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From The Telegraph:

Soaring house prices reduce number of babies born in England

by Sarah Knapton, science editor
12 APRIL 2017 • 4:19PM

Soaring house prices are reducing the number of babies born in England because fewer people can afford their own home and so delay starting a family, a new study suggests.

The European Bank for Reconstruction and Development found that for every 10 per cent increases in house prices, the birth rate falls by 1.3 per cent.

The trend is reversed for people who own their own home, with a 10 per cent house price rise sparking a rise in the number of births by 2.8 per cent. However among renters, the same increase causes a birth rate decline of 4.9 per cent. …

“This may be because the increased wealth of homeowners allows them to start a family, while private renters postpone having kids until they are on the property ladder,” said researcher Dr Cevat Giray Aksoy, who presented the findings at The Royal Economic Society’s annual conference in Bristol.

“Couples put off having children because they aren’t able to afford suitable accommodation.

“These findings support the notion that housing costs exert downward pressure on the fertility outcome of young adults and that there is a connection between getting on the property ladder and building a family.”

According to the Land Registry data, average house prices in England have increased by nearly 290 per cent between 1995 and 2016 – from £67,000 to £232,000 – with some counties experiencing a more than 900 per cent rise in house prices.

So 290% divided by 10 times 1.3% is 37.7%.

The study suggest that young people between 20 and 29 are disproportionately affected by property prices, which could explain why the average age at which mothers have their first child has been gradually creeping up, and is now at 30 years old. Homeowners aged 30 to 44 tend to benefit from the growing wealth in their properties. …

 
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  1. The causality also goes the other way: fewer people are having children so they have more money to spend on housing, increasing demand and prices.

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  2. Most Buy-To-Let amateur landlords insert specific “No Smoking, No Pets, and Definitely No Kids” clauses which combined with “pre-triggered” Section 21 eviction notices (6 months’ tenancies I believe), pretty much snookers would-be breeders of the younger generations who actually bother to work. Kids probably enable security of tenure or something, IDK. So forbidden.

    Sheer folly! If they declared themselves divorced/separated the newly-minted and apotheosised Single Mummy would have the bombdoors of the Welfare State raining down housing, services and cash like there’s no tomorrow (which there ain’t, due to aforementioned Welfare, of course).

    There are entire UK forums dedicated to documenting this societal cancer of literal rentierism.

    Read More
    • Replies: @yaqub the mad scientist
    If they declared themselves divorced/separated the newly-minted and apotheosised Single Mummy would have the bombdoors of the Welfare State raining down housing, services and cash like there’s no tomorrow (which there ain’t, due to aforementioned Welfare, of course)

    Sounds like the Modern British Family.
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  3. anonymous says: • Disclaimer

    Are those stats for white Britons only, or are the diverse affected too?

    Read More
    • Replies: @anon

    Are those stats for white Britons only, or are the diverse affected too?
     
    there's a class element

    middle class of whatever ethnic group are effected more by the house prices

    welfare housing is a complicated mixture but skewed against both natives and least recent immigrants.

    (it's officially by need but if different groups have 1) a higher birth rate or 2) more single mothers or 3) lower moral barriers to defraud welfare then those groups get preference)

    #

    either way it's ultimately caused by mass immigration putting downward pressure on income and upward pressure on housing costs together squeezing disposable income
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  4. Steve,
    Sorry for another OT comment, but I think many readers will be interested in/pleased with this:

    Here are links to images of the document:

    …what the country is now being told by the White House cannot be true

    This is what I’ve been looking for–some forensic evidence that comports with the sensible intuitive notion that Assad was being set up. I hope it doesn’t turn out to be, itself, a hoax.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Opinionator
    Did the WH state categorically that it was sarin gas?
    , @donut
    He seems to be for real . Here is his wikpedia page .

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theodore_Postol

    In this day and age truth is in a constant state of flux .

    , @David Davenport
    Leading CW expert Theodor Postol of MIT just published a 14-page document questioning WH claims that Sarin was dropped from #Syrian AF plane

    The only thing Prof. Postol is an expert in is anti-US military agitating.

    Back when Reagan was Prez, Postol opposed missile defense systems. He posited bogus notions of how decoys and flares were going to fool anti-missile missiles. Postol doesn't seem to have gotten any smarter since then.

    Postol doesn't know much of anything about military affairs, missile, or poison gas. He has a degree in physics, but he's a professor of something-something public policy.

    Btw, I don't think the recent cruise missile bombardment on Syria was a good idea.

    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  5. Anon says: • Disclaimer

    OT/ Something to keep an eye on:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/12/nyregion/judge-dead-hudson-river-sheila-abdus-salaam.html

    I have a feeling we might have a narrative collapse incoming.

    Read More
    • Replies: @biz
    Interesting...

    Was she in league with some criminal syndicate and made a wrong move?
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  6. Wally says:

    I rather seriously doubt that this applies to Muslims & Africans in Britain who will breed anywhere at any time.

    Read More
    • Agree: Nico
    • Replies: @Yak-15
    Which leads to another question - why the f*** are they continuing to have children in Syria? As in, how are there "beautiful babies" for Assad to gas? There has been a 6 yr civil war with mass atrocities. Perhaps it's time Ahmed learned to pull out.
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  7. So 290% divided by 10 times 1.3% is 37.7%.

    It’s genocide.

    Read More
    • Replies: @biz
    That's silly. For a genocide to be happening, a population needs to decline at a rapid rate, not grow at a slower rate than it otherwise would have due to individuals' personal and economic choices.

    Why not just say what is true, which iSteve basically did?

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  8. @Chrisnonymous
    Steve,
    Sorry for another OT comment, but I think many readers will be interested in/pleased with this:

    https://twitter.com/EHSANI22/status/852183604692230144


    Here are links to images of the document:

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C9OQdNCWAAAK2np.jpg

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C9OQdM8XgAIrV5n.jpg

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C9OQdNAXsAEpk4r.jpg

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C9OQdWGXgAABv8U.jpg

    ...what the country is now being told by the White House cannot be true...

     

    This is what I've been looking for--some forensic evidence that comports with the sensible intuitive notion that Assad was being set up. I hope it doesn't turn out to be, itself, a hoax.

    Did the WH state categorically that it was sarin gas?

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  9. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer

    Oh,….and of course there is absolutely no connection whatsoever with New Labour’s policy of abolishing immigration control.

    Read More
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  10. BenKenobi says:

    Despite the diversity and bull-ish, my woman and I are determined to remain in downtown Vancouver and raise a family.

    Rent for a 2 bedroom condo in Yaletown (~800 sq ft) is about 2800/month right now.

    But it’s worth it, to be last of our kind in Elysium.

    Read More
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  11. g2k says:

    The thing to note here is that this trend is quite geographically uneven. With a few notable exceptions, the further north you go from London, the cheaper the property. Houses can be had in Liverpool for around 25k in not absolutely terrible areas. The place is economically depressed though, so not many jobs.

    Unaffordable housing has three main causes; insanely strict zoning laws, increased borrowing capacity and immigration. There’s no political will to do much about this as more electorally significant people are winners from it than losers.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Nico

    Unaffordable housing has three main causes; insanely strict zoning laws, increased borrowing capacity and immigration.
     
    Increased borrowing capacity is also tightly related to the problem of massive trade deficits concentrating economic activity into the FIRE sector in a few well-plugged-in alpha world city cosmopolitan nodes.
    , @anon

    The place is economically depressed though, so not many jobs.

    Unaffordable housing has three main causes; insanely strict zoning laws, increased borrowing capacity and immigration. There’s no political will to do much about this as more electorally significant people are winners from it than losers.
     
    "not many jobs" (caused by off-shoring) makes housing unaffordable too

    "insanely strict zoning laws"
    England is the most densely populated large country in the world. the problem is greedy sociopaths aka the banking mafia,corrupted the political system so bad policies e.g. mass immigration, continue despite the harm being done.

    there's no will to do anything about it because the media won't report on the housing problems because it would destroy their pro-immigration argument - at least as regards people arriving to do jobs that don't pay a middle class salary.
    , @LondonBob
    Immigration and absurdly low interest rates. The green belt is a necessity for maintaining quality of life, no population pressure through immigration and we would have no need for new housing. Already, thanks to the destruction of London's planning laws, nasty new tower blocks of luxury apartments are sprouting up, mostly for purchase of Asian investors. The bubble is now bursting for these, God knows what will happen to them, British people prefer houses, but the damage to London's skyline and environment have been done.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  12. If birth rate demographic trends really bother you all, and you don’t realistically have any global political power in the world, why not just have five+ children yourselves? It won’t solve the problems of the universe, but it will genuinely resolve most of the immediate anxiety, frustration, and bitterness on this issue that you personally experience.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Romanian
    The "why don't you do something about it" reply is not a good retort. First, we don't know the family situation of the people here unless they choose to reveal it. Secondly, if every Sailer reader were to have 5 kids, it would not make a dent in the population situation. What we desire is systemic change. Thirdly, that systemic change will also make it possible for us to have more children (those of us who are in that life stage). It will involve a change in economic patterns, but also in culture.
    , @Anonym
    If birth rate demographic trends really bother you all, and you don’t realistically have any global political power in the world, why not just have five+ children yourselves?

    Who says we aren't? The longer this conflict goes on the more difference it will make.
    , @anon
    inflicting conditions of life intended to destroy in whole or in part a racial, national or religious group
    , @bomag

    why not just have five+ children yourselves
     
    Some of us did, and we are watching the System make it difficult for our kids to start families.
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  13. The UK establishment appears quite comfortable with encouraging maximum immigration, cheap money, flogging as many speculative new build properties to the Chinese middle classes and well-heeled foreigners as possible and rentiering as hard as they can. If poorer British renters are less fecund compared to homeowners then that is another bonus for them.

    As for renters, as far as the establishment is concerned they can do what the poor in other highly stratified societies do I.e. limit their families, emigrate (either elsewhere in the UK or abroad) or live with their parents in multi-generation households which other races like the Italians have been doing ever since the Romans made major cities expensive places to live.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    The English don't like to live with their parents. It appears to be an Anglo-Saxon thing.
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  14. @Ali Choudhury
    The UK establishment appears quite comfortable with encouraging maximum immigration, cheap money, flogging as many speculative new build properties to the Chinese middle classes and well-heeled foreigners as possible and rentiering as hard as they can. If poorer British renters are less fecund compared to homeowners then that is another bonus for them.

    As for renters, as far as the establishment is concerned they can do what the poor in other highly stratified societies do I.e. limit their families, emigrate (either elsewhere in the UK or abroad) or live with their parents in multi-generation households which other races like the Italians have been doing ever since the Romans made major cities expensive places to live.

    The English don’t like to live with their parents. It appears to be an Anglo-Saxon thing.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Paul Walker - Most beautiful man ever...
    "The English don’t like to live with their parents. It appears to be an Anglo-Saxon thing."
    True, to their detriment.
    , @jim jones
    I got away from my family as soon as I could, "Hell is other people"
    , @fitzGetty
    ... but the vibrants do - that is their expansionary success factor ... with state support at every step ...
    , @George
    Actually nobody likes to live with their parents. That is why all those migrants risk death to come to Europe. Living with your parents leads to 'peasant fatalism'.

    Why do parents have extra real estate to house their kids in family 'compounds', like peasants in the middle east. In a free market real estate entrepreneurs would be able to exchange mum and dad's family compound for someplace smaller for mum and dad and maybe a studio or single room occupancy apartment aka flop house for their under-resourced son or daughter. One diversity never discussed is real estate diversity, having multiple sized living conditions in the same area. The only permissible use of single room occupancy real estate is college dormitories.

    Barbizon Hotel for Women
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barbizon_63

    Once upon a time when men dressing like women was considered funny.
    http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0080202/

    By the time Bussom Buddies was on the air, the whole concept of the Barbizon was falling into disfavor.
    , @The Millennial Falcon
    Mother-in-law suites are increasingly a thing. Real estate prices eventually crack even the Anglo-Saxons.
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  15. Nico says:
    @g2k
    The thing to note here is that this trend is quite geographically uneven. With a few notable exceptions, the further north you go from London, the cheaper the property. Houses can be had in Liverpool for around 25k in not absolutely terrible areas. The place is economically depressed though, so not many jobs.

    Unaffordable housing has three main causes; insanely strict zoning laws, increased borrowing capacity and immigration. There's no political will to do much about this as more electorally significant people are winners from it than losers.

    Unaffordable housing has three main causes; insanely strict zoning laws, increased borrowing capacity and immigration.

    Increased borrowing capacity is also tightly related to the problem of massive trade deficits concentrating economic activity into the FIRE sector in a few well-plugged-in alpha world city cosmopolitan nodes.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Philip Owen
    Yep. But it's FIRRE Retail, Real Estate.

    Basically, oil income has financialized the UK economy since 1979.

    , @unpc downunder
    Good point, there seems to be a strong correlation between industrial decline and high real estate prices in big cities. Berlin is significantly cheaper than London, and all the Anglo countries have chronic trade deficits and very high real estate prices in the prosperous big cities.
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  16. Clyde says:

    Just want to say so many provocative, on the money iSteve posts coming at us. Springtime, more sun and the sap is flowing.

    Read More
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  17. NickG says:

    Soaring house prices are reducing the number of babies born in England because fewer people can afford their own home and so delay starting a family, a new study suggests.

    I’m a 56 year old Brit and I could have told you this over 30 years ago.

    Meantime the UK is sucking in 1% of its population as immigrants per year, over 0.5 percent net, putting pressure on housing stock, schools and public services.

    It’s as if there is co-ordinated effort to replace the indigenous population – as if there is some kind of great replacement.

    Read More
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  18. @Steve Sailer
    The English don't like to live with their parents. It appears to be an Anglo-Saxon thing.

    “The English don’t like to live with their parents. It appears to be an Anglo-Saxon thing.”
    True, to their detriment.

    Read More
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  19. Romanian says: • Website
    @Massimo Heitor
    If birth rate demographic trends really bother you all, and you don't realistically have any global political power in the world, why not just have five+ children yourselves? It won't solve the problems of the universe, but it will genuinely resolve most of the immediate anxiety, frustration, and bitterness on this issue that you personally experience.

    The “why don’t you do something about it” reply is not a good retort. First, we don’t know the family situation of the people here unless they choose to reveal it. Secondly, if every Sailer reader were to have 5 kids, it would not make a dent in the population situation. What we desire is systemic change. Thirdly, that systemic change will also make it possible for us to have more children (those of us who are in that life stage). It will involve a change in economic patterns, but also in culture.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Massimo Heitor

    Secondly, if every Sailer reader were to have 5 kids, it would not make a dent in the population situation. What we desire is systemic change.
     
    Of course. You want to change global trends, but realistically, you can't. Having five kids won't change that, but it will probably make you personally feel a lot better about the world.
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  20. Next2Nowt says:

    Don’t worry: birth-rates remain healthily high among the most vibrant communities:

    A baby boom among immigrant families is driving the population to a record high, government figures will show this week. The figures, from the Office for National Statistics, will reveal that Britain’s highest birth rates are in the Pakistani and Bangladeshi communities, both predominantly Muslim. The birth rate among women born in Pakistan but living in the UK is three times higher than that among British-born women, the figures will show.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1571969/Britains-highest-birth-rates-among-migrants.html

    That was ten years ago, but the good news hasn’t stopped in the interim. Britain’s future looks as good as France’s and Germany’s and only slightly less good than Sweden’s.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Philip Owen
    And yet Brexiteers voted to keep out the Poles and let in the Indians (the price of a trade deal).
    , @LondonBob
    Well yes the West in general will have to get busy living or get busy dying in the next few years.
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  21. @Nico

    Unaffordable housing has three main causes; insanely strict zoning laws, increased borrowing capacity and immigration.
     
    Increased borrowing capacity is also tightly related to the problem of massive trade deficits concentrating economic activity into the FIRE sector in a few well-plugged-in alpha world city cosmopolitan nodes.

    Yep. But it’s FIRRE Retail, Real Estate.

    Basically, oil income has financialized the UK economy since 1979.

    Read More
    • Replies: @anon

    oil income has financialized the UK economy since 1979
     
    nope

    like the US, after the collapse of the Soviet Union the banking mafia in the UK off-shored everything useful and productive as part of their looting so FIRRE is all that's left.
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  22. @Next2Nowt
    Don't worry: birth-rates remain healthily high among the most vibrant communities:


    A baby boom among immigrant families is driving the population to a record high, government figures will show this week. The figures, from the Office for National Statistics, will reveal that Britain's highest birth rates are in the Pakistani and Bangladeshi communities, both predominantly Muslim. The birth rate among women born in Pakistan but living in the UK is three times higher than that among British-born women, the figures will show.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1571969/Britains-highest-birth-rates-among-migrants.html

     

    That was ten years ago, but the good news hasn't stopped in the interim. Britain's future looks as good as France's and Germany's and only slightly less good than Sweden's.

    And yet Brexiteers voted to keep out the Poles and let in the Indians (the price of a trade deal).

    Read More
    • Replies: @anon
    Brexiteers voted to stop mass immigration.
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  23. jim jones says:
    @Steve Sailer
    The English don't like to live with their parents. It appears to be an Anglo-Saxon thing.

    I got away from my family as soon as I could, “Hell is other people”

    Read More
    • Replies: @Paul Walker - Most beautiful man ever...
    "I got away from my family as soon as I could, “Hell is other people”
    Huh. Ich liebe meine Familie,"other people" are hell. :)
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  24. fitzGetty says:

    … no doubt the big, state supported immigrant families in Rochdale, Rotherham etcetera shrug off these challenges and, supported, expand and flourish … ( as told to do ) …

    Read More
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  25. fitzGetty says:
    @Steve Sailer
    The English don't like to live with their parents. It appears to be an Anglo-Saxon thing.

    … but the vibrants do – that is their expansionary success factor … with state support at every step …

    Read More
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  26. SFG says:
    Read More
    • Replies: @Yak-15
    It was the Flight 93 election and it appears as though we are going to crash. Let's be serious - America first has been completely discarded with attacks on Syria and a focus on North Korea.

    What happened to the idea of using our resources to build the US? Where are the deportations and the programs designed to encourage middle class fertility? What happened to forcing NATO to pay its fair share and reconciling with Russia?

    It is all out the window and I am left with the slightly redeeming aspect that Trump has not mentioned white privilege - yet.
    , @Jack Hanson
    You should have linked to another WAPO guarantee about how Trump "supports amnesty" and completed the trifecta of total BS stories from Bezo Blog.

    Most of you learned nothing from the election.

    , @Chrisnonymous
    I saw an article the other day that was quoting Trump saying, essentially, "everyone should remember that Bannon joined my campaign late, and I was the chief strategist." I knew then that Bannon was sunk. It's just a matter of time.

    I suspect there is a jealousy aspect, but I also suspect Trump can't distinguish well between doing the right thing and doing the thing for which most of his advisors praise him. If Trump is telling himself, "my presidency is going to be huuuge. Everyone says I am doing a great job," but Bannon implies he isn't, well, goodbye Steve.
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  27. @jim jones
    I got away from my family as soon as I could, "Hell is other people"

    “I got away from my family as soon as I could, “Hell is other people”
    Huh. Ich liebe meine Familie,”other people” are hell. :)

    Read More
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  28. Anonym says:
    @Massimo Heitor
    If birth rate demographic trends really bother you all, and you don't realistically have any global political power in the world, why not just have five+ children yourselves? It won't solve the problems of the universe, but it will genuinely resolve most of the immediate anxiety, frustration, and bitterness on this issue that you personally experience.

    If birth rate demographic trends really bother you all, and you don’t realistically have any global political power in the world, why not just have five+ children yourselves?

    Who says we aren’t? The longer this conflict goes on the more difference it will make.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  29. George says:
    @Steve Sailer
    The English don't like to live with their parents. It appears to be an Anglo-Saxon thing.

    Actually nobody likes to live with their parents. That is why all those migrants risk death to come to Europe. Living with your parents leads to ‘peasant fatalism’.

    Why do parents have extra real estate to house their kids in family ‘compounds’, like peasants in the middle east. In a free market real estate entrepreneurs would be able to exchange mum and dad’s family compound for someplace smaller for mum and dad and maybe a studio or single room occupancy apartment aka flop house for their under-resourced son or daughter. One diversity never discussed is real estate diversity, having multiple sized living conditions in the same area. The only permissible use of single room occupancy real estate is college dormitories.

    Barbizon Hotel for Women

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barbizon_63

    Once upon a time when men dressing like women was considered funny.

    http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0080202/

    By the time Bussom Buddies was on the air, the whole concept of the Barbizon was falling into disfavor.

    Read More
    • Replies: @grapesoda

    Actually nobody likes to live with their parents. That is why all those migrants risk death to come to Europe.
     
    Yeah but moving out isn't that much better. You get your own kitchen, your own bedroom, your own bathroom, and your own... ring around the collar. :(
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  30. Andy says:

    But Africans live in dirt poor huts and this does not prevent them from having zillions of babies

    Read More
    • Replies: @Buffalo Joe
    Andy, So true, but you don't need a line of credit or an equity loan to get more sticks and mud for your addition and man cave.
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  31. Yak-15 says:
    @Wally
    I rather seriously doubt that this applies to Muslims & Africans in Britain who will breed anywhere at any time.

    Which leads to another question – why the f*** are they continuing to have children in Syria? As in, how are there “beautiful babies” for Assad to gas? There has been a 6 yr civil war with mass atrocities. Perhaps it’s time Ahmed learned to pull out.

    Read More
    • Replies: @bomag

    ...why the f*** are they continuing to have children in Syria?
     
    Yeah, all these "hell holes" we are told about with no food or water seem to end up with plenty of people and transport to visit us.
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  32. Yak-15 says:
    @SFG
    OT: Trump seems to be turning on Bannon, if you believe WaPo...

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/inside-bannons-struggle-from-shadow-president-to-trumps-marked-man/2017/04/12/1f5aabc0-1f99-11e7-ad74-3a742a6e93a7_story.html

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/trump-takes-a-centrist-tack-on-economic-policy-abandoning-campaign-pledges/2017/04/12/95376192-1fc3-11e7-be2a-3a1fb24d4671_story.html

    It was the Flight 93 election and it appears as though we are going to crash. Let’s be serious – America first has been completely discarded with attacks on Syria and a focus on North Korea.

    What happened to the idea of using our resources to build the US? Where are the deportations and the programs designed to encourage middle class fertility? What happened to forcing NATO to pay its fair share and reconciling with Russia?

    It is all out the window and I am left with the slightly redeeming aspect that Trump has not mentioned white privilege – yet.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Jack Hanson
    If you think an AG Sessions speech on the SWB would have happened under anyone else than you're smoking rock.

    Lol yet again at the blackpill eeyore crowd being wrong for the nth time.
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  33. Help please. How does the increase value of your home make you wealthier in disposable income? I bought my house 35 years ago for $70k and it is now worth $280k minimum , so my net worth went up, but I spend money to pay my mortgage, insurance, taxes (still do) maintainence,etc. So, as a homeowner you don’t wind up with more money to spend and start a family. But if you are settled in you might be more inclined to start a family.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Marina
    There are basically three kinds of residential, non-investment homebuyers, in rough order of age:

    1. First timers. A rising market is completely unhelpful.
    2. People upgrading. Gains in price in their starter home are entirely eaten up by the price increases in their new home. At best, it's a wash.
    3. People downsizing. Gains in value of their current home are freed up by purchasing a new home, often in a cheaper market with inferior job prospects as they are aging and will no longer need to work much, if at all.

    Which group is overrepresented in the media, both as producers and consumers, and which is overrepresented among our leaders? A booming housing market also gooses the equity markets and, again, who owns most of the stock that isn't in institutional hands and needs to sell it soonish to fund their old age?

    A secondary answer is that many businesses are started by remortgaging a house, so a rising housing market is a good source of investment capital for most middle-class would-be entrepreneurs.
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  34. anon says: • Disclaimer
    @anonymous
    Are those stats for white Britons only, or are the diverse affected too?

    Are those stats for white Britons only, or are the diverse affected too?

    there’s a class element

    middle class of whatever ethnic group are effected more by the house prices

    welfare housing is a complicated mixture but skewed against both natives and least recent immigrants.

    (it’s officially by need but if different groups have 1) a higher birth rate or 2) more single mothers or 3) lower moral barriers to defraud welfare then those groups get preference)

    #

    either way it’s ultimately caused by mass immigration putting downward pressure on income and upward pressure on housing costs together squeezing disposable income

    Read More
    • Replies: @The Alarmist
    The local councils are making plenty of cheap or free housing available to immigrants and refugeees, and they are breeding like rabbits. BTW, look at the welfare map of the UK, and the heaviest concentration is in Birmingham ... go to Birmingham and you would think you were in Peshawar Pakistan before you even leave the airport.
    , @cynthia curran
    Also, low interest rates for some long causes housing prices to rise. Its happening in the US even with areas with little immigration. What real estate people do with low interest rates is jack up prices more than if the interest rates were higher, Great Britain has had low interest rates for years. Also, having a lot of kids is no solution either since it makes labor costs low one reason that Central Americans pour into the US since there are less jobs available for a young population. Another reason that generation M is very politically left in the US like the older baby boomers were a lot of job competition. Gen-x a smaller generation didn't have the job competition. A better idea is not tell every white person to moved to Texas because its cheaper than California but to moved to rural Idaho since their is still a lot of open spaces and its sparely populated. Rural areas more than urban and suburban areas are better for more kids.
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  35. @Expletive Deleted
    Most Buy-To-Let amateur landlords insert specific "No Smoking, No Pets, and Definitely No Kids" clauses which combined with "pre-triggered" Section 21 eviction notices (6 months' tenancies I believe), pretty much snookers would-be breeders of the younger generations who actually bother to work. Kids probably enable security of tenure or something, IDK. So forbidden.

    Sheer folly! If they declared themselves divorced/separated the newly-minted and apotheosised Single Mummy would have the bombdoors of the Welfare State raining down housing, services and cash like there's no tomorrow (which there ain't, due to aforementioned Welfare, of course).

    There are entire UK forums dedicated to documenting this societal cancer of literal rentierism.

    If they declared themselves divorced/separated the newly-minted and apotheosised Single Mummy would have the bombdoors of the Welfare State raining down housing, services and cash like there’s no tomorrow (which there ain’t, due to aforementioned Welfare, of course)

    Sounds like the Modern British Family.

    Read More
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  36. JerseyGuy says:

    I have a few British neighbors. They look at the affordability and inexpensiveness of living in the Northeast of America the way we in the Northeast look at the South or Texas. They said that living in Britain is just too expensiveness for most people, including upper middle class families.

    My wife and I watch House Hunters on HGTV. Whenever they do an international episode in Britain, you will definitely notice at how small and to be frank, crappy, most of the houses are in the country. I’m not trying to be disrespectful. It’s just how it is. Just go on Google Streetview and see what most of the housing developments look like. It’s just a way, way too crowded country.

    Biggest factors: 1.) Immigration 2.) Building regulations (especially the Green Belts around all major metro areas) 3.) Financialization of the economy. To be fair, the building regulations factor is probably even bigger than immigration.

    Read More
    • Replies: @anon

    To be fair, the building regulations factor is probably even bigger than immigration.
     
    Obviously not as the building regs have been in place for decades.
    , @prosa123
    British people don't have the same fetish for absurdly large McMansions that Americans do.
    , @TelfoedJohn
    All land is owned by the crown in the UK. On top of that there is freehold, which is as close to owning as anything, and leasehold which you lease the property for a set number of years (99 years is fairly standard).

    In practice a lot of land is inherited by aristocrats. Descended from Normans. The Duke of Westminster is the richest man under 30 and owns the most expensive areas of London.
    , @Charles Erwin Wilson
    We need to import the conservative Brits to America to have families here. There should be a non-governmental way to do it. What is that way?
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  37. anon says: • Disclaimer
    @g2k
    The thing to note here is that this trend is quite geographically uneven. With a few notable exceptions, the further north you go from London, the cheaper the property. Houses can be had in Liverpool for around 25k in not absolutely terrible areas. The place is economically depressed though, so not many jobs.

    Unaffordable housing has three main causes; insanely strict zoning laws, increased borrowing capacity and immigration. There's no political will to do much about this as more electorally significant people are winners from it than losers.

    The place is economically depressed though, so not many jobs.

    Unaffordable housing has three main causes; insanely strict zoning laws, increased borrowing capacity and immigration. There’s no political will to do much about this as more electorally significant people are winners from it than losers.

    “not many jobs” (caused by off-shoring) makes housing unaffordable too

    “insanely strict zoning laws”
    England is the most densely populated large country in the world. the problem is greedy sociopaths aka the banking mafia,corrupted the political system so bad policies e.g. mass immigration, continue despite the harm being done.

    there’s no will to do anything about it because the media won’t report on the housing problems because it would destroy their pro-immigration argument – at least as regards people arriving to do jobs that don’t pay a middle class salary.

    Read More
    • Replies: @CC
    Strict zoning/land use regulation really is a problem in England though. The inner 23 wards of Tokyo average more housing starts in a year than the entire UK, and Japan has a shrinking population.
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  38. anon says: • Disclaimer
    @Massimo Heitor
    If birth rate demographic trends really bother you all, and you don't realistically have any global political power in the world, why not just have five+ children yourselves? It won't solve the problems of the universe, but it will genuinely resolve most of the immediate anxiety, frustration, and bitterness on this issue that you personally experience.

    inflicting conditions of life intended to destroy in whole or in part a racial, national or religious group

    Read More
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  39. anon says: • Disclaimer
    @Philip Owen
    Yep. But it's FIRRE Retail, Real Estate.

    Basically, oil income has financialized the UK economy since 1979.

    oil income has financialized the UK economy since 1979

    nope

    like the US, after the collapse of the Soviet Union the banking mafia in the UK off-shored everything useful and productive as part of their looting so FIRRE is all that’s left.

    Read More
    • Replies: @ben tillman

    nope

    like the US, after the collapse of the Soviet Union the banking mafia in the UK off-shored everything useful and productive as part of their looting so FIRRE is all that’s left.
     
