The Unz Review: An Alternative Media Selection
A Collection of Interesting, Important, and Controversial Perspectives Largely Excluded from the American Mainstream Media
 TeasersiSteve Blog
What Do Women Really Want?
🔊 Listen RSS
Email This Page to Someone

 Remember My Information



=>

Bookmark Toggle AllToCAdd to LibraryRemove from Library • BShow CommentNext New CommentNext New ReplyRead More
ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
AgreeDisagreeLOLTroll
These buttons register your public Agreement, Disagreement, Troll, or LOL with the selected comment. They are ONLY available to recent, frequent commenters who have saved their Name+Email using the 'Remember My Information' checkbox, and may also ONLY be used once per hour.
Ignore Commenter Follow Commenter
Search Text Case Sensitive  Exact Words  Include Comments
List of Bookmarks

Commenter SomethingToSay argues that the immense success of the Fifty Shades of Grey franchise is hardly surprising from a Darwinian viewpoint:

What do women want? Let’s look at their sexual fantasies. In my long years, I’ve known large numbers of women with drawers and e-readers full of “romance novels”. The story lines and characterizations are generally all the same. They are the Cinderella story recast:

There are one and more women between Cinderella and the Prince, who is handsome, charming, and has lots of money, status, and power. Cinderella acts to remove the female competition between her and the Prince so that she can take her rightful place as the Princess of the realm. The story line is generally consumed by scenes of females going at each other as they compete for the Alpha Male. The “bodice ripping” at the end of the chapters are thinly veiled rape fantasies. The Prince eventually finds Cinderella so “hot” that he cannot control himself. His lack of control excites her … because, it represents her final victory over the female competition who are unable to drive the Prince to sexual frenzy. The final scene fades as Cinderella takes her rightful place on the throne next to the Prince. Cinderella and the Prince live happily ever after.

What do little girls (in waiting) want? It appears to be much the same, given the success of the Princess movies and the paraphernalia in the Princess Industry.

The feminist assumption of female solidarity appears to be more of a lesbian fantasy than a characteristic of the real world.

 
Hide 211 CommentsLeave a Comment
Commenters to Ignore...to FollowEndorsed Only
Trim Comments?
  1. yeah, this book could be seen as a repudiation of feminism

  2. I wouldn’t be surprised if lesbians had ‘Princess charming’ fantasies that included ripping of the appropriate garments.

  3. The feminist assumption of female solidarity appears to be more of a lesbian fantasy than a characteristic of the real world.

    Along these lines, it’s interesting to note that the “Bechdel Test” was devised by a Lesbian:

    The Bechdel test asks if a work of fiction features at least two women who talk to each other about something other than a man.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bechdel_test

    Of course, the bulk of literature written by heterosexual women from Jane Austen on down has largely consisted of women talking about Mr Darcy and who is going to land him.

    • Replies: @Benjamin I.Espen
    I have always found it humorous that the books women like the most fail the Bechdel test. False conciousness!
    , @yojimbo/Zatoichi
    Perhaps a question should be asked: Do lesbians truly understand heterosexual women? Or are they so testosteroned up that their understanding tends to lean more toward a masculine perspective of understanding the world at large? (e.g. throughout the centuries of time, men have lamented that they "don't understand women" etc.).

    In other words, among the least likely of people to understand (straight) women would tend to be lesbians? Lesbians may actually understand straight men much better than their own gender (those that are straight) at large.
    , @Art Deco
    Bechdel test asks if a work of fiction features at least two women who talk to each other about something other than a man.

    Named for a woman for whom trashing her father 25 years after the fact was a career move (much to the consternation of her immediate family).
    , @ben tillman

    The Bechdel test asks if a work of fiction features at least two women who talk to each other about something other than a man.
     
    That's hilarious and brilliant.
  4. “What is best in life?”

    “To spread rumors about your enemies. To make everyone see what spoiled, ugly sluts they are. To enjoy bodice-ripping lovemaking with that hot, dreamy guy that is way too good for them but sees you for what a special, beautiful person you are.”

    “That is good! That is good!”

    -Conanette

  5. Gay Men vs Lesbians:

    People have noticed for a while now that these two groups don’t have much in common:

    But one of the things that most clearly distinguishes the two groups involves their relationship with heterosexuals of the opposite sex.Gay men are quite attracted to Straight men (glance through Gay male personals.”Str8t acting” is probably the single most desired trait in a paramour), but they know that Straight guys are just not interested.Men are just too consistent in their sexual orientation.Therefore, tension between Gay men and Straight women is quite low.

    For Lesbians, though, it is quite different.Female sexuality is less fixed, more open to ideology and contingency.Hence, Lesbians can fantasize about how they can get Straight women.It’s just a matter of separating them from Straight men (cf Lesbian Separatist SF novels like Joanna Russ’ The Female Man, etc).This being the case, Lesbians strongly resent Straight men.They are two predators seeking the same prey.

    • Replies: @Anonymous Nephew
    "They are two predators seeking the same prey."

    Which is one reason why the feminists who run "women's refuges" in the UK are very keen on keeping all men away - fathers and brothers of victims included. Lots of vulnerable women under one roof - what could possibly go wrong ?

    (Btw, the prince will always be handsome and powerful, but not always charming - often haughty and/or arrogant to our heroine. Remember - chicks dig jerks ?)

    , @Simon in London
    Yes, this means there is a certain sort of lesbian who has anti-male solidarity. But without men in the picture they will compete cattily with each other. This is the kind of lesbian who writes academic books about the evils of men. These lesbians are basically female-brained, like Andrea Dworkin.

    The other, more male-brained sort of lesbian gets along ok with men, they think much alike, but in the absence of men will form a bruderbond with her fellow lesbians, just as men do with their comrades. This is the sort of lesbian who plays womens' sports.
  6. Let’s be fair – romance novels are usually pornography, and pornography reflects what gets the target audience hot and bothered. It’s not a great guide to the totality of that audience’s desires, which are usually a bit more complex than what pushes their buttons; just as what men want from a sexual or romantic relationship is generally more complex than breasts and buttocks, although those visual signals tend to dominate characteristically-visual male porn, ‘what women want’ isn’t simple or invariant across time.

    Women want a lot of things, some mutually incompatible. So it goes.

    • Replies: @PatrickH
    This is perhaps the most sensible comment I've seen on the subject of sexual fantasy v real life desires.
  7. Anonymous • Disclaimer says: • Website

    In this same line..
    After looking for long for a primary explanation for sex differences, it seems there is recently (from 1991, but most of the supporting evidence appearing in the last 5-10 years) a solid theory, which encompasses previous ones: the male genetic filter function. Steve Moxon does a tremendous job explaining it in his book, but i can try to summarize:

    The goal of a population is maximizing local longer-term reproduction (long-term reproduction=sustained reproduction, implies good quality offspring).
    Sexual reproduction has advantages (adaptivity to changing environments..), but two main bottlenecks: 1) large investment in growing/caring for the child, and 2) eliminating deleterious mutations from the population.
    Instead of loading two bottlenecks on all individuals (and have no sex-differentiation), reproduction becomes more efficient if each bottleneck is handled by separate types of individuals.
    Female and males have evolved to take care of these two bottlenecks, respectively.

    The female specialization is clear. The male one means that males must compete fiercely for a rank in a hierarchy. The position in this hierarchy assigns ‘reproduction rights’. Most males left without reproducing, and a small minority at the top that reproduce widely.
    The females then choose the highest ranked men for mating. The non-mating, low-ranked males are ‘filtering out’ bad genes (typically deleterious mutations) by simply not reproducing.

    Two examples of this: sports, and duels. Sports happen to have a tournament structure, with enough fighting to establish a ranking, but not all pairs fight, which would be wasteful.
    Women like it when two men fight for her. This establishes which is the ‘better’ one, and she goes with the winner.
    The action the contenders carry out is important, it wouldn’t work if the two contenders simply ‘take a walk in the park together’ for her, it must be some sort of competition/fight, as to help her determine their relative rank in the hierarchy.

    This simple theory seems to have a lot of evidence backing it up, and is a primary biological explanation.
    It also implies that, at the very top of the hierarchy, the competition among women, and for the top men, must be fierce, as there are many more women than top men.

    • Replies: @Le Biel
    Human males also act as deleterious allele filters because they only have one copy of the X chromosome. This also implies that there should be a wider range for many characters in males than females (higher highs and lower lows).
  8. “The feminist assumption of female solidarity appears to be more of a lesbian fantasy than a characteristic of the real world.”

    Assume higher testosterone and alpha-male qualities among lesbians.
    Assume their (male-analogue) attraction to lower-testosterone, high-feminine-quality females

    So is the feminist assumption/fantasy of female solidarity in fact a fantasy of (femme) submission to (butch) leadership? Leadership through reasoned argument etc etc etc, but leadership none the less?

  9. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    Fifty Shades of Grey must be one of the very worst books published in recent years. It’s a sick joke of its own self parody of sheer awfulnesd, incidentally just like that other great female dominated area of mass entertainment, the soap opera.
    Whenever I hear the name of that trashy book and film I’m always reminded of that old English saying ‘seven shades of shit’ as in ‘I’ll knock seven shades of shit out of you’.

    • Replies: @Michelle
    You know what? This novel appealed to millions of women. I have not read it, but I work at a major public library and it has been on hold in more than one language, for years and years now. Whether it is badly written or not, and I think it is, given the few pages I have been subjected to during processing the books, it hits the spot of many, many women. I sense that many men feel threatened by the book. No one is reading it for "the articles", as they used to say about Playboy.

    Porn for men is based on the desires of men, porn for women, written by women, is based on the desires of women. I have never understood the basically gay male nature of male directed porn, men seem to desire to look at, up close and very personal, endless penises. I, on the other hand, have zero desire to see female sexual organs. I would much rather watch gay male porn than lesbian or straight porn. The male habit of looking at other naked males seems very gay to me and makes me feel uncomfortable toward the men who get off on such things. I don't like it, it creeps me out, but I let it slide, obviously, it serves some purpose.

    You need to let women slide on Fifty Shades of Gray. It turns them on, they can't help it, no matter how silly it may seem to you. Roll with it. Pull some hair, do some spanking! Pin somebody down, make them take it!

    When I was in my teens, a friend's mom, trapped in a hideous and abusive marriage, used to buy a lot of romance novels. My friend and I babysat for a lot of women's kids. We would pass the naughtiest romance novels around. One of the women we babysat for had a husband who loved for his wife to read romance novels. He told us, "She reads them next to me in bed. She will read a bit, then she will molest me! She'll read a bit more, then she will attack me! I don't know what's in them, but I love them!"
  10. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    In general women are obsessed about taking away men’s pornography and prostitution away from them. Have no doubt that this would be the very first action that will occur once, and I do mean once, the gynocracy ie the Democrat Party in full throttle, takes over.
    However, women are very keen to cling on to their own type of porn, and will brook no attempt from men to take it away from them, as if men even cared enough to do it.
    On a related note, the media circus surrounding DSK in France is in full swing. DSK is being painted as nasty, evil, perverted predator and the whores he hired as poor innocent lambs, victims and blameless.

    • Replies: @lagertha
    seriously, his (DSK) excuses (on record) are a major, duh...all your bs about "hired as poor innocent lambs" is even so much funnier...get a freaking life! DSK is a F***ing loser...I don't want to pay my EU contribution/tax to this old goat on Viagra while we have, like, serious shit exploding and killing Americans, EU citizens, African peacekeepers, Ebola volunteers, or soldiers representing EU & USA...people are dying and he is into his "Eyes Wide Shut shit ," fantasy....find your brains and balls.
    , @anon
    You need to be more nuanced. Pretty young women doing porn (and prostitution), the vast majority of them, are sweet attitude having young things who enjoy what they do and appreciate that they make HUGE money for doing something they enjoy.

    It is only the YKW women who invented feminism who try to ban porn and prostitution as exploiting women. The women themselves (except for actual kidnap-forced-prostitution victims, which are rare) don't feel exploited at all.

    The real reason YKW wants to ban porn and prostitution is that it is part of the overall goal of forcing men to "man up" and marry the post-CC and bad attitude having sluts. It's simply wealth transfer from men to women. Porn and prostitution gives men an outlet with honest, totally willing women who would rather cut to the chase instead of wasting money on dinner and wine.
  11. Female sexual arousal is switched on by attention from men (and sometimes just attention in general, hence lesbians’ occasional success with normal women). The higher status the man, the stronger the effect. The man’s arousal also arouses her.

    Men have objective sexuality — they see something they like and they want it, and are notoriously obtuse when it comes to the feelings of the object of their desire. Women have far more subjective sexuality in that when something they like notices them it turns them on. This is why professional photographers have such great success with women.

    The reason 50 shades is so popular is that all the bondage is taking sexual attention to an extreme. It’s like Cinderella on crack.

    It’s really pretty simple, but it’s surprising how few people actually know this and think there’s little difference between the sexes in this matter.

    BTW, I’d also argue that this explains feminists’ endless rants about male “objectification” — they highly resent the way human sexuality works in much the same manner that many men are frustrated by women’s insistence that men pay attention to their feelings.

    • Replies: @pork pie hat
    > when something they like notices them it turns them on.

    There's a book by a woman that makes that point - 'Open Her' by Karen Brody. Sort of a 'The Way of the Superior Man' by a woman, for men.
  12. If we consider that homosexual men have something of a female brain and desires in a male body (but with the high male sex drive), and lesbians have male brains and desires in a female body (and the low sex drive), does this explain some things?

    There is this predatory mindset to the male, that perhaps also surfaces in the lesbian. Two men vying for the one female will be scheming as to “how can I give the slip to the other guy”? Or “how can I make it a competition that plays to my strengths?”. This is the male role in the courtship, whereas for women it’s “Who do I want? How can I get him to notice me? How can I give enough of a teaser to excite and yet weed out those who are only looking for one thing? How can I get rid of the loser men that constantly target me and whom I want nothing to do with?”

    The lesbian, thinking like men, schemes to eliminate the opposition from contention. “I like feminine, attractive women, but they have no interest in a somewhat mannish dumpy woman, even if I cut my hair short and wear clothing for men. But… maybe it’s not an impossible mission, it’s just a problem to solve. These women could be out there. It sure would help to have an ideology that would encourage women to hate men. And if I were at the forefront of that ideology, it sure would be a good source of women, possibly feminine women to target. It’s not as silly as it sounds.”

  13. thinly veiled rape fantasies

    This is why the other side is winning without even working hard. People on this side don’t have a good understanding of words and how they are used.

  14. […] [email protected] (Vox) A commenter at Steve Sailer’s succinctly describes what women want:There are one and more women between Cinderella and the Prince, who is handsome, charming, and has […]

  15. Would that James’ books (and the Mormon Vampire series Twilight) clued us into some evolutionary struggle story for mating rights to Alpha Males–they’re much less interesting, much more childish. The old Cinderella theme was classic and very Western.

    James and Twilight are Heroine Adventure Stories–Prim and Proper (but Special) Heroine finds flawed monster-type Bad Male and risks everything to make him less flawed, even willing to sacrifice her humanity and blah, blah. If she works hard enough and makes him see that her love for him is all that matters, it will turn out all right. There’s absolutely no struggle between the Heroine and other females for the Bad Male. That would be too close to reality.

    This has been THE story line since WWII where young women are encouraged to seek the sexy, erratic and mysterious (misfits and fringe) rather than mundane and reliable, why so many married women see themselves as bored to death with their spouses, etc. Cinderalla’s Prince and Austen’s Darcy are reactionary, Ideal just because they are so boring–they are hardly Bad Boys–they’re guys who will provide the excellent means by which to raise a stable and successful family.

    Not surprisingly, the appreciation for this brainwashing (Bad Boy exciting and desirable) is at the lynchpin for all the Cads and seduction gurus out there, who encourage men to be complete Shits in order to attract women. Of course, miscegenation, out-of-wedlock birthing, all of it stems from this modern moronic romantic vision. There are no deb or coming out parties in the Bad Boy good story-line, where young women are paraded around for inspection–there’s just huge dollops of syrupy nonsense.

  16. I drove a dyke into an absolute snit a while back when her cat jumped up in my lap while I was sitting in her parlor. “She never does that with other people” my hostess replied with notable irritation. All of my various girlfriend’s dogs have always implicitly obeyed me and rightly so I might add.

  17. Normal Women do not have rape fantasies and there is no bodice ripping in best selling romance novels

    You’re reading way too much Roissy Steve and it’s affecting your common sense

    • Replies: @Canadian Friend
    Normal women do not have rape fantasies?

    It is the most common fantasy for women, this has been studied many times for decades.

    And the over 100 million women who loved reading 50 shades of Grey if they had any integrity would admit that is why they loved the book so much; because it is "border line" rape which is what they dream of.

    Of course they dream of rape from a good looking, tall, well endowed, rich man as Grey is in 50 shades but it is still fantasy of rape.
    , @Anonymous
    As far as women not having rape fantasies, look up the book "A Billion Wicked Thoughts" which examined the pornography habits of both men and women. What is the #1 fantasy consumed by women (not just in 50 Shades, but all women's porn/romance-novels)? A rape fantasy--to be taken and dominated by a man. No, this isn't the real world rape experience, it's a fantasy one. Where the woman is sexually attracted to the man and she is never physically injured. Nonetheless, it is a fantasy of her being in a position of weakness and being force against her will (at least her conscious will) to have sex with a man that overpowers her. Which is, by any definition, rape.

    The male hero pseudo-raping the heroine in romance novels is so common that "bodice ripping" became a cliche decades ago. A quick scan of almost any romance novel written in the last 50 years will find at least one scene that meets the above definition.

    According to the The Romance Writers of America, in 2002 40 million American women read romance novels. About 1 out of every 4 women.

    Unless you are prepared to say that 25% of American women are not "normal women," then you are going to have to come to grips with the fact that normal women DO have rape fantasies.
  18. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    Funny, the real social gender “contsruct” seems to be the LESBIAN.

    Their role is simply that: a role played by many women throughout their lives based upon sexual availability of men, innate childish curiousity and child-like role-playing (compare little and big girls playing “tea party” and “house”, with boys; little boys don’t play “army”, “cops and robbers” or “Cowboys and Indians”, they do it, with great gusto and physicality!)

    So many “lesbians” move into and out of that role or status, that one only knows when a woman will assume that particular identity or for how long or give it up for a straight identity. Hence, many college coeds in today’s limited hetero-sexual college environment, simply declare they are LUGs—“lesbians until graduation”, when they get back to the real world!

    Further, if lesbians were a naturally-occurring, non-socio gender grouping, why do so many use strap-ons to simulate male sexual acts? Wouldn’t they just be limited by their biological evolution, to what they actually know and can perform as women?

    Sex is behavior and behavior is learned. That’s why the LGBT agenda must be so strongly emphasized, defended and crammed down the throats of straight people.

    • Replies: @Anonymous

    ... is behavior and behavior is learned.
     
    Most people here believe many behaviors are 50:50 heritable. Even a substantial portion of the remaining 50% is thought to stem from non-learned causes in utero development, early childhood physical environment, parasites et cetera.

    Sure lesbianism is rare, and even rarer by your added constraints of exclusivity and life long persistence; rareness of a condition doesn't make it a social construct. e.g. Gluten free diet maybe a fad, but that does not mean Coeliac Disease, 1% prevalence, is a social construct.
  19. There are zero regular female writers at unz.com (unlike for example takimag or amconmag).

    I think the female POV would be interesting to read when discussing the female POV. 51% of humanity and all that.

    • Replies: @Bill P

    There are zero regular female writers at unz.com (unlike for example takimag or amconmag).

    I think the female POV would be interesting to read when discussing the female POV. 51% of humanity and all that.
     
    What makes you think we'd get the real female POV from a woman? I don't think women generally like to tell men what's really going on in there. Kind of ruins the game.
    , @grey enlightenment
    that is what Salon is for, I suppose
    , @Cagey Beast
    I don't think so. Ironically women never seem to have anything interesting to say about what they want when it comes to men. They want everything and its opposite and they want both without having to ask for it because that ruins the whole thing and makes them not want it anymore. Women are not very interesting on the topic of women.
    , @Priss Factor
    "There are zero regular female writers at unz.com (unlike for example takimag or amconmag)."

    Easily fixed. Have Sailer, Khan, Roberts, and etc don wigs on occasion and pretend to be women. Remember that in our age of transgenderism, any man can be woman(even for a day).

    Stevie Sailer
    Pauline Craig Roberts
    Patricia Buchanan
    Ronnie Unz
    Fran Reed
    etc

    Get the wigs. And maybe a bit of lipstick.
    , @David R. Merridale
    There are zero regular female writers at unz.com (unlike for example takimag or amconmag).

    I think the female POV would be interesting to read when discussing the female POV. 51% of humanity and all that.

    Rumor has it that Steve is in the initial stages of transitioning, so that one's covered. Thanks for pointing out this important issue.

    , @Rifleman

    I think the female POV would be interesting to read when discussing the female POV. 51% of humanity and all that.
     
    http://www.unz.com/comments/commenter/Dahlia/

    http://www.unz.com/comments/commenter/e/

    http://www.unz.com/comments/commenter/JSM/

    http://www.unz.com/comments/commenter/Californian/
    , @European-American
    > There are zero regular female writers at unz.com

    I nominate:

    Camille Paglia: The Modern Campus Cannot Comprehend Evil

    Caitlin Flanagan: What Girls Want

    Heather Mac Donald: Neo-Victorianism on Campus

    , @The most deplorable one
    The first signs of entryism (the camel's nose) at the Unz Report.
    , @a Newsreader
    There is no shortage of women saying what they want in the media, both left and right. Around here we also like to discuss women's revealed preferences. It's the question of what they do, which is especially interesting when it contradicts what they say.

    In fact, we apply this concept to other spheres of life as well.

    , @Marty
    We have Dahlia. All you need.
    , @shk12344
    Why stop just at woman?? Mandate inclusion of blacks, Asians, Gays, Transexuals, cross-dressers, disabled, hermaphrodite and so forth. There are also too many "conservative" types, Unz need more liberal voices.

    I believe Steve wrote an article about how all conservative institutions eventually become liberal ones. This is how that happens
    , @Formerly CARealist
    I appreciate the male writers and commenters here who take on the assessment of female dispositions. It's generally refreshingly honest. And, it's quite easy to distinguish the gentlemen from the jerks.

    Steve's a gentleman. (but don't get on a high horse, those beasts lofting everybody into smugness these days).
    , @Vendetta
    That is a point.

    I don't want to see anyone hired to fill a voice of diversity quota, but if Ron Unz does run across a woman with some interesting contra-PC things to say, it would make for a good addition to his crew.

    , @duderino
    While I agree that would be nice, can you think of a female
    Writer that is too controversial to be published in a mainstream outlet? Reminder, Amanda Marcotte has a paying job at Slate.

    Karen Decoster is the only good fit I can name.
    , @BurplesonAFB
    Suggest some.
    , @AshTon
    All male environments often descend into tedious point-scoring. The same with all-female environments - look at jezebel.com.
    , @Hibernian
    I think occasionally a few women post here. There is nothing to stop them as far as I know.
    , @PatrickH
    Ha. Alias Clio is available to write. But she is probably a bit too tame for the outlaw thinkers at Unz.
    , @iffen
    If it was taken seriously, the implications of your suggestion are such that the entire universe would fizzle.

    Unz seems to be smarter than the average bear so maybe he can come up with something.
    , @iffen
    See! You about burned out the reply tab!
    , @Hapalong Cassidy
    There are some prominent female authors on popular libertarian leaning blog sites similar to Unz, but probably wouldn't fit in as well here. One that comes to mind is Karen Kwiatkowsi. Quite a fascinating woman - retired Air Force colonel, some time political candidate, and full time antiwar activist. She also seems to have zero interest in writing about male-female stuff.
    , @Kylie
    @ anony-mouse

    "There are zero regular female writers at unz.com (unlike for example takimag or amconmag).

    I think the female POV would be interesting to read when discussing the female POV. 51% of humanity and all that."

    Think again.
  20. I read the first two volumes of this series, and only a small portion of the sexual incidents involve serious BDSM. Essentially, the protagonist Anastasia Steele just loves to get fucked a lot by her rich boyfriend Christian Grey.

    For her, his wealth is nice, but she can live without it. She falls in love with him as a person and wants to live happily with him.

