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From the NYT opinion page:

A Damaging Bid to Censor Applications at Harvard

If a lawsuit over affirmative action is successful, would-be college students may have to hide their race.

By Elise C. Boddie, Oct. 10, 2018

Professor Boddie has advised universities on how to comply with federal law on affirmative action.

Being black enough to qualify for affirmative action has been very, very good to Prof. Boddie’s career.

Imagine this scenario: An admissions officer sits down to read a stack of applications, but they’re heavily redacted because the college must censor all references to an applicant’s race.

Okay, let me try to imagine this … Hmmmmmmm … Sounds good! Let’s do it.

It would be a lot like how applicants for openings in symphony orchestras audition behind a curtain. Or how law school tests are graded “blind” without the grader knowing the name of who took the test.

The admissions officer can consider an applicant’s gender, where she grew up, whether she preferred the Yankees to the Red Sox and every other conceivable part of her background or identity. But not her race, even if it had a formative impact on her life.

That could become the reality for every college if a group of Asian-American students denied admission to Harvard wins a lawsuit. They want to outlaw the modest use of race in admissions that the Supreme Court has twice upheld as vital to college students’ education. …

The lawsuit asks the court to bar colleges from being able to consider, learn about or even become aware of an applicant’s race. Eventually, applicants might stop discussing their race altogether, omitting things like leadership roles in their high school’s Latino Student Alliance or choosing not to write about icons like Dolores Huerta — all because they might be worried about indicating their racial identity.

This case could have a devastating impact. Consider a black student who grew up on the South Side of Chicago or a Hmong applicant who lives in a working-class neighborhood in Minneapolis. Both of them have likely had very different experiences from white applicants.

Under Harvard’s current admissions process, they could discuss the role race played in their lives. A white applicant might also want to share her experiences with race.

Suggested prompt for a white applicant wanting to write about race under the current system: “Gradually I began to hate my ancestors.”

Anyway, the college application essay is at present one of the ways young people are instructed that being whiny and woke is the way to get ahead in The Current Year. Restricting essays to impersonal topics — E.g., Write about something you have learned and why it’s interesting — would be a good way instead to get across the message that college is for learning about the real world.

Look, the current college system appears to be damaging the mental health of college students, if the data collected in The Coddling of the American Mind is reliable. Why not experiment with alternatives in the hope of finding methods that are less detrimental to the health and happiness of the young?

 
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  1. Just self-identify as a black non-binary and leave it up to the Uni to decide whether or not it is worth the legal fees to challenge you.

    • Replies: @Pat Boyle
  2. prosa123 says: • Website

    In many cases the admissions people could determine race fairly reliably from an applicant’s high school and/or name.

    • Replies: @Lowe
  3. Daniel H says:

    But it’s pretty easy, though, to infer the race of candidates such as Kevin Wang, Jon Ramirrez or Latisha Andrews. Cynically, Harvard may agree to such an arrangement. They know that they can still pack the class the way they want using a little common sense.

  4. Anybody want to bet me $100 that she didn’t check the Black box on the race question in her applications?

    Proceeds to Steve.

    The talented tenth strikes again.

  5. Anon[425] • Disclaimer says:

    Now, we see the advantage of having black names. Not usually helpful for job applications but IF university applications can’t mention race, the Name will tell. B’ootiqua Jones.

    Maybe Asian parents should get wise too and give their kids black names. And change last names too. So, Shao Lu becomes Shaq Lewis. That will get him in.

  6. Anon[425] • Disclaimer says: • Website

    Why not just shut down all elite and exclusive schools?

    Make it so that every school has to have at least 10,o00 incoming freshman.

  7. Lowe says:
    @prosa123

    That would only work for schools that serve poor, heavily minority neighborhoods. It wouldn’t work well, because whites still attend those schools.

    The article is silly, because obviously college applicants will never be prohibited from mentioning a given topic on their essays. The lawyers in the Harvard case are just reaching for whatever it takes. What might happen is that AA will go before SCOTUS, as in 2003, but this time it gets struck down. Then colleges will be prohibited, not applicants.

    With the numbers on the Supreme Court, there is a decent chance AA would be struck down. With any luck the Harvard case will get to SCOTUS. Ideal outcome, it gets there after Trump has gotten another appointee. Fingers crossed. I have always found affirmative action morally disgusting.

    • Agree: Mr. Rational
    • Replies: @L Woods
    , @Trevor H.
    , @Jack D
  8. BenKenobi says:

    Gradually I began to hate my ancestors.

    That dog-whistle is at the very edge of the audible spectrum.

    • Replies: @TheMediumIsTheMassage
  9. Private schools who make a good-faith attempt to minimize their public subsidy should be able to admit whomever they damned please.

    Public schools, in contrast, should… oh, the hell with it. This alone is a good reason to abolish public institutions altogether. They cannot work under conditions of diversity.

    Except for the military academies. Which can eliminate the chaff by making all applicants navigate through a spray of fire.

    Consider a black student who grew up on the South Side of Chicago or a Hmong applicant who lives in a working-class neighborhood in Minneapolis

    She knows Chicago better than she knows the Twin Cities. Hmong live in St Paul. It’s Somalis who live in Minneapolis.

  10. I like how the author invokes the idea of “censorship” as shorthand for badness.

    Ignore that in the current year the approved position is that aggressive censorship is not only desirable but actually *required* in almost every other context.

  11. @Anon

    Maybe Asian parents should get wise too and give their kids black names. And change last names too

    Or just pass as Hmong. You can count their surnames on one hand– Vang, Her, Moua, …?

    Or Philippine, who have Spanish surnames, which would make them twofers.

    • Replies: @Anon
    , @Lurker
  12. “This case could have a devastating impact. Consider a black student who grew up on the South Side of Chicago or a Hmong applicant who lives in a working-class neighborhood in Minneapolis. Both of them have likely had very different experiences from white applicants.”

    This is the classic dishonesty where race is conflated with class. The purpose is to trick you into believing that non whites are poor and thus are doing just as well as whites would do if they had to overcome the same obstacles. In reality poor whites outsmart upper middle class blacks, but you’re not supposed to know that.

    • Agree: Mr. Rational
  13. Anon[312] • Disclaimer says:

    Try applying to some California schools like USC these days to get an education on how to racially discriminate without having to use a student’s name. In order to qualify for financial assistance (other than federal student loans) they make white students write detailed essays on how they will “contribute to campus diversity” or any number of other similar topics. Of course, they can’t in the way that is intended by the prompt, so there is nothing they can write about that won’t sound disingenuous, discouraging them from even applying in the first place. It’s a subtle way to discriminate against whites in high value, underrepresented, traditionally non-white, or prestigious programs like their film school.

    You: “I have the next great film idea right here in this script. The whole medium is about to be revolutionized. I’ve got ILM beating down my door. Spielberg won’t stop calling. I blocked his number!”

    USC: “Yes, but how will your movie contribute to diversity and creating safe spaces on campus?”

  14. The affirmative action people will do an end run by asking applicants what music they listen to. Or who their favorite living person is. Or what historical figure they most admire. etc.

    • Replies: @Desiderius
  15. Anonymous[276] • Disclaimer says:

    How hard can it be to identify race in applications without explicitly asking the applicants? You know Sean Finnegan from Massachusetts and Erik Nordhaus from Minnesota aren’t black, while JaMarcus Jones, wherever he’s from, is. Bobby Jackson might be hard to identify, but if he’s Bobby Jackson from Atlanta, NAACP Young Leaders Award winner, aspiring African-American studies scholar, etc., you know he’s black.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  16. Plucky hedge fund manager Bill Ackman graduated from Harvard college. His thesis was “Scaling the Ivy Wall: the Jewish and Asian American Experience in Harvard Admissions.”(http://classify.oclc.org/classify2/ClassifyDemo?owi=17534608

  17. Why not experiment with alternatives in the hope of finding methods that are less detrimental to the health and happiness of the young?

    That’s a good way to put it to the universities, using their own stupidity against them. However, I’m with Mr. Lowe, in that I’m against AA simply because it IS disgusting, not only morally, as he stated, but repugnant to the US Constitution along with being an anathema to the entire concept of fairness.

  18. @Reg Cæsar

    Public schools, in contrast, should… oh, the hell with it. This alone is a good reason to abolish public institutions altogether. They cannot work under conditions of diversity.

    AGREED!

    AND,

    FIFY (It’s not that the stricken-out sentence was wrong, it’s just not a necessary reason.)

    • Agree: Marat
  19. @Daniel H

    This is the first thing that I thought. Although it’s possible that even this “obstacle” could be circumvented with the right application policy (i.e., redact first/last names, etc.)

  20. The lawsuit asks the court to bar colleges from being able to consider, learn about or even become aware of an applicant’s race. Eventually, applicants might stop discussing their race altogether …

    The Reverend, Doctor Martin Luther King, Junior approved this message.*

    .
    .

    * Or would have, if he weren’t in the middle of an orgy, beating his woman, or lying 6 ft. under the ground somewhere…

  21. Forbes says:

    Delores Huerta?

    This makes my head hurt. I had to look her up. She had 11 children with three men, married to two of them. Farm worker activist and UFW organizer with Cesar Chavez, whom I remember from the ’60s.