    But the wealth looted by the FIRE comes from oil. That's the source of almost all wealth.
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  40. anon says: • Disclaimer
    @Philip Owen
    And yet Brexiteers voted to keep out the Poles and let in the Indians (the price of a trade deal).

    Brexiteers voted to stop mass immigration.

    Read More
    • Replies: @englishmike
    Philip Owen says: "And yet Brexiteers voted to keep out the Poles and let in the Indians (the price of a trade deal)."
    Anon says: "Brexiteers voted to stop mass immigration."

    Brexiteers voted to leave the "European Union" because that was the question on the ballot paper. The British electorate has never been invited to vote on the issue of mass immigration.
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  41. Okie says:

    This was a driver of brexit too,I’d bet. The competition from both Poles and Punjabis probably caused a lot of the rise. The renter class wanted them in to increase rents, but thankfully them and the immigrants were not a majority yet.

    Read More
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  42. “average house prices in England have increased by nearly 290 per cent between 1995 and 2016 – from £67,000 to £232,000″
    How do you figure? An increase from 67 to 232 is an increase of (232 – 67)/67 = 165/67 = 2.46 = 246 percent. Is this “nearly” 290 percent?

    And pardon my obtuseness, but what is the relevance of the remark that “290% divided by 10 times 1.3% is 37.7%”? It’s not even true: (290%/10)*1.3% = (29%)*1.3% = (0.29)*1.3% = 0.377%.

    Read More
    • Replies: @anonymous
    Sailer is referring back to this passage in the quoted article:

    "...for every 10 per cent increase in house prices, the birth rate falls by 1.3 per cent."

    So a 290% increase in house prices would lead to a 37.7% drop in the birth rate.

    Vinteuil
    , @Anonymous
    "And pardon my obtuseness, but what is the relevance of the remark that “290% divided by 10 times 1.3% is 37.7%”? It’s not even true: (290%/10)*1.3% = (29%)*1.3% = (0.29)*1.3% = 0.377%."

    He is referring to this:

    "The European Bank for Reconstruction and Development found that for every 10 per cent increases in house prices, the birth rate falls by 1.3 per cent."

    So 290/10 = 29 10% increases assuming they are not supposed to be compounded (ambiguous from the wording of the story). 29 * 1.3% = 37.7% fall in birth rate. If the 10% increments are compounded, though, it's only 11.2 10% increases.
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  43. George says:

    So, south asian immigrants are having trouble forming families? Does not seem to be the case.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Formerly CARealist
    What is this "South Asia" stuff? Does it mean Indians? From now on let's use the country we're talking about.

    Which South Asians are the Brits teeming with besides the Indians and Pakistanis that we know about already?

    I don't want any more people moving to the US, but I like Japanese and Chinese Americans a lot. Korean Americans too. Indian Americans are more difficult because they seem to hate America. What's up with that? Filipinos are cool too, but we have enough.
    , @anon
    (anecdotal) south Asians who've been in the UK a while and got into the professional middle class are feeling similar effects (apparently)

    those running their own businesses and willing to defraud the welfare/tax system and using illegals as slave labor are doing fine

    refugees are getting priority and the 1st generation will have dozens of kids

    those already in the underclass do slightly better on housing than the native underclass cos racisms but not great because the situation is so bad

    (cf. white death, i'm predicting a big spike in suicide in the UK as homelessness becomes epidemic)
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  44. Whiskey says: • Website

    Trumps kids are his kids. They could land him in jail and he’d still back them. They are his kids. Bannon is just some guy.

    Nothing will change in the West BC elites and single women want pop replacement.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Charles Erwin Wilson
    Your disgusting pessimism would never have admitted Trump's election. Let us face facts, you are a masochist, whose self-inflicted wounds somehow give you comfort. But you are too intelligent to take your assertions to their logical conclusion. If you were not possessed of sufficient intelligence, you would not be posting here.

    Repent Whiskey, and forgive. She wasn't and isn't worth your soul.
    , @Marty T
    The white single women betraying their people are bad, but the real enemy is the white MALE traitors and white knights. Women will do what they can get away with. They're not naturally loyal. The women often don't act right because the men are not united in making sure they do.
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  45. @Romanian
    The "why don't you do something about it" reply is not a good retort. First, we don't know the family situation of the people here unless they choose to reveal it. Secondly, if every Sailer reader were to have 5 kids, it would not make a dent in the population situation. What we desire is systemic change. Thirdly, that systemic change will also make it possible for us to have more children (those of us who are in that life stage). It will involve a change in economic patterns, but also in culture.

    Secondly, if every Sailer reader were to have 5 kids, it would not make a dent in the population situation. What we desire is systemic change.

    Of course. You want to change global trends, but realistically, you can’t. Having five kids won’t change that, but it will probably make you personally feel a lot better about the world.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Romanian
    Yes, but I am not the only one who determines whether I have so many children. It would be a lot easier if such systemic change were to start to happen:
    - women might want to settle down earlier, rather than living the urbane life, especially in my social circle;
    - they might want bigger families. I might be foolishly wrong, but, from what I've heard from the girls, there's a trend in Romania where doctors get women to have C-sections because the procedures are a lot easier, whereas having the C-sections limits you to 2, 3 children tops before the risks become too great for subsequent births, and neither can you give birth naturally any more. So the doctors themselves are setting us up for normalizing low fertility;
    - not my case, but young people would find it easier to buy a home. Actually, my case too, I would have to switch to a bigger place;
    - the neighborhoods and culture would become friendlier for larger sized families. I can only imagine the nightmare of herding 5 kids of various ages anywhere. And neither will people be very considerate, unlike a more fertility friendly place;
    - the state would be friendlier to the larger family, along with various private actors, like the Church, making it easier as well;
    - ultimately, culture matters. If people feel like a big family is desirable, they will find it easier to have it or rationalize away the difficulties like they do irresponsible shopping. Right now, you're basically screaming low socio-economic status by having more than 2,3 kids.

    There's a lot that goes into this.
    , @Thea
    Personally, it makes me more anxious for their future.
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  46. Erik L says:

    Anyone else think it’s nuts that you can buy a home in a country you aren’t a citizen of? Okay maybe that’s not too nuts but surely we can agree there is no reason to allow someone living in China to buy homes in California.

    The second thing I feel certain must be the root cause of the housing mess is printing too much money

    Read More
    • Replies: @Formerly CARealist
    Yes, borrowing money at low interest rates makes people take on more debt than they can manage.

    Three of my neighbors got themselves into mortgages that they really can't get out of. Even now the homes aren't worth what they borrowed back in 2007. So? They rent because they can't afford to sell. Now my neighborhood is filled with renters that don't really care about the homes. Tons of people living in these homes in order to pay the rent, tons of cars.

    500k homes filled with semi-trashy renters. Lovely, as the Brits would say.

    How much do I have to pay for a NorCal home to get away from renters?
    , @anon
    one cause of printing too much money* is a side effect of the banking mafia's off shoring of the economy

    it lead to the US having a massive trade deficit and you have to trade something for the imports - the US trades dollars

    which is one of the causes of house price rises* as China has all these dollars but the US doesn't produce enough to sell - so China are trading their worthless dollars for the only thing the US has left - land and property

    thanks to the banking mafia the US is paying for their iphones in acres

    (*there are others)
    , @EriK
    Try buying a house in Mexico.
    , @Triumph104
    Australia lets foreigner investors buy newly built properties. If a foreigner resides in Australia they can buy an older home to personally live in and have to sell once they no longer reside in Australia.

    Loans cause money to be printed, not the other way around.


    Most of the money in our economy is created by banks, in the form of bank deposits – the numbers that appear in your account. Banks create new money whenever they make loans. 97% of the money in the economy today is created by banks, whilst just 3% is created by the government. This short video explains:
     
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=01IusDeSPE4

    http://positivemoney.org/how-money-works/how-banks-create-money/

    , @cynthia curran
    Agreed. Chinese I think are also a factor in high cost of housing in UK.
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  47. Yak-15 says:

    Isn’t unaffordable family formation the original phenomenon that send millions of ambitious Anglos to America, Australia, Canada and New Zealand?

    Read More
    • Replies: @anon
    yes - a benign (or at least neutral) ruling class created an industrial revolution which led to a very rapid and massive population explosion which outstripped the growing prosperity and led to great poverty

    this time a wholly malign ruling class off-shored the economy and opened the borders either out of extreme greed or stealth warfare leading to a rapid and massive population explosion which is racing ahead of declining prosperity and leading to great poverty

    pretty similar
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  48. Marina says:
    @Buffalo Joe
    Help please. How does the increase value of your home make you wealthier in disposable income? I bought my house 35 years ago for $70k and it is now worth $280k minimum , so my net worth went up, but I spend money to pay my mortgage, insurance, taxes (still do) maintainence,etc. So, as a homeowner you don't wind up with more money to spend and start a family. But if you are settled in you might be more inclined to start a family.

    There are basically three kinds of residential, non-investment homebuyers, in rough order of age:

    1. First timers. A rising market is completely unhelpful.
    2. People upgrading. Gains in price in their starter home are entirely eaten up by the price increases in their new home. At best, it’s a wash.
    3. People downsizing. Gains in value of their current home are freed up by purchasing a new home, often in a cheaper market with inferior job prospects as they are aging and will no longer need to work much, if at all.

    Which group is overrepresented in the media, both as producers and consumers, and which is overrepresented among our leaders? A booming housing market also gooses the equity markets and, again, who owns most of the stock that isn’t in institutional hands and needs to sell it soonish to fund their old age?

    A secondary answer is that many businesses are started by remortgaging a house, so a rising housing market is a good source of investment capital for most middle-class would-be entrepreneurs.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Buffalo Joe
    Marina, thank you for the reply, but last week you dumped on me for saying it is financially wise to wait until one is about thirty to start a family. You said you started earlier, but only because of extensive help from your family, including the deposit to rent an apartment and the use of a parent's basement as your home. So I think without the help of your family you couldn't afford children, as the article states.
    , @RadicalCenter
    Mortgaging the house may be a common way of getting funds to start a business, but it's not a wise one.
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  49. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer

    Steve, more focus on Kushner please. This stuff is outrageous:

    http://www.lifezette.com/polizette/jared-kushners-bad-deals/

    Jared’s real business is the business of losing $$$ apparently.

    Notice how Jared’s “skills” only attract bidders inside his family tree. THERE ARE ZERO BIDS FOR JARED’S SKILLS FROM THE PUBLIC. There never have been. And this is the guy Trump has literally controlling the White House now.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Daniel H
    Wow, what a boneheaded move. Despite it's fame (666 building, top of the sixes restaurant/club at the top), because of it's age (built 1957), I don't think that it can draw top rent.

    How the hell can one enter a real estate transaction knowing the rent will in no way come close to covering the loan? Dumb.

    Reminds me of the Canadian financier Robert Campbeau who ruined a fortuned and a lifetime's work by way overpaying for Bloomingdales in the 1980s. Great businesses, but he so overpaid that he was bankrupt within months.

    Takes a special kind of hubris or stupidity to lose that much money so needlessly.
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  50. LondonBob says:
    @g2k
    The thing to note here is that this trend is quite geographically uneven. With a few notable exceptions, the further north you go from London, the cheaper the property. Houses can be had in Liverpool for around 25k in not absolutely terrible areas. The place is economically depressed though, so not many jobs.

    Unaffordable housing has three main causes; insanely strict zoning laws, increased borrowing capacity and immigration. There's no political will to do much about this as more electorally significant people are winners from it than losers.

    Immigration and absurdly low interest rates. The green belt is a necessity for maintaining quality of life, no population pressure through immigration and we would have no need for new housing. Already, thanks to the destruction of London’s planning laws, nasty new tower blocks of luxury apartments are sprouting up, mostly for purchase of Asian investors. The bubble is now bursting for these, God knows what will happen to them, British people prefer houses, but the damage to London’s skyline and environment have been done.

    Read More
    • Replies: @JerseyGuy
    From my understanding, there is a drastic change in Metro Britain areas from urban to rural due to the Green Belts. In America, the change seems to be more organic, although we have the space here to have healthy amounts of urban, suburban and rural. The Green Belts seem like a great idea for a country with a stable population, especially since the British countryside is so beautiful. In the current globalist environment, it seems to have been a disaster for working class and middle class housing affordability. Of course, in the current environment, if Britain were to allow American style sprawl, 90% of the island would be covered.

    I need to find the article but I recall reading that Britain (specifically England) was the only developed country to have the average size of a newly built house decrease over the past 30 years. Crazy!
    , @g2k
    The green belt is mostly intensive farming, subsidised by taxpayers. I anyways used to be quite ashamed of the London skyline and it's lack of skyscrapers, and most of them have replaced postwar sovok crap. The very low interest rates drive consumer spending and prevent a non trivial number of foreclosures, so they're likely here to stay. They also make pensions a waste of time, which incentivises oldies to invest in btl.

    British people might well prefer houses to flats, they also probably prefer Lamborghinis over Fords. It doesn't mean they'll get them: without inherited wealth, you're screwed in London and the south East, and a flat in a nasty tower​ block is preferable to a Victorian terrace bodged into a kommunalka/hmo.
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  51. LondonBob says:
    @Next2Nowt
    Don't worry: birth-rates remain healthily high among the most vibrant communities:


    A baby boom among immigrant families is driving the population to a record high, government figures will show this week. The figures, from the Office for National Statistics, will reveal that Britain's highest birth rates are in the Pakistani and Bangladeshi communities, both predominantly Muslim. The birth rate among women born in Pakistan but living in the UK is three times higher than that among British-born women, the figures will show.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1571969/Britains-highest-birth-rates-among-migrants.html

     

    That was ten years ago, but the good news hasn't stopped in the interim. Britain's future looks as good as France's and Germany's and only slightly less good than Sweden's.

    Well yes the West in general will have to get busy living or get busy dying in the next few years.

    Read More
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  52. @SFG
    OT: Trump seems to be turning on Bannon, if you believe WaPo...

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/inside-bannons-struggle-from-shadow-president-to-trumps-marked-man/2017/04/12/1f5aabc0-1f99-11e7-ad74-3a742a6e93a7_story.html

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/trump-takes-a-centrist-tack-on-economic-policy-abandoning-campaign-pledges/2017/04/12/95376192-1fc3-11e7-be2a-3a1fb24d4671_story.html

    You should have linked to another WAPO guarantee about how Trump “supports amnesty” and completed the trifecta of total BS stories from Bezo Blog.

    Most of you learned nothing from the election.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Trump didn't "cuck" then because he was listening to Bannon and Miller, not Kushner and Cohn.
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  53. @Yak-15
    It was the Flight 93 election and it appears as though we are going to crash. Let's be serious - America first has been completely discarded with attacks on Syria and a focus on North Korea.

    What happened to the idea of using our resources to build the US? Where are the deportations and the programs designed to encourage middle class fertility? What happened to forcing NATO to pay its fair share and reconciling with Russia?

    It is all out the window and I am left with the slightly redeeming aspect that Trump has not mentioned white privilege - yet.

    If you think an AG Sessions speech on the SWB would have happened under anyone else than you’re smoking rock.

    Lol yet again at the blackpill eeyore crowd being wrong for the nth time.

    Read More
    • Replies: @ben tillman

    If you think an AG Sessions speech on the SWB would have happened under anyone else than you’re smoking rock.
     
    SWB?
    , @Yak-15
    Sessions spoke? Holy Obama, we are saved!

    Meanwhile Bannon is off the NSC, we inch closer to war with Russia over a non-core interest and North Korea becomes the next zone of intervention.
    , @anon

    Lol yet again at the blackpill eeyore crowd being wrong for the nth time.
     
    You need to work on your people-reading skills. A lot of commenters here aren't pro-Trump - they're just slightly more paranoid about Muslim immigration than they are about white people.
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  54. The Anglosphere — Britain, Canada, the United States, New Zealand and Australia — all have financial systems reliant on expanding debt and price inflation. Debt contraction, either by default or lack of new loans, will lead to an economic implosion. That is exactly what needs to happen to allow young people a chance at the magical AFFORDABLE FAMILY FORMATION.

    England is packed with people, it is one of the most densely populated parts of Europe, but the Bank of England and the English ruling class keep pushing mass immigration in order to keep away the chance of real estate price deflation. The increasing cost of housing is preventing the young from getting married and having children.

    The bankers are combining with greedy English real estate owner wankers to keep the real estate bubble inflated. Financialization and good old fashioned property owner greed rule the day.

    The English Patriots have to do battle with the City of London. The City is laundering money for shady foreigners through real estate deals. Sounds to me like Jebby Bush laundering drug money in Miami through commercial real estate deals.

    It is evil for older generations to thwart the ability of young people to marry and have babies. The older generations in England and the United States are deliberately destroying the future generations of their own nations by their vile greed.

    The answer is for the young to declare all government debt to be ODIOUS and refuse to pay it. A declaration of debt repudiation on ODIOUS debt combined with an immigration moratorium would pop the real estate bubble in England and the United States. 10 percent interest rates from the Federal Reserve Bank and Bank of England would do the trick as well.

    Many smart people have concluded that the monetary extremism of the Federal Reserve Bank and the Bank of England can’t be managed much longer. There will have to be an unwind of their bloated balance sheets and/or a mass money printing event to maintain political cohesion when the financial implosion begins. Remember, we seem to be on a 8 or 9 year asset bubble pattern that is due for implosion soon.

    CHEERS!

    Read More
    • Replies: @27 year old
    Please explain how 10% interest on a mortgage helps me afford to have more kids? This sounds totally insane
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  55. anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @Mark Spahn (West Seneca, NY)
    "average house prices in England have increased by nearly 290 per cent between 1995 and 2016 – from £67,000 to £232,000"
    How do you figure? An increase from 67 to 232 is an increase of (232 - 67)/67 = 165/67 = 2.46 = 246 percent. Is this "nearly" 290 percent?

    And pardon my obtuseness, but what is the relevance of the remark that "290% divided by 10 times 1.3% is 37.7%"? It's not even true: (290%/10)*1.3% = (29%)*1.3% = (0.29)*1.3% = 0.377%.

    Sailer is referring back to this passage in the quoted article:

    “…for every 10 per cent increase in house prices, the birth rate falls by 1.3 per cent.”

    So a 290% increase in house prices would lead to a 37.7% drop in the birth rate.

    Vinteuil

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    • Replies: @Mark Spahn (West Seneca, NY)
    Sailer is referring back to this passage in the quoted article:
    “…for every 10 per cent increase in house prices, the birth rate falls by 1.3 per cent.”
    So a 290% increase in house prices would lead to a 37.7% drop in the birth rate.

    Thasnks, Vinteuil. That clears it up.
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  56. @SFG
    OT: Trump seems to be turning on Bannon, if you believe WaPo...

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/inside-bannons-struggle-from-shadow-president-to-trumps-marked-man/2017/04/12/1f5aabc0-1f99-11e7-ad74-3a742a6e93a7_story.html

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/trump-takes-a-centrist-tack-on-economic-policy-abandoning-campaign-pledges/2017/04/12/95376192-1fc3-11e7-be2a-3a1fb24d4671_story.html

    I saw an article the other day that was quoting Trump saying, essentially, “everyone should remember that Bannon joined my campaign late, and I was the chief strategist.” I knew then that Bannon was sunk. It’s just a matter of time.

    I suspect there is a jealousy aspect, but I also suspect Trump can’t distinguish well between doing the right thing and doing the thing for which most of his advisors praise him. If Trump is telling himself, “my presidency is going to be huuuge. Everyone says I am doing a great job,” but Bannon implies he isn’t, well, goodbye Steve.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Jack Hanson
    Been hearing this nonsense since August 2016. And yet it never comes to pass.

    But. Blackpilled eeyores gonna eeyore.
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  57. Bill P says:

    Eternally rising real estate prices are a wealth transfer from the young and fertile to the old who are done with having kids. For whatever reason, it has become national policy all over the developed world to keep this scheme going.

    Read More
    • Replies: @anon
    - mass immigration
    - the West effectively buying Chinese manufacturing goods with land and property
    - the banking mafia's credit bubble from 1998-2008

    are the three main reasons for house prices being too high.

    On top of that the 2008 crash left the banks with trillions in toxic debt in housing and even with all the bailouts, QE and ZIRP they still would have gone bust if the house prices had fully crashed.

    The banking mafia kept house prices high by doubling down on immigration thus increasing demand.
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  58. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @Mark Spahn (West Seneca, NY)
    "average house prices in England have increased by nearly 290 per cent between 1995 and 2016 – from £67,000 to £232,000"
    How do you figure? An increase from 67 to 232 is an increase of (232 - 67)/67 = 165/67 = 2.46 = 246 percent. Is this "nearly" 290 percent?

    And pardon my obtuseness, but what is the relevance of the remark that "290% divided by 10 times 1.3% is 37.7%"? It's not even true: (290%/10)*1.3% = (29%)*1.3% = (0.29)*1.3% = 0.377%.

    “And pardon my obtuseness, but what is the relevance of the remark that “290% divided by 10 times 1.3% is 37.7%”? It’s not even true: (290%/10)*1.3% = (29%)*1.3% = (0.29)*1.3% = 0.377%.”

    He is referring to this:

    “The European Bank for Reconstruction and Development found that for every 10 per cent increases in house prices, the birth rate falls by 1.3 per cent.”

    So 290/10 = 29 10% increases assuming they are not supposed to be compounded (ambiguous from the wording of the story). 29 * 1.3% = 37.7% fall in birth rate. If the 10% increments are compounded, though, it’s only 11.2 10% increases.

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    • Replies: @Art Deco
    I think that's likely referring to real increases, or to increases in excess of changes in nominal incomes. I think nominal income per capita has since 1995 increased by just shy of 90%, so the increase in home prices has been about double that. I think the formula would be

    (1-.013)^(ln(2)/ln(1.1)), which equals 0.9, or a 10% drop. If it's referring to real increases in prices, the formula might be (1-.013)^(ln(2.56)/ln(1.1)), which equals 0.88, or a 12% drop.
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  59. JerseyGuy says:
    @LondonBob
    Immigration and absurdly low interest rates. The green belt is a necessity for maintaining quality of life, no population pressure through immigration and we would have no need for new housing. Already, thanks to the destruction of London's planning laws, nasty new tower blocks of luxury apartments are sprouting up, mostly for purchase of Asian investors. The bubble is now bursting for these, God knows what will happen to them, British people prefer houses, but the damage to London's skyline and environment have been done.

    From my understanding, there is a drastic change in Metro Britain areas from urban to rural due to the Green Belts. In America, the change seems to be more organic, although we have the space here to have healthy amounts of urban, suburban and rural. The Green Belts seem like a great idea for a country with a stable population, especially since the British countryside is so beautiful. In the current globalist environment, it seems to have been a disaster for working class and middle class housing affordability. Of course, in the current environment, if Britain were to allow American style sprawl, 90% of the island would be covered.

    I need to find the article but I recall reading that Britain (specifically England) was the only developed country to have the average size of a newly built house decrease over the past 30 years. Crazy!

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    • Replies: @anon
    Since 1998 when the political-media class opened the borders England has become the most densely populated large country in the world.

    The media hide it by always using the density of UK as a whole (as Scotland is huge but low density).
    , @AnotherDad

    The Green Belts seem like a great idea for a country with a stable population, especially since the British countryside is so beautiful. In the current globalist environment, it seems to have been a disaster for working class and middle class housing affordability.
     
    They've been there for 100 years. The green belts aren't the least responsible for this recent fast run up in housing prices.

    You could open all the green belts to development now and that land would be eaten up by American style sprawl by 5 or 10 years of Britain's mass immigration fueled growth.

    All you would have accomplished is destroying this wonderful heritage and nosedived the livability of Britain's cities ... and be right where you were.

    No this is entirely driven by the insanity of mass immigration. If you throw your nation open to the world--let anyone and everyone from the world over into a tiny country like England--then obviously housing will be unaffordable. England has sold the birthright of its children. (As we in America are doing lest I appear smug.)
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  60. CC says:
    @anon

    The place is economically depressed though, so not many jobs.

    Unaffordable housing has three main causes; insanely strict zoning laws, increased borrowing capacity and immigration. There’s no political will to do much about this as more electorally significant people are winners from it than losers.
     
    "not many jobs" (caused by off-shoring) makes housing unaffordable too

    "insanely strict zoning laws"
    England is the most densely populated large country in the world. the problem is greedy sociopaths aka the banking mafia,corrupted the political system so bad policies e.g. mass immigration, continue despite the harm being done.

    there's no will to do anything about it because the media won't report on the housing problems because it would destroy their pro-immigration argument - at least as regards people arriving to do jobs that don't pay a middle class salary.

    Strict zoning/land use regulation really is a problem in England though. The inner 23 wards of Tokyo average more housing starts in a year than the entire UK, and Japan has a shrinking population.

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    • Replies: @anon
    Japan isn't infested with a parasitic banking mafia - yet.

    The banking mafia needed to keep house prices high while they were offloading their toxic mortgage debt onto the public through QE. They did it by importing millions of extra people to create excess demand.

    The problem is mass immigration.
    , @LondonBob
    Jap housing isn't built to last, earthquake land so understandable, how many homes are over 100 years old? We do a lot of conversions and expanding existing residences.

    Frankly restrictive planning laws mean we face the consequences of mass immigration rather than delaying it sooner, hopefully we then act on it early enough.

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  61. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @Jack Hanson
    You should have linked to another WAPO guarantee about how Trump "supports amnesty" and completed the trifecta of total BS stories from Bezo Blog.

    Most of you learned nothing from the election.

    Trump didn’t “cuck” then because he was listening to Bannon and Miller, not Kushner and Cohn.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Jack Hanson
    Trump isn't cucking now, but the tendency of the blackpilled eeyores to believe whatever confirms their "we're doomed!" mindset is just sad.
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  62. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer

    I suppose this is where things are heading:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-39568458

    Landlord adverts posted online ‘target young for sex’

    Young, vulnerable people are being targeted with online classified adverts offering accommodation in exchange for sex, a BBC investigation has found.

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  63. @Chrisnonymous
    I saw an article the other day that was quoting Trump saying, essentially, "everyone should remember that Bannon joined my campaign late, and I was the chief strategist." I knew then that Bannon was sunk. It's just a matter of time.

    I suspect there is a jealousy aspect, but I also suspect Trump can't distinguish well between doing the right thing and doing the thing for which most of his advisors praise him. If Trump is telling himself, "my presidency is going to be huuuge. Everyone says I am doing a great job," but Bannon implies he isn't, well, goodbye Steve.

    Been hearing this nonsense since August 2016. And yet it never comes to pass.

    But. Blackpilled eeyores gonna eeyore.

    Read More
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  64. Mick and The Bride toured London a few years ago with a gracious Brit lady leading the tour. She spoke about the high cost of housing in London – she attributed it to rich immigrants buying up everything, including blocks of buildings they won’t be living in -and she said that her two daughters (in their 30s) had to live with her (and her hubby) because they can’t afford anything even though the two daughters work full time in London

    She spoke abut how she and her husband (she was prolly in her 60s) were able to buy a house (big/long mortgage; thanks usury) but young english people can’t afford that anymore.

    She is prolly a racist who thinks London is for the Brits but with the Mahometan invasion, London is now for the bird-brained

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  65. biz says:
    @Opinionator

    So 290% divided by 10 times 1.3% is 37.7%.
     
    It's genocide.

    That’s silly. For a genocide to be happening, a population needs to decline at a rapid rate, not grow at a slower rate than it otherwise would have due to individuals’ personal and economic choices.

    Why not just say what is true, which iSteve basically did?

    Read More
    • Replies: @anon

    For a genocide to be happening
     
    genocide: inflicting conditions of life intended to destroy in whole or in part a racial, national or religious group
    , @Opinionator
    Whether the drop pulls the fertility rate below replacement or reduces it relative to a higher-fertility-rate rival population, it still amounts to genocide.


    This is genocide.
    , @J.Ross
    Genocide is extremely clearly defined as setting policies to bring about such a result regardless of their efficacy. This, from the inventor of the term. It was defined this way to be able to stop it.
    , @Wilkey
    For a genocide to be happening, a population needs to decline at a rapid rate, not grow at a slower rate than it otherwise would have due to individuals’ personal and economic choices.

    The TFR in the UK is 1.81 children per women. That includes subgroups - Pakistanis, Bangladeshis, Somalis, etc - who breed at far higher rates. Look only at native British women and the TFR is probably 1.6 or less. That is a lot lower than the 2.1 TFR required for simple population replacement. That means the native-born British population is shrinking.

    Genocide, rapidly or slowly, is still genocide, and that's what is happening all across the West.
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  66. biz says:
    @Anon
    OT/ Something to keep an eye on:
    http://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/12/nyregion/judge-dead-hudson-river-sheila-abdus-salaam.html

    I have a feeling we might have a narrative collapse incoming.

    Interesting…

    Was she in league with some criminal syndicate and made a wrong move?

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    • Replies: @JerseyJeffersonian
    Only the Democrats. Maybe she got too jiggy with property rights or something. You know how those Democrat bigwigs are about those sorts of things. Touchy, touchy. Don't meddle with the results of their favored social construct, Meritocracy. Poor people are for votes, not having a say.
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  67. Cindy says:

    This is so silly. You can rent and have babies. There’s no reason to postpone parenthood until you’ve finally achieved what most people can’t achieve until their best childbearing and most energetic years are half gone. We started out “poor”, and rented for 12 years of parenthood. Life went on, we set goals, we met them, we bought a house. We were (and are) very unfashionable, but our kids are happy and healthy. And, most importantly, we’re still young enough to enjoy them. Housing is a detail, not the purpose of life.

    Read More
    • Agree: RadicalCenter
    • Replies: @No
    It's the number of children Cindy.

