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The Spike: The White Death and the Sixties
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Gary Venter: “A Quick Look at Cohort Effects in US Male Mortality”

Via Andrew Gelman, here’s a graph highlighting changes in male American mortality (all races) by year of birth. It shows a spectacular spike among later baby boomers in mortality.

I’ve been pointing out since November that the spike in increases in deaths by (especially) drug overdose, suicide, and alcoholism seem to be centered in whites who turned 18 in the late 1960s through the early 1980s: i.e., the long Sixties. I may be totally overlooking something, but it makes sense to me that your odds of dying of a heroin overdose in the 2000s are related to how many people you knew who were into drugs when you graduated from high school.

In contrast, the lucky duckies born in 1946 turned 18 in pre-Sixties 1964, which was a few years before the Drug Era really hit home across America.

Say you are a middle-aged man who has had a bad back for a long time. You got hooked pretty heavily on prescription painkillers so your doctor has finally cut you off. But now the pain is back. If you graduated from high school in 1964, you probably don’t have many friends your age who knew back then where to buy drugs. It would be kind of embarrassing to start randomly asking your old high school buddies about where to get heroin.

But if you graduated in 1975, you’d know a bunch of people from high school who, if they are still alive, know about drugs and might clue you in to where to get heroin.

 
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  1. The early 1970s are also when middle-class income gains stalled out for good. The differences in economic prospects between being an early baby boomer and a late one are HUGE.

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    • Replies: @epebble
    Are you suggesting "income gains stalled" is related to narcotics addiction/death? Not sure if sub-sample studies in different regions support that. In the early days, rural areas had high "income gain stalling" due to ups and downs in agricultural economy; but narcotics were an urban phenomenon. Narcotics availability and family breakdown may be bigger drivers. Of course, family breakdowns may be well correlated with "income gain stalling".
    , @Cagey Beast
    There really does seem to be a sharp difference in outlook between those who became adults before the oil shock of the early '70s and those who came after. Those who came before generally default to optimism while those who came after generally do not.
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  2. I remember the “Greatest Generation” drank, constantly. They also chain smoked.

    The generation after them I think is called “The Quiet Generation” — they seemed more abstemious.

    My fellow Boomers, many of them picked up the drug habit and never stopped. But the drug habit isn’t just any particular drug, it’s the idea that you have to self-medicate constantly. And many do. I can think of at least a couple cases where peers just dropped dead in their ’50′s from excessive “self medication.” I don’t believe that heroin was the cause (but I know some of those, too.) But it may well have been decades of alcohol, MJ, pain pills, meth, and cocaine abuse.

    I am going to guess that many of these deaths involve people either in young or later middle age who really don’t have anything to do in their lives. That’s the sad truth for a lot of people, even if they have kids, once the kids grow up and leave. However, you might be right that many of these people have a nearer connection to obtaining various types of drugs that keeps the Quiet Ones alive.

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    • Replies: @Cracker
    My 'rents are in the mid 70's age-wise. And I thought I drank heavily. 6 martini lunch and all that, no joke.
    , @athEist
    I think it is called “The Silent Generation."
    , @Hugh
    Ritalin for kids; pot for teenagers; binge drinking in college; a little bit of cocaine early in your career; anti-depressants in your middle years, then pain meds and statins.

    It's quite a cocktail if you think about it.
    , @SFG
    It's part of the whole idea that you have to feel good constantly. The whole idea of 'grin and bear it' is dead.
    , @James O'Meara
    "You don't know how to drink. Your whole generation, you drink for the wrong reasons. My generation, we drink because it's good, because it feels better than unbuttoning your collar, because we deserve it. We drink because it's what men do." - Roger Sterling (Greatest Gen) to Donald Draper (Silent Gen).
    , @Chrisnonymous

    don’t have anything to do in their lives. That’s the sad truth for a lot of people, even if they have kids, once the kids grow up and leave.
     
    Of course, usually the cycle of life produces grandchildren and other facets of the extended family, which suggests thst maybe the problem with this generation is not this generation per se.
    , @Big Bill
    Hippie culture +Rock&Roll +Drugs +Vietnam were big factors. The Meases, Costlows, Loftins, Taylors, and other hillbilly families were hit hard in my neck of the woods. Young men whose uncles and daddies might have gotten in bar fights, poached fish or black walnut trees, and made a little moonshine found themselves in a much, much darker place.

    The story of Darrell Mease ("Almost Midnight") is a textbook case. As is the story in "Winter's Bone" filmed in the same county.
    , @AndrewR
    Excuse the pedantry but this is a big pet peeve. When referring to human age one does not use an apostrophe before the decade. And try to avoid apostrophes for plural. Use an apostrophe only for calendrical decades in centuries greater than 1.

    Example: Most people born in the '60s are currently in their 50s.

    Example: Jesus died in his 30s in the 30s.

    Pedant signing out.

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  3. Yep, I know those guys. But I am not sure what to do about it.

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  4. @SPMoore8
    I remember the "Greatest Generation" drank, constantly. They also chain smoked.

    The generation after them I think is called "The Quiet Generation" -- they seemed more abstemious.

    My fellow Boomers, many of them picked up the drug habit and never stopped. But the drug habit isn't just any particular drug, it's the idea that you have to self-medicate constantly. And many do. I can think of at least a couple cases where peers just dropped dead in their '50's from excessive "self medication." I don't believe that heroin was the cause (but I know some of those, too.) But it may well have been decades of alcohol, MJ, pain pills, meth, and cocaine abuse.

    I am going to guess that many of these deaths involve people either in young or later middle age who really don't have anything to do in their lives. That's the sad truth for a lot of people, even if they have kids, once the kids grow up and leave. However, you might be right that many of these people have a nearer connection to obtaining various types of drugs that keeps the Quiet Ones alive.

    My ‘rents are in the mid 70′s age-wise. And I thought I drank heavily. 6 martini lunch and all that, no joke.

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  5. I actually think it was the toaster pizzas that did it:

    http://mentalfloss.com/article/65461/6-forgotten-pizzas-instant-pizzas-golden-age

    I was particularly fond of the Buitoni Toasterinos, and I’ve been jonesing for them for forty years.

    Another cause could be residual radiation from all those black light posters we had in our bedrooms:

    http://www.allposters.com/-sp/Magnetic-Fantasy-Posters_i8730646_.htm

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  6. A little late for the Vietnam war, but how about the AIDS epidemic and crack wars of the 80s.

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  7. @Earl Lemongrab
    The early 1970s are also when middle-class income gains stalled out for good. The differences in economic prospects between being an early baby boomer and a late one are HUGE.

    Are you suggesting “income gains stalled” is related to narcotics addiction/death? Not sure if sub-sample studies in different regions support that. In the early days, rural areas had high “income gain stalling” due to ups and downs in agricultural economy; but narcotics were an urban phenomenon. Narcotics availability and family breakdown may be bigger drivers. Of course, family breakdowns may be well correlated with “income gain stalling”.

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  8. I graduated in 1976; but don’t know anyone. Even if I knew, they would be the last people I will go for such advice. Especially when, somewhere in the 5 mile radius, I can probably get whatever I want, with a little inquiry.

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    • Replies: @Tracy
    I've wondered a lot about how people who aren't part of the drug scene go about becoming a part of it. You can't go knocking on doors, ya know? "Pardon me, but may I borrow a cuppa sugar? And, by the way, you know where I can score some heroin?" Or how do people arrange to hire hit men? Do they go to scruffy bars and ask around or --- ? Where's that secret door to the demimonde? LOL
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  9. @Earl Lemongrab
    The early 1970s are also when middle-class income gains stalled out for good. The differences in economic prospects between being an early baby boomer and a late one are HUGE.

    There really does seem to be a sharp difference in outlook between those who became adults before the oil shock of the early ’70s and those who came after. Those who came before generally default to optimism while those who came after generally do not.

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    • Agree: slumber_j
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  10. I was watching a documentary recently about the death of the actor Heath Ledger. The main drugs found in his system were anti-anxiety drugs and painkillers. Doctors these days don’t like to give out drugs like Valium because they have the potential for addiction. However, a medical expert on the documentary pointed out that it was very unlikely someone could actually die from overdosing on doctor-perscribed sedatives like Valium. What killed Ledger was probably an overdose of high power pain killers (of a type usually only given to cancer patients) which he somehow acquired illegally. Interestingly pain killers not only help to dull physical pain, but they can also help to dull psychological pain, since the two types of pain are closely connected from a neurological perspective.

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    • Replies: @Chrisnonymous
    Yes. It's quite interesting. If you are in real physical pain and take, say, Percocet, you don't really get high. But if you take it when you're not really in pain, it makes you feel great!!

    If you ever break a leg, you can experiment with your prescription to experience the interconnection of physical pain and psychological whatever yourself.
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  11. @SPMoore8
    I remember the "Greatest Generation" drank, constantly. They also chain smoked.

    The generation after them I think is called "The Quiet Generation" -- they seemed more abstemious.

    My fellow Boomers, many of them picked up the drug habit and never stopped. But the drug habit isn't just any particular drug, it's the idea that you have to self-medicate constantly. And many do. I can think of at least a couple cases where peers just dropped dead in their '50's from excessive "self medication." I don't believe that heroin was the cause (but I know some of those, too.) But it may well have been decades of alcohol, MJ, pain pills, meth, and cocaine abuse.

    I am going to guess that many of these deaths involve people either in young or later middle age who really don't have anything to do in their lives. That's the sad truth for a lot of people, even if they have kids, once the kids grow up and leave. However, you might be right that many of these people have a nearer connection to obtaining various types of drugs that keeps the Quiet Ones alive.

    I think it is called “The Silent Generation.”

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  12. Do we have an explanation of why men born in 1910 sit on the point of the curve where they do – i.e., why there is this long ascent early on in the last century?

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  13. Are we sure we are not overlooking something? That first spike seems to indicate the **MASSIVE** 1919 flu epidemic. I.E. older people late teens were less affected than kids 8-9, younger ones less affected presumably because more precautions were taken.

    I am just as interested in that first spike, and frankly the last one. It is a very weird graph and one that does not jibe with the story that public health got just better and better as time went on and food supplies got safer, medical treatment better, healthy living more standard, etc.

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  14. 1915 spike plus 20 years = the middle of the Great Depression
    1955 spike plus 20 years = the middle of the “misery index” era
    1980 spike plus 20 years = the end of the “new economy”

    Maybe it’s a male’s social and economic status at the start of adulthood that influences his longevity.

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    • Replies: @Ivy
    The male experience will elicit no sympathy from the SJW community. Their hypocritical core "beliefs" and feelz override rational thought. They will sneer about privilege and male tears, then tilt at the next windmill.
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  15. @SPMoore8
    I remember the "Greatest Generation" drank, constantly. They also chain smoked.

    The generation after them I think is called "The Quiet Generation" -- they seemed more abstemious.

    My fellow Boomers, many of them picked up the drug habit and never stopped. But the drug habit isn't just any particular drug, it's the idea that you have to self-medicate constantly. And many do. I can think of at least a couple cases where peers just dropped dead in their '50's from excessive "self medication." I don't believe that heroin was the cause (but I know some of those, too.) But it may well have been decades of alcohol, MJ, pain pills, meth, and cocaine abuse.

    I am going to guess that many of these deaths involve people either in young or later middle age who really don't have anything to do in their lives. That's the sad truth for a lot of people, even if they have kids, once the kids grow up and leave. However, you might be right that many of these people have a nearer connection to obtaining various types of drugs that keeps the Quiet Ones alive.

    Ritalin for kids; pot for teenagers; binge drinking in college; a little bit of cocaine early in your career; anti-depressants in your middle years, then pain meds and statins.

    It’s quite a cocktail if you think about it.

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  16. The first bump (1890-1935) surely is due in part to World Wars 1 & 2, as well as the Spanish Flu, no?

    The deep trough in the early ’70s is interesting. I was born in ’76. That was the era where drugs weren’t quite so cool (perhaps “Just Say No” was more effective than lefties give Nancy credit for) and when sex was honest to God deadly, with AIDS deaths peaking ca. 1987-1993. I pretty much assume that every other male celebrity who died during that time frame died from AIDS. AIDs definitely contributed at least a little to the spike in the ’50s.

    People born in the early to mid-70s were flooded with propaganda discouraging us from drugs and unsafe sex, as well as the fitness boom. We had seat belts, airbags, anti-lock brakes, and never had to go to war.

    Social media seems to be weakening the effect of old school anti-drug propaganda, though. People seem to take a rather casual attitude towards drug and alcohol abuse these days, and are quite happy to brag about it on Facebook and elsewhere. The legalization of pot in several states is one consequence of that.

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    • Replies: @SFG
    I was born in the late 70s. I was terrified of drugs and sex. I didn't pick up any addictions, but didn't get laid until way too late. (Of course, the same personality that's going to heed all the warnings is actually going to lack any game because women are attracted to confident risk-takers, so who knows.)

    The pot thing may be overdone.
    , @AndrewR
    Weed legalization is largely due to the dying off of the elderly generation brought up in an era when cannabis use was associated with the coloreds. The boomers can't object too much since so many partook in their youth and the younger generations are coming into power and have no use for the silly stigmas of their grandparents.

    With all due respect to the late Schoolmarm Nancy, just say no to mindless government propaganda.

    For the record, I am very aware of the harmfulness of the wacky tobacky, but compared to alcohol it is essentially harmless.

    , @athEist
    AIDs definitely contributed at least a little to the spike in the ’50s.
    Tell me more, particularly about the definitely.
    , @njguy73
    As my username indicates, I'm from the generation that was taught to Just Say No. When I was 13, hit songs weren't about spending the night together. They weren't about getting drunk and screwing, either. They were about not having to take your clothes off to have a good time.

    Mick Jagger and Jimmy Buffet both made it to 70. Jermaine Stewart? AIDS took him before he hit 40.

    Last year, a 1994-born singer going by the name Halsey had a hit with a song with this chorus:

    "We are the new Americana
    High on legal marijuana
    Raised on Biggie and Nirvana
    We are the new Americana"

    She'll probably make it to 120.
    , @Eric Novak
    Use of pot and psychedelics was at an all-time peak in '76. In fact, if those old enough to have lived through the '70s were to pick a year to epitomize the post-'60s epidemic of recreational drug use, it would be '76. Jeff Spicolli was just learning how to make a bong out of PVC fittings in sixth grade that year, as it were.
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  17. You are assuming that something in the behavior of the younger boomers is currently different than the older boomers. That is a big assumption. If they indeed used drugs significantly more frequently in youth, that alone could have health effects years later, even if they cleaned up in their 20th or 30s. Studies show that former drug users are more overweight than people who never used.

    Another theory is environmental exposure. The people now in their late fifties were the first generation to receive the tainted polio vaccine in the 1950s. We have no way of knowing what the long term effects of virus SV-40 are. The oral vaccine that proceeded the SV-40 vaccines can also cause polio itself, and would be considered exposure. What about a correlation between looser late 1960s morals and oral herpes virus? Any of these pathogens may cause higher rates of cancer and autoimmune diseases later in life. Certainly there is something odd in the fact that I personally know so many people with autoimmune diseases.

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    • Replies: @SFG
    Oh, they've got that one--the 'hygiene hypothesis'. Apparently having killed all the environmental bugs our immune system starts looking for stuff to do and makes allergies and autoimmune disorders.

    Medical science says, 'oops' again.
    , @Jack D

    We have no way of knowing what the long term effects of virus SV-40 are.
     
    We have know way of knowing what the long term effects of Corn Flakes are.

    We have know way of knowing what the long term effects of soap are.

    We have know way of knowing what the long term effects of tofu are.

    Etc.


    But we do know what the short term effects of the polio virus are - paralysis, life in an iron lung, death. I'll take my chances on the vaccine.
    , @Sam F
    What you say sounds really interesting. On the other hand, my father was born in '59. He said that in our semi-rural area, there was a really strange divide that almost perfectly separated people born a couple years before himself from his own cohort. He said that a lot of drugs just seemed to have vanished from use, and that the whole Endless Summer culture seemed to vanish overnight (he said he was very happy to have not been born a little earlier). The only exception to this experience, he said, was one guy his age who left high school for the summer before junior year in a perfectly normal state and returned completely goofy (to this day, this guy wanders the town in a strange stupor). Anecdotal, I know- but bizarre.
    , @njguy73
    "You are assuming that something in the behavior of the younger boomers is currently different than the older boomers."

    There is something different. There are lots of things different.

    Let's call those born from 1946 to 1954 the Woodstock wave, and those born from 1955 to 1964 the Disco Wave.

    The Disco wave is on record as having worse behavior the Woodstock wave across the board. Lower SAT scores, higher drug use, crime rates, and more.

    There is hard data to back this up. I can cite sources.
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  18. Say you are a middle-aged man who has had a bad back for a long time. You got hooked pretty heavily on prescription painkillers so your doctor has finally cut you off. But now the pain is back. If you graduated from high school in 1964, you probably don’t have many friends your age who knew back then where to buy drugs. It would be kind of embarrassing to start randomly asking your old high school buddies about where to get heroin.

    But if you graduated in 1975, you’d know a bunch of people from high school who, if they are still alive, know about drugs and might clue you in to where to get heroin.

    Highly perceptive, I think, Steve! There are a lot of chronic pain patients out there (I am one), and dealing with doctors, who are terrified of the DEA, is a pain in the ass. Family physicians want to hand you off to a specialist (which costs an arm and a leg, of course), and the specialists hold pain relief over you as if they’re gods. The second to the last pain specialist I went to had me come in periodically and just talked to me — and the entire time I was answering his questions about my personal life, he was looking me in the eye, but clacking away on his keyboard, taking notes, as if I were a psychiatric patient or something, or a criminal, and he was my parole officer, making sure I was sticking to the routine.

    They take urine samples to make sure you’re actually taking your meds instead of selling them, the costs of which are yours to worry about even though it’s the State that wants to know every little thing about your pee. There’s this underlying “tone” in the air that gives the patient the impression that his doctor think he’s a drug-seeking malingerer who has to prove himself before he pulls out his magical prescription pad. Some States have laws that force you to pay, twice a year, for very expensive but medically useless tests designed to appease the police rather than to serve you, the patient — and then they charge the patient for it.

    The most recent pain doctor I went to had me wait 1 hour and 45 minutes before he deigned to see me for about 5 minutes max, which “seeing me” amounted to his looking at me as if I were some lowlife criminal and asking a few questions. The great takeaway was his contention that opiates could actually cause pain. Yes, he said that. Opiates cause pain. Who knew?

    And on and on and on it goes.

    It’s no wonder to me at all why some chronic pain patients say “to Hell with it; I’m taking it to the streets. F*** this noise.” And when they do, they’re getting God-knows-what, in God-knows-what-doses, and often die. I put those deaths squarely at the feet of the DEA and the “war on drugs.”

