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I’m hoping that Katherine J. Wu is trolling Vox with what could be a parody, but …

How a pseudopenis-packing hyena smashes the patriarchy’s assumptions

Lessons from female spotted hyenas for the #MeToo era.
By Katherine J. Wu Updated Jun 20, 2018, 7:46am EDT

Like many young women, I grew up aspiring to fit into a patriarchal world. While the boys in my elementary school were encouraged to focus on their professional achievement and financial success, I was instructed to cross my legs, minimize my food intake, and coo at plastic babies with fluttering eyelids.

Every cultural signal I encountered featured men at the top of the food chain, giving me the morning news, leading Fortune 500 companies, accepting Nobel Prizes. It was only years later, while studying biology, that I found empowerment in an unexpected place: through the tale of the spotted hyena’s evolution — possibly one of the most inspirational examples of feminism in the natural world.

Unlike most other mammals, spotted hyenas (Crocuta crocuta) live in matriarchal societies led by alpha females. In these clans throughout sub-Saharan Africa, females do the majority of the hunting, dictate the social structure, and raise cubs as single mothers. Even the highest-ranking male in the group is subservient to the most junior female.

For example, in The Lion King, Whoopi Goldberg is the alpha female while Cheech Marin and Jim Cummings are her sidekicks. I’m sure that’s not a coincidence (seriously, screenwriters do a lot of research and they often pack a lot of weird details like that into shows).

… Much like the Greek Amazons and Wonder Woman, hyenas are a lineage of queens that prove the human assumption that patriarchies are inevitable — or even natural — completely wrong.

I like the “completely” in that sentence.

 
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  1. But humans aren’t female spotted hyenas…………………………………………………….

    • Replies: @WowJustWow
    But how do you know what they identify as? Your cis-species-normativity makes me feel unsafe.
    , @c matt
    Some human females do come close . . . .
    , @The preferred nomenclature is...
    She does know Wonder Woman is fiction, right?

    Now that I think about, she may not. Wow.
    , @AnotherDad

    But humans aren’t female spotted hyenas…………………………………………………….
     
    Exactly. This is appeal to biology ... of a *different species*! The immediate thought in anyone's head reading this should be, "oh interesting … but that's not us".

    That said, this is America, no one is stopping her from "doing the majority of the hunting" and certainly not "raise her cubs as single mother".

    The harder part for women--and essentially the core feminist complaint--is the getting:

    Even the highest-ranking male in the group is subservient to the most junior female.

     

    i.e. that feminists while perfectly free to organize their own lives, don't--yet--get to order men to serve them, to behave as women want.

    In a free society, men also have rights and get to chose. Which is why feminists hate men being free and are always on "the left" trying to use state power to make men behave--unnaturally--as feminists want.

    But Miss Wu may be in luck there as well. These days there seem to a fair number of men willing to be serfs and slaves for women. So if she has some interpersonal skills, maybe she can arrange that too. Whether such a she-man would actually, deeply make Miss Wu feel satisfied and haaapppy … I have my doubts.
  2. While the boys in my elementary school were encouraged to focus on their professional achievement and financial success, I was instructed to cross my legs, minimize my food intake, and coo at plastic babies with fluttering eyelids.

    Odd that her female elementary school teachers in 2003 insisted she conform to an imaginary stereotype of growing up female in 1940.

    • Agree: YetAnotherAnon, res
    • Replies: @DCThrowback
    everyone lies, everyone shills. related question: does Ms. Wu have a history of trolling her readership?
    , @Anon
    I noticed that too.

    You mentioned 1940. In 1940 the average woman high school graduate was better equipped to out into the world and earn a decent living than the average woman college graduate today.

    In 1940 there was something called the Girls Commercial Course. They learned high speed typing, shorthand, book keeping, filing , office management, using and repairing office machines and business manners and deportment.

    They could find a good job right after graduation. Now young women waste
    4 years and $100,000 and end up doing the same job their great grandmothers did without the waste of time and money.

    Only difference is the job title, from secretary to assistant.
    , @Rosamond Vincy
    Unless she grew up in some kind of Fundie cult, this is BS. I'm older than she is, and while I did have dolls (and loved them enough to curl up with all of them every night so no one would feel left out), I also rode bikes, climbed trees, roller skated, and played Hot Wheels with my brother.

    As for crossing my legs, most of us wore jeans, regardless of gender. Anyone who went to parochial school changed into jeans ASAP, and they don't even let you cross your legs there: crossed at the ankles is the standard.
    , @Gerald B
    Yes, I came here to say essentially the same thing. Her online bio says she graduated from college in 2013. So she probably graduated from high school in 2009, which means she was in elementary school from 1997 - 2003.

    "Every cultural signal I encountered featured men at the top of the food chain, giving me the morning news..." Katie Couric anchored the Today show from 1991 - 2006.

    "... accepting Nobel Prizes."
    Physics: Marie Curie 1903, Maria Mayer 1963.

    Chemistry: Marie Curie 1911, Irene Curie 1935, Dorothy Hodgkin 1964.

    Physiology or Medicine: too many to list; the award went to a woman in 1947, 1977, 1983, 1986, 1988, 1995, and six women during the 21st century.

    Literature: nine women before 1996, five since then.

    The Peace Prize: 10 women before 1998, six since then.
    , @Ibound1
    My son went to elementary school in this time period. He was not told to focus on "professional achievement and financial success" by his elementary school teachers. That is laughable. He was told to focus on his homework. Does anyone really imagine elementary school teachers telling 10 year old boys to think about making partner at Goldman Sachs?
    , @Tracy
    Absolutely. I'm a 55-year old female, likely a lot older than she is, and got none of that growing up. Reading something like that is as aggravating as hearing Catholics my age kvetch about how awful their Catholic schools were. None of my cohorts got their knuckles rapped by a nun or got inculcated with "Catholic guilt" over being sexual human beings, but to hear some folks go on, one'd never know it.
  3. Wow, penis envy. Haven’t heard of that in a long time. That went out in the ’80s.

    Remember “frigid women”? Another one. Pop psychology gets dated fast, except back in the day, “penis envy” and “frigid women” were not pop psychology, but the real thing.

  4. This is a new low, even for (((Vox)))

  5. The exception, it proves the rule.

  6. Saw an interesting video of a battle between a pack of hyenas and a pride of lionesses over some recently killed prey. The female led hyenas were getting the upper paw until a young male lion arrived and pounced on the hyena “matriarch”, breaking her back. Following this fatal #MeToo moment for the “matriarch” spotted hyena, the rest of the pack quickly dispersed leaving the prey to the victorious lion “patriarchy”.

    • Replies: @Logan
    Saw, possibly, the same video.

    An individual lioness is a little more powerful than a hyena, but not much. The hyena pack usually outnumbers the pride, so as the video showed they often win.

    But then the twice-size and possibly 4x more powerful lion shows up and starts taking out hyenas with one blow. They scatter and the pride wins.

    This, and of course defending territory against other prides, is the function of the male lion or lions in the pride, even though the females do the great majority of the hunting or production.

    There are fairly clear and obvious parallels to a good many human societies, which doesn't mean we should take the pride of lions as a model for our society. But then there's no reason we should consider the hyena pack an appropriate model either. Especially because when a human society modeled on the hyena pack comes into conflict with one modeled on the lion pride, the pride model wins.

  7. A detail I have never forgotten is that hyenas also give birth through their pseudo-penises.

  8. So should we start calling pre-op trannies ‘hyenas’ now? Respectfully, of course.

  9. Hyenas are repulsive creatures, so Steve may be right that this is trolling with a VERY straight face.

    But the fantasy expressed in the first two paragraphs, about the writer’s upbringing under “the patriarchy (TM)” is all too typical of the genre. The woman is a graduate student, so likely under 30, with formative years in the late 1990s to early 2000s. In what parallel universe were those years a time of patriarchal conformity?

    To the contrary, an issue of that day was the incapacitation of boys through medications like Ritalin; the culture promoted “girl power” (spelled “grrrl,” in a very un-hyena-like growl); and IIRC this was the period that started seeing declines in male college enrollment.

    Yet to listen to the young women editorialists of today, they grew up in “The Handmaid’s Tale.” More so than an index of their self-delusion, it’s a sign of their vanity: a very traditional feminine trait, ironically.

    • Replies: @Anon
    That’s like the 35 year old White disgrace of a male assistant part time college instructor making $12,000 a year telling his students that when he was in college back in 2004 he and his imaginary black friends were not admitted to restaurants bars movies etc.

    It really does happen. White liberals really do make things like that up.
    , @International Jew
    Yep. Says here...
    https://theconversation.com/profiles/katherine-j-wu-399957 ...that she finished college in 2014.
    , @ThirdWorldSteveReader
    Maybe relevant: courses she took in Stanford University, from her linkedin (https://www.linkedin.com/in/katherine-wu-a63a4486):

    Arts Intensive: Fiction Writing (TA)
    Human Nutrition (TA)
    Introduction to Nutrition (TA)
    Sophomore College: The Stanford Safari (TA)
    Stanford SPLASH: Creative Writing (Instructor)
    Stanford SPLASH: Microbial Encounters in Daily Life (Instructor)
    Stanford SPLASH: Monsters Within: Parasitic Worms (Instructor)
     
    , @Abe

    The woman is a graduate student, so likely under 30, with formative years in the late 1990s to early 2000s. In what parallel universe were those years a time of patriarchal conformity?
     
    If I had more time I’d do a parody video of that Foreigner hit, as these peoples’ brains seem to be stuck in some perpetual timewarp- “It feels like it’s ‘49, it feels like it’s 1949!”

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fGCnc2K-DLg

  10. @Kirt
    Saw an interesting video of a battle between a pack of hyenas and a pride of lionesses over some recently killed prey. The female led hyenas were getting the upper paw until a young male lion arrived and pounced on the hyena "matriarch", breaking her back. Following this fatal #MeToo moment for the "matriarch" spotted hyena, the rest of the pack quickly dispersed leaving the prey to the victorious lion "patriarchy".

    Saw, possibly, the same video.

    An individual lioness is a little more powerful than a hyena, but not much. The hyena pack usually outnumbers the pride, so as the video showed they often win.

    But then the twice-size and possibly 4x more powerful lion shows up and starts taking out hyenas with one blow. They scatter and the pride wins.

    This, and of course defending territory against other prides, is the function of the male lion or lions in the pride, even though the females do the great majority of the hunting or production.

    There are fairly clear and obvious parallels to a good many human societies, which doesn’t mean we should take the pride of lions as a model for our society. But then there’s no reason we should consider the hyena pack an appropriate model either. Especially because when a human society modeled on the hyena pack comes into conflict with one modeled on the lion pride, the pride model wins.

    • Replies: @ChrisZ
    Good comment, Logan (and there are quite a few interesting ones on this thread).

    You and Kirt have gotten me interested in seeing that pride-vs-pack video.
    , @Alfa158
    He also assasinated her successor in a manner supposedly uncharacteristic of cats. She spotted him coming for her and took off running. Cats are anaerobic and aren’t supposed to be able to run long distances while dog related animals can. Yet that lion hung in on an extended chase, slowly closed on her until he could reach out a paw to trip her, then break her back as well. The naturalists had no idea lions would run distances like that, but it showed his determination to make sure his harem remained undisturbed. He then went back to enjoying his keeping it real life of kicking back, having females hunt and give him first dibs on the food, fathering many cubs, and fighting other males.
  11. I wonder how Ms. Wu’s dating life is going?

    • Replies: @peterike
    I wonder how Ms. Wu’s dating life is going?

    Well enough. She's not gorgeous by any means, but she's thin and in the upper half for Chinese girls looks (which are, generally, vastly over stated).

    More importantly, she is in the PhD program at Harvard, and is yet another Chinese woman turned into a flaming SJW. Peterike's Law in full effect.

    https://static.projects.iq.harvard.edu/files/styles/os_files_xxlarge/public/marchforscience/files/headshot.png

  12. Would that human females did most of the hunting.

    • Replies: @Forbes
    Well, they do most of the choosing...
  13. There have been human societies led by women in the past. But they were always, ALWAYS conquered by societies led by men. So she would like to impose matriarchy on the United States and the west now? If so, the inevitable will follow shortly. Let’s think through this first, okay?

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Was England conquered by Spain in 1588?
    , @Bugg
    Current "23 and Me" commercial shows an African-American woman wallowing in her faded ancestral glory of a female-led society bringing a male-led tribe to heel. Which again matters today because...something. Problem is of course at some point way back the males had to go out to fight and die while the women raise the kids.

    As an aside, nice to respect where you and yours came from. But it's all a bit much. And this from the same people who wish to pretend race doesn't exist.Pick a position; heredity and race matter or they don't.

    , @Corn
    For them that’s a feature, not a bug.
    , @Jim Don Bob

    There have been human societies led by women in the past.
     
    Ok. There have been the occasional Queen Elizabeth or Empress Catherine, but that is not the same as saying that their societies were matriarchal.
    , @Malcolm X-Lax
    I remember my college anthropology professor telling us that there had never been a matriarchal society in human history. Some feminists in class protested about "male domination" of the scholarship but he responded, quite sensibly, that if anyone could find a true example of one in any time or place, their career would be made. This was way back in the 80s. Has there been any news on this front or are feminists just playing games with definitions?
  14. @Hannah Katz
    There have been human societies led by women in the past. But they were always, ALWAYS conquered by societies led by men. So she would like to impose matriarchy on the United States and the west now? If so, the inevitable will follow shortly. Let's think through this first, okay?

    Was England conquered by Spain in 1588?

    • Replies: @DFH
    No, thanks to the prudent guidance of Baroness Burleigh, Lady Drake and Mrs. Walsingham
    , @Warner
    A woman leader is not the same as a society led by women.

    As far as I know, no society led by women has achieved anything.

    The typical example is some African tribe that starts with an M where women rule all aspects of life. But the fact that that society has grown to three digits worth of people is exactly the non-exception to the rule.
    , @Anon
    Was Cecil a tranny?
    , @Lot
    Hannah said "led by women" and QE1 was a single masculine female in a male-dominated society. She does overstate the point. (Her lust for power, refusal to marry, and multiple lovers says high T.)

    The relatively sex egalitarian Germanic societies overran the more male-dominated Western Roman Empire. Though Rome did have a short period where it was effectively led by a woman, who installed her trannie teenage nephew as Emperor when another relative did not heed her properly.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elagabalus

    That worked out poorly. A gay-leaning bisexual Emperor who was good in battle and statesmanship worked out well (Hadrian).
    , @stillCARealist
    Protestant beats Catholic.

    Francis Drake gets the glory on that, BTW.
    , @ThirdWorldSteveReader
    Elizabeth I had the heart and the stomach of a King, though.

    (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speech_to_the_Troops_at_Tilbury)
    , @AndrewR
    Elizabeth, like all queens regnant, was a figurehead for the male power structure. A cursory study of queens regnant reveals they almost invariably rely more on their spouses and advisors than kings ever do.
    , @julius caesar
    I think the difference is not whether a society is led by a man or a woman but rather whether the society has a masculine culture or a feminine culture. Catherine the Great was ruler of Russia and was probably as hard headed as any male ruler of that times, which may have less to do with her gender and more to do with the culture of her times.

    Contrast that to today's hyper feminine culture, dominated by women with liberal arts degrees. Wouldn't that make society far weaker to deal with existential threats, like defense or mass migration? Merkel saw a million men marching at Berlin and flung open the borders. When thousands of women were sexually assaulted, her government tried to hide it up.

    One picture of a child migrant and all laws must be set aside, because Emotions.
  15. Jezebel did this bit better three years ago.

    https://jezebel.com/introducing-the-pseudopenis-or-why-female-hyenas-are-f-1714981846

    Introducing the Pseudopenis, or Why Female Hyenas Are Feminist as Fuck

    Penis means power. The dominance of dicks and those who have them isn’t a coincidence, or the unavoidable consequence of Big Patriarchy keeping women down—rather, it’s a case of simple biology. In most mammalian embryos, the genital tubercle forms very early, later developing into either a penis or a clitoris, subject to a complex cocktail of influential hormones. Androgens like testosterone stimulate penile growth and are also associated with aggression, so the relationship between actual dicks (penises) and figurative dicks (aggressive jerks) is axiomatic. But amazingly, in the case of female-dominant spotted hyena societies, those boss bitches have actually evolved a sort of penis of their own.

    It’s technically called a “pseudopenis,” and it’s an extreme example of clitoromegaly—essentially a very enlarged clitoris.

    So, for those of you keeping score at home;
    -Penis envy (Hat tip: Daniel H)
    -Penis larping
    -Heartiste’s “clitdicks” trope vindicated
    -Hyena females have very high testosterone levels

    Wikipedia has more info for anyone wary of clicking that Jezebel link.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spotted_hyena#Female_genitalia

    Carlos Slim’s blog had a great article on this 26 years ago.

    https://www.nytimes.com/1992/09/01/science/hyenas-hormone-flow-puts-females-in-charge.html

    While in the womb, male and female fetuses alike are exposed to extraordinarily high levels of male hormones, particularly testosterone. The hormones originate in the mother’s ovaries and pass through the placenta, and they have a dramatic effect on the developing cubs. As a result of the androgen bath, both sexes end up with masculine-looking genitals, the male bearing the standard equipment, the female having an extremely enlarged clitoris that resembles a penis and fused, protuberant vaginal labia that look like a plump pair of testicles. Both sexes can and do get erections at the slightest provocation — when sizing up a stranger, when greeting a friend. But though the two sexes look equal, they are not: the female is in charge……

    The work may also lead to a more sophisticated understanding of the link between hormones and aggression. Hyena cubs, when they emerge from their testosterone-laced uterus, are the most belligerent newborns among mammals, so wired for a fight that they immediately begin attacking one another, often to the death of one.

    Unpleasant, violent, entitled, high-T women, soyboys and mass androgyny. So, yeah, basically feminist utopia.

    It is better to live one day as a lion than 100 years as a hyena.

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh

    Hyena cubs, when they emerge from their testosterone-laced uterus, are the most belligerent newborns among mammals, so wired for a fight that they immediately begin attacking one another, often to the death of one.
     
    I remember watching this - hyena cubs murdering each other with the approval of the mother is disturbing even for the animal world.
    , @Peripatetic commenter
    Perhaps we can simply abbreviate it as: It takes a penis
    , @Rosie

    Unpleasant, violent, entitled, high-T women, soyboys and mass androgyny. So, yeah, basically feminist utopia.
     
    It seems that you think masculinity is some sort of zero sum game? I don't know about hyenas, but that's definitely doesn't seem to be the case among humans. White men think Latinas and Asian women are more feminine than White women, and I suppose there's some truth to that, but if you marry one, she will pass on her femininity to your sons as well as your daughters.
  16. @Patrick Sullivan

    While the boys in my elementary school were encouraged to focus on their professional achievement and financial success, I was instructed to cross my legs, minimize my food intake, and coo at plastic babies with fluttering eyelids.
     
    Odd that her female elementary school teachers in 2003 insisted she conform to an imaginary stereotype of growing up female in 1940.

    everyone lies, everyone shills. related question: does Ms. Wu have a history of trolling her readership?

  17. @Steve Sailer
    Was England conquered by Spain in 1588?

    No, thanks to the prudent guidance of Baroness Burleigh, Lady Drake and Mrs. Walsingham

  18. @DFH
    But humans aren't female spotted hyenas.............................................................

    But how do you know what they identify as? Your cis-species-normativity makes me feel unsafe.

    • LOL: Seamus Padraig
  19. Well I did learn something from the article:

    But there’s one aspect of the spotted hyena matriarchy that appears alarmingly misogynistic at first glance. Look between a lady hyena’s back legs (with her permission, of course), and you’ll find a thick, phallic structure complete with a false scrotum and testes. This is the pseudopenis, a structure so convincing that, for years, researchers wondered if spotted hyenas were hermaphrodites.

    While there are several other species, including elephants, where females have pseudophalluses, those of spotted hyenas are a true feat in mimicry, nearly indistinguishable from the male penis in both length and girth. “It’s not just a slight masculinization,” says biologist Carin Bondar. “We’re seeing the entire reproductive system being dominated.”

    The internal plumbing remains the same, however, which means that females must urinate through the pseudopenis. They must have sex through the pseudopenis. They must even give birth through the pseudopenis. And though it remains flaccid during these acts, the latter two ordeals are just as complicated and painful as they sound.

  20. About the author: “Katherine J. Wu is a PhD student in microbiology and immunobiology at Harvard University”

    First they came for humanities departments in state universities, but I did not speak out because I was an Ivory League biologist…

    • Replies: @Rosamond Vincy
    Oh, they're mucking up STEM now, just like they've done everything else. Pretty soon, you'll have to hide your study results if they demonstrate something the Uni doesn't like. Already happening in some places, to some extent, but it will become the norm.
  21. @Logan
    Saw, possibly, the same video.

    An individual lioness is a little more powerful than a hyena, but not much. The hyena pack usually outnumbers the pride, so as the video showed they often win.

    But then the twice-size and possibly 4x more powerful lion shows up and starts taking out hyenas with one blow. They scatter and the pride wins.

    This, and of course defending territory against other prides, is the function of the male lion or lions in the pride, even though the females do the great majority of the hunting or production.

    There are fairly clear and obvious parallels to a good many human societies, which doesn't mean we should take the pride of lions as a model for our society. But then there's no reason we should consider the hyena pack an appropriate model either. Especially because when a human society modeled on the hyena pack comes into conflict with one modeled on the lion pride, the pride model wins.

    Good comment, Logan (and there are quite a few interesting ones on this thread).

    You and Kirt have gotten me interested in seeing that pride-vs-pack video.

  22. Given the intractable nature of the gender wars, I take solace in the example of the sponge, which reproduces asexually, making mating and the accompanying waste of resources unnecessary.

    Sponges prove the human assumption that sexual reproduction is inevitable — or even natural — completely wrong

  23. Hyaena Hyaena

    In the hyaena (it’s species and genus)
    The bitch sports a counterfeit penis.
    It’s a pretty good joke
    To play on a bloke;
    That’s the reason they laugh like hyaenas.

    • Replies: @Rosamond Vincy
    Coke - it's the Real Thing.
    (Some vowels have been changed to protect the innocent.)
    , @the one they call Desanex
    Oops! I got the striped hyaena (Hyaena hyaena) mixed up with the spotted hyaena (Crocuta crocuta). That trashes my title and first line.
    , @the one they call Desanex
    Let’s lose the title and make the first line “In the Crocuta (it’s species and genus)”.
  24. I think the Democrats will eventually (i.e. by or before 2024) make Clitoromegaly part of the party’s platform.

    Joe Biden will shortly thereafter thank the Jews for making Clitoromegaly mainstream and acceptable in news and entertainment media.

    “You know my Jilly – for most of her life she had normal lady parts and I liked ‘em. But a few years ago she really got on board with Clitoromegaly . . . said she felt somethin’ was missin. Now she has an enormous Clit-dick and I gotta tell you what folks – I love it!”

  25. “Much like the Greek Amazons and Wonder Woman, hyenas are a lineage of queens that prove the human assumption that patriarchies are inevitable — or even natural — completely wrong.”

    This proposes 1. Greek Amazons and Wonder Woman, until now legends and cartoon characters, are real and natural things and 2. a small species of hyenas shows something about human societies. If anyone can unpack this illogic, get back to us.

    • Replies: @ChrisZ
    Great point, Bugg. It’s like the Wakanda delusion of several months back. Sentimental fiction as cited as “proof” of a wished-for “reality.”
  26. But how do fruit flies or jellyfish organize their society and what can we learn from that?

  27. Males don’t help with child rearing, don’t bother hunting or even scavenging. They just eat, chill and bang b*tches. Sounds just terrible! The males don’t even have to put any effort in to sleep with a variety of females – the females just make themselves available and hand over food too. Awful!

    • Replies: @Brutusale
    They ARE in Africa.
  28. @Hannah Katz
    There have been human societies led by women in the past. But they were always, ALWAYS conquered by societies led by men. So she would like to impose matriarchy on the United States and the west now? If so, the inevitable will follow shortly. Let's think through this first, okay?

    Current “23 and Me” commercial shows an African-American woman wallowing in her faded ancestral glory of a female-led society bringing a male-led tribe to heel. Which again matters today because…something. Problem is of course at some point way back the males had to go out to fight and die while the women raise the kids.

    As an aside, nice to respect where you and yours came from. But it’s all a bit much. And this from the same people who wish to pretend race doesn’t exist.Pick a position; heredity and race matter or they don’t.

  29. Interesting that only western women complain about patriarchy

    Looks like white men just cant cut the miustard!

    Democrats have become very angry about the family sepreation evil instigated by the repthiglicans

    https://www.vox.com/2018/6/20/17485162/pew-research-center-poll-immigration-issue-2018-midterms?utm_campaign=vox&utm_content=chorus&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter

  30. @Tyrion 2
    Males don't help with child rearing, don't bother hunting or even scavenging. They just eat, chill and bang b*tches. Sounds just terrible! The males don't even have to put any effort in to sleep with a variety of females - the females just make themselves available and hand over food too. Awful!

    They ARE in Africa.

  31. Unz needs to increase our LOL allowance, there are just too many hilarious stories around these days.

  32. Don’t ya just love it when a big male lion crunches a female hyena?

  33. @Hannah Katz
    There have been human societies led by women in the past. But they were always, ALWAYS conquered by societies led by men. So she would like to impose matriarchy on the United States and the west now? If so, the inevitable will follow shortly. Let's think through this first, okay?

