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The Two Meanings of "Affordable Housing"
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You hear a lot about “affordable housing” these days, but it can be hard to make sense of the rhetoric since the term can have at least two different meanings.

1. “Affordable housing” can mean that new luxury developments must offer some of their units to selected people at low (i.e., subsidized) prices for some number of years, such as ten or twenty. Developers complain but they often wind up going along with these demands, even though it means a big subsidy from their full-price renters/buyers to the lucky few who get “affordable” places. This definition is popular with the sleazier sort of activist groups that are looking to get a handout.

2. “Affordable housing” can also mean building low budget cheap housing on expensive land. This definition is popular with the wonkier, more public spirited-type of Yes In My Back Yard activists. But this is usually less popular with property-owning neighbors than the first kind of affordable housing. One big problem with building cheap housing is that while when the building is brand new, it might attract a decent type of tenant, but a few decades later when it’s aging and dingy it’s likely to become a real slum. So neighbors who own property are generally not at all happy about plans to create affordable housing by putting in new construction with, say, 7.5 foot ceilings and a lack of amenities. In contrast, if you build new upscale housing, while it may well decline in relative price as it gets older and more bedraggled, it’s less likely to turn into an outright slum in the future whose undesirable tenants drag down the property values of neighbors.

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  1. “but a few decades later when it’s aging and dingy it’s likely to become a real slum.”

    Does it even take that long? It seems to me it can happen well inside a decade, even before any natural aging and dingy-ness sets in.

    (Blaming age and dingy-ness sounds awfully close to magic dirt-ism!)

    • Replies: @Barnard
  2. 3. An exterior door in your bedroom.

    • LOL: Bubba
  3. OT: In the Department of Who Could Not Have Seen This Coming, we have:

    Human resources study shows a stunning unintended backlash to the ‘Me Too’ movement

    aka Mike Pence was right.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
    , @Anon
  4. Barnard says:
    @Almost Missouri

    As a general rule it is a good idea to never buy a house that is on the same block as an apartment building. Even if it is a smaller, well maintained property when you look at it. There is too much risk in it.

    • Agree: Travis
    • Replies: @Anon
  5. Anonymous[305] • Disclaimer says:

    To care about lowered property values is to reveal that you don’t have enough money to live in a place where that’s impossible.

  6. tyrone says:

    Another meaning: there goes the neighborhood.

    • Replies: @The Wild Geese Howard
  7. gunner29 says:

    Just provide overdoses of whatever drug the poor want. End of problem!

    50 years ago, Daniel Patrick Moynihan was HUD boss. His bunch of clowns studied low income housing and found out there was no way to provide it except for the taxpayers funding it, or the market rate buyers paying 20% more to help the vermin.

    If the poor were conservative voters, the left would be clamoring for their destruction….

    • Replies: @AndrewR
    , @Colin Wright
  8. Michael S says:

    There’s nothing public-spirited about the YIMBY activists. Most of them are renters, itinerants, shitlibs and anti-Trump loons. They want cheaper rent for the 3 years they actually plan to stay. They love third-world immigration and want to bring it directly to your neighborhood. The YIMBY “groups” are international and well-funded like any other globalist shill operation.

    These people are ten times worse than the “affordable housing” activists who just want to subsidize a handful of minority tenants. They’re actively destructive and once the housing they want turns into awful slummy crime-magnets (as you correctly observe, but in practice it happens much faster, within 10-15 years) then they just move to a different neighborhood and start up the same act there.

    If you want this stuff in “your” backyard, then save up some money and get your own damn backyard, stop offering up everyone else’s.

    • Replies: @Bobba
  9. Anon[694] • Disclaimer says:

    In our area affordable housing means:

    1) Lots of townhouses and apartments amidst single family homes. Our local high school that was built for 1,500 kids now houses 3,000.

    2) An small parcel set aside by the Developer to allow “Habitats for Humanity” to build their ugly tiny homes, all built by volunteers.

    The woke city council got the diversity they wanted. A few months ago, we had the first shooting in the neighborhood. A diverse tenant of an apartment shot her boyfriend in front of their kid after an argument. I guess our sleepy little town is now “vibrant”.

    • Replies: @Rosie
  10. My childhood middle-class neighbourhood turned into a slum by the replacement of its original population by those from other slums. If HHS has its way, slum folk will be moved into the hinterlands rather than projects, and in the process turn further red counties purple and blu rather than keeping the damage limited to the big cities. The GOP really needs to drop abortion and get on top of this if they can even hope to survive.

    • Replies: @Sleep
    , @Almost Missouri
    , @Anon
  11. Jimi says:

    In defense of #2) most housing is not expensive because of construction costs but because scarcity due to strict zoning laws.

    All new housing is marketed as “luxury housing” and luxury just really means new fixtures and appliances. Today’s “luxury housing” will become tomorrow’s middle class housing.

    Affordable family formation requires loosening zoning laws to create more housing. Of course this only makes sense if you also limit immigration.

    I recommend red state govts override blue city zoning laws to create more housing, cheaper housing. Cheaper housing will encourage fecund GOP-voting couples to move into cities.

    • Agree: ScarletNumber
    • Replies: @midtown
  12. angloNorm says:

    In Manhattan, the luxury vs affordable distinction can be oddly building by building. Some buildings are just known for supporting high psf prices with large footprints while the neighboring address might be [ perpetually ] dominated by small, cheaper apartments. This is most noticeable in recently gentrified areas.

  13. 9In my frank opinion everything went wrong when boomers like me screwed up everything in the 60s. I was born in 1946. I just had one child.Even now me and my family enjoy very high standards of living.
    We had a typical Upper Middle Class upbringing in the suburbs of Orange County. Don’t know why I fell for that jerk called “Jerry Rubin”. It was in the 1960s that strict racial equality became official state dogma. This dogma has been pushed by academia, Hollywood, and the news media with increasing vigor since then. We were told that the plight of blacks in the United States was due to their mistreatment by Whites, so the cure was to give them a temporary leg up by affirmative action and free housing.
    I have Swiss , Basque, Bavarian and Dutch ancestry. My wife is half German and half English.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
  14. J.Ross says: • Website

    Dave Rubin describing Berkeley joins James Ngo in Oregon noting that Antifa have apparently lost their minds in dread of the election. Apparently in Olympia, they’re feeling much like the devil; something burns inside of them. Does Berkeley still have the same mayor who encouraged window-smashers, and ordered his police to stand down lest Ann Coulter pay a visit?

