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From the New York Times:

Shudder …

From left, the brothers Pavlo, Ivor, Davyd and Peter Davydyuk packing up materials and props for a church camp where they are counselors in Vancouver, Wash. The Davydyuk family arrived from Ukraine in May. Credit Leah Nash for The New York Times

Soviet-Era Program Gives Even Unoppressed Immigrants an Edge
By MIRIAM JORDAN AUG. 26, 2017

VANCOUVER, Wash. — Growing up in the 1970s and ’80s in Ukraine, then part of the Soviet Union, Halyna Davydyuk was bullied by classmates and by teachers, who forced her to sit in the last row because she was an evangelical Christian. Her father was jailed for his beliefs.

Today, she said, “there’s not a lot of persecution, but it’s difficult to find work.”

Normally, someone seeking better prospects in the United States would wait several years to be admitted. But Ms. Davydyuk, her husband, their seven children and a daughter-in-law arrived here in Vancouver in May just two years after applying. They joined a growing number of Ukrainians who have streamed into the United States in recent months even as the country has closed the door on other refugees.

What distinguishes the Davydyuks, who are Pentecostal, from other immigrants is a program created nearly three decades ago to benefit those who suffered from religious persecution in the Soviet Union, where the Communist Party hounded religious groups it could not control. …

Nearly 4,000 Ukrainian refugees were admitted to the United States in the first 10 months of this fiscal year, compared with 2,543 for the entire 2016 fiscal year and just 227 four years ago. Their 2017 numbers are dwarfed by arrivals from the Democratic Republic of Congo, Iraq, Syria, Somalia and Myanmar. But since May 1, as the Trump administration began to restrict admissions of refugees, Ukraine has accounted for the second-largest number of arrivals, behind only Congo.

 
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  1. Im a Ukrainian immigrant to NA, been here 15 years. I’ve worked and contributed, currently employed in the oilfield.

    Although I agree with SSailer’s viewpoint on immigration to this fine land, a thought bothers me. Am I not part of the same diluent that is dissolving the north american white anglosphere?

    I’d like to think of myself as better than “irregular” Somalis, but the main purpose for my family’s initial move was better economy. Does that make me yet another diverse locust?

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    Hungary is famous for rejecting immigrants. But I think the government just made it easier for Ukrainians to immigrate. Nobody opposed this. You just figured it out yourself: you guys are quite different from Somalis.

    I guess it would still be a problem if there was ever a chance of Ukrainians becoming a majority in any country other than Ukraine, but it's not even likely in Hungary.
    , @SFG
    If your story is as you say, I wouldn't have any guilt.

    First of all, assuming you came over legally, you're not breaking any laws. I wouldn't get too worked up over the idea you're some sort of contaminant. Live your life and do your thing. The fact that we might need less immigration right now doesn't mean that every single person who immigrates is doing something wrong.

    Second of all, given your hypothetical kids' complexion, they'll probably assimilate into mainstream culture. If anything they will shore up the armies of those defending American culture. Most of the Midwest is a quarter German, a quarter Polish, a quarter Italian, and another quarter German anyway.

    So I wouldn't worry about it.

    Unless, of course, you're Jewish. In that case just do the exact same thing, but don't tell the other commenters. ;)
    , @Michelle
    I am Ukrainian, in part. Also Russian and Finnish. In blog posts, some people have told me that I would be better off living under Putin and that I should go back to Russia. Strange days indeed, most peculiar, Mama!
    , @Lot
    Welcome aboard!
    , @Thomm
    The Nationalist-Leftists will first say that you are welcome, but with very little prodding, they turn against what they consider to be 'lesser' whites, such as Irish, Italians, Ukrainians, etc.

    So if you just scratch the surface, you will see their true colors.

    Fortunately, most Americans are not Nationalist-Leftists, so we have no problem with skilled, legal immigration.
    , @Olorin

    Does that make me yet another diverse locust?
     
    Yes.

    But there's likely something innate in you/your people that suggests you will quickly take the role of something far more evolved in our society.

    Not all locusts can say that coming in. They come from dust and create nothing but.

    I went to school with refinery town Yukes. Good people. Had an Orthodox girlfriend for awhile.

    Slava Isusu Christu! Slava Na V'iki!

    , @Anonymous
    You probably are not part of the problem. If you hold a job, stay out of jail, don't commit crimes and learn English well and don't do anything disgusting I am very disinclined to object to you.

    I have no interest in learning Ukrainian, but Russian-maybe? German has been tough enough for me and it shares our alphabet (besides adding umlauts, those gifts to heavy metal, and the Eszett) but Russian has a huge technical literature, electronics, MiG service manuals, all sorts of stuff...
    , @Lurker
    I'm not American so it's not for me to say but the only people who would even claim to find your presence problematic here (UK) would be the kind of liberal who wrote the article. And even then they wouldn't act on it - it's all talk. It wouldn't affect where they lived or sent their kids to school.
    , @Altai
    Almost all immigration take resources from and dilute social and political cohesion among the pre-existing population. Only people like Richard Spencer are foolish enough to cock their head at why English people objected to mass immigration from white countries in addition to other places. Compared to the native populations, Slavic immigrants to Western countries from the old Warsaw pact are highly ethnocentric and have less qualms about using welfare programmes (I have a sister in law who saw nothing wrong with abusing the already generous Danish maternity leave, for example, it is an attitude typical of a great many people from Eastern Europe residing in Western Europe) as well conduct ethnic nepotism such as helping each other find jobs etc. All mass injections of labour will increase unemployment and lower wages of the natives, who did nothing wrong except expect to not have to work for the normal market rate in their home country not something between that and Poland. These people also compete for housing resources which is by far the biggest hit towards native family formation and well-being. Now imagine this going on for nearly 20 years... The Eastern European immigrants aren't evil or out to screw over the natives, but they are unavoidably competing with them all the same, what obligation has the host society to allow this if it becomes too much?

    Try not to take it personally, think of it this way, if nobody had stopped European immigration to the US in the 1920s would the country have become more unequal, ethnically fractured and unhappy or moreso? There were no Somalis among those immigrants back then. Do you think Donald Trump would be swayed by people saying that his German ancestor would never have got in after this? Because it's not an argument about making the future better for Americans. All Western countries have well done their duty to helping immigrants at this point, time to stop.

    The people who try to reduce immigration are trying to build a better life for themselves and their children too.


    Otherwise:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=73GOfY0Ab9g
    , @Perspective
    I'm part Ukrainian myself, and I think we assimilated rather seamlessly into British Canada. Many of the people I grew up with were a mixture of Ukrainian background (usually on the mother's side) and British background. I personally would love it if more Ukrainians and other East Europeans came here, it would at least slow European demographic dispossession.
    , @Frau Katze
    I'm a Canadian. I personally would have no problem with you immigrating to Canada.

    I'm not as strict on immigration as many. I'm fine with far east Asians and subcontinentals (India/Pakistan), except if they're Muslims.

    No doubt that many Muslims are fine people but we can't tell the nutjobs from the non-fanatics. Plus Islam is plain toxic.

    That said, we shouldn't accept so many in such a short time that infrastructure (including medical care) are affected. Thanks to wildly permitting huge numbers to come here in a short time, we have already seen has this effect.

    And yes, a large influx does drive down wages. We need to slow down the rate.
    , @Terry Gross
    your children will be neurotic about their cabbage and beet eating dad, your grandchildren will disappear into the great soy mass of americana.

    Somalians will still be chimping 3 generations in.
  2. Nearly 4,000 Ukrainian refugees were admitted to the United States in the first 10 months of this fiscal year, compared with 2,543 for the entire 2016 fiscal year and just 227 four years ago. Their 2017 numbers are dwarfed by arrivals from the Democratic Republic of Congo, Iraq, Syria, Somalia and Myanmar. But since May 1, as the Trump administration began to restrict admissions of refugees, Ukraine has accounted for the second-largest number of arrivals, behind only Congo.

    Call me crazy, but I vastly prefer taking in Ukrainians to admitting Iraqis, Syrians, Somalis, Congolese……

    • Agree: reiner Tor, Bubba, schmenz
  3. • Replies: @larry lurker
    Wow. They wiped the comments, the rating - even the view count.

    The message: "We'll let you watch this, but do realize you're the only freak interested in this stuff."

  4. Obama’s administration tried in vain to kick these people out. Ultimately decided against it when it got a lot of headlines at Fox and Brietbart.

    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-26454988

  5. Young Eastern European men. Mmm, not bad at all.

    • Replies: @Alden
    Tall, slim with broad shoulders, high cheekbones, gorgeous. Please come.
  6. @Engage_PoopChutes
    Im a Ukrainian immigrant to NA, been here 15 years. I've worked and contributed, currently employed in the oilfield.

    Although I agree with SSailer's viewpoint on immigration to this fine land, a thought bothers me. Am I not part of the same diluent that is dissolving the north american white anglosphere?

    I'd like to think of myself as better than "irregular" Somalis, but the main purpose for my family's initial move was better economy. Does that make me yet another diverse locust?

    Hungary is famous for rejecting immigrants. But I think the government just made it easier for Ukrainians to immigrate. Nobody opposed this. You just figured it out yourself: you guys are quite different from Somalis.

    I guess it would still be a problem if there was ever a chance of Ukrainians becoming a majority in any country other than Ukraine, but it’s not even likely in Hungary.

    • Replies: @J
    The Ukrainians coming to Hungary are ethnic Hungarians, and most speak some Hungarian. Hard working, God fearing, good people, and by the way, no antisemites.
  7. US Immigration policy since 1965 :

  8. NYT:

    Jewish Refuseniks: Da
    Christian Dissidents: Nyet

    Should be clear… “Refusenik” has “wretched refuse” written all over it.

    Program should be expanded to non-Muslims, Jews, Christians & Seculars fleeing state of war & chaos in Western Europe.

    • Replies: @njguy73

    Jewish Refuseniks: Da
    Christian Dissidents: Nyet

    Should be clear… “Refusenik” has “wretched refuse” written all over it.
     
    I can imagine Christian Europeans getting circumcised and growing beards so they can pass as Jews or Muslims.
  9. If they were to beat their wives and daughters and make them wear their burqas on the one other hand, the NYT would find them much less objectionable.

    • Replies: @SFG
    Honestly, they have to vote Democrat. It really is that blatant.

    Jews, nonwhites, Muslims, gays...all vote Democrat, and so the NYT likes them as refugees. White Christians...vote Republican.

    It's the whole tribal-affiliation module every human (without Asperger's) has kicking in. Kicking out religion just means people go looking for other ways to say 'my team' and 'their team', and politics is a popular one as it can lead to a post in Democratic administrations if you're a journalist.

    It was kind of funny reading the article trying to watch the writer swing back and forth. Wait...they're refugees...that's good. Wait...they're Christians...that's bad.
  10. OT

    If I were Stephen Miller, I wouldn’t wait to get fired. Why give them the satisfaction? Better to resign now. Then work for America First agenda from outside government.

    http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/348112-dem-rep-on-gorka-exit-2-down-and-1-to-go

    • Replies: @Lot
    It is sad to see Gorka fired, but Trump is so erratic he may rehire Bannon and all the Brietbart people in a few months.
    , @SFG
    We'll see if his, ah, background protects him. I could see it going either way. Some liberal journalist is going to goof and call him a Nazi, which will buy him a little time.

    That said he could always drop the immigration issue and go do something else for the duration. He does seem to be a true believer, but if he figures he isn't getting anywhere, he might try to kiss up to Kushner or something.

    Or he can always go back to music. I think his advocacy of humor and midnight marijuana use should endear him to the left.
  11. What distinguishes the Davydyuks, who are Pentecostal, from other immigrants is a program created nearly three decades ago to benefit those who suffered from religious persecution in the Soviet Union, where the Communist Party hounded religious groups it could not control

    The Jews must find it especially galling that the program created for them is now being used to bring in evangelicals (who they hate even more than Muslims)

    • Replies: @njguy73

    The Jews must find it especially galling that the program created for them is now being used to bring in evangelicals (who they hate even more than Muslims)
     
    Jerry Falwell never called for my head to be sawed off with a scimitar.
    , @Corn
    "The Jews must find it especially galling that the program created for them is now being used to bring in evangelicals (who they hate even more than Muslims)"

    What program? A program to admit Soviet Jews to America? Never happened. Ever. Just ask Julia Ioffe
    , @Anonymouse
    Jews do not hate evangelicals. I know this for a fact because I'm a jew and I don't know one jew who has ever expressed hatred for evangelicals. And how many jews do you know, and how many have expressed the hate you say they feel? Could it be that you're talking out your posterior?
    , @Harry Baldwin
    Do Jews hate Muslims? I'm always reading about reform rabbis reaching out to the Muslim community, supporting them when they want to build a new mosque, and marching shoulder-to-shoulder with them against "hate." Liberal Jews seem to see them as natural allies. I just saw a little propaganda video on the net, an interview with a Jew in his 90s who talked about being in the concentration camps, and how horrific it is to see nazis now marching in America and spreading hate. An example of the hate he gave was right-wingers who want to keep out Muslims. That made me suspect the whole interview was phony.
  12. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    Of course there was a certain tribe who pushed our Soviet refugee legislation into effect some time ago. So, if one were to have doubleplus ungood thoughts, they might suggest that if there was favoritism for refugees from there, it is an unintended side effect from a certain zeal for this tribe’s own to immigrate, and look into why that should have occurred, if they are the primary ones lecturing us that the only way to be a good white is to leapfrogging loyalties.