    At first, he is addicted to BDSM sex and cannot enjoy a normal sexual relationship. She submits to please him, and she appreciates the pleasure she receives. However, the story is really about her guiding him out of his perverse addiction and into a normal sexual relationship. That situation resonates with many women in their own real relationships with their men.

    This movie and its several sequels will enjoy a huge commercial success. The professional reviewers pan the movie, because they do not understand its real message — occasional deviant play must be dominated by a normal sexual relationship.

    Dakota Johnson plays the leading role perfectly.

    • Replies: @Cagey Beast
    I read the first two volumes of this series ...

    You should not be allowed to vote or hold public office.
  21. “For me it is a pleasure of every instant to live in the house where Dominique Aury wrote Story of O, or in any case where lived the lover for whose love she wrote this book. Story of O is a fascinating book, don’t you think?”

    I agreed with him. In theory, Story of O had everything to displease me: the fantasies it presented disgusted me, and it was filled with ostentatious kitsch: the apartment on Île Saint-Louis, the villa in faubourg Saint-Germain, Sir Stephen — all this was utter shit. Nevertheless, the book was filled with a passion, a spirit that overwhelmed everything.

    “It is submission”, Rediger said softly. “The stunning and simple idea, never expressed before with such force, that the summit of human happiness lies in the most absolute submission. It’s an idea that I would hesitate to expose to my co-religionists, as they might consider it blasphemous, but for me there is a relationship between the absolute submission of women to men, as described by Story of O, and the submission of man to God, as envisaged by Islam. You see”, he continued, “Islam accepts the world, and accepts it in its entirety, it accepts the world as is, to speak like Nietzsche. The Buddhist point of view is that the world is dukkha — inadequation, suffering. Christianity itself expresses serious reservations — isn’t Satan called “the prince of this world”? To the contrary, for Islam, the divine creation is perfect, it is an absolute masterpiece. What is the Koran, ultimately, but a huge mystical poem of praise? Of praise to the Creator, and of submission to His laws.”

    Michel Houellebecq, Submission, p. 260

  22. @anony-mouse
    There are zero regular female writers at unz.com (unlike for example takimag or amconmag).

    I think the female POV would be interesting to read when discussing the female POV. 51% of humanity and all that.

    There are zero regular female writers at unz.com (unlike for example takimag or amconmag).

    I think the female POV would be interesting to read when discussing the female POV. 51% of humanity and all that.

    What makes you think we’d get the real female POV from a woman? I don’t think women generally like to tell men what’s really going on in there. Kind of ruins the game.

  23. @anony-mouse
    There are zero regular female writers at unz.com (unlike for example takimag or amconmag).

    I think the female POV would be interesting to read when discussing the female POV. 51% of humanity and all that.

    that is what Salon is for, I suppose

  24. @syonredux

    The feminist assumption of female solidarity appears to be more of a lesbian fantasy than a characteristic of the real world.
     
    Along these lines, it's interesting to note that the "Bechdel Test" was devised by a Lesbian:

    The Bechdel test asks if a work of fiction features at least two women who talk to each other about something other than a man.
     
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bechdel_test

    Of course, the bulk of literature written by heterosexual women from Jane Austen on down has largely consisted of women talking about Mr Darcy and who is going to land him.

    I have always found it humorous that the books women like the most fail the Bechdel test. False conciousness!

  25. If beavis and butthead were female, what would they say other than ‘boing’?

    • Replies: @jack o'fire

    If beavis and butthead were female, what would they say other than ‘boing’?
     
    Splash?
  26. I wonder if we can make any parallels between “50 Shades” and HRC’s Presidential campaign.

    • Replies: @SFG
    Equal and opposite reactions. HRC's campaign is the triumph of feminism. 50 Shades is the reaction to it. As feminism grows in power and neuters men's accepted behavior, women long for the alpha they can no longer have.

    What *is* interesting, to me, is the difference between black solidarity and female solidarity. Blacks support the party line in huge numbers--I think Bush Jr. had a 2% approval rate among blacks at one point--and usually support black movements. Women, on the other hand...from what I've seen, 1/2 to 1/3 of women are actively hostile to feminism. The sexes don't hate each other the way blacks and whites do.

    The way I'd put it was described in that piece of crimethink, 'A Billion Wicked Thoughts' (google it if you are curious, I read it in the Boston Public Library and it is interesting stuff). Very, very few women seek submissive partners, whereas something like a third of men seek dominant partners. So evil alpha males (and Christian's behavior--stalking, etc.-- is wrong in a conventional moral sense if you take him as a human being rather than as the author's sexual fantasy, which of course he is) always have a fanclub, so to speak.

    , @grey enlightenment
    probably not. HRC, like Merkel, Yellen and others, comes across as unfeminine, bordering on asexual.
    , @Busby
    To borrow from Frank Luntz

    She reminds men of their first wife, or mother in law.
  27. What’s “Alpha Male” about being born to inherit? In this context the “Alpha Male” thing seems to be male projection. It’s men who tend to prioritize genetic fitness uber alles.

  28. @anony-mouse
    There are zero regular female writers at unz.com (unlike for example takimag or amconmag).

    I think the female POV would be interesting to read when discussing the female POV. 51% of humanity and all that.

    I don’t think so. Ironically women never seem to have anything interesting to say about what they want when it comes to men. They want everything and its opposite and they want both without having to ask for it because that ruins the whole thing and makes them not want it anymore. Women are not very interesting on the topic of women.

    • Replies: @Tracy

    Ironically women never seem to have anything interesting to say about what they want when it comes to men. They want everything and its opposite and they want both without having to ask for it because that ruins the whole thing and makes them not want it anymore.
     
    I think it's kind of hilarious how men, in general, act all confused about what women want, and accuse us of being inconsistent and illogical and all that bad stuff. But just as men want a cook in the kitchen, a lady in the parlour, and a whore in the bedroom, women want a success at the office, a gentleman in the parlour, and a powerful man who knows what he's doing in the bedroom. There's no "inconsistency" from women in that regard any more than there is inconsistency from men. It's all really not that hard, guys.
    , @woman
    I want to be ravished by a man. I am a woman, and I like rough sex. I think many women are tired of feminized males. I don't read or need 50 shades of grey, but yes, I want a man to be masculine and tall and slim and hot.
  29. Priss Factor [AKA "K. Arujo"] says:

    “The feminist assumption of female solidarity appears to be more of a lesbian fantasy than a characteristic of the real world.”

    But the real world has few real prince charmings(or harmings).

    So, girls do end up gravitating together in disappointment.

    Of course, their official PC-approved gripe is about how men are over-privileged, but their real unsaid gripe is that there aren’t enough over-privileged men(who are also handsome) to go around for all the frustrated women out there.

  30. I am thinking that a strip-mall service establishment franchise called “Floggers” has some real potential. Just the place for the career women of Encorpera to unwind after a grueling day at the office.

  31. Priss Factor [AKA "K. Arujo"] says:

    With homos, it’s their cultural talent that goes a long way.

    There are all kinds of sexual deviancies but why do homos get special privilege?

    Why no incest pride parade?

    Why no S&M pride parade?

    Why no polygamy pride parade?

    Why no food sex pride parade?

    Why no wife-swapping pride parade?

    Why no cuckold pride parade?

    Why no masturbation pride parade?

    Why no granny fetish pride parade? (Aka Harold and Maude pride parade)

    Why no costume sex pride parade?

    It’s because people who indulge in such stuff have no special relation to any special talent?

    But homos do have great talent apart from sexual deviance. And that made all the difference. If most homos were poor trash living in trailers, I doubt if anyone would have cared.

    But many homos became writers, poets, artists, movie makers, fashionistas, agents, etc.

    • Replies: @e
    Guess you've never heard of the San Francisco S&M Folsom St. Fair? Every year it pulls in about 150K on a Sat or Sun. It started as a leather fair, but it's "progressed" beyond that, sad to say.

    I chose this link for you only because it has pics, but the goings on are even worse than what's pictured here, with plenty of people pushing around their toddlers in strollers.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/09/24/folsom-street-fair-2012_n_1908382.html

    , @Scotty G. Vito
    I was prepared to call your "point" inane/irrelevant but your poetic use of line breaks won me over.
  32. Priss Factor [AKA "K. Arujo"] says:
    @anony-mouse
    There are zero regular female writers at unz.com (unlike for example takimag or amconmag).

    I think the female POV would be interesting to read when discussing the female POV. 51% of humanity and all that.

    “There are zero regular female writers at unz.com (unlike for example takimag or amconmag).”

    Easily fixed. Have Sailer, Khan, Roberts, and etc don wigs on occasion and pretend to be women. Remember that in our age of transgenderism, any man can be woman(even for a day).

    Stevie Sailer
    Pauline Craig Roberts
    Patricia Buchanan
    Ronnie Unz
    Fran Reed
    etc

    Get the wigs. And maybe a bit of lipstick.

  33. If they are talking for marriage, yes many women are looking for a prince charming. But if they are looking for the ‘tingle’ they are looking for an alpha who will treat them with thugelicious dominance. You folks have no clue as to how many letters get written to prisoners from anonymous women and how many women submit to long distance dominance.

  34. @anony-mouse
    There are zero regular female writers at unz.com (unlike for example takimag or amconmag).

    I think the female POV would be interesting to read when discussing the female POV. 51% of humanity and all that.

    There are zero regular female writers at unz.com (unlike for example takimag or amconmag).

    I think the female POV would be interesting to read when discussing the female POV. 51% of humanity and all that.

    Rumor has it that Steve is in the initial stages of transitioning, so that one’s covered. Thanks for pointing out this important issue.

  35. Fine, but how does this explain something like 50 Shades, which isn’t exactly about princesses and tea parties, but features graphic depictions of things like analingus?

  36. @anony-mouse
    There are zero regular female writers at unz.com (unlike for example takimag or amconmag).

    I think the female POV would be interesting to read when discussing the female POV. 51% of humanity and all that.

    I think the female POV would be interesting to read when discussing the female POV. 51% of humanity and all that.

    http://www.unz.com/comments/commenter/Dahlia/

    http://www.unz.com/comments/commenter/e/

    http://www.unz.com/comments/commenter/JSM/

    http://www.unz.com/comments/commenter/Californian/

    • Replies: @Annek
    A commenter who posts here and goes by Legartha, or something like that, is a woman and always seems to have a pretty interesting point of view.
  37. @anony-mouse
    There are zero regular female writers at unz.com (unlike for example takimag or amconmag).

    I think the female POV would be interesting to read when discussing the female POV. 51% of humanity and all that.

    > There are zero regular female writers at unz.com

    I nominate:

    Camille Paglia: The Modern Campus Cannot Comprehend Evil

    Caitlin Flanagan: What Girls Want

    Heather Mac Donald: Neo-Victorianism on Campus

  38. After many decades, I have concluded that women want utopia and are continually frustrated that they can’t have it. Men are more content with their circumstances. To Wit the 70% of divorces initiated by women. Also it seems that most women stop even thinking about sex after 40.

    • Replies: @Tracy

    After many decades, I have concluded that women want utopia and are continually frustrated that they can’t have it. Men are more content with their circumstances. To Wit the 70% of divorces initiated by women. Also it seems that most women stop even thinking about sex after 40.
     
    The kind of life that most women want, deep down, is pretty much impossible. Women want a husband and kids, but they don't want to be stuck at home alone all day, with no adults to talk to, no one to socialize with. The old parish-centered neighborhoods have been destroyed, and women's social lives -- the set-up in which they could share chores with other women, babysit each other's kids and keep an eye out for them so they can play outside, get together and have coffee, get some time to breathe and pursue things of an intellectual or creative nature, etc. -- was destroyed with it (see this book about the destruction of the old neighborhoods).

    The nuclear family isn't the way it's supposed to be, but people moving all over the country for the sake of employment has destroyed the extended family. With those old neighborhoods and the extended family killed off, women are screwed. Of course a woman will be miserable stuck at home alone all day, with no time to breathe, with no adults to talk to for most of the day, and the only adult who does come around being the husband who gets home at 6 and just wants to chillax and watch TV. And who could blame him? He's been out, working all day. But who could blame her, either, for being miserable?

    Nothing will get fixed until extended family makes a comeback, and monocultural neighborhoods, which allowed women to trust their neighbors with their kids, and which gave them social lives, return. Without those in place, women can't be happy at home, raising kids (generally speaking).

    I think this is a really serious problem. Intelligence is mostly inherited from the mother, and a thinking man would want a wife with brains. But the women with brains are bored to DEATH dealing with kids ALL day, with no companionship and no time for a life of the mind, no time to get creative. So smart women don't have kids. And, so, we get what we got: an idiocracy.

  39. The most deplorable one [AKA "Fourth doorman of the apocalypse"] says:
    @anony-mouse
    There are zero regular female writers at unz.com (unlike for example takimag or amconmag).

    I think the female POV would be interesting to read when discussing the female POV. 51% of humanity and all that.

    The first signs of entryism (the camel’s nose) at the Unz Report.

  40. @anony-mouse
    There are zero regular female writers at unz.com (unlike for example takimag or amconmag).

    I think the female POV would be interesting to read when discussing the female POV. 51% of humanity and all that.

    There is no shortage of women saying what they want in the media, both left and right. Around here we also like to discuss women’s revealed preferences. It’s the question of what they do, which is especially interesting when it contradicts what they say.

    In fact, we apply this concept to other spheres of life as well.

  41. damned good point anomy-mouse. I didn’t realize that Unz review was such a sausage fest. I count 25 men and 0 women writing at Unz review.

  42. @anony-mouse
    There are zero regular female writers at unz.com (unlike for example takimag or amconmag).

    I think the female POV would be interesting to read when discussing the female POV. 51% of humanity and all that.

    We have Dahlia. All you need.

  43. Going by the book: an athletic young man with an enormous bank account, and a big one. Who spends all his time paying attention to her.

    Going by a good looking girl I know who went off to university in a very affluent city and socialised with rich kids from private schools: a black African barman who treats her badly.

    I’ll leave you to work out what the common factor is.

  44. I’m 30 and I have plenty of friends that I still keep in touch with from college, high school, even back to elementary school. We have get togethers whenever we can. All of my girlfriends and my friends’ wives/GFs have thought that it’s amazing that we still make a real effort to hang out. They just use Facebook and say “We should get together soon!” and it’s understood that none of them ever really mean it, unless it’s completely convenient for all. Heartiste is right: sperm is cheap, eggs are expensive, and a woman’s main purpose in her youth (if she’s smart and not an insane feminist) is to snag the most alpha guy possible and fend off other women.

    You don’t need a lot of friends for that.

  45. @anony-mouse
    There are zero regular female writers at unz.com (unlike for example takimag or amconmag).

    I think the female POV would be interesting to read when discussing the female POV. 51% of humanity and all that.

    Why stop just at woman?? Mandate inclusion of blacks, Asians, Gays, Transexuals, cross-dressers, disabled, hermaphrodite and so forth. There are also too many “conservative” types, Unz need more liberal voices.

    I believe Steve wrote an article about how all conservative institutions eventually become liberal ones. This is how that happens

    • Replies: @iffen

    more liberal voices
     
    Present and accounted for.
  46. @anony-mouse
    There are zero regular female writers at unz.com (unlike for example takimag or amconmag).

    I think the female POV would be interesting to read when discussing the female POV. 51% of humanity and all that.

    I appreciate the male writers and commenters here who take on the assessment of female dispositions. It’s generally refreshingly honest. And, it’s quite easy to distinguish the gentlemen from the jerks.

    Steve’s a gentleman. (but don’t get on a high horse, those beasts lofting everybody into smugness these days).

  47. They was a great Spy Magazine cover in the Nineties of Hilary in bondage outfit Houston a whip… You could see a bulge in her panties….

  48. @syonredux

    The feminist assumption of female solidarity appears to be more of a lesbian fantasy than a characteristic of the real world.
     
    Along these lines, it's interesting to note that the "Bechdel Test" was devised by a Lesbian:

    The Bechdel test asks if a work of fiction features at least two women who talk to each other about something other than a man.
     
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bechdel_test

    Of course, the bulk of literature written by heterosexual women from Jane Austen on down has largely consisted of women talking about Mr Darcy and who is going to land him.

    Perhaps a question should be asked: Do lesbians truly understand heterosexual women? Or are they so testosteroned up that their understanding tends to lean more toward a masculine perspective of understanding the world at large? (e.g. throughout the centuries of time, men have lamented that they “don’t understand women” etc.).

    In other words, among the least likely of people to understand (straight) women would tend to be lesbians? Lesbians may actually understand straight men much better than their own gender (those that are straight) at large.

  49. @countenance
    I wonder if we can make any parallels between "50 Shades" and HRC's Presidential campaign.

    Equal and opposite reactions. HRC’s campaign is the triumph of feminism. 50 Shades is the reaction to it. As feminism grows in power and neuters men’s accepted behavior, women long for the alpha they can no longer have.

    What *is* interesting, to me, is the difference between black solidarity and female solidarity. Blacks support the party line in huge numbers–I think Bush Jr. had a 2% approval rate among blacks at one point–and usually support black movements. Women, on the other hand…from what I’ve seen, 1/2 to 1/3 of women are actively hostile to feminism. The sexes don’t hate each other the way blacks and whites do.

    The way I’d put it was described in that piece of crimethink, ‘A Billion Wicked Thoughts’ (google it if you are curious, I read it in the Boston Public Library and it is interesting stuff). Very, very few women seek submissive partners, whereas something like a third of men seek dominant partners. So evil alpha males (and Christian’s behavior–stalking, etc.– is wrong in a conventional moral sense if you take him as a human being rather than as the author’s sexual fantasy, which of course he is) always have a fanclub, so to speak.

    • Replies: @Ed
    This is why I think HRC's candidacy will eventually implode. The first female president thing won't resonate much with the ladies as the first black president thing does with Blacks.

    Add to that she is older and won't inspire much hysteria among the young, who have little to no memory of the Clinton years. She'll just be some old lady their grandma likes.
  50. In my long years, I’ve known large numbers of women with drawers and e-readers full of “romance novels”.

    F. Roger Devlin has an answer. So do the Spice Girls.

  51. WAY OFF TOPIC:

    Steve, I recall a couple months ago you wrote a column about how 1950s Hawaiiana was a harbinger of the liberal-multicultural ideology of America’s Cold War alliance.

    When I watch TV, it’s usually the (sorta) educational channels–History, Discovery, Nat Geo, etc. It’s really striking how many Alaska-themed shows there have been over the past decade. Off the top of my head, there are shows about Alaskan fishermen, crabbers, miners, truckers, cops, off-gridders, railroaders, pilots, etc. Plus there was that miniseries with Sarah Palin.

    I was wondering if today’s Alaska ascendency in the culture is as significant as the Hawaii craze was. I’ve never been to Alaska, but that’s beside the point–as a cultural phenomenon it seems to represent something congenial to the dissident right–conservative in a blue-collar way with a localist, outdoorsy streak. Moreover, the “diversity” there consists mostly of romantic (in the cultural imagination, anyway) indigenes rather than imported helots and Ellis Island urbanites. And the white people there seem to represent what John Derbyshire calls “the old, weird America.”

    I just figured I would throw this out there in case you want to make something of it.

    • Replies: @donut
    You can have the Alaska experience in your hometown if you live in the north. Just wait for a blizzard in Jan. or Feb. then drive to the roof of a local parking garage and rotate your tires.
  52. It always struck me that girls have competing desires when I had sex with them the first time. During pillow talk, they’d confess they’d made up their mind to have sex with me long ago. But leading up to sex there would be this faux prudishness: slapping my hand , giggling while saying no, and pretending to be offended by my sexual overtures. It was a case where no meant “not yet, but keep trying.” I knew another who acted not interested and then completely dropped the facade when she saw me with somebody else . It’s like they wanted to feel that A). They weren’t easy. B). I’m not easy, and I had options C) sex just happened, there was no burden of making a logical decision to have sex on her part. So I guess the fantasy is have it both ways, not having to consent to a guy she obviously would have consented to. It’s not a rape fantasy, it’s a passionate consensual sex without explicit consent fantasy.

    • Replies: @Lagertha
    spend your time with women who are more secure. Sex is sex...if they talk too much about the past then just zip up and get TF out of the room, seriously...don't waste time with neophytes; history (today) is not a good thing for you regular guys in your 20's.

    So, not knowing your age: surround yourself with happy girls (ones who grew up happy and seem balanced even if they are nerdy) and, well, the ones who compete with their friends or hate their parents, well, run! run fast! Take a break and travel by train abroad and really, just have time to do stupid sh** until you are 30....that's what I tell my sons.

  53. @anony-mouse
    There are zero regular female writers at unz.com (unlike for example takimag or amconmag).

    I think the female POV would be interesting to read when discussing the female POV. 51% of humanity and all that.

    That is a point.

    I don’t want to see anyone hired to fill a voice of diversity quota, but if Ron Unz does run across a woman with some interesting contra-PC things to say, it would make for a good addition to his crew.

  54. anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    “The feminist assumption of female solidarity …”

    My theory (no particular evidence) is that, in addition to the “feminists” who actively pushed it, feminism was just another branch of anti-Western Cold War propaganda probably well funded by the KGB types, along the lines of the so-called active measures:

    “…Active measures included the establishment and support of international front organizations (e.g. the World Peace Council); foreign communist, socialist and opposition parties…

    …subversion: active measures to weaken the West, to drive wedges in the Western community alliances of all sorts, particularly NATO, to sow discord among allies, to weaken the United States in the eyes of the people of Europe, Asia, Africa, Latin America, and thus to prepare ground in case the war really occurs. …

    …The head of the “active measures department” was Yuri Modin, former controller of the Cambridge Five spy ring…”

    I guess there’s a word for this today astroturfing.

    You probably can’t understand feminism without understanding the Cold War and the 60s.

  55. Just posted long cmt. Will simply write something more terse.
    Just wanted to draw attention to recent work on the evolution of ‘differentiated sexes’ (different from ‘sexual reproduction’).
    Original work is by Atmar(1991): http://www.researchgate.net/publication/223625695_On_the_role_of_males
    Recent research seems to validate it.

    It appears to be the best contender for a theory to explain sex differences (from first principles).
    Would love to hear Steve’s, or anyone else’s thoughts on it.

  56. @syonredux
    Gay Men vs Lesbians:

    People have noticed for a while now that these two groups don't have much in common:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s_ZHP55gdjs

    But one of the things that most clearly distinguishes the two groups involves their relationship with heterosexuals of the opposite sex.Gay men are quite attracted to Straight men (glance through Gay male personals."Str8t acting" is probably the single most desired trait in a paramour), but they know that Straight guys are just not interested.Men are just too consistent in their sexual orientation.Therefore, tension between Gay men and Straight women is quite low.

    For Lesbians, though, it is quite different.Female sexuality is less fixed, more open to ideology and contingency.Hence, Lesbians can fantasize about how they can get Straight women.It's just a matter of separating them from Straight men (cf Lesbian Separatist SF novels like Joanna Russ' The Female Man, etc).This being the case, Lesbians strongly resent Straight men.They are two predators seeking the same prey.

    “They are two predators seeking the same prey.”

    Which is one reason why the feminists who run “women’s refuges” in the UK are very keen on keeping all men away – fathers and brothers of victims included. Lots of vulnerable women under one roof – what could possibly go wrong ?

    (Btw, the prince will always be handsome and powerful, but not always charming – often haughty and/or arrogant to our heroine. Remember – chicks dig jerks ?)

  57. @anony-mouse
    There are zero regular female writers at unz.com (unlike for example takimag or amconmag).

    I think the female POV would be interesting to read when discussing the female POV. 51% of humanity and all that.

    While I agree that would be nice, can you think of a female
    Writer that is too controversial to be published in a mainstream outlet? Reminder, Amanda Marcotte has a paying job at Slate.

    Karen Decoster is the only good fit I can name.

  58. According to bechdeltest.com, both Pride and Prejudice & Sense and Sensibility pass all three tests. I’m not sure if that’s what the Women In Film site uses, but there are apparently graphs you can generate.

    Fan fiction has a heavily female, if unrepresentative, demographic. Someone has seen fit to do some statistical analysis of which traits are popular with writers vs readers etc. Bottom-line: there are a lot of women into fucked up shit, although I suppose someone would say the same of men if they did an analysis of internet pornography.