    • Replies: @Oleaginous Outrager
  15. Bubba says:

    3. “Affordable Housing” means that illegal immigrants making $15 a day picking produce, day laborer, working in “Diversity Approved” restaurants or on taco trucks they can return at night to sleep on a floor in a studio apartment along with 30 other illegal floor-mates in a drug-infested Section 8 complex.

    All you have to do is prove that you don’t make more than $27,500 a year and you can get one of these wonderful “Affordable Housing” apartments! As long as you are working for an illegal employer you are OK!

  16. say, 7.5 foot ceilings and a lack of amenities

    Low Inca housing.

    • Replies: @F0337
  17. Carol says:

    I just discovered “shared ownership” via comments to the Guardian article someone linked here. You buy say a 50% interest from the builder, who retains the rest. Lots of fees and restrictions, but lower entry cost. Two sellers at closing. Gad.

    This is in the UK. But is this going on here yet? Sounds like a recipe for another Housing Holocaust, esp in the sand states.

  18. anon[133] • Disclaimer says:

    Isn’t the first type a scam? I thought the lucky tenants – who may or may not be the friends, relatives or donors of activists or local politicians – sublet their places at market rates.

  19. Tiny Duck says:

    How does it feel knowing that your neighborhoods will be invaded and that your daughters will give birth to children who look nothing like her u

    You guys are do fake old and have failed miserably on every adoec of life you are vhokdksss sinkgje whie men who madturbste to shine

    You have no reflex fur your women or r run your country

    All you guys do is notch and mown and n the computer and look at lorn

    You urge never known the tough of a woman

    You are virgins I am to but at least I
    Don’t irr End to be a tight guy

  20. @Tiny Duck

    Tiny, please take your sweat socks off before attempting to type with your big toes.

    • LOL: Rosie, jim jones
  21. The second option is far more preferable. The problem you describe is really tied to poor demographics. In a country with homogenous European population, even poor areas have very low crime rates and social dysfunction, certainly in the Nordics.

    In general, it is better to solve the root causes of an issue rather than trying to do it suboptimally through secondary and tertiary policies.

    • Replies: @Rosie
    , @Michael S
  22. @tyrone

    Body Count or Sheryl Crow version?

  23. We live in a cabin in the woods.

    Which is nice, because we burn wood for heat. So in a way, it’s utilities included.

    When there’s no zoning or building codes, that’s affordable housing.

    Those zoning laws, the building codes – what a farce! Supposedly to keep out “substandard” housing. So people live and shit on the streets.


  24. new construction with, say, 7.5 foot ceilings

    This would have a disparate impact on the Dinka and the Tutsi. Hell, it would have a literal impact on many of them.

    • Replies: @Hamlet's Ghost
  25. Sleep says:
    @The Alarmist

    We are …. Ben Carson is working behind the scenes to reverse Obama’s Section 8 reforms that helped cities export their underclass to rural white areas. But it’s a difficult fight since most HUD employees are liberals and perhaps a majority are black.

    • Replies: @The Alarmist
  26. Rosie says:

    2) An small parcel set aside by the Developer to allow “Habitats for Humanity” to build their ugly tiny homes, all built by volunteers.


    • Replies: @The Anti-Gnostic
  27. @The Alarmist

    This is something I’ve wondered about for along time. What is the optimal geographic solution for underclass populations in advanced countries?

    France had a policy of sequestering them in dead-end edge city banlieues. This had the virtues of limiting their depredations on other neighborhoods, minimizing the amount of land subject to underclass blight, and making the underclass community more easily managed when in a state of civil unrest. It seems to have worked pretty well for the French until recently when the quantity of the underclass just became too great for the designated space. Whether this was due to too many people, not enough construction, or rather some change in the administrative regime (e.g., a French version of AFFH), I don’t know.

    The analogous situation in the US was the South before desegregation. But whereas the French solution was primarily an urban solution, the Southern solution was primarily a rural solution. (An interesting tangent question is why France didn’t come in for the same kind of criticism as the US South did despite having essentially the same program. French panache distracted would-be critics?) The US Southern solution came to an end when Northern busybodies forced an end, first with warfare and later with lawfare backed by federal troops. Since then, the Southern strategy has been to encourage the surplus population to move to Northern cities.

    The US Northern strategy has been to deny that they need a strategy while madly dithering about behind the scenes. In practice, this meant allowing underclass in-migration to big cities, and then abandoning a neighborhood once a certain tipping point was reached. As this affected mainly poorer–and often Catholic–Northerners, it didn’t bother the Protestant and Jewish elite too much.

    Nevertheless, the working class urban–often Catholic–political machines were bothered, and after a generation of displacement and dispossession, Northern cities started trying to craft an effective policy in the 1960s, the fruits of which were banlieue-like housing projects.

    This created a French-style equilibrium for another generation or so, but the lunatic subsidization of the the underclass’s higher birthrates meant that this state of affairs could not last.

    I can’t think that US has tried any solutions other than laissez-faire, which sorta worked in the age of private segregation and restrictive covenants, and then didn’t work after that, and then the French solution, which more or less worked until the political parties stopped looking at the underclass as a problem to be solved and started looking at them as an opportunity to be exploited.

    Since then we’ve had the madness you describe of of one party using the underclass to drive out and impoverish the other party’s voters, while the other party’s donors reap the benefit of ever increasing housing prices in an ever churning market.

    Whatever the ultimate answer is, the first step would seem to be to get the parties to stop using the underclass as weapon, and to get at least one of them to start taking the side of its own voters.

    • Replies: @Anon
    , @Anon
    , @The Alarmist
    , @Anon
  28. dvorak says:
    @Backwoods Bob

    Those zoning laws, the building codes – what a farce!

