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Urinal Mania 2017 Comes to USS Gerald R. Ford
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Now that’s projection

When I was a kid, I was very impressed with the advertising tagline of the Strategic Air Command, which was something like: “Projecting American air supremacy globally.” Similarly, the idea that the U.S. Navy could project giant aircraft carriers into enemy oceans and then project fighter jets over enemy lands was equally exciting.

Boys like everything about projecting (in the physical sense, rather than that useful Freudian sense of “projection”). That’s why many (male) toddlers will immediately pick up a stick as soon as they step outdoors and brandish it about like the winning Killer Ape in 2001.

The latest Navy supercarrier, the USS Gerald R. Ford, launched its first jet this week, in another demonstration of the Pentagon’s ability to project power globally. But the Ford’s seamen are not to project so much lavatorily.

But while urinals are being installed in the Ladies Rooms of luxury resorts, urinals are not being installed in the latest American aircraft carrier. From Business Insider:

The Navy’s newest, most sophisticated aircraft carrier doesn’t have urinals

Amid all its upgrades and advances, the US Navy’s newest aircraft carrier, the USS Gerald R. Ford, is lacking one feature: urinals.

Every bathroom on the Ford is, for the first time, gender-neutral, equipped with flush toilets and stalls, according to Navy Times.

Bathroom-design experts have said sit-down toilets are less sanitary and take up more space, and most of the Ford’s crew members are men. (Women are only about 18% of the Navy.)

 
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  1. syonredux says:

    A stall man, huh? (Seinfeld Season 3, Episode 1- The Note)

    Read More
    • Replies: @MEH 0910
    Seinfeld: Bathroom Stalls

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7zwswEVDAlU
    , @Pat Boyle
    The real life Joe DiMaggio indeed carried with him dignity and authority. I lived on Russian Hill in San Francisco. This hill looms over the area called North Beach. This area is filed with Italian restaurants and delicatessens.

    I was at a local bank that had a terrible traffic jam that kept anyone from getting in or out of the lot. But the some guy walked forward and started directing traffic. This guy had 'presence'. Everyone just obeyed him. It was Joe DiMaggio.

    Soon the traffic snarl dissipated and we realized that we had experienced a visitation. Joe was a take charge guy.

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  2. Osten says:

    No urinal. Use fantail.
    More DoD idiocy.
    Recruiting numbers will fall.
    Enemies use urinals.

    Read More
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  3. MEH 0910 says:
    @syonredux
    A stall man, huh? (Seinfeld Season 3, Episode 1- The Note)


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IpFXzKPt354

    Seinfeld: Bathroom Stalls

    Read More
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  4. Actually, Steve, according to this:

    https://infogalactic.com/info/USS_Gerald_R._Ford

    which refers to: http://www.navy.mil/submit/display.asp?story_id=101711

    On July 28, 2017, the USS Gerald R. Ford achieved its first arrested landing and launched its first aircraft via the new electromagnetic launch system (EMALS).

    With respect to women making up 18% of the navy, they also get pregnant when danger or boredom presents as well.

    Read More
    • LOL: Romanian
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  5. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer

    I was just going to say, if you have a penis you don’t need a urinal on a ship, that’s what the ocean is for.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Father O'Hara
    That's also what the mess hall is for. But, humor aside, Obama lost. I thought we could cut back on some of the Looney tunes stuff.
    , @Bard of Bumperstickers
    Man-parts overboard!
    , @TheJester
    No more urinals on new Navy ships to make women feel more at home. What's next? Tampon dispensers strategically placed throughout the ships? Breast feeding pods, anyone?

    I was humored to read the Internet short about 36 women (10% of the women on the ship) being replaced aboard a Navy ship on deployment in the Middle East due to pregnancy. Back to the home port and shore duty for these ladies, secure in the knowledge that the Navy offers liberal maternity leave and a wide-range of government-paid daycare options. Under the latest policy, they are also protected from redeployment for up to a year after giving birth.


    Thirty-six crew members of the supply ship Acadia were pregnant and had to be transferred during the ship's deployment to the Persian Gulf, naval officials say.

    More than half became pregnant after the ship was under way, but a Navy spokesman, Lieut. Comdr. Jeff Smallwood, said there were no indications of improper fraternization between men and women on the ship.

    "These women have a right to get pregnant," Commander Smallwood said. "The conclusion somebody is jumping to is that the Acadia is a love boat, and that's not the case."
     

    http://www.nytimes.com/1991/04/30/us/36-women-pregnant-aboard-a-navy-ship-that-served-in-gulf.html

    But this one is the best. In 2016, a female sailor gave birth on the aircraft carrier, USS Dwight D. Eisenhower, deployed to the Middle East. Note the official statement about the main focus for the U.S. Navy, the ship, and its crew.


    “As the baby was born at sea aboard an operational unit, the main focus for the U.S. Navy, the ship, and its crew is the safety and well-being of the baby and the mother,” Cmdr. Bill Urban, U.S. Naval Forces Central Command spokesman, told The Virginian-Pilot. “The baby and mother have arrived in Bahrain via helicopter with a medical escort and have been taken to a shore-based hospital for follow on care.”

    An incubator, diapers, and formula were flown out to the carrier following the baby’s birth, which was not immediately clear, reports said. The incubator was used to transport the baby during the medical evacuation.
     

    http://www.foxnews.com/health/2016/09/12/us-navy-sailor-gives-birth-on-aircraft-carrier-after-complaining-stomach-pains.html

    As one commenter on the Unz review related, once the number of women in an organization reaches critical mass, the primary mission of the organization changes to one of accommodating female emotions and their unique, gender-based needs. It is heartening to see the U.S. Navy providing thought leadership in this new, critical area of military preparedness.

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  6. At this point I don’t think it matters much. The US Navy will be used in stupid, pointless neocon wars anyway. The less efficient it is, the better.

    Read More
    • Agree: Stephen R. Diamond
    • Replies: @dfordoom

    At this point I don’t think it matters much. The US Navy will be used in stupid, pointless neocon wars anyway. The less efficient it is, the better.
     
    Yep.
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  7. Luke Lea says:

    Stalls will be handy for illicit sexual encounters.

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  8. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer

    Just go Turkish. Squat toilets are cleaner and a more efficient use of limited shipboard space.

    Or go Star Trek. No toilets anywhere for anyone.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Mr. Anon

    Or go Star Trek. No toilets anywhere for anyone.
     
    Maybe they just pissed into the transporters and beamed it out into space.
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  9. Alfa158 says:

    How many carriers can the Navy need anyway? They are useful for fighting low level wars against enemies with limited ability to project their own power back out to sea, like Afghans, Libyans, Panamanians etc. but it would be be suicidal sending them in against high capability forces like the Russians or Chinese who have plenty of stealthy attack subs and supersonic anti-shipping missiles.
    It seems that for the low level wars the Navy shouldn’t need more than a handful of these white elephants in commission at a time.
    Maybe it’s just my residual hostility to the Navy since they used to mock the AF. I find it is poetic justice that they used to mock us by saying “Flare to land, squat to pee!”. Who’s squatting now Squids?
    BTW, I was in SAC and the patch read “Peace is our Profession”. Privately we all thought it should have been “Nuke ‘em ’til they glow in the dark”.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Pat Boyle
    Alfa158 - I like the cut of your jib.
    , @Altai
    They need so many because performing a refit in dock takes an age. So to ensure there are 3 or 4 active at any time to patrol and be ready to be called up. If it would help trigger you, think about the additional 11 helicopter carrier fleet that is also being one to one replaced by a new class.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tarawa-class_amphibious_assault_ship
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/America-class_amphibious_assault_ship

    There is paradoxically a bit of a supercarrier boom going on across the world despite them becoming more and more obsolete and at risk as you mentioned from new anti-carrier missiles and defence spending becoming more rationalised. Be interesting what the reaction will be when the first one goes down to one of those hypersonic missiles. Maybe the Russians and Chinese will have the last laugh with their heavy investment in subs.
    , @JerryC
    I believe the postscript to the SAC motto was "War Is Just A Hobby".
    , @Dave Pinsen
    Per Wikipedia, we have 11 aircraft carriers in service. The country with the next-highest number of aircraft carriers in service is Italy, with 2: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_aircraft_carriers_by_country

    And Italy's bigger carrier is about a fifth the size of the USS Gerald Ford and cost about a tenth as much: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italian_aircraft_carrier_Cavour

    For the cost of one aircraft carrier, Trump could have a beautiful wall on the southern border.
    , @Jim Don Bob
    Thank you for your service to our country.
    , @ATX Hipster
    Steve Hsu recently wrote a blog post on the coming obsolescence of our carriers, and the implications for US force projection in the Pacific: http://infoproc.blogspot.com/2017/07/machine-intelligence-threatens.html

    The gist is: missile systems, developed by China and Russia, against which our carriers can't defend will become cheap enough over the next decade that even smaller nations will be able to afford them.

    Actually, Hsu predicts $10mm price tags on these missiles, which would put them in reach of well-heeled non-state actors such as Hezbollah.
    , @Autochthon
    Your ignorance about naval warfare is epic in scope.
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  10. @Anonymous
    I was just going to say, if you have a penis you don't need a urinal on a ship, that's what the ocean is for.

    That’s also what the mess hall is for. But, humor aside, Obama lost. I thought we could cut back on some of the Looney tunes stuff.

    Read More
    • Replies: @bomag

    But, humor aside, Obama lost. I thought we could cut back on some of the Looney tunes stuff.
     
    I suppose it is the momentum.
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  11. Dr. X says:

    Ah, yes… U.S. Navy personnel are too incompetent to avoid colliding with Philippine cargo ships despite having the most sophisticated navigation equipment (and the biggest defense budget) in the history of the planet… and the brass are busy building warships without urinals.