    For them that’s a feature, not a bug.

  34. @Steve Sailer
    Was England conquered by Spain in 1588?

    A woman leader is not the same as a society led by women.

    As far as I know, no society led by women has achieved anything.

    The typical example is some African tribe that starts with an M where women rule all aspects of life. But the fact that that society has grown to three digits worth of people is exactly the non-exception to the rule.

  35. @Arclight
    I wonder how Ms. Wu's dating life is going?

    I wonder how Ms. Wu’s dating life is going?

    Well enough. She’s not gorgeous by any means, but she’s thin and in the upper half for Chinese girls looks (which are, generally, vastly over stated).

    More importantly, she is in the PhD program at Harvard, and is yet another Chinese woman turned into a flaming SJW. Peterike’s Law in full effect.

    • Replies: @Guy in Germany
    What is Peterike's Law? Is it how a lot of Asian women in America go full SJW? Having attended college in the USA, and having taught English to Asians at college in the USA, I have seen this trend of Asian females going full-throttle SJW in a couple years time after getting of the boat. Outside of racial reasons, it is probably the biggest reason I oppose their importation. The apply the same level of "grinding" to SJW themes as they do physics or biology.
    , @Stebbing Heuer
    So, young, pleasant-looking-but-no-looker Chinese woman studying at an Ivy League university draws attention to herself by writing an article with no point but to demonstrate how on-side she is with the zeitgeist?

    Quelle fracking surprise.

    If I had a dollar for every time ...
    , @Chrisnonymous

    and in the upper half for Chinese girls looks (which are, generally, vastly over stated).
     
    I used to have a lower opinion of Chinese girls, too, until I traveled more in Asia. This particular one is definitely not doing so well, sporting, as she does:

    *crossed eyes
    *acne
    *asymmetrical face
    *bulbous, suspiciously central-Asian-looking nose
    *oversized jaw
    *small eyes
    *thin lips

    Virtually the only things she really has going for her are pretty decent teeth and reasonably longish neck.

    In the past, if you had asked me, I would have rated Chinese girls very low, below Thais. Since traveling more in Asia, my opinion has changed quite a bit. Chinese, Koreans, and Mongolians are very under-appreciated in the US, while Japanese, Filipinos, and SE Asians are over-rated. Our impressions of East Asians are affected by the relative lack of affluence in NE Asia over the last few decades.
  36. @Steve Sailer
    Was England conquered by Spain in 1588?

    Was Cecil a tranny?

    • Agree: AndrewR
    • Replies: @Paul Jolliffe
    Who knows, but a more interesting question remains: how did William Cecil's daughter Anne get pregnant in 1575 when her husband, Edward de Vere, was abroad in Europe? De Vere believed that he was not the biological father of Elizabeth Vere, and he was almost certainly right.

    So who?

    A certain scene from a famous 1974 movie comes to mind . . .

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wnrdetFAo1o
  37. @Gunnar von Cowtown
    Jezebel did this bit better three years ago.
    https://jezebel.com/introducing-the-pseudopenis-or-why-female-hyenas-are-f-1714981846

    Introducing the Pseudopenis, or Why Female Hyenas Are Feminist as Fuck

    Penis means power. The dominance of dicks and those who have them isn’t a coincidence, or the unavoidable consequence of Big Patriarchy keeping women down—rather, it’s a case of simple biology. In most mammalian embryos, the genital tubercle forms very early, later developing into either a penis or a clitoris, subject to a complex cocktail of influential hormones. Androgens like testosterone stimulate penile growth and are also associated with aggression, so the relationship between actual dicks (penises) and figurative dicks (aggressive jerks) is axiomatic. But amazingly, in the case of female-dominant spotted hyena societies, those boss bitches have actually evolved a sort of penis of their own.

    It’s technically called a “pseudopenis,” and it’s an extreme example of clitoromegaly—essentially a very enlarged clitoris.
     

    So, for those of you keeping score at home;
    -Penis envy (Hat tip: Daniel H)
    -Penis larping
    -Heartiste's "clitdicks" trope vindicated
    -Hyena females have very high testosterone levels

    Wikipedia has more info for anyone wary of clicking that Jezebel link.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spotted_hyena#Female_genitalia

    Carlos Slim's blog had a great article on this 26 years ago.
    https://www.nytimes.com/1992/09/01/science/hyenas-hormone-flow-puts-females-in-charge.html


    While in the womb, male and female fetuses alike are exposed to extraordinarily high levels of male hormones, particularly testosterone. The hormones originate in the mother's ovaries and pass through the placenta, and they have a dramatic effect on the developing cubs. As a result of the androgen bath, both sexes end up with masculine-looking genitals, the male bearing the standard equipment, the female having an extremely enlarged clitoris that resembles a penis and fused, protuberant vaginal labia that look like a plump pair of testicles. Both sexes can and do get erections at the slightest provocation -- when sizing up a stranger, when greeting a friend. But though the two sexes look equal, they are not: the female is in charge......

    The work may also lead to a more sophisticated understanding of the link between hormones and aggression. Hyena cubs, when they emerge from their testosterone-laced uterus, are the most belligerent newborns among mammals, so wired for a fight that they immediately begin attacking one another, often to the death of one.
     

    Unpleasant, violent, entitled, high-T women, soyboys and mass androgyny. So, yeah, basically feminist utopia.

    It is better to live one day as a lion than 100 years as a hyena.

    Hyena cubs, when they emerge from their testosterone-laced uterus, are the most belligerent newborns among mammals, so wired for a fight that they immediately begin attacking one another, often to the death of one.

    I remember watching this – hyena cubs murdering each other with the approval of the mother is disturbing even for the animal world.

  38. Lot says:
    @Steve Sailer
    Was England conquered by Spain in 1588?

    Hannah said “led by women” and QE1 was a single masculine female in a male-dominated society. She does overstate the point. (Her lust for power, refusal to marry, and multiple lovers says high T.)

    The relatively sex egalitarian Germanic societies overran the more male-dominated Western Roman Empire. Though Rome did have a short period where it was effectively led by a woman, who installed her trannie teenage nephew as Emperor when another relative did not heed her properly.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elagabalus

    That worked out poorly. A gay-leaning bisexual Emperor who was good in battle and statesmanship worked out well (Hadrian).

    • Replies: @YetAnotherAnon
    "Her lust for power, refusal to marry, and multiple lovers says high T."

    I think you're confusing her with Catherine The Great. QE1 had many 'lovers' aka admirers whose admiration was reciprocated - but AFAIK she wasn't called The Virgin Queen for nowt.

    I think having her mother AND stepmother executed by her father (and then being 'groomed' during puberty by her stepfather with her stepmother's seeming connivance) probably had something to do with a reluctance to marry. She told Leicester (one of her 'lovers') at the age of eight that she would never marry.
    , @Samuel Skinner

    QE1 was a single masculine female in a male-dominated society.
     
    Competent female leadership is found when said women has the approval of an alpha male (because in its absence women break stuff in order to smoke out who is alpha enough to stop her). Queen Elizabeth lived until 1603. From her coronation until 1598 she was advised by William Cecil.

    The relatively sex egalitarian Germanic societies overran the more male-dominated Western Roman Empire.
     
    Other way around. The male position grew weaker over time; (wiki)
    --
    In the Early Republic, a wife was "handed over" to the legal control of her husband in the form of marriage cum manu (Latin cum manu means "with hand"). If the man divorced his wife, he had to give the dowry back to his wife and her family.[10] By the Late Republic, manus marriage had become rare, and a woman legally remained part of her birth family.[11]
    --
  39. It would actually be better for her hypothesis if there were hyena packs where male hyenas led. Because that would imply that sex roles are not determined by biology.

    • Replies: @Peripatetic commenter
    Perhaps women cannot understand logic.
  40. @Logan
    Saw, possibly, the same video.

    An individual lioness is a little more powerful than a hyena, but not much. The hyena pack usually outnumbers the pride, so as the video showed they often win.

    But then the twice-size and possibly 4x more powerful lion shows up and starts taking out hyenas with one blow. They scatter and the pride wins.

    This, and of course defending territory against other prides, is the function of the male lion or lions in the pride, even though the females do the great majority of the hunting or production.

    There are fairly clear and obvious parallels to a good many human societies, which doesn't mean we should take the pride of lions as a model for our society. But then there's no reason we should consider the hyena pack an appropriate model either. Especially because when a human society modeled on the hyena pack comes into conflict with one modeled on the lion pride, the pride model wins.

    He also assasinated her successor in a manner supposedly uncharacteristic of cats. She spotted him coming for her and took off running. Cats are anaerobic and aren’t supposed to be able to run long distances while dog related animals can. Yet that lion hung in on an extended chase, slowly closed on her until he could reach out a paw to trip her, then break her back as well. The naturalists had no idea lions would run distances like that, but it showed his determination to make sure his harem remained undisturbed. He then went back to enjoying his keeping it real life of kicking back, having females hunt and give him first dibs on the food, fathering many cubs, and fighting other males.

    • LOL: bomag
    • Replies: @Trashcanjack
    Hyenas sure do look like dogs/wolves/bears but they actually aren't related. Canines and felines are closer to each other than either is to hyenas. Whole different lineage. Which makes sense, given their bizarre reproductive deal.
  41. @Lot
    Hannah said "led by women" and QE1 was a single masculine female in a male-dominated society. She does overstate the point. (Her lust for power, refusal to marry, and multiple lovers says high T.)

    The relatively sex egalitarian Germanic societies overran the more male-dominated Western Roman Empire. Though Rome did have a short period where it was effectively led by a woman, who installed her trannie teenage nephew as Emperor when another relative did not heed her properly.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elagabalus

    That worked out poorly. A gay-leaning bisexual Emperor who was good in battle and statesmanship worked out well (Hadrian).

    “Her lust for power, refusal to marry, and multiple lovers says high T.”

    I think you’re confusing her with Catherine The Great. QE1 had many ‘lovers’ aka admirers whose admiration was reciprocated – but AFAIK she wasn’t called The Virgin Queen for nowt.

    I think having her mother AND stepmother executed by her father (and then being ‘groomed’ during puberty by her stepfather with her stepmother’s seeming connivance) probably had something to do with a reluctance to marry. She told Leicester (one of her ‘lovers’) at the age of eight that she would never marry.

    • Replies: @Rosamond Vincy
    I suspect you are right. She loved to flirt, and there may even have been some of what we now call "making out," but she probably remained a Technical.

    Victoria, on the other hand, was quite passionately (in every sense of the word) in love with Albert, and like Bess, was a strong queen who both argued with and listened to her--male--councillors. Nor was she a feminist: she was disgusted by the "mad, wicked folly" of "Women's Rights," and her power was based on heredity, not gender.
    , @snorlax
    She was called "the Virgin Queen" because insinuating that the Queen was not protecting her womanly virtue was a good way to be simultaneously castrated and disemboweled with rusty hooks after several dates with the rack.
  42. @Lot
    Hannah said "led by women" and QE1 was a single masculine female in a male-dominated society. She does overstate the point. (Her lust for power, refusal to marry, and multiple lovers says high T.)

    The relatively sex egalitarian Germanic societies overran the more male-dominated Western Roman Empire. Though Rome did have a short period where it was effectively led by a woman, who installed her trannie teenage nephew as Emperor when another relative did not heed her properly.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elagabalus

    That worked out poorly. A gay-leaning bisexual Emperor who was good in battle and statesmanship worked out well (Hadrian).

    QE1 was a single masculine female in a male-dominated society.

    Competent female leadership is found when said women has the approval of an alpha male (because in its absence women break stuff in order to smoke out who is alpha enough to stop her). Queen Elizabeth lived until 1603. From her coronation until 1598 she was advised by William Cecil.

    The relatively sex egalitarian Germanic societies overran the more male-dominated Western Roman Empire.

    Other way around. The male position grew weaker over time; (wiki)

    In the Early Republic, a wife was “handed over” to the legal control of her husband in the form of marriage cum manu (Latin cum manu means “with hand”). If the man divorced his wife, he had to give the dowry back to his wife and her family.[10] By the Late Republic, manus marriage had become rare, and a woman legally remained part of her birth family.[11]

    • Replies: @Rosie

    Competent female leadership is found when said women has the approval of an alpha male (because in its absence women break stuff in order to smoke out who is alpha enough to stop her).
     
    Evidence?

    I remember Black Pigeon saying White women wanted immigrants to come and out their men to the test. It would seem that is no longer a tenable position post-2016.

  43. That said, I think it is interesting in a way.

    Consider why sexual reproduction evolved: its basically a way to select for positive characteristics while ensuring a kind of genetic stability. The converse, asexuality, is essentially genetic cloning and suffers freak wipeouts much like any monocultural crops. It significantly increases harmful mutations in nature since anything not immediately fatal gets replicated; this is why even creatures capable of parthenogenesis essentially preferentially opt for sexual reproduction.

    In mammal this is more streamlined with the more unstable and faster evolving XY males being the “risk” takers, and XX being the more stable line. XY competition leads to a generally best balance for faster, but beneficial selection/mutations. The males are more experimentation and die out more, but winners impregnate more and can spread their beneficial genes.

    The important part in “female dominance” for hyenas would be that it indicates female selection and therefore male “winners” won’t impregnate as many. Therefore, hyenas necessarily need additional forms of selection, which probably helps account for the brutality of their behaviors. It selects for females, who must always prioritize their cubs to a pretty extreme level.

    • Replies: @res
    Interesting comment. Thanks. Any idea if what you describe has been discussed in the biological literature?
    , @Peripatetic commenter

    Consider why sexual reproduction evolved: its basically a way to select for positive characteristics while ensuring a kind of genetic stability.
     
    This is not the dominant view, I believe.

    Rather, sexual reproduction reshuffles genetic combinations quite comprehensively and allows a population to keep ahead of parasites of all sorts while throwing up plenty of variation for selection to work from. Further, they allow useful new genes to spread throughout the population relatively more quickly.
    , @ThirdWorldSteveReader

    Therefore, hyenas necessarily need additional forms of selection, which probably helps account for the brutality of their behaviors.
     
    This makes sense. I found this article that states, among many interesting things (https://academic.oup.com/beheco/article/16/3/606/190314):

    Survivorship of cubs from birth through their first year was examined as a function of litter size, sex of cubs, and maternal rank. Overall, cub mortality was high (61%).
     

    Documented causes of mortality included intraclan infanticide, disease, orphaning, predation by lions, and a mechanism of filial infanticide that has not been previously described in this species: selective litter reduction by mothers via partial litter abandonment. No instances of facultative or obligate siblicide were detected.
     
    Also, this other article (http://science.sciencemag.org/content/252/5006/702)

    Neonates display elevated androgen levels, precocial motor development, and fully erupted front teeth. Litters are usually twins, and siblings fight violently at birth, apparently leading to the death of one sibling in same-sex litters, whereas in mixed-sex litters both siblings usually survive.
     
    A peaceful, empathetic, female-led existence indeed.
  44. Perhaps in her next life she will come back as a spotted hyena. Sounds like that would make her happy.

  45. @Daniel Chieh
    That said, I think it is interesting in a way.

    Consider why sexual reproduction evolved: its basically a way to select for positive characteristics while ensuring a kind of genetic stability. The converse, asexuality, is essentially genetic cloning and suffers freak wipeouts much like any monocultural crops. It significantly increases harmful mutations in nature since anything not immediately fatal gets replicated; this is why even creatures capable of parthenogenesis essentially preferentially opt for sexual reproduction.

    In mammal this is more streamlined with the more unstable and faster evolving XY males being the "risk" takers, and XX being the more stable line. XY competition leads to a generally best balance for faster, but beneficial selection/mutations. The males are more experimentation and die out more, but winners impregnate more and can spread their beneficial genes.

    The important part in "female dominance" for hyenas would be that it indicates female selection and therefore male "winners" won't impregnate as many. Therefore, hyenas necessarily need additional forms of selection, which probably helps account for the brutality of their behaviors. It selects for females, who must always prioritize their cubs to a pretty extreme level.

    Interesting comment. Thanks. Any idea if what you describe has been discussed in the biological literature?

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    Bits and pieces. The evolution of sexual versus asexuality is something discussed - also how it occasionally reverts, such as in dandelions. Probably the ultimate version seems to be the ants, where the production of drones doesn't allow for much genetic divergence and all members are daughters of the queen. Sheer numbers probably helps with monoculture issues, though I recall that drones still need a "mating flight" so there's still a genetic spellcheck there(same for the queen).

    XY differentiation is taken from Smart and SeXXY ; something worth considering is that birds are the opposite, I believe, with XA females and XX males. Its female selection(males sing, dance, etc) but males are still often dominant in some species(very obvious with crows, with huge males).
  46. @Gunnar von Cowtown
    Jezebel did this bit better three years ago.
    https://jezebel.com/introducing-the-pseudopenis-or-why-female-hyenas-are-f-1714981846

    Introducing the Pseudopenis, or Why Female Hyenas Are Feminist as Fuck

    Penis means power. The dominance of dicks and those who have them isn’t a coincidence, or the unavoidable consequence of Big Patriarchy keeping women down—rather, it’s a case of simple biology. In most mammalian embryos, the genital tubercle forms very early, later developing into either a penis or a clitoris, subject to a complex cocktail of influential hormones. Androgens like testosterone stimulate penile growth and are also associated with aggression, so the relationship between actual dicks (penises) and figurative dicks (aggressive jerks) is axiomatic. But amazingly, in the case of female-dominant spotted hyena societies, those boss bitches have actually evolved a sort of penis of their own.

    It’s technically called a “pseudopenis,” and it’s an extreme example of clitoromegaly—essentially a very enlarged clitoris.
     

    So, for those of you keeping score at home;
    -Penis envy (Hat tip: Daniel H)
    -Penis larping
    -Heartiste's "clitdicks" trope vindicated
    -Hyena females have very high testosterone levels

    Wikipedia has more info for anyone wary of clicking that Jezebel link.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spotted_hyena#Female_genitalia

    Carlos Slim's blog had a great article on this 26 years ago.
    https://www.nytimes.com/1992/09/01/science/hyenas-hormone-flow-puts-females-in-charge.html


    While in the womb, male and female fetuses alike are exposed to extraordinarily high levels of male hormones, particularly testosterone. The hormones originate in the mother's ovaries and pass through the placenta, and they have a dramatic effect on the developing cubs. As a result of the androgen bath, both sexes end up with masculine-looking genitals, the male bearing the standard equipment, the female having an extremely enlarged clitoris that resembles a penis and fused, protuberant vaginal labia that look like a plump pair of testicles. Both sexes can and do get erections at the slightest provocation -- when sizing up a stranger, when greeting a friend. But though the two sexes look equal, they are not: the female is in charge......

    The work may also lead to a more sophisticated understanding of the link between hormones and aggression. Hyena cubs, when they emerge from their testosterone-laced uterus, are the most belligerent newborns among mammals, so wired for a fight that they immediately begin attacking one another, often to the death of one.
     

    Unpleasant, violent, entitled, high-T women, soyboys and mass androgyny. So, yeah, basically feminist utopia.

    It is better to live one day as a lion than 100 years as a hyena.

    Perhaps we can simply abbreviate it as: It takes a penis

  47. The Amazons, if they existed, were not Greeks. Most likely some spinoff subset of unattractive female Scythians battling the patriarchy.

  48. @res
    Interesting comment. Thanks. Any idea if what you describe has been discussed in the biological literature?

    Bits and pieces. The evolution of sexual versus asexuality is something discussed – also how it occasionally reverts, such as in dandelions. Probably the ultimate version seems to be the ants, where the production of drones doesn’t allow for much genetic divergence and all members are daughters of the queen. Sheer numbers probably helps with monoculture issues, though I recall that drones still need a “mating flight” so there’s still a genetic spellcheck there(same for the queen).

    XY differentiation is taken from Smart and SeXXY ; something worth considering is that birds are the opposite, I believe, with XA females and XX males. Its female selection(males sing, dance, etc) but males are still often dominant in some species(very obvious with crows, with huge males).

    • Replies: @Peripatetic commenter
    Mammals: Generally XY/XX although some Muntjac species are Y/absent. (That is, males in one species have a diploid number of 7 chromosomes while females have a diploid number of 6 chromosomes.)

    Birds: Use a ZW system, where ZZ individuals are male and ZW are female.

    Reptiles and amphibs use both environmental sex determination as well as genetic sex determination (GSD) and some (at least one, Rana Rugosa) uses GSD with some pops using ZY and some pops using ZW.

    This paper gives lots more info:

    https://www.cell.com/current-biology/pdf/S0960-9822(06)01996-8.pdf
    , @Anon
    Ever seen a gander the male goose? 3 times as big as the girls and as aggressive as a pit bull. Before those chicken warehouses, farmers kept a few ganders around to fight off the foxes and raccoons at night. They did a good job too. They were widely used as watchmen.

    All hail male power.
    , @Abe

    The evolution of sexual versus asexuality is something discussed – also how it occasionally reverts, such as in dandelions.
     
    Or Hillary.
  49. @Daniel Chieh
    That said, I think it is interesting in a way.

    Consider why sexual reproduction evolved: its basically a way to select for positive characteristics while ensuring a kind of genetic stability. The converse, asexuality, is essentially genetic cloning and suffers freak wipeouts much like any monocultural crops. It significantly increases harmful mutations in nature since anything not immediately fatal gets replicated; this is why even creatures capable of parthenogenesis essentially preferentially opt for sexual reproduction.

    In mammal this is more streamlined with the more unstable and faster evolving XY males being the "risk" takers, and XX being the more stable line. XY competition leads to a generally best balance for faster, but beneficial selection/mutations. The males are more experimentation and die out more, but winners impregnate more and can spread their beneficial genes.

    The important part in "female dominance" for hyenas would be that it indicates female selection and therefore male "winners" won't impregnate as many. Therefore, hyenas necessarily need additional forms of selection, which probably helps account for the brutality of their behaviors. It selects for females, who must always prioritize their cubs to a pretty extreme level.

    Consider why sexual reproduction evolved: its basically a way to select for positive characteristics while ensuring a kind of genetic stability.

    This is not the dominant view, I believe.

    Rather, sexual reproduction reshuffles genetic combinations quite comprehensively and allows a population to keep ahead of parasites of all sorts while throwing up plenty of variation for selection to work from. Further, they allow useful new genes to spread throughout the population relatively more quickly.

    • Agree: Lot
    • Replies: @Peripatetic commenter
    For example, see here:

    http://journals.plos.org/plosbiology/article?id=10.1371/journal.pbio.1001899

    One major role of sex is to bring together alleles carried by different individuals, revealing beneficial genetic variance that is otherwise hidden [2].
     
    , @Daniel Chieh
    The genetic stability part came from a paper I read which found that, surprisingly, asexual microorganisms actually had a lot of variation - not necessarily good variation, just variation, since there was no selection for reproduction and any changes would be copied to the next generation. I believe they tested with irradiation and found that asexual species took the damage worse over generations than sexual ones.
  50. This is why the strap-on was invented.

    • Replies: @Anon7
    I wonder if Ms. Wu understands just how deep the hate-filled wish that is Penis Envy goes? What a waste of time it is to send women to school. Even the “smart” ones use the abilities conferred on them (the ability to read, follow the logic of science, etc.) to go deeper into craziness.

    I also wonder how many men read her article and understand how revealing it is. This really is the feminist plan for America and the world.
  51. @Hannah Katz
    There have been human societies led by women in the past. But they were always, ALWAYS conquered by societies led by men. So she would like to impose matriarchy on the United States and the west now? If so, the inevitable will follow shortly. Let's think through this first, okay?

    There have been human societies led by women in the past.

    Ok. There have been the occasional Queen Elizabeth or Empress Catherine, but that is not the same as saying that their societies were matriarchal.

  52. Like Wonder Woman comics that show women in revealing underwear getting restrained like John Willie’s Perils of Gwendoline, and Xena, Warrior Princess implies lesbianism, the Hyena is the new biological proof of female dominance. The scavenger, the ravenous bully and of course the insane cackling and giggling. The Hyena proves that man hating lesbians will take any creature from nature that doesn’t seem male dominated and take it to mean that the whole of nature is meaningless in the face of cherry picked data taken out of context.

    Katie Wu is the new face of biological feminist theory. The albino hyena of penis envy.

    • Replies: @Rosamond Vincy
    OK, but who the hell would want to be a hyena?

    They're figures of contempt in both Lion King and The Life of Pi. Maybe some fear, but mostly contempt.

    They're also ugly as @#$&.
  53. I was in the process of seriously trashing Ms. Wu’s thesis, but then I encountered this sentence:

    “The internal plumbing remains the same, however, which means that females must urinate through the pseudopenis. They must have sex through the pseudopenis. They must even give birth through the pseudopenis. And though it remains flaccid during these acts, the latter two ordeals are just as complicated and painful as they sound.”

    https://youtube.com/watch?v=oMR21z5Xz3k

    Holy crap. I’ve had kidney stones, not even three pound stones, and let me tell you it’s no picnic.

    #natureislitaf

  54. @DFH
    But humans aren't female spotted hyenas.............................................................

    Some human females do come close . . . .

  55. @Steve Sailer
    Was England conquered by Spain in 1588?