    There’s something even better for homeowners than zoning: private zoning (master-planned cities).

    Orange County, or at least the former Irvine Ranch, is a wonderland of private zoning. Master-planning means the land goes straight from private ranch owner to builders who agree to deed-restrict every plot. There’s no going back from a deed restriction.

    (Even better, have the builders sign up every plot to an HOA that answers upward to a master HOA. There’s at least one city in Orange County where every resident, from studio-apartment-dweller to custom-estate-baron, is governed by a local HOA that’s part of a single master HOA).

    New construction is either on old military bases or on rezoned commercial land. And the only reason for homeowners to be happy about / not throw a fit about rezoned commercial land is to fend off affordable housing lawsuits by putting up the least-offensive form of affordable housing, senior citizen apartments.

    tl;dr: Private zoning (i.e. master-planning) is a lot more ironclad than blue-city zoning. The result is the same, high prices.

    • Replies: @Anon
    , @anarchyst
    , @Jim Don Bob
  29. Anonymous[760] • Disclaimer says:

    YIMBYism isn’t a real political movement (in the sense of having any constituency). It’s basically a couple dozen SWPL centrist democrats on twitter, who aesthetically are attracted to city life, and don’t have kids.

    Actual POC (the movements theoretical beneficiaries) aren’t interested in zoning policy or urbanism.

    • Replies: @dwb
  30. @Backwoods Bob

    Do you burn wood for internet too?

    • Replies: @International Jew
  31. Rosie says:
    @Thulean Friend

    In general, it is better to solve the root causes of an issue rather than trying to do it suboptimally through secondary and tertiary policies.

    I agree. One of the reasons people want bigger/more expensive housing is because it keeps out the raff. In a homogeneous society, I suspect people would be content with much simpler, more modest housing, perhaps even housing that could be purchased with (gasp!) cash. Oy vey!

    • Replies: @Anon
    , @DuanDiRen
  32. Michael S says:
    @Thulean Friend

    High density housing begets liberalism. Liberalism begets itinerancy. Itinerancy begets open borders.

    It is better to solve the root cause. That’s why rural and suburban communities rushed to implement zoning laws. They knew what would happen if the population density grew too high.

    • Agree: RadicalCenter
  33. Bobba says:
    @Michael S

    There’s nothing public-spirited about the YIMBY activists. Most of them are renters, itinerants, shitlibs and anti-Trump loons. They want cheaper rent for the 3 years they actually plan to stay.

    Your post just described most of the renters in the lower half of the entire Hollywood Hills. They are collectively out of their fucking minds, and they all talk amongst themselves to plan what new load of shit they’re going to dump on their councilman’s lap for the week. Their Facebook group is run by, and for, angry, unmarried middle-aged women, and a few crazy guy man. Too many of them are transplants from other states, all are renters, but know exactly how our neighborhood should be run.
    All they do is work their shitty jobs, if they have one, decry “greedy” landlords, go to local council meetings with their complaint de jour, and maliciously correct the politically incorrect.
    After a few years, they move, and are replaced with another crazy baby import, often from NYC, the shithole they helped maintain, then ran from. And don’t get me started about the rwenty-something year old men here, walking their toy poodles, with their skinny arm around their obese girlfriends.

    • Replies: @Anon
    , @Mike1
  34. Rosie says:
    @Backwoods Bob

    When there’s no zoning or building codes, that’s affordable housing.

    The building codes have to go. It doesn’t matter if they make theoretical sense or not. We’re not a middle-class country anymore and we simply cannot afford housing built to a code devised for one.

  35. Jay K. says:

    “Black a block” was extensively applied, and was absolutely effective. If they misbehaved, they were outnumbered from the get-go.

    Basically an “assimilate to modern civilization, or go to jail” approach that worked extremely well. One of the worst things to happen to American blacks in their entire history was abandoning that strategy. It allowed a majority of American blacks to have one foot stuck in the cotton fields for generations. It feels almost as if progressive democrats planned it that way, but I’m not that cynical.

  36. @Jim Don Bob

    I’m looking forward to a sudden backlash against Human Resources. (Part 2 and Part 3)


    • Replies: @Anon
  37. Anon[257] • Disclaimer says:
    @Jim Don Bob

    Back in the good old days HR was payroll. That’s all. Now they’re like soviet commissars and Maoist style leaders of criticism sessions. When does any work get done?

    I know, on Saturdays and 5-9 after the HR feminazis go home.

    With all this eating lunch at desks and getting in early and leaving late, so as not to waste time one would think management would cut down on the brainwashing sessions and other HR c**p.

    • Agree: Desiderius
  38. Anon[694] • Disclaimer says:

    Libtards are hellbent on bringing homelessness, poverty and crime to upper middle class suburbs(but not the real richie rich neighborhoods for the billionaires). Now that the woke SJWs are running out of apartments to rent downtown, they want to send all the downtown trash heap to the suburb so they can take over former slums and “gentrify” them with their gay little cafes, restaurants and tattoo parlors.

    The fact that the ghetto trash will now trash up the nice suburbs and their kids’ schools with their diversity is just bonus.

    The fact that the formerly GOP voting upper middle class suburbs are now DNC majority thanks to all the diversity is the real icing on the cake, perhaps even the plan to begin with.

  39. @Guilty Boomer

    Jerry Rubin?!


    Sentences will be 5 years of Steve Sailer archives and two years of Peak Stupidity, to be served concurrently. Bailiff, escort this boomer out of my comment section!

  40. Anon[257] • Disclaimer says:
    @The Alarmist

    As I always say,

    Anti abortion=Anti White

    Pro abortion=Pro White

    Planned Parenthood is screaming for donations to fight the evil anti abortion Kavanaugh and Trump. Take away the liberals biggest cause

    • Replies: @Redneck farmer
    , @Trevor H.
  41. Anon[257] • Disclaimer says:

    Most affordable Senior housing in California goes to immigrants.

