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[Insert seamen/submarine joke here.]

From the Washington Post:

By Deanna Paul May 19

Sailors aboard a U.S. Navy submarine circulated sexually explicit lists that ranked female crew members, an investigation found. The lists, first reported Friday by Military.com, were uncovered through a Freedom of Information Act request.

The 74-page investigative report reveals two lists — one with Yelplike star ratings on the women and another containing “lewd and sexist comments” beside each woman’s name, according to Military.com.

In February 2018, the guided-missile submarine USS Florida became the second to integrate female members. The misconduct came to light four months later, when two sailors aboard the Florida brought the lists to a superior officer, reporting that they were stored on an internal computer network and updated regularly, Military.com reported.

And that, children, is how Mark Zuckerberg became a billionaire. Good night.

At the time, the submarine employed 32 women in its 173-person crew.

The lists — which Military.com characterizes as “rape lists” — were described as ranking “females by appearances, characteristics and various sexual acts the creators of the list wish to perform with them,” including “aggressive sexual activity.” The lists do “not reference non-consensual acts,” the report said, according to Military.com, noting that a search of submarine networks by commanding officer Capt. Gregory Kercher and a forensic test by the Naval Criminal Investigative Service did not locate either list.

The officers reported the existence of the lists in early June, the outlet reported. By the time the complaint reached Kercher, the investigation alleged, the sexual-assault-prevention point person, an equal-opportunity manager and Kercher’s higher-up adviser had already been notified about the lists, too.

Kercher, who did not respond to The Washington Post’s request for comment, did not open a formal investigation or discuss the allegations with his command, according to Military.com. Instead, he purportedly addressed the problem by identifying crew members who were accessing and sharing the lists.

By means that are unclear, Navy officials above Kercher found out about the lists and conducted a formal investigation while the submarine was in the Indian Ocean.

By the way, is it standard procedure to identify in the press even which ocean a submarine was in? Granted, as big oceans go, the Indian Ocean is bigger than most …

The date the investigation began is unknown.

[Defense seeks pause in Navy SEAL case while probing spying]

The investigation concluded that “trust up and down the chain of command was nonexistent,” according to Military.com.

With rumors swirling, relations among shipmates deteriorated. One woman told Military.com that she began to “question all males on the boat.” Another said she felt compelled to send photos of the lists to family members at home; she worried that the chain of command would “sweep it under the rug.”

Rear Adm. Jeff Jablon, then-commander of Submarine Group 10, wrote in a letter obtained by Military.com that few crew members knew what, if any, action had been taken by higher-ups.

“Significant numbers of females became concerned for their safety,” he wrote, “and male members who learned of the list were equally repulsed,” the outlet reports.

As a result of the investigation, Kercher was fired; he had held the position for five months, during which there were also complaints of high workloads. Jablon said Kercher fell “far short of expected standards and norms for an event of this magnitude.”

The USS Florida carries 154 Tomahawk cruise missiles. I don’t know if any are armed with nuclear warheads. It used to be that missile sub captains were chosen in part for a calm, even-keeled disposition, but apparently in today’s Navy, Captain Kercher’s failure to freak-out over this got him fired.

 
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  1. Insert seamen/submarine joke here.

    It beats the poopdeck when it was just male sailors!

  2. Why are you posting Onion articles from 20 years ago?

    • Agree: MarcB.
  3. Lagertha says:

    I soooo wish you would do a post about the Military in Finalnd. Women do not serve. Since 1945 Finland decided it is too much trouble to mix the sexes. Every boy who reaches 18 must serve. They can postpone until 28. My childhood friends said this was the best times of their lives (one year) when they had to serve.

    As much as Finns revere saunas…and accept their bodies to be not so great (most Finns are bald by 30) they do not think mixing boys with girls will prove a great army when it is time to kill people.

    • Replies: @Moses
    , @donut
    , @dvorak
    , @Neuday
  4. Lagertha says:

    I soooo wish you would do a post about the military in Finland. Women do not serve. Since 1945 Finland decided it is too much trouble/not a smart decision, to mix the sexes. Every boy who reaches 18 must serve. They can postpone until 28. My childhood friends said this was the best time of their lives (one year) when they had to serve. My sons can still serve.

    As much as Finns revere saunas…and accept their bodies to be not so great (most Finns are bald by 30) they do not think mixing boys with girls will prove a great army when it is time to kill people.

  5. Anon[373] • Disclaimer says:

    Gay men want to scrub the poop deck.

    • Replies: @nebulafox
  6. Does anyone think it makes for good war fighting when males are thinking about which females on the crew they would like to bang?

    Does anyone think that males on the crew will be at their stations doing what they should when females are injured in war?

  7. Anonymous[427] • Disclaimer says:

    Women on ships ungood. Women on submarines doubleplusungood.

    And I guarantee some of those Tomahawks are nuclear. The navy officially has a don’t tell policy on naval nukes except for the boomer ballistic missiles, but everyone knows what ships have nukes and which kind and roughly the number, because of the watch requirements are much more elaborate when nukes are on board.

    And you can bet that the navy is fairly penetrated by at least Israel, Russia and China. They know who is nuclear and how much so. The only mystery to me is why the Russians use reactors so different from ours. I think the current gen Russian boats are fairy safe but early ones were crew killers.

  8. Glaivester says: • Website

    Granted, as big oceans go, the Indian Ocean is bigger than most …

    No, it is actually the third of the four oceans (Pacific, Atlantic, Indian, Arctic).

  9. Moses says:
    @Lagertha

    I knew a man from Finland. He purposely tanked his military abilities test so he would not be tapped for officer school, or something like that. Funny guy.

    • Replies: @Lagertha
  10. Moses says:

    Will we ever be safe from toxic masculinity?

    The only solution I see is all-women submarine crews and/or male eunuch crew members administered female hormones to stop making them lust after women.

    Clown World is Who We Are.

  11. @Lagertha

    That’s one sane country, Lagertha. I wish it weren’t so cold, and with such an unusual language, or else I’d put it on a list of bailout places.

    • Replies: @Anon000
    , @Lagertha
  12. Bugg says:

    Putting young men and women 24/7 in close contact and pretending they won’t do what comes naturally since 1975, ….ladies and gentlemen, YOUR UNITED STATES MILITARY. Or 6th grade with AR15s, F18As and nuclear tipped missiles.

  13. @Glaivester

    Someone has never listened to enough Gordon Lightfoot. Nice reference, Steve – I caught that right away.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
    , @Franz
  14. Shoigu and co. don’t care about our PC crap. We ignore at our peril.

    Do our Western, politically correct fetishes trump reality? Unfortunately not.

    • Replies: @BenKenobi
  15. metatrоn says:

    I don’t know why you keep on bringing up Shoygu as an example of masculine military competence Steve, he’s NOT a military man(despite looking the part). He’s a civil engineer who was the minister of Ministry of Emergency Situations(federal government agency that deals with floods, forest fires, earthquakes, etc), before being made the defense minister. Dressing up as a general just makes him look phony IMHO.

  16. Dan Hayes says:

    Steve,

    I believe that the unidentified photo in your article was that of the Russian Chief of Staff whom Prof Steve Cohen has described as rough-hewn handsome (academic parlance: a real tough cookie)!

    • Replies: @Cortes
  17. @Achmed E. Newman

    With a load of iron ore twenty-six thousand tons more
    than the Edmund Fitzgerald weighed empty.
    That good ship and crew was a bone to be chewed
    when the gales of November came early.

    The ship was the pride of the American side,
    coming back from some mill in Wisconsin
    As the big freighters go, it was bigger than most
    with a crew and good captain well seasoned

    Concluding some terms with a couple steel firms
    when they left fully loaded for Cleveland,
    and later that night when the ship’s bell rang,
    could it be the north wind they’d been feelin’?

    • Replies: @Klesko
    , @Captain Tripps
  18. … apparently in today’s Navy, Captain Kercher’s failure to freak-out over this got him fired.

    Steve, even without the need for someone with a very specific type of personality to run things in this confined space for months at a time, your point here applies elsewhere in “the current year”. I have run into this, myself, and hell, one time was over 30 years ago, and one time less than 10. That’s the way of the business world anyway, and maybe the military is even worse.

    Having “zero tolerance” for “issues” that may or may not be jokes or not particularly serious is the best course of action for any manager now. Letting employees live and let live, using common sense, and all that, is JUST ASKING FOR TROUBLE. The safest bet, and you know 95% of managers will take that over what’s right, is to make mountains out of mole hills. Your phrasing. “failure to freak-out”, is an EXCELLENT way to put it.

    I wish I could tell you the 2 stories, as they’re amusing to me now, but they are really specific.

    • Agree: JimS
    • Replies: @Desiderius
  19. Forbes says:

    It’s a mystery… Put young men and women together working in confined spaces, living around the clock in close quarters, and expect no flirting, fraternization, or fucking. Apparently nobody noticed the number of shipboard pregnancies that occur…

    The fact the sailors engaged in Yelp-like restaurant reviews of their shipmates may not be good discipline–but it is hilarious, and completely consistent with male behavior. No one should think for a minute that female sailors don’t engage in similar conduct about their shipmates…

  20. Doesn’t matter either way. Not an issue. When they decide to blow up the world, don’t worry, girls or no girls, they’ll get the job done.

    • Troll: Jus' Sayin'...
    • Replies: @Jim Bob Lassiter
  21. Klesko says:
    @Achmed E. Newman

    That song came to me as well, though I’m not sure it was a deliberate reference by Steve. It doesn’t really make sense in the context.

    I wish I didn’t have the song in my head, now, though.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  22. newrouter says:

    >The lists — which Military.com characterizes as “rape lists” <

    The click bait never ends for the youngsters.

  23. The British redid the WWII submarine movie Das Boot as a TV series (it’s on Hulu) with many strong parts for women as resistance fighters on land.

    In one scene, when a woman visits her radio operator brother onboard the docked submarine, outrage ensues among the crew.

    The universal seafaring superstition was, of course, that it was very bad luck for women to set foot on a ship.

    I’ll post a clip if I can find one.

  24. @Peripatetic Commenter

    One woman told investigators the lists made “her question all males on the boat,” despite wanting to trust her shipmates.

    Does anyone think adding women’s hysterical emotional responses to high stress combat situations is going to “improve” the navy?

    • Replies: @Hans
    , @Corn
  25. The lists — which Military.com characterizes as “rape lists” … do “not reference non-consensual acts,” the report said, according to Military.com.

    Journalism.

