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From PLOS Genetics:
The time and place of European admixture in Ashkenazi Jewish history
James Xue, Todd Lencz, Ariel Darvasi, Itsik Pe’er, Shai Carmi
Published: April 4, 2017 https://doi.org/10.1371/journal.pgen.1006644
Abstract
The Ashkenazi Jewish (AJ) population is important in genetics due to its high rate of Mendelian disorders. AJ appeared in Europe in the 10th century, and their ancestry is thought to comprise European (EU) and Middle-Eastern (ME) components. However, both the time and place of admixture are subject to debate. Here, we attempt to characterize the AJ admixture history using a careful application of new and existing methods on a large AJ sample. Our main approach was based on local ancestry inference, in which we first classified each AJ genomic segment as EU or ME, and then compared allele frequencies along the EU segments to those of different EU populations. The contribution of each EU source was also estimated using GLOBETROTTER and haplotype sharing. The time of admixture was inferred based on multiple statistics, including ME segment lengths, the total EU ancestry per chromosome, and the correlation of ancestries along the chromosome. The major source of EU ancestry in AJ was found to be Southern Europe (≈60–80% of EU ancestry), with the rest being likely Eastern European. The inferred admixture time was ≈30 generations ago, but multiple lines of evidence suggest that it represents an average over two or more events, pre- and post-dating the founder event experienced by AJ in late medieval times. The time of the pre-bottleneck admixture event, which was likely Southern European, was estimated to ≈25–50 generations ago. …Running RFMix on the AJ genomes with our EU and ME reference panels and summing up the lengths of all tracts assigned to each ancestry, the genome-wide ancestry was ≈53% EU and ≈47% ME
In other words, Ashkenazi Jews are about 53% European and 47% Middle Eastern by ancestry.
… We observed that in simulations of admixed genomes, the Middle-Eastern regional source could have also been recovered by running the same localization pipeline. Applying that pipeline to the AJ genomes, we identified Levant as the most likely ME source: the proportions of chromosomes classified as Levantine was 51.6%, compared to 21.7% and 22.2% classified as Druze and Southern ME, respectively.
… In these simulations, we fixed the Levantine admixture proportion to 50% and varied the proportions of the different European regions. We then used a grid search to find the ancestry proportions that best fit the observed fraction of AJ chromosomes classified as each ancestry. The simulation results (Fig 2) suggest that the European component of the AJ cohort is 34% Southern EU, 8% Western EU, and 8% Eastern EU. This analysis thus suggests that roughly 70% of EU ancestry in AJ is Southern European.
By the way, it would seem like a natural study to dig up some old skeletons from Jerusalem from a couple of thousand years ago and do genome scans on them to see if they are more genetically related to Israeli Jews or to Palestinians. But ancient DNA expert David Reich announced in his recent book “Who We Are and How We Got Here” that he would never apply ancient DNA technology to anything related to Jews.
So there does not appear to be any Caucasian (Khazarian) DNA in AJ’s? Recently contenders of the Khazarian origin theory for the Ashkenazi had become quite vocal again. They were buoyed by the findings of geneticist Eran Elhaik:
http://www.middleeasteye.net/news/most-jews-descended-ancient-turkey-new-study-2107639949
So there does not appear to be much in the way of Caucasian (Khazar) DNA in the Ashkenazi?
Recently contenders of the Khazarian origin theory of the Ashkenazi had become quite vocal again, they were buoyed by the results of geneticist Eran Elhaik:
http://www.middleeasteye.net/news/most-jews-descended-ancient-turkey-new-study-2107639949
In other words, Ashkenazi Jews are about 53% European and 47% Middle Eastern by ancestry.
That matches up with pretty much everyone’s sense of them: familiar but somehow off. A little later we realize how these folks always insist the rest of us are wrong about everything, all the time, forever.
Ashkenazi Jews rock. Nothing makes me happier than the fusion of WASP triumphalism and Ashkenazi tikkun olam. I think something magical and wondrous (and not the least bit Satanic) happens when money-grubbing heretics join with lapsed East European Jews to form a coalition to transform Christendom by force.
Steve,
So David Reich dares not partake of the forbidden fruit.
I read this article twice and have posted links in comments a few times. Seems to be the best article ever on the genetic history of AJs.
“In other words, Ashkenazi Jews are about 53% European and 47% Middle Eastern by ancestry.”
Actually, they post like seven different estimates using about four different models. That is just one of them. Unfortunately they don’t say much about which one is better. However, they explain each one well.
In general, the newer and more complex models tended to show more Euro and less Levantine than the older ones. I think the very first estimate I ever saw years ago in another paper was 55% Levantine and 45% Italian/French.
Given the authors show no preference, it is tempting to just average them. But then some are just Eu/Lev, while the most interesting was Lev/S-Euro/E-Euro/W-Euro. That “Globetrotter” model showed 70% Euro amd 30% ME:
“The inferred ancestry profile for AJ was 5% Western EU, 10% Eastern EU, 30% Levant, and 55% Southern EU.”
They go on to note the large difference from the older 50-50 estimates and say they cannot resolve the problem.
Remember, kids: Scandinavians, the Irish, Spaniards, Russians, Balts, Italians and Scots are genetically and culturally similar enough that they should be thought of as a unitary race who naturally treat each other as members of the in-group. Indeed, according to various luminaries, ranging from Dr. David Duke* to Richard Spencer to Andrew Anglin, Alawite Syrians and Shia Persians should be included in this Aryan in-group.
But Ashkenazic Jews? Pshaw! They’re a totally separate Semitic/Mongoloid/Demonic race that has absolutely nothing in common whatsoever with Aryans, which is why they don’t intermarry with them, because they’re Jewish supremacists who look down on the filthy goyim. (Oh, wait, a supermajority of diaspora Jews do marry the Gentiles that they allegedly look at as a separate and inferior race? Uh…let me get back to you on that….oh ok, Kevin MacDonald reassures me that this is actually part of a devious plot to appear as if they’re not actually practicing a group evolutionary strategy by seeming to not do so. Nice try, Jews!)
To drop the sarcasm for a bit: to be clear, I emphatically think that the best interests of Jews lie in identifying with other peoples of European descent, and perhaps even with East Asians in a global Ice People bloc. And furthermore that, in the absence of criticism, many Jews have adopted foolish notions about their/our history and some have attempted to join the Flight From White. (Rather unsuccessfully it seems, judging by how ardent anti-Zionists are about identifying Ashkenazic Jews as white and Israel as a racist/white supremacist state, and how New York lawyer Aaron Schlossberg was the first person to be the target of this new media phenomenon of Smite the Random White.) But some white nationalists ludicrously exaggerate the differences between Jews and the manifold other European and part-European groups that they casually allow under the whiteness umbrella.
*Obviously, as iSteve favorite Nassim Taleb urges, no one with a humanities Ph.D. (let alone one from the…uh…unorthodox institution Duke studied at), at least in the English-speaking world, should ever refer to himself or be referred to as “doctor.” My use of the title is rather meant to mock Duke’s obnoxious habit of incessantly marketing himself as such.
to see if they are more genetically related to Israeli Jews or to Palestinians.
You might settle on a definition of ‘Palestinian’ before you try that.
Sample sizes in some of these data sets are not very high. It is nice knowing all the estimates on time and place and extent of the admixture events will get more precise in the near future as sequencing costs keep dropping.
Weren’t those numbers also used by Mitt Romney in some fiscal sense?
He’s nuts.
About 60% European was their best guess.
It is indeed a good article. They checked their analyses six ways from Sunday.
A pity – I was hoping they’d pin it down a little further. To Rome or else to Spain. Some used to speculate that the Carthaginian settlements in Spain were Jewish or else became Jewish.
I guess (although with no knowledge or never reading in this topic), descendants of Khazars are different, much smaller Turkic-language Jewish nationalities that still exist in the region.
Krymchaks are surely very likely to be partly descendents of Khazars.
It’s a separate nationality, which stays separate to the Ashkenazi Jews, although following the same religion.
Historically, in Crimea, they had their own synagogue and she says even their own theatres (where they performed in their Krymchak language).
Mostly, killed by Nazis during the Second World War, but some smaller numbers are surviving today.
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Another possibility are groups like the Crimean Karaites.
This nationality follows a different interpretation of Judaism (called Karaite Judaism) and have their own Turkic language (Karaim language)
Other possible descendants of Khazars could be Mountain Jews, Georgian Jews and Bukhari Jews.
Europeans with ME admixture. Palestinians are correct.
The results of DNA theories about Ashkenazi Jews is politically very important for Zionists. Can the science be trusted?
Here is Bennett Greenspan, founder of Family Tree DNA:
Can the interpretation of AJ’s DNA be trusted? How much room there is for data tweaking?
Neo-Nazis and Alt-Rightists may favor various Syrians and Iranians in local conflicts, but they generally don’t include them in some “Aryan in-group”.
If the Ashkenazim are a hybrid population of Middle Easterners and Southern Europeans, then they would have less or no steppe i.e. “Aryan” ancestry compared to Europeans as steppe ancestry declines from north to south Europe and is mediated by patrilines in Southern Europe.
“In-groups” arise out of men with shared patrilines maintaining and monopolizing access to a population of women and defending them from foreign patrilines. The Ashkenazim represent competing patrilines from the Middle East that successfully penetrated Europe and gained access to European women. It’s why neo-Nazis and Alt-Rightists are obsessed with the “cuck” thing. It’s why the real Nazis in the Third Reich had lurid propaganda about Jewish men seducing German women. It’s atavistic, primordial stuff. The various reasons that neo-Nazis and Alt-Rightists today may give about their views on Jews are just post-hoc rationalizations.