    • Replies: @3g4me
  42. If “affordable housing” is keeping a rich area at least partially poor, the converse is “economic development” – making poor areas less poor.

    I live in a city that still pays lip service to this. It seems to have two purposes:

    1) Infrastructure and contracting payoffs to minority political power-brokers, and

    2) Making blighted areas sufficiently attractive to get some gentrification started.

    Almost no one takes seriously the ostensible justification for it – the idea that it will make the poor people in poor neighborhoods less poor. “Still poor, but a little less crappy” is about the most idealistic it gets.

  43. istevefan says:

    …by putting in new construction with, say, 7.5 foot ceilings…

    I thought the standard building material for US homes was the 4×8 foot sheet of drywall. Who makes new homes with 7.5 foot ceilings? I suppose I’ve seen some homes with finished basements where the ceiling is probably less than 8 foot. But I can’t recall seeing a new home’s main floors that don’t have 8 foot ceilings, or higher in cases of vaulted ceilings.

    • Replies: @Jim Don Bob
  44. Anon[257] • Disclaimer says:
    @Almost Missouri

    Southern sheriffs used to call it Greyhound Parole. When the brothas got out of hand they’d get a Greyhound or train ticket north and told not to come back.
    And of course the capitalists like Henry Ford and the rest actively recruited them. The auto industry was considered incredibly progressive and saintly for hiring so many blacks

    And looked what happened to what was once one of the greatest cities in the world, not just the USA.

    • Replies: @ScarletNumber
  45. Anon[131] • Disclaimer says:

    This is such a wrong take. Nobody cares about housing of any kind at any price. What they don’t want are blacks and Hispanics living nearby. Black and Hispanic cultural and inborn trashiness is what brings down the neighborhood, not the structures.

  46. Anon[694] • Disclaimer says:
    @Almost Missouri

    A few years back The Economist had an article about how the urban poor aka blacks are increasingly moving to the suburb, while (liberal) whites are moving back to city centers. Here in the Seattle area we have suburban cities like Renton, Federal Way, Kent, Des Moines etc. that are basically heavily black, hispanic or immigrant communities. The schools are bad and most upper middle class families prefer to live further up north in the Eastside(of Seattle), namely the cities of Bellevue, Redmond, Kirkland, Issaquah and Sammamish.

    But in the last 5 years thanks to the tech boom there has been enormous expansion in the Eastside. Now apartments and town houses are everywhere, with “planning committees” that no one elected screaming “urgent need” for more “affordable housing” for the very low income and low income, seniors, teachers and such. The real goal is to allow all those who live in the shit holes down south to be able to move into the nice suburbs up north to dilute the GOP stronghold, screw up our schools the way they screwed up theirs down south, and bring us their crimes.

    The fucking social engineers just can’t bear the thought of letting people live where they can afford to live, must find every way to mix people up, so no one can escape poverty, homelessness and crime in America, esp. the conservative stronghold in the nice suburbs.

    • Replies: @Anon
  47. anarchyst says:

    HOAs are a direct result of the prohibition of restrictive covenants…and are used to keep subdivisions “clean”…

  48. @Almost Missouri

    “I can’t think that US has tried any solutions other than laissez-faire ….”

    Depending on who you listen to, the US solution was to break up the families, have the CIA flood the cities with heroin and crack, turn a blind eye to weapons proliferation, and see where the chips fell. What nobody counted on was how diversity pushes over a few decades would turn the racist machine into a MOG that would be used to bludgeon the majority into submission.

  49. @Sleep

    Thanks for noting it is HUD … I had HHS on the mind for some reason, probably the refugee resettlement racket.

  50. Anon[257] • Disclaimer says:

    The real goal is to infest your neighborhood with Somalians. They roam the alleys in Capitol Hill jumping the back fences and burglarizing the houses. Serves the liberal Sawant lovers right.

    • Replies: @jim jones
    , @Tim
  51. Anon[257] • Disclaimer says:

    Someone explained to me the more people in a block the more visitors there would be and just more of everything including crime.

    If there is an apartment on a block that means the neighborhood’s zoned for apartments and as houses are sold more apartments will be built

  52. AndrewR says:

    Is it necessary to call all poor people vermin? Perhaps you’re projecting.

    • Replies: @Anon
  53. @J.Ross

    Do people not know the flatlands of Berzerkeley, especially around *shudder* Berkeley High, have always been “diverse” and therefore dangerous?

  54. Anon[257] • Disclaimer says:
    @Achmed E. Newman

    I read the link. They can’t possibly have a written test as that would be discriminatory wouldn’t it.

    Aren’t there second interviews where the applicant talks to a person who’d be the actual unit head anymore?

    Microsoft has intensive question interviews with several managers of the department applicant will be working in

    Nephew had 7 interviews for a Silicon Valley job kind of like Pilgrim’s Progress. He quit after 18 months because of the 95 hour weeks. Now he has his own business, 30 hour weeks for the same net income.

    Friend was in sales. She always seemed to work in start ups. They’d hire sales people and after a year turn their accounts into house accounts. So she needed a new job every 3 years.

    She could always tell she had the job when the interviewer said “ we usually stay till 8 or 8/30 will that be a problem?”

    You’re supposed to say “ of course it’s not a problem I have no family no friends no interests I’d just love to work 12 hours a day for 8 hours pay.”

    Workers of the world unite!!!!!

  55. F0337 says:
    @Jenner Ickham Errican

    Honestly, it’s what occurred to me right away. The vast majority of our third-world immigrants are short so why waste the height?

  56. F0337 says:
    @Steve Sailer

    Actually, that was one of his better efforts. Thunderbird kickin’ in an’ all.

  57. black sea says:
    @Tiny Duck

    That ain’t just booze talking. You need to stay out of the medicine chest.

    • LOL: Colin Wright
  58. Anon[131] • Disclaimer says:

    One of the reasons people want bigger/more expensive housing is because it keeps out the raff.

    This could be accomplished by small housing on larger plots, allowing for nice gardens like in the U.K. … as long as you don’t live in California where water is rationed and larger users are doxed and shamed.