    Big House = More Kids
    , @Marina
    During the housing bubble, I remember reading somewhere that the English speaking peoples all over the world have a weird fetish for home-ownership compared to, say, the Germans or Dutch. I think moving out and establishing a separate household, often including ownership, has been working for the English for an awfully long time. It's a weird quirk, from a global standpoint, sure, but what does a nation exist for if NOT to serve the weird quirks of a people? It's not like a tsunami came along, destroyed half the island's housing stock and caused an unavoidable spike in prices: this is the result of deliberate public policy choices on the part of the English leadership. If the English want to own houses before having babies and this has been part of their norms for a long time, the state should be protecting/preserving that, not undermining it.
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  68. @George
    So, south asian immigrants are having trouble forming families? Does not seem to be the case.

    What is this “South Asia” stuff? Does it mean Indians? From now on let’s use the country we’re talking about.

    Which South Asians are the Brits teeming with besides the Indians and Pakistanis that we know about already?

    I don’t want any more people moving to the US, but I like Japanese and Chinese Americans a lot. Korean Americans too. Indian Americans are more difficult because they seem to hate America. What’s up with that? Filipinos are cool too, but we have enough.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Altai

    Which South Asians are the Brits teeming with besides the Indians and Pakistanis that we know about already?
     
    Bengalis, Sri Lankans (Both Sinhalese and Tamil) and many Afghans could be classified as Central South Asian. All have healthy and growing populations across Britain.
    , @RadicalCenter
    Question is, do those nice Chinese, Korean, and Japanese "Americans" like you and yours? Will they give our kids --who are not Chinese, Korean, or Japanese -- a fair shake when hiring employees for their businesses? Are they organizing on a tribal/racial basis to gain political and economic power at our direct expense?

    Don't be naïve, man.
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  69. According to the Land Registry data, average house prices in England have increased by nearly 290 per cent between 1995 and 2016 – from £67,000 to £232,000

    Actually, 246%.

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  70. @Erik L
    Anyone else think it's nuts that you can buy a home in a country you aren't a citizen of? Okay maybe that's not too nuts but surely we can agree there is no reason to allow someone living in China to buy homes in California.

    The second thing I feel certain must be the root cause of the housing mess is printing too much money

    Yes, borrowing money at low interest rates makes people take on more debt than they can manage.

    Three of my neighbors got themselves into mortgages that they really can’t get out of. Even now the homes aren’t worth what they borrowed back in 2007. So? They rent because they can’t afford to sell. Now my neighborhood is filled with renters that don’t really care about the homes. Tons of people living in these homes in order to pay the rent, tons of cars.

    500k homes filled with semi-trashy renters. Lovely, as the Brits would say.

    How much do I have to pay for a NorCal home to get away from renters?

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    • Replies: @Erik L
    Palo Alto is full of renters, me among them. I am super classy so maybe you would like it here. The dilapidated house near me recently sold for 5 million bucks
    , @Triumph104
    The Chinese are buying homes NorCal homes as investments and leaving them vacant. You won't have trashy renters next door, but you will probably need to volunteer and do the neighbor's yard maintenance for free if you don't want to look at the overgrown weeds.

    https://youtu.be/SBjXUBMkkE8

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  71. anon says: • Disclaimer
    @JerseyGuy
    I have a few British neighbors. They look at the affordability and inexpensiveness of living in the Northeast of America the way we in the Northeast look at the South or Texas. They said that living in Britain is just too expensiveness for most people, including upper middle class families.

    My wife and I watch House Hunters on HGTV. Whenever they do an international episode in Britain, you will definitely notice at how small and to be frank, crappy, most of the houses are in the country. I'm not trying to be disrespectful. It's just how it is. Just go on Google Streetview and see what most of the housing developments look like. It's just a way, way too crowded country.

    Biggest factors: 1.) Immigration 2.) Building regulations (especially the Green Belts around all major metro areas) 3.) Financialization of the economy. To be fair, the building regulations factor is probably even bigger than immigration.

    To be fair, the building regulations factor is probably even bigger than immigration.

    Obviously not as the building regs have been in place for decades.

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  72. anon says: • Disclaimer
    @George
    So, south asian immigrants are having trouble forming families? Does not seem to be the case.

    (anecdotal) south Asians who’ve been in the UK a while and got into the professional middle class are feeling similar effects (apparently)

    those running their own businesses and willing to defraud the welfare/tax system and using illegals as slave labor are doing fine

    refugees are getting priority and the 1st generation will have dozens of kids

    those already in the underclass do slightly better on housing than the native underclass cos racisms but not great because the situation is so bad

    (cf. white death, i’m predicting a big spike in suicide in the UK as homelessness becomes epidemic)

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anonymous Nephew
    It appears that Brit immigration services are (by design) incompetent. Until a year or two back they only recorded who'd come into the country, not who left.

    In the news at present is a little tale of one consequence. A Polish guy, homeless IIRC, is currently accused of raping and murdering a Sikh lady walking back from her hotel job in London.

    Turns out said lady and husband turned up here on a tourist visa years ago and just stayed - don't ask me how they got the National Insurance numbers (like SS numbers) they needed to work, but there are loads of their coethnics in that part of London. If she'd not been murdered, they'd have stayed off the radar - how many millions more are there, if it's that easy?

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  73. @anon

    oil income has financialized the UK economy since 1979
     
    nope

    like the US, after the collapse of the Soviet Union the banking mafia in the UK off-shored everything useful and productive as part of their looting so FIRRE is all that's left.

    nope

    like the US, after the collapse of the Soviet Union the banking mafia in the UK off-shored everything useful and productive as part of their looting so FIRRE is all that’s left.

    But the wealth looted by the FIRE comes from oil. That’s the source of almost all wealth.

    Read More
    • Replies: @anon
    they off-shored the industry and profited from the resulting trade deficit - same as the US

    the oil paid for the resulting mass unemployment
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  74. @Jack Hanson
    If you think an AG Sessions speech on the SWB would have happened under anyone else than you're smoking rock.

    Lol yet again at the blackpill eeyore crowd being wrong for the nth time.

    If you think an AG Sessions speech on the SWB would have happened under anyone else than you’re smoking rock.

    SWB?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Jack Hanson
    Southwest Border.

    I can't speak for Federale (the other guy here who's in immigration enforcement), but the changes we are seeing behind the scenes in my neck of the woods are huge.

    Its why I shrug my shoulders when the eeyore crowd breathlessly posts another story from Bezo Blog: my own experiences are telling me otherwise.

    Just the fact we are doing "plain reading" of the law vs. Giving NTAs for 2 years down the road because someone says "I fear the gangs" is huge. AG Sessions dusting off felony 1326 is wild. Never thought Id see that again with any regularity.
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  75. anon says: • Disclaimer
    @Erik L
    Anyone else think it's nuts that you can buy a home in a country you aren't a citizen of? Okay maybe that's not too nuts but surely we can agree there is no reason to allow someone living in China to buy homes in California.

    The second thing I feel certain must be the root cause of the housing mess is printing too much money

    one cause of printing too much money* is a side effect of the banking mafia’s off shoring of the economy

    it lead to the US having a massive trade deficit and you have to trade something for the imports – the US trades dollars

    which is one of the causes of house price rises* as China has all these dollars but the US doesn’t produce enough to sell – so China are trading their worthless dollars for the only thing the US has left – land and property

    thanks to the banking mafia the US is paying for their iphones in acres

    (*there are others)

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    • Replies: @Erik L
    I agree with a lot of that except I can't see offshoring the economy as a primary goal of the "banking mafia". As of the early 1980s free trade was a rising fashion and we just got consumer inflation under control for the first time since we went off Bretton Woods. I'd say the money printing is because it caused effects that were beneficial to the people in office and any consequences would be realized long after they left office. As long as it didn't show up in consumer inflation what was the incentive to stop?
    , @Wilkey
    thanks to the banking mafia the US is paying for their iphones in acres

    When the Puritans settled New England they would sell a single rifle to the Indians for dozens of acres of land. The Puritans got land. The Indians got objects that were easily produced at a rate they could not fathom. Kinda like Americans and our iPhones.

    There is one difference, however: just because a Chinese man buys a home here that doesn't mean we have to ever let him live in it. We don't even have to grant him a visa to visit it, if we choose not to. It can stay empty or be used purely as rental property.
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  76. anon says: • Disclaimer
    @Yak-15
    Isn't unaffordable family formation the original phenomenon that send millions of ambitious Anglos to America, Australia, Canada and New Zealand?

    yes – a benign (or at least neutral) ruling class created an industrial revolution which led to a very rapid and massive population explosion which outstripped the growing prosperity and led to great poverty

    this time a wholly malign ruling class off-shored the economy and opened the borders either out of extreme greed or stealth warfare leading to a rapid and massive population explosion which is racing ahead of declining prosperity and leading to great poverty

    pretty similar

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    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Overseas British migration was spurred by land clearances in England and Scotland by the ruling class before the industrial revolution. The ruling class had selfish motives for the clearances.
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  77. anon says: • Disclaimer
    @Bill P
    Eternally rising real estate prices are a wealth transfer from the young and fertile to the old who are done with having kids. For whatever reason, it has become national policy all over the developed world to keep this scheme going.

    - mass immigration
    - the West effectively buying Chinese manufacturing goods with land and property
    - the banking mafia’s credit bubble from 1998-2008

    are the three main reasons for house prices being too high.

    On top of that the 2008 crash left the banks with trillions in toxic debt in housing and even with all the bailouts, QE and ZIRP they still would have gone bust if the house prices had fully crashed.

    The banking mafia kept house prices high by doubling down on immigration thus increasing demand.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    On top of that the 2008 crash left the banks with trillions in toxic debt in housing and even with all the bailouts, QE and ZIRP they still would have gone bust if the house prices had fully crashed.

    The banking mafia kept house prices high by doubling down on immigration thus increasing demand.


    So did the banking mafia screw up or was it intentional?
    , @g2k
    Prices were kept high post 2008 by slashing interest rates which prevented a cascade of foreclosures. Mortgage lending criteria was simultaneously tightened an relaxed since then, which made life easy for existing homeowners, but very unpleasant for first time buyers, who were unable to get a mortgage and forced into renting. Since then rent has gone through the roof, preventing people saving for a deposit. Having said that, a bit of millennial bashing is kind of justified: I was waking though Manchester a few months ago and houses are still quite cheap there: Victorian terraces for £45k+ , but "young professionals" in corporate jobs who'd been relocated from London were paying almost London-like rents on them, madness!
    , @Bill P
    But it's happening in China, too. Probably India as well. Russia for sure.

    The Chinese govt. intervened when Hong Kong's real estate market tanked after the Asian crisis and took measures to prop it up. There's something about high housing costs that contemporary governments all over the developed and developing world really like. Maybe an economist here can explain it to me, because I personally think houses are essentially money pits and, except for when they're used to raise children, nonproductive.
    , @Daniel Chieh
    Also add the rise of two-income households which significantly inflated household prices around the 70s. The bubble has been kept high with easy credit since then, and I think, is part of the overall issues involving declining real income.
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  78. anon says: • Disclaimer
    @JerseyGuy
    From my understanding, there is a drastic change in Metro Britain areas from urban to rural due to the Green Belts. In America, the change seems to be more organic, although we have the space here to have healthy amounts of urban, suburban and rural. The Green Belts seem like a great idea for a country with a stable population, especially since the British countryside is so beautiful. In the current globalist environment, it seems to have been a disaster for working class and middle class housing affordability. Of course, in the current environment, if Britain were to allow American style sprawl, 90% of the island would be covered.

    I need to find the article but I recall reading that Britain (specifically England) was the only developed country to have the average size of a newly built house decrease over the past 30 years. Crazy!

    Since 1998 when the political-media class opened the borders England has become the most densely populated large country in the world.

    The media hide it by always using the density of UK as a whole (as Scotland is huge but low density).

    Read More
    • Agree: Charles Pewitt
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  79. prosa123 says: • Website
    @JerseyGuy
    I have a few British neighbors. They look at the affordability and inexpensiveness of living in the Northeast of America the way we in the Northeast look at the South or Texas. They said that living in Britain is just too expensiveness for most people, including upper middle class families.

    My wife and I watch House Hunters on HGTV. Whenever they do an international episode in Britain, you will definitely notice at how small and to be frank, crappy, most of the houses are in the country. I'm not trying to be disrespectful. It's just how it is. Just go on Google Streetview and see what most of the housing developments look like. It's just a way, way too crowded country.

    Biggest factors: 1.) Immigration 2.) Building regulations (especially the Green Belts around all major metro areas) 3.) Financialization of the economy. To be fair, the building regulations factor is probably even bigger than immigration.

    British people don’t have the same fetish for absurdly large McMansions that Americans do.

    Read More
    • Replies: @anon
    there's no way of knowing that because of the difference in land prices
    , @JerseyGuy
    I completely agree. However, housing prices are still way, way too high relative to median incomes in Britain. I know alot of British ex-pats (who don't live in 4,000 square foot McMansions) and they all said that high housing prices dramatically decrease the quality of life in Britain.
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  80. El Dato says:

    Meanwhile in the UK:

    https://www.rt.com/uk/384600-christian-syrians-refugees-discrimination/

    “Politically correct officials institutionally biased against Christian refugees, says ex-archbishop “

    Read More
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  81. Romanian says: • Website
    @Massimo Heitor

    Secondly, if every Sailer reader were to have 5 kids, it would not make a dent in the population situation. What we desire is systemic change.
     
    Of course. You want to change global trends, but realistically, you can't. Having five kids won't change that, but it will probably make you personally feel a lot better about the world.

    Yes, but I am not the only one who determines whether I have so many children. It would be a lot easier if such systemic change were to start to happen:
    - women might want to settle down earlier, rather than living the urbane life, especially in my social circle;
    - they might want bigger families. I might be foolishly wrong, but, from what I’ve heard from the girls, there’s a trend in Romania where doctors get women to have C-sections because the procedures are a lot easier, whereas having the C-sections limits you to 2, 3 children tops before the risks become too great for subsequent births, and neither can you give birth naturally any more. So the doctors themselves are setting us up for normalizing low fertility;
    - not my case, but young people would find it easier to buy a home. Actually, my case too, I would have to switch to a bigger place;
    - the neighborhoods and culture would become friendlier for larger sized families. I can only imagine the nightmare of herding 5 kids of various ages anywhere. And neither will people be very considerate, unlike a more fertility friendly place;
    - the state would be friendlier to the larger family, along with various private actors, like the Church, making it easier as well;
    - ultimately, culture matters. If people feel like a big family is desirable, they will find it easier to have it or rationalize away the difficulties like they do irresponsible shopping. Right now, you’re basically screaming low socio-economic status by having more than 2,3 kids.

    There’s a lot that goes into this.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Massimo Heitor
    You compiled a long list of excuses to justify your failure to have lots of kids.

    Turn that list around to a list of options for success.

    After you succeed in having kids yourself, then in your later years focus on social engineering of larger society.
    , @Daniel Chieh
    No man is an island. Something which I think that libertarians often forget.
    , @Marina
    I don't now about Romania, but a lifetime limit of 3 c sections is absolutely not the case in the US any more. The trend in obstetrics has been toward transferring more of the risk to the mother over the infant during L+D, which means more c sections. I had a c with my first because the baby's heart rate dropped with every contraction. Now the baby might have been fine, but there was some small chance of brain damage due to oxygen deprivation. How much risk would you take on to avoid a c section, if your own child's future hung in the balance? Anyway, my OB says 6 is now doable, and he's done up to 10 on one woman, but beyond 6 you have to have gotten really lucky in how you heal.

    The bigger problem I see in America is:
    1. You can't do current middle class parenting norms beyond 3 kids.
    2. Outside of religious subcultures, motherhood is low status. People will do all sorts of nutty and illogical things to gain status.
    , @Opinionator
    What systemic changes do you seek?
    , @AnotherGuessModel
    Greece has one of the highest rates of c-sections in the world, and the reason is 1) doctors are paid considerably more for them than for vaginal births, whether via public or private sector 2) laziness in attending to women for many hours of labor, the natural labor process being devalued in Greek medicine 3) being so overworked due to staffing shortages that c-sections are the only way to see all your patients and not break down from exhaustion.

    No children yet, but I have a good handful of firsthand accounts from family and friends that during an even healthy pregnancy right up to labor, the prospective mothers were informed that a c-section was necessary due to some health problem - often not even hours and hours into labor, mind you, but shortly into it. And what is the mother going to do, refuse? Go against the doctor's authority, potentially jeapardize her baby's health or life, when she's in her most vulnerable physical and mental state? Granted, there are many pregnancies where c-sections are advisable or even necessary. But 6 in 10 Greek mothers getting a c-section, there's something terribly corrupt going on. Could any of this apply to Romania?

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  82. @Charles Pewitt
    The Anglosphere -- Britain, Canada, the United States, New Zealand and Australia -- all have financial systems reliant on expanding debt and price inflation. Debt contraction, either by default or lack of new loans, will lead to an economic implosion. That is exactly what needs to happen to allow young people a chance at the magical AFFORDABLE FAMILY FORMATION.

    England is packed with people, it is one of the most densely populated parts of Europe, but the Bank of England and the English ruling class keep pushing mass immigration in order to keep away the chance of real estate price deflation. The increasing cost of housing is preventing the young from getting married and having children.

    The bankers are combining with greedy English real estate owner wankers to keep the real estate bubble inflated. Financialization and good old fashioned property owner greed rule the day.

    The English Patriots have to do battle with the City of London. The City is laundering money for shady foreigners through real estate deals. Sounds to me like Jebby Bush laundering drug money in Miami through commercial real estate deals.

    It is evil for older generations to thwart the ability of young people to marry and have babies. The older generations in England and the United States are deliberately destroying the future generations of their own nations by their vile greed.

    The answer is for the young to declare all government debt to be ODIOUS and refuse to pay it. A declaration of debt repudiation on ODIOUS debt combined with an immigration moratorium would pop the real estate bubble in England and the United States. 10 percent interest rates from the Federal Reserve Bank and Bank of England would do the trick as well.

    Many smart people have concluded that the monetary extremism of the Federal Reserve Bank and the Bank of England can't be managed much longer. There will have to be an unwind of their bloated balance sheets and/or a mass money printing event to maintain political cohesion when the financial implosion begins. Remember, we seem to be on a 8 or 9 year asset bubble pattern that is due for implosion soon.

    CHEERS!

    Please explain how 10% interest on a mortgage helps me afford to have more kids? This sounds totally insane

    Read More
    • Replies: @Charles Pewitt
    10 percent interest rates from the Federal Reserve Bank will completely implode the global financial system. There will be conflict within and between nations if that happened. The resultant release of "animal spirits" inspired by the conflict will cause a baby boom. The oppressive millstone of inter-generational debt will be gone; newly formed governments will put in place policies that reward and encourage young European Christians to make babies.

    The English used to wade through blood as a hobby. That is why many of us with English ancestry are in the United States. This spirit can be reborn and rejuvenated.

    Globalization is dead; but the globalized ruling class won't let it drop.

    It is slightly mad; but as the saying goes...mad dogs and Englishmen.
    , @Charles Pewitt
    https://twitter.com/RudyHavenstein/status/731160092272300032

    It is mad to call for 10 percent federal funds rate -- but madder still is what Fed Chairman Paul Volker got it to in 1981. Volcker got it to 22 percent in 1981.

    What I am saying is that the global financial system is beyond reform. It must be imploded. Think big; think in civilizational terms; debt and demography are combining to crush the young people in European Christian nation-states.

    Zero Interest Rate Policy Signals The End Of Globalization
    , @g2k
    Because low interest rates act as an accelerant to house price growth by lowering monthly payments and increasing peoples' borrowing capacity.
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  83. Art Deco says:
    @Anonymous
    "And pardon my obtuseness, but what is the relevance of the remark that “290% divided by 10 times 1.3% is 37.7%”? It’s not even true: (290%/10)*1.3% = (29%)*1.3% = (0.29)*1.3% = 0.377%."

    He is referring to this:

    "The European Bank for Reconstruction and Development found that for every 10 per cent increases in house prices, the birth rate falls by 1.3 per cent."

    So 290/10 = 29 10% increases assuming they are not supposed to be compounded (ambiguous from the wording of the story). 29 * 1.3% = 37.7% fall in birth rate. If the 10% increments are compounded, though, it's only 11.2 10% increases.

    I think that’s likely referring to real increases, or to increases in excess of changes in nominal incomes. I think nominal income per capita has since 1995 increased by just shy of 90%, so the increase in home prices has been about double that. I think the formula would be

    (1-.013)^(ln(2)/ln(1.1)), which equals 0.9, or a 10% drop. If it’s referring to real increases in prices, the formula might be (1-.013)^(ln(2.56)/ln(1.1)), which equals 0.88, or a 12% drop.

    Read More
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  84. Yak-15 says:
    @Jack Hanson
    If you think an AG Sessions speech on the SWB would have happened under anyone else than you're smoking rock.

    Lol yet again at the blackpill eeyore crowd being wrong for the nth time.

    Sessions spoke? Holy Obama, we are saved!

    Meanwhile Bannon is off the NSC, we inch closer to war with Russia over a non-core interest and North Korea becomes the next zone of intervention.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Jack Hanson
    Yet Bannon still attends meetings on the NSC and Trump is moving to head off a regional war in Asia.

    When you're done hyperventilating about nothing, maybe tell me how Trump can't beat Clinton, LMBO.
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  85. Sigh.
    Another article on the pre-meditated, continuing decline and continuing fall of Britain.

    At least I have happy memories of the U.K. from lengthy visits between 1977 and 1992.
    A representative memory of that different, and much better time, I have a photo from the days a tourist like me could walk up close to the front door of 10 Downing and snap a pic.

    The U.K. was not broken, it did not need to be fixed by mass replacement.

    England, Scotland, Wales – they were all so beautiful. The indigenous people of each land were so nice.
    Sigh.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Art Deco
    The U.K. was not broken, it did not need to be fixed by mass replacement.

    During the period you make reference to, the country was suffering from sclerotic labor markets with unemployment rates stuck for years in the double-digits. You also had some wretched industrial disputes and a season of rioting.

    PBS has always been a conduit for British television and the material they were importing at the time (documentaries, dramas, comedy, &c) was suffused with narratives of decay. Films like High Hopes and comedy serials like Butterflies would be examples.
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  86. anon says: • Disclaimer
    @Jack Hanson
    If you think an AG Sessions speech on the SWB would have happened under anyone else than you're smoking rock.

    Lol yet again at the blackpill eeyore crowd being wrong for the nth time.

    Lol yet again at the blackpill eeyore crowd being wrong for the nth time.

    You need to work on your people-reading skills. A lot of commenters here aren’t pro-Trump – they’re just slightly more paranoid about Muslim immigration than they are about white people.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Jack Hanson
    I think you need to take your own advice about reading comprehension.
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  87. anon says: • Disclaimer
    @prosa123
    British people don't have the same fetish for absurdly large McMansions that Americans do.

    there’s no way of knowing that because of the difference in land prices

    Read More
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  88. Erik L says:
    @anon
    one cause of printing too much money* is a side effect of the banking mafia's off shoring of the economy

    it lead to the US having a massive trade deficit and you have to trade something for the imports - the US trades dollars

    which is one of the causes of house price rises* as China has all these dollars but the US doesn't produce enough to sell - so China are trading their worthless dollars for the only thing the US has left - land and property

    thanks to the banking mafia the US is paying for their iphones in acres

    (*there are others)

    I agree with a lot of that except I can’t see offshoring the economy as a primary goal of the “banking mafia”. As of the early 1980s free trade was a rising fashion and we just got consumer inflation under control for the first time since we went off Bretton Woods. I’d say the money printing is because it caused effects that were beneficial to the people in office and any consequences would be realized long after they left office. As long as it didn’t show up in consumer inflation what was the incentive to stop?

    Read More
    • Replies: @anon

    I agree with a lot of that except I can’t see offshoring the economy as a primary goal of the “banking mafia”.
     
    by moving manufacturing industry off-shore and then selling the products back to the domestic market they could arbitrage labor costs - pay eastern wages and sell at western prices

    but only because the resulting trade deficit was paid for in debt and the slow leeching of wealth

    now we're in the end game that slow leeching of wealth is becoming more obvious as China etc buys up land and property by the armful
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  89. Erik L says:
    @Formerly CARealist
    Yes, borrowing money at low interest rates makes people take on more debt than they can manage.

    Three of my neighbors got themselves into mortgages that they really can't get out of. Even now the homes aren't worth what they borrowed back in 2007. So? They rent because they can't afford to sell. Now my neighborhood is filled with renters that don't really care about the homes. Tons of people living in these homes in order to pay the rent, tons of cars.

    500k homes filled with semi-trashy renters. Lovely, as the Brits would say.

    How much do I have to pay for a NorCal home to get away from renters?

    Palo Alto is full of renters, me among them. I am super classy so maybe you would like it here. The dilapidated house near me recently sold for 5 million bucks

    Read More
    • Replies: @JerseyJeffersonian
    Probably bought as a tear-down, or as a way to launder money after a flip.
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  90. @Andy
    But Africans live in dirt poor huts and this does not prevent them from having zillions of babies

    Andy, So true, but you don’t need a line of credit or an equity loan to get more sticks and mud for your addition and man cave.

    Read More
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  91. Art Deco says:
    @Sarah Toga
    Sigh.
    Another article on the pre-meditated, continuing decline and continuing fall of Britain.

    At least I have happy memories of the U.K. from lengthy visits between 1977 and 1992.
    A representative memory of that different, and much better time, I have a photo from the days a tourist like me could walk up close to the front door of 10 Downing and snap a pic.

    The U.K. was not broken, it did not need to be fixed by mass replacement.

    England, Scotland, Wales - they were all so beautiful. The indigenous people of each land were so nice.
    Sigh.

    The U.K. was not broken, it did not need to be fixed by mass replacement.

    During the period you make reference to, the country was suffering from sclerotic labor markets with unemployment rates stuck for years in the double-digits. You also had some wretched industrial disputes and a season of rioting.

    PBS has always been a conduit for British television and the material they were importing at the time (documentaries, dramas, comedy, &c) was suffused with narratives of decay. Films like High Hopes and comedy serials like Butterflies would be examples.

    Read More
    • Replies: @anonymous

    During the period you make reference to, the country was suffering from sclerotic labor markets with unemployment rates stuck for years in the double-digits. You also had some wretched industrial disputes and a season of rioting.
     
    With your statement are you trying to contradict Sarah's assertion that the UK was not broken during this time, or that it did not need to be fixed by mass replacement?
    , @Sarah Toga
    Oh.
    So, the economic cycle is a reason to import millions of illiterate, hostile, welfare-grubbing third-worlders?
    Labor markets, unemployment, etc., can be corrected with the people on hand.
    And DNA studies show that "the people on hand" had been in that land since the last ice age. So they sort of have preferential rights to their little island.

    Of course, we need only look to the leaders of Labour Party who admitted to the malicious intent of their nasty open borders scheme.
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  92. @Marina
    There are basically three kinds of residential, non-investment homebuyers, in rough order of age:

    1. First timers. A rising market is completely unhelpful.
    2. People upgrading. Gains in price in their starter home are entirely eaten up by the price increases in their new home. At best, it's a wash.
    3. People downsizing. Gains in value of their current home are freed up by purchasing a new home, often in a cheaper market with inferior job prospects as they are aging and will no longer need to work much, if at all.

    Which group is overrepresented in the media, both as producers and consumers, and which is overrepresented among our leaders? A booming housing market also gooses the equity markets and, again, who owns most of the stock that isn't in institutional hands and needs to sell it soonish to fund their old age?

    A secondary answer is that many businesses are started by remortgaging a house, so a rising housing market is a good source of investment capital for most middle-class would-be entrepreneurs.

    Marina, thank you for the reply, but last week you dumped on me for saying it is financially wise to wait until one is about thirty to start a family. You said you started earlier, but only because of extensive help from your family, including the deposit to rent an apartment and the use of a parent’s basement as your home. So I think without the help of your family you couldn’t afford children, as the article states.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Marina
    I didn't dump on you, I disagreed with you. Nor is any of that relevant to why the ruling class thinks ever higher housing prices are a good thing.
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  93. Thea says:
    @Massimo Heitor

    Secondly, if every Sailer reader were to have 5 kids, it would not make a dent in the population situation. What we desire is systemic change.
     
    Of course. You want to change global trends, but realistically, you can't. Having five kids won't change that, but it will probably make you personally feel a lot better about the world.

    Personally, it makes me more anxious for their future.

    Read More
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  94. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @anon
    - mass immigration
    - the West effectively buying Chinese manufacturing goods with land and property
    - the banking mafia's credit bubble from 1998-2008

    are the three main reasons for house prices being too high.

    On top of that the 2008 crash left the banks with trillions in toxic debt in housing and even with all the bailouts, QE and ZIRP they still would have gone bust if the house prices had fully crashed.

    The banking mafia kept house prices high by doubling down on immigration thus increasing demand.

    On top of that the 2008 crash left the banks with trillions in toxic debt in housing and even with all the bailouts, QE and ZIRP they still would have gone bust if the house prices had fully crashed.

    The banking mafia kept house prices high by doubling down on immigration thus increasing demand.

    So did the banking mafia screw up or was it intentional?

    Read More
    • Replies: @anon

    So did the banking mafia screw up or was it intentional?
     
    the 2008 crash? some people think the banks do the boom / bust thing deliberately as they profit from it either way. i don't know. i find it hard to believe they like big crashes as they run the risk of making people look at banking too closely.
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  95. @27 year old
    Please explain how 10% interest on a mortgage helps me afford to have more kids? This sounds totally insane

    10 percent interest rates from the Federal Reserve Bank will completely implode the global financial system. There will be conflict within and between nations if that happened. The resultant release of “animal spirits” inspired by the conflict will cause a baby boom. The oppressive millstone of inter-generational debt will be gone; newly formed governments will put in place policies that reward and encourage young European Christians to make babies.

    The English used to wade through blood as a hobby. That is why many of us with English ancestry are in the United States. This spirit can be reborn and rejuvenated.

    Globalization is dead; but the globalized ruling class won’t let it drop.

    It is slightly mad; but as the saying goes…mad dogs and Englishmen.

