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I’m going to bed. What’s happening?

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  1. Trump is #winning?

    Maybe he will get a taste for it and build the damn wall. Or, as I’ve suspected from the start, he’s punking us like he’s punking the G7 and will get a partial wall built then campaign in 2020 on “I’ll finish my wall, those guys won’t.” Think contractor punking owner on change orders and you’ll get it.

  2. The President is an Elton John fan, so he and Rocket Man should get along just fine.

  3. Trumpy meeting with Kim Alexis is of no concern to me. Trumpy’s wife posed for the Sports Illustrated Swimsuit issue too!

    I want Trumpy to kill the European Union and the European Central Bank.

    I want Trumpy to destroy the euro.

    I want Trumpy to remove Merkel and Macron from power. Merkel and Macron(M & M) are evil scum who push mass immigration and multiculturalism.

    Chris Christie loves to consume and consolidate M & M chocolate candies. Trumpy should put Chris Christie in charge of removing Macron and Merkel from power.

    Chris Christie consolidating M & M chocolate candies:

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    , @TheJester
  4. This is Lester Holt,
    President and Dick-tater!
    Trump and Kim are friends.

  5. denjae says:

    Trump’s post-meet tweet will be: “Sayonara, Rocket Man.”

    • Replies: @Logan
  6. Rumor is that the Norwegian Nobel Committee is considering to imitate their Swedish counterparts by staging their own #MeToo scandal and then announcing that they will not award any Peace Prizes anytime soon. Hence, in a worst case scenario where Trump actually gets results with the North Koreans, the Nobel Committee will not be forced to do the unthinkable by awarding him one. (Sure, terrorists like Arafat and Mandela got peace prizes, but it is surely a bridge too far to award it to someone as vulgar as Trump.)

    Okay, okay, I made that up, except for the part about actual terrorists winning peace prizes, of course.

    • Replies: @DRA
  7. Antonius says:

    Only Nixon could go to China.

    • Replies: @Sean
  8. Tyrion 2 says: • Website

    I’m pretty optimistic. My biggest fear is that they get a deal but Trump does ‘the hero they need, not the hero they want’ thing, takes a bow, lets others be credited and fails to build the political capital required to erect the wall and implement e-verify.

  9. Shoutout to the blackpill Eeyore loser crew that said this would never even happen.

    • LOL: Jack Hanson
  10. anon[153] • Disclaimer says:

    Trump will TCB (Take Care of Business).

  11. My biggest fear is that they get a deal but Trump does ‘the hero they need, not the hero they want’ thing, takes a bow, lets others be credited

    Yeah, I know what you mean.

    Trump is such a blushing schoolboy. Everybody takes advantage of him.

    • LOL: Escher
  12. Tiny Duck says:

    Trump is getting played. It says a lot about white people that they elected a terrible human being because of their racism when they should have been thanking their lucky stars that we were graced with such an erudite kind compassionate man that came before in Barack Obama

    white “men” have shown their true colors. We are evil and deserve wverythign we get. This is why I encourage my white female students to date Men of Color. white men are incel losers who feel entitiled to everything

    • Agree: NickG
    • Replies: @WGG
  13. @27 year old

    And then to pretend they never said otherwise and forget about this failure with the rest of the failures that they call their life.

  14. BenKenobi says:

    The Earth is 4.5 billion years old, and we get to live during the Trump presidency.

    Feels good, man.

  15. I’d put the chances of a successful outcome as better than 50-50, but, given all the unknowns, not much better. The motives of and pressures on the N Korean leadership are far too murky to have a firm sense of the outcome. Under any rational reckoning, they’d do the deal — but I don’t know how rational they are.

  16. Luke Lea says:

    My guess: it will either be spectacular or a bust.

    • Replies: @Bragadocious
  17. People tend to see NK in the context of alliances during the Korean war–China and NK as brothers on one hand with the US and SK opposing them–but I think the situation is more fluid.

    Kim’s nukes could mayyyybe hit the US mainland but they could definitely hit Beijing. NK has successfully kept the US/SK at bay with the ability to destroy Seoul with conventional artillery for years, a nuclear program doesn’t add much to this as the US never dared attack even when the NK regime was at its weakest during the famines of the 90s. However a nuke/missile program means they don’t necessarily have to be China’s vassal state either. The Juche philosophy is incompatible with reliance on a single foreign patron, and that includes China.

    I think NK rightly realizes that with China rising and the US declining the strategic imperative is to avoid being subsumed by a more assertive China. When China was relatively weak and backward it was more reasonable to ally with them if the goal was to avoid foreign domination. Now that China is relatively strong and very close by geographically the main risk to their continued independence is China. So they may be willing to get more friendly with the U.S. and try to go the Tito route.

    Bottom line is the loser with regards to the NK program is, and has always been, China. Look at it this way–if a poor, backward, but ostensible US ‘ally’ started a nuclear program without our consent would we view this as a good thing? If Turkey for example started down that path during the cold war, to hedge against Soviet aggression, would we be happy or not? The answer is not happy, because allies don’t stay allies forever.

    I think China made a grave error in not trying harder to stop Kim’s nuclear program. Likely they were so focused on what they view as past humiliations by Western powers and atrocities by Japan that they failed to consider the risks created by a tiny country they viewed with contempt.

    • Replies: @mobi
    , @Flip
  18. Tiny Duck says:

    whites possess a certain energy and verve which is conducive towards large scale aggressive and ambitious enterprises

    we whites must contend with this and accept the justice

    • Replies: @Mis(ter)Anthrope
  19. Its really hard to get accommodations to report on it, even with press credentials.

  20. anon[118] • Disclaimer says:

    CNN is throwing everything at the idea that the meeting is a major concession and that Trump has already given the NORKS a huge win. Also backfilling with a human rights argument that we are going to ignore NORK crimes against humanity to do a deal. Ergo — the is no possible win.

    Maybe wall to wall anti-Trump is good for ratings.

  21. bored identity strongly believes that ‘you snooze you lose’ adage is totally applicable to every second of the coverage related to Snore Galore in Singapore spectacle…

    The Orangutan from Queens just announced urbi at orbi that from now any royale with cheese served on the Air Force One has to be topped with a fistful of kimchi in order prevent clear-air turbulence :

    In totally unrelated news from 2020 ;
    bored identity just got his brand new t-shirt delivered by freshly-merged Alibabazon.
    And , the inscription on the t-shirt reads :


    • Replies: @Anon
  22. I don’t know if we would ever get a sober, straightforward analysis of any deal with the Norks.

    The partisan press has an interest in denying Trump any victory which might legitimize him and accrue political capital for use domestically, so a good deal or a bad deal is going to get the same negative treatment.

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
  23. Logan says:

    Shouldn’t that be “jal gayo?”

  24. @Alec Leamas is pretty good.

    They even have their own special fansite:

    Because why not, I also decided to check Unz:

    • Replies: @Autochthon
  25. WGG says:
    @Tiny Duck

    Why are incels a white phenomenon?

    Because non-white incels have a more specific name: rapists.

    (I know, I know. Don’t feed the Shaniqua troll posing as Le Distinguished Professor. Elbow patches and all, I’m sure.)

    • Replies: @nebulafox
  26. I see two obstacles to getting a real deal with Kim

    1. How can Kim open up his country to the outside even a sliver? He has created such a fantasy land within his country, wouldn’t any opening at all cause a collapse like the fall of the Iron Curtain? Kim does not want to be Ceaușescu.

    2. After what happened to Coo-coo-ca-ch00-Doffy at the hands of Hillary, how can Kim trust anything America says?

    I just don’t see a way around these.

    • Replies: @Tyrion 2
  27. Tyrion 2 says: • Website

    1. How can Kim open up his country to the outside even a sliver? He has created such a fantasy land within his country, wouldn’t any opening at all cause a collapse like the fall of the Iron Curtain? Kim does not want to be Ceaușescu

    We’ve always been a nation of immigrants. We’ve always believed in gay marriage. We’ve always decided that men and women are exactly the same. We’ve always had a panopoly of genders. We’ve always believed in open borders.

    Just as the bad people have always been vociferous, sexist, racist transphobes.

    See, it isn’t hard.

    And in Kim’s case he’ll actually be making his country immeasurably better.

    It shouldn’t be hard. He’ll be lionised internationally if he really does go through with preparing Korea for eventual unification. His statue will adorn their main squares.

  28. ” To protect one of the highest-profile diplomatic events so far this century, Singapore has enlisted the help of its fearsome Nepalese fighters whose large curved knives, according to custom, must “taste blood” whenever they’re drawn.”

    Oi boy, a dirty dozen of fearsome Durkha-Gurkha goat-climbing mercenaries is enlisted to help…

    Sure thing, as long as a borderline retarded fox news scribe cuck-happily subscribes to the third world customs:

  29. @Jack Hanson

    Ah forget it Jack this autism town.