    Glad to see they’ve got their priorities straight, eh? A snapshot of post-America, 2017.

    http://www.cnn.com/2017/07/21/politics/fitzgerald-initial-investigation-blames-navy/index.html

    Read More
    • Replies: @oddsbodkins
    Nothing new. The US Navy has been colliding with things for decades.
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  12. kihowi says:

    Strategic Air Command is also a very cool movie with Jimmy Stewart and about the most painful comparison to whatever this is.

    He is a successful baseball player who gives up is career to serve in the air force, all the time with his beautiful, graceful, loyal wife (played by that redhead whose name I forgot) by his side. Most of the movie is grown men, serious men, working hard together to solve problems for the the defense of their country. Good lord.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Dan Hayes
    kihowi:

    The movie you referred to had certain parallels with Stewart's life.

    Jimmy Stewart entered WWII as an Air Force private and retired as a general. His son died in service in Vietnam after volunteering. In later years Stewart said he could never forgive the war resistance movement after the wartime sacrifice of his son.

    , @Lurker
    And worse yet I doubt toilets were mentioned anywhere in the movie.
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  13. Clyde says:

    In the old baseball parks you would piss against a long piece of communal sheet metal sloppily installed against a wall. I found it a bit scary as a nine year old surrounded by old guys whipping it out, but my urgent need to piss overcame this.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Barnard
    They had a trough like that in the Metrodome in Minneapolis up until it was torn down. It certainly was efficient at moving sports fans through the men's room.
    , @ben tillman

    In the old baseball parks you would piss against a long piece of communal sheet metal sloppily installed against a wall.
     
    That sounds a lot like Franklin Field in the 1970's. When I got to first grade, the school had trough urinals. No problem. But Franklin Field had a wall you peed on, and it trickled down to a little channel slightly below floor level.
    , @Dr. X

    In the old baseball parks you would piss against a long piece of communal sheet metal sloppily installed against a wall.
     
    I recall a college bar that had a long trough on the wall for a urinal. They filled it with ice at the beginning of every night, and it was melted by last call.
    , @Brutusale
    The troughs at Fenway Park were always a part of boys becoming men in Boston. They enhanced throughput also cut back on drunk patrons urinating in the sinks, as was common at the old Boston Garden.
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  14. eD says:

    I probably should keep quiet, but in the grand scheme of things this is about as important as a uniform redesign that would have the guards at Buckingham Palace stick feathers into their hats. On the other hand, something like that would certainly be noticed and commented on.

    Read More
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  15. utu says:

    They will have install cameras to enforce sit-downing by sailors on the sit-down toilets.

    Read More
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  16. Pat Boyle says:
    @syonredux
    A stall man, huh? (Seinfeld Season 3, Episode 1- The Note)


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IpFXzKPt354

    The real life Joe DiMaggio indeed carried with him dignity and authority. I lived on Russian Hill in San Francisco. This hill looms over the area called North Beach. This area is filed with Italian restaurants and delicatessens.

    I was at a local bank that had a terrible traffic jam that kept anyone from getting in or out of the lot. But the some guy walked forward and started directing traffic. This guy had ‘presence’. Everyone just obeyed him. It was Joe DiMaggio.

    Soon the traffic snarl dissipated and we realized that we had experienced a visitation. Joe was a take charge guy.

    Read More
    • Replies: @BenKenobi
    Synchronicity in the thread!

    Isn't Joe DiMaggio the guy Kramer saw dunking a donut is his coffee? In a Dunkin' Donuts no less?

    (Also: 18% too many.)
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  17. Peterike says:

    So now we need “bathroom design experts” to tell us that stalls take up more room then urinals.

    Read More
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  18. Dan Hayes says:
    @kihowi
    Strategic Air Command is also a very cool movie with Jimmy Stewart and about the most painful comparison to whatever this is.

    He is a successful baseball player who gives up is career to serve in the air force, all the time with his beautiful, graceful, loyal wife (played by that redhead whose name I forgot) by his side. Most of the movie is grown men, serious men, working hard together to solve problems for the the defense of their country. Good lord.

    kihowi:

    The movie you referred to had certain parallels with Stewart’s life.

    Jimmy Stewart entered WWII as an Air Force private and retired as a general. His son died in service in Vietnam after volunteering. In later years Stewart said he could never forgive the war resistance movement after the wartime sacrifice of his son.

    Read More
    • Replies: @ben tillman

    Jimmy Stewart entered WWII as an Air Force private and retired as a general. His son died in service in Vietnam after volunteering. In later years Stewart said he could never forgive the war resistance movement after the wartime sacrifice of his son.
     
    Forgive them for what? Trying to save the lives of people like his son?
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  19. Pat Boyle says:
    @Alfa158
    How many carriers can the Navy need anyway? They are useful for fighting low level wars against enemies with limited ability to project their own power back out to sea, like Afghans, Libyans, Panamanians etc. but it would be be suicidal sending them in against high capability forces like the Russians or Chinese who have plenty of stealthy attack subs and supersonic anti-shipping missiles.
    It seems that for the low level wars the Navy shouldn't need more than a handful of these white elephants in commission at a time.
    Maybe it's just my residual hostility to the Navy since they used to mock the AF. I find it is poetic justice that they used to mock us by saying "Flare to land, squat to pee!". Who's squatting now Squids?
    BTW, I was in SAC and the patch read "Peace is our Profession". Privately we all thought it should have been "Nuke 'em 'til they glow in the dark".

    Alfa158 – I like the cut of your jib.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Alfa158
    Aar! Avast there matey, belay that salty lingo! I be a lubber, splice me wi' a marlin spike, else!
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  20. Altai says:
    @Alfa158
    How many carriers can the Navy need anyway? They are useful for fighting low level wars against enemies with limited ability to project their own power back out to sea, like Afghans, Libyans, Panamanians etc. but it would be be suicidal sending them in against high capability forces like the Russians or Chinese who have plenty of stealthy attack subs and supersonic anti-shipping missiles.
    It seems that for the low level wars the Navy shouldn't need more than a handful of these white elephants in commission at a time.
    Maybe it's just my residual hostility to the Navy since they used to mock the AF. I find it is poetic justice that they used to mock us by saying "Flare to land, squat to pee!". Who's squatting now Squids?
    BTW, I was in SAC and the patch read "Peace is our Profession". Privately we all thought it should have been "Nuke 'em 'til they glow in the dark".

    They need so many because performing a refit in dock takes an age. So to ensure there are 3 or 4 active at any time to patrol and be ready to be called up. If it would help trigger you, think about the additional 11 helicopter carrier fleet that is also being one to one replaced by a new class.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tarawa-class_amphibious_assault_ship

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/America-class_amphibious_assault_ship

    There is paradoxically a bit of a supercarrier boom going on across the world despite them becoming more and more obsolete and at risk as you mentioned from new anti-carrier missiles and defence spending becoming more rationalised. Be interesting what the reaction will be when the first one goes down to one of those hypersonic missiles. Maybe the Russians and Chinese will have the last laugh with their heavy investment in subs.

    Read More
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  21. eD says:

    I did try to find out what went on with the history of toilets, to really see if removing urinals in favor of more st-down toilets would be a big deal.

    My honest suspicion was that removing the urinals in favor of Arab style toilets would have been a bigger deal, or going without toilets at all and having the sailors do their business in jars which would be thrown over the side of the ship. But the urinals themselves are nothing special.

    It turns out that there is a huge amount of cultural signalling that goes with this stuff.

    However, to the extent humans have had a standard, for what its worth its been the chamberpot, though without privacy and normally without some sort of flushing or plumbing system. The navy could probably get away with port-a-johns on the flight deck, with the refuse collected periodically and dumped into the sea. That is pretty much how the army handles the issue.

    But culturally signal away!

    Read More
    • Replies: @Dr. X

    It turns out that there is a huge amount of cultural signalling that goes with this stuff.
     
    Then maybe they can install a urinal as a work of art?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fountain_(Duchamp)
    , @Chrisnonymous
    They don't need port-a-potties, they can just go old-school with outhouse-style holes cut in a platform off the prow.

    Imagine taking a dump with an F-14 taking off inches above your head!
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  22. JerryC says:
    @Alfa158
    How many carriers can the Navy need anyway? They are useful for fighting low level wars against enemies with limited ability to project their own power back out to sea, like Afghans, Libyans, Panamanians etc. but it would be be suicidal sending them in against high capability forces like the Russians or Chinese who have plenty of stealthy attack subs and supersonic anti-shipping missiles.
    It seems that for the low level wars the Navy shouldn't need more than a handful of these white elephants in commission at a time.
    Maybe it's just my residual hostility to the Navy since they used to mock the AF. I find it is poetic justice that they used to mock us by saying "Flare to land, squat to pee!". Who's squatting now Squids?
    BTW, I was in SAC and the patch read "Peace is our Profession". Privately we all thought it should have been "Nuke 'em 'til they glow in the dark".

    I believe the postscript to the SAC motto was “War Is Just A Hobby”.

    Read More
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  23. Dave Pinsen says: • Website
    @Alfa158
    How many carriers can the Navy need anyway? They are useful for fighting low level wars against enemies with limited ability to project their own power back out to sea, like Afghans, Libyans, Panamanians etc. but it would be be suicidal sending them in against high capability forces like the Russians or Chinese who have plenty of stealthy attack subs and supersonic anti-shipping missiles.
    It seems that for the low level wars the Navy shouldn't need more than a handful of these white elephants in commission at a time.
    Maybe it's just my residual hostility to the Navy since they used to mock the AF. I find it is poetic justice that they used to mock us by saying "Flare to land, squat to pee!". Who's squatting now Squids?
    BTW, I was in SAC and the patch read "Peace is our Profession". Privately we all thought it should have been "Nuke 'em 'til they glow in the dark".

