Google staff are Shudra (lowest caste)? How many “Googlers” come from “Scheduled Castes” or “Scheduled Tribes” (i.e. underclass groups)?

    It is probably tilted towards the upper castes simply because that’s where more of the intelligence and ability is as with Ashkenazis etc. However if anything there is probably more diversity than in India because there is more nepotism and other corruption there.

    Is Pichai himself an “Untouchable”?

    No he is a Tamil Brahmin.

    Do higher-caste Indian women at Google date lower-caste men?

    As another commentator wrote, most probably don’t date. A good number are probably married (and marriage is where caste considerations really come into play.) The ones that do, probably date indiscriminately including with non-Indians. Well, apart from the standard female types of discrimination of course.

    Do Untouchables at Google mix smoothly with senior management?

    Does anyone keep track of caste? Why not? Are there lists secretly passed around to keep out caste impostors? (“She is actually only an X from Y state.”)

    I doubt if the types at Google care very much. (Their mothers might.) Another thing you have to bear in mind is a lot of that kind of Indian grew up in big cities and went to English medium often Roman Catholic schools. So they imbibed a lot radical lefty notions before they even set foot over here.

    Read More
    • Replies: @JerryC
    Fascinating comment, thanks for the insight.
    , @JoeT55
    Nothing to see here, these are not the caste members you are looking for. Move along.
    , @Daniel Chieh
    My experience with Indians is that they told me that they still name children as per their caste, so there is still at least some awareness. Beyond that, though, is the general and overall sense of nepotism which is particularly pronounced when working with outsourced employees. A good employee would sacrifice his time to cover for others who were terrible because the others were "from my village" or something like that.
    , @TomSchmidt
    Thanks for the disambiguating comment.

    I went from SJWish to alt-right when I realized that White people are not insidiously plotting to keep me down trying to take care of their own extended families. It is right and proper for them to do so and not at all censurable.
     
    They're generally not trying to take care of their extended families... yet. This is the fascination with The Godfather movies: "never take sides against the family." At a time in the early 1970s when 1960s social changes were beginning to wreak havoc on the family structures of nuclear Northern and Western Europeans in America, the idea that a Southern European family would be so close-knit as to stand up against the government captured the popular fascination, and has never left it.

    I can see the honorable nature of clan/jati loyalty. If other groups don't leverage such connections, they will lose out.
    , @PV van der Byl
    Very illuminating comment, thanks.
    , @BB753
    Are Indians in the West creating new jatis? I mean, endogamous groups in tech, motel owners, retail, taxi drivers and so on, corresponding to Western professions.
    , @Eagle Eye

    There are two Sanskrit words that get translated as caste — varna and jati. Varna is the four-fold hierarchical classification mentioned in the Hindu scriptures: Priests, Warriors, Farmers/Merchants, and Laborers. Shudra is the fourth and lowest of these. Shudras are restricted in certain ritual ways. For instance they cannot learn the Vedas, enter the inner sancta of temples, wear the sacred thread etc.
     
    NOTICE SOMETHING? Detailed discussion of four varna, but no mention of "Untouchables" who are OUTSIDE the four varna, i.e. below Shudra.

    Untouchables can make up as much as HALF the population in some areas. They are not permitted to physically touch varna members, may be prohibited from drinking from the village well, etc.

    Of course, the varna members have not always so reticent when it comes to sexual relations with untouchable women. Religious cleansing rituals are available to restore the man's purity.

    , @Kevin C.

    A jati is nothing more than an extended family. (literally because of the endogamy and inbreeding.) it is right and proper to prefer ones own family and want to associate the most with ones own family.
     
    Associate with, perhaps, but not marry. Whereas the DNA evidence shows that jati have been mostly inbreeding for at least ~1500 years, possibly longer.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  19. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer

    It is striking how there is virtually zero interest in America in the topic of caste discrimination, even as the number of Indians in important places grows. It suggests, once more, that Current Year obsessions aren’t really about Battling Bigotry in general, but instead are about Getting Whitey in particular.

    No, it doesn’t. It suggests Americans, and really non-Indians in general, don’t distinguish among various Indians or care. They’re all the same to non-Indians.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter Display All Comments
  20. epebble says:
    @Anonymous
    India has had two presidents from the untouchable caste, including the current one, who is a Hindu nationalist. The current Hindu nationalist prime minister is from one of the lowest castes. Several important state governors and supreme court judges gave also been from the lowest and untouchable castes. We have also had women as Prime minister and President.

    I'm no SJW and I'm sympathetic to Damore, but I think pichai did what he did because of the politically correct climate surrounding him.

    Anyway, you guys, with your penchant for assassinating foreigners across the world with drones, nuking random Japanese cities, hunting down and murdering racial minorities in the streets (google "indian grandfather killed by Alabama police") are the last country that needs to be be giving us moral guidance.

    Also, I think the Indian constitution was written by a “low caste” person, Dr. Ambedkar.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  21. Dave Pinsen says: • Website
    @MG
    Strictly speaking there's no such thing as "castes." That terminology was introduced by the Portuguese. The Indian taxonomic terms are "jati" and "varna." There's a great deal of misunderstanding and ignorance in the West on the topic.

    Come on. The point is that India was (and still is, to some extent) incredibly stratified socially.

    Read More
    • Replies: @MG
    I didn't deny that. The point in baseball and cricket is for the bat to make contact with the ball. But they are quite different games.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  22. Dave Pinsen says: • Website
    @Ron Unz
    I remember back (I think) in the late 1990s, there was a huge push by Hindu activists in California to get the State Legislature to censor all the public school textbooks by excluding the mention of caste. They claimed that "caste" didn't really exist in traditional Hindu society, and was merely an invention of vicious white Europeans to make Hindus look "racist."

    Initially, they got lots of traction in the MSM, and except for a few academic scholars who (very gingerly) took issue with those claims, almost no one was willing to stand up for the existing textbooks. Various politicians endorsed the purging the discussion of caste from all public school classrooms. It really looked to me like the "caste" would soon join a long list of other notions in the "forbidden" category.

    But then a group of low-caste Hindu activists got organized, and they denounced the effort as a racist plot by high-caste Hindus to hide their vile casteism by writing its existence out of history. Instead, they demanded that the public school curriculum increase its coverage of Hindu caste politics.

    Soon all the MSM stories were filled with shrill back-and-forth denunciations by two groups of immigrant foreigners with unpronounceably long names, and the drive in the State Legislature to rewrite historical reality eventually faltered and died.

    While they were at it, they should have added a discussion of class in all the origin countries of California’s largest immigrant groups.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  23. googler says:

    Googler here. Long-time reader, first time writer.

    Sundar Pichai is really not a bad guy and not an SJW. He initially did not want to fire Damore, but as has now been publicly reported in Recode, full SJWs like Susan Wojcicki of Youtube (and other rank and filers) pushed the issue.

    Fundamentally there were no good options for Sundar. Had he not fired Damore, many of his senior managers would have walked out on him, and he might not have been able to continue as CEO. The PR pain of pissing off the right was less than the internal + PR pain of pissing off the left.

    And that’s the key thing to change — but not by attacking fundamentally apolitical people like Sundar. He’s an engineering CEO, not an SJW ringleader. The right needs to train its fire on the public SJWs like Mike Isaac (NYT), Farhad Manjoo (NYT), Hunter Walk, Susan Fowler, Liz Fong-Jones, and similar on Twitter. As much as they like to dish it out, these kinds of people are generally unused to getting blown up and personally attacked and reported on.

    Read More
    • Replies: @reiner Tor

    And that’s the key thing to change — but not by attacking fundamentally apolitical people like Sundar.
     
    Why not? We need to change the equation for him, too. If he lazily goes along the SJWs, he'll be attacked from the right.
    , @Jenner Ickham Errican

    And that’s the key thing to change — but not by attacking fundamentally apolitical people like Sundar. He’s an engineering CEO, not an SJW ringleader. The right needs to train its fire on the public SJWs …
     
    It’s not either/or. Presumed moderates or “normies” in power should be made to feel the fire. Until now all the heat has from the SJW left, because that’s who’s made the most noise. Thus institutions/companies begin to veer left in philosophy and practice.

    SJWs like the ones you mentioned aren’t going to be swayed by a barrage of alt-right attention; they like drama and will just double down (and yet still should be ridiculed). However, if powerful corporate shot-callers publicly and firmly tell the SJWs “Enough!” then the leftists will really be, as they always like to moan—“marginalized.”

    Of course this all assumes in the Google case that Pichai is as apolitical as you claim. Identity is a powerful thing. He’s Indian, from India, and may indeed carry unmentioned ‘baggage’ about race and nationality that naturally aligns him with SJW who/whom side-taking.
    , @Jack Hanson
    Lmao this guy
    , @jimmyriddle
    Liz Fong Jones belongs to two identity groups which are very overrepresented at Google and generally in tech - Asians and transsexuals.

    Xe could make Google more representative by leaving. But self-awareness isn't xir thing - eg xe thinks that choker hides xir adam's apple.
    , @TomSchmidt
    Really, Pontius Pilate was a good, just guy. If it weren't for the angry mob of Pharisees demanding Christ's death, he would have been happy to keep him alive. But he was faced with a conflict between the group and the law, and he chose the group.

    http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/12083c.htm

    His name will be forever covered with infamy because of the part which he took in this matter, though at the time it appeared to him of small importance.

    Pilate is a type of the worldly man, knowing the right and anxious to do it so far as it can be done without personal sacrifice of any kind, but yielding easily to pressure from those whose interest it is that he should act otherwise. He would gladly have acquitted Christ, and even made serious efforts in that direction, but gave way at once when his own position was threatened.
     
    , @res
    Thanks for the explanation. You do seem to be soft pedaling perhaps the best target(s) though: "full SJWs like Susan Wojcicki of Youtube (and other rank and filers) pushed the issue."
    , @Horrowshow

    Sundar Pichai is really not a bad guy and not an SJW.
     
    I'm sure you are right. But as others mention, he conforms to the SJWs and for this he must be opposed. The enormous hypocrisy must be pointed out, 95% of non-muslim south asians at google are brahmins (a category they are all well aware of, don't let anyone tell you otherwise), and they are what, 6% of the population pool? It is an active area of study how genetically distinct the indian castes are, but a couple thousand years of restricted intra-caste marriage means it's likely (like the ashkenazi).

    If we are enforcing equality of outcome, here is a good place to start. The point is not that we actually should seek such "equality" (heaven forbid), the point is that not one (american) SJW will expend an ounce of energy on this. That's how you know this is about hate-whitey, i.e. it's about power. The spectacle of a brahmin lecturing americans about equal outcome is beyond the pale, though it is also incredibly humorous.
    , @Eagle Eye

    Had [Pichai] not fired Damore, many of his senior managers would have walked out on him, and he might not have been able to continue as CEO.
     
    Right.

    All the courtiers who had clawed their way to the top would totally "walk out on" their CEO over a question of ideological principle at the drop of a hat.
    , @Dave Pinsen
    What Pichai could have done is assigned Damore to reeducation. Seconded him over to Google's diversity & inclusion team until Damore quit. That would have been the smarter move in hindsight. No martyrdom for quitters.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  24. MG says:
    @Dave Pinsen
    Come on. The point is that India was (and still is, to some extent) incredibly stratified socially.

    I didn’t deny that. The point in baseball and cricket is for the bat to make contact with the ball. But they are quite different games.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  25. anonymous says: • Website • Disclaimer
    @Anonymous
    India has had two presidents from the untouchable caste, including the current one, who is a Hindu nationalist. The current Hindu nationalist prime minister is from one of the lowest castes. Several important state governors and supreme court judges gave also been from the lowest and untouchable castes. We have also had women as Prime minister and President.

    I'm no SJW and I'm sympathetic to Damore, but I think pichai did what he did because of the politically correct climate surrounding him.

    Anyway, you guys, with your penchant for assassinating foreigners across the world with drones, nuking random Japanese cities, hunting down and murdering racial minorities in the streets (google "indian grandfather killed by Alabama police") are the last country that needs to be be giving us moral guidance.

    Hey fellow anonymous, glad to see you aboard. ;)

    Anyway, you guys, with your penchant for assassinating foreigners across the world with drones, nuking random Japanese cities, hunting down and murdering racial minorities in the streets (google “indian grandfather killed by Alabama police”) are the last country that needs to be be giving us moral guidance.

    Thank goodness you and Sundar Pichai are here to give us moral guidance. I get that, but what caste is he from? I still don’t know.

    Read More
    • Replies: @PiltdownMan

    I get that, but what caste is he from? I still don’t know.
     
    Comment #14 above and other comments...

    Pichai Sundarrajan aka Sundar Pichai is a Tamil Brahmin of the Iyengar sub-caste;
     
    , @PiltdownMan
    Everything you wanted to know about Sundar Pichai's caste:

    https://www.quora.com/I-read-in-a-lot-of-answers-that-Tamil-Brahmins-were-kicked-out-of-Tamil-Nadu-What-exactly-happened/answer/Marsha-Collins-1?srid=cGaJ

    , @Anonymous
    Pichai is very very likely to be from a Dalit i.e untouchable caste.

    Pichai in Tamil, his mother tongue, stands for "Beg".

    Sundar Pichai literally means "Sundar the Beggar".
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  26. As far as “get whitey” goes, that could be a motivation, but most anti-White discrimination harms Asians equally. They are just as likely to be excluded from jobs and universities.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter Display All Comments
  27. Coemgen says:
    @Anonymous
    India has had two presidents from the untouchable caste, including the current one, who is a Hindu nationalist. The current Hindu nationalist prime minister is from one of the lowest castes. Several important state governors and supreme court judges gave also been from the lowest and untouchable castes. We have also had women as Prime minister and President.

    I'm no SJW and I'm sympathetic to Damore, but I think pichai did what he did because of the politically correct climate surrounding him.

    Anyway, you guys, with your penchant for assassinating foreigners across the world with drones, nuking random Japanese cities, hunting down and murdering racial minorities in the streets (google "indian grandfather killed by Alabama police") are the last country that needs to be be giving us moral guidance.

    Anyway, you guys, with your penchant for assassinating foreigners across the world with drones, nuking random Japanese cities, hunting down and murdering racial minorities in the streets (google “indian grandfather killed by Alabama police”) are the last country that needs to be be giving us moral guidance.

    What does that even mean?

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  28. @googler
    Googler here. Long-time reader, first time writer.

    Sundar Pichai is really not a bad guy and not an SJW. He initially did not want to fire Damore, but as has now been publicly reported in Recode, full SJWs like Susan Wojcicki of Youtube (and other rank and filers) pushed the issue.

    Fundamentally there were no good options for Sundar. Had he not fired Damore, many of his senior managers would have walked out on him, and he might not have been able to continue as CEO. The PR pain of pissing off the right was less than the internal + PR pain of pissing off the left.

    And that's the key thing to change -- but not by attacking fundamentally apolitical people like Sundar. He's an engineering CEO, not an SJW ringleader. The right needs to train its fire on the public SJWs like Mike Isaac (NYT), Farhad Manjoo (NYT), Hunter Walk, Susan Fowler, Liz Fong-Jones, and similar on Twitter. As much as they like to dish it out, these kinds of people are generally unused to getting blown up and personally attacked and reported on.

    https://twitter.com/MikeIsaac/status/893935651996880896
    https://twitter.com/fmanjoo/status/894994257420763136
    https://twitter.com/hunterwalk/status/895794090419249152
    https://twitter.com/susanthesquark/status/896105887596658689
    https://twitter.com/lizthegrey/status/894534272199135233

    You can get a sense of what Sundar is/was dealing with internally here:
    http://voxday.blogspot.ca/2017/08/suppressing-dissent-at-google.html

    As the CEO he is of course the lightning rod, but you should point your guns at the real SJWs. The more pain that SJWs feel, the more they'll think twice about virtue signaling.

    PS: The really interesting thing is that Larry Page managed to hang back in the whole episode. Page is half-Jewish, like Mencius Moldbug, Patri Friedman, Yuri Slezkine, and some of the other most important truth tellers. A lot of the half-Jews in Silicon Valley combine the traditional Jewish intellect and verbal facility with a more genuinely meritocratic spirit. I can't see Larry Page signing off on a letter like Sundar wrote -- Page is very libertarian. Really amazing that he's managed to stay out of it so far.

    And that’s the key thing to change — but not by attacking fundamentally apolitical people like Sundar.

    Why not? We need to change the equation for him, too. If he lazily goes along the SJWs, he’ll be attacked from the right.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    Exactly. Force people like him to realize that there's no easy capitulation to the Left; consequences inbound no matter what. Next time, someone might stand for the Right instead - and get sacrificed, but hey, we've all more or less felt this before. Share the fucking pain.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  29. anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @MG
    Strictly speaking there's no such thing as "castes." That terminology was introduced by the Portuguese. The Indian taxonomic terms are "jati" and "varna." There's a great deal of misunderstanding and ignorance in the West on the topic.

    There’s a great deal of misunderstanding and ignorance in the West on the topic.

    Isn’t that what Indians want?

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  30. @Sunbeam
    "What about Korean baekjeong at Google?"

    WTF? Never heard of it.

    Come on. Say 7 billion humans. LOTS of cultures. LOTS of history.

    Indian castes are a pretty famous concept, in the anglosphere, at least.

    But it seems to me it is pretty reasonable not to have ever heard of that term. If someone wants to use that as an example they ought to explain what the heck it is.

    And no, I'm not googling it.

    Baekjeong were the Korean equivalent of the pariah during the Joseon Dynasty. They had so-called lowly jobs like tanners and butchers and others who worked with animal products. I think also traditional pan-sori singers and gi-Saeng (geisha) were so stigmatized. They are also associated with eight or nine family names. The Japanese have the same concept which is much more well-known to outsiders, but I can’t recall the name.

    But you are quite right that there is no reason for you to know any of this. Inside Korean baseball ( ya-gu).

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anatoly Karlin
    Burakumin is the Japanese version.

    They are massively overrepresented amongst the yakuza.
    , @Jus' Sayin'...
    IIRC, in the novel "Shogun", Japanese peasants were depicted using the term "eta" for those in shunned occupations like honey bucket men.
    , @Eagle Eye

    The Japanese have the same concept which is much more well-known to outsiders, but I can’t recall the name.
     
    Burakumin.

    As with all these traditional outcast groups in modernizing countries, there are quite a number of traditional pejorative terms, and there are various modern euphemisms.

    Belonging to one of these outcast groups can be very lucrative as they enjoy monopolies over certain occupations that are viewed as tainted, mostly to do with dead animals and human corpses.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  31. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @Anonymous
    India has had two presidents from the untouchable caste, including the current one, who is a Hindu nationalist. The current Hindu nationalist prime minister is from one of the lowest castes. Several important state governors and supreme court judges gave also been from the lowest and untouchable castes. We have also had women as Prime minister and President.

    I'm no SJW and I'm sympathetic to Damore, but I think pichai did what he did because of the politically correct climate surrounding him.

    Anyway, you guys, with your penchant for assassinating foreigners across the world with drones, nuking random Japanese cities, hunting down and murdering racial minorities in the streets (google "indian grandfather killed by Alabama police") are the last country that needs to be be giving us moral guidance.

    Anyway, you guys, with your penchant for assassinating foreigners across the world with drones, nuking random Japanese cities, hunting down and murdering racial minorities in the streets (google “indian grandfather killed by Alabama police”) are the last country that needs to be be giving us moral guidance.

    So why the fsck do you keep coming here by the millions? The last thing we need are more whiny foreigners trying to get on the AA gravy train. With 625 million people back home who still aren’t potty trained, your own people need you way more than us.

    Read More
    • Replies: @anonguy

    nuking random Japanese cities
     
    Nothing random about it at all, definitely all on purpose.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  32. @Kaz
    As an American guy of Indian/Pakistani ethnicity that's worked in a consulting company with a lot of FOBs, H1Bs, offshore teams from India etc..

    I've never heard of caste discussed once..Within my family and dealing with other South-Asian people , growing up I've never heard of the caste system.

    Comments about fair skin definitely.

    The only weird Indian race stuff people around me would speak of would be Patans (Pashtuns), though that's probably just a Pakistani thing.

    I can speak and understand Hindi/Urdu fairly fluently, so it's not like they can discuss it in secret behind my back.

    The only time I've heard about the caste system is on the internet and books. From what I can gather it seems to be a village/small-town politics thing. How could you even keep track of such a thing in a country of a billion people..

    http://www.thenewsminute.com/article/how-does-india’s-caste-system-work-21st-century-quora-user-hits-bull’s-eye-35962

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  33. @googler
    Googler here. Long-time reader, first time writer.

    Sundar Pichai is really not a bad guy and not an SJW. He initially did not want to fire Damore, but as has now been publicly reported in Recode, full SJWs like Susan Wojcicki of Youtube (and other rank and filers) pushed the issue.

    Fundamentally there were no good options for Sundar. Had he not fired Damore, many of his senior managers would have walked out on him, and he might not have been able to continue as CEO. The PR pain of pissing off the right was less than the internal + PR pain of pissing off the left.

    And that's the key thing to change -- but not by attacking fundamentally apolitical people like Sundar. He's an engineering CEO, not an SJW ringleader. The right needs to train its fire on the public SJWs like Mike Isaac (NYT), Farhad Manjoo (NYT), Hunter Walk, Susan Fowler, Liz Fong-Jones, and similar on Twitter. As much as they like to dish it out, these kinds of people are generally unused to getting blown up and personally attacked and reported on.

    https://twitter.com/MikeIsaac/status/893935651996880896
    https://twitter.com/fmanjoo/status/894994257420763136
    https://twitter.com/hunterwalk/status/895794090419249152
    https://twitter.com/susanthesquark/status/896105887596658689
    https://twitter.com/lizthegrey/status/894534272199135233

    You can get a sense of what Sundar is/was dealing with internally here:
    http://voxday.blogspot.ca/2017/08/suppressing-dissent-at-google.html

    As the CEO he is of course the lightning rod, but you should point your guns at the real SJWs. The more pain that SJWs feel, the more they'll think twice about virtue signaling.

    PS: The really interesting thing is that Larry Page managed to hang back in the whole episode. Page is half-Jewish, like Mencius Moldbug, Patri Friedman, Yuri Slezkine, and some of the other most important truth tellers. A lot of the half-Jews in Silicon Valley combine the traditional Jewish intellect and verbal facility with a more genuinely meritocratic spirit. I can't see Larry Page signing off on a letter like Sundar wrote -- Page is very libertarian. Really amazing that he's managed to stay out of it so far.

    And that’s the key thing to change — but not by attacking fundamentally apolitical people like Sundar. He’s an engineering CEO, not an SJW ringleader. The right needs to train its fire on the public SJWs …

    It’s not either/or. Presumed moderates or “normies” in power should be made to feel the fire. Until now all the heat has from the SJW left, because that’s who’s made the most noise. Thus institutions/companies begin to veer left in philosophy and practice.

    SJWs like the ones you mentioned aren’t going to be swayed by a barrage of alt-right attention; they like drama and will just double down (and yet still should be ridiculed). However, if powerful corporate shot-callers publicly and firmly tell the SJWs “Enough!” then the leftists will really be, as they always like to moan—“marginalized.”

    Of course this all assumes in the Google case that Pichai is as apolitical as you claim. Identity is a powerful thing. He’s Indian, from India, and may indeed carry unmentioned ‘baggage’ about race and nationality that naturally aligns him with SJW who/whom side-taking.

    Read More
    • Agree: reiner Tor
    • Replies: @Anon
    Pichai is a Tamil; they always resented the Hindi politicians in Delhi far more than they did the British.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  34. @Ron Unz
    I remember back (I think) in the late 1990s, there was a huge push by Hindu activists in California to get the State Legislature to censor all the public school textbooks by excluding the mention of caste. They claimed that "caste" didn't really exist in traditional Hindu society, and was merely an invention of vicious white Europeans to make Hindus look "racist."