    • Replies: @Alain
  26. Considering I don’t have a problem when middle-school boys do this, I certainly don’t have one with adults doing so.

    As for the women, the only thing worse than being on a list like this is NOT being on a list like this.

    • Replies: @Inquiring Mind
  27. @Bugg

    what comes naturally since 1975

    Sex has only been around since 1975?

    • Replies: @Hibernian
  28. @metatrоn

    Okay, how about Valeriy Gerasimov, who is the equivalent of our Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff and a widely respected military strategist?

  29. anon[410] • Disclaimer says:
    @PiltdownMan

    I read Trafalgar by Roy Jenkins, or Adkins, or something, and he mentions that women were occasionally included amongst the crew, typically the wife or girlfriend of one of the sailors, as long as she made herself useful – sewing, cooking, etc.

    Has Bodkins misled me, or was that superstition not so universal?

    • Replies: @Anon
  30. @PiltdownMan

    Wait. They look like white males.

    Hasn’t Russia heard that Diversity is Strength.

    They should have appointed black females into those roles.

    We must go to war with them until they do!

  31. theMann says:

    Why do you want to avoid submarine duty?

    Because you leave Port with 96 Sailors and return to Port with 48 couples……

    That used to be such a funny joke.

    Ultimately, who are the bigger [email protected]#$ing idiots though – the Loons who order Women to Serve on Naval Vessels (yes, even Tenders and Oilers) or the Loons who actually follow the orders? There should have been a massive, systematic, and unending Fleet Mutiny the instant Women were posted to Combat Vessels. Instead crickets….

    I do not know if Insanity is the path to Damnation, but I guarantee you it is the path to defeat. We can hide our moral degeneracy behind our technological prowess, maybe for a long time yet, but when defeat comes, it will be total.

  32. Anon[365] • Disclaimer says:

    If you want to see the future of the vaunted US Navy, look no further than the example rainbow nation South Africa is setting. I guess they ran out of white guys to do the work for them. From 2013:

    “The Air Force has no maintenance contract for [its] 26 Grippen fighter jets, ordered at great cost in 1999. Without maintenance they aircraft are almost useless. … None of the Air Force’s Agusta light utility helicopters are flying any more, because there are no funds for the exercises. … One of South Africa’s submarines – the SAS Queen Modjadji – had its outer hull damaged after hitting the seabed. … The main naval shipyard, at Simonstown, is running at less than a third of the capacity required to service the fleet, and is – according to the Chief of the Navy, Vice Admiral Refiloe Mudimu – unable to recruit the skilled staff it requires. … Only six trained Grippen pilots were said to remain earlier this year, eking out 150 hours flying time over the whole year.”

    Total collapse of an institution. And check this out:

    “There is another critical issue, which no-one dares mention: the military is badly over-manned. ‘They need to kick out around 20,000 people,’ Heitmann told the New Statesman. ‘But the authorities know if they do this, they will put men on the streets who have access to guns and an ability to use them. They would only end up filling the jails.”

    https://www.newstatesman.com/international-politics/2013/07/south-africas-military-meltdown

    • Replies: @Redneck farmer
  33. anon[335] • Disclaimer says:

    [Insert seamen/submarine joke here.]

    When the submarine comes into port, the seamen comes out.

  34. “[Defense seeks pause in Navy SEAL case while probing spying.”

    Ah, the pause that refreshes.

    And don’t forget to probe, harder and deeper, while in unfamiliar waters.

  35. BenKenobi says:
    @Kibernetika

    “In philosophy, or religion, or ethics, or politics, two and two might make five, but when one was designing a gun or aeroplane they had to make four. Inefficient nations were always conquered sooner or later”
    – Orwell, 1984

    And there’s nothing more inefficient than diversity.

    Take this submarine, for example. I guarantee every heterosexual female “sailor” on that boat was banging at least one of the men. Now, in addition to the men’s duties (made more burdensome by having to make up for diverse & female slack) there’s also competition for sexual access to females.

    The entire unit is warped and now a military vessel on an ostensibly important mission is caught up in some high-school level #metoo bull-ish. With the profligate female “sailors” now rending their garments and acting shocked, SHOCKED at all the fraternizing going on.

    I assume that the sub is currently waiting in location for David James Elliot and Catherine Bell to come and conduct a thorough investigation.

  36. The Israelis, being Jews, are first to try on a lot of ridiculous things, but their experiment with mixed units was so unimpressive they abandoned it. How unfortunate for us that we are doomed to being both ridiculous and stupid.

  37. Cortes says:
    @Dan Hayes

    Defence Minister Shoigu, from Tuva.

  38. @PiltdownMan

    Is that Christopher Walz in a Tarantino movie I somehow missed??

  39. @metatrоn

    The point, Tовариш Mетатрон, is that noubady gat fagkd in Serjozha’s sabmarines!

    N-o-u-b-a-d-y.*

    * Unless it happened that you were one of screw-members on :

    K-8
    K-219
    K-278
    K-19
    K-11
    K-27
    K-140
    K-429
    K-222
    K-123
    K-3
    K-47
    K-314
    K-431
    K-192 (formerly K-131),
    or
    K-8

    http://spb.org.ru/bellona/ehome/russia/nfl/nfl8.htm

    • Replies: @Kibernetika
  40. Anonymous[427] • Disclaimer says:
    @PiltdownMan

    Yes, I remember reading the same thing in the discussion of the sunken U-boat found off New Jersey, a surviving crew member related that a crewman wanted to show his mother the submarine, the captain forbade it on these grounds. This did not appear to be the case with US submariners though, women were allowed to tour the boat while in port. It might have been more of a German thing.

    And of course “women on the boat” were seen as ‘ a thing of the future’ in the 60s-Barbara Eden famously played a secretary-of-the-boat in a sci fi movie set on a nuclear sub:

    • Replies: @Autochthon
  41. Anonymous[427] • Disclaimer says:
    @PiltdownMan

    This guy looks like someone you do not want to jack around with.

  42. Twinkie says:

    The misconduct came to light four months later, when two sailors aboard the Florida brought the lists to a superior officer, reporting that they were stored on an internal computer network and updated regularly, Military.com reported.

    This recently happened at a local public school.

    The U.S. military used to be a junior college/trade school run by college graduates. Now I suppose it is a junior high school run by university sexual assault counselors.

    • Replies: @Days of Broken Arrows
  43. Twinkie says:
    @PiltdownMan

    The British redid the WWII submarine movie Das Boot as a TV series (it’s on Hulu) with many strong parts for women as resistance fighters on land.

    That’s hilarious, because, in the original, there were allusions to these brave French ladies shacking up with the occupying Germans and female French entertainers serving the Germans in cabarets/bars.

    The universal seafaring superstition was, of course, that it was very bad luck for women to set foot on a ship.

    One wonders how European females arrived in the Americas.

  44. Why are camels referred to as the ships of the desert?

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
  45. Anon000 says:
    @Achmed E. Newman

    That’s one sane country, Lagertha. I wish it weren’t so cold, and with such an unusual language, or else I’d put it on a list of bailout places.

    I’m curious to know which places made your list.

  46. You forgot the part where an enterprising officer stole the idea and took it to IPO. Who’s the Russian, and why is he relevant?

    • Replies: @Anon000
  47. @Peripatetic Commenter

    Not to mention that, but given the gender imbalance on ships, you’re going to have all the men competing, and sometimes literally fighting, over women.

    I have seen this dynamic play out in college classrooms that had a skewed gender ratio. I can only imagine how much worse it would be on a ship where everyone is trapped together with no way to get away from each other.

  48. Bill H says: • Website

    The insistence on women serving on warships comes from the delusion that the military exists to provide job opportunities for American citizens. And, of course, the liberal demand that women have equal access to all job opportunities.

    When I served on diesel powered submarines the purpose of the military was to defend the United States against foreign enemies. As a job opportunity it really sucked, with a starting wage of $83.20 per month.

  49. Cortes says:
    @PiltdownMan

    “The Wooden World”, N.A.M. Rodger’s history of the Royal Navy in the late 18th Century, gives plenty of details of women aboard warships, not many of whom were lounging around the quarter deck in their scanties.

    • Replies: @PiltdownMan
  50. nebulafox says:
    @Anon

    Well, the Navy was known to be relatively more gay friendly than the other branches back in the DADT days. Inevitable jokes about desperate sailors aside, I’d chalk that up partly to lacking the strong strain of evangelical Protestant Christianity (to the point that Catholicism is influenced by it) that the Army and the Air Force have.

  51. nebulafox says:
    @Ray Huffman

    There used to be a simple way of solving this: the sex workers that crowd around military bases and ports full of unattached young men like ticks on an unmedicated, unwashed dog. Keep it regulated-preferably controlled-to prevent disease and rape, and bam, world’s oldest profession to the rescue.

    Unfortunately, over the last couple of decades, there’s been a crackdown on that as Bushie Bible Bashers and Obamaite feminist harridans/eunuchs formed a toxic alliance. Both are absolutely horrified at the idea that somewhere out there, a 20 something man might be enjoying himself.

  52. when i was navy enlisted 30+ years ago, the enlisted females were massive sluts…probably the same today

    • Replies: @Chris Mallory
  53. @Cortes

    Thanks! Perhaps the superstition was limited to submariners, or is a continental thing? Or the superstition was from a certain era? I’m pretty sure I’ve seen more than one reference to the superstition over the years. I’ll see if I can find anything on it.

    • Replies: @Redneck farmer
  54. Cortes says:
    @nebulafox

    In fact since the days of Cromwell’s Navy, when officers were recruited based on their Protestantism (many from New England), the “Senior Service” has been pretty enthusiastically Protestant. See Rodger’s “The Command of the Ocean: A Naval History of Britain, 1649-1815”.

  55. Anonymous[427] • Disclaimer says:
    @theMann

    Ultimately, who are the bigger [email protected]#$ing idiots though – the Loons who order Women to Serve on Naval Vessels (yes, even Tenders and Oilers) or the Loons who actually follow the orders? There should have been a massive, systematic, and unending Fleet Mutiny the instant Women were posted to Combat Vessels. Instead crickets….

    A few sailors and a few officers did leave the Navy partly or wholly over this but once you have a couple enlistments in, you don’t want to quit before 20 because retirement. Most just kept quiet and tolerated it.