    Protestant beats Catholic.

    Francis Drake gets the glory on that, BTW.

  56. @Daniel Chieh
    Bits and pieces. The evolution of sexual versus asexuality is something discussed - also how it occasionally reverts, such as in dandelions. Probably the ultimate version seems to be the ants, where the production of drones doesn't allow for much genetic divergence and all members are daughters of the queen. Sheer numbers probably helps with monoculture issues, though I recall that drones still need a "mating flight" so there's still a genetic spellcheck there(same for the queen).

    XY differentiation is taken from Smart and SeXXY ; something worth considering is that birds are the opposite, I believe, with XA females and XX males. Its female selection(males sing, dance, etc) but males are still often dominant in some species(very obvious with crows, with huge males).

    Mammals: Generally XY/XX although some Muntjac species are Y/absent. (That is, males in one species have a diploid number of 7 chromosomes while females have a diploid number of 6 chromosomes.)

    Birds: Use a ZW system, where ZZ individuals are male and ZW are female.

    Reptiles and amphibs use both environmental sex determination as well as genetic sex determination (GSD) and some (at least one, Rana Rugosa) uses GSD with some pops using ZY and some pops using ZW.

    This paper gives lots more info:

    https://www.cell.com/current-biology/pdf/S0960-9822(06)01996-8.pdf

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    Thank you.
  57. Great video of a male lion killing a hyena.

  58. @Hannah Katz
    There have been human societies led by women in the past. But they were always, ALWAYS conquered by societies led by men. So she would like to impose matriarchy on the United States and the west now? If so, the inevitable will follow shortly. Let's think through this first, okay?

    I remember my college anthropology professor telling us that there had never been a matriarchal society in human history. Some feminists in class protested about “male domination” of the scholarship but he responded, quite sensibly, that if anyone could find a true example of one in any time or place, their career would be made. This was way back in the 80s. Has there been any news on this front or are feminists just playing games with definitions?

    • Replies: @Rosamond Vincy
    No woman who remembers Jr. High wants a society dominated by females.
    , @John Carr
    Like the man said -
    Matrilineality is a word describing a social system in which descent is traced through the female line and is found in a number of societies around the world.
    Matrilocality is a word describing a social system in which a married couple resides with or near the wife's parents and is found in a number of societies around the world.
    Matriarchy is a word describing a social system in which females hold the primary power positions and is found in a dictionary.
  59. In the same way the gun grabbers have dropped the facade and started openly calling for repeal of the second amendment and gun confiscation, even more mainstream feminists are now calling for female domination rather than equality.
    Imagine being governed by your friendly local HR department.

    • Replies: @Joe Stalin
    "In the US laws now destroy law and the liberty that once was protected by law."

    "Where is our protection when the law is cut down?"

    - Paul C. Roberts

    In order to preserve our liberties, each of us must become an advocate of them, and by that each of us potential Jury Members must insist on the exercise of our right to practice Judicial Nullification.

    Yes, the government can pass their anti-gun "laws," have their MSM support said "laws," have their Judiciary uphold such "laws" in their Courts, but the citizen in the Jury box still retains their right to provide the final bulwark to such illegality.
    , @Achmed E. Newman
    Yeah, about the HR ladies, the Scourge of the Business World. ( Part 2, Toby Flenderson, and Part 3)
  60. When I read Alvin Toffler’s Future Shock, I don’t remember reading that the pseudo-penises of hyenas will be a model for our future post-industrial society. I guess the hyenas will have the last laugh.

  61. She will need inspirational tales of feminism in the animal world after reading this classic Onion article:

    https://www.theonion.com/study-finds-sexism-rampant-in-nature-1819566369

    That’s one of the top five funniest ever on that site.

    • Replies: @Rosamond Vincy
    There was one about a bunch of feminists simultaneously ovulating at a Sarah Mclachlan concert that's an all-time classic.
  62. @DFH
    But humans aren't female spotted hyenas.............................................................

    She does know Wonder Woman is fiction, right?

    Now that I think about, she may not. Wow.

    • Replies: @syonredux

    She does know Wonder Woman is fiction, right?

    Now that I think about, she may not. Wow.

     

    Well, she does seem to think that the Amazons were real....

    Much like the Greek Amazons and Wonder Woman, hyenas are a lineage of queens that prove the human assumption that patriarchies are inevitable — or even natural — completely wrong.
     
    , @Half Canadian
    Forget Wonder Woman (which was created a bondage fetish wish fulfillment by a misogynistic man), the Amazonian Greeks were fictional.
    An appeal to fiction is the last refuge of the scoundrel.
  63. @Steve Sailer
    Was England conquered by Spain in 1588?

    Elizabeth I had the heart and the stomach of a King, though.

    (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speech_to_the_Troops_at_Tilbury)

  64. Anon[257] • Disclaimer says:
    @Patrick Sullivan

    While the boys in my elementary school were encouraged to focus on their professional achievement and financial success, I was instructed to cross my legs, minimize my food intake, and coo at plastic babies with fluttering eyelids.
     
    Odd that her female elementary school teachers in 2003 insisted she conform to an imaginary stereotype of growing up female in 1940.

    I noticed that too.

    You mentioned 1940. In 1940 the average woman high school graduate was better equipped to out into the world and earn a decent living than the average woman college graduate today.

    In 1940 there was something called the Girls Commercial Course. They learned high speed typing, shorthand, book keeping, filing , office management, using and repairing office machines and business manners and deportment.

    They could find a good job right after graduation. Now young women waste
    4 years and $100,000 and end up doing the same job their great grandmothers did without the waste of time and money.

    Only difference is the job title, from secretary to assistant.

    • Replies: @Rosamond Vincy
    The also had Home Ec classes where they learned how to cook, clean, sew, and care for children.
  65. @Buzz Mohawk
    This is why the strap-on was invented.

    I wonder if Ms. Wu understands just how deep the hate-filled wish that is Penis Envy goes? What a waste of time it is to send women to school. Even the “smart” ones use the abilities conferred on them (the ability to read, follow the logic of science, etc.) to go deeper into craziness.

    I also wonder how many men read her article and understand how revealing it is. This really is the feminist plan for America and the world.

    • Replies: @Rosie

    I wonder if Ms. Wu understands just how deep the hate-filled wish that is Penis Envy goes? What a waste of time it is to send women to school. Even the “smart” ones use the abilities conferred on them (the ability to read, follow the logic of science, etc.) to go deeper into craziness.
     
    At least you're honest about the logical implications of dissident Right misogyny.

    I'm sure hostile elite control of every level of education in the West has nothing whatsoever to do with it.
  66. Anon[257] • Disclaimer says:
    @ChrisZ
    Hyenas are repulsive creatures, so Steve may be right that this is trolling with a VERY straight face.

    But the fantasy expressed in the first two paragraphs, about the writer’s upbringing under “the patriarchy (TM)” is all too typical of the genre. The woman is a graduate student, so likely under 30, with formative years in the late 1990s to early 2000s. In what parallel universe were those years a time of patriarchal conformity?

    To the contrary, an issue of that day was the incapacitation of boys through medications like Ritalin; the culture promoted “girl power” (spelled “grrrl,” in a very un-hyena-like growl); and IIRC this was the period that started seeing declines in male college enrollment.

    Yet to listen to the young women editorialists of today, they grew up in “The Handmaid’s Tale.” More so than an index of their self-delusion, it’s a sign of their vanity: a very traditional feminine trait, ironically.

    That’s like the 35 year old White disgrace of a male assistant part time college instructor making $12,000 a year telling his students that when he was in college back in 2004 he and his imaginary black friends were not admitted to restaurants bars movies etc.

    It really does happen. White liberals really do make things like that up.

  67. @ChrisZ
    Hyenas are repulsive creatures, so Steve may be right that this is trolling with a VERY straight face.

    But the fantasy expressed in the first two paragraphs, about the writer’s upbringing under “the patriarchy (TM)” is all too typical of the genre. The woman is a graduate student, so likely under 30, with formative years in the late 1990s to early 2000s. In what parallel universe were those years a time of patriarchal conformity?

    To the contrary, an issue of that day was the incapacitation of boys through medications like Ritalin; the culture promoted “girl power” (spelled “grrrl,” in a very un-hyena-like growl); and IIRC this was the period that started seeing declines in male college enrollment.

    Yet to listen to the young women editorialists of today, they grew up in “The Handmaid’s Tale.” More so than an index of their self-delusion, it’s a sign of their vanity: a very traditional feminine trait, ironically.

    Yep. Says here…
    https://theconversation.com/profiles/katherine-j-wu-399957 …that she finished college in 2014.

  68. Instead of studying hyenas I used my hetero female power to send hundreds of big, aggressive violent men to prison for the crimes they committed.

    So who has more power you stupid liberal dyke?

    Male and female lions work together. Maybe that’s why they are so successful.

  69. @narrenspeise
    Would that human females did most of the hunting.

    Well, they do most of the choosing…

  70. @Daniel Chieh
    That said, I think it is interesting in a way.

    Consider why sexual reproduction evolved: its basically a way to select for positive characteristics while ensuring a kind of genetic stability. The converse, asexuality, is essentially genetic cloning and suffers freak wipeouts much like any monocultural crops. It significantly increases harmful mutations in nature since anything not immediately fatal gets replicated; this is why even creatures capable of parthenogenesis essentially preferentially opt for sexual reproduction.

    In mammal this is more streamlined with the more unstable and faster evolving XY males being the "risk" takers, and XX being the more stable line. XY competition leads to a generally best balance for faster, but beneficial selection/mutations. The males are more experimentation and die out more, but winners impregnate more and can spread their beneficial genes.

    The important part in "female dominance" for hyenas would be that it indicates female selection and therefore male "winners" won't impregnate as many. Therefore, hyenas necessarily need additional forms of selection, which probably helps account for the brutality of their behaviors. It selects for females, who must always prioritize their cubs to a pretty extreme level.

    Therefore, hyenas necessarily need additional forms of selection, which probably helps account for the brutality of their behaviors.

    This makes sense. I found this article that states, among many interesting things (https://academic.oup.com/beheco/article/16/3/606/190314):

    Survivorship of cubs from birth through their first year was examined as a function of litter size, sex of cubs, and maternal rank. Overall, cub mortality was high (61%).

    Documented causes of mortality included intraclan infanticide, disease, orphaning, predation by lions, and a mechanism of filial infanticide that has not been previously described in this species: selective litter reduction by mothers via partial litter abandonment. No instances of facultative or obligate siblicide were detected.

    Also, this other article (http://science.sciencemag.org/content/252/5006/702)

    Neonates display elevated androgen levels, precocial motor development, and fully erupted front teeth. Litters are usually twins, and siblings fight violently at birth, apparently leading to the death of one sibling in same-sex litters, whereas in mixed-sex litters both siblings usually survive.

    A peaceful, empathetic, female-led existence indeed.

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    It really does sound like they are as alien to us as lizards. Lionesses, in comparison, display even the maladaptive empathy that we can see as kindness - such as when they attempt to adopt young prey animals as replacement cubs.
    , @Rosie

    A peaceful, empathetic, female-led existence indeed.
     
    I don't think you can hang that one on the females. Excess testosterone (toxic masculinity) would seem to be the culprit.
  71. Jordan Peterson’s lobster analogy is sounding pretty legit right now

  72. This is insane. She latches on to one of the weirdest mammals on earth, and proposes it as a model for humans? Maybe her next article will be about female mantises, which kill their mates immediately after copulation.

    • Replies: @Rosamond Vincy
    Don't give her ideas.
  73. Anon[257] • Disclaimer says:
    @Daniel Chieh
    Bits and pieces. The evolution of sexual versus asexuality is something discussed - also how it occasionally reverts, such as in dandelions. Probably the ultimate version seems to be the ants, where the production of drones doesn't allow for much genetic divergence and all members are daughters of the queen. Sheer numbers probably helps with monoculture issues, though I recall that drones still need a "mating flight" so there's still a genetic spellcheck there(same for the queen).

    XY differentiation is taken from Smart and SeXXY ; something worth considering is that birds are the opposite, I believe, with XA females and XX males. Its female selection(males sing, dance, etc) but males are still often dominant in some species(very obvious with crows, with huge males).

    Ever seen a gander the male goose? 3 times as big as the girls and as aggressive as a pit bull. Before those chicken warehouses, farmers kept a few ganders around to fight off the foxes and raccoons at night. They did a good job too. They were widely used as watchmen.

    All hail male power.

    • Replies: @International Jew
    I'll meet your gander, and raise you a gorilla!
    https://goodmenproject.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/Gorillas2.jpg
  74. @Patrick Sullivan

    While the boys in my elementary school were encouraged to focus on their professional achievement and financial success, I was instructed to cross my legs, minimize my food intake, and coo at plastic babies with fluttering eyelids.
     
    Odd that her female elementary school teachers in 2003 insisted she conform to an imaginary stereotype of growing up female in 1940.

    Unless she grew up in some kind of Fundie cult, this is BS. I’m older than she is, and while I did have dolls (and loved them enough to curl up with all of them every night so no one would feel left out), I also rode bikes, climbed trees, roller skated, and played Hot Wheels with my brother.

    As for crossing my legs, most of us wore jeans, regardless of gender. Anyone who went to parochial school changed into jeans ASAP, and they don’t even let you cross your legs there: crossed at the ankles is the standard.

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    I always find it amusing how people "find out about their oppression"; I'm somewhat sympathetic because well, people are people and often silly. But still amusing.

    I had an ex-girlfriend who I dated when she was quite young and was doing all of the right things to become a doctor, which she really did have a passion for. We split up at some point, and around her early twenties, I found that she had abruptly dropped out of her major and went into education instead, while being pretty consumed by a desire to be married, have children, etc.

    Rather than consider that ambitions naturally change with age, she proceeded to go into a long spiel about how playing with Barbies ruined her and brainwashed her successfully.

    Those days I'd just consider it silly, and certainly on an individual level it is. But magnified so that personal obsessions become policy and its no longer as funny.

  75. Katherine J. Wu is a PhD student in microbiology and immunobiology at Harvard University…

    She must be trolling. She can’t be that stupid if she manages to be a PhD student in microbiology at Harvard.

    …and co-director emeritus of Science in the News, a graduate student organization that trains young scientists to communicate science to the general public.

    Hmm… maybe Harvard is not sending their best to work with the general public?

    She is also a 2018 AAAS mass media fellow at Smithsonian magazine.

    Ok, probably she’s just pretending to be stupid to get cushy job advantages.

    • Replies: @jb
    That was the part that most amazed me -- that Wu is actually a PhD student at Harvard! How is that even possible?!? How could a person that actually knows a little bit about biology miss the fact that the spotted hyena is actually an argument for biological determinism: i.e., female hyenas are dominant because that's hyena biology, while in humans the male is dominant because that is human biology?

    I am so sorry that Vox doesn't allow comments, because they would be very entertaining to read. Actually I notice that most sites that publish nonsense like this don't have comments. Somehow I don't think that is an accident...
  76. @International Jew
    This is insane. She latches on to one of the weirdest mammals on earth, and proposes it as a model for humans? Maybe her next article will be about female mantises, which kill their mates immediately after copulation.

    Don’t give her ideas.

  77. Anonymous[454] • Disclaimer says:

    It’s good that psychotic feminists hold up the hyena as their mascot. I predict this will catch on.

  78. @Patrick Sullivan

    While the boys in my elementary school were encouraged to focus on their professional achievement and financial success, I was instructed to cross my legs, minimize my food intake, and coo at plastic babies with fluttering eyelids.
     
    Odd that her female elementary school teachers in 2003 insisted she conform to an imaginary stereotype of growing up female in 1940.

    Yes, I came here to say essentially the same thing. Her online bio says she graduated from college in 2013. So she probably graduated from high school in 2009, which means she was in elementary school from 1997 – 2003.

    “Every cultural signal I encountered featured men at the top of the food chain, giving me the morning news…” Katie Couric anchored the Today show from 1991 – 2006.

    “… accepting Nobel Prizes.”
    Physics: Marie Curie 1903, Maria Mayer 1963.

    Chemistry: Marie Curie 1911, Irene Curie 1935, Dorothy Hodgkin 1964.

    Physiology or Medicine: too many to list; the award went to a woman in 1947, 1977, 1983, 1986, 1988, 1995, and six women during the 21st century.

    Literature: nine women before 1996, five since then.

    The Peace Prize: 10 women before 1998, six since then.

    • Replies: @dwb
    Precisely.

    When I read the comments about the world Wu claims to have grown up in, I looked to see her age.

    She was graduated from Stanford in 2014, so my guess is, born around 1992. I strongly suspect she grew up in a suburban California town - possibly in the SF Bay area or maybe San Gabriel or Monterey Park (Los Angeles).

    The very idea that she was told to cross her legs and play with dolls in 2002 is risible.

    Then I read her claim about "Amazons" and "Wonder Woman,' and it made sense. These are not real people, so her "memories" likely are equally phony.

    Wu has a twitter account, and on it there is a boast that her first article published in the Smithsonian magazine is a take-down of the inaccuracies in the latest "Jurassic Park" sequel.

    She must be a blast a parties. I bet she fits right in at Harvard.

    Her whole existence seems to be a real-life "Truman Show."
  79. @ChrisZ
    Hyenas are repulsive creatures, so Steve may be right that this is trolling with a VERY straight face.

    But the fantasy expressed in the first two paragraphs, about the writer’s upbringing under “the patriarchy (TM)” is all too typical of the genre. The woman is a graduate student, so likely under 30, with formative years in the late 1990s to early 2000s. In what parallel universe were those years a time of patriarchal conformity?

    To the contrary, an issue of that day was the incapacitation of boys through medications like Ritalin; the culture promoted “girl power” (spelled “grrrl,” in a very un-hyena-like growl); and IIRC this was the period that started seeing declines in male college enrollment.

    Yet to listen to the young women editorialists of today, they grew up in “The Handmaid’s Tale.” More so than an index of their self-delusion, it’s a sign of their vanity: a very traditional feminine trait, ironically.

    Maybe relevant: courses she took in Stanford University, from her linkedin (https://www.linkedin.com/in/katherine-wu-a63a4486):

    Arts Intensive: Fiction Writing (TA)
    Human Nutrition (TA)
    Introduction to Nutrition (TA)
    Sophomore College: The Stanford Safari (TA)
    Stanford SPLASH: Creative Writing (Instructor)
    Stanford SPLASH: Microbial Encounters in Daily Life (Instructor)
    Stanford SPLASH: Monsters Within: Parasitic Worms (Instructor)

  80. @Rosamond Vincy
    Unless she grew up in some kind of Fundie cult, this is BS. I'm older than she is, and while I did have dolls (and loved them enough to curl up with all of them every night so no one would feel left out), I also rode bikes, climbed trees, roller skated, and played Hot Wheels with my brother.

    As for crossing my legs, most of us wore jeans, regardless of gender. Anyone who went to parochial school changed into jeans ASAP, and they don't even let you cross your legs there: crossed at the ankles is the standard.

    I always find it amusing how people “find out about their oppression”; I’m somewhat sympathetic because well, people are people and often silly. But still amusing.

    I had an ex-girlfriend who I dated when she was quite young and was doing all of the right things to become a doctor, which she really did have a passion for. We split up at some point, and around her early twenties, I found that she had abruptly dropped out of her major and went into education instead, while being pretty consumed by a desire to be married, have children, etc.

    Rather than consider that ambitions naturally change with age, she proceeded to go into a long spiel about how playing with Barbies ruined her and brainwashed her successfully.

    Those days I’d just consider it silly, and certainly on an individual level it is. But magnified so that personal obsessions become policy and its no longer as funny.

    • Replies: @AnotherDad

    I found that she had abruptly dropped out of her major and went into education instead, while being pretty consumed by a desire to be married, have children, etc.
     
    The horror! The horror!

    She's gone down that degrading route of submission to "the patriarchy" and when she's an old women of say 65, is going to wake up some morning while visiting her grandchildren and have the terrifying realization that ... her life has had *meaning* and purpose and she's .... happy.
  81. “At least a third of all duck-sex is forced.”

    http://www.cracked.com/funny-2938-duck-rape/

    Well that study on the way ducks mate just blew up everything we thought we knew about sexual consent.

    We had it completely wrong.

  82. Abe says: • Website
    @ChrisZ
    Hyenas are repulsive creatures, so Steve may be right that this is trolling with a VERY straight face.

    But the fantasy expressed in the first two paragraphs, about the writer’s upbringing under “the patriarchy (TM)” is all too typical of the genre. The woman is a graduate student, so likely under 30, with formative years in the late 1990s to early 2000s. In what parallel universe were those years a time of patriarchal conformity?

    To the contrary, an issue of that day was the incapacitation of boys through medications like Ritalin; the culture promoted “girl power” (spelled “grrrl,” in a very un-hyena-like growl); and IIRC this was the period that started seeing declines in male college enrollment.

    Yet to listen to the young women editorialists of today, they grew up in “The Handmaid’s Tale.” More so than an index of their self-delusion, it’s a sign of their vanity: a very traditional feminine trait, ironically.

    The woman is a graduate student, so likely under 30, with formative years in the late 1990s to early 2000s. In what parallel universe were those years a time of patriarchal conformity?

    If I had more time I’d do a parody video of that Foreigner hit, as these peoples’ brains seem to be stuck in some perpetual timewarp- “It feels like it’s ‘49, it feels like it’s 1949!”

  83. @The preferred nomenclature is...
    She does know Wonder Woman is fiction, right?

    Now that I think about, she may not. Wow.

    She does know Wonder Woman is fiction, right?

    Now that I think about, she may not. Wow.

    Well, she does seem to think that the Amazons were real….

    Much like the Greek Amazons and Wonder Woman, hyenas are a lineage of queens that prove the human assumption that patriarchies are inevitable — or even natural — completely wrong.

    • Replies: @The preferred nomenclature is...
    Right-O. I guess it is safe to assume she believes these things to be real. Also, assuming she believes she has traveled to Wakanda (Sp? Too lazy to look it up, surprised my SpellCheck didn't recognize it).
  84. @DFH
    But humans aren't female spotted hyenas.............................................................

    But humans aren’t female spotted hyenas…………………………………………………….

    Exactly. This is appeal to biology … of a *different species*! The immediate thought in anyone’s head reading this should be, “oh interesting … but that’s not us”.

    That said, this is America, no one is stopping her from “doing the majority of the hunting” and certainly not “raise her cubs as single mother”.

    The harder part for women–and essentially the core feminist complaint–is the getting:

    Even the highest-ranking male in the group is subservient to the most junior female.

    i.e. that feminists while perfectly free to organize their own lives, don’t–yet–get to order men to serve them, to behave as women want.

    In a free society, men also have rights and get to chose. Which is why feminists hate men being free and are always on “the left” trying to use state power to make men behave–unnaturally–as feminists want.

    But Miss Wu may be in luck there as well. These days there seem to a fair number of men willing to be serfs and slaves for women. So if she has some interpersonal skills, maybe she can arrange that too. Whether such a she-man would actually, deeply make Miss Wu feel satisfied and haaapppy … I have my doubts.

    • Replies: @Stan d Mute

    feminists while perfectly free to organize their own lives, don’t–yet–get to order men to serve them, to behave as women want.
     
    And yet...

    As virtually every married woman (who has bothered to have babies and attempted to maintain her looks) knows, she can get a man to do nearly anything regardless of how humiliating it may be. Likewise a young fertile hottie seems to have no difficulty in getting men to do dangerous and stupid things.

    Is it time yet to abandon the manners we were taught as children? To publicly openly and loudly mock these bitter fat, homely, and barren shrews? Chase them back into their homes with their “special friends” to be miserable out of the public eye (and ear)? Pointing and laughing is a powerful tool..
  85. I found empowerment in an unexpected place: through the tale of the spotted hyena’s evolution — possibly one of the most inspirational examples of feminism in the natural world.

    Lo and behold the most inspirational example of feminism according to Miss Wu:

    If I were a feminist I would be offended.

    • Replies: @Rosie

    If I were a feminist I would be offended.
     
    It's not a flattering comparison at all.
  86. @Steve Sailer
    Was England conquered by Spain in 1588?

    Elizabeth, like all queens regnant, was a figurehead for the male power structure. A cursory study of queens regnant reveals they almost invariably rely more on their spouses and advisors than kings ever do.

    • Replies: @Rosie

    Elizabeth, like all queens regnant, was a figurehead for the male power structure. A cursory study of queens regnant reveals they almost invariably rely more on their spouses and advisors than kings ever do.
     
    Some might argue that the humility of deference to expertise is a strength and a virtue.
    , @YetAnotherAnon
    "Elizabeth, like all queens regnant, was a figurehead for the male power structure. "

    The 'male power structure' of her Court spent the first twenty years of her reign trying to get her to marry and produce an heir. Which she refused to do, never point-blank but with many evasions, obfuscations and diversions.

    She also had quite a few members of the male power structure beheaded, even former favourites like Essex. No figurehead she, Henry VIII's daughter. She chose her own advisers and chose well. Contrast with Mary Queen of Scots.

    Almost her dying words, to a courtier suggesting that "you must take to bed to content the people".

    "Little man, is must a word to use to princes?"

  87. @sabril
    It would actually be better for her hypothesis if there were hyena packs where male hyenas led. Because that would imply that sex roles are not determined by biology.

