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From the Associated Press:

Kept out: How banks block people of color from homeownership
AARON GLANTZ

PHILADELPHIA (AP) — Fifty years after the federal Fair Housing Act banned racial discrimination in lending, African Americans and Latinos continue to be routinely denied conventional mortgage loans at rates far higher than their white counterparts.

By the way, if blacks and browns are People of Color, but whites and Asians are not, then what color are Asians?

Invisible color?

This modern-day redlining persisted in 61 metro areas even when controlling for applicants’ income, loan amount and neighborhood, according to millions of Home Mortgage Disclosure Act records analyzed by Reveal from The Center for Investigative Reporting.

The yearlong analysis, based on 31 million records, relied on techniques used by leading academics, the Federal Reserve and Department of Justice to identify lending disparities.

It found a pattern of troubling denials for people of color across the country, including in major metropolitan areas such as Atlanta, Detroit, Philadelphia, St. Louis and San Antonio. African Americans faced the most resistance in Southern cities – Mobile, Alabama; Greenville, North Carolina; and Gainesville, Florida – and Latinos in Iowa City, Iowa.

No matter their location, loan applicants told similar stories, describing an uphill battle with loan officers who they said seemed to be fishing for a reason to say no.

“I had a fair amount of savings and still had so much trouble just left and right,” said Rachelle Faroul, a 33-year-old black woman who was rejected twice by lenders when she tried to buy a brick row house close to Malcolm X Park in Philadelphia, where African Americans were 2.7 times as likely as whites to be denied a conventional mortgage.

In the 1930s, surveyors with the federal Home Owners’ Loan Corporation drew lines on maps and colored some neighborhoods red, deeming them “hazardous” for bank lending because of the presence of African Americans or European immigrants, especially Jews.

Redlining has been outlawed for half a century. And for the last 40 years, banks have had a legal obligation under the Community Reinvestment Act to solicit clients – borrowers and depositors – from all segments of their communities.

But in many places, Reveal found the law hasn’t made much difference.

The analysis – independently reviewed and confirmed by The Associated Press – showed black applicants were turned away at significantly higher rates than whites in 48 cities, Latinos in 25, Asians in nine and Native Americans in three. In Washington, D.C., the nation’s capital, Reveal found all four groups were significantly more likely to be denied a home loan than whites. …

The latest figures from the U.S. Census Bureau show the median net worth for an African American family is now $9,000, compared with $132,000 for a white family. Latino families did not fare much better at $12,000.

Obviously, the solution for blacks and Latinos being bad at saving money is for them to go more into debt. Why didn’t anybody ever think of this idea before (except for George W. Bush, Henry Cisneros, Angelo Mozilo, Kerry Killinger, Dick Fuld, etc.)?

Lenders and their trade organizations do not dispute the fact that they turn away people of color at rates far greater than whites. But they maintain that the disparity can be explained by two factors the industry has fought to keep hidden: the prospective borrowers’ credit history and overall debt-to-income ratio. They singled out the three-digit credit score – which banks use to determine whether a borrower is likely to repay a loan – as especially important in lending decisions. …

Credit score was not included because that information is not publicly available.

From a recent Taki’s Magazine column by me:

A recent academic study, “Immigrants and Mortgage Delinquency” by Zhenguo Lin, Yingchun Liu, and Jia Xie, found that in the crucial year 2009 Brooks’ dynamic, morally superior immigrants defaulted 3.6 times as often on their mortgages as us deplorable natives. American elites, such as George W. Bush and financier Angelo Mozilo, simply trusted immigrants too much.

Perhaps a dozen academic studies have come up with fairly similar results (e.g., nonwhites had much higher default rates than whites) about the Housing Bubble/Bust, but virtually nobody knows this about this huge event of the 21st Century. In fact, probably far more people consider it inconceivable.

 
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  1. Credit score was not included because that information is not publicly available.

    But studies that incorporate credit scores have been done. (That’s how we know blacks underperform their credit ratings.) So it is possible. Reveal and the AP would rather do (another) completely worthless study.

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  2. I have an idea. Why don’t the liberals and SJWs and of course the Democrats found a bank, self finance it and lend mortgage money to all these POC who are denied loans. I am sure that if they approached all the donors that gave Hillary at least a billion for her failed campaign they could get the seed money to start. I just can’t think of a proper name for this endeavor.

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    • Replies: @istevefan
    That sounds good, but it will still get FDIC insurance. Thus, when the inevitable bank failure occurs, it will be deemed "too big to fail" or "too diverse to fail", and the bailout will likely cause negative economic ripples for the rest of the economy.
    , @Art Deco
    I'll wager some of them held shares of Contrywide or WaMu (or bonds so issued).
    , @Stephen Paul Foster
    "I just can’t think of a proper name for this endeavor."

    How about: "Homes of any color for people of a certain color"?
    , @Brutusale
    It already exists. It's about as well-run as you'd imagine.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OneUnited_Bank
    , @Forbes
    Name? Last Chance Savings & Loan. It's far easier to complain (and beat the dead horse) about the supposed unfairness, than to provide a workable solution.

    FICO credit scores were introduced to overcome redlining, and racial (and other non-credit related) discrimination in lending.

    Yet, like crime rates, too many believe that equal behavioral outcomes are a staple of life. Sadly, it's not true. And unfortunately, too many believe that government can intervene to correct aberrant behavior in order to achieve equal outcomes--hence all the social engineering that arises from the blank slate post-modernists.
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  3. Credit score was not included because that information is not publicly available.

    By which they mean “that information would contradict our Narrative” … HTH

    What color are Asians? Invisible color?

    Asians contradict our Narratives. They must remain invisible.

    Uh, HTH.

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  4. This is one of my favorite liberal/Hollywood myths. Blacks just can’t get ahead because banks don’t want to make money. They are prejudiced against sure bets, if the sure bets are black.

    In America, which has more banks by leaps and bounds than any other country, maybe even more banks than the rest of the world combined, none is willing to make sure bets, if the bets are black. Meanwhile, no blacks have pooled together their savings to make sure bets on blacks. And Jews who in general express so much love of blacks, have no money at all to spare to make sure black bets.

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    • Replies: @Citizen of a Silly Country
    Yep, this logical argument pretty much destroys every race/gender myth, not that anyone cares. For all of these unfair inequalities (women in tech, blacks getting loans, Mexicans not becoming physicists, etc.) to perpetuate would require a conspiracy that no only includes evil white guys, but the "good guys" - blacks, women, Hispanics, Jews, Asians and woke whites.

    What these Cult of Equality people (they're not just leftists because the GOP believes the same thing) can't seem to figure out is that evil white guys don't control the hiring and firing of every last person in the country, nor do we control every last investment dollar, nor are we the CEO of every company - large and small - in the United States.

    There are women executives, Hispanic CEOs and woke white bankers, who presumably won't discriminate because 1) they think that it's wrong and 2) they don't want to lose money or promotions by not hiring the best people available or making very profitable deals. (Btw, this conspiracy theory also presumes that mean white gusy would rather lose money and promotions than be fair.)

    If evil white (but an East or South Asian) guys are blocking women from moving up in the tech, that would mean a surplus of very talented women programmers would be available. Smart companies and executives would snap them up, create better products at a cheaper price and crush the competition, thus causing misogynistic white males to lose their jobs and fade away.

    It's Darwinism at its finest.

    If evil white (but not Jewish) guys are blocking perfectly good blacks and Hispanics from getting loans, woke white bankers will step and make those profitable loans. This will increase their profits, allowing those banks to eventually overtake the evil, racists banks.

    This would happen in every field and in every way until mean white guys either figured out that they were wrong or were left unemployed and pointless.

    The fact that this Darwinian process doesn't happen shows that it's not evil whites keeping PoC and women down - again, not that anyone cares.
    , @AnotherDad

    This is one of my favorite liberal/Hollywood myths. Blacks just can’t get ahead because banks don’t want to make money. They are prejudiced against sure bets, if the sure bets are black.
     
    Excellent comment songbird.

    I'd throw in it's not just "one" myth. A huge swathe of the nonsense the left peddles--racism!, sexism!--is basically the assertion that markets are just not working. There are millions of blacks out there with decent incomes who've kept themselves out of the credit card hole and who've carefully saved up their down payment ... and racist loan officers are denying them loans, cause black. There are millions of gals who love tinkering with computers and just want to sit in an office all day drinking Mountain Dew and editing code, but Silicon Valley hiring managers won't hire them because they hate the thought of their bouncy breasts and bottoms corrupting their hallowed hallways.

    The mind reels.

    Back in real world America we're jammed packed with marketing pitches to blacks and women and businesses will do anything to make a buck, and will even loop over a hurdle or two to prove that they are fully PC compliant.
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  5. Orwell strike again.

    Because no one is allowed to argue in corporate and official publications that blacks and “Latinos” are worse people to loan money to that whites and Asians, there is no defense from the charge that it is “racism” or “systemic oppression” or “discrimination” preventing blacks and “Latinos” from getting loans at the same rates of Asians and whites.

    Until we are allowed to discuss in public and on TV and in court and in Congress that race and ethnicity are actually and causally connected to things such as violent crime or loan trustworthiness, we will continue to lose. Race is one of the main issues the left has used to push forward a ton of its goals since the 1960s, and they have denied us the viable defenses.

    It’s like a murder trial where A kills B during a fight and the judge bars A from arguing self-defense, even though there’s video evidence of B pulling out a gun and stating beforehand he was going to goad A into a fight so he could kill him. What are the odds A can escape a guilty verdict?

    A has four bad choices and no good ones: (1) plead guilty and throw himself on the mercy of the court; (2) try some convoluted alternate defense that will be too complicated to make sense to the average person involving a claim that he did not kill B even though B died by A’s hand; (3) blaming someone else; or (4) stubbornly claim self-defense even after the court finds him in contempt and tells the jury not to pay attention to A and physically has him gagged for saying it.

    Again, what are the odds A can escape a guilty verdict?

    What are the odds of winning an argument about racism when you can’t argue differences in race?

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    • Agree: Harry Baldwin
    • Replies: @cynthia curran
    There is a lot of foreclosures in LA and OC lately and there is lending to illegal immigrants again since they advertised to get people to lend money that speak Spanish. This time there are a lot more investors that scoop up the houses and eventually make them rentals. Most major cities in the US are now rental markets even Texas big cities like Austin and Houston are closed to having major rental markets since they have lots of Latinos.
    , @anonymous
    Rather than “race and ethnicity are actually and causally connected to things such as violent crime or loan trustworthiness,” how about “race and ethnicity are actually and statistically correlated to things such as violent crime or loan trustworthiness, we will continue to lose”? Those playing identity politics bear the burden of proof — don’t go tribal!
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  6. Read More
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  7. The problem with black home ownership is when you own a house, you’re de facto running a small business, and attention must be paid, every day, or you suffer the fiscal consequences directly, and sometimes dramatically. There’s a lot to say about timing, and judgement, when you own a home.

    Typically, black folks just ain’t down wit dat. They’ll let a relatively small problem turn into a massive problem, with no sense of urgency to rectify it. Next thing they know, they’re out on the street.

    You could have a mold issue that might cost a grand to fix, but if you let it go for a few years, it could take 100K to fix. Same goes for… you name it. Also, delaying gratification isn’t what too many black folks like to do, so when they want a flash car, new furniture, and giant flat screen, and have an option to refinance their loan to make it happen, they’ll tend to do it, despite the obvious consequences a couple of years later.

    American black culture is generally NOT congruent with home ownership.

    The manifestation of black culture comes from being slaves, and that’s why so many adhere to it to they very day. They enjoy being on welfare, blaming “massa” for not seeing to their needs. Employing “trickery” to get ahead. It’s the entire reason they were bamboozled into joining the Democratic party! To give up being a democrat would be to emancipate themselves psychologically at the most profound level, and they’re NOT ready for that yet. They’re just not. Even African and Haitian blacks point and laugh at American blacks, for good reason.

    When you see a grand exodus of American Blacks convert into card-carrying members of the Republican or even Libertarian party, you can take for granted that successful black home ownership will increase dramatically.

    Guaranteed.

    Until then, I’m afraid black folks complaining about “redlining” are just “Negroes talkin’ shit in the cotton fields.” Ain’t no need to pay them no mind no how.

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    • Agree: Jim Don Bob, Abe
    • Replies: @Art Deco
    About 46% of the black population lives in owner-occupied housing (v. 68% of the white population). Since the black population is less affluent and more urbanized, that's not terribly surprising.
    , @Olorin
    Absolutely agree with your point about home ownership/repairs/costs now vs later.

    There's another piece to this that never gets touched:

    All those houses/properties that Angelo Mozilo etc. handed out, and those who got them didn't maintain or let run down or trashed--what dollar value can we put on that destruction?

    How many nice neighborhoods, and neighbors, saw downturns in THEIR property valuations?

    How much crime came to those areas?

    How do we put a value on the destruction of real property?

    What damage was done to the tax base, in what areas?

    With blacks it's always what they deserve. Never what they get, squander, and cost others.
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  8. Groundhog Decade.

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    • Agree: ic1000
    • Replies: @TomSchmidt
    Zing! What a great encapsulation.
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  9. In the 1930s, surveyors with the federal Home Owners’ Loan Corporation drew lines on maps and colored some neighborhoods red, deeming them “hazardous” for bank lending because of the presence of African Americans or European immigrants, especially Jews.

    Small factual error here: it was actually Swiss immigrants who were considered bad credit risks, along with Canadians and of course Chinamen. The Canadians very sneakily paid with Canadian pennies.

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  10. Um, remember the housing crash of just a few years back? You could see those red notices on front doors not only in notorious neighborhoods, but in nice middle-class areas.

    Some people aren’t in a position to handle a mortgage, no matter how good their intentions may be. So… DON’T LET THEM HAVE ONE.

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    • Replies: @Daniel Williams
    I dunno. The ones who pay interest for a few years and then forfeit the asset are probably pretty popular with the banks.
    , @27 year old

    Um, remember the housing crash of just a few years back? You could see those red notices on front doors not only in notorious neighborhoods, but in nice middle-class areas.

    Some people aren’t in a position to handle a mortgage, no matter how good their intentions may be. So… DON’T LET THEM HAVE ONE.
     
    Hooah! And then they can PULL THEMSELVES UP BY THEIR BOOTSTRAPS.

    How about instead we fix it so that ordinary working people can conceivably buy property without a lifetime of debt? Or at minimum, fix it so ordinary working people can conceivably expect to maintain a job with a sufficient income for their whole working lives, so they can pay a mortgage.

    Rich conservatives love to look down their noses at people and say they're financially irresponsible. The plants all shut down and the jobs are outsourced and the service economy wages have been slashed by continuous immigration... but Joe Sixpack "can't handle a mortgage" because he's just a flakey idiot.

    There were so many foreclosures in "nice" neighborhoods because people had a choice, they could buy lower priced housing in school districts with lots of nonWhites and hope their kids didn't get beaten and raped, or they could take the funny money the nice man was offering them and buy a ridiculous McMansion surrounded by other White people.
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  11. “the prospective borrowers’ credit history and overall debt-to-income ratio. They singled out the three-digit credit score – which banks use to determine whether a borrower is likely to repay a loan – as especially important in lending decisions. ”

    Those whitey’s mathematical sense be hard for proggtards to defend so let’s stir our poc pets to action. lol

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  12. This modern-day redlining persisted in 61 metro areas even when controlling for applicants’ income, loan amount and neighborhood . . . .

    But what happened when they controlled for everything that mattered, i.e., creditworthiness?

    This is straightforward and intentional demonization of whites.

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    • Agree: AndrewR, TTSSYF
    • Replies: @Barnard
    That was the last paragraph, FICO scores are racist. Paying your bills on time is racist too.
    , @whorefinder
    See my comment above.
    , @guest
    "even when controlling for applicants' height, knowledge of Italian zombie movies, cereal preference, and sexual attractiveness to child predators..."
    , @William Badwhite
    "This is straightforward and intentional demonization of whites."

    Why would a guy named AARON GLANTZ do such a thing?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aaron_Glantz#/media/File:Aaron_Glantz_(14266067539)_(cropped).jpg
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  13. I think if we stopped noticing these school shootings, they would go away. Front-page news coverage just encourages them.

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    • Replies: @Paleo Liberal
    There is much truth to that.

    Ever hear of the Werther Effect?

    The Werther Effect shows that when there are highly publicized suicides, the suicide rate goes up. If the suicide is a solo event, solo suicides go up. If the suicide involves taking the lives of innocents, such as crashing an airplane with passengers, then suicides involving taking the lives of innocents go up.

    Monkey see, monkey do.

    It makes perfect sense that there would be copycat killers. Look at the protection Ted Kennedy had.
    , @Anonymous
    As soon as we have a Democrat president again, that'll happen.
    , @J.Ross
    Would you allow yourself to be blamed for a mass shooting if the alternative was going to prison as a pedophile? Screengrabs purporting to be of Nick Cruz's YouTube channel show lots of kid's stuff, including the infamous "finger family" vids. There's a very small amount of stuff a teenager would be into and the rest is all for toddlers. The brother of the alleged Vegas shooter was arrested for child pornography, the guy who rammed a road-blocker with a car in Charlottesville was connected to child pornography, the Scottish guy who did a school shooting there a long time ago was kicked out of the British Army for possession of child pornography, the guy who shot Steve Scalise was a massively abusive foster parent. I have never seen this brought up in the mainstream press as a connecting factor. One of the arguments against "To Catch A Predator" was that the confrontations reliably generated "last stand" type violence.
    , @Jenner Ickham Errican
    Some say it’s best for the news media to conceal the names and faces of these types of killers, but I disagree. Pattern recognition can be a useful thing, even if the sample sizes are quite small. From the Daily Mail:

    Student Adam Habona, who lived next door to Cruz for six months described him as a violent loner who stole from neighbors and hurled coconuts at their homes.
     
    Chris Kattan as Mr. Peepers warned us years ago. The similar behavior and resemblance is uncanny:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kK82bEEFPck



    http://a57.foxnews.com/media2.foxnews.com/BrightCove/694940094001/2018/02/15/896/504/694940094001_5734677289001_5734662925001-vs.jpg?ve=1&tl=1
    , @Mr. Anon
    It certainly doesn't help for the President of the United States to go visit the affected place, as Obama did in Newtown, and now Trump seems likely to do in Parkland, and as he did in Las Vegas. Now every homicidal loser knows he can conjure up a Presidential visit.

    I agree with you - better to keep these things under wraps as much as possible. Or perhaps the perpetrators, when and if they are caught and convicted, should be simply beaten to death by the victims' relatives on live TV.
    , @Hapalong Cassidy
    On the other hand, it does seem that these events are not dominating the news cycle for as long or as intense as they did in the past, paradoxically because they happen more often. Off the top of my head, I can’t remember a single thing about the San Antonio shooter, yet I still easily remember the names of Dylan Klebold and Eric Harris, who killed fewer people nearly 20 years ago.
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  14. I recently refinanced my house. This was the first time since I lost some rental properties in the Great Recession.

    The criteria for lending are MUCH more strict now.

    In the old days, not only was the loan officer paid based on how many loans he processed, but the bank made a lot of money off each loan. They would immediately sell them off. There was absolutely no relationship between the people approving the loan and the people who owned the loan. So the banks were in a position where giving risky loans was temporarily profitable, leaving others to hold the bag.

    Rules are stricter now. You really have to prove assets, income, creditworthiness, and all that other stuff. No more wink wink nudge nudge we will tell us what we want to hear and we will give you the loans.

    Any study which omits the factors the banks actually use to make their loans is flawed beyond recognition.

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  15. @Reg Cæsar
    I think if we stopped noticing these school shootings, they would go away. Front-page news coverage just encourages them.

    There is much truth to that.

    Ever hear of the Werther Effect?

    The Werther Effect shows that when there are highly publicized suicides, the suicide rate goes up. If the suicide is a solo event, solo suicides go up. If the suicide involves taking the lives of innocents, such as crashing an airplane with passengers, then suicides involving taking the lives of innocents go up.

    Monkey see, monkey do.

    It makes perfect sense that there would be copycat killers. Look at the protection Ted Kennedy had.

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    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    Ever hear of the Werther Effect?
     
    I think of it every time I see one of those candies.

    http://www.groovycandies.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/650x/040ec09b1e35df139433887a97daa66f/w/e/werthers-sugar-free-minis.jpg

    Ayds wasn't immune to unfortunate homophones, and disappeared. But no one in this country reads Goethe, so Werther's is safe.


    https://www.oddee.com/wp-content/uploads/_media/imgs/articles2/a96682_ayds.jpg

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  16. “Credit score was not included because that information is not publicly available.”

    I laughed out loud when I read the final line. Oh, you weren’t controlling for the thing that the decision is based on? LMAO

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    • Replies: @Alec Leamas (hard at work)


    “Credit score was not included because that information is not publicly available.”
     
    I laughed out loud when I read the final line. Oh, you weren’t controlling for the thing that the decision is based on? LMAO

     

    Yeah, I think pretty much anyone over 25 reading the piece would notice the dog that didn't bark.

    It's amazing that they think they can still get away with this nonsense.
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  17. @ben tillman

    This modern-day redlining persisted in 61 metro areas even when controlling for applicants’ income, loan amount and neighborhood . . . .
     
    But what happened when they controlled for everything that mattered, i.e., creditworthiness?

    This is straightforward and intentional demonization of whites.

    That was the last paragraph, FICO scores are racist. Paying your bills on time is racist too.

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  18. Anon • Disclaimer says:

    Who’s pushing this? The progs or Wall Street?

    Do only progs want another round of easy loans to the hoi polloi of color or is Wall Street itching for another housing bubble? Why should it worry? It can get another bail out when it all goes kablooey.

    Obama was a tool of bankers, and he just let them off the hook. He failed to do anything fundamental, but then, he was totally controlled by bankers.
    And Americans were willing to let it go because US provided them with safety-nets through hard times.

    These safety-nets are good but have made Americans soft. So, even as they weren’t happy with the bailouts, they just let it slide.

    But imagine if there hadn’t been vast safety-nets in 2008 and 2009. Suppose the economy had imploded totally like in 1929 and so many driven to desperation. A real revolution may have been in the offing.

    In a way, solving the problem made the problem worse in some ways. Because of New Deal reforms, the US economy has been able to weather economic stress much better. But it also meant most Americans just trusted and left it up to the system to do what is ‘right’.

    So, the elites get away with stuff over and over and over while most Americans are fixated on what’s on TV.

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  19. @ben tillman

    This modern-day redlining persisted in 61 metro areas even when controlling for applicants’ income, loan amount and neighborhood . . . .
     
    But what happened when they controlled for everything that mattered, i.e., creditworthiness?

    This is straightforward and intentional demonization of whites.

    See my comment above.

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  20. Steve,

    It had been noted by Milton Friedman that while mortgage denial rate were higher for minorities than non-minorities their eventual default rates were the same. Thus proving that the mortgage adjudication procedures were fair and nondiscriminatory.

    While I have had some problems with Friedman’s unfettered economic liberalism, I have never had problems with his unfettered logic!

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    • Replies: @guest
    Why are you bringing logic into it?

    Look, either you accept the Basic Principle of Equality--i.e. in a just society everybody would have these same status,* therefore any differences must be the result of evil social conditions--or you don't. If you don't, you are pariah.

    *Catch: not actually equal status, but equality controlled according to certain predetermined value judgements. Which are prone to change every half-second. Right now, a person's status can't be different because of their race (unless they're white or NAMs), religion (unless they're Christian in some cases), national origin (unless you guessed it), creed (unless...), sexual perversion, sexual identity, sexual sexy-sex-sex-sex (sex), and so forth.

    But there are all sorts of factors that can justly cause people to find themselves in superior or inferior positions. Diversity Pokemon Points, for instance. Which stomps all over the categories we set up above, but whatever. "Merit," also, whatever that is. Unless people decide they just don't like you, in which case merit is out the window.

    Somehow, every quality possessed by the ruling class is a-okay. Weird coincidence, I know.

    , @res
    Does anyone here have a good study for mortgage denial/interest/default rates by race?

    This seems like a reasonable look at the issue from 1998: http://www.csus.edu/indiv/c/chalmersk/econ251fa12/evidenceofdiscriminationinmortgagelending.pdf
    But notes the following (emphasis mine, probably a valuable clue):

    Somewhat surprisingly, very little information on default rates by race is available. In one review of die default literature that went back to die 1960s, Quercia and Stegman (1992) briefly mention only one article that used race as an explanatory variable. According to that study by Evans et al. (1985), blacks had 7.5 percent more defaults than whites, but the difference in expected losses was only 2.4 percent. A more recent study, discussed in greater detail below, found that raw default rates on loans insured by the Federal Housing Administration were 2 percentage points higher for black borrowers than for white borrowers, even after other key characteristics of the borrower and the neighborhood were taken into account (Berkovec et al., 1996b, p. 20). If the evidence of higher default rates among minority groups holds up in future research, it would provide a motive for lenders to engage in profit-motivated statistical discrimination against minorities.
     
    The 1985 Evans study is online at http://www.jstor.org/stable/40472807 and can be read for free with registration (also available at libgen with DOI 10.2307/40472807). They advocate using expected loss (percentage) as a metric, which seems like a good idea to me, but IMHO the numbers cited above provide an excellent example of statistical obfuscation (but are easily explained by being easiest to extract from the regression coefficients on page 80). Looking at Table 1 in Evans we see that default rates range from 2.56% to 14.67% (!) while the expected loss rates range from 0.558% to 6.453%. The lower rates of loss mean that the absolute rate differences quoted make the loss rate difference seem smaller. It would be much better to express the racial rate differences as ratios to compare the rates of default and expected loss. For a quick and dirty way of doing this I set all of the other variables to 0 and compared the B/W differences in P (prob of default) and E (expected loss):
    var Black White Ratio
    P 12.58% 5.11% 2.46
    E 3.6% 1.25% 2.88
    So we see that for at least one case the B/W difference is actually worse for expected loss (contrast to the impression given by the numbers I quoted above). Changing the Loan to Value Ratio (largest coefficients after race) from 0 (90-95%) to 1 (over 95%) gives
    var Black White Ratio
    P 8.13% 1.19% 6.83
    E 2.56% 0.21% 12.2
    Ouch! I am surprised that increasing the LtV decreases the default/expected loss rates so if anyone wants to double check please do so. Any ideas for explaining this oddity?
    Table 2 and Figure 2 give another metric (semivariance) and compare it to expected loss.
    Table 3 gives a very interesting look at expected loss and semivariance compared for each variable. Part III covers race and differs from my conclusions above (not sure why, perhaps "When Paired Comparisons are Controlled for Other Risk Factors"?). The Expected Loss ratios range from 1.8 to 7.
    Part II covers LtV and gives the expected "higher LtVs are riskier" so I am not sure why the regression coefficient is as it is.
    I highly recommend Table 3 for anyone who wants a (admittedly very old) look at how risk compares for Loan Size/LtV/City/Race differences.
    That paper seems like a model of clarity of presentation to me. I just wish they had also included average interest rates so we could see how those corresponded to losses.

    Back to the first link, page 3/49 has some discussion of the importance of which variables are controlled for.

    I think this excerpt from the conclusion summarizes the issue nicely:

    While it is not clear whether the discrimination that emerges from the Boston Fed study is attributable to a taste for discrimination or to profit-motivated statistical discrimination, my guess is that a substantial part of it is statistical discrimination driven by the drive for profits. If so, market forces are not likely to eliminate it.
     
    P.S. whorefinder's comment 5 pretty well nails it.
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  21. By the way, if blacks and browns are People of Color, but whites and Asians are not, then what color are Asians?

    Invisible color?

    Asian Americans, in particular those of East Asian descent, are one of the smallest minority groups in America and are undoubtedly people of color. They’re also the most openly discriminated against group in this country, as the recent lawsuits against Harvard or our general willingness to tolerate anti-Asian bigotry shows.

    Sadly, the racist mainstream media consistently ignores East Asians in our national discourse on race. When will these so called progressives own up to their hate?

    Read More
    • Troll: Twinkie
    • Replies: @Cloudbuster
    They are also one of the most affluent groups in the country. So sorry if we don't feel your pain. You might as well be Jews.
    , @Pat Boyle
    What color are we?

    Bertrand Russell was once denied entrance to some place or other because it was only for 'colored people'. He said, "We are colored. We are pink."
    , @Twinkie

    They’re also the most openly discriminated against group in this country,
     
    This is a straight-up lie.
    , @William Badwhite
    "our general willingness to tolerate anti-Asian bigotry "

    You could always go home.
    , @Buffalo Joe
    Yan, if you did a photo line up , using just Asians and Blacks dressed in medical garb and asked people of every race to pick a doctor from the line up, how many would pick a black doctor over and Asian doctor.
    , @ben tillman

    Asian Americans, in particular those of East Asian descent, are one of the smallest minority groups in America and are undoubtedly people of color. They’re also the most openly discriminated against group in this country. . . .
     
    Not even close. Whites are the ones who get screwed openly.
    , @ben tillman
    dupe
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  23. I read this very long AP article in the paper (yes, I’m old) this morning and kept looking for the key to it all – the default rate. That’s the proof in the pudding but that was never mentioned. It doesn’t matter what the loan approval rate was for various races but how they managed their debt. If the default rates are fairly similar then it proves the banks know what they are doing. If the default rates are way off then there is a problem.

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  24. @Reg Cæsar
    I think if we stopped noticing these school shootings, they would go away. Front-page news coverage just encourages them.

    As soon as we have a Democrat president again, that’ll happen.

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  25. The “Case Study: Philadelphia” is one of those “There’s got to be a “Rest of the Story’” things. It paints multiple banks as so ridiculously Satanic (not to mention irrational to their own self interest) that it reminded me of the “A Rape on Campus” anedote where four of bloodied Jackie’s male and female friends suddenly decide they shouldn’t call the police because it might tank their chances of getting invited to parties.

    Lenders and their trade organizations do not dispute the fact that they turn away people of color at rates far greater than whites. But they maintain that the disparity can be explained by two factors the industry has fought to keep hidden: the prospective borrowers’ credit history and overall debt-to-income ratio. They singled out the three-digit credit score – which banks use to determine whether a borrower is likely to repay a loan – as especially important in lending decisions.

    At the same time, studies have found proprietary credit score algorithms to have a discriminatory impact on borrowers of color.

    Disparate impact!

    The “decades-old credit scoring model” currently used “does not take into account consumer data on rent, utility, and cellphone bill payments,” Republican Sen. Tim Scott of South Carolina wrote in August, when he unveiled a bill to require the federal government to vet credit standards used for residential mortgages. “This exclusion disproportionately hurts African-Americans, Latinos, and young people who are otherwise creditworthy.”

    Here’s one explanation of credit scores, which would seem to take into account utility payments:

    https://www.thebalance.com/how-credit-scores-work-315541

    The FICO credit score looks at how much debt you have, how you’ve repaid in the past, and more. Scores fall anywhere between 300 and 850 and are made up of the following components:

    35% Payment History – have you missed payments or defaulted on loans?
    30% Amounts Owed – how much do you owe (and are you maxed out)?
    15% Length of Credit – is borrowing new to you?
    10% New Credit – have you applied for numerous loans in the recent past?
    10% Type of Credit – do you have a healthy mix of different types of debt (auto, home, credit cards, and others)?

    They couldn’t find one expert or actuary to interview who would speculate on why, perhaps, the couple in the article, or blacks in general, might get approved less frequently? Offer anonymity — they do that to sources all the time.

    Back to Philadelphia:

    When Faroul applied for a loan in April 2016, she thought she was an ideal candidate. She holds a degree from Northwestern University, had a good credit score and estimates she was making $60,000 a year while teaching computer programming as a contractor for Rutgers University. Still, her initial loan application was denied by Philadelphia Mortgage Advisors, an independent broker that made nearly 90 percent of its loans to whites in 2015 and 2016.