    • Replies: @Rosie
    , @JMcG
    , @boxty
  59. Anon[257] • Disclaimer says:
    @Almost Missouri

    Unlike the French we made the mistake of putting the projects right in the middle of the city including close to downtown. The English did what we did. Interesting when native English lived in the projects they didn’t destroy the entire neighborhood. But then something happened. Crapologists are still studying how and why those neighborhoods deteriorated. There are entire Crap Studies departments in universities pondering this. What could have happened?

  60. Anon[257] • Disclaimer says:

    What some poor people do to neighborhoods is worse than what rats and raccoons do. But you can kill rats and raccoons. Vermin’s a little strong. I prefer Obsolete Farm Equipment

    Pronounced OFEE

  61. I lived in a city for a while that was supposed to be a bedroom community of Phoenix, like Fountain Hills or Anthem. It was going that way up until someone in City Hall got the bright idea to virtue signal and fill unsold houses (this was during the 2006 housing crash) with Katrina refugees. Crime shot up but this was considered such a success that they repeated the process several times until they were voted out.

    Afaik many of the Katrina types and the following waves are still on Section 8. What could have been a nice city hit a fucking tree because someone had to virtue signal.

    • Replies: @Trevor H.
  62. Anon[257] • Disclaimer says:

    It’s those liberal New Yorkers who ruined California. They swarmed out here starting 1965 or so when the oldest red diaper babies finished college. I’m real familiar with them. Their arrogance is unbelievable. Move to town and before they even find a job or apartment they’re circulating petitions and forming committees to change things for the worse.

    I live amongst Persians. They have their faults and live in their immigrant bubble but at least they’re not liberals. They’re only concerned with making money by hook or crook and don’t try to save the world.

  63. @anon

    It’s more of a scam in the sense that the winners are poor people with political connections, but they do live there. It’s generally against the regulations to sublet

  64. @Anon

    And the US auto industry, for that matter

  65. @Rosie

    A guy on a local talk show made the point it’s illegal to be poor any more. He pointed out that in most areas, you can’t build a small house with limited utilities, it doesn’t meet building codes.

    • Replies: @Rosie
  66. @Anon

    I once interviewed for a teaching position where the principal asked me point blank what sports I would be willing to coach. I told him that the only place I would ever coach would be an orphanage. He laughed and thanked for my honesty, but I didn’t get the job.

    • Replies: @Mark G.
  67. @Anon

    The problem is, it isn’t abortion, it’s “choice”. A woman’s “choice”. No, you don’t get a choice, and the guy who impregnated you doesn’t get a choice to avoid sterilization if he can’t afford the abortion or child support.
    Then again, I’m considered extreme.

  68. @gunner29

    ‘…If the poor were conservative voters, the left would be clamoring for their destruction….’

    That’s already happened. What do you think the reference to ‘deplorables’ was all about?

  69. Trevor H. says:

    In the immortal words of Kang and Kodos, “Abortions for All!”

  70. jim jones says:

    Romanian gypsies in the UK:

  71. Trevor H. says:
    @Jack Hanson

    What could have been a nice city hit a fucking tree because someone had to virtue signal.

    It’s been known to happen to entire countries.

  72. Realist says:

    Developers complain but they often wind up going along with these demands, even though it means a big subsidy from their full-price renters/buyers to the lucky few who get “affordable” places.

    Which they write off of their taxes,.

  73. @Steve Sailer

    No, lay off, Steve: that’s Tiny’s best post ever. It has the inimitable not-quite-random humorific power of Chinese signage that’s been google translated directly from Chinese characters to English.

    • Replies: @dwb
  74. Rosie says:

    This could be accomplished by small housing on larger plots, allowing for nice gardens like in the U.K. … as long as you don’t live in California where water is rationed and larger users are doxed and shamed.

    Exactly. Most subdivisions have ridiculous covenants dictating square footage. They are deliberately calculated to prevent people of modest means building small houses in desirable areas. Of course, they wouldn’t mind living with people of modest means if they could have a say in who exactly those people are.

  75. Rosie says:
    @Redneck farmer

    A guy on a local talk show made the point it’s illegal to be poor any more. He pointed out that in most areas, you can’t build a small house with limited utilities, it doesn’t meet building codes.

    And of course all of this has a disparate impact on Whites. NAMs just have children whether they have secured acceptable housing or not. Asians and Jews can afford artificially expensive housing. It’s mainly Whites whose birth rate will be suppressed by this.

    • Replies: @Anon
  76. JMcG says:

    My township had one acre minimum lot zoning until the lawyers from Toll Brothers got involved.

  77. @Rosie

    Building codes are so fires don’t race thru a complex after the local vibrancy all pass out from their chicken wings, weed and booze and leave the grease cooking on the stove. Or so buildings don’t collapse when a sleazy landlord throws up inadequate framing and doesn’t bother to check occupancy rates or subleasing.

    I get you’re point that we’re not a middle class country any more, but we’re not a self-reliant, self-governing country any more, either.

  78. @anon

    Some locality around here built affordable housing for teachers, cop, firemen, etc., because it was important for some unknown reason that they live in the city they worked in. More than a few stayed where they were and rented out their property. No one was punished.

  79. @dvorak

    HOAs are very common in Houston which has no zoning laws.

  80. @istevefan

    My neighbors finished their entire basement quite nicely but could not legally count it as square footage when they sold the house because the ceilings were less than 8 feet.

  81. boxty says:

    There is a military housing development in the Linda Vista neighborhood of San Diego from the 1970′s. The surrounding privately owned homes are pretty run down but the military housing is spotless and maintained like it was when brand new. Even the landscaping is kept up. You can see it on Google Maps street view.

    Maybe HUD should be collapsed into the DoD because they seem better at affordable housing???

    I had a pollster call about some proposition in San Diego to boost low-income housing. One of the questions stated that the subsidy for low income housing on new construction is about $30k per unit right now and that they want to increase it to $100k per unit. I said hell no.

  82. boxty says:

    This could be accomplished by small housing on larger plots, allowing for nice gardens like in the U.K. … as long as you don’t live in California where water is rationed and larger users are doxed and shamed.