I’d wager: Italy as likely medieval founder space for the population where it was present for an indeterminent period until roughly the 1200s when it migrated to modern Germany, Poland, western Russia, where maintaining strong internal trade ties yielding Yiddish, while being recipient to genetic drift at all times and places along the way, what the authors here call “admixture”. Italian tracer gene concentrations, arc through Germany-to-Russia, continuous admix.
To Sailer’s question on Palestinian/Israeli I’d wager both will reflect a strong signal from pre-Roman antiquity but Palestinians may show genetic drift from non-Jewish Semitic populations at about what we find in Egyptian Coptic populations, where it is present, but weak.
This should be done for the satisfaction of watching some heads explode, but the answer is obvious. Muslim Palestinian Arabs are descended mostly from invaders and settlers from farther South in the Arabian Peninsula who arrived in the 7th-12th centuries. They have relatively little ‘indigenous’ ancestry.
The Khazar Hoax has been disproven a thousand times over. Get over it.
lol middleeasteye. No agenda there.
Ashkenazi Jews are awfully pale and blue-eyed to be over half Middle Eastern. Willing to bet they are more blue-eyed than the French or the whites in all regions of the U.S except the Midwest and Appalachia. Just looking at them, especially the Orthodox, they appear to be a rather inbred group of Eastern Europeans, maybe with a little Turkic admixture if anything.
Sephardic Jews look half middle eastern half European.
You might settle on a definition of ‘Palestinian’ before you try that.
How about: Somebody born in a Palestinian refugee camp? Somebody who identifies as Palestinian?
The less genetic the definition of Palestinians, the easier it would be for the Zionists to come out more closely related to Temple Era Hebrews.
Let Bibi define the sample of Palestinians.
But, for whatever reason, there doesn’t appear to be much enthusiasm for doing this study among the David Reichs of academia.
What is “Southern ME”? Why don’t they just say Arabian Peninsula?
Who are the sephardi Jews or middle-easterners closest to the ME part of the Ashkenazi genome?
In other words, you emphatically think Ashkenazi jews should throw the Mizrahi jews under the bus. Right?
Is The Times of Israel better for you?
The inference is that something rather significant happened during the days of the middle and later Roman Empire involving Italy and a ‘seed’ population of Levantines – which doubtless was numerically small.
At least, the implication is that Ashkenazi Jews are a ‘new’ hybrid population, in the sense that the seed population of the eventually mighty tribe was initially insignificant, and composed of two differing components, the constituents being of distinct ethnicity on the paternal and maternal sides.
Cf the hypothesised ‘steppe’ IE population, which is said to be EHG paternally and CHG maternally. Another, but older, new ‘hybrid’ ethnicity which also from a small seed grew to a mighty people.
Mordechai Vanunu, the Israeli nuclear plant worker who blew the whistle to the world about Israel’s nuclear weapons, is a Mizrahi whose considers himself to have been and to be mistreated by the Ashkenazim.
He told his tale to a British newspaper. Mossad sent a blonde American Jewess to entrap him in a honey pot, which worked, and he was exfiltrated to Israel and sent to prison.
Vanunu also claimed Israel played a role in organizing the assassination of President Kennedy. Those claims were used to ridicule him and impugn his credibility.
But until documents were declassified by the NSA in 2016, the public had no idea of the extent of the secret struggle going on between President Kennedy, who insisted ever more strongly that Israel forswear nuclear weapons, agree to a non-proliferation pact and allow American experts to inspect the “peaceful” nuclear reactor of the Israelis (or else the US would withdraw its support of Israel) and Prime Minister David Ben-Gurion, who believed the development and possession of nuclear weapons by Israel to be the sine qua non of its ability to survive.
Even now, fifty years later, after promising to release all remaining documents related to JFK, Trump acceded to the intelligence community’s insistence that some must be held back.
Who would have such power to insist on keeping secrets even at this far removal in time? Must be the Mafia.
Admitting that I’m not too fascinated (or knowledgeable) with this field, I don’t think this is accurate. Israeli Jews, on average, claim they’re genetically closely related to Palestinian Arabs:
https://www.haaretz.com/science-and-health/palestinians-and-jews-share-genetic-roots-1.5411201
https://www.forbes.com/sites/jonentine/2013/05/16/israeli-researcher-challenges-jewish-dna-links-to-israel-calls-those-who-disagree-nazi-sympathizers/#7a07eaae28bc
By the way, I don’t find this line of reasoning tenable. National identity is collective destiny, not collective ancestry.
Who is more genetically French? The half-Chinese, half French Canadian? Or the one hundred percent German?
I don’t have an opinion.
Lol, you really have no idea what you’re babbling about. Stay anonymous.
Assuming for the sake of argument that Israel “played a role” in Kennedy’s assassination, why would a low level worker in a nuclear facility have access to such information?
Probably Syrian Jews, Greek Jews, and Samaritans are the closest modern groups to Ancient Jews, with Druze, Assyrian and Levantine Christians behind them.
We really don’t know how much the culturally Arab Muslim groups in the area were also genetically Arabized and them later Turkicized.
An easier question is who the Ancient Jews would consider and prefer as their heirs, easily the AJ, not the Palis.
This could be misleading, Steve. Most of the “European” ancestry is Southern European. What percentage of the Southern European genome at the time was Middle Eastern and African?
I agree about their appearance. But Ashkenazi have been in Northern Europe for about 1000 years. That is plenty of time for a half euro half levantine group to select for pale skin and light eyes. Warmer weather Romanian AJs are darker than their cousins from Poland, Belarus, and Lithuania.
These concepts could well be misleading. Consider the probability that Southern European DNA at the time itself contained Middle Eastern and African admixture genes.
I’ve spent time in Tel Aviv. I’ve never seen a bigger gossip mill in my life.
I don’t think it’s possible to keep secrets within Israel.
I think it’s possible to keep secrets from getting out of Israel, but I don’t think it’s possible to keep secrets within Israel.
This question should have a definitive answer which however may depend on how the genetic distance is defined and calculated.
It is possible that 100% Palestinian would be genetically closer to the population of Palestine 2000 years ago than Ashkenazi Jews.
A notion of 100% anything is questionable. But if we define a race in terms of a clusters within n-dimensional Principal Component space then anybody within the cluster could be stipulated to be 100%.
Chinese did not have much enthusiasm for studying of white red-haired mummies in China. Heads of the mummies frequently were destroyed.
I just read two of his papers and agree they are nutty.
He says Yiddish is Slavic. But have a look at Yiddish written in Latin characters. It is obviously very Germanic.
The great majority of that being “Southern European,” which itself contains Middle Eastern and African admixture. So the percentage of true European ancestry would be less, possibly under 50 percent.
It’s atavistic, primordial stuff.
You must be describing Jewish bigotry against intermarriage with goyim and schwarzim.
Highly unlikely, as Yiddish is a dialect of German.
Maybe. But what about the Christian and Druze Palestinians?
David Reich did say that he was not interested in applying his lab’s resources to studying Ashkenazi Jewish DNA but his argument was mostly that it was an over-studied topic and not that relevant to the lab’s research objectives. He felt his own background was irrelevant to the research mission of his lab.
Have you ever read “The Innocents Abroad” by Mark Twain, Mr Sailer … ? Well worth it, but the part I would emphasize is the side-trip he took through the Levant. According to him (and he had no axe to grind (or indeed any idea an axe existed or would exist)), the area was extremely sparsely inhabited.
Most of the “palestinians” were economic migrants from other Arab areas allowed in by an uncaring overclass (the Mandatory government) across a porous border (hey, wait, why does that sound so darned familiar … ?).
“it would seem like a natural study to dig up some old skeletons from Jerusalem from a couple of thousand years ago and do genome scans on them to see if they are more genetically related to Israeli Jews or to Palestinians”
Ha ha ha ha
Than use some Christian Palestinians and compare them. They will have almost no admixture with Muslim invaders from the south.
Islam is like the Mafia: once you are in you can never get out. Only highly xenophobic groups keep their original religion in this environment.
I lean more towards Israel, but I think it is ridiculous to say that people who have been there for 800-1000 years are not indigenous (certainly some have been there for longer than recorded history, regardless of what they called themselves and what languages they spoke). I think White Americans are indigenous, as are Afrikaners. Now, if you are discussing the Palestinians who are basically recent Arab migrants from Egypt and elsewhere, like Arafat’s parents, you have a point. But the nature of ethnogenesis as I see it means that, even though there was no Palestinian people in Imperial days as an identity (at least none that would not include Jordan, parts of Iraq and Syria), there certainly is one now because of the conflict with the Jews, since it gives them at least one of the three basic units of group identity mythos formation – victory, defeat and emancipation.
The Hajnal Line comes to mind — particularly in light of the role of the Ashkenazi in the immigration disaster visited on northwestern Europe-derived nations.
Nice try but the comments on the selfsame article adequately serve it up. The Khazar thesis is more interesting for its fixation than its historicity.
Anatolian genes are widely diffuse in southern Europe and along the Danube. The causes, ebbs, and flows of that are easy to understand if one isn’t harboring odd fixations. Jewish expressions of Anatolian genes are currents in the larger stream. The curious departure from the main current is a sudden medieval move out of Italy and resettlement in Germany and eastern Europe. Yiddish is obviously derivative of middle high German, to call it Turkic is passing fixation and reflects poorly on the claimant.
You’re not supposed to wonder about these things, because (don’t you remember?) your ancestors stole America from the Indians. Never forget that, and slavery too, you evil European!
See @Bardon’s comment and citation,
I don’t think many heads will explode. Israelis are way ahead of you on this.
Palestinians are indigenuous though in either case. Biblical nominalism is the wisest approach for all parties on this question.
“By the way, it would seem like a natural study to dig up some old skeletons from Jerusalem from a couple of thousand years ago and do genome scans on them to see if they are more genetically related to Israeli Jews or to Palestinians. But ancient DNA expert David Reich announced in his recent book “Who We Are and How We Got Here” that he would never apply ancient DNA technology to anything related to Jews.”