    • Replies: @Desiderius
  56. JimS says:

    Ok, given even my vague/distant knowledge of the American Navy and sub force, I feel there are a lot of misconceptions here. First, Tomahawks and nukes: I can’t guarantee there are no nuclear TLAMs, but this would be a matter of highest national policy. If the Russians/ Chinese knew that the US or UK had nuclear cruise missiles, any cruise launched risks an ICBM response. So I would say it’s highly doubtful America would be so stupid. Second, as far as oceans go, the Indian ocean is known for the island of Diego Garcia which the US leases from the UK and where it swaps out the crews of the submarines (each SSGN has two crews). It’s pretty well known that the USS Florida would go there, so it’s not really a security concern – if they said where they went on mission, that is different.

    Now, this case seems odd. The commanding officer has almost certainly been the captain of another submarine, but this is likely his first exposure to females on submarines (several US subs had female officers, and many – though not most – are known to have had other than honorable discharges for improper relationships with male enlisted). That said, every command would have a coordinator for sexual assaul prevention and response. The captain would have to be an idiot not to know there would be an outside investigation and appoint an investigating officer of his own. Being a “full bird captain”, as US sailors would say, he really should have known how to cover himself, even if he didn’t care about it. So it is a profound lack of judgement, from the sparse details we’re shown. In fact, it’s so strange that I wonder if we’re missing part of the story.

    Obligatory joke at the expense of submariners, applying more to the all-male times: 126 men go into a submarine, and when it returns months later, 63 couples come out. After all, it is said, “It’s not gay if you’re underway.” And for trivia, ballistic missile submarine sailors are known as “boomer fags” in the US or “bomber fags” in the UK. Of course, in the UK “fag” and “faggot” each have different meanings from the US term, but this seems to be British adopting Americanisms. As far as I know, the Americans have not taken to calling their non-engineering/propulsion sailors “front cunts”, as they are sometimes called in the Royal Navy (i.e. sailors working in the front/forward part of a submarine).

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  57. @Anonymous

    More realistic is the chaos and shenanigans of Operation Petticoat, except that the reality is less zany and fortuitous – darker and more disastrous, as Captain Kercher now knows well….

  58. Anonymous[427] • Disclaimer says:
    @Klesko

    Stan Rogers was always the real Canadian folksinger of maritime songs.

  59. If you knock up a shipmate on a submarine, does that result in a nuclear family?

    • Replies: @Cortes
  60. Svigor says:
    @Anonymous

    Some years back I saved a Wikipedia list of naval nuclear accidents. The U.S. list had a handful of entries, but the Soviet list was as long as your arm. Wish I could find it, because I looked for it again recently online and came up empty.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    , @JimS
    , @res
  61. @Prof. Woland

    Why are camels referred to as the ships of the desert?

    They can’t swim.

    Kharais aside:

    https://earther.gizmodo.com/the-fight-to-save-the-last-swimming-camels-on-earth-1829654888

    • Replies: @captflee
  62. Svigor says:
    @PiltdownMan

    The universal seafaring superstition was, of course, that it was very bad luck for women to set foot on a ship.

    It’s a lot more than mere superstition. For most of naval history, bringing a woman on board probably was bad “luck.” Dangling a woman in front of a buncha horny guys at sea for weeks or months is a great way to motivate them to start cutting each other’s throats. Mutiny, anyone?

    It’s sort of like walking under a ladder (stuff can fall on your head and kill you when someone’s working on a ladder and you’re walking under it) or breaking a mirror (a zillion shards of glass are a great way to get cut).

  63. @Svigor

    There’s a decent movie by Kathryn Bigelow about one of them, K-19.

    Russians and accidents go together in my mind.

  64. Cortes says:
    @Reg Cæsar

    A tiny tryst can make a blast..ocyst.

  65. Plotting conflicts with Iran, China, Russia, etc. while forcing gender ideology down the throats of soldiers… it sounds literally insane.

  66. Kyle says:

    That seems like a high ratio of female to male sailors. I get the feeling that many of the girls requested sub duty in order to be confined with men in tight quarters for weeks at a time. Of maybe they want the sub bonus.

  67. That’s a heckuva liittle ink for such a therious tstory

  68. JimS says:
    @Svigor

    I would be interested in seeing that. From what I know of US/UK nuclear boats, you’d have to define “accident” very liberally to come up with anything. They must count radioactive spills that are immediately undetectable and harmless.

    If I recall correctly, unless you count USS Thresher (only tangentially related to a nuclear issue), the US Army has had more fatal nuclear accidents than the US Navy and Royal Navy combined – 1 to 0.
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/SL-1

    Of course, the Russian Navy leads the pack. The Chinese Navy also operates differently, preferring to have shorter careers for its sailors than to properly shield them from radiation, as in western countries.

  69. Paul says:

    When young men and women are placed together in close quarters, what do you think is going to happen? Duh.

    • Agree: Achmed E. Newman
  70. @Bugg

    M4A1s, F-18Es, and potentially nuclear armed missiles. FIFY.

  71. @Anon

    In defense of the South African Navy, they’re not the only ones whose submarines scrape the bottom occasionally.

  72. @Bugg

    In light of the aggressive policy to graduate increasing numbers of African-American and Hispanic women from West Point and to increase their proportions in the top military ranks (see Sailer’s earlier post), we can expect this trend to get worse over coming years.

  73. @PiltdownMan

    Well women on the Florida turned out to be bad luck for the captain, didn’t they?

  74. Laugh.

    Human relational dynamics 101. Putting men and women in gin can for m8nths on end will lead to conduct best reserved for married individuals.

    I am unclear why there needed to be an investigation. This behavior among men and women is neither new or shocking. Once the matter was understood to be consensual – hardly more than more than office hours.

    It is a shame that women insist on giving up their place of privilege. But such is progress, though women complaint about their choice to engage in that which they should not seriously challenter the meaning of progress.

    It has been the Navy that has pressed for some of the worst policy changes – number 8he among them – same sex relations as the same as heterosexual dynamic. If they can bend biology reality out of shape at whim – seems the captain’s response was to that end normalcy.

    Good grief.

    • Replies: @Dan Hayes
  75. @Ray Huffman

    What I’ve heard room military officers is:

    Best case is all male crew/unit.

    But if you have to have women, it is best to have approximately a 50/50 ratio, as this keeps the sexual competition in approximate balance.

    The worst case is majority male/minority female, as this this leverages up the destructive sexual competition energies.

    Needless to say, nowadays, most military crews are the third case.

    • Replies: @Sean
  76. When I was on the USS Rushmore I was told 3rd hand about a female sailor that had a 12 inch ruler tattooed on the inside of her upper thigh.

    Best and brightest, or something.

  77. Gordo says:

    As a result of the investigation, Kercher was fired; he had held the position for five months, during which there were also complaints of high workloads.

    What would they have said about Halsey?

  78. @Anonymous

    This trailer popped into my Youtube feed; although released in Toronto (at the Film Festival) last September as the film “Kursk”, it is being re-released in the next few weeks as the movie “The Command”:

  79. A navy whose commanders are more afraid of DieFi throwing a tantrum than of the Big Bad Russians is not a navy I would trust as far as I can lift a piano with my pipi.
    (which, truth be told, is not terribly far)

    Just sayin´.

    As for the “list”, I smell a noose.

  80. @Achmed E. Newman

    That is one fantastic ballad…what’s the best ballad released in the last thirty years? I can’t think of one off the top of my head, but I’ve been busy working/raising a family over that timeframe, so haven’t listened to very much leading edge music. I do gather, every now and then when I accidentally stop on one of the FM stations, that music genres seem to have converged into some type of monotonous digital hip-hop/pop/country style, but I just quickly flip over to my ipod and play the old, defined genres.

    • Replies: @YetAnotherAnon
  81. donut says:
    @Lagertha

    In the online game I used to play there was a Finnish clan . They always dominated the maps . Even now when there are individual Finns playing they always score high . OTOH the best player in the game was a German female . I’ve seen her join the losing side in the middle of a map , take a bolt action rifle and turn the thing around .

  82. @Sean

    What’re you saying? That the Navy is sometimes incompetent and venal?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Iowa_turret_explosion#Sandia_investigation

    • Replies: @Sean
  83. BB753 says:

    Yet another reason why you can’t have women in the military. Worst idea ever.

    • Replies: @68W58
  84. Remember when during the Obamazoidal Era, two US Navy Swedish-built coastal/riverine fast gunboats transiting the Persian Gulf were captured by the Iranian Navy (or maybe the Revolutionary Guard) for putatively entering into Iran’s territorial waters? (One was being towed by the other following engine troubles.) The Iranians showed videos on national TV of the captive US sailors breaking down in tears. They also forced the several American women crew-members to wear burqas/hijabs.

    No word in the US media on whether the immediate skippers were disciplined in any way, nor whether their superiors were. The US craft were armed with auto cannons, but they didn’t fire a shot in self defense. (This was either just before or just after the Obamazoids secretly delivered to the mullahs a zillion bucks in new USD and Swiss currency, which took several large pallets loaded into chartered non-miltary cargo aircraft.)

    I had around that time bought a second hand, first-generation GPS device for my bicycle at the local Goodwill store for five bucks. Its positional accuracy was about 10 meters. WTF?

    • Replies: @nokangaroos
  85. @Steve Sailer

    Russians are the best drivers in the world, or so I’ve heard…

    • Replies: @FLgeezer
  86. Hans says:
    @Oleaginous Outrager

    Has it been determined what the cause of the outrage is? I’m guessing it’s low rankings or not making the list at all. Possibly the issue of males infringing on some other entitties sexual territory.

  87. Anon000 says:
    @The Alarmist

    Head of the Russian military, General Sergey Shoigu

  88. @Achmed E. Newman

    Read that my kid went alt-right article on the Washingtonian to see what that leads to. Any sane person reading that article would be way more concerned with what his school did to that kid (following your advice) than the alt-right.

    If you want a Stasi that’s how you get one.

  89. donut says:
    @PiltdownMan

    “The universal seafaring superstition was, of course, that it was very bad luck for women to set foot on a ship.”

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Ann_Brown_Patten

    Burials on Nelson’s Island

    Photograph of Nelson’s Island, taken on a recent excavation expedition Nelson’s Island from the sea © In 2000, Italian archaeologist Dr Paolo Gallo, while excavating Hellenistic and Pharaonic structures on Nelson’s Island, Aboukir Bay, discovered a lost Royal Navy burial ground from Nelson’s time. A British team was invited by Dr Gallo to excavate these burials, which subsequently revealed graves containing officers, sailors, soldiers, marines, women and children.

    A poignant discovery was that of three infants. Two were either stillborn or had died shortly after birth, and one had died at just a few months old. Each was buried in a wooden coffin, wrapped in a shroud held together with small bronze pins, and one had been carefully packed in wood shavings.

