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Commenter Anonymous notes:

What started all the hubbub was when KKK guerrilla maniacs blew up Ellis Island earlier this month. Well, actually not the whole island, specifically they tried to wrench down the Statue of Liberty. Well, not destroying it per se but entering the lobby & vandalizing the original draft of the Constitution in the pedestal. OK, it was a plaque of a poem, not a priceless manuscript, and technically no one tried to damage it. But the rioters were trying to get the plaque removed. OK, they didn’t riot, but they were very angrily protesting and compromising the Wretched Refuse Safe Space. OK, so it wasn’t anyone actually in New York at the island, it was a guy taking questions in the White House press room, who announced official condemnation of the plaque. All right, he didn’t say the plaque was good or bad, just that it was added to the statue later. And the remark about it being added was in response to a question about something else, not really about the plaque itself. And the guy was Jewish. BUT THAT’S NOT THE POINT

 
66 Comments to "The War of the Words"
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  1. Bubba says:

    This could be a real transcript of a Dan Rather report.

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  2. bb says:

    To Blazes with all that Northern hullabaloo!!

    Now what’s this I hear about that Trump whippin’ slaves?!!

    Read More
  3. OT: All the colliding of Navy ships and crashing of military helicopters going on has one wondering, which of the following is the reason?

    1) Coincidence

    2) General decline (like everything else and for the same reasons known to readers here)

    3) Voodoo from all the bad mojo in our currency and statues

    4) Serious shenanigans of a technical sort being pulled by someone who wants to send a message or interfere…

    Number 4 is the interesting one.

    The latest collision happened (appropriately?) to the Navy ship John McCain.

    Read More
    • Replies: @AnotherDad
    Of these four i'd plump for:

    2) General decline (like everything else and for the same reasons known to readers here)
     
    Perhaps too much office time/training-time spent on PC bullshit and not enough focus on absolute responsibility for ship and crew.

    But remember when you have a big organization that's actually doing stuff ... stuff goes wrong.

    The Navy did stupid stuff in the "before time" too. Like for instance Halsey and ... John McCain sailing directly into a big ass typhoon.
    , @Alden
    Could it be affirmative action in action?
    , @wiseguy
    I prefer ships that don't get wrecked.
    , @Lurker
    I believe that helicopters are inherently less safe when compared to fixed wing aircraft. Not that they are more likely to go wrong but the results are often catastrophic/fatal when they do*. The recent helicopter crash thus being an unfortunate coincidence. Or fortunate depending upon political bias.

    *For example - I was present at an airshow in 1977 where a Bell Jetranger took off into the path of a De Havilland Tiger Moth biplane at little more than tree top height. The helicopter crashed straight to the ground killing all aboard and was a total write-off. Although the biplane (G-ANDE) had it's undercarriage sheared off, it glided to a safe landing and was still flying years later after incidents and repairs. And apparently is being restored after yet another accident in 2007.

    , @fish

    2) General decline (like everything else and for the same reasons known to readers here)
     
    I'm guessing #2.

    The purpose of the military isn't to actually fight wars any longer. Their role is to provide garrison troops in 3rd world shitholes and make sure that any soldier who wants one gets a spiffy new vagina!
  4. Dan Hayes says:

    Buzz Mohawk:

    The McCain in question is named after the senator’s father. The apple never falls far from the tree holds once again since both were and are reprobates.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Buzz Mohawk

    The McCain in question is named after the senator’s father. The apple never falls far from the tree holds once again since both were and are reprobates.
     
    Yes. In fact the ship is named after both the grandfather and father of our counterfeit war hero.

    I don't know about the grandfather, but trouble seems to be a McCain family specialty -- thus the appropriateness of the collision.
  5. Hubbub says:

    I remember those same events in exactly – well, almost exactly – the very same way as Commenter Anonymous. Comm Anon (as I like to call him) is really quite perceptive if he’s given time to think his thoughts through. Such certainty.

    Read More
  6. @Buzz Mohawk
    OT: All the colliding of Navy ships and crashing of military helicopters going on has one wondering, which of the following is the reason?

    1) Coincidence

    2) General decline (like everything else and for the same reasons known to readers here)

    3) Voodoo from all the bad mojo in our currency and statues

    4) Serious shenanigans of a technical sort being pulled by someone who wants to send a message or interfere...

    Number 4 is the interesting one.

    The latest collision happened (appropriately?) to the Navy ship John McCain.

    Of these four i’d plump for:

    2) General decline (like everything else and for the same reasons known to readers here)

    Perhaps too much office time/training-time spent on PC bullshit and not enough focus on absolute responsibility for ship and crew.

    But remember when you have a big organization that’s actually doing stuff … stuff goes wrong.

    The Navy did stupid stuff in the “before time” too. Like for instance Halsey and … John McCain sailing directly into a big ass typhoon.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Samuel Skinner
    The USS Missouri once got stuck on a sandbank for 2 weeks in 1950.
    , @flyover hick

    The Navy did stupid stuff in the “before time” too. Like for instance Halsey and … John McCain sailing directly into a big ass typhoon.
     
    Twice.
    Halsey sailed into a typhoon twice.
  7. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer

    Bannon is on the warpath! First volley fired today against Javanka.

    The whole time it was them derailing the Trump revolution. It wasn’t Preibus.

    It’s like a Greek tragedy. Can you imagine the hubris and contempt that is involved when a daughter and her husband conspire to ruin the father’s epic achievement.

    Bannon is the truthteller. It was these two spoiled brats poisoning the well the whole time.

    Bannon has declared war. Great news! Finally someone’s gonna start throwing punches.

    Trump’s nepotism catastrophe will be solved one way or another whether he likes it or not. If Trump has any sense he will send the dastardly duo back to NYC at the end of the year.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Dan Hayes
    Anonymous:

    Trump will never disengage himself from his little girl and her dastardly cohort, both products of the liberal NYC zeitgeist. That will prove to be Trump's ultimate downfall - it seems to be preordained!

    Jared is a real piece of cake following in the illustrious footsteps of a father who blackmailed his own brother-in-law in a compromising situation and sent proof of it to his own sister. Real quality people!
    , @Alden
    Many of the articles written during the primaries claimed that for several years his family urged him to run.
    , @Chrisnonymous
    Poisoning of the well? In the god-emperor's Whitehouse!!?

    What baloney! Steve Bannon got black-pilled! Steve Bannon is just another eeyore brigade! Steve Bannon is the ultimate Private Hudson! Steve Bannon should grow a pair! Butthurt Steve Bannon just needs to be patient!

    That's what I've been saying all along!

    Look muh track record! Muh big track record!
  8. Loose Lips may Sink Ships but they’d better not utter one word against Diversity Training.

    Read More
    • Replies: @TheJester
    The inability of the US military to win wars, design airplanes that work, or safely sail ships is not hard to explain. In a PC world, appearances and delusions trump reality.

    The US officer corps has become an ineffective collection of PC sycophants. Indeed, mastering the military arts today is to learn how to manage the appearance of effectiveness to support feminist, minority, and LGBTxyz social agendas. That's all that matter on an officer's performance report ... does he or does he not support diversity and the other PC campaigns. At some point, their world becomes delusional as they actually start believing that the PC appearances are real. At that point, reality becomes nothing more than a hate fact threatening The Narrative. Unfortunately for them, reality has a tendency to bite back when least expected.

    None of this is new. History is replete with examples of politicized military organizations that devolved into Potempkin Villages just as readily as the rest of society with similar negative consequences.

    "Nothing seems to work anymore ... and we don't know why!"

  9. @Dan Hayes
    Buzz Mohawk:

    The McCain in question is named after the senator's father. The apple never falls far from the tree holds once again since both were and are reprobates.

    The McCain in question is named after the senator’s father. The apple never falls far from the tree holds once again since both were and are reprobates.

    Yes. In fact the ship is named after both the grandfather and father of our counterfeit war hero.

    I don’t know about the grandfather, but trouble seems to be a McCain family specialty — thus the appropriateness of the collision.

    Read More
    • Replies: @for-the-record
    I don’t know about the grandfather, but trouble seems to be a McCain family specialty — thus the appropriateness of the collision.

    It was probably just a coincidence (although there are differing views on that), but I'm sure most recall that McCain the son was literally at the center of the worst US carrier fire since WWII, in July 1967 on the USS Forrestal in which 134 were killed and 161 injured.
  10. BenKenobi says:

    I’m just a drunk former Canadian infantry corporal.

    I would answer the summons were the President to issue it.

    How many more almost, but not quite like me are there?

    Millions, I would wager.

    Read More
  11. Dan Hayes says:
    @Anonymous
    Bannon is on the warpath! First volley fired today against Javanka.

    The whole time it was them derailing the Trump revolution. It wasn't Preibus.

    It's like a Greek tragedy. Can you imagine the hubris and contempt that is involved when a daughter and her husband conspire to ruin the father's epic achievement.

    Bannon is the truthteller. It was these two spoiled brats poisoning the well the whole time.

    Bannon has declared war. Great news! Finally someone's gonna start throwing punches.

    Trump's nepotism catastrophe will be solved one way or another whether he likes it or not. If Trump has any sense he will send the dastardly duo back to NYC at the end of the year.

    Anonymous:

    Trump will never disengage himself from his little girl and her dastardly cohort, both products of the liberal NYC zeitgeist. That will prove to be Trump’s ultimate downfall – it seems to be preordained!

    Jared is a real piece of cake following in the illustrious footsteps of a father who blackmailed his own brother-in-law in a compromising situation and sent proof of it to his own sister. Real quality people!

    Read More
    • Replies: @YetAnotherAnon
    It does sound like Greek tragedy, and I can't see Trump cutting off his daughter. But if he wants her ever to be President one day, he has to be the campaign-trail Trump in actions as well as words. For his own sake as well as hers.

    America is becoming so debased I could see an ex-President Trump (whether outvoted or impeached) being investigated/prosecuted/bankrupted in the style of a former third-world dictator by a vengeful replacement administration. The stakes for him personally are getting higher, as well as for the US.

    If he lets down his voters he's sunk, and his fall will be great.

    Talking of debased nations, here's the UK Director of Public Prosecutions, Alison Saunders.

    "People all over the world are questioning how those in positions of power can counter the kinds of extreme views that are increasingly being aired, and how societies might do more to prevent such opinions from gestating in the first place... the Crown Prosecution Service (CPS) today commits to treat online hate crimes as seriously as those committed face to face.

    Some may criticise the new approach and guidance for prosecutors as heavy-handed. But we must remember the common thread that links online purveyors of hate with those who commit physical hate crimes. That is, the desire to undermine and instil fear in those they target, both individually and collectively. The definition of hate crime, recognised by the CPS and police, is “any criminal offence which is perceived by the victim or any other person, to be motivated by a hostility or prejudice” towards the personal characteristics mentioned above."
     
