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Washington Post: Trump's Speech in Poland Lacked Proper "Contempt for Borders"
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Veteran columnist Eugene Robinson writes in the Washington Post:

In His Puzzling Speech in Poland, Trump Addressed an Alternative World

By Eugene Robinson

July 07, 2017

WASHINGTON — … The speech Trump delivered Thursday in Warsaw’s Krasinski Square might have been appropriate when Britannia ruled the waves and Europe’s great powers held dominion over “lesser” peoples around the globe.

Damn those colonialist Poles who held dominion over “lesser” peoples around the globe. I am personally insulted by the fact that the Polish Empire’s colonies in Africa, Asia, and Latin America once existed.

Wait … What? …

The Poles didn’t have any colonies on other continents?

Yeah, well … Poles are still white so that makes them guilty of White Guilt.

Anyway, it was racist of the Poles to resist invasion by Nazis and Communists just because Germans and Russians aren’t the same color as Poles.

It had nothing useful to say about today’s interconnected world in which goods, people and ideas have contempt for borders.

Seriously, “contempt for borders” …

Did Trump slip Sodium Pentothal into the Georgetown water supply?

To 21st Century American elites, it galls them that their fellow citizens have a nice country to live in.

Trump might win again in 2020 if he can keep goading his enemies into articulating how they really feel about their fellow Americans.

Here is a picture of North of the Border: the par 3 sixth hole at Torrey Pines North, a San Diego municipal golf course. I birdied this hole in about 1975: a six iron to 20 feet, and then I’d read in a magazine article that the putt breaks six inches toward the ocean, which it does.

How can Americans deserve such beauty and serenity when Mexicans put up with crud and gunfire?

But that’s also the reason that Trump is President.

The most basic fact of American political life is that America has great borders.

We’ve got the best borders.

We’re not, say, Poland on August 31, 1939. They had bad borders.

Job Number One for any President of the United States of America is to preserve and protect our wonderful borders.

Here’s a picture of the 13th hold at Trump National Los Angeles: three iron to 30 feet left of the flag, right toward Avalon in the notch on Catalina Island, two putts.

In 2001 I had lunch with the man who paid for Pete Dye to design this golf course on land that I had cast a covetous eye upon from airliners taking off from LAX since 1976.

Unfortunately, just as he was finishing building his course, the 18th hole fell into the Pacific Ocean, requiring an 8-figure repair job.

This disaster drove the gentleman I lunched with into bankruptcy, and he eventually had to sell out to the current President.

Has anybody who has fashionable “contempt for borders” ever crossed the border between San Diego and Tijuana?

Below is a picture of South of the Border:

Having “contempt for borders” ought to immediately disqualify anybody from even claiming to speak for American interests.

“The fundamental question of our time is whether the West has the will to survive,” the president said. “Do we have the confidence in our values to defend them at any cost? Do we have enough respect for our citizens to protect our borders?” …

But what does Trump mean when he speaks of “the West” and its civilization? …”We write symphonies. We pursue innovation. We celebrate our ancient heroes, embrace our timeless traditions and customs, and always seek to explore and discover brand-new frontiers.”

That’s what I mean about a little learning. If the president read a few history books, he’d know that for most of the last 2,000 years, China and India were the world’s leading economic powers and Europe was a relatively primitive backwater.

He’d know that Europe rose to dominance not by erecting walls, but by opening itself to the rest of the world — its resources, products and people. …

It’s not racist for Washington to invade the world as long as the rest of America has to invite the world.

Imagine Italy without tomato sauce …

Actually, I can imagine Italy without tomato sauce. Here’s Sandro Botticelli’s The Birth of Venus, c. 1485:

 
    []
  1. Europe’s great powers held dominion over “lesser” peoples around the globe.

    We need scare quotes around lesser to remind us that those people are not lesser. They want to leave their countries, which are populated and run by people like themselves, and go live in countries built and run by white people, but in no way should we take that to suggest that there’s anything lesser about them.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Clyde
    All human beings are worthy of self determination/I am in favor of them doing this in their own nations (India and Guatemala, etc.) instead of the United States.
    , @Anonym
    In numerical terms they are greater now.
    , @SMK
    By "'lesser' peoples' " he means blacks, predominantly, and Arabs. Why would anyone think of blacks who've blighted (Seattle, Minneapolis, etc.) or destroyed (Detroit, St. Louis, Baltimore, etc.) every large city in the United Sates as "lesser peoples"? To say nothing of Sub-Saharan Africa, Haiti, Northern Brazil, etc. Why would anyone think of Muslims (virtually all of them Arabs) who, along with blacks, are blighting and will soon destroy France, the UK, Germany, etc., as "lesser peoples"?
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  2. anon says: • Disclaimer

    “China and India were the world’s leading economic powers and Europe was a relatively primitive backwater.”

    I have to agree about the Chinese and the Indians. Those guys are geniuses. Maybe we should look to them for guidance on immigration policies?

    Read More
    • Agree: Desiderius
    • Replies: @anon
    We did let in other people's resources and products, sure. But his speech didn't say anything against that.

    As far as letting in other people, I'm not sure what he means, unless he means slavery. Does he mean slavery? Is Eugene Robinson basically admitting that slavery was a good thing? Which, considering that it's why Eugene Robinson is in the West, and not living amongst those people who are still wanting to come to the West, certainly worked out to his benefit, at least.
    , @Tom-in-VA
    Absolutely agree. India has a big ol' border fence in the west to protect against Islamic extremist border infiltrators and a big ol' fence to the east to protect against economic migrants.
    , @SMK
    How does this refute what Trump said about Western Civilization? Robinson is so ignorant and bereft of learning that he doesn't even know what is meant to the "west" and Western Civilization. I'm surprised he didn't claim that the ancient Egyptians were black and that the Greeks stole all their knowledge.
  3. WASHINGTON — … The speech Trump delivered Thursday in Warsaw’s Krasinski Square might have been appropriate when Britannia ruled the waves and Europe’s great powers held dominion over “lesser” peoples around the globe.

    It had nothing useful to say about today’s interconnected world in which goods, people and ideas have contempt for borders.

    It doesn’t even make sense on its own terms. The British Empire had contempt for borders, and the author knows this and pointed it out. This is lunacy.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Thomas

    It doesn’t even make sense on its own terms. The British Empire had contempt for borders, and the author knows this and pointed it out. This is lunacy.
     
    Steve's sodium pentothal theory might have some merit. It's globalist and SJW "duckspeak," as Orwell would have put it, nothing more than progressive and globalist gestures and talking points strung together.
    , @Dutchman
    We should call the elites the "contemptuous" class since they have contempt for anything that hinders the complete centralization of power and wealth in their hands, borders being one example. I guess that makes us the contemptables since we stand in the way.
  4. EriK says:

    Do you know where a primitive backwater still exists Mr. Robinson?

    Read More
  5. Hey Robinson, how about I demonstrate my contempt for the borders of your house by breaking down the door, pooping on the floor, and living off the contents of your fridge for the indefinite future? It’ll be ok, since I’ll share my Great Aunt Merle’s pasta sauce recipe with you.

    Read More
    • Agree: ben tillman
    • Replies: @Lurker

    It’ll be ok, since I’ll share my Great Aunt Merle’s pasta sauce recipe with you.
     
    You say that. But if Robinson actually used the recipe then it would be cultural appropriation and he would be in trouble.
  6. anon says: • Disclaimer
    @anon
    "China and India were the world’s leading economic powers and Europe was a relatively primitive backwater."

    I have to agree about the Chinese and the Indians. Those guys are geniuses. Maybe we should look to them for guidance on immigration policies?

    We did let in other people’s resources and products, sure. But his speech didn’t say anything against that.

    As far as letting in other people, I’m not sure what he means, unless he means slavery. Does he mean slavery? Is Eugene Robinson basically admitting that slavery was a good thing? Which, considering that it’s why Eugene Robinson is in the West, and not living amongst those people who are still wanting to come to the West, certainly worked out to his benefit, at least.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Paul Jolliffe
    The idea that the Trans-Atlantic Slave Trade actually benefitted today's African-Americans was the subject of a terrific book back in the 1990's: Keith Richburg's "Out of America: A Black Man Confronts Africa".

    Richburg candidly admitted that he was glad his ancestors were forcibly brought to America - he lives here now, rather than in Africa. He describes the horror, the ugliness, the baseness of life in contemporary Africa in the most stunning and disturbing terms.

    Needless to say, Richburg's thesis has been given zero credence by the mainstream media. They've done their best to suppress, ignore and distort Richburg's thesis.

    https://www.amazon.com/Out-America-Black-Confronts-Africa/dp/0465001882
  7. J1234 says:

    In His Puzzling Speech in Poland….

    Let’s see, the Post was puzzled by his candidacy, puzzled by his campaign, puzzled by his victory, puzzled by his appointments, puzzled by his tweets and puzzled by his war with the press. And now this.

    Why it it that journalists are constantly trying to interpret the world for us when they’re so puzzled by such an important part of it? Apparently, being puzzled is a very moral thing to be.

    Read More
    • Agree: Harry Baldwin
    • Replies: @Dave Pinsen
    Maybe WaPo should hire one columnist who's not puzzled.
    , @AM

    Apparently, being puzzled is a very moral thing to be.
     
    It's better than being flat out wrong. It's possible to be "puzzled" forever. All sorts of self pats on the back for being "smart" (the world is complex) and never having once been incorrect.
  8. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer

    When Britannia ruled the waves, it actually violated most of the world’s borders:

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/history/9653497/British-have-invaded-nine-out-of-ten-countries-so-look-out-Luxembourg.html

    Read More
    • Replies: @jim jones
    My Filipino neighbour hates what the Spanish did to the Philippines with their policy of "casta", the other day he said to me that his country would have been a better place if the British had colonized them.
  9. Stealth says:

    And these are the people who label us traitors for calling their Russia narriative bogus. With patriots like these, who needs foreign enemies?

    Read More
    • Agree: Kevin C.
    • Replies: @Lurker
    If the Russia BS were true then surely it would be the Russians showing righteous contempt for US borders.
  10. Hubbub says:

    I knew a guy named Eugene once. He lived in a different world from the rest of humanity, too.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Olorin
    I know a town named Eugene.

    Same problem.

    Hm. An hypothesis rises.
  11. I would also note that it’s not even entirely clear that the majority of the past 2000 years India and China were way above the European backwater. Certainly almost nobody would argue that Europe led the past 500 years. By 1400 AD Europe was clearly ahead of India and China as well. By the 1300s Europe was making reading glasses and advanced astronomical clocks. I think a solid argument can even be mase that Europe was about equal or more advanced than China and India back to the 1200s or 1100s.

    The Early Roman Empire was also very advanced for the time period and it was at or above China and India for 300, 400 years. Possibly more in the eastern Roman empire.

    To be fair there were also hundreds of years during the time period qhere China and even India were more advances than Europe, but its not as simple as the writer makes it out.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Dave Pinsen
    India wasn't one country until last century. That's a point Portugal made when India demanded Goa back.

    Goa was wealthy when Vasco da Gama got there (the local king famously mocked the shabby trade goods of the Portuguese), but that wasn't due to innovation so much as it was to it being well-situated as an entrepôt.
  12. Lagertha says:

    Since when am I a historical nerd? how ’bout now: Poland, like Finland, have nothing (“John Snow, you know nothing“), meaning..(Poland has no minerals – precious metals, rare Earth metals, oil…duh) there are no natural resources for international commerce. Seriously, there are only blueberry, lingonberry, bramble berry bogs….and, lots of boulders….lots of blondes, and, weirdly, a whole lotta boats.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Autochthon, @Anon 2
    Actually, Poland has mountains, and wherever you have
    mountains, you also have mineral deposits. Poland has vast
    deposits of coal, huge amounts of copper and salt, some rare earths,
    and significant deposits of oil and gas, some offshore, some shale
  13. jim jones says:
    @Anonymous
    When Britannia ruled the waves, it actually violated most of the world's borders:

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/history/9653497/British-have-invaded-nine-out-of-ten-countries-so-look-out-Luxembourg.html

    My Filipino neighbour hates what the Spanish did to the Philippines with their policy of “casta”, the other day he said to me that his country would have been a better place if the British had colonized them.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Hell_Is_Like_Newark
    I have talked to Filipinos that wished their country was still a territory of the USA.
    , @Bill Jones
    I saw something a while ago that said 70% of Gambians wanted the British back in charge.

    (Great beaches there btw )
  14. Thomas says:
    @ben tillman

    WASHINGTON — … The speech Trump delivered Thursday in Warsaw’s Krasinski Square might have been appropriate when Britannia ruled the waves and Europe’s great powers held dominion over “lesser” peoples around the globe.

    It had nothing useful to say about today’s interconnected world in which goods, people and ideas have contempt for borders.
     
    It doesn't even make sense on its own terms. The British Empire had contempt for borders, and the author knows this and pointed it out. This is lunacy.

    It doesn’t even make sense on its own terms. The British Empire had contempt for borders, and the author knows this and pointed it out. This is lunacy.

    Steve’s sodium pentothal theory might have some merit. It’s globalist and SJW “duckspeak,” as Orwell would have put it, nothing more than progressive and globalist gestures and talking points strung together.

    Read More
  15. Svigor says:

    Toilet paper has contempt for borders, and the American Dream has contempt for borders, so the American people are just going to have to bend over and take it.

    Read More
  16. Svigor says:

    9 out of 10 crops currently rotting in the fields say: “we have contempt for borders!!!”