Jerusalem skeletons from, say, 100 BC, would have DNA closer to today’s Palestinians than to today’s Israeli Jews, I have no doubt.
Jewish religious leaders and Israeli political leaders will act to make certain that no such studies are done, and if such studies manage to get done, they will act as terrorists to prevent the results being issued and to ruin the lives of people who did the studies and/or funded them. The reason for such anti-scholarly hostility is that during the period of Second Temple Jerusalem, the Jewish religion came to be one of a rather nasty racism. And that meant that descent directly from Abraham became paramount. Being the blood of Abraham literally ‘saved’ while lacking it made people dirty, unclean, perhaps necessarily damned.
If Ashkenazi Jews, the preponderant movers and shakers of all Modern Jewish ‘activity,’ including founding and running the nation of Israel, are even more than one-third non-Semitic ancestry, then based on the theology of Second Temple Jerusalem, they are at best second class Jews and perhaps usurpers like the Herodians, which means they should be hated as fiercely as ‘real Jews’ hated the Herodians. In fact, because the Herodians were perhaps virtually 100% Semitic, the Herodians were almost certainly far closer to the DNA of Abraham than are Ashkenazi Jews.
For a Dutch speaker its rather obvious that Yiddish is derived from the Rhineland (mostly Frankish) dialects that were spoken in cities like Bruges, Antwerp, Brussels, Cologne, Mainz, Worms, Speyer, Frankfurt and many smaller ones. The Jews came under attack there starting in the time of the crusades (around 1100) and ending with the black death (1350), when nearly all Jews remaining were killed. In those times many Jews were murdered, but many were also expelled. The survivors settled in Poland, where they continued to speak their language. This language evolved of course and was later called Yiddish.
Arafat was born in Cairo, some 2 decades before the founding of the nation of Israel. But I believe that both Arafat’s parents were native to Palestine. He had one Egyptian line through one of the parents.
Yiddish is pure German, with not not enough true Hebraisms to matter.
A bit OT but something that vexes me speaking of that: whenever a white complains about immigration some liberal will bring up muh Indians and stolen land. Often it’s immigrants themselves who do that.
So we “stole” the land and you still immigrated here? So you’re admitting to being an accessory to theft and receiving stolen property?
I stand corrected. Thanks!
Why should we think it inevitable that the Palestinians were genetically overwhelmed by invaders from peninsular Arabia when the Lebanese weren’t?
https://www.biorxiv.org/content/early/2017/05/26/142448
Indeed why should we think it natural that the Palestinians were genetically overwhelmed by invaders from peninsular Arabia when the English weren’t by the Normans, the people of Anatolia weren’t by the Turks and the people of Hungary weren’t by the Magyars?
Mark you, suppose the Palestinians are, say, 90% descended from the Palestinian Jews of two thousand years ago, and the Ashkenazi are only 40% so descended. What follows? What does it matter except as a fascinating historico-scientific question? It’s hardly going to result in peace, friendship, and mutual tolerance breaking out in Israel and Palestine, is it?
By the way, am I the only one to wonder whether the conclusion that Ashkenazi Jews are roughly 40% descended from Levantine populations of roughly a thousand years ago means exactly the same thing as being 40% descended from Palestinian Jews of roughly two thousand years ago?
After the defeat of the Second Jewish Revolt the surviving population of Jerusalem was barred from living there. Much of it presumably spread out across Palestine, Syria, and Lebanon. If they indulged in proselytisation they might have gained converts to their new Rabbinical Judaism. So although it’s perfectly plausible it’s not obvious that the Levantine ancestors of the Ashkenazi were themselves all descendants of the Judaean Jews of Jesus’s time. I doubt if that notion is testable unless, as Steve suggested, ancient DNA from the whole of the Levant were studied. And even if it were it’s quite likely (in my guess) mainly to show that the Levantine populations were much of a muchness – Canaanites all, with the Jews distinct mainly by their religious cult not by their genes.
“Muslim Palestinian Arabs … have relatively little ‘indigenous’ ancestry.” What’s your evidence?
“Nothing makes me happier than the fusion of WASP triumphalism and Ashkenazi tikkun olam. I think something magical and wondrous (and not the least bit Satanic) happens when money-grubbing heretics join with lapsed East European Jews to form a coalition to transform Christendom by force.”
Anglo-Zionist Empire. And it goes all the way back to at least archetypal WASP Oliver Cromwell.
“the Herodians were almost certainly far closer to the DNA of Abraham than are Ashkenazi Jews.”
But why introduce a fictional character such as Abraham?
Often the commenters who throw that horse shit at you had grandparents to wandered into Manhattan and went to work in an accountant’s office or started a magazine. They will whine and complain and cry about how hard it was for those professional office workers and city dwellers to come to an already developed country. They will cite the Statue of Liberty and the Emma Lazarus Immigration Law — after they accuse you and your people of stealing America.
It is not as nutty as it sounds at first glance.
1st of all, he is using “2 Yiddish speaking parents” as a proxy for finding pure Ashkenazim (increasingly rare even in Israel where there are many Sephardi-Ashkenazi marriages). He is not saying that Yiddish itself originated in Turkey, just the people who SPEAK Yiddish. There are many examples throughout the world of races who speak a language that is largely different from their genetic origin (English for one).
2nd he is not saying that Yiddish is not German in vocabulary (in reality about 75% German, the rest being either Hebrew (15%) or Slavic (10%)) – quite obviously it is. He is saying that Hebrew has a Slavic grammatical structure. Again it is common for Pidgin type languages to have the vocabulary of one language but elements of the grammatical structure of another (Ebonics), which often lead native speakers of the vocabulary bearing language to assume that the Pidgin speakers are speaking a “bad” or “incorrect” version of their language. Sometimes the “errors” are even the same – in German you would say ” I don’t want any apples” ( Ich will kein Apfel) but in (transliterated) Yiddish you would say Ich vil nit keyn epl –”I don’t want no apples” because they are mirroring Slavic double negatives (I assume that the base language for Ebonics also featured double negatives). Superficially, ever single word in that Yiddish phrase is Germanic (and every word in the Ebonics sentence is English) but they are not using German/English grammar which makes it seem “wrong” to a native speaker of the base language.
Here is an article that goes into much more depth on the (vocabulary and) grammatical overlaps between Yiddish and Polish. While the Germanic base of Yiddish is quite obvious, it is NOT (bad) German any more than Italian is (bad) Latin.
Oops – here is the link: https://culture.pl/en/article/how-much-polish-is-there-in-yiddish-and-how-much-yiddish-is-there-in-polish
Arafat’s real name was Husseini, which is an old Jerusalemite clan. The Mufti of Jerusalem who was pals with Hitler and encouraged the Final Solution was a Husseini and some sort of cousin of Arafat’s (in the sense that all members of an Arab clan are cousins to some degree). Some people say that he was Arafat’s uncle which is not true.
When people are trying to make genetic claims to a territory, one side always plays up the genetics and the other plays it down (thus all the nonsense about Jews being Khazars). While “Palestine” never existed as a country and there was certainly migration between various parts of the Ottoman empire, in most cases people tended to stay put so a family that was living in a certain village would have (some/most) ancestors who had been living there at least since the Muslim conquest if not longer.
This means, unfortunately, nothing (or else Pennsylvania would still belong to the Lenni Lenape). In the 20th century, there were massive “exchanges of population” (read: bloody expulsions) all over Europe, in Turkey and Greece, India and Pakistan, etc. that affected millions and are now considered fait accompli. Israel now belongs to the Jews and it will continue to belong to them for precisely as long as they can hold onto it.
You don’t know the slightest thing about Judaism. Converts must be treated exactly as those born Jewish. It isn’t blood they’re fixated on, but the soul.
Raises interesting point re the Italian admixture: What part of Italy? When?
Anybody studied “Italian” DNA to segregate something distinctly Italian even Etruscan vs Germanic, Celtic, Greek, Arab, African?
“Italy as likely medieval founder space for the population where it was present for an indeterminent period until roughly the 1200s when it migrated to modern Germany, Poland,”
The Rhine valley had a substantial Jewish community by the end of the 10th century, as is evident from the responsa of Rashi, various lamentations written for the dead of the first crusade etc. Although the Italian origin of German Jews was the consensus opinion of historians for many years, lately opinion has been shifting in favor of Babylonian migration. See for example Hayim Soleveitchik’s recently published collected writings vol. 2
I think a big part of the issue with trying to use genetic evidence to prove or disprove the ashkenazi are related to khazars is no one actually knows who the khazars were. There is apparently a lot of debate, they are generally assumed to be started/led by turkic people but per wikipedia:
“Let Bibi define the sample of Palestinians.
But, for whatever reason, there doesn’t appear to be much enthusiasm for doing this study among the David Reichs of academia.”
Steve, the digging up of ancient Jewish skeletons is an egregious violation of Halakha(Torah law), and would lead to massive rioting among Bibi’s Haredi coalition partners. It is very likely his government would fall over this matter.
Good point , but the Jews in Israel 2,000 years ago were more white than the invaders who ethnically cleansed Israel 1500 years ago. 2,000 years ago Blue eyes may not have been rare among the people of the Levant…
This is probably your wokest comment ever.
But aren’t you supposed to have a Jewish mother to be considered truly Jewish?
You may think that you are presenting a reasonable argument that balances the books but you aren’t. You’re giving the wheel another spin. That some Jews boil off and marry gentiles does not disprove Kevin MacDonald’s theory of Judaism being a group evolutionary strategy. Try this on for size.
It is well established that there is no written evidence, not a single cipher on a shred of paper nor a transcript of radio intercepts from the camps, that speaks of a Nazi plan to exterminate the Jews; ergo, there was no systematic plan to “resolve the Jewish Question once and for all” or put in place and execute a “final solution”.