    I believe that all drugs but antibiotics should be legal. Truly, it’s the only sane way to go. Those poor souls who want out of the gene pool will make their exits (God forbid); people who want pain relief can get it without being treated like pond scum; those vicious, machete-wielding cartels would disappear overnight; our police would become a lot less militarized; we’d save tons by not having to support drug users in prisons or could save tons by using even a portion of that money for rehab instead of incarceration; the black community might get a boost and have more fathers in their homes; doctors could once again practice effective medicine without fear of the Feds taking their licenses for prescribing “too many” opiates (i.e., having too many pain patients), etc.

    Another note on all this: that last pain specialist — that “My Time is More Precious Than Yours, M.D.” guy — asked me if I’d tried Cymbalta yet, an SSRI (Selective Serotonin Re-uptake Inhibitor). Anyone out there who’s been on an SSRI knows that coming off of those is Hellish. Because of the DEA (I assume), he’d rather have me on a new drug, an SSRI, with tons of side effects, hellish withdrawal symptoms, etc., etc., and that will probably turn out to have an associated lawyer commercial in a few years. “Have you been prescribed Cymbalta and lost liver function?” — all while, meanwhile, there’s a thousands of years old, God-made, perfect remedy for pain, a remedy that comes from the beautiful poppy, a remedy that works and that most pain patients can function just great on while taking. I get so mad thinking about all this nonsense.

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    • Agree: Travis, Travis
    • Replies: @SFG
    The flipside is all the guys in the Midwest snorting Oxy or whatever its successor is.

    I'm not saying your pain isn't real--it most definitely is. I don't think there's a good answer unless someone comes up with a better drug.

    BTW, from what I hear from a doctor friend doctors are so consumed by all the checks they put in electronic medical records these days, which are required everywhere, that they have to spend all their time on the computer clarifying for the fifth time that, yes, this patient has no drug allergies. You can look up ZDoggMD's 'New Chart' if you want to laugh a little.

    Yes, I know, they make way too much money.

    , @panjoomby
    i 100% agree with tracy.
    & cymbalta is crap. in a few studies it's slightly better than placebo at helping with CNS pain. but the statistically non-significant studies no doubt go unpublished.
    also, the fact that you have to go to the pharmacy every 30 days hat-in-hand, & they eke out 30 more pills for you. they should give you a barrel of pills. heaven forbid we should be trusted with freedom.
    , @Chrisnonymous

    meanwhile, there’s a thousands of years old, God-made, perfect remedy for pain, a remedy that comes from the beautiful poppy
     
    Probably, if you're serious about your pain, you shouldn't venerate the poppy the way potheads venerate the maijuana plant. That's probably the type of tell your pain specialist is looking for.
    , @Jack D
    Making opiates freely available is not a good idea. A certain % of the population will become addicted to the point where they are no longer productive citizens and a certain % will OD and die. Making opiates freely available increases this percentage -if you could just go down to the supermarket and buy a bottle of heroin like a bottle of aspirin, a LOT more people would use and ultimately die as a result. The time wasters that you cite - having to sit in a waiting room for hours, being asked stupid personal questions, etc. do not weed out addicts but they do weed out recreational users who are not going to waste 1/2 their day just to get some pills and those recreational users then do not graduate to addiction.

    The REAL crime has been the criminalization of marijuana. Exactly ZERO people in all of history have died of marijuana overdose. It's safer than 99% of the stuff on the shelf in the drugstore. For something that is psychoactive it is extraordinarily safe. There are high functioning individuals who have used it for decades and it doesn't seem to interfere with their ability to function in society. Alcohol is much more dangerous but the legal treatment of the two has been strikingly different. Somehow the lessons of Prohibition did not carry over at all.
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  19. @epebble
    I graduated in 1976; but don't know anyone. Even if I knew, they would be the last people I will go for such advice. Especially when, somewhere in the 5 mile radius, I can probably get whatever I want, with a little inquiry.

    I’ve wondered a lot about how people who aren’t part of the drug scene go about becoming a part of it. You can’t go knocking on doors, ya know? “Pardon me, but may I borrow a cuppa sugar? And, by the way, you know where I can score some heroin?” Or how do people arrange to hire hit men? Do they go to scruffy bars and ask around or — ? Where’s that secret door to the demimonde? LOL

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    • Replies: @anon
    >I’ve wondered a lot about how people who aren’t part of the drug scene go about becoming a part of it.

    -Become a non-stranger at a somewhat sleazy bar. Ask bartender for a hookup or hear through grapevine what regulars are into stuff or "know someone".

    -Even easier: strip clubs.

    -Befriend some street prostitute and invite her and her peers into your home.

    -Club scenes.


    I don't think the middle-aged, lifelong straight-laced person deciding "hey, i want to get into drugs" happens that often though, statistically.

    More realistic situation would be the addict/weekend warrior who happens to be out-of-town or their preferred dealer got arrested.

    , @Harry Baldwin
    I have the same reaction, like a middle-aged white guy can wander around sketchy neighborhoods asking who's got drugs. You also hear things like, "In this town you can buy a handgun on any street corner." Really? Where is that street corner? Who do you talk to there?

    As far as practical advice, I would suggest the inquiring fellow go to NA meetings. That's where addicts get to know each other and they relapse constantly. They spoofed this on "Breaking Bad," when Skinny Pete and Badger go to an NA meeting to promote Jesse's high-quality meth.
    , @epebble
    True story: Around 1997 or so, I bought a CB radio to show my then 6 year old son. On powering up and scanning channels, I quickly started listening to, very clearly, what appeared to be a drug trade. Of course, they were speaking in a kind of coded language. I did not encourage my son to play with that after that! This was in north San Diego county.
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  20. The other possibility is this cohort just happened to be at the right age to have painful medical problems when the opioid prescription pendulum was in the “prescribe more” position. Seems like it goes back and forth between “I can’t get enough medication to control my pain” and “duuuuuuuude” in about a 20 year cycle. Heroin is around now like it hasn’t been since the ’70s – you don’t need friends from fifty years ago to hook you up.

    The other piece of the puzzle is this generation is unmoored from the social institutions that used to help people deal with the onset of old age. A divorced atheist sitting at home on disability is going to have a lot more trouble coping than his fairly religious, still-married dad who meets up with the American Legion buddies to complain about aches and pains and the fact that his junk doesn’t work any more.

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    • Replies: @SFG
    Those are really good points--I wonder if there's a technical term for two things going wrong at once. Any engineers here?

    Also a good point about the death of social institutions. The one thing I'd say is that the old macho culture tended to discourage going to the doctor, so you had guys ignoring blood in their stool until the colon cancer had spread too far to remove.
    , @Jack D
    The latter is much more important than the former. People can always find something up to put themselves in oblivion, but they have to consider oblivion to be preferable to their lives. So in the late Soviet Empire it was alcohol, in the late Chinese Empire it was British opium, in the late American Empire it is Oxycontin and heroin, etc. First comes the despair.
    , @athEist
    “duuuuuuuude"
    +1 LOL What a perfect description of watching the pendulum creep up to its max and slowly reverse direction.
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  21. @SPMoore8
    I remember the "Greatest Generation" drank, constantly. They also chain smoked.

    The generation after them I think is called "The Quiet Generation" -- they seemed more abstemious.

    My fellow Boomers, many of them picked up the drug habit and never stopped. But the drug habit isn't just any particular drug, it's the idea that you have to self-medicate constantly. And many do. I can think of at least a couple cases where peers just dropped dead in their '50's from excessive "self medication." I don't believe that heroin was the cause (but I know some of those, too.) But it may well have been decades of alcohol, MJ, pain pills, meth, and cocaine abuse.

    I am going to guess that many of these deaths involve people either in young or later middle age who really don't have anything to do in their lives. That's the sad truth for a lot of people, even if they have kids, once the kids grow up and leave. However, you might be right that many of these people have a nearer connection to obtaining various types of drugs that keeps the Quiet Ones alive.

    It’s part of the whole idea that you have to feel good constantly. The whole idea of ‘grin and bear it’ is dead.

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    • Replies: @backup
    I think you got that right. People's aim today is being happy whereas being happy should be a byproduct of reaching your goals.
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  22. @Tracy

    Say you are a middle-aged man who has had a bad back for a long time. You got hooked pretty heavily on prescription painkillers so your doctor has finally cut you off. But now the pain is back. If you graduated from high school in 1964, you probably don’t have many friends your age who knew back then where to buy drugs. It would be kind of embarrassing to start randomly asking your old high school buddies about where to get heroin.

    But if you graduated in 1975, you’d know a bunch of people from high school who, if they are still alive, know about drugs and might clue you in to where to get heroin.
     
    Highly perceptive, I think, Steve! There are a lot of chronic pain patients out there (I am one), and dealing with doctors, who are terrified of the DEA, is a pain in the ass. Family physicians want to hand you off to a specialist (which costs an arm and a leg, of course), and the specialists hold pain relief over you as if they're gods. The second to the last pain specialist I went to had me come in periodically and just talked to me -- and the entire time I was answering his questions about my personal life, he was looking me in the eye, but clacking away on his keyboard, taking notes, as if I were a psychiatric patient or something, or a criminal, and he was my parole officer, making sure I was sticking to the routine.

    They take urine samples to make sure you're actually taking your meds instead of selling them, the costs of which are yours to worry about even though it's the State that wants to know every little thing about your pee. There's this underlying "tone" in the air that gives the patient the impression that his doctor think he's a drug-seeking malingerer who has to prove himself before he pulls out his magical prescription pad. Some States have laws that force you to pay, twice a year, for very expensive but medically useless tests designed to appease the police rather than to serve you, the patient -- and then they charge the patient for it.

    The most recent pain doctor I went to had me wait 1 hour and 45 minutes before he deigned to see me for about 5 minutes max, which "seeing me" amounted to his looking at me as if I were some lowlife criminal and asking a few questions. The great takeaway was his contention that opiates could actually cause pain. Yes, he said that. Opiates cause pain. Who knew?

    And on and on and on it goes.

    It's no wonder to me at all why some chronic pain patients say "to Hell with it; I'm taking it to the streets. F*** this noise." And when they do, they're getting God-knows-what, in God-knows-what-doses, and often die. I put those deaths squarely at the feet of the DEA and the "war on drugs."

    I believe that all drugs but antibiotics should be legal. Truly, it's the only sane way to go. Those poor souls who want out of the gene pool will make their exits (God forbid); people who want pain relief can get it without being treated like pond scum; those vicious, machete-wielding cartels would disappear overnight; our police would become a lot less militarized; we'd save tons by not having to support drug users in prisons or could save tons by using even a portion of that money for rehab instead of incarceration; the black community might get a boost and have more fathers in their homes; doctors could once again practice effective medicine without fear of the Feds taking their licenses for prescribing "too many" opiates (i.e., having too many pain patients), etc.

    Another note on all this: that last pain specialist -- that "My Time is More Precious Than Yours, M.D." guy -- asked me if I'd tried Cymbalta yet, an SSRI (Selective Serotonin Re-uptake Inhibitor). Anyone out there who's been on an SSRI knows that coming off of those is Hellish. Because of the DEA (I assume), he'd rather have me on a new drug, an SSRI, with tons of side effects, hellish withdrawal symptoms, etc., etc., and that will probably turn out to have an associated lawyer commercial in a few years. "Have you been prescribed Cymbalta and lost liver function?" -- all while, meanwhile, there's a thousands of years old, God-made, perfect remedy for pain, a remedy that comes from the beautiful poppy, a remedy that works and that most pain patients can function just great on while taking. I get so mad thinking about all this nonsense.

    The flipside is all the guys in the Midwest snorting Oxy or whatever its successor is.

    I’m not saying your pain isn’t real–it most definitely is. I don’t think there’s a good answer unless someone comes up with a better drug.

    BTW, from what I hear from a doctor friend doctors are so consumed by all the checks they put in electronic medical records these days, which are required everywhere, that they have to spend all their time on the computer clarifying for the fifth time that, yes, this patient has no drug allergies. You can look up ZDoggMD’s ‘New Chart’ if you want to laugh a little.

    Yes, I know, they make way too much money.

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  23. @WGG
    You are assuming that something in the behavior of the younger boomers is currently different than the older boomers. That is a big assumption. If they indeed used drugs significantly more frequently in youth, that alone could have health effects years later, even if they cleaned up in their 20th or 30s. Studies show that former drug users are more overweight than people who never used.

    Another theory is environmental exposure. The people now in their late fifties were the first generation to receive the tainted polio vaccine in the 1950s. We have no way of knowing what the long term effects of virus SV-40 are. The oral vaccine that proceeded the SV-40 vaccines can also cause polio itself, and would be considered exposure. What about a correlation between looser late 1960s morals and oral herpes virus? Any of these pathogens may cause higher rates of cancer and autoimmune diseases later in life. Certainly there is something odd in the fact that I personally know so many people with autoimmune diseases.

    Oh, they’ve got that one–the ‘hygiene hypothesis’. Apparently having killed all the environmental bugs our immune system starts looking for stuff to do and makes allergies and autoimmune disorders.

    Medical science says, ‘oops’ again.

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    • Replies: @WGG
    Allergies, maybe. I don't buy the autoimmune part of that hypothesis for a moment. Our bodies in their natural state are simply not that dysfunctional. Oh, you managed to stay healthy? I will now self destruct your entire digestive tract!

    I had a professor in college who had been in bio research for many years. He swore that all this whatever-doesn't-kill-you-makes-you-stronger approach to medicine was total b.s. The less exposure to virus, fungi, bacteria (and obv. protozoa) the healthier you will be. Besides, our globally mixed world probably has our bodies much more exposed to disease than our isolated ancestors in some mountaintop village. In fact the most isolated communities are the healthiest; Amish, Okinawa, etc.

    Speaking of human disease and fungi, all of the development of the South cannot be good. Valley Fever and who knows what else are swirling around every dusty new planned community.

    What about toxoplasmosis? Looking at the Internet and itts stupid cat pics/videos one would think cat ownership has gotten much more popular since our grandparents were young. Apparently Zika is a global emergency because it may or may not cause microcephaly, yet we KNOW toxoplasmosis does. But everyone keeps on with their gross pet habits. They estimate that half of cat owners are infected with the disease.

    OK so I am kind of a germaphobe.
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  24. anon • Disclaimer says:
    @Tracy
    I've wondered a lot about how people who aren't part of the drug scene go about becoming a part of it. You can't go knocking on doors, ya know? "Pardon me, but may I borrow a cuppa sugar? And, by the way, you know where I can score some heroin?" Or how do people arrange to hire hit men? Do they go to scruffy bars and ask around or --- ? Where's that secret door to the demimonde? LOL

    >I’ve wondered a lot about how people who aren’t part of the drug scene go about becoming a part of it.

    -Become a non-stranger at a somewhat sleazy bar. Ask bartender for a hookup or hear through grapevine what regulars are into stuff or “know someone”.

    -Even easier: strip clubs.

    -Befriend some street prostitute and invite her and her peers into your home.

    -Club scenes.

    I don’t think the middle-aged, lifelong straight-laced person deciding “hey, i want to get into drugs” happens that often though, statistically.

    More realistic situation would be the addict/weekend warrior who happens to be out-of-town or their preferred dealer got arrested.

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    • Replies: @prosa123
    "I’ve wondered a lot about how people who aren’t part of the drug scene go about becoming a part of it
    -Befriend some street prostitute and invite her and her peers into your home."

    In Mayflower Madam, Sydney Biddle Barrows noted that men who hired escorts from her agency often asked them for help in finding drugs, mainly cocaine, figuring that as the girls already were engaged in illegal activities they'd have knowledge of the drug scene.
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  25. @Wilkey
    The first bump (1890-1935) surely is due in part to World Wars 1 & 2, as well as the Spanish Flu, no?

    The deep trough in the early '70s is interesting. I was born in '76. That was the era where drugs weren't quite so cool (perhaps "Just Say No" was more effective than lefties give Nancy credit for) and when sex was honest to God deadly, with AIDS deaths peaking ca. 1987-1993. I pretty much assume that every other male celebrity who died during that time frame died from AIDS. AIDs definitely contributed at least a little to the spike in the '50s.

    People born in the early to mid-70s were flooded with propaganda discouraging us from drugs and unsafe sex, as well as the fitness boom. We had seat belts, airbags, anti-lock brakes, and never had to go to war.

    Social media seems to be weakening the effect of old school anti-drug propaganda, though. People seem to take a rather casual attitude towards drug and alcohol abuse these days, and are quite happy to brag about it on Facebook and elsewhere. The legalization of pot in several states is one consequence of that.

    I was born in the late 70s. I was terrified of drugs and sex. I didn’t pick up any addictions, but didn’t get laid until way too late. (Of course, the same personality that’s going to heed all the warnings is actually going to lack any game because women are attracted to confident risk-takers, so who knows.)

    The pot thing may be overdone.

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    • Replies: @Curious Odus
    Interesting question. I wonder if the AIDS hysteria served to depress the birthrate in the 1980s and 90s. Kids too young to remember the start of the epidemic would have internalised the subsequent propaganda about it being a predominantly heterosexual disease.
    , @Stebbing Heuer
    My experience too.

    It's only now, later in life, that I realise just how affected I was by the messages.

    It may be something to do with my INTP personality.

    And yes despite my best efforts I (still) have zero game.
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  26. @tsotha
    The other possibility is this cohort just happened to be at the right age to have painful medical problems when the opioid prescription pendulum was in the "prescribe more" position. Seems like it goes back and forth between "I can't get enough medication to control my pain" and "duuuuuuuude" in about a 20 year cycle. Heroin is around now like it hasn't been since the '70s - you don't need friends from fifty years ago to hook you up.

    The other piece of the puzzle is this generation is unmoored from the social institutions that used to help people deal with the onset of old age. A divorced atheist sitting at home on disability is going to have a lot more trouble coping than his fairly religious, still-married dad who meets up with the American Legion buddies to complain about aches and pains and the fact that his junk doesn't work any more.

    Those are really good points–I wonder if there’s a technical term for two things going wrong at once. Any engineers here?

    Also a good point about the death of social institutions. The one thing I’d say is that the old macho culture tended to discourage going to the doctor, so you had guys ignoring blood in their stool until the colon cancer had spread too far to remove.

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  27. Born in 1965 and have had two classmates die and a third is on death’s door. Suicide, anyeurism and cancer. All had some level of drug/alcohol abuse in their past. It’s ugly stuff.

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  28. I’m with SPMoore8, this is more about a huge subset of boomers who never sobered up or never admitted how bad their 20s drug binges were.