    “I’m sorry,” broker Angela Tobin wrote to Faroul in an email. Faroul’s contract income wasn’t consistent enough, she said. So Faroul got a full-time job at the University of Pennsylvania managing a million-dollar grant.

    But that still wasn’t enough. When she tried again a year later, this time at Santander Bank, a Spanish firm with U.S. headquarters in Boston, the process dragged on for months. Eventually, an unpaid $284 electric bill appeared on Faroul’s credit report. She paid the bill right away, but it still tanked her credit score, and the bank said it couldn’t move forward.

    Degree from Northwestern: All a college degree is, is signalling to employers. Banks care about jobs, employers care about degrees. But what was her degree in? Computer science or computer engineering, maybe? Wow, a black and a woman with a computer engineering degree. Impressive! Uh, why isn’t she working as a developer? Google is looking for black, lesbian developers, I hear. So something fishy is going on here.

    The article mentioned $60,000 income. The bank mentioned “inconsistent income.” So Mr. “investigative reporter” from The Center for Investigative Reporting, here’s where your ask your subject for more detail. Tax returns for the past 5 or 10 years. You owe that to the banks you’re about to defame. Ask for college degree and major. Does the school verify it. Ask why she seems to be underemployed for her major, if she did in fact study computer science rather than critical race theory. Why did she hop from computer teaching to grant management rather than to a better computer industry job? How long had she worked as a grant manager? If less than 2 years, the bank is going to want to wait a bit.

    There’s still a lot of weird stuff in that story, like why a part-time grocery clerk got a loan. It’s all so strange that it was not ready for prime time in an article until the reporter untangled all this stuff.

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    • Agree: E. Rekshun
    • Replies: @guest
    "a discriminatory impact"

    This is why I reread Politics and the English Language constantly.
    , @27 year old

    You owe that to the banks you’re about to defame.
     
    Oh yeah, the poor banks, won't someone please think of the banks? Help! Help! I'm being defamed!

    This article isnt about banks. It's about White "racism". The financial mumbo jumbo is just the excuse. This is good old fashioned hate speech against Whites.
    , @donut
    "Degree from Northwestern"

    What kind of student loan debt was she carrying ? And yeah , what was her degree in ?
    , @ScarletNumber

    [Santander Bank] said it couldn’t move forward.
     
    To defend Faroul, I don't like when people and companies pretend like they have no agency. Santander could have moved forward with her loan, they just chose not to. Also, banks make money by making loans, so they shouldn't act like they are doing you a favor by making you one.
    , @Barnard
    Tim Scott wants utility companies and landlords to report whether or not every customer has paid their bill on time to credit reporting agencies so they can include it in FICO scores? What a waste of time for them, plus it wouldn't have helped in the example the AP reporter used because she had a utility collection.

    Faroul applies for loans from Philadelphia Mortgage Advisors and Santander Bank, I doubt she did her regular banking with either of those banks. Why didn't she apply with Wells Fargo? They have branches all over the metro area and love to talk about how committed they are to minority lending. Did she even talk to someone at her regular bank about getting a mortgage?
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  26. Credit score was not included because that information is not publicly available.

    Sheesh. A better statistician would have at least made their fraud less obvious.

    Kai Ryssdal gave this story a fair bit of coverage on NPR’s “Marketplace” program today. I smell the start of a coordinated offensive…

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    • Replies: @whorefinder
    Journolist never dies, it just goes underground.
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  27. …two factors the industry has fought to keep hidden: the prospective borrowers’ credit history and overall debt-to-income ratio.

    Woo! We fought to keep those hidden! We must be evil bastards!

    Those are confidential — for the privacy of borrowers! — and they explain — completely — why certain groups get turned down more.

    They have shitty credit (because they don’t pay their debts) and they try to borrow more than their incomes will pay for (because they are stupid).

    But this is all obvious except to the people reading Aaron Glantz.

    When you look at credit scores, you get the strong impression that they they are analogous to the bell curve for IQ. You can tell a lot about a person from is credit score, and the sad thing is, most people don’t have very good ones, just as most people are of only mediocre thinking-ability. Sad but true.

    It doesn’t take much to build good credit. Just borrow a little and pay it back on schedule. Grow that over time, and you will have a good score. Pay your bills. Amazingly, a lot of people stink at that. Some races more than others.

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    • Replies: @guest
    "One factor which the urology industry has fought to keep hidden: the size and beauty (or ugliness) of their patients' penises."
    , @whorefinder

    When you look at credit scores, you get the strong impression that they they are analogous to the bell curve for IQ. You can tell a lot about a person from is credit score, and the sad thing is, most people don’t have very good ones, just as most people are of only mediocre thinking-ability. Sad but true.

    It doesn’t take much to build good credit. Just borrow a little and pay it back on schedule. Grow that over time, and you will have a good score. Pay your bills. Amazingly, a lot of people stink at that. Some races more than others.When you work for the Center for Investigative Reporting, you bring to the table the assumption that other people are boneheads and you understand their business better than they do.
     

    True to a point. These days, many mid-wits---defined by Vox Day as people with slightly-higher-than-average IQ---often have an overinflated sense of their IQ and worth, and thus have taken out very expensive loans for grad school, such as law school or masters programs or j-school, that the job market can't help them pay back but that everyone in the school told them was feasible.

    It's not surprising to know a few 105-115 folks crushed by huge amounts of debt that they stupidly took out on Uncle Sam's programs in their 20s. One reason student loan forgiveness and free college have become issues is because many a reporter and his under-employed buddies find the topics personally poignant.

    The phrase "over-educated and underemployed" is well known, as is the joke about baristas having Phds. and such.

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  28. OT: Decay and Oligarchization of Society:

    https://www.rt.com/usa/418942-us-recruits-training-overhaul/

    The US Army training program will be overhauled with a focus on discipline and physical exercises after multiple complaints about new recruits. The Army will drop hand grenade throwing and land navigation qualifications. “What leaders have observed in general is they believe that there is too much of a sense of entitlement, questioning of lawful orders, not listening to instruction, too much of a buddy mentality with NCOs [non-commissioned officers] and officers and a lot of tardiness being late to formation and duties,” Frost said.

    A number of qualification requirements will be dispensed with altogether, as it was deemed too time-consuming to train the recruits to pass them. Among the cuts are hand grenade throwing and a land navigation course. The poor performance in these fields, according to Frost, might be related to the poor overall physique of the recruits and a lack of outdoors activities during their childhood.

    https://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/02/15/fcc_chairman_investigation/

    Since taking over as chair in January 2017, Ajit Pai has made big play of his effort to cut back rules in an effort to bring back “light touch” regulation. But lawmakers are suspicious of a number of decisions that directly benefitted one media group – Sinclair Broadcasting.

    The FCC is due to decide on a $3.9bn merger between Sinclair and the smaller Tribune Media that would give the merged company an enormous media footprint across the United States, reaching 72 per cent of the population.

    The proposed deal was only made possible thanks to rule changes proposed and passed by Pai, not all of which fitted his “light touch” template.

    ….

    And the final piece of usual decision-making by Pai that had a direct, positive impact on Sinclair’s business was an unexpected decision by the FCC to authorize the transmission of so-called “Next Gen TV” using the ATSC 3.0 standard.

    So what was the rush, and why did the FCC push this new standard? It may be no coincidence that one of the biggest advocates for ATSC 3.0 is none other than David Smith, CEO of Sinclair Broadcasting.

    Sinclair holds several patents related to the standard – and stands to make billions of dollars if it becomes the default system for TV broadcast in the United States.

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    • Replies: @Buffalo Joe
    El, Gato, Grenade throwing 101, Pull Pin. Throw grenade forward, away from you and everyone else. Duck and cover. However, tough to do with a limp wrist or if you throw like a girl.
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  29. OT, fyi for you, Mr. Sailer:

    Does saving more lives lead to overpopulation?

    Bill Gates
    Published on Feb 13, 2018
    Bill Gates explains his answer to the tough question from this year’s Annual Letter: “Does saving kids’ lives lead to overpopulation?”
    Learn more at http://b-gat.es/2BQfnC6

    THE BOGUS “DEMOGRAPHIC TRANSITION” THEORY

    The theory is simple: the increase in well-being derived from economic development leads to a decrease in fertility.

    In her book, Population Politics: The Choices That Shape Our Future, Virginia D. Abernethy systematically destroys the credibility of this theory. When researchers closely examined the basis for this theory in the early 1970s, they discovered that the early proponents had made assumptions about the industrialized countries that were historically dead wrong. Actually, the fertility transition to small families had occurred in the midst of desperate poverty and very high infant mortality in Europe.293 In a Wall Street Journal article, “Experience Teaches Population Control Can Precede Development, and Spur It,” published just before the Cairo Population Conference in September 1994, Tim Carrington cites compelling evidence that this theory is bogus. He writes that the view “Development is the best contraceptive” was widely held 20 years earlier. However, much has changed: “…there is broad agreement that the old maxim can be fully retired. Its weakness lies in the implicit suggestion that efforts to reduce fertility work only after a nation has lifted itself out of poverty. Reality suggests otherwise.”293a

    http://www.population-security.org/24-CH16.html#11

    The population policy of only 1 child for each couple was proposed for the longterm benefit of China and its people and because of the urgent demand of the 4 modernizations. The indication of the achievement of the 4 modernizations by the end of the 20th century is a per capita income of 1000 United States dollars. To reach the $1000 figure, the per capita income needs to be increased 3-fold. This is a difficult task, and to realize it effort must be placed on both material production and population control. Problems that may result from the advocation of only 1 child for each couple are reviewed. The way to promote the exeuction of the policy of planned control of population growth is to apply ideological education as the major method and to integrate it with economical and administrative measures.

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12311034

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    • Replies: @Samuel Skinner
    Yeah, demographic transition is BS. The norm for women is to have between 4-8 children; traditional groups in the west easily manage this. What decreases fertility is feminism, not wealth. The best example of this is Saudi Arabia. It had tons of oil money but TFR has only dropped recently. And what would you know, the society is becoming more feminist- now women outnumber men on college campuses there.

    The thing people don't want to talk about is humans are like the Moties in A Mote in God's Eye- it is the default to have a high growth rate when resources are plentiful. This should be obvious from the fact evolution is true, but tragically high IQ appears to be about making explanations for stupider and stupider beliefs.
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  30. @Reg Cæsar
    I think if we stopped noticing these school shootings, they would go away. Front-page news coverage just encourages them.

    Would you allow yourself to be blamed for a mass shooting if the alternative was going to prison as a pedophile? Screengrabs purporting to be of Nick Cruz’s YouTube channel show lots of kid’s stuff, including the infamous “finger family” vids. There’s a very small amount of stuff a teenager would be into and the rest is all for toddlers. The brother of the alleged Vegas shooter was arrested for child pornography, the guy who rammed a road-blocker with a car in Charlottesville was connected to child pornography, the Scottish guy who did a school shooting there a long time ago was kicked out of the British Army for possession of child pornography, the guy who shot Steve Scalise was a massively abusive foster parent. I have never seen this brought up in the mainstream press as a connecting factor. One of the arguments against “To Catch A Predator” was that the confrontations reliably generated “last stand” type violence.

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  31. @Buffalo Joe
    I have an idea. Why don't the liberals and SJWs and of course the Democrats found a bank, self finance it and lend mortgage money to all these POC who are denied loans. I am sure that if they approached all the donors that gave Hillary at least a billion for her failed campaign they could get the seed money to start. I just can't think of a proper name for this endeavor.

    That sounds good, but it will still get FDIC insurance. Thus, when the inevitable bank failure occurs, it will be deemed “too big to fail” or “too diverse to fail”, and the bailout will likely cause negative economic ripples for the rest of the economy.

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    • Replies: @Art Deco
    Again, the banks received bridge loans, which they paid back with interest. The institutions actually bailed out were the GSEs, the auto industry components, and AIG.

    What actually happened was that Bank of America bought Countrywide. Whatever they anticipated, they discovered that 46% of Countrywide's loan portfolio was sour. B o A might have been able to swallow that. What they proved unable to swallow without assistance was Merrill Lynch.
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  32. @International Jew

    Credit score was not included because that information is not publicly available.
     
    Sheesh. A better statistician would have at least made their fraud less obvious.

    Kai Ryssdal gave this story a fair bit of coverage on NPR's "Marketplace" program today. I smell the start of a coordinated offensive...

    Journolist never dies, it just goes underground.

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  33. So when does credit scoring come under attack as “racist,” when our institutions insist on gathering more and more information about the population under the paradigm of Big Data?

    I can just imagine the reaction to the introduction of something like China’s social credit system into this country, because that will really draw attention to the racial spectrum of functionality as blacks and Hispanics rack up the low-reputation scores according to objective metrics.

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  34. https://scholarship.law.duke.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=3912&context=dlj

    Blacks are bad with money. Not so bad. The author admits the problem is intractable. Even though credit scores were a reform, they are implicitly biased.

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    • Replies: @guest
    How can they be so bad at money? Look how much they have to spare on making it rain over dancers?

    Money, money, money, money, money...
    Talk about cash money, money
    Talk about cash money
    Dollar bills, y'all!
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  35. John Leo says reporters maintain in their head a set of story templates. They get things wrong in predictable ways. You look at this guy’s background (basically red-haze), you have a fair idea he’s not a quant and it never occurred to him to try to ascertain what the delinquency and default rates are among subpopulations of borrowers. You also have a fair idea that it hardly occurred to him that it’s not in the interest of banks to refuse to ink deals which an actuarial calculation indicates will earn them an income stream. When you work for the Center for Investigative Reporting, you bring to the table the assumption that other people are boneheads and you understand their business better than they do.

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    • Agree: Johann Ricke
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  36. then what color are Asians?

    Invisible color?

    Lots of Japanese are just plain white-skinned. No yellow hue. Just pasty. Yoko Ono was pasty. At least in the limited sunshine environments in London & NY she inhabited.

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    • Replies: @Kylie
    Your duplicitous use of the past tense--twice--gave me hope that The Screech was dead. I hastened to google her. She's not.

    You *******.
    , @üeljang
    Asian pasty ≠ European white.

    Japanese people who have remained out of direct sunlight for a certain duration have an opaque, deathly pallor about them, like that of dead tissue of the stratum corneum that has become sodden by soaking in water. If they proceed to enjoy a day lounging on the Shōnan beach, almost all of them will end up with the skin tone of a Cambodian at least temporarily. If they have enjoyed their day off so much that they take up the habit of riding the waves every Sunday, their skin will end up being not much different from the average Indian (though probably never so dark as the darkest Dravidian or tribal folk).

    The "blushy," translucent skin tone of many Europeans is extremely rare among Japanese, though a great number of them will apply rouge (and avoid sunlight like the devil) in an attempt to imitate it.

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  37. @istevefan
    That sounds good, but it will still get FDIC insurance. Thus, when the inevitable bank failure occurs, it will be deemed "too big to fail" or "too diverse to fail", and the bailout will likely cause negative economic ripples for the rest of the economy.

    Again, the banks received bridge loans, which they paid back with interest. The institutions actually bailed out were the GSEs, the auto industry components, and AIG.

    What actually happened was that Bank of America bought Countrywide. Whatever they anticipated, they discovered that 46% of Countrywide’s loan portfolio was sour. B o A might have been able to swallow that. What they proved unable to swallow without assistance was Merrill Lynch.

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    • Replies: @AnotherDad
    Art he said "fail". There were banks that failed. I had a CD in one--IndyMac--because it paid top of the market interest rates. It was doing all sorts of subprime and b.s. lending in SoCal. FDIC had to close it up, auction off the assets--most became OneWestBank--then wind down the garbage. It cost the taxpayers real money. I'm sure there were others.
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  38. @Buffalo Joe
    I have an idea. Why don't the liberals and SJWs and of course the Democrats found a bank, self finance it and lend mortgage money to all these POC who are denied loans. I am sure that if they approached all the donors that gave Hillary at least a billion for her failed campaign they could get the seed money to start. I just can't think of a proper name for this endeavor.

    I’ll wager some of them held shares of Contrywide or WaMu (or bonds so issued).

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  39. then what color are Asians?

    Invisible color?

    Inconvenient color, more like.

    Inconvenient to the left’s claims of white institutional racism, oppression, etc.

    Also inconvenient to alt-right’s claims of white supremacy, exceptionalism, etc.

    Just.inconvenient.all.around. Hence, invisible. But, not the way Hispanics are.

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    • Replies: @Daniel Williams

    Also inconvenient to alt-right’s claims of white supremacy, exceptionalism, etc.
     
    You've been misinformed about the alt-right. We don't think any of those things about Asians; we wish Asians would go about their business in Asia and not trouble us in our nations.
    , @Samuel Skinner

    Also inconvenient to alt-right’s claims of white supremacy, exceptionalism, etc.
     
    Historically white supremacists recognized that Asians were better then them; that was the reason for excluding the Chinese and Japanese from immigrating to the United States. The yellow peril was about the threat Asians would pose if they worked together like Europeans did.
    , @Citizen of a Silly Country

    Also inconvenient to alt-right’s claims of white supremacy, exceptionalism, etc.
     
    Not sure what you're reading, but the alt-right is not about white supremacy. It's about race realism and white identity. Difference racial groups evolved to emphasize different traits, somewhat like different breeds of dogs. Is a mastiff "superior" to a rat terrier? It's a ridiculous question.

    Now, if you ask which dog would be better at hunting down and killing rats and other rodents on a farm, I can say that a rat terrier is superior at that task. It's all a question of the environment and the job.

    Alt-righter generally want to be allowed to speak honestly about race and for their people - whites - to be allowed to not get wiped from the earth as a people.

    If there's anything alt-righters do believe is superior, it's the nationstate over multi-racial countries. I don't care what blacks or Asians do as long as they do it in their our country. Different peoples should be allowed to have their own homelands.
    , @bomag

    Also inconvenient to alt-right’s claims of white supremacy, exceptionalism, etc.
     
    ???

    The alt-right's claim is race realism, wherever the chips may fall.
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  40. “two factors the industry has fought to keep hidden”

    Do they mean they’ve fought to keep the private information of individuals hidden? Okay, but why bring that up?

    If they mean the industry has fought to keep the general fact that credit history and your debt-to-income ratio can affect how they lend money, ha! That’s a lie.

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  41. Why are people allowed to blatantly misuse terms so long as they modify them with the words “thatmodern-day?”

    “Modern-day redlining” is not actually redlining. But they’ve gone through a lot of trouble making sure people know “redlining” is bad. It’d be a shame to waste that effort just because it’s not happening.

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  42. @Reg Cæsar
    I think if we stopped noticing these school shootings, they would go away. Front-page news coverage just encourages them.

    Some say it’s best for the news media to conceal the names and faces of these types of killers, but I disagree. Pattern recognition can be a useful thing, even if the sample sizes are quite small. From the Daily Mail:

    Student Adam Habona, who lived next door to Cruz for six months described him as a violent loner who stole from neighbors and hurled coconuts at their homes.

    Chris Kattan as Mr. Peepers warned us years ago. The similar behavior and resemblance is uncanny:

    [MORE]

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    • Replies: @whorefinder
    Chris Kattan is one of those guys very popular with SNL-insiders but who never got over with the audience. Will Farrell seemed to have a particular connection with him.
    , @anonymous
    Fetal alcohol spectrum disorder (FASD). Not very funny but very sad. I’m wondering about his adoption.
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  43. @Rosamond Vincy
    Um, remember the housing crash of just a few years back? You could see those red notices on front doors not only in notorious neighborhoods, but in nice middle-class areas.

    Some people aren't in a position to handle a mortgage, no matter how good their intentions may be. So... DON'T LET THEM HAVE ONE.

    I dunno. The ones who pay interest for a few years and then forfeit the asset are probably pretty popular with the banks.

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    • Replies: @AndrewR
    I don't know the actual data, but I have a strong hunch that the average foreclosed house is damaged and/or poorly maintained enough as to offset the profit that the bank will have made off of interest and the eventual resale of the house. Plus, if I'm not mistaken, there can ve a long time elapsed between mortgage default and foreclosure to say nothing of resale.
    , @Flip
    Banks don't want foreclosed properties. If there truly is equity in the property, the borrower works out a sale before a foreclosure takes places.
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  44. @ben tillman

    This modern-day redlining persisted in 61 metro areas even when controlling for applicants’ income, loan amount and neighborhood . . . .
     
    But what happened when they controlled for everything that mattered, i.e., creditworthiness?

    This is straightforward and intentional demonization of whites.

    “even when controlling for applicants’ height, knowledge of Italian zombie movies, cereal preference, and sexual attractiveness to child predators…”

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  45. @Buzz Mohawk

    ...two factors the industry has fought to keep hidden: the prospective borrowers’ credit history and overall debt-to-income ratio.
     
    Woo! We fought to keep those hidden! We must be evil bastards!

    Those are confidential -- for the privacy of borrowers! -- and they explain -- completely -- why certain groups get turned down more.

    They have shitty credit (because they don't pay their debts) and they try to borrow more than their incomes will pay for (because they are stupid).

    But this is all obvious except to the people reading Aaron Glantz.

    When you look at credit scores, you get the strong impression that they they are analogous to the bell curve for IQ. You can tell a lot about a person from is credit score, and the sad thing is, most people don't have very good ones, just as most people are of only mediocre thinking-ability. Sad but true.

    It doesn't take much to build good credit. Just borrow a little and pay it back on schedule. Grow that over time, and you will have a good score. Pay your bills. Amazingly, a lot of people stink at that. Some races more than others.

    “One factor which the urology industry has fought to keep hidden: the size and beauty (or ugliness) of their patients’ penises.”

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  46. @Buzz Mohawk

    ...two factors the industry has fought to keep hidden: the prospective borrowers’ credit history and overall debt-to-income ratio.
     
    Woo! We fought to keep those hidden! We must be evil bastards!

    Those are confidential -- for the privacy of borrowers! -- and they explain -- completely -- why certain groups get turned down more.

    They have shitty credit (because they don't pay their debts) and they try to borrow more than their incomes will pay for (because they are stupid).

    But this is all obvious except to the people reading Aaron Glantz.

    When you look at credit scores, you get the strong impression that they they are analogous to the bell curve for IQ. You can tell a lot about a person from is credit score, and the sad thing is, most people don't have very good ones, just as most people are of only mediocre thinking-ability. Sad but true.

    It doesn't take much to build good credit. Just borrow a little and pay it back on schedule. Grow that over time, and you will have a good score. Pay your bills. Amazingly, a lot of people stink at that. Some races more than others.

    When you look at credit scores, you get the strong impression that they they are analogous to the bell curve for IQ. You can tell a lot about a person from is credit score, and the sad thing is, most people don’t have very good ones, just as most people are of only mediocre thinking-ability. Sad but true.

    It doesn’t take much to build good credit. Just borrow a little and pay it back on schedule. Grow that over time, and you will have a good score. Pay your bills. Amazingly, a lot of people stink at that. Some races more than others.When you work for the Center for Investigative Reporting, you bring to the table the assumption that other people are boneheads and you understand their business better than they do.

    True to a point. These days, many mid-wits—defined by Vox Day as people with slightly-higher-than-average IQ—often have an overinflated sense of their IQ and worth, and thus have taken out very expensive loans for grad school, such as law school or masters programs or j-school, that the job market can’t help them pay back but that everyone in the school told them was feasible.

    It’s not surprising to know a few 105-115 folks crushed by huge amounts of debt that they stupidly took out on Uncle Sam’s programs in their 20s. One reason student loan forgiveness and free college have become issues is because many a reporter and his under-employed buddies find the topics personally poignant.

    The phrase “over-educated and underemployed” is well known, as is the joke about baristas having Phds. and such.

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    • Replies: @Buzz Mohawk

    ...most people don’t have very good ones [credit scores], just as most people are of only mediocre thinking-ability.
     
    I wrote this to include those very people you mention. 105-115 Is mediocre (depending on one's perspective, of course). Those student loan-burdoned people to which you refer were sold on the idea that they could do things that Murray says in his book Real Education they really are not cut out for.

    Perspective matters in this case. One guesses people commenting here, for example, are mostly outside that 105-115 group to which you refer.

    You are correct, though, that bad credit is not limited to the stupid or the merely average. It's just that the left side of the curve is very heavy with low credit scores, and the fat middle also contains a lot.

    In fact, if you are in a position to read a lot of high-income people's credit reports, you discover that a lot of them are financially stupid but overpaid -- house poor people who spend every last dollar they make, plus their six-figure bonuses. They borrow on top of their incomes against what little equity they have in their McMansions.

    There is a different kind of intelligence, financial intelligence, that maybe doesn't show up in IQ scores. In light of that, maybe my original point is moot. Maybe even higher IQ people can be fools with their money. I will concede that.

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  47. @Jenner Ickham Errican
    Some say it’s best for the news media to conceal the names and faces of these types of killers, but I disagree. Pattern recognition can be a useful thing, even if the sample sizes are quite small. From the Daily Mail:

    Student Adam Habona, who lived next door to Cruz for six months described him as a violent loner who stole from neighbors and hurled coconuts at their homes.
     
    Chris Kattan as Mr. Peepers warned us years ago. The similar behavior and resemblance is uncanny:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kK82bEEFPck



    http://a57.foxnews.com/media2.foxnews.com/BrightCove/694940094001/2018/02/15/896/504/694940094001_5734677289001_5734662925001-vs.jpg?ve=1&tl=1

    Chris Kattan is one of those guys very popular with SNL-insiders but who never got over with the audience. Will Farrell seemed to have a particular connection with him.

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    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    I've sat through the Kattan-Farrell "A Night at the Roxbury" more than once.
    , @Jenner Ickham Errican
    Kattan’s wise-ass impish demeanor, full commitment to his characters, and great facial expressions and slapstick could make even lame material be pretty funny.
    , @anon
    Appearance based? I think his face/smile mark him as some combination of untrustworthy, sociopathic, and ambiguously gay. He has a bad guy face.
    , @ScarletNumber
    I personally find Kattan off-putting. He is just so smarmy and faggy.
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  48. @Twinkie

    then what color are Asians?

    Invisible color?
     
    Inconvenient color, more like.

    Inconvenient to the left’s claims of white institutional racism, oppression, etc.

    Also inconvenient to alt-right’s claims of white supremacy, exceptionalism, etc.

    Just.inconvenient.all.around. Hence, invisible. But, not the way Hispanics are.

    Also inconvenient to alt-right’s claims of white supremacy, exceptionalism, etc.

    You’ve been misinformed about the alt-right. We don’t think any of those things about Asians; we wish Asians would go about their business in Asia and not trouble us in our nations.

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    • Replies: @Twinkie
    I’m not saying all alt-righters think this way. But, there are some who do. They even comment thusly here.
    , @anonymous
    Rejecting meritocracy for nepotism is morally wrong, especially from the Confucianist perspective.

    And no, no whataboutism there. Asian countries do all generally have clearly defined, and relatively liberal policies for skilled workers. Sure, they may favor co-ethnics for immigration and the pathway to citizenship may be more difficult for foreigners but they've never had purely racial policies as the alt-right is obsessed with.

    But almost all of them, for example, have no issues with long-term residence for married foreigners, especially highly educated foreigners.

    So no, the alt-right can get stuffed. At their base, they are no better than any other spoils seeker once they've abandoned any notion of morality. The great saving grace is that their ideas are so unworkable that its not particularly worth being concerned about, though it speaks a lot of how degraded the once vaunted "Western thinking" has become when it is reduced to this.

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DV74KvoVQAA1Gv8.jpg


    Of course, they pair this with WeWuzKangzness in a highly disgusting manner. Its just sad, overall.

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  49. When I was selling RE 40 years ago, it was ALWAYS the credit report that torpedoed negros and mexicans. You always ordered that first, before income or job verification’s so you didn’t waste time or money with a deadbeat. That was the best way of keeping them out of the nice neighborhoods…LOL

    The idiot hebrew that wrote this story would also write one about peeps dying and not including any age data… Pathetic.

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    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Not so much 'Aaron Glantz'. Aaron Glans, more like.
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  50. @whorefinder
    Chris Kattan is one of those guys very popular with SNL-insiders but who never got over with the audience. Will Farrell seemed to have a particular connection with him.

    I’ve sat through the Kattan-Farrell “A Night at the Roxbury” more than once.

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    • Replies: @White Guy In Japan
    I loved that movie. Great dumb comedy. A 3D Beavis and Butthead. Ex-GF and I used to quote it constantly.
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  51. OT: black panther audience reaction memes

    http://boards.4chan.org/tv/thread/94700859

    An American audience makes black power fist salutes after the credits finish; awful internet Russians replace the image of what they’re saluting. Includes template.

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  52. @Daniel Williams
    I dunno. The ones who pay interest for a few years and then forfeit the asset are probably pretty popular with the banks.

    I don’t know the actual data, but I have a strong hunch that the average foreclosed house is damaged and/or poorly maintained enough as to offset the profit that the bank will have made off of interest and the eventual resale of the house. Plus, if I’m not mistaken, there can ve a long time elapsed between mortgage default and foreclosure to say nothing of resale.

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    • Replies: @Cloudbuster
    As a buyer of foreclosed houses, I can tell you this is true. A lot of them are very run-down, and if they were OK when the original owners left, copper thieves descend like flies, eipping out copper pipes, wiring, meters, stealing the coolant from AC units, even stealing meters water heaters and furnaces for scrap. Anything they can pry away, doing maximal damage in the process.
    , @SB Wright
    I have worked on the quant modeling side of mortgage default. The LGD (Loss Given Default) rates were higher than I would have guessed before I saw the data. Out of the large pool of houses that default over years' worth of data we modeled, there were some individual defaulted-on houses which broke even or even showed a profit for the institution, but these were very rare. Generally, whether due to damage, or process costs, or time elapsed, or a combination, the lender also loses a substantial amount in a default.
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  53. Anon • Disclaimer says:

    The latest figures from the U.S. Census Bureau show the median net worth for an African American family is now $9,000, compared with $132,000 for a white family. Latino families did not fare much better at $12,000.

    Did they count up all the bling? Blacks hold a lot in bling. Blacks need a system of exchange called Bitbling.

    http://www.chicagomag.com/Chicago-Magazine/Felsenthal-Files/August-2013/Rolex/

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    • Replies: @Arclight
    I had a black tenant once tell me (unsolicited) that the reason blacks like jewelry is because it's easy to pawn when times get rough. Of course, it looks like a lot of it is fake, but it does have some logic as well in instances in which someone actually has real gold or diamonds.
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  54. @Dan Hayes
    Steve,

    It had been noted by Milton Friedman that while mortgage denial rate were higher for minorities than non-minorities their eventual default rates were the same. Thus proving that the mortgage adjudication procedures were fair and nondiscriminatory.

    While I have had some problems with Friedman's unfettered economic liberalism, I have never had problems with his unfettered logic!

    Why are you bringing logic into it?

    Look, either you accept the Basic Principle of Equality–i.e. in a just society everybody would have these same status,* therefore any differences must be the result of evil social conditions–or you don’t. If you don’t, you are pariah.

    *Catch: not actually equal status, but equality controlled according to certain predetermined value judgements. Which are prone to change every half-second. Right now, a person’s status can’t be different because of their race (unless they’re white or NAMs), religion (unless they’re Christian in some cases), national origin (unless you guessed it), creed (unless…), sexual perversion, sexual identity, sexual sexy-sex-sex-sex (sex), and so forth.

    But there are all sorts of factors that can justly cause people to find themselves in superior or inferior positions. Diversity Pokemon Points, for instance. Which stomps all over the categories we set up above, but whatever. “Merit,” also, whatever that is. Unless people decide they just don’t like you, in which case merit is out the window.

    Somehow, every quality possessed by the ruling class is a-okay. Weird coincidence, I know.

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    • Agree: Dan Hayes
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  55. @Chris Marsk
    The "Case Study: Philadelphia" is one of those "There's got to be a "Rest of the Story'" things. It paints multiple banks as so ridiculously Satanic (not to mention irrational to their own self interest) that it reminded me of the "A Rape on Campus" anedote where four of bloodied Jackie's male and female friends suddenly decide they shouldn't call the police because it might tank their chances of getting invited to parties.