    San Diego had no drought because the voters approved a desalination plant a while back. But they were forced to cut back water usage with the rest of the state anyway for some insane reason. To add insult to injury, water rates went up to cover the bond payments because the decreased water consumption lowered the revenue to the desalination plant.

    Desert landscaping (xeriscaping) is now popular in southern California. Think succulents and rock lawns.

    • Replies: @Anon
  83. The Pewitt Plan to increase AFFORDABLE FAMILY FORMATION for young members of the European Christian ancestral core of the United States is simple.

    1) Immediately jump the federal funds rate to 20 percent; and 2) immediately begin mass deportations of most of the foreigners who have infiltrated the United States.

    (Got to give the Israeli propaganda guys credit for the use of the word INFILTRATORS. I love that damn word!)

    There could also be massive increases in property taxes on the local and state level on all property owned by foreigners. Grab that loot from the foreigners.

    Other nations are doing this, the USA should too.

    The Finance — Insurance — Real Estate guys such as Trump would howl like rabid dogs, but a collapse of the real estate bubble is needed to promote AFFORDABLE FAMILY FORMATION for young White Core Americans.

  84. Mike1 says:

    The quality of the roads in the Hollywood Hills amaze me. Very expensive houses, huge taxes and the roads look like a neglected part of Mexico.
    I often wonder if there is a single person with any real sense of ownership that lives there.

    • Replies: @dwb
  85. @Anon

    Crapology. That’s a good way to describe sociology. Human beings are crap and we make a mess. Others then go study it.

  86. Robert S says: • Website

    I agree with the aspects of immigration restriction and bad urban policies and their effects on family formation but NIMBYS who are primarily Boomers don’t adress the issue of providing housing for White Millennials.

    As discussed here the key is combining aspects of YIMBYism with immigration restriction and ending other bad urban policies such as busing.

    The extreme social, economic, and aesthetic inequality in LA
    Social problems caused by mass immigration, Neoliberal economics, and sprawl oriented development
    Robert’s article Building a Based Urban Middle Class SWPL Utopia
    Sane urbanist solutions to right wing grievances such as White flight
    The political ironies of gentrification as re-colonization of urban areas
    Family formation and reasons for declining demographics such as housing and education
    How these social problems are now impacting the upper middle class demographically
    An Alt-Center must offer solutions that cater to urban needs
    Building a political movement based on aesthetics with visions for new urban communities
    The hypocrisy of pro-immigration liberal elite NIMBY’s
    How combining YIMBY policies with immigration restriction will gradually rebuild the urban middle class

  87. @Anon

    And then their children became Republicans and moved out of CA, leaving us heritage Californians with the mess. See? I’m back to my former comment to you (if you’re the same Anon) about us humans making messes all the time.

    Oh, what is this Persia you speak of? If I wanted to live in Iran, I’d try to move there.

    • Replies: @Anon
  88. @Anon

    Aren’t there second interviews where the applicant talks to a person who’d be the actual unit head anymore?

    Sure, 257, (though it’s been a while for me). It’s just that you still have to get past the HR department first. It’s like a big roadblock. It’s especially bad when it involves completely computerized resume processing. If you don’t put down one thing with the right wording, lettering, whatever, you’ll never hear back and you’ll never know why either.

    Yes, you’re right about the written test – Griggs vs. Duke Power or something like that.

    What is Pilgrim’s Progress, BTW?

    Workers of the world unite!!!!!

    I don’t like the sound of that. Workers of the world just have to get their shit together, that’s all. Save money, don’t live paycheck-to-paycheck*, so you don’t have to hold onto every job for dear life. If you’ve got a year or two’s living worth of savings and no payments, you’ll have a lower stress level and can produce a little blowback against the PC crap.

    * More here.

    • Replies: @Anon
  89. Mark G. says:

    So many public schools having teachers double as coaches has had a detrimental effect in schools. They have to go out and hire former high school athletes who know a lot about the sport they’ll be coaching. Knowledge of or enthusiasm for the subject matter being taught then takes a backseat to the ability to double as a sports coach. I had a few ex-jock high school teachers who were quite good but most of the really bad or mediocre teachers I had were also in that category. My father was a high school teacher who managed to escape coaching because he taught physics and there was a shortage of those. Most former high school athletes who go into teaching shy away from the more difficult math and science subjects and end up teaching the social sciences or the easier science subjects like “health education”.

    • Replies: @ScarletNumber
  90. “Affordable housing” is a prototypical liberal scam.

    Want “afforbable housing”?

    – Stop immigration.

    – Let the builders build.

    Doesn’t matter what they build. “Luxury homes”–some well off people move in, less well off people buy their house, upper middle class people buy their house, middle class people buy their house, working class people buy their house …

    Anyone with the slightest familiarity with “the market” can figure this out. Larger supply, lower prices.

    Likewise if you stop insanely importing people–lower demand, lower prices.

    Of course, liberals are against both of these, yet for “affordable housing”. Yeah right.

    No all these “afforable housing” “advocates” and “activists” are simply parasites who insert themselves–with their hand out–in the middle of the regulatory process. Every dollar they get, every bit they eat is coming by raising the overall cost of housing (and/or taxes) and making housing less affordable.

    • Agree: dwb
    • Replies: @Anon
    , @Achmed E. Newman
  91. @Rosie

    The irony of building codes as practiced in the US is that “built to code” is no guarantee at all of a well built house.

    Were it not for all of the court decisions striking down freedom of association of one sort or another, it would indeed be possible to have neat, clean and crime free single wide mobile home communities.

  92. Asdf says:

    Any building at all in some places is a hostile act. Malibu for example. Boulder,CO is a no build city, as well, for less exalted example.

  93. Real estate in america is like contemporary art: it’s expensive because it’s expensive. That is, if the property value is high enough you can keep the vibrants out. Once the basics like indoor plumbing are taken care of, keeping the vibrants out is the most valuable amenity a property can have. The condition of the property, quality of construction, style, etc., are all of secondary importance.