    My husband’s father, born 1948, was dead before 60 of lung cancer. He told the oncologist he never smoked, but skipped that he’d been stoned from 72-83 non stop (and had been a drunk until early 90s.) Pot isn’t smoking, the denial went. His brother was a junkie from he 70s until he died in the early 00s. Another friend of theirs is still growing pot for medical marijuana in CA. The users are all over 65-Medicare eligible folks claiming they need it now for their aches and pains. Others are suffering various cancers. Liver cancer seems to be awfully high for this age group.

    They aren’t looking up that high school friend on FB for their heroin. They never stopped on the first place.

    And they are likely to have broken the nuclear family, so their kids don’t want to help them in their pain and loneliness. Maybe they should have followed those quaint conservative values after all.

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  29. My guess here Steve is the pattern looks like this: The typical case is the white male born in the late 50′s and early 60′s. They came of age in the mid-70′s in a working class community where the drug culture finally arrived from the college campus. They grew up in a Dazed and Confused time and carried it with them into adulthood. In middle age the ravages of a life of partying or the normal onset of ennui results in an early death.

    An extreme example of this can be seen in the movie The Wild and Wonderful Whites of West Virginia. The Roden family that was recently executed in Ohio is another good example. Working the hillbilly heroin racket was just part of the culture, not a cause of it.

    The test of my theory would be a breakout of age, sex, education level, location and income.

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  30. @Tracy

    Say you are a middle-aged man who has had a bad back for a long time. You got hooked pretty heavily on prescription painkillers so your doctor has finally cut you off. But now the pain is back. If you graduated from high school in 1964, you probably don’t have many friends your age who knew back then where to buy drugs. It would be kind of embarrassing to start randomly asking your old high school buddies about where to get heroin.

    But if you graduated in 1975, you’d know a bunch of people from high school who, if they are still alive, know about drugs and might clue you in to where to get heroin.
     
    Highly perceptive, I think, Steve! There are a lot of chronic pain patients out there (I am one), and dealing with doctors, who are terrified of the DEA, is a pain in the ass. Family physicians want to hand you off to a specialist (which costs an arm and a leg, of course), and the specialists hold pain relief over you as if they're gods. The second to the last pain specialist I went to had me come in periodically and just talked to me -- and the entire time I was answering his questions about my personal life, he was looking me in the eye, but clacking away on his keyboard, taking notes, as if I were a psychiatric patient or something, or a criminal, and he was my parole officer, making sure I was sticking to the routine.

    They take urine samples to make sure you're actually taking your meds instead of selling them, the costs of which are yours to worry about even though it's the State that wants to know every little thing about your pee. There's this underlying "tone" in the air that gives the patient the impression that his doctor think he's a drug-seeking malingerer who has to prove himself before he pulls out his magical prescription pad. Some States have laws that force you to pay, twice a year, for very expensive but medically useless tests designed to appease the police rather than to serve you, the patient -- and then they charge the patient for it.

    The most recent pain doctor I went to had me wait 1 hour and 45 minutes before he deigned to see me for about 5 minutes max, which "seeing me" amounted to his looking at me as if I were some lowlife criminal and asking a few questions. The great takeaway was his contention that opiates could actually cause pain. Yes, he said that. Opiates cause pain. Who knew?

    And on and on and on it goes.

    It's no wonder to me at all why some chronic pain patients say "to Hell with it; I'm taking it to the streets. F*** this noise." And when they do, they're getting God-knows-what, in God-knows-what-doses, and often die. I put those deaths squarely at the feet of the DEA and the "war on drugs."

    I believe that all drugs but antibiotics should be legal. Truly, it's the only sane way to go. Those poor souls who want out of the gene pool will make their exits (God forbid); people who want pain relief can get it without being treated like pond scum; those vicious, machete-wielding cartels would disappear overnight; our police would become a lot less militarized; we'd save tons by not having to support drug users in prisons or could save tons by using even a portion of that money for rehab instead of incarceration; the black community might get a boost and have more fathers in their homes; doctors could once again practice effective medicine without fear of the Feds taking their licenses for prescribing "too many" opiates (i.e., having too many pain patients), etc.

    Another note on all this: that last pain specialist -- that "My Time is More Precious Than Yours, M.D." guy -- asked me if I'd tried Cymbalta yet, an SSRI (Selective Serotonin Re-uptake Inhibitor). Anyone out there who's been on an SSRI knows that coming off of those is Hellish. Because of the DEA (I assume), he'd rather have me on a new drug, an SSRI, with tons of side effects, hellish withdrawal symptoms, etc., etc., and that will probably turn out to have an associated lawyer commercial in a few years. "Have you been prescribed Cymbalta and lost liver function?" -- all while, meanwhile, there's a thousands of years old, God-made, perfect remedy for pain, a remedy that comes from the beautiful poppy, a remedy that works and that most pain patients can function just great on while taking. I get so mad thinking about all this nonsense.

    i 100% agree with tracy.
    & cymbalta is crap. in a few studies it’s slightly better than placebo at helping with CNS pain. but the statistically non-significant studies no doubt go unpublished.
    also, the fact that you have to go to the pharmacy every 30 days hat-in-hand, & they eke out 30 more pills for you. they should give you a barrel of pills. heaven forbid we should be trusted with freedom.

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  31. @SPMoore8
    I remember the "Greatest Generation" drank, constantly. They also chain smoked.

    The generation after them I think is called "The Quiet Generation" -- they seemed more abstemious.

    My fellow Boomers, many of them picked up the drug habit and never stopped. But the drug habit isn't just any particular drug, it's the idea that you have to self-medicate constantly. And many do. I can think of at least a couple cases where peers just dropped dead in their '50's from excessive "self medication." I don't believe that heroin was the cause (but I know some of those, too.) But it may well have been decades of alcohol, MJ, pain pills, meth, and cocaine abuse.

    I am going to guess that many of these deaths involve people either in young or later middle age who really don't have anything to do in their lives. That's the sad truth for a lot of people, even if they have kids, once the kids grow up and leave. However, you might be right that many of these people have a nearer connection to obtaining various types of drugs that keeps the Quiet Ones alive.

    “You don’t know how to drink. Your whole generation, you drink for the wrong reasons. My generation, we drink because it’s good, because it feels better than unbuttoning your collar, because we deserve it. We drink because it’s what men do.” – Roger Sterling (Greatest Gen) to Donald Draper (Silent Gen).

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  32. You got hooked pretty heavily on prescription painkillers so your doctor has finally cut you off.

    Dying from an opioid overdose is 100% preventable. The problem is that doctors have hitherto failed to teach their patients basic tolerance avoidance and to explain the very simple mechanism whereby an increasing tolerance can kill you (i.e., you need to slap on so many Fentanyl patches to feel anything that your respiratory system gets high, too, and you stop breathing).

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  33. Steve and commenters: is there any connection between drug consumption and the expansion of group health insurance beginning about the early 1940s?

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  34. @unpc downunder
    I was watching a documentary recently about the death of the actor Heath Ledger. The main drugs found in his system were anti-anxiety drugs and painkillers. Doctors these days don't like to give out drugs like Valium because they have the potential for addiction. However, a medical expert on the documentary pointed out that it was very unlikely someone could actually die from overdosing on doctor-perscribed sedatives like Valium. What killed Ledger was probably an overdose of high power pain killers (of a type usually only given to cancer patients) which he somehow acquired illegally. Interestingly pain killers not only help to dull physical pain, but they can also help to dull psychological pain, since the two types of pain are closely connected from a neurological perspective.

    Yes. It’s quite interesting. If you are in real physical pain and take, say, Percocet, you don’t really get high. But if you take it when you’re not really in pain, it makes you feel great!!

    If you ever break a leg, you can experiment with your prescription to experience the interconnection of physical pain and psychological whatever yourself.

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  35. @Tracy

    Say you are a middle-aged man who has had a bad back for a long time. You got hooked pretty heavily on prescription painkillers so your doctor has finally cut you off. But now the pain is back. If you graduated from high school in 1964, you probably don’t have many friends your age who knew back then where to buy drugs. It would be kind of embarrassing to start randomly asking your old high school buddies about where to get heroin.

    But if you graduated in 1975, you’d know a bunch of people from high school who, if they are still alive, know about drugs and might clue you in to where to get heroin.
     
    Highly perceptive, I think, Steve! There are a lot of chronic pain patients out there (I am one), and dealing with doctors, who are terrified of the DEA, is a pain in the ass. Family physicians want to hand you off to a specialist (which costs an arm and a leg, of course), and the specialists hold pain relief over you as if they're gods. The second to the last pain specialist I went to had me come in periodically and just talked to me -- and the entire time I was answering his questions about my personal life, he was looking me in the eye, but clacking away on his keyboard, taking notes, as if I were a psychiatric patient or something, or a criminal, and he was my parole officer, making sure I was sticking to the routine.

    They take urine samples to make sure you're actually taking your meds instead of selling them, the costs of which are yours to worry about even though it's the State that wants to know every little thing about your pee. There's this underlying "tone" in the air that gives the patient the impression that his doctor think he's a drug-seeking malingerer who has to prove himself before he pulls out his magical prescription pad. Some States have laws that force you to pay, twice a year, for very expensive but medically useless tests designed to appease the police rather than to serve you, the patient -- and then they charge the patient for it.

    The most recent pain doctor I went to had me wait 1 hour and 45 minutes before he deigned to see me for about 5 minutes max, which "seeing me" amounted to his looking at me as if I were some lowlife criminal and asking a few questions. The great takeaway was his contention that opiates could actually cause pain. Yes, he said that. Opiates cause pain. Who knew?

    And on and on and on it goes.

    It's no wonder to me at all why some chronic pain patients say "to Hell with it; I'm taking it to the streets. F*** this noise." And when they do, they're getting God-knows-what, in God-knows-what-doses, and often die. I put those deaths squarely at the feet of the DEA and the "war on drugs."

    I believe that all drugs but antibiotics should be legal. Truly, it's the only sane way to go. Those poor souls who want out of the gene pool will make their exits (God forbid); people who want pain relief can get it without being treated like pond scum; those vicious, machete-wielding cartels would disappear overnight; our police would become a lot less militarized; we'd save tons by not having to support drug users in prisons or could save tons by using even a portion of that money for rehab instead of incarceration; the black community might get a boost and have more fathers in their homes; doctors could once again practice effective medicine without fear of the Feds taking their licenses for prescribing "too many" opiates (i.e., having too many pain patients), etc.

    Another note on all this: that last pain specialist -- that "My Time is More Precious Than Yours, M.D." guy -- asked me if I'd tried Cymbalta yet, an SSRI (Selective Serotonin Re-uptake Inhibitor). Anyone out there who's been on an SSRI knows that coming off of those is Hellish. Because of the DEA (I assume), he'd rather have me on a new drug, an SSRI, with tons of side effects, hellish withdrawal symptoms, etc., etc., and that will probably turn out to have an associated lawyer commercial in a few years. "Have you been prescribed Cymbalta and lost liver function?" -- all while, meanwhile, there's a thousands of years old, God-made, perfect remedy for pain, a remedy that comes from the beautiful poppy, a remedy that works and that most pain patients can function just great on while taking. I get so mad thinking about all this nonsense.

    meanwhile, there’s a thousands of years old, God-made, perfect remedy for pain, a remedy that comes from the beautiful poppy

    Probably, if you’re serious about your pain, you shouldn’t venerate the poppy the way potheads venerate the maijuana plant. That’s probably the type of tell your pain specialist is looking for.

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  36. @SPMoore8
    I remember the "Greatest Generation" drank, constantly. They also chain smoked.

    The generation after them I think is called "The Quiet Generation" -- they seemed more abstemious.

    My fellow Boomers, many of them picked up the drug habit and never stopped. But the drug habit isn't just any particular drug, it's the idea that you have to self-medicate constantly. And many do. I can think of at least a couple cases where peers just dropped dead in their '50's from excessive "self medication." I don't believe that heroin was the cause (but I know some of those, too.) But it may well have been decades of alcohol, MJ, pain pills, meth, and cocaine abuse.

    I am going to guess that many of these deaths involve people either in young or later middle age who really don't have anything to do in their lives. That's the sad truth for a lot of people, even if they have kids, once the kids grow up and leave. However, you might be right that many of these people have a nearer connection to obtaining various types of drugs that keeps the Quiet Ones alive.

    don’t have anything to do in their lives. That’s the sad truth for a lot of people, even if they have kids, once the kids grow up and leave.

    Of course, usually the cycle of life produces grandchildren and other facets of the extended family, which suggests thst maybe the problem with this generation is not this generation per se.

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  37. http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2016/04/29/upshot/100000004369518.mobile.html

    More achievement gap news, ignoring elephant in room.

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  38. @SFG
    Oh, they've got that one--the 'hygiene hypothesis'. Apparently having killed all the environmental bugs our immune system starts looking for stuff to do and makes allergies and autoimmune disorders.

    Medical science says, 'oops' again.

    Allergies, maybe. I don’t buy the autoimmune part of that hypothesis for a moment. Our bodies in their natural state are simply not that dysfunctional. Oh, you managed to stay healthy? I will now self destruct your entire digestive tract!

    I had a professor in college who had been in bio research for many years. He swore that all this whatever-doesn’t-kill-you-makes-you-stronger approach to medicine was total b.s. The less exposure to virus, fungi, bacteria (and obv. protozoa) the healthier you will be. Besides, our globally mixed world probably has our bodies much more exposed to disease than our isolated ancestors in some mountaintop village. In fact the most isolated communities are the healthiest; Amish, Okinawa, etc.

    Speaking of human disease and fungi, all of the development of the South cannot be good. Valley Fever and who knows what else are swirling around every dusty new planned community.

    What about toxoplasmosis? Looking at the Internet and itts stupid cat pics/videos one would think cat ownership has gotten much more popular since our grandparents were young. Apparently Zika is a global emergency because it may or may not cause microcephaly, yet we KNOW toxoplasmosis does. But everyone keeps on with their gross pet habits. They estimate that half of cat owners are infected with the disease.

    OK so I am kind of a germaphobe.

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    • Replies: @Monopthalmus
    Our grandparents internet had a lot fewer cat pics, it's true... ;)

    I agree that there may be some risk of Toxoplasmosis by having cats around, but you forget hat in previous generations, nearly every farm or fishing town (not to mention the cities) were crawling with cats. House cats. Barn cats, dump cats, cats in the fishing stages down by the wharf, cats on the ships, etc. It was the only way to keep away the rats. People just didn't spend much time taking pictures of them.

    It isn't that new.
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  39. The only problem with this theory is that the supply lines have changed completely since your high school days. When you were in high school, you probably had to drive to the nearest black ghetto to score some heroin. Now there is a Mexican dude who will deliver to your house. It’s a whole new world with a completely different supply chain going back to different poppy fields in different parts of the world.

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    • Replies: @27 year old
    Around here it could be a white guy or even girl.

    Or you could just order online and USPS will drop it off to your mailbox.

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  40. @tsotha
    The other possibility is this cohort just happened to be at the right age to have painful medical problems when the opioid prescription pendulum was in the "prescribe more" position. Seems like it goes back and forth between "I can't get enough medication to control my pain" and "duuuuuuuude" in about a 20 year cycle. Heroin is around now like it hasn't been since the '70s - you don't need friends from fifty years ago to hook you up.

    The other piece of the puzzle is this generation is unmoored from the social institutions that used to help people deal with the onset of old age. A divorced atheist sitting at home on disability is going to have a lot more trouble coping than his fairly religious, still-married dad who meets up with the American Legion buddies to complain about aches and pains and the fact that his junk doesn't work any more.

    The latter is much more important than the former. People can always find something up to put themselves in oblivion, but they have to consider oblivion to be preferable to their lives. So in the late Soviet Empire it was alcohol, in the late Chinese Empire it was British opium, in the late American Empire it is Oxycontin and heroin, etc. First comes the despair.

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    • Agree: Travis
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  41. anon • Disclaimer says:

    Everyone who knows what happened in rust-belt towns after the jobs went knows what caused the massive spike in white suicide rates.

    It’s why the media covered it up.

    If this mortality spike had happened to any other ethnic group the anti-white media (only 2% Jewish) would be reporting it 24/7.

    #

    All these posts about the suicide spike and nearly all the comments are a joke – still as long as the real and obvious reason for the suicide spike gets Trump elected it doesn’t matter.

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    • Replies: @27 year old
    So like, what happened?
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  42. @SPMoore8
    I remember the "Greatest Generation" drank, constantly. They also chain smoked.

    The generation after them I think is called "The Quiet Generation" -- they seemed more abstemious.

    My fellow Boomers, many of them picked up the drug habit and never stopped. But the drug habit isn't just any particular drug, it's the idea that you have to self-medicate constantly. And many do. I can think of at least a couple cases where peers just dropped dead in their '50's from excessive "self medication." I don't believe that heroin was the cause (but I know some of those, too.) But it may well have been decades of alcohol, MJ, pain pills, meth, and cocaine abuse.

    I am going to guess that many of these deaths involve people either in young or later middle age who really don't have anything to do in their lives. That's the sad truth for a lot of people, even if they have kids, once the kids grow up and leave. However, you might be right that many of these people have a nearer connection to obtaining various types of drugs that keeps the Quiet Ones alive.

    Hippie culture +Rock&Roll +Drugs +Vietnam were big factors. The Meases, Costlows, Loftins, Taylors, and other hillbilly families were hit hard in my neck of the woods. Young men whose uncles and daddies might have gotten in bar fights, poached fish or black walnut trees, and made a little moonshine found themselves in a much, much darker place.

    The story of Darrell Mease (“Almost Midnight“) is a textbook case. As is the story in “Winter’s Bone” filmed in the same county.

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  43. @SFG
    I was born in the late 70s. I was terrified of drugs and sex. I didn't pick up any addictions, but didn't get laid until way too late. (Of course, the same personality that's going to heed all the warnings is actually going to lack any game because women are attracted to confident risk-takers, so who knows.)

    The pot thing may be overdone.

    Interesting question. I wonder if the AIDS hysteria served to depress the birthrate in the 1980s and 90s. Kids too young to remember the start of the epidemic would have internalised the subsequent propaganda about it being a predominantly heterosexual disease.

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    • Replies: @Ozymandias
    "I wonder if the AIDS hysteria served to depress the birthrate in the 1980s and 90s."

    As far back as the 70s the "overpopulation" narrative was being pushed. The entire planet was going to die if we didn't slow down. And thanks to the pill we could. The responsible people anyway. Later they learned that they would need to make room for those who hadn't slowed down, due to the fact that they were no longer reproducing fast enough. It's a very fine line to walk, apparently.
    , @SFG
    Ironically, I actually knew I was probably not going to get AIDS...but could get child-ordered child support payments. I'd make some joke about that being worse, but AIDS was a death sentence in the 80s.
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  44. I believe that all drugs but antibiotics should be legal.

    Hear, hear. This is why I can’t get all sentimental about just legalizing pot per se. There are other drugs out there that the dealers truck in. And pot is too psychedelic for me now. Actually had a psychotic reaction to it once. Cue the video..