    Lenders and their trade organizations do not dispute the fact that they turn away people of color at rates far greater than whites. But they maintain that the disparity can be explained by two factors the industry has fought to keep hidden: the prospective borrowers’ credit history and overall debt-to-income ratio. They singled out the three-digit credit score - which banks use to determine whether a borrower is likely to repay a loan - as especially important in lending decisions.
     

    At the same time, studies have found proprietary credit score algorithms to have a discriminatory impact on borrowers of color.
     
    Disparate impact!

    The “decades-old credit scoring model” currently used “does not take into account consumer data on rent, utility, and cellphone bill payments,” Republican Sen. Tim Scott of South Carolina wrote in August, when he unveiled a bill to require the federal government to vet credit standards used for residential mortgages. “This exclusion disproportionately hurts African-Americans, Latinos, and young people who are otherwise creditworthy.”
     
    Here's one explanation of credit scores, which would seem to take into account utility payments:

    https://www.thebalance.com/how-credit-scores-work-315541


    The FICO credit score looks at how much debt you have, how you’ve repaid in the past, and more. Scores fall anywhere between 300 and 850 and are made up of the following components:

    35% Payment History – have you missed payments or defaulted on loans?
    30% Amounts Owed – how much do you owe (and are you maxed out)?
    15% Length of Credit – is borrowing new to you?
    10% New Credit – have you applied for numerous loans in the recent past?
    10% Type of Credit – do you have a healthy mix of different types of debt (auto, home, credit cards, and others)?

     

    They couldn't find one expert or actuary to interview who would speculate on why, perhaps, the couple in the article, or blacks in general, might get approved less frequently? Offer anonymity -- they do that to sources all the time.

    Back to Philadelphia:


    When Faroul applied for a loan in April 2016, she thought she was an ideal candidate. She holds a degree from Northwestern University, had a good credit score and estimates she was making $60,000 a year while teaching computer programming as a contractor for Rutgers University. Still, her initial loan application was denied by Philadelphia Mortgage Advisors, an independent broker that made nearly 90 percent of its loans to whites in 2015 and 2016.

    “I’m sorry,” broker Angela Tobin wrote to Faroul in an email. Faroul’s contract income wasn’t consistent enough, she said. So Faroul got a full-time job at the University of Pennsylvania managing a million-dollar grant.

    But that still wasn’t enough. When she tried again a year later, this time at Santander Bank, a Spanish firm with U.S. headquarters in Boston, the process dragged on for months. Eventually, an unpaid $284 electric bill appeared on Faroul’s credit report. She paid the bill right away, but it still tanked her credit score, and the bank said it couldn’t move forward.
     

    Degree from Northwestern: All a college degree is, is signalling to employers. Banks care about jobs, employers care about degrees. But what was her degree in? Computer science or computer engineering, maybe? Wow, a black and a woman with a computer engineering degree. Impressive! Uh, why isn't she working as a developer? Google is looking for black, lesbian developers, I hear. So something fishy is going on here.

    The article mentioned $60,000 income. The bank mentioned "inconsistent income." So Mr. "investigative reporter" from The Center for Investigative Reporting, here's where your ask your subject for more detail. Tax returns for the past 5 or 10 years. You owe that to the banks you're about to defame. Ask for college degree and major. Does the school verify it. Ask why she seems to be underemployed for her major, if she did in fact study computer science rather than critical race theory. Why did she hop from computer teaching to grant management rather than to a better computer industry job? How long had she worked as a grant manager? If less than 2 years, the bank is going to want to wait a bit.

    There's still a lot of weird stuff in that story, like why a part-time grocery clerk got a loan. It's all so strange that it was not ready for prime time in an article until the reporter untangled all this stuff.

    “a discriminatory impact”

    This is why I reread Politics and the English Language constantly.

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  56. @anon
    https://scholarship.law.duke.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=3912&context=dlj

    Blacks are bad with money. Not so bad. The author admits the problem is intractable. Even though credit scores were a reform, they are implicitly biased.

    How can they be so bad at money? Look how much they have to spare on making it rain over dancers?

    Money, money, money, money, money…
    Talk about cash money, money
    Talk about cash money
    Dollar bills, y’all!

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  57. Perhaps wealthy woke whites should put their money where their mouth is and offer low interest loans for peeps of vibrant skin tone to move into their neighborhoods.

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  58. Can you pay your mortgage with an EBT card?

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    • Replies: @fish
    One of the all time classics!
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  59. @Jenner Ickham Errican
    Some say it’s best for the news media to conceal the names and faces of these types of killers, but I disagree. Pattern recognition can be a useful thing, even if the sample sizes are quite small. From the Daily Mail:

    Student Adam Habona, who lived next door to Cruz for six months described him as a violent loner who stole from neighbors and hurled coconuts at their homes.
     
    Chris Kattan as Mr. Peepers warned us years ago. The similar behavior and resemblance is uncanny:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kK82bEEFPck



    http://a57.foxnews.com/media2.foxnews.com/BrightCove/694940094001/2018/02/15/896/504/694940094001_5734677289001_5734662925001-vs.jpg?ve=1&tl=1

    Fetal alcohol spectrum disorder (FASD). Not very funny but very sad. I’m wondering about his adoption.

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    • Replies: @Jenner Ickham Errican
    The whole thing’s both sad and farcical. It’s odd that someone for years can get away with so much crazy behavior and crimes (self harm, theft, major vandalism, killing animals for fun, showing off knives at school, etc. etc.) and not be either criminally convicted or institutionalized.

    If Cruz had been involuntarily committed to a psych hospital for even just a short period of time, he would not have passed a background check to legally buy his gun.
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  60. @whorefinder
    Chris Kattan is one of those guys very popular with SNL-insiders but who never got over with the audience. Will Farrell seemed to have a particular connection with him.

    Kattan’s wise-ass impish demeanor, full commitment to his characters, and great facial expressions and slapstick could make even lame material be pretty funny.

    Read More
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  61. @Reg Cæsar
    I think if we stopped noticing these school shootings, they would go away. Front-page news coverage just encourages them.

    It certainly doesn’t help for the President of the United States to go visit the affected place, as Obama did in Newtown, and now Trump seems likely to do in Parkland, and as he did in Las Vegas. Now every homicidal loser knows he can conjure up a Presidential visit.

    I agree with you – better to keep these things under wraps as much as possible. Or perhaps the perpetrators, when and if they are caught and convicted, should be simply beaten to death by the victims’ relatives on live TV.

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  62. “I had a fair amount of savings and still had so much trouble just left and right,” said Rachelle Faroul, a 33-year-old black woman who was rejected twice by lenders when she tried to buy a brick row house close to Malcolm X Park in Philadelphia,……..

    How much is a “fair amount” of savings? In any event, you can buy a house with no money down if your credit rating is good enough (or at least you could a dozen years ago).

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    • Replies: @Chris Marsk

    How much is a “fair amount” of savings? In any event, you can buy a house with no money down if your credit rating is good enough (or at least you could a dozen years ago).
     
    And you can also just pay cash. So we know that the "fair amount of savings" was south of somewhere bertween the $50,000 and $100,000 that three-bedroom fixer-uppers are listed for on Zillow right now. To most people that's not a fair amount of savings. That's more along the lines of the 6 months to a year's living expenses that is recommended as the minimum safety net to have in case you're laid off.

    A few weeks later, the couple got the loan from Santander and bought a three-bedroom fixer-upper.
     
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  63. @jim jones
    Can you pay your mortgage with an EBT card?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xLTTX35LNJo&feature=share

    One of the all time classics!

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  64. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    In these Orwellian times, ‘Discrimination’ is the ultimate, unforgivable sin

    Now, the essence of running a business is making logical decisions based purely and solely upon the effects of cash flow into the business. Hence, ‘discrimination’ must be used in formulating general corporate policy.
    Unfortunately, ‘discrimination’ falls foul of the ultimate Orwellian Economist commandment, hence ‘discrimination’ being the weaker of the two – in the ‘moral’ and legalistic sense, must go.
    But,of course, in the real, vital sense ‘discrimination’ is the only one of the two that *really* matters , and matters it does.

    Hence, inevitably, the business will go.

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  65. @gunner29
    When I was selling RE 40 years ago, it was ALWAYS the credit report that torpedoed negros and mexicans. You always ordered that first, before income or job verification's so you didn't waste time or money with a deadbeat. That was the best way of keeping them out of the nice neighborhoods...LOL

    The idiot hebrew that wrote this story would also write one about peeps dying and not including any age data... Pathetic.

    Not so much ‘Aaron Glantz’. Aaron Glans, more like.

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  66. @Reg Cæsar
    I think if we stopped noticing these school shootings, they would go away. Front-page news coverage just encourages them.

    On the other hand, it does seem that these events are not dominating the news cycle for as long or as intense as they did in the past, paradoxically because they happen more often. Off the top of my head, I can’t remember a single thing about the San Antonio shooter, yet I still easily remember the names of Dylan Klebold and Eric Harris, who killed fewer people nearly 20 years ago.

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    • Replies: @Stan Adams
    We know far more about Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold than we do about any of their spiritual successors.

    About ten years ago, I went through a true-crime phase and read everything I could find about the Columbine massacre. (Virtually every single police interview with every single person who was inside the school is available online, unredacted.)

    The “definitive” book about the case was written by a gay guy who claims that Harris was a swaggering psychopath who “got lots and lots of chicks” and “outscored the football team,” while Klebold was his cowering sidekick. But that conclusion simply doesn’t jibe with the established facts.

    Harris was a short, scrawny incel boiling over with gamma rage. Klebold may or may not have been the weaker personality, but there’s no question that both boys were consumed with self-loathing. The bullying aspect was overrated, but both kids were undoubtedly among the butt-monkeys of the senior class.
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  67. @Mr. Anon

    “I had a fair amount of savings and still had so much trouble just left and right,” said Rachelle Faroul, a 33-year-old black woman who was rejected twice by lenders when she tried to buy a brick row house close to Malcolm X Park in Philadelphia,........
     
    How much is a "fair amount" of savings? In any event, you can buy a house with no money down if your credit rating is good enough (or at least you could a dozen years ago).

    How much is a “fair amount” of savings? In any event, you can buy a house with no money down if your credit rating is good enough (or at least you could a dozen years ago).

    And you can also just pay cash. So we know that the “fair amount of savings” was south of somewhere bertween the $50,000 and $100,000 that three-bedroom fixer-uppers are listed for on Zillow right now. To most people that’s not a fair amount of savings. That’s more along the lines of the 6 months to a year’s living expenses that is recommended as the minimum safety net to have in case you’re laid off.

    A few weeks later, the couple got the loan from Santander and bought a three-bedroom fixer-upper.

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  68. Anon • Disclaimer says:

    https://www.economist.com/blogs/economist-explains/2018/02/economist-explains-9

    while reform-minded members of the more established groups are maturing, a younger set of L.A.-style street gangs is rising in New Zealand, many of them Maori and Polynesian. Their bling-obsessed teenage recruits are violent and unpredictable—and are quickly filling up the prisons.

    It used to be whites tamed the ‘natives’. But whites grew soft and adrift. So, the ‘natives’ and tribes are re-emerging. They are vulgarizing the whites. Whites in NZ imitate Maori tribes. Whites in UK and France imitate Afro-rappers.

    What a world.

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  69. @anonymous
    Fetal alcohol spectrum disorder (FASD). Not very funny but very sad. I’m wondering about his adoption.

    The whole thing’s both sad and farcical. It’s odd that someone for years can get away with so much crazy behavior and crimes (self harm, theft, major vandalism, killing animals for fun, showing off knives at school, etc. etc.) and not be either criminally convicted or institutionalized.

    If Cruz had been involuntarily committed to a psych hospital for even just a short period of time, he would not have passed a background check to legally buy his gun.

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    • Replies: @TTSSYF
    True, but I thought I read that the gun he used was purchased illegally.
    , @anonymous
    It’s odd that someone for years can get away with so much crazy behavior and crimes (self harm, theft, major vandalism, killing animals for fun, showing off knives at school, etc. etc.) and not be either criminally convicted or institutionalized.

    The “juvenile” law and involuntary commitment procedures are big impediments. Nothing will be done to change that I fear.

    , @Jim Don Bob
    Right. The shooting at Virginia Tech was 10 years ago, and what has been done to deal with people who are known to be dangerous nuts? Absolutely nothing, because that would mean changing the law to make it easier to commit known wackos before they explode. Much more fun to rattle on about gun control.
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  70. @Chris Marsk
    The "Case Study: Philadelphia" is one of those "There's got to be a "Rest of the Story'" things. It paints multiple banks as so ridiculously Satanic (not to mention irrational to their own self interest) that it reminded me of the "A Rape on Campus" anedote where four of bloodied Jackie's male and female friends suddenly decide they shouldn't call the police because it might tank their chances of getting invited to parties.

    Lenders and their trade organizations do not dispute the fact that they turn away people of color at rates far greater than whites. But they maintain that the disparity can be explained by two factors the industry has fought to keep hidden: the prospective borrowers’ credit history and overall debt-to-income ratio. They singled out the three-digit credit score - which banks use to determine whether a borrower is likely to repay a loan - as especially important in lending decisions.
     

    At the same time, studies have found proprietary credit score algorithms to have a discriminatory impact on borrowers of color.
     
    Disparate impact!

    The “decades-old credit scoring model” currently used “does not take into account consumer data on rent, utility, and cellphone bill payments,” Republican Sen. Tim Scott of South Carolina wrote in August, when he unveiled a bill to require the federal government to vet credit standards used for residential mortgages. “This exclusion disproportionately hurts African-Americans, Latinos, and young people who are otherwise creditworthy.”
     
    Here's one explanation of credit scores, which would seem to take into account utility payments:

    https://www.thebalance.com/how-credit-scores-work-315541


    The FICO credit score looks at how much debt you have, how you’ve repaid in the past, and more. Scores fall anywhere between 300 and 850 and are made up of the following components:

    35% Payment History – have you missed payments or defaulted on loans?
    30% Amounts Owed – how much do you owe (and are you maxed out)?
    15% Length of Credit – is borrowing new to you?
    10% New Credit – have you applied for numerous loans in the recent past?
    10% Type of Credit – do you have a healthy mix of different types of debt (auto, home, credit cards, and others)?

     

    They couldn't find one expert or actuary to interview who would speculate on why, perhaps, the couple in the article, or blacks in general, might get approved less frequently? Offer anonymity -- they do that to sources all the time.

    Back to Philadelphia:


    When Faroul applied for a loan in April 2016, she thought she was an ideal candidate. She holds a degree from Northwestern University, had a good credit score and estimates she was making $60,000 a year while teaching computer programming as a contractor for Rutgers University. Still, her initial loan application was denied by Philadelphia Mortgage Advisors, an independent broker that made nearly 90 percent of its loans to whites in 2015 and 2016.

    “I’m sorry,” broker Angela Tobin wrote to Faroul in an email. Faroul’s contract income wasn’t consistent enough, she said. So Faroul got a full-time job at the University of Pennsylvania managing a million-dollar grant.

    But that still wasn’t enough. When she tried again a year later, this time at Santander Bank, a Spanish firm with U.S. headquarters in Boston, the process dragged on for months. Eventually, an unpaid $284 electric bill appeared on Faroul’s credit report. She paid the bill right away, but it still tanked her credit score, and the bank said it couldn’t move forward.
     

    Degree from Northwestern: All a college degree is, is signalling to employers. Banks care about jobs, employers care about degrees. But what was her degree in? Computer science or computer engineering, maybe? Wow, a black and a woman with a computer engineering degree. Impressive! Uh, why isn't she working as a developer? Google is looking for black, lesbian developers, I hear. So something fishy is going on here.

    The article mentioned $60,000 income. The bank mentioned "inconsistent income." So Mr. "investigative reporter" from The Center for Investigative Reporting, here's where your ask your subject for more detail. Tax returns for the past 5 or 10 years. You owe that to the banks you're about to defame. Ask for college degree and major. Does the school verify it. Ask why she seems to be underemployed for her major, if she did in fact study computer science rather than critical race theory. Why did she hop from computer teaching to grant management rather than to a better computer industry job? How long had she worked as a grant manager? If less than 2 years, the bank is going to want to wait a bit.

    There's still a lot of weird stuff in that story, like why a part-time grocery clerk got a loan. It's all so strange that it was not ready for prime time in an article until the reporter untangled all this stuff.

    You owe that to the banks you’re about to defame.

    Oh yeah, the poor banks, won’t someone please think of the banks? Help! Help! I’m being defamed!

    This article isnt about banks. It’s about White “racism”. The financial mumbo jumbo is just the excuse. This is good old fashioned hate speech against Whites.

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  71. @whorefinder
    Chris Kattan is one of those guys very popular with SNL-insiders but who never got over with the audience. Will Farrell seemed to have a particular connection with him.

    Appearance based? I think his face/smile mark him as some combination of untrustworthy, sociopathic, and ambiguously gay. He has a bad guy face.

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  72. @Rosamond Vincy
    Um, remember the housing crash of just a few years back? You could see those red notices on front doors not only in notorious neighborhoods, but in nice middle-class areas.

    Some people aren't in a position to handle a mortgage, no matter how good their intentions may be. So... DON'T LET THEM HAVE ONE.

    Um, remember the housing crash of just a few years back? You could see those red notices on front doors not only in notorious neighborhoods, but in nice middle-class areas.

    Some people aren’t in a position to handle a mortgage, no matter how good their intentions may be. So… DON’T LET THEM HAVE ONE.

    Hooah! And then they can PULL THEMSELVES UP BY THEIR BOOTSTRAPS.

    How about instead we fix it so that ordinary working people can conceivably buy property without a lifetime of debt? Or at minimum, fix it so ordinary working people can conceivably expect to maintain a job with a sufficient income for their whole working lives, so they can pay a mortgage.

    Rich conservatives love to look down their noses at people and say they’re financially irresponsible. The plants all shut down and the jobs are outsourced and the service economy wages have been slashed by continuous immigration… but Joe Sixpack “can’t handle a mortgage” because he’s just a flakey idiot.

    There were so many foreclosures in “nice” neighborhoods because people had a choice, they could buy lower priced housing in school districts with lots of nonWhites and hope their kids didn’t get beaten and raped, or they could take the funny money the nice man was offering them and buy a ridiculous McMansion surrounded by other White people.

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    • Replies: @Cloudbuster
    How about instead we fix it so that ordinary working people can conceivably buy property without a lifetime of debt?

    Easy. Property has market value. To buy it without "a lifetime of debt" (I am sad for you that you will only live 30 years) you simply have to pay all or most of the property price up front.

    So, you want to buy a $100k house without debt?

    Step 1: Get $100k....

    , @Rosamond Vincy
    Um, they can rent. In a nice school district.

    My grandparents rented most of their lives. My parents were of that generation that could get a house on mortgage, and gradually pay it off, but for most people of my generation, it's back to renting. Could be worse: for millennials, that means renting in their parents' basement. They're back to pre-WWI life, when having several generations in the same house was standard practice. The nuclear family was very much a 20th-century thing.

    Part of being financially responsible is recognizing what kind of economy you're dealing with, and being practical about it. The boom years of post WWII and the Reagan era were lovely, but they are over. As to how to fix the economy so working people can have a better life, people have been trying to figure that out forever. So far, no one has found a means of sustaining long-term prosperity without taking the goodies from someone else. Better rent than Red.

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  73. @Buffalo Joe
    I have an idea. Why don't the liberals and SJWs and of course the Democrats found a bank, self finance it and lend mortgage money to all these POC who are denied loans. I am sure that if they approached all the donors that gave Hillary at least a billion for her failed campaign they could get the seed money to start. I just can't think of a proper name for this endeavor.

    “I just can’t think of a proper name for this endeavor.”

    How about: “Homes of any color for people of a certain color”?

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    • Replies: @Buffalo Joe
    Stephen, Bingo !
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  74. @Hapalong Cassidy
    On the other hand, it does seem that these events are not dominating the news cycle for as long or as intense as they did in the past, paradoxically because they happen more often. Off the top of my head, I can’t remember a single thing about the San Antonio shooter, yet I still easily remember the names of Dylan Klebold and Eric Harris, who killed fewer people nearly 20 years ago.

    We know far more about Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold than we do about any of their spiritual successors.

    About ten years ago, I went through a true-crime phase and read everything I could find about the Columbine massacre. (Virtually every single police interview with every single person who was inside the school is available online, unredacted.)

    The “definitive” book about the case was written by a gay guy who claims that Harris was a swaggering psychopath who “got lots and lots of chicks” and “outscored the football team,” while Klebold was his cowering sidekick. But that conclusion simply doesn’t jibe with the established facts.

    Harris was a short, scrawny incel boiling over with gamma rage. Klebold may or may not have been the weaker personality, but there’s no question that both boys were consumed with self-loathing. The bullying aspect was overrated, but both kids were undoubtedly among the butt-monkeys of the senior class.

    Read More
    • Replies: @S. Anonyia
    “Everything about the established facts” suggests Harris never got seriously bullied. He was not that short at 5’7, he had a date to his freshman homecoming, and he had plenty of friends. He did seem to develop some sort of psychological problem in high school though, where he did pointlessly edgy things like faking a suicide for attention. Harris also had a lengthy history of low level juvenile delinquency- smashing windshields, breaking into vehicles, setting off firecrackers in alleys. He likely had delusions of grandeur exacerbated by his medication.

    Klebold likely was bullied some and was depressed though. But even he still had a date to prom, something half of high school guys don’t get.
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  75. “… what color are Asians?”

    Steve, I’ve posted this here before: Asians are a vibrant shade of pale (an allusion to the old Procol Harum song “A Whiter Shade of Pale”.) Feel free to use this if you like it.

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    • Replies: @anonymous

    Feel free to use this if you like it.
     
    Declined. :(
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  76. @27 year old

    Um, remember the housing crash of just a few years back? You could see those red notices on front doors not only in notorious neighborhoods, but in nice middle-class areas.

    Some people aren’t in a position to handle a mortgage, no matter how good their intentions may be. So… DON’T LET THEM HAVE ONE.
     
    Hooah! And then they can PULL THEMSELVES UP BY THEIR BOOTSTRAPS.

    How about instead we fix it so that ordinary working people can conceivably buy property without a lifetime of debt? Or at minimum, fix it so ordinary working people can conceivably expect to maintain a job with a sufficient income for their whole working lives, so they can pay a mortgage.

    Rich conservatives love to look down their noses at people and say they're financially irresponsible. The plants all shut down and the jobs are outsourced and the service economy wages have been slashed by continuous immigration... but Joe Sixpack "can't handle a mortgage" because he's just a flakey idiot.

    There were so many foreclosures in "nice" neighborhoods because people had a choice, they could buy lower priced housing in school districts with lots of nonWhites and hope their kids didn't get beaten and raped, or they could take the funny money the nice man was offering them and buy a ridiculous McMansion surrounded by other White people.

    How about instead we fix it so that ordinary working people can conceivably buy property without a lifetime of debt?

    Easy. Property has market value. To buy it without “a lifetime of debt” (I am sad for you that you will only live 30 years) you simply have to pay all or most of the property price up front.

    So, you want to buy a $100k house without debt?

    Step 1: Get $100k….

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  77. @AndrewR
    I don't know the actual data, but I have a strong hunch that the average foreclosed house is damaged and/or poorly maintained enough as to offset the profit that the bank will have made off of interest and the eventual resale of the house. Plus, if I'm not mistaken, there can ve a long time elapsed between mortgage default and foreclosure to say nothing of resale.

    As a buyer of foreclosed houses, I can tell you this is true. A lot of them are very run-down, and if they were OK when the original owners left, copper thieves descend like flies, eipping out copper pipes, wiring, meters, stealing the coolant from AC units, even stealing meters water heaters and furnaces for scrap. Anything they can pry away, doing maximal damage in the process.

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    • Replies: @anon
    A friend of mine lives in Flint and called the cops on copper thieves who had broken into his neighbor's house in broad daylight. The dispatcher said that was not a high priority and no cops ever came. Whereas I live in a nearby community where two squad cars will show up in minutes if your busybody neighbor tattles on someone merely for "acting suspicious." I don't know how anyone expects Flint to recover if burglary and copper theft are essentially legal. Maybe no one does expect Flint to recover.
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  78. @Yan Shen

    By the way, if blacks and browns are People of Color, but whites and Asians are not, then what color are Asians?

    Invisible color?
     

    Asian Americans, in particular those of East Asian descent, are one of the smallest minority groups in America and are undoubtedly people of color. They're also the most openly discriminated against group in this country, as the recent lawsuits against Harvard or our general willingness to tolerate anti-Asian bigotry shows.

    Sadly, the racist mainstream media consistently ignores East Asians in our national discourse on race. When will these so called progressives own up to their hate?

    They are also one of the most affluent groups in the country. So sorry if we don’t feel your pain. You might as well be Jews.

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  79. @Jenner Ickham Errican
    The whole thing’s both sad and farcical. It’s odd that someone for years can get away with so much crazy behavior and crimes (self harm, theft, major vandalism, killing animals for fun, showing off knives at school, etc. etc.) and not be either criminally convicted or institutionalized.

    If Cruz had been involuntarily committed to a psych hospital for even just a short period of time, he would not have passed a background check to legally buy his gun.

    True, but I thought I read that the gun he used was purchased illegally.

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  80. We rent a few units. At first we had a VERY detailed application for prospective tenants. But after a while we realized that the tenants’ credit scores were by far the best way to judge how stable they would be. Income did not seem to matter.

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    • Replies: @Jim Don Bob
    Do you mean the credit reports from agencies like Experian or the numeric FICO score?

    I'm 825. My 26 year old daughter is 850.
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  81. Let’s see the left make Woke Bank and give loans to all these deserving people, regardless of credit score. If you found a market inefficiency, take advantage!

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    • Replies: @Jim Don Bob

    Let’s see the left make Woke Bank and give loans to all these deserving people, regardless of credit score. If you found a market inefficiency, take advantage!
     
    That would require the left to put their money where their mouth is. Their plans boil down to "give us more money and power so we can force you to do unpalatable things".
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  82. @Anonymous


    then what color are Asians?

    Invisible color?


    Lots of Japanese are just plain white-skinned. No yellow hue. Just pasty. Yoko Ono was pasty. At least in the limited sunshine environments in London & NY she inhabited.

    Your duplicitous use of the past tense–twice–gave me hope that The Screech was dead. I hastened to google her. She’s not.

    You *******.

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  83. @FKA Max
    OT, fyi for you, Mr. Sailer:

    Does saving more lives lead to overpopulation?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=obRG-2jurz0


    Bill Gates
    Published on Feb 13, 2018
    Bill Gates explains his answer to the tough question from this year's Annual Letter: "Does saving kids' lives lead to overpopulation?"
    Learn more at http://b-gat.es/2BQfnC6
     
    THE BOGUS "DEMOGRAPHIC TRANSITION" THEORY

    The theory is simple: the increase in well-being derived from economic development leads to a decrease in fertility.

    In her book, Population Politics: The Choices That Shape Our Future, Virginia D. Abernethy systematically destroys the credibility of this theory. When researchers closely examined the basis for this theory in the early 1970s, they discovered that the early proponents had made assumptions about the industrialized countries that were historically dead wrong. Actually, the fertility transition to small families had occurred in the midst of desperate poverty and very high infant mortality in Europe.293 In a Wall Street Journal article, "Experience Teaches Population Control Can Precede Development, and Spur It," published just before the Cairo Population Conference in September 1994, Tim Carrington cites compelling evidence that this theory is bogus. He writes that the view "Development is the best contraceptive" was widely held 20 years earlier. However, much has changed: "...there is broad agreement that the old maxim can be fully retired. Its weakness lies in the implicit suggestion that efforts to reduce fertility work only after a nation has lifted itself out of poverty. Reality suggests otherwise."293a
     

    - http://www.population-security.org/24-CH16.html#11

    The population policy of only 1 child for each couple was proposed for the longterm benefit of China and its people and because of the urgent demand of the 4 modernizations. The indication of the achievement of the 4 modernizations by the end of the 20th century is a per capita income of 1000 United States dollars. To reach the $1000 figure, the per capita income needs to be increased 3-fold. This is a difficult task, and to realize it effort must be placed on both material production and population control. Problems that may result from the advocation of only 1 child for each couple are reviewed. The way to promote the exeuction of the policy of planned control of population growth is to apply ideological education as the major method and to integrate it with economical and administrative measures.
     
    - https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12311034

    Yeah, demographic transition is BS. The norm for women is to have between 4-8 children; traditional groups in the west easily manage this. What decreases fertility is feminism, not wealth. The best example of this is Saudi Arabia. It had tons of oil money but TFR has only dropped recently. And what would you know, the society is becoming more feminist- now women outnumber men on college campuses there.

    The thing people don’t want to talk about is humans are like the Moties in A Mote in God’s Eye- it is the default to have a high growth rate when resources are plentiful. This should be obvious from the fact evolution is true, but tragically high IQ appears to be about making explanations for stupider and stupider beliefs.

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  84. @Steve Sailer
    I've sat through the Kattan-Farrell "A Night at the Roxbury" more than once.

    I loved that movie. Great dumb comedy. A 3D Beavis and Butthead. Ex-GF and I used to quote it constantly.

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  85. @Twinkie

    then what color are Asians?

    Invisible color?
     
    Inconvenient color, more like.

    Inconvenient to the left’s claims of white institutional racism, oppression, etc.

    Also inconvenient to alt-right’s claims of white supremacy, exceptionalism, etc.

    Just.inconvenient.all.around. Hence, invisible. But, not the way Hispanics are.

    Also inconvenient to alt-right’s claims of white supremacy, exceptionalism, etc.

    Historically white supremacists recognized that Asians were better then them; that was the reason for excluding the Chinese and Japanese from immigrating to the United States. The yellow peril was about the threat Asians would pose if they worked together like Europeans did.

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    • Replies: @William Badwhite
    The reason Chinese were excluded was sheer numbers. It was recognized China could fill up the Western US pretty much without breaking a sweat. Recognizing that they "were better than them" is nonsense.
    , @JSM
    Not according to my mother. The Yellow Peril was the old adage, if you started the Chinese marching past you, four abreast, the line would never end. (I.e., the insane numbers of them already, they'd have time to have enough babies, and for the babies to grow up, and they to reproduce yet again, before the parents at the back of the line reached you.)
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  86. @Buffalo Joe
    I have an idea. Why don't the liberals and SJWs and of course the Democrats found a bank, self finance it and lend mortgage money to all these POC who are denied loans. I am sure that if they approached all the donors that gave Hillary at least a billion for her failed campaign they could get the seed money to start. I just can't think of a proper name for this endeavor.

    It already exists. It’s about as well-run as you’d imagine.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OneUnited_Bank

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    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Reading the Wikipedia history of this black-owned bank, and all the other bankrupt black-owned banks it merged with, is hilarious.

    In 2001 the institution merged with Founders National Bank of Los Angeles, of which the majority owners were former professional basketball player and businessman Earvin "Magic" Johnson, musician Janet Jackson, and former Motown Records President Jheryl Busby.

    Boston Bank of Commerce rebranded as OneUnited Bank.

    OneUnited Bank offers an annual financial literacy essay contest for youth, and President Teri Williams wrote a children’s book, I Got Bank! What My Granddad Taught Me About Money, to teach financial literacy to urban youth.
     

    , @Buffalo Joe
    Brrute, thank you, but you will never see and article where One United denies a loan based on, let's see, your ability to repay the loan.
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  87. @Anonymous


    then what color are Asians?

    Invisible color?


    Lots of Japanese are just plain white-skinned. No yellow hue. Just pasty. Yoko Ono was pasty. At least in the limited sunshine environments in London & NY she inhabited.

    Asian pasty ≠ European white.