    But, frankly it’s a positive side effect. We’re much better off to get Eastern European Christians if we do have to take refugees, than the ‘tired of work, huddled masses with machetes on trains’ we might get from Syria, Somalia, etc..

  13. I guess according to NYT it makes more sense to bring in African perennial welfare addicts and suicidal Muslim bombers into our country than peaceful white Christians who are trying to work.

    Who is the one being discriminated against by race and religion again?

  14. @Engage_PoopChutes
    Im a Ukrainian immigrant to NA, been here 15 years. I've worked and contributed, currently employed in the oilfield.

    Although I agree with SSailer's viewpoint on immigration to this fine land, a thought bothers me. Am I not part of the same diluent that is dissolving the north american white anglosphere?

    I'd like to think of myself as better than "irregular" Somalis, but the main purpose for my family's initial move was better economy. Does that make me yet another diverse locust?

    If your story is as you say, I wouldn’t have any guilt.

    First of all, assuming you came over legally, you’re not breaking any laws. I wouldn’t get too worked up over the idea you’re some sort of contaminant. Live your life and do your thing. The fact that we might need less immigration right now doesn’t mean that every single person who immigrates is doing something wrong.

    Second of all, given your hypothetical kids’ complexion, they’ll probably assimilate into mainstream culture. If anything they will shore up the armies of those defending American culture. Most of the Midwest is a quarter German, a quarter Polish, a quarter Italian, and another quarter German anyway.

    So I wouldn’t worry about it.

    Unless, of course, you’re Jewish. In that case just do the exact same thing, but don’t tell the other commenters. ;)

  15. @Anon
    OT: http://www.returnofkings.com/129050/this-is-the-first-video-to-be-sandboxed-by-youtubes-censorship-alliance-with-the-adl

    Wow. They wiped the comments, the rating – even the view count.

    The message: “We’ll let you watch this, but do realize you’re the only freak interested in this stuff.”

    • Replies: @SFG
    They're going to have to do a better job than that. My inner 14-year-old just went, "I have to find more of these."
  16. @Engage_PoopChutes
    Im a Ukrainian immigrant to NA, been here 15 years. I've worked and contributed, currently employed in the oilfield.

    Although I agree with SSailer's viewpoint on immigration to this fine land, a thought bothers me. Am I not part of the same diluent that is dissolving the north american white anglosphere?

    I'd like to think of myself as better than "irregular" Somalis, but the main purpose for my family's initial move was better economy. Does that make me yet another diverse locust?

    I am Ukrainian, in part. Also Russian and Finnish. In blog posts, some people have told me that I would be better off living under Putin and that I should go back to Russia. Strange days indeed, most peculiar, Mama!

    • Replies: @SFG
    Just tell them you're Ukrainian (in real life). They are 'on our side' and hence good. Most people won't be able to tell Ukrainian from Russian accents anyway. Heck, they can't tell Polish from Russian accents.
  17. I mean, what’s the use supporting Trump anymore? Turns out, Donald Trump had two weaknesses. One, just like a patriarch in a family business — which he is, come to think of it — relying too much on family. Jared and Ivanka did a good job exploiting that weakness. No longer do they have explain to their Upper East Side friends why the mean men Bannon, Gorka (and soon Miller) haven’t been fired yet.

    Two, his feelings of guilt over not having served in Vietnam while his peers went and died. Resulting in a desire to “make amends” and a need for validation by military men. Gen. Flynn (gone — replaced by Gen. McMaster), Gen. Mattis, Gen. Kelly got in because of that need.

    Man got played like a fiddle. All that’s left now is that he is not Hillary. That isn’t going to change, so be thankful for small favors.

    • Replies: @SFG
    The perfect is always the enemy of the good.

    The man has too many flaws to count, and I don't even mean in terms of positions on issues. But he needs restrictionists--they're the only ones who still like him. The Overton window is not moving much further to the left on immigration while he's president. Even so-so things are sometimes worth defending.
  18. @Liberal hypocrisy
    If they were to beat their wives and daughters and make them wear their burqas on the one other hand, the NYT would find them much less objectionable.

    Honestly, they have to vote Democrat. It really is that blatant.

    Jews, nonwhites, Muslims, gays…all vote Democrat, and so the NYT likes them as refugees. White Christians…vote Republican.

    It’s the whole tribal-affiliation module every human (without Asperger’s) has kicking in. Kicking out religion just means people go looking for other ways to say ‘my team’ and ‘their team’, and politics is a popular one as it can lead to a post in Democratic administrations if you’re a journalist.

    It was kind of funny reading the article trying to watch the writer swing back and forth. Wait…they’re refugees…that’s good. Wait…they’re Christians…that’s bad.

    • Replies: @Thin-Skinned Masta-Beta

    Honestly, they have to vote Democrat. It really is that blatant.
     
    It's very reminiscent of the antebellum system gaming that went on with every instance of bitter conflict about expanding the Union. Each side feared adding another "free" or "slave" state would just tip the balance in favor of North or South. Now like the local tribal rivals that gave aid & comfort to Cortes and the Spanish conquistadors to ally against their hated Aztec oppressors, the left has been recruiting foreign ringers that they've got the revolution sewed up. They've now been gloating that the irreversible trajectory of demographics means inevitable completion of their mission to dispossess the previous economic & cultural establishment.
  19. @Michelle
    I am Ukrainian, in part. Also Russian and Finnish. In blog posts, some people have told me that I would be better off living under Putin and that I should go back to Russia. Strange days indeed, most peculiar, Mama!

    Just tell them you’re Ukrainian (in real life). They are ‘on our side’ and hence good. Most people won’t be able to tell Ukrainian from Russian accents anyway. Heck, they can’t tell Polish from Russian accents.

    • Replies: @Anon 2
    Polish, Czech, and Slovak accents in English are rather slight
    and vaguely Central European whereas Russian accents are
    very different, and instantly recognizable, at least to a European.
    Western Slavonic (Polish, Czech, Slovak, Lusatian, ...) languages
    and Eastern Slavonic ones (Russian, Ukrainian, ...) have
    completely different pronunciation systems, although Ukrainian
    is closer to Polish, and has often been described as "Polonized
    Russian" since Western Ukraine (and Belarus as well) have been
    for centuries within the Polish cultural realm. For 200 years or
    so the eastern border of the vast Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth
    lay 50 miles from Moscow, not through conquest but through
    a personal union between the rulers of Poland and Lithuania.
  20. @Thin-Skinned Masta-Beta
    NYT:

    Jewish Refuseniks: Da
    Christian Dissidents: Nyet

    Should be clear... "Refusenik" has "wretched refuse" written all over it.

    Program should be expanded to non-Muslims, Jews, Christians & Seculars fleeing state of war & chaos in Western Europe.

    Jewish Refuseniks: Da
    Christian Dissidents: Nyet

    Should be clear… “Refusenik” has “wretched refuse” written all over it.

    I can imagine Christian Europeans getting circumcised and growing beards so they can pass as Jews or Muslims.

  21. @larry lurker
    Wow. They wiped the comments, the rating - even the view count.

    The message: "We'll let you watch this, but do realize you're the only freak interested in this stuff."

    They’re going to have to do a better job than that. My inner 14-year-old just went, “I have to find more of these.”

  22. @DFH

    What distinguishes the Davydyuks, who are Pentecostal, from other immigrants is a program created nearly three decades ago to benefit those who suffered from religious persecution in the Soviet Union, where the Communist Party hounded religious groups it could not control
     
    The Jews must find it especially galling that the program created for them is now being used to bring in evangelicals (who they hate even more than Muslims)

    The Jews must find it especially galling that the program created for them is now being used to bring in evangelicals (who they hate even more than Muslims)

    Jerry Falwell never called for my head to be sawed off with a scimitar.

    • Replies: @SFG
    If you're commenting here, you're probably not part of the problem. Unless your other identity is 'Tiny Duck'.
  23. In 1997, actor/comedian Bill Cosby’s son was shot in the head and killed by 18-year old Ukrainian immigrant Mikhail Markhasev during a robbery/carjacking in LA.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Ennis_Cosby

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    A pretty horrible and memorable example of white-on-black violent crime. Ennis Cosby was driving on the 405 to the San Fernando Valley, got a flat tire, pulled over near Mulholland Drive, and this carjacker murdered him.

    By the way, this tragedy probably preserved Bill Cosby's reputation for another 15 years. It totally eclipsed questions about a scandal involving Cosby in the news.

    , @Anonymous
    Ukrainians are far from being angels, e.g. Ukrainian mafia was infamously active in Prague and Warsaw in the 90s, but Markhasev was a Ukrainian Jew. Wikipedia does not see fit to mention this.
  24. @yyrvjh
    I mean, what's the use supporting Trump anymore? Turns out, Donald Trump had two weaknesses. One, just like a patriarch in a family business -- which he is, come to think of it -- relying too much on family. Jared and Ivanka did a good job exploiting that weakness. No longer do they have explain to their Upper East Side friends why the mean men Bannon, Gorka (and soon Miller) haven't been fired yet.

    Two, his feelings of guilt over not having served in Vietnam while his peers went and died. Resulting in a desire to "make amends" and a need for validation by military men. Gen. Flynn (gone -- replaced by Gen. McMaster), Gen. Mattis, Gen. Kelly got in because of that need.

    Man got played like a fiddle. All that's left now is that he is not Hillary. That isn't going to change, so be thankful for small favors.

    The perfect is always the enemy of the good.

    The man has too many flaws to count, and I don’t even mean in terms of positions on issues. But he needs restrictionists–they’re the only ones who still like him. The Overton window is not moving much further to the left on immigration while he’s president. Even so-so things are sometimes worth defending.

  25. @njguy73

    The Jews must find it especially galling that the program created for them is now being used to bring in evangelicals (who they hate even more than Muslims)
     
    Jerry Falwell never called for my head to be sawed off with a scimitar.

    If you’re commenting here, you’re probably not part of the problem. Unless your other identity is ‘Tiny Duck’.

    • Replies: @njguy73
    I've commented here regularly for the past two years. We've even exchanged a few replies.

    No, I'm not Tiny Duck. That guy needs to be banned.

    I was commenting on how as a Jew, I feel much less threatened by any Christian movements than by any Islamic movements. I may find Christian fundamentalism distasteful, but I don't feel in danger from it.

    Now is that clear?

  26. @Engage_PoopChutes
    Im a Ukrainian immigrant to NA, been here 15 years. I've worked and contributed, currently employed in the oilfield.

    Although I agree with SSailer's viewpoint on immigration to this fine land, a thought bothers me. Am I not part of the same diluent that is dissolving the north american white anglosphere?

    I'd like to think of myself as better than "irregular" Somalis, but the main purpose for my family's initial move was better economy. Does that make me yet another diverse locust?

    Welcome aboard!

    • Agree: Frau Katze
  27. On the one hand, admitting Ukrainian Pentecostal Protestants as a persecuted minority sounds positively quaint, a relic of Cold War. Not only they are not being persecuted in the modern Ukraine, one of the nation’s most powerful leaders (some say the most powerful, a grey cardinal) is a Pentecostal pastor.

    On the other hand, this is not the the biggest or the most dangerous Cold War relics. People in Washington, DC seem to think that big bad Communist USSR is still with us; only the Cold War frontiers had inexplicably shifted to the east. Giving immigration preferences to Ukrainian Protestants is not the worst consequence of this delusion.

    By the way, from the article: “Ms. Davydyuk, who spoke in Russian through an interpreter, said…” Spoke in Russian, not in Ukrainian. This is typical.

    • Replies: @AP

    By the way, from the article: “Ms. Davydyuk, who spoke in Russian through an interpreter, said…” Spoke in Russian, not in Ukrainian. This is typical.
     
    They might simply have used a Russian-language rather than Ukrainian-language interpreter.
  28. @Engage_PoopChutes
    Im a Ukrainian immigrant to NA, been here 15 years. I've worked and contributed, currently employed in the oilfield.

