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Vox: Should Rihanna Play Cleopatra?
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From Vox:

Almost all of the actresses who’ve played Cleopatra have been white. But was she?

Angelina Jolie and Lady Gaga are rumored to be contenders to play the queen in a new biopic.
By Nadra Nittle Jan 14, 2019, 6:20pm EST

Since meaty roles for women are still too few in Hollywood, landing the character could be the chance of a lifetime for any actress. But the Twitter debate about Cleopatra isn’t so much about which actress most resembles the ancient queen as whether a white woman should be playing her at all.

Historically, white actresses such as Claudette Colbert, Vivien Leigh, and, most famously, Elizabeth Taylor have portrayed Cleopatra. The thinking during Hollywood’s Golden Age seemed to be that kohl eyeliner and a black wig was all it took to transform any white woman into the Queen of the Nile.

… but the long history of shutting out actresses of color from contention has proven offensive to people of color who believe the queen was not white.

… Historians have long described Cleopatra as ethnically Greek, but during the past decade, that assumption has increasingly been called into question. …

Today, people who consider Cleopatra to be a woman of color have suggested performers as diverse as Jennifer Lopez, Priyanka Chopra, and Rihanna play the Egyptian ruler. …

So it’s disconcerting to see white women like Jolie and Gaga named as the sole contenders for the role, even if their participation in the project is just a rumor for now — especially given all of the discussions that have taken place about Hollywood’s whitewashing of history, be it in newer films like Gods of Egypt, Exodus, or The Prince of Persia, or in classics like Liz Taylor’s Cleopatra.

There really are a lot of people out there reading Vox who sincerely believe: “If Rihanna gets cast as Cleopatra, my life will be better.”

 
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  1. El Dato says:

    Whats the news on Angelina forcefully transgendering her biological kid? Did this endeavour meet with success?

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  2. Given that Gaga’s folks come from the part of Sicily that was heavily Greek, she’s probably the best match for Cleopatra.

  3. Tyrion 2 says:

    I think you’ll find, Steve, that her name wasn’t Cleopatra.

    She was a powerful, fierce, kickass Queen but “Cleopatra” literally means “Glory for her Father” (in Greek).

    I’m of the opinion that her “glory” was actually like her own. That’s good enough for me.

  4. …as diverse as Jennifer Lopez, Priyanka Chopra, and Rihanna…

    That is, a Spanish-Indio, an Indian Dravidian-Syriac-Punjabi or a West African-Irish woman should, ideally, play an ancient Greek.

    To diversity mongers, all non-whites are interchangeable. The lack of self-awareness is remarkable.

  5. Rihanna is an all-too-predictable casting choice.

    Why not show some real imagination and cast Mahershala Ali as Cleopatra?

    • Replies: @Pat Boyle
  6. Anonymous[116] • Disclaimer says:

    Cleopatra was of Greek descent, from Ptolemy, one of Alexander’s generals.

    • Replies: @njguy73
    , @banopus
  7. Tyrion 2 says:

    “If Rihanna gets cast as Cleopatra, my life will be better.”

    A lot of people think like this. It has a rationale. In the same way that a drop swells the ocean. Of course, a lot of other people recognise that a drop is a drop and the ocean is vast.

    In other words, slimming down, taking care of yourself, picking interesting clothes and so on, make a lot more difference than the photon of reflected glory one receives for having a part in a film played by someone with passably similar skin colouration to you.

    I find it sad. If a photon illuminates them, their existence must be pitch black.

    • Replies: @Anon
  8. Anon[366] • Disclaimer says:

    Ancient Macedonian is neither quite Greek, nor the modern Macedonian.

    Also, even if the unknown mother had African blood, it would have been Coptic, not black African. Coptics are classified with Caucasians in three- or five-race systems. They only end up in a separate race, still non-African, in the seven-race classification of Caucasion, Mongoloid, African, Native American, Melanesian-Australian Aborigine, Subcontinental Indian, and Middle Eastern. Coptics here would be Middle Eastern.

    These are modeern racial classifications done with clustering math on genome data.

  9. Gabourey Sidibe and Leslie Jones should have first choices.

  10. Waiting to find Arminius looked just like Shaka Zulu.

  11. Logan says:

    The supposed “contention” is based largely on a computer reconstruction of a skull found in what is now Turkey that the researchers believed was that of Cleopatra’s sister. They gave it African features, cornrows and dark brown skin.

    The number of fails here is astonishing. Just to start.

    We have no real evidence this skull is Arsinoe.

    You can’t get skin color or hair style from a skull.

    The researchers had every incentive in the world to produce an “African” image. A white image would have gotten no press at all. No career boost for anybody.

    We don’t even know whether Arsinoe and Cleopatra had the same mother.

  12. Paul says:

    Do Southern Europeans such as the Greek woman Cleopatra (with skin tones typically darker than that of Northern Europeans) now qualify as “people of color”? Should they qualify for affirmative action?

    Then give a Greek the role of Cleopatra.

  13. They really should outlaw ridiculous articles claiming that controversies exist based on some random complaints by attention seekers on Twitter.

    • Agree: E. Rekshun
    • LOL: Bill H
    • Replies: @Abe
  14. AndrewR says:

    These racial ratios imply that some Asian men and some black women are going to be out of luck, unless they want to try marrying each other (which, generally speaking, they don’t).”

    I actually am very well acquainted with a couple consisting of an ethnic Korean man [adopted by an American couple] and a big bootied mulatta. Both are attractive enough that their options probably weren’t very limited.

    Anyway, it’s funny they mention Leonor Varela as an example of a “diverse” actress, even though she seems to be 100% Spanish in ancestry. Another example of white Hispanic privilege in action…

    Personally I prefer maximal realism in films. If it can be clearly demonstrated that Cleopatra was part Nubian, find a Greek/Nubian actress to play her. The idea that JLo or Priyanka Chopra could play her is laughably absurd. Rihanna honestly wouldn’t be the worst choice, but she certainly doesn’t need the money. And frankly I don’t want to see her casted [cast?] because I’ve despised her ever since she expressed disappointment that George Zimmerman wasn’t convicted of murder after defending himself against St Skittles.

  15. Will Bey-Bey or Nikki Minaj allow it?

  16. Arclight says:

    “Historians have long described Cleopatra as ethnically Greek, but during the past decade, that assumption has increasingly been called into question” because people without much to point in the way of historical impact in the past wish things were different. Same thing with Alexander Hamilton…but in both cases, isn’t this cultural appropriation on a grand scale? The progressive left insists that Western civilization and history is not as important as we are taught, but I’d say their attempts to appropriate historical figures as their own is awfully revealing.

    • Replies: @Tyrion 2
  17. Of course, articles and arguments like this are never in good faith, they are just more proxies in the endless Jewish-backed Get Whitey conga line stretching to infinity.

    But a truly artistic casting decision would recognize that the salient feature about Cleopatra’s physical appearance was not her skin color, it was her large, strong nose. She was a powerful woman of great self-possession, and she looked the part. That was what made her attractive (a better word would be, irresistable. Which was her strategy.). In my view Gaga is the only serious choice (if you’re choosing among high-profile stars, that is.). That woman looks like she would push George Washington out of the boat, and cross the Delaware herself.

    The truth is, even in the unlikely event that Cleo was part North African Copt or Berber ( not Bantu in a bazillion years), she was backed by Greek power, surrounded by Greek Ptolemys, and had a Greco-Egyptian focus and worldview. You want a historical drama featuring strong, glorious POC women? Fine, dig up some fascinating POC history. I’ll wait.

    • Replies: @Anonymous Jew
  18. Is it an “assumption” that Cleopatra was Greek or is it a fact of history?

    • Replies: @anon1
    , @Jack D
  19. Tyrion 2 says:
    @Arclight

    This is one of the easier new rules. If they’re white they were bad, so if they were good they were of colour, and vice versa.

    E.g:

    If you want to honour Alexander Hamilton, you have to pretend he was of black. If you want to criticise Alexander Hamilton you must recognise he was white.

    • Replies: @Arclight
  20. ChrisZ says:
    @PiltdownMan

    Great point, Piltdown.

    That interchangeability is both a confirmation of Steve’s thesis about anti-White resentment being the KKKrazy Glue that bonds the fringes coalition, AND an indication that all this diversity nonsense might be a distraction that solidifies the authority of a more homogeneous ruling class.

  21. JimB says:

    Cleopatra had long Semitic nose.

    But Obama and the New York Times ushered in the post truth, post factual age so — Rihanna as Cleopatra, why not?

    Every black woman is as important and beautiful as she feels.

    • Replies: @syonredux
  22. Polynikes says:

    I don’t think people think their life will be better so much as they think that maybe they’re hurting you. The Man has never been cool….man.

  23. It doesn’t matter anyway.

    Next year we’ll be asking if Jaden smith should play Cleopatra and if Willow Smith should be playing Ptolemy.

  24. njguy73 says:
    @Anonymous

    Cleopatra was of Greek descent, from Ptolemy, one of Alexander’s generals.

    Two words: Jennifer. Aniston.

  25. njguy73 says:
    @TelfoedJohn

    No, have Gaga play Maria Gaetana Agnesi. It’ll be Hidden Figures for guidettes.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maria_Gaetana_Agnesi

  26. Yak-15 says:

    I mentioned this on an earlier thread but the busts that exist of Cleopatra were likely painted to reflect her skin/hair/eye color. The paint has mostly worn off but some of the pigments probably remain. Has anyone analyzed them?

  27. The only evidence offered for the Cleopatra-was-black claim was the supposed identification of the skeleton of Arsinoe, her sister, as having partially African traits. This is not a priori impossible: while the Ptolemies were Macedonian and famously incestuous, they did take concubines from outside Egypt, and some of the royals may have issues from those unions.

    But the consensus from historians (including very woke classicist Mary Beard) seems to be that the folks who dug up Arsinoe’s tomb in Ephesus waaay oversold their findings, and even if they were right we don’t know that Cleopatra and Arsinoe had the same mother. At any rate it’s amusing how quickly racial anthropology becomes valid if the upshot is politically useful.

  28. I read one time that if Blacks want that skanky, sluttish whore who slept with her battalions of “body” guards, let them have her. Maybe so.

  29. There really are a lot of people out there reading Vox …

    Really?

    I see an overlap between those who don’t read Vox and those who won’t go to see a black Cleopatra at the movies. I probably won’t go either way.

    I think they should cast this lady as Cleopatra, so long as she still looks like this:

    “She’s so high, high above me …
    She’s so high … like Cleopatra, Joan of Arc, or Aphrodite ..”

    Great guitar riff.