    Japanese people who have remained out of direct sunlight for a certain duration have an opaque, deathly pallor about them, like that of dead tissue of the stratum corneum that has become sodden by soaking in water. If they proceed to enjoy a day lounging on the Shōnan beach, almost all of them will end up with the skin tone of a Cambodian at least temporarily. If they have enjoyed their day off so much that they take up the habit of riding the waves every Sunday, their skin will end up being not much different from the average Indian (though probably never so dark as the darkest Dravidian or tribal folk).

    The “blushy,” translucent skin tone of many Europeans is extremely rare among Japanese, though a great number of them will apply rouge (and avoid sunlight like the devil) in an attempt to imitate it.

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  88. A solution would be to go back to a minimum down payment of 20% of the purchase price. That would eliminate a lot of people, but if you have real skin in the game, you are going to try very hard to make the mortgage payments to avoid losing the down payment.

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  89. anon • Disclaimer says:
    @Cloudbuster
    As a buyer of foreclosed houses, I can tell you this is true. A lot of them are very run-down, and if they were OK when the original owners left, copper thieves descend like flies, eipping out copper pipes, wiring, meters, stealing the coolant from AC units, even stealing meters water heaters and furnaces for scrap. Anything they can pry away, doing maximal damage in the process.

    A friend of mine lives in Flint and called the cops on copper thieves who had broken into his neighbor’s house in broad daylight. The dispatcher said that was not a high priority and no cops ever came. Whereas I live in a nearby community where two squad cars will show up in minutes if your busybody neighbor tattles on someone merely for “acting suspicious.” I don’t know how anyone expects Flint to recover if burglary and copper theft are essentially legal. Maybe no one does expect Flint to recover.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Cloudbuster
    Maybe no one does expect Flint to recover.

    That right there.
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  90. @Chris Marsk
    The "Case Study: Philadelphia" is one of those "There's got to be a "Rest of the Story'" things. It paints multiple banks as so ridiculously Satanic (not to mention irrational to their own self interest) that it reminded me of the "A Rape on Campus" anedote where four of bloodied Jackie's male and female friends suddenly decide they shouldn't call the police because it might tank their chances of getting invited to parties.

    Lenders and their trade organizations do not dispute the fact that they turn away people of color at rates far greater than whites. But they maintain that the disparity can be explained by two factors the industry has fought to keep hidden: the prospective borrowers’ credit history and overall debt-to-income ratio. They singled out the three-digit credit score - which banks use to determine whether a borrower is likely to repay a loan - as especially important in lending decisions.
     

    At the same time, studies have found proprietary credit score algorithms to have a discriminatory impact on borrowers of color.
     
    Disparate impact!

    The “decades-old credit scoring model” currently used “does not take into account consumer data on rent, utility, and cellphone bill payments,” Republican Sen. Tim Scott of South Carolina wrote in August, when he unveiled a bill to require the federal government to vet credit standards used for residential mortgages. “This exclusion disproportionately hurts African-Americans, Latinos, and young people who are otherwise creditworthy.”
     
    Here's one explanation of credit scores, which would seem to take into account utility payments:

    https://www.thebalance.com/how-credit-scores-work-315541


    The FICO credit score looks at how much debt you have, how you’ve repaid in the past, and more. Scores fall anywhere between 300 and 850 and are made up of the following components:

    35% Payment History – have you missed payments or defaulted on loans?
    30% Amounts Owed – how much do you owe (and are you maxed out)?
    15% Length of Credit – is borrowing new to you?
    10% New Credit – have you applied for numerous loans in the recent past?
    10% Type of Credit – do you have a healthy mix of different types of debt (auto, home, credit cards, and others)?

     

    They couldn't find one expert or actuary to interview who would speculate on why, perhaps, the couple in the article, or blacks in general, might get approved less frequently? Offer anonymity -- they do that to sources all the time.

    Back to Philadelphia:


    When Faroul applied for a loan in April 2016, she thought she was an ideal candidate. She holds a degree from Northwestern University, had a good credit score and estimates she was making $60,000 a year while teaching computer programming as a contractor for Rutgers University. Still, her initial loan application was denied by Philadelphia Mortgage Advisors, an independent broker that made nearly 90 percent of its loans to whites in 2015 and 2016.

    “I’m sorry,” broker Angela Tobin wrote to Faroul in an email. Faroul’s contract income wasn’t consistent enough, she said. So Faroul got a full-time job at the University of Pennsylvania managing a million-dollar grant.

    But that still wasn’t enough. When she tried again a year later, this time at Santander Bank, a Spanish firm with U.S. headquarters in Boston, the process dragged on for months. Eventually, an unpaid $284 electric bill appeared on Faroul’s credit report. She paid the bill right away, but it still tanked her credit score, and the bank said it couldn’t move forward.
     

    Degree from Northwestern: All a college degree is, is signalling to employers. Banks care about jobs, employers care about degrees. But what was her degree in? Computer science or computer engineering, maybe? Wow, a black and a woman with a computer engineering degree. Impressive! Uh, why isn't she working as a developer? Google is looking for black, lesbian developers, I hear. So something fishy is going on here.

    The article mentioned $60,000 income. The bank mentioned "inconsistent income." So Mr. "investigative reporter" from The Center for Investigative Reporting, here's where your ask your subject for more detail. Tax returns for the past 5 or 10 years. You owe that to the banks you're about to defame. Ask for college degree and major. Does the school verify it. Ask why she seems to be underemployed for her major, if she did in fact study computer science rather than critical race theory. Why did she hop from computer teaching to grant management rather than to a better computer industry job? How long had she worked as a grant manager? If less than 2 years, the bank is going to want to wait a bit.

    There's still a lot of weird stuff in that story, like why a part-time grocery clerk got a loan. It's all so strange that it was not ready for prime time in an article until the reporter untangled all this stuff.

    “Degree from Northwestern”

    What kind of student loan debt was she carrying ? And yeah , what was her degree in ?

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  91. The current US mortgage market is an anomaly in place and time. In Canada, for example:

    1. 30 year mortgages, what the heck is that? In Canada most mortgages are 5 years or less term with a 25-year amortization. Also, hefty prepayment penalties so it’s tough to take advantage of falling rates unless you have a short mortgage term.

    2. Mortgages are attached to the borrower, not the property. If you move to a more expensive new house, just take out another loan to make up the difference. This means banks are more interested in your ability to pay than the quality of the mortgage collateral. Also, a Canadian just can’t walk away from a mortgage if housing values drop. The lender can go after all your other assets to settle defaulted mortgage debt.

    3. No mortgage interest deduction. Canada freely admits it does not support home ownership over other types of housing. You’re on your own as a homeowner and lenders realise this when they lend.

    I’ve spoken with some US old timers back in the 1980s and they indicated that the US mortgage market was similar to the Canadian prior to the 1940s so much of this “red-lining” chatter may just reflect more stringent lending standards of the past being viewed through the diversity-inclusion lens of the present.

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    • Replies: @Corn
    Thanks for the observations. One question, is it legal in Canada for a contractor/homebuilder to build a house on spec? (Speculation)

    I was acquainted with an Ontario woman ten-twelve years ago who told me you couldn’t build a house in Canada unless a buyer had commissioned it. Contractors could not simply build homes and hope they sold.
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  92. @Daniel Williams
    I dunno. The ones who pay interest for a few years and then forfeit the asset are probably pretty popular with the banks.

    Banks don’t want foreclosed properties. If there truly is equity in the property, the borrower works out a sale before a foreclosure takes places.

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  93. @songbird
    This is one of my favorite liberal/Hollywood myths. Blacks just can't get ahead because banks don't want to make money. They are prejudiced against sure bets, if the sure bets are black.

    In America, which has more banks by leaps and bounds than any other country, maybe even more banks than the rest of the world combined, none is willing to make sure bets, if the bets are black. Meanwhile, no blacks have pooled together their savings to make sure bets on blacks. And Jews who in general express so much love of blacks, have no money at all to spare to make sure black bets.

    Yep, this logical argument pretty much destroys every race/gender myth, not that anyone cares. For all of these unfair inequalities (women in tech, blacks getting loans, Mexicans not becoming physicists, etc.) to perpetuate would require a conspiracy that no only includes evil white guys, but the “good guys” – blacks, women, Hispanics, Jews, Asians and woke whites.

    What these Cult of Equality people (they’re not just leftists because the GOP believes the same thing) can’t seem to figure out is that evil white guys don’t control the hiring and firing of every last person in the country, nor do we control every last investment dollar, nor are we the CEO of every company – large and small – in the United States.

    There are women executives, Hispanic CEOs and woke white bankers, who presumably won’t discriminate because 1) they think that it’s wrong and 2) they don’t want to lose money or promotions by not hiring the best people available or making very profitable deals. (Btw, this conspiracy theory also presumes that mean white gusy would rather lose money and promotions than be fair.)

    If evil white (but an East or South Asian) guys are blocking women from moving up in the tech, that would mean a surplus of very talented women programmers would be available. Smart companies and executives would snap them up, create better products at a cheaper price and crush the competition, thus causing misogynistic white males to lose their jobs and fade away.

    It’s Darwinism at its finest.

    If evil white (but not Jewish) guys are blocking perfectly good blacks and Hispanics from getting loans, woke white bankers will step and make those profitable loans. This will increase their profits, allowing those banks to eventually overtake the evil, racists banks.

    This would happen in every field and in every way until mean white guys either figured out that they were wrong or were left unemployed and pointless.

    The fact that this Darwinian process doesn’t happen shows that it’s not evil whites keeping PoC and women down – again, not that anyone cares.

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    • Agree: Jim Don Bob
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    You speak a ton of inconvenient truth. Another inconvenient truth, underlying this entire discussion, is that homeownership isn't quite the unalloyed and universal good it's presented as in the MSM.

    There are many unacknowledged costs associated with homeownership, including things like maintenance on your house, any sort of refurbishment that you might have to undertake, and any sort of emergency repairs.

    Not to mention skyrocketing real-estate taxes, skyrocketing insurance premiums, and yes--new roofs, appliance replacement, new sewer lines or septic systems, landscaping and tree removals, driveway repaving, interior and exterior painting every time you turn around, endless plumbing and electrical work, and on and on.

    Owning a decent property and keeping it in good repair is far more costly than renting a comparable place, for which not a single one of the aforementioned costs need be footed.

    Yet our fearless leaders fall over themselves to subsidize 'homeownership' and then even bail out those who take on more mortgage than they can afford. Never bothering to worry about these extra costs which they surely won't be able to afford either.

    As if there weren't enough pressures turning the USA into a third-world country, we're subsidizing the creation of slums coast-to-coast.

    , @Anonymous
    This assumes, of course, that markets are efficient.

    In engineering terms, markets always have some efficiency, but never one hundred percent, and some markets are quite poor. Nevertheless, markets have proven efficient enough that if there were any sizable number of discriminated-against female programmers who were underemployed because female, someone would capitalize on this to some extent, and essentially no one is. (There is the case in the UK a long time ago of that woman who hired other women and had them code at home, I can't remember her name, but that involved routine COBOL type stuff.)

    Few women really want to be and are particularly good at being developers and of those, most are fairly successful. The only field that I know of where there is some legitimacy to the claim of women genuinely being disadvantaged against by attitudes and work environment is that of game development, which is a high testosterone environment.
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  94. @songbird
    This is one of my favorite liberal/Hollywood myths. Blacks just can't get ahead because banks don't want to make money. They are prejudiced against sure bets, if the sure bets are black.

    In America, which has more banks by leaps and bounds than any other country, maybe even more banks than the rest of the world combined, none is willing to make sure bets, if the bets are black. Meanwhile, no blacks have pooled together their savings to make sure bets on blacks. And Jews who in general express so much love of blacks, have no money at all to spare to make sure black bets.

    This is one of my favorite liberal/Hollywood myths. Blacks just can’t get ahead because banks don’t want to make money. They are prejudiced against sure bets, if the sure bets are black.

    Excellent comment songbird.

    I’d throw in it’s not just “one” myth. A huge swathe of the nonsense the left peddles–racism!, sexism!–is basically the assertion that markets are just not working. There are millions of blacks out there with decent incomes who’ve kept themselves out of the credit card hole and who’ve carefully saved up their down payment … and racist loan officers are denying them loans, cause black. There are millions of gals who love tinkering with computers and just want to sit in an office all day drinking Mountain Dew and editing code, but Silicon Valley hiring managers won’t hire them because they hate the thought of their bouncy breasts and bottoms corrupting their hallowed hallways.

    The mind reels.

    Back in real world America we’re jammed packed with marketing pitches to blacks and women and businesses will do anything to make a buck, and will even loop over a hurdle or two to prove that they are fully PC compliant.

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    • Replies: @bomag

    I’d throw in it’s not just “one” myth.
     
    Yes. Also throw in racist cabbies and pizza delivery persons; the usual like to claim that there is money left on the table, but I don't notice them picking it up. They would much rather have the gov't mandate behavior.
    , @biz
    Yes.

    There seems to be this complete disconnect in left wing thought these days between a) Marxist economic analysis which says that capitalism is so naturally efficient that corporations will squeeze every last possible dime out of workers, consumers, and society until everyone is chained to a sewing machine making 2 cents an hour, and b) the standard identity politics line that you mention where corporations are leaving trillions of dollars of easy money on the table, refusing to hire the best workers and make loans to the best borrowers, because they are being run stupidly by Biff and Buffy from the country club.

    Which one is it??

    One of the saddest parts is that there is -some- truth to analysis a). Maximizing shareholder value is often not synonymous with worker or consumer well being, a point which libertarians still refuse to realize.
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  95. Money grubbers have piled big loot into building apartment rental units in order to profit from open borders mass immigration and the high costs of single family housing. The Republican Party has just proved with their votes that the majority of them want mass legal immigration to continue unabated forever in order to lower wages, increase housing costs and create profits for those who benefit from mass immigration.

    Some young Republican Party political leader has to make AFFORDABLE FAMILY FORMATION an issue in the upcoming GOP congressional primaries. This GOP leader should call for an immigration moratorium and tie that into killing the investments of the greedy mass immigration hogs who are building apartments in hopes of profiting from the demand caused by mass immigration.

    You could also call for mass deportations of ALL illegal alien invaders and the denaturalization and deportation of millions of recent legal immigrants. The idea is to provoke attacks upon your positions by the GOP ruling class in order to wedge the voting public away from the scum who run the GOP.

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  96. @whorefinder
    Orwell strike again.

    Because no one is allowed to argue in corporate and official publications that blacks and "Latinos" are worse people to loan money to that whites and Asians, there is no defense from the charge that it is "racism" or "systemic oppression" or "discrimination" preventing blacks and "Latinos" from getting loans at the same rates of Asians and whites.

    Until we are allowed to discuss in public and on TV and in court and in Congress that race and ethnicity are actually and causally connected to things such as violent crime or loan trustworthiness, we will continue to lose. Race is one of the main issues the left has used to push forward a ton of its goals since the 1960s, and they have denied us the viable defenses.

    It's like a murder trial where A kills B during a fight and the judge bars A from arguing self-defense, even though there's video evidence of B pulling out a gun and stating beforehand he was going to goad A into a fight so he could kill him. What are the odds A can escape a guilty verdict?

    A has four bad choices and no good ones: (1) plead guilty and throw himself on the mercy of the court; (2) try some convoluted alternate defense that will be too complicated to make sense to the average person involving a claim that he did not kill B even though B died by A's hand; (3) blaming someone else; or (4) stubbornly claim self-defense even after the court finds him in contempt and tells the jury not to pay attention to A and physically has him gagged for saying it.

    Again, what are the odds A can escape a guilty verdict?

    What are the odds of winning an argument about racism when you can't argue differences in race?

    There is a lot of foreclosures in LA and OC lately and there is lending to illegal immigrants again since they advertised to get people to lend money that speak Spanish. This time there are a lot more investors that scoop up the houses and eventually make them rentals. Most major cities in the US are now rental markets even Texas big cities like Austin and Houston are closed to having major rental markets since they have lots of Latinos.

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  97. anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    It was wrong in the first place for government to force its will on banks in the first place. The push for equality and fairness was never about help non-whites. The Jewish push for fairness and equality was a way to harm and hurt the enemy of the Jews, civilized whites and white Christian society.

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  98. @Chris Marsk
    The "Case Study: Philadelphia" is one of those "There's got to be a "Rest of the Story'" things. It paints multiple banks as so ridiculously Satanic (not to mention irrational to their own self interest) that it reminded me of the "A Rape on Campus" anedote where four of bloodied Jackie's male and female friends suddenly decide they shouldn't call the police because it might tank their chances of getting invited to parties.

    Lenders and their trade organizations do not dispute the fact that they turn away people of color at rates far greater than whites. But they maintain that the disparity can be explained by two factors the industry has fought to keep hidden: the prospective borrowers’ credit history and overall debt-to-income ratio. They singled out the three-digit credit score - which banks use to determine whether a borrower is likely to repay a loan - as especially important in lending decisions.
     

    At the same time, studies have found proprietary credit score algorithms to have a discriminatory impact on borrowers of color.
     
    Disparate impact!

    The “decades-old credit scoring model” currently used “does not take into account consumer data on rent, utility, and cellphone bill payments,” Republican Sen. Tim Scott of South Carolina wrote in August, when he unveiled a bill to require the federal government to vet credit standards used for residential mortgages. “This exclusion disproportionately hurts African-Americans, Latinos, and young people who are otherwise creditworthy.”
     
    Here's one explanation of credit scores, which would seem to take into account utility payments:

    https://www.thebalance.com/how-credit-scores-work-315541


    The FICO credit score looks at how much debt you have, how you’ve repaid in the past, and more. Scores fall anywhere between 300 and 850 and are made up of the following components:

    35% Payment History – have you missed payments or defaulted on loans?
    30% Amounts Owed – how much do you owe (and are you maxed out)?
    15% Length of Credit – is borrowing new to you?
    10% New Credit – have you applied for numerous loans in the recent past?
    10% Type of Credit – do you have a healthy mix of different types of debt (auto, home, credit cards, and others)?

     

    They couldn't find one expert or actuary to interview who would speculate on why, perhaps, the couple in the article, or blacks in general, might get approved less frequently? Offer anonymity -- they do that to sources all the time.

    Back to Philadelphia:


    When Faroul applied for a loan in April 2016, she thought she was an ideal candidate. She holds a degree from Northwestern University, had a good credit score and estimates she was making $60,000 a year while teaching computer programming as a contractor for Rutgers University. Still, her initial loan application was denied by Philadelphia Mortgage Advisors, an independent broker that made nearly 90 percent of its loans to whites in 2015 and 2016.

    “I’m sorry,” broker Angela Tobin wrote to Faroul in an email. Faroul’s contract income wasn’t consistent enough, she said. So Faroul got a full-time job at the University of Pennsylvania managing a million-dollar grant.

    But that still wasn’t enough. When she tried again a year later, this time at Santander Bank, a Spanish firm with U.S. headquarters in Boston, the process dragged on for months. Eventually, an unpaid $284 electric bill appeared on Faroul’s credit report. She paid the bill right away, but it still tanked her credit score, and the bank said it couldn’t move forward.
     

    Degree from Northwestern: All a college degree is, is signalling to employers. Banks care about jobs, employers care about degrees. But what was her degree in? Computer science or computer engineering, maybe? Wow, a black and a woman with a computer engineering degree. Impressive! Uh, why isn't she working as a developer? Google is looking for black, lesbian developers, I hear. So something fishy is going on here.

    The article mentioned $60,000 income. The bank mentioned "inconsistent income." So Mr. "investigative reporter" from The Center for Investigative Reporting, here's where your ask your subject for more detail. Tax returns for the past 5 or 10 years. You owe that to the banks you're about to defame. Ask for college degree and major. Does the school verify it. Ask why she seems to be underemployed for her major, if she did in fact study computer science rather than critical race theory. Why did she hop from computer teaching to grant management rather than to a better computer industry job? How long had she worked as a grant manager? If less than 2 years, the bank is going to want to wait a bit.

    There's still a lot of weird stuff in that story, like why a part-time grocery clerk got a loan. It's all so strange that it was not ready for prime time in an article until the reporter untangled all this stuff.

    [Santander Bank] said it couldn’t move forward.

    To defend Faroul, I don’t like when people and companies pretend like they have no agency. Santander could have moved forward with her loan, they just chose not to. Also, banks make money by making loans, so they shouldn’t act like they are doing you a favor by making you one.

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  99. @Chris Marsk
    The "Case Study: Philadelphia" is one of those "There's got to be a "Rest of the Story'" things. It paints multiple banks as so ridiculously Satanic (not to mention irrational to their own self interest) that it reminded me of the "A Rape on Campus" anedote where four of bloodied Jackie's male and female friends suddenly decide they shouldn't call the police because it might tank their chances of getting invited to parties.

    Lenders and their trade organizations do not dispute the fact that they turn away people of color at rates far greater than whites. But they maintain that the disparity can be explained by two factors the industry has fought to keep hidden: the prospective borrowers’ credit history and overall debt-to-income ratio. They singled out the three-digit credit score - which banks use to determine whether a borrower is likely to repay a loan - as especially important in lending decisions.
     

    At the same time, studies have found proprietary credit score algorithms to have a discriminatory impact on borrowers of color.
     
    Disparate impact!

    The “decades-old credit scoring model” currently used “does not take into account consumer data on rent, utility, and cellphone bill payments,” Republican Sen. Tim Scott of South Carolina wrote in August, when he unveiled a bill to require the federal government to vet credit standards used for residential mortgages. “This exclusion disproportionately hurts African-Americans, Latinos, and young people who are otherwise creditworthy.”
     
    Here's one explanation of credit scores, which would seem to take into account utility payments:

    https://www.thebalance.com/how-credit-scores-work-315541


    The FICO credit score looks at how much debt you have, how you’ve repaid in the past, and more. Scores fall anywhere between 300 and 850 and are made up of the following components:

    35% Payment History – have you missed payments or defaulted on loans?
    30% Amounts Owed – how much do you owe (and are you maxed out)?
    15% Length of Credit – is borrowing new to you?
    10% New Credit – have you applied for numerous loans in the recent past?
    10% Type of Credit – do you have a healthy mix of different types of debt (auto, home, credit cards, and others)?

     

    They couldn't find one expert or actuary to interview who would speculate on why, perhaps, the couple in the article, or blacks in general, might get approved less frequently? Offer anonymity -- they do that to sources all the time.

    Back to Philadelphia:


    When Faroul applied for a loan in April 2016, she thought she was an ideal candidate. She holds a degree from Northwestern University, had a good credit score and estimates she was making $60,000 a year while teaching computer programming as a contractor for Rutgers University. Still, her initial loan application was denied by Philadelphia Mortgage Advisors, an independent broker that made nearly 90 percent of its loans to whites in 2015 and 2016.

    “I’m sorry,” broker Angela Tobin wrote to Faroul in an email. Faroul’s contract income wasn’t consistent enough, she said. So Faroul got a full-time job at the University of Pennsylvania managing a million-dollar grant.

    But that still wasn’t enough. When she tried again a year later, this time at Santander Bank, a Spanish firm with U.S. headquarters in Boston, the process dragged on for months. Eventually, an unpaid $284 electric bill appeared on Faroul’s credit report. She paid the bill right away, but it still tanked her credit score, and the bank said it couldn’t move forward.
     

    Degree from Northwestern: All a college degree is, is signalling to employers. Banks care about jobs, employers care about degrees. But what was her degree in? Computer science or computer engineering, maybe? Wow, a black and a woman with a computer engineering degree. Impressive! Uh, why isn't she working as a developer? Google is looking for black, lesbian developers, I hear. So something fishy is going on here.

    The article mentioned $60,000 income. The bank mentioned "inconsistent income." So Mr. "investigative reporter" from The Center for Investigative Reporting, here's where your ask your subject for more detail. Tax returns for the past 5 or 10 years. You owe that to the banks you're about to defame. Ask for college degree and major. Does the school verify it. Ask why she seems to be underemployed for her major, if she did in fact study computer science rather than critical race theory. Why did she hop from computer teaching to grant management rather than to a better computer industry job? How long had she worked as a grant manager? If less than 2 years, the bank is going to want to wait a bit.

    There's still a lot of weird stuff in that story, like why a part-time grocery clerk got a loan. It's all so strange that it was not ready for prime time in an article until the reporter untangled all this stuff.

    Tim Scott wants utility companies and landlords to report whether or not every customer has paid their bill on time to credit reporting agencies so they can include it in FICO scores? What a waste of time for them, plus it wouldn’t have helped in the example the AP reporter used because she had a utility collection.

    Faroul applies for loans from Philadelphia Mortgage Advisors and Santander Bank, I doubt she did her regular banking with either of those banks. Why didn’t she apply with Wells Fargo? They have branches all over the metro area and love to talk about how committed they are to minority lending. Did she even talk to someone at her regular bank about getting a mortgage?

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    • Replies: @Ed
    Many blacks can’t pay their utility bills either. How would this help?
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  100. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Brutusale
    It already exists. It's about as well-run as you'd imagine.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OneUnited_Bank

    Reading the Wikipedia history of this black-owned bank, and all the other bankrupt black-owned banks it merged with, is hilarious.

    In 2001 the institution merged with Founders National Bank of Los Angeles, of which the majority owners were former professional basketball player and businessman Earvin “Magic” Johnson, musician Janet Jackson, and former Motown Records President Jheryl Busby.

    Boston Bank of Commerce rebranded as OneUnited Bank.

    OneUnited Bank offers an annual financial literacy essay contest for youth, and President Teri Williams wrote a children’s book, I Got Bank! What My Granddad Taught Me About Money, to teach financial literacy to urban youth.

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  101. @AnotherDad

    This is one of my favorite liberal/Hollywood myths. Blacks just can’t get ahead because banks don’t want to make money. They are prejudiced against sure bets, if the sure bets are black.
     
    Excellent comment songbird.

    I'd throw in it's not just "one" myth. A huge swathe of the nonsense the left peddles--racism!, sexism!--is basically the assertion that markets are just not working. There are millions of blacks out there with decent incomes who've kept themselves out of the credit card hole and who've carefully saved up their down payment ... and racist loan officers are denying them loans, cause black. There are millions of gals who love tinkering with computers and just want to sit in an office all day drinking Mountain Dew and editing code, but Silicon Valley hiring managers won't hire them because they hate the thought of their bouncy breasts and bottoms corrupting their hallowed hallways.

    The mind reels.

    Back in real world America we're jammed packed with marketing pitches to blacks and women and businesses will do anything to make a buck, and will even loop over a hurdle or two to prove that they are fully PC compliant.

    I’d throw in it’s not just “one” myth.

    Yes. Also throw in racist cabbies and pizza delivery persons; the usual like to claim that there is money left on the table, but I don’t notice them picking it up. They would much rather have the gov’t mandate behavior.

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  102. The bankers want more debt. They don’t care what kind of propaganda slop they got to use to get it.

    DEBT and DEMOGRAPHY

    The bankers who own and run the privately-controlled Federal Reserve Bank want more debt. If the debt comes from Blacks and Mestizos who won’t pay their mortgage, who cares? They will sell the debt and make their money and wait for the next asset bubble to pop. Churn and burn.

    This Tweet from 2014 takes us back to 1993 and Peter Brimelow writing about the Boston Fed pushing the housing discrimination crap to get more loans:

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  103. @whorefinder
    Chris Kattan is one of those guys very popular with SNL-insiders but who never got over with the audience. Will Farrell seemed to have a particular connection with him.

    I personally find Kattan off-putting. He is just so smarmy and faggy.

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    • Agree: whorefinder
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  104. @27 year old

    Um, remember the housing crash of just a few years back? You could see those red notices on front doors not only in notorious neighborhoods, but in nice middle-class areas.

    Some people aren’t in a position to handle a mortgage, no matter how good their intentions may be. So… DON’T LET THEM HAVE ONE.
     
    Hooah! And then they can PULL THEMSELVES UP BY THEIR BOOTSTRAPS.

    How about instead we fix it so that ordinary working people can conceivably buy property without a lifetime of debt? Or at minimum, fix it so ordinary working people can conceivably expect to maintain a job with a sufficient income for their whole working lives, so they can pay a mortgage.

    Rich conservatives love to look down their noses at people and say they're financially irresponsible. The plants all shut down and the jobs are outsourced and the service economy wages have been slashed by continuous immigration... but Joe Sixpack "can't handle a mortgage" because he's just a flakey idiot.

    There were so many foreclosures in "nice" neighborhoods because people had a choice, they could buy lower priced housing in school districts with lots of nonWhites and hope their kids didn't get beaten and raped, or they could take the funny money the nice man was offering them and buy a ridiculous McMansion surrounded by other White people.

    Um, they can rent. In a nice school district.

    My grandparents rented most of their lives. My parents were of that generation that could get a house on mortgage, and gradually pay it off, but for most people of my generation, it’s back to renting. Could be worse: for millennials, that means renting in their parents’ basement. They’re back to pre-WWI life, when having several generations in the same house was standard practice. The nuclear family was very much a 20th-century thing.

    Part of being financially responsible is recognizing what kind of economy you’re dealing with, and being practical about it. The boom years of post WWII and the Reagan era were lovely, but they are over. As to how to fix the economy so working people can have a better life, people have been trying to figure that out forever. So far, no one has found a means of sustaining long-term prosperity without taking the goodies from someone else. Better rent than Red.

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    • Replies: @Charles Pewitt
    The debt binge of the last few decades has stolen demand from the future. Young people should immediately declare that they are not paying the governemnt debt. Implode this fake economy and start over. Of course, most people born before 1965 would be financially liquidated. So be it, they must pay for what they have done to the United States.

    ODIOUS DEBT debate heating up.
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  105. from the article:

    She holds a degree from Northwestern University, had a good credit score and estimates she was making $60,000 a year while teaching computer programming as a contractor for Rutgers University. Still, her initial loan application was denied by Philadelphia Mortgage Advisors, an independent broker that made nearly 90 percent of its loans to whites in 2015 and 2016.

    Hmm, teaching as a contractor? One only has to read slightly between the lines here to guess that she was probably a part time adjunct at the time, one of the most notoriously underpaid and insecure jobs out there. They usually have no guarantee of employment beyond the present academic year. That’s a huge red flag to loan providers. The reporter could have just stated her job title accurately, but then of course it would have made sense that she could have been denied for a loan. So instead he went with the tortured phrasing. 95% of readers will be skimming it and come away thinking “OMG how could a computer programmer be denied a loan???”

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    • Replies: @Rosamond Vincy
    You are correct. In addition, she may not have any benefits at all, and her assignment might end far sooner than the current academic year: she might have no sections as soon as next semester, or for some schools, next quarter...12 weeks.

    Last but not least, she wished to purchase "a brick row house close to Malcolm X Park in Philadelphia, where African Americans were 2.7 times as likely as whites to be denied a conventional mortgage." How many whites are likely to APPLY for a house "close to Malcolm X Park in Philadelphia"? Does anyone seriously think that such property as any more desirable than Chris Rock's depiction of streets named MLK?

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=7hJxWr1TKK8
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  106. anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Jenner Ickham Errican
    The whole thing’s both sad and farcical. It’s odd that someone for years can get away with so much crazy behavior and crimes (self harm, theft, major vandalism, killing animals for fun, showing off knives at school, etc. etc.) and not be either criminally convicted or institutionalized.

    If Cruz had been involuntarily committed to a psych hospital for even just a short period of time, he would not have passed a background check to legally buy his gun.

    It’s odd that someone for years can get away with so much crazy behavior and crimes (self harm, theft, major vandalism, killing animals for fun, showing off knives at school, etc. etc.) and not be either criminally convicted or institutionalized.

    The “juvenile” law and involuntary commitment procedures are big impediments. Nothing will be done to change that I fear.

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  107. @the one they call Desanex
    “... what color are Asians?”

    Steve, I’ve posted this here before: Asians are a vibrant shade of pale (an allusion to the old Procol Harum song “A Whiter Shade of Pale”.) Feel free to use this if you like it.

    Feel free to use this if you like it.

    Declined. :(

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    • Replies: @the one they call Desanex
    Who asked you, Website?
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  108. @Rosamond Vincy
    Um, they can rent. In a nice school district.

