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From the New York Times:

Michael Flynn Pleads Guilty to Lying to the F.B.I. and Will Cooperate With Russia Inquiry
By MICHAEL D. SHEAR and ADAM GOLDMAN DEC. 1, 2017

WASHINGTON — President Trump’s former national security adviser, Michael T. Flynn, pleaded guilty on Friday to lying to the F.B.I. about conversations with the Russian ambassador last December, becoming the first senior White House official to cut a cooperation deal in the special counsel’s wide-ranging inquiry into election interference.

Remind me: When was the election? In January? February? Very late December?

… Investigators working for the special counsel have questioned witnesses about whether Mr. Flynn was secretly paid by Turkish officials during the campaign. After he left the White House, Mr. Flynn disclosed that the Turkish government had paid him more than a half-million dollars to represent its interests in a dispute with the United States.

This is about Imam Gulen in the Poconos, whom the American deep state apparently set up a long time ago as a Turkish regime-in-waiting and has been allowing to skim hundreds of millions of America taxpayer dollars from Gulen’s giant chain of charter schools in America.

Prosecutors did not charge Mr. Flynn with crimes related to his work with the Turkish government. But in documents, they made clear that they have evidence that Mr. Flynn “made materially false statements and omissions” in his federal filings about that lobbying work.

What it sounds like is Mueller is letting Flynn walk on the Turkish stuff, which appears to be pretty bad, in return for taking a fall on the minor Martha Stewart-like Russian stuff … Does that make sense?

… According to prosecutors, on Dec. 22, Mr. Flynn discussed with Mr. Kislyak an upcoming United Nations Security Council vote on whether to condemn Israel’s building of settlements. At the time, the Obama administration was preparing to allow a Security Council vote on the matter.

Mr. Mueller’s investigators have learned through witnesses and documents that Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu of Israel asked the Trump transition team to lobby other countries to help Israel, according to two people briefed on the inquiry. Investigators have learned that Mr. Flynn and Mr. Kushner took the lead in those efforts.

Mr. Mueller’s team has emails that show Mr. Flynn saying he would work to kill the vote, the people briefed on the matter said.

In other words, there were tons of Israeli influence and Turkish influence. But that’s okay because if you can’t trust Erdogan to have the American people’s best interests at heart, who can you trust?

From the Washington Examiner today:

ABC News issued a correction Friday on a report published earlier in the day that stated former National Security Advisor Michael Flynn was instructed by President Trump to contact Russians while Trump was still a candidate.

… The impact of the initial report was significant as several news outlets, including the Washington Examiner, attributed ABC News’ reporting in writeups of their own. Also after the report was published in the morning, the Dow plummeted 350 points, but later recovered.

 
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  1. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/abc-news-issues-correction-trump-did-not-ask-michael-flynn-to-contact-the-russians-as-a-candidate/article/2642355

    ABC News issued a correction Friday on a report published earlier in the day that stated former National Security Advisor Michael Flynn was instructed by President Trump to contact Russians while Trump was still a candidate.

    … The impact of the initial report was significant as several news outlets, including the Washington Examiner, attributed ABC News’ reporting in writeups of their own. Also after the report was published in the morning, the Dow plummeted 350 points, but later recovered.

  2. • Replies: @eah
    https://twitter.com/ramzpaul/status/936582975810138112
    , @Pericles

    Why Is There No “Saudi-Gate”?

     

    Why is the US run from the Middle East?
  3. OK, do I have this right: Jewish leader of Jewish Isreal has Trump’s Jewish son in law use USA power to stop UN condemnation of evil things that Jewish Israel is doing.

    If I was a crazy racist hater, that might make me think that Jews can control the US government.

    • Replies: @El Dato
    You ARE crazy.

    By definition, Jews don't control anything.
    , @reiner Tor
    Wow, you sound just like a Nazi! Like all people with a common sense.
    , @Colleen Pater
    yeah if anything its about jews interfering in US policy, dog bites man
  4. Wall Street rocked by Michael Flynn, tax debate

    At one point the Dow plunged 350 points after ABC News reported that Flynn is prepared to testify that President Trump “as a candidate” directed him to make contact with Russians. ABC later clarified the report, saying that Trump did not tell Flynn to reach out to Russia during the campaign.

    http://money.cnn.com/2017/12/01/investing/dow-drops-flynn-trump/index.html

  5. conversations with the Russian ambassador

    This is hysteria.

    “Talking to a Russian is tantamount to treason.”

    Are the people pushing this line familiar with the concept of diplomacy, and diplomatic representation?

    • Replies: @Cagey Beast
    Imagine what the Americans would say if the Russians fired a senior advisor to Putin and then convicted him of criminal charges for speaking to the US Ambassador in his official capacity?
  6. @Hail

    conversations with the Russian ambassador
     
    This is hysteria.

    "Talking to a Russian is tantamount to treason."

    Are the people pushing this line familiar with the concept of diplomacy, and diplomatic representation?

    Imagine what the Americans would say if the Russians fired a senior advisor to Putin and then convicted him of criminal charges for speaking to the US Ambassador in his official capacity?

  7. Flynn’s name suddenly disappeared from Twitter’s list of top trending topics. That seems to have happened soon after this story from The Hill came out saying:

    The White House said on Friday that it was the Obama administration that authorized former national security adviser Michael Flynn’s contacts with Russian Ambassador Sergey Kislyak during President Trump’s transition, according to CNN.

    http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/362856-cnn-white-house-claims-obama-admin-approved-flynn-calls-with-russian

    • Replies: @El Dato

    It was a bright cold day in April, and the clocks were striking thirteen. Winston Smith, his chin nuzzled into his breast in an effort to escape the vile wind, slipped quickly through the glass doors of Victory Mansions, though not quickly enough to prevent a swirl of gritty dust from entering along with him.

    The hallway smelt of greasy fries and old rag mats. At one end of it a coloured poster, too large for indoor display, had been tacked to the wall. It depicted simply an enormous face, more than a metre wide: the face of some anonymous TV presenter of about forty-five, with a enormous fake grin and wide eyes indicating the use of narcotics. Winston made for the stairs. It was no use trying the lift. Even at the best of times it was seldom working, and at present the electric current was cut off during daylight hours. It was part of the economy drive in preparation for Hate Week. The flat was seven flights up, and Winston, who was thirty-nine and had a varicose ulcer above his right ankle, went slowly, resting several times on the way. On each landing, opposite the lift-shaft, the poster with the enormous face gazed from the wall. It was one of those pictures which are so contrived that the eyes follow you about when you move. BIG BROTHER IS A CLOWN, the caption beneath it ran.
     
  8. This is bad, and getting worse. Kushner needs to leave the Administration, amateur hour is over.

    More indictments seem likely, and Manafort is headed to trial with Flynn testifying against him.

    Under ordinary conditions, we would be calling on Trump to resign.

    • Troll: IHTG
    • Replies: @Daniel H
    >>Under ordinary conditions, we would be calling on Trump to resign.

    Why? What high crime or misdemeanor has Trump been accused of, let alone convicted of?
    , @anonymous

    Under ordinary conditions, we would be calling on Trump to resign.
     
    How can you even think this? The supposed nefarious act Trump committed was colluding with the Russians during his presidential campaign to apparently steal and disseminate DNC emails, Hillary emails, spread false news about HRC, etc.

    So far the Manafort charges relate to things that happened prior to his involvement with Trump.

    The Flynn guilty plea involves meeting with the Russians AFTER the election. And until I hear the nature of the "lie" I will withhold judgment on Flynn. It might be a case of saying something to an FBI agent and then saying something slightly different at a later date to another agent. His mistake was speaking to them without his lawyer and without recording what he said.

    The Kushner connection appears to be getting Flynn to meet the Russians and other members of the security council on behalf of Israel AFTER the election too.

    In other words nothing brought forth so far supports the thesis that Trump colluded with the Russians during the campaign to steal the election.

    And now comes news that team Trump is claiming that the Obama administration actually green lighted Flynn's meeting with the Russian ambassador in December. If true that would be a huge boomerang. Recall Trump tweeting earlier this year about being wiretapped and everyone mocked his claim. Later it turned out to be mostly accurate. So my guess is this claim about Flynn being authorized to meet with the Russians by the previous admin might have a kernel of truth too.
  9. Why lying to FBI is a crime? It should be a god given right to lie to police? Only in America.

    • Agree: EdwardM
    • Replies: @Diversity Heretic
    You have a good point. In Europe the police more or less believe everyone is lying to them, or at least shading the truth. So you don't see prosecutions along these lines. The Martha Stewart and IIRC Michael Deaver cases were also along these lines: no conviction for any of the underlying offenses, but convictions for statements made in the course of the investigation. It's a bad feature of the American criminal justice system. It's why criminal justice lawyers, almost to a man, tell clients never to talk to the police.
    , @Mr. Anon

    Why lying to FBI is a crime? It should be a god given right to lie to police? Only in America.
     