    I just went through backflips trying to get something for my lower back flareup, which will blow over in a few days, and ended up with this worthless Tramadol. Because guys in the Midwest OD on opioids..Darwin award candidates, I say.

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  45. If you graduated back in 1964, you went to Vietnam and learned about drugs real quick. Lonnie, 13, was getting shipments of “OJs” (opiated joints) through the US Mail from his brothers fighting in Vietnam. No grownup in our rural county had a clue what was going on. And even if they did, they likely didn’t care.

    Pharmaceuticals weren’t “Drugs” back then. My sainted but chubby mother was seeing two doctors and three pharmacists to get enough amphetamines (aka “diet pills”). My father had no clue why she was wigged out until the mid-60s when two of the local pharmacists compared notes and approached him.

    Heck, back then you could buy benzedrine inhalers over the counter.

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  46. I hope this isn’t a cry for help.

    Anyway, speaking as someone who graduated from high school in 1983 and later developed an unhealthy interest in cocaine for a while, and whose first marriage dissolved as a result of his then-wife’s even unhealthier interest in cocaine, and whose current wife was widowed at about the same time when she returned from her parents’ house in NJ to find her husband dead on the floor in TriBeCa from a heroin overdose, this analysis sounds about right to me.

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  47. In Staten Island, New York, someone dies of a drug overdose every other day. At the same time, up to 48,000 federally convicted drug dealers are being given early release from jail. NY state is doing the same plus no longer are drug addicts being criminally charged no matter what amount of drugs are found in their possession. Chicago just started the same program and will no longer even print and photograph the offender.

    Add to these releases:

    “In 2015, ICE freed 19,723 criminal aliens, who had a total of 64,197 convictions among them. These included 8,234 violent convictions and 208 homicide convictions.”

    http://cis.org/vaughan/ice-releases-19723-criminal-aliens-2015

    Federal prisoner release program:

    https://www.themarshallproject.org/2015/10/06/what-you-need-to-know-about-the-new-federal-prisoner-release#.3HLXTCdgP

    Chicago:

    https://secondcitycop.blogspot.com/2016/04/not-our-job.html

    Maybe someone can explain what the hell is going on!

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  48. @Jack D
    The only problem with this theory is that the supply lines have changed completely since your high school days. When you were in high school, you probably had to drive to the nearest black ghetto to score some heroin. Now there is a Mexican dude who will deliver to your house. It's a whole new world with a completely different supply chain going back to different poppy fields in different parts of the world.

    Around here it could be a white guy or even girl.

    Or you could just order online and USPS will drop it off to your mailbox.

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  49. @SPMoore8
    I remember the "Greatest Generation" drank, constantly. They also chain smoked.

    The generation after them I think is called "The Quiet Generation" -- they seemed more abstemious.

    My fellow Boomers, many of them picked up the drug habit and never stopped. But the drug habit isn't just any particular drug, it's the idea that you have to self-medicate constantly. And many do. I can think of at least a couple cases where peers just dropped dead in their '50's from excessive "self medication." I don't believe that heroin was the cause (but I know some of those, too.) But it may well have been decades of alcohol, MJ, pain pills, meth, and cocaine abuse.

    I am going to guess that many of these deaths involve people either in young or later middle age who really don't have anything to do in their lives. That's the sad truth for a lot of people, even if they have kids, once the kids grow up and leave. However, you might be right that many of these people have a nearer connection to obtaining various types of drugs that keeps the Quiet Ones alive.

    Excuse the pedantry but this is a big pet peeve. When referring to human age one does not use an apostrophe before the decade. And try to avoid apostrophes for plural. Use an apostrophe only for calendrical decades in centuries greater than 1.

    Example: Most people born in the ’60s are currently in their 50s.

    Example: Jesus died in his 30s in the 30s.

    Pedant signing out.

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    • Replies: @neon2
    Nt at all. When I was young all of this was second nature to me.
    Now that I am over 65 I need reminding, and I expect Moore does to.
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  50. @WGG
    You are assuming that something in the behavior of the younger boomers is currently different than the older boomers. That is a big assumption. If they indeed used drugs significantly more frequently in youth, that alone could have health effects years later, even if they cleaned up in their 20th or 30s. Studies show that former drug users are more overweight than people who never used.

    Another theory is environmental exposure. The people now in their late fifties were the first generation to receive the tainted polio vaccine in the 1950s. We have no way of knowing what the long term effects of virus SV-40 are. The oral vaccine that proceeded the SV-40 vaccines can also cause polio itself, and would be considered exposure. What about a correlation between looser late 1960s morals and oral herpes virus? Any of these pathogens may cause higher rates of cancer and autoimmune diseases later in life. Certainly there is something odd in the fact that I personally know so many people with autoimmune diseases.

    We have no way of knowing what the long term effects of virus SV-40 are.

    We have know way of knowing what the long term effects of Corn Flakes are.

    We have know way of knowing what the long term effects of soap are.

    We have know way of knowing what the long term effects of tofu are.

    Etc.

    But we do know what the short term effects of the polio virus are – paralysis, life in an iron lung, death. I’ll take my chances on the vaccine.

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    • Agree: Jim Don Bob
    • Replies: @WGG
    Your reasoning is simplistic and flawed. The worst case scenario of polio may be death, but that is also the worst case scenario for the vaccine. You must compare the probability of harm under both circumstances, taking the vaccine or not taking it. That requires a blind study using a control group, a protocol which is almost never used for vaccines.

    Besides, you know you have to consume infected feces to contract polio, right? What are your weekends like?
    , @The most deplorable one

    But we do know what the short term effects of the polio virus are – paralysis, life in an iron lung, death. I’ll take my chances on the vaccine.
     
    For the vast majority of us (check the wiki page on how many develop paralysis), especially those of us who were breast fed, there is little risk from the polio virus but there might be some risk from what that were putting in the vaccine, who knows.

    Interestingly, this paper seems to refer to real data and studies:

    http://www.thinktwice.com/Polio.pdf

    Because I am engaged in chasing down references for another subject, I don't have time to chase down the references therein, but maybe some day.

    SIR models would be interesting as well.
    , @ScarletNumber
    LOL @ misspelling "no" three times
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  51. @Wilkey
    The first bump (1890-1935) surely is due in part to World Wars 1 & 2, as well as the Spanish Flu, no?

    The deep trough in the early '70s is interesting. I was born in '76. That was the era where drugs weren't quite so cool (perhaps "Just Say No" was more effective than lefties give Nancy credit for) and when sex was honest to God deadly, with AIDS deaths peaking ca. 1987-1993. I pretty much assume that every other male celebrity who died during that time frame died from AIDS. AIDs definitely contributed at least a little to the spike in the '50s.

    People born in the early to mid-70s were flooded with propaganda discouraging us from drugs and unsafe sex, as well as the fitness boom. We had seat belts, airbags, anti-lock brakes, and never had to go to war.

    Social media seems to be weakening the effect of old school anti-drug propaganda, though. People seem to take a rather casual attitude towards drug and alcohol abuse these days, and are quite happy to brag about it on Facebook and elsewhere. The legalization of pot in several states is one consequence of that.

    Weed legalization is largely due to the dying off of the elderly generation brought up in an era when cannabis use was associated with the coloreds. The boomers can’t object too much since so many partook in their youth and the younger generations are coming into power and have no use for the silly stigmas of their grandparents.

    With all due respect to the late Schoolmarm Nancy, just say no to mindless government propaganda.

    For the record, I am very aware of the harmfulness of the wacky tobacky, but compared to alcohol it is essentially harmless.

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  52. @Tracy
    I've wondered a lot about how people who aren't part of the drug scene go about becoming a part of it. You can't go knocking on doors, ya know? "Pardon me, but may I borrow a cuppa sugar? And, by the way, you know where I can score some heroin?" Or how do people arrange to hire hit men? Do they go to scruffy bars and ask around or --- ? Where's that secret door to the demimonde? LOL

    I have the same reaction, like a middle-aged white guy can wander around sketchy neighborhoods asking who’s got drugs. You also hear things like, “In this town you can buy a handgun on any street corner.” Really? Where is that street corner? Who do you talk to there?

    As far as practical advice, I would suggest the inquiring fellow go to NA meetings. That’s where addicts get to know each other and they relapse constantly. They spoofed this on “Breaking Bad,” when Skinny Pete and Badger go to an NA meeting to promote Jesse’s high-quality meth.

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    • Replies: @yaqub the mad scientist
    As far as practical advice, I would suggest the inquiring fellow go to NA meetings. That’s where addicts get to know each other and they relapse constantly. They spoofed this on “Breaking Bad,” when Skinny Pete and Badger go to an NA meeting to promote Jesse’s high-quality meth.

    I was walking down the street when I was young, and this dude pulls up to me- white van with three colors of primer, garbage bag ducttaped to replace a window, mullet, molester moustache, you couldn't ask for a better stereotype- and he asks, "Hey man, would you like to make some money roofin'?" I pointed down the street and said, "No, but Narcotics Anonymous is right on the corner. I bet you can find plenty of roofers there."

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  53. @Tracy

    Say you are a middle-aged man who has had a bad back for a long time. You got hooked pretty heavily on prescription painkillers so your doctor has finally cut you off. But now the pain is back. If you graduated from high school in 1964, you probably don’t have many friends your age who knew back then where to buy drugs. It would be kind of embarrassing to start randomly asking your old high school buddies about where to get heroin.

    But if you graduated in 1975, you’d know a bunch of people from high school who, if they are still alive, know about drugs and might clue you in to where to get heroin.
     
    Highly perceptive, I think, Steve! There are a lot of chronic pain patients out there (I am one), and dealing with doctors, who are terrified of the DEA, is a pain in the ass. Family physicians want to hand you off to a specialist (which costs an arm and a leg, of course), and the specialists hold pain relief over you as if they're gods. The second to the last pain specialist I went to had me come in periodically and just talked to me -- and the entire time I was answering his questions about my personal life, he was looking me in the eye, but clacking away on his keyboard, taking notes, as if I were a psychiatric patient or something, or a criminal, and he was my parole officer, making sure I was sticking to the routine.

    They take urine samples to make sure you're actually taking your meds instead of selling them, the costs of which are yours to worry about even though it's the State that wants to know every little thing about your pee. There's this underlying "tone" in the air that gives the patient the impression that his doctor think he's a drug-seeking malingerer who has to prove himself before he pulls out his magical prescription pad. Some States have laws that force you to pay, twice a year, for very expensive but medically useless tests designed to appease the police rather than to serve you, the patient -- and then they charge the patient for it.

    The most recent pain doctor I went to had me wait 1 hour and 45 minutes before he deigned to see me for about 5 minutes max, which "seeing me" amounted to his looking at me as if I were some lowlife criminal and asking a few questions. The great takeaway was his contention that opiates could actually cause pain. Yes, he said that. Opiates cause pain. Who knew?

    And on and on and on it goes.

    It's no wonder to me at all why some chronic pain patients say "to Hell with it; I'm taking it to the streets. F*** this noise." And when they do, they're getting God-knows-what, in God-knows-what-doses, and often die. I put those deaths squarely at the feet of the DEA and the "war on drugs."

    I believe that all drugs but antibiotics should be legal. Truly, it's the only sane way to go. Those poor souls who want out of the gene pool will make their exits (God forbid); people who want pain relief can get it without being treated like pond scum; those vicious, machete-wielding cartels would disappear overnight; our police would become a lot less militarized; we'd save tons by not having to support drug users in prisons or could save tons by using even a portion of that money for rehab instead of incarceration; the black community might get a boost and have more fathers in their homes; doctors could once again practice effective medicine without fear of the Feds taking their licenses for prescribing "too many" opiates (i.e., having too many pain patients), etc.

    Another note on all this: that last pain specialist -- that "My Time is More Precious Than Yours, M.D." guy -- asked me if I'd tried Cymbalta yet, an SSRI (Selective Serotonin Re-uptake Inhibitor). Anyone out there who's been on an SSRI knows that coming off of those is Hellish. Because of the DEA (I assume), he'd rather have me on a new drug, an SSRI, with tons of side effects, hellish withdrawal symptoms, etc., etc., and that will probably turn out to have an associated lawyer commercial in a few years. "Have you been prescribed Cymbalta and lost liver function?" -- all while, meanwhile, there's a thousands of years old, God-made, perfect remedy for pain, a remedy that comes from the beautiful poppy, a remedy that works and that most pain patients can function just great on while taking. I get so mad thinking about all this nonsense.

    Making opiates freely available is not a good idea. A certain % of the population will become addicted to the point where they are no longer productive citizens and a certain % will OD and die. Making opiates freely available increases this percentage -if you could just go down to the supermarket and buy a bottle of heroin like a bottle of aspirin, a LOT more people would use and ultimately die as a result. The time wasters that you cite – having to sit in a waiting room for hours, being asked stupid personal questions, etc. do not weed out addicts but they do weed out recreational users who are not going to waste 1/2 their day just to get some pills and those recreational users then do not graduate to addiction.

    The REAL crime has been the criminalization of marijuana. Exactly ZERO people in all of history have died of marijuana overdose. It’s safer than 99% of the stuff on the shelf in the drugstore. For something that is psychoactive it is extraordinarily safe. There are high functioning individuals who have used it for decades and it doesn’t seem to interfere with their ability to function in society. Alcohol is much more dangerous but the legal treatment of the two has been strikingly different. Somehow the lessons of Prohibition did not carry over at all.

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    • Replies: @alaska3636
    Drug-seeking behavior like many human traits appears to flat-line at much smaller percentage than people think. Probably, because even if you really enjoyed opiates, most people still are driven by social and economic pressures that curb their worst instincts.

    For those unfazed by those pressures, making things illegal just causes them to get creative with how they obtain their fix. In Western Australia, aboriginals huffing gasoline is a legitimate problem. Nobody suggests making gasoline illegal because their is a critical mass of people who otherwise enjoy gasoline without going overboard.

    I'm surprised that you don't see the same logic with cannabis. A lot of people think that cannabis legalization will cause a spike in pot heads, which doesn't appear to be the case. Portugal has had success in recent years with decriminalizing all drugs and treating drug use as a health problem rather than a law enforcement one.

    Commenters on this board seem flummoxed how people could go about getting heroin. I'm not into heroin but drugs are usually really easy to find for people willing to go to the nearest "sketchy" part of town. The term "narc" describes really obvious attempts at entrapping potential drug suppliers; which is to say, if a person goes about earnestly enough, the drugs will not be hard to find.
    , @Mr. Anon
    Opiates (laudanum and paregoric) and stimulants like cocaine could be purchased without prescription at your corner drugstore up through 1914. The nation did not fall apart - quite the contrary. However, at that time, we didn't have a population so steeped in nihilism as today, or a social welfare system that subsidized their addictions, so what you say is probably right.
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  54. Today is Claude Shannon’s birthday:

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    • Replies: @SFG
    You know, when I saw the Google Doodle, I thought, 'wow, they finally decided to let a white guy have the spot'?
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  55. @Jack D

    We have no way of knowing what the long term effects of virus SV-40 are.
     
    We have know way of knowing what the long term effects of Corn Flakes are.

    We have know way of knowing what the long term effects of soap are.

    We have know way of knowing what the long term effects of tofu are.

    Etc.


    But we do know what the short term effects of the polio virus are - paralysis, life in an iron lung, death. I'll take my chances on the vaccine.

    Your reasoning is simplistic and flawed. The worst case scenario of polio may be death, but that is also the worst case scenario for the vaccine. You must compare the probability of harm under both circumstances, taking the vaccine or not taking it. That requires a blind study using a control group, a protocol which is almost never used for vaccines.

    Besides, you know you have to consume infected feces to contract polio, right? What are your weekends like?

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    • Replies: @Daniel Williams

    Your reasoning is simplistic and flawed. The worst case scenario of polio may be death, but that is also the worst case scenario for the vaccine.
     
    By your logic, societies should pre-plan with equal seriousness for floods and space creature attacks. Both would result in mass destruction, although the evidence that space creatures actually exist is only compelling to a handful of obsessives on the Internet.

    Compare the number of people who died or were crippled by polio—actual people currently occupying oblong boxes in graveyards—to the number of hypothetical deaths from being vaccinated and tell us all about simplistic arguments.

    You personally are unlikely to contract polio by going unvaccinated, just like you're unlikely to cause a famine by allowing your cattle to overgraze on the public pasture. But if everyone does...
    , @Jack D
    Yes, exactly. FDR got polio because he like to eat poo for breakfast. None of us could ever get it because no Mexican lettuce picker has ever taken a dump in a lettuce field, ever.
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  56. On the topic of outliers:

    Donald Fagen is a man of a certain age whose creative output exceeds in volume and quality what he did as a young man with Steely Dan.

    Here’s his very funky 2014 album, Kamakiriad:

    Another oldie but goodie is Jeff Lynne who continues to put out his brand of tight, self-produced smooth rock under the ELO label. Here is an album of covers he did in 2012:
    Long Wave

    Everyone knows Paul McCartney was a freak; but, he is still compellingly charming musically. He just did an album of jazz songs called Kisses on the Bottom. Here’s his take on I’m Gonna Sit Right Down and Write Myself a Letter:

    Sadly, people forgot that music has a definite structure and flow that takes actual work and talent to understand and manipulate. Prince, Bowie and Frey could all understand these ideas.

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    • Replies: @Okie
    Factual correction kamakiriad is Over 2 decades old 1993 but is pretty great. Fagin tours with Steely Dan a lot more than putting out new music these days
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  57. The question I have that no one here seems to be asking is why so many people have “bad backs” to begin with. Maybe I’m clueless, but it seems to me that people are taking pain killers because they are experiencing actual pain that they are treating (self-medicating). What is causing this pain? Perhaps we need an effective treatment for that so that people no longer have to take pain killers.

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    • Replies: @Mr. Anon
    "The question I have that no one here seems to be asking is why so many people have “bad backs” to begin with."

    I think for a lot of guys who work in construction and trades it is a real organic condition, caused by the work they do, and that work is hard on the body.

    A lot of it might be to our modern sedentary way of life. Too many people sit for too long and too many people are overweight.

    There is one fellow, who now has a large following, Dr. John Sarno, who maintains that back pain is largely mental, and the result of stress. He pointed out that, prior to the 1970s, stomach ulcers were one of the chief health complaints of middle-class men with moderately-to-very responsible jobs. It was a common trope - Jack Lemmon as Felix Unger in The Odd Couple, for example. By the 1980s, nobody claimed to have ulcers anymore - they had back pain. I am not entirely sold on the idea, but I must admit, after I heard about it, and it was in the back of my mind, I have experienced less back pain myself.
    , @prosa123
    "The question I have that no one here seems to be asking is why so many people have “bad backs” to begin with. Maybe I’m clueless, but it seems to me that people are taking pain killers because they are experiencing actual pain that they are treating (self-medicating). What is causing this pain? "

    People have figured out that claiming to have back pain is a fairly easy way to get Social Security Disability. It's very difficult to prove that a person claiming to have back pain doesn't have it.
    , @NickG

    Here’s his very funky 2014 album, Kamakiriad
     
    You're adrift 21 years! Kamakiriad was released in 1993.