    My grandparents rented most of their lives. My parents were of that generation that could get a house on mortgage, and gradually pay it off, but for most people of my generation, it's back to renting. Could be worse: for millennials, that means renting in their parents' basement. They're back to pre-WWI life, when having several generations in the same house was standard practice. The nuclear family was very much a 20th-century thing.

    Part of being financially responsible is recognizing what kind of economy you're dealing with, and being practical about it. The boom years of post WWII and the Reagan era were lovely, but they are over. As to how to fix the economy so working people can have a better life, people have been trying to figure that out forever. So far, no one has found a means of sustaining long-term prosperity without taking the goodies from someone else. Better rent than Red.

    The debt binge of the last few decades has stolen demand from the future. Young people should immediately declare that they are not paying the governemnt debt. Implode this fake economy and start over. Of course, most people born before 1965 would be financially liquidated. So be it, they must pay for what they have done to the United States.

    ODIOUS DEBT debate heating up.

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    • Agree: fish
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  109. @AnotherDad

    This is one of my favorite liberal/Hollywood myths. Blacks just can’t get ahead because banks don’t want to make money. They are prejudiced against sure bets, if the sure bets are black.
     
    Excellent comment songbird.

    I'd throw in it's not just "one" myth. A huge swathe of the nonsense the left peddles--racism!, sexism!--is basically the assertion that markets are just not working. There are millions of blacks out there with decent incomes who've kept themselves out of the credit card hole and who've carefully saved up their down payment ... and racist loan officers are denying them loans, cause black. There are millions of gals who love tinkering with computers and just want to sit in an office all day drinking Mountain Dew and editing code, but Silicon Valley hiring managers won't hire them because they hate the thought of their bouncy breasts and bottoms corrupting their hallowed hallways.

    The mind reels.

    Back in real world America we're jammed packed with marketing pitches to blacks and women and businesses will do anything to make a buck, and will even loop over a hurdle or two to prove that they are fully PC compliant.

    Yes.

    There seems to be this complete disconnect in left wing thought these days between a) Marxist economic analysis which says that capitalism is so naturally efficient that corporations will squeeze every last possible dime out of workers, consumers, and society until everyone is chained to a sewing machine making 2 cents an hour, and b) the standard identity politics line that you mention where corporations are leaving trillions of dollars of easy money on the table, refusing to hire the best workers and make loans to the best borrowers, because they are being run stupidly by Biff and Buffy from the country club.

    Which one is it??

    One of the saddest parts is that there is -some- truth to analysis a). Maximizing shareholder value is often not synonymous with worker or consumer well being, a point which libertarians still refuse to realize.

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  110. @Yan Shen

    By the way, if blacks and browns are People of Color, but whites and Asians are not, then what color are Asians?

    Invisible color?
     

    Asian Americans, in particular those of East Asian descent, are one of the smallest minority groups in America and are undoubtedly people of color. They're also the most openly discriminated against group in this country, as the recent lawsuits against Harvard or our general willingness to tolerate anti-Asian bigotry shows.

    Sadly, the racist mainstream media consistently ignores East Asians in our national discourse on race. When will these so called progressives own up to their hate?

    What color are we?

    Bertrand Russell was once denied entrance to some place or other because it was only for ‘colored people’. He said, “We are colored. We are pink.”

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    • Replies: @AnotherDad

    “We are colored. We are pink.”
     
    Especially when we go out in the sun.
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  111. @Stan Adams
    We know far more about Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold than we do about any of their spiritual successors.

    About ten years ago, I went through a true-crime phase and read everything I could find about the Columbine massacre. (Virtually every single police interview with every single person who was inside the school is available online, unredacted.)

    The “definitive” book about the case was written by a gay guy who claims that Harris was a swaggering psychopath who “got lots and lots of chicks” and “outscored the football team,” while Klebold was his cowering sidekick. But that conclusion simply doesn’t jibe with the established facts.

    Harris was a short, scrawny incel boiling over with gamma rage. Klebold may or may not have been the weaker personality, but there’s no question that both boys were consumed with self-loathing. The bullying aspect was overrated, but both kids were undoubtedly among the butt-monkeys of the senior class.

    “Everything about the established facts” suggests Harris never got seriously bullied. He was not that short at 5’7, he had a date to his freshman homecoming, and he had plenty of friends. He did seem to develop some sort of psychological problem in high school though, where he did pointlessly edgy things like faking a suicide for attention. Harris also had a lengthy history of low level juvenile delinquency- smashing windshields, breaking into vehicles, setting off firecrackers in alleys. He likely had delusions of grandeur exacerbated by his medication.

    Klebold likely was bullied some and was depressed though. But even he still had a date to prom, something half of high school guys don’t get.

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    • Replies: @Stan Adams
    Dylan's mother wrote the following in her book:

    Once, during sophomore year, Dylan said something to Tom [Dylan's father] about “hating the jocks.” Tom asked him if they were giving him a hard time, and Dylan answered with confidence: “They don't bother me. I'm six four. But they sure give Eric hell.”
     
    Eric himself wrote:

    Everyone is always making fun of me because of how I look, how fucking weak I am and shit, well I will get you all back: ultimate fucking revenge here. you people could have shown more respect, treated me better, asked for my knowledge or guidence more, treated me more like senior, and maybe I wouldn't have been as ready to tear your fucking heads off. then again, I have always hated how I looked, I make fun of people who look like me, sometimes without even thinking sometimes just because I want to rip on myself. Thats where a lot of my hate grows from, the fact that I have practically no selfesteem, especially concerning girls and looks and such. therefore people make fun of me... constantly... therefore I get no respect and therefore I get fucking PISSED.
     
    http://www.acolumbinesite.com/eric/writing/journal/journal.php

    An interesting aspect of Columbine is that we have fairly extensive documentation of the boys' lives before the massacre, including video clips of their "typical" activities at the school:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MvquFYMMOrg#t=1m44s

    This clip is often cited as evidence that Harris was bullied. I wouldn't go that far, but I do find it interesting to observe his body language.

    From 1:45 to roughly 1:59, Harris (wearing the black "Tour '97" T-shirt) acts normally, but when he sees the group of guys walking toward him, he tenses up and looks straight ahead, steeling himself for a confrontation.

    (Note that the jock on the far right side of the screen is flipping the bird. Also note that it was not Dylan who was holding the camera, but Erik Veik - a friend of Eric and Dylan's who, several months after the massacre, was arrested for threatening to "finish the job.")

    At 2:04, as Harris nears the jocks, he lowers his head, avoiding eye contact with the larger boys, in a classic display of submission. He cowers like a little dog.

    The vitriol he spews in his journal is the impotent rage of a gamma male who cannot abide life's little humiliations.
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  112. So far, no one has found a means of sustaining long-term prosperity without taking the goodies from someone else.

    The “goodies” were delivered to greedy slobs born before 1965 who stole demand from the future. The government debt built up over the last few decades was a means by which greedy slobs could improve their living standards by stealing demand from the future. Debt is stolen demand from the future.

    This why I like the Battle of Hastings example from William the Conqueror’s Norman Invasion to describe changes in political structures. When the Normans were victorious they wiped out the Saxons. Young people in European Christian nations are going to have to financially wipe out those born before 1965 and figure out a way to keep them wiped out. That is the only way to stop nation-wrecking mass immigration and all the other anti-White nonsense the ruling classes use to crush the young White people.

    The next global financial implosion is coming along and the young White people in European Christian nations should welcome it.

    Remember 1981 and 22 percent federal funds rate? let’s do it again so as to financially wipe out those born before 1965. Sounds like fun and it will help young White people with AFFORDABLE FAMILY FORMATION!

    European Christendom is being destroyed by the greed of Whites born before 1965. There is no doubt about that.

    Demography and Debt are the whole ballgame.

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    • Replies: @Rosamond Vincy
    Unfortunately, Cuspers (cusp of late Boomer and early Gen X) fall into your demographics, and they're not doing all that well, compared to their parents, although they're still better off than Millennials--unless they were part of a downsizing, and after being heaved out of a decades-long professional career, had to seek a McJob or go on benefits.
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  113. @Art Deco
    Again, the banks received bridge loans, which they paid back with interest. The institutions actually bailed out were the GSEs, the auto industry components, and AIG.

    What actually happened was that Bank of America bought Countrywide. Whatever they anticipated, they discovered that 46% of Countrywide's loan portfolio was sour. B o A might have been able to swallow that. What they proved unable to swallow without assistance was Merrill Lynch.

    Art he said “fail”. There were banks that failed. I had a CD in one–IndyMac–because it paid top of the market interest rates. It was doing all sorts of subprime and b.s. lending in SoCal. FDIC had to close it up, auction off the assets–most became OneWestBank–then wind down the garbage. It cost the taxpayers real money. I’m sure there were others.

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    • Replies: @Art Deco
    Art he said “fail”. There were banks that failed. I

    What happens in a conventional bank failure is that the supervisory authority (a state banking supervisor, the Comptroller of the Currency, &c) places the bank in receivership. The FDIC acts as receiver. The banks shareholders and creditors lose their stakes or receive haircuts per their position in a standard queue, with the severity of the losses depending on the bank's degree of insolvency. First, the equity holders lose their investment, then the bondholders lose theirs, then losses are imposed on those holding commercial paper and on those with uninsured deposits. The bank is sold off to another bank which acquires its residual obligations (the deposits), its loan portfolio, and its securities, vault cash, and miscellaneous assets. Sometimes there is no sale and the FDIC re-opens the bank as a federal bank and operates it for an indeterminate period of times. On other occasions, the bank is simply liquidated and the FDIC cuts checks to the insured depositors. It's a rapid process for apportioning losses, not a 'bailout'. The only people who might be bailed out are the insured depositors. There are no special favors incorporated into doing that. Deposit insurance has been the law since 1933.

    What was atypical during the most recent financial crisis was that the FDIC elected to guarantee bank bonds issued during the period running from the end of 2008 to the middle of 2012.

    The FDIC is an actuarial pool financed by member fees. It can borrow from the Treasury if needs be, but doesn't typically tap that source.

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  114. Speaking of default rates, 49% of blacks default on student loans within 12 years of starting college. Blacks are more likely to default than whites or Hispanics in every measurable category. The default rate for college graduates is 9% overall, 6% for whites, 14% for Hispanics, and 23% for blacks. The default rate for black dropouts is 65%, 75% if they attended a private for-profit institution.

    https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2017/10/17/half-black-student-loan-borrowers-default-new-federal-data-show

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    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    I really don't like for-profit colleges.
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  115. @B. Daddy
    The problem with black home ownership is when you own a house, you're de facto running a small business, and attention must be paid, every day, or you suffer the fiscal consequences directly, and sometimes dramatically. There's a lot to say about timing, and judgement, when you own a home.

    Typically, black folks just ain't down wit dat. They'll let a relatively small problem turn into a massive problem, with no sense of urgency to rectify it. Next thing they know, they're out on the street.

    You could have a mold issue that might cost a grand to fix, but if you let it go for a few years, it could take 100K to fix. Same goes for... you name it. Also, delaying gratification isn't what too many black folks like to do, so when they want a flash car, new furniture, and giant flat screen, and have an option to refinance their loan to make it happen, they'll tend to do it, despite the obvious consequences a couple of years later.

    American black culture is generally NOT congruent with home ownership.

    The manifestation of black culture comes from being slaves, and that's why so many adhere to it to they very day. They enjoy being on welfare, blaming "massa" for not seeing to their needs. Employing "trickery" to get ahead. It's the entire reason they were bamboozled into joining the Democratic party! To give up being a democrat would be to emancipate themselves psychologically at the most profound level, and they're NOT ready for that yet. They're just not. Even African and Haitian blacks point and laugh at American blacks, for good reason.

    When you see a grand exodus of American Blacks convert into card-carrying members of the Republican or even Libertarian party, you can take for granted that successful black home ownership will increase dramatically.

    Guaranteed.

    Until then, I'm afraid black folks complaining about "redlining" are just "Negroes talkin' shit in the cotton fields." Ain't no need to pay them no mind no how.

    About 46% of the black population lives in owner-occupied housing (v. 68% of the white population). Since the black population is less affluent and more urbanized, that’s not terribly surprising.

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    • Replies: @stillCARealist
    Interesting. I assume that breaks down differently among the states. Here in suburban CA I see very little black homeownership. Not none, but very little.
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  116. @Daniel Williams

    Also inconvenient to alt-right’s claims of white supremacy, exceptionalism, etc.
     
    You've been misinformed about the alt-right. We don't think any of those things about Asians; we wish Asians would go about their business in Asia and not trouble us in our nations.

    I’m not saying all alt-righters think this way. But, there are some who do. They even comment thusly here.

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  117. @Anon
    The latest figures from the U.S. Census Bureau show the median net worth for an African American family is now $9,000, compared with $132,000 for a white family. Latino families did not fare much better at $12,000.

    Did they count up all the bling? Blacks hold a lot in bling. Blacks need a system of exchange called Bitbling.

    http://www.chicagomag.com/Chicago-Magazine/Felsenthal-Files/August-2013/Rolex/

    I had a black tenant once tell me (unsolicited) that the reason blacks like jewelry is because it’s easy to pawn when times get rough. Of course, it looks like a lot of it is fake, but it does have some logic as well in instances in which someone actually has real gold or diamonds.

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    • Replies: @William Badwhite
    Good grief that's hilarious. What kind of haircut do pawn brokers take on jewelry, 40% or more?

    I also have assets to tap in case times get rough - they're in what's known as "savings".
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  118. @Yan Shen

    By the way, if blacks and browns are People of Color, but whites and Asians are not, then what color are Asians?

    Invisible color?
     

    Asian Americans, in particular those of East Asian descent, are one of the smallest minority groups in America and are undoubtedly people of color. They're also the most openly discriminated against group in this country, as the recent lawsuits against Harvard or our general willingness to tolerate anti-Asian bigotry shows.

    Sadly, the racist mainstream media consistently ignores East Asians in our national discourse on race. When will these so called progressives own up to their hate?

    They’re also the most openly discriminated against group in this country,

    This is a straight-up lie.

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  119. Read More
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  120. Having experience in affordable housing, I can certainly say that it is very common for black applicants to have significantly more consumer debt than other groups, and far more likely to have newer leased cars, big TVs and the like than other people. I wouldn’t say it’s anything like a majority, but in a large property with people from a lot of different backgrounds, if you saw a car that was less than 3 years old it always belonged to a black tenant, without exception.

    At one property with subsidized rents where tenants paid only about half of the going rate for comparable ‘market rate’ rentals, we had households making $60k or more a year a year who didn’t even have a thousand bucks in their bank accounts despite the rent only being about 10% of their income. The rest of the money went to paying off credit cards they used to buy a bunch of stuff they really couldn’t afford.

    Prior to the housing bust, we had half a dozen people leave because a local community non-profit was offering to pay for their down payment on a home, and I have no doubt about how that turned out in the end.

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  121. @AnotherDad
    Art he said "fail". There were banks that failed. I had a CD in one--IndyMac--because it paid top of the market interest rates. It was doing all sorts of subprime and b.s. lending in SoCal. FDIC had to close it up, auction off the assets--most became OneWestBank--then wind down the garbage. It cost the taxpayers real money. I'm sure there were others.

    Art he said “fail”. There were banks that failed. I

    What happens in a conventional bank failure is that the supervisory authority (a state banking supervisor, the Comptroller of the Currency, &c) places the bank in receivership. The FDIC acts as receiver. The banks shareholders and creditors lose their stakes or receive haircuts per their position in a standard queue, with the severity of the losses depending on the bank’s degree of insolvency. First, the equity holders lose their investment, then the bondholders lose theirs, then losses are imposed on those holding commercial paper and on those with uninsured deposits. The bank is sold off to another bank which acquires its residual obligations (the deposits), its loan portfolio, and its securities, vault cash, and miscellaneous assets. Sometimes there is no sale and the FDIC re-opens the bank as a federal bank and operates it for an indeterminate period of times. On other occasions, the bank is simply liquidated and the FDIC cuts checks to the insured depositors. It’s a rapid process for apportioning losses, not a ‘bailout’. The only people who might be bailed out are the insured depositors. There are no special favors incorporated into doing that. Deposit insurance has been the law since 1933.

    What was atypical during the most recent financial crisis was that the FDIC elected to guarantee bank bonds issued during the period running from the end of 2008 to the middle of 2012.

    The FDIC is an actuarial pool financed by member fees. It can borrow from the Treasury if needs be, but doesn’t typically tap that source.

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    • Replies: @AnotherDad
    You're right. I was shooting without precise aim. If FDIC didn't have to go back to the taxpayers, then those costs are ones everyone pays through the banking system.

    The big hit to the taxpayers this go round was through all the b.s. mortgages dumped on Fannie and Freddie, and bailout of AIG--because of CDOs.

    But the bottom line here is pretty clear. A bunch of folks--loan peddlers on commission, bank officers, mortgage company owners, some home builders, ex-pols living large at Fannie and Freddie, financial folks packaging and dumping CDOs and various financial sharpies (e.g. Goldman Sachs) betting on the right side of CDOs made a packet. Even some home buyers with zeros who managed to live in nice places rent free during foreclosure came out ok. While the taxpayers got fleeced for over a trillion dollars.

    And there was absolutely no need for any of it.
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  122. anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @whorefinder
    Orwell strike again.

    Because no one is allowed to argue in corporate and official publications that blacks and "Latinos" are worse people to loan money to that whites and Asians, there is no defense from the charge that it is "racism" or "systemic oppression" or "discrimination" preventing blacks and "Latinos" from getting loans at the same rates of Asians and whites.

    Until we are allowed to discuss in public and on TV and in court and in Congress that race and ethnicity are actually and causally connected to things such as violent crime or loan trustworthiness, we will continue to lose. Race is one of the main issues the left has used to push forward a ton of its goals since the 1960s, and they have denied us the viable defenses.

    It's like a murder trial where A kills B during a fight and the judge bars A from arguing self-defense, even though there's video evidence of B pulling out a gun and stating beforehand he was going to goad A into a fight so he could kill him. What are the odds A can escape a guilty verdict?

    A has four bad choices and no good ones: (1) plead guilty and throw himself on the mercy of the court; (2) try some convoluted alternate defense that will be too complicated to make sense to the average person involving a claim that he did not kill B even though B died by A's hand; (3) blaming someone else; or (4) stubbornly claim self-defense even after the court finds him in contempt and tells the jury not to pay attention to A and physically has him gagged for saying it.

    Again, what are the odds A can escape a guilty verdict?

    What are the odds of winning an argument about racism when you can't argue differences in race?

    Rather than “race and ethnicity are actually and causally connected to things such as violent crime or loan trustworthiness,” how about “race and ethnicity are actually and statistically correlated to things such as violent crime or loan trustworthiness, we will continue to lose”? Those playing identity politics bear the burden of proof — don’t go tribal!

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    • Replies: @whorefinder
    Tribalism wins. Truth wins. Reality wins.

    Civic nationalism loses.

    Race and ethnicity cause differences in violent crime rates and loan trustworthiness. Fact.

    Get over it.
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  123. @Jenner Ickham Errican
    The whole thing’s both sad and farcical. It’s odd that someone for years can get away with so much crazy behavior and crimes (self harm, theft, major vandalism, killing animals for fun, showing off knives at school, etc. etc.) and not be either criminally convicted or institutionalized.

    If Cruz had been involuntarily committed to a psych hospital for even just a short period of time, he would not have passed a background check to legally buy his gun.

    Right. The shooting at Virginia Tech was 10 years ago, and what has been done to deal with people who are known to be dangerous nuts? Absolutely nothing, because that would mean changing the law to make it easier to commit known wackos before they explode. Much more fun to rattle on about gun control.

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  124. What about all these numerous commercials that feature well groomed middle class black families applying for home loans? You mean to say that the part we don’t see was that in the end they didn’t get the loan?

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  125. @Buffalo Joe
    I have an idea. Why don't the liberals and SJWs and of course the Democrats found a bank, self finance it and lend mortgage money to all these POC who are denied loans. I am sure that if they approached all the donors that gave Hillary at least a billion for her failed campaign they could get the seed money to start. I just can't think of a proper name for this endeavor.

    Name? Last Chance Savings & Loan. It’s far easier to complain (and beat the dead horse) about the supposed unfairness, than to provide a workable solution.

    FICO credit scores were introduced to overcome redlining, and racial (and other non-credit related) discrimination in lending.

    Yet, like crime rates, too many believe that equal behavioral outcomes are a staple of life. Sadly, it’s not true. And unfortunately, too many believe that government can intervene to correct aberrant behavior in order to achieve equal outcomes–hence all the social engineering that arises from the blank slate post-modernists.

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    • Replies: @Buffalo Joe
    Forbes, Very well thought out reply. Thank You.
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  126. @Art Deco
    About 46% of the black population lives in owner-occupied housing (v. 68% of the white population). Since the black population is less affluent and more urbanized, that's not terribly surprising.

    Interesting. I assume that breaks down differently among the states. Here in suburban CA I see very little black homeownership. Not none, but very little.

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  127. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    In the same vein, BBC TV news today has been fixated over a just released report saying that young people in the UK are having an exceedingly hard time of becoming home owners.

    The fact that the UK population increased by something like 10 million persons – or 20%/- since the inception of the Blair/Economist regime in 1997, a period in which new housing starts was anemic – is, of course, never ever mentioned.

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  128. anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Daniel Williams

    Also inconvenient to alt-right’s claims of white supremacy, exceptionalism, etc.
     
    You've been misinformed about the alt-right. We don't think any of those things about Asians; we wish Asians would go about their business in Asia and not trouble us in our nations.

    Rejecting meritocracy for nepotism is morally wrong, especially from the Confucianist perspective.

    And no, no whataboutism there. Asian countries do all generally have clearly defined, and relatively liberal policies for skilled workers. Sure, they may favor co-ethnics for immigration and the pathway to citizenship may be more difficult for foreigners but they’ve never had purely racial policies as the alt-right is obsessed with.

    But almost all of them, for example, have no issues with long-term residence for married foreigners, especially highly educated foreigners.

    So no, the alt-right can get stuffed. At their base, they are no better than any other spoils seeker once they’ve abandoned any notion of morality. The great saving grace is that their ideas are so unworkable that its not particularly worth being concerned about, though it speaks a lot of how degraded the once vaunted “Western thinking” has become when it is reduced to this.

    Of course, they pair this with WeWuzKangzness in a highly disgusting manner. Its just sad, overall.

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  129. @AndrewR
    I don't know the actual data, but I have a strong hunch that the average foreclosed house is damaged and/or poorly maintained enough as to offset the profit that the bank will have made off of interest and the eventual resale of the house. Plus, if I'm not mistaken, there can ve a long time elapsed between mortgage default and foreclosure to say nothing of resale.

    I have worked on the quant modeling side of mortgage default. The LGD (Loss Given Default) rates were higher than I would have guessed before I saw the data. Out of the large pool of houses that default over years’ worth of data we modeled, there were some individual defaulted-on houses which broke even or even showed a profit for the institution, but these were very rare. Generally, whether due to damage, or process costs, or time elapsed, or a combination, the lender also loses a substantial amount in a default.

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    • Replies: @res
    Thanks for your informed comment! Can you give any idea (or pointers) about the economic breakdowns of defaults? For example, what kinds of LtVs (both at loan origination and foreclosure sale) did you typically see? How much of the profit/loss was caused by things like time between default and sale, difference between loan balance and sale price, repair costs, other process costs, etc.? Is there an issue with the banks not being structured to profit from defaults (e.g. having to sell into bad markets, appearance of distress)? There certainly seem to be plenty of people profiting from foreclosed houses.

    If we assume defaulting homeowners are rational economic actors we should expect default to be a loss for the bank (especially after other costs are factored in), but I am not sure how good an assumption that is (either through necessity or simple bad decision making). Based on the data you saw, how do you think the profit/loss of default broke down for the homeowners?

    P.S. If you have the time and inclination it would be interesting to hear your take on the 1985 Evans paper I linked above.
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  130. @Anon
    Groundhog Decade.

    Zing! What a great encapsulation.

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  131. anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    “…Rachelle Faroul, a 33-year-old black woman who was rejected twice by lenders when she tried to buy a brick row house close to Malcolm X Park in Philadelphia, where African Americans were 2.7 times as likely as whites to be denied a conventional mortgage.”

    If this is true and the neighborhood in question is named after (as Rush Limbaugh would call him) “Malcolm the Tenth”, then the likelihood is that this neighborhood is in the process of undergoing gentrification by the Powers That Be. The gentry class tends to be young, white, many (but by no means all) Jewish, all sporting the usual Forbes Top 20 college/professional school diplomas. This woman was “made” the minute she walked into the bank.

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  132. @Twinkie

    then what color are Asians?

    Invisible color?
     
    Inconvenient color, more like.

    Inconvenient to the left’s claims of white institutional racism, oppression, etc.

    Also inconvenient to alt-right’s claims of white supremacy, exceptionalism, etc.

    Just.inconvenient.all.around. Hence, invisible. But, not the way Hispanics are.

    Also inconvenient to alt-right’s claims of white supremacy, exceptionalism, etc.

    Not sure what you’re reading, but the alt-right is not about white supremacy. It’s about race realism and white identity. Difference racial groups evolved to emphasize different traits, somewhat like different breeds of dogs. Is a mastiff “superior” to a rat terrier? It’s a ridiculous question.

    Now, if you ask which dog would be better at hunting down and killing rats and other rodents on a farm, I can say that a rat terrier is superior at that task. It’s all a question of the environment and the job.

    Alt-righter generally want to be allowed to speak honestly about race and for their people – whites – to be allowed to not get wiped from the earth as a people.

    If there’s anything alt-righters do believe is superior, it’s the nationstate over multi-racial countries. I don’t care what blacks or Asians do as long as they do it in their our country. Different peoples should be allowed to have their own homelands.

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  133. Those Who Never Noticed the Past Are Condemned to Repeat It.

    The Roman empire fell due to allowing Barbarians to bear arms.

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    • Replies: @Buffalo Joe
    Jon, never mind the arms, could they get mortgages.
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  134. anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    That’s just for college loans. The TOTAL amount of indebtedness is around $1.2 trillion and counting and also includes trade schools, business schools etc. If, say, 25 percent of this number represents strictly black indebtedness, we’re talking $300m. A 50% default rate is $150m. That’s a LOT of shekels– which probably will never be paid.

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  135. @Pat Boyle
    What color are we?

    Bertrand Russell was once denied entrance to some place or other because it was only for 'colored people'. He said, "We are colored. We are pink."

    “We are colored. We are pink.”

    Especially when we go out in the sun.

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  136. @Dan Hayes
    Steve,

    It had been noted by Milton Friedman that while mortgage denial rate were higher for minorities than non-minorities their eventual default rates were the same. Thus proving that the mortgage adjudication procedures were fair and nondiscriminatory.

    While I have had some problems with Friedman's unfettered economic liberalism, I have never had problems with his unfettered logic!

    Does anyone here have a good study for mortgage denial/interest/default rates by race?

    This seems like a reasonable look at the issue from 1998: http://www.csus.edu/indiv/c/chalmersk/econ251fa12/evidenceofdiscriminationinmortgagelending.pdf
    But notes the following (emphasis mine, probably a valuable clue):

    Somewhat surprisingly, very little information on default rates by race is available. In one review of die default literature that went back to die 1960s, Quercia and Stegman (1992) briefly mention only one article that used race as an explanatory variable. According to that study by Evans et al. (1985), blacks had 7.5 percent more defaults than whites, but the difference in expected losses was only 2.4 percent. A more recent study, discussed in greater detail below, found that raw default rates on loans insured by the Federal Housing Administration were 2 percentage points higher for black borrowers than for white borrowers, even after other key characteristics of the borrower and the neighborhood were taken into account (Berkovec et al., 1996b, p. 20). If the evidence of higher default rates among minority groups holds up in future research, it would provide a motive for lenders to engage in profit-motivated statistical discrimination against minorities.

    The 1985 Evans study is online at http://www.jstor.org/stable/40472807 and can be read for free with registration (also available at libgen with DOI 10.2307/40472807). They advocate using expected loss (percentage) as a metric, which seems like a good idea to me, but IMHO the numbers cited above provide an excellent example of statistical obfuscation (but are easily explained by being easiest to extract from the regression coefficients on page 80). Looking at Table 1 in Evans we see that default rates range from 2.56% to 14.67% (!) while the expected loss rates range from 0.558% to 6.453%. The lower rates of loss mean that the absolute rate differences quoted make the loss rate difference seem smaller. It would be much better to express the racial rate differences as ratios to compare the rates of default and expected loss. For a quick and dirty way of doing this I set all of the other variables to 0 and compared the B/W differences in P (prob of default) and E (expected loss):
    var Black White Ratio
    P 12.58% 5.11% 2.46
    E 3.6% 1.25% 2.88
    So we see that for at least one case the B/W difference is actually worse for expected loss (contrast to the impression given by the numbers I quoted above). Changing the Loan to Value Ratio (largest coefficients after race) from 0 (90-95%) to 1 (over 95%) gives
    var Black White Ratio
    P 8.13% 1.19% 6.83
    E 2.56% 0.21% 12.2
    Ouch! I am surprised that increasing the LtV decreases the default/expected loss rates so if anyone wants to double check please do so. Any ideas for explaining this oddity?
    Table 2 and Figure 2 give another metric (semivariance) and compare it to expected loss.
    Table 3 gives a very interesting look at expected loss and semivariance compared for each variable. Part III covers race and differs from my conclusions above (not sure why, perhaps “When Paired Comparisons are Controlled for Other Risk Factors”?). The Expected Loss ratios range from 1.8 to 7.
    Part II covers LtV and gives the expected “higher LtVs are riskier” so I am not sure why the regression coefficient is as it is.
    I highly recommend Table 3 for anyone who wants a (admittedly very old) look at how risk compares for Loan Size/LtV/City/Race differences.
    That paper seems like a model of clarity of presentation to me. I just wish they had also included average interest rates so we could see how those corresponded to losses.

    Back to the first link, page 3/49 has some discussion of the importance of which variables are controlled for.

    I think this excerpt from the conclusion summarizes the issue nicely:

    While it is not clear whether the discrimination that emerges from the Boston Fed study is attributable to a taste for discrimination or to profit-motivated statistical discrimination, my guess is that a substantial part of it is statistical discrimination driven by the drive for profits. If so, market forces are not likely to eliminate it.

    P.S. whorefinder’s comment 5 pretty well nails it.

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    • Agree: Dan Hayes
    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Over the years, I've posted links to a dozen or so studies of defaults in the 2008-2012 era by race. Typically blacks and Hispanics had default rates 2 to 5 times white levels, with Asians also being elevated.
    , @Twinkie
    See also: http://www.jstor.org/stable/24887192

    Abstract. We estimate a mortgage default model with national data on conventional mortgages that were current from 1986 to 1992. Our analysis confirms the results of previous analyses of Federal Housing Authority mortgages: Black households have higher marginal default rates, controlling for differences in borrower and property characteristics. Further, we do not find that Black borrowers have significantly more home equity. These results do not provide evidence of racial discrimination in mortgage lending and suggest that differences in default costs or transaction costs may explain differences in default rates.
     
    And: http://www.responsiblelending.org/mortgage-lending/research-analysis/foreclosures-by-race-and-ethnicity.pdf

    • The majority (an estimated 56%) of families who lost homes were non-Hispanic and white, but African-American and Latino families were disproportionately affected relative to their share of mortgage originations.
    • Among recent borrowers, we estimate that nearly 8% of both African Americans and Latinos have lost their homes to foreclosures, compared to 4.5% of whites.
    • The racial and ethnic disparities in these estimated foreclosure rates hold even after controlling for differences in income patterns between demographic groups.
     

