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Has anybody seen an exit poll from the UK general election showing demographic splits like age, income, and ethnicity?

In the comments, Anatoly Karlin points out the Lord Ashcroft Poll, a post-election survey with a sample size of 14k (Tories blue, Labour red, LibDems yellow):

The age gap was immense, with Tories getting 59% of those over 65 and only 18% of those under 25.

The class gap was not terribly large for Torys or Socialists, but it was large for LibDems.

Apparently, there were no questions about ethnicity, religion, income, or marital status.

Update: Commenter Lot points out:

The ethnic/religion breakdown of the Ashcroft poll starts on page 141 and 154.

“Who would be a better PM?”

Here’s the percentage choosing May by group (overall 57.6%)

Jewish 75.5%
Christian 69.7%
Chinese 66.0%
Whites 59.3%
Buddhist 50.0%
Hindu 49.3%
No Religion 43.9%
Indian 37.3%
Mixed Race 33.3%
Sikh 28.6%
Black 19.9%
Muslim 15.9%
Pakistani 11.0%
Bangladeshi 8.7%

The Brexit Gap wasn’t huge:

… just over two thirds (68%) of those who voted Conservative said they had voted Leave in the referendum. Just under two thirds (64%) of those who voted Labour said they had voted to remain in the EU, as did nearly eight in ten Liberal Democrats.

The Lib-Dems are the yuppie party that wins seats in places like West Oxford, where I went on a marketing research business trip in the 1990s. It’s a big place for foreign firms to have their UK offices.

Ashford reports:

The survey found that 82% of those who voted Conservative in 2015 did so again yesterday, with one in ten switching to Labour and one in twenty going to the Lib Dems. Meanwhile, 83% of 2015 Labour voters stayed with their party, with only 9% going to the Conservatives. Half of those who voted Lib Dem last time round did so again this time, as did eight in ten SNP voters. Just over half (57%) of UKIP voters said they had switched to the Tories; fewer than one in five (19%) said they had stayed with their 2015 parties.

The Tories picked up a big chunk of 2015 voters for UKIP, who have pretty much gone out of business since winning the Brexit referendum last year, but not quite a big enough chunk.

Six in ten of those who said they had voted Leave in the EU referendum backed the Conservatives in the general election; a quarter of leavers voted Labour. Only a quarter of Remain voters voted Conservative; just over half (51%) voted Labour, and a quarter of remainers voted Liberal Democrat. …

Only 8% of Labour voters named Brexit as the most important issue in their decision, compared to 48% of those who voted Conservative.

Perhaps because Prime Minister May hadn’t been for Leave in the Brexit referendum last year, while Labour leader Corbyn hadn’t campaigned hard for Remain last year, had been anti-EU at times in the past, and endorsed a compromise “soft Brexit” in this campaign.

Corbyn seems to have finessed and downplayed the Brexit issue in this campaign about as well as possible. This adept performance is kind of surprising to casual observers like myself because he had gotten very bad press both in Britain and America, perhaps because he was seen as anti-Israel. For example, the New York Times’ write-up on the election results included this snide comment by reporters Steven Erlanger and Stephen Castle:

That meant Labour-held seats seemed ripe for the picking, especially since northerners were not enamored of Mr. Corbyn, 68, a far-left urbanite. He seemed weak on defense and security, shaky on economic management and passionate about places like Venezuela and Nicaragua, and had once had strong sympathies for the Irish Republican Army and liked to make jam.

From the Jerusalem Post on May 31, 2017:

LONDON – Only 13% of British Jews intend to vote for Labour in the June 8 election, polling by The Jewish Chronicle and research agency Survation revealed.

In contrast, 77% intend to vote for the Conservatives. The Liberal Democrats polled at 7%, while 2% said they would vote for parties outside the main three.

The near monolithic support for the Conservative Party among British Jewry comes at the tail end of a year-long period that has seen repeated antisemitism controversies in Labour, led by Jeremy Corbyn. …

Of the representative group of 515 British Jews polled last week, when asked to rank the parties on a scale of 1 to 5 if they have an antisemitism problem, those surveyed gave Labour 3.94. In second place was the anti-EU and anti-immigration UK Independence Party with 3.63, with the Liberal Democrats at 2.7 and the Conservatives at 1.96.

… “Even in April 2015, when it appeared Ed Miliband [who is Jewish] was heading for No. 10 and Jeremy Corbyn wasn’t a factor in front-line Labour politics, the party was only receiving 22% of the vote in our Jewish polling, with more than two-thirds of respondents planning to vote Conservative.”

The Tories won two fairly Jewish constituencies in the London suburbs, Finchley & Golders Green (which Mrs. Thatcher had represented) and Hendon, although Labour closed the gap in this election vs. 2015.

Wikipedia reports:

Politically, Jews in the U.K. tend to lean conservative, as a poll published by the Jewish Chronicle in early 2015 shows. Of British Jews polled, 69% would vote for the Conservative Party, while 22% would vote for the Labour Party. There was little Jewish support for UKIP or the Liberal Democrats, with each polling around 2%. This is in stark contrast to the rest of the voter population, which according to a BBC poll had Conservatives and Labour almost tied at about a third each. Jews have typically been a part of the British middle class, traditional home of the Conservative Party, though the number of Jews in working class communities of London is in decline. The main voting bloc of poorer Jews in Britain now, made up primarily of ultra-Orthodox, votes “en masse” for the Conservatives. Attitudes toward Israel influence the vote of three out of four of British Jews.

In the 19th Century, Jewish MPs were pretty equally divided between Tory and Whig, although the most famous ethnically Jewish MP, Prime Minister Benjamin Disraeli (a Christian convert in religion, but still extremely Jewish in name, looks, and self-presentation), was Conservative.

After WWII, Jewish MPs were overwhelmingly Labour: in 1966, there were 38 Jewish Labour MPs compared to 2 Tory Jews. But Mrs. Thatcher, who had strong ties to the Jewish community (e.g., Keith Joseph was her idea man), raised the popularity of the Tories among Jews. By her last general election in 1987, there were 16 Tory Jewish MPS to 7 Labour and 1 Lib-Dem. These days, quite a few MPs are a little bit Jewish, such as David Cameron and Boris Johnson.

I believe Ed Miliband in 2015 was the first Jewish leader of Labour to contest (and lose) a general election. Michael Howard was the unsuccessful Tory leader in the 2005 election. Before that, Disraeli led the Tories from 1868 to 1881, serving twice as Prime Minister. He was, famously, Queen Victoria’s favorite PM.

The differing trajectories of Jewish voters in Britain and the U.S. is curious. Ronald Reagan was roughly as pro-Semitic as Margaret Thatcher, but this did not lead to the kind of historic realignment in America as Thatcher was able to bring about in Britain.

One factor might be that the Jewish community in Britain is relatively smaller than in America. Plus gentile Brits are quite good at journalism jobs. A friend of mine who is a retired Canberra MP and big time lawyer in Melbourne is driven nuts by American theories that Rupert Murdoch must be Jewish because, after all, he is a press baron and gentiles are incapable of managing large media organizations and Rupert’s mother’s maiden name was Greene and that must be Jewish.

No, my Melbourne friend protests, people of indigenous British descent, such as Lord Beaverbrook (Lord Copper in Waugh’s Scoop), have an outstanding record as press lords. And the Greene family was Irish, English, and Scottish. “I know the family, I went to Rupert’s mother’s funeral when she died at 103,” he points out.

 
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  1. flayotters says: • Website
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  2. Not an exit poll, just a (very big) ordinary poll.

    https://twitter.com/LordAshcroft/status/873058461696774145/

    The generational differences are insane.

    (I recall seeing another graph showing data for age groups relative to previous elections. I can’t find it now, but it showed that the difference was unprecedentedly high during this election).

    Read More
    • Replies: @The Last Real Calvinist

    The generational differences are insane.

     

    They are. It seems the 'back to free university' pitch from Labour worked, and bigly.
    , @Anonymous
    https://twitter.com/aClassicLiberal/status/873684730612514817
    , @anon

    The generational differences are insane.
     
    stark difference with France where among the white youth it's close to 50/50 for FN

    it's all those 1930s cultural marxists chased out of Europe into the Anglosphere education system imo

    took maybe 20 or so years to fully take over teacher education - say 1960 - then 40-ish years to replace all the previous teachers - say 2000 - so from then the public schools became an SJW Red Guard production line
    , @rw95
    So much for that whole "the youth support nationalism" thing.
    , @Olorin
    Isn't age a proxy for race in Britain these days?
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  3. Andrei Martyanov [AKA "SmoothieX12"] says: • Website

    I only read that British Parliament now has 45 openly LGBT MPs–a record. But still, a long way for appropriate representation, only 7% (45 in all). A huge room for “improvement”.

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    • LOL: CK
    • Replies: @gda
    Being over-represented by a factor of 2+ represents "a huge room for improvement"?
    , @anon
    1) it should be around 2% not 7%

    and

    2) there are far more when you add all the closeted ones - especially on the conservative side

    this vast over-representation is a function of how politicians are filtered on PC by the money men - the homosexual ones share an interest in supporting PC whether publicly or privately

    the overwhelming disproportion of homosexual politicians supporting PC for their own interests is partly why they say nothing about the media's attempt to normalize pedophilia through their promotion of pre-pubescent transgender

    , @LondonBob
    Gays are 1.6% of the population apparently but they do correlate highly with eccentricity, intelligence and narcissism. Of course also with engagement in politics and the media as well as dislike of sports (very Jewish).

    It is currently a big thing for the media political class that the Conservatives are going to do a deal with the outspokenly anti gay DUP.
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  4. I think we already know the voting demographics without having to look at the data, hahaha

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    • Replies: @The Anti-Gnostic
    How much do political consultants make for telling their clients that Third World immigration means importing social democrats, anywhere and everywhere.

    Now that the secret's out, Tory/Labour, Republicans/Democrats, et al. all know what to do, right?
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  5. Hugh says:

    I would be interested in knowing how muslims voted. Connected with that, I would like to see what percentage of the 18-24 age group that voted is muslim.

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    • Replies: @anon

    I would be interested in knowing how muslims voted
     
    overwhelmingly labour and with an exceptionally high voting rate because clan chiefs use the postal voting system to ensure 1) everyone in their clan group votes and 2) all the votes go to the same person.

    Connected with that, I would like to see what percentage of the 18-24 age group that voted is muslim.
     
    yes, me too

    there was a huge surge of young voters to Labour and a lot of it was SJW Red Guards from affluent white areas but a lot of it was immigrant youth who are voting on ethnic reasons not SJW ones - hard to separate out without clear data.
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  6. @Anatoly Karlin
    Not an exit poll, just a (very big) ordinary poll.

    https://twitter.com/LordAshcroft/status/873058461696774145/

    The generational differences are insane.

    (I recall seeing another graph showing data for age groups relative to previous elections. I can't find it now, but it showed that the difference was unprecedentedly high during this election).

    The generational differences are insane.

    They are. It seems the ‘back to free university’ pitch from Labour worked, and bigly.

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    • Replies: @Bill P
    It's a renters vs. owners issue, and it's a problem all across the West. Young people have been getting hammered with a combination of declining wages and rising rents/property values, and today the wealth gap between young and old is the highest ever in modern times, and maybe in all of human history.

    A political realignment is absolutely unavoidable. If things don't change - and soon - we're probably headed for a massive wealth redistribution program within the next five to ten years.
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  7. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @Anatoly Karlin
    Not an exit poll, just a (very big) ordinary poll.

    https://twitter.com/LordAshcroft/status/873058461696774145/

    The generational differences are insane.

    (I recall seeing another graph showing data for age groups relative to previous elections. I can't find it now, but it showed that the difference was unprecedentedly high during this election).

    Read More
    • Agree: Anatoly Karlin
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  8. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer

    OT

    London’s lesbian police commissioner just endorsed the pundit hot take that was roundly mocked after the last London attack: https://twitter.com/ABC/status/873636522838421504

    ABC News‏ @ABC

    London Police commissioner says nationalities of eight London Bridge victims tell a proud story of city’s diversity

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    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    I bet you Lesbians have the easiest careers of all: they have higher than female drives and ambitions, coupled with double diversity Pokémon points (as women and LGBT).
    , @Dan Hayes
    Anonymous:

    Peter Hitchens (the good Hitchens) warned his Daily Mail readers some time ago what would be in store if Cressida Dick became London Police Commissioner. He proved prescient!
    , @sb
    re London diversity

    I would have thought that a number of the London murdered were non locals who were just passing through London -albeit some residing there for a couple of years - rather than permanent residents ( ie non UK nationals including Australians ,Canadians and EU citizens )

    Makes you realise ( again ) that many of the white faces one sees in London are visitors just like yourself .

    I think the locals are more likely to be the perps rather than the victims
    , @englishmike
    1. As Police Commissioner the city's "diversity" is none of her business.
    2. In a capital city popular with tourists every day of the year of course there will be a diversity of nationality.
    3. What on earth makes the horrible murders of eight diverse visitors to London "a proud story"? Such an embarrassingly perverse bit of virtue signalling from this stupid woman.
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  9. Whiskey says: • Website

    Lots of gays and pretty boys is a red flag women voters are terminally pozzed

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  10. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer

    He got very bad press both in Britain and America, perhaps because he was seen as anti-Israel.

    http://www.jpost.com/Diaspora/Poll-Only-13-percent-of-British-Jews-intend-to-vote-Labor-494366

    “Labour and Conservative support has changed in our Jewish polling over the last two years” he said. “But I wouldn’t describe any of the changes as surprising. Even in April 2015, when it appeared Ed Miliband [who's Jewish] was heading for No. 10 and Jeremy Corbyn wasn’t a factor in front-line Labour politics, the party was only receiving 22% of the vote in our Jewish polling, with more than two-thirds of respondents planning to vote Conservative.”

    … Asked why only 20 years ago Labour had once electorally excelled in seats with high Jewish populations, whereas it now finds itself lagging behind, Alderman noted that “Tony Blair was regarded as a friend of the Jewish people and a friend of Israel. That pedigree is not enjoyed by the present leadership of the Labour Party.”

    Is it hard-left Marxist types siding with the Palestinian underdog or dog-whistles to Muslim constituents (or both)?

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    • Replies: @Daniil Adamov
    I don't think Corbyn is a Marxist as such, but he is hard left. I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt that it's the former. Then again, he seems astute enough to realise the latter would be in play too and I doubt he minds it that much. You take what votes you can get.
    , @Abe

    Is it hard-left Marxist types siding with the Palestinian underdog or dog-whistles to Muslim constituents (or both)?
     
    Pretty much. I alluded to it on another thread by bringing up the current entertainment news-grade spat between PINK FLOYD's Roger Waters and RADIOHEAD's Thom Yorke over RADIOHEAD's refusal to join in a musicians boycott of Israel. How could Yorke be the ultimate SJW when he's taking a more moderate line on BDS than Waters? Because the biggest difference between today's SJW and yesteryear's "street fightin' man" hard-leftist is the SJW's glaring hypocrisy. The SJW wants "progress", sure, but not in a way that could possibly threaten his creature comforts. Tours are huge cash cows for the biggest rock acts, and I'm sure Mr. Yorke does not want to imperil his big payday playing a one-off concert for Facebook or The Google over a silly little thing like Palestinian rights.
    , @anon
    Getting publicity that they don't have the Jewish vote has got to help Labour with Muslim turnout.
    , @anon

    Is it hard-left Marxist types siding with the Palestinian underdog or dog-whistles to Muslim constituents (or both)?
     
    both:
    - small group of Trots who have always been pro-Palestinian
    - large Muslim voting bloc Labour are now dependent on to survive
    - large bloc of SJW youth whose anti-white indoctrination vis a vis colonialism in the public schools gets applied to Israel

    the key factor was Labour becoming dependent on the Muslim voting bloc as that ties the hands of the opposing forces
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  11. jJay says:

    Audacious Epigone uses mostly GSS data for his full demographic analysis of US voting.

    And AE has to reach back to before the Eric Holder administration to get the full demographic data and try to puzzle it forward.

    Rabbit holes.

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  12. reiner Tor says: • Website
    @Anonymous
    OT

    London's lesbian police commissioner just endorsed the pundit hot take that was roundly mocked after the last London attack: https://twitter.com/ABC/status/873636522838421504


    ABC News‏ @ABC

    London Police commissioner says nationalities of eight London Bridge victims tell a proud story of city's diversity
     

    I bet you Lesbians have the easiest careers of all: they have higher than female drives and ambitions, coupled with double diversity Pokémon points (as women and LGBT).

    Read More
    • Agree: Dan Hayes
    • Replies: @Anonym
    And no kids to being up for the most part. Just dogs to walk.
    , @jimmyriddle
    But M-F transexuals are beginning to pose a challenge. They have even more oppression points + male competitiveness.

    The UK National Union of Students Womens' Officer is a hairy bloke in a dress.
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  13. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer

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    • Replies: @anon
    yes - the conservatives made a massive tactical mistake early on which triggered a lot of people who own their own home - which is their core demographic

    hence they did better in poorer (white) areas than more affluent ones

    (that's actually the biggest reason they did so badly but it's irrelevant to the future as it was a one off and the real tectonic shifts made apparent by the election are permanent i.e. immigration has made it possible for a far left Labour party to get elected)

    it's like if California was a separate country and not constrained by being part of the US the Dems would have gone full Marxist by now and Cali would be turning into Venezuela - the UK is heading in that direction as a result of changing the electorate with immigration
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  14. Lot says:

    perhaps because he was seen as anti-Israel

    It isn’t a matter of how he is seen, it is the reality. He’s a conventional anti-white Muslim Supremacist. He strongly favors Hamas and Hezbollah over Israel.

    English Jews really hate Corbyn. One poll showed they were planning on voting for Conservatives over Labour by a a 77 to 13 margin.

    http://www.timesofisrael.com/britains-jews-want-to-see-may-in-june-but-will-corbyn-rain-on-her-parade/

    The Tories’ junior coalition partner, the Protestant Northern Irish Democratic Unionist Party, is even more philosemitic than the Conservatives.

    http://www.jpost.com/International/Ian-Paisley-launches-Northern-Ireland-Friends-of-Israel

    Conversely, the IRA, which has long been supported by Corbyn, is strongly pro-Arab.

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    • Replies: @Anonymous
    You have a tendency to frame anti-Israel views as anti-white and Muslim supremacist in order to promote Jewish interests in a right wing milieu, to portray Jews as allies of the right wing, and to try to get right wingers to be reflexively pro Israel.
    , @Anonymous Nephew
    I've been saying for ages that the immense (and intense) anti-Corbyn campaign inside the Labour Party is driven not by his domestic policies but his antipathy to Invade-The-World and his feeling that the Palestinians have had a pretty rough deal which is continuing as West Bank settlement expands.

    May, by contrast, actually ticked Obama off for ticking off Israel (once he was safely on his way out of office).

    This intemperate piece which I've quoted before (I think it most unlikely that people are now packing their bags in Stamford Hill and Finchley) was written by a Conservative peer, who has an obvious party interest in Corbyn losing, but it reflects some of the internal Labour Party feeling. Corbyn can have the IRA to tea, but sharing a platform with Hamas?

    https://www.thejc.com/comment/columnists/corbyn-must-lose-for-our-sake-1.437827

    “Forgive me for this is a point I feel I must make as a Jew. If Jeremy Corbyn and his followers do not suffer a gigantic defeat in this election, it will be an utter, complete, ghastly disaster for Jews. It will mean that despite all that has happened in the past two years, all his supporters have said about Jews, people — even Jews, for goodness sake — can still support him … Jeremy Corbyn mustn’t just lose. He must be crushed electorally. It must be impossible for his supporters to say that it wasn’t too bad and they should have another go.”
     
    , @Randal

    It isn’t a matter of how he is seen, it is the reality. He’s a conventional anti-white Muslim Supremacist.
     
    LOL! He's an old school commie type, with their standard internationalist and anti-patriotic opinions, not in the slightest a "muslim supremacist".

    Do you really believe what you write? I mean, "muslim supremacist" is clearly absurdly exaggerating the position to the point of dishonesty, but are you aware of that and engaging in knowing hyperbole, or do you actually believe that such hysterical nonsense is objective truth?

    Being blinded by partisan/patriotic group loyalty is understandable, I suppose, up to a point, but there should be a line drawn somewhere.

    He strongly favors Hamas and Hezbollah over Israel.
     
    Which is a perfectly legitimate position for anyone to take. There's no loyalty due to Israel by any member of any European nation, and (to say the least) it's arguable that the Lebanese Shiites and Palestinian muslims have been the victims of Israeli behaviour over the course of the past 70 years or so and are entitled to fight back.

    The case can be argued the other way, as well, and the pro-Israel position is also a legitimate one, of course, but that's characteristic of how disinterested observers tend to view distant murderous squabbles between foreigners.
    , @AnotherDad
    Depressing that any mind share in Western elections is wasted on Israel and all this other tribal quibbling.

    The great socio-political achievement in the West was precisely suppressing tribalism and creating nations. This is what enabled modernity. The East-Asians also did this effectively--though the Chinese lag at the "trust at scale" benefit. (The third great civilization--India--took a different--pretty hideous--approach.) Moderns often aren't aware how critical this transition was, but if you look at the societies unable to do it and still mired in tribalism--the Arab world, Africa--and their incompetence at launching modern states and making decent societies, you get a clue.

    That we're continual enmeshed in the drama of the one tribe that refused to be part of the new nations but clung to its tribalism is a shame.

    Then on top we've allow this anti-national, minoritarian cancer to grow and grow. And we're regressing from nationalism/modernity back to tribalism/primitivism and losing our great nations in the deal. Shameful and pathetic.
    , @John Derbyshire
    Northern Ireland prods are traditionally philosemitic. See e.g. N.I. prod novelist Sam Keery's 1995 novel Lilliburlero, esp. Chapter Six.
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  15. Look at the bright side. Corbyn was offering free everything and he still lost.

    Would a Sanders offering free everything lose in the US?

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    • Replies: @jJay
    HRC went very easy on Sanders in the Democratic primary. The DNC and Debbie Schultz were correct in sidelining him, but the means by which they did they did this has come back to haunt them. Sanders (by some polls) is now America's most popular national politician.

    Sanders has no identifiable, personal-effort, source of employment during his life other than being a government employee and writing 1970's kitsch porn from his log cabin in Vermont about the nubile teenage daughter next door.

    Adult bookstores actually stocked smutty books in the early 1970's along with a peep show. I know what I'm talking about, for better or worse.
    , @Lot

    Would a Sanders offering free everything lose in the US?
     
    Sanders likely would have won. That's not saying much, Hillary was a uniquely awful candidate and still won the popular vote by 2.9 million, and only lost because she fell short in WI and PA by 0.7% and MI by 0.2%. Biden or Warren would have won too.
    , @anon
    yes but it was close and every year the political class bring in more voters - the far Left in UK now know they have changed the electorate so much it is only a matter of time before they win permanently - like California
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  16. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer

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  17. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer

    And now for some amusement from Mother Jones:

    Read More
    • LOL: German_reader
    • Replies: @Desiderius
    Unsurprisingly a woman.

    That's what you get for spending your time reading Cosmo rather than Bagehot (or Churchill, or Berlin, or Addison, et. al.).

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  18. (as I mentioned on another Unz blog)

    Corbyn is great for Israel.

    1/ He prevents a real credible anti-Israel Labour leader from becoming PM-oh I don’t know, let’s call this person ‘Sadiq Khan’

    2/ He scares British Jews, some of whom will move to Israel, the rest who will become even more pro-Israel.

    3/ As mentioned here before, he ‘s given more power to the most pro-Israel small party, the DUP.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Lot

    He prevents a real credible anti-Israel Labour leader from becoming PM-oh I don’t know, let’s call this person ‘Sadiq Khan’
     
    There is no way the 93% white British electorate is going to vote in a Pakistani Muslim as PM. Totally aside from the issues, it would would be a symbolic humiliation of the WWC, who are still the core of Labour support.
    , @anon
    translation:

    the people who want to see Europe destroyed by immigration believe it will be like Moorish Spain all over again

    they think Israel will end up sitting happily in the middle of a sea of Islam from Ireland to India

    not
    going
    to
    happen

    they just hate white people too much to see it
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  19. Dan Hayes says:
    @Anonymous
    OT

    London's lesbian police commissioner just endorsed the pundit hot take that was roundly mocked after the last London attack: https://twitter.com/ABC/status/873636522838421504


    ABC News‏ @ABC

    London Police commissioner says nationalities of eight London Bridge victims tell a proud story of city's diversity
     

    Anonymous:

    Peter Hitchens (the good Hitchens) warned his Daily Mail readers some time ago what would be in store if Cressida Dick became London Police Commissioner. He proved prescient!

    Read More
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  20. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @Lot

    perhaps because he was seen as anti-Israel
     
    It isn't a matter of how he is seen, it is the reality. He's a conventional anti-white Muslim Supremacist. He strongly favors Hamas and Hezbollah over Israel.

    English Jews really hate Corbyn. One poll showed they were planning on voting for Conservatives over Labour by a a 77 to 13 margin.

    http://www.timesofisrael.com/britains-jews-want-to-see-may-in-june-but-will-corbyn-rain-on-her-parade/

    The Tories' junior coalition partner, the Protestant Northern Irish Democratic Unionist Party, is even more philosemitic than the Conservatives.

    http://www.jpost.com/International/Ian-Paisley-launches-Northern-Ireland-Friends-of-Israel

    Conversely, the IRA, which has long been supported by Corbyn, is strongly pro-Arab.

    You have a tendency to frame anti-Israel views as anti-white and Muslim supremacist in order to promote Jewish interests in a right wing milieu, to portray Jews as allies of the right wing, and to try to get right wingers to be reflexively pro Israel.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Lot

    You have a tendency to frame anti-Israel views as anti-white and Muslim supremacist
     
    They usually are.

    Whites are in demographic decline in every single US state, in every single country in Europe, in every single country in Latin America, in Australia and New Zealand, everywhere in the world but Israel.

    That is why Israel is hated by anti-white leftists so much, as long as we are winning somewhere, there remains hope for the rest of us.

    to portray Jews as allies of the right wing
     
    In Europe Jews are generally part of the right. But that is certainly not in the USA, where Jews provide leftism with a very large share of its private funding and brainpower. If you think I've said otherwise, please show me where. Anti-Semites of course exaggerate the extent, but they could still make a good case on this issue without exaggeration.

    try to get right wingers to be reflexively pro Israel
     
    Israel doesn't need my help with that.
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  21. Lot says:

    The ethnic/religion breakdown of the Ashcroft poll starts on page 141 and 154.

    “Who would be a better PM?”

    Here’s the percentage choosing May by group (overall 57.6%)

    Jewish 75.5%
    Christian 69.7%
    Chinese 66.0%
    Whites 59.3%
    Buddhist 50.0%
    Hindu 49.3%
    No Religion 43.9%
    Indian 37.3%
    Mixed Race 33.3%
    Sikh 28.6%
    Black 19.9%
    Muslim 15.9%
    Pakistani 11.0%
    Bangladeshi 8.7%

    Read More
    • Replies: @gda
    Hardly surprising that the more intelligent groups preferred May.

    And the demographics of the vote reflect the old adage "liberal at 20, conservative at 40".

    Though we might have to make that 50, as political maturity seems to take a little extra time these days.
    , @Anonymous Nephew
    Lot - how did you do the sums to transmogrify those Ashcroft tables into the figures you quote? Nearly 60% white voters for May seems pretty high - Attlee's 1947 landslide was with 47.7% of a nearly 100% white electorate.
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  22. gda says:
    @Andrei Martyanov
    I only read that British Parliament now has 45 openly LGBT MPs--a record. But still, a long way for appropriate representation, only 7% (45 in all). A huge room for "improvement".

    Being over-represented by a factor of 2+ represents “a huge room for improvement”?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    Its a massive underrepresentation of the number of unworthy men in the West. Should be at least 40%, possibly more.
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  23. Whiskey says: • Website

    Pro-Muslim is objectively anti-White. There is no other way around it. You lot have to decide if you hate Jews more than you want White people and their culture to survive. Just look at the Yazidi, Egyptian Copts, and others to see what is is in store for Whites under Muslim rule. Fancy living in Algeria?

    Corbyn is insane, in that Muslims are directly the biggest threat to Europe in both culture and demographics (Africans a close second). However he is very BAD for Whites (and Israel, no place is Whiter than Israel and Israel is hate hate hated by the Third BECAUSE IT IS WHITE). [You don't see HATE HATE HATE for say, Burma for ethnically cleansing its Muslims out of the country, or Thailand. Non-Whites will always stick together to hate hate hate Whitey.

    The Irish Republic is also insane, or rather pozzed, by its women, the beautiful Vogue Williams being the exception. Most of this Pro-Muslim stuff is done by fatties, ugly old barren cat ladies, and the like hoping for some hot Muslim houseboy action. The female equivalent of those disgusting dudes who rush over to Thailand for underage hookers. You can just check out Heartiste's post on that matter, with pic after pic of "Refugees Welcome" ladies who have not had sex in years.

    Like it or not, this election was a referendum on immediate total surrender or slow motion surrender and immediate surrender won. Brexit is dead in the water as are any limits on refugees or Muslim aggression. But hey, aging cat ladies and fatties got their Jihad-y Muslims to "welcome." Reminds of how Scott Peterson got tons of love letters after he was imprisoned for killing his wife.

    [Israel will in the end look after itself -- that's what its nukes are for, unless it too is so pozzed with its women that it simply surrenders which significant portions want. Recall that women don't run the risk that men do under conquerors. A pretty woman can always be Sultana.]

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    White men aren't the solution to saving Western civilization. When they were holding all of the cards they blew it. On twitter and Facebook it seems like every white boy is tripping over himself to attack Trump and promote diversity. If this is to get SJW white females I can assure them--after decades of experience with lots of white women (all 9+'s)-- it's definitely not worth selling out. Do like Derb and go for the oriental bush. And try to save your civilization from a Camp of the Saints on bath salts.
    , @Daniel Chieh
    I think the only consistent thing about women is that they vote for what seems to be caring and they vote for what other women vote for(women constitute a bloc far more than men). I've read that this supposedly results in better hedge fund management, but it seems dubious that this is the best strategy for governance.
    , @Yak-15
    I appreciate that you made it through two whole paragraphs before mentioning something blatantly homoerotic involving swarmy men.
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  24. jJay says:
    @anony-mouse
    Look at the bright side. Corbyn was offering free everything and he still lost.

    Would a Sanders offering free everything lose in the US?

    HRC went very easy on Sanders in the Democratic primary. The DNC and Debbie Schultz were correct in sidelining him, but the means by which they did they did this has come back to haunt them. Sanders (by some polls) is now America’s most popular national politician.

    Sanders has no identifiable, personal-effort, source of employment during his life other than being a government employee and writing 1970′s kitsch porn from his log cabin in Vermont about the nubile teenage daughter next door.

    Adult bookstores actually stocked smutty books in the early 1970′s along with a peep show. I know what I’m talking about, for better or worse.

    Read More
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  25. Lot says:
    @Anonymous
    You have a tendency to frame anti-Israel views as anti-white and Muslim supremacist in order to promote Jewish interests in a right wing milieu, to portray Jews as allies of the right wing, and to try to get right wingers to be reflexively pro Israel.

    You have a tendency to frame anti-Israel views as anti-white and Muslim supremacist

    They usually are.

    Whites are in demographic decline in every single US state, in every single country in Europe, in every single country in Latin America, in Australia and New Zealand, everywhere in the world but Israel.

    That is why Israel is hated by anti-white leftists so much, as long as we are winning somewhere, there remains hope for the rest of us.

    to portray Jews as allies of the right wing

    In Europe Jews are generally part of the right. But that is certainly not in the USA, where Jews provide leftism with a very large share of its private funding and brainpower. If you think I’ve said otherwise, please show me where. Anti-Semites of course exaggerate the extent, but they could still make a good case on this issue without exaggeration.

    try to get right wingers to be reflexively pro Israel

    Israel doesn’t need my help with that.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    The Ashkenazi are a minority in Israel, and they're not the same as native Europeans. By your logic, the demographic issue could simply be semanticized away by calling MENA a "white" region with people that are the same as native Europeans.

    In Europe and the US, Jews are generally neoliberals and center-right/neocons, which are portrayed as right wing in mainstream discourse, but aren't seriously right wing in any meaningful sense.

    The broad center - neolibs/cente-right/neocons - is reflexively pro Israel. The right wing - generally called the far right in mainstream discourse - isn't.
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  26. gda says:
    @Lot
    The ethnic/religion breakdown of the Ashcroft poll starts on page 141 and 154.

    "Who would be a better PM?"

    Here's the percentage choosing May by group (overall 57.6%)

    Jewish 75.5%
    Christian 69.7%
    Chinese 66.0%
    Whites 59.3%
    Buddhist 50.0%
    Hindu 49.3%
    No Religion 43.9%
    Indian 37.3%
    Mixed Race 33.3%
    Sikh 28.6%
    Black 19.9%
    Muslim 15.9%
    Pakistani 11.0%
    Bangladeshi 8.7%

    Hardly surprising that the more intelligent groups preferred May.

    And the demographics of the vote reflect the old adage “liberal at 20, conservative at 40″.

    Though we might have to make that 50, as political maturity seems to take a little extra time these days.

    Read More
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  27. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer

    Of course, the Blair-era Economist immigration surge into the UK, (which, incidentally, is the sole reason Britain is at the impasse it is today – UKIP, Brexit and all the rest were merely the backlash), wasn’t just ideological pea-brained neo-liberal intellectual mush – as typified by the wet-pantied Economist magazine guff and gush – it was, in the main, a deliberate, cunning and highly professional strategy to guarantee permanent Labour Party rule in Britain by the means of demographically changing the electorate to suit the politicians.
    Of, course, Corbyn and all his works were never part of the plan ‘new Labour’ were Thatcherites in the only sense that it mattered, ie redistribution and economic policy, but that, alas, is how the chips fell.
    As all the damned, contemptible guff from the Blair period goes – he modelled himself on that pile of shit the Clinton Demographic Party – pompous weasel words uttered by political fools trying to big themselves up, such as ‘triangulation’ really mean jack-shit in the real world of race and class based politics.

    Read More
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  28. Trelane says:

    England was great once. When I was very young in the 1970s, it was the greatest land the world had ever known.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Jenner Ickham Errican
    Thanks for posting that. Gilmour’s one of the greats.

    Elegy for England:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7jMlFXouPk8
    , @Anonym
    The anti-white lyrics of Roger Waters that pathologized the reaction to the poz probably have something to do with the current state of the UK.
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  29. Lot says:
    @anony-mouse
    (as I mentioned on another Unz blog)

    Corbyn is great for Israel.

    1/ He prevents a real credible anti-Israel Labour leader from becoming PM-oh I don't know, let's call this person 'Sadiq Khan'

    2/ He scares British Jews, some of whom will move to Israel, the rest who will become even more pro-Israel.

    3/ As mentioned here before, he 's given more power to the most pro-Israel small party, the DUP.

    He prevents a real credible anti-Israel Labour leader from becoming PM-oh I don’t know, let’s call this person ‘Sadiq Khan’

    There is no way the 93% white British electorate is going to vote in a Pakistani Muslim as PM. Totally aside from the issues, it would would be a symbolic humiliation of the WWC, who are still the core of Labour support.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Bill B.

    There is no way the 93% white British electorate is going to vote in a Pakistani Muslim as PM.

     

    Not now maybe. But soon. The UK needs to implement anti-sharia (against multiple wives; low female education; purdah; free money for every child; etc.) or face oblivion.

    The Labour party will become the party of the minorities and youth in lockstep with the decline of whites. (Guidofawkes the political website has election pamphlets from Labour candidates urging Muslims to vote even if they don't believe in democracy because voting can hasten the changes they want!)

    This is a s**t academic in Huffpo UK saying, amusingly, that the fascists are totally wrong about Islamification but that Muslims are doubling every census:

    So what does the growth in the number of Muslims mean? Inevitably, the Far Right will claim we are witnessing the ‘Islamification of Britain’. More sober minded people will rightfully recognise that this is not occurring whatsoever. Muslims are still a small minority in British society, but a noticeable one. The large number of Muslim residents, most of whom are citizens who hold a British passport, are entitled to vote and pay their taxes, should be respected as a significant part of the nation who may have unique needs, but who also have a unique contribution to make to the nation.

    All the indicating factors suggest that the growth of the Muslim population is certainly not declining, is unlikely to be stabilising and if anything, is going to continue to grow in the future. By the next census Muslims may even double again and make up 10% of the population. These statistics encourage us to think more carefully about the provisions made for British Muslims and the ways in which they are an integral part of the nation.

    Follow Dr. Leon Moosavi on Twitter: www.twitter.com/Leon_Moosavi
     
    , @anon

    There is no way the 93% white British electorate is going to vote in a Pakistani Muslim as PM.
     
    as usual you are ignoring the percentages among the *young* - the percentage of white British among the 18-24 age group in the big cities is tiny and getting lower every year - so it's just a matter of time

    although you're right the post you're responding to was nonsense - Corbyn's ascendancy will enable more radical Muslims to important jobs inside Labour not less

    #

    recent London young mayor candidates

    http://www.eastlondonlines.co.uk/ell_wp/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/imagemayors.jpg
    , @The Anti-Gnostic
    I think you're underestimating the degree of self-loathing with which the modern Westerner regards himself and his civilization.
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  30. SnakeEyes says:

    Kind of funny that the respondents to the Jewish Chronicle poll found every UK political party to be significantly anti-semitic. Paranoid much?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Randal

    Kind of funny that the respondents to the Jewish Chronicle poll found every UK political party to be significantly anti-semitic. Paranoid much?
     
    No different from blacks insisting the world is racist.

    Exact same motives - special pleading, self interest and justification of extreme measures.
    , @anon

    Paranoid much?
     
    their definition of where anti-semitism begins is ridiculous of course (cos paranoia) but mass Muslim immigration has made all the parties tone down overt support for Israel so they're right the tide is turning against them - and mostly by their own hand

    (opening the borders because they thought it would make them safer)

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  31. @Anonymous
    And now for some amusement from Mother Jones:

    https://twitter.com/samknight1/status/873292975194951680

    Unsurprisingly a woman.

    That’s what you get for spending your time reading Cosmo rather than Bagehot (or Churchill, or Berlin, or Addison, et. al.).

    Read More
    • Agree: reiner Tor
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  32. Jason Liu says:

    my face when Jews and Chinese are more right wing than white brits

    what does that tell you?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anonym
    The Baizuo are a white specialty. It's transient delusion. But white people are not the only ones susceptible to strange fashions, like foot binding or raping babies to cure AIDS.
    , @anon
    it tells you the number one priority for a healthy nation is a non-pozzed media and education system
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  33. Lot says:

    Best-named UK Politician: The Right Honorable Lord Adonis

    View post on imgur.com

    Interesting background, a half-Greek orphan who excelled at Oxford:

    Adonis’s father, Nikos, emigrated from Cyprus as a teenager, becoming a waiter in London, where he met Adonis’s English mother. His mother left the family when he was three and has had no communication with him since. Shortly thereafter, Adonis was placed in care and lived in a council children’s home until the age of 11, when he was awarded a local education authority grant to attend Kingham Hill School, a boarding school in Oxfordshire.

    After taking his A-levels, Adonis gained admittance to Keble College, Oxford, where he graduated with a First Class Bachelor of Arts degree in Modern History.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_Adonis,_Baron_Adonis

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    The old joke is that he is 'more Andrew than Adonis'.
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  34. jim jones says:

    I know some Malaysian students and, being Commonwealth citizens, they are entitled to vote in the British General Election. Their Imam told them to vote Labour.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Opinionator
    Malaysia is part of the Commonwealth?
    , @LondonBob
    It is nuts but the Conservatives have done nothing to stop Commonwealth citizens from voting in our elections.

    A big failure for me was the press and Conservative politicians spent large amounts of time attacking Corbyn for being a terrorist sympathiser over his support for the Palestinians. The British public is very pro Palestinian and this had absolutely no effect. Simply incomprehensible to them why this would not work and why Corbyn would be popular to people. Many ways similar to attacks on Trump. My Jewish friends are wild in their hatred for Corbyn so I think that is largely a reflection of their worldview, which unsurprisingly very few British people share.

    Another Trump parallel is a reasonably large number of Remain voters simply refuse to accept the referendum result and seem to spend every waking over frustrating Brexit. Many voted Labour despite Corbyn being a lifelong Eurosceptic who has endorsed Brexit.
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  35. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @Lot

    You have a tendency to frame anti-Israel views as anti-white and Muslim supremacist
     
    They usually are.

    Whites are in demographic decline in every single US state, in every single country in Europe, in every single country in Latin America, in Australia and New Zealand, everywhere in the world but Israel.

    That is why Israel is hated by anti-white leftists so much, as long as we are winning somewhere, there remains hope for the rest of us.

    to portray Jews as allies of the right wing
     
    In Europe Jews are generally part of the right. But that is certainly not in the USA, where Jews provide leftism with a very large share of its private funding and brainpower. If you think I've said otherwise, please show me where. Anti-Semites of course exaggerate the extent, but they could still make a good case on this issue without exaggeration.

    try to get right wingers to be reflexively pro Israel
     
    Israel doesn't need my help with that.

    The Ashkenazi are a minority in Israel, and they’re not the same as native Europeans. By your logic, the demographic issue could simply be semanticized away by calling MENA a “white” region with people that are the same as native Europeans.