    Read More
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  96. “Soaring house prices reduce number of babies born in England”

    Only for people that have to actually pay for them, I’ll bet you a buck that, just like in the U.S., the poorest people have lots and lots of babies….and why not, the state pays for them,

    There was a great link that showed what % of births were paid for by Medicaid and not one state was under 50%, the highest state was Arkansas with 67% of births paid for by the state.

    we’re doomed.

    Edit: there was a sob story about a poor illegal family leaving Arizona for Colorado when AZ changed it’s immigration laws and that family had 10 kids……………10 FUCKING KIDS!!!

    2 almost bankrupted me but then again I had to actually pay for them.

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    • Agree: ben tillman
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  97. Shaq says:

    Sort of OT: Assimilation of Immigrants.

    http://siepr.stanford.edu/research/publications/immigrants-assimilate

    The author says they do, but the data end in the early 20th century. From the penultimate paragraph: “My research colleagues and I recently got access to California birth certificate records, which will allow us to compare immigrants from current and historical periods to see whether assimilation patterns are similar.”

    I wouldn’t hold my breath for the follow up report…

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  98. In the absence of immigration, a period of low fertility is self-correcting: house prices drop, wages rise (because workers are scarce), interest rates fall (old people cashing in their savings). Young people find good jobs, buy houses, are ready to marry young.

    Mass immigration ruins that.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Altai

    In the absence of immigration, a period of low fertility is self-correcting
     
    This. We've been brainwashed to think population expansion and contraction and expansion again is something which has never happened before. It's the entire history of human demography!

    It goes back to the Forbes or Economist editorial gasping at how bad FIRE people were having in Japan. The opportunities of low land and property prices was ignored. They spend all day warning of how bad it is that the population is shrinking in Japan and then decry that young people in a still highly depressed wage economy aren't paying through their eyes for housing. Things have gotten so crazy at this stage with the banks being inexplicitly saved in 2008 that nothing short of actual serfdom will now please the Economist.

    Ain't nobody ever say "Won't somebody please think of the landlords" who wasn't being paid.

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  99. @Romanian
    Yes, but I am not the only one who determines whether I have so many children. It would be a lot easier if such systemic change were to start to happen:
    - women might want to settle down earlier, rather than living the urbane life, especially in my social circle;
    - they might want bigger families. I might be foolishly wrong, but, from what I've heard from the girls, there's a trend in Romania where doctors get women to have C-sections because the procedures are a lot easier, whereas having the C-sections limits you to 2, 3 children tops before the risks become too great for subsequent births, and neither can you give birth naturally any more. So the doctors themselves are setting us up for normalizing low fertility;
    - not my case, but young people would find it easier to buy a home. Actually, my case too, I would have to switch to a bigger place;
    - the neighborhoods and culture would become friendlier for larger sized families. I can only imagine the nightmare of herding 5 kids of various ages anywhere. And neither will people be very considerate, unlike a more fertility friendly place;
    - the state would be friendlier to the larger family, along with various private actors, like the Church, making it easier as well;
    - ultimately, culture matters. If people feel like a big family is desirable, they will find it easier to have it or rationalize away the difficulties like they do irresponsible shopping. Right now, you're basically screaming low socio-economic status by having more than 2,3 kids.

    There's a lot that goes into this.

    You compiled a long list of excuses to justify your failure to have lots of kids.

    Turn that list around to a list of options for success.

    After you succeed in having kids yourself, then in your later years focus on social engineering of larger society.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    Its the panda's fault that they're going extinct. Stupid bamboo bears.

    The point is sound - the environment does indeed matter, and can make it more toxic for you to have children. My wife is from a French-Canadian family with 9 siblings; I would not at all mind to have as many children, but frankly, there's no way for it to be affordable.

    Despite being in the top 10% of income, I can barely afford a house. For contrast, my father who was making comparatively as much, has a small real-estate empire. The result is that this entire economy serves to reward literal rent-seeking.

    Its a toxic cycle.

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  100. g2k says:
    @LondonBob
    Immigration and absurdly low interest rates. The green belt is a necessity for maintaining quality of life, no population pressure through immigration and we would have no need for new housing. Already, thanks to the destruction of London's planning laws, nasty new tower blocks of luxury apartments are sprouting up, mostly for purchase of Asian investors. The bubble is now bursting for these, God knows what will happen to them, British people prefer houses, but the damage to London's skyline and environment have been done.

    The green belt is mostly intensive farming, subsidised by taxpayers. I anyways used to be quite ashamed of the London skyline and it’s lack of skyscrapers, and most of them have replaced postwar sovok crap. The very low interest rates drive consumer spending and prevent a non trivial number of foreclosures, so they’re likely here to stay. They also make pensions a waste of time, which incentivises oldies to invest in btl.

    British people might well prefer houses to flats, they also probably prefer Lamborghinis over Fords. It doesn’t mean they’ll get them: without inherited wealth, you’re screwed in London and the south East, and a flat in a nasty tower​ block is preferable to a Victorian terrace bodged into a kommunalka/hmo.

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  101. @27 year old
    Please explain how 10% interest on a mortgage helps me afford to have more kids? This sounds totally insane

    It is mad to call for 10 percent federal funds rate — but madder still is what Fed Chairman Paul Volker got it to in 1981. Volcker got it to 22 percent in 1981.

    What I am saying is that the global financial system is beyond reform. It must be imploded. Think big; think in civilizational terms; debt and demography are combining to crush the young people in European Christian nation-states.

    Zero Interest Rate Policy Signals The End Of Globalization

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  102. g2k says:
    @27 year old
    Please explain how 10% interest on a mortgage helps me afford to have more kids? This sounds totally insane

    Because low interest rates act as an accelerant to house price growth by lowering monthly payments and increasing peoples’ borrowing capacity.

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    • Replies: @27 year old
    Good news for people who are gonna pay cash in full for their house (approximately no one) but otherwise?? I'm not seeing how it helps me to have a higher monthly payment? That seems like it makes housing (and family formation) less affordable...
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  103. bomag says:
    @Yak-15
    Which leads to another question - why the f*** are they continuing to have children in Syria? As in, how are there "beautiful babies" for Assad to gas? There has been a 6 yr civil war with mass atrocities. Perhaps it's time Ahmed learned to pull out.

    …why the f*** are they continuing to have children in Syria?

    Yeah, all these “hell holes” we are told about with no food or water seem to end up with plenty of people and transport to visit us.

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  104. g2k says:
    @anon
    - mass immigration
    - the West effectively buying Chinese manufacturing goods with land and property
    - the banking mafia's credit bubble from 1998-2008

    are the three main reasons for house prices being too high.

    On top of that the 2008 crash left the banks with trillions in toxic debt in housing and even with all the bailouts, QE and ZIRP they still would have gone bust if the house prices had fully crashed.

    The banking mafia kept house prices high by doubling down on immigration thus increasing demand.

    Prices were kept high post 2008 by slashing interest rates which prevented a cascade of foreclosures. Mortgage lending criteria was simultaneously tightened an relaxed since then, which made life easy for existing homeowners, but very unpleasant for first time buyers, who were unable to get a mortgage and forced into renting. Since then rent has gone through the roof, preventing people saving for a deposit. Having said that, a bit of millennial bashing is kind of justified: I was waking though Manchester a few months ago and houses are still quite cheap there: Victorian terraces for £45k+ , but “young professionals” in corporate jobs who’d been relocated from London were paying almost London-like rents on them, madness!

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    • Replies: @anon

    Prices were kept high post 2008 by slashing interest rates which prevented a cascade of foreclosures.
     
    Yes, that was one factor - and laundering Chinese billionaire's money through the property market was a second and adding an extra c. 3 million people was a third.
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  105. JerseyGuy says:
    @prosa123
    British people don't have the same fetish for absurdly large McMansions that Americans do.

    I completely agree. However, housing prices are still way, way too high relative to median incomes in Britain. I know alot of British ex-pats (who don’t live in 4,000 square foot McMansions) and they all said that high housing prices dramatically decrease the quality of life in Britain.

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  106. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @anon
    yes - a benign (or at least neutral) ruling class created an industrial revolution which led to a very rapid and massive population explosion which outstripped the growing prosperity and led to great poverty

    this time a wholly malign ruling class off-shored the economy and opened the borders either out of extreme greed or stealth warfare leading to a rapid and massive population explosion which is racing ahead of declining prosperity and leading to great poverty

    pretty similar

    Overseas British migration was spurred by land clearances in England and Scotland by the ruling class before the industrial revolution. The ruling class had selfish motives for the clearances.

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  107. No says:
    @Cindy
    This is so silly. You can rent and have babies. There's no reason to postpone parenthood until you've finally achieved what most people can't achieve until their best childbearing and most energetic years are half gone. We started out "poor", and rented for 12 years of parenthood. Life went on, we set goals, we met them, we bought a house. We were (and are) very unfashionable, but our kids are happy and healthy. And, most importantly, we're still young enough to enjoy them. Housing is a detail, not the purpose of life.

    It’s the number of children Cindy.

    Big House = More Kids

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  108. @JerseyGuy
    I have a few British neighbors. They look at the affordability and inexpensiveness of living in the Northeast of America the way we in the Northeast look at the South or Texas. They said that living in Britain is just too expensiveness for most people, including upper middle class families.

    My wife and I watch House Hunters on HGTV. Whenever they do an international episode in Britain, you will definitely notice at how small and to be frank, crappy, most of the houses are in the country. I'm not trying to be disrespectful. It's just how it is. Just go on Google Streetview and see what most of the housing developments look like. It's just a way, way too crowded country.

    Biggest factors: 1.) Immigration 2.) Building regulations (especially the Green Belts around all major metro areas) 3.) Financialization of the economy. To be fair, the building regulations factor is probably even bigger than immigration.

    All land is owned by the crown in the UK. On top of that there is freehold, which is as close to owning as anything, and leasehold which you lease the property for a set number of years (99 years is fairly standard).

    In practice a lot of land is inherited by aristocrats. Descended from Normans. The Duke of Westminster is the richest man under 30 and owns the most expensive areas of London.

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    • Replies: @RadicalCenter
    All land is owned by the city or town here in the USA, as well, despite popular illusions to the contrary. Try not paying property tax and see how fast the locality takes "your" property.
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  109. anon says: • Disclaimer
    @CC
    Strict zoning/land use regulation really is a problem in England though. The inner 23 wards of Tokyo average more housing starts in a year than the entire UK, and Japan has a shrinking population.

    Japan isn’t infested with a parasitic banking mafia – yet.

    The banking mafia needed to keep house prices high while they were offloading their toxic mortgage debt onto the public through QE. They did it by importing millions of extra people to create excess demand.

    The problem is mass immigration.

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  110. anon says: • Disclaimer
    @biz
    That's silly. For a genocide to be happening, a population needs to decline at a rapid rate, not grow at a slower rate than it otherwise would have due to individuals' personal and economic choices.

    Why not just say what is true, which iSteve basically did?

    For a genocide to be happening

    genocide: inflicting conditions of life intended to destroy in whole or in part a racial, national or religious group

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  111. Bill P says:
    @anon
    - mass immigration
    - the West effectively buying Chinese manufacturing goods with land and property
    - the banking mafia's credit bubble from 1998-2008

    are the three main reasons for house prices being too high.

    On top of that the 2008 crash left the banks with trillions in toxic debt in housing and even with all the bailouts, QE and ZIRP they still would have gone bust if the house prices had fully crashed.

    The banking mafia kept house prices high by doubling down on immigration thus increasing demand.

    But it’s happening in China, too. Probably India as well. Russia for sure.

    The Chinese govt. intervened when Hong Kong’s real estate market tanked after the Asian crisis and took measures to prop it up. There’s something about high housing costs that contemporary governments all over the developed and developing world really like. Maybe an economist here can explain it to me, because I personally think houses are essentially money pits and, except for when they’re used to raise children, nonproductive.

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    • Replies: @anon
    sure - you get property bubbles everywhere from time to time because banks make money from easy credit until they don't - and then the bubble pops

    but on top of that you have
    - mass immigration putting upward pressure on housing
    - the trade deficit meaning the only thing creditors want to buy with their dollars is land and property
    - the 2008 bubble being so big it couldn't be allowed to pop
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  112. @anon
    - mass immigration
    - the West effectively buying Chinese manufacturing goods with land and property
    - the banking mafia's credit bubble from 1998-2008

    are the three main reasons for house prices being too high.

    On top of that the 2008 crash left the banks with trillions in toxic debt in housing and even with all the bailouts, QE and ZIRP they still would have gone bust if the house prices had fully crashed.

    The banking mafia kept house prices high by doubling down on immigration thus increasing demand.

    Also add the rise of two-income households which significantly inflated household prices around the 70s. The bubble has been kept high with easy credit since then, and I think, is part of the overall issues involving declining real income.

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    • Replies: @Marina
    Elizabeth Warren's book back before she was a senator talks about this. It's called The Two Income Trap and it's pretty good.
    , @Opinionator
    and I think, is part of the overall issues involving declining real income.

    Please explain.
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  113. @Romanian
    Yes, but I am not the only one who determines whether I have so many children. It would be a lot easier if such systemic change were to start to happen:
    - women might want to settle down earlier, rather than living the urbane life, especially in my social circle;
    - they might want bigger families. I might be foolishly wrong, but, from what I've heard from the girls, there's a trend in Romania where doctors get women to have C-sections because the procedures are a lot easier, whereas having the C-sections limits you to 2, 3 children tops before the risks become too great for subsequent births, and neither can you give birth naturally any more. So the doctors themselves are setting us up for normalizing low fertility;
    - not my case, but young people would find it easier to buy a home. Actually, my case too, I would have to switch to a bigger place;
    - the neighborhoods and culture would become friendlier for larger sized families. I can only imagine the nightmare of herding 5 kids of various ages anywhere. And neither will people be very considerate, unlike a more fertility friendly place;
    - the state would be friendlier to the larger family, along with various private actors, like the Church, making it easier as well;
    - ultimately, culture matters. If people feel like a big family is desirable, they will find it easier to have it or rationalize away the difficulties like they do irresponsible shopping. Right now, you're basically screaming low socio-economic status by having more than 2,3 kids.

    There's a lot that goes into this.

    No man is an island. Something which I think that libertarians often forget.

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  114. Altai says:
    @Formerly CARealist
    What is this "South Asia" stuff? Does it mean Indians? From now on let's use the country we're talking about.

    Which South Asians are the Brits teeming with besides the Indians and Pakistanis that we know about already?

    I don't want any more people moving to the US, but I like Japanese and Chinese Americans a lot. Korean Americans too. Indian Americans are more difficult because they seem to hate America. What's up with that? Filipinos are cool too, but we have enough.

    Which South Asians are the Brits teeming with besides the Indians and Pakistanis that we know about already?

    Bengalis, Sri Lankans (Both Sinhalese and Tamil) and many Afghans could be classified as Central South Asian. All have healthy and growing populations across Britain.

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  115. Altai says:
    @International Jew
    In the absence of immigration, a period of low fertility is self-correcting: house prices drop, wages rise (because workers are scarce), interest rates fall (old people cashing in their savings). Young people find good jobs, buy houses, are ready to marry young.

    Mass immigration ruins that.

    In the absence of immigration, a period of low fertility is self-correcting

    This. We’ve been brainwashed to think population expansion and contraction and expansion again is something which has never happened before. It’s the entire history of human demography!

    It goes back to the Forbes or Economist editorial gasping at how bad FIRE people were having in Japan. The opportunities of low land and property prices was ignored. They spend all day warning of how bad it is that the population is shrinking in Japan and then decry that young people in a still highly depressed wage economy aren’t paying through their eyes for housing. Things have gotten so crazy at this stage with the banks being inexplicitly saved in 2008 that nothing short of actual serfdom will now please the Economist.

    Ain’t nobody ever say “Won’t somebody please think of the landlords” who wasn’t being paid.

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  116. grapesoda says:
    @George
    Actually nobody likes to live with their parents. That is why all those migrants risk death to come to Europe. Living with your parents leads to 'peasant fatalism'.

    Why do parents have extra real estate to house their kids in family 'compounds', like peasants in the middle east. In a free market real estate entrepreneurs would be able to exchange mum and dad's family compound for someplace smaller for mum and dad and maybe a studio or single room occupancy apartment aka flop house for their under-resourced son or daughter. One diversity never discussed is real estate diversity, having multiple sized living conditions in the same area. The only permissible use of single room occupancy real estate is college dormitories.

    Barbizon Hotel for Women
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barbizon_63

    Once upon a time when men dressing like women was considered funny.
    http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0080202/

    By the time Bussom Buddies was on the air, the whole concept of the Barbizon was falling into disfavor.

    Actually nobody likes to live with their parents. That is why all those migrants risk death to come to Europe.

    Yeah but moving out isn’t that much better. You get your own kitchen, your own bedroom, your own bathroom, and your own… ring around the collar. :(

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  117. @Massimo Heitor
    You compiled a long list of excuses to justify your failure to have lots of kids.

    Turn that list around to a list of options for success.

    After you succeed in having kids yourself, then in your later years focus on social engineering of larger society.

    Its the panda’s fault that they’re going extinct. Stupid bamboo bears.

    The point is sound – the environment does indeed matter, and can make it more toxic for you to have children. My wife is from a French-Canadian family with 9 siblings; I would not at all mind to have as many children, but frankly, there’s no way for it to be affordable.

    Despite being in the top 10% of income, I can barely afford a house. For contrast, my father who was making comparatively as much, has a small real-estate empire. The result is that this entire economy serves to reward literal rent-seeking.

    Its a toxic cycle.

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    • Replies: @Massimo Heitor

    Its the panda’s fault that they’re going extinct. Stupid bamboo bears.

     

    Instead of polishing your excuses on why you are going to lose, play to win.

    Of course others are at fault and scheming against us. Punch back.
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  118. @Daniel Chieh
    Its the panda's fault that they're going extinct. Stupid bamboo bears.

    The point is sound - the environment does indeed matter, and can make it more toxic for you to have children. My wife is from a French-Canadian family with 9 siblings; I would not at all mind to have as many children, but frankly, there's no way for it to be affordable.

    Despite being in the top 10% of income, I can barely afford a house. For contrast, my father who was making comparatively as much, has a small real-estate empire. The result is that this entire economy serves to reward literal rent-seeking.

    Its a toxic cycle.

    Its the panda’s fault that they’re going extinct. Stupid bamboo bears.

    Instead of polishing your excuses on why you are going to lose, play to win.

    Of course others are at fault and scheming against us. Punch back.

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  119. @Steve Sailer
    The English don't like to live with their parents. It appears to be an Anglo-Saxon thing.

    Mother-in-law suites are increasingly a thing. Real estate prices eventually crack even the Anglo-Saxons.

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    • Replies: @LondonBob
    Granny flats are more common now, true. Although they still need to have separate living areas.
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  120. bomag says:
    @Massimo Heitor
    If birth rate demographic trends really bother you all, and you don't realistically have any global political power in the world, why not just have five+ children yourselves? It won't solve the problems of the universe, but it will genuinely resolve most of the immediate anxiety, frustration, and bitterness on this issue that you personally experience.

    why not just have five+ children yourselves

    Some of us did, and we are watching the System make it difficult for our kids to start families.

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  121. @Marina
    There are basically three kinds of residential, non-investment homebuyers, in rough order of age:

    1. First timers. A rising market is completely unhelpful.
    2. People upgrading. Gains in price in their starter home are entirely eaten up by the price increases in their new home. At best, it's a wash.
    3. People downsizing. Gains in value of their current home are freed up by purchasing a new home, often in a cheaper market with inferior job prospects as they are aging and will no longer need to work much, if at all.

    Which group is overrepresented in the media, both as producers and consumers, and which is overrepresented among our leaders? A booming housing market also gooses the equity markets and, again, who owns most of the stock that isn't in institutional hands and needs to sell it soonish to fund their old age?

    A secondary answer is that many businesses are started by remortgaging a house, so a rising housing market is a good source of investment capital for most middle-class would-be entrepreneurs.

    Mortgaging the house may be a common way of getting funds to start a business, but it’s not a wise one.

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  122. @Formerly CARealist
    What is this "South Asia" stuff? Does it mean Indians? From now on let's use the country we're talking about.

    Which South Asians are the Brits teeming with besides the Indians and Pakistanis that we know about already?

    I don't want any more people moving to the US, but I like Japanese and Chinese Americans a lot. Korean Americans too. Indian Americans are more difficult because they seem to hate America. What's up with that? Filipinos are cool too, but we have enough.

    Question is, do those nice Chinese, Korean, and Japanese “Americans” like you and yours? Will they give our kids –who are not Chinese, Korean, or Japanese — a fair shake when hiring employees for their businesses? Are they organizing on a tribal/racial basis to gain political and economic power at our direct expense?

    Don’t be naïve, man.

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    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    I think you overestimate the tribalism of Asians; I certainly do hire whites, etc and I care for the competence of people a lot more than their race. I think there's some truth that every "empire" such as the Chinese have had to learn to some extent to overcome pure ethnic tribalism, or else you wouldn't have much of an empire. The invade/invite dynamic is reasonably true even in the ancient world. Rome had to extend citizenship to non-Romans, for example.

    The weakness of that mentality is that you can get influenced/pozzed by outside forces pretty easily, as Korean now can testify to. Rome certainly found out that once they caught Christianity, too, there was no removing it.
    , @Corvinus
    "Are they organizing on a tribal/racial basis to gain political and economic power at our direct expense?"

    Wow, the Alt Right has really done a number on you. Do you truly believe that each race/ethnic group is a rival, that each "tribe" seeks to dominate the other? Americans in general do not subscribe to that theory.
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  123. @TelfoedJohn
    All land is owned by the crown in the UK. On top of that there is freehold, which is as close to owning as anything, and leasehold which you lease the property for a set number of years (99 years is fairly standard).

    In practice a lot of land is inherited by aristocrats. Descended from Normans. The Duke of Westminster is the richest man under 30 and owns the most expensive areas of London.

    All land is owned by the city or town here in the USA, as well, despite popular illusions to the contrary. Try not paying property tax and see how fast the locality takes “your” property.

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  124. anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @Art Deco
    The U.K. was not broken, it did not need to be fixed by mass replacement.

    During the period you make reference to, the country was suffering from sclerotic labor markets with unemployment rates stuck for years in the double-digits. You also had some wretched industrial disputes and a season of rioting.

    PBS has always been a conduit for British television and the material they were importing at the time (documentaries, dramas, comedy, &c) was suffused with narratives of decay. Films like High Hopes and comedy serials like Butterflies would be examples.

    During the period you make reference to, the country was suffering from sclerotic labor markets with unemployment rates stuck for years in the double-digits. You also had some wretched industrial disputes and a season of rioting.

    With your statement are you trying to contradict Sarah’s assertion that the UK was not broken during this time, or that it did not need to be fixed by mass replacement?

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    • Replies: @Art Deco
    Neither. I'm pointing out that Britain had problems and the notion that it was in problematic condition was widespread at the time. It may not have been universal or even very accurate, but it was certainly abroad. See contemporaneous news reports.
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  125. anon says: • Disclaimer
    @ben tillman

    nope

    like the US, after the collapse of the Soviet Union the banking mafia in the UK off-shored everything useful and productive as part of their looting so FIRRE is all that’s left.
     
    But the wealth looted by the FIRE comes from oil. That's the source of almost all wealth.

    they off-shored the industry and profited from the resulting trade deficit – same as the US

    the oil paid for the resulting mass unemployment

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  126. anon says: • Disclaimer
    @Erik L
    I agree with a lot of that except I can't see offshoring the economy as a primary goal of the "banking mafia". As of the early 1980s free trade was a rising fashion and we just got consumer inflation under control for the first time since we went off Bretton Woods. I'd say the money printing is because it caused effects that were beneficial to the people in office and any consequences would be realized long after they left office. As long as it didn't show up in consumer inflation what was the incentive to stop?

    I agree with a lot of that except I can’t see offshoring the economy as a primary goal of the “banking mafia”.

    by moving manufacturing industry off-shore and then selling the products back to the domestic market they could arbitrage labor costs – pay eastern wages and sell at western prices

    but only because the resulting trade deficit was paid for in debt and the slow leeching of wealth

    now we’re in the end game that slow leeching of wealth is becoming more obvious as China etc buys up land and property by the armful

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  127. @g2k
    Because low interest rates act as an accelerant to house price growth by lowering monthly payments and increasing peoples' borrowing capacity.

    Good news for people who are gonna pay cash in full for their house (approximately no one) but otherwise?? I’m not seeing how it helps me to have a higher monthly payment? That seems like it makes housing (and family formation) less affordable…

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    • Replies: @anon
    i don't know for sure but i think the original comment about 10% interest rates you replied to was related to popping the house price bubble therefore making houses affordable again - raising interest rates generally does that. (although i'm not even sure that would work given the current state of supply and demand)
    , @Buffalo Joe
    27, When my mother sold her house five years ago we took the highest cash offer. And last year my son-in-law sold his late father's house and took the highest cash offer, which exceeded the asking price, so cash housing sales are happening.
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  128. donut says:
    @Chrisnonymous
    Steve,
    Sorry for another OT comment, but I think many readers will be interested in/pleased with this:

    https://twitter.com/EHSANI22/status/852183604692230144


    Here are links to images of the document:

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C9OQdNCWAAAK2np.jpg

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C9OQdM8XgAIrV5n.jpg

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C9OQdNAXsAEpk4r.jpg

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C9OQdWGXgAABv8U.jpg

    ...what the country is now being told by the White House cannot be true...

     

    This is what I've been looking for--some forensic evidence that comports with the sensible intuitive notion that Assad was being set up. I hope it doesn't turn out to be, itself, a hoax.

    He seems to be for real . Here is his wikpedia page .

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theodore_Postol

    In this day and age truth is in a constant state of flux .

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    • Replies: @Brutusale
    The Cathedral spent a lot of time trying to discredit Postol after his scathing critique of the Patriot anti-missile system after Gulf War I. Turned out he was correct all along.
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  129. Anon7 says:

    OT: Speaking of family formation, our nation’s immigrant women face a loss of marriageability!

    A female Detroit physician has been arrested for female genital mutilation, a five-year felony, and transportation with intent to engage in criminal sexual activity, a 10-year felony, according to a complaint unsealed Thursday in U.S. District Court. Jumana Nagarwala of Livonia was charged.

    http://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/local/detroit-city/2017/04/13/doctor-charged-genital-mutilation/100416734/

    3 million girls in Africa undergo the procedure each year. The practice is most common in parts of Africa, the Middle East and Asia, along with migrants from those regions, according to the World Health Organization. The procedure is believed to initiate girls into adulthood and ensure their marriageability.

    I assume that our nation’s social justice warriors will come to her defense; I can’t see how this woman’s vibrant cultural diversity shouldn’t be protected.

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    • Replies: @George
    Detroit has affordable housing. How's the demographics doing. What's that Caliphate next door, Dearborn?

    As far as the FGM goes. Presumably, she maintained a sterile environment and used anesthesia. The girls were going to get it anyway, might as well not make things worse by forcing it underground or overseas.
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  130. anon says: • Disclaimer
    @Anonymous
    On top of that the 2008 crash left the banks with trillions in toxic debt in housing and even with all the bailouts, QE and ZIRP they still would have gone bust if the house prices had fully crashed.

    The banking mafia kept house prices high by doubling down on immigration thus increasing demand.


    So did the banking mafia screw up or was it intentional?

    So did the banking mafia screw up or was it intentional?

    the 2008 crash? some people think the banks do the boom / bust thing deliberately as they profit from it either way. i don’t know. i find it hard to believe they like big crashes as they run the risk of making people look at banking too closely.

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  131. Marina says:
    @Romanian
    Yes, but I am not the only one who determines whether I have so many children. It would be a lot easier if such systemic change were to start to happen:
    - women might want to settle down earlier, rather than living the urbane life, especially in my social circle;
    - they might want bigger families. I might be foolishly wrong, but, from what I've heard from the girls, there's a trend in Romania where doctors get women to have C-sections because the procedures are a lot easier, whereas having the C-sections limits you to 2, 3 children tops before the risks become too great for subsequent births, and neither can you give birth naturally any more. So the doctors themselves are setting us up for normalizing low fertility;
    - not my case, but young people would find it easier to buy a home. Actually, my case too, I would have to switch to a bigger place;
    - the neighborhoods and culture would become friendlier for larger sized families. I can only imagine the nightmare of herding 5 kids of various ages anywhere. And neither will people be very considerate, unlike a more fertility friendly place;
    - the state would be friendlier to the larger family, along with various private actors, like the Church, making it easier as well;
    - ultimately, culture matters. If people feel like a big family is desirable, they will find it easier to have it or rationalize away the difficulties like they do irresponsible shopping. Right now, you're basically screaming low socio-economic status by having more than 2,3 kids.

    There's a lot that goes into this.

    I don’t now about Romania, but a lifetime limit of 3 c sections is absolutely not the case in the US any more. The trend in obstetrics has been toward transferring more of the risk to the mother over the infant during L+D, which means more c sections. I had a c with my first because the baby’s heart rate dropped with every contraction. Now the baby might have been fine, but there was some small chance of brain damage due to oxygen deprivation. How much risk would you take on to avoid a c section, if your own child’s future hung in the balance? Anyway, my OB says 6 is now doable, and he’s done up to 10 on one woman, but beyond 6 you have to have gotten really lucky in how you heal.

    The bigger problem I see in America is:
    1. You can’t do current middle class parenting norms beyond 3 kids.
    2. Outside of religious subcultures, motherhood is low status. People will do all sorts of nutty and illogical things to gain status.

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    • Replies: @Massimo Heitor

    I don’t now about Romania, but a lifetime limit of 3 c sections is absolutely not the case in the US any more.
     
    US hospitals were over-using c-sections for a variety of reasons, but there has been a real push back on that. Many birthing centers boast about low c-section rates. Johnathan Bush, cousin of George W Bush, who started Athena Health Care, boasted about lowering c-section rates. This is a more actively understood and monitored issue.

    1. You can’t do current middle class parenting norms beyond 3 kids.

     

    Some parents do more. I know middle class parents with four kids and it's hard.