    Perhaps women cannot understand logic.

    • Replies: @Rosie

    Perhaps women cannot understand logic.
     
    Which is why we're the majority of law students, with nearly equal bar passage rates.
    , @L Woods
    Perhaps?
  88. Anonymous[679] • Disclaimer says:

    This rather reminds me of GK Chesterton’s quip along the lines of how men had been saying that their work is more important than women’s work for thousands of years—and feminists agree with men.

    Likewise, men have ruefully observing that women are like vicious, scavenging hyenas for thousands of years—and now feminists agree!

    • Replies: @Rosie

    Likewise, men have ruefully observing that women are like vicious, scavenging hyenas for thousands of years—and now feminists agree!
     
    Rosie's first law.
  89. @Peripatetic commenter
    Mammals: Generally XY/XX although some Muntjac species are Y/absent. (That is, males in one species have a diploid number of 7 chromosomes while females have a diploid number of 6 chromosomes.)

    Birds: Use a ZW system, where ZZ individuals are male and ZW are female.

    Reptiles and amphibs use both environmental sex determination as well as genetic sex determination (GSD) and some (at least one, Rana Rugosa) uses GSD with some pops using ZY and some pops using ZW.

    This paper gives lots more info:

    https://www.cell.com/current-biology/pdf/S0960-9822(06)01996-8.pdf

    Thank you.

  90. @Daniel Chieh
    I always find it amusing how people "find out about their oppression"; I'm somewhat sympathetic because well, people are people and often silly. But still amusing.

    I had an ex-girlfriend who I dated when she was quite young and was doing all of the right things to become a doctor, which she really did have a passion for. We split up at some point, and around her early twenties, I found that she had abruptly dropped out of her major and went into education instead, while being pretty consumed by a desire to be married, have children, etc.

    Rather than consider that ambitions naturally change with age, she proceeded to go into a long spiel about how playing with Barbies ruined her and brainwashed her successfully.

    Those days I'd just consider it silly, and certainly on an individual level it is. But magnified so that personal obsessions become policy and its no longer as funny.

    I found that she had abruptly dropped out of her major and went into education instead, while being pretty consumed by a desire to be married, have children, etc.

    The horror! The horror!

    She’s gone down that degrading route of submission to “the patriarchy” and when she’s an old women of say 65, is going to wake up some morning while visiting her grandchildren and have the terrifying realization that … her life has had *meaning* and purpose and she’s …. happy.

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    I hope she's happily married now.
  91. @peterike
    I wonder how Ms. Wu’s dating life is going?

    Well enough. She's not gorgeous by any means, but she's thin and in the upper half for Chinese girls looks (which are, generally, vastly over stated).

    More importantly, she is in the PhD program at Harvard, and is yet another Chinese woman turned into a flaming SJW. Peterike's Law in full effect.

    https://static.projects.iq.harvard.edu/files/styles/os_files_xxlarge/public/marchforscience/files/headshot.png

    What is Peterike’s Law? Is it how a lot of Asian women in America go full SJW? Having attended college in the USA, and having taught English to Asians at college in the USA, I have seen this trend of Asian females going full-throttle SJW in a couple years time after getting of the boat. Outside of racial reasons, it is probably the biggest reason I oppose their importation. The apply the same level of “grinding” to SJW themes as they do physics or biology.

  92. the boys in my elementary school were encouraged to focus on their professional achievement and financial success

    Elementary school? Professional achievement? Financial success?

    In my pre-adderall elementary school, kids were taught not to beat up or mock the SpEds, boys not to pull girls’ pony tails, and not to kick a fight opponent after you knocked his ass to the ground. But then we played “smear the queer” on the playground too..

    Things have changed.

    • Replies: @Rosamond Vincy
    Both males and females at my elementary school went around accusing each other of having cooties. I didn't even know what cooties were, and I suspect neither did many of my classmates. I had vague notions that it was something like personal radioactivity with a touch of B.O.
  93. I’m hoping that Katherine J. Wu is trolling Vox with what could be a parody, but …

    There is no parody on the left anymore–no room. The left is parody.

  94. @Peripatetic commenter

    Consider why sexual reproduction evolved: its basically a way to select for positive characteristics while ensuring a kind of genetic stability.
     
    This is not the dominant view, I believe.

    Rather, sexual reproduction reshuffles genetic combinations quite comprehensively and allows a population to keep ahead of parasites of all sorts while throwing up plenty of variation for selection to work from. Further, they allow useful new genes to spread throughout the population relatively more quickly.

    For example, see here:

    http://journals.plos.org/plosbiology/article?id=10.1371/journal.pbio.1001899

    One major role of sex is to bring together alleles carried by different individuals, revealing beneficial genetic variance that is otherwise hidden [2].

  95. @Peripatetic commenter

    Consider why sexual reproduction evolved: its basically a way to select for positive characteristics while ensuring a kind of genetic stability.
     
    This is not the dominant view, I believe.

    Rather, sexual reproduction reshuffles genetic combinations quite comprehensively and allows a population to keep ahead of parasites of all sorts while throwing up plenty of variation for selection to work from. Further, they allow useful new genes to spread throughout the population relatively more quickly.

    The genetic stability part came from a paper I read which found that, surprisingly, asexual microorganisms actually had a lot of variation – not necessarily good variation, just variation, since there was no selection for reproduction and any changes would be copied to the next generation. I believe they tested with irradiation and found that asexual species took the damage worse over generations than sexual ones.

  96. Since Ms Wu finds hyenas so inspiring…..

    The Hyena of the Gestapo

    Violette Morris (18 April 1893 – 26 April 1944) was a French athlete who won two gold and one silver medals at the Women’s World Games in 1921–1922. in 1936, she became a spy for Nazi Germany, which continued during World War II. She was killed in 1944 in a Resistance-led ambush as a traitor to France.

    Morris was a gifted athlete, becoming the first French woman to excel at shot put and discus, and playing on two separate women’s football teams. She played for Fémina Sports from 1917 until 1919, and for Olympique de Paris from 1920 to 1926. Both teams were based in Paris. She also played on the French women’s national team.[2][3]

    In addition to her football career, she was an active participant in many other sports. She was selected for the French national water polo team even though there was no women’s team at the time. She was an avid boxer, often fighting against, and defeating men.[4] She became French national champion in 1923. Among the other sports she participated in were road bicycle racing, motorcycle racing, car racing, airplane racing, horseback riding, tennis, archery, diving, swimming,[5] weightlifting, and Greco-Roman wrestling. Her most brilliant athletic years were considered to be from 1921 to 1924, when her slogan was “Ce qu’un homme fait, Violette peut le faire!” (English: Anything a man can do Violette can do!). In 1924 she participated at the 1924 Women’s Olympiad again taking the gold medal in discus and shot put. She later won the 1927 Bol d’Or 24 Hours car race at the wheel of a B.N.C..[6]

    Morris’s lifestyle was quite different from the traditional role of women during the 1920s. In addition to her wide-ranging athletic activities, Morris deviated from traditional behaviours of the time in several other ways. Among other things, she dressed in men’s attire, was a heavy smoker[2] and swore often.[1]

    She was refused license renewal by the Fédération française sportive féminine (FFSF – French Women’s Athletic Federation) amid complaints of her lifestyle and was therefore barred from participating in the 1928 Summer Olympics. The agency cited her lack of morals, in particular, Morris’ penchant for wearing men’s clothing.[7] Afterward, Morris decided to undergo an elective mastectomy, which she claimed was in order to fit into racing cars more easily. After 1928, Morris settled into owning a car parts store in Paris, and, along with her employees, building racing cars.

    At the end of December 1935, Morris was recruited by the Sicherheitsdienst (Security Service), a wing of the infamous SS of Nazi Germany. She was invited, with honor, to attend the 1936 Summer Olympics in Berlin at the personal behest of Adolf Hitler.[.........] [She benefited from the German occupation, often colluding with the local mob. She lived through the German occupation in a houseboat on the River Seine.

    One of her main responsibilities during the war was to foil the operation of the Special Operations Executive, a British-run organisation that helped the resistance. For these activities, Morris was sentenced to death in absentia and was killed along a country road by members of a French resistance group on 26 April 1944, at the age of 51, while out driving with friends who were also collaborators. Two other passengers were little children. They too were killed. Her body, riddled with bullets, was never claimed, and was buried in a communal grave.[2]

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Violette_Morris

    Talk about defying gender norms…..

    • Replies: @Stebbing Heuer
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hp40GyiE_Zg

    Note the uniform hanging on the coat rack.
  97. Ms Wu is a bit of an anomaly isn’t she? She’s not grotesquely fat nor Janet Reno homely. She’s not African or Jewish.

    So what personal failures is she hoping to blame on men? I’ve known even the most drop-dead gorgeous women to obsess over a single mole or freckle and seen them go batshit crazy over such things, so who knows? Maybe Haven Monahan dumped her for a Becky.

    Is it time yet to relitigate female suffrage? They seem to be suffraging overmuch and making our society and our posterity collapse in the process. Who could have ever guessed that fat, homely, neurotic, childless, and stupid women could cause harm when given absolute power?

    • Replies: @Rosie

    So what personal failures is she hoping to blame on men? I’ve known even the most drop-dead gorgeous women to obsess over a single mole or freckle and seen them go batshit crazy over such things, so who knows? Maybe Haven Monahan dumped her for a Becky.
     
    It's to be expected when you stop and think about it. There seems to be an assumption among many on the dissident Right that only ugly women resent being judged primarily on their appearance. This is a gross falsehood. Beautiful women who are also intelligent come to realize in time how dehumanizing it is, and not always when they are old.

    "Mirror, mirror on the wall..."
    , @Rosie

    Is it time yet to relitigate female suffrage?
     
    Why would we do that?

    Non-college educated White women: 63% for Trump
    College White women: 44% for Trump
    White women for Trump: 53%

    Hillary outspent Trump by almost double, and still couldn't get a majority of White women.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/09/us/politics/campaign-spending-donald-trump-hillary-clinton.html

    What else is there to say?
  98. @ThirdWorldSteveReader

    Therefore, hyenas necessarily need additional forms of selection, which probably helps account for the brutality of their behaviors.
     
    This makes sense. I found this article that states, among many interesting things (https://academic.oup.com/beheco/article/16/3/606/190314):

    Survivorship of cubs from birth through their first year was examined as a function of litter size, sex of cubs, and maternal rank. Overall, cub mortality was high (61%).
     

    Documented causes of mortality included intraclan infanticide, disease, orphaning, predation by lions, and a mechanism of filial infanticide that has not been previously described in this species: selective litter reduction by mothers via partial litter abandonment. No instances of facultative or obligate siblicide were detected.
     
    Also, this other article (http://science.sciencemag.org/content/252/5006/702)

    Neonates display elevated androgen levels, precocial motor development, and fully erupted front teeth. Litters are usually twins, and siblings fight violently at birth, apparently leading to the death of one sibling in same-sex litters, whereas in mixed-sex litters both siblings usually survive.
     
    A peaceful, empathetic, female-led existence indeed.

    It really does sound like they are as alien to us as lizards. Lionesses, in comparison, display even the maladaptive empathy that we can see as kindness – such as when they attempt to adopt young prey animals as replacement cubs.

    • Replies: @Rosie

    Lionesses, in comparison, display even the maladaptive empathy that we can see as kindness – such as when they attempt to adopt young prey animals as replacement cubs.
     
    I don't suppose nature has figured out a way to select for maternal instincts without the possibility of those instincts being misplaced from time to time.
    , @ThirdWorldSteveReader
    Now that you mention... indeed, we don't hear stories about interspecific adoptions involving hyena mothers.

    I found these people (https://hyena-project.com/2016/03/10/triplets-survive/) that say that hyenas sometimes adopt cubs from other hyenas, but presumably that's all. Their research also came with other interesting info:

    Spotted hyena males can be very persistent when they have a crush on a female. They may follow the female’s every movement: lie down a few meters away from her when she decides to rest, observe her when she changes her position or lifts her head, and get up and follow her when she walks away – in human society, such a behavior would be considered as stalking. In spotted hyenas, males use this rather exhausting strategy to foster and maintain a friendly relationship with the female – and more if they hit it off. Staying nearby a female also allows the male to displace rivals if they come too close to their loved one or to defend the female if she is being aggressively harassed by another male – harassment by males occurs regularly but is a far less successful strategy than a charming courtship.
     
    (https://hyena-project.com/2016/06/17/its-tough-to-be-a-male-in-love/)

    So much for the shy and submissive hyena males that became stuff of legends in the press.

    Our new study now demonstrates, for the first time in a group-living mammal, that stay-home (philopatric) males and dispersers are not inherently different and have similar reproductive success. Our study further shows that their choice to stay at home or leave home is the outcome of a process during which all males answer the same question: which group will provide me with the best fitness prospects? Whether a spotted hyena male stays at home or hits the road simply depends on whether his birth clan or another clan contains the highest number of young females when he wants to start breeding.
     

    The main advantage is provided by their mothers. In the matriarchal system of spotted hyenas, females can influence the competition among males. Mothers provide social support to their stay-home sons and ensure they acquire a high social rank among breeding males. This gives the mama’s boys privileged access to both food and females, allowing them to invest a lot of time consorting females. And this pays off. Genetic paternity analyses showed that stay-home males father their first cubs at a younger age than dispersers and father almost exclusively cubs with high-ranking females
     
    https://hyena-project.com/2016/03/19/mamas-boys-are-not-losers-in-spotted-hyenas/
    http://advances.sciencemag.org/content/2/3/e1501236

    Insert inner-city social dynamiccs joke here.
  99. @Patrick Sullivan

    While the boys in my elementary school were encouraged to focus on their professional achievement and financial success, I was instructed to cross my legs, minimize my food intake, and coo at plastic babies with fluttering eyelids.
     
    Odd that her female elementary school teachers in 2003 insisted she conform to an imaginary stereotype of growing up female in 1940.

    My son went to elementary school in this time period. He was not told to focus on “professional achievement and financial success” by his elementary school teachers. That is laughable. He was told to focus on his homework. Does anyone really imagine elementary school teachers telling 10 year old boys to think about making partner at Goldman Sachs?

  100. Ugliness is beauty. Lies are truth. Vox is journalism.

    I want off this ride.

  101. jb says:
    @ThirdWorldSteveReader

    Katherine J. Wu is a PhD student in microbiology and immunobiology at Harvard University...
     
    She must be trolling. She can't be that stupid if she manages to be a PhD student in microbiology at Harvard.

    ...and co-director emeritus of Science in the News, a graduate student organization that trains young scientists to communicate science to the general public.
     
    Hmm... maybe Harvard is not sending their best to work with the general public?

    She is also a 2018 AAAS mass media fellow at Smithsonian magazine.
     
    Ok, probably she's just pretending to be stupid to get cushy job advantages.

    That was the part that most amazed me — that Wu is actually a PhD student at Harvard! How is that even possible?!? How could a person that actually knows a little bit about biology miss the fact that the spotted hyena is actually an argument for biological determinism: i.e., female hyenas are dominant because that’s hyena biology, while in humans the male is dominant because that is human biology?

    I am so sorry that Vox doesn’t allow comments, because they would be very entertaining to read. Actually I notice that most sites that publish nonsense like this don’t have comments. Somehow I don’t think that is an accident…

    • Replies: @ThirdWorldSteveReader

    How could a person that actually knows a little bit about biology miss the fact that the spotted hyena is actually an argument for biological determinism
     
    It gets even weirder and stupider when you read the piece:

    And the pseudopenis itself? It’s a bit of a misnomer. It’s actually a clitoris, just a very big one.

    Which means female hyenas haven’t manipulated their way to the top by assuming the traits of another sex. Rather, they’re showcasing an exaggerated version of their most uniquely female anatomy.
     
    Clitoris and penis are homologous structures; that's not news to anyone who took biology classes. There's no misnomer, and this organ is not most uniquely female in any way. And the female hyenas did assume traits of the other sex - they have high testosterone levels, FFS!

    That's why I said: either she's trolling or she's lying. More likely the second, as she has clearly profited from having the Correct Views of 2018.
  102. @syonredux

    She does know Wonder Woman is fiction, right?

    Now that I think about, she may not. Wow.

     

    Well, she does seem to think that the Amazons were real....

    Much like the Greek Amazons and Wonder Woman, hyenas are a lineage of queens that prove the human assumption that patriarchies are inevitable — or even natural — completely wrong.
     

    Right-O. I guess it is safe to assume she believes these things to be real. Also, assuming she believes she has traveled to Wakanda (Sp? Too lazy to look it up, surprised my SpellCheck didn’t recognize it).

  103. I’m not even going to click that link. The woman sounds like a retard. And a boring retard to boot.

  104. @AnotherDad

    But humans aren’t female spotted hyenas…………………………………………………….
     
    Exactly. This is appeal to biology ... of a *different species*! The immediate thought in anyone's head reading this should be, "oh interesting … but that's not us".

    That said, this is America, no one is stopping her from "doing the majority of the hunting" and certainly not "raise her cubs as single mother".

    The harder part for women--and essentially the core feminist complaint--is the getting:

    Even the highest-ranking male in the group is subservient to the most junior female.

     

    i.e. that feminists while perfectly free to organize their own lives, don't--yet--get to order men to serve them, to behave as women want.

    In a free society, men also have rights and get to chose. Which is why feminists hate men being free and are always on "the left" trying to use state power to make men behave--unnaturally--as feminists want.

    But Miss Wu may be in luck there as well. These days there seem to a fair number of men willing to be serfs and slaves for women. So if she has some interpersonal skills, maybe she can arrange that too. Whether such a she-man would actually, deeply make Miss Wu feel satisfied and haaapppy … I have my doubts.

    feminists while perfectly free to organize their own lives, don’t–yet–get to order men to serve them, to behave as women want.

    And yet…

    As virtually every married woman (who has bothered to have babies and attempted to maintain her looks) knows, she can get a man to do nearly anything regardless of how humiliating it may be. Likewise a young fertile hottie seems to have no difficulty in getting men to do dangerous and stupid things.

    Is it time yet to abandon the manners we were taught as children? To publicly openly and loudly mock these bitter fat, homely, and barren shrews? Chase them back into their homes with their “special friends” to be miserable out of the public eye (and ear)? Pointing and laughing is a powerful tool..

  105. @Steve Sailer
    Was England conquered by Spain in 1588?

    I think the difference is not whether a society is led by a man or a woman but rather whether the society has a masculine culture or a feminine culture. Catherine the Great was ruler of Russia and was probably as hard headed as any male ruler of that times, which may have less to do with her gender and more to do with the culture of her times.

    Contrast that to today’s hyper feminine culture, dominated by women with liberal arts degrees. Wouldn’t that make society far weaker to deal with existential threats, like defense or mass migration? Merkel saw a million men marching at Berlin and flung open the borders. When thousands of women were sexually assaulted, her government tried to hide it up.

    One picture of a child migrant and all laws must be set aside, because Emotions.

    • Replies: @Rosie

    One picture of a child migrant and all laws must be set aside, because Emotions.
     
    How do we know the crybabies aren't just a vocal minority? 93% of voters i this town opposed welcoming refugees, which means that the women voters were at least 80% opposed. Of course, it was forced on them anyway.

    https://voiceofeurope.com/2018/03/small-irish-town-forced-to-take-115-third-world-refugees/
  106. @Anonymous Bosch
    About the author: "Katherine J. Wu is a PhD student in microbiology and immunobiology at Harvard University"

    First they came for humanities departments in state universities, but I did not speak out because I was an Ivory League biologist...

    Oh, they’re mucking up STEM now, just like they’ve done everything else. Pretty soon, you’ll have to hide your study results if they demonstrate something the Uni doesn’t like. Already happening in some places, to some extent, but it will become the norm.

  107. @the one they call Desanex
    Hyaena Hyaena

    In the hyaena (it’s species and genus)
    The bitch sports a counterfeit penis.
    It’s a pretty good joke
    To play on a bloke;
    That’s the reason they laugh like hyaenas.

    Coke – it’s the Real Thing.
    (Some vowels have been changed to protect the innocent.)

    • Replies: @the one they call Desanex
    Good one. It took me a few seconds to figure it out, so not “LOL”, but just as good.
  108. @YetAnotherAnon
    "Her lust for power, refusal to marry, and multiple lovers says high T."

    I think you're confusing her with Catherine The Great. QE1 had many 'lovers' aka admirers whose admiration was reciprocated - but AFAIK she wasn't called The Virgin Queen for nowt.

    I think having her mother AND stepmother executed by her father (and then being 'groomed' during puberty by her stepfather with her stepmother's seeming connivance) probably had something to do with a reluctance to marry. She told Leicester (one of her 'lovers') at the age of eight that she would never marry.

    I suspect you are right. She loved to flirt, and there may even have been some of what we now call “making out,” but she probably remained a Technical.

    Victoria, on the other hand, was quite passionately (in every sense of the word) in love with Albert, and like Bess, was a strong queen who both argued with and listened to her–male–councillors. Nor was she a feminist: she was disgusted by the “mad, wicked folly” of “Women’s Rights,” and her power was based on heredity, not gender.

  109. dwb says:
    @Gerald B
    Yes, I came here to say essentially the same thing. Her online bio says she graduated from college in 2013. So she probably graduated from high school in 2009, which means she was in elementary school from 1997 - 2003.

    "Every cultural signal I encountered featured men at the top of the food chain, giving me the morning news..." Katie Couric anchored the Today show from 1991 - 2006.

    "... accepting Nobel Prizes."
    Physics: Marie Curie 1903, Maria Mayer 1963.

    Chemistry: Marie Curie 1911, Irene Curie 1935, Dorothy Hodgkin 1964.

    Physiology or Medicine: too many to list; the award went to a woman in 1947, 1977, 1983, 1986, 1988, 1995, and six women during the 21st century.

    Literature: nine women before 1996, five since then.

    The Peace Prize: 10 women before 1998, six since then.

    Precisely.

    When I read the comments about the world Wu claims to have grown up in, I looked to see her age.

    She was graduated from Stanford in 2014, so my guess is, born around 1992. I strongly suspect she grew up in a suburban California town – possibly in the SF Bay area or maybe San Gabriel or Monterey Park (Los Angeles).

    The very idea that she was told to cross her legs and play with dolls in 2002 is risible.

    Then I read her claim about “Amazons” and “Wonder Woman,’ and it made sense. These are not real people, so her “memories” likely are equally phony.

    Wu has a twitter account, and on it there is a boast that her first article published in the Smithsonian magazine is a take-down of the inaccuracies in the latest “Jurassic Park” sequel.

    She must be a blast a parties. I bet she fits right in at Harvard.

    Her whole existence seems to be a real-life “Truman Show.”

  110. @Dr. Doom
    Like Wonder Woman comics that show women in revealing underwear getting restrained like John Willie's Perils of Gwendoline, and Xena, Warrior Princess implies lesbianism, the Hyena is the new biological proof of female dominance. The scavenger, the ravenous bully and of course the insane cackling and giggling. The Hyena proves that man hating lesbians will take any creature from nature that doesn't seem male dominated and take it to mean that the whole of nature is meaningless in the face of cherry picked data taken out of context.

    Katie Wu is the new face of biological feminist theory. The albino hyena of penis envy.

    OK, but who the hell would want to be a hyena?

    They’re figures of contempt in both Lion King and The Life of Pi. Maybe some fear, but mostly contempt.

    They’re also ugly as @#$&.

  111. @Daniel Chieh
    Bits and pieces. The evolution of sexual versus asexuality is something discussed - also how it occasionally reverts, such as in dandelions. Probably the ultimate version seems to be the ants, where the production of drones doesn't allow for much genetic divergence and all members are daughters of the queen. Sheer numbers probably helps with monoculture issues, though I recall that drones still need a "mating flight" so there's still a genetic spellcheck there(same for the queen).

    XY differentiation is taken from Smart and SeXXY ; something worth considering is that birds are the opposite, I believe, with XA females and XX males. Its female selection(males sing, dance, etc) but males are still often dominant in some species(very obvious with crows, with huge males).

    The evolution of sexual versus asexuality is something discussed – also how it occasionally reverts, such as in dandelions.

    Or Hillary.

  112. @Malcolm X-Lax
    I remember my college anthropology professor telling us that there had never been a matriarchal society in human history. Some feminists in class protested about "male domination" of the scholarship but he responded, quite sensibly, that if anyone could find a true example of one in any time or place, their career would be made. This was way back in the 80s. Has there been any news on this front or are feminists just playing games with definitions?

    No woman who remembers Jr. High wants a society dominated by females.

    • LOL: Malcolm X-Lax
    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    It would have really great curtains.
    , @Rosie

    No woman who remembers Jr. High wants a society dominated by females.
     
    Au contraire, I remember junior high very well. The relentless sexual harassment was so brutal that I went to a high school with no boys. That's part of the problem with telling boys they are better and smarter than girls. When the mush more complicated reality slaps them in the face, they lash out with a furious compulsion to humiliate and destroy any girl who stands out for her intelligence.
  113. @the one they call Desanex
    Hyaena Hyaena

    In the hyaena (it’s species and genus)
    The bitch sports a counterfeit penis.
    It’s a pretty good joke
    To play on a bloke;
    That’s the reason they laugh like hyaenas.

    Oops! I got the striped hyaena (Hyaena hyaena) mixed up with the spotted hyaena (Crocuta crocuta). That trashes my title and first line.