    Although I agree with SSailer's viewpoint on immigration to this fine land, a thought bothers me. Am I not part of the same diluent that is dissolving the north american white anglosphere?

    I'd like to think of myself as better than "irregular" Somalis, but the main purpose for my family's initial move was better economy. Does that make me yet another diverse locust?

    The Nationalist-Leftists will first say that you are welcome, but with very little prodding, they turn against what they consider to be ‘lesser’ whites, such as Irish, Italians, Ukrainians, etc.

    So if you just scratch the surface, you will see their true colors.

    Fortunately, most Americans are not Nationalist-Leftists, so we have no problem with skilled, legal immigration.

    • Replies: @Cagey Beast
    By "Nationalist-Leftist" I'm assuming you mean people on the Alt-Right to White Nationalist side of the spectrum? If so, your claim is inaccurate, in my opinion. They consistently express the opposite in fact.
    , @Lurker

    Fortunately, most Americans are not Nationalist-Leftists, so we have no problem with skilled, legal immigration.
     
    Who's this 'we'?
    , @nebulafox
    Don't generalize. I'm a protectionist nationalist who is perfectly fine with legal, skilled immigration that is congruent with the national needs of the United States during the given time period.

    (Eh, on second thought, I don't even know what I am anymore, so whatever. I guess a Rhenish capitalist of sorts comes close. Does that fall into that Nationalist-Leftist spectrum?)

    , @Alden
    Obviously you are not in medicine, dentistry, accounting, engineering, computers, scientific research or any other occupation both the government and employers are in the process of turning over to skilled educated immigrants and excluding White Americans.
  29. @yyrvjh
    OT

    If I were Stephen Miller, I wouldn't wait to get fired. Why give them the satisfaction? Better to resign now. Then work for America First agenda from outside government.

    http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/348112-dem-rep-on-gorka-exit-2-down-and-1-to-go

    It is sad to see Gorka fired, but Trump is so erratic he may rehire Bannon and all the Brietbart people in a few months.

    • Replies: @Forbes
    Well, Trump was a fan of the late George Steinbrenner, so--you never know...
  30. @yyrvjh
    OT

    If I were Stephen Miller, I wouldn't wait to get fired. Why give them the satisfaction? Better to resign now. Then work for America First agenda from outside government.

    http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/348112-dem-rep-on-gorka-exit-2-down-and-1-to-go

    We’ll see if his, ah, background protects him. I could see it going either way. Some liberal journalist is going to goof and call him a Nazi, which will buy him a little time.

    That said he could always drop the immigration issue and go do something else for the duration. He does seem to be a true believer, but if he figures he isn’t getting anywhere, he might try to kiss up to Kushner or something.

    Or he can always go back to music. I think his advocacy of humor and midnight marijuana use should endear him to the left.

  31. @E. Rekshun
    In 1997, actor/comedian Bill Cosby's son was shot in the head and killed by 18-year old Ukrainian immigrant Mikhail Markhasev during a robbery/carjacking in LA.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Ennis_Cosby

    A pretty horrible and memorable example of white-on-black violent crime. Ennis Cosby was driving on the 405 to the San Fernando Valley, got a flat tire, pulled over near Mulholland Drive, and this carjacker murdered him.

    By the way, this tragedy probably preserved Bill Cosby’s reputation for another 15 years. It totally eclipsed questions about a scandal involving Cosby in the news.

    • Replies: @Yan Shen
    HBD discussions of crime have typically focused on race, but I've always wondered why Eastern and Southern Europeans seemed to be disproportionately more violent compared to their Northern European counterparts. In particular, certain Eastern European ethnicities seem to have a bit of a violent streak in them.

    HBD used to be more interesting in the days of Madison Grant, when one might discuss these kinds of further granularities. Alas, in our modern day 21st century American society, everything's just viewed through the simplistic prism of high level race. Black versus white. Fire versus ice. Night versus day. As opposed to say Northern, Southern, and Eastern European or East Asian, South Asian, and Southeast Asian, etc.

    Even Stormfront will supposedly ban you if you promote explicitly Nordicist points of view. Ironic how those guys are described as being modern day Nazis. Seems like the neo-Nazis are far kinder and more inclusive than were the actual Nazis of yore, what with uh Hitler attempting to conquer Russia and basically trying to wipe out the Slavic race...

    , @Alden
    It was immigrant mafia on American born citizen crime. Horrible.
    , @E. Rekshun
    By the way, this tragedy probably preserved Bill Cosby’s reputation for another 15 years. It totally eclipsed questions about a scandal involving Cosby in the news.


    "America taught our son's killer to hate African Americans," Camille Cosby, 07/08/98.
    , @Pachyderm Pachyderma
    Leave it Steve Sailer to find a silver lining in a grotesque tragedy...
  32. That visa system was only supposed to be for oppressed people. How DARE these unoppressed people try to take advantage of it

  33. @Engage_PoopChutes
    Im a Ukrainian immigrant to NA, been here 15 years. I've worked and contributed, currently employed in the oilfield.

    Although I agree with SSailer's viewpoint on immigration to this fine land, a thought bothers me. Am I not part of the same diluent that is dissolving the north american white anglosphere?

    I'd like to think of myself as better than "irregular" Somalis, but the main purpose for my family's initial move was better economy. Does that make me yet another diverse locust?

    Does that make me yet another diverse locust?

    Yes.

    But there’s likely something innate in you/your people that suggests you will quickly take the role of something far more evolved in our society.

    Not all locusts can say that coming in. They come from dust and create nothing but.

    I went to school with refinery town Yukes. Good people. Had an Orthodox girlfriend for awhile.

    Slava Isusu Christu! Slava Na V’iki!

  34. @Steve Sailer
    A pretty horrible and memorable example of white-on-black violent crime. Ennis Cosby was driving on the 405 to the San Fernando Valley, got a flat tire, pulled over near Mulholland Drive, and this carjacker murdered him.

    By the way, this tragedy probably preserved Bill Cosby's reputation for another 15 years. It totally eclipsed questions about a scandal involving Cosby in the news.

    HBD discussions of crime have typically focused on race, but I’ve always wondered why Eastern and Southern Europeans seemed to be disproportionately more violent compared to their Northern European counterparts. In particular, certain Eastern European ethnicities seem to have a bit of a violent streak in them.

    HBD used to be more interesting in the days of Madison Grant, when one might discuss these kinds of further granularities. Alas, in our modern day 21st century American society, everything’s just viewed through the simplistic prism of high level race. Black versus white. Fire versus ice. Night versus day. As opposed to say Northern, Southern, and Eastern European or East Asian, South Asian, and Southeast Asian, etc.

    Even Stormfront will supposedly ban you if you promote explicitly Nordicist points of view. Ironic how those guys are described as being modern day Nazis. Seems like the neo-Nazis are far kinder and more inclusive than were the actual Nazis of yore, what with uh Hitler attempting to conquer Russia and basically trying to wipe out the Slavic race…

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Southern Europeans in the U.S. (Italians and Greeks) have quite low violent crime rates. New Jersey and Long Island, for example, have a quite low murder rate.

    Northern Europeans in the U.S. probably have a higher violent crime rate than Northern Europeans in the U.S. due to binge drinking and fewer guns.

    , @S. Anonyia
    Is this true? Perhaps it was true in 1900 but I don't see it today.

    If you include British/Irish as Northern Europeans then Northern Europeans probably have a higher crime rate than Southern Europeans. In the U.S, whites in the South have higher violent crime rates than whites living around New York or New Jersey. You're probably right about Eastern Euros though.
  35. @SFG
    If you're commenting here, you're probably not part of the problem. Unless your other identity is 'Tiny Duck'.

    I’ve commented here regularly for the past two years. We’ve even exchanged a few replies.

    No, I’m not Tiny Duck. That guy needs to be banned.

    I was commenting on how as a Jew, I feel much less threatened by any Christian movements than by any Islamic movements. I may find Christian fundamentalism distasteful, but I don’t feel in danger from it.

    Now is that clear?

    • Replies: @SFG
    Oh, I know. I was trying to be supportive, ironically; pointing out that the fraction of Jews who read Steve and comment here is not the fraction the OP was ranting about.

    'Tiny Duck' was an attempt at humor. I kinda miss Corvinus; the guy actually bothered to construct an argument. Tiny Duck just tries to hit people's buttons (and makes offensive arguments no liberal would actually make).
    , @Alden
    Do you much about Christian fundamentalism? It's basically Hebrew bible Christianity. For instance their aversion to homosexuality is from Leviticus in the Hebrew bible. The Christian bible says nothing about homosexuality
    Some still follow John Calvin's statement "There is but one God, the G-d of Israel". The founders of the fun due sects proclaimed that Jesus was only the founder of Christianity, not God, the Jewish God.

    Fundy churches are extremely, extremely pro Israel and pro Jewish because the Hebrew bible told them so.

    In fact, the fundy churches are the greatest fans of Israel and Jews in the country.
  36. @DFH

    What distinguishes the Davydyuks, who are Pentecostal, from other immigrants is a program created nearly three decades ago to benefit those who suffered from religious persecution in the Soviet Union, where the Communist Party hounded religious groups it could not control
     
    The Jews must find it especially galling that the program created for them is now being used to bring in evangelicals (who they hate even more than Muslims)

    “The Jews must find it especially galling that the program created for them is now being used to bring in evangelicals (who they hate even more than Muslims)”

    What program? A program to admit Soviet Jews to America? Never happened. Ever. Just ask Julia Ioffe

  37. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Engage_PoopChutes
    Im a Ukrainian immigrant to NA, been here 15 years. I've worked and contributed, currently employed in the oilfield.

    Although I agree with SSailer's viewpoint on immigration to this fine land, a thought bothers me. Am I not part of the same diluent that is dissolving the north american white anglosphere?

    I'd like to think of myself as better than "irregular" Somalis, but the main purpose for my family's initial move was better economy. Does that make me yet another diverse locust?

    You probably are not part of the problem. If you hold a job, stay out of jail, don’t commit crimes and learn English well and don’t do anything disgusting I am very disinclined to object to you.

    I have no interest in learning Ukrainian, but Russian-maybe? German has been tough enough for me and it shares our alphabet (besides adding umlauts, those gifts to heavy metal, and the Eszett) but Russian has a huge technical literature, electronics, MiG service manuals, all sorts of stuff…

  38. @SFG
    Honestly, they have to vote Democrat. It really is that blatant.

    Jews, nonwhites, Muslims, gays...all vote Democrat, and so the NYT likes them as refugees. White Christians...vote Republican.

    It's the whole tribal-affiliation module every human (without Asperger's) has kicking in. Kicking out religion just means people go looking for other ways to say 'my team' and 'their team', and politics is a popular one as it can lead to a post in Democratic administrations if you're a journalist.

    It was kind of funny reading the article trying to watch the writer swing back and forth. Wait...they're refugees...that's good. Wait...they're Christians...that's bad.

    Honestly, they have to vote Democrat. It really is that blatant.

    It’s very reminiscent of the antebellum system gaming that went on with every instance of bitter conflict about expanding the Union. Each side feared adding another “free” or “slave” state would just tip the balance in favor of North or South. Now like the local tribal rivals that gave aid & comfort to Cortes and the Spanish conquistadors to ally against their hated Aztec oppressors, the left has been recruiting foreign ringers that they’ve got the revolution sewed up. They’ve now been gloating that the irreversible trajectory of demographics means inevitable completion of their mission to dispossess the previous economic & cultural establishment.

  39. @Yan Shen
    HBD discussions of crime have typically focused on race, but I've always wondered why Eastern and Southern Europeans seemed to be disproportionately more violent compared to their Northern European counterparts. In particular, certain Eastern European ethnicities seem to have a bit of a violent streak in them.

    HBD used to be more interesting in the days of Madison Grant, when one might discuss these kinds of further granularities. Alas, in our modern day 21st century American society, everything's just viewed through the simplistic prism of high level race. Black versus white. Fire versus ice. Night versus day. As opposed to say Northern, Southern, and Eastern European or East Asian, South Asian, and Southeast Asian, etc.

    Even Stormfront will supposedly ban you if you promote explicitly Nordicist points of view. Ironic how those guys are described as being modern day Nazis. Seems like the neo-Nazis are far kinder and more inclusive than were the actual Nazis of yore, what with uh Hitler attempting to conquer Russia and basically trying to wipe out the Slavic race...

    Southern Europeans in the U.S. (Italians and Greeks) have quite low violent crime rates. New Jersey and Long Island, for example, have a quite low murder rate.

    Northern Europeans in the U.S. probably have a higher violent crime rate than Northern Europeans in the U.S. due to binge drinking and fewer guns.