  30. The Ptolemies, the dynasty in which Cleopatra was one of a long line, were Greek. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ptolemaic_Kingdom

  31. Arclight says:
    @Tyrion 2

    It’s evidence of a deep seated sense of inferiority, I’d say. Western nations now have significant populations of people whose mother countries come up way short of their new host nations across a wide spectrum, and for those who don’t assimilate (as so many are encouraged not to) it’s got to be humiliating to be confronted with that on a daily basis even as you enjoy the benefits.

    Yet another reason to hit the pause button on immigration – it would force a lot of the current immigrant or first generation people to assimilate, whereas a steady influx of new arrivals gives people a chance to stay culturally separated from the majority of the population.

    • Agree: Ghost of Bull Moose
    • Replies: @Anon
    , @Reg Cæsar
    , @Kylie
  32. Anon[906] • Disclaimer says:

    She can play Umbrellatra

  33. George says:

    “Cleopatra as ethnically Greek”

    I am not sure if Greek is the right word, Hellenic might be the proper word. If I understand things right she appears to trace her ancestry to a General from inland areas of Hellenized Macedonia which would be in Bulgaria if things worked out differently in a few land battles. But then again Ibn Khaldun predicted that inland alpha males would take fancy coastal, Aegean, women as prizes once the overcame the soft coastal males.

  34. Cortes says:

    The laughs I’d enjoy seeing Rihanna play Cleopatra mean my life would be better.

  35. peterike says:

    Since meaty roles for women are still too few in Hollywood,

    Where does nonsense like this come from? It’s like all those complaints about not enough blacks in movies and TV, yet every single movie or TV show I watch has blacks ratcheted into it, whether it makes sense or not. How do these kinds of self-reinforcing lies get started? Does somebody just say, “hey, I’m going to complain about something that’s totally not true,” and then everyone else just piles on?

    It’s weird.

    • Replies: @songbird
  36. What about George Washington? He had to be black. Have you ever met a white guy named Washington? Every Washington I ever met was black so we should start depicting George as black, and make sure only black actors play him in productions. Or something….

    • Replies: @Jack D
  37. Chebyshev says:

    You know who would be perfect to play Cleopatra? Ariana Grande. She’s southern Italian and therefore Greek. And she’s hot right now.

    • Replies: @S. Anonyia
  38. Jimi says:

    But as Donna Zuckerberg teaches us the ancient Greeks were People of Color. So what does it matter if Cleopoatra was Greek or not?

    Seriously though portrayals of Cleopatra as a person of color isn’t exactly new. Traditionally Cleopatra has always been portrayed as a sultry women with dark features. In fact I speculate that Cleopatra may actually have been more “white” than she is portrayed in media.

    One continuing theme in the Marc Antony-Cleopatra love affair is to portray relationship as a metaphor for Western vs Eastern values. The rational, patriotic warrior Marc Antony fell to ruin because he let himself be subsumed by the values of the East: lust, luxury, vanity, royal decadence, etc. Casting Rihanna as Cleopatra with a white guy as Marc Antony is juts a continuation of this theme.

    • Replies: @Neil Templeton
  39. Racist history is only a thing because google won’t give whites credit for time travel for transporting blacks 50,000 years into the future. Both types of temporal confusion should be expected.

  40. Those who read only Vox would never know that 1) the claim that the remains found in Ephesus, Turkey, are those of Princess Arsinoe is really controversial among historians; 2) the remains were identified as part African not by DNA testing but because some people decided the skeleton, which is missing a skull, looks more African than European; 3) Arsinoe had a different mother than Cleopatra, so even if she was part-black that tells is nothing about Cleopatra. (Even those who claim Arsinoe was part-black accept that her, and Cleoptra’s, father was white.

  41. songbird says:

    People will laugh at me, but I never even realized Jolie was white. I knew her father was, but her face always seemed exotic. I thought she was like a quarter Cambodian or something. She’s always had weird lips – if they are natural.

    • Replies: @Bubba
  42. Aardvark says:

    For the sake of true diversity and inclusion, all future Cleopatra’s must be played by someone fully sub-Saharan or perhaps east Asian. There…
    No chance in hell she was ever white even if she had came from Greece.

  43. black sea says:

    Is RuPaul is too old for the role?

    • Replies: @Anon
  44. Pat Boyle says:
    @Richard of Melbourne

    Why not be more imaginative yet and cast Joe Pesci or Danny DeVito as Cleopatra. If you’re going to ignore history and reason and award roles as a reward for group victim-hood why not do something for Hollywood male stars who are short. Surely that’s more damaging than any “previous condition of servitude”.

    About one third of the domestic federal budget is devoted to helping Negroes but there are hardly any welfare state programs to succor the vertically challenged.

  45. Dante says:

    Just another failed attempt by out of touch libs to write Europeans out of our own history, Everyone knows Cleopatra was white, She was of Greek descent.
    Fortunately the left will eat itself in due course.

  46. Rihanna is from Barbados and she really likes beer, that’s something in her favor.

    A good amount of Americans from the South have ancestors who came from Barbados.

    Best display of this mulatto-looking woman’s many charms was from a French magazine named Lui.

    Rihanna has more English ancestry than Charles Schumer, Jared Kushner, Sheldon Adelson, Paul Singer or Norman Braman.

    I like Rihanna better than Schumer, Kushner, Adelson, Singer or Braman.

    • Replies: @ricpic
  47. @PiltdownMan

    Their Pantheon’s filled with blank niches;
    So stuff them with Ptolemy bitches,
    Augustine, and Camus —
    Throw in Ian Smith, too —
    That Wakandans may gape at their riches.

    • LOL: reactionry
  48. Abe says:
    @william munny

    They really should outlaw ridiculous articles claiming that controversies exist based on some random complaints by attention seekers on Twitter.

    I don’t think people appreciate the structural changes that have taken place in journalism, even at elite papers like NYT or WaPo. Whereas in the past very large subscriber and ad revenue streams could support a permanent reporter desk in, say, Jakarta, now they have to abide with reporters assigned to the ‘Twitter desk ‘ and the ‘Facebook desk’. And since reporting on their own trending news stories is still too self-referential, they end up reporting dumb, autochthonous social media sh!t-storms like this instead. Sic gloria transit!

    • Replies: @Lurker
  49. Anon[164] • Disclaimer says:
    @Tyrion 2

    I don’t know about a movie, but I can imagine that real life relationships can set a precedent that is genuinely helpful.

    Imagine a white guy from a classy family brings home a black girl, and his mom says “She’s very nice dear, but, well, You Know.” Thanks to Megan Markle, he can now say, “No I don’t know, mom, and neither does THE QUEEN OF ENGLAND!”

    The mom is much more likely to wilt and give her blessing. Which the guy can predict, which means he’s much more likely to ask out the black girl in the first place. If you’re an upper middle class black girl who likes classy white guys, this could make a big difference to your life.

    • Replies: @Tyrion 2
  50. PSR says:

    There are also a lot of Vox readers who in their quiet little hearts thank God for living in a “white society.”

  51. Art Deco says:

    About one third of the domestic federal budget is devoted to helping Negroes but there are hardly any welfare state programs to succor the vertically challenged.

    The Equal Employment Opportunity Commission, the Civil Rights Division at the Department of Justice, and the Office for Civil Rights at the Education Department are consuming 1/3 of the federal budget?

  52. gregor says:

    The article has one ten year old link to support its claims. I’m guessing that was the best they could find on Google. The argument is that while Cleopatra’s father was Greek, her mother could have possibly been African (and therefore Bantu) because there’s a tomb that might be Cleopatra’s sister who someone claims was African even though they don’t have a skull or any other basis for such a conclusion. One jump after another to get to the desired conclusion.

    Mary Beard (the lady that defended the BBC’s propagandistic portrayal of blacks in Roman Britain as “accurate”) isn’t even buying this.

    https://www.the-tls.co.uk/the-skeleton-of-cleopatras-sister-steady-on/

    • Replies: @Buffalo Joe
  53. Cleopatra’s main achievements were sleeping with foreign generals and murdering her relatives, including her brother.

    But maybe in the new version she can #metoo Julius Caesar and get him fired.

    • LOL: Achmed E. Newman
  54. benjaminl says:

    Longtime readers will of course be familiar with Sailer’s First Law of Female Journalism (2009):

    https://www.unz.com/isteve/sailers-law-of-female-journalism/

    But it’s worth explicitly footnoting, just in case.

  55. Spangel says:

    Rihanna isn’t even an actress. I might understand using an Egyptian actress for cleopatra but whatever cleopatra was, she wasn’t at all what prianka chopra is. Wikipedia says that cleopatra was descended from a Macedonian Greek general. She might have been part ancient Egyptian, but she wasn’t black and she wasnt Puerto Rican.

    Why not have Rihanna play Mulan at this point. In fact, queen Isabella of Spain was probably of moorish descent according to these people so let’s have janelle monae or Sandra oh play her from now on.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    , @Anonymous
  56. That Cleopatra was Greek is not an “assumption,” it’s a fact

    • Replies: @George
  57. syonredux says:

    Might as well repost my thoughts on the matter:

    Almost all of the actresses who’ve played Cleopatra have been white. But was she?

    What did Cleopatra look like? A debate about the last real ruler of Egypt’s Ptolemaic Kingdom has raged all day on Twitter in light of reports that Lady Gaga and Angelina Jolie are competing to play the ancient monarch in a blockbuster biopic from Sony. While IMDb lists a Cleopatra film as being in development, for now it’s just conjecture that Jolie, who played the Queen of Macedonia in 2004’s Alexander, is going head to head with Gaga over the role.

    Historically, white actresses such as Claudette Colbert, Vivien Leigh, and, most famously, Elizabeth Taylor have portrayed Cleopatra. The thinking during Hollywood’s Golden Age seemed to be that kohl eyeliner and a black wig was all it took to transform any white woman into the Queen of the Nile.

    Yep, Colbert and Taylor were just average, run-of-the-mill White women…..Just go down to any post office…..

    In 1999, when Chilean actress Leonor Varela stepped into the role for a television miniseries, her casting marked a slight amount of progress, but Varela’s version of Cleopatra has largely been forgotten two decades later.

    Whatever you say, darling….

    Historians have long described Cleopatra as ethnically Greek.

    More like ethnically Macedonian…..

    but during the past decade, that assumption has increasingly been called into question. In 2009, a team of archaeologists found the remains of a woman they believed to be Princess Arsinoe,

    So, unconfirmed.

    Cleopatra’s sister. The researchers believe Arsinoe’s remains, found in Ephesus, Turkey,

    Which, again, might not be her remains (see above)

    indicate that her mother (also likely Cleopatra’s)

    Again, lot of uncertainty here…

    was African

    And here we go again. What do you mean by “African?” North African caucasoid, like the Berbers?Or Black African?

    “That Arsinoe had an African mother is a real sensation which leads to a new insight on Cleopatra’s family and the relationship of the sisters Cleopatra and Arsinoe,” Hilke Thuer of the Austrian Academy of Sciences, who made the discovery, said at the time.