    Initially, they got lots of traction in the MSM, and except for a few academic scholars who (very gingerly) took issue with those claims, almost no one was willing to stand up for the existing textbooks. Various politicians endorsed the purging the discussion of caste from all public school classrooms. It really looked to me like the "caste" would soon join a long list of other notions in the "forbidden" category.

    But then a group of low-caste Hindu activists got organized, and they denounced the effort as a racist plot by high-caste Hindus to hide their vile casteism by writing its existence out of history. Instead, they demanded that the public school curriculum increase its coverage of Hindu caste politics.

    Soon all the MSM stories were filled with shrill back-and-forth denunciations by two groups of immigrant foreigners with unpronounceably long names, and the drive in the State Legislature to rewrite historical reality eventually faltered and died.

    I remember when there was a huge push to convince everyone that all white people came from the same, privileged class…

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  35. Wilkey says:
    @Anonymous
    India has had two presidents from the untouchable caste, including the current one, who is a Hindu nationalist. The current Hindu nationalist prime minister is from one of the lowest castes. Several important state governors and supreme court judges gave also been from the lowest and untouchable castes. We have also had women as Prime minister and President.

    I'm no SJW and I'm sympathetic to Damore, but I think pichai did what he did because of the politically correct climate surrounding him.

    Anyway, you guys, with your penchant for assassinating foreigners across the world with drones, nuking random Japanese cities, hunting down and murdering racial minorities in the streets (google "indian grandfather killed by Alabama police") are the last country that needs to be be giving us moral guidance.

    “Anyway, you guys, with your penchant for assassinating foreigners across the world with drones, nuking random Japanese cities, hunting down and murdering racial minorities in the streets (google “indian grandfather killed by Alabama police”) are the last country that needs to be be giving us moral guidance.”

    I know, right? So sad that the people who got droned and the nation that got nuked weren’t even doing anything to deserve getting droned or nuked. Had they been professional terrorists or invading, murdering, and raping their way across Asia I suppose it would have been a different story.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Let's not forget your country was built upon invading, murdering and raping your way across North America. While your cousins did the same to South America.

    Again, I'm no SJW, but it irritates me when I see Westerners acting holier than thou. Your people were the single biggest mass murderers in history, far worse than the Mongols, Huns and Arabs. Deal with it. And stop yammering on about how unjust and evil other societies are, it's really creepy.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  36. But I thought the people who come to America from India are just tired, poor and yearning to be free, like this guy:

    http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/State-appeals-court-tells-billionaire-he-must-11749183.php

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter Display All Comments
  37. Wilkey says:

    “It is striking how there is virtually zero interest in America in the topic of caste discrimination, even as the number of Indians in important places grows. It suggests, once more, that Current Year obsessions aren’t really about Battling Bigotry in general, but instead are about Getting Whitey in particular.”

    White Americans are guilty of every sin that’s been committed by white people anywhere, ever. If you are a white American you are guilty of slavery. If you are a white American who just immigrated here from Italy 2 years ago you are still guilty of slavery. A white American whose ancestors served on the side of the Union? Still guilty. If you are a white American whose grandfathers and grand-uncles all served in the US military in WW2? You are still guilty of the Holocaust, because S.S. St Louis. Yoi are to blame for any white crime, no matter how distant, no matter if you or your ancestry hailed from the country where it even happened.

    Brown, yellow, and black immigrants are guilty of nothing. No matter how bad the situation in their home countries, the minute they step off that plane or cross the Rio Grande their sins are washed away.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter Display All Comments
  38. johan says:
    @MG
    Most Indians in American tech companies are drawn from the higher castes (Brahmins, Kayasthas, Banias). That is because back home these communities emphasize academic achievement and they have historically had an advantage over other communities.

    Having worked in Silicon Valley and interacted with fellow Indians, caste seldom enters into professional or social interaction. (I'm generalizing, of course.) Most Indians in America are drawn from urban areas where caste dynamics are diminishing by the day. Where caste still plays a major role is in marriage. I have many issues with Indians in the Valley but caste discrimination in the workplace ain't one of them.

    If caste plays a major role in Marriage, which basically means who you have children with, than that is the most important example of discrimination you can think of because ultimately that is the only thing that matters to racial or ethnical groups in the long run because their very continued existence depends on that discrimination taking place.

    Read More
    • Replies: @PiltdownMan

    If caste plays a major role in Marriage, which basically means who you have children with, than that is the most important example of discrimination you can think of because ultimately that is the only thing that matters to racial or ethnical groups in the long run because their very continued existence depends on that discrimination taking place.
     
    If a form of discrimination controls reproductive access to a particular, rather small, gene pool, rather than economic opportunity, does all the usual thinking about discrimination apply? The GNXP blog often made the point that India has about 3,000 strongly endogamous sub-caste groups, so we're talking about a highly fragmented socio-economic order rather than four massive caste groups that are arranged in hierarchical order, within each of which members may freely intermarry.

    As Steve said in another post a couple of weeks ago, India seems pretty complicated.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  39. @Cloud of Probable Matricide
    Baekjeong were the Korean equivalent of the pariah during the Joseon Dynasty. They had so-called lowly jobs like tanners and butchers and others who worked with animal products. I think also traditional pan-sori singers and gi-Saeng (geisha) were so stigmatized. They are also associated with eight or nine family names. The Japanese have the same concept which is much more well-known to outsiders, but I can't recall the name.

    But you are quite right that there is no reason for you to know any of this. Inside Korean baseball ( ya-gu).

    Burakumin is the Japanese version.

    They are massively overrepresented amongst the yakuza.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  40. I noticed that Indians are remarkably recalcitrant about discussing caste (at least with outsiders).

    In my experience many would reveal their caste if asked, but they would almost inevitably follow it up with some soothing statement to the effect that “it’s not a real issue anymore.”

    Read More
    • Replies: @Jack Hanson
    Amazingly that seems to be exactly what is happening here.

    Along with people who work for Google banging on about how the REAL enemy are people who they aren't employed by.
    , @NoFap_Newton
    Anatoly Karlin


    even among themselves they donot discuss it....whether a person is of a higher caste or not is determined at least in Northern Half of India by their skin colour (fair or not),sharp facial features (relatively), height,surname,clean clothes,better accent/vocabulary and finally manners. Caste as a topic NEVER enters the conversation in a higher caste household other than discussing how lower castes are stealing the seats of India's premier academic institutions and cushy low-stress high-paying Government jobs.

    I will not lie, I have been positively discriminated in India because of my 6ft+ height (184.5cm) and a skin colour that approximates 15 on the von Luschan Scale, and negatively discriminated against abroad by other Indians in academic circles....who tend to be more from Southern India and are darker and pudgy and also short height. (the last one debatable..but what I have seen is in Northern half of India, there is a over whelming majority of lower castes who are of very short height and a smattering of higher castes who are of decent height, compared to Southern India where everybody tend to crowd around the average height)


    Now regarding women:

    Indians who are generally above 5"10 (178cm) , have relatively sharper features and lighter skin,do basic weight lifting, have no problems pulling women of European descent or from other immigrant groups (my ex-gf was a of Northern Iranian origin).....This is why you see the men who have the most success with white women from the sub-continent are Sikh,Pakistani Punjabi,Pashtun and Kashmiri men (both Dogra and Muslims)


    Those sort of Indians pull in white women about as frequently as Middle Eastern,North-African,Turkish men.............

    This would mean they are nowhere as successful as the muscular tallish ones of the sub-saharan African men when it comes to pulling white women, but nowhere near as disastrous as South Indian men or East Asian men.

    The ones who do the best with women in Europe though are agnostic/atheistic Iranian men , as they can also gel into the alternative culture/music scenes of Europe seamlessly

    , @Anonymous
    And it's the truth. For the class of English educated rich people that you are likely to interact with in your day to day life, caste probably plays little or no role.
    , @StillCARealist
    The Indians I worked with were very competent and amiable. But say anything challenging to them about India and they get very defensive. They could also be insufferably arrogant. But lots of smart people are arrogant.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  41. Karl says:
    @Kaz
    To keep things simple lets just go with Pakistani. My parents are muslim.

    As far as caste, like I said I have no idea, never heard it discussed in person once.

    16 Kaz > To keep things simple lets just go with Pakistani

    When you were a kid, did your maid speak to you in Punjabi or Sindhi?

    PS: If your compatriots “back home” really don’t want Christians around them… send them to us. Their religion is indigenous to our Land. Every year, the IDF issues 250-300 New Testaments (in Hebrew) to its Christian new-recruits.

    Read More
    • Replies: @StillCARealist
    By "us" do you mean Israel or the US?
    , @LKM
    Why Hebrew? Aren't most Israeli Christians Arab-speaking?
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  42. JerryC says:
    @Dot Not Feather
    There is a lot of confusion going on about caste as shown in EagleEyes comment.

    There are two Sanskrit words that get translated as caste -- varna and jati. Varna is the four-fold hierarchical classification mentioned in the Hindu scriptures: Priests, Warriors, Farmers/Merchants, and Laborers. Shudra is the fourth and lowest of these. Shudras are restricted in certain ritual ways. For instance they cannot learn the Vedas, enter the inner sancta of temples, wear the sacred thread etc.

    A Jati is an endogamous group with particular religious, dietary and social customs in common. Often (but not always) it will have a hereditary occupation. While ideologically it is a Hindu idea, in practice there are also Muslim, Christian, and Jain etc jatis. Jatis can be ranked hierarchically but the exact position can vary from region to region and even village to village.

    The thing is, varna doesn't actually exist as a social concept anymore (in fact if it ever did.) except perhaps amongst the Brahmins (priests) who are a varna and (many) jatis. Because the center of gravity in Hinduism has shifted to the Puranas and Tantras etc. and hardly anyone practices the Vedic rituals in their original form, most jatis could be classified as Shudras but it would certainly not mean they were oppressed or "lower" in the social sense. E.g. the Patels of Gujarat, the Jats of the Punjab and Reddys of Andhra Pradesh are all jatis that do not wear the sacred thread or learn Vedas but are the socially and economically dominant groups of their areas. Conversely, Brahmins particularly the orthodox ones might have high social value but they tend to be quite poor because traditionally they lived off of royal patronage which doesn't exist anymore in democratic India.

    The discrimination that you read about takes place at the jati level. The most well-known example is untouchability amongst the "Scheduled castes" as the Indian constitution calls them or Dalits as the politically correct term is now. The aboriginal "Scheduled Tribes" are often lumped in with them but I can tell you that where my family is from if you called a tribal a Dalit he would attempt to kill you on the spot for the grave insult to his honour. Another example is why there are so many Tamil Brahmins like Pichai and Khosla in the West. Back in the 50's/60's there was a virulent anti-Brahmin movement in Tamil Nadu and to lesser extent in other parts of South India instigated by socially middle ranking but economically powerful castes who rebranded themselves as Dravidians for historically dubious reasons.

    So if I can give some friendly advice, while it is surely satisfying to point out the hypocrisy of Pichai types, may I point out these "Dems are the real racists" type arguments are a tactical error because very few of you know enough to pull it of as EagleEye shows and more importantly the whole premise is wrong.

    A jati is nothing more than an extended family. (literally because of the endogamy and inbreeding.) it is right and proper to prefer ones own family and want to associate the most with ones own family.
    I went from SJWish to alt-right when I realized that White people are not insidiously plotting to keep me down trying to take care of their own extended families. It is right and proper for them to do so and not at all censurable. Sure bigotry can take place in the name of Whiteness just as it can in the name of caste (or Blackness, or Jewishness or...) but it should be taken on a case by case basis and not automatically assumed or treated as if hatred was the whole purpose of some kind of "system"

    Now I shall attempt to answer the questions,


    What is the distribution of Hindu castes among Google employees?

    What percentage of Google staff are Shudra (lowest caste)? How many “Googlers” come from “Scheduled Castes” or “Scheduled Tribes” (i.e. underclass groups)?

     

    It is probably tilted towards the upper castes simply because that's where more of the intelligence and ability is as with Ashkenazis etc. However if anything there is probably more diversity than in India because there is more nepotism and other corruption there.


    Is Pichai himself an “Untouchable”?

     

    No he is a Tamil Brahmin.


    Do higher-caste Indian women at Google date lower-caste men?

     

    As another commentator wrote, most probably don't date. A good number are probably married (and marriage is where caste considerations really come into play.) The ones that do, probably date indiscriminately including with non-Indians. Well, apart from the standard female types of discrimination of course.


    Do Untouchables at Google mix smoothly with senior management?

    Does anyone keep track of caste? Why not? Are there lists secretly passed around to keep out caste impostors? (“She is actually only an X from Y state.”)
     

     I doubt if the types at Google care very much. (Their mothers might.) Another thing you have to bear in mind is a lot of that kind of Indian grew up in big cities and went to English medium often Roman Catholic schools. So they imbibed a lot radical lefty notions before they even set foot over here.

    Fascinating comment, thanks for the insight.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  43. @anonymous
    Hey fellow anonymous, glad to see you aboard. ;)

    Anyway, you guys, with your penchant for assassinating foreigners across the world with drones, nuking random Japanese cities, hunting down and murdering racial minorities in the streets (google “indian grandfather killed by Alabama police”) are the last country that needs to be be giving us moral guidance.
     
    Thank goodness you and Sundar Pichai are here to give us moral guidance. I get that, but what caste is he from? I still don't know.

    I get that, but what caste is he from? I still don’t know.

    Comment #14 above and other comments…

    Pichai Sundarrajan aka Sundar Pichai is a Tamil Brahmin of the Iyengar sub-caste;

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  44. @anonymous
    Hey fellow anonymous, glad to see you aboard. ;)

    Anyway, you guys, with your penchant for assassinating foreigners across the world with drones, nuking random Japanese cities, hunting down and murdering racial minorities in the streets (google “indian grandfather killed by Alabama police”) are the last country that needs to be be giving us moral guidance.
     
    Thank goodness you and Sundar Pichai are here to give us moral guidance. I get that, but what caste is he from? I still don't know.
    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  45. @johan
    If caste plays a major role in Marriage, which basically means who you have children with, than that is the most important example of discrimination you can think of because ultimately that is the only thing that matters to racial or ethnical groups in the long run because their very continued existence depends on that discrimination taking place.

    If caste plays a major role in Marriage, which basically means who you have children with, than that is the most important example of discrimination you can think of because ultimately that is the only thing that matters to racial or ethnical groups in the long run because their very continued existence depends on that discrimination taking place.

    If a form of discrimination controls reproductive access to a particular, rather small, gene pool, rather than economic opportunity, does all the usual thinking about discrimination apply? The GNXP blog often made the point that India has about 3,000 strongly endogamous sub-caste groups, so we’re talking about a highly fragmented socio-economic order rather than four massive caste groups that are arranged in hierarchical order, within each of which members may freely intermarry.

    As Steve said in another post a couple of weeks ago, India seems pretty complicated.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  46. JoeT55 says:
    @Dot Not Feather
    There is a lot of confusion going on about caste as shown in EagleEyes comment.

    There are two Sanskrit words that get translated as caste -- varna and jati. Varna is the four-fold hierarchical classification mentioned in the Hindu scriptures: Priests, Warriors, Farmers/Merchants, and Laborers. Shudra is the fourth and lowest of these. Shudras are restricted in certain ritual ways. For instance they cannot learn the Vedas, enter the inner sancta of temples, wear the sacred thread etc.

    A Jati is an endogamous group with particular religious, dietary and social customs in common. Often (but not always) it will have a hereditary occupation. While ideologically it is a Hindu idea, in practice there are also Muslim, Christian, and Jain etc jatis. Jatis can be ranked hierarchically but the exact position can vary from region to region and even village to village.

    The thing is, varna doesn't actually exist as a social concept anymore (in fact if it ever did.) except perhaps amongst the Brahmins (priests) who are a varna and (many) jatis. Because the center of gravity in Hinduism has shifted to the Puranas and Tantras etc. and hardly anyone practices the Vedic rituals in their original form, most jatis could be classified as Shudras but it would certainly not mean they were oppressed or "lower" in the social sense. E.g. the Patels of Gujarat, the Jats of the Punjab and Reddys of Andhra Pradesh are all jatis that do not wear the sacred thread or learn Vedas but are the socially and economically dominant groups of their areas. Conversely, Brahmins particularly the orthodox ones might have high social value but they tend to be quite poor because traditionally they lived off of royal patronage which doesn't exist anymore in democratic India.

    The discrimination that you read about takes place at the jati level. The most well-known example is untouchability amongst the "Scheduled castes" as the Indian constitution calls them or Dalits as the politically correct term is now. The aboriginal "Scheduled Tribes" are often lumped in with them but I can tell you that where my family is from if you called a tribal a Dalit he would attempt to kill you on the spot for the grave insult to his honour. Another example is why there are so many Tamil Brahmins like Pichai and Khosla in the West. Back in the 50's/60's there was a virulent anti-Brahmin movement in Tamil Nadu and to lesser extent in other parts of South India instigated by socially middle ranking but economically powerful castes who rebranded themselves as Dravidians for historically dubious reasons.

    So if I can give some friendly advice, while it is surely satisfying to point out the hypocrisy of Pichai types, may I point out these "Dems are the real racists" type arguments are a tactical error because very few of you know enough to pull it of as EagleEye shows and more importantly the whole premise is wrong.

    A jati is nothing more than an extended family. (literally because of the endogamy and inbreeding.) it is right and proper to prefer ones own family and want to associate the most with ones own family.
    I went from SJWish to alt-right when I realized that White people are not insidiously plotting to keep me down trying to take care of their own extended families. It is right and proper for them to do so and not at all censurable. Sure bigotry can take place in the name of Whiteness just as it can in the name of caste (or Blackness, or Jewishness or...) but it should be taken on a case by case basis and not automatically assumed or treated as if hatred was the whole purpose of some kind of "system"

    Now I shall attempt to answer the questions,


    What is the distribution of Hindu castes among Google employees?

    What percentage of Google staff are Shudra (lowest caste)? How many “Googlers” come from “Scheduled Castes” or “Scheduled Tribes” (i.e. underclass groups)?

     

    It is probably tilted towards the upper castes simply because that's where more of the intelligence and ability is as with Ashkenazis etc. However if anything there is probably more diversity than in India because there is more nepotism and other corruption there.


    Is Pichai himself an “Untouchable”?

     

    No he is a Tamil Brahmin.


    Do higher-caste Indian women at Google date lower-caste men?

     

    As another commentator wrote, most probably don't date. A good number are probably married (and marriage is where caste considerations really come into play.) The ones that do, probably date indiscriminately including with non-Indians. Well, apart from the standard female types of discrimination of course.


    Do Untouchables at Google mix smoothly with senior management?

    Does anyone keep track of caste? Why not? Are there lists secretly passed around to keep out caste impostors? (“She is actually only an X from Y state.”)
     

     I doubt if the types at Google care very much. (Their mothers might.) Another thing you have to bear in mind is a lot of that kind of Indian grew up in big cities and went to English medium often Roman Catholic schools. So they imbibed a lot radical lefty notions before they even set foot over here.

    Nothing to see here, these are not the caste members you are looking for. Move along.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Dot Not Feather
    Undoubtedly those Indians who swear caste doesn't exist anymore or is only rural protest too much but my point was that it won't do to look at the Rig Veda etc. to understand it as a social concept today. And yes the rank hypocrisy of those who benefit from it and complain when Whites allegedly discriminate is palpable but contra whataboutists on the right it is nothing abnormal. People should prefer their own however that is defined as they always have since our species began. All talents are not equally distributed. And all societies have hierarchies because of that. We all should be fighting to give White Americans the freedom to discuss and act in their own interests without fear of harassment or thinking there is something to feel guilty about.

    I was at a dinner party where people started moaning about Trump and I said " The first duty of White Americans is to look after their own many of whom are hurting badly right now. Because they are generous they probably will help the third world but you will have to get in line behind those who have a higher priority claim on that generosity than you."
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  47. @Anonymous
    And this is the F'ed up religion certain Anglo-Americans want to follow????
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=McDoo1m1OhY

    I listened to four songs yesterday from the Pretenders album that 65-year-old Chrissie Hynde released last year. Not bad for a senior citizen.

    I saw the Pretenders in April 1980 in Houston, a few feet in front of the bass player, who was dead the next year, along with their great guitarist James Honeyman-Scott.

    http://www.rockinhouston.com/images/00071-bn-12abg5nrtn0862jpg/9823?type=performers&subtype=Years&typeUnid=524&page=1

    I also listened yesterday for the first time to the lyrics fairly closely on the first side of the 1979 Pretenders debut album.

    It’s really not a good thing to be a high testosterone heterosexual rock chick because you find yourself attracted to guys who are even more high testosterone than you, such as motorcycle gang felons (as in “Tattooed Love Boys”).

    Pretty interesting that Chrissie then went on to break up the marriage of Sir Ray Davies of the Kinks, as in his “Stop Your Sobbing” (the song that introduced me to the Pretenders in the summer of 1979),

    whom I hadn’t realized in the 1970s was straight. Sir Ray is kind of a literary genius in the manner of Evelyn Waugh and Stephen Spender.

    Their daughter is considered one of the more annoying activists in England (I forget what her causes are), but I’d cut her some slack considering how volatile her DNA must be.

    Read More
    • Replies: @jimmyriddle
    Chrissie Hynde is a very annoying animal rights loon. She makes Morrissey seem quite reasonable in comparison.

    Animal rights nutters are the worst of the worst, but I can forgive these two because they both have incredible stage charisma and are both very non-PC.
    , @PiltdownMan

    I saw the Pretenders in April 1980 in Houston, a few feet in front of the bass player, who was dead the next year, along with their great guitarist James Honeyman-Scott.
     
    I saw them in December 1981 with the original line-up, so Pete Farndon and James Honeyman-Scott must have died a little after that—definitely early 1980s though. By that point, Brass in Pocket was probably just as big as Stop Your Sobbing. I had no idea until now that Nick Lowe produced the latter, though he was kinda ubiquitous back then.
    , @Anonymous
    She has two girls. The younger one (by Jim Kerr) was trying to be an actress but had twins recently so is now pretty busy with them. The older one is interesting to us because while she's a big enviro, she is also upset at immigrant misbehavior such as assaulting and raping women, chopping their daughters' fun parts off, et al and has said so-like Damore, always with lots of buffering foofoo-openly on several YT videos.

    She is a possible asset. She isn't stupid (her mother isn't either) but I can see her being a sort of Brenda Walker type. She is also a more attractive woman than her mother, for what that's worth.

    Apparently she has had emotional problems and talks obliquely of this in the videos.
    Perhaps mum made her take them down, but no matter, I've got them backed up....and several other people do too.
    , @Anonymous
    Stevie Nicks is 68 and Debbie Harry is 72 and both are better looking than Chrissie is now, but then they have both had work done. Christine McVie , not so much a great beauty but a great talent, is back in the news at 73 or 74 with her album with Lindsey Buckingham, and looks at least as young as Chrissie.

    I saw the Mark 1 Pretenders live in Indianapolis and it was a hell of a show. Jimmy was a superb guitar player. I saw them again somewhere in '84 when Chrissie was married to Kerr, Simple Minds was the opening act and she was pregnant with #2 although no one knew unless you picked up a reference to "my children" in her stage patter. It was the same songs (mostly) and the same style but the razor edge was gone. She is still unquestionably a fine rock and roll front woman but has and never will equal what the original band was. And she knows it.

    The other interesting aspect is that her guitar playing is very basic-just campfire cowboy chord strumming. Has not improved at all. By contrast, Madonna has gotten to be fairly good in the last few years, and she isn't even really a rock and roll performer as such.
    , @englishmike

    Their daughter is considered one of the more annoying activists in England (I forget what her causes are)
     
    Mainly environmental, I think. She got her name in The Guardian a few years ago when she was part of an anti-fracking protest.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  48. @Anonymous
    And this is the F'ed up religion certain Anglo-Americans want to follow????
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=McDoo1m1OhY

    And this is the F’ed up religion certain Anglo-Americans want to follow????