    In Europe and the US, Jews are generally neoliberals and center-right/neocons, which are portrayed as right wing in mainstream discourse, but aren’t seriously right wing in any meaningful sense.

    The broad center – neolibs/cente-right/neocons – is reflexively pro Israel. The right wing – generally called the far right in mainstream discourse – isn’t.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Lot

    The Ashkenazi are a minority in Israel, and they’re not the same as native Europeans.
     
    So says you and your silly anti-semite version of the English language. But not most English speakers.


    The broad center – neolibs/cente-right/neocons – is reflexively pro Israel. The right wing – generally called the far right in mainstream discourse – isn’t.
     
    Steve Bannon, Nigel Farage, Jeff Sessions, Steve King, Michelle Bachman, Geert Wilders, Rev. Ian Paisley: "neolibs/cente-right/neocons."

    You: The True Conservative!!!!!!
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  36. Broski says:

    Lot referred to a poll stating:

    Here’s the percentage choosing May by group (overall 57.6%)

    Jewish 75.5%
    Christian 69.7%
    Chinese 66.0%
    Whites 59.3%
    Buddhist 50.0%
    Hindu 49.3%
    No Religion 43.9%
    Indian 37.3%
    Mixed Race 33.3%
    Sikh 28.6%
    Black 19.9%
    Muslim 15.9%
    Pakistani 11.0%
    Bangladeshi 8.7%

    So in the UK, the spectrum was Jews vs. Muslims and blacks clear as day. Fascinating. Compare that to Steve’s finding that America’s spectrum ranges from Mormons to black single mothers.

    Read More
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  37. Lot says:
    @anony-mouse
    Look at the bright side. Corbyn was offering free everything and he still lost.

    Would a Sanders offering free everything lose in the US?

    Would a Sanders offering free everything lose in the US?

    Sanders likely would have won. That’s not saying much, Hillary was a uniquely awful candidate and still won the popular vote by 2.9 million, and only lost because she fell short in WI and PA by 0.7% and MI by 0.2%. Biden or Warren would have won too.

    Read More
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  38. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @Lot
    Best-named UK Politician: The Right Honorable Lord Adonis

    http://imgur.com/a/rbOQP

    Interesting background, a half-Greek orphan who excelled at Oxford:

    Adonis's father, Nikos, emigrated from Cyprus as a teenager, becoming a waiter in London, where he met Adonis's English mother. His mother left the family when he was three and has had no communication with him since. Shortly thereafter, Adonis was placed in care and lived in a council children's home until the age of 11, when he was awarded a local education authority grant to attend Kingham Hill School, a boarding school in Oxfordshire.

    After taking his A-levels, Adonis gained admittance to Keble College, Oxford, where he graduated with a First Class Bachelor of Arts degree in Modern History.
     
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_Adonis,_Baron_Adonis

    The old joke is that he is ‘more Andrew than Adonis’.

    Read More
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  39. @Trelane
    England was great once. When I was very young in the 1970s, it was the greatest land the world had ever known.

    https://youtu.be/ibewmq8YQd8

    Thanks for posting that. Gilmour’s one of the greats.

    Elegy for England:

    Read More
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  40. @Anonymous

    He got very bad press both in Britain and America, perhaps because he was seen as anti-Israel.
     
    http://www.jpost.com/Diaspora/Poll-Only-13-percent-of-British-Jews-intend-to-vote-Labor-494366

    “Labour and Conservative support has changed in our Jewish polling over the last two years” he said. “But I wouldn’t describe any of the changes as surprising. Even in April 2015, when it appeared Ed Miliband [who's Jewish] was heading for No. 10 and Jeremy Corbyn wasn’t a factor in front-line Labour politics, the party was only receiving 22% of the vote in our Jewish polling, with more than two-thirds of respondents planning to vote Conservative.”

    ... Asked why only 20 years ago Labour had once electorally excelled in seats with high Jewish populations, whereas it now finds itself lagging behind, Alderman noted that “Tony Blair was regarded as a friend of the Jewish people and a friend of Israel. That pedigree is not enjoyed by the present leadership of the Labour Party.”
     

    Is it hard-left Marxist types siding with the Palestinian underdog or dog-whistles to Muslim constituents (or both)?

    I don’t think Corbyn is a Marxist as such, but he is hard left. I’m willing to give him the benefit of the doubt that it’s the former. Then again, he seems astute enough to realise the latter would be in play too and I doubt he minds it that much. You take what votes you can get.

    Read More
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  41. @jim jones
    I know some Malaysian students and, being Commonwealth citizens, they are entitled to vote in the British General Election. Their Imam told them to vote Labour.

    Malaysia is part of the Commonwealth?

    Read More
    • Replies: @jim jones
    Member states of the Commonwealth of Nations:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Member_states_of_the_Commonwealth_of_Nations
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  42. Anonym says:
    @reiner Tor
    I bet you Lesbians have the easiest careers of all: they have higher than female drives and ambitions, coupled with double diversity Pokémon points (as women and LGBT).

    And no kids to being up for the most part. Just dogs to walk.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anonym
    That was supposed to be "no kids to bring up". Lesbians generally don't have kids to bring up, which, in addition to their male-like competitive drives, are useful in careers.
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  43. Lot says:
    @Anonymous
    The Ashkenazi are a minority in Israel, and they're not the same as native Europeans. By your logic, the demographic issue could simply be semanticized away by calling MENA a "white" region with people that are the same as native Europeans.

    In Europe and the US, Jews are generally neoliberals and center-right/neocons, which are portrayed as right wing in mainstream discourse, but aren't seriously right wing in any meaningful sense.

    The broad center - neolibs/cente-right/neocons - is reflexively pro Israel. The right wing - generally called the far right in mainstream discourse - isn't.

    The Ashkenazi are a minority in Israel, and they’re not the same as native Europeans.

    So says you and your silly anti-semite version of the English language. But not most English speakers.

    The broad center – neolibs/cente-right/neocons – is reflexively pro Israel. The right wing – generally called the far right in mainstream discourse – isn’t.

    Steve Bannon, Nigel Farage, Jeff Sessions, Steve King, Michelle Bachman, Geert Wilders, Rev. Ian Paisley: “neolibs/cente-right/neocons.”

    You: The True Conservative!!!!!!

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    It's not anti-Semitic to note this. Furthermore, common English usage follows this. English speakers typically say German Jews, Russian Jews, etc. It's odd that you're disputing this and calling it anti-Semitic. Do you believe native Europeans don't have independent nationhood?

    The far right isn't comprised of a total of 7 people. You yourself know full well that the far right is generally not pro-Israel, and you've been critical and complained about this.
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  44. Anonym says:
    @Trelane
    England was great once. When I was very young in the 1970s, it was the greatest land the world had ever known.

    https://youtu.be/ibewmq8YQd8

    The anti-white lyrics of Roger Waters that pathologized the reaction to the poz probably have something to do with the current state of the UK.

    Read More
    • Replies: @anon
    that generation knocked the floor out of social conservatism not understanding the abyss that lies underneath
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  45. Anonym says:
    @Jason Liu
    my face when Jews and Chinese are more right wing than white brits

    what does that tell you?

    The Baizuo are a white specialty. It’s transient delusion. But white people are not the only ones susceptible to strange fashions, like foot binding or raping babies to cure AIDS.

    Read More
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  46. Anonym says:
    @Anonym
    And no kids to being up for the most part. Just dogs to walk.

    That was supposed to be “no kids to bring up”. Lesbians generally don’t have kids to bring up, which, in addition to their male-like competitive drives, are useful in careers.

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  47. Lurker says:

    The left are very pleased with themselves over the age distribution and obviously it’s saying something. But eventually 18 yos become 28 yos and so on. And amazingly their voting patterns change with age. This seems to come as a surprise at every election.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Maj. Kong
    The age chasm was perhaps the largest ever recorded, the surge in youth turnout is due to the bribery and the very real thought that Brexit would be vetoed by a PM Corbyn. This is a generation that has only known the EU, and has credible fears that they won't be able to live/work in the EU countries anymore. Topped off with a heavy dose of cultural Marxism.

    The argument of the remain group in Brexit was that Leave would cause an economic disaster (but the euro won't???). The Leave campaign won because they promised to spend the money the UK pays the EU, on the NHS. But that wasn't something they could deliver on, and the Conservative Party didn't run a manifesto on eliminating foreign aid and boosting the NHS.
    , @Anonymous Nephew
    "But eventually 18 yos become 28 yos and so on. And amazingly their voting patterns change with age. "

    Something like 30%-plus of babies born in England and Wales have at least one foreign-born parent, and kids classified as "minority" are heading for 30% of primary school kids. So I'm not sure if voting patterns will change in a way we'd like.
    , @anon
    the big difference this time is
    - disproportionately immigrant descent
    - they actually voted which they mostly didn't in the past
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  48. Abe says: • Website
    @Anonymous

    He got very bad press both in Britain and America, perhaps because he was seen as anti-Israel.
     
    http://www.jpost.com/Diaspora/Poll-Only-13-percent-of-British-Jews-intend-to-vote-Labor-494366

    “Labour and Conservative support has changed in our Jewish polling over the last two years” he said. “But I wouldn’t describe any of the changes as surprising. Even in April 2015, when it appeared Ed Miliband [who's Jewish] was heading for No. 10 and Jeremy Corbyn wasn’t a factor in front-line Labour politics, the party was only receiving 22% of the vote in our Jewish polling, with more than two-thirds of respondents planning to vote Conservative.”

    ... Asked why only 20 years ago Labour had once electorally excelled in seats with high Jewish populations, whereas it now finds itself lagging behind, Alderman noted that “Tony Blair was regarded as a friend of the Jewish people and a friend of Israel. That pedigree is not enjoyed by the present leadership of the Labour Party.”
     

    Is it hard-left Marxist types siding with the Palestinian underdog or dog-whistles to Muslim constituents (or both)?

    Is it hard-left Marxist types siding with the Palestinian underdog or dog-whistles to Muslim constituents (or both)?

    Pretty much. I alluded to it on another thread by bringing up the current entertainment news-grade spat between PINK FLOYD’s Roger Waters and RADIOHEAD’s Thom Yorke over RADIOHEAD’s refusal to join in a musicians boycott of Israel. How could Yorke be the ultimate SJW when he’s taking a more moderate line on BDS than Waters? Because the biggest difference between today’s SJW and yesteryear’s “street fightin’ man” hard-leftist is the SJW’s glaring hypocrisy. The SJW wants “progress”, sure, but not in a way that could possibly threaten his creature comforts. Tours are huge cash cows for the biggest rock acts, and I’m sure Mr. Yorke does not want to imperil his big payday playing a one-off concert for Facebook or The Google over a silly little thing like Palestinian rights.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Gabriel M
    Thom Yorke doesn't need the money. The Pixies did need the money, so that probably explains why they broke the boycott, but Radiohead don't. The reason they won't join in his because the guitarist is married to an Israeli lass and hence knows enough to know that the SJW narrative is untrue. (Of course, he is not thoughtful enough to ask whether maybe the narrative is also untrue about things he does not know about, but every so often this does happen). As a general rule, the SJW/Svigor narrative is so over the top that simply being minimally acquainted with the facts on the ground inoculates you against it.

    I've often thought whether it wouldn't have been wise on the part of South Africa, Rhodesia, and the old South to have set aside some money to pay for vacations and show people around the place. Might have bought them a few decades.
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  49. anon says: • Disclaimer
    @Anonymous

    He got very bad press both in Britain and America, perhaps because he was seen as anti-Israel.
     
    http://www.jpost.com/Diaspora/Poll-Only-13-percent-of-British-Jews-intend-to-vote-Labor-494366

    “Labour and Conservative support has changed in our Jewish polling over the last two years” he said. “But I wouldn’t describe any of the changes as surprising. Even in April 2015, when it appeared Ed Miliband [who's Jewish] was heading for No. 10 and Jeremy Corbyn wasn’t a factor in front-line Labour politics, the party was only receiving 22% of the vote in our Jewish polling, with more than two-thirds of respondents planning to vote Conservative.”

    ... Asked why only 20 years ago Labour had once electorally excelled in seats with high Jewish populations, whereas it now finds itself lagging behind, Alderman noted that “Tony Blair was regarded as a friend of the Jewish people and a friend of Israel. That pedigree is not enjoyed by the present leadership of the Labour Party.”
     

    Is it hard-left Marxist types siding with the Palestinian underdog or dog-whistles to Muslim constituents (or both)?

    Getting publicity that they don’t have the Jewish vote has got to help Labour with Muslim turnout.

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  50. In this case, I don’t think the demographics are as interesting as the issues. From Lord Ashcroft:

    Asked unprompted which issues had been the most important in their voting decision, Conservatives were most likely to name Brexit (as were Liberal Democrats), followed by having the right leadership. Labour voters, meanwhile, were most likely to name the NHS and spending cuts. Only 8% of Labour voters named Brexit as the most important issue in their decision, compared to 48% of those who voted Conservative.

    Of course, people’s self-professed reasons for voting may not be accurate, but it looks like the only possible way forward is Protection with a capital P. On both sides of the Atlantic. Ryan and Trump are not just enemies, they are electorally incompatible. Citizenists cannot afford to lose any votes by embracing libertarians. Sad to say.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Opinionator
    it looks like the only possible way forward is Protection with a capital P. On both sides of the Atlantic. Ryan and Trump are not just enemies, they are electorally incompatible. Citizenists cannot afford to lose any votes by embracing libertarians.


    I don't follow. Please explain.
    , @AnotherDad

    Ryan and Trump are not just enemies, they are electorally incompatible. Citizenists cannot afford to lose any votes by embracing libertarians. Sad to say.
     
    Agreed Chris.

    I've got no love for an American NHS. I'd rather keep my money in my own pocket and figure out my own medical needs.

    But if it's a question of single payer--being overtaxed to pay medical care for lots of low earning blacks and mexicans--versus importing throngs of more low IQ foreigners into the US, this isn't even an interesting question. Gimme that dang single payer thing right now!

    A big-ass welfare state with a *real border* is way, way, way preferable to the open borders lunacy of so-called "libertarians". And of course the open border will inevitably enable the state party to import enough marginal earner foreigners to win elections and bring in an expansive welfare state anyway. "Libertarianism" can only plausibly work--if it can work at all--in a closed society of mostly competent people of independent mien and a common genetic background.
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  51. Maj. Kong says:
    @Lurker
    The left are very pleased with themselves over the age distribution and obviously it's saying something. But eventually 18 yos become 28 yos and so on. And amazingly their voting patterns change with age. This seems to come as a surprise at every election.

    The age chasm was perhaps the largest ever recorded, the surge in youth turnout is due to the bribery and the very real thought that Brexit would be vetoed by a PM Corbyn. This is a generation that has only known the EU, and has credible fears that they won’t be able to live/work in the EU countries anymore. Topped off with a heavy dose of cultural Marxism.

    The argument of the remain group in Brexit was that Leave would cause an economic disaster (but the euro won’t???). The Leave campaign won because they promised to spend the money the UK pays the EU, on the NHS. But that wasn’t something they could deliver on, and the Conservative Party didn’t run a manifesto on eliminating foreign aid and boosting the NHS.

    Read More
    • Replies: @AM
    "This is a generation that has only known the EU, and has credible fears that they won’t be able to live/work in the EU countries anymore. Topped off with a heavy dose of cultural Marxism."

    It's mostly the later. They're convinced if they're not part of the herd, they'll die. The brainwash is almost total, on the island that is known for their stubborn independent types. I asked on despairing young British Twitter user after Briexit if she had a heritage worth preserving. She seemed to hardly understand the question.
    , @helena
    The Labour Manifesto stated free movement would end.
    Clegg, Salmond, both big Remain voices lost seats.
    LibDems - the party of Remain - didn't do as well as it could have.
    Over 80% voted for a party with a Brexit policy.

    So no, the election result cannot be read as anti-Brexit.


    The British public do not understand English:

    "Leaving the EU will create a pot of money which could be spent on the NHS"

    - that is still true. No one said would and no one said all.


    The left is much better at word games and spinning than the right.
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  52. Gabriel M says:
    @Abe

    Is it hard-left Marxist types siding with the Palestinian underdog or dog-whistles to Muslim constituents (or both)?
     
    Pretty much. I alluded to it on another thread by bringing up the current entertainment news-grade spat between PINK FLOYD's Roger Waters and RADIOHEAD's Thom Yorke over RADIOHEAD's refusal to join in a musicians boycott of Israel. How could Yorke be the ultimate SJW when he's taking a more moderate line on BDS than Waters? Because the biggest difference between today's SJW and yesteryear's "street fightin' man" hard-leftist is the SJW's glaring hypocrisy. The SJW wants "progress", sure, but not in a way that could possibly threaten his creature comforts. Tours are huge cash cows for the biggest rock acts, and I'm sure Mr. Yorke does not want to imperil his big payday playing a one-off concert for Facebook or The Google over a silly little thing like Palestinian rights.

    Thom Yorke doesn’t need the money. The Pixies did need the money, so that probably explains why they broke the boycott, but Radiohead don’t. The reason they won’t join in his because the guitarist is married to an Israeli lass and hence knows enough to know that the SJW narrative is untrue. (Of course, he is not thoughtful enough to ask whether maybe the narrative is also untrue about things he does not know about, but every so often this does happen). As a general rule, the SJW/Svigor narrative is so over the top that simply being minimally acquainted with the facts on the ground inoculates you against it.

    I’ve often thought whether it wouldn’t have been wise on the part of South Africa, Rhodesia, and the old South to have set aside some money to pay for vacations and show people around the place. Might have bought them a few decades.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Seamus Padraig

    I’ve often thought whether it wouldn’t have been wise on the part of South Africa, Rhodesia, and the old South to have set aside some money to pay for vacations and show people around the place. Might have bought them a few decades.
     
    Or maybe they should've just spent more money on lobbying in Washington.
    , @Seamus Padraig

    Thom Yorke doesn’t need the money. The Pixies did need the money, so that probably explains why they broke the boycott, but Radiohead don’t. The reason they won’t join in his because the guitarist is married to an Israeli lass and hence knows enough to know that the SJW narrative is untrue.
     
    Ah! Yenta-fever. That explains a lot.
    , @Abe

    The reason they won’t join in his because the guitarist is married to an Israeli lass
     
    That's some serious deep cover!
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  53. jim jones says:
    @Opinionator
    Malaysia is part of the Commonwealth?
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  54. Jan says:

    Jewish anti-Corbynism has not played out in the UK’s mainstream media. Most of the electorate is totally unaware of the issue and would consider anyone who broached the matter a “Nazi”.

    My constituency MP is a Labour Friend of Israel – parachuted in by the Blairites. Pakistanis increasingly dominate the local party and they are quite happy with an absentee MP as the demographics swing in their favour.

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  55. Gabriel M says:

    Regarding the yoof vote. From age 4-24 Brits are taught communism. The Tories do absolutely nothing about this when they get power, indeed they actually insist that funny faith schools also teach ‘British values’ (communism). What they hope is that when it comes to voting, people will temper their communism with ‘moderation’, ‘common sense’ and a bit of economics. But what if they don’t? The young just voted for Venezeula + Muslims, and in record numbers. The hope is that they will smarten up when they have kids, i.e. never.

    Britain is the ultimate black pill.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Charlie_U

    Britain is the ultimate black pill.
     
    Yeah, but at least you had a homeland you could return to, right?
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  56. @Lot

    perhaps because he was seen as anti-Israel
     
    It isn't a matter of how he is seen, it is the reality. He's a conventional anti-white Muslim Supremacist. He strongly favors Hamas and Hezbollah over Israel.

    English Jews really hate Corbyn. One poll showed they were planning on voting for Conservatives over Labour by a a 77 to 13 margin.

    http://www.timesofisrael.com/britains-jews-want-to-see-may-in-june-but-will-corbyn-rain-on-her-parade/

    The Tories' junior coalition partner, the Protestant Northern Irish Democratic Unionist Party, is even more philosemitic than the Conservatives.

    http://www.jpost.com/International/Ian-Paisley-launches-Northern-Ireland-Friends-of-Israel

    Conversely, the IRA, which has long been supported by Corbyn, is strongly pro-Arab.

    I’ve been saying for ages that the immense (and intense) anti-Corbyn campaign inside the Labour Party is driven not by his domestic policies but his antipathy to Invade-The-World and his feeling that the Palestinians have had a pretty rough deal which is continuing as West Bank settlement expands.

    May, by contrast, actually ticked Obama off for ticking off Israel (once he was safely on his way out of office).

    This intemperate piece which I’ve quoted before (I think it most unlikely that people are now packing their bags in Stamford Hill and Finchley) was written by a Conservative peer, who has an obvious party interest in Corbyn losing, but it reflects some of the internal Labour Party feeling. Corbyn can have the IRA to tea, but sharing a platform with Hamas?

    https://www.thejc.com/comment/columnists/corbyn-must-lose-for-our-sake-1.437827

    “Forgive me for this is a point I feel I must make as a Jew. If Jeremy Corbyn and his followers do not suffer a gigantic defeat in this election, it will be an utter, complete, ghastly disaster for Jews. It will mean that despite all that has happened in the past two years, all his supporters have said about Jews, people — even Jews, for goodness sake — can still support him … Jeremy Corbyn mustn’t just lose. He must be crushed electorally. It must be impossible for his supporters to say that it wasn’t too bad and they should have another go.”

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  57. @Lurker
    The left are very pleased with themselves over the age distribution and obviously it's saying something. But eventually 18 yos become 28 yos and so on. And amazingly their voting patterns change with age. This seems to come as a surprise at every election.

    “But eventually 18 yos become 28 yos and so on. And amazingly their voting patterns change with age. “

    Something like 30%-plus of babies born in England and Wales have at least one foreign-born parent, and kids classified as “minority” are heading for 30% of primary school kids. So I’m not sure if voting patterns will change in a way we’d like.

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  58. Bill B. says:
    @Lot

    He prevents a real credible anti-Israel Labour leader from becoming PM-oh I don’t know, let’s call this person ‘Sadiq Khan’
     
    There is no way the 93% white British electorate is going to vote in a Pakistani Muslim as PM. Totally aside from the issues, it would would be a symbolic humiliation of the WWC, who are still the core of Labour support.

    There is no way the 93% white British electorate is going to vote in a Pakistani Muslim as PM.

    Not now maybe. But soon. The UK needs to implement anti-sharia (against multiple wives; low female education; purdah; free money for every child; etc.) or face oblivion.

    The Labour party will become the party of the minorities and youth in lockstep with the decline of whites. (Guidofawkes the political website has election pamphlets from Labour candidates urging Muslims to vote even if they don’t believe in democracy because voting can hasten the changes they want!)

    This is a s**t academic in Huffpo UK saying, amusingly, that the fascists are totally wrong about Islamification but that Muslims are doubling every census:

    So what does the growth in the number of Muslims mean? Inevitably, the Far Right will claim we are witnessing the ‘Islamification of Britain’. More sober minded people will rightfully recognise that this is not occurring whatsoever. Muslims are still a small minority in British society, but a noticeable one. The large number of Muslim residents, most of whom are citizens who hold a British passport, are entitled to vote and pay their taxes, should be respected as a significant part of the nation who may have unique needs, but who also have a unique contribution to make to the nation.

    All the indicating factors suggest that the growth of the Muslim population is certainly not declining, is unlikely to be stabilising and if anything, is going to continue to grow in the future. By the next census Muslims may even double again and make up 10% of the population. These statistics encourage us to think more carefully about the provisions made for British Muslims and the ways in which they are an integral part of the nation.

    Follow Dr. Leon Moosavi on Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/Leon_Moosavi

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    • Replies: @Hyperborean
    It is not just this single guy. The proliferation of liberal writers who write GoodLies right before contradicting them with BadTruths at newspapers like HuffPo and the Guardian has become quite common. I wonder if they ever experience any cognitive dissonance.
    , @celt darnell
    Remarkable. He declares the "fascists" (i.e. indigenous population under threat of colonisation) is wrong, and yet turns around and proves them right.

    I've never seen it done so quickly. Usually there's at least a few paragraphs or pages of obfuscation between condemnation and admission...

    Nice find.
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  59. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer

    Due to Britain’s wonderful first-past-the-post individual constituency parliamentary voting system what we have now is the Democratic Unionist Party (the DUP) a parochial, sectarian political party which commands a segment of Northern Ireland’s, (population 1.7 million, Protestants around 60% of that ), Loyalist population as its sole voting base, effectively having complete and absolute control of the Westminster Parliament and 65 million British subjects.
    Both Tony Blair and the Tories defended the current voting system to the utmost hilt. Blair – characteristically foolishly – refused to reform it when he had the power to do so.

    Anyhow, most non Ulster Britons know very very little about the DUP and its policies other than that it was the Rev. Ian Paisley’s mob during the ‘troubles’ and the more hardcore of the two Unionist parties. Enoch Powell, as it happened resigned from the Conservative Party in disgust over the putative EU, or EEC as it was in those days, and became an Official Unionist Party MP – they, I believe are more genteel and traditionally Tory in outlook.

    The DUP are really old fashioned fundamentalist Scots-Irish Presbyterianism at assembly.
    One good thing to take away is that they have an even dimmer view of what they term ‘mohammedism’ than they even have of Roman Catholicism, and likely they will try to to limit further Muslim immigration into the United Kingdom they so love.

    After decades of the English spilling so much blood and treasure for the largely thankless task of defending the Loyalists, perhaps just perhaps, they might give back something worthwhile in return.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Of course, who can ever forget the Reverend Dr. Paisley - he was also a Member of the 'European Parliament' as well as being a Westminster MP, ferociously denouncing Pope John Paul II as the Anti-Christ, from the floor of the Strasbourg Parliament whilst the reigning Pontiff was addressing the 'parliament'?

    Strangely enough - a real right royal European stew for you Yanks - a descendant and heir of the last Habsburg Emperor - devout Catholic he - personally tackled the Rev. Dr. Paisley on this outburst.
    , @Simon in London
    "After decades of the English spilling so much blood and treasure for the largely thankless task of defending the Loyalists, perhaps just perhaps, they might give back something worthwhile in return."

    The English have never intervened in Ulster to protect the Loyalists - not even at the Siege of Derry (where I suspect I had more ancestors among the besiegers than the besieged). Military intervention in 1969 was to protect the Catholics/Nationalists from the Protestants/Unionists. There was no credible military threat to the Stormont government, and it took English/Westminster military intervention to energise the IRA and turn them into a credible killing force, because (for one reason) only British military intervention could give them the cover to embark on a large scale terror campaign without fear of retaliatory ethnic cleansing.

    It's remotely conceivable that absent any mainland intervention, Charles Haughey's Republic of Ireland could have militarily mobilised, defeated Stormont and imposed a unified Ireland. But that was a war the Republic certainly did not wish to fight if they could possibly help it - most Irish south of the Nine Counties traditionally see us Northerners as crazy dour violent idiots, best avoided - and that opinion goes for Catholic & Protestant Ulster folk alike.
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  60. eah says:

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    • Replies: @eah
    https://twitter.com/HarmlessYardDog/status/873157731393425408
    , @Baked Georgia
    that's because of the refugee crisis. otherwise you can see how in the beggining they reduced the numbers of foreigners coming.
    also few people are leaving
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  61. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer

    Whatever happens, as sure as night follows day, expect ranting raving rabid editorials in The Economist magazine demanding even more third world immigration into Britain and the further erosion of such derisory controls that still vestigially exist.

    Expect more magic unicorn editorials claiming that third world immigrants shit gold coins, piss liquid silver and fart Chanel no. 5, whilst adding ‘vibrancy’ and ‘diversity’.

    That REAL REAL tragedy is the British people will continue electing damned fools who actually *believe* this sub nematode ganglion garbage.

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  62. eah says:
    @eah
    https://twitter.com/SlFrexit/status/873221929456607233

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  63. 5371 says:

    The question was specifically about religion. A lot of British Jews, perhaps most, will answer that they have none.

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  64. sb says:
    @Anonymous
    OT

    London's lesbian police commissioner just endorsed the pundit hot take that was roundly mocked after the last London attack: https://twitter.com/ABC/status/873636522838421504


    ABC News‏ @ABC

    London Police commissioner says nationalities of eight London Bridge victims tell a proud story of city's diversity
     

    re London diversity

    I would have thought that a number of the London murdered were non locals who were just passing through London -albeit some residing there for a couple of years – rather than permanent residents ( ie non UK nationals including Australians ,Canadians and EU citizens )

    Makes you realise ( again ) that many of the white faces one sees in London are visitors just like yourself .

    I think the locals are more likely to be the perps rather than the victims

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  65. Randal says:
    @Lot

    perhaps because he was seen as anti-Israel
     
    It isn't a matter of how he is seen, it is the reality. He's a conventional anti-white Muslim Supremacist. He strongly favors Hamas and Hezbollah over Israel.

    English Jews really hate Corbyn. One poll showed they were planning on voting for Conservatives over Labour by a a 77 to 13 margin.

    http://www.timesofisrael.com/britains-jews-want-to-see-may-in-june-but-will-corbyn-rain-on-her-parade/

    The Tories' junior coalition partner, the Protestant Northern Irish Democratic Unionist Party, is even more philosemitic than the Conservatives.

    http://www.jpost.com/International/Ian-Paisley-launches-Northern-Ireland-Friends-of-Israel

    Conversely, the IRA, which has long been supported by Corbyn, is strongly pro-Arab.

    It isn’t a matter of how he is seen, it is the reality. He’s a conventional anti-white Muslim Supremacist.

    LOL! He’s an old school commie type, with their standard internationalist and anti-patriotic opinions, not in the slightest a “muslim supremacist”.

    Do you really believe what you write? I mean, “muslim supremacist” is clearly absurdly exaggerating the position to the point of dishonesty, but are you aware of that and engaging in knowing hyperbole, or do you actually believe that such hysterical nonsense is objective truth?

    Being blinded by partisan/patriotic group loyalty is understandable, I suppose, up to a point, but there should be a line drawn somewhere.

    He strongly favors Hamas and Hezbollah over Israel.

    Which is a perfectly legitimate position for anyone to take. There’s no loyalty due to Israel by any member of any European nation, and (to say the least) it’s arguable that the Lebanese Shiites and Palestinian muslims have been the victims of Israeli behaviour over the course of the past 70 years or so and are entitled to fight back.

    The case can be argued the other way, as well, and the pro-Israel position is also a legitimate one, of course, but that’s characteristic of how disinterested observers tend to view distant murderous squabbles between foreigners.

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    • Agree: celt darnell
    • Replies: @Art Deco
    Which is a perfectly legitimate position for anyone to take.

    No it isn't. Hamas and Hezbollah are criminal organizations who attack everything the West stands for. Hezbollah's constituency has no legitimate beef with Israel at all, but that has not in the past dissuaded Hezbollah from engaging in pointless cross-border violence.
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  66. Randal says:
    @SnakeEyes
    Kind of funny that the respondents to the Jewish Chronicle poll found every UK political party to be significantly anti-semitic. Paranoid much?

    Kind of funny that the respondents to the Jewish Chronicle poll found every UK political party to be significantly anti-semitic. Paranoid much?

    No different from blacks insisting the world is racist.

    Exact same motives – special pleading, self interest and justification of extreme measures.

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    • Replies: @Art Deco
    No different from blacks insisting the world is racist.

    No it isn't. See Caroline Glick's account of her most recent trip to the UK (for a debate at Oxford). Anti-semitism is quite normal among fancy people in Britain.
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  67. The age gap seems insane, but I think it may be longstanding. Tories have always been the grown-up party. I remember being 19 years old in 1992 and voting Liberal Democrat, to my eternal shame.
    More worrying is if British children are now being successfully indoctrinated in cultural Marxism, traditionally a phenomenon only seen in places like Germany & Sweden. Ten-twelve years or so ago my University students (of all races) strongly rejected Political Correctness, but they had grown up pre-New Labour, when Men Were Free. Today’s 18 year old University students have had cultural Marxist indoctrination all their lives, at a much more ingrained level than prior generations. The current vituperation against the DUP* from even the right-wing UK press is worrying too.

    *The Tory’s new post-election partners; socially conservative Ulster Protestants who aren’t big on Social Justice causes like Gay Marriage or (one suspects) transgender men in women’s changing rooms.

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    • Replies: @Randal

    The age gap seems insane, but I think it may be longstanding. Tories have always been the grown-up party. I remember being 19 years old in 1992 and voting Liberal Democrat, to my eternal shame.
     
    It's a longstanding trope that young people tend to be leftist, but to grow out of it. As you are probably aware, various versions of: "he who is not a socialist at 19, has no heart, he who is still a socialist at 30, has no brain" have been attributed with various degrees of speculation to Bismarck, Clemenceau, Churchill, Lloyd George and others.

    Certainly during my own lifetime, apart perhaps from a brief period of Thatcherite enthusiasm in the late 1970s and early 1980s, and some limited disillusion perhaps towards the end of the Blair/Brown era, the young have almost always strongly leaned anti-Conservative.

    That's exacerbated when, as now, the "Conservative" Party is in office by the related tendency of the young to rebel against authority in the specific form of the party in office.

    More worrying is if British children are now being successfully indoctrinated in cultural Marxism, traditionally a phenomenon only seen in places like Germany & Sweden.
     
    Yes, indeed.

    I think a big part of the problem is precisely the collaboration with this indoctrination by the establishment political right that you refer to in relation to the DUP coverage, A decade or two ago there were still meaningful elite media outlets that could be regarded as conservative. Those (Times, Spectator, Telegraph etc) have mostly been taken over by the neoconservative political right and aligned with the social radicalism and identity lobbying of the left.

    Not that I'm saying many young people read those particular publications, but rather that their realignment reflects the wider position of the establishment "right".

    There is little or no presentation of any legitimate and authoritative genuine conservatism to modern young people to provide an alternative or to help them with the necessary process of growing out of their childish leftism.
    , @Anonymous
    Apparently, something like over 60% of the Northern Ireland economy is attributable to government spending - no doubt most of that money is a direct transfer from England.
    This is higher proportion of the economy than the pure 1990 central European communist states ever achieved.

    How does this sit with the Conservative Party aim of 'shrinking the state' to its barest minimum?
    , @Anonymous Nephew
    "The age gap seems insane"

    But not as insane as the Jewish/Muslim gap, even less the Jewish/Pakistani-Bangladeshi gap, which is nearly as pronounced as Steve's famous Mormon/black gap in the 2012 Presidential.

    (As some have noted, the Muslim population is very young, so that will tend to accentuate the youth gap.)

    On terror, for years 'British' jihadi terrorists have been of Pakistani or African (incl Afro-Caribbean) descent, and very few (if any) have come from East London's Bangladeshis. When the latest bridge attack happened, the perps turned out to be the product of Mrs May's lax border controls, not local Banglas.

    Meanwhile back in the old country, Bangla liberals are being murdered by jihadists - but it don't seem to have spread to the UK yet. OTOH, I have to assume that the huge increase in acid attacks (several hundred a year, mostly in East London) is a Bangla thing.

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  68. Randal says:

    The age gap was immense, with Tories getting 59% of those over 65 and only 18% of those under 25.

    Assuming (as experience suggests it is not unreasonable to do) that people’s opinions change as they grow older and more experienced, that would seem a good place to be, given the demographic forecasts. According to the UK ONS the projected share of the population aged 60+ is forecast to increase from 14.9% in 2014 to 21.9% in 2039, and that will combine with the known increase in likelihood of voting with age.

    That might at least go some way to reducing the (deliberately) inbuilt bias towards Labour from ongoing mass immigration and demographic change by differential birth rates.

    Difficult to have much sympathy with the Tories on that score, since they’ve been in power now for seven years and have done nothing to cut the colossal rates of mass immigration initiated by Labour in 1997, or even to try to reduce the all pervasive political censorship and manipulation of opinion that suppresses resistance to it. Serving their business masters by maintaining the supply of cheap labour to undercut wages was more important to them than considering the long term future of the nation or even of their own party.

    Read More
    • Replies: @anon

    Assuming (as experience suggests it is not unreasonable to do) that people’s opinions change as they grow older and more experienced, that would seem a good place to be, given the demographic forecasts.
     
    no and yes

    the immigrant percentage among the young is huge, growing and concentrated - all the big cities will have gone before long

    on the other hand as a result of the above the white SJW youth from the shrinking number of affluent white areas will increasingly be forced to face the very bleak future their SJW teachers created for them

    there will be a time lag between the first and second
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  69. Randal says:
    @Simon in London
    The age gap seems insane, but I think it may be longstanding. Tories have always been the grown-up party. I remember being 19 years old in 1992 and voting Liberal Democrat, to my eternal shame.
    More worrying is if British children are now being successfully indoctrinated in cultural Marxism, traditionally a phenomenon only seen in places like Germany & Sweden. Ten-twelve years or so ago my University students (of all races) strongly rejected Political Correctness, but they had grown up pre-New Labour, when Men Were Free. Today's 18 year old University students have had cultural Marxist indoctrination all their lives, at a much more ingrained level than prior generations. The current vituperation against the DUP* from even the right-wing UK press is worrying too.

    *The Tory's new post-election partners; socially conservative Ulster Protestants who aren't big on Social Justice causes like Gay Marriage or (one suspects) transgender men in women's changing rooms.

    The age gap seems insane, but I think it may be longstanding. Tories have always been the grown-up party. I remember being 19 years old in 1992 and voting Liberal Democrat, to my eternal shame.

    It’s a longstanding trope that young people tend to be leftist, but to grow out of it. As you are probably aware, various versions of: “he who is not a socialist at 19, has no heart, he who is still a socialist at 30, has no brain” have been attributed with various degrees of speculation to Bismarck, Clemenceau, Churchill, Lloyd George and others.

    Certainly during my own lifetime, apart perhaps from a brief period of Thatcherite enthusiasm in the late 1970s and early 1980s, and some limited disillusion perhaps towards the end of the Blair/Brown era, the young have almost always strongly leaned anti-Conservative.

    That’s exacerbated when, as now, the “Conservative” Party is in office by the related tendency of the young to rebel against authority in the specific form of the party in office.

    More worrying is if British children are now being successfully indoctrinated in cultural Marxism, traditionally a phenomenon only seen in places like Germany & Sweden.

    Yes, indeed.

    I think a big part of the problem is precisely the collaboration with this indoctrination by the establishment political right that you refer to in relation to the DUP coverage, A decade or two ago there were still meaningful elite media outlets that could be regarded as conservative. Those (Times, Spectator, Telegraph etc) have mostly been taken over by the neoconservative political right and aligned with the social radicalism and identity lobbying of the left.

    Not that I’m saying many young people read those particular publications, but rather that their realignment reflects the wider position of the establishment “right”.

    There is little or no presentation of any legitimate and authoritative genuine conservatism to modern young people to provide an alternative or to help them with the necessary process of growing out of their childish leftism.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    My guess is the leftie youth of the past were very oikophobic: anti-British, anti-Empire, anti-monarchy, anti-patriotism, derisive of national symbols -- presumably unlike Americans or Canadians (or French?) who cloak themselves in the flag as they agitate for cultural and demographic destruction by the Third World.

    But has the latest crop discovered a love of "British values" now that they need a rhetorical point to get Brits to accept hostile immigrants as countrymen? -- when such values are mass immigration, historical national self-flagellation, lower class hatred, moral degeneracy and, ideally, said mass immigrants leveraging shared hatred of Empire and lip service to said degeneracy to further their political entryism in lieu of compliant working classes?

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  70. Kyle McKenna [AKA "Mika-Non"] says:

    The MSM in both the US and UK call foreign policy “strong” and “muscular” if it’s down with throwing taxpayers’ billions (and taxpayers’ sons) at the next ruinous, counterproductive War For Israel. And Israel always has a new enemy the next day because anti-semitism.

    If you think there might be a better way, you’re obviously weak and pusillanimous. Maybe even a “wimp” or “terrorist-sympathiser”. Now you’d rather be strong and muscular, wouldn’t you? Thought so.

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  71. @aceofspades
    I think we already know the voting demographics without having to look at the data, hahaha

    How much do political consultants make for telling their clients that Third World immigration means importing social democrats, anywhere and everywhere.

    Now that the secret’s out, Tory/Labour, Republicans/Democrats, et al. all know what to do, right?

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  72. Bill P says:
    @The Last Real Calvinist

    The generational differences are insane.

     

    They are. It seems the 'back to free university' pitch from Labour worked, and bigly.

    It’s a renters vs. owners issue, and it’s a problem all across the West. Young people have been getting hammered with a combination of declining wages and rising rents/property values, and today the wealth gap between young and old is the highest ever in modern times, and maybe in all of human history.

    A political realignment is absolutely unavoidable. If things don’t change – and soon – we’re probably headed for a massive wealth redistribution program within the next five to ten years.

    Read More
    • Agree: Seamus Padraig
    • Replies: @AM
    "today the wealth gap between young and old is the highest ever in modern times, and maybe in all of human history."

    Don't forget that socialism only adds to the wealth gap. Lots of people wondering how they can afford even one kid while their 20% (US, modest) - 50% (Europe, modest) goes down the rabbit hole to pay for health care and pensions because Mom and Dad "need" to keep their homes, relax in retirement, etc, etc.

    If there is a wealth redistribution, it will have to be, for once, the other way around: from old to young. Either that taxing the wealthy old to give to the poor old, because the young ain't got no more.