    • LOL: Jack Hanson
    • Replies: @Anon
  30. benjaminl says:


    Just came across this Adnan Oktar guy aka Harun Yahya who seems absolutely made for iSteve. Kind of a mash-up between Fetullah Gulen, L. Ron Hubbard, and Berlusconi/Trump?


    The most recent article, in Haaretz, is paywalled, but some other coverage gives the flavor.

    Ronel argues that willingness of at least some Israeli politicians and clerics to appear on his TV program may stem from his attitude regarding Al-Aqsa Mosque.

    On scores of websites and in dozens of books with titles like The Evolution Deceit and The Dark Face of Darwinism, a new and well-funded version of evolution-denialism, carefully calibrated to exploit the current fashion for religiously inspired attacks on scientific orthodoxy and “militant” atheism, seems to have found its voice. … The patron saint of this new movement, the ubiquitous “expert” cited and referenced by those eager to demonstrate the superiority of “Koranic science” over “the evolution lie”, is the larger-than-life figure of Harun Yahya.

    In witness statements, the models Tugce Doras and Seckin Piriler give detailed accounts of how members of the group treated them as “sex slaves” and how Oktar and his followers compelled them to perform oral sex and other sexual favours…. In the late 1980s, after several babies were born to group members (whether Oktar’s or not is unclear), Oktar forbade sexual practices that would lead to pregnancy (his followers were limited to anal or oral intercourse). Since then there have been no more births in the group.

    The group started buying up beachfront property in exclusive resort towns on the Sea of Marmara, where sex could be used as a recruitment tool…. A police raid on the summer residence a few years later revealed that it was decorated “like the Dolmabahce palace” in Istanbul.

    • Replies: @bored identity
  31. mobi says:

    Agree with this.

    I’ll add, from personal experience living there, and interacting with thousands of Korean adults from all walks of life – while their hostility to Japan is legendary, it’s a mile wide and a couple of inches deep. It’s historical/circumstantial, in the sense of being rooted almost entirely in particular historical grievance.

    Resolve those particular grievances, and they actually admire Japanese, and Japanese culture, greatly.

    On China and Chinese, otoh, the negative reaction is much more visceral/racist.

    ‘Dirty, smelly, noisy, lying, cheating…’ It’s as predictable as pushing a button on a tape recorder.

    Ie, it’s wrong to assume that North Korea sees itself as ‘China’s little brother.’. In fact, as with Juche – they’re probably even more extreme in their attitudes. (‘Juche’ isn’t communism as much as it’s extreme Koreanism)

    I do wonder, though, if this isn’t largely Kim bluffing/threatening China. Relations were visibly deteriorating (lots of examples), including China for the first time appearing serious about turning the screws via sanctions, etc.

    Kim: ‘Oh, really? Even you, Brutus? Would you like to see what else we have in the way of options? If we can’t even count on you when our backs are to the wall, maybe we should seek a better deal from the Americans’

    Followed very quickly by a flurry of renewed interest from China in relations with its ‘little brother’. Followed by Kim turning suddenly nasty again to the US, etc (did he get what he wanted from China, and now has nothing to lose seeing what he might get from the US?).

    Don’t know. Too much murkiness for anything but speculation. Perhaps Kim got wind of moves by China to replace him, and he’s genuinely winging it for his life.

    Fun to speculate, though.

    • Replies: @Sean
  32. hyperbola says:

    Rambouillet ruse? Why Trump could be setting up his North Korea talks to fail

    President Trump has set the bar of success so high for his forthcoming meeting with Kim Jong-un, it is difficult to see how it could possibly be met. …. So what is Trump doing? Surely he knows what he is proposing would be completely unacceptable to any North Korean leader, let alone Kim Jong-un?

    But maybe this is the point. What if Trump, far from wanting to reach a deal, is actually deliberately pushing a proposal which is supposed to be rejected? After all, so long as he ensures his demands are unacceptable, he can offer the moon in return: recognition, technology, aid, lifting of sanctions, hell – why not? – even the removal of US troops from South Korea. Having such an offer rejected would allow Trump much more readily to be able to paint North Korea as the aggressor – unwilling to compromise, insincere in its desire for peace, etc, etc. This is, after all, a time-honored tactic. ….

    In February 1999, in the French town of Rambouillet, a series of meetings were convened between representatives of Kosovo’s multiethnic population and the US with the ostensible aim of resolving the conflict between Kosovan separatists and the Yugoslav government. For its part, the Yugoslavs had proposed a ceasefire, peace talks, the return of displaced citizens, and the establishment of a devolved assembly for the province, with a wide degree of autonomy.

    This would clearly have gone a long way to addressing the conflict; but that very fact made it completely unacceptable to the US, desperate to justify their coming onslaught against Yugoslavia. Instead, they needed a ‘peace deal’ that would be rejected by the Yugoslavs, who could then be painted as the aggressors, paving the way for war. To this end, the ‘Rambouillet Peace Agreement’ was formulated. The document demanded complete de facto independence for Kosovo, whilst still allowing the province to influence the rest of Yugoslavia by continuing to send representatives to its federal institutions. Yet, just in case even this one-sided arrangement was accepted by the Yugoslavs, in chapter seven of the agreement, the US inserted a crucial clause: that NATO “personnel shall enjoy . . . with their vehicles, vessels, aircraft and equipment, free and unrestricted passage and unimpeded access throughout the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia, including associated airspace and territorial waters”, whilst at the same time being “immune from all legal process, whether civil, administrative or criminal, [and] under all circumstances and at all times, immune from [all laws] governing any criminal or disciplinary offences which may be committed by Nato personnel in the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia”.

    In other words, Yugoslavia would have to not only submit to a full-scale occupation by NATO, but also give the occupiers the absolute and unaccountable right to abuse the population at will. Such a demand could never have been accepted by any sovereign country. But that, of course, was the point: this was an agreement penned precisely to be rejected, in order to paint the Serbs as the unreasoning aggressors. It worked perfectly: the ‘agreement’ was duly rejected, and the planned blitzkrieg of Yugoslavia followed, with 78 days of unrelenting aerial bombardment.

    The same ruse was repeated the following year by US President Bill Clinton. At Palestinian-Israeli peace talks at Camp David, he made a proposal for a ‘final settlement’ of the conflict which allowed Israel to keep 80 percent of their illegal settlements along with sovereignty over a patchwork of roads linking them together and thereby cutting the West Bank into unviable bantustans – with refugees permanently denied the right to return to their homes in Israel. As former US president Jimmy Carter commented, “There was no possibility that any Palestinian leader could accept such terms and survive – but official statements from Washington and Jerusalem were successful in placing the entire onus for failure on Yasir Arafat”.

    Indeed, through the distortions of Western media…..

    • Replies: @Tyrion 2
  33. Anon[128] • Disclaimer says:

    “1. How can Kim open up his country to the outside even a sliver? He has created such a fantasy land within his country, wouldn’t any opening at all cause a collapse like the fall of the Iron Curtain? Kim does not want to be Ceaușescu.”

    Open it up to the military and Ruling Class first. The good results will trickle down to the rest after. If done very slowly, it can be handled. Also, first start with aid, don’t just open the economy up all at once. Then, gradually, open things up over many years in a controlled way.

    “2. After what happened to Coo-coo-ca-ch00-Doffy at the hands of Hillary, how can Kim trust anything America says?”

    Qaddafi’s big mistake was not getting it in writing. A peace treaty signed between the US and N. Korea would make an attack on them illegal. It would also require a congressional vote to override, giving the N. Koreans plenty of time to see it coming in advance. Kim shouldn’t foolishly give away everything at once, but gradually moving toward a more reasonable (and peaceful) accommodation could be achieved under the right circumstances.

    Besides, as I first commented here months ago and as at least one other commenter above seems to have picked up on, it is in N. Korea’s long term interest to play both sides against the middle amidst a rising China and a dominant US. Otherwise, they could become a Chinese vassal 20 years hence. N. Korea should play nice with everyone until the day they may have to pick a side (more than the nominal Chinese relationship they have now).

    It is not impossible for me to believe that North Korea, Japan and the United States could be allies in the year 2035. In fact, Japan has in the past attempted to make nice with them; this was partly due to the fact that S. Korea and Japan have a strained relationship dating back to WW2. A more independent, China-friendly S. Korea could be bad news for Japan unless they’ve got additional friends.

  34. Flip says:

    I think Kim would just as soon turn North Korea over to the South Koreans and reunify the country like with Germany. Certainly the North Koreans would be better off. He’s just concerned about getting the Khaddafi/Saddam Hussein treatment at the end.