  94. 20 years back Clinton and his crew had a crazy theory that moving ghetto blacks next to good blacks would make the ghetto people good.

    They did it in a rust belt city in Michigan that was about to get hammered 6 years later by GM–we didn’t realize how bad at the time.

    I had some minor legal role in the deal. They forced the sale of a chunk of city land next to the center of an old and very nice black union autoworker and upper middle class professional area. The professionals knew what was coming and tried to fight, but Clinton’s HUD threw money at the pastors and they screwed them.

    It destroyed the area.

    I stopped having any work in the city after GM closed or sold off all but one plant there. A friend still does work there and I did some stuff for her a few months back in the area. Not only do the 8 and 42 complexes look like they are 80 years old and never been maintained, but the houses are run down or abandoned.

  95. @Rosie

    I think those struggle-huts are great. I could live in one, but then I recall things like a public sewer system. I wouldn’t relish sharing a ditch latrine with my fellow struggle-hutters.

    Darby Kittel (look him up) seems to have his heart in the right place but I’d like to ask him about waste disposal. It doesn’t seem to feature very prominently in any of his online stuff.

  96. @Tiny Duck

    It’s clear that you had a stroke in the middle of typing this, but pushed through till the end anyway. I admire your courage.

  97. There has been some sort of news blackout on what Carson is up to at HUD.

    When appointed he almost immediately found accounting discrepancies of hundreds of billions of dollars… memoryholed. Then the attempted takedown about office furniture. He resisted, it went away. Then something about undoing Obama section 8 policies (AFFH). That went silent too.

    Has he been neutralized by Obama’s minions inside HUD? Doing something momentous best kept under the radar? Two years of near silence is really strange.

  98. dwb says:
    @The Last Real Calvinist

    Jimmy James, Macho Business Donkey Wrestler.

  99. dwb says:

    You seem to think that the horrible, confusing roads are a bug. They are a feature.

    Winding, potholed roads that end in bizarre cul-de-sacs are effectively a barrier to tourists from Kansas driving their giant Chrysler Voyager minivans around looking for the Hollywood sign or gawking at houses up towards Coldwater Canyon.

    • Replies: @Anon
  100. Buck says:

    This country is absolutely full of affordable housing, if you concentrate on “country”. Jobs in rural areas are the biggest problem but that is solved easily by either 1) becoming a professional as they are always paid more, 2) having/creating an internet enabled job 3) working in the medical/educational industrial complexes or 4) starting your own service business serving the wealthy.

    The rural South, Midwest and Mountain West have the best quality of life. It’s a simple life where one spends much of the time out of doors. It’s easy to find red states and redder counties. Housing in Appalachia is incredibly affordable and beautiful with four real seasons.

    Making housing affordable in cities is relatively simple. Reduce demand and increase supply. The native population of the United States is reproducing below replacement level so just restrict immigration. Then eliminate zoning. Building codes for safety are fine but unnecessary beyond that.

  101. Anon[257] • Disclaimer says:

    The reason Asians can afford expensive housing is that they can crowd 30 people in a 2,000 sq from house and run some kind of illegal poultry slaughter house or sewing factory in the garage.

    What’s interesting about zoning and building codes is that they’re never enforced against non White immigrants, just White Americans

  102. Anon[257] • Disclaimer says:

    Try Bel Air. It’s one place I use GPS.

  103. Anon[257] • Disclaimer says:
    @Achmed E. Newman

    Pikgrim’s Progress is a very famous book by a guy named Milton 1600s I think. It’s a saga journey thing but spiritual. The Pilgrim has many obstacles but finally achieves his goal

    Saving money is hard when the car you need to get to work costs so much. AAA claims 80% car expenses for commuting. We go into debt to get to work.

  104. @Mark G.

    If you recall the Tom Cruise/Craig T Nelson high-school football drama All the Right Moves, the football coach’s nominal job was typing teacher. Driver education and physical education are also popular.

    Locally, a public high school was able to lure a successful Catholic high school football coach by offering him a full-time teaching position. It was unstated if the job was created specifically for him or if there just happened to be an opening he could fill.

  105. Anon[257] • Disclaimer says:

    All NGOs aka grant hustlers are like that. 89% of their budget goes for administrative costs their salaries.

    All they do is insert themselves between the government agency employees and the citizens. The government employees do all the work they always did and the NGO parasites just putz about, go to an occasional meeting and spend most of their time writing more grant proposals

    Europe has been infected with do gooder grant hustlers. But at one time it was just straight socialism. If there’s a need, the government does it. Don’t give more tax payers money to several NGOs to pretend to do whatever it is.

  106. @AnotherDad

    Whoa, dude, your Libertarianism is triggering the bejeesus out of me. MAKE! IT! STOP!

  107. GMR says:

    Here in Connecticut, we have an affordable housing law known as 8-30g. It has created a lot of really weird effects.

    8-30g says that if a town (and all of CT is towns, there are no counties, and there are 169 towns or cities) has less than 10% of its dwelling affordable, then the town is subject to 8-30g. Affordable means the rent is no more than a certain percentage of median income. So if a town is subject to 8-30g, then a developer can build whatever they want on a property if 30% of the units in the building are “Affordable”. Developers still need to follow wetlands regulations, but zoning laws on setbacks, density, etc. no longer apply, automatically. The town zoning board can do nothing. Affordable doesn’t mean NAMs moving in, it’s more just slightly poor really. Apartments that are affordable are still 800 per month or something. The big fear is actually school costs going up.

    So in Ridgefield, where I live, here’s what’s happened.

    1) Schlumberger, the oil company, had a corporate campus here. They abandoned it because it wasn’t needed, and tried to sell it. The town bought it so a developer wouldn’t and build a bunch of apartments. Then the town sold it off piecemeal to developers who were going to put in age restricted units (no kids, yeah!). The town kept a theater designed by Philip Johnson, who designed a glass house in New Canaan but has fallen out of favor because he thought Hitler was pretty cool.