    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/aug/20/hate-crimes-online-abusers-prosecutors-serious-crackdown-internet-face-to-face

    The Guardian reports

    "Saunders says the crackdown is needed because online abuse can lead to the sort of extremist hate seen in Charlottesville in the United States last weekend, which left one person dead. Writing in the Guardian, Saunders said: “Left unchallenged, even low-level offending can subsequently fuel the kind of dangerous hostility that has been plastered across our media in recent days. That is why countering it is a priority for the CPS. “Whether shouted in their face on the street, daubed on their wall or tweeted into their living room, the impact of hateful abuse on a victim can be equally devastating.” Saunders hopes the new plans will see more prosecutions, with longer sentences for those convicted if a jury or judge can be convinced the crime was motivated by hate. The new policy documents cover different strands of hate crime: racist and religious; disability; and homophobic, biphobic and transphobic."

    If the most senior law officer in the UK sincerely believes the MSM take on Charlottesville things are pretty bad.
    , @Chrisnonymous

    Real quality people!
     
    Trump should have gone on the attack over Pedophile Island* when he had some base support. If his base starts to crumble, he's going to have a lot of 'splaining to do about his partying in NYC with sex offenders*. Never mind the truth of the matter--will he have defenders at, say, Breitbart and Fox?

    We will see if his Persuasion powers can weather fucking over his base.

    *literally and specifically, but also metaphorically for other things in his life
    , @Anonymous
    Nassim Taleb (once Trump supporter and defender) posted on Twitter yesterday:

    Donald Trump's @realDonaldTrump irreversible mistake: betrayal.

    You can recover from many mistakes. Betrayal you can only do once.
     
  12. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer

    It’s the Chinese micro components in the myriad weapons systems.

    The Chinese are not our ally. They never have been. A tiny cabal of businessman have sold us out completely. Wake the hell up.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Lagertha
    My father predicted that American defense industry (commercial aerospace), buying cheaper or low-quality components from the Chinese (he kinda' lumped Korea, Taiwan, Singapore....all those countries together in a rant I remember), would eventually yield catastrophic consequences. Cheap components were anathema to him, and, the idea that saving money is used to justify putting cheap, foreign-made parts into planes, ships, subs, was a capital crime for him. He knew instantly that the Challenger had faulty, crummy O rings.
    , @Alfa158
    I worked in the commercial sector of electronics so I don't know what military electronics is getting sourced in China or other overseas locations that they might get their thumb into.
    I know that most US corporations are reluctant to spend the multi-billions of dollars that are required to build modern integrated circuit foundries. It is a much surer bet to spend 50 billion dollars on a merger, then fire enough redundant employees to recoup a nice guaranteed 6-10% a year on your investment. Making stuff is expensive, risky and low profit. Supposedly Apple is making at least 75% of all the world-wide profits being made on smart phones. You have seen most television set brands disappear because everyone loses money making them.
    Most of the foundries producing the actual integrated chips inside the package are in Asia now, including China. The chips that are still even being designed in the US have their mask, netlists, Gerber and other design files sent to overseas foundries for production.
    Depending on how far up the design chain the data is delivered, it is possible for a foundry in China to simply add malicious micro-circuitry to the original design and ship the resulting product back to the US. The circuitry in these products is now sub-microscopic in scale and immensely complex. If the pirate circuitry is designed to not be scanned and tested by the production test, there is no way of knowing it is there without going over the whole die, which may contain of millions of circuit elements with an electron microscope.
    Some people have speculated that the US drone brought down in one of the 'stans and delivered intact to the Chinese, was not shot down or had an engine failure. The Chinese activated a back-door installed in the control circuit, took over remote control, and flew it in for a landing. Probably didn't happen that way but not impossible either.
  13. TheJester says:
    @Kyle McKenna
    Loose Lips may Sink Ships but they'd better not utter one word against Diversity Training.

    The inability of the US military to win wars, design airplanes that work, or safely sail ships is not hard to explain. In a PC world, appearances and delusions trump reality.

    The US officer corps has become an ineffective collection of PC sycophants. Indeed, mastering the military arts today is to learn how to manage the appearance of effectiveness to support feminist, minority, and LGBTxyz social agendas. That’s all that matter on an officer’s performance report … does he or does he not support diversity and the other PC campaigns. At some point, their world becomes delusional as they actually start believing that the PC appearances are real. At that point, reality becomes nothing more than a hate fact threatening The Narrative. Unfortunately for them, reality has a tendency to bite back when least expected.

    None of this is new. History is replete with examples of politicized military organizations that devolved into Potempkin Villages just as readily as the rest of society with similar negative consequences.

    “Nothing seems to work anymore … and we don’t know why!”

    Read More
    • Replies: @TomSchmidt
    One recalls Stalin's purging of the military just before WW2 for political reasons. Good thing for him that Zhukov survived.
  14. Alden says:
    @Buzz Mohawk
    OT: All the colliding of Navy ships and crashing of military helicopters going on has one wondering, which of the following is the reason?

    1) Coincidence

    2) General decline (like everything else and for the same reasons known to readers here)

    3) Voodoo from all the bad mojo in our currency and statues

    4) Serious shenanigans of a technical sort being pulled by someone who wants to send a message or interfere...

    Number 4 is the interesting one.

    The latest collision happened (appropriately?) to the Navy ship John McCain.

    Could it be affirmative action in action?

    Read More
  15. @Buzz Mohawk

    The McCain in question is named after the senator’s father. The apple never falls far from the tree holds once again since both were and are reprobates.
     
    Yes. In fact the ship is named after both the grandfather and father of our counterfeit war hero.

    I don't know about the grandfather, but trouble seems to be a McCain family specialty -- thus the appropriateness of the collision.

    I don’t know about the grandfather, but trouble seems to be a McCain family specialty — thus the appropriateness of the collision.

    It was probably just a coincidence (although there are differing views on that), but I’m sure most recall that McCain the son was literally at the center of the worst US carrier fire since WWII, in July 1967 on the USS Forrestal in which 134 were killed and 161 injured.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Alfa158
    Reportedly McCain was a marginal pilot who lost a lot of planes and escaped being grounded only because of his family. The Forrestal fire though was not his fault, except to the extent that he is a magnet for bad things happening. One of the planes behind him had an electrical malfunction while being prepped, and one of it's missiles launched. McCain's plane was the one hit by the missile. He jumped out and escaped while the flight-deck went up in flames and explosions.
    The fire was filmed by the flight deck operations camera and my old Navy veteran friend tells me the film is shown to trainees for carrier duty as an example of selfless heroism in saving a ship. Periodically a bomb in the burning wreckage would detonate, wiping the fire fighting team off the deck. As soon as the smoke cleared the next fire fighting team would rush out and continue fighting until the next explosion blew them away, and so forth until the fire was under control. It was like having a live webcam recording an attack across no-man's land at Verdun into the teeth of machine gun and artillery fire.
    The incident demonstrates yet again the fragility of aircraft carriers and why they are a multi-trillion dollar force that will be used to bomb Afghan horse barbarians, but will never be sent into range of actively hostile Chinese or Russian anti-shipping missiles.
  16. Alden says:
    @Anonymous
    Bannon is on the warpath! First volley fired today against Javanka.

    The whole time it was them derailing the Trump revolution. It wasn't Preibus.

    It's like a Greek tragedy. Can you imagine the hubris and contempt that is involved when a daughter and her husband conspire to ruin the father's epic achievement.

    Bannon is the truthteller. It was these two spoiled brats poisoning the well the whole time.

    Bannon has declared war. Great news! Finally someone's gonna start throwing punches.

    Trump's nepotism catastrophe will be solved one way or another whether he likes it or not. If Trump has any sense he will send the dastardly duo back to NYC at the end of the year.

    Many of the articles written during the primaries claimed that for several years his family urged him to run.

    Read More
  17. @Anonymous
    Bannon is on the warpath! First volley fired today against Javanka.

    The whole time it was them derailing the Trump revolution. It wasn't Preibus.

    It's like a Greek tragedy. Can you imagine the hubris and contempt that is involved when a daughter and her husband conspire to ruin the father's epic achievement.

    Bannon is the truthteller. It was these two spoiled brats poisoning the well the whole time.

    Bannon has declared war. Great news! Finally someone's gonna start throwing punches.

    Trump's nepotism catastrophe will be solved one way or another whether he likes it or not. If Trump has any sense he will send the dastardly duo back to NYC at the end of the year.

    Poisoning of the well? In the god-emperor’s Whitehouse!!?

    What baloney! Steve Bannon got black-pilled! Steve Bannon is just another eeyore brigade! Steve Bannon is the ultimate Private Hudson! Steve Bannon should grow a pair! Butthurt Steve Bannon just needs to be patient!

    That’s what I’ve been saying all along!

    Look muh track record! Muh big track record!

    Read More
    • Replies: @Chrisnonymous
    Oh yeah, I almost forgot...

    Now that Bannon's gone back to Breitbart, what's he doing for the Trump revolution?

    Butthurt eeyore Bannon is just another loser posting things on the Interwebs!!
  18. @Dan Hayes
    Anonymous:

    Trump will never disengage himself from his little girl and her dastardly cohort, both products of the liberal NYC zeitgeist. That will prove to be Trump's ultimate downfall - it seems to be preordained!

    Jared is a real piece of cake following in the illustrious footsteps of a father who blackmailed his own brother-in-law in a compromising situation and sent proof of it to his own sister. Real quality people!

    It does sound like Greek tragedy, and I can’t see Trump cutting off his daughter. But if he wants her ever to be President one day, he has to be the campaign-trail Trump in actions as well as words. For his own sake as well as hers.

    America is becoming so debased I could see an ex-President Trump (whether outvoted or impeached) being investigated/prosecuted/bankrupted in the style of a former third-world dictator by a vengeful replacement administration. The stakes for him personally are getting higher, as well as for the US.

    If he lets down his voters he’s sunk, and his fall will be great.

    Talking of debased nations, here’s the UK Director of Public Prosecutions, Alison Saunders.

    People all over the world are questioning how those in positions of power can counter the kinds of extreme views that are increasingly being aired, and how societies might do more to prevent such opinions from gestating in the first place… the Crown Prosecution Service (CPS) today commits to treat online hate crimes as seriously as those committed face to face.

    Some may criticise the new approach and guidance for prosecutors as heavy-handed. But we must remember the common thread that links online purveyors of hate with those who commit physical hate crimes. That is, the desire to undermine and instil fear in those they target, both individually and collectively. The definition of hate crime, recognised by the CPS and police, is “any criminal offence which is perceived by the victim or any other person, to be motivated by a hostility or prejudice” towards the personal characteristics mentioned above.”