    • Replies: @Tyrion 2
  35. Sean says:

    Being friends with China was only a way one of getting at the USSR. Following that Nixon trip, American officials were ordered to facilitate the development of the Chinese economy and it is only with the election of Trump that there seems to be dawning realisation that too good a job was done on building up China; the US strategist have ignored how America’s power depends on having the world’s most powerful economy; they have created a monster. Kim is a tool of Decepticon-China raping the US and West and neither Kim or China will ever let the US of the hook. There will be no final deal with Kim, China’s, ahem, help will be ALWAYS needed, China’s growth will continue apace, and the US will slowly, but surely slide into the humiliated position that Russia is in now.

  36. @Tiny Duck

    So now you are white? Are you the ghost of Michael Jackson? If so, please stay away from young white boys this time.

  37. Way OT, but I found this pretty funny:

    Niagara Regional Police Const. Scott Heron has been found guilty of four criminal charges that include conspiracy to smuggle cheese and chicken wings across the border from the United States into Canada.

    Find me the man, I’ll find the crime…

  38. @candid_observer

    Just wait til that Tyrant Trudeau cracks down on July 1st.

    No cheddar is illegal!

  39. Felix.... says:

    Nobody here voted for Trump because of North Korea. As a matter of fact, nobody anywhere voted for Trump because of North Korea. If he does nothing substantive on immigration he can GTFO.

    PS: using the word “Eeyore” automatically makes you a retard.

  40. Anon[371] • Disclaimer says:
    @27 year old

    Is it in our interests that this should happen? NK being independent tends toward a greater balance of power in the world.

  41. Anon[371] • Disclaimer says:
    @Jack Hanson

    Trump wasn’t elected to focus in his crucial second year on Korea’s borders rather than those of the United States.

    • Replies: @Jack Hanson
  42. Anon[371] • Disclaimer says:
    @bored identity



    • Replies: @bored identity
    , @Jack D
  43. Fredrik says:

    And to top it off this doesn’t go into the trade statistics and so distorts the Trump/Trudeau picture.

  44. I don’t care if Trumpy read Rudyard Kipling’s Kim

    Trumpy Must Implement An Immigration Moratorium

    Trumpy Must Deport All Illegal Alien Invaders

    God Bless Italy — Italy Must Repatriate The Foreigners Now!

    Nigel Farage Says Send The Boats Back:

  45. Nixon had this theory that looking like a crazy man does a great job persuading adversaries.

    But I think Trump’s idea is that, if you thought Nixon looked crazy, just wait for his own crazy face:

  46. @Anon

    Trump isn’t an actual God Emperor.

    Ah forget it. This is AutismTown.

  47. @Anon

    People keep bringing up the example of Qadaffi.

    What they fail to think about is the example of Saddam Hussein — which must be on Kim’s mind.

    Why did the US finally invade Iraq? Because, supposedly, they had WMD. Whether or not it was true, and whether or not it was the “real” explanation for our invasion, it was what we and our coalition partners required as a justification.

    So long as N Korea has a nuclear program, we have every justification for invading them. If they give up their nukes, we return, at worst, to the stalemate we have held for 60 some years.

    • Replies: @TontoBubbaGoldstein
  48. @Felix....

    Thanks for letting me know my rhetorical shiv hurts you, eeyore.

  49. Good luck to him. But it’s not important.

    AnotherMom and I came back to the PNW recently via San Diego to visit some grad school friends. They took us down to the border. Still no big beautiful wall.

    • Replies: @Jack Hanson
  50. I know Scott Adams’ adage that “The best way to win is not to put yourself in a losing position” drives the autists around here insane, but its an accurate take on Trump’s working ethos.

    Everything has been decided. Barring Rocket Man going off the rails ( admittedly, theres a low but non zero chance of that) , the deals have already been made.

    Eeyores BTFO’D yet again.

    • Replies: @Brutusale
  51. Trump will convince Kim to get rid of his nuclear weapons without any help from the UN or China.

    Trump cannot convince Congress to give him his wall. Oops, Trump doesn’t need congressional approval, he can do this on his own. Trump has cucked on the wall.

    • Replies: @Jack Hanson
    , @MBlanc46
  52. @AnotherDad

    Thats funny cause I have friends out that way guarding the big beautiful wall being built.

    Man, is it hard being so low T you have to lie to try and preen for e cred on a niche blog?

    • Replies: @AnotherDad
  53. Anonymous[859] • Disclaimer says:
    @Charles Pewitt

    Holy shit, Christie doesn’t need a lap-band, he needs 24 months in a fat farm in Hoeryong. Take a few “el bees” off that round-eyed and round-bodied bitch.

    Christie makes Kim look svelte. And looking at Kim’s body you’d think his appetite is the reason for the North Korean famine.

  54. @attilathehen

    Lol no. Keep staying mad tho.

    • Replies: @attilathehen
  55. What did N Korea do to us again?

    USS Liberty? 9/11? Lavon Affair?

    War is coming. DC is occupied territory and they want war, they don’t care what Americans that pay for it want.
    Iran, Venezuela, China, everyone….

    • Replies: @Anon
  56. @Anon

    You’re right…That:

    Meanwhile, bored identity is still waiting for some adventurous Minnesota based America First Hole in the Wall to start offering tarred-&- feathered-to-order tiny ducks :


    Sailerites of America unite; you have nothing to lose but your food chains!

  57. @Daniel Chieh

    The Unz Review publishes articles with loaded words such as “Trump’s Strategy Working—He’s Maneuvered Democrats, RINOS, Into Favoring Foreigners Over Americans.”

    Even striving to adopt the perspective of a leftist wacko, I cannot figure what loaded* words are used in this headline. “Foreigners?” “Americans?” Has it come to that with these jackasses?

    *Loaded is itself itself a stupid adjective to describe any sort of word. Does the subscribed word come heaped with broccoli, bacon, chives, sour cream, and melted cheddar cheese, like a baked potato from Bennigans? Does it have a bullet in the chamber and a full magazine? Is it full of furniture and ready to be hauled to your new house in Nebraska, grandma’s attic and all? Help me out here….

    • LOL: Daniel Chieh
  58. Tyrion 2 says: • Website

    Anyone with any social intuition who pays attention can tell you that Trump is absolutely serious about avoiding foreign adventures.

  59. Tyrion 2 says: • Website

    If he could do that while being rich and loved and safe, why wouldn’t he want to do that? Trump’s job is to assure him of this.

    What half-decent human wouldn’t want to?

    Admittedly, the if is a big one, but as someone educated in Switzerland and only dictator through birth, he’s quite likely to not be more than a situational monster – so reasonable.

    • Replies: @TontoBubbaGoldstein
  60. Anonym says:

    Nobody here voted for Trump because of North Korea. As a matter of fact, nobody anywhere voted for Trump because of North Korea. If he does nothing substantive on immigration he can GTFO.

    Solving the Nork problem is a side quest, but a pretty cool, high reward side quest. The outcome is potentially a Nobel, one would hope you’d get some cool and powerful loot like a ring of media enrapture or a hammer of wall construction.

    If nothing else it may serve as a stark highlight of how the leftist quasi-religion infects organisations such as the Nobels where a black president can be awarded a peace prize for existing and a white citizenist-not-even-WN president can negotiate something thought practically impossible and still be overlooked.

    With you on the wall, that’s the main quest and major building must have begun by end of term 1 with preferably a lot more.

    • Agree: BenKenobi
  61. @benjaminl

    Not to mention how this Istanbuli Mandrake is also HuffPo contributor:

    “Turkey has attained the position of being an indispensable intermediary, partner and model country for the West.”

    “Syria is known to be behind the many acts of terror on Turkey’s 900-kilometer Syrian border.”

    “Turkey is now a powerful democratic and secular state of law.”

    “Turkey has always particularly opposed extremist organizations hostile to Christians and Jews in the region.”

    ” Israel and Turkey are not — and will not be — enemies.”

    Now you know.

  62. Zach says:

    Somehow or another this meeting with Kim fits into the Trump foreign policy as described here by Jeffrey Goldberg

  63. @Luke Lea

    Or as Lindsey Graham said: we’ll either have war or peace. That guy is a deep thinker!

    • Replies: @snorlax
  64. Berty says:

    People like peace and diplomacy, so any kind of agreement with NK will be seen as a plus for Trump.

  65. Pat Boyle says:


    I keep hearing the media pundits reminding everyone what a great actor Robert De Nero is, as a way of excusing his behavior. The problem is that I’m unconvinced. There are no clear and unambiguous benchmarks for acting so I will take a different tact. I will list some of the actors which I think are better actors than de Niro.

    Better actors list:

    Kevin Kline – he can sing, he can dance, he can move. He can play high drama (Sophie’s Choice). He can play loopy comedy (A Fish called Wanda)

    Michael Wincott – Some of the best actors play in supporting roles. Wincott is routinely brilliant.

    Johnathan Price – Like Kline he has range. He can play a villain or a milquetoast. He can do it all.

    Anthony Hopkins – I first saw him doing a turn in an action flic. Later he played scary, funny and everything in between.

    William H. Macy – Nothing more needs to be said. He lights up the screen.