    Read More
  17. @Lagertha
    Since when am I a historical nerd? how 'bout now: Poland, like Finland, have nothing ("John Snow, you know nothing"), meaning..(Poland has no minerals - precious metals, rare Earth metals, oil...duh) there are no natural resources for international commerce. Seriously, there are only blueberry, lingonberry, bramble berry bogs....and, lots of boulders....lots of blondes, and, weirdly, a whole lotta boats.
    Read More
  18. Svigor says:

    Tyler Cowen just called, kindly reminded me that every kind of edible bean has nothing but contempt for borders.

    Read More
    • Replies: @roo_ster
    Damn, I laughed out loud at that one.

    "Hey, Tyler, I got some beans for you RIGHT HERE!"
  19. You know who else had contempt for Poland’s borders…

    Read More
    • Replies: @Clyde

    You know who else had contempt for Poland’s borders…
     
    I am sure the Polish make the Adolph-Merkel connection but do not say so publicly due to the EU benefits they receive. And lets admit that many EU benefits are German paid bribes to stay in the Germanic led flight pattern of geese.
  20. It is remarkable how Trump succeeds in provoking his opponents into self-revealing and so self-destructive behavior. Even when he seems to be saying something a bit crazy, he manages to get a response from his enemies that’s a dozen times crazier.

    It’s just freaky.

    There’s obviously a method to the madness, but I confess I haven’t figured it out yet. I doubt it’s deliberate in any important way. It’s like every shot he takes is from the hip, but also dead on target.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Clyde

    It is remarkable how Trump succeeds in provoking his opponents into self-revealing and so self-destructive behavior. Even when he seems to be saying something a bit crazy, he manages to get a response from his enemies that’s a dozen times crazier.
     
    Currently Steve Bannon is Trump's deep state and Ivanka/Jared are there for eye candy. Lets hope it remains this way. The Donald has been ascendant the last two weeks. If Trump keeps this up I am predicting with 40% possibility that he fires Mueller and his rigged game deep into middle August when all respectable swamp dwellers have exited due to the heat.
    , @CK
    If you think his shots are all "from the hip" you are "misunderestimating" his ability to understand his targets and when where and how to trigger them.
    I am aware that the acceptable meme is that the President is " dumb" "irrational",
    and a whole lot of other currently fashionable terms of derision.
    On the other hand, 19 published books by him, 36 books about him, several billion $ in assets,
    MBA from Wharton.
    , @res

    I doubt it’s deliberate in any important way.
     
    Sounds like Occam's Butterknife to me. It is hard for me to believe that a technique which is so effective is accidental.

    It’s like every shot he takes is from the hip, but also dead on target.
     
    I do like that analogy though. If I saw that in real life I would conclude:
    1. Someone has been practicing shooting from the hip.
    2. He might have come up with some good techniques to do so that are worth understanding.
    , @Almost Missouri
    Well, there's this explanation...

    http://mpcdot.com/forums/topic/8496-the-donald-trump-presidential-archive/page__st__26480#entry361984
  21. Dave Pinsen says: • Website
    @J1234

    In His Puzzling Speech in Poland....
     
    Let's see, the Post was puzzled by his candidacy, puzzled by his campaign, puzzled by his victory, puzzled by his appointments, puzzled by his tweets and puzzled by his war with the press. And now this.

    Why it it that journalists are constantly trying to interpret the world for us when they're so puzzled by such an important part of it? Apparently, being puzzled is a very moral thing to be.

    Maybe WaPo should hire one columnist who’s not puzzled.

    Read More
  22. Poland had no borders from 1795 to 1918 and from 1939-44 and it totally sucked ass both times. No borders is not a crowd pleasing idea in Poland.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Peter Akuleyev
    Poland had no borders from 1795 to 1918 and from 1939-44 and it totally sucked ass both times

    Not both times. Actually the Polish lands all grew much richer from 1795 to 1918. Just like the rest of Western Europe. Even Russian dominated Poland industrialized at a much faster rate than Russian proper. Warsaw became the gem of central Europe under the Tsars. Prussian Poland did even better economically, and Habsburg ruled-Poland enjoyed a cultural rennaissance even while the Ukrainian and Jewish populations were suffering under the lash of the ethnic Polish aristocracy.
  23. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer

    Europe was more advanced than China and India from 1300-2017 and in the Roman Empire from 17-330, and atleast about equal in even more years, so I don’t think his characterization that Europe was a backwater compared to them for most of the past 2000 years is very fair.

    Read More
    • Replies: @FX Enderby
    Typical anti-White "kangz" narrative. We taught yallz how to bathe!!!
    , @Patrick Harris
    Depends on the country you're talking about and the criteria you're using, but 1300 is a bit early, at least for China. To take merely one example, no European city reached the size of Asian cities until the 18th century, and even then London was singular, with Paris a distant second. China had a number of cities that size or larger. It has also had a highly sophisticated bureaucratic apparatus that no European state attained until the Early Modern period. It is probably true that Europe was more *dynamic* than China after 1300 or so.
    , @Reginald Maplethorp
    I seem to recall that lack of respect for borders had something to do with that 330 A.D. number...
  24. eah says:

    Yes — and Trump is an avid golfer, so he should understand the value of a lower score.

    Read More
    • Replies: @eah
    https://twitter.com/Outsideness/status/883191219022479360
    , @NOTA
    Do they control for race/ethnicity? Because otherwise they're just finding s way to measure the demographic change in France.
  25. Rod1963 says:

    God almighty what a horrid article. But expected, I bet Bezos approved it.

    It is interesting though that Trump is smoking out the elites and their real views of the world, people and civilization. They are truly evil people when unmasked.

    Our elites really aren’t that bright either if Trump just by giving a speech induces a mental bowel movement on their part.

    Their behavior reminds me of this scene from the move The Kingsman when Trump stumps them.

    The elites may represent the pinnacle of Western Education by virtue of attending the finest universities of the world but they are little more than “educated barbarians” in terms of the utter destructiveness they induced in the Western world and a lesser extent Asia.

    Read More
  26. eah says:
    @eah
    Yes -- and Trump is an avid golfer, so he should understand the value of a lower score.

    https://twitter.com/Outsideness/status/882864510914093057

    Read More
  27. Selvar says:

    “We live in the Current Year with interconnected trade and stuff and different kinds of foods, and iPhones. Don’t forget the iPhones. Also, arabs preserved some ancient texts 1,000 years ago, which basically means they wuz the kangz of Western civilization when you really think about it. Chinese and Indians also did cool civilization-related things.”

    Well, this is clearly a convincing, historically literate argument for allowing millions upon millions of low IQ military age black and muslim males to immigrate into Europe.

    Read More
  28. Clyde says:

    Stating the obvious here……Donald Trump’s triumphal speech was another campaign rally speech directed at Americans. Since it took place in Poland the jackass media was forced to give enhanced coverage to it. Score DJT!

    Yes, the anti-Muslim immigration Poles loved it too. There was so much enthusiasm to see DJT that bus transportation from outside Warsaw had to be coordinated so as not to make a huge mess and traffic jam.

    Pence: Trump laid out a ‘vision for the West’ in Warsaw speech

    http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/07/07/pence-trump-laid-out-vision-for-west-in-warsaw-speech.html

    Read More
  29. What is next w this Robinson moron, lamenting the German bombing of Pearl Harbor?

    Read More
  30. Clyde says:
    @Harry Baldwin
    Europe’s great powers held dominion over “lesser” peoples around the globe.

    We need scare quotes around lesser to remind us that those people are not lesser. They want to leave their countries, which are populated and run by people like themselves, and go live in countries built and run by white people, but in no way should we take that to suggest that there's anything lesser about them.

    All human beings are worthy of self determination/I am in favor of them doing this in their own nations (India and Guatemala, etc.) instead of the United States.

    Read More
  31. CHINA LITERALLY ERECTED THE “GREAT WALL OF CHINA”

    That was their immigration policy. Is this guy a moron or something?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Seneca
    And I believe India currently has a very long wall along one of its borders.
  32. Anon 2 says:

    Re: Poland as an evil colonialist power

    Technically, yes, there was a brief period of time in the 17th
    century when you could vaguely claim Poland had
    colonies, specifically Gambia in West Africa and Tobago
    in the Caribbean. It was actually the tiny Duchy of Courland,
    roughly coincident with today’s Latvia, that made those
    conquests, and the Duchy was a vassal to the Polish-
    Lithuanian Commonwealth, and later was incorporated
    into Poland. Somebody should write a book or two of
    swashbuckling adventures about those evil Courlanders.
    Poland itself was never much interested in military conquest.
    The Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth became the largest
    country in Europe through a personal union with Lithuania,
    not through conquest, and Poland was quite satisfied. Being
    the largest country in Europe was enough, no colonies
    were needed

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    I did not know any of that. That is quite interesting. That could make a book or two.
  33. Dutchman says:
    @ben tillman

    WASHINGTON — … The speech Trump delivered Thursday in Warsaw’s Krasinski Square might have been appropriate when Britannia ruled the waves and Europe’s great powers held dominion over “lesser” peoples around the globe.

    It had nothing useful to say about today’s interconnected world in which goods, people and ideas have contempt for borders.
     
    It doesn't even make sense on its own terms. The British Empire had contempt for borders, and the author knows this and pointed it out. This is lunacy.

    We should call the elites the “contemptuous” class since they have contempt for anything that hinders the complete centralization of power and wealth in their hands, borders being one example. I guess that makes us the contemptables since we stand in the way.

    Read More
  34. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @Anon 2
    Re: Poland as an evil colonialist power

    Technically, yes, there was a brief period of time in the 17th
    century when you could vaguely claim Poland had
    colonies, specifically Gambia in West Africa and Tobago
    in the Caribbean. It was actually the tiny Duchy of Courland,
    roughly coincident with today's Latvia, that made those
    conquests, and the Duchy was a vassal to the Polish-
    Lithuanian Commonwealth, and later was incorporated
    into Poland. Somebody should write a book or two of
    swashbuckling adventures about those evil Courlanders.
    Poland itself was never much interested in military conquest.
    The Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth became the largest
    country in Europe through a personal union with Lithuania,
    not through conquest, and Poland was quite satisfied. Being
    the largest country in Europe was enough, no colonies
    were needed

    I did not know any of that. That is quite interesting. That could make a book or two.

    Read More
  35. Clyde says:
    @Hippopotamusdrome
    You know who else had contempt for Poland's borders...

    You know who else had contempt for Poland’s borders…

    I am sure the Polish make the Adolph-Merkel connection but do not say so publicly due to the EU benefits they receive. And lets admit that many EU benefits are German paid bribes to stay in the Germanic led flight pattern of geese.

    Read More
  36. Seneca says:
    @Joe, averaged
    CHINA LITERALLY ERECTED THE "GREAT WALL OF CHINA"

    That was their immigration policy. Is this guy a moron or something?

    And I believe India currently has a very long wall along one of its borders.

    Read More
    • Replies: @PiltdownMan

    And I believe India currently has a very long wall along one of its borders.
     
    You can see the border with Pakistan from space at night, because of the klieg lights and it is patrolled by soldiers with orders to shoot.

    https://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/IOTD/view.php?id=52008

    http://images.indianexpress.com/2016/04/ceasefire-lead.jpg


    It plans to seal its eastern border with Bangladesh as well as is apparently mostly done.

    Both borders account for about half of its total of 8,600 miles of defended border, most of the rest being with China and Burma.

  37. Clyde says:
    @candid_observer
    It is remarkable how Trump succeeds in provoking his opponents into self-revealing and so self-destructive behavior. Even when he seems to be saying something a bit crazy, he manages to get a response from his enemies that's a dozen times crazier.

    It's just freaky.

    There's obviously a method to the madness, but I confess I haven't figured it out yet. I doubt it's deliberate in any important way. It's like every shot he takes is from the hip, but also dead on target.

    It is remarkable how Trump succeeds in provoking his opponents into self-revealing and so self-destructive behavior. Even when he seems to be saying something a bit crazy, he manages to get a response from his enemies that’s a dozen times crazier.

    Currently Steve Bannon is Trump’s deep state and Ivanka/Jared are there for eye candy. Lets hope it remains this way. The Donald has been ascendant the last two weeks. If Trump keeps this up I am predicting with 40% possibility that he fires Mueller and his rigged game deep into middle August when all respectable swamp dwellers have exited due to the heat.

    Read More
  38. @Seneca
    And I believe India currently has a very long wall along one of its borders.

    And I believe India currently has a very long wall along one of its borders.

    You can see the border with Pakistan from space at night, because of the klieg lights and it is patrolled by soldiers with orders to shoot.

    https://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/IOTD/view.php?id=52008

    It plans to seal its eastern border with Bangladesh as well as is apparently mostly done.

    Both borders account for about half of its total of 8,600 miles of defended border, most of the rest being with China and Burma.

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  39. @Anonymous
    Europe was more advanced than China and India from 1300-2017 and in the Roman Empire from 17-330, and atleast about equal in even more years, so I don't think his characterization that Europe was a backwater compared to them for most of the past 2000 years is very fair.

    Typical anti-White “kangz” narrative. We taught yallz how to bathe!!!

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  40. Tom-in-VA says:
    @anon
    "China and India were the world’s leading economic powers and Europe was a relatively primitive backwater."

    I have to agree about the Chinese and the Indians. Those guys are geniuses. Maybe we should look to them for guidance on immigration policies?

    Absolutely agree. India has a big ol’ border fence in the west to protect against Islamic extremist border infiltrators and a big ol’ fence to the east to protect against economic migrants.

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  41. Looks like an MSM full-court press – the Graun has piled in:

    https//www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/jul/07/donald-trump-poland-speech-western-civilisation-holy-war

    by a Walter Shapiro.

    Ethno state for me, but not for thee.