    • Non-Hispanic whites represent the majority of at-risk borrowers, but African-American and Latino borrowers are more likely to be at imminent risk of foreclosure (21.6% and 21.4%, respectively) than non-Hispanic white borrowers (14.8%).
    • American Indian (16.5%), Native Hawaiian or other Pacific Islanders (18.6%), and Asian borrowers (15.7%) all also show an increased likelihood of being at-risk.
     
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  137. @Art Deco
    Art he said “fail”. There were banks that failed. I

    What happens in a conventional bank failure is that the supervisory authority (a state banking supervisor, the Comptroller of the Currency, &c) places the bank in receivership. The FDIC acts as receiver. The banks shareholders and creditors lose their stakes or receive haircuts per their position in a standard queue, with the severity of the losses depending on the bank's degree of insolvency. First, the equity holders lose their investment, then the bondholders lose theirs, then losses are imposed on those holding commercial paper and on those with uninsured deposits. The bank is sold off to another bank which acquires its residual obligations (the deposits), its loan portfolio, and its securities, vault cash, and miscellaneous assets. Sometimes there is no sale and the FDIC re-opens the bank as a federal bank and operates it for an indeterminate period of times. On other occasions, the bank is simply liquidated and the FDIC cuts checks to the insured depositors. It's a rapid process for apportioning losses, not a 'bailout'. The only people who might be bailed out are the insured depositors. There are no special favors incorporated into doing that. Deposit insurance has been the law since 1933.

    What was atypical during the most recent financial crisis was that the FDIC elected to guarantee bank bonds issued during the period running from the end of 2008 to the middle of 2012.

    The FDIC is an actuarial pool financed by member fees. It can borrow from the Treasury if needs be, but doesn't typically tap that source.

    You’re right. I was shooting without precise aim. If FDIC didn’t have to go back to the taxpayers, then those costs are ones everyone pays through the banking system.

    The big hit to the taxpayers this go round was through all the b.s. mortgages dumped on Fannie and Freddie, and bailout of AIG–because of CDOs.

    But the bottom line here is pretty clear. A bunch of folks–loan peddlers on commission, bank officers, mortgage company owners, some home builders, ex-pols living large at Fannie and Freddie, financial folks packaging and dumping CDOs and various financial sharpies (e.g. Goldman Sachs) betting on the right side of CDOs made a packet. Even some home buyers with zeros who managed to live in nice places rent free during foreclosure came out ok. While the taxpayers got fleeced for over a trillion dollars.

    And there was absolutely no need for any of it.

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    • Replies: @Jim Don Bob

    And there was absolutely no need for any of it.
     
    And no one got punished for any of it. That'll teach 'em!
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  138. @SB Wright
    I have worked on the quant modeling side of mortgage default. The LGD (Loss Given Default) rates were higher than I would have guessed before I saw the data. Out of the large pool of houses that default over years' worth of data we modeled, there were some individual defaulted-on houses which broke even or even showed a profit for the institution, but these were very rare. Generally, whether due to damage, or process costs, or time elapsed, or a combination, the lender also loses a substantial amount in a default.

    Thanks for your informed comment! Can you give any idea (or pointers) about the economic breakdowns of defaults? For example, what kinds of LtVs (both at loan origination and foreclosure sale) did you typically see? How much of the profit/loss was caused by things like time between default and sale, difference between loan balance and sale price, repair costs, other process costs, etc.? Is there an issue with the banks not being structured to profit from defaults (e.g. having to sell into bad markets, appearance of distress)? There certainly seem to be plenty of people profiting from foreclosed houses.

    If we assume defaulting homeowners are rational economic actors we should expect default to be a loss for the bank (especially after other costs are factored in), but I am not sure how good an assumption that is (either through necessity or simple bad decision making). Based on the data you saw, how do you think the profit/loss of default broke down for the homeowners?

    P.S. If you have the time and inclination it would be interesting to hear your take on the 1985 Evans paper I linked above.

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  139. @anonymous

    Feel free to use this if you like it.
     
    Declined. :(

    Who asked you, Website?

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  140. http://www.creditslips.org/creditslips/2018/02/churches-are-still-filing-bankruptcy.html

    Black churches fill Chapter 11 at a disproportionate rate. Just another data point.

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    • Replies: @Buzz Mohawk
    Years ago I worked where there was a Haitian man with a low-level office job. He did lousy work and I had several run-ins with him. One day as I was leaving for home, I saw him carrying a stack of our office supplies out to his car and putting them in the trunk.

    I reported that and didn't see him again for years until...

    Last year I bumped into him and had a conversation. He is now the minister of his own black church.

    , @midtown
    This makes me wonder if blacks are more apt to subscribe to the name-it-and-claim-it prosperity gospel (and it is my impression they do), where they make a leap of faith because they believe God will deliver the home/church/etc. no matter what the odds are.
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  141. @AnotherDad
    You're right. I was shooting without precise aim. If FDIC didn't have to go back to the taxpayers, then those costs are ones everyone pays through the banking system.

    The big hit to the taxpayers this go round was through all the b.s. mortgages dumped on Fannie and Freddie, and bailout of AIG--because of CDOs.

    But the bottom line here is pretty clear. A bunch of folks--loan peddlers on commission, bank officers, mortgage company owners, some home builders, ex-pols living large at Fannie and Freddie, financial folks packaging and dumping CDOs and various financial sharpies (e.g. Goldman Sachs) betting on the right side of CDOs made a packet. Even some home buyers with zeros who managed to live in nice places rent free during foreclosure came out ok. While the taxpayers got fleeced for over a trillion dollars.

    And there was absolutely no need for any of it.

    And there was absolutely no need for any of it.

    And no one got punished for any of it. That’ll teach ‘em!

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  142. @anonymous
    Rather than “race and ethnicity are actually and causally connected to things such as violent crime or loan trustworthiness,” how about “race and ethnicity are actually and statistically correlated to things such as violent crime or loan trustworthiness, we will continue to lose”? Those playing identity politics bear the burden of proof — don’t go tribal!

    Tribalism wins. Truth wins. Reality wins.

    Civic nationalism loses.

    Race and ethnicity cause differences in violent crime rates and loan trustworthiness. Fact.

    Get over it.

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    • Replies: @anonymous
    Terse. Angry. Exactly where they want you.

    U R divided, and U R conquered.

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  143. @whorefinder

    When you look at credit scores, you get the strong impression that they they are analogous to the bell curve for IQ. You can tell a lot about a person from is credit score, and the sad thing is, most people don’t have very good ones, just as most people are of only mediocre thinking-ability. Sad but true.

    It doesn’t take much to build good credit. Just borrow a little and pay it back on schedule. Grow that over time, and you will have a good score. Pay your bills. Amazingly, a lot of people stink at that. Some races more than others.When you work for the Center for Investigative Reporting, you bring to the table the assumption that other people are boneheads and you understand their business better than they do.
     

    True to a point. These days, many mid-wits---defined by Vox Day as people with slightly-higher-than-average IQ---often have an overinflated sense of their IQ and worth, and thus have taken out very expensive loans for grad school, such as law school or masters programs or j-school, that the job market can't help them pay back but that everyone in the school told them was feasible.

    It's not surprising to know a few 105-115 folks crushed by huge amounts of debt that they stupidly took out on Uncle Sam's programs in their 20s. One reason student loan forgiveness and free college have become issues is because many a reporter and his under-employed buddies find the topics personally poignant.

    The phrase "over-educated and underemployed" is well known, as is the joke about baristas having Phds. and such.

    …most people don’t have very good ones [credit scores], just as most people are of only mediocre thinking-ability.

    I wrote this to include those very people you mention. 105-115 Is mediocre (depending on one’s perspective, of course). Those student loan-burdoned people to which you refer were sold on the idea that they could do things that Murray says in his book Real Education they really are not cut out for.

    Perspective matters in this case. One guesses people commenting here, for example, are mostly outside that 105-115 group to which you refer.

    You are correct, though, that bad credit is not limited to the stupid or the merely average. It’s just that the left side of the curve is very heavy with low credit scores, and the fat middle also contains a lot.

    In fact, if you are in a position to read a lot of high-income people’s credit reports, you discover that a lot of them are financially stupid but overpaid — house poor people who spend every last dollar they make, plus their six-figure bonuses. They borrow on top of their incomes against what little equity they have in their McMansions.

    There is a different kind of intelligence, financial intelligence, that maybe doesn’t show up in IQ scores. In light of that, maybe my original point is moot. Maybe even higher IQ people can be fools with their money. I will concede that.

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    • Disagree: ScarletNumber
    • Replies: @whorefinder

    105-115 Is mediocre.
     
    That is literally false. A 105-115 IQ is, by definition, above average, not mediocre. Your personal perspective is irrelevant.
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  144. @anon
    http://www.creditslips.org/creditslips/2018/02/churches-are-still-filing-bankruptcy.html

    Black churches fill Chapter 11 at a disproportionate rate. Just another data point.

    Years ago I worked where there was a Haitian man with a low-level office job. He did lousy work and I had several run-ins with him. One day as I was leaving for home, I saw him carrying a stack of our office supplies out to his car and putting them in the trunk.

    I reported that and didn’t see him again for years until…

    Last year I bumped into him and had a conversation. He is now the minister of his own black church.

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    • Replies: @Triumph104
    Irving Fryar was an NFL wide receiver for 17 years. In 2015, Fryar and his mother were convicted of mortgage fraud and order to pay $615,000 in restitution to five institutions. Fryar has been an ordained minister since the early 90s and part of the mortgage scam was falsely stating that his mother earned over $4000 a month as an employee at his church.
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  145. The bizzaro alliance of neoliberalism and identity politics. Insisting that poor non-whites be able to access more credit so they can become poorer.

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  146. @biz
    from the article:

    She holds a degree from Northwestern University, had a good credit score and estimates she was making $60,000 a year while teaching computer programming as a contractor for Rutgers University. Still, her initial loan application was denied by Philadelphia Mortgage Advisors, an independent broker that made nearly 90 percent of its loans to whites in 2015 and 2016.
     
    Hmm, teaching as a contractor? One only has to read slightly between the lines here to guess that she was probably a part time adjunct at the time, one of the most notoriously underpaid and insecure jobs out there. They usually have no guarantee of employment beyond the present academic year. That's a huge red flag to loan providers. The reporter could have just stated her job title accurately, but then of course it would have made sense that she could have been denied for a loan. So instead he went with the tortured phrasing. 95% of readers will be skimming it and come away thinking "OMG how could a computer programmer be denied a loan???"

    You are correct. In addition, she may not have any benefits at all, and her assignment might end far sooner than the current academic year: she might have no sections as soon as next semester, or for some schools, next quarter…12 weeks.

    Last but not least, she wished to purchase “a brick row house close to Malcolm X Park in Philadelphia, where African Americans were 2.7 times as likely as whites to be denied a conventional mortgage.” How many whites are likely to APPLY for a house “close to Malcolm X Park in Philadelphia”? Does anyone seriously think that such property as any more desirable than Chris Rock’s depiction of streets named MLK?

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  147. @ben tillman

    This modern-day redlining persisted in 61 metro areas even when controlling for applicants’ income, loan amount and neighborhood . . . .
     
    But what happened when they controlled for everything that mattered, i.e., creditworthiness?

    This is straightforward and intentional demonization of whites.

    “This is straightforward and intentional demonization of whites.”

    Why would a guy named AARON GLANTZ do such a thing?

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    • Replies: @William Badwhite
    Looks like I failed internet posting 101.

    Tried to post a pic of this smirking ninny

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aaron_Glantz
    , @res
    Your link is one of those Wikipedia pseudo images. If you see content at the link other than the actual image right click on it and "open image in new tab" then use that link.

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a5/Aaron_Glantz_%2814266067539%29_%28cropped%29.jpg
    , @AndrewR
    He is just a typical Aryan man. Nothing to see here, goy.
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  148. @Yan Shen

    By the way, if blacks and browns are People of Color, but whites and Asians are not, then what color are Asians?

    Invisible color?
     

    Asian Americans, in particular those of East Asian descent, are one of the smallest minority groups in America and are undoubtedly people of color. They're also the most openly discriminated against group in this country, as the recent lawsuits against Harvard or our general willingness to tolerate anti-Asian bigotry shows.

    Sadly, the racist mainstream media consistently ignores East Asians in our national discourse on race. When will these so called progressives own up to their hate?

    “our general willingness to tolerate anti-Asian bigotry ”

    You could always go home.

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    • Replies: @anonymous
    It feels like they need some more encouragement and being generally teacher's pets who can barely walk while tripping over their tiny balls, I think that properly whites can provide just the right physical motivation needed what is needed to get them to hurry back to antland where they can ant away from us. Soulless insects, its not even fun to bash on them, its just like punching bugs.
    , @Twinkie

    You could always go home.
     
    No kidding. That character is so tiresome. First, what he asserts is NOT true - Asians are not the most discriminated minority group in the U.S. Not by far. Second, he’s just one note. There is nothing interesting, funny, or insightful of his comments. It’s just whining that Asians don’t have it good. I wish he’d find somewhere better then. And Godspeed.
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  149. @Charles Pewitt

    So far, no one has found a means of sustaining long-term prosperity without taking the goodies from someone else.

     

    The "goodies" were delivered to greedy slobs born before 1965 who stole demand from the future. The government debt built up over the last few decades was a means by which greedy slobs could improve their living standards by stealing demand from the future. Debt is stolen demand from the future.

    This why I like the Battle of Hastings example from William the Conqueror's Norman Invasion to describe changes in political structures. When the Normans were victorious they wiped out the Saxons. Young people in European Christian nations are going to have to financially wipe out those born before 1965 and figure out a way to keep them wiped out. That is the only way to stop nation-wrecking mass immigration and all the other anti-White nonsense the ruling classes use to crush the young White people.

    The next global financial implosion is coming along and the young White people in European Christian nations should welcome it.

    Remember 1981 and 22 percent federal funds rate? let's do it again so as to financially wipe out those born before 1965. Sounds like fun and it will help young White people with AFFORDABLE FAMILY FORMATION!

    European Christendom is being destroyed by the greed of Whites born before 1965. There is no doubt about that.

    Demography and Debt are the whole ballgame.

    Unfortunately, Cuspers (cusp of late Boomer and early Gen X) fall into your demographics, and they’re not doing all that well, compared to their parents, although they’re still better off than Millennials–unless they were part of a downsizing, and after being heaved out of a decades-long professional career, had to seek a McJob or go on benefits.

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    • Replies: @Art Deco
    Your conception of who 'isn't doing all that well' appears to encompass the entire adult population under the age of 60. Do you really fancy the nation's geezers are living like pashas on the backs of everyone else?
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  150. @Buzz Mohawk

    ...most people don’t have very good ones [credit scores], just as most people are of only mediocre thinking-ability.
     
    I wrote this to include those very people you mention. 105-115 Is mediocre (depending on one's perspective, of course). Those student loan-burdoned people to which you refer were sold on the idea that they could do things that Murray says in his book Real Education they really are not cut out for.

    Perspective matters in this case. One guesses people commenting here, for example, are mostly outside that 105-115 group to which you refer.

    You are correct, though, that bad credit is not limited to the stupid or the merely average. It's just that the left side of the curve is very heavy with low credit scores, and the fat middle also contains a lot.

    In fact, if you are in a position to read a lot of high-income people's credit reports, you discover that a lot of them are financially stupid but overpaid -- house poor people who spend every last dollar they make, plus their six-figure bonuses. They borrow on top of their incomes against what little equity they have in their McMansions.

    There is a different kind of intelligence, financial intelligence, that maybe doesn't show up in IQ scores. In light of that, maybe my original point is moot. Maybe even higher IQ people can be fools with their money. I will concede that.

    105-115 Is mediocre.

    That is literally false. A 105-115 IQ is, by definition, above average, not mediocre. Your personal perspective is irrelevant.

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    • Replies: @Buzz Mohawk
    Okay, okay. So only strictly 100 is average, but there is a big, fat part of the curve that is not exceptional. It includes around one SD below and one above. You're right, though, and I was stretching the point.

    My personal perspective is that a lot of people have bad credit, and the further you go down the curve, the worse it gets. That does matter.

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  151. @Publius
    “Credit score was not included because that information is not publicly available.”

    I laughed out loud when I read the final line. Oh, you weren’t controlling for the thing that the decision is based on? LMAO

    “Credit score was not included because that information is not publicly available.”

    I laughed out loud when I read the final line. Oh, you weren’t controlling for the thing that the decision is based on? LMAO

    Yeah, I think pretty much anyone over 25 reading the piece would notice the dog that didn’t bark.

    It’s amazing that they think they can still get away with this nonsense.

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  152. @Arclight
    I had a black tenant once tell me (unsolicited) that the reason blacks like jewelry is because it's easy to pawn when times get rough. Of course, it looks like a lot of it is fake, but it does have some logic as well in instances in which someone actually has real gold or diamonds.

    Good grief that’s hilarious. What kind of haircut do pawn brokers take on jewelry, 40% or more?

    I also have assets to tap in case times get rough – they’re in what’s known as “savings”.

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    • Replies: @Art Deco
    I've heard loans of 50% of the resale value are about the norm. It's high-overhead microcredit. Microcredit is usurious; you can't make a living at it when it isn't. Pawn shops aren't the debt trap that pay-day lenders are.
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  153. @Rosamond Vincy
    Unfortunately, Cuspers (cusp of late Boomer and early Gen X) fall into your demographics, and they're not doing all that well, compared to their parents, although they're still better off than Millennials--unless they were part of a downsizing, and after being heaved out of a decades-long professional career, had to seek a McJob or go on benefits.

    Your conception of who ‘isn’t doing all that well’ appears to encompass the entire adult population under the age of 60. Do you really fancy the nation’s geezers are living like pashas on the backs of everyone else?

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    • Replies: @Rosamond Vincy
    See the comment to which I was replying. The idea of Geezer-paradise did not originate with me
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  154. By the way, if blacks and browns are People of Color, but whites and Asians are not, then what color are Asians?

    Invisible color?

    Trying to reason with your natural rivals this way is yielding to their frame. It’s also pointless, as they’re not motivated by objective reason, but by striving and competing for power and status, by any means necessary (which is not without its own, subjective, reason).

    It keeps you perpetually on the defensive, and thus perpetually losing ground.

    More effective, I think, would be to taunt them with it:

    Instead of ‘why is that that Whites and Asians don’t have a color?’

    how ’bout referring to Whites as ‘people of hands and feet’ (if we want to go for mockery)

    or ‘people of brains’ (if we want to go for the shiv).

    (Asians can and should look out for themselves, as they certainly will)

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    • Replies: @J.Ross
    I like Derb's "sun people" and "snow people" (Northern versus equatorial and Southern ancestral origins).
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  155. @William Badwhite
    Good grief that's hilarious. What kind of haircut do pawn brokers take on jewelry, 40% or more?

    I also have assets to tap in case times get rough - they're in what's known as "savings".

    I’ve heard loans of 50% of the resale value are about the norm. It’s high-overhead microcredit. Microcredit is usurious; you can’t make a living at it when it isn’t. Pawn shops aren’t the debt trap that pay-day lenders are.

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  156. anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @William Badwhite
    "our general willingness to tolerate anti-Asian bigotry "

    You could always go home.

    It feels like they need some more encouragement and being generally teacher’s pets who can barely walk while tripping over their tiny balls, I think that properly whites can provide just the right physical motivation needed what is needed to get them to hurry back to antland where they can ant away from us. Soulless insects, its not even fun to bash on them, its just like punching bugs.

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    • Troll: Twinkie
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  157. @whorefinder

    105-115 Is mediocre.
     
    That is literally false. A 105-115 IQ is, by definition, above average, not mediocre. Your personal perspective is irrelevant.

    Okay, okay. So only strictly 100 is average, but there is a big, fat part of the curve that is not exceptional. It includes around one SD below and one above. You’re right, though, and I was stretching the point.

    My personal perspective is that a lot of people have bad credit, and the further you go down the curve, the worse it gets. That does matter.

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    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Just as a stupid data point, I've tested at 146 and 152 and I was financially illiterate well into my 40s. They don't teach you this stuff in school, and my parents were AWOL.
    , @res
    This paper looks at some interesting correlations with credit scores: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4260546/

    The figure below includes IQ and education, but what really jumps out at me is how low the credit scores are for the quintile lowest in self-control.

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4260546/bin/pnas.1409794111fig02.jpg
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  158. @Buzz Mohawk
    Okay, okay. So only strictly 100 is average, but there is a big, fat part of the curve that is not exceptional. It includes around one SD below and one above. You're right, though, and I was stretching the point.

    My personal perspective is that a lot of people have bad credit, and the further you go down the curve, the worse it gets. That does matter.

    Just as a stupid data point, I’ve tested at 146 and 152 and I was financially illiterate well into my 40s. They don’t teach you this stuff in school, and my parents were AWOL.

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    • Replies: @Buzz Mohawk
    Agreed, financial literacy should be taught a lot more than it is, beginning at early ages.

    Money knowledge is more important than some of the things students are expected to learn. It could be worked into elementary and middle math curricula far more than it is, and it could also be included as a subject for social studies or whatever. As kids move up, the subject could easily hold its own as a full-year, mandatory high school class!

    One wonders, as an aside, if there is a type of financial intelligence that deviates from general intelligence or IQ in some individuals.

    Nurture must be a factor, of course. Growing up I knew a kid who liked to buy, sell and trade things. He sold me some interesting items, and there was always a negotiation, a deal to be made. I called him a wheeler-dealer. His grandfather next door was an antique dealer who gave him things to sell and taught him the business. By age eleven I had learned some things about "the art of the deal" from this kid.

    Years later I re-visited that town from childhood. I found out he was dead. He had gotten into drug dealing. Being clever does not guarantee a good life, or even a long one.

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  159. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Citizen of a Silly Country
    Yep, this logical argument pretty much destroys every race/gender myth, not that anyone cares. For all of these unfair inequalities (women in tech, blacks getting loans, Mexicans not becoming physicists, etc.) to perpetuate would require a conspiracy that no only includes evil white guys, but the "good guys" - blacks, women, Hispanics, Jews, Asians and woke whites.

    What these Cult of Equality people (they're not just leftists because the GOP believes the same thing) can't seem to figure out is that evil white guys don't control the hiring and firing of every last person in the country, nor do we control every last investment dollar, nor are we the CEO of every company - large and small - in the United States.

    There are women executives, Hispanic CEOs and woke white bankers, who presumably won't discriminate because 1) they think that it's wrong and 2) they don't want to lose money or promotions by not hiring the best people available or making very profitable deals. (Btw, this conspiracy theory also presumes that mean white gusy would rather lose money and promotions than be fair.)

    If evil white (but an East or South Asian) guys are blocking women from moving up in the tech, that would mean a surplus of very talented women programmers would be available. Smart companies and executives would snap them up, create better products at a cheaper price and crush the competition, thus causing misogynistic white males to lose their jobs and fade away.

    It's Darwinism at its finest.

    If evil white (but not Jewish) guys are blocking perfectly good blacks and Hispanics from getting loans, woke white bankers will step and make those profitable loans. This will increase their profits, allowing those banks to eventually overtake the evil, racists banks.

    This would happen in every field and in every way until mean white guys either figured out that they were wrong or were left unemployed and pointless.

    The fact that this Darwinian process doesn't happen shows that it's not evil whites keeping PoC and women down - again, not that anyone cares.

    You speak a ton of inconvenient truth. Another inconvenient truth, underlying this entire discussion, is that homeownership isn’t quite the unalloyed and universal good it’s presented as in the MSM.

    There are many unacknowledged costs associated with homeownership, including things like maintenance on your house, any sort of refurbishment that you might have to undertake, and any sort of emergency repairs.

    Not to mention skyrocketing real-estate taxes, skyrocketing insurance premiums, and yes–new roofs, appliance replacement, new sewer lines or septic systems, landscaping and tree removals, driveway repaving, interior and exterior painting every time you turn around, endless plumbing and electrical work, and on and on.

    Owning a decent property and keeping it in good repair is far more costly than renting a comparable place, for which not a single one of the aforementioned costs need be footed.

    Yet our fearless leaders fall over themselves to subsidize ‘homeownership’ and then even bail out those who take on more mortgage than they can afford. Never bothering to worry about these extra costs which they surely won’t be able to afford either.

    As if there weren’t enough pressures turning the USA into a third-world country, we’re subsidizing the creation of slums coast-to-coast.

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    • Agree: Jim Don Bob
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  160. @Twinkie

    then what color are Asians?

    Invisible color?
     
    Inconvenient color, more like.

    Inconvenient to the left’s claims of white institutional racism, oppression, etc.

    Also inconvenient to alt-right’s claims of white supremacy, exceptionalism, etc.

    Just.inconvenient.all.around. Hence, invisible. But, not the way Hispanics are.

    Also inconvenient to alt-right’s claims of white supremacy, exceptionalism, etc.

    ???

    The alt-right’s claim is race realism, wherever the chips may fall.

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  161. @Stephen Paul Foster
    "I just can’t think of a proper name for this endeavor."

    How about: "Homes of any color for people of a certain color"?

    Stephen, Bingo !

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  162. @Forbes
    Name? Last Chance Savings & Loan. It's far easier to complain (and beat the dead horse) about the supposed unfairness, than to provide a workable solution.

    FICO credit scores were introduced to overcome redlining, and racial (and other non-credit related) discrimination in lending.

    Yet, like crime rates, too many believe that equal behavioral outcomes are a staple of life. Sadly, it's not true. And unfortunately, too many believe that government can intervene to correct aberrant behavior in order to achieve equal outcomes--hence all the social engineering that arises from the blank slate post-modernists.

    Forbes, Very well thought out reply. Thank You.

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  163. @midtown
    We rent a few units. At first we had a VERY detailed application for prospective tenants. But after a while we realized that the tenants' credit scores were by far the best way to judge how stable they would be. Income did not seem to matter.

    Do you mean the credit reports from agencies like Experian or the numeric FICO score?

    I’m 825. My 26 year old daughter is 850.

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    • Replies: @Anonymous

    I’m 825. My 26 year old daughter is 850.
     
    Good work, man! Is she single? ;)
    , @midtown
    Numeric FICO score. Most renters don't have credit scores like yours (well, hardly anyone for that matter, including me).
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  164. @midtown
    Let's see the left make Woke Bank and give loans to all these deserving people, regardless of credit score. If you found a market inefficiency, take advantage!

    Let’s see the left make Woke Bank and give loans to all these deserving people, regardless of credit score. If you found a market inefficiency, take advantage!

    That would require the left to put their money where their mouth is. Their plans boil down to “give us more money and power so we can force you to do unpalatable things”.

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  165. @Samuel Skinner

    Also inconvenient to alt-right’s claims of white supremacy, exceptionalism, etc.
     
    Historically white supremacists recognized that Asians were better then them; that was the reason for excluding the Chinese and Japanese from immigrating to the United States. The yellow peril was about the threat Asians would pose if they worked together like Europeans did.

    The reason Chinese were excluded was sheer numbers. It was recognized China could fill up the Western US pretty much without breaking a sweat. Recognizing that they “were better than them” is nonsense.

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  166. @William Badwhite
    "This is straightforward and intentional demonization of whites."

    Why would a guy named AARON GLANTZ do such a thing?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aaron_Glantz#/media/File:Aaron_Glantz_(14266067539)_(cropped).jpg

    Looks like I failed internet posting 101.

    Tried to post a pic of this smirking ninny

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aaron_Glantz

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    • Replies: @Chris Marsk
    Glantz's collaborator was Emmanuel Martinez, a data reporter, which is a new subset of journalism post-Nate Silver and FiveThirtyEight.

    https://www.revealnews.org/author/emmanuelmartinez/

    I think one of the dangers of data reporting is that you fall in love with the numbers and you don't pay attention to where the numbers come from, what the individual data points say, and whether the non-data aspect of the story's narrative makes any sense.

    Having said that, I'd like to see a lot more data reporting on immigration. All you get are poster children in the media, not typical DACA people. Let's see a graph of educational attainment, salary, out-of-wedlock kids, body mass index, height, facial attractiveness (use a Hot-or-Not interface with Mechanical Turk), and so on for all DACA people and all illegal immigramts, perhaps by source country. Numbers USA needs to expand their offerings. You get glimpses of the real picture from videos and photos of various protests.
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  167. @Yan Shen

    By the way, if blacks and browns are People of Color, but whites and Asians are not, then what color are Asians?

    Invisible color?
     

    Asian Americans, in particular those of East Asian descent, are one of the smallest minority groups in America and are undoubtedly people of color. They're also the most openly discriminated against group in this country, as the recent lawsuits against Harvard or our general willingness to tolerate anti-Asian bigotry shows.

    Sadly, the racist mainstream media consistently ignores East Asians in our national discourse on race. When will these so called progressives own up to their hate?

    Yan, if you did a photo line up , using just Asians and Blacks dressed in medical garb and asked people of every race to pick a doctor from the line up, how many would pick a black doctor over and Asian doctor.

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    • Replies: @Gordo
    Lots of them would pick a black doctor for somebody else, very few for themselves.
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  168. @El Dato
    OT: Decay and Oligarchization of Society:

    https://www.rt.com/usa/418942-us-recruits-training-overhaul/

    The US Army training program will be overhauled with a focus on discipline and physical exercises after multiple complaints about new recruits. The Army will drop hand grenade throwing and land navigation qualifications. “What leaders have observed in general is they believe that there is too much of a sense of entitlement, questioning of lawful orders, not listening to instruction, too much of a buddy mentality with NCOs [non-commissioned officers] and officers and a lot of tardiness being late to formation and duties,” Frost said.

    ...

    A number of qualification requirements will be dispensed with altogether, as it was deemed too time-consuming to train the recruits to pass them. Among the cuts are hand grenade throwing and a land navigation course. The poor performance in these fields, according to Frost, might be related to the poor overall physique of the recruits and a lack of outdoors activities during their childhood.
     
    https://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/02/15/fcc_chairman_investigation/

    Since taking over as chair in January 2017, Ajit Pai has made big play of his effort to cut back rules in an effort to bring back "light touch" regulation. But lawmakers are suspicious of a number of decisions that directly benefitted one media group – Sinclair Broadcasting.

    The FCC is due to decide on a $3.9bn merger between Sinclair and the smaller Tribune Media that would give the merged company an enormous media footprint across the United States, reaching 72 per cent of the population.

    The proposed deal was only made possible thanks to rule changes proposed and passed by Pai, not all of which fitted his "light touch" template.

    ....

    And the final piece of usual decision-making by Pai that had a direct, positive impact on Sinclair's business was an unexpected decision by the FCC to authorize the transmission of so-called "Next Gen TV" using the ATSC 3.0 standard.

    So what was the rush, and why did the FCC push this new standard? It may be no coincidence that one of the biggest advocates for ATSC 3.0 is none other than David Smith, CEO of Sinclair Broadcasting.

    Sinclair holds several patents related to the standard – and stands to make billions of dollars if it becomes the default system for TV broadcast in the United States.

     

    El, Gato, Grenade throwing 101, Pull Pin. Throw grenade forward, away from you and everyone else. Duck and cover. However, tough to do with a limp wrist or if you throw like a girl.

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  169. @Buzz Mohawk
    Years ago I worked where there was a Haitian man with a low-level office job. He did lousy work and I had several run-ins with him. One day as I was leaving for home, I saw him carrying a stack of our office supplies out to his car and putting them in the trunk.

    I reported that and didn't see him again for years until...

    Last year I bumped into him and had a conversation. He is now the minister of his own black church.

    Irving Fryar was an NFL wide receiver for 17 years. In 2015, Fryar and his mother were convicted of mortgage fraud and order to pay $615,000 in restitution to five institutions. Fryar has been an ordained minister since the early 90s and part of the mortgage scam was falsely stating that his mother earned over $4000 a month as an employee at his church.

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    • Replies: @Anonymous

    Irving Fryar was an NFL wide receiver for 17 years. In 2015, Fryar and his mother were convicted of mortgage fraud and order to pay $615,000 in restitution to five institutions.
     
    His bad luck not to be an illegal immigrant. The Democrat party would be falling all over itself to make him feel at home.