    Feel free to add your own. Generally Hollywood hires really good actors because they have so much money at stake and there are so many choices of actors. There are exceptions like Glen Campbell in the original “True Grit”. Good movie with one terrible performance.

    But it general that guy up on the screen is a fine actor. De Niro just got lucky. He came along when there was a popular taste for Italian gangster films. He did that part easily but he never had much success outside that one fach.

    Even Keanu Reeves can play more different kind of roles than De Niro.

  66. snorlax says:

    War? Peace? Or Warp Speed?

    • Replies: @Charles Pewitt
  67. Anonym says:
    @Pat Boyle

    De Niro has turned in some great performances. He also has a negro fetish, had a couple mulattoish wives and mixed race children.

    I think his sexual tastes and genetic investment in the next generation likely colors his politics. If anything, his forays into political endorsement or disapproval are counterproductive. He’s like a politically opposite version of a paid-actor Jerry Springer Nazi, except he does it all pro bono. I think it’s a great outcome, one simply cannot pay an Oscar winning actor to vent spleen the way he does at every major public event he’s invited to. I just hope he keeps it up for another couple of years.

  68. Autistic Eeyores who think Trump can do whatever he wants because they don’t understand civics, you’ve got a 9th Circus judge that’s probably going to issue a nationwide injunction that says any squatamalan running at the border with their kids (think the ending of Elysium) suddenly can’t get arrested.

    Personally, I hope Trump ignores it, but the reality is that its Congress’ job to impeach judges who invent law like this, something I never hear you eeyores bray about. Instead its 100% DRUMPF 24/7 from you losers who would wring their hands with worry if Trump did go full Jackson with the courts.

  69. Anonym says:
    @Pat Boyle

    As to other roles, Awakenings, Raging Bull, The Deer Hunter – some great roles, De Niro definitely has range. He doesn’t always play Italian mobsters but is of course best known for those roles.

    Just as long as Trump doesn’t attend any plays starring De Niro. “Other than that Melania, how was the play?”

  70. Anon[274] • Disclaimer says:
    @Pat Boyle

    I’ll add two mob-movie contemporaries who usually get mentioned after him.

    Al Pacino (when he’s trying) was always heads and shoulders above DeNiro. It’s crazy to me that DeNiro gets top billing between the two of them.

    Joe Pesci got stuck playing second-banana but he is in another league. If Robert DeNiro’s career has been good for anything, it’s having projects which allowed this short, goofy guy a chance to shine on screen; and often, steal the show.

  71. @candid_observer

    Or we could claim they still had a nuclear program and invade them anyway.

    • Replies: @candid_observer
  72. TheBoom says:

    North Korea is at best a side show and at worst a diversion from the only issue that truly matters: immigration. If Trump doesn’t deliver on immigration every other accomplishment provides only a temporary benefit on our way to becoming South Africa Norte.

  73. @TontoBubbaGoldstein

    But why did we believe that Saddam had WMD?

    Most importantly, because for such a long time Saddam himself was claiming that he did.

    He thought that doing so would protect him from invasion. Didn’t work out that way.

    Point is, sincerity on Kim’s part is what he needs to get out of his fix.

  74. Beenede says:

    Barack Obama took Osama bin Laden out, and Donald Trump took Kim Jong Un out to dinner. That’s about it.

    Oh, well. Wisconsin had a catastrophic unemployment rate of 3.9% on election day 2016, so you can see how desperate they were to do something radical.

    • Replies: @Brutusale
    , @Jack D
  75. @Anon

    Always wondered where she got the name Theranos. I’d be suspicious about investing in a company that sounds like the name of a comic book supervillain.

  76. @Autochthon

    Does the subscribed word come heaped with broccoli, bacon, chives, sour cream, and melted cheddar cheese, like a baked potato from Bennigans? Help me out here….

    I hope this helps.

  77. nebulafox says:

    In Japan, they are called 引き籠り.

    I think “incel” is a misnomer unless you are unemployed and without resources. Prostitution exists for a reason. However, many of these guys are not types to particularly enjoy the process of one-night-stands, no matter how much they might feel the need to deny it, given the sex-obsession of American culture. They want stable mates. And that’s much trickier to achieve.

    (And while unemployed and without resources women can get sex-that’s just supply and demand, such is the gap that they can even get paid for sex-it will likely be dangerous sex with a partner that is disinterested in their health and safety at best and actively hostile to it at worst. Life sucks at the bottom, regardless of your gender.)

  78. @Pat Boyle

    DeNiro can play exactly one role – angry tough guy. What makes it funny is that he’s so short he wears platform shoes to compensate.

  79. @Jack Hanson

    The title of this article will be changed to Trump if he doesn’t get going on the wall:

  80. @Pat Boyle

    Seems like those older method actors lose their edge without an edgy 70s era New Wave auteur pushing them to be intense.

  81. Clyde says:
    @Pat Boyle

    Kevin Kline – he can sing, he can dance, he can move. He can play high drama (Sophie’s Choice). He can play loopy comedy (A Fish called Wanda)
    He always seemed like a stuck up phony to me. His only genius acting was inveigling Phoebe Cates into marriage.

    There are exceptions like Glen Campbell in the original “True Grit”. Good movie with one terrible performance.

  82. @27 year old

    So far everything is happening just like Trump’s critics said it would. Trump set no pre-conditions, he just agreed to meet with a mass-murdering Communist dictator on the dictator’s terms. If any other President tried this stunt he would have been excoriated by Republicans as a stooge of the left. It is also typical Trump to focus on imaginary issues rather than take on actual problems. Did anyone care about North Korea 18 months ago? Why do I care now? Why do I care about NFL players taking a knee? Since when has trade with Canada been an issue for anyone? Why do Trump supporters (like Steve) keep whinging that urban crime is a problem when it is at or near all-time lows? Especially for white people. Is the wall being built? No. Trump is a fraud, but we knew that already.

    I like European right-wingers. The Austrian government is actually doing things – shut down 6 mosques and expelled 130 fanatical Muslims. Stepped up immigration controls. That’s progress.

  83. @Peter Akuleyev

    Norks will be wearing Levi’s and horking McDoubles by the end of the year and you think this is a bad thing?

    The answers to most of your questions are documented here and elsewhere

    • Replies: @Peter Akuleyev
    , @Anon
  84. @Anthony Wayne

    Norks will be wearing Levi’s and horking McDoubles by the end of the year

    You know that is utter nonsense. Kim will be firmly in charge and the Norks will be wearing Chinese-made jeans and eating MOS burgers.

  85. Anon[371] • Disclaimer says:
    @The preferred nomenclature is...

    Trump has accomplished very little so far.

  86. Tyrion 2 says: • Website

    This is a moment that will reveal some of journalism’s worst people. Peace on the Korean peninsula and denuclearisation is as close as it is possible to get to an unmitigated good in the real world. Those who twist it into some sort of partisan or ideological attack on Trump cannot possibly be arguing in good faith. I actually still think/hope that practically none will fail this very modest test.

    • Replies: @Anon
    , @candid_observer
  87. Anon[371] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anthony Wayne

    Norks will be wearing Levi’s and horking McDoubles by the end of the year and you think this is a bad thing?

    But is it a good thing?

    Besides, who cares if NK gets nuclear weapons? China already has them.

    • Replies: @Anon
    , @PhysicistDave
  88. Anon[371] • Disclaimer says:
    @Tyrion 2

    An unmitigated good? It would deprive Koreans of an important means with which to defend themselves against China.

    As far as unmitigated goods: I would direct your attention to the eventuality of the Zionist regime extending voting rights to all Gentiles in Palestine and granting a right of return to the Gentiles it forced out in 1948 and 1967.

    • Troll: Tyrion 2
  89. Anon[274] • Disclaimer says:

    Outside, of promises to continue commitments to full denuclearization and leaving the past behind, the President is getting all the remains of American POW/MIAs back.

    If that’s all this amounts to, I think it’s still a very big win for President Trump.

  90. Anon[274] • Disclaimer says:

    We do, because the North Koreans know a lot about the Iranian program.

  91. Andrei Lankov is Russian, and one of the more perceptive analysts in North Korea. Here’s the Russian take:

    “We expected it would be a flop, but it’s floppier than anything we expected,” Andrei Lankov, a director at the Korea Risk Group – which owns and operates NK News – said. “The declaration is pretty much meaningless.”

    “The Americans could have extracted serious concessions, but it was not done,” he continued. “The North Koreans will be emboldened and the U.S. got nothing.”

  92. Anonymous[371] • Disclaimer says:
    @Peter Akuleyev

    “The Americans could have extracted serious concessions,”

    Such as?

  93. Anon[274] • Disclaimer says:
    @Peter Akuleyev

    …says yet another think-tank of experts whose livelihood depends on the old situation continuing.