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/aug/20/hate-crimes-online-abusers-prosecutors-serious-crackdown-internet-face-to-face

    The Guardian reports

    “Saunders says the crackdown is needed because online abuse can lead to the sort of extremist hate seen in Charlottesville in the United States last weekend, which left one person dead. Writing in the Guardian, Saunders said: “Left unchallenged, even low-level offending can subsequently fuel the kind of dangerous hostility that has been plastered across our media in recent days. That is why countering it is a priority for the CPS. “Whether shouted in their face on the street, daubed on their wall or tweeted into their living room, the impact of hateful abuse on a victim can be equally devastating.” Saunders hopes the new plans will see more prosecutions, with longer sentences for those convicted if a jury or judge can be convinced the crime was motivated by hate. The new policy documents cover different strands of hate crime: racist and religious; disability; and homophobic, biphobic and transphobic.”

    If the most senior law officer in the UK sincerely believes the MSM take on Charlottesville things are pretty bad.

    Read More
  19. @Chrisnonymous
    Poisoning of the well? In the god-emperor's Whitehouse!!?

    What baloney! Steve Bannon got black-pilled! Steve Bannon is just another eeyore brigade! Steve Bannon is the ultimate Private Hudson! Steve Bannon should grow a pair! Butthurt Steve Bannon just needs to be patient!

    That's what I've been saying all along!

    Look muh track record! Muh big track record!

    Oh yeah, I almost forgot…

    Now that Bannon’s gone back to Breitbart, what’s he doing for the Trump revolution?

    Butthurt eeyore Bannon is just another loser posting things on the Interwebs!!

    Read More
    • Replies: @Chrisnonymous
    Steve, approve my comments, you ninny!!!
    , @Autochthon
    I beg pardon of the other, but I conflate them añways: Jack Hanson and Jack D. I believe are their handles. I presume you are channelling the one I have in mind, with the help of Madame Cleo.

    I will add about the incompetence in the navy and denying reality, a phenomenon I have noticed increasing in frequency and scope as my career has continued in corporate Hell. My job, like Steve's old gig, has always been all about empirical research. More and more, I get dissatisied rejection of my work by the Man because the findings do not match their expectations. I arch an eyebrow and wonder why they don't just say ahead of time what they have decided the facts are, I can write a report to their liking (skipping actual research and analysis) and go home early, all the while making them happier with my work than if I'd actually done any....

    This phenomenon is very salient, ubiquitous, and growing, among corporations, academia, government, media, and the military. It accounts for a LOT of the horrorshows like the naval collissions, failed products, lost political campaigns, etc.

    It turns out that, like democracy and a middle class, empiricism was a brief anamoly in history.
  20. @Dan Hayes
    Anonymous:

    Trump will never disengage himself from his little girl and her dastardly cohort, both products of the liberal NYC zeitgeist. That will prove to be Trump's ultimate downfall - it seems to be preordained!

    Jared is a real piece of cake following in the illustrious footsteps of a father who blackmailed his own brother-in-law in a compromising situation and sent proof of it to his own sister. Real quality people!

    Real quality people!

    Trump should have gone on the attack over Pedophile Island* when he had some base support. If his base starts to crumble, he’s going to have a lot of ‘splaining to do about his partying in NYC with sex offenders*. Never mind the truth of the matter–will he have defenders at, say, Breitbart and Fox?

    We will see if his Persuasion powers can weather fucking over his base.

    *literally and specifically, but also metaphorically for other things in his life

    Read More
  21. @Chrisnonymous
    Oh yeah, I almost forgot...

    Now that Bannon's gone back to Breitbart, what's he doing for the Trump revolution?

    Butthurt eeyore Bannon is just another loser posting things on the Interwebs!!

    Steve, approve my comments, you ninny!!!

    Read More
  22. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @Dan Hayes
    Anonymous:

    Trump will never disengage himself from his little girl and her dastardly cohort, both products of the liberal NYC zeitgeist. That will prove to be Trump's ultimate downfall - it seems to be preordained!

    Jared is a real piece of cake following in the illustrious footsteps of a father who blackmailed his own brother-in-law in a compromising situation and sent proof of it to his own sister. Real quality people!

    Nassim Taleb (once Trump supporter and defender) posted on Twitter yesterday:

    Donald Trump’s @realDonaldTrump irreversible mistake: betrayal.

    You can recover from many mistakes. Betrayal you can only do once.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Corvinus
    Trump has been betraying people the majority of his adult life. Suckers born every minute.
  23. Corvinus says:
    @Anonymous
    Nassim Taleb (once Trump supporter and defender) posted on Twitter yesterday:

    Donald Trump's @realDonaldTrump irreversible mistake: betrayal.

    You can recover from many mistakes. Betrayal you can only do once.
     

    Trump has been betraying people the majority of his adult life. Suckers born every minute.

    Read More
  24. wiseguy says:
    @Buzz Mohawk
    OT: All the colliding of Navy ships and crashing of military helicopters going on has one wondering, which of the following is the reason?

    1) Coincidence

    2) General decline (like everything else and for the same reasons known to readers here)

    3) Voodoo from all the bad mojo in our currency and statues

    4) Serious shenanigans of a technical sort being pulled by someone who wants to send a message or interfere...

    Number 4 is the interesting one.

    The latest collision happened (appropriately?) to the Navy ship John McCain.

    I prefer ships that don’t get wrecked.

    Read More
  25. @Chrisnonymous
    Oh yeah, I almost forgot...

    Now that Bannon's gone back to Breitbart, what's he doing for the Trump revolution?

    Butthurt eeyore Bannon is just another loser posting things on the Interwebs!!

    I beg pardon of the other, but I conflate them añways: Jack Hanson and Jack D. I believe are their handles. I presume you are channelling the one I have in mind, with the help of Madame Cleo.

    I will add about the incompetence in the navy and denying reality, a phenomenon I have noticed increasing in frequency and scope as my career has continued in corporate Hell. My job, like Steve’s old gig, has always been all about empirical research. More and more, I get dissatisied rejection of my work by the Man because the findings do not match their expectations. I arch an eyebrow and wonder why they don’t just say ahead of time what they have decided the facts are, I can write a report to their liking (skipping actual research and analysis) and go home early, all the while making them happier with my work than if I’d actually done any….

    This phenomenon is very salient, ubiquitous, and growing, among corporations, academia, government, media, and the military. It accounts for a LOT of the horrorshows like the naval collissions, failed products, lost political campaigns, etc.

    It turns out that, like democracy and a middle class, empiricism was a brief anamoly in history.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Chrisnonymous

    I beg pardon of the other, but I conflate them añways: Jack Hanson and Jack D. I believe are their handles. I presume you are channelling the one I have in mind, with the help of Madame Cleo.
     
    Yeah. That was so weird. I dreamt that I predicted the election correctly and it made me manic? Man, that was a weird dream...
    , @AndrewR
    Story/stories please?
    , @Desiderius

    This phenomenon is very salient, ubiquitous, and growing, among corporations, academia, government, media, and the military. It accounts for a LOT of the horrorshows like the naval collissions, failed products, lost political campaigns, etc.
     
    Once one stops believing in God, one starts believing in anything.

    It turns out that, like democracy and a middle class, empiricism was a brief anamoly in history.
     
    No, not that brief, and probably not over yet.
  26. @AnotherDad
    Of these four i'd plump for:

    2) General decline (like everything else and for the same reasons known to readers here)
     
    Perhaps too much office time/training-time spent on PC bullshit and not enough focus on absolute responsibility for ship and crew.

    But remember when you have a big organization that's actually doing stuff ... stuff goes wrong.

    The Navy did stupid stuff in the "before time" too. Like for instance Halsey and ... John McCain sailing directly into a big ass typhoon.

    The USS Missouri once got stuck on a sandbank for 2 weeks in 1950.

    Read More
  27. Lagertha says:
    @Anonymous
    It's the Chinese micro components in the myriad weapons systems.

    The Chinese are not our ally. They never have been. A tiny cabal of businessman have sold us out completely. Wake the hell up.

    My father predicted that American defense industry (commercial aerospace), buying cheaper or low-quality components from the Chinese (he kinda’ lumped Korea, Taiwan, Singapore….all those countries together in a rant I remember), would eventually yield catastrophic consequences. Cheap components were anathema to him, and, the idea that saving money is used to justify putting cheap, foreign-made parts into planes, ships, subs, was a capital crime for him. He knew instantly that the Challenger had faulty, crummy O rings.

    Read More
  28. Lurker says:
    @Buzz Mohawk
    OT: All the colliding of Navy ships and crashing of military helicopters going on has one wondering, which of the following is the reason?

    1) Coincidence

    2) General decline (like everything else and for the same reasons known to readers here)

    3) Voodoo from all the bad mojo in our currency and statues

    4) Serious shenanigans of a technical sort being pulled by someone who wants to send a message or interfere...

    Number 4 is the interesting one.

    The latest collision happened (appropriately?) to the Navy ship John McCain.

    I believe that helicopters are inherently less safe when compared to fixed wing aircraft. Not that they are more likely to go wrong but the results are often catastrophic/fatal when they do*. The recent helicopter crash thus being an unfortunate coincidence. Or fortunate depending upon political bias.

    *For example – I was present at an airshow in 1977 where a Bell Jetranger took off into the path of a De Havilland Tiger Moth biplane at little more than tree top height. The helicopter crashed straight to the ground killing all aboard and was a total write-off. Although the biplane (G-ANDE) had it’s undercarriage sheared off, it glided to a safe landing and was still flying years later after incidents and repairs. And apparently is being restored after yet another accident in 2007.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Jank

    I believe that helicopters are inherently less safe when compared to fixed wing aircraft. Not that they are more likely to go wrong but the results are often catastrophic/fatal when they do*. The recent helicopter crash thus being an unfortunate coincidence. Or fortunate depending upon political bias.
     
    For my job, I had to fly around in a Huey for a while. Never been near one before.

    I noted that television and movies give people no idea of the drama of a Huey coming in for a landing, or taking off. The wind, and the noise decibel level is indescribable. I remember thinking of the difference between a plane and a helicopter. A plane works in synergy with nature. A helicopter works by beating nature into submission, to apply it's own laws.

    You run out of engine power, or lose a prop in a plane, you still have a decent chance to win the day. You lose power or especially a rotor on a helicopter, no matter where you are, you're in for a hell of a lot of pain, if you should ultimately survive.

    One pilot told me piloting a helicopter is like managing a controlled crash. I concur.

    A helicopter is not supposed to fly. It doesn't readily conform with natural law. It overcomes it. That is, we can't make a working paper helicopter. We make it fly by being clever with brute force.

