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As part of Ted Kennedy’s not very successful efforts to import more Irishmen to vote for Kennedys, America has had since the 1990s a diversity visa lottery that lets in 50,000 lucky winners per year from obscure countries that don’t send all that many immigrants through other channels. It establishes beachheads for, say, Nepalese who can then launch the chain migration process. From Pew Research Center:

Applications for U.S. visa lottery more than doubled since 2007

MARCH 24, 2017

… During the application period for fiscal year 2017, about 19 million people applied for the U.S. diversity visa program, otherwise known as the visa lottery. That’s more than twice as many as the 9 million who applied a decade ago, according to a Pew Research Center analysis of U.S. State Department data. During the same period, the number of visas issued to the principal applicants, spouses and children via the lottery has remained stable at about 50,000 per year (due to an annual ceiling set by Congress), or a little more than 500,000 since 2007.

How many Ivy League professors would show up to testify to Congress that letting people in at random is Who We Are?

In operation since 1995, the visa lottery seeks to diversify the U.S. immigrant population by granting visas to underrepresented nations. Citizens of countries with the most legal immigrant arrivals in recent years – such as Mexico, Canada, China and India – are not eligible to apply. …

If selected for a diversity visa, however, individuals must provide detailed background information and submit to visa interviews, security checks and health screenings and pay $330. Upon entry into the U.S., diversity visa recipients are given lawful permanent residence status, which gives them permission to work and live permanently in the U.S.

The U.S. visa lottery program is unique in the world.

Thanks, Ted!

(New Zealand has a similar program, but it is smaller in scale and only open to neighboring countries in Oceania.) Immigration programs in many other countries prioritize skills, family relationships or humanitarian need.

Whereas America prioritizes randomness.

… In fiscal 2015 (the most recent year for detailed data on application countries), about 12% of the 14.4 million people who applied for the visa lottery were citizens of Ghana (1.7 million).

Ghana had a population of 15 million in 1990, but that’s up to 27 million in 2015. The UN projects Ghana’s population at 50 million in 2050 and 73 million in 2100. So, when it comes to Ghanians, there will be Lots More Where Those Came From.

An additional 10%, or nearly 1.4 million applicants, were from Uzbekistan.

Wasn’t an Uzbek immigrant in the news recently?

Other top application countries included Ukraine (nearly 1.3 million applicants), Iran (more than 900,000) and Nepal (nearly 900,000). Numbers include principal applicants, their spouses and their children.

In some countries, a marked share of the population has applied for the program. In the Republic of Congo, for example, 10% of the country’s citizens applied for the program in fiscal 2015.

The Republic of Congo is Little Congo. The UN projects it will have only 20 million people by the end of the century, versus 357 million next door in the Democratic Republic of the Congo (formerly Zaire), or Big Congo.

Other African countries with high shares of applicants included Liberia (8%), Sierra Leone (8%) and Ghana (7%). European countries such as Albania (7%), Moldova (5%) and Ukraine (3%) also saw substantial shares of their populations submitting applications. In Asia, Uzbekistan (5%) and Nepal (3%) also had vast shares of their populations apply.

 
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  1. Anon says: • Disclaimer

    In fiscal 2015 (the most recent year for detailed data on application countries), about 12% of the 14.4 million people who applied for the visa lottery were citizens of Ghana (1.7 million).

    So under open borders more than a million people would come from Ghana almost instantly? For people like Bryan Caplan this is the feature, not the bug of open borders.

    btw, have y’all seen this one over at AmRen, here’s the author bio:

    The author is a well-known public intellectual who has been published and interviewed countless times in America’s most prestigious mainstream media. She feels she cannot be honest publicly about the issues discussed here.

    https://www.amren.com/features/2017/04/how-i-became-conservative-schools-iq/

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anon 2
    I also recommend "Notes from a White Country" (i.e., Poland)
    Parts 1 and 2, on amren.com
    , @Wilkey
    "So under open borders more than a million people would come from Ghana almost instantly? For people like Bryan Caplan this is the feature, not the bug of open borders."

    No, far more than that. That number is the number of Ghanians who filled out the paperwork and paid whatever fees for what was, in both name and fact, a lottery ticket with a 1 in 400 chance of winning. How many millions more Ghanians would buy plane tickets to America if their odds of immigrating here were effectively 100%? Perhaps all of them. And Ghana has routinely been held up as one of the better countries in Africa.
    , @Ryan Andrews


    The author is a well-known public intellectual who has been published and interviewed countless times in America’s most prestigious mainstream media. She feels she cannot be honest publicly about the issues discussed here.

    https://www.amren.com/features/2017/04/how-i-became-conservative-schools-iq/
     
    Good on her for speaking out, I guess, but these 'scales-falling-from-my-eyes-on-racial-differences' stories always sound kinda phony to me. Maybe the behavior of these kids was exactly as she claims. But what I don't find at all credible is that the idea of innate racial intellectual differences never even crossed her mind until a series of harrowing encounters with vibrant youths. If you live in any decent-sized American metro area, and aren't a complete dullard, this is something you pick up on just by living your life. Steve has made this point in the past, I think.

    I'm sure a lot of Leftists (and others) do honestly believe in the 100% nurture-over-nature theory, but that doesn't mean that, in their heart-of-hearts, they've closed off any possibility that they could be wrong.
    , @Ed
    That's undercounting. That's only the people that could afford the application fees.
    , @Seth Largo
    Amy Chua?
    , @Frau Katze
    How many people are there out there like her? I've always suspected the number is not insignificant.

    My own awakening was different. I was from an (old-fashioned) leftist family.

    But I had no time to think about politics for many years: working full time and single-parenting. By 9/11 the kids were off on their own.

    I was shocked by 9/11. I started reading about Islam, and reading on the internet.

    In no time at all I found that the conventional leftists were crazy.

    It was all America's fault, etc, etc. I wrote them off almost immediately.

    Eventually I branched out and read The Blank Slate. Without 9/11 would I still be an ignoramus about so many things?
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  2. Anon7 says:

    Why is President Trump wasting our time? Immigration, immigration, immigration. Fix it, which in my case means everyone not a citizen has to leave, no legal immigration unless some overwhelming advantage can be cited on a case-by-case basis and suitable border security.

    Tick tock, Mr. Trump. You want another term, that’s what you need to do.

    Read More
    • Agree: Opinionator
    • Replies: @Amasius
    Brother, it's over. I'm telling you now so you don't get really mad when Trump pushes through amnesty and an increase in immigration. Only "racists" and "deplorables" want to reduce immigration; not his new neocon friends, not anyone with a lot of money. Only "racists" and "deplorables" want to do anything about the 40 million illegal squatters in this country. There is no incentive to passing a restrictionist immigration bill, so it's not going to happen; the opposite will be happening.

    https://ftalphaville.ft.com/2017/04/07/2187127/trump-appoints-pro-immigration-free-trader-as-cea-chair/
    , @fitzGetty
    ... and instant deportation after a crime is committed ... instant ...
    , @Olorin
    You're so right!

    70 days as President, and he hasn't done everything yet!

    He must be a vast failure!

    Maybe on day 100 he can order CDC to cure the electorate's pandemic of Verucasaltitis.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TRTkCHE1sS4
  3. Daniel H says:

    The original intent of this program was to explicitly give preference to Irish and other under represented European nationalities that make up the majority of the US genetic stock, and had been the main stream of immigration prior to 1965. But, you guessed it, Chuck Schumer objected, saying that that would be racist, to single out Europeans for preference, so the requirements of the program were changed, explicitly disavowing nationality and emphasizing all sorts of qualities and requirements, among which were proficiency in English. Presumably this would qualify lots of Irish because they speak English. Well, so do lots of Bangladeshis, Nigerians, Ghanians, etc, and there are 100s of million more of them than Irishman. So Kennedy got very few of his Irishman, but Schumer got his Bangladeshis, Nigerians and others of the now and future coalition of the aggrieved. And in the long view, I don’t think that Kennedy was to upset with this.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Dr. X

    So Kennedy got very few of his Irishman, but Schumer got his Bangladeshis, Nigerians and others of the now and future coalition of the aggrieved. And in the long view, I don’t think that Kennedy was to upset with this.
     
    Of course not. None of them moved to Hyannisport and put up a minaret with calls to prayer next to the Kennedy estate. And none of them set off bombs or committed any rapes on Martha's Vineyard, either.
    , @Wilkey
    "So Kennedy got very few of his Irishman, but Schumer got his Bangladeshis, Nigerians and others of the now and future coalition of the aggrieved. And in the long view, I don’t think that Kennedy was to upset with this."

    Did Dead Kennedy ever once apologize for the fact that all of the immigration bills he pushed for - the visa lottery, the 1965 bill, and the 1986 amnesty - failed to live up to what he claimed they would do? Not so far as I can remember.

    One could chalk this up to the usual arrogant pride of politicians, who almost never admit or accept blame for any of their mistakes, but in Kennedy's case he kept doubling down on his "failed" policies. He was pushing for more of the same right up until the day he died.
    , @anonymous
    So Kennedy gets all the blame again for another immigration act in wich others actually put in the poison.
    , @George
    Schumer/McCain tried to correct it by extending Australian E-3 visas to Irish.

    Top ten facts you need to know about the E3 Schumer visas for Irish

    http://www.irishcentral.com/news/top-ten-facts-you-need-to-know-about-the-e3-schumer-visas-for-irish-208986091-237592091

    The E3 initiative was first proposed for Ireland by the Irish Lobby for Immigration Reform after the failure of Kennedy/McCain immigration bill.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E-3_visa

    Fwiw the visa lottery probably reduces corruption and expense associated with government schemes.

    One reason for the lottery format, they loved lotteries in the 60s
    What’s Your Number? The Vietnam War Selective Service Lottery
    http://www.historynet.com/whats-your-number.htm
  4. I actually don’t have a problem with this, as long as it’s limited. Serves as a natural experiment in many ways.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Opinionator
    Go "natural experiment" on your own future.
    , @PiltdownMan

    I actually don’t have a problem with this, as long as it’s limited.
     
    I'm not sure whether this program satisfies your notion of a "limited" natural experiment.

    About 500,000 lottery winners are granted visas every 10 years, or about an even million in 20 years. Using a chain migration multiplier of 4.5x (based on a 1996-2000 data in a National Institutes of Health paper), that's about 5 million immigrants who will have gotten in by lottery from the years 2000 to 2020. It is reasonable to suspect that multipliers for immigration lottery winners might behigher.

    This is not a small scale experiment.


    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3884518/

    https://travel.state.gov/content/dam/visas/Statistics/AnnualReports/FY2014AnnualReport/FY14AnnualReport-TableVII.pdf
    , @bomag

    Serves as a natural experiment in many ways.
     
    And if this experiment fails, will there be anyone around to announce that result? Will there be a window to which we can go and get our money back?
    , @Opinionator
    History and biology have already shown us how this experiment ends. And it is not favorable to the continuity of the native species.
    , @Drapetomaniac
    Certainly. An experiment in genetic devolution.
  5. Bleuteaux says:

    You ever hear any stories about the gratitude of the Nepalese people? They’ll probably teach us to levitate!

    Read More
    • Replies: @Expletive Deleted
    It would be prudent to keep as many Ghurkas on the Deplorable side as can be mustered. Dashed handy little chaps in a tight spot, and none too keen on being lumbered with prisoners either. Also can be implicitly trusted to keep their oaths, almost alone among orientals (apart from Japs).
    Remember to lace your boots Limey-style.
  6. Dr. X says:
    @Daniel H
    The original intent of this program was to explicitly give preference to Irish and other under represented European nationalities that make up the majority of the US genetic stock, and had been the main stream of immigration prior to 1965. But, you guessed it, Chuck Schumer objected, saying that that would be racist, to single out Europeans for preference, so the requirements of the program were changed, explicitly disavowing nationality and emphasizing all sorts of qualities and requirements, among which were proficiency in English. Presumably this would qualify lots of Irish because they speak English. Well, so do lots of Bangladeshis, Nigerians, Ghanians, etc, and there are 100s of million more of them than Irishman. So Kennedy got very few of his Irishman, but Schumer got his Bangladeshis, Nigerians and others of the now and future coalition of the aggrieved. And in the long view, I don't think that Kennedy was to upset with this.

    So Kennedy got very few of his Irishman, but Schumer got his Bangladeshis, Nigerians and others of the now and future coalition of the aggrieved. And in the long view, I don’t think that Kennedy was to upset with this.

    Of course not. None of them moved to Hyannisport and put up a minaret with calls to prayer next to the Kennedy estate. And none of them set off bombs or committed any rapes on Martha’s Vineyard, either.

    Read More
    • Agree: Frau Katze
    • Replies: @Njguy73

    committed any rapes on Martha’s Vineyard, either.
     
    That's one job the Kennedys can definitely do for themselves.
    , @anonymous
    "...or committed any rapes on Martha’s Vineyard, either."

    Other than Teddy Kennedy?
  7. Daniel H says:

    OT: “US admiral says Russian activity in the Mediterranean and other European seas is higher than at any time during the Cold War – and warns NATO not to be ‘split and distracted’ by Putin’s schemes”

    Photo of said Admiral

    Read More
    • Replies: @5371
    The picture is a lot scarier than the guff uttered.
    , @Diversity Heretic
    Chester Nimitz or Raymond Spruance she ain't!
    , @Lugash
    If you took her out of uniform you'd easily mistake her for an assistant principal. No one would make that mistake with Bull Halsey.

    Of course, Mike Mullen looks like an accountant.
    , @Sue D. Nim
    All those decorations - she must be very brave!
  8. Dr. X says:

    During the application period for fiscal year 2017, about 19 million people applied for the U.S. diversity visa program…

    The U.S. actually has a “diversity visa” program? That’s so absurd it sounds almost like a parody of what some leftist dweeb in some university sociology department would want.

    The fat that’s it’s for real is, quite frankly, frightening…

    Read More
  9. TGGP says: • Website

    A lot of the immigrants I’ve known have been Brahmins who came in on student visas or something like that. One south asian who didn’t had his family come in on a diversity visa when he was a kid. As a result he had to support his parents at a young age rather than the other way around, and it’s not like he was flush with cash either.

    Read More
  10. @E. Harding
    I actually don't have a problem with this, as long as it's limited. Serves as a natural experiment in many ways.

    Go “natural experiment” on your own future.

    Read More
  11. Njguy73 says:
    @Dr. X

    So Kennedy got very few of his Irishman, but Schumer got his Bangladeshis, Nigerians and others of the now and future coalition of the aggrieved. And in the long view, I don’t think that Kennedy was to upset with this.
     
    Of course not. None of them moved to Hyannisport and put up a minaret with calls to prayer next to the Kennedy estate. And none of them set off bombs or committed any rapes on Martha's Vineyard, either.

    committed any rapes on Martha’s Vineyard, either.

    That’s one job the Kennedys can definitely do for themselves.

    Read More
  12. eah says:

    I only recently saw the 2013 film ‘Captain Phillips’ — watching a bit of the extra material on the DVD, it seems one of pirates was played by a Somali who won an immigrant visa in the DVL while living in Yemen (as I recall).

    Read More
  13. Short of the US turning into feudal Japan, the green card visa lottery is an excellent program. Obviously people living in hell holes are going to be the most likely to apply, but the US screens them for high school education or work experience that requires two years of education. Less than 1% of applicants world-wide are accepted.

    A poster’s daughter married a guy from Romania who had won the visa lottery. Stefan Stoykov came to the US from Bulgaria at the age of eight when his parents won the visa lottery — 10 years later he was accepted into all eight Ivy League colleges.

    Russia is even considering its own visa lottery.

    https://www.rt.com/politics/370236-lawmakers-propose-free-lottery-with/

    Read More
    • Replies: @DPG
    Because people with a high school education have been doing so well the last few decades, right?

    Your evidence for the success of the program consists of one anecdote.
    , @Diversity Heretic
    I'm more and more attracted by feudal Japan, and certainly by modern Japan's immigration policy. Why does the U.S. need any more people at all!? What skills do they bring that could not be developed indigenously? What young person from heritage America in Des Moines or Lincoln didn't go to an Ivy League college because some G-d d-amned Bulgarian, whose ancestors did absolutely nothing to build the United States, is there? Does anyone seriously believe that this product of the Balkans (not worth the bones of a single Pomeranian grenadier, according to Otto von Bismarck) is so all-fired special not he is deserving of acceptance by all eight Ivy League colleges.

    I am so sick of this Cult of Immigrant Worship! The U.S. woud have been better off, and would be better off today, if the 19th Century Know Nothing program of immigration restriction had been adopted.
    , @Reg Cæsar

    A poster’s daughter married a guy from Romania who had won the visa lottery.
     
    Does that make her a poster child?
    , @Opinionator

    A poster’s daughter married a guy from Romania who had won the visa lottery.
     
    Leaving an American man out in the cold.

    Stefan Stoykov came to the US from Bulgaria at the age of eight when his parents won the visa lottery — 10 years later he was accepted into all eight Ivy League colleges.
     
    Taking a seat away from an American kid.

    The green card lottery is bad for Americans.
  14. Anon 2 says:
    @Anon

    In fiscal 2015 (the most recent year for detailed data on application countries), about 12% of the 14.4 million people who applied for the visa lottery were citizens of Ghana (1.7 million).
     
    So under open borders more than a million people would come from Ghana almost instantly? For people like Bryan Caplan this is the feature, not the bug of open borders.



    btw, have y'all seen this one over at AmRen, here's the author bio:


    The author is a well-known public intellectual who has been published and interviewed countless times in America’s most prestigious mainstream media. She feels she cannot be honest publicly about the issues discussed here.

    https://www.amren.com/features/2017/04/how-i-became-conservative-schools-iq/
     

    I also recommend “Notes from a White Country” (i.e., Poland)
    Parts 1 and 2, on amren.com

    Read More
    • Replies: @Frau Katze
    Thanks for the tip. Part 1 is here,

    https://www.amren.com/commentary/2017/03/poland-white-country-homogeneity/

    Meanwhile, from a Financial Times newsletter:

    Jan-Werner Müller: Viktor Orban is Europe’s enemy within.

    Hungary receives subsidies from Brussels, yet disregards the rules of the EU club
     
  15. Completely unhinged anti-Wall Editorial in today’s New York Times.

    Do you realize that a wall would trap millions of unauthorized immigrants in the United States?

    https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/08/opinion/up-against-the-wall.html?_r=0

    Read More
    • Replies: @Alec Leamas
    Apparently they conceive of the wall as a crab trap.
    , @Mike Sylwester
    Now we're supposed to call them unauthorized immigrants?

    The correct, legal term is illegal aliens.
  16. I dunno- Niven’s Ringworld introduced the idea that sheer luck was in fact genetic, and could be systematically bred in order to make a very lucky person.

    More seriously, I wonder what sort of structures and personalities exist in Ghana, Uzbekistan, Little Congo etc that promote lotto participation.

    Also, if it’s a lottery, why aren’t they paying the 330$ first?

    I would mostly tolerate a system that estimates the total lifetime cost risk/labor replacement cost of an immigrant (and anyone they drag along) in a particular pool, collect 10x that from the pool, and select an individual from that pool. Sorry if I haven’t phrased that in a coherent way.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Critical Eye
    Lol, came here to make the same Ringworld reference. So instead of selecting for education, valuable skills, or other proxies for intelligence, we're selecting for luck? Perhaps by advising applicants to pray really, really hard, we can determine which God answers prayers best?
  17. DPG says:

    I worked with a Ghanaian. Nice guy, but dumb as a box of rocks. Dumbest guy in the dept. We don’t need them.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Ed
    My parents came from Ghana in the 70s. They're not dumb as rocks and neither am I. So we'll cancel out your co-worker.

    Now I'm not arrogant or silly enough to say the USA needs Ghanaians but we are not a problem. Heck if it wasn't for black immigrants the already woeful statistics for African-Americans would be significantly worse.
  18. JW Bell says:

    I’ve a friend from Ukraine whose family got in on the lottery. He works as an RN here. It’s a bizarre program.

    Read More
  19. Okay, so there’s a “diversity lottery” for 50,000 diverse applicants. But is there some ceiling on immigrants coming to the U.S. by other means, i.e. not even trying to win the diversity lottery, but coming as students, as workers with green cards or temporary visas, through marriage, etc.? What total numbers are we talking about here?

    Read More
  20. A poster’s daughter married a guy from Romania who had won the visa lottery.

    Leaving an American man out in the cold.

    Stefan Stoykov came to the US from Bulgaria at the age of eight when his parents won the visa lottery — 10 years later he was accepted into all eight Ivy League colleges.

    Taking a seat away from an American kid.

    The green card lottery is bad for Americans.

    Read More
  21. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer

    Trump’s will fix very little that is wrong about our immigration system. He just appointed an Obama crook to head Border Patrol. He just nominated an open borders neocon to head his Council of Economic Advisors.

    The Wall is for suckers. It will take many years and end up piecemeal. Later presidents will undermine it completely. Winning!

    All he has to do is workplace enforcement. But Trump didn’t talk about that at his rallies. Because it would send all illegals home!

    Mexican peso has recovered btw because speculators now understand that the number of deportations will be tiny and the Uniparty status quo is here to stay…

    Read More
    • Replies: @Buck Turgidson
    Maybe there is all kinds of behind-the-scenes action taking place, but I am mighty unimpressed with Trump's apparently only tepid action in addressing the immigration tsunami drowning our nation. I hear that some border crossings are down, I hear there have been some deportations. If I have a leaky roof, that is like learning the forecast for 2" a rain a day for the next week is now for 1.9" a day for the next week. Kind of hard to tell in my neighborhood or my doctor's office, we are still drowning in Latin America norte and everything else.

    We have a zillion H-1B, H-2B, diversity, double secret reverse probation, refugee ad nauseum programs for allowing more more more people into the nation, and just futzing around the edges won't do a damned thing to give us real relief. If Trump wants to show that he is behind the American people and can take the heat and make tough decisions, how about pushing for a moratorium on immigration? What is he waiting for? One of these days he is going to have been in office for 6 months and won't have a damned thing to show for it on immigration policy. I voted for him and sent him $$ and I feel like I have been ripped off. The Syria missile nonsense last week took the cake. Shooting missiles into Syria is not going to do one damned thing to bring back jobs or get immigration under control. How about stopping immigration and getting the jobs machine rolling FIRST, then going off and playing war games. Isn't that what we were told was going to happen? I ain't voting for Trump again at this rate, might as well vote for Luis Gutierrez and have it out. Trump has done some good things but he increasingly is looking like the same old same old bushclintonobama.
    , @Mokiki
    Israel has built a migrant proof fence for a mere 1.8 million bucks per mile along its entire Sinai border. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel%E2%80%93Egypt_barrier
  22. Wilkey says:
    @Anon

    In fiscal 2015 (the most recent year for detailed data on application countries), about 12% of the 14.4 million people who applied for the visa lottery were citizens of Ghana (1.7 million).
     
    So under open borders more than a million people would come from Ghana almost instantly? For people like Bryan Caplan this is the feature, not the bug of open borders.



    btw, have y'all seen this one over at AmRen, here's the author bio:


    The author is a well-known public intellectual who has been published and interviewed countless times in America’s most prestigious mainstream media. She feels she cannot be honest publicly about the issues discussed here.

    https://www.amren.com/features/2017/04/how-i-became-conservative-schools-iq/
     

    “So under open borders more than a million people would come from Ghana almost instantly? For people like Bryan Caplan this is the feature, not the bug of open borders.”

    No, far more than that. That number is the number of Ghanians who filled out the paperwork and paid whatever fees for what was, in both name and fact, a lottery ticket with a 1 in 400 chance of winning. How many millions more Ghanians would buy plane tickets to America if their odds of immigrating here were effectively 100%? Perhaps all of them. And Ghana has routinely been held up as one of the better countries in Africa.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Chrisnonymous
    That's interesting. If I remember correctly, in the debate Unz had with Bryan Caplan, the figure 30 million in the first year under open borders was bandied about and nobody contested it. However, perhaps it would be even higher. The debate was over "let anyone take a job anywhere," so maybe the figure referred to workers who would take jobs in the US, not the entire population of people who would come.
  23. @Anon

    In fiscal 2015 (the most recent year for detailed data on application countries), about 12% of the 14.4 million people who applied for the visa lottery were citizens of Ghana (1.7 million).
     
    So under open borders more than a million people would come from Ghana almost instantly? For people like Bryan Caplan this is the feature, not the bug of open borders.



    btw, have y'all seen this one over at AmRen, here's the author bio:


    The author is a well-known public intellectual who has been published and interviewed countless times in America’s most prestigious mainstream media. She feels she cannot be honest publicly about the issues discussed here.

    https://www.amren.com/features/2017/04/how-i-became-conservative-schools-iq/
     

    The author is a well-known public intellectual who has been published and interviewed countless times in America’s most prestigious mainstream media. She feels she cannot be honest publicly about the issues discussed here.

    https://www.amren.com/features/2017/04/how-i-became-conservative-schools-iq/

    Good on her for speaking out, I guess, but these ‘scales-falling-from-my-eyes-on-racial-differences’ stories always sound kinda phony to me. Maybe the behavior of these kids was exactly as she claims. But what I don’t find at all credible is that the idea of innate racial intellectual differences never even crossed her mind until a series of harrowing encounters with vibrant youths. If you live in any decent-sized American metro area, and aren’t a complete dullard, this is something you pick up on just by living your life. Steve has made this point in the past, I think.

    I’m sure a lot of Leftists (and others) do honestly believe in the 100% nurture-over-nature theory, but that doesn’t mean that, in their heart-of-hearts, they’ve closed off any possibility that they could be wrong.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Intelligent Dasein

    But what I don’t find at all credible is that the idea of innate racial intellectual differences never even crossed her mind until a series of harrowing encounters with vibrant youths.
     
    I don't think most people are capable of blunt honesty. They don't have the fortitude to simply say "This is what I see, think, or believe." Therefore they have to dress up their statements in these sorts of pseudo-dramatic narratives. By making themselves out to be the passive subject of experiences, they avoid taking full responsibility for the truth they are reporting.

    I find this kind of thing personally irritating, but it's far too common a human failing to ever be eradicated, and it's foolish to even try. We have to remember that even on "our side," the vast majority of people will simply be followers, not leaders.

    Hitherto the Alt-Right has consisted almost exclusively of disaffected leader-types, unhorsed knights, exiled nobles, and would-be commanders. We should take it as a positive sign that we are finally attracting some normal followers into our movement. It means we're no longer that far out on the fringe.
    , @Harry Baldwin
    I don't think the author's ‘scales-falling-from-my-eyes-on-racial-differences’ story sounds phony, because I went through a similar process. Living in NYC for a few years while attending college in the 1970s, I came to realize that blacks were more violent and crime-prone; however, I was in my late 30s before I really accepted that blacks are on average less intelligent. This realization came after reading some of the books on the subject that preceded The Bell Curve, such as America's Bimodal Crisis: Black Intelligence in White Society (1985) and A Question of Intelligence: The IQ Debate in America (1992). The facts about black intelligence were still largely taboo: Bob Grant, the sharp-tongued NYC talk radio host who was startlingly blunt about race problems always steered clear of it, as did Jared Taylor in Paved With Good Intentions (1992). Ann Coulter still won't go there, falling back on the "children raised without fathers" explanation for black dysfunction.

    Lawrence Auster describes a similarly slow evolution of his views on black intelligence here: http://www.amnation.com/vfr/archives/001132.html
    , @ben tillman

    I’m sure a lot of Leftists (and others) do honestly believe in the 100% nurture-over-nature theory
     
    I'm not sure at all. I've never heard anyone talk that way about their own family members.
  24. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer

    http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2017/04/09/donald-trump-economic-adviser-pro-immigration-pro-outsourcing/

    President Donald Trump has picked an economic advisor who believes in growing the nation’s economy by importing workers and consumers, and by expanding free-trade outsourcing, despite Trump’s “buy  American, hire American” campaign promises.

    Funny how this keeps happening! What sort of 4d chess theory can explain it?

    How about: Donald Trump is the biggest political liar of them all.

    Read More
  25. Wilkey says:
    @Daniel H
    The original intent of this program was to explicitly give preference to Irish and other under represented European nationalities that make up the majority of the US genetic stock, and had been the main stream of immigration prior to 1965. But, you guessed it, Chuck Schumer objected, saying that that would be racist, to single out Europeans for preference, so the requirements of the program were changed, explicitly disavowing nationality and emphasizing all sorts of qualities and requirements, among which were proficiency in English. Presumably this would qualify lots of Irish because they speak English. Well, so do lots of Bangladeshis, Nigerians, Ghanians, etc, and there are 100s of million more of them than Irishman. So Kennedy got very few of his Irishman, but Schumer got his Bangladeshis, Nigerians and others of the now and future coalition of the aggrieved. And in the long view, I don't think that Kennedy was to upset with this.

    “So Kennedy got very few of his Irishman, but Schumer got his Bangladeshis, Nigerians and others of the now and future coalition of the aggrieved. And in the long view, I don’t think that Kennedy was to upset with this.”

    Did Dead Kennedy ever once apologize for the fact that all of the immigration bills he pushed for – the visa lottery, the 1965 bill, and the 1986 amnesty – failed to live up to what he claimed they would do? Not so far as I can remember.

    One could chalk this up to the usual arrogant pride of politicians, who almost never admit or accept blame for any of their mistakes, but in Kennedy’s case he kept doubling down on his “failed” policies. He was pushing for more of the same right up until the day he died.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Daniel H
    One could safely assume that Ted Kennedy (and others of his clan, not all of them) actually hated America and Americans. Exhibit No. 1 of the perpetually aggrieved.
    , @E. Rekshun
    Did Dead Kennedy ever once apologize for the fact that all of the immigration bills he pushed for

    And an immigrant blew a hole in the head of Kennedy's brother in 1968.
  26. The Republic of Congo is Little Congo…

    …the Democratic Republic of the Congo (formerly Zaire), or Big Congo.

    I prefer “French Congo” and “Belgian Congo”.

    …a diversity visa lottery that lets in 50,000 lucky winners per year from obscure countries that don’t send all that many immigrants through other channels.

    Ah, but the diversity lottery might have been good, had it been combined with a cap on all immigrants. That way there’d be fewer Mexicans, Chinese, Indians, and whatever’s next after those behemoths. (We could always make a sentimental exception for Pilipinos. They’d have a separate cap.)

    A true diversity lottery combined with a cap might not be ideal, but it would greatly retard the rising tide of color’s ability to unite against us.

    Minneapolis-St Paul is about as white a metro area as Cincinnati, but the latter has one minority, and thus sees riots whenever anything goes wrong. The Twin Cities minority is split among several kinds of blacks, several kinds of Asians, several kinds of Indians– i.e., several kinds of feathers and several kinds of dots. And yes, Hispanics, but they’re split everywhere else, too.