    I know a low class mother who at a young age set a goal of having ten kids. She did it. One of children died in his late teenage years and she had a replacement, eleventh. She always worked, but did under the table hair braiding work, she literally never had an official job in her life. And she's quite comfortable figuring out which government programs to use to pay her bills. It's pretty horrible that she could just do that.
    , @Romanian
    The girls told me that the doctors limit them to 2-3 tops. Maybe tech is better in the US? Post-natal care?
    , @Anonymous
    If a population of women genuinely needs C-sections at a rate more than perhaps three or four percent, you have an unbirthworthy herd, to put it bluntly. Either too many are too old or too many have too narrow a pelvis and birth canal.

    I don't think most C-sections are really necessary. I also think thet routine electronic fetal monitoring is largely a scheme to get the C-section rate up and sell expensive electroonics. More to the point, several of my circle of electronic geeks, ham radio operators and tube amp tinkerers, are themselves current or former biomed techs and/or HP/Agilent biomed sales people and they tell me this. EFM was sold as revenue generators, just lilke police speed radar equipment was to cops and small town governments.

    I'm absolutely convinced that routine hospitalization of childbirth is a bad idea and going back to home birth is necessary, desirable and safe. At a minimum, thirty or forty percent of babies should be born at home.

    This means accurately assessing women pre-pregnancy for likely problems and it means a paradigm shift. I think when it happens, the C section rate will go to about ten percent overnight and stay there.
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  132. Marina says:
    @Buffalo Joe
    Marina, thank you for the reply, but last week you dumped on me for saying it is financially wise to wait until one is about thirty to start a family. You said you started earlier, but only because of extensive help from your family, including the deposit to rent an apartment and the use of a parent's basement as your home. So I think without the help of your family you couldn't afford children, as the article states.

    I didn’t dump on you, I disagreed with you. Nor is any of that relevant to why the ruling class thinks ever higher housing prices are a good thing.

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  133. That tweet was from May of 2015. I am proud that the English led the way for the UK to leave the EU. God Bless England and Britain.

    Mass Immigration Causes White Genocide in Britain and White Genocide in England.

    The ruling class of England is using mass immigration as a demographic weapon to destroy the English people.

    Mass immigration increases housing costs, allows Islamic terrorist infiltration and brings Muslim rape gangs to England.

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  134. @JerseyGuy
    From my understanding, there is a drastic change in Metro Britain areas from urban to rural due to the Green Belts. In America, the change seems to be more organic, although we have the space here to have healthy amounts of urban, suburban and rural. The Green Belts seem like a great idea for a country with a stable population, especially since the British countryside is so beautiful. In the current globalist environment, it seems to have been a disaster for working class and middle class housing affordability. Of course, in the current environment, if Britain were to allow American style sprawl, 90% of the island would be covered.

    I need to find the article but I recall reading that Britain (specifically England) was the only developed country to have the average size of a newly built house decrease over the past 30 years. Crazy!

    The Green Belts seem like a great idea for a country with a stable population, especially since the British countryside is so beautiful. In the current globalist environment, it seems to have been a disaster for working class and middle class housing affordability.

    They’ve been there for 100 years. The green belts aren’t the least responsible for this recent fast run up in housing prices.

    You could open all the green belts to development now and that land would be eaten up by American style sprawl by 5 or 10 years of Britain’s mass immigration fueled growth.

    All you would have accomplished is destroying this wonderful heritage and nosedived the livability of Britain’s cities … and be right where you were.

    No this is entirely driven by the insanity of mass immigration. If you throw your nation open to the world–let anyone and everyone from the world over into a tiny country like England–then obviously housing will be unaffordable. England has sold the birthright of its children. (As we in America are doing lest I appear smug.)

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  135. Marina says:
    @Daniel Chieh
    Also add the rise of two-income households which significantly inflated household prices around the 70s. The bubble has been kept high with easy credit since then, and I think, is part of the overall issues involving declining real income.

    Elizabeth Warren’s book back before she was a senator talks about this. It’s called The Two Income Trap and it’s pretty good.

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    • Replies: @Brutusale
    Opinions vary, usually by strict party lines.
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  136. anon says: • Disclaimer
    @g2k
    Prices were kept high post 2008 by slashing interest rates which prevented a cascade of foreclosures. Mortgage lending criteria was simultaneously tightened an relaxed since then, which made life easy for existing homeowners, but very unpleasant for first time buyers, who were unable to get a mortgage and forced into renting. Since then rent has gone through the roof, preventing people saving for a deposit. Having said that, a bit of millennial bashing is kind of justified: I was waking though Manchester a few months ago and houses are still quite cheap there: Victorian terraces for £45k+ , but "young professionals" in corporate jobs who'd been relocated from London were paying almost London-like rents on them, madness!

    Prices were kept high post 2008 by slashing interest rates which prevented a cascade of foreclosures.

    Yes, that was one factor – and laundering Chinese billionaire’s money through the property market was a second and adding an extra c. 3 million people was a third.

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    • Replies: @Opinionator
    Surely we've imported more than an additional 3 million since 2008.
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  137. @biz
    That's silly. For a genocide to be happening, a population needs to decline at a rapid rate, not grow at a slower rate than it otherwise would have due to individuals' personal and economic choices.

    Why not just say what is true, which iSteve basically did?

    Whether the drop pulls the fertility rate below replacement or reduces it relative to a higher-fertility-rate rival population, it still amounts to genocide.

    This is genocide.

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  138. Marina says:
    @Cindy
    This is so silly. You can rent and have babies. There's no reason to postpone parenthood until you've finally achieved what most people can't achieve until their best childbearing and most energetic years are half gone. We started out "poor", and rented for 12 years of parenthood. Life went on, we set goals, we met them, we bought a house. We were (and are) very unfashionable, but our kids are happy and healthy. And, most importantly, we're still young enough to enjoy them. Housing is a detail, not the purpose of life.

    During the housing bubble, I remember reading somewhere that the English speaking peoples all over the world have a weird fetish for home-ownership compared to, say, the Germans or Dutch. I think moving out and establishing a separate household, often including ownership, has been working for the English for an awfully long time. It’s a weird quirk, from a global standpoint, sure, but what does a nation exist for if NOT to serve the weird quirks of a people? It’s not like a tsunami came along, destroyed half the island’s housing stock and caused an unavoidable spike in prices: this is the result of deliberate public policy choices on the part of the English leadership. If the English want to own houses before having babies and this has been part of their norms for a long time, the state should be protecting/preserving that, not undermining it.

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  139. anon says: • Disclaimer
    @Bill P
    But it's happening in China, too. Probably India as well. Russia for sure.

    The Chinese govt. intervened when Hong Kong's real estate market tanked after the Asian crisis and took measures to prop it up. There's something about high housing costs that contemporary governments all over the developed and developing world really like. Maybe an economist here can explain it to me, because I personally think houses are essentially money pits and, except for when they're used to raise children, nonproductive.

    sure – you get property bubbles everywhere from time to time because banks make money from easy credit until they don’t – and then the bubble pops

    but on top of that you have
    - mass immigration putting upward pressure on housing
    - the trade deficit meaning the only thing creditors want to buy with their dollars is land and property
    - the 2008 bubble being so big it couldn’t be allowed to pop

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  140. @anon

    Prices were kept high post 2008 by slashing interest rates which prevented a cascade of foreclosures.
     
    Yes, that was one factor - and laundering Chinese billionaire's money through the property market was a second and adding an extra c. 3 million people was a third.

    Surely we’ve imported more than an additional 3 million since 2008.

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    • Replies: @anon
    the UK has had around 3 million or so iirc
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  141. @biz
    Interesting...

    Was she in league with some criminal syndicate and made a wrong move?

    Only the Democrats. Maybe she got too jiggy with property rights or something. You know how those Democrat bigwigs are about those sorts of things. Touchy, touchy. Don’t meddle with the results of their favored social construct, Meritocracy. Poor people are for votes, not having a say.

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  142. anon says: • Disclaimer
    @27 year old
    Good news for people who are gonna pay cash in full for their house (approximately no one) but otherwise?? I'm not seeing how it helps me to have a higher monthly payment? That seems like it makes housing (and family formation) less affordable...

    i don’t know for sure but i think the original comment about 10% interest rates you replied to was related to popping the house price bubble therefore making houses affordable again – raising interest rates generally does that. (although i’m not even sure that would work given the current state of supply and demand)

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  143. Soaring house prices reduce number of babies born in England

    “Rising house prices” ought to be one of the oft repeated phrases from any and all nationalist\immigration-restrictionist politicians and parties. Yet, i’ve basically never heard it. At best you get something about American jobs.

    “Rising house prices” is one of those issues–unlike working class employment–that the good-whites actually obsess over. And mentioned with “kids”, it really pries open the idea that we’re selling off our children’s birthright and hints at “filling up” the land and all the environmental issues associated with that.

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    • Agree: Opinionator, Nico
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  144. anon says: • Disclaimer
    @Opinionator
    Surely we've imported more than an additional 3 million since 2008.

    the UK has had around 3 million or so iirc

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  145. @Erik L
    Palo Alto is full of renters, me among them. I am super classy so maybe you would like it here. The dilapidated house near me recently sold for 5 million bucks

    Probably bought as a tear-down, or as a way to launder money after a flip.

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  146. @27 year old
    Good news for people who are gonna pay cash in full for their house (approximately no one) but otherwise?? I'm not seeing how it helps me to have a higher monthly payment? That seems like it makes housing (and family formation) less affordable...

    27, When my mother sold her house five years ago we took the highest cash offer. And last year my son-in-law sold his late father’s house and took the highest cash offer, which exceeded the asking price, so cash housing sales are happening.

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    • Replies: @Opinionator
    Doesn't the seller typically receive cash, whether the buyer obtains it via mortgage or not?
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  147. @anonymous
    Sailer is referring back to this passage in the quoted article:

    "...for every 10 per cent increase in house prices, the birth rate falls by 1.3 per cent."

    So a 290% increase in house prices would lead to a 37.7% drop in the birth rate.

    Vinteuil

    Sailer is referring back to this passage in the quoted article:
    “…for every 10 per cent increase in house prices, the birth rate falls by 1.3 per cent.”
    So a 290% increase in house prices would lead to a 37.7% drop in the birth rate.

    Thasnks, Vinteuil. That clears it up.

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  148. @Buffalo Joe
    27, When my mother sold her house five years ago we took the highest cash offer. And last year my son-in-law sold his late father's house and took the highest cash offer, which exceeded the asking price, so cash housing sales are happening.

    Doesn’t the seller typically receive cash, whether the buyer obtains it via mortgage or not?

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    • Replies: @Ivy
    Cash buyers can have shorter escrow periods since there isn't a financing contingency. You don't need to wonder if the buyer will qualify for a loan through some sketchy bank with its own daily headline problems, for example, so that removes some uncertainty from the process.
    , @Buffalo Joe
    Opi, A cash sale eliminates most of the time drag associated with a mortgage. In my son-in-law's sale, the buyer offered cash, no home or radon inspection and a guarantee to close in less than 30 days.
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  149. J.Ross says: • Website
    @biz
    That's silly. For a genocide to be happening, a population needs to decline at a rapid rate, not grow at a slower rate than it otherwise would have due to individuals' personal and economic choices.

    Why not just say what is true, which iSteve basically did?

    Genocide is extremely clearly defined as setting policies to bring about such a result regardless of their efficacy. This, from the inventor of the term. It was defined this way to be able to stop it.

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  150. @Romanian
    Yes, but I am not the only one who determines whether I have so many children. It would be a lot easier if such systemic change were to start to happen:
    - women might want to settle down earlier, rather than living the urbane life, especially in my social circle;
    - they might want bigger families. I might be foolishly wrong, but, from what I've heard from the girls, there's a trend in Romania where doctors get women to have C-sections because the procedures are a lot easier, whereas having the C-sections limits you to 2, 3 children tops before the risks become too great for subsequent births, and neither can you give birth naturally any more. So the doctors themselves are setting us up for normalizing low fertility;
    - not my case, but young people would find it easier to buy a home. Actually, my case too, I would have to switch to a bigger place;
    - the neighborhoods and culture would become friendlier for larger sized families. I can only imagine the nightmare of herding 5 kids of various ages anywhere. And neither will people be very considerate, unlike a more fertility friendly place;
    - the state would be friendlier to the larger family, along with various private actors, like the Church, making it easier as well;
    - ultimately, culture matters. If people feel like a big family is desirable, they will find it easier to have it or rationalize away the difficulties like they do irresponsible shopping. Right now, you're basically screaming low socio-economic status by having more than 2,3 kids.

    There's a lot that goes into this.

    What systemic changes do you seek?

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    • Replies: @Romanian
    Well, as Marina said in the other reply, one of the most important things is to make motherhood and larger families high status again. That's a systemic change if I ever saw one. In parallel, there are a number of measures the state can take, though none beat an optimistic and growing economy.

    Another issue that I think cannot be neglected is what other people said here, and works for Romania as well, which is that rising home prices are a transfer from the young to the old, to the detriment of the former's fertility. We have very high prices around here (and downpayments between 15-40%), when compared to the salaries, and they have remained high, even after the bursting of the bubble. We have a homeowner society, and the mentality to go with it. Nobody ever gives birth while renting. Period. Even when the state tried to help young people with the collateral guarantees for first time home-buyers, within a price limit, what happened was that prices went up to reflect that the youngsters could borrow more. Some communes (collections of villages centrally run from the largest) offer free land to young people from village property to build a house, but who wants to live in the sticks? Not a lot of people, because there isn't a lot of opportunity, job-wise, and you also think of amenities like good schools. Rural schooling is awful in Romania.

    What is needed is a masked generational transfer of wealth by crashing housing prices. Either the state starts building middle class social housing, like the Swedes did in the 1960s, to glut the market, or it acts to eliminate the factors pushing home loans upwards, or it acts on limiting outside buyers coming to the major cities. This is especially important because we're talking about promoting births in the middle and upper classes especially here, because they are the most likely to be low fertility. Just a quarter of a million people in Romania make over 1000 euros a month, but a decently placed Communist flat of 500 sq ft (2 bedrooms) will cost 70k, post-bubble, and there's another bubble forming as we speak. Even so, there is a psychological cost associated with cramped Communist housing. The private home building market has taken its cues from what the overwhelming stock of housing looks like, so sizes of apartments in new buildings are similar. How will a middle class family have 2-3 children in a two bedroom flat? One of the most widespread stereotypes about Gypsies is that they all live out of a single room, even when they have a palace, so it screams declassee. So, this theoretical building glut from the state would sell the apartments near cost to people wanting larger families, maybe even contractually (restricting resale for a few years, with the anticipated difference being a nest egg), but would also have to be larger, to change the market composition. Even houses in the new suburbs are 600 sq ft with 2 bedrooms :))). At the current building costs, you could sell an apartment 2-3 times the size of a communist built one at the same price (the land is not factored in). Meanwhile, what housing is built is either devoted to subsidized rent or sold near market prices, but it is neither very appealing, nor is it a useful push in composition. As an example, the state built 1000 apartments in a pretty well located complex - only 30 of the units were two bedroom flats, the rest were studios (overwhelmingly) and one bedroom flats.
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  151. @Daniel Chieh
    Also add the rise of two-income households which significantly inflated household prices around the 70s. The bubble has been kept high with easy credit since then, and I think, is part of the overall issues involving declining real income.

    and I think, is part of the overall issues involving declining real income.

    Please explain.

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    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    http://www.mybudget360.com/two-income-trap-dual-income-trap-household-income-middle-class-two-income-trap/

    But essentially, even as actual purchasing power decreased, the increase of female employment raised the income of family such that it disguised the fall of real income and citizens did not feel the pinch of declining living standards.

    This "trick" was replicated again later with easy credit, so even as purchasing power continued to fall, living standards again did not feel like they were decreasing: it just meant that more people would be in debt their entire life.

    I think the reckoning though, isn't being put off much longer. At least part of the overall fracturing of society, I feel, is due to the realization that the overall pie is shrinking. Economic stresses also promote cults and religion, and since I see SJWism as a religion, well...

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  152. EriK says:
    @Erik L
    Anyone else think it's nuts that you can buy a home in a country you aren't a citizen of? Okay maybe that's not too nuts but surely we can agree there is no reason to allow someone living in China to buy homes in California.

    The second thing I feel certain must be the root cause of the housing mess is printing too much money

    Try buying a house in Mexico.

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  153. George says:
    @Anon7
    OT: Speaking of family formation, our nation's immigrant women face a loss of marriageability!

    A female Detroit physician has been arrested for female genital mutilation, a five-year felony, and transportation with intent to engage in criminal sexual activity, a 10-year felony, according to a complaint unsealed Thursday in U.S. District Court. Jumana Nagarwala of Livonia was charged.

    http://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/local/detroit-city/2017/04/13/doctor-charged-genital-mutilation/100416734/

    3 million girls in Africa undergo the procedure each year. The practice is most common in parts of Africa, the Middle East and Asia, along with migrants from those regions, according to the World Health Organization. The procedure is believed to initiate girls into adulthood and ensure their marriageability.

    I assume that our nation's social justice warriors will come to her defense; I can't see how this woman's vibrant cultural diversity shouldn't be protected.

    Detroit has affordable housing. How’s the demographics doing. What’s that Caliphate next door, Dearborn?

    As far as the FGM goes. Presumably, she maintained a sterile environment and used anesthesia. The girls were going to get it anyway, might as well not make things worse by forcing it underground or overseas.

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  154. Art Deco says:
    @anonymous

    During the period you make reference to, the country was suffering from sclerotic labor markets with unemployment rates stuck for years in the double-digits. You also had some wretched industrial disputes and a season of rioting.
     
    With your statement are you trying to contradict Sarah's assertion that the UK was not broken during this time, or that it did not need to be fixed by mass replacement?

    Neither. I’m pointing out that Britain had problems and the notion that it was in problematic condition was widespread at the time. It may not have been universal or even very accurate, but it was certainly abroad. See contemporaneous news reports.

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  155. @JerseyGuy
    I have a few British neighbors. They look at the affordability and inexpensiveness of living in the Northeast of America the way we in the Northeast look at the South or Texas. They said that living in Britain is just too expensiveness for most people, including upper middle class families.

    My wife and I watch House Hunters on HGTV. Whenever they do an international episode in Britain, you will definitely notice at how small and to be frank, crappy, most of the houses are in the country. I'm not trying to be disrespectful. It's just how it is. Just go on Google Streetview and see what most of the housing developments look like. It's just a way, way too crowded country.

    Biggest factors: 1.) Immigration 2.) Building regulations (especially the Green Belts around all major metro areas) 3.) Financialization of the economy. To be fair, the building regulations factor is probably even bigger than immigration.

    We need to import the conservative Brits to America to have families here. There should be a non-governmental way to do it. What is that way?

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    • Replies: @Daniel H
    >>We need to import the conservative Brits to America to have families here. There should be a non-governmental way to do it. What is that way?

    There are no, or very, very, very few, conservative Brits. The Tories are not conservative in any meaningful sense of the word. Importing "conservative" Brits would be just adding more Cucks to the soup. No thanks.
    , @anon
    if the US provides a lifeboat for Europeans then there's less incentive to fight - there needs to be no way out.

    on the other hand it might bleed out all the weaklings leaving the best behind - but the last thing the US needs is more cucks. it would be like Californian SJWs moving to Oregon.
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  156. @Whiskey
    Trumps kids are his kids. They could land him in jail and he'd still back them. They are his kids. Bannon is just some guy.

    Nothing will change in the West BC elites and single women want pop replacement.

    Your disgusting pessimism would never have admitted Trump’s election. Let us face facts, you are a masochist, whose self-inflicted wounds somehow give you comfort. But you are too intelligent to take your assertions to their logical conclusion. If you were not possessed of sufficient intelligence, you would not be posting here.

    Repent Whiskey, and forgive. She wasn’t and isn’t worth your soul.

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  157. Ivy says:
    @Opinionator
    Doesn't the seller typically receive cash, whether the buyer obtains it via mortgage or not?

    Cash buyers can have shorter escrow periods since there isn’t a financing contingency. You don’t need to wonder if the buyer will qualify for a loan through some sketchy bank with its own daily headline problems, for example, so that removes some uncertainty from the process.

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    • Replies: @Opinionator
    Gotcha, thanks.
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  158. @Anonymous
    Trump didn't "cuck" then because he was listening to Bannon and Miller, not Kushner and Cohn.

    Trump isn’t cucking now, but the tendency of the blackpilled eeyores to believe whatever confirms their “we’re doomed!” mindset is just sad.

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  159. @ben tillman

    If you think an AG Sessions speech on the SWB would have happened under anyone else than you’re smoking rock.
     
    SWB?

    Southwest Border.

    I can’t speak for Federale (the other guy here who’s in immigration enforcement), but the changes we are seeing behind the scenes in my neck of the woods are huge.

    Its why I shrug my shoulders when the eeyore crowd breathlessly posts another story from Bezo Blog: my own experiences are telling me otherwise.

    Just the fact we are doing “plain reading” of the law vs. Giving NTAs for 2 years down the road because someone says “I fear the gangs” is huge. AG Sessions dusting off felony 1326 is wild. Never thought Id see that again with any regularity.

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  160. @Yak-15
    Sessions spoke? Holy Obama, we are saved!

    Meanwhile Bannon is off the NSC, we inch closer to war with Russia over a non-core interest and North Korea becomes the next zone of intervention.

    Yet Bannon still attends meetings on the NSC and Trump is moving to head off a regional war in Asia.

    When you’re done hyperventilating about nothing, maybe tell me how Trump can’t beat Clinton, LMBO.

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  161. @anon

    Lol yet again at the blackpill eeyore crowd being wrong for the nth time.
     
    You need to work on your people-reading skills. A lot of commenters here aren't pro-Trump - they're just slightly more paranoid about Muslim immigration than they are about white people.

    I think you need to take your own advice about reading comprehension.

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  162. Daniel H says:
    @Anonymous
    Steve, more focus on Kushner please. This stuff is outrageous:

    http://www.lifezette.com/polizette/jared-kushners-bad-deals/

    Jared's real business is the business of losing $$$ apparently.

    Notice how Jared's "skills" only attract bidders inside his family tree. THERE ARE ZERO BIDS FOR JARED'S SKILLS FROM THE PUBLIC. There never have been. And this is the guy Trump has literally controlling the White House now.

    Wow, what a boneheaded move. Despite it’s fame (666 building, top of the sixes restaurant/club at the top), because of it’s age (built 1957), I don’t think that it can draw top rent.

    How the hell can one enter a real estate transaction knowing the rent will in no way come close to covering the loan? Dumb.

    Reminds me of the Canadian financier Robert Campbeau who ruined a fortuned and a lifetime’s work by way overpaying for Bloomingdales in the 1980s. Great businesses, but he so overpaid that he was bankrupt within months.

    Takes a special kind of hubris or stupidity to lose that much money so needlessly.

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  163. @Chrisnonymous
    Steve,
    Sorry for another OT comment, but I think many readers will be interested in/pleased with this:

    https://twitter.com/EHSANI22/status/852183604692230144


    Here are links to images of the document:

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C9OQdNCWAAAK2np.jpg

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C9OQdM8XgAIrV5n.jpg

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C9OQdNAXsAEpk4r.jpg

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C9OQdWGXgAABv8U.jpg

    ...what the country is now being told by the White House cannot be true...

     

    This is what I've been looking for--some forensic evidence that comports with the sensible intuitive notion that Assad was being set up. I hope it doesn't turn out to be, itself, a hoax.

    Leading CW expert Theodor Postol of MIT just published a 14-page document questioning WH claims that Sarin was dropped from #Syrian AF plane

    The only thing Prof. Postol is an expert in is anti-US military agitating.

    Back when Reagan was Prez, Postol opposed missile defense systems. He posited bogus notions of how decoys and flares were going to fool anti-missile missiles. Postol doesn’t seem to have gotten any smarter since then.

    Postol doesn’t know much of anything about military affairs, missile, or poison gas. He has a degree in physics, but he’s a professor of something-something public policy.

    Btw, I don’t think the recent cruise missile bombardment on Syria was a good idea.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Chrisnonymous
    Based on the Wikipedia article about him, I think you are overstating his unfamiliarity with the military. Do you think it's insignificant that the military finally agreed with his assessment that the success of patriot missile system was initially overstated?

    I'm very open to the idea that Assad is responsible, but it definitely doesn't make sense to me, so I'm open to the idea that he's not as well.

    I posted Postol's letter here because I was hoping someone could critique his analysis that the sarin container appears to have been blown up by something lying on top of it rather than from being dropped from the air.

    It concerns me that the DNI releases wishy-washy evidence and then says, "we also have intercepted phone conversations that corroborate, but we can't let you see them." That's true here, in the Russian-hack-gate, and in 2013 Gouta. But in 2013, at least one member of Congress who saw the classified report was skeptical, as were various parties who saw intercepted messages in Europe.

    Whenever I hear something like "operatives who deal in Sarin were identified at the airfield before the attack," I think back to the satellite images that Colin Powell showed us and the way they inappropriately extrapolated from those in order to draw conclusions about munitions being moved around. Without actually seeing intelligence, I don't have a lot of faith.

    Like the Russian comments immediately after the attack, the recent claim by Assad that everything was staged seems like a better argument in favor of his guilt.
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  164. @Romanian
    Yes, but I am not the only one who determines whether I have so many children. It would be a lot easier if such systemic change were to start to happen:
    - women might want to settle down earlier, rather than living the urbane life, especially in my social circle;
    - they might want bigger families. I might be foolishly wrong, but, from what I've heard from the girls, there's a trend in Romania where doctors get women to have C-sections because the procedures are a lot easier, whereas having the C-sections limits you to 2, 3 children tops before the risks become too great for subsequent births, and neither can you give birth naturally any more. So the doctors themselves are setting us up for normalizing low fertility;
    - not my case, but young people would find it easier to buy a home. Actually, my case too, I would have to switch to a bigger place;
    - the neighborhoods and culture would become friendlier for larger sized families. I can only imagine the nightmare of herding 5 kids of various ages anywhere. And neither will people be very considerate, unlike a more fertility friendly place;
    - the state would be friendlier to the larger family, along with various private actors, like the Church, making it easier as well;
    - ultimately, culture matters. If people feel like a big family is desirable, they will find it easier to have it or rationalize away the difficulties like they do irresponsible shopping. Right now, you're basically screaming low socio-economic status by having more than 2,3 kids.

    There's a lot that goes into this.

    Greece has one of the highest rates of c-sections in the world, and the reason is 1) doctors are paid considerably more for them than for vaginal births, whether via public or private sector 2) laziness in attending to women for many hours of labor, the natural labor process being devalued in Greek medicine 3) being so overworked due to staffing shortages that c-sections are the only way to see all your patients and not break down from exhaustion.

    No children yet, but I have a good handful of firsthand accounts from family and friends that during an even healthy pregnancy right up to labor, the prospective mothers were informed that a c-section was necessary due to some health problem – often not even hours and hours into labor, mind you, but shortly into it. And what is the mother going to do, refuse? Go against the doctor’s authority, potentially jeapardize her baby’s health or life, when she’s in her most vulnerable physical and mental state? Granted, there are many pregnancies where c-sections are advisable or even necessary. But 6 in 10 Greek mothers getting a c-section, there’s something terribly corrupt going on. Could any of this apply to Romania?

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    • Replies: @Romanian
    This sounds very similar, though I don't have the information to be sure. The part about being paid is not likely to stick, since the vast majority of people give birth in public hospitals, but maybe the customary gift/tip/bribe (they're paid very poorly, even though the job is high status, which is why so many emigrate) varies and C-sections cost more?
    , @benjaminl
    Hearing about similar incentives (convenience, economics) working perhaps less drastically here in the USA to create a ridiculously high rate of C sections, convinced my wife and my sister in law both to go with certified nurse midwives not hospitals for birth. They both became quite militant about it.
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  165. Cicero says:

    As Hanlon’s razor tells us “Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity”. Which I think is about 80% of the story here. The truth is, capitalism in modern Western nations is short-sighted and irrational, basically a form of cannibalism. Steady, long term profits are discarded for massive short-term payouts regardless of the negative effects to the surrounding society which is mercilessly devoured in the name of unlimited financial growth. In England, the birthplace of the modern banking/property development system, it has simply hit critical mass as a result of all of the poor decisions made in the post-Imperial era. However, there is too much inertia in place to derail this train. It is going to have to hit something good and hard and blow up before the survivors (however many there are) can pick up the pieces.

    That leaves us with the other 20%, the people who know all this and help these developments along to achieve their own agendas. You know, evil people who enjoy putting the screws to others for power, wealth, settling ethnic grudges , and whatever else. The survivors I mentioned above? They will have to keep an eye out when the train blows up, because the evil types will be waiting for them, looking to finish them off once and for all.

    If it makes the English feel even the slightest bit better, I think they have a better chance than the US. The compactness of the country and the urban/rural split has major liabilities in a major social upheaval, but it will make it easier to organize out of the chaos in the long run.

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    • Replies: @anon

    The truth is, capitalism in modern Western nations is short-sighted and irrational, basically a form of cannibalism. Steady, long term profits are discarded for massive short-term payouts regardless of the negative effects to the surrounding society which is mercilessly devoured in the name of unlimited financial growth.
     
    I think that's the gist of it - policy that makes a lot of money for the policy makers in the short term outweighs even obvious medium term downsides.
    , @ben tillman

    As Hanlon’s razor tells us “Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity”.
     
    I prefer to think that Hanlon is stupid rather than malicious. But that is a very stupid prescription.
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  166. @Nico

    Unaffordable housing has three main causes; insanely strict zoning laws, increased borrowing capacity and immigration.
     
    Increased borrowing capacity is also tightly related to the problem of massive trade deficits concentrating economic activity into the FIRE sector in a few well-plugged-in alpha world city cosmopolitan nodes.

    Good point, there seems to be a strong correlation between industrial decline and high real estate prices in big cities. Berlin is significantly cheaper than London, and all the Anglo countries have chronic trade deficits and very high real estate prices in the prosperous big cities.