    • Replies: @syonredux

    According to bechdeltest.com, both Pride and Prejudice & Sense and Sensibility pass all three tests. I’m not sure if that’s what the Women In Film site uses, but there are apparently graphs you can generate.
     
    Interestingly enough, there's been a rather concerted movement to find/create "Queer" perspectives on Jane Austen (cf the work of Eve Kosofsky Sedgwick*, etc) .One suspects that it has a lot do do with Lesbian academics finding Jane tough sledding (all that heteronormitivity, etc).

    *Mind you, Eve Kosofsky Sedgwick has also argued that the work of Henry James is all about fisting....
    , @notsaying
    Men are into almost an infinite number of fetishes.
    I'm familiar with fetish sites and men are into absolutely anything you can imagine, no matter how weird, how vile, how innocuous sounding (like the guys who get off on popping balloons), how painful, you name it, there are guys into it and they have a forum where they discuss it. The breadth of male dominated fetishes is astonishing and you just can't imagine them all.

    For women it's quite different.
    In most fetish forums, you have 100 guys trying to grab the attention of the 5 women who are part of the group. Among the 5 women, 2 are professionals, 1 is there because her man is into the weird fetish and the last 2 are into the fetish.

    For what fetishes do you find ratios more like 100 guys for 30 women ? In any fetish forum that's about "daddies" punishing their bad girls, rape fantasies, fantasies about strong guys humiliating and treating the woman like dirt and fantasies about women being "forced" to do horrible things to please "daddy", etc. You'll also find a disturbing number of women who participate in death fantasy forums where they fantasize about some predator guy killing them then eating them, etc. Those are the kind of fetishes that women really get into and in a sick way. You won't find women in the groups about having sex with car engines (you will find guys into that though, for sure).
    , @NOTA
    The main characters in both Pride and Prejudice and Sense and Sensibility are womem, who spends a lot of time talking with their sisters, mothers, and friends. Easy pass.
  59. @countenance
    I wonder if we can make any parallels between "50 Shades" and HRC's Presidential campaign.

    probably not. HRC, like Merkel, Yellen and others, comes across as unfeminine, bordering on asexual.

  60. @anony-mouse
    There are zero regular female writers at unz.com (unlike for example takimag or amconmag).

    I think the female POV would be interesting to read when discussing the female POV. 51% of humanity and all that.

    Suggest some.

  61. @countenance
    I wonder if we can make any parallels between "50 Shades" and HRC's Presidential campaign.

    To borrow from Frank Luntz

    She reminds men of their first wife, or mother in law.

  62. Well if 50 Shades of Grey is anything to go by, it’s rimjobs. They want rimjobs.

    • Replies: @Glaivester
    Giving them or getting them?

    Oh, and by the way - EWWWWWWWWW.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZeSXvATLmSU
  63. Regarding female solidarity, how many times have iSteve fans heard these lines from women, particularly easier to get along with women:

    1. Most of my friends have always been guys. I just can’t deal with the drama of most women.

    2. I prefer to work with men than women. They’re easier and just get the job done.

    3. I usually hate working for a woman boss.

    I’d suspect quite a bit. I know that I’ve heard those lines repeatedly since getting into the work world. It surprised me at first. I’d never heard anything like that from a guy. No straight guy says that most of his friends over the years have been women, and they sure as hell don’t prefer to work with or under a woman – although many of us have had a good female boss or co-worker at some point.

    Again, I’d also emphasize that I hear these comments much more often from women that I respect and enjoy being around. I don’t seem to hear those lines from more flighty women.

    • Replies: @Ex Submarine Officer

    1. Most of my friends have always been guys. I just can’t deal with the drama of most women.

    2. I prefer to work with men than women. They’re easier and just get the job done.

    3. I usually hate working for a woman boss.
     
    Its been said that one thing men and women have in common is they both enjoy the company of men.

    I'd add to that that both men and women enjoy looking at women.
    , @dumpstersquirrel
    "No straight guy says that most of his friends over the years have been women, and they sure as hell don’t prefer to work with or under a woman."

    I'm a man with normal sexuality and most of my friends over the years have been women, and I sure as hell don't prefer to work with or under a woman. I'm Gen-X, and most men of my generation are obsessed with vidjagames and sports, so it's almost impossible for me to connect with men because I have zero interest in the former and only passing interest in the latter. In fact, the only man friends I've had in the past decade have been much older than me, because they aren't obsessed with vidjagames and worshiping at the church of africanus footballus all weekend long.
  64. @syonredux
    Gay Men vs Lesbians:

    People have noticed for a while now that these two groups don't have much in common:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s_ZHP55gdjs

    But one of the things that most clearly distinguishes the two groups involves their relationship with heterosexuals of the opposite sex.Gay men are quite attracted to Straight men (glance through Gay male personals."Str8t acting" is probably the single most desired trait in a paramour), but they know that Straight guys are just not interested.Men are just too consistent in their sexual orientation.Therefore, tension between Gay men and Straight women is quite low.

    For Lesbians, though, it is quite different.Female sexuality is less fixed, more open to ideology and contingency.Hence, Lesbians can fantasize about how they can get Straight women.It's just a matter of separating them from Straight men (cf Lesbian Separatist SF novels like Joanna Russ' The Female Man, etc).This being the case, Lesbians strongly resent Straight men.They are two predators seeking the same prey.

    Yes, this means there is a certain sort of lesbian who has anti-male solidarity. But without men in the picture they will compete cattily with each other. This is the kind of lesbian who writes academic books about the evils of men. These lesbians are basically female-brained, like Andrea Dworkin.

    The other, more male-brained sort of lesbian gets along ok with men, they think much alike, but in the absence of men will form a bruderbond with her fellow lesbians, just as men do with their comrades. This is the sort of lesbian who plays womens’ sports.

    • Replies: @The most deplorable one

    The other, more male-brained sort of lesbian gets along ok with men, they think much alike, but in the absence of men will form a bruderbond with her fellow lesbians, just as men do with their comrades. This is the sort of lesbian who plays womens’ sports.
     
    It would be tempting to call these lesbians CAH lesbians.

    Do they have a tendency to take things personally?

    Are they able to easily mentally rotate structures like the crankshaft in an engine?
    , @donut
    I lived in Park Slope in the 90's for awhile . When I first started to hang out there I thought I'd stumbled into lesbian central for the east coast. You could feel the hostility radiating from some of them in any interaction . Later after I moved here I met a " more male-brained sort of lesbian" , it was like hanging out with a guy .

    On a different subject found this in the WaPo : http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/raising-children-on-fear/2015/02/13/9d9db67e-b2e7-11e4-827f-93f454140e2b_story.html

    Yeah CPS looking out for your kids : http://thefreethoughtproject.com/baby-parents-father-admitted-using-marijuana-murdered-foster-care/#fFsQLZx0FylxUWPI.99
  65. • Replies: @Dennis Dale
    "Women have always been the primary victims of war. Women lose their husbands, their fathers, their sons to combat."
    --Hillary Clinton

    Ready for Hillary?
  66. IMO, a more important question would be, “Why in the world is such a crappy book getting so much attention?”

    • Replies: @Cagey Beast
    “Why in the world is such a crappy book getting so much attention?”

    Because we live in crappy times? Even Houllebecq joked that his new book and "Fifty Shades of Grey" are both bestsellers because they're both about submission.
  67. This is correct. Women want to be Cinderella. They want to be Julia Roberts in Pretty Woman, a movie they universally love.

    I was accused by someone here, who has read more than lived, of “pedestalling” women. Well, as the joke goes, I put women on pedestals so I can look up their skirts.

    I eventually found one woman I admired enough, and I got up there on the pedestal and married her. That’s what those little bride and groom figures on top of wedding cakes represent.

    You will note that in Pretty Woman, Richard Gere is afraid of heights. That’s no accident by the screenwriters. When he overcomes that, he climbs up there and becomes a real king. Until then he is a boy prince with money.

    You don’t drag women down to where you are. That’s not being the man, or the dominant, or the leader, or whatever archetype you think it is. You throw them over your shoulder and carry them up to a higher place. Sometimes you have to spank a little bit. They don’t mind.

  68. feminist assumption of female solidarity – Polygamist wives are actually very solid, and probably have total control over their husband given their numbers. Actually early Mormans were collectivist or even socialist, which got them into constant trouble with the capitalist USA. Even today the FLDS fiasco degenerated into the government seizing communal property.

  69. “What do little girls (in waiting) want? It appears to be much the same, given the success of the Princess movies and the paraphernalia in the Princess Industry.”

    there’s something to what SomethingToSay has to say. exxxceeept for the WILD success of Frozen which totally upended the princess fairy tale. (i think a lot of little girls just want to wear pretty princess dresses.)

    • Replies: @TWS
    I think part of the problem is that women spend all their formative years in the west being explicitly and implicitly catered to. Then as they hit their teens they discover that does not float their boat. They are designed by nature since we were chimps kissing cousins to be dominated by the men around them.

    The first time they read something like '50 Shades' or they run across the thug guy from autoshop or they read about that nice 'Joker' Tsarneav and their little gina starts tingling. They're told that men are weaker, more foolish etc and suddenly they are faced with a decisive, bold and dominant man. Read the unsolicited letters women write men in prison. Watch the interaction at any bar. Women no longer have the skills necessary to deal with the true alpha because they are told they do not exist.
  70. @TGGP
    According to bechdeltest.com, both Pride and Prejudice & Sense and Sensibility pass all three tests. I'm not sure if that's what the Women In Film site uses, but there are apparently graphs you can generate.

    Fan fiction has a heavily female, if unrepresentative, demographic. Someone has seen fit to do some statistical analysis of which traits are popular with writers vs readers etc. Bottom-line: there are a lot of women into fucked up shit, although I suppose someone would say the same of men if they did an analysis of internet pornography.

    According to bechdeltest.com, both Pride and Prejudice & Sense and Sensibility pass all three tests. I’m not sure if that’s what the Women In Film site uses, but there are apparently graphs you can generate.

    Interestingly enough, there’s been a rather concerted movement to find/create “Queer” perspectives on Jane Austen (cf the work of Eve Kosofsky Sedgwick*, etc) .One suspects that it has a lot do do with Lesbian academics finding Jane tough sledding (all that heteronormitivity, etc).

    *Mind you, Eve Kosofsky Sedgwick has also argued that the work of Henry James is all about fisting….

  71. What do women want?

    At what age and in what sort of domestic circumstances? You arent’s 22 forever (though there’s a class of women who think they can stretch it out for 10 or 15 years).

    • Replies: @Anonymous

    there’s a class of women who think they can stretch it out
     
    Heh, I see what you did there.
  72. @syonredux

    The feminist assumption of female solidarity appears to be more of a lesbian fantasy than a characteristic of the real world.
     
    Along these lines, it's interesting to note that the "Bechdel Test" was devised by a Lesbian:

    The Bechdel test asks if a work of fiction features at least two women who talk to each other about something other than a man.
     
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bechdel_test

    Of course, the bulk of literature written by heterosexual women from Jane Austen on down has largely consisted of women talking about Mr Darcy and who is going to land him.

    Bechdel test asks if a work of fiction features at least two women who talk to each other about something other than a man.

    Named for a woman for whom trashing her father 25 years after the fact was a career move (much to the consternation of her immediate family).

  73. @anony-mouse
    There are zero regular female writers at unz.com (unlike for example takimag or amconmag).

    I think the female POV would be interesting to read when discussing the female POV. 51% of humanity and all that.

    All male environments often descend into tedious point-scoring. The same with all-female environments – look at jezebel.com.

  74. Do women themselves really know what they want?
    Besides, doesn’t what people want, male and female, keep changing throughout their lives?

  75. @anony-mouse
    There are zero regular female writers at unz.com (unlike for example takimag or amconmag).

    I think the female POV would be interesting to read when discussing the female POV. 51% of humanity and all that.

    I think occasionally a few women post here. There is nothing to stop them as far as I know.

  76. Mr SomethingToSay is mistaken. 50 Shades of Grey is not a Cinderella story, as far as I can determine (not having read it). It’s a Beauty and the Beast story. If you’re going to use archetypes to carry out cultural criticism, you need to label the archetype correctly.

    I don’t know if female competition has much of a part in 50 Shades, but it sounds as if the book’s primary emotional impact comes from the transformation of a rich, unfeeling Strong Man into an emotionally available one, thanks to the loving submission of a good woman. It’s her submissiveness that is attracting feminist criticism. The heroine of the story is supposed to be a virgin when she meets the “hero”. I can’t recall the last time I came across one of those in a book not written for children.

    Cinderella doesn’t fit your template either. It’s the story of a girl who is unjustly treated by her father’s new wife and step-daughters, and who is rescued from a life of poverty by her prince. She doesn’t remove any of the competition; they try to remove her, and almost succeed. It’s only thanks to the intervention of her fairy godmother that she’s able to go to the ball and meet the prince at all.

    • Replies: @syonredux

    Mr SomethingToSay is mistaken. 50 Shades of Grey is not a Cinderella story, as far as I can determine (not having read it). It’s a Beauty and the Beast story. If you’re going to use archetypes to carry out cultural criticism, you need to label the archetype correctly.
     
    Excellent point
  77. The most deplorable one [AKA "Fourth doorman of the apocalypse"] says:
    @Simon in London
    Yes, this means there is a certain sort of lesbian who has anti-male solidarity. But without men in the picture they will compete cattily with each other. This is the kind of lesbian who writes academic books about the evils of men. These lesbians are basically female-brained, like Andrea Dworkin.

    The other, more male-brained sort of lesbian gets along ok with men, they think much alike, but in the absence of men will form a bruderbond with her fellow lesbians, just as men do with their comrades. This is the sort of lesbian who plays womens' sports.

    The other, more male-brained sort of lesbian gets along ok with men, they think much alike, but in the absence of men will form a bruderbond with her fellow lesbians, just as men do with their comrades. This is the sort of lesbian who plays womens’ sports.

    It would be tempting to call these lesbians CAH lesbians.

    Do they have a tendency to take things personally?

    Are they able to easily mentally rotate structures like the crankshaft in an engine?

  78. OT/WWT:

    Google Image results for Anna Grodska, the Polish Green Party’s candidate for the presidency of Poland.

    Yes, it used to be a man. And it’s currently a member of the Polish parliament.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    That looks like a more masculine Bruce Villanch.
    , @JSM
    OUCH! Give a person a warning hint next time you post a link like that, please? It nearly put my eye out.
  79. @TGGP
    According to bechdeltest.com, both Pride and Prejudice & Sense and Sensibility pass all three tests. I'm not sure if that's what the Women In Film site uses, but there are apparently graphs you can generate.

    Fan fiction has a heavily female, if unrepresentative, demographic. Someone has seen fit to do some statistical analysis of which traits are popular with writers vs readers etc. Bottom-line: there are a lot of women into fucked up shit, although I suppose someone would say the same of men if they did an analysis of internet pornography.

    Men are into almost an infinite number of fetishes.
    I’m familiar with fetish sites and men are into absolutely anything you can imagine, no matter how weird, how vile, how innocuous sounding (like the guys who get off on popping balloons), how painful, you name it, there are guys into it and they have a forum where they discuss it. The breadth of male dominated fetishes is astonishing and you just can’t imagine them all.

    For women it’s quite different.
    In most fetish forums, you have 100 guys trying to grab the attention of the 5 women who are part of the group. Among the 5 women, 2 are professionals, 1 is there because her man is into the weird fetish and the last 2 are into the fetish.

    For what fetishes do you find ratios more like 100 guys for 30 women ? In any fetish forum that’s about “daddies” punishing their bad girls, rape fantasies, fantasies about strong guys humiliating and treating the woman like dirt and fantasies about women being “forced” to do horrible things to please “daddy”, etc. You’ll also find a disturbing number of women who participate in death fantasy forums where they fantasize about some predator guy killing them then eating them, etc. Those are the kind of fetishes that women really get into and in a sick way. You won’t find women in the groups about having sex with car engines (you will find guys into that though, for sure).

    • Replies: @Brutusale
    A friend once emailed me a link to a site catering to guys who get off on pictures of women wearing puffy winter coats. The range of fetishes approaches infinity.
  80. @anony-mouse
    There are zero regular female writers at unz.com (unlike for example takimag or amconmag).

    I think the female POV would be interesting to read when discussing the female POV. 51% of humanity and all that.

    Ha. Alias Clio is available to write. But she is probably a bit too tame for the outlaw thinkers at Unz.

  81. @Simon in London
    Yes, this means there is a certain sort of lesbian who has anti-male solidarity. But without men in the picture they will compete cattily with each other. This is the kind of lesbian who writes academic books about the evils of men. These lesbians are basically female-brained, like Andrea Dworkin.

    The other, more male-brained sort of lesbian gets along ok with men, they think much alike, but in the absence of men will form a bruderbond with her fellow lesbians, just as men do with their comrades. This is the sort of lesbian who plays womens' sports.

    I lived in Park Slope in the 90’s for awhile . When I first started to hang out there I thought I’d stumbled into lesbian central for the east coast. You could feel the hostility radiating from some of them in any interaction . Later after I moved here I met a ” more male-brained sort of lesbian” , it was like hanging out with a guy .

    On a different subject found this in the WaPo : http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/raising-children-on-fear/2015/02/13/9d9db67e-b2e7-11e4-827f-93f454140e2b_story.html

    Yeah CPS looking out for your kids : http://thefreethoughtproject.com/baby-parents-father-admitted-using-marijuana-murdered-foster-care/#fFsQLZx0FylxUWPI.99

  82. @anony-mouse
    There are zero regular female writers at unz.com (unlike for example takimag or amconmag).

    I think the female POV would be interesting to read when discussing the female POV. 51% of humanity and all that.

    If it was taken seriously, the implications of your suggestion are such that the entire universe would fizzle.

    Unz seems to be smarter than the average bear so maybe he can come up with something.

  83. @Art Deco
    What do women want?

    At what age and in what sort of domestic circumstances? You arent's 22 forever (though there's a class of women who think they can stretch it out for 10 or 15 years).

    there’s a class of women who think they can stretch it out

    Heh, I see what you did there.

  84. @anon
    OT/WWT:

    Google Image results for Anna Grodska, the Polish Green Party's candidate for the presidency of Poland.

    Yes, it used to be a man. And it's currently a member of the Polish parliament.

    That looks like a more masculine Bruce Villanch.

  85. @abj_slant
    IMO, a more important question would be, "Why in the world is such a crappy book getting so much attention?"

    “Why in the world is such a crappy book getting so much attention?”

    Because we live in crappy times? Even Houllebecq joked that his new book and “Fifty Shades of Grey” are both bestsellers because they’re both about submission.

  86. Sex in its natural outcome involves a fair degree of degradation, pain and suffering for a woman: childbirth. Perhaps the rise of S & M parallels the expansion of birth control & abortion and the resulting modern form of hygienically sterilized sex without any distressing consequence?

    • Replies: @Priss Factor
    "Sex in its natural outcome involves a fair degree of degradation, pain and suffering for a woman: childbirth. Perhaps the rise of S & M parallels the expansion of birth control & abortion and the resulting modern form of hygienically sterilized sex without any distressing consequence?"

    Interesting.

    50 seems more a class fantasy than a sexual one as Douther mentioned.
    Would all these women have cared about it if it were about a woman treated this way by some poor guy in a run-down trailer?
    The appeal is in his riches and privilege and power. More Fifty Shades of Green.
    It's like hazing ritual for a woman to be allowed into the world of the super-rich. No pain, no gain.

    Power is the ultimate aphrodisiac.
    Thighs Wide Shut.

  87. There’s anal fisting in 50 Shades (look it up if you don’t believe me). It’s been a while since I’ve read the Cinderella story, but if memory serves, there’s no anal fisting in Cinderella.

    • Replies: @Ray P

    there’s no anal fisting in Cinderella.
     
    There is in Anne "Vampire Lestat" Rice's three volume Sleeping Beauty series however (I've just discovered she has a fourth one coming this year!) She also wrote Exit to Eden, the basis of the awful Hollywood movie.

    One strange old lady.
  88. @PatrickH
    Mr SomethingToSay is mistaken. 50 Shades of Grey is not a Cinderella story, as far as I can determine (not having read it). It's a Beauty and the Beast story. If you're going to use archetypes to carry out cultural criticism, you need to label the archetype correctly.

    I don't know if female competition has much of a part in 50 Shades, but it sounds as if the book's primary emotional impact comes from the transformation of a rich, unfeeling Strong Man into an emotionally available one, thanks to the loving submission of a good woman. It's her submissiveness that is attracting feminist criticism. The heroine of the story is supposed to be a virgin when she meets the "hero". I can't recall the last time I came across one of those in a book not written for children.

    Cinderella doesn't fit your template either. It's the story of a girl who is unjustly treated by her father's new wife and step-daughters, and who is rescued from a life of poverty by her prince. She doesn't remove any of the competition; they try to remove her, and almost succeed. It's only thanks to the intervention of her fairy godmother that she's able to go to the ball and meet the prince at all.

    Mr SomethingToSay is mistaken. 50 Shades of Grey is not a Cinderella story, as far as I can determine (not having read it). It’s a Beauty and the Beast story. If you’re going to use archetypes to carry out cultural criticism, you need to label the archetype correctly.

    Excellent point

  89. Why didn’t they like “Secretary” ? I thought it was pretty good . A good date movie .

    http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0274812/

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    We did like "Secretary".
  90. @Anonymous
    There's anal fisting in 50 Shades (look it up if you don't believe me). It's been a while since I've read the Cinderella story, but if memory serves, there's no anal fisting in Cinderella.

    there’s no anal fisting in Cinderella.

    There is in Anne “Vampire Lestat” Rice’s three volume Sleeping Beauty series however (I’ve just discovered she has a fourth one coming this year!) She also wrote Exit to Eden, the basis of the awful Hollywood movie.

    One strange old lady.

  91. @Mike Sylwester
    I read the first two volumes of this series, and only a small portion of the sexual incidents involve serious BDSM. Essentially, the protagonist Anastasia Steele just loves to get fucked a lot by her rich boyfriend Christian Grey.

    For her, his wealth is nice, but she can live without it. She falls in love with him as a person and wants to live happily with him.

    At first, he is addicted to BDSM sex and cannot enjoy a normal sexual relationship. She submits to please him, and she appreciates the pleasure she receives. However, the story is really about her guiding him out of his perverse addiction and into a normal sexual relationship. That situation resonates with many women in their own real relationships with their men.

    This movie and its several sequels will enjoy a huge commercial success. The professional reviewers pan the movie, because they do not understand its real message -- occasional deviant play must be dominated by a normal sexual relationship.

    Dakota Johnson plays the leading role perfectly.

    I read the first two volumes of this series …

    You should not be allowed to vote or hold public office.

    • Replies: @SFG
    The first book of the series is the only book I have ever carried that got me a phone number. And *she* started talking to me.

    As for teh kink: men are more deviant. (I've done very, very mild BDSM--any more than that is risking legal trouble.) In every way from serial killing to Nobel prizes.

    An interesting example of a non-misandristic lesbian seems to be Camille Paglia.
  92. Priss Factor [AKA "K. Arujo"] says:
    @Ray P
    Sex in its natural outcome involves a fair degree of degradation, pain and suffering for a woman: childbirth. Perhaps the rise of S & M parallels the expansion of birth control & abortion and the resulting modern form of hygienically sterilized sex without any distressing consequence?

    “Sex in its natural outcome involves a fair degree of degradation, pain and suffering for a woman: childbirth. Perhaps the rise of S & M parallels the expansion of birth control & abortion and the resulting modern form of hygienically sterilized sex without any distressing consequence?”

    Interesting.

    50 seems more a class fantasy than a sexual one as Douther mentioned.
    Would all these women have cared about it if it were about a woman treated this way by some poor guy in a run-down trailer?
    The appeal is in his riches and privilege and power. More Fifty Shades of Green.
    It’s like hazing ritual for a woman to be allowed into the world of the super-rich. No pain, no gain.

    Power is the ultimate aphrodisiac.
    Thighs Wide Shut.

  93. @Bill P
    Female sexual arousal is switched on by attention from men (and sometimes just attention in general, hence lesbians' occasional success with normal women). The higher status the man, the stronger the effect. The man's arousal also arouses her.

    Men have objective sexuality -- they see something they like and they want it, and are notoriously obtuse when it comes to the feelings of the object of their desire. Women have far more subjective sexuality in that when something they like notices them it turns them on. This is why professional photographers have such great success with women.