    I agree. The police can (and will, and do) lie to you. Why shouldn't you be allowed to lie to them.
  10. anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    Here is a new wrinkle from late today.

    The White House said on Friday that it was the Obama administration that authorized former national security adviser Michael Flynn’s contacts with Russian Ambassador Sergey Kislyak during President Trump’s transition, according to CNN.

    First, why would White House say this? This is something akin to Trump tweeting that Obama “wiretapped” him.

    Second, if true this could really blow up on the democrats.

    • Replies: @guest
    That is not akin to wiretaps. Authorizing a member of the incoming administration to talk to Russians comes off as downright normal to me. Spying on your political opponents, perhaps without a warrant, is something else.
  11. @eah
    https://twitter.com/JulianAssange/status/936718987282604032

  12. Trump invited this on himself to some extent, by not keeping Flynn on a short enough leash and then throwing him under the bus; by mishandling the firing of Comey and thus allowing the witch-hunt to commence; and by listening to his stupid lawyers who thought the special investigation would be “over by Thanksgiving”. Trump most likely understands these errors, because Bannon has been vocal about them.

    The Democratic party’s victory may be a deceptive one. (1) People are already unearthing cases of similar conduct by people in the Obama and Hillary camps. E.g. Hillary reached out to China before the election. (2) Trump can hold to his guns and insist that his team was only doing its job by contacting the Russians following the November election victory. (3) Team Trump can point out that whatever Flynn did was not “collusion” and there remains 0 evidence of any “collusion”. (4) Team Trump can go after Obama for spying on Flynn. (5) Team Trump can go after Mueller for pursuing the investigation in bad faith.

    At the end of the day, though the Democratic party’s Russian gambit has proven successful with the frothing, hate-filled, humiliated Democratic base, one doubts that those who are not already prejudiced against Trump have much respect for Mueller’s witch-hunt.

    Curious to see Team Trump’s response.

    • Replies: @Maj. Kong
    The best defense to these charges is a strong offense, we should be defending better relations with Russia at every turn. A Clinton victory would have meant a permanent socialist majority, and the demographic transformation of the country. Putin should be praised for stopping that, if it is true that he was the one that tipped the balance.

    The right-wing is not in an ideological conflict with the Putin Administration, the left-wing is. I see no reason to be angry at a country that doesn't kowtow to gay pride, and a country that is trying to increase its native fertility rather than be submerged by the Third World.
  13. Trump has only himself to blame for letting Flynn go and not defending him.

    • Agree: reiner Tor
  14. Even if it’s not Flynn’s conviction that sets in motion the impeachment of Trump, the Democrats and the rest of the DC establishment will find something else to throw at him. They will not stop, no matter how weak their case is.

    • Agree: Kevin C.
    • Replies: @JimB
    That’s our special prosecutor and grand jury system for you. I’m waiting for someone to invent a computer game where you choose some seemingly harmless scenario: starting a company, winning an elected office, building an addition to your house. You go about this activity, being asked a series of questions about how to proceed. Then, after answering about thirty questions, having made a series of apparently legal choices, the screen flashes red: Grand Jury Summons! Then you engage in a battle of wits against an AI prosecutor trying to indict you. It would really drive home the fact that in the good old USA, given enough time and prosecutorial resources, anyone can be put in jail for life.
    , @Jenner Ickham Errican
    https://twitter.com/that_groyper/status/936759080428990471
    , @ben tillman

    Even if it’s not Flynn’s conviction that sets in motion the impeachment of Trump, the Democrats and the rest of the DC establishment will find something else to throw at him.
     
    I don't see how Flynn's non-"conviction" is relevant to anything.
  15. The Israeli angle will be soft-pedaled by the media, because intervening on behalf of our “friend and ally” would produce sympathy. The coverage will be about Muh Russia with a side order of Turkish dressing.

    And how about that Jared Kushner. What an asset he is to Trump. As long as Jared’s around, there won’t be a wall.

  16. @Maj. Kong
    This is bad, and getting worse. Kushner needs to leave the Administration, amateur hour is over.

    More indictments seem likely, and Manafort is headed to trial with Flynn testifying against him.

    Under ordinary conditions, we would be calling on Trump to resign.

    >>Under ordinary conditions, we would be calling on Trump to resign.

    Why? What high crime or misdemeanor has Trump been accused of, let alone convicted of?

    • Replies: @Maj. Kong
    The administration has played fast and loose with ethics. Flynn was apparently paid to ensure the kidnapping and extradition of Gulen to Turkey. Flynn was "selling access". Trump has attempted to sell access with his golf properties and mar-a-lago.

    Impeachment is not a criminal trial, it is a process similar to a "vote of confidence" in parliamentary systems, it just requires two-thirds for removal, rather than a majority.
    , @guest
    He can't be convicted before he's impeached, to be fair.

    My assumption is that people are guessing Trump has done something or other (it's not that hard, considering all our billions of laws), and that chain reactions of people "flipping" over smaller crimes (like lying to cops) will reveal said something. Maj. Kong must be jumping ahead.
  17. The networks keep trying to pull out one matryoshka doll after another in a vain hope of finding something, anything.

  18. @Cagey Beast
    Even if it's not Flynn's conviction that sets in motion the impeachment of Trump, the Democrats and the rest of the DC establishment will find something else to throw at him. They will not stop, no matter how weak their case is.

    That’s our special prosecutor and grand jury system for you. I’m waiting for someone to invent a computer game where you choose some seemingly harmless scenario: starting a company, winning an elected office, building an addition to your house. You go about this activity, being asked a series of questions about how to proceed. Then, after answering about thirty questions, having made a series of apparently legal choices, the screen flashes red: Grand Jury Summons! Then you engage in a battle of wits against an AI prosecutor trying to indict you. It would really drive home the fact that in the good old USA, given enough time and prosecutorial resources, anyone can be put in jail for life.

    • Agree: Cagey Beast
    • Replies: @guest
    Would the game allow the strategy of buying judges?
  19. @jimbojones
    Trump invited this on himself to some extent, by not keeping Flynn on a short enough leash and then throwing him under the bus; by mishandling the firing of Comey and thus allowing the witch-hunt to commence; and by listening to his stupid lawyers who thought the special investigation would be "over by Thanksgiving". Trump most likely understands these errors, because Bannon has been vocal about them.

    The Democratic party's victory may be a deceptive one. (1) People are already unearthing cases of similar conduct by people in the Obama and Hillary camps. E.g. Hillary reached out to China before the election. (2) Trump can hold to his guns and insist that his team was only doing its job by contacting the Russians following the November election victory. (3) Team Trump can point out that whatever Flynn did was not "collusion" and there remains 0 evidence of any "collusion". (4) Team Trump can go after Obama for spying on Flynn. (5) Team Trump can go after Mueller for pursuing the investigation in bad faith.

    At the end of the day, though the Democratic party's Russian gambit has proven successful with the frothing, hate-filled, humiliated Democratic base, one doubts that those who are not already prejudiced against Trump have much respect for Mueller's witch-hunt.

    Curious to see Team Trump's response.

    The best defense to these charges is a strong offense, we should be defending better relations with Russia at every turn. A Clinton victory would have meant a permanent socialist majority, and the demographic transformation of the country. Putin should be praised for stopping that, if it is true that he was the one that tipped the balance.

    The right-wing is not in an ideological conflict with the Putin Administration, the left-wing is. I see no reason to be angry at a country that doesn’t kowtow to gay pride, and a country that is trying to increase its native fertility rather than be submerged by the Third World.

  20. @Daniel H
    >>Under ordinary conditions, we would be calling on Trump to resign.

    Why? What high crime or misdemeanor has Trump been accused of, let alone convicted of?

    The administration has played fast and loose with ethics. Flynn was apparently paid to ensure the kidnapping and extradition of Gulen to Turkey. Flynn was “selling access”. Trump has attempted to sell access with his golf properties and mar-a-lago.

    Impeachment is not a criminal trial, it is a process similar to a “vote of confidence” in parliamentary systems, it just requires two-thirds for removal, rather than a majority.

    • Replies: @jon

    Impeachment is not a criminal trial, it is a process similar to a “vote of confidence” in parliamentary systems, it just requires two-thirds for removal, rather than a majority.
     
    Just?
  21. Anon • Disclaimer says:

    I’m thinking it might be best if Kushner spent a little time in jail to keep him away from Trump, kill his taste for politics, and make him stay in civilian life when he comes out. The kid’s an idiot. But I doubt he has the sense to butt out. He’s probably trying to use politics to swing himself some real estate deals, and his insatiable greediness is going to drag his father-in-law into trouble at some point.

  22. @utu
    Why lying to FBI is a crime? It should be a god given right to lie to police? Only in America.

    You have a good point. In Europe the police more or less believe everyone is lying to them, or at least shading the truth. So you don’t see prosecutions along these lines. The Martha Stewart and IIRC Michael Deaver cases were also along these lines: no conviction for any of the underlying offenses, but convictions for statements made in the course of the investigation. It’s a bad feature of the American criminal justice system. It’s why criminal justice lawyers, almost to a man, tell clients never to talk to the police.