    Per Wikipedia, we have 11 aircraft carriers in service. The country with the next-highest number of aircraft carriers in service is Italy, with 2: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_aircraft_carriers_by_country

    And Italy’s bigger carrier is about a fifth the size of the USS Gerald Ford and cost about a tenth as much: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italian_aircraft_carrier_Cavour

    For the cost of one aircraft carrier, Trump could have a beautiful wall on the southern border.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Alfa158
    That gives me an idea: I wonder if Mexico might be interested in having their own flattop? We can offer to trade them one in exchange for them building the wall for us.
    , @dfordoom

    For the cost of one aircraft carrier, Trump could have a beautiful wall on the southern border.
     
    But that won't benefit the military-industrial complex so it won't happen. There's no way Trump will have the guts to confront the military-industrial complex.
    , @Steve Sailer
    Is the French Charles deGaulle carrier the only foreign carrier that is within 20 or 30% of the capacity of an American carrier?

    A decade ago I did some research and it looked like America had 80% of the world's carrier jet warplanes.
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  24. Barnard says:
    @Clyde
    In the old baseball parks you would piss against a long piece of communal sheet metal sloppily installed against a wall. I found it a bit scary as a nine year old surrounded by old guys whipping it out, but my urgent need to piss overcame this.

    They had a trough like that in the Metrodome in Minneapolis up until it was torn down. It certainly was efficient at moving sports fans through the men’s room.

    Read More
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  25. The nation’s hospitals don’t have many urinals either, or at least they do, but they are called urinal bottles and are a funny shape that is designed to fit between the legs of a man (or male denominated transgendered person) in bed with the neck of the bottle somewhat raised to accommodate the penis, but prevent the urine flowing out. Sometimes they work and sometimes they don’t.

    I once knew a poor fellow with severe brain damage, who for some reason had both his arms and legs amputated soon after birth and just lay flat on his back for the next forty years. For reasons of incontinence, the nurses would wedge a urinal bottle between his legs, however this had to be emptied frequently, because sometimes on the approach of an attractive nurse, nature would take its course and the bottle would spontaneously flip up and empty all over the patient without being touched by hand.

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  26. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer

    Navy website is slightly more patriotic under Trump than Obama. Stars & Stripes and the words United States and/or America appear on some pages.

    Army website is insulting much the same as under Obama. Last I checked there was one flag on a shoulder patch in a rotating photo and hardly any mention of USA. Creepy global police force vibe is still in effect on that website.

    Marines is a little better but not great and I haven’t been to Trump era Air Force site.

    Truth is that for a long time these sites have been globalist propaganda and not close to patriotic in tone. Sort of like the status quo persisting at NPR/PBS it seems like Trump era is not a new day.

    He’s watching TV every night. Don’t tell me doesn’t have the time. .

    Read More
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  27. @Alfa158
    How many carriers can the Navy need anyway? They are useful for fighting low level wars against enemies with limited ability to project their own power back out to sea, like Afghans, Libyans, Panamanians etc. but it would be be suicidal sending them in against high capability forces like the Russians or Chinese who have plenty of stealthy attack subs and supersonic anti-shipping missiles.
    It seems that for the low level wars the Navy shouldn't need more than a handful of these white elephants in commission at a time.
    Maybe it's just my residual hostility to the Navy since they used to mock the AF. I find it is poetic justice that they used to mock us by saying "Flare to land, squat to pee!". Who's squatting now Squids?
    BTW, I was in SAC and the patch read "Peace is our Profession". Privately we all thought it should have been "Nuke 'em 'til they glow in the dark".

    Thank you for your service to our country.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Alfa158
    You're welcome, but I was lucky and never got shot at. The only thing I sacrificed was a little income compared to being in a civilian job. For others, all gave some, some gave all. I'm mostly saddened that our country is being given away after all the real sacrifices.
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  28. BenKenobi says:
    @Pat Boyle
    The real life Joe DiMaggio indeed carried with him dignity and authority. I lived on Russian Hill in San Francisco. This hill looms over the area called North Beach. This area is filed with Italian restaurants and delicatessens.

    I was at a local bank that had a terrible traffic jam that kept anyone from getting in or out of the lot. But the some guy walked forward and started directing traffic. This guy had 'presence'. Everyone just obeyed him. It was Joe DiMaggio.

    Soon the traffic snarl dissipated and we realized that we had experienced a visitation. Joe was a take charge guy.

    Synchronicity in the thread!

    Isn’t Joe DiMaggio the guy Kramer saw dunking a donut is his coffee? In a Dunkin’ Donuts no less?

    (Also: 18% too many.)

    Read More
    • Replies: @guest
    Dinky Donuts, actually. I have no idea whether the show made that business up or not.

    I only remember that scene because of Kramer's yelps.
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  29. We can project our seamen anywhere in the world!

    BTW I just discovered that the new men’s rooms at my local beach are the same as on the new ship, no urinals. I think I’ll just pee in water from now on.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Chrisnonymous
    The US should retain its seamen rather than projecting them. By retaining seamen, the US can avoid losing its life force.
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  30. eD says:

    I did go to a military reform website and they have to articles on the “Gerald R Ford”:

    http://www.pogo.org/straus/issues/defense-budget/2017/how-not-to-build-a-ship-uss-ford.html

    http://www.pogo.org/straus/issues/military-industrial-circus/2017/the-letters-mia-are-in-mattis.html

    Granted, people have been arguing that aircraft carriers are obsolete since the 1980s. And these can’t be as bad as the new British carriers without airplanes.

    But it really sounds that they could be crewed completely by trans-gender Muslims from Afighanistan who have never seen the Ocean before, with no toilet facilities at all, and the embarrassment for US national security wouldn’t be worse than what is already happening. I understand that Trump and Mathis weren’t in a position to stop these things from being launched, but could they have at least begged out of the ceremony? Send Ms. Trump, which used to be the tradition anyway.

    Read More
    • Replies: @NickG
    The new Queen Elizabeth class carriers are conventionally powered are about 70% the size of a Ford or Nimitz class super-carrier. Being conventionally powered against the US and French nuclear power carriers, limits the on-board storage capacity for Jet fuel and necessitates weekly refiling from fleed auxiliary tankers, with the massive force protection and capability penalty that this entails. This when the Royal Navy has only 19 major surface combat ships - Frigates and Destroyers).

    The Brits also built the carrier - utterly idiotically - without catapults and arresstor wires (cats & traps), despite the ship design having an angled deck. Limiting the aircraft it can carry to choppers and the F35B - the vertical take off version of the new Joint Strike, limited for range and payload and with a greater maintenance overhead due to the complicated gearbox driven vertical propulsion system. It thus cannot inter-operate with the US Navy's F35Cs (the cats and traps variant), the F/A18 Super Hornets or indeed the French Catobar Rafale fighters.

    The British military is a joke, and I say that as an ex commando subaltern.
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  31. I am sure the ChiComms are laughing themselves silly as such stupidity.

    BJC started this nonsense, but the spineless mfs in the military went along with it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kara_Hultgreen

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  32. You’re on the ocean. Can’t you just piss into the sea?

    Read More
    • Replies: @hhsiii
    If you don't mind getting covered in your own piss.
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  33. @Anonymous
    I was just going to say, if you have a penis you don't need a urinal on a ship, that's what the ocean is for.

    Man-parts overboard!

    Read More
    • Replies: @Dennis Dale
    First Lieutenant: "Whoo. This water's cold!"
    Senior Chief: "Deep, too."
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  34. neutral says:

    This reminds me of a place I once worked that installed a special wheelchair toilet on every floor (20 floors in total). I asked and looked around and there was basically one person on a wheelchair that worked there. That however was not the issue, the issue was that I decided to use the wheelchair toilet and a few people were shocked that I would do this, at first I thought they were not serious but it in the end the arguments turned out to be something like out of Jerry Seinfeld, but without the laughter.

    Read More
    • Replies: @eD
    Probably thinks to the Americans with Disabilities Act, handicapped friendly toilets are becoming more common. With most toilets fitting that criteria, the able bodied can feel less guilty about using one.

    This is one of those things where the effects have been very mixed. Like with anti-slum legislation and housing, if you require toilets to be handicapped accessible, you get fewer of them. This is increasingly a problem as the population of the United States has roughly doubled in the last forty years but the number of new public toilets has not kept place. Even men increasingly face a line when trying to use one. But get an injury, or have a disabled family member, and you really welcome the handicapped toilets. It seems that you want a good mix of both kinds, but something in human nature prevents getting things like this right.
    , @ben tillman
    You're right, and they're nuts.
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  35. Tom-in-VA says:

    Free advice for iSteve readers in the plumbing /bathroom remodeling business. Specialize in the conversion of single-gender, multi-user bathrooms into single-user, gender neutral WCs. It’s the wave of the future, and a sure fire way to avoid lawsuits. In ten years, commercial and public buildings will all be converting them.

    Read More
    • Agree: Jim Don Bob
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  36. Dennis Dale says: • Website

    I posted on this.
    Camille Paglia:

    Concentration and projection are remarkably demonstrated by urination, one of male anatomy’s most efficient comparmentalizations. Freud thinks primitive man preened himself on his ability to put out a fire with a stream of urine [I'm willing to bet I'm not the only American youth to witness one or more of his fellows demonstrating their ability to, say, clear a brick wall]. A strange thing to be proud of but certainly beyond the scope of a woman [thus a source of, mostly, unspoken female resentment, a small but significant tributary contributing to feminism's Amazon], who would scorch her hams in the process. Male urinatinon really is a kind of accomplishment, an arc of transcendance.

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  37. @Dan Hayes
    kihowi:

    The movie you referred to had certain parallels with Stewart's life.