    • Replies: @G Pinfold
  94. @Peter Akuleyev

    Peter Akuleyev quoted someone as saying:

    “The Americans could have extracted serious concessions, but it was not done,” he continued. “The North Koreans will be emboldened and the U.S. got nothing.”

    What exactly did North Korea get? Trump said in his press conference that the sanctions continue until further progress is made.

    If North Korea can be turned into the Taiwan of 60 years ago — a somewhat unpleasant authoritarian regime with a developing market economy — then in a few decades we will bee debating North Korea’s trade practices rather than their military threats.

    Baby Kim did not claw his way to the top: he was born into this role. It’s plausible that he wants an out: he’s riding a tiger and may well want to get off.

    I don’t know whether or not Trump can make this work, but somehow I suspect that Baby Kim would rather own the Houston Rockets than North Korea’s rockets!

  95. I hope someone in the Trump Administration is considering the simplest way to “denuclearize” North Korea: buy out all their top nuclear scientists and rocket engineers with, say, a lifelong pension of $40,000 per year, if they agree to spend the rest of their life in the West. If you buy out the top 1000 people, that should cripple North Korea’s capabilities in those fields.

    And, monetarily, that is peanuts for the USA.

    • Replies: @EdwardM
  96. @Anon

    Aono[371] wrote:

    Besides, who cares if NK gets nuclear weapons?

    Because they can sell them to “non-state actors.” Deterrence does not work so well against bad guys who have no territory to threaten with retaliation.

    • Replies: @Anon
    , @nebulafox
  97. G Pinfold says:

    Hallelujah. I don’t have the credentials to ‘agree’, so that will have to do.
    The warmongers are apoplectic. That’s no surprise. The interesting thing is who they turn out to be; msn journos and think tank ‘intellectuals’ are hotter for rat-a-tat than Lockheed Martin execs.

  98. Anon[187] • Disclaimer says:

    Yeah, I’m not sure how plausible that really is. And that was the same justification for the Iraq War.

    –Traceability, likelihood it would be held accountable anyways, morality. Why would NK even take the risk? Why would they sell to a non-state actor. If a nuclear bomb went off in NYC, you can be sure the United States would be adamant about cracking down on “rogue states.”

    A nuclearized Korea could be a useful check against China.

    • Replies: @PhysicistDave
  99. G Pinfold says:

    CNN is saying Trump hasn’t done any more than has (almost) been done many times in recent memory… and by ‘recent’ they mean 1993.
    In 1993, the world was run by men with chevron mustaches. A lot has gone wrong since. There is no comparison.

    • Replies: @Anthony Wayne
  100. G Pinfold says:

    Looking at CNN now, I can’t help thinking of the old ‘chickenhawk’ tag. It used to be that you were looking at a goggle-eyed neocon thinking ‘I’m not sure this guy is a real Captain America.’
    Now, you listen to someone lecture you in full gayvoice about how Trump has insufficiency enraged his interlocutor (who btw has actual nukes).

    • Replies: @nebulafox
  101. • Replies: @Brutusale
  102. G Pinfold says:

    Insufficiently… obviously.

  103. TTSSYF says:

    Only because so many people are ill-informed about it. I agree, immigration is the more immediate problem, but moving in a positive direction with North Korea is a nice add-on. It doesn’t have to be a zero-sum game.

  104. unit472 says:

    There are no ‘leakers’ in the North Korean ‘Deep State’ and this drives the MSM insane. Trump controls the horizontal. Trump controls the vertical and they cannot stand it.

  105. @G Pinfold

    In the minds of many newsfolks the forward flow of time stopped some time around 1993. For some, it stopped around 1968.

  106. nebulafox says:

    And even with traditional nation-states: the Iranian and Pakistani nuclear programs have ties to North Korea. Since North Korean leaders believe all non-Koreans are varying degrees of inferior scum (although I suspect-without hard evidence-that Kim himself might personally believe this less than some of the military guys who would be his alternative), they don’t really have qualms about selling anything to anyone: and back in the 1990s when everything looked like it was collapsing, this was one of the few ways the Norks could raise hard cash.

    That doesn’t mean I support Operation Korean Freedom, though. The idea that any war in Northeast Asia will be “limited” is delusional-not in that part of the world. Seoul alone is a major killbox, Japan is right next door, and even China wouldn’t be immune to a possible attack if the regime in Pyongyang feels in its downfall that it was “betrayed”. Best overall result for everybody involved is Kim Jong Un deciding to take the Vietnam route and develop a modern economy under a system that’s still highly authoritarian. There’s some pretty good evidence out there that this is exactly what he wants, judging from what he’s done both inside North Korea and in foreign policy since taking power and securing power in the simultaneous purges of both the older generals who stood against his economic plans and politicos who were deemed too subservient to Beijing (including his own uncle). In some ways, he’s more ruthless (in part because he had to be), but he’s also clearly thinking about the future in a way Kim Jong Il wasn’t. He wants a system with him unquestionably in charge, but might want something more amenable to building a modern economy and having partners outside of China-which North Korea already has started on-than the Kims As Deity treatment his father was into.

    But it won’t be what the world gets if Bolton and the CNN crew convince him that we have the Gaddafi treatment in mind. Above all else, he wants survival, and the American record of the past 25 years wouldn’t give dictators the impression that our word should be trusted.

  107. Paul Rise says:

    Dictatorships like NK can’t survive the optics of their living god leader shaking hands and smiling with the evil US president.

    I don’t know if its a big success for the US, but its a disaster for NK. No way to sustain their propaganda messages about the west now.

  108. @Anon

    I want my pony now mommy! No not the White pony, I want a pink one. Take back the White one now and get me a pink one!

    The residents of autism town are as strident in their never Trumpism as the Goldbergs and Kristols or as hating as the demented Hollyweird Left ala DeNiro.

  109. nebulafox says:
    @G Pinfold

    I have a very simple proposal, as far as that goes: give a special military enlistment option for just 1 year of service on the DMZ. We’ll call it the “Lindsey Graham Volunteer Division”. We need to do something about the DPRK? OK, here you go. Here’s your chance. It’s only one year of your life-you’ll get right back to the Beltway after you are done, if you want. And no need to worry about getting stuck elsewhere: you’ll go to Korea right after you get out of Fort Benning to get started on fighting for Freedom. Enlisted rifleman, doing patrols in the snow, etc.

    While you are there, you might learn Korean, get more acquainted with the DPRK as it is (well, as close to it as is realistically possible) rather than as you were taught in the classroom, and come back to DC to apply that. Or you might stay and help refugees who’ve made it to the South: many of whom struggle with the basics of living in a modern, 1st world hyper-capitalist society, with PTSD to boot. If you are feeling really risky, you can take your chances and help funnel people through China.

    I’m sure we’re going to get tons of volunteers from the Beltway, CNN, and all the rest. Tons. I think Graham is a nut, but he at least put his money where his mouth was in Iraq during the first round. Those CNN guys, on the other hand…

  110. Brutusale says:
    @bored identity

    They’re among the toughest bastards in any military service.

    • Agree: PiltdownMan
    • Replies: @bored identity
  111. TheJester says:
    @Charles Pewitt

    I voted for Trump to break the post-WWII concordat … the one in which the United States replaced the bankrupt British Empire so that we could, in turn, put ourselves on the road to imperial bankruptcy.

    Empire also implies the social rot of globalization as an “empire” invites alien peoples, religions, and cultures into its body politic. The current plight of the United Kingdom is an example of where this leads as the cultural rot reaches its reductio ad absurdum.

    The connection of empire to bankruptcy is simple: Eventually, the empire has to “buy” the loyalty of its subject peoples and allies. The wealth from the “core” is progressively transferred to its subject peoples and allies. It’s naked bribery. Let’s use Rome as a classic example of what happens and what it costs as an “empire” improves the lives of its subjects.

    Although I detest his subservience to the Jews, I’m happy with what Trump is going to the EU and the dollar. Isn’t there a term for this … “creative destruction” … before it’s too late?

    Many of my relatives are appalled by my views. They also want change. But they think Bernie Sanders has better ideas … perhaps because it would be easier to complete our globalization and transition from Cultural Marxism to Economic Marxism than return to pre-imperial cultural, political, and economic values.

  112. Brutusale says:

    The Three Harpies took out bin Laden. The Magic Mulatto had little to do with it.

    Back to your village, idiot.

  113. @Peter Akuleyev

    Your posting career is non stop BLUMPF! and eeyore doomism. You have constantly been wrong (see spectacularly: DACA), and look like you ain’t changing a thing.

    Keep on living on your knees, bucko.

  114. JSM says:

    Ya believe that, do ya?

    The Navy Seals found a guy dependent on dialysis living in Pakistan a half mile from Pakistan’s military academy, offed him and then tossed his body in the ocean (where, conveniently, us skeptics can’t see for sure it’s him) in keeping with Islamic tradition, cuz we’re nice like that.

    Ya believe that hooey, do ya?