    … women fought, nursed, accompanied their husbands … and even enlisted in disguise to serve in Nelson’s Navy

    Directly next to one infant was the grave of a woman in a wooden coffin, and it is likely that this was her child. She had been laid to rest in a dress, and her face had been covered with what looks like a handkerchief. On the coffin lid had been nailed a large metal letter ‘G’. There are currently three possible candidates for this burial. John Nicol, one of Nelson’s sailors who took part in the Battle of the Nile (1798), wrote that a woman from Leith, Scotland, was injured whilst serving the guns on HMS Goliath, subsequently died of her wounds, and was ‘buried on a small island in the Bay’.

    Two other women from the army regiments from the 1801 expedition were recorded to have died on board the ships moored in Aboukir Bay. One was Mrs Lambe, of the 3rd Guards Regiment (now the Scots Guards), and the other was Sarah Webber of the Coldstream Guards. Any one of these could have merited the mysterious ‘G’ (standing perhaps for ‘Goliath’ or ‘Guards’).

    The historical and archaeological record thus makes it clear that women fought, nursed, accompanied their husbands, gave birth, entertained and even enlisted in disguise to serve in Nelson’s Navy. These findings have forced us to re-examine the social and organisational nature of Nelson’s crews, and has painted a much fuller and more complex picture of those who inhabited the ‘wooden world’.

  90. That was probably the way I wrote the comment, but it could have been your misunderstanding, Desiderius, as JimS seemed to get it.

    That was not advise! I am not one of the managers that I was writing about. I HAVE BEEN one of those 5% (one of the 2 stories, and not a very high position, BTW), and that’s probably why I am not a manager right now, except, one could say, of a very few people where we have no oversight.

    It’s getting very close to a Stasi-like atmosphere in lots of Big-Biz now, D. That’s why I want no part of it. The nice HR ladies that I rail on (more here, here, and here) are just the tip of the spear.

    • Replies: @Pericles
  91. bomag says:
    @Ray Huffman

    This, and the comments.

    Hard to imagine proud parents announcing that they hope their baby daughter grows up to serve on a submarine.

  92. bomag says:
    @theMann

    We can hide our moral degeneracy behind our technological prowess, maybe for a long time yet, but when defeat comes, it will be total.

    That’s the thing, our technology lets us dabble in these bad ideas.

    One saving feature is that the rest of the technically advanced world is similarly degenerate.

    • Replies: @YetAnotherAnon
  93. @Steve Sailer

    Decent, except for someone deciding it would be a good idea for Harrison Ford to speak with a Russian accent.

  94. Thirdtwin says:

    Some crew members showed the list to the captain, and the list was maintained on ship computers, but the captain could not find the list anywhere on the ship. And the list, which only copy was produced by complainants, is somehow made known to higher-ups thousands of miles away? Sounds to me like the Sub is infested with SJWs, probably Diversity Officers, too. Whatever happened to Run Silent, Run Deep?

    “Another said she felt compelled to send photos of the lists to family members at home…”

    Didn’t Kristian Saucier go to jail for taking photos aboard his sub?

  95. Kyle says:

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.dailycaller.com/2017/03/01/exclusive-deployed-us-navy-has-a-pregnancy-problem-and-its-getting-worse

    “A record 16 out of 100 Navy women are reassigned from ships to shore duty due to pregnancy, according to data obtained under the Freedom of Information Act by The Daily Caller”

    (16 / 100 ) ~= (1/6)

    “That number is up 2 percent from 2015,”
    “Overall, women unexpectedly leave their stations on Navy ships as much as 50% more frequently to return to land duty”
    “a single transfer can cost the Navy up to $30,000 for each woman trained for a specific task”

    I assume that is referring to nuke school. Women are probably underrepresented as grunts, and overrepresented as nuke engineers on board subs.

    “That figure translates into $115 million in expenses for 2016 alone.”

    (115 million) / (30,000) = 3,833 pregnancies in 2016. That’s a conservative estimate, I’m sure most of the girls who get pregnant are not nukes.

  96. Hibernian says:
    @ScarletNumber

    I think the WAC, WAF, and WAVE corps were abolished about that time or a little earlier. Women became “soldiers just like the men.”

    • Replies: @ScarletNumber
  97. @ScarletNumber

    I think that crew members being disciplined and disciplined harshly by the Navy is the correct course of action.

    They violated op-sec for having a written list and then storing it on a computer.

    Can our nation trust those numnuts with military secrets and nuclear codes? Don’t they know that storing something on a computer is as much as publishing it in the Washington Post?

  98. @Anon000

    Triple-Zeroes: I wrote “a list”, not “my list”, because, really I don’t see very many good options, and I haven’t done much due diligence yet. Uruguay is 90% white (Spanish, Germans, Italians …), and is the only country in Latin America that comes close to that. The thing about way down in S. America, is it just seems to be a place that the American Feral Gov’t doesn’t seem to care about these days. That’s part of what you want.

    Also, just to keep things clear for other readers too, I used the word “bailout” rather than “bug-out” here. The prepper types (and more power to ’em) use the term “bug-out location” for somewhere you may need to go to in a big hurry, when TSHTF, with a bag already packed, etc. I don’t mean that (yet), but just a place to go if, and it’s a significant chance, this country starts to disgust me enough AND I don’t feel there are enough people left who are worth my going out on a limb for anymore.

    Sorry that that didn’t answer the question well. Eastern Europe, I know, is considered by many, but I don’t have any “in”, and the languages could make it a tough deal. Do you have any suggestions?

  99. @Desiderius

    Oops, I wrote you back down below, but didn’t make it a REPLY. I think you misunderstood me. I was disparaging the ubiquitous managers of this sort.

  100. @obwandiyag

    Don’t worry obwandiyag; they’ll commit mutiny before they obey a command to launch a Tomahawk missle strike against your uppity mud and stick hut village.

  101. JR Ewing says:

    Ummm, as much as the SJW’s can wish otherwise, this is what happens when you mix men and women in ANY situation, much less the military.

    And it’s why women shouldn’t be in frontline and combat roles in the military, especially on a damn submarine.

    • Replies: @Jan Assman
  102. @Anon000

    If Belize is good enough for a former Imperial Grand Wizard, it ought to be good enough for you.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2992318/I-don-t-hate-blacks-Ain-t-KKK-Imperial-Wizard-30-years-fled-insists-isn-t-racist-just-segregationist-denies-FBI-snitch.html

    They speak some variant of English there too.

    (reply actually intended for Achmed)

    • Replies: @Pericles
    , @AKAHorace
  103. Thirdtwin says:

    The first rule of Fight Sub: Nobody talks about the Fight Sub

    The second rule of Fight Sub: No ladies on the Fight Sub.

  104. dvorak says:
    @Lagertha

    Since 1945 Finland decided it is too much trouble to mix the sexes.

    When you’re next to Russia and have been invaded before, it’s a different feel than in the US. We’re next to Canada, Mexico and Bahamas.

  105. Ibound1 says:

    Whose idea was it to put females on a submarine? Was that forced from a court decision or did someone elected actually make the decision?

    • Replies: @68W58
  106. @Captain Tripps

    “what’s the best ballad released in the last thirty years?”

    Hmm, since 1989 – that’s a poser. I can’t off the top of my head think of any traditional verse and chorus ballads, but I liked Seal’s Kiss From A Rose and Nothing Compares 2 U – the Sinead version.

    There must be more , just nothing jumps to mind.

    Hanoi Paris Hilton – weren’t the captured boats British ?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_Iranian_arrest_of_Royal_Navy_personnel

  107. Anon[116] • Disclaimer says:
    @anon

    I read a book on 19th century whaling, and it mentioned some captain’s wives, but also some crossdressing women who managed to keep their sex secret (for a while at least) and do the work required. These were three- or four-year trips towards the end when the ships had to round Cape Horn and, as whale stocks dwindled, go up as far as Alaska and Siberia. When you think of all the boys who signed up (e.g., Two Years before the Mast, although not a whaler), you can imagine that a young woman might be able to pass.

  108. @bomag

    “One saving feature is that the rest of the technically advanced world is similarly degenerate.”

    Except China and Japan, and Russia? Nowt wrong with women in the forces, but not on combat duty alongside men.

    • Replies: @bomag
  109. Sean says:
    @Almost Missouri

    The music video for “If I Could Turn Back Time”, takes place on board Iowa class battleship USS Missouri, which was the site of the Empire of Japan’s Surrender on September 2, 1945, thus ending World War II. I suppose the message of my comments on this post is that war is no longer a right of passage, but now every generation must watch a woman of Armenian paternity exposing her buttocks and see her either become the only person with a single name US passport (Cher) or become a billionaire (Kardashian).

    Once when they were supposed to be on watch, the then 19 year old Truitt and twentysomething Hartwig were found rolling around on the floor together. Hartwig, who was 6’4 ”, told the homophobes on board to stop bothering Truitt. Hartwig hade a bomb making manual, he discussed timing devices with another crew member, and he spoke of suicide to several when Truitt took up with a woman. He made Truitt the beneficiary of a large insurance policy but had to make it look like an accident for the company to pay out on his death. From a naval family, as was:-

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stabbing_of_Allen_R._Schindler_Jr.

    Allen R. Schindler Jr. (December 13, 1969 – October 27, 1992) was an American Radioman Petty Officer Third Class in the United States Navy who was murdered for being gay. Schindler made a personal prank announcement “2-Q-T-2-B-S-T-R-8” (too cute to be straight) on secure lines reaching much of the Pacific Fleet. Schindler had complained repeatedly of anti-gay harassment to his chain of command in March and April 1992, citing incidents such as the gluing-shut of his locker and frequent comments from shipmates such as “There’s a faggot on this ship and he should die”.

    If I recall rightly, at Abu Ghraib there were only three women in the unit with dozens of men, and one guy had two of them.

    • Replies: @Almost Missouri
  110. Pericles says:
    @BenKenobi

    With the profligate female “sailors” now rending their garments and acting shocked, SHOCKED at all the fraternizing going on.

    “OMG, I may have … had relations … with half the crew but that doesn’t mean I’m a slut! I deserve respect!”

  111. @Hanoi Paris Hilton

    First-gen civilian CEP ~ 25m . But we´ve had calibration errors with second-gen of up to 120m still 😀

    – Fifteen or twenty years ago an Army systems analysis concluded a woman was worth minus seven men (!); the report was buried, and the solution to having to hire the otherwise-unemployable was to give everybody and his/her/whatever mama GPS. Now it seems not even that is sufficient anymore.

