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On 9/11 there were numerous reports of celebrating Middle Easterners in New Jersey, but this is the one that appears to have been most carefully documented. From ABC News on an incident that has since been pretty much memory-holed:

Were Israelis Detained on Sept. 11 Spies?

Millions saw the horrific images of the World Trade Center attacks, and those who saw them won’t forget them. But a New Jersey homemaker saw something that morning that prompted an investigation into five young Israelis and their possible connection to Israeli intelligence.

Maria, who asked us not to use her last name, had a view of the World Trade Center from her New Jersey apartment building. She remembers a neighbor calling her shortly after the first plane hit the towers.

She grabbed her binoculars and watched the destruction unfolding in lower Manhattan. But as she watched the disaster, something else caught her eye.

Maria says she saw three young men kneeling on the roof of a white van in the parking lot of her apartment building. “They seemed to be taking a movie,” Maria said.

The men were taking video or photos of themselves with the World Trade Center burning in the background, she said. What struck Maria were the expressions on the men’s faces. “They were like happy, you know … They didn’t look shocked to me. I thought it was very strange,” she said.

She found the behavior so suspicious that she wrote down the license plate number of the van and called the police. Before long, the FBI was also on the scene, and a statewide bulletin was issued on the van.

The plate number was traced to a van owned by a company called Urban Moving. Around 4 p.m. on Sept. 11, the van was spotted on a service road off Route 3, near New Jersey’s Giants Stadium. A police officer pulled the van over, finding five men, between 22 and 27 years old, in the vehicle. The men were taken out of the van at gunpoint and handcuffed by police.

The arresting officers said they saw a lot that aroused their suspicion about the men. One of the passengers had $4,700 in cash hidden in his sock. Another was carrying two foreign passports. A box cutter was found in the van. But perhaps the biggest surprise for the officers came when the five men identified themselves as Israeli citizens.

According to the police report, one of the passengers told the officers they had been on the West Side Highway in Manhattan “during the incident” — referring to the World Trade Center attack. The driver of the van, Sivan Kurzberg, told the officers, “We are Israeli. We are not your problem. Your problems are our problems. The Palestinians are the problem.” The other passengers were his brother Paul Kurzberg, Yaron Shmuel, Oded Ellner and Omer Marmari.

When the men were transferred to jail, the case was transferred out of the FBI’s Criminal Division, and into the bureau’s Foreign Counterintelligence Section, which is responsible for espionage cases, ABCNEWS has learned.

One reason for the shift, sources told ABCNEWS, was that the FBI believed Urban Moving may have been providing cover for an Israeli intelligence operation. …

Steven Gordon, the attorney for the five Israeli detainees, acknowledged that his clients’ actions on Sept. 11 would easily have aroused suspicions. “You got a group of guys that are taking pictures, on top of a roof, of the World Trade Center. They’re speaking in a foreign language. They got two passports on ‘em. One’s got a wad of cash on him, and they got box cutters. Now that’s a scary situation.”

But Gordon insisted that his clients were just five young men who had come to America for a vacation, ended up working for a moving company, and were taking pictures of the event.

The five Israelis were held at the Metropolitan Detention Center in Brooklyn, ostensibly for overstaying their tourist visas and working in the United States illegally. Two weeks after their arrest, an immigration judge ordered them to be deported. But sources told ABCNEWS that FBI and CIA officials in Washington put a hold on the case.

The five men were held in detention for more than two months. Some of them were placed in solitary confinement for 40 days, and some of them were given as many as seven lie-detector tests.

Since their arrest, plenty of speculation has swirled about the case, and what the five men were doing that morning. Eventually, The Forward, a respected Jewish newspaper in New York, reported the FBI concluded that two of the men were Israeli intelligence operatives.

Vince Cannistraro, a former chief of operations for counterterrorism with the CIA who is now a consultant for ABCNEWS, said federal authorities’ interest in the case was heightened when some of the men’s names were found in a search of a national intelligence database.

According to Cannistraro, many people in the U.S. intelligence community believed that some of the men arrested were working for Israeli intelligence. Cannistraro said there was speculation as to whether Urban Moving had been “set up or exploited for the purpose of launching an intelligence operation against radical Islamists in the area, particularly in the New Jersey-New York area.”

Under this scenario, the alleged spying operation was not aimed against the United States, but at penetrating or monitoring radical fund-raising and support networks in Muslim communities like Paterson, N.J., which was one of the places where several of the hijackers lived in the months prior to Sept. 11.

For the FBI, deciphering the truth from the five Israelis proved to be difficult. One of them, Paul Kurzberg, refused to take a lie-detector test for 10 weeks — then failed it, according to his lawyer. Another of his lawyers told us Kurzberg had been reluctant to take the test because he had once worked for Israeli intelligence in another country.

Sources say the Israelis were targeting these fund-raising networks because they were thought to be channeling money to Hamas and Islamic Jihad, groups that are responsible for most of the suicide bombings in Israel. …

Despite the denials, sources tell ABCNEWS there is still debate within the FBI over whether or not the young men were spies.

I doubt if this was terribly important incident, although I have to say I was surprised to see how seriously the FBI took it.

My guess is that there are many casual ties between Israeli intelligence, Israeli business interests (e.g., telecom software), organized crime (e.g., the Ecstasy pill trade), and Israeli illegal immigrants in the U.S.

For example, I can vaguely recall decades ago the marketing research firm I worked for being subjected to intrusive “Israeli art students.” Were they selling bad paintings? Were they trying to spy on us? Both? It didn’t seem like any kind of sophisticated effort. What in the world kind of info could you steal by barging around the hallways of a consumer packaged goods research firm with the office manager trying to throw you out? It was more like just something that random aggressive Israeli young people might think might turn out to be a good idea. Or maybe they could sell some crummy paintings. Or maybe it would just be a fun adventure.

But that’s how good intelligence systems work: you can’t afford to pay for full timers to cover everything, so you exchange gossip with merchants and journalists on your side and encourage them to be pushy about finding out stuff.

For example, the Tom Hanks character in Spielberg’s “Bridge of Spies” is portrayed as a humble insurance lawyer who just happens to get picked by the local bar association to defend the arrested Soviet spymaster Rudolf Abel. But in reality, the man Hanks portrays had been the head lawyer for the CIA’s predecessor, the OSS, in WWII. After the war he went into commercial law because it pays better than being a government lawyer. But the American government continued to trust him to handle delicate deals, just as the remarkably prosperous East German lawyer he negotiated the Francis Gary Powers swap with had been vetted by his side.

As far as I can tell, U.S. intelligence is fairly hamstrung by fear of leaks and traitors. For example, a friend applied for a job as a CIA analyst, but it took forever for the security checks so he took a job in private industry instead. My impression is that Israeli intelligence is more free-wheeling because it trusts Israeli Jews (with the exception of that technician who spilled the beans that, yes, Israel has nukes). But I’m speculating because what do I know?

 
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  1. Blobby5 says:

    Is the use of ‘pushy’ antisemitic?

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    • Replies: @marty
    I once knew a U. Chicago mba student who described another jew thusly: "he'll do well in life, he's pushy, obnoxious."
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  2. jtgw says: • Website

    Israel seems to work on trust in many ways. E.g. how exactly do they verify your Jewishness when you apply for citizenship there? It would seem to be something easy to fake, and yet Israel is pretty good at keeping itself Jewish.

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    • Replies: @Cwhatfuture
    For citizenship, it is not difficult. Certain names are Jewish and you have to present some proof of the fact that you are Jewish (your Bar Mitzvah certificate). The real check is marriage. The rabbis are very strict and will subject you to a trial, where witnesses and evidence are presented. All in all they manage it well - if limiting the numbers of Jews is the goal, which it seems to be. Conversion to Judaism is hard. They are not looking for converts.
    , @Steve Sailer
    There are a whole bunch of websites run by Jews that evaluate how Jewish various celebrities are. My impression is that gentiles have no clue how much mental energy Jews devote to such questions.
    , @sprfls
    Who said they do a good job? Obviously I don't know the exact numbers here, but for example a significant amount of non-Jewish Soviets emigrated to Israel in the 80s and 90s.
    , @Karl
    >> how exactly do they verify your Jewishness when you apply for citizenship there?

    the same sort of way that Ireland verifies that one of your four grandparents was Irish, before giving you your Irish passport.

    I notice that Ireland just put some money into copying the "Birthright" program.

    Didn't Michelle Bachmann just get her Swiss dual-loyalty credentials?

    Philippines process for granting dual-citizenship to its large diaspora,runs pretty much the same way.

    In MANY of the world's second-tier countries, if you REALLY want to gain citizenship, repeated applications of money and persistence, will get you there. Lawyers exist.
    , @Lugash
    And in America, we allow American born foreign spies and their foreign born spy husbands to emigrate to the United States, after kidnapping people on foreign soil:

    http://www.sptimes.com/2004/03/21/Worldandnation/The_spy___and_the_man.shtml
    , @shk12344
    Israel can always do a DNA test for Jewish ancestry.

    Russian-speakers who want to make aliya could need DNA test

    http://www.timesofisrael.com/russian-speakers-who-want-to-immigrate-could-need-dna-test/
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  3. The picture I remember was of about five men seen from behind looking across the river at the twin towers and rejoicing. They were said to be Israelis. They would obviously be happy because now the US would go to war against Arabs. I’ve read that Israelis had some inkling that an attack was imminent, and that US intelligence did also, “Their hair was on fire”, but that the administration ignored US intelligence. For example, of course, Bush thought it would be racist to profile Arabs. I have not read if US intelligence did or did not receive leads from the Israelis.

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    • Replies: @NOTA
    Even if the Israelis knew ahead of time, why would they send people in the field who knew ahead of time, and put them in a position to be arrested and questioned by the FBI?
    , @Anonymous
    They were filming the attack. The were apprehended for 40+ days and failed lie detector tests.

    One of them inadvertently admitted on live Israeli TV they were there to 'document the event'

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tRfhUezbKLw

    There are a lot of things that were reported on at the time of the attack that were simply never followed up on. Here is Fox news footage from 2001, alleging that Israel knew what was going to happen.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LbkQddEDPs0


    Any way you slice it, Israel is rotten in it's dealings with the US. There is no way they should be considered an 'ally' and the fact that they receive aid from the American taxpayer is an outrage.
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  4. It seems that some Arabs in New York City did have prior knowledge of the attack and were looking forward to it.

    Prior Knowledge of Sept. 11 Not Just Urban Legend
    Posted Sept. 10, 2002
    By Jeffrey Scott Shapiro

    “What are you looking at?” asked the schoolteacher as she approached one of her freshman students. The boy, a young Palestinian, seemed captivated as he stared out the window across Brooklyn toward the lower downtown area of Manhattan.

    “Do you see those two buildings?” he asked while pointing toward the World Trade Center. “They won’t be standing there next week.” It was noon, Sept. 6, 2001.

    Antoinette DiLorenzo didn’t take her student’s comment all too seriously. Of course the twin towers would be there next week, she assured him. The student shook his head and reiterated his prediction until his 15-year old brother, a sophomore, elbowed him and told him to be quiet. “He’s just kidding,” the older boy said politely.

    Five days later at 8:45 a.m., DiLorenzo heard a loud explosion from the north. Thunderstruck, she turned to the window and eventually watched both towers collapse into shattered glass and crumbled steel.

    Many people believed this story was nothing more than an urban legend when they first heard it. Everyone has heard similar stories in the wake of such a disaster. Despite the almost unbelievable circumstances of the story, I was able to confirm it last October while working as a crime reporter for the Journal News, a New York-based Gannett newspaper. Catie Marshall, a spokeswoman for the New York City Board of Education, confirmed that school officials reported the incident to police and that the matter had since been taken over by the FBI Joint Terrorist Task Force (FBI-JTTF).

    New Utrecht High School was closed Sept. 12, 2001, but as soon as it reopened the following morning, a shaken DiLorenzo quietly approached a New York City Police Department (NYPD) school-safety officer in the school’s first-floor lobby. Soon, a dozen investigators stormed the school, interrogating students and searching lockers.

    After federal agents questioned DiLorenzo, police detectives questioned her fourth-period class to see if anyone else had heard the boy’s comments. Once the detectives were finished, the boy and his brother forcibly were taken to the 62nd Precinct headquarters, where two investigators with the FBI-JTTF questioned them for several hours. Their father, who was in Israel at the time of the attacks, was scheduled to fly home Sept. 11 on a commercial airliner, but he was delayed when all flights to the United States were grounded.

    More at the following webpage:

    http://www.prisonplanet.com/prior_knowledge_of_sept_11_not_just_urban_legend.htm

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    • Replies: @SPMoore8
    That's a terrible article. The basic premise is that a lot of 10-12 year old Arabs know precise details about terror attacks, but no one else does.

    It's not as though they were instant messaging Osama. There has to be a chain of how the knowledge is disseminated from Thrush Central (here, OBL) all the way down to these boys, and how no one else in that chain of dissemination leaked the information, or was arrested, charged, and convicted.

    The icing on the cake comes at the end of the article when the paranoid author recounts a story of an Arab boy who told people not to fly on November 12: of course, the date the flight AA 587 to the Dominican Republic crashed in Queens. Author says: "authorities say it was an accident. I'm not so sure." Hey, I had to put air in one of my tires this morning. I thought it was routine maintenance, but now, I'm not so sure .....

    , @greysquirrell
    PrisonPlanet is not a decent source, because while it occassionally may have some worthy news , it is too often neck deep in unsutantiated conspiracy news.

    The problem in believeing the story you quote is that there is no way the planners of 9-11 would have told or discussed their plans in a manner that some highschool kids could overhear and then babble about it.

    Unless I can see some mainstream news sites report on the same claim , I'm chalking it up to propaghanda. The article reporting the kids were Palestinian also arouses my suspicion. None of the 9-11 Hijackers were Palestinian, so it wouldn't be like their unlces or older brothers or dads were discussing it and these kids overheard it.
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  5. Wilkey says:

    “But Gordon insisted that his clients were just five young men who had come to America for a vacation, ended up working for a moving company.”

    Because who doesn’t eventually end up working for a Jersey moving company when they’re on vacation? I still regale friends and family members with stories of the time I visited London and spent the entire three weeks working 14 hour a day shifts frying chicken at KFC Halal. Even more memorable was that trip to Thailand back in middle school, where I spent a week turning tricks for a local pimp, Prayut. He and I are still penpals, exchanging Christmas cards, Hanukkah presents, homemade porn, and updates on our latest T cell counts. Good times…

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    • Agree: Romanian
    • Replies: @AndrewR
    Lmao! I've seen some funny comments on this site but yours takes the cake. You could write for Family Guy.
    , @ben tillman
    LOL! Absolutely hilarious.
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  6. I could have sworn the so-called “dancing Israelis” were in Brooklyn?

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  7. tanabear says:

    Steve: “I doubt if this was terribly important incident.”

    You might want to look into the incident a little bit more. The Dancing Israeli’s were giddy with delight right after the first tower was struck. Three of the 5 were members of the Mossad. They stated that they were there to document the events. The cameras were setup prior to the attacks. Also look into Dominick Suter and Urban Moving Systems.

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    • Replies: @Seth
    The idea that these guys were up to anything in particular is absurd.

    They were filming the WTC as it burned...like everyone else with a camera in a two mile radius. On tv later one of them said in bad English that he was "documenting" the event and the loonies took that to mean that he had been sent there to do it.

    Why would the Mossad need to have the most spectacular event in American history specially "documented?"

    NYC is filled with illegal immigrants who say they are tourists and are doing some work in the meantime. Not unusual.

    Movers are often paid in cash. $4700 among 4 people may sound like a lot of money to some fevered conspiracy theorist but if that was all their money it's really not that much.
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  8. Don’t forget the part about how these guys, and their Urban Moving Systems colleagues, were arrested in two white Urban Moving Systems vans, respectively containing traces of explosives, and packed with explosives. All public record. The footage, police transcript, police forensic record, MSM news record, their interrogation record under lie detector, all public record.

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  9. bomag says:

    Overheard in Mossad headquarters:

    “Oy vey! We put these guys on the payroll, and they do a sack dance on a van roof! We’re supposed to be the smart ones here, but our people just can’t help themselves sometimes. Even their country-western songs know the score: ‘you never count your money, when you’re sitting at the table.’”

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  10. AndrewR says:
    @Wilkey
    "But Gordon insisted that his clients were just five young men who had come to America for a vacation, ended up working for a moving company."

    Because who doesn't eventually end up working for a Jersey moving company when they're on vacation? I still regale friends and family members with stories of the time I visited London and spent the entire three weeks working 14 hour a day shifts frying chicken at KFC Halal. Even more memorable was that trip to Thailand back in middle school, where I spent a week turning tricks for a local pimp, Prayut. He and I are still penpals, exchanging Christmas cards, Hanukkah presents, homemade porn, and updates on our latest T cell counts. Good times...

    Lmao! I’ve seen some funny comments on this site but yours takes the cake. You could write for Family Guy.

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    • Replies: @MW
    As absurd as it sounds to an American, this is exactly what my Israeli cousin did, though "vacation" might be a misleading word. It is very common for young Israelis to take a few years after their army service and putter around the world, working as necessary. And there are lots of Israeli moving companies in the US, for whatever reason. So when my cousin needed work after a month or two doing nothing, he reached out to a childhood friend of his who, sure enough, ran a moving company in the US.
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  11. a reader says:

    Is Josef Schuster, the president of the Central Council of Jews in Germany, yet one more secret reader of yours?

    And by the way, Pollard’s sinecure didn’t last long…

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  12. @jtgw
    Israel seems to work on trust in many ways. E.g. how exactly do they verify your Jewishness when you apply for citizenship there? It would seem to be something easy to fake, and yet Israel is pretty good at keeping itself Jewish.

    For citizenship, it is not difficult. Certain names are Jewish and you have to present some proof of the fact that you are Jewish (your Bar Mitzvah certificate). The real check is marriage. The rabbis are very strict and will subject you to a trial, where witnesses and evidence are presented. All in all they manage it well – if limiting the numbers of Jews is the goal, which it seems to be. Conversion to Judaism is hard. They are not looking for converts.

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    • Replies: @jtgw
    Speaking of Jewish names, I always thought Alfred Rosenberg was pretty ironic.
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  13. J1234 says:

    Regardless, here are some future Syrian immigrants to the US celebrating 9/11.

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  14. @jtgw
    Israel seems to work on trust in many ways. E.g. how exactly do they verify your Jewishness when you apply for citizenship there? It would seem to be something easy to fake, and yet Israel is pretty good at keeping itself Jewish.

    There are a whole bunch of websites run by Jews that evaluate how Jewish various celebrities are. My impression is that gentiles have no clue how much mental energy Jews devote to such questions.

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    • Replies: @Mr. Anon
    "There are a whole bunch of websites run by Jews that evaluate how Jewish various celebrities are. My impression is that gentiles have no clue how much mental energy Jews devote to such questions."

    Obsession with racial purity. Nurturing ancient grievances. A belief in thier own superiority.

    Those traits remind me of another people I once heard about...........can't remember who.

    , @yaqub the mad scientist
    Maybe the government needs to pass a kind of Dawes Act to help resolve the conflicting quantum blood/lineal descent debate between Reform and more conservative sects, and tie congressional funding for Israel the way the BIA hands out props to reservations.
    , @Ben Tzot-Abrit
    You are correct about this. Some Jews also don't grasp how much other Jews devote to this. After 40 years of marriage, my father's side of the family is still flabbergasted at how much energy my mother's side of the family spends on this.
    , @Stephen R. Diamond
    Do you observe that all kinds of Jews attend to this? Or just the religious Jews?

    I think it's mostly the religious ones.
    , @Dahlia
    Funniest example I've ever seen of this...

    Years ago, and I'm 95% sure it was John Podhoretz, was commenting at National Review's blog. He had gotten excited about Ben Roethlisberger (pre-scandal), wondering if he was Jewish. Perhaps it was a Super Bowl, but lots of eyes were on him for some reason. So John googled it and posted what is the funniest bit of trolling I personally have ever come across...

    When you googled Ben Roethlisberger and Jewish, the first entry was an excited, eager, hyperventilating promised expose of whether Ben, indeed, was Jewish. When you clicked the link, you were brought to a single page with a single sentence in plain type at the very top of the page, just like what your opened desktop .txt file would look like:
    Sorry, Jews, he's not one of yours.
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  15. jackmcg says:

    I’ve always thought there was a Mossad link to 9/11, but I understand any skepticism when it comes to things like this. They have to be smart and sleuthy enough to do whatever they did undercover, but dumb and undisciplined enough that some of their agents get caught dancing and celebrating the attack? Doesn’t mesh. Oh well.

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  16. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer

    “For example, a friend applied for a job as a CIA analyst, but it took forever for the security checks so he took a job in private industry instead.”

    Uh …. Steve…. you do realize that’s exactly what he would have told you if he had been hired by the CIA?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    He complains a lot about how he proved on 10/14/2002 that Saddam couldn't afford a nuclear bomb program anymore but nobody would listen to him.
    , @Anonymous
    If he had been hired as a CIA analyst he would have said "I've been hired by the government in Virginia," not "I'm moving to New Mexico."
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  17. Mr. Anon says:
    @Steve Sailer
    There are a whole bunch of websites run by Jews that evaluate how Jewish various celebrities are. My impression is that gentiles have no clue how much mental energy Jews devote to such questions.

    “There are a whole bunch of websites run by Jews that evaluate how Jewish various celebrities are. My impression is that gentiles have no clue how much mental energy Jews devote to such questions.”

    Obsession with racial purity. Nurturing ancient grievances. A belief in thier own superiority.

    Those traits remind me of another people I once heard about………..can’t remember who.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Wally
    But Sailer is correct.

    Next.
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  18. The Israeli technician who blew the whistle on Israel’s nuke program was Mordechai Vanunu. From his Wiki page:

    Mordechai Vanunu (Hebrew: מרדכי ואנונו‎; born 14 October 1954), also known as John Crossman,[2][3] is an Israeli former nuclear technician and peace activist[4] who, citing his opposition to weapons of mass destruction, revealed details of Israel’s nuclear weapons program to the British press in 1986.[5][6] He was subsequently lured to Italy by a Mossad agent, where he was drugged and abducted by Israeli intelligence agents.[5] He was transported to Israel and ultimately convicted in a trial that was held behind closed doors.[5]
    Vanunu spent 18 years in prison, including more than 11 in solitary confinement. Released from prison in 2004, he became subject to a broad array of restrictions on his speech and movement. Since then he has been arrested several times for violations of those restrictions, including giving various interviews to foreign journalists and attempting to leave Israel. He says he suffered “cruel and barbaric treatment” at the hands of Israeli authorities while imprisoned, and suggests that his treatment would have been different if he had not converted to Christianity from Judaism.[7]
    In 2007, Vanunu was sentenced to six months in prison for violating terms of his parole. The sentence was considered unusual even by the prosecution who expected a suspended sentence. In response, Amnesty International issued a press release on 2 July 2007, stating that “The organisation considers Mordechai Vanunu to be a prisoner of conscience and calls for his immediate and unconditional release.”[8] In May 2010, Vanunu was arrested and sentenced to three months in jail on a charge that he met foreigners in violation of conditions of his 2004 release from jail.

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    • Replies: @Anonymous, @This Is Our Home
    The treatment seems pretty fair for a traitor. Indeed it is more moderate than what the US has done to Pollard; I probably would have shot them both.
    , @AnotherDad
    Vanunu's certainly wasn't Pollard level of treason.

    No one was at all confused that the Israelis had nuclear weapons. They didn't sign the NPT for a reason. One expects US\Soviet intelligence had at least ballpark estimates of where they were at. What Vanunu provided was some public confirmation of scale.

    My two-bit analysis: I don't think he harmed Israel at all. Leftists painted nuclear deterrence as "terror", but i slept like a baby my whole youth. Wasn't waking in a cold sweat thinking the Russkis were going to nuke me, because they knew with certainty what would happen to them if they did. Arab hostiles now know with certainty what fate awaits them--their cities, muslim holy sites ... gone--if they really try to push Israel into the sea. (And they haven't tried to do so since.) Yet, Israel can continue to parrot whatever their bogus line is "won't be the first to introduce" to the US.

    But that said, plain fact is, Israel elects a government and its their job--not Vanunu's--to decide to release what information about their nuclear program at what time for maximum benefit to their nation's security. Ergo Vanunu's a traitor. The Israelis would be well within normal respectable rules of fair play to take him out back and shoot him.

    Pollard's nothing but a traitor, selling off actual operational intelligence methods, info that hindered intelligence collection and harmed US security for cash money. He should have been drawn and quartered, boiling oil dribbled down his throat and his innards pulled out and burned. That someone is giving him a job on Wall Street suggests said someone is not an American.

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  19. tbraton says:

    My first reaction when I heard Trump’s account was that he was confusing what he thought he remembered with the fairly well documented story of the “dancing” Israelis in New Jersey celebrating the collapse of the Twin Towers. I notice that neither Trump nor the MSM outlets trying to debunk Trump (NBC Nightly News had a lead piece last night) mentioned the incident involving the Israeli “movers.” Who doesn’t carry $4700 in cash hidden in his sock? You never know when you are going to run into a bargain and don’t want to use your credit card. I have been doing it for years. I admit it’s kind of hard when you live in Florida and generally don’t wear socks.

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  20. nglaer says:

    You write there were “numerous reports” of Midwesterners celebrating on 9/11. I know about the Israelis in the van– and Carl Cameron’s Fox News reports on them, etc. But others? Sad to say, it’s important. Trump can get away with saying a lot of politically incorrect stuff, but he can’t just make stuff up, it’s really not presidential.

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    • Replies: @nglaer
    I meant Mideasterners--it's your silly spellcheck.
    , @Bill Jones
    " it’s really not presidential."

    "Now who's being Naive, Kay?"
    , @Desiderius

    he can’t just make stuff up, it’s really not presidential
     
    One would hope.

    Don't think the current occupant feels that way.
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  21. nglaer says:
    @nglaer
    You write there were "numerous reports" of Midwesterners celebrating on 9/11. I know about the Israelis in the van-- and Carl Cameron's Fox News reports on them, etc. But others? Sad to say, it's important. Trump can get away with saying a lot of politically incorrect stuff, but he can't just make stuff up, it's really not presidential.

    I meant Mideasterners–it’s your silly spellcheck.

    Read More
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  22. @Anonymous

    "For example, a friend applied for a job as a CIA analyst, but it took forever for the security checks so he took a job in private industry instead."
     
    Uh .... Steve.... you do realize that's exactly what he would have told you if he had been hired by the CIA?

    He complains a lot about how he proved on 10/14/2002 that Saddam couldn’t afford a nuclear bomb program anymore but nobody would listen to him.

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    • Replies: @Josh
    Oh...him.
    , @Thomas O. Meehan
    I lived in New Jersey at the time of the attack and was working in law enforcement. I recall reports of Arabs celebrating on the streets of Paterson or Passaic. At this remove I can't say I saw video of said jubilation, but it was reported and taken at face value by a very large percentage of the population. At the same time the airwaves were full of footage of Palestinians openly celebrating. Those were the circumstances. It would be surprising if no one among the notoriously unassimilated ME populations in their ethnic ghettos hadn't celebrated a bit. At the same time it is possible that Trump saw the dancing Palestinians and conflated them with the reports from Paterson and or Passaic.

    That said, I think it is possible that footage exists but is lost or being withheld.

    If Trump is delusional about the dancing arabs of Passaic, he shares that delusion with millions of fellow New York area citizens.
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  23. gruff says:

    The Dancing Israelis appear in the 2005 documentary The Protocols of Zion. The Jewish filmmaker investigates the story expecting to find another antijewish canard like he does in all the other parts of the film, but he discovers the guys to have been actual Israeli intelligence assets. They appeared on an Israeli talk show after their release and the filmmaker includes a clip of this in the documentary.

    Well worth watching.

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  24. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer

    What in the world kind of info could you steal by barging around the hallways of a consumer packaged goods research firm with the office manager trying to throw you out

    Running a moving company, on the other hand…

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  25. As far as I can tell, U.S. intelligence is fairly hamstrung by fear of leaks and traitors. For example, a friend applied for a job as a CIA analyst, but it took forever for the security checks so he took a job in private industry instead.

    I once considered working for FBI or CIA. I got application packages from each. I had familial connection to CIA, but no relationship to FBI. The FBI package was at least 50 pages and required exhaustive detail including all schools attended and dates of attendance along with grades (do you have your third grade report cards?). They demanded all family connections to second cousin along with detail like date of birth and photos. It was, putting it mildly, incredibly over the top. The CIA application was a bit different. Again, I had some family connection including covert operatives one of whom lost his life in Turkey and another in Laos. But the CIA application package was two pages. I’ve had far more intrusive applications for corporate weenie jobs. Name, date of birth, SSN, address, college, and employment – that’s all they wanted. What I took from this was that FBI is occupied by paper pushers, bureaucrats, lawyers, and accountants, demanding every i be dotted and every t crossed to cover their own asses. The CIA, on the other hand, is far more cowboy in orientation and looking more for specific attributes it can exploit in labor talent. It’s easy to understand how the two organizations can spectacularly fail to work together.

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    • Replies: @Josh
    Or they can get your info for themselves, than you very much.
    , @al gore rhythms

    The FBI package was at least 50 pages and required exhaustive detail including all schools attended and dates of attendance along with grades (do you have your third grade report cards?). They demanded all family connections to second cousin along with detail like date of birth and photos. It was, putting it mildly, incredibly over the top
     
    Shouldn't this be subject to a 'disparate impact' challenge? If you moved to America as a young child from the chaotic Third World then it might be hard to prove family connections or school grades.
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  26. Richard says:

    I vividly remember footage on CNN of Palestinians in the West Bank celebrating 9/11 right after it happened, which is probably what Trump has in his mind’s eye when he says he saw “thousands and thousands” of Muslims cheering it (though 20 or so in a crowded film frame is what I remember). I don’t think I ever heard of the Jersey City incident, but there are 2001 news reports of police investigating a Muslim celebration that didn’t bear fruit which Trump, living nearby, probably read about. Since the reports are very similar and happened at the same time it’s likely Trump’s memory is conflating two separate but similar news stories.

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  27. jtgw says: • Website
    @Cwhatfuture
    For citizenship, it is not difficult. Certain names are Jewish and you have to present some proof of the fact that you are Jewish (your Bar Mitzvah certificate). The real check is marriage. The rabbis are very strict and will subject you to a trial, where witnesses and evidence are presented. All in all they manage it well - if limiting the numbers of Jews is the goal, which it seems to be. Conversion to Judaism is hard. They are not looking for converts.

    Speaking of Jewish names, I always thought Alfred Rosenberg was pretty ironic.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Wally
    Speaking of non-Jewish names, I always thought Kirk Douglas was pretty ironic.
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  28. jackmcg says:

    O/T I can’t remember if I’ve posted this here or not but I’ve made a prediction that Hillary will choose a hispanic man for VP. Another woman steals her thunder, a white man isn’t “progress”, an asian man too irrelevant, a well-spoken black man in very short supply. A Hispanic male VP charges up her side of the immigration vote. I’m sure there are a couple possible choices in the Dem. party somewhere.

    As for the republicans, if its Trump he’s completely unpredictable. If its an establishment candidate, it looks like they cut a deal with Kasich to get the VP role in exchange for leading the attack against Trump.

    Read More
    • Replies: @nglaer
    http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2015/11/22/dnc_vice_chair_tulsi_gabbard_toppling_secular_dicators_like_hussein_qaddafi_assad_is_counterproductive_because_is_directly_helps_isis__al-qaeda.html

    Trump should choose Tulsi Gabbard, would send a lot of good and confusing signals.
    , @Kevin O'Keeffe
    "I can’t remember if I’ve posted this here or not but I’ve made a prediction that Hillary will choose a hispanic man for VP. Another woman steals her thunder, a white man isn’t “progress”, an asian man too irrelevant, a well-spoken black man in very short supply. A Hispanic male VP charges up her side of the immigration vote. I’m sure there are a couple possible choices in the Dem. party somewhere."

    Hillary has all but stated her intent to nominate HUD Secretary Julian* Castro as her Veep. Steve's talked about it, actually.

    *Pronounced "whoolian," for all you micro-aggressing sh*tlords who had the temerity to suppose he pronounced it like the old Roman Emperor
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  29. As far as I can tell, U.S. intelligence is fairly hamstrung by fear of leaks and traitors. For example, a friend applied for a job as a CIA analyst, but it took forever for the security checks

    Both the FBI and the CIA put potential hires through a battery of lie detector tests in which they are asked whether or not they’ve committed the most mundane of “illegal” acts, such as downloading music for free or parking in a handicap spot. If you admit it, you don’t get hired. If you say you didn’t, but the machine says you did, you don’t get hired. Obviously, no young man in America is as squeaky clean as their standards demand; the result is that the spooks and G-men simply hire the best liars.

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    • Replies: @This Is Our Home
    If you broke the law, just tell the truth.
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  30. Tracy says: • Website

    Those “dancing Israelis” allegedly went on Israeli television to recount their tale and said that they were there “to document the event”. This TV bit starts at around 6:10 in this video:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rStJ5BgadPs

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  31. Mr. Anon says:

    “For example, I can vaguely recall decades ago the marketing research firm I worked for being subjected to intrusive “Israeli art students.” Were they selling bad paintings? Were they trying to spy on us? Both?”

    Did they ever sell a single painting? Based on that Salon article, it pretty clearly was a spy-ring. And the notion that dozens of Israelis passing themselves off as students would be engaged in spying without it being an actual operation of the Israeli government is ridiculous. But some official fromt he Israeli government assured us that “Israel does not spy on the United States”.

    It seems odd that they seemed to be targeting the DEA so much…..why?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    The Israeli government tosses a certain amount of money toward a lot of things. For example, it funds college students to engage in online hasbara. But that doesn't necessarily mean that every tweet is signed off on by Netanyahu's office.

    Some of these low level things may just be to try out enthusiastic young volunteers and see who turns out to be good at it.

    Other stuff could just be intelligence people doing a little drug dealing on the side.

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  32. WhatEvvs [AKA "Internet Addict"] says:

    I’ve always thought that they were drug dealers. Might a moving company not be a nicely convenient cover for drug dealing?

    Israelis have a well deserved rep for unmitigated shamelessness, but doing something like this, blabbing so openly to their arresting officers? Couldn’t the Mossad do a bit better than this?

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  33. Wally says: • Website
    @Mr. Anon
    "There are a whole bunch of websites run by Jews that evaluate how Jewish various celebrities are. My impression is that gentiles have no clue how much mental energy Jews devote to such questions."

    Obsession with racial purity. Nurturing ancient grievances. A belief in thier own superiority.

    Those traits remind me of another people I once heard about...........can't remember who.

    But Sailer is correct.

    Next.

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  34. Fox News briefly did a piece on the Israeli spying

    http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article7545.htm

    It very quickly found its was down the memory tube.

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    • Replies: @tbraton
    That's what I remember seeing. Thanks for jogging my memory. It was a very well done piece, as I recall.
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  35. Buzz Mohawk says: • Website

    I too met some Israeli “art students,” just before 9/11 in fact. Young, tan-colored guys, typical Israeli type young men. I have sometimes wondered if they were among those guys with the van. The region of the country is right, and the timing is right.

    They were brought into the US by a charitable Jewish organization, which will remain nameless. I will not say how I met them, but I can’t help but share something that still makes me laugh:

    Having taken some art history in college, and having a long appreciation for the painting of certain periods, I of course worked the subject into a conversation with one of the “students.” I described some of my favorite art, and I asked him things like, “who are your favorite painters,” and “what period or type of art are you interested in.” It was like talking to a dairy cow. (So much for the vaunted Jewish IQ.) This guy clearly knew nothing about art and had no interest in it. He couldn’t even fake it, and he basically sucked at conversation.

    One would think Mossad would have prepared their spies for this situation, but they didn’t.

    I forgot about those guys until the story came out in the weeks after 9/11.

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  36. Wally says: • Website
    @jtgw
    Speaking of Jewish names, I always thought Alfred Rosenberg was pretty ironic.

    Speaking of non-Jewish names, I always thought Kirk Douglas was pretty ironic.

    Read More
    • Replies: @jtgw
    I'm not sure I get it.
    , @Kevin O'Keeffe
    "Kirk Douglas" was, effectively, a stage name. He was born Issur Danielovitch.
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  37. I admit, the “Dancing Israelis” did come to mind when Trump went off on his latest rant. Perhaps he’s trying to send some kind of coded signal to the Deep Staters, basically saying “I KNOW, so you better think twice on how far you want to push me.”

    But more likely, he was probably thinking of the footage of Palistinians dancing in the streets over in Israel. I clearly remember all of the networks showing that footage. It’s easy to see how memories could become jumbled on that day. If I were him, I’d at least backtrack on the “thousands and thousands” part. I know he doesn’t like to admit he’s wrong, but I don’t think even his most hardcore supporters will think less of him for it.

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    • Replies: @jackmcg
    Yes, Trump is good at this.

    Most conspicuously, he says "Border Walls work... ask Israel how well they work."

    Some doubt his sincerity, and I get that, but I believe Trump is an alt-righter with the right touch of conspiracy theory who would find himself right at home in these corners of the internet.

    I know they say he's "not politically correct", but I think he knows when to be politically correct, while still tracing the edges of this stuff so that it makes all of us think "he knows!".
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  38. Seth says:
    @tanabear
    Steve: "I doubt if this was terribly important incident."

    You might want to look into the incident a little bit more. The Dancing Israeli's were giddy with delight right after the first tower was struck. Three of the 5 were members of the Mossad. They stated that they were there to document the events. The cameras were setup prior to the attacks. Also look into Dominick Suter and Urban Moving Systems.

    The idea that these guys were up to anything in particular is absurd.

    They were filming the WTC as it burned…like everyone else with a camera in a two mile radius. On tv later one of them said in bad English that he was “documenting” the event and the loonies took that to mean that he had been sent there to do it.

    Why would the Mossad need to have the most spectacular event in American history specially “documented?”

    NYC is filled with illegal immigrants who say they are tourists and are doing some work in the meantime. Not unusual.

    Movers are often paid in cash. $4700 among 4 people may sound like a lot of money to some fevered conspiracy theorist but if that was all their money it’s really not that much.

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    • Agree: This Is Our Home
    • Replies: @Jasper Been
    It is revealing the parts you attempt to explain and the other aspects you choose not to address.
    , @tanabear
    Seth: "The idea that these guys were up to anything in particular is absurd."

    If it was absurd then they wouldn't have been contained for 71 days and questioned about their activities on 09/11/2001 over and over again. They obviously had to arouse some sort of suspicion and stand out from other witnesses of the towers burning otherwise the police would not have been called. Urban Moving Systems/Company was apparently a front company for the Mossad. Three of the suspects were Mossad agents. This is very suspicious.

    But why were they so giddy and happy?

    From the FBI report: "...one of the males appeared to be taking still photographs and video of the other males with the WTC in the background. All of the males appeared to be jovial in that they smiled, hugged one another, and gave "high fives".

    "Film obtained from the 35mm camera of one of the detainees was later developed and processed by the Newark Division. The photos clearly corroborate [Blank's] statements in that the Israelis are visibly happy on nearly all of the photgraphs."
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  39. Bill B. says:

    OT

    I was checking the BBC file on Turkey’s latest bear baiting:

    Former UK Foreign Office official says Russia will do ‘very little’
    Posted at12:31
    Reza Afshar, a former UK Foreign Office official in charge of Britain’s policy on Syria tweets:

    Reza Afshar @RezaMac
    #Turkey shoots down #Russia plane. Guess what Russia will do. Very little. Fears about confronting Russia have always been overblown. #Syria
    6:31 PM – 24 Nov 2015
    6363 Retweets 3131 like

    This sounded so remarkably complacent that I looked this guy up. He is a walking disaster: lead UK dip on Libya bombing, pressed hard to arm “moderate” Syrian rebels; lead UK dip on narcotics control in Afghanistan; lead dip on Cameron’s earlier scheme to bomb Assad, etc.

    And he keeps mysteriously rising. Now with a big with a New York Davos-level diplomacy group:

    http://independentdiplomat.org/about-us/staff/reza-afshar/

    Sent from my iPad

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  40. Polymath says:

    Alas for paper storage and microfiche, when you could go over the entire paper, down to the classifieds. Go electronic, and that article may be in the oubliette.