  29. @TheJester
    The inability of the US military to win wars, design airplanes that work, or safely sail ships is not hard to explain. In a PC world, appearances and delusions trump reality.

    The US officer corps has become an ineffective collection of PC sycophants. Indeed, mastering the military arts today is to learn how to manage the appearance of effectiveness to support feminist, minority, and LGBTxyz social agendas. That's all that matter on an officer's performance report ... does he or does he not support diversity and the other PC campaigns. At some point, their world becomes delusional as they actually start believing that the PC appearances are real. At that point, reality becomes nothing more than a hate fact threatening The Narrative. Unfortunately for them, reality has a tendency to bite back when least expected.

    None of this is new. History is replete with examples of politicized military organizations that devolved into Potempkin Villages just as readily as the rest of society with similar negative consequences.

    "Nothing seems to work anymore ... and we don't know why!"

    One recalls Stalin’s purging of the military just before WW2 for political reasons. Good thing for him that Zhukov survived.

    Read More
  30. @Autochthon
    I beg pardon of the other, but I conflate them añways: Jack Hanson and Jack D. I believe are their handles. I presume you are channelling the one I have in mind, with the help of Madame Cleo.

    I will add about the incompetence in the navy and denying reality, a phenomenon I have noticed increasing in frequency and scope as my career has continued in corporate Hell. My job, like Steve's old gig, has always been all about empirical research. More and more, I get dissatisied rejection of my work by the Man because the findings do not match their expectations. I arch an eyebrow and wonder why they don't just say ahead of time what they have decided the facts are, I can write a report to their liking (skipping actual research and analysis) and go home early, all the while making them happier with my work than if I'd actually done any....

    This phenomenon is very salient, ubiquitous, and growing, among corporations, academia, government, media, and the military. It accounts for a LOT of the horrorshows like the naval collissions, failed products, lost political campaigns, etc.

    It turns out that, like democracy and a middle class, empiricism was a brief anamoly in history.

    I beg pardon of the other, but I conflate them añways: Jack Hanson and Jack D. I believe are their handles. I presume you are channelling the one I have in mind, with the help of Madame Cleo.

    Yeah. That was so weird. I dreamt that I predicted the election correctly and it made me manic? Man, that was a weird dream…

    Read More
  31. AndrewR says:
    @Autochthon
    I beg pardon of the other, but I conflate them añways: Jack Hanson and Jack D. I believe are their handles. I presume you are channelling the one I have in mind, with the help of Madame Cleo.

    I will add about the incompetence in the navy and denying reality, a phenomenon I have noticed increasing in frequency and scope as my career has continued in corporate Hell. My job, like Steve's old gig, has always been all about empirical research. More and more, I get dissatisied rejection of my work by the Man because the findings do not match their expectations. I arch an eyebrow and wonder why they don't just say ahead of time what they have decided the facts are, I can write a report to their liking (skipping actual research and analysis) and go home early, all the while making them happier with my work than if I'd actually done any....

    This phenomenon is very salient, ubiquitous, and growing, among corporations, academia, government, media, and the military. It accounts for a LOT of the horrorshows like the naval collissions, failed products, lost political campaigns, etc.

    It turns out that, like democracy and a middle class, empiricism was a brief anamoly in history.

    Story/stories please?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Autochthon
    Oh, it's nothing so salacious as you may crave, and nothing I can anonymously relate in any detail. It's the stuff one expects and has seen in other contexts: Bank of America's phony checking accounts, the infamous O-rings Dr. Feynman pointed out post facto. In my case, lots of meticulously validated projections about sales of widgets or their prices which Simply Wouldn't Do if presented to The Street and so wanted massaging; insistence upon the viability of losing legal positions notwithstanding futility (because who wants to tell a client what je REALLY ought to do is shake it off and be more careful next time around...). The best scenarios are greenfield situations where one is commissioned to determine some unknown quantity previously uncounted, but, upon counting it, is told the numbers cannot be right, not with any cross examination of methodology, but because the boss "thinks there ought to be more (or less)" – whatever that means. (I'm sure Davis thought there ought to have been fewer casualties at Gettysburg...but it was no use denying the reports from his generals....). Of course, these attitudes avert none of the troubles they seek to deny.

    A man that flies from his fear may find that he has only taken a short cut to meet it.– Tolkien
     
  32. It’s rather a fortuitous turn of events when a blogger can let his high class commenters do the blogging. Internets ftw!

    Read More
  33. Alfa158 says:
    @for-the-record
    I don’t know about the grandfather, but trouble seems to be a McCain family specialty — thus the appropriateness of the collision.

    It was probably just a coincidence (although there are differing views on that), but I'm sure most recall that McCain the son was literally at the center of the worst US carrier fire since WWII, in July 1967 on the USS Forrestal in which 134 were killed and 161 injured.

    Reportedly McCain was a marginal pilot who lost a lot of planes and escaped being grounded only because of his family. The Forrestal fire though was not his fault, except to the extent that he is a magnet for bad things happening. One of the planes behind him had an electrical malfunction while being prepped, and one of it’s missiles launched. McCain’s plane was the one hit by the missile. He jumped out and escaped while the flight-deck went up in flames and explosions.
    The fire was filmed by the flight deck operations camera and my old Navy veteran friend tells me the film is shown to trainees for carrier duty as an example of selfless heroism in saving a ship. Periodically a bomb in the burning wreckage would detonate, wiping the fire fighting team off the deck. As soon as the smoke cleared the next fire fighting team would rush out and continue fighting until the next explosion blew them away, and so forth until the fire was under control. It was like having a live webcam recording an attack across no-man’s land at Verdun into the teeth of machine gun and artillery fire.
    The incident demonstrates yet again the fragility of aircraft carriers and why they are a multi-trillion dollar force that will be used to bomb Afghan horse barbarians, but will never be sent into range of actively hostile Chinese or Russian anti-shipping missiles.

    Read More
    • Replies: @ccs
    The War Nerd explains the obsolescence of the Navy in general, and aircraft carrier's in particular:

    http://exiledonline.com/the-war-nerd-this-is-how-the-carriers-will-die/
    , @Autochthon
    I was going to graciously and enthusiastically endorse your kind words explaining the actualities of shipboard life and this incident's demonstration that damage control at sea is every bit as dangerous and requires just as much steeled coursge as terrestrial battle...then I came to the silly conclusion evincing no underdtanding whatever of the purpose, use, and defense of a carrier (carriers are NOT definsible; carrier strike groups, and their seamless interconnection with the fleet – notably submarines, Hawkeyes, Growlers, and Aegis systems – and the Air Force, on the other hand, make destroying carriers no mean feat).

    Claiminng a carrier in the air is vulnerablenand worthless is like claiming an unsupported platoon of infantrymen is vulnerable and worthless: it is a true claim, with no useful applications.
    , @Dan Hayes
    Alfa 158:

    Thank you for giving a very even-handed description of McCain's role in the fire. I had not realized how brave the carrier's fire-fighting crews were. Truly brave men facing almost certain death!

    While I agree with your description of McCain's role in the fire, I nevertheless question one aspect of his behavior (or misbehavior) that you had not discussed. I understand that McCain went into sick bay with relatively minor injuries whereas his fellow aviators performed much more heroically in fighting the blaze.
    , @nebulafox
    The North Vietnamese anti-aircraft gunners were good at what they did.

    But of course, the fact that Operation Rolling Thunder strictly scheduled the same targets for the same, rotating weeks also helped them.
  34. fish says:
    @Buzz Mohawk
    OT: All the colliding of Navy ships and crashing of military helicopters going on has one wondering, which of the following is the reason?

    1) Coincidence

    2) General decline (like everything else and for the same reasons known to readers here)

    3) Voodoo from all the bad mojo in our currency and statues

    4) Serious shenanigans of a technical sort being pulled by someone who wants to send a message or interfere...

    Number 4 is the interesting one.

    The latest collision happened (appropriately?) to the Navy ship John McCain.

    2) General decline (like everything else and for the same reasons known to readers here)

    I’m guessing #2.

    The purpose of the military isn’t to actually fight wars any longer. Their role is to provide garrison troops in 3rd world shitholes and make sure that any soldier who wants one gets a spiffy new vagina!

    Read More
  35. Alfa158 says:
    @Anonymous
    It's the Chinese micro components in the myriad weapons systems.

    The Chinese are not our ally. They never have been. A tiny cabal of businessman have sold us out completely. Wake the hell up.

    I worked in the commercial sector of electronics so I don’t know what military electronics is getting sourced in China or other overseas locations that they might get their thumb into.
    I know that most US corporations are reluctant to spend the multi-billions of dollars that are required to build modern integrated circuit foundries. It is a much surer bet to spend 50 billion dollars on a merger, then fire enough redundant employees to recoup a nice guaranteed 6-10% a year on your investment. Making stuff is expensive, risky and low profit. Supposedly Apple is making at least 75% of all the world-wide profits being made on smart phones. You have seen most television set brands disappear because everyone loses money making them.
    Most of the foundries producing the actual integrated chips inside the package are in Asia now, including China. The chips that are still even being designed in the US have their mask, netlists, Gerber and other design files sent to overseas foundries for production.
    Depending on how far up the design chain the data is delivered, it is possible for a foundry in China to simply add malicious micro-circuitry to the original design and ship the resulting product back to the US. The circuitry in these products is now sub-microscopic in scale and immensely complex. If the pirate circuitry is designed to not be scanned and tested by the production test, there is no way of knowing it is there without going over the whole die, which may contain of millions of circuit elements with an electron microscope.
    Some people have speculated that the US drone brought down in one of the ‘stans and delivered intact to the Chinese, was not shot down or had an engine failure. The Chinese activated a back-door installed in the control circuit, took over remote control, and flew it in for a landing. Probably didn’t happen that way but not impossible either.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Paul Jolliffe
    Is this the event to which you are referring?

    http://www.businessinsider.com/david-cenciotti-china-copy-of-us-drone-2013-6
  36. @Autochthon
    I beg pardon of the other, but I conflate them añways: Jack Hanson and Jack D. I believe are their handles. I presume you are channelling the one I have in mind, with the help of Madame Cleo.

    I will add about the incompetence in the navy and denying reality, a phenomenon I have noticed increasing in frequency and scope as my career has continued in corporate Hell. My job, like Steve's old gig, has always been all about empirical research. More and more, I get dissatisied rejection of my work by the Man because the findings do not match their expectations. I arch an eyebrow and wonder why they don't just say ahead of time what they have decided the facts are, I can write a report to their liking (skipping actual research and analysis) and go home early, all the while making them happier with my work than if I'd actually done any....