    Still no clarity on what is meant by “African.”

    A year before the discovery of Arsinoe’s remains, Egyptologist Sally Ann Ashton, then a senior assistant keeper at the Fitzwilliam Museum, made headlines with her 3D computer animated image of Cleopatra. That’s because the image did not depict Cleopatra as a white woman but as a brown-skinned woman with cornrows. Ashton and her team used forensics to create the groundbreaking image of the ancient monarch.

    What kind of forensics? You know, seeing as how we don’t have Cleopatra’s skull and skeleton…

    “She probably wasn’t just completely European,” Ashton remarked at the time.

    Again, note the “probably.” And not being completely European does not equal being part Black. She could have been part native Egyptian:

    “You’ve got to remember that her family had actually lived in Egypt for 300 years by the time she came to power.”

    Of course, the Ptolemies were known for their heroic efforts to keep the blood-line pure…..

    Today, people who consider Cleopatra to be a woman of color have suggested performers as diverse as Jennifer Lopez, Priyanka Chopra, and Rihanna play the Egyptian ruler.

    So, Ptolemaic Egypt had Mestizos……and South Asians…..

    If Egyptologists doubt that the Queen of the Nile had solely white ancestry, then the idea that she was mixed-race and that an actress of color could realistically portray her shouldn’t be a controversial idea in the year 2019.

    Whatever makes you feel prettier, sweetie….

    • Agree: Song For the Deaf
    • Replies: @syonredux
    , @Truth
    , @ChrisZ
  58. DFH says:
    @benjaminl

    Dravidian or East African?

  59. syonredux says:
    @syonredux

    And here’s a Classicist on the whole Arsenoe business:

    The Thür mentioned is Hilke Thür of the Austrian Academy of Sciences. The tomb in question is actually in Ephesus and we know that Arsinoe was actually killed there at Cleopatra’s request and on Marcus Antonius’ orders. The identification of the tomb as belonging to Arsinoe seems reasonable (if not exactly secure) enough.

    The headlines of both the Telegraph (“Cleopatra had African ancestry, skeleton suggests”) and the AFP coverage (“Cleopatra ‘was part-African’”) show the leap the press is taking with this one, despite the fact that we are not entirely sure who Cleopatra’s mother was (she is not named in any Classical source as far as I’m aware and the suggestion that it was Cleopatra V (Arsinoe’s mother) is a long-standing conjecture) — she and Arsinoe did not necessarily have the same mother. But beyond that, we get this skull business and having Arsinoe’s ethnicity actually being determined from a reconstructed skull based on measurements taken in the 1920s? Although I fear being labelled as one having the “brainpan of a stagecoach tilter”, can there not be some actual DNA tests on the skeletal material? Was it even suggested? I think the jury’s still very much out on this one …

    https://rogueclassicism.com/2009/03/15/cleopatra-arsinoe-and-the-implications/

  60. Truth says:
    @Art Deco

    LOL, Pat is, well, special…

  61. Truth says:
    @syonredux

    You seem quite invested in this, Old Sport.

    I’m glad you’ve found a worthwhile Cause célèbre to match your towering intellect.

    • Replies: @syonredux
    , @Anonymous
  62. syonredux says:
    @syonredux

    Caroline Wilkinson, a forensic anthropologist, reconstructed the missing skull based on measurements taken in the 1920s. Using computer technology it was possible to create a facial impression of what Arsinöe might have looked like.

    “It has got this long head shape,” said Wilkinson. “That’s something you see quite frequently in ancient Egyptians and black Africans. It could suggest a mixture of ancestry.”

    So, basically it comes down to a computer reconstruction of a lost skull using some measurements that were made in the ’20s…..And a lot of emphasis is being placed on the fact that the skull was long….It’s all rather thin, if you ask me…

    https://rogueclassicism.com/2009/03/15/cleopatra-arsinoe-and-the-implications/

    • Replies: @Pheasant
    , @Jack D
    , @Anonymous
  63. @TelfoedJohn

    agree–and it is speculated that Cleopatra, like LG, was no beauty

    • Replies: @jim jones
  64. Sung to the tune of “Rhiannon”:

    Rihanna is an ugly dame
    From the island of Barbados;
    But “Satan ought to be her name”
    (The words are Ernie K. Doe’s).

    [Chorus]
    All my life I’ve never seen a star
    Ugly as Rihanna,
    Not excepting the Roseannes Barr
    And Roseannadanna
    And Roseannadanna

    Rihanna has a forehead that’s
    More like a five- or six-head.
    Her head requires tall pointy hats,
    Just like a pen by Bic’s head.

    [Chorus]
    All my life etc.

  65. @benjaminl

    Nice, petite figure, pretty good skin, and an average face, no real physical issues here.

    Must have an awful personality if she’s unable to secure the attention she craves.

  66. Anonymous[430] • Disclaimer says:

    https://www.livescience.com/27459-cleopatra-sister-discovery-controversy.html

    “A Viennese archaeologist lecturing in North Carolina this week claims to have identified the bones of Cleopatra’s murdered sister or half-sister. But not everyone is convinced.

    That’s because the evidence linking the bones, discovered in an ancient Greek city, to Cleopatra’s sibling Arsinoe IV is largely circumstantial. A DNA test was attempted, said Hilke Thur, an archaeologist at the Austrian Academy of Sciences and a former director of excavations at the site where the bones were found. However, the 2,000-year-old bones had been moved and handled too many times to get uncontaminated results.

    “It didn’t bring the results we hoped to find,” Thur told the Charlotte News-Observer.”

    Okay, there is no DNA evidence that the remains of Cleopatra’s sister, Arsinoe, have been discovered. Yet this is the scientific cornerstone of Nadra Nittle’s (seriously?) argument that a white woman should not play the part of Cleopatra.

  67. bomag says:
    @Art Deco

    About one third of the domestic federal budget is devoted to helping Negroes

    Hmmm. Might take some creative accounting to reach this.

    I’m guessing that of the transfer payment programs, one third or so of the recipients are Black.

    • Replies: @Art Deco
  68. JimB says:

    From Live Science

    “A Viennese archaeologist lecturing in North Carolina this week claims to have identified the bones of Cleopatra’s murdered sister or half-sister. But not everyone is convinced.

    That’s because the evidence linking the bones, discovered in an ancient Greek city, to Cleopatra’s sibling Arsinoe IV is largely circumstantial. A DNA test was attempted, said Hilke Thur, an archaeologist at the Austrian Academy of Sciences and a former director of excavations at the site where the bones were found. However, the 2,000-year-old bones had been moved and handled too many times to get uncontaminated results.

    “It didn’t bring the results we hoped to find,” Thur told the Charlotte News-Observer.”

    Got confirmation bias?

    So this is the scientific cornerstone of Nadra Nittle’s argument that a Becky should not play Cleopatra. What a maroon.

  69. If they want an African actress to play Cleopatra, how about Charlize Theron?

    • LOL: Thea
  70. “Historians have long described Cleopatra as ethnically Greek, but during the past decade, that assumption has increasingly been called into question. …”

    Citations please, Ms. Nittle? Which “historians”? When, besides “the past decade?” Based upon what evidence? In so far as I am aware, Cleo was GREEK, the daughter of one of the Ptolemys , who were the successors to Alexander of Macedon.

  71. There really are a lot of people out there reading Vox who sincerely believe: “If Rihanna gets cast as Cleopatra, my life will be better.”

    Rihanna herself is too white. Who’s the Generation Ψ equivalent of the very African-looking Whoopi Goldberg?

    And why always a thin woman? Why not Gabourey Sidibe?

    • LOL: BB753
    • Replies: @Pheasant
    , @Buffalo Joe
  72. So I assume that anyone who wishes to address this “journalist’s” theories will find her organizing the picket line outside of ‘Hamilton’?

  73. ptol says:

    It’s pretty funny to make a colonizer black. Who’s next? Cecil Rhodes? Leopold II?

    It’s one thing to make northern Hamilton black, but isn’t it playing with fire to make plantation owners Washington and Jefferson black?

  74. syonredux says:
    @Truth

    You seem quite invested in this, Old Sport.

    Minimal effort is always attractive…..

    I’m glad you’ve found a worthwhile Cause célèbre to match your towering intellect.

    More like playing tic-tac-toe…..childish amusement to divert the mind from weightier things….

  75. Paul says:

    Only somebody engaged in fat shaming could object to her!

  76. Anon[277] • Disclaimer says:
    @Arclight

    “Yet another reason to hit the pause button on immigration – it would force a lot of the current immigrant or first generation people to assimilate, whereas a steady influx of new arrivals gives people a chance to stay culturally separated from the majority of the population.”

    True. But also: immigration comes from nearby countries (Mexico!) or easily returnable for visits via air travel. Once here, even smaller groups can set up their own media (Univision eg), newspapers, etc., send money back via wire, etc. No need to assimilate at all.

  77. Anon[277] • Disclaimer says:
    @black sea

    Now that would be awesome.

  78. @Arclight

    Yet another reason to hit the pause button on immigration – it would force a lot of the current immigrant or first generation people to assimilate…

    You want them to assimilate? That’s frightening in itself.

    And what’s t0 stop them from assimilating us?

    • Agree: Kylie
  79. Kyle says:

    I vote for lady Gaga she’s way hotter than the other two. She’s a handsome woman with a killer body. Outlandish makeup and dress is her style. She’s also very cool, she writes some of her music. She also does not alienate potential fans with overtly divisive politics. All around she’s a pretty cool chick.

  80. Kylie says:
    @Arclight

    “It’s evidence of a deep seated sense of inferiority, I’d say. Western nations now have significant populations of people whose mother countries come up way short of their new host nations across a wide spectrum, and for those who don’t assimilate (as so many are encouraged not to) it’s got to be humiliating to be confronted with that on a daily basis even as you enjoy the benefits.”

    Maybe for non-blacks. But blacks have a deep-seated sense of superiority. Their resentment of whites is based not on feeling humiliated by the daily proof of their inferiority but on feeling cheated out of their just due. They really believe all that crap about whites stealing their culture (“Elvis stole our music” ). Generally speaking, they lack the intelligence even ti realize how much intelligence they lack. This makes them very difficult to deal with and impossible for them fully to assimilate. Then again, no sane white society would be interested in that.

    • Agree: Song For the Deaf
    • Replies: @Song For the Deaf
  81. George says:
    @Eric Ruttencutter

    “That Cleopatra was Greek is not an “assumption,” it’s a fact” It is more complicated as current and ancient Greece are different.