    I do remember reading about a teenage Palestinian boy in Paterson saying, “Now they know how we feel.”

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    • Replies: @Tracy

    I do remember reading about a teenage Palestinian boy in Paterson saying, “Now they know how we feel.”
     
    That's funny, because I was glued to the TV that day, almost mesmerized by what was going on, and know that video was played and replayed over and over -- except one, which was of an Israeli saying exactly what you attribute above to some Palestinian teenager. That, I think, was the only video I didn't see a hundred times that day (being hyperbolic here, obviously, with the "hundred" times, but straight-up about it). I've been unable to find that footage anywhere since, but I most definitely saw it. Once. On 9-11, during regular news broadcasts, on some channel such as CNN or FOX or whatever it was.
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  41. @Mr. Anon
    "For example, I can vaguely recall decades ago the marketing research firm I worked for being subjected to intrusive “Israeli art students.” Were they selling bad paintings? Were they trying to spy on us? Both?"

    Did they ever sell a single painting? Based on that Salon article, it pretty clearly was a spy-ring. And the notion that dozens of Israelis passing themselves off as students would be engaged in spying without it being an actual operation of the Israeli government is ridiculous. But some official fromt he Israeli government assured us that "Israel does not spy on the United States".

    It seems odd that they seemed to be targeting the DEA so much.....why?

    The Israeli government tosses a certain amount of money toward a lot of things. For example, it funds college students to engage in online hasbara. But that doesn’t necessarily mean that every tweet is signed off on by Netanyahu’s office.

    Some of these low level things may just be to try out enthusiastic young volunteers and see who turns out to be good at it.

    Other stuff could just be intelligence people doing a little drug dealing on the side.

    Read More
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  42. @nglaer
    You write there were "numerous reports" of Midwesterners celebrating on 9/11. I know about the Israelis in the van-- and Carl Cameron's Fox News reports on them, etc. But others? Sad to say, it's important. Trump can get away with saying a lot of politically incorrect stuff, but he can't just make stuff up, it's really not presidential.

    ” it’s really not presidential.”

    “Now who’s being Naive, Kay?”

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    • Replies: @Hunsdon
    Zing! Almost always an apt reference.
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  43. There are various 9/11 stories about suspicious trucks, some of them involving Israelis. Here is one such story.

    9-11 Cop Breaks Silence – Israeli Mossad Involvement in Attacks

    By Dave Gahary –
    September 23, 2011

    …. Sgt. Scott DeCarlo has never spoken to the media about the details of that day except for two 30-second cameo appearances in Internet videos from undetermined sources. In fact, DeCarlo confirmed that this is the first, and last, interview he will ever grant in regard to this subject. …

    Although not scheduled to work that day [9/11], DeCarlo reported anyway and “was posted on the highway” to prevent traffic from entering New York City.

    “There was a BOLO, which is a ‘Be On the Look Out’ for a particular van, perhaps loaded with explosives,” explained DeCarlo, “that may have been on its way to destroy the George Washington Bridge.”

    DeCarlo explained: “It [the suspicious van] happened to come our way, and I grabbed my sergeant … and said: ‘Hey, man, that’s our van.’ It wasn’t the exact license plate given reported — it was off by one numeral — but I said: ‘That’s gotta be it; it’s just too close.’”

    He continued: “The van was coming off the [N.J.] Turnpike trying to get on Route 3. Traffic was rolling at two miles an hour, so we got in front of the van on foot, weapons drawn, and stopped it.”

    All five of the Israeli spies refused to exit their vehicle, so DeCarlo was forced to get physical.

    “We asked them to get out of the van, but they didn’t listen,” he said. “So, we . . . put them in handcuffs and did it as quickly as possible.” ….

    DeCarlo then described what happened after the spies were dragged from their van. “When we removed them, one of the guys that was rather chatty said: ‘We’re not your enemy, we’re your friend. Our enemies are your enemies,’” DeCarlo said. “At that point they said they were from Israel. They kept saying, ‘Hey, we’re on your side.’”

    “We brought them over to the New Jersey State Police holding cells in the Meadowlands Stadium, and that’s the last I saw of them,” he said. ….

    https://archive.org/stream/9-11CopBreaksSilence-IsraeliMossadInvolvementInAttacks/9-11CopBreaksSilence-IsraeliMossadInvolvementInAttacks_djvu.txt

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  44. John Updike’s last novel “Terrorist” was about a Muslim kid in Paterson, NJ who becomes a terrorist.

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    • Replies: @WhatEvvs
    There was a real case of a nice kid from the NYC area who grew up to be a famous (in the Muslim world) propagandist: Margaret Marcus, a Jewish woman. Someone wrote a book about her, "The Convert," which wasn't too good. She was kind of an interesting character. Most of her kids ended up emigrating to the US and operating gas stations and stuff.
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  45. jtgw says: • Website
    @Wally
    Speaking of non-Jewish names, I always thought Kirk Douglas was pretty ironic.

    I’m not sure I get it.

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  46. @Steve Sailer
    There are a whole bunch of websites run by Jews that evaluate how Jewish various celebrities are. My impression is that gentiles have no clue how much mental energy Jews devote to such questions.

    Maybe the government needs to pass a kind of Dawes Act to help resolve the conflicting quantum blood/lineal descent debate between Reform and more conservative sects, and tie congressional funding for Israel the way the BIA hands out props to reservations.

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  47. nglaer says:
    @jackmcg
    O/T I can't remember if I've posted this here or not but I've made a prediction that Hillary will choose a hispanic man for VP. Another woman steals her thunder, a white man isn't "progress", an asian man too irrelevant, a well-spoken black man in very short supply. A Hispanic male VP charges up her side of the immigration vote. I'm sure there are a couple possible choices in the Dem. party somewhere.

    As for the republicans, if its Trump he's completely unpredictable. If its an establishment candidate, it looks like they cut a deal with Kasich to get the VP role in exchange for leading the attack against Trump.
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    • Replies: @jackmcg
    I wouldn't put any VP choice past him. I wonder if Gabbard is down for the immigration cause though.
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  48. SPMoore8 says:

    Yes, I remember the story about the van, and I also remember that Netanyahu was interviewed on 9/11 and said something that at the time I thought was fairly odd (something about how the attacks were good for Israel, which I thought was completely inappropriate under the circumstances.)

    A contextual fact that shouldn’t be underestimated: 9/11 took place three months after the Dolphinarium suicide bombing (1 June 01) that killed a score of Israelis. (There!) I remember the attack brought me up short because I wasn’t familiar with suicide bombing which became much more common later.

    However, the point is that 9/11 did facilitate American empathy and support for Israel (including the invasion of Iraq which was partly justified by the notion of WMD’s used against Israel, as well as reward payments to the families of suicide bombers.)

    Having said that I don’t want to pursue 9/11 conspiracies. I don’t think it’s unreasonable to argue that the US had some foreknowledge of “an” attack, rather much like possible US foreknowledge of an attack before December 7, 1941, but that is not the same as being actively involved in it.

    Even so, both Israel and the advocates of a US “security state” “benefited” from 9/11, and that’s why these theories are out there.

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  49. Drakejax says:

    A disgruntled MOSSAD officer wrote an expose´ (“By Way of Deception”) that detailed how MOSSAD is small and poor, but punches above its weight by employing Jews to spy in their local countries and use their businesses to pay for it all. Sort of like how Pollard suddenly got employed on Wall Street or something. The actual professional case officers are very few in number, but who needs them when high-status Jews throughout the world will hook you up with either information or influence.

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    • Replies: @Chiron
    They're called 'sayanim', its well known among some circles that what really makes the MOSSAD so powerful is wealthy and influential jews in countries like US, UK, France and Russia gaving premium information for the israelis.

    Jacob Cohen, a French-jew who became anti-Zionist admitted in a book that the MOSSAD recruits sayanim inside the French Freemasonry (the Judeo-Masonic conspiracy is quite plausible when you look into it), its likely that high-level Masonic lodges are used by the MOSSAD to recruit powerful jews and gentiles (known às Shabbo Goyim).
    , @Cwhatfuture
    If he had been anything but a low level clerk, which is what he was, he would already be dead or have been "brought back" to Israel for trial.
    , @Zed, Lord of the Brutals
    Many intelligence agencies do the same thing. If you're in a technical field of interest to the US IC and a 'reliable' US citizen, you may be approached and interviewed, either before and/or after you've attended any sort of foreign technical events (symposiums, conferences, etc etc) or simply involved in routine foreign business.
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  50. I am reminded of the fictional treatment of the sayanim, the Mossad’s broad network of Jewish fellow travelers, in Tim Power’s book Three Days to Never. Their devotion to the cause is often quite shallow, but the things asked are often quite trivial, so it evens out.

    That is fiction, but the feel of it matches up with things I’ve read about Cold War era spying, for example American Spies: Espionage against the United States from the Cold War to the Present by Michael J. Sulick. If the request is small enough, people’s consciences don’t seem bothered much.

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  51. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @Black Death
    The Israeli technician who blew the whistle on Israel's nuke program was Mordechai Vanunu. From his Wiki page:

    Mordechai Vanunu (Hebrew: מרדכי ואנונו‎; born 14 October 1954), also known as John Crossman,[2][3] is an Israeli former nuclear technician and peace activist[4] who, citing his opposition to weapons of mass destruction, revealed details of Israel's nuclear weapons program to the British press in 1986.[5][6] He was subsequently lured to Italy by a Mossad agent, where he was drugged and abducted by Israeli intelligence agents.[5] He was transported to Israel and ultimately convicted in a trial that was held behind closed doors.[5]
    Vanunu spent 18 years in prison, including more than 11 in solitary confinement. Released from prison in 2004, he became subject to a broad array of restrictions on his speech and movement. Since then he has been arrested several times for violations of those restrictions, including giving various interviews to foreign journalists and attempting to leave Israel. He says he suffered "cruel and barbaric treatment" at the hands of Israeli authorities while imprisoned, and suggests that his treatment would have been different if he had not converted to Christianity from Judaism.[7]
    In 2007, Vanunu was sentenced to six months in prison for violating terms of his parole. The sentence was considered unusual even by the prosecution who expected a suspended sentence. In response, Amnesty International issued a press release on 2 July 2007, stating that "The organisation considers Mordechai Vanunu to be a prisoner of conscience and calls for his immediate and unconditional release."[8] In May 2010, Vanunu was arrested and sentenced to three months in jail on a charge that he met foreigners in violation of conditions of his 2004 release from jail.
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  52. SPMoore8 says:
    @Mike Sylwester
    It seems that some Arabs in New York City did have prior knowledge of the attack and were looking forward to it.

    Prior Knowledge of Sept. 11 Not Just Urban Legend
    Posted Sept. 10, 2002
    By Jeffrey Scott Shapiro

    "What are you looking at?" asked the schoolteacher as she approached one of her freshman students. The boy, a young Palestinian, seemed captivated as he stared out the window across Brooklyn toward the lower downtown area of Manhattan.

    "Do you see those two buildings?" he asked while pointing toward the World Trade Center. "They won't be standing there next week." It was noon, Sept. 6, 2001.

    Antoinette DiLorenzo didn't take her student's comment all too seriously. Of course the twin towers would be there next week, she assured him. The student shook his head and reiterated his prediction until his 15-year old brother, a sophomore, elbowed him and told him to be quiet. "He's just kidding," the older boy said politely.

    Five days later at 8:45 a.m., DiLorenzo heard a loud explosion from the north. Thunderstruck, she turned to the window and eventually watched both towers collapse into shattered glass and crumbled steel.

    Many people believed this story was nothing more than an urban legend when they first heard it. Everyone has heard similar stories in the wake of such a disaster. Despite the almost unbelievable circumstances of the story, I was able to confirm it last October while working as a crime reporter for the Journal News, a New York-based Gannett newspaper. Catie Marshall, a spokeswoman for the New York City Board of Education, confirmed that school officials reported the incident to police and that the matter had since been taken over by the FBI Joint Terrorist Task Force (FBI-JTTF).

    New Utrecht High School was closed Sept. 12, 2001, but as soon as it reopened the following morning, a shaken DiLorenzo quietly approached a New York City Police Department (NYPD) school-safety officer in the school's first-floor lobby. Soon, a dozen investigators stormed the school, interrogating students and searching lockers.

    After federal agents questioned DiLorenzo, police detectives questioned her fourth-period class to see if anyone else had heard the boy's comments. Once the detectives were finished, the boy and his brother forcibly were taken to the 62nd Precinct headquarters, where two investigators with the FBI-JTTF questioned them for several hours. Their father, who was in Israel at the time of the attacks, was scheduled to fly home Sept. 11 on a commercial airliner, but he was delayed when all flights to the United States were grounded.
     

    More at the following webpage:

    http://www.prisonplanet.com/prior_knowledge_of_sept_11_not_just_urban_legend.htm

    That’s a terrible article. The basic premise is that a lot of 10-12 year old Arabs know precise details about terror attacks, but no one else does.

    It’s not as though they were instant messaging Osama. There has to be a chain of how the knowledge is disseminated from Thrush Central (here, OBL) all the way down to these boys, and how no one else in that chain of dissemination leaked the information, or was arrested, charged, and convicted.

    The icing on the cake comes at the end of the article when the paranoid author recounts a story of an Arab boy who told people not to fly on November 12: of course, the date the flight AA 587 to the Dominican Republic crashed in Queens. Author says: “authorities say it was an accident. I’m not so sure.” Hey, I had to put air in one of my tires this morning. I thought it was routine maintenance, but now, I’m not so sure …..

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  53. This Is Our Home [AKA "Robert Rediger"] says:
    @Black Death
    The Israeli technician who blew the whistle on Israel's nuke program was Mordechai Vanunu. From his Wiki page:

    Mordechai Vanunu (Hebrew: מרדכי ואנונו‎; born 14 October 1954), also known as John Crossman,[2][3] is an Israeli former nuclear technician and peace activist[4] who, citing his opposition to weapons of mass destruction, revealed details of Israel's nuclear weapons program to the British press in 1986.[5][6] He was subsequently lured to Italy by a Mossad agent, where he was drugged and abducted by Israeli intelligence agents.[5] He was transported to Israel and ultimately convicted in a trial that was held behind closed doors.[5]
    Vanunu spent 18 years in prison, including more than 11 in solitary confinement. Released from prison in 2004, he became subject to a broad array of restrictions on his speech and movement. Since then he has been arrested several times for violations of those restrictions, including giving various interviews to foreign journalists and attempting to leave Israel. He says he suffered "cruel and barbaric treatment" at the hands of Israeli authorities while imprisoned, and suggests that his treatment would have been different if he had not converted to Christianity from Judaism.[7]
    In 2007, Vanunu was sentenced to six months in prison for violating terms of his parole. The sentence was considered unusual even by the prosecution who expected a suspended sentence. In response, Amnesty International issued a press release on 2 July 2007, stating that "The organisation considers Mordechai Vanunu to be a prisoner of conscience and calls for his immediate and unconditional release."[8] In May 2010, Vanunu was arrested and sentenced to three months in jail on a charge that he met foreigners in violation of conditions of his 2004 release from jail.

    The treatment seems pretty fair for a traitor. Indeed it is more moderate than what the US has done to Pollard; I probably would have shot them both.

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    • Replies: @Black Death
    @Roger Rediger

    No, the treatment that Vanunu received is harsher - read the link provided by Anonymous - 51. There is no doubt that Vanunu was a traitor, and the Israeli government had every right to punish him. But his offense, like Pollard's, took place almost thirty years ago, and his freedom is still severely restricted - no different from Pollard. But here are the major differences - agree or disagree with him, Vanunu acted out of conviction - he never profited from his actions. Pollard was a hired spy, bought and paid for by the Israeli government. No doubt Pollard was sincerely motivated to help Israel, but he also got a ton of cash for what he did. Pollard also peddled his stolen information to other nations, including China, Pakistan and South Africa. Numerous high Israeli officials, including several prime ministers, have acknowledged that they were aware of Pollard's activities. So much for our "special relationship." It wasn't until the US Congress threatened to cut off all aid to Israel that full Israeli cooperation was secured.

    But that was then and this is now. I think both Pollard and Vanunu should be allowed to go where they want to go - Pollard to Israel and Vanunu to the US.
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  54. Perhaps not thousands but I think there were some celebrating.

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    • Replies: @Ron Unz

    Perhaps not thousands but I think there were some celebrating.
     
    Well, just out of curiosity, I decided to watch your YouTube clip, showing a special CNN report on "Homegrown Hate" which documented those "fanatic hate-filled American Muslims" who were celebrating the attacks. Sure, enough, they were there and interviewed, two of them, preaching outside a large NYC Mosque whose leadership was very unhappy about their presence, disagreed with them 100%, and hoped they would go away. Well, I think you can find two people to advocate almost anything in a big city like NYC.

    But the story is even more intriguing than that. Those two Muslims boldly call for the killing of American servicemen, say that Osama bin Laden is the perfect Muslim and their spiritual leader, and demand that Israel should be nuked off the face of the map. They were quite articulate (in a hate-filled way) and the reporters noted they seemed legally expert in knowing exactly what they could and could not say under First Amendment protections. As a minor aside, the journalists also mentioned the curious detail that both "Muslims" were actually Jews who'd converted to Islam, and (presumably with the zeal of the convert) decided to become fanatic pro-terrorist Muslims, willing and able to spend all their time outside a leading NYC mosque advocating terrorism and praising Osama bin Laden, except for the their visits to the CNN offices. Their distinctive New York Jewish accents seemed to have a clear Brooklyn tinge to me.

    Something tells me that both of them may have recently become fanatic Donald Trump supporters, and will give CNN interviews explaining that they support The Donald because they're 100% convinced that he plans to set up concentration camps for all American Jews, blacks, and homosexuals the moment he gets into office.

    Ha, ha, ha....
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  55. Josh says:
    @Steve Sailer
    He complains a lot about how he proved on 10/14/2002 that Saddam couldn't afford a nuclear bomb program anymore but nobody would listen to him.

    Oh…him.

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  56. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @Anonymous

    "For example, a friend applied for a job as a CIA analyst, but it took forever for the security checks so he took a job in private industry instead."
     
    Uh .... Steve.... you do realize that's exactly what he would have told you if he had been hired by the CIA?

    If he had been hired as a CIA analyst he would have said “I’ve been hired by the government in Virginia,” not “I’m moving to New Mexico.”

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  57. Josh says:
    @Stan D Mute

    As far as I can tell, U.S. intelligence is fairly hamstrung by fear of leaks and traitors. For example, a friend applied for a job as a CIA analyst, but it took forever for the security checks so he took a job in private industry instead.
     
    I once considered working for FBI or CIA. I got application packages from each. I had familial connection to CIA, but no relationship to FBI. The FBI package was at least 50 pages and required exhaustive detail including all schools attended and dates of attendance along with grades (do you have your third grade report cards?). They demanded all family connections to second cousin along with detail like date of birth and photos. It was, putting it mildly, incredibly over the top. The CIA application was a bit different. Again, I had some family connection including covert operatives one of whom lost his life in Turkey and another in Laos. But the CIA application package was two pages. I've had far more intrusive applications for corporate weenie jobs. Name, date of birth, SSN, address, college, and employment - that's all they wanted. What I took from this was that FBI is occupied by paper pushers, bureaucrats, lawyers, and accountants, demanding every i be dotted and every t crossed to cover their own asses. The CIA, on the other hand, is far more cowboy in orientation and looking more for specific attributes it can exploit in labor talent. It's easy to understand how the two organizations can spectacularly fail to work together.

    Or they can get your info for themselves, than you very much.

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  58. This Is Our Home [AKA "Robert Rediger"] says:
    @Seth Largo

    As far as I can tell, U.S. intelligence is fairly hamstrung by fear of leaks and traitors. For example, a friend applied for a job as a CIA analyst, but it took forever for the security checks
     
    Both the FBI and the CIA put potential hires through a battery of lie detector tests in which they are asked whether or not they've committed the most mundane of "illegal" acts, such as downloading music for free or parking in a handicap spot. If you admit it, you don't get hired. If you say you didn't, but the machine says you did, you don't get hired. Obviously, no young man in America is as squeaky clean as their standards demand; the result is that the spooks and G-men simply hire the best liars.

    If you broke the law, just tell the truth.

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    • Replies: @donut
    Not if you weren't convicted .
    , @ShaslA
    Doesn't work like that.
    , @SFG
    I think the point is the CIA actually wants good liars. Think about it--spies have to lie all the time as part of their jobs. It's a core skill.
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  59. Anonycat says:

    Graham Greene wonderfully captured the haphazard world of spycraft in Our Man in Havana, in which a lowly vacuum cleaner salesman gets recruited to spy for the Brits in Cuba. Things go haywire in a most comical fashion. Well worth reading, and the movie (with Ernie Kovacs) is decent, too.

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    • Agree: SPMoore8
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  60. tbraton says:
    @Bill Jones
    Fox News briefly did a piece on the Israeli spying

    http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article7545.htm

    It very quickly found its was down the memory tube.

    That’s what I remember seeing. Thanks for jogging my memory. It was a very well done piece, as I recall.

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  61. marty says:
    @Blobby5
    Is the use of 'pushy' antisemitic?

    I once knew a U. Chicago mba student who described another jew thusly: “he’ll do well in life, he’s pushy, obnoxious.”

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  62. Svigor says:

    I once considered working for FBI or CIA. I got application packages from each. I had familial connection to CIA, but no relationship to FBI. The FBI package was at least 50 pages and required exhaustive detail including all schools attended and dates of attendance along with grades (do you have your third grade report cards?). They demanded all family connections to second cousin along with detail like date of birth and photos. It was, putting it mildly, incredibly over the top.

    Ever watched The Americans? That’s why it was so “over the top”; they wanted to make sure you were born and raised here, and not living a cover story.

    Just guessing, but, the CIA, on the other hand, probably just had a different process; if they decided to hire you (probably a lot less likely than the FBI hiring you), they would then put you through the wringer.

    A disgruntled MOSSAD officer wrote an expose´ (“By Way of Deception”) that detailed how MOSSAD is small and poor, but punches above its weight by employing Jews to spy in their local countries and use their businesses to pay for it all. Sort of like how Pollard suddenly got employed on Wall Street or something. The actual professional case officers are very few in number, but who needs them when high-status Jews throughout the world will hook you up with either information or influence.

    IIRC, the word for these Jews is “sayanim.”

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    • Replies: @Mr. Anon
    "Ever watched The Americans? That’s why it was so “over the top”; they wanted to make sure you were born and raised here, and not living a cover story."

    The worst ever FBI mole, Robert Hanssen, was born and raised in America.

    I saw a couple episodes of "The Americans". It seemed ridiculous. I think it unlikely that it's a realistic portrayal of espionage (for example, I imagine that murdering a defector in your own garage is not a very smart thing for a deep-cover agent to do). Yeah, the show has some former spooks as technical advisors. Technical advisors often just get ignored by writers, directors, and producers.
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  63. Tracy says: • Website
    @Polymath
    Alas for paper storage and microfiche, when you could go over the entire paper, down to the classifieds. Go electronic, and that article may be in the oubliette.

    I do remember reading about a teenage Palestinian boy in Paterson saying, "Now they know how we feel."

    I do remember reading about a teenage Palestinian boy in Paterson saying, “Now they know how we feel.”

    That’s funny, because I was glued to the TV that day, almost mesmerized by what was going on, and know that video was played and replayed over and over — except one, which was of an Israeli saying exactly what you attribute above to some Palestinian teenager. That, I think, was the only video I didn’t see a hundred times that day (being hyperbolic here, obviously, with the “hundred” times, but straight-up about it). I’ve been unable to find that footage anywhere since, but I most definitely saw it. Once. On 9-11, during regular news broadcasts, on some channel such as CNN or FOX or whatever it was.

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    • Replies: @Bill Jones
    "The internet is forever" is only true about things that don't matter.
    , @onetwothree
    There were lots of people recording everything to VHS (or whatever) that day, so anything that was broadcast surely still exists.
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  64. Big Bill says:

    The recruiting is pretty simple. An Israeli agent goes on tour of the USA speaking at synagogues around the country on some innocuous subject.

    The rabbi who coordinates each whistlestop identifies likely helpers in the congregation who would be amenable to helping out.

    When the agent arrives in town, he speaks to each potential recruit privately and feels them out to see if they are willing to help. Perhaps they could provide a cover job for an Israeli agent. Maybe supply the Mossad with letterhead or business cards to provide cover. Or agree to be a mail drop, receiving mail and setting it aside for someone to pick up later.

    Not every Jew will agree to help, of course. But the nice thing–the thing that makes such low-key recruiting quite safe–is that no Jew would ever rat out a fellow Jew, even if he turns down the request and declines to assist the Mossad.

    This safety is enhanced by Jewish religious law. Being a “moser” (one who rats out a fellow Jew to gentiles) is a death penalty offense.

    Google “mosrim death penalty”.

    The same ethnic/racial solidarity also works for Muslim jihadis. This is why even “moderate” Muslims are an existential threat to the West. They can be counted on to look the other way and say nothing, particularly in Muslim ghettos like Molenbeek and Malmo.

    Mao got it right with his dictum about revolutionaries swimming through the local population like fish in the sea.

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    • Replies: @This Is Our Home

    This safety is enhanced by Jewish religious law. Being a “moser” (one who rats out a fellow Jew to gentiles) is a death penalty offense.
     
    I must have missed all those beheadings those damn Jews have done for 'mosing.'
    , @SFG
    It might actually be a way to attract sayanim--perhaps they work with receptive rabbis, and you could probably find one or two in major metropolitan areas--but mosrim? You think dentists in Scarsdale and college professors in Newton are running around beheading anyone?

    I have no clue how Israeli intelligence cultivates sources, but I doubt expecting Temple Emanu-El in the Miami suburbs to rub people out is part of it.
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  65. In a clear bit of white supremacist propaganda today, Jeff Bezos landed a rocket on its retractable landing gear after a sub-orbital launch mission. In the video, there was not even one Diversity. Obviously this is impossible – success without Diversities just cannot happen – and thus proves Bezos a racist.

    http://www.engadget.com/2015/11/24/blue-origin-reusable-rocket-landing/

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    • Replies: @Buzz Mohawk

    In a clear bit of white supremacist propaganda today, Jeff Bezos landed a rocket on its retractable landing gear after a sub-orbital launch mission.
     
    You might want to inform certain supergenius bloggers of this event. They are under the impression that nobody in America can launch a rocket anymore.

    Oh, BTW, we are still receiving cool data from the Pluto flyby that was accomplished recently by an American spacecraft launced on an American rocket.

    I know. This just doesn't fit here.

    Now back to your regular programming..."Somebody's up to something! And we have no control over it!..."
    , @Je Suis Charlie Martel
    Hilarious
    , @Romanian
    I'm a bit disappointed that SpaceX did not beat them to it. Blue Origin's stuff has been vaporware for some time and has engaged in some lame practices, like hiring SpaceX's people on propulsion and such after they had developed innovative tech (though, apparently, according to the Musk biography, his companies have a high turnover because he's hard to work with). The thing is that it was a bit of a lame attempt: the rocket reached space, not orbit, which requires much more energy and would have made the return much more difficult; the rocket is a lot smaller, because it's not meant to be usable, but a tech platform, while SpaceX attempts to land rockets after they have launched a payload. The near misses of SpaceX were thrilling in themselves, like the rocket falling just as it should have landed, but I appreciate what they were trying to do a bit more. Having just read the Musk biography that Tyler Cowen of MR recommended, I am convinced that I would not want to ever know him, except to discuss Mars a bit. Definitely not work for him. But he's the kind of person that gets things done, and SpaceX has accomplished more with less than Blue Origin. They stole the reusable rocket thunder in a cheap way, compared to how SpaceX was doing it. Yes, I'm a cheerleader. Still, at least things are finally moving. Maybe my children will have their flying cars and Mars bases.
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  66. I live in Bergen County, New Jersey. Today the county’s newspaper, The Record, published an interesting article about the accusations that local Moslems celebrated the 9/11 attacks.

    Most of the accusations were about Moslems in Jersey City, which is in Hudson County, and Paterson, which is in Passaic County. Since Bergen County is between those two counties, The Record actively investigated the accusations.

    On that day, 9/11, there indeed was a “deluge” of accusations from local people who said they personally saw such celebrations. Many such accusations were reported and discussed on local talk-radio stations. So, accusations about celebrating Moslems were exceptionally intense in this geographic area.

    Law enforcement officials, civil rights advocates and news reporters who were working in the immediate aftermath of the attacks said Monday that they were deluged with calls and emails from people who claimed to have witnessed celebrations in Jersey City and Paterson, but that they had found no persuasive evidence to back up any of those accounts.

    …. the rumors were started when people called in reported sightings of Muslims celebrating in New Jersey to a New York City talk radio station. ….

    The Record … reported on Sept 13, 2001, that rumors of Muslim celebrations were unfounded but that the story had been difficult to dispel, “moving briskly through e-mails, telephone conversations, and at least one radio show.”

    John Chadwick, a former Record reporter, said he went to Paterson at least three times on that Sept. 12 to check out dozens of tips that Muslims were celebrating, only to find the streets vacated and most of the stores closed.

    “I’ve never experienced such a disconnect,” Chadwick said. “Not only was there no celebration, there was like nobody around. The shops seemed to be closed. There was nobody on the streets. I sensed that people were just scared.”

    For days afterward, Chadwick said, he continued to receive emails from readers who said they had seen televised reports of celebrations and wanted to know why the paper was not covering it.

    “I would try to respond, ‘ If you saw this, let us know what channel was it? What was the news source?” Chadwick said. “Nobody ever came forward.” …

    [Jerry] Spagnola, the former Paterson police chief, traced the origin of the story to television news reports shortly after the attacks that showed images of people protesting in the Middle East then flashed to pictures of empty streets in Paterson, where announcers explained, there is a large Muslim population. ….

    http://www.northjersey.com/news/trump-s-comments-of-9-11-celebrations-in-n-j-renew-long-standing-debate-1.1461485

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    • Replies: @Mike Sylwester
    Yesterday, I collected from the Internet the following statements of people about Moslems seen celebrating in New Jersey on 9/11.

    I drove with family members though Patterson, N.J. that morning, after the planes hit. It’s not the kind of thing you forget. We witnessed people in traditional Muslim garb dancing, jumping, shouting and celebrating like their team had won the Super Bowl, just as Trump said.

    I didn’t see thousands of Muslims celebrating but I absolutely saw a pocket, perhaps 100, jumping for joy at the sight of the smoke rising from where the Twin Towers used to be. .... these events were a commonly accepted fact by Jerseyans.

    --------

    I had my business on Pennsylvania Ave in Paterson, N.J. I saw people on Crooks Ave. and Main Street cheering and raising Middle Eastern flags.

    I’ll tell you exactly where I was. I had stopped in at Biggs bagels on crooks ave by the railroad tracks. I was wondering why all these crazy people were cheering. Find out a few minutes later America was under attack. I saw it with my own eyes.

    I witnessed pure evil. Donald Trump is right.”

    --------

    What was happening is that they were in stores or small gathering cheering and when they were noticed they stopped. that is what happened when my sister saw them after she got gas and looked in the store to find someone to pay. she saw them gathered around a tv cheering and jumping up and down. When they saw her they stopped, I am sure that's what a lot of people are talking about. Many were seen celebrating. So the police would not have been aware, as in my sister's case. I had heard many stories like that throughout New Jersey.

    -------

    They were in the streets banging on the cars trying to drive through the crowd in the street. The muslims were shouting death to Americans and allah is great [and] other crap I didn't understand. We were amused until a car with 3 young women mistakenly turned on to main st.

    The muslims were banging on their windows and screaming, thats when we came out of our car and pushed the muslims off their car helped them back out and get back to the parkway.

    -------

    I experienced/ witnessed many incidents of Muslims celebrating 9/11 in North Brunswick. I was in a grocery store when I heard the plane crashed on the store radio. The Muslim man in line next to me turned and spit on me. I'll never forget it.

    -------

    I live in Hudson County. It did happen in West New York. Saw it with my own eyes. I don't need a media outlet to tell me what I witnessed just a few feet from me. People in cars, honking they're horns and waiving their flags.

    ------

    I saw black and Arab people in NEWARK PATH MARK SUPERMARKET - dancing and cheering as the TOWERS BURNED !!! and in JERSEY CITY - pockets of people in the streets shouting and laughing - TRUMP IS CORRECT

    -------

    So when I was driving a bus threw paterson that day in the morning to see it and other people seen as well ..does it mean we where dreaming of what took place...

    --------

    I saw it FIRST HAND! I drove an ambulance all over NJ. They were celebrating in the streets. I always wonder why they were never rounded up and sent to their homeland.

    -------

    It absolutely happened in Paterson. The police even had some of the streets closed off to traffic because of it. I was in Paterson on the 12th for business and the whole area around Crooks Avenue was covered in people celebrating.

    ----------

    Want proof that Muslims celebrated as they heard of 9/11 attacks? 100s of young men laughing, dancing, cheering; I saw them.

    ----------

    The Muslims were celebrating until they realized the backlash soon to follow. I saw it.

    ----------

    I saw it, too. The day and age we live in doesn't change the fact that Muslims did in fact party after 9/11 in jersey city. Love or hate trump, it happened

    ----------

    There is a service station in my town, near Edison, NJ, it was owned by Muslims at the time of 9-11. Many members of our community saw the workers there celebrating that day. That station was shunned by the locals as word spread and was eventually sold to new owners.

    [follow-up comment:]

    I'm a liberal Democrat and I saw the same thing from the Palestinian workers on 30th Street and 11th Avenue gas service station. Its closed now.

    ----------

    I lived and grew up in South Paterson NJ. I knew lots of people in law enforcement. Someone I knew at the time from the Passaic County's Prosecutors office told me that there were hundreds of people dancing in the streets when the Towers were attacked. Moreover, Paterson police were keeping people out of the city lest they felt it appropriate to attack some of the revelers. ....

    ----------

    I was a volunteer firefighter sent to the Hoboken FD to cover their turf while they were in NYC. I saw it with my own eyes while going through Jersey City too.

    ----------

    I lived in northwest nj...and yes, they were celebrating in patterson...not thousands but a couple of hundred.... WE SAW IT and will NEVER forget it!

    ----------

    It certainly did happen! I worked in Jersey City that day!

    ----------

    I actually saw them in Patterson NJ. I was one of the people who had to hold back fellow firefighters from going back there to fight with them.

    ----------

    I work in Paterson New Jersey. Many residents I've spoken to recently remember the celebrations that day. 2 were police officers called to protect the Muslims from others who were upset by the display. They (Muslims) danced and cheered. They still live here.

    ----------

    I was there. I saw it too. I was working in Hoboken, and drove through Jersey City and Newark back and forth to my home. Muslims were there. They were celebrating.

    ----------

    I do remember seeing this. This is one of those politically incorrect things we want to forget about 9/11. .... I do remember those Muslims who were celebrating and chanting/yelling in the streets in New Jersey. To say they represented all Muslims is a lie. To say they did not exist is also a lie.

    ----------

    I lived in Hoboken at the time and while I didn't witness these celebrations, I know plenty of people (i.e. former co-workers) who did.

    ----------

    This is true the people of Jersey City took to the streets in riot on Journal Square the reports where telling people to stay away.

    ----------

    Yes he is right I live in NJ and witnessed children stomping on a flag that fell off a car while their parents laughed . Let the truth be told

    ----------

    I saw in Paterson, N.J. about 30 to 50 men yelling and cheering in the street.waving their flags...

    ----------

    I lived in Staten Island new york at the time of 911 attacks .... Later that day, i went to liquor store on forest ave. There were young Muslim men, on the roof toop, waving a flag, as I enter the store about 5 young men, Muslims were smiling and dancing as they gave me candy. .... I latter went into a small grouciers store on Muslim men young and old were cheering when they were listen to the radio. ....
     
    http://nj1015.com/former-gov-difrancesco-i-dont-remember-people-celebrating-911-in-nj/

    https://www.facebook.com/nj1015/posts/10153456648123451

    http://www.bizpacreview.com/2015/11/23/live-jersey-trump-right-muslims-celebrate-911-nj-saw-277082

    http://www.northjersey.com/news/trump-s-comments-of-9-11-celebrations-in-n-j-renew-long-standing-debate-1.1461485
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  67. Svigor says:

    Russian entry into Turkish airspace lasted ‘seconds’: U.S. official

    WASHINGTON (Reuters) – The United States believes Russia’s incursion into Turkish airspace on Tuesday likely lasted only a matter of seconds before Turkey shot down a Russian warplane, a U.S. official said, saying the assessment was based on preliminary indications.

    The official, who spoke on condition of anonymity, said the United States was still investigating the incident.

    Damage control? Seems like US unofficially admitting within hours that the Turks were itching to shoot down a Russian plane.

    Read More
    • Replies: @tbraton
    Any peep of protest from the U.S. or EU about the steady stream of rubber rafts carrying "Syrian refugees" from Turkey to Lesbos and thereby violating the territorial waters of Greece?
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  68. WhatEvvs [AKA "Internet Addict"] says:
    @Steve Sailer
    John Updike's last novel "Terrorist" was about a Muslim kid in Paterson, NJ who becomes a terrorist.

    There was a real case of a nice kid from the NYC area who grew up to be a famous (in the Muslim world) propagandist: Margaret Marcus, a Jewish woman. Someone wrote a book about her, “The Convert,” which wasn’t too good. She was kind of an interesting character. Most of her kids ended up emigrating to the US and operating gas stations and stuff.

    Read More
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  69. WhatEvvs [AKA "Internet Addict"] says:

    OT, the front page of the NYT has the shooting of 5 people at a Black Lives Matter rally. No word on the 16 shot at the hippity hop party in New Orleans.

    Read More
    • Replies: @TangoMan
    Here is the BBC reporting the same story. Notice how they discard the reporting rule of not mentioning the race of the shooters.

    Three white men wearing masks have shot five people protesting about the fatal police shooting of a black man in Minneapolis, say witnesses.
     
    , @Hippopotamusdrome
    Counter protest at BLM protest. BLM'ers chase away counter protesters and pursue them down the street. Then pursuing party gets shot at.

    5 People Shot Near BLM Protest
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  70. jackmcg says:
    @nglaer
    http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2015/11/22/dnc_vice_chair_tulsi_gabbard_toppling_secular_dicators_like_hussein_qaddafi_assad_is_counterproductive_because_is_directly_helps_isis__al-qaeda.html

    Trump should choose Tulsi Gabbard, would send a lot of good and confusing signals.

    I wouldn’t put any VP choice past him. I wonder if Gabbard is down for the immigration cause though.

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  71. @Stan D Mute

    As far as I can tell, U.S. intelligence is fairly hamstrung by fear of leaks and traitors. For example, a friend applied for a job as a CIA analyst, but it took forever for the security checks so he took a job in private industry instead.
     
    I once considered working for FBI or CIA. I got application packages from each. I had familial connection to CIA, but no relationship to FBI. The FBI package was at least 50 pages and required exhaustive detail including all schools attended and dates of attendance along with grades (do you have your third grade report cards?). They demanded all family connections to second cousin along with detail like date of birth and photos. It was, putting it mildly, incredibly over the top. The CIA application was a bit different. Again, I had some family connection including covert operatives one of whom lost his life in Turkey and another in Laos. But the CIA application package was two pages. I've had far more intrusive applications for corporate weenie jobs. Name, date of birth, SSN, address, college, and employment - that's all they wanted. What I took from this was that FBI is occupied by paper pushers, bureaucrats, lawyers, and accountants, demanding every i be dotted and every t crossed to cover their own asses. The CIA, on the other hand, is far more cowboy in orientation and looking more for specific attributes it can exploit in labor talent. It's easy to understand how the two organizations can spectacularly fail to work together.

    The FBI package was at least 50 pages and required exhaustive detail including all schools attended and dates of attendance along with grades (do you have your third grade report cards?). They demanded all family connections to second cousin along with detail like date of birth and photos. It was, putting it mildly, incredibly over the top

    Shouldn’t this be subject to a ‘disparate impact’ challenge? If you moved to America as a young child from the chaotic Third World then it might be hard to prove family connections or school grades.