On the other hand, those who deny MacDonald’s theory of Jew’s group-evolutionary strategy point out that there is no written evidence of complicity amongst Jews*, denouncing such evidence that does exist e.g. The Protocols of Zion, as fake and part of a nefarious plot to slander Jews; ergo, no such cooperation between and amongst Jews exists.
Now show me the Jew who accepts the first and rejects the latter.
*Actually, MacDonald does a terrific job documenting reams of historical evidence that demonstrate just this complicity. Or course, if one never took the trouble to actually read MacDonald’s works they wouldn’t know this.
Aren’t they genetically very similar? Palestinians and Israelis have both been appalled when the closest organ donor match turns out to be someone from the “other” side.
I have no idea what you are talking about. There was a small # of German Jews who came as refugees in the ’30s who were educated enough to pursue white collar work in the US and likewise for some of the Soviet Jews, but in the Ellis Island wave, the vast majority of immigrants who came had little or no Western education and were in no position to work in any kind of office except as janitors. Their children might come up in the world, but those who came as adults would have to do some sort of blue collar work or start their own businesses – for Jews (and I know you mean Jews) most often in the garment trade.
Whining and complaining comes naturally to Jews. In Exodus, the Jews complain to Moses about the boring diet of nothing but manna from heaven:
“Who will feed us meat? We remember the fish we ate freely in Egypt, along with the cucumbers, melons, leeks, onions, and garlic. But now our appetite is gone; there is nothing to see but this manna!” (Number 11:5)
but I never heard the particular complaint you attribute to them.
Then you are completely ignorant of the migrations and invasions that have constituted the history of that region.
Christians are only about 2% of the Palestinian Territories’ population currently, so a rounding error basically. Druze don’t consider themselves to be Palestinian.
“The great majority of that being “Southern European,” which itself contains Middle Eastern and African admixture. So the percentage of true European ancestry would be less, possibly under 50 percent.”
Bullshit.
I think that’s an exaggeration.
With regard to ancient Jews, he tells a quite vivid childhood memory of staying in an Orthodox Jewish neighborhood in Jerusalem during a riot caused by the digging up of old bones. He then says that as an adult, he asked his rabbi uncle’s advice about whether it was inappropriate to be grinding up human bones in the name of science. It seems he is not altogether at ease with what he does, and given his family background, he probably can’t get away with grinding up ancient Jewish bones, but I doubt he’d be opposed to somebody else doing it.
Iran should open up a lab and smuggle in some samples from the West Bank to stick it to Bibi.
Professional linguists will undoubtedly be stunned to discover that Yiddish has Turkic rather than Germanic roots.
Y chromosome? But aren’t Jews supposed to trace descent through the female line, i.e., all those schicksas these male immigrants from the Levant to Europe eventually married?
To ascribe anything other than a Germanic origin to Yiddish is silly.
Don’t worry, Jack. I read Henry Roth forty years ago.
Call It Sleep.
I read the novel while I was living with my dog in a log cabin I built on 400 acres of woodland before I went to college. I wrote about it in my essay on my application. Considering how American universities work, that probably is the reason they let me in.
You know damn well what people I’m talking about.
All this brings up an interesting question: are the trace amounts of Ashkenazi in some commercial DNA tests real? Noise, over-selling, or some kind or political lie? Either to make Jews more Jewish for claims on Israel, or to make Europeans more Jewish for the perpetuation of a multicult ideology.
Personally, I think some of it is probably misidentified, noise, and overselling. Perhaps Southern European introgression into Northern Europe, or else an artifact of Early European Farmers. The reason I think that is some of the other trace amounts don’t really make sense.
Iberian DNA shows up in the British isles and they give what seems to be a transparently phoney timeline. Was the Protestant Ascendancy a good time for Spaniards to settle in Ireland? I doubt it. I guess it is possible, but my gut tells me they are simply overselling it.
Sure thing. We get imperial corruption and racist-supremacism multiplied by a hundred-fold. Seems the sect has still not understood why they have been thrown out of so many countries. A sobering thought is that if the anglo-zionist-globalists abusive one-world agenda advances much further, the next “expulsion” will likely be world-wide.
Israel is becoming a promised land of impunity for crooks and fraudsters
https://israelpalestinenews.org/is-israel-becoming-a-promised-land-of-impunity-for-crooks-and-fraudsters/?eType=EmailBlastContent&eId=68aba503-8dfe-4137-9a9e-c4d1b72dae3c
by Simona Weinglass and David Horovitz, Times of Israel
Israel isn’t just a sanctuary for the world’s Jewish victims of persecution, it has also become a haven for financial fraudsters. Dealers in binary options and the like find law enforcement officers who are lenient or complicit, legislators who champion the illegal practice, and tax policies that encourage such conduct…..
Actually such studies have already been published. They reveal that Palestinians were already in Palestine millenia before the jewws invaded the first time.
Living Descendants of Biblical Canaanites Identified Via DNA
Genome sequenced from 3,700-year-old remains is found in today’s residents of Lebanon.
https://news.nationalgeographic.com/2017/07/canaanite-bible-ancient-dna-lebanon-genetics-archaeology/
More than 90 percent of the genetic ancestry of modern Lebanese is derived from ancient Canaanites, according to a paper published today in the American Journal of Human Genetics.
Researchers supported by The Wellcome Trust were able to sequence the Canaanite genome from the remains of five individuals buried in the ancient port city of Sidon (modern Saïda, Lebanon) around 3,700 years ago. The results were compared against the DNA of 99 modern-day Lebanese residents.
According to the results, Canaanite ancestry is a mix of indigenous populations who settled the Levant (the region encompassing much of modern Syria, Lebanon, Jordan, Israel, and the Palestinian territories) around 10,000 years ago, and migrants who arrived from the east between 6,600 and 3,550 years ago……
I’ve heard it said that Germans aren’t very genetically homogenous. West Germans tend to be like the French. North Germans tend to be like the Danes. East Germans tend to be like the Slavs. And South Germans are of the “Alpine” racial group. I don’t know how accurate this is but it intuitively makes sense.
The high IQ big head looks down on the shiksas, but the no IQ little head just has to have them.
I’m quite sure the rabbis could find that the law contains an exception.
The recent ethnic cleansing of christians by the israelis is well documented and clear. Remember that over 40% of the population of WEST Jerusalem that was ethnic cleansed by the jews in 1949 was christian.
Israel’s Purging of Palestinian Christians
https://original.antiwar.com/cook/2007/01/10/israels-purging-of-palestinian-christians/
You wish it were bullshit. Unfortunately for your political aims, it is true.
or to make Europeans more Jewish for the perpetuation of a multicult ideology
The purpose is to make Europeans more accepting of, if not indulgent towards, Jews.
Nathan Bedford Forrest has Beck ancestry from Pennsylvania.
There are a lot of Southerners with German ancestry. I have seen Forrest’s face before, in Tennessee more than the North. Scary when agitated is the Forrest mug.
This is a very good question. The commercial tests are commercial. They were not scientifically scrutinized by independent scientists.
The largest population group in Israel are Mizrahi Jews (this is in Hebrew language – Middle Eastern Jews).
So debates about the ancestry of Jews of America – it’s not very politically relevant to the country, where the largest group of Jews are from a different ethnic group than the Jews in America or Russia.
Felix Frankfurter’s wife was Presbyterian.
Sam Untermyer’s son Alvin married the WASP daughter of B. Ogden Chisolm.
Interesting piece. Attributing a Southern European source for the Ashkenazim would seem to make sense geographically, though whether of the Greco-Roman or Illyrian variety remains unclear. Maybe all?
You heard correctly. Geography is destiny. Just look at a map of Central Europe. Central Europe has been a battleground involving sundry ethnic groups since “time runneth not to the contrary.” And what we call “Germany” is THE center of “Central Europe” which was why Hitler’s “Master Race” propaganda never passed muster. Germans are a mixture of North European (Danish, Swedish etc), Slavic, Gallic and even to some extent Italian (particularly in Tyrolean Austria)–hardly the ingredients for a single “race.” My father, who was from Germany, always believed that his surname was French. Sure enough, his family’s surname turns out to be extremely popular in Quebec and French-speaking (western) New Brunswick.
The “black Irish,” of whom Colin Farrell may be the most famous example, make it clear that the Irish have some DNA from farther south.
Full-book, in audio format, delightfully read by John Greenman for Project Librivox:
https://archive.org/details/innocents_abroad_librivox
BTW, have you ever made any efforts toward verifying that you are, indeed, The Only Catholic Unionist?
(khurban = destruction)
As others have pointed-out, the term Tikkun Olam properly refers-to a concept that involves scrupulous devotion to Judaic Law and moral principles. Applying the term to Cultural Marxist and other Leftist activism is an utter perversion and sacrilege.
If you mean 23&me, yes they are very real. If it says you are 2% AJ, you almost certainly have AJ ancestry.
What it specifically means is that you have some small number of genes often found in people with 4 AJ grandparents but rare or never of those with 4 purely English grandparents.
The percentages are where the estimates can be more off. But the bottleneck/early inbreeding of AJs, plus the large number of AJ who have been sequenced, means AJ ancestry is pretty easy to accurately detect.
If it weren’t for those darn Jews, the ME Christians in Israel would be doing just great, with all their rights and property protected, just like their relatives in Syria, Iraq, Turkey, and Egypt, all great places for Christians. Few people are more respected and appreciated than Christians in Muslim majority areas.
African admixture was minimal in Southern Europeans back then. Even today, it’s very small (1-2% in Sicilly and Iberia, IIRC – and the Iberian admixture might be paleolithic).
“They reveal that Palestinians were already in Palestine millenia before the jewws invaded the first time.” There’s no evidence that there was a “first time” invasion by Jews. The Old Testament ain’t history. Quite possibly the ancient Jews were just a group of Canaanites who took up a new religious cult. There was no Exodus, there was no conquest by Joshua, and earlier there was no invasion by Abraham and company. It’s all just a bunch of yarns made up, probably, around the time of the Babylonian exile.