    As Dave Pinsen pointed out a couple of months ago, at least one celebrity child who went full Hare Krishna made some pretty good music—’60s Parent Trap child star Hayley Mills’ son, Crispian Mills.

    Read More
    • Replies: @jimmyriddle
    And the grandson of Sir John Mills:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ouYKeeTz7Yw
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  49. namae nanka says: • Website

    The irony is that back home Pichai would be in a similar position as a white male in American society, the general category male who has no quotas to turn to while the quotaed castes ride along merrily. The IITs have almost 50% quota for lower castes and by the look of things would have a 14% female quota next year. I’ve no doubt the latter would creep up soon enough.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reservation_policy_in_Indian_Institutes_of_Technology

    inb4 rec1man

    Read More
    • Replies: @PiltdownMan

    The irony is that back home Pichai would be in a similar position as a white male in American society,
     
    Er, what position is he in, in American society?
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  50. @googler
    Googler here. Long-time reader, first time writer.

    Sundar Pichai is really not a bad guy and not an SJW. He initially did not want to fire Damore, but as has now been publicly reported in Recode, full SJWs like Susan Wojcicki of Youtube (and other rank and filers) pushed the issue.

    Fundamentally there were no good options for Sundar. Had he not fired Damore, many of his senior managers would have walked out on him, and he might not have been able to continue as CEO. The PR pain of pissing off the right was less than the internal + PR pain of pissing off the left.

    And that's the key thing to change -- but not by attacking fundamentally apolitical people like Sundar. He's an engineering CEO, not an SJW ringleader. The right needs to train its fire on the public SJWs like Mike Isaac (NYT), Farhad Manjoo (NYT), Hunter Walk, Susan Fowler, Liz Fong-Jones, and similar on Twitter. As much as they like to dish it out, these kinds of people are generally unused to getting blown up and personally attacked and reported on.

    https://twitter.com/MikeIsaac/status/893935651996880896
    https://twitter.com/fmanjoo/status/894994257420763136
    https://twitter.com/hunterwalk/status/895794090419249152
    https://twitter.com/susanthesquark/status/896105887596658689
    https://twitter.com/lizthegrey/status/894534272199135233

    You can get a sense of what Sundar is/was dealing with internally here:
    http://voxday.blogspot.ca/2017/08/suppressing-dissent-at-google.html

    As the CEO he is of course the lightning rod, but you should point your guns at the real SJWs. The more pain that SJWs feel, the more they'll think twice about virtue signaling.

    PS: The really interesting thing is that Larry Page managed to hang back in the whole episode. Page is half-Jewish, like Mencius Moldbug, Patri Friedman, Yuri Slezkine, and some of the other most important truth tellers. A lot of the half-Jews in Silicon Valley combine the traditional Jewish intellect and verbal facility with a more genuinely meritocratic spirit. I can't see Larry Page signing off on a letter like Sundar wrote -- Page is very libertarian. Really amazing that he's managed to stay out of it so far.

    Lmao this guy

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  51. @Anatoly Karlin
    I noticed that Indians are remarkably recalcitrant about discussing caste (at least with outsiders).

    In my experience many would reveal their caste if asked, but they would almost inevitably follow it up with some soothing statement to the effect that "it's not a real issue anymore."

    Amazingly that seems to be exactly what is happening here.

    Along with people who work for Google banging on about how the REAL enemy are people who they aren’t employed by.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  52. @googler
    Googler here. Long-time reader, first time writer.

    Sundar Pichai is really not a bad guy and not an SJW. He initially did not want to fire Damore, but as has now been publicly reported in Recode, full SJWs like Susan Wojcicki of Youtube (and other rank and filers) pushed the issue.

    Fundamentally there were no good options for Sundar. Had he not fired Damore, many of his senior managers would have walked out on him, and he might not have been able to continue as CEO. The PR pain of pissing off the right was less than the internal + PR pain of pissing off the left.

    And that's the key thing to change -- but not by attacking fundamentally apolitical people like Sundar. He's an engineering CEO, not an SJW ringleader. The right needs to train its fire on the public SJWs like Mike Isaac (NYT), Farhad Manjoo (NYT), Hunter Walk, Susan Fowler, Liz Fong-Jones, and similar on Twitter. As much as they like to dish it out, these kinds of people are generally unused to getting blown up and personally attacked and reported on.

    https://twitter.com/MikeIsaac/status/893935651996880896
    https://twitter.com/fmanjoo/status/894994257420763136
    https://twitter.com/hunterwalk/status/895794090419249152
    https://twitter.com/susanthesquark/status/896105887596658689
    https://twitter.com/lizthegrey/status/894534272199135233

    You can get a sense of what Sundar is/was dealing with internally here:
    http://voxday.blogspot.ca/2017/08/suppressing-dissent-at-google.html

    As the CEO he is of course the lightning rod, but you should point your guns at the real SJWs. The more pain that SJWs feel, the more they'll think twice about virtue signaling.

    PS: The really interesting thing is that Larry Page managed to hang back in the whole episode. Page is half-Jewish, like Mencius Moldbug, Patri Friedman, Yuri Slezkine, and some of the other most important truth tellers. A lot of the half-Jews in Silicon Valley combine the traditional Jewish intellect and verbal facility with a more genuinely meritocratic spirit. I can't see Larry Page signing off on a letter like Sundar wrote -- Page is very libertarian. Really amazing that he's managed to stay out of it so far.

    Liz Fong Jones belongs to two identity groups which are very overrepresented at Google and generally in tech – Asians and transsexuals.

    Xe could make Google more representative by leaving. But self-awareness isn’t xir thing – eg xe thinks that choker hides xir adam’s apple.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  53. @Steve Sailer
    I listened to four songs yesterday from the Pretenders album that 65-year-old Chrissie Hynde released last year. Not bad for a senior citizen.

    I saw the Pretenders in April 1980 in Houston, a few feet in front of the bass player, who was dead the next year, along with their great guitarist James Honeyman-Scott.

    http://www.rockinhouston.com/images/00071-bn-12abg5nrtn0862jpg/9823?type=performers&subtype=Years&typeUnid=524&page=1

    I also listened yesterday for the first time to the lyrics fairly closely on the first side of the 1979 Pretenders debut album.

    It's really not a good thing to be a high testosterone heterosexual rock chick because you find yourself attracted to guys who are even more high testosterone than you, such as motorcycle gang felons (as in "Tattooed Love Boys").

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HjXnhT3jXM4

    Pretty interesting that Chrissie then went on to break up the marriage of Sir Ray Davies of the Kinks, as in his "Stop Your Sobbing" (the song that introduced me to the Pretenders in the summer of 1979),

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OGcn15ODltA

    whom I hadn't realized in the 1970s was straight. Sir Ray is kind of a literary genius in the manner of Evelyn Waugh and Stephen Spender.

    Their daughter is considered one of the more annoying activists in England (I forget what her causes are), but I'd cut her some slack considering how volatile her DNA must be.

    Chrissie Hynde is a very annoying animal rights loon. She makes Morrissey seem quite reasonable in comparison.

    Animal rights nutters are the worst of the worst, but I can forgive these two because they both have incredible stage charisma and are both very non-PC.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  54. @PiltdownMan

    And this is the F’ed up religion certain Anglo-Americans want to follow????
     
    As Dave Pinsen pointed out a couple of months ago, at least one celebrity child who went full Hare Krishna made some pretty good music—'60s Parent Trap child star Hayley Mills' son, Crispian Mills.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9QZOHzWLF9w

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2bYj2o7y4rk

    And the grandson of Sir John Mills:

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  55. @namae nanka
    The irony is that back home Pichai would be in a similar position as a white male in American society, the general category male who has no quotas to turn to while the quotaed castes ride along merrily. The IITs have almost 50% quota for lower castes and by the look of things would have a 14% female quota next year. I've no doubt the latter would creep up soon enough.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reservation_policy_in_Indian_Institutes_of_Technology

    inb4 rec1man

    The irony is that back home Pichai would be in a similar position as a white male in American society,

    Er, what position is he in, in American society?

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  56. @Steve Sailer
    I listened to four songs yesterday from the Pretenders album that 65-year-old Chrissie Hynde released last year. Not bad for a senior citizen.

    I saw the Pretenders in April 1980 in Houston, a few feet in front of the bass player, who was dead the next year, along with their great guitarist James Honeyman-Scott.

    http://www.rockinhouston.com/images/00071-bn-12abg5nrtn0862jpg/9823?type=performers&subtype=Years&typeUnid=524&page=1

    I also listened yesterday for the first time to the lyrics fairly closely on the first side of the 1979 Pretenders debut album.

    It's really not a good thing to be a high testosterone heterosexual rock chick because you find yourself attracted to guys who are even more high testosterone than you, such as motorcycle gang felons (as in "Tattooed Love Boys").

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HjXnhT3jXM4

    Pretty interesting that Chrissie then went on to break up the marriage of Sir Ray Davies of the Kinks, as in his "Stop Your Sobbing" (the song that introduced me to the Pretenders in the summer of 1979),

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OGcn15ODltA

    whom I hadn't realized in the 1970s was straight. Sir Ray is kind of a literary genius in the manner of Evelyn Waugh and Stephen Spender.

    Their daughter is considered one of the more annoying activists in England (I forget what her causes are), but I'd cut her some slack considering how volatile her DNA must be.

    I saw the Pretenders in April 1980 in Houston, a few feet in front of the bass player, who was dead the next year, along with their great guitarist James Honeyman-Scott.

    I saw them in December 1981 with the original line-up, so Pete Farndon and James Honeyman-Scott must have died a little after that—definitely early 1980s though. By that point, Brass in Pocket was probably just as big as Stop Your Sobbing. I had no idea until now that Nick Lowe produced the latter, though he was kinda ubiquitous back then.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  57. Anon says: • Disclaimer
    @Jenner Ickham Errican

    And that’s the key thing to change — but not by attacking fundamentally apolitical people like Sundar. He’s an engineering CEO, not an SJW ringleader. The right needs to train its fire on the public SJWs …
     
    It’s not either/or. Presumed moderates or “normies” in power should be made to feel the fire. Until now all the heat has from the SJW left, because that’s who’s made the most noise. Thus institutions/companies begin to veer left in philosophy and practice.

    SJWs like the ones you mentioned aren’t going to be swayed by a barrage of alt-right attention; they like drama and will just double down (and yet still should be ridiculed). However, if powerful corporate shot-callers publicly and firmly tell the SJWs “Enough!” then the leftists will really be, as they always like to moan—“marginalized.”

    Of course this all assumes in the Google case that Pichai is as apolitical as you claim. Identity is a powerful thing. He’s Indian, from India, and may indeed carry unmentioned ‘baggage’ about race and nationality that naturally aligns him with SJW who/whom side-taking.

    Pichai is a Tamil; they always resented the Hindi politicians in Delhi far more than they did the British.

    Read More
    • Replies: @J
    Iyer.
    , @rec1man
    2% of Tamil Speakers are Brahmins, who can be visually and genetically differentiated from the 98% Tamil Speaking dravidians

    Pichai is a Tamil Brahmin ; The Tamil Dravidians hate him and there is a 100% anti-brahmin quota in Tamil Nadu State - Pichai cant even get govt job as Math school teacher

    Tamil Brahmins were in the forefront of the anti-British movement vs Tamil dravidians who supported the british
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  58. @reiner Tor

    And that’s the key thing to change — but not by attacking fundamentally apolitical people like Sundar.
     
    Why not? We need to change the equation for him, too. If he lazily goes along the SJWs, he'll be attacked from the right.

    Exactly. Force people like him to realize that there’s no easy capitulation to the Left; consequences inbound no matter what. Next time, someone might stand for the Right instead – and get sacrificed, but hey, we’ve all more or less felt this before. Share the fucking pain.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  59. @Dot Not Feather
    There is a lot of confusion going on about caste as shown in EagleEyes comment.

    There are two Sanskrit words that get translated as caste -- varna and jati. Varna is the four-fold hierarchical classification mentioned in the Hindu scriptures: Priests, Warriors, Farmers/Merchants, and Laborers. Shudra is the fourth and lowest of these. Shudras are restricted in certain ritual ways. For instance they cannot learn the Vedas, enter the inner sancta of temples, wear the sacred thread etc.

    A Jati is an endogamous group with particular religious, dietary and social customs in common. Often (but not always) it will have a hereditary occupation. While ideologically it is a Hindu idea, in practice there are also Muslim, Christian, and Jain etc jatis. Jatis can be ranked hierarchically but the exact position can vary from region to region and even village to village.

    The thing is, varna doesn't actually exist as a social concept anymore (in fact if it ever did.) except perhaps amongst the Brahmins (priests) who are a varna and (many) jatis. Because the center of gravity in Hinduism has shifted to the Puranas and Tantras etc. and hardly anyone practices the Vedic rituals in their original form, most jatis could be classified as Shudras but it would certainly not mean they were oppressed or "lower" in the social sense. E.g. the Patels of Gujarat, the Jats of the Punjab and Reddys of Andhra Pradesh are all jatis that do not wear the sacred thread or learn Vedas but are the socially and economically dominant groups of their areas. Conversely, Brahmins particularly the orthodox ones might have high social value but they tend to be quite poor because traditionally they lived off of royal patronage which doesn't exist anymore in democratic India.

    The discrimination that you read about takes place at the jati level. The most well-known example is untouchability amongst the "Scheduled castes" as the Indian constitution calls them or Dalits as the politically correct term is now. The aboriginal "Scheduled Tribes" are often lumped in with them but I can tell you that where my family is from if you called a tribal a Dalit he would attempt to kill you on the spot for the grave insult to his honour. Another example is why there are so many Tamil Brahmins like Pichai and Khosla in the West. Back in the 50's/60's there was a virulent anti-Brahmin movement in Tamil Nadu and to lesser extent in other parts of South India instigated by socially middle ranking but economically powerful castes who rebranded themselves as Dravidians for historically dubious reasons.

    So if I can give some friendly advice, while it is surely satisfying to point out the hypocrisy of Pichai types, may I point out these "Dems are the real racists" type arguments are a tactical error because very few of you know enough to pull it of as EagleEye shows and more importantly the whole premise is wrong.

    A jati is nothing more than an extended family. (literally because of the endogamy and inbreeding.) it is right and proper to prefer ones own family and want to associate the most with ones own family.
    I went from SJWish to alt-right when I realized that White people are not insidiously plotting to keep me down trying to take care of their own extended families. It is right and proper for them to do so and not at all censurable. Sure bigotry can take place in the name of Whiteness just as it can in the name of caste (or Blackness, or Jewishness or...) but it should be taken on a case by case basis and not automatically assumed or treated as if hatred was the whole purpose of some kind of "system"

    Now I shall attempt to answer the questions,


    What is the distribution of Hindu castes among Google employees?

    What percentage of Google staff are Shudra (lowest caste)? How many “Googlers” come from “Scheduled Castes” or “Scheduled Tribes” (i.e. underclass groups)?

     

    It is probably tilted towards the upper castes simply because that's where more of the intelligence and ability is as with Ashkenazis etc. However if anything there is probably more diversity than in India because there is more nepotism and other corruption there.


    Is Pichai himself an “Untouchable”?

     

    No he is a Tamil Brahmin.


    Do higher-caste Indian women at Google date lower-caste men?

     

    As another commentator wrote, most probably don't date. A good number are probably married (and marriage is where caste considerations really come into play.) The ones that do, probably date indiscriminately including with non-Indians. Well, apart from the standard female types of discrimination of course.


    Do Untouchables at Google mix smoothly with senior management?

    Does anyone keep track of caste? Why not? Are there lists secretly passed around to keep out caste impostors? (“She is actually only an X from Y state.”)
     

     I doubt if the types at Google care very much. (Their mothers might.) Another thing you have to bear in mind is a lot of that kind of Indian grew up in big cities and went to English medium often Roman Catholic schools. So they imbibed a lot radical lefty notions before they even set foot over here.

    My experience with Indians is that they told me that they still name children as per their caste, so there is still at least some awareness. Beyond that, though, is the general and overall sense of nepotism which is particularly pronounced when working with outsourced employees. A good employee would sacrifice his time to cover for others who were terrible because the others were “from my village” or something like that.

    Read More
    • Replies: @rec1man
    For many castes, last name = caste name

    Patel = Patel Caste
    Reddy = Reddy Caste

    for many castes, there is a list of surnames to use
    Khatri merchant caste in Punjab has surnames = Kapoor, Chopra, Malhotra , Khanna,
    Nair Landlord caste in kerala has surnames = Nair, Menon, Pillai, Kurup , Nambiar

    For most hindus, the first name is a hindu god or goddess ; and for upper castes, the first name is very sanskritic

    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  60. J says:
    @MG
    Strictly speaking there's no such thing as "castes." That terminology was introduced by the Portuguese. The Indian taxonomic terms are "jati" and "varna." There's a great deal of misunderstanding and ignorance in the West on the topic.

    Varna=Skin colour

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  61. J says:
    @Anon
    Pichai is a Tamil; they always resented the Hindi politicians in Delhi far more than they did the British.

    Iyer.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  62. Every few years some libtard recycles the news that CEOs now make six zillion times as much money as their lowest paid worker when it was just 10x (or something) back in the good old days.

    So how come no one is doing this comparison to Mahatma Ghandi here and asking just how come he is worth $200 million a year.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter Display All Comments
  63. rec1man says:
    @Kaz
    To keep things simple lets just go with Pakistani. My parents are muslim.

    As far as caste, like I said I have no idea, never heard it discussed in person once.

    All muslims have caste,

    Ashraf = High caste converts and foreign
    Ajlaf = Low caste converts
    Razil = Untouchable converts

    Most upper class Punjabi muslims have same surname as hindu-sikh punjabis
    Gill, Tiwana = Jat
    Malik = Rajput

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  64. Bill B. says:
    @MG
    Strictly speaking there's no such thing as "castes." That terminology was introduced by the Portuguese. The Indian taxonomic terms are "jati" and "varna." There's a great deal of misunderstanding and ignorance in the West on the topic.

    I find the comments from Indians here interesting and seemingly honest.

    But surely the key to Western culture has been a willingness to out-marry that started (with caveats) several centuries ago. It has been critical to the creation of the Western nation-state and to a willingness to look beyond tribe and clan. (The Hajnal Line etc..) Albeit of course these nations remained highly homogeneous in broad ethnic terms until very recently.

    Indians in the West may be urbane and modern in all sorts of ways but I will need some persuading that they are not in general deeply inward looking when it comes to circles of trust and partiality – at least by comparison with most white Westerners.

    To say – as some commentators here have – that Indians are cosmopolitan “except for marriage” is disingenuous when this is in fact critical and a predictor of who one will mentor and favour.

    The Times of India’s marriage website – a little bit more complicated than you might expect!

    http://www.simplymarry.com/matrimony/nri-matrimonial

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  65. rec1man says:
    @Anon
    Pichai is a Tamil; they always resented the Hindi politicians in Delhi far more than they did the British.

    2% of Tamil Speakers are Brahmins, who can be visually and genetically differentiated from the 98% Tamil Speaking dravidians

    Pichai is a Tamil Brahmin ; The Tamil Dravidians hate him and there is a 100% anti-brahmin quota in Tamil Nadu State – Pichai cant even get govt job as Math school teacher

    Tamil Brahmins were in the forefront of the anti-British movement vs Tamil dravidians who supported the british

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  66. rec1man says:
    @Daniel Chieh
    My experience with Indians is that they told me that they still name children as per their caste, so there is still at least some awareness. Beyond that, though, is the general and overall sense of nepotism which is particularly pronounced when working with outsourced employees. A good employee would sacrifice his time to cover for others who were terrible because the others were "from my village" or something like that.

    For many castes, last name = caste name

    Patel = Patel Caste
    Reddy = Reddy Caste

    for many castes, there is a list of surnames to use
    Khatri merchant caste in Punjab has surnames = Kapoor, Chopra, Malhotra , Khanna,
    Nair Landlord caste in kerala has surnames = Nair, Menon, Pillai, Kurup , Nambiar

    For most hindus, the first name is a hindu god or goddess ; and for upper castes, the first name is very sanskritic

    Read More
    • Replies: @Eagle Eye

    For many castes, last name = caste name
     
    Interestingly, the Indian government (I think federal) has been working hard to suppress surnames that express caste (e.g. Iyer), e.g. by issuing personal status documents with these tell-tale signs omitted.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  67. rec1man says:

    What percentage of Google staff are Shudra (lowest caste)? = About 30% of Google Indians are Shudra caste, most Telugu speakers in google are Reddy, Naidu castes which are Shudra

    How many “Googlers” come from “Scheduled Castes” or “Scheduled Tribes” (i.e. underclass groups)? = possibly 2% of google Indians

    Do higher-caste Indian women at Google date lower-caste men? = Their families will tolerate a lower caste more than a black or a muslim, but even in urban India, 95% of marriages are within caste

    Do Untouchables at Google mix smoothly with senior management? = Most untouchables in google dont advertise their caste, and pass off as simply low caste shudra

    Does anyone keep track of caste? Why not? Are there lists secretly passed around to keep out caste impostors? (“She is actually only an X from Y state.”) = You can figure out caste mostly by last name, first name, looks, language , dialect etc

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter Display All Comments
  68. @Cloud of Probable Matricide
    Baekjeong were the Korean equivalent of the pariah during the Joseon Dynasty. They had so-called lowly jobs like tanners and butchers and others who worked with animal products. I think also traditional pan-sori singers and gi-Saeng (geisha) were so stigmatized. They are also associated with eight or nine family names. The Japanese have the same concept which is much more well-known to outsiders, but I can't recall the name.

    But you are quite right that there is no reason for you to know any of this. Inside Korean baseball ( ya-gu).

    IIRC, in the novel “Shogun”, Japanese peasants were depicted using the term “eta” for those in shunned occupations like honey bucket men.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Kevin C.
    "Burakumin", 部落民, is the more euphemistic/"PC" term, literally meaning "village people" or "hamlet dwellers." An older, harsher term is, as you note, eta, 穢多, literally meaning "much defilement" or "an abundance of filth", Also, historically, another group whose descendants form part of the modern "burakumin" include those historically called hinin, 非人, literally "non-human", which appears to have been a variable appellation mainly covering ex-convicts and vagrants.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  69. @Dot Not Feather
    There is a lot of confusion going on about caste as shown in EagleEyes comment.

    There are two Sanskrit words that get translated as caste -- varna and jati. Varna is the four-fold hierarchical classification mentioned in the Hindu scriptures: Priests, Warriors, Farmers/Merchants, and Laborers. Shudra is the fourth and lowest of these. Shudras are restricted in certain ritual ways. For instance they cannot learn the Vedas, enter the inner sancta of temples, wear the sacred thread etc.

    A Jati is an endogamous group with particular religious, dietary and social customs in common. Often (but not always) it will have a hereditary occupation. While ideologically it is a Hindu idea, in practice there are also Muslim, Christian, and Jain etc jatis. Jatis can be ranked hierarchically but the exact position can vary from region to region and even village to village.

    The thing is, varna doesn't actually exist as a social concept anymore (in fact if it ever did.) except perhaps amongst the Brahmins (priests) who are a varna and (many) jatis. Because the center of gravity in Hinduism has shifted to the Puranas and Tantras etc. and hardly anyone practices the Vedic rituals in their original form, most jatis could be classified as Shudras but it would certainly not mean they were oppressed or "lower" in the social sense. E.g. the Patels of Gujarat, the Jats of the Punjab and Reddys of Andhra Pradesh are all jatis that do not wear the sacred thread or learn Vedas but are the socially and economically dominant groups of their areas. Conversely, Brahmins particularly the orthodox ones might have high social value but they tend to be quite poor because traditionally they lived off of royal patronage which doesn't exist anymore in democratic India.