    Today they’d both be called anti-immigrant. Here’s Wiki:

    The UFW during Chavez’s tenure was committed to restricting import of immigrant labor. Chavez and Dolores Huerta, cofounder and president of the UFW, fought the Bracero Program that existed from 1942 to 1964. Their opposition stemmed from their belief that the program undermined U.S. workers and exploited the migrant workers. Since the Bracero Program ensured a constant supply of cheap immigrant labor for growers, immigrants could not protest any infringement of their rights, lest they be fired and replaced.

    But she’s an icon–so says Prof. Boddie.

    • Replies: @Paleo Liberal
  22. Hunsdon says:

    “At my bar mitzvah . . . . “

    • Replies: @Anon
  23. @Daniel H

    Harvard’s not in the business of being common.

  24. @ThreeCranes

    That’s already been gamed, or did you think Dolores Huerta was really an icon?

  25. Anon[425] • Disclaimer says: • Website
    @Reg Cæsar

    Or Philippine, who have Spanish surnames, which would make them twofers.

    The Ben Fong Torres rule.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ben_Fong-Torres

    Due to the Chinese Exclusion Act, Fong-Torres’ father Ricardo (born Fong Kwok Seung), changed his surname to Torres and posed as a Filipino in order to immigrate to the United States. His family later adopted the hyphenated surname, Fong-Torres.[1] He is the brother of the late Shirley Fong-Torres.

    Funny… but via immigration, Chinese practice Chinese-Exclusion Act. They want to live in a world that is majority white. Thus, Chineseness is excluded from their Westernized lives.

    If a people run from their own kind, they are excluding their own people and culture from their own lives.

    If Chinese can’t stand Chinese, why should others welcome them?

    • Agree: Mr. Rational
  26. @BenKenobi

    Let’s shout it out loud then. No more amnesty for goblins.

  27. Anon[425] • Disclaimer says: • Website

    Did it ever occur to blacks that many more positions would have opened up to them if not for mass immigration-invasion from Latin America, Asia, Muslim world, and etc?

    Oh yeah, the dummies were persuaded that it’s gonna be ‘people of color’ vs Whitey. If all of US goes Californy, blacks are gonna be the biggest losers.

    • Agree: Mr. Rational
  28. @BigDickNick

    Ah, recession to the mean. Also known as, why you should be terrified of middle class African/Caribbean immigrants that appear fine and dandy and contribute like anyone else. Their children and the children after them, once the 20 point IQ drop kicks in, will be responsible for a lot of trouble.

  29. That’s what I thought too. Who’s this Huerta person?

    I doubt any Hispanic but one being coached for college applications will have heard of her. I don’t even care enough to bother looking her up. I’ll just forget a few minutes later.

  30. Lurker says:
    @Reg Cæsar

    Or . . . what happens with with white Hispanics? Or rather white people with Spanish surnames?

  31. newrouter says:

    another “mocha moocher”

  32. istevefan says:

    They want to outlaw the modest use of race in admissions that the Supreme Court has twice upheld as vital to college students’ education. …

    Anyone want to put a bet on how the Supreme Court will rule on this a third time? A major part of the Judge K. meltdown was the fact they know once the court tilts, the jig is up.

    • Agree: Mr. Rational
    • Replies: @Anon
    , @L Woods
  33. Arclight says:

    Is it just me, or does it seem like very light-skinned or clearly mixed-race blacks are often the most militant advocates for affirmative action/the race hustle? Ben Jealous, Adam Serwer, Melissa Harris-Perry, Colin Kapernick, etc…probably reaction to not being considered truly black by their peers when they were younger. If white privilege exists, it’s not having to go through this kind of hazing by other whites to prove you are white enough in terms of your political, musical, and cultural tastes.

    • Agree: Mr. Rational
    • Replies: @LiveFreeOrDie
  34. “Consider a black student who grew up on the South Side of Chicago or a Hmong applicant who lives in a working-class neighborhood in Minneapolis. Both of them have likely had very different experiences from white applicants.”

    And neither of them likely have any business attending a serious university.

    • Agree: Mr. Rational
    • Replies: @Anon
  35. gcochran says:

    “appears to be damaging the mental health of college students”

    Probably not.

  36. @Lurker

    Why are you so racist, gringo?

  37. Anon[257] • Disclaimer says:

    Once upon a time, in a galaxy far far away essays weren’t required for college admissions.

    But a trillion jillion light years away the Empires Death Star spotted America and soon imposed not one but 2 essays first my greatest struggle aka poor poor pitiful me second how I will use my degree to change the world for the better by eliminating Whites from the face of the earth

    The SATs were created to equalize college admissions and admit students solely on ability. The idea was it would give kids from Podunk high equality with 3rd generation Andover students.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    , @Anon
  38. Anon[257] • Disclaimer says:
    @istevefan

    Hope for the best but plan for the worst

    When California anti affirmative action Prop 209 passed and was upheld by the courts the colleges just substitute various forms of bullshit for race and continued to discriminate against Whites.

    Prop 209 also forbade racial discrimination in government employment. That too was totally ignored and there wasn’t even an attempt to justify discrimination against Whites by holistic hiring or any other crapology

  39. There’s only one way racial preferences can be kept out of college admissions: every applicant takes the same admissions exam or high school exit exam, and admission is awarded strictly on the basis of scores.

    That’s more or less what happens here in Hong Kong. It’s fair, definitely, but it raises a lot of other significant problem, e.g. teaching to the test, killing kids’ willingness to take risks in their choices of subjects, etc.

    • Replies: @Lowe
    , @Bill B.
  40. Spud Boy says:

    Affirmative Action has always been morally reprehensible; it’s time to end it.

    I’m also against public colleges offering tuition breaks to poor students. A college degree is a product; as such, everyone should pay the same price. When I go buy a car, I don’t have to show my 1040 before they quote me a price.

    • Agree: Mr. Rational
    • Replies: @stillCARealist
    , @anonymous
  41. Anon[257] • Disclaimer says:
    @Hunsdon

    My holocaust survivor great great grandma. How I raised money for the senior class trip to Aushwitz. The heart attack I had at age 11 when the gardener left the rake and shovel laying in the shape of a cross while he ate his lunch

    Not that I know the difference between a rake and a shovel or what they’re used for.

    • LOL: Mr. Rational
  42. George says:

    How can Harvard co-opt future black leadership if they can’t determine race before admission?

    • Agree: Mr. Rational
  43. Nothing new about hiding your race on college applications. Half-Asians have been doing it for decades.

    • Replies: @Trevor H.
  44. L Woods says:
    @Lowe

    I doubt it. I’m sure the “conservative” majority will cuck out as they always do.

  45. The problem in college is not black people.

    It is how stupid white people are. Do you actually KNOW any white people? And you think they are SMART? If you do, you obviously don’t know any white people. Especially white college students.

    • Troll: Mr. Rational
  46. L Woods says:
    @istevefan

    They’ll cuck. They always do. And even if they don’t, the institutions will just defy them.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  47. Marat says:
    @Daniel H

    What if candidates were assigned a number during the application submission process?

  48. Got sidetracked, but:

    The admissions officer can consider an applicant’s gender, where she grew up, whether she preferred the Yankees to the Red Sox and every other conceivable part of her background or identity. But not her race, even if it had a formative impact on her life.

    What the hell, man? Are they only accepting women? The 8th word is “gender”, so this CAN’T be the assumption in this sentence. Therefore, I can only figure that this writer doesn’t know proper English (male pronouns for persons of unknown sex), yet she is allegedly a professor. That’s why I wrote “what the hell, man?”, or I guess it should be “what the hell, woman professor?”

    I can’t stand the use of “their”, “them”, etc. for unknown sex, but this lady is just pushing the feminism in our faces.

    Shut ‘em all down!

  49. ic1000 says:

    [The Asian-American plaintiffs] want to outlaw the modest use of race in admissions that the Supreme Court has twice upheld as vital to college students’ education.

    That’s a precious way to keep the privilege knapsack packed.

    They want to outlaw the modest use determining role of race in admissions, far in excess of the modest use that the Supreme Court has twice upheld.

    Steve has made the case for racial quotas in certain areas with important policy implications, especially for the descendants of American slaves and American aboriginals. Sounds good to me and much fairer to all concerned, even though it’d require revamps of law, and jurisprudence. Intellectuals would prefer the resulting clarity to the double talk and wobbly thinking that’s so fashionable in the Current Year.

    Don’t you agree, Prof. Boddie?

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
  50. @Forbes

    I think I saw her speak once.

    Back in the 1970s someone gave me a ticket to a luncheon where Cesar Chavez was supposed to speak.

    He couldn’t make it so she came instead and talked about how great Chavez was. (This was before he went nuts).

    Chavez’ Chicano movement, and the UFW, were all about Mexican-Americans. Not Mexicans. They wanted Chicanos to be treated with the respect with which other Americans were treated.

    And in those days, it was common for growers to have buses by the border to pick up illegal aliens. UFW men, led by Chavez’ brother, formed “wet lines” to beat the crap out of anyone who crosses the border. They considered illegal aliens to be strike breakers.

    The UFW worked with the INS to report farms that hired illegals so La Migra could come in and raid the places.

    And the wages of the Chicano farm workers went up, and their working conditions improved.

    Yes, Chavez was at best a Marxist and in later years completely out of his mind, but he saw the farm workers as people to help. These days too many Hispanic “community leaders “ want more illegals so they will have a larger community for which they can be self-styled leaders. They don’t care if that hurts the Hispanics already in the US.