    The reason 50 shades is so popular is that all the bondage is taking sexual attention to an extreme. It's like Cinderella on crack.

    It's really pretty simple, but it's surprising how few people actually know this and think there's little difference between the sexes in this matter.

    BTW, I'd also argue that this explains feminists' endless rants about male "objectification" -- they highly resent the way human sexuality works in much the same manner that many men are frustrated by women's insistence that men pay attention to their feelings.

    > when something they like notices them it turns them on.

    There’s a book by a woman that makes that point – ‘Open Her’ by Karen Brody. Sort of a ‘The Way of the Superior Man’ by a woman, for men.

  94. @shk12344
    Why stop just at woman?? Mandate inclusion of blacks, Asians, Gays, Transexuals, cross-dressers, disabled, hermaphrodite and so forth. There are also too many "conservative" types, Unz need more liberal voices.

    I believe Steve wrote an article about how all conservative institutions eventually become liberal ones. This is how that happens

    more liberal voices

    Present and accounted for.

  95. Priss Factor [AKA "K. Arujo"] says:

    Maybe 50 SHADES will start a whole new trend where fanfic authors porn-ize some popular story.

    50 shades of Hunger Games.

    50 shades of Batman. I mean he has all those neat gadgets.

    50 shades of Iron Man. Now, that’s some serious fisting action.

    50 shades of 300. Actually not necessary as the movie itself was a kind of homoerotic porn epic.

    50 shades of Obama the Half-blood Prince. We’ll let Sailer put on the gloves for this one.

    50 shades of Life of Pi. Imagine what Richard Parker could have done with the dotter.

  96. @Svigor
    OT:

    http://www.theguardian.com/society/2015/feb/14/dementia-hits-women-hardest-study

    Study shows men die young; women hardest hit.

    “Women have always been the primary victims of war. Women lose their husbands, their fathers, their sons to combat.”
    –Hillary Clinton

    Ready for Hillary?

  97. @anony-mouse
    There are zero regular female writers at unz.com (unlike for example takimag or amconmag).

    I think the female POV would be interesting to read when discussing the female POV. 51% of humanity and all that.

    See! You about burned out the reply tab!

  98. @Anonymous
    Well if 50 Shades of Grey is anything to go by, it's rimjobs. They want rimjobs.

    Giving them or getting them?

    Oh, and by the way – EWWWWWWWWW.

  99. @ABN
    WAY OFF TOPIC:

    Steve, I recall a couple months ago you wrote a column about how 1950s Hawaiiana was a harbinger of the liberal-multicultural ideology of America's Cold War alliance.

    When I watch TV, it's usually the (sorta) educational channels--History, Discovery, Nat Geo, etc. It's really striking how many Alaska-themed shows there have been over the past decade. Off the top of my head, there are shows about Alaskan fishermen, crabbers, miners, truckers, cops, off-gridders, railroaders, pilots, etc. Plus there was that miniseries with Sarah Palin.

    I was wondering if today's Alaska ascendency in the culture is as significant as the Hawaii craze was. I've never been to Alaska, but that's beside the point--as a cultural phenomenon it seems to represent something congenial to the dissident right--conservative in a blue-collar way with a localist, outdoorsy streak. Moreover, the "diversity" there consists mostly of romantic (in the cultural imagination, anyway) indigenes rather than imported helots and Ellis Island urbanites. And the white people there seem to represent what John Derbyshire calls "the old, weird America."

    I just figured I would throw this out there in case you want to make something of it.

    You can have the Alaska experience in your hometown if you live in the north. Just wait for a blizzard in Jan. or Feb. then drive to the roof of a local parking garage and rotate your tires.

  100. @Cagey Beast
    I read the first two volumes of this series ...

    You should not be allowed to vote or hold public office.

    The first book of the series is the only book I have ever carried that got me a phone number. And *she* started talking to me.

    As for teh kink: men are more deviant. (I’ve done very, very mild BDSM–any more than that is risking legal trouble.) In every way from serial killing to Nobel prizes.

    An interesting example of a non-misandristic lesbian seems to be Camille Paglia.

    • Replies: @Bill P

    As for teh kink: men are more deviant. (I’ve done very, very mild BDSM–any more than that is risking legal trouble.) In every way from serial killing to Nobel prizes.
     
    Maybe at the tail ends, but in aggregate men and women are pretty much equal offenders in this regard. You really split my sides with your German fetish, by the way.

    The "deviancy" is just an expression of human sexuality that is common to both men and women, and by acting it out you're ritualizing that side of us (which is normal human behavior). there's a hunter prey relationship on both sides, which is very fascinating. I think the Taoists capture it best with their philosophy.

    Best not to deny it. Christians are probably the worst offenders in this regard, although otherwise I hold Christianity to be a very functional and humane religion without which the modern age couldn't have been possible.

    Still, I'm starting to think it needs an update, and no, not Mormonism (although Richard Francis Burton - first translator of the Kama Sutra - had high hopes for the Mormon faith).
    , @TheJester
    Camille is one of my favorite columnists. Yes, she is different than most other lesbians. She has an adopted son who is now 13 years old. I believe he changed her perspective of the world. She wants her son to succeed in the world and has come to appreciate what men provide to humanity ... such as roads, airports, high-rise buildings, houses, airplanes, cars, electricity, and sewers. The list is very, very long. Have you ever seen feminists or lesbians fighting for their affirmative action quota to pour tar on roofs, pick up the garbage, or dig ditches for fiber optics cable?
  101. OT–
    Gladwell is stale because he has no comments section. Who does he get to mix it up with? His fellow New Yorkers, which keeps him grazing in the same fenced off field. I have to assume he lives in Manhattan or nearby. Westchester NY where Kristof lives?

  102. Anon • Disclaimer says:

    There’s a big gap between fantasy and reality. What a woman likes to fantasize about isn’t necessarily what she wants in real life. Think about it. There are men who fantasize about lying under a leather-clad dominatrix with a whip in her hand, purring threats at him like Catwoman, but how many of those men have gone to the trouble to have those fantasies actually fulfilled?

    Sorry, iSteve readers. Too many of you guys have that Aspy touch that makes you take everything literally and seriously. You think if women read it, they must want it. Sorry, 50 Shades is just a fantasy that the majority of women indulge in for a couple of hours and then laugh off.

    I do find it rather disturbing that so many commentators here don’t seem to believe that the space between your ears is your own legal property. It’s really no one else’s damned business what gets you off. Your sexual thoughts are not a crime–yet. Libertarianism is obviously not an iSteve political philosophy.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Ok, so at least you are admitting then that these tens of millions of women apparently do enjoy at least reading about things like anal fisting, right?
    , @Scotty G. Vito
    You must be new here -- iSteve is the least libertarian, in the archaic "live/let live" sense, web-log going... For 13 years it's hosted a running complaint on how the world would be better if Sailer were in charge of everybody and everything.
    , @anon
    No, woman, there are no men who have that fantasy. Men always fantasize about being the dominant.
  103. OT: 900 Black people — Nine Hundred “teens” — bum rushed a movie theater yesterday in Florida. Some raided a store. Others fired weapons. Nobody seems to be reporting that they were black, but they were. It sounds like a vibrant flash mob. Someone said it was like being stampeded by a herd of elephants.

  104. Rather than watch 50 Shades of Gray, my wife and I went to the Live at the Met livestream of the Tchaikovsky/Bartok double bill of Iolanta and Bluebeard’s Castle. The first is an archetypical relative of Sleeping Beauty. The latter is basically the same thing as 50 Shades, except Beauty does not redeem the Beast, she is killed just like all the others women before her. This is the flip side of the archetype, where the woman cannot overcome her attraction to the bad boy, even though she has every warning, and he can’t help hurting her, because it is in his nature.

    The strange thing is that even this dark, dark story is viewed as romantic by everyone involved (although Anna Netrebko, who played Iolanta, did tell everyone to go home and enjoy Valentine’s day after the first opera’s fairytale ending).

  105. @Rifleman

    I think the female POV would be interesting to read when discussing the female POV. 51% of humanity and all that.
     
    http://www.unz.com/comments/commenter/Dahlia/

    http://www.unz.com/comments/commenter/e/

    http://www.unz.com/comments/commenter/JSM/

    http://www.unz.com/comments/commenter/Californian/

    A commenter who posts here and goes by Legartha, or something like that, is a woman and always seems to have a pretty interesting point of view.

    • Replies: @Lagertha
    Thank You for your compliment. I don't always make good comments or factually succinct ones because I am not a journalist/academic or anyone that has any street-cred in public policy or punditry. I am a very private person who has never (after 1989) worked for any corporate organization as an employee. I am in the creative sphere and work for myself...the perfect corporation of one - I learned that from my professor cousin who taught at Wharton (brag, brag, brag). I am a USA & EU citizen; have grown up with entrepreneurs, military people, scientists, teachers and artists, and a smattering of eccentrics. I have no affiliation with any political philosophy/party/mind-set...I am "politically homeless" I like to say, which includes being suspicious of political correctness from time to time. Commenting on this blog is a varsity sport, so you may not get as many women since one has to be fairly thick-skinned and stubborn. And, well known women in the public sphere, don't have the time.
  106. “Our thrust is to prick holes in the stiff front erected by the smut dealers….”

  107. The shocking conclusion is that pornography, which is used to facilitate sex with one’s self, has its ultimate appeal in narcissism.

  108. @SFG
    Equal and opposite reactions. HRC's campaign is the triumph of feminism. 50 Shades is the reaction to it. As feminism grows in power and neuters men's accepted behavior, women long for the alpha they can no longer have.

    What *is* interesting, to me, is the difference between black solidarity and female solidarity. Blacks support the party line in huge numbers--I think Bush Jr. had a 2% approval rate among blacks at one point--and usually support black movements. Women, on the other hand...from what I've seen, 1/2 to 1/3 of women are actively hostile to feminism. The sexes don't hate each other the way blacks and whites do.

    The way I'd put it was described in that piece of crimethink, 'A Billion Wicked Thoughts' (google it if you are curious, I read it in the Boston Public Library and it is interesting stuff). Very, very few women seek submissive partners, whereas something like a third of men seek dominant partners. So evil alpha males (and Christian's behavior--stalking, etc.-- is wrong in a conventional moral sense if you take him as a human being rather than as the author's sexual fantasy, which of course he is) always have a fanclub, so to speak.

    This is why I think HRC’s candidacy will eventually implode. The first female president thing won’t resonate much with the ladies as the first black president thing does with Blacks.

    Add to that she is older and won’t inspire much hysteria among the young, who have little to no memory of the Clinton years. She’ll just be some old lady their grandma likes.

    • Replies: @TWS
    HRC is the Geraldine Ferraro of today. Nobody voted for her. None of the groups she identified with voted for her in the majority. Not women, not Catholics, not working women, even feminists stayed away. I think if she had an identical twin sister she would have voted Reagan/Bush.

    HRC will be the same.
  109. @SFG
    The first book of the series is the only book I have ever carried that got me a phone number. And *she* started talking to me.

    As for teh kink: men are more deviant. (I've done very, very mild BDSM--any more than that is risking legal trouble.) In every way from serial killing to Nobel prizes.

    An interesting example of a non-misandristic lesbian seems to be Camille Paglia.

    As for teh kink: men are more deviant. (I’ve done very, very mild BDSM–any more than that is risking legal trouble.) In every way from serial killing to Nobel prizes.

    Maybe at the tail ends, but in aggregate men and women are pretty much equal offenders in this regard. You really split my sides with your German fetish, by the way.

    The “deviancy” is just an expression of human sexuality that is common to both men and women, and by acting it out you’re ritualizing that side of us (which is normal human behavior). there’s a hunter prey relationship on both sides, which is very fascinating. I think the Taoists capture it best with their philosophy.

    Best not to deny it. Christians are probably the worst offenders in this regard, although otherwise I hold Christianity to be a very functional and humane religion without which the modern age couldn’t have been possible.

    Still, I’m starting to think it needs an update, and no, not Mormonism (although Richard Francis Burton – first translator of the Kama Sutra – had high hopes for the Mormon faith).

    • Replies: @Glaivester
    Maybe at the tail ends, but in aggregate men and women are pretty much equal offenders in this regard. You really split my sides with your German fetish, by the way.

    The “deviancy” is just an expression of human sexuality that is common to both men and women


    By definition, the tail ends are more deviant than the center, so more men at the tail ends would tend to make men more deviant.
  110. @Citizen of a Silly Country
    Regarding female solidarity, how many times have iSteve fans heard these lines from women, particularly easier to get along with women:

    1. Most of my friends have always been guys. I just can't deal with the drama of most women.

    2. I prefer to work with men than women. They're easier and just get the job done.

    3. I usually hate working for a woman boss.

    I'd suspect quite a bit. I know that I've heard those lines repeatedly since getting into the work world. It surprised me at first. I'd never heard anything like that from a guy. No straight guy says that most of his friends over the years have been women, and they sure as hell don't prefer to work with or under a woman - although many of us have had a good female boss or co-worker at some point.

    Again, I'd also emphasize that I hear these comments much more often from women that I respect and enjoy being around. I don't seem to hear those lines from more flighty women.

    1. Most of my friends have always been guys. I just can’t deal with the drama of most women.

    2. I prefer to work with men than women. They’re easier and just get the job done.

    3. I usually hate working for a woman boss.

    Its been said that one thing men and women have in common is they both enjoy the company of men.

    I’d add to that that both men and women enjoy looking at women.

  111. @OhComeOn
    Normal Women do not have rape fantasies and there is no bodice ripping in best selling romance novels

    You're reading way too much Roissy Steve and it's affecting your common sense

    Normal women do not have rape fantasies?

    It is the most common fantasy for women, this has been studied many times for decades.

    And the over 100 million women who loved reading 50 shades of Grey if they had any integrity would admit that is why they loved the book so much; because it is “border line” rape which is what they dream of.

    Of course they dream of rape from a good looking, tall, well endowed, rich man as Grey is in 50 shades but it is still fantasy of rape.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    "Of course they dream of rape from a good looking, tall, well endowed, rich man as Grey is in 50 shades but it is still fantasy of rape."

    They dream of rape where they are in complete control of all of the details of the rape ... which, of course, is not really rape at all.
  112. The most deplorable one [AKA "Fourth doorman of the apocalypse"] says:

    OT (where you get to decide whether it is On or Off) but given that some (perhaps) women get their knickers in a knot about STEM and such:

    http://qz.com/341447/why-coding-is-not-the-new-literacy/

    I wonder if they are ready to think about the possibility that the Visual Word Form Area is applicable to their movement and that it might be worse for them?

    First, you have to read shit-loads of stuff, then understand it at multiple levels …

  113. @syonredux

    The feminist assumption of female solidarity appears to be more of a lesbian fantasy than a characteristic of the real world.
     
    Along these lines, it's interesting to note that the "Bechdel Test" was devised by a Lesbian:

    The Bechdel test asks if a work of fiction features at least two women who talk to each other about something other than a man.
     
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bechdel_test

    Of course, the bulk of literature written by heterosexual women from Jane Austen on down has largely consisted of women talking about Mr Darcy and who is going to land him.

    The Bechdel test asks if a work of fiction features at least two women who talk to each other about something other than a man.

    That’s hilarious and brilliant.

  114. @Anonymous
    Fifty Shades of Grey must be one of the very worst books published in recent years. It's a sick joke of its own self parody of sheer awfulnesd, incidentally just like that other great female dominated area of mass entertainment, the soap opera.
    Whenever I hear the name of that trashy book and film I'm always reminded of that old English saying 'seven shades of shit' as in 'I'll knock seven shades of shit out of you'.

    You know what? This novel appealed to millions of women. I have not read it, but I work at a major public library and it has been on hold in more than one language, for years and years now. Whether it is badly written or not, and I think it is, given the few pages I have been subjected to during processing the books, it hits the spot of many, many women. I sense that many men feel threatened by the book. No one is reading it for “the articles”, as they used to say about Playboy.

    Porn for men is based on the desires of men, porn for women, written by women, is based on the desires of women. I have never understood the basically gay male nature of male directed porn, men seem to desire to look at, up close and very personal, endless penises. I, on the other hand, have zero desire to see female sexual organs. I would much rather watch gay male porn than lesbian or straight porn. The male habit of looking at other naked males seems very gay to me and makes me feel uncomfortable toward the men who get off on such things. I don’t like it, it creeps me out, but I let it slide, obviously, it serves some purpose.

    You need to let women slide on Fifty Shades of Gray. It turns them on, they can’t help it, no matter how silly it may seem to you. Roll with it. Pull some hair, do some spanking! Pin somebody down, make them take it!

    When I was in my teens, a friend’s mom, trapped in a hideous and abusive marriage, used to buy a lot of romance novels. My friend and I babysat for a lot of women’s kids. We would pass the naughtiest romance novels around. One of the women we babysat for had a husband who loved for his wife to read romance novels. He told us, “She reads them next to me in bed. She will read a bit, then she will molest me! She’ll read a bit more, then she will attack me! I don’t know what’s in them, but I love them!”

    • Replies: @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    "it hits the spot of many, many women"


    In more ways than one. So that's what women really want, to have their spot hit.

    I see what you did there.

  115. @donut
    Why didn't they like "Secretary" ? I thought it was pretty good . A good date movie .


    http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0274812/

    We did like “Secretary”.

  116. White people are 1 and 2 rappers at Grammy’s

    Eminem Beat Out Iggy Azalea For Best Rap Album
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/02/05/iggy-azalea-grammys_n_6622736.html

    Iggy Azalea Loves Francis Fukuyama. No, Really.
    http://foreignpolicy.com/2015/02/11/iggy_azalea_loves_francis_fukuyama_no_really/

  117. @Priss Factor
    With homos, it's their cultural talent that goes a long way.

    There are all kinds of sexual deviancies but why do homos get special privilege?

    Why no incest pride parade?

    Why no S&M pride parade?

    Why no polygamy pride parade?

    Why no food sex pride parade?

    Why no wife-swapping pride parade?

    Why no cuckold pride parade?

    Why no masturbation pride parade?

    Why no granny fetish pride parade? (Aka Harold and Maude pride parade)

    Why no costume sex pride parade?

    It's because people who indulge in such stuff have no special relation to any special talent?

    But homos do have great talent apart from sexual deviance. And that made all the difference. If most homos were poor trash living in trailers, I doubt if anyone would have cared.

    But many homos became writers, poets, artists, movie makers, fashionistas, agents, etc.

    Guess you’ve never heard of the San Francisco S&M Folsom St. Fair? Every year it pulls in about 150K on a Sat or Sun. It started as a leather fair, but it’s “progressed” beyond that, sad to say.

    I chose this link for you only because it has pics, but the goings on are even worse than what’s pictured here, with plenty of people pushing around their toddlers in strollers.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/09/24/folsom-street-fair-2012_n_1908382.html

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    The Folsom St. Fair seems to have little to do with actual BDSM, and everything to do with homosexuals engaging in sodomy in public.
    , @Ripple Earthdevil
    The Folsom Street Fair happens on the last Sunday in September. If you want to see just how much worse the goings on are, check out Zombie's pics from a number of years back. You have your choice of censored or uncensored versions. Don't say I didn't warn you.

    There's also the charmingly-named Up Your Alley street fair, which takes place on Dore Alley in the same South of Market neighborhood.
  118. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    I’m a woman, and I got bored reading all your comments.

    I would like to remind all the men here that the vast majority of humans on the planet have no intellectual ability to think through new ideas. The majority of competent, smart people regurgitate things they have already been told.

    Opinions are the realm of the few.

    Many of the men who say ‘All women want to be dominated by a thug’ are simply regurgitating that which you memorized from other blogs.

    And here’s the proof…Roissy (your worthless tin metal god) always warns you…women want to laugh so make it witty. Women like wit and verbal games. That’s not domination. That’s not thuggery. I’m sure a witty, educated British Parliamentarian of the 1800s would have had no problem getting laid.

    • Replies: @Bill P

    And here’s the proof…Roissy (your worthless tin metal god) always warns you…women want to laugh so make it witty. Women like wit and verbal games...
     
    Judging by the popularity and content of 50 shades, it seems women want a lot more than that!

    It's kind of funny how "on display" female sexuality has become these days. The deniers end up looking like fools or liars every time.

    Possibly the saddest upholders of the myths are retrograde pastors dashing to and fro shaking the tin cup and pant-hooting like apes to try to maintain the illusion.

    And you speak of Roissy's tin god...

    Nice try.
    , @Ryan
    I used to think that women were simply lying to men about "what women really want."

    Now I'm convinced that they're just lying to themselves. Passing on bad information to men is just a side effect.
    , @TWS
    Many of the men who say ‘All women want to be dominated by a thug’ are simply regurgitating that which you memorized from other blogs.

    Sorry sweetness but that is observable reality. Try being a police officer, you'll see many, many women chasing the thug. Work in social services, you'll see the same. Woman after woman having thug babies (or not as the thug dictates). Work in corrections for prisons and visit a parolee's house on a Saturday morning to two or three women 'servicing' the thug (maybe for drugs maybe not).

    Modern women have no skills to deal with the thug. Real men used to be dominant enough to deal with the women in their lives. Now they are neutered by society and the state. For public consumption women might pretend to be all independent and free willed. In private those same women are reading fantasies about men who brutalize and dominate them, are texting thugs and sending nude pictures and meeting with them when their husbands aren't looking. They are finding the thug that society marginalized at one time.
  119. I guess this is a breakthrough for the old formula where Sailer would merely repeat himself, tweaking a few words here and there (often more than once in the space of a couple hours), Goldilocks-like until the sound of his own voice seemed just right to him. Now he plucks out comments from Internet riff-raff which regurgitate and thereby “reinforce” his pet theories. Such is the data-gathering life

  120. @Priss Factor
    With homos, it's their cultural talent that goes a long way.

    There are all kinds of sexual deviancies but why do homos get special privilege?

    Why no incest pride parade?

    Why no S&M pride parade?

    Why no polygamy pride parade?

    Why no food sex pride parade?

    Why no wife-swapping pride parade?

    Why no cuckold pride parade?

    Why no masturbation pride parade?

    Why no granny fetish pride parade? (Aka Harold and Maude pride parade)

    Why no costume sex pride parade?

    It's because people who indulge in such stuff have no special relation to any special talent?

    But homos do have great talent apart from sexual deviance. And that made all the difference. If most homos were poor trash living in trailers, I doubt if anyone would have cared.

    But many homos became writers, poets, artists, movie makers, fashionistas, agents, etc.

    I was prepared to call your “point” inane/irrelevant but your poetic use of line breaks won me over.

  121. @e
    Guess you've never heard of the San Francisco S&M Folsom St. Fair? Every year it pulls in about 150K on a Sat or Sun. It started as a leather fair, but it's "progressed" beyond that, sad to say.

    I chose this link for you only because it has pics, but the goings on are even worse than what's pictured here, with plenty of people pushing around their toddlers in strollers.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/09/24/folsom-street-fair-2012_n_1908382.html

    The Folsom St. Fair seems to have little to do with actual BDSM, and everything to do with homosexuals engaging in sodomy in public.

  122. @Anon
    There's a big gap between fantasy and reality. What a woman likes to fantasize about isn't necessarily what she wants in real life. Think about it. There are men who fantasize about lying under a leather-clad dominatrix with a whip in her hand, purring threats at him like Catwoman, but how many of those men have gone to the trouble to have those fantasies actually fulfilled?

    Sorry, iSteve readers. Too many of you guys have that Aspy touch that makes you take everything literally and seriously. You think if women read it, they must want it. Sorry, 50 Shades is just a fantasy that the majority of women indulge in for a couple of hours and then laugh off.

    I do find it rather disturbing that so many commentators here don't seem to believe that the space between your ears is your own legal property. It's really no one else's damned business what gets you off. Your sexual thoughts are not a crime--yet. Libertarianism is obviously not an iSteve political philosophy.

    Ok, so at least you are admitting then that these tens of millions of women apparently do enjoy at least reading about things like anal fisting, right?

  123. I know what I want.

    But I’m not going to tell you.

  124. @anony-mouse
    There are zero regular female writers at unz.com (unlike for example takimag or amconmag).

    I think the female POV would be interesting to read when discussing the female POV. 51% of humanity and all that.