    This phenomenon is very salient, ubiquitous, and growing, among corporations, academia, government, media, and the military. It accounts for a LOT of the horrorshows like the naval collissions, failed products, lost political campaigns, etc.

    It turns out that, like democracy and a middle class, empiricism was a brief anamoly in history.

    This phenomenon is very salient, ubiquitous, and growing, among corporations, academia, government, media, and the military. It accounts for a LOT of the horrorshows like the naval collissions, failed products, lost political campaigns, etc.

    Once one stops believing in God, one starts believing in anything.

    It turns out that, like democracy and a middle class, empiricism was a brief anamoly in history.

    No, not that brief, and probably not over yet.

    Read More
  37. @AnotherDad
    Of these four i'd plump for:

    2) General decline (like everything else and for the same reasons known to readers here)
     
    Perhaps too much office time/training-time spent on PC bullshit and not enough focus on absolute responsibility for ship and crew.

    But remember when you have a big organization that's actually doing stuff ... stuff goes wrong.

    The Navy did stupid stuff in the "before time" too. Like for instance Halsey and ... John McCain sailing directly into a big ass typhoon.

    The Navy did stupid stuff in the “before time” too. Like for instance Halsey and … John McCain sailing directly into a big ass typhoon.

    Twice.
    Halsey sailed into a typhoon twice.

    Read More
  38. ccs says:
    @Alfa158
    Reportedly McCain was a marginal pilot who lost a lot of planes and escaped being grounded only because of his family. The Forrestal fire though was not his fault, except to the extent that he is a magnet for bad things happening. One of the planes behind him had an electrical malfunction while being prepped, and one of it's missiles launched. McCain's plane was the one hit by the missile. He jumped out and escaped while the flight-deck went up in flames and explosions.
    The fire was filmed by the flight deck operations camera and my old Navy veteran friend tells me the film is shown to trainees for carrier duty as an example of selfless heroism in saving a ship. Periodically a bomb in the burning wreckage would detonate, wiping the fire fighting team off the deck. As soon as the smoke cleared the next fire fighting team would rush out and continue fighting until the next explosion blew them away, and so forth until the fire was under control. It was like having a live webcam recording an attack across no-man's land at Verdun into the teeth of machine gun and artillery fire.
    The incident demonstrates yet again the fragility of aircraft carriers and why they are a multi-trillion dollar force that will be used to bomb Afghan horse barbarians, but will never be sent into range of actively hostile Chinese or Russian anti-shipping missiles.

    The War Nerd explains the obsolescence of the Navy in general, and aircraft carrier’s in particular:

    http://exiledonline.com/the-war-nerd-this-is-how-the-carriers-will-die/

    Read More
  39. Ivy says:

    Once one stops believing in God, one starts believing in anything.

    Or they believe in nothing. To some, those are the same.

    Read More
  40. @Alfa158
    Reportedly McCain was a marginal pilot who lost a lot of planes and escaped being grounded only because of his family. The Forrestal fire though was not his fault, except to the extent that he is a magnet for bad things happening. One of the planes behind him had an electrical malfunction while being prepped, and one of it's missiles launched. McCain's plane was the one hit by the missile. He jumped out and escaped while the flight-deck went up in flames and explosions.
    The fire was filmed by the flight deck operations camera and my old Navy veteran friend tells me the film is shown to trainees for carrier duty as an example of selfless heroism in saving a ship. Periodically a bomb in the burning wreckage would detonate, wiping the fire fighting team off the deck. As soon as the smoke cleared the next fire fighting team would rush out and continue fighting until the next explosion blew them away, and so forth until the fire was under control. It was like having a live webcam recording an attack across no-man's land at Verdun into the teeth of machine gun and artillery fire.
    The incident demonstrates yet again the fragility of aircraft carriers and why they are a multi-trillion dollar force that will be used to bomb Afghan horse barbarians, but will never be sent into range of actively hostile Chinese or Russian anti-shipping missiles.

    I was going to graciously and enthusiastically endorse your kind words explaining the actualities of shipboard life and this incident’s demonstration that damage control at sea is every bit as dangerous and requires just as much steeled coursge as terrestrial battle…then I came to the silly conclusion evincing no underdtanding whatever of the purpose, use, and defense of a carrier (carriers are NOT definsible; carrier strike groups, and their seamless interconnection with the fleet – notably submarines, Hawkeyes, Growlers, and Aegis systems – and the Air Force, on the other hand, make destroying carriers no mean feat).

    Claiminng a carrier in the air is vulnerablenand worthless is like claiming an unsupported platoon of infantrymen is vulnerable and worthless: it is a true claim, with no useful applications.

    Read More
  41. Jank says:
    @Lurker
    I believe that helicopters are inherently less safe when compared to fixed wing aircraft. Not that they are more likely to go wrong but the results are often catastrophic/fatal when they do*. The recent helicopter crash thus being an unfortunate coincidence. Or fortunate depending upon political bias.

    *For example - I was present at an airshow in 1977 where a Bell Jetranger took off into the path of a De Havilland Tiger Moth biplane at little more than tree top height. The helicopter crashed straight to the ground killing all aboard and was a total write-off. Although the biplane (G-ANDE) had it's undercarriage sheared off, it glided to a safe landing and was still flying years later after incidents and repairs. And apparently is being restored after yet another accident in 2007.

    I believe that helicopters are inherently less safe when compared to fixed wing aircraft. Not that they are more likely to go wrong but the results are often catastrophic/fatal when they do*. The recent helicopter crash thus being an unfortunate coincidence. Or fortunate depending upon political bias.

    For my job, I had to fly around in a Huey for a while. Never been near one before.

    I noted that television and movies give people no idea of the drama of a Huey coming in for a landing, or taking off. The wind, and the noise decibel level is indescribable. I remember thinking of the difference between a plane and a helicopter. A plane works in synergy with nature. A helicopter works by beating nature into submission, to apply it’s own laws.

    You run out of engine power, or lose a prop in a plane, you still have a decent chance to win the day. You lose power or especially a rotor on a helicopter, no matter where you are, you’re in for a hell of a lot of pain, if you should ultimately survive.

    One pilot told me piloting a helicopter is like managing a controlled crash. I concur.

    A helicopter is not supposed to fly. It doesn’t readily conform with natural law. It overcomes it. That is, we can’t make a working paper helicopter. We make it fly by being clever with brute force.

    Read More
  42. Dan Hayes says:
    @Alfa158
    Reportedly McCain was a marginal pilot who lost a lot of planes and escaped being grounded only because of his family. The Forrestal fire though was not his fault, except to the extent that he is a magnet for bad things happening. One of the planes behind him had an electrical malfunction while being prepped, and one of it's missiles launched. McCain's plane was the one hit by the missile. He jumped out and escaped while the flight-deck went up in flames and explosions.
    The fire was filmed by the flight deck operations camera and my old Navy veteran friend tells me the film is shown to trainees for carrier duty as an example of selfless heroism in saving a ship. Periodically a bomb in the burning wreckage would detonate, wiping the fire fighting team off the deck. As soon as the smoke cleared the next fire fighting team would rush out and continue fighting until the next explosion blew them away, and so forth until the fire was under control. It was like having a live webcam recording an attack across no-man's land at Verdun into the teeth of machine gun and artillery fire.
    The incident demonstrates yet again the fragility of aircraft carriers and why they are a multi-trillion dollar force that will be used to bomb Afghan horse barbarians, but will never be sent into range of actively hostile Chinese or Russian anti-shipping missiles.

    Alfa 158:

    Thank you for giving a very even-handed description of McCain’s role in the fire. I had not realized how brave the carrier’s fire-fighting crews were. Truly brave men facing almost certain death!

    While I agree with your description of McCain’s role in the fire, I nevertheless question one aspect of his behavior (or misbehavior) that you had not discussed. I understand that McCain went into sick bay with relatively minor injuries whereas his fellow aviators performed much more heroically in fighting the blaze.

    Read More
    • Replies: @for-the-record
    Thank you for giving a very even-handed description of McCain’s role in the fire.

    You may find this account of interest, especially the parts referring to McCain's heroics:

    The damage to the Forrestal was far more grievous: The explosion set off a chain reaction of bombs, creating a devastating inferno that would kill 134 of the carrier's 5,000-man crew, injure 161 and threaten to sink the ship.

    These are the moments that test men's mettle. Where leaders are born. Leaders like . . . Lt. Cmdr. Herb Hope, pilot of the A-4 three planes down from McCain's. Cornered by flames at the stern of the carrier, Hope hurled himself off the flight deck into a safety net and clambered into the hangar deck below, where the fire was spreading. According to an official Navy history of the fire, Hope then "gallantly took command of a firefighting team" that would help contain the conflagration and ultimately save the ship.

    McCain displayed little of Hope's valor. Although he would soon regale The New York Times with tales of the heroism of the brave enlisted men who "stayed to help the pilots fight the fire," McCain took no part in dousing the flames himself. After going belowdecks and briefly helping sailors who were frantically trying to unload bombs from an elevator to the flight deck, McCain retreated to the safety of the "ready room," where off-duty pilots spent their noncombat hours talking trash and playing poker. There, McCain watched the conflagration unfold on the room's closed-circuit television — bearing distant witness to the valiant self-sacrifice of others who died trying to save the ship, pushing jets into the sea to keep their bombs from exploding on deck.

    As the ship burned, McCain took a moment to mourn his misfortune; his combat career appeared to be going up in smoke. "This distressed me considerably," he recalls in Faith of My Fathers. "I feared my ambitions were among the casualties in the calamity that had claimed the Forrestal."

    The fire blazed late into the night. The following morning, while oxygen-masked rescue workers toiled to recover bodies from the lower decks, McCain was making fast friends with R.W. "Johnny" Apple of The New York Times, who had arrived by helicopter to cover the deadliest Naval calamity since the Second World War. The son of admiralty surviving a near-death experience certainly made for good copy, and McCain colorfully recounted how he had saved his skin. But when Apple and other reporters left the ship, the story took an even stranger turn: McCain left with them. As the heroic crew of the Forrestal mourned its fallen brothers and the broken ship limped toward the Philippines for repairs, McCain zipped off to Saigon for what he recalls as "some welcome R&R."

    http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/make-believe-maverick-20081016

     

  43. nebulafox says:
    @Alfa158
    Reportedly McCain was a marginal pilot who lost a lot of planes and escaped being grounded only because of his family. The Forrestal fire though was not his fault, except to the extent that he is a magnet for bad things happening. One of the planes behind him had an electrical malfunction while being prepped, and one of it's missiles launched. McCain's plane was the one hit by the missile. He jumped out and escaped while the flight-deck went up in flames and explosions.
    The fire was filmed by the flight deck operations camera and my old Navy veteran friend tells me the film is shown to trainees for carrier duty as an example of selfless heroism in saving a ship. Periodically a bomb in the burning wreckage would detonate, wiping the fire fighting team off the deck. As soon as the smoke cleared the next fire fighting team would rush out and continue fighting until the next explosion blew them away, and so forth until the fire was under control. It was like having a live webcam recording an attack across no-man's land at Verdun into the teeth of machine gun and artillery fire.
    The incident demonstrates yet again the fragility of aircraft carriers and why they are a multi-trillion dollar force that will be used to bomb Afghan horse barbarians, but will never be sent into range of actively hostile Chinese or Russian anti-shipping missiles.