    Jimmy Stewart entered WWII as an Air Force private and retired as a general. His son died in service in Vietnam after volunteering. In later years Stewart said he could never forgive the war resistance movement after the wartime sacrifice of his son.

    Jimmy Stewart entered WWII as an Air Force private and retired as a general. His son died in service in Vietnam after volunteering. In later years Stewart said he could never forgive the war resistance movement after the wartime sacrifice of his son.

    Forgive them for what? Trying to save the lives of people like his son?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Jack Hanson
    LMBO yeah that's what the war resistance movement was.
    , @Anonymous
    Probably for making the war seem dishonorable, and thus his son's service dishonorable by extension. Death before dishonor and all that.
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  38. tyrone says:

    If we get in a war the hagfish won’t mind.

    Read More
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  39. @ben tillman

    Jimmy Stewart entered WWII as an Air Force private and retired as a general. His son died in service in Vietnam after volunteering. In later years Stewart said he could never forgive the war resistance movement after the wartime sacrifice of his son.
     
    Forgive them for what? Trying to save the lives of people like his son?

    LMBO yeah that’s what the war resistance movement was.

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  40. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @ben tillman

    Jimmy Stewart entered WWII as an Air Force private and retired as a general. His son died in service in Vietnam after volunteering. In later years Stewart said he could never forgive the war resistance movement after the wartime sacrifice of his son.
     
    Forgive them for what? Trying to save the lives of people like his son?

    Probably for making the war seem dishonorable, and thus his son’s service dishonorable by extension. Death before dishonor and all that.

    Read More
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  41. dfordoom says: • Website
    @reiner Tor
    At this point I don't think it matters much. The US Navy will be used in stupid, pointless neocon wars anyway. The less efficient it is, the better.

    At this point I don’t think it matters much. The US Navy will be used in stupid, pointless neocon wars anyway. The less efficient it is, the better.

    Yep.

    Read More
    • Replies: @3g4me
    @40 dfordoom: I read recently the Navy is almost half non-White. Now that sailors no longer have to know how to swim or do celestial navigation, why not jettison the English language along with urinals and White men? As others note, the Navy will not be used for anything worthwhile overseas, and the less competent it is when TSHTF, the less likely it will be able to shell those fighting in the resistance against Faceborg and his ilk.
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  42. Alfa158 says:
    @Dave Pinsen
    Per Wikipedia, we have 11 aircraft carriers in service. The country with the next-highest number of aircraft carriers in service is Italy, with 2: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_aircraft_carriers_by_country

    And Italy's bigger carrier is about a fifth the size of the USS Gerald Ford and cost about a tenth as much: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italian_aircraft_carrier_Cavour

    For the cost of one aircraft carrier, Trump could have a beautiful wall on the southern border.

    That gives me an idea: I wonder if Mexico might be interested in having their own flattop? We can offer to trade them one in exchange for them building the wall for us.

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  43. eD says:
    @neutral
    This reminds me of a place I once worked that installed a special wheelchair toilet on every floor (20 floors in total). I asked and looked around and there was basically one person on a wheelchair that worked there. That however was not the issue, the issue was that I decided to use the wheelchair toilet and a few people were shocked that I would do this, at first I thought they were not serious but it in the end the arguments turned out to be something like out of Jerry Seinfeld, but without the laughter.

    Probably thinks to the Americans with Disabilities Act, handicapped friendly toilets are becoming more common. With most toilets fitting that criteria, the able bodied can feel less guilty about using one.

    This is one of those things where the effects have been very mixed. Like with anti-slum legislation and housing, if you require toilets to be handicapped accessible, you get fewer of them. This is increasingly a problem as the population of the United States has roughly doubled in the last forty years but the number of new public toilets has not kept place. Even men increasingly face a line when trying to use one. But get an injury, or have a disabled family member, and you really welcome the handicapped toilets. It seems that you want a good mix of both kinds, but something in human nature prevents getting things like this right.

    Read More
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  44. Alfa158 says:
    @Jim Don Bob
    Thank you for your service to our country.

    You’re welcome, but I was lucky and never got shot at. The only thing I sacrificed was a little income compared to being in a civilian job. For others, all gave some, some gave all. I’m mostly saddened that our country is being given away after all the real sacrifices.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Jim Don Bob
    Agree. Iraq was mostly ok after Dubya, but BHO gave it all away by not agreeing to keep 30K troops there.

    And then he bragged about it.
    , @Steve Sailer
    Handicap ramps have been a boon for mothers pushing baby carriages. It seems kind of dumb not to have a strategy of directly making things better for mothers with babies though ...
    , @whoever
    You didn't have to get shot at to be in danger in SAC. One of my grandfathers flew B-47s out of Pease and Briz Norton (on reflex). That airplane took a lot of skill to fly and did not tolerate mistakes.
    My other grandfather was in the Navy and it had its share of murderous airplanes, too (eg. F7U). Both of them were in that lucky generation that got to participate in three big wars (Viet Nam being the final one).
    Here's a list of all B-47 losses. Notice how many crew were killed. Just brutal.
    And here's a video of a B-47 crashing on landing at Pease in 1958:
    https://youtu.be/9PELupKXUfY?t=49
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  45. Scottt says:

    I was on the Nimitz from 2005-2010 and none of the “heads” I saw had urinals even back then. It’s the only ship I have any experience with and I probably only saw maybe 20% of the enlisted male heads on board even though I spent about 2 years of my life on that boat. Don’t see why people have made this such a big deal with the new ship.

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    • Agree: whoever
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  46. Alfa158 says:
    @Pat Boyle
    Alfa158 - I like the cut of your jib.

    Aar! Avast there matey, belay that salty lingo! I be a lubber, splice me wi’ a marlin spike, else!

    Read More
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  47. dfordoom says: • Website
    @Dave Pinsen
    Per Wikipedia, we have 11 aircraft carriers in service. The country with the next-highest number of aircraft carriers in service is Italy, with 2: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_aircraft_carriers_by_country

    And Italy's bigger carrier is about a fifth the size of the USS Gerald Ford and cost about a tenth as much: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italian_aircraft_carrier_Cavour

    For the cost of one aircraft carrier, Trump could have a beautiful wall on the southern border.

    For the cost of one aircraft carrier, Trump could have a beautiful wall on the southern border.

    But that won’t benefit the military-industrial complex so it won’t happen. There’s no way Trump will have the guts to confront the military-industrial complex.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Jack Hanson
    "He'll never win the primary!"
    , @syonredux

    But that won’t benefit the military-industrial complex so it won’t happen. There’s no way Trump will have the guts to confront the military-industrial complex.
     
    We need to develop a Wall-industrial complex......
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  48. In Chicago, they once placed waterless urinals where you pissed into an oil in City Hall.

    http://www.nbcchicago.com/news/local/Green-experiment-at-Chicago-City-Hall-stinks-waterless-urinals-copper-pipes-83755952.html

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  49. @Alfa158
    You're welcome, but I was lucky and never got shot at. The only thing I sacrificed was a little income compared to being in a civilian job. For others, all gave some, some gave all. I'm mostly saddened that our country is being given away after all the real sacrifices.

    Agree. Iraq was mostly ok after Dubya, but BHO gave it all away by not agreeing to keep 30K troops there.

    And then he bragged about it.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Johann Ricke

    Agree. Iraq was mostly ok after Dubya, but BHO gave it all away by not agreeing to keep 30K troops there.

    And then he bragged about it.
     

    Annual US casualties went from 60 to a low single digit number after Uncle Sam withdrew. And annual expenditures there went from ~$100b to single digit billions (mostly aid after the withdrawal).

    I'd say it was about time the Shiites and the Kurds finally did all their own fighting. If 80% of the population can't keep 20% of the population down without a huge external power putting its thumb on the scale, maybe it's fated that they be ruled by that minority.

    Powell's "you break it, you own it" statement is absurd. It's the kind of glib nonsense we expect from a moronic rap artist or someone like Muhammad Ali or Jesse Jackson, not a high-ranking member of the defense establishment. It's a less intelligent version of the fake profundity we expect from the Peter Sellers character ("Chance") in Being There. We did not break Iraq - we freed the Shiite Arab and Kurdish majority from minority Sunni Arab oppression. What we broke was Sunni Arab power. And we broke that power at the cost of ~5K GI's in body bags and ~$1T in spending (supplementary appropriations + wear-and-tear on equipment that wasn't counted in those appropriations, which is why readiness is lower today than on the eve of the war).

    And the outcome of that withdrawal? The Shiites and Kurds did manage to keep the Sunni Arabs down, with air support from Uncle Sam and no small amount of mayhem. And more important, from our perspective - with very few American dead and far less American spending. It's time they stood on their own two feet, and Obama was a key part of that.

    , @WJ
    Iraq was charlie foxtrot waste of blood and treasure the moment we invaded. You can't put lipstick on that pig anymore. W stabilized by paying the Sunnis not to kill us or the Shiites. When that money went away, it turned back to chaos.
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  50. @neutral
    This reminds me of a place I once worked that installed a special wheelchair toilet on every floor (20 floors in total). I asked and looked around and there was basically one person on a wheelchair that worked there. That however was not the issue, the issue was that I decided to use the wheelchair toilet and a few people were shocked that I would do this, at first I thought they were not serious but it in the end the arguments turned out to be something like out of Jerry Seinfeld, but without the laughter.

    You’re right, and they’re nuts.

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  51. Wilkey says:

    “For the cost of one aircraft carrier, Trump could have a beautiful wall on the southern border.”