    Cleopatra might have been Balkan like ancient Bulgarians. But it is possible her Macedonian ancestry was as a Hellenized Persian.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hellenization
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macedonia_(ancient_kingdom)#Early_history_and_legend

    Macedonia as part of the Persian Empire

    Although Persian rule in the Balkans was overthrown following the failure of Xerxes’ invasion of Greece, the Macedonians (and Thracians) borrowed heavily from the Achaemenid Persian traditions, culture and economy during the fifth to mid fourth centuries BC.[16] Some artefacts, excavated at Sindos and Vergina may be considered as influenced by Persian culture, or even imported from Persia in the late sixth and early fifth centuries BC.[16]

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Achaemenid_Macedonia

    As a minor note, Rhianna has star quality, so why not have her play Cleopatra.

  82. istevefan says:

    Historians have long described Cleopatra as ethnically Greek, but during the past decade, that assumption has increasingly been called into question.

    Define increasingly? For example, has one historian worldwide begun to challenge this assumption? Has it been two, four, eight? Better yet, what percentage of people in that area have challenged this assumption?

    You will note that one could write that Dr. Watson has challenged an assumption in his field. So that too would imply that the assumption he was challenging was being increasingly challenged given the fact he was challenging it. Yet his challenge was not only dismissed, he has been ceremoniously drummed out of polite society for making his challenge.

    Why then should we take these contrarians on Cleopatra seriously? Do they represent anything close to a majority?

    • Replies: @Kylie
    , @Anonymous
  83. Kylie says:
    @istevefan

    “Why then should we take these contrarians on Cleopatra seriously?”

    We don’t have to take them seriously. But the fact that they are influential is something we should take very seriously.

    “Do they represent anything close to a majority?”

    They don’t have to. See the preceding.

  84. Anonymous[354] • Disclaimer says:
    @PiltdownMan

    Chopra’s publicists really put in the overtime. Haven’t seen such four-quadrant moxie since Madonna’s “Blond Ambition” phase

  85. Jack D says:

    Here is a bust of Cleopatra made during her lifetime:

    And here is a Roman portrait of her from Pompeii, with her baby:

    She sure don’t look like no woman of color.

    • Replies: @Buffalo Joe
  86. jim jones says:
    @Meretricious

    A good arse beats a good face is the famous saying

  87. Is there some reason we can’t have Laverne Cox play this role? Transphobic much?

    • LOL: Corn
  88. Cleopatra wasn’t ethnically Greek, btw. As Steve already knows, she came from a centuries-long line of mindblowingly inbred Macedonians.

  89. Anonymous[299] • Disclaimer says:
    @Truth

    Coming from you?

    LOL

    I can see he hit a sore spot

  90. Whoever plays the lead, the choice for soundtrack is obvious:

  91. Jack D says:
    @PiltdownMan

    There are only two categories – white (bad) and not-white (good). Since Cleopatra is not-white, she must be played by a fellow not-white. This compensates somewhat for the many decades in which Hollywood used white actors to portray not-whites and helps to right the scales of cosmic justice. Hollywood insulted our intelligence for decades by having Charlie Chan played by a Swedish white guy so now to even the score they must insult our intelligence for the NEXT 7 decades by having Cleopatra played by a Puerto Rican.

    • LOL: AndrewR
  92. Anonymous[257] • Disclaimer says: • Website
    @Art Deco

    From what I can see, the entire veterans administration hires nothing but affirmative action American blacks and foreign Indian Drs.

    I know it cares for injured combat vets but it’s hospitals are a blight on every neighborhood because of the deranged black vets coming and going from the VA hospitals. What is it about spending 3 or 4 years lounging around a warehouse stealing, doing drugs and harassing the women that turns black soldiers deranged useless eaters?

    There might be some Whites employed or cared for by the VA, but from the prospective of a neighbor, it’s just another all black government institution.

    • Replies: @Truth
  93. Pheasant says:
    @syonredux

    ‘And a lot of emphasis is being placed on the fact that the skull was long’

    A long midfacial section can often be a sign of African (sub saharan) admixture. To be honest when they recreated Cleopatra as a black woman the only thing that was plausible to me was the length of the face, everything else….

  94. Jack D says:
    @Spangel

    I might understand using an Egyptian actress for cleopatra

    The current population of Egypt doesn’t look much like Cleopatra. In fact the ANCIENT population of Egypt didn’t either, since the royal house of Egypt in that dynasty was Greek. It is very common for royalty to be of a different ethnic group than the people that they rule.

  95. Pheasant says:
    @Reg Cæsar

    ‘Rihanna herself is too white’

    She was called White and bullied at school in Barbados for being of a lighter skin colour even though her father is part Irsh going back hundreds of years. Just like in America the blacks that the media put for as typical are often heavily intermixed with White genes.

  96. Anonymous[257] • Disclaimer says: • Website

    Angelina Jolie would be perfect. She comes off as arrogant which is perfect for a queen her face is neither ugly nor Barbie doll perfect big eyes men consider her sexy she looks great in any type of clothes. She’s my choice.

    I probably wouldn’t go to see the movie as I’ve seen too many of them. What I would like is to see her as a teen murdering her brother and sister instead of the Cesar / Antony relationships. I’ve always liked the sword and sandal epics

    The Liz Taylor Cleopatra was ruined by Burton’s acting style; just standing around doing Shakespearean style monologues in his artificial royal academy of dramatic arts English accent.

    • Replies: @S. Anonyia
  97. Everyone’s whatever ethnicity or sex or height or weight they say they are. If they aren’t, it’s because they are ‘trapped’ in the wrong body.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2019/01/16/rep-ed-case-said-hes-an-asian-trapped-white-body-his-apology-didnt-help/?utm_term=.e1b09fe3a2d5

    Poor bastard. He can’t help that he was born white.

  98. Anonymous[257] • Disclaimer says: • Website

    Rihanna would be fine if she can act as she can pass for White. Lopez is stereotypical American Hispanic looking. Plus she’s type cast in fluffy romantic comedies. I can’t see audiences accepting Ms cute and spunky as a powerful Queen.

  99. Jack D says:
    @syonredux

    When it is not in the Left’s interest (see Gould) they laugh at skull measurement. But when it supports their position, then it is science.

    Here is sis’s image.

    And here is a picture of Jesus that has the same level of validity and scientific backing.

    One is from the old religion and one is from the new.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    , @Truth
  100. Lot says:

    Krikorian’s CIS files a RICO lawsuit against two SPLC employees over their “hategroup” scam. WaPo gives him an oped to explain it. I think the center-left establishment is getting a little tired of the race-left’s excesses.

    https://cis.org/Press-Release/CIS-RICO-Lawsuit-SPLC

    It appears that all three of Mark’s lawyers are jewish. Julie Axelrod, CIS’s in-house counsel, plus two specialists from Chicago.

    Case was filed in DC federal court, which is turning into a conservative bastion with Trump judges.

    The Chicago lawyers are also suing Fusion GPS over smearing a whistleblower. Fusion is the same group Hillary paid to create the “Steele Dossier” against Trump.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  101. The littlest one in our house watches Sesame Street.

    On Sesame Street there is a black girl puppet who sings about how great her nappy hair is, and how much she loves it. Then they have another song where various adults describe the various brown shades of their skin, how beautiful they are, and how much they love their brown skin.

    Our little girl dances around at these songs, in spite of her pale skin and wavy hair. Oblivious.

    I don’t have the heart to tell her that those songs aren’t for her.

    It’s bizarre, the constant self-affirmation about their gd hair and skin color. Methinks they doth celebrate too much. Lots of things are brown, not just ‘caramel,’ ‘chocolate,’ ‘mahogany,’ etc.

    • Replies: @The Wild Geese Howard
  102. anon[427] • Disclaimer says:

    Can anyone picture Rihanna playing Queen Victoria or Anna Karenina? Me neither. Let her play Cleopatra. She’ll be a fine choice.

    • Replies: @Brás Cubas
  103. @the one they call Desanex

    For those not familiar with Ernest Kador, a. k. a. Ernie K. Doe:

  104. Anonymous[257] • Disclaimer says: • Website
    @istevefan

    That Cleopatra and before her the ancient Egyptians were black is 100 years old. Du Bois claimed that. 50 years ago it was being taught in schools and has been ever since in black schools during a black history month.

    Then there’s the Black Athena series by Jewish Cornell professor Martin Bernal in 1987 1991 and 2006. He claims that the ancient Egyptians Mesopotamians Anatolians and others were black Africans and that Greece and Rome and this European civilization owe everything to these black Africans

    Some black historians even claim that blacks migrated somehow to ancient China and became the Emperors scholars and engineers.

    • Replies: @syonredux
    , @Corn
  105. @Art Deco

    Are you a retired bureaucrat? Who is Jack Chiclets?

  106. Anonymous[257] • Disclaimer says: • Website
    @Lot

    Wonderful news, thanks.

  107. istevefan says:
    @syonredux

    The headlines of both the Telegraph (“Cleopatra had African ancestry, skeleton suggests”) and the AFP coverage (“Cleopatra ‘was part-African’”)

    So by the skeleton they can tell she had African ancestry. So are they admitting different peoples are in fact different?

  108. KunioKun says:

    The new trilogy of books on the Seleukid empire from John D. Granger is excellent. Lots of Cleopatras in that. If there is one constant theme with the Ptolemic dynasty, it is that the royalty loved to marry siblings. The only exceptions being when they handed out a few Ptolemic princesses here and there to the other neighboring kingdoms that were leftover after Alexander.

    The only reason anybody takes any of this “We Was Kangz” stuff seriously is because hardly anybody knows anything about history beyond what they see on TV, which is almost certainly wrong. The fact that that Zuckerberg woman is panicking that evil white men are reading more history is refreshing.

    • Replies: @songbird
  109. Anonymous[257] • Disclaimer says: • Website
    @Jack D

    He looks like Nicole Kidman’s twin. Those European artists used European models.

  110. Anonymous[257] • Disclaimer says: • Website
    @syonredux

    Kim Kardashian has a long skull or at least a long narrow face. So does Jerry Seinfeld. So do I and my children

    Iraqi Jewish ancestors, half Armenian half British, British French Swiss German, we all have long narrow faces and presumably long narrow skulls.

    The long narrow face is very Scots. My sons look like Andrew Jackson.

  111. Anonymous[257] • Disclaimer says: • Website
    @syonredux

    Would Arsinoe even have a tomb? From what I remember she was executed by the Romans to prevent any rebellion against Cleopatra Wouldn’t she just have been quickly buried as enemies usually are?

    The Romans executed their enemies. I don’t recall any tombs of their other defeated enemy leaders .

    • Replies: @FPD72
  112. @PiltdownMan

    Pilt, Well, if you need a singer of color to play the role of Cleopatra, I nominate Moms Mabley.

    • Replies: @Truth
  113. Anonymous[257] • Disclaimer says: • Website
    @Spangel

    Isabella’s daughters were redheads.

  114. Anonymous[257] • Disclaimer says: • Website
    @TelfoedJohn

    Shes got the Cleopatra nose.

  115. peterAUS says:

    Should Rihanna Play Cleopatra?