    • Agree: utu
  23. Looks like Flynn never watched that YouTube video on never talking to cops.

    Don’t talk to cops. They’ll get ya.

  24. What it sounds like is Mueller is letting Flynn walk on the Turkish stuff, which appears to be pretty bad, in return for taking a fall on the minor Martha Stewart-like Russian stuff … Does that make sense?

    It makes sense in one way: if Flynn is offering up somebody Mueller wants much more.

  25. @utu
    Why lying to FBI is a crime? It should be a god given right to lie to police? Only in America.

    Why lying to FBI is a crime? It should be a god given right to lie to police? Only in America.

    I agree. The police can (and will, and do) lie to you. Why shouldn’t you be allowed to lie to them.

  26. Does anyone else recall Obama’s World Tour in the summer of ’08, where he personally met with various world leaders, while still a candidate? I vaguely remember people talking about laws preventing private citizens from conducting diplomacy, but of course those laws are traditionally dead letters.

    Why is this a thing? Must happen all the time. Oh yeah, because Mueller needs dirt, and if cops can’t get you on the crime they’ll settle for lies.* Which is something every human being who bothers talking to them inevitably does.

    *See: “Scooter” Libby, Martha Stewart, etc.

  27. My prediction is that they are going to go after Trump for obstruction of justice, possibly for the Comey firing and previous efforts to get him to let Flynn off the hook, possibly also because he encouraged Flynn or others to lie to or conceal things from the FBI. There’s a track record of these particular prosecutors going that way, it’s something Trump would’ve blundered into in the same way he was ginning up rationales for the Comey firing and cover stories for Don Jr.’s meeting with the Russian lawyer, and it’s one charge that brought Nixon down.

    • Replies: @guest
    "possibly for the Comey firing"

    Would you like to explain to a jury that Comey deserved his job?
    , @Chrisnonymous
    Yes, and none of it having anything to do with the Russians hacking the election, which is what the investigation is supposed to be about.

    They need to change the way they assign these special counsels so that investigations stay within scope. It's not just a problem with Trump but with any and all investigations. This whole thing is a massive waste of time and resources. Just think of all the news-writing and news-reading hours spent by the US people on, basically, some financial shenanigans of Manafort and Flynn. Disgusting.
  28. @Daniel H
    >>Under ordinary conditions, we would be calling on Trump to resign.

    Why? What high crime or misdemeanor has Trump been accused of, let alone convicted of?

    He can’t be convicted before he’s impeached, to be fair.

    My assumption is that people are guessing Trump has done something or other (it’s not that hard, considering all our billions of laws), and that chain reactions of people “flipping” over smaller crimes (like lying to cops) will reveal said something. Maj. Kong must be jumping ahead.

  29. @anonymous
    Here is a new wrinkle from late today.

    The White House said on Friday that it was the Obama administration that authorized former national security adviser Michael Flynn's contacts with Russian Ambassador Sergey Kislyak during President Trump's transition, according to CNN.
     
    First, why would White House say this? This is something akin to Trump tweeting that Obama "wiretapped" him.

    Second, if true this could really blow up on the democrats.

    That is not akin to wiretaps. Authorizing a member of the incoming administration to talk to Russians comes off as downright normal to me. Spying on your political opponents, perhaps without a warrant, is something else.

  30. If Kushner is up next do they really expect him to roll on trump? Hard to see why he would. He’s guaranteed a pardon.

    Ivanka really was Trump’s tragic flaw.

  31. @JimB
    That’s our special prosecutor and grand jury system for you. I’m waiting for someone to invent a computer game where you choose some seemingly harmless scenario: starting a company, winning an elected office, building an addition to your house. You go about this activity, being asked a series of questions about how to proceed. Then, after answering about thirty questions, having made a series of apparently legal choices, the screen flashes red: Grand Jury Summons! Then you engage in a battle of wits against an AI prosecutor trying to indict you. It would really drive home the fact that in the good old USA, given enough time and prosecutorial resources, anyone can be put in jail for life.

    Would the game allow the strategy of buying judges?

  32. @Thomas
    My prediction is that they are going to go after Trump for obstruction of justice, possibly for the Comey firing and previous efforts to get him to let Flynn off the hook, possibly also because he encouraged Flynn or others to lie to or conceal things from the FBI. There’s a track record of these particular prosecutors going that way, it’s something Trump would’ve blundered into in the same way he was ginning up rationales for the Comey firing and cover stories for Don Jr.’s meeting with the Russian lawyer, and it’s one charge that brought Nixon down.

    “possibly for the Comey firing”

    Would you like to explain to a jury that Comey deserved his job?

    • Replies: @Thomas
    Well the “jury” in this case will be Congress in an impeachment. And they won’t phrase it that way. More that “President Trump, in an effort to impede the investigation into his National Security Advisor’s criminal conduct and the counterintelligence investigation into his ties with Russia, fired the director of the FBI without cause.”

    But yeah, in the world bureaucrats live in, Comey deserved his job, or at least not to be tossed out of it on his ass in a needlessly humiliating way. Trump can thank that real move of administrative genius in part for the predicament he’s now in.
  33. >>My prediction is that they are going to go after Trump for obstruction of justice, possibly for the Comey firing and previous efforts to get him to let Flynn off the hook, possibly also because he encouraged Flynn or others to lie to or conceal things from the FBI.

    Who is “they”. The House, the Senate? Special prosecutor can’t do shit against Trump. Let Mueller bite at Trump’s ankles by nailing this or that flunky, who cares.

    Trump had every right to fire Comey, with or without cause.

    >>and it’s one charge that brought Nixon down.

    What brought Nixon down was his own willful resignation. Sure, the House would have impeached, but would the Senate have convicted? Who knows. I can tell you this, though, if a Republican controlled House impeaches, or a Republican controlled Senate convicts, or if even House or Senate Republicans don’t fight vigorously to defend Trump (making conviction impossible) then they can kiss their , cucked, STUPID-ass party goodbye.

    • Replies: @Nico

    What brought Nixon down was his own willful resignation. Sure, the House would have impeached, but would the Senate have convicted?
     
    According to Barry Goldwater, yes. He recounts going to the White House with another GOP senator and informing Nixon that he could count on twelve, tops thirteen votes in the Senate.
  34. anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Maj. Kong
    This is bad, and getting worse. Kushner needs to leave the Administration, amateur hour is over.

    More indictments seem likely, and Manafort is headed to trial with Flynn testifying against him.

    Under ordinary conditions, we would be calling on Trump to resign.

    Under ordinary conditions, we would be calling on Trump to resign.

    How can you even think this? The supposed nefarious act Trump committed was colluding with the Russians during his presidential campaign to apparently steal and disseminate DNC emails, Hillary emails, spread false news about HRC, etc.

    So far the Manafort charges relate to things that happened prior to his involvement with Trump.

    The Flynn guilty plea involves meeting with the Russians AFTER the election. And until I hear the nature of the “lie” I will withhold judgment on Flynn. It might be a case of saying something to an FBI agent and then saying something slightly different at a later date to another agent. His mistake was speaking to them without his lawyer and without recording what he said.

    The Kushner connection appears to be getting Flynn to meet the Russians and other members of the security council on behalf of Israel AFTER the election too.

    In other words nothing brought forth so far supports the thesis that Trump colluded with the Russians during the campaign to steal the election.

    And now comes news that team Trump is claiming that the Obama administration actually green lighted Flynn’s meeting with the Russian ambassador in December. If true that would be a huge boomerang. Recall Trump tweeting earlier this year about being wiretapped and everyone mocked his claim. Later it turned out to be mostly accurate. So my guess is this claim about Flynn being authorized to meet with the Russians by the previous admin might have a kernel of truth too.

    • Replies: @Maj. Kong
    Flynn received payments from at least two foreign governments. Compare it to Iran-Contra and Whitewater. Or compare it to Eric Holder deciding to have the ATF arm the Mexican cartels.

    Flynn isn't being convicted for "lying to the FBI", he's being convicted for his influence peddling. In return he will flip and testify against Manafort, I would still be surprised to see Kushner indicted.

    When you are on the right-wing, you are held to the highest standards, and your complaints will not be taken seriously. We have to adapt to these circumstances, and insist on ethics purity.

    The other side learned the lessons of Weimar, we didn't.
    , @Autochthon

    His mistake was speaking to them without his lawyer and without recording what he said.

    Cops don't prevent or solve crimes and round up criminals much any more. They entrap and inveigle the innocent and unwary. Sam Francis explained it all better than I could long ago when he coined the term anarcho-tyranny. The only things one should say to police include "Do you have a warrant?," "I decline to speak to you," and "Get off my property," – that kind of thing.
     

     
  35. @guest
    "possibly for the Comey firing"

    Would you like to explain to a jury that Comey deserved his job?