    There are some prominent female authors on popular libertarian leaning blog sites similar to Unz, but probably wouldn’t fit in as well here. One that comes to mind is Karen Kwiatkowsi. Quite a fascinating woman – retired Air Force colonel, some time political candidate, and full time antiwar activist. She also seems to have zero interest in writing about male-female stuff.

    • Replies: @redzengenoist
    Let me second the call for Karen Kwiatkowsi. She's outstanding.
    , @anonymous
    She also seems to have zero interest in writing about male-female stuff.

    That's because she has some brains, something that's in short supply amongst the followers of fashion. After a while all this 'what do women want' stuff gets fatiguing, especially when most of it seems to descend towards the frivolous and the trend of the moment. If you're a guy who looks reasonable and has a buck in his pocket then let them try to figure out what you want.
  125. There is a parody of dime-store S&M fantasy-fetishism in the 2nd part of Lars von Trier’s “Nymphomaniac.” To briefly recap the film’s convoluted half-serious plot, the Charlotte Gainsbourg protagonist compulsively veers from one risky-sex situation to the next like a drug fiend, pushing the boundaries until she winds up in the dingy fluorescent-lit waiting room of the local presumed whip/chain chief practitioner. The guy makes a big show of arbitrary discipline, i.e. turning away the women in the waiting room to come back the next day, but she’s both eccentric and not very obedient by nature so eventually she’s pushed her way into the doctor’s office, so to speak. The bondage master turns out to be, instead of a dashing aristocratic/demonic Pan figure, a somewhat depressed-looking younger guy (effete Brit Jamie Bell is pretty good in the role for milking this angle) who treats this job as a mundane chore and upbraids her about adjusting the ropes or the rack to the right measurements, etc.

    A couple laughs arise from the torture expert’s autistic focus on technical details, e.g. instruction of the Gainsbourg character in making a cat-o’-nine-tails. Anyway, I thought it a mildly funny bit and a decent spoof, but reactions I’ve heard from female viewers don’t seem to find the same humor — they cast it as a clinical extreme-horror type of thing; I think such an interpretation is plainly contradicted by **spoilers** her not being “cured” by these workmanlike S&M sessions, thus going on to the next level, but Vive le difference I s’pose…

  126. @anony-mouse
    There are zero regular female writers at unz.com (unlike for example takimag or amconmag).

    I think the female POV would be interesting to read when discussing the female POV. 51% of humanity and all that.

    @ anony-mouse

    “There are zero regular female writers at unz.com (unlike for example takimag or amconmag).

    I think the female POV would be interesting to read when discussing the female POV. 51% of humanity and all that.”

    Think again.

  127. @Anon
    There's a big gap between fantasy and reality. What a woman likes to fantasize about isn't necessarily what she wants in real life. Think about it. There are men who fantasize about lying under a leather-clad dominatrix with a whip in her hand, purring threats at him like Catwoman, but how many of those men have gone to the trouble to have those fantasies actually fulfilled?

    Sorry, iSteve readers. Too many of you guys have that Aspy touch that makes you take everything literally and seriously. You think if women read it, they must want it. Sorry, 50 Shades is just a fantasy that the majority of women indulge in for a couple of hours and then laugh off.

    I do find it rather disturbing that so many commentators here don't seem to believe that the space between your ears is your own legal property. It's really no one else's damned business what gets you off. Your sexual thoughts are not a crime--yet. Libertarianism is obviously not an iSteve political philosophy.

    You must be new here — iSteve is the least libertarian, in the archaic “live/let live” sense, web-log going… For 13 years it’s hosted a running complaint on how the world would be better if Sailer were in charge of everybody and everything.

  128. @Anonymous
    I'm a woman, and I got bored reading all your comments.

    I would like to remind all the men here that the vast majority of humans on the planet have no intellectual ability to think through new ideas. The majority of competent, smart people regurgitate things they have already been told.

    Opinions are the realm of the few.

    Many of the men who say 'All women want to be dominated by a thug' are simply regurgitating that which you memorized from other blogs.

    And here's the proof...Roissy (your worthless tin metal god) always warns you...women want to laugh so make it witty. Women like wit and verbal games. That's not domination. That's not thuggery. I'm sure a witty, educated British Parliamentarian of the 1800s would have had no problem getting laid.

    And here’s the proof…Roissy (your worthless tin metal god) always warns you…women want to laugh so make it witty. Women like wit and verbal games…

    Judging by the popularity and content of 50 shades, it seems women want a lot more than that!

    It’s kind of funny how “on display” female sexuality has become these days. The deniers end up looking like fools or liars every time.

    Possibly the saddest upholders of the myths are retrograde pastors dashing to and fro shaking the tin cup and pant-hooting like apes to try to maintain the illusion.

    And you speak of Roissy’s tin god…

    Nice try.

  129. @anon
    OT/WWT:

    Google Image results for Anna Grodska, the Polish Green Party's candidate for the presidency of Poland.

    Yes, it used to be a man. And it's currently a member of the Polish parliament.

    OUCH! Give a person a warning hint next time you post a link like that, please? It nearly put my eye out.

  130. @Anonymous
    I'm a woman, and I got bored reading all your comments.

    I would like to remind all the men here that the vast majority of humans on the planet have no intellectual ability to think through new ideas. The majority of competent, smart people regurgitate things they have already been told.

    Opinions are the realm of the few.

    Many of the men who say 'All women want to be dominated by a thug' are simply regurgitating that which you memorized from other blogs.

    And here's the proof...Roissy (your worthless tin metal god) always warns you...women want to laugh so make it witty. Women like wit and verbal games. That's not domination. That's not thuggery. I'm sure a witty, educated British Parliamentarian of the 1800s would have had no problem getting laid.

    I used to think that women were simply lying to men about “what women really want.”

    Now I’m convinced that they’re just lying to themselves. Passing on bad information to men is just a side effect.

  131. A woman above thinks it’s creepy that str8 porn features so much schlong, but this is merely the result of a communication breakdown between producers and consumers. I’d much rather just watch cute girls finger themselves, but nobody’s asking me. Actually, in the early ’80s much porn was just that.

  132. The Davinci Cunt.

    Passion of the whore.

    American Stripper

    Little Shop of whores

  133. Interview for Christmas release.

    Fifty for Valentine release.

    What happened to this country?

  134. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Canadian Friend
    Normal women do not have rape fantasies?

    It is the most common fantasy for women, this has been studied many times for decades.

    And the over 100 million women who loved reading 50 shades of Grey if they had any integrity would admit that is why they loved the book so much; because it is "border line" rape which is what they dream of.

    Of course they dream of rape from a good looking, tall, well endowed, rich man as Grey is in 50 shades but it is still fantasy of rape.

    “Of course they dream of rape from a good looking, tall, well endowed, rich man as Grey is in 50 shades but it is still fantasy of rape.”

    They dream of rape where they are in complete control of all of the details of the rape … which, of course, is not really rape at all.

  135. @Hapalong Cassidy
    There are some prominent female authors on popular libertarian leaning blog sites similar to Unz, but probably wouldn't fit in as well here. One that comes to mind is Karen Kwiatkowsi. Quite a fascinating woman - retired Air Force colonel, some time political candidate, and full time antiwar activist. She also seems to have zero interest in writing about male-female stuff.

    Let me second the call for Karen Kwiatkowsi. She’s outstanding.

  136. OMFG! What did I just do???? Can you just delete what I just posted? I am such an idiot (has been suggested by your posters!) for writing that post!. Well, catching some sleep as I am skiing tomorrow.

  137. Michelle,
    Any more of that and I’ll start using ‘Peter North’ as my handle, (definitely no pun intended), here.

  138. @e
    Guess you've never heard of the San Francisco S&M Folsom St. Fair? Every year it pulls in about 150K on a Sat or Sun. It started as a leather fair, but it's "progressed" beyond that, sad to say.

    I chose this link for you only because it has pics, but the goings on are even worse than what's pictured here, with plenty of people pushing around their toddlers in strollers.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/09/24/folsom-street-fair-2012_n_1908382.html

    The Folsom Street Fair happens on the last Sunday in September. If you want to see just how much worse the goings on are, check out Zombie’s pics from a number of years back. You have your choice of censored or uncensored versions. Don’t say I didn’t warn you.

    There’s also the charmingly-named Up Your Alley street fair, which takes place on Dore Alley in the same South of Market neighborhood.

  139. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Anonymous
    Funny, the real social gender "contsruct" seems to be the LESBIAN.

    Their role is simply that: a role played by many women throughout their lives based upon sexual availability of men, innate childish curiousity and child-like role-playing (compare little and big girls playing "tea party" and "house", with boys; little boys don't play "army", "cops and robbers" or "Cowboys and Indians", they do it, with great gusto and physicality!)

    So many "lesbians" move into and out of that role or status, that one only knows when a woman will assume that particular identity or for how long or give it up for a straight identity. Hence, many college coeds in today's limited hetero-sexual college environment, simply declare they are LUGs---"lesbians until graduation", when they get back to the real world!

    Further, if lesbians were a naturally-occurring, non-socio gender grouping, why do so many use strap-ons to simulate male sexual acts? Wouldn't they just be limited by their biological evolution, to what they actually know and can perform as women?

    Sex is behavior and behavior is learned. That's why the LGBT agenda must be so strongly emphasized, defended and crammed down the throats of straight people.

    … is behavior and behavior is learned.

    Most people here believe many behaviors are 50:50 heritable. Even a substantial portion of the remaining 50% is thought to stem from non-learned causes in utero development, early childhood physical environment, parasites et cetera.

    Sure lesbianism is rare, and even rarer by your added constraints of exclusivity and life long persistence; rareness of a condition doesn’t make it a social construct. e.g. Gluten free diet maybe a fad, but that does not mean Coeliac Disease, 1% prevalence, is a social construct.

  140. @Priss Factor
    If beavis and butthead were female, what would they say other than 'boing'?

    If beavis and butthead were female, what would they say other than ‘boing’?

    Splash?

  141. Eh, I commented here under a more feminine handle, but I get more replies posting with a genderless handle, even though either way I post like the reactionary conservative housewife that I am.

    Steve’s actually always attracted quite a few of the ladies, they just don’t all use feminine handles. A lot of them were anons back in the day. On isteve, a lady can post without dudes drooling all over her or calling her a soulless bleep bleep bleep. So this blog really has a fairly high female presence for an altright blog. There is neither insult nor pedestalization. It’s refreshingly bland to comment as a female here.

    • Replies: @Kylie
    @ The Practical Conservative,

    "On isteve, a lady can post without dudes drooling all over her or calling her a soulless bleep bleep bleep. "

    I do that on the overwhelming male gun forum where I've been a regular for 2 1/2 years. It's a place where newbies identifying themselves as female are usually run off in one day. Some say it's rough but it's not, it's just juvenile wrt to females and otherwise fairly knowledgeable.

    Of course, I just speak my mind there as I do here, I don't use my femininity one way or the other. I ask no quarter and grant no favors. Works for me.
    , @JSM
    Yeppers. That would be me.
  142. I saw the movie. Let’s just say, Fifty Shades of Lame!

  143. @Cagey Beast
    I don't think so. Ironically women never seem to have anything interesting to say about what they want when it comes to men. They want everything and its opposite and they want both without having to ask for it because that ruins the whole thing and makes them not want it anymore. Women are not very interesting on the topic of women.

    Ironically women never seem to have anything interesting to say about what they want when it comes to men. They want everything and its opposite and they want both without having to ask for it because that ruins the whole thing and makes them not want it anymore.

    I think it’s kind of hilarious how men, in general, act all confused about what women want, and accuse us of being inconsistent and illogical and all that bad stuff. But just as men want a cook in the kitchen, a lady in the parlour, and a whore in the bedroom, women want a success at the office, a gentleman in the parlour, and a powerful man who knows what he’s doing in the bedroom. There’s no “inconsistency” from women in that regard any more than there is inconsistency from men. It’s all really not that hard, guys.

  144. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @OhComeOn
    Normal Women do not have rape fantasies and there is no bodice ripping in best selling romance novels

    You're reading way too much Roissy Steve and it's affecting your common sense

    As far as women not having rape fantasies, look up the book “A Billion Wicked Thoughts” which examined the pornography habits of both men and women. What is the #1 fantasy consumed by women (not just in 50 Shades, but all women’s porn/romance-novels)? A rape fantasy–to be taken and dominated by a man. No, this isn’t the real world rape experience, it’s a fantasy one. Where the woman is sexually attracted to the man and she is never physically injured. Nonetheless, it is a fantasy of her being in a position of weakness and being force against her will (at least her conscious will) to have sex with a man that overpowers her. Which is, by any definition, rape.

    The male hero pseudo-raping the heroine in romance novels is so common that “bodice ripping” became a cliche decades ago. A quick scan of almost any romance novel written in the last 50 years will find at least one scene that meets the above definition.

    According to the The Romance Writers of America, in 2002 40 million American women read romance novels. About 1 out of every 4 women.

    Unless you are prepared to say that 25% of American women are not “normal women,” then you are going to have to come to grips with the fact that normal women DO have rape fantasies.

  145. @anon
    After many decades, I have concluded that women want utopia and are continually frustrated that they can't have it. Men are more content with their circumstances. To Wit the 70% of divorces initiated by women. Also it seems that most women stop even thinking about sex after 40.

    After many decades, I have concluded that women want utopia and are continually frustrated that they can’t have it. Men are more content with their circumstances. To Wit the 70% of divorces initiated by women. Also it seems that most women stop even thinking about sex after 40.

    The kind of life that most women want, deep down, is pretty much impossible. Women want a husband and kids, but they don’t want to be stuck at home alone all day, with no adults to talk to, no one to socialize with. The old parish-centered neighborhoods have been destroyed, and women’s social lives — the set-up in which they could share chores with other women, babysit each other’s kids and keep an eye out for them so they can play outside, get together and have coffee, get some time to breathe and pursue things of an intellectual or creative nature, etc. — was destroyed with it (see this book about the destruction of the old neighborhoods).

    The nuclear family isn’t the way it’s supposed to be, but people moving all over the country for the sake of employment has destroyed the extended family. With those old neighborhoods and the extended family killed off, women are screwed. Of course a woman will be miserable stuck at home alone all day, with no time to breathe, with no adults to talk to for most of the day, and the only adult who does come around being the husband who gets home at 6 and just wants to chillax and watch TV. And who could blame him? He’s been out, working all day. But who could blame her, either, for being miserable?

    Nothing will get fixed until extended family makes a comeback, and monocultural neighborhoods, which allowed women to trust their neighbors with their kids, and which gave them social lives, return. Without those in place, women can’t be happy at home, raising kids (generally speaking).

    I think this is a really serious problem. Intelligence is mostly inherited from the mother, and a thinking man would want a wife with brains. But the women with brains are bored to DEATH dealing with kids ALL day, with no companionship and no time for a life of the mind, no time to get creative. So smart women don’t have kids. And, so, we get what we got: an idiocracy.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Tracy, You make a lot of great points, but FWIW I've been fairly surprised by how many people I went to college (top 20 college) and high school (excellent reputation in affluent area) with who are very smart and successful have three to four kids.
    , @JSM
    Thank you, Tracy.

    Well said.
    , @Anonymous
    Your characterization of domestic life in the past is really inaccurate.

    Before modern appliances and packaged food and the like, housewives had to work essentially all day to maintain the household. There wasn't any significant "chores sharing" because most women had enough of their own and their family's chores to deal with. Kids roamed around outside by themselves and nobody really watched them.

    The only women with free time were wealthy women and they for the most part weren't doing anything intellectual or creative. They were out shopping or having brunch with their friends.
    , @Jack D
    >Intelligence is mostly inherited from the mother

    I don't think that's what the science says.

    Also this is not 1965 anymore. Women are out of the house working almost as much as men.
    , @The Practical Conservative
    It's so refreshing to see someone sum up one of the major problems succinctly. I just make lots of blog posts about it as one of those housewives. It's not really limited to boredom though, highly intelligent infants and toddlers in particular can be more exhausting and challenging physically and mentally.

    I was going to say more, but I'm too tired to get the thoughts to gel even in the space of a comment. The latest addition to the old fam wakes hourly at night and without our paid help (which is really the only thing you left out, how even American women used to have paid help and household services far more often, all the way into the 1980s actually, although huge subcultures lost their paid help access between the 40s and 60s) I really don't know how we'd all make it through the day.
    , @Anonymous
    This sounds like a contemporary update to the noble savage myth, with the tribe and idyllic jungle replaced with a prewar Polish-Catholic neighborhood in Chicago. Apparently these housewives weren't working all day looking after 6 kids and doing chores without any appliances while their husbands were losing their fingers at the meatpacking plant. They had an army of neighborhood help doing all their chores for them
  146. @TGGP
    According to bechdeltest.com, both Pride and Prejudice & Sense and Sensibility pass all three tests. I'm not sure if that's what the Women In Film site uses, but there are apparently graphs you can generate.

    Fan fiction has a heavily female, if unrepresentative, demographic. Someone has seen fit to do some statistical analysis of which traits are popular with writers vs readers etc. Bottom-line: there are a lot of women into fucked up shit, although I suppose someone would say the same of men if they did an analysis of internet pornography.

    The main characters in both Pride and Prejudice and Sense and Sensibility are womem, who spends a lot of time talking with their sisters, mothers, and friends. Easy pass.

  147. @notsaying
    Men are into almost an infinite number of fetishes.
    I'm familiar with fetish sites and men are into absolutely anything you can imagine, no matter how weird, how vile, how innocuous sounding (like the guys who get off on popping balloons), how painful, you name it, there are guys into it and they have a forum where they discuss it. The breadth of male dominated fetishes is astonishing and you just can't imagine them all.

    For women it's quite different.
    In most fetish forums, you have 100 guys trying to grab the attention of the 5 women who are part of the group. Among the 5 women, 2 are professionals, 1 is there because her man is into the weird fetish and the last 2 are into the fetish.

    For what fetishes do you find ratios more like 100 guys for 30 women ? In any fetish forum that's about "daddies" punishing their bad girls, rape fantasies, fantasies about strong guys humiliating and treating the woman like dirt and fantasies about women being "forced" to do horrible things to please "daddy", etc. You'll also find a disturbing number of women who participate in death fantasy forums where they fantasize about some predator guy killing them then eating them, etc. Those are the kind of fetishes that women really get into and in a sick way. You won't find women in the groups about having sex with car engines (you will find guys into that though, for sure).

    A friend once emailed me a link to a site catering to guys who get off on pictures of women wearing puffy winter coats. The range of fetishes approaches infinity.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    What a great fetish to have. All you have to do is go out on the street in any Northern city between October and March and your fantasies are fulfilled.
  148. @Michelle
    You know what? This novel appealed to millions of women. I have not read it, but I work at a major public library and it has been on hold in more than one language, for years and years now. Whether it is badly written or not, and I think it is, given the few pages I have been subjected to during processing the books, it hits the spot of many, many women. I sense that many men feel threatened by the book. No one is reading it for "the articles", as they used to say about Playboy.

    Porn for men is based on the desires of men, porn for women, written by women, is based on the desires of women. I have never understood the basically gay male nature of male directed porn, men seem to desire to look at, up close and very personal, endless penises. I, on the other hand, have zero desire to see female sexual organs. I would much rather watch gay male porn than lesbian or straight porn. The male habit of looking at other naked males seems very gay to me and makes me feel uncomfortable toward the men who get off on such things. I don't like it, it creeps me out, but I let it slide, obviously, it serves some purpose.

    You need to let women slide on Fifty Shades of Gray. It turns them on, they can't help it, no matter how silly it may seem to you. Roll with it. Pull some hair, do some spanking! Pin somebody down, make them take it!

    When I was in my teens, a friend's mom, trapped in a hideous and abusive marriage, used to buy a lot of romance novels. My friend and I babysat for a lot of women's kids. We would pass the naughtiest romance novels around. One of the women we babysat for had a husband who loved for his wife to read romance novels. He told us, "She reads them next to me in bed. She will read a bit, then she will molest me! She'll read a bit more, then she will attack me! I don't know what's in them, but I love them!"

    “it hits the spot of many, many women”

    In more ways than one. So that’s what women really want, to have their spot hit.

    I see what you did there.

  149. @hbd chick
    "What do little girls (in waiting) want? It appears to be much the same, given the success of the Princess movies and the paraphernalia in the Princess Industry."

    there's something to what SomethingToSay has to say. exxxceeept for the WILD success of Frozen which totally upended the princess fairy tale. (i think a lot of little girls just want to wear pretty princess dresses.)

    I think part of the problem is that women spend all their formative years in the west being explicitly and implicitly catered to. Then as they hit their teens they discover that does not float their boat. They are designed by nature since we were chimps kissing cousins to be dominated by the men around them.

    The first time they read something like ’50 Shades’ or they run across the thug guy from autoshop or they read about that nice ‘Joker’ Tsarneav and their little gina starts tingling. They’re told that men are weaker, more foolish etc and suddenly they are faced with a decisive, bold and dominant man. Read the unsolicited letters women write men in prison. Watch the interaction at any bar. Women no longer have the skills necessary to deal with the true alpha because they are told they do not exist.

  150. anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Hapalong Cassidy
    There are some prominent female authors on popular libertarian leaning blog sites similar to Unz, but probably wouldn't fit in as well here. One that comes to mind is Karen Kwiatkowsi. Quite a fascinating woman - retired Air Force colonel, some time political candidate, and full time antiwar activist. She also seems to have zero interest in writing about male-female stuff.

    She also seems to have zero interest in writing about male-female stuff.

    That’s because she has some brains, something that’s in short supply amongst the followers of fashion. After a while all this ‘what do women want’ stuff gets fatiguing, especially when most of it seems to descend towards the frivolous and the trend of the moment. If you’re a guy who looks reasonable and has a buck in his pocket then let them try to figure out what you want.

  151. @Anonymous
    I'm a woman, and I got bored reading all your comments.

    I would like to remind all the men here that the vast majority of humans on the planet have no intellectual ability to think through new ideas. The majority of competent, smart people regurgitate things they have already been told.

    Opinions are the realm of the few.

    Many of the men who say 'All women want to be dominated by a thug' are simply regurgitating that which you memorized from other blogs.

    And here's the proof...Roissy (your worthless tin metal god) always warns you...women want to laugh so make it witty. Women like wit and verbal games. That's not domination. That's not thuggery. I'm sure a witty, educated British Parliamentarian of the 1800s would have had no problem getting laid.

    Many of the men who say ‘All women want to be dominated by a thug’ are simply regurgitating that which you memorized from other blogs.

    Sorry sweetness but that is observable reality. Try being a police officer, you’ll see many, many women chasing the thug. Work in social services, you’ll see the same. Woman after woman having thug babies (or not as the thug dictates). Work in corrections for prisons and visit a parolee’s house on a Saturday morning to two or three women ‘servicing’ the thug (maybe for drugs maybe not).

    Modern women have no skills to deal with the thug. Real men used to be dominant enough to deal with the women in their lives. Now they are neutered by society and the state. For public consumption women might pretend to be all independent and free willed. In private those same women are reading fantasies about men who brutalize and dominate them, are texting thugs and sending nude pictures and meeting with them when their husbands aren’t looking. They are finding the thug that society marginalized at one time.

    • Replies: @Rifleman
    TWS, I reviewed many of your comments and thought they were pretty good BUT....

    ...the problem I have with guys like you and many others here is your White male, sexual inadequacy driven agenda visa via "thugs", mainly black males and lesser hispanics/muslim maales, and women, especially White women.

    Your personal sexual inadequacy, anatomical and social, clearly leads to crackpot views of women and what women really want.

    This is CLEARLY a White male tendency. Legendary stevosphere troll "Whiskey" is famous for it.

    The blogger named "Roissy in DC/Chateau Heartiste" is another.

    It's embarrassing and bizarre but its everywhere. Why?

    Here's your quote that expresses a particular White male fear - and maybe a secret desire as well -

    Sorry sweetness but that is observable reality. Try being a police officer, you’ll see many, many women chasing the thug. Work in social services, you’ll see the same. Woman after woman having thug babies (or not as the thug dictates). Work in corrections for prisons and visit a parolee’s house on a Saturday morning to two or three women ‘servicing’ the thug (maybe for drugs maybe not).