    I knew this instantly, having moved from the UK to Johannesburg that year where the cassette got worn out driving around in the VW Golf GTI without aircon that I'd ha shipped out from the UK.

    Tomorrow's Girls - Groovy video
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  58. Here’s the thing, regular MD’s are getting out of the pain management business because of the DEA. Heck even to get a refill of Vicodin, requires a patient to get a paper prescription from the physician. It’s a hassle for a doctor since s/he may have several hundred patients who use them.
    If you have a chronic condition that say requires more than 3 Vicodin a day – they’ll refer you to a pain management clinic.

    The pain management clinics are a PITA to deal with though as one other poster here has pointed out. Yes, they make you fill out a very long questionnaire too and make you wait. It’s a very unpleasant place.

    It can drive people to buy drugs off the street. However the cost is prohibitive. A single Vicodin will go for $20(which is the going price in my area), so unless you got a lot of cash burning a hole in your wallet, it’s not a option. Not unless you know a dealer that handles large quantities of opiate based drugs.

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  59. @Jack D
    Making opiates freely available is not a good idea. A certain % of the population will become addicted to the point where they are no longer productive citizens and a certain % will OD and die. Making opiates freely available increases this percentage -if you could just go down to the supermarket and buy a bottle of heroin like a bottle of aspirin, a LOT more people would use and ultimately die as a result. The time wasters that you cite - having to sit in a waiting room for hours, being asked stupid personal questions, etc. do not weed out addicts but they do weed out recreational users who are not going to waste 1/2 their day just to get some pills and those recreational users then do not graduate to addiction.

    The REAL crime has been the criminalization of marijuana. Exactly ZERO people in all of history have died of marijuana overdose. It's safer than 99% of the stuff on the shelf in the drugstore. For something that is psychoactive it is extraordinarily safe. There are high functioning individuals who have used it for decades and it doesn't seem to interfere with their ability to function in society. Alcohol is much more dangerous but the legal treatment of the two has been strikingly different. Somehow the lessons of Prohibition did not carry over at all.

    Drug-seeking behavior like many human traits appears to flat-line at much smaller percentage than people think. Probably, because even if you really enjoyed opiates, most people still are driven by social and economic pressures that curb their worst instincts.

    For those unfazed by those pressures, making things illegal just causes them to get creative with how they obtain their fix. In Western Australia, aboriginals huffing gasoline is a legitimate problem. Nobody suggests making gasoline illegal because their is a critical mass of people who otherwise enjoy gasoline without going overboard.

    I’m surprised that you don’t see the same logic with cannabis. A lot of people think that cannabis legalization will cause a spike in pot heads, which doesn’t appear to be the case. Portugal has had success in recent years with decriminalizing all drugs and treating drug use as a health problem rather than a law enforcement one.

    Commenters on this board seem flummoxed how people could go about getting heroin. I’m not into heroin but drugs are usually really easy to find for people willing to go to the nearest “sketchy” part of town. The term “narc” describes really obvious attempts at entrapping potential drug suppliers; which is to say, if a person goes about earnestly enough, the drugs will not be hard to find.

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  60. @Coemgen
    1915 spike plus 20 years = the middle of the Great Depression
    1955 spike plus 20 years = the middle of the "misery index" era
    1980 spike plus 20 years = the end of the "new economy"

    Maybe it's a male's social and economic status at the start of adulthood that influences his longevity.

    The male experience will elicit no sympathy from the SJW community. Their hypocritical core “beliefs” and feelz override rational thought. They will sneer about privilege and male tears, then tilt at the next windmill.

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  61. @syonredux
    Today is Claude Shannon's birthday:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GF3zyIMekws

    You know, when I saw the Google Doodle, I thought, ‘wow, they finally decided to let a white guy have the spot’?

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    • Agree: Kylie
    • Replies: @syonredux

    You know, when I saw the Google Doodle, I thought, ‘wow, they finally decided to let a white guy have the spot’?
     
    Pretty amazing coming from the ultra-PC GOOGLE. I suppose that his massive importance to information theory overrode ideology.

    In any case, I'm glad to see it happen. Shannon is one of those people who should be better known.
    , @Brutusale
    I would imagine that it was only because it was a milestone 100th birthday.
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  62. @SFG
    You know, when I saw the Google Doodle, I thought, 'wow, they finally decided to let a white guy have the spot'?

    You know, when I saw the Google Doodle, I thought, ‘wow, they finally decided to let a white guy have the spot’?

    Pretty amazing coming from the ultra-PC GOOGLE. I suppose that his massive importance to information theory overrode ideology.

    In any case, I’m glad to see it happen. Shannon is one of those people who should be better known.

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    • Replies: @SFg
    Yeah, I think their nerd overcame their SJW there.
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  63. Tranquilizers, like Valium and Xanax potentiate the fatal respiratory depressive effects of opioid pain medication. With some prescription opioids, like methadone, the therapeutic window is very narrow before a dose of the drug wanders into the toxic range. There is significant individual susceptibility. No one should be surprised at how freely incompetent ‘providers’ would double prescribe opioids and tranquillizers unaware that the patient was already on dangerous medications. Often fatal overdoses are signed off as ‘fatal polypharmacy’ when the level of any individual drug is not in the toxic range. This category accounts for an important cause in the recent increase of premature deaths among Americans.
    Many drug deaths have been directly due to irresponsible or incompetent prescribing. Prescription opiates have been the gateway drugs for heroin addiction. No one is ever held accountable except the victim.

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    • Replies: @BenKenobi
    I've done Xanax in a party setting a handful of times. I found it to be a downer version of ecstasy -- it put this wonderful hedonistic sheen on things but wasn't also going to keep you up all night.

    I decided in the end it was waaaaayy too rich for my blood. I couldn't believe doctors gave out the stuff.

    It might surprise/amuse some members of this community that love of pharmaceuticals (esp Xanax & Promethazine) comprises approximately 15% of current rap lyrics.
    , @Brutusale
    Polypharmacy has been the death of so many in the entertainment field. Kevin Dubrow, late lead singer for the band Quiet Riot, died at 52 of a cocaine overdose. His brother Terry, an MD, said it was Kevin's dabbling in different drugs that killed him; a speedball's effect on a 52-year old is much more pronounced than on a 25-year old.

    I find myself thinking that it was the case in Prince's death.
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  64. I believe that all drugs but antibiotics should be legal … we’d save tons by not having to support drug users in prisons … the black community might get a boost and have more fathers in their homes …

    Gold jewellery, North Face jackets, and Air Jordan are legal, but expensive. Blacks routinely injure or kill each other for these treasures. Imagine what they’d do for something addictive.

    Unless your all-drugs-are-legal policy includes a guaranteed income for all citizens, making highly addictive drugs like crack *more* available than they are today will yield a lot more crime, especially among impulsive blacks.

    Blacks agitated for more aggressive sentencing for crack dealers in the eighties because—unlike armchair theorists and libertarians—they had observed firsthand that drug’s effect on young black men.

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  65. The most deplorable one [AKA "Fourth doorman of the apocalypse"] says:
    @Jack D

    We have no way of knowing what the long term effects of virus SV-40 are.
     
    We have know way of knowing what the long term effects of Corn Flakes are.

    We have know way of knowing what the long term effects of soap are.

    We have know way of knowing what the long term effects of tofu are.

    Etc.


    But we do know what the short term effects of the polio virus are - paralysis, life in an iron lung, death. I'll take my chances on the vaccine.

    But we do know what the short term effects of the polio virus are – paralysis, life in an iron lung, death. I’ll take my chances on the vaccine.

    For the vast majority of us (check the wiki page on how many develop paralysis), especially those of us who were breast fed, there is little risk from the polio virus but there might be some risk from what that were putting in the vaccine, who knows.

    Interestingly, this paper seems to refer to real data and studies:

    http://www.thinktwice.com/Polio.pdf

    Because I am engaged in chasing down references for another subject, I don’t have time to chase down the references therein, but maybe some day.

    SIR models would be interesting as well.

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  66. @WGG
    Your reasoning is simplistic and flawed. The worst case scenario of polio may be death, but that is also the worst case scenario for the vaccine. You must compare the probability of harm under both circumstances, taking the vaccine or not taking it. That requires a blind study using a control group, a protocol which is almost never used for vaccines.

    Besides, you know you have to consume infected feces to contract polio, right? What are your weekends like?

    Your reasoning is simplistic and flawed. The worst case scenario of polio may be death, but that is also the worst case scenario for the vaccine.

    By your logic, societies should pre-plan with equal seriousness for floods and space creature attacks. Both would result in mass destruction, although the evidence that space creatures actually exist is only compelling to a handful of obsessives on the Internet.

    Compare the number of people who died or were crippled by polio—actual people currently occupying oblong boxes in graveyards—to the number of hypothetical deaths from being vaccinated and tell us all about simplistic arguments.

    You personally are unlikely to contract polio by going unvaccinated, just like you’re unlikely to cause a famine by allowing your cattle to overgraze on the public pasture. But if everyone does…

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  67. @AndrewR
    Excuse the pedantry but this is a big pet peeve. When referring to human age one does not use an apostrophe before the decade. And try to avoid apostrophes for plural. Use an apostrophe only for calendrical decades in centuries greater than 1.

    Example: Most people born in the '60s are currently in their 50s.

    Example: Jesus died in his 30s in the 30s.

    Pedant signing out.

    Nt at all. When I was young all of this was second nature to me.
    Now that I am over 65 I need reminding, and I expect Moore does to.

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  68. I peruse the arrests here in the Sarasota/Bradenton area and it has the highest rate of heroin overdoses in Florida. It really soared after 2013 when the State and DEA shut the pill mills that were dispensing pharmacuetical opioids.

    The thing is those dying of drug ODs are not baby boomers. They are young people. In their twenties and early thirties. I don’t think many IV drug addicts are going to live long enough ( or stay out of prison) to relapse in their fifties from a bad back. Its tends to be an ‘all- in’ lifestyle. That said, if Sailer’s contention about the ‘baby boomers’ is true we aint seen nothing yet compared to the current population of IV drug abusers.

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    • Agree: Travis
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  69. @Jack D
    Making opiates freely available is not a good idea. A certain % of the population will become addicted to the point where they are no longer productive citizens and a certain % will OD and die. Making opiates freely available increases this percentage -if you could just go down to the supermarket and buy a bottle of heroin like a bottle of aspirin, a LOT more people would use and ultimately die as a result. The time wasters that you cite - having to sit in a waiting room for hours, being asked stupid personal questions, etc. do not weed out addicts but they do weed out recreational users who are not going to waste 1/2 their day just to get some pills and those recreational users then do not graduate to addiction.

    The REAL crime has been the criminalization of marijuana. Exactly ZERO people in all of history have died of marijuana overdose. It's safer than 99% of the stuff on the shelf in the drugstore. For something that is psychoactive it is extraordinarily safe. There are high functioning individuals who have used it for decades and it doesn't seem to interfere with their ability to function in society. Alcohol is much more dangerous but the legal treatment of the two has been strikingly different. Somehow the lessons of Prohibition did not carry over at all.

    Opiates (laudanum and paregoric) and stimulants like cocaine could be purchased without prescription at your corner drugstore up through 1914. The nation did not fall apart – quite the contrary. However, at that time, we didn’t have a population so steeped in nihilism as today, or a social welfare system that subsidized their addictions, so what you say is probably right.

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    • Replies: @Alice
    In the teens, our nation was falling apart. That's why the temperance movement began--because so many men were drugged and drunk until they were useless, leaving their wives and kids destitute. It was horrible and degenerate. It had to change.

    But we had no welfare system then, so it wasn't possible to maintain the useless behavior while kids were fed by Uncle Sam.

    It's worth asking as well what was the racial makeup of the ones who were the losers. The Irish had a taste for such things, assuredly. So did others.

    Look at which ethnic groups we have now who'd be most susceptible, and look at welfare now.

    To paraphrase: drug legalization, immigration, or welfare, pick 2. But we are really down to one. You can't have drug legalization and welfare. You can't have legalization and immigration either.
    , @Jim Don Bob
    Right. In 1914, you worked or you didn't eat.
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  70. @Harry Baldwin
    I have the same reaction, like a middle-aged white guy can wander around sketchy neighborhoods asking who's got drugs. You also hear things like, "In this town you can buy a handgun on any street corner." Really? Where is that street corner? Who do you talk to there?

    As far as practical advice, I would suggest the inquiring fellow go to NA meetings. That's where addicts get to know each other and they relapse constantly. They spoofed this on "Breaking Bad," when Skinny Pete and Badger go to an NA meeting to promote Jesse's high-quality meth.

    As far as practical advice, I would suggest the inquiring fellow go to NA meetings. That’s where addicts get to know each other and they relapse constantly. They spoofed this on “Breaking Bad,” when Skinny Pete and Badger go to an NA meeting to promote Jesse’s high-quality meth.

    I was walking down the street when I was young, and this dude pulls up to me- white van with three colors of primer, garbage bag ducttaped to replace a window, mullet, molester moustache, you couldn’t ask for a better stereotype- and he asks, “Hey man, would you like to make some money roofin’?” I pointed down the street and said, “No, but Narcotics Anonymous is right on the corner. I bet you can find plenty of roofers there.”

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  71. @SFG
    It's part of the whole idea that you have to feel good constantly. The whole idea of 'grin and bear it' is dead.

    I think you got that right. People’s aim today is being happy whereas being happy should be a byproduct of reaching your goals.

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  72. @Tracy
    I've wondered a lot about how people who aren't part of the drug scene go about becoming a part of it. You can't go knocking on doors, ya know? "Pardon me, but may I borrow a cuppa sugar? And, by the way, you know where I can score some heroin?" Or how do people arrange to hire hit men? Do they go to scruffy bars and ask around or --- ? Where's that secret door to the demimonde? LOL

    True story: Around 1997 or so, I bought a CB radio to show my then 6 year old son. On powering up and scanning channels, I quickly started listening to, very clearly, what appeared to be a drug trade. Of course, they were speaking in a kind of coded language. I did not encourage my son to play with that after that! This was in north San Diego county.

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  73. Read More
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  74. @Abelard Lindsey
    The question I have that no one here seems to be asking is why so many people have "bad backs" to begin with. Maybe I'm clueless, but it seems to me that people are taking pain killers because they are experiencing actual pain that they are treating (self-medicating). What is causing this pain? Perhaps we need an effective treatment for that so that people no longer have to take pain killers.

    “The question I have that no one here seems to be asking is why so many people have “bad backs” to begin with.”

    I think for a lot of guys who work in construction and trades it is a real organic condition, caused by the work they do, and that work is hard on the body.

    A lot of it might be to our modern sedentary way of life. Too many people sit for too long and too many people are overweight.

    There is one fellow, who now has a large following, Dr. John Sarno, who maintains that back pain is largely mental, and the result of stress. He pointed out that, prior to the 1970s, stomach ulcers were one of the chief health complaints of middle-class men with moderately-to-very responsible jobs. It was a common trope – Jack Lemmon as Felix Unger in The Odd Couple, for example. By the 1980s, nobody claimed to have ulcers anymore – they had back pain. I am not entirely sold on the idea, but I must admit, after I heard about it, and it was in the back of my mind, I have experienced less back pain myself.

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    • Replies: @Jim Don Bob
    Back pain is impossible to medically disprove; hence the choice of SSDI wannabes. WV has something like IIRC 6% of its population on SSDI.

    Forever.
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  75. http://www.economist.com/news/international/21697817-financial-crisis-hit-birth-rates-fell-rich-countries-expected

    Reading between the lines, it elliptically implies that the arrival of high numbers of immigrants could have tipped a balance and be lowering the indigenous birthrate so much that, despite high immigrant fertility, the influx of immigrants is causing the an unexpected recent drastic reduction of total births in countries like Germany.

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  76. Read More
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  77. @anon
    >I’ve wondered a lot about how people who aren’t part of the drug scene go about becoming a part of it.

    -Become a non-stranger at a somewhat sleazy bar. Ask bartender for a hookup or hear through grapevine what regulars are into stuff or "know someone".

    -Even easier: strip clubs.

    -Befriend some street prostitute and invite her and her peers into your home.

    -Club scenes.


    I don't think the middle-aged, lifelong straight-laced person deciding "hey, i want to get into drugs" happens that often though, statistically.

    More realistic situation would be the addict/weekend warrior who happens to be out-of-town or their preferred dealer got arrested.

    “I’ve wondered a lot about how people who aren’t part of the drug scene go about becoming a part of it
    -Befriend some street prostitute and invite her and her peers into your home.”

    In Mayflower Madam, Sydney Biddle Barrows noted that men who hired escorts from her agency often asked them for help in finding drugs, mainly cocaine, figuring that as the girls already were engaged in illegal activities they’d have knowledge of the drug scene.

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  78. @Abelard Lindsey
    The question I have that no one here seems to be asking is why so many people have "bad backs" to begin with. Maybe I'm clueless, but it seems to me that people are taking pain killers because they are experiencing actual pain that they are treating (self-medicating). What is causing this pain? Perhaps we need an effective treatment for that so that people no longer have to take pain killers.

    “The question I have that no one here seems to be asking is why so many people have “bad backs” to begin with. Maybe I’m clueless, but it seems to me that people are taking pain killers because they are experiencing actual pain that they are treating (self-medicating). What is causing this pain? ”

    People have figured out that claiming to have back pain is a fairly easy way to get Social Security Disability. It’s very difficult to prove that a person claiming to have back pain doesn’t have it.

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  79. When did the obesity epedemic take off?

    The first time I visited the USA was in the late ’70s – Washington state & Oregon. The next time was Dayton, OH in the early ’90s, and I was amazed at the sheer numbers of obese people.

    That might be a west coast v mid-west difference, rather than a ’70s v ’90s thing.

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    • Replies: @neon2
    I grew up in California until removing myself to Europe in 1979. If anyone had asked me then whether Americans were fat, much less grossly overweight, I would have replied with a puzzled look and an emphatic "Of course not!"
    Now I look embarrassed and reply - "Certainly, and just one more sign of our approaching and well deserved demise as a nation of historical importance - except perhaps as an object lesson in how quickly naive self-indulgence leads to civilisational collapse."
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  80. @Curious Odus
    Interesting question. I wonder if the AIDS hysteria served to depress the birthrate in the 1980s and 90s. Kids too young to remember the start of the epidemic would have internalised the subsequent propaganda about it being a predominantly heterosexual disease.