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    • Replies: @Stan D Mute

    Shouldn’t this be subject to a ‘disparate impact’ challenge? If you moved to America as a young child from the chaotic Third World then it might be hard to prove family connections or school grades.

     

    Great observation! In fact, this was back in the early 1990's so predates the "disparate impact" era. I'd expect that today a letter from your Imam or village witch doctor in crayon or goat blood would suffice for an "above top secret" clearance and GS15 job.
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  72. @Tracy

    I do remember reading about a teenage Palestinian boy in Paterson saying, “Now they know how we feel.”
     
    That's funny, because I was glued to the TV that day, almost mesmerized by what was going on, and know that video was played and replayed over and over -- except one, which was of an Israeli saying exactly what you attribute above to some Palestinian teenager. That, I think, was the only video I didn't see a hundred times that day (being hyperbolic here, obviously, with the "hundred" times, but straight-up about it). I've been unable to find that footage anywhere since, but I most definitely saw it. Once. On 9-11, during regular news broadcasts, on some channel such as CNN or FOX or whatever it was.

    “The internet is forever” is only true about things that don’t matter.

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  73. Truth says:
    Read More
    • Replies: @SPMoore8
    I really don't see the relevance of this unless the shooters were members of the Woodrow Wilson Brigade or the Stanford White Power Legion (that would be SWPL, for short).

    On the other hand, it would be relatively simple to cherry pick stories about black assailants assaulting whites, amirite?
    , @D. K.
    Yeah, you people sure can pick your victims, martyrs and heroes, Zippi:

    http://www.vdare.com/posts/look-how-the-minneapolis-star-tribune-describes-a-black-mob-attack-on-white-protesters-five-people-shot-near-black-lives-matter-protest-in-minneapolis
    , @D. K.
    Here, in full, is a comment, from another Web site, about an actual murder (and sexual-assault) victim:

    "Amanda Blackburn was in the wrong place at the wrong time; she was in the confines of her own home 150 years after emancipation and 50 years after LBJ's War on Poverty."
    , @AnotherDad
    Truth, believe it or not, white people have rights to.

    BLM is protesting--the death of a serial criminal and girlfriend beater--on public property. Despite some BLM flack talking about "people who did not belong there", white anti-pro-thuggery protesters *also* have the right to be there and protest the protesters.

    Unfortunately, most blacks (like a lot of leftists) can not fathom the concept of people being allow to disagree with them, so unsurprisingly BLM types try and chase these counter protesters off. And indeed apparently had them on the run.

    Wasn't there, but i'll say, i'd rather shoot than let a black mob (even a mob of two or three) catch me. Blacks readily assault whites (and each other). Once down they'll kick and stomp you. You're lucky if you don't end up with serious injury, or being a vegetable, or dead.

    George Zimmerman would quite likely be a vegetable in some hospital if he hadn't been packing when attacked by the thug Trayvon Martin, who was witnessed raining down blows "MMA sytle" and smacking Zimmerman's head into the sidewalk.

    Here, we had this kid Kris Kime at Mardi Gras about 15 years back, who went to the assistance of a girl some black thugs were assaulting and had knocked down. For his trouble, some black thug whacked him on the head, knocking him down where upon a bunch of black thugs started kicking the crap outta him ... while Seattle police--obeying the PC orders of their leftist political bosses--just stood around the sidelines watching.

    Whites who are going to be around blacks are smart to be armed. Especially if you're in a "progressive" jurisdiction where PC is turning the police into useless timeservers while feral blacks run free. And if attacked they *should* fire. Hey, the state will no doubt try to railroad you--like they tried with Zimmerman. But better to end up in prison, then beaten and stomped dead like Kris Kime.

    ~~~
    Truth, i know you have a different take on the capabilities and behavior of your people. And that's fine.

    The simple approach that works for your folks and my folks--separation. Your people run your affairs--have the level of policing and tolerate the level of violence that your people desire. And my people run our affairs and have the level of policing and intolerance for thuggery and violence that we find allows for civilized life. Win-win.

    , @tbraton
    "Uh Oh!…Part LXII!"

    I hate to inform you, but you are in clear violation of the NFL's exclusive license from the Romans to use Roman numerals. Pay up!
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  74. @Tracy

    I do remember reading about a teenage Palestinian boy in Paterson saying, “Now they know how we feel.”
     
    That's funny, because I was glued to the TV that day, almost mesmerized by what was going on, and know that video was played and replayed over and over -- except one, which was of an Israeli saying exactly what you attribute above to some Palestinian teenager. That, I think, was the only video I didn't see a hundred times that day (being hyperbolic here, obviously, with the "hundred" times, but straight-up about it). I've been unable to find that footage anywhere since, but I most definitely saw it. Once. On 9-11, during regular news broadcasts, on some channel such as CNN or FOX or whatever it was.

    There were lots of people recording everything to VHS (or whatever) that day, so anything that was broadcast surely still exists.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    For example, the four part Fox series from that era on Israeli spying on the U.S. by Carl Cameron (?) was spiked but exists in a lot of nooks of the Internet.
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  75. @Steve Sailer
    There are a whole bunch of websites run by Jews that evaluate how Jewish various celebrities are. My impression is that gentiles have no clue how much mental energy Jews devote to such questions.

    You are correct about this. Some Jews also don’t grasp how much other Jews devote to this. After 40 years of marriage, my father’s side of the family is still flabbergasted at how much energy my mother’s side of the family spends on this.

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    • Replies: @el topo
    This is true. As a partial Jew, I have always been fascinated with the question of Jewishness and am able to view it from different angles, as it were. I also have an extremely keen Jewdar and am able to spot Jews and mischlings quite accurately.
    I have friends who are full Jews, however, who seem not at all interested in their Jewishness and completely downplay its significance, though they have many obviously Jewish traits (and typical liberal Jewish politics).
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  76. jackmcg says:
    @Hapalong Cassidy
    I admit, the "Dancing Israelis" did come to mind when Trump went off on his latest rant. Perhaps he's trying to send some kind of coded signal to the Deep Staters, basically saying "I KNOW, so you better think twice on how far you want to push me."

    But more likely, he was probably thinking of the footage of Palistinians dancing in the streets over in Israel. I clearly remember all of the networks showing that footage. It's easy to see how memories could become jumbled on that day. If I were him, I'd at least backtrack on the "thousands and thousands" part. I know he doesn't like to admit he's wrong, but I don't think even his most hardcore supporters will think less of him for it.

    Yes, Trump is good at this.

    Most conspicuously, he says “Border Walls work… ask Israel how well they work.”

    Some doubt his sincerity, and I get that, but I believe Trump is an alt-righter with the right touch of conspiracy theory who would find himself right at home in these corners of the internet.

    I know they say he’s “not politically correct”, but I think he knows when to be politically correct, while still tracing the edges of this stuff so that it makes all of us think “he knows!”.

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  77. @onetwothree
    There were lots of people recording everything to VHS (or whatever) that day, so anything that was broadcast surely still exists.

    For example, the four part Fox series from that era on Israeli spying on the U.S. by Carl Cameron (?) was spiked but exists in a lot of nooks of the Internet.

    Read More
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  78. Okay, I’ll ask — did you ever take a Spanish class at Glendale College … ? If so, do you remember a fellow student named Dan Harmon?

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  79. In the year 2000, my home in San Jose was visited by two very attractive young ladies who characterized themselves as “Israeli art students,” and claimed to be selling paintings door-to-door. At the time, I was living with my father (due to the fact I’d recently spent a year in the county jail, as a result of my 20something involvement in some embarrassingly imbecile shenanigans, pertaining to a right-wing extremist organization that was very active during the 1990s), and my father was the chief-of-maintenance for a large industrial facility in Silicon Valley (one that most definitely had potential national security-related implications; they weren’t designing social media apps, LOL). Anyhoo, over the course of the next two weeks, both my father and I kept running into these same “Israeli art students” all over town, in San Jose, in Sunnyvale, in Palo Alto…seemingly wherever we went. I was told I was “paranoid,” for believing they were following us, but realistically, I don’t see any other possibility. They tried to get into the facility where my father worked, at one point, but were denied access.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Boomstick
    When I had a small office in an office park I used to get regular cold calls from "art salesmen." Their schtick was to say that they had some art that had been ordered by someone else in the building but that they had since moved out. Rather than take the art back they said they'd cut a deal and give it to me for a rock bottom price.

    They were just selling cheap knockoff Ansel Adams reproductions, obviously without paying any licensing fees. The story was about cancelled orders was just part of the sales pitch. There are plenty of similar scams, including door-to-door meat salesmen. One of the most famous is the "white box speaker" sales guys. They'll cadge you in parking lots and tell you they were making a delivery on expensive stereo speakers, but the deal fell through. Rather than take them back they'll sell you these top-flight speakers for a low, low price. The speakers are actually crap and the price is inflated, but the story helps make the sale.

    If the "Israeli art students" were actually spies I'd expect them to conceal their foreign extraction. From an information gathering standpoint it's a negative to volunteer that information, but probably a positive for making sales of overpriced art.
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  80. @Seth
    The idea that these guys were up to anything in particular is absurd.

    They were filming the WTC as it burned...like everyone else with a camera in a two mile radius. On tv later one of them said in bad English that he was "documenting" the event and the loonies took that to mean that he had been sent there to do it.

    Why would the Mossad need to have the most spectacular event in American history specially "documented?"

    NYC is filled with illegal immigrants who say they are tourists and are doing some work in the meantime. Not unusual.

    Movers are often paid in cash. $4700 among 4 people may sound like a lot of money to some fevered conspiracy theorist but if that was all their money it's really not that much.

    It is revealing the parts you attempt to explain and the other aspects you choose not to address.

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  81. MW says:
    @AndrewR
    Lmao! I've seen some funny comments on this site but yours takes the cake. You could write for Family Guy.

    As absurd as it sounds to an American, this is exactly what my Israeli cousin did, though “vacation” might be a misleading word. It is very common for young Israelis to take a few years after their army service and putter around the world, working as necessary. And there are lots of Israeli moving companies in the US, for whatever reason. So when my cousin needed work after a month or two doing nothing, he reached out to a childhood friend of his who, sure enough, ran a moving company in the US.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Karl
    >>> It is very common for young Israelis to take a few years after their army service and putter around the world, working as necessary


    "Just out of the service
    And he's looking for his fun"



    http://www.lyricsmode.com/lyrics/j/judy_collins/someday_soon.html
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  82. SPMoore8 says:
    @Truth
    Uh Oh!...Part LXII!

    Be careful what you axe for.

    http://qz.com/558326/white-men-shot-several-people-at-a-black-lives-matter-rally-in-minneapolis/?utm_source=YPL

    I really don’t see the relevance of this unless the shooters were members of the Woodrow Wilson Brigade or the Stanford White Power Legion (that would be SWPL, for short).

    On the other hand, it would be relatively simple to cherry pick stories about black assailants assaulting whites, amirite?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Truth


    it would be relatively simple to cherry pick stories about black assailants assaulting whites, amirite?
     
    From having been on this site for 9 years...I would concur.
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  83. D. K. says:
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  84. sprfls says:
    @jtgw
    Israel seems to work on trust in many ways. E.g. how exactly do they verify your Jewishness when you apply for citizenship there? It would seem to be something easy to fake, and yet Israel is pretty good at keeping itself Jewish.

    Who said they do a good job? Obviously I don’t know the exact numbers here, but for example a significant amount of non-Jewish Soviets emigrated to Israel in the 80s and 90s.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Dave Pinsen
    I would think Israel's laxity regarding that post-Soviet wave was intentional. Israel's leaders likely saw it as a demographic bulwark against Arabs as well as against Mizrahi Jews.
    , @cwhatfuture
    The standards for immigration are not so high - as long as you have one Jewish grandparent, you qualify. But the standards for marriage and children and those children being registered as Jewish are very high. That falls under the rabbis and they are strict. Many, if not most, of the non-Jewish soviets who arrived then have long ago left Israel by the way. And why would they stay in Israel which is under constant pressure and low level terror, when you can get to Europe, or Canada or even the US? Canada especially is favored because education is valued in their immigration system. Israel has been far more successful than Europe in keeping out unwanted populations. Israel has also been incredibly successful in having their Jewish immigrants become "Israelified", to make up a word.
    , @Karl
    >> Who said they do a good job?

    Ever since the 1750's (first publication of a Hebrew-language mathematics school-text), nationalistic Zionism has been almost completely led by non-religious Jews.

    It is easily possible to paint the picture that "Judaism" as a stand-alone, organized "religion", didn't really exist until after the Roman destruction of the Second Temple. Hebrew kings - up to & including Herod - never (to my memory of the bible) tried to dual-hat themselves as a High Priest. Actually, quite a few of them used tax monies to support pagan shrines. The municipality of Jerusalem still gives away free Christmas trees every year. In fact, it's going to happen in a coupla weeks.


    Even deep within the bowels of the Temple bureaucracy itself, the King always had total control of crowd-control and even liturgical arrangements. 1 Chronicles 25. Kinda like mosques nowadays in the Gulf states?

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  85. Bugg says:

    Perhaps the media that is so interested in Donald Trump’s description of 9/11 Muslim celebrations in the tri-state area might like to follow up on these verified facts-

    http://www.prisonplanet.com/prior_knowledge_of_sept_11_not_

    “What are you looking at?” asked the schoolteacher as she approached one of her freshman students. The boy, a young Palestinian, seemed captivated as he stared out the window across Brooklyn toward the lower downtown area of Manhattan.
    “Do you see those two buildings?” he asked while pointing toward the World Trade Center. “They won’t be standing there next week.” It was noon, Sept. 6, 2001″.

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  86. Israel does not pick intelligence agents at random, nor do they “trust” any Jewish Israeli or foreign Jew. They pick intelligence agents from the pool of army recruits. They have the full intelligence and physical and pyschological profile of every 18 year old Israeli. And from that pool, they do not pick idiots. The same pool provides the persons they use to screen at airports. To survive in Israel’s neighborhood, you need a good intelligence agency, not one staffed by illegals working at a US moving company.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Drakejax
    Don't confuse professional intelligence agents, who in Israel's case are very well vetted and trained, with the thousands of various contacts and assets they utilize. A German just got convicted for having been retained by the CIA; he worked as a mail handler for the German intelligence agency. The German was the asset, the actual "agents" worked in another country.
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  87. Whiskey says: • Website

    Instapundit here references the Washington Post Sept 18, 2001 referring to tailgate viewing parties in Jersey watching and celebrating the Twin Towers collapse. Referencing Muslims.

    Muslims around the nation celebrated and danced in the streets, which was reported, just barely, at the time.

    Trump was/is correct.
    —————————–
    As for intelligence, the US has been very, very bad as has British intelligence in human sources, but very, very, VERY good in technical intelligence. We and the British were reading in near real time in WWII German and Japanese codes down to battlefield movements. We had an enourmous lead in satellite spying which combined with the U2 and SR72 gave us good ideas of the general abilities and intentions of the Soviets (a key reason we did not launch a nuclear attack in the dark). We tapped undersea cables the Soviets thought were impossible to tap.

    Recently the US/Israeli intelligence effort to hamper Iran’s nuclear program was entirely technical. Stuxnet was very successful.

    Human sources are generally over-rated. They are too subject to bias and tale-telling (Ahmed Chalabi), turning and doubling, and often merely duplicate the tremendous amount of open source information that can be collated and analyzed.

    I would be EXTREMELY dubious of “Israeli” citizens — since a non trivial portion are Arab Muslims. There is also a thriving Israeli organized crime movement.

    The CEO of say, Teva, who was refused an Avis Rental Car by a couple of Black female service reps because he was Israeli, is highly unlikely to be either a spy or a criminal. The real threat as always comes from insiders, Robert Hanssen, Aldric Ames, Jonathon Pollard, the Walker family. And its usually related to sex or money or both.

    Read More
    • Replies: @nglaer
    Instapundit here references the Washington Post Sept 18, 2001 referring to tailgate viewing parties in Jersey watching and celebrating the Twin Towers collapse. Referencing Muslims.

    Muslims around the nation celebrated and danced in the streets, which was reported, just barely, at the time.

    Trump was/is correct.


    Thank you Whiskey. Am not usually on your ideological wavelength. This, (or instapundit's) is an important factoid. My optimism is restored.
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  88. @Wally
    Speaking of non-Jewish names, I always thought Kirk Douglas was pretty ironic.

    “Kirk Douglas” was, effectively, a stage name. He was born Issur Danielovitch.

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    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    And he was born in Amsterdam.

    But not that Amsterdam.
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  89. I recall seeing a youtube clip of a western news channel misrepresenting Palestinian celebration as American muslim celebration. That could be what people say they saw on TV.

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  90. @jackmcg
    O/T I can't remember if I've posted this here or not but I've made a prediction that Hillary will choose a hispanic man for VP. Another woman steals her thunder, a white man isn't "progress", an asian man too irrelevant, a well-spoken black man in very short supply. A Hispanic male VP charges up her side of the immigration vote. I'm sure there are a couple possible choices in the Dem. party somewhere.

    As for the republicans, if its Trump he's completely unpredictable. If its an establishment candidate, it looks like they cut a deal with Kasich to get the VP role in exchange for leading the attack against Trump.

    “I can’t remember if I’ve posted this here or not but I’ve made a prediction that Hillary will choose a hispanic man for VP. Another woman steals her thunder, a white man isn’t “progress”, an asian man too irrelevant, a well-spoken black man in very short supply. A Hispanic male VP charges up her side of the immigration vote. I’m sure there are a couple possible choices in the Dem. party somewhere.”

    Hillary has all but stated her intent to nominate HUD Secretary Julian* Castro as her Veep. Steve’s talked about it, actually.

    *Pronounced “whoolian,” for all you micro-aggressing sh*tlords who had the temerity to suppose he pronounced it like the old Roman Emperor

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    • Replies: @NOTA
    So, how'd the emperor pronounce it? I assume not all that close to the English pronunciation, but I really don't know.
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  91. Whiskey says: • Website

    Re foreknowledge of the 9/11 attack. Well, yes, just as the French had a pretty good idea that something was coming in Paris before that most recent attack, and also before Charlie Hebdo. There was unusual jihadi behavior and chatter, and intelligence chiefs were nervous.

    Nothing was done because of PC. Anyone advocating action was tarred with Islamaphobia, and racism, so everyone just sat around. The action to be done was extremely tight border controls, interviews, massive mobilization of the police and security forces. Nothing like that could be done or would be done until after.

    Now, we either have a secret war like that against the OAS during De Gaulle’s term, or simply deport lots of Muslims. I suspect neither will happen in the West, instead ever increasing Jihadi attacks because the killing is the point, of domination and control. Until things just snap.

    Reasonable reform measures that produce safety and security while not being horrible and vicious are impossible because of the dependency of the elite of bashing Bad Whites for social signaling and social unity; along with Muslim votes in Europe and Black votes in the US.

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    • Agree: Jim Don Bob
    • Replies: @bomag
    Until things just snap

    Ha! More like the West just lies down and dies.
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  92. Svigor says:

    I really don’t see the relevance of this unless the shooters were members of the Woodrow Wilson Brigade or the Stanford White Power Legion (that would be SWPL, for short).

    On the other hand, it would be relatively simple to cherry pick stories about black assailants assaulting whites, amirite?

    Man’s just fighting with whatever weapon is at hand. Not his fault whites don’t give him much.

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  93. @Stan D Mute
    In a clear bit of white supremacist propaganda today, Jeff Bezos landed a rocket on its retractable landing gear after a sub-orbital launch mission. In the video, there was not even one Diversity. Obviously this is impossible - success without Diversities just cannot happen - and thus proves Bezos a racist.

    http://www.engadget.com/2015/11/24/blue-origin-reusable-rocket-landing/

    In a clear bit of white supremacist propaganda today, Jeff Bezos landed a rocket on its retractable landing gear after a sub-orbital launch mission.

    You might want to inform certain supergenius bloggers of this event. They are under the impression that nobody in America can launch a rocket anymore.

    Oh, BTW, we are still receiving cool data from the Pluto flyby that was accomplished recently by an American spacecraft launced on an American rocket.

    I know. This just doesn’t fit here.

    Now back to your regular programming…”Somebody’s up to something! And we have no control over it!…”

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    • Replies: @D. K.
    American kids have been launching rockets, on their own, for generations, by now, haven't they? Can any of them, say, take astronauts to and from the International Space Station, these days? Can Jeff Bezos' boys perform that service, now? By the way, just to refresh our collective memory, what was the actual launch date of that Pluto fly-by, Buzz?
    , @5371
    So a billionaire scumbag can fly 100 km up and then land, which the X-15 could do sixty years ago, but unlike the X-15 he can't choose where to go or where to land and can't put anyone aboard. BFD.
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  94. D. K. says:
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  95. D. K. says:
    @Buzz Mohawk

    In a clear bit of white supremacist propaganda today, Jeff Bezos landed a rocket on its retractable landing gear after a sub-orbital launch mission.
     
    You might want to inform certain supergenius bloggers of this event. They are under the impression that nobody in America can launch a rocket anymore.

    Oh, BTW, we are still receiving cool data from the Pluto flyby that was accomplished recently by an American spacecraft launced on an American rocket.

    I know. This just doesn't fit here.

    Now back to your regular programming..."Somebody's up to something! And we have no control over it!..."

    American kids have been launching rockets, on their own, for generations, by now, haven’t they? Can any of them, say, take astronauts to and from the International Space Station, these days? Can Jeff Bezos’ boys perform that service, now? By the way, just to refresh our collective memory, what was the actual launch date of that Pluto fly-by, Buzz?

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  96. Svigor says:

    Take that! Obama: Climate summit a ‘powerful rebuke’ to terrorists

    President Obama declared Tuesday that next week’s climate change summit in Paris would be a “powerful rebuke” to terrorists

    What a maroon.

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    • Replies: @donut
    Did he specify which terrorists he means ?
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  97. Drakejax says:
    @cwhatfuture
    Israel does not pick intelligence agents at random, nor do they "trust" any Jewish Israeli or foreign Jew. They pick intelligence agents from the pool of army recruits. They have the full intelligence and physical and pyschological profile of every 18 year old Israeli. And from that pool, they do not pick idiots. The same pool provides the persons they use to screen at airports. To survive in Israel's neighborhood, you need a good intelligence agency, not one staffed by illegals working at a US moving company.

    Don’t confuse professional intelligence agents, who in Israel’s case are very well vetted and trained, with the thousands of various contacts and assets they utilize. A German just got convicted for having been retained by the CIA; he worked as a mail handler for the German intelligence agency. The German was the asset, the actual “agents” worked in another country.

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    • Replies: @cwhatfuture
    The implication in several of the posts here is that very low level assets (the moving company illegals) would have had knowledge of a Mossad plot on 9/11. That is absurd. That would mean the Israeli intelligence agency would be staffed by idiots and that persons posting on this blog and various internet nuts would have uncovered the great secret. If the Mossad can penetrate Iran and kill Iranian nuclear scientists, which by all accounts they did, despite the scientists being under tight guard and despite the Iranians being aware the Israelis had every intention of killing them, no one on this blog has uncovered anything at all about the Mossad. Or maybe I am a secret Mossad Elks Club Masonic Temple Super "Shabbo Goy" - as someone here so eloquently put it.
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  98. Dave Pinsen says: • Website
    @sprfls
    Who said they do a good job? Obviously I don't know the exact numbers here, but for example a significant amount of non-Jewish Soviets emigrated to Israel in the 80s and 90s.

    I would think Israel’s laxity regarding that post-Soviet wave was intentional. Israel’s leaders likely saw it as a demographic bulwark against Arabs as well as against Mizrahi Jews.

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    • Replies: @AnotherDad

    I would think Israel’s laxity regarding that post-Soviet wave was intentional. Israel’s leaders likely saw it as a demographic bulwark against Arabs as well as against Mizrahi Jews.
     
    Do these truly non-Jewish Russians actually stick in Israel? I'd think almost all of them who don't identify as Jewish would have tried to get on the US. (There sure seem to be a heck of a lot of Russians--and other ex-Soviets--swarming around these days.) Israel seems like a nice place, but it's a nice place for a particular people. If you don't really identify as Jewish i don't see why you'd stick there.

    ~~~

    Not up on things Israeli, but my very rough take:
    -- they've gotten the Arab fertility down now to near replacement--and they can always decide (at high political cost) to toss Arabs out.
    -- their long term demographic future is most endangered by the Haredi who have incredibly high (African level) fertility but are absolute parasites, sucking up welfare and (legally) dodging military service; they used to be trivial but are now broaching 10% of the population and will rapidly expand--given their fertility--beyond that

    I hate parasites--high, low and in-between. They are a cancer. They suck the life from nations and need to be rooted out, suppressed or tossed out. I don't keep up with Israeli affairs--not my people--but i haven't heard that normal secular\religious Israelis have devised any coherent plan to deal with this menace.
    , @Steve Sailer
    Ariel Sharon was a really Slavic-looking guy. I can't remember if one of his parents came from a Russian group that converted to Judaism in Russia.
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  99. Chiron says:
    @Drakejax
    A disgruntled MOSSAD officer wrote an expose´ ("By Way of Deception") that detailed how MOSSAD is small and poor, but punches above its weight by employing Jews to spy in their local countries and use their businesses to pay for it all. Sort of like how Pollard suddenly got employed on Wall Street or something. The actual professional case officers are very few in number, but who needs them when high-status Jews throughout the world will hook you up with either information or influence.

    They’re called ‘sayanim’, its well known among some circles that what really makes the MOSSAD so powerful is wealthy and influential jews in countries like US, UK, France and Russia gaving premium information for the israelis.

    Jacob Cohen, a French-jew who became anti-Zionist admitted in a book that the MOSSAD recruits sayanim inside the French Freemasonry (the Judeo-Masonic conspiracy is quite plausible when you look into it), its likely that high-level Masonic lodges are used by the MOSSAD to recruit powerful jews and gentiles (known às Shabbo Goyim).

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  100. @Black Death
    The Israeli technician who blew the whistle on Israel's nuke program was Mordechai Vanunu. From his Wiki page:

    Mordechai Vanunu (Hebrew: מרדכי ואנונו‎; born 14 October 1954), also known as John Crossman,[2][3] is an Israeli former nuclear technician and peace activist[4] who, citing his opposition to weapons of mass destruction, revealed details of Israel's nuclear weapons program to the British press in 1986.[5][6] He was subsequently lured to Italy by a Mossad agent, where he was drugged and abducted by Israeli intelligence agents.[5] He was transported to Israel and ultimately convicted in a trial that was held behind closed doors.[5]
    Vanunu spent 18 years in prison, including more than 11 in solitary confinement. Released from prison in 2004, he became subject to a broad array of restrictions on his speech and movement. Since then he has been arrested several times for violations of those restrictions, including giving various interviews to foreign journalists and attempting to leave Israel. He says he suffered "cruel and barbaric treatment" at the hands of Israeli authorities while imprisoned, and suggests that his treatment would have been different if he had not converted to Christianity from Judaism.[7]
    In 2007, Vanunu was sentenced to six months in prison for violating terms of his parole. The sentence was considered unusual even by the prosecution who expected a suspended sentence. In response, Amnesty International issued a press release on 2 July 2007, stating that "The organisation considers Mordechai Vanunu to be a prisoner of conscience and calls for his immediate and unconditional release."[8] In May 2010, Vanunu was arrested and sentenced to three months in jail on a charge that he met foreigners in violation of conditions of his 2004 release from jail.

    Vanunu’s certainly wasn’t Pollard level of treason.

    No one was at all confused that the Israelis had nuclear weapons. They didn’t sign the NPT for a reason. One expects US\Soviet intelligence had at least ballpark estimates of where they were at. What Vanunu provided was some public confirmation of scale.

    My two-bit analysis: I don’t think he harmed Israel at all. Leftists painted nuclear deterrence as “terror”, but i slept like a baby my whole youth. Wasn’t waking in a cold sweat thinking the Russkis were going to nuke me, because they knew with certainty what would happen to them if they did. Arab hostiles now know with certainty what fate awaits them–their cities, muslim holy sites … gone–if they really try to push Israel into the sea. (And they haven’t tried to do so since.) Yet, Israel can continue to parrot whatever their bogus line is “won’t be the first to introduce” to the US.

    But that said, plain fact is, Israel elects a government and its their job–not Vanunu’s–to decide to release what information about their nuclear program at what time for maximum benefit to their nation’s security. Ergo Vanunu’s a traitor. The Israelis would be well within normal respectable rules of fair play to take him out back and shoot him.

    Pollard’s nothing but a traitor, selling off actual operational intelligence methods, info that hindered intelligence collection and harmed US security for cash money. He should have been drawn and quartered, boiling oil dribbled down his throat and his innards pulled out and burned. That someone is giving him a job on Wall Street suggests said someone is not an American.

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    • Agree: Jim Don Bob
    • Replies: @D. K.
    "Back in 1986, Vanunu, a junior technician at the Dimona nuclear reactor, gave Israel’s nuclear secrets to The Sunday Times, claiming he did so out of opposition to weapons of mass destruction."

    How is that "treason?" It is just "whistle-blowing"-- much the same as Snowden's, more recently. Except, of course, that Vanunu's information merely confirmed what was already widely assumed, whereas much of what Snowden has revealed, thus far, has shocked both citizens, politicians and foreign leaders. "Treason" is defined as fighting for, or otherwise adhering to, an "enemy"-- which does not include the "free press" in an allied nation!
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  101. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
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  102. @sprfls
    Who said they do a good job? Obviously I don't know the exact numbers here, but for example a significant amount of non-Jewish Soviets emigrated to Israel in the 80s and 90s.

    The standards for immigration are not so high – as long as you have one Jewish grandparent, you qualify. But the standards for marriage and children and those children being registered as Jewish are very high. That falls under the rabbis and they are strict. Many, if not most, of the non-Jewish soviets who arrived then have long ago left Israel by the way. And why would they stay in Israel which is under constant pressure and low level terror, when you can get to Europe, or Canada or even the US? Canada especially is favored because education is valued in their immigration system. Israel has been far more successful than Europe in keeping out unwanted populations. Israel has also been incredibly successful in having their Jewish immigrants become “Israelified”, to make up a word.

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  103. Svigor says:

    MW, yes, lots of (not American?) kids travel abroad on working vacations. Lots of food & bev kids around here are Irish or eastern Europeans, for example.

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  104. Truth says:
    @SPMoore8
    I really don't see the relevance of this unless the shooters were members of the Woodrow Wilson Brigade or the Stanford White Power Legion (that would be SWPL, for short).

    On the other hand, it would be relatively simple to cherry pick stories about black assailants assaulting whites, amirite?

    it would be relatively simple to cherry pick stories about black assailants assaulting whites, amirite?

    From having been on this site for 9 years…I would concur.

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    • Agree: SPMoore8
    • Replies: @D. K.
    Since a particular demographic group (age x sex x race) comprising only about 2% of our resident population commits about half of all of the murders in the United States-- year in and year out, decade after decade-- no "cherry-picking" is necessary.
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  105. WhatEvvs [AKA "Internet Addict"] says:

    What with the downing of this Russian jet, and the Wikileaks revelation that Turkey is on the side of ISIS, what does the Sailer crystal ball say about the new Turkish PM?

    The party has for a long time been supported by the Cemaat Movement of exiled Islamic cleric Fethullah Gülen, whose influence in the judiciary has helped to weaken the opposition against the AKP.[17]

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Justice_and_Development_Party_(Turkey)

    Because I don’t understand any of it.

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  106. @This Is Our Home
    The treatment seems pretty fair for a traitor. Indeed it is more moderate than what the US has done to Pollard; I probably would have shot them both.

    @Roger Rediger

    No, the treatment that Vanunu received is harsher – read the link provided by Anonymous – 51. There is no doubt that Vanunu was a traitor, and the Israeli government had every right to punish him. But his offense, like Pollard’s, took place almost thirty years ago, and his freedom is still severely restricted – no different from Pollard. But here are the major differences – agree or disagree with him, Vanunu acted out of conviction – he never profited from his actions. Pollard was a hired spy, bought and paid for by the Israeli government. No doubt Pollard was sincerely motivated to help Israel, but he also got a ton of cash for what he did. Pollard also peddled his stolen information to other nations, including China, Pakistan and South Africa. Numerous high Israeli officials, including several prime ministers, have acknowledged that they were aware of Pollard’s activities. So much for our “special relationship.” It wasn’t until the US Congress threatened to cut off all aid to Israel that full Israeli cooperation was secured.

    But that was then and this is now. I think both Pollard and Vanunu should be allowed to go where they want to go – Pollard to Israel and Vanunu to the US.

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  107. D. K. says:
    @AnotherDad
    Vanunu's certainly wasn't Pollard level of treason.

    No one was at all confused that the Israelis had nuclear weapons. They didn't sign the NPT for a reason. One expects US\Soviet intelligence had at least ballpark estimates of where they were at. What Vanunu provided was some public confirmation of scale.

    My two-bit analysis: I don't think he harmed Israel at all. Leftists painted nuclear deterrence as "terror", but i slept like a baby my whole youth. Wasn't waking in a cold sweat thinking the Russkis were going to nuke me, because they knew with certainty what would happen to them if they did. Arab hostiles now know with certainty what fate awaits them--their cities, muslim holy sites ... gone--if they really try to push Israel into the sea. (And they haven't tried to do so since.) Yet, Israel can continue to parrot whatever their bogus line is "won't be the first to introduce" to the US.

    But that said, plain fact is, Israel elects a government and its their job--not Vanunu's--to decide to release what information about their nuclear program at what time for maximum benefit to their nation's security. Ergo Vanunu's a traitor. The Israelis would be well within normal respectable rules of fair play to take him out back and shoot him.

    Pollard's nothing but a traitor, selling off actual operational intelligence methods, info that hindered intelligence collection and harmed US security for cash money. He should have been drawn and quartered, boiling oil dribbled down his throat and his innards pulled out and burned. That someone is giving him a job on Wall Street suggests said someone is not an American.

    “Back in 1986, Vanunu, a junior technician at the Dimona nuclear reactor, gave Israel’s nuclear secrets to The Sunday Times, claiming he did so out of opposition to weapons of mass destruction.”

    How is that “treason?” It is just “whistle-blowing”– much the same as Snowden’s, more recently. Except, of course, that Vanunu’s information merely confirmed what was already widely assumed, whereas much of what Snowden has revealed, thus far, has shocked both citizens, politicians and foreign leaders. “Treason” is defined as fighting for, or otherwise adhering to, an “enemy”– which does not include the “free press” in an allied nation!

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    • Replies: @AnotherDad

    How is that “treason?” It is just “whistle-blowing”
     
    Fair point. At some level i agree with you that the treason bar is not really met, it's hard to see the harm to Israel. And i drew a clear distinct from what Pollard did which was selling out the US for Pollard's private and ethnocentric interests.

    I wouldn't quite dignify Vanunu with "whistle blowing" though--at least not from a "citizen of Israel" perspective. Whistle blowing generally connotes that you're exposing some useful info--generally about official malfeasance--to your citizenry that *needs* exposure and is being kept from the people. (They are dumping toxic waste; this drug doesn't work; this multi-billion dollar fighter doesn't perform very well; etc.) None of that is really true here. There's no malfeasance. Israel has a nuclear weapons program. The citizenry know that and support it. Their elected officials are duly informed. The level of revelation of extent and technical sophistication is really a political\foreign policy question to be sorted out by their elected governments.
    , @Stan D Mute

    much of what Snowden has revealed, thus far, has shocked both citizens, politicians and foreign leaders.
     
    Anyone "shocked" by Snowden's stories was a terribly naive fool. We knew long before Snowden that NSA was building a shiny new $2 billion data center in Utah and that they already operated more DC space than google. We've known for a long time that uttering a certain sequence of words on your telephone will yield a knock on your door within hours. And we knew of Harris' Stingray, Triggerfish, and Kingfish type devices since the advent of cell phones. Obviously the surveillance tech has kept up with the consumer tech. All Snowden did was confirm what we already "knew" (deduced).
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  108. 5371 says:
    @Buzz Mohawk

    In a clear bit of white supremacist propaganda today, Jeff Bezos landed a rocket on its retractable landing gear after a sub-orbital launch mission.
     
    You might want to inform certain supergenius bloggers of this event. They are under the impression that nobody in America can launch a rocket anymore.

    Oh, BTW, we are still receiving cool data from the Pluto flyby that was accomplished recently by an American spacecraft launced on an American rocket.

    I know. This just doesn't fit here.

    Now back to your regular programming..."Somebody's up to something! And we have no control over it!..."

    So a billionaire scumbag can fly 100 km up and then land, which the X-15 could do sixty years ago, but unlike the X-15 he can’t choose where to go or where to land and can’t put anyone aboard. BFD.

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  109. Karl says:
    @jtgw
    Israel seems to work on trust in many ways. E.g. how exactly do they verify your Jewishness when you apply for citizenship there? It would seem to be something easy to fake, and yet Israel is pretty good at keeping itself Jewish.

    >> how exactly do they verify your Jewishness when you apply for citizenship there?

    the same sort of way that Ireland verifies that one of your four grandparents was Irish, before giving you your Irish passport.

    I notice that Ireland just put some money into copying the “Birthright” program.

    Didn’t Michelle Bachmann just get her Swiss dual-loyalty credentials?

    Philippines process for granting dual-citizenship to its large diaspora,runs pretty much the same way.

    In MANY of the world’s second-tier countries, if you REALLY want to gain citizenship, repeated applications of money and persistence, will get you there. Lawyers exist.

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  110. @Mike Sylwester
    It seems that some Arabs in New York City did have prior knowledge of the attack and were looking forward to it.

    Prior Knowledge of Sept. 11 Not Just Urban Legend
    Posted Sept. 10, 2002
    By Jeffrey Scott Shapiro

    "What are you looking at?" asked the schoolteacher as she approached one of her freshman students. The boy, a young Palestinian, seemed captivated as he stared out the window across Brooklyn toward the lower downtown area of Manhattan.

    "Do you see those two buildings?" he asked while pointing toward the World Trade Center. "They won't be standing there next week." It was noon, Sept. 6, 2001.

    Antoinette DiLorenzo didn't take her student's comment all too seriously. Of course the twin towers would be there next week, she assured him. The student shook his head and reiterated his prediction until his 15-year old brother, a sophomore, elbowed him and told him to be quiet. "He's just kidding," the older boy said politely.

    Five days later at 8:45 a.m., DiLorenzo heard a loud explosion from the north. Thunderstruck, she turned to the window and eventually watched both towers collapse into shattered glass and crumbled steel.

    Many people believed this story was nothing more than an urban legend when they first heard it. Everyone has heard similar stories in the wake of such a disaster. Despite the almost unbelievable circumstances of the story, I was able to confirm it last October while working as a crime reporter for the Journal News, a New York-based Gannett newspaper. Catie Marshall, a spokeswoman for the New York City Board of Education, confirmed that school officials reported the incident to police and that the matter had since been taken over by the FBI Joint Terrorist Task Force (FBI-JTTF).

    New Utrecht High School was closed Sept. 12, 2001, but as soon as it reopened the following morning, a shaken DiLorenzo quietly approached a New York City Police Department (NYPD) school-safety officer in the school's first-floor lobby. Soon, a dozen investigators stormed the school, interrogating students and searching lockers.

    After federal agents questioned DiLorenzo, police detectives questioned her fourth-period class to see if anyone else had heard the boy's comments. Once the detectives were finished, the boy and his brother forcibly were taken to the 62nd Precinct headquarters, where two investigators with the FBI-JTTF questioned them for several hours. Their father, who was in Israel at the time of the attacks, was scheduled to fly home Sept. 11 on a commercial airliner, but he was delayed when all flights to the United States were grounded.
     

    More at the following webpage:

    http://www.prisonplanet.com/prior_knowledge_of_sept_11_not_just_urban_legend.htm

    PrisonPlanet is not a decent source, because while it occassionally may have some worthy news , it is too often neck deep in unsutantiated conspiracy news.

    The problem in believeing the story you quote is that there is no way the planners of 9-11 would have told or discussed their plans in a manner that some highschool kids could overhear and then babble about it.

    Unless I can see some mainstream news sites report on the same claim , I’m chalking it up to propaghanda. The article reporting the kids were Palestinian also arouses my suspicion. None of the 9-11 Hijackers were Palestinian, so it wouldn’t be like their unlces or older brothers or dads were discussing it and these kids overheard it.