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    • Replies: @Nico
    On a previous thread it was argued that business travel is justified by the need for personal interaction in order to conclude transactions. The gigantic city mania is closely related. In the FIRE sectors nearly all activity is centered around commercial transactions, thus the need to congregate in one area. Conversely, manufacturers of tangible goods have serious space and delivery logistics problems to work around and the constraints posed by large cosmopolitan urban conglomerates do not always make these a logical choice in which to set up shop, whatever their advantages as a commercial front.
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  167. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer

    https://www.vice.com/en_uk/article/every-flat-in-a-new-south-london-development-has-been-sold-to-foreign-investors

    Every Flat in a New South London Development Has Been Sold to Foreign Investors

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    • Replies: @anon
    The trade deficit caused by off-shoring means Chinese billionaires have nothing to buy from the West except the West itself - one acre at a time.

    The scale of the banking mafia's betrayal is immense.
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  168. Daniel H says:
    @Charles Erwin Wilson
    We need to import the conservative Brits to America to have families here. There should be a non-governmental way to do it. What is that way?

    >>We need to import the conservative Brits to America to have families here. There should be a non-governmental way to do it. What is that way?

    There are no, or very, very, very few, conservative Brits. The Tories are not conservative in any meaningful sense of the word. Importing “conservative” Brits would be just adding more Cucks to the soup. No thanks.

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    • Replies: @Nico

    There are no, or very, very, very few, conservative Brits.
     
    There might be more than you think, especially if you look outside London. The U.S. is certainly not behind the U.K. in mass illiteracy or P.C. multiculturalism and may in fact be rather ahead. Cuckheaded liberalism has become the way of things in formerly "normal" American suburbs and even many small towns; the cancer has certainly advanced a ways since I was a kid.
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  169. @Marina
    I don't now about Romania, but a lifetime limit of 3 c sections is absolutely not the case in the US any more. The trend in obstetrics has been toward transferring more of the risk to the mother over the infant during L+D, which means more c sections. I had a c with my first because the baby's heart rate dropped with every contraction. Now the baby might have been fine, but there was some small chance of brain damage due to oxygen deprivation. How much risk would you take on to avoid a c section, if your own child's future hung in the balance? Anyway, my OB says 6 is now doable, and he's done up to 10 on one woman, but beyond 6 you have to have gotten really lucky in how you heal.

    The bigger problem I see in America is:
    1. You can't do current middle class parenting norms beyond 3 kids.
    2. Outside of religious subcultures, motherhood is low status. People will do all sorts of nutty and illogical things to gain status.

    I don’t now about Romania, but a lifetime limit of 3 c sections is absolutely not the case in the US any more.

    US hospitals were over-using c-sections for a variety of reasons, but there has been a real push back on that. Many birthing centers boast about low c-section rates. Johnathan Bush, cousin of George W Bush, who started Athena Health Care, boasted about lowering c-section rates. This is a more actively understood and monitored issue.

    1. You can’t do current middle class parenting norms beyond 3 kids.

    Some parents do more. I know middle class parents with four kids and it’s hard.

    I know a low class mother who at a young age set a goal of having ten kids. She did it. One of children died in his late teenage years and she had a replacement, eleventh. She always worked, but did under the table hair braiding work, she literally never had an official job in her life. And she’s quite comfortable figuring out which government programs to use to pay her bills. It’s pretty horrible that she could just do that.

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    • Replies: @Romanian
    Is she... pale? That kind of single mindedness screams pallor. And, regardless of income, is she providing a good home in the sense of stable environment with a father figure?
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  170. @David Davenport
    Leading CW expert Theodor Postol of MIT just published a 14-page document questioning WH claims that Sarin was dropped from #Syrian AF plane

    The only thing Prof. Postol is an expert in is anti-US military agitating.

    Back when Reagan was Prez, Postol opposed missile defense systems. He posited bogus notions of how decoys and flares were going to fool anti-missile missiles. Postol doesn't seem to have gotten any smarter since then.

    Postol doesn't know much of anything about military affairs, missile, or poison gas. He has a degree in physics, but he's a professor of something-something public policy.

    Btw, I don't think the recent cruise missile bombardment on Syria was a good idea.

    Based on the Wikipedia article about him, I think you are overstating his unfamiliarity with the military. Do you think it’s insignificant that the military finally agreed with his assessment that the success of patriot missile system was initially overstated?

    I’m very open to the idea that Assad is responsible, but it definitely doesn’t make sense to me, so I’m open to the idea that he’s not as well.

    I posted Postol’s letter here because I was hoping someone could critique his analysis that the sarin container appears to have been blown up by something lying on top of it rather than from being dropped from the air.

    It concerns me that the DNI releases wishy-washy evidence and then says, “we also have intercepted phone conversations that corroborate, but we can’t let you see them.” That’s true here, in the Russian-hack-gate, and in 2013 Gouta. But in 2013, at least one member of Congress who saw the classified report was skeptical, as were various parties who saw intercepted messages in Europe.

    Whenever I hear something like “operatives who deal in Sarin were identified at the airfield before the attack,” I think back to the satellite images that Colin Powell showed us and the way they inappropriately extrapolated from those in order to draw conclusions about munitions being moved around. Without actually seeing intelligence, I don’t have a lot of faith.

    Like the Russian comments immediately after the attack, the recent claim by Assad that everything was staged seems like a better argument in favor of his guilt.

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  171. black sea says:

    Exempting the little statelets like Monaco and Malta, England is already the most densely populated country in Europe. It currently has a population of about 420 people per sq. km. For purposes of comparison, New York state has 162 per sq. km, and California 97. England is roughly the size of Alabama, but has more than 11 times as many people.

    Maybe people — or at least Euro-derived people — just don’t feel much of an impulse to procreate under such crowded conditions.

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    • Replies: @Formerly CARealist
    That was exactly my thought when we toured Rome. Crowded, crowded and everybody drives a tiny car or rides a motor scooter. There's simply no room for a kid (let alone kids) in daily life.

    My sister visited Vietnam and said the parents ride around on little motorcycles there too. But the three kids are expected to hang on to Dad or the handle bars during the trip. I guess Europeans aren't into such risks.

    http://journal.goingslowly.com/2010/12/into-ho-chi-minh-city
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  172. @Erik L
    Anyone else think it's nuts that you can buy a home in a country you aren't a citizen of? Okay maybe that's not too nuts but surely we can agree there is no reason to allow someone living in China to buy homes in California.

    The second thing I feel certain must be the root cause of the housing mess is printing too much money

    Australia lets foreigner investors buy newly built properties. If a foreigner resides in Australia they can buy an older home to personally live in and have to sell once they no longer reside in Australia.

    Loans cause money to be printed, not the other way around.

    Most of the money in our economy is created by banks, in the form of bank deposits – the numbers that appear in your account. Banks create new money whenever they make loans. 97% of the money in the economy today is created by banks, whilst just 3% is created by the government. This short video explains:

    http://positivemoney.org/how-money-works/how-banks-create-money/

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  173. @Formerly CARealist
    Yes, borrowing money at low interest rates makes people take on more debt than they can manage.

    Three of my neighbors got themselves into mortgages that they really can't get out of. Even now the homes aren't worth what they borrowed back in 2007. So? They rent because they can't afford to sell. Now my neighborhood is filled with renters that don't really care about the homes. Tons of people living in these homes in order to pay the rent, tons of cars.

    500k homes filled with semi-trashy renters. Lovely, as the Brits would say.

    How much do I have to pay for a NorCal home to get away from renters?

    The Chinese are buying homes NorCal homes as investments and leaving them vacant. You won’t have trashy renters next door, but you will probably need to volunteer and do the neighbor’s yard maintenance for free if you don’t want to look at the overgrown weeds.

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  174. Romanian says: • Website
    @AnotherGuessModel
    Greece has one of the highest rates of c-sections in the world, and the reason is 1) doctors are paid considerably more for them than for vaginal births, whether via public or private sector 2) laziness in attending to women for many hours of labor, the natural labor process being devalued in Greek medicine 3) being so overworked due to staffing shortages that c-sections are the only way to see all your patients and not break down from exhaustion.

    No children yet, but I have a good handful of firsthand accounts from family and friends that during an even healthy pregnancy right up to labor, the prospective mothers were informed that a c-section was necessary due to some health problem - often not even hours and hours into labor, mind you, but shortly into it. And what is the mother going to do, refuse? Go against the doctor's authority, potentially jeapardize her baby's health or life, when she's in her most vulnerable physical and mental state? Granted, there are many pregnancies where c-sections are advisable or even necessary. But 6 in 10 Greek mothers getting a c-section, there's something terribly corrupt going on. Could any of this apply to Romania?

    This sounds very similar, though I don’t have the information to be sure. The part about being paid is not likely to stick, since the vast majority of people give birth in public hospitals, but maybe the customary gift/tip/bribe (they’re paid very poorly, even though the job is high status, which is why so many emigrate) varies and C-sections cost more?

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  175. Wilkey says:
    @biz
    That's silly. For a genocide to be happening, a population needs to decline at a rapid rate, not grow at a slower rate than it otherwise would have due to individuals' personal and economic choices.

    Why not just say what is true, which iSteve basically did?

    For a genocide to be happening, a population needs to decline at a rapid rate, not grow at a slower rate than it otherwise would have due to individuals’ personal and economic choices.

    The TFR in the UK is 1.81 children per women. That includes subgroups – Pakistanis, Bangladeshis, Somalis, etc – who breed at far higher rates. Look only at native British women and the TFR is probably 1.6 or less. That is a lot lower than the 2.1 TFR required for simple population replacement. That means the native-born British population is shrinking.

    Genocide, rapidly or slowly, is still genocide, and that’s what is happening all across the West.

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    • Replies: @benjaminl
    I might be in the minority here, but I think "genocide" should be reserved for cases where actual violent killing is happening.

    http://www.news.com.au/finance/economy/world-economy/bury-them-alive-white-south-africans-fear-for-their-future-as-horrific-farm-attacks-escalate/news-story/3a63389a1b0066b6b0b77522c06d6476


    To be clear, I do agree that the situation you describe is a terrible, existential problem.
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  176. Wilkey says:
    @anon
    one cause of printing too much money* is a side effect of the banking mafia's off shoring of the economy

    it lead to the US having a massive trade deficit and you have to trade something for the imports - the US trades dollars

    which is one of the causes of house price rises* as China has all these dollars but the US doesn't produce enough to sell - so China are trading their worthless dollars for the only thing the US has left - land and property

    thanks to the banking mafia the US is paying for their iphones in acres

    (*there are others)

    thanks to the banking mafia the US is paying for their iphones in acres

    When the Puritans settled New England they would sell a single rifle to the Indians for dozens of acres of land. The Puritans got land. The Indians got objects that were easily produced at a rate they could not fathom. Kinda like Americans and our iPhones.

    There is one difference, however: just because a Chinese man buys a home here that doesn’t mean we have to ever let him live in it. We don’t even have to grant him a visa to visit it, if we choose not to. It can stay empty or be used purely as rental property.

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  177. Romanian says: • Website
    @Opinionator
    What systemic changes do you seek?

    Well, as Marina said in the other reply, one of the most important things is to make motherhood and larger families high status again. That’s a systemic change if I ever saw one. In parallel, there are a number of measures the state can take, though none beat an optimistic and growing economy.

    Another issue that I think cannot be neglected is what other people said here, and works for Romania as well, which is that rising home prices are a transfer from the young to the old, to the detriment of the former’s fertility. We have very high prices around here (and downpayments between 15-40%), when compared to the salaries, and they have remained high, even after the bursting of the bubble. We have a homeowner society, and the mentality to go with it. Nobody ever gives birth while renting. Period. Even when the state tried to help young people with the collateral guarantees for first time home-buyers, within a price limit, what happened was that prices went up to reflect that the youngsters could borrow more. Some communes (collections of villages centrally run from the largest) offer free land to young people from village property to build a house, but who wants to live in the sticks? Not a lot of people, because there isn’t a lot of opportunity, job-wise, and you also think of amenities like good schools. Rural schooling is awful in Romania.

    What is needed is a masked generational transfer of wealth by crashing housing prices. Either the state starts building middle class social housing, like the Swedes did in the 1960s, to glut the market, or it acts to eliminate the factors pushing home loans upwards, or it acts on limiting outside buyers coming to the major cities. This is especially important because we’re talking about promoting births in the middle and upper classes especially here, because they are the most likely to be low fertility. Just a quarter of a million people in Romania make over 1000 euros a month, but a decently placed Communist flat of 500 sq ft (2 bedrooms) will cost 70k, post-bubble, and there’s another bubble forming as we speak. Even so, there is a psychological cost associated with cramped Communist housing. The private home building market has taken its cues from what the overwhelming stock of housing looks like, so sizes of apartments in new buildings are similar. How will a middle class family have 2-3 children in a two bedroom flat? One of the most widespread stereotypes about Gypsies is that they all live out of a single room, even when they have a palace, so it screams declassee. So, this theoretical building glut from the state would sell the apartments near cost to people wanting larger families, maybe even contractually (restricting resale for a few years, with the anticipated difference being a nest egg), but would also have to be larger, to change the market composition. Even houses in the new suburbs are 600 sq ft with 2 bedrooms :))). At the current building costs, you could sell an apartment 2-3 times the size of a communist built one at the same price (the land is not factored in). Meanwhile, what housing is built is either devoted to subsidized rent or sold near market prices, but it is neither very appealing, nor is it a useful push in composition. As an example, the state built 1000 apartments in a pretty well located complex – only 30 of the units were two bedroom flats, the rest were studios (overwhelmingly) and one bedroom flats.

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  178. Romanian says: • Website
    @Marina
    I don't now about Romania, but a lifetime limit of 3 c sections is absolutely not the case in the US any more. The trend in obstetrics has been toward transferring more of the risk to the mother over the infant during L+D, which means more c sections. I had a c with my first because the baby's heart rate dropped with every contraction. Now the baby might have been fine, but there was some small chance of brain damage due to oxygen deprivation. How much risk would you take on to avoid a c section, if your own child's future hung in the balance? Anyway, my OB says 6 is now doable, and he's done up to 10 on one woman, but beyond 6 you have to have gotten really lucky in how you heal.

    The bigger problem I see in America is:
    1. You can't do current middle class parenting norms beyond 3 kids.
    2. Outside of religious subcultures, motherhood is low status. People will do all sorts of nutty and illogical things to gain status.

    The girls told me that the doctors limit them to 2-3 tops. Maybe tech is better in the US? Post-natal care?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Marina
    Possibly. Are Romanians still doing vertical, rather than horizontal Caesareans? Vertical ones heal worse, and once you get one, you must never, ever, ever go into labor again. My MIL was stopped at two vertical c's. With a horizontal, you get a shot at having vaginal deliveries with future children and barring extraordinary circumstances, they now do horizontal ones in the US and Canada.

    The only experience I have with Romanian obstetrics is an OB I know who was sued by a Romanian woman. She came into an American hospital in labor and didn't speak English and a translator could not be found fast enough. Her old incision, upon inspection, appeared to be horizontal, and the OB thought she'd indicated her last C was horizontal, so allowed a trial of labor. Turns out the actual cut in the uterus was vertical, and she ruptured, and sued for malpractice. If Romania is still doing vertical c sections on the regular, that would explain the lifetime limits.
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  179. Nico says:
    @unpc downunder
    Good point, there seems to be a strong correlation between industrial decline and high real estate prices in big cities. Berlin is significantly cheaper than London, and all the Anglo countries have chronic trade deficits and very high real estate prices in the prosperous big cities.

    On a previous thread it was argued that business travel is justified by the need for personal interaction in order to conclude transactions. The gigantic city mania is closely related. In the FIRE sectors nearly all activity is centered around commercial transactions, thus the need to congregate in one area. Conversely, manufacturers of tangible goods have serious space and delivery logistics problems to work around and the constraints posed by large cosmopolitan urban conglomerates do not always make these a logical choice in which to set up shop, whatever their advantages as a commercial front.

    Read More
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  180. Romanian says: • Website
    @Massimo Heitor

    I don’t now about Romania, but a lifetime limit of 3 c sections is absolutely not the case in the US any more.
     
    US hospitals were over-using c-sections for a variety of reasons, but there has been a real push back on that. Many birthing centers boast about low c-section rates. Johnathan Bush, cousin of George W Bush, who started Athena Health Care, boasted about lowering c-section rates. This is a more actively understood and monitored issue.

    1. You can’t do current middle class parenting norms beyond 3 kids.

     

    Some parents do more. I know middle class parents with four kids and it's hard.

    I know a low class mother who at a young age set a goal of having ten kids. She did it. One of children died in his late teenage years and she had a replacement, eleventh. She always worked, but did under the table hair braiding work, she literally never had an official job in her life. And she's quite comfortable figuring out which government programs to use to pay her bills. It's pretty horrible that she could just do that.

    Is she… pale? That kind of single mindedness screams pallor. And, regardless of income, is she providing a good home in the sense of stable environment with a father figure?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Massimo Heitor

    Is she… pale? That kind of single mindedness screams pallor. And, regardless of income, is she providing a good home in the sense of stable environment with a father figure?
     
    The underclass mother who had 10/11 kids? She is black. She's very ghetto. Apparently, she had a decent childhood, she was spoiled beyond her peers, and just set her mind on having ten children. Every one has a different father and I don't believe any of the fathers are involved but she does live with her kids and give them some emotional care. Other black people in the black underclass do not approve. They are not proud of this woman. They don't think she should have had so many kids. They don't care, it's not their life, but it's not something that has broad social endorsement.
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  181. Brutusale says:
    @donut
    He seems to be for real . Here is his wikpedia page .

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theodore_Postol

    In this day and age truth is in a constant state of flux .

    The Cathedral spent a lot of time trying to discredit Postol after his scathing critique of the Patriot anti-missile system after Gulf War I. Turned out he was correct all along.

    Read More
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  182. Nico says:
    @Daniel H
    >>We need to import the conservative Brits to America to have families here. There should be a non-governmental way to do it. What is that way?

    There are no, or very, very, very few, conservative Brits. The Tories are not conservative in any meaningful sense of the word. Importing "conservative" Brits would be just adding more Cucks to the soup. No thanks.

    There are no, or very, very, very few, conservative Brits.

    There might be more than you think, especially if you look outside London. The U.S. is certainly not behind the U.K. in mass illiteracy or P.C. multiculturalism and may in fact be rather ahead. Cuckheaded liberalism has become the way of things in formerly “normal” American suburbs and even many small towns; the cancer has certainly advanced a ways since I was a kid.

    Read More
    • Replies: @LondonBob
    The US, especially under Obama was the spearhead of ultra leftism. As John O'Sullivan remarked, for much of the world's left the US is utopia. A large part of the hysteria surrounding Trump is this has been reversed.
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  183. Brutusale says:
    @Marina
    Elizabeth Warren's book back before she was a senator talks about this. It's called The Two Income Trap and it's pretty good.

    Opinions vary, usually by strict party lines.

    Read More
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  184. @anon
    Brexiteers voted to stop mass immigration.

    Philip Owen says: “And yet Brexiteers voted to keep out the Poles and let in the Indians (the price of a trade deal).”
    Anon says: “Brexiteers voted to stop mass immigration.”

    Brexiteers voted to leave the “European Union” because that was the question on the ballot paper. The British electorate has never been invited to vote on the issue of mass immigration.

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  185. LondonBob says:
    @CC
    Strict zoning/land use regulation really is a problem in England though. The inner 23 wards of Tokyo average more housing starts in a year than the entire UK, and Japan has a shrinking population.

    Jap housing isn’t built to last, earthquake land so understandable, how many homes are over 100 years old? We do a lot of conversions and expanding existing residences.

    Frankly restrictive planning laws mean we face the consequences of mass immigration rather than delaying it sooner, hopefully we then act on it early enough.

    Read More
    • Replies: @anon

    Frankly restrictive planning laws mean we face the consequences of mass immigration rather than delaying it sooner, hopefully we then act on it early enough.
     
    Yes. That's why people who support mass immigration want to get rid of the planning laws - a bit of steam relief for the boiling pot.
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  186. LondonBob says:
    @The Millennial Falcon
    Mother-in-law suites are increasingly a thing. Real estate prices eventually crack even the Anglo-Saxons.

    Granny flats are more common now, true. Although they still need to have separate living areas.

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  187. LondonBob says:
    @Nico

    There are no, or very, very, very few, conservative Brits.
     
    There might be more than you think, especially if you look outside London. The U.S. is certainly not behind the U.K. in mass illiteracy or P.C. multiculturalism and may in fact be rather ahead. Cuckheaded liberalism has become the way of things in formerly "normal" American suburbs and even many small towns; the cancer has certainly advanced a ways since I was a kid.

    The US, especially under Obama was the spearhead of ultra leftism. As John O’Sullivan remarked, for much of the world’s left the US is utopia. A large part of the hysteria surrounding Trump is this has been reversed.

    Read More
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  188. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @Marina
    I don't now about Romania, but a lifetime limit of 3 c sections is absolutely not the case in the US any more. The trend in obstetrics has been toward transferring more of the risk to the mother over the infant during L+D, which means more c sections. I had a c with my first because the baby's heart rate dropped with every contraction. Now the baby might have been fine, but there was some small chance of brain damage due to oxygen deprivation. How much risk would you take on to avoid a c section, if your own child's future hung in the balance? Anyway, my OB says 6 is now doable, and he's done up to 10 on one woman, but beyond 6 you have to have gotten really lucky in how you heal.

    The bigger problem I see in America is:
    1. You can't do current middle class parenting norms beyond 3 kids.
    2. Outside of religious subcultures, motherhood is low status. People will do all sorts of nutty and illogical things to gain status.

    If a population of women genuinely needs C-sections at a rate more than perhaps three or four percent, you have an unbirthworthy herd, to put it bluntly. Either too many are too old or too many have too narrow a pelvis and birth canal.

    I don’t think most C-sections are really necessary. I also think thet routine electronic fetal monitoring is largely a scheme to get the C-section rate up and sell expensive electroonics. More to the point, several of my circle of electronic geeks, ham radio operators and tube amp tinkerers, are themselves current or former biomed techs and/or HP/Agilent biomed sales people and they tell me this. EFM was sold as revenue generators, just lilke police speed radar equipment was to cops and small town governments.

    I’m absolutely convinced that routine hospitalization of childbirth is a bad idea and going back to home birth is necessary, desirable and safe. At a minimum, thirty or forty percent of babies should be born at home.

    This means accurately assessing women pre-pregnancy for likely problems and it means a paradigm shift. I think when it happens, the C section rate will go to about ten percent overnight and stay there.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Jack Hanson
    I would agree on the homebirth thing up until you have a baby with an APGAR of 0 and the only provider on hand is a duenna with a sack full of essential oils.

    Problem is a lot of times you don't know you're going to have a problem birth until it happens, and then you want the NICU team just down the hall.
    , @Marina
    There's definite issues with some women being unable to have kids naturally due to things like age, obesity, etc. The impression I get, though, is that the increased c section rate is being done to benefit the infants at the expense of the mothers. As a culture, we aren't willing to accept infants dying or being disabled due to birth injury. My c-section, and a lot of those done today, are done to protect the baby from a marginally higher risk of death or disability. I almost certainly would have been just fine with a natural delivery. My child would have died during birth or in the few weeks immediately after, absent things like c sections and safe, hygenic infant formula. Now maybe, for the sake of the herd, my kid should have had these medical services withheld and died, but that isn't the norm, it probably isn't a decision you'd make with your own family, and the infant in question is today the light of several people's lives.

    There ARE women who weight the risks differently. Mothering.com, which is a very, very crunchy, homebirth oriented forum, had to ban women from liveblogging their homebirths because so many people were being upset by, say, a 48 hour labor with a 42 weeks post dates baby ending in the death of the infant. I know a woman who has a learning disabled daughter because her homebirth followed by emergency hospital transfer and c-section resulted in the baby being anoxic for too long, and she sustained brain damage. In a hospital setting, the post dates baby would have been induced, and failing that, c-sectioned out long before his death, and the brain damaged girl would never have been allowed to reach that level of oxygen deprivation. Instead, the risk would be transferred to the mother in the form of a Caesarean.

    Infant death is MUCH more common among homebirthers and I can see why a culture, having the means to ameliorate that, chooses to.

    http://www.skepticalob.com/2011/05/cpms-include-midwives-who-damage-and.html
    , @Marina
    Not scientific, but here's an interesting data point. In this compilation of news articles about homebirth, there are 87 infants who die in late pregnancy or right after birth for only two dead mothers. We're doing all these c sections with an eye to benefiting the infants far more than their mothers. If you're a wealthy society, there are really worse things you can spend on than stopping babies from dying.

    http://hurtbyhomebirth.blogspot.com/p/homebirth-deaths-and-injuries-on-web.html
    , @3g4me
    Singapore also has/had an extremely high rate of Caesarean births, which the local doctors and overall culture encouraged. The Han Chinese women felt a Caesarean better protected their figure and was far more convenient. When I visited the local hospital [where the labor/delivery area was full to overflowing] it was silent as a tomb [Western ideas of "natural childbirth" were NOT en vogue]. And when I arrived well into labor for my first birth [somewhat unprepared 2 weeks before my due date] and made some noise, I received shocked looks and numerous admonishments of "Shhhh!"

    Some years later in the US for my second child, the only hospitals within 50 miles that granted certified nurse midwives hospital privileges were downtown, although luckily my labor [again 2 weeks early] started in the wee morning hours so we avoided traffic jams. Fortunate, because I gave birth about 35 minutes after arriving at the hospital. No fetal monitor, no drugs, no intervention - and I was 41.

    I would argue that a high level of Caesarean births in America is partly due, among obvious other factors, to the increase in non-White births. Same re levels of natural births and/or breastfeeding. Despite SJWs' love of all things mystical and holistic and presumed Oriental, they somehow have not adopted the traditional Han practice of seclusion and non-bathing for new mothers [it causes rheumatism and arthritis, don't you know] still prevalent in Singapore in the '90s. And don't forget the traditional new mother's meal of black chicken, which causes jaundice in breast-fed babies [a definite minority of children when we resided there].
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  189. @Anonymous
    If a population of women genuinely needs C-sections at a rate more than perhaps three or four percent, you have an unbirthworthy herd, to put it bluntly. Either too many are too old or too many have too narrow a pelvis and birth canal.

    I don't think most C-sections are really necessary. I also think thet routine electronic fetal monitoring is largely a scheme to get the C-section rate up and sell expensive electroonics. More to the point, several of my circle of electronic geeks, ham radio operators and tube amp tinkerers, are themselves current or former biomed techs and/or HP/Agilent biomed sales people and they tell me this. EFM was sold as revenue generators, just lilke police speed radar equipment was to cops and small town governments.

    I'm absolutely convinced that routine hospitalization of childbirth is a bad idea and going back to home birth is necessary, desirable and safe. At a minimum, thirty or forty percent of babies should be born at home.

    This means accurately assessing women pre-pregnancy for likely problems and it means a paradigm shift. I think when it happens, the C section rate will go to about ten percent overnight and stay there.

    I would agree on the homebirth thing up until you have a baby with an APGAR of 0 and the only provider on hand is a duenna with a sack full of essential oils.

    Problem is a lot of times you don’t know you’re going to have a problem birth until it happens, and then you want the NICU team just down the hall.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Right.

    I spent a lot of time measuring that it was only a half mile to the nearest emergency room.

    If you live in a less hospital-dense environment than Chicago's lakefront, you might want to go to the hospital early as a precaution.

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  190. @Jack Hanson
    I would agree on the homebirth thing up until you have a baby with an APGAR of 0 and the only provider on hand is a duenna with a sack full of essential oils.

    Problem is a lot of times you don't know you're going to have a problem birth until it happens, and then you want the NICU team just down the hall.

    Right.

    I spent a lot of time measuring that it was only a half mile to the nearest emergency room.

    If you live in a less hospital-dense environment than Chicago’s lakefront, you might want to go to the hospital early as a precaution.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Jack Hanson
    Yeah, the people who seem to advocate most for homebirth are the people who also have a doctor on standby it seems like.

    When things go bad in childbirth from my experiences, there's no just a little bad; either the mom, the baby, or both are circling the drain and you have to make some hard choices quickly.

    I don't know how many people have seen a neonatal code team go to work, but they make the ER code teams look like Boy Scouts trying to earn their first aid badge. Its worthwhile to give birth in a hospital , imho.
    , @Marina
    On homebirth forums, you'll see women planning one saying stuff like, "AND we're only 20 minutes from the hospital if something goes wrong!" 20 minutes (with no traffic, perfect weather, and the ability to immediately teleport yourself to the vehicle and begin driving and the hospital immediately ready to put you in for an emergency c section) is an eternity in labor and delivery. If the umbilical cord prolapses while you're in hospital, they can usually get the baby out in 5-10 minutes, dramatically improving the odds of a living, healthy, normal infant at the other end.
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  191. Marty T says:
    @Whiskey
    Trumps kids are his kids. They could land him in jail and he'd still back them. They are his kids. Bannon is just some guy.

    Nothing will change in the West BC elites and single women want pop replacement.

    The white single women betraying their people are bad, but the real enemy is the white MALE traitors and white knights. Women will do what they can get away with. They’re not naturally loyal. The women often don’t act right because the men are not united in making sure they do.

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  192. @Opinionator
    Doesn't the seller typically receive cash, whether the buyer obtains it via mortgage or not?

    Opi, A cash sale eliminates most of the time drag associated with a mortgage. In my son-in-law’s sale, the buyer offered cash, no home or radon inspection and a guarantee to close in less than 30 days.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Opinionator
    Thanks
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  193. @Steve Sailer
    Right.

    I spent a lot of time measuring that it was only a half mile to the nearest emergency room.

    If you live in a less hospital-dense environment than Chicago's lakefront, you might want to go to the hospital early as a precaution.

    Yeah, the people who seem to advocate most for homebirth are the people who also have a doctor on standby it seems like.

    When things go bad in childbirth from my experiences, there’s no just a little bad; either the mom, the baby, or both are circling the drain and you have to make some hard choices quickly.