    – Ancient Lebanese sniper´s wisdom: Of a couple in the crosshairs, shoot the dame soft (read: immobile and in pain but not quite dead). The man WILL help her, and you get both. If you kill the woman you MAY lose the man. If you shoot the man first you almost always lose the woman.
    All that is trivial – elementary human interaction we fall back on under stress.
    “Woman on board ship = bad luck.” So what?
    For WHAT exactly do the SJW zombies violate humanity again?

    • Replies: @Almost Missouri
  112. Alain says:
    @thomasblair

    Yeah, that stuck out to me too. These lying little self-promoting scumbags are showing up everywhere.
    They all figure to power up their careers by plugging into the now-dominant current of political correctness and burning some hapless victim or victims at the stake.

    “Look at me! Look at me! Look what I did! The WaPo picked up my story! I’m important! My resume is looking much better! Maybe I can even ride this to a decent job instead of this pathetic Military.com gig! “

  113. Pericles says:
    @Achmed E. Newman

    I wonder when young men figure out that HR is an easy life and that they might even be a welcome form of departmental diversity.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
  114. Pericles says:
    @Jim Bob Lassiter

    Belize? Ask John McAfee how that worked out.

  115. @BenKenobi

    Take this submarine, for example. I guarantee every heterosexual female “sailor” on that boat was banging at least one of the men.
    * * *
    With the profligate female “sailors” now rending their garments and acting shocked, SHOCKED at all the fraternizing going on.

    There’s something in the female psyche that doesn’t see any dissonance between fraternizing with a man on the job or flirting for favors and attention and simultaneously being taken seriously as a peer. The outrage here is the revelation that less desirable members of the crew were having sexual thoughts about them.

    We should maybe name this glitch in the female psyche for Melinda Gates, who champions women in the workplace and #meetoo Neovictorian mores after having seduced her Billionaire Boss. No doubt that Melinda Gates would have deemed Billionaire Bill Gates dating models or female celebrities sexist, because he’s only allowed to be attracted to smart women who show off their smarts at work but not beautiful ditzes.

    It’s really just good, old fashioned female solipsism at work – they want to dress or act in ways to attract the guy who they want to be attracted to them for whatever purpose they desire, and the other guys they don’t find attractive aren’t allowed to have sexual thoughts about them no matter their behavior because eeww that’s gross. All of the men are just NPCs in this exercise because they’re not really supposed to have their own motivations or emotions outside of the script that the woman has written for them in her head – the Chad Commander is supposed to find them irresistible, while the pimply enlisted men are supposed to not have particular feelings other than knowing their own inferiority.

    • Agree: Old Prude, Autochthon
    • Replies: @Anon7
    , @Justvisiting
    , @Whiskey
  116. “But if you have to have women, it is best to have approximately a 50/50 ratio, as this keeps the sexual competition in approximate balance.”

    If only it worked that way. There could be more women than men in any configuration, and the scales of balance would be mere guess work. It’s not merely the numbers. it’s the matter of attraction: looks, personality, circumstance, etc. All factors that override ratios of 1:1 availability.
    ————

    Established ship catains aboard cargo carriers could be acccompanied by theirwives, thought this rare.

    Fortunately, cross dressing never caught on as a Navy staple until

    And they weren’t cross dressers.

  117. @Lagertha

    A simple, sane policy.

    Here in America, we can’t have simple, sane policies. I am astounded to the point of despondency that I have to explain to people why it’s a bad idea to put women on a USN submarine. Why do we have to discuss this? The brainwashing has completely erased any trace of simple common sense.

    • Replies: @L Woods
    , @AKAHorace
  118. @YetAnotherAnon

    That’s right; I forgot about that Sinead O’Connor song. Good turn; but its been downhill for her since then…

  119. Dan Hayes says:
    @EliteCommInc.

    EliteCommInc.:

    The worst policy changes you referred to initially arose from Admiral Zumwalt and his notorious z-grams which heralded the loosening of US Navy discipline!

  120. @BenKenobi

    I would be the first to volunteer for anything that Catherine Bell is thoroughly investigating.

    • LOL: BenKenobi
    • Replies: @ScarletNumber
  121. @Peripatetic Commenter

    Okay, iSteve commenters. Time for a reality check. If 20 year old submariners weren’t fantasizing about their shipmates, they’d be fantasizing about the girls back home or at the next SE Asian port with shore leave. There is no world in which a boat of 20 year olds is full of men thinking exclusively patriotic or bellicose thoughts.

    Also, yes, those submariners will perform their duties in time of need. Their lives are stake.

    The real issue with women on submarines is that introducing a few women into any large group of men immediately makes a poisonous competitive atmosphere. Low morale.

    It’s incredible to me how stupid the Navy is about the Navy. I used to be interested in the Navy and sad that that I didn’t make a career there. Nowadays, I am so glad I made the decisions I did about service.

  122. @Peripatetic Commenter

    “Does anyone think that males on the crew will be at their stations doing what they should when females are injured in war?”

    Not to worry! There will be very few females on board if naval vessels seriously deploy for a war. A major problem in all the services has been the sudden increases in females reporting injuries, illness or pregnancy when exceptionally long or dangerous deployments are in the offing. This has been a major planning issue ever since females were allowed into combat positions.

    It’s an unfortunate fact that many women in today’s US military are there because they see it as a government handout program. When the time comes to pay for all the handouts they tend to duck out. I suspect that the rancor created by this situation and the exceptional status given military women in other ways, e.g., through sexual fraternization, is what’s behind these “rape lists” and other outbursts.

    These are signals of deep dissatisfaction within the ranks, the modern equivalent of rolling cannon balls down the gun deck. The military brass and their civilian overseers should be less concerned about the signaling than the dangerous situation it reveals.

    The march through the institutions continues. The military is just the latest target.

    • Agree: Cortes
    • Replies: @Cortes
  123. Neuday says:
    @Lagertha

    Only Special Forces kill people. Otherwise, the US Military is nothing but a jobs program, keeping up appearances. Notice that the new Army uniforms essentially copy those of WWII.

    • Replies: @Lagertha
  124. Anon7 says:

    Today’s Western military is much more concerned with the rights of victims, as seen in the appointment of solicitor Susan Ridge as the first female major general in the British Army. See her comments on victims rights starting at 0’32”.

    She is the very model of the modern major general!

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  125. @YetAnotherAnon

    Close but no cigar, Mr/Ms Yet! (Actually not that close, as the Royal Navy seizure was nearly a decade earlier, and during the second Iraq war, in which the Brits were themselves combatants.)

    See…

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_U.S.–Iran_naval_incident

  126. Anon7 says:
    @Alec Leamas

    Good comment. You’ll enjoy this article on pregnancy in the military:

    Active duty women in the U.S. military are more likely to have an unintended pregnancy than civilian women in the U.S. population, according to one military official and some researchers and advocates interviewed by MedPage Today.

    And why are they more likely to become pregnant? Because they are a relatively small number of women serving in restricted locations like ships with high-testosterone men?

    Historically, servicewomen have had difficulty accessing birth control due to logistical as well as cultural barriers. In addition, abortions and abortion counseling are not provided by the Department of Defense (DOD) or the Department of Veterans Affairs (VA).

    No! It’s because the male patriarchy denies them access to medical care!

    Men. They’re responsible for everything.

    From https://www.medpagetoday.com/publichealthpolicy/militarymedicine/74959

    OT: Did you know that Heartiste had his blog suspended? See heartiste.wordpress.com

  127. @YetAnotherAnon

    Further to my earlier posting in this thread and in my response of a few minutes ago to you noting the media silence on that event, there was a single citation in the Wikipedia article of an AP story appearing five months after the event noting that US Navy CDR Eric Rasch —the “Executive Commander” (maybe equivalent to XO in US Army parlance, rather than the CO?) of that riverine fastboat flotilla— was “fired”, but the original AP link is dead now. On Googling CDR Rasch, an official USN website shows that he was actually appointed the following year to be “Commander of Surface Division Eleven, US Navy Pacific Fleet “. He was neither demoted nor promoted following the Persian Gulf debacle, so it looks like Rasch wasn’t sent after all to the Gulag or shot in the back of the neck in the Lubyanka basement.

    https://www.public.navy.mil/surfor/SUW11/Pages/Bio2-1December2017-21September2018.aspx

  128. @theMann

    Are you saying the sailors used to form homosexual unions (temporary, I guess) while out at sea for months, or whatever? I guess it’s good that females are aboard now.

    Anyway, that alone would keep me from ever wanting to be on such a vessel. My uncle was a captain on Navy submarines for years and of all the stories he told, he never mentioned anything like this.

    • Replies: @Wilkey
  129. British warships in the 1700’s used to allow “wifes” on board when the ships wee in port for a while. It helped them keep their pressed crews while in port. The tween decks were dens of iniquity.

    • Replies: @YetAnotherAnon
  130. bomag says:
    @YetAnotherAnon

    Except China and Japan, and Russia?

    They may well abide, but they have issues.

  131. njguy73 says:

    Sailors ranked female crew and the sex acts they wanted to perform with them, Navy report says

    This reminds me of the My So-Called Life episode where the boys in Angela’s (Claire Danes) class make a list giving the girls superlatives like “Best Butt” and “Best Legs.” Angela has two friends, one who’s thrilled that she got “Most Slut Potential,” and one who’s embarrassed that she got “Best Breasts.” And Angela feels ugly because she’s not on the list at all.

    https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0654964/

  132. AKAHorace says:
    @Jim Bob Lassiter

    If Belize is good enough for a former Imperial Grand Wizard, it ought to be good enough for you.

    I have heard Belize described as the first country that will go from being English speaking to Spanish speaking because of immigration.

  133. Wow! Whudda surprise!!!

    As Erasmus (or somebody) said, human folly knows no limits.

  134. @Lagertha

    Well, at least on this front the Finns have their collective heads screwed on tight–unlike the USED (United States of Equality and Diversity).

  135. Hank Yobo says:

    This whole incident has now redefined the term “naval rating.”

  136. captflee says:
    @Reg Cæsar

    Reg,

    Your ability to spotlight the arcane and abstruse never ceases to amaze.