    All we see here is the occasional wimpy protest march, usually with more whites than everyone else combined.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Dan Hayes
    Reg Caesar:

    Are your area's occasional wimpy protest marches led by its best-known bleeding heart liberal, Garrison Keillor?
    , @biz
    Actually, there should be some fascinating sociology studying the differences between MSP and Cincinnati. Both are midwestern metro areas with roughly similar populations (although MSP is somewhat larger), but the differences in economic and cultural power, and demographic makeup, are enormous.

    MSP has a large number of Fortune 500 companies, a big R&D sector, and is actually an employment destination for young Americans. Culturally, it occupies a position in the American mind (largely thanks to Garrison Keillor, I suppose) that Cincinnati does not. Most Americans know nothing about Cincinnati, and their only experience with it is usually wondering why they are passing through the Cleveland Airport and why is it in Kentucky? Demographically, MSP is notoriously a destination for exotic arrivals such as Hmong, Somalis, Eritreans, and all sorts of others. Whereas Cincinnati is probably the most lagging metro in the country in terms of demographics, basically consisting of only whites and indigenous* blacks, with a sprinkling of suburban, assimilated East Asians and Brahmins to fill the professions.

    So why are these places so different? Cincinnati was settled by Appalachians and Germans, and MSP was settled by Germans, Irish, and Scandinavians. MSP is the only large city for several states on either side, whereas Cincinnati is not. MSP has a large, prominent university and Cincinnati does not. I'm sure other factors could be considered as well.

    * for lack of a better descriptor.
  27. DPG says:
    @Triumph104
    Short of the US turning into feudal Japan, the green card visa lottery is an excellent program. Obviously people living in hell holes are going to be the most likely to apply, but the US screens them for high school education or work experience that requires two years of education. Less than 1% of applicants world-wide are accepted.

    A poster's daughter married a guy from Romania who had won the visa lottery. Stefan Stoykov came to the US from Bulgaria at the age of eight when his parents won the visa lottery -- 10 years later he was accepted into all eight Ivy League colleges.

    Russia is even considering its own visa lottery.

    https://www.rt.com/politics/370236-lawmakers-propose-free-lottery-with/

    Because people with a high school education have been doing so well the last few decades, right?

    Your evidence for the success of the program consists of one anecdote.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Triumph104
    I gave more than one anecdote as opposed to the zero you give to back up your position. You are so ignorant about the world that you think it is easy for someone from a third world country to get a high school education or relevant job skills. Smug and ignorant.
  28. 5371 says:
    @Daniel H
    OT: "US admiral says Russian activity in the Mediterranean and other European seas is higher than at any time during the Cold War - and warns NATO not to be 'split and distracted' by Putin's schemes"

    Photo of said Admiral

    http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2017/04/09/18/3F1B849200000578-4395398-image-a-6_1491759046006.jpg

    The picture is a lot scarier than the guff uttered.

    Read More
  29. @Wilkey
    "So under open borders more than a million people would come from Ghana almost instantly? For people like Bryan Caplan this is the feature, not the bug of open borders."

    No, far more than that. That number is the number of Ghanians who filled out the paperwork and paid whatever fees for what was, in both name and fact, a lottery ticket with a 1 in 400 chance of winning. How many millions more Ghanians would buy plane tickets to America if their odds of immigrating here were effectively 100%? Perhaps all of them. And Ghana has routinely been held up as one of the better countries in Africa.

    That’s interesting. If I remember correctly, in the debate Unz had with Bryan Caplan, the figure 30 million in the first year under open borders was bandied about and nobody contested it. However, perhaps it would be even higher. The debate was over “let anyone take a job anywhere,” so maybe the figure referred to workers who would take jobs in the US, not the entire population of people who would come.

    Read More
  30. @E. Harding
    I actually don't have a problem with this, as long as it's limited. Serves as a natural experiment in many ways.

    I actually don’t have a problem with this, as long as it’s limited.

    I’m not sure whether this program satisfies your notion of a “limited” natural experiment.

    About 500,000 lottery winners are granted visas every 10 years, or about an even million in 20 years. Using a chain migration multiplier of 4.5x (based on a 1996-2000 data in a National Institutes of Health paper), that’s about 5 million immigrants who will have gotten in by lottery from the years 2000 to 2020. It is reasonable to suspect that multipliers for immigration lottery winners might behigher.

    This is not a small scale experiment.

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3884518/

    https://travel.state.gov/content/dam/visas/Statistics/AnnualReports/FY2014AnnualReport/FY14AnnualReport-TableVII.pdf

    Read More
    • Replies: @Opinionator
    About 500,000 lottery winners are granted visas every 10 years, or about an even million in 20 years.

    Isn't that about the same number of slaves who were imported into the United States?
    , @TheJester
    Exactly, the threat in all of these immigration schemes is family unification. The increase is expotential and quickly out of control.

    Better. If people are allowed to immigrate, make it clear that none of their relatives can follow them.
  31. @PiltdownMan

    I actually don’t have a problem with this, as long as it’s limited.
     
    I'm not sure whether this program satisfies your notion of a "limited" natural experiment.

    About 500,000 lottery winners are granted visas every 10 years, or about an even million in 20 years. Using a chain migration multiplier of 4.5x (based on a 1996-2000 data in a National Institutes of Health paper), that's about 5 million immigrants who will have gotten in by lottery from the years 2000 to 2020. It is reasonable to suspect that multipliers for immigration lottery winners might behigher.

    This is not a small scale experiment.


    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3884518/

    https://travel.state.gov/content/dam/visas/Statistics/AnnualReports/FY2014AnnualReport/FY14AnnualReport-TableVII.pdf

    About 500,000 lottery winners are granted visas every 10 years, or about an even million in 20 years.

    Isn’t that about the same number of slaves who were imported into the United States?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Opinionator
    It is said that total number of slaves imported into the United States numbered no more than 450,000 people, with 390,000 of them coming directly from Africa and the remainder from elsewhere in the Americas.
  32. anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @Daniel H
    The original intent of this program was to explicitly give preference to Irish and other under represented European nationalities that make up the majority of the US genetic stock, and had been the main stream of immigration prior to 1965. But, you guessed it, Chuck Schumer objected, saying that that would be racist, to single out Europeans for preference, so the requirements of the program were changed, explicitly disavowing nationality and emphasizing all sorts of qualities and requirements, among which were proficiency in English. Presumably this would qualify lots of Irish because they speak English. Well, so do lots of Bangladeshis, Nigerians, Ghanians, etc, and there are 100s of million more of them than Irishman. So Kennedy got very few of his Irishman, but Schumer got his Bangladeshis, Nigerians and others of the now and future coalition of the aggrieved. And in the long view, I don't think that Kennedy was to upset with this.

    So Kennedy gets all the blame again for another immigration act in wich others actually put in the poison.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Daniel H
    >>So Kennedy gets all the blame again for another immigration act in wich others actually put in the poison

    Kennedy had a big hand in proposing and endorsing these acts, and when they turned truly destructive in the hands of the likes of Schumer he did nothing to oppose Schumer, in fact he continued endorsing them.
  33. @Daniel H
    OT: "US admiral says Russian activity in the Mediterranean and other European seas is higher than at any time during the Cold War - and warns NATO not to be 'split and distracted' by Putin's schemes"

    Photo of said Admiral

    http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2017/04/09/18/3F1B849200000578-4395398-image-a-6_1491759046006.jpg

    Chester Nimitz or Raymond Spruance she ain’t!

    Read More
  34. @Triumph104
    Short of the US turning into feudal Japan, the green card visa lottery is an excellent program. Obviously people living in hell holes are going to be the most likely to apply, but the US screens them for high school education or work experience that requires two years of education. Less than 1% of applicants world-wide are accepted.

    A poster's daughter married a guy from Romania who had won the visa lottery. Stefan Stoykov came to the US from Bulgaria at the age of eight when his parents won the visa lottery -- 10 years later he was accepted into all eight Ivy League colleges.

    Russia is even considering its own visa lottery.

    https://www.rt.com/politics/370236-lawmakers-propose-free-lottery-with/

    I’m more and more attracted by feudal Japan, and certainly by modern Japan’s immigration policy. Why does the U.S. need any more people at all!? What skills do they bring that could not be developed indigenously? What young person from heritage America in Des Moines or Lincoln didn’t go to an Ivy League college because some G-d d-amned Bulgarian, whose ancestors did absolutely nothing to build the United States, is there? Does anyone seriously believe that this product of the Balkans (not worth the bones of a single Pomeranian grenadier, according to Otto von Bismarck) is so all-fired special not he is deserving of acceptance by all eight Ivy League colleges.

    I am so sick of this Cult of Immigrant Worship! The U.S. woud have been better off, and would be better off today, if the 19th Century Know Nothing program of immigration restriction had been adopted.

    Read More
    • Agree: bomag, Jim Don Bob, BB753
    • Replies: @Opinionator
    Good comment.
    , @Corvinus
    "I am so sick of this Cult of Immigrant Worship! The U.S. woud have been better off, and would be better off today, if the 19th Century Know Nothing program of immigration restriction had been adopted."

    Limited Irish, or Germans, or Italians, or Slavs, or Indians (dot, not feather), or Chinese, or Assyrian populations. Fine. You do realize out of these tens of millions of people who came here that they sired offspring who built companies from scratch, made technological innovations, and contributed in other ways to our great nation, right?

    Praytell, what is your ethnic background? Would you have been "off the list" by the Know Nothings? What makes you special? What have you contributed.
    , @Triumph104
    Yeah, that's rich coming from someone who has a president whose mother, paternal grandfather, first wife, and third wife -- current first lady of the US -- are ALL immigrants. Believe me immigration is just fine with you as long as you believe it will benefit you and yours.

    Speaking as the descendant of US slaves, they could have shut all of you out after 1807. Immigration was never a problem when whites were stomping on blacks.
  35. Lugash says:
    @Daniel H
    OT: "US admiral says Russian activity in the Mediterranean and other European seas is higher than at any time during the Cold War - and warns NATO not to be 'split and distracted' by Putin's schemes"

    Photo of said Admiral

    http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2017/04/09/18/3F1B849200000578-4395398-image-a-6_1491759046006.jpg

    If you took her out of uniform you’d easily mistake her for an assistant principal. No one would make that mistake with Bull Halsey.

    Of course, Mike Mullen looks like an accountant.

    Read More
  36. Amasius says:
    @Anon7
    Why is President Trump wasting our time? Immigration, immigration, immigration. Fix it, which in my case means everyone not a citizen has to leave, no legal immigration unless some overwhelming advantage can be cited on a case-by-case basis and suitable border security.

    Tick tock, Mr. Trump. You want another term, that's what you need to do.

    Brother, it’s over. I’m telling you now so you don’t get really mad when Trump pushes through amnesty and an increase in immigration. Only “racists” and “deplorables” want to reduce immigration; not his new neocon friends, not anyone with a lot of money. Only “racists” and “deplorables” want to do anything about the 40 million illegal squatters in this country. There is no incentive to passing a restrictionist immigration bill, so it’s not going to happen; the opposite will be happening.

    https://ftalphaville.ft.com/2017/04/07/2187127/trump-appoints-pro-immigration-free-trader-as-cea-chair/

    Read More
    • Replies: @bomag
    From the linked article:

    Jason Furman ✔ @jasonfurman
    Kevin Hassett is an excellent pick. He is serious about substance, committed to dialogue, & knows how to navigate DC. I wish him good luck.
     
    This is what buzzards say to each other when they are circling a carcass.
    , @Opinionator
    You're going to give up so easily? Shame on you.
  37. The UN projects Ghana’s population at 50 million in 2050 and 73 million in 2100.

    Umm, where did they get the idea that population growth would slow down that much? (Doubling in a bit over three decades but then growing by less than 50% in half a century?)

    Read More
  38. George says:
    @Daniel H
    The original intent of this program was to explicitly give preference to Irish and other under represented European nationalities that make up the majority of the US genetic stock, and had been the main stream of immigration prior to 1965. But, you guessed it, Chuck Schumer objected, saying that that would be racist, to single out Europeans for preference, so the requirements of the program were changed, explicitly disavowing nationality and emphasizing all sorts of qualities and requirements, among which were proficiency in English. Presumably this would qualify lots of Irish because they speak English. Well, so do lots of Bangladeshis, Nigerians, Ghanians, etc, and there are 100s of million more of them than Irishman. So Kennedy got very few of his Irishman, but Schumer got his Bangladeshis, Nigerians and others of the now and future coalition of the aggrieved. And in the long view, I don't think that Kennedy was to upset with this.

    Schumer/McCain tried to correct it by extending Australian E-3 visas to Irish.

    Top ten facts you need to know about the E3 Schumer visas for Irish

    http://www.irishcentral.com/news/top-ten-facts-you-need-to-know-about-the-e3-schumer-visas-for-irish-208986091-237592091

    The E3 initiative was first proposed for Ireland by the Irish Lobby for Immigration Reform after the failure of Kennedy/McCain immigration bill.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E-3_visa

    Fwiw the visa lottery probably reduces corruption and expense associated with government schemes.

    One reason for the lottery format, they loved lotteries in the 60s
    What’s Your Number? The Vietnam War Selective Service Lottery

    http://www.historynet.com/whats-your-number.htm

    Read More
    • Replies: @Mike Sylwester
    Fwiw the visa lottery probably reduces corruption

    That is one good thing about the visa lottery. Visas are not awarded on the basis of bribing US consulate officials.
  39. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer

    Willie Wonka’s Golden Tickets.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Njguy73

    Willie Wonka’s Golden Tickets.</blockquote

    Maybe we should build a chocolate river so some fat illegals get sucked up the pipe.
  40. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer

    Vanishingly few (genuine) western Europeans ever emigrate to the USA anymore.
    For a typical workaday average western European emigration to the USA is high on impossible, so they don’t even consider it.
    Strange how the ‘visa diversity lottery’ doesn’t apply to them.

    Read More
  41. @Triumph104
    Short of the US turning into feudal Japan, the green card visa lottery is an excellent program. Obviously people living in hell holes are going to be the most likely to apply, but the US screens them for high school education or work experience that requires two years of education. Less than 1% of applicants world-wide are accepted.

    A poster's daughter married a guy from Romania who had won the visa lottery. Stefan Stoykov came to the US from Bulgaria at the age of eight when his parents won the visa lottery -- 10 years later he was accepted into all eight Ivy League colleges.

    Russia is even considering its own visa lottery.

    https://www.rt.com/politics/370236-lawmakers-propose-free-lottery-with/

    A poster’s daughter married a guy from Romania who had won the visa lottery.

    Does that make her a poster child?

    Read More
  42. In general, I agree with the criticism of this visa-lottery program, but I want to tell everyone here about my son-in-law, who won such a visa.

    Egidijus grew up in Lithuania. He is about 35 years old now and won his visa when he was about 23 years old. He has been living in the USA for about a dozen years. (These numbers are estimates.)

    His father was a farmer, and his mother was a nurse. He has one brother, who is an ambulance driver. The family lives on the outskirts of a town with a population of about 16,000. Practically no non-Lithuanians live there.

    Egidijus was about 11 years old when the Soviet Union collapsed. From a young age, he dreamed of emigrating from Lithuania to the USA.

    He had no relatives or acquaintances in the USA. He did not study English in school. The only foreign language he ever studied was Russian. He had no real prospect to even visit the USA.

    He attended a Lithuanian university and earned a degree in electrical engineering.

    Soon after he graduated, he heard about the visa lottery for the first time. He entered the lottery on a whim and won on his first try.

    He was allowed to grant a visa to one close relative. He was not married and did not even have a girlfriend, so he offered the visa to his brother. His brother had no interest in starting a new life in the USA, so Egidijus emigrated alone.

    Not knowing anyone in the USA, Egidijus settled in New Jersey because he heard that it was a place where some Lithuanians had settled. He soon became acquainted with a Lithuanian-American who owned a small electrician company and who hired him. Egidijus worked in this company and began to teach himself English.

    My wife is Lithuanian, and her son and daughter lived with us. In Lithuania, my wife was a nurse. After her husband died, she came to the USA to visit her sister, who was married to a Lithuanian-American. She and I met on December 3, 1994, and were married on January 19, 1995. At that time she did not speak any English, but she and I both speak Russian.

    My step-son was educated in Lithuania in mathematics and computer programming. He graduated soon after the Soviet Union collapsed, and an international company hired him as a cheap programmer. That company employed him in various countries and eventually stationed him in the USA.

    Because my wife married me, her daughter was allowed to immigrate legally when she was about 15 years old. I never had children of my own, and she always has been a very affectionate daughter to me. She is tall and thin, and she became a professional model as a teenager and dropped out of high school and moved to New York City. After a while, my wife and I moved from Oregon to New Jersey to be closer to her. Eventually my wife and her son and daughter and I all lived in one home in South Hackensack.

    My step-son is an extraordinarily popular person who organizes parties and activities that attract Lithuanian immigrants to our home.

    Egidijus visited our home frequently, and eventually he and my daughter fell in love. He too moved into our home, and a couple years later, he and she married. A couple years later they moved out of our home into their own home, which is only a few miles away.

    As Egidijus learned English, he started his own electrician company. He continue to work half-time for his original employer for a couple years, but eventually he quit there completely and worked only for himself.

    As a self-employed small-business owner, he works about 70 hours a week. He employs several people, most of whom are immigrants from Latin America.

    He recently bought a run-down apartment building, which he is fixing up and renting out.

    Egidijus does not involve himself in politics, but when he expresses political opinions, they place him well within the conservative range of US politics.

    Most of the Lithuanians I know — including my wife and step-son — are fervent supporters of Democrat politics. They hate Donald Trump, because they favor mass immigration and oppose enforcement of our immigration laws. Probably most of my Lithuanian friends came to the USA on tourist or business visas and and then gradually legalized themselves (fake marriages, married citizens, etc.) They all hate Trump, because they all think that all other Lithuanians should be able to immigrate as they themselves did.

    In contrast, Egidijus, who immigrated legally, likes Trump and opposes illegal immigration. He is an odd-ball in our local Lithuanian community. (My step-daughter, who likewise immigrated legally, is apolitical.)

    My own large family is 99% Democrats, very liberal, who hate Trump furiously. Only I and one brother are Republicans. I am one of seven children. All my many other siblings and in-laws and nephews and nieces are zealous, Trump-hating Democrats. (My parents were too, but they both died of old age in the summer of 2016. If they had lived longer, they both would have died of strokes on Election Night.)

    So, in my family I am completely surrounded by liberal, Trump-hating Democrats — except for my one Republican brother and Egidijus.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Opinionator
    Interesting anecdote.
    , @Reg Cæsar
    If this Egidijus is as good as you describe, it sounds like we won the lottery. But only by purchasing so many tickets that we're still in the hole.
    , @SportsFan
    Your sample may be atypical. Lithuanians skew conservative and have traditionally voted Republican because of the party's stronger anti-Soviet stance and emphasis on traditional family values. The post WWII immigrants from Lithuania were escaping the Soviets and almost certain one-way tickets to Siberian gulags. Trump may have been somewhat of an exception because of his perceived pro-Putin/pro-Russia tendencies.
    The two career paths strongly encouraged by Lithuanian parents are medical doctor or engineer. In my wife's family every single adult going back 2 generations is an MD or a PhD.
    Working as an electrician while they establish themselves is a very typical choice for male immigrants from Lithuania. Not that they immigrate that much to the U.S. anymore; the last green card lottery was something like 150 people from Lithuania.
    , @Moshe
    That was the funniest thing I ever read!
    , @Opinionator
    She and I met on December 3, 1994, and were married on January 19, 1995.

    What explains the relatively short time between meeting and marriage? I do not think there is anything wrong with that--perhaps it is even a good thing--but it is unusual. I would love to hear the story.
    , @sb
    This is very different to Australia . There just about all Eastern European migrants identify with the right . Even mild social democracy is just too close to Stalinism .
    Can't say I blame them .

    I knew an Australian guy who won one of these diversity visas and never really used it . Apparently they have a use by date . His regret was that he couldn't sell it on
  43. Dan Hayes says:
    @Reg Cæsar

    The Republic of Congo is Little Congo...

    ...the Democratic Republic of the Congo (formerly Zaire), or Big Congo.
     
    I prefer "French Congo" and "Belgian Congo".

    ...a diversity visa lottery that lets in 50,000 lucky winners per year from obscure countries that don’t send all that many immigrants through other channels.
     
    Ah, but the diversity lottery might have been good, had it been combined with a cap on all immigrants. That way there'd be fewer Mexicans, Chinese, Indians, and whatever's next after those behemoths. (We could always make a sentimental exception for Pilipinos. They'd have a separate cap.)

    A true diversity lottery combined with a cap might not be ideal, but it would greatly retard the rising tide of color's ability to unite against us.

    Minneapolis-St Paul is about as white a metro area as Cincinnati, but the latter has one minority, and thus sees riots whenever anything goes wrong. The Twin Cities minority is split among several kinds of blacks, several kinds of Asians, several kinds of Indians-- i.e., several kinds of feathers and several kinds of dots. And yes, Hispanics, but they're split everywhere else, too.

    All we see here is the occasional wimpy protest march, usually with more whites than everyone else combined.

    Reg Caesar:

    Are your area’s occasional wimpy protest marches led by its best-known bleeding heart liberal, Garrison Keillor?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    The only march I've seen him at was for F Scott's 100th birthday, which he led, in a top hat.
    , @bomag
    I caught Keillor live last week. No politics; lots of Americana; downright conservative in sentiment when reflecting on modern trends. I can't help but think that his later-in-life reflections has made him less enamored of the progressive tropes he was happy to champion on the public radio stage.

    I suppose he is like every liberal I know: they'll mouth the platitudes, but personally live conservative; and expect the conservative world in which they grew up to be there in the future.
  44. @Ryan Andrews


    The author is a well-known public intellectual who has been published and interviewed countless times in America’s most prestigious mainstream media. She feels she cannot be honest publicly about the issues discussed here.

    https://www.amren.com/features/2017/04/how-i-became-conservative-schools-iq/
     
    Good on her for speaking out, I guess, but these 'scales-falling-from-my-eyes-on-racial-differences' stories always sound kinda phony to me. Maybe the behavior of these kids was exactly as she claims. But what I don't find at all credible is that the idea of innate racial intellectual differences never even crossed her mind until a series of harrowing encounters with vibrant youths. If you live in any decent-sized American metro area, and aren't a complete dullard, this is something you pick up on just by living your life. Steve has made this point in the past, I think.

    I'm sure a lot of Leftists (and others) do honestly believe in the 100% nurture-over-nature theory, but that doesn't mean that, in their heart-of-hearts, they've closed off any possibility that they could be wrong.

    But what I don’t find at all credible is that the idea of innate racial intellectual differences never even crossed her mind until a series of harrowing encounters with vibrant youths.

    I don’t think most people are capable of blunt honesty. They don’t have the fortitude to simply say “This is what I see, think, or believe.” Therefore they have to dress up their statements in these sorts of pseudo-dramatic narratives. By making themselves out to be the passive subject of experiences, they avoid taking full responsibility for the truth they are reporting.

    I find this kind of thing personally irritating, but it’s far too common a human failing to ever be eradicated, and it’s foolish to even try. We have to remember that even on “our side,” the vast majority of people will simply be followers, not leaders.

    Hitherto the Alt-Right has consisted almost exclusively of disaffected leader-types, unhorsed knights, exiled nobles, and would-be commanders. We should take it as a positive sign that we are finally attracting some normal followers into our movement. It means we’re no longer that far out on the fringe.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Alec Leamas

    @Ryan Andrews

    But what I don’t find at all credible is that the idea of innate racial intellectual differences never even crossed her mind until a series of harrowing encounters with vibrant youths.
     
    I don’t think most people are capable of blunt honesty. They don’t have the fortitude to simply say “This is what I see, think, or believe.” Therefore they have to dress up their statements in these sorts of pseudo-dramatic narratives. By making themselves out to be the passive subject of experiences, they avoid taking full responsibility for the truth they are reporting.
     
    It's a began as a matter of solid middle class decorum not to speak openly about racial differences, especially any which might reflect negatively on blacks. At some point it ceased being a matter of good manners and became a class heresy, even as these people worked assiduously to insulate themselves from underclass blacks on a daily basis.

    If you're from the working class (which for many means having been exposed to and subject to the behavior of large populations of urban blacks) you don't have that luxury.
  45. @Diversity Heretic
    I'm more and more attracted by feudal Japan, and certainly by modern Japan's immigration policy. Why does the U.S. need any more people at all!? What skills do they bring that could not be developed indigenously? What young person from heritage America in Des Moines or Lincoln didn't go to an Ivy League college because some G-d d-amned Bulgarian, whose ancestors did absolutely nothing to build the United States, is there? Does anyone seriously believe that this product of the Balkans (not worth the bones of a single Pomeranian grenadier, according to Otto von Bismarck) is so all-fired special not he is deserving of acceptance by all eight Ivy League colleges.

    I am so sick of this Cult of Immigrant Worship! The U.S. woud have been better off, and would be better off today, if the 19th Century Know Nothing program of immigration restriction had been adopted.

    Good comment.

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  46. @Triumph104
    Short of the US turning into feudal Japan, the green card visa lottery is an excellent program. Obviously people living in hell holes are going to be the most likely to apply, but the US screens them for high school education or work experience that requires two years of education. Less than 1% of applicants world-wide are accepted.

    A poster's daughter married a guy from Romania who had won the visa lottery. Stefan Stoykov came to the US from Bulgaria at the age of eight when his parents won the visa lottery -- 10 years later he was accepted into all eight Ivy League colleges.

    Russia is even considering its own visa lottery.

    https://www.rt.com/politics/370236-lawmakers-propose-free-lottery-with/

    A poster’s daughter married a guy from Romania who had won the visa lottery.

    Leaving an American man out in the cold.

    Stefan Stoykov came to the US from Bulgaria at the age of eight when his parents won the visa lottery — 10 years later he was accepted into all eight Ivy League colleges.

    Taking a seat away from an American kid.

    The green card lottery is bad for Americans.

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  47. @Mike Sylwester
    In general, I agree with the criticism of this visa-lottery program, but I want to tell everyone here about my son-in-law, who won such a visa.

    Egidijus grew up in Lithuania. He is about 35 years old now and won his visa when he was about 23 years old. He has been living in the USA for about a dozen years. (These numbers are estimates.)

    His father was a farmer, and his mother was a nurse. He has one brother, who is an ambulance driver. The family lives on the outskirts of a town with a population of about 16,000. Practically no non-Lithuanians live there.

    Egidijus was about 11 years old when the Soviet Union collapsed. From a young age, he dreamed of emigrating from Lithuania to the USA.

    He had no relatives or acquaintances in the USA. He did not study English in school. The only foreign language he ever studied was Russian. He had no real prospect to even visit the USA.

    He attended a Lithuanian university and earned a degree in electrical engineering.

    Soon after he graduated, he heard about the visa lottery for the first time. He entered the lottery on a whim and won on his first try.

    He was allowed to grant a visa to one close relative. He was not married and did not even have a girlfriend, so he offered the visa to his brother. His brother had no interest in starting a new life in the USA, so Egidijus emigrated alone.

    Not knowing anyone in the USA, Egidijus settled in New Jersey because he heard that it was a place where some Lithuanians had settled. He soon became acquainted with a Lithuanian-American who owned a small electrician company and who hired him. Egidijus worked in this company and began to teach himself English.

    My wife is Lithuanian, and her son and daughter lived with us. In Lithuania, my wife was a nurse. After her husband died, she came to the USA to visit her sister, who was married to a Lithuanian-American. She and I met on December 3, 1994, and were married on January 19, 1995. At that time she did not speak any English, but she and I both speak Russian.

    My step-son was educated in Lithuania in mathematics and computer programming. He graduated soon after the Soviet Union collapsed, and an international company hired him as a cheap programmer. That company employed him in various countries and eventually stationed him in the USA.

    Because my wife married me, her daughter was allowed to immigrate legally when she was about 15 years old. I never had children of my own, and she always has been a very affectionate daughter to me. She is tall and thin, and she became a professional model as a teenager and dropped out of high school and moved to New York City. After a while, my wife and I moved from Oregon to New Jersey to be closer to her. Eventually my wife and her son and daughter and I all lived in one home in South Hackensack.

    My step-son is an extraordinarily popular person who organizes parties and activities that attract Lithuanian immigrants to our home.

    Egidijus visited our home frequently, and eventually he and my daughter fell in love. He too moved into our home, and a couple years later, he and she married. A couple years later they moved out of our home into their own home, which is only a few miles away.

    As Egidijus learned English, he started his own electrician company. He continue to work half-time for his original employer for a couple years, but eventually he quit there completely and worked only for himself.

    As a self-employed small-business owner, he works about 70 hours a week. He employs several people, most of whom are immigrants from Latin America.

    He recently bought a run-down apartment building, which he is fixing up and renting out.

    Egidijus does not involve himself in politics, but when he expresses political opinions, they place him well within the conservative range of US politics.

    Most of the Lithuanians I know -- including my wife and step-son -- are fervent supporters of Democrat politics. They hate Donald Trump, because they favor mass immigration and oppose enforcement of our immigration laws. Probably most of my Lithuanian friends came to the USA on tourist or business visas and and then gradually legalized themselves (fake marriages, married citizens, etc.) They all hate Trump, because they all think that all other Lithuanians should be able to immigrate as they themselves did.

    In contrast, Egidijus, who immigrated legally, likes Trump and opposes illegal immigration. He is an odd-ball in our local Lithuanian community. (My step-daughter, who likewise immigrated legally, is apolitical.)

    My own large family is 99% Democrats, very liberal, who hate Trump furiously. Only I and one brother are Republicans. I am one of seven children. All my many other siblings and in-laws and nephews and nieces are zealous, Trump-hating Democrats. (My parents were too, but they both died of old age in the summer of 2016. If they had lived longer, they both would have died of strokes on Election Night.)

    So, in my family I am completely surrounded by liberal, Trump-hating Democrats -- except for my one Republican brother and Egidijus.

    Interesting anecdote.

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  48. @Dan Hayes
    Reg Caesar:

    Are your area's occasional wimpy protest marches led by its best-known bleeding heart liberal, Garrison Keillor?

    The only march I’ve seen him at was for F Scott’s 100th birthday, which he led, in a top hat.

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  49. @Mike Sylwester
    In general, I agree with the criticism of this visa-lottery program, but I want to tell everyone here about my son-in-law, who won such a visa.

    Egidijus grew up in Lithuania. He is about 35 years old now and won his visa when he was about 23 years old. He has been living in the USA for about a dozen years. (These numbers are estimates.)