    • Replies: @Zach
    Any idea about the crime rates for Albanians, Croats, and Serbs?
    , @Yan Shen
    You may be right about different ethnicities in the US, but I was thinking more along global lines. For instance, you don't really hear that much about the British mafia or the Finnish mafia or the Canadian mafia, but Italian and Russian mobsters are very much in our national consciousness.

    Stereotypes aside, I tried to look up some actual numbers. I'm sure the methodology isn't super precise and it seems like different countries have different years that the data was reported for, but for intentional homicides per 100,000 people we have the following below. (Note, I assume intentional homicide by definition excludes failed murder attempts.)

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate

    Russia at 11.3 and Lithuania at 6 seem fairly high. Ukraine also comes in at 4.36. On the other hand Italy and Greece are fairly low at .85 and .78 respectively, so maybe the stereotype of Southern Europeans is a bit off, Italian mobsters aside.

    East Asian numbers also seem expected. Taiwan leads the pack at .82, while China and South Korea are both at .74. Japan is .31, Hong Kong .30, and Singapore .25. Many of the countries of Northern Europe are also within that range.

    The African and Latin American numbers are quite absurd, especially the latter, and don't surprise me that much. It is curious to note though that Russia would rank 9th out of the 56 African countries.

    Since Mr. Derbyshire seems deeply interested in the subject of differential crime rates, perhaps we can get an article from him one of these days analyzing why Russians and other Eastern Europeans seem to be significantly more violent than their other European counterparts, at times basically veering into black and Hispanic territory. Walking through the hood here in the states may not be all that safe, but honestly it seems like walking through large parts of Russia probably isn't either...

    , @kaganovitch
    "Northern Europeans in the U.S. probably have a higher violent crime rate than Northern Europeans in the U.S. due to binge drinking and fewer guns."

    A logical impossibility ,I'm afraid.
  40. @Thomm
    The Nationalist-Leftists will first say that you are welcome, but with very little prodding, they turn against what they consider to be 'lesser' whites, such as Irish, Italians, Ukrainians, etc.

    So if you just scratch the surface, you will see their true colors.

    Fortunately, most Americans are not Nationalist-Leftists, so we have no problem with skilled, legal immigration.

    By “Nationalist-Leftist” I’m assuming you mean people on the Alt-Right to White Nationalist side of the spectrum? If so, your claim is inaccurate, in my opinion. They consistently express the opposite in fact.

  41. @Thomm
    The Nationalist-Leftists will first say that you are welcome, but with very little prodding, they turn against what they consider to be 'lesser' whites, such as Irish, Italians, Ukrainians, etc.

    So if you just scratch the surface, you will see their true colors.

    Fortunately, most Americans are not Nationalist-Leftists, so we have no problem with skilled, legal immigration.

    Fortunately, most Americans are not Nationalist-Leftists, so we have no problem with skilled, legal immigration.

    Who’s this ‘we’?

  42. @Steve Sailer
    Southern Europeans in the U.S. (Italians and Greeks) have quite low violent crime rates. New Jersey and Long Island, for example, have a quite low murder rate.

    Northern Europeans in the U.S. probably have a higher violent crime rate than Northern Europeans in the U.S. due to binge drinking and fewer guns.

    Any idea about the crime rates for Albanians, Croats, and Serbs?

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    No.
    , @Pachyderm Pachyderma
    One hears about the Albanian mafia in the New York City but you can never tell with those people... there are a lot of wannabes around these parts.
  43. @Engage_PoopChutes
    Im a Ukrainian immigrant to NA, been here 15 years. I've worked and contributed, currently employed in the oilfield.

    Although I agree with SSailer's viewpoint on immigration to this fine land, a thought bothers me. Am I not part of the same diluent that is dissolving the north american white anglosphere?

    I'd like to think of myself as better than "irregular" Somalis, but the main purpose for my family's initial move was better economy. Does that make me yet another diverse locust?

    I’m not American so it’s not for me to say but the only people who would even claim to find your presence problematic here (UK) would be the kind of liberal who wrote the article. And even then they wouldn’t act on it – it’s all talk. It wouldn’t affect where they lived or sent their kids to school.

  44. @Engage_PoopChutes
    Im a Ukrainian immigrant to NA, been here 15 years. I've worked and contributed, currently employed in the oilfield.

    Although I agree with SSailer's viewpoint on immigration to this fine land, a thought bothers me. Am I not part of the same diluent that is dissolving the north american white anglosphere?

    I'd like to think of myself as better than "irregular" Somalis, but the main purpose for my family's initial move was better economy. Does that make me yet another diverse locust?

    Almost all immigration take resources from and dilute social and political cohesion among the pre-existing population. Only people like Richard Spencer are foolish enough to cock their head at why English people objected to mass immigration from white countries in addition to other places. Compared to the native populations, Slavic immigrants to Western countries from the old Warsaw pact are highly ethnocentric and have less qualms about using welfare programmes (I have a sister in law who saw nothing wrong with abusing the already generous Danish maternity leave, for example, it is an attitude typical of a great many people from Eastern Europe residing in Western Europe) as well conduct ethnic nepotism such as helping each other find jobs etc. All mass injections of labour will increase unemployment and lower wages of the natives, who did nothing wrong except expect to not have to work for the normal market rate in their home country not something between that and Poland. These people also compete for housing resources which is by far the biggest hit towards native family formation and well-being. Now imagine this going on for nearly 20 years… The Eastern European immigrants aren’t evil or out to screw over the natives, but they are unavoidably competing with them all the same, what obligation has the host society to allow this if it becomes too much?

    Try not to take it personally, think of it this way, if nobody had stopped European immigration to the US in the 1920s would the country have become more unequal, ethnically fractured and unhappy or moreso? There were no Somalis among those immigrants back then. Do you think Donald Trump would be swayed by people saying that his German ancestor would never have got in after this? Because it’s not an argument about making the future better for Americans. All Western countries have well done their duty to helping immigrants at this point, time to stop.

    The people who try to reduce immigration are trying to build a better life for themselves and their children too.

    Otherwise:

  45. @Zach
    Any idea about the crime rates for Albanians, Croats, and Serbs?

    No.

  46. @Steve Sailer
    Southern Europeans in the U.S. (Italians and Greeks) have quite low violent crime rates. New Jersey and Long Island, for example, have a quite low murder rate.

    Northern Europeans in the U.S. probably have a higher violent crime rate than Northern Europeans in the U.S. due to binge drinking and fewer guns.

    You may be right about different ethnicities in the US, but I was thinking more along global lines. For instance, you don’t really hear that much about the British mafia or the Finnish mafia or the Canadian mafia, but Italian and Russian mobsters are very much in our national consciousness.

    Stereotypes aside, I tried to look up some actual numbers. I’m sure the methodology isn’t super precise and it seems like different countries have different years that the data was reported for, but for intentional homicides per 100,000 people we have the following below. (Note, I assume intentional homicide by definition excludes failed murder attempts.)

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate

    Russia at 11.3 and Lithuania at 6 seem fairly high. Ukraine also comes in at 4.36. On the other hand Italy and Greece are fairly low at .85 and .78 respectively, so maybe the stereotype of Southern Europeans is a bit off, Italian mobsters aside.

    East Asian numbers also seem expected. Taiwan leads the pack at .82, while China and South Korea are both at .74. Japan is .31, Hong Kong .30, and Singapore .25. Many of the countries of Northern Europe are also within that range.

    The African and Latin American numbers are quite absurd, especially the latter, and don’t surprise me that much. It is curious to note though that Russia would rank 9th out of the 56 African countries.

    Since Mr. Derbyshire seems deeply interested in the subject of differential crime rates, perhaps we can get an article from him one of these days analyzing why Russians and other Eastern Europeans seem to be significantly more violent than their other European counterparts, at times basically veering into black and Hispanic territory. Walking through the hood here in the states may not be all that safe, but honestly it seems like walking through large parts of Russia probably isn’t either…

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Finns have pretty high homicide rates for Western Europeans. They have lots of hunting rifles, axes, and they drink hard.
    , @Perspective
    What I find remarkable about the stats is that Poland has a rate of just 0.74, while neighbouring Lithuania has a rate of 5.98, a staggering 8 times higher.
    , @inertial
    Just 15 years ago Russian murder rate was over 30. Give them time to recover from the disaster of the 1990s. Incidentally, the most dangerous areas in Russia are in Siberia, especially the regions populated by the indigenous Asian people like Yakuts or Tuvans. European Russia is far safer.
    , @AP

    Since Mr. Derbyshire seems deeply interested in the subject of differential crime rates, perhaps we can get an article from him one of these days analyzing why Russians and other Eastern Europeans seem to be significantly more violent than their other European counterparts, at times basically veering into black and Hispanic territory. Walking through the hood here in the states may not be all that safe, but honestly it seems like walking through large parts of Russia probably isn’t either
     
    It's largely drinking leading to violence. In Russia, you are not likely to be randomly killed on the street. But if you binge drink with a bunch of guys, there's an ax around, watch out...

    It's very different from places like Detroit.
    , @nebulafox
    Russian and Ukrainian immigrants, very much unlike the Central Americans, tend to be pretty skilled people. One of the reasons Israel was so enthusiastic about the aliyah wave of the 90s was because the emigrants were usually products of the Soviet mathematical education system. This brings its own problems, of course-the Russia Mafia causes such trouble worldwide in part because it is probably the brainiest bunch of criminals in world history, specializing in white-collar crime that is perfect for the 21st Century. Israel faces massive issues with it because of the Russian exodus there-but nevertheless, you don't really have to worry about them adding to the troubles America is already going to face with a rapidly automatized-out-of-the-workforce working class, strained budget, stratified social structure, yadda, yadda yadda.

    (*Legal* African immigrants in the USA-not the refugees that Europe so foolishly let run rampant, like the Somalis up in Minnesota-similarly perform well. They have double the college attainment of native whites, 4x that of African-Americans. And if you think your average middle class white Maryland suburbanite has a negative opinion of Baltimore ghetto dwellers, talk to a Nigerian postdoc at JMU's medical center who witnesses the dysfunction up front every day and is completely untouched by Western political correctness.)

    , @Lot
    "For instance, you don’t really hear that much about the British mafia or the Finnish mafia or the Canadian mafia, but Italian and Russian mobsters are very much in our national consciousness."

    The second and best season of the Fargo TV series is set in 1979 and involves a German-American crime family in North Dakota and rural MN resisting a larger multiethnic mob family's attempt to take over.

    Great show, the top actors and perfect action sequences of early Tarantino without the affected stagey dialog and with far better sets.
  47. @Yan Shen
    You may be right about different ethnicities in the US, but I was thinking more along global lines. For instance, you don't really hear that much about the British mafia or the Finnish mafia or the Canadian mafia, but Italian and Russian mobsters are very much in our national consciousness.

    Stereotypes aside, I tried to look up some actual numbers. I'm sure the methodology isn't super precise and it seems like different countries have different years that the data was reported for, but for intentional homicides per 100,000 people we have the following below. (Note, I assume intentional homicide by definition excludes failed murder attempts.)

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate

    Russia at 11.3 and Lithuania at 6 seem fairly high. Ukraine also comes in at 4.36. On the other hand Italy and Greece are fairly low at .85 and .78 respectively, so maybe the stereotype of Southern Europeans is a bit off, Italian mobsters aside.

    East Asian numbers also seem expected. Taiwan leads the pack at .82, while China and South Korea are both at .74. Japan is .31, Hong Kong .30, and Singapore .25. Many of the countries of Northern Europe are also within that range.

    The African and Latin American numbers are quite absurd, especially the latter, and don't surprise me that much. It is curious to note though that Russia would rank 9th out of the 56 African countries.

    Since Mr. Derbyshire seems deeply interested in the subject of differential crime rates, perhaps we can get an article from him one of these days analyzing why Russians and other Eastern Europeans seem to be significantly more violent than their other European counterparts, at times basically veering into black and Hispanic territory. Walking through the hood here in the states may not be all that safe, but honestly it seems like walking through large parts of Russia probably isn't either...

    Finns have pretty high homicide rates for Western Europeans. They have lots of hunting rifles, axes, and they drink hard.

    • Replies: @Harry Baldwin
    When you read about dueling in Europe in the 16th through mid-19th century, it is clear that most of them arose out of drunken disputes. "Arguments that end in bold usually begin in whisky," as the saying went. A party of gentlemen who got together at a pub might consume four bottles of port apiece. It is noteworthy that in Great Britain, at least, dueling died out during the early Victorian period when public drunkenness began to be frowned upon.
    , @Fredrik
    Quite a few of the murders in Finland involves gypsies. They are few in number but very violent.