    The run up Phitti Creek into Port Qasim (Pakistan) through the mangroves and mud flats of the Indus Delta provides some rare sights, including swimming camels, though the nonplussed locals promote birding, especially the Siberian Cranes. One is rarely able to fully play the tourist while piloting a class of ship whose maneuvering characteristics in any wind condition much above FAC/TTR approximates a beach ball blowing across a swimming pool, but I can assure you that having to run the 105 feet from bridge wing to bridge wing, barking out helm and engine commands, while threading the needle of (a) dodging aquatic ungulates and (b) not sticking the fore or aft end into the all too close banks was not something I ever imagined I’d be doing with my life.

    While never myself a bubblehead, my 13 month career as 2nd Mate was spent aboard a ship which surveyed the ocean bottom in support of the FBM program, with a mixed complement; contract merchant mariners to operate the ship, and Navy/Navoceano/tech reps down below. There were, among the USN folk, perhaps a half dozen females, including the Unit CO, and I can safely report that several of those gals made outstanding contributions to the morale of all constituencies of our complement. Toward the end of my time aboard, during one of those monotonous watches running long, long E/W survey lines, a long serving AB and I totaled up the number of people that one of the ladies had slept with (that we knew about), and ended up exceeding 75. Fairly impressive, given that the Navy contingent of 40 or so did not change much, and the civilians cannot have exceeded 100 total over that year.

    Regarding “Biker Woman”, the lady in question, my favorite memory follows. Just as I was about to turn in one evening, the Chief Mate called and asked me to hasten to the bridge to relieve him, as he needed to go below to check on a report of flooding in the steward berthing area. So, radio in hand, up the ladder to the wheelhouse I went, and after a very brief turnover, below sortied Frank the Chief Mate. Minutes pass, nothing is heard from below, Frank ain’t answering his radio, and I am starting to worry, about to call the old man to update him on the situation, when Frank literally falls into the wheelhouse, hysterically laughing. Some poor Steward Assistant had gotten up to pee and found himself ankle deep, so sounded the alarm. Upon arriving, Frank was able to calm down the panicked inhabitants sufficiently to hear running water in a nearby locked stateroom, and using his master key entered said room, taking in the edifying spectacle of the highly intoxicated Biker Woman and one of the other SAs in flagrante delicto, pounding away atop the bunk as twin arcs of potable water from the freshly sundered from bulkhead and piping sink steadily filled the compartment, chianti bottles jauntily bobbing along as the water sloshed with the ship’s rolls.

    But those were, apparently, simpler times.

    Totally OT; Ave atque vale, Niki Lauda, pilot of entirely different sort(s).

  137. @Alec Leamas

    Good analysis–pimply enlisted men may accept their inferior status (“good morale”) or try to do something about it (“bad morale”).

    This is a nuclear “accident” waiting to happen…especially since the software geeks are more likely to fall into the second category.

  138. res says:
    @Svigor

    How about this? Not exactly what you want, but seems to contain the relevant information.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_military_nuclear_accidents

  139. @JR Ewing

    Exactly… who does not notice this same thing happening in mixed sex workplaces all the time? You have men and women spending most of their waking hours in a place, it’s going to happen. Even if they’re already married (you see that guy from the office more often than your husband, after all)

  140. @propagandist hacker

    Where the men massive sluts too or were you virginal choir boys?

  141. “It used to be that missile sub captains were chosen in part for a calm, even-keeled disposition, but apparently in today’s Navy, Captain Kercher’s failure to freak-out over this got him fired.”

    Moderation in pursuit of Political Correctness is no virtue.

  142. The USS Florida (or any sub named after a state) is an Ohio class strategic nuclear sub, meaning she is part of the “nuclear triad.” So Steve, the answer is yes, she carries nukes. Fast attack boats (subs that hunt other subs and protect surface strike groups) are named after cities, such as the USS Los Angeles.

    • Replies: @Gluggity
  143. @Steve Whitten

    Captain Cook allowed Tahitian girls on board his ships when anchored there, and the vessel was one big orgy. The girls soon learned that they could charge, and the price went up from one iron nail at the start to four or more – Cook had to take measures to stop the ship being dismantled by its own crew.

    The custom there was to make love in public, and when the sailors went ashore they were abashed at being asked to do the deed on the spot – but, Cook recorded that some of the crew found they could overcome their scruples.

  144. Whiskey says: • Website
    @Alec Leamas

    This same dynamic plays out … everywhere. It’s why men and women are enemies. Non Alpha men and women want mutually hostile and exclusive things.

    • Agree: Autochthon
  145. @metatrоn

    Because he DOES look the part, and sometimes looking the part is enough.

    ——Especially when contrasted with those silly broads ….I mean “Defense Ministers”…… from Western Europe.

  146. @Sean

    First paragraph amusing and I largely agree (except I think you mean “rite” instead of “right”).

    Re the Truitt/Hartwig matter, my recollection is that on review the sources for the homosexual innuendo couldn’t be found, and that less melodramatic causes for the explosion could be. I am certainly no expert and am open to correction, however.

    Since you bring up the homosex thing, though, that also used to be prohibited in the military for the same sensible reason that men and women serving together was prohibited: it is a serious distraction in an organization that deals in life or death situations.

    • Replies: @Sean
  147. Old Prude says:
    @Chrisnonymous

    I regretted leaving the Army for years, but looking at its long decline into diversity, faggotry, and political cowardice, I thank the Lord for getting me out before I had to stain myself complying with that garbage.

    Sometimes I even think it would have been better if the Commies won.

  148. El Dato says:

    Meanwhile in Blighty, RT is having a field day, but misses an occasion to issue a subheading saying “Masters of the Ford Galaxy!”

    Let me borrow your ride: US gets UK carrier, while her captain gets the boot

    The captain of the HMS Queen Elizabeth has ust been relieved of command, reportedly over borrowing the ship’s car for personal use. Yet the US Marines are about to do basically the same with the Royal Navy’s flagship carrier.

    Commodore Nick Cook-Priest, who took over as captain of the Queen Elizabeth (R08) in October 2018, has just been “reassigned” and ordered to sail the ship back to Portsmouth after a dry-dock refit.

    “We can only say that management action is ongoing and it would therefore be inappropriate to comment further,” the Royal Navy said in a statement. Several UK media outlets, however, reported that Cook-Priest was reprimanded for using the ship’s official car, a Ford Galaxy minivan, for personal trips on the weekends.

    Gratuitous Song!

  149. Wilkey says:
    @stillCARealist

    Are you saying the sailors used to form homosexual unions (temporary, I guess) while out at sea for months, or whatever? I guess it’s good that females are aboard now.

    Perhaps sodomy grosses you out, but most sailors won’t get jealous if two dudes on their ship are shagging. If 24 female sailors are shagging 43 male sailors that will cause serious problems with another 50 or so men who may want some action but aren’t getting any. It will cause problems with the sailors who want their girlfriends to be exclusive. It will cause problems with the chaste female women (yes, they are still quite a few) who are simply assumed to be sleeping with someone but aren’t, or who are assumed to be lesbians. It will cause problems with the spouses of these sailors back home who now have even more reasons to doubt their fidelity. Men at sea may be able to avoid temptation during brief periods of shore leave, but being surrounded round the clock by young women who are, on average, quite fit, will test any man’s willpower.

    Having women in the Navy is far more than about destroying military morale and pushing the feminist agenda. It’s about undermining the family life of those in the service – even those who are entirely chaste. But I guess that’s part of the feminist agenda, too.

    • Replies: @jim jones
    , @AKAHorace
  150. jim jones says:
    @Wilkey

    Surely those randy sailor boys could be given drugs to reduce their libido?

  151. @Chris Mallory

    A key that opens many locks is called a master key. A lock that opens for lots of keys is just a really bad lock.

  152. Sean says:
    @Almost Missouri

    As a woman who worked as a retail store manager once told me, if you just ask the lovebirds “which one of you are going to leave” that puts a stop to it and everyone can get back to work, but the worst are gays because everything is so dramatic. Women make gestures, but men actually commit suicide. Gay men have the worst of both worlds and tend to off themselves over rejections Whether any physical expression was involved, and quite possibly Truitt was not aware of Harwig’s true feelings, I have no way of knowing. Hartwig was a loner with a string of intense man crushes. The balance of probability is he did it with some kind of IED, and there is a witness who maintains he discussed IED timers. (the same guy interviewed in 60 minutes who says no one in the Navy community thought Hartwig did it). It was a detonation rather than a flash, which is unprecedented. If you look outside of a winter morning and see snow on the ground, then that is virtual proof of it having fell from the sky during the night. Circumstantial evidence can be the very best kind.

    Martin Van Creveld says in a process that occurs in every occupation, the armed forces will fall apart with women because capable men will no longer see it as a desirable career.

    http://www.martin-van-creveld.com/better-buy-a-dildo/

    Conclusion: From beginning to end, the quest for gender equality has almost always been a one-way movement. Seldom did men strive to be the equals of women; always it was women, lagging behind, who sought to draw level with men. Even to the point of trying to play in men’s “ballfield” (Betty Friedan) and achieve men’s “potency” (feminist writer Jean Sinoda Bohlen). Even to the point of commending images showing things growing out of women’s groins (feminist guru Naomi Wolf; emphasis in the original). Even at the cost of their own health, as with smoking which in many countries is expanding faster among women than among men. Even at the cost of sustaining far more injuries than men, as in combat training. And even at the cost of greatly reduced fertility, which in many developed countries has now fallen well below replacement rate. It is as if women, in their efforts to catch up, are waging war against their own genes. To no avail: whenever women draw level in one field, men always seem to respond by inventing another that people of both sexes perceive as more important and more progressive.
    .

    • Replies: @Franz
    , @Art Deco
  153. Anonymous[249] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anon7

    [Susan Ridge] is the very model of the modern major general!

    Note that Major General gogrrrl still felt the need to have plastic surgery.

  154. L Woods says:
    @Steve from Detroit

    And nowhere will you meet more crimestopped befuddlement than in the current year military itself.

  155. 68W58 says:
    @BenKenobi

    “ I guarantee every heterosexual female “sailor” on that boat was banging at least one of the men.”
    Very likely her supervisor or at least someone in her chain who could make her life easier, I was in units that had females and those that didn’t and life was a lot simpler in those without.

  156. @Anonymous

    A427, give the women an all female sub. There settled that. They don’t have to parallel park subs do they?

  157. From the headline…”sex acts they wanted to perform with the women.” Not forced on them but with them. It’s called fantasy sex.

  158. Franz says:
    @Sean

    Martin Van Creveld says in a process that occurs in every occupation, the armed forces will fall apart with women because capable men will no longer see it as a desirable career.

    Sean, I respect Van Creveld’s erudation but all the USA would have had to do was look at the old USSR to find tons of counter-examples to feminist dogma. They were the first to try some of this crap.