    Indeed. And that’s just building the damn carrier. Provisioning, manpower, and maintenance aren’t cheap, either. Funny that all the neos who say that a wall is too expensive want us to build 20 of the damn things. How about we offer the Left to cut one carrier in exchange for a wall?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman

    Funny that all the neos who say that a wall is too expensive want us to build 20 of the damn things. How about we offer the Left to cut one carrier in exchange for a wall?
     
    Just back of the envelope calculations (comparison to Interstate Highway construction), a decent wall/barrier is about 1/2 day's spending of the Feral Government. Don't let anyone BS you that the cost is any kind of factor. The border wall/fence is not there because people in power don't want it there.
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  52. hhsiii says:
    @anony-mouse
    You're on the ocean. Can't you just piss into the sea?

    If you don’t mind getting covered in your own piss.

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  53. @dfordoom

    For the cost of one aircraft carrier, Trump could have a beautiful wall on the southern border.
     
    But that won't benefit the military-industrial complex so it won't happen. There's no way Trump will have the guts to confront the military-industrial complex.

    “He’ll never win the primary!”

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  54. @Clyde
    In the old baseball parks you would piss against a long piece of communal sheet metal sloppily installed against a wall. I found it a bit scary as a nine year old surrounded by old guys whipping it out, but my urgent need to piss overcame this.

    In the old baseball parks you would piss against a long piece of communal sheet metal sloppily installed against a wall.

    That sounds a lot like Franklin Field in the 1970′s. When I got to first grade, the school had trough urinals. No problem. But Franklin Field had a wall you peed on, and it trickled down to a little channel slightly below floor level.

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    • Replies: @Lovernios X
    Crazy Sexy brothel in Frankfurt, FRG had that pissing wall setup with a trickling water pipe flushing down into a drain on the floor, too back in early 70s. Sticky and stinky.
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  55. anonguy says:

    I got out of the Navy at the end of October, 1989. Nine days later, the Berlin Wall opened up and it was game over as far as I was concerned.

    Not very long after, Tailhook happened, and it has been downhill for the Navy ever since.

    The Navy in the 80s rocked, Top Gun, Officer and Gentleman, Hunt for Red October, definitely the kinds of concerns for which I joined.

    This is a pretty fun video from Subic Bay/Olongapo in 1988. Can you imagine the US Navy cooperating with such a video now, much less the services they provided for the bar girls?

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  56. syonredux says:
    @dfordoom

    For the cost of one aircraft carrier, Trump could have a beautiful wall on the southern border.
     
    But that won't benefit the military-industrial complex so it won't happen. There's no way Trump will have the guts to confront the military-industrial complex.

    But that won’t benefit the military-industrial complex so it won’t happen. There’s no way Trump will have the guts to confront the military-industrial complex.

    We need to develop a Wall-industrial complex……

    Read More
    • Replies: @dfordoom

    We need to develop a Wall-industrial complex……
     
    And maybe an industrial-industrial complex. You know, actually building useful stuff that people want and need.
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  57. @Alfa158
    You're welcome, but I was lucky and never got shot at. The only thing I sacrificed was a little income compared to being in a civilian job. For others, all gave some, some gave all. I'm mostly saddened that our country is being given away after all the real sacrifices.

    Handicap ramps have been a boon for mothers pushing baby carriages. It seems kind of dumb not to have a strategy of directly making things better for mothers with babies though …

    Read More
    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman

    Handicap ramps have been a boon for mothers pushing baby carriages.
     
    ... , not to mention guys on roller blades with their kids on tricycles.
    , @Dave Pinsen
    I've seen more expectant mother spots near stores in recent years. It makes more sense than handicapped spots, to be honest. There seem to be very few truly handicapped people who drive their own cars, so the handicapped spots usually get taken by people who can walk under their own power but have or are recovering from a medical condition that warrants a handicapped tag.
    , @dfordoom

    Handicap ramps have been a boon for mothers pushing baby carriages.
     
    So do the new US carriers have wheelchair ramps? It would be incredibly discriminatory if they don't. How do the disabled sailors get around the ships? I assume the Navy does have disabled sailors? If not I foresee lawsuits.
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  58. An aircraft carrier without urinals is sharia-compliant. See

    http://www.virtualmosque.com/ummah/men/standing-and-urinating-in-islam/

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  59. Mr. Anon says:

    Perhaps the sailors should retaliate at ther PC chain of command by peeing all over the seats.

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    • Replies: @Scottt
    Their chain of command uses a different bathroom
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  60. @Dr. X
    Ah, yes... U.S. Navy personnel are too incompetent to avoid colliding with Philippine cargo ships despite having the most sophisticated navigation equipment (and the biggest defense budget) in the history of the planet... and the brass are busy building warships without urinals.

    Glad to see they've got their priorities straight, eh? A snapshot of post-America, 2017.

    http://www.cnn.com/2017/07/21/politics/fitzgerald-initial-investigation-blames-navy/index.html

    Nothing new. The US Navy has been colliding with things for decades.

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  61. I’m sure the engineers will still piss in the bilges.

    You’re mention of luxury resorts did bring to mind numerous variations on “You [expletives deleted]! This [expletive deleted] is not a [multiple extremely foul expletives deleted] luxury [optional extra expletive deleted] resort!!” that I heard during various trainings.

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  62. Scottt says:
    @Mr. Anon
    Perhaps the sailors should retaliate at ther PC chain of command by peeing all over the seats.

    Their chain of command uses a different bathroom

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  63. @Dave Pinsen
    Per Wikipedia, we have 11 aircraft carriers in service. The country with the next-highest number of aircraft carriers in service is Italy, with 2: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_aircraft_carriers_by_country

    And Italy's bigger carrier is about a fifth the size of the USS Gerald Ford and cost about a tenth as much: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italian_aircraft_carrier_Cavour

    For the cost of one aircraft carrier, Trump could have a beautiful wall on the southern border.

    Is the French Charles deGaulle carrier the only foreign carrier that is within 20 or 30% of the capacity of an American carrier?

    A decade ago I did some research and it looked like America had 80% of the world’s carrier jet warplanes.

    Read More
    • Replies: @anonymous
    The new British carrier Queen Elizabeth will be larger than the De Gaulle
    , @Dave Pinsen
    Wiki says Charles de Gaulle has a displacement of about 42,000 tons, versus 100,000 tons for the Gerald Ford class. China has a 50,000 ton one. The larger of the two Italian aircraft carriers has a displacement of ~29,000 tons.

    I remember reading once that the U.S. Marine Corps had more fighter jets than the British Royal Air Force.
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  64. Mr. Anon says:
    @Anonymous
    Just go Turkish. Squat toilets are cleaner and a more efficient use of limited shipboard space.

    Or go Star Trek. No toilets anywhere for anyone.

    Or go Star Trek. No toilets anywhere for anyone.

    Maybe they just pissed into the transporters and beamed it out into space.

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    • Replies: @Lovernios X
    Where do you think the organic material came from for the replicator?
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  65. @Wilkey
    "For the cost of one aircraft carrier, Trump could have a beautiful wall on the southern border."

    Indeed. And that's just building the damn carrier. Provisioning, manpower, and maintenance aren't cheap, either. Funny that all the neos who say that a wall is too expensive want us to build 20 of the damn things. How about we offer the Left to cut one carrier in exchange for a wall?

    Funny that all the neos who say that a wall is too expensive want us to build 20 of the damn things. How about we offer the Left to cut one carrier in exchange for a wall?

    Just back of the envelope calculations (comparison to Interstate Highway construction), a decent wall/barrier is about 1/2 day’s spending of the Feral Government. Don’t let anyone BS you that the cost is any kind of factor. The border wall/fence is not there because people in power don’t want it there.

    Read More
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  66. @Steve Sailer
    Handicap ramps have been a boon for mothers pushing baby carriages. It seems kind of dumb not to have a strategy of directly making things better for mothers with babies though ...

    Handicap ramps have been a boon for mothers pushing baby carriages.

    … , not to mention guys on roller blades with their kids on tricycles.

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  67. bomag says:
    @Father O'Hara
    That's also what the mess hall is for. But, humor aside, Obama lost. I thought we could cut back on some of the Looney tunes stuff.

    But, humor aside, Obama lost. I thought we could cut back on some of the Looney tunes stuff.

    I suppose it is the momentum.

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  68. We will have a navy of Sitzpinklers!

    Urban Dictionary: Sitzpinkler: In German, the phrase for someone who sits and urinates; a “Sitzpinkler” is equivalent to wimp, wuss or pussy.

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  69. Dr. X says:
    @Clyde
    In the old baseball parks you would piss against a long piece of communal sheet metal sloppily installed against a wall. I found it a bit scary as a nine year old surrounded by old guys whipping it out, but my urgent need to piss overcame this.

    In the old baseball parks you would piss against a long piece of communal sheet metal sloppily installed against a wall.

    I recall a college bar that had a long trough on the wall for a urinal. They filled it with ice at the beginning of every night, and it was melted by last call.

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  70. Dr. X says:
    @eD
    I did try to find out what went on with the history of toilets, to really see if removing urinals in favor of more st-down toilets would be a big deal.

    My honest suspicion was that removing the urinals in favor of Arab style toilets would have been a bigger deal, or going without toilets at all and having the sailors do their business in jars which would be thrown over the side of the ship. But the urinals themselves are nothing special.

    It turns out that there is a huge amount of cultural signalling that goes with this stuff.

    However, to the extent humans have had a standard, for what its worth its been the chamberpot, though without privacy and normally without some sort of flushing or plumbing system. The navy could probably get away with port-a-johns on the flight deck, with the refuse collected periodically and dumped into the sea. That is pretty much how the army handles the issue.

    But culturally signal away!

    It turns out that there is a huge amount of cultural signalling that goes with this stuff.

    Then maybe they can install a urinal as a work of art?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fountain_(Duchamp)

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  71. 3g4me says:
    @dfordoom

    At this point I don’t think it matters much. The US Navy will be used in stupid, pointless neocon wars anyway. The less efficient it is, the better.
     