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  42. @cliff arroyo
    Poland had no borders from 1795 to 1918 and from 1939-44 and it totally sucked ass both times. No borders is not a crowd pleasing idea in Poland.

    Poland had no borders from 1795 to 1918 and from 1939-44 and it totally sucked ass both times

    Not both times. Actually the Polish lands all grew much richer from 1795 to 1918. Just like the rest of Western Europe. Even Russian dominated Poland industrialized at a much faster rate than Russian proper. Warsaw became the gem of central Europe under the Tsars. Prussian Poland did even better economically, and Habsburg ruled-Poland enjoyed a cultural rennaissance even while the Ukrainian and Jewish populations were suffering under the lash of the ethnic Polish aristocracy.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Bies Podkrakowski
    In that case it was rather sad gem. IIRC Norman Davies in his "Gods Playground"has a fragment from British tourist guide from the beginning of XX century: Warsaw is a gloomy, oppressive city, with garrison atmosphere, full of Cossack patrols looking for subversives and Polish revolutionaries.
    , @Lex
    Every part of Europe was developing at that time, doesn't mean it wasn't dark period especially for hundreds of thousands sent to Siberia.

    And Jews grew richer in late 19th century than they ever were in Poland. Only after peasantry started to cooperate and educate themselves their situation worsened(you can read about it in Jan Słomka diaries).

  43. @Anonymous
    Europe was more advanced than China and India from 1300-2017 and in the Roman Empire from 17-330, and atleast about equal in even more years, so I don't think his characterization that Europe was a backwater compared to them for most of the past 2000 years is very fair.

    Depends on the country you’re talking about and the criteria you’re using, but 1300 is a bit early, at least for China. To take merely one example, no European city reached the size of Asian cities until the 18th century, and even then London was singular, with Paris a distant second. China had a number of cities that size or larger. It has also had a highly sophisticated bureaucratic apparatus that no European state attained until the Early Modern period. It is probably true that Europe was more *dynamic* than China after 1300 or so.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Europe lagged China technologically before, say, 1300. But on the other hand, when the Europeans discovered something over the last thousand years, it generally stayed discovered. Around 1300, for example, Europeans were steadily inventing clocks, which economic historian David Landes called the master technology that boosted productivity by coordinating society. (In Roman times, most important political meeting happened around dawn because that was the only time that people could coordinate upon due to the help of roosters.) The Chinese had earlier invented water clocks, but they didn't really do much with them. In general, Chinese technological history is a frustrating chronicle of brilliant breakthroughs, such as drilling for natural gas, without seemingly inevitable subsequent development.
    , @Expletive Deleted
    Tenochtitlan was absolutely mega when Cortes called in in 1530, 212,500, or more. London was a piddling (estimated) 50,000 in 1530, and only grew to ca. 225,000 by 1605. Mexico City is now pretty much the same size population as That London, just under 9 million. I wonder which was, and is, more 'advanced'? At least London had restricted its human sacrifices to a few hardnosed religious types by that time.
    tl;dr city size is a thoroughly bad metric, verging on dishonest, trying to rank North Atlantic island carrying capacities with those of tropical paradises. They'll be telling me next that Lagos is more advanced than Copenhagen.
    , @Almost Missouri
    Hmm ... so China invented urban crowding and bureaucratic overreach first. Well done China!

    Irrespective of technical civilizational milestones, (e.g., moveable type, gunpowder: both of which were abortive in China and revolutionary in the West), except for the depths of the Dark Ages (and even then it is debatable), the average European probably had a higher standard of living than the average Chinese or Indian. And this in turn is reduceable to one single factor: the West avoided living at the Malthusian Limit.

    Fortunately, some forward-thinking progressives have had the idea of importing massive numbers of third-worlders so that after millennia of undeservedly forging ahead, the West can finally run headlong into the Wall of Malthus.
    , @Steve Sailer
    Europe lagged China technologically before, say, 1300. But on the other hand, when the Europeans discovered something over the last thousand years, it generally stayed discovered. Around 1300, for example, Europeans were steadily inventing clocks, which economic historian David Landes called the master technology that boosted productivity by coordinating society. (In Roman times, most important political meeting happened around dawn because that was the only time that people could coordinate upon due to the help of roosters.) The Chinese had earlier invented water clocks, but they didn't really do much with them. In general, Chinese technological history is a frustrating chronicle of brilliant breakthroughs, such as drilling for natural gas, without seemingly inevitable subsequent development.
    , @Autochthon
    How populous a city (or indeed an empire) may be and how complicated a bureaucracy may be have sod all to do with civilisational advancement. By your lights California's DMV outshines the Manhattan Project and Bangalore is preferable to Del Mar.
    , @Hippopotamusdrome


    no European city reached the size of Asian cities until the 18th century

     

    Whatever. Delhi (sorry, I mean Kolkata) has 17 million people. Thats an order of magnitude more population than most American cities. What does that prove? A fertile flood plain can support millions of peasant subsistence farmers. There is more to civilization than toilet paper sales (ok, I know, but you know what I mean).

    River discharge in m3/sec:
    Yangtze 30,166
    Ganges 16,648
    Rhine 2,900
    Seine 560
    Thames 66

    It's not so incredible that Shanghai was more populous than London or Paris.
  44. CK says:
    @candid_observer
    It is remarkable how Trump succeeds in provoking his opponents into self-revealing and so self-destructive behavior. Even when he seems to be saying something a bit crazy, he manages to get a response from his enemies that's a dozen times crazier.

    It's just freaky.

    There's obviously a method to the madness, but I confess I haven't figured it out yet. I doubt it's deliberate in any important way. It's like every shot he takes is from the hip, but also dead on target.

    If you think his shots are all “from the hip” you are “misunderestimating” his ability to understand his targets and when where and how to trigger them.
    I am aware that the acceptable meme is that the President is ” dumb” “irrational”,
    and a whole lot of other currently fashionable terms of derision.
    On the other hand, 19 published books by him, 36 books about him, several billion $ in assets,
    MBA from Wharton.

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  45. dr kill says:
    @Buck Turgidson
    What is next w this Robinson moron, lamenting the German bombing of Pearl Harbor?

    Yes. Sadly, Mr. Robinson is no Leonard Pitts.

    Read More
  46. Rob McX says:

    Imagine Italy without tomato sauce…

    It’s a well-known fact that you can’t enjoy any kind of gastronomic variety unless you’re willing to let millions of low-IQ, unemployable, oversexed Third Worlders into your country. As they watch the boats landing from Africa, Italians must be thinking “maybe we should have invented our own tomato sauce”.

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  47. @Patrick Harris
    Depends on the country you're talking about and the criteria you're using, but 1300 is a bit early, at least for China. To take merely one example, no European city reached the size of Asian cities until the 18th century, and even then London was singular, with Paris a distant second. China had a number of cities that size or larger. It has also had a highly sophisticated bureaucratic apparatus that no European state attained until the Early Modern period. It is probably true that Europe was more *dynamic* than China after 1300 or so.

    Europe lagged China technologically before, say, 1300. But on the other hand, when the Europeans discovered something over the last thousand years, it generally stayed discovered. Around 1300, for example, Europeans were steadily inventing clocks, which economic historian David Landes called the master technology that boosted productivity by coordinating society. (In Roman times, most important political meeting happened around dawn because that was the only time that people could coordinate upon due to the help of roosters.) The Chinese had earlier invented water clocks, but they didn’t really do much with them. In general, Chinese technological history is a frustrating chronicle of brilliant breakthroughs, such as drilling for natural gas, without seemingly inevitable subsequent development.

    Read More
    • Replies: @kihowi
    China invented moveable type way, way before us, then did nothing with it. They kept carving woodblocks BY HAND until the 19th century Europeans (with unfortunate disregard for borders) explained their own invention to them.
    , @Anon 2
    To show the superiority of Western science in the
    ancient world you only need to mention the Antikythera
    mechanism, recovered in early 20th century from a shipwreck
    and dating back to about 100 BC. It was an analog computer
    consisting of 37 interlocking gears, designed with such
    extreme precision that human technology would not
    have been able to duplicate this feat until the 18th century.
    Based on archeological data, it was machined by Greek
    scientists in order to predict the astronomical positions
    of the seven moving objects in the sky. There are hundreds
    if not thousands of ancient shipwrecks lying on the
    Mediterranean floor. Who knows what else will be
    discovered in the coming decades. For example, Aristotle
    wrote many dialogues, like Plato, but none of them
    survive. Hence he acquired an undeserved reputation as
    a pedestrian stylist (except for his Ethics I'd say). It would
    be nice to recover some of his dialogues, and perhaps
    more ancient plays.
    , @Bill P
    It's due to a fundamental flaw in China's culture and philosophy, namely its legal philosophy.

    The Romans gave the world the most advanced civil law ever, because they focused their philosophical efforts on the law, and made extremely important innovations in this field that allowed Europeans to slowly build up a functional market economy that could operate with a large degree of independence from the state.

    Without a well-developed legal system, the incentives for financing and supporting private innovation melt away, leaving the state a monopoly over such efforts. If you are an inventor, the state can freely steal your work, and if you are a private citizen looking to profit from some innovation you have no legal guarantee that your investment will be returned.

    If you take Johann Guenberg for example, his project involved a lot of financing and collaboration, which led to some messy lawsuits over the years. But at least everyone involved had the opportunity to plead their case in court. Without that a priori guarantee, Gutenberg's project wouldn't have received the necessary investment.

    If there had been a Chinese version of Gutenberg, he would have been entirely at the mercy of officials, who could have cited any number of edicts to either require him to hand over his work to the local strongman or to seize any funding for their own personal projects, leaving him short of capital. There was no concept of rule of law.

    Under this system, who would bother to innovate or invest?

    China has not (yet) changed in this regard.
    , @Anon 2
    One reason why science developed most rapidly
    in the West is monotheism (esp. Christian monotheism).
    In Christianity, unlike in various types of polytheisms
    typical of India or China, there is only one Lawgiver
    who imposes laws of nature on the Universe. For example,
    the law of the conservation of energy had its origin in
    theology (or at least was buttressed by theology): what
    God creates cannot disappear, hence if God created bodies
    in motion, their motion cannot vanish.

    In polytheism one has many gods and therefore many
    conflicting wills. It's not clear how this could result in
    a single set of, say, laws of motion. Moreover, in
    Christian monotheism, unlike in various pantheisms one
    finds in Asia, the world is separate from God, and hence is not
    divine, and therefore one does not commit blasphemy by making
    such a world an object of study.

    , @Dave Pinsen
    Clocks were also hugely important for navigation, in helping determine longitude. James Cook had three of the most advanced ones of the day on his ship.

    Another example of a Chinese technological breakthrough that wasn't followed up on was Zheng He's fleet of ocean-going ships.
  48. “We’ve got the best borders.”

    I dunno, I’ll bet Canada could make a good claim here.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Saxon
    Canada is going to be less than 50% white and largely aged in that cohort by the year 2036. What this means is that by 2036, they will have went from a 97% white population in 1971 to less than 50% in 65 years time. I don't see that as good borders. America might have to build another wall or simply invade the territory by that point.
  49. Imagine Italy without tomato sauce …

    Does Robinson really believe that the sum of Italian cuisine is Prego and noodles?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Escher
    Imagine Asia without forks and knives. Japanese diners would be struggling to lift giant porterhouse steaks with chopsticks.
    , @Bugg
    Robinson is such a silly goose he doesn't know tomatoes are a New World import to Italy, as were potatoes to Ireland. Julius Caesar never tasted a tomato, nor did St. Patrick eat a potato. Next you will tell him the American India...Native Americans never rode horses until the evil white man showed up. Perhaps when you spend your academic career babbling about ethnic studies simple factual world history is not in your syllabus.
  50. Wazoo says:

    Western Europe is starting to feel increasingly unsafe. A disaster of epic proportions is looming, and people are starting to feel it. Expect a big uptick in white flight over the next few years as the smarter and wealthier people take action. The early deciders will benefit most – they’ll be able to liquidate their assets without major losses. Everyone else is going to be screwed.

    Read More
    • Replies: @BenKenobi
    At one point they'll have to decide which one would they prefer liquidated: their assets or themselves?
    , @dr kill
    Here in Palm Beach County, it's already happening.
  51. Rob McX says:

    Even the donkeys in Tijuana have to disguise themselves as zebras to avoid being trafficked into the sex industry.

    Read More
    • Replies: @StillCARealist
    Mexican culture sure seems to love bright colors.

    As to the TJ/San Diego border crossing, the last time we went through there...90's... plenty of people wandering through the crawling traffic trying to sell trinkets and brightly colored Mexican wares. It's like a gigantic bazaar filled with junk.
  52. Eugene Robinson is an anti-White dope. Eugene Robinson proves the point that many Blacks and Mulattos have an overwhelming desire to see European Christian nations destroyed by mass immigration and multicultural mayhem.

    Eugene Robinson enjoys the privilege of living in a nation colonized, settled and pioneered by people from European Christian kingdoms and nations. Robinson knows damn well that if his Black ass was back in sub-Saharan Africa he’d be sitting in the mud with a bad case of malaria.

    Robinson’s hatred of Whites is the reason why he pushes open borders mass immigration so much. Robinson knows that open borders mass immigration is bad for Whites, and that’s all that matters.

    Eugene Robinson can go straight to hell.

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  53. @Peter Akuleyev
    Poland had no borders from 1795 to 1918 and from 1939-44 and it totally sucked ass both times

    Not both times. Actually the Polish lands all grew much richer from 1795 to 1918. Just like the rest of Western Europe. Even Russian dominated Poland industrialized at a much faster rate than Russian proper. Warsaw became the gem of central Europe under the Tsars. Prussian Poland did even better economically, and Habsburg ruled-Poland enjoyed a cultural rennaissance even while the Ukrainian and Jewish populations were suffering under the lash of the ethnic Polish aristocracy.