Could be a vestigial trait from the pre-indo settlers.
Though there actually are some different ties with Spain, normal trade: a gate in Galway was called the Spanish Gate, since Spanish ships docked nearby. Then there were various soldiers, but it mostly seems like they were massacred by the English, sometimes with native levies. There’s some interesting account of one Spanish officer that survives. He may have trumped up the danger a little, but I bet they were hunted down by the English.
Interestingly, somewhat in the same vein, there is a local legend of an Italian officer who settled down in Co. Kerry during the Desmond Rebellion, and who supposedly had many descendants.
You can’t reduce the origin of a whole language to a one word description. Real life is more complicated.
That doesn’t seem to be something that is appropriate for subjective “belief.”
Fair enough. I read Gone With the Wind 40 years ago so I consider myself an expert on the Old South too.
It’s not like now, when you can just Google it. Back in the day you might have had to go to a library or something.
In terms of total ancestry, the religious minorities of the Levant (Druze, Christian, and Samaritan) are probably the closest thing to the original inhabitants of the land. Sephardic Jews cluster close to them (http://journals.plos.org/plosgenetics/article?id=10.1371/journal.pgen.1003316).
Comparing Palestinians and Ashkenazites, Palestinians probably have more ancestry derived from the old Israelites, but are more shifted away from these ancestors due to African and Arabian admixture.
As was noted, almost anyone, regardless of ancestry*, can become a full-fledged Jew by means of conversion. To be authentic, the conversion must be sincere and not sought for ulterior motives (such as in order to marry a Jew). This requires the convert to fully accept upon himself and commit to upholding all of the numerous and often arduous demands that the religion places upon all members.
*There are a very few exceptions; peoples named in the Bible as those from whom descendants cannot be accepted as converts. It is my understanding that the total number of people affected by such bans is minuscule.
One who is born to a Jewess is bound for life by all commandments, restrictions and other obligations of Judaism (Sabbath; dietary restrictions; daily prayer; sexual strictures; and much more). And held accountable well beyond this earthly existence. An apostate, atheist, heretic or sinner motivated by /spite/ (as opposed to mere lust/weakness) loses all religious privileges and is considered far worse than, say, non-Jew who may live sinful lifestyle on account of lust/weakness (as opposed to spite) but believes in G-d via Christianity or Islam.
I often see discussion regarding the discrepancy between genetic studies of Ashkenazi origins and their appearance, but the two seem consistent to me. They (we) look like what you’d expect assuming a mix of 35-45% fair-skinned Levantine and 55-65% European. Many modern-day Levantines are quite fair. Google Samaritan singer/actress Sofi Tsedaka – she looks indistinguishable from many European ethnic groups. This is also confirmed from my personal experience. I had a Palestinian Christian professor in college that most would take for Greek or Sicilian. Another acquaintance is half Palestinian and half WASP. He doesn’t even look Mediterranean; he just looks like a White guy. A minority of Ashkenazis have blonde hair and blue eyes, but a minority also look like Jeffrey Goldblum and Rahm Emanuel. Most look Italian-ish. My extended family is the typical mix: a few have distinct Levantine features, most do not; some are pasty pale while a handful have an olive complexion comparable to a darker Sicilian.
In addition, Jews have been mixed a very long time, which allows for a divergence between genotype and phenotypic traits. For example, you can have selection for blue eyes and blonde hair while maintaining the original racial/ethnic mix.
It’s a mistake for the various Jewish groups to base their claims to Israel on genetics. My money would be on any number of indigenous Levantine groups having a far greater genetic affinity to the Biblical Jews. The Jews claim, specifically the Ashkenazi, is no different from Whites’ claims to non-European lands everywhere. We came, we built, it’s ours. Too late. (FWIW I identify/sympathize with traditional America and am no Israeli apologist. The US has no business interfering in their conflicts in any way. Completely withdraw from the entire region and let them fight it out).
It’s all interesting, but there are more pressing issues for the Ashkenazi. Like the fact that most of them are knee deep in Liberal/Marxist insanity.
I don’t expect that there are a lot of false positives around the periphery, but I think it could be potentially more difficult to untangle inside Central Europe or Eastern Europe – Italy, Germany, etc. A large AJ sample size might actually bias the results, depending on how things are weighted.
In the example of Iberian DNA in Ireland, I personally just think it is noise, but if one had to grab hold of an historical explanation, I think there were more Irish people who moved to Spain in historical times than the reverse. The Wild Geese and many Catholics seeking an education.
IMO, there is really a drive to oversell the technology. 23andme isn’t really even an ancestry company, they are just a medical database company trying to expand their database by selling to customers who are mostly interested in ancestry, and not their rather, at least at the moment, weak health reports.
If you know your ancestry already, it is not a very compelling product, in my mind. The trace amounts are a kind of spice which they might be reluctant to eliminate, through better modeling.
Agreed and understood that there was a Jewish presence in the Rhine – what I find interesting is that there seems to be substantial movement from Italy to Germany. I’m skeptical of a Babylonian hypothesis in part because the genetic profile for Ashkenazi has a lot in common with Italy only: more Jewish.
I will look into Soloveitchik – thanks.
That is quite correct.
Can people not at least respect such a position? One that holds that the remains of one’s ancestors are sacred and must be treated with dignity?
That could very well be but I would point-out that the Haredim who are the most zealous about matters such as this (grave desecration) tend to be the same ones who are expressly and zealously anti-Zionist. This demographic abstains, on principle, from so much as voting in Israeli elections, much less serving in any Israeli government.
ADDITIONAL INFO:
The position is that since the Zionist State was established and continues to exist in grave violation of Judaic law (halakha), any recognition of and certainly participation in said enterprise makes one complicit in that crime.
The basis of this theological position (which, common mis- and dis-information notwithstanding, is actually quite normative within authentic Judaism) is that Jews are forbidden from establishing sovereignty over the Holy Land before our deliverance from divinely-ordained exile by the Messiah.
Incidentally, a friend of mine who is close with an elderly rabbi who lived in Jerusalem’s anti-Zionist Orthodox community pre-1948, tells me that the rabbi and his wife both recall being on good terms with their Arab neighbors and not fearing them.
It could very well be Krymchaks and Georgian Jews are descendants of Khazars, the problem is we don’t know much about Khazaria. At some point the King converted to Judaism, but there is debate about how widespread the conversion was among the general population of the area.
This latest genetics study seems pretty conclusive that most Ashkenazi are not descendants of Khazars and/or Caucasians.
They were doing fine until the Zionists invaded and started killing Muslims.
This is accurate. The problems really started with the Zionist invasion.
Disingenuous deflections come naturally, don’t they?
You know damn well what I am talking about, and I made an effort to show some understanding of your perspective too, but you just had to make a completely unrelated analogy and pretend it is an argument, when in fact you have not proved anything.
I did not claim to be an expert, nor did I need to. You know I am right, and that is why you wrote the reply you did.
All you are doing now is confirming a stereotype. You are not helping yourself.
“A large AJ sample size might actually bias the results, depending on how things are weighted.”
If a larger sample size reduces the accuracy of your method, your method is horribly flawed.
23andme’s ancestry result widget is admirably transparent, even letting you quickly change confidence levels.
One thing I noticed is that the estimate for AJ ancestry changes much less when you ramp up the required confidence level.
ROTFLMAO
So let’s see if I have this straight: Vanunu learned of Israel’s responsibility for the Kennedy assassination simply by hanging out in Israel; then he bravely sneaked that information out; but meanwhile all the tens of thousands of Israelis who are living in New York, New Jersey, Los Angeles, and Europe — running moving companies, pitching sea salt, and generally pursuing Parnassa — every last one of them is keeping his mouth shut about this conspiracy.
Also, all of the Leftist Jewish academics and intellectuals in Israel who are calling for a boycott of their own country are nonetheless keeping silent about their country’s responsibility for the Kennedy assassination.
Does that about sum up your position?
What color is the sky in your world?
Strangely enough, it is hypothesised that that the Khazars – a classic ‘Steppe’ people if there ever was one – were, in the main, a Sintashta type population.
The irony is that the Sintashta peoples – pure Europeans more or less , with white skin, light hair and light eyes – are the classic ‘Aryan’ archetype as lionized by Hitler etc.
No.
They are *real* alright.
The Ashkenazi being the quintessential endogamous population have a very very distinct genetic signature, peculiar and exclusive to Ashkenazi alone, which is readily detectable in even trace amounts.
As an aside, virtually all living Mexicans have ‘trace’ Ashkenazi revealed by commercial DNA testing. This, strangely enough, is the legacy of ‘converso’ heritage in the small, originating, Spanish settler stock. Now widely dispersed and blended in.
The genetics tell us that there was a massive genetic replacement in bronze age Ireland.
The so called ‘Bell Beaker Folk’ a group with ultimate provenance in central and eastern Europe, more or less eliminated the previous Irish population and made the island their own.
Apparently Irish genetics have changed little since.
In those tough times, the English authorities which ran Ireland, during the time of the Spanish Armada, simply killed without mercy every single shipwrecked Spaniard they found.
Interestingly, the poet Edmund Spenser, the author of the ‘Faery Queen’ was involved in these massacres in some capacity or other.
‘converso’ heritage. – conversos were not Ashkenazi
Clearly, I’m not. But the only one here…
I’d like to see the results of genetic tests. It seems doubtful that Arabia had enough people to replace the entire population from Algeria to Iraq within the century of the Muslim conquests.
Darn it! If I ever met Dr. Duke, I was going to ask him about this mole on my back.
David Irving argued that there is no evidence of a written order from Hitler to this effect. Nobody has been able to contradict him.