    Well the “jury” in this case will be Congress in an impeachment. And they won’t phrase it that way. More that “President Trump, in an effort to impede the investigation into his National Security Advisor’s criminal conduct and the counterintelligence investigation into his ties with Russia, fired the director of the FBI without cause.”

    But yeah, in the world bureaucrats live in, Comey deserved his job, or at least not to be tossed out of it on his ass in a needlessly humiliating way. Trump can thank that real move of administrative genius in part for the predicament he’s now in.

    • Replies: @Maj. Kong
    Comey once condemned the FBI as "too white", he was illegally leaking secret documents. The firing was an error, but it was warranted. Comey is an arrogant prick.
    , @guest
    I was being flip with the jury thing.

    You honestly think the House would impeach Trump for dismissing Comey without cause? Here's a news flash: presidents don't need cause. We're not going through the Andy Johnson thing again.

    But even if Trump needed cause, representatives would be laughed out of office for picking Comey over their own president.

    If it was an effort to impede investigation, good luck proving it. I know the House doesn't need to prove anything, but they'd be way out in Speculation Land. Without an oar, too, because Trump waited until he had plausible cause.

    And I don't get what you mean by thrown out on his ass in a needlessly humiliating way. What, he didn't do the honorable Washington thing and let him resign? Pfft. That would've been the same media circus no matter how Comey was fired.

  36. @Cagey Beast
    Even if it's not Flynn's conviction that sets in motion the impeachment of Trump, the Democrats and the rest of the DC establishment will find something else to throw at him. They will not stop, no matter how weak their case is.

    • Agree: BenKenobi
  37. Lord I hope I’m wrong, but am guessing Mueller wants Flynn to lie about Trump in exchange for his own freedom. The lies will be amplified like an electric guitar plugged into a Marshall Amp in the press in all the screens we gaze at until they become ‘gospil’. Then the Dems/RINOs will move on impeachment stuff citing phony popular consensus. Hate this.

  38. Trump is doomed, and was doomed from the start. He only won the Presidency because ordinary people voted for him. What really matters is the hereditary rulers of the nation, the bureaucracy, oligarchs like Bezos and Gates and Zuck, non-Whites who occupy the nobility class, and the clergy: mediatainment and university people loathe Trump like they do his voters.

    They have not and will not accept Trump nor limits on Open Borders, anti-White hatred, and endless but fruitless secret wars we always lose. This is not something they will accept since it violates their sacred PC Civic Religion. It is an article of faith and piety, not to mention aristocratic standing. Impeachment and removal are POLITICAL judgments, not legal ones. This is why Hillary is hanging around.

    There’s the giant patronage machine she built at stake, her plan is to have Chuck Schemer and Nancy Palsy lead impeachment, with Cuck Ryan and Mitch McTurtle also in the vanguard, convicting both Trump and Pence and installing … Hillary! Who will then wage the War on White Men with a vengeance. President for Life Hillary! will not tolerate you deplorable White men. No way! That’s why the Purge has begun, to make way for the New America Hillary! has planned:

    A. Second Class Legal status formalized for all White men.
    B. Special privileges for non-Whites, lesbians and gays enshrined as a matter of law by various Judges.
    C. A mass importation of Muslims and Africans to crush the White man deplorable and feed the rage of Hillary! and her soy-boy cadre and angry Ashley Judd types with pussy hats.

    Trump is a straight White man who appeals to straight White men — thus he’s toast. The Steinle verdict is indicative of the way people think and behave.

    • Replies: @El Dato
    oligarchs like Bezos and Gates and Zuck

    If you can name them, they are least important.
    , @BenKenobi
    "If we are marked to die, we are enough to do our country loss. But if to live -- the fewer men, the greater share of honour! God's will I pray thee wish not one man more! Brother, proclaim it through my host: that he who hath no stomach to this fight, let him depart. His passport shall be made and crowns for convoy put into his purse. We shall not have that man's company, that fears his fellowship to die with us."
  39. Who is “they”. The House, the Senate?

    Both in the context of an impeachment. Which will be coming if the 2018 elections give the House back to the Democrats, and if Trump’s popularity slides badly enough that enough cucks in the GOP don’t fear him anymore.

    Special prosecutor can’t do shit against Trump.

    Don’t think so? He can pick off former and maybe current campaign and Administration figures. He can make everyone else in the Administration scared and disloyal. He can prepare the impeachment case for the House and Senate, or maybe just roll the Constitutional dice and seek an indictment against Trump himself. Do you really think Mueller and his deputies gave up at least 2-3 years of their professional lives when they could be earning six or low seven figures in private practice only to be the ones who didn’t take down a President? The liberal third of the country that’s convinced in their bones that Trump is a Russian puppet will also be convinced that anyone who was part of this office has to be incompetent if they don’t validate that shibboleth. Try getting a top-flight job with that following you.

    Let Mueller bite at Trump’s ankles by nailing this or that flunky, who cares.

    Well at least one of those flunkies now who had regular, direct contact with Trump during a period said flunky is now accused of lying to the FBI is now talking. What do you suppose he might be saying? Would you be surprised if it’s something like “the President told me to leave out these details during my interview with the FBI”? I’m not sure it would surprise me.

    What brought Nixon down was his own willful resignation. Sure, the House would have impeached, but would the Senate have convicted? Who knows. I can tell you this, though, if a Republican controlled House impeaches, or a Republican controlled Senate convicts, or if even House or Senate Republicans don’t fight vigorously to defend Trump (making conviction impossible) then they can kiss their , cucked, STUPID-ass party goodbye.

    They have been known as the “stupid party” for a long time. In any case, an impeachment trial will kill whatever might be left of the Trump agenda.

  40. @anonymous

    Under ordinary conditions, we would be calling on Trump to resign.
     
    How can you even think this? The supposed nefarious act Trump committed was colluding with the Russians during his presidential campaign to apparently steal and disseminate DNC emails, Hillary emails, spread false news about HRC, etc.

    So far the Manafort charges relate to things that happened prior to his involvement with Trump.

    The Flynn guilty plea involves meeting with the Russians AFTER the election. And until I hear the nature of the "lie" I will withhold judgment on Flynn. It might be a case of saying something to an FBI agent and then saying something slightly different at a later date to another agent. His mistake was speaking to them without his lawyer and without recording what he said.

    The Kushner connection appears to be getting Flynn to meet the Russians and other members of the security council on behalf of Israel AFTER the election too.

    In other words nothing brought forth so far supports the thesis that Trump colluded with the Russians during the campaign to steal the election.

    And now comes news that team Trump is claiming that the Obama administration actually green lighted Flynn's meeting with the Russian ambassador in December. If true that would be a huge boomerang. Recall Trump tweeting earlier this year about being wiretapped and everyone mocked his claim. Later it turned out to be mostly accurate. So my guess is this claim about Flynn being authorized to meet with the Russians by the previous admin might have a kernel of truth too.

    Flynn received payments from at least two foreign governments. Compare it to Iran-Contra and Whitewater. Or compare it to Eric Holder deciding to have the ATF arm the Mexican cartels.

    Flynn isn’t being convicted for “lying to the FBI”, he’s being convicted for his influence peddling. In return he will flip and testify against Manafort, I would still be surprised to see Kushner indicted.

    When you are on the right-wing, you are held to the highest standards, and your complaints will not be taken seriously. We have to adapt to these circumstances, and insist on ethics purity.

    The other side learned the lessons of Weimar, we didn’t.

    • Replies: @27 year old

    When you are on the right-wing, you are held to the highest standards, and your complaints will not be taken seriously. We have to adapt to these circumstances, and insist on ethics purity.

    The other side learned the lessons of Weimar, we didn’t.
     
    From the makers of optics cucking, we now present: ethics cucking!

    Perfect ethics is not a defense against people who hate you just for existing.

    The lesson of Weimar is that if you win you get to genocide your enemies and if you lose you get genocided.

    Our enemies start with with the assumption that we and Trump are unethical people because of our positions, regardless of anything he/we actually do. They can and will fabricate whatever pretext they think will work in order to eliminate him/us. Innocence of the charge is never going to be a defense.

    How is this not obvious?
    , @anonymous

    When you are on the right-wing, you are held to the highest standards, and your complaints will not be taken seriously. We have to adapt to these circumstances, and insist on ethics purity.
     
    Don't take this the wrong way, I just call 'em as I see 'em. But I don't want to be anywhere near you in a foxhole, or any other situation where I have to rely on you to cover my back. You have the same defeatist attitude of the GOP since the days of 'Minority Leader' Bob Michel.
  41. It’s all Sessions’ fault. He “recuses” himself for absolutely no reason and doesn’t even consult with Trump before doing so. He opened a breach and let the enemy directly inside. Now Dorkemada and his Clownquisition are just going to pick the whole administration off one by one. Sessions doesn’t even have the guts to go after Clinton. Just useless.

    I almost think he’s in on it. Someone got to him and bribed him– that or he’s being blackmailed.