    His father was a farmer, and his mother was a nurse. He has one brother, who is an ambulance driver. The family lives on the outskirts of a town with a population of about 16,000. Practically no non-Lithuanians live there.

    Egidijus was about 11 years old when the Soviet Union collapsed. From a young age, he dreamed of emigrating from Lithuania to the USA.

    He had no relatives or acquaintances in the USA. He did not study English in school. The only foreign language he ever studied was Russian. He had no real prospect to even visit the USA.

    He attended a Lithuanian university and earned a degree in electrical engineering.

    Soon after he graduated, he heard about the visa lottery for the first time. He entered the lottery on a whim and won on his first try.

    He was allowed to grant a visa to one close relative. He was not married and did not even have a girlfriend, so he offered the visa to his brother. His brother had no interest in starting a new life in the USA, so Egidijus emigrated alone.

    Not knowing anyone in the USA, Egidijus settled in New Jersey because he heard that it was a place where some Lithuanians had settled. He soon became acquainted with a Lithuanian-American who owned a small electrician company and who hired him. Egidijus worked in this company and began to teach himself English.

    My wife is Lithuanian, and her son and daughter lived with us. In Lithuania, my wife was a nurse. After her husband died, she came to the USA to visit her sister, who was married to a Lithuanian-American. She and I met on December 3, 1994, and were married on January 19, 1995. At that time she did not speak any English, but she and I both speak Russian.

    My step-son was educated in Lithuania in mathematics and computer programming. He graduated soon after the Soviet Union collapsed, and an international company hired him as a cheap programmer. That company employed him in various countries and eventually stationed him in the USA.

    Because my wife married me, her daughter was allowed to immigrate legally when she was about 15 years old. I never had children of my own, and she always has been a very affectionate daughter to me. She is tall and thin, and she became a professional model as a teenager and dropped out of high school and moved to New York City. After a while, my wife and I moved from Oregon to New Jersey to be closer to her. Eventually my wife and her son and daughter and I all lived in one home in South Hackensack.

    My step-son is an extraordinarily popular person who organizes parties and activities that attract Lithuanian immigrants to our home.

    Egidijus visited our home frequently, and eventually he and my daughter fell in love. He too moved into our home, and a couple years later, he and she married. A couple years later they moved out of our home into their own home, which is only a few miles away.

    As Egidijus learned English, he started his own electrician company. He continue to work half-time for his original employer for a couple years, but eventually he quit there completely and worked only for himself.

    As a self-employed small-business owner, he works about 70 hours a week. He employs several people, most of whom are immigrants from Latin America.

    He recently bought a run-down apartment building, which he is fixing up and renting out.

    Egidijus does not involve himself in politics, but when he expresses political opinions, they place him well within the conservative range of US politics.

    Most of the Lithuanians I know -- including my wife and step-son -- are fervent supporters of Democrat politics. They hate Donald Trump, because they favor mass immigration and oppose enforcement of our immigration laws. Probably most of my Lithuanian friends came to the USA on tourist or business visas and and then gradually legalized themselves (fake marriages, married citizens, etc.) They all hate Trump, because they all think that all other Lithuanians should be able to immigrate as they themselves did.

    In contrast, Egidijus, who immigrated legally, likes Trump and opposes illegal immigration. He is an odd-ball in our local Lithuanian community. (My step-daughter, who likewise immigrated legally, is apolitical.)

    My own large family is 99% Democrats, very liberal, who hate Trump furiously. Only I and one brother are Republicans. I am one of seven children. All my many other siblings and in-laws and nephews and nieces are zealous, Trump-hating Democrats. (My parents were too, but they both died of old age in the summer of 2016. If they had lived longer, they both would have died of strokes on Election Night.)

    So, in my family I am completely surrounded by liberal, Trump-hating Democrats -- except for my one Republican brother and Egidijus.

    If this Egidijus is as good as you describe, it sounds like we won the lottery. But only by purchasing so many tickets that we’re still in the hole.

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  50. Berty says:

    It’s great how Steve refuses to end anonymous comments so we continue to get bombarded with this trolling crap.

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  51. IHTG says:

    A Happy Krikorian:

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  52. @Opinionator
    About 500,000 lottery winners are granted visas every 10 years, or about an even million in 20 years.

    Isn't that about the same number of slaves who were imported into the United States?

    It is said that total number of slaves imported into the United States numbered no more than 450,000 people, with 390,000 of them coming directly from Africa and the remainder from elsewhere in the Americas.

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  53. @Berty
    It's great how Steve refuses to end anonymous comments so we continue to get bombarded with this trolling crap.

    What are you talking about?

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  54. bomag says:
    @Amasius
    Brother, it's over. I'm telling you now so you don't get really mad when Trump pushes through amnesty and an increase in immigration. Only "racists" and "deplorables" want to reduce immigration; not his new neocon friends, not anyone with a lot of money. Only "racists" and "deplorables" want to do anything about the 40 million illegal squatters in this country. There is no incentive to passing a restrictionist immigration bill, so it's not going to happen; the opposite will be happening.

    https://ftalphaville.ft.com/2017/04/07/2187127/trump-appoints-pro-immigration-free-trader-as-cea-chair/

    From the linked article:

    Jason Furman ✔ @jasonfurman
    Kevin Hassett is an excellent pick. He is serious about substance, committed to dialogue, & knows how to navigate DC. I wish him good luck.

    This is what buzzards say to each other when they are circling a carcass.

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  55. bomag says:
    @E. Harding
    I actually don't have a problem with this, as long as it's limited. Serves as a natural experiment in many ways.

    Serves as a natural experiment in many ways.

    And if this experiment fails, will there be anyone around to announce that result? Will there be a window to which we can go and get our money back?

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  56. @Amasius
    Brother, it's over. I'm telling you now so you don't get really mad when Trump pushes through amnesty and an increase in immigration. Only "racists" and "deplorables" want to reduce immigration; not his new neocon friends, not anyone with a lot of money. Only "racists" and "deplorables" want to do anything about the 40 million illegal squatters in this country. There is no incentive to passing a restrictionist immigration bill, so it's not going to happen; the opposite will be happening.

    https://ftalphaville.ft.com/2017/04/07/2187127/trump-appoints-pro-immigration-free-trader-as-cea-chair/

    You’re going to give up so easily? Shame on you.

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  57. @E. Harding
    I actually don't have a problem with this, as long as it's limited. Serves as a natural experiment in many ways.

    History and biology have already shown us how this experiment ends. And it is not favorable to the continuity of the native species.

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  58. bomag says:
    @Dan Hayes
    Reg Caesar:

    Are your area's occasional wimpy protest marches led by its best-known bleeding heart liberal, Garrison Keillor?

    I caught Keillor live last week. No politics; lots of Americana; downright conservative in sentiment when reflecting on modern trends. I can’t help but think that his later-in-life reflections has made him less enamored of the progressive tropes he was happy to champion on the public radio stage.

    I suppose he is like every liberal I know: they’ll mouth the platitudes, but personally live conservative; and expect the conservative world in which they grew up to be there in the future.

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    • Replies: @Harry Baldwin
    I gave up on Prairie Home Companion in the late 1990s when Keillor became such a vocal defender of Bill Clinton. Later it came out that Keillor also exercised a little droit du seigneur with his staff.
  59. @Clifford Brown
    Completely unhinged anti-Wall Editorial in today's New York Times.

    Do you realize that a wall would trap millions of unauthorized immigrants in the United States?
     
    https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/08/opinion/up-against-the-wall.html?_r=0

    Apparently they conceive of the wall as a crab trap.

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  60. George says:

    “Wasn’t an Uzbek immigrant in the news recently?”

    Actually Dr Watson, your reference to Swedish Asylum type policies has disproved your reference to America’s visa lottery, The World’s Dumbest Immigration Program hypothesis.

    The Uzbek in Sweden was probably some kind of asylum seeker. Basically, a disgruntled Uzbek that managed to save a few thousand whatever they use from money in those parts and took a bunch of busses to Sweden. My guess is people who are disgruntled in one place have a high probability of being disgruntled anywhere they settle.

    The visa lottery, on the other hand, requires a minimal degree of organization and cooperation with others to get the forms and stuff filled out. So as you can Dr Watson, a visa lottery filters out the worst of the applicants and is the optimal way to filter out organized terrorists and criminals as it is impossible for a group of people to guarantee they will win the lottery simultaneously. The lottery also avoids paying bureaucrats basically to hibernate until they collect their pension.

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  61. @Intelligent Dasein

    But what I don’t find at all credible is that the idea of innate racial intellectual differences never even crossed her mind until a series of harrowing encounters with vibrant youths.
     
    I don't think most people are capable of blunt honesty. They don't have the fortitude to simply say "This is what I see, think, or believe." Therefore they have to dress up their statements in these sorts of pseudo-dramatic narratives. By making themselves out to be the passive subject of experiences, they avoid taking full responsibility for the truth they are reporting.

    I find this kind of thing personally irritating, but it's far too common a human failing to ever be eradicated, and it's foolish to even try. We have to remember that even on "our side," the vast majority of people will simply be followers, not leaders.

    Hitherto the Alt-Right has consisted almost exclusively of disaffected leader-types, unhorsed knights, exiled nobles, and would-be commanders. We should take it as a positive sign that we are finally attracting some normal followers into our movement. It means we're no longer that far out on the fringe.

    But what I don’t find at all credible is that the idea of innate racial intellectual differences never even crossed her mind until a series of harrowing encounters with vibrant youths.

    I don’t think most people are capable of blunt honesty. They don’t have the fortitude to simply say “This is what I see, think, or believe.” Therefore they have to dress up their statements in these sorts of pseudo-dramatic narratives. By making themselves out to be the passive subject of experiences, they avoid taking full responsibility for the truth they are reporting.

    It’s a began as a matter of solid middle class decorum not to speak openly about racial differences, especially any which might reflect negatively on blacks. At some point it ceased being a matter of good manners and became a class heresy, even as these people worked assiduously to insulate themselves from underclass blacks on a daily basis.

    If you’re from the working class (which for many means having been exposed to and subject to the behavior of large populations of urban blacks) you don’t have that luxury.

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  62. Ed says:
    @Anon

    In fiscal 2015 (the most recent year for detailed data on application countries), about 12% of the 14.4 million people who applied for the visa lottery were citizens of Ghana (1.7 million).
     
    So under open borders more than a million people would come from Ghana almost instantly? For people like Bryan Caplan this is the feature, not the bug of open borders.



    btw, have y'all seen this one over at AmRen, here's the author bio:


    The author is a well-known public intellectual who has been published and interviewed countless times in America’s most prestigious mainstream media. She feels she cannot be honest publicly about the issues discussed here.

    https://www.amren.com/features/2017/04/how-i-became-conservative-schools-iq/
     

    That’s undercounting. That’s only the people that could afford the application fees.

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  63. Ed says:

    The funny thing is the diversity lottery has been on the chopping block for awhile but since Congress doesn’t pass many laws of consequence these days it skates by. Cotton’s immigration bill would eliminate it.

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  64. Ed says:
    @DPG
    I worked with a Ghanaian. Nice guy, but dumb as a box of rocks. Dumbest guy in the dept. We don't need them.

    My parents came from Ghana in the 70s. They’re not dumb as rocks and neither am I. So we’ll cancel out your co-worker.

    Now I’m not arrogant or silly enough to say the USA needs Ghanaians but we are not a problem. Heck if it wasn’t for black immigrants the already woeful statistics for African-Americans would be significantly worse.

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  65. @Clifford Brown
    Completely unhinged anti-Wall Editorial in today's New York Times.

    Do you realize that a wall would trap millions of unauthorized immigrants in the United States?
     
    https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/08/opinion/up-against-the-wall.html?_r=0

    Now we’re supposed to call them unauthorized immigrants?

    The correct, legal term is illegal aliens.

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  66. IHTG says:
    @Ed
    My parents came from Ghana in the 70s. They're not dumb as rocks and neither am I. So we'll cancel out your co-worker.

    Now I'm not arrogant or silly enough to say the USA needs Ghanaians but we are not a problem. Heck if it wasn't for black immigrants the already woeful statistics for African-Americans would be significantly worse.

    Hey, your Twitter feed is top-notch, man.

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  67. @Ryan Andrews


    The author is a well-known public intellectual who has been published and interviewed countless times in America’s most prestigious mainstream media. She feels she cannot be honest publicly about the issues discussed here.

    https://www.amren.com/features/2017/04/how-i-became-conservative-schools-iq/
     
    Good on her for speaking out, I guess, but these 'scales-falling-from-my-eyes-on-racial-differences' stories always sound kinda phony to me. Maybe the behavior of these kids was exactly as she claims. But what I don't find at all credible is that the idea of innate racial intellectual differences never even crossed her mind until a series of harrowing encounters with vibrant youths. If you live in any decent-sized American metro area, and aren't a complete dullard, this is something you pick up on just by living your life. Steve has made this point in the past, I think.

    I'm sure a lot of Leftists (and others) do honestly believe in the 100% nurture-over-nature theory, but that doesn't mean that, in their heart-of-hearts, they've closed off any possibility that they could be wrong.

    I don’t think the author’s ‘scales-falling-from-my-eyes-on-racial-differences’ story sounds phony, because I went through a similar process. Living in NYC for a few years while attending college in the 1970s, I came to realize that blacks were more violent and crime-prone; however, I was in my late 30s before I really accepted that blacks are on average less intelligent. This realization came after reading some of the books on the subject that preceded The Bell Curve, such as America’s Bimodal Crisis: Black Intelligence in White Society (1985) and A Question of Intelligence: The IQ Debate in America (1992). The facts about black intelligence were still largely taboo: Bob Grant, the sharp-tongued NYC talk radio host who was startlingly blunt about race problems always steered clear of it, as did Jared Taylor in Paved With Good Intentions (1992). Ann Coulter still won’t go there, falling back on the “children raised without fathers” explanation for black dysfunction.

    Lawrence Auster describes a similarly slow evolution of his views on black intelligence here: http://www.amnation.com/vfr/archives/001132.html

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  68. A guy I worked with got here on a diversity lottery visa (his dad won it when he was in high school). His grandparents on both sides, and a couple uncles and their kids are all here now too. The guy was very surprised I had heard of the diversity lottery.

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  69. fitzGetty says:
    @Anon7
    Why is President Trump wasting our time? Immigration, immigration, immigration. Fix it, which in my case means everyone not a citizen has to leave, no legal immigration unless some overwhelming advantage can be cited on a case-by-case basis and suitable border security.

    Tick tock, Mr. Trump. You want another term, that's what you need to do.

    … and instant deportation after a crime is committed … instant …

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    • Replies: @Anon7
    Good point. I'd also like to point out that there is a perfectly good process called "denaturalization" that can be used to revoke an immigrant's citizenship, and have them deported.
  70. fitzGetty says:

    This visa programme stems from another age – a time of open spaces, general optimism, low immigrant crime, no immigrant terrorism etc … obviously , to reflect changed times, it must be scrapped …

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  71. @bomag
    I caught Keillor live last week. No politics; lots of Americana; downright conservative in sentiment when reflecting on modern trends. I can't help but think that his later-in-life reflections has made him less enamored of the progressive tropes he was happy to champion on the public radio stage.

    I suppose he is like every liberal I know: they'll mouth the platitudes, but personally live conservative; and expect the conservative world in which they grew up to be there in the future.

    I gave up on Prairie Home Companion in the late 1990s when Keillor became such a vocal defender of Bill Clinton. Later it came out that Keillor also exercised a little droit du seigneur with his staff.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Jim Don Bob
    Me too. Listened to him a lot in the 1980s and not at all for about 25 years.
  72. @George
    Schumer/McCain tried to correct it by extending Australian E-3 visas to Irish.

    Top ten facts you need to know about the E3 Schumer visas for Irish

    http://www.irishcentral.com/news/top-ten-facts-you-need-to-know-about-the-e3-schumer-visas-for-irish-208986091-237592091

    The E3 initiative was first proposed for Ireland by the Irish Lobby for Immigration Reform after the failure of Kennedy/McCain immigration bill.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E-3_visa

    Fwiw the visa lottery probably reduces corruption and expense associated with government schemes.

    One reason for the lottery format, they loved lotteries in the 60s
    What’s Your Number? The Vietnam War Selective Service Lottery
    http://www.historynet.com/whats-your-number.htm

    Fwiw the visa lottery probably reduces corruption

    That is one good thing about the visa lottery. Visas are not awarded on the basis of bribing US consulate officials.

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  73. @Bleuteaux
    You ever hear any stories about the gratitude of the Nepalese people? They'll probably teach us to levitate!

    It would be prudent to keep as many Ghurkas on the Deplorable side as can be mustered. Dashed handy little chaps in a tight spot, and none too keen on being lumbered with prisoners either. Also can be implicitly trusted to keep their oaths, almost alone among orientals (apart from Japs).
    Remember to lace your boots Limey-style.

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  74. biz says:
    @Reg Cæsar

    The Republic of Congo is Little Congo...

    ...the Democratic Republic of the Congo (formerly Zaire), or Big Congo.
     
    I prefer "French Congo" and "Belgian Congo".

    ...a diversity visa lottery that lets in 50,000 lucky winners per year from obscure countries that don’t send all that many immigrants through other channels.
     
    Ah, but the diversity lottery might have been good, had it been combined with a cap on all immigrants. That way there'd be fewer Mexicans, Chinese, Indians, and whatever's next after those behemoths. (We could always make a sentimental exception for Pilipinos. They'd have a separate cap.)

    A true diversity lottery combined with a cap might not be ideal, but it would greatly retard the rising tide of color's ability to unite against us.

    Minneapolis-St Paul is about as white a metro area as Cincinnati, but the latter has one minority, and thus sees riots whenever anything goes wrong. The Twin Cities minority is split among several kinds of blacks, several kinds of Asians, several kinds of Indians-- i.e., several kinds of feathers and several kinds of dots. And yes, Hispanics, but they're split everywhere else, too.

    All we see here is the occasional wimpy protest march, usually with more whites than everyone else combined.

    Actually, there should be some fascinating sociology studying the differences between MSP and Cincinnati. Both are midwestern metro areas with roughly similar populations (although MSP is somewhat larger), but the differences in economic and cultural power, and demographic makeup, are enormous.

    MSP has a large number of Fortune 500 companies, a big R&D sector, and is actually an employment destination for young Americans. Culturally, it occupies a position in the American mind (largely thanks to Garrison Keillor, I suppose) that Cincinnati does not. Most Americans know nothing about Cincinnati, and their only experience with it is usually wondering why they are passing through the Cleveland Airport and why is it in Kentucky? Demographically, MSP is notoriously a destination for exotic arrivals such as Hmong, Somalis, Eritreans, and all sorts of others. Whereas Cincinnati is probably the most lagging metro in the country in terms of demographics, basically consisting of only whites and indigenous* blacks, with a sprinkling of suburban, assimilated East Asians and Brahmins to fill the professions.

    So why are these places so different? Cincinnati was settled by Appalachians and Germans, and MSP was settled by Germans, Irish, and Scandinavians. MSP is the only large city for several states on either side, whereas Cincinnati is not. MSP has a large, prominent university and Cincinnati does not. I’m sure other factors could be considered as well.

    * for lack of a better descriptor.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    Demographically, MSP is notoriously a destination for exotic arrivals such as Hmong, Somalis, Eritreans, and all sorts of others.
     
    Thanks to a virtue-signaling competition between Lutheran Social Services and Catholic Charities.

    Ironically (or predictably?), the Cities and outstate split dramatically on the 2012 marriage amendment, with the "exotic arrivals" the only ones in the metro who agreed with our country folk.
  75. Ed says:
    @IHTG
    Hey, your Twitter feed is top-notch, man.

    Thank you.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Opinionator
    Where can we read your Twitter? Your iSteve comments are generally excellent.
    , @Opinionator
    Ah, never mind if you are an opinionated American. I'm already familiar.
  76. SportsFan says:
    @Mike Sylwester
    In general, I agree with the criticism of this visa-lottery program, but I want to tell everyone here about my son-in-law, who won such a visa.

    Egidijus grew up in Lithuania. He is about 35 years old now and won his visa when he was about 23 years old. He has been living in the USA for about a dozen years. (These numbers are estimates.)

    His father was a farmer, and his mother was a nurse. He has one brother, who is an ambulance driver. The family lives on the outskirts of a town with a population of about 16,000. Practically no non-Lithuanians live there.

    Egidijus was about 11 years old when the Soviet Union collapsed. From a young age, he dreamed of emigrating from Lithuania to the USA.

    He had no relatives or acquaintances in the USA. He did not study English in school. The only foreign language he ever studied was Russian. He had no real prospect to even visit the USA.

    He attended a Lithuanian university and earned a degree in electrical engineering.

    Soon after he graduated, he heard about the visa lottery for the first time. He entered the lottery on a whim and won on his first try.

    He was allowed to grant a visa to one close relative. He was not married and did not even have a girlfriend, so he offered the visa to his brother. His brother had no interest in starting a new life in the USA, so Egidijus emigrated alone.

    Not knowing anyone in the USA, Egidijus settled in New Jersey because he heard that it was a place where some Lithuanians had settled. He soon became acquainted with a Lithuanian-American who owned a small electrician company and who hired him. Egidijus worked in this company and began to teach himself English.

    My wife is Lithuanian, and her son and daughter lived with us. In Lithuania, my wife was a nurse. After her husband died, she came to the USA to visit her sister, who was married to a Lithuanian-American. She and I met on December 3, 1994, and were married on January 19, 1995. At that time she did not speak any English, but she and I both speak Russian.

    My step-son was educated in Lithuania in mathematics and computer programming. He graduated soon after the Soviet Union collapsed, and an international company hired him as a cheap programmer. That company employed him in various countries and eventually stationed him in the USA.

    Because my wife married me, her daughter was allowed to immigrate legally when she was about 15 years old. I never had children of my own, and she always has been a very affectionate daughter to me. She is tall and thin, and she became a professional model as a teenager and dropped out of high school and moved to New York City. After a while, my wife and I moved from Oregon to New Jersey to be closer to her. Eventually my wife and her son and daughter and I all lived in one home in South Hackensack.

    My step-son is an extraordinarily popular person who organizes parties and activities that attract Lithuanian immigrants to our home.

    Egidijus visited our home frequently, and eventually he and my daughter fell in love. He too moved into our home, and a couple years later, he and she married. A couple years later they moved out of our home into their own home, which is only a few miles away.

    As Egidijus learned English, he started his own electrician company. He continue to work half-time for his original employer for a couple years, but eventually he quit there completely and worked only for himself.

    As a self-employed small-business owner, he works about 70 hours a week. He employs several people, most of whom are immigrants from Latin America.

    He recently bought a run-down apartment building, which he is fixing up and renting out.

    Egidijus does not involve himself in politics, but when he expresses political opinions, they place him well within the conservative range of US politics.

    Most of the Lithuanians I know -- including my wife and step-son -- are fervent supporters of Democrat politics. They hate Donald Trump, because they favor mass immigration and oppose enforcement of our immigration laws. Probably most of my Lithuanian friends came to the USA on tourist or business visas and and then gradually legalized themselves (fake marriages, married citizens, etc.) They all hate Trump, because they all think that all other Lithuanians should be able to immigrate as they themselves did.

    In contrast, Egidijus, who immigrated legally, likes Trump and opposes illegal immigration. He is an odd-ball in our local Lithuanian community. (My step-daughter, who likewise immigrated legally, is apolitical.)

    My own large family is 99% Democrats, very liberal, who hate Trump furiously. Only I and one brother are Republicans. I am one of seven children. All my many other siblings and in-laws and nephews and nieces are zealous, Trump-hating Democrats. (My parents were too, but they both died of old age in the summer of 2016. If they had lived longer, they both would have died of strokes on Election Night.)

    So, in my family I am completely surrounded by liberal, Trump-hating Democrats -- except for my one Republican brother and Egidijus.

    Your sample may be atypical. Lithuanians skew conservative and have traditionally voted Republican because of the party’s stronger anti-Soviet stance and emphasis on traditional family values. The post WWII immigrants from Lithuania were escaping the Soviets and almost certain one-way tickets to Siberian gulags. Trump may have been somewhat of an exception because of his perceived pro-Putin/pro-Russia tendencies.
    The two career paths strongly encouraged by Lithuanian parents are medical doctor or engineer. In my wife’s family every single adult going back 2 generations is an MD or a PhD.
    Working as an electrician while they establish themselves is a very typical choice for male immigrants from Lithuania. Not that they immigrate that much to the U.S. anymore; the last green card lottery was something like 150 people from Lithuania.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Mike Sylwester
    Trump may have been somewhat of an exception because of his perceived pro-Putin/pro-Russia tendencies.

    Yes, that is another reason why practically all my Lithuanian friends hate Trump. They think Trump will let Putin take over Lithuania again.
  77. Jake says:

    I don’t think Teddy Kennedy played his role in altering US immigration to bring in more Irish, for any reason. Allowing massive numbers of Third Worlders does not bring in the Irish. Even stupid Teddy knew that massive new immigration from around the globe would ruin the Irish vote.

    Teddy, far more than any of his brothers, desired to be seen as fully beloved by the old Boston Brahmins and the WASP Elites elsewhere, especially across the Ivy League. That group by the mid-1960s not only loved, LOVED the thought of elevating America’s Negroes in the face of, and at the expense of, the working class whites of Middle America. But they also were discovering how much they loved the thought of all the browns, blacks, and yellows around the globe making what they ruled a more colorful cereal bowl.

    That Teddy also desperately wished to prove that he was not the anti-Semite his daddy had been and so was going to ask how high any time a powerful Jew ordered him to jump also played a major role.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Triumph104
    I don’t think Teddy Kennedy played his role in altering US immigration to bring in more Irish, for any reason. Allowing massive numbers of Third Worlders does not bring in the Irish. Even stupid Teddy knew that massive new immigration from around the globe would ruin the Irish vote.


    Here is some history: The 1965 Immigration and Nationality Act was specifically designed to keep America white. It failed. Congressman Feighan, chairman of the House Immigration subcommittee, did not understand that whites in Eastern Europe were trapped behind the Iron Curtain and whites in Western Europe were given so many social benefits that immigration was unappealing.


    ... In 1965, the immigrant share of the population was at an all-time low. Eighty-five percent of the population was white, and 7 out of 8 immigrants were coming from Europe. By 2010, the share of the U.S. population born overseas had tripled, and 9 out of 10 immigrants were coming from outside Europe.

    ... In the end, Feighan agreed to support the reform proposal, but he insisted on a key change. Rather than giving preference to those immigrants whose skills were "especially advantageous" to the United States, Feighan insisted on prioritizing those immigrants who already had relatives in the United States, with a new preference category for adult brothers and sisters of naturalized U.S. citizens.

    http://www.npr.org/2015/10/03/445339838/the-unintended-consequences-of-the-1965-immigration-act
     

    Africa, Asia, and Latin America did not have social security nets. With the exception of places like China and Cuba, they weren't prevented from leaving their home countries.
  78. Njguy73 says:
    @Anonymous
    Willie Wonka's Golden Tickets.

    Willie Wonka’s Golden Tickets.</blockquote

    Maybe we should build a chocolate river so some fat illegals get sucked up the pipe.

    Read More
  79. Corvinus says:
    @Diversity Heretic
    I'm more and more attracted by feudal Japan, and certainly by modern Japan's immigration policy. Why does the U.S. need any more people at all!? What skills do they bring that could not be developed indigenously? What young person from heritage America in Des Moines or Lincoln didn't go to an Ivy League college because some G-d d-amned Bulgarian, whose ancestors did absolutely nothing to build the United States, is there? Does anyone seriously believe that this product of the Balkans (not worth the bones of a single Pomeranian grenadier, according to Otto von Bismarck) is so all-fired special not he is deserving of acceptance by all eight Ivy League colleges.

    I am so sick of this Cult of Immigrant Worship! The U.S. woud have been better off, and would be better off today, if the 19th Century Know Nothing program of immigration restriction had been adopted.

    “I am so sick of this Cult of Immigrant Worship! The U.S. woud have been better off, and would be better off today, if the 19th Century Know Nothing program of immigration restriction had been adopted.”

    Limited Irish, or Germans, or Italians, or Slavs, or Indians (dot, not feather), or Chinese, or Assyrian populations. Fine. You do realize out of these tens of millions of people who came here that they sired offspring who built companies from scratch, made technological innovations, and contributed in other ways to our great nation, right?

    Praytell, what is your ethnic background? Would you have been “off the list” by the Know Nothings? What makes you special? What have you contributed.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Opinionator
    You do realize out of these tens of millions of people who came here that they sired offspring who built companies from scratch, made technological innovations, and contributed in other ways to our great nation, right?

    Others here would have contributed in their place. Let's share the wealth in human capital with the rest of the world.
  80. Daniel H says:
    @Wilkey
    "So Kennedy got very few of his Irishman, but Schumer got his Bangladeshis, Nigerians and others of the now and future coalition of the aggrieved. And in the long view, I don’t think that Kennedy was to upset with this."

    Did Dead Kennedy ever once apologize for the fact that all of the immigration bills he pushed for - the visa lottery, the 1965 bill, and the 1986 amnesty - failed to live up to what he claimed they would do? Not so far as I can remember.

    One could chalk this up to the usual arrogant pride of politicians, who almost never admit or accept blame for any of their mistakes, but in Kennedy's case he kept doubling down on his "failed" policies. He was pushing for more of the same right up until the day he died.

    One could safely assume that Ted Kennedy (and others of his clan, not all of them) actually hated America and Americans. Exhibit No. 1 of the perpetually aggrieved.

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  81. Don’t be too hasty in making fun of the lottery. It’s kind of like homeopathy in 1800— stupid, but a lot better than the status quo and what all the experts were advising. You can do a lot worse than random admission of people applying for immigration.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Opinionator
    True. Random lottery is probably better than family-based.
  82. Daniel H says:
    @anonymous
    So Kennedy gets all the blame again for another immigration act in wich others actually put in the poison.

    >>So Kennedy gets all the blame again for another immigration act in wich others actually put in the poison

    Kennedy had a big hand in proposing and endorsing these acts, and when they turned truly destructive in the hands of the likes of Schumer he did nothing to oppose Schumer, in fact he continued endorsing them.

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  83. prole says:

    The immigration act of 1990 started the visa lottery program. It also increased legal immigration by 90% and created the H1b visa program….we need to thank George H. BUSH for this fiasco.

    From 1965 to 1990 legal immigration was capped at 550,000 sine 1991 we have allowed 1 million per year to immigrate to America…George Bush actively promoted this bill, and only 3 GOP Senators voted no when it was approved in December 1990.

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  84. anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @Dr. X

    So Kennedy got very few of his Irishman, but Schumer got his Bangladeshis, Nigerians and others of the now and future coalition of the aggrieved. And in the long view, I don’t think that Kennedy was to upset with this.
     