However, there is ample evidence of Nazi massacres of Jews. When the Einsatzgruppen radioed their reports back to base, they were intercepted and decrypted at Bletchley Park, not just once, but in large numbers. The Einsatzgruppen murdered an estimated 1.3 million Jews.
The minutes of the Wannsee Conference refer to a “final solution” of the Jewish Question, in terms of “deportation to the East”. Most historians believe that this was a euphemism for extermination.
Agreed – and Genesis and Exodus, because they describe the earliest events, are the least likely to be historical.
Sigmund Freud suggested that the true story of Exodus was the flight from Egypt of followers of the monotheistic religion of Akhenaten. The religion was suppressed after Akhenaten’s death, and the remaining followers were persecuted during the reign of Rameses II, 70 years later.
Perhaps the Biblical story was made up during the Babylonian exile. An origin at this time would have made the idea of an earlier exile in Egypt more plausible, while concealing the possibly unwelcome suggestion that Moses and his followers were native Egyptians.
I don’t doubt it, but I suspect that the same applied to most of the Middle East in the mid-19th Century – it was much less densely populated than Europe. There has been a huge natural increase in the population of the region during the last 150 years. For comparison, the population of Iraq today is 37 million. In the 1860s, it was only 1.3 million – even though the country was renowned for the fertile land of Mesopotamia.
Re, your “sarcastic” paragraphs (which didn’t strike me as sarcastic, so much as aggressive):
In my experience, all of you guys (who present this sort of critique) are either not bright enough to understand my counterargument, or arguing in bad faith (i.e. for propaganda points, not truth) and unwilling to acknowledge my counterargument (I think the latter is more common). TBH I’ve made this counterargument so many times to rude, lying fucks, who don’t bother to even acknowledge its existence, that I find it rather tedious. All of which is to say I’ll try and keep this short and sweet, because I’m not expecting much from you.
1 You misapprehend pro-Whites as monolithic on the topic; there’s a wide range of views, from continental racial nationalism (White racial unity) to ethnonationalism (British, Czech, etc.) to Nordicism and, I presume, its reciprocal (Medicism?). If I had to guess I’d say most pro-Whites are ethnonationalists like me who think Britain for the British, Germany for the Germans, Hungary for the Hungarians, etc., while acknowledging the next, brighter line as surrounding the European race. And that the minority draw that circle wide enough to include the entire Caucasoid race, and thus Syrians and Persians.
2 Even if all pro-Whites held the minority opinion, many would excommunicate Jews for sociopolitical reasons, much as pro-Whites might excommunicate a White ethnonationalist from a pro-White organization for miscegenation or treachery. This would have more to do with behavior, than with a genetic assay.
3 Yes, there’s a subset of pro-Whites who are cranks who are into hokum like (((Arthur Koestler’s))) Khazar “theory” and the like. I tend to ignore them. I think arguing with the least capable advocates of an ideology can be a form of straw man argument; defeating them doesn’t win you much.
4 The subject of Jewish intermarriage is a particularly shopworn one; I’ve beaten that subject to death before, and I almost never even get an acknowledgement that I’ve replied, so I’m going to repost an old, comprehensive reply below.
5 It’s interesting how Kevin MacDonald has whupped the entire Jewish race. I couldn’t steal his thunder if I wanted to, so I’ll just leave that discussion to MacDonald and a few others.
(Steve, forgive me for reposting this; I ran several searches looking for it, using Unz’ code and g**gle search but couldn’t find it. It didn’t even show up in simple searches. This time I’ll create a bookmark and link to it next time this tedious subject is broached. For your convenience I note that, IIRC, you have already reviewed and approved this comment once – I have changed nothing but the intro.)
Jewish Intermarriage
Here are some of my past comments about the “intermarriage” fig leaf:
http://www.unz.com/isteve/jewish-country-club-might-blackball-obama/#comment-1724493
P.S., there’s a lot of BS stats floating around about Jewish “intermarriage.” Hell, even the term “intermarriage” takes the racism to a whole new level; they see marrying “whites” as “marrying out.” Their level of “intermarriage” is lower than that of any other White group (Whites don’t think about how many French marry Irish, etc., don’t record the numbers, would look at you funny if you made a thing out of it), so obviously, they’re more “racist” in this way than any other Whites. You know, the Whites Jews are always accusing of racism.
http://www.unz.com/isteve/cathy-young-ann-coulter-is-anti-semitic-but-sabrina-rubin-erdely-couldnt-possibly-be-anti-gentilic/#comment-1417175
Nah. 1. Jewish marriage habits are a lot more insular than than those of other white ethnic groups. French, Czech, Italian, Irish, etc…these groups do not even track so-called “intermarriage,” and the rates are much higher than for Jews. So Jewish marriage habits actually reveal particularism. 2. These much less particularist habits don’t stop (white) people from having animus against Irish, Italian, Czech, French, etc., ethnic groups, or constitute a valid defense for same.
http://www.unz.com/isteve/cathy-young-ann-coulter-is-anti-semitic-but-sabrina-rubin-erdely-couldnt-possibly-be-anti-gentilic/#comment-1417182
It’s funny, but, the Jews’ frequent refrain of “look how often we’re intermarrying” actually reveals their particularism. Whites don’t notice so-called “intermarriage” at all. It’s their norm. They don’t even think to bring it up, and they don’t track its frequency (and if they do it’s usually on Jews’ behalf!). That this is not so for Jews reveals that they’re concerned about it in a way that whites are not.
http://www.unz.com/isteve/cathy-young-ann-coulter-is-anti-semitic-but-sabrina-rubin-erdely-couldnt-possibly-be-anti-gentilic/#comment-1417654
Actually, it is. What Jews call “intermarriage” (white marrying white), whites call “marriage.” That’s the oranges to oranges comparison, and the one I was making. Interracial marriage and “intermarriage” are apples and oranges in this context.
http://www.unz.com/isteve/cathy-young-ann-coulter-is-anti-semitic-but-sabrina-rubin-erdely-couldnt-possibly-be-anti-gentilic/#comment-1418441
Like I said, this figure is LOW. Most white ethnicities have “intermarriage” rates much higher than that. “Intermarriage” isn’t even a word for them. It’s totally not a thing. But it is for Jews, who keep close track of it, have groups and measures that work to counteract it, and activists who call it a “silent holocaust.” How does this not evidence particularism and ethnocentrism?
You’ve just provided another data point; how many Irish even know what their “intermarriage” rate is? How many Irish will even know WTF you’re talking about when you ask about their “intermarriage” rate? There are many values you can substitute for “Irish” here.
But Jews all seem to know their “intermarriage rate” (the Jewish interracial marriage rate, however, seems to be a state secret, and probably not because it makes them look honest in their supposed commitment to diversity and tolerance).
True, but irrelevant. We’re talking ethnic groups. Isn’t it about time you guys started resisting the urge to be deceptive (at least, in such a blatantly transparent and insulting way)? It’s the current year. Time to get over your “the goyim will fall for anything” prejudice.
To belabor the obvious: the “intermarriage” stats Jews keep include 100% irreligious Jews.
http://www.unz.com/isteve/blacks-hate-bernie/#comment-1340763
American Jews still make a great contrast to American Christians. Refusing to sanction marriages between Catholics and Protestants? Having anything at all negative (or even not-positive) to say about marriages between Catholics and Protestants? For church leaders? Waaaaay out there. Very, very fringy.
Even having a household word for it, “intermarriage,” is weird.
Getting away with it all with no opprobrium, while also being Apartheid Israel’s BFF? Priceless.
http://www.unz.com/isteve/ny-daily-news-s-b-victim-was-hate-filled-bigot-for-liking-hateful-ann-coulter/#comment-1253373
Nice false distinction between French marrying Czechs, Russians marrying Brits, etc., and Jews marrying French, Czechs, Russians, Brits, etc.
That’s what Jews refer to as “intermarriage”; Jews marrying whites (and other Jews occasionally sitting Shiva, calling it a silent holocaust, etc). Whites have no word for this. Ergo, Jews are somehow less racist, or something.
http://www.unz.com/isteve/what-northeastern-liberals-dont-get-about-mexicans/#comment-797747
Sort of like how normal whites don’t keep track of how often they marry other white people, under the rubric of “intermarriage” (yes, an atheistic Jew raised an atheistic Jew who marries an atheistic German raised an atheistic German has “intermarried” according to Jews), or rub elbows with people who think of it as a “silent holocaust.”
http://www.unz.com/isteve/when-whites-just-dont-get-it-part-3/#comment-736058
But that’s just it – Jews are the white group most alarmed by intermarriage, by far. Nobody else even notices when French marry Polish, Italians marry Irish, etc. It’s considered the norm. Jews are the only ones objecting. They closely monitor this “intermarriage” (nobody else even considers it that), offer no opprobrium to the Jews shouting alarms over the “silent holocaust,” etc.
http://www.unz.com/isteve/mena-hispanic-nonwhite-speaks-truth-to-power-on-immigration/#comment-671661
Sigh. Not this again.
That’s probably their most important technique: start the conversation over at square 1 every time, wear out their opponents and bore them to death. Force everyone to jump through all the hoops, every time. Grind city. Lots of copying and pasting helps.
Throw in the full spectrum of logical fallacies and arguing in bad faith, et voila.
They play a lot of games with their data (they’re Jewish organizations, not exactly the high water mark for honest critique of Jews), and the studies aren’t verifiable [corrected error in original ~ SVY] (they’re closed). There are a lot of games to be played with the data, which should be obvious but bears stating anyway. In short, I don’t trust their data. They certainly have motivation to lie in the direction that the studies always turn out (and I can expand on that if you like).
Jews won’t even allow the US census to count them, FFS. We really have no clue how many of them there are in America.
The white “gentile” “intermarriage rate” is probably higher than 58% everywhere in the western world, to the extent that it’s possible (i.e., where there’s sufficient diversity).