    In that case it was rather sad gem. IIRC Norman Davies in his “Gods Playground”has a fragment from British tourist guide from the beginning of XX century: Warsaw is a gloomy, oppressive city, with garrison atmosphere, full of Cossack patrols looking for subversives and Polish revolutionaries.

    Read More
  54. Anonym says:
    @Harry Baldwin
    Europe’s great powers held dominion over “lesser” peoples around the globe.

    We need scare quotes around lesser to remind us that those people are not lesser. They want to leave their countries, which are populated and run by people like themselves, and go live in countries built and run by white people, but in no way should we take that to suggest that there's anything lesser about them.

    In numerical terms they are greater now.

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  55. Escher says:
    @Alec Leamas

    Imagine Italy without tomato sauce …
     
    Does Robinson really believe that the sum of Italian cuisine is Prego and noodles?

    Imagine Asia without forks and knives. Japanese diners would be struggling to lift giant porterhouse steaks with chopsticks.

    Read More
  56. Eugene Robinson lives in Arlington, Va.

    Arlington County is 64% white and 9% black.

    For a black Washington Post writer, finding a neighborhood to live in in the DC area that is less than 10% black has to be a conscious choice. There are dozens of vibrant, majority black neighborhoods to live in, but I guess he wasn’t interested.

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  57. It’s the same thing with Melania. Last fall, a number of liberal rags went all in on the “story” that she was an illegal immigrant and a possible call girl. They quickly dropped it after she sued the Daily Mail and won damages. But it showed that libs are misogynistic and anti-immigrant to the core, far worse than Trump could ever be. May he always have this magical doxxing ability with our liberal friends.

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  58. Bugg says:
    @Alec Leamas

    Imagine Italy without tomato sauce …
     
    Does Robinson really believe that the sum of Italian cuisine is Prego and noodles?

    Robinson is such a silly goose he doesn’t know tomatoes are a New World import to Italy, as were potatoes to Ireland. Julius Caesar never tasted a tomato, nor did St. Patrick eat a potato. Next you will tell him the American India…Native Americans never rode horses until the evil white man showed up. Perhaps when you spend your academic career babbling about ethnic studies simple factual world history is not in your syllabus.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Clyde

    Robinson is such a silly goose he doesn’t know tomatoes are a New World import to Italy, as were potatoes to Ireland. Julius Caesar never tasted a tomato, nor did St. Patrick eat a potato.
     
    No one really cares because no one thinks about this. I doubt I would like much of Italian cuisine minus the tomato. I like kim chi and usually have some in the refrigerator. But Koreans had no red pepper spiced kim chi before they got hot peppers from the New World. Most likely via the Portuguese even if indirectly. The Portuguese brought them to Goa, they spread out from there. But once again no one cares because modern people prefer being ahistorical. Same as they would not know or care that there has never been a society that had gay marriage for an extended time. Degenerate Roman emperors and their regimes do not count.
  59. Altai says:

    To 21st Century American elites, it galls them that their fellow citizens have a nice country to live in.

    I think this should be the crux of the issue. Ethnically-homogeneous borders and nationalism coincided with mass democracy. Nationalism contains the crazy notion that one has value in ones society inherently, as a part of the club. For the lower classes that is hugely valuable, it means you matter, no matter how lowly you matter, you’re in this with us. I will sacrifice for my kin and give alms through the state to the less fortunate, because they have no agenda against me, they are part of me. I am safe among my kin, my reputation and actions are what matters, not my group affiliation as we are all part of the same group and society. (Save class conflict) Contrast this with modern Europe. Where is one most likely to be attacked for no other reason than being ethnically German? France? Russia? No, it’s Germany, the same can be said for England, France, Netherlands, Sweden, etc.

    That’s the difference between life in Iceland, Denmark or Poland and life in urban USA.

    People like Zuckerberg will point out that the history of the last few centuries has been the creation of greater circles of identity inclusion. That’s true, we went from our village being our kin to our region to our nation, but that process did not take place indefinitely. Places like Germany, Spain and Italy did not expand indefinitely, they expanded to incorporate people who were more alike to each other than those outside by a large margin. The German confederation did not expand to simply include Denmark or Poland. (Except by force) For god’s sake Bavarian identity and nationalism is still alive and well today! Catalonia contains a majority in favour of independence. A majority of ethnic Scots want independence.

    Modern Europeans may have friends, associates and inlaws from different European nations, but they don’t feel like they are interchangeable with one another. They may have no desire for war amongst themselves but that doesn’t mean they want their borders or homelands to be merged with one another. Even the poorer states who may gain by such a merger with a richer one.

    As always ripping up the social contracts of centuries old nations is easy and only backwards people object, anti-trust laws, banking regulations and anything other than full free trade are complex issues that we should resist simple solutions to.

    I sometimes also wonder if it isn’t malevolence for some of these people, but simple lack of experience of being a part of this. They only know places like New York and London post-diversity.

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  60. roo_ster says:
    @Svigor
    Tyler Cowen just called, kindly reminded me that every kind of edible bean has nothing but contempt for borders.

    Damn, I laughed out loud at that one.

    “Hey, Tyler, I got some beans for you RIGHT HERE!”

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  61. kihowi says:
    @Steve Sailer
    Europe lagged China technologically before, say, 1300. But on the other hand, when the Europeans discovered something over the last thousand years, it generally stayed discovered. Around 1300, for example, Europeans were steadily inventing clocks, which economic historian David Landes called the master technology that boosted productivity by coordinating society. (In Roman times, most important political meeting happened around dawn because that was the only time that people could coordinate upon due to the help of roosters.) The Chinese had earlier invented water clocks, but they didn't really do much with them. In general, Chinese technological history is a frustrating chronicle of brilliant breakthroughs, such as drilling for natural gas, without seemingly inevitable subsequent development.

    China invented moveable type way, way before us, then did nothing with it. They kept carving woodblocks BY HAND until the 19th century Europeans (with unfortunate disregard for borders) explained their own invention to them.

    Read More
    • Replies: @David
    H. G. Welles observes that before the 14th cent, there was no plentiful product to print on. The production of parchment or papyrus was so slow that the subsequent filling of it with text by hand was relatively less time consuming. Movable type was invented fairly soon (a little over a hundred years) after the introduction of industrial production of paper.
  62. NOTA says:
    @eah
    Yes -- and Trump is an avid golfer, so he should understand the value of a lower score.

    https://twitter.com/Outsideness/status/882864510914093057

    Do they control for race/ethnicity? Because otherwise they’re just finding s way to measure the demographic change in France.

    Read More
    • Replies: @eah
    Because otherwise they’re just finding s way to measure the demographic change in France.

    In the IQ and the Wealth of Nations sense that's one of the main points -- if not the main point.
  63. kihowi says:

    I’ve lost the ability to deal with jewish logic. This whole piece is like a fever dream. No sentence is linked to any other, there’s no train of thought, no conclusion built up. It just pushes the right buttons for the moderately intelligent who relate to the world through their feelings.

    Just like there are some comedians who are so unfunny that they make you forget you ever laughed, jewish logic makes you forget you ever read an honest and intelligent argument.

    Read More
    • Replies: @AM

    I’ve lost the ability to deal with jewish logic.
     
    It's not logic. It's panic.
    , @kaganovitch
    "I’ve lost the ability to deal with jewish logic. This whole piece is like a fever dream. "

    Eugene Levy Jewish, Eugene Robinson not so much.
  64. Svigor says:

    If Trump keeps this up I am predicting with 40% possibility that he fires Mueller and his rigged game deep into middle August when all respectable swamp dwellers have exited due to the heat.

    I still think firing Mueller would be a mistake. Instead, appoint a special prosecutor to investigate him, Comey, his conflict of interest with Comey, the obvious sleaze of a heavily Democrat-donor legal team, Lynch, Clinton, Hussein, Seth Rich’s death, etc.

    As far as dealing with Mueller, that’s what stonewalling is for. Mueller gives every appearance of a conflict of interest with Comey, partisanship in team selection, and most important, Trump has now flipped the script so that the Democrat Party are the prime suspects in Russia collusion (they’re all openly calling for States to resist the investigation into the 2016 election); you stonewall this kind of farce. You plead the fifth and refer the scum to your lawyers.

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  65. Saxon says:
    @Paco Wové
    "We’ve got the best borders."

    I dunno, I'll bet Canada could make a good claim here.

    Canada is going to be less than 50% white and largely aged in that cohort by the year 2036. What this means is that by 2036, they will have went from a 97% white population in 1971 to less than 50% in 65 years time. I don’t see that as good borders. America might have to build another wall or simply invade the territory by that point.

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  66. Anon 2 says:

    IMHO Trump’s speech in Warsaw will be seen as
    one of the defining moments of our time. People will
    be going on pilgrimages to see the place where it was
    delivered. Who knows, perhaps even courses in Western Civ
    will make a comeback. I took two semesters of Western
    Civ in college, which turned out to be one of the most
    enjoyable learning experiences of my life

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  67. AM says:
    @J1234

    In His Puzzling Speech in Poland....
     
    Let's see, the Post was puzzled by his candidacy, puzzled by his campaign, puzzled by his victory, puzzled by his appointments, puzzled by his tweets and puzzled by his war with the press. And now this.

    Why it it that journalists are constantly trying to interpret the world for us when they're so puzzled by such an important part of it? Apparently, being puzzled is a very moral thing to be.

    Apparently, being puzzled is a very moral thing to be.

    It’s better than being flat out wrong. It’s possible to be “puzzled” forever. All sorts of self pats on the back for being “smart” (the world is complex) and never having once been incorrect.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Desiderius
    The irony is that we're they actually puzzled it would be a great improvement.

    Instead they're 100% sure they're completely right.
  68. eah says:
    @NOTA
    Do they control for race/ethnicity? Because otherwise they're just finding s way to measure the demographic change in France.

    Because otherwise they’re just finding s way to measure the demographic change in France.

    In the IQ and the Wealth of Nations sense that’s one of the main points — if not the main point.

    Read More
  69. AM says:

    Here is a picture of North of the Border: the par 3 sixth hole at Torrey Pines North, a San Diego municipal golf course.

    My Dad watches golf on TV, the game part of which I confess I find boring. However, almost always the actual courses are eye candy. They’re beautiful to see and to watch the players play.

    I don’t keep score when I golf (okay, a little). But I love being out there and I love when I get the occasional shot that looks just like it does when the pros do it. The difference between me and the pros being the frequency of said shots. :)

    To able to play on those courses – that’s just amazing.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Lot
    Torrey Pines is pretty cheap for San Diego city residents, $29 to $78 per round depending on time and age, plus a $30 booking fee.


    https://www.sandiego.gov/park-and-recreation/golf/torreypines/reservations/fees

    A round for non-residents starts around $120.
  70. Pat Boyle says:

    Are you trying to be subtle Steve?

    The Botticelli painted in 1485 was indeed from an Italy without tomatoes – or corn (for polenta) or potatoes or even chocolate. The Italian Christopher Columbus sailed west seven years later (1492) to discover tomatoes. Italy naturally had no tomatoes for marinara sauce. But it’s sons were mariners and went west over the horizon to get some.

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  71. AM says:
    @kihowi
    I've lost the ability to deal with jewish logic. This whole piece is like a fever dream. No sentence is linked to any other, there's no train of thought, no conclusion built up. It just pushes the right buttons for the moderately intelligent who relate to the world through their feelings.

    Just like there are some comedians who are so unfunny that they make you forget you ever laughed, jewish logic makes you forget you ever read an honest and intelligent argument.

    I’ve lost the ability to deal with jewish logic.

    It’s not logic. It’s panic.

    Read More
  72. Having “contempt for borders” ought to immediately disqualify anybody from even claiming to speak for American interests.

    Why is that?

    Read More
  73. @AM

    Apparently, being puzzled is a very moral thing to be.
     
    It's better than being flat out wrong. It's possible to be "puzzled" forever. All sorts of self pats on the back for being "smart" (the world is complex) and never having once been incorrect.

    The irony is that we’re they actually puzzled it would be a great improvement.

    Instead they’re 100% sure they’re completely right.

    Read More
  74. PA Polka says:

    “That’s what I mean about a little learning. If the president read a few history books, he’d know that for most of the last 2,000 years, China and India were the world’s leading economic powers and Europe was a relatively primitive backwater.”

    More than a few mainstream history books written since the 1950′s give the impression that progress in the West depended upon appropriating the knowledge of the East, the resources of the new world and free labor from the slave trade and that the achievements of western civilization had nothing to do with anything special in the character of European people or their culture or genetics. Anyone under the age of fifty today with a traditional sense of the role of western civilization had some bad-thinking parents who passed on the forbidden knowledge from old history books.

    I am currently reading The Uniqueness of Western Civilization by Ricardo Duchesne. He systematically and thoroughly examines the claims these historians make to support the Sino-centric view and presents are far more nuanced picture.

    Every home should have a copy of this book before this history goes down the memory hole.

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  75. I think if progressives ever threaten golf courses Steve will be an eager convert to the Pinochet school of dealing with leftists.

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  76. @jim jones
    My Filipino neighbour hates what the Spanish did to the Philippines with their policy of "casta", the other day he said to me that his country would have been a better place if the British had colonized them.

    I have talked to Filipinos that wished their country was still a territory of the USA.

    Read More
    • Replies: @PV van der Byl
    Yes, the Philippine Statehood Movement was actually registered as a political party.