  114. @TomSchmidt
    She will need inspirational tales of feminism in the animal world after reading this classic Onion article:

    https://www.theonion.com/study-finds-sexism-rampant-in-nature-1819566369

    That's one of the top five funniest ever on that site.

    There was one about a bunch of feminists simultaneously ovulating at a Sarah Mclachlan concert that’s an all-time classic.

  115. @Rosamond Vincy
    No woman who remembers Jr. High wants a society dominated by females.

    It would have really great curtains.

    • Replies: @Rosamond Vincy
    No it wouldn't. They don't learn sewing anymore.
  116. “(seriously, screenwriters do a lot of research and they often pack a lot of weird details like that into shows).”

    Points of illumination can be stitched into the script; but the process that produces a film often grinds to dust the good stuff that came about during conception. It all depends upon the relationships between the writer, director, and producer.

  117. @Anon
    I noticed that too.

    You mentioned 1940. In 1940 the average woman high school graduate was better equipped to out into the world and earn a decent living than the average woman college graduate today.

    In 1940 there was something called the Girls Commercial Course. They learned high speed typing, shorthand, book keeping, filing , office management, using and repairing office machines and business manners and deportment.

    They could find a good job right after graduation. Now young women waste
    4 years and $100,000 and end up doing the same job their great grandmothers did without the waste of time and money.

    Only difference is the job title, from secretary to assistant.

    The also had Home Ec classes where they learned how to cook, clean, sew, and care for children.

  118. @Daniel Chieh
    It would have really great curtains.

    No it wouldn’t. They don’t learn sewing anymore.

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    Long story, but I was once in a project which was aimed at women and essentially in an organization that was 90% women, and most of them between 17-30. It was entertaining in some ways,but mostly in how dysfunctional it was. The most memorable parts were:

    1) The "queen bee" justifying how hurting people was very logical, because by doing things against rules, was 'implicit consent." While all in all I agreed with her given the context, it was hilarious because it was exactly the rape justification in different words("Well, you were asking for it.")

    2) The cliques. Oh God, the cliques. Everything was about flattering the appearance of the head clique and its membership. Entry was very competitive, and popularity meant hilarious conformity. If one boy was "supposed" to be handsome, everyone implicitly agreed and would treat him as such. Quite weird. Pretty funny. All sorts of accidental conformity overruns.

    3) Catfights. The endless catfights of gossip and rumors and sneakiness. Everyone had a "gentle nature" or so she would claim - this was before Tough Girls Are Cool was as much of a thing. And everyone was such a bitch at heart.

    God, it was such a beautiful bit of dysfunction.

    On the upside, I was taught the difference between crimson and scarlet and learned how to make perfume from flower petals and essential oils(sadly useless in my life!). Now if we update this for the modern day, I'd probably just learn all about fat acceptance and #MeToo.

  119. @JMcG
    In the same way the gun grabbers have dropped the facade and started openly calling for repeal of the second amendment and gun confiscation, even more mainstream feminists are now calling for female domination rather than equality.
    Imagine being governed by your friendly local HR department.

    “In the US laws now destroy law and the liberty that once was protected by law.”

    “Where is our protection when the law is cut down?”

    - Paul C. Roberts

    In order to preserve our liberties, each of us must become an advocate of them, and by that each of us potential Jury Members must insist on the exercise of our right to practice Judicial Nullification.

    Yes, the government can pass their anti-gun “laws,” have their MSM support said “laws,” have their Judiciary uphold such “laws” in their Courts, but the citizen in the Jury box still retains their right to provide the final bulwark to such illegality.

    • Replies: @JMcG
    I couldn’t agree more. I’ve actually done it.
  120. OT, but not: Among the Kazakh people, young men and women enjoy the Kyz kuu game, which is played on horseback. The girl is given a substantial lead, and then they race to the finish line.

    If the young man catches her, he gets to give her a kiss. If she gets to the finish line first, she gets to beat him with a whip.

    I’m pretty sure this game is played here, as well. We call it Affirmative Action or feminism.

  121. @Stan d Mute

    the boys in my elementary school were encouraged to focus on their professional achievement and financial success
     
    Elementary school? Professional achievement? Financial success?

    In my pre-adderall elementary school, kids were taught not to beat up or mock the SpEds, boys not to pull girls’ pony tails, and not to kick a fight opponent after you knocked his ass to the ground. But then we played “smear the queer” on the playground too..

    Things have changed.

    Both males and females at my elementary school went around accusing each other of having cooties. I didn’t even know what cooties were, and I suspect neither did many of my classmates. I had vague notions that it was something like personal radioactivity with a touch of B.O.

    • Replies: @Stan d Mute
    All I know, and every boy in elementary school with me also knew, is that girls definitely had cooties.

    Thankfully, by junior high, that affliction seems to have cleared up..
  122. Wu is either trolling or a moron.

    She writes that “hyenas are a lineage of queens that prove the human assumption that patriarchies are inevitable — or even natural — completely wrong,” because (I summarize) female hyenas have evolved into pseudo-males complete with large pseudo-penises.

    In other words, patriarchies are unnatural because they’re so natural that the only way to have a true matriarchy* is for the matriarchs to imitate patriarchs right down to their private parts.

    Maybe Wu is a moron, since she also writes “Fifty-five years after the passage of the Equal Pay Act, women still make only 80 cents for every dollar earned by men — a gap that widens into a chasm for women of color.” That is bogus: black women take home 92.8% of black male pay, much more than (…a much smaller gap than…) white women who take home only 81.2% as much as white males (source Q1 2018 data, US Bureau of Labor Statistics)(link). It seems likely Wu simply multiplied racist and sexist assumptions in her mind while fabricating a pseudo-statistic to give her writing a more patriarchal tone.

    *Matriarchy among more or less social mammals, not black-widow spiders or eusocial insects or sponges or whatever.

    • Replies: @dwb
    To be fair, Wu is a PhD candidate in biology, not math. Or logic for that matter.
  123. @peterike
    I wonder how Ms. Wu’s dating life is going?

    Well enough. She's not gorgeous by any means, but she's thin and in the upper half for Chinese girls looks (which are, generally, vastly over stated).

    More importantly, she is in the PhD program at Harvard, and is yet another Chinese woman turned into a flaming SJW. Peterike's Law in full effect.

    https://static.projects.iq.harvard.edu/files/styles/os_files_xxlarge/public/marchforscience/files/headshot.png

    So, young, pleasant-looking-but-no-looker Chinese woman studying at an Ivy League university draws attention to herself by writing an article with no point but to demonstrate how on-side she is with the zeitgeist?

    Quelle fracking surprise.

    If I had a dollar for every time …

  124. @Alfa158
    He also assasinated her successor in a manner supposedly uncharacteristic of cats. She spotted him coming for her and took off running. Cats are anaerobic and aren’t supposed to be able to run long distances while dog related animals can. Yet that lion hung in on an extended chase, slowly closed on her until he could reach out a paw to trip her, then break her back as well. The naturalists had no idea lions would run distances like that, but it showed his determination to make sure his harem remained undisturbed. He then went back to enjoying his keeping it real life of kicking back, having females hunt and give him first dibs on the food, fathering many cubs, and fighting other males.

    Hyenas sure do look like dogs/wolves/bears but they actually aren’t related. Canines and felines are closer to each other than either is to hyenas. Whole different lineage. Which makes sense, given their bizarre reproductive deal.

  125. @the one they call Desanex
    Hyaena Hyaena

    In the hyaena (it’s species and genus)
    The bitch sports a counterfeit penis.
    It’s a pretty good joke
    To play on a bloke;
    That’s the reason they laugh like hyaenas.

    Let’s lose the title and make the first line “In the Crocuta (it’s species and genus)”.

  126. @Rosamond Vincy
    No it wouldn't. They don't learn sewing anymore.

    Long story, but I was once in a project which was aimed at women and essentially in an organization that was 90% women, and most of them between 17-30. It was entertaining in some ways,but mostly in how dysfunctional it was. The most memorable parts were:

    1) The “queen bee” justifying how hurting people was very logical, because by doing things against rules, was ‘implicit consent.” While all in all I agreed with her given the context, it was hilarious because it was exactly the rape justification in different words(“Well, you were asking for it.”)

    2) The cliques. Oh God, the cliques. Everything was about flattering the appearance of the head clique and its membership. Entry was very competitive, and popularity meant hilarious conformity. If one boy was “supposed” to be handsome, everyone implicitly agreed and would treat him as such. Quite weird. Pretty funny. All sorts of accidental conformity overruns.

    3) Catfights. The endless catfights of gossip and rumors and sneakiness. Everyone had a “gentle nature” or so she would claim – this was before Tough Girls Are Cool was as much of a thing. And everyone was such a bitch at heart.

    God, it was such a beautiful bit of dysfunction.

    On the upside, I was taught the difference between crimson and scarlet and learned how to make perfume from flower petals and essential oils(sadly useless in my life!). Now if we update this for the modern day, I’d probably just learn all about fat acceptance and #MeToo.

    • Replies: @Rosamond Vincy
    Crimson has more of a blue undertone, and scarlet is more orange, right?
    , @Rosie

    3) Catfights. The endless catfights of gossip and rumors and sneakiness. Everyone had a “gentle nature” or so she would claim – this was before Tough Girls Are Cool was as much of a thing. And everyone was such a bitch at heart.
     
    I'll just keep posting this until further notice.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5458635/Men-gossip-women-likely-threaten-rivals.html

    Men and women's both gossip, but for different reasons. Women gossip to blow off steam without causing a conspicuous confrontation or hurt feelings. Sometimes it backfires and our confidant turns out to be less trustworthy than we imagined. This becomes less and less frequent as we get older and wiser.

    Men gossip to take down their rivals. If there is any doubt as to this, just follow alt-Right politics for a spell.
  127. @Malcolm X-Lax
    I remember my college anthropology professor telling us that there had never been a matriarchal society in human history. Some feminists in class protested about "male domination" of the scholarship but he responded, quite sensibly, that if anyone could find a true example of one in any time or place, their career would be made. This was way back in the 80s. Has there been any news on this front or are feminists just playing games with definitions?

    Like the man said -
    Matrilineality is a word describing a social system in which descent is traced through the female line and is found in a number of societies around the world.
    Matrilocality is a word describing a social system in which a married couple resides with or near the wife’s parents and is found in a number of societies around the world.
    Matriarchy is a word describing a social system in which females hold the primary power positions and is found in a dictionary.

  128. @Anon
    Was Cecil a tranny?

    Who knows, but a more interesting question remains: how did William Cecil’s daughter Anne get pregnant in 1575 when her husband, Edward de Vere, was abroad in Europe? De Vere believed that he was not the biological father of Elizabeth Vere, and he was almost certainly right.

    So who?

    A certain scene from a famous 1974 movie comes to mind . . .

  129. @syonredux
    Since Ms Wu finds hyenas so inspiring.....


    The Hyena of the Gestapo

    Violette Morris (18 April 1893 – 26 April 1944) was a French athlete who won two gold and one silver medals at the Women's World Games in 1921–1922. in 1936, she became a spy for Nazi Germany, which continued during World War II. She was killed in 1944 in a Resistance-led ambush as a traitor to France.
     

    Morris was a gifted athlete, becoming the first French woman to excel at shot put and discus, and playing on two separate women's football teams. She played for Fémina Sports from 1917 until 1919, and for Olympique de Paris from 1920 to 1926. Both teams were based in Paris. She also played on the French women's national team.[2][3]

    In addition to her football career, she was an active participant in many other sports. She was selected for the French national water polo team even though there was no women's team at the time. She was an avid boxer, often fighting against, and defeating men.[4] She became French national champion in 1923. Among the other sports she participated in were road bicycle racing, motorcycle racing, car racing, airplane racing, horseback riding, tennis, archery, diving, swimming,[5] weightlifting, and Greco-Roman wrestling. Her most brilliant athletic years were considered to be from 1921 to 1924, when her slogan was "Ce qu'un homme fait, Violette peut le faire!" (English: Anything a man can do Violette can do!). In 1924 she participated at the 1924 Women's Olympiad again taking the gold medal in discus and shot put. She later won the 1927 Bol d'Or 24 Hours car race at the wheel of a B.N.C..[6]
     

    Morris's lifestyle was quite different from the traditional role of women during the 1920s. In addition to her wide-ranging athletic activities, Morris deviated from traditional behaviours of the time in several other ways. Among other things, she dressed in men's attire, was a heavy smoker[2] and swore often.[1]
     

    She was refused license renewal by the Fédération française sportive féminine (FFSF – French Women's Athletic Federation) amid complaints of her lifestyle and was therefore barred from participating in the 1928 Summer Olympics. The agency cited her lack of morals, in particular, Morris' penchant for wearing men's clothing.[7] Afterward, Morris decided to undergo an elective mastectomy, which she claimed was in order to fit into racing cars more easily. After 1928, Morris settled into owning a car parts store in Paris, and, along with her employees, building racing cars.
     

    At the end of December 1935, Morris was recruited by the Sicherheitsdienst (Security Service), a wing of the infamous SS of Nazi Germany. She was invited, with honor, to attend the 1936 Summer Olympics in Berlin at the personal behest of Adolf Hitler.[.........] [She benefited from the German occupation, often colluding with the local mob. She lived through the German occupation in a houseboat on the River Seine.
     

    One of her main responsibilities during the war was to foil the operation of the Special Operations Executive, a British-run organisation that helped the resistance. For these activities, Morris was sentenced to death in absentia and was killed along a country road by members of a French resistance group on 26 April 1944, at the age of 51, while out driving with friends who were also collaborators. Two other passengers were little children. They too were killed. Her body, riddled with bullets, was never claimed, and was buried in a communal grave.[2]
     
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Violette_Morris


    Talk about defying gender norms.....

    Note the uniform hanging on the coat rack.

  130. CCZ says:

    Have feminists really thought through the consequences of portraying themselves as a pack of hyenas?

    “Hyenas feature prominently in the folklore and mythology of human cultures with which they are sympatric. Hyenas are commonly viewed as frightening and worthy of contempt. In some cultures, hyenas are thought to influence people’s spirits, rob graves, and steal livestock and children. Other cultures associate them with witchcraft, using their body parts in traditional African medicine.” [Wiki]

  131. @YetAnotherAnon
    "Her lust for power, refusal to marry, and multiple lovers says high T."

    I think you're confusing her with Catherine The Great. QE1 had many 'lovers' aka admirers whose admiration was reciprocated - but AFAIK she wasn't called The Virgin Queen for nowt.

    I think having her mother AND stepmother executed by her father (and then being 'groomed' during puberty by her stepfather with her stepmother's seeming connivance) probably had something to do with a reluctance to marry. She told Leicester (one of her 'lovers') at the age of eight that she would never marry.

    She was called “the Virgin Queen” because insinuating that the Queen was not protecting her womanly virtue was a good way to be simultaneously castrated and disemboweled with rusty hooks after several dates with the rack.

  132. @Anon
    Ever seen a gander the male goose? 3 times as big as the girls and as aggressive as a pit bull. Before those chicken warehouses, farmers kept a few ganders around to fight off the foxes and raccoons at night. They did a good job too. They were widely used as watchmen.

    All hail male power.

    I’ll meet your gander, and raise you a gorilla!

  133. @AnotherDad

    I found that she had abruptly dropped out of her major and went into education instead, while being pretty consumed by a desire to be married, have children, etc.
     
    The horror! The horror!

    She's gone down that degrading route of submission to "the patriarchy" and when she's an old women of say 65, is going to wake up some morning while visiting her grandchildren and have the terrifying realization that ... her life has had *meaning* and purpose and she's .... happy.

    I hope she’s happily married now.

  134. @Daniel Chieh
    Long story, but I was once in a project which was aimed at women and essentially in an organization that was 90% women, and most of them between 17-30. It was entertaining in some ways,but mostly in how dysfunctional it was. The most memorable parts were:

    1) The "queen bee" justifying how hurting people was very logical, because by doing things against rules, was 'implicit consent." While all in all I agreed with her given the context, it was hilarious because it was exactly the rape justification in different words("Well, you were asking for it.")

    2) The cliques. Oh God, the cliques. Everything was about flattering the appearance of the head clique and its membership. Entry was very competitive, and popularity meant hilarious conformity. If one boy was "supposed" to be handsome, everyone implicitly agreed and would treat him as such. Quite weird. Pretty funny. All sorts of accidental conformity overruns.

    3) Catfights. The endless catfights of gossip and rumors and sneakiness. Everyone had a "gentle nature" or so she would claim - this was before Tough Girls Are Cool was as much of a thing. And everyone was such a bitch at heart.

    God, it was such a beautiful bit of dysfunction.

    On the upside, I was taught the difference between crimson and scarlet and learned how to make perfume from flower petals and essential oils(sadly useless in my life!). Now if we update this for the modern day, I'd probably just learn all about fat acceptance and #MeToo.

    Crimson has more of a blue undertone, and scarlet is more orange, right?

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    Correct. I mostly remember scarlet being considered the most red of reds.

    Ah, now you made me recall some of the exotic fabrics I learned about. Bombazine!

  135. @Gunnar von Cowtown
    Jezebel did this bit better three years ago.
    https://jezebel.com/introducing-the-pseudopenis-or-why-female-hyenas-are-f-1714981846

    Introducing the Pseudopenis, or Why Female Hyenas Are Feminist as Fuck

    Penis means power. The dominance of dicks and those who have them isn’t a coincidence, or the unavoidable consequence of Big Patriarchy keeping women down—rather, it’s a case of simple biology. In most mammalian embryos, the genital tubercle forms very early, later developing into either a penis or a clitoris, subject to a complex cocktail of influential hormones. Androgens like testosterone stimulate penile growth and are also associated with aggression, so the relationship between actual dicks (penises) and figurative dicks (aggressive jerks) is axiomatic. But amazingly, in the case of female-dominant spotted hyena societies, those boss bitches have actually evolved a sort of penis of their own.

    It’s technically called a “pseudopenis,” and it’s an extreme example of clitoromegaly—essentially a very enlarged clitoris.
     

    So, for those of you keeping score at home;
    -Penis envy (Hat tip: Daniel H)
    -Penis larping
    -Heartiste's "clitdicks" trope vindicated
    -Hyena females have very high testosterone levels

    Wikipedia has more info for anyone wary of clicking that Jezebel link.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spotted_hyena#Female_genitalia

    Carlos Slim's blog had a great article on this 26 years ago.
    https://www.nytimes.com/1992/09/01/science/hyenas-hormone-flow-puts-females-in-charge.html


    While in the womb, male and female fetuses alike are exposed to extraordinarily high levels of male hormones, particularly testosterone. The hormones originate in the mother's ovaries and pass through the placenta, and they have a dramatic effect on the developing cubs. As a result of the androgen bath, both sexes end up with masculine-looking genitals, the male bearing the standard equipment, the female having an extremely enlarged clitoris that resembles a penis and fused, protuberant vaginal labia that look like a plump pair of testicles. Both sexes can and do get erections at the slightest provocation -- when sizing up a stranger, when greeting a friend. But though the two sexes look equal, they are not: the female is in charge......

    The work may also lead to a more sophisticated understanding of the link between hormones and aggression. Hyena cubs, when they emerge from their testosterone-laced uterus, are the most belligerent newborns among mammals, so wired for a fight that they immediately begin attacking one another, often to the death of one.
     

    Unpleasant, violent, entitled, high-T women, soyboys and mass androgyny. So, yeah, basically feminist utopia.

    It is better to live one day as a lion than 100 years as a hyena.

    Unpleasant, violent, entitled, high-T women, soyboys and mass androgyny. So, yeah, basically feminist utopia.

    It seems that you think masculinity is some sort of zero sum game? I don’t know about hyenas, but that’s definitely doesn’t seem to be the case among humans. White men think Latinas and Asian women are more feminine than White women, and I suppose there’s some truth to that, but if you marry one, she will pass on her femininity to your sons as well as your daughters.

    • Replies: @Gunnar von Cowtown

    It seems that you think masculinity is some sort of zero sum game?
     
    Naw, I was merely summarizing hyenas through the lens of click-bait feminists. Personally, I'm a big fan of sexual dimorphism.
  136. @Daniel Chieh
    Long story, but I was once in a project which was aimed at women and essentially in an organization that was 90% women, and most of them between 17-30. It was entertaining in some ways,but mostly in how dysfunctional it was. The most memorable parts were:

    1) The "queen bee" justifying how hurting people was very logical, because by doing things against rules, was 'implicit consent." While all in all I agreed with her given the context, it was hilarious because it was exactly the rape justification in different words("Well, you were asking for it.")

    2) The cliques. Oh God, the cliques. Everything was about flattering the appearance of the head clique and its membership. Entry was very competitive, and popularity meant hilarious conformity. If one boy was "supposed" to be handsome, everyone implicitly agreed and would treat him as such. Quite weird. Pretty funny. All sorts of accidental conformity overruns.

    3) Catfights. The endless catfights of gossip and rumors and sneakiness. Everyone had a "gentle nature" or so she would claim - this was before Tough Girls Are Cool was as much of a thing. And everyone was such a bitch at heart.

    God, it was such a beautiful bit of dysfunction.

    On the upside, I was taught the difference between crimson and scarlet and learned how to make perfume from flower petals and essential oils(sadly useless in my life!). Now if we update this for the modern day, I'd probably just learn all about fat acceptance and #MeToo.

    3) Catfights. The endless catfights of gossip and rumors and sneakiness. Everyone had a “gentle nature” or so she would claim – this was before Tough Girls Are Cool was as much of a thing. And everyone was such a bitch at heart.

    I’ll just keep posting this until further notice.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5458635/Men-gossip-women-likely-threaten-rivals.html

    Men and women’s both gossip, but for different reasons. Women gossip to blow off steam without causing a conspicuous confrontation or hurt feelings. Sometimes it backfires and our confidant turns out to be less trustworthy than we imagined. This becomes less and less frequent as we get older and wiser.

    Men gossip to take down their rivals. If there is any doubt as to this, just follow alt-Right politics for a spell.

    • Replies: @Brutusale
    Women talking to other women about other women is gossip.

    Men talking to other men about sports is not gossip.

    A 35-year career of having to make small talk with both men and women in professional situations has given me a pretty good idea about what they want to talk about.

    That it was a self-survey done by emasculated Brits who've coughed up the Sceptered Isle to the barbarian hasn't sunk in yet, huh? If we were a nation with a long history of Page Three Girls and the lurid popular press, we too might be nattering chicks like the guys in Britain.
  137. @Rosamond Vincy
    Coke - it's the Real Thing.
    (Some vowels have been changed to protect the innocent.)

    Good one. It took me a few seconds to figure it out, so not “LOL”, but just as good.

    • Replies: @Rosamond Vincy
    I thought of using letes, but decided to go slightly more subtle.
  138. “While the boys in my elementary school were encouraged to focus on their professional achievement and financial success, I was instructed to cross my legs, minimize my food intake, and coo at plastic babies with fluttering eyelids.”

    Spectacular projection if true. However, I imagine Ms. Wu is a bit like a math Olympiad columnist; ie. she learned how to write the perfect leftist essay by rote, until any topic could be put in the formula and would always produce the correct answer.

    As I foretold, this is tiger daughter sjwism. Ms. Wu is an awkward pioneer, but I fully expect Wus, Changs, and Lis to replace the Weissmans, Cohens etc. currently dominating the sphere.

  139. @Rosamond Vincy
    No woman who remembers Jr. High wants a society dominated by females.

    No woman who remembers Jr. High wants a society dominated by females.

    Au contraire, I remember junior high very well. The relentless sexual harassment was so brutal that I went to a high school with no boys. That’s part of the problem with telling boys they are better and smarter than girls. When the mush more complicated reality slaps them in the face, they lash out with a furious compulsion to humiliate and destroy any girl who stands out for her intelligence.

    • Replies: @MBlanc46
    I’m sure the boys that you didn’t go to jr high with are deeply grateful. Would you consider going to a blog with no boys?
    , @Rosamond Vincy
    Not at my Jr. High. The most evil people were girls who would be B-list anywhere else. They weren't athletic enough to be cheerleaders, let alone to do a competitive sport, so they joined the Pep Club and went around telling everybody else they should show more School Spirit. They were the first ones to rat out the smokers to the administration. They were natural Hall Monitors, and teachers and Scout Leaders praised them for how "mature" and "responsible" they were. They weren't pretty enough to be on Prom Court, so they got on Prom Committee so they could bully everyone who showed up. If you didn't show up because you were outside with the other stoners in the cul-de-sac, hoping your parents wouldn't notice your red eyes or the ash burns on your gown when they came to pick you up, they pounced on you the next school day, doing their own rendition of "Popular" from Wicked.

    By High School, they had lost all power. They took over yearbook and the school paper in an effort to control our reputations in perpetuity, but only because nobody else cared enough to do it. They weren't ugly enough to be teased and become rebels like Janis Joplin, so they suckered Beta males (who couldn't get anyone better but didn't want to be mistaken for gay and beaten up) into taking them to all school functions, and if the Beta was lucky, he escaped to college and didn't have to marry the Hall Monitor.

    I googled one to see what had become of her, and she's an elementary school teacher. One of her students commented, on a posted math assignment, that he was a little confused Ms. So-and-So was so insistent about their using a particular procedure rather than working the problem the most efficient way, but he wisely stated that she was trying to teach them "how to think." The tradition continues: no Gausses in her class!