    • Replies: @reiner Tor

    Someone got to him and bribed him– that or he’s being blackmailed.
     
    I think it’s the latter. Or just simple weakness.
    , @Sam
    No it's all Trump's fault. Had he fired Comey after taking office it would have been hard for people to do much. Almost certainly it wouldn't have produced an investigation. Trump did it erratically, perhaps under guidance from Kushner, at a very bad time optically speaking. He makes it easy for his enemies.

    After the suspicion started taking heat he should have waited for a calculated time. Perhaps drumming up a fireable event in order to fire him. Additionally, it was a completely uncoordinated event where people in the administration gave conflicting reasons. As with most things this is mostly due to Trump's servere incompetence.
    , @Anon
    Sessions was just outclassed by his opponents, and he used bad judgment. He honestly thought this was be a short investigation that would clear the air, and that's it. If you've seen the way he's running the Justice Department, he's a traditionalist law guy who can't see beyond the end of his nose, and he doesn't have the imagination to game out scenarios to see if they might turn out disastrously.

    In short, he was a bad pick for these times. The enemy is outsmarting him. The enemy is a lot more evil than Sessions can comprehend, and he's been left stupid and blinking in surprise in the face of their attacks.
  42. @Thomas
    Well the “jury” in this case will be Congress in an impeachment. And they won’t phrase it that way. More that “President Trump, in an effort to impede the investigation into his National Security Advisor’s criminal conduct and the counterintelligence investigation into his ties with Russia, fired the director of the FBI without cause.”

    But yeah, in the world bureaucrats live in, Comey deserved his job, or at least not to be tossed out of it on his ass in a needlessly humiliating way. Trump can thank that real move of administrative genius in part for the predicament he’s now in.

    Comey once condemned the FBI as “too white”, he was illegally leaking secret documents. The firing was an error, but it was warranted. Comey is an arrogant prick.

    • Agree: jimbojones
    • Replies: @utu
    'But justice roll down like waters and righteousness like an ever-flowing stream': Gloating James Comey tweets scripture and river photo as Flynn pleads guilty

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5137821/James-Comey-tweets-scripture-Flynn-pleads-guilty.html#ixzz505kHslbm
    , @Thomas

    Comey once condemned the FBI as “too white”, he was illegally leaking secret documents. The firing was an error, but it was warranted. Comey is an arrogant prick.
     
    Do you expect me to disagree with you? Comey was a typical middling lawyer and bureaucrat but such people cling tightly to their hard-earned petty perquisites, such as not being summarily and publicly fired while they're on a junket 3,000 miles away. That was a needlessly vicious and humiliating thing to do. And, as is now obvious, it was also a really stupid thing to do, since Comey had a ready-made means of revenge waiting, one that continues to pay off every time his friend and former mentor Mueller twists the thumbscrews a little tighter.
  43. @Thomas
    My prediction is that they are going to go after Trump for obstruction of justice, possibly for the Comey firing and previous efforts to get him to let Flynn off the hook, possibly also because he encouraged Flynn or others to lie to or conceal things from the FBI. There’s a track record of these particular prosecutors going that way, it’s something Trump would’ve blundered into in the same way he was ginning up rationales for the Comey firing and cover stories for Don Jr.’s meeting with the Russian lawyer, and it’s one charge that brought Nixon down.

    Yes, and none of it having anything to do with the Russians hacking the election, which is what the investigation is supposed to be about.

    They need to change the way they assign these special counsels so that investigations stay within scope. It’s not just a problem with Trump but with any and all investigations. This whole thing is a massive waste of time and resources. Just think of all the news-writing and news-reading hours spent by the US people on, basically, some financial shenanigans of Manafort and Flynn. Disgusting.

  44. Guys, impeachment is unthinkable while the Republicans control the Congress. And if the Democrats ever retake the Congress, frothing at the mouth as they are, they would be willing to impeach Trump for just breathing.

    The Mueller “investigation” is a fishing expedition / witch-hunt blatant enough to make the most zealous partisan blush. Team Trump should fight Mueller with tooth and nail, not just sit there hoping it would all go away.

    • Replies: @27 year old

    The Mueller “investigation” is a fishing expedition / witch-hunt blatant enough to make the most zealous partisan blush. Team Trump should fight Mueller with tooth and nail, not just sit there hoping it would all go away.
     
    Exactly. There is no natural stopping point for this except Trump out of office. Trump needs to end it. If it allowed to continue indefinitely, it will, and they will continue to "take down" every random person they can. It's absurd that the duly elected president is supposed to allow his political opponents to run an entirely taxpayer funded operation to take him down. Because of "obstruction of justice", this thing can literally cycle infinitely. They can keep investigating people and then charge them for obstructing the investigation.

    Trump needs to pardon Flynn and that random nobody guy and anyone else Mueller has, except Manafort. Then personally throw Mueller out of marine one.

    Trump's only other option is to ruthlessly and publicly implement the MAGA platform by executive order under the guise of national security or emergency or whatever it takes. Become such a hero that he's untouchable.

    Trump thinks that he's been maliciously investigated before and he's smart and has good lawyers and it was no big deal, and he hasn't done what they accuse in this case so it should be no big deal again. But this will never go away on its own.
  45. @Maj. Kong
    Comey once condemned the FBI as "too white", he was illegally leaking secret documents. The firing was an error, but it was warranted. Comey is an arrogant prick.

    ‘But justice roll down like waters and righteousness like an ever-flowing stream’: Gloating James Comey tweets scripture and river photo as Flynn pleads guilty

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5137821/James-Comey-tweets-scripture-Flynn-pleads-guilty.html#ixzz505kHslbm

  46. @eah
    https://twitter.com/JulianAssange/status/936718987282604032

    Why Is There No “Saudi-Gate”?

    Why is the US run from the Middle East?

  47. @Patriot
    OK, do I have this right: Jewish leader of Jewish Isreal has Trump's Jewish son in law use USA power to stop UN condemnation of evil things that Jewish Israel is doing.

    If I was a crazy racist hater, that might make me think that Jews can control the US government.

    You ARE crazy.

    By definition, Jews don’t control anything.

  48. @Maj. Kong
    Comey once condemned the FBI as "too white", he was illegally leaking secret documents. The firing was an error, but it was warranted. Comey is an arrogant prick.

    Comey once condemned the FBI as “too white”, he was illegally leaking secret documents. The firing was an error, but it was warranted. Comey is an arrogant prick.

    Do you expect me to disagree with you? Comey was a typical middling lawyer and bureaucrat but such people cling tightly to their hard-earned petty perquisites, such as not being summarily and publicly fired while they’re on a junket 3,000 miles away. That was a needlessly vicious and humiliating thing to do. And, as is now obvious, it was also a really stupid thing to do, since Comey had a ready-made means of revenge waiting, one that continues to pay off every time his friend and former mentor Mueller twists the thumbscrews a little tighter.

  49. @Cagey Beast
    Flynn's name suddenly disappeared from Twitter's list of top trending topics. That seems to have happened soon after this story from The Hill came out saying:


    The White House said on Friday that it was the Obama administration that authorized former national security adviser Michael Flynn's contacts with Russian Ambassador Sergey Kislyak during President Trump's transition, according to CNN.
     
    http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/362856-cnn-white-house-claims-obama-admin-approved-flynn-calls-with-russian

    It was a bright cold day in April, and the clocks were striking thirteen. Winston Smith, his chin nuzzled into his breast in an effort to escape the vile wind, slipped quickly through the glass doors of Victory Mansions, though not quickly enough to prevent a swirl of gritty dust from entering along with him.

    The hallway smelt of greasy fries and old rag mats. At one end of it a coloured poster, too large for indoor display, had been tacked to the wall. It depicted simply an enormous face, more than a metre wide: the face of some anonymous TV presenter of about forty-five, with a enormous fake grin and wide eyes indicating the use of narcotics. Winston made for the stairs. It was no use trying the lift. Even at the best of times it was seldom working, and at present the electric current was cut off during daylight hours. It was part of the economy drive in preparation for Hate Week. The flat was seven flights up, and Winston, who was thirty-nine and had a varicose ulcer above his right ankle, went slowly, resting several times on the way. On each landing, opposite the lift-shaft, the poster with the enormous face gazed from the wall. It was one of those pictures which are so contrived that the eyes follow you about when you move. BIG BROTHER IS A CLOWN, the caption beneath it ran.

  50. @Thomas
    Well the “jury” in this case will be Congress in an impeachment. And they won’t phrase it that way. More that “President Trump, in an effort to impede the investigation into his National Security Advisor’s criminal conduct and the counterintelligence investigation into his ties with Russia, fired the director of the FBI without cause.”

    But yeah, in the world bureaucrats live in, Comey deserved his job, or at least not to be tossed out of it on his ass in a needlessly humiliating way. Trump can thank that real move of administrative genius in part for the predicament he’s now in.

    I was being flip with the jury thing.

    You honestly think the House would impeach Trump for dismissing Comey without cause? Here’s a news flash: presidents don’t need cause. We’re not going through the Andy Johnson thing again.