    2) The town sewer needs upgrading. One proposal is to spend $48 million but not increase capacity by a single turd; the other is to spend something like $55 million to double the capacity. Everyone wants the first option, because no sewer might stop future development.

    3) The biggest developer, a liberal Democrat, is on the board of selectmen.

    4) There’s a shit ton of age restricted apartments going up. Only open to those 55 or older. The town loves them because they pay property taxes but have basically no kids. Then the people in them start voting down all the school budgets…

    5) Traffic is pretty crappy. Not that it was ever that great, but the town was first settled in the 1720s or something, so there are few turn lanes, and some of the four way intersections are off kilter, so the streets are not lined up. Really weird small windy streets.

    6) School enrollment is plummeting because people are having much smaller families or staying put after the kids go to college. Big employers like GE have abandoned the state with crazy liberal democrats in power at the state level.

    • Replies: @ScarletNumber
  108. Anon[257] • Disclaimer says:

    Beverly Hills and all of West Los Angeles is a Persian colony. BH has a separate school system. The thug children of the help aren’t allowed to live in BH. The help has to domicile it’s thug children elsewhere. It’s an investment against the day when no White is permitted to work at any job or own a business in the state.

    BH real estate is a bit less expensive than the rest of west Los Angeles and close to the 99 cent stores where I do a great deal of my shopping

  109. @Anon

    Yes, the French were (initially) smart enough not to sacrifice any important real estate. I’m not sure how the US cities came to put housing projects on what would otherwise have been prime real estate. Absence of a plan? Early virtue signalling? Maybe early tenants were not so bad. New England, e.g., Boston, still has a few all white housing projects, which while nothing especially desirable, are worlds away from the run down hellscapes of black housing projects.

  110. Anon[257] • Disclaimer says:

    There are environmental plumbers who can hook up pipes to washing machine dishwasher sinks and bathtub so it goes outside and waters your garden. I’ve no idea how much it costs.

    Instead of ugly native plants I ripped up all the grass and planted penny royal caminole thyme and baby tears . The penny royal took over. It looks like a green lawn. Geraniums need very little water

    Liberals like those drought gardens therefore I don’t like them. Also they are ugly

  111. @Anon

    Bunyan, not Milton.

    • Replies: @Jim Don Bob
  112. dwb says:

    The YIMBY folks here in San Francisco are, as the saying goes, pretty much bat-shit crazy. One of them suggested to me that the housing “crisis” (blamed for all the social ills that are not laid at the feet of imagined white tech bros coming to the city from the University of Illinois) could be solved by simply building 50,000 housing “units” every year for 10 years. He did not say exactly where an additional half million such units will be built in a city of 50 square miles.

    But they are trying to organize. One of the formerly, but increasingly less, “vibrant” areas has an interesting race for supervisor (a county-level position, but as SF is simultaneously a city and county) where you have the typical country club communist “progressive” white guy, a more classical and ultimately more pragmatic standard Democrat black woman, and a nutty YIMBY activist (of course, a 30 year old single white chick who I guess will leave her half dozen cats in her studio apartment to go to the meetings if she wins).

  113. midtown says:

    You’ll still have the bad schools issue. You need zoning choice and school choice.

  114. 3g4me says:

    @41 Anon[257]: “Most affordable Senior housing in California goes to immigrants.”

    The local (DFW area) subsidized senior apartments, which used to be mixed but had some White residents, became almost entirely Indian and Chinese immigrants within the last 5-10 years. Residents were notified they could no longer post Christmas decorations on their doors. Our church’s Christmas donation list, before we left said church, was over half Chinese (names of the ‘needy’ who need not be Christian provided by local bureaucrats). Reason #1278 we no longer support any charities.

    • Replies: @Jim Don Bob
  115. @Anon

    I’ve heard of the book, but just didn’t know what you were referring to. Thanks.

    As to your last paragraph, I’ve not seen any families or single people that couldn’t handle their money a lot better. Hold off on ANY extras until you get somewhat solvent. Who do you know that really does that? With all the people at the coffee shops and restaurants that I see, I don’t believe it’s anyone.

    Mrs. 257, I’ve seen lots of people in poor economic situation still be too proud to ask the price on a small item, and walk away if it’s a bad deal. On the vehicles people are even more stupid about things. Americans will learn eventually though. AAA doesn’t know a thing about taking care of cars. They just want to sell insurance, and you’d better read the fine print on the towing.

    BTW, I’m totally OT now, but I had a friend who was pissed at AAA for screwing him on something to do with their insurance plan. He got his perfectly good car towed 100 miles down the interstate to our friend’s house to visit, just to screw them back! That’s hilarious, IMO.

  116. @Reg Cæsar

    They used to grow impressive Afros on their heads, which must have been great shock absorbers. Perhaps it’s time to retro the Afro.

  117. San Francisco can be mitigated. Just build a triple-track each way, one-stop bullet train from Frisco to Oakland, let Oakland handle the skyscrapers, and let nature take its course.
    Make a “go fund me” page for the project, and let Bezos and his friends and underlings fund it.

  118. DuanDiRen says:

    Rosie, I live in an ethnically homogeneous south east Asian country, with famously little zoning. People here judge real estate based on commute times and commercial potential (people run shops out of the front room of their house, or rent the first couple of floors out as offices).
    My wife and I just bought a nice two bedroom apartment in a lovely development with swimming pool, playgrounds, badminton courts, &etc, and a 25 minute bus ride to my job.
    It was $51,000.

  119. @3g4me

    The only charity I support is the Salvation Army. All the others are self-perpetuating rackets.

  120. @GMR

    There’s a shit ton of age restricted apartments going up. Only open to those 55 or older. The town loves them because they pay property taxes but have basically no kids.

    These should be illegal.

  121. Tim says:

    I thought it was odd you saying Somalians are roaming Captiol Hill burglarizing people, so I looked it up . . . Ahhhh, you mean Captiol Hill, Seattle.

    Now all the pieces fit.

  122. Anonymous[509] • Disclaimer says:

    The French were neutral in the Cold War from the late 60s onward and didn’t have to worry about their city centers getting nuked.

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