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    • Replies: @Bugg
    I recall seeing the New Utrecht High School Palestinian kid being part of a documentary on PBS or History or some other cable channel. Made a few attempts to search for it, but admittedly nothing comes up now. You can note that several of the 9/11 hijackers did live in apartments in Brooklyn and New Jersey in the years prior to 9/11, attended mosques in NYC (specifically one on 3rd Avenue and one on Bedford Avenue in Brooklyn) and probably had some contacts with people they knew from their time there, and perhaps spoke to their old friends in the run-up to that day.Grant you that sounds like speculation, if logical.
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  111. @nglaer
    You write there were "numerous reports" of Midwesterners celebrating on 9/11. I know about the Israelis in the van-- and Carl Cameron's Fox News reports on them, etc. But others? Sad to say, it's important. Trump can get away with saying a lot of politically incorrect stuff, but he can't just make stuff up, it's really not presidential.

    he can’t just make stuff up, it’s really not presidential

    One would hope.

    Don’t think the current occupant feels that way.

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  112. NOTA says:
    @Robert Hume
    The picture I remember was of about five men seen from behind looking across the river at the twin towers and rejoicing. They were said to be Israelis. They would obviously be happy because now the US would go to war against Arabs. I've read that Israelis had some inkling that an attack was imminent, and that US intelligence did also, "Their hair was on fire", but that the administration ignored US intelligence. For example, of course, Bush thought it would be racist to profile Arabs. I have not read if US intelligence did or did not receive leads from the Israelis.

    Even if the Israelis knew ahead of time, why would they send people in the field who knew ahead of time, and put them in a position to be arrested and questioned by the FBI?

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    • Replies: @cwhatfuture
    Why would Israelis use illegals working as movers to record such an event and celebrate it publicly? Because according to the sleuths on this board, not only are the Israeli intelligence agencies dumb, they verge on the retarded.
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  113. tanabear says:
    @Seth
    The idea that these guys were up to anything in particular is absurd.

    They were filming the WTC as it burned...like everyone else with a camera in a two mile radius. On tv later one of them said in bad English that he was "documenting" the event and the loonies took that to mean that he had been sent there to do it.

    Why would the Mossad need to have the most spectacular event in American history specially "documented?"

    NYC is filled with illegal immigrants who say they are tourists and are doing some work in the meantime. Not unusual.

    Movers are often paid in cash. $4700 among 4 people may sound like a lot of money to some fevered conspiracy theorist but if that was all their money it's really not that much.

    Seth: “The idea that these guys were up to anything in particular is absurd.”

    If it was absurd then they wouldn’t have been contained for 71 days and questioned about their activities on 09/11/2001 over and over again. They obviously had to arouse some sort of suspicion and stand out from other witnesses of the towers burning otherwise the police would not have been called. Urban Moving Systems/Company was apparently a front company for the Mossad. Three of the suspects were Mossad agents. This is very suspicious.

    But why were they so giddy and happy?

    From the FBI report: “…one of the males appeared to be taking still photographs and video of the other males with the WTC in the background. All of the males appeared to be jovial in that they smiled, hugged one another, and gave “high fives“.

    Film obtained from the 35mm camera of one of the detainees was later developed and processed by the Newark Division. The photos clearly corroborate [Blank's] statements in that the Israelis are visibly happy on nearly all of the photgraphs.”

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    • Replies: @Seth
    Do you imagine that Mossad spies are so clumsily trained that they high-five each other and dance and smile in public when their mission comes off?

    You ask why they were happy. Who knows? Maybe they were just jerks.
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  114. NOTA says:
    @Kevin O'Keeffe
    "I can’t remember if I’ve posted this here or not but I’ve made a prediction that Hillary will choose a hispanic man for VP. Another woman steals her thunder, a white man isn’t “progress”, an asian man too irrelevant, a well-spoken black man in very short supply. A Hispanic male VP charges up her side of the immigration vote. I’m sure there are a couple possible choices in the Dem. party somewhere."

    Hillary has all but stated her intent to nominate HUD Secretary Julian* Castro as her Veep. Steve's talked about it, actually.

    *Pronounced "whoolian," for all you micro-aggressing sh*tlords who had the temerity to suppose he pronounced it like the old Roman Emperor

    So, how’d the emperor pronounce it? I assume not all that close to the English pronunciation, but I really don’t know.

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    • Replies: @Richard S
    Something like "Guy-uz Yule-lee-uz Kae-sar"; but then technically he was never emperor :)
    , @Glossy
    I would guess that the ancient pronunciation was Yoolian.
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  115. Svigor says:

    Even if the Israelis knew ahead of time, why would they send people in the field who knew ahead of time, and put them in a position to be arrested and questioned by the FBI?

    The way I always heard it (i.e., the speculation), they were tracking Muslim terrorists in the US and knew there would or might be an attack, which would make your question kind of nonsensical; not as if they’d just disappear into thin air the moment they were forewarned.

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    • Replies: @Mr. Anon
    Even if they didn't know an attack would or might happen, they still would have filmed it. Wouldn't anyone? If they were engaged in surveilance they would have had video-cameras, and most people who had video-cameras on that that day, who weren't in immediate danger, filmed what they could of the attacks.
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  116. @Dave Pinsen
    I would think Israel's laxity regarding that post-Soviet wave was intentional. Israel's leaders likely saw it as a demographic bulwark against Arabs as well as against Mizrahi Jews.

    I would think Israel’s laxity regarding that post-Soviet wave was intentional. Israel’s leaders likely saw it as a demographic bulwark against Arabs as well as against Mizrahi Jews.

    Do these truly non-Jewish Russians actually stick in Israel? I’d think almost all of them who don’t identify as Jewish would have tried to get on the US. (There sure seem to be a heck of a lot of Russians–and other ex-Soviets–swarming around these days.) Israel seems like a nice place, but it’s a nice place for a particular people. If you don’t really identify as Jewish i don’t see why you’d stick there.

    ~~~

    Not up on things Israeli, but my very rough take:
    – they’ve gotten the Arab fertility down now to near replacement–and they can always decide (at high political cost) to toss Arabs out.
    – their long term demographic future is most endangered by the Haredi who have incredibly high (African level) fertility but are absolute parasites, sucking up welfare and (legally) dodging military service; they used to be trivial but are now broaching 10% of the population and will rapidly expand–given their fertility–beyond that

    I hate parasites–high, low and in-between. They are a cancer. They suck the life from nations and need to be rooted out, suppressed or tossed out. I don’t keep up with Israeli affairs–not my people–but i haven’t heard that normal secular\religious Israelis have devised any coherent plan to deal with this menace.

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    • Replies: @Karl
    >> Israel seems like a nice place, but it’s a nice place for a particular people. If you don’t really identify as Jewish i don’t see why you’d stick there.


    nonsense. Even muslims are embraced if they are loyal to the State: the Circassians. Doing very nicely, HEAVILY represented in upper ranks of the carabinieri (Border Police) and even, nowadays, seen in the Air Force technical academies. Not surprising, as their IQs are on the right-hand side of the curve..... they are actual caucasians.

    Russians are often, conservative traditional whites. Not very many want to be ruled by a de Blasio. Places like England are even worse. Also, traditional Slavic culture is well appreciated in Israel. Google on "dancekessem"


    I am not aware of ANY categorical yeridah of Russians ==qua== Russians from Israel. They are STRONGLY entrenched in Israel. Almost government websites have a click-for-Russian-language icon.
    , @bomag
    In the ongoing massive social experiment on planet Earth the plan to deal with population is to turn everyone into a modern Progressive and thus sterilize them. Not everyone is going to go along, so we will see how it works out.
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  117. nglaer says:
    @Whiskey
    Instapundit here references the Washington Post Sept 18, 2001 referring to tailgate viewing parties in Jersey watching and celebrating the Twin Towers collapse. Referencing Muslims.

    Muslims around the nation celebrated and danced in the streets, which was reported, just barely, at the time.

    Trump was/is correct.
    -----------------------------
    As for intelligence, the US has been very, very bad as has British intelligence in human sources, but very, very, VERY good in technical intelligence. We and the British were reading in near real time in WWII German and Japanese codes down to battlefield movements. We had an enourmous lead in satellite spying which combined with the U2 and SR72 gave us good ideas of the general abilities and intentions of the Soviets (a key reason we did not launch a nuclear attack in the dark). We tapped undersea cables the Soviets thought were impossible to tap.

    Recently the US/Israeli intelligence effort to hamper Iran's nuclear program was entirely technical. Stuxnet was very successful.

    Human sources are generally over-rated. They are too subject to bias and tale-telling (Ahmed Chalabi), turning and doubling, and often merely duplicate the tremendous amount of open source information that can be collated and analyzed.

    I would be EXTREMELY dubious of "Israeli" citizens -- since a non trivial portion are Arab Muslims. There is also a thriving Israeli organized crime movement.

    The CEO of say, Teva, who was refused an Avis Rental Car by a couple of Black female service reps because he was Israeli, is highly unlikely to be either a spy or a criminal. The real threat as always comes from insiders, Robert Hanssen, Aldric Ames, Jonathon Pollard, the Walker family. And its usually related to sex or money or both.

    Instapundit here references the Washington Post Sept 18, 2001 referring to tailgate viewing parties in Jersey watching and celebrating the Twin Towers collapse. Referencing Muslims.

    Muslims around the nation celebrated and danced in the streets, which was reported, just barely, at the time.

    Trump was/is correct.

    Thank you Whiskey. Am not usually on your ideological wavelength. This, (or instapundit’s) is an important factoid. My optimism is restored.

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    • Replies: @gcochran
    It never happened, not in the US. Whiskey is never correct.
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  118. Richard S says:
    @NOTA
    So, how'd the emperor pronounce it? I assume not all that close to the English pronunciation, but I really don't know.

    Something like “Guy-uz Yule-lee-uz Kae-sar”; but then technically he was never emperor :)

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    • Replies: @kaganovitch
    It is Julian Castro we are referring to, as in the Emperor Julian the Apostate not Julius
    , @ben tillman

    Something like “Guy-uz Yule-lee-uz Kae-sar”
     
    Kie-sar. First syllable is just like the first syllable of the German "Kaiser".
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  119. Anonym says:

    If US intel is hamstrung by fear of traitors, it is not hard to understand why. As a multiracial state, we have PC telling us to trust everyone but practical experience to tell that we can’t. For many, dual loyalties would be an improvement.

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  120. Karl says:
    @sprfls
    Who said they do a good job? Obviously I don't know the exact numbers here, but for example a significant amount of non-Jewish Soviets emigrated to Israel in the 80s and 90s.

    >> Who said they do a good job?

    Ever since the 1750′s (first publication of a Hebrew-language mathematics school-text), nationalistic Zionism has been almost completely led by non-religious Jews.

    It is easily possible to paint the picture that “Judaism” as a stand-alone, organized “religion”, didn’t really exist until after the Roman destruction of the Second Temple. Hebrew kings – up to & including Herod – never (to my memory of the bible) tried to dual-hat themselves as a High Priest. Actually, quite a few of them used tax monies to support pagan shrines. The municipality of Jerusalem still gives away free Christmas trees every year. In fact, it’s going to happen in a coupla weeks.

    Even deep within the bowels of the Temple bureaucracy itself, the King always had total control of crowd-control and even liturgical arrangements. 1 Chronicles 25. Kinda like mosques nowadays in the Gulf states?

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    • Replies: @kaganovitch
    "Hebrew kings – up to & including Herod – never (to my memory of the bible) tried to dual-hat themselves as a High Priest. "

    Your memory is off fwiw. Pretty much the entire hasmonean dynasty was dual hat . Herod didn't try it because he was unfit for priestly caste due to ancestry.
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  121. tbraton says:
    @Svigor
    Russian entry into Turkish airspace lasted 'seconds': U.S. official

    WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The United States believes Russia's incursion into Turkish airspace on Tuesday likely lasted only a matter of seconds before Turkey shot down a Russian warplane, a U.S. official said, saying the assessment was based on preliminary indications.

    The official, who spoke on condition of anonymity, said the United States was still investigating the incident.
     
    Damage control? Seems like US unofficially admitting within hours that the Turks were itching to shoot down a Russian plane.

    Any peep of protest from the U.S. or EU about the steady stream of rubber rafts carrying “Syrian refugees” from Turkey to Lesbos and thereby violating the territorial waters of Greece?

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  122. D. K. says:
    @Truth
    Uh Oh!...Part LXII!

    Be careful what you axe for.

    http://qz.com/558326/white-men-shot-several-people-at-a-black-lives-matter-rally-in-minneapolis/?utm_source=YPL
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    • Replies: @SPMoore8
    Based on my personal knowledge of the Occupy movement, I would bet (a) that this had nothing to do with race, (b) it was a drug deal gone bad.
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  123. @Drakejax
    A disgruntled MOSSAD officer wrote an expose´ ("By Way of Deception") that detailed how MOSSAD is small and poor, but punches above its weight by employing Jews to spy in their local countries and use their businesses to pay for it all. Sort of like how Pollard suddenly got employed on Wall Street or something. The actual professional case officers are very few in number, but who needs them when high-status Jews throughout the world will hook you up with either information or influence.

    If he had been anything but a low level clerk, which is what he was, he would already be dead or have been “brought back” to Israel for trial.

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  124. Boomstick says:
    @Kevin O'Keeffe
    In the year 2000, my home in San Jose was visited by two very attractive young ladies who characterized themselves as "Israeli art students," and claimed to be selling paintings door-to-door. At the time, I was living with my father (due to the fact I'd recently spent a year in the county jail, as a result of my 20something involvement in some embarrassingly imbecile shenanigans, pertaining to a right-wing extremist organization that was very active during the 1990s), and my father was the chief-of-maintenance for a large industrial facility in Silicon Valley (one that most definitely had potential national security-related implications; they weren't designing social media apps, LOL). Anyhoo, over the course of the next two weeks, both my father and I kept running into these same "Israeli art students" all over town, in San Jose, in Sunnyvale, in Palo Alto...seemingly wherever we went. I was told I was "paranoid," for believing they were following us, but realistically, I don't see any other possibility. They tried to get into the facility where my father worked, at one point, but were denied access.

    When I had a small office in an office park I used to get regular cold calls from “art salesmen.” Their schtick was to say that they had some art that had been ordered by someone else in the building but that they had since moved out. Rather than take the art back they said they’d cut a deal and give it to me for a rock bottom price.

    They were just selling cheap knockoff Ansel Adams reproductions, obviously without paying any licensing fees. The story was about cancelled orders was just part of the sales pitch. There are plenty of similar scams, including door-to-door meat salesmen. One of the most famous is the “white box speaker” sales guys. They’ll cadge you in parking lots and tell you they were making a delivery on expensive stereo speakers, but the deal fell through. Rather than take them back they’ll sell you these top-flight speakers for a low, low price. The speakers are actually crap and the price is inflated, but the story helps make the sale.

    If the “Israeli art students” were actually spies I’d expect them to conceal their foreign extraction. From an information gathering standpoint it’s a negative to volunteer that information, but probably a positive for making sales of overpriced art.

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    • Replies: @greysquirrell
    I had that happen to me once; a Semi truck pulled up into our subdividion and wanted to sell us some 'high' quality furniture that they were supposed to deliver but the buyer reneged and they couldn't drive all the way back to some other State with it.

    How can this type of sales be effective? Most people are really averse to door to door salesman and will decline. Seems like a waste of time and money to cold call on people.
    , @Kevin O'Keeffe
    "When I had a small office in an office park I used to get regular cold calls from “art salesmen.” Their schtick was to say that they had some art that had been ordered by someone else in the building but that they had since moved out. Rather than take the art back they said they’d cut a deal and give it to me for a rock bottom price.

    They were just selling cheap knockoff Ansel Adams reproductions, obviously without paying any licensing fees. The story was about cancelled orders was just part of the sales pitch. There are plenty of similar scams, including door-to-door meat salesmen. One of the most famous is the “white box speaker” sales guys. They’ll cadge you in parking lots and tell you they were making a delivery on expensive stereo speakers, but the deal fell through. Rather than take them back they’ll sell you these top-flight speakers for a low, low price. The speakers are actually crap and the price is inflated, but the story helps make the sale.

    If the “Israeli art students” were actually spies I’d expect them to conceal their foreign extraction. From an information gathering standpoint it’s a negative to volunteer that information, but probably a positive for making sales of overpriced art."

    OK, but that doesn't really explain why they followed my dad and I all over Santa Clara County for a week or two, does it? How many times could the two of us run into them all over various "Silicon Valley" locales, before it stopped being "a coincidence?"
    , @G Pinfold
    The scam works on greed, so it's very effective. The simplest is to imply that the goods are 'dodgy'. So for example: 'A bottle of Chanel Number 5 for a fiver, but better make it quick. I can't hang around, if you know what I mean?' Often an insider makes the first purchase, setting off the marks. Of course, the sting is that the goods are actually dodgy; not stolen, but 2 dollar knock-offs. As with all these schemes, its hard to catch someone twice, so they rely on fresh meat. But as PT Barnum said...

    BTW, as as non-Israeli student, I sold 'original oil paintings' door to door for a guy named Friedman. I was never equipped with a Minox camera or anything, but then I never made Salesman-of-the-Week either, so who knows?
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  125. Karl says:
    @MW
    As absurd as it sounds to an American, this is exactly what my Israeli cousin did, though "vacation" might be a misleading word. It is very common for young Israelis to take a few years after their army service and putter around the world, working as necessary. And there are lots of Israeli moving companies in the US, for whatever reason. So when my cousin needed work after a month or two doing nothing, he reached out to a childhood friend of his who, sure enough, ran a moving company in the US.

    >>> It is very common for young Israelis to take a few years after their army service and putter around the world, working as necessary

    “Just out of the service
    And he’s looking for his fun”

    http://www.lyricsmode.com/lyrics/j/judy_collins/someday_soon.html

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  126. WhatEvvs [AKA "Internet Addict"] says:

    Sorry, OT. Read the comments. A corner has been turned.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/25/us/minneapolis-shooting-protest-police-jamar-clark.html?_r=0

    It’s not every day that you get immediate, swift, fact-check their asses from the NY Times.

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    • Replies: @Boomstick
    NYT:

    On Monday night, community members asked the men what they were doing and asked them to remove their masks, she said, but they refused and were then escorted away.
     
    It's not that hard to figure out what went on here. Citizens were filming something the #BLM didn't want filmed, and #BLM goons attempted to run them off with physical violence. ("refused and were then escorted away.") Things got dodgy and the people being "escorted" pulled their pieces, perhaps justifiably and perhaps not.
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  127. Travis says:

    listening to the radio station Jersey 101.5 today, Dennis and Judy , used their program to ask Jersey residents if they recalled seeing anyone celebrating on 9/11.

    dozens of callers remembered seeing Muslims in Paterson and Jersey City rejoicing or celebrating that day…the hosts were somewhat surprised, as they acknowledged most of the callers appeared credible and the callers themselves did sound convincing. Dennis made it known he does not support Trump, but he seemed to believe many of the callers.

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    • Replies: @Dave Pinsen
    Mark Simone on WWOR confirmed it today as well, and pointed out that smart phones with video capability didn't exist then, hence the paucity of video.
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  128. @D. K.
    "Back in 1986, Vanunu, a junior technician at the Dimona nuclear reactor, gave Israel’s nuclear secrets to The Sunday Times, claiming he did so out of opposition to weapons of mass destruction."

    How is that "treason?" It is just "whistle-blowing"-- much the same as Snowden's, more recently. Except, of course, that Vanunu's information merely confirmed what was already widely assumed, whereas much of what Snowden has revealed, thus far, has shocked both citizens, politicians and foreign leaders. "Treason" is defined as fighting for, or otherwise adhering to, an "enemy"-- which does not include the "free press" in an allied nation!

    How is that “treason?” It is just “whistle-blowing”

    Fair point. At some level i agree with you that the treason bar is not really met, it’s hard to see the harm to Israel. And i drew a clear distinct from what Pollard did which was selling out the US for Pollard’s private and ethnocentric interests.

    I wouldn’t quite dignify Vanunu with “whistle blowing” though–at least not from a “citizen of Israel” perspective. Whistle blowing generally connotes that you’re exposing some useful info–generally about official malfeasance–to your citizenry that *needs* exposure and is being kept from the people. (They are dumping toxic waste; this drug doesn’t work; this multi-billion dollar fighter doesn’t perform very well; etc.) None of that is really true here. There’s no malfeasance. Israel has a nuclear weapons program. The citizenry know that and support it. Their elected officials are duly informed. The level of revelation of extent and technical sophistication is really a political\foreign policy question to be sorted out by their elected governments.

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    • Replies: @D. K.
    There was plenty of Israeli malfeasance-- like their stealing American supplies of uranium from Pennsylvania!
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  129. Karl says:
    @AnotherDad

    I would think Israel’s laxity regarding that post-Soviet wave was intentional. Israel’s leaders likely saw it as a demographic bulwark against Arabs as well as against Mizrahi Jews.
     
    Do these truly non-Jewish Russians actually stick in Israel? I'd think almost all of them who don't identify as Jewish would have tried to get on the US. (There sure seem to be a heck of a lot of Russians--and other ex-Soviets--swarming around these days.) Israel seems like a nice place, but it's a nice place for a particular people. If you don't really identify as Jewish i don't see why you'd stick there.

    ~~~

    Not up on things Israeli, but my very rough take:
    -- they've gotten the Arab fertility down now to near replacement--and they can always decide (at high political cost) to toss Arabs out.
    -- their long term demographic future is most endangered by the Haredi who have incredibly high (African level) fertility but are absolute parasites, sucking up welfare and (legally) dodging military service; they used to be trivial but are now broaching 10% of the population and will rapidly expand--given their fertility--beyond that

    I hate parasites--high, low and in-between. They are a cancer. They suck the life from nations and need to be rooted out, suppressed or tossed out. I don't keep up with Israeli affairs--not my people--but i haven't heard that normal secular\religious Israelis have devised any coherent plan to deal with this menace.

    >> Israel seems like a nice place, but it’s a nice place for a particular people. If you don’t really identify as Jewish i don’t see why you’d stick there.

    nonsense. Even muslims are embraced if they are loyal to the State: the Circassians. Doing very nicely, HEAVILY represented in upper ranks of the carabinieri (Border Police) and even, nowadays, seen in the Air Force technical academies. Not surprising, as their IQs are on the right-hand side of the curve….. they are actual caucasians.

    Russians are often, conservative traditional whites. Not very many want to be ruled by a de Blasio. Places like England are even worse. Also, traditional Slavic culture is well appreciated in Israel. Google on “dancekessem”

    I am not aware of ANY categorical yeridah of Russians ==qua== Russians from Israel. They are STRONGLY entrenched in Israel. Almost government websites have a click-for-Russian-language icon.

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  130. Ron Unz says:

    Well, I can’t remember the exact details, but about a month after 9/11, an Israeli military officer and a local Jewish associate were caught red-handed sneaking explosives and guns into the Mexican Parliament building, a story which immediately produced banner headlines in some of the leading Mexican newspapers but strangely enough was scarcely reported in the U.S. Under strong diplomatic pressure, both suspects were eventually deported back to Israel, just like all the ones caught in the NYC area around 9/11.

    A few years earlier, that Haim Saban Israeli fellow had bought the Univision television network, and perhaps if things had turned out a bit differently, horrific scenes of the destruction of the Mexican parliament by apparent “Arab terrorists” would have been broadcast 24/7 into every Hispanic home in America for the next twelve months.

    In attempting to extract reality from our imperfect media, it’s always important to consider the distortioning effects of probable skew and adjust accordingly…

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    • Replies: @Boomstick
    There were two men found with one Glock 9mm inside the Mexican parliament building. The only mentions of explosives I can find are on crazed conspiracy sites.

    http://archivo.eluniversal.com.mx/nacion/68324.html

    The man had a license to carry a concealed weapon and was a security guard. It's easy to forget you're wearing a pistol and accidentally go into restricted areas.
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  131. D. K. says:
    @AnotherDad

    How is that “treason?” It is just “whistle-blowing”
     
    Fair point. At some level i agree with you that the treason bar is not really met, it's hard to see the harm to Israel. And i drew a clear distinct from what Pollard did which was selling out the US for Pollard's private and ethnocentric interests.

    I wouldn't quite dignify Vanunu with "whistle blowing" though--at least not from a "citizen of Israel" perspective. Whistle blowing generally connotes that you're exposing some useful info--generally about official malfeasance--to your citizenry that *needs* exposure and is being kept from the people. (They are dumping toxic waste; this drug doesn't work; this multi-billion dollar fighter doesn't perform very well; etc.) None of that is really true here. There's no malfeasance. Israel has a nuclear weapons program. The citizenry know that and support it. Their elected officials are duly informed. The level of revelation of extent and technical sophistication is really a political\foreign policy question to be sorted out by their elected governments.

    There was plenty of Israeli malfeasance– like their stealing American supplies of uranium from Pennsylvania!

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    • Replies: @AnotherDad

    There was plenty of Israeli malfeasance– like their stealing American supplies of uranium from Pennsylvania!
     
    I'm speaking about Vanunu from the perspective of Israel--of which he was a citizen and pledged a secrecy oath when he took his job.

    From the perspective of America, those responsible for the Apollo plant diversion--if there was a diversion; it's still quite possible it was simply the most sloppily run, leakiest, uranium enrichment plant in the US--should have been brought to justice and executed.
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  132. D. K. says:
    @Truth
    Uh Oh!...Part LXII!

    Be careful what you axe for.

    http://qz.com/558326/white-men-shot-several-people-at-a-black-lives-matter-rally-in-minneapolis/?utm_source=YPL

    Here, in full, is a comment, from another Web site, about an actual murder (and sexual-assault) victim:

    “Amanda Blackburn was in the wrong place at the wrong time; she was in the confines of her own home 150 years after emancipation and 50 years after LBJ’s War on Poverty.”

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    • Replies: @Romanian
    And she was pregnant. Somebody suggested we should not just measure crime by bodycount, but by number of perpetrators too. It took three people to rape and kill that poor woman.
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  133. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @Robert Hume
    The picture I remember was of about five men seen from behind looking across the river at the twin towers and rejoicing. They were said to be Israelis. They would obviously be happy because now the US would go to war against Arabs. I've read that Israelis had some inkling that an attack was imminent, and that US intelligence did also, "Their hair was on fire", but that the administration ignored US intelligence. For example, of course, Bush thought it would be racist to profile Arabs. I have not read if US intelligence did or did not receive leads from the Israelis.

    They were filming the attack. The were apprehended for 40+ days and failed lie detector tests.

    One of them inadvertently admitted on live Israeli TV they were there to ‘document the event’

    There are a lot of things that were reported on at the time of the attack that were simply never followed up on. Here is Fox news footage from 2001, alleging that Israel knew what was going to happen.

    Any way you slice it, Israel is rotten in it’s dealings with the US. There is no way they should be considered an ‘ally’ and the fact that they receive aid from the American taxpayer is an outrage.

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    • Replies: @tanabear
    America is an ally of Israel, but Israel is not an ally of the Unites States. That is how the relationship works.

    Yes, Carl Cameron and Fox News did some good initial reporting on this issue, but then they went quiet. I wonder what could have happened? Fox News also removed their report from their website on the Israel art student spy ring after only two days. They never said the information was wrong or inaccurate. Fox News: Fair, balanced, and unafraid....except of the Israeli Lobby.
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  134. @Steve Sailer
    There are a whole bunch of websites run by Jews that evaluate how Jewish various celebrities are. My impression is that gentiles have no clue how much mental energy Jews devote to such questions.

    Do you observe that all kinds of Jews attend to this? Or just the religious Jews?

    I think it’s mostly the religious ones.

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  135. @Stan D Mute
    In a clear bit of white supremacist propaganda today, Jeff Bezos landed a rocket on its retractable landing gear after a sub-orbital launch mission. In the video, there was not even one Diversity. Obviously this is impossible - success without Diversities just cannot happen - and thus proves Bezos a racist.

    http://www.engadget.com/2015/11/24/blue-origin-reusable-rocket-landing/

    Hilarious

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  136. @al gore rhythms

    The FBI package was at least 50 pages and required exhaustive detail including all schools attended and dates of attendance along with grades (do you have your third grade report cards?). They demanded all family connections to second cousin along with detail like date of birth and photos. It was, putting it mildly, incredibly over the top
     
    Shouldn't this be subject to a 'disparate impact' challenge? If you moved to America as a young child from the chaotic Third World then it might be hard to prove family connections or school grades.

    Shouldn’t this be subject to a ‘disparate impact’ challenge? If you moved to America as a young child from the chaotic Third World then it might be hard to prove family connections or school grades.

    Great observation! In fact, this was back in the early 1990′s so predates the “disparate impact” era. I’d expect that today a letter from your Imam or village witch doctor in crayon or goat blood would suffice for an “above top secret” clearance and GS15 job.

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  137. Romanian says:
    @Stan D Mute
    In a clear bit of white supremacist propaganda today, Jeff Bezos landed a rocket on its retractable landing gear after a sub-orbital launch mission. In the video, there was not even one Diversity. Obviously this is impossible - success without Diversities just cannot happen - and thus proves Bezos a racist.

    http://www.engadget.com/2015/11/24/blue-origin-reusable-rocket-landing/

    I’m a bit disappointed that SpaceX did not beat them to it. Blue Origin’s stuff has been vaporware for some time and has engaged in some lame practices, like hiring SpaceX’s people on propulsion and such after they had developed innovative tech (though, apparently, according to the Musk biography, his companies have a high turnover because he’s hard to work with). The thing is that it was a bit of a lame attempt: the rocket reached space, not orbit, which requires much more energy and would have made the return much more difficult; the rocket is a lot smaller, because it’s not meant to be usable, but a tech platform, while SpaceX attempts to land rockets after they have launched a payload. The near misses of SpaceX were thrilling in themselves, like the rocket falling just as it should have landed, but I appreciate what they were trying to do a bit more. Having just read the Musk biography that Tyler Cowen of MR recommended, I am convinced that I would not want to ever know him, except to discuss Mars a bit. Definitely not work for him. But he’s the kind of person that gets things done, and SpaceX has accomplished more with less than Blue Origin. They stole the reusable rocket thunder in a cheap way, compared to how SpaceX was doing it. Yes, I’m a cheerleader. Still, at least things are finally moving. Maybe my children will have their flying cars and Mars bases.

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    • Replies: @Stan D Mute

    The near misses of SpaceX were thrilling in themselves, like the rocket falling just as it should have landed, but I appreciate what they were trying to do a bit more.
     
    But did Musk at least properly credit his (near) success to ¡Diversity! or like Bezos pretend it was all done by white folks whom we know "didn't build this"?

    Maybe my children will have their flying cars and Mars bases.
     
    Yeah, you should probably set your hopes a bit lower. I'll be happy if my kids aren't forced to pay jizya and the country still has indoor plumbing.
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  138. FineSwine says:

    9/11 was the second time that Muslims tried to bring down those towers. It was only a matter of time before they had another go.

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    • Agree: Travis
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  139. Romanian says:
    @D. K.
    Here, in full, is a comment, from another Web site, about an actual murder (and sexual-assault) victim:

    "Amanda Blackburn was in the wrong place at the wrong time; she was in the confines of her own home 150 years after emancipation and 50 years after LBJ's War on Poverty."

    And she was pregnant. Somebody suggested we should not just measure crime by bodycount, but by number of perpetrators too. It took three people to rape and kill that poor woman.

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  140. Lugash says:
    @jtgw
    Israel seems to work on trust in many ways. E.g. how exactly do they verify your Jewishness when you apply for citizenship there? It would seem to be something easy to fake, and yet Israel is pretty good at keeping itself Jewish.

    And in America, we allow American born foreign spies and their foreign born spy husbands to emigrate to the United States, after kidnapping people on foreign soil:

    http://www.sptimes.com/2004/03/21/Worldandnation/The_spy___and_the_man.shtml

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  141. Glossy says: • Website
    @NOTA
    So, how'd the emperor pronounce it? I assume not all that close to the English pronunciation, but I really don't know.

    I would guess that the ancient pronunciation was Yoolian.

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    • Replies: @Romanian
    It was. I mean it. I did two years of Latin in school.
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  142. gcochran says:
    @nglaer
    Instapundit here references the Washington Post Sept 18, 2001 referring to tailgate viewing parties in Jersey watching and celebrating the Twin Towers collapse. Referencing Muslims.

    Muslims around the nation celebrated and danced in the streets, which was reported, just barely, at the time.

    Trump was/is correct.


    Thank you Whiskey. Am not usually on your ideological wavelength. This, (or instapundit's) is an important factoid. My optimism is restored.

    It never happened, not in the US. Whiskey is never correct.

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    • Replies: @James Kabala
    I think people have forgotten how raw emotions (understandably) were on 9/11. If there had really been a huge crowd of thousands cheering the attacks in public, the result would have been a battle in the streets between them and non-Muslims. Especially in the New York metropolitan area! A small group or a single individual might well have ended up outright lynched. Who knows what might have gone on behind closed doors, but huge demonstrations in public could not have happened without consequences.
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  143. Boomstick says:
    @Ron Unz
    Well, I can't remember the exact details, but about a month after 9/11, an Israeli military officer and a local Jewish associate were caught red-handed sneaking explosives and guns into the Mexican Parliament building, a story which immediately produced banner headlines in some of the leading Mexican newspapers but strangely enough was scarcely reported in the U.S. Under strong diplomatic pressure, both suspects were eventually deported back to Israel, just like all the ones caught in the NYC area around 9/11.

    A few years earlier, that Haim Saban Israeli fellow had bought the Univision television network, and perhaps if things had turned out a bit differently, horrific scenes of the destruction of the Mexican parliament by apparent "Arab terrorists" would have been broadcast 24/7 into every Hispanic home in America for the next twelve months.

    In attempting to extract reality from our imperfect media, it's always important to consider the distortioning effects of probable skew and adjust accordingly...

    There were two men found with one Glock 9mm inside the Mexican parliament building. The only mentions of explosives I can find are on crazed conspiracy sites.

    http://archivo.eluniversal.com.mx/nacion/68324.html

    The man had a license to carry a concealed weapon and was a security guard. It’s easy to forget you’re wearing a pistol and accidentally go into restricted areas.

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    • Replies: @Ron Unz

    There were two men found with one Glock 9mm inside the Mexican parliament building. The only mentions of explosives I can find are on crazed conspiracy sites.
     
    No, I don't think that's correct. The story was naturally huge in Mexico at the time and when I looked into the matter maybe a decade ago, at least some of the local newspaper accounts mentioned that the Israeli military guy had been caught carrying explosive devices into the Mexican parliament building, which is hardly the sort of detail I'd easily forget.
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  144. @Truth
    Uh Oh!...Part LXII!

    Be careful what you axe for.

    http://qz.com/558326/white-men-shot-several-people-at-a-black-lives-matter-rally-in-minneapolis/?utm_source=YPL

    Truth, believe it or not, white people have rights to.

    BLM is protesting–the death of a serial criminal and girlfriend beater–on public property. Despite some BLM flack talking about “people who did not belong there”, white anti-pro-thuggery protesters *also* have the right to be there and protest the protesters.

    Unfortunately, most blacks (like a lot of leftists) can not fathom the concept of people being allow to disagree with them, so unsurprisingly BLM types try and chase these counter protesters off. And indeed apparently had them on the run.

    Wasn’t there, but i’ll say, i’d rather shoot than let a black mob (even a mob of two or three) catch me. Blacks readily assault whites (and each other). Once down they’ll kick and stomp you. You’re lucky if you don’t end up with serious injury, or being a vegetable, or dead.

    George Zimmerman would quite likely be a vegetable in some hospital if he hadn’t been packing when attacked by the thug Trayvon Martin, who was witnessed raining down blows “MMA sytle” and smacking Zimmerman’s head into the sidewalk.

    Here, we had this kid Kris Kime at Mardi Gras about 15 years back, who went to the assistance of a girl some black thugs were assaulting and had knocked down. For his trouble, some black thug whacked him on the head, knocking him down where upon a bunch of black thugs started kicking the crap outta him … while Seattle police–obeying the PC orders of their leftist political bosses–just stood around the sidelines watching.

    Whites who are going to be around blacks are smart to be armed. Especially if you’re in a “progressive” jurisdiction where PC is turning the police into useless timeservers while feral blacks run free. And if attacked they *should* fire. Hey, the state will no doubt try to railroad you–like they tried with Zimmerman. But better to end up in prison, then beaten and stomped dead like Kris Kime.

    ~~~
    Truth, i know you have a different take on the capabilities and behavior of your people. And that’s fine.

    The simple approach that works for your folks and my folks–separation. Your people run your affairs–have the level of policing and tolerate the level of violence that your people desire. And my people run our affairs and have the level of policing and intolerance for thuggery and violence that we find allows for civilized life. Win-win.

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    • Replies: @Truth

    The simple approach that works for your folks and my folks–separation. Your people run your affairs–have the level of policing and tolerate the level of violence that your people desire.
     
    Cool, what states are you giving us? I like California.
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  145. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer

    I think Trump was just exaggerating in his salesman way to excite the crowds rather than misremembering anything. His comment was that he saw thousands of Muslims cheering in New Jersey with his own eyes, which was to suggest that he personally witnessed it rather than just seeing it on the news. It’s probably not a huge presumption to think that there were Muslims in New Jersey and elsewhere in the US that applauded the 9/11 attacks, and he was probably just exaggerating this fact to make a popular political speech.

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  146. @D. K.
    "Back in 1986, Vanunu, a junior technician at the Dimona nuclear reactor, gave Israel’s nuclear secrets to The Sunday Times, claiming he did so out of opposition to weapons of mass destruction."

    How is that "treason?" It is just "whistle-blowing"-- much the same as Snowden's, more recently. Except, of course, that Vanunu's information merely confirmed what was already widely assumed, whereas much of what Snowden has revealed, thus far, has shocked both citizens, politicians and foreign leaders. "Treason" is defined as fighting for, or otherwise adhering to, an "enemy"-- which does not include the "free press" in an allied nation!

    much of what Snowden has revealed, thus far, has shocked both citizens, politicians and foreign leaders.

    Anyone “shocked” by Snowden’s stories was a terribly naive fool. We knew long before Snowden that NSA was building a shiny new $2 billion data center in Utah and that they already operated more DC space than google. We’ve known for a long time that uttering a certain sequence of words on your telephone will yield a knock on your door within hours. And we knew of Harris’ Stingray, Triggerfish, and Kingfish type devices since the advent of cell phones. Obviously the surveillance tech has kept up with the consumer tech. All Snowden did was confirm what we already “knew” (deduced).

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  147. TangoMan says:
    @WhatEvvs
    OT, the front page of the NYT has the shooting of 5 people at a Black Lives Matter rally. No word on the 16 shot at the hippity hop party in New Orleans.

    Here is the BBC reporting the same story. Notice how they discard the reporting rule of not mentioning the race of the shooters.

    Three white men wearing masks have shot five people protesting about the fatal police shooting of a black man in Minneapolis, say witnesses.

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    • Replies: @Steve Austen
    And getting the race of Barack's would be sons completely wrong.
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  148. @Boomstick
    When I had a small office in an office park I used to get regular cold calls from "art salesmen." Their schtick was to say that they had some art that had been ordered by someone else in the building but that they had since moved out. Rather than take the art back they said they'd cut a deal and give it to me for a rock bottom price.

    They were just selling cheap knockoff Ansel Adams reproductions, obviously without paying any licensing fees. The story was about cancelled orders was just part of the sales pitch. There are plenty of similar scams, including door-to-door meat salesmen. One of the most famous is the "white box speaker" sales guys. They'll cadge you in parking lots and tell you they were making a delivery on expensive stereo speakers, but the deal fell through. Rather than take them back they'll sell you these top-flight speakers for a low, low price. The speakers are actually crap and the price is inflated, but the story helps make the sale.

    If the "Israeli art students" were actually spies I'd expect them to conceal their foreign extraction. From an information gathering standpoint it's a negative to volunteer that information, but probably a positive for making sales of overpriced art.

    I had that happen to me once; a Semi truck pulled up into our subdividion and wanted to sell us some ‘high’ quality furniture that they were supposed to deliver but the buyer reneged and they couldn’t drive all the way back to some other State with it.