    Link for newbs

    , @Arclight
    Not that black ministers have a monopoly on playing on people's insecurities and superstitions to gain personal wealth...that said, in my formerly majority black neighborhood on Sundays the minister would arrive in our inner city DC neighborhood in his Cadillac with Maryland plates in a bespoke suit that cost more than most of his congregation would make in a month. Every year there was a collection to buy him a 'gift' like a Rolex. It was disgusting.

    Then again, Jeremiah Wright got his church to build him a $1.6 million mansion in a suburb that is only 2% black, so our local guy was a total amateur.
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  170. @Barnard
    Tim Scott wants utility companies and landlords to report whether or not every customer has paid their bill on time to credit reporting agencies so they can include it in FICO scores? What a waste of time for them, plus it wouldn't have helped in the example the AP reporter used because she had a utility collection.

    Faroul applies for loans from Philadelphia Mortgage Advisors and Santander Bank, I doubt she did her regular banking with either of those banks. Why didn't she apply with Wells Fargo? They have branches all over the metro area and love to talk about how committed they are to minority lending. Did she even talk to someone at her regular bank about getting a mortgage?

    Many blacks can’t pay their utility bills either. How would this help?

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    • Agree: Triumph104
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  171. @Brutusale
    It already exists. It's about as well-run as you'd imagine.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OneUnited_Bank

    Brrute, thank you, but you will never see and article where One United denies a loan based on, let’s see, your ability to repay the loan.

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  172. @Jonathan Mason

    Those Who Never Noticed the Past Are Condemned to Repeat It.
     
    The Roman empire fell due to allowing Barbarians to bear arms.

    Jon, never mind the arms, could they get mortgages.

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  173. @Jim Don Bob
    Do you mean the credit reports from agencies like Experian or the numeric FICO score?

    I'm 825. My 26 year old daughter is 850.

    I’m 825. My 26 year old daughter is 850.

    Good work, man! Is she single? ;)

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  174. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Triumph104
    Irving Fryar was an NFL wide receiver for 17 years. In 2015, Fryar and his mother were convicted of mortgage fraud and order to pay $615,000 in restitution to five institutions. Fryar has been an ordained minister since the early 90s and part of the mortgage scam was falsely stating that his mother earned over $4000 a month as an employee at his church.

    Irving Fryar was an NFL wide receiver for 17 years. In 2015, Fryar and his mother were convicted of mortgage fraud and order to pay $615,000 in restitution to five institutions.

    His bad luck not to be an illegal immigrant. The Democrat party would be falling all over itself to make him feel at home.

    Link for newbs

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  175. @mobi

    By the way, if blacks and browns are People of Color, but whites and Asians are not, then what color are Asians?

    Invisible color?
     

    Trying to reason with your natural rivals this way is yielding to their frame. It's also pointless, as they're not motivated by objective reason, but by striving and competing for power and status, by any means necessary (which is not without its own, subjective, reason).

    It keeps you perpetually on the defensive, and thus perpetually losing ground.

    More effective, I think, would be to taunt them with it:

    Instead of 'why is that that Whites and Asians don't have a color?'

    how 'bout referring to Whites as 'people of hands and feet' (if we want to go for mockery)

    or 'people of brains' (if we want to go for the shiv).

    (Asians can and should look out for themselves, as they certainly will)

    I like Derb’s “sun people” and “snow people” (Northern versus equatorial and Southern ancestral origins).

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    • Replies: @Jim Don Bob
    Sun people and snow people come from Leonard Jeffries (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leonard_Jeffries) one of the original black whackos. CUNY eventually fired him.
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  176. @B. Daddy
    The problem with black home ownership is when you own a house, you're de facto running a small business, and attention must be paid, every day, or you suffer the fiscal consequences directly, and sometimes dramatically. There's a lot to say about timing, and judgement, when you own a home.

    Typically, black folks just ain't down wit dat. They'll let a relatively small problem turn into a massive problem, with no sense of urgency to rectify it. Next thing they know, they're out on the street.

    You could have a mold issue that might cost a grand to fix, but if you let it go for a few years, it could take 100K to fix. Same goes for... you name it. Also, delaying gratification isn't what too many black folks like to do, so when they want a flash car, new furniture, and giant flat screen, and have an option to refinance their loan to make it happen, they'll tend to do it, despite the obvious consequences a couple of years later.

    American black culture is generally NOT congruent with home ownership.

    The manifestation of black culture comes from being slaves, and that's why so many adhere to it to they very day. They enjoy being on welfare, blaming "massa" for not seeing to their needs. Employing "trickery" to get ahead. It's the entire reason they were bamboozled into joining the Democratic party! To give up being a democrat would be to emancipate themselves psychologically at the most profound level, and they're NOT ready for that yet. They're just not. Even African and Haitian blacks point and laugh at American blacks, for good reason.

    When you see a grand exodus of American Blacks convert into card-carrying members of the Republican or even Libertarian party, you can take for granted that successful black home ownership will increase dramatically.

    Guaranteed.

    Until then, I'm afraid black folks complaining about "redlining" are just "Negroes talkin' shit in the cotton fields." Ain't no need to pay them no mind no how.

    Absolutely agree with your point about home ownership/repairs/costs now vs later.

    There’s another piece to this that never gets touched:

    All those houses/properties that Angelo Mozilo etc. handed out, and those who got them didn’t maintain or let run down or trashed–what dollar value can we put on that destruction?

    How many nice neighborhoods, and neighbors, saw downturns in THEIR property valuations?

    How much crime came to those areas?

    How do we put a value on the destruction of real property?

    What damage was done to the tax base, in what areas?

    With blacks it’s always what they deserve. Never what they get, squander, and cost others.

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  177. @Buffalo Joe
    Yan, if you did a photo line up , using just Asians and Blacks dressed in medical garb and asked people of every race to pick a doctor from the line up, how many would pick a black doctor over and Asian doctor.

    Lots of them would pick a black doctor for somebody else, very few for themselves.

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  178. @Another Canadian
    The current US mortgage market is an anomaly in place and time. In Canada, for example:

    1. 30 year mortgages, what the heck is that? In Canada most mortgages are 5 years or less term with a 25-year amortization. Also, hefty prepayment penalties so it's tough to take advantage of falling rates unless you have a short mortgage term.

    2. Mortgages are attached to the borrower, not the property. If you move to a more expensive new house, just take out another loan to make up the difference. This means banks are more interested in your ability to pay than the quality of the mortgage collateral. Also, a Canadian just can't walk away from a mortgage if housing values drop. The lender can go after all your other assets to settle defaulted mortgage debt.

    3. No mortgage interest deduction. Canada freely admits it does not support home ownership over other types of housing. You're on your own as a homeowner and lenders realise this when they lend.

    I've spoken with some US old timers back in the 1980s and they indicated that the US mortgage market was similar to the Canadian prior to the 1940s so much of this "red-lining" chatter may just reflect more stringent lending standards of the past being viewed through the diversity-inclusion lens of the present.

    Thanks for the observations. One question, is it legal in Canada for a contractor/homebuilder to build a house on spec? (Speculation)

    I was acquainted with an Ontario woman ten-twelve years ago who told me you couldn’t build a house in Canada unless a buyer had commissioned it. Contractors could not simply build homes and hope they sold.

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    • Replies: @Another Canadian
    Yes, it's legal to build on spec. We have been seeing a lot of this in older neighbourhoods in Toronto. A builder buys a small bungalow on a deep lot, demolishes it, then builds the biggest house legally possible on the lot, claims to be living in it in order to qualify for the exemption on capital gains for a primary residence, then sells for a big profit. What could possibly go wrong?
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  179. @William Badwhite
    "our general willingness to tolerate anti-Asian bigotry "

    You could always go home.

    You could always go home.

    No kidding. That character is so tiresome. First, what he asserts is NOT true – Asians are not the most discriminated minority group in the U.S. Not by far. Second, he’s just one note. There is nothing interesting, funny, or insightful of his comments. It’s just whining that Asians don’t have it good. I wish he’d find somewhere better then. And Godspeed.

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    • Replies: @Lagertha
    I have so missed you, babe (shut up :))
    ! My babies are graduating...some still in...all great U's. I know your kids are younger than mine. Tell them to go for the scholarships! and either beaches or Mountains.
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  180. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Citizen of a Silly Country
    Yep, this logical argument pretty much destroys every race/gender myth, not that anyone cares. For all of these unfair inequalities (women in tech, blacks getting loans, Mexicans not becoming physicists, etc.) to perpetuate would require a conspiracy that no only includes evil white guys, but the "good guys" - blacks, women, Hispanics, Jews, Asians and woke whites.

    What these Cult of Equality people (they're not just leftists because the GOP believes the same thing) can't seem to figure out is that evil white guys don't control the hiring and firing of every last person in the country, nor do we control every last investment dollar, nor are we the CEO of every company - large and small - in the United States.

    There are women executives, Hispanic CEOs and woke white bankers, who presumably won't discriminate because 1) they think that it's wrong and 2) they don't want to lose money or promotions by not hiring the best people available or making very profitable deals. (Btw, this conspiracy theory also presumes that mean white gusy would rather lose money and promotions than be fair.)

    If evil white (but an East or South Asian) guys are blocking women from moving up in the tech, that would mean a surplus of very talented women programmers would be available. Smart companies and executives would snap them up, create better products at a cheaper price and crush the competition, thus causing misogynistic white males to lose their jobs and fade away.

    It's Darwinism at its finest.

    If evil white (but not Jewish) guys are blocking perfectly good blacks and Hispanics from getting loans, woke white bankers will step and make those profitable loans. This will increase their profits, allowing those banks to eventually overtake the evil, racists banks.

    This would happen in every field and in every way until mean white guys either figured out that they were wrong or were left unemployed and pointless.

    The fact that this Darwinian process doesn't happen shows that it's not evil whites keeping PoC and women down - again, not that anyone cares.

    This assumes, of course, that markets are efficient.

    In engineering terms, markets always have some efficiency, but never one hundred percent, and some markets are quite poor. Nevertheless, markets have proven efficient enough that if there were any sizable number of discriminated-against female programmers who were underemployed because female, someone would capitalize on this to some extent, and essentially no one is. (There is the case in the UK a long time ago of that woman who hired other women and had them code at home, I can’t remember her name, but that involved routine COBOL type stuff.)

    Few women really want to be and are particularly good at being developers and of those, most are fairly successful. The only field that I know of where there is some legitimacy to the claim of women genuinely being disadvantaged against by attitudes and work environment is that of game development, which is a high testosterone environment.

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  181. @whorefinder
    Tribalism wins. Truth wins. Reality wins.

    Civic nationalism loses.

    Race and ethnicity cause differences in violent crime rates and loan trustworthiness. Fact.

    Get over it.

    Terse. Angry. Exactly where they want you.

    U R divided, and U R conquered.

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    • Replies: @whorefinder
    lol. Oh yes, little cuck, the trick is to be a little boy, not get angry, and keep losing. (/sarcasm)

    Abortion.Gay "marriage". Trannyism. Hate Whitey. Affirmative action. Open borders. Diversity.

    We're angry...and anger unites us. And will let us won Righteous anger is demanded by God against evil. And it saves.

    And that's why you're just a loser, little cuck. Your divisions and refusal to win won't work anymore, son.

    , @Anonymous
    If they are going to lose anyway, might as well let them have some fun.
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  182. @Art Deco
    Your conception of who 'isn't doing all that well' appears to encompass the entire adult population under the age of 60. Do you really fancy the nation's geezers are living like pashas on the backs of everyone else?

    See the comment to which I was replying. The idea of Geezer-paradise did not originate with me

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  183. @Jim Don Bob
    Do you mean the credit reports from agencies like Experian or the numeric FICO score?

    I'm 825. My 26 year old daughter is 850.

    Numeric FICO score. Most renters don’t have credit scores like yours (well, hardly anyone for that matter, including me).

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    • Replies: @Jim Don Bob
    40 years of mortgages and credit cards with never a late payment has something to do with my 825. Thanks for the reply.

    My brother rented apartments for years and ran credit reports on everybody. He didn't rent to people who "were late on their electric bill" or whatever.

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  184. @S. Anonyia
    “Everything about the established facts” suggests Harris never got seriously bullied. He was not that short at 5’7, he had a date to his freshman homecoming, and he had plenty of friends. He did seem to develop some sort of psychological problem in high school though, where he did pointlessly edgy things like faking a suicide for attention. Harris also had a lengthy history of low level juvenile delinquency- smashing windshields, breaking into vehicles, setting off firecrackers in alleys. He likely had delusions of grandeur exacerbated by his medication.

    Klebold likely was bullied some and was depressed though. But even he still had a date to prom, something half of high school guys don’t get.

    Dylan’s mother wrote the following in her book:

    Once, during sophomore year, Dylan said something to Tom [Dylan's father] about “hating the jocks.” Tom asked him if they were giving him a hard time, and Dylan answered with confidence: “They don’t bother me. I’m six four. But they sure give Eric hell.”

    Eric himself wrote:

    Everyone is always making fun of me because of how I look, how fucking weak I am and shit, well I will get you all back: ultimate fucking revenge here. you people could have shown more respect, treated me better, asked for my knowledge or guidence more, treated me more like senior, and maybe I wouldn’t have been as ready to tear your fucking heads off. then again, I have always hated how I looked, I make fun of people who look like me, sometimes without even thinking sometimes just because I want to rip on myself. Thats where a lot of my hate grows from, the fact that I have practically no selfesteem, especially concerning girls and looks and such. therefore people make fun of me… constantly… therefore I get no respect and therefore I get fucking PISSED.

    http://www.acolumbinesite.com/eric/writing/journal/journal.php

    An interesting aspect of Columbine is that we have fairly extensive documentation of the boys’ lives before the massacre, including video clips of their “typical” activities at the school:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MvquFYMMOrg#t=1m44s

    This clip is often cited as evidence that Harris was bullied. I wouldn’t go that far, but I do find it interesting to observe his body language.

    From 1:45 to roughly 1:59, Harris (wearing the black “Tour ’97″ T-shirt) acts normally, but when he sees the group of guys walking toward him, he tenses up and looks straight ahead, steeling himself for a confrontation.

    (Note that the jock on the far right side of the screen is flipping the bird. Also note that it was not Dylan who was holding the camera, but Erik Veik – a friend of Eric and Dylan’s who, several months after the massacre, was arrested for threatening to “finish the job.”)

    At 2:04, as Harris nears the jocks, he lowers his head, avoiding eye contact with the larger boys, in a classic display of submission. He cowers like a little dog.

    The vitriol he spews in his journal is the impotent rage of a gamma male who cannot abide life’s little humiliations.

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  185. @William Badwhite
    Looks like I failed internet posting 101.

    Tried to post a pic of this smirking ninny

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aaron_Glantz

    Glantz’s collaborator was Emmanuel Martinez, a data reporter, which is a new subset of journalism post-Nate Silver and FiveThirtyEight.

    https://www.revealnews.org/author/emmanuelmartinez/

    I think one of the dangers of data reporting is that you fall in love with the numbers and you don’t pay attention to where the numbers come from, what the individual data points say, and whether the non-data aspect of the story’s narrative makes any sense.

    Having said that, I’d like to see a lot more data reporting on immigration. All you get are poster children in the media, not typical DACA people. Let’s see a graph of educational attainment, salary, out-of-wedlock kids, body mass index, height, facial attractiveness (use a Hot-or-Not interface with Mechanical Turk), and so on for all DACA people and all illegal immigramts, perhaps by source country. Numbers USA needs to expand their offerings. You get glimpses of the real picture from videos and photos of various protests.

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  186. A loan for a home purchase covers:

    - Land
    - Structure

    You also need to immediately pay for:

    - Furniture
    - Appliances
    - Window treatments
    - Exterior landscaping, paving, and improvements

    If you pay a down payment of 10 or 20 percent, you need that much in cash money to fund the last four things on the list. So really you need to have double your down payment to buy a house. That’s why I think that no-down loans are crazy. If the purchaser doen’t have the down payment, he’s not going to be able to have the money for the rest.

    And I’m not mentioning savings for repairs and maintenance and keeping up with your home insurance and taxes.

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    • Replies: @Jim Don Bob

    That’s why I think that no-down loans are crazy.
     
    Agree. A no-down loan means you are essentially renting.
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  187. For those curious, Rachelle thinks Rutgers is in Pennsylvania.

    https://www.linkedin.com/in/rachellefaroul/

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  188. @anon
    http://www.creditslips.org/creditslips/2018/02/churches-are-still-filing-bankruptcy.html

    Black churches fill Chapter 11 at a disproportionate rate. Just another data point.

    This makes me wonder if blacks are more apt to subscribe to the name-it-and-claim-it prosperity gospel (and it is my impression they do), where they make a leap of faith because they believe God will deliver the home/church/etc. no matter what the odds are.

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  189. @Triumph104
    Irving Fryar was an NFL wide receiver for 17 years. In 2015, Fryar and his mother were convicted of mortgage fraud and order to pay $615,000 in restitution to five institutions. Fryar has been an ordained minister since the early 90s and part of the mortgage scam was falsely stating that his mother earned over $4000 a month as an employee at his church.

    Not that black ministers have a monopoly on playing on people’s insecurities and superstitions to gain personal wealth…that said, in my formerly majority black neighborhood on Sundays the minister would arrive in our inner city DC neighborhood in his Cadillac with Maryland plates in a bespoke suit that cost more than most of his congregation would make in a month. Every year there was a collection to buy him a ‘gift’ like a Rolex. It was disgusting.

    Then again, Jeremiah Wright got his church to build him a $1.6 million mansion in a suburb that is only 2% black, so our local guy was a total amateur.

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    • Agree: Triumph104
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  190. @Anonymous
    Just as a stupid data point, I've tested at 146 and 152 and I was financially illiterate well into my 40s. They don't teach you this stuff in school, and my parents were AWOL.

    Agreed, financial literacy should be taught a lot more than it is, beginning at early ages.

    Money knowledge is more important than some of the things students are expected to learn. It could be worked into elementary and middle math curricula far more than it is, and it could also be included as a subject for social studies or whatever. As kids move up, the subject could easily hold its own as a full-year, mandatory high school class!

    One wonders, as an aside, if there is a type of financial intelligence that deviates from general intelligence or IQ in some individuals.

    Nurture must be a factor, of course. Growing up I knew a kid who liked to buy, sell and trade things. He sold me some interesting items, and there was always a negotiation, a deal to be made. I called him a wheeler-dealer. His grandfather next door was an antique dealer who gave him things to sell and taught him the business. By age eleven I had learned some things about “the art of the deal” from this kid.

    Years later I re-visited that town from childhood. I found out he was dead. He had gotten into drug dealing. Being clever does not guarantee a good life, or even a long one.

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  191. @William Badwhite
    "This is straightforward and intentional demonization of whites."

    Why would a guy named AARON GLANTZ do such a thing?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aaron_Glantz#/media/File:Aaron_Glantz_(14266067539)_(cropped).jpg

    Your link is one of those Wikipedia pseudo images. If you see content at the link other than the actual image right click on it and “open image in new tab” then use that link.

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  192. @Buzz Mohawk
    Okay, okay. So only strictly 100 is average, but there is a big, fat part of the curve that is not exceptional. It includes around one SD below and one above. You're right, though, and I was stretching the point.

    My personal perspective is that a lot of people have bad credit, and the further you go down the curve, the worse it gets. That does matter.

    This paper looks at some interesting correlations with credit scores: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4260546/

    The figure below includes IQ and education, but what really jumps out at me is how low the credit scores are for the quintile lowest in self-control.

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    • Replies: @Buzz Mohawk
    Good stuff! It makes perfect sense that self-control correlates with credit score. It correlates with IQ too, of course. Its lack really stands out, though, in the truly abysmal credit histories.
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  193. @Samuel Skinner

    Also inconvenient to alt-right’s claims of white supremacy, exceptionalism, etc.
     
    Historically white supremacists recognized that Asians were better then them; that was the reason for excluding the Chinese and Japanese from immigrating to the United States. The yellow peril was about the threat Asians would pose if they worked together like Europeans did.

    Not according to my mother. The Yellow Peril was the old adage, if you started the Chinese marching past you, four abreast, the line would never end. (I.e., the insane numbers of them already, they’d have time to have enough babies, and for the babies to grow up, and they to reproduce yet again, before the parents at the back of the line reached you.)

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    • Replies: @Twinkie
    Your mother never read Jack London, eh? http://london.sonoma.edu/writings/Revolution/yellow.html

    The menace to the Western world lies, not in the little brown man, but in the four hundred millions of yellow men should the little brown man undertake their management. The Chinese is not dead to new ideas; he is an efficient worker; makes a good soldier, and is wealthy in the essential materials of a machine age. Under a capable management he will go far. The Japanese is prepared and fit to undertake this management. Not only has he proved himself an apt imitator of Western material progress, a sturdy worker, and a capable organizer, but he is far more fit to manage the Chinese than are we. The baffling enigma of the Chinese character is no baffling enigma to him. He understands as we could never school ourselves nor hope to understand. Their mental processes are largely the same. He thinks with the same thought-symbols as does the Chinese, and he thinks in the same peculiar grooves. He goes on where we are balked by the obstacles of incomprehension. He takes the turning which we cannot perceive, twists around the obstacle, and, presto! is out of sight in the ramifications of the Chinese mind where we cannot follow.

    The Chinese has been called the type of permanence, and well he has merited it, dozing as he has through the ages. And as truly was the Japanese the type of permanence up to a generation ago, when he suddenly awoke and startled the world with a rejuvenescence the like of which the world had never seen before. The ideas of the West were the leaven which quickened the Japanese; and the ideas of the West, transmitted by the Japanese mind into ideas Japanese, may well make the leaven powerful enough to quicken the Chinese.

    We have had Africa for the Africander, and at no distant day we shall hear "Asia for the Asiatic!" Four hundred million indefatigable workers (deft, intelligent, and unafraid to die), aroused and rejuvenescent, managed and guided by forty-five million additional human beings who are splendid fighting animals, scientific and modern, constitute that menace to the Western world which has been well named the "Yellow Peril." The possibility of race adventure has not passed away. We are in the midst of our own. The Slav is just girding himself up to begin. Why may not the yellow and the brown start out on an adventure as tremendous as our own and more strikingly unique?
     
    Just in case you suffer from reading incomprehension, “the brown man” here refers to the Japanese.
    , @Anonymous
    The current USA population is, or soon will be, numerically equivalent to China's population when your mother likely first heard that remark.

    Yet another reason to control immigration!
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  194. @res
    This paper looks at some interesting correlations with credit scores: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4260546/

    The figure below includes IQ and education, but what really jumps out at me is how low the credit scores are for the quintile lowest in self-control.

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4260546/bin/pnas.1409794111fig02.jpg

    Good stuff! It makes perfect sense that self-control correlates with credit score. It correlates with IQ too, of course. Its lack really stands out, though, in the truly abysmal credit histories.

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  195. @Yan Shen

    By the way, if blacks and browns are People of Color, but whites and Asians are not, then what color are Asians?

    Invisible color?
     

    Asian Americans, in particular those of East Asian descent, are one of the smallest minority groups in America and are undoubtedly people of color. They're also the most openly discriminated against group in this country, as the recent lawsuits against Harvard or our general willingness to tolerate anti-Asian bigotry shows.

    Sadly, the racist mainstream media consistently ignores East Asians in our national discourse on race. When will these so called progressives own up to their hate?

    Asian Americans, in particular those of East Asian descent, are one of the smallest minority groups in America and are undoubtedly people of color. They’re also the most openly discriminated against group in this country. . . .

    Not even close. Whites are the ones who get screwed openly.

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    • Replies: @Twinkie
    “No! WE are the biggest victims!”
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  196. @Yan Shen

    By the way, if blacks and browns are People of Color, but whites and Asians are not, then what color are Asians?

    Invisible color?
     

    Asian Americans, in particular those of East Asian descent, are one of the smallest minority groups in America and are undoubtedly people of color. They're also the most openly discriminated against group in this country, as the recent lawsuits against Harvard or our general willingness to tolerate anti-Asian bigotry shows.

    Sadly, the racist mainstream media consistently ignores East Asians in our national discourse on race. When will these so called progressives own up to their hate?

    dupe

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  197. @William Badwhite
    "This is straightforward and intentional demonization of whites."

    Why would a guy named AARON GLANTZ do such a thing?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aaron_Glantz#/media/File:Aaron_Glantz_(14266067539)_(cropped).jpg

    He is just a typical Aryan man. Nothing to see here, goy.

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  198. @Twinkie

    You could always go home.
     
    No kidding. That character is so tiresome. First, what he asserts is NOT true - Asians are not the most discriminated minority group in the U.S. Not by far. Second, he’s just one note. There is nothing interesting, funny, or insightful of his comments. It’s just whining that Asians don’t have it good. I wish he’d find somewhere better then. And Godspeed.

    I have so missed you, babe (shut up :))
    ! My babies are graduating…some still in…all great U’s. I know your kids are younger than mine. Tell them to go for the scholarships! and either beaches or Mountains.

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  199. @anonymous
    Terse. Angry. Exactly where they want you.

    U R divided, and U R conquered.

    lol. Oh yes, little cuck, the trick is to be a little boy, not get angry, and keep losing. (/sarcasm)

    Abortion.Gay “marriage”. Trannyism. Hate Whitey. Affirmative action. Open borders. Diversity.

    We’re angry…and anger unites us. And will let us won Righteous anger is demanded by God against evil. And it saves.

    And that’s why you’re just a loser, little cuck. Your divisions and refusal to win won’t work anymore, son.

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  200. @anonymous
    Terse. Angry. Exactly where they want you.

    U R divided, and U R conquered.

    If they are going to lose anyway, might as well let them have some fun.

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  201. @Corn
    Thanks for the observations. One question, is it legal in Canada for a contractor/homebuilder to build a house on spec? (Speculation)

    I was acquainted with an Ontario woman ten-twelve years ago who told me you couldn’t build a house in Canada unless a buyer had commissioned it. Contractors could not simply build homes and hope they sold.

    Yes, it’s legal to build on spec. We have been seeing a lot of this in older neighbourhoods in Toronto. A builder buys a small bungalow on a deep lot, demolishes it, then builds the biggest house legally possible on the lot, claims to be living in it in order to qualify for the exemption on capital gains for a primary residence, then sells for a big profit. What could possibly go wrong?

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  202. Did they examine the rather large subcategory of loans that are done entirely online? The last several times I have mortgaged/refinanced it was done thru the internet with no face-to-face interaction at all until the closer showed up with the final paperwork after approval. If their theory is valid I should think that the fact that my name sounds very blackish would have given me some difficulty. I suspect that an 800-plus credit score had more to do with the prompt approvals…

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  203. @J.Ross
    I like Derb's "sun people" and "snow people" (Northern versus equatorial and Southern ancestral origins).

    Sun people and snow people come from Leonard Jeffries (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leonard_Jeffries) one of the original black whackos. CUNY eventually fired him.

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    • Replies: @J.Ross
    It's more elegant than "us and the NorthEast Asians."
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  204. @midtown
    Numeric FICO score. Most renters don't have credit scores like yours (well, hardly anyone for that matter, including me).

    40 years of mortgages and credit cards with never a late payment has something to do with my 825. Thanks for the reply.

    My brother rented apartments for years and ran credit reports on everybody. He didn’t rent to people who “were late on their electric bill” or whatever.

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  205. @Chris Marsk
    A loan for a home purchase covers:

    - Land
    - Structure

    You also need to immediately pay for:

    - Furniture
    - Appliances
    - Window treatments
    - Exterior landscaping, paving, and improvements

    If you pay a down payment of 10 or 20 percent, you need that much in cash money to fund the last four things on the list. So really you need to have double your down payment to buy a house. That's why I think that no-down loans are crazy. If the purchaser doen't have the down payment, he's not going to be able to have the money for the rest.

    And I'm not mentioning savings for repairs and maintenance and keeping up with your home insurance and taxes.

    That’s why I think that no-down loans are crazy.

    Agree. A no-down loan means you are essentially renting.

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  206. @JSM
    Not according to my mother. The Yellow Peril was the old adage, if you started the Chinese marching past you, four abreast, the line would never end. (I.e., the insane numbers of them already, they'd have time to have enough babies, and for the babies to grow up, and they to reproduce yet again, before the parents at the back of the line reached you.)

    Your mother never read Jack London, eh? http://london.sonoma.edu/writings/Revolution/yellow.html

    The menace to the Western world lies, not in the little brown man, but in the four hundred millions of yellow men should the little brown man undertake their management. The Chinese is not dead to new ideas; he is an efficient worker; makes a good soldier, and is wealthy in the essential materials of a machine age. Under a capable management he will go far. The Japanese is prepared and fit to undertake this management. Not only has he proved himself an apt imitator of Western material progress, a sturdy worker, and a capable organizer, but he is far more fit to manage the Chinese than are we. The baffling enigma of the Chinese character is no baffling enigma to him. He understands as we could never school ourselves nor hope to understand. Their mental processes are largely the same. He thinks with the same thought-symbols as does the Chinese, and he thinks in the same peculiar grooves. He goes on where we are balked by the obstacles of incomprehension. He takes the turning which we cannot perceive, twists around the obstacle, and, presto! is out of sight in the ramifications of the Chinese mind where we cannot follow.

    The Chinese has been called the type of permanence, and well he has merited it, dozing as he has through the ages. And as truly was the Japanese the type of permanence up to a generation ago, when he suddenly awoke and startled the world with a rejuvenescence the like of which the world had never seen before. The ideas of the West were the leaven which quickened the Japanese; and the ideas of the West, transmitted by the Japanese mind into ideas Japanese, may well make the leaven powerful enough to quicken the Chinese.

    We have had Africa for the Africander, and at no distant day we shall hear “Asia for the Asiatic!” Four hundred million indefatigable workers (deft, intelligent, and unafraid to die), aroused and rejuvenescent, managed and guided by forty-five million additional human beings who are splendid fighting animals, scientific and modern, constitute that menace to the Western world which has been well named the “Yellow Peril.” The possibility of race adventure has not passed away. We are in the midst of our own. The Slav is just girding himself up to begin. Why may not the yellow and the brown start out on an adventure as tremendous as our own and more strikingly unique?

    Just in case you suffer from reading incomprehension, “the brown man” here refers to the Japanese.

    Read More
    • Replies: @J.Ross
    Jack London? Jack "exterminate the Han with chemical weapons" London? So two world wars ago your adoptive people were the jjokbari of the world?
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  207. @ben tillman

    Asian Americans, in particular those of East Asian descent, are one of the smallest minority groups in America and are undoubtedly people of color. They’re also the most openly discriminated against group in this country. . . .
     
    Not even close. Whites are the ones who get screwed openly.

    “No! WE are the biggest victims!”

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  208. @anon
    A friend of mine lives in Flint and called the cops on copper thieves who had broken into his neighbor's house in broad daylight. The dispatcher said that was not a high priority and no cops ever came. Whereas I live in a nearby community where two squad cars will show up in minutes if your busybody neighbor tattles on someone merely for "acting suspicious." I don't know how anyone expects Flint to recover if burglary and copper theft are essentially legal. Maybe no one does expect Flint to recover.

    Maybe no one does expect Flint to recover.

    That right there.

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  209. @Twinkie
    Your mother never read Jack London, eh? http://london.sonoma.edu/writings/Revolution/yellow.html

    The menace to the Western world lies, not in the little brown man, but in the four hundred millions of yellow men should the little brown man undertake their management. The Chinese is not dead to new ideas; he is an efficient worker; makes a good soldier, and is wealthy in the essential materials of a machine age. Under a capable management he will go far. The Japanese is prepared and fit to undertake this management. Not only has he proved himself an apt imitator of Western material progress, a sturdy worker, and a capable organizer, but he is far more fit to manage the Chinese than are we. The baffling enigma of the Chinese character is no baffling enigma to him. He understands as we could never school ourselves nor hope to understand. Their mental processes are largely the same. He thinks with the same thought-symbols as does the Chinese, and he thinks in the same peculiar grooves. He goes on where we are balked by the obstacles of incomprehension. He takes the turning which we cannot perceive, twists around the obstacle, and, presto! is out of sight in the ramifications of the Chinese mind where we cannot follow.