    The discrimination that you read about takes place at the jati level. The most well-known example is untouchability amongst the "Scheduled castes" as the Indian constitution calls them or Dalits as the politically correct term is now. The aboriginal "Scheduled Tribes" are often lumped in with them but I can tell you that where my family is from if you called a tribal a Dalit he would attempt to kill you on the spot for the grave insult to his honour. Another example is why there are so many Tamil Brahmins like Pichai and Khosla in the West. Back in the 50's/60's there was a virulent anti-Brahmin movement in Tamil Nadu and to lesser extent in other parts of South India instigated by socially middle ranking but economically powerful castes who rebranded themselves as Dravidians for historically dubious reasons.

    So if I can give some friendly advice, while it is surely satisfying to point out the hypocrisy of Pichai types, may I point out these "Dems are the real racists" type arguments are a tactical error because very few of you know enough to pull it of as EagleEye shows and more importantly the whole premise is wrong.

    A jati is nothing more than an extended family. (literally because of the endogamy and inbreeding.) it is right and proper to prefer ones own family and want to associate the most with ones own family.
    I went from SJWish to alt-right when I realized that White people are not insidiously plotting to keep me down trying to take care of their own extended families. It is right and proper for them to do so and not at all censurable. Sure bigotry can take place in the name of Whiteness just as it can in the name of caste (or Blackness, or Jewishness or...) but it should be taken on a case by case basis and not automatically assumed or treated as if hatred was the whole purpose of some kind of "system"

    Now I shall attempt to answer the questions,


    What is the distribution of Hindu castes among Google employees?

    What percentage of Google staff are Shudra (lowest caste)? How many “Googlers” come from “Scheduled Castes” or “Scheduled Tribes” (i.e. underclass groups)?

     

    It is probably tilted towards the upper castes simply because that's where more of the intelligence and ability is as with Ashkenazis etc. However if anything there is probably more diversity than in India because there is more nepotism and other corruption there.


    Is Pichai himself an “Untouchable”?

     

    No he is a Tamil Brahmin.


    Do higher-caste Indian women at Google date lower-caste men?

     

    As another commentator wrote, most probably don't date. A good number are probably married (and marriage is where caste considerations really come into play.) The ones that do, probably date indiscriminately including with non-Indians. Well, apart from the standard female types of discrimination of course.


    Do Untouchables at Google mix smoothly with senior management?

    Does anyone keep track of caste? Why not? Are there lists secretly passed around to keep out caste impostors? (“She is actually only an X from Y state.”)
     

     I doubt if the types at Google care very much. (Their mothers might.) Another thing you have to bear in mind is a lot of that kind of Indian grew up in big cities and went to English medium often Roman Catholic schools. So they imbibed a lot radical lefty notions before they even set foot over here.

    Thanks for the disambiguating comment.

    I went from SJWish to alt-right when I realized that White people are not insidiously plotting to keep me down trying to take care of their own extended families. It is right and proper for them to do so and not at all censurable.

    They’re generally not trying to take care of their extended families… yet. This is the fascination with The Godfather movies: “never take sides against the family.” At a time in the early 1970s when 1960s social changes were beginning to wreak havoc on the family structures of nuclear Northern and Western Europeans in America, the idea that a Southern European family would be so close-knit as to stand up against the government captured the popular fascination, and has never left it.

    I can see the honorable nature of clan/jati loyalty. If other groups don’t leverage such connections, they will lose out.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  70. @Anatoly Karlin
    I noticed that Indians are remarkably recalcitrant about discussing caste (at least with outsiders).

    In my experience many would reveal their caste if asked, but they would almost inevitably follow it up with some soothing statement to the effect that "it's not a real issue anymore."

    Anatoly Karlin

    even among themselves they donot discuss it….whether a person is of a higher caste or not is determined at least in Northern Half of India by their skin colour (fair or not),sharp facial features (relatively), height,surname,clean clothes,better accent/vocabulary and finally manners. Caste as a topic NEVER enters the conversation in a higher caste household other than discussing how lower castes are stealing the seats of India’s premier academic institutions and cushy low-stress high-paying Government jobs.

    I will not lie, I have been positively discriminated in India because of my 6ft+ height (184.5cm) and a skin colour that approximates 15 on the von Luschan Scale, and negatively discriminated against abroad by other Indians in academic circles….who tend to be more from Southern India and are darker and pudgy and also short height. (the last one debatable..but what I have seen is in Northern half of India, there is a over whelming majority of lower castes who are of very short height and a smattering of higher castes who are of decent height, compared to Southern India where everybody tend to crowd around the average height)

    Now regarding women:

    Indians who are generally above 5″10 (178cm) , have relatively sharper features and lighter skin,do basic weight lifting, have no problems pulling women of European descent or from other immigrant groups (my ex-gf was a of Northern Iranian origin)…..This is why you see the men who have the most success with white women from the sub-continent are Sikh,Pakistani Punjabi,Pashtun and Kashmiri men (both Dogra and Muslims)

    Those sort of Indians pull in white women about as frequently as Middle Eastern,North-African,Turkish men………….

    This would mean they are nowhere as successful as the muscular tallish ones of the sub-saharan African men when it comes to pulling white women, but nowhere near as disastrous as South Indian men or East Asian men.

    The ones who do the best with women in Europe though are agnostic/atheistic Iranian men , as they can also gel into the alternative culture/music scenes of Europe seamlessly

    Read More
    • Agree: Anatoly Karlin
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  71. @googler
    Googler here. Long-time reader, first time writer.

    Sundar Pichai is really not a bad guy and not an SJW. He initially did not want to fire Damore, but as has now been publicly reported in Recode, full SJWs like Susan Wojcicki of Youtube (and other rank and filers) pushed the issue.

    Fundamentally there were no good options for Sundar. Had he not fired Damore, many of his senior managers would have walked out on him, and he might not have been able to continue as CEO. The PR pain of pissing off the right was less than the internal + PR pain of pissing off the left.

    And that's the key thing to change -- but not by attacking fundamentally apolitical people like Sundar. He's an engineering CEO, not an SJW ringleader. The right needs to train its fire on the public SJWs like Mike Isaac (NYT), Farhad Manjoo (NYT), Hunter Walk, Susan Fowler, Liz Fong-Jones, and similar on Twitter. As much as they like to dish it out, these kinds of people are generally unused to getting blown up and personally attacked and reported on.

    https://twitter.com/MikeIsaac/status/893935651996880896
    https://twitter.com/fmanjoo/status/894994257420763136
    https://twitter.com/hunterwalk/status/895794090419249152
    https://twitter.com/susanthesquark/status/896105887596658689
    https://twitter.com/lizthegrey/status/894534272199135233

    You can get a sense of what Sundar is/was dealing with internally here:
    http://voxday.blogspot.ca/2017/08/suppressing-dissent-at-google.html

    As the CEO he is of course the lightning rod, but you should point your guns at the real SJWs. The more pain that SJWs feel, the more they'll think twice about virtue signaling.

    PS: The really interesting thing is that Larry Page managed to hang back in the whole episode. Page is half-Jewish, like Mencius Moldbug, Patri Friedman, Yuri Slezkine, and some of the other most important truth tellers. A lot of the half-Jews in Silicon Valley combine the traditional Jewish intellect and verbal facility with a more genuinely meritocratic spirit. I can't see Larry Page signing off on a letter like Sundar wrote -- Page is very libertarian. Really amazing that he's managed to stay out of it so far.

    Really, Pontius Pilate was a good, just guy. If it weren’t for the angry mob of Pharisees demanding Christ’s death, he would have been happy to keep him alive. But he was faced with a conflict between the group and the law, and he chose the group.

    http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/12083c.htm

    His name will be forever covered with infamy because of the part which he took in this matter, though at the time it appeared to him of small importance.

    Pilate is a type of the worldly man, knowing the right and anxious to do it so far as it can be done without personal sacrifice of any kind, but yielding easily to pressure from those whose interest it is that he should act otherwise. He would gladly have acquitted Christ, and even made serious efforts in that direction, but gave way at once when his own position was threatened.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  72. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @anonymous
    Hey fellow anonymous, glad to see you aboard. ;)

    Anyway, you guys, with your penchant for assassinating foreigners across the world with drones, nuking random Japanese cities, hunting down and murdering racial minorities in the streets (google “indian grandfather killed by Alabama police”) are the last country that needs to be be giving us moral guidance.
     
    Thank goodness you and Sundar Pichai are here to give us moral guidance. I get that, but what caste is he from? I still don't know.

    Pichai is very very likely to be from a Dalit i.e untouchable caste.

    Pichai in Tamil, his mother tongue, stands for “Beg”.

    Sundar Pichai literally means “Sundar the Beggar”.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Sounds dubious.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  73. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @Anatoly Karlin
    I noticed that Indians are remarkably recalcitrant about discussing caste (at least with outsiders).

    In my experience many would reveal their caste if asked, but they would almost inevitably follow it up with some soothing statement to the effect that "it's not a real issue anymore."

    And it’s the truth. For the class of English educated rich people that you are likely to interact with in your day to day life, caste probably plays little or no role.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  74. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @Wilkey
    "Anyway, you guys, with your penchant for assassinating foreigners across the world with drones, nuking random Japanese cities, hunting down and murdering racial minorities in the streets (google “indian grandfather killed by Alabama police”) are the last country that needs to be be giving us moral guidance."

    I know, right? So sad that the people who got droned and the nation that got nuked weren't even doing anything to deserve getting droned or nuked. Had they been professional terrorists or invading, murdering, and raping their way across Asia I suppose it would have been a different story.

    Let’s not forget your country was built upon invading, murdering and raping your way across North America. While your cousins did the same to South America.

    Again, I’m no SJW, but it irritates me when I see Westerners acting holier than thou. Your people were the single biggest mass murderers in history, far worse than the Mongols, Huns and Arabs. Deal with it. And stop yammering on about how unjust and evil other societies are, it’s really creepy.

    Read More
    • Replies: @jim jones
    It`s called survival of the fittest
    , @benjaminl
    I'm not sure if you've noticed, Anonymous, but our Western societies are currently being inundated with people (such as, perhaps, yourself) who, as an expression of gratitude for being permitted to live and work in societies that in every way are more successful than their own, immediately start criticizing and complaining about all the ways that the West has sinned against the world.

    So, if you don't like hearing us criticize other societies (and we criticize our own societies too; it's part of the Western tradition of free inquiry, another gift to the world), I have a proposal for you.

    First, you all go back to your own homelands and make your way there as best you can.

    Then, you'll no longer have to suffer the unpleasantness of hearing our unflattering opinions of your societies.

    Seems like a win-win for all of us.
    , @Opinionator
    Your people were the single biggest mass murderers in history, far worse than the Mongols, Huns and Arabs.

    Stop spreading lies.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  75. res says:
    @googler
    Googler here. Long-time reader, first time writer.

    Sundar Pichai is really not a bad guy and not an SJW. He initially did not want to fire Damore, but as has now been publicly reported in Recode, full SJWs like Susan Wojcicki of Youtube (and other rank and filers) pushed the issue.

    Fundamentally there were no good options for Sundar. Had he not fired Damore, many of his senior managers would have walked out on him, and he might not have been able to continue as CEO. The PR pain of pissing off the right was less than the internal + PR pain of pissing off the left.

    And that's the key thing to change -- but not by attacking fundamentally apolitical people like Sundar. He's an engineering CEO, not an SJW ringleader. The right needs to train its fire on the public SJWs like Mike Isaac (NYT), Farhad Manjoo (NYT), Hunter Walk, Susan Fowler, Liz Fong-Jones, and similar on Twitter. As much as they like to dish it out, these kinds of people are generally unused to getting blown up and personally attacked and reported on.

    https://twitter.com/MikeIsaac/status/893935651996880896
    https://twitter.com/fmanjoo/status/894994257420763136
    https://twitter.com/hunterwalk/status/895794090419249152
    https://twitter.com/susanthesquark/status/896105887596658689
    https://twitter.com/lizthegrey/status/894534272199135233

    You can get a sense of what Sundar is/was dealing with internally here:
    http://voxday.blogspot.ca/2017/08/suppressing-dissent-at-google.html

    As the CEO he is of course the lightning rod, but you should point your guns at the real SJWs. The more pain that SJWs feel, the more they'll think twice about virtue signaling.

    PS: The really interesting thing is that Larry Page managed to hang back in the whole episode. Page is half-Jewish, like Mencius Moldbug, Patri Friedman, Yuri Slezkine, and some of the other most important truth tellers. A lot of the half-Jews in Silicon Valley combine the traditional Jewish intellect and verbal facility with a more genuinely meritocratic spirit. I can't see Larry Page signing off on a letter like Sundar wrote -- Page is very libertarian. Really amazing that he's managed to stay out of it so far.

    Thanks for the explanation. You do seem to be soft pedaling perhaps the best target(s) though: “full SJWs like Susan Wojcicki of Youtube (and other rank and filers) pushed the issue.”

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  76. @Dot Not Feather
    There is a lot of confusion going on about caste as shown in EagleEyes comment.

    There are two Sanskrit words that get translated as caste -- varna and jati. Varna is the four-fold hierarchical classification mentioned in the Hindu scriptures: Priests, Warriors, Farmers/Merchants, and Laborers. Shudra is the fourth and lowest of these. Shudras are restricted in certain ritual ways. For instance they cannot learn the Vedas, enter the inner sancta of temples, wear the sacred thread etc.

    A Jati is an endogamous group with particular religious, dietary and social customs in common. Often (but not always) it will have a hereditary occupation. While ideologically it is a Hindu idea, in practice there are also Muslim, Christian, and Jain etc jatis. Jatis can be ranked hierarchically but the exact position can vary from region to region and even village to village.

    The thing is, varna doesn't actually exist as a social concept anymore (in fact if it ever did.) except perhaps amongst the Brahmins (priests) who are a varna and (many) jatis. Because the center of gravity in Hinduism has shifted to the Puranas and Tantras etc. and hardly anyone practices the Vedic rituals in their original form, most jatis could be classified as Shudras but it would certainly not mean they were oppressed or "lower" in the social sense. E.g. the Patels of Gujarat, the Jats of the Punjab and Reddys of Andhra Pradesh are all jatis that do not wear the sacred thread or learn Vedas but are the socially and economically dominant groups of their areas. Conversely, Brahmins particularly the orthodox ones might have high social value but they tend to be quite poor because traditionally they lived off of royal patronage which doesn't exist anymore in democratic India.

    The discrimination that you read about takes place at the jati level. The most well-known example is untouchability amongst the "Scheduled castes" as the Indian constitution calls them or Dalits as the politically correct term is now. The aboriginal "Scheduled Tribes" are often lumped in with them but I can tell you that where my family is from if you called a tribal a Dalit he would attempt to kill you on the spot for the grave insult to his honour. Another example is why there are so many Tamil Brahmins like Pichai and Khosla in the West. Back in the 50's/60's there was a virulent anti-Brahmin movement in Tamil Nadu and to lesser extent in other parts of South India instigated by socially middle ranking but economically powerful castes who rebranded themselves as Dravidians for historically dubious reasons.

    So if I can give some friendly advice, while it is surely satisfying to point out the hypocrisy of Pichai types, may I point out these "Dems are the real racists" type arguments are a tactical error because very few of you know enough to pull it of as EagleEye shows and more importantly the whole premise is wrong.

    A jati is nothing more than an extended family. (literally because of the endogamy and inbreeding.) it is right and proper to prefer ones own family and want to associate the most with ones own family.
    I went from SJWish to alt-right when I realized that White people are not insidiously plotting to keep me down trying to take care of their own extended families. It is right and proper for them to do so and not at all censurable. Sure bigotry can take place in the name of Whiteness just as it can in the name of caste (or Blackness, or Jewishness or...) but it should be taken on a case by case basis and not automatically assumed or treated as if hatred was the whole purpose of some kind of "system"

    Now I shall attempt to answer the questions,


    What is the distribution of Hindu castes among Google employees?

    What percentage of Google staff are Shudra (lowest caste)? How many “Googlers” come from “Scheduled Castes” or “Scheduled Tribes” (i.e. underclass groups)?

     

    It is probably tilted towards the upper castes simply because that's where more of the intelligence and ability is as with Ashkenazis etc. However if anything there is probably more diversity than in India because there is more nepotism and other corruption there.


    Is Pichai himself an “Untouchable”?

     

    No he is a Tamil Brahmin.


    Do higher-caste Indian women at Google date lower-caste men?

     

    As another commentator wrote, most probably don't date. A good number are probably married (and marriage is where caste considerations really come into play.) The ones that do, probably date indiscriminately including with non-Indians. Well, apart from the standard female types of discrimination of course.


    Do Untouchables at Google mix smoothly with senior management?

    Does anyone keep track of caste? Why not? Are there lists secretly passed around to keep out caste impostors? (“She is actually only an X from Y state.”)
     

     I doubt if the types at Google care very much. (Their mothers might.) Another thing you have to bear in mind is a lot of that kind of Indian grew up in big cities and went to English medium often Roman Catholic schools. So they imbibed a lot radical lefty notions before they even set foot over here.

    Very illuminating comment, thanks.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  77. @Anonymous

    Is Pichai himself an “Untouchable”?
     
    Pichai Sundarrajan aka Sundar Pichai is a Tamil Brahmin of the Iyengar sub-caste; I belong to the other Tamil Brahmin sub caste, the Iyers.

    Traditionally, members of these two sub-castes do not intermarry, but these hard and fast rules have eroded in the last 50 years, especially in the modern urban workplace and in elite university environments in India, where young people from all castes are thrown together, and modern economy incomes make them largely independent of their parents wishes. However, the as yet less developed culture of dating in India means that many urban professional young men and women fall back on the age-old arranged marriage networks of their parents out of a sense of urgency, as they approach the age of thirty.

    Sundar Pichai's wife is a North Indian, Rajasthani Brahmin who was his classmate in the Indian Institute of Technology. Again, a generation ago, the two would not have married, but their marriage is not unusual these days. It is not necessarily typical, either.

    Caste identity remains very strong in rural and pre-industrial settings in India. But caste identities have severely eroded in urban settings, and are absent in the modern Indian professional workplace. At the level of modern interpersonal interaction in the workplace, caste is quite hard to determine, absent the old markers of sub-caste based dialect, clothing, food and religious rituals. These tend to be not transmitted to the university-educated young, especially those who study away from home.

    Language identity still plays a part in some firms and may spill over into Indian circles in the workplace in your country. For instance, the gossip here is that the American H1-B programmer world is dominated by Telugu speakers, to the detriment of Tamil or Kannada speakers.

    Are “Tamils” Sri Lankan/from Sri Lanka?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anon
    Not Pichai.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  78. charlie says:
    @Anonymous

    Is Pichai himself an “Untouchable”?
     
    Pichai Sundarrajan aka Sundar Pichai is a Tamil Brahmin of the Iyengar sub-caste; I belong to the other Tamil Brahmin sub caste, the Iyers.

    Traditionally, members of these two sub-castes do not intermarry, but these hard and fast rules have eroded in the last 50 years, especially in the modern urban workplace and in elite university environments in India, where young people from all castes are thrown together, and modern economy incomes make them largely independent of their parents wishes. However, the as yet less developed culture of dating in India means that many urban professional young men and women fall back on the age-old arranged marriage networks of their parents out of a sense of urgency, as they approach the age of thirty.

    Sundar Pichai's wife is a North Indian, Rajasthani Brahmin who was his classmate in the Indian Institute of Technology. Again, a generation ago, the two would not have married, but their marriage is not unusual these days. It is not necessarily typical, either.

    Caste identity remains very strong in rural and pre-industrial settings in India. But caste identities have severely eroded in urban settings, and are absent in the modern Indian professional workplace. At the level of modern interpersonal interaction in the workplace, caste is quite hard to determine, absent the old markers of sub-caste based dialect, clothing, food and religious rituals. These tend to be not transmitted to the university-educated young, especially those who study away from home.

    Language identity still plays a part in some firms and may spill over into Indian circles in the workplace in your country. For instance, the gossip here is that the American H1-B programmer world is dominated by Telugu speakers, to the detriment of Tamil or Kannada speakers.

    The irony with Pichai is all this has happened before.

    Look at what happened in Tamil Nadu after they turned on the tamil brahmins.

    Or what happened with the scheduled castes and tribes in affirmative action.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  79. @googler
    Googler here. Long-time reader, first time writer.

    Sundar Pichai is really not a bad guy and not an SJW. He initially did not want to fire Damore, but as has now been publicly reported in Recode, full SJWs like Susan Wojcicki of Youtube (and other rank and filers) pushed the issue.

    Fundamentally there were no good options for Sundar. Had he not fired Damore, many of his senior managers would have walked out on him, and he might not have been able to continue as CEO. The PR pain of pissing off the right was less than the internal + PR pain of pissing off the left.

    And that's the key thing to change -- but not by attacking fundamentally apolitical people like Sundar. He's an engineering CEO, not an SJW ringleader. The right needs to train its fire on the public SJWs like Mike Isaac (NYT), Farhad Manjoo (NYT), Hunter Walk, Susan Fowler, Liz Fong-Jones, and similar on Twitter. As much as they like to dish it out, these kinds of people are generally unused to getting blown up and personally attacked and reported on.

    https://twitter.com/MikeIsaac/status/893935651996880896
    https://twitter.com/fmanjoo/status/894994257420763136
    https://twitter.com/hunterwalk/status/895794090419249152
    https://twitter.com/susanthesquark/status/896105887596658689
    https://twitter.com/lizthegrey/status/894534272199135233

    You can get a sense of what Sundar is/was dealing with internally here:
    http://voxday.blogspot.ca/2017/08/suppressing-dissent-at-google.html

    As the CEO he is of course the lightning rod, but you should point your guns at the real SJWs. The more pain that SJWs feel, the more they'll think twice about virtue signaling.

    PS: The really interesting thing is that Larry Page managed to hang back in the whole episode. Page is half-Jewish, like Mencius Moldbug, Patri Friedman, Yuri Slezkine, and some of the other most important truth tellers. A lot of the half-Jews in Silicon Valley combine the traditional Jewish intellect and verbal facility with a more genuinely meritocratic spirit. I can't see Larry Page signing off on a letter like Sundar wrote -- Page is very libertarian. Really amazing that he's managed to stay out of it so far.

    Sundar Pichai is really not a bad guy and not an SJW.

    I’m sure you are right. But as others mention, he conforms to the SJWs and for this he must be opposed. The enormous hypocrisy must be pointed out, 95% of non-muslim south asians at google are brahmins (a category they are all well aware of, don’t let anyone tell you otherwise), and they are what, 6% of the population pool? It is an active area of study how genetically distinct the indian castes are, but a couple thousand years of restricted intra-caste marriage means it’s likely (like the ashkenazi).

    If we are enforcing equality of outcome, here is a good place to start. The point is not that we actually should seek such “equality” (heaven forbid), the point is that not one (american) SJW will expend an ounce of energy on this. That’s how you know this is about hate-whitey, i.e. it’s about power. The spectacle of a brahmin lecturing americans about equal outcome is beyond the pale, though it is also incredibly humorous.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    How much is Sundar Pichai as CEO of Google, the subsidiary of Alphabet, a puppet of founders Sergey and Larry, who own much of the voting stock? Did Sundar figure that Susan Wojcicki's strident views against Damore represented Sergey, since Wojcicki was Sergey's landlord in the last century and his sister-in-law for awhile in this one?
    , @rec1man
    Most of the Indian communist leaders and SJW are also brahmins
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  80. BB753 says:
    @Dot Not Feather
    There is a lot of confusion going on about caste as shown in EagleEyes comment.

    There are two Sanskrit words that get translated as caste -- varna and jati. Varna is the four-fold hierarchical classification mentioned in the Hindu scriptures: Priests, Warriors, Farmers/Merchants, and Laborers. Shudra is the fourth and lowest of these. Shudras are restricted in certain ritual ways. For instance they cannot learn the Vedas, enter the inner sancta of temples, wear the sacred thread etc.