Have you been AWOL during the last umpteen times we’ve discussed this (recently)? Or are you a liar? Because we’ve been over this, and those are the only choices. Jews “intermarrying” with whites is not at all the same thing as whites “intermarrying” with blacks. Jews “intermarrying” with blacks is equivalent to whites “intermarrying” with blacks.
So, you’re inadvertently proving my point. Jews do not marry blacks in statistically-relevant numbers. That’s why you can go to G**gle and try to find some data and you’ll get zilch; because the supposedly black-loving, diversity-celebrating, multicultural, lefty, intermarriage-happy Jews don’t marry blacks. They know this could lead to bad PR if it gets out, so instead, they just sweep the whole question under the rug.
Whites intermarry with blacks at a far higher rate than Jews do.
http://www.unz.com/isteve/mena-hispanic-nonwhite-speaks-truth-to-power-on-immigration/#comment-671664
FFS.
http://www.unz.com/isteve/mena-hispanic-nonwhite-speaks-truth-to-power-on-immigration/#comment-671773
Jews make a big deal about xx% of Jews marrying white people when there’s no figures to which we can even compare whatever (dubious) number they’re referencing, because nobody else is even ethnocentric enough to keep track of how many Irish-Americans marry German-Americans, Italian-Americans marry Polish-Americans, etc.
Lulz.
http://www.unz.com/isteve/mena-hispanic-nonwhite-speaks-truth-to-power-on-immigration/#comment-671805
When I read up on one of the biggest studies a few years ago, I discovered that the people who made it played a lot of footsie with the numbers. I can’t recall exactly what it was, something about casting a very wide net as to “who’s a Jew” for the purposes of intermarriage (counting 1/4 Jews and such) to make it look like there was more Jewish intermarriage than there was, and then switching to some other criteria in other parts of the study. My point isn’t about the specific problems with the study, though, so much as what I gathered from it: it’s moronic to trust Jews (and only Jews’; no one else is allowed to count them) on this subject when they have every reason to lie (“the sky is falling! Circle the wagons! Silent Holocaust! Send money now! We’re the diversiest ever! No ethnocentrism here!” etc.).
I don’t suggest the numbers are wrong. I suggest they’re unverifiable, that quality is baked into the cake, and the people who provide them have strong motivation to deceive.
I have no better estimate to provide, though I’d guess that if they’re wrong, they’re low; the smaller the minority, the more sympathetic. The larger the minority, the more threatening.
http://www.unz.com/isteve/slavoj-zizek-on-kevin-macdonalds-culture-of-critique/#comment-605328
2) Jews define “intermarriage” as a Jew marrying a “Gentile” German, a Scot, etc. There aren’t even records for how high the rate is for such “intermarriage” between Germans and Scots, English and Czechs, etc. It is absolutely certain to be much higher than the rate of “intermarriage” for Jews, of course. The very fact that Jews track (and whine over) this is evidence that their rate is lower. It’s a non-issue for the groups with which Jews are “intermarrying.”
3) Jews won’t even broach the subject of real intermarriage, e.g., the rate at which they marry blacks. Because the rate is so low, they want to sweep it under the rug because it makes them look like racists (because they are).
http://www.unz.com/isteve/slavoj-zizek-on-kevin-macdonalds-culture-of-critique/#comment-605342
Lol. You’re kidding, right? Let’s accept that absurd figure at face value; you really think 30% of English-Americans marry English-Americans, 30% of Czech-Americans marry Czech-Americans, etc? “Gentile” Euro-Americans don’t even notice this stuff. At all. A vocal minority of Jews call the equivalent the “silent holocaust” and the like (and aren’t accused of anything by their community, I might add). Resisting this “intermarriage” is a respected Jewish pastime, in fact.
This one’s from Reiner Tor, but very informative:
http://www.unz.com/isteve/slavoj-zizek-on-kevin-macdonalds-culture-of-critique/#comment-607028
http://www.unz.com/isteve/slavoj-zizek-on-kevin-macdonalds-culture-of-critique/#comment-607521
But Europeans of all nationalities tolerate much higher levels of their own marrying other European nationalities. And dramatically higher rates of marrying non-Europeans. How is this inconsistent with the idea that Europeans are less ethnocentric than Jews? It seems perfectly consistent to me, especially given how much more “liberal” Jews are supposed to be compared to Europeans; we should see the opposite, but we don’t.
Well, I suppose that would be one application of the old “Chosen of G-d” theme. So, if Jews marrying other Caucasoids is equivalent to Europeans (or, presumably other Caucasoids) marrying Negroids or Mongoloids, then what do you call Jews marrying Negroids (something that happens so rarely that Jews treat the stats for it like a dirty national secret)? What’s the Jewish equivalent of European intermarriage – Ashkenazis marrying Sephardics? Doesn’t this mean that ultimately, the Jewish equivalent of marrying your high school sweetheart is marrying your sister instead?
No, Jews are roughly equivalent to a European nationality. French, German, English, Jewish, these things belong more to the same category than not. Just as a Frenchman marrying a German crosses national-racial lines, but not continental-racial lines, same goes for Jews marrying people from Caucasoid nationalities.
http://www.unz.com/isteve/slavoj-zizek-on-kevin-macdonalds-culture-of-critique/#comment-607625
Another good Reiner Tor comment.
P.S., Jews don’t marry Blacks:
http://www.unz.com/isteve/cathy-young-ann-coulter-is-anti-semitic-but-sabrina-rubin-erdely-couldnt-possibly-be-anti-gentilic/#comment-1421153
@Svigor
Saw this study vindicating your point and instantly thought of you.
“Gendered Racial Exclusion among White Internet Daters.” http://paa2008.princeton.edu/papers/80046
Relevant portion: “Specifically, we see that whites who identified as Jewish were dropped from the analysis of black exclusion because it was a perfect predictor; that is, all white men and women who identified as Jewish excluded blacks as possible dates; all white women who identified as Jewish also excluded Asian men as possible dates.”
****
There, that’s a sampling of my arguments against the “Jewish intermerriage rates prove Jews aren’t ethnocentric” nonsense. Some people are good at keeping track of the personal aspects of debates, and would hold your feet to the fire the next time you play obtuse on this subject, but I am not among them, so feel free to play the Jewish “reset” game in the next thread.
On the other hand, I have finally saved all of this in a text file, so I’ll just link to this comment or post it again, the next time someone asks this oft-answered question.
Is that why you push the whole “All Jews have black blood pumping through their hearts” nonsense? Because you’re Mizrahi or some other kind of dark-skinned Jew?
One of the more interesting things about the New Testament is how badly people seem to have misinterpreted The Good Samaritan. I think it’s an ethnonationalist parable, written by a Jewish ethnonationalist to his excessively hardline compatriots, arguing that a very similar but rejected population (the Samaritans) are actually Jews, or should be accepted as such.
So, almost the exact opposite of the modern leftist interpretation.
I never really thought about how well the Palestinians can be substituted for the Samaritans. Obviously not a perfect match, because unlike the Samaritans the Palestinians would reject the parable, but it’s still an interesting parallel IMO.
But there is a kernel of truth there, in that Greeks, Turks, and other Levantines are part of a haplogroup, right? One distinct from other, surrounding populations?
The main theory in question coming from Arthur Koestler, a warm Ashkenazi Jew who wrote it to deflect charges of “racial purity” in Jews and establish Jews as “diverse.”
But who’s counting?
Until some goy calls Israel an ethnostate, at which point all the Zionist Jews will trot out pictures with Black Israelis in them.
It’s funny how he thinks “all Jews are indeed part of one genetically united people” follows from “unmistakable evidence that Ashkenazi Jews are closely related to one another.” He must be speaking to a goy audience (Jews have this thing where they act like all goys are stupid). Sammy Davis Jr., anyone?
Jews never get over the lame, debunked crap in Jewish culture, and constantly deployed here. They just keep posting it, over and over, ad infinitum.
Hate to break it to him, but “cuck” is totally a meme now. I’ve heard it from libs’ teenaged kids.
If you’re saying Jews are best compared to West Asians and Muslims, and not Europeans or Christians, I’m not going to argue with you.
All of which kinda falls apart when you consider the fact that Bill Maher the atheist pimp or Einstein the unobservant agnostic/atheist would be eligible for the Right of Return.
You’re making two false assumptions.
First, you are assuming that it simply isn’t possible for an Israeli (who in this particular case happens to have been a worker in the most sensitive secret program the Israeli state had) to hear an account of secret government activity.
But you have not the first clue who the friends, co-workers, neighbors, old school chums, fellow synagogue members, etc., of this person were. You have no idea at all what circles he was in or those others were in and what rumors they might have heard and passed on to others. You simply have no basis of knowledge to make the assumption you are making.
You just wave your hand and say it’s not possible for such a person to hear of such things.
And don’t then grab another straw man and claim that either no one would know about it or everyone would know about it. (“If that’s true then why didn’t my cousin Rachel who is a student at Hebrew University hear about this rumor? Hmm?”) When I say secrets are hard to keep in Israel I don’t mean every last Israeli knows every last secret of the government.
Second, you assume that it’s not possible to keep secrets confined to Israel. Consider the nuclear bomb program itself.
Throughout the 1950s Israel had scientists embedded in France’s nuclear development program. Israel constructed a nuclear plant with a nuclear weapons production facility in Israel. They developed working nuclear weapons by the Six-Day War and were trucking components for the production and the products thereof all over the country. The weapons were stored at bases in Israel and handled by Israeli soldiers and airmen.
Yet no details of these secrets were made known outside Israel until Vanunu in 1986. For decades the secrets of this were successfully kept, yet many people in Israel would have known some aspects of it during all that time.
The Samaritans are still around, living in Samaritan villages on two hilltops in Israel.
This is what the minutes say (whoever wrote them read Darwin):
Under proper guidance, in the course of the final solution the Jews are to be allocated for appropriate labor in the East. Able-bodied Jews, separated according to sex, will be taken in large work columns to these areas for work on roads, in the course of which action doubtless a large portion will be eliminated by natural causes.