    Although it was never a serious contender for the Presidency, they did have a couple of Congressmen and the party organization was run by a retired Colonel for years.
  77. res says:
    @candid_observer
    It is remarkable how Trump succeeds in provoking his opponents into self-revealing and so self-destructive behavior. Even when he seems to be saying something a bit crazy, he manages to get a response from his enemies that's a dozen times crazier.

    It's just freaky.

    There's obviously a method to the madness, but I confess I haven't figured it out yet. I doubt it's deliberate in any important way. It's like every shot he takes is from the hip, but also dead on target.

    I doubt it’s deliberate in any important way.

    Sounds like Occam’s Butterknife to me. It is hard for me to believe that a technique which is so effective is accidental.

    It’s like every shot he takes is from the hip, but also dead on target.

    I do like that analogy though. If I saw that in real life I would conclude:
    1. Someone has been practicing shooting from the hip.
    2. He might have come up with some good techniques to do so that are worth understanding.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Bill Jones
    He shoots from the lip.

    Much closer to the eyes and ears in identifying the target.

    The old media really is full of barking mad whack jobs.
  78. BenKenobi says:
    @Wazoo
    Western Europe is starting to feel increasingly unsafe. A disaster of epic proportions is looming, and people are starting to feel it. Expect a big uptick in white flight over the next few years as the smarter and wealthier people take action. The early deciders will benefit most - they'll be able to liquidate their assets without major losses. Everyone else is going to be screwed.

    At one point they’ll have to decide which one would they prefer liquidated: their assets or themselves?

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  79. There is one cross-border comparison that is even scarier than San Diego and Tijuana.

    Take a look at Detroit, Michigan and Windsor, Ontario.

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  80. @Rob McX
    Even the donkeys in Tijuana have to disguise themselves as zebras to avoid being trafficked into the sex industry.

    Mexican culture sure seems to love bright colors.

    As to the TJ/San Diego border crossing, the last time we went through there…90′s… plenty of people wandering through the crawling traffic trying to sell trinkets and brightly colored Mexican wares. It’s like a gigantic bazaar filled with junk.

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  81. Eugene Robinson is such an obvious affirmative action hire.

    What entity doesn’t respect borders? Try empires, for a start.

    Does Robinson believe the British Empire gave a toss about the borders of the peoples it conquered? How about the various European empires? And then, of course, there’s the US. Did the US give a toss about the borders marking the various Indian tribes’ territories? How about the US’s great respect for Mexico’s border back in the 1840s? It’s as if the whole idea of decolonisation just passed Robinson by.

    As for his quote about Trump’s speech: “It had nothing useful to say about today’s interconnected world in which goods, people and ideas have contempt for borders.”

    Is Robinson so pig-ignorant as to be unaware that the world of the 19th century — that ghastly age of imperialism (and nationalism) — was totally interconnected in terms of goods, people and ideas? Really?

    Honestly, whatever occasional nonsense Trump happens to tweet, it’s still intellectual light years ahead of Robinson’s columns.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Bill Jones
    As Giraldi notes one of the primary causes of the tensions between India and Pakistan (still, despite the bullshit about the Norks, the most likely scenario for a nuclear war) is the fact the British used a broad nibbed pen to draw the border.

    Couldn't make this crap up, could you?
  82. SMK says: • Website
    @anon
    "China and India were the world’s leading economic powers and Europe was a relatively primitive backwater."

    I have to agree about the Chinese and the Indians. Those guys are geniuses. Maybe we should look to them for guidance on immigration policies?

    How does this refute what Trump said about Western Civilization? Robinson is so ignorant and bereft of learning that he doesn’t even know what is meant to the “west” and Western Civilization. I’m surprised he didn’t claim that the ancient Egyptians were black and that the Greeks stole all their knowledge.

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  83. Didn’t they make the mistake of colonizing a bit of Germany in 1918?

    Not the smartest thing to do.

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  84. @jim jones
    My Filipino neighbour hates what the Spanish did to the Philippines with their policy of "casta", the other day he said to me that his country would have been a better place if the British had colonized them.

    I saw something a while ago that said 70% of Gambians wanted the British back in charge.

    (Great beaches there btw )

    Read More
    • Replies: @Lex
    https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/1f/c3/f6/1fc3f6935127821dda2d9e821a4b2619--gambia.jpg

    Yikes!
  85. David says:
    @kihowi
    China invented moveable type way, way before us, then did nothing with it. They kept carving woodblocks BY HAND until the 19th century Europeans (with unfortunate disregard for borders) explained their own invention to them.

    H. G. Welles observes that before the 14th cent, there was no plentiful product to print on. The production of parchment or papyrus was so slow that the subsequent filling of it with text by hand was relatively less time consuming. Movable type was invented fairly soon (a little over a hundred years) after the introduction of industrial production of paper.

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  86. @res

    I doubt it’s deliberate in any important way.
     
    Sounds like Occam's Butterknife to me. It is hard for me to believe that a technique which is so effective is accidental.

    It’s like every shot he takes is from the hip, but also dead on target.
     
    I do like that analogy though. If I saw that in real life I would conclude:
    1. Someone has been practicing shooting from the hip.
    2. He might have come up with some good techniques to do so that are worth understanding.

    He shoots from the lip.

    Much closer to the eyes and ears in identifying the target.

    The old media really is full of barking mad whack jobs.

    Read More
  87. SMK says: • Website
    @Harry Baldwin
    Europe’s great powers held dominion over “lesser” peoples around the globe.

    We need scare quotes around lesser to remind us that those people are not lesser. They want to leave their countries, which are populated and run by people like themselves, and go live in countries built and run by white people, but in no way should we take that to suggest that there's anything lesser about them.

    By “‘lesser’ peoples’ ” he means blacks, predominantly, and Arabs. Why would anyone think of blacks who’ve blighted (Seattle, Minneapolis, etc.) or destroyed (Detroit, St. Louis, Baltimore, etc.) every large city in the United Sates as “lesser peoples”? To say nothing of Sub-Saharan Africa, Haiti, Northern Brazil, etc. Why would anyone think of Muslims (virtually all of them Arabs) who, along with blacks, are blighting and will soon destroy France, the UK, Germany, etc., as “lesser peoples”?

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  88. Anon 2 says:
    @Lagertha
    Since when am I a historical nerd? how 'bout now: Poland, like Finland, have nothing ("John Snow, you know nothing"), meaning..(Poland has no minerals - precious metals, rare Earth metals, oil...duh) there are no natural resources for international commerce. Seriously, there are only blueberry, lingonberry, bramble berry bogs....and, lots of boulders....lots of blondes, and, weirdly, a whole lotta boats.

    Actually, Poland has mountains, and wherever you have
    mountains, you also have mineral deposits. Poland has vast
    deposits of coal, huge amounts of copper and salt, some rare earths,
    and significant deposits of oil and gas, some offshore, some shale

    Read More
    • Replies: @Dan Hayes
    Anon:

    I had heard that Poland was a top potential candidate for fracking. That is consistent with the large coal deposits you have referred to.
    , @Lagertha
    Apologies! Finland still has nothing...but, be careful with what you and your Poland have in the "grand scheme of things"...:)
  89. Sam says:

    He’d know that Europe rose to dominance not by erecting walls, but by opening itself to the rest of the world — its resources, products and people

    Liberals are slowly working themselves back towards the obvious conclusions of solving the world’s problems through an acceptable humanitarian liberal imperialism. In truth this sort of mission civilisatrice was prevalent in the 19th century flavour of imperialism as Niall Ferguson has often championed.

    I look forward to the day when liberals can proudly pronounce against the protectionist anti-interventionist nativists that:

    Say what you will about Hitlerism but at least it is a globalist ethos

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  90. I love the way they mix, “goods, people and ideas”. Goods and ideas moved across borders easily even during the pre-modern times of Bush, even in the Medieval period of Reagan, even during the Dark Ages of Roosevelt.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Dave Shanken
    You made my post for me. All human societies have adopted cultural and technological ideas from other societies. In fact, Chimps have been observed learning by observing other chimp tribes. But all normal societies try to prevent outsiders from gaining access to their territories.

    The fact that the WaPo writer does not make this distinction shows that he is ignorant or that he assumes his readers are.
  91. Anon 2 says:
    @Steve Sailer
    Europe lagged China technologically before, say, 1300. But on the other hand, when the Europeans discovered something over the last thousand years, it generally stayed discovered. Around 1300, for example, Europeans were steadily inventing clocks, which economic historian David Landes called the master technology that boosted productivity by coordinating society. (In Roman times, most important political meeting happened around dawn because that was the only time that people could coordinate upon due to the help of roosters.) The Chinese had earlier invented water clocks, but they didn't really do much with them. In general, Chinese technological history is a frustrating chronicle of brilliant breakthroughs, such as drilling for natural gas, without seemingly inevitable subsequent development.

    To show the superiority of Western science in the
    ancient world you only need to mention the Antikythera
    mechanism, recovered in early 20th century from a shipwreck
    and dating back to about 100 BC. It was an analog computer
    consisting of 37 interlocking gears, designed with such
    extreme precision that human technology would not
    have been able to duplicate this feat until the 18th century.
    Based on archeological data, it was machined by Greek
    scientists in order to predict the astronomical positions
    of the seven moving objects in the sky. There are hundreds
    if not thousands of ancient shipwrecks lying on the
    Mediterranean floor. Who knows what else will be
    discovered in the coming decades. For example, Aristotle
    wrote many dialogues, like Plato, but none of them
    survive. Hence he acquired an undeserved reputation as
    a pedestrian stylist (except for his Ethics I’d say). It would
    be nice to recover some of his dialogues, and perhaps
    more ancient plays.

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  92. @kihowi
    I've lost the ability to deal with jewish logic. This whole piece is like a fever dream. No sentence is linked to any other, there's no train of thought, no conclusion built up. It just pushes the right buttons for the moderately intelligent who relate to the world through their feelings.

    Just like there are some comedians who are so unfunny that they make you forget you ever laughed, jewish logic makes you forget you ever read an honest and intelligent argument.

    “I’ve lost the ability to deal with jewish logic. This whole piece is like a fever dream. ”

    Eugene Levy Jewish, Eugene Robinson not so much.

    Read More
  93. Kylie says:

    “Having ‘contempt for borders’ ought to immediately disqualify anybody from even claiming to speak for American interests.”

    And more to the point, it also ought to disqualify anybody from even claiming American citizenship.

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  94. @celt darnell
    Eugene Robinson is such an obvious affirmative action hire.

    What entity doesn't respect borders? Try empires, for a start.

    Does Robinson believe the British Empire gave a toss about the borders of the peoples it conquered? How about the various European empires? And then, of course, there's the US. Did the US give a toss about the borders marking the various Indian tribes' territories? How about the US's great respect for Mexico's border back in the 1840s? It's as if the whole idea of decolonisation just passed Robinson by.

    As for his quote about Trump's speech: "It had nothing useful to say about today’s interconnected world in which goods, people and ideas have contempt for borders."

    Is Robinson so pig-ignorant as to be unaware that the world of the 19th century -- that ghastly age of imperialism (and nationalism) -- was totally interconnected in terms of goods, people and ideas? Really?

    Honestly, whatever occasional nonsense Trump happens to tweet, it's still intellectual light years ahead of Robinson's columns.

    As Giraldi notes one of the primary causes of the tensions between India and Pakistan (still, despite the bullshit about the Norks, the most likely scenario for a nuclear war) is the fact the British used a broad nibbed pen to draw the border.

    Couldn’t make this crap up, could you?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Dan Hayes
    Bill Jones:

    As usual, whenever Britain left one of their former colonies they always left two factions at each other throats.

    One dictum the Brits learned from their studies of Rome at Oxford/Cambridge was the utility of the dictum: Divide and Conquer!
  95. Bill P says:
    @Steve Sailer
    Europe lagged China technologically before, say, 1300. But on the other hand, when the Europeans discovered something over the last thousand years, it generally stayed discovered. Around 1300, for example, Europeans were steadily inventing clocks, which economic historian David Landes called the master technology that boosted productivity by coordinating society. (In Roman times, most important political meeting happened around dawn because that was the only time that people could coordinate upon due to the help of roosters.) The Chinese had earlier invented water clocks, but they didn't really do much with them. In general, Chinese technological history is a frustrating chronicle of brilliant breakthroughs, such as drilling for natural gas, without seemingly inevitable subsequent development.

    It’s due to a fundamental flaw in China’s culture and philosophy, namely its legal philosophy.

    The Romans gave the world the most advanced civil law ever, because they focused their philosophical efforts on the law, and made extremely important innovations in this field that allowed Europeans to slowly build up a functional market economy that could operate with a large degree of independence from the state.

    Without a well-developed legal system, the incentives for financing and supporting private innovation melt away, leaving the state a monopoly over such efforts. If you are an inventor, the state can freely steal your work, and if you are a private citizen looking to profit from some innovation you have no legal guarantee that your investment will be returned.

    If you take Johann Guenberg for example, his project involved a lot of financing and collaboration, which led to some messy lawsuits over the years. But at least everyone involved had the opportunity to plead their case in court. Without that a priori guarantee, Gutenberg’s project wouldn’t have received the necessary investment.

    If there had been a Chinese version of Gutenberg, he would have been entirely at the mercy of officials, who could have cited any number of edicts to either require him to hand over his work to the local strongman or to seize any funding for their own personal projects, leaving him short of capital. There was no concept of rule of law.

    Under this system, who would bother to innovate or invest?

    China has not (yet) changed in this regard.