    How can this type of sales be effective? Most people are really averse to door to door salesman and will decline. Seems like a waste of time and money to cold call on people.

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  149. @D. K.
    There was plenty of Israeli malfeasance-- like their stealing American supplies of uranium from Pennsylvania!

    There was plenty of Israeli malfeasance– like their stealing American supplies of uranium from Pennsylvania!

    I’m speaking about Vanunu from the perspective of Israel–of which he was a citizen and pledged a secrecy oath when he took his job.

    From the perspective of America, those responsible for the Apollo plant diversion–if there was a diversion; it’s still quite possible it was simply the most sloppily run, leakiest, uranium enrichment plant in the US–should have been brought to justice and executed.

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  150. el topo [AKA "darryl revok"] says:
    @Ben Tzot-Abrit
    You are correct about this. Some Jews also don't grasp how much other Jews devote to this. After 40 years of marriage, my father's side of the family is still flabbergasted at how much energy my mother's side of the family spends on this.

    This is true. As a partial Jew, I have always been fascinated with the question of Jewishness and am able to view it from different angles, as it were. I also have an extremely keen Jewdar and am able to spot Jews and mischlings quite accurately.
    I have friends who are full Jews, however, who seem not at all interested in their Jewishness and completely downplay its significance, though they have many obviously Jewish traits (and typical liberal Jewish politics).

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    • Replies: @SFG
    Funny. I guess I could say the same. How many Mischlingen who have gotten skeptical of the tribe are there here? I thought I was the only one, but it seems fairly common at the fringes of the alt-right.
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  151. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer

    Steve’s gripping anecdote about his friend getting deprived of his shot at Tom Clancy-style bureaucratic glory, due to the punctilious nature of the feds, reminded me of the recent 60 Minutes story on security clearance for Snowden (and He-She Manning, and the spree killer of color at the Naval Yard). All of the details were fairly outrageous but in Snowden’s case, a CIA alert on him was circumvented when he wrote that his work there was “classified” (BTW, so far no smoking matza-ball there aside from the ethnic stripe of his libertarian reporter patron; but I’m confident the case will be cracked). Thus when you make your dark-matter speculations about the overly careful CIA (recently working Iraqi WMD tipsters in such technical niches as a German Burger King franchise) it’s a small relief at least to see your freely offered disclaimer of having no clue. Although it would be nice if you elucidated the off-the-cuff Ecstasy smuggling remark– the last big story on that in the Miami Herald didn’t seem to have a lot of Hebraic overtones at first glance, to a layman’s eyes.

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    • Replies: @SPMoore8
    German Burger King franchise Do they serve their Whoppers on Kaiser rolls?
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  152. @Romanian
    I'm a bit disappointed that SpaceX did not beat them to it. Blue Origin's stuff has been vaporware for some time and has engaged in some lame practices, like hiring SpaceX's people on propulsion and such after they had developed innovative tech (though, apparently, according to the Musk biography, his companies have a high turnover because he's hard to work with). The thing is that it was a bit of a lame attempt: the rocket reached space, not orbit, which requires much more energy and would have made the return much more difficult; the rocket is a lot smaller, because it's not meant to be usable, but a tech platform, while SpaceX attempts to land rockets after they have launched a payload. The near misses of SpaceX were thrilling in themselves, like the rocket falling just as it should have landed, but I appreciate what they were trying to do a bit more. Having just read the Musk biography that Tyler Cowen of MR recommended, I am convinced that I would not want to ever know him, except to discuss Mars a bit. Definitely not work for him. But he's the kind of person that gets things done, and SpaceX has accomplished more with less than Blue Origin. They stole the reusable rocket thunder in a cheap way, compared to how SpaceX was doing it. Yes, I'm a cheerleader. Still, at least things are finally moving. Maybe my children will have their flying cars and Mars bases.

    The near misses of SpaceX were thrilling in themselves, like the rocket falling just as it should have landed, but I appreciate what they were trying to do a bit more.

    But did Musk at least properly credit his (near) success to ¡Diversity! or like Bezos pretend it was all done by white folks whom we know “didn’t build this”?

    Maybe my children will have their flying cars and Mars bases.

    Yeah, you should probably set your hopes a bit lower. I’ll be happy if my kids aren’t forced to pay jizya and the country still has indoor plumbing.

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    • Replies: @Romanian

    Yeah, you should probably set your hopes a bit lower. I’ll be happy if my kids aren’t forced to pay jizya and the country still has indoor plumbing.
     
    You made me laugh out loud. There should be a thread like that.

    Seriously, yeah, space. Lots of potential disappointments there, but people who lived through the optimism of the 1960s and 1970s would know that a lot better than I. I'm sure Musk's companies pay some indirect protection money in the form of caterers and the like to compensate for the lack of melanin on-staff.
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  153. Romanian says:
    @Glossy
    I would guess that the ancient pronunciation was Yoolian.

    It was. I mean it. I did two years of Latin in school.

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  154. Romanian says:
    @Stan D Mute

    The near misses of SpaceX were thrilling in themselves, like the rocket falling just as it should have landed, but I appreciate what they were trying to do a bit more.
     
    But did Musk at least properly credit his (near) success to ¡Diversity! or like Bezos pretend it was all done by white folks whom we know "didn't build this"?

    Maybe my children will have their flying cars and Mars bases.
     
    Yeah, you should probably set your hopes a bit lower. I'll be happy if my kids aren't forced to pay jizya and the country still has indoor plumbing.

    Yeah, you should probably set your hopes a bit lower. I’ll be happy if my kids aren’t forced to pay jizya and the country still has indoor plumbing.

    You made me laugh out loud. There should be a thread like that.

    Seriously, yeah, space. Lots of potential disappointments there, but people who lived through the optimism of the 1960s and 1970s would know that a lot better than I. I’m sure Musk’s companies pay some indirect protection money in the form of caterers and the like to compensate for the lack of melanin on-staff.

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    • Replies: @bomag
    Lots of potential disappointments there, but people who lived through the optimism of the 1960s and 1970s would know that a lot better than I.

    Pretty much the theme was that the gov't shouldn't countenance spending money on advancements in space while we had all these social problems on Earth, problems that will soon be solved if we could just spend more money on them.

    The social problems have shown themselves to be completely fractal, while our gov't, via the various iron laws of bureaucracy, Peter principles, mass wasting, and general increase in entropy; has become much less able to get things done.

    The advances in tech, helped greatly by the Moon missions etc., has now made the current private sector efforts possible. Let's hope it bears fruit.

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  155. notsaying says:

    I think this is another case where Trump’s big mouth comes out with something from the far corner of his brain.

    It seems to me that there’s two Donald Trumps: the sane one who’s often honest and quite right about things that people like him usually deny and the other one that’s off in la-la land somewhere. The bad thing is that it looks like sane Donald ends up believing his own BS a lot of the time.

    Anyway, for those who are interested, here’s links to two articles from nj.com that indicate that there were no cheering thousands in Jersey City or anywhere else in New Jersey, either.

    http://www.nj.com/politics/index.ssf/2015/11/trump_says_old_news_clip_shows_hes_owed_an_apology.html

    “Shai Goldstein, the former New Jersey regional director of the Anti-Defamation League, said it’s possible that Trump and others are confusing alleged cheering in New Jersey with celebrations that occurred in the West Bank on 9/11.

    “Nothing happened in Jersey City nor Paterson,” Goldstein told NJ Advance Media. “No one knew when the Twin Towers fell who was responsible and investigations by the ADL concluded there were no celebrations of any kind — none — in Paterson or any where else in New Jersey.”

    http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2015/11/star-ledger_coverage_of_nj_muslim_communities_in_t.html?hootPostID=68175e4af508e144b6be8fdc791a1f1b#incart_river_home

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    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    "the ADL concluded there were no celebrations of any kind — none — in Paterson or any where else in New Jersey.”

    Not what ABC News concluded.
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  156. Um. No. That’s not what Trump remembers. He’s lying. Anyone who doesn’t think he’s lying is lying to themself.

    Yes. There were celebrations in other parts of the world. But not in New Jersey. He can’t admit he’s wrong.

    Sign of bad character in a bad person.

    The article posted has little if anything to do with the current Trump controversy.

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  157. @TangoMan
    Here is the BBC reporting the same story. Notice how they discard the reporting rule of not mentioning the race of the shooters.

    Three white men wearing masks have shot five people protesting about the fatal police shooting of a black man in Minneapolis, say witnesses.
     

    And getting the race of Barack’s would be sons completely wrong.

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  158. Rurik says:

    I doubt if this was terribly important incident, although I have to say I was surprised to see how seriously the FBI took it.

    they had a video camera set up to watch the first plane hit the tower

    than means they had advance knowledge

    and they were clearly celebrating the horror

    the imbeciles then went on Israeli television to explain that they were there to “document the event’

    that means that they knew it was going to happen, were Israeli intelligence and perhaps significantly, their bosses and higher-ups in the Israeli government didn’t think it was important to warn the Americans that this singularly evil crime event was about to happen

    Personally I consider that important, since we send billions of dollars to Israel every year, I think it’s rather ungrateful for them to take all that money and then cynically watch us being murdered with cameras rolling and then dancing and high-fiving at our loss, even if they do think that- USS Liberty like- it will cause us to kill their (myriad and well-earned) enemies for them.

    And then Bibi blurted out of the attacks that “they’re very good”, before amending it and considering the PR repercussions, to say something like ‘well, it’s good for Israel’, or some such thing

    one more reason I consider this a rather important incident is because of the way all our politicians, and especially the presidential candidates from both parties are always clamoring to demand that ‘Israel is our best ally ever!’ and ‘we can never do enough for Israel!’, it just seems a little unseemly when you consider how Israel treats the American tax payer and dances around as they’re horrifically slaughtered or dropping from the towers or dying slowly in the flames.

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    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    "they had a video camera set up to watch the first plane hit the tower"

    Do we know that? From what? This ABC News story begins with eyewitness Maria's account, who didn't start looking until after the first tower was hit. After a while she noticed the Israelis.

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  159. OT – Sweden chucks the towel in.

    http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/nov/24/sweden-asylum-seekers-refugees-policy-reversal

    “Sweden needs “respite” from the tens of thousands of refugees knocking at its door, the government has said, announcing tough measures to deter asylum seekers in a sharp reversal of its open-door policy towards people fleeing war and persecution.
    The country’s generous asylum regime would revert to the “EU minimum”, Sweden’s prime minister, Stefan Löfven, said on Tuesday, revealing that most refugees would receive only temporary residence permits from April.
    Identity checks would be imposed on all modes of transport, and the right to bring families to Sweden would be severely restricted, he said.”

    The Greens’ deputy prime minister, Åsa Romson, broke into tears as she announced the measures.

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    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Thanks, I'll post.
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  160. Seth says:
    @tanabear
    Seth: "The idea that these guys were up to anything in particular is absurd."

    If it was absurd then they wouldn't have been contained for 71 days and questioned about their activities on 09/11/2001 over and over again. They obviously had to arouse some sort of suspicion and stand out from other witnesses of the towers burning otherwise the police would not have been called. Urban Moving Systems/Company was apparently a front company for the Mossad. Three of the suspects were Mossad agents. This is very suspicious.

    But why were they so giddy and happy?

    From the FBI report: "...one of the males appeared to be taking still photographs and video of the other males with the WTC in the background. All of the males appeared to be jovial in that they smiled, hugged one another, and gave "high fives".

    "Film obtained from the 35mm camera of one of the detainees was later developed and processed by the Newark Division. The photos clearly corroborate [Blank's] statements in that the Israelis are visibly happy on nearly all of the photgraphs."

    Do you imagine that Mossad spies are so clumsily trained that they high-five each other and dance and smile in public when their mission comes off?

    You ask why they were happy. Who knows? Maybe they were just jerks.

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    • Replies: @tanabear
    Well, a few of them were members of the Mossad and they were dancing, smiling and having a gay ole time. So you seem to have trouble accepting reality. It isn't important if they were well-trained. It is only important that the American media is.
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  161. Hokie says:

    organized crime (e.g., the Ecstasy pill trade)

    Weird that you mention that. I was just reading about how a lot of the funds from Project Coast ended up being used by Wouter Basson t0 buy the chemical precursors to Ecstasy. The post-Apartheid government couldn’t figure out where the chemicals or money went, and somehow two biotech guys (Dr. Larry Ford and Pat Riley from Biofem in California) ended up dying. Nothing in there mentioned the Israelis though.

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    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/news/israelis-at-center-of-ecstasy-drug-trade-1.13809
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  162. Svigor says:

    I also have an extremely keen Jewdar and am able to spot Jews and mischlings quite accurately.

    Well, you must have the gene for it or a license to practice or something, because when I say stuff like this I’m condemned as an icky “ANTISEMITE!!!”

    Although it would be nice if you elucidated the off-the-cuff Ecstasy smuggling remark– the last big story on that in the Miami Herald didn’t seem to have a lot of Hebraic overtones at first glance, to a layman’s eyes.

    Israelis dominate ecstasy trade

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  163. @Rurik

    I doubt if this was terribly important incident, although I have to say I was surprised to see how seriously the FBI took it.
     
    they had a video camera set up to watch the first plane hit the tower

    than means they had advance knowledge

    and they were clearly celebrating the horror

    the imbeciles then went on Israeli television to explain that they were there to "document the event'

    that means that they knew it was going to happen, were Israeli intelligence and perhaps significantly, their bosses and higher-ups in the Israeli government didn't think it was important to warn the Americans that this singularly evil crime event was about to happen

    Personally I consider that important, since we send billions of dollars to Israel every year, I think it's rather ungrateful for them to take all that money and then cynically watch us being murdered with cameras rolling and then dancing and high-fiving at our loss, even if they do think that- USS Liberty like- it will cause us to kill their (myriad and well-earned) enemies for them.

    And then Bibi blurted out of the attacks that "they're very good", before amending it and considering the PR repercussions, to say something like 'well, it's good for Israel', or some such thing

    one more reason I consider this a rather important incident is because of the way all our politicians, and especially the presidential candidates from both parties are always clamoring to demand that 'Israel is our best ally ever!' and 'we can never do enough for Israel!', it just seems a little unseemly when you consider how Israel treats the American tax payer and dances around as they're horrifically slaughtered or dropping from the towers or dying slowly in the flames.

    “they had a video camera set up to watch the first plane hit the tower”

    Do we know that? From what? This ABC News story begins with eyewitness Maria’s account, who didn’t start looking until after the first tower was hit. After a while she noticed the Israelis.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Rurik
    They went on television and said they were there to "document the event". They had the camera set up and were seen celebrating after the FIRST plane hit.

    from a link:

    "Witnesses reported they had set cameras PRIOR to the first plane strike"

    here:

    https://wikispooks.com/wiki/9-11/Israel_did_it

    I can and will research it further if that is a significant point for you. I'd be happy to find out all I can.

    But what we do know is, as I've said, they had a camera set up when the first plane hit. (I don't have proof right now that it was filming at the moment, but since George Bush has stated publically that he too saw the first plane his the tower, we know there were several cameras watching).

    So, since they had a camera set up (presumably for the purpose of filming the event), and since they admitted that they were there to "document the event, it seems reasonable to assume that the camera was filming. No?
    , @tanabear
    Steve: "Do we know that? From what?"

    They started filming and photographing themselves right after the first plane hit the North Tower. At that point how did they know it was a terrorist attack? Most of the assumptions were that it was some kind of horrible accident. It wasn't until the second plane hit the South Tower that everyone became aware of a coordinated attack. So why so giddy over a random plane flying into a building? Also I wonder why we have never seen any of these photographs? Rhetorical question.

    Also from the FBI report: "'A former Urban Moving Systems employee later contacted the Newark Division with information indicating that he had quit his employment with Urban Moving Systems due to high amount of anti-American sentiment present among Urban's employees. The former employee stated that an Israeli employee of Urban had even once remarked, 'Give us twenty (20) years and we'll take over your media and destroy your country.'"

    p.s. And these are our allies.
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  164. @Hokie

    organized crime (e.g., the Ecstasy pill trade)
     
    Weird that you mention that. I was just reading about how a lot of the funds from Project Coast ended up being used by Wouter Basson t0 buy the chemical precursors to Ecstasy. The post-Apartheid government couldn't figure out where the chemicals or money went, and somehow two biotech guys (Dr. Larry Ford and Pat Riley from Biofem in California) ended up dying. Nothing in there mentioned the Israelis though.
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  165. Svigor says:

    the same sort of way that Ireland verifies that one of your four grandparents was Irish, before giving you your Irish passport.

    No shit? I’ve got an Irish grandma. Do they have Apartheid there, too?

    Aw, I checked. “Irish grandparent” means a grandparent born in Ireland. Not the same at all.

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  166. @Drakejax
    Don't confuse professional intelligence agents, who in Israel's case are very well vetted and trained, with the thousands of various contacts and assets they utilize. A German just got convicted for having been retained by the CIA; he worked as a mail handler for the German intelligence agency. The German was the asset, the actual "agents" worked in another country.

    The implication in several of the posts here is that very low level assets (the moving company illegals) would have had knowledge of a Mossad plot on 9/11. That is absurd. That would mean the Israeli intelligence agency would be staffed by idiots and that persons posting on this blog and various internet nuts would have uncovered the great secret. If the Mossad can penetrate Iran and kill Iranian nuclear scientists, which by all accounts they did, despite the scientists being under tight guard and despite the Iranians being aware the Israelis had every intention of killing them, no one on this blog has uncovered anything at all about the Mossad. Or maybe I am a secret Mossad Elks Club Masonic Temple Super “Shabbo Goy” – as someone here so eloquently put it.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Rurik

    The implication in several of the posts here is that very low level assets (the moving company illegals) would have had knowledge of a Mossad plot on 9/11. That is absurd.
     
    speaking of foreknowledge of the attacks, did you know Al Franken wrote in his book that he was warned not to go to work at the WTC that day?

    One of the widely disseminated stories was that no Jews died in the collapse of the Trade Towers because they had received calls telling them not to go to work that day. To tell you the truth, I got the Jew call. I had an office in the Trade Center where I used to do most of my writing. The call came from former New York mayor Ed Koch. “Al,” he told me, “don’t go to work on the twenty-third day of Elul [September 11 – ed].”

    just Google it

    isn't that a curious phenomena? First that it was widely enough known that people were warning (certain) other people about it, and then that he'd write such a thing in a book!
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  167. Steve, this is a ridiculous Larry David CYI episode.

    http://gorillavid.in/tmvxajjvpqzl

    He accuses the LA weatherman of predicting rain so people change plans and the weatherman has the course wide open the next day when it is sunny.

    Here is the with links to the episodes. My wife is hooked on the show.

    http://thewatchseries.to/serie/curb_your_enthusiasm

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  168. Some of this may be because of a photo Instapundit posted years ago of some yuppies on a roof looking blase as they looked on as the WTC burned.

    Another odd I thing I saw on the local news. I forget how long it was after, maybe 3-4 hours. A reporter was reporting on the incident from what he said was the closest he could get to the site while not interfering in the rescue, 20-30 blocks I remember. I saw a woman jogging behind him.

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  169. @notsaying
    I think this is another case where Trump's big mouth comes out with something from the far corner of his brain.

    It seems to me that there's two Donald Trumps: the sane one who's often honest and quite right about things that people like him usually deny and the other one that's off in la-la land somewhere. The bad thing is that it looks like sane Donald ends up believing his own BS a lot of the time.

    Anyway, for those who are interested, here's links to two articles from nj.com that indicate that there were no cheering thousands in Jersey City or anywhere else in New Jersey, either.

    http://www.nj.com/politics/index.ssf/2015/11/trump_says_old_news_clip_shows_hes_owed_an_apology.html

    "Shai Goldstein, the former New Jersey regional director of the Anti-Defamation League, said it's possible that Trump and others are confusing alleged cheering in New Jersey with celebrations that occurred in the West Bank on 9/11.

    "Nothing happened in Jersey City nor Paterson," Goldstein told NJ Advance Media. "No one knew when the Twin Towers fell who was responsible and investigations by the ADL concluded there were no celebrations of any kind — none — in Paterson or any where else in New Jersey."

    http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2015/11/star-ledger_coverage_of_nj_muslim_communities_in_t.html?hootPostID=68175e4af508e144b6be8fdc791a1f1b#incart_river_home

    “the ADL concluded there were no celebrations of any kind — none — in Paterson or any where else in New Jersey.”

    Not what ABC News concluded.

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    • Replies: @notsaying
    If we are going to argue this in terms of what Donald Trump could have seen on TV or in person or what the ADL could have used as evidence that proved thousands cheered, I don't think we can count the ABC News story, can we?

    The experience of the eyewitness Maria was not captured by a video or broadcast on TV and the ABC News story was about just five people.

    Did I miss something?
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  170. @Dave Pinsen
    I would think Israel's laxity regarding that post-Soviet wave was intentional. Israel's leaders likely saw it as a demographic bulwark against Arabs as well as against Mizrahi Jews.

    Ariel Sharon was a really Slavic-looking guy. I can’t remember if one of his parents came from a Russian group that converted to Judaism in Russia.

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    • Replies: @kaganovitch
    Sharon's mother is from a Subbotnik family
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  171. @gcochran
    It never happened, not in the US. Whiskey is never correct.

    I think people have forgotten how raw emotions (understandably) were on 9/11. If there had really been a huge crowd of thousands cheering the attacks in public, the result would have been a battle in the streets between them and non-Muslims. Especially in the New York metropolitan area! A small group or a single individual might well have ended up outright lynched. Who knows what might have gone on behind closed doors, but huge demonstrations in public could not have happened without consequences.

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    • Agree: NOTA
    • Replies: @gcochran
    Of course.
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  172. Rurik says:
    @Steve Sailer
    "they had a video camera set up to watch the first plane hit the tower"

    Do we know that? From what? This ABC News story begins with eyewitness Maria's account, who didn't start looking until after the first tower was hit. After a while she noticed the Israelis.

    They went on television and said they were there to “document the event”. They had the camera set up and were seen celebrating after the FIRST plane hit.

    from a link:

    “Witnesses reported they had set cameras PRIOR to the first plane strike”

    here:

    https://wikispooks.com/wiki/9-11/Israel_did_it

    I can and will research it further if that is a significant point for you. I’d be happy to find out all I can.

    But what we do know is, as I’ve said, they had a camera set up when the first plane hit. (I don’t have proof right now that it was filming at the moment, but since George Bush has stated publically that he too saw the first plane his the tower, we know there were several cameras watching).

    So, since they had a camera set up (presumably for the purpose of filming the event), and since they admitted that they were there to “document the event, it seems reasonable to assume that the camera was filming. No?

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  173. Bill B. says:

    OT

    A brisk response in the London Telegraph to a Muslim Uber driver who berated an ageing actress, so good.

    But this paragraph truly shocked me: “Astonishingly, according to one Belgian official speaking yesterday on Radio 4, the population of Brussels, the capital of Europe, is 40 per cent Muslim. Shell-shocked politicians now admit there has been perilously little integration. ”

    Did the writer not know? Did she not read the papers? Is this going to be the excuse then, we didn’t know?

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/islamic-state/12014689/Frances-Barber-is-right-Islamic-extremism-is-making-London-unrecognisable.html

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  174. @Boomstick
    When I had a small office in an office park I used to get regular cold calls from "art salesmen." Their schtick was to say that they had some art that had been ordered by someone else in the building but that they had since moved out. Rather than take the art back they said they'd cut a deal and give it to me for a rock bottom price.

    They were just selling cheap knockoff Ansel Adams reproductions, obviously without paying any licensing fees. The story was about cancelled orders was just part of the sales pitch. There are plenty of similar scams, including door-to-door meat salesmen. One of the most famous is the "white box speaker" sales guys. They'll cadge you in parking lots and tell you they were making a delivery on expensive stereo speakers, but the deal fell through. Rather than take them back they'll sell you these top-flight speakers for a low, low price. The speakers are actually crap and the price is inflated, but the story helps make the sale.

    If the "Israeli art students" were actually spies I'd expect them to conceal their foreign extraction. From an information gathering standpoint it's a negative to volunteer that information, but probably a positive for making sales of overpriced art.

    When I had a small office in an office park I used to get regular cold calls from “art salesmen.” Their schtick was to say that they had some art that had been ordered by someone else in the building but that they had since moved out. Rather than take the art back they said they’d cut a deal and give it to me for a rock bottom price.

    They were just selling cheap knockoff Ansel Adams reproductions, obviously without paying any licensing fees. The story was about cancelled orders was just part of the sales pitch. There are plenty of similar scams, including door-to-door meat salesmen. One of the most famous is the “white box speaker” sales guys. They’ll cadge you in parking lots and tell you they were making a delivery on expensive stereo speakers, but the deal fell through. Rather than take them back they’ll sell you these top-flight speakers for a low, low price. The speakers are actually crap and the price is inflated, but the story helps make the sale.

    If the “Israeli art students” were actually spies I’d expect them to conceal their foreign extraction. From an information gathering standpoint it’s a negative to volunteer that information, but probably a positive for making sales of overpriced art.

    OK, but that doesn’t really explain why they followed my dad and I all over Santa Clara County for a week or two, does it? How many times could the two of us run into them all over various “Silicon Valley” locales, before it stopped being “a coincidence?”

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    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    "How many times could the two of us run into them all over various “Silicon Valley” locales, before it stopped being “a coincidence?”

    Right. I live in a suburban area of similar density and size to Silicon Valley, the San Fernando Valley, and I almost never run into the same individuals multiple times in a month.

    Perhaps the Israeli Art Students thing was a traditional Israeli-kids-abroad mild scam that Israeli intelligence (or economic espionage guys) occasionally piggybacked off to target high value sites?

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  175. Rurik says:

    This is from a Fox News link

    at the bottom

    The New York Times reported Thursday that a group of five men had set up video cameras aimed at the Twin Towers prior to the attack on Tuesday, and were seen congratulating one another afterwards.

    my emphasis

    http://www.foxnews.com/story/2001/09/14/one-arrested-others-detained-at-ny-airports.html

    Read More
    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Thanks, now can you find the NYT article the Fox article is citing?

    I'm not saying they got it wrong -- like I said, in reading this old article from ABC News, I was surprised to learn how serious the FBI was about interrogating these guys, like 40 days in solitary.

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  176. @NOTA
    Even if the Israelis knew ahead of time, why would they send people in the field who knew ahead of time, and put them in a position to be arrested and questioned by the FBI?

    Why would Israelis use illegals working as movers to record such an event and celebrate it publicly? Because according to the sleuths on this board, not only are the Israeli intelligence agencies dumb, they verge on the retarded.

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    • Replies: @Zed, Lord of the Brutals
    You want a realistic depiction of the IC? Watch the movie "Spies Like Us" and "Office Space."
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  177. tbraton says:
    @Truth
    Uh Oh!...Part LXII!

    Be careful what you axe for.

    http://qz.com/558326/white-men-shot-several-people-at-a-black-lives-matter-rally-in-minneapolis/?utm_source=YPL

    “Uh Oh!…Part LXII!”

    I hate to inform you, but you are in clear violation of the NFL’s exclusive license from the Romans to use Roman numerals. Pay up!

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  178. Svigor says:

    Heard on NPR today (paraphrasing): “Muslims are the main victims of ISIS, they’re the main group battling ISIS, and now they’re the people being blamed for ISIS.”

    Yeah, well, that’s because ISIS is Muslim, you jackasses. Perhaps more to the point, the people victimized by ISIS and the people fighting ISIS are far less Muslim than ISIS is. These people have their (stupid) rhetoric well-honed from the better part of a century spent whitewashing blacks.

    “the ADL concluded there were no celebrations of any kind — none — in Paterson or any where else in New Jersey.”

    Well, I guess that makes everything all white then, doesn’t it?

    The implication in several of the posts here is that very low level assets (the moving company illegals) would have had knowledge of a Mossad plot on 9/11. That is absurd.

    Dunno. Take it up with the people who made those posts. The fact I am stating is that there was speculation in the wake of 9/11 that the Mossad agents were tracking terrorists in America and knew attacks were imminent.

    Or maybe I am a secret Mossad Elks Club Masonic Temple Super “Shabbo Goy” – as someone here so eloquently put it.

    The famous Jewish comedic genius is on display, I suppose.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Cwhatfuture
    Yes, you supposed right on that one point. On all the rest you supposed wrong.
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  179. @Rurik
    This is from a Fox News link

    at the bottom

    The New York Times reported Thursday that a group of five men had set up video cameras aimed at the Twin Towers prior to the attack on Tuesday, and were seen congratulating one another afterwards.

    my emphasis

    http://www.foxnews.com/story/2001/09/14/one-arrested-others-detained-at-ny-airports.html

    Thanks, now can you find the NYT article the Fox article is citing?

    I’m not saying they got it wrong — like I said, in reading this old article from ABC News, I was surprised to learn how serious the FBI was about interrogating these guys, like 40 days in solitary.

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    • Replies: @Rurik
    I tried Steve..

    seems to be 'memory holed', but if that one detail would make a difference to the narrative for you, I'll still find what I can.

    I notice you didn't consider my little blurt about how George Bush said publically (and on camera) that he saw the first plane hit WTC tower- curious. Did you know that? Does it matter to your mind if he said it or even if he did see it?

    I don't know where you stand on the whole 911 thing. A lot of people consider it prudent to not care too much. Perhaps it is.

    On a semi-related note Carl Cameron of Fox News did a story on Israeli "art student' spies rounded up after 911

    'evidence linking these Israelis to 9-11 is classified. I cannot tell you about evidence that has been gathered. It's classified information.'


    http://www.salon.com/2002/05/07/students/

    http://www.antiwar.com/justin/j030802.html
    , @This Is Our Home

    Thanks, now can you find the NYT article the Fox article is citing?

    I’m not saying they got it wrong — like I said, in reading this old article from ABC News, I was surprised to learn how serious the FBI was about interrogating these guys, like 40 days in solitary
     
    I have found the New York Time article quoted here: http://www.911myths.com/index.php/Dancing_Israelis

    It helpfully comes with a lot of other information that makes this all look silly. Not that a theory like this needs to be made to look sillier.

    If I needed to document 9/11, having planned it. I would set up a camera from inside a closed apartment window and leave it set up. I certainly wouldn't send five Israeli bums to party on down in a very visible location with money in a sock...indeed I wouldn't even document it, as the rest of the world would do that for me, and what would I gain?

    I especially wouldn't have my hobo spies go on television and admit to it!

    The 9/11 truth movement is a cancer on alternative politics in the West. It sucks the life out of any feasible movement and slurs all of us by association. Donald Trump avoids this slur because he never gives succour to it and he obviously is not part of it, even if the insaniacs somehow believe that he is secretly messaging them. The 9/11 'theory' can only be believed by those who have never organised anything even as big as a bake sale...

    This means that not only is the message polluted but because the message is now largely the messenger, our message is associated with a toxic mixture of self-aggrandising liars and the obviously crazy.

    You should not ban these guys, but please do not entertain them.

    God, I wish I might recommend your blog to others but some things are just too hard to recover from being associated with. Unz.com is now not only the site for opinions rendered taboo by the PC zeitgeist but also for opinions so utterly nuts that the zeitgeist rejects them too; can we not save it for infowars.com or some other place that has been telling the US population that they'll be in FEMA camps tomorrow for the past 15 years?

    Courses of action could include:

    1. A mirror site with no comments; which is technically easy.

    2. A mirror site with conspiracy nonsense comments moderated out; which would take more time but would be more useful.

    3. You address this type of thinking in your blog posts; which would cover a generally interesting topic but may distract you from bigger things. Still, you have greater experience of this type of thinking than the majority of public intellectuals.
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  180. notsaying says:
    @Steve Sailer
    "the ADL concluded there were no celebrations of any kind — none — in Paterson or any where else in New Jersey.”

    Not what ABC News concluded.

    If we are going to argue this in terms of what Donald Trump could have seen on TV or in person or what the ADL could have used as evidence that proved thousands cheered, I don’t think we can count the ABC News story, can we?

    The experience of the eyewitness Maria was not captured by a video or broadcast on TV and the ABC News story was about just five people.

    Did I miss something?

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    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    The Israelis' lawyer admitted they were acting suspiciously and that Maria's reactions were reasonable.

    The FBI took the suspicions seriously.

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  181. @Kevin O'Keeffe
    "When I had a small office in an office park I used to get regular cold calls from “art salesmen.” Their schtick was to say that they had some art that had been ordered by someone else in the building but that they had since moved out. Rather than take the art back they said they’d cut a deal and give it to me for a rock bottom price.

    They were just selling cheap knockoff Ansel Adams reproductions, obviously without paying any licensing fees. The story was about cancelled orders was just part of the sales pitch. There are plenty of similar scams, including door-to-door meat salesmen. One of the most famous is the “white box speaker” sales guys. They’ll cadge you in parking lots and tell you they were making a delivery on expensive stereo speakers, but the deal fell through. Rather than take them back they’ll sell you these top-flight speakers for a low, low price. The speakers are actually crap and the price is inflated, but the story helps make the sale.

    If the “Israeli art students” were actually spies I’d expect them to conceal their foreign extraction. From an information gathering standpoint it’s a negative to volunteer that information, but probably a positive for making sales of overpriced art."

    OK, but that doesn't really explain why they followed my dad and I all over Santa Clara County for a week or two, does it? How many times could the two of us run into them all over various "Silicon Valley" locales, before it stopped being "a coincidence?"

    “How many times could the two of us run into them all over various “Silicon Valley” locales, before it stopped being “a coincidence?”

    Right. I live in a suburban area of similar density and size to Silicon Valley, the San Fernando Valley, and I almost never run into the same individuals multiple times in a month.

    Perhaps the Israeli Art Students thing was a traditional Israeli-kids-abroad mild scam that Israeli intelligence (or economic espionage guys) occasionally piggybacked off to target high value sites?

    Read More
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  182. @notsaying
    If we are going to argue this in terms of what Donald Trump could have seen on TV or in person or what the ADL could have used as evidence that proved thousands cheered, I don't think we can count the ABC News story, can we?

    The experience of the eyewitness Maria was not captured by a video or broadcast on TV and the ABC News story was about just five people.

    Did I miss something?

    The Israelis’ lawyer admitted they were acting suspiciously and that Maria’s reactions were reasonable.

    The FBI took the suspicions seriously.

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  183. G Pinfold says:
    @Boomstick
    When I had a small office in an office park I used to get regular cold calls from "art salesmen." Their schtick was to say that they had some art that had been ordered by someone else in the building but that they had since moved out. Rather than take the art back they said they'd cut a deal and give it to me for a rock bottom price.

    They were just selling cheap knockoff Ansel Adams reproductions, obviously without paying any licensing fees. The story was about cancelled orders was just part of the sales pitch. There are plenty of similar scams, including door-to-door meat salesmen. One of the most famous is the "white box speaker" sales guys. They'll cadge you in parking lots and tell you they were making a delivery on expensive stereo speakers, but the deal fell through. Rather than take them back they'll sell you these top-flight speakers for a low, low price. The speakers are actually crap and the price is inflated, but the story helps make the sale.

    If the "Israeli art students" were actually spies I'd expect them to conceal their foreign extraction. From an information gathering standpoint it's a negative to volunteer that information, but probably a positive for making sales of overpriced art.

    The scam works on greed, so it’s very effective. The simplest is to imply that the goods are ‘dodgy’. So for example: ‘A bottle of Chanel Number 5 for a fiver, but better make it quick. I can’t hang around, if you know what I mean?’ Often an insider makes the first purchase, setting off the marks. Of course, the sting is that the goods are actually dodgy; not stolen, but 2 dollar knock-offs. As with all these schemes, its hard to catch someone twice, so they rely on fresh meat. But as PT Barnum said…

    BTW, as as non-Israeli student, I sold ‘original oil paintings’ door to door for a guy named Friedman. I was never equipped with a Minox camera or anything, but then I never made Salesman-of-the-Week either, so who knows?

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  184. @Steve Sailer
    Ariel Sharon was a really Slavic-looking guy. I can't remember if one of his parents came from a Russian group that converted to Judaism in Russia.

    Sharon’s mother is from a Subbotnik family

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  185. SPMoore8 says:
    @Anonymous
    Steve's gripping anecdote about his friend getting deprived of his shot at Tom Clancy-style bureaucratic glory, due to the punctilious nature of the feds, reminded me of the recent 60 Minutes story on security clearance for Snowden (and He-She Manning, and the spree killer of color at the Naval Yard). All of the details were fairly outrageous but in Snowden's case, a CIA alert on him was circumvented when he wrote that his work there was "classified" (BTW, so far no smoking matza-ball there aside from the ethnic stripe of his libertarian reporter patron; but I'm confident the case will be cracked). Thus when you make your dark-matter speculations about the overly careful CIA (recently working Iraqi WMD tipsters in such technical niches as a German Burger King franchise) it's a small relief at least to see your freely offered disclaimer of having no clue. Although it would be nice if you elucidated the off-the-cuff Ecstasy smuggling remark-- the last big story on that in the Miami Herald didn't seem to have a lot of Hebraic overtones at first glance, to a layman's eyes.

    German Burger King franchise Do they serve their Whoppers on Kaiser rolls?

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    • Replies: @SFG
    Nein, but all ze burger patties are exactly 1 kg, nicht wahr?
    , @Ozymandias
    "German Burger King franchise Do they serve their Whoppers on Kaiser rolls?"

    They're available on the local menu in Hamburg.

    @tbraton
    There's a photo out there somewhere showing the base of #7 before it fell. The rubble field from the collapsed tower destroyed about a third of 7's footprint, and after hours of uncontrolled burning it was expected to fall. Nothing unusual about it. And you know, if you wanted to take down a tower, recruiting Islamic fundamentalists to fly a plane into it is a much better plan than a surreptitious demolition. The initial explosion will blow the fire proofing off, and the resulting fire is more than hot enough to weaken the structure (ignoring any insane arguments about "melting point").
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  186. Chiron says:

    Though Israel is a famously fractious society, Israelis tend to agree on one thing: Their strongest supporters are an inherently dupable people.

    “Most Israelis think Americans are pro-Israel and we can sell them anything, especially mud from the Dead Sea,” said David Lifshitz, the lead writer for the Israeli comedy show “Eretz Nehederet,” or “Wonderful Land.”

    “Or — just regular mud with a ‘Dead Sea’ sticker on it.”

    Read more: http://forward.com/news/israel/216074/what-do-israelis-think-about-americans-start-with/#ixzz3sScmalQk

    Read More
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  187. @Richard S
    Something like "Guy-uz Yule-lee-uz Kae-sar"; but then technically he was never emperor :)

    It is Julian Castro we are referring to, as in the Emperor Julian the Apostate not Julius

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  188. Rurik says:
    @Steve Sailer
    Thanks, now can you find the NYT article the Fox article is citing?

    I'm not saying they got it wrong -- like I said, in reading this old article from ABC News, I was surprised to learn how serious the FBI was about interrogating these guys, like 40 days in solitary.

    I tried Steve..

    seems to be ‘memory holed’, but if that one detail would make a difference to the narrative for you, I’ll still find what I can.

    I notice you didn’t consider my little blurt about how George Bush said publically (and on camera) that he saw the first plane hit WTC tower- curious. Did you know that? Does it matter to your mind if he said it or even if he did see it?

    I don’t know where you stand on the whole 911 thing. A lot of people consider it prudent to not care too much. Perhaps it is.

    On a semi-related note Carl Cameron of Fox News did a story on Israeli “art student’ spies rounded up after 911

    ‘evidence linking these Israelis to 9-11 is classified. I cannot tell you about evidence that has been gathered. It’s classified information.’

    http://www.salon.com/2002/05/07/students/

    http://www.antiwar.com/justin/j030802.html

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    • Replies: @Mr. Anon
    "I notice you didn’t consider my little blurt about how George Bush said publically (and on camera) that he saw the first plane hit WTC tower- curious. Did you know that? Does it matter to your mind if he said it or even if he did see it?"

    And what is so odd about that?