    A Jati is an endogamous group with particular religious, dietary and social customs in common. Often (but not always) it will have a hereditary occupation. While ideologically it is a Hindu idea, in practice there are also Muslim, Christian, and Jain etc jatis. Jatis can be ranked hierarchically but the exact position can vary from region to region and even village to village.

    The thing is, varna doesn't actually exist as a social concept anymore (in fact if it ever did.) except perhaps amongst the Brahmins (priests) who are a varna and (many) jatis. Because the center of gravity in Hinduism has shifted to the Puranas and Tantras etc. and hardly anyone practices the Vedic rituals in their original form, most jatis could be classified as Shudras but it would certainly not mean they were oppressed or "lower" in the social sense. E.g. the Patels of Gujarat, the Jats of the Punjab and Reddys of Andhra Pradesh are all jatis that do not wear the sacred thread or learn Vedas but are the socially and economically dominant groups of their areas. Conversely, Brahmins particularly the orthodox ones might have high social value but they tend to be quite poor because traditionally they lived off of royal patronage which doesn't exist anymore in democratic India.

    The discrimination that you read about takes place at the jati level. The most well-known example is untouchability amongst the "Scheduled castes" as the Indian constitution calls them or Dalits as the politically correct term is now. The aboriginal "Scheduled Tribes" are often lumped in with them but I can tell you that where my family is from if you called a tribal a Dalit he would attempt to kill you on the spot for the grave insult to his honour. Another example is why there are so many Tamil Brahmins like Pichai and Khosla in the West. Back in the 50's/60's there was a virulent anti-Brahmin movement in Tamil Nadu and to lesser extent in other parts of South India instigated by socially middle ranking but economically powerful castes who rebranded themselves as Dravidians for historically dubious reasons.

    So if I can give some friendly advice, while it is surely satisfying to point out the hypocrisy of Pichai types, may I point out these "Dems are the real racists" type arguments are a tactical error because very few of you know enough to pull it of as EagleEye shows and more importantly the whole premise is wrong.

    A jati is nothing more than an extended family. (literally because of the endogamy and inbreeding.) it is right and proper to prefer ones own family and want to associate the most with ones own family.
    I went from SJWish to alt-right when I realized that White people are not insidiously plotting to keep me down trying to take care of their own extended families. It is right and proper for them to do so and not at all censurable. Sure bigotry can take place in the name of Whiteness just as it can in the name of caste (or Blackness, or Jewishness or...) but it should be taken on a case by case basis and not automatically assumed or treated as if hatred was the whole purpose of some kind of "system"

    Now I shall attempt to answer the questions,


    What is the distribution of Hindu castes among Google employees?

    What percentage of Google staff are Shudra (lowest caste)? How many “Googlers” come from “Scheduled Castes” or “Scheduled Tribes” (i.e. underclass groups)?

     

    It is probably tilted towards the upper castes simply because that's where more of the intelligence and ability is as with Ashkenazis etc. However if anything there is probably more diversity than in India because there is more nepotism and other corruption there.


    Is Pichai himself an “Untouchable”?

     

    No he is a Tamil Brahmin.


    Do higher-caste Indian women at Google date lower-caste men?

     

    As another commentator wrote, most probably don't date. A good number are probably married (and marriage is where caste considerations really come into play.) The ones that do, probably date indiscriminately including with non-Indians. Well, apart from the standard female types of discrimination of course.


    Do Untouchables at Google mix smoothly with senior management?

    Does anyone keep track of caste? Why not? Are there lists secretly passed around to keep out caste impostors? (“She is actually only an X from Y state.”)
     

     I doubt if the types at Google care very much. (Their mothers might.) Another thing you have to bear in mind is a lot of that kind of Indian grew up in big cities and went to English medium often Roman Catholic schools. So they imbibed a lot radical lefty notions before they even set foot over here.

    Are Indians in the West creating new jatis? I mean, endogamous groups in tech, motel owners, retail, taxi drivers and so on, corresponding to Western professions.

    Read More
    • Replies: @rec1man
    No, a Jati has often more than 1 source of income , and always tries to expand into new niches.
    Brahmins were originally solely priests, later expanded into teaching, then engineering , law etc

    The Leva Patel own most of the Motels
    the slightly lower ranking Kadva Patel own many of the Subway / Dunkin Donuts

    The Jat Sikhs run many of the Taxis and Trucks and own farming land in California

    Back home all of them are kulak type large farmers
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  81. @Karl
    16 Kaz > To keep things simple lets just go with Pakistani


    When you were a kid, did your maid speak to you in Punjabi or Sindhi?

    PS: If your compatriots "back home" really don't want Christians around them... send them to us. Their religion is indigenous to our Land. Every year, the IDF issues 250-300 New Testaments (in Hebrew) to its Christian new-recruits.

    By “us” do you mean Israel or the US?

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  82. @Anatoly Karlin
    I noticed that Indians are remarkably recalcitrant about discussing caste (at least with outsiders).

    In my experience many would reveal their caste if asked, but they would almost inevitably follow it up with some soothing statement to the effect that "it's not a real issue anymore."

    The Indians I worked with were very competent and amiable. But say anything challenging to them about India and they get very defensive. They could also be insufferably arrogant. But lots of smart people are arrogant.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  83. JamesG says:
    @Sunbeam
    "What about Korean baekjeong at Google?"

    WTF? Never heard of it.

    Come on. Say 7 billion humans. LOTS of cultures. LOTS of history.

    Indian castes are a pretty famous concept, in the anglosphere, at least.

    But it seems to me it is pretty reasonable not to have ever heard of that term. If someone wants to use that as an example they ought to explain what the heck it is.

    And no, I'm not googling it.

    I don’t google any more.

    I Bing.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  84. LKM says:
    @Karl
    16 Kaz > To keep things simple lets just go with Pakistani


    When you were a kid, did your maid speak to you in Punjabi or Sindhi?

    PS: If your compatriots "back home" really don't want Christians around them... send them to us. Their religion is indigenous to our Land. Every year, the IDF issues 250-300 New Testaments (in Hebrew) to its Christian new-recruits.

    Why Hebrew? Aren’t most Israeli Christians Arab-speaking?

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  85. @epebble
    For general U.S. population, similar data is available at

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_ethnicity_in_the_United_States#Multiracial_Americans_and_admixture

    One statistic that stands out:

    Admixture in European-American population (Schriver et al. 2003, sample size n=187)
    % European Admixture Frequency
    90-100 68%
    80-89.9 22%
    70-79.9 8%
    60-69.9 < 1%
    50-59.9 < 1%
    40-49.9 < 1%
    0-39.9 0

    i.e. if one were to apply 10% filter (much more permissive than the "one-drop rule"), only 68% can be considered to be of European ancestry.

    For general U.S. population, similar data is available at

    Epebble, this isn’t “similar data” at all.

    American “whites” are actually quite “white”. This

    i.e. if one were to apply 10% filter (much more permissive than the “one-drop rule”), only 68% can be considered to be of European ancestry.

    is such obvious bunkum I went and actually read the Wikipedia article.

    In a survey of college students who self-identified as ‘white’ in a northeastern U.S. university, genetic testing revealed that around 30% had less than 90% European ancestry. Through DNA analysis, the study found an average of 0.7% African genetic admixture with a standard error of 0.9%, and 3.2% Native American admixture with a standard error of 1.6%, in a sample of white Americans in State College, Pennsylvania. Most of the non-white admixture was concentrated in 30% of the sample, with African admixture ranging from 2 to 20%, with an average of 2.3%.

    –> Hardly a general survey (like the Indian survey) but a small survey at one northeastern university.

    –> Even among the “mixed” there is little African DNA

    Speculation–but i’d bet serious money i’m right–what’s going on here is some combination of:
    – heavily Jewish sample and Jews are tagged as being half “middle eastern” or “west Asian” (or something) rather than white; (my niece who is sandy haired and blue eyed and of very paleish hue would ergo be 25% “middle eastern” and ergo not “white” … uh, no)
    – generally wonky DNA test that throws off lots of components common in Europeans as “west Asian” or “middle eastern”;
    – white Hispanics–probably most of the Hispanic AAs at elite schools–identifying as white, but having 10-20% Amer-Indian DNA
    – Italians, Greeks, etc. with a DNA test that calls them 10-30% “middle eastern” or something
    – some Hapas identifying as white

    What is most certainly not true in the US is that there are a significant percentage of white people in the US who believe their ancestry is fully “white”, but are actually not “white”. This is just an argument about identification. Jews–and half Jews–know they are Jewish or part Jewish. Hispanics know they are Hispanic. Italians know they are Italian. Hapas know they are part Asian.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  86. Eagle Eye says:
    @Kaz
    As an American guy of Indian/Pakistani ethnicity that's worked in a consulting company with a lot of FOBs, H1Bs, offshore teams from India etc..

    I've never heard of caste discussed once..Within my family and dealing with other South-Asian people , growing up I've never heard of the caste system.

    Comments about fair skin definitely.

    The only weird Indian race stuff people around me would speak of would be Patans (Pashtuns), though that's probably just a Pakistani thing.

    I can speak and understand Hindi/Urdu fairly fluently, so it's not like they can discuss it in secret behind my back.

    The only time I've heard about the caste system is on the internet and books. From what I can gather it seems to be a village/small-town politics thing. How could you even keep track of such a thing in a country of a billion people..

    OK Kaz,

    I can actually believe that caste was not explicitly discussed around you, although you may have missed some hints that would be considered obvious by those “in the know.” Think if how the term “confirmed bachelor” was used in the past to hint that a man is gay. May I suggest a little empirical survey?

    I hope your parents are well. Next time you see them, take them aside separately and ask them one easy, one medium and one hard question:

    EASY QUESTION: Tell me about the cast system among Hindus. How have you personally experienced it in Pakistan, India and here in the U.S.?

    MEDIUM-HARD QUESTION: Are there remnants of a cast system among Muslims in Pakistan, India and Bangladesh? (NOTE: Christian churches in India often discuss problems with caste discrimination among their members.)

    HARD QUESTION: What caste are we? (Many Muslims in Greater India are quite aware of the caste they were before they converted to Islam, but this may be less true in Pakistan than, e.g. Bangladesh.)

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  87. @MG
    Strictly speaking there's no such thing as "castes." That terminology was introduced by the Portuguese. The Indian taxonomic terms are "jati" and "varna." There's a great deal of misunderstanding and ignorance in the West on the topic.

    There’s a great deal of misunderstanding and ignorance in the West on the topic.

    Well of course there’s “ignorance”, it’s another culture.

    But the picture of “caste” in the West is basically accurate in the essentials. It’s thousands of what were (there is some modern breakdown) endogamous groups in a stratified hierarchy. Feudalism–with serfdom and slavery–on steroids.

    And it is unique. The only things roughly akin to it in the West are the Jews and gypsies–endogamous communities that tightly policed against relations with the goyim to keep themselves separate. Most primitive societies have tribes or clans. But every other civilized society is highly mixed with significant gene flow across social classes. There is no other true caste society like India.

    Westerners who have learned about the caste system–sure they are “ignorant” about the details, but they get the essential picture.

    Read More
    • Replies: @AnotherDad

    And it is unique. The only things roughly akin to it in the West are the Jews and gypsies–endogamous communities that tightly policed against relations with the goyim to keep themselves separate.
     
    Before, some Indian jumps on this, i'll admit that the Jews and Gypsies are pretty poor analogies to these castes (ok Jati) in India. Jews and Gypsies are fundamentally outsider rejectionists of the societies they inhabit--outsiders keeping themselves separate from the normies. All these castes in India are the society, are the normies. The society is made up of separate endogamous castes.

    Like i said it's unique. Sociologically India is the weirdest place on earth.
    , @Kevin C.

    And it is unique. The only things roughly akin to it in the West are the Jews and gypsies–endogamous communities that tightly policed against relations with the goyim to keep themselves separate.
     
    One also cannot forget that the Romani languages are classified by linguists as Indo-Aryan, and current evidence, historical, linguistic, and genetic, indicates the Gypsies migrated out of the Indian subcontinent some time between the 6th and 11th century. Quoth Wikipedia:

    They originated in northwest regions of the Indian subcontinent and left sometime between the 6th and 11th century to work in Middle Eastern courts of their own volition, or as slaves. A small number of nomadic groups were cut off from their return to the subcontinent by conflicts and moved west, eventually settling in Europe, Turkey and North Africa via Iran.
     
    One can also read about how at least some of their insularity relates to religious purity laws with roots in South Asian traditions.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  88. Eagle Eye says:
    @Boudicca
    An interesting contradiction vis a vis Progressives and India:

    Progressive propagandist Doug Saunders wrote of "the residential school archipelago" - an obvious allusion to Solzhenitsyn's Gulag Archipelago. Even "modern Canada" and "current Canadians are accused of a crime as serious as genocide under international law." Saunders asserts there is a "functional similarity" between Canada and the Ottoman Empire's genocide of the Armenians and the Holodomor.

    India’s 80 million Aboriginal people often live in bad conditions, generally far worse than those experienced in Canada. The primary method to deal with Aboriginal poverty and disenfranchisement is through "residential institutes" including the Kalinga Institute of Social Sciences “World’s largest residential school for Indigenous children.” “A total transformation of the tribal children and a revolutionary endeavour". This program has the backing of the United Nations.

    Article on Indian slumlords:

    http://vancouversun.com/news/local-news/they-thought-i-was-going-to-back-down-and-leave-dtes-tenants-court-case-shines-light-on-practices-of-sahota-landlords

    Kalinga Institute of Social Sciences “World’s largest residential school for Indigenous children.”

    Name sounds creepy. Could be India’s attempt to improve on the U.S. and Canadian residential schools, Catholic orphanages in Western Australia, and Kincora Boys’ Home in the UK.

    http://www.thedailybeast.com/how-thatchers-mi5-spy-chief-protected-a-pedophile-member-of-parliament

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  89. anonymous says: • Disclaimer

    “Another example is why there are so many Tamil Brahmins like Pichai and Khosla in the West. Back in the 50′s/60′s there was a virulent anti-Brahmin movement…”

    and

    “Another thing you have to bear in mind is a lot of that kind of Indian grew up in big cities and went to English medium often Roman Catholic schools.”

    I was once a visiting prof at an IIT. One of the things that surprised me was how many (most?) of the students had gone to English-speaking “missionary schools” their entire lives. Perhaps that had an effect on the role of caste in their lives, or at least how they discussed it in their professional lives? Would anyone know what the percentage of IIT students with a missionary school background is?

    Also, the department expected near 100% placement overseas; for this department, at least, that was almost the point of going to IIT (except for a few who had family issues).

    I was also a bit surprised at how many students seemed to look down on their professors. One faculty member told me it was because the students were used to dealing with servants and somewhat put their teachers in that category. Besides, who were these losers who couldn’t get jobs overseas?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Opinionator
    What is your appraisal of the quality of the students?
    , @Numinous

    I was also a bit surprised at how many students seemed to look down on their professors.
     
    I call complete BS on this. I grew up in India and went to an IIT. There are absolutely no such dynamics in India. Quite the opposite: teachers are expected, and given much more leeway than in the West, to be authoritarian in their classrooms. If anything, Indian students don't question their teachers even when they should. They learn that behavior when they go to grad school in the West.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  90. @AnotherDad

    There’s a great deal of misunderstanding and ignorance in the West on the topic.
     
    Well of course there's "ignorance", it's another culture.

    But the picture of "caste" in the West is basically accurate in the essentials. It's thousands of what were (there is some modern breakdown) endogamous groups in a stratified hierarchy. Feudalism--with serfdom and slavery--on steroids.

    And it is unique. The only things roughly akin to it in the West are the Jews and gypsies--endogamous communities that tightly policed against relations with the goyim to keep themselves separate. Most primitive societies have tribes or clans. But every other civilized society is highly mixed with significant gene flow across social classes. There is no other true caste society like India.

    Westerners who have learned about the caste system--sure they are "ignorant" about the details, but they get the essential picture.

    And it is unique. The only things roughly akin to it in the West are the Jews and gypsies–endogamous communities that tightly policed against relations with the goyim to keep themselves separate.

    Before, some Indian jumps on this, i’ll admit that the Jews and Gypsies are pretty poor analogies to these castes (ok Jati) in India. Jews and Gypsies are fundamentally outsider rejectionists of the societies they inhabit–outsiders keeping themselves separate from the normies. All these castes in India are the society, are the normies. The society is made up of separate endogamous castes.

    Like i said it’s unique. Sociologically India is the weirdest place on earth.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  91. @Horrowshow

    Sundar Pichai is really not a bad guy and not an SJW.
     
    I'm sure you are right. But as others mention, he conforms to the SJWs and for this he must be opposed. The enormous hypocrisy must be pointed out, 95% of non-muslim south asians at google are brahmins (a category they are all well aware of, don't let anyone tell you otherwise), and they are what, 6% of the population pool? It is an active area of study how genetically distinct the indian castes are, but a couple thousand years of restricted intra-caste marriage means it's likely (like the ashkenazi).

    If we are enforcing equality of outcome, here is a good place to start. The point is not that we actually should seek such "equality" (heaven forbid), the point is that not one (american) SJW will expend an ounce of energy on this. That's how you know this is about hate-whitey, i.e. it's about power. The spectacle of a brahmin lecturing americans about equal outcome is beyond the pale, though it is also incredibly humorous.

    How much is Sundar Pichai as CEO of Google, the subsidiary of Alphabet, a puppet of founders Sergey and Larry, who own much of the voting stock? Did Sundar figure that Susan Wojcicki’s strident views against Damore represented Sergey, since Wojcicki was Sergey’s landlord in the last century and his sister-in-law for awhile in this one?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Horrowshow
    I imagine Sundar wants nothing more than to get back to strategic technical management of his highly talented teams, recruited based (mostly) on merit from all over the world. It seems certain that he spent the days before the firing consulting not just with his direct management team, but also asking Larry and Sergey what the heck he should do. Google can survive for an extended period based just on maintenance of existing assets, but their real long-term success requires a quorum of precisely the kind of person they just fired, white man or not (both talented and free-spirited). The corporate culture of free-wheeling talent and open transparent discussion can't survive with too high a parasite level, which is presumably why that talent is now raising questions. A number of startup companies I've known had their legacy early employees now in power positions (and yes, as it turns out, often they are women who started modestly and went up fast as company success came). They sometimes play a strange role, to put it mildly. It would be interesting to hear from someone who knows these details in google's case. Why on earth do they allow SJWs so much power? Their company is at stake.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  92. Anon says: • Disclaimer
    @Opinionator
    Are "Tamils" Sri Lankan/from Sri Lanka?

    Not Pichai.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  93. Eagle Eye says:
    @googler
    Googler here. Long-time reader, first time writer.

    Sundar Pichai is really not a bad guy and not an SJW. He initially did not want to fire Damore, but as has now been publicly reported in Recode, full SJWs like Susan Wojcicki of Youtube (and other rank and filers) pushed the issue.

    Fundamentally there were no good options for Sundar. Had he not fired Damore, many of his senior managers would have walked out on him, and he might not have been able to continue as CEO. The PR pain of pissing off the right was less than the internal + PR pain of pissing off the left.

    And that's the key thing to change -- but not by attacking fundamentally apolitical people like Sundar. He's an engineering CEO, not an SJW ringleader. The right needs to train its fire on the public SJWs like Mike Isaac (NYT), Farhad Manjoo (NYT), Hunter Walk, Susan Fowler, Liz Fong-Jones, and similar on Twitter. As much as they like to dish it out, these kinds of people are generally unused to getting blown up and personally attacked and reported on.

    https://twitter.com/MikeIsaac/status/893935651996880896
    https://twitter.com/fmanjoo/status/894994257420763136
    https://twitter.com/hunterwalk/status/895794090419249152
    https://twitter.com/susanthesquark/status/896105887596658689
    https://twitter.com/lizthegrey/status/894534272199135233

    You can get a sense of what Sundar is/was dealing with internally here:
    http://voxday.blogspot.ca/2017/08/suppressing-dissent-at-google.html

    As the CEO he is of course the lightning rod, but you should point your guns at the real SJWs. The more pain that SJWs feel, the more they'll think twice about virtue signaling.

    PS: The really interesting thing is that Larry Page managed to hang back in the whole episode. Page is half-Jewish, like Mencius Moldbug, Patri Friedman, Yuri Slezkine, and some of the other most important truth tellers. A lot of the half-Jews in Silicon Valley combine the traditional Jewish intellect and verbal facility with a more genuinely meritocratic spirit. I can't see Larry Page signing off on a letter like Sundar wrote -- Page is very libertarian. Really amazing that he's managed to stay out of it so far.

    Had [Pichai] not fired Damore, many of his senior managers would have walked out on him, and he might not have been able to continue as CEO.

    Right.

    All the courtiers who had clawed their way to the top would totally “walk out on” their CEO over a question of ideological principle at the drop of a hat.

    Read More
    • Agree: Alden
    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    I presume that all that really mattered was what Sergey and Larry wanted.
    , @res
    File this with all of the people who were going to leave the US if Trump was elected.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  94. Eagle Eye says:
    @Cloud of Probable Matricide
    Baekjeong were the Korean equivalent of the pariah during the Joseon Dynasty. They had so-called lowly jobs like tanners and butchers and others who worked with animal products. I think also traditional pan-sori singers and gi-Saeng (geisha) were so stigmatized. They are also associated with eight or nine family names. The Japanese have the same concept which is much more well-known to outsiders, but I can't recall the name.

    But you are quite right that there is no reason for you to know any of this. Inside Korean baseball ( ya-gu).

    The Japanese have the same concept which is much more well-known to outsiders, but I can’t recall the name.

    Burakumin.

    As with all these traditional outcast groups in modernizing countries, there are quite a number of traditional pejorative terms, and there are various modern euphemisms.

    Belonging to one of these outcast groups can be very lucrative as they enjoy monopolies over certain occupations that are viewed as tainted, mostly to do with dead animals and human corpses.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  95. @Anonymous
    India has had two presidents from the untouchable caste, including the current one, who is a Hindu nationalist. The current Hindu nationalist prime minister is from one of the lowest castes. Several important state governors and supreme court judges gave also been from the lowest and untouchable castes. We have also had women as Prime minister and President.

    I'm no SJW and I'm sympathetic to Damore, but I think pichai did what he did because of the politically correct climate surrounding him.

    Anyway, you guys, with your penchant for assassinating foreigners across the world with drones, nuking random Japanese cities, hunting down and murdering racial minorities in the streets (google "indian grandfather killed by Alabama police") are the last country that needs to be be giving us moral guidance.

    Anyway, you guys, with your penchant for assassinating foreigners across the world with drones, nuking random Japanese cities, hunting down and murdering racial minorities in the streets (google “indian grandfather killed by Alabama police”) are the last country that needs to be be giving us moral guidance.

    Right. We American white guys really suck. Terrible people. And yet … Indians keep bailing on India and flocking over her to sponge off what we’ve built. Hmm.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    No, I didn't say that. I am broad minded enough to appreciate the achievements of the white man throughout history. My Hindu ancestors have also been equally respectful of the abilities of the Greeks.

    What gets my goat is you people thinking you're somehow holier than we are. Blatant example of pot calling the kettle ...

    India gave full legal rights to the so-called untouchables way back in the 1940s. America segregated Blacks well into the sixties. And south Africa even later.

    All things considered, after adjusting for overall national standard of living, it's probably much better being an untouchable in India than a black man in America. At least an untouchable in India can move to the city and no one would know his caste and most would not care.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  96. @Anonymous
    Pichai is very very likely to be from a Dalit i.e untouchable caste.

    Pichai in Tamil, his mother tongue, stands for "Beg".

    Sundar Pichai literally means "Sundar the Beggar".

    Sounds dubious.

    Read More
    • Replies: @anonguy

    Sounds dubious.
     