    But even if Trump needed cause, representatives would be laughed out of office for picking Comey over their own president.

    If it was an effort to impede investigation, good luck proving it. I know the House doesn’t need to prove anything, but they’d be way out in Speculation Land. Without an oar, too, because Trump waited until he had plausible cause.

    And I don’t get what you mean by thrown out on his ass in a needlessly humiliating way. What, he didn’t do the honorable Washington thing and let him resign? Pfft. That would’ve been the same media circus no matter how Comey was fired.

    • Replies: @Thomas

    You honestly think the House would impeach Trump for dismissing Comey without cause? Here’s a news flash: presidents don’t need cause. We’re not going through the Andy Johnson thing again.
     
    The President may be able to dismiss without cause but if the theory that the President can be impeached for obstructing justice holds, then there may be some causes for which the President may not be able to dismiss some officials.

    From the first article of impeachment against Nixon passed by the a House Judiciary Committee (the sole precedent we have on point):

    4. interfering or endeavouring to interfere with the conduct of investigations by the Department of Justice of the United States, the Federal Bureau of Investigation, the office of Watergate Special Prosecution Force, and Congressional Committees
     
    We never got as far as a trial in Nixon’s case, but that article would certainly seem to include the Saturday Night Massacre.

    But even if Trump needed cause, representatives would be laughed out of office for picking Comey over their own president.
     
    I take it you’re assuming the Republicans will still have a majority of the House come 2019. Knock on wood.

    If it was an effort to impede investigation, good luck proving it. I know the House doesn’t need to prove anything, but they’d be way out in Speculation Land. Without an oar, too, because Trump waited until he had plausible cause.
     
    And then he promptly blew up that cause a day later. To the Russian Foreign Minister in the Oval Office! Mueller has a copy of the first pages-long draft (described as a “rant”) of Trump’s dismissal letter, which may make for interesting reading. You tie in Trump’s previous pressure on Comey about Flynn and Russia, Flynn’s later guilty plea and God-only-knows what he’ll testify to, Trump’s own statements on the matter, what you’re left with isn’t a plausible cause, it’s a patently pretextual one.

    And I don’t get what you mean by thrown out on his ass in a needlessly humiliating way. What, he didn’t do the honorable Washington thing and let him resign? Pfft. That would’ve been the same media circus no matter how Comey was fired.
     
    I meant just what I said. Doing the “honorable Washington thing” might not have prompted Comey to play secret squirrel with his memos. It certainly wouldn’t have caught quite the unwelcome notice of a lot of people in the permanent bureaucracy who, as I mentioned, take those kinds of slights seriously. Inveigling Rosenstein into it almost certainly wouldn’t have prompted him to say “Hell with it, I’m out,” and to hand off the whole thing to Mueller with a dangerously broad mandate.

    Or maybe it would have done all those things, but whatever Trump was seeking to accomplish by defenestrating Comey, I would say it failed, which is why I called it needless, and more than likely it blew up badly in his face.
  51. Robert Mueller : Donald Trump :: Ted Wells : Tom Brady

    I’ve also come to realize over the last few years that ‘news’ journalists are no more erudite or ethical than sportswriters.

  52. @Patriot
    OK, do I have this right: Jewish leader of Jewish Isreal has Trump's Jewish son in law use USA power to stop UN condemnation of evil things that Jewish Israel is doing.

    If I was a crazy racist hater, that might make me think that Jews can control the US government.

    Wow, you sound just like a Nazi! Like all people with a common sense.

  53. @guest
    I was being flip with the jury thing.

    You honestly think the House would impeach Trump for dismissing Comey without cause? Here's a news flash: presidents don't need cause. We're not going through the Andy Johnson thing again.

    But even if Trump needed cause, representatives would be laughed out of office for picking Comey over their own president.

    If it was an effort to impede investigation, good luck proving it. I know the House doesn't need to prove anything, but they'd be way out in Speculation Land. Without an oar, too, because Trump waited until he had plausible cause.

    And I don't get what you mean by thrown out on his ass in a needlessly humiliating way. What, he didn't do the honorable Washington thing and let him resign? Pfft. That would've been the same media circus no matter how Comey was fired.

    You honestly think the House would impeach Trump for dismissing Comey without cause? Here’s a news flash: presidents don’t need cause. We’re not going through the Andy Johnson thing again.

    The President may be able to dismiss without cause but if the theory that the President can be impeached for obstructing justice holds, then there may be some causes for which the President may not be able to dismiss some officials.

    From the first article of impeachment against Nixon passed by the a House Judiciary Committee (the sole precedent we have on point):

    4. interfering or endeavouring to interfere with the conduct of investigations by the Department of Justice of the United States, the Federal Bureau of Investigation, the office of Watergate Special Prosecution Force, and Congressional Committees

    We never got as far as a trial in Nixon’s case, but that article would certainly seem to include the Saturday Night Massacre.

    But even if Trump needed cause, representatives would be laughed out of office for picking Comey over their own president.

    I take it you’re assuming the Republicans will still have a majority of the House come 2019. Knock on wood.

    If it was an effort to impede investigation, good luck proving it. I know the House doesn’t need to prove anything, but they’d be way out in Speculation Land. Without an oar, too, because Trump waited until he had plausible cause.

    And then he promptly blew up that cause a day later. To the Russian Foreign Minister in the Oval Office! Mueller has a copy of the first pages-long draft (described as a “rant”) of Trump’s dismissal letter, which may make for interesting reading. You tie in Trump’s previous pressure on Comey about Flynn and Russia, Flynn’s later guilty plea and God-only-knows what he’ll testify to, Trump’s own statements on the matter, what you’re left with isn’t a plausible cause, it’s a patently pretextual one.

    And I don’t get what you mean by thrown out on his ass in a needlessly humiliating way. What, he didn’t do the honorable Washington thing and let him resign? Pfft. That would’ve been the same media circus no matter how Comey was fired.

    I meant just what I said. Doing the “honorable Washington thing” might not have prompted Comey to play secret squirrel with his memos. It certainly wouldn’t have caught quite the unwelcome notice of a lot of people in the permanent bureaucracy who, as I mentioned, take those kinds of slights seriously. Inveigling Rosenstein into it almost certainly wouldn’t have prompted him to say “Hell with it, I’m out,” and to hand off the whole thing to Mueller with a dangerously broad mandate.

    Or maybe it would have done all those things, but whatever Trump was seeking to accomplish by defenestrating Comey, I would say it failed, which is why I called it needless, and more than likely it blew up badly in his face.

    • Agree: Kevin C.
  54. These deplorable tears are delicious!

    Face it. It’s over. The racist in chief is about to get kicked to the curb

    • Replies: @fish

    Oh Tinys.....you bein adorbs wen you be thinkin you be getin yo way!

    Ohs Tinys.....


    - Lender “ teh voic ob reeezun” pittzszs
     
  55. @Daniel H
    >>My prediction is that they are going to go after Trump for obstruction of justice, possibly for the Comey firing and previous efforts to get him to let Flynn off the hook, possibly also because he encouraged Flynn or others to lie to or conceal things from the FBI.

    Who is "they". The House, the Senate? Special prosecutor can't do shit against Trump. Let Mueller bite at Trump's ankles by nailing this or that flunky, who cares.

    Trump had every right to fire Comey, with or without cause.

    >>and it’s one charge that brought Nixon down.

    What brought Nixon down was his own willful resignation. Sure, the House would have impeached, but would the Senate have convicted? Who knows. I can tell you this, though, if a Republican controlled House impeaches, or a Republican controlled Senate convicts, or if even House or Senate Republicans don't fight vigorously to defend Trump (making conviction impossible) then they can kiss their , cucked, STUPID-ass party goodbye.

    What brought Nixon down was his own willful resignation. Sure, the House would have impeached, but would the Senate have convicted?

    According to Barry Goldwater, yes. He recounts going to the White House with another GOP senator and informing Nixon that he could count on twelve, tops thirteen votes in the Senate.

  56. @Amasius
    It's all Sessions' fault. He "recuses" himself for absolutely no reason and doesn't even consult with Trump before doing so. He opened a breach and let the enemy directly inside. Now Dorkemada and his Clownquisition are just going to pick the whole administration off one by one. Sessions doesn't even have the guts to go after Clinton. Just useless.

    I almost think he's in on it. Someone got to him and bribed him-- that or he's being blackmailed.

    Someone got to him and bribed him– that or he’s being blackmailed.

    I think it’s the latter. Or just simple weakness.

  57. I’ve always said it makes a lot more sense to substitute in Israel for Russia when talking about these things. So Israeli agent Kushner contacts a variety of nations to have them block a UN censure of Israeli settlement building, one of the nations happens to be Russia, which largely ignores the request. Kushner is the next target so it will be interesting what happens now, it looks like he did lie to the FBI, although am not sure if what he did for Israel is illegal, no matter how much I object to it. The one useful thing Mueller could do is get Trump to dump Jared and Ivanka.