    All I will say is, while I voted straight line Democratic in 2000, my non-white legal immigrant in-laws voted for Trump. They are so f***ing sick of having to deal with all the illegal aliens in their neighborhood who fly their foreign flags, raise the rents and undercut their wages.

    • Agree: Desiderius
    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
  51. How about two even better options:

    1. Admissions Transparency: Don’t stop universities from discriminating on race, just stop them from hiding it. The common counter-argument is that the public would be outraged over outrageous practices such as racially driven college admissions, and sustaining these outrageous practices requires the cloak of secrecy.

    2. Open Admissions: Why stop any students from buying education? If someone wants to take a math class, why deny them the right to buy a seat in the class? That would be like a gym refusing to sell gym membership to people. Why should state funded schools work to serve their students and faculty and excluded outsiders? Why are those outsiders required to pay taxes to support the school that excludes them?

    • Agree: Mr. Rational
    • Replies: @Lowe
    , @DFH
  52. Jack D says:
    @Anon

    Essays were added as part of the “holistic” admission process which was invented expressly to exclude Jews. Would not be the first time someone had their own weapon turned against them.

    • Agree: Mr. Rational
    • Replies: @Trevor H.
  53. Lowe says:
    @Reg Cæsar

    Harvard makes no attempt to limit its public subsidy. Why would it? As I understand it, only religious or extremely conservative schools do that, which is rare.
    Since Harvard and most private schools take as much federal (grant) money as they can, they should not be able to admit or reject anyone they please. Which is the case now, but not for the reason of public funds.

    As far as public institutions go, were you joking about abolishing them? State schools are an unqualified success. The good ones are great equalizers, giving lower middle class young people a chance at a high quality education and a high-paying career. Problems with diversity are nothing compared to the amount of material good state schools have done for the American people.

    What we should be doing is abolishing affirmative action, because it is wrong. The Harvard case may help accomplish that.

    • Agree: Mr. Rational
    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
  54. Lowe says:
    @Anonymousse

    Haha, we even have to censor our computer programs apparently.

  55. J.Ross says: • Website

    Another case of the white man using structural fear to harm or render invisible black Boddies.

  56. @Daniel H

    In Brazil, admssions to the universities used to be purely based on the score you got on an entrance test. Candidate names were not even available to the admission comitee; only the registration numbers were.

    That ensured nobody would be negatively discriminated for their race, or, more commonly, positively discriminated for their notable family name.

    We ended up adding Affirmative Action latter, so the system is no longer race-blind.

  57. Lowe says:
    @The Last Real Calvinist

    No, a national exam is not necessary to end racial preferences. It would be nice to have for another reason, which is to ensure equal opportunity for intelligent students in different social classes.

    All that is needed to end racial preferences, though, is a legal precedent that allows people to sue, if it’s found that the university used race as a criterion in admission.

  58. @Spud Boy

    Thank you. A million times Thank You. Just lower the dang price and charge everyone the same amount.

  59. Lowe says:
    @Massimo Heitor

    I think #2 is a great idea. It would make universities more like the public (serving) institutions they’re supposed to be. Not to mention that taking away the artificial scarcity of admission (to certain schools) would defang them politically, taking away their ability to control people’s future. University education needs to be liberalized, badly, and the happy result would be a world where universities aren’t such a big deal.

  60. @Reg Cæsar

    Hmong live in St Paul. It’s Somalis who live in Minneapolis.

    Mostly true, but there’s a sizable chuck of Hmong in North Minneapolis, too. The City Councilman from “Over North” was until recently named Blong Yang, after all.

  61. Anon[183] • Disclaimer says:

    “Essays were added as part of the “holistic” admission process which was invented expressly to exclude Jews. Would not be the first time someone had their own weapon turned against them.”

    “Essays” were never used across the board to “exclude Jews” and those of us who aren’t ethnocentric Jewish activists would never even think to bring up such a ridiculous point (apparently to justify them; I’m guessing the guy is getting butthurt over the pressure building on Harvard to scrap their pro-Jew admissions policy). BTW, let me know how that BDS thing works out for you guys. Won’t be the first time somebody used the Jew’s own weapon against them, and it couldn’t happen to a better group of people, either.

    • Replies: @Pericles
    , @Trevor H.
  62. @Anon

    I made sure to skim the comments before posting and you had the exact same thought. Who would have thought that names like Shitavious (actual name, he shot and killed another urban youth on a porch a few years back) and Barkavios and LeAngelo would eventually pay off?

  63. Anon[354] • Disclaimer says:

    There’s really no way you could mask race. There are so many places for it to leak out, so many dog whistles available to applicants.

    I personally think that even in the case of law school blind grading, if their lives depended on it, professors could ID the black exams with 90 percent accuracy.

    Explicit quotas with 23 and Me-confirmed minimum 50 percent admixture of sub-Saharan Afican ancestry. That determines your bucket, and within buckets only the SAT is used. Free all-you-can-eat test prep for everyone.

    If you really want to give making a try, you could have firewall off admissions department sections, one to do the masking, one composed of people who are paid to guess race from applications and who get cash bonuses for guessing right, and a third to make offers based on the fully cleansed applications.

    • Replies: @J.Ross
  64. Amen says:

    I can’t believe she’s a law professor, arguing with this kind of 3rd grade logic.

    Did she even pass the BAR?

  65. J.Ross says: • Website
    @Anon

    It happened several times at 4chan that this became apparent: once it was imposed by mods embarrassed by incidences of certain words, who made it so that typing a forbidden word spelled out something else. Other times it was in exposition of leftist nominalism (everything’s in a name, change the name, change the named). But an unemployed illiterate basketball enthusiast who knocked the eyeball out of his pregnant girlfriend’s skull by any other name is pretty easy to guess. Among replacement terms used were roody-poos, African-American gentlemen, melanin-enriched gentlemen, gentlemen of Nubian extraction, Basketball-Americans, grape soda quality control officers, and computer scientists.
    And this is illustrated further by instances of Coulter’s Law.

  66. Anon[257] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anon

    I got into a top 10 school spring of 1960 no essay required. Isn’t it the standard Jewish belief that discrimination against Jews ended long before 1960?

    If a Jew didn’t mention he or she was a Jew how would the essay help or hinder?
    Does anyone remember when the essay thing began? I thought the purpose the essay is to weep and wail about all your angst and woe. I believe there is a woe score. The more woeful and miserable an applicant is the better chance there is to be admitted.

    And more jobs for the college mental health clinic. Soon there will be more consultants specialists facilitators and coordinators on campus than teachers students janitors and maintainence people combined

  67. Anon[257] • Disclaimer says:
    @MikeatMikedotMike

    There’s a major distinction between a working class neighborhood and a welfare class neighborhood. Most of the Hmong live in welfare class neighborhoods.

  68. @DIscharged EE

    See, this is what I hate about the Unz comment rating system.  This is a GREAT comment, but the categories of Agree/Disagree/etc. are completely inadequate—nay, are ORTHOGONAL—to rate it as it ought to be.

    On Slashdot, I would give it an “Informative” or “Insightful”.  Those categories apply whether or not I agree or disagree, and that contributes to thougthful appraisal.

    • Replies: @Trevor H.
  69. @TheMediumIsTheMassage

    Their children and the children after them, once the 20 point IQ drop kicks in, will be responsible for a lot of trouble.

    If courts refuse to acknowledge the reality of the Black failure as proven by the children of Black professionals in Shaker Heights, OH then those courts have no legitimacy whatsoever.

    Let them go improve Haiti, or Liberia, or Ghana.  They can only damage the USA.

  70. Pericles says:
    @Anon

    Hey guys, let’s use essays to exclude the highly verbal minority.

  71. Anon[121] • Disclaimer says:

    I LOLed at the first three words of the opinion piece: “Imagine this scenario.”

    While not exactly wrong (so it at least passed the NYT’s cursory copyedit, I think this is a case of someone insecure about her smarts deliberately using a more deluxe word.

    “Imaging this scene.” No, I’ll use the big Latin or Italian or French or whatever version of “scene,” “scenario.” It means the same thing. “Imagine this scenario.” There, that’s better.

    From photos she seems like someone who would feel she’s being discriminated at from whites, and from blacks who don’t believe she’s a real black, since she’s so pale

    “Imagine this scenario. Picturesque, if you will a world where college appliqués could not mention race.”

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
    , @DFH
  72. dux.ie says:

    Many tier1 universities know how to play the game without invoking the ‘R’ words by implicitly using ethnic performance characteristics. It seems that AA offers regularly coupling high GPA and low SATeq. It looks that only H* was dumb enough to invoke the ‘R’ word. For example the reverse engineered selection rules from a certain ivy league university spelled them out clearly, those with mid performance got rejected and strangely no implied rule for the waiting list,

    Read 639 cases (5 attributes)

    Rule 51:
    GPAW <= 4.14
    SATM > 790
    SATeq > 1560
    -> class Will Attend [44.3%]
    ##High Math High SATeq

    Rule 61:
    GPAW > 4.71
    GPAW <= 4.89
    SATeq > 1560
    ACT <= 35
    -> class Will Attend [61.2%]
    ##High SATeq

    and curiously simultaneously these two polar opposite rules,

    Rule 2:
    SATeq <= 1070
    ACT > 21
    -> class Will Attend [50.0%]
    ##very low SATeq, AA offer? It might take nerve trying to game this rule.