    “I wonder if the AIDS hysteria served to depress the birthrate in the 1980s and 90s.”

    As far back as the 70s the “overpopulation” narrative was being pushed. The entire planet was going to die if we didn’t slow down. And thanks to the pill we could. The responsible people anyway. Later they learned that they would need to make room for those who hadn’t slowed down, due to the fact that they were no longer reproducing fast enough. It’s a very fine line to walk, apparently.

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  81. @Curious Odus
    Interesting question. I wonder if the AIDS hysteria served to depress the birthrate in the 1980s and 90s. Kids too young to remember the start of the epidemic would have internalised the subsequent propaganda about it being a predominantly heterosexual disease.

    Ironically, I actually knew I was probably not going to get AIDS…but could get child-ordered child support payments. I’d make some joke about that being worse, but AIDS was a death sentence in the 80s.

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  82. @syonredux

    You know, when I saw the Google Doodle, I thought, ‘wow, they finally decided to let a white guy have the spot’?
     
    Pretty amazing coming from the ultra-PC GOOGLE. I suppose that his massive importance to information theory overrode ideology.

    In any case, I'm glad to see it happen. Shannon is one of those people who should be better known.

    Yeah, I think their nerd overcame their SJW there.

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  83. According to Martin Van Creveld:

    Go to any hospital, and you are almost certain to find a women’s ward responsible for treating such diseases as breast cancer, cancer of the cervix, and so on. But the same hospital is almost equally certain not to have a department specializing in men’s diseases. Perhaps because society expects men “to take it,” as the saying goes, men also visit psychologists and psychiatrists far less often than women do. From the time of Charcot and Freud on, but for female patients most practitioners in these fields would have had to close shop. And who pays for it all? Men, of course, by means of their taxes and social security contributions.

    Thus a virtuous cycle (for women) and a vicious one (for men) is created. The more money is spent to treat women, the more they outlive men. The more they outlive men, the more treatment they need. For example, as of 2000 in the US out of every three dollars spent on health two were spent to treat women. In the same country three out of every four dollars spent on medical research were accounted for by women’s diseases. Four times as much is spent on finding a cure for breast cancer as on doing the same for prostate cancer. Yet whereas one in eight women will get breast cancer during her life, a man’s chances of contracting prostate cancer are actually somewhat higher (one in six). If that is not discrimination, I’d dearly like to know what is.

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  84. @alaska3636
    On the topic of outliers:

    Donald Fagen is a man of a certain age whose creative output exceeds in volume and quality what he did as a young man with Steely Dan.

    Here's his very funky 2014 album, Kamakiriad:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wr5v4sSRm0s

    Another oldie but goodie is Jeff Lynne who continues to put out his brand of tight, self-produced smooth rock under the ELO label. Here is an album of covers he did in 2012:
    Long Wave
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=USdyRXZNSts

    Everyone knows Paul McCartney was a freak; but, he is still compellingly charming musically. He just did an album of jazz songs called Kisses on the Bottom. Here's his take on I'm Gonna Sit Right Down and Write Myself a Letter:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R_Z8_HBJcnM

    Sadly, people forgot that music has a definite structure and flow that takes actual work and talent to understand and manipulate. Prince, Bowie and Frey could all understand these ideas.

    Factual correction kamakiriad is Over 2 decades old 1993 but is pretty great. Fagin tours with Steely Dan a lot more than putting out new music these days

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  85. Steve, have you gotten a cease and desist letter from the WSJ, yet? I believe the WSJ has a copyright on “lucky duckies” and it doesn’t mean what you do. A WSJ lucky ducky is someone so fortunate as to make too little to be taxed.

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  86. @WGG
    Your reasoning is simplistic and flawed. The worst case scenario of polio may be death, but that is also the worst case scenario for the vaccine. You must compare the probability of harm under both circumstances, taking the vaccine or not taking it. That requires a blind study using a control group, a protocol which is almost never used for vaccines.

    Besides, you know you have to consume infected feces to contract polio, right? What are your weekends like?

    Yes, exactly. FDR got polio because he like to eat poo for breakfast. None of us could ever get it because no Mexican lettuce picker has ever taken a dump in a lettuce field, ever.

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    • Replies: @SPMoore8
    I'm willing to listen to a long lecture on this, because, after all, what is the Internet for, but FDR was vacationing in Nova Scotia at the time he was stricken, and I think it's quite possible he encountered some raw sewage there, either by swimming (IIRC, polio had an association with bathing in the summertime) or simply from a leaky septic tank.

    The converse theory I have heard many times -- including George Carlin, no less -- is that polio is assisted by people who "lived too clean" and therefore didn't have the immune system to fight off polio.

    Suffice to say I'm glad it's under control, I'm old enough to have known some polio victims; not iron lung types but severe problems using their legs types.
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  87. @tsotha
    The other possibility is this cohort just happened to be at the right age to have painful medical problems when the opioid prescription pendulum was in the "prescribe more" position. Seems like it goes back and forth between "I can't get enough medication to control my pain" and "duuuuuuuude" in about a 20 year cycle. Heroin is around now like it hasn't been since the '70s - you don't need friends from fifty years ago to hook you up.

    The other piece of the puzzle is this generation is unmoored from the social institutions that used to help people deal with the onset of old age. A divorced atheist sitting at home on disability is going to have a lot more trouble coping than his fairly religious, still-married dad who meets up with the American Legion buddies to complain about aches and pains and the fact that his junk doesn't work any more.

    “duuuuuuuude”
    +1 LOL What a perfect description of watching the pendulum creep up to its max and slowly reverse direction.

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  88. @Wilkey
    The first bump (1890-1935) surely is due in part to World Wars 1 & 2, as well as the Spanish Flu, no?

    The deep trough in the early '70s is interesting. I was born in '76. That was the era where drugs weren't quite so cool (perhaps "Just Say No" was more effective than lefties give Nancy credit for) and when sex was honest to God deadly, with AIDS deaths peaking ca. 1987-1993. I pretty much assume that every other male celebrity who died during that time frame died from AIDS. AIDs definitely contributed at least a little to the spike in the '50s.

    People born in the early to mid-70s were flooded with propaganda discouraging us from drugs and unsafe sex, as well as the fitness boom. We had seat belts, airbags, anti-lock brakes, and never had to go to war.

    Social media seems to be weakening the effect of old school anti-drug propaganda, though. People seem to take a rather casual attitude towards drug and alcohol abuse these days, and are quite happy to brag about it on Facebook and elsewhere. The legalization of pot in several states is one consequence of that.

    AIDs definitely contributed at least a little to the spike in the ’50s.
    Tell me more, particularly about the definitely.

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    • Replies: @Wilkey
    The growth in mortality rates of men born in the '50s was due in part to AIDS. They were in their peak sexual years when the virus was spreading in the 70s. What more would you like to know?
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  89. I wonder if participation sports leagues would help with this, by giving people a sense of community and a reason to be physically active. Americans love sports and love betting: maybe there’s a way to combine it and maybe make the whole thing profitable.

    Even playing miniature golf is better for you than just sitting on your couch.

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    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    The local bowling alley on Ventura Blvd. is still doing lots of business, but the miniature golf course and giant slide that were right next to it when I was kid are gone.
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  90. @anon
    Everyone who knows what happened in rust-belt towns after the jobs went knows what caused the massive spike in white suicide rates.

    It's why the media covered it up.

    If this mortality spike had happened to any other ethnic group the anti-white media (only 2% Jewish) would be reporting it 24/7.

    #

    All these posts about the suicide spike and nearly all the comments are a joke - still as long as the real and obvious reason for the suicide spike gets Trump elected it doesn't matter.

    So like, what happened?

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  91. @Jack D
    Yes, exactly. FDR got polio because he like to eat poo for breakfast. None of us could ever get it because no Mexican lettuce picker has ever taken a dump in a lettuce field, ever.

    I’m willing to listen to a long lecture on this, because, after all, what is the Internet for, but FDR was vacationing in Nova Scotia at the time he was stricken, and I think it’s quite possible he encountered some raw sewage there, either by swimming (IIRC, polio had an association with bathing in the summertime) or simply from a leaky septic tank.

    The converse theory I have heard many times — including George Carlin, no less — is that polio is assisted by people who “lived too clean” and therefore didn’t have the immune system to fight off polio.

    Suffice to say I’m glad it’s under control, I’m old enough to have known some polio victims; not iron lung types but severe problems using their legs types.

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    • Replies: @SPMoore8
    More on famous polio survivors: a large number including Alan Alda, Donald Sutherland, Judy Collins, and Joni Mitchell. The Sixties: blame it on polio.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_poliomyelitis_survivors

    Also it looks like FDR maybe did _not_ have polio, so he is declared innocent of coprophagia:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franklin_D._Roosevelt%27s_paralytic_illness
    , @Jack D
    WGG indicated that he had nothing to worry about because his lifestyle didn't include intentionally eating feces, but it seems that you might be exposed to sewage by accident - while swimming, eating contaminated food in a restaurant, etc.

    This is a common delusion - I have nothing to fear from Dread Disease X because only people who are morally inferior can catch it.
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  92. @SPMoore8
    I'm willing to listen to a long lecture on this, because, after all, what is the Internet for, but FDR was vacationing in Nova Scotia at the time he was stricken, and I think it's quite possible he encountered some raw sewage there, either by swimming (IIRC, polio had an association with bathing in the summertime) or simply from a leaky septic tank.

    The converse theory I have heard many times -- including George Carlin, no less -- is that polio is assisted by people who "lived too clean" and therefore didn't have the immune system to fight off polio.

    Suffice to say I'm glad it's under control, I'm old enough to have known some polio victims; not iron lung types but severe problems using their legs types.

    More on famous polio survivors: a large number including Alan Alda, Donald Sutherland, Judy Collins, and Joni Mitchell. The Sixties: blame it on polio.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_poliomyelitis_survivors

    Also it looks like FDR maybe did _not_ have polio, so he is declared innocent of coprophagia:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franklin_D._Roosevelt%27s_paralytic_illness

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  93. Priss Factor [AKA "Polly Perkins"] says:

    http://www.vocativ.com/

    Just look at the headlines.

    My todd… sheesh.

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  94. Priss Factor [AKA "Polly Perkins"] says:

    Free speech should be like abortion rights.

    Women should be free to choose to kill their own kid.
    We should be free to choose to kill PC.

    Women control their pooters.
    Ok.

    People control their mouths.

    Government has no right over our mouths and what comes out of it.
    If we use our mouths to kill PC, it’s our right.

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    • Replies: @SFG
    Hate speech laws still haven't caught on over here, though the left is starting to think about it. It's not the government that keeps you from being politically incorrect, it's the Twitter mob and your employer.
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  95. @athEist
    AIDs definitely contributed at least a little to the spike in the ’50s.
    Tell me more, particularly about the definitely.

    The growth in mortality rates of men born in the ’50s was due in part to AIDS. They were in their peak sexual years when the virus was spreading in the 70s. What more would you like to know?

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    • Replies: @Eric Novak
    No AIDS in the '70s, and heterosexual men have never been affected by AIDS in large numbers.
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  96. @SPMoore8
    I'm willing to listen to a long lecture on this, because, after all, what is the Internet for, but FDR was vacationing in Nova Scotia at the time he was stricken, and I think it's quite possible he encountered some raw sewage there, either by swimming (IIRC, polio had an association with bathing in the summertime) or simply from a leaky septic tank.

    The converse theory I have heard many times -- including George Carlin, no less -- is that polio is assisted by people who "lived too clean" and therefore didn't have the immune system to fight off polio.

    Suffice to say I'm glad it's under control, I'm old enough to have known some polio victims; not iron lung types but severe problems using their legs types.

    WGG indicated that he had nothing to worry about because his lifestyle didn’t include intentionally eating feces, but it seems that you might be exposed to sewage by accident – while swimming, eating contaminated food in a restaurant, etc.

    This is a common delusion – I have nothing to fear from Dread Disease X because only people who are morally inferior can catch it.

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    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    When I had cancer, several people asked my wife, "So, Steve smokes, right?" When she said, "No," the nonsmokers would look worried and the smokers happy.
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  97. @Jack D
    WGG indicated that he had nothing to worry about because his lifestyle didn't include intentionally eating feces, but it seems that you might be exposed to sewage by accident - while swimming, eating contaminated food in a restaurant, etc.

    This is a common delusion - I have nothing to fear from Dread Disease X because only people who are morally inferior can catch it.

    When I had cancer, several people asked my wife, “So, Steve smokes, right?” When she said, “No,” the nonsmokers would look worried and the smokers happy.

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    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Smoking is associated with increased risk of several types of cancer other than lung cancer, but lymphomas are pretty far down that list. Cancer isn't really one entity. There are lots of different types with varying prognoses that respond to different therapeutic regimens.
    , @Grandpa Jack
    People often don't have a good understanding about these things, in part because we're so innundated with the message of smoking= cancer, so they don't tend to think of cancer as occurring in 30yr olds who lead healthy lives, or think its very odd that there are 95 yr olds who smoked 2 packs a day since they were 16. They're out there, just like there are some women over 6'6" tall. They're just not very common. But that doesn't mean it should give smokers relief or make those who are living healthy consider giving it up. Smoking and drinking too, for that matter, basically just multiply your chances of cancer (and doing a lot of both greatly increases your chances).

    If I go for walks alone in the ghetto at 2am each night, its true that I might never get mugged, but I certainly increase my chances of it happening compared to sticking to safer walking habits. Why take the risk?

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  98. @Dave Pinsen
    I wonder if participation sports leagues would help with this, by giving people a sense of community and a reason to be physically active. Americans love sports and love betting: maybe there's a way to combine it and maybe make the whole thing profitable.

    Even playing miniature golf is better for you than just sitting on your couch.

    The local bowling alley on Ventura Blvd. is still doing lots of business, but the miniature golf course and giant slide that were right next to it when I was kid are gone.

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    • Replies: @Sam Haysom
    This is my experience too. The only mini golf places that make it seem to be the ones that integrate mini golf into an entertainment package of sorts. I'd love to know why it failed. mini golf is quick and fun and social/ group oriented you'd think it would have survived.

    I think what helped bowling survive is that they started serving cocktails and made it into something you could group date during, but that might just be Houston.
    , @vinny
    Bowling alleys are basically beer sellers with a side business in pins. Harder to pull that off for mini golf when the golfers are wandering all over the property.

    Not long ago, I moved to a state where beer is only sold in liquor stores. I've been shocked at how terrible the grocery stores are here versus staters where groceries can make profit on booze.
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  99. @Steve Sailer
    When I had cancer, several people asked my wife, "So, Steve smokes, right?" When she said, "No," the nonsmokers would look worried and the smokers happy.

    Smoking is associated with increased risk of several types of cancer other than lung cancer, but lymphomas are pretty far down that list. Cancer isn’t really one entity. There are lots of different types with varying prognoses that respond to different therapeutic regimens.

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  100. My gut feeling is that this is more complex, that this is not drugs, or at least it’s not drugs as the single primary culprit; for example, why the massive spike in the previous generation? They’d be 50s+ when the 60s drugs hit. Its likely a number of factors going on at the social level. For example, what about the effects that hopelessness over watching the world descend into leftist madness with the white man as the assigned culprit would have on white men’s psyche? Likely it would up the per capita suicide rate. What about society suddenly giving up religion en masse? That should cause a lot of uprooting of social anchors. These things may hit certain generations differently than others based on what was going on at the time.

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    • Agree: Travis
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  101. @Steve Sailer
    The local bowling alley on Ventura Blvd. is still doing lots of business, but the miniature golf course and giant slide that were right next to it when I was kid are gone.

    This is my experience too. The only mini golf places that make it seem to be the ones that integrate mini golf into an entertainment package of sorts. I’d love to know why it failed. mini golf is quick and fun and social/ group oriented you’d think it would have survived.

    I think what helped bowling survive is that they started serving cocktails and made it into something you could group date during, but that might just be Houston.

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    • Replies: @johnnygeo
    I don't golf but I found Top Golf to be pretty enjoyable as long as my employer is paying. A lot like bowling but more expensive.
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  102. OT: Hillary slurs Native Americans, references Vince Foster:

    “The former secretary of state and Democratic frontrunner told CNN’s Jake Tapper that she’s had experience dealing with men who’ve gone “off the reservation.”

    http://finance.yahoo.com/news/hillary-clinton-donald-trump-ive-213928632.html#cover-a825b4daa9200ea04fb83f9bee003ee1

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  103. @robinea
    Tranquilizers, like Valium and Xanax potentiate the fatal respiratory depressive effects of opioid pain medication. With some prescription opioids, like methadone, the therapeutic window is very narrow before a dose of the drug wanders into the toxic range. There is significant individual susceptibility. No one should be surprised at how freely incompetent 'providers' would double prescribe opioids and tranquillizers unaware that the patient was already on dangerous medications. Often fatal overdoses are signed off as 'fatal polypharmacy' when the level of any individual drug is not in the toxic range. This category accounts for an important cause in the recent increase of premature deaths among Americans.
    Many drug deaths have been directly due to irresponsible or incompetent prescribing. Prescription opiates have been the gateway drugs for heroin addiction. No one is ever held accountable except the victim.

    I’ve done Xanax in a party setting a handful of times. I found it to be a downer version of ecstasy — it put this wonderful hedonistic sheen on things but wasn’t also going to keep you up all night.

    I decided in the end it was waaaaayy too rich for my blood. I couldn’t believe doctors gave out the stuff.

    It might surprise/amuse some members of this community that love of pharmaceuticals (esp Xanax & Promethazine) comprises approximately 15% of current rap lyrics.

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  104. @Steve Sailer
    When I had cancer, several people asked my wife, "So, Steve smokes, right?" When she said, "No," the nonsmokers would look worried and the smokers happy.

    People often don’t have a good understanding about these things, in part because we’re so innundated with the message of smoking= cancer, so they don’t tend to think of cancer as occurring in 30yr olds who lead healthy lives, or think its very odd that there are 95 yr olds who smoked 2 packs a day since they were 16. They’re out there, just like there are some women over 6’6″ tall. They’re just not very common. But that doesn’t mean it should give smokers relief or make those who are living healthy consider giving it up. Smoking and drinking too, for that matter, basically just multiply your chances of cancer (and doing a lot of both greatly increases your chances).

    If I go for walks alone in the ghetto at 2am each night, its true that I might never get mugged, but I certainly increase my chances of it happening compared to sticking to safer walking habits. Why take the risk?

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  105. vinny says:
    @Steve Sailer
    The local bowling alley on Ventura Blvd. is still doing lots of business, but the miniature golf course and giant slide that were right next to it when I was kid are gone.

    Bowling alleys are basically beer sellers with a side business in pins. Harder to pull that off for mini golf when the golfers are wandering all over the property.