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  73. eah says:

    OT

    Eric Holder’s contributions to America continue to pile up:

    Uber Board Adopts All Recommendations From Eric Holder Investigation

    Read More
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  74. AM says:
    @Maj. Kong
    The age chasm was perhaps the largest ever recorded, the surge in youth turnout is due to the bribery and the very real thought that Brexit would be vetoed by a PM Corbyn. This is a generation that has only known the EU, and has credible fears that they won't be able to live/work in the EU countries anymore. Topped off with a heavy dose of cultural Marxism.

    The argument of the remain group in Brexit was that Leave would cause an economic disaster (but the euro won't???). The Leave campaign won because they promised to spend the money the UK pays the EU, on the NHS. But that wasn't something they could deliver on, and the Conservative Party didn't run a manifesto on eliminating foreign aid and boosting the NHS.

    “This is a generation that has only known the EU, and has credible fears that they won’t be able to live/work in the EU countries anymore. Topped off with a heavy dose of cultural Marxism.”

    It’s mostly the later. They’re convinced if they’re not part of the herd, they’ll die. The brainwash is almost total, on the island that is known for their stubborn independent types. I asked on despairing young British Twitter user after Briexit if she had a heritage worth preserving. She seemed to hardly understand the question.

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  75. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @Randal

    The age gap seems insane, but I think it may be longstanding. Tories have always been the grown-up party. I remember being 19 years old in 1992 and voting Liberal Democrat, to my eternal shame.
     
    It's a longstanding trope that young people tend to be leftist, but to grow out of it. As you are probably aware, various versions of: "he who is not a socialist at 19, has no heart, he who is still a socialist at 30, has no brain" have been attributed with various degrees of speculation to Bismarck, Clemenceau, Churchill, Lloyd George and others.

    Certainly during my own lifetime, apart perhaps from a brief period of Thatcherite enthusiasm in the late 1970s and early 1980s, and some limited disillusion perhaps towards the end of the Blair/Brown era, the young have almost always strongly leaned anti-Conservative.

    That's exacerbated when, as now, the "Conservative" Party is in office by the related tendency of the young to rebel against authority in the specific form of the party in office.

    More worrying is if British children are now being successfully indoctrinated in cultural Marxism, traditionally a phenomenon only seen in places like Germany & Sweden.
     
    Yes, indeed.

    I think a big part of the problem is precisely the collaboration with this indoctrination by the establishment political right that you refer to in relation to the DUP coverage, A decade or two ago there were still meaningful elite media outlets that could be regarded as conservative. Those (Times, Spectator, Telegraph etc) have mostly been taken over by the neoconservative political right and aligned with the social radicalism and identity lobbying of the left.

    Not that I'm saying many young people read those particular publications, but rather that their realignment reflects the wider position of the establishment "right".

    There is little or no presentation of any legitimate and authoritative genuine conservatism to modern young people to provide an alternative or to help them with the necessary process of growing out of their childish leftism.

    My guess is the leftie youth of the past were very oikophobic: anti-British, anti-Empire, anti-monarchy, anti-patriotism, derisive of national symbols — presumably unlike Americans or Canadians (or French?) who cloak themselves in the flag as they agitate for cultural and demographic destruction by the Third World.

    But has the latest crop discovered a love of “British values” now that they need a rhetorical point to get Brits to accept hostile immigrants as countrymen? — when such values are mass immigration, historical national self-flagellation, lower class hatred, moral degeneracy and, ideally, said mass immigrants leveraging shared hatred of Empire and lip service to said degeneracy to further their political entryism in lieu of compliant working classes?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Randal

    But has the latest crop discovered a love of “British values”
     
    The new "British values" beloved of "Conservative", Labour and LibDem politicians - meaning ideas and attitudes that would have been regarded by the vast majority of our ancestors as laughable at best, and most likely as morally abhorrent or insane.

    I don't think the Labour-voting youth would much use the term, but it's clearly mostly well indoctrinated in modern "British values".
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  76. AM says:
    @Bill P
    It's a renters vs. owners issue, and it's a problem all across the West. Young people have been getting hammered with a combination of declining wages and rising rents/property values, and today the wealth gap between young and old is the highest ever in modern times, and maybe in all of human history.

    A political realignment is absolutely unavoidable. If things don't change - and soon - we're probably headed for a massive wealth redistribution program within the next five to ten years.

    “today the wealth gap between young and old is the highest ever in modern times, and maybe in all of human history.”

    Don’t forget that socialism only adds to the wealth gap. Lots of people wondering how they can afford even one kid while their 20% (US, modest) – 50% (Europe, modest) goes down the rabbit hole to pay for health care and pensions because Mom and Dad “need” to keep their homes, relax in retirement, etc, etc.

    If there is a wealth redistribution, it will have to be, for once, the other way around: from old to young. Either that taxing the wealthy old to give to the poor old, because the young ain’t got no more.

    Read More
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  77. Tiny Duck says:

    Most of uks youth are People of Color

    People of Color are the future

    Read More
    • Replies: @fish
    'S'mofo butter layin' me to da' BONE! Jackin' me up... tight me!

    -Leonard Pitts
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  78. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer

    The differing trajectories of Jewish voters in Britain and the U.S. is curious. Ronald Reagan was roughly as pro-Semitic as Margaret Thatcher, but this did not lead to the kind of historic realignment in America as Thatcher was able to bring about in Britain.

    Essex man (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Essex_man) being the analogue of Reagan Democrat, perhaps the British class system entrenched Jews in the nouveau riche, the types Thatcher appealed to.

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  79. “… a retired Canberra MP and big time lawyer in Melbourne …”.

    The only one that comes to mind who might be sympathetic to the views in this blog would be Neil Brown QC.

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  80. anon says: • Disclaimer
    @Anatoly Karlin
    Not an exit poll, just a (very big) ordinary poll.

    https://twitter.com/LordAshcroft/status/873058461696774145/

    The generational differences are insane.

    (I recall seeing another graph showing data for age groups relative to previous elections. I can't find it now, but it showed that the difference was unprecedentedly high during this election).

    The generational differences are insane.

    stark difference with France where among the white youth it’s close to 50/50 for FN

    it’s all those 1930s cultural marxists chased out of Europe into the Anglosphere education system imo

    took maybe 20 or so years to fully take over teacher education – say 1960 – then 40-ish years to replace all the previous teachers – say 2000 – so from then the public schools became an SJW Red Guard production line

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  81. anon says: • Disclaimer
    @Andrei Martyanov
    I only read that British Parliament now has 45 openly LGBT MPs--a record. But still, a long way for appropriate representation, only 7% (45 in all). A huge room for "improvement".

    1) it should be around 2% not 7%

    and

    2) there are far more when you add all the closeted ones – especially on the conservative side

    this vast over-representation is a function of how politicians are filtered on PC by the money men – the homosexual ones share an interest in supporting PC whether publicly or privately

    the overwhelming disproportion of homosexual politicians supporting PC for their own interests is partly why they say nothing about the media’s attempt to normalize pedophilia through their promotion of pre-pubescent transgender

    Read More
    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    SmoothieX12 is Russian. As far as the Russians are concerned, until a man beats other men with sticks while laughing off steaming temperatures in the banya and actually tries to prove himself a man, he isn't. Masculinity in the West is hilariously weaksauce in comparison.

    The attitude does bring its own set of problems, but unlike the West, they haven't gotten to the point that about about "manspreading" and legislating it to be illegal.

    We live in a world of clowns, fit only for clowns and jokers.

    , @Andrei Martyanov

    the media’s attempt to normalize pedophilia through their promotion of pre-pubescent transgender
     
    But, but.. it is such a "fine" tradition of European intellectual class--to fantasize, be it to Nabokov's Lolita, or signing French letter for abolition of the age of consent. It is so "intellectual" and so "sophisticated". Per media--I can not say what percentage is there, but, I suspect, very many of those media-types are amoral low-life creatures. Many of them do look like such, literally.
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  82. The Tories have kept the mass immigration floodgates open. The mass immigration into England started in the late 1940s, picked up considerably in the 50s and 60s and exploded after Tony Blair’s treasonous 1997 open borders immigration policy went into effect.

    The Tories have very little credibility as an oppostion force to counter the mass immigration proclivities of Labour. Prime Minister May was Home Secretary for 6 years and the net migration intake figures were something like 300, 000 a year. England is now one of the most densely populated parts of Europe.

    Demography and debt are leading to a very volatile political atmosphere in England. Civil war will be the most likely outcome. The Bank of England has engaged in the most radical bout of monetary policy in its existence. England’s disastrous mass immigration policy has kept the wage inflation that would ordinarily occur during bouts of monetary extremism at bay. The Bank of England has used mass immigration policy to mask the wage inflation that would’ve happened under normal rates of immigration.

    Sailer’s concept of Miami operating as a money laundering center in the 1980s can be used to describe what the City of London has done for globalized plutocrats.

    Read More
    • Replies: @anon

    Sailer’s concept of Miami operating as a money laundering center in the 1980s can be used to describe what the City of London has done for globalized plutocrats.
     
    yes - adult Leftists are maybe 1/3 of the problem but the other 2/3 is the parasitic banking mafia (partly because they finance those parts of leftism which serve their interests e.g. identity politics)
    , @Expletive Deleted

    England is now one of the most densely populated parts of Europe.
     
    Net immigration down to quarter of a million last year due to popular demand (carefully 'revised' figures). If there's another general election in October, we'll have become permanently enriched to the tune of well over a million extra by the election after that. And so on.
    It seems to escape our landlords-in-government that Britain is an island (with a bit they grabbed off another island close by). What's the plan? Send them to Scotland? Build dykes and drain the Wash? Pave over the Dogger Bank and put them there? Get Tommy Walsh to stick in an extra floor?
    The only consideration seems to be "more tenants=extra rents, yum-yum".
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  83. anon says: • Disclaimer
    @Hugh
    I would be interested in knowing how muslims voted. Connected with that, I would like to see what percentage of the 18-24 age group that voted is muslim.

    I would be interested in knowing how muslims voted

    overwhelmingly labour and with an exceptionally high voting rate because clan chiefs use the postal voting system to ensure 1) everyone in their clan group votes and 2) all the votes go to the same person.

    Connected with that, I would like to see what percentage of the 18-24 age group that voted is muslim.

    yes, me too

    there was a huge surge of young voters to Labour and a lot of it was SJW Red Guards from affluent white areas but a lot of it was immigrant youth who are voting on ethnic reasons not SJW ones – hard to separate out without clear data.

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  84. anon says: • Disclaimer
    @Anonymous

    He got very bad press both in Britain and America, perhaps because he was seen as anti-Israel.
     
    http://www.jpost.com/Diaspora/Poll-Only-13-percent-of-British-Jews-intend-to-vote-Labor-494366

    “Labour and Conservative support has changed in our Jewish polling over the last two years” he said. “But I wouldn’t describe any of the changes as surprising. Even in April 2015, when it appeared Ed Miliband [who's Jewish] was heading for No. 10 and Jeremy Corbyn wasn’t a factor in front-line Labour politics, the party was only receiving 22% of the vote in our Jewish polling, with more than two-thirds of respondents planning to vote Conservative.”

    ... Asked why only 20 years ago Labour had once electorally excelled in seats with high Jewish populations, whereas it now finds itself lagging behind, Alderman noted that “Tony Blair was regarded as a friend of the Jewish people and a friend of Israel. That pedigree is not enjoyed by the present leadership of the Labour Party.”
     

    Is it hard-left Marxist types siding with the Palestinian underdog or dog-whistles to Muslim constituents (or both)?

    Is it hard-left Marxist types siding with the Palestinian underdog or dog-whistles to Muslim constituents (or both)?

    both:
    - small group of Trots who have always been pro-Palestinian
    - large Muslim voting bloc Labour are now dependent on to survive
    - large bloc of SJW youth whose anti-white indoctrination vis a vis colonialism in the public schools gets applied to Israel

    the key factor was Labour becoming dependent on the Muslim voting bloc as that ties the hands of the opposing forces

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  85. LondonBob says:
    @Andrei Martyanov
    I only read that British Parliament now has 45 openly LGBT MPs--a record. But still, a long way for appropriate representation, only 7% (45 in all). A huge room for "improvement".

    Gays are 1.6% of the population apparently but they do correlate highly with eccentricity, intelligence and narcissism. Of course also with engagement in politics and the media as well as dislike of sports (very Jewish).

    It is currently a big thing for the media political class that the Conservatives are going to do a deal with the outspokenly anti gay DUP.

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  86. anon says: • Disclaimer
    @Anonymous
    https://twitter.com/PatrickRuffini/status/873040676639784961

    https://twitter.com/PatrickRuffini/status/873041076784738305

    yes – the conservatives made a massive tactical mistake early on which triggered a lot of people who own their own home – which is their core demographic

    hence they did better in poorer (white) areas than more affluent ones

    (that’s actually the biggest reason they did so badly but it’s irrelevant to the future as it was a one off and the real tectonic shifts made apparent by the election are permanent i.e. immigration has made it possible for a far left Labour party to get elected)

    it’s like if California was a separate country and not constrained by being part of the US the Dems would have gone full Marxist by now and Cali would be turning into Venezuela – the UK is heading in that direction as a result of changing the electorate with immigration

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  87. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @Anonymous
    Due to Britain's wonderful first-past-the-post individual constituency parliamentary voting system what we have now is the Democratic Unionist Party (the DUP) a parochial, sectarian political party which commands a segment of Northern Ireland's, (population 1.7 million, Protestants around 60% of that ), Loyalist population as its sole voting base, effectively having complete and absolute control of the Westminster Parliament and 65 million British subjects.
    Both Tony Blair and the Tories defended the current voting system to the utmost hilt. Blair - characteristically foolishly - refused to reform it when he had the power to do so.

    Anyhow, most non Ulster Britons know very very little about the DUP and its policies other than that it was the Rev. Ian Paisley's mob during the 'troubles' and the more hardcore of the two Unionist parties. Enoch Powell, as it happened resigned from the Conservative Party in disgust over the putative EU, or EEC as it was in those days, and became an Official Unionist Party MP - they, I believe are more genteel and traditionally Tory in outlook.

    The DUP are really old fashioned fundamentalist Scots-Irish Presbyterianism at assembly.
    One good thing to take away is that they have an even dimmer view of what they term 'mohammedism' than they even have of Roman Catholicism, and likely they will try to to limit further Muslim immigration into the United Kingdom they so love.

    After decades of the English spilling so much blood and treasure for the largely thankless task of defending the Loyalists, perhaps just perhaps, they might give back something worthwhile in return.

    Of course, who can ever forget the Reverend Dr. Paisley – he was also a Member of the ‘European Parliament’ as well as being a Westminster MP, ferociously denouncing Pope John Paul II as the Anti-Christ, from the floor of the Strasbourg Parliament whilst the reigning Pontiff was addressing the ‘parliament’?

    Strangely enough – a real right royal European stew for you Yanks – a descendant and heir of the last Habsburg Emperor – devout Catholic he – personally tackled the Rev. Dr. Paisley on this outburst.

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    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Also, who could forget that occasion in which the Rev. Paisley - absolutely incensed by Margaret Thatcher's signing of the 'Anglo-Irish' accord, used his position in the pulpit to solemnly bring down a curse in the name of the Almighty on to Mrs Thatcher?
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  88. anon says: • Disclaimer
    @anony-mouse
    Look at the bright side. Corbyn was offering free everything and he still lost.

    Would a Sanders offering free everything lose in the US?

    yes but it was close and every year the political class bring in more voters – the far Left in UK now know they have changed the electorate so much it is only a matter of time before they win permanently – like California

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  89. eah says:

    The truth is that the US government is still behaving like a 5th column:

    Homeland Security secretary suggests amnesty for Dreamers, implores Congress to solve problem

    “You’ve got to solve this problem,” Homeland Security Secretary John F. Kelly told the House Homeland Security Committee when members prodded him not to deport Dreamers…In two days of testimony to Congress, Homeland Security Secretary John F. Kelly said he doubts his ability to oust some 250,000 immigrants from Central American countries who have been in the U.S. for nearly two decades on a temporary humanitarian relief program. He also signaled that he would keep protecting 780,000 Dreamers from deportation and hoped Congress would grant them permanent status.

    So after all the Trump campaign lies rhetoric, this is the result: a cuck as head of Homeland Security — a beta who whines and wrings his hands like a woman while testifying about how incompetent he is — someone who gives up without even trying.

    Read More
    • Replies: @snorlax
    Trump should've nominated Sessions for Homeland Security and a tough-as-nails, no-compromises prosecutor (preferably Giuliani) for AG.
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  90. LondonBob says:
    @jim jones
    I know some Malaysian students and, being Commonwealth citizens, they are entitled to vote in the British General Election. Their Imam told them to vote Labour.

    It is nuts but the Conservatives have done nothing to stop Commonwealth citizens from voting in our elections.

    A big failure for me was the press and Conservative politicians spent large amounts of time attacking Corbyn for being a terrorist sympathiser over his support for the Palestinians. The British public is very pro Palestinian and this had absolutely no effect. Simply incomprehensible to them why this would not work and why Corbyn would be popular to people. Many ways similar to attacks on Trump. My Jewish friends are wild in their hatred for Corbyn so I think that is largely a reflection of their worldview, which unsurprisingly very few British people share.

    Another Trump parallel is a reasonably large number of Remain voters simply refuse to accept the referendum result and seem to spend every waking over frustrating Brexit. Many voted Labour despite Corbyn being a lifelong Eurosceptic who has endorsed Brexit.

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    • Replies: @snorlax
    Yes, I was very confused as to why the attacks on Corbyn as terrorist sympathizer focused on his Hamas sympathies instead of more fertile ground — it was political malpractice that his speech demanding Parliament observe a moment of silence for IRA terrorists wasn't plastered on the front pages of the entire Tory press. (Likewise his support for the Argentine side in the Falklands, his endorsement of the Brighton hotel bombing, etc).
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  91. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @Simon in London
    The age gap seems insane, but I think it may be longstanding. Tories have always been the grown-up party. I remember being 19 years old in 1992 and voting Liberal Democrat, to my eternal shame.
    More worrying is if British children are now being successfully indoctrinated in cultural Marxism, traditionally a phenomenon only seen in places like Germany & Sweden. Ten-twelve years or so ago my University students (of all races) strongly rejected Political Correctness, but they had grown up pre-New Labour, when Men Were Free. Today's 18 year old University students have had cultural Marxist indoctrination all their lives, at a much more ingrained level than prior generations. The current vituperation against the DUP* from even the right-wing UK press is worrying too.

    *The Tory's new post-election partners; socially conservative Ulster Protestants who aren't big on Social Justice causes like Gay Marriage or (one suspects) transgender men in women's changing rooms.

    Apparently, something like over 60% of the Northern Ireland economy is attributable to government spending – no doubt most of that money is a direct transfer from England.
    This is higher proportion of the economy than the pure 1990 central European communist states ever achieved.

    How does this sit with the Conservative Party aim of ‘shrinking the state’ to its barest minimum?

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  92. Jews tend to vote Conservative in the UK and most of the Jewish candidates for parliament are Conservative candidates. Jews will tend to vote strongly for Jewish candidates, for some reason.

    However there are not many Jews in the UK, and they tend to be concentrated in a few constituencies in London, which is a large banking center, and one or two other large cities like Leeds, which used to be a center of the woolens and tailoring industry, and Manchester, where cotton was king. (Friedrich Engels was sent by his family in Germany to work for a cotton firm in Manchester.)

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  93. anon says: • Disclaimer
    @anony-mouse
    (as I mentioned on another Unz blog)

    Corbyn is great for Israel.

    1/ He prevents a real credible anti-Israel Labour leader from becoming PM-oh I don't know, let's call this person 'Sadiq Khan'

    2/ He scares British Jews, some of whom will move to Israel, the rest who will become even more pro-Israel.

    3/ As mentioned here before, he 's given more power to the most pro-Israel small party, the DUP.

    translation:

    the people who want to see Europe destroyed by immigration believe it will be like Moorish Spain all over again

    they think Israel will end up sitting happily in the middle of a sea of Islam from Ireland to India

    not
    going
    to
    happen

    they just hate white people too much to see it

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  94. Art Deco says:

    Corbyn seems to have finessed and downplayed the Brexit issue in this campaign about as well as possible. This adept performance is kind of surprising to casual observers like myself because he had gotten very bad press both in Britain and America, perhaps because he was seen as anti-Israel. F

    It’s doubtful anyone at the New York Times gives a rip about Israel and the British press, like the British chatterati generally, is hostile to Israel by default.

    Corbyn grew up in the professional class and has accomplished brothers. He himself has the worst academic record of any British party leader in the last 80 years and a superlatively unimpressive pre-political career. His colleagues in the Labour Party left him on the back bench for 30-odd years. It’s a reasonable wager that’s because there isn’t much between his two ears but sectarian phraseology.

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    • Disagree: German_reader
    • Replies: @Mr. Anon

    It’s doubtful anyone at the New York Times gives a rip about Israel....
     
    Sure, David Brooks, Thomas Friedman, Nicholas Kristof, Roger Cohen.................they care nothing at all about Israel. Israel is a matter of complete indifference to the staff of the New York Times.

    Do you even read what you write? Does anybody?
    , @German_reader

    the British press, like the British chatterati generally, is hostile to Israel by default.
     
    "The British press" doesn't consist of just the Guardian; there is strong pro-Israel sentiment in "conservative" publications like the Telegraph and the Spectator.
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  95. Art Deco says:
    @Randal

    It isn’t a matter of how he is seen, it is the reality. He’s a conventional anti-white Muslim Supremacist.
     
    LOL! He's an old school commie type, with their standard internationalist and anti-patriotic opinions, not in the slightest a "muslim supremacist".

    Do you really believe what you write? I mean, "muslim supremacist" is clearly absurdly exaggerating the position to the point of dishonesty, but are you aware of that and engaging in knowing hyperbole, or do you actually believe that such hysterical nonsense is objective truth?

    Being blinded by partisan/patriotic group loyalty is understandable, I suppose, up to a point, but there should be a line drawn somewhere.

    He strongly favors Hamas and Hezbollah over Israel.
     
    Which is a perfectly legitimate position for anyone to take. There's no loyalty due to Israel by any member of any European nation, and (to say the least) it's arguable that the Lebanese Shiites and Palestinian muslims have been the victims of Israeli behaviour over the course of the past 70 years or so and are entitled to fight back.

    The case can be argued the other way, as well, and the pro-Israel position is also a legitimate one, of course, but that's characteristic of how disinterested observers tend to view distant murderous squabbles between foreigners.

    Which is a perfectly legitimate position for anyone to take.

    No it isn’t. Hamas and Hezbollah are criminal organizations who attack everything the West stands for. Hezbollah’s constituency has no legitimate beef with Israel at all, but that has not in the past dissuaded Hezbollah from engaging in pointless cross-border violence.

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    • Replies: @Seamus Padraig

    Hamas and Hezbollah are criminal organizations who attack everything the West stands for. Hezbollah’s constituency has no legitimate beef with Israel at all, but that has not in the past dissuaded Hezbollah from engaging in pointless cross-border violence.
     
    Au contraire! Hezbollah defends their constituency against the Zio-state's cross-border violence. How many times has Israel invaded Lebanon? Three times already? And then how many times has Hezbollah invaded Israel? By my count, zero.

    As far as being a "criminal organization" is concerned, Hezbollah's only crime is that they stand in the way of 'Greater Israel'. Come to think of it, that's Hamas' and Syria's only crime too.

    But far be it from me to let logic get in the way of Zionism.
    , @Randal

    Hamas and Hezbollah are criminal organizations who attack everything the West stands for. Hezbollah’s constituency has no legitimate beef with Israel at all, but that has not in the past dissuaded Hezbollah from engaging in pointless cross-border violence.
     
    LOL! If having your country invaded and occupied doesn't count as a "legimitate beef" for you then you are not rational on the topic.

    As for Hamas and Hezbollah, the honest assessment is that they are legitimate popular national defence organisations for their respective peoples, that have arisen in response to threats to their people. You can then debate their merits vis a vis their Israeli enemies all you like, but pretending they are enemies of any other country other than to the extent that country supports their own enemy is either dishonest or ignorant, albeit understandable for Israeli partisans.
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  96. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @Whiskey
    Pro-Muslim is objectively anti-White. There is no other way around it. You lot have to decide if you hate Jews more than you want White people and their culture to survive. Just look at the Yazidi, Egyptian Copts, and others to see what is is in store for Whites under Muslim rule. Fancy living in Algeria?

    Corbyn is insane, in that Muslims are directly the biggest threat to Europe in both culture and demographics (Africans a close second). However he is very BAD for Whites (and Israel, no place is Whiter than Israel and Israel is hate hate hated by the Third BECAUSE IT IS WHITE). [You don't see HATE HATE HATE for say, Burma for ethnically cleansing its Muslims out of the country, or Thailand. Non-Whites will always stick together to hate hate hate Whitey.

    The Irish Republic is also insane, or rather pozzed, by its women, the beautiful Vogue Williams being the exception. Most of this Pro-Muslim stuff is done by fatties, ugly old barren cat ladies, and the like hoping for some hot Muslim houseboy action. The female equivalent of those disgusting dudes who rush over to Thailand for underage hookers. You can just check out Heartiste's post on that matter, with pic after pic of "Refugees Welcome" ladies who have not had sex in years.

    Like it or not, this election was a referendum on immediate total surrender or slow motion surrender and immediate surrender won. Brexit is dead in the water as are any limits on refugees or Muslim aggression. But hey, aging cat ladies and fatties got their Jihad-y Muslims to "welcome." Reminds of how Scott Peterson got tons of love letters after he was imprisoned for killing his wife.

    [Israel will in the end look after itself -- that's what its nukes are for, unless it too is so pozzed with its women that it simply surrenders which significant portions want. Recall that women don't run the risk that men do under conquerors. A pretty woman can always be Sultana.]

    White men aren’t the solution to saving Western civilization. When they were holding all of the cards they blew it. On twitter and Facebook it seems like every white boy is tripping over himself to attack Trump and promote diversity. If this is to get SJW white females I can assure them–after decades of experience with lots of white women (all 9+’s)– it’s definitely not worth selling out. Do like Derb and go for the oriental bush. And try to save your civilization from a Camp of the Saints on bath salts.

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  97. Being opposed to a lot of what Israel does as a matter of foreign policy has nothing to do with being antisemitic.

    Corbyn, it should be noted, is a fluent speaker of Spanish who raised a family with a South American wife.

    After university he spent a couple of years working for Voluntary Service Overseas in Jamaica, which is a kind of UK equivalent to the Peace Corps. I am sure he had a good time imbibing the local culture of the late 60′s.

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    • Replies: @Anonymous
    He's been married to two Latin American ladies in succession.
    This apart from a marriage to an Englishwoman, and a passionate fling with one Diane Abbott, known affectionately around these parts as the 'Hackney Hippo'.

    The bearded old goat resembles more and more another passionate unconventional socialist of that peculiar 'gentle, bearded' school, namely DH Lawrence, 'phallic consciousness' and all.
    Or Keir Hardie. Whatever takes your fancy.
    , @Gabriel M

    Corbyn, it should be noted, is a fluent speaker of Spanish who raised a family with a South American wife.
     
    Umm, why should it be noted?
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  98. anon says: • Disclaimer
    @Lot

    He prevents a real credible anti-Israel Labour leader from becoming PM-oh I don’t know, let’s call this person ‘Sadiq Khan’
     
    There is no way the 93% white British electorate is going to vote in a Pakistani Muslim as PM. Totally aside from the issues, it would would be a symbolic humiliation of the WWC, who are still the core of Labour support.

    There is no way the 93% white British electorate is going to vote in a Pakistani Muslim as PM.

    as usual you are ignoring the percentages among the *young* – the percentage of white British among the 18-24 age group in the big cities is tiny and getting lower every year – so it’s just a matter of time

    although you’re right the post you’re responding to was nonsense – Corbyn’s ascendancy will enable more radical Muslims to important jobs inside Labour not less

    #

    recent London young mayor candidates

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  99. anon says: • Disclaimer
    @SnakeEyes
    Kind of funny that the respondents to the Jewish Chronicle poll found every UK political party to be significantly anti-semitic. Paranoid much?

    Paranoid much?

    their definition of where anti-semitism begins is ridiculous of course (cos paranoia) but mass Muslim immigration has made all the parties tone down overt support for Israel so they’re right the tide is turning against them – and mostly by their own hand

    (opening the borders because they thought it would make them safer)

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  100. anon says: • Disclaimer
    @Jason Liu
    my face when Jews and Chinese are more right wing than white brits

    what does that tell you?

    it tells you the number one priority for a healthy nation is a non-pozzed media and education system

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  101. @Gabriel M
    Thom Yorke doesn't need the money. The Pixies did need the money, so that probably explains why they broke the boycott, but Radiohead don't. The reason they won't join in his because the guitarist is married to an Israeli lass and hence knows enough to know that the SJW narrative is untrue. (Of course, he is not thoughtful enough to ask whether maybe the narrative is also untrue about things he does not know about, but every so often this does happen). As a general rule, the SJW/Svigor narrative is so over the top that simply being minimally acquainted with the facts on the ground inoculates you against it.

    I've often thought whether it wouldn't have been wise on the part of South Africa, Rhodesia, and the old South to have set aside some money to pay for vacations and show people around the place. Might have bought them a few decades.

    I’ve often thought whether it wouldn’t have been wise on the part of South Africa, Rhodesia, and the old South to have set aside some money to pay for vacations and show people around the place. Might have bought them a few decades.

    Or maybe they should’ve just spent more money on lobbying in Washington.

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    • Replies: @Gabriel M
    Why not both?
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  102. Xxkxk says:

    “And the Greene family was Irish, English, and Scottish. ‘I know the family, I went to Rupert’s mother’s funeral when she died at 103,’ he points out.”

    So Steve is pointing out since she lived to 103, she definetely was Jewish.

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  103. @Gabriel M
    Thom Yorke doesn't need the money. The Pixies did need the money, so that probably explains why they broke the boycott, but Radiohead don't. The reason they won't join in his because the guitarist is married to an Israeli lass and hence knows enough to know that the SJW narrative is untrue. (Of course, he is not thoughtful enough to ask whether maybe the narrative is also untrue about things he does not know about, but every so often this does happen). As a general rule, the SJW/Svigor narrative is so over the top that simply being minimally acquainted with the facts on the ground inoculates you against it.

    I've often thought whether it wouldn't have been wise on the part of South Africa, Rhodesia, and the old South to have set aside some money to pay for vacations and show people around the place. Might have bought them a few decades.

    Thom Yorke doesn’t need the money. The Pixies did need the money, so that probably explains why they broke the boycott, but Radiohead don’t. The reason they won’t join in his because the guitarist is married to an Israeli lass and hence knows enough to know that the SJW narrative is untrue.

    Ah! Yenta-fever. That explains a lot.

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  104. rw95 says:
    @Anatoly Karlin
    Not an exit poll, just a (very big) ordinary poll.

    https://twitter.com/LordAshcroft/status/873058461696774145/

    The generational differences are insane.

    (I recall seeing another graph showing data for age groups relative to previous elections. I can't find it now, but it showed that the difference was unprecedentedly high during this election).

    So much for that whole “the youth support nationalism” thing.

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    • Replies: @anon

    So much for that whole “the youth support nationalism” thing.
     
    c. 50% of white youth in France

    c. 10% in England

    cultural Marxists were chased out of continental Europe by Hitler into the Anglosphere where they poisoned the education system
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  105. @Bill B.

    There is no way the 93% white British electorate is going to vote in a Pakistani Muslim as PM.

     

    Not now maybe. But soon. The UK needs to implement anti-sharia (against multiple wives; low female education; purdah; free money for every child; etc.) or face oblivion.

    The Labour party will become the party of the minorities and youth in lockstep with the decline of whites. (Guidofawkes the political website has election pamphlets from Labour candidates urging Muslims to vote even if they don't believe in democracy because voting can hasten the changes they want!)

    This is a s**t academic in Huffpo UK saying, amusingly, that the fascists are totally wrong about Islamification but that Muslims are doubling every census:

    So what does the growth in the number of Muslims mean? Inevitably, the Far Right will claim we are witnessing the ‘Islamification of Britain’. More sober minded people will rightfully recognise that this is not occurring whatsoever. Muslims are still a small minority in British society, but a noticeable one. The large number of Muslim residents, most of whom are citizens who hold a British passport, are entitled to vote and pay their taxes, should be respected as a significant part of the nation who may have unique needs, but who also have a unique contribution to make to the nation.

    All the indicating factors suggest that the growth of the Muslim population is certainly not declining, is unlikely to be stabilising and if anything, is going to continue to grow in the future. By the next census Muslims may even double again and make up 10% of the population. These statistics encourage us to think more carefully about the provisions made for British Muslims and the ways in which they are an integral part of the nation.

    Follow Dr. Leon Moosavi on Twitter: www.twitter.com/Leon_Moosavi
     

    It is not just this single guy. The proliferation of liberal writers who write GoodLies right before contradicting them with BadTruths at newspapers like HuffPo and the Guardian has become quite common. I wonder if they ever experience any cognitive dissonance.

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  106. Art Deco says:

    British Jews are predominantly Orthodox, and tend to understand themselves as a confession, not an ethnic group. There are only about 500,000 Orthodox Jews in the United States and most self-identified Jews are not even notionally religious. (I doubt Orthodox Jews are all that wedded to the Democratic Party or share the affluence of the rest of the Jewish population).

    One other thing: after 1880, the Republican Party was adept at presenting itself as the vehicle for old stock Americans while capturing small immigrant streams. The Democrats caputured large immigrant flows (Jews among them), especially after 1930. Eastern and Southern European ethnics reacted contra the disorders which erupted in core cities after 1962 and largely decamped to the Republicans. Jews protected their persons in various ways, but in their civic aspect reacted-to-the-reaction. Also, there isn’t much of an evangelical element in Britain, whereas in the United States it is demographically important and, after 1978, aligned with the Republican Party. Rank and file Jews (or, rather about 2/3 of them) have a fairly uncomplicated hostility to evangelicals and Jewish publicists (e.g. Hendrik Hertzberg, Michael Kinsley, and Martin Peretz) are explicit and unashamed in this regard. Jewish Republicans (e.g. the Podhoretz clan) tend to be more hostile to Catholics.

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    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Corbyn and his 'trendy' pro Palestinian stance, are, in reality the standard operating meme with Britain's medium to hard left rather like 'anti racism' feminism 'gay rights' etc etc.
    Such luminaries as Ken Livingstone and George Galloway are also big advocates.
    They are really 'SWP' (Socialist Workers Party) lite.
    Apart from their insufferably stupid 'pro refugee' flyposters and stickers and their hideously violent rent a mob bullies, who regularly physically attack nationalists, the strongly pro Palestine and anti Zionist SWP is distinguished by a more or less exclusively ethnically Jewish leadership caste.
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  107. Art Deco says:
    @Randal

    Kind of funny that the respondents to the Jewish Chronicle poll found every UK political party to be significantly anti-semitic. Paranoid much?
     
    No different from blacks insisting the world is racist.

    Exact same motives - special pleading, self interest and justification of extreme measures.

    No different from blacks insisting the world is racist.

    No it isn’t. See Caroline Glick’s account of her most recent trip to the UK (for a debate at Oxford). Anti-semitism is quite normal among fancy people in Britain.

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    • Replies: @Randal
    Antisemitism isn't normal (in the sense you use the term, meaning commonplace). Opposition to Israel, which is almost invariably misunderstood or misrepresented as antisemitism by jews and their sympathisers, is fairly commonplace.

    A recognition of the fundamental truth that jewish people are, like muslims, a foreign group tending to external patriotic and cultural loyalties is also not unknown and similarly misrepresented, though increasingly suppressed by the establishment and even by the state.
    , @JerryC
    Ah, Caroline Glick, now there's an unbiased source.
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  108. Mr. Anon says:
    @Art Deco
    Corbyn seems to have finessed and downplayed the Brexit issue in this campaign about as well as possible. This adept performance is kind of surprising to casual observers like myself because he had gotten very bad press both in Britain and America, perhaps because he was seen as anti-Israel. F

    It's doubtful anyone at the New York Times gives a rip about Israel and the British press, like the British chatterati generally, is hostile to Israel by default.

    Corbyn grew up in the professional class and has accomplished brothers. He himself has the worst academic record of any British party leader in the last 80 years and a superlatively unimpressive pre-political career. His colleagues in the Labour Party left him on the back bench for 30-odd years. It's a reasonable wager that's because there isn't much between his two ears but sectarian phraseology.

    It’s doubtful anyone at the New York Times gives a rip about Israel….

    Sure, David Brooks, Thomas Friedman, Nicholas Kristof, Roger Cohen……………..they care nothing at all about Israel. Israel is a matter of complete indifference to the staff of the New York Times.

    Do you even read what you write? Does anybody?

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    • Replies: @Art Deco
    Ross Douthat writes for the New York Times, ergo what? The Sulzbergers will be attending the Tridentine Mass?

    None of the people you list hand out any assignments, produce any original reporting, greenlight any stories, determine one line-item of the editorial budget, or contribute one word to the editorial policy or editorial line of the paper. They merely give an indication of what the Sulzberger's fancy is the perimeter of permissible public discussion.

    A couple of years back, someone did a study of who Times employees follow on Twitter. The answer was pretty much that they follow people who resemble Times employees. Only 10% were following Ross Douthat. He's an ornament.
    , @biz
    In addition to Art Deco's reply to you, I'll note that only one of the four people you listed is particularly pro-Israel (Brooks). As far as I'm aware, Roger Cohen has only written editorials critical of Israel, while Friedman has been critical of their military policy but grudgingly admires their economic growth.
    , @James Kabala
    I believe Kristof is actually not Jewish. Whether he is or is not, his writings on Israel appear to be pro-two-state-solution:

    https://www.google.com/#q=Nicholas+Kristof+Israel&start=0

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  109. @Chrisnonymous
    In this case, I don't think the demographics are as interesting as the issues. From Lord Ashcroft:

    Asked unprompted which issues had been the most important in their voting decision, Conservatives were most likely to name Brexit (as were Liberal Democrats), followed by having the right leadership. Labour voters, meanwhile, were most likely to name the NHS and spending cuts. Only 8% of Labour voters named Brexit as the most important issue in their decision, compared to 48% of those who voted Conservative.
     
    Of course, people's self-professed reasons for voting may not be accurate, but it looks like the only possible way forward is Protection with a capital P. On both sides of the Atlantic. Ryan and Trump are not just enemies, they are electorally incompatible. Citizenists cannot afford to lose any votes by embracing libertarians. Sad to say.

    it looks like the only possible way forward is Protection with a capital P. On both sides of the Atlantic. Ryan and Trump are not just enemies, they are electorally incompatible. Citizenists cannot afford to lose any votes by embracing libertarians.

    I don’t follow. Please explain.

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    • Replies: @Inquiring Mind
    It's quite simple. If Mr. Trump is to spend down all of his political capital, should it be on the Wall and the seven-country travel ban? Or on the "repeal" of O-Care and "tax reform"?

    As for the voters who put Mr. Trump over the top in Pennsylvania, Ohio, Michigan and Wisconsin, are O-Care repeal (and replace, I guess) and tax reform such appealing issues?

    What Paul Ryan (wonkish neo-Libertarian) and the Freedom Caucus (knee-jerk Libertarian) don't get is that there are a lot of people in the Trump Coalition, mainly Democrats before the Democratic Party ran off the rails into bathroom equity, normalizing the assault of police officers, putting people out of work for environmental purity, and driving wages down by not enforcing existing immigration law.

    There are many Libertarians who have come around to the Trumpian positions on loos, LEOs, loons, and losers. But they just don't get Trump's supporters who are not "in" to the classic Libertarian agenda. The notion of governing coalitions and intra-coalition compromise is "woosh" over the heads of the Libertarian commentariat. Many are engaged in running squabbles with their Trumpist followers.

    It's like Egypt and Saudi apparently not getting along.
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  110. @Art Deco
    Which is a perfectly legitimate position for anyone to take.

    No it isn't. Hamas and Hezbollah are criminal organizations who attack everything the West stands for. Hezbollah's constituency has no legitimate beef with Israel at all, but that has not in the past dissuaded Hezbollah from engaging in pointless cross-border violence.

    Hamas and Hezbollah are criminal organizations who attack everything the West stands for. Hezbollah’s constituency has no legitimate beef with Israel at all, but that has not in the past dissuaded Hezbollah from engaging in pointless cross-border violence.

    Au contraire! Hezbollah defends their constituency against the Zio-state’s cross-border violence. How many times has Israel invaded Lebanon? Three times already? And then how many times has Hezbollah invaded Israel? By my count, zero.

    As far as being a “criminal organization” is concerned, Hezbollah’s only crime is that they stand in the way of ‘Greater Israel’. Come to think of it, that’s Hamas’ and Syria’s only crime too.

    But far be it from me to let logic get in the way of Zionism.

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    • Replies: @AnotherDad

    Au contraire! Hezbollah defends their constituency against the Zio-state’s cross-border violence. How many times has Israel invaded Lebanon? Three times already? And then how many times has Hezbollah invaded Israel? By my count, zero.
     
    Yep, they are all bashing each other's heads in over their various patches of dirt. The human norm.

    But why should Westerners be concerned much less involved?

    If i was Irish--real Irish not just genetically--i'd be way more concerned about having Africans parking themselves in my frontyard (Dublin). The middle eastern tribes are going to squawk and fight--you aren't going to stop them--but keeping the garbage out of of your own patch is job #1.
    , @Art Deco
    Au contraire! Hezbollah defends their constituency against the Zio-state’s cross-border violence.

    They do nothing of the kind. They provoke reprisals. They do this because it pleases them, not because it serves any material end.