    Modern women have no skills to deal with the thug. Real men used to be dominant enough to deal with the women in their lives. Now they are neutered by society and the state. For public consumption women might pretend to be all independent and free willed. In private those same women are reading fantasies about men who brutalize and dominate them, are texting thugs and sending nude pictures and meeting with them when their husbands aren’t looking. They are finding the thug that society marginalized at one time.
     
    Will some one PLEASE psychoanalyze this White male sexual paranoia which seems to drive certain genres of pornography, "cuckold" porn seems to be their favorite!

    What is going on with you guys!

    This is your view of the REAL world of (White) women's desires?
    , @anonymous
    I've seen what you're talking about. But really, those women are mostly sub-par in intelligence, physical appearance and personal psychology. Nobody reading this blog would even notice them or look twice. Water finds it's own level.
    , @woman
    Some women want to be dominated/get rough sex from a MASCULINE MAN...a hot guy... whether that's a thug or an alpha in a suit or a hippie/surfer/rock musician type with long hair. Yes, some of us lust after masculine men. Masculinity isn't all about muscles either or body per se... personality plays a role too.
  152. @The Practical Conservative
    Eh, I commented here under a more feminine handle, but I get more replies posting with a genderless handle, even though either way I post like the reactionary conservative housewife that I am.

    Steve's actually always attracted quite a few of the ladies, they just don't all use feminine handles. A lot of them were anons back in the day. On isteve, a lady can post without dudes drooling all over her or calling her a soulless bleep bleep bleep. So this blog really has a fairly high female presence for an altright blog. There is neither insult nor pedestalization. It's refreshingly bland to comment as a female here.

    @ The Practical Conservative,

    “On isteve, a lady can post without dudes drooling all over her or calling her a soulless bleep bleep bleep. ”

    I do that on the overwhelming male gun forum where I’ve been a regular for 2 1/2 years. It’s a place where newbies identifying themselves as female are usually run off in one day. Some say it’s rough but it’s not, it’s just juvenile wrt to females and otherwise fairly knowledgeable.

    Of course, I just speak my mind there as I do here, I don’t use my femininity one way or the other. I ask no quarter and grant no favors. Works for me.

  153. @Tracy

    After many decades, I have concluded that women want utopia and are continually frustrated that they can’t have it. Men are more content with their circumstances. To Wit the 70% of divorces initiated by women. Also it seems that most women stop even thinking about sex after 40.
     
    The kind of life that most women want, deep down, is pretty much impossible. Women want a husband and kids, but they don't want to be stuck at home alone all day, with no adults to talk to, no one to socialize with. The old parish-centered neighborhoods have been destroyed, and women's social lives -- the set-up in which they could share chores with other women, babysit each other's kids and keep an eye out for them so they can play outside, get together and have coffee, get some time to breathe and pursue things of an intellectual or creative nature, etc. -- was destroyed with it (see this book about the destruction of the old neighborhoods).

    The nuclear family isn't the way it's supposed to be, but people moving all over the country for the sake of employment has destroyed the extended family. With those old neighborhoods and the extended family killed off, women are screwed. Of course a woman will be miserable stuck at home alone all day, with no time to breathe, with no adults to talk to for most of the day, and the only adult who does come around being the husband who gets home at 6 and just wants to chillax and watch TV. And who could blame him? He's been out, working all day. But who could blame her, either, for being miserable?

    Nothing will get fixed until extended family makes a comeback, and monocultural neighborhoods, which allowed women to trust their neighbors with their kids, and which gave them social lives, return. Without those in place, women can't be happy at home, raising kids (generally speaking).

    I think this is a really serious problem. Intelligence is mostly inherited from the mother, and a thinking man would want a wife with brains. But the women with brains are bored to DEATH dealing with kids ALL day, with no companionship and no time for a life of the mind, no time to get creative. So smart women don't have kids. And, so, we get what we got: an idiocracy.

    Tracy, You make a lot of great points, but FWIW I’ve been fairly surprised by how many people I went to college (top 20 college) and high school (excellent reputation in affluent area) with who are very smart and successful have three to four kids.

  154. Libertarianism is obviously not an iSteve political philosophy.

    Obviously, indeed. Libertarianism is a “blank slate” political philosophy which requires us to pretend that every single person in the world, male or female, young or old, rich or poor, Christian or Muslim, smart or stupid, is basically identical. Steve is a HBD blogger, perhaps the forerunner of all HBD bloggers, and HBD is all about examining the distinctive properties of different groups of people. So yeah, you don’t see libertarianism get much traction here.

    I agree in general with your other point. In a better world the fact that womens sexual fantasies (a) exist and (b) are different from (and are somewhat complimentary with) mens sexual fantasies would not even be worth commenting on, because such a thing would be taken as given. But we live in a libertarian world which requires us all to pretend that all people are interchangeable units and that no meaningful differences exist between men and women. And in that sort of world it’s always worth noticing when people as they actually are persist in behaving differently from the way the reigning ideology says they should.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Libertarians do take into account human differences. In fact, that is one of the strengths of the philosophy. One person can live in the city, someone else on a farm. One person goes to church, another to a Wicca convention, another looks at puffy coat porn. We all do different things because we are different. HBD tells us that one size does not fit all, either with groups or individuals. No contradiction with liberty there.

    It's also worth pointing out that a lot of our problems with immigration are caused by the welfare state. Cut that off, and you would have a lot fewer immigrants, and the ones left would be more productive.

    Yes, libertarians that are open-borders are idiots, especially since we do have a welfare state. But the main reason why our immigration is bad is because the immigrants vote for statist candidates.
  155. @Tracy

    After many decades, I have concluded that women want utopia and are continually frustrated that they can’t have it. Men are more content with their circumstances. To Wit the 70% of divorces initiated by women. Also it seems that most women stop even thinking about sex after 40.
     
    The kind of life that most women want, deep down, is pretty much impossible. Women want a husband and kids, but they don't want to be stuck at home alone all day, with no adults to talk to, no one to socialize with. The old parish-centered neighborhoods have been destroyed, and women's social lives -- the set-up in which they could share chores with other women, babysit each other's kids and keep an eye out for them so they can play outside, get together and have coffee, get some time to breathe and pursue things of an intellectual or creative nature, etc. -- was destroyed with it (see this book about the destruction of the old neighborhoods).

    The nuclear family isn't the way it's supposed to be, but people moving all over the country for the sake of employment has destroyed the extended family. With those old neighborhoods and the extended family killed off, women are screwed. Of course a woman will be miserable stuck at home alone all day, with no time to breathe, with no adults to talk to for most of the day, and the only adult who does come around being the husband who gets home at 6 and just wants to chillax and watch TV. And who could blame him? He's been out, working all day. But who could blame her, either, for being miserable?

    Nothing will get fixed until extended family makes a comeback, and monocultural neighborhoods, which allowed women to trust their neighbors with their kids, and which gave them social lives, return. Without those in place, women can't be happy at home, raising kids (generally speaking).

    I think this is a really serious problem. Intelligence is mostly inherited from the mother, and a thinking man would want a wife with brains. But the women with brains are bored to DEATH dealing with kids ALL day, with no companionship and no time for a life of the mind, no time to get creative. So smart women don't have kids. And, so, we get what we got: an idiocracy.

    Thank you, Tracy.

    Well said.

  156. @The Practical Conservative
    Eh, I commented here under a more feminine handle, but I get more replies posting with a genderless handle, even though either way I post like the reactionary conservative housewife that I am.

    Steve's actually always attracted quite a few of the ladies, they just don't all use feminine handles. A lot of them were anons back in the day. On isteve, a lady can post without dudes drooling all over her or calling her a soulless bleep bleep bleep. So this blog really has a fairly high female presence for an altright blog. There is neither insult nor pedestalization. It's refreshingly bland to comment as a female here.

    Yeppers. That would be me.

  157. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Tracy

    After many decades, I have concluded that women want utopia and are continually frustrated that they can’t have it. Men are more content with their circumstances. To Wit the 70% of divorces initiated by women. Also it seems that most women stop even thinking about sex after 40.
     
    The kind of life that most women want, deep down, is pretty much impossible. Women want a husband and kids, but they don't want to be stuck at home alone all day, with no adults to talk to, no one to socialize with. The old parish-centered neighborhoods have been destroyed, and women's social lives -- the set-up in which they could share chores with other women, babysit each other's kids and keep an eye out for them so they can play outside, get together and have coffee, get some time to breathe and pursue things of an intellectual or creative nature, etc. -- was destroyed with it (see this book about the destruction of the old neighborhoods).

    The nuclear family isn't the way it's supposed to be, but people moving all over the country for the sake of employment has destroyed the extended family. With those old neighborhoods and the extended family killed off, women are screwed. Of course a woman will be miserable stuck at home alone all day, with no time to breathe, with no adults to talk to for most of the day, and the only adult who does come around being the husband who gets home at 6 and just wants to chillax and watch TV. And who could blame him? He's been out, working all day. But who could blame her, either, for being miserable?

    Nothing will get fixed until extended family makes a comeback, and monocultural neighborhoods, which allowed women to trust their neighbors with their kids, and which gave them social lives, return. Without those in place, women can't be happy at home, raising kids (generally speaking).

    I think this is a really serious problem. Intelligence is mostly inherited from the mother, and a thinking man would want a wife with brains. But the women with brains are bored to DEATH dealing with kids ALL day, with no companionship and no time for a life of the mind, no time to get creative. So smart women don't have kids. And, so, we get what we got: an idiocracy.

    Your characterization of domestic life in the past is really inaccurate.

    Before modern appliances and packaged food and the like, housewives had to work essentially all day to maintain the household. There wasn’t any significant “chores sharing” because most women had enough of their own and their family’s chores to deal with. Kids roamed around outside by themselves and nobody really watched them.

    The only women with free time were wealthy women and they for the most part weren’t doing anything intellectual or creative. They were out shopping or having brunch with their friends.

    • Replies: @Tracy

    Before modern appliances and packaged food and the like, housewives had to work essentially all day to maintain the household. There wasn’t any significant “chores sharing” because most women had enough of their own and their family’s chores to deal with. Kids roamed around outside by themselves and nobody really watched them.
     
    They could let the kids run because they lived in culturally homogeneous places. And they did share chores or just did them together. You've likely seen pictures of women gathered at the river to do laundry, for ex. They weren't alone all day.

    Jack D. , see this article about sons' intelligence being inherited from mothers
    That women are out of the house working almost as much as men is part of my point. Women don't want to stay home alone all day with no one to interact with but kids. There's a reason radical feminism happened.
    , @TWS
    Except domestic help which most women could afford at one time. Now it is a ultra rich phenomenon except for day and lawn care but regular families could afford a housekeeper from time to time. We were dirt poor so we didn't have one but my inlaws had a housekeeper they were hardly rich just moderately well off. And I am dating myself.
  158. @Tracy

    After many decades, I have concluded that women want utopia and are continually frustrated that they can’t have it. Men are more content with their circumstances. To Wit the 70% of divorces initiated by women. Also it seems that most women stop even thinking about sex after 40.
     
    The kind of life that most women want, deep down, is pretty much impossible. Women want a husband and kids, but they don't want to be stuck at home alone all day, with no adults to talk to, no one to socialize with. The old parish-centered neighborhoods have been destroyed, and women's social lives -- the set-up in which they could share chores with other women, babysit each other's kids and keep an eye out for them so they can play outside, get together and have coffee, get some time to breathe and pursue things of an intellectual or creative nature, etc. -- was destroyed with it (see this book about the destruction of the old neighborhoods).

    The nuclear family isn't the way it's supposed to be, but people moving all over the country for the sake of employment has destroyed the extended family. With those old neighborhoods and the extended family killed off, women are screwed. Of course a woman will be miserable stuck at home alone all day, with no time to breathe, with no adults to talk to for most of the day, and the only adult who does come around being the husband who gets home at 6 and just wants to chillax and watch TV. And who could blame him? He's been out, working all day. But who could blame her, either, for being miserable?

    Nothing will get fixed until extended family makes a comeback, and monocultural neighborhoods, which allowed women to trust their neighbors with their kids, and which gave them social lives, return. Without those in place, women can't be happy at home, raising kids (generally speaking).

    I think this is a really serious problem. Intelligence is mostly inherited from the mother, and a thinking man would want a wife with brains. But the women with brains are bored to DEATH dealing with kids ALL day, with no companionship and no time for a life of the mind, no time to get creative. So smart women don't have kids. And, so, we get what we got: an idiocracy.

    >Intelligence is mostly inherited from the mother

    I don’t think that’s what the science says.

    Also this is not 1965 anymore. Women are out of the house working almost as much as men.

    • Replies: @Flip
    Yeah, I don't think that's right. My father's family is much smarter than my mother's and the paternal intelligence passed along quite well to the next generation of males.
  159. @Anonymous
    In this same line..
    After looking for long for a primary explanation for sex differences, it seems there is recently (from 1991, but most of the supporting evidence appearing in the last 5-10 years) a solid theory, which encompasses previous ones: the male genetic filter function. Steve Moxon does a tremendous job explaining it in his book, but i can try to summarize:

    The goal of a population is maximizing local longer-term reproduction (long-term reproduction=sustained reproduction, implies good quality offspring).
    Sexual reproduction has advantages (adaptivity to changing environments..), but two main bottlenecks: 1) large investment in growing/caring for the child, and 2) eliminating deleterious mutations from the population.
    Instead of loading two bottlenecks on all individuals (and have no sex-differentiation), reproduction becomes more efficient if each bottleneck is handled by separate types of individuals.
    Female and males have evolved to take care of these two bottlenecks, respectively.

    The female specialization is clear. The male one means that males must compete fiercely for a rank in a hierarchy. The position in this hierarchy assigns 'reproduction rights'. Most males left without reproducing, and a small minority at the top that reproduce widely.
    The females then choose the highest ranked men for mating. The non-mating, low-ranked males are 'filtering out' bad genes (typically deleterious mutations) by simply not reproducing.

    Two examples of this: sports, and duels. Sports happen to have a tournament structure, with enough fighting to establish a ranking, but not all pairs fight, which would be wasteful.
    Women like it when two men fight for her. This establishes which is the 'better' one, and she goes with the winner.
    The action the contenders carry out is important, it wouldn't work if the two contenders simply 'take a walk in the park together' for her, it must be some sort of competition/fight, as to help her determine their relative rank in the hierarchy.

    This simple theory seems to have a lot of evidence backing it up, and is a primary biological explanation.
    It also implies that, at the very top of the hierarchy, the competition among women, and for the top men, must be fierce, as there are many more women than top men.

    Human males also act as deleterious allele filters because they only have one copy of the X chromosome. This also implies that there should be a wider range for many characters in males than females (higher highs and lower lows).

  160. @Tracy

    After many decades, I have concluded that women want utopia and are continually frustrated that they can’t have it. Men are more content with their circumstances. To Wit the 70% of divorces initiated by women. Also it seems that most women stop even thinking about sex after 40.
     
    The kind of life that most women want, deep down, is pretty much impossible. Women want a husband and kids, but they don't want to be stuck at home alone all day, with no adults to talk to, no one to socialize with. The old parish-centered neighborhoods have been destroyed, and women's social lives -- the set-up in which they could share chores with other women, babysit each other's kids and keep an eye out for them so they can play outside, get together and have coffee, get some time to breathe and pursue things of an intellectual or creative nature, etc. -- was destroyed with it (see this book about the destruction of the old neighborhoods).

    The nuclear family isn't the way it's supposed to be, but people moving all over the country for the sake of employment has destroyed the extended family. With those old neighborhoods and the extended family killed off, women are screwed. Of course a woman will be miserable stuck at home alone all day, with no time to breathe, with no adults to talk to for most of the day, and the only adult who does come around being the husband who gets home at 6 and just wants to chillax and watch TV. And who could blame him? He's been out, working all day. But who could blame her, either, for being miserable?

    Nothing will get fixed until extended family makes a comeback, and monocultural neighborhoods, which allowed women to trust their neighbors with their kids, and which gave them social lives, return. Without those in place, women can't be happy at home, raising kids (generally speaking).

    I think this is a really serious problem. Intelligence is mostly inherited from the mother, and a thinking man would want a wife with brains. But the women with brains are bored to DEATH dealing with kids ALL day, with no companionship and no time for a life of the mind, no time to get creative. So smart women don't have kids. And, so, we get what we got: an idiocracy.

    It’s so refreshing to see someone sum up one of the major problems succinctly. I just make lots of blog posts about it as one of those housewives. It’s not really limited to boredom though, highly intelligent infants and toddlers in particular can be more exhausting and challenging physically and mentally.

    I was going to say more, but I’m too tired to get the thoughts to gel even in the space of a comment. The latest addition to the old fam wakes hourly at night and without our paid help (which is really the only thing you left out, how even American women used to have paid help and household services far more often, all the way into the 1980s actually, although huge subcultures lost their paid help access between the 40s and 60s) I really don’t know how we’d all make it through the day.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    " ... (which is really the only thing you left out, how even American women used to have paid help and household services far more often, all the way into the 1980s actually, although huge subcultures lost their paid help access between the 40s and 60s) I really don’t know how we’d all make it through the day."

    I don't think many of the mothers in the town I grew up in had paid help. My brother, sister and I are four years apart in age, and my mother had no paid help or nearby relatives to help her take care of us. Yet, in addition to taking care of our basic needs, she sewed a lot - clothes for herself, for us, and for our Barbie dolls (super cute outfits she made from leftover fabrics from dresses she made for herself and for us). She also cooked a lot, volunteered in our activities, painted and wall-papered the house with my father, and made curtains for all of the windows in our house. I don't really know how she did it, but we had a neighborhood full of kids with stay-at-home moms, so we were outside playing - and of my mother's hair - much of the time.
  161. @Brutusale
    A friend once emailed me a link to a site catering to guys who get off on pictures of women wearing puffy winter coats. The range of fetishes approaches infinity.

    What a great fetish to have. All you have to do is go out on the street in any Northern city between October and March and your fantasies are fulfilled.

    • Replies: @Brutusale
    Not my fetish. Mine tends more to the Japanese lesbian massage porn.

    For the poster who misses the 80s girls fingering themselves, I just watched a documentary called Aroused by Deborah Anderson, former leader singer of Yes Jon Anderson's daughter. There was a discussion of the women who get into porn going through a filtering process imposed by societal standards as to where the scarlet letter is earned, starting with a statistical group who'll pose naked to a smaller one that will do a masturbation scene, moving to girls consenting to girl on girl. The true narrowing starts at straight sex with a man, which is somehow seen as far more pornographic than a lesbian scene. From there, it's not a stretch to move to the gangbang scene with 8 black guys. Or maybe there is...

    The point is that in the 80s, there was much more of a jaundiced eye. and even if a woman would post nude or masturbate on camera, many didn't go any further. Today, with our degraded morals and where the grandmother next door is posting her trysts with random strangers on her webcam, there's no filter.

  162. With sex, it has been said, women need a reason – men need a place.

  163. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @The Practical Conservative
    It's so refreshing to see someone sum up one of the major problems succinctly. I just make lots of blog posts about it as one of those housewives. It's not really limited to boredom though, highly intelligent infants and toddlers in particular can be more exhausting and challenging physically and mentally.

    I was going to say more, but I'm too tired to get the thoughts to gel even in the space of a comment. The latest addition to the old fam wakes hourly at night and without our paid help (which is really the only thing you left out, how even American women used to have paid help and household services far more often, all the way into the 1980s actually, although huge subcultures lost their paid help access between the 40s and 60s) I really don't know how we'd all make it through the day.

    ” … (which is really the only thing you left out, how even American women used to have paid help and household services far more often, all the way into the 1980s actually, although huge subcultures lost their paid help access between the 40s and 60s) I really don’t know how we’d all make it through the day.”

    I don’t think many of the mothers in the town I grew up in had paid help. My brother, sister and I are four years apart in age, and my mother had no paid help or nearby relatives to help her take care of us. Yet, in addition to taking care of our basic needs, she sewed a lot – clothes for herself, for us, and for our Barbie dolls (super cute outfits she made from leftover fabrics from dresses she made for herself and for us). She also cooked a lot, volunteered in our activities, painted and wall-papered the house with my father, and made curtains for all of the windows in our house. I don’t really know how she did it, but we had a neighborhood full of kids with stay-at-home moms, so we were outside playing – and of my mother’s hair – much of the time.

    • Replies: @The Practical Conservative
    Paid help wasn't "full time maid or nanny for all", but it was much more common than it is now. As was what you mentioned, most of the women already being at home anyway and thus able to keep an eye out for each other's kids while doing chores. Domestic help was not as formalized, but it was still there.

    Grocery delivery even in small towns, mother's helpers, and door to door sales of many goods and services were also more common. The rise of suburbs in the 1940s was when many people lost access to domestic help, but it was still in wide use until a generation after the CRA. Americans really love the myth that nobody ever had domestic help except a handful of Southerners, no idea why. A lot of white Americans immigrated here and did domestic work in the early 20th century. And there was still a lot of occasional domestic work done all the way through the postwar era.

    My husband's mother grew up with a housekeeper out in the rural West and hired housecleaners herself when the kids started moving out of the house and thus weren't available for chores.

    It's easy to have someone come by a few hours a week . All those teenage babysitters and mother's helpers were watching someone's kids and not "rich people's".
  164. @Jack D
    >Intelligence is mostly inherited from the mother

    I don't think that's what the science says.

    Also this is not 1965 anymore. Women are out of the house working almost as much as men.

    Yeah, I don’t think that’s right. My father’s family is much smarter than my mother’s and the paternal intelligence passed along quite well to the next generation of males.

  165. What do women want? Well one thing they seem to like is grown men acting like children:
    Obama’s BuzzFeed Video: Selfie Sticks & Cookies | msnbc

    Someone could insist that video is not a product of our female-driven media culture but I wouldn’t believe you.

  166. Anonymous • Disclaimer says: • Website
    @Greenstalk

    Libertarianism is obviously not an iSteve political philosophy.
     
    Obviously, indeed. Libertarianism is a "blank slate" political philosophy which requires us to pretend that every single person in the world, male or female, young or old, rich or poor, Christian or Muslim, smart or stupid, is basically identical. Steve is a HBD blogger, perhaps the forerunner of all HBD bloggers, and HBD is all about examining the distinctive properties of different groups of people. So yeah, you don't see libertarianism get much traction here.

    I agree in general with your other point. In a better world the fact that womens sexual fantasies (a) exist and (b) are different from (and are somewhat complimentary with) mens sexual fantasies would not even be worth commenting on, because such a thing would be taken as given. But we live in a libertarian world which requires us all to pretend that all people are interchangeable units and that no meaningful differences exist between men and women. And in that sort of world it's always worth noticing when people as they actually are persist in behaving differently from the way the reigning ideology says they should.

    Libertarians do take into account human differences. In fact, that is one of the strengths of the philosophy. One person can live in the city, someone else on a farm. One person goes to church, another to a Wicca convention, another looks at puffy coat porn. We all do different things because we are different. HBD tells us that one size does not fit all, either with groups or individuals. No contradiction with liberty there.

    It’s also worth pointing out that a lot of our problems with immigration are caused by the welfare state. Cut that off, and you would have a lot fewer immigrants, and the ones left would be more productive.

    Yes, libertarians that are open-borders are idiots, especially since we do have a welfare state. But the main reason why our immigration is bad is because the immigrants vote for statist candidates.

    • Replies: @Greenstalk

    Libertarians do take into account human differences. In fact, that is one of the strengths of the philosophy. One person can live in the city, someone else on a farm.
     
    That is not "human differences", that is, in the language of libertarianism, "individual choices". It is presumed, from the libertarian standpoint, that all humans and all human choices are equally valid and worthy. And that in turn is what leads to the libertarian belief in open borders - they see people as interchangeable units and countries as irrational and unfair limits on the choice of humans to live where they wish.
  167. @TWS
    Many of the men who say ‘All women want to be dominated by a thug’ are simply regurgitating that which you memorized from other blogs.

    Sorry sweetness but that is observable reality. Try being a police officer, you'll see many, many women chasing the thug. Work in social services, you'll see the same. Woman after woman having thug babies (or not as the thug dictates). Work in corrections for prisons and visit a parolee's house on a Saturday morning to two or three women 'servicing' the thug (maybe for drugs maybe not).