    I don’t know how many people have seen a neonatal code team go to work, but they make the ER code teams look like Boy Scouts trying to earn their first aid badge. Its worthwhile to give birth in a hospital , imho.

    Read More
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  194. @black sea
    Exempting the little statelets like Monaco and Malta, England is already the most densely populated country in Europe. It currently has a population of about 420 people per sq. km. For purposes of comparison, New York state has 162 per sq. km, and California 97. England is roughly the size of Alabama, but has more than 11 times as many people.

    Maybe people -- or at least Euro-derived people -- just don't feel much of an impulse to procreate under such crowded conditions.

    That was exactly my thought when we toured Rome. Crowded, crowded and everybody drives a tiny car or rides a motor scooter. There’s simply no room for a kid (let alone kids) in daily life.

    My sister visited Vietnam and said the parents ride around on little motorcycles there too. But the three kids are expected to hang on to Dad or the handle bars during the trip. I guess Europeans aren’t into such risks.

    http://journal.goingslowly.com/2010/12/into-ho-chi-minh-city

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  195. benjaminl says:
    @Wilkey
    For a genocide to be happening, a population needs to decline at a rapid rate, not grow at a slower rate than it otherwise would have due to individuals’ personal and economic choices.

    The TFR in the UK is 1.81 children per women. That includes subgroups - Pakistanis, Bangladeshis, Somalis, etc - who breed at far higher rates. Look only at native British women and the TFR is probably 1.6 or less. That is a lot lower than the 2.1 TFR required for simple population replacement. That means the native-born British population is shrinking.

    Genocide, rapidly or slowly, is still genocide, and that's what is happening all across the West.

    I might be in the minority here, but I think “genocide” should be reserved for cases where actual violent killing is happening.

    http://www.news.com.au/finance/economy/world-economy/bury-them-alive-white-south-africans-fear-for-their-future-as-horrific-farm-attacks-escalate/news-story/3a63389a1b0066b6b0b77522c06d6476

    To be clear, I do agree that the situation you describe is a terrible, existential problem.

    Read More
    • Replies: @anon

    I might be in the minority here, but I think “genocide” should be reserved for cases where actual violent killing is happening.
     
    If you wait till the point of mass killing it will be too late. That's why the definition is pre-emptive.

    Much better to stick to the actual definition in the convention which iirc is law in most western countries: inflicting conditions of life intended to destroy in whole or in part an ethnic, racial, national or religious group

    (from memory)
    , @Opinionator
    How about simply calling instances of violent killing, "violent killing," and not genocide?
    , @Reg Cæsar

    I might be in the minority here, but I think “genocide” should be reserved for cases where actual violent killing is happening.
     
    So you discount one of the largest and most thorough genocides in history, that of the Afro-Mexicans. Steve did a column on that one, years ago.
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  196. benjaminl says:
    @AnotherGuessModel
    Greece has one of the highest rates of c-sections in the world, and the reason is 1) doctors are paid considerably more for them than for vaginal births, whether via public or private sector 2) laziness in attending to women for many hours of labor, the natural labor process being devalued in Greek medicine 3) being so overworked due to staffing shortages that c-sections are the only way to see all your patients and not break down from exhaustion.

    No children yet, but I have a good handful of firsthand accounts from family and friends that during an even healthy pregnancy right up to labor, the prospective mothers were informed that a c-section was necessary due to some health problem - often not even hours and hours into labor, mind you, but shortly into it. And what is the mother going to do, refuse? Go against the doctor's authority, potentially jeapardize her baby's health or life, when she's in her most vulnerable physical and mental state? Granted, there are many pregnancies where c-sections are advisable or even necessary. But 6 in 10 Greek mothers getting a c-section, there's something terribly corrupt going on. Could any of this apply to Romania?

    Hearing about similar incentives (convenience, economics) working perhaps less drastically here in the USA to create a ridiculously high rate of C sections, convinced my wife and my sister in law both to go with certified nurse midwives not hospitals for birth. They both became quite militant about it.

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  197. Marina says:
    @Romanian
    The girls told me that the doctors limit them to 2-3 tops. Maybe tech is better in the US? Post-natal care?

    Possibly. Are Romanians still doing vertical, rather than horizontal Caesareans? Vertical ones heal worse, and once you get one, you must never, ever, ever go into labor again. My MIL was stopped at two vertical c’s. With a horizontal, you get a shot at having vaginal deliveries with future children and barring extraordinary circumstances, they now do horizontal ones in the US and Canada.

    The only experience I have with Romanian obstetrics is an OB I know who was sued by a Romanian woman. She came into an American hospital in labor and didn’t speak English and a translator could not be found fast enough. Her old incision, upon inspection, appeared to be horizontal, and the OB thought she’d indicated her last C was horizontal, so allowed a trial of labor. Turns out the actual cut in the uterus was vertical, and she ruptured, and sued for malpractice. If Romania is still doing vertical c sections on the regular, that would explain the lifetime limits.

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  198. Marina says:
    @Anonymous
    If a population of women genuinely needs C-sections at a rate more than perhaps three or four percent, you have an unbirthworthy herd, to put it bluntly. Either too many are too old or too many have too narrow a pelvis and birth canal.

    I don't think most C-sections are really necessary. I also think thet routine electronic fetal monitoring is largely a scheme to get the C-section rate up and sell expensive electroonics. More to the point, several of my circle of electronic geeks, ham radio operators and tube amp tinkerers, are themselves current or former biomed techs and/or HP/Agilent biomed sales people and they tell me this. EFM was sold as revenue generators, just lilke police speed radar equipment was to cops and small town governments.

    I'm absolutely convinced that routine hospitalization of childbirth is a bad idea and going back to home birth is necessary, desirable and safe. At a minimum, thirty or forty percent of babies should be born at home.

    This means accurately assessing women pre-pregnancy for likely problems and it means a paradigm shift. I think when it happens, the C section rate will go to about ten percent overnight and stay there.

    There’s definite issues with some women being unable to have kids naturally due to things like age, obesity, etc. The impression I get, though, is that the increased c section rate is being done to benefit the infants at the expense of the mothers. As a culture, we aren’t willing to accept infants dying or being disabled due to birth injury. My c-section, and a lot of those done today, are done to protect the baby from a marginally higher risk of death or disability. I almost certainly would have been just fine with a natural delivery. My child would have died during birth or in the few weeks immediately after, absent things like c sections and safe, hygenic infant formula. Now maybe, for the sake of the herd, my kid should have had these medical services withheld and died, but that isn’t the norm, it probably isn’t a decision you’d make with your own family, and the infant in question is today the light of several people’s lives.

    There ARE women who weight the risks differently. Mothering.com, which is a very, very crunchy, homebirth oriented forum, had to ban women from liveblogging their homebirths because so many people were being upset by, say, a 48 hour labor with a 42 weeks post dates baby ending in the death of the infant. I know a woman who has a learning disabled daughter because her homebirth followed by emergency hospital transfer and c-section resulted in the baby being anoxic for too long, and she sustained brain damage. In a hospital setting, the post dates baby would have been induced, and failing that, c-sectioned out long before his death, and the brain damaged girl would never have been allowed to reach that level of oxygen deprivation. Instead, the risk would be transferred to the mother in the form of a Caesarean.

    Infant death is MUCH more common among homebirthers and I can see why a culture, having the means to ameliorate that, chooses to.

    http://www.skepticalob.com/2011/05/cpms-include-midwives-who-damage-and.html

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  199. Marina says:
    @Steve Sailer
    Right.

    I spent a lot of time measuring that it was only a half mile to the nearest emergency room.

    If you live in a less hospital-dense environment than Chicago's lakefront, you might want to go to the hospital early as a precaution.

    On homebirth forums, you’ll see women planning one saying stuff like, “AND we’re only 20 minutes from the hospital if something goes wrong!” 20 minutes (with no traffic, perfect weather, and the ability to immediately teleport yourself to the vehicle and begin driving and the hospital immediately ready to put you in for an emergency c section) is an eternity in labor and delivery. If the umbilical cord prolapses while you’re in hospital, they can usually get the baby out in 5-10 minutes, dramatically improving the odds of a living, healthy, normal infant at the other end.

    Read More
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  200. Marina says:
    @Anonymous
    If a population of women genuinely needs C-sections at a rate more than perhaps three or four percent, you have an unbirthworthy herd, to put it bluntly. Either too many are too old or too many have too narrow a pelvis and birth canal.

    I don't think most C-sections are really necessary. I also think thet routine electronic fetal monitoring is largely a scheme to get the C-section rate up and sell expensive electroonics. More to the point, several of my circle of electronic geeks, ham radio operators and tube amp tinkerers, are themselves current or former biomed techs and/or HP/Agilent biomed sales people and they tell me this. EFM was sold as revenue generators, just lilke police speed radar equipment was to cops and small town governments.

    I'm absolutely convinced that routine hospitalization of childbirth is a bad idea and going back to home birth is necessary, desirable and safe. At a minimum, thirty or forty percent of babies should be born at home.

    This means accurately assessing women pre-pregnancy for likely problems and it means a paradigm shift. I think when it happens, the C section rate will go to about ten percent overnight and stay there.

    Not scientific, but here’s an interesting data point. In this compilation of news articles about homebirth, there are 87 infants who die in late pregnancy or right after birth for only two dead mothers. We’re doing all these c sections with an eye to benefiting the infants far more than their mothers. If you’re a wealthy society, there are really worse things you can spend on than stopping babies from dying.

    http://hurtbyhomebirth.blogspot.com/p/homebirth-deaths-and-injuries-on-web.html

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  201. The sole issue Liberals will not compromise on is the urgent need to replace the White population of all nations with the Third World
    asaphttps://pbs.twimg.com/media/C8IKf0NVYAAu6Gs.jpg

    Immigration drives this unaffordability. It must be addressed and reversed.

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  202. @Art Deco
    The U.K. was not broken, it did not need to be fixed by mass replacement.

    During the period you make reference to, the country was suffering from sclerotic labor markets with unemployment rates stuck for years in the double-digits. You also had some wretched industrial disputes and a season of rioting.

    PBS has always been a conduit for British television and the material they were importing at the time (documentaries, dramas, comedy, &c) was suffused with narratives of decay. Films like High Hopes and comedy serials like Butterflies would be examples.

    Oh.
    So, the economic cycle is a reason to import millions of illiterate, hostile, welfare-grubbing third-worlders?
    Labor markets, unemployment, etc., can be corrected with the people on hand.
    And DNA studies show that “the people on hand” had been in that land since the last ice age. So they sort of have preferential rights to their little island.

    Of course, we need only look to the leaders of Labour Party who admitted to the malicious intent of their nasty open borders scheme.

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    • Replies: @Art Deco
    So, the economic cycle is a reason to import millions of illiterate, hostile, welfare-grubbing third-worlders?

    No, and irrelevant to my point. You offered an elegy to Britain as it was ca. 1985. Not sure what the man in the street in Britain was thinking in 1985, but the public discourse at that time would never have suggested that the times merited an elegy, nor the twenty years previous. The term 'British disease' was current in newspaper accounts ca. 1976 (around the time the British gov't was hustling for a loan from the IMF).
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  203. 3g4me says:
    @Anonymous
    If a population of women genuinely needs C-sections at a rate more than perhaps three or four percent, you have an unbirthworthy herd, to put it bluntly. Either too many are too old or too many have too narrow a pelvis and birth canal.

    I don't think most C-sections are really necessary. I also think thet routine electronic fetal monitoring is largely a scheme to get the C-section rate up and sell expensive electroonics. More to the point, several of my circle of electronic geeks, ham radio operators and tube amp tinkerers, are themselves current or former biomed techs and/or HP/Agilent biomed sales people and they tell me this. EFM was sold as revenue generators, just lilke police speed radar equipment was to cops and small town governments.

    I'm absolutely convinced that routine hospitalization of childbirth is a bad idea and going back to home birth is necessary, desirable and safe. At a minimum, thirty or forty percent of babies should be born at home.

    This means accurately assessing women pre-pregnancy for likely problems and it means a paradigm shift. I think when it happens, the C section rate will go to about ten percent overnight and stay there.

    Singapore also has/had an extremely high rate of Caesarean births, which the local doctors and overall culture encouraged. The Han Chinese women felt a Caesarean better protected their figure and was far more convenient. When I visited the local hospital [where the labor/delivery area was full to overflowing] it was silent as a tomb [Western ideas of "natural childbirth" were NOT en vogue]. And when I arrived well into labor for my first birth [somewhat unprepared 2 weeks before my due date] and made some noise, I received shocked looks and numerous admonishments of “Shhhh!”

    Some years later in the US for my second child, the only hospitals within 50 miles that granted certified nurse midwives hospital privileges were downtown, although luckily my labor [again 2 weeks early] started in the wee morning hours so we avoided traffic jams. Fortunate, because I gave birth about 35 minutes after arriving at the hospital. No fetal monitor, no drugs, no intervention – and I was 41.

    I would argue that a high level of Caesarean births in America is partly due, among obvious other factors, to the increase in non-White births. Same re levels of natural births and/or breastfeeding. Despite SJWs’ love of all things mystical and holistic and presumed Oriental, they somehow have not adopted the traditional Han practice of seclusion and non-bathing for new mothers [it causes rheumatism and arthritis, don't you know] still prevalent in Singapore in the ’90s. And don’t forget the traditional new mother’s meal of black chicken, which causes jaundice in breast-fed babies [a definite minority of children when we resided there].

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    • Replies: @Opinionator
    Fortunate, because I gave birth about 35 minutes after arriving at the hospital. No fetal monitor, no drugs, no intervention – and I was 41.

    Was it painful?

    they somehow have not adopted the traditional Han practice of seclusion and non-bathing for new mothers [it causes rheumatism and arthritis, don't you know] still prevalent in Singapore in the ’90s.

    Seclusion and nonbathing causes r and arthritis?

    And don’t forget the traditional new mother’s meal of black chicken, which causes jaundice in breast-fed babies [a definite minority of children when we resided there].

    Does it really?
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  204. anon says: • Disclaimer
    @Charles Erwin Wilson
    We need to import the conservative Brits to America to have families here. There should be a non-governmental way to do it. What is that way?

    if the US provides a lifeboat for Europeans then there’s less incentive to fight – there needs to be no way out.

    on the other hand it might bleed out all the weaklings leaving the best behind – but the last thing the US needs is more cucks. it would be like Californian SJWs moving to Oregon.

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  205. anon says: • Disclaimer
    @Cicero
    As Hanlon's razor tells us "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity". Which I think is about 80% of the story here. The truth is, capitalism in modern Western nations is short-sighted and irrational, basically a form of cannibalism. Steady, long term profits are discarded for massive short-term payouts regardless of the negative effects to the surrounding society which is mercilessly devoured in the name of unlimited financial growth. In England, the birthplace of the modern banking/property development system, it has simply hit critical mass as a result of all of the poor decisions made in the post-Imperial era. However, there is too much inertia in place to derail this train. It is going to have to hit something good and hard and blow up before the survivors (however many there are) can pick up the pieces.

    That leaves us with the other 20%, the people who know all this and help these developments along to achieve their own agendas. You know, evil people who enjoy putting the screws to others for power, wealth, settling ethnic grudges , and whatever else. The survivors I mentioned above? They will have to keep an eye out when the train blows up, because the evil types will be waiting for them, looking to finish them off once and for all.

    If it makes the English feel even the slightest bit better, I think they have a better chance than the US. The compactness of the country and the urban/rural split has major liabilities in a major social upheaval, but it will make it easier to organize out of the chaos in the long run.

    The truth is, capitalism in modern Western nations is short-sighted and irrational, basically a form of cannibalism. Steady, long term profits are discarded for massive short-term payouts regardless of the negative effects to the surrounding society which is mercilessly devoured in the name of unlimited financial growth.

    I think that’s the gist of it – policy that makes a lot of money for the policy makers in the short term outweighs even obvious medium term downsides.

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  206. anon says: • Disclaimer
    @Anonymous
    https://www.vice.com/en_uk/article/every-flat-in-a-new-south-london-development-has-been-sold-to-foreign-investors

    Every Flat in a New South London Development Has Been Sold to Foreign Investors
     

    The trade deficit caused by off-shoring means Chinese billionaires have nothing to buy from the West except the West itself – one acre at a time.

    The scale of the banking mafia’s betrayal is immense.

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  207. anon says: • Disclaimer
    @LondonBob
    Jap housing isn't built to last, earthquake land so understandable, how many homes are over 100 years old? We do a lot of conversions and expanding existing residences.

    Frankly restrictive planning laws mean we face the consequences of mass immigration rather than delaying it sooner, hopefully we then act on it early enough.

    Frankly restrictive planning laws mean we face the consequences of mass immigration rather than delaying it sooner, hopefully we then act on it early enough.

    Yes. That’s why people who support mass immigration want to get rid of the planning laws – a bit of steam relief for the boiling pot.

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  208. anon says: • Disclaimer
    @benjaminl
    I might be in the minority here, but I think "genocide" should be reserved for cases where actual violent killing is happening.

    http://www.news.com.au/finance/economy/world-economy/bury-them-alive-white-south-africans-fear-for-their-future-as-horrific-farm-attacks-escalate/news-story/3a63389a1b0066b6b0b77522c06d6476


    To be clear, I do agree that the situation you describe is a terrible, existential problem.

    I might be in the minority here, but I think “genocide” should be reserved for cases where actual violent killing is happening.

    If you wait till the point of mass killing it will be too late. That’s why the definition is pre-emptive.

    Much better to stick to the actual definition in the convention which iirc is law in most western countries: inflicting conditions of life intended to destroy in whole or in part an ethnic, racial, national or religious group

    (from memory)

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  209. @RadicalCenter
    Question is, do those nice Chinese, Korean, and Japanese "Americans" like you and yours? Will they give our kids --who are not Chinese, Korean, or Japanese -- a fair shake when hiring employees for their businesses? Are they organizing on a tribal/racial basis to gain political and economic power at our direct expense?

    Don't be naïve, man.

    I think you overestimate the tribalism of Asians; I certainly do hire whites, etc and I care for the competence of people a lot more than their race. I think there’s some truth that every “empire” such as the Chinese have had to learn to some extent to overcome pure ethnic tribalism, or else you wouldn’t have much of an empire. The invade/invite dynamic is reasonably true even in the ancient world. Rome had to extend citizenship to non-Romans, for example.

    The weakness of that mentality is that you can get influenced/pozzed by outside forces pretty easily, as Korean now can testify to. Rome certainly found out that once they caught Christianity, too, there was no removing it.

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    • Replies: @Corvinus
    "I certainly do hire whites, etc and I care for the competence of people a lot more than their race."

    You are certainly entitled to your opinion.
    , @Marty T
    You married a white woman so you have to deal with white people.
    , @Massimo Heitor

    I think you overestimate the tribalism of Asians; I certainly do hire whites, etc and I care for the competence of people a lot more than their race.
     
    I have a Chinese work manager and a Hindu Indian CEO. They are awesome people, awesome leaders, and mostly non-ethnically tribal, especially in a work setting. At a personal level, I'm sure they have some modest tribal tendencies. I'd be surprised if they married outside of their ethnic groups which isn't offensive.


    I think there’s some truth that every “empire” such as the Chinese have had to learn to some extent to overcome pure ethnic tribalism, or else you wouldn’t have much of an empire. The invade/invite dynamic is reasonably true even in the ancient world. Rome had to extend citizenship to non-Romans, for example.
     
    That's a wise comment, but the Chinese today are still very racist. There is some ethnic variation in China.
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  210. Wilkey says:

    England is about 50,000 square miles in size and has 54 million people. That’s pushing 1,100 people per square mile. That’s roughly the population density of the county I live in, Salt Lake County, Utah. The difference being that Salt Lake County is surrounded by a whole lot of open space. The Netherlands, also a popular immigrant destination, has a similar population density, but Germany is “only” 600 per square mile, Italy 520, France 300, and Austria 250.

    Yet the natives of England are being asked to bear immigration at a rate that is historically unprecedented, and often by people who are openly contemptuous of the natives yet who use welfare at far higher rates. The workforce participation rates of Somalis, Pakistanis, and Bangladeshis are barely half that of native Britons.

    Of course England is only one part of Great Britain, but the people of Scotland are apparently pissed that the country that bears most of the burden of EU immigration suddenly wants to exit the EU. Northern Ireland may not be part of Great Britain for very long, either.

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    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    The difference being that Salt Lake County is surrounded by a whole lot of open space.
     
    So are the British Isles. By the Atlantic, and the North Sea!
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  211. @benjaminl
    I might be in the minority here, but I think "genocide" should be reserved for cases where actual violent killing is happening.

    http://www.news.com.au/finance/economy/world-economy/bury-them-alive-white-south-africans-fear-for-their-future-as-horrific-farm-attacks-escalate/news-story/3a63389a1b0066b6b0b77522c06d6476


    To be clear, I do agree that the situation you describe is a terrible, existential problem.

    How about simply calling instances of violent killing, “violent killing,” and not genocide?

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  212. @Buffalo Joe
    Opi, A cash sale eliminates most of the time drag associated with a mortgage. In my son-in-law's sale, the buyer offered cash, no home or radon inspection and a guarantee to close in less than 30 days.

    Thanks

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  213. @3g4me
    Singapore also has/had an extremely high rate of Caesarean births, which the local doctors and overall culture encouraged. The Han Chinese women felt a Caesarean better protected their figure and was far more convenient. When I visited the local hospital [where the labor/delivery area was full to overflowing] it was silent as a tomb [Western ideas of "natural childbirth" were NOT en vogue]. And when I arrived well into labor for my first birth [somewhat unprepared 2 weeks before my due date] and made some noise, I received shocked looks and numerous admonishments of "Shhhh!"

    Some years later in the US for my second child, the only hospitals within 50 miles that granted certified nurse midwives hospital privileges were downtown, although luckily my labor [again 2 weeks early] started in the wee morning hours so we avoided traffic jams. Fortunate, because I gave birth about 35 minutes after arriving at the hospital. No fetal monitor, no drugs, no intervention - and I was 41.

    I would argue that a high level of Caesarean births in America is partly due, among obvious other factors, to the increase in non-White births. Same re levels of natural births and/or breastfeeding. Despite SJWs' love of all things mystical and holistic and presumed Oriental, they somehow have not adopted the traditional Han practice of seclusion and non-bathing for new mothers [it causes rheumatism and arthritis, don't you know] still prevalent in Singapore in the '90s. And don't forget the traditional new mother's meal of black chicken, which causes jaundice in breast-fed babies [a definite minority of children when we resided there].

    Fortunate, because I gave birth about 35 minutes after arriving at the hospital. No fetal monitor, no drugs, no intervention – and I was 41.

    Was it painful?

    they somehow have not adopted the traditional Han practice of seclusion and non-bathing for new mothers [it causes rheumatism and arthritis, don't you know] still prevalent in Singapore in the ’90s.

    Seclusion and nonbathing causes r and arthritis?

    And don’t forget the traditional new mother’s meal of black chicken, which causes jaundice in breast-fed babies [a definite minority of children when we resided there].

    Does it really?

    Read More
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  214. @Ivy
    Cash buyers can have shorter escrow periods since there isn't a financing contingency. You don't need to wonder if the buyer will qualify for a loan through some sketchy bank with its own daily headline problems, for example, so that removes some uncertainty from the process.

    Gotcha, thanks.

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  215. @Opinionator
    and I think, is part of the overall issues involving declining real income.

    Please explain.

    http://www.mybudget360.com/two-income-trap-dual-income-trap-household-income-middle-class-two-income-trap/

    But essentially, even as actual purchasing power decreased, the increase of female employment raised the income of family such that it disguised the fall of real income and citizens did not feel the pinch of declining living standards.

    This “trick” was replicated again later with easy credit, so even as purchasing power continued to fall, living standards again did not feel like they were decreasing: it just meant that more people would be in debt their entire life.

    I think the reckoning though, isn’t being put off much longer. At least part of the overall fracturing of society, I feel, is due to the realization that the overall pie is shrinking. Economic stresses also promote cults and religion, and since I see SJWism as a religion, well…

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  216. @anon

    Are those stats for white Britons only, or are the diverse affected too?
     
    there's a class element

    middle class of whatever ethnic group are effected more by the house prices

    welfare housing is a complicated mixture but skewed against both natives and least recent immigrants.

    (it's officially by need but if different groups have 1) a higher birth rate or 2) more single mothers or 3) lower moral barriers to defraud welfare then those groups get preference)

    #

    either way it's ultimately caused by mass immigration putting downward pressure on income and upward pressure on housing costs together squeezing disposable income

    The local councils are making plenty of cheap or free housing available to immigrants and refugeees, and they are breeding like rabbits. BTW, look at the welfare map of the UK, and the heaviest concentration is in Birmingham … go to Birmingham and you would think you were in Peshawar Pakistan before you even leave the airport.

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  217. @anon
    (anecdotal) south Asians who've been in the UK a while and got into the professional middle class are feeling similar effects (apparently)

    those running their own businesses and willing to defraud the welfare/tax system and using illegals as slave labor are doing fine

    refugees are getting priority and the 1st generation will have dozens of kids

    those already in the underclass do slightly better on housing than the native underclass cos racisms but not great because the situation is so bad

    (cf. white death, i'm predicting a big spike in suicide in the UK as homelessness becomes epidemic)

    It appears that Brit immigration services are (by design) incompetent. Until a year or two back they only recorded who’d come into the country, not who left.

    In the news at present is a little tale of one consequence. A Polish guy, homeless IIRC, is currently accused of raping and murdering a Sikh lady walking back from her hotel job in London.

    Turns out said lady and husband turned up here on a tourist visa years ago and just stayed – don’t ask me how they got the National Insurance numbers (like SS numbers) they needed to work, but there are loads of their coethnics in that part of London. If she’d not been murdered, they’d have stayed off the radar – how many millions more are there, if it’s that easy?

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  218. Art Deco says:
    @Sarah Toga
    Oh.
    So, the economic cycle is a reason to import millions of illiterate, hostile, welfare-grubbing third-worlders?
    Labor markets, unemployment, etc., can be corrected with the people on hand.
    And DNA studies show that "the people on hand" had been in that land since the last ice age. So they sort of have preferential rights to their little island.

    Of course, we need only look to the leaders of Labour Party who admitted to the malicious intent of their nasty open borders scheme.

    So, the economic cycle is a reason to import millions of illiterate, hostile, welfare-grubbing third-worlders?

    No, and irrelevant to my point. You offered an elegy to Britain as it was ca. 1985. Not sure what the man in the street in Britain was thinking in 1985, but the public discourse at that time would never have suggested that the times merited an elegy, nor the twenty years previous. The term ‘British disease’ was current in newspaper accounts ca. 1976 (around the time the British gov’t was hustling for a loan from the IMF).

    Read More
    • Replies: @Sarah Toga
    I was there.
    Were you?
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  219. Corvinus says:
    @RadicalCenter
    Question is, do those nice Chinese, Korean, and Japanese "Americans" like you and yours? Will they give our kids --who are not Chinese, Korean, or Japanese -- a fair shake when hiring employees for their businesses? Are they organizing on a tribal/racial basis to gain political and economic power at our direct expense?

    Don't be naïve, man.

    “Are they organizing on a tribal/racial basis to gain political and economic power at our direct expense?”

    Wow, the Alt Right has really done a number on you. Do you truly believe that each race/ethnic group is a rival, that each “tribe” seeks to dominate the other? Americans in general do not subscribe to that theory.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Massimo Heitor

    “Are they organizing on a tribal/racial basis to gain political and economic power at our direct expense?”

    Wow, the Alt Right has really done a number on you. Do you truly believe that each race/ethnic group is a rival, that each “tribe” seeks to dominate the other? Americans in general do not subscribe to that theory.
     
    American culture does look at voting patterns by ethnicity and does rather overtly acknowledge that each separate ethnic group has separate conflicting voting interests.

    A lot of US cities, like NYC, are multi-ethnicity and mixed as a whole, but are ethnically segregated within the city.

    Also, among kids in middle school and high school, normal kids have loyalty to their general ethnic group. I know a hispanic/mestizo high school teacher with a black baby daddy and I remember her telling me that in her mixed race high school, all the kids self-segregate by race. The adults bend over backwards to preach race-blind harmony and to promote inter-racial socialization among kids, but the kids self-segregate anyway.

    I don't think the alt-right is wrong. Ethnicity deeply matters to normal humans, even Americans.
    , @Anonymous
    There are different kinds of tribes - not all are racial or ethnic, some are religious, some are based on subcultures or interests, many especially nowadays are political
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  220. Corvinus says:
    @Daniel Chieh
    I think you overestimate the tribalism of Asians; I certainly do hire whites, etc and I care for the competence of people a lot more than their race. I think there's some truth that every "empire" such as the Chinese have had to learn to some extent to overcome pure ethnic tribalism, or else you wouldn't have much of an empire. The invade/invite dynamic is reasonably true even in the ancient world. Rome had to extend citizenship to non-Romans, for example.

    The weakness of that mentality is that you can get influenced/pozzed by outside forces pretty easily, as Korean now can testify to. Rome certainly found out that once they caught Christianity, too, there was no removing it.

    “I certainly do hire whites, etc and I care for the competence of people a lot more than their race.”

    You are certainly entitled to your opinion.

    Read More
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  221. @benjaminl
    I might be in the minority here, but I think "genocide" should be reserved for cases where actual violent killing is happening.

    http://www.news.com.au/finance/economy/world-economy/bury-them-alive-white-south-africans-fear-for-their-future-as-horrific-farm-attacks-escalate/news-story/3a63389a1b0066b6b0b77522c06d6476


    To be clear, I do agree that the situation you describe is a terrible, existential problem.

    I might be in the minority here, but I think “genocide” should be reserved for cases where actual violent killing is happening.

    So you discount one of the largest and most thorough genocides in history, that of the Afro-Mexicans. Steve did a column on that one, years ago.

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  222. @Wilkey
    England is about 50,000 square miles in size and has 54 million people. That's pushing 1,100 people per square mile. That's roughly the population density of the county I live in, Salt Lake County, Utah. The difference being that Salt Lake County is surrounded by a whole lot of open space. The Netherlands, also a popular immigrant destination, has a similar population density, but Germany is "only" 600 per square mile, Italy 520, France 300, and Austria 250.