    How many times has Israel invaded Lebanon? Three times already? And then how many times has Hezbollah invaded Israel? By my count, zero.

    Lebanon was in an anarchic state from 1975 to 1990 and the PLO took advantage of this to stage raids on Israel. Much of Lebanon was at the time occupied by two external forces: PLO brigands who were recruited out of the UNRWA camps and the Syrian military (who were present in Lebanon for 29 years). Hezbollah did not exist at the time of Operation Litani, so they weren't in the business of defending Shi'ites or anyone else. They were not consequential in 1982 (at which time the principal Shi'ite militia was al-Amal, which had scant presence in southern Lebanon). Israel and Hezbollah came to blows in 2006 because Hezbollah wanted to mix it up. Israel has not been at war with the Lebanese state since 1949. It has been at war with paramilitaries exploiting Lebanon as a staging ground.



    As far as being a “criminal organization” is concerned, Hezbollah’s only crime is that they stand in the way of ‘Greater Israel’.

    Only in your addled head. Israel has never had any territorial claims on Lebanese territory nor sought to durably occupy Lebanese territory. Their interest has been in security problems emanating from Lebanese territory.



    Come to think of it, that’s Hamas’ and Syria’s only crime too.

    Again, another fantasy. Syria has been in a state of war with Israel since 1948. That was their choice and maintaining that state of war has been their choice, as has sponsoring various and sundry organizations of brigands and their 29 year long rape of Lebanon. The country has been horribly misgoverned since 1963. Yes, normal people see the Assad mafia for what they are.

    Hamas is headquartered in Gaza, a welfare dump nobody wants. Hard to see how they're resisting a 'Greater Israel' that does not exist. Israel exists, of course, a source of unending bother to a caucus on these boards. Hamas gets its jollies digging tunnels under the border fence and launching artillery barrages against Jewish towns, so every few years Israel knocks out their military equipment and supply dumps, about which they and their advocates whine relentlessly. It's lot simpler to attempt something constructive and leave the burgesses of Sderot alone, but that's not what they wish to do.
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  111. @eah
    https://twitter.com/SlFrexit/status/873221929456607233

    that’s because of the refugee crisis. otherwise you can see how in the beggining they reduced the numbers of foreigners coming.
    also few people are leaving

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  112. @gda
    Being over-represented by a factor of 2+ represents "a huge room for improvement"?

    Its a massive underrepresentation of the number of unworthy men in the West. Should be at least 40%, possibly more.

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  113. @Lot

    perhaps because he was seen as anti-Israel
     
    It isn't a matter of how he is seen, it is the reality. He's a conventional anti-white Muslim Supremacist. He strongly favors Hamas and Hezbollah over Israel.

    English Jews really hate Corbyn. One poll showed they were planning on voting for Conservatives over Labour by a a 77 to 13 margin.

    http://www.timesofisrael.com/britains-jews-want-to-see-may-in-june-but-will-corbyn-rain-on-her-parade/

    The Tories' junior coalition partner, the Protestant Northern Irish Democratic Unionist Party, is even more philosemitic than the Conservatives.

    http://www.jpost.com/International/Ian-Paisley-launches-Northern-Ireland-Friends-of-Israel

    Conversely, the IRA, which has long been supported by Corbyn, is strongly pro-Arab.

    Depressing that any mind share in Western elections is wasted on Israel and all this other tribal quibbling.

    The great socio-political achievement in the West was precisely suppressing tribalism and creating nations. This is what enabled modernity. The East-Asians also did this effectively–though the Chinese lag at the “trust at scale” benefit. (The third great civilization–India–took a different–pretty hideous–approach.) Moderns often aren’t aware how critical this transition was, but if you look at the societies unable to do it and still mired in tribalism–the Arab world, Africa–and their incompetence at launching modern states and making decent societies, you get a clue.

    That we’re continual enmeshed in the drama of the one tribe that refused to be part of the new nations but clung to its tribalism is a shame.

    Then on top we’ve allow this anti-national, minoritarian cancer to grow and grow. And we’re regressing from nationalism/modernity back to tribalism/primitivism and losing our great nations in the deal. Shameful and pathetic.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    Was it, though? Until at least the Civil War, the United States was heavily defined by state lines, loyalties and identities. Did this specifically and vastly impede the States? From at least some perspectives, this seemed healthier than the vast federalism that followed.

    If nothing else, vast federalisms are costly. Its notable that historical governments had by our standards, extraordinarily light tax burdens, but with every increase in scale, the magnitude of civil servants and support increases. Its a fat that feeds itself, and grows like cancer.

    We have entire departments dedicated to anti-smoking ads. Is that really all that needed, especially nowadays?

    , @Opinionator
    What are the "new nations"?
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  114. @Whiskey
    Pro-Muslim is objectively anti-White. There is no other way around it. You lot have to decide if you hate Jews more than you want White people and their culture to survive. Just look at the Yazidi, Egyptian Copts, and others to see what is is in store for Whites under Muslim rule. Fancy living in Algeria?

    Corbyn is insane, in that Muslims are directly the biggest threat to Europe in both culture and demographics (Africans a close second). However he is very BAD for Whites (and Israel, no place is Whiter than Israel and Israel is hate hate hated by the Third BECAUSE IT IS WHITE). [You don't see HATE HATE HATE for say, Burma for ethnically cleansing its Muslims out of the country, or Thailand. Non-Whites will always stick together to hate hate hate Whitey.

    The Irish Republic is also insane, or rather pozzed, by its women, the beautiful Vogue Williams being the exception. Most of this Pro-Muslim stuff is done by fatties, ugly old barren cat ladies, and the like hoping for some hot Muslim houseboy action. The female equivalent of those disgusting dudes who rush over to Thailand for underage hookers. You can just check out Heartiste's post on that matter, with pic after pic of "Refugees Welcome" ladies who have not had sex in years.

    Like it or not, this election was a referendum on immediate total surrender or slow motion surrender and immediate surrender won. Brexit is dead in the water as are any limits on refugees or Muslim aggression. But hey, aging cat ladies and fatties got their Jihad-y Muslims to "welcome." Reminds of how Scott Peterson got tons of love letters after he was imprisoned for killing his wife.

    [Israel will in the end look after itself -- that's what its nukes are for, unless it too is so pozzed with its women that it simply surrenders which significant portions want. Recall that women don't run the risk that men do under conquerors. A pretty woman can always be Sultana.]

    I think the only consistent thing about women is that they vote for what seems to be caring and they vote for what other women vote for(women constitute a bloc far more than men). I’ve read that this supposedly results in better hedge fund management, but it seems dubious that this is the best strategy for governance.

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    • Replies: @Opinionator
    What's the argument for why it would give rise to better hedge fund management.
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  115. @Lot

    He prevents a real credible anti-Israel Labour leader from becoming PM-oh I don’t know, let’s call this person ‘Sadiq Khan’
     
    There is no way the 93% white British electorate is going to vote in a Pakistani Muslim as PM. Totally aside from the issues, it would would be a symbolic humiliation of the WWC, who are still the core of Labour support.

    I think you’re underestimating the degree of self-loathing with which the modern Westerner regards himself and his civilization.

    Read More
    • Replies: @anon

    I think you’re underestimating the degree of self-loathing with which the modern Westerner regards himself and his civilization.
     
    not self-loathing - western civilization was deliberately poisoned
    , @Art Deco
    I think you’re underestimating the degree of self-loathing with which the modern Westerner regards himself and his civilization

    See Thomas Sowell and Paul Hollander, but especially Sowell. Progressives tend to be quite vain. It's the mass of people (contemporary and historical) outside their social and professional circles that they despise. I've known some self-loathing Democratic voters, but they are so for purely personal reasons and are not heavily invested in public affairs.
    , @Corvinus
    The modern Westerner regards himself and his civilization as being problematic, but solutions which are attainable. Unfortunately, he and she have to deal with the critics such as yourself who insist there is only but one way to live as a Westerner.
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  116. @AnotherDad
    Depressing that any mind share in Western elections is wasted on Israel and all this other tribal quibbling.

    The great socio-political achievement in the West was precisely suppressing tribalism and creating nations. This is what enabled modernity. The East-Asians also did this effectively--though the Chinese lag at the "trust at scale" benefit. (The third great civilization--India--took a different--pretty hideous--approach.) Moderns often aren't aware how critical this transition was, but if you look at the societies unable to do it and still mired in tribalism--the Arab world, Africa--and their incompetence at launching modern states and making decent societies, you get a clue.

    That we're continual enmeshed in the drama of the one tribe that refused to be part of the new nations but clung to its tribalism is a shame.

    Then on top we've allow this anti-national, minoritarian cancer to grow and grow. And we're regressing from nationalism/modernity back to tribalism/primitivism and losing our great nations in the deal. Shameful and pathetic.

    Was it, though? Until at least the Civil War, the United States was heavily defined by state lines, loyalties and identities. Did this specifically and vastly impede the States? From at least some perspectives, this seemed healthier than the vast federalism that followed.

    If nothing else, vast federalisms are costly. Its notable that historical governments had by our standards, extraordinarily light tax burdens, but with every increase in scale, the magnitude of civil servants and support increases. Its a fat that feeds itself, and grows like cancer.

    We have entire departments dedicated to anti-smoking ads. Is that really all that needed, especially nowadays?

    Read More
    • Replies: @AnotherDad
    "Was it, though?

    Uh, yeah. Absolutely. The suppression of tribalism is precisely what allowed nation states to grow, eventually allowed things like social trust, "rule of law", secure property rights, representative government.

    If anyone doesn't understand the benefit of defeating tribalism to modern civilization, I really don't know what to say.


    "Until at least the Civil War, the United States was heavily defined by state lines, loyalties and identities."

    The US was obviously somewhat more of an ethnic conglomeration than the typical--smaller, tighter--European nation--"England" or "France" or much later "Germany". But outside of blacks not wildly so. White America wasn't a whole more diverse than the UK after the second Act of Union in 1800 bringing in Ireland. These folks almost all spoke English and most were Protestants. 99% were Christians from radical protestants to Catholics. The incoming Catholic minority--like my Irish ancestors--posed a bit of an integration problem. But generally white America as a whole was a group that was "post-tribal", could inter-marry at will and carried some sort of common "American" identity along with their regional ones.

    ~
    But the key point i'm arguing here is not the specifics of how "non-tribal" a particular nation state was/is. For example Canada--another conglomerate--was left with two separate tribal identities but still managed to function pretty well under the dominance of one.

    Rather the point is that defeating tribalism is the essential for civilized life. It's what allowed modern nation states, "rule of law" beyond tribal negotiation/bickering/warfare, trust and commerce enterprises at some sort of reasonable scale, protection of property rights again dependent on more than your tribes power/influence and eventually representative government and explicit civil rights.

    Yes, we haven't found some fool-proof check on state power. (The modern breaching of the US Constitution--awful. Generally voting rights and the empowerment of women has been bad for containing state power as it starts doing "nurturing" a task it has no business being involved in.) But the state power we have in civilized nations is generally better than under tribalism where the state bears no responsibility to you--think say Ottoman Empire--and there's little constraint of the state at all save your tribe being influential enough for the state to mostly leave you alone.
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  117. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @Anonymous
    Of course, who can ever forget the Reverend Dr. Paisley - he was also a Member of the 'European Parliament' as well as being a Westminster MP, ferociously denouncing Pope John Paul II as the Anti-Christ, from the floor of the Strasbourg Parliament whilst the reigning Pontiff was addressing the 'parliament'?

    Strangely enough - a real right royal European stew for you Yanks - a descendant and heir of the last Habsburg Emperor - devout Catholic he - personally tackled the Rev. Dr. Paisley on this outburst.

    Also, who could forget that occasion in which the Rev. Paisley – absolutely incensed by Margaret Thatcher’s signing of the ‘Anglo-Irish’ accord, used his position in the pulpit to solemnly bring down a curse in the name of the Almighty on to Mrs Thatcher?

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  118. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @Jonathan Mason
    Being opposed to a lot of what Israel does as a matter of foreign policy has nothing to do with being antisemitic.

    Corbyn, it should be noted, is a fluent speaker of Spanish who raised a family with a South American wife.

    After university he spent a couple of years working for Voluntary Service Overseas in Jamaica, which is a kind of UK equivalent to the Peace Corps. I am sure he had a good time imbibing the local culture of the late 60's.

    He’s been married to two Latin American ladies in succession.
    This apart from a marriage to an Englishwoman, and a passionate fling with one Diane Abbott, known affectionately around these parts as the ‘Hackney Hippo’.

    The bearded old goat resembles more and more another passionate unconventional socialist of that peculiar ‘gentle, bearded’ school, namely DH Lawrence, ‘phallic consciousness’ and all.
    Or Keir Hardie. Whatever takes your fancy.

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  119. Gabriel M says:
    @Seamus Padraig

    I’ve often thought whether it wouldn’t have been wise on the part of South Africa, Rhodesia, and the old South to have set aside some money to pay for vacations and show people around the place. Might have bought them a few decades.
     
    Or maybe they should've just spent more money on lobbying in Washington.

    Why not both?

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  120. Gabriel M says:
    @Jonathan Mason
    Being opposed to a lot of what Israel does as a matter of foreign policy has nothing to do with being antisemitic.

    Corbyn, it should be noted, is a fluent speaker of Spanish who raised a family with a South American wife.

    After university he spent a couple of years working for Voluntary Service Overseas in Jamaica, which is a kind of UK equivalent to the Peace Corps. I am sure he had a good time imbibing the local culture of the late 60's.

    Corbyn, it should be noted, is a fluent speaker of Spanish who raised a family with a South American wife.

    Umm, why should it be noted?

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  121. @anon
    1) it should be around 2% not 7%

    and

    2) there are far more when you add all the closeted ones - especially on the conservative side

    this vast over-representation is a function of how politicians are filtered on PC by the money men - the homosexual ones share an interest in supporting PC whether publicly or privately

    the overwhelming disproportion of homosexual politicians supporting PC for their own interests is partly why they say nothing about the media's attempt to normalize pedophilia through their promotion of pre-pubescent transgender

    SmoothieX12 is Russian. As far as the Russians are concerned, until a man beats other men with sticks while laughing off steaming temperatures in the banya and actually tries to prove himself a man, he isn’t. Masculinity in the West is hilariously weaksauce in comparison.

    The attitude does bring its own set of problems, but unlike the West, they haven’t gotten to the point that about about “manspreading” and legislating it to be illegal.

    We live in a world of clowns, fit only for clowns and jokers.

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    • Replies: @Randal
    You mean Russian men don't feel the need to preface their announcements with a preference as to pronoun?

    "I’m George Bridges, I use he/him pronouns."
    , @anon
    noted
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  122. @Seamus Padraig

    Hamas and Hezbollah are criminal organizations who attack everything the West stands for. Hezbollah’s constituency has no legitimate beef with Israel at all, but that has not in the past dissuaded Hezbollah from engaging in pointless cross-border violence.
     
    Au contraire! Hezbollah defends their constituency against the Zio-state's cross-border violence. How many times has Israel invaded Lebanon? Three times already? And then how many times has Hezbollah invaded Israel? By my count, zero.

    As far as being a "criminal organization" is concerned, Hezbollah's only crime is that they stand in the way of 'Greater Israel'. Come to think of it, that's Hamas' and Syria's only crime too.

    But far be it from me to let logic get in the way of Zionism.

    Au contraire! Hezbollah defends their constituency against the Zio-state’s cross-border violence. How many times has Israel invaded Lebanon? Three times already? And then how many times has Hezbollah invaded Israel? By my count, zero.

    Yep, they are all bashing each other’s heads in over their various patches of dirt. The human norm.

    But why should Westerners be concerned much less involved?

    If i was Irish–real Irish not just genetically–i’d be way more concerned about having Africans parking themselves in my frontyard (Dublin). The middle eastern tribes are going to squawk and fight–you aren’t going to stop them–but keeping the garbage out of of your own patch is job #1.

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    • Agree: Dan Hayes
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  123. @reiner Tor
    I bet you Lesbians have the easiest careers of all: they have higher than female drives and ambitions, coupled with double diversity Pokémon points (as women and LGBT).

    But M-F transexuals are beginning to pose a challenge. They have even more oppression points + male competitiveness.

    The UK National Union of Students Womens’ Officer is a hairy bloke in a dress.

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  124. Pledging to restore free university education was very effective at getting the yoof to get out of bed and vote.

    It was free when I went, but only available to 10% of the population.

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    • Replies: @jim jones
    I had free education reading Physics at Durham University, my belief is that all the money went to Social Services and Asylum Seekers instead of to Education.
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  125. Randal says:
    @Art Deco
    No different from blacks insisting the world is racist.

    No it isn't. See Caroline Glick's account of her most recent trip to the UK (for a debate at Oxford). Anti-semitism is quite normal among fancy people in Britain.

    Antisemitism isn’t normal (in the sense you use the term, meaning commonplace). Opposition to Israel, which is almost invariably misunderstood or misrepresented as antisemitism by jews and their sympathisers, is fairly commonplace.

    A recognition of the fundamental truth that jewish people are, like muslims, a foreign group tending to external patriotic and cultural loyalties is also not unknown and similarly misrepresented, though increasingly suppressed by the establishment and even by the state.

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    • Replies: @Art Deco
    Antisemitism isn’t normal (in the sense you use the term, meaning commonplace).

    Among ordinary people? No. Among people who publish for a living and those in their social circles, without a doubt.


    Opposition to Israel, which is almost invariably misunderstood or misrepresented as antisemitism by jews and their sympathisers, is fairly commonplace.

    It's a country with the population of Austria and a domestic product about that of Denmark. Its military is well provisioned, but no better than Australia's, about which no one's complaining.

    It currently occupies land outside the 1949 armistice lines, which bothers people a great deal. That Israel has made five (unsuccessful) attempts to either institute local government or off-load these territories is something those bothered elect to ignore. That Israel alsoo has withdrawn it's troops from settlements where 80% of the Arab population lives is also ignored by those bothered.

    It has conflicts with various Arab paramilitary forces, which is not surprising inasmuch as the Arab paramilitaries and various free-range characters wish to kill Jews. That Jews take steps meant to prevent Arab paramilitaries from killing them is regarded with gorge-rising disgust by certain parties (among them British journalists).




    A recognition of the fundamental truth that jewish people are, like muslims, a foreign group tending to external patriotic and cultural loyalties is also not unknown and similarly misrepresented, though increasingly suppressed by the establishment and even by the state.


    There are 300,000 Jews in Britain who aren't causing any trouble at all. Come to think of it, American Jews aren't causing trouble in any systematic way, either. If there's nothing going on though, you can always work yourself into a lather meditating on the ownership of MGM and CBS ca. 1945, or perhaps on the membership of the executive corps of Lehman Brothers. Oh, and Wm. Kristol edits a magazine. And Douglas Feith took two courses from Leo Strauss. And they can buy and sell the Tennessee legislature.
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  126. Randal says:
    @Art Deco
    Which is a perfectly legitimate position for anyone to take.

    No it isn't. Hamas and Hezbollah are criminal organizations who attack everything the West stands for. Hezbollah's constituency has no legitimate beef with Israel at all, but that has not in the past dissuaded Hezbollah from engaging in pointless cross-border violence.

    Hamas and Hezbollah are criminal organizations who attack everything the West stands for. Hezbollah’s constituency has no legitimate beef with Israel at all, but that has not in the past dissuaded Hezbollah from engaging in pointless cross-border violence.

    LOL! If having your country invaded and occupied doesn’t count as a “legimitate beef” for you then you are not rational on the topic.

    As for Hamas and Hezbollah, the honest assessment is that they are legitimate popular national defence organisations for their respective peoples, that have arisen in response to threats to their people. You can then debate their merits vis a vis their Israeli enemies all you like, but pretending they are enemies of any other country other than to the extent that country supports their own enemy is either dishonest or ignorant, albeit understandable for Israeli partisans.

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    • Replies: @Art Deco
    LOL! If having your country invaded and occupied doesn’t count as a “legimitate beef” for you then you are not rational on the topic.

    Hezbollah do not own Lebanon, Hezbollah was not a consequential political force at the time Israel entered Lebanon in 1982, Lebanon was in an anarchic state in 1982 and south Lebanon was largely occupied by the PLO, and Israel had not had troops in Lebanon for more than 20 years when Hezbollah decided they wanted to rumble.


    As for Hamas and Hezbollah, the honest assessment is that they are legitimate popular national defence organisations for their respective peoples,

    And you fancy that's a point in favor of 'their people'.



    that have arisen in response to threats to their people.

    Actually, Hezbollah was at its inception a project of the Iranian government. Israel's never been a 'threat' to Lebanese shi'ites unless they're raiding across the border (or perhaps killing Israel's allies). The authentic rivals to Lebanon's shi'ites are to be found in their own country's confessional and factional mosaic.

    As for Hamas, if they wish to live a quiet life, they can quit with the artillery barrages and negotiate a deal with their Jewish neighbors. The latter is something they refuse to do. Well, there are benefits and costs to every course of action you take.



    You can then debate their merits vis a vis their Israeli enemies all you like, but pretending they are enemies of any other country other than to the extent that country supports their own enemy is either dishonest or ignorant, albeit understandable for Israeli partisans.

    They're pretty much enemies of everyone, and for no very good reason. They do not bother to hide it.

    As for you, there's who you fancy you are, and who you actually are.
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  127. anon says: • Disclaimer
    @Anonym
    The anti-white lyrics of Roger Waters that pathologized the reaction to the poz probably have something to do with the current state of the UK.

    that generation knocked the floor out of social conservatism not understanding the abyss that lies underneath

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    • Replies: @Anonym
    Absolutely.

    https://youtu.be/0bDY0DfEjmo

    I hope the fancy house was worth it for collaborating on this, Gilmour.
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  128. anon says: • Disclaimer
    @Lurker
    The left are very pleased with themselves over the age distribution and obviously it's saying something. But eventually 18 yos become 28 yos and so on. And amazingly their voting patterns change with age. This seems to come as a surprise at every election.

    the big difference this time is
    - disproportionately immigrant descent
    - they actually voted which they mostly didn’t in the past

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  129. @Daniel Chieh
    Was it, though? Until at least the Civil War, the United States was heavily defined by state lines, loyalties and identities. Did this specifically and vastly impede the States? From at least some perspectives, this seemed healthier than the vast federalism that followed.

    If nothing else, vast federalisms are costly. Its notable that historical governments had by our standards, extraordinarily light tax burdens, but with every increase in scale, the magnitude of civil servants and support increases. Its a fat that feeds itself, and grows like cancer.

    We have entire departments dedicated to anti-smoking ads. Is that really all that needed, especially nowadays?

    “Was it, though?

    Uh, yeah. Absolutely. The suppression of tribalism is precisely what allowed nation states to grow, eventually allowed things like social trust, “rule of law”, secure property rights, representative government.

    If anyone doesn’t understand the benefit of defeating tribalism to modern civilization, I really don’t know what to say.

    “Until at least the Civil War, the United States was heavily defined by state lines, loyalties and identities.”

    The US was obviously somewhat more of an ethnic conglomeration than the typical–smaller, tighter–European nation–”England” or “France” or much later “Germany”. But outside of blacks not wildly so. White America wasn’t a whole more diverse than the UK after the second Act of Union in 1800 bringing in Ireland. These folks almost all spoke English and most were Protestants. 99% were Christians from radical protestants to Catholics. The incoming Catholic minority–like my Irish ancestors–posed a bit of an integration problem. But generally white America as a whole was a group that was “post-tribal”, could inter-marry at will and carried some sort of common “American” identity along with their regional ones.

    ~
    But the key point i’m arguing here is not the specifics of how “non-tribal” a particular nation state was/is. For example Canada–another conglomerate–was left with two separate tribal identities but still managed to function pretty well under the dominance of one.

    Rather the point is that defeating tribalism is the essential for civilized life. It’s what allowed modern nation states, “rule of law” beyond tribal negotiation/bickering/warfare, trust and commerce enterprises at some sort of reasonable scale, protection of property rights again dependent on more than your tribes power/influence and eventually representative government and explicit civil rights.

    Yes, we haven’t found some fool-proof check on state power. (The modern breaching of the US Constitution–awful. Generally voting rights and the empowerment of women has been bad for containing state power as it starts doing “nurturing” a task it has no business being involved in.) But the state power we have in civilized nations is generally better than under tribalism where the state bears no responsibility to you–think say Ottoman Empire–and there’s little constraint of the state at all save your tribe being influential enough for the state to mostly leave you alone.

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  130. Randal says:
    @Daniel Chieh
    SmoothieX12 is Russian. As far as the Russians are concerned, until a man beats other men with sticks while laughing off steaming temperatures in the banya and actually tries to prove himself a man, he isn't. Masculinity in the West is hilariously weaksauce in comparison.

    The attitude does bring its own set of problems, but unlike the West, they haven't gotten to the point that about about "manspreading" and legislating it to be illegal.

    We live in a world of clowns, fit only for clowns and jokers.

    You mean Russian men don’t feel the need to preface their announcements with a preference as to pronoun?

    I’m George Bridges, I use he/him pronouns.

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    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    She is experiencing gender confusion and is using the wrong pronouns ;)
    , @Charlie_U
    Imagine having to learn how to decline all your new zher pronouns correctly across the 6 Russian cases.

    That would probably be a real b**lache.
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  131. anon says: • Disclaimer
    @Randal

    The age gap was immense, with Tories getting 59% of those over 65 and only 18% of those under 25.
     
    Assuming (as experience suggests it is not unreasonable to do) that people's opinions change as they grow older and more experienced, that would seem a good place to be, given the demographic forecasts. According to the UK ONS the projected share of the population aged 60+ is forecast to increase from 14.9% in 2014 to 21.9% in 2039, and that will combine with the known increase in likelihood of voting with age.

    That might at least go some way to reducing the (deliberately) inbuilt bias towards Labour from ongoing mass immigration and demographic change by differential birth rates.

    Difficult to have much sympathy with the Tories on that score, since they've been in power now for seven years and have done nothing to cut the colossal rates of mass immigration initiated by Labour in 1997, or even to try to reduce the all pervasive political censorship and manipulation of opinion that suppresses resistance to it. Serving their business masters by maintaining the supply of cheap labour to undercut wages was more important to them than considering the long term future of the nation or even of their own party.

    Assuming (as experience suggests it is not unreasonable to do) that people’s opinions change as they grow older and more experienced, that would seem a good place to be, given the demographic forecasts.

    no and yes

    the immigrant percentage among the young is huge, growing and concentrated – all the big cities will have gone before long

    on the other hand as a result of the above the white SJW youth from the shrinking number of affluent white areas will increasingly be forced to face the very bleak future their SJW teachers created for them

    there will be a time lag between the first and second

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    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Another point is that the indigenous, ethnic English are, literally, a dying race.
    There is no doubt that deaths surpass births by a surprising degree amongst the English. The effect is masked in the rather bland statistics due to the magnitude of immigration and birth rate of the immigrant population.
    A big proportion of non replaced die-off must be Conservative voters.
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  132. Randal says:
    @Anonymous
    My guess is the leftie youth of the past were very oikophobic: anti-British, anti-Empire, anti-monarchy, anti-patriotism, derisive of national symbols -- presumably unlike Americans or Canadians (or French?) who cloak themselves in the flag as they agitate for cultural and demographic destruction by the Third World.

    But has the latest crop discovered a love of "British values" now that they need a rhetorical point to get Brits to accept hostile immigrants as countrymen? -- when such values are mass immigration, historical national self-flagellation, lower class hatred, moral degeneracy and, ideally, said mass immigrants leveraging shared hatred of Empire and lip service to said degeneracy to further their political entryism in lieu of compliant working classes?

    But has the latest crop discovered a love of “British values”

    The new “British values” beloved of “Conservative”, Labour and LibDem politicians – meaning ideas and attitudes that would have been regarded by the vast majority of our ancestors as laughable at best, and most likely as morally abhorrent or insane.

    I don’t think the Labour-voting youth would much use the term, but it’s clearly mostly well indoctrinated in modern “British values”.

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  133. anon says: • Disclaimer
    @Charles Pewitt
    The Tories have kept the mass immigration floodgates open. The mass immigration into England started in the late 1940s, picked up considerably in the 50s and 60s and exploded after Tony Blair's treasonous 1997 open borders immigration policy went into effect.

    The Tories have very little credibility as an oppostion force to counter the mass immigration proclivities of Labour. Prime Minister May was Home Secretary for 6 years and the net migration intake figures were something like 300, 000 a year. England is now one of the most densely populated parts of Europe.

    Demography and debt are leading to a very volatile political atmosphere in England. Civil war will be the most likely outcome. The Bank of England has engaged in the most radical bout of monetary policy in its existence. England's disastrous mass immigration policy has kept the wage inflation that would ordinarily occur during bouts of monetary extremism at bay. The Bank of England has used mass immigration policy to mask the wage inflation that would've happened under normal rates of immigration.

    Sailer's concept of Miami operating as a money laundering center in the 1980s can be used to describe what the City of London has done for globalized plutocrats.

    Sailer’s concept of Miami operating as a money laundering center in the 1980s can be used to describe what the City of London has done for globalized plutocrats.

    yes – adult Leftists are maybe 1/3 of the problem but the other 2/3 is the parasitic banking mafia (partly because they finance those parts of leftism which serve their interests e.g. identity politics)

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  134. Abe says: • Website
    @Gabriel M
    Thom Yorke doesn't need the money. The Pixies did need the money, so that probably explains why they broke the boycott, but Radiohead don't. The reason they won't join in his because the guitarist is married to an Israeli lass and hence knows enough to know that the SJW narrative is untrue. (Of course, he is not thoughtful enough to ask whether maybe the narrative is also untrue about things he does not know about, but every so often this does happen). As a general rule, the SJW/Svigor narrative is so over the top that simply being minimally acquainted with the facts on the ground inoculates you against it.

    I've often thought whether it wouldn't have been wise on the part of South Africa, Rhodesia, and the old South to have set aside some money to pay for vacations and show people around the place. Might have bought them a few decades.

    The reason they won’t join in his because the guitarist is married to an Israeli lass

    That’s some serious deep cover!

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    • Replies: @Abe

    The reason they won’t join in his because the guitarist is married to an Israeli lass
     
    Kidding aside, thanks, that's interesting to know. In the US while there is all sorts of BDS-craziness on campus, fact remains that no prominent entertainer, celebrity, or businessperson touches it with a ten foot pole. In Europe it was different, and you had Vanessa (Lynn?) Redgrave denouncing Israel from the POzcar podium, and white leftist radicals (Baader Meinhof) shocktrooping for Palestinian terrorist groups. I think one of the big changes is the huge collapse in European high-cultural cachet at the end of the '90's. Wood Allen's career during its prime was an autodidact's take on European high cinema, art, philosophy, psychology, etc. It was yuckster-ish and smart-alecky on its surface, but at its core deeply reverent and almost despairing in how Allen seemed to realize that his true role as an artist was as popularizer of the European masters by providing Borscht Belt-style color commentary to their towering achievements (see his "parody" of SEVENTH SEAL).

    Thanks to the rise of the Internet, America winning the Cold War, political correctness's Europhobia, and the general dumbing down of our culture, educated younger Americans don't have nearly the same Paris Envy as their forebears, and so are freer to buck or ignore European leftist obsessions. Indeed had Her Majesty won, I'm sure the Megaphone would have spent the next 8+ years eulogizing Her unstoppable Grand Coalition of the Fringes comprised of angry single women, LGBT'ers, and Jews and Muslims united in loving disdain of native-born deplorables so-let's-just-drop-this-whole-Israel-distraction, and that it would have made an easy voyage to Cool Britannia, and then used that as a springboard to the rest of the Continent.

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  135. @Lot

    perhaps because he was seen as anti-Israel
     
    It isn't a matter of how he is seen, it is the reality. He's a conventional anti-white Muslim Supremacist. He strongly favors Hamas and Hezbollah over Israel.

    English Jews really hate Corbyn. One poll showed they were planning on voting for Conservatives over Labour by a a 77 to 13 margin.

    http://www.timesofisrael.com/britains-jews-want-to-see-may-in-june-but-will-corbyn-rain-on-her-parade/

    The Tories' junior coalition partner, the Protestant Northern Irish Democratic Unionist Party, is even more philosemitic than the Conservatives.

    http://www.jpost.com/International/Ian-Paisley-launches-Northern-Ireland-Friends-of-Israel

    Conversely, the IRA, which has long been supported by Corbyn, is strongly pro-Arab.

    Northern Ireland prods are traditionally philosemitic. See e.g. N.I. prod novelist Sam Keery’s 1995 novel Lilliburlero, esp. Chapter Six.

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    • Replies: @Simon in London
    Yes, and Irish Republican identification with the Palestinians just made us moreso.

    Funny thing, I know an Ulster Catholic Unionist policeman (once tipped to lead the RUC/PSNI, pr even the Met) who was always pretty anti-Semitic, but he combined it with a love of Israel. I think it's very common for us Prods to see the Zionist Entity, like apartheid South Africa, as a fellow Crusader State hacking out civilisation from the barbarian wilderness. Israelis seem to like us too, but sadly British right-liberal Zionist Jews like Melanie Phillips tend not to return our affections. Their crusader state = good, our crusader state = bad.
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  136. anon says: • Disclaimer
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    • Replies: @Johan Schmidt
    At first I was like:

    Race does not stand up scientifically, period. To begin with, if race categories were meant primarily to capture differences in genetics, they are doing an abysmal job.
     
    but then I was like:

    The very differences in genetics between ancestral groups make comparisons across groups impossible.
     
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  137. anon says: • Disclaimer
    @rw95
    So much for that whole "the youth support nationalism" thing.

    So much for that whole “the youth support nationalism” thing.

    c. 50% of white youth in France

    c. 10% in England

    cultural Marxists were chased out of continental Europe by Hitler into the Anglosphere where they poisoned the education system

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    • Replies: @rw95
    You know that the 40% of the youth vote that Le Pen received was 40% of the youth WHO BOTHERED TO SHOW UP AND VOTE, and is hardly representative of the French youth as a whole, right?
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  138. Art Deco says:
    @Mr. Anon

    It’s doubtful anyone at the New York Times gives a rip about Israel....
     
    Sure, David Brooks, Thomas Friedman, Nicholas Kristof, Roger Cohen.................they care nothing at all about Israel. Israel is a matter of complete indifference to the staff of the New York Times.

    Do you even read what you write? Does anybody?

    Ross Douthat writes for the New York Times, ergo what? The Sulzbergers will be attending the Tridentine Mass?

    None of the people you list hand out any assignments, produce any original reporting, greenlight any stories, determine one line-item of the editorial budget, or contribute one word to the editorial policy or editorial line of the paper. They merely give an indication of what the Sulzberger’s fancy is the perimeter of permissible public discussion.

    A couple of years back, someone did a study of who Times employees follow on Twitter. The answer was pretty much that they follow people who resemble Times employees. Only 10% were following Ross Douthat. He’s an ornament.

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  139. anon says: • Disclaimer
    @The Anti-Gnostic
    I think you're underestimating the degree of self-loathing with which the modern Westerner regards himself and his civilization.

    I think you’re underestimating the degree of self-loathing with which the modern Westerner regards himself and his civilization.

    not self-loathing – western civilization was deliberately poisoned

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  140. anon says: • Disclaimer
    @Daniel Chieh
    SmoothieX12 is Russian. As far as the Russians are concerned, until a man beats other men with sticks while laughing off steaming temperatures in the banya and actually tries to prove himself a man, he isn't. Masculinity in the West is hilariously weaksauce in comparison.

    The attitude does bring its own set of problems, but unlike the West, they haven't gotten to the point that about about "manspreading" and legislating it to be illegal.

    We live in a world of clowns, fit only for clowns and jokers.

    noted

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  141. @anon
    1) it should be around 2% not 7%

    and

    2) there are far more when you add all the closeted ones - especially on the conservative side

    this vast over-representation is a function of how politicians are filtered on PC by the money men - the homosexual ones share an interest in supporting PC whether publicly or privately

    the overwhelming disproportion of homosexual politicians supporting PC for their own interests is partly why they say nothing about the media's attempt to normalize pedophilia through their promotion of pre-pubescent transgender

    the media’s attempt to normalize pedophilia through their promotion of pre-pubescent transgender

    But, but.. it is such a “fine” tradition of European intellectual class–to fantasize, be it to Nabokov’s Lolita, or signing French letter for abolition of the age of consent. It is so “intellectual” and so “sophisticated”. Per media–I can not say what percentage is there, but, I suspect, very many of those media-types are amoral low-life creatures. Many of them do look like such, literally.

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  142. @Anonymous
    Due to Britain's wonderful first-past-the-post individual constituency parliamentary voting system what we have now is the Democratic Unionist Party (the DUP) a parochial, sectarian political party which commands a segment of Northern Ireland's, (population 1.7 million, Protestants around 60% of that ), Loyalist population as its sole voting base, effectively having complete and absolute control of the Westminster Parliament and 65 million British subjects.
    Both Tony Blair and the Tories defended the current voting system to the utmost hilt. Blair - characteristically foolishly - refused to reform it when he had the power to do so.

    Anyhow, most non Ulster Britons know very very little about the DUP and its policies other than that it was the Rev. Ian Paisley's mob during the 'troubles' and the more hardcore of the two Unionist parties. Enoch Powell, as it happened resigned from the Conservative Party in disgust over the putative EU, or EEC as it was in those days, and became an Official Unionist Party MP - they, I believe are more genteel and traditionally Tory in outlook.

    The DUP are really old fashioned fundamentalist Scots-Irish Presbyterianism at assembly.
    One good thing to take away is that they have an even dimmer view of what they term 'mohammedism' than they even have of Roman Catholicism, and likely they will try to to limit further Muslim immigration into the United Kingdom they so love.

    After decades of the English spilling so much blood and treasure for the largely thankless task of defending the Loyalists, perhaps just perhaps, they might give back something worthwhile in return.

    “After decades of the English spilling so much blood and treasure for the largely thankless task of defending the Loyalists, perhaps just perhaps, they might give back something worthwhile in return.”

    The English have never intervened in Ulster to protect the Loyalists – not even at the Siege of Derry (where I suspect I had more ancestors among the besiegers than the besieged). Military intervention in 1969 was to protect the Catholics/Nationalists from the Protestants/Unionists. There was no credible military threat to the Stormont government, and it took English/Westminster military intervention to energise the IRA and turn them into a credible killing force, because (for one reason) only British military intervention could give them the cover to embark on a large scale terror campaign without fear of retaliatory ethnic cleansing.

    It’s remotely conceivable that absent any mainland intervention, Charles Haughey’s Republic of Ireland could have militarily mobilised, defeated Stormont and imposed a unified Ireland. But that was a war the Republic certainly did not wish to fight if they could possibly help it – most Irish south of the Nine Counties traditionally see us Northerners as crazy dour violent idiots, best avoided – and that opinion goes for Catholic & Protestant Ulster folk alike.

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    • Replies: @Lurker

    most Irish south of the Nine Counties traditionally see us Northerners as crazy dour violent idiots, best avoided – and that opinion goes for Catholic & Protestant Ulster folk alike.
     
    Anecdote - I work with a woman from Ireland and a guy from NI. Both RC. She is not fond of him and regards him as loud and argumentative - which he is. Though I personally like him and get on well with both of them.
    , @Anonymous
    Growing up in the 1970s, when the murders of British soldiers by the IRA were more or less a daily occurrence - and which caused much grief and anguish in England - there is a widespread feeling in England that the story of Northern Ireland was nothing but one huge sacrifice for England.
    , @Art Deco
    It’s remotely conceivable that absent any mainland intervention, Charles Haughey’s Republic of Ireland could have militarily mobilised, defeated Stormont and imposed a unified Ireland.

    Haughey was not the prime minister in 1969, the more pacific Jack Lynch was. The midpoint of Haughey's tenure was nearly 20 years later. Since Harold Wilson's government sent troops to Ulster, it's more than remotely conceivable that any attempt by the Irish military to impose a solution would have led to them getting their clock cleaned by the British Army.
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  143. @Daniel Chieh
    I think the only consistent thing about women is that they vote for what seems to be caring and they vote for what other women vote for(women constitute a bloc far more than men). I've read that this supposedly results in better hedge fund management, but it seems dubious that this is the best strategy for governance.

    What’s the argument for why it would give rise to better hedge fund management.

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    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    Less risk-taking - apparently men are more likely to change positions for the sake of changing positions, while the more passive methodology of women is overall more successful in a permanent bull market.

    As in most things, male instincts are more suited for a more dangerous world rather than one of permanent prosperity.

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  144. @AnotherDad
    Depressing that any mind share in Western elections is wasted on Israel and all this other tribal quibbling.

    The great socio-political achievement in the West was precisely suppressing tribalism and creating nations. This is what enabled modernity. The East-Asians also did this effectively--though the Chinese lag at the "trust at scale" benefit. (The third great civilization--India--took a different--pretty hideous--approach.) Moderns often aren't aware how critical this transition was, but if you look at the societies unable to do it and still mired in tribalism--the Arab world, Africa--and their incompetence at launching modern states and making decent societies, you get a clue.

    That we're continual enmeshed in the drama of the one tribe that refused to be part of the new nations but clung to its tribalism is a shame.

    Then on top we've allow this anti-national, minoritarian cancer to grow and grow. And we're regressing from nationalism/modernity back to tribalism/primitivism and losing our great nations in the deal. Shameful and pathetic.

    What are the “new nations”?