    In the 1970s the Russians build a massive, then-state-of-the-art truck plant on the Kama River. Tons of physicians from the metropolitan Moscow area were quitting the medical profession and volunteering to be lowly industrial workers. And all guys. Why?

    Rogue anthropologists told them it was coming, as it turned out. After WWII, the USSR single mindedly feminized its medical sector and “being a doctor” no longer carried to social status it once did. Whenever that happens, males respond by downgrading the status of the field in question, and leaving if they are in it.

    Same’s happening back in the USA, thanks to the blunderous DEA and CDC. Since the “drug war” expanded, a visit to the doctor’s office is now equivalent to checking in with the Police State.

    Expect lots of male medicos to discover the fine bracing virtues of logging, trucking… anything to get out of medicine. Already started where I live.

    • Replies: @Sean
  159. @Chrisnonymous

    It’s incredible to me how stupid the Navy is about the Navy. I used to be interested in the Navy and sad that that I didn’t make a career there. Nowadays, I am so glad I made the decisions I did about service.

    I wonder what Norman Scott would think of this and how it affects combat readiness. After the Navy got caught with its pants down off Savo Island at the start of the Guadalcanal campaign in August 1942, he took the surface fleet and did relentless night action drills taking the lessons learned from that battle and was able to give it back to the Japanese surface fleet in the Battle of Cape Esperance in October 1942. 77 years ago coming this August. Might as well have been 770 years ago.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norman_Scott_(admiral)

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Savo_Island

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Cape_Esperance

  160. Ahhh the modern U.S. Navy, a couple of items stand out from the report on the relatively recent collision of USS Fitzgerald, a destroyer.

    The probe exposes how personal distrust led the officer of the deck, Lt. j.g. Sarah Coppock, to avoid communicating with the destroyer’s electronic nerve center — the combat information center, or CIC — while the Fitzgerald tried to cross a shipping superhighway.

    So who ran the CIC?

    The Fitz’s commanding officer, Cmdr. Bryce Benson, and Lt. Natalie Combs, who ran the CIC, are battling similar charges in court but contend unlawful command influence by senior leaders scuttled any chance for fair trials.

    My thoroughly reeducated White male mind would never speculate that maybe there was a little cat fighting among the female officers? FYI this is what was found inside the CIC by the investigating officer Rear Adm. Brian Fort.

    When Fort walked into the trash-strewn CIC in the wake of the disaster, he was hit with the acrid smell of urine. He saw kettlebells on the deck and bottles filled with pee. Some radar controls didn’t work and he soon discovered crew members who didn’t know how to use them anyway.

    And the names of the sailors who died.

    Sailors Xavier Martin, Dakota Rigsby, Shingo Douglass, Tan Huynh, Noe Hernandez, Carlos Sibayan and Gary Rehm drowned in the disaster.

    Sounding like a cornucopia of diversity. Read it all https://www.navytimes.com/news/your-navy/2019/01/14/worse-than-you-thought-inside-the-secret-fitzgerald-probe-the-navy-doesnt-want-you-to-read/

  161. Franz says:
    @Achmed E. Newman

    As an old sailor who lives on the lakes, thanks for posting this.

    Lots younger when “The Fitz” went down but i vividly remember the imprompu, frigid service we held on the shore of Lake Erie less then ten miles from where the ship would have docked had it survived.

    Never heard this version of Gord’s song. Only heard the original; like this version better. A Canadian, Lightfoot was moved to write this song when Newsweek magazine got the details of the shipwreck wrong.

    Righteous anger with the MSM is a terrific artistic goad; as seen here, a tradition of many years standing.

    • Agree: AKAHorace
  162. 68W58 says:
    @BB753

    Among the worst, lots of competition for that honor.

    • Agree: BB753
  163. Corn says:
    @Oleaginous Outrager

    Why do young women nowadays act so surprised that men want to bang them?

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
  164. Gluggity says:
    @tazman69er

    Probably not.

    The Florida is an SSGN and is not generally considered part of the triad like SSBN’s. Four of the SSBN’s were converted to carry cruise missiles (becoming SSGNs) instead of ballistic missiles as part of an arms control treaty with Russia.

    While it’s possible those tomahawks or torpedos have nuclear payloads, that is no different than any fast attack sub that also carries tomahawks and torpedos… that is to say unlikely.

  165. Sean says:
    @Franz

    I did not know before reading that piece of Van Creveld that the original feminist, Alexandra Kollontai, was rumoured to be Stalin’s mistress. Her being the only member of the Bolsheviks’ Central Committee that had led the October Revolution to survive the purges is now more explicable .

  166. @Pericles

    It’s probably impossible to get hired as a white man in HR – after all, it’s HR – those are the ones who decide who gets hired. They don’t want anyone to spoil their little fiefdoms. Hiring them wouldn’t produce diversity, as far as I’ve learned of the definition (from context). All women and bringing the not-white ratio up past 75%, now that’d diversity, baby!

  167. @Corn

    You mean when they’re not 60 lb overweight? I dunno.

  168. Anonymous[427] • Disclaimer says:
    @JimS

    The Brits use the C-word pretty frequently. It rubs off on the women. Big LMM went on a tirade over concertgoers in Dubai using cell phone cameras :

    https://www.nme.com/news/music/pretenders-calls-phone-using-fans-cnts-walks-off-stage-2154756

    • Replies: @ScarletNumber
  169. L Woods says:
    @Chrisnonymous

    You can imagine how those of us feel that did.

  170. Cortes says:
    @Jus' Sayin'...

    “Not to worry! There will be very few females on board if naval vessels seriously deploy for a war. A major problem in all the services has been the sudden increases in females reporting injuries, illness or pregnancy when exceptionally long or dangerous deployments are in the offing. This has been a major planning issue ever since females were allowed into combat positions.”

    It’s been suggested to me that the British MoD has recently changed to a “zero tolerance” approach to fairweather service personnel whose reluctance to accept postings was indulged in the past. “Go or resign” is the refrain.

    • Replies: @L Woods
  171. Art Deco says:
    @Sean

    Well, someone bought into the trial balloon floated by the Naval Investigative Service. Boo Yah.

    • Replies: @Sean
  172. 68W58 says:
    @Ibound1

    One of Obama’s SECDEFs did it on his last day in office (really).

  173. Hibernian says:
    @dvorak

    Two of those we’ve been at war with and one of our states had its own war with one of them.

  174. @dvorak

    We’re next to Canada, Mexico and Bahamas.

    Especialmente fabuloso is that if Weimerica were ever, Quetzalcoatl forbid, invaded by Mexico, they totally wouldn’t be able to count on Quinta Columna assistance – because… United We Stand.

  175. @Anonymous

    Russian boats are fairy safe

    Wrong kind of fraternizing.

  176. @nebulafox

    Well, the Navy was known to be relatively more gay friendly than the other branches back in the DADT days.

    Yes, we are all familiar with the work of the Village People.

  177. FLgeezer says:
    @Captain Tripps

    Absolutely hilarious. Thank you Cap’n. 😂😠

  178. @Hibernian

    Yes, I remember on M*A*S*H that all the nurses reported only to Hot Lips.

  179. @Steve from Detroit

    Catherine Bell

    Her Sarah MacKenzie made a cameo on the season finale of NCIS: Los Angeles.

  180. @bored identity

    Not to get all aspergy and resort to the red pencil, but in the Russian alphabet ш and щ are distinctly different letters. Товарищ 🙂

    https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/товарищ (great site, BTW).

    • Replies: @bored identity
  181. @Chris Mallory

    Where the men massive sluts too or were you virginal choir boys?

    Your question is nonsensical as written.

  182. @Anonymous

    The C Word is much less offensive there than it in here.

  183. @metatrоn

    He does a decent job every year at the May 9 parades, though. His salute is a little off, IMHO, but imagine the stress.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  184. @Sean

    Clap like you would for Mike Pence?

  185. L Woods says:
    @theMann

    Rather you return with half a dozen harems. Not a situation to incline one to close cooperation, great exertion or self-sacrifice. All this talk about wars with “near peer adversaries” is hilariously delusional: there just aren’t enough suckers to prosecute any such thing.

  186. Nowadays, there are cameras all over the factory floor. Workers getting behind or not following protocol are called into the office and shown snapshots of their transgressions. Nevertheless, a couple of lovebirds tried to get away with smooching and grinding against the machines. They were caught. They were shown the torrid pictures and both got the axe. The woman was married, too. And the pictures were shared out to the company’s other plants for educational purposes, of course.

  187. Anonymous[427] • Disclaimer says:
    @Kibernetika

    The Russians could sell a few of those parade cars over here if they could get the safety and emissions certs. Best to sell them as glider kits and have a GM powertrain put in here. I bet some rappers would buy in if Sprewells and other such accessories were optional.

  188. AKAHorace says:
    @Steve from Detroit

    I have to explain to people why it’s a bad idea to put women on a USN submarine. Why do we have to discuss this?

    From a bit of reading about submarines I get the impression that submariners are brave, smart, organised and extremely polite. The last as they are forced to share small living quarters between themselves. They don’t seem to be particularly athletic. Women, on average, may not be suited for the combat infantry but I have met ones who seem brave, smart, organised and extremely polite even if not always athletic. How well would an all female submarine crew do ? I am asking from what I have read and have no first hand experience in the navy or even the military or police.

    Explain to me like I am five.

  189. AKAHorace says:
    @Wilkey

    Perhaps sodomy grosses you out, but most sailors won’t get jealous if two dudes on their ship are shagging. If 24 female sailors are shagging 43 male sailors that will cause serious problems with another 50 or so men who may want some action but aren’t getting any. It will cause problems with the sailors who want their girlfriends to be exclusive. It will cause problems with the chaste female women (yes, they are still quite a few) who are simply assumed to be sleeping with someone but aren’t, or who are assumed to be lesbians. It will cause problems with the spouses of these sailors back home who now have even more reasons to doubt their fidelity. Men at sea may be able to avoid temptation during brief periods of shore leave, but being surrounded round the clock by young women who are, on average, quite fit, will test any man’s willpower.

    I have heard that in the Army there may be men and women together, but they are all out in the field together where there are no showers, so everyone stinks, nor privacy. In the Navy everyone can shower and there are rooms which are unoccupied.