    "I don’t know where you stand on the whole 911 thing. A lot of people consider it prudent to not care too much. Perhaps it is. "

    A lot of people consider it prudent not to indulge in the kind of insanity that has largely come to characterizes the "Truther" movement.
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  189. tbraton says:

    It just occurred to me what Donald Trump remembers seeing and confused with thousands of Muslims in New Jersey cheering the collapse of the Twin Towers was actually seeing thousands of blacks across the country cheering the acquittal of O.J. Simpson. Who could forget that display of civic virtue, a large segment of the U.S. population actually cheering the acquittal of a brutal murderer? Oh, that’s right, the two victims were white. Nothing to get excited about.

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  190. @Karl
    >> Who said they do a good job?

    Ever since the 1750's (first publication of a Hebrew-language mathematics school-text), nationalistic Zionism has been almost completely led by non-religious Jews.

    It is easily possible to paint the picture that "Judaism" as a stand-alone, organized "religion", didn't really exist until after the Roman destruction of the Second Temple. Hebrew kings - up to & including Herod - never (to my memory of the bible) tried to dual-hat themselves as a High Priest. Actually, quite a few of them used tax monies to support pagan shrines. The municipality of Jerusalem still gives away free Christmas trees every year. In fact, it's going to happen in a coupla weeks.


    Even deep within the bowels of the Temple bureaucracy itself, the King always had total control of crowd-control and even liturgical arrangements. 1 Chronicles 25. Kinda like mosques nowadays in the Gulf states?

    “Hebrew kings – up to & including Herod – never (to my memory of the bible) tried to dual-hat themselves as a High Priest. ”

    Your memory is off fwiw. Pretty much the entire hasmonean dynasty was dual hat . Herod didn’t try it because he was unfit for priestly caste due to ancestry.

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  191. gcochran says:
    @James Kabala
    I think people have forgotten how raw emotions (understandably) were on 9/11. If there had really been a huge crowd of thousands cheering the attacks in public, the result would have been a battle in the streets between them and non-Muslims. Especially in the New York metropolitan area! A small group or a single individual might well have ended up outright lynched. Who knows what might have gone on behind closed doors, but huge demonstrations in public could not have happened without consequences.

    Of course.

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  192. Rurik says:
    @cwhatfuture
    The implication in several of the posts here is that very low level assets (the moving company illegals) would have had knowledge of a Mossad plot on 9/11. That is absurd. That would mean the Israeli intelligence agency would be staffed by idiots and that persons posting on this blog and various internet nuts would have uncovered the great secret. If the Mossad can penetrate Iran and kill Iranian nuclear scientists, which by all accounts they did, despite the scientists being under tight guard and despite the Iranians being aware the Israelis had every intention of killing them, no one on this blog has uncovered anything at all about the Mossad. Or maybe I am a secret Mossad Elks Club Masonic Temple Super "Shabbo Goy" - as someone here so eloquently put it.

    The implication in several of the posts here is that very low level assets (the moving company illegals) would have had knowledge of a Mossad plot on 9/11. That is absurd.

    speaking of foreknowledge of the attacks, did you know Al Franken wrote in his book that he was warned not to go to work at the WTC that day?

    One of the widely disseminated stories was that no Jews died in the collapse of the Trade Towers because they had received calls telling them not to go to work that day. To tell you the truth, I got the Jew call. I had an office in the Trade Center where I used to do most of my writing. The call came from former New York mayor Ed Koch. “Al,” he told me, “don’t go to work on the twenty-third day of Elul [September 11 – ed].”

    just Google it

    isn’t that a curious phenomena? First that it was widely enough known that people were warning (certain) other people about it, and then that he’d write such a thing in a book!

    Read More
    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    But Stuart Smiley didn't get the call so he died tragically on 9/11, which is why you never see him around anymore.
    , @SFG
    It was probably a joke. He is a comedian, after all.

    I actually thought Stuart Smalley was a pretty good sendup of therapy culture. If you lived in New York in the 80s and 90s, you heard that stuff all the time.
    , @Mr. Anon
    "...........speaking of foreknowledge of the attacks, did you know Al Franken wrote in his book that he was warned not to go to work at the WTC that day?"

    It was a joke. He often used to make them - he was a comedian.
    , @This Is Our Home
    Um...he was joking. He called it 'the Jew call.' I Googled it and lots of site are holding it up as proof of something nefarious. Lots of sites are clearly written by idiots.
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  193. tanabear says:
    @Seth
    Do you imagine that Mossad spies are so clumsily trained that they high-five each other and dance and smile in public when their mission comes off?

    You ask why they were happy. Who knows? Maybe they were just jerks.

    Well, a few of them were members of the Mossad and they were dancing, smiling and having a gay ole time. So you seem to have trouble accepting reality. It isn’t important if they were well-trained. It is only important that the American media is.

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  194. SPMoore8 says:
    @D. K.
    Yeah, you people sure can pick your victims, martyrs and heroes, Zippi:

    http://www.vdare.com/posts/look-how-the-minneapolis-star-tribune-describes-a-black-mob-attack-on-white-protesters-five-people-shot-near-black-lives-matter-protest-in-minneapolis

    Based on my personal knowledge of the Occupy movement, I would bet (a) that this had nothing to do with race, (b) it was a drug deal gone bad.

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  195. tanabear says:
    @Anonymous
    They were filming the attack. The were apprehended for 40+ days and failed lie detector tests.

    One of them inadvertently admitted on live Israeli TV they were there to 'document the event'

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tRfhUezbKLw

    There are a lot of things that were reported on at the time of the attack that were simply never followed up on. Here is Fox news footage from 2001, alleging that Israel knew what was going to happen.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LbkQddEDPs0


    Any way you slice it, Israel is rotten in it's dealings with the US. There is no way they should be considered an 'ally' and the fact that they receive aid from the American taxpayer is an outrage.

    America is an ally of Israel, but Israel is not an ally of the Unites States. That is how the relationship works.

    Yes, Carl Cameron and Fox News did some good initial reporting on this issue, but then they went quiet. I wonder what could have happened? Fox News also removed their report from their website on the Israel art student spy ring after only two days. They never said the information was wrong or inaccurate. Fox News: Fair, balanced, and unafraid….except of the Israeli Lobby.

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  196. @Rurik

    The implication in several of the posts here is that very low level assets (the moving company illegals) would have had knowledge of a Mossad plot on 9/11. That is absurd.
     
    speaking of foreknowledge of the attacks, did you know Al Franken wrote in his book that he was warned not to go to work at the WTC that day?

    One of the widely disseminated stories was that no Jews died in the collapse of the Trade Towers because they had received calls telling them not to go to work that day. To tell you the truth, I got the Jew call. I had an office in the Trade Center where I used to do most of my writing. The call came from former New York mayor Ed Koch. “Al,” he told me, “don’t go to work on the twenty-third day of Elul [September 11 – ed].”

    just Google it

    isn't that a curious phenomena? First that it was widely enough known that people were warning (certain) other people about it, and then that he'd write such a thing in a book!

    But Stuart Smiley didn’t get the call so he died tragically on 9/11, which is why you never see him around anymore.

    Read More
    • Replies: @James Kabala
    Unfunny comedians deserve to be taken literally.
    , @Rurik
    Osama wins another one

    I had to take a look

    it's not Smiley, it's Smalley

    https://skinnybymonday.files.wordpress.com/2012/08/stuart-smalley.jpg

    as in 'small'..

    ; )
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  197. Dahlia says:
    @Steve Sailer
    There are a whole bunch of websites run by Jews that evaluate how Jewish various celebrities are. My impression is that gentiles have no clue how much mental energy Jews devote to such questions.

    Funniest example I’ve ever seen of this…

    Years ago, and I’m 95% sure it was John Podhoretz, was commenting at National Review’s blog. He had gotten excited about Ben Roethlisberger (pre-scandal), wondering if he was Jewish. Perhaps it was a Super Bowl, but lots of eyes were on him for some reason. So John googled it and posted what is the funniest bit of trolling I personally have ever come across…

    When you googled Ben Roethlisberger and Jewish, the first entry was an excited, eager, hyperventilating promised expose of whether Ben, indeed, was Jewish. When you clicked the link, you were brought to a single page with a single sentence in plain type at the very top of the page, just like what your opened desktop .txt file would look like:
    Sorry, Jews, he’s not one of yours.

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    • Replies: @SFG
    That is...more humor and distance than I would expect from J-Pod.
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  198. @Steve Sailer
    But Stuart Smiley didn't get the call so he died tragically on 9/11, which is why you never see him around anymore.

    Unfunny comedians deserve to be taken literally.

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  199. Rurik says:
    @Steve Sailer
    But Stuart Smiley didn't get the call so he died tragically on 9/11, which is why you never see him around anymore.

    Osama wins another one

    I had to take a look

    it’s not Smiley, it’s Smalley

    as in ‘small’..

    ; )

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    • Replies: @Truth

    it’s not Smiley, it’s Smalley
     
    Steve went to school in Houston.
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  200. Boomstick says:
    @WhatEvvs
    Sorry, OT. Read the comments. A corner has been turned.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/25/us/minneapolis-shooting-protest-police-jamar-clark.html?_r=0

    It's not every day that you get immediate, swift, fact-check their asses from the NY Times.

    NYT:

    On Monday night, community members asked the men what they were doing and asked them to remove their masks, she said, but they refused and were then escorted away.

    It’s not that hard to figure out what went on here. Citizens were filming something the #BLM didn’t want filmed, and #BLM goons attempted to run them off with physical violence. (“refused and were then escorted away.”) Things got dodgy and the people being “escorted” pulled their pieces, perhaps justifiably and perhaps not.

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  201. Some had speculated that FDR had intelligence warning about the imminent attack in Pearl Harbor, but chose to do nothing in order to motivate an isolationist public to join the charge into war.

    I am still constantly hearing about ridiculous conspiracy theories that those attacks in 2001 were an inside job false flag operation. In this case the theories are absurd because the US has never needed such an extreme casus belli to go to war. Some other trumped up incident would have been sufficient to mobilize the public and the troops. It’s not that I don’t believe in conspiracies by the powerful. Rather I’m convinced that many conspiracies are so effective and remain secret that the public would never imagine or suspect what happened. The more ridiculous stories keep the usual suspects distracted from investigating the real ones and undermine any of their credibility if they ever do stumble upon anything real. In this case, what if it wasn’t exactly an inside job but rather that the Israelis had reliable intelligence about the likelihood of that attack but chose not to pursue the leads very diligently or aggressively?

    Read More
    • Replies: @tbraton
    But then there is the very disturbing fact that, in addition to the Twin Towers, which were hit by the two airliners, World Trade Center Building #7, which was definitely not hit by any airliner, completely collapsed in nearly identical fashion as the Twin Towers. I'm generally not one who subscribes to conspiracy theories, but, when faced with such disturbing, inexplicable facts, one has to conclude that we don't have the entire story.
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  202. @Svigor
    Heard on NPR today (paraphrasing): "Muslims are the main victims of ISIS, they're the main group battling ISIS, and now they're the people being blamed for ISIS."

    Yeah, well, that's because ISIS is Muslim, you jackasses. Perhaps more to the point, the people victimized by ISIS and the people fighting ISIS are far less Muslim than ISIS is. These people have their (stupid) rhetoric well-honed from the better part of a century spent whitewashing blacks.

    “the ADL concluded there were no celebrations of any kind — none — in Paterson or any where else in New Jersey.”
     
    Well, I guess that makes everything all white then, doesn't it?

    The implication in several of the posts here is that very low level assets (the moving company illegals) would have had knowledge of a Mossad plot on 9/11. That is absurd.
     
    Dunno. Take it up with the people who made those posts. The fact I am stating is that there was speculation in the wake of 9/11 that the Mossad agents were tracking terrorists in America and knew attacks were imminent.

    Or maybe I am a secret Mossad Elks Club Masonic Temple Super “Shabbo Goy” – as someone here so eloquently put it.
     
    The famous Jewish comedic genius is on display, I suppose.

    Yes, you supposed right on that one point. On all the rest you supposed wrong.

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  203. Bugg says:
    @greysquirrell
    PrisonPlanet is not a decent source, because while it occassionally may have some worthy news , it is too often neck deep in unsutantiated conspiracy news.

    The problem in believeing the story you quote is that there is no way the planners of 9-11 would have told or discussed their plans in a manner that some highschool kids could overhear and then babble about it.

    Unless I can see some mainstream news sites report on the same claim , I'm chalking it up to propaghanda. The article reporting the kids were Palestinian also arouses my suspicion. None of the 9-11 Hijackers were Palestinian, so it wouldn't be like their unlces or older brothers or dads were discussing it and these kids overheard it.

    I recall seeing the New Utrecht High School Palestinian kid being part of a documentary on PBS or History or some other cable channel. Made a few attempts to search for it, but admittedly nothing comes up now. You can note that several of the 9/11 hijackers did live in apartments in Brooklyn and New Jersey in the years prior to 9/11, attended mosques in NYC (specifically one on 3rd Avenue and one on Bedford Avenue in Brooklyn) and probably had some contacts with people they knew from their time there, and perhaps spoke to their old friends in the run-up to that day.Grant you that sounds like speculation, if logical.

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  204. donut says:
    @This Is Our Home
    If you broke the law, just tell the truth.

    Not if you weren’t convicted .

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  205. tanabear says:
    @Steve Sailer
    "they had a video camera set up to watch the first plane hit the tower"

    Do we know that? From what? This ABC News story begins with eyewitness Maria's account, who didn't start looking until after the first tower was hit. After a while she noticed the Israelis.

    Steve: “Do we know that? From what?”

    They started filming and photographing themselves right after the first plane hit the North Tower. At that point how did they know it was a terrorist attack? Most of the assumptions were that it was some kind of horrible accident. It wasn’t until the second plane hit the South Tower that everyone became aware of a coordinated attack. So why so giddy over a random plane flying into a building? Also I wonder why we have never seen any of these photographs? Rhetorical question.

    Also from the FBI report: “‘A former Urban Moving Systems employee later contacted the Newark Division with information indicating that he had quit his employment with Urban Moving Systems due to high amount of anti-American sentiment present among Urban’s employees. The former employee stated that an Israeli employee of Urban had even once remarked, ‘Give us twenty (20) years and we’ll take over your media and destroy your country.’”

    p.s. And these are our allies.

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  206. SFG says:
    @el topo
    This is true. As a partial Jew, I have always been fascinated with the question of Jewishness and am able to view it from different angles, as it were. I also have an extremely keen Jewdar and am able to spot Jews and mischlings quite accurately.
    I have friends who are full Jews, however, who seem not at all interested in their Jewishness and completely downplay its significance, though they have many obviously Jewish traits (and typical liberal Jewish politics).

    Funny. I guess I could say the same. How many Mischlingen who have gotten skeptical of the tribe are there here? I thought I was the only one, but it seems fairly common at the fringes of the alt-right.

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  207. SFG says:
    @Dahlia
    Funniest example I've ever seen of this...

    Years ago, and I'm 95% sure it was John Podhoretz, was commenting at National Review's blog. He had gotten excited about Ben Roethlisberger (pre-scandal), wondering if he was Jewish. Perhaps it was a Super Bowl, but lots of eyes were on him for some reason. So John googled it and posted what is the funniest bit of trolling I personally have ever come across...

    When you googled Ben Roethlisberger and Jewish, the first entry was an excited, eager, hyperventilating promised expose of whether Ben, indeed, was Jewish. When you clicked the link, you were brought to a single page with a single sentence in plain type at the very top of the page, just like what your opened desktop .txt file would look like:
    Sorry, Jews, he's not one of yours.

    That is…more humor and distance than I would expect from J-Pod.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Charles Erwin Wilson
    Though he should be J-Ackass instead of J-Pod. His brays are pure and unmixed moonbattery.

    I would like to think he could be dissuaded from his stupidity. Reason and experience argue forcefully against that outcome.
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  208. SFG says:
    @Rurik

    The implication in several of the posts here is that very low level assets (the moving company illegals) would have had knowledge of a Mossad plot on 9/11. That is absurd.
     
    speaking of foreknowledge of the attacks, did you know Al Franken wrote in his book that he was warned not to go to work at the WTC that day?

    One of the widely disseminated stories was that no Jews died in the collapse of the Trade Towers because they had received calls telling them not to go to work that day. To tell you the truth, I got the Jew call. I had an office in the Trade Center where I used to do most of my writing. The call came from former New York mayor Ed Koch. “Al,” he told me, “don’t go to work on the twenty-third day of Elul [September 11 – ed].”

    just Google it

    isn't that a curious phenomena? First that it was widely enough known that people were warning (certain) other people about it, and then that he'd write such a thing in a book!

    It was probably a joke. He is a comedian, after all.

    I actually thought Stuart Smalley was a pretty good sendup of therapy culture. If you lived in New York in the 80s and 90s, you heard that stuff all the time.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    The one where Stuart Smalley therapizes Michael Jordan is pretty funny. "I know what you are thinking: all the other players are better than me, I can't make a shot, I'm just no good. But, you've got to tell yourself: darn it, I'm pretty good and people like me!"
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  209. SFG says:
    @SPMoore8
    German Burger King franchise Do they serve their Whoppers on Kaiser rolls?

    Nein, but all ze burger patties are exactly 1 kg, nicht wahr?

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    • Agree: Spmoore8
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  210. @SFG
    It was probably a joke. He is a comedian, after all.

    I actually thought Stuart Smalley was a pretty good sendup of therapy culture. If you lived in New York in the 80s and 90s, you heard that stuff all the time.

    The one where Stuart Smalley therapizes Michael Jordan is pretty funny. “I know what you are thinking: all the other players are better than me, I can’t make a shot, I’m just no good. But, you’ve got to tell yourself: darn it, I’m pretty good and people like me!”

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  211. shk12344 says:
    @jtgw
    Israel seems to work on trust in many ways. E.g. how exactly do they verify your Jewishness when you apply for citizenship there? It would seem to be something easy to fake, and yet Israel is pretty good at keeping itself Jewish.

    Israel can always do a DNA test for Jewish ancestry.

    Russian-speakers who want to make aliya could need DNA test

    http://www.timesofisrael.com/russian-speakers-who-want-to-immigrate-could-need-dna-test/

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  212. donut says:
    @Svigor
    Take that! Obama: Climate summit a ‘powerful rebuke’ to terrorists

    President Obama declared Tuesday that next week’s climate change summit in Paris would be a “powerful rebuke” to terrorists
     
    What a maroon.

    Did he specify which terrorists he means ?

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  213. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer

    I can’t believe there are so many questions surrounding 9/11 and Israeli involvement, and nobody in power seems the least bit interested in getting to the bottom of it.

    It’s truly a mystery.

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    • Replies: @tanabear
    Anonymous: "It’s truly a mystery."

    I know, shocking isn't it? Who would have thought that people in power care more about power than the truth?
    , @ben tillman

    I can’t believe there are so many questions surrounding 9/11 and Israeli involvement, and nobody in power seems the least bit interested in getting to the bottom of it.

    It’s truly a mystery.
     
    The PNACkers were the prime suspects, and their network extended into the government, so it's natural to suspect some government involvement, especially in view of otherwise hard-to-explain facts like the failure of the military to intercept the hijacked planes and the government's decision to destroy the crime scene so quickly.
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  214. @Wilkey
    "But Gordon insisted that his clients were just five young men who had come to America for a vacation, ended up working for a moving company."

    Because who doesn't eventually end up working for a Jersey moving company when they're on vacation? I still regale friends and family members with stories of the time I visited London and spent the entire three weeks working 14 hour a day shifts frying chicken at KFC Halal. Even more memorable was that trip to Thailand back in middle school, where I spent a week turning tricks for a local pimp, Prayut. He and I are still penpals, exchanging Christmas cards, Hanukkah presents, homemade porn, and updates on our latest T cell counts. Good times...

    LOL! Absolutely hilarious.

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  215. @Anonymous Nephew
    OT - Sweden chucks the towel in.

    http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/nov/24/sweden-asylum-seekers-refugees-policy-reversal

    "Sweden needs “respite” from the tens of thousands of refugees knocking at its door, the government has said, announcing tough measures to deter asylum seekers in a sharp reversal of its open-door policy towards people fleeing war and persecution.
    The country’s generous asylum regime would revert to the “EU minimum”, Sweden’s prime minister, Stefan Löfven, said on Tuesday, revealing that most refugees would receive only temporary residence permits from April.
    Identity checks would be imposed on all modes of transport, and the right to bring families to Sweden would be severely restricted, he said."

    The Greens’ deputy prime minister, Åsa Romson, broke into tears as she announced the measures.

    Thanks, I’ll post.

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  216. @SFG
    That is...more humor and distance than I would expect from J-Pod.

    Though he should be J-Ackass instead of J-Pod. His brays are pure and unmixed moonbattery.

    I would like to think he could be dissuaded from his stupidity. Reason and experience argue forcefully against that outcome.

    Read More
    • Replies: @TWS
    Pod the Lesser.
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  217. Ron Unz says:
    @Boomstick
    There were two men found with one Glock 9mm inside the Mexican parliament building. The only mentions of explosives I can find are on crazed conspiracy sites.

    http://archivo.eluniversal.com.mx/nacion/68324.html

    The man had a license to carry a concealed weapon and was a security guard. It's easy to forget you're wearing a pistol and accidentally go into restricted areas.

    There were two men found with one Glock 9mm inside the Mexican parliament building. The only mentions of explosives I can find are on crazed conspiracy sites.

    No, I don’t think that’s correct. The story was naturally huge in Mexico at the time and when I looked into the matter maybe a decade ago, at least some of the local newspaper accounts mentioned that the Israeli military guy had been caught carrying explosive devices into the Mexican parliament building, which is hardly the sort of detail I’d easily forget.

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    • Replies: @AnonymousCoward
    You can also find the archived version of the official, Mexican govt. site confirming the explosives.

    https://wikispooks.com/wiki/2001_Mexican_legislative_assembly_attack
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  218. tanabear says:
    @Anonymous
    I can't believe there are so many questions surrounding 9/11 and Israeli involvement, and nobody in power seems the least bit interested in getting to the bottom of it.

    It's truly a mystery.

    Anonymous: “It’s truly a mystery.”

    I know, shocking isn’t it? Who would have thought that people in power care more about power than the truth?

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  219. Mr. Anon says:
    @Rurik

    The implication in several of the posts here is that very low level assets (the moving company illegals) would have had knowledge of a Mossad plot on 9/11. That is absurd.
     
    speaking of foreknowledge of the attacks, did you know Al Franken wrote in his book that he was warned not to go to work at the WTC that day?

    One of the widely disseminated stories was that no Jews died in the collapse of the Trade Towers because they had received calls telling them not to go to work that day. To tell you the truth, I got the Jew call. I had an office in the Trade Center where I used to do most of my writing. The call came from former New York mayor Ed Koch. “Al,” he told me, “don’t go to work on the twenty-third day of Elul [September 11 – ed].”

    just Google it

    isn't that a curious phenomena? First that it was widely enough known that people were warning (certain) other people about it, and then that he'd write such a thing in a book!

    “………..speaking of foreknowledge of the attacks, did you know Al Franken wrote in his book that he was warned not to go to work at the WTC that day?”

    It was a joke. He often used to make them – he was a comedian.

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  220. Mr. Anon says:
    @Rurik
    I tried Steve..

    seems to be 'memory holed', but if that one detail would make a difference to the narrative for you, I'll still find what I can.

    I notice you didn't consider my little blurt about how George Bush said publically (and on camera) that he saw the first plane hit WTC tower- curious. Did you know that? Does it matter to your mind if he said it or even if he did see it?

    I don't know where you stand on the whole 911 thing. A lot of people consider it prudent to not care too much. Perhaps it is.

    On a semi-related note Carl Cameron of Fox News did a story on Israeli "art student' spies rounded up after 911

    'evidence linking these Israelis to 9-11 is classified. I cannot tell you about evidence that has been gathered. It's classified information.'


    http://www.salon.com/2002/05/07/students/

    http://www.antiwar.com/justin/j030802.html

    “I notice you didn’t consider my little blurt about how George Bush said publically (and on camera) that he saw the first plane hit WTC tower- curious. Did you know that? Does it matter to your mind if he said it or even if he did see it?”

    And what is so odd about that?

    “I don’t know where you stand on the whole 911 thing. A lot of people consider it prudent to not care too much. Perhaps it is. ”

    A lot of people consider it prudent not to indulge in the kind of insanity that has largely come to characterizes the “Truther” movement.

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    • Replies: @Rurik


    George Bush said publically (and on camera) that he saw the first plane hit WTC tower- curious. Did you know that? Does it matter to your mind if he said it or even if he did see it?”
     
    And what is so odd about that?

     

    first plane

    let that sink in for a minute

    ok

    here, let me help

    here's the video

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eyi33ftRUZY

    you can find it all over the Internet if you look, (or cared)

    but for people with a functioning brain, for George Bush to have seen the FIRST plane hit the tower, which he clearly did from what he says, then that means that he was watching a live video feed of the "terrorist" attacks on that day. Someone had a camera set up and Bush happened to be watching before he went into that classroom.

    the kind of insanity that has largely come to characterizes the “Truther” movement.
     
    insanity indeed

    it literally is a kind of insanity to watch building seven implode and tell yourself that is was office fires that did it

    or to see president George Bush talking about watching the FIRST plane hit the tower and consider it of no consequence

    rather I wouldn't so much put it down to insanity as I would intellectual and moral cowardice

    ; )
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  221. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer

    Now that we have rediscovered that is was Israelis dancing in New Jersey, the story will plunge right back down the memory hole.

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  222. Truth says:
    @AnotherDad
    Truth, believe it or not, white people have rights to.

    BLM is protesting--the death of a serial criminal and girlfriend beater--on public property. Despite some BLM flack talking about "people who did not belong there", white anti-pro-thuggery protesters *also* have the right to be there and protest the protesters.

    Unfortunately, most blacks (like a lot of leftists) can not fathom the concept of people being allow to disagree with them, so unsurprisingly BLM types try and chase these counter protesters off. And indeed apparently had them on the run.

    Wasn't there, but i'll say, i'd rather shoot than let a black mob (even a mob of two or three) catch me. Blacks readily assault whites (and each other). Once down they'll kick and stomp you. You're lucky if you don't end up with serious injury, or being a vegetable, or dead.

    George Zimmerman would quite likely be a vegetable in some hospital if he hadn't been packing when attacked by the thug Trayvon Martin, who was witnessed raining down blows "MMA sytle" and smacking Zimmerman's head into the sidewalk.

    Here, we had this kid Kris Kime at Mardi Gras about 15 years back, who went to the assistance of a girl some black thugs were assaulting and had knocked down. For his trouble, some black thug whacked him on the head, knocking him down where upon a bunch of black thugs started kicking the crap outta him ... while Seattle police--obeying the PC orders of their leftist political bosses--just stood around the sidelines watching.

    Whites who are going to be around blacks are smart to be armed. Especially if you're in a "progressive" jurisdiction where PC is turning the police into useless timeservers while feral blacks run free. And if attacked they *should* fire. Hey, the state will no doubt try to railroad you--like they tried with Zimmerman. But better to end up in prison, then beaten and stomped dead like Kris Kime.

    ~~~
    Truth, i know you have a different take on the capabilities and behavior of your people. And that's fine.

    The simple approach that works for your folks and my folks--separation. Your people run your affairs--have the level of policing and tolerate the level of violence that your people desire. And my people run our affairs and have the level of policing and intolerance for thuggery and violence that we find allows for civilized life. Win-win.

    The simple approach that works for your folks and my folks–separation. Your people run your affairs–have the level of policing and tolerate the level of violence that your people desire.

    Cool, what states are you giving us? I like California.

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    • Replies: @ATate
    Your folks can't even hold Compton for Christ's sake. What makes you think a bunch of Lavarias's and Latavia's can hold Venice or Carlsbad from the Brown Horde?

    Let alone the entire state.
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  223. Mr. Anon says:
    @Svigor

    I once considered working for FBI or CIA. I got application packages from each. I had familial connection to CIA, but no relationship to FBI. The FBI package was at least 50 pages and required exhaustive detail including all schools attended and dates of attendance along with grades (do you have your third grade report cards?). They demanded all family connections to second cousin along with detail like date of birth and photos. It was, putting it mildly, incredibly over the top.
     
    Ever watched The Americans? That's why it was so "over the top"; they wanted to make sure you were born and raised here, and not living a cover story.

    Just guessing, but, the CIA, on the other hand, probably just had a different process; if they decided to hire you (probably a lot less likely than the FBI hiring you), they would then put you through the wringer.

    A disgruntled MOSSAD officer wrote an expose´ (“By Way of Deception”) that detailed how MOSSAD is small and poor, but punches above its weight by employing Jews to spy in their local countries and use their businesses to pay for it all. Sort of like how Pollard suddenly got employed on Wall Street or something. The actual professional case officers are very few in number, but who needs them when high-status Jews throughout the world will hook you up with either information or influence.
     
    IIRC, the word for these Jews is "sayanim."

    “Ever watched The Americans? That’s why it was so “over the top”; they wanted to make sure you were born and raised here, and not living a cover story.”

    The worst ever FBI mole, Robert Hanssen, was born and raised in America.

    I saw a couple episodes of “The Americans”. It seemed ridiculous. I think it unlikely that it’s a realistic portrayal of espionage (for example, I imagine that murdering a defector in your own garage is not a very smart thing for a deep-cover agent to do). Yeah, the show has some former spooks as technical advisors. Technical advisors often just get ignored by writers, directors, and producers.

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  224. Mr. Anon says:
    @Svigor

    Even if the Israelis knew ahead of time, why would they send people in the field who knew ahead of time, and put them in a position to be arrested and questioned by the FBI?
     
    The way I always heard it (i.e., the speculation), they were tracking Muslim terrorists in the US and knew there would or might be an attack, which would make your question kind of nonsensical; not as if they'd just disappear into thin air the moment they were forewarned.

    Even if they didn’t know an attack would or might happen, they still would have filmed it. Wouldn’t anyone? If they were engaged in surveilance they would have had video-cameras, and most people who had video-cameras on that that day, who weren’t in immediate danger, filmed what they could of the attacks.

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  225. @Richard S
    Something like "Guy-uz Yule-lee-uz Kae-sar"; but then technically he was never emperor :)

    Something like “Guy-uz Yule-lee-uz Kae-sar”

    Kie-sar. First syllable is just like the first syllable of the German “Kaiser”.

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  226. Arturo says: • Website

    I’m really surprised no one has mentioned the E-Team Israeli art students who installed a balcony on the 91st floor of the WTC in March 2001.

    This shenanigans was reported on in the NYT.

    For more info go to COTT.

    Terrifying pictures of a lot of weird stuff going on at the WTC in the months before those “dancing moslems.”

    Sincerely,

    - Arturo

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  227. Truth says:
    @Rurik
    Osama wins another one

    I had to take a look

    it's not Smiley, it's Smalley

    https://skinnybymonday.files.wordpress.com/2012/08/stuart-smalley.jpg

    as in 'small'..

    ; )

    it’s not Smiley, it’s Smalley

    Steve went to school in Houston.

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  228. @Anonymous
    I can't believe there are so many questions surrounding 9/11 and Israeli involvement, and nobody in power seems the least bit interested in getting to the bottom of it.

    It's truly a mystery.

    I can’t believe there are so many questions surrounding 9/11 and Israeli involvement, and nobody in power seems the least bit interested in getting to the bottom of it.

    It’s truly a mystery.

    The PNACkers were the prime suspects, and their network extended into the government, so it’s natural to suspect some government involvement, especially in view of otherwise hard-to-explain facts like the failure of the military to intercept the hijacked planes and the government’s decision to destroy the crime scene so quickly.

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    • Replies: @Mr. Anon
    "The PNACkers were the prime suspects, and their network extended into the government, so it’s natural to suspect some government involvement, especially in view of otherwise hard-to-explain facts like the failure of the military to intercept the hijacked planes and the government’s decision to destroy the crime scene so quickly."

    The government did not destroy the crime scene. They hauled the debris somewhere else. They do the same thing with every single airplane crash.

    And I have never understood the fixation on the fact that the government didn't shoot down the planes. It was an extraordinary event. And no matter what people - even military people do - in wargaming and exercises and the like - people don't really expect things like that to happen. If Air Force pilots had robot-like followed orders to shoot down planes full of innocent people............would that make you feel better? Would it make you feel better about the US military and government if they were quick to issue and follow orders like that?
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  229. @Ron Unz

    There were two men found with one Glock 9mm inside the Mexican parliament building. The only mentions of explosives I can find are on crazed conspiracy sites.
     
    No, I don't think that's correct. The story was naturally huge in Mexico at the time and when I looked into the matter maybe a decade ago, at least some of the local newspaper accounts mentioned that the Israeli military guy had been caught carrying explosive devices into the Mexican parliament building, which is hardly the sort of detail I'd easily forget.

    You can also find the archived version of the official, Mexican govt. site confirming the explosives.

    https://wikispooks.com/wiki/2001_Mexican_legislative_assembly_attack

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    • Replies: @Ron Unz

    You can also find the archived version of the official, Mexican govt. site confirming the explosives.
     
    Excellent. It's always nice to confirm that my memory wasn't playing tricks on me after so many years.
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  230. @WhatEvvs
    OT, the front page of the NYT has the shooting of 5 people at a Black Lives Matter rally. No word on the 16 shot at the hippity hop party in New Orleans.

    Counter protest at BLM protest. BLM’ers chase away counter protesters and pursue them down the street. Then pursuing party gets shot at.

    5 People Shot Near BLM Protest

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    • Replies: @WhatEvvs
    &@boomstick,

    Meanwhile, the original focus of the protest, Jamar Clark or some other such stupid name, beat his girlfriend so badly she needed surgery. I learned that from a random comment. No word on her from The NY Times.
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  231. Boomstick says:

    If you trace the web reports that mention explosives back far enough they usually go to a single source.

    Google translation from El Universal:

    The security guard Guersson Smeke Salvador, arrested two days inside the Chamber of Deputies with the former Israeli military course Sauar Ben Zvi has a license to carry a 9mm weapon. issued by the Secretariat of National Defense (SDN), effective December 31 this year.
    This is an “individual” license filed before the SDN earlier this year and issued by the agency earlier this year. Sources at the Attorney General’s Office noted that Guersson Salvador is the only of the two detainees who are duly registered with the Ministry of Public Security.
    “But the other person, who was not armed, we have no clear data and we are still investigating,” they said.

    No explosives. A single security guard with one Glock.

    In the jumpy days after 9/11 there were all sorts of bogus reports.

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  232. @Drakejax
    A disgruntled MOSSAD officer wrote an expose´ ("By Way of Deception") that detailed how MOSSAD is small and poor, but punches above its weight by employing Jews to spy in their local countries and use their businesses to pay for it all. Sort of like how Pollard suddenly got employed on Wall Street or something. The actual professional case officers are very few in number, but who needs them when high-status Jews throughout the world will hook you up with either information or influence.

    Many intelligence agencies do the same thing. If you’re in a technical field of interest to the US IC and a ‘reliable’ US citizen, you may be approached and interviewed, either before and/or after you’ve attended any sort of foreign technical events (symposiums, conferences, etc etc) or simply involved in routine foreign business.

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  233. This Is Our Home [AKA "Robert Rediger"] says:
    @Big Bill
    The recruiting is pretty simple. An Israeli agent goes on tour of the USA speaking at synagogues around the country on some innocuous subject.

    The rabbi who coordinates each whistlestop identifies likely helpers in the congregation who would be amenable to helping out.

    When the agent arrives in town, he speaks to each potential recruit privately and feels them out to see if they are willing to help. Perhaps they could provide a cover job for an Israeli agent. Maybe supply the Mossad with letterhead or business cards to provide cover. Or agree to be a mail drop, receiving mail and setting it aside for someone to pick up later.

    Not every Jew will agree to help, of course. But the nice thing--the thing that makes such low-key recruiting quite safe--is that no Jew would ever rat out a fellow Jew, even if he turns down the request and declines to assist the Mossad.

    This safety is enhanced by Jewish religious law. Being a "moser" (one who rats out a fellow Jew to gentiles) is a death penalty offense.

    Google "mosrim death penalty".

    The same ethnic/racial solidarity also works for Muslim jihadis. This is why even "moderate" Muslims are an existential threat to the West. They can be counted on to look the other way and say nothing, particularly in Muslim ghettos like Molenbeek and Malmo.

    Mao got it right with his dictum about revolutionaries swimming through the local population like fish in the sea.

    This safety is enhanced by Jewish religious law. Being a “moser” (one who rats out a fellow Jew to gentiles) is a death penalty offense.

    I must have missed all those beheadings those damn Jews have done for ‘mosing.’

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  234. @cwhatfuture
    Why would Israelis use illegals working as movers to record such an event and celebrate it publicly? Because according to the sleuths on this board, not only are the Israeli intelligence agencies dumb, they verge on the retarded.

    You want a realistic depiction of the IC? Watch the movie “Spies Like Us” and “Office Space.”

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    • Agree: Travis
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  235. This Is Our Home [AKA "Robert Rediger"] says:
    @Rurik

    The implication in several of the posts here is that very low level assets (the moving company illegals) would have had knowledge of a Mossad plot on 9/11. That is absurd.
     
    speaking of foreknowledge of the attacks, did you know Al Franken wrote in his book that he was warned not to go to work at the WTC that day?

    One of the widely disseminated stories was that no Jews died in the collapse of the Trade Towers because they had received calls telling them not to go to work that day. To tell you the truth, I got the Jew call. I had an office in the Trade Center where I used to do most of my writing. The call came from former New York mayor Ed Koch. “Al,” he told me, “don’t go to work on the twenty-third day of Elul [September 11 – ed].”

    just Google it

    isn't that a curious phenomena? First that it was widely enough known that people were warning (certain) other people about it, and then that he'd write such a thing in a book!

    Um…he was joking. He called it ‘the Jew call.’ I Googled it and lots of site are holding it up as proof of something nefarious. Lots of sites are clearly written by idiots.

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    • Replies: @AnonymousCoward
    Yes, read the surrounding context in his book, it's an obvious joke.

    Also, after you read and confirm this, make sure to come back here and retract your mistake, so that no other researchers are suckered into embarrassing themselves.
    , @D. K.
    Yes, but to the best of my knowledge, the suspicious warning to Odigo employees, which I posted a link about, above, has never been explained, let alone explained away...!?!

    Here is that link, again, to a news story, from Israel itself, published fifteen days after 9/11:

    http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/news/odigo-says-workers-were-warned-of-attack-1.70579
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  236. Are Israeli mafias really muling “club drugs” (as opposed to legal pharma which they’re quite involved in)? That sounds more like the type of thing those “Pain and Gain” meatheads in So. Florida specialized in. In fact it seems kinda like a not-worth-checking innuendo filler for an “e.g.” tidbit… They might swim in the same waters, sure. But the frankly bizarre conceit that cutthroat ex-Mossad gangsters are flooding the heartland with MDMA (depressed blue-collare whites have taken up raving with glow-sticks & pacifiers?) is either your Pulitzer in waiting or you just made it up.

    I’d also be open to the possibility that it comes from your own experience, in-between 3am blog posts hitting the EDM scene in warehouses off Lankershim Boulevard. After all there’s a lot we don’t know about you, and your lifestyle does seem a bit odd.

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    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    It was enough of a thing that there was a 2010 Jesse Eisenberg movie about it:

    "Holy Rollers is a 2010 independent film written by Antonio Macia, directed by Kevin Asch, and starring Jesse Eisenberg, Justin Bartha, Ari Graynor, Danny Abeckaser, Q-Tip and Jason Fuchs. Holy Rollers is inspired by actual events in the late nineties when Hasidic Jews were recruited as mules to smuggle ecstasy from Europe into the United States.[1]"

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holy_Rollers_(film)

    I don't know anything about drug trades, so I can't tell you if it's still true, but it was a thing about 15 years ago: Ecstasy was heavily an international Jewish business with a major Israeli connection, the way cocaine was a Colombian thing in 1980.

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  237. @Scotty G. Vito
    Are Israeli mafias really muling "club drugs" (as opposed to legal pharma which they're quite involved in)? That sounds more like the type of thing those "Pain and Gain" meatheads in So. Florida specialized in. In fact it seems kinda like a not-worth-checking innuendo filler for an "e.g." tidbit... They might swim in the same waters, sure. But the frankly bizarre conceit that cutthroat ex-Mossad gangsters are flooding the heartland with MDMA (depressed blue-collare whites have taken up raving with glow-sticks & pacifiers?) is either your Pulitzer in waiting or you just made it up.