  140. @Anonymous
    This rather reminds me of GK Chesterton's quip along the lines of how men had been saying that their work is more important than women's work for thousands of years---and feminists agree with men.

    Likewise, men have ruefully observing that women are like vicious, scavenging hyenas for thousands of years---and now feminists agree!

    Likewise, men have ruefully observing that women are like vicious, scavenging hyenas for thousands of years—and now feminists agree!

    Rosie’s first law.

  141. @Peripatetic commenter
    Perhaps women cannot understand logic.

    Perhaps women cannot understand logic.

    Which is why we’re the majority of law students, with nearly equal bar passage rates.

    • Replies: @Scott66
    Actually your examples undermines your position. Law is man made. It is almost exclusively about memorization and language skills. There is no logic in the 20,000 pages of EU regulations on cabbage production and transportation.

    Math is logic. One way to view it is that it is the study of the foundations of the universe. There is nothing man made about it. Men dominate in the math field despite all the privileges women get.
    , @JerseyJeffersonian
    The majority of law school students, and possibly soon, in the not too distant future, the majority of lawyers, eh?

    So, maybe women are modeling themselves on hyenas after all...
    , @Peripatetic commenter
    You mean like Hillary Clinton or Michelle Obama?
  142. @AndrewR
    Elizabeth, like all queens regnant, was a figurehead for the male power structure. A cursory study of queens regnant reveals they almost invariably rely more on their spouses and advisors than kings ever do.

    Elizabeth, like all queens regnant, was a figurehead for the male power structure. A cursory study of queens regnant reveals they almost invariably rely more on their spouses and advisors than kings ever do.

    Some might argue that the humility of deference to expertise is a strength and a virtue.

  143. @Stan d Mute
    Ms Wu is a bit of an anomaly isn’t she? She’s not grotesquely fat nor Janet Reno homely. She’s not African or Jewish.

    So what personal failures is she hoping to blame on men? I’ve known even the most drop-dead gorgeous women to obsess over a single mole or freckle and seen them go batshit crazy over such things, so who knows? Maybe Haven Monahan dumped her for a Becky.

    Is it time yet to relitigate female suffrage? They seem to be suffraging overmuch and making our society and our posterity collapse in the process. Who could have ever guessed that fat, homely, neurotic, childless, and stupid women could cause harm when given absolute power?

    So what personal failures is she hoping to blame on men? I’ve known even the most drop-dead gorgeous women to obsess over a single mole or freckle and seen them go batshit crazy over such things, so who knows? Maybe Haven Monahan dumped her for a Becky.

    It’s to be expected when you stop and think about it. There seems to be an assumption among many on the dissident Right that only ugly women resent being judged primarily on their appearance. This is a gross falsehood. Beautiful women who are also intelligent come to realize in time how dehumanizing it is, and not always when they are old.

    “Mirror, mirror on the wall…”

    • Replies: @ThirdWorldSteveReader

    Beautiful women who are also intelligent come to realize in time how dehumanizing it is, and not always when they are old.
     
    I don't doubt it, but I want to comment that the dehumanization is more on the eyes of the beholder than on the standard applied.

    I think the woman who resents being judged primarily by appearance would also resent being judged primarily by her intelligence, or by her character, or by her good-will, or by her productivity - even if they state otherwise. Being judged by any standard can feel dehumanizing, and there is really no good solution for people too sensitive to it.
    , @Stan d Mute
    Everyone is judged on their appearance. Thus we have the expression, “appearances matter.”

    Everyone is judged on everything.

    If you never want to be judged, stay home with your “special friend” and pretend you’re both the prettiest princesses on Lezbo Island. (You and you’re used editorially)

    Public mockery is an immensely powerful tool. The leftists use it to great effect. It’s long past time we return the favor. Just point and laugh.
  144. In these clans throughout sub-Saharan Africa, females do the majority of the hunting, dictate the social structure, and raise cubs as single mothers.

    Is she talking about the hyenas or the humans?

  145. @Veracitor
    Wu is either trolling or a moron.

    She writes that "hyenas are a lineage of queens that prove the human assumption that patriarchies are inevitable — or even natural — completely wrong," because (I summarize) female hyenas have evolved into pseudo-males complete with large pseudo-penises.

    In other words, patriarchies are unnatural because they're so natural that the only way to have a true matriarchy* is for the matriarchs to imitate patriarchs right down to their private parts.

    Maybe Wu is a moron, since she also writes "Fifty-five years after the passage of the Equal Pay Act, women still make only 80 cents for every dollar earned by men — a gap that widens into a chasm for women of color." That is bogus: black women take home 92.8% of black male pay, much more than (...a much smaller gap than...) white women who take home only 81.2% as much as white males (source Q1 2018 data, US Bureau of Labor Statistics)(link). It seems likely Wu simply multiplied racist and sexist assumptions in her mind while fabricating a pseudo-statistic to give her writing a more patriarchal tone.

    *Matriarchy among more or less social mammals, not black-widow spiders or eusocial insects or sponges or whatever.

    To be fair, Wu is a PhD candidate in biology, not math. Or logic for that matter.

  146. @Stan d Mute
    Ms Wu is a bit of an anomaly isn’t she? She’s not grotesquely fat nor Janet Reno homely. She’s not African or Jewish.

    So what personal failures is she hoping to blame on men? I’ve known even the most drop-dead gorgeous women to obsess over a single mole or freckle and seen them go batshit crazy over such things, so who knows? Maybe Haven Monahan dumped her for a Becky.

    Is it time yet to relitigate female suffrage? They seem to be suffraging overmuch and making our society and our posterity collapse in the process. Who could have ever guessed that fat, homely, neurotic, childless, and stupid women could cause harm when given absolute power?

    Is it time yet to relitigate female suffrage?

    Why would we do that?

    Non-college educated White women: 63% for Trump
    College White women: 44% for Trump
    White women for Trump: 53%

    Hillary outspent Trump by almost double, and still couldn’t get a majority of White women.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/09/us/politics/campaign-spending-donald-trump-hillary-clinton.html

    What else is there to say?

    • Replies: @Stan d Mute

    White women for Trump: 53%
     
    So 47% of white women voted for the replacement of white children with brown children from third world hellholes?

    And you ask why relitigate suffrage? Hasn’t America suffraged enough already?
  147. Anon[121] • Disclaimer says: • Website

    And this is what happens to hyenas when faced with male-dominant lions.

    A female-dominant West will be easy prey to lions of non-white world. Actually worse. At least hyenas see lions as enemies. White feminist hyenas welcome non-white lions into their domain with ‘welcome’ signs.

  148. @Rosamond Vincy
    Crimson has more of a blue undertone, and scarlet is more orange, right?

    Correct. I mostly remember scarlet being considered the most red of reds.

    Ah, now you made me recall some of the exotic fabrics I learned about. Bombazine!

    • Replies: @Rosamond Vincy
    Tell me about bombazine. Scarlett O'Hara has a black bombazine that she decides not to wear to Twelve Oaks barbecue because it might make her look old
  149. “…Much like the Greek Amazons and Wonder Woman…”
    So, we’re supposed to model our society on fictitious characters?

  150. @ThirdWorldSteveReader

    I found empowerment in an unexpected place: through the tale of the spotted hyena’s evolution — possibly one of the most inspirational examples of feminism in the natural world.
     
    Lo and behold the most inspirational example of feminism according to Miss Wu:

    https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Crocuta_crocuta#/media/File:Spotted_Hyaena_in_Kruger_Park.JPG

    If I were a feminist I would be offended.

    If I were a feminist I would be offended.

    It’s not a flattering comparison at all.

  151. @ThirdWorldSteveReader

    Therefore, hyenas necessarily need additional forms of selection, which probably helps account for the brutality of their behaviors.
     
    This makes sense. I found this article that states, among many interesting things (https://academic.oup.com/beheco/article/16/3/606/190314):

    Survivorship of cubs from birth through their first year was examined as a function of litter size, sex of cubs, and maternal rank. Overall, cub mortality was high (61%).
     

    Documented causes of mortality included intraclan infanticide, disease, orphaning, predation by lions, and a mechanism of filial infanticide that has not been previously described in this species: selective litter reduction by mothers via partial litter abandonment. No instances of facultative or obligate siblicide were detected.
     
    Also, this other article (http://science.sciencemag.org/content/252/5006/702)

    Neonates display elevated androgen levels, precocial motor development, and fully erupted front teeth. Litters are usually twins, and siblings fight violently at birth, apparently leading to the death of one sibling in same-sex litters, whereas in mixed-sex litters both siblings usually survive.
     
    A peaceful, empathetic, female-led existence indeed.

    A peaceful, empathetic, female-led existence indeed.

    I don’t think you can hang that one on the females. Excess testosterone (toxic masculinity) would seem to be the culprit.

    • LOL: Daniel Chieh
    • Replies: @ThirdWorldSteveReader
    The joke is that the one viable matriarchy in the mammal order - the one where males are not stronger and more agressive than females, the one Miss Wu thinks is an inspiration to human feminists - ended up not smashing the violent and toxic aspects of masculinity, but extending these aspects to the females and making the whole population nastier. Hyenas got rid of patriarchy and that made toxic masculinity even more widespread!
  152. @Daniel Chieh
    It really does sound like they are as alien to us as lizards. Lionesses, in comparison, display even the maladaptive empathy that we can see as kindness - such as when they attempt to adopt young prey animals as replacement cubs.

    Lionesses, in comparison, display even the maladaptive empathy that we can see as kindness – such as when they attempt to adopt young prey animals as replacement cubs.

    I don’t suppose nature has figured out a way to select for maternal instincts without the possibility of those instincts being misplaced from time to time.

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    Hardly. Hyenas seem to have managed it.
  153. @Daniel Chieh
    It really does sound like they are as alien to us as lizards. Lionesses, in comparison, display even the maladaptive empathy that we can see as kindness - such as when they attempt to adopt young prey animals as replacement cubs.

    Now that you mention… indeed, we don’t hear stories about interspecific adoptions involving hyena mothers.

    I found these people (https://hyena-project.com/2016/03/10/triplets-survive/) that say that hyenas sometimes adopt cubs from other hyenas, but presumably that’s all. Their research also came with other interesting info:

    Spotted hyena males can be very persistent when they have a crush on a female. They may follow the female’s every movement: lie down a few meters away from her when she decides to rest, observe her when she changes her position or lifts her head, and get up and follow her when she walks away – in human society, such a behavior would be considered as stalking. In spotted hyenas, males use this rather exhausting strategy to foster and maintain a friendly relationship with the female – and more if they hit it off. Staying nearby a female also allows the male to displace rivals if they come too close to their loved one or to defend the female if she is being aggressively harassed by another male – harassment by males occurs regularly but is a far less successful strategy than a charming courtship.

    (https://hyena-project.com/2016/06/17/its-tough-to-be-a-male-in-love/)

    So much for the shy and submissive hyena males that became stuff of legends in the press.

    Our new study now demonstrates, for the first time in a group-living mammal, that stay-home (philopatric) males and dispersers are not inherently different and have similar reproductive success. Our study further shows that their choice to stay at home or leave home is the outcome of a process during which all males answer the same question: which group will provide me with the best fitness prospects? Whether a spotted hyena male stays at home or hits the road simply depends on whether his birth clan or another clan contains the highest number of young females when he wants to start breeding.

    The main advantage is provided by their mothers. In the matriarchal system of spotted hyenas, females can influence the competition among males. Mothers provide social support to their stay-home sons and ensure they acquire a high social rank among breeding males. This gives the mama’s boys privileged access to both food and females, allowing them to invest a lot of time consorting females. And this pays off. Genetic paternity analyses showed that stay-home males father their first cubs at a younger age than dispersers and father almost exclusively cubs with high-ranking females

    https://hyena-project.com/2016/03/19/mamas-boys-are-not-losers-in-spotted-hyenas/

    http://advances.sciencemag.org/content/2/3/e1501236

    Insert inner-city social dynamiccs joke here.

  154. @Samuel Skinner

    QE1 was a single masculine female in a male-dominated society.
     
    Competent female leadership is found when said women has the approval of an alpha male (because in its absence women break stuff in order to smoke out who is alpha enough to stop her). Queen Elizabeth lived until 1603. From her coronation until 1598 she was advised by William Cecil.

    The relatively sex egalitarian Germanic societies overran the more male-dominated Western Roman Empire.
     
    Other way around. The male position grew weaker over time; (wiki)
    --
    In the Early Republic, a wife was "handed over" to the legal control of her husband in the form of marriage cum manu (Latin cum manu means "with hand"). If the man divorced his wife, he had to give the dowry back to his wife and her family.[10] By the Late Republic, manus marriage had become rare, and a woman legally remained part of her birth family.[11]
    --

    Competent female leadership is found when said women has the approval of an alpha male (because in its absence women break stuff in order to smoke out who is alpha enough to stop her).

    Evidence?

    I remember Black Pigeon saying White women wanted immigrants to come and out their men to the test. It would seem that is no longer a tenable position post-2016.

  155. @Daniel Chieh
    Correct. I mostly remember scarlet being considered the most red of reds.

    Ah, now you made me recall some of the exotic fabrics I learned about. Bombazine!

    Tell me about bombazine. Scarlett O’Hara has a black bombazine that she decides not to wear to Twelve Oaks barbecue because it might make her look old

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    Ah. But all women stop aging at 26 :)
  156. @Anon7
    I wonder if Ms. Wu understands just how deep the hate-filled wish that is Penis Envy goes? What a waste of time it is to send women to school. Even the “smart” ones use the abilities conferred on them (the ability to read, follow the logic of science, etc.) to go deeper into craziness.

    I also wonder how many men read her article and understand how revealing it is. This really is the feminist plan for America and the world.

    I wonder if Ms. Wu understands just how deep the hate-filled wish that is Penis Envy goes? What a waste of time it is to send women to school. Even the “smart” ones use the abilities conferred on them (the ability to read, follow the logic of science, etc.) to go deeper into craziness.

    At least you’re honest about the logical implications of dissident Right misogyny.

    I’m sure hostile elite control of every level of education in the West has nothing whatsoever to do with it.

    • Replies: @fredyetagain aka superhonky
    "At least you’re honest about the logical implications of dissident Right misogyny."

    Dissident Right "misogyny" is but a tempest in a teapot compared to dominant mainstream culture misandry.
  157. @Bugg
    "Much like the Greek Amazons and Wonder Woman, hyenas are a lineage of queens that prove the human assumption that patriarchies are inevitable — or even natural — completely wrong."

    This proposes 1. Greek Amazons and Wonder Woman, until now legends and cartoon characters, are real and natural things and 2. a small species of hyenas shows something about human societies. If anyone can unpack this illogic, get back to us.

    Great point, Bugg. It’s like the Wakanda delusion of several months back. Sentimental fiction as cited as “proof” of a wished-for “reality.”

  158. @Rosamond Vincy
    Tell me about bombazine. Scarlett O'Hara has a black bombazine that she decides not to wear to Twelve Oaks barbecue because it might make her look old

    Ah. But all women stop aging at 26 :)

    • Replies: @Rosamond Vincy
    Not in the Old South:

    "Poor India! It would be bad enough to have pale hair and eyelashes and a jutting chin that meant a stubborn disposition, without being twenty years old and an old maid in the bargain."
  159. @Rosie

    Unpleasant, violent, entitled, high-T women, soyboys and mass androgyny. So, yeah, basically feminist utopia.
     
    It seems that you think masculinity is some sort of zero sum game? I don't know about hyenas, but that's definitely doesn't seem to be the case among humans. White men think Latinas and Asian women are more feminine than White women, and I suppose there's some truth to that, but if you marry one, she will pass on her femininity to your sons as well as your daughters.

    It seems that you think masculinity is some sort of zero sum game?

    Naw, I was merely summarizing hyenas through the lens of click-bait feminists. Personally, I’m a big fan of sexual dimorphism.

  160. @Rosie

    Lionesses, in comparison, display even the maladaptive empathy that we can see as kindness – such as when they attempt to adopt young prey animals as replacement cubs.
     
    I don't suppose nature has figured out a way to select for maternal instincts without the possibility of those instincts being misplaced from time to time.

    Hardly. Hyenas seem to have managed it.

    • Replies: @Rosie

    Hardly. Hyenas seem to have managed it.
     
    At the price of being that repulsive, I'd say it's not worth it.
  161. Another “learning from nature” moment, which the left likes to promote at times (and condemn at other times in a way that only people without coherent principles can do.) A recent science fiction movie I watched had an attractive feminist entomologist lecturing a dumb white male on the superiority of insects’ social order over humans’ social order. “If only we could cooperate with each other the way they do,” she said.

    I’m no entomologist, but I’m guessing it’s instinct, not conscious cooperation, that makes insects behave as they do. Still, an ant farm must be the best model for utopia for many leftists.

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh

    A recent science fiction movie I watched had an attractive feminist entomologist lecturing a dumb white male on the superiority of insects’ social order over humans’ social order. “If only we could cooperate with each other the way they do,” she said.
     
    Yeah, sterilization of the proles!
  162. @Rosie

    So what personal failures is she hoping to blame on men? I’ve known even the most drop-dead gorgeous women to obsess over a single mole or freckle and seen them go batshit crazy over such things, so who knows? Maybe Haven Monahan dumped her for a Becky.
     
    It's to be expected when you stop and think about it. There seems to be an assumption among many on the dissident Right that only ugly women resent being judged primarily on their appearance. This is a gross falsehood. Beautiful women who are also intelligent come to realize in time how dehumanizing it is, and not always when they are old.

    "Mirror, mirror on the wall..."

    Beautiful women who are also intelligent come to realize in time how dehumanizing it is, and not always when they are old.

    I don’t doubt it, but I want to comment that the dehumanization is more on the eyes of the beholder than on the standard applied.

    I think the woman who resents being judged primarily by appearance would also resent being judged primarily by her intelligence, or by her character, or by her good-will, or by her productivity – even if they state otherwise. Being judged by any standard can feel dehumanizing, and there is really no good solution for people too sensitive to it.

    • Replies: @Rosie

    I think the woman who resents being judged primarily by appearance would also resent being judged primarily by her intelligence, or by her character, or by her good-will, or by her productivity – even if they state otherwise. Being judged by any standard can feel dehumanizing, and there is really no good solution for people too sensitive to it.
     
    I quite agree with you that being judged by any single standard feels dehumanizing to anyone who doesn't measure up, but the solution is clear enough: judging everyone by multiple standards. That way, we can all see the good in each other, and by extension, ourselves.

    PS I don't think anyone resents being judged on their character, and if they do, who cares what they think?

  163. @JMcG
    In the same way the gun grabbers have dropped the facade and started openly calling for repeal of the second amendment and gun confiscation, even more mainstream feminists are now calling for female domination rather than equality.
    Imagine being governed by your friendly local HR department.

    Yeah, about the HR ladies, the Scourge of the Business World. ( Part 2, Toby Flenderson, and Part 3)

  164. @Daniel Chieh
    Hardly. Hyenas seem to have managed it.

    Hardly. Hyenas seem to have managed it.

    At the price of being that repulsive, I’d say it’s not worth it.

  165. @Rosie

    A peaceful, empathetic, female-led existence indeed.
     
    I don't think you can hang that one on the females. Excess testosterone (toxic masculinity) would seem to be the culprit.

    The joke is that the one viable matriarchy in the mammal order – the one where males are not stronger and more agressive than females, the one Miss Wu thinks is an inspiration to human feminists – ended up not smashing the violent and toxic aspects of masculinity, but extending these aspects to the females and making the whole population nastier. Hyenas got rid of patriarchy and that made toxic masculinity even more widespread!

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    Indeed. And fundamentally, it is not maladaptive. The price of matriarchy is utter, terrible nastiness extended to everyone. That the replacement for male competition and dominance.

    And it might not even work that well. Hyenas have been losing range to wolves and other competitors for a long, long time.

    , @Rosie

    Hyenas got rid of patriarchy and that made toxic masculinity even more widespread!
     
    Hmmm. I'll have to mull that over this evening.
  166. Why stop at hyenas? Why not use the praying mantis as the role mode for today’s women? The female praying mantis bites off the head of the male mantis as soon as mating is complete. Is this not a model for our times?

    • LOL: Rosie
  167. @Rosie

    I wonder if Ms. Wu understands just how deep the hate-filled wish that is Penis Envy goes? What a waste of time it is to send women to school. Even the “smart” ones use the abilities conferred on them (the ability to read, follow the logic of science, etc.) to go deeper into craziness.
     
    At least you're honest about the logical implications of dissident Right misogyny.

    I'm sure hostile elite control of every level of education in the West has nothing whatsoever to do with it.

    “At least you’re honest about the logical implications of dissident Right misogyny.”

    Dissident Right “misogyny” is but a tempest in a teapot compared to dominant mainstream culture misandry.

    • Agree: Stan d Mute
    • Replies: @Rosie

    Dissident Right “misogyny” is but a tempest in a teapot compared to dominant mainstream culture misandry.
     
    I dare you to go lurk on feminist sites and look for women saying that men shouldn't be allowed to go to school because they'll just use their education to sabotage society. Go ahead I'll wait.

    The dissident Right is a teapot, though, and such it will remain if the woman-haters drive the rest of us off.
  168. @J1234
    Another "learning from nature" moment, which the left likes to promote at times (and condemn at other times in a way that only people without coherent principles can do.) A recent science fiction movie I watched had an attractive feminist entomologist lecturing a dumb white male on the superiority of insects' social order over humans' social order. "If only we could cooperate with each other the way they do," she said.

    I'm no entomologist, but I'm guessing it's instinct, not conscious cooperation, that makes insects behave as they do. Still, an ant farm must be the best model for utopia for many leftists.

    A recent science fiction movie I watched had an attractive feminist entomologist lecturing a dumb white male on the superiority of insects’ social order over humans’ social order. “If only we could cooperate with each other the way they do,” she said.

    Yeah, sterilization of the proles!

  169. News Flash: In most of the species in the world the female is larger than the male, because most species are bugs. The trend is the more advanced the animal the more likely the male is to be bigger. Feminists truly want to devolve us. Or they are just stupid.

  170. @ThirdWorldSteveReader
    The joke is that the one viable matriarchy in the mammal order - the one where males are not stronger and more agressive than females, the one Miss Wu thinks is an inspiration to human feminists - ended up not smashing the violent and toxic aspects of masculinity, but extending these aspects to the females and making the whole population nastier. Hyenas got rid of patriarchy and that made toxic masculinity even more widespread!

    Indeed. And fundamentally, it is not maladaptive. The price of matriarchy is utter, terrible nastiness extended to everyone. That the replacement for male competition and dominance.

    And it might not even work that well. Hyenas have been losing range to wolves and other competitors for a long, long time.

  171. Soooo. . . . Matriarchy is only possible with a (pseudo)penis?

  172. @julius caesar
    I think the difference is not whether a society is led by a man or a woman but rather whether the society has a masculine culture or a feminine culture. Catherine the Great was ruler of Russia and was probably as hard headed as any male ruler of that times, which may have less to do with her gender and more to do with the culture of her times.

    Contrast that to today's hyper feminine culture, dominated by women with liberal arts degrees. Wouldn't that make society far weaker to deal with existential threats, like defense or mass migration? Merkel saw a million men marching at Berlin and flung open the borders. When thousands of women were sexually assaulted, her government tried to hide it up.

    One picture of a child migrant and all laws must be set aside, because Emotions.

    One picture of a child migrant and all laws must be set aside, because Emotions.

    How do we know the crybabies aren’t just a vocal minority? 93% of voters i this town opposed welcoming refugees, which means that the women voters were at least 80% opposed. Of course, it was forced on them anyway.

    https://voiceofeurope.com/2018/03/small-irish-town-forced-to-take-115-third-world-refugees/

  173. @Patrick Sullivan

    While the boys in my elementary school were encouraged to focus on their professional achievement and financial success, I was instructed to cross my legs, minimize my food intake, and coo at plastic babies with fluttering eyelids.
     
    Odd that her female elementary school teachers in 2003 insisted she conform to an imaginary stereotype of growing up female in 1940.

    Absolutely. I’m a 55-year old female, likely a lot older than she is, and got none of that growing up. Reading something like that is as aggravating as hearing Catholics my age kvetch about how awful their Catholic schools were. None of my cohorts got their knuckles rapped by a nun or got inculcated with “Catholic guilt” over being sexual human beings, but to hear some folks go on, one’d never know it.

  174. @ThirdWorldSteveReader
    The joke is that the one viable matriarchy in the mammal order - the one where males are not stronger and more agressive than females, the one Miss Wu thinks is an inspiration to human feminists - ended up not smashing the violent and toxic aspects of masculinity, but extending these aspects to the females and making the whole population nastier. Hyenas got rid of patriarchy and that made toxic masculinity even more widespread!

    Hyenas got rid of patriarchy and that made toxic masculinity even more widespread!

    Hmmm. I’ll have to mull that over this evening.

  175. @Rosie

    Perhaps women cannot understand logic.
     
    Which is why we're the majority of law students, with nearly equal bar passage rates.

    Actually your examples undermines your position. Law is man made. It is almost exclusively about memorization and language skills. There is no logic in the 20,000 pages of EU regulations on cabbage production and transportation.