    More likely Binny was already dead, maybe long dead, so Obama decided to make political hay with “We GOT ‘im.”

  115. DRA says:
    @Anonymous Bosch

    Perhaps they will give the Nobel to Kim!?

  116. Jack D says:

    Wisconsin had a catastrophic unemployment rate of 3.9% on election day 2016, so you can see how desperate they were to do something radical.

    The unemployment rate doesn’t tell the whole story. If you have given up looking for a job, you are not counted. If you have gone from a $30/hr plus benefits job in the steel mill to making $10/hr stocking shelves at Walmart, that doesn’t show either.

    Even if the unemployment rate was zero, both Obama and Hillary made it abundantly clear that they had nothing but contempt for the working class whites of Wisconsin – couldn’t they just hurry up and die already? Black people are bought off cheaply – the Democrats send them goodies – food stamp and stuff and they are loyal Democrat voters in return (and besides, no politician of any party would dare publicly disrespect blacks nowadays the way that Hillary openly disrespected non-rich whites). But white people (even in the degraded state that they often find themselves in today) have more dignity than that and are not going to vote for someone who openly spits on them.

    If the economy was ok it was no thanks to Obama and the Democrats who use the government to wage lawfare against businesses – they tax them to death, they drown them in red tape, they enact all sorts of anti-discrimination, environmental, OSHA, etc. regulations that make it impossible to do business profitably and then they allow goods from Chinese and Mexican factories who follow none of these rules to come in and surprise surprise the imported goods are cheaper. But you have a $12/hr job at the Amazon warehouse (at least until they get the robots going) and food stamps in between jobs so what are you complaining about whitey?

  117. @Tyrion 2

    Peace on the Korean peninsula and denuclearisation is as close as it is possible to get to an unmitigated good in the real world.

    I agree.

    It’s amazing to see how many refuse to acknowledge this obvious point.

    Of course, the thing isn’t really done unless and until N Korea actually implements verifiable denuclearization — but that was always going to be true, no matter what paper got signed at this stage.

    From their reaction to Singapore, I guess the media and the punditry have figured that they hadn’t yet destroyed enough of their own credibility, and needed to torch it all. They seemed to be very worried that someone out there in America is actually believing anything they had to say.

    • Agree: Tyrion 2
    • Replies: @Jack D
  118. Jack D says:

    Hard to pay for a wall in Brownsville when we are already paying for a wall in Seoul. Why are we still paying for S. Korean’s defense costs with money that we don’t have anymore because we sent it all to S. Korea to buy Samsung phones and KIA cars? And the American troops are there to act as human shields in war – any N. Korean attack on S. Korea automatically becomes another Pearl Harbor for America too. Shouldn’t we get to decide in a cool way whether we want to spend American lives defending S. Korea or not?

    This is win/win for Trump – time to get the US out of the imperialism business. Maybe in 1952 it made sense to keep the Soviets from dominating the world but what’s our excuse now? Military industrial complex loves it the way it is. Pentagon brass will miss the war games – lots of fun. Military contractors will miss having all that fuel burned and all the wear and tear and expended ammo that needs to be replaced. But what’s in it for the rest of us?

    And why can’t Trump do BOTH – bring peace to Korea AND a secure border at home? One does not exclude the other. Raising Trump’s political capital (and this absolutely does, which is why the left is so eager to spin it negatively) only helps his domestic agenda.

    • Replies: @nebulafox
  119. Jack D says:

    From their reaction to Singapore, I guess the media and the punditry have figured that they hadn’t yet destroyed enough of their own credibility, and needed to torch it all. They seemed to be very worried that someone out there in America is actually believing anything they had to say.

    Very funny but people (even nutty leftists) are more rational than this. The MSM (what is left of it) realizes that they no longer have a viable business model as (ostensibly – in fact they were always leftist but used to try to hide it) neutral reporters. The only way they can stay in business is by picking sides (mostly the left side) so that is what they are doing. Better to lose 1/2 of your audience than to lose all of it.

    I am glad that they are dropping all pretense of bi-partisanship – it was always a scam and a loaded game anyway. Trump has made it clear that he is not interested in being a polite sucker – he will not extend good faith to people who treat him with bad faith, whether they are reporters or foreign leaders. The “paradox” that Trump treats Kim better than Trudeau is not a paradox at all – Trump would rather deal with an honest thug than with a back stabbing “democrat”.

    • Agree: Johann Ricke
    • Replies: @snorlax
    , @Hank Yobo
  120. @Jack D

    Excellent post. Even if that poster was just a troll.

  121. snorlax says:
    @Jack D

    It’s partially business, but mostly ideology and Trump derangement. If they were just concerned about viable business models, they would split 50/50 on which side they favor, instead of everyone vs. Fox. And Roseanne would still have her show.

  122. Steve I have to assume the hurt fee fees from my posts affect your tin cup, otherwise I can’t imagine why my milquetoast posts are still stuck in your moderation queue.

  123. jim jones says:

    Trump knows that Fatboy is trapped and needs an escape route which preserves some of his dignity. I expect Trump to be generous in the negotiations.

  124. @Brutusale


    Who should bored identity trust less – to the Lefty Godfather of Magic Realism , or to the Fake News Diffusion & Osnosis?

  125. Matra says:
    @Peter Akuleyev

    Surprising to see this particular poster repeating Russian talking points.

  126. Sean says:

    To the surprise of US intelligence China sent 3 million troops to defend the North during the Korean war, and US troops got steamrollered, but that could never happen again because the US would not make the mistake again. No, the US is no making an entirely new mistake of thinking that Kim is not the sock puppet of decepticon China, which is intent on distracting Trump from the mercantist sack of the West.

    • Replies: @Anon
    , @mobi
    , @Anonymous
    , @Joe Stalin
  127. @Jack Hanson

    Yawn. You want my pictures? I was both at the Otay Mesa crossing and the beach–unimpressive. They just *started* construction on some upgraded sections–supposedly 1/2 mile or so inland from the beach–the weekend I was there.

    Thats funny cause I have friends out that way guarding the big beautiful wall being built.

    So you have friends LARPing as “wall protectors”. I couldn’t even get to the site where construction was starting up. That’s a heavily guarded/controlled spot–the last place that needs protection. If your buddies actually want to do something try interdicting some Mexican smuggling gangs out in the mountains in Arizona, where there’s no wall at all and the border patrol is thin on the ground.


    We’re 17 months and counting into the Trump presidency. We’ve got some, wall prototype demo projects and some already-in-the-works upgrades. That’s bureaucracy speed.

    If something is important, critical you prioritize and push it. As President you can make your opponents political lives hell. (Where’s that project for your district? Oh. And here is the Pres in to campaign for your opponent–really against you, to name you as an obstructionist.) You can act like it’s an emergency and send down the army–spend money already in our bloated defense budget. Make the crisis a crisis, the crisis.

    Instead, Trump has allowed himself to be distracted off into every nook and cranny of the b.s. the swamp throws up. And turned into cuck on the DACA illegals. Everyday the immigration drip-drip-drip is still making us weaker.

    I’m glad we have Trump. But it’s not an impressive performance so far.

    • Agree: Autochthon
    • Replies: @Jack Hanson
  128. Flip says:

    If Bernie Madoff is in jail, she should be too.

  129. Anon[206] • Disclaimer says:

    China, which is intent on distracting Trump from the mercantist sack of the West.


  130. @Anon

    Anon[187] wrote to me:

    Yeah, I’m not sure how plausible that really is. And that was the same justification for the Iraq War.

    Indeed, but the WMDs in Iraq were lies: Kim really does have nukes. And, fortunately, we (i.e., Trump et al.) are talking peace in the case of North Korea, not war. (By and large, businessmen don’t like war — war is bad for business and other sane human activities.)

    Anon[187] also wrote:

    Traceability, likelihood it would be held accountable…

    I can tell you, speaking as a physicist, that I am skeptical on traceability. I think there is a good chance that “traceability” is just a bluff to deter people like Kim.

    • Replies: @Anon
  131. Anon[206] • Disclaimer says:

    Indeed, but the WMDs in Iraq were lies: Kim really does have nukes.

    It doesn’t matter. As long as Saddam reasonably could have eventually produced a nuclear weapon or even a dirty bomb, that rationale applies.

    As to traceability, it wouldn’t even have to possible forensically. If it could reasonably be inferred, politically, logistically, or otherwise, that should be enough for deterrence.


    • Replies: @PhysicistDave
  132. anon[277] • Disclaimer says:

    Lee Soo-jung, an anthropologist at Duksung Women’s University, acknowledged the painful “historical irony” of benefitting from Trump. In a fairer world, she tells me, “The citizens of the world would be able to vote for the U.S. President.”
    An elaboration of the zeroth Amendment. An irony is that Trump gave away everything by conceding things he wanted to do anyway. Bolton would have apoplexy over any military reduction if he wasn’t a team member.