    Modern women have no skills to deal with the thug. Real men used to be dominant enough to deal with the women in their lives. Now they are neutered by society and the state. For public consumption women might pretend to be all independent and free willed. In private those same women are reading fantasies about men who brutalize and dominate them, are texting thugs and sending nude pictures and meeting with them when their husbands aren't looking. They are finding the thug that society marginalized at one time.

    TWS, I reviewed many of your comments and thought they were pretty good BUT….

    …the problem I have with guys like you and many others here is your White male, sexual inadequacy driven agenda visa via “thugs”, mainly black males and lesser hispanics/muslim maales, and women, especially White women.

    Your personal sexual inadequacy, anatomical and social, clearly leads to crackpot views of women and what women really want.

    This is CLEARLY a White male tendency. Legendary stevosphere troll “Whiskey” is famous for it.

    The blogger named “Roissy in DC/Chateau Heartiste” is another.

    It’s embarrassing and bizarre but its everywhere. Why?

    Here’s your quote that expresses a particular White male fear – and maybe a secret desire as well –

    Sorry sweetness but that is observable reality. Try being a police officer, you’ll see many, many women chasing the thug. Work in social services, you’ll see the same. Woman after woman having thug babies (or not as the thug dictates). Work in corrections for prisons and visit a parolee’s house on a Saturday morning to two or three women ‘servicing’ the thug (maybe for drugs maybe not).

    Modern women have no skills to deal with the thug. Real men used to be dominant enough to deal with the women in their lives. Now they are neutered by society and the state. For public consumption women might pretend to be all independent and free willed. In private those same women are reading fantasies about men who brutalize and dominate them, are texting thugs and sending nude pictures and meeting with them when their husbands aren’t looking. They are finding the thug that society marginalized at one time.

    Will some one PLEASE psychoanalyze this White male sexual paranoia which seems to drive certain genres of pornography, “cuckold” porn seems to be their favorite!

    What is going on with you guys!

    This is your view of the REAL world of (White) women’s desires?

    • Replies: @TWS
    Never been into cuckold porn not an interest of mine. I am just relating what I've seen in the last fifty years. Since I am diametrically opposed to Whiskey I wonder why you think I have anything to do with him.

    You know I didn't say anything about the color of the women involved. It works just as well for minorities as well as for whites. Some communities have more thugs so women have more exposure but they're still supposed to parrot the party line. Grrl Power!!!. Which is foolish because women have very little agency but all the power.

    Every single thing I wrote about I actually saw first hand. Not once or twice but as a pattern.
  168. @Anonymous
    " ... (which is really the only thing you left out, how even American women used to have paid help and household services far more often, all the way into the 1980s actually, although huge subcultures lost their paid help access between the 40s and 60s) I really don’t know how we’d all make it through the day."

    I don't think many of the mothers in the town I grew up in had paid help. My brother, sister and I are four years apart in age, and my mother had no paid help or nearby relatives to help her take care of us. Yet, in addition to taking care of our basic needs, she sewed a lot - clothes for herself, for us, and for our Barbie dolls (super cute outfits she made from leftover fabrics from dresses she made for herself and for us). She also cooked a lot, volunteered in our activities, painted and wall-papered the house with my father, and made curtains for all of the windows in our house. I don't really know how she did it, but we had a neighborhood full of kids with stay-at-home moms, so we were outside playing - and of my mother's hair - much of the time.

    Paid help wasn’t “full time maid or nanny for all”, but it was much more common than it is now. As was what you mentioned, most of the women already being at home anyway and thus able to keep an eye out for each other’s kids while doing chores. Domestic help was not as formalized, but it was still there.

    Grocery delivery even in small towns, mother’s helpers, and door to door sales of many goods and services were also more common. The rise of suburbs in the 1940s was when many people lost access to domestic help, but it was still in wide use until a generation after the CRA. Americans really love the myth that nobody ever had domestic help except a handful of Southerners, no idea why. A lot of white Americans immigrated here and did domestic work in the early 20th century. And there was still a lot of occasional domestic work done all the way through the postwar era.

    My husband’s mother grew up with a housekeeper out in the rural West and hired housecleaners herself when the kids started moving out of the house and thus weren’t available for chores.

    It’s easy to have someone come by a few hours a week . All those teenage babysitters and mother’s helpers were watching someone’s kids and not “rich people’s”.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Domestic help was done primarily by poor black and immigrant women, not neighborhood women. And it generally didn't free up any time for the ordinary housewives who hired domestic help occasionally.
    , @Scotty G. Vito
    Hiring on a housekeeper (not necessarily live-in) used to be widely affordable around mid-century, if my viewing of film noir/hardboiled crime mysteries is at all probative. Whittaker Chambers wasn't exactly rolling in lucre and even he had a maid.
  169. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Tracy

    After many decades, I have concluded that women want utopia and are continually frustrated that they can’t have it. Men are more content with their circumstances. To Wit the 70% of divorces initiated by women. Also it seems that most women stop even thinking about sex after 40.
     
    The kind of life that most women want, deep down, is pretty much impossible. Women want a husband and kids, but they don't want to be stuck at home alone all day, with no adults to talk to, no one to socialize with. The old parish-centered neighborhoods have been destroyed, and women's social lives -- the set-up in which they could share chores with other women, babysit each other's kids and keep an eye out for them so they can play outside, get together and have coffee, get some time to breathe and pursue things of an intellectual or creative nature, etc. -- was destroyed with it (see this book about the destruction of the old neighborhoods).

    The nuclear family isn't the way it's supposed to be, but people moving all over the country for the sake of employment has destroyed the extended family. With those old neighborhoods and the extended family killed off, women are screwed. Of course a woman will be miserable stuck at home alone all day, with no time to breathe, with no adults to talk to for most of the day, and the only adult who does come around being the husband who gets home at 6 and just wants to chillax and watch TV. And who could blame him? He's been out, working all day. But who could blame her, either, for being miserable?

    Nothing will get fixed until extended family makes a comeback, and monocultural neighborhoods, which allowed women to trust their neighbors with their kids, and which gave them social lives, return. Without those in place, women can't be happy at home, raising kids (generally speaking).

    I think this is a really serious problem. Intelligence is mostly inherited from the mother, and a thinking man would want a wife with brains. But the women with brains are bored to DEATH dealing with kids ALL day, with no companionship and no time for a life of the mind, no time to get creative. So smart women don't have kids. And, so, we get what we got: an idiocracy.

    This sounds like a contemporary update to the noble savage myth, with the tribe and idyllic jungle replaced with a prewar Polish-Catholic neighborhood in Chicago. Apparently these housewives weren’t working all day looking after 6 kids and doing chores without any appliances while their husbands were losing their fingers at the meatpacking plant. They had an army of neighborhood help doing all their chores for them

    • Replies: @The Practical Conservative
    No, they were mostly doing their chores on the same days of the week so that specialization and scaling could take place. Everyone washed on Monday, beat the rugs on Thursday, etc. And older women would watch the kids instead of doing the backbreaking stuff.

    Also, a lot of women contracepted/limited family size. A surprising number of white women only had one or two kids going back long before diversity or modern conveniences. The number having 6+ has often been small among American whites, going back at least as far as Reconstrution.

    It's a continuum, the household help/neighbors helping/communal chore thing. It was never a binary, and had a lot of regional and ethnic variation over the decades. That is certainly true, but it's not "noble savage" that women shared domestic work when they were all at home to do it. It's just life.
  170. @Anonymous
    This sounds like a contemporary update to the noble savage myth, with the tribe and idyllic jungle replaced with a prewar Polish-Catholic neighborhood in Chicago. Apparently these housewives weren't working all day looking after 6 kids and doing chores without any appliances while their husbands were losing their fingers at the meatpacking plant. They had an army of neighborhood help doing all their chores for them

    No, they were mostly doing their chores on the same days of the week so that specialization and scaling could take place. Everyone washed on Monday, beat the rugs on Thursday, etc. And older women would watch the kids instead of doing the backbreaking stuff.

    Also, a lot of women contracepted/limited family size. A surprising number of white women only had one or two kids going back long before diversity or modern conveniences. The number having 6+ has often been small among American whites, going back at least as far as Reconstrution.

    It’s a continuum, the household help/neighbors helping/communal chore thing. It was never a binary, and had a lot of regional and ethnic variation over the decades. That is certainly true, but it’s not “noble savage” that women shared domestic work when they were all at home to do it. It’s just life.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    The point is that housewives had larger families back then, and there were fewer labor saving devices. Your notion that housewives generally had less work to do because of freely available neighborhood female labor is mistaken.
  171. A few commentators who’ve seen or at least decided to comment on the newest Wachowski Siblings flop — like much of the public I refrained — have noted the centrality of the Cinderella myth to the plot, such as it is. Yet this is the only non-nonsensical element of the entire movie and even so they managed to botch it up.

    The part was likely written for Natalie “Emotional Range” Portman btw.

  172. @The Practical Conservative
    Paid help wasn't "full time maid or nanny for all", but it was much more common than it is now. As was what you mentioned, most of the women already being at home anyway and thus able to keep an eye out for each other's kids while doing chores. Domestic help was not as formalized, but it was still there.

    Grocery delivery even in small towns, mother's helpers, and door to door sales of many goods and services were also more common. The rise of suburbs in the 1940s was when many people lost access to domestic help, but it was still in wide use until a generation after the CRA. Americans really love the myth that nobody ever had domestic help except a handful of Southerners, no idea why. A lot of white Americans immigrated here and did domestic work in the early 20th century. And there was still a lot of occasional domestic work done all the way through the postwar era.

    My husband's mother grew up with a housekeeper out in the rural West and hired housecleaners herself when the kids started moving out of the house and thus weren't available for chores.

    It's easy to have someone come by a few hours a week . All those teenage babysitters and mother's helpers were watching someone's kids and not "rich people's".

    Domestic help was done primarily by poor black and immigrant women, not neighborhood women. And it generally didn’t free up any time for the ordinary housewives who hired domestic help occasionally.

  173. @The Practical Conservative
    No, they were mostly doing their chores on the same days of the week so that specialization and scaling could take place. Everyone washed on Monday, beat the rugs on Thursday, etc. And older women would watch the kids instead of doing the backbreaking stuff.

    Also, a lot of women contracepted/limited family size. A surprising number of white women only had one or two kids going back long before diversity or modern conveniences. The number having 6+ has often been small among American whites, going back at least as far as Reconstrution.

    It's a continuum, the household help/neighbors helping/communal chore thing. It was never a binary, and had a lot of regional and ethnic variation over the decades. That is certainly true, but it's not "noble savage" that women shared domestic work when they were all at home to do it. It's just life.

    The point is that housewives had larger families back then, and there were fewer labor saving devices. Your notion that housewives generally had less work to do because of freely available neighborhood female labor is mistaken.

    • Replies: @Tracy

    The point is that housewives had larger families back then, and there were fewer labor saving devices. Your notion that housewives generally had less work to do because of freely available neighborhood female labor is mistaken.
     
    Who said anything about "less work"? Before appliances, there was more work. A lot more work. The point being made is that women did that work with other women. What Practical Conservative said about women doing the same work on the same days is absolutely true. The theme of the "labor of the days" was all over tea towels and in books, etc. Women weren't alone all day. Their kids could go outside and get out of their hair because they lived in places that were monocultural, where their neighbors had the same morals and "values" as they did and could be trusted to keep an eye on things.

    IOW, none of what I've said has to do with quantity of work. It has to do with women's need for a social life and for breaks from kids in order to do things that satisfy the intellect or the creative drive - those last two likely being relatively moot until the major appliances were invented. But since we're talking about modern women, the latter stuff isn't moot after all.
  174. @TWS
    Many of the men who say ‘All women want to be dominated by a thug’ are simply regurgitating that which you memorized from other blogs.

    Sorry sweetness but that is observable reality. Try being a police officer, you'll see many, many women chasing the thug. Work in social services, you'll see the same. Woman after woman having thug babies (or not as the thug dictates). Work in corrections for prisons and visit a parolee's house on a Saturday morning to two or three women 'servicing' the thug (maybe for drugs maybe not).

    Modern women have no skills to deal with the thug. Real men used to be dominant enough to deal with the women in their lives. Now they are neutered by society and the state. For public consumption women might pretend to be all independent and free willed. In private those same women are reading fantasies about men who brutalize and dominate them, are texting thugs and sending nude pictures and meeting with them when their husbands aren't looking. They are finding the thug that society marginalized at one time.

    I’ve seen what you’re talking about. But really, those women are mostly sub-par in intelligence, physical appearance and personal psychology. Nobody reading this blog would even notice them or look twice. Water finds it’s own level.

  175. Jupiter Ascending is like the movie equivalent of Goldieblox, grabbing 12-year-old girls by their lapels(?) and ordering them to like it. Whereas 50 Shades of Grey is aimed at the pushing-thirty part-time pharmacy assistant demographic, who once owned Bratz dolls and today wear branded sweatpants everywhere they go, but are too young to remember the sharper-edged coming-of-age films of the 80s (John Hughes, Dirty Dancing, anything w/ Diane Franklin); their vernacular stems from the aesthetic hypermaterialism of the post-“Clueless” chick flicks. Of course 50 Shades Inc. also makes a ton of money off the other end, i.e. middle-aged-to-AARP straight females now so drastically out of touch with Young People of Today that they’ll glom onto this multimedia bonanza in lemming formation.

  176. @The Practical Conservative
    Paid help wasn't "full time maid or nanny for all", but it was much more common than it is now. As was what you mentioned, most of the women already being at home anyway and thus able to keep an eye out for each other's kids while doing chores. Domestic help was not as formalized, but it was still there.

    Grocery delivery even in small towns, mother's helpers, and door to door sales of many goods and services were also more common. The rise of suburbs in the 1940s was when many people lost access to domestic help, but it was still in wide use until a generation after the CRA. Americans really love the myth that nobody ever had domestic help except a handful of Southerners, no idea why. A lot of white Americans immigrated here and did domestic work in the early 20th century. And there was still a lot of occasional domestic work done all the way through the postwar era.

    My husband's mother grew up with a housekeeper out in the rural West and hired housecleaners herself when the kids started moving out of the house and thus weren't available for chores.

    It's easy to have someone come by a few hours a week . All those teenage babysitters and mother's helpers were watching someone's kids and not "rich people's".

    Hiring on a housekeeper (not necessarily live-in) used to be widely affordable around mid-century, if my viewing of film noir/hardboiled crime mysteries is at all probative. Whittaker Chambers wasn’t exactly rolling in lucre and even he had a maid.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Maids became a lot less affordable around 1941 and stayed that way for several decades.
    , @Anonymous
    Yes, the young Irish maid was a common figure in older books and movies in the UK and the US.
  177. @Scotty G. Vito
    Hiring on a housekeeper (not necessarily live-in) used to be widely affordable around mid-century, if my viewing of film noir/hardboiled crime mysteries is at all probative. Whittaker Chambers wasn't exactly rolling in lucre and even he had a maid.

    Maids became a lot less affordable around 1941 and stayed that way for several decades.

  178. @Scotty G. Vito
    Hiring on a housekeeper (not necessarily live-in) used to be widely affordable around mid-century, if my viewing of film noir/hardboiled crime mysteries is at all probative. Whittaker Chambers wasn't exactly rolling in lucre and even he had a maid.

    Yes, the young Irish maid was a common figure in older books and movies in the UK and the US.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Heinlein's 1957 novel "The Door Into Summer" is about an engineer inventing a household robot to take on the housecleaning work that poor immigrant girls used to do.
  179. @Anonymous
    Yes, the young Irish maid was a common figure in older books and movies in the UK and the US.

    Heinlein’s 1957 novel “The Door Into Summer” is about an engineer inventing a household robot to take on the housecleaning work that poor immigrant girls used to do.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Right, it was the supply of poor immigrant women and the fact that female labor was very cheap because women couldn't get the same jobs as men and clerical, secretarial work for women on a large scale wasn't available yet that made domestic help very affordable.

    After the war, there was much less immigration, and clerical work became more available for women, making female labor more expensive.
  180. To my mind the most illuminating “human nature” angle out of the 50 Shades of Grey razzmatazz is that the woman director (blond, British, married to a hunky actor half her age) apparently couldn’t stand having to deal with the woman author (dowdy, British, also now insanely wealthy), and so the former won’t be returning for her sequel payday. Tsk tsk, why must these two contribute to a harmful workplace climate that stamps down on the number of high-powered female managers working in the entertainment industry?

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Do you have a link for that hilarious story I could post?
  181. @Scotty G. Vito
    To my mind the most illuminating "human nature" angle out of the 50 Shades of Grey razzmatazz is that the woman director (blond, British, married to a hunky actor half her age) apparently couldn't stand having to deal with the woman author (dowdy, British, also now insanely wealthy), and so the former won't be returning for her sequel payday. Tsk tsk, why must these two contribute to a harmful workplace climate that stamps down on the number of high-powered female managers working in the entertainment industry?

    Do you have a link for that hilarious story I could post?

    • Replies: @CJ
    I don't know what data Data Analysis was referring to, but this was in the Hollywood Reporter, which I read so you don't have to:

    For director Sam Taylor-Johnson, the making of Fifty Shades of Grey seems to have been like a protracted visit to the Red Room of Pain as she battled constant conflict with 51-year-old author EL James. With the first installment of a hoped-for trilogy set to open at $60 million or more over Valentine's Day weekend, insiders say the director — to whom stars Dakota Johnson and Jamie Dornan are said to be loyal — likely will not return for a rematch. While Johnson and Dornan are booked for a three-peat, Taylor-Johnson, 47, only signed on for one film. So far, sources say there have been no discussions on her returning.

  182. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Steve Sailer
    Heinlein's 1957 novel "The Door Into Summer" is about an engineer inventing a household robot to take on the housecleaning work that poor immigrant girls used to do.

    Right, it was the supply of poor immigrant women and the fact that female labor was very cheap because women couldn’t get the same jobs as men and clerical, secretarial work for women on a large scale wasn’t available yet that made domestic help very affordable.

    After the war, there was much less immigration, and clerical work became more available for women, making female labor more expensive.

    • Replies: @The Practical Conservative
    Well, yes and no. After the war, there were a lot of single girls who'd followed men to some of the towns that were built out for the war effort, and many of them ended up doing domestic work/helping housewives. This was fairly common in the Pacific Northwest, before the hippies came through.

    The 1940s were the beginning of the real push towards nuclear families and general isolation for housewives, but it took a long time for the back and forth of increasing workload despite labor-saving devices and feminist pushes to have women abandon the drudgery at home for shiny jobs in offices to really come to a final head. Domestic work was still fairly cheap in that it was exempted from many labor and wage laws well into the 1960s.

    Like I said, it was socially acceptable in the 1940s, 1950s, 1960s and 1970s in the rural Mountain West (to name just one region) to have household help on an occasional or part-time basis. And those people weren't wealthy ranchers, just average exurban and semi-rural folks.

    So there was a steady increase in the cost of female labor combined with a decreasing social approval as immigrant populations with no history of hiring servants got wealthier and just did without. But it took decades to really drift into obsolescence and was still a major element among many different subcultures of housewife all through the 50s and 60s, with a last gasp in the 70s and early 80s.
  183. @Anonymous
    Right, it was the supply of poor immigrant women and the fact that female labor was very cheap because women couldn't get the same jobs as men and clerical, secretarial work for women on a large scale wasn't available yet that made domestic help very affordable.

    After the war, there was much less immigration, and clerical work became more available for women, making female labor more expensive.

    Well, yes and no. After the war, there were a lot of single girls who’d followed men to some of the towns that were built out for the war effort, and many of them ended up doing domestic work/helping housewives. This was fairly common in the Pacific Northwest, before the hippies came through.

    The 1940s were the beginning of the real push towards nuclear families and general isolation for housewives, but it took a long time for the back and forth of increasing workload despite labor-saving devices and feminist pushes to have women abandon the drudgery at home for shiny jobs in offices to really come to a final head. Domestic work was still fairly cheap in that it was exempted from many labor and wage laws well into the 1960s.

    Like I said, it was socially acceptable in the 1940s, 1950s, 1960s and 1970s in the rural Mountain West (to name just one region) to have household help on an occasional or part-time basis. And those people weren’t wealthy ranchers, just average exurban and semi-rural folks.

    So there was a steady increase in the cost of female labor combined with a decreasing social approval as immigrant populations with no history of hiring servants got wealthier and just did without. But it took decades to really drift into obsolescence and was still a major element among many different subcultures of housewife all through the 50s and 60s, with a last gasp in the 70s and early 80s.

  184. @Steve Sailer
    Do you have a link for that hilarious story I could post?

    I don’t know what data Data Analysis was referring to, but this was in the Hollywood Reporter, which I read so you don’t have to:

    For director Sam Taylor-Johnson, the making of Fifty Shades of Grey seems to have been like a protracted visit to the Red Room of Pain as she battled constant conflict with 51-year-old author EL James. With the first installment of a hoped-for trilogy set to open at $60 million or more over Valentine’s Day weekend, insiders say the director — to whom stars Dakota Johnson and Jamie Dornan are said to be loyal — likely will not return for a rematch. While Johnson and Dornan are booked for a three-peat, Taylor-Johnson, 47, only signed on for one film. So far, sources say there have been no discussions on her returning.

  185. Well, over the years, at least a few women have clearly wanted me, ha ha. Or tolerated me for whatever it was my presence added to their lives. Never been dumped hard, keeping my fingers crossed there, nor really done the same, still on friendly, occasional update terms with enough old flames that it is a pattern.

    Disclaimer: there is this whole game thing nowadays, whose devotees seem, for the most part, kind of pathetic. But so do people at their induction into, say, AA, and it churns out some success cases. And while game theorists mostly spew out simplistic, formulaic nonsense, some of it seems to hint at basic concepts with which my experiences coincides.

    And beyond that, the question itself, what do women want, is also simplistic. What do men want? what do you want? That is not easily answered by an individual, much less a class comprising billions, in a sentence, paragraph, or even a book or lifetime or the collected wisdom of the ages.

    End disclaimer…

    (Some, a few, scattered examples of, …) women want, at some level in which they (and men) don’t readily cogitate, in terms of a guy as opposed to a vacuum cleaner, is for you to forget Valentine’s day, to not display servile neediness, to go about the business of being a man, following your productive drives and ambitions and achieving them often enough to demonstrate competence/effectiveness, and once in a while, very very infrequently and only after much struggle and striving on their part, let it slip that you think they are special. And at best, this is done in a way that makes them feel that they are the only one who was able to get that spark from you, because they really are special, irresistible, and furthermore, they are the only one that can perceive this because by all outward appearances you are someone no one would ever dream has such a side. Their singular ability to uniquely, and very infrequently, elicit this from you is what makes them special.

    Again, this has to be very infrequently, ideally unexpected, serendipitous, fleeting, a rare respite from your daily grind as Rambo, Shady Gray-50, whatever.

    Really a huge generalization that is so broad as to be nearly meaningless, given we are seeking for a rule that applies to 3 billion or individuals, and isn’t the thing women want, but a thing this writer has found, in retrospect rather than by predesign, in his anecdotal experiences with women, the number of which, compared to the number of candidates (~3 billion) also makes it meaningless. And we aren’t even getting into selection bias…

    But we are all about narrative-based pseudo-science here, no?

  186. @Cagey Beast
    I don't think so. Ironically women never seem to have anything interesting to say about what they want when it comes to men. They want everything and its opposite and they want both without having to ask for it because that ruins the whole thing and makes them not want it anymore. Women are not very interesting on the topic of women.

    I want to be ravished by a man. I am a woman, and I like rough sex. I think many women are tired of feminized males. I don’t read or need 50 shades of grey, but yes, I want a man to be masculine and tall and slim and hot.

  187. @TWS
    Many of the men who say ‘All women want to be dominated by a thug’ are simply regurgitating that which you memorized from other blogs.

    Sorry sweetness but that is observable reality. Try being a police officer, you'll see many, many women chasing the thug. Work in social services, you'll see the same. Woman after woman having thug babies (or not as the thug dictates). Work in corrections for prisons and visit a parolee's house on a Saturday morning to two or three women 'servicing' the thug (maybe for drugs maybe not).

    Modern women have no skills to deal with the thug. Real men used to be dominant enough to deal with the women in their lives. Now they are neutered by society and the state. For public consumption women might pretend to be all independent and free willed. In private those same women are reading fantasies about men who brutalize and dominate them, are texting thugs and sending nude pictures and meeting with them when their husbands aren't looking. They are finding the thug that society marginalized at one time.