    Not long ago, I moved to a state where beer is only sold in liquor stores. I’ve been shocked at how terrible the grocery stores are here versus staters where groceries can make profit on booze.

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  106. @Priss Factor
    Free speech should be like abortion rights.

    Women should be free to choose to kill their own kid.
    We should be free to choose to kill PC.

    Women control their pooters.
    Ok.

    People control their mouths.

    Government has no right over our mouths and what comes out of it.
    If we use our mouths to kill PC, it's our right.

    Hate speech laws still haven’t caught on over here, though the left is starting to think about it. It’s not the government that keeps you from being politically incorrect, it’s the Twitter mob and your employer.

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  107. Sam F says:
    @WGG
    You are assuming that something in the behavior of the younger boomers is currently different than the older boomers. That is a big assumption. If they indeed used drugs significantly more frequently in youth, that alone could have health effects years later, even if they cleaned up in their 20th or 30s. Studies show that former drug users are more overweight than people who never used.

    Another theory is environmental exposure. The people now in their late fifties were the first generation to receive the tainted polio vaccine in the 1950s. We have no way of knowing what the long term effects of virus SV-40 are. The oral vaccine that proceeded the SV-40 vaccines can also cause polio itself, and would be considered exposure. What about a correlation between looser late 1960s morals and oral herpes virus? Any of these pathogens may cause higher rates of cancer and autoimmune diseases later in life. Certainly there is something odd in the fact that I personally know so many people with autoimmune diseases.

    What you say sounds really interesting. On the other hand, my father was born in ’59. He said that in our semi-rural area, there was a really strange divide that almost perfectly separated people born a couple years before himself from his own cohort. He said that a lot of drugs just seemed to have vanished from use, and that the whole Endless Summer culture seemed to vanish overnight (he said he was very happy to have not been born a little earlier). The only exception to this experience, he said, was one guy his age who left high school for the summer before junior year in a perfectly normal state and returned completely goofy (to this day, this guy wanders the town in a strange stupor). Anecdotal, I know- but bizarre.

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  108. @Mr. Anon
    "The question I have that no one here seems to be asking is why so many people have “bad backs” to begin with."

    I think for a lot of guys who work in construction and trades it is a real organic condition, caused by the work they do, and that work is hard on the body.

    A lot of it might be to our modern sedentary way of life. Too many people sit for too long and too many people are overweight.

    There is one fellow, who now has a large following, Dr. John Sarno, who maintains that back pain is largely mental, and the result of stress. He pointed out that, prior to the 1970s, stomach ulcers were one of the chief health complaints of middle-class men with moderately-to-very responsible jobs. It was a common trope - Jack Lemmon as Felix Unger in The Odd Couple, for example. By the 1980s, nobody claimed to have ulcers anymore - they had back pain. I am not entirely sold on the idea, but I must admit, after I heard about it, and it was in the back of my mind, I have experienced less back pain myself.

    Back pain is impossible to medically disprove; hence the choice of SSDI wannabes. WV has something like IIRC 6% of its population on SSDI.

    Forever.

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  109. @Jack D

    We have no way of knowing what the long term effects of virus SV-40 are.
     
    We have know way of knowing what the long term effects of Corn Flakes are.

    We have know way of knowing what the long term effects of soap are.

    We have know way of knowing what the long term effects of tofu are.

    Etc.


    But we do know what the short term effects of the polio virus are - paralysis, life in an iron lung, death. I'll take my chances on the vaccine.

    LOL @ misspelling “no” three times

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  110. Alice says:
    @Mr. Anon
    Opiates (laudanum and paregoric) and stimulants like cocaine could be purchased without prescription at your corner drugstore up through 1914. The nation did not fall apart - quite the contrary. However, at that time, we didn't have a population so steeped in nihilism as today, or a social welfare system that subsidized their addictions, so what you say is probably right.

    In the teens, our nation was falling apart. That’s why the temperance movement began–because so many men were drugged and drunk until they were useless, leaving their wives and kids destitute. It was horrible and degenerate. It had to change.

    But we had no welfare system then, so it wasn’t possible to maintain the useless behavior while kids were fed by Uncle Sam.

    It’s worth asking as well what was the racial makeup of the ones who were the losers. The Irish had a taste for such things, assuredly. So did others.

    Look at which ethnic groups we have now who’d be most susceptible, and look at welfare now.

    To paraphrase: drug legalization, immigration, or welfare, pick 2. But we are really down to one. You can’t have drug legalization and welfare. You can’t have legalization and immigration either.

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    • Replies: @njguy73
    The temperance movement started in the 1820s and hit its peak in the 1830s, a period of heavy drinking. Then came the Civil War and its aftermath, and people got tired of movements. It lay dormant until the 1880s, another period of heavy drinking, when it was revived.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temperance_movement
    , @Mr. Anon
    "In the teens, our nation was falling apart. That’s why the temperance movement began–because so many men were drugged and drunk until they were useless, leaving their wives and kids destitute. It was horrible and degenerate. It had to change."

    I don't believe that for the simple reason that it is not true. The nation was hardly falling apart in 1914. That is a ridiculous claim. And the temperance movement started long before that; the American Temperance Union was founded in 1833. The baptists had always been trying to ban the Demon Rum. In any event, they got their wish in 1920. Did it make the country better?

    I am not particular concerned with the effect that the war on drugs has had on addicts, but with the effect it has had on everyone else. It has been used as an excuse to chip away at our civil liberties.
    , @SPMoore8
    It's true that there was a lot of drug and alcohol abuse in the late 19th and early 20th centuries. There was also a lot of suicides. The whole idea of progressivism back then was to create a cleaner and healthier society. This meant not only things like public health issues (reorganizing all the cemeteries, water treatment (to avoid water born diseases, you know, like polio), but also getting people to stop killing themselves and drinking and drugging themselves to death.

    So why were people doing these things to themselves? Part of it was because of big migrations to the cities and the emergence of a working class. So instead of addressing that plight, they addressed the symptoms instead. And one of the symptoms of having a boring meaningless life is to self medicate with drugs. And one of the symptoms of being unable to support your wife and children is not only to self medicate but to kill yourself.

    Nowadays, we don't even have much of a working class, it seems. Just a huge service class stretching from professionals down to the guy who sells you coffee in the morning. The people who are actually making most of the stuff we spend money on are mostly overseas, and the people who are actually producing the food and raw materials that supports our imports of merchandise is probably a small percentage, and even they are always hiring illegal aliens to do the dirty work.

    But a lot of people are not cut out for service class work, because, depending on how you feel about it, it can be demeaning, humiliating, and hivelike. So much for American Individualism.

    No wonder people want to get high. A lot of people feel superfluous, and, frankly, they are. This is the society we created. I'd like to see what candidate Trump intends to do about that.
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  111. NickG says:
    @Abelard Lindsey
    The question I have that no one here seems to be asking is why so many people have "bad backs" to begin with. Maybe I'm clueless, but it seems to me that people are taking pain killers because they are experiencing actual pain that they are treating (self-medicating). What is causing this pain? Perhaps we need an effective treatment for that so that people no longer have to take pain killers.

    Here’s his very funky 2014 album, Kamakiriad

    You’re adrift 21 years! Kamakiriad was released in 1993.

    I knew this instantly, having moved from the UK to Johannesburg that year where the cassette got worn out driving around in the VW Golf GTI without aircon that I’d ha shipped out from the UK.

    Tomorrow’s Girls – Groovy video

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  112. @Wilkey
    The first bump (1890-1935) surely is due in part to World Wars 1 & 2, as well as the Spanish Flu, no?

    The deep trough in the early '70s is interesting. I was born in '76. That was the era where drugs weren't quite so cool (perhaps "Just Say No" was more effective than lefties give Nancy credit for) and when sex was honest to God deadly, with AIDS deaths peaking ca. 1987-1993. I pretty much assume that every other male celebrity who died during that time frame died from AIDS. AIDs definitely contributed at least a little to the spike in the '50s.

    People born in the early to mid-70s were flooded with propaganda discouraging us from drugs and unsafe sex, as well as the fitness boom. We had seat belts, airbags, anti-lock brakes, and never had to go to war.

    Social media seems to be weakening the effect of old school anti-drug propaganda, though. People seem to take a rather casual attitude towards drug and alcohol abuse these days, and are quite happy to brag about it on Facebook and elsewhere. The legalization of pot in several states is one consequence of that.

    As my username indicates, I’m from the generation that was taught to Just Say No. When I was 13, hit songs weren’t about spending the night together. They weren’t about getting drunk and screwing, either. They were about not having to take your clothes off to have a good time.

    Mick Jagger and Jimmy Buffet both made it to 70. Jermaine Stewart? AIDS took him before he hit 40.

    Last year, a 1994-born singer going by the name Halsey had a hit with a song with this chorus:

    “We are the new Americana
    High on legal marijuana
    Raised on Biggie and Nirvana
    We are the new Americana”

    She’ll probably make it to 120.

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    • Replies: @Dave Pinsen
    That same song has a verse about gay marriage:

    Young James Dean, some say he looks just like his father,
    But he could never love somebody's daughter.
    Football team loved more than just the game
    So he vowed to be his husband at the altar.

     

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  113. @Alice
    In the teens, our nation was falling apart. That's why the temperance movement began--because so many men were drugged and drunk until they were useless, leaving their wives and kids destitute. It was horrible and degenerate. It had to change.

    But we had no welfare system then, so it wasn't possible to maintain the useless behavior while kids were fed by Uncle Sam.

    It's worth asking as well what was the racial makeup of the ones who were the losers. The Irish had a taste for such things, assuredly. So did others.

    Look at which ethnic groups we have now who'd be most susceptible, and look at welfare now.

    To paraphrase: drug legalization, immigration, or welfare, pick 2. But we are really down to one. You can't have drug legalization and welfare. You can't have legalization and immigration either.

    The temperance movement started in the 1820s and hit its peak in the 1830s, a period of heavy drinking. Then came the Civil War and its aftermath, and people got tired of movements. It lay dormant until the 1880s, another period of heavy drinking, when it was revived.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temperance_movement

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    • Replies: @WGG
    I heard not too long ago that the temperance movement around the turn of the 20th century was basically a "screw you, go back to Ireland" movement.
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  114. @WGG
    You are assuming that something in the behavior of the younger boomers is currently different than the older boomers. That is a big assumption. If they indeed used drugs significantly more frequently in youth, that alone could have health effects years later, even if they cleaned up in their 20th or 30s. Studies show that former drug users are more overweight than people who never used.

    Another theory is environmental exposure. The people now in their late fifties were the first generation to receive the tainted polio vaccine in the 1950s. We have no way of knowing what the long term effects of virus SV-40 are. The oral vaccine that proceeded the SV-40 vaccines can also cause polio itself, and would be considered exposure. What about a correlation between looser late 1960s morals and oral herpes virus? Any of these pathogens may cause higher rates of cancer and autoimmune diseases later in life. Certainly there is something odd in the fact that I personally know so many people with autoimmune diseases.

    “You are assuming that something in the behavior of the younger boomers is currently different than the older boomers.”

    There is something different. There are lots of things different.

    Let’s call those born from 1946 to 1954 the Woodstock wave, and those born from 1955 to 1964 the Disco Wave.

    The Disco wave is on record as having worse behavior the Woodstock wave across the board. Lower SAT scores, higher drug use, crime rates, and more.

    There is hard data to back this up. I can cite sources.

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    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    My vague impression is that the year the Sixties went from elite hobby to mass lifestyle was 1973, when the 1955-born cohort turned 18. Maybe it was just momentum, but if there was one event that motivated it, it might have been Roe v. Wade on 1/22/73.
    , @WGG
    Right. Their SAT scores, drug use, crime, promiscuity were decades ago. My point was that while Steve was talking about different behaviors in 2016, I am saying any number of factors could just be catching up to them 30, 40 or 50 years later. Hence the comment about oral herpes.

    Even if we could pin the cause of the death increase on current behavior such as prescription drug taking, everyone is still assuming malfeasance. How do we know they are not taking prescription drugs at a higher rate because they are actually sicker? Maybe these prescriptions are valid treatments. As I said, I know way too many people with chronic autoimmune illnesses.
    , @Brutusale
    Let's not forget the impact of governmental policy changes that occurred in the mid-60s. White population percentage in the US had its biggest decrease in the country's history between 1970 and 1980, and it has accelerated from there. I would argue that it had more of an impact than the Boomer cohorts.

    Ozzie and Harriet's America was gone for good.
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  115. @njguy73
    "You are assuming that something in the behavior of the younger boomers is currently different than the older boomers."

    There is something different. There are lots of things different.

    Let's call those born from 1946 to 1954 the Woodstock wave, and those born from 1955 to 1964 the Disco Wave.

    The Disco wave is on record as having worse behavior the Woodstock wave across the board. Lower SAT scores, higher drug use, crime rates, and more.

    There is hard data to back this up. I can cite sources.

    My vague impression is that the year the Sixties went from elite hobby to mass lifestyle was 1973, when the 1955-born cohort turned 18. Maybe it was just momentum, but if there was one event that motivated it, it might have been Roe v. Wade on 1/22/73.

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    • Replies: @Mr. Anon
    "My vague impression is that the year the Sixties went from elite hobby to mass lifestyle was 1973, when the 1955-born cohort turned 18."

    That sounds about right. The Midnight Special premiered as a regular series in early 1973.
    , @SPMoore8
    Depends on what you mean by the "60's" (60s, as my editor keeps reminding me). The high tide of hippiedom (in the Bay Area, at least) was the summer of '67 but it petered out after that. It's hard to say when, but such things as Manson, Altamont, Kent State, death of Hendrix, People's Park, and other things are traditionally pointed to. Certainly done by election year 1972.

    On the other hand, I have known a number of people who wasted most of the '70's doing the commune thing, not only in Nor Cal but also on the East Coast. Steely Dan was their prophet.

    Disco got going in about 1973, yes, but I wouldn't call that '60's. That was just polyester self indulgence. And yes, despite the hating on Boomers I see a lot of these days, a lot them traded in their kaftans and fondue pots for mortgage payments and Pampers. A lot of them. One reason a lot of Boomers adore Forrest Gump is that it captures the generational split in just that one generation.
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  116. WGG says:
    @njguy73
    "You are assuming that something in the behavior of the younger boomers is currently different than the older boomers."

    There is something different. There are lots of things different.

    Let's call those born from 1946 to 1954 the Woodstock wave, and those born from 1955 to 1964 the Disco Wave.

    The Disco wave is on record as having worse behavior the Woodstock wave across the board. Lower SAT scores, higher drug use, crime rates, and more.

    There is hard data to back this up. I can cite sources.

    Right. Their SAT scores, drug use, crime, promiscuity were decades ago. My point was that while Steve was talking about different behaviors in 2016, I am saying any number of factors could just be catching up to them 30, 40 or 50 years later. Hence the comment about oral herpes.

    Even if we could pin the cause of the death increase on current behavior such as prescription drug taking, everyone is still assuming malfeasance. How do we know they are not taking prescription drugs at a higher rate because they are actually sicker? Maybe these prescriptions are valid treatments. As I said, I know way too many people with chronic autoimmune illnesses.

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  117. @njguy73
    The temperance movement started in the 1820s and hit its peak in the 1830s, a period of heavy drinking. Then came the Civil War and its aftermath, and people got tired of movements. It lay dormant until the 1880s, another period of heavy drinking, when it was revived.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temperance_movement

    I heard not too long ago that the temperance movement around the turn of the 20th century was basically a “screw you, go back to Ireland” movement.

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    • Replies: @njguy73
    You're partially right. There was anti-Irish sentiment, but mostly in the mid-19th century when the Irish started coming to America in large numbers and anti-Catholicism rose, culminating in the rise of the Know-Nothing party. Ironically, Ireland had a temperance movement of its own.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_temperance_movement
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  118. @Mr. Anon
    Opiates (laudanum and paregoric) and stimulants like cocaine could be purchased without prescription at your corner drugstore up through 1914. The nation did not fall apart - quite the contrary. However, at that time, we didn't have a population so steeped in nihilism as today, or a social welfare system that subsidized their addictions, so what you say is probably right.

    Right. In 1914, you worked or you didn’t eat.

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  119. @WGG
    I heard not too long ago that the temperance movement around the turn of the 20th century was basically a "screw you, go back to Ireland" movement.

    You’re partially right. There was anti-Irish sentiment, but mostly in the mid-19th century when the Irish started coming to America in large numbers and anti-Catholicism rose, culminating in the rise of the Know-Nothing party. Ironically, Ireland had a temperance movement of its own.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_temperance_movement

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  120. @WGG
    Allergies, maybe. I don't buy the autoimmune part of that hypothesis for a moment. Our bodies in their natural state are simply not that dysfunctional. Oh, you managed to stay healthy? I will now self destruct your entire digestive tract!

    I had a professor in college who had been in bio research for many years. He swore that all this whatever-doesn't-kill-you-makes-you-stronger approach to medicine was total b.s. The less exposure to virus, fungi, bacteria (and obv. protozoa) the healthier you will be. Besides, our globally mixed world probably has our bodies much more exposed to disease than our isolated ancestors in some mountaintop village. In fact the most isolated communities are the healthiest; Amish, Okinawa, etc.

    Speaking of human disease and fungi, all of the development of the South cannot be good. Valley Fever and who knows what else are swirling around every dusty new planned community.

    What about toxoplasmosis? Looking at the Internet and itts stupid cat pics/videos one would think cat ownership has gotten much more popular since our grandparents were young. Apparently Zika is a global emergency because it may or may not cause microcephaly, yet we KNOW toxoplasmosis does. But everyone keeps on with their gross pet habits. They estimate that half of cat owners are infected with the disease.

    OK so I am kind of a germaphobe.

    Our grandparents internet had a lot fewer cat pics, it’s true… ;)

    I agree that there may be some risk of Toxoplasmosis by having cats around, but you forget hat in previous generations, nearly every farm or fishing town (not to mention the cities) were crawling with cats. House cats. Barn cats, dump cats, cats in the fishing stages down by the wharf, cats on the ships, etc. It was the only way to keep away the rats. People just didn’t spend much time taking pictures of them.

    It isn’t that new.

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    • Replies: @Jack D
    Anywhere but in their houses. Growing up on a farm, we had a bunch of cats that lived on the property - probably more than the average cat lady has, but they never came in the house.

    Cats are OK for mice but a rat and a cat are are fair fight and you don't want to be in a fair fight with a rat. Dogs are much better for rats - they make short work of them.
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  121. @njguy73
    As my username indicates, I'm from the generation that was taught to Just Say No. When I was 13, hit songs weren't about spending the night together. They weren't about getting drunk and screwing, either. They were about not having to take your clothes off to have a good time.

    Mick Jagger and Jimmy Buffet both made it to 70. Jermaine Stewart? AIDS took him before he hit 40.