    Of course.

    If David Gyasi can play Achilles in the “Troy: Fall of a City” all is possible.

    You guys write as from Mars (or pick up a planet). Falling behind the program, for miles.

    I am waiting for a Negro transsexual to play Ogami Itto, soon. Or…pick anything.

    You should’ve realized by now that “progs” simply don’t, CAN’T, have limits.
    A couple of years ago it was funny. Then weird. At this stage it’s getting bizarre.

    I am absolutely positive, if not checked in time, it will get dangerous.

  116. syonredux says:

    The WIKIPEDIA article on Cleopatra’s ancestry is surprisingly non-pozzed:

    Cleopatra belonged to the Macedonian Greek dynasty of the Ptolemies,[10][485][486][note 74] their European origins tracing back to northern Greece.[487] Through her father, Ptolemy XII Auletes, she was a descendant of two prominent companions of Alexander the Great of Macedon: the general Ptolemy I Soter, founder of the Ptolemaic Kingdom of Egypt, and Seleucus I Nicator, the Macedonian Greek founder of the Seleucid Empire of West Asia.[10][488][489][note 75] While Cleopatra’s paternal line can be traced through her father, the identity of her mother is unknown.[490][491][492][note 76] She was presumably the daughter of Cleopatra VI Tryphaena (also known as Cleopatra V Tryphaena),[note 3] the cousin-wife[493] or sister-wife of Ptolemy XII.[15][491][494][note 77]

    Cleopatra I Syra was the only member of the Ptolemaic dynasty known for certain to have introduced some non-Greek ancestry, being a descendant of Apama, the Sogdian Persian wife of Seleucus I.[495][496][note 78] It is generally believed that the Ptolemies did not intermarry with native Egyptians.[44][497][note 79] Michael Grant asserts that there is only one known Egyptian mistress of a Ptolemy and no known Egyptian wife of a Ptolemy, further arguing that Cleopatra probably did not have any Egyptian ancestry and “would have described herself as Greek.”[495][note 80] Stacy Schiff writes that Cleopatra was a Macedonian Greek with some Persian ancestry, arguing that it was rare for the Ptolemies to have an Egyptian mistress.[498][note 81] Duane W. Roller speculates that Cleopatra could have been the daughter of a half-Macedonian-Greek, half-Egyptian woman belonging to a family of priests dedicated to Ptah (a hypothesis not generally accepted in scholarship about Cleopatra),[note 82] but contends that whatever Cleopatra’s ancestry, she valued her Greek Ptolemaic heritage the most.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cleopatra#Ancestry

    So, there you go…..the only verified non-European ancestry is an insignificant amount of Persian

    • Replies: @PiltdownMan
  117. @Reg Cæsar

    Reg, Let’s give an non actress sista a break…Serena Williams.

  118. @Jack D

    Jack, Wow, the bust of Cleo looks like a young Ruth Bader Ginsburg… could Cleo have been Jewish?

  119. Anonymous[257] • Disclaimer says: • Website
    @El Dato

    Angelina’s always very ahead of the fashions. She claimed Shiloh was a boy in a girls body when the kid was only 3.

    Even better, trans is usually man to woman. So Shiloh will be even more special when she gets some grafts or silicon parts.

    • Replies: @Father O'Hara
  120. Art Deco says:
    @bomag

    About 1/3 of the TANF recipients are black. That’s a contextually small program. SSI recipients are about 21% black. Social Security Disability, about 13% black (IIRC). Social Security Old Age, about 8.5%.

    • Replies: @bomag
  121. Joe Joe says:

    The obvious choice to play Cleopatra is Jaye Davidson. He played a woman in The Crying Game and an Egyptian god in Stargate!

  122. austin says:

    I saw Rhianna in Ocean’s 8 and she cannot act at all

    • Replies: @Daniel H
  123. Why go half way? To satisfy all of the aggrieved shouldn’t the casting agent head to Egypt and find there leading lady there?

  124. El Dato says:
    @syonredux

    LOLNO!

    Next up: Atlantis was actually a Black Country with Nuclear Technology and UFOs about 5000 BC at least.

  125. JimDandy says:

    That broad from My Big Fat Greek Wedding should play her.

  126. But blacks have a deep-seated sense of superiority. Their resentment of whites is based not on feeling humiliated by the daily proof of their inferiority but on feeling cheated out of their just due.

    There are a lot of Muslims walking around with a similar chip on their shoulder. Heck, many imams encourage this belief.

    Couple that with their inherent belief they are superior to the infidel simply for believing in Islam and it’s no wonder this group has a serious problem with violence and terrorism.

  127. @Ghost of Bull Moose

    It’s bizarre, the constant self-affirmation about their gd hair and skin color. Methinks they doth celebrate too much. Lots of things are brown, not just ‘caramel,’ ‘chocolate,’ ‘mahogany,’ etc.

    All part and parcel of the glorious Coudenhove-Kalergi plan, my friend.

    This is why the media is furiously trying to place so many carmelitas and mulattas in the public eye, particularly in the realms of film and popular music.

    Although, on the other side of the ethnicity fence, the media is going to deliver the very blonde Brie Larson to us as the ultimate Mary Sue in the Marvel films Captain Marvel and Avengers: Endgame.

    • Replies: @Ghost of Bull Moose
  128. Who cares about Rihanna, the real question for today is whether Heisman Trophy winner Kyler Murray should play professional football or baseball.

    WSJ, 01/15/19 – MLB Wants Kyler Murray. But He May Want the NFL.

    https://outline.com/vpRGmT

    When the Oakland Athletics allowed Kyler Murray to delay his professional baseball career to play quarterback for Oklahoma last fall, the universal expectation was that the 2018 football season would be his last. After selecting him with the ninth overall pick last June, the A’s gave him a $4.66 million signing bonus to entice him to give up the gridiron. That future seemed certain. The A’s said so. Even Murray said so. It wasn’t even clear he was good enough at football to become Oklahoma’s starting quarterback.

    Then Murray didn’t just win the job. He emerged as the best player in the entire country, accounting for 54 touchdowns—42 passing, 12 rushing—and winning the Heisman Trophy. Talent evaluators now view him as a possible first-round NFL pick.

    Murray officially declared for the NFL Draft, indicating that he intends to explore his options. With the A’s reporting for spring training in a month, he soon has to make a choice about which sport to pursue. As his life reaches a crossroad, here’s a look at the advantages—and disadvantages—his two potential paths offer:

    Why should Murray stick to baseball?

    Perhaps the most compelling reason has nothing to do with his career, but rather what happens after it. Baseball players rarely face the possibility of a life-altering injury in the line of duty, nor do they typically risk a long-term brain condition from constantly bashing their heads.

    Then there are the financial benefits. Murray could realistically play Major League Baseball for close to 20 years, a near-impossibility in football. While he could be cut at any time in the NFL, MLB contracts are guaranteed. Unless Murray can keep one of the NFL’s 32 starting quarterback jobs for a sustained period, his earning potential in baseball could be greater.

    That’s true even if he is just decent. Mark Kotsay—like Murray, the ninth pick of the baseball draft, in 1996—was never more than a solid player. Nonetheless, Kotstay lasted 17 seasons in the majors and earned more than $50 million in salary. San Francisco Giants pitcher Jeff Samardzija, who gave up a potential NFL career as a wide receiver for baseball, is in the middle of a five-year, $90 million contract. He had a 6.25 ERA in 10 starts last season.

    It’s true that for Murray to achieve any of this, he will need to show that he deserves a place on a major-league roster by enduring several seasons in the minors. That isn’t a certainty, but it is likely: Of the 37 No. 9 draft picks between 1979 and 2015, 29 reached the majors, including players like Ron Darling, Barry Zito and Javier Báez.

    Why should Murray trade his mitt for shoulder pads?

    Baseball offers some financial benefits, but if Murray wants to ensure himself the highest earning floor, he should play football.

    Baker Mayfield, who preceded Murray as the Oklahoma quarterback and also won the Heisman, went No. 1 in the draft and got a $22 million signing bonus—and that doesn’t include the millions more he will earn in salary. That bonus alone is about triple what the No. 1 pick in the last MLB draft got and nearly five times what Murray was given by the A’s. The last pick of the first round in the last NFL draft, quarterback Lamar Jackson, received a bonus of more than $5 million with an overall contract worth nearly $10 million.

    Murray also plays the one position that routinely offers the salaries paid to the biggest baseball stars. The 16th highest-paid quarterback makes more than $20 million. That same quarterback, Tom Brady is also 41 years old—it’s the one position players can earn big bucks playing at an advanced age. And for all the health concerns, Murray would join the league at a time when it is doing more than ever to protect quarterbacks.

    What is MLB doing to keep Murray?

    Baseball views Murray as an antidote to its biggest problems. He is a popular, extraordinarily talented figure at a time when baseball is fighting to lure the best athletes away from football and basketball and to appeal to younger demographics. Tony Clark, the executive director of the MLB Players Association and a two-sport college athlete, called Murray “the kind of special athlete our fans want to see and our sport needs to attract the next generation of fans.”

    That’s why, when a contingent of A’s officials pitched Murray over the weekend, they weren’t alone. A representative from MLB’s marketing team was also there to sell him on how baseball could transform him into an off-the-field superstar. That’s a weakness for a sport whose most famous player may be a minor-leaguer named Tim Tebow—who washed out of the NFL.

    MLB is trying to help the A’s give Murray more than his $4.66 million signing bonus. MLB rules prohibit teams from signing draft picks to a major-league contract or use a major-league contract as an inducement to sign a minor-league deal. But MLB has concluded that, since a major-league contract wasn’t initially discussed, the A’s are now free to give Murray one as they see fit and immediately put him on their 40-man roster. Murray would still start his baseball career as a minor-leaguer, but he certainly wouldn’t be paid like one.

    How does he rate as an NFL prospect?

    Murray is polarizing because he’s about an inch shorter than the height that is traditionally considered a bare minimum to play quarterback in the pros. Oklahoma’s baseball and football teams listed him at 5-foot-11 and 5-foot-10, respectively. The NFL draft process will determine his true height.

    That measurement could have massive implications because NFL teams obsess over prototypes, and the prototypical quarterback is taller than Murray. Even Mayfield, who is 6 feet, faced questions about his height last year.

    There are exceptions. Drew Brees and Russell Wilson, Super Bowl winners, are both under 6 foot. But teams don’t go out looking for exceptions, they just accept them in rare circumstances when a player is so gifted as to make up for that type of deficiency. The question for Murray is if his exceptional arm and playmaking abilities transcend his stature.

    Kliff Kingsbury, the former coach of Texas Tech, offered his opinion during the season. “I’d take him with the first pick of the draft if I could,” he said. A strange turn of events made his comment newly relevant. Kingsbury got fired from Texas Tech. Then he got a new job as the coach of the Arizona Cardinals. Which means Kingsbury now has the No. 1 pick in the draft.