    Some women want to be dominated/get rough sex from a MASCULINE MAN…a hot guy… whether that’s a thug or an alpha in a suit or a hippie/surfer/rock musician type with long hair. Yes, some of us lust after masculine men. Masculinity isn’t all about muscles either or body per se… personality plays a role too.

    • Replies: @TWS
    Exactly right except I've seen very attractive high SES women go off the deep end for drug dealers, bar thugs and such. Early eighties I watched three pretty suburban housewives physically assault each other over a drug dealing greasy thug.

    He wound up doing the whole sexual dominance thing first then abused her until he broke her back throwing her from a window then murdered her after she recovered. I've seen female lawyers who declared that Letourneau's victim had too much game and that she couldn't resist his eleven year old manly charms. I've seen too much to let me think our chimp ancestors still aren't running the show behind the scenes.
  188. @Anonymous
    Your characterization of domestic life in the past is really inaccurate.

    Before modern appliances and packaged food and the like, housewives had to work essentially all day to maintain the household. There wasn't any significant "chores sharing" because most women had enough of their own and their family's chores to deal with. Kids roamed around outside by themselves and nobody really watched them.

    The only women with free time were wealthy women and they for the most part weren't doing anything intellectual or creative. They were out shopping or having brunch with their friends.

    Before modern appliances and packaged food and the like, housewives had to work essentially all day to maintain the household. There wasn’t any significant “chores sharing” because most women had enough of their own and their family’s chores to deal with. Kids roamed around outside by themselves and nobody really watched them.

    They could let the kids run because they lived in culturally homogeneous places. And they did share chores or just did them together. You’ve likely seen pictures of women gathered at the river to do laundry, for ex. They weren’t alone all day.

    Jack D. , see this article about sons’ intelligence being inherited from mothers
    That women are out of the house working almost as much as men is part of my point. Women don’t want to stay home alone all day with no one to interact with but kids. There’s a reason radical feminism happened.

  189. @Anonymous
    The point is that housewives had larger families back then, and there were fewer labor saving devices. Your notion that housewives generally had less work to do because of freely available neighborhood female labor is mistaken.

    The point is that housewives had larger families back then, and there were fewer labor saving devices. Your notion that housewives generally had less work to do because of freely available neighborhood female labor is mistaken.

    Who said anything about “less work”? Before appliances, there was more work. A lot more work. The point being made is that women did that work with other women. What Practical Conservative said about women doing the same work on the same days is absolutely true. The theme of the “labor of the days” was all over tea towels and in books, etc. Women weren’t alone all day. Their kids could go outside and get out of their hair because they lived in places that were monocultural, where their neighbors had the same morals and “values” as they did and could be trusted to keep an eye on things.

    IOW, none of what I’ve said has to do with quantity of work. It has to do with women’s need for a social life and for breaks from kids in order to do things that satisfy the intellect or the creative drive – those last two likely being relatively moot until the major appliances were invented. But since we’re talking about modern women, the latter stuff isn’t moot after all.

    • Replies: @PatrickH
    Scholars believe (or used to) that the extended family was never as much a part of most people's experience in north-western Europe as it was in southern or eastern Europe. The mobility and autonomy that the former prized was difficult to combine with a rooted life in which relatives had a heavy weight of influence in deciding whom you might marry. This was particularly true of Britain, but I think it was also true to a lesser degree in northern France and Germany.

    As for the United States, was it not a very mobile society from its early days, and perhaps even before the American Revolution? Young people moved far away from their families as land started to fill up and got more expensive or harder to farm. I don't think that the colonies and ex-colonies of North America had much knowledge of extended families until immigrants from southern and eastern Europe began to arrive in the late 19th century.

    At any rate, that's what I learned in my history studies as a graduate student, some years ago. It may be that further research has led them to different conclusions. It's a demanding and slippery area of study, heavily dependent on the completely random survival of town and parish records.
  190. @Bill P

    As for teh kink: men are more deviant. (I’ve done very, very mild BDSM–any more than that is risking legal trouble.) In every way from serial killing to Nobel prizes.
     
    Maybe at the tail ends, but in aggregate men and women are pretty much equal offenders in this regard. You really split my sides with your German fetish, by the way.

    The "deviancy" is just an expression of human sexuality that is common to both men and women, and by acting it out you're ritualizing that side of us (which is normal human behavior). there's a hunter prey relationship on both sides, which is very fascinating. I think the Taoists capture it best with their philosophy.

    Best not to deny it. Christians are probably the worst offenders in this regard, although otherwise I hold Christianity to be a very functional and humane religion without which the modern age couldn't have been possible.

    Still, I'm starting to think it needs an update, and no, not Mormonism (although Richard Francis Burton - first translator of the Kama Sutra - had high hopes for the Mormon faith).

    Maybe at the tail ends, but in aggregate men and women are pretty much equal offenders in this regard. You really split my sides with your German fetish, by the way.

    The “deviancy” is just an expression of human sexuality that is common to both men and women

    By definition, the tail ends are more deviant than the center, so more men at the tail ends would tend to make men more deviant.

  191. … Aspy touch that makes you.

    “Aspy touch” : translation : You don’t agree with me, so I don’t like you.

  192. @Jack D
    What a great fetish to have. All you have to do is go out on the street in any Northern city between October and March and your fantasies are fulfilled.

    Not my fetish. Mine tends more to the Japanese lesbian massage porn.

    For the poster who misses the 80s girls fingering themselves, I just watched a documentary called Aroused by Deborah Anderson, former leader singer of Yes Jon Anderson’s daughter. There was a discussion of the women who get into porn going through a filtering process imposed by societal standards as to where the scarlet letter is earned, starting with a statistical group who’ll pose naked to a smaller one that will do a masturbation scene, moving to girls consenting to girl on girl. The true narrowing starts at straight sex with a man, which is somehow seen as far more pornographic than a lesbian scene. From there, it’s not a stretch to move to the gangbang scene with 8 black guys. Or maybe there is…

    The point is that in the 80s, there was much more of a jaundiced eye. and even if a woman would post nude or masturbate on camera, many didn’t go any further. Today, with our degraded morals and where the grandmother next door is posting her trysts with random strangers on her webcam, there’s no filter.

  193. @Melendwyr
    Let's be fair - romance novels are usually pornography, and pornography reflects what gets the target audience hot and bothered. It's not a great guide to the totality of that audience's desires, which are usually a bit more complex than what pushes their buttons; just as what men want from a sexual or romantic relationship is generally more complex than breasts and buttocks, although those visual signals tend to dominate characteristically-visual male porn, 'what women want' isn't simple or invariant across time.

    Women want a lot of things, some mutually incompatible. So it goes.

    This is perhaps the most sensible comment I’ve seen on the subject of sexual fantasy v real life desires.

  194. @Rifleman
    TWS, I reviewed many of your comments and thought they were pretty good BUT....

    ...the problem I have with guys like you and many others here is your White male, sexual inadequacy driven agenda visa via "thugs", mainly black males and lesser hispanics/muslim maales, and women, especially White women.

    Your personal sexual inadequacy, anatomical and social, clearly leads to crackpot views of women and what women really want.

    This is CLEARLY a White male tendency. Legendary stevosphere troll "Whiskey" is famous for it.

    The blogger named "Roissy in DC/Chateau Heartiste" is another.

    It's embarrassing and bizarre but its everywhere. Why?

    Here's your quote that expresses a particular White male fear - and maybe a secret desire as well -

    Sorry sweetness but that is observable reality. Try being a police officer, you’ll see many, many women chasing the thug. Work in social services, you’ll see the same. Woman after woman having thug babies (or not as the thug dictates). Work in corrections for prisons and visit a parolee’s house on a Saturday morning to two or three women ‘servicing’ the thug (maybe for drugs maybe not).

    Modern women have no skills to deal with the thug. Real men used to be dominant enough to deal with the women in their lives. Now they are neutered by society and the state. For public consumption women might pretend to be all independent and free willed. In private those same women are reading fantasies about men who brutalize and dominate them, are texting thugs and sending nude pictures and meeting with them when their husbands aren’t looking. They are finding the thug that society marginalized at one time.
     
    Will some one PLEASE psychoanalyze this White male sexual paranoia which seems to drive certain genres of pornography, "cuckold" porn seems to be their favorite!

    What is going on with you guys!

    This is your view of the REAL world of (White) women's desires?

    Never been into cuckold porn not an interest of mine. I am just relating what I’ve seen in the last fifty years. Since I am diametrically opposed to Whiskey I wonder why you think I have anything to do with him.

    You know I didn’t say anything about the color of the women involved. It works just as well for minorities as well as for whites. Some communities have more thugs so women have more exposure but they’re still supposed to parrot the party line. Grrl Power!!!. Which is foolish because women have very little agency but all the power.

    Every single thing I wrote about I actually saw first hand. Not once or twice but as a pattern.

  195. @woman
    Some women want to be dominated/get rough sex from a MASCULINE MAN...a hot guy... whether that's a thug or an alpha in a suit or a hippie/surfer/rock musician type with long hair. Yes, some of us lust after masculine men. Masculinity isn't all about muscles either or body per se... personality plays a role too.

    Exactly right except I’ve seen very attractive high SES women go off the deep end for drug dealers, bar thugs and such. Early eighties I watched three pretty suburban housewives physically assault each other over a drug dealing greasy thug.

    He wound up doing the whole sexual dominance thing first then abused her until he broke her back throwing her from a window then murdered her after she recovered. I’ve seen female lawyers who declared that Letourneau’s victim had too much game and that she couldn’t resist his eleven year old manly charms. I’ve seen too much to let me think our chimp ancestors still aren’t running the show behind the scenes.

  196. @Citizen of a Silly Country
    Regarding female solidarity, how many times have iSteve fans heard these lines from women, particularly easier to get along with women:

    1. Most of my friends have always been guys. I just can't deal with the drama of most women.

    2. I prefer to work with men than women. They're easier and just get the job done.

    3. I usually hate working for a woman boss.

    I'd suspect quite a bit. I know that I've heard those lines repeatedly since getting into the work world. It surprised me at first. I'd never heard anything like that from a guy. No straight guy says that most of his friends over the years have been women, and they sure as hell don't prefer to work with or under a woman - although many of us have had a good female boss or co-worker at some point.

    Again, I'd also emphasize that I hear these comments much more often from women that I respect and enjoy being around. I don't seem to hear those lines from more flighty women.

    “No straight guy says that most of his friends over the years have been women, and they sure as hell don’t prefer to work with or under a woman.”

    I’m a man with normal sexuality and most of my friends over the years have been women, and I sure as hell don’t prefer to work with or under a woman. I’m Gen-X, and most men of my generation are obsessed with vidjagames and sports, so it’s almost impossible for me to connect with men because I have zero interest in the former and only passing interest in the latter. In fact, the only man friends I’ve had in the past decade have been much older than me, because they aren’t obsessed with vidjagames and worshiping at the church of africanus footballus all weekend long.

    • Replies: @notsaying
    Younger GenXer here.
    I'm a straight man and for most of my life I've had women friends. Sometimes my small circle of friends included more women than men. I'm still good friends with a couple of women, but at this point in my life I'm consciously not trying to gain more women friends.

    I went on a date with this really smart math girl the other day.
    I didn't find her attractive, though, so I never called her back. A few years ago, I'd have sincerely tried to keep her as a friend, for real. Now ? I have my 2 or 3 female friends that I'm loyal to and that's enough for me.

    I certainly don't have a preference for female bosses or colleagues but so far I've been able to work with them fine. I'm quite flexible.
    , @Truth
    " most of my friends over the years have been women...because they aren’t obsessed with vidjagames and worshiping at the church of africanus footballus all weekend long."

    I agree with you there Bro...sewing circles and afternoon teas are much more...exhilarating.
  197. @Anonymous
    Your characterization of domestic life in the past is really inaccurate.

    Before modern appliances and packaged food and the like, housewives had to work essentially all day to maintain the household. There wasn't any significant "chores sharing" because most women had enough of their own and their family's chores to deal with. Kids roamed around outside by themselves and nobody really watched them.

    The only women with free time were wealthy women and they for the most part weren't doing anything intellectual or creative. They were out shopping or having brunch with their friends.

    Except domestic help which most women could afford at one time. Now it is a ultra rich phenomenon except for day and lawn care but regular families could afford a housekeeper from time to time. We were dirt poor so we didn’t have one but my inlaws had a housekeeper they were hardly rich just moderately well off. And I am dating myself.

  198. @Ed
    This is why I think HRC's candidacy will eventually implode. The first female president thing won't resonate much with the ladies as the first black president thing does with Blacks.

    Add to that she is older and won't inspire much hysteria among the young, who have little to no memory of the Clinton years. She'll just be some old lady their grandma likes.

    HRC is the Geraldine Ferraro of today. Nobody voted for her. None of the groups she identified with voted for her in the majority. Not women, not Catholics, not working women, even feminists stayed away. I think if she had an identical twin sister she would have voted Reagan/Bush.

    HRC will be the same.

  199. @Tracy

    The point is that housewives had larger families back then, and there were fewer labor saving devices. Your notion that housewives generally had less work to do because of freely available neighborhood female labor is mistaken.
     
    Who said anything about "less work"? Before appliances, there was more work. A lot more work. The point being made is that women did that work with other women. What Practical Conservative said about women doing the same work on the same days is absolutely true. The theme of the "labor of the days" was all over tea towels and in books, etc. Women weren't alone all day. Their kids could go outside and get out of their hair because they lived in places that were monocultural, where their neighbors had the same morals and "values" as they did and could be trusted to keep an eye on things.

    IOW, none of what I've said has to do with quantity of work. It has to do with women's need for a social life and for breaks from kids in order to do things that satisfy the intellect or the creative drive - those last two likely being relatively moot until the major appliances were invented. But since we're talking about modern women, the latter stuff isn't moot after all.

    Scholars believe (or used to) that the extended family was never as much a part of most people’s experience in north-western Europe as it was in southern or eastern Europe. The mobility and autonomy that the former prized was difficult to combine with a rooted life in which relatives had a heavy weight of influence in deciding whom you might marry. This was particularly true of Britain, but I think it was also true to a lesser degree in northern France and Germany.

    As for the United States, was it not a very mobile society from its early days, and perhaps even before the American Revolution? Young people moved far away from their families as land started to fill up and got more expensive or harder to farm. I don’t think that the colonies and ex-colonies of North America had much knowledge of extended families until immigrants from southern and eastern Europe began to arrive in the late 19th century.

    At any rate, that’s what I learned in my history studies as a graduate student, some years ago. It may be that further research has led them to different conclusions. It’s a demanding and slippery area of study, heavily dependent on the completely random survival of town and parish records.

  200. @Anonymous
    Libertarians do take into account human differences. In fact, that is one of the strengths of the philosophy. One person can live in the city, someone else on a farm. One person goes to church, another to a Wicca convention, another looks at puffy coat porn. We all do different things because we are different. HBD tells us that one size does not fit all, either with groups or individuals. No contradiction with liberty there.

    It's also worth pointing out that a lot of our problems with immigration are caused by the welfare state. Cut that off, and you would have a lot fewer immigrants, and the ones left would be more productive.

    Yes, libertarians that are open-borders are idiots, especially since we do have a welfare state. But the main reason why our immigration is bad is because the immigrants vote for statist candidates.

    Libertarians do take into account human differences. In fact, that is one of the strengths of the philosophy. One person can live in the city, someone else on a farm.

    That is not “human differences”, that is, in the language of libertarianism, “individual choices”. It is presumed, from the libertarian standpoint, that all humans and all human choices are equally valid and worthy. And that in turn is what leads to the libertarian belief in open borders – they see people as interchangeable units and countries as irrational and unfair limits on the choice of humans to live where they wish.

  201. @Annek
    A commenter who posts here and goes by Legartha, or something like that, is a woman and always seems to have a pretty interesting point of view.

    Thank You for your compliment. I don’t always make good comments or factually succinct ones because I am not a journalist/academic or anyone that has any street-cred in public policy or punditry. I am a very private person who has never (after 1989) worked for any corporate organization as an employee. I am in the creative sphere and work for myself…the perfect corporation of one – I learned that from my professor cousin who taught at Wharton (brag, brag, brag). I am a USA & EU citizen; have grown up with entrepreneurs, military people, scientists, teachers and artists, and a smattering of eccentrics. I have no affiliation with any political philosophy/party/mind-set…I am “politically homeless” I like to say, which includes being suspicious of political correctness from time to time. Commenting on this blog is a varsity sport, so you may not get as many women since one has to be fairly thick-skinned and stubborn. And, well known women in the public sphere, don’t have the time.

  202. @dumpstersquirrel
    "No straight guy says that most of his friends over the years have been women, and they sure as hell don’t prefer to work with or under a woman."

    I'm a man with normal sexuality and most of my friends over the years have been women, and I sure as hell don't prefer to work with or under a woman. I'm Gen-X, and most men of my generation are obsessed with vidjagames and sports, so it's almost impossible for me to connect with men because I have zero interest in the former and only passing interest in the latter. In fact, the only man friends I've had in the past decade have been much older than me, because they aren't obsessed with vidjagames and worshiping at the church of africanus footballus all weekend long.

    Younger GenXer here.
    I’m a straight man and for most of my life I’ve had women friends. Sometimes my small circle of friends included more women than men. I’m still good friends with a couple of women, but at this point in my life I’m consciously not trying to gain more women friends.

    I went on a date with this really smart math girl the other day.
    I didn’t find her attractive, though, so I never called her back. A few years ago, I’d have sincerely tried to keep her as a friend, for real. Now ? I have my 2 or 3 female friends that I’m loyal to and that’s enough for me.

    I certainly don’t have a preference for female bosses or colleagues but so far I’ve been able to work with them fine. I’m quite flexible.

  203. @Anonymous
    In general women are obsessed about taking away men's pornography and prostitution away from them. Have no doubt that this would be the very first action that will occur once, and I do mean once, the gynocracy ie the Democrat Party in full throttle, takes over.
    However, women are very keen to cling on to their own type of porn, and will brook no attempt from men to take it away from them, as if men even cared enough to do it.
    On a related note, the media circus surrounding DSK in France is in full swing. DSK is being painted as nasty, evil, perverted predator and the whores he hired as poor innocent lambs, victims and blameless.

    seriously, his (DSK) excuses (on record) are a major, duh…all your bs about “hired as poor innocent lambs” is even so much funnier…get a freaking life! DSK is a F***ing loser…I don’t want to pay my EU contribution/tax to this old goat on Viagra while we have, like, serious shit exploding and killing Americans, EU citizens, African peacekeepers, Ebola volunteers, or soldiers representing EU & USA…people are dying and he is into his “Eyes Wide Shut shit ,” fantasy….find your brains and balls.

  204. @duderino
    It always struck me that girls have competing desires when I had sex with them the first time. During pillow talk, they'd confess they'd made up their mind to have sex with me long ago. But leading up to sex there would be this faux prudishness: slapping my hand , giggling while saying no, and pretending to be offended by my sexual overtures. It was a case where no meant "not yet, but keep trying." I knew another who acted not interested and then completely dropped the facade when she saw me with somebody else . It's like they wanted to feel that A). They weren't easy. B). I'm not easy, and I had options C) sex just happened, there was no burden of making a logical decision to have sex on her part. So I guess the fantasy is have it both ways, not having to consent to a guy she obviously would have consented to. It's not a rape fantasy, it's a passionate consensual sex without explicit consent fantasy.

    spend your time with women who are more secure. Sex is sex…if they talk too much about the past then just zip up and get TF out of the room, seriously…don’t waste time with neophytes; history (today) is not a good thing for you regular guys in your 20’s.

    So, not knowing your age: surround yourself with happy girls (ones who grew up happy and seem balanced even if they are nerdy) and, well, the ones who compete with their friends or hate their parents, well, run! run fast! Take a break and travel by train abroad and really, just have time to do stupid sh** until you are 30….that’s what I tell my sons.

  205. @dumpstersquirrel
    "No straight guy says that most of his friends over the years have been women, and they sure as hell don’t prefer to work with or under a woman."

    I'm a man with normal sexuality and most of my friends over the years have been women, and I sure as hell don't prefer to work with or under a woman. I'm Gen-X, and most men of my generation are obsessed with vidjagames and sports, so it's almost impossible for me to connect with men because I have zero interest in the former and only passing interest in the latter. In fact, the only man friends I've had in the past decade have been much older than me, because they aren't obsessed with vidjagames and worshiping at the church of africanus footballus all weekend long.

    ” most of my friends over the years have been women…because they aren’t obsessed with vidjagames and worshiping at the church of africanus footballus all weekend long.”

    I agree with you there Bro…sewing circles and afternoon teas are much more…exhilarating.

  206. When you start from the premise that girls want to be raped, a lot of things make sense. (do it go on just for a second)

    Feminists will tell you rape is about power and domination (this is false)
    Men will argue it’s about sex (which is only half right)…
    WOMEN will tell you (perhaps not directly – but abstracted through the fantasy), that rape is about power and dominance over the MALE. She fantasizes about being raped because it is an act of complete control over male sexuality. He literally cannot control himself for her …and she likes it. Her absolute control of a male’s sexuality affirms her absolute beauty. (“who is the fairest of them all?”)

    Who would’ve thunk, female sexuality – the rape fantasy – is deeply intertwined with her vanity, narcissism and will to control?

  207. anon • Disclaimer says:
    @Anonymous
    In general women are obsessed about taking away men's pornography and prostitution away from them. Have no doubt that this would be the very first action that will occur once, and I do mean once, the gynocracy ie the Democrat Party in full throttle, takes over.
    However, women are very keen to cling on to their own type of porn, and will brook no attempt from men to take it away from them, as if men even cared enough to do it.
    On a related note, the media circus surrounding DSK in France is in full swing. DSK is being painted as nasty, evil, perverted predator and the whores he hired as poor innocent lambs, victims and blameless.

    You need to be more nuanced. Pretty young women doing porn (and prostitution), the vast majority of them, are sweet attitude having young things who enjoy what they do and appreciate that they make HUGE money for doing something they enjoy.

    It is only the YKW women who invented feminism who try to ban porn and prostitution as exploiting women. The women themselves (except for actual kidnap-forced-prostitution victims, which are rare) don’t feel exploited at all.

    The real reason YKW wants to ban porn and prostitution is that it is part of the overall goal of forcing men to “man up” and marry the post-CC and bad attitude having sluts. It’s simply wealth transfer from men to women. Porn and prostitution gives men an outlet with honest, totally willing women who would rather cut to the chase instead of wasting money on dinner and wine.

  208. @Anon
    There's a big gap between fantasy and reality. What a woman likes to fantasize about isn't necessarily what she wants in real life. Think about it. There are men who fantasize about lying under a leather-clad dominatrix with a whip in her hand, purring threats at him like Catwoman, but how many of those men have gone to the trouble to have those fantasies actually fulfilled?

    Sorry, iSteve readers. Too many of you guys have that Aspy touch that makes you take everything literally and seriously. You think if women read it, they must want it. Sorry, 50 Shades is just a fantasy that the majority of women indulge in for a couple of hours and then laugh off.

    I do find it rather disturbing that so many commentators here don't seem to believe that the space between your ears is your own legal property. It's really no one else's damned business what gets you off. Your sexual thoughts are not a crime--yet. Libertarianism is obviously not an iSteve political philosophy.

    No, woman, there are no men who have that fantasy. Men always fantasize about being the dominant.

  209. @SFG
    The first book of the series is the only book I have ever carried that got me a phone number. And *she* started talking to me.

    As for teh kink: men are more deviant. (I've done very, very mild BDSM--any more than that is risking legal trouble.) In every way from serial killing to Nobel prizes.

    An interesting example of a non-misandristic lesbian seems to be Camille Paglia.

    Camille is one of my favorite columnists. Yes, she is different than most other lesbians. She has an adopted son who is now 13 years old. I believe he changed her perspective of the world. She wants her son to succeed in the world and has come to appreciate what men provide to humanity … such as roads, airports, high-rise buildings, houses, airplanes, cars, electricity, and sewers. The list is very, very long. Have you ever seen feminists or lesbians fighting for their affirmative action quota to pour tar on roofs, pick up the garbage, or dig ditches for fiber optics cable?

Comments are closed.

Subscribe to All Steve Sailer Comments via RSS