    Yet the natives of England are being asked to bear immigration at a rate that is historically unprecedented, and often by people who are openly contemptuous of the natives yet who use welfare at far higher rates. The workforce participation rates of Somalis, Pakistanis, and Bangladeshis are barely half that of native Britons.

    Of course England is only one part of Great Britain, but the people of Scotland are apparently pissed that the country that bears most of the burden of EU immigration suddenly wants to exit the EU. Northern Ireland may not be part of Great Britain for very long, either.

    The difference being that Salt Lake County is surrounded by a whole lot of open space.

    So are the British Isles. By the Atlantic, and the North Sea!

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  223. Marty T says:
    @Daniel Chieh
    I think you overestimate the tribalism of Asians; I certainly do hire whites, etc and I care for the competence of people a lot more than their race. I think there's some truth that every "empire" such as the Chinese have had to learn to some extent to overcome pure ethnic tribalism, or else you wouldn't have much of an empire. The invade/invite dynamic is reasonably true even in the ancient world. Rome had to extend citizenship to non-Romans, for example.

    The weakness of that mentality is that you can get influenced/pozzed by outside forces pretty easily, as Korean now can testify to. Rome certainly found out that once they caught Christianity, too, there was no removing it.

    You married a white woman so you have to deal with white people.

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  224. @Romanian
    Is she... pale? That kind of single mindedness screams pallor. And, regardless of income, is she providing a good home in the sense of stable environment with a father figure?

    Is she… pale? That kind of single mindedness screams pallor. And, regardless of income, is she providing a good home in the sense of stable environment with a father figure?

    The underclass mother who had 10/11 kids? She is black. She’s very ghetto. Apparently, she had a decent childhood, she was spoiled beyond her peers, and just set her mind on having ten children. Every one has a different father and I don’t believe any of the fathers are involved but she does live with her kids and give them some emotional care. Other black people in the black underclass do not approve. They are not proud of this woman. They don’t think she should have had so many kids. They don’t care, it’s not their life, but it’s not something that has broad social endorsement.

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  225. @Corvinus
    "Are they organizing on a tribal/racial basis to gain political and economic power at our direct expense?"

    Wow, the Alt Right has really done a number on you. Do you truly believe that each race/ethnic group is a rival, that each "tribe" seeks to dominate the other? Americans in general do not subscribe to that theory.

    “Are they organizing on a tribal/racial basis to gain political and economic power at our direct expense?”

    Wow, the Alt Right has really done a number on you. Do you truly believe that each race/ethnic group is a rival, that each “tribe” seeks to dominate the other? Americans in general do not subscribe to that theory.

    American culture does look at voting patterns by ethnicity and does rather overtly acknowledge that each separate ethnic group has separate conflicting voting interests.

    A lot of US cities, like NYC, are multi-ethnicity and mixed as a whole, but are ethnically segregated within the city.

    Also, among kids in middle school and high school, normal kids have loyalty to their general ethnic group. I know a hispanic/mestizo high school teacher with a black baby daddy and I remember her telling me that in her mixed race high school, all the kids self-segregate by race. The adults bend over backwards to preach race-blind harmony and to promote inter-racial socialization among kids, but the kids self-segregate anyway.

    I don’t think the alt-right is wrong. Ethnicity deeply matters to normal humans, even Americans.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Corvinus
    "American culture does look at voting patterns by ethnicity and does rather overtly acknowledge that each separate ethnic group has separate conflicting voting interests."

    Based on ideology and personal preferences.

    "A lot of US cities, like NYC, are multi-ethnicity and mixed as a whole, but are ethnically segregated within the city."

    Yet, interact and intermingle with one another on a daily basis. In addition, that segregation is also a result of socio-economic standing.

    "Also, among kids in middle school and high school, normal kids have loyalty to their general ethnic group. I know a hispanic/mestizo high school teacher with a black baby daddy and I remember her telling me that in her mixed race high school, all the kids self-segregate by race."

    At the lunch table or after school. In the classroom? No. On the sports field? No. In their friendships and relationships? No.
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  226. @Daniel Chieh
    I think you overestimate the tribalism of Asians; I certainly do hire whites, etc and I care for the competence of people a lot more than their race. I think there's some truth that every "empire" such as the Chinese have had to learn to some extent to overcome pure ethnic tribalism, or else you wouldn't have much of an empire. The invade/invite dynamic is reasonably true even in the ancient world. Rome had to extend citizenship to non-Romans, for example.

    The weakness of that mentality is that you can get influenced/pozzed by outside forces pretty easily, as Korean now can testify to. Rome certainly found out that once they caught Christianity, too, there was no removing it.

    I think you overestimate the tribalism of Asians; I certainly do hire whites, etc and I care for the competence of people a lot more than their race.

    I have a Chinese work manager and a Hindu Indian CEO. They are awesome people, awesome leaders, and mostly non-ethnically tribal, especially in a work setting. At a personal level, I’m sure they have some modest tribal tendencies. I’d be surprised if they married outside of their ethnic groups which isn’t offensive.

    I think there’s some truth that every “empire” such as the Chinese have had to learn to some extent to overcome pure ethnic tribalism, or else you wouldn’t have much of an empire. The invade/invite dynamic is reasonably true even in the ancient world. Rome had to extend citizenship to non-Romans, for example.

    That’s a wise comment, but the Chinese today are still very racist. There is some ethnic variation in China.

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  227. @Cicero
    As Hanlon's razor tells us "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity". Which I think is about 80% of the story here. The truth is, capitalism in modern Western nations is short-sighted and irrational, basically a form of cannibalism. Steady, long term profits are discarded for massive short-term payouts regardless of the negative effects to the surrounding society which is mercilessly devoured in the name of unlimited financial growth. In England, the birthplace of the modern banking/property development system, it has simply hit critical mass as a result of all of the poor decisions made in the post-Imperial era. However, there is too much inertia in place to derail this train. It is going to have to hit something good and hard and blow up before the survivors (however many there are) can pick up the pieces.

    That leaves us with the other 20%, the people who know all this and help these developments along to achieve their own agendas. You know, evil people who enjoy putting the screws to others for power, wealth, settling ethnic grudges , and whatever else. The survivors I mentioned above? They will have to keep an eye out when the train blows up, because the evil types will be waiting for them, looking to finish them off once and for all.

    If it makes the English feel even the slightest bit better, I think they have a better chance than the US. The compactness of the country and the urban/rural split has major liabilities in a major social upheaval, but it will make it easier to organize out of the chaos in the long run.

    As Hanlon’s razor tells us “Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity”.

    I prefer to think that Hanlon is stupid rather than malicious. But that is a very stupid prescription.

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  228. @Erik L
    Anyone else think it's nuts that you can buy a home in a country you aren't a citizen of? Okay maybe that's not too nuts but surely we can agree there is no reason to allow someone living in China to buy homes in California.

    The second thing I feel certain must be the root cause of the housing mess is printing too much money

    Agreed. Chinese I think are also a factor in high cost of housing in UK.

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  229. Corvinus says:
    @Massimo Heitor

    “Are they organizing on a tribal/racial basis to gain political and economic power at our direct expense?”

    Wow, the Alt Right has really done a number on you. Do you truly believe that each race/ethnic group is a rival, that each “tribe” seeks to dominate the other? Americans in general do not subscribe to that theory.
     
    American culture does look at voting patterns by ethnicity and does rather overtly acknowledge that each separate ethnic group has separate conflicting voting interests.

    A lot of US cities, like NYC, are multi-ethnicity and mixed as a whole, but are ethnically segregated within the city.

    Also, among kids in middle school and high school, normal kids have loyalty to their general ethnic group. I know a hispanic/mestizo high school teacher with a black baby daddy and I remember her telling me that in her mixed race high school, all the kids self-segregate by race. The adults bend over backwards to preach race-blind harmony and to promote inter-racial socialization among kids, but the kids self-segregate anyway.

    I don't think the alt-right is wrong. Ethnicity deeply matters to normal humans, even Americans.

    “American culture does look at voting patterns by ethnicity and does rather overtly acknowledge that each separate ethnic group has separate conflicting voting interests.”

    Based on ideology and personal preferences.

    “A lot of US cities, like NYC, are multi-ethnicity and mixed as a whole, but are ethnically segregated within the city.”

    Yet, interact and intermingle with one another on a daily basis. In addition, that segregation is also a result of socio-economic standing.

    “Also, among kids in middle school and high school, normal kids have loyalty to their general ethnic group. I know a hispanic/mestizo high school teacher with a black baby daddy and I remember her telling me that in her mixed race high school, all the kids self-segregate by race.”

    At the lunch table or after school. In the classroom? No. On the sports field? No. In their friendships and relationships? No.

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  230. @anon

    Are those stats for white Britons only, or are the diverse affected too?
     
    there's a class element

    middle class of whatever ethnic group are effected more by the house prices

    welfare housing is a complicated mixture but skewed against both natives and least recent immigrants.

    (it's officially by need but if different groups have 1) a higher birth rate or 2) more single mothers or 3) lower moral barriers to defraud welfare then those groups get preference)

    #

    either way it's ultimately caused by mass immigration putting downward pressure on income and upward pressure on housing costs together squeezing disposable income

    Also, low interest rates for some long causes housing prices to rise. Its happening in the US even with areas with little immigration. What real estate people do with low interest rates is jack up prices more than if the interest rates were higher, Great Britain has had low interest rates for years. Also, having a lot of kids is no solution either since it makes labor costs low one reason that Central Americans pour into the US since there are less jobs available for a young population. Another reason that generation M is very politically left in the US like the older baby boomers were a lot of job competition. Gen-x a smaller generation didn’t have the job competition. A better idea is not tell every white person to moved to Texas because its cheaper than California but to moved to rural Idaho since their is still a lot of open spaces and its sparely populated. Rural areas more than urban and suburban areas are better for more kids.

    Read More
    • Replies: @ben tillman

    Another reason that generation M is very politically left in the US like the older baby boomers were a lot of job competition. Gen-x a smaller generation didn’t have the job competition.
     
    I think that's backward. The Boomers faced less competition because of the small size of the previous cohort. They were almost filling a void. By the time the X-ers came around, the employment market had been saturated by the Boomers.
    , @anon

    Also, low interest rates for some long causes housing prices to rise. Its happening in the US even with areas with little immigration. What real estate people do with low interest rates is jack up prices more than if the interest rates were higher, Great Britain has had low interest rates for years.
     
    yes
    , @Art Deco
    Another reason that generation M is very politically left in the US like the older baby boomers were a lot of job competition. Gen-x a smaller generation didn’t have the job competition.

    Live births:

    1939-45: 18.4 million or 2.6 million per cohort
    1946-57: 45.6 million or 3.8 million per cohort
    1958-64: 29.2 million or 4.2 million per cohort
    1965-79: 51.2 million or 3.4 million per cohort

    The demographic bulge was just not that large.
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  231. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @Corvinus
    "Are they organizing on a tribal/racial basis to gain political and economic power at our direct expense?"

    Wow, the Alt Right has really done a number on you. Do you truly believe that each race/ethnic group is a rival, that each "tribe" seeks to dominate the other? Americans in general do not subscribe to that theory.

    There are different kinds of tribes – not all are racial or ethnic, some are religious, some are based on subcultures or interests, many especially nowadays are political

    Read More
    • Replies: @Corvinus
    "There are different kinds of tribes – not all are racial or ethnic, some are religious, some are based on subcultures or interests, many especially nowadays are political."

    Tribes is a term used by the Alt Right; your average American does not subscribe to it.
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  232. @cynthia curran
    Also, low interest rates for some long causes housing prices to rise. Its happening in the US even with areas with little immigration. What real estate people do with low interest rates is jack up prices more than if the interest rates were higher, Great Britain has had low interest rates for years. Also, having a lot of kids is no solution either since it makes labor costs low one reason that Central Americans pour into the US since there are less jobs available for a young population. Another reason that generation M is very politically left in the US like the older baby boomers were a lot of job competition. Gen-x a smaller generation didn't have the job competition. A better idea is not tell every white person to moved to Texas because its cheaper than California but to moved to rural Idaho since their is still a lot of open spaces and its sparely populated. Rural areas more than urban and suburban areas are better for more kids.

    Another reason that generation M is very politically left in the US like the older baby boomers were a lot of job competition. Gen-x a smaller generation didn’t have the job competition.

    I think that’s backward. The Boomers faced less competition because of the small size of the previous cohort. They were almost filling a void. By the time the X-ers came around, the employment market had been saturated by the Boomers.

    Read More
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  233. Corvinus says:
    @Anonymous
    There are different kinds of tribes - not all are racial or ethnic, some are religious, some are based on subcultures or interests, many especially nowadays are political

    “There are different kinds of tribes – not all are racial or ethnic, some are religious, some are based on subcultures or interests, many especially nowadays are political.”

    Tribes is a term used by the Alt Right; your average American does not subscribe to it.

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  234. @Art Deco
    So, the economic cycle is a reason to import millions of illiterate, hostile, welfare-grubbing third-worlders?

    No, and irrelevant to my point. You offered an elegy to Britain as it was ca. 1985. Not sure what the man in the street in Britain was thinking in 1985, but the public discourse at that time would never have suggested that the times merited an elegy, nor the twenty years previous. The term 'British disease' was current in newspaper accounts ca. 1976 (around the time the British gov't was hustling for a loan from the IMF).

    I was there.
    Were you?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Art Deco
    You were there and didn't notice the 1970s inflation, 1976 balance of payments crisis, the Winter of Discontent, the 1981 riots, the 1984 miner's strike, year after year after year of double-digit unemployment, not to mention the continually rising crime.

    Britain was the most affluent country in the world bar none in 1900. It was securely surpassed only by Switzerland prior to 1st World War. It was definitively surpassed by the United States only during the 2d World War. By the time Mrs. Thatcher took office, it ranked 13th out of 22 OECD territories, and was securely ahead only of Ireland, Greece, southern Italy, Spain, and Portugal - i.e. the PIIGS.

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  235. anon says: • Disclaimer
    @cynthia curran
    Also, low interest rates for some long causes housing prices to rise. Its happening in the US even with areas with little immigration. What real estate people do with low interest rates is jack up prices more than if the interest rates were higher, Great Britain has had low interest rates for years. Also, having a lot of kids is no solution either since it makes labor costs low one reason that Central Americans pour into the US since there are less jobs available for a young population. Another reason that generation M is very politically left in the US like the older baby boomers were a lot of job competition. Gen-x a smaller generation didn't have the job competition. A better idea is not tell every white person to moved to Texas because its cheaper than California but to moved to rural Idaho since their is still a lot of open spaces and its sparely populated. Rural areas more than urban and suburban areas are better for more kids.

    Also, low interest rates for some long causes housing prices to rise. Its happening in the US even with areas with little immigration. What real estate people do with low interest rates is jack up prices more than if the interest rates were higher, Great Britain has had low interest rates for years.

    yes

    Read More
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  236. Art Deco says:
    @Sarah Toga
    I was there.
    Were you?

    You were there and didn’t notice the 1970s inflation, 1976 balance of payments crisis, the Winter of Discontent, the 1981 riots, the 1984 miner’s strike, year after year after year of double-digit unemployment, not to mention the continually rising crime.

    Britain was the most affluent country in the world bar none in 1900. It was securely surpassed only by Switzerland prior to 1st World War. It was definitively surpassed by the United States only during the 2d World War. By the time Mrs. Thatcher took office, it ranked 13th out of 22 OECD territories, and was securely ahead only of Ireland, Greece, southern Italy, Spain, and Portugal – i.e. the PIIGS.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Johann Ricke

    Britain was the most affluent country in the world bar none in 1900. It was securely surpassed only by Switzerland prior to 1st World War. It was definitively surpassed by the United States only during the 2d World War.
     
    I have heard that the US had the highest per capita GDP among the great powers around the turn of the 20th century. This Wikipedia entry appears to say this was the case by 1913. This was presumably why, on average, American doughboys fighting during the Great War were taller and bigger than their British and French counterparts.
    , @Sarah Toga
    Still waiting for you to answer my question.
    , @Sarah Toga
    By your not yet answering my question I can only believe that you were not there.

    Any place can be made to look bad by manipulating selective statistics. Better data gathering is to go rub elbows with the actual people in real time.

    Like I did.

    Your point seems to be that because an advanced, complex, industrialized society had some conditions less than perfection that everything was awful. Nothing but awful. Everywhere.

    Reminds me of Will Rogers' quip about 1930's Americans being the first generation to go to the poorhouse - driving their own cars.

    But 1930's Americans were still having enough children to tremendously grow the population during the immigration pause. As were the Brits multiplying until the imposition of much sad social engineering of recent times. Foremost of which is the Labour Party's scheme to elect a new people via mass immigration. (The other parties are almost as bad) Very discouraging to the indigenous U.K. peoples.
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  237. @Art Deco
    You were there and didn't notice the 1970s inflation, 1976 balance of payments crisis, the Winter of Discontent, the 1981 riots, the 1984 miner's strike, year after year after year of double-digit unemployment, not to mention the continually rising crime.

    Britain was the most affluent country in the world bar none in 1900. It was securely surpassed only by Switzerland prior to 1st World War. It was definitively surpassed by the United States only during the 2d World War. By the time Mrs. Thatcher took office, it ranked 13th out of 22 OECD territories, and was securely ahead only of Ireland, Greece, southern Italy, Spain, and Portugal - i.e. the PIIGS.

    Britain was the most affluent country in the world bar none in 1900. It was securely surpassed only by Switzerland prior to 1st World War. It was definitively surpassed by the United States only during the 2d World War.

    I have heard that the US had the highest per capita GDP among the great powers around the turn of the 20th century. This Wikipedia entry appears to say this was the case by 1913. This was presumably why, on average, American doughboys fighting during the Great War were taller and bigger than their British and French counterparts.

    Read More
    • Replies: @colm
    The doughboys helped to destroy the old order and let the rise of NAM possible.

    Great job.
    , @Art Deco
    Per Angus Maddison not true. Britain retained the lead until 1910. Between 1910 and 1940, Britain and the U.S. were at parity, trading the lead back and forth between them. It was the destruction of physical capital during the 2d World War that gave the U.S. and advantage it has never quite lost.
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  238. @Art Deco
    You were there and didn't notice the 1970s inflation, 1976 balance of payments crisis, the Winter of Discontent, the 1981 riots, the 1984 miner's strike, year after year after year of double-digit unemployment, not to mention the continually rising crime.

    Britain was the most affluent country in the world bar none in 1900. It was securely surpassed only by Switzerland prior to 1st World War. It was definitively surpassed by the United States only during the 2d World War. By the time Mrs. Thatcher took office, it ranked 13th out of 22 OECD territories, and was securely ahead only of Ireland, Greece, southern Italy, Spain, and Portugal - i.e. the PIIGS.

    Still waiting for you to answer my question.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Art Deco
    What question?

    You're knocking about in Britain ca. 1985 and didn't notice the 13% unemployment.
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  239. colm says:

    Poetic justice for the stupid Redcoats killing Europeans for centuries and replaced by the people they helped by depopulating Europe.

    When Westminster Abbey turns into a mosque or a Hindu temple, that will be the day all the dead of Europe, killed because the City needed to maintain its supremacy, will be atoned.

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  240. colm says:
    @Johann Ricke

    Britain was the most affluent country in the world bar none in 1900. It was securely surpassed only by Switzerland prior to 1st World War. It was definitively surpassed by the United States only during the 2d World War.
     
    I have heard that the US had the highest per capita GDP among the great powers around the turn of the 20th century. This Wikipedia entry appears to say this was the case by 1913. This was presumably why, on average, American doughboys fighting during the Great War were taller and bigger than their British and French counterparts.

    The doughboys helped to destroy the old order and let the rise of NAM possible.

    Great job.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Art Deco
    You fancy Britain is going to be taken over by Mexicans?
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  241. Art Deco says:
    @Johann Ricke

    Britain was the most affluent country in the world bar none in 1900. It was securely surpassed only by Switzerland prior to 1st World War. It was definitively surpassed by the United States only during the 2d World War.
     
    I have heard that the US had the highest per capita GDP among the great powers around the turn of the 20th century. This Wikipedia entry appears to say this was the case by 1913. This was presumably why, on average, American doughboys fighting during the Great War were taller and bigger than their British and French counterparts.

    Per Angus Maddison not true. Britain retained the lead until 1910. Between 1910 and 1940, Britain and the U.S. were at parity, trading the lead back and forth between them. It was the destruction of physical capital during the 2d World War that gave the U.S. and advantage it has never quite lost.

    Read More
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  242. Art Deco says:
    @colm
    The doughboys helped to destroy the old order and let the rise of NAM possible.

    Great job.

    You fancy Britain is going to be taken over by Mexicans?

    Read More
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  243. Art Deco says:
    @Sarah Toga
    Still waiting for you to answer my question.

    What question?

    You’re knocking about in Britain ca. 1985 and didn’t notice the 13% unemployment.

    Read More
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  244. Art Deco says:
    @cynthia curran
    Also, low interest rates for some long causes housing prices to rise. Its happening in the US even with areas with little immigration. What real estate people do with low interest rates is jack up prices more than if the interest rates were higher, Great Britain has had low interest rates for years. Also, having a lot of kids is no solution either since it makes labor costs low one reason that Central Americans pour into the US since there are less jobs available for a young population. Another reason that generation M is very politically left in the US like the older baby boomers were a lot of job competition. Gen-x a smaller generation didn't have the job competition. A better idea is not tell every white person to moved to Texas because its cheaper than California but to moved to rural Idaho since their is still a lot of open spaces and its sparely populated. Rural areas more than urban and suburban areas are better for more kids.

    Another reason that generation M is very politically left in the US like the older baby boomers were a lot of job competition. Gen-x a smaller generation didn’t have the job competition.

    Live births:

    1939-45: 18.4 million or 2.6 million per cohort
    1946-57: 45.6 million or 3.8 million per cohort
    1958-64: 29.2 million or 4.2 million per cohort
    1965-79: 51.2 million or 3.4 million per cohort

    The demographic bulge was just not that large.

    Read More
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  245. @Art Deco
    You were there and didn't notice the 1970s inflation, 1976 balance of payments crisis, the Winter of Discontent, the 1981 riots, the 1984 miner's strike, year after year after year of double-digit unemployment, not to mention the continually rising crime.

    Britain was the most affluent country in the world bar none in 1900. It was securely surpassed only by Switzerland prior to 1st World War. It was definitively surpassed by the United States only during the 2d World War. By the time Mrs. Thatcher took office, it ranked 13th out of 22 OECD territories, and was securely ahead only of Ireland, Greece, southern Italy, Spain, and Portugal - i.e. the PIIGS.

    By your not yet answering my question I can only believe that you were not there.

    Any place can be made to look bad by manipulating selective statistics. Better data gathering is to go rub elbows with the actual people in real time.

    Like I did.

    Your point seems to be that because an advanced, complex, industrialized society had some conditions less than perfection that everything was awful. Nothing but awful. Everywhere.

    Reminds me of Will Rogers’ quip about 1930′s Americans being the first generation to go to the poorhouse – driving their own cars.

    But 1930′s Americans were still having enough children to tremendously grow the population during the immigration pause. As were the Brits multiplying until the imposition of much sad social engineering of recent times. Foremost of which is the Labour Party’s scheme to elect a new people via mass immigration. (The other parties are almost as bad) Very discouraging to the indigenous U.K. peoples.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Art Deco
    Any place can be made to look bad by manipulating selective statistics. Better data gathering is to go rub elbows with the actual people in real time.

    The unemployment rates are not a 'manipulated statistic'. What happened to you or your friends in 1985 is not a synecdoche for the social condition of the UK. This really is not that difficult to understand.
    , @Art Deco
    But 1930′s Americans were still having enough children to tremendously grow the population during the immigration pause.

    Population grew by about 7%. Live births per year were about 10% below the norm of the 1920s. All of this is irrelevant to your original contentions.
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  246. Art Deco says:
    @Sarah Toga
    By your not yet answering my question I can only believe that you were not there.

    Any place can be made to look bad by manipulating selective statistics. Better data gathering is to go rub elbows with the actual people in real time.

    Like I did.

    Your point seems to be that because an advanced, complex, industrialized society had some conditions less than perfection that everything was awful. Nothing but awful. Everywhere.

    Reminds me of Will Rogers' quip about 1930's Americans being the first generation to go to the poorhouse - driving their own cars.

    But 1930's Americans were still having enough children to tremendously grow the population during the immigration pause. As were the Brits multiplying until the imposition of much sad social engineering of recent times. Foremost of which is the Labour Party's scheme to elect a new people via mass immigration. (The other parties are almost as bad) Very discouraging to the indigenous U.K. peoples.

    Any place can be made to look bad by manipulating selective statistics. Better data gathering is to go rub elbows with the actual people in real time.

    The unemployment rates are not a ‘manipulated statistic’. What happened to you or your friends in 1985 is not a synecdoche for the social condition of the UK. This really is not that difficult to understand.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Sarah Toga
    All this econ stats talk misses the point.
    For illustration from another topic, please read on Amren dot com "Libertarians Prove Their Irrelevance In Auburn".
    The underlying civil society is crucial. It allows correcting other problems.
    Bringing in millions of back country Pakistanis (and other people groups just as nasty) has devastated the indigenous people of the U.K.'s component nations.
    If the U.K. were back to its pre-1965 demographics, most of its problems would not even exist now.
    Same for the USA.
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  247. Art Deco says:
    @Sarah Toga
    By your not yet answering my question I can only believe that you were not there.

    Any place can be made to look bad by manipulating selective statistics. Better data gathering is to go rub elbows with the actual people in real time.

    Like I did.

    Your point seems to be that because an advanced, complex, industrialized society had some conditions less than perfection that everything was awful. Nothing but awful. Everywhere.

    Reminds me of Will Rogers' quip about 1930's Americans being the first generation to go to the poorhouse - driving their own cars.

    But 1930's Americans were still having enough children to tremendously grow the population during the immigration pause. As were the Brits multiplying until the imposition of much sad social engineering of recent times. Foremost of which is the Labour Party's scheme to elect a new people via mass immigration. (The other parties are almost as bad) Very discouraging to the indigenous U.K. peoples.

    But 1930′s Americans were still having enough children to tremendously grow the population during the immigration pause.

    Population grew by about 7%. Live births per year were about 10% below the norm of the 1920s. All of this is irrelevant to your original contentions.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Sarah Toga
    I was in the UK, learning first hand what it was like in that previous era.

    You still haven't answered my earlier question. Since you pretend to not know that question, here it is again: were you there?

    Family formation and resulting population is the topic and therefore my eyewitness reports (not contentions) about an era in the UK of a more civil society, a safer culture, are relevant. My eyewitness reports are about the former U.K. society that formerly nurtured the indigenous U.K. peoples that was a key element of said family formation.

    It was a bad trade to dump that for myopic globalist greed.

    I could walk alone anywhere in London (and other UK places) and was perfectly safe, so I did. The UK was not broken. Immigrants were not needed. People had plenty to eat, clothes to wear, places to live, schools educated the young. Trains ran on time. While I do not advocate socialized medicine, they loved their National Health Service. In a green and beautiful land. All that and for holiday just a short boat ride to France or short plane ride to Spain. What's not to like? Again, it was not broken.

    Just have to reflect on how there were no Rotherham immigrant rape gangs destroying the UK social fabric in those days. Not to mention how that police cover up damaged civil society. Probably few of the Rotherham (and similar victims throughout Britain) rape victims will have a family. Hopefully I'm wrong on that and those girls can recover from the trauma inflicted by those violent, filthy immigrants.

    By the way, violent, nasty immigrants inflict much harm on France and Spain. Those nations weren't broken, either.
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  248. @Art Deco
    But 1930′s Americans were still having enough children to tremendously grow the population during the immigration pause.

    Population grew by about 7%. Live births per year were about 10% below the norm of the 1920s. All of this is irrelevant to your original contentions.

    I was in the UK, learning first hand what it was like in that previous era.

    You still haven’t answered my earlier question. Since you pretend to not know that question, here it is again: were you there?

    Family formation and resulting population is the topic and therefore my eyewitness reports (not contentions) about an era in the UK of a more civil society, a safer culture, are relevant. My eyewitness reports are about the former U.K. society that formerly nurtured the indigenous U.K. peoples that was a key element of said family formation.

    It was a bad trade to dump that for myopic globalist greed.

    I could walk alone anywhere in London (and other UK places) and was perfectly safe, so I did. The UK was not broken. Immigrants were not needed. People had plenty to eat, clothes to wear, places to live, schools educated the young. Trains ran on time. While I do not advocate socialized medicine, they loved their National Health Service. In a green and beautiful land. All that and for holiday just a short boat ride to France or short plane ride to Spain. What’s not to like? Again, it was not broken.

    Just have to reflect on how there were no Rotherham immigrant rape gangs destroying the UK social fabric in those days. Not to mention how that police cover up damaged civil society. Probably few of the Rotherham (and similar victims throughout Britain) rape victims will have a family. Hopefully I’m wrong on that and those girls can recover from the trauma inflicted by those violent, filthy immigrants.

    By the way, violent, nasty immigrants inflict much harm on France and Spain. Those nations weren’t broken, either.

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  249. @Art Deco
    Any place can be made to look bad by manipulating selective statistics. Better data gathering is to go rub elbows with the actual people in real time.

    The unemployment rates are not a 'manipulated statistic'. What happened to you or your friends in 1985 is not a synecdoche for the social condition of the UK. This really is not that difficult to understand.

    All this econ stats talk misses the point.
    For illustration from another topic, please read on Amren dot com “Libertarians Prove Their Irrelevance In Auburn”.
    The underlying civil society is crucial. It allows correcting other problems.
    Bringing in millions of back country Pakistanis (and other people groups just as nasty) has devastated the indigenous people of the U.K.’s component nations.
    If the U.K. were back to its pre-1965 demographics, most of its problems would not even exist now.
    Same for the USA.

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