    Rule 15:
    GPAW > 4.95
    SATeq > 1400
    ACT <= 32
    -> class Accepted [35.1%]
    ##Jokingly high GPA, so so SATeq or ACT, AA offer?? Many in this group might have cold feet hesitating about accepting the offer unlike the one above (SATeq <= 1070) jumping in accepting the offer.

    and two very clear cut rejection rules,

    Rule 19:
    GPAW > 4.47
    SATM <= 640
    ACT > 33
    -> class Denied [77.8%]
    ##low Math, reject

    Rule 11:
    SATeq <= 1400
    -> class Denied [77.6%]
    ##Low SATeq, reject

    Default class: Denied

    • Replies: @ic1000
    , @academic gossip
  73. Trevor H. says:
    @Lowe

    The lawyers in the Harvard case are just reaching for whatever it takes.

    Exactly right, but the colleges will continue with their racial preferences no matter what the law says. They’ll just get more clever at hiding it. It’s what they’re all about, after all.

    • Replies: @Lowe
  74. Trevor H. says:
    @Jack D

    Jews have never been excluded from American universities–in fact they’ve never been less than over-represented. They just want 10x their fair share of everything, and you know this as well as anyone here.

    • Agree: Mr. Rational
    • Replies: @ic1000
  75. Trevor H. says:
    @Hapalong Cassidy

    Well if that’s true then they’re not very smart. Because as one Ron Unz has copiously documented, the one group discriminated against even more than Asian grinds is white people.

    • Agree: Mr. Rational
  76. Trevor H. says:
    @Anon

    Thanks. Well put and amusing too.

  77. @ic1000

    Steve has made the case for racial quotas in certain areas with important policy implications, especially for the descendants of American slaves and American aboriginals. Sounds good to me and much fairer to all concerned

    It sounds like a crock to me, actually. NONE of these people were slaves in their youth. NONE of the white and Oriental people to be discriminated against by these quotas has EVER owned, much less whipped and chained, ANY slaves in their whole entire lives. Where the hell is this fairness?

    Sorry, I usually agree with all you write, IC1000, but I have a sore spot about white people (it’s usually men) being discriminated against by law. It’s been going on for 40 years or more, and 10′s of millions of careers have been derailed or curtailed due to this AA shit. BTW, that’s not about me. I’ve been lucky about it.

    • Agree: Mr. Rational
    • Replies: @ic1000
  78. Trevor H. says:
    @Mr. Rational

    People who have figured out how to leave three dozen tags in each comment thread have no business complaining!

    • LOL: Mr. Rational
    • Replies: @Mr. Rational
  79. @Paleo Liberal

    Yes, Chavez was at best a Marxist …

    OK, now I don’t live in Madison, Wisconsin, mind you, but most of the people I know don’t consider that a good thing. Did you mean “at worst a Marxist”.

    Anyway, I liked the rest of your comment – I always appreciate first-hand accounts/anecdotes and better yet, people who have ANY kind of memory of what happened in the political scene more than 5 freakin’ years ago. That is about Americans in general, not the unz iSteve commenters by any means.

  80. @Anon

    “Imagine this scenario. Picturesque, if you will a world where college appliqués could not mention race.”

    Ooohhh, French. Even just a small amount of French adds dozens of points to one’s IQ. That’s what it sounds like, anyway.

    It’s very much like the naming of a store “The Vitamin Shoppe”, not “The Vitamin Shop” or “Matt’s Bar & Grill” becoming “Mathieu’s Barre & Grille”. Those extra letters add a premium to the price of your vitamins and burgers, respectively, as Peak Stupidity has well noted. Those lighted plastic letters aren’t cheap, ya know?

    • Replies: @keuril
  81. Recently, I had a white, really bright relative filling out college applications who tried to write something intelligent and original for her essay. Her guidance counselors said no f-ing way, write about your mom’s drug problem and how you had to overcome it.

  82. @Arclight

    Funny. In the past, light-skinned blacks could (and often did) try to “pass” as white. But now, it’s “follow the money”.

  83. ic1000 says:
    @dux.ie

    > Many tier1 universities know how to play the game…

    This is a very interesting comment. However, the source and context aren’t clear. Dux, could you provide a link? Are the “##” remarks in the original, or did you supply them?

    • Replies: @dux.ie
  84. “Look, the current college system appears to be damaging the mental health of college students, if the data collected in The Coddling of the American Mind is reliable. Why not experiment with alternatives in the hope of finding methods that are less detrimental to the health and happiness of the young?”

    Because you don’t fix what’s not broken?

  85. ic1000 says:
    @Trevor H.

    In arguing against Jack D, you wrote,

    > Jews have never been excluded from American universities–in fact they’ve never been less than over-represented.

    This is correct, viewing Ashkenazis as a group. But Jack D was discussing the systematic and intentional discrimination by the Ivies against Ashkenazi applicants as individuals.

    Far from trivial, this not-paradox is at the heart of the current lawsuit, and at the core of Affirmative Action (both positive and negative), and a toxic consequence of Diversity worship.

    Singapore is a not-sh1th0le country because this insight was a foundation of Lee Kuan Yew’s policies.

    Instead of Lee, the U.S. elite is stocked with people of Prof. Boddie’s caliber. So the public gets to discuss her ideas, at her level for the most part.

    • Agree: Mr. Rational
    • Replies: @Jack D
  86. keuril says:
    @Achmed E. Newman

    It’s very much like the naming of a store “The Vitamin Shoppe”, not “The Vitamin Shop”

    I once wrote a short story featuring a magical “Shoppe.” But I was nine. I would guess that some of the weird spellings you see are used not to put on airs but in order to trademark a name.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
  87. keuril says:
    @william munny

    who tried to write something intelligent and original for her essay. Her guidance counselors said no f-ing way, write about your mom’s drug problem and how you had to overcome it.

    If she can actually write something intelligent and original and that’s what she wants to do, I’d say why not. If there’s a serious issue like mom’s on drugs, the guidance counselor can mention it in their letter of recommendation. It could be wise not to play the sympathy card too directly.

  88. keuril says:

    I don’t see how they can get rid of race without dismantling the entire edifice of holistic admissions. Aside from race, people are given “holistic” preference for their athleticism, legacy status, development status (donor parents), social status (VIP parents), socioeconomic status (poor and/or uneducated parents), etc. The replacement for holistic admissions would have to be some test-based system, as is common in most other developed or developing countries with competitive admissions. It’s really hard to imagine this happening in the US—the received wisdom is that tests themselves are inherently racist and classist (and perhaps sexist). More likely will be a refinement of the current system in which schools continue their current practices but make sure not to leave a paper trail on race.

    It still surprises me that nobody is shining the spotlight on legacy preference and athletic preference. These are big and tied to both race (disproportionately white) and class (blue-blood sports).

  89. DFH says:
    @Anon

    That wouldn’t be correct French. ‘appliquer’ in French is a word, but it means ‘apply’ in the sense of ‘use’ not apply for a university or a job (that would be postuler à).

    • Replies: @Anon
  90. Anonymous[217] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anonymous

    You don’t know Massachusetts then. Even the few black people around are named Sean Finnegan or Kevin O’Connell

  91. DFH says:
    @Massimo Heitor

    2. Open Admissions: Why stop any students from buying education? If someone wants to take a math class, why deny them the right to buy a seat in the class?

    At my university, there was absolutely nothing to stop anyone from walking into the lectures. I don’t even remember anyone ever checking my ID card or anything. I brought my girlfriend into a couple of lectures she was interested in without any problem whatsoever.

    • Replies: @Massimo Heitor
  92. ic1000 says:
    @Achmed E. Newman

    [Racial quotas for the descendants of American slaves and American aboriginals] sounds like a crock to me, actually. NONE of these people were slaves in their youth. NONE of the white and Oriental people to be discriminated against by these quotas has EVER owned, much less whipped and chained, ANY slaves in their whole entire lives. Where the hell is this fairness?

    Well, if you elected me Emperor, that’s what you’d get. In my view of the founding of the US, slaves and aboriginals got the way-short end of the stick. Disadvantages carry forward to their present-day descendants. Yeah, it’s not that simple. Real life never is. Yeah, choices matter. But so do circumstances.

    In practical terms, given the realities of HBD, US society would have major added problems as a meritocracy. Cops (etc.) in my rust-belt city would be almost all white. Would that be optimal for residents’ quality of life or for racial comity? [No.] The high-status, lucrative professions would be 25% Ashkenazi, 25% East Asian, 10% Brahmin, 15% 1%’er Gentile, 20% prole/middle class Gentile, 2% immigrant African, 1% Talented Tenth African American, 2% Mestizo/”Hispanic”. Further inflaming race-based resentments, the glorious and inevitable fruit of Diversity worship. (I dunno, maybe importing an overclass and importing added stoop labor wasn’t such a great idea, after all.)

    So. (1) Stop Digging — end mass immigration. E-Verify. Sanction employers. Build a wall. (2) Quotas or bonus points for African Americans, also members of Native American tribes. Genealogy showing descent from a US slave. Points should be pro rated — based on percentage West African descent from an ancestry.com SNP chip. (3) Recent immigrants would have a legitimate beef — they came to ride the Affirmative Action gravy train, but then Emperor ic1000 changed the rules in the middle of the game. Fair enough, no Calvinball. Take my offer of a complimentary one-way ticket home plus a Thanks-For-Playing cash bonus. Or stay, and play by the same rules as (almost) every other American.