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  145. Art Deco says:
    @Seamus Padraig

    Hamas and Hezbollah are criminal organizations who attack everything the West stands for. Hezbollah’s constituency has no legitimate beef with Israel at all, but that has not in the past dissuaded Hezbollah from engaging in pointless cross-border violence.
     
    Au contraire! Hezbollah defends their constituency against the Zio-state's cross-border violence. How many times has Israel invaded Lebanon? Three times already? And then how many times has Hezbollah invaded Israel? By my count, zero.

    As far as being a "criminal organization" is concerned, Hezbollah's only crime is that they stand in the way of 'Greater Israel'. Come to think of it, that's Hamas' and Syria's only crime too.

    But far be it from me to let logic get in the way of Zionism.

    Au contraire! Hezbollah defends their constituency against the Zio-state’s cross-border violence.

    They do nothing of the kind. They provoke reprisals. They do this because it pleases them, not because it serves any material end.

    How many times has Israel invaded Lebanon? Three times already? And then how many times has Hezbollah invaded Israel? By my count, zero.

    Lebanon was in an anarchic state from 1975 to 1990 and the PLO took advantage of this to stage raids on Israel. Much of Lebanon was at the time occupied by two external forces: PLO brigands who were recruited out of the UNRWA camps and the Syrian military (who were present in Lebanon for 29 years). Hezbollah did not exist at the time of Operation Litani, so they weren’t in the business of defending Shi’ites or anyone else. They were not consequential in 1982 (at which time the principal Shi’ite militia was al-Amal, which had scant presence in southern Lebanon). Israel and Hezbollah came to blows in 2006 because Hezbollah wanted to mix it up. Israel has not been at war with the Lebanese state since 1949. It has been at war with paramilitaries exploiting Lebanon as a staging ground.

    As far as being a “criminal organization” is concerned, Hezbollah’s only crime is that they stand in the way of ‘Greater Israel’.

    Only in your addled head. Israel has never had any territorial claims on Lebanese territory nor sought to durably occupy Lebanese territory. Their interest has been in security problems emanating from Lebanese territory.

    Come to think of it, that’s Hamas’ and Syria’s only crime too.

    Again, another fantasy. Syria has been in a state of war with Israel since 1948. That was their choice and maintaining that state of war has been their choice, as has sponsoring various and sundry organizations of brigands and their 29 year long rape of Lebanon. The country has been horribly misgoverned since 1963. Yes, normal people see the Assad mafia for what they are.

    Hamas is headquartered in Gaza, a welfare dump nobody wants. Hard to see how they’re resisting a ‘Greater Israel’ that does not exist. Israel exists, of course, a source of unending bother to a caucus on these boards. Hamas gets its jollies digging tunnels under the border fence and launching artillery barrages against Jewish towns, so every few years Israel knocks out their military equipment and supply dumps, about which they and their advocates whine relentlessly. It’s lot simpler to attempt something constructive and leave the burgesses of Sderot alone, but that’s not what they wish to do.

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    • Agree: Johann Ricke
    • Replies: @Simon in London
    "Again, another fantasy. Syria has been in a state of war with Israel since 1948. That was their choice and maintaining that state of war has been their choice"

    If the Assad regime made peace with Israel they would be delegitimised and fall immediately - currently that would mean an Islamic State or Al Qaeda takeover. If Israel thinks that is in their long term best interests they're crazy. Israeli interests AFAICT are best served by being surrounded with strong-man secular Arab dictatorships that keep their people in line and have too much to lose to seek war with Israel. Also the (remote) military threat such dictatorships pose(d) has/had a salutary effect on the Israeli population.

    Choose your enemies carefully.
    , @biz
    Hell yes, much respect for your getting down into the echo gutter to set the facts straight in this place.

    I am amused that some people's Israel derangement is so severe that they will lend their support to anything, no matter how divergent from their own professed values - even apparently to CommieIslamist Corbyn and his shady allies - in an attempt to stick it to Israel.

    , @Blake
    Your zionist propaganda narrative is blatantly an insult to anyone's intelligence. "Israel" has no legal moral or ethical right to exist. Period.

    Hezbollah was founded after the so-called "South Lebanese army", under the nominal leadership of the Lebanese General Lahad, whose purpose was to provide the "Israelis" with a Lebanese force under Israeli control, to subdue the population between the "Israeli" so called “border” & the Litani river & so create a buffer zone between the Zionist entity & Lebanon – in Lebanese territory. That force originally recruited many Shia soldiers, but those soldiers, sickened by Israeli atrocities against their own families, deserted in droves & many joined Amal, the militia of the Shia Lebanese community, in order to defend their own people. Shia leaders in Lebanon announced publicly that, not only would the resistance to the “iron fist” resistance to the Israelis be stepped up but that, if and when the "Israelis" finally withdrew to zionist occupied Palestine, then raids into "Israeli" territory would become a regular feature of Shia resistance. So the Israelis alienated even the Phalange forces which connived openly in its invasion of Lebanon & who were its willing partners in the Sabra & Shatilla Massacres. It turned the Shia people of the south, who were prepared passively to accept the invasion, into enemies as implacable as the Palestinians. When the war was launched in 1982 it was cynically called “Operation Peace in Galilee.” It was supposed to prevent rocket & guerrilla attacks in the Galilee area although in fact no such attacks were taking place , the PLO having strictly adhered to the previously agreed ceasefire. All that war had assured was a greater awareness in the world community of the nature of the Zionist entity & its “grand strategy” of constant expansion and ultimately led to the birth of Hizbollah in 1985.

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  146. Yak-15 says:
    @Whiskey
    Pro-Muslim is objectively anti-White. There is no other way around it. You lot have to decide if you hate Jews more than you want White people and their culture to survive. Just look at the Yazidi, Egyptian Copts, and others to see what is is in store for Whites under Muslim rule. Fancy living in Algeria?

    Corbyn is insane, in that Muslims are directly the biggest threat to Europe in both culture and demographics (Africans a close second). However he is very BAD for Whites (and Israel, no place is Whiter than Israel and Israel is hate hate hated by the Third BECAUSE IT IS WHITE). [You don't see HATE HATE HATE for say, Burma for ethnically cleansing its Muslims out of the country, or Thailand. Non-Whites will always stick together to hate hate hate Whitey.

    The Irish Republic is also insane, or rather pozzed, by its women, the beautiful Vogue Williams being the exception. Most of this Pro-Muslim stuff is done by fatties, ugly old barren cat ladies, and the like hoping for some hot Muslim houseboy action. The female equivalent of those disgusting dudes who rush over to Thailand for underage hookers. You can just check out Heartiste's post on that matter, with pic after pic of "Refugees Welcome" ladies who have not had sex in years.

    Like it or not, this election was a referendum on immediate total surrender or slow motion surrender and immediate surrender won. Brexit is dead in the water as are any limits on refugees or Muslim aggression. But hey, aging cat ladies and fatties got their Jihad-y Muslims to "welcome." Reminds of how Scott Peterson got tons of love letters after he was imprisoned for killing his wife.

    [Israel will in the end look after itself -- that's what its nukes are for, unless it too is so pozzed with its women that it simply surrenders which significant portions want. Recall that women don't run the risk that men do under conquerors. A pretty woman can always be Sultana.]

    I appreciate that you made it through two whole paragraphs before mentioning something blatantly homoerotic involving swarmy men.

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    • Replies: @Lot
    Whiskey says a lot of dumb things about "white women," tarring them all with the action of some far left and lower class minority.

    In this post, however, he limits his claims to the "Refugees Welcome" volunteer women. And there is plenty of real world evidence that ugly single white women like the idea of refugee male boyfriends.
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  147. Art Deco says:
    @The Anti-Gnostic
    I think you're underestimating the degree of self-loathing with which the modern Westerner regards himself and his civilization.

    I think you’re underestimating the degree of self-loathing with which the modern Westerner regards himself and his civilization

    See Thomas Sowell and Paul Hollander, but especially Sowell. Progressives tend to be quite vain. It’s the mass of people (contemporary and historical) outside their social and professional circles that they despise. I’ve known some self-loathing Democratic voters, but they are so for purely personal reasons and are not heavily invested in public affairs.

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    • Replies: @The Anti-Gnostic
    Sowell and Hollander are very old men. I don't doubt that they are astute and wise, but at 80+ years of age you are a long way from the mainstream pulse. Most young Europeans and North Americans are convinced that they are the beneficiaries of unearned privilege and economic injustice and that their society needs to be deconstructed. Their Boomer and Gen-X parents are split approximately half on the issue.
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  148. JerryC says:
    @Art Deco
    No different from blacks insisting the world is racist.

    No it isn't. See Caroline Glick's account of her most recent trip to the UK (for a debate at Oxford). Anti-semitism is quite normal among fancy people in Britain.

    Ah, Caroline Glick, now there’s an unbiased source.

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  149. Abe says: • Website
    @Abe

    The reason they won’t join in his because the guitarist is married to an Israeli lass
     
    That's some serious deep cover!

    The reason they won’t join in his because the guitarist is married to an Israeli lass

    Kidding aside, thanks, that’s interesting to know. In the US while there is all sorts of BDS-craziness on campus, fact remains that no prominent entertainer, celebrity, or businessperson touches it with a ten foot pole. In Europe it was different, and you had Vanessa (Lynn?) Redgrave denouncing Israel from the POzcar podium, and white leftist radicals (Baader Meinhof) shocktrooping for Palestinian terrorist groups. I think one of the big changes is the huge collapse in European high-cultural cachet at the end of the ’90′s. Wood Allen’s career during its prime was an autodidact’s take on European high cinema, art, philosophy, psychology, etc. It was yuckster-ish and smart-alecky on its surface, but at its core deeply reverent and almost despairing in how Allen seemed to realize that his true role as an artist was as popularizer of the European masters by providing Borscht Belt-style color commentary to their towering achievements (see his “parody” of SEVENTH SEAL).

    Thanks to the rise of the Internet, America winning the Cold War, political correctness’s Europhobia, and the general dumbing down of our culture, educated younger Americans don’t have nearly the same Paris Envy as their forebears, and so are freer to buck or ignore European leftist obsessions. Indeed had Her Majesty won, I’m sure the Megaphone would have spent the next 8+ years eulogizing Her unstoppable Grand Coalition of the Fringes comprised of angry single women, LGBT’ers, and Jews and Muslims united in loving disdain of native-born deplorables so-let’s-just-drop-this-whole-Israel-distraction, and that it would have made an easy voyage to Cool Britannia, and then used that as a springboard to the rest of the Continent.

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  150. @Opinionator
    it looks like the only possible way forward is Protection with a capital P. On both sides of the Atlantic. Ryan and Trump are not just enemies, they are electorally incompatible. Citizenists cannot afford to lose any votes by embracing libertarians.


    I don't follow. Please explain.

    It’s quite simple. If Mr. Trump is to spend down all of his political capital, should it be on the Wall and the seven-country travel ban? Or on the “repeal” of O-Care and “tax reform”?

    As for the voters who put Mr. Trump over the top in Pennsylvania, Ohio, Michigan and Wisconsin, are O-Care repeal (and replace, I guess) and tax reform such appealing issues?

    What Paul Ryan (wonkish neo-Libertarian) and the Freedom Caucus (knee-jerk Libertarian) don’t get is that there are a lot of people in the Trump Coalition, mainly Democrats before the Democratic Party ran off the rails into bathroom equity, normalizing the assault of police officers, putting people out of work for environmental purity, and driving wages down by not enforcing existing immigration law.

    There are many Libertarians who have come around to the Trumpian positions on loos, LEOs, loons, and losers. But they just don’t get Trump’s supporters who are not “in” to the classic Libertarian agenda. The notion of governing coalitions and intra-coalition compromise is “woosh” over the heads of the Libertarian commentariat. Many are engaged in running squabbles with their Trumpist followers.

    It’s like Egypt and Saudi apparently not getting along.

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    • Replies: @Anon
    Paul Ryan is not a libertarian. He's a neoliberal/neocon. Ryan's agenda is not in line with the freedom caucus.

    And yes, Obamacare is a big issue. The wall and obamacare are both issues that bigly affect the financial health of Trump's constituency. The travel ban and tax cuts for millionaires, not so much.
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  151. @John Derbyshire
    Northern Ireland prods are traditionally philosemitic. See e.g. N.I. prod novelist Sam Keery's 1995 novel Lilliburlero, esp. Chapter Six.

    Yes, and Irish Republican identification with the Palestinians just made us moreso.

    Funny thing, I know an Ulster Catholic Unionist policeman (once tipped to lead the RUC/PSNI, pr even the Met) who was always pretty anti-Semitic, but he combined it with a love of Israel. I think it’s very common for us Prods to see the Zionist Entity, like apartheid South Africa, as a fellow Crusader State hacking out civilisation from the barbarian wilderness. Israelis seem to like us too, but sadly British right-liberal Zionist Jews like Melanie Phillips tend not to return our affections. Their crusader state = good, our crusader state = bad.

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    • Replies: @Matra
    I think it’s very common for us Prods to see the Zionist Entity, like apartheid South Africa, as a fellow Crusader State hacking out civilisation from the barbarian wilderness.

    I think it is more reactionary than anything. Israel and South Africa fought back against terrorists the same way frustrated Ulstermen wanted to against the IRA but were prevented from doing so by London. Also, Prods noticed the same media that made excuses for the IRA also seemed sympathetic to the ANC and PLO. Sinn Fein's decision to adopt the anti-Apartheid & anti-Zionist causes reinforced the feeling amongst Protestants that white South Africa and Israel were the good guys.

    Incidentally, Sinn Fein has a history of aligning themselves with foreign causes: In Spain they support both Basque and Catalan nationalism and in the US various black and American Indian causes. Unionist political parties and activists have never been all that interested in foreign conflicts.
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  152. @Art Deco
    Au contraire! Hezbollah defends their constituency against the Zio-state’s cross-border violence.

    They do nothing of the kind. They provoke reprisals. They do this because it pleases them, not because it serves any material end.


    How many times has Israel invaded Lebanon? Three times already? And then how many times has Hezbollah invaded Israel? By my count, zero.

    Lebanon was in an anarchic state from 1975 to 1990 and the PLO took advantage of this to stage raids on Israel. Much of Lebanon was at the time occupied by two external forces: PLO brigands who were recruited out of the UNRWA camps and the Syrian military (who were present in Lebanon for 29 years). Hezbollah did not exist at the time of Operation Litani, so they weren't in the business of defending Shi'ites or anyone else. They were not consequential in 1982 (at which time the principal Shi'ite militia was al-Amal, which had scant presence in southern Lebanon). Israel and Hezbollah came to blows in 2006 because Hezbollah wanted to mix it up. Israel has not been at war with the Lebanese state since 1949. It has been at war with paramilitaries exploiting Lebanon as a staging ground.



    As far as being a “criminal organization” is concerned, Hezbollah’s only crime is that they stand in the way of ‘Greater Israel’.

    Only in your addled head. Israel has never had any territorial claims on Lebanese territory nor sought to durably occupy Lebanese territory. Their interest has been in security problems emanating from Lebanese territory.



    Come to think of it, that’s Hamas’ and Syria’s only crime too.

    Again, another fantasy. Syria has been in a state of war with Israel since 1948. That was their choice and maintaining that state of war has been their choice, as has sponsoring various and sundry organizations of brigands and their 29 year long rape of Lebanon. The country has been horribly misgoverned since 1963. Yes, normal people see the Assad mafia for what they are.

    Hamas is headquartered in Gaza, a welfare dump nobody wants. Hard to see how they're resisting a 'Greater Israel' that does not exist. Israel exists, of course, a source of unending bother to a caucus on these boards. Hamas gets its jollies digging tunnels under the border fence and launching artillery barrages against Jewish towns, so every few years Israel knocks out their military equipment and supply dumps, about which they and their advocates whine relentlessly. It's lot simpler to attempt something constructive and leave the burgesses of Sderot alone, but that's not what they wish to do.

    “Again, another fantasy. Syria has been in a state of war with Israel since 1948. That was their choice and maintaining that state of war has been their choice”

    If the Assad regime made peace with Israel they would be delegitimised and fall immediately – currently that would mean an Islamic State or Al Qaeda takeover. If Israel thinks that is in their long term best interests they’re crazy. Israeli interests AFAICT are best served by being surrounded with strong-man secular Arab dictatorships that keep their people in line and have too much to lose to seek war with Israel. Also the (remote) military threat such dictatorships pose(d) has/had a salutary effect on the Israeli population.

    Choose your enemies carefully.

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    • Replies: @Johann Ricke

    If the Assad regime made peace with Israel they would be delegitimised and fall immediately
     
    I'd have to agree here. They used to rely on the compliance of the Sunni Arab majority and now rely on military assistance from Iran in the form of Hezbollah auxiliaries and a cadre of Shiite volunteers recruited globally by Iran. Both are hostile to Israel.
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  153. Anon says: • Disclaimer

    The pro-Tory Jews of Britain may be affected Jeremy Corbyn’s pro-Muslim stance, which frankly makes Obama look like an evangelical Christian. According to Alan Dershowitz, Corbyn’s gone to meetings posted by a Holocaust denier who’s also a 9/11 conspiracy theorist, and has cozied up to Sheikh Raed Salah, who has been convicted for inciting violence, and Corbyn has also worked as a paid contributor to Iranian state TV.

    Frankly, Corbyn sounds like a silly leftist fruitcake. I’m not sure why he thinks drooling over Islamic terrorism is a good idea for the native British, but a certain type of wimpy leftist guy gets a visceral thrill over terrorists, and Corbyn sounds like that sort of guy.

    Corbyn’s personal life is a disaster. He’s been married three times, and he’s been married both to a woman from Chile and one from Mexico. That’s ideological marrying for you. He divorced the Chilean because he didn’t want to sent his kids to a private school. Most men are sane enough not to break up their marriage for a reason that stupid. The current Mexican wife is a ‘human rights lawyer,’ and it’s obvious Corbyn is as fanatical as Savonarola or Oliver Cromwell. Imagine Jeb Bush as a hard-core lefty and you’ll have Corbyn.

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    • Replies: @Lurker
    He was also in a relationship with moronic (black) MP Diane Abbott.
    , @Peter D. Breden
    "also a 9/11 conspiracy theorist,"

    You mean, the 19 Saudis in a cave theory?
    , @Art Deco
    Imagine Jeb Bush as a hard-core lefty and you’ll have Corbyn.

    Jeb Bush is a Republican wet. He isn't stupid. Politics is not his life. He had a long career in real estate and banking and the political positions he's held (as a state cabinet officer and state governor) have real responsibilities attached to them. He's been married for forty-odd years to the same woman. He's has a problem child, but his family life is otherwise not disfigured. I cannot figure why anyone would think he resembled Jeremy Corbyn at all.
    , @snorlax

    He divorced the Chilean because he didn’t want to sent his kids to a private school. Most men are sane enough not to break up their marriage for a reason that stupid.
     
    Not even that: a grammar (selective public) school.
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  154. @Simon in London
    "Again, another fantasy. Syria has been in a state of war with Israel since 1948. That was their choice and maintaining that state of war has been their choice"

    If the Assad regime made peace with Israel they would be delegitimised and fall immediately - currently that would mean an Islamic State or Al Qaeda takeover. If Israel thinks that is in their long term best interests they're crazy. Israeli interests AFAICT are best served by being surrounded with strong-man secular Arab dictatorships that keep their people in line and have too much to lose to seek war with Israel. Also the (remote) military threat such dictatorships pose(d) has/had a salutary effect on the Israeli population.

    Choose your enemies carefully.

    If the Assad regime made peace with Israel they would be delegitimised and fall immediately

    I’d have to agree here. They used to rely on the compliance of the Sunni Arab majority and now rely on military assistance from Iran in the form of Hezbollah auxiliaries and a cadre of Shiite volunteers recruited globally by Iran. Both are hostile to Israel.

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  155. @Opinionator
    What's the argument for why it would give rise to better hedge fund management.

    Less risk-taking – apparently men are more likely to change positions for the sake of changing positions, while the more passive methodology of women is overall more successful in a permanent bull market.

    As in most things, male instincts are more suited for a more dangerous world rather than one of permanent prosperity.

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    • Replies: @Opinionator
    Thanks. Perhaps, although that outlook may be a better fit for management of mutual funds than management of hedge funds, which seem to portray themselves as innovators.
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  156. @Randal
    You mean Russian men don't feel the need to preface their announcements with a preference as to pronoun?

    "I’m George Bridges, I use he/him pronouns."

    She is experiencing gender confusion and is using the wrong pronouns ;)

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  157. biz says:
    @Mr. Anon

    It’s doubtful anyone at the New York Times gives a rip about Israel....
     
    Sure, David Brooks, Thomas Friedman, Nicholas Kristof, Roger Cohen.................they care nothing at all about Israel. Israel is a matter of complete indifference to the staff of the New York Times.

    Do you even read what you write? Does anybody?

    In addition to Art Deco’s reply to you, I’ll note that only one of the four people you listed is particularly pro-Israel (Brooks). As far as I’m aware, Roger Cohen has only written editorials critical of Israel, while Friedman has been critical of their military policy but grudgingly admires their economic growth.

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  158. Lurker says:
    @Anon
    The pro-Tory Jews of Britain may be affected Jeremy Corbyn's pro-Muslim stance, which frankly makes Obama look like an evangelical Christian. According to Alan Dershowitz, Corbyn's gone to meetings posted by a Holocaust denier who's also a 9/11 conspiracy theorist, and has cozied up to Sheikh Raed Salah, who has been convicted for inciting violence, and Corbyn has also worked as a paid contributor to Iranian state TV.

    Frankly, Corbyn sounds like a silly leftist fruitcake. I'm not sure why he thinks drooling over Islamic terrorism is a good idea for the native British, but a certain type of wimpy leftist guy gets a visceral thrill over terrorists, and Corbyn sounds like that sort of guy.

    Corbyn's personal life is a disaster. He's been married three times, and he's been married both to a woman from Chile and one from Mexico. That's ideological marrying for you. He divorced the Chilean because he didn't want to sent his kids to a private school. Most men are sane enough not to break up their marriage for a reason that stupid. The current Mexican wife is a 'human rights lawyer,' and it's obvious Corbyn is as fanatical as Savonarola or Oliver Cromwell. Imagine Jeb Bush as a hard-core lefty and you'll have Corbyn.

    He was also in a relationship with moronic (black) MP Diane Abbott.

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  159. > The Brexit Gap wasn’t huge:
    >
    > … just over two thirds (68%) of those who voted Conservative said
    > they had voted Leave in the referendum. Just under two thirds (64%)
    > of those who voted Labour said they had voted to remain in the EU,
    > as did nearly eight in ten Liberal Democrats.

    If two thirds of one group vote to remain, and two thirds of the other group vote the opposite direction, to leave, I think that’s still a large gap.

    So the ‘Brexit Gap’ is really thirty-two percent (32%). Whether this is ‘hyuuuge!’ is subjective, but I think about 1/3 is still pretty big.

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  160. Lurker says:
    @Simon in London
    "After decades of the English spilling so much blood and treasure for the largely thankless task of defending the Loyalists, perhaps just perhaps, they might give back something worthwhile in return."

    The English have never intervened in Ulster to protect the Loyalists - not even at the Siege of Derry (where I suspect I had more ancestors among the besiegers than the besieged). Military intervention in 1969 was to protect the Catholics/Nationalists from the Protestants/Unionists. There was no credible military threat to the Stormont government, and it took English/Westminster military intervention to energise the IRA and turn them into a credible killing force, because (for one reason) only British military intervention could give them the cover to embark on a large scale terror campaign without fear of retaliatory ethnic cleansing.

    It's remotely conceivable that absent any mainland intervention, Charles Haughey's Republic of Ireland could have militarily mobilised, defeated Stormont and imposed a unified Ireland. But that was a war the Republic certainly did not wish to fight if they could possibly help it - most Irish south of the Nine Counties traditionally see us Northerners as crazy dour violent idiots, best avoided - and that opinion goes for Catholic & Protestant Ulster folk alike.

    most Irish south of the Nine Counties traditionally see us Northerners as crazy dour violent idiots, best avoided – and that opinion goes for Catholic & Protestant Ulster folk alike.

    Anecdote – I work with a woman from Ireland and a guy from NI. Both RC. She is not fond of him and regards him as loud and argumentative – which he is. Though I personally like him and get on well with both of them.

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  161. “The Tories won two fairly Jewish constituencies in the London suburbs, Finchley & Golders Green (which Mrs. Thatcher had represented)”

    Steve, you’ve given me the perfect reason to share this very isteve detail about Margaret Thatcher’s constituency that I read a few days ago in Charles Moore’s biography of Thatcher:

    “At the time of Mrs Thatcher’s selection, the Liberals had benefited from a row about attempts to block the admission of Jews to Finchley golf club, which insisted on prospective members stating their religious affliation. This was thought to reflect badly on Conservatives.And there was some anti semitic feeling in the association at the time”

    The chapter goes on to outline her (successful) attempts to win over the important Jewish vote in the area. To her credit, Thatcher was later to support the right of Oswald Mosley to hold a rally in Trafalgar Square, despite much criticism from her Jewish constituents, on the basis that ‘it means any meeting the communists do not like could be banned”

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  162. biz says:
    @Art Deco
    Au contraire! Hezbollah defends their constituency against the Zio-state’s cross-border violence.

    They do nothing of the kind. They provoke reprisals. They do this because it pleases them, not because it serves any material end.


    How many times has Israel invaded Lebanon? Three times already? And then how many times has Hezbollah invaded Israel? By my count, zero.

    Lebanon was in an anarchic state from 1975 to 1990 and the PLO took advantage of this to stage raids on Israel. Much of Lebanon was at the time occupied by two external forces: PLO brigands who were recruited out of the UNRWA camps and the Syrian military (who were present in Lebanon for 29 years). Hezbollah did not exist at the time of Operation Litani, so they weren't in the business of defending Shi'ites or anyone else. They were not consequential in 1982 (at which time the principal Shi'ite militia was al-Amal, which had scant presence in southern Lebanon). Israel and Hezbollah came to blows in 2006 because Hezbollah wanted to mix it up. Israel has not been at war with the Lebanese state since 1949. It has been at war with paramilitaries exploiting Lebanon as a staging ground.



    As far as being a “criminal organization” is concerned, Hezbollah’s only crime is that they stand in the way of ‘Greater Israel’.

    Only in your addled head. Israel has never had any territorial claims on Lebanese territory nor sought to durably occupy Lebanese territory. Their interest has been in security problems emanating from Lebanese territory.



    Come to think of it, that’s Hamas’ and Syria’s only crime too.

    Again, another fantasy. Syria has been in a state of war with Israel since 1948. That was their choice and maintaining that state of war has been their choice, as has sponsoring various and sundry organizations of brigands and their 29 year long rape of Lebanon. The country has been horribly misgoverned since 1963. Yes, normal people see the Assad mafia for what they are.

    Hamas is headquartered in Gaza, a welfare dump nobody wants. Hard to see how they're resisting a 'Greater Israel' that does not exist. Israel exists, of course, a source of unending bother to a caucus on these boards. Hamas gets its jollies digging tunnels under the border fence and launching artillery barrages against Jewish towns, so every few years Israel knocks out their military equipment and supply dumps, about which they and their advocates whine relentlessly. It's lot simpler to attempt something constructive and leave the burgesses of Sderot alone, but that's not what they wish to do.

    Hell yes, much respect for your getting down into the echo gutter to set the facts straight in this place.

    I am amused that some people’s Israel derangement is so severe that they will lend their support to anything, no matter how divergent from their own professed values – even apparently to CommieIslamist Corbyn and his shady allies – in an attempt to stick it to Israel.

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  163. Charlie_U says:
    @Gabriel M
    Regarding the yoof vote. From age 4-24 Brits are taught communism. The Tories do absolutely nothing about this when they get power, indeed they actually insist that funny faith schools also teach 'British values' (communism). What they hope is that when it comes to voting, people will temper their communism with 'moderation', 'common sense' and a bit of economics. But what if they don't? The young just voted for Venezeula + Muslims, and in record numbers. The hope is that they will smarten up when they have kids, i.e. never.

    Britain is the ultimate black pill.

    Britain is the ultimate black pill.

    Yeah, but at least you had a homeland you could return to, right?

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  164. Charlie_U says:
    @Randal
    You mean Russian men don't feel the need to preface their announcements with a preference as to pronoun?

    "I’m George Bridges, I use he/him pronouns."

    Imagine having to learn how to decline all your new zher pronouns correctly across the 6 Russian cases.

    That would probably be a real b**lache.

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  165. @Art Deco
    I think you’re underestimating the degree of self-loathing with which the modern Westerner regards himself and his civilization

    See Thomas Sowell and Paul Hollander, but especially Sowell. Progressives tend to be quite vain. It's the mass of people (contemporary and historical) outside their social and professional circles that they despise. I've known some self-loathing Democratic voters, but they are so for purely personal reasons and are not heavily invested in public affairs.

    Sowell and Hollander are very old men. I don’t doubt that they are astute and wise, but at 80+ years of age you are a long way from the mainstream pulse. Most young Europeans and North Americans are convinced that they are the beneficiaries of unearned privilege and economic injustice and that their society needs to be deconstructed. Their Boomer and Gen-X parents are split approximately half on the issue.

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    • Replies: @The Anti-Gnostic
    *at 80+ years of age they are a long way from the mainstream pulse.
    , @Art Deco
    Most young Europeans and North Americans are convinced that they are the beneficiaries of unearned privilege and economic injustice and that their society needs to be deconstructed. Their Boomer and Gen-X parents are split approximately half on the issue.

    I guarantee you most young people are what they've always been (and what most adults are), which is neither knowledgeable about nor interested in public affairs except in the most idle way.

    I have a family chock-a-block with young Democratic voters. I have never heard one of them make a remark which bears any resemblance to the sentiments you describe. The most thoroughgoing leftist among them is a social worker married to a doctor. But it's all about other people's hurts and other people's privilege.
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  166. @Anon
    The pro-Tory Jews of Britain may be affected Jeremy Corbyn's pro-Muslim stance, which frankly makes Obama look like an evangelical Christian. According to Alan Dershowitz, Corbyn's gone to meetings posted by a Holocaust denier who's also a 9/11 conspiracy theorist, and has cozied up to Sheikh Raed Salah, who has been convicted for inciting violence, and Corbyn has also worked as a paid contributor to Iranian state TV.

    Frankly, Corbyn sounds like a silly leftist fruitcake. I'm not sure why he thinks drooling over Islamic terrorism is a good idea for the native British, but a certain type of wimpy leftist guy gets a visceral thrill over terrorists, and Corbyn sounds like that sort of guy.

    Corbyn's personal life is a disaster. He's been married three times, and he's been married both to a woman from Chile and one from Mexico. That's ideological marrying for you. He divorced the Chilean because he didn't want to sent his kids to a private school. Most men are sane enough not to break up their marriage for a reason that stupid. The current Mexican wife is a 'human rights lawyer,' and it's obvious Corbyn is as fanatical as Savonarola or Oliver Cromwell. Imagine Jeb Bush as a hard-core lefty and you'll have Corbyn.

    “also a 9/11 conspiracy theorist,”

    You mean, the 19 Saudis in a cave theory?

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  167. @Art Deco
    Corbyn seems to have finessed and downplayed the Brexit issue in this campaign about as well as possible. This adept performance is kind of surprising to casual observers like myself because he had gotten very bad press both in Britain and America, perhaps because he was seen as anti-Israel. F

    It's doubtful anyone at the New York Times gives a rip about Israel and the British press, like the British chatterati generally, is hostile to Israel by default.

    Corbyn grew up in the professional class and has accomplished brothers. He himself has the worst academic record of any British party leader in the last 80 years and a superlatively unimpressive pre-political career. His colleagues in the Labour Party left him on the back bench for 30-odd years. It's a reasonable wager that's because there isn't much between his two ears but sectarian phraseology.

    the British press, like the British chatterati generally, is hostile to Israel by default.

    “The British press” doesn’t consist of just the Guardian; there is strong pro-Israel sentiment in “conservative” publications like the Telegraph and the Spectator.

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    • Replies: @Gabriel M
    The Telegraph went extremely anti-Israel 2010-2015 when Peter Oborne was political editor. During one of the Gaza wars, they had some weird live blog on the front page of the website for a week which just consisted of some interns trawling the web for Palestinian propaganda.

    Then when Corbyn became leader they tried to make some issue out of his comparatively mild pro-Palestinianism. In general, Corbyn seemed to dampen the enthusiasm for Palestinian nationalism among the British media because he was so obviously a loser and anything he was associated with was uncool, but now he is cool so I guess it will come back.
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  168. @The Anti-Gnostic
    Sowell and Hollander are very old men. I don't doubt that they are astute and wise, but at 80+ years of age you are a long way from the mainstream pulse. Most young Europeans and North Americans are convinced that they are the beneficiaries of unearned privilege and economic injustice and that their society needs to be deconstructed. Their Boomer and Gen-X parents are split approximately half on the issue.

    *at 80+ years of age they are a long way from the mainstream pulse.

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  169. J1234 says:

    It looks like youth voted it’s (highly regarded) ignorance and inexperience again.

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  170. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @Simon in London
    "After decades of the English spilling so much blood and treasure for the largely thankless task of defending the Loyalists, perhaps just perhaps, they might give back something worthwhile in return."

    The English have never intervened in Ulster to protect the Loyalists - not even at the Siege of Derry (where I suspect I had more ancestors among the besiegers than the besieged). Military intervention in 1969 was to protect the Catholics/Nationalists from the Protestants/Unionists. There was no credible military threat to the Stormont government, and it took English/Westminster military intervention to energise the IRA and turn them into a credible killing force, because (for one reason) only British military intervention could give them the cover to embark on a large scale terror campaign without fear of retaliatory ethnic cleansing.

    It's remotely conceivable that absent any mainland intervention, Charles Haughey's Republic of Ireland could have militarily mobilised, defeated Stormont and imposed a unified Ireland. But that was a war the Republic certainly did not wish to fight if they could possibly help it - most Irish south of the Nine Counties traditionally see us Northerners as crazy dour violent idiots, best avoided - and that opinion goes for Catholic & Protestant Ulster folk alike.

    Growing up in the 1970s, when the murders of British soldiers by the IRA were more or less a daily occurrence – and which caused much grief and anguish in England – there is a widespread feeling in England that the story of Northern Ireland was nothing but one huge sacrifice for England.

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    • Replies: @Simon in London
    Oh, sure - and the result was that when I lived in working class Coventry and joined the Territorials I faced a lot of resentment from Englishmen who couldn't care less what religion I was, they just hated all of us.

    But British soldiers - English, Scottish, Welsh, Northern Irish - died in their thousands for a British government policy of containment, not to protect Ulster Protestants from the IRA. We could have protected ourselves a lot better on our own.
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  171. jim jones says:
    @jimmyriddle
    Pledging to restore free university education was very effective at getting the yoof to get out of bed and vote.

    It was free when I went, but only available to 10% of the population.

    I had free education reading Physics at Durham University, my belief is that all the money went to Social Services and Asylum Seekers instead of to Education.

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  172. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @anon

    Assuming (as experience suggests it is not unreasonable to do) that people’s opinions change as they grow older and more experienced, that would seem a good place to be, given the demographic forecasts.
     
    no and yes

    the immigrant percentage among the young is huge, growing and concentrated - all the big cities will have gone before long

    on the other hand as a result of the above the white SJW youth from the shrinking number of affluent white areas will increasingly be forced to face the very bleak future their SJW teachers created for them

    there will be a time lag between the first and second

    Another point is that the indigenous, ethnic English are, literally, a dying race.
    There is no doubt that deaths surpass births by a surprising degree amongst the English. The effect is masked in the rather bland statistics due to the magnitude of immigration and birth rate of the immigrant population.
    A big proportion of non replaced die-off must be Conservative voters.

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    • Replies: @anon

    A big proportion of non replaced die-off must be Conservative voters.
     
    yes but on the other hand there's also a lot of older blindly loyal Labour voters whose loyalty was formed in the decades when the Labour party wasn't their deadly enemy.

    So overall yes the birth-death ratio is as much against the Cons as immigration - the only upside is that within what's left of wwc society the pro-Labour balance is declining as dramatically.
    , @Hippopotamusdrome


    Another point is that the indigenous, ethnic English are, literally, a dying race.
    There is no doubt that deaths surpass births by a surprising degree amongst the English.

     

    So the Earth with 7.5 billion, which was 5 billion in 1987, must forever increase, and if any nation reaches a state of population equalibrium, or a state of gradual decrease, they are a "dying race"?
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  173. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @Art Deco
    British Jews are predominantly Orthodox, and tend to understand themselves as a confession, not an ethnic group. There are only about 500,000 Orthodox Jews in the United States and most self-identified Jews are not even notionally religious. (I doubt Orthodox Jews are all that wedded to the Democratic Party or share the affluence of the rest of the Jewish population).

    One other thing: after 1880, the Republican Party was adept at presenting itself as the vehicle for old stock Americans while capturing small immigrant streams. The Democrats caputured large immigrant flows (Jews among them), especially after 1930. Eastern and Southern European ethnics reacted contra the disorders which erupted in core cities after 1962 and largely decamped to the Republicans. Jews protected their persons in various ways, but in their civic aspect reacted-to-the-reaction. Also, there isn't much of an evangelical element in Britain, whereas in the United States it is demographically important and, after 1978, aligned with the Republican Party. Rank and file Jews (or, rather about 2/3 of them) have a fairly uncomplicated hostility to evangelicals and Jewish publicists (e.g. Hendrik Hertzberg, Michael Kinsley, and Martin Peretz) are explicit and unashamed in this regard. Jewish Republicans (e.g. the Podhoretz clan) tend to be more hostile to Catholics.

    Corbyn and his ‘trendy’ pro Palestinian stance, are, in reality the standard operating meme with Britain’s medium to hard left rather like ‘anti racism’ feminism ‘gay rights’ etc etc.
    Such luminaries as Ken Livingstone and George Galloway are also big advocates.
    They are really ‘SWP’ (Socialist Workers Party) lite.
    Apart from their insufferably stupid ‘pro refugee’ flyposters and stickers and their hideously violent rent a mob bullies, who regularly physically attack nationalists, the strongly pro Palestine and anti Zionist SWP is distinguished by a more or less exclusively ethnically Jewish leadership caste.

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    • Replies: @Anonymous Nephew
    "the strongly pro Palestine and anti Zionist SWP is distinguished by a more or less exclusively ethnically Jewish leadership caste."

    Tony Cliff (ne Israel Gluckstein), SWP founder, has been deceased for some 16 years. The current leader is an interesting hybrid of Brit aristo and Greek resistance fighter, and holds a professorship at KCL, which shows exactly what a threat to "the establishment" the SWP presents.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tony_Cliff

    OTOH, if you look at Wiki's 13 "Key Trotskyists" (on the right of the Cliff wiki), you'll see that 5 out of 13 were Jewish (Cliff, Frank, Ted Grant ne Isaac Blank, Lambert, Mandel), which is a pretty remarkable statistic - about 40%)
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  174. Art Deco says:
    @Randal
    Antisemitism isn't normal (in the sense you use the term, meaning commonplace). Opposition to Israel, which is almost invariably misunderstood or misrepresented as antisemitism by jews and their sympathisers, is fairly commonplace.

    A recognition of the fundamental truth that jewish people are, like muslims, a foreign group tending to external patriotic and cultural loyalties is also not unknown and similarly misrepresented, though increasingly suppressed by the establishment and even by the state.

    Antisemitism isn’t normal (in the sense you use the term, meaning commonplace).

    Among ordinary people? No. Among people who publish for a living and those in their social circles, without a doubt.

    Opposition to Israel, which is almost invariably misunderstood or misrepresented as antisemitism by jews and their sympathisers, is fairly commonplace.

    It’s a country with the population of Austria and a domestic product about that of Denmark. Its military is well provisioned, but no better than Australia’s, about which no one’s complaining.

    It currently occupies land outside the 1949 armistice lines, which bothers people a great deal. That Israel has made five (unsuccessful) attempts to either institute local government or off-load these territories is something those bothered elect to ignore. That Israel alsoo has withdrawn it’s troops from settlements where 80% of the Arab population lives is also ignored by those bothered.

    It has conflicts with various Arab paramilitary forces, which is not surprising inasmuch as the Arab paramilitaries and various free-range characters wish to kill Jews. That Jews take steps meant to prevent Arab paramilitaries from killing them is regarded with gorge-rising disgust by certain parties (among them British journalists).

    A recognition of the fundamental truth that jewish people are, like muslims, a foreign group tending to external patriotic and cultural loyalties is also not unknown and similarly misrepresented, though increasingly suppressed by the establishment and even by the state.

    There are 300,000 Jews in Britain who aren’t causing any trouble at all. Come to think of it, American Jews aren’t causing trouble in any systematic way, either. If there’s nothing going on though, you can always work yourself into a lather meditating on the ownership of MGM and CBS ca. 1945, or perhaps on the membership of the executive corps of Lehman Brothers. Oh, and Wm. Kristol edits a magazine. And Douglas Feith took two courses from Leo Strauss. And they can buy and sell the Tennessee legislature.

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    • Replies: @Opinionator
    That Israel has made five (unsuccessful) attempts to either institute local government or off-load these territories is something those bothered elect to ignore.

    Please post for us with a citation a single offer by Israel to relinquish the West Bank.
    , @Randal

    Among ordinary people? No. Among people who publish for a living and those in their social circles, without a doubt.
     