    Yep.

    @40 dfordoom: I read recently the Navy is almost half non-White. Now that sailors no longer have to know how to swim or do celestial navigation, why not jettison the English language along with urinals and White men? As others note, the Navy will not be used for anything worthwhile overseas, and the less competent it is when TSHTF, the less likely it will be able to shell those fighting in the resistance against Faceborg and his ilk.

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    • Replies: @dfordoom

    Now that sailors no longer have to know how to swim or do celestial navigation, why not jettison the English language along with urinals and White men?
     
    That's a great idea. Forcing military personnel to learn English is contrary to the true principles of diversity. Non-English speaking personnel would enrich the services.
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  72. anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @Steve Sailer
    Is the French Charles deGaulle carrier the only foreign carrier that is within 20 or 30% of the capacity of an American carrier?

    A decade ago I did some research and it looked like America had 80% of the world's carrier jet warplanes.

    The new British carrier Queen Elizabeth will be larger than the De Gaulle

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    • Replies: @dfordoom

    The new British carrier Queen Elizabeth will be larger than the De Gaulle
     
    And will offer the British the exciting prospect of being able to participate more fully in all the wars that the neocons have planned.
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  73. guest says:
    @BenKenobi
    Synchronicity in the thread!

    Isn't Joe DiMaggio the guy Kramer saw dunking a donut is his coffee? In a Dunkin' Donuts no less?

    (Also: 18% too many.)

    Dinky Donuts, actually. I have no idea whether the show made that business up or not.

    I only remember that scene because of Kramer’s yelps.

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  74. @eD
    I did try to find out what went on with the history of toilets, to really see if removing urinals in favor of more st-down toilets would be a big deal.

    My honest suspicion was that removing the urinals in favor of Arab style toilets would have been a bigger deal, or going without toilets at all and having the sailors do their business in jars which would be thrown over the side of the ship. But the urinals themselves are nothing special.

    It turns out that there is a huge amount of cultural signalling that goes with this stuff.

    However, to the extent humans have had a standard, for what its worth its been the chamberpot, though without privacy and normally without some sort of flushing or plumbing system. The navy could probably get away with port-a-johns on the flight deck, with the refuse collected periodically and dumped into the sea. That is pretty much how the army handles the issue.

    But culturally signal away!

    They don’t need port-a-potties, they can just go old-school with outhouse-style holes cut in a platform off the prow.

    Imagine taking a dump with an F-14 taking off inches above your head!

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  75. @Buzz Mohawk
    We can project our seamen anywhere in the world!

    BTW I just discovered that the new men's rooms at my local beach are the same as on the new ship, no urinals. I think I'll just pee in water from now on.

    The US should retain its seamen rather than projecting them. By retaining seamen, the US can avoid losing its life force.

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    • Agree: ATX Hipster
    • Replies: @Buzz Mohawk
    Indeed, we must preserve our life force (and our precious bodily fluids).

    That's wise policy.

    No more Inseminate the World - Get Screwed by the World.
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  76. whoever says: • Website
    @Alfa158
    You're welcome, but I was lucky and never got shot at. The only thing I sacrificed was a little income compared to being in a civilian job. For others, all gave some, some gave all. I'm mostly saddened that our country is being given away after all the real sacrifices.

    You didn’t have to get shot at to be in danger in SAC. One of my grandfathers flew B-47s out of Pease and Briz Norton (on reflex). That airplane took a lot of skill to fly and did not tolerate mistakes.
    My other grandfather was in the Navy and it had its share of murderous airplanes, too (eg. F7U). Both of them were in that lucky generation that got to participate in three big wars (Viet Nam being the final one).
    Here’s a list of all B-47 losses. Notice how many crew were killed. Just brutal.
    And here’s a video of a B-47 crashing on landing at Pease in 1958:

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    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Something like 30,000 Americans died in non-combat aircraft accidents during WWII (e.g., Carole Lombard).
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  77. Dave Pinsen says: • Website
    @Steve Sailer
    Is the French Charles deGaulle carrier the only foreign carrier that is within 20 or 30% of the capacity of an American carrier?

    A decade ago I did some research and it looked like America had 80% of the world's carrier jet warplanes.

    Wiki says Charles de Gaulle has a displacement of about 42,000 tons, versus 100,000 tons for the Gerald Ford class. China has a 50,000 ton one. The larger of the two Italian aircraft carriers has a displacement of ~29,000 tons.

    I remember reading once that the U.S. Marine Corps had more fighter jets than the British Royal Air Force.

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    • Replies: @anonymous
    The 101st airborne (air assault) division might have more helicopters than the entire British military combined.
    , @jim jones
    HMS Queen Elizabeth weighs in at 65,000 tonnes:

    http://www.forces.net/news/pilots-eye-view-hms-queen-elizabeth-marks-100-years-first-aircraft-landing
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  78. Dave Pinsen says: • Website
    @Steve Sailer
    Handicap ramps have been a boon for mothers pushing baby carriages. It seems kind of dumb not to have a strategy of directly making things better for mothers with babies though ...

    I’ve seen more expectant mother spots near stores in recent years. It makes more sense than handicapped spots, to be honest. There seem to be very few truly handicapped people who drive their own cars, so the handicapped spots usually get taken by people who can walk under their own power but have or are recovering from a medical condition that warrants a handicapped tag.

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  79. @whoever
    You didn't have to get shot at to be in danger in SAC. One of my grandfathers flew B-47s out of Pease and Briz Norton (on reflex). That airplane took a lot of skill to fly and did not tolerate mistakes.
    My other grandfather was in the Navy and it had its share of murderous airplanes, too (eg. F7U). Both of them were in that lucky generation that got to participate in three big wars (Viet Nam being the final one).
    Here's a list of all B-47 losses. Notice how many crew were killed. Just brutal.
    And here's a video of a B-47 crashing on landing at Pease in 1958:
    https://youtu.be/9PELupKXUfY?t=49

    Something like 30,000 Americans died in non-combat aircraft accidents during WWII (e.g., Carole Lombard).

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    • Replies: @ATX Hipster
    And Glenn Miller.

    30,000 seems incredibly high. How many of those deaths were war-related? What percentage of Americans had even flown on a plane by the end of WWII?

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  80. Lurker says:
    @kihowi
    Strategic Air Command is also a very cool movie with Jimmy Stewart and about the most painful comparison to whatever this is.

    He is a successful baseball player who gives up is career to serve in the air force, all the time with his beautiful, graceful, loyal wife (played by that redhead whose name I forgot) by his side. Most of the movie is grown men, serious men, working hard together to solve problems for the the defense of their country. Good lord.

    And worse yet I doubt toilets were mentioned anywhere in the movie.

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  81. anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @Dave Pinsen
    Wiki says Charles de Gaulle has a displacement of about 42,000 tons, versus 100,000 tons for the Gerald Ford class. China has a 50,000 ton one. The larger of the two Italian aircraft carriers has a displacement of ~29,000 tons.

    I remember reading once that the U.S. Marine Corps had more fighter jets than the British Royal Air Force.

    The 101st airborne (air assault) division might have more helicopters than the entire British military combined.

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  82. jim jones says:
    @Dave Pinsen
    Wiki says Charles de Gaulle has a displacement of about 42,000 tons, versus 100,000 tons for the Gerald Ford class. China has a 50,000 ton one. The larger of the two Italian aircraft carriers has a displacement of ~29,000 tons.

    I remember reading once that the U.S. Marine Corps had more fighter jets than the British Royal Air Force.
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  83. El Dato says:

    Man, that Killer Ape in 2001 was pretty deplorable.

    Hmmm…. there may be a T-Shirt in this.

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  84. @Steve Sailer
    Something like 30,000 Americans died in non-combat aircraft accidents during WWII (e.g., Carole Lombard).

    And Glenn Miller.

    30,000 seems incredibly high. How many of those deaths were war-related? What percentage of Americans had even flown on a plane by the end of WWII?

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    • Replies: @whoever

    30,000 seems incredibly high.
     
    Actually, it's not.
    From the abstract of EARNING THEIR WINGS: ACCIDENTS AND FATALITIES IN THE UNITED STATES ARMY AIR FORCES DURING FLIGHT TRAINING IN WORLD WAR TWO:

    "Over the course of the war, the US Army Air Forces suffered over 54,000 accidents in the continental United States. These accidents accounted for over 15,000 fatalities...."

    Of the 1074 Women's Air Service Pilots, 38 were killed in crashes.

    Here is an interesting table of AAF accidents and fatalities during the war that breaks down by type and rate as well as total numbers.
    Airplane Accidents in Continental US, By Principal Model of Airplane - Number and Rate: 1942 to 1945

    And here is a list of all US Navy fatalities including aviation related. Note that far more died in accidents than in combat.
    http://i.imgur.com/zpxn0tG.png

    And that's not including civilian deaths such as Carol Lombard's and Glenn Miller's.
    "Wheezer" (Bobby Hutchins) in the Our Gang movie shorts joined the USAAF and died in a mid-air collision during training at Merced Army Airfield in 1945.
    https://youtu.be/AZ70Qy1pM7Y
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  85. @Chrisnonymous
    The US should retain its seamen rather than projecting them. By retaining seamen, the US can avoid losing its life force.

    Indeed, we must preserve our life force (and our precious bodily fluids).

    That’s wise policy.

    No more Inseminate the World – Get Screwed by the World.

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  86. Dennis Dale says: • Website
    @Bard of Bumperstickers
    Man-parts overboard!

    First Lieutenant: “Whoo. This water’s cold!”
    Senior Chief: “Deep, too.”