    I'd also be open to the possibility that it comes from your own experience, in-between 3am blog posts hitting the EDM scene in warehouses off Lankershim Boulevard. After all there's a lot we don't know about you, and your lifestyle does seem a bit odd.

    It was enough of a thing that there was a 2010 Jesse Eisenberg movie about it:

    “Holy Rollers is a 2010 independent film written by Antonio Macia, directed by Kevin Asch, and starring Jesse Eisenberg, Justin Bartha, Ari Graynor, Danny Abeckaser, Q-Tip and Jason Fuchs. Holy Rollers is inspired by actual events in the late nineties when Hasidic Jews were recruited as mules to smuggle ecstasy from Europe into the United States.[1]”

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holy_Rollers_(film)

    I don’t know anything about drug trades, so I can’t tell you if it’s still true, but it was a thing about 15 years ago: Ecstasy was heavily an international Jewish business with a major Israeli connection, the way cocaine was a Colombian thing in 1980.

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  238. @This Is Our Home
    Um...he was joking. He called it 'the Jew call.' I Googled it and lots of site are holding it up as proof of something nefarious. Lots of sites are clearly written by idiots.

    Yes, read the surrounding context in his book, it’s an obvious joke.

    Also, after you read and confirm this, make sure to come back here and retract your mistake, so that no other researchers are suckered into embarrassing themselves.

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  239. D. K. says:
    @Truth


    it would be relatively simple to cherry pick stories about black assailants assaulting whites, amirite?
     
    From having been on this site for 9 years...I would concur.

    Since a particular demographic group (age x sex x race) comprising only about 2% of our resident population commits about half of all of the murders in the United States– year in and year out, decade after decade– no “cherry-picking” is necessary.

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  240. D. K. says:
    @This Is Our Home
    Um...he was joking. He called it 'the Jew call.' I Googled it and lots of site are holding it up as proof of something nefarious. Lots of sites are clearly written by idiots.

    Yes, but to the best of my knowledge, the suspicious warning to Odigo employees, which I posted a link about, above, has never been explained, let alone explained away…!?!

    Here is that link, again, to a news story, from Israel itself, published fifteen days after 9/11:

    http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/news/odigo-says-workers-were-warned-of-attack-1.70579

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    • Replies: @This Is Our Home
    Two Israel-based employees, in Israel(!), of a company which did not have an office in the towers received a message warning them of a terrorist attack on somewhere....that's not even a coincidence, it is entirely unrelated.

    http://www.911myths.com/index.php/Odigo
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  241. Arturo says: • Website

    Gentlemen :

    The coincidences just keep piling up.

    I am surprised no one has mentioned yet the “E-Team” :

    http://robscholtemuseum.nl/mark-dotzler-thoughts-on-the-wtc-artists/

    This was a group of Israeli Art students who were given exclusive access to seven critical stories of the WTC north tower to perform an “art installation” that consisted among other things of the giant office-window billboard spelling out “E TEAM”, and an actual balcony they installed for a few hours by removing a pane of glass.

    This is the real deal people, it’s getting hotter.

    Even the NYT wrote about the E-team and their 91st-floor balcony :

    http://www.nytimes.com/2001/08/18/nyregion/balcony-scene-unseen-atop-world-episode-trade-center-assumes-mythic-qualities.html?pagewanted=all&src=pm

    There’s a lot of Israeli art students and e-team (explosives team?) stuff on crimes of the times today.

    One thing that is absolutely freaking me out :

    The boxes and boxes and boxes of BB 18 on the 91st floor of the Israeli art students E-Team project.

    Prepare to get spooked :

    http://www.littelfuse.com/products/fuse-blocks-fuseholders-and-fuse-accessories/dead-front-fuse-holders/powr-busbar/bb18.aspx

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    • Replies: @Mr. Anon
    "This was a group of Israeli Art students who were given exclusive access to seven critical stories of the WTC north tower to perform an “art installation”..."

    They were not Israeli; they were Austrian.

    "The boxes and boxes and boxes of BB 18 on the 91st floor of the Israeli art students E-Team project.

    Prepare to get spooked :

    http://www.littelfuse.com/products/fuse-blocks-fuseholders-and-fuse-accessories/dead-front-fuse-holders/powr-busbar/bb18.aspx"

    Yeah - that's real spooky to anyone who thinks that electricity is magic. Those aren't bomb fuse holders (I don't think there even is such a thing) - they are electric fuse holders - common power distribution equipment, of the kind one might typically find in a power-panel in an office building. It is not surprising that there would be empty boxes for that stuff laying around.

    Everything is a mystery to the stupid.

    , @slumber_j
    The WTC was host to a number of artists over the years: the space there was always a hard sell, and there were therefore a lot of vacancies, so I imagine it was a tax dodge.

    One of a couple of examples I'm aware of was the tenancy of the preposterously named but magnificent painter Rackstraw Downes. Here's a painting of his of some raw interior space there:

    http://www.art21.org/images/rackstraw-downes/untenanted-space-in-the-world-trade-center-winter-sun-1998?slideshow=1
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  242. Ron Unz says:
    @AnonymousCoward
    You can also find the archived version of the official, Mexican govt. site confirming the explosives.

    https://wikispooks.com/wiki/2001_Mexican_legislative_assembly_attack

    You can also find the archived version of the official, Mexican govt. site confirming the explosives.

    Excellent. It’s always nice to confirm that my memory wasn’t playing tricks on me after so many years.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Bob who thinks Ron pats his own back to soon
    Ron

    I don't think the link AC provides is all he claims it to be. The web archive link refers to "a 9 mm caliber weapon". You value the Pravda link for what you think it is worth.

    Google translate of text from link:

    THE PGR INFORMS ABOUT SITUATION
    SUBJECT ARRESTED IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
     
    Regarding the situation of the 2 subjects detained last Wednesday near the Legislative Palace of San Lazaro, the Attorney General's Office reports that the Israeli citizen Saer Ben-Zvi and Saar Noam Ben Zvi was made available to the First Court of "A" Federal Criminal Proceedings in Mexico City, Distrito while the Mexican Salvador Gersson Smeck will release order issued stocks with the law, because no items were found for your consignment.

    Under that when he was arrested Gersson Smeck carrying a 9 mm caliber weapon, was released reserves of the law and gave sight to the Secretariat of National Defense regarding the permit to carry a firearm with that account.

    The Israeli Ben Zvi was admitted to the Men's Prison north slope that will resolve their legal status, as likely responsible for the commission of crimes of violation of the General Population Act, provided for and punished by Articles 123 and 143 General Population Act, all in connection with the 6th. And 7th., Section 1, 8. 9th and 13th, Fraction II of the Federal Penal Code, which start is given to the relevant criminal proceedings.
    , @Boomstick
    The Google translation of what is claimed to be the Mexican government account:

    "THE PGR INFORMS ABOUT THE SITUATION OF INDIVIDUALS ARRESTED IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
    Regarding the situation of the 2 subjects detained last Wednesday near the Legislative Palace of San Lazaro, the Attorney General's Office reports that the Israeli citizen Saer Ben-Zvi and Saar Noam Ben Zvi was made available to the First Court of "A" Federal Criminal Proceedings in Mexico City, Distrito while the Mexican Salvador Gersson Smeck will release order issued stocks with the law, because no items were found for your consignment.
    Under that when he was arrested Gersson Smeck carrying a 9 mm caliber weapon, was released reserves of the law and gave sight to the Secretariat of National Defense regarding the permit to carry a firearm with that account.
    The Israeli Ben Zvi was admitted to the Men's Prison north slope that will resolve their legal status, as likely responsible for the commission of crimes of violation of the General Population Act, provided for and punished by Articles 123 and 143 General Population Act, all in connection with the 6th. And 7th., Section 1, 8. 9th and 13th, Fraction II of the Federal Penal Code, which start is given to the relevant criminal proceedings. [1]"

    One guy licensed to carry a Glock, one guy arrested for immigration problems.
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  243. tbraton says:
    @Thin-Skinned Masta-Beta
    Some had speculated that FDR had intelligence warning about the imminent attack in Pearl Harbor, but chose to do nothing in order to motivate an isolationist public to join the charge into war.

    I am still constantly hearing about ridiculous conspiracy theories that those attacks in 2001 were an inside job false flag operation. In this case the theories are absurd because the US has never needed such an extreme casus belli to go to war. Some other trumped up incident would have been sufficient to mobilize the public and the troops. It's not that I don't believe in conspiracies by the powerful. Rather I'm convinced that many conspiracies are so effective and remain secret that the public would never imagine or suspect what happened. The more ridiculous stories keep the usual suspects distracted from investigating the real ones and undermine any of their credibility if they ever do stumble upon anything real. In this case, what if it wasn't exactly an inside job but rather that the Israelis had reliable intelligence about the likelihood of that attack but chose not to pursue the leads very diligently or aggressively?

    But then there is the very disturbing fact that, in addition to the Twin Towers, which were hit by the two airliners, World Trade Center Building #7, which was definitely not hit by any airliner, completely collapsed in nearly identical fashion as the Twin Towers. I’m generally not one who subscribes to conspiracy theories, but, when faced with such disturbing, inexplicable facts, one has to conclude that we don’t have the entire story.

    Read More
    • Replies: @This Is Our Home

    But then there is the very disturbing fact that, in addition to the Twin Towers, which were hit by the two airliners, World Trade Center Building #7, which was definitely not hit by any airliner, completely collapsed in nearly identical fashion as the Twin Towers. I’m generally not one who subscribes to conspiracy theories, but, when faced with such disturbing, inexplicable facts, one has to conclude that we don’t have the entire story.
     
    Have you ever looked this up to see how an expert would answer your query? It seems that they ahve put a lot of effort into it and are very well-informed of the technical details. Why would they lie?

    http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/design/a3524/4278874/
    , @Mr. Anon
    "But then there is the very disturbing fact that, in addition to the Twin Towers, which were hit by the two airliners, World Trade Center Building #7, which was definitely not hit by any airliner."

    Do you know anything - anything at all - about WTC 7 other than what you saw on a grainy YouTube video? And if it was all part of some vast conspiracy, why didn't the conspirators fly a plane into WTC 7, to complete the illusion? They forgot? Oops.........We wanted to engineer the destruction of these three buildings and make people believe that it was due to airplanes, but we forgot to fly an airplane into one of them.
    , @tanabear
    tbraton: "World Trade Center Building #7, which was definitely not hit by any airliner, completely collapsed in nearly identical fashion as the Twin Towers..."

    It wasn't entirely identical. The North and South towers were destroyed top-down. Word Trade Tower 7 was more of a conventional looking demolition; but still a masterpiece of demolition science.

    The phrase "conspiracy theory" is just used as an ad hominem. What explanation best fits the available evidence? It certainly isn't the official account.
    , @Mr. Anon
    "But then there is the very disturbing fact that, in addition to the Twin Towers, which were hit by the two airliners, World Trade Center Building #7, which was definitely not hit by any airliner, completely collapsed in nearly identical fashion as the Twin Towers."

    WTC was directly adjacent to the collapsing WTC 1; it was hosed down by debris. It also burned for the better part of the day, and not little fires either. Take a look at these pictures, which the "Truther" crowd never talks about., as they do not fit their narrative.

    WTC 7 Fires
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  244. This Is Our Home [AKA "Robert Rediger"] says:
    @D. K.
    Yes, but to the best of my knowledge, the suspicious warning to Odigo employees, which I posted a link about, above, has never been explained, let alone explained away...!?!

    Here is that link, again, to a news story, from Israel itself, published fifteen days after 9/11:

    http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/news/odigo-says-workers-were-warned-of-attack-1.70579

    Two Israel-based employees, in Israel(!), of a company which did not have an office in the towers received a message warning them of a terrorist attack on somewhere….that’s not even a coincidence, it is entirely unrelated.

    http://www.911myths.com/index.php/Odigo

    Read More
    • Replies: @D. K.
    This, below, is the entire Ha'aretz article, copy and pasted directly from its own Web site:

    ***

    Odigo, the instant messaging service, says that two of its workers received messages two hours before the Twin Towers attack on September 11 predicting the attack would happen, and the company has been cooperating with Israeli and American law enforcement, including the FBI, in trying to find the original sender of the message predicting the attack.

    Yuval Dror 26.09.2001 00:00 Updated: 12:43 AM

    Odigo, the instant messaging service, says that two of its workers received messages two hours before the Twin Towers attack on September 11 predicting the attack would happen, and the company has been cooperating with Israeli and American law enforcement, including the FBI, in trying to find the original sender of the message predicting the attack.

    Micha Macover, CEO of the company, said the two workers received the messages and immediately after the terror attack informed the company's management, which immediately contacted the Israeli security services, which brought in the FBI.

    "I have no idea why the message was sent to these two workers, who don't know the sender. It may just have been someone who was joking and turned out they accidentally got it right. And I don't know if our information was useful in any of the arrests the FBI has made," said Macover. Odigo is a U.S.-based company whose headquarters are in New York, with offices in Herzliya.

    As an instant messaging service, Odigo users are not limited to sending messages only to people on their "buddy" list, as is the case with ICQ, the other well-known Israeli instant messaging application.

    Odigo usually zealously protects the privacy of its registered users, said Macover, but in this case the company took the initiative to provide the law enforcement services with the originating Internet Presence address of the message, so the FBI could track down the Internet Service Provider, and the actual sender of the original message.

    http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/news/odigo-says-workers-were-warned-of-attack-1.70579

    ***

    Do you notice anything that has been added to the article, in the source that you cite? Should we trust your source, or the actual newspaper's own Web site? If the warning was non-specific, and sent to employees in Israel, rather than to employees at the company's New York headquarters, a stone's throw from Ground Zero, why were they making such a fuss about it, both in Israel and in the United Sates, and why has the actual text of the message never been published, to squelch the rumors that nearby workers, in downtown Manhattan, had received such a warning, a couple of hours before the attacks on the World Trade Center Twin Towers? Why has the sender never been publicly identified, and his explanation for the message expounded? Even if the two Odigo employees who received the message were located in Israel-- whether permanently or merely at the time-- did the message, whatever it actually said, specify an attack in Israel, Manhattan, or nowhere in the world in particular?
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  245. This Is Our Home [AKA "Robert Rediger"] says:
    @Steve Sailer
    Thanks, now can you find the NYT article the Fox article is citing?

    I'm not saying they got it wrong -- like I said, in reading this old article from ABC News, I was surprised to learn how serious the FBI was about interrogating these guys, like 40 days in solitary.

    Thanks, now can you find the NYT article the Fox article is citing?

    I’m not saying they got it wrong — like I said, in reading this old article from ABC News, I was surprised to learn how serious the FBI was about interrogating these guys, like 40 days in solitary

    I have found the New York Time article quoted here: http://www.911myths.com/index.php/Dancing_Israelis

    It helpfully comes with a lot of other information that makes this all look silly. Not that a theory like this needs to be made to look sillier.

    If I needed to document 9/11, having planned it. I would set up a camera from inside a closed apartment window and leave it set up. I certainly wouldn’t send five Israeli bums to party on down in a very visible location with money in a sock…indeed I wouldn’t even document it, as the rest of the world would do that for me, and what would I gain?

    I especially wouldn’t have my hobo spies go on television and admit to it!

    The 9/11 truth movement is a cancer on alternative politics in the West. It sucks the life out of any feasible movement and slurs all of us by association. Donald Trump avoids this slur because he never gives succour to it and he obviously is not part of it, even if the insaniacs somehow believe that he is secretly messaging them. The 9/11 ‘theory’ can only be believed by those who have never organised anything even as big as a bake sale…

    This means that not only is the message polluted but because the message is now largely the messenger, our message is associated with a toxic mixture of self-aggrandising liars and the obviously crazy.

    You should not ban these guys, but please do not entertain them.

    God, I wish I might recommend your blog to others but some things are just too hard to recover from being associated with. Unz.com is now not only the site for opinions rendered taboo by the PC zeitgeist but also for opinions so utterly nuts that the zeitgeist rejects them too; can we not save it for infowars.com or some other place that has been telling the US population that they’ll be in FEMA camps tomorrow for the past 15 years?

    Courses of action could include:

    1. A mirror site with no comments; which is technically easy.

    2. A mirror site with conspiracy nonsense comments moderated out; which would take more time but would be more useful.

    3. You address this type of thinking in your blog posts; which would cover a generally interesting topic but may distract you from bigger things. Still, you have greater experience of this type of thinking than the majority of public intellectuals.

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    • Replies: @Rurik

    I especially wouldn’t have my hobo spies go on television and admit to it!
     
    but yet they did Robert

    and to Steve's point, if these guys were a joke, why did the FBI keep them for so long?

    are the FBI also "self-aggrandising liars and the obviously crazy"?

    .

    BTW. I posted a reply here to someone regarding the video of George Bush describing his reaction to seeing the FIRST plane hit the tower, but it wasn't published, so don't worry Robert, there is some censorship going on here ; )
    , @Ron Unz

    This means that not only is the message polluted but because the message is now largely the messenger, our message is associated with a toxic mixture of self-aggrandising liars and the obviously crazy.

    You should not ban these guys, but please do not entertain them.

    God, I wish I might recommend your blog to others but some things are just too hard to recover from being associated with. Unz.com is now not only the site for opinions rendered taboo by the PC zeitgeist but also for opinions so utterly nuts that the zeitgeist rejects them too
     
    I really like it when some random, anonymous ultra-right-wing Internet nut suddenly shows up here and within a couple of weeks is telling everyone how the entire website should be completely changed. As far as I can see, you're mostly interested in fanatically denouncing Muslims and "anti-Semites" so maybe you're just Whiskey's long-lost brother or something...
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  246. This Is Our Home [AKA "Robert Rediger"] says:
    @tbraton
    But then there is the very disturbing fact that, in addition to the Twin Towers, which were hit by the two airliners, World Trade Center Building #7, which was definitely not hit by any airliner, completely collapsed in nearly identical fashion as the Twin Towers. I'm generally not one who subscribes to conspiracy theories, but, when faced with such disturbing, inexplicable facts, one has to conclude that we don't have the entire story.

    But then there is the very disturbing fact that, in addition to the Twin Towers, which were hit by the two airliners, World Trade Center Building #7, which was definitely not hit by any airliner, completely collapsed in nearly identical fashion as the Twin Towers. I’m generally not one who subscribes to conspiracy theories, but, when faced with such disturbing, inexplicable facts, one has to conclude that we don’t have the entire story.

    Have you ever looked this up to see how an expert would answer your query? It seems that they ahve put a lot of effort into it and are very well-informed of the technical details. Why would they lie?

    http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/design/a3524/4278874/

    Read More
    • Replies: @Truth

    Why would they lie?
     
    The "expert" who original edited this article is the is the Brother of Michael Chertoff, who at the time was the acting Director of Homeland Security.

    Maybe that's why.
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  247. @Mike Sylwester
    I live in Bergen County, New Jersey. Today the county's newspaper, The Record, published an interesting article about the accusations that local Moslems celebrated the 9/11 attacks.

    Most of the accusations were about Moslems in Jersey City, which is in Hudson County, and Paterson, which is in Passaic County. Since Bergen County is between those two counties, The Record actively investigated the accusations.

    On that day, 9/11, there indeed was a "deluge" of accusations from local people who said they personally saw such celebrations. Many such accusations were reported and discussed on local talk-radio stations. So, accusations about celebrating Moslems were exceptionally intense in this geographic area.

    Law enforcement officials, civil rights advocates and news reporters who were working in the immediate aftermath of the attacks said Monday that they were deluged with calls and emails from people who claimed to have witnessed celebrations in Jersey City and Paterson, but that they had found no persuasive evidence to back up any of those accounts.

    .... the rumors were started when people called in reported sightings of Muslims celebrating in New Jersey to a New York City talk radio station. ....

    The Record ... reported on Sept 13, 2001, that rumors of Muslim celebrations were unfounded but that the story had been difficult to dispel, “moving briskly through e-mails, telephone conversations, and at least one radio show.”

    John Chadwick, a former Record reporter, said he went to Paterson at least three times on that Sept. 12 to check out dozens of tips that Muslims were celebrating, only to find the streets vacated and most of the stores closed.

    “I’ve never experienced such a disconnect,” Chadwick said. “Not only was there no celebration, there was like nobody around. The shops seemed to be closed. There was nobody on the streets. I sensed that people were just scared.”

    For days afterward, Chadwick said, he continued to receive emails from readers who said they had seen televised reports of celebrations and wanted to know why the paper was not covering it.

    “I would try to respond, ‘ If you saw this, let us know what channel was it? What was the news source?” Chadwick said. “Nobody ever came forward.” ...

    [Jerry] Spagnola, the former Paterson police chief, traced the origin of the story to television news reports shortly after the attacks that showed images of people protesting in the Middle East then flashed to pictures of empty streets in Paterson, where announcers explained, there is a large Muslim population. ....
     
    http://www.northjersey.com/news/trump-s-comments-of-9-11-celebrations-in-n-j-renew-long-standing-debate-1.1461485

    Yesterday, I collected from the Internet the following statements of people about Moslems seen celebrating in New Jersey on 9/11.

    I drove with family members though Patterson, N.J. that morning, after the planes hit. It’s not the kind of thing you forget. We witnessed people in traditional Muslim garb dancing, jumping, shouting and celebrating like their team had won the Super Bowl, just as Trump said.

    I didn’t see thousands of Muslims celebrating but I absolutely saw a pocket, perhaps 100, jumping for joy at the sight of the smoke rising from where the Twin Towers used to be. …. these events were a commonly accepted fact by Jerseyans.

    ——–

    I had my business on Pennsylvania Ave in Paterson, N.J. I saw people on Crooks Ave. and Main Street cheering and raising Middle Eastern flags.

    I’ll tell you exactly where I was. I had stopped in at Biggs bagels on crooks ave by the railroad tracks. I was wondering why all these crazy people were cheering. Find out a few minutes later America was under attack. I saw it with my own eyes.

    I witnessed pure evil. Donald Trump is right.”

    ——–

    What was happening is that they were in stores or small gathering cheering and when they were noticed they stopped. that is what happened when my sister saw them after she got gas and looked in the store to find someone to pay. she saw them gathered around a tv cheering and jumping up and down. When they saw her they stopped, I am sure that’s what a lot of people are talking about. Many were seen celebrating. So the police would not have been aware, as in my sister’s case. I had heard many stories like that throughout New Jersey.

    ——-

    They were in the streets banging on the cars trying to drive through the crowd in the street. The muslims were shouting death to Americans and allah is great [and] other crap I didn’t understand. We were amused until a car with 3 young women mistakenly turned on to main st.

    The muslims were banging on their windows and screaming, thats when we came out of our car and pushed the muslims off their car helped them back out and get back to the parkway.

    ——-

    I experienced/ witnessed many incidents of Muslims celebrating 9/11 in North Brunswick. I was in a grocery store when I heard the plane crashed on the store radio. The Muslim man in line next to me turned and spit on me. I’ll never forget it.

    ——-

    I live in Hudson County. It did happen in West New York. Saw it with my own eyes. I don’t need a media outlet to tell me what I witnessed just a few feet from me. People in cars, honking they’re horns and waiving their flags.

    ——

    I saw black and Arab people in NEWARK PATH MARK SUPERMARKET – dancing and cheering as the TOWERS BURNED !!! and in JERSEY CITY – pockets of people in the streets shouting and laughing – TRUMP IS CORRECT

    ——-

    So when I was driving a bus threw paterson that day in the morning to see it and other people seen as well ..does it mean we where dreaming of what took place…

    ——–

    I saw it FIRST HAND! I drove an ambulance all over NJ. They were celebrating in the streets. I always wonder why they were never rounded up and sent to their homeland.

    ——-

    It absolutely happened in Paterson. The police even had some of the streets closed off to traffic because of it. I was in Paterson on the 12th for business and the whole area around Crooks Avenue was covered in people celebrating.

    ———-

    Want proof that Muslims celebrated as they heard of 9/11 attacks? 100s of young men laughing, dancing, cheering; I saw them.

    ———-

    The Muslims were celebrating until they realized the backlash soon to follow. I saw it.

    ———-

    I saw it, too. The day and age we live in doesn’t change the fact that Muslims did in fact party after 9/11 in jersey city. Love or hate trump, it happened

    ———-

    There is a service station in my town, near Edison, NJ, it was owned by Muslims at the time of 9-11. Many members of our community saw the workers there celebrating that day. That station was shunned by the locals as word spread and was eventually sold to new owners.

    [follow-up comment:]

    I’m a liberal Democrat and I saw the same thing from the Palestinian workers on 30th Street and 11th Avenue gas service station. Its closed now.

    ———-

    I lived and grew up in South Paterson NJ. I knew lots of people in law enforcement. Someone I knew at the time from the Passaic County’s Prosecutors office told me that there were hundreds of people dancing in the streets when the Towers were attacked. Moreover, Paterson police were keeping people out of the city lest they felt it appropriate to attack some of the revelers. ….

    ———-

    I was a volunteer firefighter sent to the Hoboken FD to cover their turf while they were in NYC. I saw it with my own eyes while going through Jersey City too.

    ———-

    I lived in northwest nj…and yes, they were celebrating in patterson…not thousands but a couple of hundred…. WE SAW IT and will NEVER forget it!

    ———-

    It certainly did happen! I worked in Jersey City that day!

    ———-

    I actually saw them in Patterson NJ. I was one of the people who had to hold back fellow firefighters from going back there to fight with them.

    ———-

    I work in Paterson New Jersey. Many residents I’ve spoken to recently remember the celebrations that day. 2 were police officers called to protect the Muslims from others who were upset by the display. They (Muslims) danced and cheered. They still live here.

    ———-

    I was there. I saw it too. I was working in Hoboken, and drove through Jersey City and Newark back and forth to my home. Muslims were there. They were celebrating.

    ———-

    I do remember seeing this. This is one of those politically incorrect things we want to forget about 9/11. …. I do remember those Muslims who were celebrating and chanting/yelling in the streets in New Jersey. To say they represented all Muslims is a lie. To say they did not exist is also a lie.

    ———-

    I lived in Hoboken at the time and while I didn’t witness these celebrations, I know plenty of people (i.e. former co-workers) who did.

    ———-

    This is true the people of Jersey City took to the streets in riot on Journal Square the reports where telling people to stay away.

    ———-

    Yes he is right I live in NJ and witnessed children stomping on a flag that fell off a car while their parents laughed . Let the truth be told

    ———-

    I saw in Paterson, N.J. about 30 to 50 men yelling and cheering in the street.waving their flags…

    ———-

    I lived in Staten Island new york at the time of 911 attacks …. Later that day, i went to liquor store on forest ave. There were young Muslim men, on the roof toop, waving a flag, as I enter the store about 5 young men, Muslims were smiling and dancing as they gave me candy. …. I latter went into a small grouciers store on Muslim men young and old were cheering when they were listen to the radio. ….

    http://nj1015.com/former-gov-difrancesco-i-dont-remember-people-celebrating-911-in-nj/

    https://www.facebook.com/nj1015/posts/10153456648123451

    http://www.bizpacreview.com/2015/11/23/live-jersey-trump-right-muslims-celebrate-911-nj-saw-277082

    http://www.northjersey.com/news/trump-s-comments-of-9-11-celebrations-in-n-j-renew-long-standing-debate-1.1461485

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    • Replies: @James Kabala
    "The police even had some of the streets closed off to traffic because of it."

    How can this not be documented somewhere in a contemporaneous source if it is true? This claim, unlike most of the others, actually involves a public use of public resources that should have left some trace in the public record. (My overuse of the word "public" is deliberate.) If anyone thinks that this might be true, he should file a freedom of information request with the Paterson PD.

    You can talk all you want about the liberal media, but there were already early blogs, Yahoo and Usenet groups that often still have accessible archives, etc. You also have Fox News and (especially) the New York Post that would not have been inclined to join a cover-up (if not for true conservative principles, then at least for love of the sensationalistic).

    , @KA
    Around 911 incident , reports were coming of celebrations in Palestine territory and Saddam rejoicing at the sight of the plane striking twin towers but no one reported a single incident of any group pf Muslim celebrating this 911 incident either in US ,Canada,UK,or France .
    Even when Thomas Friedman falsely claimed that no one from Muslim countries had condemned the attack , this behavior supposedly from muslim in US was not told . I am sure he would have followed it up to show this if for nothing but for to prove this as an evidence of the silent invisible support of anger against US among Muslims
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  248. I, for one, always carry five grand in cash with me, in case I have to pay “movers.” I just assumed everyone else does as well.

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  249. Svigor says:

    “Ever watched The Americans? That’s why it was so “over the top”; they wanted to make sure you were born and raised here, and not living a cover story.”

    The worst ever FBI mole, Robert Hanssen, was born and raised in America.

    I saw a couple episodes of “The Americans”. It seemed ridiculous. I think it unlikely that it’s a realistic portrayal of espionage (for example, I imagine that murdering a defector in your own garage is not a very smart thing for a deep-cover agent to do). Yeah, the show has some former spooks as technical advisors. Technical advisors often just get ignored by writers, directors, and producers.

    Which episodes did you watch? The series gets much better as it goes on. The first season is mediocre, but it really ramps up after that. It’s now the most reactionary thing I’ve ever seen on TV, but with masterfully-crafted plausible deniability.

    But no, it’s not at all a realistic portrayal of espionage, which is something I suspect is impossible to do in an entertaining way. (And yes, there’s more cheesy kung-fu and butt-kicking-babe action than there needs to be, though it’s used pretty sparingly compared to schlock like Alias) You can have drama and action, or realistic espionage, but not both, at least not in a series that follows the same characters all the way through. Good spies lead exceptionally boring lives, at least as far as any observers are concerned. You should give it another chance.

    Even if they didn’t know an attack would or might happen, they still would have filmed it. Wouldn’t anyone? If they were engaged in surveilance they would have had video-cameras, and most people who had video-cameras on that that day, who weren’t in immediate danger, filmed what they could of the attacks.

    Sure, that’s plausible too. I have long since filed 9/11 and surrounding events into a folder titled, “We’ll Probably Never Know.”

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  250. Svigor says:

    The thing you have to be able to do to see the reactionary* nature of The Americans is watch it in a detached way, and think about the episodes after you watch. If you’re someone who can’t stand back from what the totally-full-of-shit leftist characters are saying, and can’t watch them without rooting for them, you won’t be able to enjoy it. But if you can read between the lines, it’s great political TV, IMO. I think we’ll have confirmation or denial of my take on the show if it’s able to wrap up in an organized way, instead of being abruptly canceled (which is not at all a given, what with the show’s low ratings); the ultimate fate of the characters will tell us a lot.

    *Mostly reactionary in two senses: 1) I suspect the show-runner is simply presenting what he sees as the truth, and that winds up being reactionary in effect 2) showing both sides of the story is reactionary nowadays.

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  251. SFG says:
    @Big Bill
    The recruiting is pretty simple. An Israeli agent goes on tour of the USA speaking at synagogues around the country on some innocuous subject.

    The rabbi who coordinates each whistlestop identifies likely helpers in the congregation who would be amenable to helping out.

    When the agent arrives in town, he speaks to each potential recruit privately and feels them out to see if they are willing to help. Perhaps they could provide a cover job for an Israeli agent. Maybe supply the Mossad with letterhead or business cards to provide cover. Or agree to be a mail drop, receiving mail and setting it aside for someone to pick up later.

    Not every Jew will agree to help, of course. But the nice thing--the thing that makes such low-key recruiting quite safe--is that no Jew would ever rat out a fellow Jew, even if he turns down the request and declines to assist the Mossad.

    This safety is enhanced by Jewish religious law. Being a "moser" (one who rats out a fellow Jew to gentiles) is a death penalty offense.

    Google "mosrim death penalty".

    The same ethnic/racial solidarity also works for Muslim jihadis. This is why even "moderate" Muslims are an existential threat to the West. They can be counted on to look the other way and say nothing, particularly in Muslim ghettos like Molenbeek and Malmo.

    Mao got it right with his dictum about revolutionaries swimming through the local population like fish in the sea.

    It might actually be a way to attract sayanim–perhaps they work with receptive rabbis, and you could probably find one or two in major metropolitan areas–but mosrim? You think dentists in Scarsdale and college professors in Newton are running around beheading anyone?

    I have no clue how Israeli intelligence cultivates sources, but I doubt expecting Temple Emanu-El in the Miami suburbs to rub people out is part of it.

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  252. Svigor says:

    E.g., I defy anyone with any sense of how leftist the media is, and how audience-manipulation in American media works, to watch The Americans’ depiction of the South African storyline and tell me that wasn’t one of the most right-wing things on TV, ever. But at the same time, completely deniable.

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    • Replies: @Truth

    The Americans’ depiction of the South African storyline and tell me that wasn’t one of the most right-wing things on TV, ever.

     

    I agree. That plus the storyline where she was porking the knee-grow.
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  253. Svigor says:

    Rediger, SFG: is it really hard to imagine that for a sophisticated bunch like the Jews, “death penalty” evolved into “social death penalty”? Why so obtuse?

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    • Replies: @This Is Our Home

    Rediger, SFG: is it really hard to imagine that for a sophisticated bunch like the Jews, “death penalty” evolved into “social death penalty”? Why so obtuse?
     
    The Jews I know mostly hang out with non-Jews. Not sure if they'd much care if some other Jews shunned them. Maybe their grandparents would, but do people that old really socialise much?

    Even if they swam in a school of only Jews, how would it work? Mossad would instruct their friends to ignore them? Why wouldn't they be aggrieved and sell their story to the paper? And why would their friends listen to a Mossad agent over their friends.

    The whole thing just seems beyond unlikely.

    While I'm sure that Israel can persuade some ordinary Jews to help them with small stuff (who doesn't want to be a spy?) the rest of your stuff just seems otherworldly to me.

    Have you met any Jews? They're pretty normal people (minus the black uniformed bearded lot.)
    , @SFG
    Because they're not the same thing. There's always some guy who flies off the handle and goes off the reservation. 'Don't talk about Mossad or all your friends will ignore you' is not enough to keep *some* guy from squealing. If Mossad was actually going to hunt you down like the Mafia, that would be something else.

    I'm not saying Mossad doesn't assassinate people--we know they do. I'm saying it's unlikely Jewish identity is strong enough every single person is going to keep secret the Israelis asking them for favors. Probably they're smart enough to know who to ask. Do you actually know any Jews? Lots of people drift away, and 70% outmarry by now.
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  254. @SPMoore8
    German Burger King franchise Do they serve their Whoppers on Kaiser rolls?

    “German Burger King franchise Do they serve their Whoppers on Kaiser rolls?”

    They’re available on the local menu in Hamburg.


    There’s a photo out there somewhere showing the base of #7 before it fell. The rubble field from the collapsed tower destroyed about a third of 7′s footprint, and after hours of uncontrolled burning it was expected to fall. Nothing unusual about it. And you know, if you wanted to take down a tower, recruiting Islamic fundamentalists to fly a plane into it is a much better plan than a surreptitious demolition. The initial explosion will blow the fire proofing off, and the resulting fire is more than hot enough to weaken the structure (ignoring any insane arguments about “melting point”).

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    • Replies: @SPMoore8
    Apropos of the second part of your comment, I will weigh in on 9/11 briefly, if you don't mind.

    I didn't see the planes hit but I watched the scene for about an hour, I was stuck in traffic. Actually I didn't want to watch. I glanced over once in awhile.

    Black gray smoke rose from both up to the convection layer and then moved south. I knew about a half dozen people who worked there, most survived, partly because they were late or had the day off. I remember when the smoke turned white on South Tower that was a good thing; it meant the fire was under control, or so I thought. The building bent over and collapsed straight down about 10 minutes later. By the time the second tower collapsed there was already so much smoke you could hardly see what was happening.

    I don't think there's any big mystery. The North tower had the top ten floors collapse on the the remainder, the force just knocked out the rest like dominoes. South tower, from where I was in Jersey, seemed to bend over to the South -- I thought I was hallucinating -- but then the force of 30-40 floors reestablished itself straight up down and then down.

    I don't think there's a big mystery to what happened. It's clear that pilot #2 almost missed his target. The fire weakened the supports for the upper floors, and they came down with increasing force due to the velocity of the fall. I think the terrorists may have thought they might "knock them over", I don't think they expected them to collapse the way they did.

    It's possible that some intelligence service(s) had some vague warning of something before the attack. I think that's at least as possible as foreknowledge of a possible Japanese attack in December, 1941. That would be about it.

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  255. ShaslA says:
    @This Is Our Home
    If you broke the law, just tell the truth.

    Doesn’t work like that.

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    • Replies: @This Is Our Home
    I guess it depends how badly you broke the law. I'm pretty sure you can have downloaded music illegally etc.
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  256. Mr. Anon says:
    @ben tillman

    I can’t believe there are so many questions surrounding 9/11 and Israeli involvement, and nobody in power seems the least bit interested in getting to the bottom of it.

    It’s truly a mystery.
     
    The PNACkers were the prime suspects, and their network extended into the government, so it's natural to suspect some government involvement, especially in view of otherwise hard-to-explain facts like the failure of the military to intercept the hijacked planes and the government's decision to destroy the crime scene so quickly.

    “The PNACkers were the prime suspects, and their network extended into the government, so it’s natural to suspect some government involvement, especially in view of otherwise hard-to-explain facts like the failure of the military to intercept the hijacked planes and the government’s decision to destroy the crime scene so quickly.”

    The government did not destroy the crime scene. They hauled the debris somewhere else. They do the same thing with every single airplane crash.

    And I have never understood the fixation on the fact that the government didn’t shoot down the planes. It was an extraordinary event. And no matter what people – even military people do – in wargaming and exercises and the like – people don’t really expect things like that to happen. If Air Force pilots had robot-like followed orders to shoot down planes full of innocent people…………would that make you feel better? Would it make you feel better about the US military and government if they were quick to issue and follow orders like that?

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    • Replies: @ben tillman

    And I have never understood the fixation on the fact that the government didn’t shoot down the planes. It was an extraordinary event. And no matter what people – even military people do – in wargaming and exercises and the like – people don’t really expect things like that to happen. If Air Force pilots had robot-like followed orders to shoot down planes full of innocent people…………would that make you feel better?
     
    Intercepting and shooting down are different things. And the fact that you are unaware of the government's explanation for the failure to intercept should tell you that you don't know the full story -- not even the full *official* story.

    The government did not destroy the crime scene. They hauled the debris somewhere else. They do the same thing with every single airplane crash.
     
    No, they've never done the same thing with any other airplane crash because there never was any airplane crash for which they could do the same thing. These crashes, taken together, were unique.
    , @Ron Unz
    FYI...

    http://www.unz.com/article/911-the-mother-of-all-coincidences/
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  257. Mr. Anon says:
    @tbraton
    But then there is the very disturbing fact that, in addition to the Twin Towers, which were hit by the two airliners, World Trade Center Building #7, which was definitely not hit by any airliner, completely collapsed in nearly identical fashion as the Twin Towers. I'm generally not one who subscribes to conspiracy theories, but, when faced with such disturbing, inexplicable facts, one has to conclude that we don't have the entire story.

    “But then there is the very disturbing fact that, in addition to the Twin Towers, which were hit by the two airliners, World Trade Center Building #7, which was definitely not hit by any airliner.”

    Do you know anything – anything at all – about WTC 7 other than what you saw on a grainy YouTube video? And if it was all part of some vast conspiracy, why didn’t the conspirators fly a plane into WTC 7, to complete the illusion? They forgot? Oops………We wanted to engineer the destruction of these three buildings and make people believe that it was due to airplanes, but we forgot to fly an airplane into one of them.

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    • Replies: @Truth

    why didn’t the conspirators fly a plane into WTC 7, to complete the illusion? They forgot?
     
    Just taking a shot in the dark here: Because they knew that guys like you were going to believe it anyway?

    BTW Welcome back Grasshopper. Or maybe I was the one who left?
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  258. bomag says:
    @AnotherDad

    I would think Israel’s laxity regarding that post-Soviet wave was intentional. Israel’s leaders likely saw it as a demographic bulwark against Arabs as well as against Mizrahi Jews.
     
    Do these truly non-Jewish Russians actually stick in Israel? I'd think almost all of them who don't identify as Jewish would have tried to get on the US. (There sure seem to be a heck of a lot of Russians--and other ex-Soviets--swarming around these days.) Israel seems like a nice place, but it's a nice place for a particular people. If you don't really identify as Jewish i don't see why you'd stick there.