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  96. Lowe says:
    @CK
    If you think his shots are all "from the hip" you are "misunderestimating" his ability to understand his targets and when where and how to trigger them.
    I am aware that the acceptable meme is that the President is " dumb" "irrational",
    and a whole lot of other currently fashionable terms of derision.
    On the other hand, 19 published books by him, 36 books about him, several billion $ in assets,
    MBA from Wharton.

    Trump does not have an MBA.

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  97. @Patrick Harris
    Depends on the country you're talking about and the criteria you're using, but 1300 is a bit early, at least for China. To take merely one example, no European city reached the size of Asian cities until the 18th century, and even then London was singular, with Paris a distant second. China had a number of cities that size or larger. It has also had a highly sophisticated bureaucratic apparatus that no European state attained until the Early Modern period. It is probably true that Europe was more *dynamic* than China after 1300 or so.

    Tenochtitlan was absolutely mega when Cortes called in in 1530, 212,500, or more. London was a piddling (estimated) 50,000 in 1530, and only grew to ca. 225,000 by 1605. Mexico City is now pretty much the same size population as That London, just under 9 million. I wonder which was, and is, more ‘advanced’? At least London had restricted its human sacrifices to a few hardnosed religious types by that time.
    tl;dr city size is a thoroughly bad metric, verging on dishonest, trying to rank North Atlantic island carrying capacities with those of tropical paradises. They’ll be telling me next that Lagos is more advanced than Copenhagen.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Patrick Harris
    No tropical paradises were involved in the comparison. In an agricultural society, you need a food surplus and networks of long distance trade to support very large urban centers, and those urban centers in turn provide economic specialization that allows all sorts of technological and cultural refinements. Population as a mere number isn't the point.
  98. dr kill says:
    @Wazoo
    Western Europe is starting to feel increasingly unsafe. A disaster of epic proportions is looming, and people are starting to feel it. Expect a big uptick in white flight over the next few years as the smarter and wealthier people take action. The early deciders will benefit most - they'll be able to liquidate their assets without major losses. Everyone else is going to be screwed.

    Here in Palm Beach County, it’s already happening.

    Read More
  99. Clyde says:
    @Bugg
    Robinson is such a silly goose he doesn't know tomatoes are a New World import to Italy, as were potatoes to Ireland. Julius Caesar never tasted a tomato, nor did St. Patrick eat a potato. Next you will tell him the American India...Native Americans never rode horses until the evil white man showed up. Perhaps when you spend your academic career babbling about ethnic studies simple factual world history is not in your syllabus.

    Robinson is such a silly goose he doesn’t know tomatoes are a New World import to Italy, as were potatoes to Ireland. Julius Caesar never tasted a tomato, nor did St. Patrick eat a potato.

    No one really cares because no one thinks about this. I doubt I would like much of Italian cuisine minus the tomato. I like kim chi and usually have some in the refrigerator. But Koreans had no red pepper spiced kim chi before they got hot peppers from the New World. Most likely via the Portuguese even if indirectly. The Portuguese brought them to Goa, they spread out from there. But once again no one cares because modern people prefer being ahistorical. Same as they would not know or care that there has never been a society that had gay marriage for an extended time. Degenerate Roman emperors and their regimes do not count.

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    • Replies: @Lurker

    No one really cares because no one thinks about this
     
    And no one is encouraged to either.

    Otherwise the whole idea of cultural appropriation would collapse in a cloud of hypocrisy and stupidity.
  100. Anon 2 says:
    @Steve Sailer
    Europe lagged China technologically before, say, 1300. But on the other hand, when the Europeans discovered something over the last thousand years, it generally stayed discovered. Around 1300, for example, Europeans were steadily inventing clocks, which economic historian David Landes called the master technology that boosted productivity by coordinating society. (In Roman times, most important political meeting happened around dawn because that was the only time that people could coordinate upon due to the help of roosters.) The Chinese had earlier invented water clocks, but they didn't really do much with them. In general, Chinese technological history is a frustrating chronicle of brilliant breakthroughs, such as drilling for natural gas, without seemingly inevitable subsequent development.

    One reason why science developed most rapidly
    in the West is monotheism (esp. Christian monotheism).
    In Christianity, unlike in various types of polytheisms
    typical of India or China, there is only one Lawgiver
    who imposes laws of nature on the Universe. For example,
    the law of the conservation of energy had its origin in
    theology (or at least was buttressed by theology): what
    God creates cannot disappear, hence if God created bodies
    in motion, their motion cannot vanish.

    In polytheism one has many gods and therefore many
    conflicting wills. It’s not clear how this could result in
    a single set of, say, laws of motion. Moreover, in
    Christian monotheism, unlike in various pantheisms one
    finds in Asia, the world is separate from God, and hence is not
    divine, and therefore one does not commit blasphemy by making
    such a world an object of study.

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  101. jack ryan says: • Website

    “Wait … What? …

    The Poles didn’t have any colonies on other continents?

    Yeah, well … Poles are still white so that makes them guilty of White Guilt.”

    I respond:

    Yeah, but the Poles are still heavily politically incorrect because they led the (successful) Western fight to resist defeat:

    a) Islamic, Turkish conquest of Central Western Europe – stopped at the Gates of Vienna and.
    b) Resisting defeated Soviet Communist invasion of Central Western Europe in 1921

    After Soviets conquered all of Eastern Europe, the Poles and Hungarians were the strongest resisters.

    Plus Polish Pope John Paul wasn’t in to Liberation Theology or Rolling Stone Magazine pop Liberal, Muslim boot licking causes. Pope John Paul got in the face of chic Nicauraguan Sandinista Catholic priests.

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  102. Dan Hayes says:
    @Anon 2
    Actually, Poland has mountains, and wherever you have
    mountains, you also have mineral deposits. Poland has vast
    deposits of coal, huge amounts of copper and salt, some rare earths,
    and significant deposits of oil and gas, some offshore, some shale

    Anon:

    I had heard that Poland was a top potential candidate for fracking. That is consistent with the large coal deposits you have referred to.

    Read More
  103. Dan Hayes says:
    @Bill Jones
    As Giraldi notes one of the primary causes of the tensions between India and Pakistan (still, despite the bullshit about the Norks, the most likely scenario for a nuclear war) is the fact the British used a broad nibbed pen to draw the border.

    Couldn't make this crap up, could you?

    Bill Jones:

    As usual, whenever Britain left one of their former colonies they always left two factions at each other throats.

    One dictum the Brits learned from their studies of Rome at Oxford/Cambridge was the utility of the dictum: Divide and Conquer!

    Read More
    • Replies: @Lurker
    I can understand the dividing *and* conquering. I can understand dividing a dangerous rival state nearby. But what did Britain have to gain from the division of India after 1947?

    If that were the case why not propose the return of the earlier smaller constituent states? India would then be a patchwork of small countries again.

  104. Olorin says:
    @Hubbub
    I knew a guy named Eugene once. He lived in a different world from the rest of humanity, too.

    I know a town named Eugene.

    Same problem.

    Hm. An hypothesis rises.

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  105. Lot says:
    @AM

    Here is a picture of North of the Border: the par 3 sixth hole at Torrey Pines North, a San Diego municipal golf course.
     
    My Dad watches golf on TV, the game part of which I confess I find boring. However, almost always the actual courses are eye candy. They're beautiful to see and to watch the players play.

    I don't keep score when I golf (okay, a little). But I love being out there and I love when I get the occasional shot that looks just like it does when the pros do it. The difference between me and the pros being the frequency of said shots. :)

    To able to play on those courses - that's just amazing.

    Torrey Pines is pretty cheap for San Diego city residents, $29 to $78 per round depending on time and age, plus a $30 booking fee.

    https://www.sandiego.gov/park-and-recreation/golf/torreypines/reservations/fees

    A round for non-residents starts around $120.

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  106. martin2 says:

    A lot of people don’t appreciate the extent to which intellectual jealousy affects non-white attitudes. I didn’t…

    I was teaching an almost entirely non-white class many years ago on “Research Methods”, – elementary statistics mainly. But I included an essay type question that had to do with the scientific method and the notion of “falsifiability” according to Professor Popper. I spoke at length about Copernicus and his refutation of the earth centred Universe and how the earlier astronomers had tried to keep the Earth at the centre, despite the anomalous motions of the planets, by postulating epicycles and deferents and God knows what else. It is a fascinating story, one of the greatest ever told, and of course all the names I mentioned were those of white European men: Copernicus, Galileo, Brahe, Kepler, and Newton.

    I was surprised that the students did not share the same enthusiasm for the material as I did. They seemed impatient and restless. In my other lectures with the same class, covering routine statistical concepts such as correlation and regression and hypothesis testing, they had been docile in comparison. Then one of the black students spoke up: “I am sure that there were scientists from Africa or other parts of the world that made the same discoveries, why don’t you mention them?” I cannot remember what I said in response.

    So the Copernican Revolution was not their history, and they did not want to hear about it, since I suppose it was another reminder of superior white accomplishment. Yet at the time it never crossed my mind that the students would take umbrage at the background of the main protagonists. If Copernicus had been black I would have told the story no differently.

    Of course non-whites will want to disparage white achievements in the arts and sciences. Of course they will play up Islamic science during the European Dark Ages, or the Indians coming up with place value as if that’s the whole of mathematics, or will try to make out that the British or French Empires were unmitigated evil. It is all explained by the twin concepts of envy and humiliation.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anon 2
    Intellectual jealousy toward the West is an important
    factor in provoking anti-white attitudes. I noticed this
    myself when teaching a class that included elements of
    the history of science. Fortunately, most of my class
    was white but it seems like mentioning people like
    Copernicus, Galileo, Newton, or Darwin is experienced
    by black students as a direct assault on their (rather high)
    self-esteem. East Indian students also seem to experience
    some of this unease. With Chinese students it's hard to tell
    because, conforming to the stereotype, they appear more
    inscrutable, but since Newton's three Laws of Motion could
    only be discovered once, they must be asking themselves
    why the laws of motion are not known as, say, Wang's Laws
    of Motion, i.e., why the Chinese culture, despite its antiquity,
    was so unsophisticated that it was unable to discover something
    so basic as the laws of motion, i.e., the law of inertia, F = ma, and
    the law of action and reaction.
    I already mentioned polytheism as one reason but there are
    others.
  107. @cwhatfuture
    I love the way they mix, "goods, people and ideas". Goods and ideas moved across borders easily even during the pre-modern times of Bush, even in the Medieval period of Reagan, even during the Dark Ages of Roosevelt.

    You made my post for me. All human societies have adopted cultural and technological ideas from other societies. In fact, Chimps have been observed learning by observing other chimp tribes. But all normal societies try to prevent outsiders from gaining access to their territories.

    The fact that the WaPo writer does not make this distinction shows that he is ignorant or that he assumes his readers are.

    Read More
  108. Dave Pinsen says: • Website
    @BowieCapitalist
    I would also note that it's not even entirely clear that the majority of the past 2000 years India and China were way above the European backwater. Certainly almost nobody would argue that Europe led the past 500 years. By 1400 AD Europe was clearly ahead of India and China as well. By the 1300s Europe was making reading glasses and advanced astronomical clocks. I think a solid argument can even be mase that Europe was about equal or more advanced than China and India back to the 1200s or 1100s.

    The Early Roman Empire was also very advanced for the time period and it was at or above China and India for 300, 400 years. Possibly more in the eastern Roman empire.

    To be fair there were also hundreds of years during the time period qhere China and even India were more advances than Europe, but its not as simple as the writer makes it out.

    India wasn’t one country until last century. That’s a point Portugal made when India demanded Goa back.

    Goa was wealthy when Vasco da Gama got there (the local king famously mocked the shabby trade goods of the Portuguese), but that wasn’t due to innovation so much as it was to it being well-situated as an entrepôt.

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  109. @Patrick Harris
    Depends on the country you're talking about and the criteria you're using, but 1300 is a bit early, at least for China. To take merely one example, no European city reached the size of Asian cities until the 18th century, and even then London was singular, with Paris a distant second. China had a number of cities that size or larger. It has also had a highly sophisticated bureaucratic apparatus that no European state attained until the Early Modern period. It is probably true that Europe was more *dynamic* than China after 1300 or so.

    Hmm … so China invented urban crowding and bureaucratic overreach first. Well done China!

    Irrespective of technical civilizational milestones, (e.g., moveable type, gunpowder: both of which were abortive in China and revolutionary in the West), except for the depths of the Dark Ages (and even then it is debatable), the average European probably had a higher standard of living than the average Chinese or Indian. And this in turn is reduceable to one single factor: the West avoided living at the Malthusian Limit.

    Fortunately, some forward-thinking progressives have had the idea of importing massive numbers of third-worlders so that after millennia of undeservedly forging ahead, the West can finally run headlong into the Wall of Malthus.

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    • Replies: @ScarletNumber
    The Chinese invented gunpowder, but used it for fireworks
  110. @candid_observer
    It is remarkable how Trump succeeds in provoking his opponents into self-revealing and so self-destructive behavior. Even when he seems to be saying something a bit crazy, he manages to get a response from his enemies that's a dozen times crazier.

    It's just freaky.

    There's obviously a method to the madness, but I confess I haven't figured it out yet. I doubt it's deliberate in any important way. It's like every shot he takes is from the hip, but also dead on target.

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  111. To all those professing astonishment at this journalist’s historical illiteracy, illogic and hypocrisy: are we really astonished? Don’t we all know what’s really going on here?

    They hate us and want us dead. Trump is an indication we might fight back. They are trying to tamp down the contagion before it spreads.

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  112. @Patrick Harris
    Depends on the country you're talking about and the criteria you're using, but 1300 is a bit early, at least for China. To take merely one example, no European city reached the size of Asian cities until the 18th century, and even then London was singular, with Paris a distant second. China had a number of cities that size or larger. It has also had a highly sophisticated bureaucratic apparatus that no European state attained until the Early Modern period. It is probably true that Europe was more *dynamic* than China after 1300 or so.