    Not perfect, but far better than the present system. And, per Steve, it highlights the zero-sum-game aspect of giveaways, cf. the perverse incentives to grievance leaders to maximize their groups’ numbers and influence.

    Best of all, some fraction of Obama-Holder-Boddie-NPR commissar-led Conversations might be replaced by actual conversations about real issues.

    • Agree: Mr. Rational
  93. @TheMediumIsTheMassage

    Yep, it’s why I am against that nice, black couple moving into my neighborhood. They may be fine, but their children and relatives won’t be.

    People around here don’t like it when I point this out, but here’s an HBD fact: You should judge an individual by their race if you will be interacting with their family or future generations.

    • Agree: Mr. Rational
  94. Anyway, the college application essay is at present one of the ways young people are instructed that being whiny and woke is the way to get ahead in The Current Year. Restricting essays to impersonal topics — E.g., Write about something you have learned and why it’s interesting — would be a good way instead to get across the message that college is for learning about the real world.

    Excellent suggestion Steve.

    Everyone knows the current college application essays are a giant b.s.ing exercise. (These things weren’t like this when i was applying.)

    And it’s a very feminine drama-queen sort of thing. Off-putting and unpleasant, i believe, to actual potential “scholars” who are people interesting in “the world”, rather than being absorbed in their own drama. Most people–certainly most people who are “college material”–don’t have an exciting story at 17. They haven’t done anything yet. And this is even more true of those with the IQ and personality to have a scholarly bent.

    An essay that is instead outward directed would be a great corrective. Even that as an option would be a great corrective–immediately separating the wheat fromt the chaff.

    ~~

    My core political program regarding college would be to try and get rid of it for most students, via a program of competency exams by which people could show capability/mastery in various areas.

    But to the extent it’s valuable, it’s depressing that there is such a market failure for colleges teaching the traditional Western canon, with a traditional/conservative “preserving our culture and civilization” ethos. There’s Hillsdale. There are probably some more conservative Roman Catholic small colleges. But given the numbers it’s pretty bleak. There are thousands of mediocre liberals arts colleges out there … and they are essentially all on the “diversity” train–spewing the same nonsense, even though it’s a saturated market and many are failing.

    If i had a few billion burning a hole in my pocket i’d takeover a liberal arts college and turn it around. My program:
    – traditional Western canon, not just cirriculum but as mission statement
    – non-sectarian but religiously friendly;
    – no diversity bullshit; no propaganda, no bureaucracy
    – no bullshit “studies” departments
    – no bullshit happy talk, modern joke courses
    – HBD shaped anthropology
    – HBD shaped/awareness in all social sciences
    – core program; everyone required to have obtain basic mathematical, scientific, HBD and “can read a graph”, “can understand statistics” understanding
    – no gay, LBGTQWERTY allowed
    – no intercollegiate b.s. or at least no recruiting, but lots of intramural sports and physical outdoor activities for men and women and coed
    and
    – strong emphasis on promoting marriage
    — separate mens/womens dorms
    — lots of sponsored social/mixing events
    — eharmony style match making services
    — dating (old definition) and courting culture
    — hostility to hookup/drunken sex culture including sanctions and explusions
    — celebratory culture–developing into tradition–of graduates getting married
    (including subsidies in terms of use of facilities, etc.)
    — program to allow Mrs. degreed girls leaving to finish up on-line
    — eharmony style program for graduates to match up, including (for older established males) to match up with younger current co-eds

    Basically the idea would be to recreate a sane, traditional college environment from before the great unravelling.

    • Replies: @anonymous
  95. Jack D says:
    @ic1000

    This has always been the tension in American life. Are Americans to be evaluated as individuals or as members of certain groups or races? The problem is that for 200 years, America evaluated people as group members (e.g. black vs. white, Christian vs. Jew, etc.). On paper we paid lip service to the idea that all humans are to be treated individually because we knew that is what is right, but that’s all it was – lip service. Then one fine day we say, “that’s all over with now.” It doesn’t work that way, even if the day was 50 or 60 years ago. Once you have created an elaborate hierarchy of group rights and group handicaps around which your whole society was formerly structured , it doesn’t just disappear from your national psyche .

    Once upon a time America really did have a totem pole with white Christian men legally enshrined on top. You can’t just saw down the pole and expect that from now on we are going to live without totem poles. Those totem poles were put up for a reason – humans are hierarchical and egalitarian systems (whether social or economic) are unnatural and hard work to maintain. It’s much easier to operate within a simple rules-based hierarchy than to negotiate social relationships one at a time – you just glance at the pole, figure out where you are on it and where the other person is on it and then you know how it is supposed to go. Without the totem pole, we are at a loss. So naturally, when the old pole was cut down, the response was to put up an new totem pole – maybe even pick up the old one and flip it upside down – that’s an easy solution and on a certain crazy level seems “fair” – you rode in the front of the bus for 200 years, now it’s our turn to ride in front of the bus. The people who used sit up front won’t like it, but they are not in a good position to complain because they invented the whole idea of sorting people into front/back and defended it for as long as they could.

    • Agree: Johann Ricke
  96. Christo says:

    Will never happen honestly due to “disparate impact” .

  97. Jack D says:
    @Lowe

    When the Left wants to, it has no problems blocking any possible end runs around non-discrimination laws. They invent the most subtle mechanisms to detect unconscious bias. Even if you give everyone the same test, if this results in a discriminatory effect, we call this “disparate impact” and prohibit it. There are many such doctrines in the law to prevent any possible end run around the civil rights regime – you impose simple hard and fast rules and throw out lots of babies with the bath water and force employers to hire unqualified people but it’s all for a good cause so any collateral damage is OK . But only when they WANT IT. If it is something that they don’t want, or affects a sacred cow like Harvard, suddenly it’s an impossible problem – no human could ever figure this out, it’s too complex.

    Under a post affirmative action regime, if you applied the Left’s own rules against them, you wouldn’t have to make D’Shawntavious change his name or force him to write his essay about yachts and regattas instead of all the suffering he has endured. All you would need to do is compare the admission rate of say blacks vs Asians with similar SAT scores and grades and if the black rate was higher we would presume that the applications were being read in a race conscious way and punish Harvard appropriately for breaking the law.

    We don’t force every employer to audition their employees behind curtains like orchestra musicians. Instead we just look at the results – if the results are skewed then we just legally presume discrimination and the employer has to come up with a process that doesn’t discriminate. It can be a curtain but it doesn’t HAVE to be. Most employers manage to comply with the law without the use of curtains.

    Harvard has some really smart people. There came a point where their application readers were told that they should stop giving Chauncey extra points for having prepped at Choate and they did it. So if they tell their readers to stop giving D’Shawntavious extra points for having prepped at MLK High, they would do that too. It’s not impossible.

    How would this work in real life? The dirty little secret is that admissions is all done now with secret quotas so all they have to do is change the secret quotas and problem fixed.

    • Agree: Johann Ricke
  98. Boddie is right but not for the reasons that she thinks.

    We live in a multi-racial society. Multi-racial societies eventually break down along racial lines. Government isn’t so much about ideology but about dividing up the pie. Harvard admissions are very important in this society so they should be divvied up among the races, with amounts determined by the power of each group.

    That’s the world that we’re headed toward. Personally, I find it a very ugly world, but it’s at least a lot more honest that what we have.

  99. Lowe says:
    @Trevor H.

    Well, yes, because they believe in the ideology of racial preferences. However, we should hope for a situation where they have to hide their evildoing, lest they get sued. They should slink and lurk like the villains they are.

    Like JackD said in another reply, if affirmative action were struck down, and if you obtained data on admissions decisions, test scores, grades, etc. for applicants, you could use that data to show an admissions department favors one racial groups over others. Basically you could use disparate impact reasoning against them.

    All we need is a major decision that says racial preferences are illegal. Then universities can be sued if their racial biases ever come to light (which they will). That is the ideal situation, one the universities richly deserve, and one that goes some ways to silencing their self-righteous, anti-white, anti-Asian racist rhetoric.

    • Agree: Mr. Rational
  100. anonymous[572] • Disclaimer says:
    @Spud Boy

    I would love to see Trump take on the Academic Welfare state and lower tuition. Of course, there would be a lot of unemployed liberals but we’re willing to make that sacrifice.

  101. anonymous[572] • Disclaimer says:
    @AnotherDad

    I believe that BYU comes close in quite a few categories.

    “Even the course selection at BYU reflects an emphasis on marriage. While many universities offer one or two marriage and family classes to their students, BYU offers courses focused on mate selection, marriage preparation, marriage enhancement, marriage therapy, and multiple classes aimed at strengthening the family.”

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Student_life_at_Brigham_Young_University

  102. anonymous[572] • Disclaimer says:
    @BigDickNick

    And the reality is that very, very few of those South Side blacks are getting into the Ivies. Harvard hides the fact that they fill their black quotas with many applicants who are African immigrants, from the Caribbean, or are wealthy.

    • Replies: @Anon
  103. Anonymous[180] • Disclaimer says:
    @L Woods

    They’ll cuck. They always do. And even if they don’t, the institutions will just defy them.

    Not just a surrender monkey, but a pre-emptive one. Pathetic, the Kav affair was supposed to stiffen the spines of wimps like you.