    This was always a fishing expedition, the only crimes were going to be process crimes, like Martha Stewart. Essentially the deeply corrupt and conflicted Rosenstein sets up a special counsel to investigate a crime which doesn’t exist, namely collusion, on the basis of non existent evidence. He appoints the deeply conflicted and corrupt Mueller, a move engineered by the recently fired and deeply corrupt and conflicted Comey. Cheered on a deeply corrupt and conflicted media and DC. It really is farcical from start to finish, looks like Mueller’s investigation is coming to end with Trump exonerated. Whether the real guilty parties will ever prosecuted for illegal spying, corruption etc. I have no idea. Could a fair and balanced jury convict whoever Mueller manages to entrap, is he too conflicted? I am not lawyer and don’t know how the US Constitution works, but that doesn’t seem to particularly matter here anyway.

  58. @jimbojones
    Guys, impeachment is unthinkable while the Republicans control the Congress. And if the Democrats ever retake the Congress, frothing at the mouth as they are, they would be willing to impeach Trump for just breathing.

    The Mueller "investigation" is a fishing expedition / witch-hunt blatant enough to make the most zealous partisan blush. Team Trump should fight Mueller with tooth and nail, not just sit there hoping it would all go away.

    The Mueller “investigation” is a fishing expedition / witch-hunt blatant enough to make the most zealous partisan blush. Team Trump should fight Mueller with tooth and nail, not just sit there hoping it would all go away.

    Exactly. There is no natural stopping point for this except Trump out of office. Trump needs to end it. If it allowed to continue indefinitely, it will, and they will continue to “take down” every random person they can. It’s absurd that the duly elected president is supposed to allow his political opponents to run an entirely taxpayer funded operation to take him down. Because of “obstruction of justice”, this thing can literally cycle infinitely. They can keep investigating people and then charge them for obstructing the investigation.

    Trump needs to pardon Flynn and that random nobody guy and anyone else Mueller has, except Manafort. Then personally throw Mueller out of marine one.

    Trump’s only other option is to ruthlessly and publicly implement the MAGA platform by executive order under the guise of national security or emergency or whatever it takes. Become such a hero that he’s untouchable.

    Trump thinks that he’s been maliciously investigated before and he’s smart and has good lawyers and it was no big deal, and he hasn’t done what they accuse in this case so it should be no big deal again. But this will never go away on its own.

    • Agree: ben tillman
    • Replies: @utu
    Trump’s only other option...

    But he will never do it.
  59. @Maj. Kong
    Flynn received payments from at least two foreign governments. Compare it to Iran-Contra and Whitewater. Or compare it to Eric Holder deciding to have the ATF arm the Mexican cartels.

    Flynn isn't being convicted for "lying to the FBI", he's being convicted for his influence peddling. In return he will flip and testify against Manafort, I would still be surprised to see Kushner indicted.

    When you are on the right-wing, you are held to the highest standards, and your complaints will not be taken seriously. We have to adapt to these circumstances, and insist on ethics purity.

    The other side learned the lessons of Weimar, we didn't.

    When you are on the right-wing, you are held to the highest standards, and your complaints will not be taken seriously. We have to adapt to these circumstances, and insist on ethics purity.

    The other side learned the lessons of Weimar, we didn’t.

    From the makers of optics cucking, we now present: ethics cucking!

    Perfect ethics is not a defense against people who hate you just for existing.

    The lesson of Weimar is that if you win you get to genocide your enemies and if you lose you get genocided.

    Our enemies start with with the assumption that we and Trump are unethical people because of our positions, regardless of anything he/we actually do. They can and will fabricate whatever pretext they think will work in order to eliminate him/us. Innocence of the charge is never going to be a defense.

    How is this not obvious?

  60. This is now a year-old nothingburger:

    What the Flynn Plea Means

    It is becoming increasingly palpable that, whatever “collusion” means, there was no actionable, conspiratorial complicity by the Trump campaign in the Kremlin’s machinations.

  61. @Patriot
    OK, do I have this right: Jewish leader of Jewish Isreal has Trump's Jewish son in law use USA power to stop UN condemnation of evil things that Jewish Israel is doing.

    If I was a crazy racist hater, that might make me think that Jews can control the US government.

    yeah if anything its about jews interfering in US policy, dog bites man

  62. @Amasius
    It's all Sessions' fault. He "recuses" himself for absolutely no reason and doesn't even consult with Trump before doing so. He opened a breach and let the enemy directly inside. Now Dorkemada and his Clownquisition are just going to pick the whole administration off one by one. Sessions doesn't even have the guts to go after Clinton. Just useless.

    I almost think he's in on it. Someone got to him and bribed him-- that or he's being blackmailed.

    No it’s all Trump’s fault. Had he fired Comey after taking office it would have been hard for people to do much. Almost certainly it wouldn’t have produced an investigation. Trump did it erratically, perhaps under guidance from Kushner, at a very bad time optically speaking. He makes it easy for his enemies.

    After the suspicion started taking heat he should have waited for a calculated time. Perhaps drumming up a fireable event in order to fire him. Additionally, it was a completely uncoordinated event where people in the administration gave conflicting reasons. As with most things this is mostly due to Trump’s servere incompetence.

  63. @Whiskey
    Trump is doomed, and was doomed from the start. He only won the Presidency because ordinary people voted for him. What really matters is the hereditary rulers of the nation, the bureaucracy, oligarchs like Bezos and Gates and Zuck, non-Whites who occupy the nobility class, and the clergy: mediatainment and university people loathe Trump like they do his voters.

    They have not and will not accept Trump nor limits on Open Borders, anti-White hatred, and endless but fruitless secret wars we always lose. This is not something they will accept since it violates their sacred PC Civic Religion. It is an article of faith and piety, not to mention aristocratic standing. Impeachment and removal are POLITICAL judgments, not legal ones. This is why Hillary is hanging around.

    There's the giant patronage machine she built at stake, her plan is to have Chuck Schemer and Nancy Palsy lead impeachment, with Cuck Ryan and Mitch McTurtle also in the vanguard, convicting both Trump and Pence and installing ... Hillary! Who will then wage the War on White Men with a vengeance. President for Life Hillary! will not tolerate you deplorable White men. No way! That's why the Purge has begun, to make way for the New America Hillary! has planned:

    A. Second Class Legal status formalized for all White men.
    B. Special privileges for non-Whites, lesbians and gays enshrined as a matter of law by various Judges.
    C. A mass importation of Muslims and Africans to crush the White man deplorable and feed the rage of Hillary! and her soy-boy cadre and angry Ashley Judd types with pussy hats.

    Trump is a straight White man who appeals to straight White men -- thus he's toast. The Steinle verdict is indicative of the way people think and behave.

    oligarchs like Bezos and Gates and Zuck

    If you can name them, they are least important.

  64. For those who believe in Trump’s multidimensional chess playing, it’s a discreet move to get rid of Kushner without crossing daddy’s little princess. In any case, neocon Kushner won’t be missed.
    But this sets another bad precedent for international relations : traditional diplomacy has been effectively banned from politics in favor of gunboat diplomacy.

  65. @anonymous

    Under ordinary conditions, we would be calling on Trump to resign.
     
    How can you even think this? The supposed nefarious act Trump committed was colluding with the Russians during his presidential campaign to apparently steal and disseminate DNC emails, Hillary emails, spread false news about HRC, etc.

    So far the Manafort charges relate to things that happened prior to his involvement with Trump.

    The Flynn guilty plea involves meeting with the Russians AFTER the election. And until I hear the nature of the "lie" I will withhold judgment on Flynn. It might be a case of saying something to an FBI agent and then saying something slightly different at a later date to another agent. His mistake was speaking to them without his lawyer and without recording what he said.

    The Kushner connection appears to be getting Flynn to meet the Russians and other members of the security council on behalf of Israel AFTER the election too.

    In other words nothing brought forth so far supports the thesis that Trump colluded with the Russians during the campaign to steal the election.

    And now comes news that team Trump is claiming that the Obama administration actually green lighted Flynn's meeting with the Russian ambassador in December. If true that would be a huge boomerang. Recall Trump tweeting earlier this year about being wiretapped and everyone mocked his claim. Later it turned out to be mostly accurate. So my guess is this claim about Flynn being authorized to meet with the Russians by the previous admin might have a kernel of truth too.

    His mistake was speaking to them without his lawyer and without recording what he said.

    Cops don’t prevent or solve crimes and round up criminals much any more. They entrap and inveigle the innocent and unwary. Sam Francis explained it all better than I could long ago when he coined the term anarcho-tyranny. The only things one should say to police include “Do you have a warrant?,” “I decline to speak to you,” and “Get off my property,” – that kind of thing.

  66. Mueller is going very, very slowly to gauge what the country wants. The president isn’t going to be ousted on Flynn’s word and Mueller can’t flip Kushner, especially as the contact with Russia was by was by way of helping Israel.