  190. @Glaivester

    God, I just knew somebody was going to say that…

  191. I remember one time as a kid, me and one of my best friends, and our dads, went to a Nuggets game one bitter cold winter night, back in the days of the old McNichols arena. Riding home that night in the back of my dad’s truck underneath the camper shell, my friend and I were, for some reason, amusing ourselves with jokes about “what if women ran the navy?” We were cracking up thinking about how they would probably paint the nuclear missile subs hot pink so that they would be completely visible 400 feet underwater, and all kinds of other assorted nonsense. Every link in the chain of witticisms was hilarious simply because the premise “women in the navy” was so self-evidently absurd.

    That is how an untwisted male mind reacts to this subject. It’s incredible to think that, lo these many years later, the intrinsically preposterous has actually become de rigueur.

  192. @Kibernetika

    No need to be overly orthodox about the whole thing;

    Not only is it all Greek to bored identity, but his only remaining Russian responsive keyboard is getting dry-cleaned.

  193. Anonymous[268] • Disclaimer says:
    @nebulafox

    Navy was actually more homophobic in some ways. I had a sailor who worked for me who turned out to be gay. This was before don’t ask, don’t tell or the even later allowance policy. He was off the boat immediately and sent to squadron. The reason was fear for his safety.

  194. Anonymous[268] • Disclaimer says:

    Bush I pulled nuclear Tomahawks off the boats in the early 90s. Of course, they could be back or this platform (with a huge battery of missiles), might have some even if regular attack boats don’t. I wouldn’t see this as really changing the dynamics of the ship or of the crew. Yes, you have to take additional safety precautions, but attack boats were used to that pre Bush I change.

    If anything larger ships like boomer subs are easier to put females on. (This is a converted boomer.) Also, the boomers have much more regular schedules and just an easier life. This is also amenable to incorporating women. Attack subs tend to be more elite, stay up all night and fix things, get underway and change missions, etc.

    This ship as an SSGN would have the space considerations but not the easier schedule, twin crewing etc.

  195. @Desiderius

    Those online pals were happy to explain that all girls lie—especially about rape. And they had lots more knowledge to impart. They told Sam that Islam is an inherently violent religion and that Jews run global financial networks. (We’re Jewish and don’t know anyone who runs anything, but I guess the evidence was convincing.) They insisted that the wage gap is a fallacy, that feminazis are destroying families, that people need guns to protect themselves from government incursions onto private property. They declared that women who abort their babies should be jailed.

    This woman is outraged total strangers told her son the basic truths of sociopolitical reality. She ought, of course, to be ashamed; the same way a parent should be ashamed of strangers feeding their child because they were too stupid or evil to themselves.* It’s especially bizarre because much of the points are also the basic principles of ethics and American values, so of course, we learn its (((one of them))) clutching its pearls and everything is illuminated.

    An important point is the humble-bragging lie; it gives away much of the game but could not be resisted by the smug authoress: No couple living in a suburb of Washington and able (with difficulty or not) to send a child to a private school can possibly “not know anyone who runs anything.”

    Hell, I’m much a sole provider, earning no where near the money it would take to do all that, yet my boss’ boss (whom I know well), along with a hojillion professional colleagues whom I know very well, and even a few true friends around the country, run all kinds of shit. Some of these acquaintances are extremely wealthy and powerful, in fact. Sure, I’m not bosom buddies with most of them, but I could never write I “don’t know anybody who runs anything” without being disingenuous. Most professionals more than, say, thirty years old could not.

    [I feared my son would become] merciless, intolerant, unwilling to extend the benefit of the doubt to anyone.

    Notice she fears her son will become like her, without an iota of self-awareness about the irony in her statement.

    The piece closes with a schmaltzy anecdote about how the authoress is moved to tears by the bravery of some goofy, leftist nut she and her son encounter at a rally for normal Americans, praising the goofus’ bravery – another hilarious lack of situational awareness, as anyone with ears and eyes knows well who must be brave and faces danger, and who commits violence with impunity, at such events.

    We saw this distinction recently, inter alia, in San José, Berkeley, and Charlottesville – which the authoress un-ironically cites as the opposite of what it was: a crazed mob accosting a man trying to peacefully leave the scene, a death wholly the mob’s – and, particularly, the bullying deceased’s – fault, then a kangaroo-court framing the guy for murder on some tortured construction of proximate cause making us all liable for murder tomorrow morning if, during our commutes on the freeway, a maniac should jump in front of our speeding cars.**

    The article is a concise and powerful study in the lunacy of GloboHomo, and its introduction all one needs to know about the imperative to protect children from public schools at any cost.

    I am glad this creature’s son saw his parents’ evil and rebelled. It’s hope for the future.

    *I do not refer to genuine poverty despite best efforts, followed by charity, which can happen and is not cause for shame.

    **Just as Norm MacDonald noticed Orenthal Simpson ushered in the legalisation of murder in California, so too did Heather Hyer demonstrate that driving is now murder in Virginia….

  196. Sean says:
    @Art Deco

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/politics/1989/09/10/the-different-faces-of-clayton-hartwig/832775ca-b2f2-4f2d-9f79-9589597c9d26/?utm_term=.f5a522f323a4

    ” I don’t want to see Clay Hartwig labeled by the press as a homicidal maniac who killed 47 people,” the friend said. …. “He told me he wanted to die in the line of duty and be buried in Arlington cemetery so he’d be remembered,” the sailor told investigators. […] But to a gay shipmate …. “I knew he had the tendencies …I asked him just point blank, ‘Clay, are you gay? ‘ “… Hartwig, who was 6 feet 2 and weighed more than 200 pounds, “always liked to portray the bad-ass image,” according to another shipmate. “He used to talk about gassing people. . . about sticking gasoline-soaked toothpicks in people so they would die in a slow way.” “Death and destruction was Clay’s power trip,” said a sailor who spent a lot of time with him on the Iowa. “That’s everything he did; everything he said. It always led back down to the bottom line of death and destruction. I thought he was unstable . . . . ”

    There had never been an explosion like that in a cold gun with the first shot, and such guns were fired 1000 times without incident subsequently. Hartwig’s job in the loading sequence was to put a slice of bread sized package containing lead foil between the powder bags. Opportunity. It is an undisputed fact he had an IED manual in his locker. Means.

    MILITARY MEDICINE, 169, 4:301, 2004

    Surveillance of Completed Suicide in the Department of the Navy

    Table VI lists 13 different stressors that decedents may have experienced in the year before their uicide. The most common stressor was a problem in a romantic relationship, which was evident in 54% of all DoN cases.

    Motive. It’s not unreasonable to think that he probabally did it.
    Clayton, what it is about murderers from services families and that name.

  197. I grew up in a military town, with lots of then-current/ex mil types around.

    One fellow told me about the time when he reported for his night watch (shift) at Checkpoint Charlie.

    He walked in on the two guys on-duty (the ones scheduled to be relieved). They were, well, you know, making the world safe for democracy.

    I knew a gal who had moved back home after quitting USMA — one of the first gals ever to go (and drop). She explained that she realized that she didn’t want to learn how to kill people. What did she expect?

    When will we get to read transcripts of the explicit comments, or will we have to wait for the movie: Debbie Does USS Dallas?

  198. And that, children, is how Mark Zuckerberg became a billionaire.

    Original sin is so blase.

  199. @Chris Mallory

    Men have historically always been massive sluts, given their imperative to spread their genes as widely as possible.

    Women have historically not been massive sluts, given the need for a partner to help raise their children. In Western countries, welfare and contraception is changing that calculation, but it can’t alter female behaviour that quickly.

    If women were as ‘slutty’ as men, the heterosexual mating scene would be like the homosexual one. While there might be a fair bit of sluttery in a Friday night club, it’s just nowhere near the scale of the gay scene – at least an order of magnitude less, maybe two.

  200. J.Ross says: • Website

    Had the acts all been performed without any list, nothing would have happened.
    Every veteran and servicemember knows that there is a massive amount of illegal sex happening and it’s a huge uncontrolled issue. Right before invading Iraq, there was a small Army something-or-other an hour away from where I was using communications wire to kludge sandbags onto a humvee (because the sandbags were “armor,” in the same sense that the Iraq War was legal and necessary), where every single female tested positive for rattle-fixated cooing gut parasites at the same time. Their Sergeant Major to his credit refused to let them have what they thought they were now getting, a ticket home, and kept them in a sort of relaxed confinement. Females frequently “become” pregnant right before an unpleasant deployment. Former sexual partners often refuse to recognize their lover’s rank while at work. It’s a huge problem and bringing attention to it would be a much-needed and much-appreciated news function.
    That’s not what this story is. This story is an illustration that we are becoming a third world country. Third world countries commonly exhibit a paradox in law enforcement: such a state may be called lawless, or thought of as chaotic, or have it said that its police take bribes. Yet at the same time the police will often be draconian and precise. What is happening is that the government cannot guarantee order, so it massively overcompensates with localized cartoon Nazism: in one spot murder is tolerated, but around the corner a car is impounded for improper parking (and being easier to deal with and less scary than the machetero). This is why they talk about Russia and pick fights with Arabs and Iranians.
    Our leaders can’t do anything, but if they hear you saying that out loud, you’ll get it.

  201. L Woods says:
    @Cortes

    Pregnant women will be exempt, just like in the U.S. military.

  202. @nokangaroos

    “Ancient Lebanese sniper´s wisdom”

    And how, may I ask, did you come by that little tidbit?

  203. Funniest words in the article: “for an event of this magnitude”.

    Let’s hope we never have to fight another war.

  204. Lagertha says:
    @Moses

    he was probably someone I know.

  205. Lagertha says:
    @dvorak

    Dvorak (it is a pseudonym, for sure?) Finns were never ‘invaded’, btw – they never were a country until 1917 – and, they fought a civil war for that to sustain.

  206. Lagertha says:
    @Neuday

    Dvorak (it is a pseudonym, for sure?) Finns were never ‘invaded’, btw – they never were a country until 1917 – and, they fought a civil war for that to sustain.

    My grandfathers killed dozens (one, a sharpshooter) and the other, a battalion leader, killed thousands.…of course, bleeding into WW2…both suffered from PTSD, but they also knew they had to kill and call the call. 10 years from now, if the USA is not a totalitarian state run by well, as early as 2021, you all can thank soldiers like my family, and other soldiers in your town. Grow the F*ck up and have some respect for stuff men and women 50 years ago could not control!

    • Replies: @Lagertha
  207. Lagertha says:
    @Achmed E. Newman

    I totally understand the “bail” place – we are friends…and, that is what it will come down to.

  208. Lagertha says:
    @Lagertha

    I still stand by my comment – I hate dissenters.

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