    No, again just like black activists endlessly trumpeting about how "racist" anyone who disagrees with them is, jewish activists like yourself endlessly mis-categorise disagreement with your positions or disapproval of your group's activities as "anti-Semitism".

    There's nothing particularly special or difficult to understand about it.

    There are 300,000 Jews in Britain who aren’t causing any trouble at all. Come to think of it, American Jews aren’t causing trouble in any systematic way, either.
     
    Both groups certainly are causing problems, because just as with other groups that have foreign national and religious loyalties, their interests are not always aligned with those of their host nations. In Britain, jewish lobby groups push to distort our foreign policy in the interests of Israel and for censorship of our speech. The former is understandable and legitimate up to a point, the latter not so much. Same in the US as far as I can see, though they are constrained by the First Amendment in how far they can push the restrictions they'd like to see on freedom of speech, for now.
    , @anon
    you're right - the dominant anti-nationalist, anti-colonialist culture created by cultural Marxists in the Anglosphere education system after they were chased out of continental Europe in the 1930s is now being applied to Israel cos a lot of Anglos are genetically wired up to have that thing where (in public at least) they have to be morally consistent or it messes their head up.

    doh!
    , @Kyle McKenna

    American Jews aren’t causing trouble in any systematic way
     
    Funny you should put it that way, since 'systematic' may indeed be the perfect word for the 'trouble' 'American Jews' are causing.

    Since, after all, the system is 'owned' lock, stock, and barrel.

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  175. @Chrisnonymous
    In this case, I don't think the demographics are as interesting as the issues. From Lord Ashcroft:

    Asked unprompted which issues had been the most important in their voting decision, Conservatives were most likely to name Brexit (as were Liberal Democrats), followed by having the right leadership. Labour voters, meanwhile, were most likely to name the NHS and spending cuts. Only 8% of Labour voters named Brexit as the most important issue in their decision, compared to 48% of those who voted Conservative.
     
    Of course, people's self-professed reasons for voting may not be accurate, but it looks like the only possible way forward is Protection with a capital P. On both sides of the Atlantic. Ryan and Trump are not just enemies, they are electorally incompatible. Citizenists cannot afford to lose any votes by embracing libertarians. Sad to say.

    Ryan and Trump are not just enemies, they are electorally incompatible. Citizenists cannot afford to lose any votes by embracing libertarians. Sad to say.

    Agreed Chris.

    I’ve got no love for an American NHS. I’d rather keep my money in my own pocket and figure out my own medical needs.

    But if it’s a question of single payer–being overtaxed to pay medical care for lots of low earning blacks and mexicans–versus importing throngs of more low IQ foreigners into the US, this isn’t even an interesting question. Gimme that dang single payer thing right now!

    A big-ass welfare state with a *real border* is way, way, way preferable to the open borders lunacy of so-called “libertarians”. And of course the open border will inevitably enable the state party to import enough marginal earner foreigners to win elections and bring in an expansive welfare state anyway. “Libertarianism” can only plausibly work–if it can work at all–in a closed society of mostly competent people of independent mien and a common genetic background.

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  176. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer

    The Conservatives are really between a rock and a hard place.

    Due to Britain’s rapidly changing demographics, in order to win, they need to attract a substantial chunk of the black/brown vote, yet on the other hand, any pandering to black/browns only repels their core voter base.
    No doubt Theresa May’s only real manifesto ‘goody’ – ie to crackdown on immigration as far as possible, energized a huge Labour black/brown vote.
    Evidently the threat of not be able to import your cousin/spouse/granny etc for the express purpose of sucking on the British taxpayer teat is a powerful motivator.

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    • Replies: @anon

    Due to Britain’s rapidly changing demographics, in order to win, they need to attract a substantial chunk of the black/brown vote
     
    obvious GOPe nonsense

    the only way to not put off (most) non-white immigrants is to allow endless chain migration and the Cons will always get a minority of an imported minimum wage immigrant vote

    obviously

    the Cons main problem, like GOPe, is their internal fifth column of open borders lobbyists

    also, the other best way to appeal to some immigrant groups (the ones who come from countries with a long history of conflict with Muslims) is to halt Muslim immigration - it's partly why Indians have been slowly sliding to the Cons.
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  177. Art Deco says:
    @Randal

    Hamas and Hezbollah are criminal organizations who attack everything the West stands for. Hezbollah’s constituency has no legitimate beef with Israel at all, but that has not in the past dissuaded Hezbollah from engaging in pointless cross-border violence.
     
    LOL! If having your country invaded and occupied doesn't count as a "legimitate beef" for you then you are not rational on the topic.

    As for Hamas and Hezbollah, the honest assessment is that they are legitimate popular national defence organisations for their respective peoples, that have arisen in response to threats to their people. You can then debate their merits vis a vis their Israeli enemies all you like, but pretending they are enemies of any other country other than to the extent that country supports their own enemy is either dishonest or ignorant, albeit understandable for Israeli partisans.

    LOL! If having your country invaded and occupied doesn’t count as a “legimitate beef” for you then you are not rational on the topic.

    Hezbollah do not own Lebanon, Hezbollah was not a consequential political force at the time Israel entered Lebanon in 1982, Lebanon was in an anarchic state in 1982 and south Lebanon was largely occupied by the PLO, and Israel had not had troops in Lebanon for more than 20 years when Hezbollah decided they wanted to rumble.

    As for Hamas and Hezbollah, the honest assessment is that they are legitimate popular national defence organisations for their respective peoples,

    And you fancy that’s a point in favor of ‘their people’.

    that have arisen in response to threats to their people.

    Actually, Hezbollah was at its inception a project of the Iranian government. Israel’s never been a ‘threat’ to Lebanese shi’ites unless they’re raiding across the border (or perhaps killing Israel’s allies). The authentic rivals to Lebanon’s shi’ites are to be found in their own country’s confessional and factional mosaic.

    As for Hamas, if they wish to live a quiet life, they can quit with the artillery barrages and negotiate a deal with their Jewish neighbors. The latter is something they refuse to do. Well, there are benefits and costs to every course of action you take.

    You can then debate their merits vis a vis their Israeli enemies all you like, but pretending they are enemies of any other country other than to the extent that country supports their own enemy is either dishonest or ignorant, albeit understandable for Israeli partisans.

    They’re pretty much enemies of everyone, and for no very good reason. They do not bother to hide it.

    As for you, there’s who you fancy you are, and who you actually are.

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    • Replies: @Randal
    You seem to think blurting out a blatantly dishonest pseudo-history of Israel's involvement in Lebanon is useful to your cause for some reason, but I'm not persuaded by any of it because I know enough to recognise its falsehoods, and any neutral reader with any interest in the issue can find out the truth in a few minutes research.

    Presumably it's reassuring for you in some way.

    Here's the reality, in summary: Israel invaded Lebanon in 1982 and occupied Beirut. Just as with the US invasion of Iraq, that invasion created more problems than it solved. Israel withdrew from Beirut but tried to hold on to southern Lebanon with a proxy force of collaborators, only finally admitting defeat (at the hands of Hezbollah) and pulling out in 2000 (leaving aside the further disputed occupation of the Shebaa Farms, of course)

    Regardless, the obvious reality is that Hezbollah is not a threat to anyone other than its own local rivals, who is not involved with Israel and its nasty dealings in Lebanon and Syria, and therefore the real threat to normal folk in the West are those who seek to implicate us unduly in the affairs of any of those benighted countries.

    While propagandists for Israel like yourself collectively have sufficient clout for now to keep the official story about Hezbollah in the West aligned with your partisan fantasy, you discredit yourselves further every day you try to maintain that obvious fiction as truth. In the end, it will escape your control.
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  178. Crowstep says:

    One point worth noting in regards to British Jews is that they are basically an invisible minority. There are plenty of Jews in public life, but they are very well assimilated and intermarry a lot, to the extent that the secular Ashkenazi have all but disappeared as a distinct ethnic group. In the 19th/20th century many of them anglicised their names (consider actor Andrew Garfield, the family name was originally Garfinkel).

    Most British people, if asked to name famous Jews, would struggle. Although many Jewish or part Jewish public figures are extremely well-known (Steven Fry, Ed Miliband, Natasha Kaplinsky, Alan Sugar and so on).

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    • Replies: @anon

    There are plenty of Jews in public life, but they are very well assimilated and intermarry a lot, to the extent that the secular Ashkenazi have all but disappeared as a distinct ethnic group.
     
    It's certainly true that almost no one in Britain (apart from most immigrants) realizes that Jews are an active political faction that clearly look out for their group interests as a group - and even if they don't always agree on all the details of what those interests are e.g. Israel, they all seem to agree that turning the native population into a minority is good for them.
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  179. Art Deco says:
    @Anon
    The pro-Tory Jews of Britain may be affected Jeremy Corbyn's pro-Muslim stance, which frankly makes Obama look like an evangelical Christian. According to Alan Dershowitz, Corbyn's gone to meetings posted by a Holocaust denier who's also a 9/11 conspiracy theorist, and has cozied up to Sheikh Raed Salah, who has been convicted for inciting violence, and Corbyn has also worked as a paid contributor to Iranian state TV.

    Frankly, Corbyn sounds like a silly leftist fruitcake. I'm not sure why he thinks drooling over Islamic terrorism is a good idea for the native British, but a certain type of wimpy leftist guy gets a visceral thrill over terrorists, and Corbyn sounds like that sort of guy.

    Corbyn's personal life is a disaster. He's been married three times, and he's been married both to a woman from Chile and one from Mexico. That's ideological marrying for you. He divorced the Chilean because he didn't want to sent his kids to a private school. Most men are sane enough not to break up their marriage for a reason that stupid. The current Mexican wife is a 'human rights lawyer,' and it's obvious Corbyn is as fanatical as Savonarola or Oliver Cromwell. Imagine Jeb Bush as a hard-core lefty and you'll have Corbyn.

    Imagine Jeb Bush as a hard-core lefty and you’ll have Corbyn.

    Jeb Bush is a Republican wet. He isn’t stupid. Politics is not his life. He had a long career in real estate and banking and the political positions he’s held (as a state cabinet officer and state governor) have real responsibilities attached to them. He’s been married for forty-odd years to the same woman. He’s has a problem child, but his family life is otherwise not disfigured. I cannot figure why anyone would think he resembled Jeremy Corbyn at all.

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  180. Art Deco says:
    @The Anti-Gnostic
    Sowell and Hollander are very old men. I don't doubt that they are astute and wise, but at 80+ years of age you are a long way from the mainstream pulse. Most young Europeans and North Americans are convinced that they are the beneficiaries of unearned privilege and economic injustice and that their society needs to be deconstructed. Their Boomer and Gen-X parents are split approximately half on the issue.

    Most young Europeans and North Americans are convinced that they are the beneficiaries of unearned privilege and economic injustice and that their society needs to be deconstructed. Their Boomer and Gen-X parents are split approximately half on the issue.

    I guarantee you most young people are what they’ve always been (and what most adults are), which is neither knowledgeable about nor interested in public affairs except in the most idle way.

    I have a family chock-a-block with young Democratic voters. I have never heard one of them make a remark which bears any resemblance to the sentiments you describe. The most thoroughgoing leftist among them is a social worker married to a doctor. But it’s all about other people’s hurts and other people’s privilege.

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    • Replies: @The Anti-Gnostic
    IOW, they despise their countrymen, which is basically a projection of the attitude I described. They will vote for Open Borders, and assume they will be spared the cannibal pot. The root of this attitude is self-loathing. They do not believe white people have a right to exist.
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  181. Anon says: • Disclaimer
    @Inquiring Mind
    It's quite simple. If Mr. Trump is to spend down all of his political capital, should it be on the Wall and the seven-country travel ban? Or on the "repeal" of O-Care and "tax reform"?

    As for the voters who put Mr. Trump over the top in Pennsylvania, Ohio, Michigan and Wisconsin, are O-Care repeal (and replace, I guess) and tax reform such appealing issues?

    What Paul Ryan (wonkish neo-Libertarian) and the Freedom Caucus (knee-jerk Libertarian) don't get is that there are a lot of people in the Trump Coalition, mainly Democrats before the Democratic Party ran off the rails into bathroom equity, normalizing the assault of police officers, putting people out of work for environmental purity, and driving wages down by not enforcing existing immigration law.

    There are many Libertarians who have come around to the Trumpian positions on loos, LEOs, loons, and losers. But they just don't get Trump's supporters who are not "in" to the classic Libertarian agenda. The notion of governing coalitions and intra-coalition compromise is "woosh" over the heads of the Libertarian commentariat. Many are engaged in running squabbles with their Trumpist followers.

    It's like Egypt and Saudi apparently not getting along.

    Paul Ryan is not a libertarian. He’s a neoliberal/neocon. Ryan’s agenda is not in line with the freedom caucus.

    And yes, Obamacare is a big issue. The wall and obamacare are both issues that bigly affect the financial health of Trump’s constituency. The travel ban and tax cuts for millionaires, not so much.

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  182. Matra says:
    @Simon in London
    Yes, and Irish Republican identification with the Palestinians just made us moreso.

    Funny thing, I know an Ulster Catholic Unionist policeman (once tipped to lead the RUC/PSNI, pr even the Met) who was always pretty anti-Semitic, but he combined it with a love of Israel. I think it's very common for us Prods to see the Zionist Entity, like apartheid South Africa, as a fellow Crusader State hacking out civilisation from the barbarian wilderness. Israelis seem to like us too, but sadly British right-liberal Zionist Jews like Melanie Phillips tend not to return our affections. Their crusader state = good, our crusader state = bad.

    I think it’s very common for us Prods to see the Zionist Entity, like apartheid South Africa, as a fellow Crusader State hacking out civilisation from the barbarian wilderness.

    I think it is more reactionary than anything. Israel and South Africa fought back against terrorists the same way frustrated Ulstermen wanted to against the IRA but were prevented from doing so by London. Also, Prods noticed the same media that made excuses for the IRA also seemed sympathetic to the ANC and PLO. Sinn Fein’s decision to adopt the anti-Apartheid & anti-Zionist causes reinforced the feeling amongst Protestants that white South Africa and Israel were the good guys.

    Incidentally, Sinn Fein has a history of aligning themselves with foreign causes: In Spain they support both Basque and Catalan nationalism and in the US various black and American Indian causes. Unionist political parties and activists have never been all that interested in foreign conflicts.

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    • Replies: @celt darnell
    Sinn Fein also got smarter as the last century wore on -- they had earlier cheered on Adolf Hitler and his gang...
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  183. @Daniel Chieh
    Less risk-taking - apparently men are more likely to change positions for the sake of changing positions, while the more passive methodology of women is overall more successful in a permanent bull market.

    As in most things, male instincts are more suited for a more dangerous world rather than one of permanent prosperity.

    Thanks. Perhaps, although that outlook may be a better fit for management of mutual funds than management of hedge funds, which seem to portray themselves as innovators.

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  184. Anonym says:
    @anon
    that generation knocked the floor out of social conservatism not understanding the abyss that lies underneath

    Absolutely.

    I hope the fancy house was worth it for collaborating on this, Gilmour.

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  185. Thea says:

    When the Muslims are in the majority, they may always vote labour. But the Labour politicians they vote for will not look like Blair or Corbyn.

    The U.K. may become a caliphate in our lifetime.

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    • Replies: @celt darnell
    Perhaps if you're a newborn, love.

    Muslims are still some 5% of the population and still won't be at 10% by the next census -- contrary to the hyperventilating.

    They're also unpopular with other ethnic minorities, including Hindus and Sikhs -- Britain's version of the coalition of the fringes is rather more fissiparous than America's. That the Jews have already jumped ship is a sign of things to come.

    There's also, particularly after the recent terrorist atrocities, growing hostility to Muslim immigration. More and more people -- including very unlikely ones like Martin Amis and Morrissey -- are starting to raise awkward questions. Yes, as has been shown with Katy Hopkins people who are too vocal are slapped down, but as the voices become more numerous, it's going to start becoming a game of whack-a-mole.

    (FYI -- one of the reasons Tessie was denied her majority was because of those terrorist attacks, Jeremy Corbyn was astute enough to point out that, as the former Home Secretary, the security lapses took place on her watch. A lot of right-wingers, meantime, were disgusted with May's pathetic responses to them.)

    Add to the fact we don't have an Ellis Island myth (i.e. PC propaganda) and that despite a serious campaign in support of it, no-one believes for a moment the claim that Britain is a "nation of immigrants."

    Yes, the situation is serious and I think there are real dangers ahead but no, the UK ain't going to become a caliphate in your lifetime.
    , @anon
    yes - as they become dominant in any particular city or region they will gradually replace the Leftist traitors who imported them to change the electorate - and eventually all the issues those Leftists imported those extra votes to impose - homosexual rights, feminism etc will be reversed.
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  186. rw95 says:
    @anon

    So much for that whole “the youth support nationalism” thing.
     
    c. 50% of white youth in France

    c. 10% in England

    cultural Marxists were chased out of continental Europe by Hitler into the Anglosphere where they poisoned the education system

    You know that the 40% of the youth vote that Le Pen received was 40% of the youth WHO BOTHERED TO SHOW UP AND VOTE, and is hardly representative of the French youth as a whole, right?

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    • Replies: @anon
    you know you're triggered by half the white French youth voting Le Pen right?
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  187. @Art Deco
    Antisemitism isn’t normal (in the sense you use the term, meaning commonplace).

    Among ordinary people? No. Among people who publish for a living and those in their social circles, without a doubt.


    Opposition to Israel, which is almost invariably misunderstood or misrepresented as antisemitism by jews and their sympathisers, is fairly commonplace.

    It's a country with the population of Austria and a domestic product about that of Denmark. Its military is well provisioned, but no better than Australia's, about which no one's complaining.

    It currently occupies land outside the 1949 armistice lines, which bothers people a great deal. That Israel has made five (unsuccessful) attempts to either institute local government or off-load these territories is something those bothered elect to ignore. That Israel alsoo has withdrawn it's troops from settlements where 80% of the Arab population lives is also ignored by those bothered.

    It has conflicts with various Arab paramilitary forces, which is not surprising inasmuch as the Arab paramilitaries and various free-range characters wish to kill Jews. That Jews take steps meant to prevent Arab paramilitaries from killing them is regarded with gorge-rising disgust by certain parties (among them British journalists).




    A recognition of the fundamental truth that jewish people are, like muslims, a foreign group tending to external patriotic and cultural loyalties is also not unknown and similarly misrepresented, though increasingly suppressed by the establishment and even by the state.


    There are 300,000 Jews in Britain who aren't causing any trouble at all. Come to think of it, American Jews aren't causing trouble in any systematic way, either. If there's nothing going on though, you can always work yourself into a lather meditating on the ownership of MGM and CBS ca. 1945, or perhaps on the membership of the executive corps of Lehman Brothers. Oh, and Wm. Kristol edits a magazine. And Douglas Feith took two courses from Leo Strauss. And they can buy and sell the Tennessee legislature.

    That Israel has made five (unsuccessful) attempts to either institute local government or off-load these territories is something those bothered elect to ignore.

    Please post for us with a citation a single offer by Israel to relinquish the West Bank.

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    • Replies: @Art Deco
    Please post for us with a citation a single offer by Israel to relinquish the West Bank.

    Offers have been made twice, by Ehud Barak in 2000 and Ehud Olmert in 2008.
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  188. @anon
    OT:
    http://nautil.us/issue/48/chaos/what-both-the-left-and-right-get-wrong-about-race

    At first I was like:

    Race does not stand up scientifically, period. To begin with, if race categories were meant primarily to capture differences in genetics, they are doing an abysmal job.

    but then I was like:

    The very differences in genetics between ancestral groups make comparisons across groups impossible.

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  189. snorlax says:
    @eah
    The truth is that the US government is still behaving like a 5th column:

    Homeland Security secretary suggests amnesty for Dreamers, implores Congress to solve problem

    “You’ve got to solve this problem,” Homeland Security Secretary John F. Kelly told the House Homeland Security Committee when members prodded him not to deport Dreamers...In two days of testimony to Congress, Homeland Security Secretary John F. Kelly said he doubts his ability to oust some 250,000 immigrants from Central American countries who have been in the U.S. for nearly two decades on a temporary humanitarian relief program. He also signaled that he would keep protecting 780,000 Dreamers from deportation and hoped Congress would grant them permanent status.

    So after all the Trump campaign lies rhetoric, this is the result: a cuck as head of Homeland Security -- a beta who whines and wrings his hands like a woman while testifying about how incompetent he is -- someone who gives up without even trying.

    Trump should’ve nominated Sessions for Homeland Security and a tough-as-nails, no-compromises prosecutor (preferably Giuliani) for AG.

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    • Replies: @anon
    Sessions is doing great in his quietly stealth way.
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  190. snorlax says:
    @LondonBob
    It is nuts but the Conservatives have done nothing to stop Commonwealth citizens from voting in our elections.

    A big failure for me was the press and Conservative politicians spent large amounts of time attacking Corbyn for being a terrorist sympathiser over his support for the Palestinians. The British public is very pro Palestinian and this had absolutely no effect. Simply incomprehensible to them why this would not work and why Corbyn would be popular to people. Many ways similar to attacks on Trump. My Jewish friends are wild in their hatred for Corbyn so I think that is largely a reflection of their worldview, which unsurprisingly very few British people share.

    Another Trump parallel is a reasonably large number of Remain voters simply refuse to accept the referendum result and seem to spend every waking over frustrating Brexit. Many voted Labour despite Corbyn being a lifelong Eurosceptic who has endorsed Brexit.

    Yes, I was very confused as to why the attacks on Corbyn as terrorist sympathizer focused on his Hamas sympathies instead of more fertile ground — it was political malpractice that his speech demanding Parliament observe a moment of silence for IRA terrorists wasn’t plastered on the front pages of the entire Tory press. (Likewise his support for the Argentine side in the Falklands, his endorsement of the Brighton hotel bombing, etc).

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  191. Philip Neal says: • Website

    Some thoughts.

    The Conservatives increased their share of the popular vote but Labour did so too by a larger factor.

    The only election communication I received was from the incumbent Labour MP, and it contained a voter registration form – something I have never seen done before. If this was common practice throughout the country, it will have increased the number of first time voters.

    Labour undertook to abolish university tuition fees, which may partly explain its appeal to the youth vote.

    Electoral boundaries have remained unchanged for going on 20 years, a factor which favours Labour.

    The opinion polls, none of which predicted the result of the 2015 general election, were all based on revised and untested methodologies.

    The Jewish vote is too small to count for anything, and everybody else either actively dislikes Israel or could not care less about it.

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    • Replies: @Kyle McKenna
    It seems to require repeating daily : it's not the size of the "Jewish vote" it's the magnitude of their power, which derives from their wealth and their control of mass-media narratives.

    Everyone here knows this, most especially including the increasing contingent who deny it the loudest.
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  192. fish says:
    @Tiny Duck
    Most of uks youth are People of Color

    People of Color are the future

    ‘S’mofo butter layin’ me to da’ BONE! Jackin’ me up… tight me!

    -Leonard Pitts

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  193. @Simon in London
    The age gap seems insane, but I think it may be longstanding. Tories have always been the grown-up party. I remember being 19 years old in 1992 and voting Liberal Democrat, to my eternal shame.
    More worrying is if British children are now being successfully indoctrinated in cultural Marxism, traditionally a phenomenon only seen in places like Germany & Sweden. Ten-twelve years or so ago my University students (of all races) strongly rejected Political Correctness, but they had grown up pre-New Labour, when Men Were Free. Today's 18 year old University students have had cultural Marxist indoctrination all their lives, at a much more ingrained level than prior generations. The current vituperation against the DUP* from even the right-wing UK press is worrying too.

    *The Tory's new post-election partners; socially conservative Ulster Protestants who aren't big on Social Justice causes like Gay Marriage or (one suspects) transgender men in women's changing rooms.

    “The age gap seems insane”

    But not as insane as the Jewish/Muslim gap, even less the Jewish/Pakistani-Bangladeshi gap, which is nearly as pronounced as Steve’s famous Mormon/black gap in the 2012 Presidential.

    (As some have noted, the Muslim population is very young, so that will tend to accentuate the youth gap.)

    On terror, for years ‘British’ jihadi terrorists have been of Pakistani or African (incl Afro-Caribbean) descent, and very few (if any) have come from East London’s Bangladeshis. When the latest bridge attack happened, the perps turned out to be the product of Mrs May’s lax border controls, not local Banglas.

    Meanwhile back in the old country, Bangla liberals are being murdered by jihadists – but it don’t seem to have spread to the UK yet. OTOH, I have to assume that the huge increase in acid attacks (several hundred a year, mostly in East London) is a Bangla thing.

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  194. @Anonymous
    Corbyn and his 'trendy' pro Palestinian stance, are, in reality the standard operating meme with Britain's medium to hard left rather like 'anti racism' feminism 'gay rights' etc etc.
    Such luminaries as Ken Livingstone and George Galloway are also big advocates.
    They are really 'SWP' (Socialist Workers Party) lite.
    Apart from their insufferably stupid 'pro refugee' flyposters and stickers and their hideously violent rent a mob bullies, who regularly physically attack nationalists, the strongly pro Palestine and anti Zionist SWP is distinguished by a more or less exclusively ethnically Jewish leadership caste.

    “the strongly pro Palestine and anti Zionist SWP is distinguished by a more or less exclusively ethnically Jewish leadership caste.”

    Tony Cliff (ne Israel Gluckstein), SWP founder, has been deceased for some 16 years. The current leader is an interesting hybrid of Brit aristo and Greek resistance fighter, and holds a professorship at KCL, which shows exactly what a threat to “the establishment” the SWP presents.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tony_Cliff

    OTOH, if you look at Wiki’s 13 “Key Trotskyists” (on the right of the Cliff wiki), you’ll see that 5 out of 13 were Jewish (Cliff, Frank, Ted Grant ne Isaac Blank, Lambert, Mandel), which is a pretty remarkable statistic – about 40%)

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    • Replies: @Lurker

    if you look at Wiki’s 13 “Key Trotskyists” (on the right of the Cliff wiki), you’ll see that 5 out of 13 were Jewish (Cliff, Frank, Ted Grant ne Isaac Blank, Lambert, Mandel), which is a pretty remarkable statistic – about 40%)
     
    Or perhaps not so remarkable. ;-)
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  195. @Anonymous
    Growing up in the 1970s, when the murders of British soldiers by the IRA were more or less a daily occurrence - and which caused much grief and anguish in England - there is a widespread feeling in England that the story of Northern Ireland was nothing but one huge sacrifice for England.

    Oh, sure – and the result was that when I lived in working class Coventry and joined the Territorials I faced a lot of resentment from Englishmen who couldn’t care less what religion I was, they just hated all of us.

    But British soldiers – English, Scottish, Welsh, Northern Irish – died in their thousands for a British government policy of containment, not to protect Ulster Protestants from the IRA. We could have protected ourselves a lot better on our own.

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    • Replies: @Dr Hook
    "British soldiers died in their thousands in Northern Ireland"?????
    550 regulars and about 200 Ulster Defence Regiment personnel died in Northern Ireland (the UDR was the local - overwhelmingly Protestant- militia).
    Over a 35 year period.
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  196. Blake says:

    Unsure how these demographics were done as one is just handed a paper at the polling station with the list of candidates on and you put an X next to the candidate of your choice. No name is needed. Just an X.

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    • Replies: @anon
    polling companies ask people how they voted afterwards - so not 100% accurate maybe but the closest we have

    unlike the states the UK still pretends ethnicity isn't the most relevant factor because liberals are still pretending to themselves the multicult they created doesn't lead to ethnic balkanization and tribalism even though it clearly does...

    cos genetics is true and the boassian blank slate was a cultural marxist lie developed to change US immigration policy.
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  197. Kyle McKenna [AKA "Mika-Non"] says:
    @Philip Neal
    Some thoughts.

    The Conservatives increased their share of the popular vote but Labour did so too by a larger factor.

    The only election communication I received was from the incumbent Labour MP, and it contained a voter registration form - something I have never seen done before. If this was common practice throughout the country, it will have increased the number of first time voters.

    Labour undertook to abolish university tuition fees, which may partly explain its appeal to the youth vote.

    Electoral boundaries have remained unchanged for going on 20 years, a factor which favours Labour.

    The opinion polls, none of which predicted the result of the 2015 general election, were all based on revised and untested methodologies.

    The Jewish vote is too small to count for anything, and everybody else either actively dislikes Israel or could not care less about it.

    It seems to require repeating daily : it’s not the size of the “Jewish vote” it’s the magnitude of their power, which derives from their wealth and their control of mass-media narratives.

    Everyone here knows this, most especially including the increasing contingent who deny it the loudest.

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  198. […] UK Exit Poll Demographics (Steve Sailer, The Unz Review) […]

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  199. snorlax says:
    @Anon
    The pro-Tory Jews of Britain may be affected Jeremy Corbyn's pro-Muslim stance, which frankly makes Obama look like an evangelical Christian. According to Alan Dershowitz, Corbyn's gone to meetings posted by a Holocaust denier who's also a 9/11 conspiracy theorist, and has cozied up to Sheikh Raed Salah, who has been convicted for inciting violence, and Corbyn has also worked as a paid contributor to Iranian state TV.

    Frankly, Corbyn sounds like a silly leftist fruitcake. I'm not sure why he thinks drooling over Islamic terrorism is a good idea for the native British, but a certain type of wimpy leftist guy gets a visceral thrill over terrorists, and Corbyn sounds like that sort of guy.

    Corbyn's personal life is a disaster. He's been married three times, and he's been married both to a woman from Chile and one from Mexico. That's ideological marrying for you. He divorced the Chilean because he didn't want to sent his kids to a private school. Most men are sane enough not to break up their marriage for a reason that stupid. The current Mexican wife is a 'human rights lawyer,' and it's obvious Corbyn is as fanatical as Savonarola or Oliver Cromwell. Imagine Jeb Bush as a hard-core lefty and you'll have Corbyn.

    He divorced the Chilean because he didn’t want to sent his kids to a private school. Most men are sane enough not to break up their marriage for a reason that stupid.

    Not even that: a grammar (selective public) school.

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  200. Blake says:
    @Art Deco
    Au contraire! Hezbollah defends their constituency against the Zio-state’s cross-border violence.

    They do nothing of the kind. They provoke reprisals. They do this because it pleases them, not because it serves any material end.


    How many times has Israel invaded Lebanon? Three times already? And then how many times has Hezbollah invaded Israel? By my count, zero.

    Lebanon was in an anarchic state from 1975 to 1990 and the PLO took advantage of this to stage raids on Israel. Much of Lebanon was at the time occupied by two external forces: PLO brigands who were recruited out of the UNRWA camps and the Syrian military (who were present in Lebanon for 29 years). Hezbollah did not exist at the time of Operation Litani, so they weren't in the business of defending Shi'ites or anyone else. They were not consequential in 1982 (at which time the principal Shi'ite militia was al-Amal, which had scant presence in southern Lebanon). Israel and Hezbollah came to blows in 2006 because Hezbollah wanted to mix it up. Israel has not been at war with the Lebanese state since 1949. It has been at war with paramilitaries exploiting Lebanon as a staging ground.



    As far as being a “criminal organization” is concerned, Hezbollah’s only crime is that they stand in the way of ‘Greater Israel’.

    Only in your addled head. Israel has never had any territorial claims on Lebanese territory nor sought to durably occupy Lebanese territory. Their interest has been in security problems emanating from Lebanese territory.



    Come to think of it, that’s Hamas’ and Syria’s only crime too.

    Again, another fantasy. Syria has been in a state of war with Israel since 1948. That was their choice and maintaining that state of war has been their choice, as has sponsoring various and sundry organizations of brigands and their 29 year long rape of Lebanon. The country has been horribly misgoverned since 1963. Yes, normal people see the Assad mafia for what they are.

    Hamas is headquartered in Gaza, a welfare dump nobody wants. Hard to see how they're resisting a 'Greater Israel' that does not exist. Israel exists, of course, a source of unending bother to a caucus on these boards. Hamas gets its jollies digging tunnels under the border fence and launching artillery barrages against Jewish towns, so every few years Israel knocks out their military equipment and supply dumps, about which they and their advocates whine relentlessly. It's lot simpler to attempt something constructive and leave the burgesses of Sderot alone, but that's not what they wish to do.

    Your zionist propaganda narrative is blatantly an insult to anyone’s intelligence. “Israel” has no legal moral or ethical right to exist. Period.

    Hezbollah was founded after the so-called “South Lebanese army”, under the nominal leadership of the Lebanese General Lahad, whose purpose was to provide the “Israelis” with a Lebanese force under Israeli control, to subdue the population between the “Israeli” so called “border” & the Litani river & so create a buffer zone between the Zionist entity & Lebanon – in Lebanese territory. That force originally recruited many Shia soldiers, but those soldiers, sickened by Israeli atrocities against their own families, deserted in droves & many joined Amal, the militia of the Shia Lebanese community, in order to defend their own people. Shia leaders in Lebanon announced publicly that, not only would the resistance to the “iron fist” resistance to the Israelis be stepped up but that, if and when the “Israelis” finally withdrew to zionist occupied Palestine, then raids into “Israeli” territory would become a regular feature of Shia resistance. So the Israelis alienated even the Phalange forces which connived openly in its invasion of Lebanon & who were its willing partners in the Sabra & Shatilla Massacres. It turned the Shia people of the south, who were prepared passively to accept the invasion, into enemies as implacable as the Palestinians. When the war was launched in 1982 it was cynically called “Operation Peace in Galilee.” It was supposed to prevent rocket & guerrilla attacks in the Galilee area although in fact no such attacks were taking place , the PLO having strictly adhered to the previously agreed ceasefire. All that war had assured was a greater awareness in the world community of the nature of the Zionist entity & its “grand strategy” of constant expansion and ultimately led to the birth of Hizbollah in 1985.

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  201. mobi says:

    I can’t be the only one to find it a remarkable coincidence that a career member of the political establishment, anti-Brexit, former ‘minister of dirty tricks’, having been handed a mandate for Brexit that she didn’t agree with, has found a way to throw a wrench in the process – by running a campaign widely considered the most self-destructive and inept in modern British political history.

    Is this the Empire striking back?

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    • Replies: @celt darnell
    Incompetence, dear boy, incompetence.
    , @anon
    could be

    clearly the Con leadership don't want Brexit but too many of their voters do so what i think happened is the Cons were so far ahead in the polls the leadership decided they could get such a huge majority they could scupper Brexit and still ride the storm afterwards - but they massively screwed it up.

    so now the uniparty are trying to figure out a plan B
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  202. mobi says:

    Conservatives in Canada have been engaged for some time in a deliberate strategy to lure Jewish voters, money, and power away from their traditional home on the left, mostly through a very public and conspicuous display of being ‘more pro-Israel than Israel’.

    And it hasn’t been without notable success:

    http://www.cjnews.com/news/canada/can-tories-hold-on-to-jewish-voters

    It’s a truism that for decades, if not generations, Jews had supported parties of the left, mostly Liberals, and to a lesser extent, New Democrats. That seems to have changed in the last few years. Harper’s vigorous support for Israel during the 2006 war with Hezbollah and two conflicts in Gaza, as well as a pro-Israel voting record at the United Nations and its lead in walking out of the second UN anti-racism conference in 2009 (which was shaping up to be like its anti-Israel predecessor), solidified Jewish support for the Conservatives.

    Steven Slimovitch is a criminal defence lawyer in Montreal…“I have been a lifelong Liberal supporter, and I began to lose favour with the Liberal government because of their policy toward Israel and Jewish questions in general,” he said.

    Slimovitch referred to the failure to prosecute Nazi war criminals and to Canada’s voting record at the UN as factors in his decision.

    He pointed to “Mr. Harper’s overwhelming and strong backing of Israel.”

    Slimovitch, who is national counsel to B’nai Brith Canada, said Jews don’t vote as a bloc – for some, domestic issues trump concerns over support for Israel; for others, it’s the other way around.

    But there’s been a change over the years in the way Jews see the two major parties, he continued. Support for the Conservatives has grown among Jews “as people became more well off and comfortable in society.

    “The Tories were always perceived as the party of another place,” he said.

    “As time goes on and as people began to see the policy that the Conservatives put into place for Israel, things changed.”

    Gary Shapiro also supported Libman in the last election. In fact, he serves on the executive of the local Conservative riding association. But his family were strong Liberal supporters going back a couple of generations. His grandparents voted Liberal, as did his parents. He began to move away from the Liberals, whom he saw as trying to be all things to all people, and moved to the Tories, because of Harper’s “backbone, strength of character” and principled support of Israel.

    Torontonian Chani Aryeh-Bain says she’s always been a Conservative. “I like their sound economic policies. That was the main attraction.

    “When Harper came into office, I definitely liked his policies on the Middle East,” she added.

    …“The Liberals have changed and Jews have drifted away from them,” she said.

    Under Harper, the government steered a moral course on the Middle East, even if it wasn’t always popular, and she expects that to continue, regardless of who becomes the party’s next leader.

    As for Trudeau, she wishes him well. “If he fails, we all fail,” she said. But she finds him too celebrity-oriented, too much flash compared to Harper’s low-key reliability. As for his support for Israel, “I’m not convinced of it, but let’s wait and see,” she said.

    Guidy Mamann is one of those people who made the journey from left to right.

    “Like many Jews, I voted Liberal ever since I could vote. I was very skeptical about Preston Manning and the conservatives from the West and I associated Stephen Harper with that movement,” he said. But with Harper as the leader, he was persuaded to vote Tory, “for the first time in my life.”

    A Toronto immigration lawyer, Mamann said he has opposed Conservative policy on some issues related to his field, but backed them on others.

    …“I felt very comfortable with [Harper’s] hand on the wheel of the economy,” he said. In fact, that was what initially attracted him to the party. “It was only after the first [minority] term that I saw him as a defender of Israel and of a principled foreign policy, one that was not necessarily popular but was consistent with our Canadian values,” he said.

    Mamann believes those positions were based on principles, not crude electoral calculations. “Even if you don’t look at it from that position, the statements on the Middle East conflict must have cost him many more votes than it brought in,” he said.

    …Interestingly, it is one of the issues near and dear to his heart that has further distanced him from the Liberals – refugees.

    Trudeau’s announced plan to bring 25,000 Syrian refugees to Canada by the end of 2015 smacks of political opportunism, he said. The plan was conceived in haste to attract votes after a photo of a dead Syrian toddler made international headlines.

    Not enough consideration was given to resettling and absorbing the refugees, he said.

    What’s more, the policy is unfair to the tens of thousands of other refugees who were looking to make Canada their home. There are an estimated 10 to 12 million refugees around the world, Mamann said. Many have been in the queue waiting to come to Canada, and their relatives are calling him, distraught that their family members must wait while Syrians jump the queue.

    “They’ve been waiting for years, and all of a sudden, in the middle of an election campaign, based on one picture, he made a decision,” Mamann said.

    Stuart Kamenetsky is a member in good standing at Toronto’s Congregation Darchei Noam, a synagogue known in good measure for its members’ attention to social justice issues.

    Kamenetsky, who serves as chair of the synagogue’s Israel connections committee, considers himself a progressive, but notes that being right wing does not mean you cannot be an advocate for issues on human rights, the alleviation of poverty, and serve as an advocate for people with differences.

    He’s also a Tory supporter and has been since Harper became the party leader. The former prime minister, he said, was a visible friend of Israel at a time when other world leaders were not.

    Harper “did what he felt was right,” even though it likely cost him votes in the overall scheme of things. He recognized the threat posed by ISIS radicalism and made sure Canada did not avoid the issue by sitting on the sidelines.

    Kamenetsky, a professor of psychology at the University of Toronto, said he shifted his support to the Tories because of Harper’s position on Israel and foreign policy generally.

    As someone who spent his formative years in Israel and served in the Israel Defence Forces, he doesn’t believe the Liberals really understand what Israel faces. “I don’t think they get it,” he said.

    You can count Jack Berkovitz among those voters whose Liberal affiliations goes back more than a generation. Both his parents, Holocaust survivors, voted Liberal. He generally voted Liberal, too, as a young man, but that changed in recent years as he moved his vote to the Tories, in part over their position on Israel and because he saw them as the party of good government.

    Going back decades…Jewish support for the federal Tories was in the 10 to 15 per cent range, and other ethnic minorities also stayed away from the Tories because of its perception as a “race-proud, Protestant, Anglo, conservative party.” Jews, who were on the lower end of the socio-economic strata, also were sympathetic to parties that promised a greater role for the state.

    But all that changed over the years…Meanwhile, Jews improved their economic position in society, felt more integrated and saw their interests better reflected in conservative policies, he said.

    A noticeable shift to the Tories began in 2006, accelerated in 2008 and peaked in 2011, when the party received 50 per cent of the Jewish vote, he said.

    Seems pretty clear, and straight from the horse’s mouth.

    ‘Israel, Israel, and Israel’.

    But the point is – it has required next to nothing in the form of actual Canadian boots, or blood, on the ground in the form of ‘Invade the World’.

    Instead – loud, conspicuous, repeated expressions of Israel-love.

    Is this, perhaps, a bargain, all things considered?

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  203. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @Lot

    The Ashkenazi are a minority in Israel, and they’re not the same as native Europeans.
     
    So says you and your silly anti-semite version of the English language. But not most English speakers.


    The broad center – neolibs/cente-right/neocons – is reflexively pro Israel. The right wing – generally called the far right in mainstream discourse – isn’t.
     
    Steve Bannon, Nigel Farage, Jeff Sessions, Steve King, Michelle Bachman, Geert Wilders, Rev. Ian Paisley: "neolibs/cente-right/neocons."