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  87. @Alfa158
    How many carriers can the Navy need anyway? They are useful for fighting low level wars against enemies with limited ability to project their own power back out to sea, like Afghans, Libyans, Panamanians etc. but it would be be suicidal sending them in against high capability forces like the Russians or Chinese who have plenty of stealthy attack subs and supersonic anti-shipping missiles.
    It seems that for the low level wars the Navy shouldn't need more than a handful of these white elephants in commission at a time.
    Maybe it's just my residual hostility to the Navy since they used to mock the AF. I find it is poetic justice that they used to mock us by saying "Flare to land, squat to pee!". Who's squatting now Squids?
    BTW, I was in SAC and the patch read "Peace is our Profession". Privately we all thought it should have been "Nuke 'em 'til they glow in the dark".

    Steve Hsu recently wrote a blog post on the coming obsolescence of our carriers, and the implications for US force projection in the Pacific: http://infoproc.blogspot.com/2017/07/machine-intelligence-threatens.html

    The gist is: missile systems, developed by China and Russia, against which our carriers can’t defend will become cheap enough over the next decade that even smaller nations will be able to afford them.

    Actually, Hsu predicts $10mm price tags on these missiles, which would put them in reach of well-heeled non-state actors such as Hezbollah.

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    • Replies: @gcochran
    You couldn't defend a carrier against serious opposition 40 years ago.
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  88. This is all the more bizarre because water conservation is a big priority onboard ship. NPR had an interesting profile of the captain (or admiral) of a big aircraft carrier several years back, and he spent a lot of his time yelling at the thousands onboard to take shorter showers.

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    • Replies: @res
    I guess there is never enough clean water, but that seems odd given this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desalination#Cogeneration

    A typical Supercarrier in the US military uses nuclear power to desalinate 400,000 US gallons (1,500,000 l; 330,000 imp gal) of water per day.[27]
     
    Or is the issue the dirty water?
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  89. TheJester says:
    @Anonymous
    I was just going to say, if you have a penis you don't need a urinal on a ship, that's what the ocean is for.

    No more urinals on new Navy ships to make women feel more at home. What’s next? Tampon dispensers strategically placed throughout the ships? Breast feeding pods, anyone?

    I was humored to read the Internet short about 36 women (10% of the women on the ship) being replaced aboard a Navy ship on deployment in the Middle East due to pregnancy. Back to the home port and shore duty for these ladies, secure in the knowledge that the Navy offers liberal maternity leave and a wide-range of government-paid daycare options. Under the latest policy, they are also protected from redeployment for up to a year after giving birth.

    Thirty-six crew members of the supply ship Acadia were pregnant and had to be transferred during the ship’s deployment to the Persian Gulf, naval officials say.

    More than half became pregnant after the ship was under way, but a Navy spokesman, Lieut. Comdr. Jeff Smallwood, said there were no indications of improper fraternization between men and women on the ship.

    “These women have a right to get pregnant,” Commander Smallwood said. “The conclusion somebody is jumping to is that the Acadia is a love boat, and that’s not the case.”

    http://www.nytimes.com/1991/04/30/us/36-women-pregnant-aboard-a-navy-ship-that-served-in-gulf.html

    But this one is the best. In 2016, a female sailor gave birth on the aircraft carrier, USS Dwight D. Eisenhower, deployed to the Middle East. Note the official statement about the main focus for the U.S. Navy, the ship, and its crew.

    “As the baby was born at sea aboard an operational unit, the main focus for the U.S. Navy, the ship, and its crew is the safety and well-being of the baby and the mother,” Cmdr. Bill Urban, U.S. Naval Forces Central Command spokesman, told The Virginian-Pilot. “The baby and mother have arrived in Bahrain via helicopter with a medical escort and have been taken to a shore-based hospital for follow on care.”

    An incubator, diapers, and formula were flown out to the carrier following the baby’s birth, which was not immediately clear, reports said. The incubator was used to transport the baby during the medical evacuation.

    http://www.foxnews.com/health/2016/09/12/us-navy-sailor-gives-birth-on-aircraft-carrier-after-complaining-stomach-pains.html

    As one commenter on the Unz review related, once the number of women in an organization reaches critical mass, the primary mission of the organization changes to one of accommodating female emotions and their unique, gender-based needs. It is heartening to see the U.S. Navy providing thought leadership in this new, critical area of military preparedness.

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  90. Brutusale says:
    @Clyde
    In the old baseball parks you would piss against a long piece of communal sheet metal sloppily installed against a wall. I found it a bit scary as a nine year old surrounded by old guys whipping it out, but my urgent need to piss overcame this.

    The troughs at Fenway Park were always a part of boys becoming men in Boston. They enhanced throughput also cut back on drunk patrons urinating in the sinks, as was common at the old Boston Garden.

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    • Replies: @Clyde

    The troughs at Fenway Park were always a part of boys becoming men in Boston. They enhanced throughput also cut back on drunk patrons urinating in the sinks, as was common at the old Boston Garden.
     
    And how about those crypto-drunken Fenway bleachers? I saw five games in the bleachers but this was in the post piss trough era of the 199os. I always ate a funky sausage sandwich w peppers and onions/ outside from a cart vendor/ before going in.

    Enhanced throughput...lulz

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  91. res says:
    @Spotted Toad
    This is all the more bizarre because water conservation is a big priority onboard ship. NPR had an interesting profile of the captain (or admiral) of a big aircraft carrier several years back, and he spent a lot of his time yelling at the thousands onboard to take shorter showers.

    I guess there is never enough clean water, but that seems odd given this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desalination#Cogeneration

    A typical Supercarrier in the US military uses nuclear power to desalinate 400,000 US gallons (1,500,000 l; 330,000 imp gal) of water per day.[27]

    Or is the issue the dirty water?

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    • Replies: @whoever
    Four-hundred thousand gallons of water may seem a lot, but with a complement of 3,184 personnel (with 203 officers); 2,800 aircrew (with 366 officers); and 70 flag (with 25 officers) on a Nimitz-class carrier, that equals 66 gallons of water per person for all fresh water use for everything

    FYI:


    2.8.2.5 Showers and Fresh Water. Fresh water while at sea is precious! The ship's capability to produce fresh water is limited. The storage capacity of fresh water tanks is also limited. About 20 to 25 gallons per person per day must provide for cooking, drinking, washing, and bathing. The ship generates fresh water by essentially boiling seawater. This is an expensive undertaking. Navy showers (30-second washdown and 60-second rinse off) should be the norm. Follow this procedure to take a Navy shower:

    After initially wetting down, shut off the water
    Lather up with the water OFF
    Turn the water back on to rinse only

    If everybody follows these rules, there is plenty of fresh water to go around. If we start getting low on water, we are forced to shut off the supply and no one showers. Here's some Navy slang: A shower lasting over five minutes is a "Hollywood Shower." If the ship has to shut off the water it is called "Water Hours." Report any leaking valve. Adhere strictly to any water-usage hours.

     

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  92. NickG says:
    @eD
    I did go to a military reform website and they have to articles on the "Gerald R Ford":

    http://www.pogo.org/straus/issues/defense-budget/2017/how-not-to-build-a-ship-uss-ford.html

    http://www.pogo.org/straus/issues/military-industrial-circus/2017/the-letters-mia-are-in-mattis.html

    Granted, people have been arguing that aircraft carriers are obsolete since the 1980s. And these can't be as bad as the new British carriers without airplanes.

    But it really sounds that they could be crewed completely by trans-gender Muslims from Afighanistan who have never seen the Ocean before, with no toilet facilities at all, and the embarrassment for US national security wouldn't be worse than what is already happening. I understand that Trump and Mathis weren't in a position to stop these things from being launched, but could they have at least begged out of the ceremony? Send Ms. Trump, which used to be the tradition anyway.

    The new Queen Elizabeth class carriers are conventionally powered are about 70% the size of a Ford or Nimitz class super-carrier. Being conventionally powered against the US and French nuclear power carriers, limits the on-board storage capacity for Jet fuel and necessitates weekly refiling from fleed auxiliary tankers, with the massive force protection and capability penalty that this entails. This when the Royal Navy has only 19 major surface combat ships – Frigates and Destroyers).

    The Brits also built the carrier – utterly idiotically – without catapults and arresstor wires (cats & traps), despite the ship design having an angled deck. Limiting the aircraft it can carry to choppers and the F35B – the vertical take off version of the new Joint Strike, limited for range and payload and with a greater maintenance overhead due to the complicated gearbox driven vertical propulsion system. It thus cannot inter-operate with the US Navy’s F35Cs (the cats and traps variant), the F/A18 Super Hornets or indeed the French Catobar Rafale fighters.

    The British military is a joke, and I say that as an ex commando subaltern.

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  93. NickG says:

    But while urinals are being installed in the Ladies Rooms of luxury resorts, urinals are not being installed in the latest American aircraft carrier. From Business Insider:

    Seems like things may be coming to a head….

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  94. gcochran says:
    @ATX Hipster
    Steve Hsu recently wrote a blog post on the coming obsolescence of our carriers, and the implications for US force projection in the Pacific: http://infoproc.blogspot.com/2017/07/machine-intelligence-threatens.html

    The gist is: missile systems, developed by China and Russia, against which our carriers can't defend will become cheap enough over the next decade that even smaller nations will be able to afford them.

    Actually, Hsu predicts $10mm price tags on these missiles, which would put them in reach of well-heeled non-state actors such as Hezbollah.

    You couldn’t defend a carrier against serious opposition 40 years ago.

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    • Replies: @whoever
    You couldn't defend a carrier against serious opposition 75 years ago.
    , @Autochthon
    This statement is patently false about the situation forty years ago, and more so today.
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  95. @Jim Don Bob
    Agree. Iraq was mostly ok after Dubya, but BHO gave it all away by not agreeing to keep 30K troops there.