    Sounds too good to be true.
    , @Anonymous
    Here's someone else who corroborates what his name means
    http://www.searchindia.com/2013/03/13/google-picks-indian-to-bust-apples-balls/

    I know plenty of Brahmins and I've never met one named "beggar".
    , @rec1man
    Sundar 's fathers name is Pichai, which does mean beggar

    It was likely given to ward off the evil eye, bcos Pichai elder sibling died in infancy
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  97. @Anonymous
    India has had two presidents from the untouchable caste, including the current one, who is a Hindu nationalist. The current Hindu nationalist prime minister is from one of the lowest castes. Several important state governors and supreme court judges gave also been from the lowest and untouchable castes. We have also had women as Prime minister and President.

    I'm no SJW and I'm sympathetic to Damore, but I think pichai did what he did because of the politically correct climate surrounding him.

    Anyway, you guys, with your penchant for assassinating foreigners across the world with drones, nuking random Japanese cities, hunting down and murdering racial minorities in the streets (google "indian grandfather killed by Alabama police") are the last country that needs to be be giving us moral guidance.

    Anyway, you guys, with your penchant for assassinating foreigners across the world with drones, nuking random Japanese cities, hunting down and murdering racial minorities in the streets (google “indian grandfather killed by Alabama police”) are the last country that needs to be be giving us moral guidance.

    BTW, the “nuking random Japanese cities” was park of a large process of rolling back “the Greater East Asian Co-Prosperity Sphere”. Only a small portion of India was ever in Japanese control and handed over to Bose as a puppet state. But large portions of China, Vietnam and Philippines were fully part of the co-prosperity sphere. Generally reviews of the experience have not been positive.

    Read More
    • Replies: @anonguy

    Only a small portion of India was ever in Japanese control
     
    Interesting point about India is that they had a formation, the Indian Legion, collaborating with the Nazis and the Indian National Army collaborating with the Japanese during WWII.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  98. @Eagle Eye

    Had [Pichai] not fired Damore, many of his senior managers would have walked out on him, and he might not have been able to continue as CEO.
     
    Right.

    All the courtiers who had clawed their way to the top would totally "walk out on" their CEO over a question of ideological principle at the drop of a hat.

    I presume that all that really mattered was what Sergey and Larry wanted.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  99. jim jones says:
    @Anonymous
    Let's not forget your country was built upon invading, murdering and raping your way across North America. While your cousins did the same to South America.

    Again, I'm no SJW, but it irritates me when I see Westerners acting holier than thou. Your people were the single biggest mass murderers in history, far worse than the Mongols, Huns and Arabs. Deal with it. And stop yammering on about how unjust and evil other societies are, it's really creepy.

    It`s called survival of the fittest

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  100. anonguy says:
    @Anonymous

    Anyway, you guys, with your penchant for assassinating foreigners across the world with drones, nuking random Japanese cities, hunting down and murdering racial minorities in the streets (google “indian grandfather killed by Alabama police”) are the last country that needs to be be giving us moral guidance.
     
    So why the fsck do you keep coming here by the millions? The last thing we need are more whiny foreigners trying to get on the AA gravy train. With 625 million people back home who still aren't potty trained, your own people need you way more than us.

    nuking random Japanese cities

    Nothing random about it at all, definitely all on purpose.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  101. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @Steve Sailer
    I listened to four songs yesterday from the Pretenders album that 65-year-old Chrissie Hynde released last year. Not bad for a senior citizen.

    I saw the Pretenders in April 1980 in Houston, a few feet in front of the bass player, who was dead the next year, along with their great guitarist James Honeyman-Scott.

    http://www.rockinhouston.com/images/00071-bn-12abg5nrtn0862jpg/9823?type=performers&subtype=Years&typeUnid=524&page=1

    I also listened yesterday for the first time to the lyrics fairly closely on the first side of the 1979 Pretenders debut album.

    It's really not a good thing to be a high testosterone heterosexual rock chick because you find yourself attracted to guys who are even more high testosterone than you, such as motorcycle gang felons (as in "Tattooed Love Boys").

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HjXnhT3jXM4

    Pretty interesting that Chrissie then went on to break up the marriage of Sir Ray Davies of the Kinks, as in his "Stop Your Sobbing" (the song that introduced me to the Pretenders in the summer of 1979),

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OGcn15ODltA

    whom I hadn't realized in the 1970s was straight. Sir Ray is kind of a literary genius in the manner of Evelyn Waugh and Stephen Spender.

    Their daughter is considered one of the more annoying activists in England (I forget what her causes are), but I'd cut her some slack considering how volatile her DNA must be.

    She has two girls. The younger one (by Jim Kerr) was trying to be an actress but had twins recently so is now pretty busy with them. The older one is interesting to us because while she’s a big enviro, she is also upset at immigrant misbehavior such as assaulting and raping women, chopping their daughters’ fun parts off, et al and has said so-like Damore, always with lots of buffering foofoo-openly on several YT videos.

    She is a possible asset. She isn’t stupid (her mother isn’t either) but I can see her being a sort of Brenda Walker type. She is also a more attractive woman than her mother, for what that’s worth.

    Apparently she has had emotional problems and talks obliquely of this in the videos.
    Perhaps mum made her take them down, but no matter, I’ve got them backed up….and several other people do too.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  102. anonguy says:
    @Steve Sailer
    Sounds dubious.

    Sounds dubious.

    Sounds too good to be true.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  103. anonguy says:
    @AnotherDad

    Anyway, you guys, with your penchant for assassinating foreigners across the world with drones, nuking random Japanese cities, hunting down and murdering racial minorities in the streets (google “indian grandfather killed by Alabama police”) are the last country that needs to be be giving us moral guidance.
     
    BTW, the "nuking random Japanese cities" was park of a large process of rolling back "the Greater East Asian Co-Prosperity Sphere". Only a small portion of India was ever in Japanese control and handed over to Bose as a puppet state. But large portions of China, Vietnam and Philippines were fully part of the co-prosperity sphere. Generally reviews of the experience have not been positive.

    Only a small portion of India was ever in Japanese control

    Interesting point about India is that they had a formation, the Indian Legion, collaborating with the Nazis and the Indian National Army collaborating with the Japanese during WWII.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anon
    So did France and Russia and especially the Ukraine. I don't think the Poles did though.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  104. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @Steve Sailer
    I listened to four songs yesterday from the Pretenders album that 65-year-old Chrissie Hynde released last year. Not bad for a senior citizen.

    I saw the Pretenders in April 1980 in Houston, a few feet in front of the bass player, who was dead the next year, along with their great guitarist James Honeyman-Scott.

    http://www.rockinhouston.com/images/00071-bn-12abg5nrtn0862jpg/9823?type=performers&subtype=Years&typeUnid=524&page=1

    I also listened yesterday for the first time to the lyrics fairly closely on the first side of the 1979 Pretenders debut album.

    It's really not a good thing to be a high testosterone heterosexual rock chick because you find yourself attracted to guys who are even more high testosterone than you, such as motorcycle gang felons (as in "Tattooed Love Boys").

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HjXnhT3jXM4

    Pretty interesting that Chrissie then went on to break up the marriage of Sir Ray Davies of the Kinks, as in his "Stop Your Sobbing" (the song that introduced me to the Pretenders in the summer of 1979),

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OGcn15ODltA

    whom I hadn't realized in the 1970s was straight. Sir Ray is kind of a literary genius in the manner of Evelyn Waugh and Stephen Spender.

    Their daughter is considered one of the more annoying activists in England (I forget what her causes are), but I'd cut her some slack considering how volatile her DNA must be.

    Stevie Nicks is 68 and Debbie Harry is 72 and both are better looking than Chrissie is now, but then they have both had work done. Christine McVie , not so much a great beauty but a great talent, is back in the news at 73 or 74 with her album with Lindsey Buckingham, and looks at least as young as Chrissie.

    I saw the Mark 1 Pretenders live in Indianapolis and it was a hell of a show. Jimmy was a superb guitar player. I saw them again somewhere in ’84 when Chrissie was married to Kerr, Simple Minds was the opening act and she was pregnant with #2 although no one knew unless you picked up a reference to “my children” in her stage patter. It was the same songs (mostly) and the same style but the razor edge was gone. She is still unquestionably a fine rock and roll front woman but has and never will equal what the original band was. And she knows it.

    The other interesting aspect is that her guitar playing is very basic-just campfire cowboy chord strumming. Has not improved at all. By contrast, Madonna has gotten to be fairly good in the last few years, and she isn’t even really a rock and roll performer as such.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    I did not know Madonna has taken up guitar. Good for her.

    I vaguely recall Mick Jagger playing guitar at the Rolling Stones concert I saw in 1978, but I think it was mostly detrimental to the sound.

    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  105. Anon says: • Disclaimer
    @Kaz
    As an American guy of Indian/Pakistani ethnicity that's worked in a consulting company with a lot of FOBs, H1Bs, offshore teams from India etc..

    I've never heard of caste discussed once..Within my family and dealing with other South-Asian people , growing up I've never heard of the caste system.

    Comments about fair skin definitely.

    The only weird Indian race stuff people around me would speak of would be Patans (Pashtuns), though that's probably just a Pakistani thing.

    I can speak and understand Hindi/Urdu fairly fluently, so it's not like they can discuss it in secret behind my back.

    The only time I've heard about the caste system is on the internet and books. From what I can gather it seems to be a village/small-town politics thing. How could you even keep track of such a thing in a country of a billion people..

    Mexicans pretend they are all one people, but it’s lighter at the top.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  106. @Steve Sailer
    How much is Sundar Pichai as CEO of Google, the subsidiary of Alphabet, a puppet of founders Sergey and Larry, who own much of the voting stock? Did Sundar figure that Susan Wojcicki's strident views against Damore represented Sergey, since Wojcicki was Sergey's landlord in the last century and his sister-in-law for awhile in this one?

    I imagine Sundar wants nothing more than to get back to strategic technical management of his highly talented teams, recruited based (mostly) on merit from all over the world. It seems certain that he spent the days before the firing consulting not just with his direct management team, but also asking Larry and Sergey what the heck he should do. Google can survive for an extended period based just on maintenance of existing assets, but their real long-term success requires a quorum of precisely the kind of person they just fired, white man or not (both talented and free-spirited). The corporate culture of free-wheeling talent and open transparent discussion can’t survive with too high a parasite level, which is presumably why that talent is now raising questions. A number of startup companies I’ve known had their legacy early employees now in power positions (and yes, as it turns out, often they are women who started modestly and went up fast as company success came). They sometimes play a strange role, to put it mildly. It would be interesting to hear from someone who knows these details in google’s case. Why on earth do they allow SJWs so much power? Their company is at stake.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Brutusale
    Because, as Neal Stephenson pointed out 20 years ago and our own lying eyes have since confirmed, startup tech companies are a mess, in the government's eyes, demographically. They need to hire as many sharp minorities/women possible for their non-technical jobs, the evil HR lady being the prime example.

    We can give thanks to Mitch Kapor for this modern paradigm.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  107. @Anonymous
    Stevie Nicks is 68 and Debbie Harry is 72 and both are better looking than Chrissie is now, but then they have both had work done. Christine McVie , not so much a great beauty but a great talent, is back in the news at 73 or 74 with her album with Lindsey Buckingham, and looks at least as young as Chrissie.

    I saw the Mark 1 Pretenders live in Indianapolis and it was a hell of a show. Jimmy was a superb guitar player. I saw them again somewhere in '84 when Chrissie was married to Kerr, Simple Minds was the opening act and she was pregnant with #2 although no one knew unless you picked up a reference to "my children" in her stage patter. It was the same songs (mostly) and the same style but the razor edge was gone. She is still unquestionably a fine rock and roll front woman but has and never will equal what the original band was. And she knows it.

    The other interesting aspect is that her guitar playing is very basic-just campfire cowboy chord strumming. Has not improved at all. By contrast, Madonna has gotten to be fairly good in the last few years, and she isn't even really a rock and roll performer as such.

    I did not know Madonna has taken up guitar. Good for her.

    I vaguely recall Mick Jagger playing guitar at the Rolling Stones concert I saw in 1978, but I think it was mostly detrimental to the sound.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  108. benjaminl says:
    @Anonymous
    Let's not forget your country was built upon invading, murdering and raping your way across North America. While your cousins did the same to South America.

    Again, I'm no SJW, but it irritates me when I see Westerners acting holier than thou. Your people were the single biggest mass murderers in history, far worse than the Mongols, Huns and Arabs. Deal with it. And stop yammering on about how unjust and evil other societies are, it's really creepy.

    I’m not sure if you’ve noticed, Anonymous, but our Western societies are currently being inundated with people (such as, perhaps, yourself) who, as an expression of gratitude for being permitted to live and work in societies that in every way are more successful than their own, immediately start criticizing and complaining about all the ways that the West has sinned against the world.

    So, if you don’t like hearing us criticize other societies (and we criticize our own societies too; it’s part of the Western tradition of free inquiry, another gift to the world), I have a proposal for you.

    First, you all go back to your own homelands and make your way there as best you can.

    Then, you’ll no longer have to suffer the unpleasantness of hearing our unflattering opinions of your societies.

    Seems like a win-win for all of us.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Well if are going back to first things, let's not forget who came to whose country 400 years ago. Sans English imperialism, India would have had a shot at developing indigenous modernization along the lines of Japan. Then we wouldn't have to come to the West hat in hand.

    Granted, Indian IQs are nowhere near Japanese IQs, but the Indian elite is numerous enough and intelligent enough that it could have achieved a reasonably good outcome. Plus it is possible that Japanese IQs have benefited from two centuries' worth of Flynn effect, education and good nutrition.

    And don't let yourself be fooled into thinking Indians have to listen to western sanctimony only when they live abroad. American missionaries spend most of their day inculcating self-loathing and shame in Indians, while promoting secessionist movements.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  109. Eagle Eye says:
    @Dot Not Feather
    There is a lot of confusion going on about caste as shown in EagleEyes comment.

    There are two Sanskrit words that get translated as caste -- varna and jati. Varna is the four-fold hierarchical classification mentioned in the Hindu scriptures: Priests, Warriors, Farmers/Merchants, and Laborers. Shudra is the fourth and lowest of these. Shudras are restricted in certain ritual ways. For instance they cannot learn the Vedas, enter the inner sancta of temples, wear the sacred thread etc.

    A Jati is an endogamous group with particular religious, dietary and social customs in common. Often (but not always) it will have a hereditary occupation. While ideologically it is a Hindu idea, in practice there are also Muslim, Christian, and Jain etc jatis. Jatis can be ranked hierarchically but the exact position can vary from region to region and even village to village.

    The thing is, varna doesn't actually exist as a social concept anymore (in fact if it ever did.) except perhaps amongst the Brahmins (priests) who are a varna and (many) jatis. Because the center of gravity in Hinduism has shifted to the Puranas and Tantras etc. and hardly anyone practices the Vedic rituals in their original form, most jatis could be classified as Shudras but it would certainly not mean they were oppressed or "lower" in the social sense. E.g. the Patels of Gujarat, the Jats of the Punjab and Reddys of Andhra Pradesh are all jatis that do not wear the sacred thread or learn Vedas but are the socially and economically dominant groups of their areas. Conversely, Brahmins particularly the orthodox ones might have high social value but they tend to be quite poor because traditionally they lived off of royal patronage which doesn't exist anymore in democratic India.

    The discrimination that you read about takes place at the jati level. The most well-known example is untouchability amongst the "Scheduled castes" as the Indian constitution calls them or Dalits as the politically correct term is now. The aboriginal "Scheduled Tribes" are often lumped in with them but I can tell you that where my family is from if you called a tribal a Dalit he would attempt to kill you on the spot for the grave insult to his honour. Another example is why there are so many Tamil Brahmins like Pichai and Khosla in the West. Back in the 50's/60's there was a virulent anti-Brahmin movement in Tamil Nadu and to lesser extent in other parts of South India instigated by socially middle ranking but economically powerful castes who rebranded themselves as Dravidians for historically dubious reasons.

    So if I can give some friendly advice, while it is surely satisfying to point out the hypocrisy of Pichai types, may I point out these "Dems are the real racists" type arguments are a tactical error because very few of you know enough to pull it of as EagleEye shows and more importantly the whole premise is wrong.

    A jati is nothing more than an extended family. (literally because of the endogamy and inbreeding.) it is right and proper to prefer ones own family and want to associate the most with ones own family.
    I went from SJWish to alt-right when I realized that White people are not insidiously plotting to keep me down trying to take care of their own extended families. It is right and proper for them to do so and not at all censurable. Sure bigotry can take place in the name of Whiteness just as it can in the name of caste (or Blackness, or Jewishness or...) but it should be taken on a case by case basis and not automatically assumed or treated as if hatred was the whole purpose of some kind of "system"

    Now I shall attempt to answer the questions,


    What is the distribution of Hindu castes among Google employees?

    What percentage of Google staff are Shudra (lowest caste)? How many “Googlers” come from “Scheduled Castes” or “Scheduled Tribes” (i.e. underclass groups)?

     

    It is probably tilted towards the upper castes simply because that's where more of the intelligence and ability is as with Ashkenazis etc. However if anything there is probably more diversity than in India because there is more nepotism and other corruption there.


    Is Pichai himself an “Untouchable”?

     

    No he is a Tamil Brahmin.


    Do higher-caste Indian women at Google date lower-caste men?

     

    As another commentator wrote, most probably don't date. A good number are probably married (and marriage is where caste considerations really come into play.) The ones that do, probably date indiscriminately including with non-Indians. Well, apart from the standard female types of discrimination of course.


    Do Untouchables at Google mix smoothly with senior management?

    Does anyone keep track of caste? Why not? Are there lists secretly passed around to keep out caste impostors? (“She is actually only an X from Y state.”)
     

     I doubt if the types at Google care very much. (Their mothers might.) Another thing you have to bear in mind is a lot of that kind of Indian grew up in big cities and went to English medium often Roman Catholic schools. So they imbibed a lot radical lefty notions before they even set foot over here.

    There are two Sanskrit words that get translated as caste — varna and jati. Varna is the four-fold hierarchical classification mentioned in the Hindu scriptures: Priests, Warriors, Farmers/Merchants, and Laborers. Shudra is the fourth and lowest of these. Shudras are restricted in certain ritual ways. For instance they cannot learn the Vedas, enter the inner sancta of temples, wear the sacred thread etc.

    NOTICE SOMETHING? Detailed discussion of four varna, but no mention of “Untouchables” who are OUTSIDE the four varna, i.e. below Shudra.

    Untouchables can make up as much as HALF the population in some areas. They are not permitted to physically touch varna members, may be prohibited from drinking from the village well, etc.

    Of course, the varna members have not always so reticent when it comes to sexual relations with untouchable women. Religious cleansing rituals are available to restore the man’s purity.

    Read More
    • Replies: @BB753
    I think French anthropologist Louis Dumont had an answer for the question about where the untouchables stood in the original varna system. I seem to recall (as I read the book two decades ago) that either there were no untouchables under the old varna system and so dalits were a result of the newer jati system where they ended up performing unhygienic chores which made them impure (many religious practices spring ultimately from health considerations, that is, pure and impure realy mean healthy and unhealthy) or that they weren't included at all in hinduist society.
    The book, Homo Hierarchicus, is well worth reading:
    https://www.amazon.com/dp/0226169634/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_awdb_jD4JzbNKXMCCB
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  110. anonymous says: • Disclaimer

    Are there different curry vendors around Google offices to serve caste tastes? Does Tamil like same tastes as Gujarat? English subculture includes many curry shops and older English remember the Raj or family lore with mixed fondness. How is American caste stratification different?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anon
    California being California, they probably all live on tacos.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  111. @MG
    Most Indians in American tech companies are drawn from the higher castes (Brahmins, Kayasthas, Banias). That is because back home these communities emphasize academic achievement and they have historically had an advantage over other communities.

    Having worked in Silicon Valley and interacted with fellow Indians, caste seldom enters into professional or social interaction. (I'm generalizing, of course.) Most Indians in America are drawn from urban areas where caste dynamics are diminishing by the day. Where caste still plays a major role is in marriage. I have many issues with Indians in the Valley but caste discrimination in the workplace ain't one of them.

    If they bathed, that’d be huge progress.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anon
    That's yourself you're smelling. Make sure to add some scented soap to your next shopping list.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  112. @Steve Sailer
    I listened to four songs yesterday from the Pretenders album that 65-year-old Chrissie Hynde released last year. Not bad for a senior citizen.

    I saw the Pretenders in April 1980 in Houston, a few feet in front of the bass player, who was dead the next year, along with their great guitarist James Honeyman-Scott.

    http://www.rockinhouston.com/images/00071-bn-12abg5nrtn0862jpg/9823?type=performers&subtype=Years&typeUnid=524&page=1

    I also listened yesterday for the first time to the lyrics fairly closely on the first side of the 1979 Pretenders debut album.

    It's really not a good thing to be a high testosterone heterosexual rock chick because you find yourself attracted to guys who are even more high testosterone than you, such as motorcycle gang felons (as in "Tattooed Love Boys").

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HjXnhT3jXM4

    Pretty interesting that Chrissie then went on to break up the marriage of Sir Ray Davies of the Kinks, as in his "Stop Your Sobbing" (the song that introduced me to the Pretenders in the summer of 1979),

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OGcn15ODltA

    whom I hadn't realized in the 1970s was straight. Sir Ray is kind of a literary genius in the manner of Evelyn Waugh and Stephen Spender.

    Their daughter is considered one of the more annoying activists in England (I forget what her causes are), but I'd cut her some slack considering how volatile her DNA must be.

    Their daughter is considered one of the more annoying activists in England (I forget what her causes are)

    Mainly environmental, I think. She got her name in The Guardian a few years ago when she was part of an anti-fracking protest.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    She superglued her hands to those of a 20-years-older man (described as a 'boyfriend') around a gate to block a company from bringing in fracking equipment in a town called Balcombe.

    http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014/02/24/article-2566846-04C3EC3E00000514-26_634x453.jpg
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  113. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @Steve Sailer
    Sounds dubious.

    Here’s someone else who corroborates what his name means

    http://www.searchindia.com/2013/03/13/google-picks-indian-to-bust-apples-balls/

    I know plenty of Brahmins and I’ve never met one named “beggar”.

    Read More
    • Replies: @rec1man
    Pichai does mean beggar in Tamil

    perhaps to ward off the evil eye

    earlier generations of Tamil Brahmins, some had the name Kuppu-swamy and Kuppai means trash in Tamil

    per my understanding , if a couple had loss of infants, for the next child they would give a lowly name to the next child , to ward off the evil eye
    , @rec1man
    To ward off evil eye, if an infant died , his next sibling was given a lowly name,
    like Pichai ( beggar ) or Kuppa ( trash ), this was common among tamil brahmins before modern medicine, before 75 years ago
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  114. @Anonymous
    Let's not forget your country was built upon invading, murdering and raping your way across North America. While your cousins did the same to South America.

    Again, I'm no SJW, but it irritates me when I see Westerners acting holier than thou. Your people were the single biggest mass murderers in history, far worse than the Mongols, Huns and Arabs. Deal with it. And stop yammering on about how unjust and evil other societies are, it's really creepy.

    Your people were the single biggest mass murderers in history, far worse than the Mongols, Huns and Arabs.

    Stop spreading lies.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  115. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @AnotherDad

    Anyway, you guys, with your penchant for assassinating foreigners across the world with drones, nuking random Japanese cities, hunting down and murdering racial minorities in the streets (google “indian grandfather killed by Alabama police”) are the last country that needs to be be giving us moral guidance.
     
    Right. We American white guys really suck. Terrible people. And yet ... Indians keep bailing on India and flocking over her to sponge off what we've built. Hmm.

    No, I didn’t say that. I am broad minded enough to appreciate the achievements of the white man throughout history. My Hindu ancestors have also been equally respectful of the abilities of the Greeks.

    What gets my goat is you people thinking you’re somehow holier than we are. Blatant example of pot calling the kettle …

    India gave full legal rights to the so-called untouchables way back in the 1940s. America segregated Blacks well into the sixties. And south Africa even later.