    Trump actually wants to dial down the military. What a scandal..

    • Replies: @PhysicistDave
    , @anon
  133. anon[277] • Disclaimer says:

    And thank god there was no bloviation over human rights. Nuking the Norks for human rights, that makes sense.

  134. @snorlax

    I hereby accuse Canadian actor William Shatner of wearing a girdle during the filming of Star Trek. Shatner liked the cheesy potato poutine the Frenchy’s in Quebec eat. Yum, Yum says Shatner.

    I fully support President Trump’s treatment of the rude Frenchy Canadian Trudeau. Trudeau is well known as a globalizer twat who pushes mass immigration and sovereignty-sapping free trade.

    French Canadians are great. I love them. After Trumpy kills NAFTA we’ll have a picnic to celebrate. Quebec would have been its own nation if only French people voted in that referendum a few decades back.

    President Trump must abrogate the North American Free Trade Agreement immediately just like he killed the Iran deal.

  135. @Anon

    Anon[206] wrote to me:

    It doesn’t matter. As long as Saddam reasonably could have eventually produced a nuclear weapon or even a dirty bomb, that rationale applies.

    Well… seems to me there is a rather large jump between “reasonably could” and “now possesses.” Also, in the case of Saddam, knowledgeable people, who were not bleeding-heart peaceniks, said Saddam was not close to nukes (I have in mind, e.g., Scott Ritter).

    Anon also wrote:

    If [traceability] could reasonably be inferred, politically, logistically, or otherwise, that should be enough for deterrence.

    Perhaps. But, better to turn North Korea into a normal country. After all, Baby Trudeau may be a weenie, but at least we are arguing with him over trade, not nuclear holocausts!

  136. @anon

    anon[277] wrote:

    An irony is that Trump gave away everything by conceding things he wanted to do anyway. Bolton would have apoplexy over any military reduction if he wasn’t a team member.

    Indeed. As the saying goes, “Keep your friends close and your enemies closer.” I’m beginning to think Trump may be smarter than I’d thought.

  137. mobi says:

    Sure, and let’s remember, too, that China bankrolled, armed, and sheltered the Vietnamese, their ‘fellow Asian commies’, around the same time (more recently, in fact), while they dragged America through the bloodiest, costliest muck in modern American history (much worse than Korea).

    Today, the US is slowly but surely peeling Vietnam onto ‘our side’, for whatever’s coming.

    Largely, or exclusively, because the Vietnamese actually despise their ‘fellow Asian commies’ more than they despise anyone else – more than they despise all others put together, in fact (no, I didn’t just get that from Apocalypse Now, but also from extensive personal experience – it’s even stronger than the Korean version).

    Remaining blind to that opportunity, because of our own historical experience, would be a geopolitical own-goal.

    So my point was – despite the obvious North Korea-China history, it is most likely expedient-only for the Norks, and that they actually look down upon, and resent, their Chinese big-brother, perhaps as much as the Vietnamese do, in a different form. Possibly even more than their South Korean brethren most certainly do.

    So don’t close our eyes to possibilities to turn the tables on the Chinese here, either, based on what happened 65 years ago.

    65 + 10 years ago, America was arming the Chinese, while it nuked the Japanese.

    And Trump is simultaneously the most creative towards upending China’s assumptions about North Korea, and least blind to their ‘mercantilist sack of the West’, of any President, ever. Obviously, then, there needn’t be any contradiction. In fact, they’re two facets of the same contest.

    China has no real friends. It’s their single biggest weakness. More confidence about that is called for, and Trump’s got it.

    That’s it.

    • Replies: @nebulafox
  138. Olorin says:

    Bennigan’s is still a thing?

    They used to have good margaritas.

    • Replies: @Autochthon
  139. @Peter Akuleyev

    If nationalism does become a force in Europe, Trump is far less likely to intervene or punish them than Hillary or any other president would.

    Trump has already expressed support for various anti EU movements, which is one of the primary breaks on European nationalism, he has been critical of Merkel’s policies and dared to address the issue of Islam and terrorism. What other Western leader has come close to all that?

    So from a European perspective, we should all the behind Trump. I am personally praying for another election victory for Trump in part because of the 8 year window that it will have given Europeans to get their/our act together.

  140. Anonymous[400] • Disclaimer says:

    Actually there were intel reports about Chinese movements, it’s just that they were dismissed or ignored by MacArthur and his staff, which consisted of flunkies and yes men that MacArthur liked to surround himself with. It was less a failure of US intel and more of a failure by MacArthur and the army brass.

    • Replies: @Joe Stalin
    , @Sean
  141. @Brutusale

    Hillary must have enjoyed being the more feminine looking of that triumvirate. That is a female behind Rice and Clinton, right?

    • Replies: @Autochthon
    , @Brutusale
  142. @It's All Ball Bearings

    Not Rice. The Amabadeen thing married to Weiner McJailbait.

  143. @AnotherDad

    Lol no they’re not LARPing, you sad little cuck. You’re what, 60, and you don’t get how US Civics work and that the President isn’t a God Emperor? That the neat little scenario you invented has no bearing in big people land?

    The wall is indeed being built. The fact you have to play semantics games to stay inside the slave mentality box you live in is just sad tho. I hope your kids have more sack than you.

    How about this: Instead of doing your autistic “Im gonna emote how bored I am while I write a novel” LARP, you figure out who controls the purse, and get back with us with yet another tired, tryhard essay that will likely be wrong, yet again.

  144. @Sean

    “It is quite possible that the Chinese attack at Chosin, and along the Chongchon in western Korea, was
    greatly aided by information supplied by a quadrumvirate of British spies: Donald Maclean, Harold Kim
    Philby, Guy Burgess, and Anthony Blunt, four of the most notorious British traitors of all time all of whom
    had been recruited as Communist agents while as school at Cambridge in the early 1930s.”

  145. Hank Yobo says:
    @Jack D

    Re: Trump’s “good faith”

    Perhaps “Le Grand Fromage” should have learned something about Hill 677 before he indecorously left the G7 Summit for Singapore.

  146. @Olorin

    Alive & kicking.

    Decent Monte Christo too, although that’s not even an Irish sandwich….

  147. nebulafox says:
    @Jack D

    Absent nukes, the ROKA would kick the DPRK’s butt anyway. The 1960s where the North was richer than the South, this ain’t.

    Of course, therein lies the rub: absent nukes. When you look at how North Korea (and Pakistan) is treated relative to the Middle Eastern dictators we’ve gotten rid of, it’s no wonder Iran wants the bomb so badly.

    > The “paradox” that Trump treats Kim better than Trudeau is not a paradox at all – Trump would rather deal with an honest thug than with a back stabbing “democrat”.

    So would I. As should be the case for any sane American President who has any business in foreign policy. Dictator? Not nice? Who the hell cares?! Going abroad in search of monsters to destroy hasn’t turned out very well for the American people or nation-just a few individuals. The internal political system of a nation shouldn’t be the barometer for whether we talk business with them, whether they are serious about talking business and has something concrete to offer us does.

    Ever since 1992, the United States has taken off from anything remotely resembling realism. I’m aware that this is America: we’re always going to have that streak in our nature, and any leader must account for that. But primarily duty-based foreign policy, whether it is neocons, neoliberals, or the dissenting left pushing it, invariably has proven to be a disaster for the United States. It’s time to stop digging. It’s time to focus inward and fix up the social rot and deep structural socioeconomic issues we face at home. All these people blathering on about moral leadership don’t seem to understand that you have to be something that other societies want to emulate.

    • Replies: @snorlax
  148. J1234 says:

    All of the sudden, the leftist media is anti-communist. One NYT columnist even brought up the horrors of Stalin, so as to give a frame of reference for the North Korean leader. And how could Trump ever associate with such a person and give him validation? I’m guessing it was the first time she ever uttered the name “Stalin” in one of her columns, at least in a negative context.

  149. AKAHorace says:
    @Peter Akuleyev

    European right wingers have a party, so that when they win elections they control the government. Trump has to deal not only with the Democrats but a lot of the Republicans who are pro Amnesty and Big Business.

    A lot of the European right wingers are also only right wing on immigration. Not sure that it is helpful to call them right wing.

  150. nebulafox says:

    The story is more complicated than that: Le Duan always blamed the Chinese (and the French, and Ho Chi Minh) for partitioning Vietnam in the first place in 1954. Chinese laborers in North Vietnam were always kept under strict watch, segregated from the rest of the populace: they were never trusted. China would lose favor in Hanoi after ’68 and the failure of the Tet Offensive. By the early 1970s, Hanoi’s traditional balancing act had given way to a decided pro-Soviet tilt. During Linebacker, what we had to worry about was the accidental deaths of a couple of Soviet sailors in Haiphong harbor, not ticking off the Chinese.