    Finnish gypsies are a different group than Eastern European gypsies.

    , @Lot
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hajnal_line

    Add in Greece more of Central Europe and Southern Spain and you have a low violent crime map.

  48. @Yan Shen
    HBD discussions of crime have typically focused on race, but I've always wondered why Eastern and Southern Europeans seemed to be disproportionately more violent compared to their Northern European counterparts. In particular, certain Eastern European ethnicities seem to have a bit of a violent streak in them.

    HBD used to be more interesting in the days of Madison Grant, when one might discuss these kinds of further granularities. Alas, in our modern day 21st century American society, everything's just viewed through the simplistic prism of high level race. Black versus white. Fire versus ice. Night versus day. As opposed to say Northern, Southern, and Eastern European or East Asian, South Asian, and Southeast Asian, etc.

    Even Stormfront will supposedly ban you if you promote explicitly Nordicist points of view. Ironic how those guys are described as being modern day Nazis. Seems like the neo-Nazis are far kinder and more inclusive than were the actual Nazis of yore, what with uh Hitler attempting to conquer Russia and basically trying to wipe out the Slavic race...

    Is this true? Perhaps it was true in 1900 but I don’t see it today.

    If you include British/Irish as Northern Europeans then Northern Europeans probably have a higher crime rate than Southern Europeans. In the U.S, whites in the South have higher violent crime rates than whites living around New York or New Jersey. You’re probably right about Eastern Euros though.

  49. @Engage_PoopChutes
    Im a Ukrainian immigrant to NA, been here 15 years. I've worked and contributed, currently employed in the oilfield.

    Although I agree with SSailer's viewpoint on immigration to this fine land, a thought bothers me. Am I not part of the same diluent that is dissolving the north american white anglosphere?

    I'd like to think of myself as better than "irregular" Somalis, but the main purpose for my family's initial move was better economy. Does that make me yet another diverse locust?

    I’m part Ukrainian myself, and I think we assimilated rather seamlessly into British Canada. Many of the people I grew up with were a mixture of Ukrainian background (usually on the mother’s side) and British background. I personally would love it if more Ukrainians and other East Europeans came here, it would at least slow European demographic dispossession.

    • Replies: @Cagey Beast
    Yes, the "stalwart peasants in sheep-skin coats"*

    I remember hearing about Canadian troops during WW2 stopping at a train station in the middle of winter in Saskatchewan. They were wearing their long khaki wool coats with the matching winter hat with ear flaps. When an old Ukrainian saw a railway platform full of them he started shouting "Bolsheviks! Bolsheviks!". If you see photos of them, they do look like the Reds that guy would have fled about twenty years earlier.

    * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clifford_Sifton#Federal_politics:_Minister_of_the_Interior
  50. @njguy73
    I've commented here regularly for the past two years. We've even exchanged a few replies.

    No, I'm not Tiny Duck. That guy needs to be banned.

    I was commenting on how as a Jew, I feel much less threatened by any Christian movements than by any Islamic movements. I may find Christian fundamentalism distasteful, but I don't feel in danger from it.

    Now is that clear?

    Oh, I know. I was trying to be supportive, ironically; pointing out that the fraction of Jews who read Steve and comment here is not the fraction the OP was ranting about.

    ‘Tiny Duck’ was an attempt at humor. I kinda miss Corvinus; the guy actually bothered to construct an argument. Tiny Duck just tries to hit people’s buttons (and makes offensive arguments no liberal would actually make).

    • Replies: @njguy73

    I was trying to be supportive, ironically
     
    Thanks. It's cool, man. I read and post here because I'm interested in objective scientific discussions, whether the findings fit into my pre-conceived notions or not. I like reading ideas that I hadn't considered before, and that's what I get here.
    , @Harry Baldwin
    Don't forget, Unz provides a "commenters to ignore" option, which I use for Tiny Duck. I highly recommend it. I only wish there were an additional option that would ignore responses to Tiny Duck; then he would be off my radar entirely.
    , @The Anti-Gnostic
    If you say, 'A and B, therefore C,' Corvinus would meticulously argue that A is not C. Then the comment thread veers off as people chase down all the non sequiturs and strawmen. That's actually more irritating than a stupid blind troll who comes in and blunders around.

    There's a larger point: the cucks bleating about 'Muh American Proposition!' are more insidious than the outright bolsheviks who want to eradicate the only people in human history who dreamed up the Proposition and maintain it. Look at the nominal conservatives who supported Evan McMullin for the sole purpose of throwing the Electoral College to Hillary.
  51. @Yan Shen
    You may be right about different ethnicities in the US, but I was thinking more along global lines. For instance, you don't really hear that much about the British mafia or the Finnish mafia or the Canadian mafia, but Italian and Russian mobsters are very much in our national consciousness.

    Stereotypes aside, I tried to look up some actual numbers. I'm sure the methodology isn't super precise and it seems like different countries have different years that the data was reported for, but for intentional homicides per 100,000 people we have the following below. (Note, I assume intentional homicide by definition excludes failed murder attempts.)

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate

    Russia at 11.3 and Lithuania at 6 seem fairly high. Ukraine also comes in at 4.36. On the other hand Italy and Greece are fairly low at .85 and .78 respectively, so maybe the stereotype of Southern Europeans is a bit off, Italian mobsters aside.

    East Asian numbers also seem expected. Taiwan leads the pack at .82, while China and South Korea are both at .74. Japan is .31, Hong Kong .30, and Singapore .25. Many of the countries of Northern Europe are also within that range.

    The African and Latin American numbers are quite absurd, especially the latter, and don't surprise me that much. It is curious to note though that Russia would rank 9th out of the 56 African countries.

    Since Mr. Derbyshire seems deeply interested in the subject of differential crime rates, perhaps we can get an article from him one of these days analyzing why Russians and other Eastern Europeans seem to be significantly more violent than their other European counterparts, at times basically veering into black and Hispanic territory. Walking through the hood here in the states may not be all that safe, but honestly it seems like walking through large parts of Russia probably isn't either...

    What I find remarkable about the stats is that Poland has a rate of just 0.74, while neighbouring Lithuania has a rate of 5.98, a staggering 8 times higher.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Homicide rates are often related to how well-organized and legitimate the government is. Honduras, for example, has a high murder rate at present because the government is just currently successful gangsters.
    , @anonguy

    What I find remarkable about the stats is that Poland has a rate of just 0.74, while neighbouring Lithuania has a rate of 5.98, a staggering 8 times higher.
     
    And neighboring Russia has 11.51%, about 15 times higher.

    How closely related are Poles and Russians?
  52. @Perspective
    What I find remarkable about the stats is that Poland has a rate of just 0.74, while neighbouring Lithuania has a rate of 5.98, a staggering 8 times higher.

    Homicide rates are often related to how well-organized and legitimate the government is. Honduras, for example, has a high murder rate at present because the government is just currently successful gangsters.

  53. @SFG
    Oh, I know. I was trying to be supportive, ironically; pointing out that the fraction of Jews who read Steve and comment here is not the fraction the OP was ranting about.

    'Tiny Duck' was an attempt at humor. I kinda miss Corvinus; the guy actually bothered to construct an argument. Tiny Duck just tries to hit people's buttons (and makes offensive arguments no liberal would actually make).

    I was trying to be supportive, ironically

    Thanks. It’s cool, man. I read and post here because I’m interested in objective scientific discussions, whether the findings fit into my pre-conceived notions or not. I like reading ideas that I hadn’t considered before, and that’s what I get here.

  54. These people are Double Evil in NYT and Media World . They are Evangeical Cossacks !!!

  55. @DFH

    What distinguishes the Davydyuks, who are Pentecostal, from other immigrants is a program created nearly three decades ago to benefit those who suffered from religious persecution in the Soviet Union, where the Communist Party hounded religious groups it could not control
     
    The Jews must find it especially galling that the program created for them is now being used to bring in evangelicals (who they hate even more than Muslims)

    Jews do not hate evangelicals. I know this for a fact because I’m a jew and I don’t know one jew who has ever expressed hatred for evangelicals. And how many jews do you know, and how many have expressed the hate you say they feel? Could it be that you’re talking out your posterior?

    • Replies: @Cagey Beast
    How many Jews repeatedly type the word "jew" with a lower case J? You're one of a kind I guess.
    , @utu
    Jews do not hate evangelicals.

    Why would you hate your useful idiots? Contempt will suffice.
    , @Mr. Anon

    Jews do not hate evangelicals. I know this for a fact because I’m a jew and I don’t know one jew who has ever expressed hatred for evangelicals.
     
    Oh, well that settles it. Your personal anecdotal evidence is self-evidently irrefutable.

    Maybe there are things that a christian would perceive as hatred (or at least contempt) that you don't perceive as such. There are a lot of things that could be said about Jews that I would not consider to be anti-semitic that Jews often do consider as such.

    , @3g4me
    @55 anonymouse: "Jews do not hate evangelicals. I know this for a fact because" I AM A VERY SPECIAL SNOWFLAKE!

    Pew Poll Finds Jews Prefer Muslims to Evangelicals
  56. @Perspective
    I'm part Ukrainian myself, and I think we assimilated rather seamlessly into British Canada. Many of the people I grew up with were a mixture of Ukrainian background (usually on the mother's side) and British background. I personally would love it if more Ukrainians and other East Europeans came here, it would at least slow European demographic dispossession.

    Yes, the “stalwart peasants in sheep-skin coats”*

    I remember hearing about Canadian troops during WW2 stopping at a train station in the middle of winter in Saskatchewan. They were wearing their long khaki wool coats with the matching winter hat with ear flaps. When an old Ukrainian saw a railway platform full of them he started shouting “Bolsheviks! Bolsheviks!”. If you see photos of them, they do look like the Reds that guy would have fled about twenty years earlier.

    * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clifford_Sifton#Federal_politics:_Minister_of_the_Interior

  57. @Yan Shen
    You may be right about different ethnicities in the US, but I was thinking more along global lines. For instance, you don't really hear that much about the British mafia or the Finnish mafia or the Canadian mafia, but Italian and Russian mobsters are very much in our national consciousness.

    Stereotypes aside, I tried to look up some actual numbers. I'm sure the methodology isn't super precise and it seems like different countries have different years that the data was reported for, but for intentional homicides per 100,000 people we have the following below. (Note, I assume intentional homicide by definition excludes failed murder attempts.)

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate

    Russia at 11.3 and Lithuania at 6 seem fairly high. Ukraine also comes in at 4.36. On the other hand Italy and Greece are fairly low at .85 and .78 respectively, so maybe the stereotype of Southern Europeans is a bit off, Italian mobsters aside.

    East Asian numbers also seem expected. Taiwan leads the pack at .82, while China and South Korea are both at .74. Japan is .31, Hong Kong .30, and Singapore .25. Many of the countries of Northern Europe are also within that range.

    The African and Latin American numbers are quite absurd, especially the latter, and don't surprise me that much. It is curious to note though that Russia would rank 9th out of the 56 African countries.

    Since Mr. Derbyshire seems deeply interested in the subject of differential crime rates, perhaps we can get an article from him one of these days analyzing why Russians and other Eastern Europeans seem to be significantly more violent than their other European counterparts, at times basically veering into black and Hispanic territory. Walking through the hood here in the states may not be all that safe, but honestly it seems like walking through large parts of Russia probably isn't either...

    Just 15 years ago Russian murder rate was over 30. Give them time to recover from the disaster of the 1990s. Incidentally, the most dangerous areas in Russia are in Siberia, especially the regions populated by the indigenous Asian people like Yakuts or Tuvans. European Russia is far safer.

  58. Steves right about lower rates of hard drinking keeping Southern European rates of violence down in the US . There’s another thing though – the orderliness of Euro Med culture . Don’t be fooled by hot tempered personalities . I personally know tough Italians who could take apart anyone on the streets but almost none had criminal records . All their juice went into construction or masonry work , racing cars , or lifting weights . Prolly the reason the Roman Empire lasted so long . Also may be why rednecks and Irish DO traditionally have higher crime rates than Southern Euros in the US. Chaos leads to crime . This gets upped big time for blacks . That’s why in Italian culture a ” bastard ” is a real bad guy and for the Irish it’s almost a term of endearment – ” ah you mad bastard ” .

  59. @Anonymouse
    Jews do not hate evangelicals. I know this for a fact because I'm a jew and I don't know one jew who has ever expressed hatred for evangelicals. And how many jews do you know, and how many have expressed the hate you say they feel? Could it be that you're talking out your posterior?

    How many Jews repeatedly type the word “jew” with a lower case J? You’re one of a kind I guess.