    • Replies: @L Woods
  104. Amen says:

    Stephen Miller proposed ending Chinese student visas to counter espionage:

    http://www.insidehighered.com/quicktakes/2018/10/03/report-stephen-miller-pushed-ending-chinese-student-visas

    The Financial Times said that Miller, an advocate for hard-line immigration policies, urged the president to end student visas for Chinese citizens to counter Chinese espionage. The article noted that while the discussion mostly dealt with concerns about spying, Miller also said the ban would hurt elite universities where staff and students have been critical of Trump.

    The idea was debated then Trump decided against it because of the fear of economic and diplomatic impact.

    Considering how many high ranking Chinese officials are sending their kids to college in the US, this would probably be the most powerful tool we could use in the ongoing trade dispute. Trump needs to seriously consider this. Personally I’m sick and tired of our state flagship being swallowed whole by Chinese nationals. I’m all for such a plan.

    • Replies: @Jack D
  105. Pat Boyle says:
    @The Alarmist

    I can remember when there were still anthropologists who believed that humans emerged from Asia. But no one thinks that any more. We are all African descended. So everyone can check the African-American box on the application.

    I took a half semester of Spanish in high school. So I can legitimately claim to be Hispanic too.

    I’m working on a way to be counted as Amerindian. I think I have “High Cheek Bones”.

    Then there’s always “Recovered Memory” and Bridey Murphy. I seem to remember being a Chinese coolie in a previous life.

    With some effort and a little imagination I no longer fear racial discrimination. I am everything and everyone.

  106. I helped my daughter write a humorous essay titled “The Top 10 Things I’ve Learned in Life So Far”. As others have pointed out, 17 year olds have not done much of anything and all the “I spent last summer helping Muslim AIDS patients in Botswana” are so much bs. I am sure the people who read this tripe want to stab their eyeballs after the 300th one.

    Daughter did get into Tech.

    • Replies: @black sea
  107. L Woods says:
    @Anonymous

    Last time I checked, I wasn’t on the Supreme Court. It’s not up to me.

  108. @Lurker

    Or . . . what happens with with white Hispanics? Or rather white people with Spanish surnames?

    That would depend on their party registration.

    • Replies: @Anon
  109. @keuril

    I never thought about the trademark aspect, though I still think it’s putting on airs. I expect to pay more at a shop then at a shoppe, which is why you won’t find me in a shoppe, unless I’m there as a last resort.

  110. @Lowe

    State schools are an unqualified success

    That’s like calling Africa an unqualified success because that continent has been much slower at adopting the faddish perversions of the more prosperous ones.

  111. @ic1000

    I still don’t agree, IC, but if you were emperor, I’m sure I’d be happier about the country than how I feel about it now. I had a long explanation in my head of what to write you back, but I’ll make a blog post on my site, and link to it, and write more under another post, I guess.

  112. @Pat Boyle

    I’m working on a way to be counted as Amerindian.

    That’s an easy one. If they have a check box for “Native American”, then check it. You are, and that’ll get you in like Flint.

    • Replies: @Anon
  113. @ic1000

    If you could run on that platform you’d get a truly scary* number of people voting for it.

    * to the diversicrats

  114. @Trevor H.

    You’re just jealous because you haven’t figured it out yourself.

    • Replies: @Trevor H.
  115. @Pat Boyle

    Not so fast on “We’re are all out of Africa.” They found hominid teeth near Eppelsheim, Germany (between Mainz and Worms) that seem to predate similar hominid teeth found in Africa by a few million years. Mainstream Science is pooh-poohing the politically incorrect nature of this by stating that the teeth actually come from a “mystery primate.” Maybe different, or maybe narrative collapse? Fortunately for MSS and the prevailing OoA naarative, the corroborating evidence is as substantial as that of Chrissy Blasey Ford.

    I learned in the ’80s that you could go places by identifying as an African American, so I’ve been identifying as such since then; my hair is as wiry as Liz Warren’s cheekbones are Indigenous, so why not?

    • Replies: @Jack D
    , @Mr. Rational
  116. @DIscharged EE

    Private universities used to allow their students access to admission data for thesis work, before it became a subject of Federal investigations and lawsuits. There are Harvard sociology students who crunched data from the admission office for their PhD’s. Stanford changed its admission policies after a student complained that the Asian admission rate was too low, was shown the data, and further documented his point using that data. At Caltech they had economics professors creating models of the admission process (this was before every school had an Institutional Research office with statisticians).

    The admissions was more opaque then, but trust was higher.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
  117. @academic gossip

    The 1985 book “Choosing Elites” by social scientist Robert Klitgaard is based on statistical studies Harvard’s admissions department ran in the 1970s on how to do Affirmative Action as well as possible.

    • Replies: @academic gossip
  118. Jack D says:
    @Amen

    The argument is made that by educating them in the US you convert the next generation to American values. We have bitter experience with this – Yamamoto attended Harvard. While this gave him some insight into the American character (he told the Japanese militarists that in order to win the war, they would not only have to take Guam and the Philippines, they would have to take Washington) it did not prevent him, when push came to shove, from using the skills that he gained in the US against the US and for his own country. Likewise, experience at West Point did not stop Robert E. Lee from fighting for his native Virginia and against the Union. And then you have the Qutb/Atta problem where life in the West just causes you to hate the West even more.

    • Agree: Mr. Rational
    • Replies: @Anon
    , @Johann Ricke
  119. @Steve Sailer

    He was a student, professor and deep insider there, and an econometrician. Did he do the studies himself (as at Caltech, where faculty did the analysis)? Or did Harvard already have institutional researchers as staff in the 1980′s?

    “Klitgaard received A.B., M.P.P., and Ph.D. degrees from Harvard University. ….. [was] Associate Professor of Public Policy at Harvard’s John F. Kennedy School of Government, where he also served half-time as Special Assistant to Harvard’s President Derek Bok.”

    reading further in his biography,”He has been called “the world’s leading expert on corruption” “…

  120. Jack D says:
    @The Alarmist

    Very doubtful that the Eppelsheim teeth overturn Out of Africa. The consensus is that they are probably Pliopithecoid teeth – an extinct ape that was more like a gibbon than anything in the human line. You cannot collapse the whole body of paleontology (which is a real science and much more than just a “narrative”) based upon finding 3 teeth of ambiguous origin.

    • Replies: @The Alarmist
    , @Anon
  121. Iberiano says:
    @Lurker

    We receive limited, usually transactional A/A. It may be an entry point into some entry level job, but the fact is, most whites are highly attuned to “real” minorities (which typically means black, or very brown, accent-affected Latinos). However, when having a “minority” on staff counts for something, and it relates to a project or goal that needs actual intelligence, we usually get the “twofer” status.

  122. @Jack D

    Consensus is not science, and the science is definitely not settled.

  123. dux.ie says:
    @ic1000

    The rules are automatically generated from the raw data from CollegeData.com. States of applicants are important but the dataset are not large enough to resolve that. The data on legacy and athlete are sparse and not included. ## are comments inserted by me. Some tier1 universities are very open about AA selections, not like some that try to hide behind some smokes and mirrors. Since I stated the AA selection rules I better left the uni name out in case they might be swamped with AA applications.

    A different AA selection rule from another tier1 university, you can see the recurring high GPA and low SATeq combinations, explicit knowledge about ethnicity is not required,

    Rule 60:
    GPAW > 4.88
    SATM > 670
    SATeq <= 1440
    -> class Accepted [32.3%]
    ## low Math, below cutoff SATeq, AA applicant??

    • Replies: @academic gossip
  124. Anon[257] • Disclaimer says:
    @Jack D

    The problem is that the universities are anti American and anti White. Both American and foreign students are taught to hate America.

    So it works exactly opposite what the State Department intended 70 years ago. Obama’s alleged father was in the first cohort brought here to learn to
    love America and go home to be a pro American influence

    • Agree: Mr. Rational
  125. Anon[257] • Disclaimer says:
    @Achmed E. Newman

    Some places require a tribal certificate. Plus, the Indians aren’t the pets of the liberals. It’s safer to check black or Hispanic depending on your last name.

  126. Anon[257] • Disclaimer says:
    @Reg Cæsar

    When Republican Richard Nixon created the Hispanic race just in time for the 1970 census whoever wrote the executive order wrote that:

    Hispanic shall be anyone with origins in the country of Spain or any of its colonies. Portugual and it’s colonies are not Hispanic

    In practice it means Spanish last names

    All those Irish German Arab Italian and others who immigrated to Latin. America and changed their last names to Spanish ones are Hispanic for the purpose of affirmative action if they immigrate to the USA. If they didn’t change their names they are not eligible for affirmative action benefits.

    Of course half of W Europe was a Spanish colony from 1519 to 1554 but they didn’t change their names to Spanish names. Our commenter Jilles Dykstra is still enraged about this

    So the Dutch Belgians Austrians some Germans aren’t eligible for Hispanic affirmative action.

    Non Hispanic Whites mostly have the same last names as blacks so it’s better if we check the black box

    Affirmative action doesn’t recognize the difference between White Mixed and Indian Hispanics

    Former President of Mexico Vicente Fox is not Hispanic because of his last name, even though he is Mexican.