    The North Vietnamese anti-aircraft gunners were good at what they did.

    But of course, the fact that Operation Rolling Thunder strictly scheduled the same targets for the same, rotating weeks also helped them.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    It was incredibly stupid to send attacks in at predictable times, headings and even altitudes and yet that is what happened. The fact is that the air war in Vietnam was fought so stupidly that the enemy was incredulous anyone would do that.
  44. @AndrewR
    Story/stories please?

    Oh, it’s nothing so salacious as you may crave, and nothing I can anonymously relate in any detail. It’s the stuff one expects and has seen in other contexts: Bank of America’s phony checking accounts, the infamous O-rings Dr. Feynman pointed out post facto. In my case, lots of meticulously validated projections about sales of widgets or their prices which Simply Wouldn’t Do if presented to The Street and so wanted massaging; insistence upon the viability of losing legal positions notwithstanding futility (because who wants to tell a client what je REALLY ought to do is shake it off and be more careful next time around…). The best scenarios are greenfield situations where one is commissioned to determine some unknown quantity previously uncounted, but, upon counting it, is told the numbers cannot be right, not with any cross examination of methodology, but because the boss “thinks there ought to be more (or less)” – whatever that means. (I’m sure Davis thought there ought to have been fewer casualties at Gettysburg…but it was no use denying the reports from his generals….). Of course, these attitudes avert none of the troubles they seek to deny.

    A man that flies from his fear may find that he has only taken a short cut to meet it.– Tolkien

    Read More
  45. @Dan Hayes
    Alfa 158:

    Thank you for giving a very even-handed description of McCain's role in the fire. I had not realized how brave the carrier's fire-fighting crews were. Truly brave men facing almost certain death!

    While I agree with your description of McCain's role in the fire, I nevertheless question one aspect of his behavior (or misbehavior) that you had not discussed. I understand that McCain went into sick bay with relatively minor injuries whereas his fellow aviators performed much more heroically in fighting the blaze.

    Thank you for giving a very even-handed description of McCain’s role in the fire.

    You may find this account of interest, especially the parts referring to McCain’s heroics:

    The damage to the Forrestal was far more grievous: The explosion set off a chain reaction of bombs, creating a devastating inferno that would kill 134 of the carrier’s 5,000-man crew, injure 161 and threaten to sink the ship.

    These are the moments that test men’s mettle. Where leaders are born. Leaders like . . . Lt. Cmdr. Herb Hope, pilot of the A-4 three planes down from McCain’s. Cornered by flames at the stern of the carrier, Hope hurled himself off the flight deck into a safety net and clambered into the hangar deck below, where the fire was spreading. According to an official Navy history of the fire, Hope then “gallantly took command of a firefighting team” that would help contain the conflagration and ultimately save the ship.

    McCain displayed little of Hope’s valor. Although he would soon regale The New York Times with tales of the heroism of the brave enlisted men who “stayed to help the pilots fight the fire,” McCain took no part in dousing the flames himself. After going belowdecks and briefly helping sailors who were frantically trying to unload bombs from an elevator to the flight deck, McCain retreated to the safety of the “ready room,” where off-duty pilots spent their noncombat hours talking trash and playing poker. There, McCain watched the conflagration unfold on the room’s closed-circuit television — bearing distant witness to the valiant self-sacrifice of others who died trying to save the ship, pushing jets into the sea to keep their bombs from exploding on deck.

    As the ship burned, McCain took a moment to mourn his misfortune; his combat career appeared to be going up in smoke. “This distressed me considerably,” he recalls in Faith of My Fathers. “I feared my ambitions were among the casualties in the calamity that had claimed the Forrestal.”

    The fire blazed late into the night. The following morning, while oxygen-masked rescue workers toiled to recover bodies from the lower decks, McCain was making fast friends with R.W. “Johnny” Apple of The New York Times, who had arrived by helicopter to cover the deadliest Naval calamity since the Second World War. The son of admiralty surviving a near-death experience certainly made for good copy, and McCain colorfully recounted how he had saved his skin. But when Apple and other reporters left the ship, the story took an even stranger turn: McCain left with them. As the heroic crew of the Forrestal mourned its fallen brothers and the broken ship limped toward the Philippines for repairs, McCain zipped off to Saigon for what he recalls as “some welcome R&R.”

    http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/make-believe-maverick-20081016

    Read More
    • Replies: @Dan Hayes
    for-the-record:

    Thank you for the update on McCain's role in the carrier's fire.

    Your report and that of others attest to McCain's character: a potent combination of shallowness and viciousness. His lack of actual character attests to the sorry current state of American politics.
  46. AndrewR says:
    @Autochthon
    Oh, it's nothing so salacious as you may crave, and nothing I can anonymously relate in any detail. It's the stuff one expects and has seen in other contexts: Bank of America's phony checking accounts, the infamous O-rings Dr. Feynman pointed out post facto. In my case, lots of meticulously validated projections about sales of widgets or their prices which Simply Wouldn't Do if presented to The Street and so wanted massaging; insistence upon the viability of losing legal positions notwithstanding futility (because who wants to tell a client what je REALLY ought to do is shake it off and be more careful next time around...). The best scenarios are greenfield situations where one is commissioned to determine some unknown quantity previously uncounted, but, upon counting it, is told the numbers cannot be right, not with any cross examination of methodology, but because the boss "thinks there ought to be more (or less)" – whatever that means. (I'm sure Davis thought there ought to have been fewer casualties at Gettysburg...but it was no use denying the reports from his generals....). Of course, these attitudes avert none of the troubles they seek to deny.

    A man that flies from his fear may find that he has only taken a short cut to meet it.– Tolkien
     

    Sounds a bit demoralizing.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Autochthon
    You don't know the half of it.

    Lately, I mostly throw rocks in the ocean all day for money – a lot of money. 'Murrikkka.
  47. Dan Hayes says:
    @for-the-record
    Thank you for giving a very even-handed description of McCain’s role in the fire.

    You may find this account of interest, especially the parts referring to McCain's heroics:

    The damage to the Forrestal was far more grievous: The explosion set off a chain reaction of bombs, creating a devastating inferno that would kill 134 of the carrier's 5,000-man crew, injure 161 and threaten to sink the ship.

    These are the moments that test men's mettle. Where leaders are born. Leaders like . . . Lt. Cmdr. Herb Hope, pilot of the A-4 three planes down from McCain's. Cornered by flames at the stern of the carrier, Hope hurled himself off the flight deck into a safety net and clambered into the hangar deck below, where the fire was spreading. According to an official Navy history of the fire, Hope then "gallantly took command of a firefighting team" that would help contain the conflagration and ultimately save the ship.

    McCain displayed little of Hope's valor. Although he would soon regale The New York Times with tales of the heroism of the brave enlisted men who "stayed to help the pilots fight the fire," McCain took no part in dousing the flames himself. After going belowdecks and briefly helping sailors who were frantically trying to unload bombs from an elevator to the flight deck, McCain retreated to the safety of the "ready room," where off-duty pilots spent their noncombat hours talking trash and playing poker. There, McCain watched the conflagration unfold on the room's closed-circuit television — bearing distant witness to the valiant self-sacrifice of others who died trying to save the ship, pushing jets into the sea to keep their bombs from exploding on deck.

    As the ship burned, McCain took a moment to mourn his misfortune; his combat career appeared to be going up in smoke. "This distressed me considerably," he recalls in Faith of My Fathers. "I feared my ambitions were among the casualties in the calamity that had claimed the Forrestal."

    The fire blazed late into the night. The following morning, while oxygen-masked rescue workers toiled to recover bodies from the lower decks, McCain was making fast friends with R.W. "Johnny" Apple of The New York Times, who had arrived by helicopter to cover the deadliest Naval calamity since the Second World War. The son of admiralty surviving a near-death experience certainly made for good copy, and McCain colorfully recounted how he had saved his skin. But when Apple and other reporters left the ship, the story took an even stranger turn: McCain left with them. As the heroic crew of the Forrestal mourned its fallen brothers and the broken ship limped toward the Philippines for repairs, McCain zipped off to Saigon for what he recalls as "some welcome R&R."

    http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/make-believe-maverick-20081016

     

    for-the-record:

    Thank you for the update on McCain’s role in the carrier’s fire.

    Your report and that of others attest to McCain’s character: a potent combination of shallowness and viciousness. His lack of actual character attests to the sorry current state of American politics.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    McCain didn't do much to save the aircraft carrier, but presumably he wasn't trained as a firefighter and likely was in shock from the having his airplane blown up by an air-to-air missile while he was awaiting takeoff.

    Of the five airplanes he lost, this one was obviously not his fault in anyway.

  48. @Dan Hayes
    for-the-record:

    Thank you for the update on McCain's role in the carrier's fire.

    Your report and that of others attest to McCain's character: a potent combination of shallowness and viciousness. His lack of actual character attests to the sorry current state of American politics.

    McCain didn’t do much to save the aircraft carrier, but presumably he wasn’t trained as a firefighter and likely was in shock from the having his airplane blown up by an air-to-air missile while he was awaiting takeoff.

    Of the five airplanes he lost, this one was obviously not his fault in anyway.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Dan Hayes
    Steve,

    You are absolutely correct that McCain played no role in initiating the carrier's fire.

    I do question his role after the explosion. Whereas another aviator caught in the fire hurled himself off the flight deck into a safety net and then took control of a firefighting team, McCain retired to the safety of the "ready room" to watch the fire unfold on the room's closed-circuit television.
    , @Autochthon
    ALL sailors are trained as firefighters. It's true the dedicated rating of damage control entails far more advanced and specialised training, but any boot fresh from Great Mistakes to chock chains and chip paint is qualified to pitch in with damage control when general quarters is called.

    If McCain was truly out if it, and orderd belowdecks for medical evaluation, that's fair enough. If he decided he'd stubbed his toe or feñt woozy and went on his own, I'd arch an eyebrow and suspect malingering. I don't think anyone knows or is telling, but based upon what I have seen of the dude'd character in pubic life and what is public about his service record, I suspect the latter....