  60. @inertial
    On the one hand, admitting Ukrainian Pentecostal Protestants as a persecuted minority sounds positively quaint, a relic of Cold War. Not only they are not being persecuted in the modern Ukraine, one of the nation's most powerful leaders (some say the most powerful, a grey cardinal) is a Pentecostal pastor.

    On the other hand, this is not the the biggest or the most dangerous Cold War relics. People in Washington, DC seem to think that big bad Communist USSR is still with us; only the Cold War frontiers had inexplicably shifted to the east. Giving immigration preferences to Ukrainian Protestants is not the worst consequence of this delusion.

    By the way, from the article: "Ms. Davydyuk, who spoke in Russian through an interpreter, said..." Spoke in Russian, not in Ukrainian. This is typical.

    By the way, from the article: “Ms. Davydyuk, who spoke in Russian through an interpreter, said…” Spoke in Russian, not in Ukrainian. This is typical.

    They might simply have used a Russian-language rather than Ukrainian-language interpreter.

  61. @Yan Shen
    You may be right about different ethnicities in the US, but I was thinking more along global lines. For instance, you don't really hear that much about the British mafia or the Finnish mafia or the Canadian mafia, but Italian and Russian mobsters are very much in our national consciousness.

    Stereotypes aside, I tried to look up some actual numbers. I'm sure the methodology isn't super precise and it seems like different countries have different years that the data was reported for, but for intentional homicides per 100,000 people we have the following below. (Note, I assume intentional homicide by definition excludes failed murder attempts.)

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate

    Russia at 11.3 and Lithuania at 6 seem fairly high. Ukraine also comes in at 4.36. On the other hand Italy and Greece are fairly low at .85 and .78 respectively, so maybe the stereotype of Southern Europeans is a bit off, Italian mobsters aside.

    East Asian numbers also seem expected. Taiwan leads the pack at .82, while China and South Korea are both at .74. Japan is .31, Hong Kong .30, and Singapore .25. Many of the countries of Northern Europe are also within that range.

    The African and Latin American numbers are quite absurd, especially the latter, and don't surprise me that much. It is curious to note though that Russia would rank 9th out of the 56 African countries.

    Since Mr. Derbyshire seems deeply interested in the subject of differential crime rates, perhaps we can get an article from him one of these days analyzing why Russians and other Eastern Europeans seem to be significantly more violent than their other European counterparts, at times basically veering into black and Hispanic territory. Walking through the hood here in the states may not be all that safe, but honestly it seems like walking through large parts of Russia probably isn't either...

    Since Mr. Derbyshire seems deeply interested in the subject of differential crime rates, perhaps we can get an article from him one of these days analyzing why Russians and other Eastern Europeans seem to be significantly more violent than their other European counterparts, at times basically veering into black and Hispanic territory. Walking through the hood here in the states may not be all that safe, but honestly it seems like walking through large parts of Russia probably isn’t either

    It’s largely drinking leading to violence. In Russia, you are not likely to be randomly killed on the street. But if you binge drink with a bunch of guys, there’s an ax around, watch out…

    It’s very different from places like Detroit.

    • Replies: @Anatoly Karlin
    Yes, this is correct.

    Anyhow, Belarus and Ukraine are at around 3-4 homicides / 100,000 per year now. Russia is twice higher. But 4x down from its peak in the mid-1990s - a period which also saw a partial breakdown in law and order - which is perfectly in line with the decline in vodka bingeing.

    https://www.unz.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/russia-deaths-from-external-causes-1990-2014.png

    The Black homicide rate in the US is around 20/100,000 as I recall. Not really comparable.
  62. @Perspective
    What I find remarkable about the stats is that Poland has a rate of just 0.74, while neighbouring Lithuania has a rate of 5.98, a staggering 8 times higher.

    What I find remarkable about the stats is that Poland has a rate of just 0.74, while neighbouring Lithuania has a rate of 5.98, a staggering 8 times higher.

    And neighboring Russia has 11.51%, about 15 times higher.

    How closely related are Poles and Russians?

    • Replies: @guest
    "How closely related are Poles and Russians"

    Don't ask a Russian or a Pole.
    , @utu
    Murder rate is not the best indicator to use in HBD arguments.
  63. @Yan Shen
    You may be right about different ethnicities in the US, but I was thinking more along global lines. For instance, you don't really hear that much about the British mafia or the Finnish mafia or the Canadian mafia, but Italian and Russian mobsters are very much in our national consciousness.

    Stereotypes aside, I tried to look up some actual numbers. I'm sure the methodology isn't super precise and it seems like different countries have different years that the data was reported for, but for intentional homicides per 100,000 people we have the following below. (Note, I assume intentional homicide by definition excludes failed murder attempts.)

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate

    Russia at 11.3 and Lithuania at 6 seem fairly high. Ukraine also comes in at 4.36. On the other hand Italy and Greece are fairly low at .85 and .78 respectively, so maybe the stereotype of Southern Europeans is a bit off, Italian mobsters aside.

    East Asian numbers also seem expected. Taiwan leads the pack at .82, while China and South Korea are both at .74. Japan is .31, Hong Kong .30, and Singapore .25. Many of the countries of Northern Europe are also within that range.

    The African and Latin American numbers are quite absurd, especially the latter, and don't surprise me that much. It is curious to note though that Russia would rank 9th out of the 56 African countries.

    Since Mr. Derbyshire seems deeply interested in the subject of differential crime rates, perhaps we can get an article from him one of these days analyzing why Russians and other Eastern Europeans seem to be significantly more violent than their other European counterparts, at times basically veering into black and Hispanic territory. Walking through the hood here in the states may not be all that safe, but honestly it seems like walking through large parts of Russia probably isn't either...

    Russian and Ukrainian immigrants, very much unlike the Central Americans, tend to be pretty skilled people. One of the reasons Israel was so enthusiastic about the aliyah wave of the 90s was because the emigrants were usually products of the Soviet mathematical education system. This brings its own problems, of course-the Russia Mafia causes such trouble worldwide in part because it is probably the brainiest bunch of criminals in world history, specializing in white-collar crime that is perfect for the 21st Century. Israel faces massive issues with it because of the Russian exodus there-but nevertheless, you don’t really have to worry about them adding to the troubles America is already going to face with a rapidly automatized-out-of-the-workforce working class, strained budget, stratified social structure, yadda, yadda yadda.

    (*Legal* African immigrants in the USA-not the refugees that Europe so foolishly let run rampant, like the Somalis up in Minnesota-similarly perform well. They have double the college attainment of native whites, 4x that of African-Americans. And if you think your average middle class white Maryland suburbanite has a negative opinion of Baltimore ghetto dwellers, talk to a Nigerian postdoc at JMU’s medical center who witnesses the dysfunction up front every day and is completely untouched by Western political correctness.)

    • Replies: @nebulafox
    Sorry, I meant "refugees", if you are the type of Goodthinker who believes the Washington Post and the BBC, and think "Syrians" magically speak Pashto or Somali. In truth, illegal migrants.
    , @3g4me
    @63 nebulafox: "*Legal* African immigrants in the USA . . . similarly perform well. They have double the college attainment of native whites . . . "

    They're just natural-born Americans! Send for more, add in Yan Shen's Han genius cohort, and the future for children is assured. White children, however . . . they're just not measuring up. Couldn't possibly make it as future Americans. Well, you know what's said about making an omelet - some eggs are more equal than others.
  64. @nebulafox
    Russian and Ukrainian immigrants, very much unlike the Central Americans, tend to be pretty skilled people. One of the reasons Israel was so enthusiastic about the aliyah wave of the 90s was because the emigrants were usually products of the Soviet mathematical education system. This brings its own problems, of course-the Russia Mafia causes such trouble worldwide in part because it is probably the brainiest bunch of criminals in world history, specializing in white-collar crime that is perfect for the 21st Century. Israel faces massive issues with it because of the Russian exodus there-but nevertheless, you don't really have to worry about them adding to the troubles America is already going to face with a rapidly automatized-out-of-the-workforce working class, strained budget, stratified social structure, yadda, yadda yadda.

    (*Legal* African immigrants in the USA-not the refugees that Europe so foolishly let run rampant, like the Somalis up in Minnesota-similarly perform well. They have double the college attainment of native whites, 4x that of African-Americans. And if you think your average middle class white Maryland suburbanite has a negative opinion of Baltimore ghetto dwellers, talk to a Nigerian postdoc at JMU's medical center who witnesses the dysfunction up front every day and is completely untouched by Western political correctness.)

    Sorry, I meant “refugees”, if you are the type of Goodthinker who believes the Washington Post and the BBC, and think “Syrians” magically speak Pashto or Somali. In truth, illegal migrants.

  65. @Thomm
    The Nationalist-Leftists will first say that you are welcome, but with very little prodding, they turn against what they consider to be 'lesser' whites, such as Irish, Italians, Ukrainians, etc.

    So if you just scratch the surface, you will see their true colors.

    Fortunately, most Americans are not Nationalist-Leftists, so we have no problem with skilled, legal immigration.

    Don’t generalize. I’m a protectionist nationalist who is perfectly fine with legal, skilled immigration that is congruent with the national needs of the United States during the given time period.

    (Eh, on second thought, I don’t even know what I am anymore, so whatever. I guess a Rhenish capitalist of sorts comes close. Does that fall into that Nationalist-Leftist spectrum?)

  66. There was also the subversives in East Tennessee who immigrated to the US from Germany so that they could home school their five children.

    https://www.cbsnews.com/news/german-home-school-family-wont-be-deported/

  67. @Ghost of Amy
    Young Eastern European men. Mmm, not bad at all.

    Tall, slim with broad shoulders, high cheekbones, gorgeous. Please come.

  68. @Thomm
    The Nationalist-Leftists will first say that you are welcome, but with very little prodding, they turn against what they consider to be 'lesser' whites, such as Irish, Italians, Ukrainians, etc.

    So if you just scratch the surface, you will see their true colors.

    Fortunately, most Americans are not Nationalist-Leftists, so we have no problem with skilled, legal immigration.

    Obviously you are not in medicine, dentistry, accounting, engineering, computers, scientific research or any other occupation both the government and employers are in the process of turning over to skilled educated immigrants and excluding White Americans.

  69. @njguy73
    I've commented here regularly for the past two years. We've even exchanged a few replies.

    No, I'm not Tiny Duck. That guy needs to be banned.

    I was commenting on how as a Jew, I feel much less threatened by any Christian movements than by any Islamic movements. I may find Christian fundamentalism distasteful, but I don't feel in danger from it.

    Now is that clear?

    Do you much about Christian fundamentalism? It’s basically Hebrew bible Christianity. For instance their aversion to homosexuality is from Leviticus in the Hebrew bible. The Christian bible says nothing about homosexuality
    Some still follow John Calvin’s statement “There is but one God, the G-d of Israel”. The founders of the fun due sects proclaimed that Jesus was only the founder of Christianity, not God, the Jewish God.

    Fundy churches are extremely, extremely pro Israel and pro Jewish because the Hebrew bible told them so.

    In fact, the fundy churches are the greatest fans of Israel and Jews in the country.

  70. @Steve Sailer
    A pretty horrible and memorable example of white-on-black violent crime. Ennis Cosby was driving on the 405 to the San Fernando Valley, got a flat tire, pulled over near Mulholland Drive, and this carjacker murdered him.

    By the way, this tragedy probably preserved Bill Cosby's reputation for another 15 years. It totally eclipsed questions about a scandal involving Cosby in the news.

    It was immigrant mafia on American born citizen crime. Horrible.

  71. @DFH

    What distinguishes the Davydyuks, who are Pentecostal, from other immigrants is a program created nearly three decades ago to benefit those who suffered from religious persecution in the Soviet Union, where the Communist Party hounded religious groups it could not control
     
    The Jews must find it especially galling that the program created for them is now being used to bring in evangelicals (who they hate even more than Muslims)

    Do Jews hate Muslims? I’m always reading about reform rabbis reaching out to the Muslim community, supporting them when they want to build a new mosque, and marching shoulder-to-shoulder with them against “hate.” Liberal Jews seem to see them as natural allies. I just saw a little propaganda video on the net, an interview with a Jew in his 90s who talked about being in the concentration camps, and how horrific it is to see nazis now marching in America and spreading hate. An example of the hate he gave was right-wingers who want to keep out Muslims. That made me suspect the whole interview was phony.

  72. @Steve Sailer
    Finns have pretty high homicide rates for Western Europeans. They have lots of hunting rifles, axes, and they drink hard.

    When you read about dueling in Europe in the 16th through mid-19th century, it is clear that most of them arose out of drunken disputes. “Arguments that end in bold usually begin in whisky,” as the saying went. A party of gentlemen who got together at a pub might consume four bottles of port apiece. It is noteworthy that in Great Britain, at least, dueling died out during the early Victorian period when public drunkenness began to be frowned upon.