    You: The True Conservative!!!!!!

    It’s not anti-Semitic to note this. Furthermore, common English usage follows this. English speakers typically say German Jews, Russian Jews, etc. It’s odd that you’re disputing this and calling it anti-Semitic. Do you believe native Europeans don’t have independent nationhood?

    The far right isn’t comprised of a total of 7 people. You yourself know full well that the far right is generally not pro-Israel, and you’ve been critical and complained about this.

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  204. Lot says:
    @Yak-15
    I appreciate that you made it through two whole paragraphs before mentioning something blatantly homoerotic involving swarmy men.

    Whiskey says a lot of dumb things about “white women,” tarring them all with the action of some far left and lower class minority.

    In this post, however, he limits his claims to the “Refugees Welcome” volunteer women. And there is plenty of real world evidence that ugly single white women like the idea of refugee male boyfriends.

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    • Replies: @Yak-15
    I understand the truth in Monsieur Whiskey's narrative. But he overplays his hand and seems overly obsessed with "sexy men" and "alphas" and "tingles." At this point it's hard to seperate his objective contributions from the gay vibe his writings emit.
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  205. @Anonymous
    OT

    London's lesbian police commissioner just endorsed the pundit hot take that was roundly mocked after the last London attack: https://twitter.com/ABC/status/873636522838421504


    ABC News‏ @ABC

    London Police commissioner says nationalities of eight London Bridge victims tell a proud story of city's diversity
     

    1. As Police Commissioner the city’s “diversity” is none of her business.
    2. In a capital city popular with tourists every day of the year of course there will be a diversity of nationality.
    3. What on earth makes the horrible murders of eight diverse visitors to London “a proud story”? Such an embarrassingly perverse bit of virtue signalling from this stupid woman.

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    • Replies: @anon
    for 30+ years promotion in the police has required groveling over PC

    all senior officers are products of 30+ years of groveling

    celebrating the ethnic cleansing of the original population of London is part of that groveling - they can't say the ethnically cleansed London is equally as good as the old London - they have to say it's better
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  206. Lurker says:
    @Anonymous Nephew
    "the strongly pro Palestine and anti Zionist SWP is distinguished by a more or less exclusively ethnically Jewish leadership caste."

    Tony Cliff (ne Israel Gluckstein), SWP founder, has been deceased for some 16 years. The current leader is an interesting hybrid of Brit aristo and Greek resistance fighter, and holds a professorship at KCL, which shows exactly what a threat to "the establishment" the SWP presents.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tony_Cliff

    OTOH, if you look at Wiki's 13 "Key Trotskyists" (on the right of the Cliff wiki), you'll see that 5 out of 13 were Jewish (Cliff, Frank, Ted Grant ne Isaac Blank, Lambert, Mandel), which is a pretty remarkable statistic - about 40%)

    if you look at Wiki’s 13 “Key Trotskyists” (on the right of the Cliff wiki), you’ll see that 5 out of 13 were Jewish (Cliff, Frank, Ted Grant ne Isaac Blank, Lambert, Mandel), which is a pretty remarkable statistic – about 40%)

    Or perhaps not so remarkable. ;-)

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  207. @Art Deco
    Most young Europeans and North Americans are convinced that they are the beneficiaries of unearned privilege and economic injustice and that their society needs to be deconstructed. Their Boomer and Gen-X parents are split approximately half on the issue.

    I guarantee you most young people are what they've always been (and what most adults are), which is neither knowledgeable about nor interested in public affairs except in the most idle way.

    I have a family chock-a-block with young Democratic voters. I have never heard one of them make a remark which bears any resemblance to the sentiments you describe. The most thoroughgoing leftist among them is a social worker married to a doctor. But it's all about other people's hurts and other people's privilege.

    IOW, they despise their countrymen, which is basically a projection of the attitude I described. They will vote for Open Borders, and assume they will be spared the cannibal pot. The root of this attitude is self-loathing. They do not believe white people have a right to exist.

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  208. @Bill B.

    There is no way the 93% white British electorate is going to vote in a Pakistani Muslim as PM.

     

    Not now maybe. But soon. The UK needs to implement anti-sharia (against multiple wives; low female education; purdah; free money for every child; etc.) or face oblivion.

    The Labour party will become the party of the minorities and youth in lockstep with the decline of whites. (Guidofawkes the political website has election pamphlets from Labour candidates urging Muslims to vote even if they don't believe in democracy because voting can hasten the changes they want!)

    This is a s**t academic in Huffpo UK saying, amusingly, that the fascists are totally wrong about Islamification but that Muslims are doubling every census:

    So what does the growth in the number of Muslims mean? Inevitably, the Far Right will claim we are witnessing the ‘Islamification of Britain’. More sober minded people will rightfully recognise that this is not occurring whatsoever. Muslims are still a small minority in British society, but a noticeable one. The large number of Muslim residents, most of whom are citizens who hold a British passport, are entitled to vote and pay their taxes, should be respected as a significant part of the nation who may have unique needs, but who also have a unique contribution to make to the nation.

    All the indicating factors suggest that the growth of the Muslim population is certainly not declining, is unlikely to be stabilising and if anything, is going to continue to grow in the future. By the next census Muslims may even double again and make up 10% of the population. These statistics encourage us to think more carefully about the provisions made for British Muslims and the ways in which they are an integral part of the nation.

    Follow Dr. Leon Moosavi on Twitter: www.twitter.com/Leon_Moosavi
     

    Remarkable. He declares the “fascists” (i.e. indigenous population under threat of colonisation) is wrong, and yet turns around and proves them right.

    I’ve never seen it done so quickly. Usually there’s at least a few paragraphs or pages of obfuscation between condemnation and admission…

    Nice find.

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  209. @Matra
    I think it’s very common for us Prods to see the Zionist Entity, like apartheid South Africa, as a fellow Crusader State hacking out civilisation from the barbarian wilderness.

    I think it is more reactionary than anything. Israel and South Africa fought back against terrorists the same way frustrated Ulstermen wanted to against the IRA but were prevented from doing so by London. Also, Prods noticed the same media that made excuses for the IRA also seemed sympathetic to the ANC and PLO. Sinn Fein's decision to adopt the anti-Apartheid & anti-Zionist causes reinforced the feeling amongst Protestants that white South Africa and Israel were the good guys.

    Incidentally, Sinn Fein has a history of aligning themselves with foreign causes: In Spain they support both Basque and Catalan nationalism and in the US various black and American Indian causes. Unionist political parties and activists have never been all that interested in foreign conflicts.

    Sinn Fein also got smarter as the last century wore on — they had earlier cheered on Adolf Hitler and his gang…

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    • Replies: @PV van der Byl
    In the 1920s and 1930s, the IRA even tried to come to a working agreement with the Soviet Union:

    In November 1927 an IRA army convention pledged military support for the Soviet Union in the event of an Anglo-Soviet war, and in 1930 a senior IRA officer, Seán MacBride, reported the possibility of ‘substantial’ aid from Moscow as well as the opportunity for IRA officers to receive military training there. Around this time, however, the Soviets backed away. The Soviets were happy to have the IRA spy for them, but were very wary of being drawn into the organisation’s ‘terrorist’ plans. Or, as a Soviet agent in Holland, Ignace Poretsky, complained, the IRA ‘were convinced that their own problems were the world’s most important’. The IRA’s lack of both subservience and ideological correctness made them unsuitable partners for the Soviet Union and it was time for Moscow to move on. And so ended one of the IRA’s best-kept secrets.
     
    http://www.historyireland.com/20th-century-contemporary-history/the-secret-ira-soviet-agreement-1925/
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  210. @Thea
    When the Muslims are in the majority, they may always vote labour. But the Labour politicians they vote for will not look like Blair or Corbyn.

    The U.K. may become a caliphate in our lifetime.

    Perhaps if you’re a newborn, love.

    Muslims are still some 5% of the population and still won’t be at 10% by the next census — contrary to the hyperventilating.

    They’re also unpopular with other ethnic minorities, including Hindus and Sikhs — Britain’s version of the coalition of the fringes is rather more fissiparous than America’s. That the Jews have already jumped ship is a sign of things to come.

    There’s also, particularly after the recent terrorist atrocities, growing hostility to Muslim immigration. More and more people — including very unlikely ones like Martin Amis and Morrissey — are starting to raise awkward questions. Yes, as has been shown with Katy Hopkins people who are too vocal are slapped down, but as the voices become more numerous, it’s going to start becoming a game of whack-a-mole.

    (FYI — one of the reasons Tessie was denied her majority was because of those terrorist attacks, Jeremy Corbyn was astute enough to point out that, as the former Home Secretary, the security lapses took place on her watch. A lot of right-wingers, meantime, were disgusted with May’s pathetic responses to them.)

    Add to the fact we don’t have an Ellis Island myth (i.e. PC propaganda) and that despite a serious campaign in support of it, no-one believes for a moment the claim that Britain is a “nation of immigrants.”

    Yes, the situation is serious and I think there are real dangers ahead but no, the UK ain’t going to become a caliphate in your lifetime.

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  211. @mobi
    I can't be the only one to find it a remarkable coincidence that a career member of the political establishment, anti-Brexit, former 'minister of dirty tricks', having been handed a mandate for Brexit that she didn't agree with, has found a way to throw a wrench in the process - by running a campaign widely considered the most self-destructive and inept in modern British political history.

    Is this the Empire striking back?

    Incompetence, dear boy, incompetence.

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  212. Looks like the neetsos can shut up now. Jews are the most pro-Western group in the West, moreso than even Christians, who often seek to commit suicide for supposed sins of the past. In the Trump election, no group was more supportive than Orthodox Jews. In this election, no group was more supportive of Tories and May than Jews at large. Orthodox Jews must be well over 90% then. How this happened is the real question and how we can similarly wipe out Jewish leftism in the US is another question.

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  213. Olorin says:
    @Anatoly Karlin
    Not an exit poll, just a (very big) ordinary poll.

    https://twitter.com/LordAshcroft/status/873058461696774145/

    The generational differences are insane.

    (I recall seeing another graph showing data for age groups relative to previous elections. I can't find it now, but it showed that the difference was unprecedentedly high during this election).

    Isn’t age a proxy for race in Britain these days?

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  214. helena says:
    @Maj. Kong
    The age chasm was perhaps the largest ever recorded, the surge in youth turnout is due to the bribery and the very real thought that Brexit would be vetoed by a PM Corbyn. This is a generation that has only known the EU, and has credible fears that they won't be able to live/work in the EU countries anymore. Topped off with a heavy dose of cultural Marxism.

    The argument of the remain group in Brexit was that Leave would cause an economic disaster (but the euro won't???). The Leave campaign won because they promised to spend the money the UK pays the EU, on the NHS. But that wasn't something they could deliver on, and the Conservative Party didn't run a manifesto on eliminating foreign aid and boosting the NHS.

    The Labour Manifesto stated free movement would end.
    Clegg, Salmond, both big Remain voices lost seats.
    LibDems – the party of Remain – didn’t do as well as it could have.
    Over 80% voted for a party with a Brexit policy.

    So no, the election result cannot be read as anti-Brexit.

    The British public do not understand English:

    “Leaving the EU will create a pot of money which could be spent on the NHS”

    – that is still true. No one said would and no one said all.

    The left is much better at word games and spinning than the right.

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  215. Dr Hook says:
    @Simon in London
    Oh, sure - and the result was that when I lived in working class Coventry and joined the Territorials I faced a lot of resentment from Englishmen who couldn't care less what religion I was, they just hated all of us.

    But British soldiers - English, Scottish, Welsh, Northern Irish - died in their thousands for a British government policy of containment, not to protect Ulster Protestants from the IRA. We could have protected ourselves a lot better on our own.

    “British soldiers died in their thousands in Northern Ireland”?????
    550 regulars and about 200 Ulster Defence Regiment personnel died in Northern Ireland (the UDR was the local – overwhelmingly Protestant- militia).
    Over a 35 year period.

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    • Replies: @Simon in London
    You're right 'thousands' was too many. Wikipedia claims over a thousand dead were UK security forces (presumably including RUC), from the ca 3600 total dead:

    According to Malcolm Sutton's Index of Deaths from the Conflict in Ireland:[204]

    Of those killed by British security forces:

    187 (~51.5%) were civilians
    145 (~39.9%) were members of republican paramilitaries
    18 (~4.9%) were members of loyalist paramilitaries
    13 (~3.5%) were fellow members of the British security forces

    Of those killed by republican paramilitaries:

    1080 (~52%) were members/former members of the British security forces
    723 (~35%) were civilians
    187 (~9%) were members of republican paramilitaries
    57 (~2.7%) were members of loyalist paramilitaries
    11 (~0.5%) were members of the Irish security forces

    Of those killed by loyalist paramilitaries:

    878 (~85.4%) were civilians
    94 (~9%) were members of loyalist paramilitaries
    41 (~4%) were members of republican paramilitaries
    14 (~1%) were members of the British security forces
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  216. @Dr Hook
    "British soldiers died in their thousands in Northern Ireland"?????
    550 regulars and about 200 Ulster Defence Regiment personnel died in Northern Ireland (the UDR was the local - overwhelmingly Protestant- militia).
    Over a 35 year period.

    You’re right ‘thousands’ was too many. Wikipedia claims over a thousand dead were UK security forces (presumably including RUC), from the ca 3600 total dead:

    According to Malcolm Sutton’s Index of Deaths from the Conflict in Ireland:[204]

    Of those killed by British security forces:

    187 (~51.5%) were civilians
    145 (~39.9%) were members of republican paramilitaries
    18 (~4.9%) were members of loyalist paramilitaries
    13 (~3.5%) were fellow members of the British security forces

    Of those killed by republican paramilitaries:

    1080 (~52%) were members/former members of the British security forces
    723 (~35%) were civilians
    187 (~9%) were members of republican paramilitaries
    57 (~2.7%) were members of loyalist paramilitaries
    11 (~0.5%) were members of the Irish security forces

    Of those killed by loyalist paramilitaries:

    878 (~85.4%) were civilians
    94 (~9%) were members of loyalist paramilitaries
    41 (~4%) were members of republican paramilitaries
    14 (~1%) were members of the British security forces

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  217. Gabriel M says:
    @German_reader

    the British press, like the British chatterati generally, is hostile to Israel by default.
     
    "The British press" doesn't consist of just the Guardian; there is strong pro-Israel sentiment in "conservative" publications like the Telegraph and the Spectator.

    The Telegraph went extremely anti-Israel 2010-2015 when Peter Oborne was political editor. During one of the Gaza wars, they had some weird live blog on the front page of the website for a week which just consisted of some interns trawling the web for Palestinian propaganda.

    Then when Corbyn became leader they tried to make some issue out of his comparatively mild pro-Palestinianism. In general, Corbyn seemed to dampen the enthusiasm for Palestinian nationalism among the British media because he was so obviously a loser and anything he was associated with was uncool, but now he is cool so I guess it will come back.

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    • Replies: @German_reader
    I don't know about that, when I read the Telegraph a few years ago my impression was there was a lot of pro-Israel sentiment and constant agitation for hardline positions against Iran, military interventionism etc. It's true however that Oborne is very pro-Islam and so presumably somewhat anti-Israel.
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  218. Randal says:
    @Art Deco
    LOL! If having your country invaded and occupied doesn’t count as a “legimitate beef” for you then you are not rational on the topic.

    Hezbollah do not own Lebanon, Hezbollah was not a consequential political force at the time Israel entered Lebanon in 1982, Lebanon was in an anarchic state in 1982 and south Lebanon was largely occupied by the PLO, and Israel had not had troops in Lebanon for more than 20 years when Hezbollah decided they wanted to rumble.


    As for Hamas and Hezbollah, the honest assessment is that they are legitimate popular national defence organisations for their respective peoples,

    And you fancy that's a point in favor of 'their people'.



    that have arisen in response to threats to their people.

    Actually, Hezbollah was at its inception a project of the Iranian government. Israel's never been a 'threat' to Lebanese shi'ites unless they're raiding across the border (or perhaps killing Israel's allies). The authentic rivals to Lebanon's shi'ites are to be found in their own country's confessional and factional mosaic.

    As for Hamas, if they wish to live a quiet life, they can quit with the artillery barrages and negotiate a deal with their Jewish neighbors. The latter is something they refuse to do. Well, there are benefits and costs to every course of action you take.



    You can then debate their merits vis a vis their Israeli enemies all you like, but pretending they are enemies of any other country other than to the extent that country supports their own enemy is either dishonest or ignorant, albeit understandable for Israeli partisans.

    They're pretty much enemies of everyone, and for no very good reason. They do not bother to hide it.

    As for you, there's who you fancy you are, and who you actually are.

    You seem to think blurting out a blatantly dishonest pseudo-history of Israel’s involvement in Lebanon is useful to your cause for some reason, but I’m not persuaded by any of it because I know enough to recognise its falsehoods, and any neutral reader with any interest in the issue can find out the truth in a few minutes research.

    Presumably it’s reassuring for you in some way.

    Here’s the reality, in summary: Israel invaded Lebanon in 1982 and occupied Beirut. Just as with the US invasion of Iraq, that invasion created more problems than it solved. Israel withdrew from Beirut but tried to hold on to southern Lebanon with a proxy force of collaborators, only finally admitting defeat (at the hands of Hezbollah) and pulling out in 2000 (leaving aside the further disputed occupation of the Shebaa Farms, of course)

    Regardless, the obvious reality is that Hezbollah is not a threat to anyone other than its own local rivals, who is not involved with Israel and its nasty dealings in Lebanon and Syria, and therefore the real threat to normal folk in the West are those who seek to implicate us unduly in the affairs of any of those benighted countries.

    While propagandists for Israel like yourself collectively have sufficient clout for now to keep the official story about Hezbollah in the West aligned with your partisan fantasy, you discredit yourselves further every day you try to maintain that obvious fiction as truth. In the end, it will escape your control.

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  219. Randal says:
    @Art Deco
    Antisemitism isn’t normal (in the sense you use the term, meaning commonplace).

    Among ordinary people? No. Among people who publish for a living and those in their social circles, without a doubt.


    Opposition to Israel, which is almost invariably misunderstood or misrepresented as antisemitism by jews and their sympathisers, is fairly commonplace.

    It's a country with the population of Austria and a domestic product about that of Denmark. Its military is well provisioned, but no better than Australia's, about which no one's complaining.

    It currently occupies land outside the 1949 armistice lines, which bothers people a great deal. That Israel has made five (unsuccessful) attempts to either institute local government or off-load these territories is something those bothered elect to ignore. That Israel alsoo has withdrawn it's troops from settlements where 80% of the Arab population lives is also ignored by those bothered.

    It has conflicts with various Arab paramilitary forces, which is not surprising inasmuch as the Arab paramilitaries and various free-range characters wish to kill Jews. That Jews take steps meant to prevent Arab paramilitaries from killing them is regarded with gorge-rising disgust by certain parties (among them British journalists).




    A recognition of the fundamental truth that jewish people are, like muslims, a foreign group tending to external patriotic and cultural loyalties is also not unknown and similarly misrepresented, though increasingly suppressed by the establishment and even by the state.


    There are 300,000 Jews in Britain who aren't causing any trouble at all. Come to think of it, American Jews aren't causing trouble in any systematic way, either. If there's nothing going on though, you can always work yourself into a lather meditating on the ownership of MGM and CBS ca. 1945, or perhaps on the membership of the executive corps of Lehman Brothers. Oh, and Wm. Kristol edits a magazine. And Douglas Feith took two courses from Leo Strauss. And they can buy and sell the Tennessee legislature.

    Among ordinary people? No. Among people who publish for a living and those in their social circles, without a doubt.

    No, again just like black activists endlessly trumpeting about how “racist” anyone who disagrees with them is, jewish activists like yourself endlessly mis-categorise disagreement with your positions or disapproval of your group’s activities as “anti-Semitism”.

    There’s nothing particularly special or difficult to understand about it.

    There are 300,000 Jews in Britain who aren’t causing any trouble at all. Come to think of it, American Jews aren’t causing trouble in any systematic way, either.

    Both groups certainly are causing problems, because just as with other groups that have foreign national and religious loyalties, their interests are not always aligned with those of their host nations. In Britain, jewish lobby groups push to distort our foreign policy in the interests of Israel and for censorship of our speech. The former is understandable and legitimate up to a point, the latter not so much. Same in the US as far as I can see, though they are constrained by the First Amendment in how far they can push the restrictions they’d like to see on freedom of speech, for now.

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    • Replies: @Art Deco
    jewish activists like yourself endlessly mis-categorise disagreement with your positions or disapproval of your group’s activities as “anti-Semitism”.

    I haven't had any involvement in politics in nearly 30 years and at the time it consisted of carrying petitions in accordance with New York election law, etc. So, unless sticking a stiletto into cranks and clowns on the internet counts as 'activism', I don't qualify as an 'activist'.

    No one knows you're a pig on the internet, of course, so none of that matters. They do know something of what you think about the world, provided you keep the clown nose off. It's pretty amusing taking an inventory of the rancid things people take for granted as well as the rancid fictions people subscribe to while insisting to you that they're just paragons of decency and haven't got it in for anyone. You're providing a rich vein.

    I'm sorry for anyone who is stuck listening to you in the staff lounge at work.
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  220. anon says: • Disclaimer
    @Anonymous
    Another point is that the indigenous, ethnic English are, literally, a dying race.
    There is no doubt that deaths surpass births by a surprising degree amongst the English. The effect is masked in the rather bland statistics due to the magnitude of immigration and birth rate of the immigrant population.
    A big proportion of non replaced die-off must be Conservative voters.

    A big proportion of non replaced die-off must be Conservative voters.

    yes but on the other hand there’s also a lot of older blindly loyal Labour voters whose loyalty was formed in the decades when the Labour party wasn’t their deadly enemy.

    So overall yes the birth-death ratio is as much against the Cons as immigration – the only upside is that within what’s left of wwc society the pro-Labour balance is declining as dramatically.

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    • Replies: @Anonymous
    No, because the freshly minted blacks/pakis are reliable Labour voters.
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  221. anon says: • Disclaimer
    @Art Deco
    Antisemitism isn’t normal (in the sense you use the term, meaning commonplace).

    Among ordinary people? No. Among people who publish for a living and those in their social circles, without a doubt.


    Opposition to Israel, which is almost invariably misunderstood or misrepresented as antisemitism by jews and their sympathisers, is fairly commonplace.

    It's a country with the population of Austria and a domestic product about that of Denmark. Its military is well provisioned, but no better than Australia's, about which no one's complaining.

    It currently occupies land outside the 1949 armistice lines, which bothers people a great deal. That Israel has made five (unsuccessful) attempts to either institute local government or off-load these territories is something those bothered elect to ignore. That Israel alsoo has withdrawn it's troops from settlements where 80% of the Arab population lives is also ignored by those bothered.

    It has conflicts with various Arab paramilitary forces, which is not surprising inasmuch as the Arab paramilitaries and various free-range characters wish to kill Jews. That Jews take steps meant to prevent Arab paramilitaries from killing them is regarded with gorge-rising disgust by certain parties (among them British journalists).




    A recognition of the fundamental truth that jewish people are, like muslims, a foreign group tending to external patriotic and cultural loyalties is also not unknown and similarly misrepresented, though increasingly suppressed by the establishment and even by the state.


    There are 300,000 Jews in Britain who aren't causing any trouble at all. Come to think of it, American Jews aren't causing trouble in any systematic way, either. If there's nothing going on though, you can always work yourself into a lather meditating on the ownership of MGM and CBS ca. 1945, or perhaps on the membership of the executive corps of Lehman Brothers. Oh, and Wm. Kristol edits a magazine. And Douglas Feith took two courses from Leo Strauss. And they can buy and sell the Tennessee legislature.

    you’re right – the dominant anti-nationalist, anti-colonialist culture created by cultural Marxists in the Anglosphere education system after they were chased out of continental Europe in the 1930s is now being applied to Israel cos a lot of Anglos are genetically wired up to have that thing where (in public at least) they have to be morally consistent or it messes their head up.

    doh!

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    • Replies: @Art Deco
    you’re right – the dominant anti-nationalist, anti-colonialist culture created by cultural Marxists i

    You can also work yourself into a lather dreaming of fanciful histories laden with nonsense terms ('cultural Marxist') and attribute the whole to your favorite object of contempt.
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  222. anon says: • Disclaimer
    @Anonymous
    The Conservatives are really between a rock and a hard place.

    Due to Britain's rapidly changing demographics, in order to win, they need to attract a substantial chunk of the black/brown vote, yet on the other hand, any pandering to black/browns only repels their core voter base.
    No doubt Theresa May's only real manifesto 'goody' - ie to crackdown on immigration as far as possible, energized a huge Labour black/brown vote.
    Evidently the threat of not be able to import your cousin/spouse/granny etc for the express purpose of sucking on the British taxpayer teat is a powerful motivator.

    Due to Britain’s rapidly changing demographics, in order to win, they need to attract a substantial chunk of the black/brown vote

    obvious GOPe nonsense

    the only way to not put off (most) non-white immigrants is to allow endless chain migration and the Cons will always get a minority of an imported minimum wage immigrant vote

    obviously

    the Cons main problem, like GOPe, is their internal fifth column of open borders lobbyists

    also, the other best way to appeal to some immigrant groups (the ones who come from countries with a long history of conflict with Muslims) is to halt Muslim immigration – it’s partly why Indians have been slowly sliding to the Cons.

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    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Sorry, but some people massively underestimate the sheer *speed and magnitude* of ethnic displacement and replacement in the UK.
    In a word, it is more or less *unprecedented* anywhere in the world, even comparing to that notorious melting pots of melting pots, Ellis Island era America of 1880 - 1920.

    No need to remind you that this entirely down to the Economist/Blair government, or even to remind you that the Tories have done sweet Fanny Adams in making a any sort of dent in the annual deluge in the past 7 years of Tory rule.

    The facts are these. The UK will *inevitably* be a white minority nation around about 2050 - 2060 - no further away in time than the Miners' Strike is behind us.
    By the 2030s - 2040s an actual majority of births in the UK will be no white - count on it.

    It's very hard to see the Tories ever winning big parliamentary majorities again in the space of a single generation.
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  223. anon says: • Disclaimer
    @Crowstep
    One point worth noting in regards to British Jews is that they are basically an invisible minority. There are plenty of Jews in public life, but they are very well assimilated and intermarry a lot, to the extent that the secular Ashkenazi have all but disappeared as a distinct ethnic group. In the 19th/20th century many of them anglicised their names (consider actor Andrew Garfield, the family name was originally Garfinkel).

    Most British people, if asked to name famous Jews, would struggle. Although many Jewish or part Jewish public figures are extremely well-known (Steven Fry, Ed Miliband, Natasha Kaplinsky, Alan Sugar and so on).

    There are plenty of Jews in public life, but they are very well assimilated and intermarry a lot, to the extent that the secular Ashkenazi have all but disappeared as a distinct ethnic group.

    It’s certainly true that almost no one in Britain (apart from most immigrants) realizes that Jews are an active political faction that clearly look out for their group interests as a group – and even if they don’t always agree on all the details of what those interests are e.g. Israel, they all seem to agree that turning the native population into a minority is good for them.

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  224. @Anonymous
    Another point is that the indigenous, ethnic English are, literally, a dying race.
    There is no doubt that deaths surpass births by a surprising degree amongst the English. The effect is masked in the rather bland statistics due to the magnitude of immigration and birth rate of the immigrant population.
    A big proportion of non replaced die-off must be Conservative voters.

    Another point is that the indigenous, ethnic English are, literally, a dying race.
    There is no doubt that deaths surpass births by a surprising degree amongst the English.

    So the Earth with 7.5 billion, which was 5 billion in 1987, must forever increase, and if any nation reaches a state of population equalibrium, or a state of gradual decrease, they are a “dying race”?

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    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Surely, any mathematical function, yes, take population versus time as a mathematical function in this instance, which continues to show inexorable decline year-on-year, eventually will 'tend to zero', as the jargon goes.
    Surely, 'zero' means 'not existing', surely 'not existing' in the biological context means 'dead'.
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  225. anon says: • Disclaimer
    @Thea
    When the Muslims are in the majority, they may always vote labour. But the Labour politicians they vote for will not look like Blair or Corbyn.

    The U.K. may become a caliphate in our lifetime.

    yes – as they become dominant in any particular city or region they will gradually replace the Leftist traitors who imported them to change the electorate – and eventually all the issues those Leftists imported those extra votes to impose – homosexual rights, feminism etc will be reversed.

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  226. anon says: • Disclaimer
    @rw95
    You know that the 40% of the youth vote that Le Pen received was 40% of the youth WHO BOTHERED TO SHOW UP AND VOTE, and is hardly representative of the French youth as a whole, right?

    you know you’re triggered by half the white French youth voting Le Pen right?

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    • Replies: @rw95
    You know this is not an argument, and you have not provided sources that either refute my claims or support yours, right?
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  227. anon says: • Disclaimer
    @snorlax
    Trump should've nominated Sessions for Homeland Security and a tough-as-nails, no-compromises prosecutor (preferably Giuliani) for AG.

    Sessions is doing great in his quietly stealth way.

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  228. anon says: • Disclaimer
    @Blake
    Unsure how these demographics were done as one is just handed a paper at the polling station with the list of candidates on and you put an X next to the candidate of your choice. No name is needed. Just an X.

    polling companies ask people how they voted afterwards – so not 100% accurate maybe but the closest we have

    unlike the states the UK still pretends ethnicity isn’t the most relevant factor because liberals are still pretending to themselves the multicult they created doesn’t lead to ethnic balkanization and tribalism even though it clearly does…

    cos genetics is true and the boassian blank slate was a cultural marxist lie developed to change US immigration policy.

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  229. anon says: • Disclaimer
    @mobi
    I can't be the only one to find it a remarkable coincidence that a career member of the political establishment, anti-Brexit, former 'minister of dirty tricks', having been handed a mandate for Brexit that she didn't agree with, has found a way to throw a wrench in the process - by running a campaign widely considered the most self-destructive and inept in modern British political history.

    Is this the Empire striking back?

    could be

    clearly the Con leadership don’t want Brexit but too many of their voters do so what i think happened is the Cons were so far ahead in the polls the leadership decided they could get such a huge majority they could scupper Brexit and still ride the storm afterwards – but they massively screwed it up.

    so now the uniparty are trying to figure out a plan B

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  230. anon says: • Disclaimer
    @englishmike
    1. As Police Commissioner the city's "diversity" is none of her business.
    2. In a capital city popular with tourists every day of the year of course there will be a diversity of nationality.
    3. What on earth makes the horrible murders of eight diverse visitors to London "a proud story"? Such an embarrassingly perverse bit of virtue signalling from this stupid woman.

    for 30+ years promotion in the police has required groveling over PC

    all senior officers are products of 30+ years of groveling

    celebrating the ethnic cleansing of the original population of London is part of that groveling – they can’t say the ethnically cleansed London is equally as good as the old London – they have to say it’s better

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  231. rw95 says:
    @anon
    you know you're triggered by half the white French youth voting Le Pen right?

    You know this is not an argument, and you have not provided sources that either refute my claims or support yours, right?

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    • Replies: @anon
    yeah but we both know it triggers you so i don't need to
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  232. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @anon

    A big proportion of non replaced die-off must be Conservative voters.
     
    yes but on the other hand there's also a lot of older blindly loyal Labour voters whose loyalty was formed in the decades when the Labour party wasn't their deadly enemy.

    So overall yes the birth-death ratio is as much against the Cons as immigration - the only upside is that within what's left of wwc society the pro-Labour balance is declining as dramatically.

    No, because the freshly minted blacks/pakis are reliable Labour voters.

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    • Replies: @anon
    yes - because i long ago lost hope the deliberate destruction of the West through opening the borders will be settled peacefully so the critical factor is what happens within the white population

    so older white people who are blindly loyal to the Leftist parties of their youth (before they became anti-white) are a road block

    France is an example where a far more bigly percentage of young people voted for Le Pen than elderly people - so yes the ethnic balance will get worse but white survival is not dependent on that; it's dependent on the percentage of white people who are red-pilled.
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  233. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @anon

    Due to Britain’s rapidly changing demographics, in order to win, they need to attract a substantial chunk of the black/brown vote
     
    obvious GOPe nonsense

    the only way to not put off (most) non-white immigrants is to allow endless chain migration and the Cons will always get a minority of an imported minimum wage immigrant vote

    obviously

    the Cons main problem, like GOPe, is their internal fifth column of open borders lobbyists

    also, the other best way to appeal to some immigrant groups (the ones who come from countries with a long history of conflict with Muslims) is to halt Muslim immigration - it's partly why Indians have been slowly sliding to the Cons.

    Sorry, but some people massively underestimate the sheer *speed and magnitude* of ethnic displacement and replacement in the UK.
    In a word, it is more or less *unprecedented* anywhere in the world, even comparing to that notorious melting pots of melting pots, Ellis Island era America of 1880 – 1920.

    No need to remind you that this entirely down to the Economist/Blair government, or even to remind you that the Tories have done sweet Fanny Adams in making a any sort of dent in the annual deluge in the past 7 years of Tory rule.

    The facts are these. The UK will *inevitably* be a white minority nation around about 2050 – 2060 – no further away in time than the Miners’ Strike is behind us.
    By the 2030s – 2040s an actual majority of births in the UK will be no white – count on it.

    It’s very hard to see the Tories ever winning big parliamentary majorities again in the space of a single generation.

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    • Replies: @anon

    The facts are these. The UK will *inevitably* be a white minority nation around about 2050 – 2060
     
    the facts are GOPe/Tory will only ever get a minority of immigrant voters so every million more is a step closer to being permanently locked out of govt. like California

    obviously

    this particular piece of GOPe-like open borders propaganda is the stupidest

    if immigrants are likely to not like parties that oppose immigration then don't let them immigrate in the first place - or at least be very selective so the majority are above average income and don't come from places with massive extended families
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  234. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @Hippopotamusdrome


    Another point is that the indigenous, ethnic English are, literally, a dying race.
    There is no doubt that deaths surpass births by a surprising degree amongst the English.

     

    So the Earth with 7.5 billion, which was 5 billion in 1987, must forever increase, and if any nation reaches a state of population equalibrium, or a state of gradual decrease, they are a "dying race"?

    Surely, any mathematical function, yes, take population versus time as a mathematical function in this instance, which continues to show inexorable decline year-on-year, eventually will ‘tend to zero’, as the jargon goes.
    Surely, ‘zero’ means ‘not existing’, surely ‘not existing’ in the biological context means ‘dead’.

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    • Replies: @Hippopotamusdrome
    As population decreases, wages increase and housing costs decrease. At some point these factors will result in people being able to afford larger families.
    , @AP
    Except it won't. You will be left with the core reproductive part of the population, which will then slowly expand.* As long as you don't get swamped by foreigners during the period when the population has reached its low point.

    *In America, this would be Mormons, Amish, Hasids, perhaps some traditional Catholic subgroup. These population ware expanding and will continue to expand even if everyone else (theoretically) is reduced to zero.

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  235. anon says: • Disclaimer
    @rw95
    You know this is not an argument, and you have not provided sources that either refute my claims or support yours, right?

    yeah but we both know it triggers you so i don’t need to

    Read More
    • Replies: @rw95
    http://www.unz.com/akarlin/france-and-false-front/
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  236. anon says: • Disclaimer
    @Anonymous
    No, because the freshly minted blacks/pakis are reliable Labour voters.

    yes – because i long ago lost hope the deliberate destruction of the West through opening the borders will be settled peacefully so the critical factor is what happens within the white population

    so older white people who are blindly loyal to the Leftist parties of their youth (before they became anti-white) are a road block

    France is an example where a far more bigly percentage of young people voted for Le Pen than elderly people – so yes the ethnic balance will get worse but white survival is not dependent on that; it’s dependent on the percentage of white people who are red-pilled.

    Read More
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  237. Art Deco says:
    @anon
    you're right - the dominant anti-nationalist, anti-colonialist culture created by cultural Marxists in the Anglosphere education system after they were chased out of continental Europe in the 1930s is now being applied to Israel cos a lot of Anglos are genetically wired up to have that thing where (in public at least) they have to be morally consistent or it messes their head up.

    doh!

    you’re right – the dominant anti-nationalist, anti-colonialist culture created by cultural Marxists i

    You can also work yourself into a lather dreaming of fanciful histories laden with nonsense terms (‘cultural Marxist’) and attribute the whole to your favorite object of contempt.

    Read More
    • Replies: @anon
    just pointing out that extreme paranoia often becomes self-fulfilling
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  238. Art Deco says:
    @Opinionator
    That Israel has made five (unsuccessful) attempts to either institute local government or off-load these territories is something those bothered elect to ignore.

    Please post for us with a citation a single offer by Israel to relinquish the West Bank.

    Please post for us with a citation a single offer by Israel to relinquish the West Bank.

    Offers have been made twice, by Ehud Barak in 2000 and Ehud Olmert in 2008.

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    • Replies: @Opinionator
    "Offers" is quite vague. And no citation? Please post the details with citation(s). Or just the citation(s) and I'll read the details there on my own. Primary sources are preferred and would seem to be particularly appropriate here. Thank you.
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  239. Art Deco says:
    @Randal

    Among ordinary people? No. Among people who publish for a living and those in their social circles, without a doubt.
     
    No, again just like black activists endlessly trumpeting about how "racist" anyone who disagrees with them is, jewish activists like yourself endlessly mis-categorise disagreement with your positions or disapproval of your group's activities as "anti-Semitism".

    There's nothing particularly special or difficult to understand about it.

    There are 300,000 Jews in Britain who aren’t causing any trouble at all. Come to think of it, American Jews aren’t causing trouble in any systematic way, either.
     
    Both groups certainly are causing problems, because just as with other groups that have foreign national and religious loyalties, their interests are not always aligned with those of their host nations. In Britain, jewish lobby groups push to distort our foreign policy in the interests of Israel and for censorship of our speech. The former is understandable and legitimate up to a point, the latter not so much. Same in the US as far as I can see, though they are constrained by the First Amendment in how far they can push the restrictions they'd like to see on freedom of speech, for now.

    jewish activists like yourself endlessly mis-categorise disagreement with your positions or disapproval of your group’s activities as “anti-Semitism”.

    I haven’t had any involvement in politics in nearly 30 years and at the time it consisted of carrying petitions in accordance with New York election law, etc. So, unless sticking a stiletto into cranks and clowns on the internet counts as ‘activism’, I don’t qualify as an ‘activist’.

    No one knows you’re a pig on the internet, of course, so none of that matters. They do know something of what you think about the world, provided you keep the clown nose off. It’s pretty amusing taking an inventory of the rancid things people take for granted as well as the rancid fictions people subscribe to while insisting to you that they’re just paragons of decency and haven’t got it in for anyone. You’re providing a rich vein.

    I’m sorry for anyone who is stuck listening to you in the staff lounge at work.

    Read More
    • Agree: Johann Ricke
    • Troll: German_reader
    • Replies: @Kyle McKenna
    Again, you have offered what's known as the ad hominem fallacy. Well done!
    , @Randal
    Good that we've established you have no grownup answer on the points at issue, anyway.
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  240. @celt darnell
    Sinn Fein also got smarter as the last century wore on -- they had earlier cheered on Adolf Hitler and his gang...

    In the 1920s and 1930s, the IRA even tried to come to a working agreement with the Soviet Union:

    In November 1927 an IRA army convention pledged military support for the Soviet Union in the event of an Anglo-Soviet war, and in 1930 a senior IRA officer, Seán MacBride, reported the possibility of ‘substantial’ aid from Moscow as well as the opportunity for IRA officers to receive military training there. Around this time, however, the Soviets backed away. The Soviets were happy to have the IRA spy for them, but were very wary of being drawn into the organisation’s ‘terrorist’ plans. Or, as a Soviet agent in Holland, Ignace Poretsky, complained, the IRA ‘were convinced that their own problems were the world’s most important’. The IRA’s lack of both subservience and ideological correctness made them unsuitable partners for the Soviet Union and it was time for Moscow to move on. And so ended one of the IRA’s best-kept secrets.

    http://www.historyireland.com/20th-century-contemporary-history/the-secret-ira-soviet-agreement-1925/

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  241. anon says: • Disclaimer
    @Anonymous
    Sorry, but some people massively underestimate the sheer *speed and magnitude* of ethnic displacement and replacement in the UK.
    In a word, it is more or less *unprecedented* anywhere in the world, even comparing to that notorious melting pots of melting pots, Ellis Island era America of 1880 - 1920.

    No need to remind you that this entirely down to the Economist/Blair government, or even to remind you that the Tories have done sweet Fanny Adams in making a any sort of dent in the annual deluge in the past 7 years of Tory rule.

    The facts are these. The UK will *inevitably* be a white minority nation around about 2050 - 2060 - no further away in time than the Miners' Strike is behind us.
    By the 2030s - 2040s an actual majority of births in the UK will be no white - count on it.

    It's very hard to see the Tories ever winning big parliamentary majorities again in the space of a single generation.