    The Chinese has been called the type of permanence, and well he has merited it, dozing as he has through the ages. And as truly was the Japanese the type of permanence up to a generation ago, when he suddenly awoke and startled the world with a rejuvenescence the like of which the world had never seen before. The ideas of the West were the leaven which quickened the Japanese; and the ideas of the West, transmitted by the Japanese mind into ideas Japanese, may well make the leaven powerful enough to quicken the Chinese.

    We have had Africa for the Africander, and at no distant day we shall hear "Asia for the Asiatic!" Four hundred million indefatigable workers (deft, intelligent, and unafraid to die), aroused and rejuvenescent, managed and guided by forty-five million additional human beings who are splendid fighting animals, scientific and modern, constitute that menace to the Western world which has been well named the "Yellow Peril." The possibility of race adventure has not passed away. We are in the midst of our own. The Slav is just girding himself up to begin. Why may not the yellow and the brown start out on an adventure as tremendous as our own and more strikingly unique?
     
    Just in case you suffer from reading incomprehension, “the brown man” here refers to the Japanese.

    Jack London? Jack “exterminate the Han with chemical weapons” London? So two world wars ago your adoptive people were the jjokbari of the world?

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  210. @Jim Don Bob
    Sun people and snow people come from Leonard Jeffries (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leonard_Jeffries) one of the original black whackos. CUNY eventually fired him.

    It’s more elegant than “us and the NorthEast Asians.”

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  211. @Paleo Liberal
    There is much truth to that.

    Ever hear of the Werther Effect?

    The Werther Effect shows that when there are highly publicized suicides, the suicide rate goes up. If the suicide is a solo event, solo suicides go up. If the suicide involves taking the lives of innocents, such as crashing an airplane with passengers, then suicides involving taking the lives of innocents go up.

    Monkey see, monkey do.

    It makes perfect sense that there would be copycat killers. Look at the protection Ted Kennedy had.

    Ever hear of the Werther Effect?

    I think of it every time I see one of those candies.

    Ayds wasn’t immune to unfortunate homophones, and disappeared. But no one in this country reads Goethe, so Werther’s is safe.

    Read More
    • Replies: @ScarletNumber
    Well the best way to lose weight is to get Ayds.
    , @J.Ross
    Oh my god thank you for this.
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  212. @JSM
    Not according to my mother. The Yellow Peril was the old adage, if you started the Chinese marching past you, four abreast, the line would never end. (I.e., the insane numbers of them already, they'd have time to have enough babies, and for the babies to grow up, and they to reproduce yet again, before the parents at the back of the line reached you.)

    The current USA population is, or soon will be, numerically equivalent to China’s population when your mother likely first heard that remark.

    Yet another reason to control immigration!

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  213. @res
    Does anyone here have a good study for mortgage denial/interest/default rates by race?

    This seems like a reasonable look at the issue from 1998: http://www.csus.edu/indiv/c/chalmersk/econ251fa12/evidenceofdiscriminationinmortgagelending.pdf
    But notes the following (emphasis mine, probably a valuable clue):

    Somewhat surprisingly, very little information on default rates by race is available. In one review of die default literature that went back to die 1960s, Quercia and Stegman (1992) briefly mention only one article that used race as an explanatory variable. According to that study by Evans et al. (1985), blacks had 7.5 percent more defaults than whites, but the difference in expected losses was only 2.4 percent. A more recent study, discussed in greater detail below, found that raw default rates on loans insured by the Federal Housing Administration were 2 percentage points higher for black borrowers than for white borrowers, even after other key characteristics of the borrower and the neighborhood were taken into account (Berkovec et al., 1996b, p. 20). If the evidence of higher default rates among minority groups holds up in future research, it would provide a motive for lenders to engage in profit-motivated statistical discrimination against minorities.
     
    The 1985 Evans study is online at http://www.jstor.org/stable/40472807 and can be read for free with registration (also available at libgen with DOI 10.2307/40472807). They advocate using expected loss (percentage) as a metric, which seems like a good idea to me, but IMHO the numbers cited above provide an excellent example of statistical obfuscation (but are easily explained by being easiest to extract from the regression coefficients on page 80). Looking at Table 1 in Evans we see that default rates range from 2.56% to 14.67% (!) while the expected loss rates range from 0.558% to 6.453%. The lower rates of loss mean that the absolute rate differences quoted make the loss rate difference seem smaller. It would be much better to express the racial rate differences as ratios to compare the rates of default and expected loss. For a quick and dirty way of doing this I set all of the other variables to 0 and compared the B/W differences in P (prob of default) and E (expected loss):
    var Black White Ratio
    P 12.58% 5.11% 2.46
    E 3.6% 1.25% 2.88
    So we see that for at least one case the B/W difference is actually worse for expected loss (contrast to the impression given by the numbers I quoted above). Changing the Loan to Value Ratio (largest coefficients after race) from 0 (90-95%) to 1 (over 95%) gives
    var Black White Ratio
    P 8.13% 1.19% 6.83
    E 2.56% 0.21% 12.2
    Ouch! I am surprised that increasing the LtV decreases the default/expected loss rates so if anyone wants to double check please do so. Any ideas for explaining this oddity?
    Table 2 and Figure 2 give another metric (semivariance) and compare it to expected loss.
    Table 3 gives a very interesting look at expected loss and semivariance compared for each variable. Part III covers race and differs from my conclusions above (not sure why, perhaps "When Paired Comparisons are Controlled for Other Risk Factors"?). The Expected Loss ratios range from 1.8 to 7.
    Part II covers LtV and gives the expected "higher LtVs are riskier" so I am not sure why the regression coefficient is as it is.
    I highly recommend Table 3 for anyone who wants a (admittedly very old) look at how risk compares for Loan Size/LtV/City/Race differences.
    That paper seems like a model of clarity of presentation to me. I just wish they had also included average interest rates so we could see how those corresponded to losses.

    Back to the first link, page 3/49 has some discussion of the importance of which variables are controlled for.

    I think this excerpt from the conclusion summarizes the issue nicely:

    While it is not clear whether the discrimination that emerges from the Boston Fed study is attributable to a taste for discrimination or to profit-motivated statistical discrimination, my guess is that a substantial part of it is statistical discrimination driven by the drive for profits. If so, market forces are not likely to eliminate it.
     
    P.S. whorefinder's comment 5 pretty well nails it.

    Over the years, I’ve posted links to a dozen or so studies of defaults in the 2008-2012 era by race. Typically blacks and Hispanics had default rates 2 to 5 times white levels, with Asians also being elevated.

    Read More
    • Replies: @res
    Did any of those studies do a particularly good job of capturing the differences between the individuals within racial groups? In other words, to make a fair comparison we really need to compare borrowers and loans which are fairly similar except for race. I think the key questions are:
    - Are equivalent loans for borrowers of different races being charged different interest rates beyond what is justified by loss rates?
    - Are equivalent loan applications for borrowers of different races being denied at different rates beyond what is justified by loss rates?

    Based on what I have read here and elsewhere I believe the answers to both of those questions is no (well, at least in a way that disfavors minorities)--contra narrative. But I don't have as much good data as I would like to support such a controversial conclusion.

    I found the Evans et al. 1985 paper I linked above fairly compelling, but it is quite old.

    Looking through some of your old posts I see:
    http://www.unz.com/isteve/1990s-fha-mortgage-default-rates-by/
    The HUD link is broken, but the report is at
    https://www.huduser.gov/portal/Publications/pdf/FHASingleFamilyDefaultLossRates.pdf
    That looks useful though I am having trouble extracting conclusions from their data. A sample quote:

    Finally, the evidence, though highly tentative, suggests that basing underwriting on the expected loss rate per loan, rather than on default probabilities, will not substantially improve the lot of black applicants. Ranking risks according to the expected loss rate per loan results in even lower representation of blacks in the low risk category, and higher representation of blacks in the high-risk category, when compared with ranking risk by estimated default probabilities alone.
     
    This link captures your post-2013 posts on the topic: https://www.unz.com/isteve/topic/mortgage/

    This looks like a fairly representative example of your housing bubble work: https://www.unz.com/isteve/immigrants-delinquent-on-mortgages-3-6-times-more-often/

    I think you are on target with your observations about default rates and demographic contributions to the housing bubble/crash, but I was hoping to focus a bit more on the claimed disparity aspect and I think to argue against that it is necessary to answer the questions I posed above and not just focus on the raw group default rates.
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  214. @Triumph104
    Speaking of default rates, 49% of blacks default on student loans within 12 years of starting college. Blacks are more likely to default than whites or Hispanics in every measurable category. The default rate for college graduates is 9% overall, 6% for whites, 14% for Hispanics, and 23% for blacks. The default rate for black dropouts is 65%, 75% if they attended a private for-profit institution.

    https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2017/10/17/half-black-student-loan-borrowers-default-new-federal-data-show

    I really don’t like for-profit colleges.

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  215. @Reg Cæsar

    Ever hear of the Werther Effect?
     
    I think of it every time I see one of those candies.

    http://www.groovycandies.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/650x/040ec09b1e35df139433887a97daa66f/w/e/werthers-sugar-free-minis.jpg

    Ayds wasn't immune to unfortunate homophones, and disappeared. But no one in this country reads Goethe, so Werther's is safe.


    https://www.oddee.com/wp-content/uploads/_media/imgs/articles2/a96682_ayds.jpg

    Well the best way to lose weight is to get Ayds.

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  216. @res
    Does anyone here have a good study for mortgage denial/interest/default rates by race?

    This seems like a reasonable look at the issue from 1998: http://www.csus.edu/indiv/c/chalmersk/econ251fa12/evidenceofdiscriminationinmortgagelending.pdf
    But notes the following (emphasis mine, probably a valuable clue):

    Somewhat surprisingly, very little information on default rates by race is available. In one review of die default literature that went back to die 1960s, Quercia and Stegman (1992) briefly mention only one article that used race as an explanatory variable. According to that study by Evans et al. (1985), blacks had 7.5 percent more defaults than whites, but the difference in expected losses was only 2.4 percent. A more recent study, discussed in greater detail below, found that raw default rates on loans insured by the Federal Housing Administration were 2 percentage points higher for black borrowers than for white borrowers, even after other key characteristics of the borrower and the neighborhood were taken into account (Berkovec et al., 1996b, p. 20). If the evidence of higher default rates among minority groups holds up in future research, it would provide a motive for lenders to engage in profit-motivated statistical discrimination against minorities.
     
    The 1985 Evans study is online at http://www.jstor.org/stable/40472807 and can be read for free with registration (also available at libgen with DOI 10.2307/40472807). They advocate using expected loss (percentage) as a metric, which seems like a good idea to me, but IMHO the numbers cited above provide an excellent example of statistical obfuscation (but are easily explained by being easiest to extract from the regression coefficients on page 80). Looking at Table 1 in Evans we see that default rates range from 2.56% to 14.67% (!) while the expected loss rates range from 0.558% to 6.453%. The lower rates of loss mean that the absolute rate differences quoted make the loss rate difference seem smaller. It would be much better to express the racial rate differences as ratios to compare the rates of default and expected loss. For a quick and dirty way of doing this I set all of the other variables to 0 and compared the B/W differences in P (prob of default) and E (expected loss):
    var Black White Ratio
    P 12.58% 5.11% 2.46
    E 3.6% 1.25% 2.88
    So we see that for at least one case the B/W difference is actually worse for expected loss (contrast to the impression given by the numbers I quoted above). Changing the Loan to Value Ratio (largest coefficients after race) from 0 (90-95%) to 1 (over 95%) gives
    var Black White Ratio
    P 8.13% 1.19% 6.83
    E 2.56% 0.21% 12.2
    Ouch! I am surprised that increasing the LtV decreases the default/expected loss rates so if anyone wants to double check please do so. Any ideas for explaining this oddity?
    Table 2 and Figure 2 give another metric (semivariance) and compare it to expected loss.
    Table 3 gives a very interesting look at expected loss and semivariance compared for each variable. Part III covers race and differs from my conclusions above (not sure why, perhaps "When Paired Comparisons are Controlled for Other Risk Factors"?). The Expected Loss ratios range from 1.8 to 7.
    Part II covers LtV and gives the expected "higher LtVs are riskier" so I am not sure why the regression coefficient is as it is.
    I highly recommend Table 3 for anyone who wants a (admittedly very old) look at how risk compares for Loan Size/LtV/City/Race differences.
    That paper seems like a model of clarity of presentation to me. I just wish they had also included average interest rates so we could see how those corresponded to losses.

    Back to the first link, page 3/49 has some discussion of the importance of which variables are controlled for.

    I think this excerpt from the conclusion summarizes the issue nicely:

    While it is not clear whether the discrimination that emerges from the Boston Fed study is attributable to a taste for discrimination or to profit-motivated statistical discrimination, my guess is that a substantial part of it is statistical discrimination driven by the drive for profits. If so, market forces are not likely to eliminate it.
     
    P.S. whorefinder's comment 5 pretty well nails it.

    See also: http://www.jstor.org/stable/24887192

    Abstract. We estimate a mortgage default model with national data on conventional mortgages that were current from 1986 to 1992. Our analysis confirms the results of previous analyses of Federal Housing Authority mortgages: Black households have higher marginal default rates, controlling for differences in borrower and property characteristics. Further, we do not find that Black borrowers have significantly more home equity. These results do not provide evidence of racial discrimination in mortgage lending and suggest that differences in default costs or transaction costs may explain differences in default rates.

    And: http://www.responsiblelending.org/mortgage-lending/research-analysis/foreclosures-by-race-and-ethnicity.pdf

    • The majority (an estimated 56%) of families who lost homes were non-Hispanic and white, but African-American and Latino families were disproportionately affected relative to their share of mortgage originations.
    • Among recent borrowers, we estimate that nearly 8% of both African Americans and Latinos have lost their homes to foreclosures, compared to 4.5% of whites.
    • The racial and ethnic disparities in these estimated foreclosure rates hold even after controlling for differences in income patterns between demographic groups.

    • Non-Hispanic whites represent the majority of at-risk borrowers, but African-American and Latino borrowers are more likely to be at imminent risk of foreclosure (21.6% and 21.4%, respectively) than non-Hispanic white borrowers (14.8%).
    • American Indian (16.5%), Native Hawaiian or other Pacific Islanders (18.6%), and Asian borrowers (15.7%) all also show an increased likelihood of being at-risk.

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    • Replies: @res
    Thank you!

    Your first link has a good discussion of the evidence for/against discrimination and another good discussion of the costs to the borrower of default (though I'm not sure I agree with the way they seem to assume borrowers are economically rational about weighing the costs and benefits of default).

    Your second link has this statement:

    In addition, research previously issued by the Center for Responsible Lending shows that African American and Latino borrowers were about 30% more likely to get higher-rate subprime loans than white borrowers with similar risk characteristics.48

     

    This is in contradiction to one of my questions/assertions above. Following the reference to https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0148619507000847
    we see the abstract:

    This study examines whether borrowers’ race and ethnicity affect subprime loan pricing after accounting for objective determinants, including credit scores and loan-to-value ratios. The results show that African-American and Latino borrowers are more likely to receive higher-rate subprime home loans than non-Latino white borrowers.
     
    but also:

    Our analysis does not allow us to estimate precisely how much race and ethnicity increase the prices charged to borrowers. It is also beyond the scope of this paper to determine definitively why these disparities exist. However, we do explore some possible causes, including the role of discretionary pricing and the potential contribution of market segmentation.

     

    They included a number of borrower/loan/property/economic/geographic variables in their analysis (including FICO score), but one glaring absence (unless I missed it, but Table 1 seems clear about the variables) is data on assets and liabilities: https://budgeting.thenest.com/assets-liabilities-home-loan-application-28222.html
    Given the racial differences in average net worth that seems like an important omission.

    I also wonder about how much of the effect they observe is due to differing levels of financial savviness rather than race. I am pretty sure most lenders would be happy to sell a more expensive loan to anyone if they could.

    This study also does not consider default, expected loss, etc. so we can't use that to check the "fairness" of the underwriting.

    There does seem to be a clear split between studies not finding discrimination looking at default, expected loss, etc. and studies finding discrimination ignoring variables like FICO score (Steve's post) or net worth (the paper above).
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  217. “Why black college graduates default on their student debt more than white dropouts:”

    new data indicates that the way we finance college degrees may exacerbate inequalities.

    …Twelve years after entering college during the 2003-2004 academic year, 21% of black student loan borrowers who graduated with a bachelor’s degree defaulted on their debts, according to an analysis of government data by Judith Scott-Clayton, a professor of economics and education at Columbia University’s Teachers College. But just 18% of white borrowers who actually dropped out of school defaulted 12 years after entering.

    …the analysis highlights particular distress among certain groups of borrowers: Black students and those who attended for-profit colleges. Another irony: In many cases, those two groups overlap.

    One major factor is likely racism in the labor market, Scott-Clayton said, which means that black borrowers — even those who are college graduates — will struggle more than white borrowers to get a job that pays enough to help them pay down their debt. Twelve years after leaving school, black student loan borrowers have $43,372 in debt on average — four times the $10,301 of white borrowers, Scott-Clayton’s research shows.

    Black borrowers are more likely to attend for-profit colleges than white borrowers. Scott-Clayton’s research adds to other evidence that students who attend for-profit colleges have worse outcomes. Of students who entered a for-profit college in the 1995-1996 academic year, nearly 24% defaulted within 12 years, compared to about 8% of students who never attended a for-profit.

    The findings come as stakeholders and policymakers are considering changes to two Obama-era rules that aim to hold for-profit colleges accountable for student outcomes. This research adds important context to that conversation, Scott-Clayton said.

    …“What really breaks my heart and makes me angry is to think of the student who has a really horrible experience at a for-profit, and has a bad outcome as a result, defaults on their loan, and thinks that it’s their fault.” What they don’t realize: They’re part of a much broader problem.

    …Student loan companies may not be serving black borrowers as well as white borrowers, she said. “We know in other sectors of debt and loan management that there are differences in the way people are treated,” Scott-Clayton said. And if she were a government watchdog? “I would be very concerned, are black borrowers getting the same service that other borrowers are getting?”

    It never failed. It just wasn’t tried hard enough.

    https://www.marketwatch.com/story/black-college-graduates-default-on-their-student-debt-more-than-white-dropouts-2018-01-12

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    • Replies: @Triumph104

    One major factor is likely racism
     
    No. The major factors are:

    1. Blacks with good paying jobs are often delinquent on loans. Pricewaterhousecoopers recently started paying $100 a month directly towards their employee's student loans because so many of their minority employees were delinquent. These delinquencies were making it difficult for Pwc to retain or promote the employees. The New York Times did a story on "affluent" married college educated blacks in Milwaukee that still lived in the ghetto and struggled with housing related debt.

    2. A degree from a for-profit school has less value in the marketplace than a degree from a non-profit.

    3. Blacks have poor social networks and are less likely to find jobs through friends and relatives than whites. For-profits attract poorer, less connected people and are a terrible place to network.
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  218. @Steve Sailer
    Over the years, I've posted links to a dozen or so studies of defaults in the 2008-2012 era by race. Typically blacks and Hispanics had default rates 2 to 5 times white levels, with Asians also being elevated.

    Did any of those studies do a particularly good job of capturing the differences between the individuals within racial groups? In other words, to make a fair comparison we really need to compare borrowers and loans which are fairly similar except for race. I think the key questions are:
    - Are equivalent loans for borrowers of different races being charged different interest rates beyond what is justified by loss rates?
    - Are equivalent loan applications for borrowers of different races being denied at different rates beyond what is justified by loss rates?

    Based on what I have read here and elsewhere I believe the answers to both of those questions is no (well, at least in a way that disfavors minorities)–contra narrative. But I don’t have as much good data as I would like to support such a controversial conclusion.

    I found the Evans et al. 1985 paper I linked above fairly compelling, but it is quite old.

    Looking through some of your old posts I see:

    http://www.unz.com/isteve/1990s-fha-mortgage-default-rates-by/

    The HUD link is broken, but the report is at

    https://www.huduser.gov/portal/Publications/pdf/FHASingleFamilyDefaultLossRates.pdf

    That looks useful though I am having trouble extracting conclusions from their data. A sample quote:

    Finally, the evidence, though highly tentative, suggests that basing underwriting on the expected loss rate per loan, rather than on default probabilities, will not substantially improve the lot of black applicants. Ranking risks according to the expected loss rate per loan results in even lower representation of blacks in the low risk category, and higher representation of blacks in the high-risk category, when compared with ranking risk by estimated default probabilities alone.

    This link captures your post-2013 posts on the topic: https://www.unz.com/isteve/topic/mortgage/

    This looks like a fairly representative example of your housing bubble work: https://www.unz.com/isteve/immigrants-delinquent-on-mortgages-3-6-times-more-often/

    I think you are on target with your observations about default rates and demographic contributions to the housing bubble/crash, but I was hoping to focus a bit more on the claimed disparity aspect and I think to argue against that it is necessary to answer the questions I posed above and not just focus on the raw group default rates.

    Read More
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  219. @Twinkie
    See also: http://www.jstor.org/stable/24887192

    Abstract. We estimate a mortgage default model with national data on conventional mortgages that were current from 1986 to 1992. Our analysis confirms the results of previous analyses of Federal Housing Authority mortgages: Black households have higher marginal default rates, controlling for differences in borrower and property characteristics. Further, we do not find that Black borrowers have significantly more home equity. These results do not provide evidence of racial discrimination in mortgage lending and suggest that differences in default costs or transaction costs may explain differences in default rates.
     
    And: http://www.responsiblelending.org/mortgage-lending/research-analysis/foreclosures-by-race-and-ethnicity.pdf

    • The majority (an estimated 56%) of families who lost homes were non-Hispanic and white, but African-American and Latino families were disproportionately affected relative to their share of mortgage originations.
    • Among recent borrowers, we estimate that nearly 8% of both African Americans and Latinos have lost their homes to foreclosures, compared to 4.5% of whites.
    • The racial and ethnic disparities in these estimated foreclosure rates hold even after controlling for differences in income patterns between demographic groups.
     

    • Non-Hispanic whites represent the majority of at-risk borrowers, but African-American and Latino borrowers are more likely to be at imminent risk of foreclosure (21.6% and 21.4%, respectively) than non-Hispanic white borrowers (14.8%).
    • American Indian (16.5%), Native Hawaiian or other Pacific Islanders (18.6%), and Asian borrowers (15.7%) all also show an increased likelihood of being at-risk.
     

    Thank you!

    Your first link has a good discussion of the evidence for/against discrimination and another good discussion of the costs to the borrower of default (though I’m not sure I agree with the way they seem to assume borrowers are economically rational about weighing the costs and benefits of default).

    Your second link has this statement:

    In addition, research previously issued by the Center for Responsible Lending shows that African American and Latino borrowers were about 30% more likely to get higher-rate subprime loans than white borrowers with similar risk characteristics.48

    This is in contradiction to one of my questions/assertions above. Following the reference to https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0148619507000847
    we see the abstract:

    This study examines whether borrowers’ race and ethnicity affect subprime loan pricing after accounting for objective determinants, including credit scores and loan-to-value ratios. The results show that African-American and Latino borrowers are more likely to receive higher-rate subprime home loans than non-Latino white borrowers.

    but also:

    Our analysis does not allow us to estimate precisely how much race and ethnicity increase the prices charged to borrowers. It is also beyond the scope of this paper to determine definitively why these disparities exist. However, we do explore some possible causes, including the role of discretionary pricing and the potential contribution of market segmentation.

    They included a number of borrower/loan/property/economic/geographic variables in their analysis (including FICO score), but one glaring absence (unless I missed it, but Table 1 seems clear about the variables) is data on assets and liabilities: https://budgeting.thenest.com/assets-liabilities-home-loan-application-28222.html
    Given the racial differences in average net worth that seems like an important omission.

    I also wonder about how much of the effect they observe is due to differing levels of financial savviness rather than race. I am pretty sure most lenders would be happy to sell a more expensive loan to anyone if they could.

    This study also does not consider default, expected loss, etc. so we can’t use that to check the “fairness” of the underwriting.

    There does seem to be a clear split between studies not finding discrimination looking at default, expected loss, etc. and studies finding discrimination ignoring variables like FICO score (Steve’s post) or net worth (the paper above).

    Read More
    • Replies: @Twinkie

    Given the racial differences in average net worth that seems like an important omission.

    I also wonder about how much of the effect they observe is due to differing levels of financial savviness rather than race. I am pretty sure most lenders would be happy to sell a more expensive loan to anyone if they could.
     
    I share your assessments.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  220. @mobi
    "Why black college graduates default on their student debt more than white dropouts:"

    new data indicates that the way we finance college degrees may exacerbate inequalities.

    ...Twelve years after entering college during the 2003-2004 academic year, 21% of black student loan borrowers who graduated with a bachelor’s degree defaulted on their debts, according to an analysis of government data by Judith Scott-Clayton, a professor of economics and education at Columbia University’s Teachers College. But just 18% of white borrowers who actually dropped out of school defaulted 12 years after entering.

    ...the analysis highlights particular distress among certain groups of borrowers: Black students and those who attended for-profit colleges. Another irony: In many cases, those two groups overlap.

    One major factor is likely racism in the labor market, Scott-Clayton said, which means that black borrowers — even those who are college graduates — will struggle more than white borrowers to get a job that pays enough to help them pay down their debt. Twelve years after leaving school, black student loan borrowers have $43,372 in debt on average -- four times the $10,301 of white borrowers, Scott-Clayton’s research shows.

    Black borrowers are more likely to attend for-profit colleges than white borrowers. Scott-Clayton’s research adds to other evidence that students who attend for-profit colleges have worse outcomes. Of students who entered a for-profit college in the 1995-1996 academic year, nearly 24% defaulted within 12 years, compared to about 8% of students who never attended a for-profit.

    The findings come as stakeholders and policymakers are considering changes to two Obama-era rules that aim to hold for-profit colleges accountable for student outcomes. This research adds important context to that conversation, Scott-Clayton said.

    ...“What really breaks my heart and makes me angry is to think of the student who has a really horrible experience at a for-profit, and has a bad outcome as a result, defaults on their loan, and thinks that it’s their fault.” What they don’t realize: They’re part of a much broader problem.

    ...Student loan companies may not be serving black borrowers as well as white borrowers, she said. “We know in other sectors of debt and loan management that there are differences in the way people are treated,” Scott-Clayton said. And if she were a government watchdog? “I would be very concerned, are black borrowers getting the same service that other borrowers are getting?”
     

    It never failed. It just wasn't tried hard enough.


    https://www.marketwatch.com/story/black-college-graduates-default-on-their-student-debt-more-than-white-dropouts-2018-01-12

    One major factor is likely racism

    No. The major factors are:

    1. Blacks with good paying jobs are often delinquent on loans. Pricewaterhousecoopers recently started paying $100 a month directly towards their employee’s student loans because so many of their minority employees were delinquent. These delinquencies were making it difficult for Pwc to retain or promote the employees. The New York Times did a story on “affluent” married college educated blacks in Milwaukee that still lived in the ghetto and struggled with housing related debt.

    2. A degree from a for-profit school has less value in the marketplace than a degree from a non-profit.

    3. Blacks have poor social networks and are less likely to find jobs through friends and relatives than whites. For-profits attract poorer, less connected people and are a terrible place to network.

    Read More
    • Replies: @ScarletNumber

    These delinquencies were making it difficult for Pwc to retain or promote the employees.
     
    This seems like a non sequitur.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  221. @res
    Thank you!

    Your first link has a good discussion of the evidence for/against discrimination and another good discussion of the costs to the borrower of default (though I'm not sure I agree with the way they seem to assume borrowers are economically rational about weighing the costs and benefits of default).

    Your second link has this statement:

    In addition, research previously issued by the Center for Responsible Lending shows that African American and Latino borrowers were about 30% more likely to get higher-rate subprime loans than white borrowers with similar risk characteristics.48

     

    This is in contradiction to one of my questions/assertions above. Following the reference to https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0148619507000847
    we see the abstract:

    This study examines whether borrowers’ race and ethnicity affect subprime loan pricing after accounting for objective determinants, including credit scores and loan-to-value ratios. The results show that African-American and Latino borrowers are more likely to receive higher-rate subprime home loans than non-Latino white borrowers.
     
    but also:

    Our analysis does not allow us to estimate precisely how much race and ethnicity increase the prices charged to borrowers. It is also beyond the scope of this paper to determine definitively why these disparities exist. However, we do explore some possible causes, including the role of discretionary pricing and the potential contribution of market segmentation.

     

    They included a number of borrower/loan/property/economic/geographic variables in their analysis (including FICO score), but one glaring absence (unless I missed it, but Table 1 seems clear about the variables) is data on assets and liabilities: https://budgeting.thenest.com/assets-liabilities-home-loan-application-28222.html
    Given the racial differences in average net worth that seems like an important omission.

    I also wonder about how much of the effect they observe is due to differing levels of financial savviness rather than race. I am pretty sure most lenders would be happy to sell a more expensive loan to anyone if they could.

    This study also does not consider default, expected loss, etc. so we can't use that to check the "fairness" of the underwriting.

    There does seem to be a clear split between studies not finding discrimination looking at default, expected loss, etc. and studies finding discrimination ignoring variables like FICO score (Steve's post) or net worth (the paper above).

    Given the racial differences in average net worth that seems like an important omission.

    I also wonder about how much of the effect they observe is due to differing levels of financial savviness rather than race. I am pretty sure most lenders would be happy to sell a more expensive loan to anyone if they could.

    I share your assessments.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  222. @Reg Cæsar

    Ever hear of the Werther Effect?
     
    I think of it every time I see one of those candies.

    http://www.groovycandies.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/650x/040ec09b1e35df139433887a97daa66f/w/e/werthers-sugar-free-minis.jpg

    Ayds wasn't immune to unfortunate homophones, and disappeared. But no one in this country reads Goethe, so Werther's is safe.


    https://www.oddee.com/wp-content/uploads/_media/imgs/articles2/a96682_ayds.jpg

    Oh my god thank you for this.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  223. You want to see if a certain group is discriminated against unfairly? It’s dead easy.

    Look at its default rate.

    If the group’s default rate is lower than the average of all groups, it’s being discriminated against, because the lender is cherry-picking the least risky members. It’s holding them to higher standards than the rest of the groups, and turning away members who otherwise would qualify.

    If the default rate is the same, no discrimination. End of story.

    If, on the other hand, the default rate is higher, there’s discrimination in favor of the group, at the expense of the majority. This is in fact part of the reason for the great bust of 2008: lots of loans handed out to people who couldn’t repay them, many because the lender was trying to meet unrealistic goals for minority participation.

    That’s the thing about lending. Whatever standards you use are directly reflected in your default rates. It’s the kind of thing you can’t cover up or explain away.

    Read More
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  224. By the way, if blacks and browns are People of Color, but whites and Asians are not, then what color are Asians?

    Invisible color?

    People of Pallor :)

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter Display All Comments
  225. @Triumph104

    One major factor is likely racism
     
    No. The major factors are:

    1. Blacks with good paying jobs are often delinquent on loans. Pricewaterhousecoopers recently started paying $100 a month directly towards their employee's student loans because so many of their minority employees were delinquent. These delinquencies were making it difficult for Pwc to retain or promote the employees. The New York Times did a story on "affluent" married college educated blacks in Milwaukee that still lived in the ghetto and struggled with housing related debt.

    2. A degree from a for-profit school has less value in the marketplace than a degree from a non-profit.

    3. Blacks have poor social networks and are less likely to find jobs through friends and relatives than whites. For-profits attract poorer, less connected people and are a terrible place to network.

    These delinquencies were making it difficult for Pwc to retain or promote the employees.

    This seems like a non sequitur.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments

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