    In any event "I'm not a trained firefighter!" is not an excuse; it's tantamount to "I'm not a trained sailor; I have no business even being deployed at sea!"
    , @Anonymous
    Of the other four, three were on his watch. One is usually the limit outside combat.

    Either he is a sociopath or he's a living Bad Luck Schleprock.

    I worked on a railroad property once where usual third trick conversation came back to a former worker, "Walt", once in a while. Walt was a former airline mechanic who had acquired a reputation for being around or causing catastrophe at the airline, and when the overhaul base shut down went to the railroad along with a couple dozen other people. Most did fine, but Walt was responsible for a couple of derailments and near collisions and had scared many of his co-workers badly. However, he was protected by the union, so management did little.

    One day Walt caused a major collision that destroyed a nearly brand new GE Dash Nine locomotive and caused severe injuries. One hogger refused to go back to work claiming, probably truthfully, he was terrified of getting on a train, and the company had to give him full disability. They finally "bought out" Walt at a cost of perhaps a half million dollars.

    Yet no one hated Walt. Any discussion of him to newbies was prefaced by "we really liked the guy, he was a nice guy". Apparently, the poor guy was really not intentionally destructive: he was just bad luck. Although the problems he was directly involved with always had a demonstrable cause in his using poor judgment or momentary inattenton, sometimes stuff would happen around him not directly involving him that would involve mysterious lapses or equipment failures. People pretty soon came to the conclusion he was a magnet for trouble and there was no solution but to keep him away from any activity with serious consequences in the real world.

    There are many aspects to all this, but one lesson is that rather than trying to diagnose certain things it's best to sometimes recognize certain people are walking catastrophes and not let them around any activity of consequence. John S McCain III is very certainly one of these even if his general behavior in life weren't so lousy. Allowing him any access to power or authority is a mistake.
  49. Dan Hayes says:
    @Steve Sailer
    McCain didn't do much to save the aircraft carrier, but presumably he wasn't trained as a firefighter and likely was in shock from the having his airplane blown up by an air-to-air missile while he was awaiting takeoff.

    Of the five airplanes he lost, this one was obviously not his fault in anyway.

    Steve,

    You are absolutely correct that McCain played no role in initiating the carrier’s fire.

    I do question his role after the explosion. Whereas another aviator caught in the fire hurled himself off the flight deck into a safety net and then took control of a firefighting team, McCain retired to the safety of the “ready room” to watch the fire unfold on the room’s closed-circuit television.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    McCain definitely didn't do much heroic, but he was perhaps pretty bombed out of his head by having his plane blown up.
  50. @Dan Hayes
    Steve,

    You are absolutely correct that McCain played no role in initiating the carrier's fire.

    I do question his role after the explosion. Whereas another aviator caught in the fire hurled himself off the flight deck into a safety net and then took control of a firefighting team, McCain retired to the safety of the "ready room" to watch the fire unfold on the room's closed-circuit television.

    McCain definitely didn’t do much heroic, but he was perhaps pretty bombed out of his head by having his plane blown up.

    Read More
    • Replies: @for-the-record
    McCain definitely didn’t do much heroic, but he was perhaps pretty bombed out of his head by having his plane blown up.

    His shock, clearly more than that suffered by his colleagues, thus explains the following:

    As the heroic crew of the Forrestal mourned its fallen brothers and the broken ship limped toward the Philippines for repairs, McCain zipped off to Saigon for what he recalls as “some welcome R&R.”
     
  51. @Steve Sailer
    McCain didn't do much to save the aircraft carrier, but presumably he wasn't trained as a firefighter and likely was in shock from the having his airplane blown up by an air-to-air missile while he was awaiting takeoff.

    Of the five airplanes he lost, this one was obviously not his fault in anyway.

    ALL sailors are trained as firefighters. It’s true the dedicated rating of damage control entails far more advanced and specialised training, but any boot fresh from Great Mistakes to chock chains and chip paint is qualified to pitch in with damage control when general quarters is called.

    If McCain was truly out if it, and orderd belowdecks for medical evaluation, that’s fair enough. If he decided he’d stubbed his toe or feñt woozy and went on his own, I’d arch an eyebrow and suspect malingering. I don’t think anyone knows or is telling, but based upon what I have seen of the dude’d character in pubic life and what is public about his service record, I suspect the latter….

    In any event “I’m not a trained firefighter!” is not an excuse; it’s tantamount to “I’m not a trained sailor; I have no business even being deployed at sea!”

    Read More
    • Replies: @Dan Hayes
    Autochton:

    I agree with your "take" on McCain's behavior in this one instance (the carrier fire). This is the same type behavior also shown throughout his public and private life.

    The fact that he was not seriously injured and spent his "ready room" time watching the ongoing carnage on closed circuit television shows him to be a charter member of the "me" generation.
    , @Anonymous
    Do all Naval Academy cadets go to sea as midshipmen any more, or did they then? Certainly boot camp for enlisted sailors has firefighting and damage control as a core item.
    , @Lurker
    My understanding was that before the Forrestal fire damage control/fire fighting was a specialised role and the this fire was the event that changed the Navy's whole approach. From then on everyone was given firefighter training.

    Either way McCain looks bad. If the training was standard for everyone, why didn't he join the fray? If the training was not commonplace, then why did other men of all ranks without the training join the effort and not him?

  52. @Steve Sailer
    McCain definitely didn't do much heroic, but he was perhaps pretty bombed out of his head by having his plane blown up.

    McCain definitely didn’t do much heroic, but he was perhaps pretty bombed out of his head by having his plane blown up.

    His shock, clearly more than that suffered by his colleagues, thus explains the following:

    As the heroic crew of the Forrestal mourned its fallen brothers and the broken ship limped toward the Philippines for repairs, McCain zipped off to Saigon for what he recalls as “some welcome R&R.”

    Read More
  53. Dan Hayes says:
    @Autochthon
    ALL sailors are trained as firefighters. It's true the dedicated rating of damage control entails far more advanced and specialised training, but any boot fresh from Great Mistakes to chock chains and chip paint is qualified to pitch in with damage control when general quarters is called.

    If McCain was truly out if it, and orderd belowdecks for medical evaluation, that's fair enough. If he decided he'd stubbed his toe or feñt woozy and went on his own, I'd arch an eyebrow and suspect malingering. I don't think anyone knows or is telling, but based upon what I have seen of the dude'd character in pubic life and what is public about his service record, I suspect the latter....

    In any event "I'm not a trained firefighter!" is not an excuse; it's tantamount to "I'm not a trained sailor; I have no business even being deployed at sea!"

    Autochton:

    I agree with your “take” on McCain’s behavior in this one instance (the carrier fire). This is the same type behavior also shown throughout his public and private life.

    The fact that he was not seriously injured and spent his “ready room” time watching the ongoing carnage on closed circuit television shows him to be a charter member of the “me” generation.

    Read More
  54. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @nebulafox
    The North Vietnamese anti-aircraft gunners were good at what they did.

    But of course, the fact that Operation Rolling Thunder strictly scheduled the same targets for the same, rotating weeks also helped them.

    It was incredibly stupid to send attacks in at predictable times, headings and even altitudes and yet that is what happened. The fact is that the air war in Vietnam was fought so stupidly that the enemy was incredulous anyone would do that.

    Read More
    • Replies: @nebulafox
    Operation Linebacker really caught them off guard as a result.

    "So this is what a real strategic air campaign is like... and our war machine has been flattened to the point that the invasion won't be ready until '75. And those craven pseudo-imperialists in Moscow and Beijing betrayed us. OK, better actually take the Paris talks seriously now."
  55. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @Autochthon
    ALL sailors are trained as firefighters. It's true the dedicated rating of damage control entails far more advanced and specialised training, but any boot fresh from Great Mistakes to chock chains and chip paint is qualified to pitch in with damage control when general quarters is called.

    If McCain was truly out if it, and orderd belowdecks for medical evaluation, that's fair enough. If he decided he'd stubbed his toe or feñt woozy and went on his own, I'd arch an eyebrow and suspect malingering. I don't think anyone knows or is telling, but based upon what I have seen of the dude'd character in pubic life and what is public about his service record, I suspect the latter....

    In any event "I'm not a trained firefighter!" is not an excuse; it's tantamount to "I'm not a trained sailor; I have no business even being deployed at sea!"

    Do all Naval Academy cadets go to sea as midshipmen any more, or did they then? Certainly boot camp for enlisted sailors has firefighting and damage control as a core item.

    Read More
  56. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @Steve Sailer
    McCain didn't do much to save the aircraft carrier, but presumably he wasn't trained as a firefighter and likely was in shock from the having his airplane blown up by an air-to-air missile while he was awaiting takeoff.

    Of the five airplanes he lost, this one was obviously not his fault in anyway.

    Of the other four, three were on his watch. One is usually the limit outside combat.

    Either he is a sociopath or he’s a living Bad Luck Schleprock.

    I worked on a railroad property once where usual third trick conversation came back to a former worker, “Walt”, once in a while. Walt was a former airline mechanic who had acquired a reputation for being around or causing catastrophe at the airline, and when the overhaul base shut down went to the railroad along with a couple dozen other people. Most did fine, but Walt was responsible for a couple of derailments and near collisions and had scared many of his co-workers badly. However, he was protected by the union, so management did little.

    One day Walt caused a major collision that destroyed a nearly brand new GE Dash Nine locomotive and caused severe injuries. One hogger refused to go back to work claiming, probably truthfully, he was terrified of getting on a train, and the company had to give him full disability. They finally “bought out” Walt at a cost of perhaps a half million dollars.

    Yet no one hated Walt. Any discussion of him to newbies was prefaced by “we really liked the guy, he was a nice guy”. Apparently, the poor guy was really not intentionally destructive: he was just bad luck. Although the problems he was directly involved with always had a demonstrable cause in his using poor judgment or momentary inattenton, sometimes stuff would happen around him not directly involving him that would involve mysterious lapses or equipment failures. People pretty soon came to the conclusion he was a magnet for trouble and there was no solution but to keep him away from any activity with serious consequences in the real world.

    There are many aspects to all this, but one lesson is that rather than trying to diagnose certain things it’s best to sometimes recognize certain people are walking catastrophes and not let them around any activity of consequence. John S McCain III is very certainly one of these even if his general behavior in life weren’t so lousy. Allowing him any access to power or authority is a mistake.