    Of course not. None of them moved to Hyannisport and put up a minaret with calls to prayer next to the Kennedy estate. And none of them set off bombs or committed any rapes on Martha's Vineyard, either.

    “…or committed any rapes on Martha’s Vineyard, either.”

    Other than Teddy Kennedy?

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  85. @Daniel H
    OT: "US admiral says Russian activity in the Mediterranean and other European seas is higher than at any time during the Cold War - and warns NATO not to be 'split and distracted' by Putin's schemes"

    Photo of said Admiral

    http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2017/04/09/18/3F1B849200000578-4395398-image-a-6_1491759046006.jpg

    All those decorations – she must be very brave!

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  86. @Harry Baldwin
    I gave up on Prairie Home Companion in the late 1990s when Keillor became such a vocal defender of Bill Clinton. Later it came out that Keillor also exercised a little droit du seigneur with his staff.

    Me too. Listened to him a lot in the 1980s and not at all for about 25 years.

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  87. @Anon

    In fiscal 2015 (the most recent year for detailed data on application countries), about 12% of the 14.4 million people who applied for the visa lottery were citizens of Ghana (1.7 million).
     
    So under open borders more than a million people would come from Ghana almost instantly? For people like Bryan Caplan this is the feature, not the bug of open borders.



    btw, have y'all seen this one over at AmRen, here's the author bio:


    The author is a well-known public intellectual who has been published and interviewed countless times in America’s most prestigious mainstream media. She feels she cannot be honest publicly about the issues discussed here.

    https://www.amren.com/features/2017/04/how-i-became-conservative-schools-iq/
     

    Amy Chua?

    Read More
  88. @Ed
    Thank you.

    Where can we read your Twitter? Your iSteve comments are generally excellent.

    Read More
  89. @Eric Rasmusen
    Don't be too hasty in making fun of the lottery. It's kind of like homeopathy in 1800--- stupid, but a lot better than the status quo and what all the experts were advising. You can do a lot worse than random admission of people applying for immigration.

    True. Random lottery is probably better than family-based.

    Read More
  90. @Corvinus
    "I am so sick of this Cult of Immigrant Worship! The U.S. woud have been better off, and would be better off today, if the 19th Century Know Nothing program of immigration restriction had been adopted."

    Limited Irish, or Germans, or Italians, or Slavs, or Indians (dot, not feather), or Chinese, or Assyrian populations. Fine. You do realize out of these tens of millions of people who came here that they sired offspring who built companies from scratch, made technological innovations, and contributed in other ways to our great nation, right?

    Praytell, what is your ethnic background? Would you have been "off the list" by the Know Nothings? What makes you special? What have you contributed.

    You do realize out of these tens of millions of people who came here that they sired offspring who built companies from scratch, made technological innovations, and contributed in other ways to our great nation, right?

    Others here would have contributed in their place. Let’s share the wealth in human capital with the rest of the world.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Corvinus
    "Others here would have contributed in their place. Let’s share the wealth in human capital with the rest of the world."

    Right, because the Andrew Carnegie's and the Henry Ford's of the world grow on trees. How can you be so sure that their contributions would have been matched by "locals"?
  91. @Ed
    Thank you.

    Ah, never mind if you are an opinionated American. I’m already familiar.

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  92. @Ryan Andrews


    The author is a well-known public intellectual who has been published and interviewed countless times in America’s most prestigious mainstream media. She feels she cannot be honest publicly about the issues discussed here.

    https://www.amren.com/features/2017/04/how-i-became-conservative-schools-iq/
     
    Good on her for speaking out, I guess, but these 'scales-falling-from-my-eyes-on-racial-differences' stories always sound kinda phony to me. Maybe the behavior of these kids was exactly as she claims. But what I don't find at all credible is that the idea of innate racial intellectual differences never even crossed her mind until a series of harrowing encounters with vibrant youths. If you live in any decent-sized American metro area, and aren't a complete dullard, this is something you pick up on just by living your life. Steve has made this point in the past, I think.

    I'm sure a lot of Leftists (and others) do honestly believe in the 100% nurture-over-nature theory, but that doesn't mean that, in their heart-of-hearts, they've closed off any possibility that they could be wrong.

    I’m sure a lot of Leftists (and others) do honestly believe in the 100% nurture-over-nature theory

    I’m not sure at all. I’ve never heard anyone talk that way about their own family members.

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  93. Keep in mind that the winners of the diversity visa lottery become U.S. citizens, and then they have the RIGHT to file immigrant visa petitions for their relatives. One approved high school graduate from Ghana leads to many family members coming over to join him, and as a high school graduate he’s likely the ambitious go-getter of the bunch. Each immigrant who comes to America brings a village with him, sooner or later.

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  94. Anon7 says:
    @fitzGetty
    ... and instant deportation after a crime is committed ... instant ...

    Good point. I’d also like to point out that there is a perfectly good process called “denaturalization” that can be used to revoke an immigrant’s citizenship, and have them deported.

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  95. @AstolfvonAlabama
    I dunno- Niven's Ringworld introduced the idea that sheer luck was in fact genetic, and could be systematically bred in order to make a very lucky person.

    More seriously, I wonder what sort of structures and personalities exist in Ghana, Uzbekistan, Little Congo etc that promote lotto participation.

    Also, if it's a lottery, why aren't they paying the 330$ first?

    I would mostly tolerate a system that estimates the total lifetime cost risk/labor replacement cost of an immigrant (and anyone they drag along) in a particular pool, collect 10x that from the pool, and select an individual from that pool. Sorry if I haven't phrased that in a coherent way.

    Lol, came here to make the same Ringworld reference. So instead of selecting for education, valuable skills, or other proxies for intelligence, we’re selecting for luck? Perhaps by advising applicants to pray really, really hard, we can determine which God answers prayers best?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Triumph104
    Stop lying. The lottery does select for education and work skills. It picks people who can delay gratification, wait their turn, and follow rules.
  96. @E. Harding
    I actually don't have a problem with this, as long as it's limited. Serves as a natural experiment in many ways.

    Certainly. An experiment in genetic devolution.

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  97. @Anonymous
    Trump's will fix very little that is wrong about our immigration system. He just appointed an Obama crook to head Border Patrol. He just nominated an open borders neocon to head his Council of Economic Advisors.

    The Wall is for suckers. It will take many years and end up piecemeal. Later presidents will undermine it completely. Winning!

    All he has to do is workplace enforcement. But Trump didn't talk about that at his rallies. Because it would send all illegals home!

    Mexican peso has recovered btw because speculators now understand that the number of deportations will be tiny and the Uniparty status quo is here to stay...

    Maybe there is all kinds of behind-the-scenes action taking place, but I am mighty unimpressed with Trump’s apparently only tepid action in addressing the immigration tsunami drowning our nation. I hear that some border crossings are down, I hear there have been some deportations. If I have a leaky roof, that is like learning the forecast for 2″ a rain a day for the next week is now for 1.9″ a day for the next week. Kind of hard to tell in my neighborhood or my doctor’s office, we are still drowning in Latin America norte and everything else.

    We have a zillion H-1B, H-2B, diversity, double secret reverse probation, refugee ad nauseum programs for allowing more more more people into the nation, and just futzing around the edges won’t do a damned thing to give us real relief. If Trump wants to show that he is behind the American people and can take the heat and make tough decisions, how about pushing for a moratorium on immigration? What is he waiting for? One of these days he is going to have been in office for 6 months and won’t have a damned thing to show for it on immigration policy. I voted for him and sent him $$ and I feel like I have been ripped off. The Syria missile nonsense last week took the cake. Shooting missiles into Syria is not going to do one damned thing to bring back jobs or get immigration under control. How about stopping immigration and getting the jobs machine rolling FIRST, then going off and playing war games. Isn’t that what we were told was going to happen? I ain’t voting for Trump again at this rate, might as well vote for Luis Gutierrez and have it out. Trump has done some good things but he increasingly is looking like the same old same old bushclintonobama.

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  98. @Critical Eye
    Lol, came here to make the same Ringworld reference. So instead of selecting for education, valuable skills, or other proxies for intelligence, we're selecting for luck? Perhaps by advising applicants to pray really, really hard, we can determine which God answers prayers best?

    Stop lying. The lottery does select for education and work skills. It picks people who can delay gratification, wait their turn, and follow rules.

    Read More
  99. Moshe says:
    @Mike Sylwester
    In general, I agree with the criticism of this visa-lottery program, but I want to tell everyone here about my son-in-law, who won such a visa.

    Egidijus grew up in Lithuania. He is about 35 years old now and won his visa when he was about 23 years old. He has been living in the USA for about a dozen years. (These numbers are estimates.)

    His father was a farmer, and his mother was a nurse. He has one brother, who is an ambulance driver. The family lives on the outskirts of a town with a population of about 16,000. Practically no non-Lithuanians live there.

    Egidijus was about 11 years old when the Soviet Union collapsed. From a young age, he dreamed of emigrating from Lithuania to the USA.

    He had no relatives or acquaintances in the USA. He did not study English in school. The only foreign language he ever studied was Russian. He had no real prospect to even visit the USA.

    He attended a Lithuanian university and earned a degree in electrical engineering.

    Soon after he graduated, he heard about the visa lottery for the first time. He entered the lottery on a whim and won on his first try.

    He was allowed to grant a visa to one close relative. He was not married and did not even have a girlfriend, so he offered the visa to his brother. His brother had no interest in starting a new life in the USA, so Egidijus emigrated alone.

    Not knowing anyone in the USA, Egidijus settled in New Jersey because he heard that it was a place where some Lithuanians had settled. He soon became acquainted with a Lithuanian-American who owned a small electrician company and who hired him. Egidijus worked in this company and began to teach himself English.

    My wife is Lithuanian, and her son and daughter lived with us. In Lithuania, my wife was a nurse. After her husband died, she came to the USA to visit her sister, who was married to a Lithuanian-American. She and I met on December 3, 1994, and were married on January 19, 1995. At that time she did not speak any English, but she and I both speak Russian.

    My step-son was educated in Lithuania in mathematics and computer programming. He graduated soon after the Soviet Union collapsed, and an international company hired him as a cheap programmer. That company employed him in various countries and eventually stationed him in the USA.

    Because my wife married me, her daughter was allowed to immigrate legally when she was about 15 years old. I never had children of my own, and she always has been a very affectionate daughter to me. She is tall and thin, and she became a professional model as a teenager and dropped out of high school and moved to New York City. After a while, my wife and I moved from Oregon to New Jersey to be closer to her. Eventually my wife and her son and daughter and I all lived in one home in South Hackensack.

    My step-son is an extraordinarily popular person who organizes parties and activities that attract Lithuanian immigrants to our home.

    Egidijus visited our home frequently, and eventually he and my daughter fell in love. He too moved into our home, and a couple years later, he and she married. A couple years later they moved out of our home into their own home, which is only a few miles away.

    As Egidijus learned English, he started his own electrician company. He continue to work half-time for his original employer for a couple years, but eventually he quit there completely and worked only for himself.

    As a self-employed small-business owner, he works about 70 hours a week. He employs several people, most of whom are immigrants from Latin America.

    He recently bought a run-down apartment building, which he is fixing up and renting out.

    Egidijus does not involve himself in politics, but when he expresses political opinions, they place him well within the conservative range of US politics.

    Most of the Lithuanians I know -- including my wife and step-son -- are fervent supporters of Democrat politics. They hate Donald Trump, because they favor mass immigration and oppose enforcement of our immigration laws. Probably most of my Lithuanian friends came to the USA on tourist or business visas and and then gradually legalized themselves (fake marriages, married citizens, etc.) They all hate Trump, because they all think that all other Lithuanians should be able to immigrate as they themselves did.

    In contrast, Egidijus, who immigrated legally, likes Trump and opposes illegal immigration. He is an odd-ball in our local Lithuanian community. (My step-daughter, who likewise immigrated legally, is apolitical.)

    My own large family is 99% Democrats, very liberal, who hate Trump furiously. Only I and one brother are Republicans. I am one of seven children. All my many other siblings and in-laws and nephews and nieces are zealous, Trump-hating Democrats. (My parents were too, but they both died of old age in the summer of 2016. If they had lived longer, they both would have died of strokes on Election Night.)

    So, in my family I am completely surrounded by liberal, Trump-hating Democrats -- except for my one Republican brother and Egidijus.

    That was the funniest thing I ever read!

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  100. @DPG
    Because people with a high school education have been doing so well the last few decades, right?

    Your evidence for the success of the program consists of one anecdote.

    I gave more than one anecdote as opposed to the zero you give to back up your position. You are so ignorant about the world that you think it is easy for someone from a third world country to get a high school education or relevant job skills. Smug and ignorant.

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  101. @Diversity Heretic
    I'm more and more attracted by feudal Japan, and certainly by modern Japan's immigration policy. Why does the U.S. need any more people at all!? What skills do they bring that could not be developed indigenously? What young person from heritage America in Des Moines or Lincoln didn't go to an Ivy League college because some G-d d-amned Bulgarian, whose ancestors did absolutely nothing to build the United States, is there? Does anyone seriously believe that this product of the Balkans (not worth the bones of a single Pomeranian grenadier, according to Otto von Bismarck) is so all-fired special not he is deserving of acceptance by all eight Ivy League colleges.

    I am so sick of this Cult of Immigrant Worship! The U.S. woud have been better off, and would be better off today, if the 19th Century Know Nothing program of immigration restriction had been adopted.

    Yeah, that’s rich coming from someone who has a president whose mother, paternal grandfather, first wife, and third wife — current first lady of the US — are ALL immigrants. Believe me immigration is just fine with you as long as you believe it will benefit you and yours.

    Speaking as the descendant of US slaves, they could have shut all of you out after 1807. Immigration was never a problem when whites were stomping on blacks.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Opinionator
    Nothing you've written in this comment is inconsistent with his assertion that the country would have been better off with 19th Century restrictionism.
    , @anon
    Believe me immigration is just fine with you as long as you believe it will benefit you and yours.

    Well... right. If he thought immigration would benefit him, he'd be for it. He just doesn't think it does.

    What SHOULD he base his opinion of immigration on?
  102. @Wilkey
    "So Kennedy got very few of his Irishman, but Schumer got his Bangladeshis, Nigerians and others of the now and future coalition of the aggrieved. And in the long view, I don’t think that Kennedy was to upset with this."

    Did Dead Kennedy ever once apologize for the fact that all of the immigration bills he pushed for - the visa lottery, the 1965 bill, and the 1986 amnesty - failed to live up to what he claimed they would do? Not so far as I can remember.

    One could chalk this up to the usual arrogant pride of politicians, who almost never admit or accept blame for any of their mistakes, but in Kennedy's case he kept doubling down on his "failed" policies. He was pushing for more of the same right up until the day he died.

    Did Dead Kennedy ever once apologize for the fact that all of the immigration bills he pushed for

    And an immigrant blew a hole in the head of Kennedy’s brother in 1968.

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  103. @Jake
    I don't think Teddy Kennedy played his role in altering US immigration to bring in more Irish, for any reason. Allowing massive numbers of Third Worlders does not bring in the Irish. Even stupid Teddy knew that massive new immigration from around the globe would ruin the Irish vote.

    Teddy, far more than any of his brothers, desired to be seen as fully beloved by the old Boston Brahmins and the WASP Elites elsewhere, especially across the Ivy League. That group by the mid-1960s not only loved, LOVED the thought of elevating America's Negroes in the face of, and at the expense of, the working class whites of Middle America. But they also were discovering how much they loved the thought of all the browns, blacks, and yellows around the globe making what they ruled a more colorful cereal bowl.

    That Teddy also desperately wished to prove that he was not the anti-Semite his daddy had been and so was going to ask how high any time a powerful Jew ordered him to jump also played a major role.

    I don’t think Teddy Kennedy played his role in altering US immigration to bring in more Irish, for any reason. Allowing massive numbers of Third Worlders does not bring in the Irish. Even stupid Teddy knew that massive new immigration from around the globe would ruin the Irish vote.

    Here is some history: The 1965 Immigration and Nationality Act was specifically designed to keep America white. It failed. Congressman Feighan, chairman of the House Immigration subcommittee, did not understand that whites in Eastern Europe were trapped behind the Iron Curtain and whites in Western Europe were given so many social benefits that immigration was unappealing.

    … In 1965, the immigrant share of the population was at an all-time low. Eighty-five percent of the population was white, and 7 out of 8 immigrants were coming from Europe. By 2010, the share of the U.S. population born overseas had tripled, and 9 out of 10 immigrants were coming from outside Europe.

    … In the end, Feighan agreed to support the reform proposal, but he insisted on a key change. Rather than giving preference to those immigrants whose skills were “especially advantageous” to the United States, Feighan insisted on prioritizing those immigrants who already had relatives in the United States, with a new preference category for adult brothers and sisters of naturalized U.S. citizens.

    http://www.npr.org/2015/10/03/445339838/the-unintended-consequences-of-the-1965-immigration-act

    Africa, Asia, and Latin America did not have social security nets. With the exception of places like China and Cuba, they weren’t prevented from leaving their home countries.

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  104. @Triumph104
    Yeah, that's rich coming from someone who has a president whose mother, paternal grandfather, first wife, and third wife -- current first lady of the US -- are ALL immigrants. Believe me immigration is just fine with you as long as you believe it will benefit you and yours.

    Speaking as the descendant of US slaves, they could have shut all of you out after 1807. Immigration was never a problem when whites were stomping on blacks.

    Nothing you’ve written in this comment is inconsistent with his assertion that the country would have been better off with 19th Century restrictionism.

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  105. @biz
    Actually, there should be some fascinating sociology studying the differences between MSP and Cincinnati. Both are midwestern metro areas with roughly similar populations (although MSP is somewhat larger), but the differences in economic and cultural power, and demographic makeup, are enormous.

    MSP has a large number of Fortune 500 companies, a big R&D sector, and is actually an employment destination for young Americans. Culturally, it occupies a position in the American mind (largely thanks to Garrison Keillor, I suppose) that Cincinnati does not. Most Americans know nothing about Cincinnati, and their only experience with it is usually wondering why they are passing through the Cleveland Airport and why is it in Kentucky? Demographically, MSP is notoriously a destination for exotic arrivals such as Hmong, Somalis, Eritreans, and all sorts of others. Whereas Cincinnati is probably the most lagging metro in the country in terms of demographics, basically consisting of only whites and indigenous* blacks, with a sprinkling of suburban, assimilated East Asians and Brahmins to fill the professions.

    So why are these places so different? Cincinnati was settled by Appalachians and Germans, and MSP was settled by Germans, Irish, and Scandinavians. MSP is the only large city for several states on either side, whereas Cincinnati is not. MSP has a large, prominent university and Cincinnati does not. I'm sure other factors could be considered as well.

    * for lack of a better descriptor.

    Demographically, MSP is notoriously a destination for exotic arrivals such as Hmong, Somalis, Eritreans, and all sorts of others.

    Thanks to a virtue-signaling competition between Lutheran Social Services and Catholic Charities.

    Ironically (or predictably?), the Cities and outstate split dramatically on the 2012 marriage amendment, with the “exotic arrivals” the only ones in the metro who agreed with our country folk.

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    • Replies: @Ivy
    Those Lutherans just can't help themselves. Look at communities around the upper mid-west where they helped the locals adjust to diversity. Their efforts destroyed community cohesion, gee, almost as if by design. Inner cities and suburbs bore the brunt of those misguided attempts at social engineering, and those areas have been paying for all that free help for decades.
  106. Olorin says:
    @Anon7
    Why is President Trump wasting our time? Immigration, immigration, immigration. Fix it, which in my case means everyone not a citizen has to leave, no legal immigration unless some overwhelming advantage can be cited on a case-by-case basis and suitable border security.

    Tick tock, Mr. Trump. You want another term, that's what you need to do.

    You’re so right!

    70 days as President, and he hasn’t done everything yet!

    He must be a vast failure!

    Maybe on day 100 he can order CDC to cure the electorate’s pandemic of Verucasaltitis.

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  107. The immigration policies of some Western European countries are so batshit insane that selecting immigrants at random would be an improvement.

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  108. Corvinus says:
    @Opinionator
    You do realize out of these tens of millions of people who came here that they sired offspring who built companies from scratch, made technological innovations, and contributed in other ways to our great nation, right?

    Others here would have contributed in their place. Let's share the wealth in human capital with the rest of the world.

    “Others here would have contributed in their place. Let’s share the wealth in human capital with the rest of the world.”

    Right, because the Andrew Carnegie’s and the Henry Ford’s of the world grow on trees. How can you be so sure that their contributions would have been matched by “locals”?

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    • Replies: @Opinionator
    I didn't say "matched" necessarily. But there would have been sufficient talent to create a perfectly healthy and prosperous society, given that population's historical track record and the natural abundance in the United Stated. Also, there is this illusion people have that removing someone renown or in charge will leave a vaccuum. When in fact you may go from a 10 to a 9 or an 8, not to a zero. We can live with that.

    And sometimes you get an improvement. See Lou Gehrig. Who knows, someone may have come along and done better than Ford and Carnegie. They in effect occupied the field for awhile.
  109. Ivy says:
    @Reg Cæsar

    Demographically, MSP is notoriously a destination for exotic arrivals such as Hmong, Somalis, Eritreans, and all sorts of others.
     
    Thanks to a virtue-signaling competition between Lutheran Social Services and Catholic Charities.

    Ironically (or predictably?), the Cities and outstate split dramatically on the 2012 marriage amendment, with the "exotic arrivals" the only ones in the metro who agreed with our country folk.

    Those Lutherans just can’t help themselves. Look at communities around the upper mid-west where they helped the locals adjust to diversity. Their efforts destroyed community cohesion, gee, almost as if by design. Inner cities and suburbs bore the brunt of those misguided attempts at social engineering, and those areas have been paying for all that free help for decades.

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    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    Those Lutherans just can’t help themselves.
     
    Do the Lutherans send their refugees to Lutheran areas, or to Catholic areas, like St Cloud and St Paul?

    And where do Catholic Charities send theirs?
  110. @Corvinus
    "Others here would have contributed in their place. Let’s share the wealth in human capital with the rest of the world."

    Right, because the Andrew Carnegie's and the Henry Ford's of the world grow on trees. How can you be so sure that their contributions would have been matched by "locals"?

    I didn’t say “matched” necessarily. But there would have been sufficient talent to create a perfectly healthy and prosperous society, given that population’s historical track record and the natural abundance in the United Stated. Also, there is this illusion people have that removing someone renown or in charge will leave a vaccuum. When in fact you may go from a 10 to a 9 or an 8, not to a zero. We can live with that.

    And sometimes you get an improvement. See Lou Gehrig. Who knows, someone may have come along and done better than Ford and Carnegie. They in effect occupied the field for awhile.

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    • Replies: @Corvinus
    "I didn’t say “matched” necessarily. But there would have been sufficient talent to create a perfectly healthy and prosperous society, given that population’s historical track record and the natural abundance in the United Stated."

    You make a mighty big assumption that America would have achieved its intellectual and industrial might without the backbreaking labor and technical prowess of the Irish, Germans, Slavs, and Italians, that the WASPS who formed the Know Nothing Party would have filled that tremendous void with "sufficient talent". Exactly why those immigrants came here to create start up companies or work in the factories. The fact of the matter is that our nation heavily depended upon those tens of millions who came here to demonstrate their ingenuity.

    "Also, there is this illusion people have that removing someone renown or in charge will leave a vaccuum."

    There is no illusion here. Tremendous talents would not have been cultivated here; rather, their innovations would have made their home nations prosper.

    "When in fact you may go from a 10 to a 9 or an 8, not to a zero. We can live with that."

    Who is this "we"? Again, you assume that the native population (which, by the way, who is this particular group, you do not define it) would have simply and eventually "found its way" technologically in the absence of immigrant skill.

    "Who knows, someone may have come along and done better than Ford and Carnegie."

    Key phrase, "may have come along". Furthermore, these titans built the foundation for our country for generations. Do you really believe America would have been "better off" waiting for, say a WASP, of their caliber to develop steel mills or automobiles?

    "And sometimes you get an improvement. See Lou Gehrig."

    He was a German who would have never been here had the Know Nothings had their way!
    Please, stop embarrassing yourself.
  111. @Buck Turgidson
    Maybe there is all kinds of behind-the-scenes action taking place, but I am mighty unimpressed with Trump's apparently only tepid action in addressing the immigration tsunami drowning our nation. I hear that some border crossings are down, I hear there have been some deportations. If I have a leaky roof, that is like learning the forecast for 2" a rain a day for the next week is now for 1.9" a day for the next week. Kind of hard to tell in my neighborhood or my doctor's office, we are still drowning in Latin America norte and everything else.

    We have a zillion H-1B, H-2B, diversity, double secret reverse probation, refugee ad nauseum programs for allowing more more more people into the nation, and just futzing around the edges won't do a damned thing to give us real relief. If Trump wants to show that he is behind the American people and can take the heat and make tough decisions, how about pushing for a moratorium on immigration? What is he waiting for? One of these days he is going to have been in office for 6 months and won't have a damned thing to show for it on immigration policy. I voted for him and sent him $$ and I feel like I have been ripped off. The Syria missile nonsense last week took the cake. Shooting missiles into Syria is not going to do one damned thing to bring back jobs or get immigration under control. How about stopping immigration and getting the jobs machine rolling FIRST, then going off and playing war games. Isn't that what we were told was going to happen? I ain't voting for Trump again at this rate, might as well vote for Luis Gutierrez and have it out. Trump has done some good things but he increasingly is looking like the same old same old bushclintonobama.

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  112. 50,000 visas and 19 million applicants. Hmm???? What to do? Auction the slots! That’s how Milton Friedman would clear the market! How much might these visas sell for? My guess is: $100,000 to $250,000 each! Wow. Uncle Sam could get at least $5 billion a year for these visas. Maybe more.

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  113. anon says: • Disclaimer
    @Triumph104
    Yeah, that's rich coming from someone who has a president whose mother, paternal grandfather, first wife, and third wife -- current first lady of the US -- are ALL immigrants. Believe me immigration is just fine with you as long as you believe it will benefit you and yours.

    Speaking as the descendant of US slaves, they could have shut all of you out after 1807. Immigration was never a problem when whites were stomping on blacks.

    Believe me immigration is just fine with you as long as you believe it will benefit you and yours.

    Well… right. If he thought immigration would benefit him, he’d be for it. He just doesn’t think it does.

    What SHOULD he base his opinion of immigration on?

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  114. @Mike Sylwester
    In general, I agree with the criticism of this visa-lottery program, but I want to tell everyone here about my son-in-law, who won such a visa.

    Egidijus grew up in Lithuania. He is about 35 years old now and won his visa when he was about 23 years old. He has been living in the USA for about a dozen years. (These numbers are estimates.)

    His father was a farmer, and his mother was a nurse. He has one brother, who is an ambulance driver. The family lives on the outskirts of a town with a population of about 16,000. Practically no non-Lithuanians live there.

    Egidijus was about 11 years old when the Soviet Union collapsed. From a young age, he dreamed of emigrating from Lithuania to the USA.

    He had no relatives or acquaintances in the USA. He did not study English in school. The only foreign language he ever studied was Russian. He had no real prospect to even visit the USA.

    He attended a Lithuanian university and earned a degree in electrical engineering.

    Soon after he graduated, he heard about the visa lottery for the first time. He entered the lottery on a whim and won on his first try.

    He was allowed to grant a visa to one close relative. He was not married and did not even have a girlfriend, so he offered the visa to his brother. His brother had no interest in starting a new life in the USA, so Egidijus emigrated alone.

    Not knowing anyone in the USA, Egidijus settled in New Jersey because he heard that it was a place where some Lithuanians had settled. He soon became acquainted with a Lithuanian-American who owned a small electrician company and who hired him. Egidijus worked in this company and began to teach himself English.

    My wife is Lithuanian, and her son and daughter lived with us. In Lithuania, my wife was a nurse. After her husband died, she came to the USA to visit her sister, who was married to a Lithuanian-American. She and I met on December 3, 1994, and were married on January 19, 1995. At that time she did not speak any English, but she and I both speak Russian.

    My step-son was educated in Lithuania in mathematics and computer programming. He graduated soon after the Soviet Union collapsed, and an international company hired him as a cheap programmer. That company employed him in various countries and eventually stationed him in the USA.

    Because my wife married me, her daughter was allowed to immigrate legally when she was about 15 years old. I never had children of my own, and she always has been a very affectionate daughter to me. She is tall and thin, and she became a professional model as a teenager and dropped out of high school and moved to New York City. After a while, my wife and I moved from Oregon to New Jersey to be closer to her. Eventually my wife and her son and daughter and I all lived in one home in South Hackensack.

    My step-son is an extraordinarily popular person who organizes parties and activities that attract Lithuanian immigrants to our home.

    Egidijus visited our home frequently, and eventually he and my daughter fell in love. He too moved into our home, and a couple years later, he and she married. A couple years later they moved out of our home into their own home, which is only a few miles away.

    As Egidijus learned English, he started his own electrician company. He continue to work half-time for his original employer for a couple years, but eventually he quit there completely and worked only for himself.

    As a self-employed small-business owner, he works about 70 hours a week. He employs several people, most of whom are immigrants from Latin America.

    He recently bought a run-down apartment building, which he is fixing up and renting out.

    Egidijus does not involve himself in politics, but when he expresses political opinions, they place him well within the conservative range of US politics.

    Most of the Lithuanians I know -- including my wife and step-son -- are fervent supporters of Democrat politics. They hate Donald Trump, because they favor mass immigration and oppose enforcement of our immigration laws. Probably most of my Lithuanian friends came to the USA on tourist or business visas and and then gradually legalized themselves (fake marriages, married citizens, etc.) They all hate Trump, because they all think that all other Lithuanians should be able to immigrate as they themselves did.

    In contrast, Egidijus, who immigrated legally, likes Trump and opposes illegal immigration. He is an odd-ball in our local Lithuanian community. (My step-daughter, who likewise immigrated legally, is apolitical.)

    My own large family is 99% Democrats, very liberal, who hate Trump furiously. Only I and one brother are Republicans. I am one of seven children. All my many other siblings and in-laws and nephews and nieces are zealous, Trump-hating Democrats. (My parents were too, but they both died of old age in the summer of 2016. If they had lived longer, they both would have died of strokes on Election Night.)

    So, in my family I am completely surrounded by liberal, Trump-hating Democrats -- except for my one Republican brother and Egidijus.

    She and I met on December 3, 1994, and were married on January 19, 1995.

    What explains the relatively short time between meeting and marriage? I do not think there is anything wrong with that–perhaps it is even a good thing–but it is unusual. I would love to hear the story.

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    • Replies: @Mike Sylwester

    What explains the relatively short time between meeting and marriage?
     