    All things considered, after adjusting for overall national standard of living, it’s probably much better being an untouchable in India than a black man in America. At least an untouchable in India can move to the city and no one would know his caste and most would not care.

    Read More
    • Replies: @namae nanka

    India gave full legal rights to the so-called untouchables way back in the 1940s. America segregated Blacks well into the sixties. And south Africa even later.
     
    The 'so-called untouchables' don't come close to the criminality that is displayed by the blacks. Too bad that the 'so-called untouchables' didn't end up as slaves in America instead of them.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  116. BB753 says:
    @Eagle Eye

    There are two Sanskrit words that get translated as caste — varna and jati. Varna is the four-fold hierarchical classification mentioned in the Hindu scriptures: Priests, Warriors, Farmers/Merchants, and Laborers. Shudra is the fourth and lowest of these. Shudras are restricted in certain ritual ways. For instance they cannot learn the Vedas, enter the inner sancta of temples, wear the sacred thread etc.
     
    NOTICE SOMETHING? Detailed discussion of four varna, but no mention of "Untouchables" who are OUTSIDE the four varna, i.e. below Shudra.

    Untouchables can make up as much as HALF the population in some areas. They are not permitted to physically touch varna members, may be prohibited from drinking from the village well, etc.

    Of course, the varna members have not always so reticent when it comes to sexual relations with untouchable women. Religious cleansing rituals are available to restore the man's purity.

    I think French anthropologist Louis Dumont had an answer for the question about where the untouchables stood in the original varna system. I seem to recall (as I read the book two decades ago) that either there were no untouchables under the old varna system and so dalits were a result of the newer jati system where they ended up performing unhygienic chores which made them impure (many religious practices spring ultimately from health considerations, that is, pure and impure realy mean healthy and unhealthy) or that they weren’t included at all in hinduist society.
    The book, Homo Hierarchicus, is well worth reading:

    https://www.amazon.com/dp/0226169634/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_awdb_jD4JzbNKXMCCB

    Read More
    • Replies: @BB753
    Where I said Hinduist society I should have said Vedic society, sorry.
    , @BB753
    Where I said Hinduist society I should have said Vedic society, sorry.
    , @Eagle Eye
    Short summary of caste notions in 2017 - feel free to correct:

    (1) The terms Brahmin and Untouchables (insert your favorite euphemism HERE) have ongoing vitality in 2017. Brahmin and Untouchables are subject to significant discrimination at the hands of other groups.

    (2) As another commenter noted, Pichai as an Aryan Brahmin would be banned from teaching at a state school in Tamil Nadu.

    Note that there is an ETHNIC angle here: Brahmin in Tamil Nadu are apparently still viewed as Northern invaders (although they have been speaking Tamil for at least centuries). Other Tamils are referred to as "Dravidian" (Southern natives).

    (3) Shudra is also a term that Shudra and non-Shudra seem to use to refer to the laboring classes. Some Shudra can be quite wealthy.

    (4) Jati (countless endogamous sub-castes, often specializing in certain trades) make up the middle ground of Indian society.

    (5) Lastly, there are so-called scheduled tribes who are not part of mainstream Indian society and appear to be descendants of older population groups.

    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  117. @anonymous
    "Another example is why there are so many Tamil Brahmins like Pichai and Khosla in the West. Back in the 50′s/60′s there was a virulent anti-Brahmin movement..."

    and

    "Another thing you have to bear in mind is a lot of that kind of Indian grew up in big cities and went to English medium often Roman Catholic schools."


    I was once a visiting prof at an IIT. One of the things that surprised me was how many (most?) of the students had gone to English-speaking "missionary schools" their entire lives. Perhaps that had an effect on the role of caste in their lives, or at least how they discussed it in their professional lives? Would anyone know what the percentage of IIT students with a missionary school background is?

    Also, the department expected near 100% placement overseas; for this department, at least, that was almost the point of going to IIT (except for a few who had family issues).

    I was also a bit surprised at how many students seemed to look down on their professors. One faculty member told me it was because the students were used to dealing with servants and somewhat put their teachers in that category. Besides, who were these losers who couldn't get jobs overseas?

    What is your appraisal of the quality of the students?

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  118. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @benjaminl
    I'm not sure if you've noticed, Anonymous, but our Western societies are currently being inundated with people (such as, perhaps, yourself) who, as an expression of gratitude for being permitted to live and work in societies that in every way are more successful than their own, immediately start criticizing and complaining about all the ways that the West has sinned against the world.

    So, if you don't like hearing us criticize other societies (and we criticize our own societies too; it's part of the Western tradition of free inquiry, another gift to the world), I have a proposal for you.

    First, you all go back to your own homelands and make your way there as best you can.

    Then, you'll no longer have to suffer the unpleasantness of hearing our unflattering opinions of your societies.

    Seems like a win-win for all of us.

    Well if are going back to first things, let’s not forget who came to whose country 400 years ago. Sans English imperialism, India would have had a shot at developing indigenous modernization along the lines of Japan. Then we wouldn’t have to come to the West hat in hand.

    Granted, Indian IQs are nowhere near Japanese IQs, but the Indian elite is numerous enough and intelligent enough that it could have achieved a reasonably good outcome. Plus it is possible that Japanese IQs have benefited from two centuries’ worth of Flynn effect, education and good nutrition.

    And don’t let yourself be fooled into thinking Indians have to listen to western sanctimony only when they live abroad. American missionaries spend most of their day inculcating self-loathing and shame in Indians, while promoting secessionist movements.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Autochthon
    If India were do damnef superiour, it would have defended itself successfully from invasion.

    You know, the way actually superior civilisations of Europe have for all if history. We beat back the Persians, the Mongols, and the Arabs. Hell, my people were humiliating yours under Alexander's leadership long before the British arrived in India.

    Yours is the whining of a loser. You resent and rage because you know – and it is empirically indisputable – you are an also-ran.

    Take a bath, already.
    , @Brutusale
    You didn't have to come to the West hat in hand. It's the Current Year, and you've got everything you need to create your own destiny--in India.

    The fact that you're in America instead of remaining back home or emigrating to some other industrialized country gives lie to your every statement. You do know that all the cerebral all-stars from India could have stayed home and erected a towering indigenous tech edifice instead of coming here and working for the white man's company, right?

    America (and Americans) are not perfect by any measure. But the fact that we allow with little fuss, if not in fact welcome, the polyglot collection of makers, takers and fakers that washes up on our shores makes our reaction to attitudes like yours a bit sharp.

    BTW, the Limey tossers came for us twice in 40 years back during this country's youth. We sent them limping home. Don't whine to us if the 15th Century desi wasn't up to the task.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  119. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @englishmike

    Their daughter is considered one of the more annoying activists in England (I forget what her causes are)
     
    Mainly environmental, I think. She got her name in The Guardian a few years ago when she was part of an anti-fracking protest.

    She superglued her hands to those of a 20-years-older man (described as a ‘boyfriend’) around a gate to block a company from bringing in fracking equipment in a town called Balcombe.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  120. @Kaz
    As an American guy of Indian/Pakistani ethnicity that's worked in a consulting company with a lot of FOBs, H1Bs, offshore teams from India etc..

    I've never heard of caste discussed once..Within my family and dealing with other South-Asian people , growing up I've never heard of the caste system.

    Comments about fair skin definitely.

    The only weird Indian race stuff people around me would speak of would be Patans (Pashtuns), though that's probably just a Pakistani thing.

    I can speak and understand Hindi/Urdu fairly fluently, so it's not like they can discuss it in secret behind my back.

    The only time I've heard about the caste system is on the internet and books. From what I can gather it seems to be a village/small-town politics thing. How could you even keep track of such a thing in a country of a billion people..

    I can speak and understand Hindi/Urdu fairly fluently, so it’s not like they can discuss it in secret behind my back.

    If they were to discuss it in secret and behind your back it is irrelevant how well you can understand the language they use, unless you suppose that in English “behind my back” means literally “where I can hear them”.

    And, Kaz, I don’t mean to poke my nose into a private matter; but I wonder why, in one of your other replies, you explain that your parents are Muslim without letting on whether you are too.

    I do hope that doesn’t sound like an “islamophobic” comment.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  121. res says:
    @Eagle Eye

    Had [Pichai] not fired Damore, many of his senior managers would have walked out on him, and he might not have been able to continue as CEO.
     
    Right.

    All the courtiers who had clawed their way to the top would totally "walk out on" their CEO over a question of ideological principle at the drop of a hat.

    File this with all of the people who were going to leave the US if Trump was elected.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  122. @JoeT55
    Nothing to see here, these are not the caste members you are looking for. Move along.

    Undoubtedly those Indians who swear caste doesn’t exist anymore or is only rural protest too much but my point was that it won’t do to look at the Rig Veda etc. to understand it as a social concept today. And yes the rank hypocrisy of those who benefit from it and complain when Whites allegedly discriminate is palpable but contra whataboutists on the right it is nothing abnormal. People should prefer their own however that is defined as they always have since our species began. All talents are not equally distributed. And all societies have hierarchies because of that. We all should be fighting to give White Americans the freedom to discuss and act in their own interests without fear of harassment or thinking there is something to feel guilty about.

    I was at a dinner party where people started moaning about Trump and I said ” The first duty of White Americans is to look after their own many of whom are hurting badly right now. Because they are generous they probably will help the third world but you will have to get in line behind those who have a higher priority claim on that generosity than you.”

    Read More
    • Replies: @Opinionator
    I was at a dinner party where people started moaning about Trump and I said ” The first duty of White Americans is to look after their own many of whom are hurting badly right now. Because they are generous they probably will help the third world but you will have to get in line behind those who have a higher priority claim on that generosity.

    How did others in the party respond? Where did the discussion go from there?
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  123. BB753 says:
    @BB753
    I think French anthropologist Louis Dumont had an answer for the question about where the untouchables stood in the original varna system. I seem to recall (as I read the book two decades ago) that either there were no untouchables under the old varna system and so dalits were a result of the newer jati system where they ended up performing unhygienic chores which made them impure (many religious practices spring ultimately from health considerations, that is, pure and impure realy mean healthy and unhealthy) or that they weren't included at all in hinduist society.
    The book, Homo Hierarchicus, is well worth reading:
    https://www.amazon.com/dp/0226169634/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_awdb_jD4JzbNKXMCCB

    Where I said Hinduist society I should have said Vedic society, sorry.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  124. BB753 says:
    @BB753
    I think French anthropologist Louis Dumont had an answer for the question about where the untouchables stood in the original varna system. I seem to recall (as I read the book two decades ago) that either there were no untouchables under the old varna system and so dalits were a result of the newer jati system where they ended up performing unhygienic chores which made them impure (many religious practices spring ultimately from health considerations, that is, pure and impure realy mean healthy and unhealthy) or that they weren't included at all in hinduist society.
    The book, Homo Hierarchicus, is well worth reading:
    https://www.amazon.com/dp/0226169634/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_awdb_jD4JzbNKXMCCB

    Where I said Hinduist society I should have said Vedic society, sorry.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  125. @Anonymous
    Well if are going back to first things, let's not forget who came to whose country 400 years ago. Sans English imperialism, India would have had a shot at developing indigenous modernization along the lines of Japan. Then we wouldn't have to come to the West hat in hand.

    Granted, Indian IQs are nowhere near Japanese IQs, but the Indian elite is numerous enough and intelligent enough that it could have achieved a reasonably good outcome. Plus it is possible that Japanese IQs have benefited from two centuries' worth of Flynn effect, education and good nutrition.

    And don't let yourself be fooled into thinking Indians have to listen to western sanctimony only when they live abroad. American missionaries spend most of their day inculcating self-loathing and shame in Indians, while promoting secessionist movements.

    If India were do damnef superiour, it would have defended itself successfully from invasion.

    You know, the way actually superior civilisations of Europe have for all if history. We beat back the Persians, the Mongols, and the Arabs. Hell, my people were humiliating yours under Alexander’s leadership long before the British arrived in India.

    Yours is the whining of a loser. You resent and rage because you know – and it is empirically indisputable – you are an also-ran.

    Take a bath, already.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  126. Eagle Eye says:
    @rec1man
    For many castes, last name = caste name

    Patel = Patel Caste
    Reddy = Reddy Caste

    for many castes, there is a list of surnames to use
    Khatri merchant caste in Punjab has surnames = Kapoor, Chopra, Malhotra , Khanna,
    Nair Landlord caste in kerala has surnames = Nair, Menon, Pillai, Kurup , Nambiar

    For most hindus, the first name is a hindu god or goddess ; and for upper castes, the first name is very sanskritic

    For many castes, last name = caste name

    Interestingly, the Indian government (I think federal) has been working hard to suppress surnames that express caste (e.g. Iyer), e.g. by issuing personal status documents with these tell-tale signs omitted.

    Read More
    • Replies: @rec1man
    I am an Iyer, My grandfather used the Iyer surname ; My father dropped the Iyer surname , bcos Iyers were being assaulted by Tamil Dravidians

    In Tamil Nadu State, caste surnames are discouraged - violently for brahmin surnames ; in other states impossible to do so ; Caste surnames like Reddy, Patel, Nair, Yadav, may be around for decades / centuries
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  127. Kevin C. says:
    @Jus' Sayin'...
    IIRC, in the novel "Shogun", Japanese peasants were depicted using the term "eta" for those in shunned occupations like honey bucket men.

    Burakumin“, 部落民, is the more euphemistic/”PC” term, literally meaning “village people” or “hamlet dwellers.” An older, harsher term is, as you note, eta, 穢多, literally meaning “much defilement” or “an abundance of filth”, Also, historically, another group whose descendants form part of the modern “burakumin” include those historically called hinin, 非人, literally “non-human”, which appears to have been a variable appellation mainly covering ex-convicts and vagrants.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  128. Kevin C. says:
    @Dot Not Feather
    There is a lot of confusion going on about caste as shown in EagleEyes comment.

    There are two Sanskrit words that get translated as caste -- varna and jati. Varna is the four-fold hierarchical classification mentioned in the Hindu scriptures: Priests, Warriors, Farmers/Merchants, and Laborers. Shudra is the fourth and lowest of these. Shudras are restricted in certain ritual ways. For instance they cannot learn the Vedas, enter the inner sancta of temples, wear the sacred thread etc.

    A Jati is an endogamous group with particular religious, dietary and social customs in common. Often (but not always) it will have a hereditary occupation. While ideologically it is a Hindu idea, in practice there are also Muslim, Christian, and Jain etc jatis. Jatis can be ranked hierarchically but the exact position can vary from region to region and even village to village.

    The thing is, varna doesn't actually exist as a social concept anymore (in fact if it ever did.) except perhaps amongst the Brahmins (priests) who are a varna and (many) jatis. Because the center of gravity in Hinduism has shifted to the Puranas and Tantras etc. and hardly anyone practices the Vedic rituals in their original form, most jatis could be classified as Shudras but it would certainly not mean they were oppressed or "lower" in the social sense. E.g. the Patels of Gujarat, the Jats of the Punjab and Reddys of Andhra Pradesh are all jatis that do not wear the sacred thread or learn Vedas but are the socially and economically dominant groups of their areas. Conversely, Brahmins particularly the orthodox ones might have high social value but they tend to be quite poor because traditionally they lived off of royal patronage which doesn't exist anymore in democratic India.

    The discrimination that you read about takes place at the jati level. The most well-known example is untouchability amongst the "Scheduled castes" as the Indian constitution calls them or Dalits as the politically correct term is now. The aboriginal "Scheduled Tribes" are often lumped in with them but I can tell you that where my family is from if you called a tribal a Dalit he would attempt to kill you on the spot for the grave insult to his honour. Another example is why there are so many Tamil Brahmins like Pichai and Khosla in the West. Back in the 50's/60's there was a virulent anti-Brahmin movement in Tamil Nadu and to lesser extent in other parts of South India instigated by socially middle ranking but economically powerful castes who rebranded themselves as Dravidians for historically dubious reasons.

    So if I can give some friendly advice, while it is surely satisfying to point out the hypocrisy of Pichai types, may I point out these "Dems are the real racists" type arguments are a tactical error because very few of you know enough to pull it of as EagleEye shows and more importantly the whole premise is wrong.

    A jati is nothing more than an extended family. (literally because of the endogamy and inbreeding.) it is right and proper to prefer ones own family and want to associate the most with ones own family.
    I went from SJWish to alt-right when I realized that White people are not insidiously plotting to keep me down trying to take care of their own extended families. It is right and proper for them to do so and not at all censurable. Sure bigotry can take place in the name of Whiteness just as it can in the name of caste (or Blackness, or Jewishness or...) but it should be taken on a case by case basis and not automatically assumed or treated as if hatred was the whole purpose of some kind of "system"

    Now I shall attempt to answer the questions,


    What is the distribution of Hindu castes among Google employees?

    What percentage of Google staff are Shudra (lowest caste)? How many “Googlers” come from “Scheduled Castes” or “Scheduled Tribes” (i.e. underclass groups)?

     

    It is probably tilted towards the upper castes simply because that's where more of the intelligence and ability is as with Ashkenazis etc. However if anything there is probably more diversity than in India because there is more nepotism and other corruption there.


    Is Pichai himself an “Untouchable”?

     

    No he is a Tamil Brahmin.


    Do higher-caste Indian women at Google date lower-caste men?

     

    As another commentator wrote, most probably don't date. A good number are probably married (and marriage is where caste considerations really come into play.) The ones that do, probably date indiscriminately including with non-Indians. Well, apart from the standard female types of discrimination of course.


    Do Untouchables at Google mix smoothly with senior management?

    Does anyone keep track of caste? Why not? Are there lists secretly passed around to keep out caste impostors? (“She is actually only an X from Y state.”)
     

     I doubt if the types at Google care very much. (Their mothers might.) Another thing you have to bear in mind is a lot of that kind of Indian grew up in big cities and went to English medium often Roman Catholic schools. So they imbibed a lot radical lefty notions before they even set foot over here.

    A jati is nothing more than an extended family. (literally because of the endogamy and inbreeding.) it is right and proper to prefer ones own family and want to associate the most with ones own family.

    Associate with, perhaps, but not marry. Whereas the DNA evidence shows that jati have been mostly inbreeding for at least ~1500 years, possibly longer.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Dot Not Feather
    True. IMO Whites (atleast west of the Hajnal line) should try it a little. We know too much inbreeding is bad for you but too much outbreeding has led to the pathological altruism that has left the West prone before invaders. While it was never as strict as in India of course, until recently I suppose most Americans would have agreed you should marry someone of the same background as yourself. Woke rightists should support and build up that sentiment rather than try and one-up the radicals.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  129. Kevin C. says:
    @AnotherDad

    There’s a great deal of misunderstanding and ignorance in the West on the topic.
     
    Well of course there's "ignorance", it's another culture.

    But the picture of "caste" in the West is basically accurate in the essentials. It's thousands of what were (there is some modern breakdown) endogamous groups in a stratified hierarchy. Feudalism--with serfdom and slavery--on steroids.

    And it is unique. The only things roughly akin to it in the West are the Jews and gypsies--endogamous communities that tightly policed against relations with the goyim to keep themselves separate. Most primitive societies have tribes or clans. But every other civilized society is highly mixed with significant gene flow across social classes. There is no other true caste society like India.

    Westerners who have learned about the caste system--sure they are "ignorant" about the details, but they get the essential picture.

    And it is unique. The only things roughly akin to it in the West are the Jews and gypsies–endogamous communities that tightly policed against relations with the goyim to keep themselves separate.

    One also cannot forget that the Romani languages are classified by linguists as Indo-Aryan, and current evidence, historical, linguistic, and genetic, indicates the Gypsies migrated out of the Indian subcontinent some time between the 6th and 11th century. Quoth Wikipedia:

    They originated in northwest regions of the Indian subcontinent and left sometime between the 6th and 11th century to work in Middle Eastern courts of their own volition, or as slaves. A small number of nomadic groups were cut off from their return to the subcontinent by conflicts and moved west, eventually settling in Europe, Turkey and North Africa via Iran.

    One can also read about how at least some of their insularity relates to religious purity laws with roots in South Asian traditions.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  130. Eagle Eye says:
    @BB753
    I think French anthropologist Louis Dumont had an answer for the question about where the untouchables stood in the original varna system. I seem to recall (as I read the book two decades ago) that either there were no untouchables under the old varna system and so dalits were a result of the newer jati system where they ended up performing unhygienic chores which made them impure (many religious practices spring ultimately from health considerations, that is, pure and impure realy mean healthy and unhealthy) or that they weren't included at all in hinduist society.
    The book, Homo Hierarchicus, is well worth reading:
    https://www.amazon.com/dp/0226169634/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_awdb_jD4JzbNKXMCCB

    Short summary of caste notions in 2017 – feel free to correct:

    (1) The terms Brahmin and Untouchables (insert your favorite euphemism HERE) have ongoing vitality in 2017. Brahmin and Untouchables are subject to significant discrimination at the hands of other groups.

    (2) As another commenter noted, Pichai as an Aryan Brahmin would be banned from teaching at a state school in Tamil Nadu.

    Note that there is an ETHNIC angle here: Brahmin in Tamil Nadu are apparently still viewed as Northern invaders (although they have been speaking Tamil for at least centuries). Other Tamils are referred to as “Dravidian” (Southern natives).

    (3) Shudra is also a term that Shudra and non-Shudra seem to use to refer to the laboring classes. Some Shudra can be quite wealthy.

    (4) Jati (countless endogamous sub-castes, often specializing in certain trades) make up the middle ground of Indian society.

    (5) Lastly, there are so-called scheduled tribes who are not part of mainstream Indian society and appear to be descendants of older population groups.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Dot Not Feather
    @EagleEye I responded to one of your earlier posts but Unz Review ate it I think.


    (1) The terms Brahmin and Untouchables (insert your favorite euphemism HERE) have ongoing vitality in 2017. Brahmin and Untouchables are subject to significant discrimination at the hands of other groups.

     

    Yes to the first part. To the second, sometimes they are the discriminators, sometimes the discriminatees, and sometimes just bystanders to those dynamics between other groups.


    (3) Shudra is also a term that Shudra and non-Shudra seem to use to refer to the laboring classes. Some Shudra can be quite wealthy.

     

    Shudra is not an operative socio-political term at all. An Indian will say I am a Patel, or I am a Nayar or I am a Jat, Dalit, Khatri etc. but no one is going to say I am a Shudra. There is no solidarity or sense of common origin amongst the various jatis that could be classified thus. The term has limited application in the religious realm but barely even there.

    And some of the jatis mentioned above are not just wealthy but socio-politically powerful. For instance Patels and Jats are the dominant land owners in their respective regions.


    (4) Jati (countless endogamous sub-castes, often specializing in certain trades) make up the middle ground of Indian society.

     

    Not just the middle. Even amongst the Brahmins jati and sectarian difference trump all but the vaguest sense of pan-Indian identity. Or take the Mahars of Maharashtra. These are the people of B.R. Ambedekar the first president of India and the founder of the Dalit civil rights movement. The Mahars have twelve different subgroups all traditionally endogamous and ranking each other at different levels.


    (5) Lastly, there are so-called scheduled tribes who are not part of mainstream Indian society and appear to be descendants of older population groups.

     

    Older groups certainly but some have been in contact with Hindu society for a long time and have intermixed culturally and genetically to various degrees. Others only made "first contact" in the 19-20th centuries.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  131. @Kevin C.

    A jati is nothing more than an extended family. (literally because of the endogamy and inbreeding.) it is right and proper to prefer ones own family and want to associate the most with ones own family.
     
    Associate with, perhaps, but not marry. Whereas the DNA evidence shows that jati have been mostly inbreeding for at least ~1500 years, possibly longer.