    That being said, I completely agree. The North Korean regime runs off of potent Korean racial ultra-nationalism, meaning they despise anybody else by definition: the Chinese are a distasteful necessity. Not to be despised in the same way the Yankees or the Japanese are, but there’s a reason any North Korean woman caught in China pregnant and sent to the camps automatically gets a visit to the abortionist.

    And that’s before we get to the fact that Kim Jong Un purged anybody too close to the Chinese in 2012 and 2013-once again proving that he’s not his old man. He wants to not have all his foreign policy eggs in one basket.

    >It’s their single biggest weakness.

    It’s also their single biggest strength. The Chinese being openly honest about the fact that they are there for business deals and strategic concerns, aka, naked self-interest, has worked very well for them in Africa relative to the State Department’s approach. It’s also improving a lot more lives there, in concrete terms, than our approach.

    Nations have interests, not friends. There’s no love matches in foreign policy, despite what all the clowns on Capitol Hill (whether they are Democrats crying for Merkel or AIPAC clowns in the GOP) will tell you: just marriages of convenience and the occasional bit of adultery. And that’s OK! Nations can cut deals, put parameters on competition, and even mutually improve each other’s lives. But it’s long past time the US wake up to reality here.

  151. anon[104] • Disclaimer says:

    Maybe they can’t say it. But Trump may be clearing the deck for Iran.

    Pivot away from Asia. OK by me.

  152. snorlax says:

    I’d put the point where the GOP abandoned realism (the Democrats of course never adopted it in the first place) in 1986, when the Reagan administration shivved, in the name of “human rights,” longtime US friend and treaty ally Marcos, in favor of the openly anti-American opposition.

    Singapore, at the time, was considering signing a formal treaty of alliance with the US, and Marcos’ treatment understandably spooked them off. A formal alliance would only serve to increase their visibility and put them next on the US media/State Dept. “human rights violator” hit list. (And as it turned out, treaty allies South Korea and Taiwan were high on the list).

    Not coincidentally, Marcos’ defenestration was also followed by Deng Xiaoping purging “liberals” in the Communist Party of China.

  153. @Anonymous

    “The Chinese, as dedicated students of Sun Tzu, had one other great asset – guile. If the UN Command could be made
    to believe the Chinese had deployed only token forces, UNC forces could be led to advance into the mountainous
    where the terrain would offset some of the Chinese disadvantage. UNC forces could then be held there until additional
    Chinese reinforcement could arrive. Then a major counteroffensive might achieve great surprise and shock, perhaps
    The solution was a coordinated campaign of deception. The objective was to make the initial CCF forces in Korea
    appear much smaller than they were; then, when the main offensive was launched, to make the available forces look
    much larger than they were. There is no single source which says this was planned and coordinated but the six elements
    of the deception plan did not all occur simultaneously by accident.
    The key to the plan was to capitalize on American technological advantage and provide misleading order of battle
    information. A networkd of radio operators transmitting imaginary traffic were used to simulate additional units
    assembling in Manchuria. General Nie Rongzhen, the PLA’s acting chief of staff during the Korean War, had practiced
    a variation of that technique in the Wutai Mountains of North China while withdrawing before a Japanese offensive in
    the spring of 1941. As will be seen, much of the CCF order of battle in Manchuria obtained by Willoughby had to have
    come from traffic analysis by ASA units. Had that information come from an agent network, or a highly placed agent,
    such a source would surely have been able to warn of large forces crossing into Korea. Deceptive plain text traffic, such
    as the announcement of Lin Piao as the potential Chinese commander in Korea supplemented the effort.

  154. Anonymous[422] • Disclaimer says:

    Jong-Un’s ostensible mother Ko Yong-Hui was born and raised in Osaka, Japan, and probably spoke better Japanese than Korean until her untimely demise in Moscow.

    The Norkistani creme de la creme reads Japanese and deeply respects Japanese culture and civilizational achievement.

    In particular, the Norkistanis were so impressed by Japan’s war-time cult of ethno-nationalism that they adopted it as the state religion of Norkistan under the new name juche.

  155. NickG says:
    @bored identity

    Singapore’s Gurkhas are part of the police service, not the military. Though many have seen military service overseas. The Indian army maintains Gurkha troops – indeed India maintains some 100,000 of them, so has more Gurkhas than the entire strength of the British Army and Royal Marines combined (about 78,000 for the Army and 7,000 for the Royal Marines). The Brits transferred some to the British Army after India’s independence in 1947. The Brits maintain 2 infantry battalions of Gurkhas, as well as various support and logistics contingents. One battalion is stationed in Brunei who, in addition to the British infantry battalion, employ their own Gurkhas.

    Singapore’s founding premier – Lee Kuan Yew – employed Gurkhas as body guards after his experience during the ignoble fall of British Singapore to the Japs in Feb 1942. This after seeing the Gurkhas and Scottish troops being notable in maintaining a proud bearing after the British capitulation under the awful British General Percival.

    The other sub-text reason, is that he didn’t trust Muslim Malays who make up a significant minority of Singapore’s population, to be his bodyguards apropos of the separation, or rather ejection, from Malaysia in 1965. And and having exclusive Han Chinese bodyguards would have appeared divisive. Utilising Gurkhas in the role sidestepped this.

  156. EdwardM says:

    Nobody here voted for Trump because of North Korea. As a matter of fact, nobody anywhere voted for Trump because of North Korea. If he does nothing substantive on immigration he can GTFO.

    As for your last sentence, fine.

    But for the first part, I disagree. People voted for Trump because he was the antidote to Obama’s groveling, appeasement, and apologizing for America. I think that, even though the media will always mostly hate him, he is slowly demonstrating the benefits of a muscular (but not militaristic) negotiating posture with foreign states. With Kim, he probably comes across as tough and maybe just a little bit crazy, which is the only way to get through to third-world despots.

  157. EdwardM says:

    But we don’t know who these people are, and they would be risking their and their families’ lives to consider such an offer.

    Sure, Kim Jong-Un and his immediate family could take a sinecure and live somewhere in rich exile, but the invisible second and third level of people propping up the regime — and making millions in arms trading, smuggling from China, skimming profits from state companies, or other regime-approved sidelines — have the most to lose. They are the vested interests that could scuttle any deal and create chaos, depending on how firmly Kim is in control.

  158. Sean says:

    Ray Cline was not on McArthur’s staff. Cline went on to be head of the CIA, which perhaps learned its lesson because it was always skeptical of victory in Vietnam being achievable. Amy Chua says the Chinese merchants of Vietnam were the real targets of the communist movement, and the Chinese minority got expelled as boat people of course. Fear of provoking a Chinese intervention in Vietnam was the main reason the US army commanders were not allowed to take decisive action that might have won the war.

    • Replies: @Anon
  159. Anon[206] • Disclaimer says:

    Iran, Venezuela, China, everyone…

    What do these countries have to do with the rest of your comment?

  160. Anon[996] • Disclaimer says:

    Fear of provoking a Chinese intervention in Vietnam was the main reason the US army commanders were not allowed to take decisive action that might have won the war.

    That is curious. If the Chinese merchants of Vietnam were the real targets of communism, wouldn’t China have favored decisive action by US commanders against communism?

    • Replies: @Sean
  161. Brutusale says:
    @It's All Ball Bearings

    You’ll have to ask its handsome husband, Cass Sustein.

  162. Sean says:

    China had expelling the US from Vietnam as a priority so the internal hostility was a secondary one. The underlying external reality destined to eventually come though was that a near neighbour is a natural enemy and a country on the far side of an enemy is a friend (leapfrogging). The enemy of north Vietnam was the US client state in South until the country became one. China had viewed the US presence in south Vietnam as a threat that made the north an essential ally. When Vietnam was united largely because of Chinese help, Vietnam ceased to be an ally of China and attacked and conquered China’s ally Cambodia. Then in 1979 China attacked Vietnam’s northern provinces to teach it a lesson and distract it from Cambodia. And Vietnam expelled their Chinese minority. Kim is not yet in the position where the US has been expelled from the Korean peninsula, and until then he can count on the Chinese. Kim has no fear of US attack because the US is not going to make the Korean War mistake again. China needs Kim to keep Trump’s economic nationalism under control. Kim will never let Trump off the hook.

    • Replies: @Joe Stalin
  163. Anon[324] • Disclaimer says:

    Thank you for the reply. What do you mean that, “Kim will never let Trump off the hook”?

  164. @Sean

    But South Korea could make their own thermonuclear weapons and we could just leave. No reason at all for the US to be in SK after 65 years. Don’t really have a problem with two nuclear armed Koreas. Pakistan and India are both nuclear armed and we live with that. Right now, the NorK have a significant advantage over SK if a war breaks out and they know it.

  165. MBlanc46 says:

    “Trump cucked on the wall”. I’d say that a more accurate statement is “Trump was never serious about the wall. It got good response at campaign rallies, so he kept saying it. But he never meant it.”

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