    My wife's name is Zosia.

    Zosia's sister had met a Lithuanian-American in Lithuania, married him, and moved with him to the USA. There the sister earned rather good money cleaning homes for wealthy families.

    For a long time, the sister invited Zosia to visit her in the USA for six months, promising to set her up in house-cleaning jobs. Zosia kept turning down the invitations, because she was married and had a teenage daughter.

    However, Zosia' husband died unexpectedly in an accident, and so she decided to accept her sister's invitation. Zosia obtained a six-month visa and came to the USA and went to work cleaning homes. She was able to extend her visa another six months because one of the home owners, a doctor, signed a paper that he was treating her for migraine headaches.

    Meanwhile, I was divorced and working as a translator in the same company that employed the Lithuanian-American. Mutual friends introduced Zosia and me, and we liked each other. By this time, however, her year in the USA was approaching its end. We were in December, and her visa expired in March.

    So, if we were going to get married, we had to do it quickly. We married in mid-January so that we would have time to make good progress in applying for a green card before her visa expired in March.

    It looked like it might be a fake marriage for the sole purpose of her getting a green card, but we really did love each other. The fact that I had been a USAF officer for 14 years helped convince the decision-maker to give her the green card.

    I felt kind of conflicted in this situation, because I generally disapprove of Americans marrying foreigners so that the foreign spouses obtain green cards. I still feel that way. However, I made a selfish exception for myself because I was so interested in learning foreign languages. One of Zosia's attractions for me was the opportunity to live with a Russian-speaker. (Her native language is Lithuanian, but she grew up in a Russian neighborhood and speaks Russian fluently.)

    Ironically, though, living with her has not helped my Russian language ability much. I have not worked on improving my Russian. She has learned to speak English to only a fair ability, and we speak a Russian-English mish-mash with each other.

    I have begun learning Lithuanian a couple times and have gone through textbooks, but I don't keep up the effort. If I had persisted, I would speak Lithuanian well, because I am surrounded by Lithuanians.

    When I was young, I was very energetic about trying to master foreign languages, but I have lost that drive as I have grown old.

  115. Corvinus says:
    @Opinionator
    I didn't say "matched" necessarily. But there would have been sufficient talent to create a perfectly healthy and prosperous society, given that population's historical track record and the natural abundance in the United Stated. Also, there is this illusion people have that removing someone renown or in charge will leave a vaccuum. When in fact you may go from a 10 to a 9 or an 8, not to a zero. We can live with that.

    And sometimes you get an improvement. See Lou Gehrig. Who knows, someone may have come along and done better than Ford and Carnegie. They in effect occupied the field for awhile.

    “I didn’t say “matched” necessarily. But there would have been sufficient talent to create a perfectly healthy and prosperous society, given that population’s historical track record and the natural abundance in the United Stated.”

    You make a mighty big assumption that America would have achieved its intellectual and industrial might without the backbreaking labor and technical prowess of the Irish, Germans, Slavs, and Italians, that the WASPS who formed the Know Nothing Party would have filled that tremendous void with “sufficient talent”. Exactly why those immigrants came here to create start up companies or work in the factories. The fact of the matter is that our nation heavily depended upon those tens of millions who came here to demonstrate their ingenuity.

    “Also, there is this illusion people have that removing someone renown or in charge will leave a vaccuum.”

    There is no illusion here. Tremendous talents would not have been cultivated here; rather, their innovations would have made their home nations prosper.

    “When in fact you may go from a 10 to a 9 or an 8, not to a zero. We can live with that.”

    Who is this “we”? Again, you assume that the native population (which, by the way, who is this particular group, you do not define it) would have simply and eventually “found its way” technologically in the absence of immigrant skill.

    “Who knows, someone may have come along and done better than Ford and Carnegie.”

    Key phrase, “may have come along”. Furthermore, these titans built the foundation for our country for generations. Do you really believe America would have been “better off” waiting for, say a WASP, of their caliber to develop steel mills or automobiles?

    “And sometimes you get an improvement. See Lou Gehrig.”

    He was a German who would have never been here had the Know Nothings had their way!
    Please, stop embarrassing yourself.

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    • Replies: @anon
    You make a mighty big assumption that America would have achieved its intellectual and industrial might without the backbreaking labor and technical prowess of the Irish,

    The technical prowess of the Irish didn't do a whole lot for Ireland.

    the WASPS who formed the Know Nothing Party would have filled that tremendous void with “sufficient talent”. Exactly why those immigrants came here to create start up companies or work in the factories.

    No offense to factory workers, but working in a factory isn't typically considered a "talent".

    The fact of the matter is that our nation heavily depended upon those tens of millions who came here to demonstrate their ingenuity.

    You really think tens of millions of people showed ingenuity? What percentage of them held patents? Like 0.1? Give me a break.

    Do you really believe America would have been “better off” waiting for, say a WASP, of their caliber to develop steel mills or automobiles?

    The automobile WASN'T invented in the US, so I suppose we'd be just about as well off as we are now.

    I don't know if you know this, but just because something is invented in one country doesn't mean people in other countries can't then go on to make them. Look at Japan.

    He was a German who would have never been here had the Know Nothings had their way!

    Apart from the fact that Germans have been here since before the US was a country, he was just a baseball player.

    , @Opinionator
    Nah, we would have been fine. We were fine before the 1850s and we would have been fine after. If the immigrants were so talented, they would have stayed in their home countries and innovated there.

    There was no "void" to fill, either. Just a lot of natural beauty, resources, and wildlife that would have remained unmolested for a lot longer.

    Without the immigration surge in the 19th Century, probably there would have been no Civil War. If there was, the South probably would have fought to a standoff and achieved independence. Conflicts with the Amerindians would probably have been far milder.

    If the South had won its independence, or absent the population surge from Europe, the United States probably wouldn't have exacerbated World War I and caused WW II.

    Most importantly, no WWII, no Holocaust.
  116. @SportsFan
    Your sample may be atypical. Lithuanians skew conservative and have traditionally voted Republican because of the party's stronger anti-Soviet stance and emphasis on traditional family values. The post WWII immigrants from Lithuania were escaping the Soviets and almost certain one-way tickets to Siberian gulags. Trump may have been somewhat of an exception because of his perceived pro-Putin/pro-Russia tendencies.
    The two career paths strongly encouraged by Lithuanian parents are medical doctor or engineer. In my wife's family every single adult going back 2 generations is an MD or a PhD.
    Working as an electrician while they establish themselves is a very typical choice for male immigrants from Lithuania. Not that they immigrate that much to the U.S. anymore; the last green card lottery was something like 150 people from Lithuania.

    Trump may have been somewhat of an exception because of his perceived pro-Putin/pro-Russia tendencies.

    Yes, that is another reason why practically all my Lithuanian friends hate Trump. They think Trump will let Putin take over Lithuania again.

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  117. anon says: • Disclaimer
    @Corvinus
    "I didn’t say “matched” necessarily. But there would have been sufficient talent to create a perfectly healthy and prosperous society, given that population’s historical track record and the natural abundance in the United Stated."

    You make a mighty big assumption that America would have achieved its intellectual and industrial might without the backbreaking labor and technical prowess of the Irish, Germans, Slavs, and Italians, that the WASPS who formed the Know Nothing Party would have filled that tremendous void with "sufficient talent". Exactly why those immigrants came here to create start up companies or work in the factories. The fact of the matter is that our nation heavily depended upon those tens of millions who came here to demonstrate their ingenuity.

    "Also, there is this illusion people have that removing someone renown or in charge will leave a vaccuum."

    There is no illusion here. Tremendous talents would not have been cultivated here; rather, their innovations would have made their home nations prosper.

    "When in fact you may go from a 10 to a 9 or an 8, not to a zero. We can live with that."

    Who is this "we"? Again, you assume that the native population (which, by the way, who is this particular group, you do not define it) would have simply and eventually "found its way" technologically in the absence of immigrant skill.

    "Who knows, someone may have come along and done better than Ford and Carnegie."

    Key phrase, "may have come along". Furthermore, these titans built the foundation for our country for generations. Do you really believe America would have been "better off" waiting for, say a WASP, of their caliber to develop steel mills or automobiles?

    "And sometimes you get an improvement. See Lou Gehrig."

    He was a German who would have never been here had the Know Nothings had their way!
    Please, stop embarrassing yourself.

    You make a mighty big assumption that America would have achieved its intellectual and industrial might without the backbreaking labor and technical prowess of the Irish,

    The technical prowess of the Irish didn’t do a whole lot for Ireland.

    the WASPS who formed the Know Nothing Party would have filled that tremendous void with “sufficient talent”. Exactly why those immigrants came here to create start up companies or work in the factories.

    No offense to factory workers, but working in a factory isn’t typically considered a “talent”.

    The fact of the matter is that our nation heavily depended upon those tens of millions who came here to demonstrate their ingenuity.

    You really think tens of millions of people showed ingenuity? What percentage of them held patents? Like 0.1? Give me a break.

    Do you really believe America would have been “better off” waiting for, say a WASP, of their caliber to develop steel mills or automobiles?

    The automobile WASN’T invented in the US, so I suppose we’d be just about as well off as we are now.

    I don’t know if you know this, but just because something is invented in one country doesn’t mean people in other countries can’t then go on to make them. Look at Japan.

    He was a German who would have never been here had the Know Nothings had their way!

    Apart from the fact that Germans have been here since before the US was a country, he was just a baseball player.

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    • Replies: @Corvinus
    "The technical prowess of the Irish didn’t do a whole lot for Ireland."

    Refer to Boyle's law, the Beaufort scale, the induction coil, and the "kyanising process" for starters. How dare you impugn your fellow whites.

    "You really think tens of millions of people showed ingenuity? What percentage of them held patents? Like 0.1? Give me a break."

    Holding a patent is one such endeavor that shows ingenuity. So does being a successful farmer or entrepreneur. So does a person working in a company that demonstrates ways to save money or bring in new customers.

    "The automobile WASN’T invented in the US, so I suppose we’d be just about as well off as we are now."

    What a short-sighted comment. The automobile industry stimulated multiple areas of our economy, from glass to steel to rubber to service-orientated positions.

    "I don’t know if you know this, but just because something is invented in one country doesn’t mean people in other countries can’t then go on to make them. Look at Japan."

    I don't know if you know this, but when something is invented in one country, more than likely the people who created it want it to stay in their host nation so they can initially profit from it.
    OR, the person does not want to share it because it offers their country some sort of advantage.
  118. @Opinionator
    She and I met on December 3, 1994, and were married on January 19, 1995.

    What explains the relatively short time between meeting and marriage? I do not think there is anything wrong with that--perhaps it is even a good thing--but it is unusual. I would love to hear the story.

    What explains the relatively short time between meeting and marriage?

    My wife’s name is Zosia.

    Zosia’s sister had met a Lithuanian-American in Lithuania, married him, and moved with him to the USA. There the sister earned rather good money cleaning homes for wealthy families.

    For a long time, the sister invited Zosia to visit her in the USA for six months, promising to set her up in house-cleaning jobs. Zosia kept turning down the invitations, because she was married and had a teenage daughter.

    However, Zosia’ husband died unexpectedly in an accident, and so she decided to accept her sister’s invitation. Zosia obtained a six-month visa and came to the USA and went to work cleaning homes. She was able to extend her visa another six months because one of the home owners, a doctor, signed a paper that he was treating her for migraine headaches.

    Meanwhile, I was divorced and working as a translator in the same company that employed the Lithuanian-American. Mutual friends introduced Zosia and me, and we liked each other. By this time, however, her year in the USA was approaching its end. We were in December, and her visa expired in March.

    So, if we were going to get married, we had to do it quickly. We married in mid-January so that we would have time to make good progress in applying for a green card before her visa expired in March.

    It looked like it might be a fake marriage for the sole purpose of her getting a green card, but we really did love each other. The fact that I had been a USAF officer for 14 years helped convince the decision-maker to give her the green card.

    I felt kind of conflicted in this situation, because I generally disapprove of Americans marrying foreigners so that the foreign spouses obtain green cards. I still feel that way. However, I made a selfish exception for myself because I was so interested in learning foreign languages. One of Zosia’s attractions for me was the opportunity to live with a Russian-speaker. (Her native language is Lithuanian, but she grew up in a Russian neighborhood and speaks Russian fluently.)

    Ironically, though, living with her has not helped my Russian language ability much. I have not worked on improving my Russian. She has learned to speak English to only a fair ability, and we speak a Russian-English mish-mash with each other.

    I have begun learning Lithuanian a couple times and have gone through textbooks, but I don’t keep up the effort. If I had persisted, I would speak Lithuanian well, because I am surrounded by Lithuanians.

    When I was young, I was very energetic about trying to master foreign languages, but I have lost that drive as I have grown old.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Opinionator
    Thanks Mike
    , @Mike Sylwester
    I forgot to say that my wife was a nurse in Lithuania, but she earned much more money cleaning homes in the USA. That is why she wanted to extend her visa another six months.
    , @E. Rekshun
    I have not worked on improving my Russian. She has learned to speak English to only a fair ability, and we speak a Russian-English mish-mash with each other.

    That must be exhausting.

    When I was young, I was very energetic about trying to master foreign languages, but I have lost that drive as I have grown old.

    I faithfully studied Spanish from age 26 to 30 while living in Miami - morning classes, evening classes, self-study every night, a Cuban girlfriend, even an 8-week in-residence total immersion course. And I improved greatly to the point that I was even dreaming in Spanish. But I slowly lost motivation and now, twenty years later, can speak the bare minimum
  119. sb says:
    @Mike Sylwester
    In general, I agree with the criticism of this visa-lottery program, but I want to tell everyone here about my son-in-law, who won such a visa.

    Egidijus grew up in Lithuania. He is about 35 years old now and won his visa when he was about 23 years old. He has been living in the USA for about a dozen years. (These numbers are estimates.)

    His father was a farmer, and his mother was a nurse. He has one brother, who is an ambulance driver. The family lives on the outskirts of a town with a population of about 16,000. Practically no non-Lithuanians live there.

    Egidijus was about 11 years old when the Soviet Union collapsed. From a young age, he dreamed of emigrating from Lithuania to the USA.

    He had no relatives or acquaintances in the USA. He did not study English in school. The only foreign language he ever studied was Russian. He had no real prospect to even visit the USA.

    He attended a Lithuanian university and earned a degree in electrical engineering.

    Soon after he graduated, he heard about the visa lottery for the first time. He entered the lottery on a whim and won on his first try.

    He was allowed to grant a visa to one close relative. He was not married and did not even have a girlfriend, so he offered the visa to his brother. His brother had no interest in starting a new life in the USA, so Egidijus emigrated alone.

    Not knowing anyone in the USA, Egidijus settled in New Jersey because he heard that it was a place where some Lithuanians had settled. He soon became acquainted with a Lithuanian-American who owned a small electrician company and who hired him. Egidijus worked in this company and began to teach himself English.

    My wife is Lithuanian, and her son and daughter lived with us. In Lithuania, my wife was a nurse. After her husband died, she came to the USA to visit her sister, who was married to a Lithuanian-American. She and I met on December 3, 1994, and were married on January 19, 1995. At that time she did not speak any English, but she and I both speak Russian.

    My step-son was educated in Lithuania in mathematics and computer programming. He graduated soon after the Soviet Union collapsed, and an international company hired him as a cheap programmer. That company employed him in various countries and eventually stationed him in the USA.

    Because my wife married me, her daughter was allowed to immigrate legally when she was about 15 years old. I never had children of my own, and she always has been a very affectionate daughter to me. She is tall and thin, and she became a professional model as a teenager and dropped out of high school and moved to New York City. After a while, my wife and I moved from Oregon to New Jersey to be closer to her. Eventually my wife and her son and daughter and I all lived in one home in South Hackensack.

    My step-son is an extraordinarily popular person who organizes parties and activities that attract Lithuanian immigrants to our home.

    Egidijus visited our home frequently, and eventually he and my daughter fell in love. He too moved into our home, and a couple years later, he and she married. A couple years later they moved out of our home into their own home, which is only a few miles away.

    As Egidijus learned English, he started his own electrician company. He continue to work half-time for his original employer for a couple years, but eventually he quit there completely and worked only for himself.

    As a self-employed small-business owner, he works about 70 hours a week. He employs several people, most of whom are immigrants from Latin America.

    He recently bought a run-down apartment building, which he is fixing up and renting out.

    Egidijus does not involve himself in politics, but when he expresses political opinions, they place him well within the conservative range of US politics.

    Most of the Lithuanians I know -- including my wife and step-son -- are fervent supporters of Democrat politics. They hate Donald Trump, because they favor mass immigration and oppose enforcement of our immigration laws. Probably most of my Lithuanian friends came to the USA on tourist or business visas and and then gradually legalized themselves (fake marriages, married citizens, etc.) They all hate Trump, because they all think that all other Lithuanians should be able to immigrate as they themselves did.

    In contrast, Egidijus, who immigrated legally, likes Trump and opposes illegal immigration. He is an odd-ball in our local Lithuanian community. (My step-daughter, who likewise immigrated legally, is apolitical.)

    My own large family is 99% Democrats, very liberal, who hate Trump furiously. Only I and one brother are Republicans. I am one of seven children. All my many other siblings and in-laws and nephews and nieces are zealous, Trump-hating Democrats. (My parents were too, but they both died of old age in the summer of 2016. If they had lived longer, they both would have died of strokes on Election Night.)

    So, in my family I am completely surrounded by liberal, Trump-hating Democrats -- except for my one Republican brother and Egidijus.

    This is very different to Australia . There just about all Eastern European migrants identify with the right . Even mild social democracy is just too close to Stalinism .
    Can’t say I blame them .

    I knew an Australian guy who won one of these diversity visas and never really used it . Apparently they have a use by date . His regret was that he couldn’t sell it on

    Read More
    • Replies: @Mike Sylwester

    This is very different to Australia . There just about all Eastern European migrants identify with the right .
     
    Most of my Lithuanian friends here in the USA have little or no personal memory of living in the Soviet Union.

    Lithuania has been independent for 27 years. So, Lithuanians younger than 40 didn't personally experience much of Communism. The Capitalist society that they have experienced subsequently in Lithuania has suffered a lot of trouble.

    Those of them who have come to live in the USA approve our Democrat Party's determination to ignore or eliminate our immigration laws. That is a major political issue for them.
  120. @Mike Sylwester

    What explains the relatively short time between meeting and marriage?
     
    My wife's name is Zosia.

    Zosia's sister had met a Lithuanian-American in Lithuania, married him, and moved with him to the USA. There the sister earned rather good money cleaning homes for wealthy families.

    For a long time, the sister invited Zosia to visit her in the USA for six months, promising to set her up in house-cleaning jobs. Zosia kept turning down the invitations, because she was married and had a teenage daughter.

    However, Zosia' husband died unexpectedly in an accident, and so she decided to accept her sister's invitation. Zosia obtained a six-month visa and came to the USA and went to work cleaning homes. She was able to extend her visa another six months because one of the home owners, a doctor, signed a paper that he was treating her for migraine headaches.

    Meanwhile, I was divorced and working as a translator in the same company that employed the Lithuanian-American. Mutual friends introduced Zosia and me, and we liked each other. By this time, however, her year in the USA was approaching its end. We were in December, and her visa expired in March.

    So, if we were going to get married, we had to do it quickly. We married in mid-January so that we would have time to make good progress in applying for a green card before her visa expired in March.

    It looked like it might be a fake marriage for the sole purpose of her getting a green card, but we really did love each other. The fact that I had been a USAF officer for 14 years helped convince the decision-maker to give her the green card.

    I felt kind of conflicted in this situation, because I generally disapprove of Americans marrying foreigners so that the foreign spouses obtain green cards. I still feel that way. However, I made a selfish exception for myself because I was so interested in learning foreign languages. One of Zosia's attractions for me was the opportunity to live with a Russian-speaker. (Her native language is Lithuanian, but she grew up in a Russian neighborhood and speaks Russian fluently.)

    Ironically, though, living with her has not helped my Russian language ability much. I have not worked on improving my Russian. She has learned to speak English to only a fair ability, and we speak a Russian-English mish-mash with each other.

    I have begun learning Lithuanian a couple times and have gone through textbooks, but I don't keep up the effort. If I had persisted, I would speak Lithuanian well, because I am surrounded by Lithuanians.

    When I was young, I was very energetic about trying to master foreign languages, but I have lost that drive as I have grown old.

    Thanks Mike

    Read More
  121. @Anon

    In fiscal 2015 (the most recent year for detailed data on application countries), about 12% of the 14.4 million people who applied for the visa lottery were citizens of Ghana (1.7 million).
     
    So under open borders more than a million people would come from Ghana almost instantly? For people like Bryan Caplan this is the feature, not the bug of open borders.



    btw, have y'all seen this one over at AmRen, here's the author bio:


    The author is a well-known public intellectual who has been published and interviewed countless times in America’s most prestigious mainstream media. She feels she cannot be honest publicly about the issues discussed here.

    https://www.amren.com/features/2017/04/how-i-became-conservative-schools-iq/
     

    How many people are there out there like her? I’ve always suspected the number is not insignificant.

    My own awakening was different. I was from an (old-fashioned) leftist family.

    But I had no time to think about politics for many years: working full time and single-parenting. By 9/11 the kids were off on their own.

    I was shocked by 9/11. I started reading about Islam, and reading on the internet.

    In no time at all I found that the conventional leftists were crazy.

    It was all America’s fault, etc, etc. I wrote them off almost immediately.

    Eventually I branched out and read The Blank Slate. Without 9/11 would I still be an ignoramus about so many things?

    Read More
  122. @Corvinus
    "I didn’t say “matched” necessarily. But there would have been sufficient talent to create a perfectly healthy and prosperous society, given that population’s historical track record and the natural abundance in the United Stated."

    You make a mighty big assumption that America would have achieved its intellectual and industrial might without the backbreaking labor and technical prowess of the Irish, Germans, Slavs, and Italians, that the WASPS who formed the Know Nothing Party would have filled that tremendous void with "sufficient talent". Exactly why those immigrants came here to create start up companies or work in the factories. The fact of the matter is that our nation heavily depended upon those tens of millions who came here to demonstrate their ingenuity.

    "Also, there is this illusion people have that removing someone renown or in charge will leave a vaccuum."

    There is no illusion here. Tremendous talents would not have been cultivated here; rather, their innovations would have made their home nations prosper.

    "When in fact you may go from a 10 to a 9 or an 8, not to a zero. We can live with that."

    Who is this "we"? Again, you assume that the native population (which, by the way, who is this particular group, you do not define it) would have simply and eventually "found its way" technologically in the absence of immigrant skill.

    "Who knows, someone may have come along and done better than Ford and Carnegie."

    Key phrase, "may have come along". Furthermore, these titans built the foundation for our country for generations. Do you really believe America would have been "better off" waiting for, say a WASP, of their caliber to develop steel mills or automobiles?

    "And sometimes you get an improvement. See Lou Gehrig."

    He was a German who would have never been here had the Know Nothings had their way!
    Please, stop embarrassing yourself.

    Nah, we would have been fine. We were fine before the 1850s and we would have been fine after. If the immigrants were so talented, they would have stayed in their home countries and innovated there.

    There was no “void” to fill, either. Just a lot of natural beauty, resources, and wildlife that would have remained unmolested for a lot longer.

    Without the immigration surge in the 19th Century, probably there would have been no Civil War. If there was, the South probably would have fought to a standoff and achieved independence. Conflicts with the Amerindians would probably have been far milder.

    If the South had won its independence, or absent the population surge from Europe, the United States probably wouldn’t have exacerbated World War I and caused WW II.

    Most importantly, no WWII, no Holocaust.

    Read More
    • Agree: E. Rekshun
    • Replies: @E. Rekshun
    Wow! All excellent observations!

    If the immigrants were so talented, they would have stayed in their home countries and innovated there.

    I'm going to use this one.
    , @Corvinus
    "Nah, we would have been fine. We were fine before the 1850s and we would have been fine after."

    You do realize that prior to the 1850's there were immigrants who also invented things that put the U.S. on the road to becoming an industrial power. Keep doubling down on ignorance.

    "If the immigrants were so talented, they would have stayed in their home countries and innovated there."

    At the expense of American greatness.

    "There was no “void” to fill, either. Just a lot of natural beauty, resources, and wildlife that would have remained unmolested for a lot longer."

    That is not the m.o. of Europeans.

    "Without the immigration surge in the 19th Century, probably there would have been no Civil War."

    There would have been a Civil War because of the growing hostilities between North and South. And there was that slavery issue.

    "If there was, the South probably would have fought to a standoff and achieved independence."

    Not with the crippling Union blockade.

    "If the South had won its independence, or absent the population surge from Europe, the United States probably wouldn’t have exacerbated World War I and caused WW II."

    The United States did not cause World War II.
  123. @Anon 2
    I also recommend "Notes from a White Country" (i.e., Poland)
    Parts 1 and 2, on amren.com

    Thanks for the tip. Part 1 is here,

    https://www.amren.com/commentary/2017/03/poland-white-country-homogeneity/

    Meanwhile, from a Financial Times newsletter:

    Jan-Werner Müller: Viktor Orban is Europe’s enemy within.

    Hungary receives subsidies from Brussels, yet disregards the rules of the EU club

    Read More
  124. @Frau Katze
    How many people are there out there like her? I've always suspected the number is not insignificant.

    My own awakening was different. I was from an (old-fashioned) leftist family.

    But I had no time to think about politics for many years: working full time and single-parenting. By 9/11 the kids were off on their own.

    I was shocked by 9/11. I started reading about Islam, and reading on the internet.

    In no time at all I found that the conventional leftists were crazy.

    It was all America's fault, etc, etc. I wrote them off almost immediately.

    Eventually I branched out and read The Blank Slate. Without 9/11 would I still be an ignoramus about so many things?

    How was 9/11 NOT America’s fault?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Frau Katze
    You can argue that American interference in the Middle East angered the population.

    You can especially argue that supporting Islamist extremists as a bulwark against Communism was idiotic.

    But America interfered in many parts of the world, for the same motive: against Communism.

    Vietnam was the big one when I was young, but there were more later: in some Central American countries, especially.

    However, there is distinct lack of Vietnamese or Guatemalan terrorists, much less ones flying planes into buildings.

    This leads to concluding that Muslims are different from the rest of us. Namely, they resort to violence very quickly, especially if the "honour" of Islam or Mohammed is threatened.

    In earlier times (when the Ottomans were invading Europe) the threat of Islam was clear.

    But during the Communist era, it seems that everyone forgot all about this.

    9/11 was very much a Muslim effort. It was a clear indicator that Islam was going to be a problem—again,

    Carrying on about America supporting Islamists and thus deserving of 9/11 obscures the main message: Islam is very dangerous, uniquely so.
  125. @Opinionator
    How was 9/11 NOT America's fault?

    You can argue that American interference in the Middle East angered the population.

    You can especially argue that supporting Islamist extremists as a bulwark against Communism was idiotic.

    But America interfered in many parts of the world, for the same motive: against Communism.

    Vietnam was the big one when I was young, but there were more later: in some Central American countries, especially.

    However, there is distinct lack of Vietnamese or Guatemalan terrorists, much less ones flying planes into buildings.

    This leads to concluding that Muslims are different from the rest of us. Namely, they resort to violence very quickly, especially if the “honour” of Islam or Mohammed is threatened.

    In earlier times (when the Ottomans were invading Europe) the threat of Islam was clear.

    But during the Communist era, it seems that everyone forgot all about this.

    9/11 was very much a Muslim effort. It was a clear indicator that Islam was going to be a problem—again,

    Carrying on about America supporting Islamists and thus deserving of 9/11 obscures the main message: Islam is very dangerous, uniquely so.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Opinionator
    However, there is distinct lack of Vietnamese or Guatemalan terrorists, much less ones flying planes into buildings.

    I am under the impression that the Vietnamese killed a large number of Americans. They were resisting the unwanted presence of foreigners in their homeland, which is what the Arabs are doing in the present day.
  126. @Mike Sylwester

    What explains the relatively short time between meeting and marriage?
     
    My wife's name is Zosia.

    Zosia's sister had met a Lithuanian-American in Lithuania, married him, and moved with him to the USA. There the sister earned rather good money cleaning homes for wealthy families.

    For a long time, the sister invited Zosia to visit her in the USA for six months, promising to set her up in house-cleaning jobs. Zosia kept turning down the invitations, because she was married and had a teenage daughter.

    However, Zosia' husband died unexpectedly in an accident, and so she decided to accept her sister's invitation. Zosia obtained a six-month visa and came to the USA and went to work cleaning homes. She was able to extend her visa another six months because one of the home owners, a doctor, signed a paper that he was treating her for migraine headaches.

    Meanwhile, I was divorced and working as a translator in the same company that employed the Lithuanian-American. Mutual friends introduced Zosia and me, and we liked each other. By this time, however, her year in the USA was approaching its end. We were in December, and her visa expired in March.

    So, if we were going to get married, we had to do it quickly. We married in mid-January so that we would have time to make good progress in applying for a green card before her visa expired in March.

    It looked like it might be a fake marriage for the sole purpose of her getting a green card, but we really did love each other. The fact that I had been a USAF officer for 14 years helped convince the decision-maker to give her the green card.

    I felt kind of conflicted in this situation, because I generally disapprove of Americans marrying foreigners so that the foreign spouses obtain green cards. I still feel that way. However, I made a selfish exception for myself because I was so interested in learning foreign languages. One of Zosia's attractions for me was the opportunity to live with a Russian-speaker. (Her native language is Lithuanian, but she grew up in a Russian neighborhood and speaks Russian fluently.)

    Ironically, though, living with her has not helped my Russian language ability much. I have not worked on improving my Russian. She has learned to speak English to only a fair ability, and we speak a Russian-English mish-mash with each other.

    I have begun learning Lithuanian a couple times and have gone through textbooks, but I don't keep up the effort. If I had persisted, I would speak Lithuanian well, because I am surrounded by Lithuanians.

    When I was young, I was very energetic about trying to master foreign languages, but I have lost that drive as I have grown old.

    I forgot to say that my wife was a nurse in Lithuania, but she earned much more money cleaning homes in the USA. That is why she wanted to extend her visa another six months.

    Read More
  127. @sb
    This is very different to Australia . There just about all Eastern European migrants identify with the right . Even mild social democracy is just too close to Stalinism .
    Can't say I blame them .

    I knew an Australian guy who won one of these diversity visas and never really used it . Apparently they have a use by date . His regret was that he couldn't sell it on

    This is very different to Australia . There just about all Eastern European migrants identify with the right .

    Most of my Lithuanian friends here in the USA have little or no personal memory of living in the Soviet Union.