    Last year, a 1994-born singer going by the name Halsey had a hit with a song with this chorus:

    "We are the new Americana
    High on legal marijuana
    Raised on Biggie and Nirvana
    We are the new Americana"

    She'll probably make it to 120.

    That same song has a verse about gay marriage:

    Young James Dean, some say he looks just like his father,
    But he could never love somebody’s daughter.
    Football team loved more than just the game
    So he vowed to be his husband at the altar.

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  122. @Alice
    In the teens, our nation was falling apart. That's why the temperance movement began--because so many men were drugged and drunk until they were useless, leaving their wives and kids destitute. It was horrible and degenerate. It had to change.

    But we had no welfare system then, so it wasn't possible to maintain the useless behavior while kids were fed by Uncle Sam.

    It's worth asking as well what was the racial makeup of the ones who were the losers. The Irish had a taste for such things, assuredly. So did others.

    Look at which ethnic groups we have now who'd be most susceptible, and look at welfare now.

    To paraphrase: drug legalization, immigration, or welfare, pick 2. But we are really down to one. You can't have drug legalization and welfare. You can't have legalization and immigration either.

    “In the teens, our nation was falling apart. That’s why the temperance movement began–because so many men were drugged and drunk until they were useless, leaving their wives and kids destitute. It was horrible and degenerate. It had to change.”

    I don’t believe that for the simple reason that it is not true. The nation was hardly falling apart in 1914. That is a ridiculous claim. And the temperance movement started long before that; the American Temperance Union was founded in 1833. The baptists had always been trying to ban the Demon Rum. In any event, they got their wish in 1920. Did it make the country better?

    I am not particular concerned with the effect that the war on drugs has had on addicts, but with the effect it has had on everyone else. It has been used as an excuse to chip away at our civil liberties.

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  123. @Steve Sailer
    My vague impression is that the year the Sixties went from elite hobby to mass lifestyle was 1973, when the 1955-born cohort turned 18. Maybe it was just momentum, but if there was one event that motivated it, it might have been Roe v. Wade on 1/22/73.

    “My vague impression is that the year the Sixties went from elite hobby to mass lifestyle was 1973, when the 1955-born cohort turned 18.”

    That sounds about right. The Midnight Special premiered as a regular series in early 1973.

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  124. neon2 says:
    @jimmyriddle
    When did the obesity epedemic take off?

    The first time I visited the USA was in the late '70s - Washington state & Oregon. The next time was Dayton, OH in the early '90s, and I was amazed at the sheer numbers of obese people.

    That might be a west coast v mid-west difference, rather than a '70s v '90s thing.

    I grew up in California until removing myself to Europe in 1979. If anyone had asked me then whether Americans were fat, much less grossly overweight, I would have replied with a puzzled look and an emphatic “Of course not!”
    Now I look embarrassed and reply – “Certainly, and just one more sign of our approaching and well deserved demise as a nation of historical importance – except perhaps as an object lesson in how quickly naive self-indulgence leads to civilisational collapse.”

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    • Replies: @anon
    Sugar began to be added to processed food in place of fat in the 1970s.

    People can't process that amount of sugar.
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  125. @Steve Sailer
    My vague impression is that the year the Sixties went from elite hobby to mass lifestyle was 1973, when the 1955-born cohort turned 18. Maybe it was just momentum, but if there was one event that motivated it, it might have been Roe v. Wade on 1/22/73.

    Depends on what you mean by the “60′s” (60s, as my editor keeps reminding me). The high tide of hippiedom (in the Bay Area, at least) was the summer of ’67 but it petered out after that. It’s hard to say when, but such things as Manson, Altamont, Kent State, death of Hendrix, People’s Park, and other things are traditionally pointed to. Certainly done by election year 1972.

    On the other hand, I have known a number of people who wasted most of the ’70′s doing the commune thing, not only in Nor Cal but also on the East Coast. Steely Dan was their prophet.

    Disco got going in about 1973, yes, but I wouldn’t call that ’60′s. That was just polyester self indulgence. And yes, despite the hating on Boomers I see a lot of these days, a lot them traded in their kaftans and fondue pots for mortgage payments and Pampers. A lot of them. One reason a lot of Boomers adore Forrest Gump is that it captures the generational split in just that one generation.

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    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    "The high tide of hippiedom (in the Bay Area, at least) was the summer of ’67 but it petered out after that."

    But Haight-Ashbury got so much publicity in 1967 because it was way out ahead of most of America.
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  126. Demographers and social scientists call this cohort of late Boomers Generation Jones. So many of them appeared to us Gen X’ers as drugged out degenerates, though those same X’ers adopted modified versions of their druggy deviance.

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  127. @Wilkey
    The first bump (1890-1935) surely is due in part to World Wars 1 & 2, as well as the Spanish Flu, no?

    The deep trough in the early '70s is interesting. I was born in '76. That was the era where drugs weren't quite so cool (perhaps "Just Say No" was more effective than lefties give Nancy credit for) and when sex was honest to God deadly, with AIDS deaths peaking ca. 1987-1993. I pretty much assume that every other male celebrity who died during that time frame died from AIDS. AIDs definitely contributed at least a little to the spike in the '50s.

    People born in the early to mid-70s were flooded with propaganda discouraging us from drugs and unsafe sex, as well as the fitness boom. We had seat belts, airbags, anti-lock brakes, and never had to go to war.

    Social media seems to be weakening the effect of old school anti-drug propaganda, though. People seem to take a rather casual attitude towards drug and alcohol abuse these days, and are quite happy to brag about it on Facebook and elsewhere. The legalization of pot in several states is one consequence of that.

    Use of pot and psychedelics was at an all-time peak in ’76. In fact, if those old enough to have lived through the ’70s were to pick a year to epitomize the post-’60s epidemic of recreational drug use, it would be ’76. Jeff Spicolli was just learning how to make a bong out of PVC fittings in sixth grade that year, as it were.

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  128. @SPMoore8
    Depends on what you mean by the "60's" (60s, as my editor keeps reminding me). The high tide of hippiedom (in the Bay Area, at least) was the summer of '67 but it petered out after that. It's hard to say when, but such things as Manson, Altamont, Kent State, death of Hendrix, People's Park, and other things are traditionally pointed to. Certainly done by election year 1972.

    On the other hand, I have known a number of people who wasted most of the '70's doing the commune thing, not only in Nor Cal but also on the East Coast. Steely Dan was their prophet.

    Disco got going in about 1973, yes, but I wouldn't call that '60's. That was just polyester self indulgence. And yes, despite the hating on Boomers I see a lot of these days, a lot them traded in their kaftans and fondue pots for mortgage payments and Pampers. A lot of them. One reason a lot of Boomers adore Forrest Gump is that it captures the generational split in just that one generation.

    “The high tide of hippiedom (in the Bay Area, at least) was the summer of ’67 but it petered out after that.”

    But Haight-Ashbury got so much publicity in 1967 because it was way out ahead of most of America.

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    • Agree: SPMoore8
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  129. @SFG
    I was born in the late 70s. I was terrified of drugs and sex. I didn't pick up any addictions, but didn't get laid until way too late. (Of course, the same personality that's going to heed all the warnings is actually going to lack any game because women are attracted to confident risk-takers, so who knows.)

    The pot thing may be overdone.

    My experience too.

    It’s only now, later in life, that I realise just how affected I was by the messages.

    It may be something to do with my INTP personality.

    And yes despite my best efforts I (still) have zero game.

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  130. @Wilkey
    The growth in mortality rates of men born in the '50s was due in part to AIDS. They were in their peak sexual years when the virus was spreading in the 70s. What more would you like to know?

    No AIDS in the ’70s, and heterosexual men have never been affected by AIDS in large numbers.

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    • Replies: @Anonymous
    He said spreading, not manifesting. And no one said heterosexual non-addicts were significantly affected.
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  131. @Eric Novak
    No AIDS in the '70s, and heterosexual men have never been affected by AIDS in large numbers.

    He said spreading, not manifesting. And no one said heterosexual non-addicts were significantly affected.

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  132. @Alice
    In the teens, our nation was falling apart. That's why the temperance movement began--because so many men were drugged and drunk until they were useless, leaving their wives and kids destitute. It was horrible and degenerate. It had to change.

    But we had no welfare system then, so it wasn't possible to maintain the useless behavior while kids were fed by Uncle Sam.

    It's worth asking as well what was the racial makeup of the ones who were the losers. The Irish had a taste for such things, assuredly. So did others.

    Look at which ethnic groups we have now who'd be most susceptible, and look at welfare now.

    To paraphrase: drug legalization, immigration, or welfare, pick 2. But we are really down to one. You can't have drug legalization and welfare. You can't have legalization and immigration either.

    It’s true that there was a lot of drug and alcohol abuse in the late 19th and early 20th centuries. There was also a lot of suicides. The whole idea of progressivism back then was to create a cleaner and healthier society. This meant not only things like public health issues (reorganizing all the cemeteries, water treatment (to avoid water born diseases, you know, like polio), but also getting people to stop killing themselves and drinking and drugging themselves to death.

    So why were people doing these things to themselves? Part of it was because of big migrations to the cities and the emergence of a working class. So instead of addressing that plight, they addressed the symptoms instead. And one of the symptoms of having a boring meaningless life is to self medicate with drugs. And one of the symptoms of being unable to support your wife and children is not only to self medicate but to kill yourself.

    Nowadays, we don’t even have much of a working class, it seems. Just a huge service class stretching from professionals down to the guy who sells you coffee in the morning. The people who are actually making most of the stuff we spend money on are mostly overseas, and the people who are actually producing the food and raw materials that supports our imports of merchandise is probably a small percentage, and even they are always hiring illegal aliens to do the dirty work.

    But a lot of people are not cut out for service class work, because, depending on how you feel about it, it can be demeaning, humiliating, and hivelike. So much for American Individualism.

    No wonder people want to get high. A lot of people feel superfluous, and, frankly, they are. This is the society we created. I’d like to see what candidate Trump intends to do about that.

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  133. @Monopthalmus
    Our grandparents internet had a lot fewer cat pics, it's true... ;)

    I agree that there may be some risk of Toxoplasmosis by having cats around, but you forget hat in previous generations, nearly every farm or fishing town (not to mention the cities) were crawling with cats. House cats. Barn cats, dump cats, cats in the fishing stages down by the wharf, cats on the ships, etc. It was the only way to keep away the rats. People just didn't spend much time taking pictures of them.

    It isn't that new.

    Anywhere but in their houses. Growing up on a farm, we had a bunch of cats that lived on the property – probably more than the average cat lady has, but they never came in the house.

    Cats are OK for mice but a rat and a cat are are fair fight and you don’t want to be in a fair fight with a rat. Dogs are much better for rats – they make short work of them.

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    • Replies: @SPMoore8
    I think humans have been living intimately with dogs and cats for many thousands of years, and I think attempting to link this to disease is ludicrous.

    Certainly, in my family, such intimacy has been common for at least 100 years. One of my grandmothers also grew up on a subsistence farm in the CA mountains, they had cats, and they were in the house enough. My grandmother hated them because she had asthma as a child and one of the cats would climb up onto her chest when she was asleep and purr with her nose up by her mouth (this is apparently common cat behavior.) Anyway, my grandmother thought the cat was hurting her breathing (maybe so), but there's also a tradition that links that behavior with cats as demonic killers. The point is that there wouldn't be such legends about cats if the behavior wasn't common.

    Another point includes the propensity of old ladies to have cats (I know why: bed warmers) and even old men (compare Lon Chaney's movie, "Shadows" where he plays a Chinese laundryman who sleeps with his cat.) Again it's a fair conclusion that people have been sleeping with cats for a long time. Same with dogs: let's not forget "Three Dog Night."

    Some people just aren't cut out for having small mammals crawling all over them night and day. Let's leave it at that.
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  134. @Sam Haysom
    This is my experience too. The only mini golf places that make it seem to be the ones that integrate mini golf into an entertainment package of sorts. I'd love to know why it failed. mini golf is quick and fun and social/ group oriented you'd think it would have survived.

    I think what helped bowling survive is that they started serving cocktails and made it into something you could group date during, but that might just be Houston.

    I don’t golf but I found Top Golf to be pretty enjoyable as long as my employer is paying. A lot like bowling but more expensive.

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  135. @Jack D
    Anywhere but in their houses. Growing up on a farm, we had a bunch of cats that lived on the property - probably more than the average cat lady has, but they never came in the house.

    Cats are OK for mice but a rat and a cat are are fair fight and you don't want to be in a fair fight with a rat. Dogs are much better for rats - they make short work of them.

    I think humans have been living intimately with dogs and cats for many thousands of years, and I think attempting to link this to disease is ludicrous.

    Certainly, in my family, such intimacy has been common for at least 100 years. One of my grandmothers also grew up on a subsistence farm in the CA mountains, they had cats, and they were in the house enough. My grandmother hated them because she had asthma as a child and one of the cats would climb up onto her chest when she was asleep and purr with her nose up by her mouth (this is apparently common cat behavior.) Anyway, my grandmother thought the cat was hurting her breathing (maybe so), but there’s also a tradition that links that behavior with cats as demonic killers. The point is that there wouldn’t be such legends about cats if the behavior wasn’t common.

    Another point includes the propensity of old ladies to have cats (I know why: bed warmers) and even old men (compare Lon Chaney’s movie, “Shadows” where he plays a Chinese laundryman who sleeps with his cat.) Again it’s a fair conclusion that people have been sleeping with cats for a long time. Same with dogs: let’s not forget “Three Dog Night.”

    Some people just aren’t cut out for having small mammals crawling all over them night and day. Let’s leave it at that.

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    • Replies: @Old Palo Altan
    Cats and old ladies:

    My grandmother lived with her eldest daughter at the end of her life. There was a cat around to, which slept on my grandmother's bed.
    In the end, Gramma went into hospital. As the days past, the cat became increasingly agitated until one afternoon it cried out,ran up onto the bed, stretched out flat, and died.
    Within a minute, the call from the hospital came that my grandmother had just breathed her last.
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  136. @SFG
    You know, when I saw the Google Doodle, I thought, 'wow, they finally decided to let a white guy have the spot'?

    I would imagine that it was only because it was a milestone 100th birthday.

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  137. @robinea
    Tranquilizers, like Valium and Xanax potentiate the fatal respiratory depressive effects of opioid pain medication. With some prescription opioids, like methadone, the therapeutic window is very narrow before a dose of the drug wanders into the toxic range. There is significant individual susceptibility. No one should be surprised at how freely incompetent 'providers' would double prescribe opioids and tranquillizers unaware that the patient was already on dangerous medications. Often fatal overdoses are signed off as 'fatal polypharmacy' when the level of any individual drug is not in the toxic range. This category accounts for an important cause in the recent increase of premature deaths among Americans.
    Many drug deaths have been directly due to irresponsible or incompetent prescribing. Prescription opiates have been the gateway drugs for heroin addiction. No one is ever held accountable except the victim.

    Polypharmacy has been the death of so many in the entertainment field. Kevin Dubrow, late lead singer for the band Quiet Riot, died at 52 of a cocaine overdose. His brother Terry, an MD, said it was Kevin’s dabbling in different drugs that killed him; a speedball’s effect on a 52-year old is much more pronounced than on a 25-year old.

    I find myself thinking that it was the case in Prince’s death.

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  138. @njguy73
    "You are assuming that something in the behavior of the younger boomers is currently different than the older boomers."

    There is something different. There are lots of things different.

    Let's call those born from 1946 to 1954 the Woodstock wave, and those born from 1955 to 1964 the Disco Wave.

    The Disco wave is on record as having worse behavior the Woodstock wave across the board. Lower SAT scores, higher drug use, crime rates, and more.

    There is hard data to back this up. I can cite sources.

    Let’s not forget the impact of governmental policy changes that occurred in the mid-60s. White population percentage in the US had its biggest decrease in the country’s history between 1970 and 1980, and it has accelerated from there. I would argue that it had more of an impact than the Boomer cohorts.

    Ozzie and Harriet’s America was gone for good.

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    • Replies: @njguy73
    Here's a website done a long time ago. It's based on the Strauss-Howe generational theory and focuses on the 1958-1968 "Babybuster" group.

    Click on the link titled "Buster Facts."

    http://www.babybusters.org/contents.htm

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  139. @SPMoore8
    I think humans have been living intimately with dogs and cats for many thousands of years, and I think attempting to link this to disease is ludicrous.

    Certainly, in my family, such intimacy has been common for at least 100 years. One of my grandmothers also grew up on a subsistence farm in the CA mountains, they had cats, and they were in the house enough. My grandmother hated them because she had asthma as a child and one of the cats would climb up onto her chest when she was asleep and purr with her nose up by her mouth (this is apparently common cat behavior.) Anyway, my grandmother thought the cat was hurting her breathing (maybe so), but there's also a tradition that links that behavior with cats as demonic killers. The point is that there wouldn't be such legends about cats if the behavior wasn't common.

    Another point includes the propensity of old ladies to have cats (I know why: bed warmers) and even old men (compare Lon Chaney's movie, "Shadows" where he plays a Chinese laundryman who sleeps with his cat.) Again it's a fair conclusion that people have been sleeping with cats for a long time. Same with dogs: let's not forget "Three Dog Night."

    Some people just aren't cut out for having small mammals crawling all over them night and day. Let's leave it at that.

    Cats and old ladies:

    My grandmother lived with her eldest daughter at the end of her life. There was a cat around to, which slept on my grandmother’s bed.
    In the end, Gramma went into hospital. As the days past, the cat became increasingly agitated until one afternoon it cried out,ran up onto the bed, stretched out flat, and died.
    Within a minute, the call from the hospital came that my grandmother had just breathed her last.

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    • Agree: SPMoore8
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  140. @neon2
    I grew up in California until removing myself to Europe in 1979. If anyone had asked me then whether Americans were fat, much less grossly overweight, I would have replied with a puzzled look and an emphatic "Of course not!"
    Now I look embarrassed and reply - "Certainly, and just one more sign of our approaching and well deserved demise as a nation of historical importance - except perhaps as an object lesson in how quickly naive self-indulgence leads to civilisational collapse."

    Sugar began to be added to processed food in place of fat in the 1970s.

    People can’t process that amount of sugar.

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  141. @Brutusale
    Let's not forget the impact of governmental policy changes that occurred in the mid-60s. White population percentage in the US had its biggest decrease in the country's history between 1970 and 1980, and it has accelerated from there. I would argue that it had more of an impact than the Boomer cohorts.

    Ozzie and Harriet's America was gone for good.

    Here’s a website done a long time ago. It’s based on the Strauss-Howe generational theory and focuses on the 1958-1968 “Babybuster” group.

    Click on the link titled “Buster Facts.”

    http://www.babybusters.org/contents.htm

    Read More
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