    • Replies: @Studley

    A party of gentlemen who got together at a pub might consume four bottles of port apiece.
     
    Yes. I read once that the Duke of Wellington before he was the Iron Duke and serving in India wrote that he was a very moderate drinker and only had 4 glasses of wine at evening dinner. So one can imagine what his fellow officers were putting down.

    Would have made sense out in India with the bad water but whether the bad water continued in Britain and it was only when the public authorities got on top of it that this moderated British alcohol consumption for high and low alike rather than Victorian moral attitudes is an interesting question.
  73. @SFG
    Oh, I know. I was trying to be supportive, ironically; pointing out that the fraction of Jews who read Steve and comment here is not the fraction the OP was ranting about.

    'Tiny Duck' was an attempt at humor. I kinda miss Corvinus; the guy actually bothered to construct an argument. Tiny Duck just tries to hit people's buttons (and makes offensive arguments no liberal would actually make).

    Don’t forget, Unz provides a “commenters to ignore” option, which I use for Tiny Duck. I highly recommend it. I only wish there were an additional option that would ignore responses to Tiny Duck; then he would be off my radar entirely.

  74. @anonguy

    What I find remarkable about the stats is that Poland has a rate of just 0.74, while neighbouring Lithuania has a rate of 5.98, a staggering 8 times higher.
     
    And neighboring Russia has 11.51%, about 15 times higher.

    How closely related are Poles and Russians?

    “How closely related are Poles and Russians”

    Don’t ask a Russian or a Pole.

    • Replies: @Anon 2
    The simplest answer is that genetically
    the Polish and the Russians are fairly close
    although when you visit Russia the most noticeable
    thing in large cities is the huge number of Central
    Asians (Tajiks, Kazakhs, etc,) and people from
    the Caucasus, i.e., a lot of people in Russia have
    slanted eyes. Except for about 60,000 Vietnamese,
    this is something you definitely don't see in Poland.
    Poland currently has over a million Ukrainian workers
    and students on short-term (but renewable) visas, and
    growing numbers of gastarbeiters from Belarus and
    Russia, but culturally Poland has been in Central Europe
    for 1200 years, i.e., part of Western Christendom.

    There is a reason the Visegrad group came into being:
    Poland, Czechia, Slovakia, Hungary (and Austria) have
    been part of the same Catholic Central European culture,
    and this culture has had little to do with Russia. For example,
    the first universities in Poland and Czechia came into being
    in the 1300s whereas in Russia not until the early 1700s.
    Today, Poland and Russia have very little in common.
    Under the Soviet-imposed Communism Polish children
    were required (very reluctantly!) to study Russian whereas
    Russian children were free to study English. These days
    the population that was forced to study Russian is starting
    to die off, and so currently very few people in Poland know
    Russian, and there is no interest in learning it. On the other
    hand, the knowledge of English is very high, higher than in
    France or Germany.
  75. @Harry Baldwin
    When you read about dueling in Europe in the 16th through mid-19th century, it is clear that most of them arose out of drunken disputes. "Arguments that end in bold usually begin in whisky," as the saying went. A party of gentlemen who got together at a pub might consume four bottles of port apiece. It is noteworthy that in Great Britain, at least, dueling died out during the early Victorian period when public drunkenness began to be frowned upon.

    A party of gentlemen who got together at a pub might consume four bottles of port apiece.

    Yes. I read once that the Duke of Wellington before he was the Iron Duke and serving in India wrote that he was a very moderate drinker and only had 4 glasses of wine at evening dinner. So one can imagine what his fellow officers were putting down.

    Would have made sense out in India with the bad water but whether the bad water continued in Britain and it was only when the public authorities got on top of it that this moderated British alcohol consumption for high and low alike rather than Victorian moral attitudes is an interesting question.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    There was an anti-alcoholism campaign in the mid-1700s that Hogarth did his Gin Alley and Beer Lane paintings for to encourage switching from gin to beer.
    , @utu

    https://ageofrevolutions.com/2016/12/05/intoxication-and-the-french-revolution/
     

    "Perhaps around 300 liters of wine were drunk in Paris per year per adult male on the eve of the Revolution, as opposed to 20 liters of beer and six liters of cider."
     
    Contrary to common belief revolutions happens when things get better not worse. But after the revolution it got even better at least in terms of drinking.

    "The association of drinking and the conquest of power by ‘the people’ was remarkable in 1791 – by articulating demands in terms of consumption, ordinary citizens insisted that liberty and equality be made material, physical and substantive – in essence, that they could be tasted."
     
    , @Hippopotamusdrome


    Would have made sense out in India with the bad water but whether the bad water

     

    Due to the diruretic effect of drinking wine, even more water would need to be consumed.
  76. @Studley

    A party of gentlemen who got together at a pub might consume four bottles of port apiece.
     
    Yes. I read once that the Duke of Wellington before he was the Iron Duke and serving in India wrote that he was a very moderate drinker and only had 4 glasses of wine at evening dinner. So one can imagine what his fellow officers were putting down.

    Would have made sense out in India with the bad water but whether the bad water continued in Britain and it was only when the public authorities got on top of it that this moderated British alcohol consumption for high and low alike rather than Victorian moral attitudes is an interesting question.

    There was an anti-alcoholism campaign in the mid-1700s that Hogarth did his Gin Alley and Beer Lane paintings for to encourage switching from gin to beer.

    • Replies: @utu
    Tea marketing was in the guise of anti-alcohol campaign. I think some Methodist pastors were involved oblivious to the opium trade.
  77. @Steve Sailer
    A pretty horrible and memorable example of white-on-black violent crime. Ennis Cosby was driving on the 405 to the San Fernando Valley, got a flat tire, pulled over near Mulholland Drive, and this carjacker murdered him.

    By the way, this tragedy probably preserved Bill Cosby's reputation for another 15 years. It totally eclipsed questions about a scandal involving Cosby in the news.

    By the way, this tragedy probably preserved Bill Cosby’s reputation for another 15 years. It totally eclipsed questions about a scandal involving Cosby in the news.

    “America taught our son’s killer to hate African Americans,” Camille Cosby, 07/08/98.

    • Replies: @3g4me
    @75 E. Rekshun: "“America taught our son’s killer to hate African Americans,” Camille Cosby, 07/08/98."

    Thank you. I'm weary of all the clucks decrying muh double standard or muh hypocrisy. They hate Whites. They want you and your children dead and your history erased. I have no problem with one type of magic-paper Americans taking out another type of magic-dirt Americans.
  78. @Steve Sailer
    There was an anti-alcoholism campaign in the mid-1700s that Hogarth did his Gin Alley and Beer Lane paintings for to encourage switching from gin to beer.

    Tea marketing was in the guise of anti-alcohol campaign. I think some Methodist pastors were involved oblivious to the opium trade.

  79. @Studley

    A party of gentlemen who got together at a pub might consume four bottles of port apiece.
     
    Yes. I read once that the Duke of Wellington before he was the Iron Duke and serving in India wrote that he was a very moderate drinker and only had 4 glasses of wine at evening dinner. So one can imagine what his fellow officers were putting down.

    Would have made sense out in India with the bad water but whether the bad water continued in Britain and it was only when the public authorities got on top of it that this moderated British alcohol consumption for high and low alike rather than Victorian moral attitudes is an interesting question.

    https://ageofrevolutions.com/2016/12/05/intoxication-and-the-french-revolution/

    “Perhaps around 300 liters of wine were drunk in Paris per year per adult male on the eve of the Revolution, as opposed to 20 liters of beer and six liters of cider.”

    Contrary to common belief revolutions happens when things get better not worse. But after the revolution it got even better at least in terms of drinking.

    “The association of drinking and the conquest of power by ‘the people’ was remarkable in 1791 – by articulating demands in terms of consumption, ordinary citizens insisted that liberty and equality be made material, physical and substantive – in essence, that they could be tasted.”

    • Replies: @Studley
    Influence of the French wine industry as a catalyst for the French Revolution would be a good scholarly work. A Tale of Two Cities, the film with Dirk Bogarde, there is a scene where the sans culottes, Madam Defarge looking on, swoop on a broken wine barrel in the street and scoop it up.

    It just seems unlikely. That the great explosion in Paris could have actually been caused by a shortage of wine supplies.

    Wellington v. Napoleon at Waterloo, though. First two sober generals on the battlefield? Meanwhile out in Sydney, Australia, which the British Army is supplying, they have this. The redcoats get so upset over alcohol rules that they.. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rum_Rebellion
    , @Ivy
    The cider consumption is typically alcoholic cidre. Normandy and other nearby agricultural areas grow a lot of apples and pears. Wine growing parts of France are further south (e.g., Loire Valley, Bordeaux) or east/southeast (e.g., Champagne, Burgundy).

    Try a glass or two of cidre with a crêpe, a tasty snack on a blustery day admiring Monet's Honfleur or similar vista.
  80. @anonguy

    What I find remarkable about the stats is that Poland has a rate of just 0.74, while neighbouring Lithuania has a rate of 5.98, a staggering 8 times higher.
     
    And neighboring Russia has 11.51%, about 15 times higher.

    How closely related are Poles and Russians?

    Murder rate is not the best indicator to use in HBD arguments.

    • Replies: @anonguy

    Murder rate is not the best indicator to use in HBD arguments.
     
    One certainly wouldn't infer that by the cachet HDB'ers accord to FBI crime statistics.
  81. @Anonymouse
    Jews do not hate evangelicals. I know this for a fact because I'm a jew and I don't know one jew who has ever expressed hatred for evangelicals. And how many jews do you know, and how many have expressed the hate you say they feel? Could it be that you're talking out your posterior?

    Jews do not hate evangelicals.

    Why would you hate your useful idiots? Contempt will suffice.

    • Replies: @Malcolm X-Lax
    I'm trying to remember the lines from Portnoy's Complaint in which Roth tries to convey the cognitive dissonance of having contempt for everything "the shiksa" thinks and stands for, while at the same time being driven mad by lust for her. It's amusing and yet disturbing when one considers the influence these people have had on our culture and people."How can she be so...healthy?!"
  82. @E. Rekshun
    In 1997, actor/comedian Bill Cosby's son was shot in the head and killed by 18-year old Ukrainian immigrant Mikhail Markhasev during a robbery/carjacking in LA.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Ennis_Cosby

    Ukrainians are far from being angels, e.g. Ukrainian mafia was infamously active in Prague and Warsaw in the 90s, but Markhasev was a Ukrainian Jew. Wikipedia does not see fit to mention this.

    • Replies: @HA
    "> Markhasev was a Ukrainian Jew. Wikipedia does not see fit to mention this."

    Maybe that's because there's no good evidence for it, aside from offhand assertions like the one you offered and the general observation that many/most Ukrainian immigrants to the US at the time were taking advantage of refusenik legislation.

    If you want to settle the matter once and for all, you can try asking him yourself, since his prison newspaper apparently has a Facebook page:

    https://www.facebook.com/thebeatwithin/posts/10151000758488898

    Whatever his upbringing, Markhasev is now apparently a devout Christian. If the Facebook lead proves to be a dead end, you might also be able to contact his prison chaplain. I'm guessing you can find him here:

    http://joyofallwhosorrow.org/events-announcements/from-thief-to-belief-palm-sunday/

    A while ago, he even had some memorabilia on sale, for people into that kind of thing:

    http://www.darkvomit.com/images/uploads/newkiller4/mikhailmarkhasevphoto2.jpg

    And at the risk of digressing, can we also stop pretending that "goy" is derived from the Hebrew word for "cattle"? Apart from white nationalist assertions (and the occasional rabbinical admonition that goyim are no better than cattle, which is hardly the same thing), there's no evidence of that either, but that is another canard that refuses to die.

  83. @utu

    https://ageofrevolutions.com/2016/12/05/intoxication-and-the-french-revolution/
     

    "Perhaps around 300 liters of wine were drunk in Paris per year per adult male on the eve of the Revolution, as opposed to 20 liters of beer and six liters of cider."
     
    Contrary to common belief revolutions happens when things get better not worse. But after the revolution it got even better at least in terms of drinking.

    "The association of drinking and the conquest of power by ‘the people’ was remarkable in 1791 – by articulating demands in terms of consumption, ordinary citizens insisted that liberty and equality be made material, physical and substantive – in essence, that they could be tasted."
     

    Influence of the French wine industry as a catalyst for the French Revolution would be a good scholarly work. A Tale of Two Cities, the film with Dirk Bogarde, there is a scene where the sans culottes, Madam Defarge looking on, swoop on a broken wine barrel in the street and scoop it up.

    It just seems unlikely. That the great explosion in Paris could have actually been caused by a shortage of wine supplies.