    Can he play both sports professionally at the same time? No.

  129. J.Ross says: • Website

    HERO COP SHOOTS THE EVIL FIRE MAN IN THE BACK OF THE HEAD, MACRON CELEBRATES WITH SWEATY FRIENDS
    THE ARISTOCRATS!
    Anon adds:
    Yellow Vest Fireman in a Coma After Getting Shot in the Back of the Head by Cop

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6593807/Shocking-video-shows-fireman-Yellow-Vest-protestor-shot-head-French-police.html

    https://archive.fo/DSYpO

    The video is from Saturday, posted on Sunday. Now we’re finding out that the man is in a coma.

    You would think that perhaps putting a guy in a coma to defend a global warming tax would be over the line. But there isn’t any line.

    That’s the issue.

    The French are complaining about the President, and in Democracy, the President is a dictator-type supreme leader who can not be questioned. He can just shoot you in the head or whatever.

    So basically at this point, their only actual option is overthrowing the government.

    But that… would be racism.

    • Replies: @densa
  130. anonomy says:

    Here is the thing, the ruling class, slave holders, were much uglier than you think. Why cast them as attractive people? Why always glorify the empire? Blacks as slave holders tells a lot truths. I’m not sure she is black enough for the role. Please cast M.Anthony as a short, fat ,bisexual,big nose Jewish guy.

  131. Don’t overlook Gal Gadot

    • Replies: @L Bean
  132. As always, missing the forest for the trees.

    The question isn’t “who should play Cleopatra” instead it ought to be, “why should Cleopatra have a movie”?

    Seriously, why does a side-character, a thot to boot, deserve screen time? What does it say about the values of a people when that is the debate?!

    Make another season of Rome, better yet make one about the lady British spy, and I’ll say it again, Marlborough and Savoy seriously need to be onscreen. Bring back movies that sought to inspire active heroism, not activism or victimhood!

  133. Altai says:

    Put it another way. How many roles for Macedonian immigrants or Mecedonian-Americans are there? Rihanna has Anglophone privilege too.

  134. Altai says:

    Historically, white actresses such as Claudette Colbert, Vivien Leigh, and, most famously, Elizabeth Taylor have portrayed Cleopatra. The thinking during Hollywood’s Golden Age seemed to be that kohl eyeliner and a black wig was all it took to transform any white woman into the Queen of the Nile.

    Erm, both Elizabeth Taylor and Vivien Leigh were famous for their thick black hair. (And from what colour pictures I can see Claudette Colbert was dark brown and maybe had naturally darker hair, it looks black in most back and white images, which I suppose is all that matters for the black and white portrayal she did)

    What is this weird thing that non-white women have for thinking white women are natural blondes in any numbers outside Scandinavia? Is it because their Afua Hirsch-like neurotic body-dismorphic obsession was formed in childhood and early adolescence when a non-trivial number of white girls still had blonde hair?

  135. Anon[323] • Disclaimer says:

    How about having Egyptians play Egyptians?

  136. syonredux says:
    @Anonymous

    Some black historians even claim that blacks migrated somehow to ancient China and became the Emperors scholars and engineers.

    We wuz Konfucusss….

  137. Beene525 says:

    “There really are a lot of people out there reading Vox who sincerely believe: “If Rihanna gets cast as Cleopatra, my life will be better.””

    That’s pretty pathetic.

    Almost as pathetic as the people who think, say, “If Sarah Jeong (who is Sarah Jeong?) is removed from The New York Times editorial board, my life would be better.”

    • Replies: @J.Ross
  138. Cleopatra, like most royalty, had a complex heritage, due to alliance-marriages, including lots of blood from Mithridates who was kind of Greek kind of not. Doubtful any African.

    Nefertiti on the other hand could easily have had some Nubian blood.

  139. The central issue here is that Rihanna can’t act. Angelina Jolie can’t act either. But Rihanna can’t act worse.

  140. songbird says:
    @peterike

    I don’t get it – production ability has never had such a low entrance fee or been been so multipolar. There is Bollywood, Nollywood… Acting like white people need to made films filled with blacks sounds so condescending.

  141. @The Wild Geese Howard

    All part and parcel of the glorious Coudenhove-Kalergi plan, my friend.

    It’s enough to make you wish Rick handed him over Major Strasser.

  142. songbird says:
    @syonredux

    I believe they picked her because they thought she had a Jewish esthetic (even though she is not Jewish.). Same reason Tasha had butch hair – they were trying to subvert the shiska ideal.

    • Replies: @syonredux
  143. @Nigerian Nationalist

    The question isn’t “who should play Cleopatra” instead it ought to be, “why should Cleopatra have a movie”?

    Because women are the primary intended market for movies and TV shows, and women love stories about irresistible courtesans with powerful men willing to risk it all for them.

    • Agree: Redneck farmer, Arclight
    • LOL: Johann Ricke
  144. songbird says:
    @KunioKun

    They didn’t have a lot of names back then. The Phoenicians were even worse.

  145. ChrisZ says:
    @syonredux

    Great work, Syon.

    I think that talented Malek kid should play her. Why should the role of Cleopatra be confined to women? And he’s already shown he can play a Queen.

  146. ChrisZ says:
    @syonredux

    We’re on the same page. Marina Sirtis would be great. She’s probably too old now, but so was Cleopatra.

    • Replies: @Jack D
  147. ricpic says:
    @Charles Pewitt

    What charms? She’s got the hard whore look down pat.

  148. @gregor

    Gregor, Ok, so they didn’t find the skull but they find some hair extensions ?

    • LOL: gregor
  149. Bubba says:
    @songbird

    I thought it was the heroin that made Jolie look like that. But then again, I thought Maria Carey was white.

    • Replies: @Bubba
  150. @Kylie

    I got $100 that says 90% of all black claims of discrimination are really the world failing to confirm their unrealistically high self-estimates.

  151. densa says:
    @J.Ross

    The second video at that link has a view from behind the police. There are subtitles and they say, “They don’t know its us; we don’t know it’s us.” Then, “Go pick up the casings.” Then they take off.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6593807/Shocking-video-shows-fireman-Yellow-Vest-protestor-shot-head-French-police.html#v-2446265269644382105

    So, the boxer isn’t allowed to raise funds for a defense. Macron comes out with his insulting debate while teargassing the Gilet Jaunes by helicopter. Today the police shoot this fireman in the head and are possibly caught covering it up? That ought to calm things down.

  152. the problem with casting Negroes and Negresses in the roles of talented Europeans like Cleopatra is that audiences don’t believe it. Cf the Negro “genius” MD on House–NO ONE bought it, esp House

  153. “One man, one vote does not make Sambo equal to Socrates…” –Edward A Ross, 1908

    Are there any thespian equivalents?

    Hitchcock called actors “cattle”.

    • Replies: @MikeatMikedotMike
  154. @Chebyshev

    Ariana Grande is a crappy actress and also she is a classical beauty with a nosejob. Needs to be someone sexy but not beautiful, like Lady Gaga.

    • Replies: @Chebyshev
    , @YetAnotherAnon
  155. @E. Rekshun

    E., Nice article but one dispute I have, Tim Tebow is hardly the most “famous player.’ I think Aaron Judge certainly eclipsed Tebow the last two seasons.

  156. @Anonymous

    Angelina is too old and haggard looking at this point. Cleopatra died in her 30s. Also she’s whittled her nose down to almost nothing.

  157. anon[345] • Disclaimer says:

    There really are a lot of people out there reading Vox who sincerely believe: “If Rihanna gets cast as Cleopatra, my life will be better.”

    And why not? There were tens of millions who thought basically the same thing about Barack Obama.

  158. RJJCDA says:

    She was Macedonian, descendant of the Ptolemy family who ruled Egypt after the death of Alexander.

  159. @E. Rekshun

    Who cares about Rihanna, the real question for today is whether Heisman Trophy winner Kyler Murray should play professional football or baseball.

    Not even a decision in this day and age.

    Get those fat, guaranteed baseball contracts rolling and play until 35.

    If he’s middling and manages to save 75% of today’s average $4 million baseball salary he’ll wind up with a net worth around $20 million and no major injuries.

    $20 million is the kind of money you can put in almost no-risk instruments with a crappy 2 or 3% rate and never have to worry about money again. You could easily use the interest to go back to business school, travel the world, start your own business, or seed someone else’s startup in exchange for equity.

    • Agree: E. Rekshun
  160. gp says:

    I don’t know if Rihanna can carry the Cleopatra part, but she was GREAT in the movie “Battleship!” I’m surprised I’m the first person to point that out.

  161. Bubba says:
    @E. Rekshun

    I’d like to see Jalen Hurts win the Heisman or a National Championship at Oklahoma.

  162. @The Germ Theory of Disease

    Agree. And as others have noted her “ethnic” appearance is also appropriate for the part. Not that it matters anymore, but some of us would still like our Hollywood historical dramas to at least be somewhat believable.

    Unless it’s a re-creation of “Zulu” I don’t want to see any Bantus.

    • Replies: @reactionry
  163. JimB says:
    @syonredux

    Not too bad a suggestion for Cleopatra, but Marina Sirtis is a little disappointing in the hips and bosom department. A little padding or CGI could fix that, though.

    Cleopatra was heavily pinkshifted in the gender specter I.e. all woman!

  164. Daniel H says:
    @austin

    I saw Rhianna in Ocean’s 8 and she cannot act at all

    She won’t need to act much. Just bring the “angry black woman” to Cleopatra’s character. The “angry black woman” is what the tastemasters want.

  165. Lurker says:
    @Abe

    Seems like many MSM outlets gin up some nonsense story which is then repeated and magnified by Facebook and Twitter bed wetters. Then MSM outlets can feed off this, telling us “what the internet thinks.”

  166. @syonredux

    Marina Sirtis — Brilliant choice, if she wasn’t 63 now. Time flies.

    Hey — how about Maria Bartiromo?

  167. Bubba says:
    @Bubba

    Sorry, left out the “h”, Mariah Carey.

  168. J.Ross says: • Website
    @Nigerian Nationalist

    This. There’s a zillion African queens — who, happily enough for these professional complainers, were undoubtedly black — who have no movie. Black Panther should have been followed up with Nyabinghi or the Dahomey Amazons.

    • Replies: @Nigerian Nationalist
  169. @Reg Cæsar

    Before the motion picture industry forever altered the image of thespians, the trade was considered a short step above prostitution.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
  170. Ibound1 says:

    The Romans painted Cleopatra as white skinned and auburn haired. But what did they know? It’s not like they were interested in their own history, Julius Caesar or Egypt.

  171. @syonredux

    Betazoid O’Rourke?