    There’s also something that Portugal is not really in the Iberian Penninsula
    although it really is on the Iberian penninsula

    I hope I’ve made it all clear

  127. Anon[257] • Disclaimer says:
    @Pat Boyle

    Don’t forget gay and transitioning gender changer.

  128. @william munny

    This summer we Calvinists attended a big prospective student event at the U of Chicago. The main speaker was their director/dean of admissions. He was pretty forthright in saying he and his department are so sick of the “I Have Over-cuh-uh-uhm’ application essay they were ready to collectively hurl. He was begging the applicants: please, write something intelligent and original.

    Now, whether he really meant it or not is another question, or whether it was meant only for certain applicants — who knows?

    Elite university admissions is a crapshoot/voodoo ritual if you’re not from one of the preferred demographics.

    BTW, Chicago gave off a weird vibe. Everybody — faculty, students, staff — talked really fast and loud, as if they were recordings playing at a 1.5x rate. There was an air of intellectual self-consciousness that I’ve not seen anywhere else — and we’ve visited a number of other elite universities. At the end of the event, they had an outdoor mingling/Q&A session where they handed out horrible red-white-and-blue popsicles to everybody (we wisely said no thanks). We were then treated to the bizarre spectacle of hundreds of prospective MacArthur Grant awardees wandering around with popsicle melt running off in sugary rivulets through their fingers and dripping onto their clothes. It was not very encouraging.

    • Replies: @Anon
  129. Anon[257] • Disclaimer says:
    @Jack D

    All liberal research is fraudulent
    Out of Africa is liberal research

    Therefore Out of Africa is fraudulent

  130. Anon[257] • Disclaimer says:
    @The Last Real Calvinist

    Is there a My Struggle essay required on the U of Chicago application? They why does the dean complain about it?
    It was the colleges who demand the essays.

    One of my sons knows someone who got into Stanford with the requisite GPA and SATs and a heart warming essay about his pet turtle

  131. Anon[257] • Disclaimer says:
    @anonymous

    Yes, the father of the underprivileged POC is an affirmative action big city police captain making 230 K a year and Mom is director of affirmative action hiring for the big city school district at 210K a year.

  132. black sea says:
    @Jim Don Bob

    I am sure the people who read this tripe want to stab their eyeballs after the 300th one.

    You’re assuming that someone actually reads them.

  133. @Jack D

    We have bitter experience with this – Yamamoto attended Harvard. While this gave him some insight into the American character (he told the Japanese militarists that in order to win the war, they would not only have to take Guam and the Philippines, they would have to take Washington) it did not prevent him, when push came to shove, from using the skills that he gained in the US against the US and for his own country.

    This man, the father of the Chinese nuclear and ballistic missile programs, should never have been admitted to the US:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qian_Xuesen

    On the other hand, his US-born nephew went on to win a Nobel prize:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roger_Y._Tsien

    https://www.nobelprize.org/prizes/chemistry/2008/tsien/auto-biography/

    Unfortunately, that nephew seems to have had no children with his Jewish wife. More and more, Romney being a prominent exception, our best and brightest don’t seem to be into the whole “be fruitful and multiply” exhortation.

    • Replies: @Jack D
  134. @dux.ie

    Computer jockeying + overinterpretation = mostly meaningless nonsense patterns.

    I will explain this in oversimplified terms to make the point instead of a 5x longer technically correct version.

    Your applicant data are effectively two dimensional, x= tests and y=grades. Imagine admission as a curve in this 2-dimensional (x,y) plane where everyone above the curve is admitted.

    What your rule-search has found is that in some narrow range of test scores, grades should generally be above some GPA to be admitted, and that in some narrow range of grades, tests should be above some score, i.e., some kind of rectangular “staircase” approximation to the curve is OK at the resolution you specified. After that the algorithm finds a rule to catch a cluster of outliers far below the curve, with a very low range of test scores (could be athletes, blacks, foreign students with very low English scores, relatives of donors and admission officers, …). It loosely quantifies the admission boundary somewhat but other than the outliers it’s impossible to guess in any detail what it means.

    • Replies: @Jack D
  135. @dux.ie

    I don’t know if your rules are modeling those admitted by the university or those who “admit” themselves into the applicant pool (by applying), but what you are picking up is that people with low test scores usually need very high GPA to be admitted (or “admitted”). There isn’t any reason to connect it with affirmative action or the idea that GPA/SAT can be used for racial profiling.

  136. @The Alarmist

    Remember, when you change the clocks it’s also time to change the battery in your sarcasm detector.

    Yours seems to have died a little early.

    • Replies: @The Alarmist
  137. Jack D says:
    @academic gossip

    You’re right that just finding a cluster of outliers doesn’t tell you who they are, but I think you’ve made a pretty good guess at who they are. If you find someone at Harvard with 1200 SATs and a 3.0 GPA, they are either black, a recruited athlete or Jared Kushner.

    dux.ie’s idea that you could “game” this rule is just wrong. If you or I tried to apply with those kind of #’s, they would just throw your application in the trash.

  138. Jack D says:
    @Johann Ricke

    Arguably the mistake was not letting him in in the first place but later alienating him by accusing him of being a Communist (which he was in a vague sort of way, but so were a lot of academics in the ’30s – e.g. everyone in Oppenheimer’s circle including his brother and his mistress – all the people who would be “liberals” today) and placing him under house arrest. Under Secretary of State Kimball, commented on his treatment: “It was the stupidest thing this country ever did. He was no more a Communist than I was, and we forced him to go.”

  139. Anon[777] • Disclaimer says:
    @DFH

    You are missing the humor of my anonymous colleague. This is what he means in English: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appliqu%C3%A9

  140. @Jack D

    As I said, it’s “mostly” nonsense, not all wrong. The outliers can be guessed, sort of. If the rest is just observing the tradeoff between grades and scores, then divining meaning from the particular rules is reading bird entrails.

    If you or I tried to apply with those kind of #’s, they would just throw your application in the trash.

    Well, there’s Ron’s theory of the Protocols Of The Elders Of Harvard Square. The newer hillel.org numbers are half of what he used, but the crypsis cops (Our American Inquisition) might say that’s a ruse.

    • Replies: @Anon
  141. Anon[777] • Disclaimer says:
    @academic gossip

    The newer hillel.org numbers are

    as random and untrustworthy as the old numbers. It really does not seem there is any reliable data out there on the topic. Curious, in our modern age of supersurveillance.

  142. @Jack D

    If you find someone at Harvard with 1200 SATs and a 3.0 GPA, they are either black, a recruited athlete or Jared Kushner.

    They have a remarkable streak of good picks from these categories, like Trump’s Luck that isn’t.

    One year the list of the top 10 highest paid hedge fund managers had at least three Harvard and Princeton hockey players. Barakett brothers and Phil Falcone. Their combined earnings were in the billions. If they throw a sliver of their lifetime earnings in the direction of alma mater, big win.

    Obama and wife. Kushner. Connected legacy athlete Kavanaugh (ok, Yale).

    It’s as though these schools have some experience with what factors predict success, use that to grow obscenely rich, and then decorate their money machine with a smarter group of eggheads and STEMlords than Caltech can afford to recruit, so as to keep academic prestige as part of the sales pitch:

    http://www.unz.com/isteve/what-college-rankings-really-measure/#comment-2561123

  143. CE6 says:

    Just make students apply without a name or a picture. The application would just have an identifying number.
    Actually, if you interpret the 14th Amendment strongly, no state university, or private university that takes federal funds, should be able to ask the race of an applicant at all. No government form should be able to ask that question either.

  144. @The Alarmist

    Is that sarcasm?

    If you can’t tell, you REALLY need to stop buying off-brand batteries for your sarcasm detector.

    (How many levels of meta are we now?  I lost count.)

  145. Bill B. says:
    @The Last Real Calvinist

    There’s only one way racial preferences can be kept out of college admissions: every applicant takes the same admissions exam or high school exit exam, and admission is awarded strictly on the basis of scores.

    That’s more or less what happens here in Hong Kong. It’s fair, definitely, but it raises a lot of other significant problem, e.g. teaching to the test, killing kids’ willingness to take risks in their choices of subjects, etc.

    Yes. But what happens where every applicant is AAA for a finite number of places?

    Not quite the same thing but I long time ago I once worked in Hong Kong for a newspaper when we decided to hire an extra business reporter by placing a very small ad in our own paper. The result was an avalanche of CVs from people who had better educational qualifications than anyone on the paper (of mostly old-style reporters and editors).

    We didn’t expect or require journalism experience because we didn’t think this would be available, at least with the appropriate english language skills. Please note most of these superb applications came from Hong Kong Chinese.

    The accompanying letters and other written material were mostly nice but of course worthless and provided no evidence at all that the writer could do the job which required flair and a certain measure of cunning as well as raw intelligence.

    In the end I think we poached a Chinese reporter from a rival paper.

    Clearly I was incompetent at hiring but I do still feel sympathy for anyone trying to select from any group of highly motivated people for any task requiring smarts and character.

  146. @DFH

    At my university, there was absolutely nothing to stop anyone from walking into the lectures. I don’t even remember anyone ever checking my ID card or anything. I brought my girlfriend into a couple of lectures she was interested in without any problem whatsoever.

    This is a terrible argument. Bryan Caplan makes this argument and it’s one of his weakest. Many universities allow non-students to audit classes for a small fee.

    If you’re going to pour serious effort into classes, you’re going to want grades, feedback, and yes some official accreditation.