    And then he bragged about it.

    Agree. Iraq was mostly ok after Dubya, but BHO gave it all away by not agreeing to keep 30K troops there.

    And then he bragged about it.

    Annual US casualties went from 60 to a low single digit number after Uncle Sam withdrew. And annual expenditures there went from ~$100b to single digit billions (mostly aid after the withdrawal).

    I’d say it was about time the Shiites and the Kurds finally did all their own fighting. If 80% of the population can’t keep 20% of the population down without a huge external power putting its thumb on the scale, maybe it’s fated that they be ruled by that minority.

    Powell’s “you break it, you own it” statement is absurd. It’s the kind of glib nonsense we expect from a moronic rap artist or someone like Muhammad Ali or Jesse Jackson, not a high-ranking member of the defense establishment. It’s a less intelligent version of the fake profundity we expect from the Peter Sellers character (“Chance”) in Being There. We did not break Iraq – we freed the Shiite Arab and Kurdish majority from minority Sunni Arab oppression. What we broke was Sunni Arab power. And we broke that power at the cost of ~5K GI’s in body bags and ~$1T in spending (supplementary appropriations + wear-and-tear on equipment that wasn’t counted in those appropriations, which is why readiness is lower today than on the eve of the war).

    And the outcome of that withdrawal? The Shiites and Kurds did manage to keep the Sunni Arabs down, with air support from Uncle Sam and no small amount of mayhem. And more important, from our perspective – with very few American dead and far less American spending. It’s time they stood on their own two feet, and Obama was a key part of that.

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  96. Clyde says:
    @Brutusale
    The troughs at Fenway Park were always a part of boys becoming men in Boston. They enhanced throughput also cut back on drunk patrons urinating in the sinks, as was common at the old Boston Garden.

    The troughs at Fenway Park were always a part of boys becoming men in Boston. They enhanced throughput also cut back on drunk patrons urinating in the sinks, as was common at the old Boston Garden.

    And how about those crypto-drunken Fenway bleachers? I saw five games in the bleachers but this was in the post piss trough era of the 199os. I always ate a funky sausage sandwich w peppers and onions/ outside from a cart vendor/ before going in.

    Enhanced throughput…lulz

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  97. @Alfa158
    How many carriers can the Navy need anyway? They are useful for fighting low level wars against enemies with limited ability to project their own power back out to sea, like Afghans, Libyans, Panamanians etc. but it would be be suicidal sending them in against high capability forces like the Russians or Chinese who have plenty of stealthy attack subs and supersonic anti-shipping missiles.
    It seems that for the low level wars the Navy shouldn't need more than a handful of these white elephants in commission at a time.
    Maybe it's just my residual hostility to the Navy since they used to mock the AF. I find it is poetic justice that they used to mock us by saying "Flare to land, squat to pee!". Who's squatting now Squids?
    BTW, I was in SAC and the patch read "Peace is our Profession". Privately we all thought it should have been "Nuke 'em 'til they glow in the dark".

    Your ignorance about naval warfare is epic in scope.

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    We finally agree.
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  98. dfordoom says: • Website
    @syonredux

    But that won’t benefit the military-industrial complex so it won’t happen. There’s no way Trump will have the guts to confront the military-industrial complex.
     
    We need to develop a Wall-industrial complex......

    We need to develop a Wall-industrial complex……

    And maybe an industrial-industrial complex. You know, actually building useful stuff that people want and need.

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  99. dfordoom says: • Website
    @3g4me
    @40 dfordoom: I read recently the Navy is almost half non-White. Now that sailors no longer have to know how to swim or do celestial navigation, why not jettison the English language along with urinals and White men? As others note, the Navy will not be used for anything worthwhile overseas, and the less competent it is when TSHTF, the less likely it will be able to shell those fighting in the resistance against Faceborg and his ilk.

    Now that sailors no longer have to know how to swim or do celestial navigation, why not jettison the English language along with urinals and White men?

    That’s a great idea. Forcing military personnel to learn English is contrary to the true principles of diversity. Non-English speaking personnel would enrich the services.

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  100. @Autochthon
    Your ignorance about naval warfare is epic in scope.

    We finally agree.

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    • Replies: @Autochthon
    A broken clock is correct twice daily. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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  101. dfordoom says: • Website
    @anonymous
    The new British carrier Queen Elizabeth will be larger than the De Gaulle

    The new British carrier Queen Elizabeth will be larger than the De Gaulle

    And will offer the British the exciting prospect of being able to participate more fully in all the wars that the neocons have planned.

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  102. dfordoom says: • Website
    @Steve Sailer
    Handicap ramps have been a boon for mothers pushing baby carriages. It seems kind of dumb not to have a strategy of directly making things better for mothers with babies though ...

    Handicap ramps have been a boon for mothers pushing baby carriages.

    So do the new US carriers have wheelchair ramps? It would be incredibly discriminatory if they don’t. How do the disabled sailors get around the ships? I assume the Navy does have disabled sailors? If not I foresee lawsuits.

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  103. whoever says: • Website
    @res
    I guess there is never enough clean water, but that seems odd given this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desalination#Cogeneration

    A typical Supercarrier in the US military uses nuclear power to desalinate 400,000 US gallons (1,500,000 l; 330,000 imp gal) of water per day.[27]
     
    Or is the issue the dirty water?

    Four-hundred thousand gallons of water may seem a lot, but with a complement of 3,184 personnel (with 203 officers); 2,800 aircrew (with 366 officers); and 70 flag (with 25 officers) on a Nimitz-class carrier, that equals 66 gallons of water per person for all fresh water use for everything

    FYI:

    2.8.2.5 Showers and Fresh Water. Fresh water while at sea is precious! The ship’s capability to produce fresh water is limited. The storage capacity of fresh water tanks is also limited. About 20 to 25 gallons per person per day must provide for cooking, drinking, washing, and bathing. The ship generates fresh water by essentially boiling seawater. This is an expensive undertaking. Navy showers (30-second washdown and 60-second rinse off) should be the norm. Follow this procedure to take a Navy shower:

    After initially wetting down, shut off the water
    Lather up with the water OFF
    Turn the water back on to rinse only

    If everybody follows these rules, there is plenty of fresh water to go around. If we start getting low on water, we are forced to shut off the supply and no one showers. Here’s some Navy slang: A shower lasting over five minutes is a “Hollywood Shower.” If the ship has to shut off the water it is called “Water Hours.” Report any leaking valve. Adhere strictly to any water-usage hours.

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  104. whoever says: • Website
    @gcochran
    You couldn't defend a carrier against serious opposition 40 years ago.

    You couldn’t defend a carrier against serious opposition 75 years ago.

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  105. Publius says:

    A few years ago, the tailgate fields outside of our massive university football stadium added urinal stalls, and the bathroom lines, which were previously pretty awful, mysteriously disappeared. These stalls are just a massive drum, maybe 3 times the size of a normal porta potty, with five urinals inside.

    A navy ship I would hope has less of the kind of drinking that leads to frequent pee breaks than a college football tailgate, but I think it’s hard to argue against the speed and efficiency of men’s urinals.

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  106. @gcochran
    You couldn't defend a carrier against serious opposition 40 years ago.

    This statement is patently false about the situation forty years ago, and more so today.

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  107. @Jack Hanson
    We finally agree.

    A broken clock is correct twice daily. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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  108. whoever says: • Website
    @ATX Hipster
    And Glenn Miller.

    30,000 seems incredibly high. How many of those deaths were war-related? What percentage of Americans had even flown on a plane by the end of WWII?

    30,000 seems incredibly high.

    Actually, it’s not.
    From the abstract of EARNING THEIR WINGS: ACCIDENTS AND FATALITIES IN THE UNITED STATES ARMY AIR FORCES DURING FLIGHT TRAINING IN WORLD WAR TWO:

    “Over the course of the war, the US Army Air Forces suffered over 54,000 accidents in the continental United States. These accidents accounted for over 15,000 fatalities….”

    Of the 1074 Women’s Air Service Pilots, 38 were killed in crashes.

    Here is an interesting table of AAF accidents and fatalities during the war that breaks down by type and rate as well as total numbers.
    Airplane Accidents in Continental US, By Principal Model of Airplane – Number and Rate: 1942 to 1945

    And here is a list of all US Navy fatalities including aviation related. Note that far more died in accidents than in combat.

    And that’s not including civilian deaths such as Carol Lombard’s and Glenn Miller’s.
    “Wheezer” (Bobby Hutchins) in the Our Gang movie shorts joined the USAAF and died in a mid-air collision during training at Merced Army Airfield in 1945.

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  109. @ben tillman

    In the old baseball parks you would piss against a long piece of communal sheet metal sloppily installed against a wall.
     
    That sounds a lot like Franklin Field in the 1970's. When I got to first grade, the school had trough urinals. No problem. But Franklin Field had a wall you peed on, and it trickled down to a little channel slightly below floor level.

    Crazy Sexy brothel in Frankfurt, FRG had that pissing wall setup with a trickling water pipe flushing down into a drain on the floor, too back in early 70s. Sticky and stinky.

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  110. @Mr. Anon

    Or go Star Trek. No toilets anywhere for anyone.
     
    Maybe they just pissed into the transporters and beamed it out into space.

    Where do you think the organic material came from for the replicator?

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  111. WJ says:
    @Jim Don Bob
    Agree. Iraq was mostly ok after Dubya, but BHO gave it all away by not agreeing to keep 30K troops there.

    And then he bragged about it.

    Iraq was charlie foxtrot waste of blood and treasure the moment we invaded. You can’t put lipstick on that pig anymore. W stabilized by paying the Sunnis not to kill us or the Shiites. When that money went away, it turned back to chaos.

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