    Europe lagged China technologically before, say, 1300. But on the other hand, when the Europeans discovered something over the last thousand years, it generally stayed discovered. Around 1300, for example, Europeans were steadily inventing clocks, which economic historian David Landes called the master technology that boosted productivity by coordinating society. (In Roman times, most important political meeting happened around dawn because that was the only time that people could coordinate upon due to the help of roosters.) The Chinese had earlier invented water clocks, but they didn’t really do much with them. In general, Chinese technological history is a frustrating chronicle of brilliant breakthroughs, such as drilling for natural gas, without seemingly inevitable subsequent development.

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    • Replies: @Desiderius
    See also the Chinese Treasure Fleet.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_treasure_ship
  113. Dave Pinsen says: • Website
    @Steve Sailer
    Europe lagged China technologically before, say, 1300. But on the other hand, when the Europeans discovered something over the last thousand years, it generally stayed discovered. Around 1300, for example, Europeans were steadily inventing clocks, which economic historian David Landes called the master technology that boosted productivity by coordinating society. (In Roman times, most important political meeting happened around dawn because that was the only time that people could coordinate upon due to the help of roosters.) The Chinese had earlier invented water clocks, but they didn't really do much with them. In general, Chinese technological history is a frustrating chronicle of brilliant breakthroughs, such as drilling for natural gas, without seemingly inevitable subsequent development.

    Clocks were also hugely important for navigation, in helping determine longitude. James Cook had three of the most advanced ones of the day on his ship.

    Another example of a Chinese technological breakthrough that wasn’t followed up on was Zheng He’s fleet of ocean-going ships.

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  114. @Patrick Harris
    Depends on the country you're talking about and the criteria you're using, but 1300 is a bit early, at least for China. To take merely one example, no European city reached the size of Asian cities until the 18th century, and even then London was singular, with Paris a distant second. China had a number of cities that size or larger. It has also had a highly sophisticated bureaucratic apparatus that no European state attained until the Early Modern period. It is probably true that Europe was more *dynamic* than China after 1300 or so.

    How populous a city (or indeed an empire) may be and how complicated a bureaucracy may be have sod all to do with civilisational advancement. By your lights California’s DMV outshines the Manhattan Project and Bangalore is preferable to Del Mar.

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    • Replies: @Patrick Harris
    Mere numbers don't make civilizational acheivement, but a certain level of urbanization is necessary for the degree of specialization and leisure that has produced that West's great breakthroughs. There is no Renaissance, Enlightenment, or Industrial Revolution without Florence, Paris, or Manchester (and though Florence wasn't a huge place itself, Northern Italy was far more urbanized than the European norm at the time).
  115. Thomas says:

    This is why Poland really makes them mad: unlike Germany, it doesn’t insist on destroying itself as penance for being on the wrong side of The Most Important Thing to Happen Ever.

    http://www.haaretz.com/us-news/1.800025

    “Analysis Trump Sidesteps Jewish Victims of Holocaust, Helps Polish Government Rewrite History,” Haaretz

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  116. Lurker says:
    @Pepe le Frogski
    Hey Robinson, how about I demonstrate my contempt for the borders of your house by breaking down the door, pooping on the floor, and living off the contents of your fridge for the indefinite future? It'll be ok, since I'll share my Great Aunt Merle's pasta sauce recipe with you.

    It’ll be ok, since I’ll share my Great Aunt Merle’s pasta sauce recipe with you.

    You say that. But if Robinson actually used the recipe then it would be cultural appropriation and he would be in trouble.

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  117. Lurker says:
    @Stealth
    And these are the people who label us traitors for calling their Russia narriative bogus. With patriots like these, who needs foreign enemies?

    If the Russia BS were true then surely it would be the Russians showing righteous contempt for US borders.

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  118. @Steve Sailer
    Europe lagged China technologically before, say, 1300. But on the other hand, when the Europeans discovered something over the last thousand years, it generally stayed discovered. Around 1300, for example, Europeans were steadily inventing clocks, which economic historian David Landes called the master technology that boosted productivity by coordinating society. (In Roman times, most important political meeting happened around dawn because that was the only time that people could coordinate upon due to the help of roosters.) The Chinese had earlier invented water clocks, but they didn't really do much with them. In general, Chinese technological history is a frustrating chronicle of brilliant breakthroughs, such as drilling for natural gas, without seemingly inevitable subsequent development.

    See also the Chinese Treasure Fleet.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_treasure_ship

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  119. Lurker says:
    @Dan Hayes
    Bill Jones:

    As usual, whenever Britain left one of their former colonies they always left two factions at each other throats.

    One dictum the Brits learned from their studies of Rome at Oxford/Cambridge was the utility of the dictum: Divide and Conquer!

    I can understand the dividing *and* conquering. I can understand dividing a dangerous rival state nearby. But what did Britain have to gain from the division of India after 1947?

    If that were the case why not propose the return of the earlier smaller constituent states? India would then be a patchwork of small countries again.

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  120. Lurker says:
    @Clyde

    Robinson is such a silly goose he doesn’t know tomatoes are a New World import to Italy, as were potatoes to Ireland. Julius Caesar never tasted a tomato, nor did St. Patrick eat a potato.
     
    No one really cares because no one thinks about this. I doubt I would like much of Italian cuisine minus the tomato. I like kim chi and usually have some in the refrigerator. But Koreans had no red pepper spiced kim chi before they got hot peppers from the New World. Most likely via the Portuguese even if indirectly. The Portuguese brought them to Goa, they spread out from there. But once again no one cares because modern people prefer being ahistorical. Same as they would not know or care that there has never been a society that had gay marriage for an extended time. Degenerate Roman emperors and their regimes do not count.

    No one really cares because no one thinks about this

    And no one is encouraged to either.

    Otherwise the whole idea of cultural appropriation would collapse in a cloud of hypocrisy and stupidity.

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  121. @anon
    We did let in other people's resources and products, sure. But his speech didn't say anything against that.

    As far as letting in other people, I'm not sure what he means, unless he means slavery. Does he mean slavery? Is Eugene Robinson basically admitting that slavery was a good thing? Which, considering that it's why Eugene Robinson is in the West, and not living amongst those people who are still wanting to come to the West, certainly worked out to his benefit, at least.

    The idea that the Trans-Atlantic Slave Trade actually benefitted today’s African-Americans was the subject of a terrific book back in the 1990′s: Keith Richburg’s “Out of America: A Black Man Confronts Africa”.

    Richburg candidly admitted that he was glad his ancestors were forcibly brought to America – he lives here now, rather than in Africa. He describes the horror, the ugliness, the baseness of life in contemporary Africa in the most stunning and disturbing terms.

    Needless to say, Richburg’s thesis has been given zero credence by the mainstream media. They’ve done their best to suppress, ignore and distort Richburg’s thesis.

    https://www.amazon.com/Out-America-Black-Confronts-Africa/dp/0465001882

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    • Replies: @dr kill
    A wonderful, provocative read. Everyone should read it.
  122. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer

    Eugene Robinson is an ignorant hick. His tomato comment proves this.

    But in his defense this is the typical American red sauce experience of all things “Italian”…. because our wop dago immis came from far southern Italy.

    Funny and ironic because American tourists to Italy visit the white sauce North as opposed to the red sauce South in a ratio of about 1000:1.

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  123. anonymous says: • Disclaimer

    “Europe lagged China technologically before, say, 1300. But on the other hand, when the Europeans discovered something over the last thousand years, it generally stayed discovered.”

    I’ve started to wonder if this bit about Europe technologically lagging is actually true, or true in the sense of the aggregate of all the little developments that make up across-the-board technology advances. Maybe China was better, due to a larger population, of collecting demonstrations of a technique (for instance, a water compass), but maybe Europe was actually better at developing a technological infrastructure that led to the continual need to solve a class of problems (requiring continual effort that compounded):

    From two earlier isteve posts (with minor edits):

    anonymous says: March 4, 2017 at 10:41 pm GMT:

    “…by the mid-11th century, the Viking fleet… carried roughly one million square meters of sail, requiring the equivalent of all the wool produced in one year by about two million sheep…

    …Outfitting a single warship… and its crew might have required the wool of 1,000 sheep or more…

    …Textile archaeologist Jørgensen says the introduction of sails… (was a big deal, [ed.])

    …On Scotland’s Orkney Islands …evidence of domesticated sheep dating back about 5,000 years…

    … their unusual coat was a key element in making woolen sails… The sheep are double-coated…”

    anonymous says: March 5, 2017 at 7:16 pm GMT:

    “Viking woollen square-sails and fabric cover factor”, Bill Cooke, Carol Christiansen, Lena Hammarlund, The International Journal of Nautical Archaeology, (2002) 31.2: 202–210:

    “…The Nordmore sail had been impregnated with a resin like finish and this tied-in with comments in the literature about smorring (Andersen, 1995). Smorring involves a two-stage process of, firstly, brushing into the fabric an emulsion of water, horse fat, (from beneath the mane) and ochre. This is allowed to dry and then hot liquid beef tallow is rubbed and smoothed into the sail. This process was used twice… Smorring dramatically reduces the airflow… can be ‘tuned’ down to 4 cm/sec…

    …The inclusion of ochre in the mix is also of significance. …acts as a good filler inhibiting air flow by filling the voids in the fabric… has anti-bacterial properties which help to prevent the wet sail from rotting…

    …high cover factor woollen square-sails could beat at 66 degrees into the wind and most likely out-perform linen and hemp sails.”

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  124. anonymous says: • Disclaimer

    More early European tech:

    Falun Mine:

    “…a mine in Falun, Sweden, that operated for a millennium from the 10th century to 1992. It produced as much as two thirds of Europe’s copper needs

    …mining operations started sometime around the year 1000. No significant activities had begun before 850, but the mine was definitely operating by 1080…

    …developed the methods and technology used for mining…

    …a large part of the revenues for the Swedish state in the coming centuries…

    Sweden had a virtual monopoly on copper which it retained throughout the 17th century. The only other country with a comparable copper output was Japan, but European imports from Japan were insignificant…

    “For the production of copper Sweden has always been like a mother, and although in many places within and without Europe some copper is extracted it counts for nothing next to the abundance of Swedish copper”.

    …By modern standards, however, the output was not large. Peak production barely reached 3,000 tonnes of copper per year…”

    Read More
    • Replies: @Expletive Deleted
    cough cough Cornwall, Wales, Cumbria and a bit of Galloway cough
    Since the early bronze age, but only possible with the (local) development of steam engines and pumps to go right down into it.
    Copper's only good for pots&pans, ships' bottoms and roofing without the tin, though. Gunmetal is bronze, so all the copper in the world isn't going to arm your ships. How much tin does Sweden have?

    From 1750 to 1850 copper was the most important mineral in the region.Cornwall's copper output dominated the world’s copper markets.
     

    Despite the collapse of the copper mining industry in 1866, the tin industry was still riding high producing 10,000 tons of tin a year - about half the world's production. At one time Cornwall boasted 2,000 tin mines and it was a world leader in tin production.
     
    http://www.miningartifacts.org/English-Mines.html
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mining_in_Cornwall_and_Devon
    , @PV van der Byl
    And European legal advances as well. Falun's owner, Stora Kopparberg, is the world's oldest business corporation (1347). It is still around.
  125. Anon 2 says:
    @martin2
    A lot of people don't appreciate the extent to which intellectual jealousy affects non-white attitudes. I didn't...

    I was teaching an almost entirely non-white class many years ago on "Research Methods", - elementary statistics mainly. But I included an essay type question that had to do with the scientific method and the notion of "falsifiability" according to Professor Popper. I spoke at length about Copernicus and his refutation of the earth centred Universe and how the earlier astronomers had tried to keep the Earth at the centre, despite the anomalous motions of the planets, by postulating epicycles and deferents and God knows what else. It is a fascinating story, one of the greatest ever told, and of course all the names I mentioned were those of white European men: Copernicus, Galileo, Brahe, Kepler, and Newton.

    I was surprised that the students did not share the same enthusiasm for the material as I did. They seemed impatient and restless. In my other lectures with the same class, covering routine statistical concepts such as correlation and regression and hypothesis testing, they had been docile in comparison. Then one of the black students spoke up: "I am sure that there were scientists from Africa or other parts of the world that made the same discoveries, why don't you mention them?" I cannot remember what I said in response.

    So the Copernican Revolution was not their history, and they did not want to hear about it, since I suppose it was another reminder of superior white accomplishment. Yet at the time it never crossed my mind that the students would take umbrage at the background of the main protagonists. If Copernicus had been black I would have told the story no differently.

    Of course non-whites will want to disparage white achievements in the arts and sciences. Of course they will play up Islamic science during the European Dark Ages, or the Indians coming up with place value as if that's the whole of mathematics, or will try to make out that the British or French Empires were unmitigated evil. It is all explained by the twin concepts of envy and humiliation.

    Intellectual jealousy toward the West is an important
    factor in provoking anti-white attitudes. I noticed this
    myself when teaching a class that included elements of
    the history of science. Fortunately, most of my class
    was white but it seems like mentioning people like
    Copernicus, Galileo, Newton, or Darwin is experienced
    by black students as a direct assault on their (rather high)
    self-esteem. East Indian students also seem to experience
    some of this unease. With Chinese students it’s hard to tell
    because, conforming to the stereotype, they appear more
    inscrutable, but since Newton’s three Laws of Motion could
    only be discovered once, they must be asking themselves
    why the laws of motion are not known as, say, Wang’s Laws
    of Motion, i.e., why the Chinese culture, despite its antiquity,
    was so unsophisticated that it was unable to discover something
    so basic as the laws of motion, i.e., the law of inertia, F = ma, and
    the law of action and reaction.
    I already mentioned polytheism as one reason but there are
    others.