  147. dux.ie says:
    @Jack D

    Here are the two characteristic sample profiles of the applications to a IvyLeague Tier1 and a Historically Black Universities and Colleges HBUC. These are representative of the natural spectrum of credible reasonably well qualified uni applicants. Different vertical slices of the spread will have different compositions of the unsaid ethnicities.

    The greenline is the regression line relating to the Tier1 common norm of the relationship betwen GPAW and SATeq, the higher the SATeq the higher the GPA. Those above the green regression line are those relatively have higher GPAWs than their SATeq scores will imply.

    The supreme court seemed to suggest that such resulting offer profiles is acceptable as long as the ‘R’ word is not mentioned explicitly. (I am not a lawyer).

    The inferred selection rules operate sequencially. For this particular Tier1 university the first part take in the cream (SATMath≥790 when the ceiling score is 800, or SATeq≥1560 when the ceiling score is 1600). Then the second step scrapped the bottom of the barrel for acceptance (SATeq≤1070 and ACT > 21) before rejecting the applicants with better academic performance (SATeq≤1400 or SATMath≤640). The inferred AA offers had no condition on SATMath. Now someone is saying that that was not a AA conscious selection method?

    If the applicants require AA to be accepted, then their performances tended to be towards the lower left end of the profile clusters left of the nominal cutoff SATeq score. As can be seen from the real (self reported) data those on the left of the cluster tended to have higher GPAWs than the common norm, and they tended to blend in with the top end of the HBUC1 clusters. Between 1200<=sateq and sateq<=1450 the magnitute of the residuals is 0.305 whereas the other side is 0.121, i.e. high GPA low SATeq dominates.

    Those at the far end tail of the Tier1 cluster were most probably those athletic admissions. Those exceptional applicants in the HBUC1 cluster with high SATeq were most probably got scholarships from HBUC1 but their GPAWs were not high enough to get scholarships from Tier1 university.

    There are other tricks the Tier1 unis can used to get similar effects without mentioning the 'R' word, such as pareto selections, or the selection based exclusively on GPA without SAT or ACT like UChicago boasted recently.

    https://www.insidehighered.com/admissions/article/2018/06/19/university-chicago-drops-satact-requirement

    Historically UChicago seems to have already test driven their scheme, their acceptance profile is statistically independent of SAT or ACT (SATeq), one of the rare 2 Tier1 and Tier2 unis out of about 20 which have mostly statistically very significant selection with SATeq scores. Note the few applicants with perfect GPAW=5 but SATeq<1515 the previous nominal cutoff or even below SATeq 1350. They can even boast about not having any explicit AA selection rules. The other potential future bombshell could be, ta la, MIT, which has a profile similar to that for UChicago.

    The recipe for being sued in court for selection bias? Rejecting majority of bitter applicants with PERFECT SATeq=1600 and accepting applicants with very low SATeq. Note the above Tier1 uni ACCEPTED the majority of the elite applicants.

    • Replies: @academic gossip
  148. dux.ie says:
    @Jack D

    There are many cases in CollegeData.com that showed the behaviours of the applicants. For example someone with perfect SATeq=1600 but unable to game the system (no plan B) in the sense that to be able to secure at least one concrete offer,

    ID|State|Class|Status|SATeq|GPAW|Uni
    AAA|MI|2022|Applied|1600||Brown
    AAA|MI|2022|Applied|1600||Cornell
    AAA|MI|2022|Applied|1600||Duke
    AAA|MI|2022|Applied|1600||MIT
    AAA|MI|2022|Applied|1600||Princeton
    AAA|MI|2022|Applied|1600||Stanford
    AAA|MI|2022|Applied|1600||UChicago
    AAA|MI|2022|Applied|1600||UPenn
    AAA|MI|2022|Applied|1600||Yale
    AAA|MI|2022|Wait-Listed|1600||Caltech

    Then you have someone like this from NY with SATeq=990, not legacy, not athlete, did not bother to apply to the local CUNYs, nor the local SUNYs, nor even the local ivy-leagues Columbia or Cornell, but only to the top 2 ivy leagues and got accepted,

    EEE|NY|2021|Accepted|990|3.79|Harvard
    EEE|NY|2021|Denied|990|3.79|Princeton

    Was that gaming the system?

    • Replies: @academic gossip
  149. @dux.ie

    The inferred selection rules operate sequencially. For this particular Tier1 university the first part take in the cream (SATMath≥790 when the ceiling score is 800, or SATeq≥1560 when the ceiling score is 1600). Then the second step scrapped the bottom of the barrel for acceptance (SATeq≤1070 and ACT > 21) before rejecting the applicants with better academic performance (SATeq≤1400 or SATMath≤640). The inferred AA offers had no condition on SATMath. Now someone is saying that that was not a AA conscious selection method?

    Bird entrails again (haruspicy). All of your rules have an implicit SAT Math condition, because all the test scores strongly correlate with SAT math. You don’t have to actually specify it in terms of the SATMath variable for that to be true. It’s like saying there is no IQ requirement because they only look at SAT and grades, which would be complete nonsense. The correct interpretation of the conditions is total test score “quality” is in a particular range.

    What you found is the obvious. They admit at very high rates people with very high scores, and also a special “recruited” group (could be AA, athletes, donors, students for a special nonacademic program, etc) by different procedures that accept much lower scores. For the rest of the applicants, a tradeoff between grades and test scores. Nothing new there.

    Historically UChicago seems to have already test driven their scheme, their acceptance profile is statistically independent of SAT or ACT (SATeq)

    Extremely unlikely. SAT optionality makes it less dependent of SAT but not by that much.

  150. @dux.ie

    Fata morgana. Data from self-reported college admission sites is incomplete (e.g., omitting lower-ranked and safety schools) and sometimes fake, especially the “1600 SAT, apply everywhere” profiles.

    If the SAT 990 profile is real and complete, it may be someone personally recruited to apply by Harvard, with a promise of admission. That is done for some athletes and other special cases every year. Recruitment at such a low SAT means an Olympic MVP quality hockey player or Bloomberg’s grandson with a generous thank-you gift.

  151. News:

    NY Times report on day 1 of the Harvard admission trial says that Harvard lowers the admission standard specifically for rural white applicants.

    This hilariously contradicts 99% of the articles and comments on Unz.com that rural white gentiles are “obviously” discriminated against and more than any other group.

    It also is the first known example of a procedural difference in the handling of white and Asian applications. It remains to be seen whether there are compensating differences helping Asians over whites in other categories. Presumably the number of places affected by the advantage for rural whites is small since there are few of them enrolled and the size of the preference is reported to be small, so this may well be illegal but cannot be the source of the overall Asian underadmission relative to standard qualifications like SAT scores.

  152. @academic gossip

    Harvard has long been said to want to recruit elites from obscure states like Idaho. My Shakespeare professor at Rice, Dr. Grob, always complained about how colleges that want to have a “national” student body discriminate against Jews. (Rice had a bias in favor of Texans stemming from William Marsh Rice’s will that he wanted his college to help build up Texas, and Dr. Grob

    Dr. Grob had a famous line about how a Harvard admissions officer had said that there was a “doughnut” around certain Eastern cities like New York, Philadelphia, Boston, and Cleveland that were loaded with so many high scoring students that they could just fill their classes from those doughnuts, but instead they look to get the best students from the Dakotas and places like that, even if they weren’t quite as smart as the doughnut kids. Dr. Grob riposted: “Those aren’t doughnuts, those are bagels!’

    Looks like he was stealing the line from a 1971 article in the Harvard Crimson by Michael Kinsley, future superstar editor.

    “Peterson said these doughnuts included such areas as Westhester County and Long Island, N.Y., suburban New Jersey, and Shaker Heights, Ohio. When he described these areas to the Jewish faculty members, one stood up and said, “Dr. Peterson, those aren’t doughnuts, they’re bagels.””

    https://www.thecrimson.com/article/1971/1/27/admissions-policy-from-dollars-to-doughnuts/

  153. @Steve Sailer

    The faculty member who said “it’s a bagel” was Henry Rosovsky. Or at least he told that story with himself as the one providing the line.

  154. @Steve Sailer

    My Shakespeare professor at Rice, Dr. Grob, always complained about how colleges that want to have a “national” student body discriminate against Jews.

    Like every other part of the Evil Ivy Admissions narrative, that might have been true in his day but is 60 years out of date. It has nothing to do with keeping out Jews (or Asians) any more.

    If you want to build a modern money- and talent-hoarding powerhouse of a university then national reach is important; considering athletics and nonacademic factors is important (even for the goal of selecting the highest IQ applicants); even the stupid application essays make rational game-theoretic sense although they could probably be replaced by something less irritating.

    Today, geographic diversity favors admission of Jews, Asians, and children of Ivy League elites because the people with high academic metrics in underrepresented states are concentrated in gentrified liberal islands (typically university towns) with those demographics. If Harvard is favoring genuine rural whites using whiteness as an admissions marker that’s means it is, to its credit, trying to introduce real geographic diversity and not just admitting the same profile of people it could have taken from San Francisco but happen to live in Iowa.

  155. @academic gossip

    Correction: the Harvard testimony in NYTimes was about differences in recruiting (i.e. soliciting applications from high scoring students), not admission. Harvard has not yet conceded any functional difference between white and Asian applications in their admission process. Trial should last a few weeks.

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