  67. @Tiny Duck
    These deplorable tears are delicious!

    Face it. It's over. The racist in chief is about to get kicked to the curb

    Oh Tinys…..you bein adorbs wen you be thinkin you be getin yo way!

    Ohs Tinys…..

    – Lender “ teh voic ob reeezun” pittzszs

  68. anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Maj. Kong
    Flynn received payments from at least two foreign governments. Compare it to Iran-Contra and Whitewater. Or compare it to Eric Holder deciding to have the ATF arm the Mexican cartels.

    Flynn isn't being convicted for "lying to the FBI", he's being convicted for his influence peddling. In return he will flip and testify against Manafort, I would still be surprised to see Kushner indicted.

    When you are on the right-wing, you are held to the highest standards, and your complaints will not be taken seriously. We have to adapt to these circumstances, and insist on ethics purity.

    The other side learned the lessons of Weimar, we didn't.

    When you are on the right-wing, you are held to the highest standards, and your complaints will not be taken seriously. We have to adapt to these circumstances, and insist on ethics purity.

    Don’t take this the wrong way, I just call ’em as I see ’em. But I don’t want to be anywhere near you in a foxhole, or any other situation where I have to rely on you to cover my back. You have the same defeatist attitude of the GOP since the days of ‘Minority Leader’ Bob Michel.

  69. @Cagey Beast
    Even if it's not Flynn's conviction that sets in motion the impeachment of Trump, the Democrats and the rest of the DC establishment will find something else to throw at him. They will not stop, no matter how weak their case is.

    Even if it’s not Flynn’s conviction that sets in motion the impeachment of Trump, the Democrats and the rest of the DC establishment will find something else to throw at him.

    I don’t see how Flynn’s non-“conviction” is relevant to anything.

    • Replies: @Cagey Beast
    That's a double or triple negative. I don't understand what you're asserting or refuting.
  70. @ben tillman

    Even if it’s not Flynn’s conviction that sets in motion the impeachment of Trump, the Democrats and the rest of the DC establishment will find something else to throw at him.
     
    I don't see how Flynn's non-"conviction" is relevant to anything.

    That’s a double or triple negative. I don’t understand what you’re asserting or refuting.

    • Replies: @ben tillman
    1. He wasn't convicted.
    2. If he had been convicted, I don't see any relevance to impeachment issues.
  71. @Maj. Kong
    The administration has played fast and loose with ethics. Flynn was apparently paid to ensure the kidnapping and extradition of Gulen to Turkey. Flynn was "selling access". Trump has attempted to sell access with his golf properties and mar-a-lago.

    Impeachment is not a criminal trial, it is a process similar to a "vote of confidence" in parliamentary systems, it just requires two-thirds for removal, rather than a majority.

    Impeachment is not a criminal trial, it is a process similar to a “vote of confidence” in parliamentary systems, it just requires two-thirds for removal, rather than a majority.

    Just?

  72. Anon • Disclaimer says:
    @Amasius
    It's all Sessions' fault. He "recuses" himself for absolutely no reason and doesn't even consult with Trump before doing so. He opened a breach and let the enemy directly inside. Now Dorkemada and his Clownquisition are just going to pick the whole administration off one by one. Sessions doesn't even have the guts to go after Clinton. Just useless.

    I almost think he's in on it. Someone got to him and bribed him-- that or he's being blackmailed.

    Sessions was just outclassed by his opponents, and he used bad judgment. He honestly thought this was be a short investigation that would clear the air, and that’s it. If you’ve seen the way he’s running the Justice Department, he’s a traditionalist law guy who can’t see beyond the end of his nose, and he doesn’t have the imagination to game out scenarios to see if they might turn out disastrously.

    In short, he was a bad pick for these times. The enemy is outsmarting him. The enemy is a lot more evil than Sessions can comprehend, and he’s been left stupid and blinking in surprise in the face of their attacks.

    • Agree: BB753, utu
    • Replies: @lavoisier
    "In short, he was a bad pick for these times. The enemy is outsmarting him. The enemy is a lot more evil than Sessions can comprehend, and he’s been left stupid and blinking in surprise in the face of their attacks."

    You are absolutely right. The left knows no rules, no justice, no sense of right or wrong. They will do anything, and I mean anything, to win.

    They are true sociopaths and cannot be dealt with in a reasonable manner.

    Once one is aware of this fact, one can respond appropriately.

    It is like fighting according to the rules of the Marquess of Queensberry while your opponent has a gun and a knife.

    The left are nihilistic monsters. And like all monsters, they have to be defeated or they will destroy everything of any value and everyone of any value.

  73. @27 year old

    The Mueller “investigation” is a fishing expedition / witch-hunt blatant enough to make the most zealous partisan blush. Team Trump should fight Mueller with tooth and nail, not just sit there hoping it would all go away.
     
    Exactly. There is no natural stopping point for this except Trump out of office. Trump needs to end it. If it allowed to continue indefinitely, it will, and they will continue to "take down" every random person they can. It's absurd that the duly elected president is supposed to allow his political opponents to run an entirely taxpayer funded operation to take him down. Because of "obstruction of justice", this thing can literally cycle infinitely. They can keep investigating people and then charge them for obstructing the investigation.

    Trump needs to pardon Flynn and that random nobody guy and anyone else Mueller has, except Manafort. Then personally throw Mueller out of marine one.

    Trump's only other option is to ruthlessly and publicly implement the MAGA platform by executive order under the guise of national security or emergency or whatever it takes. Become such a hero that he's untouchable.

    Trump thinks that he's been maliciously investigated before and he's smart and has good lawyers and it was no big deal, and he hasn't done what they accuse in this case so it should be no big deal again. But this will never go away on its own.

    Trump’s only other option…

    But he will never do it.

  74. @Whiskey
    Trump is doomed, and was doomed from the start. He only won the Presidency because ordinary people voted for him. What really matters is the hereditary rulers of the nation, the bureaucracy, oligarchs like Bezos and Gates and Zuck, non-Whites who occupy the nobility class, and the clergy: mediatainment and university people loathe Trump like they do his voters.

    They have not and will not accept Trump nor limits on Open Borders, anti-White hatred, and endless but fruitless secret wars we always lose. This is not something they will accept since it violates their sacred PC Civic Religion. It is an article of faith and piety, not to mention aristocratic standing. Impeachment and removal are POLITICAL judgments, not legal ones. This is why Hillary is hanging around.

    There's the giant patronage machine she built at stake, her plan is to have Chuck Schemer and Nancy Palsy lead impeachment, with Cuck Ryan and Mitch McTurtle also in the vanguard, convicting both Trump and Pence and installing ... Hillary! Who will then wage the War on White Men with a vengeance. President for Life Hillary! will not tolerate you deplorable White men. No way! That's why the Purge has begun, to make way for the New America Hillary! has planned:

    A. Second Class Legal status formalized for all White men.
    B. Special privileges for non-Whites, lesbians and gays enshrined as a matter of law by various Judges.
    C. A mass importation of Muslims and Africans to crush the White man deplorable and feed the rage of Hillary! and her soy-boy cadre and angry Ashley Judd types with pussy hats.

    Trump is a straight White man who appeals to straight White men -- thus he's toast. The Steinle verdict is indicative of the way people think and behave.

    “If we are marked to die, we are enough to do our country loss. But if to live — the fewer men, the greater share of honour! God’s will I pray thee wish not one man more! Brother, proclaim it through my host: that he who hath no stomach to this fight, let him depart. His passport shall be made and crowns for convoy put into his purse. We shall not have that man’s company, that fears his fellowship to die with us.”

  75. @Anon
    Sessions was just outclassed by his opponents, and he used bad judgment. He honestly thought this was be a short investigation that would clear the air, and that's it. If you've seen the way he's running the Justice Department, he's a traditionalist law guy who can't see beyond the end of his nose, and he doesn't have the imagination to game out scenarios to see if they might turn out disastrously.

    In short, he was a bad pick for these times. The enemy is outsmarting him. The enemy is a lot more evil than Sessions can comprehend, and he's been left stupid and blinking in surprise in the face of their attacks.

    “In short, he was a bad pick for these times. The enemy is outsmarting him. The enemy is a lot more evil than Sessions can comprehend, and he’s been left stupid and blinking in surprise in the face of their attacks.”

    You are absolutely right. The left knows no rules, no justice, no sense of right or wrong. They will do anything, and I mean anything, to win.

    They are true sociopaths and cannot be dealt with in a reasonable manner.

    Once one is aware of this fact, one can respond appropriately.

    It is like fighting according to the rules of the Marquess of Queensberry while your opponent has a gun and a knife.

    The left are nihilistic monsters. And like all monsters, they have to be defeated or they will destroy everything of any value and everyone of any value.

  76. @Cagey Beast
    That's a double or triple negative. I don't understand what you're asserting or refuting.

    1. He wasn’t convicted.
    2. If he had been convicted, I don’t see any relevance to impeachment issues.

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