    ~~~

    Not up on things Israeli, but my very rough take:
    -- they've gotten the Arab fertility down now to near replacement--and they can always decide (at high political cost) to toss Arabs out.
    -- their long term demographic future is most endangered by the Haredi who have incredibly high (African level) fertility but are absolute parasites, sucking up welfare and (legally) dodging military service; they used to be trivial but are now broaching 10% of the population and will rapidly expand--given their fertility--beyond that

    I hate parasites--high, low and in-between. They are a cancer. They suck the life from nations and need to be rooted out, suppressed or tossed out. I don't keep up with Israeli affairs--not my people--but i haven't heard that normal secular\religious Israelis have devised any coherent plan to deal with this menace.

    In the ongoing massive social experiment on planet Earth the plan to deal with population is to turn everyone into a modern Progressive and thus sterilize them. Not everyone is going to go along, so we will see how it works out.

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  259. Mr. Anon says:
    @Arturo
    Gentlemen :

    The coincidences just keep piling up.

    I am surprised no one has mentioned yet the "E-Team" :

    http://robscholtemuseum.nl/mark-dotzler-thoughts-on-the-wtc-artists/

    This was a group of Israeli Art students who were given exclusive access to seven critical stories of the WTC north tower to perform an "art installation" that consisted among other things of the giant office-window billboard spelling out "E TEAM", and an actual balcony they installed for a few hours by removing a pane of glass.

    This is the real deal people, it's getting hotter.

    Even the NYT wrote about the E-team and their 91st-floor balcony :

    http://www.nytimes.com/2001/08/18/nyregion/balcony-scene-unseen-atop-world-episode-trade-center-assumes-mythic-qualities.html?pagewanted=all&src=pm

    There's a lot of Israeli art students and e-team (explosives team?) stuff on crimes of the times today.

    One thing that is absolutely freaking me out :

    The boxes and boxes and boxes of BB 18 on the 91st floor of the Israeli art students E-Team project.

    Prepare to get spooked :

    http://www.littelfuse.com/products/fuse-blocks-fuseholders-and-fuse-accessories/dead-front-fuse-holders/powr-busbar/bb18.aspx

    “This was a group of Israeli Art students who were given exclusive access to seven critical stories of the WTC north tower to perform an “art installation”…”

    They were not Israeli; they were Austrian.

    “The boxes and boxes and boxes of BB 18 on the 91st floor of the Israeli art students E-Team project.

    Prepare to get spooked :

    http://www.littelfuse.com/products/fuse-blocks-fuseholders-and-fuse-accessories/dead-front-fuse-holders/powr-busbar/bb18.aspx”

    Yeah – that’s real spooky to anyone who thinks that electricity is magic. Those aren’t bomb fuse holders (I don’t think there even is such a thing) – they are electric fuse holders – common power distribution equipment, of the kind one might typically find in a power-panel in an office building. It is not surprising that there would be empty boxes for that stuff laying around.

    Everything is a mystery to the stupid.

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  260. @Ron Unz

    You can also find the archived version of the official, Mexican govt. site confirming the explosives.
     
    Excellent. It's always nice to confirm that my memory wasn't playing tricks on me after so many years.

    Ron

    I don’t think the link AC provides is all he claims it to be. The web archive link refers to “a 9 mm caliber weapon”. You value the Pravda link for what you think it is worth.

    Google translate of text from link:

    THE PGR INFORMS ABOUT SITUATION
    SUBJECT ARRESTED IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
     
    Regarding the situation of the 2 subjects detained last Wednesday near the Legislative Palace of San Lazaro, the Attorney General’s Office reports that the Israeli citizen Saer Ben-Zvi and Saar Noam Ben Zvi was made available to the First Court of “A” Federal Criminal Proceedings in Mexico City, Distrito while the Mexican Salvador Gersson Smeck will release order issued stocks with the law, because no items were found for your consignment.

    Under that when he was arrested Gersson Smeck carrying a 9 mm caliber weapon, was released reserves of the law and gave sight to the Secretariat of National Defense regarding the permit to carry a firearm with that account.

    The Israeli Ben Zvi was admitted to the Men’s Prison north slope that will resolve their legal status, as likely responsible for the commission of crimes of violation of the General Population Act, provided for and punished by Articles 123 and 143 General Population Act, all in connection with the 6th. And 7th., Section 1, 8. 9th and 13th, Fraction II of the Federal Penal Code, which start is given to the relevant criminal proceedings.

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    • Replies: @Ron Unz

    I don’t think the link AC provides is all he claims it to be. The web archive link refers to “a 9 mm caliber weapon”. You value the Pravda link for what you think it is worth.
     
    Well, I don't recall looking at any Mexican government website or reading something from Russian Pravda. What I read was a translation of one of the big articles in a leading Mexican newspaper, and I'm pretty sure it mentioned explosives or maybe hand grenades and electrical wiring as well as a handgun. Admittedly, that was almost ten years ago, but a few years back I noticed that some "conspiracy nuts" had scanned one of those Mexican front-page banner-headline stories and put the entire thing up on their website, so maybe it's still floating around somewhere.

    Anyway, regarding this sort of thing I'd much more trust an account in Russian Pravda than in American Pravda. But if you prefer to believe that everything you read about "controversial" subjects in The New York Times is 100% accurate, be my guest...
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  261. Boomstick says:
    @Ron Unz

    You can also find the archived version of the official, Mexican govt. site confirming the explosives.
     
    Excellent. It's always nice to confirm that my memory wasn't playing tricks on me after so many years.

    The Google translation of what is claimed to be the Mexican government account:

    “THE PGR INFORMS ABOUT THE SITUATION OF INDIVIDUALS ARRESTED IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
    Regarding the situation of the 2 subjects detained last Wednesday near the Legislative Palace of San Lazaro, the Attorney General’s Office reports that the Israeli citizen Saer Ben-Zvi and Saar Noam Ben Zvi was made available to the First Court of “A” Federal Criminal Proceedings in Mexico City, Distrito while the Mexican Salvador Gersson Smeck will release order issued stocks with the law, because no items were found for your consignment.
    Under that when he was arrested Gersson Smeck carrying a 9 mm caliber weapon, was released reserves of the law and gave sight to the Secretariat of National Defense regarding the permit to carry a firearm with that account.
    The Israeli Ben Zvi was admitted to the Men’s Prison north slope that will resolve their legal status, as likely responsible for the commission of crimes of violation of the General Population Act, provided for and punished by Articles 123 and 143 General Population Act, all in connection with the 6th. And 7th., Section 1, 8. 9th and 13th, Fraction II of the Federal Penal Code, which start is given to the relevant criminal proceedings. [1]”

    One guy licensed to carry a Glock, one guy arrested for immigration problems.

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    • Replies: @bunga
    From the PGR (Mexican Department Of Justice) official web site comes an interesting story.

    As reported in La Vox De Aztlan, two men, one of them a former Israeli Colonel and Mossad agent, were arrested INSIDE the Mexican congress carrying 9mm pistols and dynamite, but were released following intense pressure from the Israeli Embassy.

    Army General and Head of the PGR Releases Two Israelis
    Arrested With Guns and Explosives Inside the Mexican Congress
    By Ernesto Cienfuegos La Voz de Aztlan
    October 15, 2001

    LOS ANGELES (ACN) - In a mind-blowing development, La Voz de Aztlan has learned that Mexican Army General Rafael Marcial Macedo de la Concha who heads the Procuraduría General de la República (Mexican Department of Justice) has released the retired Israeli Defense Forces colonel and presumed MOSSAD agent Salvador Guersson Smecke and Israeli illegal immigrant Saur Ben Zvi after both had penetrated the security of the Mexican Congress and where in possession of guns, hand grenades and explosives.

    http://www.rense.com/general17/mossadagentsarrested.htm
    , @bunga
    In February of 2000, Indian intelligence officials detained 11 members of what they thought was an Al Qaeda hijacking conspiracy. It was then discovered that these 11 "Muslim preachers" were all Israeli nationals! India's leading weekly magazine, The Week, reported:

    On January 12 Indian intelligence officials in Calcutta detained 11 foreign nationals for interrogation before they were to board a Dhaka-bound Bangladesh Biman flight. They were detained on the suspicion of being hijackers. "But we realized that they were tabliqis (Islamic preachers), so we let them go", said an Intelligence official.

    The eleven had Israeli passports but were believed to be Afghan nationals who had spent a while in Iran. Indian intelligence officials, too, were surprised by the nationality profile of the eleven. "They say that they have been on tabligh (preaching Islam) in India for two months. But they are Israeli nationals from the West Bank," said a Central Intelligence official. He claimed that Tel Aviv "exerted considerable pressure" on Delhi to secure their release. "It appeared that they could be working for a sensitive organization in Israel and were on a mission to Bangladesh," the official said.

    The Week (India) Aborted Mission. Investigation: Did Mossad attempt to infiltrate Islamic radical outfits in south Asia? By Subir Bhaumik. February 6, 2000. Google users enter: muslim tabliqis mossad

    http://web.archive.org/web/20030210204900/http://www.the-week.com/20feb06/events2.htm
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  262. Rurik says:
    @Mr. Anon
    "I notice you didn’t consider my little blurt about how George Bush said publically (and on camera) that he saw the first plane hit WTC tower- curious. Did you know that? Does it matter to your mind if he said it or even if he did see it?"

    And what is so odd about that?

    "I don’t know where you stand on the whole 911 thing. A lot of people consider it prudent to not care too much. Perhaps it is. "

    A lot of people consider it prudent not to indulge in the kind of insanity that has largely come to characterizes the "Truther" movement.

    George Bush said publically (and on camera) that he saw the first plane hit WTC tower- curious. Did you know that? Does it matter to your mind if he said it or even if he did see it?”

    And what is so odd about that?

    first plane

    let that sink in for a minute

    ok

    here, let me help

    here’s the video

    you can find it all over the Internet if you look, (or cared)

    but for people with a functioning brain, for George Bush to have seen the FIRST plane hit the tower, which he clearly did from what he says, then that means that he was watching a live video feed of the “terrorist” attacks on that day. Someone had a camera set up and Bush happened to be watching before he went into that classroom.

    the kind of insanity that has largely come to characterizes the “Truther” movement.

    insanity indeed

    it literally is a kind of insanity to watch building seven implode and tell yourself that is was office fires that did it

    or to see president George Bush talking about watching the FIRST plane hit the tower and consider it of no consequence

    rather I wouldn’t so much put it down to insanity as I would intellectual and moral cowardice

    ; )

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    • Replies: @This Is Our Home

    first plane

    let that sink in for a minute

    ok
     

    I thought I saw footage of the first plane hitting the tower. No idea if I did, and although I was a child at the time I was more articulate than GWB.

    But anyway, as with all gotchas, the alternative to GWB making a mistake and confusing his words is that he decided to tell everyone he knew about 9/11. The latter is rather less likely.

    I just don't get why you can't work that out for yourself before you become the object of ridicule?

    , @Mr. Anon
    "first plane

    let that sink in for a minute

    ok

    here, let me help

    here’s the video"

    In that video that you posted, he did NOT say it was the first plane. He only said that he saw a plane hit the tower. Watch it again - and listen.

    And even if he did say first plane, so what? There is video of the first plane hitting.

    Or do you imagine that Bush's Mossad handlers had a private video feed set up for him, so that he could watch as the most egregious crime in American history was carrie out, knowing full well that he was a willing participant? And then, after all that, he admitted his culpability?

    You "truther" guys must be autistic. Or you're just stupid. I really don't care anymore. You are all loathsome f**ks.

    "it literally is a kind of insanity to watch building seven implode and tell yourself that is was office fires that did it"

    You are willfully stupid. It wasn't just office fires. The building had a f**king diesel fuel bunker in it to power back-up generators. Add to that, it was scoured by debris from the first impacts, and it had a make-shift cantilever structure becuause it was built over a subway station.

    "rather I wouldn’t so much put it down to insanity as I would intellectual and moral cowardice"

    F**k you. You idiots are stupid and crazy. You aren't worth the time of day.
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  263. bomag says:
    @Whiskey
    Re foreknowledge of the 9/11 attack. Well, yes, just as the French had a pretty good idea that something was coming in Paris before that most recent attack, and also before Charlie Hebdo. There was unusual jihadi behavior and chatter, and intelligence chiefs were nervous.

    Nothing was done because of PC. Anyone advocating action was tarred with Islamaphobia, and racism, so everyone just sat around. The action to be done was extremely tight border controls, interviews, massive mobilization of the police and security forces. Nothing like that could be done or would be done until after.

    Now, we either have a secret war like that against the OAS during De Gaulle's term, or simply deport lots of Muslims. I suspect neither will happen in the West, instead ever increasing Jihadi attacks because the killing is the point, of domination and control. Until things just snap.

    Reasonable reform measures that produce safety and security while not being horrible and vicious are impossible because of the dependency of the elite of bashing Bad Whites for social signaling and social unity; along with Muslim votes in Europe and Black votes in the US.

    Until things just snap

    Ha! More like the West just lies down and dies.

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  264. tanabear says:
    @tbraton
    But then there is the very disturbing fact that, in addition to the Twin Towers, which were hit by the two airliners, World Trade Center Building #7, which was definitely not hit by any airliner, completely collapsed in nearly identical fashion as the Twin Towers. I'm generally not one who subscribes to conspiracy theories, but, when faced with such disturbing, inexplicable facts, one has to conclude that we don't have the entire story.

    tbraton: “World Trade Center Building #7, which was definitely not hit by any airliner, completely collapsed in nearly identical fashion as the Twin Towers…”

    It wasn’t entirely identical. The North and South towers were destroyed top-down. Word Trade Tower 7 was more of a conventional looking demolition; but still a masterpiece of demolition science.

    The phrase “conspiracy theory” is just used as an ad hominem. What explanation best fits the available evidence? It certainly isn’t the official account.

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    • Replies: @This Is Our Home

    The phrase “conspiracy theory” is just used as an ad hominem. What explanation best fits the available evidence? It certainly isn’t the official account.
     
    What is it then?
    , @Mr. Anon
    "The phrase “conspiracy theory” is just used as an ad hominem."

    Spare us your "ad hominem" bullshit. I bet that you are quite cool with the concept of ad hominem, as long as the hominem in question is a Jew.
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  265. bomag says:
    @Romanian

    Yeah, you should probably set your hopes a bit lower. I’ll be happy if my kids aren’t forced to pay jizya and the country still has indoor plumbing.
     
    You made me laugh out loud. There should be a thread like that.

    Seriously, yeah, space. Lots of potential disappointments there, but people who lived through the optimism of the 1960s and 1970s would know that a lot better than I. I'm sure Musk's companies pay some indirect protection money in the form of caterers and the like to compensate for the lack of melanin on-staff.

    Lots of potential disappointments there, but people who lived through the optimism of the 1960s and 1970s would know that a lot better than I.

    Pretty much the theme was that the gov’t shouldn’t countenance spending money on advancements in space while we had all these social problems on Earth, problems that will soon be solved if we could just spend more money on them.

    The social problems have shown themselves to be completely fractal, while our gov’t, via the various iron laws of bureaucracy, Peter principles, mass wasting, and general increase in entropy; has become much less able to get things done.

    The advances in tech, helped greatly by the Moon missions etc., has now made the current private sector efforts possible. Let’s hope it bears fruit.

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    • Replies: @Romanian
    I read somewhere that AA activists actually drove a cart and mule to NASA's gates to protest the wasteful spending on the Apollo program? Maybe something Paul Kersey wrote?

    On Steve Sailer's recommendation, I read Christopher Caldwell's book, "Reflections on the Revolutions in Europe", which I found frustratingly impartial, like written by an alien observer. He had a line there about "moving from not being able to end welfare because the recipients are too weak, to not being able to end it because they are too strong".

    I think it's pretty obvious that continued mass migrations into Europe and US will quell basic scientific research and other advances, just like South Africa's space and nuclear program went to hell. The priorities simply change.
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  266. TWS says:
    @Charles Erwin Wilson
    Though he should be J-Ackass instead of J-Pod. His brays are pure and unmixed moonbattery.

    I would like to think he could be dissuaded from his stupidity. Reason and experience argue forcefully against that outcome.

    Pod the Lesser.

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  267. WhatEvvs [AKA "Internet Addict"] says:
    @Hippopotamusdrome
    Counter protest at BLM protest. BLM'ers chase away counter protesters and pursue them down the street. Then pursuing party gets shot at.

    5 People Shot Near BLM Protest

    &@boomstick,

    Meanwhile, the original focus of the protest, Jamar Clark or some other such stupid name, beat his girlfriend so badly she needed surgery. I learned that from a random comment. No word on her from The NY Times.

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  268. Rurik says:
    @This Is Our Home

    Thanks, now can you find the NYT article the Fox article is citing?

    I’m not saying they got it wrong — like I said, in reading this old article from ABC News, I was surprised to learn how serious the FBI was about interrogating these guys, like 40 days in solitary
     
    I have found the New York Time article quoted here: http://www.911myths.com/index.php/Dancing_Israelis

    It helpfully comes with a lot of other information that makes this all look silly. Not that a theory like this needs to be made to look sillier.

    If I needed to document 9/11, having planned it. I would set up a camera from inside a closed apartment window and leave it set up. I certainly wouldn't send five Israeli bums to party on down in a very visible location with money in a sock...indeed I wouldn't even document it, as the rest of the world would do that for me, and what would I gain?

    I especially wouldn't have my hobo spies go on television and admit to it!

    The 9/11 truth movement is a cancer on alternative politics in the West. It sucks the life out of any feasible movement and slurs all of us by association. Donald Trump avoids this slur because he never gives succour to it and he obviously is not part of it, even if the insaniacs somehow believe that he is secretly messaging them. The 9/11 'theory' can only be believed by those who have never organised anything even as big as a bake sale...

    This means that not only is the message polluted but because the message is now largely the messenger, our message is associated with a toxic mixture of self-aggrandising liars and the obviously crazy.

    You should not ban these guys, but please do not entertain them.

    God, I wish I might recommend your blog to others but some things are just too hard to recover from being associated with. Unz.com is now not only the site for opinions rendered taboo by the PC zeitgeist but also for opinions so utterly nuts that the zeitgeist rejects them too; can we not save it for infowars.com or some other place that has been telling the US population that they'll be in FEMA camps tomorrow for the past 15 years?

    Courses of action could include:

    1. A mirror site with no comments; which is technically easy.

    2. A mirror site with conspiracy nonsense comments moderated out; which would take more time but would be more useful.

    3. You address this type of thinking in your blog posts; which would cover a generally interesting topic but may distract you from bigger things. Still, you have greater experience of this type of thinking than the majority of public intellectuals.

    I especially wouldn’t have my hobo spies go on television and admit to it!

    but yet they did Robert

    and to Steve’s point, if these guys were a joke, why did the FBI keep them for so long?

    are the FBI also “self-aggrandising liars and the obviously crazy”?

    .

    BTW. I posted a reply here to someone regarding the video of George Bush describing his reaction to seeing the FIRST plane hit the tower, but it wasn’t published, so don’t worry Robert, there is some censorship going on here ; )

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    • Replies: @This Is Our Home

    but yet they did Robert
     
    I take it you don't have a second language.

    and to Steve’s point, if these guys were a joke, why did the FBI keep them for so long?
     
    Due diligence? Because they were art scamming criminals? Because they didn't want to look easy on them? Because they were freaked out by the whole situation?

    All of these explanations are infinitely more plausible than your alternative.

    BTW. I posted a reply here to someone regarding the video of George Bush describing his reaction to seeing the FIRST plane hit the tower, but it wasn’t published, so don’t worry Robert, there is some censorship going on here ; )
     
    So they kept it up until you, brave Rurik, pointed it out on Unz.com? Surely you're a troll, that is like a satire of paranoid schizophrenia.
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  269. This Is Our Home [AKA "Robert Rediger"] says:
    @Svigor
    Rediger, SFG: is it really hard to imagine that for a sophisticated bunch like the Jews, "death penalty" evolved into "social death penalty"? Why so obtuse?

    Rediger, SFG: is it really hard to imagine that for a sophisticated bunch like the Jews, “death penalty” evolved into “social death penalty”? Why so obtuse?

    The Jews I know mostly hang out with non-Jews. Not sure if they’d much care if some other Jews shunned them. Maybe their grandparents would, but do people that old really socialise much?

    Even if they swam in a school of only Jews, how would it work? Mossad would instruct their friends to ignore them? Why wouldn’t they be aggrieved and sell their story to the paper? And why would their friends listen to a Mossad agent over their friends.

    The whole thing just seems beyond unlikely.

    While I’m sure that Israel can persuade some ordinary Jews to help them with small stuff (who doesn’t want to be a spy?) the rest of your stuff just seems otherworldly to me.

    Have you met any Jews? They’re pretty normal people (minus the black uniformed bearded lot.)

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  270. This Is Our Home [AKA "Robert Rediger"] says:
    @ShaslA
    Doesn't work like that.

    I guess it depends how badly you broke the law. I’m pretty sure you can have downloaded music illegally etc.

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  271. bunga says:
    @Boomstick
    The Google translation of what is claimed to be the Mexican government account:

    "THE PGR INFORMS ABOUT THE SITUATION OF INDIVIDUALS ARRESTED IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
    Regarding the situation of the 2 subjects detained last Wednesday near the Legislative Palace of San Lazaro, the Attorney General's Office reports that the Israeli citizen Saer Ben-Zvi and Saar Noam Ben Zvi was made available to the First Court of "A" Federal Criminal Proceedings in Mexico City, Distrito while the Mexican Salvador Gersson Smeck will release order issued stocks with the law, because no items were found for your consignment.
    Under that when he was arrested Gersson Smeck carrying a 9 mm caliber weapon, was released reserves of the law and gave sight to the Secretariat of National Defense regarding the permit to carry a firearm with that account.
    The Israeli Ben Zvi was admitted to the Men's Prison north slope that will resolve their legal status, as likely responsible for the commission of crimes of violation of the General Population Act, provided for and punished by Articles 123 and 143 General Population Act, all in connection with the 6th. And 7th., Section 1, 8. 9th and 13th, Fraction II of the Federal Penal Code, which start is given to the relevant criminal proceedings. [1]"

    One guy licensed to carry a Glock, one guy arrested for immigration problems.

    From the PGR (Mexican Department Of Justice) official web site comes an interesting story.

    As reported in La Vox De Aztlan, two men, one of them a former Israeli Colonel and Mossad agent, were arrested INSIDE the Mexican congress carrying 9mm pistols and dynamite, but were released following intense pressure from the Israeli Embassy.

    Army General and Head of the PGR Releases Two Israelis
    Arrested With Guns and Explosives Inside the Mexican Congress
    By Ernesto Cienfuegos La Voz de Aztlan
    October 15, 2001

    LOS ANGELES (ACN) – In a mind-blowing development, La Voz de Aztlan has learned that Mexican Army General Rafael Marcial Macedo de la Concha who heads the Procuraduría General de la República (Mexican Department of Justice) has released the retired Israeli Defense Forces colonel and presumed MOSSAD agent Salvador Guersson Smecke and Israeli illegal immigrant Saur Ben Zvi after both had penetrated the security of the Mexican Congress and where in possession of guns, hand grenades and explosives.

    http://www.rense.com/general17/mossadagentsarrested.htm

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  272. Dave Pinsen says: • Website
    @Travis
    listening to the radio station Jersey 101.5 today, Dennis and Judy , used their program to ask Jersey residents if they recalled seeing anyone celebrating on 9/11.

    dozens of callers remembered seeing Muslims in Paterson and Jersey City rejoicing or celebrating that day...the hosts were somewhat surprised, as they acknowledged most of the callers appeared credible and the callers themselves did sound convincing. Dennis made it known he does not support Trump, but he seemed to believe many of the callers.

    Mark Simone on WWOR confirmed it today as well, and pointed out that smart phones with video capability didn’t exist then, hence the paucity of video.

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  273. bunga says:
    @Boomstick
    The Google translation of what is claimed to be the Mexican government account:

    "THE PGR INFORMS ABOUT THE SITUATION OF INDIVIDUALS ARRESTED IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
    Regarding the situation of the 2 subjects detained last Wednesday near the Legislative Palace of San Lazaro, the Attorney General's Office reports that the Israeli citizen Saer Ben-Zvi and Saar Noam Ben Zvi was made available to the First Court of "A" Federal Criminal Proceedings in Mexico City, Distrito while the Mexican Salvador Gersson Smeck will release order issued stocks with the law, because no items were found for your consignment.
    Under that when he was arrested Gersson Smeck carrying a 9 mm caliber weapon, was released reserves of the law and gave sight to the Secretariat of National Defense regarding the permit to carry a firearm with that account.
    The Israeli Ben Zvi was admitted to the Men's Prison north slope that will resolve their legal status, as likely responsible for the commission of crimes of violation of the General Population Act, provided for and punished by Articles 123 and 143 General Population Act, all in connection with the 6th. And 7th., Section 1, 8. 9th and 13th, Fraction II of the Federal Penal Code, which start is given to the relevant criminal proceedings. [1]"

    One guy licensed to carry a Glock, one guy arrested for immigration problems.

    In February of 2000, Indian intelligence officials detained 11 members of what they thought was an Al Qaeda hijacking conspiracy. It was then discovered that these 11 “Muslim preachers” were all Israeli nationals! India’s leading weekly magazine, The Week, reported:

    On January 12 Indian intelligence officials in Calcutta detained 11 foreign nationals for interrogation before they were to board a Dhaka-bound Bangladesh Biman flight. They were detained on the suspicion of being hijackers. “But we realized that they were tabliqis (Islamic preachers), so we let them go”, said an Intelligence official.

    The eleven had Israeli passports but were believed to be Afghan nationals who had spent a while in Iran. Indian intelligence officials, too, were surprised by the nationality profile of the eleven. “They say that they have been on tabligh (preaching Islam) in India for two months. But they are Israeli nationals from the West Bank,” said a Central Intelligence official. He claimed that Tel Aviv “exerted considerable pressure” on Delhi to secure their release. “It appeared that they could be working for a sensitive organization in Israel and were on a mission to Bangladesh,” the official said.

    The Week (India) Aborted Mission. Investigation: Did Mossad attempt to infiltrate Islamic radical outfits in south Asia? By Subir Bhaumik. February 6, 2000. Google users enter: muslim tabliqis mossad

    http://web.archive.org/web/20030210204900/http://www.the-week.com/20feb06/events2.htm

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  274. This Is Our Home [AKA "Robert Rediger"] says:
    @Rurik


    George Bush said publically (and on camera) that he saw the first plane hit WTC tower- curious. Did you know that? Does it matter to your mind if he said it or even if he did see it?”
     
    And what is so odd about that?

     

    first plane

    let that sink in for a minute

    ok

    here, let me help

    here's the video

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eyi33ftRUZY

    you can find it all over the Internet if you look, (or cared)

    but for people with a functioning brain, for George Bush to have seen the FIRST plane hit the tower, which he clearly did from what he says, then that means that he was watching a live video feed of the "terrorist" attacks on that day. Someone had a camera set up and Bush happened to be watching before he went into that classroom.

    the kind of insanity that has largely come to characterizes the “Truther” movement.
     
    insanity indeed

    it literally is a kind of insanity to watch building seven implode and tell yourself that is was office fires that did it

    or to see president George Bush talking about watching the FIRST plane hit the tower and consider it of no consequence

    rather I wouldn't so much put it down to insanity as I would intellectual and moral cowardice

    ; )

    first plane

    let that sink in for a minute

    ok

    I thought I saw footage of the first plane hitting the tower. No idea if I did, and although I was a child at the time I was more articulate than GWB.

    But anyway, as with all gotchas, the alternative to GWB making a mistake and confusing his words is that he decided to tell everyone he knew about 9/11. The latter is rather less likely.

    I just don’t get why you can’t work that out for yourself before you become the object of ridicule?

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    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    It's not like Manhattan on a sunny morning in 2001 didn't have a lot of video cameras in random hands, such as tourists. A few cameras were pointed at the WTC. Here's the first clip to come up on Google:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PNzWVLJkyiI

    , @Rurik

    I thought I saw footage of the first plane hitting the tower. No idea if I did
     
    you might have Robert. Most of us have. There is by now a well known video of the first plane hitting the tower, but that one was filmed quite by a fluke. For Bush to have seen it 'before he went into the Florida classroom' meant that the video he saw was not a fluke. But something that was deliberate.

    In and of itself, I could put this down to more of that chimp's bumbling idiocies, even if it's very eerie.

    But this little 'curiosity' is not the only thing that proves the official story of 911 is a lie.

    The most damning things are the way the BBC and other news outlets reported on the implosion of building seven before it happened. That my friend is proof of advance knowledge. No less so than if the BBC had reported that the first plane had struck the tower 20 minutes before it did. It proves that the person who handed those journalists the story knew the building was going to come down, and the ONLY ones that could have known that were the ones who wired it for its obvious controlled demolition. Perhaps it was Osama who had one of his henchmen hand the BBC journalist that story, but I doubt that.

    I just don’t get why you can’t work that out for yourself before you become the object of ridicule?
     
    just use logic and reason and try, try! to think

    how could they report on something that no living human could have ever anticipated, unless they knew


    and if they knew, then the whole thing stinks to high heaven, ya see?

    but you have to be able to use your brain and think in order to be able to draw conclusions. For too many people it's just easier to watch the TV and listen to the talking heads and politicians explain everything to them and they're happy to chew their cud and accept what ever narrative is being slung on any particular day.

    but not all of us ; )
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  275. This Is Our Home [AKA "Robert Rediger"] says:
    @tanabear
    tbraton: "World Trade Center Building #7, which was definitely not hit by any airliner, completely collapsed in nearly identical fashion as the Twin Towers..."

    It wasn't entirely identical. The North and South towers were destroyed top-down. Word Trade Tower 7 was more of a conventional looking demolition; but still a masterpiece of demolition science.

    The phrase "conspiracy theory" is just used as an ad hominem. What explanation best fits the available evidence? It certainly isn't the official account.

    The phrase “conspiracy theory” is just used as an ad hominem. What explanation best fits the available evidence? It certainly isn’t the official account.

    What is it then?

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    • Replies: @tanabear
    The official account can not even begin to explain the events of 9/11. The sine qua non of the 9/11 attacks is the collapse of World Trade Towers 1,2 and 7 on that day. The official version, to the extent that there is one, cannot account for these phenomena. The National Institutes of Standards and Technology(NIST) was tasked with investigating the collapses. For WTC 1 and 2 their analysis started from the time of the plane impacts until the buildings were poised for collapse, but they did not analyze the actual collapse. Or in their words, "although it does not actually include the structural behavior of the tower after the conditions for collapse initiation were reached and collapse became inevitable." They seem to punt the ball over to Zdenek Bazant in explaining the collapse. His theory is crush-down, crush up. A theory devoid of any evidence, replication, and historical precedence.

    WTC 7 is so obviously a controlled demolition that even defenders of the official story don't like to mention it. NIST did finally admit that the tower did collapse for 2.25 seconds in full-free fall, contradicting their initial statement that WTC7 did not enter free-fall and there was resistance provided. So unless you believe in the feasibility of momentum transfer at free-fall acceleration the official account is toast.

    Rurik: "The most damning things are the way the BBC and other news outlets reported on the implosion of building seven before it happened."

    Yes, how did everyone know that WTC7 was coming down before it collapsed, but after it collapsed they didn't have any idea how it fell? How is it possible to have certain knowledge of an unprecedented before it happens, but be completely clueless afterwards ???
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  276. This Is Our Home [AKA "Robert Rediger"] says:
    @Rurik

    I especially wouldn’t have my hobo spies go on television and admit to it!
     
    but yet they did Robert

    and to Steve's point, if these guys were a joke, why did the FBI keep them for so long?

    are the FBI also "self-aggrandising liars and the obviously crazy"?

    .

    BTW. I posted a reply here to someone regarding the video of George Bush describing his reaction to seeing the FIRST plane hit the tower, but it wasn't published, so don't worry Robert, there is some censorship going on here ; )

    but yet they did Robert

    I take it you don’t have a second language.

    and to Steve’s point, if these guys were a joke, why did the FBI keep them for so long?

    Due diligence? Because they were art scamming criminals? Because they didn’t want to look easy on them? Because they were freaked out by the whole situation?

    All of these explanations are infinitely more plausible than your alternative.

    BTW. I posted a reply here to someone regarding the video of George Bush describing his reaction to seeing the FIRST plane hit the tower, but it wasn’t published, so don’t worry Robert, there is some censorship going on here ; )

    So they kept it up until you, brave Rurik, pointed it out on Unz.com? Surely you’re a troll, that is like a satire of paranoid schizophrenia.

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  277. @This Is Our Home

    first plane

    let that sink in for a minute

    ok
     

    I thought I saw footage of the first plane hitting the tower. No idea if I did, and although I was a child at the time I was more articulate than GWB.

    But anyway, as with all gotchas, the alternative to GWB making a mistake and confusing his words is that he decided to tell everyone he knew about 9/11. The latter is rather less likely.

    I just don't get why you can't work that out for yourself before you become the object of ridicule?

    It’s not like Manhattan on a sunny morning in 2001 didn’t have a lot of video cameras in random hands, such as tourists. A few cameras were pointed at the WTC. Here’s the first clip to come up on Google:

    Read More
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  278. D. K. says:
    @This Is Our Home
    Two Israel-based employees, in Israel(!), of a company which did not have an office in the towers received a message warning them of a terrorist attack on somewhere....that's not even a coincidence, it is entirely unrelated.

    http://www.911myths.com/index.php/Odigo

    This, below, is the entire Ha’aretz article, copy and pasted directly from its own Web site:

    ***

    Odigo, the instant messaging service, says that two of its workers received messages two hours before the Twin Towers attack on September 11 predicting the attack would happen, and the company has been cooperating with Israeli and American law enforcement, including the FBI, in trying to find the original sender of the message predicting the attack.

    Yuval Dror 26.09.2001 00:00 Updated: 12:43 AM

    Odigo, the instant messaging service, says that two of its workers received messages two hours before the Twin Towers attack on September 11 predicting the attack would happen, and the company has been cooperating with Israeli and American law enforcement, including the FBI, in trying to find the original sender of the message predicting the attack.

    Micha Macover, CEO of the company, said the two workers received the messages and immediately after the terror attack informed the company’s management, which immediately contacted the Israeli security services, which brought in the FBI.

    “I have no idea why the message was sent to these two workers, who don’t know the sender. It may just have been someone who was joking and turned out they accidentally got it right. And I don’t know if our information was useful in any of the arrests the FBI has made,” said Macover. Odigo is a U.S.-based company whose headquarters are in New York, with offices in Herzliya.

    As an instant messaging service, Odigo users are not limited to sending messages only to people on their “buddy” list, as is the case with ICQ, the other well-known Israeli instant messaging application.

    Odigo usually zealously protects the privacy of its registered users, said Macover, but in this case the company took the initiative to provide the law enforcement services with the originating Internet Presence address of the message, so the FBI could track down the Internet Service Provider, and the actual sender of the original message.

    http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/news/odigo-says-workers-were-warned-of-attack-1.70579

    ***

    Do you notice anything that has been added to the article, in the source that you cite? Should we trust your source, or the actual newspaper’s own Web site? If the warning was non-specific, and sent to employees in Israel, rather than to employees at the company’s New York headquarters, a stone’s throw from Ground Zero, why were they making such a fuss about it, both in Israel and in the United Sates, and why has the actual text of the message never been published, to squelch the rumors that nearby workers, in downtown Manhattan, had received such a warning, a couple of hours before the attacks on the World Trade Center Twin Towers? Why has the sender never been publicly identified, and his explanation for the message expounded? Even if the two Odigo employees who received the message were located in Israel– whether permanently or merely at the time– did the message, whatever it actually said, specify an attack in Israel, Manhattan, or nowhere in the world in particular?

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    • Replies: @D. K.
    I found this, putatively from The Washington Post, but not from its own Web site (as its archive, pre-2005, is pay-to-play):

    ***

    Newsbytes (The Washington Post)
    September 28, 2001


    An official at Odigo today made a more substantial comment on warnings the instant messaging firm received prior to the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks.

    The company's vice president of sales and marketing acknowledged that messages warning of attacks were received but would not comment on the contents of the messages. He had replied to a question about whether he could confirm that Odigo had received messages warning about the World Trade Center attacks. A sender in the alt.politics.bush newsgroup had written on Tuesday that Odigo workers received messages two hours before the Twin Towers attack on Sept. 11 predicting the attack would happen. The incident was also the subject of a report in the Ha'aretz daily newspaper in Israel, which on Wednesday quoted Odigo CEO Micha Macover as saying that "two workers received the messages predicting the attack would happen."

    Odigo Vice President of Sales and Marketing Alex Diamandis told Newsbytes Thursday that he could not comment on the text or origin of the message, but said that the sender of the instant message was not personally known to the Odigo employees. Even though the company usually protects the privacy of users, Odigo recorded the Internet protocol address of the message's sender to facilitate his or her identification, he said.

    The Odigo workers, based in the company's research and development and international sales office in Israel, were signed on to the same Odigo messaging server used by worldwide users of the company's free, Odigo-branded messaging software, Diamandis said today.

    Diamandis today in a telephone interview also said the warning message did not identify the World Trade Center as the attack target. Diamandis declined to reveal any other information contained in the message, including whether the warning named the targets for the attack.

    "Providing more details would only lead to more conjecture," he said.

    He did confirm that soon after the terrorist attacks on New York, the Odigo employees notified their management, who contacted Israeli security services. In turn, the FBI was informed of the instant-message warning.

    The Odigo service includes a feature called People Finder that allows users to seek out and contact others based on certain interests or demographics. Diamandis said Thursday that it was possible the attack warning was broadcast to other Odigo members, but the company has not received reports of other recipients of the message.

    In addition to operating its own messaging server network, Odigo has licensed its technology to over 100 service providers, portals, wireless carriers and corporations, according to the company.

    Odigo is at http//www.odigo.com .


    © 2001 The Washington Post Company

    ***

    Being an erstwhile attorney myself, rather than a marketing flack, I would take serious issue with Mr. Diamandis' flimsy claim that "[p]roviding more details would only lead to more conjecture." The opposite is infinitely closer to the truth....

    I also found this, from May 2002:

    ***

    Comverse, a supplier of software for multimedia-enhanced telecom services and a unit of Comverse Technology, Inc., has signed an agreement to acquire privately-held Odigo for $20 million in cash. Comverse already held a 12.4% interest in Odigo, and the two companies have been working closely together.

    “Comverse and Odigo have had a long standing-partnership and together have developed instant communications products and services that we have recently begun to offer to (telecom) operators around the world,” said Zeev Bregman, Comverse CEO. “This acquisition is consistent with our commitment to provide an open IP-based platform built upon technologies that allow us to deliver to operators a wide range of intelligent, multimodal communication services.”

    Odigo presently has millions of subscribers, many through licensing agreements with Prodigy, British Telecom and other companies.

    For quite some time Odigo has been focusing more on extending it’s messaging and presence capabilities to wireless networks. It appears that Comverse may have been the driving force in this strategy.

    What impact this aquisition has on the millions of existing Odigo users is unclear.

    [ http://bigblueball.com/discuss/topic/comverse-acquires-odigo/ ]

    ***

    Having read James Bamford's "The Shadow Factory" (2008), inter alia, I am fairly well aware of the role that Comverse plays in the surveilling of the American public....
    , @D. K.
    This is one of the links that supposedly debunks the Odigo warning(s) as just another "9/11 myth":

    http://www.fpp.co.uk/online/01/09/WTC_Odigo2.html

    Here is the addendum to that link:

    ***

    Addendum, Saturday, December 29, 2001:

    THE above text is retrieved from the Google.com cache. The CNN.com website has removed this story, which some people felt uncomfortable about. The CNN search engine still lists the article when the word odigo is searched for, but the article has gone. We shall preserve it permanently here.

    ***

    CNN, no doubt, simply has a lack of server space, and cannot afford to keep on-line copies of all of its own news stories, especially not all of those stories on ephemeral subjects like 9/11....
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  279. Rurik says:
    @This Is Our Home

    first plane

    let that sink in for a minute

    ok