    Being none too bright, before Googling I hadn’t thought much about the last name of Marina Sirtis other than that it seemed, well, “alien.” Wiki notes that she was born in London to Greek working class parents and that her mother, Despina was a tailor’s assistant (insert old joke about – Euripides? – Eumenides?).

    I’m sensing extreme……adolescent…infatuation…no..it’s more like horniness…

    Counselor of Troi – the face (and cleavage) that launched, if not a thousand starships, then at least a million loads of shizzel.

    See also Homer, The Iliad’s Catalogue of Ships

    Also see Lil’ Wanker Rascal Bart Simpson, Catalogue of Sears

    (Sears? Yeah, well, The Simpsons have been around a long time)

    • Replies: @syonredux
    , @BB753
  172. @PiltdownMan

    Hopefully, the Yellowstone caldera will upstage them all
    with an unforgettably smoldering performance, unrepeated for aeons.

  173. @J.Ross

    Thing is, while Dahomean society would make for great onscreen characters–They’re culturally Wakanda-esque. They have too many red pills to fit in the “narrative”.

    A resource starved interior tribe coalesces around an absolute monarch for two reasons:

    1. To rid themselves of the domination of their horse-riding, slave taking erstwhile masters, the Oyo.

    2. They don’t do this by Selma-style matches and Gandhi-esque non-violence but by escalating the cycle, they institute a sort of levee en-masse, conquering all their neighbours to the south and selling them for the guns they use to overcome the advantage cavalry had conferred on their former overlords.

    3. Population constraints force them into conscripting women, who aren’t half-bad. Soon developing a fearsome reputation as head-taking hard-hitters. That is until they are trounced by a Christian Republic to their east, who were losing, until they captured one of the Dahomean troops. Finding out she was a woman activated their misogyny, leading to their victory.

    That’s the true story, but I bet if Hollywood ever got their mitts on it, all the fun stuff will be removed. Tueh!

  174. Jack D says:
    @Hannah Katz

    I take it you haven’t seen Hamilton?

  175. Chebyshev says:
    @S. Anonyia

    She can do a great Jennifer Lawrence impression.

  176. Jack D says:
    @ChrisZ

    Cleopatra died at 39 so Marina is about 25 years too old to play her now. Marina circa 1995 would be fine but we haven’t invented time travel yet.

  177. syonredux says:
    @reactionry

    I’m sensing extreme……adolescent…infatuation…no..it’s more like horniness…

    Counselor of Troi – the face (and cleavage) that launched, if not a thousand starships, then at least a million loads of shizzel.

    I was 7 when Next Gen came on the air, and 14 when it went off, and, yes, my appreciation for Miss Sirtis certainly, shall we say, waxed towards the end of the show’s run….

    • Replies: @reactionry
  178. J.Ross says: • Website
    @Beene525

    Yeah it’s not like the editorial staff of the declining global hegemon’s paper of record presumes to define mainstream opinion, or has any meaning or influence, or is any different from the chick who sang Umbrella.
    >who is Sarah Jeong?
    A person who would have been mercilessly punished were it not for her nonwhite privilege, thereby reminding us that we are second-class citizens. Not because of Jeong herself but because of her handlers.

  179. Thea says:
    @Jack D

    How do you know? Some of us may be here from the future!

  180. @Jack D

    The Star Trek franchise hasn’t invented time travel yet? Maybe Shirley MacLaine could play Cleopatra, since she identifies as trans-chronic. I identify as a 1750’s blacksmith and farmer from Jamestown, Virginia, FWIW. Cleaner air, quieter, cheaper land, fewer regs, no television, freedom of association . . . you get the picture.

    • Replies: @BB753
  181. @Jimi

    The theme must be amended slightly to clarify that Marc Antony never deserved his status and Western values were never virtuous. The amended theme shows Marc Antony as a foolish pig who got where he got only through exploitation of slaves and servants. Rihanna as Cleopatra is fine, so long as she can play the dominant role, his superior, who gets what she needs and exploits his dependence on her. It helps that she’s POC ’cause that explains how she avoids being soiled by her noble ancestry. Plenty of gratuitous sex should help carry the film along. Cleo can abandon Marc after sex for trysts with other women, her maids-in-waiting, Antony’s servants and soldiers, that kind of thing. The important thing is to humiliate Antony and reveal him, along with Rome and Western Civilization, as naïve, weak, petulant, and unnecessary. Haven Monahan would make a good Antony, or maybe Steve King.

  182. syonredux says:
    @songbird

    I believe they picked her because they thought she had a Jewish esthetic (even though she is not Jewish.). Same reason Tasha had butch hair – they were trying to subvert the shiska ideal.

    Tasha was originally going to be “Macha Hernandez.” Roddenbery, it seems, was a fan of the machoLatinx gal soldier in Aliens (I’m guessing that the “Macha” part was supposed to mean that she was half-Irish or something). Anyway, what I’ve always heard is that Sirtis tried out for the security officer part, and Denise Crosby was going for Troi, but the producers thought that each gal was better suited to the other part.

    Dunno if they thought that Sirtis looked Jewish (She looks quite Greek to me), but Tasha Yar”s surname was, apparently, supposed to evoke Babi Yar.

    • Replies: @Corn
  183. @syonredux

    Waning, Wanking, Thanking

    Ah so – wax on, whacks off
    I would have thanked you earlier for the above and the other screen or money shot, but was typing with one hand and just now cleaned off the monitor…..just kidding…sigh…at my age (67 – a watcher of the orig. series) should be so lucky.

  184. BB753 says:

    C’mon, Cleopatra was Julius Caesar’s mistress and Marc Anthony’s wife! Had she been black or exotic -looking to Romans , we would have known for centuries. She would have been dubbed the brown-skinned temptress, or anything along those lines. And Romans would have gossiped about her woolly hair, negroid lips, etc. Instead, we’re just told she was a regular Seleucid.

  185. MBlanc46 says:

    Nia Vardalos maybe?

  186. anon1 says:
    @James Braxton

    “Assumptions” become “facts” when it suits the needs and interests of pollical correctness.

  187. @MikeatMikedotMike

    Before the motion picture industry forever altered the image of thespians, the trade was considered a short step above prostitution.

    Same with reporters. Who are now “journalists”.

  188. @Anonymous Jew

    Zulu Dawn, Zulu Might Be On Hulu, But Bantu Is Not Who We Are?

    As Yogi Assegai said, ” ‘Zulu Dawn’ is *not* like deja ‘Zulu’ all over again.”

    Also see Yogi Quango regarding the vast amounts of aid administered by innumerable private and governmental agencies without much lasting effect on the western half of Hispaniola, “It’s like deja voodoo economics* all over again.”

    * The “Laffer Curve” does bear *some* resemblance to reality, but it would be very racist to speak of a “Bantu Bell Curve” or say, “No one outside of Haiti does that deja voodoo like Bantu do.”

    As usual, have thought of a one-liner and then droned on much, much too long, but will still mention that I remember little about some young Jewish man from South Africa with whom my first wife and I went out for dinner a few decades ago other than that his first name was “Cecil.” I’ve read a very little about the Anglo-Boer Wars but nothing about relations between Boers and Jews so haven’t the foggiest if one of the former invitingly said to one of the latter, “Silly Rabbi, treks *are* for Yids!”

  189. “Should Rihanna…”, only if Chris Brown is cast as Octavian.

  190. @syonredux

    The WIKIPEDIA article on Cleopatra’s ancestry is surprisingly non-pozzed

    Yeah, I noticed that too. Perhaps that’s because Cleopatra is a well documented historical figure from antiquity, and there appears to be a wealth of contemporaneous or near-contemporaneous confirmation about her identity and presence in the historical record. Like this extraordinary document illustrating that Wikipedia article—a papyrus document with Cleopatra’s signature.

    By Ancient Ptolemaic-period scribe(s) as well as Cleopatra VII of Egypt who offered her signature on the document – “KLEOPATRA THE GREAT” LYTHAM ST ANNES CLASSICAL ASSOCIATION (4 March 2018), Public Domain, https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?curid=67571774

  191. Cleopatra was of full Greek descent, so it probably should be a white actress playing her. Also, considering how severely inbred she was, it ought to be a rather ugly one, too.

  192. @Reg Cæsar

    Great nose. She looks like a Greek statue. I think it’s called ‘the Terme Boxer.’

  193. Historically, white actresses such as Claudette Colbert, Vivien Leigh, and, most famously, Elizabeth Taylor have portrayed Cleopatra.

    Nadra Nittle overlooks a couple of fine movie depictions of Cleopatra.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    , @Jack D
  194. Anonymous[420] • Disclaimer says:
    @PiltdownMan

    Astonished no one’s went here yet:

    The woman in this would work if she was a few years younger.

    Hell, really, any woman with a big (but not flat) nose would suffice lookswise if she could act. Since there are no photos or video from that time the audience can assume what they want-but black is not where you want to go. Whatever she was, she wasn’t black.

    Then again, most people figure she had to look like Liz Taylor, because, well, because. Which means a Parsee might do, a lot of them look Liz Taylorish-but without the violet eyes.

  195. Jack D says:
    @PiltdownMan

    This is ridiculous. Everyone knows that ancient Romans did not speak French. They spoke English. With posh British accents. Hearing them speak French makes you realize that all on screen portrayals of ancients are ridiculous and don’t resemble reality in the slightest.

    • LOL: Johann Ricke
    • Replies: @Anonymous
  196. Anonymous[420] • Disclaimer says:
    @Jack D

    A comment by the Palindromic Professor:

    As I have said, I consider this symbiosis as the fundamental fact in our problem
    tonight, so let me illustrate it with two or three examples that will make it clear.

    In the second half of the 19th Century lived a distinguished French
    mathematician, Professor Michel Chasles. He was the author of a number of
    treatises that you will find cited in any reasonably complete work on geometrical
    theory, prisms, or conic sections. He developed a method of analytical geometry
    independent of the calculus, and his treatise on the displacement of solids is
    regarded as a mathematical classic. He was a member of the French Academie des
    Sciences, which means that he was recognized as one of the 66 best scientific
    minds in all France, and he was furthermore the recipient of the highest honor that
    the Royal Society of London could bestow.

    Now Professor Chasles was quite wealthy, and one day there came to him an
    enterprising young intellectual named Vrain-Lucas, who was—he said—a
    specialist in finding old documents, particularly autographs. He sold the good
    professor an original letter which proved that Descartes had anticipated all the
    discoveries of Newton. Professor Chasles was elated to be the possessor of a
    document of such vast significance in the history of science, and his appetite was
    whetted for more. So he made Vrain-Lucas promise to bring to him all his
    sensational finds. Vrain-Lucas did; he supplied remarkable documents, first, one at
    a time, then by the dozen, and then by the score.