    Math is logic. One way to view it is that it is the study of the foundations of the universe. There is nothing man made about it. Men dominate in the math field despite all the privileges women get.

    • Replies: @Rosie

    Law is man made. It is almost exclusively about memorization and language skills.
     
    You don't know what you're talking about. If you don't have logical reasoning skillls, you can't score high enough on the LSAT to get into law school, and if all you do is memorize legal principles, you won't pass the bar.
  176. @ThirdWorldSteveReader

    Beautiful women who are also intelligent come to realize in time how dehumanizing it is, and not always when they are old.
     
    I don't doubt it, but I want to comment that the dehumanization is more on the eyes of the beholder than on the standard applied.

    I think the woman who resents being judged primarily by appearance would also resent being judged primarily by her intelligence, or by her character, or by her good-will, or by her productivity - even if they state otherwise. Being judged by any standard can feel dehumanizing, and there is really no good solution for people too sensitive to it.

    I think the woman who resents being judged primarily by appearance would also resent being judged primarily by her intelligence, or by her character, or by her good-will, or by her productivity – even if they state otherwise. Being judged by any standard can feel dehumanizing, and there is really no good solution for people too sensitive to it.

    I quite agree with you that being judged by any single standard feels dehumanizing to anyone who doesn’t measure up, but the solution is clear enough: judging everyone by multiple standards. That way, we can all see the good in each other, and by extension, ourselves.

    PS I don’t think anyone resents being judged on their character, and if they do, who cares what they think?

    • Replies: @ThirdWorldSteveReader

    I quite agree with you that being judged by any single standard feels dehumanizing to anyone who doesn’t measure up...
     
    The original point was about being judged primarily by one standard, not singly, but my point fits both, so let me carry on.

    My point is more that it can feel dehumanizing even for the ones who measure up. The beautiful girl might enjoy being judged pretty, but still feel bad that the other aspects of her life and personality are being ignored. And in that case, whatever we set the predominant standard to be, she's bound to be unsatisfied. If Miss Wu dislikes being judged by her pretty figure (because she's not just for showing, she has brains too, and is proud of them!), I doubt she would be much happier if she were judged primarily by her intelligence (because she's not just a machine, you know, she has other attributes!), or character (because she's more than her good decisions...).

    ...but the solution is clear enough: judging everyone by multiple standards
     
    I agree on the substance. The usual problem of multiple standards is that one or two of them tend to become more salient than all the others, and then we get... well, we get what we already have.

    The thing is, I doubt that Miss Wu or other pretty girls in her position are always being judged solely (or mostly) on their looks. Most people are appreciative of other qualities, much specially in the kind of microsociety these women live. I'm quite confident that her PhD supervisor, her undergrad teacher who wrote her recommendation letters, her editors at the sciency magazines she writes for... they all saw more than just beauty. Yet she and others like her still feel bad, even though they are being judged on multiple fronts and are getting good evaluations on the main standard. That's why I put it as a matter of sensitivity in the first place; some people are very sensitive, and no change of standards can change them. I think we may just need to realise some people have this little flaw and tolerate it without giving it too much weight in discussions of public policy.
  177. @AndrewR
    Elizabeth, like all queens regnant, was a figurehead for the male power structure. A cursory study of queens regnant reveals they almost invariably rely more on their spouses and advisors than kings ever do.

    “Elizabeth, like all queens regnant, was a figurehead for the male power structure. “

    The ‘male power structure’ of her Court spent the first twenty years of her reign trying to get her to marry and produce an heir. Which she refused to do, never point-blank but with many evasions, obfuscations and diversions.

    She also had quite a few members of the male power structure beheaded, even former favourites like Essex. No figurehead she, Henry VIII’s daughter. She chose her own advisers and chose well. Contrast with Mary Queen of Scots.

    Almost her dying words, to a courtier suggesting that “you must take to bed to content the people“.

    “Little man, is must a word to use to princes?”

  178. • Replies: @njguy73
    At least hyenas don't write pseudoscientific drivel. And they don't pursue degrees in Hyena Studies.
  179. @the one they call Desanex
    Good one. It took me a few seconds to figure it out, so not “LOL”, but just as good.

    I thought of using letes, but decided to go slightly more subtle.

  180. @jb
    That was the part that most amazed me -- that Wu is actually a PhD student at Harvard! How is that even possible?!? How could a person that actually knows a little bit about biology miss the fact that the spotted hyena is actually an argument for biological determinism: i.e., female hyenas are dominant because that's hyena biology, while in humans the male is dominant because that is human biology?

    I am so sorry that Vox doesn't allow comments, because they would be very entertaining to read. Actually I notice that most sites that publish nonsense like this don't have comments. Somehow I don't think that is an accident...

    How could a person that actually knows a little bit about biology miss the fact that the spotted hyena is actually an argument for biological determinism

    It gets even weirder and stupider when you read the piece:

    And the pseudopenis itself? It’s a bit of a misnomer. It’s actually a clitoris, just a very big one.

    Which means female hyenas haven’t manipulated their way to the top by assuming the traits of another sex. Rather, they’re showcasing an exaggerated version of their most uniquely female anatomy.

    Clitoris and penis are homologous structures; that’s not news to anyone who took biology classes. There’s no misnomer, and this organ is not most uniquely female in any way. And the female hyenas did assume traits of the other sex – they have high testosterone levels, FFS!

    That’s why I said: either she’s trolling or she’s lying. More likely the second, as she has clearly profited from having the Correct Views of 2018.

  181. @Rosamond Vincy
    Both males and females at my elementary school went around accusing each other of having cooties. I didn't even know what cooties were, and I suspect neither did many of my classmates. I had vague notions that it was something like personal radioactivity with a touch of B.O.

    All I know, and every boy in elementary school with me also knew, is that girls definitely had cooties.

    Thankfully, by junior high, that affliction seems to have cleared up..

  182. Unlike most other mammals, spotted hyenas (Crocuta crocuta) live in matriarchal societies led by alpha females. In these clans throughout sub-Saharan Africa, females do the majority of the hunting, dictate the social structure, and raise cubs as single mothers. Even the highest-ranking male in the group is subservient to the most junior female.

    Sounds very similar to sub-Saharan Africa humans who are now who now reside in North America. By and large Black women raise there kids as single mothers and bring home most of the bacon. Based on observations of African American male football players reverence of there mothers, for Black households, the mothers are alpha.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Like I said, casting Whoopi Goldberg as leader of the hyena pack in The Lion King was probably not accidental.
    , @Stan d Mute

    African ... mothers are alpha.
     
    Of course they are, look at the SIZE of them!
  183. @Daniel Chieh
    Ah. But all women stop aging at 26 :)

    Not in the Old South:

    “Poor India! It would be bad enough to have pale hair and eyelashes and a jutting chin that meant a stubborn disposition, without being twenty years old and an old maid in the bargain.”

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    It really does remind me a lot of what Pagilia talked about. The overall destruction of culture that we've experienced now has been so total that many don't even remember what once existed: the entire "woman's culture" of all those seemingly silly things, but which nonetheless built up its own language of expected mores, knowledge, and even a language of sorts is all pretty much gone now.

    Everything really does feel so brutalized now; like architecture, like people, like culture.
  184. Didn’t Jane Goodall study Spotted Hyenas back in 70s also? She was also looking for a feminist society in Mother Nature as well, but decided they didn’t fit the bill, so she dropped studying them. I guess she realized Amazons and Wonder Woman were not real, unlike like Ms. Wu.

  185. @Rosie

    3) Catfights. The endless catfights of gossip and rumors and sneakiness. Everyone had a “gentle nature” or so she would claim – this was before Tough Girls Are Cool was as much of a thing. And everyone was such a bitch at heart.
     
    I'll just keep posting this until further notice.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5458635/Men-gossip-women-likely-threaten-rivals.html

    Men and women's both gossip, but for different reasons. Women gossip to blow off steam without causing a conspicuous confrontation or hurt feelings. Sometimes it backfires and our confidant turns out to be less trustworthy than we imagined. This becomes less and less frequent as we get older and wiser.

    Men gossip to take down their rivals. If there is any doubt as to this, just follow alt-Right politics for a spell.

    Women talking to other women about other women is gossip.

    Men talking to other men about sports is not gossip.

    A 35-year career of having to make small talk with both men and women in professional situations has given me a pretty good idea about what they want to talk about.

    That it was a self-survey done by emasculated Brits who’ve coughed up the Sceptered Isle to the barbarian hasn’t sunk in yet, huh? If we were a nation with a long history of Page Three Girls and the lurid popular press, we too might be nattering chicks like the guys in Britain.

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/mar/06/make-catcalling-a-hate-crime-labour-mp-to-urge-parliament
    , @Rosie

    Women talking to other women about other women is gossip.
     
    Well, I suppose if you're going to define gossip as something only women do, then you can say only women gossip.

    That it was a self-survey done by emasculated Brits who’ve coughed up the Sceptered Isle to the barbarian hasn’t sunk in yet, huh?
     
    I would think the fact that it was a self-survey would tend to bolster it's credibility.
  186. @George Taylor

    Unlike most other mammals, spotted hyenas (Crocuta crocuta) live in matriarchal societies led by alpha females. In these clans throughout sub-Saharan Africa, females do the majority of the hunting, dictate the social structure, and raise cubs as single mothers. Even the highest-ranking male in the group is subservient to the most junior female.
     
    Sounds very similar to sub-Saharan Africa humans who are now who now reside in North America. By and large Black women raise there kids as single mothers and bring home most of the bacon. Based on observations of African American male football players reverence of there mothers, for Black households, the mothers are alpha.

    Like I said, casting Whoopi Goldberg as leader of the hyena pack in The Lion King was probably not accidental.

  187. @Rosie

    Perhaps women cannot understand logic.
     
    Which is why we're the majority of law students, with nearly equal bar passage rates.

    The majority of law school students, and possibly soon, in the not too distant future, the majority of lawyers, eh?

    So, maybe women are modeling themselves on hyenas after all…

  188. @Rosie

    So what personal failures is she hoping to blame on men? I’ve known even the most drop-dead gorgeous women to obsess over a single mole or freckle and seen them go batshit crazy over such things, so who knows? Maybe Haven Monahan dumped her for a Becky.
     
    It's to be expected when you stop and think about it. There seems to be an assumption among many on the dissident Right that only ugly women resent being judged primarily on their appearance. This is a gross falsehood. Beautiful women who are also intelligent come to realize in time how dehumanizing it is, and not always when they are old.

    "Mirror, mirror on the wall..."

    Everyone is judged on their appearance. Thus we have the expression, “appearances matter.”

    Everyone is judged on everything.

    If you never want to be judged, stay home with your “special friend” and pretend you’re both the prettiest princesses on Lezbo Island. (You and you’re used editorially)

    Public mockery is an immensely powerful tool. The leftists use it to great effect. It’s long past time we return the favor. Just point and laugh.

  189. @Brutusale
    Women talking to other women about other women is gossip.

    Men talking to other men about sports is not gossip.

    A 35-year career of having to make small talk with both men and women in professional situations has given me a pretty good idea about what they want to talk about.

    That it was a self-survey done by emasculated Brits who've coughed up the Sceptered Isle to the barbarian hasn't sunk in yet, huh? If we were a nation with a long history of Page Three Girls and the lurid popular press, we too might be nattering chicks like the guys in Britain.
  190. Note again this bizarre and disturbing predilection recently for people to cite escapist, zany fiction as evidence for a serious proposition. Look, literature that reflects important realities about the world and the human condition, even if it be speculative fiction, can be validly cited to illustrate something: Hamlet contains much truth and wisdom about vacillation;The Moon is a Harsh Mistress about tyranny, etc.

    But to cite Wonder Women and the Greek myths of Amazons as probative that women create viable societies and “don’t need no man” is just stupid. Not least because it denies basic biology but because it is one thing to cite Heinlein’s valid observations about sociopolitical phenomena notwithstanding his exotic setting, but it is quite another to cite Chuck Jones’ works about anthropomorphic, invincible coyotes for propositions about the laws of physics. The creature writing about Wonder Woman here is doing the latter….

  191. @Rosie

    Is it time yet to relitigate female suffrage?
     
    Why would we do that?

    Non-college educated White women: 63% for Trump
    College White women: 44% for Trump
    White women for Trump: 53%

    Hillary outspent Trump by almost double, and still couldn't get a majority of White women.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/09/us/politics/campaign-spending-donald-trump-hillary-clinton.html

    What else is there to say?

    White women for Trump: 53%

    So 47% of white women voted for the replacement of white children with brown children from third world hellholes?

    And you ask why relitigate suffrage? Hasn’t America suffraged enough already?

    • Replies: @Rosie

    So 47% of white women voted for the replacement of white children with brown children from third world hellholes?
     
    They voted for Hillary because White men allowed Jews to take over the Academy and brainwash the youth.

    Meanwhile, greedy White men import brown people to replace White workers and stiff the taxpayer with the bill.

  192. @George Taylor

    Unlike most other mammals, spotted hyenas (Crocuta crocuta) live in matriarchal societies led by alpha females. In these clans throughout sub-Saharan Africa, females do the majority of the hunting, dictate the social structure, and raise cubs as single mothers. Even the highest-ranking male in the group is subservient to the most junior female.
     
    Sounds very similar to sub-Saharan Africa humans who are now who now reside in North America. By and large Black women raise there kids as single mothers and bring home most of the bacon. Based on observations of African American male football players reverence of there mothers, for Black households, the mothers are alpha.

    African … mothers are alpha.

    Of course they are, look at the SIZE of them!

  193. @Joe Stalin
    "In the US laws now destroy law and the liberty that once was protected by law."

    "Where is our protection when the law is cut down?"

    - Paul C. Roberts

    In order to preserve our liberties, each of us must become an advocate of them, and by that each of us potential Jury Members must insist on the exercise of our right to practice Judicial Nullification.

    Yes, the government can pass their anti-gun "laws," have their MSM support said "laws," have their Judiciary uphold such "laws" in their Courts, but the citizen in the Jury box still retains their right to provide the final bulwark to such illegality.

    I couldn’t agree more. I’ve actually done it.

  194. @The preferred nomenclature is...
    She does know Wonder Woman is fiction, right?

    Now that I think about, she may not. Wow.

    Forget Wonder Woman (which was created a bondage fetish wish fulfillment by a misogynistic man), the Amazonian Greeks were fictional.
    An appeal to fiction is the last refuge of the scoundrel.

  195. @Rosie

    I think the woman who resents being judged primarily by appearance would also resent being judged primarily by her intelligence, or by her character, or by her good-will, or by her productivity – even if they state otherwise. Being judged by any standard can feel dehumanizing, and there is really no good solution for people too sensitive to it.
     
    I quite agree with you that being judged by any single standard feels dehumanizing to anyone who doesn't measure up, but the solution is clear enough: judging everyone by multiple standards. That way, we can all see the good in each other, and by extension, ourselves.

    PS I don't think anyone resents being judged on their character, and if they do, who cares what they think?

    I quite agree with you that being judged by any single standard feels dehumanizing to anyone who doesn’t measure up…

    The original point was about being judged primarily by one standard, not singly, but my point fits both, so let me carry on.

    My point is more that it can feel dehumanizing even for the ones who measure up. The beautiful girl might enjoy being judged pretty, but still feel bad that the other aspects of her life and personality are being ignored. And in that case, whatever we set the predominant standard to be, she’s bound to be unsatisfied. If Miss Wu dislikes being judged by her pretty figure (because she’s not just for showing, she has brains too, and is proud of them!), I doubt she would be much happier if she were judged primarily by her intelligence (because she’s not just a machine, you know, she has other attributes!), or character (because she’s more than her good decisions…).

    …but the solution is clear enough: judging everyone by multiple standards

    I agree on the substance. The usual problem of multiple standards is that one or two of them tend to become more salient than all the others, and then we get… well, we get what we already have.

    The thing is, I doubt that Miss Wu or other pretty girls in her position are always being judged solely (or mostly) on their looks. Most people are appreciative of other qualities, much specially in the kind of microsociety these women live. I’m quite confident that her PhD supervisor, her undergrad teacher who wrote her recommendation letters, her editors at the sciency magazines she writes for… they all saw more than just beauty. Yet she and others like her still feel bad, even though they are being judged on multiple fronts and are getting good evaluations on the main standard. That’s why I put it as a matter of sensitivity in the first place; some people are very sensitive, and no change of standards can change them. I think we may just need to realise some people have this little flaw and tolerate it without giving it too much weight in discussions of public policy.

  196. @Rosamond Vincy
    Not in the Old South:

    "Poor India! It would be bad enough to have pale hair and eyelashes and a jutting chin that meant a stubborn disposition, without being twenty years old and an old maid in the bargain."

    It really does remind me a lot of what Pagilia talked about. The overall destruction of culture that we’ve experienced now has been so total that many don’t even remember what once existed: the entire “woman’s culture” of all those seemingly silly things, but which nonetheless built up its own language of expected mores, knowledge, and even a language of sorts is all pretty much gone now.

    Everything really does feel so brutalized now; like architecture, like people, like culture.

  197. @fredyetagain aka superhonky
    "At least you’re honest about the logical implications of dissident Right misogyny."

    Dissident Right "misogyny" is but a tempest in a teapot compared to dominant mainstream culture misandry.

    Dissident Right “misogyny” is but a tempest in a teapot compared to dominant mainstream culture misandry.

    I dare you to go lurk on feminist sites and look for women saying that men shouldn’t be allowed to go to school because they’ll just use their education to sabotage society. Go ahead I’ll wait.

    The dissident Right is a teapot, though, and such it will remain if the woman-haters drive the rest of us off.

    • Replies: @fredyetagain aka superhonky
    "I dare you to go lurk on feminist sites and look for women saying that men shouldn’t be allowed to go to school because they’ll just use their education to sabotage society."

    You aren't paying attention to the misandry entrenched in our popular culture. That men shouldn't be allowed to go to school would be an absolutely milquetoast sentiment compared to some of the actual statements that feminists are making about men nowadays.
    , @snorlax
    Go read Jezebel and its comments section. Comments along those lines and much more extreme are par for the course.
  198. @Peripatetic commenter
    Perhaps women cannot understand logic.

    Perhaps?

  199. @Scott66
    Actually your examples undermines your position. Law is man made. It is almost exclusively about memorization and language skills. There is no logic in the 20,000 pages of EU regulations on cabbage production and transportation.

    Math is logic. One way to view it is that it is the study of the foundations of the universe. There is nothing man made about it. Men dominate in the math field despite all the privileges women get.

    Law is man made. It is almost exclusively about memorization and language skills.

    You don’t know what you’re talking about. If you don’t have logical reasoning skillls, you can’t score high enough on the LSAT to get into law school, and if all you do is memorize legal principles, you won’t pass the bar.

    • Replies: @Scott66
    Nope - Law is definition, pure memorization. Mix that with some theatrical skills and you have your best lawyers. Picture a great lawyer and then a great mathematician. Do they look the same to you? I understand that the current view of what makes someone smart is the ability to memorize and regurgitate, but this is not the same as logic.
  200. @Stan d Mute

    White women for Trump: 53%
     
    So 47% of white women voted for the replacement of white children with brown children from third world hellholes?

    And you ask why relitigate suffrage? Hasn’t America suffraged enough already?

    So 47% of white women voted for the replacement of white children with brown children from third world hellholes?

    They voted for Hillary because White men allowed Jews to take over the Academy and brainwash the youth.

    Meanwhile, greedy White men import brown people to replace White workers and stiff the taxpayer with the bill.

  201. @Rosie

    Dissident Right “misogyny” is but a tempest in a teapot compared to dominant mainstream culture misandry.
     
    I dare you to go lurk on feminist sites and look for women saying that men shouldn't be allowed to go to school because they'll just use their education to sabotage society. Go ahead I'll wait.

    The dissident Right is a teapot, though, and such it will remain if the woman-haters drive the rest of us off.

    “I dare you to go lurk on feminist sites and look for women saying that men shouldn’t be allowed to go to school because they’ll just use their education to sabotage society.”

    You aren’t paying attention to the misandry entrenched in our popular culture. That men shouldn’t be allowed to go to school would be an absolutely milquetoast sentiment compared to some of the actual statements that feminists are making about men nowadays.

  202. @Rosie

    Dissident Right “misogyny” is but a tempest in a teapot compared to dominant mainstream culture misandry.
     
    I dare you to go lurk on feminist sites and look for women saying that men shouldn't be allowed to go to school because they'll just use their education to sabotage society. Go ahead I'll wait.

    The dissident Right is a teapot, though, and such it will remain if the woman-haters drive the rest of us off.

    Go read Jezebel and its comments section. Comments along those lines and much more extreme are par for the course.

  203. @Rosie

    Perhaps women cannot understand logic.
     
    Which is why we're the majority of law students, with nearly equal bar passage rates.

    You mean like Hillary Clinton or Michelle Obama?

    • Replies: @Rosie

    You mean like Hillary Clinton or Michelle Obama?
     
    Yes, and Phyllis Schlaffly.
  204. @Rosie

    Law is man made. It is almost exclusively about memorization and language skills.
     
    You don't know what you're talking about. If you don't have logical reasoning skillls, you can't score high enough on the LSAT to get into law school, and if all you do is memorize legal principles, you won't pass the bar.

    Nope – Law is definition, pure memorization. Mix that with some theatrical skills and you have your best lawyers. Picture a great lawyer and then a great mathematician. Do they look the same to you? I understand that the current view of what makes someone smart is the ability to memorize and regurgitate, but this is not the same as logic.

    • Disagree: Autochthon
    • Replies: @Rosie

    Nope – Law is definition, pure memorization. Mix that with some theatrical skills and you have your best lawyers. Picture a great lawyer and then a great mathematician. Do they look the same to you? I understand that the current view of what makes someone smart is the ability to memorize and regurgitate, but this is not the same as logic.
     
    Bar examinees don't regurgitate. They analyze and apply.

    In order to become a bar examinee, you have to take the LSAT, which has three parts:

    Reading Comprehension
    Logical Reasoning
    Analytical Reasoning

    Now stop making a fool of yourself.
    , @Autochthon
    No thinking person who has sat the LSAT or a bar exam can possibly have written this statement save in jest.
    , @Autochthon
    Hey, Scott, just for poop and grins, have you memorized the answers to these questions, or would you just use superiour acting skills to answer them? Do tell.

    LSAT Logic Games: Sample Questions

    Jason enters six races: biking, canoeing, horseback riding, ice skating, running, and swimming. He places between first and fifth in each. Two places are consecutive only if the place numbers are consecutive. Jason's places in canoeing and running are consecutive. His places in ice skating and swimming are consecutive. He places higher in biking than in horseback riding. He places higher in canoeing than in running.

    1. If Jason places higher in running than in biking and places higher in biking than in ice skating and swimming, which one of the following allows all six of his race rankings to be determined?

    A. He places fourth in horseback riding.
    B. He places fourth in ice skating.
    C. He places the same in both horseback riding and ice skating.
    D. He places the same in both horseback riding and swimming.
    E. He places higher in horseback riding than in swimming.

    2. If Jason places higher in running than in biking and places higher in horseback riding than in ice skating, exactly how many of his rankings can be determined?

    A. 2
    B. 3
    C. 4
    D. 5
    E. 6

    3. Assume that Jason's rank in running is higher than his rank in ice skating and consecutive with it, and that his rankings in swimming and running differ. Which one of the following must be true?

    A. Jason places both first and second.
    B. Jason places both first and third.
    C. Jason places both second and fourth.
    D. Jason places both second and fifth.
    E. Jason places both fourth and fifth.

    Historians frequently argue that an outlet for population overflow is required for a country's economy to prosper. But we need look no further than our own shores to find counter-evidence: Cuba has long been able to rid itself of its surplus population by sending people here, and yet its economy has done quite poorly.

    The reasoning above is most vulnerable to which one of the following criticisms?

    A. It mistakenly interprets the historians to be claiming that a factor that guarantees, rather than is necessary for, a result.
    B. It relies on evidence that merely restates the argument's conclusion.
    C. It uses an analogy that ignores an important distinction between the things being compared.
    D. It attacks a view by calling into question the character of the supporters of that view.
    E. It presents an argument without offering any evidence in support.
     
  205. @Peripatetic commenter
    You mean like Hillary Clinton or Michelle Obama?

    You mean like Hillary Clinton or Michelle Obama?

    Yes, and Phyllis Schlaffly.

    • Replies: @Rosamond Vincy
    Schlafly could make today's Feminists cry.
  206. @Scott66
    Nope - Law is definition, pure memorization. Mix that with some theatrical skills and you have your best lawyers. Picture a great lawyer and then a great mathematician. Do they look the same to you? I understand that the current view of what makes someone smart is the ability to memorize and regurgitate, but this is not the same as logic.

    Nope – Law is definition, pure memorization. Mix that with some theatrical skills and you have your best lawyers. Picture a great lawyer and then a great mathematician. Do they look the same to you? I understand that the current view of what makes someone smart is the ability to memorize and regurgitate, but this is not the same as logic.

    Bar examinees don’t regurgitate. They analyze and apply.

    In order to become a bar examinee, you have to take the LSAT, which has three parts:

    Reading Comprehension
    Logical Reasoning
    Analytical Reasoning

    Now stop making a fool of yourself.