    Lithuania has been independent for 27 years. So, Lithuanians younger than 40 didn’t personally experience much of Communism. The Capitalist society that they have experienced subsequently in Lithuania has suffered a lot of trouble.

    Those of them who have come to live in the USA approve our Democrat Party’s determination to ignore or eliminate our immigration laws. That is a major political issue for them.

    Read More
  128. Ben Frank says:

    In North-South War news, the Southern forces which conquered South Africa are finally experiencing their inevitable economic decline. The chart below shows the ups and downs:
    - rapid growth after independence in 1961,
    - stagnation due to 1980s worldwide economic boycott,
    - economic crash folloowing Black takeover in 1994,
    - growth due to restoration of worldwide trade until 2010,
    - precipitous economic decline since then.

    http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY.GDP.PCAP.CD?locations=ZA

    Read More
  129. @Mike Sylwester

    What explains the relatively short time between meeting and marriage?
     
    My wife's name is Zosia.

    Zosia's sister had met a Lithuanian-American in Lithuania, married him, and moved with him to the USA. There the sister earned rather good money cleaning homes for wealthy families.

    For a long time, the sister invited Zosia to visit her in the USA for six months, promising to set her up in house-cleaning jobs. Zosia kept turning down the invitations, because she was married and had a teenage daughter.

    However, Zosia' husband died unexpectedly in an accident, and so she decided to accept her sister's invitation. Zosia obtained a six-month visa and came to the USA and went to work cleaning homes. She was able to extend her visa another six months because one of the home owners, a doctor, signed a paper that he was treating her for migraine headaches.

    Meanwhile, I was divorced and working as a translator in the same company that employed the Lithuanian-American. Mutual friends introduced Zosia and me, and we liked each other. By this time, however, her year in the USA was approaching its end. We were in December, and her visa expired in March.

    So, if we were going to get married, we had to do it quickly. We married in mid-January so that we would have time to make good progress in applying for a green card before her visa expired in March.

    It looked like it might be a fake marriage for the sole purpose of her getting a green card, but we really did love each other. The fact that I had been a USAF officer for 14 years helped convince the decision-maker to give her the green card.

    I felt kind of conflicted in this situation, because I generally disapprove of Americans marrying foreigners so that the foreign spouses obtain green cards. I still feel that way. However, I made a selfish exception for myself because I was so interested in learning foreign languages. One of Zosia's attractions for me was the opportunity to live with a Russian-speaker. (Her native language is Lithuanian, but she grew up in a Russian neighborhood and speaks Russian fluently.)

    Ironically, though, living with her has not helped my Russian language ability much. I have not worked on improving my Russian. She has learned to speak English to only a fair ability, and we speak a Russian-English mish-mash with each other.

    I have begun learning Lithuanian a couple times and have gone through textbooks, but I don't keep up the effort. If I had persisted, I would speak Lithuanian well, because I am surrounded by Lithuanians.

    When I was young, I was very energetic about trying to master foreign languages, but I have lost that drive as I have grown old.

    I have not worked on improving my Russian. She has learned to speak English to only a fair ability, and we speak a Russian-English mish-mash with each other.

    That must be exhausting.

    When I was young, I was very energetic about trying to master foreign languages, but I have lost that drive as I have grown old.

    I faithfully studied Spanish from age 26 to 30 while living in Miami – morning classes, evening classes, self-study every night, a Cuban girlfriend, even an 8-week in-residence total immersion course. And I improved greatly to the point that I was even dreaming in Spanish. But I slowly lost motivation and now, twenty years later, can speak the bare minimum

    Read More
  130. @Opinionator
    Nah, we would have been fine. We were fine before the 1850s and we would have been fine after. If the immigrants were so talented, they would have stayed in their home countries and innovated there.

    There was no "void" to fill, either. Just a lot of natural beauty, resources, and wildlife that would have remained unmolested for a lot longer.

    Without the immigration surge in the 19th Century, probably there would have been no Civil War. If there was, the South probably would have fought to a standoff and achieved independence. Conflicts with the Amerindians would probably have been far milder.

    If the South had won its independence, or absent the population surge from Europe, the United States probably wouldn't have exacerbated World War I and caused WW II.

    Most importantly, no WWII, no Holocaust.

    Wow! All excellent observations!

    If the immigrants were so talented, they would have stayed in their home countries and innovated there.

    I’m going to use this one.

    Read More
  131. Corvinus says:
    @anon
    You make a mighty big assumption that America would have achieved its intellectual and industrial might without the backbreaking labor and technical prowess of the Irish,

    The technical prowess of the Irish didn't do a whole lot for Ireland.

    the WASPS who formed the Know Nothing Party would have filled that tremendous void with “sufficient talent”. Exactly why those immigrants came here to create start up companies or work in the factories.

    No offense to factory workers, but working in a factory isn't typically considered a "talent".

    The fact of the matter is that our nation heavily depended upon those tens of millions who came here to demonstrate their ingenuity.

    You really think tens of millions of people showed ingenuity? What percentage of them held patents? Like 0.1? Give me a break.

    Do you really believe America would have been “better off” waiting for, say a WASP, of their caliber to develop steel mills or automobiles?

    The automobile WASN'T invented in the US, so I suppose we'd be just about as well off as we are now.

    I don't know if you know this, but just because something is invented in one country doesn't mean people in other countries can't then go on to make them. Look at Japan.

    He was a German who would have never been here had the Know Nothings had their way!

    Apart from the fact that Germans have been here since before the US was a country, he was just a baseball player.

    “The technical prowess of the Irish didn’t do a whole lot for Ireland.”

    Refer to Boyle’s law, the Beaufort scale, the induction coil, and the “kyanising process” for starters. How dare you impugn your fellow whites.

    “You really think tens of millions of people showed ingenuity? What percentage of them held patents? Like 0.1? Give me a break.”

    Holding a patent is one such endeavor that shows ingenuity. So does being a successful farmer or entrepreneur. So does a person working in a company that demonstrates ways to save money or bring in new customers.

    “The automobile WASN’T invented in the US, so I suppose we’d be just about as well off as we are now.”

    What a short-sighted comment. The automobile industry stimulated multiple areas of our economy, from glass to steel to rubber to service-orientated positions.

    “I don’t know if you know this, but just because something is invented in one country doesn’t mean people in other countries can’t then go on to make them. Look at Japan.”

    I don’t know if you know this, but when something is invented in one country, more than likely the people who created it want it to stay in their host nation so they can initially profit from it.
    OR, the person does not want to share it because it offers their country some sort of advantage.

    Read More
    • Replies: @anon
    Refer to Boyle’s law, the Beaufort scale, the induction coil, and the “kyanising process” for starters.

    Boy, all that, and they still managed to basically be a third-world country.

    If I didn't know any better, I might start to wonder if just randomly "inventing" things might not be what makes people in various countries wealthy.

    How dare you impugn your fellow whites.

    Shut up.

    So does being a successful farmer or entrepreneur.

    Being a successful farmer prior to the Green Revolution mostly relied on knowing what people had done for centuries and doing it.

    I'm sick of this stupid fantasy people have that even a significant minority of immigrants were entrepreneurs. That never was true. Why do you keep saying it?

    What a short-sighted comment. The automobile industry stimulated multiple areas of our economy, from glass to steel to rubber to service-orientated positions.

    Yes. Despite the fact that the automobile was invented in a completely different country, by someone who didn't immigrate to the United States. We STILL managed to have an automotive industry anyway. Imagine that.

    I don’t know if you know this, but when something is invented in one country, more than likely the people who created it want it to stay in their host nation so they can initially profit from it.

    People can want whatever they want. It doesn't matter. Japan never invented anything recently. Yet they still make cars, TVs, electronics. All kinds of stuff.

    The fact that you don't know this makes it hilarious that you think you have anything to contribute.

    Why do you keep coming here? You have nothing to say.

  132. Corvinus says:
    @Opinionator
    Nah, we would have been fine. We were fine before the 1850s and we would have been fine after. If the immigrants were so talented, they would have stayed in their home countries and innovated there.

    There was no "void" to fill, either. Just a lot of natural beauty, resources, and wildlife that would have remained unmolested for a lot longer.

    Without the immigration surge in the 19th Century, probably there would have been no Civil War. If there was, the South probably would have fought to a standoff and achieved independence. Conflicts with the Amerindians would probably have been far milder.

    If the South had won its independence, or absent the population surge from Europe, the United States probably wouldn't have exacerbated World War I and caused WW II.

    Most importantly, no WWII, no Holocaust.

    “Nah, we would have been fine. We were fine before the 1850s and we would have been fine after.”

    You do realize that prior to the 1850′s there were immigrants who also invented things that put the U.S. on the road to becoming an industrial power. Keep doubling down on ignorance.

    “If the immigrants were so talented, they would have stayed in their home countries and innovated there.”

    At the expense of American greatness.

    “There was no “void” to fill, either. Just a lot of natural beauty, resources, and wildlife that would have remained unmolested for a lot longer.”

    That is not the m.o. of Europeans.

    “Without the immigration surge in the 19th Century, probably there would have been no Civil War.”

    There would have been a Civil War because of the growing hostilities between North and South. And there was that slavery issue.

    “If there was, the South probably would have fought to a standoff and achieved independence.”

    Not with the crippling Union blockade.

    “If the South had won its independence, or absent the population surge from Europe, the United States probably wouldn’t have exacerbated World War I and caused WW II.”

    The United States did not cause World War II.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Opinionator
    The United States did cause World War II, first through its involvement in World War I, its outcome, and the terms of its conclusion, and then both by its emboldening of Britain in the late 1930s and by its meddling against Germany and Japan prior to formalizing the hostilities.

    As for the Civil War, the North couldn't have won, and probably wouldn't have tried, without its abundance of immigrant cannon fodder.

  133. anon says: • Disclaimer
    @Corvinus
    "The technical prowess of the Irish didn’t do a whole lot for Ireland."

    Refer to Boyle's law, the Beaufort scale, the induction coil, and the "kyanising process" for starters. How dare you impugn your fellow whites.

    "You really think tens of millions of people showed ingenuity? What percentage of them held patents? Like 0.1? Give me a break."

    Holding a patent is one such endeavor that shows ingenuity. So does being a successful farmer or entrepreneur. So does a person working in a company that demonstrates ways to save money or bring in new customers.

    "The automobile WASN’T invented in the US, so I suppose we’d be just about as well off as we are now."

    What a short-sighted comment. The automobile industry stimulated multiple areas of our economy, from glass to steel to rubber to service-orientated positions.

    "I don’t know if you know this, but just because something is invented in one country doesn’t mean people in other countries can’t then go on to make them. Look at Japan."

    I don't know if you know this, but when something is invented in one country, more than likely the people who created it want it to stay in their host nation so they can initially profit from it.
    OR, the person does not want to share it because it offers their country some sort of advantage.

    Refer to Boyle’s law, the Beaufort scale, the induction coil, and the “kyanising process” for starters.

    Boy, all that, and they still managed to basically be a third-world country.

    If I didn’t know any better, I might start to wonder if just randomly “inventing” things might not be what makes people in various countries wealthy.

    How dare you impugn your fellow whites.

    Shut up.

    So does being a successful farmer or entrepreneur.

    Being a successful farmer prior to the Green Revolution mostly relied on knowing what people had done for centuries and doing it.

    I’m sick of this stupid fantasy people have that even a significant minority of immigrants were entrepreneurs. That never was true. Why do you keep saying it?

    What a short-sighted comment. The automobile industry stimulated multiple areas of our economy, from glass to steel to rubber to service-orientated positions.

    Yes. Despite the fact that the automobile was invented in a completely different country, by someone who didn’t immigrate to the United States. We STILL managed to have an automotive industry anyway. Imagine that.

    I don’t know if you know this, but when something is invented in one country, more than likely the people who created it want it to stay in their host nation so they can initially profit from it.

    People can want whatever they want. It doesn’t matter. Japan never invented anything recently. Yet they still make cars, TVs, electronics. All kinds of stuff.

    The fact that you don’t know this makes it hilarious that you think you have anything to contribute.

    Why do you keep coming here? You have nothing to say.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Corvinus
    "Boy, all that, and they still managed to basically be a third-world country."

    Another damning comment related to white people. I thought white people were superior. How could they be "third world"?

    Remember, First, Second, and Third World is a byproduct of Cold War geography and international relations. Switzerland, Finland, Sweden, and Ireland were considered "Third World" because they did not align themselves with the U.S.S.R. or the U.S. They remained neutral.

    "Shut up."

    For someone who touts himself as being pro-white, and labeling your fellow whites in Ireland as being Third World, you owe them an apology at best or turn in your white card at worst.

    "Being a successful farmer prior to the Green Revolution mostly relied on knowing what people had done for centuries and doing it."

    Doing it well. There is a skill set involved.

    As an aside, the Green Revolution refers to the renovation of agricultural practices beginning in Mexico in the 1940's. Imagine that, mestizos and innovations.

    "I’m sick of this stupid fantasy people have that even a significant minority of immigrants were entrepreneurs. That never was true. Why do you keep saying it?"

    That's not what I stated. I said that "holding a patent is one such endeavor that shows ingenuity. So does being a successful farmer or entrepreneur."

    "Yes. Despite the fact that the automobile was invented in a completely different country, by someone who didn’t immigrate to the United States. We STILL managed to have an automotive industry anyway. Imagine that."

    Actually, it is not a fact.

    https://www.loc.gov/rr/scitech/mysteries/auto.html

    Indeed, we still managed to have cars developed here in the States, thanks to immigrants. Henry Ford's father was an immigrant from England. His mother was the youngest child of immigrants from Belgium. William Durant, who helped form General Motors, was the descendent of French immigrants.

    "People can want whatever they want. It doesn’t matter. Japan never invented anything recently. Yet they still make cars, TVs, electronics. All kinds of stuff."

    Recently is a relative term. Do you mean within the past 50 years? 30 years? 15 years?

    The world's first android, DER 01, was developed by a Japanese research group in 2003. That is a recent invention.

    In 2014, Toyota launched the first production hydrogen fuel cell vehicle. That would be recent, right?

    "Why do you keep coming here? You have nothing to say."

    Yet you keep responding with comments, so I do have something to say.
  134. TheJester says:
    @PiltdownMan

    I actually don’t have a problem with this, as long as it’s limited.
     
    I'm not sure whether this program satisfies your notion of a "limited" natural experiment.

    About 500,000 lottery winners are granted visas every 10 years, or about an even million in 20 years. Using a chain migration multiplier of 4.5x (based on a 1996-2000 data in a National Institutes of Health paper), that's about 5 million immigrants who will have gotten in by lottery from the years 2000 to 2020. It is reasonable to suspect that multipliers for immigration lottery winners might behigher.

    This is not a small scale experiment.


    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3884518/

    https://travel.state.gov/content/dam/visas/Statistics/AnnualReports/FY2014AnnualReport/FY14AnnualReport-TableVII.pdf

    Exactly, the threat in all of these immigration schemes is family unification. The increase is expotential and quickly out of control.

    Better. If people are allowed to immigrate, make it clear that none of their relatives can follow them.

    Read More
  135. @Ivy
    Those Lutherans just can't help themselves. Look at communities around the upper mid-west where they helped the locals adjust to diversity. Their efforts destroyed community cohesion, gee, almost as if by design. Inner cities and suburbs bore the brunt of those misguided attempts at social engineering, and those areas have been paying for all that free help for decades.

    Those Lutherans just can’t help themselves.

    Do the Lutherans send their refugees to Lutheran areas, or to Catholic areas, like St Cloud and St Paul?

    And where do Catholic Charities send theirs?

    Read More
  136. @Corvinus
    "Nah, we would have been fine. We were fine before the 1850s and we would have been fine after."

    You do realize that prior to the 1850's there were immigrants who also invented things that put the U.S. on the road to becoming an industrial power. Keep doubling down on ignorance.

    "If the immigrants were so talented, they would have stayed in their home countries and innovated there."

    At the expense of American greatness.

    "There was no “void” to fill, either. Just a lot of natural beauty, resources, and wildlife that would have remained unmolested for a lot longer."

    That is not the m.o. of Europeans.

    "Without the immigration surge in the 19th Century, probably there would have been no Civil War."

    There would have been a Civil War because of the growing hostilities between North and South. And there was that slavery issue.

    "If there was, the South probably would have fought to a standoff and achieved independence."

    Not with the crippling Union blockade.

    "If the South had won its independence, or absent the population surge from Europe, the United States probably wouldn’t have exacerbated World War I and caused WW II."

    The United States did not cause World War II.

    The United States did cause World War II, first through its involvement in World War I, its outcome, and the terms of its conclusion, and then both by its emboldening of Britain in the late 1930s and by its meddling against Germany and Japan prior to formalizing the hostilities.

    As for the Civil War, the North couldn’t have won, and probably wouldn’t have tried, without its abundance of immigrant cannon fodder.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Corvinus
    "The United States did cause World War II, first through its involvement in World War I, its outcome, and the terms of its conclusion, and then both by its emboldening of Britain in the late 1930s and by its meddling against Germany and Japan prior to formalizing the hostilities."

    Now you're just trolling. By all means, offer me those historians who posit this theory or provide specific evidence to lend support to your conclusion.

    "As for the Civil War, the North couldn’t have won, and probably wouldn’t have tried, without its abundance of immigrant cannon fodder."

    The North may not have one, and they probably may have tried, given Lincoln's commitment from stopping the expansion of slavery in the new territories and allowing it to continue in the South. Indeed, immigrants and the sons of immigrants made up about 43% of the northern military. They volunteered, fought, and sacrificed beyond what might be expected of "strangers". Why? To show loyalty to their new nation, to remove the scourge of slavery, to fight for personal honor.
  137. Mokiki says:
    @Anonymous
    Trump's will fix very little that is wrong about our immigration system. He just appointed an Obama crook to head Border Patrol. He just nominated an open borders neocon to head his Council of Economic Advisors.

    The Wall is for suckers. It will take many years and end up piecemeal. Later presidents will undermine it completely. Winning!

    All he has to do is workplace enforcement. But Trump didn't talk about that at his rallies. Because it would send all illegals home!

    Mexican peso has recovered btw because speculators now understand that the number of deportations will be tiny and the Uniparty status quo is here to stay...

    Israel has built a migrant proof fence for a mere 1.8 million bucks per mile along its entire Sinai border. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel%E2%80%93Egypt_barrier

    Read More
  138. @Frau Katze
    You can argue that American interference in the Middle East angered the population.

    You can especially argue that supporting Islamist extremists as a bulwark against Communism was idiotic.

    But America interfered in many parts of the world, for the same motive: against Communism.

    Vietnam was the big one when I was young, but there were more later: in some Central American countries, especially.

    However, there is distinct lack of Vietnamese or Guatemalan terrorists, much less ones flying planes into buildings.

    This leads to concluding that Muslims are different from the rest of us. Namely, they resort to violence very quickly, especially if the "honour" of Islam or Mohammed is threatened.

    In earlier times (when the Ottomans were invading Europe) the threat of Islam was clear.

    But during the Communist era, it seems that everyone forgot all about this.

    9/11 was very much a Muslim effort. It was a clear indicator that Islam was going to be a problem—again,

    Carrying on about America supporting Islamists and thus deserving of 9/11 obscures the main message: Islam is very dangerous, uniquely so.

    However, there is distinct lack of Vietnamese or Guatemalan terrorists, much less ones flying planes into buildings.

    I am under the impression that the Vietnamese killed a large number of Americans. They were resisting the unwanted presence of foreigners in their homeland, which is what the Arabs are doing in the present day.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Frau Katze
    The Vietnamese killed a lot of American soldiers who were in Vietnam in a war.

    After the war ended, Vietnamese civilians did not travel to the USA in order to kill American civilians.

    Nor do descendants of Vietnamese migrants regularly attack Americans civilians.

    They have never done that.
  139. Corvinus says:
    @Opinionator
    The United States did cause World War II, first through its involvement in World War I, its outcome, and the terms of its conclusion, and then both by its emboldening of Britain in the late 1930s and by its meddling against Germany and Japan prior to formalizing the hostilities.

    As for the Civil War, the North couldn't have won, and probably wouldn't have tried, without its abundance of immigrant cannon fodder.

    “The United States did cause World War II, first through its involvement in World War I, its outcome, and the terms of its conclusion, and then both by its emboldening of Britain in the late 1930s and by its meddling against Germany and Japan prior to formalizing the hostilities.”

    Now you’re just trolling. By all means, offer me those historians who posit this theory or provide specific evidence to lend support to your conclusion.

    “As for the Civil War, the North couldn’t have won, and probably wouldn’t have tried, without its abundance of immigrant cannon fodder.”

    The North may not have one, and they probably may have tried, given Lincoln’s commitment from stopping the expansion of slavery in the new territories and allowing it to continue in the South. Indeed, immigrants and the sons of immigrants made up about 43% of the northern military. They volunteered, fought, and sacrificed beyond what might be expected of “strangers”. Why? To show loyalty to their new nation, to remove the scourge of slavery, to fight for personal honor.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Opinionator
    You should know better than to expect the victors' historians to expressly incriminate the victors.

    Having said that, one needn't look faro to find mainstream citations that identify, however obliquely, World War I and its outcome as causal factors in the start of World War II.
  140. @Opinionator
    However, there is distinct lack of Vietnamese or Guatemalan terrorists, much less ones flying planes into buildings.

    I am under the impression that the Vietnamese killed a large number of Americans. They were resisting the unwanted presence of foreigners in their homeland, which is what the Arabs are doing in the present day.

    The Vietnamese killed a lot of American soldiers who were in Vietnam in a war.

    After the war ended, Vietnamese civilians did not travel to the USA in order to kill American civilians.

    Nor do descendants of Vietnamese migrants regularly attack Americans civilians.

    They have never done that.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Opinionator
    After the war ended, Vietnamese civilians did not travel to the USA in order to kill American civilians. Nor do descendants of Vietnamese migrants regularly attack Americans civilians.

    The Vietnamese stopped killing Americans after the United States withdrew from Vietnam. The United States has not withdrawn from Muslim homelands. That is the difference.

  141. Corvinus says:
    @anon
    Refer to Boyle’s law, the Beaufort scale, the induction coil, and the “kyanising process” for starters.

    Boy, all that, and they still managed to basically be a third-world country.

    If I didn't know any better, I might start to wonder if just randomly "inventing" things might not be what makes people in various countries wealthy.

    How dare you impugn your fellow whites.

    Shut up.

    So does being a successful farmer or entrepreneur.

    Being a successful farmer prior to the Green Revolution mostly relied on knowing what people had done for centuries and doing it.

    I'm sick of this stupid fantasy people have that even a significant minority of immigrants were entrepreneurs. That never was true. Why do you keep saying it?

    What a short-sighted comment. The automobile industry stimulated multiple areas of our economy, from glass to steel to rubber to service-orientated positions.

    Yes. Despite the fact that the automobile was invented in a completely different country, by someone who didn't immigrate to the United States. We STILL managed to have an automotive industry anyway. Imagine that.

    I don’t know if you know this, but when something is invented in one country, more than likely the people who created it want it to stay in their host nation so they can initially profit from it.

    People can want whatever they want. It doesn't matter. Japan never invented anything recently. Yet they still make cars, TVs, electronics. All kinds of stuff.

    The fact that you don't know this makes it hilarious that you think you have anything to contribute.

    Why do you keep coming here? You have nothing to say.

    “Boy, all that, and they still managed to basically be a third-world country.”

    Another damning comment related to white people. I thought white people were superior. How could they be “third world”?

    Remember, First, Second, and Third World is a byproduct of Cold War geography and international relations. Switzerland, Finland, Sweden, and Ireland were considered “Third World” because they did not align themselves with the U.S.S.R. or the U.S. They remained neutral.

    “Shut up.”

    For someone who touts himself as being pro-white, and labeling your fellow whites in Ireland as being Third World, you owe them an apology at best or turn in your white card at worst.

    “Being a successful farmer prior to the Green Revolution mostly relied on knowing what people had done for centuries and doing it.”

    Doing it well. There is a skill set involved.

    As an aside, the Green Revolution refers to the renovation of agricultural practices beginning in Mexico in the 1940′s. Imagine that, mestizos and innovations.

    “I’m sick of this stupid fantasy people have that even a significant minority of immigrants were entrepreneurs. That never was true. Why do you keep saying it?”

    That’s not what I stated. I said that “holding a patent is one such endeavor that shows ingenuity. So does being a successful farmer or entrepreneur.”

    “Yes. Despite the fact that the automobile was invented in a completely different country, by someone who didn’t immigrate to the United States. We STILL managed to have an automotive industry anyway. Imagine that.”

    Actually, it is not a fact.

    https://www.loc.gov/rr/scitech/mysteries/auto.html

    Indeed, we still managed to have cars developed here in the States, thanks to immigrants. Henry Ford’s father was an immigrant from England. His mother was the youngest child of immigrants from Belgium. William Durant, who helped form General Motors, was the descendent of French immigrants.

    “People can want whatever they want. It doesn’t matter. Japan never invented anything recently. Yet they still make cars, TVs, electronics. All kinds of stuff.”

    Recently is a relative term. Do you mean within the past 50 years? 30 years? 15 years?

    The world’s first android, DER 01, was developed by a Japanese research group in 2003. That is a recent invention.

    In 2014, Toyota launched the first production hydrogen fuel cell vehicle. That would be recent, right?

    “Why do you keep coming here? You have nothing to say.”

    Yet you keep responding with comments, so I do have something to say.

    Read More
    • Replies: @anon
    How could they be “third world”?

    Do you see what I mean? Everything you say is asinine.

    Remember, First, Second, and Third World is a byproduct of Cold War geography and international relations.

    Well, the terms themselves are, but hard as it may be to believe, some countries were always poorer and less advanced than others.

    For someone who touts himself as being pro-white, and labeling your fellow whites in Ireland as being Third World, you owe them an apology at best or turn in your white card at worst.

    Shut up.

    Doing it well. There is a skill set involved.

    A skill set that didn't have much use for ingenuity, which is what you claimed it took.

    That’s not what I stated. I said that “holding a patent is one such endeavor that shows ingenuity. So does being a successful farmer or entrepreneur.”

    Right, but since we've established that farming at the time really didn't take a whole lot of ingenuity, that leaves us with entrepreneurs, which few immigrants actually were.

    As an aside, the Green Revolution refers to the renovation of agricultural practices beginning in Mexico in the 1940′s. Imagine that, mestizos and innovations.

    And yet, SOMEHOW, this innovation still has not made Mexico a first-world country.

    It's starting to look as though a few people inventing things isn't what makes countries rich.

    And I never knew that Norman Borlaug was a mestizo anyway.

    Actually, it is not a fact.

    So you're counting George Baldwin Selden as the inventor of the automobile? Well, all right. I believe his family was here since the Founding, correct?

    Indeed, we still managed to have cars developed here in the States, thanks to immigrants. Henry Ford’s father was an immigrant from England. His mother was the youngest child of immigrants from Belgium. William Durant, who helped form General Motors, was the descendent of French immigrants.

    So your argument is that, if these guys hadn't started these companies, nobody else ever would have thought to do so. And we would have just stood around wondering how we could get cars, because nobody could have come up with the idea of building them. This is dumb.

    In 2014, Toyota launched the first production hydrogen fuel cell vehicle. That would be recent, right?

    It would actually be a perfect example of what I'm talking about, since the Japanese didn't invent fuel cells or cars, or the idea of putting a fuel cell IN a car. But knowing that those things existed, they were still able to make them, even though nobody immigrated to their country to invent them.

  142. anon says: • Disclaimer
    @Corvinus
    "Boy, all that, and they still managed to basically be a third-world country."

    Another damning comment related to white people. I thought white people were superior. How could they be "third world"?

    Remember, First, Second, and Third World is a byproduct of Cold War geography and international relations. Switzerland, Finland, Sweden, and Ireland were considered "Third World" because they did not align themselves with the U.S.S.R. or the U.S. They remained neutral.

    "Shut up."

    For someone who touts himself as being pro-white, and labeling your fellow whites in Ireland as being Third World, you owe them an apology at best or turn in your white card at worst.

    "Being a successful farmer prior to the Green Revolution mostly relied on knowing what people had done for centuries and doing it."

    Doing it well. There is a skill set involved.

    As an aside, the Green Revolution refers to the renovation of agricultural practices beginning in Mexico in the 1940's. Imagine that, mestizos and innovations.

    "I’m sick of this stupid fantasy people have that even a significant minority of immigrants were entrepreneurs. That never was true. Why do you keep saying it?"

    That's not what I stated. I said that "holding a patent is one such endeavor that shows ingenuity. So does being a successful farmer or entrepreneur."

    "Yes. Despite the fact that the automobile was invented in a completely different country, by someone who didn’t immigrate to the United States. We STILL managed to have an automotive industry anyway. Imagine that."

    Actually, it is not a fact.

    https://www.loc.gov/rr/scitech/mysteries/auto.html

    Indeed, we still managed to have cars developed here in the States, thanks to immigrants. Henry Ford's father was an immigrant from England. His mother was the youngest child of immigrants from Belgium. William Durant, who helped form General Motors, was the descendent of French immigrants.

    "People can want whatever they want. It doesn’t matter. Japan never invented anything recently. Yet they still make cars, TVs, electronics. All kinds of stuff."

    Recently is a relative term. Do you mean within the past 50 years? 30 years? 15 years?

    The world's first android, DER 01, was developed by a Japanese research group in 2003. That is a recent invention.

    In 2014, Toyota launched the first production hydrogen fuel cell vehicle. That would be recent, right?

    "Why do you keep coming here? You have nothing to say."

    Yet you keep responding with comments, so I do have something to say.

    How could they be “third world”?

    Do you see what I mean? Everything you say is asinine.

    Remember, First, Second, and Third World is a byproduct of Cold War geography and international relations.

    Well, the terms themselves are, but hard as it may be to believe, some countries were always poorer and less advanced than others.

    For someone who touts himself as being pro-white, and labeling your fellow whites in Ireland as being Third World, you owe them an apology at best or turn in your white card at worst.

    Shut up.

    Doing it well. There is a skill set involved.

    A skill set that didn’t have much use for ingenuity, which is what you claimed it took.

    That’s not what I stated. I said that “holding a patent is one such endeavor that shows ingenuity. So does being a successful farmer or entrepreneur.”

    Right, but since we’ve established that farming at the time really didn’t take a whole lot of ingenuity, that leaves us with entrepreneurs, which few immigrants actually were.

    As an aside, the Green Revolution refers to the renovation of agricultural practices beginning in Mexico in the 1940′s. Imagine that, mestizos and innovations.

    And yet, SOMEHOW, this innovation still has not made Mexico a first-world country.

    It’s starting to look as though a few people inventing things isn’t what makes countries rich.

    And I never knew that Norman Borlaug was a mestizo anyway.

    Actually, it is not a fact.