    In a few years, M. Chasles had a much smaller balance at his bankers, but he
    owned a collection of treasures unmatched in the world, unique documents, almost
    all of them autographs, written by the great figures of history. He had original
    letters by Pascal, by Montaigne, by Amerigo Vespucci, by Charlemagne, by St.
    Jerome, by Plato, by Socrates, and by many others. It would be hard to say which
    item in his collection of more than 600 letters was the most remarkable, but my
    favorite is the autographic love-letter written by Cleopatra to Julius Caesar—a
    letter that Cleopatra wrote with her own fair hand—with a steel pen—on rag paper
    —in 16th-Century French!

    (Emphasis mine)

    Now it may not be fair to single out the French mathematician from among the
    thousands of men like him, but just the same, if I had anything to do with running
    a college, I would see to it that a statue of Professor Chasles stood at the gates as a
    reminder of what education can do for a man.

    If you ask which was the “intellectual,” Professor Chasles or Vrain-Lucas, the
    answer, of course, is both of them. They are complementary types, like the *yin*
    and *yang* in the Chinese monogram, and one could scarcely exist without the
    other. One, indeed, is to a large extent the cause of the other.

    Our race always has been, and probable always will be, afflicted with well-
    meaning people, usually well educated and sometimes brilliant, who simply
    cannot keep their imaginations under control. They are born to be the dupes of any
    scoundrel or adventurer who takes the trouble to put out a little bait for them, and
    they are often so generous that they do more than half his work for him and
    practically dupe themselves.

  197. BB753 says:
    @Bard of Bumperstickers

    Interesting concept! Do you identify as a British subject too?

  198. BB753 says:
    @reactionry

    Believe it or not, the Star Trek New Generation female character who made me feel funny in my pants was none other than Dr. Beverly Crusher! I was in my late teens, she was in her early forties. Weird, looking back. Now that I’m in my late forties, I’m into younger women, and certainly more into brunettes than gingers or (strawberry) blondes!
    Was anybody in love with Whoopi Goldberg?

  199. Rihanna should be rejected because it is being suggested as a deliberate political statement.

    The irony is that the mixed-race Rihanna, with appropriate make-up and clothing, is actually light-skinned enough to pull of a mediterranean appearance.

    If it wasn’t for the outbreak of offensive “blackwash” that has overtaken Hollywood in recent years, I wouldn’t have an objection to Rihanna. But given the current political zeitgeist – no way.

    It will be interesting to see how Egypt reacts. When African-American actor, Louie Gosset Junior, played Anwar Sadat in a 1983 telemovie it enraged the Egyptian people who were highly offended (despite the fact Sadat was 1/4 Sudanese and Gosset was actually a good likeness.) The Egyptian Ministry of Culture responded by banning all Columbia pictures for a time. I wonder how they’d react today?

    • Replies: @bjondo
    , @syonredux
  200. Tyrion 2 says:
    @Anon

    Sure, reflected glory, in this case, equals specificity, status and whether it is real/its impact etc.

    Hence when a charismatic dwarf called Tyrion became the best character on the biggest TV show ever, it was quite good for me. It was very specific to me, probably being the only other dwarf called Tyrion, and it was the biggest TV show ever. Then again, it would have reflected even more glory on me if the show were real and said dwarf called Tyrion ascended to the Iron Throne.

    On the other hand, were it simply a fairly short bloke called Bob who played a key part in an average film then the reflected glory would be but a photon.

    Personally, I think that, since there has never been a dwarf called Tyrion as King of England nor President of the United States nor President of China nor richest man in the world, I should immediately be given all 4 positions in order that a historically disadvantaged person be represented for the first time.

    But I would think that, I suppose.

    On that note: what an article: https://www.breitbart.com/the-media/2019/01/16/ann-coulter-white-supremacists-ate-my-homework/

  201. C’mon, its a no-brainer. Beyonce as Miss Cleo. It’s the role she was born to play, and she’d be Queen Bey at last.

  202. @S. Anonyia

    “needs to be someone sexy but not beautiful”

    Pity Chrissie Hynde is too old.

  203. Corn says:
    @Anonymous

    “Some black historians even claim that blacks migrated somehow to ancient China and became the Emperors scholars and engineers”

    A black coworker once told his son that the first Chinese admiral to lead great oceanic voyages was black.

    As he inelegantly put it on the phone, “The first Chinese sailor wasn’t some Ching Hi motherf*****, it was a black man!”

  204. Corn says:
    @syonredux

    “Dunno if they thought that Sirtis looked Jewish (She looks quite Greek to me), but Tasha Yar”s surname was, apparently, supposed to evoke Babi Yar.”

    Star Trek fan back in my pre-teens here. I believe Marina Sirtis is indeed half-Greek. One Greek parent and one British parent IIRC.

    As an aside, I actually went to a couple Star Trek conventions in junior high. Most of the attendees looked, well, dorky, but there would always be one or two young women there dressed like Counselor Troi. They were genuinely hot and gave all us dorky guys hope that we wouldn’t die virgin bachelors.

    • Replies: @syonredux
  205. Corn says:
    @BB753

    I’ll fess up with you brother. Dr. Crusher was my first MILF crush too.

  206. Jack D says:
    @James Braxton

    On her paternal side, the royal house of Egypt was definitely Greek, descended from Alexander’s generals. They spoke Greek, considered themselves Greek and refused to learn the Egyptian language. Alexandria, their capital, was a Greek city. No one knows who her mother was but the Ptolemaic pharaohs liked to keep it in the family to the point of brother-sister incest so chances are she was Greek too. Ptolemaic royalty did not mix with the locals any more than Belgian royalty mixed with the natives of the Congo. In modern terms they were racists.

    • Replies: @syonredux
  207. bomag says:
    @Art Deco

    I was thinking of all direct payment programs: food stamps; housing allowances; medicaid; earned income credit.

    I wouldn’t include old age SS, since it is a participatory, pay-as-you-go system, but a case could be made.

    • Replies: @Jack D
  208. Truth says:
    @Anonymous

    Well I would suppose your eyes don’t function too well, Old Sport…

    Blacks represented 17.6 percent (296,351) of the FW in 2006 and 17.4
    percent (294,300) of the FW in 2005. Black representation in the CLF was
    10.1 percent in 2006, the same as in 2005.

    “FW” stands for Federal Workforce.

    There is a fine graph about the VA on page #15 of this report.

    https://www.opm.gov/policy-data-oversight/diversity-and-inclusion/reports/feorp2006.pdf

  209. Truth says:
    @Jack D

    That appears to be a photograph of Jesus, not a picture.

  210. Truth says:
    @Buffalo Joe

    Well she died in 1975, so she might need time to put some weight on.

  211. FPD72 says:
    @Anonymous

    I can think of one executed enemy of Rome whose corpse was entombed, but his tomb has been empty for almost 1,986 years.

  212. @Anonymous

    I believe the operation is known as an “addadictomy.”

  213. L Bean says:
    @Known Fact

    Cleopatra may have been several things, but Ashkenazi?

  214. bjondo says:
    @Robert Martin

    pretty sure the egyptians
    were enraged by choice of gosset
    because sadat is seen as a clown.

    a better selection would have been larry stooge.

  215. syonredux says:
    @Robert Martin

    The irony is that the mixed-race Rihanna, with appropriate make-up and clothing, is actually light-skinned enough to pull of a mediterranean appearance.

    Her schnozz is too Negroid.

  216. syonredux says:
    @Jack D

    The Greeks didn’t even think of Alexandria as an Egyptian city. They never referred to it as being “in” Egypt; to them, it was always Alexandria, “near” Egypt.

  217. FPD72 says:
    @BB753

    The answer to your concluding question is: yes, Ted Dansen, the star of Cheers. He and Whoopi were an item for awhile.

    Go figure. There is absolutely no accounting for taste.

    • LOL: BB753
    • Replies: @J.Ross
  218. @BB753

    Dr. Crusher, you betcha! But hey, I would also gladly let Nurse Chapel treat me (Majel Barrett, Roddenberry’s wife)

  219. syonredux says:
    @Corn

    Marina Sirtis

    Place of Birth: Hackney, London, England, U.K.

    Date of Birth: 29 March, 1955

    Ethnicity: Greek

    Marina was born in Hackney, London, England, to working-class Greek parents, Despina (Yianniri) and John Sirtis. She is a naturalized American citizen.

    http://ethnicelebs.com/marina-sirtis

  220. Zbig Zyndrome?
    Or: Anti-Prometheism?

    Hah! – beat me to it – though the thought had sprang unwelcomingly to mind within a second or so of seeing the mention of Whoopi. Wandering off-topic, here’s the gist of late night musings last night/early morning:

    A search of TD’s IMb showed, alas, no Star Trek TNG. His roastings following his blackface roasting of WG are well known, but until skimming through his Wiki page, did not know that he had “Poland Syndrome”

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ted_Danson#Early_life

    – hell, don’t think I’ve even *heard* (still licensed, but fortunately for the world, retired) of that syndrome – which in spite of Steve Sailer’s post about Neo-Promethism/Brzezinski, does *not* include an unquenchable hatred for Russia.

    (and yes, Uhura was (much) hotter)

    • Replies: @reactionry
  221. @reactionry

    oops – dang, sprang, sayeth Jung, thus sprung Zarathustra

  222. @BB753

    Eff Scott and Ella Fitzgerald?

    (Danson’s ancestry is part Scottish)

    Makin Whoopee

    • Replies: @BB753
  223. J.Ross says: • Website
    @FPD72

    Well, the bigger the forehead, the more lesbians will … yeah that doesn’t work.

  224. Jack D says:
    @bomag

    This is a lie. Most people (especially low income people) draw out far more than they pay in and the money that you pay in gets spent immediately by the government. The only way you will collect on it is if the government takes future earners and uses those funds to pay you. Your money is long gone. In other words, the world’s biggest Ponzi scheme.

    • Replies: @bomag
    , @keuril
  225. The question should not be whether Rihanna looks like Cleopatra might have looked, but whether she is a good enough actress to make people believe that she is Cleopatra. I suspect not, but then I have never seen her act.

  226. bomag says:
    @Jack D

    Yes, the system was set up for future earners to pay current contributors when the time came.

    Like North Korean food vouchers, such things tend to dwindle out of existence. The central authorities in charge of such things have other pressing priorities.

  227. fondolo says:

    Has anyone demanded that Cleopatra should be played by a Greek?

  228. keuril says:
    @Jack D

    In other words, the world’s biggest Ponzi scheme.

    Certainly it is a Ponzi scheme. But that doesn’t mean we should get rid of it. http://www.efficientfrontier.com/ef/900/ss.htm

  229. BB753 says:
    @reactionry

    Some black women definitely turn me on. But Whoopi Goldberg I find totally unattractive. An unlikely pair, Ted Danson and Whoopi Goldberg!

  230. @anon

    You’re right. For Queen Victoria, I’d pick Queen Latifah. Can’t think of a Karenina.

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