    True. IMO Whites (atleast west of the Hajnal line) should try it a little. We know too much inbreeding is bad for you but too much outbreeding has led to the pathological altruism that has left the West prone before invaders. While it was never as strict as in India of course, until recently I suppose most Americans would have agreed you should marry someone of the same background as yourself. Woke rightists should support and build up that sentiment rather than try and one-up the radicals.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  132. Eagle Eye says:
    @epebble
    This is from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socio_Economic_and_Caste_Census_2011

    Obviously, it doesn't tell anything about U.S. , much less Google, since there is no corresponding census. But common sense would suggest there would be a predominance of higher castes since most of the immigration from India is employment based (initial anchor immigrant); Since, the family unification immigrants would be based on the original immigrant, it will be mostly from similar demographic. Google probably selects from above 95+ percentile on the bell curve for the tech jobs which would probably imply a similar 95+% share of higher castes.


    Distribution of Population of each Religion by Caste Categories
    Religion/Caste SCs STs OBCs General class/Others
    Hinduism 22.2% 9% 42.8% 26%
    Islam 0.8% 0.5% 39.2% 59.5%
    Christianity 9.0% 32.8% 24.8% 33.3%
    Sikhism 30.7% 0.9% 22.4% 46.1%
    Jainism 0.0% 2.6% 3.0% 94.3%
    Buddhism 89.5% 7.4% 0.4% 2.7%
    Zoroastrianism 0.0% 15.9% 13.7% 70.4%
    Others 2.6% 82.5% 6.25 8.7%
    Total 19.7% 8.5% 41.1% 30.8%

    Interesting stats – thanks.

    A little suspicious that 15.9% of Parsees (“Zoroastrians”) are shown as belonging to “scheduled tribes.”

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  133. Dave Pinsen says: • Website
    @googler
    Googler here. Long-time reader, first time writer.

    Sundar Pichai is really not a bad guy and not an SJW. He initially did not want to fire Damore, but as has now been publicly reported in Recode, full SJWs like Susan Wojcicki of Youtube (and other rank and filers) pushed the issue.

    Fundamentally there were no good options for Sundar. Had he not fired Damore, many of his senior managers would have walked out on him, and he might not have been able to continue as CEO. The PR pain of pissing off the right was less than the internal + PR pain of pissing off the left.

    And that's the key thing to change -- but not by attacking fundamentally apolitical people like Sundar. He's an engineering CEO, not an SJW ringleader. The right needs to train its fire on the public SJWs like Mike Isaac (NYT), Farhad Manjoo (NYT), Hunter Walk, Susan Fowler, Liz Fong-Jones, and similar on Twitter. As much as they like to dish it out, these kinds of people are generally unused to getting blown up and personally attacked and reported on.

    https://twitter.com/MikeIsaac/status/893935651996880896
    https://twitter.com/fmanjoo/status/894994257420763136
    https://twitter.com/hunterwalk/status/895794090419249152
    https://twitter.com/susanthesquark/status/896105887596658689
    https://twitter.com/lizthegrey/status/894534272199135233

    You can get a sense of what Sundar is/was dealing with internally here:
    http://voxday.blogspot.ca/2017/08/suppressing-dissent-at-google.html

    As the CEO he is of course the lightning rod, but you should point your guns at the real SJWs. The more pain that SJWs feel, the more they'll think twice about virtue signaling.

    PS: The really interesting thing is that Larry Page managed to hang back in the whole episode. Page is half-Jewish, like Mencius Moldbug, Patri Friedman, Yuri Slezkine, and some of the other most important truth tellers. A lot of the half-Jews in Silicon Valley combine the traditional Jewish intellect and verbal facility with a more genuinely meritocratic spirit. I can't see Larry Page signing off on a letter like Sundar wrote -- Page is very libertarian. Really amazing that he's managed to stay out of it so far.

    What Pichai could have done is assigned Damore to reeducation. Seconded him over to Google’s diversity & inclusion team until Damore quit. That would have been the smarter move in hindsight. No martyrdom for quitters.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  134. @Eagle Eye
    Short summary of caste notions in 2017 - feel free to correct:

    (1) The terms Brahmin and Untouchables (insert your favorite euphemism HERE) have ongoing vitality in 2017. Brahmin and Untouchables are subject to significant discrimination at the hands of other groups.

    (2) As another commenter noted, Pichai as an Aryan Brahmin would be banned from teaching at a state school in Tamil Nadu.

    Note that there is an ETHNIC angle here: Brahmin in Tamil Nadu are apparently still viewed as Northern invaders (although they have been speaking Tamil for at least centuries). Other Tamils are referred to as "Dravidian" (Southern natives).

    (3) Shudra is also a term that Shudra and non-Shudra seem to use to refer to the laboring classes. Some Shudra can be quite wealthy.

    (4) Jati (countless endogamous sub-castes, often specializing in certain trades) make up the middle ground of Indian society.

    (5) Lastly, there are so-called scheduled tribes who are not part of mainstream Indian society and appear to be descendants of older population groups.

    @EagleEye I responded to one of your earlier posts but Unz Review ate it I think.

    (1) The terms Brahmin and Untouchables (insert your favorite euphemism HERE) have ongoing vitality in 2017. Brahmin and Untouchables are subject to significant discrimination at the hands of other groups.

    Yes to the first part. To the second, sometimes they are the discriminators, sometimes the discriminatees, and sometimes just bystanders to those dynamics between other groups.

    (3) Shudra is also a term that Shudra and non-Shudra seem to use to refer to the laboring classes. Some Shudra can be quite wealthy.

    Shudra is not an operative socio-political term at all. An Indian will say I am a Patel, or I am a Nayar or I am a Jat, Dalit, Khatri etc. but no one is going to say I am a Shudra. There is no solidarity or sense of common origin amongst the various jatis that could be classified thus. The term has limited application in the religious realm but barely even there.

    And some of the jatis mentioned above are not just wealthy but socio-politically powerful. For instance Patels and Jats are the dominant land owners in their respective regions.

    (4) Jati (countless endogamous sub-castes, often specializing in certain trades) make up the middle ground of Indian society.

    Not just the middle. Even amongst the Brahmins jati and sectarian difference trump all but the vaguest sense of pan-Indian identity. Or take the Mahars of Maharashtra. These are the people of B.R. Ambedekar the first president of India and the founder of the Dalit civil rights movement. The Mahars have twelve different subgroups all traditionally endogamous and ranking each other at different levels.

    (5) Lastly, there are so-called scheduled tribes who are not part of mainstream Indian society and appear to be descendants of older population groups.

    Older groups certainly but some have been in contact with Hindu society for a long time and have intermixed culturally and genetically to various degrees. Others only made “first contact” in the 19-20th centuries.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Eagle Eye
    Thanks - interesting details.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  135. Numinous says:
    @anonymous
    "Another example is why there are so many Tamil Brahmins like Pichai and Khosla in the West. Back in the 50′s/60′s there was a virulent anti-Brahmin movement..."

    and

    "Another thing you have to bear in mind is a lot of that kind of Indian grew up in big cities and went to English medium often Roman Catholic schools."


    I was once a visiting prof at an IIT. One of the things that surprised me was how many (most?) of the students had gone to English-speaking "missionary schools" their entire lives. Perhaps that had an effect on the role of caste in their lives, or at least how they discussed it in their professional lives? Would anyone know what the percentage of IIT students with a missionary school background is?

    Also, the department expected near 100% placement overseas; for this department, at least, that was almost the point of going to IIT (except for a few who had family issues).

    I was also a bit surprised at how many students seemed to look down on their professors. One faculty member told me it was because the students were used to dealing with servants and somewhat put their teachers in that category. Besides, who were these losers who couldn't get jobs overseas?

    I was also a bit surprised at how many students seemed to look down on their professors.

    I call complete BS on this. I grew up in India and went to an IIT. There are absolutely no such dynamics in India. Quite the opposite: teachers are expected, and given much more leeway than in the West, to be authoritarian in their classrooms. If anything, Indian students don’t question their teachers even when they should. They learn that behavior when they go to grad school in the West.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  136. @Anon7
    Pichai is a Tamil Brahmin, as was the extraordinary mathematician Srinivasa Ramanujan. In the 1990's, when I started working with the start of the flood of Indian engineering consultants to American companies, they were all members of the Brahmin cast. About 2 percent of Tamils are Brahmin, the highest caste. And yes, they were all bright.

    I've read recently that there is some concern that if our immigration policy favors high IQ Asians, who have average IQs higher than "legacy" American stock, that we'll wind up with a situation in which white people and others will wind up working for Asians. Here's some over-the-top Indian thinking, if you're interested. Some of the concepts might sound familiar:


    Of all the ridiculous lies that the pro Dalit [untouchable, lowest caste] Media has foisted on the gullible on the Brahmanish world is the whopper that each of the world’s races are exactly equal in temperament and ability, and that if Brahmanical dominance of the social structure were to be dismantled, the so-called “oppressed” races would automatically rise to the occasion and astound the world with their creative genius and high moral and spiritual character.

    Unfortunately, ever since the end of the nineteen thirties, it has been considered un-cool in “proper” society to express either privately or publicly any other view of human racial physiology than the egalitarian concept, first promulgated in India by Pro Dalit Socialists and their Sudras disciples. Thus began a period from the early nineteen forties until the present time, that can best be described as the “Age of the Egalitarian Lie” Everything in the natural world decrees that a natural hierarchy is nature’s first law, and that the “Survival of the Fittest”, natures mandate. We fail to heed these laws at our own peril...

    We must not allow the big Pro Dalit lie of egalitarianism persist unchallenged, comrades. Out of this one big lie, ALL of the other lies spring forth. When it is again widely understood by our “dumbed down” Brahmanical brethren that biological race is real, and not merely a “social construct”, the natural assertiveness and manliness of our Great Brahmanical Race will again come into play, and a New Era of Brahmanism and Asian World Dominance shall begin. We shall share Leadership of Planet Earth with the world’s other Great Race; the Northeastern Mongoloids. Then shall begin a “Brahmanish-Yellow” Alliance that shall usher in a bright new Era for all humanity, and carry the Planet into an Age of Progress, and Scientific and Spiritual Heights as yet undreamed of. BRAHMANISH ARYAN FOREVER!!!

     

    Where did you find this? The first two paragraphs seem reasonable but then it lapsed into what seems to be the Indian version of Hollywood Nazism.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  137. Anon says: • Disclaimer
    @anonymous
    Are there different curry vendors around Google offices to serve caste tastes? Does Tamil like same tastes as Gujarat? English subculture includes many curry shops and older English remember the Raj or family lore with mixed fondness. How is American caste stratification different?

    California being California, they probably all live on tacos.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  138. Anon says: • Disclaimer
    @anonguy

    Only a small portion of India was ever in Japanese control
     
    Interesting point about India is that they had a formation, the Indian Legion, collaborating with the Nazis and the Indian National Army collaborating with the Japanese during WWII.

    So did France and Russia and especially the Ukraine. I don’t think the Poles did though.

    Read More
    • Replies: @anonguy

    So did France and Russia and especially the Ukraine. I don’t think the Poles did though.
     
    These guys only, and I hate to use the word only for such a monstrous crime, collaborated with the Germans, not with the Japanese as well.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  139. @Dot Not Feather
    Undoubtedly those Indians who swear caste doesn't exist anymore or is only rural protest too much but my point was that it won't do to look at the Rig Veda etc. to understand it as a social concept today. And yes the rank hypocrisy of those who benefit from it and complain when Whites allegedly discriminate is palpable but contra whataboutists on the right it is nothing abnormal. People should prefer their own however that is defined as they always have since our species began. All talents are not equally distributed. And all societies have hierarchies because of that. We all should be fighting to give White Americans the freedom to discuss and act in their own interests without fear of harassment or thinking there is something to feel guilty about.

    I was at a dinner party where people started moaning about Trump and I said " The first duty of White Americans is to look after their own many of whom are hurting badly right now. Because they are generous they probably will help the third world but you will have to get in line behind those who have a higher priority claim on that generosity than you."

    I was at a dinner party where people started moaning about Trump and I said ” The first duty of White Americans is to look after their own many of whom are hurting badly right now. Because they are generous they probably will help the third world but you will have to get in line behind those who have a higher priority claim on that generosity.

    How did others in the party respond? Where did the discussion go from there?

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  140. namae nanka says: • Website
    @Anonymous
    No, I didn't say that. I am broad minded enough to appreciate the achievements of the white man throughout history. My Hindu ancestors have also been equally respectful of the abilities of the Greeks.

    What gets my goat is you people thinking you're somehow holier than we are. Blatant example of pot calling the kettle ...

    India gave full legal rights to the so-called untouchables way back in the 1940s. America segregated Blacks well into the sixties. And south Africa even later.

    All things considered, after adjusting for overall national standard of living, it's probably much better being an untouchable in India than a black man in America. At least an untouchable in India can move to the city and no one would know his caste and most would not care.

    India gave full legal rights to the so-called untouchables way back in the 1940s. America segregated Blacks well into the sixties. And south Africa even later.

    The ‘so-called untouchables’ don’t come close to the criminality that is displayed by the blacks. Too bad that the ‘so-called untouchables’ didn’t end up as slaves in America instead of them.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  141. Eagle Eye says:
    @Dot Not Feather
    @EagleEye I responded to one of your earlier posts but Unz Review ate it I think.


    (1) The terms Brahmin and Untouchables (insert your favorite euphemism HERE) have ongoing vitality in 2017. Brahmin and Untouchables are subject to significant discrimination at the hands of other groups.

     

    Yes to the first part. To the second, sometimes they are the discriminators, sometimes the discriminatees, and sometimes just bystanders to those dynamics between other groups.


    (3) Shudra is also a term that Shudra and non-Shudra seem to use to refer to the laboring classes. Some Shudra can be quite wealthy.

     

    Shudra is not an operative socio-political term at all. An Indian will say I am a Patel, or I am a Nayar or I am a Jat, Dalit, Khatri etc. but no one is going to say I am a Shudra. There is no solidarity or sense of common origin amongst the various jatis that could be classified thus. The term has limited application in the religious realm but barely even there.

    And some of the jatis mentioned above are not just wealthy but socio-politically powerful. For instance Patels and Jats are the dominant land owners in their respective regions.


    (4) Jati (countless endogamous sub-castes, often specializing in certain trades) make up the middle ground of Indian society.

     

    Not just the middle. Even amongst the Brahmins jati and sectarian difference trump all but the vaguest sense of pan-Indian identity. Or take the Mahars of Maharashtra. These are the people of B.R. Ambedekar the first president of India and the founder of the Dalit civil rights movement. The Mahars have twelve different subgroups all traditionally endogamous and ranking each other at different levels.


    (5) Lastly, there are so-called scheduled tribes who are not part of mainstream Indian society and appear to be descendants of older population groups.

     

    Older groups certainly but some have been in contact with Hindu society for a long time and have intermixed culturally and genetically to various degrees. Others only made "first contact" in the 19-20th centuries.

    Thanks – interesting details.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  142. Anon says: • Disclaimer
    @Autochthon
    If they bathed, that'd be huge progress.

    That’s yourself you’re smelling. Make sure to add some scented soap to your next shopping list.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  143. rec1man says:
    @Eagle Eye

    For many castes, last name = caste name
     
    Interestingly, the Indian government (I think federal) has been working hard to suppress surnames that express caste (e.g. Iyer), e.g. by issuing personal status documents with these tell-tale signs omitted.

    I am an Iyer, My grandfather used the Iyer surname ; My father dropped the Iyer surname , bcos Iyers were being assaulted by Tamil Dravidians

    In Tamil Nadu State, caste surnames are discouraged – violently for brahmin surnames ; in other states impossible to do so ; Caste surnames like Reddy, Patel, Nair, Yadav, may be around for decades / centuries

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  144. rec1man says:
    @Anonymous
    Aren't the high tech immigrants all Brahmin?

    No, just about 30% of hi-tech immigrants are brahmin ,vs 5% brahmins in India

    Read More
    • Replies: @res
    Do you have a source for that stat?
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  145. rec1man says:
    @BB753
    Are Indians in the West creating new jatis? I mean, endogamous groups in tech, motel owners, retail, taxi drivers and so on, corresponding to Western professions.

    No, a Jati has often more than 1 source of income , and always tries to expand into new niches.
    Brahmins were originally solely priests, later expanded into teaching, then engineering , law etc

    The Leva Patel own most of the Motels
    the slightly lower ranking Kadva Patel own many of the Subway / Dunkin Donuts

    The Jat Sikhs run many of the Taxis and Trucks and own farming land in California

    Back home all of them are kulak type large farmers

    Read More
    • Agree: BB753
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  146. rec1man says:
    @Horrowshow

    Sundar Pichai is really not a bad guy and not an SJW.
     
    I'm sure you are right. But as others mention, he conforms to the SJWs and for this he must be opposed. The enormous hypocrisy must be pointed out, 95% of non-muslim south asians at google are brahmins (a category they are all well aware of, don't let anyone tell you otherwise), and they are what, 6% of the population pool? It is an active area of study how genetically distinct the indian castes are, but a couple thousand years of restricted intra-caste marriage means it's likely (like the ashkenazi).

    If we are enforcing equality of outcome, here is a good place to start. The point is not that we actually should seek such "equality" (heaven forbid), the point is that not one (american) SJW will expend an ounce of energy on this. That's how you know this is about hate-whitey, i.e. it's about power. The spectacle of a brahmin lecturing americans about equal outcome is beyond the pale, though it is also incredibly humorous.

    Most of the Indian communist leaders and SJW are also brahmins

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  147. rec1man says:

    Every Indian in USA knows their caste and also which castes are banned for marriage

    Sikhs in USA, Canada, Europe have caste riots where the dominant Jat Sikhs attack Dalit Sikhs

    In Indian matrimonial websites, they list their own caste and which other castes are acceptable

    Some years ago, a retired Indian Christian army officer specified for his daughter on a web-site , – no brahmins and no untouchables

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter Display All Comments
  148. anonguy says:
    @Anon
    So did France and Russia and especially the Ukraine. I don't think the Poles did though.

    So did France and Russia and especially the Ukraine. I don’t think the Poles did though.

    These guys only, and I hate to use the word only for such a monstrous crime, collaborated with the Germans, not with the Japanese as well.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  149. res says:
    @rec1man
    No, just about 30% of hi-tech immigrants are brahmin ,vs 5% brahmins in India

    Do you have a source for that stat?

    Read More
    • Replies: @rec1man
    per 1931 Indian census, 5% of Indian pop was brahmin , and brahmins have low tfr, now
    they must be around 3%

    The H1-B crowd has major input from Telugus, who are 99% non-brahmin , and often employ
    extreme nepotism

    Assume 50% of H1B are Telugus, leaves 50% from rest, so my educated guess is
    30% are brahmin
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  150. Brutusale says:
    @Horrowshow
    I imagine Sundar wants nothing more than to get back to strategic technical management of his highly talented teams, recruited based (mostly) on merit from all over the world. It seems certain that he spent the days before the firing consulting not just with his direct management team, but also asking Larry and Sergey what the heck he should do. Google can survive for an extended period based just on maintenance of existing assets, but their real long-term success requires a quorum of precisely the kind of person they just fired, white man or not (both talented and free-spirited). The corporate culture of free-wheeling talent and open transparent discussion can't survive with too high a parasite level, which is presumably why that talent is now raising questions. A number of startup companies I've known had their legacy early employees now in power positions (and yes, as it turns out, often they are women who started modestly and went up fast as company success came). They sometimes play a strange role, to put it mildly. It would be interesting to hear from someone who knows these details in google's case. Why on earth do they allow SJWs so much power? Their company is at stake.

    Because, as Neal Stephenson pointed out 20 years ago and our own lying eyes have since confirmed, startup tech companies are a mess, in the government’s eyes, demographically. They need to hire as many sharp minorities/women possible for their non-technical jobs, the evil HR lady being the prime example.

    We can give thanks to Mitch Kapor for this modern paradigm.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  151. Brutusale says:
    @Anonymous
    Well if are going back to first things, let's not forget who came to whose country 400 years ago. Sans English imperialism, India would have had a shot at developing indigenous modernization along the lines of Japan. Then we wouldn't have to come to the West hat in hand.

    Granted, Indian IQs are nowhere near Japanese IQs, but the Indian elite is numerous enough and intelligent enough that it could have achieved a reasonably good outcome. Plus it is possible that Japanese IQs have benefited from two centuries' worth of Flynn effect, education and good nutrition.

    And don't let yourself be fooled into thinking Indians have to listen to western sanctimony only when they live abroad. American missionaries spend most of their day inculcating self-loathing and shame in Indians, while promoting secessionist movements.

    You didn’t have to come to the West hat in hand. It’s the Current Year, and you’ve got everything you need to create your own destiny–in India.

    The fact that you’re in America instead of remaining back home or emigrating to some other industrialized country gives lie to your every statement. You do know that all the cerebral all-stars from India could have stayed home and erected a towering indigenous tech edifice instead of coming here and working for the white man’s company, right?

    America (and Americans) are not perfect by any measure. But the fact that we allow with little fuss, if not in fact welcome, the polyglot collection of makers, takers and fakers that washes up on our shores makes our reaction to attitudes like yours a bit sharp.

    BTW, the Limey tossers came for us twice in 40 years back during this country’s youth. We sent them limping home. Don’t whine to us if the 15th Century desi wasn’t up to the task.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  152. rec1man says:
    @res
    Do you have a source for that stat?

    per 1931 Indian census, 5% of Indian pop was brahmin , and brahmins have low tfr, now
    they must be around 3%

    The H1-B crowd has major input from Telugus, who are 99% non-brahmin , and often employ
    extreme nepotism

    Assume 50% of H1B are Telugus, leaves 50% from rest, so my educated guess is
    30% are brahmin

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  153. rec1man says:
    @Anonymous
    Here's someone else who corroborates what his name means
    http://www.searchindia.com/2013/03/13/google-picks-indian-to-bust-apples-balls/

    I know plenty of Brahmins and I've never met one named "beggar".

    Pichai does mean beggar in Tamil

    perhaps to ward off the evil eye

    earlier generations of Tamil Brahmins, some had the name Kuppu-swamy and Kuppai means trash in Tamil

    per my understanding , if a couple had loss of infants, for the next child they would give a lowly name to the next child , to ward off the evil eye

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  154. rec1man says:
    @Steve Sailer
    Sounds dubious.

    Sundar ‘s fathers name is Pichai, which does mean beggar

    It was likely given to ward off the evil eye, bcos Pichai elder sibling died in infancy

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  155. rec1man says:
    @Anonymous
    Here's someone else who corroborates what his name means
    http://www.searchindia.com/2013/03/13/google-picks-indian-to-bust-apples-balls/

    I know plenty of Brahmins and I've never met one named "beggar".

    To ward off evil eye, if an infant died , his next sibling was given a lowly name,
    like Pichai ( beggar ) or Kuppa ( trash ), this was common among tamil brahmins before modern medicine, before 75 years ago

    Read More
    • Replies: @Eagle Eye
    Interesting, thanks.

    Similar taboo naming customs have long existed in China. For example, after the death of a son, parents might give the next son a female-sounding name.

    Conversely, if a family had daughters but no son, the youngest daughter might be named "Beckon Brother."
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  156. Eagle Eye says:
    @rec1man
    To ward off evil eye, if an infant died , his next sibling was given a lowly name,
    like Pichai ( beggar ) or Kuppa ( trash ), this was common among tamil brahmins before modern medicine, before 75 years ago

    Interesting, thanks.

    Similar taboo naming customs have long existed in China. For example, after the death of a son, parents might give the next son a female-sounding name.

    Conversely, if a family had daughters but no son, the youngest daughter might be named “Beckon Brother.”

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments

Comments are closed.

Subscribe to All Steve Sailer Comments via RSS
PastClassics
The “war hero” candidate buried information about POWs left behind in Vietnam.
What Was John McCain's True Wartime Record in Vietnam?
The evidence is clear — but often ignored
Are elite university admissions based on meritocracy and diversity as claimed?
A simple remedy for income stagnation