    So you’re counting George Baldwin Selden as the inventor of the automobile? Well, all right. I believe his family was here since the Founding, correct?

    Indeed, we still managed to have cars developed here in the States, thanks to immigrants. Henry Ford’s father was an immigrant from England. His mother was the youngest child of immigrants from Belgium. William Durant, who helped form General Motors, was the descendent of French immigrants.

    So your argument is that, if these guys hadn’t started these companies, nobody else ever would have thought to do so. And we would have just stood around wondering how we could get cars, because nobody could have come up with the idea of building them. This is dumb.

    In 2014, Toyota launched the first production hydrogen fuel cell vehicle. That would be recent, right?

    It would actually be a perfect example of what I’m talking about, since the Japanese didn’t invent fuel cells or cars, or the idea of putting a fuel cell IN a car. But knowing that those things existed, they were still able to make them, even though nobody immigrated to their country to invent them.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Corvinus
    "Well, the terms themselves are, but hard as it may be to believe, some countries were always poorer and less advanced than others."

    Right, Ireland, that white European hell hole. For someone who touts himself as being pro-white, and labeling your fellow whites in Ireland as being Third World, you owe them an apology at best or turn in your white card at worst.

    http://www.eubusiness.com/europe/ireland

    You are really unhappy as a person. Go to Ireland.

    http://www.thejournal.ie/ireland-comes-10th-in-uns-first-ever-world-happiness-report-407001-Apr2012/

    "And I never knew that Norman Borlaug was a mestizo anyway."

    He partnered with Mexico who led the way in new agricultural practices. You have difficulty giving credit where credit is due. Is that due to your nature or due to nurture?

    "So you’re counting George Baldwin Selden as the inventor of the automobile? Well, all right. I believe his family was here since the Founding, correct?"

    I'm not counting him, higher white IQ types are. Take it up with consumer affairs.

    "So your argument is that, if these guys hadn’t started these companies, nobody else ever would have thought to do so."

    That's your argument, Mr. Strawman. The point is that these people came from families who were immigrants and became entrepreneurs, and that these individuals had the insight and fortitude compared to others to not only get their company off the ground, but to be a prominent leader in that industry.

    "It would actually be a perfect example of what I’m talking about, since the Japanese didn’t invent fuel cells or cars, or the idea of putting a fuel cell IN a car."

    They recently invented the idea of the building a new car, the Toyota Mirai, that would have the first hydrogen fuel cell to be sold commercially.

    You are not that bright.

  143. @Frau Katze
    The Vietnamese killed a lot of American soldiers who were in Vietnam in a war.

    After the war ended, Vietnamese civilians did not travel to the USA in order to kill American civilians.

    Nor do descendants of Vietnamese migrants regularly attack Americans civilians.

    They have never done that.

    After the war ended, Vietnamese civilians did not travel to the USA in order to kill American civilians. Nor do descendants of Vietnamese migrants regularly attack Americans civilians.

    The Vietnamese stopped killing Americans after the United States withdrew from Vietnam. The United States has not withdrawn from Muslim homelands. That is the difference.

    Read More
    • Replies: @anon
    Well, since we're probably not going to withdraw from there anytime soon, that seems like a really good reason not to let them come here, doesn't it?
    , @Frau Katze
    Rubbish. Terrorism explicitly excludes killing of armed participants in a war.

    The US has in fact withdrawn from almost everywhere, during the Obama administration.

    You're being an apologist for a deadly ideology, one that's spread wildly in 1400 years, by being aggressive.

    You're either as crazy as any leftist or you're being troll. So don't bother answering. I'm done with this conversation.
  144. anon says: • Disclaimer
    @Opinionator
    After the war ended, Vietnamese civilians did not travel to the USA in order to kill American civilians. Nor do descendants of Vietnamese migrants regularly attack Americans civilians.

    The Vietnamese stopped killing Americans after the United States withdrew from Vietnam. The United States has not withdrawn from Muslim homelands. That is the difference.

    Well, since we’re probably not going to withdraw from there anytime soon, that seems like a really good reason not to let them come here, doesn’t it?

    Read More
  145. @Opinionator
    After the war ended, Vietnamese civilians did not travel to the USA in order to kill American civilians. Nor do descendants of Vietnamese migrants regularly attack Americans civilians.

    The Vietnamese stopped killing Americans after the United States withdrew from Vietnam. The United States has not withdrawn from Muslim homelands. That is the difference.

    Rubbish. Terrorism explicitly excludes killing of armed participants in a war.

    The US has in fact withdrawn from almost everywhere, during the Obama administration.

    You’re being an apologist for a deadly ideology, one that’s spread wildly in 1400 years, by being aggressive.

    You’re either as crazy as any leftist or you’re being troll. So don’t bother answering. I’m done with this conversation.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Opinionator
    Rubbish. Terrorism explicitly excludes killing of armed participants in a war.

    Like our firebombing of Tokyo and our nuking of Hiroshima and Nagasaki? The Brit's firebombing of Dresden? How about the 500,000 infant deaths in Iraq as a result of our sanctions on that country, deaths that Madeleine Albright termed "worth it"?

    The US has in fact withdrawn from almost everywhere, during the Obama administration.

    We are bombing about 5-7 countries right now, are maintaining soldiers in many, and are actively collaborating with Israel in the Jews' violent conquest of Palestine.
  146. @anon
    Well, since we're probably not going to withdraw from there anytime soon, that seems like a really good reason not to let them come here, doesn't it?

    There are many good reasons.

    Read More
  147. @Frau Katze
    Rubbish. Terrorism explicitly excludes killing of armed participants in a war.

    The US has in fact withdrawn from almost everywhere, during the Obama administration.

    You're being an apologist for a deadly ideology, one that's spread wildly in 1400 years, by being aggressive.

    You're either as crazy as any leftist or you're being troll. So don't bother answering. I'm done with this conversation.

    Rubbish. Terrorism explicitly excludes killing of armed participants in a war.

    Like our firebombing of Tokyo and our nuking of Hiroshima and Nagasaki? The Brit’s firebombing of Dresden? How about the 500,000 infant deaths in Iraq as a result of our sanctions on that country, deaths that Madeleine Albright termed “worth it”?

    The US has in fact withdrawn from almost everywhere, during the Obama administration.

    We are bombing about 5-7 countries right now, are maintaining soldiers in many, and are actively collaborating with Israel in the Jews’ violent conquest of Palestine.

    Read More
  148. Corvinus says:
    @anon
    How could they be “third world”?

    Do you see what I mean? Everything you say is asinine.

    Remember, First, Second, and Third World is a byproduct of Cold War geography and international relations.

    Well, the terms themselves are, but hard as it may be to believe, some countries were always poorer and less advanced than others.

    For someone who touts himself as being pro-white, and labeling your fellow whites in Ireland as being Third World, you owe them an apology at best or turn in your white card at worst.

    Shut up.

    Doing it well. There is a skill set involved.

    A skill set that didn't have much use for ingenuity, which is what you claimed it took.

    That’s not what I stated. I said that “holding a patent is one such endeavor that shows ingenuity. So does being a successful farmer or entrepreneur.”

    Right, but since we've established that farming at the time really didn't take a whole lot of ingenuity, that leaves us with entrepreneurs, which few immigrants actually were.

    As an aside, the Green Revolution refers to the renovation of agricultural practices beginning in Mexico in the 1940′s. Imagine that, mestizos and innovations.

    And yet, SOMEHOW, this innovation still has not made Mexico a first-world country.

    It's starting to look as though a few people inventing things isn't what makes countries rich.

    And I never knew that Norman Borlaug was a mestizo anyway.

    Actually, it is not a fact.

    So you're counting George Baldwin Selden as the inventor of the automobile? Well, all right. I believe his family was here since the Founding, correct?

    Indeed, we still managed to have cars developed here in the States, thanks to immigrants. Henry Ford’s father was an immigrant from England. His mother was the youngest child of immigrants from Belgium. William Durant, who helped form General Motors, was the descendent of French immigrants.

    So your argument is that, if these guys hadn't started these companies, nobody else ever would have thought to do so. And we would have just stood around wondering how we could get cars, because nobody could have come up with the idea of building them. This is dumb.

    In 2014, Toyota launched the first production hydrogen fuel cell vehicle. That would be recent, right?

    It would actually be a perfect example of what I'm talking about, since the Japanese didn't invent fuel cells or cars, or the idea of putting a fuel cell IN a car. But knowing that those things existed, they were still able to make them, even though nobody immigrated to their country to invent them.

    “Well, the terms themselves are, but hard as it may be to believe, some countries were always poorer and less advanced than others.”

    Right, Ireland, that white European hell hole. For someone who touts himself as being pro-white, and labeling your fellow whites in Ireland as being Third World, you owe them an apology at best or turn in your white card at worst.

    http://www.eubusiness.com/europe/ireland

    You are really unhappy as a person. Go to Ireland.

    http://www.thejournal.ie/ireland-comes-10th-in-uns-first-ever-world-happiness-report-407001-Apr2012/

    “And I never knew that Norman Borlaug was a mestizo anyway.”

    He partnered with Mexico who led the way in new agricultural practices. You have difficulty giving credit where credit is due. Is that due to your nature or due to nurture?

    “So you’re counting George Baldwin Selden as the inventor of the automobile? Well, all right. I believe his family was here since the Founding, correct?”

    I’m not counting him, higher white IQ types are. Take it up with consumer affairs.

    “So your argument is that, if these guys hadn’t started these companies, nobody else ever would have thought to do so.”

    That’s your argument, Mr. Strawman. The point is that these people came from families who were immigrants and became entrepreneurs, and that these individuals had the insight and fortitude compared to others to not only get their company off the ground, but to be a prominent leader in that industry.

    “It would actually be a perfect example of what I’m talking about, since the Japanese didn’t invent fuel cells or cars, or the idea of putting a fuel cell IN a car.”

    They recently invented the idea of the building a new car, the Toyota Mirai, that would have the first hydrogen fuel cell to be sold commercially.

    You are not that bright.

    Read More
    • Replies: @anon
    Right, Ireland, that white European hell hole. For someone who touts himself as being pro-white, and labeling your fellow whites in Ireland as being Third World, you owe them an apology at best or turn in your white card at worst.

    I realize that your IQ is far too low to understand this, but even if EVERY person on earth was white, some countries would be richer than others. Some of them would be the poorest countries in the world, making them "third world".

    http://www.eubusiness.com/europe/ireland

    Did you even notice how the very first sentence on that page contrasted the powerful economy of Ireland today with its relative backwater status a mere forty or so years ago? I bet you didn't.

    He partnered with Mexico who led the way in new agricultural practices. You have difficulty giving credit where credit is due. Is that due to your nature or due to nurture?

    It's not me. Look at the International Maize and Wheat Improvement Center, headquartered in Texcoco, Mexico. It's the Mexican organization that the Rockefeller Foundation started with the Mexican government. Its current director general is noted mestizo Martin Kroppf, who took over after famed mestizo Thomas Lumpkin.

    Why don't you look up the actual scientists who developed all the new agricultural techniques. Tell me how many of them had less than 90% European heritage.

    It's kind of like how people talk about great Mexican inventions like birth control, which was of course invented by a European who just happened to move to Mexico as an adult.

    I’m not counting him, higher white IQ types are. Take it up with consumer affairs.

    OK, then. We DIDN'T need immigrants to invent cars, because the car was, according to you, invented by a founding stock American, and the first car company was started by the Duryea brothers, who were also founding stock Americans. No immigrants necessary, meaning you've wasted hours trying to prove a point that you don't even apparently believe in.

    The point is that these people came from families who were immigrants and became entrepreneurs, and that these individuals had the insight and fortitude compared to others to not only get their company off the ground, but to be a prominent leader in that industry.

    And if anyone had ever claimed that no single immigrant ever started a business, that would be a good point.

    They recently invented the idea of the building a new car, the Toyota Mirai, that would have the first hydrogen fuel cell to be sold commercially.

    If George Baldwin Selden invented the automobile, despite having never produced a single one, then the fuel cell car was invented decades ago, by people around the world. None of whom, I can be fairly confident, ever moved to Japan.

  149. anon says: • Disclaimer
    @Corvinus
    "Well, the terms themselves are, but hard as it may be to believe, some countries were always poorer and less advanced than others."

    Right, Ireland, that white European hell hole. For someone who touts himself as being pro-white, and labeling your fellow whites in Ireland as being Third World, you owe them an apology at best or turn in your white card at worst.

    http://www.eubusiness.com/europe/ireland

    You are really unhappy as a person. Go to Ireland.

    http://www.thejournal.ie/ireland-comes-10th-in-uns-first-ever-world-happiness-report-407001-Apr2012/

    "And I never knew that Norman Borlaug was a mestizo anyway."

    He partnered with Mexico who led the way in new agricultural practices. You have difficulty giving credit where credit is due. Is that due to your nature or due to nurture?

    "So you’re counting George Baldwin Selden as the inventor of the automobile? Well, all right. I believe his family was here since the Founding, correct?"

    I'm not counting him, higher white IQ types are. Take it up with consumer affairs.

    "So your argument is that, if these guys hadn’t started these companies, nobody else ever would have thought to do so."

    That's your argument, Mr. Strawman. The point is that these people came from families who were immigrants and became entrepreneurs, and that these individuals had the insight and fortitude compared to others to not only get their company off the ground, but to be a prominent leader in that industry.

    "It would actually be a perfect example of what I’m talking about, since the Japanese didn’t invent fuel cells or cars, or the idea of putting a fuel cell IN a car."

    They recently invented the idea of the building a new car, the Toyota Mirai, that would have the first hydrogen fuel cell to be sold commercially.

    You are not that bright.

    Right, Ireland, that white European hell hole. For someone who touts himself as being pro-white, and labeling your fellow whites in Ireland as being Third World, you owe them an apology at best or turn in your white card at worst.

    I realize that your IQ is far too low to understand this, but even if EVERY person on earth was white, some countries would be richer than others. Some of them would be the poorest countries in the world, making them “third world”.

    http://www.eubusiness.com/europe/ireland

    Did you even notice how the very first sentence on that page contrasted the powerful economy of Ireland today with its relative backwater status a mere forty or so years ago? I bet you didn’t.

    He partnered with Mexico who led the way in new agricultural practices. You have difficulty giving credit where credit is due. Is that due to your nature or due to nurture?

    It’s not me. Look at the International Maize and Wheat Improvement Center, headquartered in Texcoco, Mexico. It’s the Mexican organization that the Rockefeller Foundation started with the Mexican government. Its current director general is noted mestizo Martin Kroppf, who took over after famed mestizo Thomas Lumpkin.

    Why don’t you look up the actual scientists who developed all the new agricultural techniques. Tell me how many of them had less than 90% European heritage.

    It’s kind of like how people talk about great Mexican inventions like birth control, which was of course invented by a European who just happened to move to Mexico as an adult.

    I’m not counting him, higher white IQ types are. Take it up with consumer affairs.

    OK, then. We DIDN’T need immigrants to invent cars, because the car was, according to you, invented by a founding stock American, and the first car company was started by the Duryea brothers, who were also founding stock Americans. No immigrants necessary, meaning you’ve wasted hours trying to prove a point that you don’t even apparently believe in.

    The point is that these people came from families who were immigrants and became entrepreneurs, and that these individuals had the insight and fortitude compared to others to not only get their company off the ground, but to be a prominent leader in that industry.

    And if anyone had ever claimed that no single immigrant ever started a business, that would be a good point.

    They recently invented the idea of the building a new car, the Toyota Mirai, that would have the first hydrogen fuel cell to be sold commercially.

    If George Baldwin Selden invented the automobile, despite having never produced a single one, then the fuel cell car was invented decades ago, by people around the world. None of whom, I can be fairly confident, ever moved to Japan.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Corvinus
    "I realize that your IQ is far too low to understand this, but even if EVERY person on earth was white, some countries would be richer than others. Some of them would be the poorest countries in the world, making them “third world”."

    Except Ireland is other than a poor country. You used an outdated political system to label several European countries as being Third World, with that designation, as I correctly noted, referring to their status as a neutral country during the Cold War. When employing current economic metrics, Ireland is NOT Third World.

    Thanks for verifying your anti-white colors.

    "It’s the Mexican organization that the Rockefeller Foundation started with the Mexican government."

    Exactly, Mexican organization that received a small grant to Mexico to fund their plans for maize research, in collaboration with then new president, Manuel Ávila Camacho and with help from American scientists. How dare we help those bandits!

    "Why don’t you look up the actual scientists who developed all the new agricultural techniques."

    All of whom had immigrant roots, who give credit (imagine that) to Mexican farmers for implementing and improving those techniques.

    "We DIDN’T need immigrants to invent cars, because the car was, according to you, invented by a founding stock American, and the first car company was started by the Duryea brothers, who were also founding stock Americans. No immigrants necessary, meaning you’ve wasted hours trying to prove a point that you don’t even apparently believe in."

    Not founding stock Americans, Americans who had immigrant roots--Ford, Duryea, and Seldon. Ford's mother was from Belgium. Had she not come to the States, obviously there would be no Ford Automobile Company. So immigrants were obviously critical to this endeavor.

    The American car industry would have started without these three individuals, but probably would have languished considering they were at the forefront.
  150. @Corvinus
    "The United States did cause World War II, first through its involvement in World War I, its outcome, and the terms of its conclusion, and then both by its emboldening of Britain in the late 1930s and by its meddling against Germany and Japan prior to formalizing the hostilities."

    Now you're just trolling. By all means, offer me those historians who posit this theory or provide specific evidence to lend support to your conclusion.

    "As for the Civil War, the North couldn’t have won, and probably wouldn’t have tried, without its abundance of immigrant cannon fodder."

    The North may not have one, and they probably may have tried, given Lincoln's commitment from stopping the expansion of slavery in the new territories and allowing it to continue in the South. Indeed, immigrants and the sons of immigrants made up about 43% of the northern military. They volunteered, fought, and sacrificed beyond what might be expected of "strangers". Why? To show loyalty to their new nation, to remove the scourge of slavery, to fight for personal honor.

    You should know better than to expect the victors’ historians to expressly incriminate the victors.

    Having said that, one needn’t look faro to find mainstream citations that identify, however obliquely, World War I and its outcome as causal factors in the start of World War II.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Corvinus
    "You should know better than to expect the victors’ historians to expressly incriminate the victors."

    No, you're not getting off that easy. You made a claim. I am assuming that you are able to find evidence to support it. You do realize not all historians think the same way.

    "Having said that, one needn’t look faro to find mainstream citations that identify, however obliquely, World War I and its outcome as causal factors in the start of World War II."

    No, you need to find citations or evidence to back up your position that the United States did cause World War II in the particular manner you stated; otherwise, retract your assertion.
  151. Corvinus says:
    @anon
    Right, Ireland, that white European hell hole. For someone who touts himself as being pro-white, and labeling your fellow whites in Ireland as being Third World, you owe them an apology at best or turn in your white card at worst.

    I realize that your IQ is far too low to understand this, but even if EVERY person on earth was white, some countries would be richer than others. Some of them would be the poorest countries in the world, making them "third world".

    http://www.eubusiness.com/europe/ireland

    Did you even notice how the very first sentence on that page contrasted the powerful economy of Ireland today with its relative backwater status a mere forty or so years ago? I bet you didn't.

    He partnered with Mexico who led the way in new agricultural practices. You have difficulty giving credit where credit is due. Is that due to your nature or due to nurture?

    It's not me. Look at the International Maize and Wheat Improvement Center, headquartered in Texcoco, Mexico. It's the Mexican organization that the Rockefeller Foundation started with the Mexican government. Its current director general is noted mestizo Martin Kroppf, who took over after famed mestizo Thomas Lumpkin.

    Why don't you look up the actual scientists who developed all the new agricultural techniques. Tell me how many of them had less than 90% European heritage.

    It's kind of like how people talk about great Mexican inventions like birth control, which was of course invented by a European who just happened to move to Mexico as an adult.

    I’m not counting him, higher white IQ types are. Take it up with consumer affairs.

    OK, then. We DIDN'T need immigrants to invent cars, because the car was, according to you, invented by a founding stock American, and the first car company was started by the Duryea brothers, who were also founding stock Americans. No immigrants necessary, meaning you've wasted hours trying to prove a point that you don't even apparently believe in.

    The point is that these people came from families who were immigrants and became entrepreneurs, and that these individuals had the insight and fortitude compared to others to not only get their company off the ground, but to be a prominent leader in that industry.

    And if anyone had ever claimed that no single immigrant ever started a business, that would be a good point.

    They recently invented the idea of the building a new car, the Toyota Mirai, that would have the first hydrogen fuel cell to be sold commercially.

    If George Baldwin Selden invented the automobile, despite having never produced a single one, then the fuel cell car was invented decades ago, by people around the world. None of whom, I can be fairly confident, ever moved to Japan.

    “I realize that your IQ is far too low to understand this, but even if EVERY person on earth was white, some countries would be richer than others. Some of them would be the poorest countries in the world, making them “third world”.”

    Except Ireland is other than a poor country. You used an outdated political system to label several European countries as being Third World, with that designation, as I correctly noted, referring to their status as a neutral country during the Cold War. When employing current economic metrics, Ireland is NOT Third World.

    Thanks for verifying your anti-white colors.

    “It’s the Mexican organization that the Rockefeller Foundation started with the Mexican government.”

    Exactly, Mexican organization that received a small grant to Mexico to fund their plans for maize research, in collaboration with then new president, Manuel Ávila Camacho and with help from American scientists. How dare we help those bandits!

    “Why don’t you look up the actual scientists who developed all the new agricultural techniques.”

    All of whom had immigrant roots, who give credit (imagine that) to Mexican farmers for implementing and improving those techniques.

    “We DIDN’T need immigrants to invent cars, because the car was, according to you, invented by a founding stock American, and the first car company was started by the Duryea brothers, who were also founding stock Americans. No immigrants necessary, meaning you’ve wasted hours trying to prove a point that you don’t even apparently believe in.”

    Not founding stock Americans, Americans who had immigrant roots–Ford, Duryea, and Seldon. Ford’s mother was from Belgium. Had she not come to the States, obviously there would be no Ford Automobile Company. So immigrants were obviously critical to this endeavor.

    The American car industry would have started without these three individuals, but probably would have languished considering they were at the forefront.

    Read More
    • Replies: @anon
    When employing current economic metrics, Ireland is NOT Third World.

    But the reason they're not third world now has nothing to do with Boyle's law or the invention of the kyanizing process.

    All of whom had immigrant roots, who give credit (imagine that) to Mexican farmers for implementing and improving those techniques.


    Yes. Mexico needed immigrants to give them scientific progress. The USA and Japan don't. I would think, by now, that you would start to figure out the pattern, but for some reason, you can't.

    It is a widely established that, when white people tell mestizos what to do, the mestizos can perform agricultural labor. It's so widely established that, when people talk about the alleged need to bring in more mestizos, they invariably bring it up. But, for some reason, this widely noted tendency hasn't made their country rich.

    Not founding stock Americans, Americans who had immigrant roots–Ford, Duryea, and Seldon.


    Seldon's family had been here since the founding of tbe United States, and I'm fairly certain Duryea's family was too. So, unless byn"immigrant roots", you mean non-Native-Americans, you are incorrect.

    And it's hilarious that, of the immigrants you think we needed, it was an ENGLISH immigrant, which is the kind the Know-Nothings would have cared about least.

    Did the Know-Nothings even care about immigrants from England at all? That would be something to look up.

    The American car industry would have started without these three individuals, but probably would have languished considering they were at the forefront.


    Probably not. What probably would happen is that, right now, you'd be driving a Pierce Motors car, or a Duryea Motors car, or who knows? Maybe even a Tucker Car Corporation car!
    , @Hippopotamusdrome


    Ford’s mother was from Belgium.

     

    Belgian = not Mexican.
  152. Corvinus says:
    @Opinionator
    You should know better than to expect the victors' historians to expressly incriminate the victors.

    Having said that, one needn't look faro to find mainstream citations that identify, however obliquely, World War I and its outcome as causal factors in the start of World War II.

    “You should know better than to expect the victors’ historians to expressly incriminate the victors.”

    No, you’re not getting off that easy. You made a claim. I am assuming that you are able to find evidence to support it. You do realize not all historians think the same way.

    “Having said that, one needn’t look faro to find mainstream citations that identify, however obliquely, World War I and its outcome as causal factors in the start of World War II.”

    No, you need to find citations or evidence to back up your position that the United States did cause World War II in the particular manner you stated; otherwise, retract your assertion.

    Read More
  153. anon says: • Disclaimer
    @Corvinus
    "I realize that your IQ is far too low to understand this, but even if EVERY person on earth was white, some countries would be richer than others. Some of them would be the poorest countries in the world, making them “third world”."

    Except Ireland is other than a poor country. You used an outdated political system to label several European countries as being Third World, with that designation, as I correctly noted, referring to their status as a neutral country during the Cold War. When employing current economic metrics, Ireland is NOT Third World.

    Thanks for verifying your anti-white colors.

    "It’s the Mexican organization that the Rockefeller Foundation started with the Mexican government."

    Exactly, Mexican organization that received a small grant to Mexico to fund their plans for maize research, in collaboration with then new president, Manuel Ávila Camacho and with help from American scientists. How dare we help those bandits!

    "Why don’t you look up the actual scientists who developed all the new agricultural techniques."

    All of whom had immigrant roots, who give credit (imagine that) to Mexican farmers for implementing and improving those techniques.

    "We DIDN’T need immigrants to invent cars, because the car was, according to you, invented by a founding stock American, and the first car company was started by the Duryea brothers, who were also founding stock Americans. No immigrants necessary, meaning you’ve wasted hours trying to prove a point that you don’t even apparently believe in."

    Not founding stock Americans, Americans who had immigrant roots--Ford, Duryea, and Seldon. Ford's mother was from Belgium. Had she not come to the States, obviously there would be no Ford Automobile Company. So immigrants were obviously critical to this endeavor.

    The American car industry would have started without these three individuals, but probably would have languished considering they were at the forefront.

    When employing current economic metrics, Ireland is NOT Third World.

    But the reason they’re not third world now has nothing to do with Boyle’s law or the invention of the kyanizing process.

    All of whom had immigrant roots, who give credit (imagine that) to Mexican farmers for implementing and improving those techniques.

    Yes. Mexico needed immigrants to give them scientific progress. The USA and Japan don’t. I would think, by now, that you would start to figure out the pattern, but for some reason, you can’t.

    It is a widely established that, when white people tell mestizos what to do, the mestizos can perform agricultural labor. It’s so widely established that, when people talk about the alleged need to bring in more mestizos, they invariably bring it up. But, for some reason, this widely noted tendency hasn’t made their country rich.

    Not founding stock Americans, Americans who had immigrant roots–Ford, Duryea, and Seldon.

    Seldon’s family had been here since the founding of tbe United States, and I’m fairly certain Duryea’s family was too. So, unless byn”immigrant roots”, you mean non-Native-Americans, you are incorrect.

    And it’s hilarious that, of the immigrants you think we needed, it was an ENGLISH immigrant, which is the kind the Know-Nothings would have cared about least.

    Did the Know-Nothings even care about immigrants from England at all? That would be something to look up.

    The American car industry would have started without these three individuals, but probably would have languished considering they were at the forefront.

    Probably not. What probably would happen is that, right now, you’d be driving a Pierce Motors car, or a Duryea Motors car, or who knows? Maybe even a Tucker Car Corporation car!

    Read More
    • Replies: @Corvinus
    "But the reason they’re not third world now has nothing to do with Boyle’s law or the invention of the kyanizing process."

    So now Ireland is NOT Third World? Are you able to keep your stories straight? Listen, I get it, you have to show repentance for your anti-white statements.

    "Yes. Mexico needed immigrants to give them scientific progress. The USA and Japan don’t. I would think, by now, that you would start to figure out the pattern, but for some reason, you can’t."

    Of course we needed immigrants to advance as a society. That is a historical phenomenon--people conquer lands, they call in their friends to help settle, and they make a life for themselves by innovating. Are you really that dense?

    "It is a widely established that, when white people tell mestizos what to do, the mestizos can perform agricultural labor. It’s so widely established that, when people talk about the alleged need to bring in more mestizos, they invariably bring it up."

    Indeed, it is well known that Europeans enjoy bossing around non-Europeans.

    But, for some reason, this widely noted tendency hasn’t made their country rich."

    Assuming that wealth is THE standard that defines a civilization. Remember, Mexico had riches, until they were pillaged and plundered by those intervening Europeans. Invade the world, invite the world...ain't that a mother!

    "Seldon’s family had been here since the founding of tbe United States, and I’m fairly certain Duryea’s family was too."

    Yes, immigrants.

    "And it’s hilarious that, of the immigrants you think we needed, it was an ENGLISH immigrant, which is the kind the Know-Nothings would have cared about least."

    They cared about limiting immigration, including the English. Remember, immigrants regardless of their race or ethnicity are invaders, that's what you believe, right? One more English immigrant is another job lost to native sons.

    "Probably not. What probably would happen is that, right now, you’d be driving a Pierce Motors car, or a Duryea Motors car, or who knows? Maybe even a Tucker Car Corporation car!"

    It really troubles you to give credit where credit is due. Again, is that in-born or environment on your part?
  154. @Corvinus
    "I realize that your IQ is far too low to understand this, but even if EVERY person on earth was white, some countries would be richer than others. Some of them would be the poorest countries in the world, making them “third world”."

    Except Ireland is other than a poor country. You used an outdated political system to label several European countries as being Third World, with that designation, as I correctly noted, referring to their status as a neutral country during the Cold War. When employing current economic metrics, Ireland is NOT Third World.

    Thanks for verifying your anti-white colors.

    "It’s the Mexican organization that the Rockefeller Foundation started with the Mexican government."

    Exactly, Mexican organization that received a small grant to Mexico to fund their plans for maize research, in collaboration with then new president, Manuel Ávila Camacho and with help from American scientists. How dare we help those bandits!

    "Why don’t you look up the actual scientists who developed all the new agricultural techniques."

    All of whom had immigrant roots, who give credit (imagine that) to Mexican farmers for implementing and improving those techniques.

    "We DIDN’T need immigrants to invent cars, because the car was, according to you, invented by a founding stock American, and the first car company was started by the Duryea brothers, who were also founding stock Americans. No immigrants necessary, meaning you’ve wasted hours trying to prove a point that you don’t even apparently believe in."

    Not founding stock Americans, Americans who had immigrant roots--Ford, Duryea, and Seldon. Ford's mother was from Belgium. Had she not come to the States, obviously there would be no Ford Automobile Company. So immigrants were obviously critical to this endeavor.

    The American car industry would have started without these three individuals, but probably would have languished considering they were at the forefront.

    Ford’s mother was from Belgium.

    Belgian = not Mexican.