  207. @a boy and his dog
    Someone wrote a nice article debunking this nonsense

    https://www.thestranger.com/slog/2018/06/21/27981178/vox-says-hyenas-are-feminist-hyenas-say-what-the-fuck-is-feminism

    At least hyenas don’t write pseudoscientific drivel. And they don’t pursue degrees in Hyena Studies.

  208. Asians are very driven to succeed in the work world. Women are very driven to attract attention to themselves. Combine those two and you get young female Asians who detect which way the cultural winds are blowing on campuses and the media and use them to gain attention and further their careers. As the number and power of Asians rise in the US, this isn’t going to bode well for white men and serves as another reason to secretly limit immigration of non whites.

    I wonder if she doesn’t have the ability to differentiate between fantasy and reality or she simply has such a low opinion of Vox readers that she feels she can say anything as long as she sticks to the SJW party line.

  209. @Rosie

    You mean like Hillary Clinton or Michelle Obama?
     
    Yes, and Phyllis Schlaffly.

    Schlafly could make today’s Feminists cry.

  210. @Scott66
    Nope - Law is definition, pure memorization. Mix that with some theatrical skills and you have your best lawyers. Picture a great lawyer and then a great mathematician. Do they look the same to you? I understand that the current view of what makes someone smart is the ability to memorize and regurgitate, but this is not the same as logic.

    No thinking person who has sat the LSAT or a bar exam can possibly have written this statement save in jest.

  211. Looks like Ms Wu got it all wrong. “Oliver Höner, a research scientist at the Leibniz Institute for Zoo and Wildlife and the co-founder of the Spotted Hyena Project, a research project based in Tanzania”, responds to her feminist hyena article.

  212. Here is an article about the factual errors in the Vox piece

    https://www.thestranger.com/slog/2018/06/21/27981178/vox-says-hyenas-are-feminist-hyenas-say-what-the-fuck-is-feminism

    The author of the above reached out to the Hyena Project—“We’ve been studying spotted hyenas in the #Ngorongoro Crater for over 20 years.” (tweeting about the Vox article)

    Excerpts:

    1. “Even the highest-ranking male in the group is subservient to the most junior female.” This statement is wrong because both sons and daughters obtain the social rank just below their mother. As an example, the son of an alpha female will be ranked just below his mother, and above ALL other females (and males) of the clan.

    2. “Females do the majority of the hunting, dictate the social structure….” Immigrant males are ranked below all native clan members and have to do most of the hunting to get enough food to survive. Females do not dictate the social structure: It is influenced equally by females and males.

    3. “Male spotted hyenas have evolved to be comparatively diminutive.” A recent scientific study on a large number of hyenas has shown that sexual size dimorphism is very small and only evident in some morphological traits and absent in others.

    Then, Wu writes, “Spotted hyenas are fiercely loyal to their packs, cooperating in everything from child care to distributing shares of food.”

    Yeah, no. “Spotted hyena females do not cooperate in rearing their cubs but only suckle their own cubs. Adoptions are very rare and seem to be the result of confusion rather than intended cooperation,” Höner says. “They also do not cooperate in the strict sense when hunting and they certainly do not distribute shares of food (except with their own cubs).”

    “Males actually regularly team up to harass single females,” he says. “We even have a specific term for this: ‘baiting.’ During these baitings, males may even bite and severely injure a female.” Human males, maybe don’t take note.

    Edit: I see Tracy beat me to it.

  213. So basically it is a case of male dominance is bad but female dominance is good.

  214. @peterike
    I wonder how Ms. Wu’s dating life is going?

    Well enough. She's not gorgeous by any means, but she's thin and in the upper half for Chinese girls looks (which are, generally, vastly over stated).

    More importantly, she is in the PhD program at Harvard, and is yet another Chinese woman turned into a flaming SJW. Peterike's Law in full effect.

    https://static.projects.iq.harvard.edu/files/styles/os_files_xxlarge/public/marchforscience/files/headshot.png

    and in the upper half for Chinese girls looks (which are, generally, vastly over stated).

    I used to have a lower opinion of Chinese girls, too, until I traveled more in Asia. This particular one is definitely not doing so well, sporting, as she does:

    *crossed eyes
    *acne
    *asymmetrical face
    *bulbous, suspiciously central-Asian-looking nose
    *oversized jaw
    *small eyes
    *thin lips

    Virtually the only things she really has going for her are pretty decent teeth and reasonably longish neck.

    In the past, if you had asked me, I would have rated Chinese girls very low, below Thais. Since traveling more in Asia, my opinion has changed quite a bit. Chinese, Koreans, and Mongolians are very under-appreciated in the US, while Japanese, Filipinos, and SE Asians are over-rated. Our impressions of East Asians are affected by the relative lack of affluence in NE Asia over the last few decades.

    • Replies: @Chrisnonymous
    To clarify, I mean lack of affluence compared to the US/Europe, not SE Asia. When I see SE Asians and Japanese getting exposed to more affluence, I see wider girls who lose their girlish appeal, while when I see NE Asians exposed to more affluence, I see taller, more voluptuous girls who increase their appeal. I recognize that many Chinese girls in the US are not very good-looking. I don't really have a good explanation for that, but it is definitely the case that the 6-8 range is extended in the PRC relative to the US.
    , @Chrisnonymous
    After reviewing her Twitter feed, I take back the comment about her nose. Only.
  215. @Chrisnonymous

    and in the upper half for Chinese girls looks (which are, generally, vastly over stated).
     
    I used to have a lower opinion of Chinese girls, too, until I traveled more in Asia. This particular one is definitely not doing so well, sporting, as she does:

    *crossed eyes
    *acne
    *asymmetrical face
    *bulbous, suspiciously central-Asian-looking nose
    *oversized jaw
    *small eyes
    *thin lips

    Virtually the only things she really has going for her are pretty decent teeth and reasonably longish neck.

    In the past, if you had asked me, I would have rated Chinese girls very low, below Thais. Since traveling more in Asia, my opinion has changed quite a bit. Chinese, Koreans, and Mongolians are very under-appreciated in the US, while Japanese, Filipinos, and SE Asians are over-rated. Our impressions of East Asians are affected by the relative lack of affluence in NE Asia over the last few decades.

    To clarify, I mean lack of affluence compared to the US/Europe, not SE Asia. When I see SE Asians and Japanese getting exposed to more affluence, I see wider girls who lose their girlish appeal, while when I see NE Asians exposed to more affluence, I see taller, more voluptuous girls who increase their appeal. I recognize that many Chinese girls in the US are not very good-looking. I don’t really have a good explanation for that, but it is definitely the case that the 6-8 range is extended in the PRC relative to the US.

  216. @Chrisnonymous

    and in the upper half for Chinese girls looks (which are, generally, vastly over stated).
     
    I used to have a lower opinion of Chinese girls, too, until I traveled more in Asia. This particular one is definitely not doing so well, sporting, as she does:

    *crossed eyes
    *acne
    *asymmetrical face
    *bulbous, suspiciously central-Asian-looking nose
    *oversized jaw
    *small eyes
    *thin lips

    Virtually the only things she really has going for her are pretty decent teeth and reasonably longish neck.

    In the past, if you had asked me, I would have rated Chinese girls very low, below Thais. Since traveling more in Asia, my opinion has changed quite a bit. Chinese, Koreans, and Mongolians are very under-appreciated in the US, while Japanese, Filipinos, and SE Asians are over-rated. Our impressions of East Asians are affected by the relative lack of affluence in NE Asia over the last few decades.

    After reviewing her Twitter feed, I take back the comment about her nose. Only.

  217. Much like with cats and dogs, it’s kind of cute when feminists think that they are people.

  218. @Scott66
    Nope - Law is definition, pure memorization. Mix that with some theatrical skills and you have your best lawyers. Picture a great lawyer and then a great mathematician. Do they look the same to you? I understand that the current view of what makes someone smart is the ability to memorize and regurgitate, but this is not the same as logic.

    Hey, Scott, just for poop and grins, have you memorized the answers to these questions, or would you just use superiour acting skills to answer them? Do tell.

    LSAT Logic Games: Sample Questions

    Jason enters six races: biking, canoeing, horseback riding, ice skating, running, and swimming. He places between first and fifth in each. Two places are consecutive only if the place numbers are consecutive. Jason’s places in canoeing and running are consecutive. His places in ice skating and swimming are consecutive. He places higher in biking than in horseback riding. He places higher in canoeing than in running.

    1. If Jason places higher in running than in biking and places higher in biking than in ice skating and swimming, which one of the following allows all six of his race rankings to be determined?

    A. He places fourth in horseback riding.
    B. He places fourth in ice skating.
    C. He places the same in both horseback riding and ice skating.
    D. He places the same in both horseback riding and swimming.
    E. He places higher in horseback riding than in swimming.

    2. If Jason places higher in running than in biking and places higher in horseback riding than in ice skating, exactly how many of his rankings can be determined?

    A. 2
    B. 3
    C. 4
    D. 5
    E. 6

    3. Assume that Jason’s rank in running is higher than his rank in ice skating and consecutive with it, and that his rankings in swimming and running differ. Which one of the following must be true?

    A. Jason places both first and second.
    B. Jason places both first and third.
    C. Jason places both second and fourth.
    D. Jason places both second and fifth.
    E. Jason places both fourth and fifth.

    Historians frequently argue that an outlet for population overflow is required for a country’s economy to prosper. But we need look no further than our own shores to find counter-evidence: Cuba has long been able to rid itself of its surplus population by sending people here, and yet its economy has done quite poorly.

    The reasoning above is most vulnerable to which one of the following criticisms?

    A. It mistakenly interprets the historians to be claiming that a factor that guarantees, rather than is necessary for, a result.
    B. It relies on evidence that merely restates the argument’s conclusion.
    C. It uses an analogy that ignores an important distinction between the things being compared.
    D. It attacks a view by calling into question the character of the supporters of that view.
    E. It presents an argument without offering any evidence in support.

  219. @Rosie

    No woman who remembers Jr. High wants a society dominated by females.
     
    Au contraire, I remember junior high very well. The relentless sexual harassment was so brutal that I went to a high school with no boys. That's part of the problem with telling boys they are better and smarter than girls. When the mush more complicated reality slaps them in the face, they lash out with a furious compulsion to humiliate and destroy any girl who stands out for her intelligence.

    I’m sure the boys that you didn’t go to jr high with are deeply grateful. Would you consider going to a blog with no boys?

    • Replies: @Rosie

    I’m sure the boys that you didn’t go to jr high with are deeply grateful. Would you consider going to a blog with no boys?
     
    No, but if you'd like to go to a blog with no girls, I'll make a suggestion.

    https://dailystormer.name/
  220. @Rosie

    No woman who remembers Jr. High wants a society dominated by females.
     
    Au contraire, I remember junior high very well. The relentless sexual harassment was so brutal that I went to a high school with no boys. That's part of the problem with telling boys they are better and smarter than girls. When the mush more complicated reality slaps them in the face, they lash out with a furious compulsion to humiliate and destroy any girl who stands out for her intelligence.

    Not at my Jr. High. The most evil people were girls who would be B-list anywhere else. They weren’t athletic enough to be cheerleaders, let alone to do a competitive sport, so they joined the Pep Club and went around telling everybody else they should show more School Spirit. They were the first ones to rat out the smokers to the administration. They were natural Hall Monitors, and teachers and Scout Leaders praised them for how “mature” and “responsible” they were. They weren’t pretty enough to be on Prom Court, so they got on Prom Committee so they could bully everyone who showed up. If you didn’t show up because you were outside with the other stoners in the cul-de-sac, hoping your parents wouldn’t notice your red eyes or the ash burns on your gown when they came to pick you up, they pounced on you the next school day, doing their own rendition of “Popular” from Wicked.

    By High School, they had lost all power. They took over yearbook and the school paper in an effort to control our reputations in perpetuity, but only because nobody else cared enough to do it. They weren’t ugly enough to be teased and become rebels like Janis Joplin, so they suckered Beta males (who couldn’t get anyone better but didn’t want to be mistaken for gay and beaten up) into taking them to all school functions, and if the Beta was lucky, he escaped to college and didn’t have to marry the Hall Monitor.

    I googled one to see what had become of her, and she’s an elementary school teacher. One of her students commented, on a posted math assignment, that he was a little confused Ms. So-and-So was so insistent about their using a particular procedure rather than working the problem the most efficient way, but he wisely stated that she was trying to teach them “how to think.” The tradition continues: no Gausses in her class!

  221. @Brutusale
    Women talking to other women about other women is gossip.

    Men talking to other men about sports is not gossip.

    A 35-year career of having to make small talk with both men and women in professional situations has given me a pretty good idea about what they want to talk about.

    That it was a self-survey done by emasculated Brits who've coughed up the Sceptered Isle to the barbarian hasn't sunk in yet, huh? If we were a nation with a long history of Page Three Girls and the lurid popular press, we too might be nattering chicks like the guys in Britain.

    Women talking to other women about other women is gossip.

    Well, I suppose if you’re going to define gossip as something only women do, then you can say only women gossip.

    That it was a self-survey done by emasculated Brits who’ve coughed up the Sceptered Isle to the barbarian hasn’t sunk in yet, huh?

    I would think the fact that it was a self-survey would tend to bolster it’s credibility.

    • Replies: @res

    Well, I suppose if you’re going to define gossip as something only women do, then you can say only women gossip.
     
    Do you really not understand the difference between talking about other people (whom you know socially) and talking about sports, hobbies, etc.? Women "gossiping" has both positive and negative aspects, but please don't pretend it does not happen disproportionately.
  222. res says:
    @Rosie

    Women talking to other women about other women is gossip.
     
    Well, I suppose if you're going to define gossip as something only women do, then you can say only women gossip.

    That it was a self-survey done by emasculated Brits who’ve coughed up the Sceptered Isle to the barbarian hasn’t sunk in yet, huh?
     
    I would think the fact that it was a self-survey would tend to bolster it's credibility.

    Well, I suppose if you’re going to define gossip as something only women do, then you can say only women gossip.

    Do you really not understand the difference between talking about other people (whom you know socially) and talking about sports, hobbies, etc.? Women “gossiping” has both positive and negative aspects, but please don’t pretend it does not happen disproportionately.

    • Replies: @Rosie

    Do you really not understand the difference between talking about other people (whom you know socially) and talking about sports, hobbies, etc.
     
    Yes, of course I understand.

    Women “gossiping” has both positive and negative aspects, but please don’t pretend it does not happen disproportionately.
     
    I'm not pretending. I'm not convinced that women gossip anymore than men do.

    Why do you believe that women gossip more than men? I'm asking sincerely. Please understand, talking trash about another women in casual company is considered very bad form. When you do this, you are announcing that you are not to be trusted. Now, if you are talking to your BFF, that is another matter, but if all you do is run other women down, you're not going to have a BFF.

    If you say that women gossip more based on your personal observations, then I'll take your word for it, but my observations are not the same.

  223. @MBlanc46
    I’m sure the boys that you didn’t go to jr high with are deeply grateful. Would you consider going to a blog with no boys?

    I’m sure the boys that you didn’t go to jr high with are deeply grateful. Would you consider going to a blog with no boys?

    No, but if you’d like to go to a blog with no girls, I’ll make a suggestion.

    https://dailystormer.name/

    • Replies: @MBlanc46
    I’m happy enough to have girls around, just as long as they’re not the finger-wagging schoolmarmish sort.
  224. @res

    Well, I suppose if you’re going to define gossip as something only women do, then you can say only women gossip.
     
    Do you really not understand the difference between talking about other people (whom you know socially) and talking about sports, hobbies, etc.? Women "gossiping" has both positive and negative aspects, but please don't pretend it does not happen disproportionately.

    Do you really not understand the difference between talking about other people (whom you know socially) and talking about sports, hobbies, etc.

    Yes, of course I understand.

    Women “gossiping” has both positive and negative aspects, but please don’t pretend it does not happen disproportionately.

    I’m not pretending. I’m not convinced that women gossip anymore than men do.

    Why do you believe that women gossip more than men? I’m asking sincerely. Please understand, talking trash about another women in casual company is considered very bad form. When you do this, you are announcing that you are not to be trusted. Now, if you are talking to your BFF, that is another matter, but if all you do is run other women down, you’re not going to have a BFF.

    If you say that women gossip more based on your personal observations, then I’ll take your word for it, but my observations are not the same.

    • Replies: @Rosie
    In fairness, I will say that I have never had a guy friend come to me at wit's end wanting to talk about so-and-so. I think that is what you mean by "gossip," and that certainly is more typical of women.

    OTOH, my impression is that vicious ridicule behind someone's back is something that men are more likely to engage in. I'm not meaning to accuse here, I'm just thinking out loud.
    , @res

    Why do you believe that women gossip more than men?
     
    Listening to what groups of men and women talk about when they get together. I am not necessarily meaning "talking trash", just that among women there is much more talk of people, their actions, and interrelationships.

    Here is a paper looking at conversational topics by sex: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/30846361_Gender_Differences_in_Conversation_Topics_1922-1990

    Looking at Table II, in the most recent study (Moore 1992) we see women talking about people & relationships two thirds of the time, men less than one quarter.

    Please understand, talking trash about another women in casual company is considered very bad form.
     
    Which of course means nobody ever does it. /sarc

    Worth noting that in the paper above (Table I) the big difference is in how often men and women talk about the opposite sex, not the same sex.

    OTOH, my impression is that vicious ridicule behind someone’s back is something that men are more likely to engage in.
     
    I honestly don't know about this, but I will note that you often seem more negative about men than (at least some of) the people you are criticizing here seem about women. You might ponder whether you are being part of the problem or part of a solution.
  225. @Rosie

    Do you really not understand the difference between talking about other people (whom you know socially) and talking about sports, hobbies, etc.
     
    Yes, of course I understand.

    Women “gossiping” has both positive and negative aspects, but please don’t pretend it does not happen disproportionately.
     
    I'm not pretending. I'm not convinced that women gossip anymore than men do.

    Why do you believe that women gossip more than men? I'm asking sincerely. Please understand, talking trash about another women in casual company is considered very bad form. When you do this, you are announcing that you are not to be trusted. Now, if you are talking to your BFF, that is another matter, but if all you do is run other women down, you're not going to have a BFF.

    If you say that women gossip more based on your personal observations, then I'll take your word for it, but my observations are not the same.

    In fairness, I will say that I have never had a guy friend come to me at wit’s end wanting to talk about so-and-so. I think that is what you mean by “gossip,” and that certainly is more typical of women.

    OTOH, my impression is that vicious ridicule behind someone’s back is something that men are more likely to engage in. I’m not meaning to accuse here, I’m just thinking out loud.

  226. Anonymous[170] • Disclaimer says:

    Any guy who happened to be the biggest kid in his school will know all about male gossip. Other guys won’t challenge you but will start nasty rumors about you behind your back. That’s how women usually deal with rivals, but men do it too in these situations.

  227. @Rosie

    Do you really not understand the difference between talking about other people (whom you know socially) and talking about sports, hobbies, etc.
     
    Yes, of course I understand.

    Women “gossiping” has both positive and negative aspects, but please don’t pretend it does not happen disproportionately.
     
    I'm not pretending. I'm not convinced that women gossip anymore than men do.

    Why do you believe that women gossip more than men? I'm asking sincerely. Please understand, talking trash about another women in casual company is considered very bad form. When you do this, you are announcing that you are not to be trusted. Now, if you are talking to your BFF, that is another matter, but if all you do is run other women down, you're not going to have a BFF.

    If you say that women gossip more based on your personal observations, then I'll take your word for it, but my observations are not the same.

    Why do you believe that women gossip more than men?

    Listening to what groups of men and women talk about when they get together. I am not necessarily meaning “talking trash”, just that among women there is much more talk of people, their actions, and interrelationships.

    Here is a paper looking at conversational topics by sex: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/30846361_Gender_Differences_in_Conversation_Topics_1922-1990

    Looking at Table II, in the most recent study (Moore 1992) we see women talking about people & relationships two thirds of the time, men less than one quarter.

    Please understand, talking trash about another women in casual company is considered very bad form.

    Which of course means nobody ever does it. /sarc

    Worth noting that in the paper above (Table I) the big difference is in how often men and women talk about the opposite sex, not the same sex.

    OTOH, my impression is that vicious ridicule behind someone’s back is something that men are more likely to engage in.

    I honestly don’t know about this, but I will note that you often seem more negative about men than (at least some of) the people you are criticizing here seem about women. You might ponder whether you are being part of the problem or part of a solution.

    • Replies: @Rosie

    Listening to what groups of men and women talk about when they get together. I am not necessarily meaning “talking trash”, just that among women there is much more talk of people, their actions, and interrelationships.
     
    Fair enough.

    Which of course means nobody ever does it. /sarc
     
    We do it, but not very often.

    Worth noting that in the paper above (Table I) the big difference is in how often men and women talk about the opposite sex, not the same sex.
     
    Well, that's another matter entirely. Yes, of course, we talk about the opposite sex all the time, but that's not what I understood by the term "gossip."

    You might ponder whether you are being part of the problem or part of a solution.
     
    I'll keep that in mind.
  228. @res

    Why do you believe that women gossip more than men?
     
    Listening to what groups of men and women talk about when they get together. I am not necessarily meaning "talking trash", just that among women there is much more talk of people, their actions, and interrelationships.

    Here is a paper looking at conversational topics by sex: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/30846361_Gender_Differences_in_Conversation_Topics_1922-1990

    Looking at Table II, in the most recent study (Moore 1992) we see women talking about people & relationships two thirds of the time, men less than one quarter.

    Please understand, talking trash about another women in casual company is considered very bad form.
     
    Which of course means nobody ever does it. /sarc

    Worth noting that in the paper above (Table I) the big difference is in how often men and women talk about the opposite sex, not the same sex.

    OTOH, my impression is that vicious ridicule behind someone’s back is something that men are more likely to engage in.
     
    I honestly don't know about this, but I will note that you often seem more negative about men than (at least some of) the people you are criticizing here seem about women. You might ponder whether you are being part of the problem or part of a solution.

    Listening to what groups of men and women talk about when they get together. I am not necessarily meaning “talking trash”, just that among women there is much more talk of people, their actions, and interrelationships.

    Fair enough.

    Which of course means nobody ever does it. /sarc

    We do it, but not very often.

    Worth noting that in the paper above (Table I) the big difference is in how often men and women talk about the opposite sex, not the same sex.

    Well, that’s another matter entirely. Yes, of course, we talk about the opposite sex all the time, but that’s not what I understood by the term “gossip.”

    You might ponder whether you are being part of the problem or part of a solution.

    I’ll keep that in mind.

    • Replies: @res

    We do it, but not very often.
     
    Worth thinking about what you are comparing with in that sentence. My guess is your reference is how much "we" do it rather than have more benign conversations about people. Not vs. how often men do it. And men have their own ways of being vicious of course.

    Well, that’s another matter entirely. Yes, of course, we talk about the opposite sex all the time, but that’s not what I understood by the term “gossip.”
     
    This tends to be the crux of male-female "gossip" conversations. There is a negative connotation to the word and as I noted earlier there are both positive and negative aspects to the women talking more about people and relationships phenomenon.

    Based on other conversations of this sort, my speculation is women get a great deal of conditioning against "gossiping" (in the backbiting sense, as you alluded to) so the word tends to trigger a reaction that prevents talking about the very real differences in conversational style and topics.

    I’ll keep that in mind.
     
    Thanks. A good thing for me to keep in mind about myself as well ; )

    P.S. Thanks for responding thoughtfully. On rereading, my comment was a bit crankier than intended.
  229. res says:
    @Rosie

    Listening to what groups of men and women talk about when they get together. I am not necessarily meaning “talking trash”, just that among women there is much more talk of people, their actions, and interrelationships.
     
    Fair enough.

    Which of course means nobody ever does it. /sarc
     
    We do it, but not very often.

    Worth noting that in the paper above (Table I) the big difference is in how often men and women talk about the opposite sex, not the same sex.
     
    Well, that's another matter entirely. Yes, of course, we talk about the opposite sex all the time, but that's not what I understood by the term "gossip."

    You might ponder whether you are being part of the problem or part of a solution.
     
    I'll keep that in mind.

    We do it, but not very often.

    Worth thinking about what you are comparing with in that sentence. My guess is your reference is how much “we” do it rather than have more benign conversations about people. Not vs. how often men do it. And men have their own ways of being vicious of course.

    Well, that’s another matter entirely. Yes, of course, we talk about the opposite sex all the time, but that’s not what I understood by the term “gossip.”

    This tends to be the crux of male-female “gossip” conversations. There is a negative connotation to the word and as I noted earlier there are both positive and negative aspects to the women talking more about people and relationships phenomenon.

    Based on other conversations of this sort, my speculation is women get a great deal of conditioning against “gossiping” (in the backbiting sense, as you alluded to) so the word tends to trigger a reaction that prevents talking about the very real differences in conversational style and topics.

    I’ll keep that in mind.

    Thanks. A good thing for me to keep in mind about myself as well ; )

    P.S. Thanks for responding thoughtfully. On rereading, my comment was a bit crankier than intended.

  230. @Rosie

    I’m sure the boys that you didn’t go to jr high with are deeply grateful. Would you consider going to a blog with no boys?
     
    No, but if you'd like to go to a blog with no girls, I'll make a suggestion.

    https://dailystormer.name/

    I’m happy enough to have girls around, just as long as they’re not the finger-wagging schoolmarmish sort.

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