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  126. @Anonymous
    Europe was more advanced than China and India from 1300-2017 and in the Roman Empire from 17-330, and atleast about equal in even more years, so I don't think his characterization that Europe was a backwater compared to them for most of the past 2000 years is very fair.

    I seem to recall that lack of respect for borders had something to do with that 330 A.D. number…

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  127. @Patrick Harris
    Depends on the country you're talking about and the criteria you're using, but 1300 is a bit early, at least for China. To take merely one example, no European city reached the size of Asian cities until the 18th century, and even then London was singular, with Paris a distant second. China had a number of cities that size or larger. It has also had a highly sophisticated bureaucratic apparatus that no European state attained until the Early Modern period. It is probably true that Europe was more *dynamic* than China after 1300 or so.

    no European city reached the size of Asian cities until the 18th century

    Whatever. Delhi (sorry, I mean Kolkata) has 17 million people. Thats an order of magnitude more population than most American cities. What does that prove? A fertile flood plain can support millions of peasant subsistence farmers. There is more to civilization than toilet paper sales (ok, I know, but you know what I mean).

    River discharge in m3/sec:
    Yangtze 30,166
    Ganges 16,648
    Rhine 2,900
    Seine 560
    Thames 66

    It’s not so incredible that Shanghai was more populous than London or Paris.

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  128. dr kill says:
    @Paul Jolliffe
    The idea that the Trans-Atlantic Slave Trade actually benefitted today's African-Americans was the subject of a terrific book back in the 1990's: Keith Richburg's "Out of America: A Black Man Confronts Africa".

    Richburg candidly admitted that he was glad his ancestors were forcibly brought to America - he lives here now, rather than in Africa. He describes the horror, the ugliness, the baseness of life in contemporary Africa in the most stunning and disturbing terms.

    Needless to say, Richburg's thesis has been given zero credence by the mainstream media. They've done their best to suppress, ignore and distort Richburg's thesis.

    https://www.amazon.com/Out-America-Black-Confronts-Africa/dp/0465001882

    A wonderful, provocative read. Everyone should read it.

    Read More
  129. Svigor says:

    Depends on the country you’re talking about and the criteria you’re using, but 1300 is a bit early, at least for China. To take merely one example, no European city reached the size of Asian cities until the 18th century, and even then London was singular, with Paris a distant second. China had a number of cities that size or larger. It has also had a highly sophisticated bureaucratic apparatus that no European state attained until the Early Modern period. It is probably true that Europe was more *dynamic* than China after 1300 or so.

    Can we have a couple of examples that aren’t depressing?

    (I managed to leave out the relevant quote last time)

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  130. @anonymous
    More early European tech:

    Falun Mine:


    "...a mine in Falun, Sweden, that operated for a millennium from the 10th century to 1992. It produced as much as two thirds of Europe's copper needs...

    ...mining operations started sometime around the year 1000. No significant activities had begun before 850, but the mine was definitely operating by 1080...

    ...developed the methods and technology used for mining...

    ...a large part of the revenues for the Swedish state in the coming centuries...

    ...Sweden had a virtual monopoly on copper which it retained throughout the 17th century. The only other country with a comparable copper output was Japan, but European imports from Japan were insignificant...

    "For the production of copper Sweden has always been like a mother, and although in many places within and without Europe some copper is extracted it counts for nothing next to the abundance of Swedish copper".

    ...By modern standards, however, the output was not large. Peak production barely reached 3,000 tonnes of copper per year..."

     

    cough cough Cornwall, Wales, Cumbria and a bit of Galloway cough
    Since the early bronze age, but only possible with the (local) development of steam engines and pumps to go right down into it.
    Copper’s only good for pots&pans, ships’ bottoms and roofing without the tin, though. Gunmetal is bronze, so all the copper in the world isn’t going to arm your ships. How much tin does Sweden have?

    From 1750 to 1850 copper was the most important mineral in the region.Cornwall’s copper output dominated the world’s copper markets.

    Despite the collapse of the copper mining industry in 1866, the tin industry was still riding high producing 10,000 tons of tin a year – about half the world’s production. At one time Cornwall boasted 2,000 tin mines and it was a world leader in tin production.

    http://www.miningartifacts.org/English-Mines.html

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mining_in_Cornwall_and_Devon

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  131. Lex says:
    @Bill Jones
    I saw something a while ago that said 70% of Gambians wanted the British back in charge.

    (Great beaches there btw )

    Yikes!

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  132. @Hell_Is_Like_Newark
    I have talked to Filipinos that wished their country was still a territory of the USA.

    Yes, the Philippine Statehood Movement was actually registered as a political party.

    Although it was never a serious contender for the Presidency, they did have a couple of Congressmen and the party organization was run by a retired Colonel for years.

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  133. @anonymous
    More early European tech:

    Falun Mine:


    "...a mine in Falun, Sweden, that operated for a millennium from the 10th century to 1992. It produced as much as two thirds of Europe's copper needs...

    ...mining operations started sometime around the year 1000. No significant activities had begun before 850, but the mine was definitely operating by 1080...

    ...developed the methods and technology used for mining...

    ...a large part of the revenues for the Swedish state in the coming centuries...

    ...Sweden had a virtual monopoly on copper which it retained throughout the 17th century. The only other country with a comparable copper output was Japan, but European imports from Japan were insignificant...

    "For the production of copper Sweden has always been like a mother, and although in many places within and without Europe some copper is extracted it counts for nothing next to the abundance of Swedish copper".

    ...By modern standards, however, the output was not large. Peak production barely reached 3,000 tonnes of copper per year..."

     

    And European legal advances as well. Falun’s owner, Stora Kopparberg, is the world’s oldest business corporation (1347). It is still around.

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  134. Lex says:
    @Peter Akuleyev
    Poland had no borders from 1795 to 1918 and from 1939-44 and it totally sucked ass both times

    Not both times. Actually the Polish lands all grew much richer from 1795 to 1918. Just like the rest of Western Europe. Even Russian dominated Poland industrialized at a much faster rate than Russian proper. Warsaw became the gem of central Europe under the Tsars. Prussian Poland did even better economically, and Habsburg ruled-Poland enjoyed a cultural rennaissance even while the Ukrainian and Jewish populations were suffering under the lash of the ethnic Polish aristocracy.

    Every part of Europe was developing at that time, doesn’t mean it wasn’t dark period especially for hundreds of thousands sent to Siberia.

    And Jews grew richer in late 19th century than they ever were in Poland. Only after peasantry started to cooperate and educate themselves their situation worsened(you can read about it in Jan Słomka diaries).

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  135. @Almost Missouri
    Hmm ... so China invented urban crowding and bureaucratic overreach first. Well done China!

    Irrespective of technical civilizational milestones, (e.g., moveable type, gunpowder: both of which were abortive in China and revolutionary in the West), except for the depths of the Dark Ages (and even then it is debatable), the average European probably had a higher standard of living than the average Chinese or Indian. And this in turn is reduceable to one single factor: the West avoided living at the Malthusian Limit.

    Fortunately, some forward-thinking progressives have had the idea of importing massive numbers of third-worlders so that after millennia of undeservedly forging ahead, the West can finally run headlong into the Wall of Malthus.

    The Chinese invented gunpowder, but used it for fireworks

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  136. anonymous says: • Disclaimer

    “The Chinese invented gunpowder, but used it for fireworks”

    It takes more than just gunpowder, you also need metallurgy.

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  137. anonymous says: • Disclaimer

    Technology development in Northern Europe stretches back into the Bronze Age and seems to have been connected with that of the Mediterranean world since those times… it might all be connected:

    Amber Road:

    “The Amber Road was an ancient trade route for the transfer of amber from coastal areas of the North Sea and the Baltic Sea to the Mediterranean Sea. Prehistoric trade routes between Northern and Southern Europe were defined by the amber trade….

    …From at least the sixteenth century BC, amber was moved from Northern Europe to the Mediterranean area. The breast ornament of the Egyptian pharaoh Tutankhamen (ca. 1333-1324 BC) contains large Baltic amber beads…

    …In Scandinavia the amber road probably gave rise to the thriving Nordic Bronze Age culture, bringing influences from the Mediterranean Sea to the northernmost countries of Europe…”

    “3600-year-old Swedish Axes Were Made With Copper From Cyprus”, Haaretz, Philippe Bohstrom May 11, 2016:

    “Bronze tools found in Sweden dating from 3,600 years ago were made using copper from the Mediterranean, archaeologists have shown…

    …The precious copper was exchanged for Nordic amber, which was as cherished as gold in Mycenaean Greece and in the prehistoric Middle East…

    …The ancient Cypriot copper industry produced relatively pure stuff…

    …The copper trade around the Mediterranean Sea is evident from around 1550 BCE – but going by the bronze finds dating to about that same time in Scandinavia, it apparently began earlier….

    …”Bronze was as valuable a raw material as oil is today,”… It and amber were the twin engines of the Bronze Age economy…”

    “Metals in Bronze Age Weapons Discovered in Sweden Came from Distant Lands”, Mark Miller, Ancient Origins, 13 May, 2016:

    “Researchers analyzing bronze daggers, swords, and axes found in bogs and graves at various places in Sweden… have made a surprising find. Some of the artifacts date as far back 3,600 years ago, and they say the objects were made with copper from southern Europe, Turkey, and Cyprus

    …analyzing isotopes and comparing it to metals from places in Europe where there were mines in prehistoric times…

    …bronze allowed for more intensive farming, a population increase, and, unfortunately, more widespread and devastating warfare…

    …The distance from Cyprus to Sweden is about 3,000 kilometers or 1,865 miles as the crow flies…

    …some of them are made of metal from the Taurus Mountains in south Turkey…

    …The copper may have been traded for amber—another key element of Bronze Age trade…

    …Some tin came from Cornwall, England, and from southern Germany…”

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  138. the putt breaks six inches toward the ocean

    Colonel Kilgore, flinging his putter over the cliff:

    “This whole shitty lawn, it’s all goddamn beach break!”

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  139. Lagertha says:
    @Anon 2
    Actually, Poland has mountains, and wherever you have
    mountains, you also have mineral deposits. Poland has vast
    deposits of coal, huge amounts of copper and salt, some rare earths,
    and significant deposits of oil and gas, some offshore, some shale

    Apologies! Finland still has nothing…but, be careful with what you and your Poland have in the “grand scheme of things”…:)

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  140. @Autochthon
    How populous a city (or indeed an empire) may be and how complicated a bureaucracy may be have sod all to do with civilisational advancement. By your lights California's DMV outshines the Manhattan Project and Bangalore is preferable to Del Mar.

    Mere numbers don’t make civilizational acheivement, but a certain level of urbanization is necessary for the degree of specialization and leisure that has produced that West’s great breakthroughs. There is no Renaissance, Enlightenment, or Industrial Revolution without Florence, Paris, or Manchester (and though Florence wasn’t a huge place itself, Northern Italy was far more urbanized than the European norm at the time).

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    • Replies: @Autochthon
    Your response had nothing to do with the Asian megalopoli of ants you cite approvingly.
  141. @Expletive Deleted
    Tenochtitlan was absolutely mega when Cortes called in in 1530, 212,500, or more. London was a piddling (estimated) 50,000 in 1530, and only grew to ca. 225,000 by 1605. Mexico City is now pretty much the same size population as That London, just under 9 million. I wonder which was, and is, more 'advanced'? At least London had restricted its human sacrifices to a few hardnosed religious types by that time.
    tl;dr city size is a thoroughly bad metric, verging on dishonest, trying to rank North Atlantic island carrying capacities with those of tropical paradises. They'll be telling me next that Lagos is more advanced than Copenhagen.

    No tropical paradises were involved in the comparison. In an agricultural society, you need a food surplus and networks of long distance trade to support very large urban centers, and those urban centers in turn provide economic specialization that allows all sorts of technological and cultural refinements. Population as a mere number isn’t the point.

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    • Replies: @Autochthon
    But population as a mere number is precislely what you cited as the point; you boasted that Asian cities were more populous. As another already pointed out: Tenochtitlan was more populous than Madrid when Cortes arrived. So what? It's inhabitants were running about naked and eating each other. Likewise, if China's populous cities were so impressive, why did they not achieve the marvels achieved by Europeans in their (often less populous) cities? You are moving the goal-posts.
  142. @Patrick Harris
    Mere numbers don't make civilizational acheivement, but a certain level of urbanization is necessary for the degree of specialization and leisure that has produced that West's great breakthroughs. There is no Renaissance, Enlightenment, or Industrial Revolution without Florence, Paris, or Manchester (and though Florence wasn't a huge place itself, Northern Italy was far more urbanized than the European norm at the time).

    Your response had nothing to do with the Asian megalopoli of ants you cite approvingly.

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  143. @Patrick Harris
    No tropical paradises were involved in the comparison. In an agricultural society, you need a food surplus and networks of long distance trade to support very large urban centers, and those urban centers in turn provide economic specialization that allows all sorts of technological and cultural refinements. Population as a mere number isn't the point.

    But population as a mere number is precislely what you cited as the point; you boasted that Asian cities were more populous. As another already pointed out: Tenochtitlan was more populous than Madrid when Cortes arrived. So what? It’s inhabitants were running about naked and eating each other. Likewise, if China’s populous cities were so impressive, why did they not achieve the marvels achieved by Europeans in their (often less populous) cities? You are moving the goal-posts.

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