The possible final remnant will, since it will undoubtedly consist of the most resistant portion,
, because it is the product of natural selection and would, if released, act as a the seed of a new Jewish revival (see the experience of history.)
One can only infer from the last sentence that the “most resistant portion” would have to be murdered.
That would explain 3 non-negotiable beliefs and practices that set the Hebrews completely apart from the Canaanites:
1. Monotheism
2. Iconoclasm
3. Circumcision
Einstein’s Pantheism is well recorded.
He did not believe in Judaism or Christianity but he was more critical of atheists than he was of believers.
Btw, I am guessing that you, as a rabid neo-nazi, hate Einstein and his “Jewish physics” with a passion. Right?
Shameless pedantry: no, they were in fact sarcastic. “Sarcasm” is commonly understood as stating views as if the speaker nominally agrees with them, but presenting them in such a way and using such a tone as to clearly indicate that he thinks they are ridiculous. However, I realize the use of sarcasm may, intentionally or not, obscure the speaker’s actual beliefs, so I attempted to clearly express some of my relevant beliefs without irony.
No, I don’t believe I do. (Though to be clear I am an American and am thinking primarily of American white nationalists; I understand that European nationalists may have different views.) As I said in my original comment, Andrew Anglin (whose website, the Daily Stormer, is as far as I know the most popular white nationalist website), Richard Spencer and Dr. David Duke, who I think are representative examples of prominent white nationalists, all frequently speak of “the white race”, “white interests”, “white people”, “white history”, et cetera, casually using the broad conception of the white race I just outlined, and often contrast these with their Jewish equivalents, because they evidently believe that “whites” and “Jews” are categories of the same level.
To riff on an analogy that Steve uses: I think most white nationalists see the white race like a family inside a house. Sure, you want to have separate rooms so people can have a bit of privacy, but at the end of the day a lot more effort goes towards preventing strangers from entering the house than from preventing family members from entering each other’s rooms. My point was that this seems to require a convoluted and inconsistent definition of race as a family in order to define Ashkenazi Jews as a separate race.
I’m a little confused as to what your claim is here, but it seems like you’re talking about something very different. As I see it, ethnic nationalists believe in judging members of their in-group on the basis of their behavior, but members of their out-group on the basis of the collective they belong to. Note that I’m not condoning or condemning this viewpoint, as I don’t want to litigate all the complex issues it raises at the moment.
So, white nationalists excommunicating individual Jews, even many individual Jews, on the basis of their individual behavior, sort of the Jared Taylor viewpoint, would be very different than defining Jews as a separate group and using a collective judgement for the group rather than evaluating its individual members.
You seem to reiterate the same—I think quite mistaken— basic points throughout the copious comments you quote, so hopefully you’ll understand that I don’t want to read through all them.
Firstly, you are confused as to what at least I am arguing about the significance of high rates of Jewish-white Gentile intermarriage. I am not saying that I think a Jew marrying a white Gentile is a racial intermarriage. For instance, I myself am the product of a Jewish parent and a Nordic/Germanic parent; no one on either side of my family would consider this to be an interracial marriage or myself to be of mixed race, the way they would if one of my parents was, say, Afro-Caribbean, Chinese or mestizo Hispanic.
I am saying that, from the perspective of white nationalists who believe that Ashkenazi Jews and white Gentiles are separate races and believe that Jews believe this as well, a marriage between an Ashkenazi Jew and someone of non-Jewish European ancestry is an interracial marriage, as much as if the Jew had married a black or Chinese person. For instance, Dr. David Duke speaks often of Jewish racism and Jewish supremacism.
Thus, if you consider Ashkenazi Jews to be a racial category separate from Europeans, they have an extremely high rate of intermarriage, which would be completely bizarre behavior if they were indeed following a group evolutionary strategy meant to advance their own interests at the expense of others.
I did not claim that Jews have a higher inter-ethnic marriage rate than other white ethnic groups, nor do I see the relevance of the comparison. Indeed, your comparison seems to, if anything, demonstrate how absurd the argument that Jews are extremely ethno-centric is. No one would say that Italian- or Irish-Americans see themselves as a separate race and are fanatical ethnocentrists who put their own interests ahead of everyone else’s. Yet non-Orthodox Jews—who according to many white nationalists do in fact fit that description—marry outside their ethnicity at what can mathematically only be at most modestly lower rates, given that 70% of such marriages are to non-Jews according to Pew.
I don’t share your impression that Jews are significantly less likely to marry to blacks than other whites, though certainly like most whites they seem to generally prefer partners from other races. Quincy Jones was married to a Jewish woman, with whom he fathered Rashida Jones and another child. Amiri Baraka was also, I believe, married at some point to a Jewish woman, and wrote a play about black-Jewish relationships. Richard Wright also had a Jewish wife, I believe. Tom Wolfe relates a black radical ditty in “Radical Chic” with lines deploring the alleged tendency of Jewish women to tempt black men away from black women. On the other side of the ledger, a New Yorker article about Black Lives Matter mentioned that a major leader of the movement had a black mother and Jewish stepfather. Marian Wright Edelman’s husband, Peter Edelman, is Jewish.
On a related note, the Reiner Tor comment you quote also seems mistaken to me. My impression is that more ethnocentric black men tend to make a point of seeking black women as partners, even if they think that women of other races are more attractive, and that more ethnocentric blacks tend to disparage black men who seek white wives. For instance, Tupac Shakur publicly criticized Quincy Jones on this point. (Steve actually wrote about this issue in regards to Obama’s own life in America’s Half-Blood Prince.)
Reiner’s suggestion that you can be loyal to your race/ethnicity without caring about perpetuating its gene pool would be quite a shock to white nationalists! Remember the 14 words, as they say.
Dr. Duke might be able to give you some good advice; he wrote a women’s self-help book in the 70s, often regarded as one of the highlights of his oeuvre, with lots of advice about cosmetics and health and such.
Agree. I’m not contesting the historical fact that Nazi Einsatzgruppen murdered many Jews. I’m pointing out that what’s good for the goose is good for the gander. No sane Jew would accept the first argument but many support the equally specious latter. “Show us the proof of collusion between Jews”, they say, “a written document signed by the co-conspirators, a manifesto. If you can’t do so, then allegations of Jewish co-operation are just paranoia”.
Any Zionism in Indonesia ?
If not , why has the Islamic Indonesian government invaded Christian Papua and killed half a million Christians in an occupation continuing today ?
Why then did Indonesia invade and occupy Christian Timor , killing half the population?
Why do blasphemy laws in Indonesia only apply to Christians ?
Why is it illegal to build a church on a street named after a Muslim , but perfectly legal to build a mosque on any street in the country ?
Cite a source.
My political aims? Stop immigration, keep America American. You must know something about me I don’t know about myself.
Why would you assume that?
Well, that’s true to the extent that Yiddish-speakers would have tried to adopt more standard Germanisms, or rather to the extent that they would have neglected or resisted such adoption. So probably near 100% today, but in the 19th century, who knows? There were certainly writers trying to make Yiddish a more prestigious and more literary language, but I doubt it was so considered by, say, the majority of educated German Jews.
Well, it turns out (as of 2013) that you are right, Anon! S. Euros DO have African genes.
North African. Africa’s a pretty big continent, but I’m sure you knew that. I’m also sure you can look it up yourself. And I’m also sure you won’t.
Have a nice life in your hole.
Thanks for replying. I wonder if you have any comment on the following quote from Wikipedia:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_unionist
Do you consider the above sentences accurate, reasonable and free from bias?
“accurate, reasonable and free from bias?”
Well, first of all, you missed the Oxford comma.
I think it’s fair to draw a distinction between one who favors staying in the UK and someone who is a capital ‘u’ Unionist. And, to be sure, there are a lot of people who are Protestant for political reasons rather than theological ones (there are, e.g., several organizations like the Orange Order that have explicit religious tests for membership). Like a lot of things in Ulster, it’s complicated. But, yeah, the above is about as neutrally as you can put it.
[On a lighter note (from a safe distance), what's funny is how some of these things play out in Old Firm ties [Rangers-Celtics football matches] in Glasgow. Ranger fans having foam red Ulster hands rather than “#1″ ones, singing “God Save the Queen” as a rally song, etc ….]
“In other words, Ashkenazi Jews are about 53% European and 47% Middle Eastern by ancestry.”
NONSENSE! The Ashkenazi have 0% Middle Eastern genetic ties!
I am Middle Eastern and I think the notion of the white Europeans known as the
Ashkenazi being my cousins is just funny!
https://imgur.com/iLBmKVt
Thank you again, TOCU. Your perspective is most interesting.
As for the matter of the Oxford comma, would that my weaknesses in grammar be limited to that one area. I always welcome corrections.
As I think was pretty clear, I was addressing (in response to a question that someone had asked) religious conversion and related matters, from an orthodox Judaic perspective.
The Right of Return is a policy of the so-called State of Israel, a Zionist, secular entity. (One that, at least according to what was an overwhelming consensus of the authentic, outstanding rabbinic authorities, was established in violation of Judaic law.)
“I can cite FIVE marriages between Jews and black goyim, therefore your argument that Jews marry blacks at lower rates than Europeans (and their diaspora) do is CLEARLY FALSE!!!”
Well, at least your parody of low-effort pilpul was mildly entertaining, I guess. Though I don’t think it was necessary to make the substitution of random anecdotes and feelz in place of actual data quite so obvious — satire is better when it’s a little bit subtle, you know…
So you’re claiming that Einstein was NOT a member of the Jewish people, and would NOT have been eligible for Israeli citizenship? Perhaps you should inform the rest of your tribe of this remarkable discovery, hmm?
Almost none: http://italianthro.altervista.org/italians.html