    Read More
  155. Corvinus says:
    @anon
    When employing current economic metrics, Ireland is NOT Third World.

    But the reason they're not third world now has nothing to do with Boyle's law or the invention of the kyanizing process.

    All of whom had immigrant roots, who give credit (imagine that) to Mexican farmers for implementing and improving those techniques.


    Yes. Mexico needed immigrants to give them scientific progress. The USA and Japan don't. I would think, by now, that you would start to figure out the pattern, but for some reason, you can't.

    It is a widely established that, when white people tell mestizos what to do, the mestizos can perform agricultural labor. It's so widely established that, when people talk about the alleged need to bring in more mestizos, they invariably bring it up. But, for some reason, this widely noted tendency hasn't made their country rich.

    Not founding stock Americans, Americans who had immigrant roots–Ford, Duryea, and Seldon.


    Seldon's family had been here since the founding of tbe United States, and I'm fairly certain Duryea's family was too. So, unless byn"immigrant roots", you mean non-Native-Americans, you are incorrect.

    And it's hilarious that, of the immigrants you think we needed, it was an ENGLISH immigrant, which is the kind the Know-Nothings would have cared about least.

    Did the Know-Nothings even care about immigrants from England at all? That would be something to look up.

    The American car industry would have started without these three individuals, but probably would have languished considering they were at the forefront.


    Probably not. What probably would happen is that, right now, you'd be driving a Pierce Motors car, or a Duryea Motors car, or who knows? Maybe even a Tucker Car Corporation car!

    “But the reason they’re not third world now has nothing to do with Boyle’s law or the invention of the kyanizing process.”

    So now Ireland is NOT Third World? Are you able to keep your stories straight? Listen, I get it, you have to show repentance for your anti-white statements.

    “Yes. Mexico needed immigrants to give them scientific progress. The USA and Japan don’t. I would think, by now, that you would start to figure out the pattern, but for some reason, you can’t.”

    Of course we needed immigrants to advance as a society. That is a historical phenomenon–people conquer lands, they call in their friends to help settle, and they make a life for themselves by innovating. Are you really that dense?

    “It is a widely established that, when white people tell mestizos what to do, the mestizos can perform agricultural labor. It’s so widely established that, when people talk about the alleged need to bring in more mestizos, they invariably bring it up.”

    Indeed, it is well known that Europeans enjoy bossing around non-Europeans.

    But, for some reason, this widely noted tendency hasn’t made their country rich.”

    Assuming that wealth is THE standard that defines a civilization. Remember, Mexico had riches, until they were pillaged and plundered by those intervening Europeans. Invade the world, invite the world…ain’t that a mother!

    “Seldon’s family had been here since the founding of tbe United States, and I’m fairly certain Duryea’s family was too.”

    Yes, immigrants.

    “And it’s hilarious that, of the immigrants you think we needed, it was an ENGLISH immigrant, which is the kind the Know-Nothings would have cared about least.”

    They cared about limiting immigration, including the English. Remember, immigrants regardless of their race or ethnicity are invaders, that’s what you believe, right? One more English immigrant is another job lost to native sons.

    “Probably not. What probably would happen is that, right now, you’d be driving a Pierce Motors car, or a Duryea Motors car, or who knows? Maybe even a Tucker Car Corporation car!”

    It really troubles you to give credit where credit is due. Again, is that in-born or environment on your part?

    Read More
    • Replies: @anon
    So now Ireland is NOT Third World? Are you able to keep your stories straight?

    Do you know the difference between "was" and "is"?

    Of course we needed immigrants to advance as a society.

    If you mean that we needed white people to come in and move out the Indians, then I suppose this is true. Hell, they couldn't even figure out the wheel.

    Indeed, it is well known that Europeans enjoy bossing around non-Europeans.

    And where, pray tell, would you be without us? Living in a hut somewhere? If the non-Europeans don't like it, why are they so desperate to come here and be bossed around by us? I would be perfectly happy if they stayed at home and didn't get bossed around by white people. For some reason, that's not good enough for them.

    Assuming that wealth is THE standard that defines a civilization.

    YOU were assuming that, when you said that "American greatness" was based on how great our automotive industry is.

    Remember, Mexico had riches, until they were pillaged and plundered by those intervening Europeans. Invade the world, invite the world…ain’t that a mother!


    Yes, and they even invented open-heart surgery. Which they practiced on hundreds of people a day sometimes.

    Granted, the tribes they practiced this open-heart surgery upon weren't always so grateful about it, but who cares about them?

    Yes, immigrants.

    So, if you're counting all non-Native-Americans as "immigrants", then obviously we needed "immigrants". Indians weren't able to invent anything, I agree. Well, unless you count human sacrifice and cannibalism, anyway.

    Remember, immigrants regardless of their race or ethnicity are invaders, that’s what you believe, right?

    No, and I'm pretty sure it wasn't what the Know-Nothings believed either.

    It really troubles you to give credit where credit is due.

    No it isn't. I give credit to all kinds of white people and Asians, who, unlike others, were capable of inventing things. None of which means we need to bring any of them here, of course.

    Again, is that in-born or environment on your part?

    You said before that you were an average white American. Were you lying about that? Explaining things to you is like trying to explain the Trayvon Martin case to a black person. You have to go over and over and over the same things, and they just couldn't ever get it. They would say stupid, completely irrelevant things, and act like they made a really good point.
  156. anon says: • Disclaimer
    @Corvinus
    "But the reason they’re not third world now has nothing to do with Boyle’s law or the invention of the kyanizing process."

    So now Ireland is NOT Third World? Are you able to keep your stories straight? Listen, I get it, you have to show repentance for your anti-white statements.

    "Yes. Mexico needed immigrants to give them scientific progress. The USA and Japan don’t. I would think, by now, that you would start to figure out the pattern, but for some reason, you can’t."

    Of course we needed immigrants to advance as a society. That is a historical phenomenon--people conquer lands, they call in their friends to help settle, and they make a life for themselves by innovating. Are you really that dense?

    "It is a widely established that, when white people tell mestizos what to do, the mestizos can perform agricultural labor. It’s so widely established that, when people talk about the alleged need to bring in more mestizos, they invariably bring it up."

    Indeed, it is well known that Europeans enjoy bossing around non-Europeans.

    But, for some reason, this widely noted tendency hasn’t made their country rich."

    Assuming that wealth is THE standard that defines a civilization. Remember, Mexico had riches, until they were pillaged and plundered by those intervening Europeans. Invade the world, invite the world...ain't that a mother!

    "Seldon’s family had been here since the founding of tbe United States, and I’m fairly certain Duryea’s family was too."

    Yes, immigrants.

    "And it’s hilarious that, of the immigrants you think we needed, it was an ENGLISH immigrant, which is the kind the Know-Nothings would have cared about least."

    They cared about limiting immigration, including the English. Remember, immigrants regardless of their race or ethnicity are invaders, that's what you believe, right? One more English immigrant is another job lost to native sons.

    "Probably not. What probably would happen is that, right now, you’d be driving a Pierce Motors car, or a Duryea Motors car, or who knows? Maybe even a Tucker Car Corporation car!"

    It really troubles you to give credit where credit is due. Again, is that in-born or environment on your part?

    So now Ireland is NOT Third World? Are you able to keep your stories straight?

    Do you know the difference between “was” and “is”?

    Of course we needed immigrants to advance as a society.

    If you mean that we needed white people to come in and move out the Indians, then I suppose this is true. Hell, they couldn’t even figure out the wheel.

    Indeed, it is well known that Europeans enjoy bossing around non-Europeans.

    And where, pray tell, would you be without us? Living in a hut somewhere? If the non-Europeans don’t like it, why are they so desperate to come here and be bossed around by us? I would be perfectly happy if they stayed at home and didn’t get bossed around by white people. For some reason, that’s not good enough for them.

    Assuming that wealth is THE standard that defines a civilization.

    YOU were assuming that, when you said that “American greatness” was based on how great our automotive industry is.

    Remember, Mexico had riches, until they were pillaged and plundered by those intervening Europeans. Invade the world, invite the world…ain’t that a mother!

    Yes, and they even invented open-heart surgery. Which they practiced on hundreds of people a day sometimes.

    Granted, the tribes they practiced this open-heart surgery upon weren’t always so grateful about it, but who cares about them?

    Yes, immigrants.

    So, if you’re counting all non-Native-Americans as “immigrants”, then obviously we needed “immigrants”. Indians weren’t able to invent anything, I agree. Well, unless you count human sacrifice and cannibalism, anyway.

    Remember, immigrants regardless of their race or ethnicity are invaders, that’s what you believe, right?

    No, and I’m pretty sure it wasn’t what the Know-Nothings believed either.

    It really troubles you to give credit where credit is due.

    No it isn’t. I give credit to all kinds of white people and Asians, who, unlike others, were capable of inventing things. None of which means we need to bring any of them here, of course.

    Again, is that in-born or environment on your part?

    You said before that you were an average white American. Were you lying about that? Explaining things to you is like trying to explain the Trayvon Martin case to a black person. You have to go over and over and over the same things, and they just couldn’t ever get it. They would say stupid, completely irrelevant things, and act like they made a really good point.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Corvinus
    "Do you know the difference between “was” and “is”?"

    You're still losing your white card with your comments that denigrated the Irish.

    "If you mean that we needed white people to come in and move out the Indians, then I suppose this is true."

    There was no need, just greed.

    "Hell, they couldn’t even figure out the wheel."

    From wikipedia...Contrary to popular belief, the Native Americans (from ancient Meso-America) did in fact invent the wheel. However, unlike the ancient civilizations in Eurasia and Africa such as China, Persia, Egypt, Greece, Rome, India, and others where the presence of draft animals facilitated the use of wheel to haul cargo, food, and people in the form of wagons, the ancient Mexicans, who independently invented the wheel, had access to no draft animals at their disposal, which could be used to assist in hauling goods using wagons. The Andean civilizations did domesticate llama and alpaca to haul luggage and goods, but they did not have access to the wheel. In addition, llama and alpaca were not strong enough animals, such as horses, cows, and bullocks, that could be used to haul heavy cargo-laden wagons. The ancient Mexican peoples who invented the wheel independent of any Old World influences, actually used the wheels as bases of miniature children's toys and not for transporting any goods and people across vast distances."

    You're not that bright.

    "Indians weren’t able to invent anything, I agree."

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Native_American_contributions

    https://indiancountrymedianetwork.com/history/events/10-native-inventions-and-innovations-that-changed-the-world/

    You're not that bright.
  157. Corvinus says:
    @anon
    So now Ireland is NOT Third World? Are you able to keep your stories straight?

    Do you know the difference between "was" and "is"?

    Of course we needed immigrants to advance as a society.

    If you mean that we needed white people to come in and move out the Indians, then I suppose this is true. Hell, they couldn't even figure out the wheel.

    Indeed, it is well known that Europeans enjoy bossing around non-Europeans.

    And where, pray tell, would you be without us? Living in a hut somewhere? If the non-Europeans don't like it, why are they so desperate to come here and be bossed around by us? I would be perfectly happy if they stayed at home and didn't get bossed around by white people. For some reason, that's not good enough for them.

    Assuming that wealth is THE standard that defines a civilization.

    YOU were assuming that, when you said that "American greatness" was based on how great our automotive industry is.

    Remember, Mexico had riches, until they were pillaged and plundered by those intervening Europeans. Invade the world, invite the world…ain’t that a mother!


    Yes, and they even invented open-heart surgery. Which they practiced on hundreds of people a day sometimes.

    Granted, the tribes they practiced this open-heart surgery upon weren't always so grateful about it, but who cares about them?

    Yes, immigrants.

    So, if you're counting all non-Native-Americans as "immigrants", then obviously we needed "immigrants". Indians weren't able to invent anything, I agree. Well, unless you count human sacrifice and cannibalism, anyway.

    Remember, immigrants regardless of their race or ethnicity are invaders, that’s what you believe, right?

    No, and I'm pretty sure it wasn't what the Know-Nothings believed either.

    It really troubles you to give credit where credit is due.

    No it isn't. I give credit to all kinds of white people and Asians, who, unlike others, were capable of inventing things. None of which means we need to bring any of them here, of course.

    Again, is that in-born or environment on your part?

    You said before that you were an average white American. Were you lying about that? Explaining things to you is like trying to explain the Trayvon Martin case to a black person. You have to go over and over and over the same things, and they just couldn't ever get it. They would say stupid, completely irrelevant things, and act like they made a really good point.

    “Do you know the difference between “was” and “is”?”

    You’re still losing your white card with your comments that denigrated the Irish.

    “If you mean that we needed white people to come in and move out the Indians, then I suppose this is true.”

    There was no need, just greed.

    “Hell, they couldn’t even figure out the wheel.”

    From wikipedia…Contrary to popular belief, the Native Americans (from ancient Meso-America) did in fact invent the wheel. However, unlike the ancient civilizations in Eurasia and Africa such as China, Persia, Egypt, Greece, Rome, India, and others where the presence of draft animals facilitated the use of wheel to haul cargo, food, and people in the form of wagons, the ancient Mexicans, who independently invented the wheel, had access to no draft animals at their disposal, which could be used to assist in hauling goods using wagons. The Andean civilizations did domesticate llama and alpaca to haul luggage and goods, but they did not have access to the wheel. In addition, llama and alpaca were not strong enough animals, such as horses, cows, and bullocks, that could be used to haul heavy cargo-laden wagons. The ancient Mexican peoples who invented the wheel independent of any Old World influences, actually used the wheels as bases of miniature children’s toys and not for transporting any goods and people across vast distances.”

    You’re not that bright.

    “Indians weren’t able to invent anything, I agree.”

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Native_American_contributions

    https://indiancountrymedianetwork.com/history/events/10-native-inventions-and-innovations-that-changed-the-world/

    You’re not that bright.

    Read More
    • Replies: @anon
    You’re still losing your white card with your comments that denigrated the Irish.

    You see, this is why nobody likes you. That comment doesn't even make sense. Like, it's anti-white to ever point out, correctly, that a group of white people was ever poor? It doesn't even work as an insult, because it's so stupid. So what is the point of saying this kind of thing?

    There was no need, just greed.

    Of course there was a need. We needed to immigrate to their society to improve it and make it great. That was your whole argument about why we need immigration. Because immigrants invent things.

    For some reason, it's not necessary when white people do it to Native Americans. Could you explain?

    However, unlike the ancient civilizations in Eurasia and Africa such as China, Persia, Egypt, Greece, Rome, India, and others where the presence of draft animals facilitated the use of wheel to haul cargo, food, and people in the form of wagons, the ancient Mexicans, who independently invented the wheel, had access to no draft animals at their disposal, which could be used to assist in hauling goods using wagons.

    Human beings in other parts of the world were routinely used as draft animals to haul goods using wagons. The Meso-Americans had no compunctions about cutting their hearts out, but for some reason, they couldn't figure out the hand-drawn wagon. This is why they needed white people to take over their civilizations. To figure out basic things like that for them.

    The Andean civilizations did domesticate llama and alpaca to haul luggage and goods, but they did not have access to the wheel.

    Oh. They didn't have access to wheels. Did the Andes have an absence of wheel ore that could be mined and refined into wheels? Or did they simply not ever figure it out, like I said?

    In addition, llama and alpaca were not strong enough animals, such as horses, cows, and bullocks, that could be used to haul heavy cargo-laden wagons.

    Well, that obviously depends on how much cargo you put into the wagons, doesn't it? I mean, a person could push a wheelbarrow. I'm fairly certain a llama could haul a bit more than that.

    And, since I just did a Google Image search for "llama with cart", I see that I am right. You can find lots of pictures of llamas pulling people around in carts. So that's a couple hundred pounds of stuff they could haul, at the very least.

    Wikipedia just isn't that bright.

    https://indiancountrymedianetwork.com/history/events/10-native-inventions-and-innovations-that-changed-the-world/

    These lists are always funny to me, because they can't even get to ten inventions without putting in stuff like lacrosse and chewing gum. What does that tell you?

    The other link had contributions such as "apple", which was, of course, introduced to the Americas by Europeans, and "adobe", which is simply mud brick, which basically every culture ever invented. And "government". Too bad we didn't have any governments prior to 1492! Just think of what we could have gotten done.

    You weren't even bright enough to read your own links.
  158. anon says: • Disclaimer
    @Corvinus
    "Do you know the difference between “was” and “is”?"

    You're still losing your white card with your comments that denigrated the Irish.

    "If you mean that we needed white people to come in and move out the Indians, then I suppose this is true."

    There was no need, just greed.

    "Hell, they couldn’t even figure out the wheel."

    From wikipedia...Contrary to popular belief, the Native Americans (from ancient Meso-America) did in fact invent the wheel. However, unlike the ancient civilizations in Eurasia and Africa such as China, Persia, Egypt, Greece, Rome, India, and others where the presence of draft animals facilitated the use of wheel to haul cargo, food, and people in the form of wagons, the ancient Mexicans, who independently invented the wheel, had access to no draft animals at their disposal, which could be used to assist in hauling goods using wagons. The Andean civilizations did domesticate llama and alpaca to haul luggage and goods, but they did not have access to the wheel. In addition, llama and alpaca were not strong enough animals, such as horses, cows, and bullocks, that could be used to haul heavy cargo-laden wagons. The ancient Mexican peoples who invented the wheel independent of any Old World influences, actually used the wheels as bases of miniature children's toys and not for transporting any goods and people across vast distances."

    You're not that bright.

    "Indians weren’t able to invent anything, I agree."

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Native_American_contributions

    https://indiancountrymedianetwork.com/history/events/10-native-inventions-and-innovations-that-changed-the-world/

    You're not that bright.

    You’re still losing your white card with your comments that denigrated the Irish.

    You see, this is why nobody likes you. That comment doesn’t even make sense. Like, it’s anti-white to ever point out, correctly, that a group of white people was ever poor? It doesn’t even work as an insult, because it’s so stupid. So what is the point of saying this kind of thing?

    There was no need, just greed.

    Of course there was a need. We needed to immigrate to their society to improve it and make it great. That was your whole argument about why we need immigration. Because immigrants invent things.

    For some reason, it’s not necessary when white people do it to Native Americans. Could you explain?

    However, unlike the ancient civilizations in Eurasia and Africa such as China, Persia, Egypt, Greece, Rome, India, and others where the presence of draft animals facilitated the use of wheel to haul cargo, food, and people in the form of wagons, the ancient Mexicans, who independently invented the wheel, had access to no draft animals at their disposal, which could be used to assist in hauling goods using wagons.

    Human beings in other parts of the world were routinely used as draft animals to haul goods using wagons. The Meso-Americans had no compunctions about cutting their hearts out, but for some reason, they couldn’t figure out the hand-drawn wagon. This is why they needed white people to take over their civilizations. To figure out basic things like that for them.

    The Andean civilizations did domesticate llama and alpaca to haul luggage and goods, but they did not have access to the wheel.

    Oh. They didn’t have access to wheels. Did the Andes have an absence of wheel ore that could be mined and refined into wheels? Or did they simply not ever figure it out, like I said?

    In addition, llama and alpaca were not strong enough animals, such as horses, cows, and bullocks, that could be used to haul heavy cargo-laden wagons.

    Well, that obviously depends on how much cargo you put into the wagons, doesn’t it? I mean, a person could push a wheelbarrow. I’m fairly certain a llama could haul a bit more than that.

    And, since I just did a Google Image search for “llama with cart”, I see that I am right. You can find lots of pictures of llamas pulling people around in carts. So that’s a couple hundred pounds of stuff they could haul, at the very least.

    Wikipedia just isn’t that bright.

    https://indiancountrymedianetwork.com/history/events/10-native-inventions-and-innovations-that-changed-the-world/

    These lists are always funny to me, because they can’t even get to ten inventions without putting in stuff like lacrosse and chewing gum. What does that tell you?

    The other link had contributions such as “apple”, which was, of course, introduced to the Americas by Europeans, and “adobe”, which is simply mud brick, which basically every culture ever invented. And “government”. Too bad we didn’t have any governments prior to 1492! Just think of what we could have gotten done.

    You weren’t even bright enough to read your own links.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Corvinus
    You are wrong when you said the Irish were Third World.

    You are wrong for demonizing your fellow whites.

    You are wrong when you said that tribal groups couldn't even figure out the wheel.

    You are wrong when you said Indians weren't about to invent anything.

    You are wrong for not giving credit when credit is due.

    "The Meso-Americans had no compunctions about cutting their hearts out..."

    Indeed, some tribal groups engaged in this ritual. But considering that the accounts come from Europeans--known liars and thieves (probably in-born)--historians take these versions with caution and prejudice.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cannibalism_in_pre-Columbian_America#Aztec_cannibalism

    It's really no different than Europeans who had no compunctions about raping slave women, or bashing the heads of Indian infants, or slaughtering entire tribes. Invade the world, invite the world!

  159. Corvinus says:
    @anon
    You’re still losing your white card with your comments that denigrated the Irish.

    You see, this is why nobody likes you. That comment doesn't even make sense. Like, it's anti-white to ever point out, correctly, that a group of white people was ever poor? It doesn't even work as an insult, because it's so stupid. So what is the point of saying this kind of thing?

    There was no need, just greed.

    Of course there was a need. We needed to immigrate to their society to improve it and make it great. That was your whole argument about why we need immigration. Because immigrants invent things.

    For some reason, it's not necessary when white people do it to Native Americans. Could you explain?

    However, unlike the ancient civilizations in Eurasia and Africa such as China, Persia, Egypt, Greece, Rome, India, and others where the presence of draft animals facilitated the use of wheel to haul cargo, food, and people in the form of wagons, the ancient Mexicans, who independently invented the wheel, had access to no draft animals at their disposal, which could be used to assist in hauling goods using wagons.

    Human beings in other parts of the world were routinely used as draft animals to haul goods using wagons. The Meso-Americans had no compunctions about cutting their hearts out, but for some reason, they couldn't figure out the hand-drawn wagon. This is why they needed white people to take over their civilizations. To figure out basic things like that for them.

    The Andean civilizations did domesticate llama and alpaca to haul luggage and goods, but they did not have access to the wheel.

    Oh. They didn't have access to wheels. Did the Andes have an absence of wheel ore that could be mined and refined into wheels? Or did they simply not ever figure it out, like I said?

    In addition, llama and alpaca were not strong enough animals, such as horses, cows, and bullocks, that could be used to haul heavy cargo-laden wagons.

    Well, that obviously depends on how much cargo you put into the wagons, doesn't it? I mean, a person could push a wheelbarrow. I'm fairly certain a llama could haul a bit more than that.

    And, since I just did a Google Image search for "llama with cart", I see that I am right. You can find lots of pictures of llamas pulling people around in carts. So that's a couple hundred pounds of stuff they could haul, at the very least.

    Wikipedia just isn't that bright.

    https://indiancountrymedianetwork.com/history/events/10-native-inventions-and-innovations-that-changed-the-world/

    These lists are always funny to me, because they can't even get to ten inventions without putting in stuff like lacrosse and chewing gum. What does that tell you?

    The other link had contributions such as "apple", which was, of course, introduced to the Americas by Europeans, and "adobe", which is simply mud brick, which basically every culture ever invented. And "government". Too bad we didn't have any governments prior to 1492! Just think of what we could have gotten done.

    You weren't even bright enough to read your own links.

    You are wrong when you said the Irish were Third World.

    You are wrong for demonizing your fellow whites.

    You are wrong when you said that tribal groups couldn’t even figure out the wheel.

    You are wrong when you said Indians weren’t about to invent anything.

    You are wrong for not giving credit when credit is due.

    “The Meso-Americans had no compunctions about cutting their hearts out…”

    Indeed, some tribal groups engaged in this ritual. But considering that the accounts come from Europeans–known liars and thieves (probably in-born)–historians take these versions with caution and prejudice.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cannibalism_in_pre-Columbian_America#Aztec_cannibalism

    It’s really no different than Europeans who had no compunctions about raping slave women, or bashing the heads of Indian infants, or slaughtering entire tribes. Invade the world, invite the world!

    Read More
    • Replies: @anon
    You are wrong when you said the Irish were Third World.

    No I wasn't. They were, for a long time.

    You are wrong for demonizing your fellow whites.

    Who did I demonize, stupid?

    You are wrong when you said that tribal groups couldn’t even figure out the wheel.

    They COULDN'T figure it out. Making a toy with little spinny parts, but not figuring out that a wheel can actually be used for something useful isn't "figuring out the wheel". It's like saying you figured out how to use a gun, without figuring out that it can be used to fire bullets. They needed white people to figure it out for them. Which we did.

    You are wrong when you said Indians weren’t about to invent anything.

    Fine. They invented chewing gum and lacrosse. They just needed white people to invent everything worthwhile and important. Happy?

    (Although, technically, since the chewing gum was just resin from a tree, it would be more accurate to say that they "found" it. But whatever. They only invented ten things, so I'll let them have that.)

    You are wrong for not giving credit when credit is due.


    No I'm not. I give credit to white people for coming here and making this society great and inventing everything that was invented here. You're the one trying to give credit to Native Americans, who aren't due it.

    I also give credit to Asians, for inventing everything white people didn't invent.

    But considering that the accounts come from Europeans–known liars and thieves (probably in-born)–historians take these versions with caution and prejudice.

    Well, that, plus their own artwork, their own written testimony, and actual physical remains of the people they did it on.

    It’s really no different than Europeans who had no compunctions about raping slave women, or bashing the heads of Indian infants, or slaughtering entire tribes.

    Well, it's kind of different, because white people did good stuff too. Like invent everything besides lacrosse.

    This is seriously just like it was six months into the Trayvon Martin case, where I'd spend all day trying to explain the evidence of the case, and black people would just come back with "Trayvon had a right to kill Zimmerman because he got out the car!!! HE GOT OUT THE CAR!!!!".
  160. anon says: • Disclaimer
    @Corvinus
    You are wrong when you said the Irish were Third World.

    You are wrong for demonizing your fellow whites.

    You are wrong when you said that tribal groups couldn't even figure out the wheel.

    You are wrong when you said Indians weren't about to invent anything.

    You are wrong for not giving credit when credit is due.

    "The Meso-Americans had no compunctions about cutting their hearts out..."

    Indeed, some tribal groups engaged in this ritual. But considering that the accounts come from Europeans--known liars and thieves (probably in-born)--historians take these versions with caution and prejudice.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cannibalism_in_pre-Columbian_America#Aztec_cannibalism

    It's really no different than Europeans who had no compunctions about raping slave women, or bashing the heads of Indian infants, or slaughtering entire tribes. Invade the world, invite the world!

    You are wrong when you said the Irish were Third World.

    No I wasn’t. They were, for a long time.

    You are wrong for demonizing your fellow whites.

    Who did I demonize, stupid?

    You are wrong when you said that tribal groups couldn’t even figure out the wheel.

    They COULDN’T figure it out. Making a toy with little spinny parts, but not figuring out that a wheel can actually be used for something useful isn’t “figuring out the wheel”. It’s like saying you figured out how to use a gun, without figuring out that it can be used to fire bullets. They needed white people to figure it out for them. Which we did.

    You are wrong when you said Indians weren’t about to invent anything.

    Fine. They invented chewing gum and lacrosse. They just needed white people to invent everything worthwhile and important. Happy?

    (Although, technically, since the chewing gum was just resin from a tree, it would be more accurate to say that they “found” it. But whatever. They only invented ten things, so I’ll let them have that.)

    You are wrong for not giving credit when credit is due.

    No I’m not. I give credit to white people for coming here and making this society great and inventing everything that was invented here. You’re the one trying to give credit to Native Americans, who aren’t due it.

    I also give credit to Asians, for inventing everything white people didn’t invent.

    But considering that the accounts come from Europeans–known liars and thieves (probably in-born)–historians take these versions with caution and prejudice.

    Well, that, plus their own artwork, their own written testimony, and actual physical remains of the people they did it on.

    It’s really no different than Europeans who had no compunctions about raping slave women, or bashing the heads of Indian infants, or slaughtering entire tribes.

    Well, it’s kind of different, because white people did good stuff too. Like invent everything besides lacrosse.

    This is seriously just like it was six months into the Trayvon Martin case, where I’d spend all day trying to explain the evidence of the case, and black people would just come back with “Trayvon had a right to kill Zimmerman because he got out the car!!! HE GOT OUT THE CAR!!!!”.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Corvinus
    Like a little girl, you need to be told twice about her transgressions.

    You are wrong when you said the Irish were Third World.

    You are wrong for demonizing your fellow whites.

    You are wrong when you said that tribal groups couldn’t even figure out the wheel.

    You are wrong when you said Indians weren’t about to invent anything.

    You are wrong for not giving credit when credit is due.
  161. Corvinus says:
    @anon
    You are wrong when you said the Irish were Third World.

    No I wasn't. They were, for a long time.

    You are wrong for demonizing your fellow whites.

    Who did I demonize, stupid?

    You are wrong when you said that tribal groups couldn’t even figure out the wheel.

    They COULDN'T figure it out. Making a toy with little spinny parts, but not figuring out that a wheel can actually be used for something useful isn't "figuring out the wheel". It's like saying you figured out how to use a gun, without figuring out that it can be used to fire bullets. They needed white people to figure it out for them. Which we did.

    You are wrong when you said Indians weren’t about to invent anything.

    Fine. They invented chewing gum and lacrosse. They just needed white people to invent everything worthwhile and important. Happy?

    (Although, technically, since the chewing gum was just resin from a tree, it would be more accurate to say that they "found" it. But whatever. They only invented ten things, so I'll let them have that.)

    You are wrong for not giving credit when credit is due.


    No I'm not. I give credit to white people for coming here and making this society great and inventing everything that was invented here. You're the one trying to give credit to Native Americans, who aren't due it.

    I also give credit to Asians, for inventing everything white people didn't invent.

    But considering that the accounts come from Europeans–known liars and thieves (probably in-born)–historians take these versions with caution and prejudice.

    Well, that, plus their own artwork, their own written testimony, and actual physical remains of the people they did it on.

    It’s really no different than Europeans who had no compunctions about raping slave women, or bashing the heads of Indian infants, or slaughtering entire tribes.

    Well, it's kind of different, because white people did good stuff too. Like invent everything besides lacrosse.

    This is seriously just like it was six months into the Trayvon Martin case, where I'd spend all day trying to explain the evidence of the case, and black people would just come back with "Trayvon had a right to kill Zimmerman because he got out the car!!! HE GOT OUT THE CAR!!!!".

    Like a little girl, you need to be told twice about her transgressions.

    You are wrong when you said the Irish were Third World.

    You are wrong for demonizing your fellow whites.

    You are wrong when you said that tribal groups couldn’t even figure out the wheel.

    You are wrong when you said Indians weren’t about to invent anything.

    You are wrong for not giving credit when credit is due.

    Read More

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