    The facts are these. The UK will *inevitably* be a white minority nation around about 2050 – 2060

    the facts are GOPe/Tory will only ever get a minority of immigrant voters so every million more is a step closer to being permanently locked out of govt. like California

    obviously

    this particular piece of GOPe-like open borders propaganda is the stupidest

    if immigrants are likely to not like parties that oppose immigration then don’t let them immigrate in the first place – or at least be very selective so the majority are above average income and don’t come from places with massive extended families

    Read More
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  242. anon says: • Disclaimer
    @Art Deco
    you’re right – the dominant anti-nationalist, anti-colonialist culture created by cultural Marxists i

    You can also work yourself into a lather dreaming of fanciful histories laden with nonsense terms ('cultural Marxist') and attribute the whole to your favorite object of contempt.

    just pointing out that extreme paranoia often becomes self-fulfilling

    Read More
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  243. rw95 says:
    @anon
    yeah but we both know it triggers you so i don't need to
    Read More
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  244. @Gabriel M
    The Telegraph went extremely anti-Israel 2010-2015 when Peter Oborne was political editor. During one of the Gaza wars, they had some weird live blog on the front page of the website for a week which just consisted of some interns trawling the web for Palestinian propaganda.

    Then when Corbyn became leader they tried to make some issue out of his comparatively mild pro-Palestinianism. In general, Corbyn seemed to dampen the enthusiasm for Palestinian nationalism among the British media because he was so obviously a loser and anything he was associated with was uncool, but now he is cool so I guess it will come back.

    I don’t know about that, when I read the Telegraph a few years ago my impression was there was a lot of pro-Israel sentiment and constant agitation for hardline positions against Iran, military interventionism etc. It’s true however that Oborne is very pro-Islam and so presumably somewhat anti-Israel.

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    • Replies: @Gabriel M
    Lots of people favor interventionism in various parts of the world (and, in particular, regarding taking sides between secularists and Islamists and/or Shias and Sunnis) for reasons unrelated to Israel. Just because you insist that the only reason anyone might have opinions different from you is that they are secretly motivated by Israeli interests, doesn't actually make it so.

    Dolt rightists develop powerful emotional attachments to various groups of goons, e.g. in the Syrian civil war, based on who they imagine is more likely to stick it to the Jews, but this is not how other people approach matters.

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  245. @Mr. Anon

    It’s doubtful anyone at the New York Times gives a rip about Israel....
     
    Sure, David Brooks, Thomas Friedman, Nicholas Kristof, Roger Cohen.................they care nothing at all about Israel. Israel is a matter of complete indifference to the staff of the New York Times.

    Do you even read what you write? Does anybody?

    I believe Kristof is actually not Jewish. Whether he is or is not, his writings on Israel appear to be pro-two-state-solution:

    https://www.google.com/#q=Nicholas+Kristof+Israel&start=0

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    • Replies: @Art Deco
    his writings on Israel seem to be pro-two-state-solution:

    Does he also favor cheap air fares to be achieved by the suspension of gravity?

    A two-state solution is a nice idea. It has several impediments: roughly 1/3 of the Arab population on the West Bank and Gaza don't want it and another 1/3 insist that a non-negotiable component of any deal is that a fuzzily-defined 7-digit population of Arabs be given a franchise to settle in Israel at their discretion. Another impediment is that the Jews never quite trusted the Arabs and after the fiasco of the Oslo process, it will be a generation before a critical mass ever trust them again.
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  246. Art Deco says:
    @James Kabala
    I believe Kristof is actually not Jewish. Whether he is or is not, his writings on Israel appear to be pro-two-state-solution:

    https://www.google.com/#q=Nicholas+Kristof+Israel&start=0

    his writings on Israel seem to be pro-two-state-solution:

    Does he also favor cheap air fares to be achieved by the suspension of gravity?

    A two-state solution is a nice idea. It has several impediments: roughly 1/3 of the Arab population on the West Bank and Gaza don’t want it and another 1/3 insist that a non-negotiable component of any deal is that a fuzzily-defined 7-digit population of Arabs be given a franchise to settle in Israel at their discretion. Another impediment is that the Jews never quite trusted the Arabs and after the fiasco of the Oslo process, it will be a generation before a critical mass ever trust them again.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    I'm waiting for somebody to propose a three-state solution.

    Oh, wait… I just did.

    The only thing both sides have in common us everybody despises the Christians.
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  247. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer

    Read More
    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    The graph on the right looks like a military decoration, while the one on the left is more like a rainbow flag.
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  248. LondonBob says:

    Problem is young people are far more likely to have gone to university so not a great measure.

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  249. two fairly Jewish constituencies in the London suburbs, Finchley & Golders Green

    “As British as Finchley”?

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  250. @Art Deco
    his writings on Israel seem to be pro-two-state-solution:

    Does he also favor cheap air fares to be achieved by the suspension of gravity?

    A two-state solution is a nice idea. It has several impediments: roughly 1/3 of the Arab population on the West Bank and Gaza don't want it and another 1/3 insist that a non-negotiable component of any deal is that a fuzzily-defined 7-digit population of Arabs be given a franchise to settle in Israel at their discretion. Another impediment is that the Jews never quite trusted the Arabs and after the fiasco of the Oslo process, it will be a generation before a critical mass ever trust them again.

    I’m waiting for somebody to propose a three-state solution.

    Oh, wait… I just did.

    The only thing both sides have in common us everybody despises the Christians.

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  251. @Anonymous
    https://twitter.com/owolade14/status/874695441027407873

    The graph on the right looks like a military decoration, while the one on the left is more like a rainbow flag.

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  252. Kyle McKenna [AKA "Mika-Non"] says:
    @Art Deco
    jewish activists like yourself endlessly mis-categorise disagreement with your positions or disapproval of your group’s activities as “anti-Semitism”.

    I haven't had any involvement in politics in nearly 30 years and at the time it consisted of carrying petitions in accordance with New York election law, etc. So, unless sticking a stiletto into cranks and clowns on the internet counts as 'activism', I don't qualify as an 'activist'.

    No one knows you're a pig on the internet, of course, so none of that matters. They do know something of what you think about the world, provided you keep the clown nose off. It's pretty amusing taking an inventory of the rancid things people take for granted as well as the rancid fictions people subscribe to while insisting to you that they're just paragons of decency and haven't got it in for anyone. You're providing a rich vein.

    I'm sorry for anyone who is stuck listening to you in the staff lounge at work.

    Again, you have offered what’s known as the ad hominem fallacy. Well done!

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    • Replies: @Art Deco
    The term 'ad hominem' fallacy does not mean what you fancy it means. For starters, there were no issues under discussion in that comment.
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  253. Kyle McKenna [AKA "Mika-Non"] says:
    @Art Deco
    Antisemitism isn’t normal (in the sense you use the term, meaning commonplace).

    Among ordinary people? No. Among people who publish for a living and those in their social circles, without a doubt.


    Opposition to Israel, which is almost invariably misunderstood or misrepresented as antisemitism by jews and their sympathisers, is fairly commonplace.

    It's a country with the population of Austria and a domestic product about that of Denmark. Its military is well provisioned, but no better than Australia's, about which no one's complaining.

    It currently occupies land outside the 1949 armistice lines, which bothers people a great deal. That Israel has made five (unsuccessful) attempts to either institute local government or off-load these territories is something those bothered elect to ignore. That Israel alsoo has withdrawn it's troops from settlements where 80% of the Arab population lives is also ignored by those bothered.

    It has conflicts with various Arab paramilitary forces, which is not surprising inasmuch as the Arab paramilitaries and various free-range characters wish to kill Jews. That Jews take steps meant to prevent Arab paramilitaries from killing them is regarded with gorge-rising disgust by certain parties (among them British journalists).




    A recognition of the fundamental truth that jewish people are, like muslims, a foreign group tending to external patriotic and cultural loyalties is also not unknown and similarly misrepresented, though increasingly suppressed by the establishment and even by the state.


    There are 300,000 Jews in Britain who aren't causing any trouble at all. Come to think of it, American Jews aren't causing trouble in any systematic way, either. If there's nothing going on though, you can always work yourself into a lather meditating on the ownership of MGM and CBS ca. 1945, or perhaps on the membership of the executive corps of Lehman Brothers. Oh, and Wm. Kristol edits a magazine. And Douglas Feith took two courses from Leo Strauss. And they can buy and sell the Tennessee legislature.

    American Jews aren’t causing trouble in any systematic way

    Funny you should put it that way, since ‘systematic’ may indeed be the perfect word for the ‘trouble’ ‘American Jews’ are causing.

    Since, after all, the system is ‘owned’ lock, stock, and barrel.

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  254. @Anonymous
    Surely, any mathematical function, yes, take population versus time as a mathematical function in this instance, which continues to show inexorable decline year-on-year, eventually will 'tend to zero', as the jargon goes.
    Surely, 'zero' means 'not existing', surely 'not existing' in the biological context means 'dead'.

    As population decreases, wages increase and housing costs decrease. At some point these factors will result in people being able to afford larger families.

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  255. Art Deco says:
    @Simon in London
    "After decades of the English spilling so much blood and treasure for the largely thankless task of defending the Loyalists, perhaps just perhaps, they might give back something worthwhile in return."

    The English have never intervened in Ulster to protect the Loyalists - not even at the Siege of Derry (where I suspect I had more ancestors among the besiegers than the besieged). Military intervention in 1969 was to protect the Catholics/Nationalists from the Protestants/Unionists. There was no credible military threat to the Stormont government, and it took English/Westminster military intervention to energise the IRA and turn them into a credible killing force, because (for one reason) only British military intervention could give them the cover to embark on a large scale terror campaign without fear of retaliatory ethnic cleansing.

    It's remotely conceivable that absent any mainland intervention, Charles Haughey's Republic of Ireland could have militarily mobilised, defeated Stormont and imposed a unified Ireland. But that was a war the Republic certainly did not wish to fight if they could possibly help it - most Irish south of the Nine Counties traditionally see us Northerners as crazy dour violent idiots, best avoided - and that opinion goes for Catholic & Protestant Ulster folk alike.

    It’s remotely conceivable that absent any mainland intervention, Charles Haughey’s Republic of Ireland could have militarily mobilised, defeated Stormont and imposed a unified Ireland.

    Haughey was not the prime minister in 1969, the more pacific Jack Lynch was. The midpoint of Haughey’s tenure was nearly 20 years later. Since Harold Wilson’s government sent troops to Ulster, it’s more than remotely conceivable that any attempt by the Irish military to impose a solution would have led to them getting their clock cleaned by the British Army.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    That idyll, which was Britain in the sixties, - full employment, rising living standards, 'cultural' explosion - more or less died at the same point at which the first British soldier stepped foot in Ulster.
    , @Simon in London
    I'll restate it for you.

    Given the following conditions:

    1. Charles Haughey in power in Ireland
    2. No mainland British military deployment in Northern Ireland
    3. A sectarian conflict in Northern Ireland
    4. Irish Republic mobilises and invades Northern Ireland
    5. Still no mainland British military deployment in Northern Ireland

    It's remotely conceivable that a militarily mobilised 26-county Dublin regime could have conquered a militarily mobilised 6-county Stormont regime and forcibly incorporated Northern Ireland into a unified Ireland. Population wise it would be about 3.5 million Catholic/Nationalist vs 1 million Protestant/Loyalist, which fits within the usual 3-1 ratio you typically need for military conquest where the populations are comparably fierce, skilled & effective. In general the North population (both Nationalist & Unionist) are a bit more fierce/martial than the South, but I don't think the disparity is enough to make conquest impossible. The American Civil War had a similar disparity, ca 7 million white Southerners vs ca 25 million Northerners I believe, South somewhat more martial, and the North won eventually.

    Obviously this is speculation bordering on fantasy, it's almost inconceivable Westminster would not have intervened at least as 'peacekeepers' in the event of a Republic invasion of Northern Ireland.
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  256. Randal says:
    @Art Deco
    jewish activists like yourself endlessly mis-categorise disagreement with your positions or disapproval of your group’s activities as “anti-Semitism”.

    I haven't had any involvement in politics in nearly 30 years and at the time it consisted of carrying petitions in accordance with New York election law, etc. So, unless sticking a stiletto into cranks and clowns on the internet counts as 'activism', I don't qualify as an 'activist'.

    No one knows you're a pig on the internet, of course, so none of that matters. They do know something of what you think about the world, provided you keep the clown nose off. It's pretty amusing taking an inventory of the rancid things people take for granted as well as the rancid fictions people subscribe to while insisting to you that they're just paragons of decency and haven't got it in for anyone. You're providing a rich vein.

    I'm sorry for anyone who is stuck listening to you in the staff lounge at work.

    Good that we’ve established you have no grownup answer on the points at issue, anyway.

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    • Replies: @Art Deco
    Good that we’ve established you have no grownup answer on the points at issue, anyway.

    Your opening contentions have no demonstrable reality outside your imagination. I could tell you to put up or shut up. The task of doing either appears to be quite challenging for you.
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  257. The obligatory entertaining and depressing radical leftist reaction when a Conservative wins an election:

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  258. The parallel between Northern Ireland and Rhodesia would have been on everybody’s minds in the mid-late 1960s. If the British were unwilling to support the Rhodesians it was reasonable to assume they would refuse to support the Ulstermen. Indeed Wilson later came out as an advocate of Irish unity. If Labour had won the 1970 election you would probably have seen a withdrawal of British troops from Ireland and refusal to intervene against an invasion/liberation by the South.

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    • Replies: @Art Deco
    The parallel between Northern Ireland and Rhodesia would have been on everybody’s minds in the mid-late 1960s. If the British were unwilling to support the Rhodesians

    I doubt it. Rhodesia was 7,500 miles away, had never been an integral part of the United Kingdom, was in formal rebellion from 1965 to 1979, and consisted of 270,000 Brits attempting to rule a population of 6 million Ndebele and Shona-speakers.
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  259. AP says:
    @Anonymous
    Surely, any mathematical function, yes, take population versus time as a mathematical function in this instance, which continues to show inexorable decline year-on-year, eventually will 'tend to zero', as the jargon goes.
    Surely, 'zero' means 'not existing', surely 'not existing' in the biological context means 'dead'.

    Except it won’t. You will be left with the core reproductive part of the population, which will then slowly expand.* As long as you don’t get swamped by foreigners during the period when the population has reached its low point.

    *In America, this would be Mormons, Amish, Hasids, perhaps some traditional Catholic subgroup. These population ware expanding and will continue to expand even if everyone else (theoretically) is reduced to zero.

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    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Don't count on it - literally.

    As a moral from nature, the extinct shark, Megalodon, was far more formidable a creature than any human being, even *ahem* an Englishman that ever walked the Earth.
    Just one example amongst countless millions.
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  260. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jun/12/theresa-may-apologies-backbenchers-election-mess

    Also under consideration is whether to exclude overseas students from the immigration numbers and even possibly to abandon the target to reduce immigration to the “tens of thousands”. Although nothing has been agreed, any softening of the position on immigration could maximise the chance of a closer economic relationship with the EU.

    Tories have been promising to reduce immigration for a decade to win votes… and have never come through, because they’re the party of Business.

    Sounds familiar.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    That awful, awful, dreadful, horrible man, George Osborne (former Chancellor), more or less bragged, once he had relinquished his job in exchange for a plum multimillion pound Russian Oligarch funded Petit Trianon milk maid editorship of London's Evening Standard newspaper, more or less admitted that he was double-dealing the British public whilst running the government in giving the 'plebs' strong 'anti-immigration' lip-service, while secretly wanting and planning Blair/Economist levels of immigration.
    , @LondonBob
    Very few Conservative MPs reflect the opinions of their voters, the political media establishment is just well to the left of the population as a whole. Ideologically too many Conservative MPs have no interest in controlling immigration.
    , @Art Deco
    Tories have been promising to reduce immigration for a decade to win votes… and have never come through, because they’re the party of Business.

    They were dependent for five years on the votes of the Liberal Democrats, which started out as a joint venture of the descendants of Lloyd-George on the one hand and Labour politicians fed up with the Trotskyists in the Labour Party on the other and morphed into a tedious bourgeois claque populated by the sort of people who think abortion should be legal always and everywhere but smoking cigarettes in restaurants should not.

    The problem you have now is that the Tory majority is so narrow the usual trimmers can frustrate just about any policy measure of interest. The same is true in Washington.
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  261. @Art Deco
    Please post for us with a citation a single offer by Israel to relinquish the West Bank.

    Offers have been made twice, by Ehud Barak in 2000 and Ehud Olmert in 2008.

    “Offers” is quite vague. And no citation? Please post the details with citation(s). Or just the citation(s) and I’ll read the details there on my own. Primary sources are preferred and would seem to be particularly appropriate here. Thank you.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Art Deco
    “Offers” is quite vague. And no citation? Please post the details with citation(s). Or just the citation(s) and I’ll read the details there on my own. Primary sources are preferred and would seem to be particularly appropriate here. Thank you.

    I take it you're about 17 years old. Do you want a citation to the Presidential election that year too? Documentary citations demonstrating that Ehud Barak, Dennis Ross, and Yasser Arafat are not fictional characters?

    I'm not your research assistant. It's some obscure piece of information. The failure of the terminal negotiations between Barak and Arafat (which had Madeliene Albright chasing after Arafat at Camp David in her high heels) was all over the newspapers and general newsmagazines at the time and incorporated considerable eclat because Arafat launched the 2d intifada at the time. The offer made to Abbas in 2008 (Olmert unrolled a map in a private meeting and asked Abbas if he wanted the territory delineated on it) did not receive the column inches but was quite public and generally known. It's all available to you with a few search terms. If you want more granular accounts, try Lexus-Nexus at your public library.
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  262. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @Art Deco
    It’s remotely conceivable that absent any mainland intervention, Charles Haughey’s Republic of Ireland could have militarily mobilised, defeated Stormont and imposed a unified Ireland.

    Haughey was not the prime minister in 1969, the more pacific Jack Lynch was. The midpoint of Haughey's tenure was nearly 20 years later. Since Harold Wilson's government sent troops to Ulster, it's more than remotely conceivable that any attempt by the Irish military to impose a solution would have led to them getting their clock cleaned by the British Army.

    That idyll, which was Britain in the sixties, – full employment, rising living standards, ‘cultural’ explosion – more or less died at the same point at which the first British soldier stepped foot in Ulster.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Art Deco
    That idyll, which was Britain in the sixties, – full employment, rising living standards, ‘cultural’ explosion – more or less died at the same point at which the first British soldier stepped foot in Ulster.

    Britain had just about the most non-dynamic economy in the occidental world throughout the post-war period down to about 1983. They were suffering escalating sclerosis in part because of a bad labor relations regime, the extension of state-owned industry and housing stock, and absurd marginal tax rates. One particular issue was the chronic trouble with the balance of payments (derived from defending an over-valued currency). Macroeconomic policy prior to 1967 was disfigured by attempts to contain the current account deficit.

    The 'cultural' explosion? What's so great about Jimmy Savile and Twiggy?
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  263. Gabriel M says:
    @German_reader
    I don't know about that, when I read the Telegraph a few years ago my impression was there was a lot of pro-Israel sentiment and constant agitation for hardline positions against Iran, military interventionism etc. It's true however that Oborne is very pro-Islam and so presumably somewhat anti-Israel.

    Lots of people favor interventionism in various parts of the world (and, in particular, regarding taking sides between secularists and Islamists and/or Shias and Sunnis) for reasons unrelated to Israel. Just because you insist that the only reason anyone might have opinions different from you is that they are secretly motivated by Israeli interests, doesn’t actually make it so.

    Dolt rightists develop powerful emotional attachments to various groups of goons, e.g. in the Syrian civil war, based on who they imagine is more likely to stick it to the Jews, but this is not how other people approach matters.

    Read More
    • Replies: @German_reader

    Just because you insist that the only reason anyone might have opinions different from you is that they are secretly motivated by Israeli interests, doesn’t actually make it so.
     
    I don't think I've claimed that. However you can't really pretend that there are that many people in British media who are in favour of military interventions in the Mideast and manage to be anti-Israel at the same time. Usually positions on the two issues are at least somewhat connected.
    Anyway, my original comment was a reaction to Art Deco's claim that British media is strongly or even predominantly antisemitic (or at least anti-Israel). I still doubt that's true, but maybe you've got access to some study that proves it.
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  264. @Lot
    The ethnic/religion breakdown of the Ashcroft poll starts on page 141 and 154.

    "Who would be a better PM?"

    Here's the percentage choosing May by group (overall 57.6%)

    Jewish 75.5%
    Christian 69.7%
    Chinese 66.0%
    Whites 59.3%
    Buddhist 50.0%
    Hindu 49.3%
    No Religion 43.9%
    Indian 37.3%
    Mixed Race 33.3%
    Sikh 28.6%
    Black 19.9%
    Muslim 15.9%
    Pakistani 11.0%
    Bangladeshi 8.7%

    Lot – how did you do the sums to transmogrify those Ashcroft tables into the figures you quote? Nearly 60% white voters for May seems pretty high – Attlee’s 1947 landslide was with 47.7% of a nearly 100% white electorate.

    Read More
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  265. @Art Deco
    It’s remotely conceivable that absent any mainland intervention, Charles Haughey’s Republic of Ireland could have militarily mobilised, defeated Stormont and imposed a unified Ireland.

    Haughey was not the prime minister in 1969, the more pacific Jack Lynch was. The midpoint of Haughey's tenure was nearly 20 years later. Since Harold Wilson's government sent troops to Ulster, it's more than remotely conceivable that any attempt by the Irish military to impose a solution would have led to them getting their clock cleaned by the British Army.

    I’ll restate it for you.

    Given the following conditions:

    1. Charles Haughey in power in Ireland
    2. No mainland British military deployment in Northern Ireland
    3. A sectarian conflict in Northern Ireland
    4. Irish Republic mobilises and invades Northern Ireland
    5. Still no mainland British military deployment in Northern Ireland

    It’s remotely conceivable that a militarily mobilised 26-county Dublin regime could have conquered a militarily mobilised 6-county Stormont regime and forcibly incorporated Northern Ireland into a unified Ireland. Population wise it would be about 3.5 million Catholic/Nationalist vs 1 million Protestant/Loyalist, which fits within the usual 3-1 ratio you typically need for military conquest where the populations are comparably fierce, skilled & effective. In general the North population (both Nationalist & Unionist) are a bit more fierce/martial than the South, but I don’t think the disparity is enough to make conquest impossible. The American Civil War had a similar disparity, ca 7 million white Southerners vs ca 25 million Northerners I believe, South somewhat more martial, and the North won eventually.

    Obviously this is speculation bordering on fantasy, it’s almost inconceivable Westminster would not have intervened at least as ‘peacekeepers’ in the event of a Republic invasion of Northern Ireland.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Simon in London
    I suspect the actual most likely result of my highly speculative scenario would have been that the Republic takes most of the Catholic majority areas adjacent to the Republic, the Protestants fight a tough defence (with an Alamo-type siege of Enniskillen) and retain a contracted territory, gaining another heroic myth of resistance. A few hundred people die, and there is some ethnic cleansing of Catholics in West Belfast and Protestants in border areas, including Londonderry my ancestral home. Probably on balance win-win for everyone.
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  266. @Simon in London
    I'll restate it for you.

    Given the following conditions:

    1. Charles Haughey in power in Ireland
    2. No mainland British military deployment in Northern Ireland
    3. A sectarian conflict in Northern Ireland
    4. Irish Republic mobilises and invades Northern Ireland
    5. Still no mainland British military deployment in Northern Ireland

    It's remotely conceivable that a militarily mobilised 26-county Dublin regime could have conquered a militarily mobilised 6-county Stormont regime and forcibly incorporated Northern Ireland into a unified Ireland. Population wise it would be about 3.5 million Catholic/Nationalist vs 1 million Protestant/Loyalist, which fits within the usual 3-1 ratio you typically need for military conquest where the populations are comparably fierce, skilled & effective. In general the North population (both Nationalist & Unionist) are a bit more fierce/martial than the South, but I don't think the disparity is enough to make conquest impossible. The American Civil War had a similar disparity, ca 7 million white Southerners vs ca 25 million Northerners I believe, South somewhat more martial, and the North won eventually.

    Obviously this is speculation bordering on fantasy, it's almost inconceivable Westminster would not have intervened at least as 'peacekeepers' in the event of a Republic invasion of Northern Ireland.

    I suspect the actual most likely result of my highly speculative scenario would have been that the Republic takes most of the Catholic majority areas adjacent to the Republic, the Protestants fight a tough defence (with an Alamo-type siege of Enniskillen) and retain a contracted territory, gaining another heroic myth of resistance. A few hundred people die, and there is some ethnic cleansing of Catholics in West Belfast and Protestants in border areas, including Londonderry my ancestral home. Probably on balance win-win for everyone.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Randal
    That's probably a plausible alternative history scenario, given your assumptions - as you say, it's pretty much inconceivable in reality that there could have been no British intervention.

    With hindsight it's pretty clear that the unionists made a serious error in making maximalist border demands back in 1920.
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  267. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @AP
    Except it won't. You will be left with the core reproductive part of the population, which will then slowly expand.* As long as you don't get swamped by foreigners during the period when the population has reached its low point.

    *In America, this would be Mormons, Amish, Hasids, perhaps some traditional Catholic subgroup. These population ware expanding and will continue to expand even if everyone else (theoretically) is reduced to zero.

    Don’t count on it – literally.

    As a moral from nature, the extinct shark, Megalodon, was far more formidable a creature than any human being, even *ahem* an Englishman that ever walked the Earth.
    Just one example amongst countless millions.

    Read More
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  268. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @Anonymous
    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jun/12/theresa-may-apologies-backbenchers-election-mess

    Also under consideration is whether to exclude overseas students from the immigration numbers and even possibly to abandon the target to reduce immigration to the “tens of thousands”. Although nothing has been agreed, any softening of the position on immigration could maximise the chance of a closer economic relationship with the EU.
     
    Tories have been promising to reduce immigration for a decade to win votes... and have never come through, because they're the party of Business.

    Sounds familiar.

    That awful, awful, dreadful, horrible man, George Osborne (former Chancellor), more or less bragged, once he had relinquished his job in exchange for a plum multimillion pound Russian Oligarch funded Petit Trianon milk maid editorship of London’s Evening Standard newspaper, more or less admitted that he was double-dealing the British public whilst running the government in giving the ‘plebs’ strong ‘anti-immigration’ lip-service, while secretly wanting and planning Blair/Economist levels of immigration.

    Read More
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  269. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer

    If, right now, you are watching TV footage of the conflagration which had taken hold of a west London tower-block apartment building, you can count on it that at least 90% of the tenants of that building are ‘ethnic minority’.

    Ironically, that building is located in the loftily named ‘Royal Borough of Kensington and Chelsea’ so named after the numerous royal palace within its environs, and a location within spitting distance of London’ best and finest sites/amenities etc.
    On the open market, that block would be worth a fortune, but rest assured it is or was filled with social security claimants, Labour voters and people who can’t be arsed to vote.

    Built in the Heath era back in 1974 for a mostly white English or Irish population.
    Council flat building virtually stopped after 1976, due to the IMF imposed cuts, and never took off again.
    The building was undoubtedly built to fire-proofed concrete standards by Englishmen, Irishmen and Polish World War 2 veterans.

    Read More
    • Replies: @englishmike

    If, right now, you are watching TV footage of the conflagration which had taken hold of a west London tower-block apartment building...

     

    I'm no expert, but based on what I heard during BBCTV's extended news report this morning:

    The building has recently undergone expensive refurbishment, partly designed to improve safety standards. There are many such buildings around Britain, especially in inner-city areas. What happened to this one is not supposed to happen to any of them - a small fire spread very quickly from a lower floor right to the top of the tower (I think the cause will turn out to be an exploding refrigerator in one apartment, probably on the 4th floor).

    Such tower blocks are apparently constructed to contain the fire within the apartment and residents are advised to keep within their own apartment for 30 minutes or more until rescued by the fire service, otherwise the fire can quickly spread within the tower. The building has a single "fire escape" - a set of stairs. But this serves both for fire fighters to access all levels in an emergency and for residents to make their exit. Hence the advice for residents to wait until instructed to leave. In today's disaster, that advice was fatal for the as-yet-unknown number who perished.

    Why did the fire spread upwards? Expect attention to focus on the "cladding" attached, mainly or entirely for decorative purpose, to the outside of the building. Witnesses watched in horror as the cladding appeared to conduct the fire rapidly upwards: I heard one witness say it took just ten minutes for the flames to reach the top. Part of the blame was being placed also on the lack of sprinklers in the fire escape (Labour's Mr Corbyn has already seized on this as a possible stick with which to beat the Tories for their cuts in spending), and also on the failure of lighting on the fire escape. I also heard it suggested that when builders drilled holes to install such things as gas pipes, they may have failed to seal them properly, or with the correct fireproof seal, thus allowing fire to gradually seep upwards. The faults mentioned in this paragraph are so far speculative and may become legally challenged.

    The member of a group representing the residents' claimed on the BBC that there had been concerns about the safety of the building, since the refurbishment, expressed to the local council but that these had been dismissed, even after his group had presented a petition to the council signed by 90% of the residents.

    I cannot confirm or deny the claim by "anonymous" that 90% of the apartment building's tenants are "ethnic minority". Most of the ones I saw interviewed or filmed by the BBC news report were.
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  270. Art Deco says:
    @Kyle McKenna
    Again, you have offered what's known as the ad hominem fallacy. Well done!

    The term ‘ad hominem’ fallacy does not mean what you fancy it means. For starters, there were no issues under discussion in that comment.

    Read More
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  271. LondonBob says:
    @Anonymous
    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jun/12/theresa-may-apologies-backbenchers-election-mess

    Also under consideration is whether to exclude overseas students from the immigration numbers and even possibly to abandon the target to reduce immigration to the “tens of thousands”. Although nothing has been agreed, any softening of the position on immigration could maximise the chance of a closer economic relationship with the EU.
     
    Tories have been promising to reduce immigration for a decade to win votes... and have never come through, because they're the party of Business.

    Sounds familiar.

    Very few Conservative MPs reflect the opinions of their voters, the political media establishment is just well to the left of the population as a whole. Ideologically too many Conservative MPs have no interest in controlling immigration.

    Read More
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  272. Art Deco says:
    @Randal
    Good that we've established you have no grownup answer on the points at issue, anyway.

    Good that we’ve established you have no grownup answer on the points at issue, anyway.

    Your opening contentions have no demonstrable reality outside your imagination. I could tell you to put up or shut up. The task of doing either appears to be quite challenging for you.

    Read More
    • Troll: German_reader
    • Replies: @Randal
    You chose to come here and write blatant lies about verifiable historical facts. To then claim not to be an "activist" merely demands the obvious question in response of why you are lying for Israel if you are not an activist.

    As for the rest, your words would be better addressed to yourself. It appears you have been correctly identified as a troll.
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  273. Art Deco says:
    @Lossleader
    The parallel between Northern Ireland and Rhodesia would have been on everybody's minds in the mid-late 1960s. If the British were unwilling to support the Rhodesians it was reasonable to assume they would refuse to support the Ulstermen. Indeed Wilson later came out as an advocate of Irish unity. If Labour had won the 1970 election you would probably have seen a withdrawal of British troops from Ireland and refusal to intervene against an invasion/liberation by the South.

    The parallel between Northern Ireland and Rhodesia would have been on everybody’s minds in the mid-late 1960s. If the British were unwilling to support the Rhodesians

    I doubt it. Rhodesia was 7,500 miles away, had never been an integral part of the United Kingdom, was in formal rebellion from 1965 to 1979, and consisted of 270,000 Brits attempting to rule a population of 6 million Ndebele and Shona-speakers.

    Read More
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  274. Art Deco says:
    @Opinionator
    "Offers" is quite vague. And no citation? Please post the details with citation(s). Or just the citation(s) and I'll read the details there on my own. Primary sources are preferred and would seem to be particularly appropriate here. Thank you.

    “Offers” is quite vague. And no citation? Please post the details with citation(s). Or just the citation(s) and I’ll read the details there on my own. Primary sources are preferred and would seem to be particularly appropriate here. Thank you.

    I take it you’re about 17 years old. Do you want a citation to the Presidential election that year too? Documentary citations demonstrating that Ehud Barak, Dennis Ross, and Yasser Arafat are not fictional characters?

    I’m not your research assistant. It’s some obscure piece of information. The failure of the terminal negotiations between Barak and Arafat (which had Madeliene Albright chasing after Arafat at Camp David in her high heels) was all over the newspapers and general newsmagazines at the time and incorporated considerable eclat because Arafat launched the 2d intifada at the time. The offer made to Abbas in 2008 (Olmert unrolled a map in a private meeting and asked Abbas if he wanted the territory delineated on it) did not receive the column inches but was quite public and generally known. It’s all available to you with a few search terms. If you want more granular accounts, try Lexus-Nexus at your public library.

    Read More
    • Troll: Opinionator
    • Replies: @Opinionator
    Asked nicely for evidence of your claim, you have resorted to insults and misdirection. All you had to do was provide a citation showing that Israel offered to relinquish the West Bank. But you are backtracking now. Your comment does not support the claim that Israel has made two offers to relinquish the West Bank.
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  275. Art Deco says:
    @Anonymous
    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jun/12/theresa-may-apologies-backbenchers-election-mess

    Also under consideration is whether to exclude overseas students from the immigration numbers and even possibly to abandon the target to reduce immigration to the “tens of thousands”. Although nothing has been agreed, any softening of the position on immigration could maximise the chance of a closer economic relationship with the EU.
     
    Tories have been promising to reduce immigration for a decade to win votes... and have never come through, because they're the party of Business.

    Sounds familiar.

    Tories have been promising to reduce immigration for a decade to win votes… and have never come through, because they’re the party of Business.

    They were dependent for five years on the votes of the Liberal Democrats, which started out as a joint venture of the descendants of Lloyd-George on the one hand and Labour politicians fed up with the Trotskyists in the Labour Party on the other and morphed into a tedious bourgeois claque populated by the sort of people who think abortion should be legal always and everywhere but smoking cigarettes in restaurants should not.

    The problem you have now is that the Tory majority is so narrow the usual trimmers can frustrate just about any policy measure of interest. The same is true in Washington.

    Read More
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  276. Art Deco says:
    @Anonymous
    That idyll, which was Britain in the sixties, - full employment, rising living standards, 'cultural' explosion - more or less died at the same point at which the first British soldier stepped foot in Ulster.

    That idyll, which was Britain in the sixties, – full employment, rising living standards, ‘cultural’ explosion – more or less died at the same point at which the first British soldier stepped foot in Ulster.

    Britain had just about the most non-dynamic economy in the occidental world throughout the post-war period down to about 1983. They were suffering escalating sclerosis in part because of a bad labor relations regime, the extension of state-owned industry and housing stock, and absurd marginal tax rates. One particular issue was the chronic trouble with the balance of payments (derived from defending an over-valued currency). Macroeconomic policy prior to 1967 was disfigured by attempts to contain the current account deficit.

    The ‘cultural’ explosion? What’s so great about Jimmy Savile and Twiggy?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    The years roughly from 1950 to 1970 were undoubtedly the *best ever* for the British economy in that the typical annual rate of economic growth in that era had never ever been attained before in recorded British economic history - accurate economic records in the UK go back an awful long way - and, as it happens, have never been attained since.
    This includes the so-called 'dynamic' years of the 18th/19th century industrial revolution.
    The all time high water mark of manufacturing as proportion of UK GDP was in 1966. The rate of house building reached in 1968 has never ever been equalled.
    Anyone old enough to recall those times will honestly and unflinchingly tell you that they were the best of times.

    Plus the pop music was a damned sight better too.
    , @anon
    you do know you're a one man anti-semitism generator right?
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  277. Randal says:
    @Art Deco
    Good that we’ve established you have no grownup answer on the points at issue, anyway.

    Your opening contentions have no demonstrable reality outside your imagination. I could tell you to put up or shut up. The task of doing either appears to be quite challenging for you.

    You chose to come here and write blatant lies about verifiable historical facts. To then claim not to be an “activist” merely demands the obvious question in response of why you are lying for Israel if you are not an activist.

    As for the rest, your words would be better addressed to yourself. It appears you have been correctly identified as a troll.

    Read More
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  278. Randal says:
    @Simon in London
    I suspect the actual most likely result of my highly speculative scenario would have been that the Republic takes most of the Catholic majority areas adjacent to the Republic, the Protestants fight a tough defence (with an Alamo-type siege of Enniskillen) and retain a contracted territory, gaining another heroic myth of resistance. A few hundred people die, and there is some ethnic cleansing of Catholics in West Belfast and Protestants in border areas, including Londonderry my ancestral home. Probably on balance win-win for everyone.

    That’s probably a plausible alternative history scenario, given your assumptions – as you say, it’s pretty much inconceivable in reality that there could have been no British intervention.

    With hindsight it’s pretty clear that the unionists made a serious error in making maximalist border demands back in 1920.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Simon in London
    Well maximalist demands would have been the nine counties of Ulster...

    And remember a good number of Protestants & Unionists did end up stranded in the Republic. There has been a lot of demographic shift since then due to different birth & emigration rates; Londonderry for instance where my family is from. I can see why the 6 Ulster counties with Unionist majorities seemed like a reasonable compromise at the time. The Pill came in from the 1960s and hit Protestant demographics harder since our religious leaders allowed contraception and their lot didn't. I think Feminism and the culture shift in general hit Protestants harder. From what I recall seeing in the 1980s, rural Protestants had 4 kids, urban Protestants had 2 kids. Rural Catholics had 6 and urban Catholics had 4. I'm sure it's worse now for both, probably hit Catholics harder. The Irish Catholics I know in London are typically from 4-6 child families in the old country, but here they show little inclination to breed at all.
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  279. Corvinus says:
    @The Anti-Gnostic
    I think you're underestimating the degree of self-loathing with which the modern Westerner regards himself and his civilization.

    The modern Westerner regards himself and his civilization as being problematic, but solutions which are attainable. Unfortunately, he and she have to deal with the critics such as yourself who insist there is only but one way to live as a Westerner.

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  280. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @Art Deco
    That idyll, which was Britain in the sixties, – full employment, rising living standards, ‘cultural’ explosion – more or less died at the same point at which the first British soldier stepped foot in Ulster.

    Britain had just about the most non-dynamic economy in the occidental world throughout the post-war period down to about 1983. They were suffering escalating sclerosis in part because of a bad labor relations regime, the extension of state-owned industry and housing stock, and absurd marginal tax rates. One particular issue was the chronic trouble with the balance of payments (derived from defending an over-valued currency). Macroeconomic policy prior to 1967 was disfigured by attempts to contain the current account deficit.

    The 'cultural' explosion? What's so great about Jimmy Savile and Twiggy?

    The years roughly from 1950 to 1970 were undoubtedly the *best ever* for the British economy in that the typical annual rate of economic growth in that era had never ever been attained before in recorded British economic history – accurate economic records in the UK go back an awful long way – and, as it happens, have never been attained since.
    This includes the so-called ‘dynamic’ years of the 18th/19th century industrial revolution.
    The all time high water mark of manufacturing as proportion of UK GDP was in 1966. The rate of house building reached in 1968 has never ever been equalled.
    Anyone old enough to recall those times will honestly and unflinchingly tell you that they were the best of times.

    Plus the pop music was a damned sight better too.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Gabriel M
    Tractor production was UP!
    , @Lossleader
    Even before the oil shocks of the early 1970s the economic boom of the 1960s was unsustainable due to the ballooning balance of payments. The country was living beyond its means under Wilson and a sharp correction was inevitable.
    , @Randal

    "Indeed let us be frank about it - most of our people have never had it so good.

    "Go around the country, go to the industrial towns, go to the farms and you will see a state of prosperity such as we have never had in my lifetime - nor indeed in the history of this country."

     

    Harold Macmillan, Prime Minister 20th July 1957 (re-elected with increased majority in 1959)
    Quoted in BBC On This Day
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/july/20/newsid_3728000/3728225.stm
    , @James Richard

    Plus the pop music was a damned sight better too.
     
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4cly_2pGTNw
    , @PV van der Byl
    The period 1950-1970 was outstanding for a large majority of countries outside of the communist bloc, black Africa, and south Asia.

    Britain was signficantly better off in absolute terms in 1970 but West Germany, France, Italy, and even Spain had done clearly better over the same twenty years.

    Events in Ulster did not impact Britain's economic fortunes significantly.
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  281. Gabriel M says:
    @Anonymous
    The years roughly from 1950 to 1970 were undoubtedly the *best ever* for the British economy in that the typical annual rate of economic growth in that era had never ever been attained before in recorded British economic history - accurate economic records in the UK go back an awful long way - and, as it happens, have never been attained since.
    This includes the so-called 'dynamic' years of the 18th/19th century industrial revolution.
    The all time high water mark of manufacturing as proportion of UK GDP was in 1966. The rate of house building reached in 1968 has never ever been equalled.
    Anyone old enough to recall those times will honestly and unflinchingly tell you that they were the best of times.

    Plus the pop music was a damned sight better too.

    Tractor production was UP!

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  282. @Anonymous
    The years roughly from 1950 to 1970 were undoubtedly the *best ever* for the British economy in that the typical annual rate of economic growth in that era had never ever been attained before in recorded British economic history - accurate economic records in the UK go back an awful long way - and, as it happens, have never been attained since.
    This includes the so-called 'dynamic' years of the 18th/19th century industrial revolution.
    The all time high water mark of manufacturing as proportion of UK GDP was in 1966. The rate of house building reached in 1968 has never ever been equalled.
    Anyone old enough to recall those times will honestly and unflinchingly tell you that they were the best of times.

    Plus the pop music was a damned sight better too.

    Even before the oil shocks of the early 1970s the economic boom of the 1960s was unsustainable due to the ballooning balance of payments. The country was living beyond its means under Wilson and a sharp correction was inevitable.

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    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Possibly, but back in the day, the UK was only behind the USA and Germany in manufacturing prowess.
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  283. @Art Deco
    “Offers” is quite vague. And no citation? Please