    Read More
    • Replies: @res
    I think it's fair to assume most people who are getting second, third, fourth, etc. chances are those who either are thought well of by most people (Walt) or have significant pull (McCain). Well, these days I suppose having enough diversity Pokemon points also qualifies.
  57. @Alfa158
    I worked in the commercial sector of electronics so I don't know what military electronics is getting sourced in China or other overseas locations that they might get their thumb into.
    I know that most US corporations are reluctant to spend the multi-billions of dollars that are required to build modern integrated circuit foundries. It is a much surer bet to spend 50 billion dollars on a merger, then fire enough redundant employees to recoup a nice guaranteed 6-10% a year on your investment. Making stuff is expensive, risky and low profit. Supposedly Apple is making at least 75% of all the world-wide profits being made on smart phones. You have seen most television set brands disappear because everyone loses money making them.
    Most of the foundries producing the actual integrated chips inside the package are in Asia now, including China. The chips that are still even being designed in the US have their mask, netlists, Gerber and other design files sent to overseas foundries for production.
    Depending on how far up the design chain the data is delivered, it is possible for a foundry in China to simply add malicious micro-circuitry to the original design and ship the resulting product back to the US. The circuitry in these products is now sub-microscopic in scale and immensely complex. If the pirate circuitry is designed to not be scanned and tested by the production test, there is no way of knowing it is there without going over the whole die, which may contain of millions of circuit elements with an electron microscope.
    Some people have speculated that the US drone brought down in one of the 'stans and delivered intact to the Chinese, was not shot down or had an engine failure. The Chinese activated a back-door installed in the control circuit, took over remote control, and flew it in for a landing. Probably didn't happen that way but not impossible either.
    Read More
  58. @Anonymous
    Do all Naval Academy cadets go to sea as midshipmen any more, or did they then? Certainly boot camp for enlisted sailors has firefighting and damage control as a core item.

    Yes.

    Those completing officer candidate school must also qualify.

    Read More
  59. Lurker says:
    @Autochthon
    ALL sailors are trained as firefighters. It's true the dedicated rating of damage control entails far more advanced and specialised training, but any boot fresh from Great Mistakes to chock chains and chip paint is qualified to pitch in with damage control when general quarters is called.

    If McCain was truly out if it, and orderd belowdecks for medical evaluation, that's fair enough. If he decided he'd stubbed his toe or feñt woozy and went on his own, I'd arch an eyebrow and suspect malingering. I don't think anyone knows or is telling, but based upon what I have seen of the dude'd character in pubic life and what is public about his service record, I suspect the latter....

    In any event "I'm not a trained firefighter!" is not an excuse; it's tantamount to "I'm not a trained sailor; I have no business even being deployed at sea!"

    My understanding was that before the Forrestal fire damage control/fire fighting was a specialised role and the this fire was the event that changed the Navy’s whole approach. From then on everyone was given firefighter training.

    Either way McCain looks bad. If the training was standard for everyone, why didn’t he join the fray? If the training was not commonplace, then why did other men of all ranks without the training join the effort and not him?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Autochthon
    Negative, Ghostrider; damage control is every sailor's job – in many ways his most important and basic responsibility – and has been since the days of sail. As the old adminition to young sailors goes: "If you don't think damage control is important to you, ask yourself how long you can tread water." Perhaps most famously before the war in Viet Nam, the United States Navy famed penchant for keeping her ships in the fight despite damage that crippled or destoyed Japanese ships is one reason for success during the Second World War; the navy very early on had come to appreciate the importance and potential for effective damage control from – who else? – the Germans (in those days German leaders had brains and testicles, of course). The Americans went so far as to purloin and translate German manuals for damage control because the Germans' techniques were so effective.

    An excellent contemporary account of the fire aboard Forrestal – including certain improvements to procedures and equipment that tragedy prompted – is available here.

    As to your questions: 1) It is everyone's respinsibility, whether you are a yeoman, an eñectronics technician, a cruptographer, or a deck ape; an unrated seaman or the admiral of the fleet – the account I cite tells the stories of many brave sailors. Those who could not reach their stations for general quarters (i.e., battlestations) because the fires blocked access grabbed a hose and got to work or started chucking ordnance into the ocean. 2) The fact that the ostensibly heroic McCain did not contribute to the efforts as so many others did provides its own answer about why he did not (presuming he was able-bodied to, and it seems he was): a noun which rhymes with "Broward."
  60. nebulafox says:
    @Anonymous
    It was incredibly stupid to send attacks in at predictable times, headings and even altitudes and yet that is what happened. The fact is that the air war in Vietnam was fought so stupidly that the enemy was incredulous anyone would do that.

    Operation Linebacker really caught them off guard as a result.

    “So this is what a real strategic air campaign is like… and our war machine has been flattened to the point that the invasion won’t be ready until ’75. And those craven pseudo-imperialists in Moscow and Beijing betrayed us. OK, better actually take the Paris talks seriously now.”

    Read More
  61. @Lurker
    My understanding was that before the Forrestal fire damage control/fire fighting was a specialised role and the this fire was the event that changed the Navy's whole approach. From then on everyone was given firefighter training.

    Either way McCain looks bad. If the training was standard for everyone, why didn't he join the fray? If the training was not commonplace, then why did other men of all ranks without the training join the effort and not him?

    Negative, Ghostrider; damage control is every sailor’s job – in many ways his most important and basic responsibility – and has been since the days of sail. As the old adminition to young sailors goes: “If you don’t think damage control is important to you, ask yourself how long you can tread water.” Perhaps most famously before the war in Viet Nam, the United States Navy famed penchant for keeping her ships in the fight despite damage that crippled or destoyed Japanese ships is one reason for success during the Second World War; the navy very early on had come to appreciate the importance and potential for effective damage control from – who else? – the Germans (in those days German leaders had brains and testicles, of course). The Americans went so far as to purloin and translate German manuals for damage control because the Germans’ techniques were so effective.

    An excellent contemporary account of the fire aboard Forrestal – including certain improvements to procedures and equipment that tragedy prompted – is available here.

    As to your questions: 1) It is everyone’s respinsibility, whether you are a yeoman, an eñectronics technician, a cruptographer, or a deck ape; an unrated seaman or the admiral of the fleet – the account I cite tells the stories of many brave sailors. Those who could not reach their stations for general quarters (i.e., battlestations) because the fires blocked access grabbed a hose and got to work or started chucking ordnance into the ocean. 2) The fact that the ostensibly heroic McCain did not contribute to the efforts as so many others did provides its own answer about why he did not (presuming he was able-bodied to, and it seems he was): a noun which rhymes with “Broward.”

    Read More
  62. @AndrewR
    Sounds a bit demoralizing.

    You don’t know the half of it.

    Lately, I mostly throw rocks in the ocean all day for money – a lot of money. ‘Murrikkka.

    Read More
  63. res says:
    @Anonymous
    Of the other four, three were on his watch. One is usually the limit outside combat.

    Either he is a sociopath or he's a living Bad Luck Schleprock.

    I worked on a railroad property once where usual third trick conversation came back to a former worker, "Walt", once in a while. Walt was a former airline mechanic who had acquired a reputation for being around or causing catastrophe at the airline, and when the overhaul base shut down went to the railroad along with a couple dozen other people. Most did fine, but Walt was responsible for a couple of derailments and near collisions and had scared many of his co-workers badly. However, he was protected by the union, so management did little.

    One day Walt caused a major collision that destroyed a nearly brand new GE Dash Nine locomotive and caused severe injuries. One hogger refused to go back to work claiming, probably truthfully, he was terrified of getting on a train, and the company had to give him full disability. They finally "bought out" Walt at a cost of perhaps a half million dollars.

    Yet no one hated Walt. Any discussion of him to newbies was prefaced by "we really liked the guy, he was a nice guy". Apparently, the poor guy was really not intentionally destructive: he was just bad luck. Although the problems he was directly involved with always had a demonstrable cause in his using poor judgment or momentary inattenton, sometimes stuff would happen around him not directly involving him that would involve mysterious lapses or equipment failures. People pretty soon came to the conclusion he was a magnet for trouble and there was no solution but to keep him away from any activity with serious consequences in the real world.

    There are many aspects to all this, but one lesson is that rather than trying to diagnose certain things it's best to sometimes recognize certain people are walking catastrophes and not let them around any activity of consequence. John S McCain III is very certainly one of these even if his general behavior in life weren't so lousy. Allowing him any access to power or authority is a mistake.

    I think it’s fair to assume most people who are getting second, third, fourth, etc. chances are those who either are thought well of by most people (Walt) or have significant pull (McCain). Well, these days I suppose having enough diversity Pokemon points also qualifies.

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    • Replies: @Desiderius
    The wheels that are coming off are coming off because the right people are being denied first chances.
  64. @res
    I think it's fair to assume most people who are getting second, third, fourth, etc. chances are those who either are thought well of by most people (Walt) or have significant pull (McCain). Well, these days I suppose having enough diversity Pokemon points also qualifies.

    The wheels that are coming off are coming off because the right people are being denied first chances.

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  65. Lurker says:
    @Autochthon
    Negative, Ghostrider; damage control is every sailor's job – in many ways his most important and basic responsibility – and has been since the days of sail. As the old adminition to young sailors goes: "If you don't think damage control is important to you, ask yourself how long you can tread water." Perhaps most famously before the war in Viet Nam, the United States Navy famed penchant for keeping her ships in the fight despite damage that crippled or destoyed Japanese ships is one reason for success during the Second World War; the navy very early on had come to appreciate the importance and potential for effective damage control from – who else? – the Germans (in those days German leaders had brains and testicles, of course). The Americans went so far as to purloin and translate German manuals for damage control because the Germans' techniques were so effective.

    An excellent contemporary account of the fire aboard Forrestal – including certain improvements to procedures and equipment that tragedy prompted – is available here.

    As to your questions: 1) It is everyone's respinsibility, whether you are a yeoman, an eñectronics technician, a cruptographer, or a deck ape; an unrated seaman or the admiral of the fleet – the account I cite tells the stories of many brave sailors. Those who could not reach their stations for general quarters (i.e., battlestations) because the fires blocked access grabbed a hose and got to work or started chucking ordnance into the ocean. 2) The fact that the ostensibly heroic McCain did not contribute to the efforts as so many others did provides its own answer about why he did not (presuming he was able-bodied to, and it seems he was): a noun which rhymes with "Broward."

    Thanks!

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    • Replies: @Autochthon
    You are welcome. If the topic interests you, here is a pretty neat thesis by a graduate student of history documenting the state of the art of damage control during World War Two through a case study of the Yorktown, whose reputation for outstanding damage control was nonpareil, and may well have decided the battles of both Midway and the Coral Sea...and thus the war.
  66. @Lurker
    Thanks!

    You are welcome. If the topic interests you, here is a pretty neat thesis by a graduate student of history documenting the state of the art of damage control during World War Two through a case study of the Yorktown, whose reputation for outstanding damage control was nonpareil, and may well have decided the battles of both Midway and the Coral Sea…and thus the war.

    Read More

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