    Wellington v. Napoleon at Waterloo, though. First two sober generals on the battlefield? Meanwhile out in Sydney, Australia, which the British Army is supplying, they have this. The redcoats get so upset over alcohol rules that they.. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rum_Rebellion

    • Replies: @StillCARealist
    Not enough wine for the masses? Or was it that they were deprived all the way around? I love that scene in TOTC, BTW. Madame Defarge is one of the best characters in fiction.

    When I read of these mass quantities of alcohol consumed in some former times, I can only hold my forehead in pain. If I have even one glass of wine without food my head feels like it's going to explode.
  84. I’m quite familiar with this class of Ukrainians, there’s a concentration of them around Sacramento.

    They tend to be honest and affable, though extremely religious and frankly rather dim. They also have hordes of children.

    Personal anecdote:

    One of my friends was once invited to lunch by one such person – let’s call her Halyna – and she brought me along. We noticed Halyna wasn’t wearing a seatbelt as we drove to her house. When we pointed that out, she told us that “God is watching me.” After an awkward silence, my friend logically pointed out, “But what if God is looking the other way at some unfortunate moment?” After a few moments of ponderation, Halyna agreed and fastened her seatbelt after all.

    After lunch we were invited to a Bible study session at the house of another person in that community. We politily declined.

    My impression is that though they were ultra-religious, they were not especially nationalist; they mingled freely with fundamentalist Russian emigres (though there were at least 10x fewer of them than Ukrainians, of whom most of whom came from the far west). I suppose this is unsurprising since Christianity is universalistic, so after a certain point of religiosity – and they pretty much max out that stats tree – nationalism has nowhere to go but down. I think they voted more or less uniformly for Trump.

    • Replies: @StillCARealist
    Yeah, these people are taking over the independent homeschooling movement. So far, so good. They are so conservative and fundamentalist it's sort of shocking. I doubt their kids will have the gigantic families, though. They want good outcomes for all six little darlings and there just isn't enough time in the day to tiger-mother that many.

    And man, do they hate the commies.
  85. @AP

    Since Mr. Derbyshire seems deeply interested in the subject of differential crime rates, perhaps we can get an article from him one of these days analyzing why Russians and other Eastern Europeans seem to be significantly more violent than their other European counterparts, at times basically veering into black and Hispanic territory. Walking through the hood here in the states may not be all that safe, but honestly it seems like walking through large parts of Russia probably isn’t either
     
    It's largely drinking leading to violence. In Russia, you are not likely to be randomly killed on the street. But if you binge drink with a bunch of guys, there's an ax around, watch out...

    It's very different from places like Detroit.

    Yes, this is correct.

    Anyhow, Belarus and Ukraine are at around 3-4 homicides / 100,000 per year now. Russia is twice higher. But 4x down from its peak in the mid-1990s – a period which also saw a partial breakdown in law and order – which is perfectly in line with the decline in vodka bingeing.

    The Black homicide rate in the US is around 20/100,000 as I recall. Not really comparable.

  86. @SFG
    Oh, I know. I was trying to be supportive, ironically; pointing out that the fraction of Jews who read Steve and comment here is not the fraction the OP was ranting about.

    'Tiny Duck' was an attempt at humor. I kinda miss Corvinus; the guy actually bothered to construct an argument. Tiny Duck just tries to hit people's buttons (and makes offensive arguments no liberal would actually make).

    If you say, ‘A and B, therefore C,’ Corvinus would meticulously argue that A is not C. Then the comment thread veers off as people chase down all the non sequiturs and strawmen. That’s actually more irritating than a stupid blind troll who comes in and blunders around.

    There’s a larger point: the cucks bleating about ‘Muh American Proposition!’ are more insidious than the outright bolsheviks who want to eradicate the only people in human history who dreamed up the Proposition and maintain it. Look at the nominal conservatives who supported Evan McMullin for the sole purpose of throwing the Electoral College to Hillary.

    • Replies: @Corvinus
    "If you say, ‘A and B, therefore C,’ Corvinus would meticulously argue that A is not C. Then the comment thread veers off as people chase down all the non sequiturs and strawmen. That’s actually more irritating than a stupid blind troll who comes in and blunders around."

    I markedly increased your blog traffic, and all I got was this lousy t-shirt.

    "There’s a larger point: the cucks bleating about ‘Muh American Proposition!’ are more insidious than the outright bolsheviks who want to eradicate the only people in human history who dreamed up the Proposition and maintain it. Look at the nominal conservatives who supported Evan McMullin for the sole purpose of throwing the Electoral College to Hillary."

    Preserving rights “for one’s posterity” was the legal repudiation of feudalism, which stated liberties were a grant from a monarch and the State, and reverted upon his/her death. That is, fundamental freedoms were NOT passed to future generations. The Declaration and the Federalist Papers in particular destroys that feudalist notion. More importantly, Article I, Section 8, Clause 4, as a component of our Constitution and reflects original intent, granted Congress and NOT the States the authority to establish uniform rules of naturalization. By definition, naturalization extends citizenship, and the liberties related to it, to an “outsider”.

    So, the drafters of our Constitution and the adopting state s fully comprehended the new Congress would have to power to receive immigrants and set forth the standards under which they are naturalized. Citizenship therefore is NOT exclusively confined to the British. This means this argument that the franchise of citizenship is meant to be confined solely to the British children of rebel British subjects is not reflected in the clear meaning of the document. Since immigration was allowed to the United States, at first to Europeans but later extended to non-Europeans, the “posterity” includes more than the actual descendants of residents of our great nation at that time.

    But, but, but “[the Constitution] did allow for the possibility of change. But change, by definition, is not the previous state. And the original purpose of the Constitution cannot change, obviously.” Well, a contract, which essentially is what is our Constitution, that has an amendment process is NOT meant to remain constant. It has no original purpose but to establish exactly what the Preamble states. Posterity does not refer to the progeny of the founders but of the People as a whole. While this population was primarily of British descent, the Dutch, Germans, Irish, Scots, French, Africans, and Native Americans ALL fought to remove the shackles of tyranny from Great Britain.

    Posterity is synonymous with “legacy”–what we leave behind. Indeed, few, if any, had imagined when the Constitution was created that anyone BUT a white European had the intellectual capacity to embrace Republican principles of government…YET the criterion of commitment to those ideas is NOT itself racial or ethnic specific. Of course, that does NOT mean foreigners have the right to enter our shores, and it is legitimate, although in my opinion unreasonable, to doubt that non-white groups are equal to the task to embrace such principles.

    Ultimately, the American identity has not been lost within the past 60 years, it just has transformed, similar to when the Thirteen Colonies began as primarily British, but subsumed other European groups who were historic rivals, and eventually non-Europeans. The Welsh, the Cornish, Bavarians, the Catalans–they were distinct sub-Europeans groups, but over generations they intermingled and dispersed in our great land. Americans are a mixture of European and non-European ethnostates who, like any and all groups, self-identify. They know who they are and where they come from, and create groups who share their self-identities. Furthermore, the default for American is American and not a particular race, regardless of one’s willingness to admit it this decided fact. When you call yourself a black American or a Chinese American, you are still an American, as in residing in the nation referred as the United States. And while Yankees and Southerners and Midwesterners are clearly different, they are not separate “tribes” or “nations”, just locations with groups of people who self-identify geographically, socially, and culturally.

    This proposition nation is the direct result of indoctrination…from our Founding Fathers.
  87. @reiner Tor
    Hungary is famous for rejecting immigrants. But I think the government just made it easier for Ukrainians to immigrate. Nobody opposed this. You just figured it out yourself: you guys are quite different from Somalis.

    I guess it would still be a problem if there was ever a chance of Ukrainians becoming a majority in any country other than Ukraine, but it's not even likely in Hungary.

    The Ukrainians coming to Hungary are ethnic Hungarians, and most speak some Hungarian. Hard working, God fearing, good people, and by the way, no antisemites.

  88. anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    A significant portion of the white population here seem to have a strong dislike for the wrong kind of white and have few qualms about expressing their dislike of them. Even on this website people who, presumably, are on the conservative side of the spectrum regularly bash low class whites as being ‘white trash’ or single out certain ethnicities as being prone to criminality, drunkenness, violence, ethnocentrism, etc. This is apart from the white loathing going on with the lefty types who are also heavily white. Now is not the time for whites to cannibalize each other despite real or perceived flaws. Only a sense of solidarity can help us through this demographic attack. Bring in the Ukrainians. Would the NYT criticize the inflow from the Congo?

  89. @Anonymous
    Ukrainians are far from being angels, e.g. Ukrainian mafia was infamously active in Prague and Warsaw in the 90s, but Markhasev was a Ukrainian Jew. Wikipedia does not see fit to mention this.

    “> Markhasev was a Ukrainian Jew. Wikipedia does not see fit to mention this.”

    Maybe that’s because there’s no good evidence for it, aside from offhand assertions like the one you offered and the general observation that many/most Ukrainian immigrants to the US at the time were taking advantage of refusenik legislation.

    If you want to settle the matter once and for all, you can try asking him yourself, since his prison newspaper apparently has a Facebook page:

    https://www.facebook.com/thebeatwithin/posts/10151000758488898

    Whatever his upbringing, Markhasev is now apparently a devout Christian. If the Facebook lead proves to be a dead end, you might also be able to contact his prison chaplain. I’m guessing you can find him here:

    http://joyofallwhosorrow.org/events-announcements/from-thief-to-belief-palm-sunday/

    A while ago, he even had some memorabilia on sale, for people into that kind of thing:

    And at the risk of digressing, can we also stop pretending that “goy” is derived from the Hebrew word for “cattle”? Apart from white nationalist assertions (and the occasional rabbinical admonition that goyim are no better than cattle, which is hardly the same thing), there’s no evidence of that either, but that is another canard that refuses to die.

    • Replies: @Mr. Anon

    And at the risk of digressing, can we also stop pretending that “goy” is derived from the Hebrew word for “cattle”?
     
    Sure, can we also stop pretending that - only being derived from the Hebrew for "nations", not "cattle" - the word "goy" is never used as a perjorative?
  90. @Anonymouse
    Jews do not hate evangelicals. I know this for a fact because I'm a jew and I don't know one jew who has ever expressed hatred for evangelicals. And how many jews do you know, and how many have expressed the hate you say they feel? Could it be that you're talking out your posterior?

    Jews do not hate evangelicals. I know this for a fact because I’m a jew and I don’t know one jew who has ever expressed hatred for evangelicals.

    Oh, well that settles it. Your personal anecdotal evidence is self-evidently irrefutable.

    Maybe there are things that a christian would perceive as hatred (or at least contempt) that you don’t perceive as such. There are a lot of things that could be said about Jews that I would not consider to be anti-semitic that Jews often do consider as such.

  91. @HA
    "> Markhasev was a Ukrainian Jew. Wikipedia does not see fit to mention this."

    Maybe that's because there's no good evidence for it, aside from offhand assertions like the one you offered and the general observation that many/most Ukrainian immigrants to the US at the time were taking advantage of refusenik legislation.

    If you want to settle the matter once and for all, you can try asking him yourself, since his prison newspaper apparently has a Facebook page:

    https://www.facebook.com/thebeatwithin/posts/10151000758488898

    Whatever his upbringing, Markhasev is now apparently a devout Christian. If the Facebook lead proves to be a dead end, you might also be able to contact his prison chaplain. I'm guessing you can find him here:

    http://joyofallwhosorrow.org/events-announcements/from-thief-to-belief-palm-sunday/

    A while ago, he even had some memorabilia on sale, for people into that kind of thing:

    http://www.darkvomit.com/images/uploads/newkiller4/mikhailmarkhasevphoto2.jpg

    And at the risk of digressing, can we also stop pretending that "goy" is derived from the Hebrew word for "cattle"? Apart from white nationalist assertions (and the occasional rabbinical admonition that goyim are no better than cattle, which is hardly the same thing), there's no evidence of that either, but that is another canard that refuses to die.

    And at the risk of digressing, can we also stop pretending that “goy” is derived from the Hebrew word for “cattle”?

    Sure, can we also stop pretending that – only being derived from the Hebrew for “nations”, not “cattle” – the word “goy” is never used as a perjorative?

    • Replies: @HA
    ">can we also stop pretending that ...the word “goy” is never used as a pejorative?"

    Sure. And as long as we're being magnanimously evenhanded, I will note that if ever I should hear the word "Jew" spoken at me from behind a pointed finger, that's probably not going to be from anyone trying to pay me a compliment, either. 'Round and 'round it goes.

    (And while I'm at it, I should not have said that Markhasev was the one who put his memorabilia on sale at murder-collectors-inc. or whatever that site is. It could have been anyone that corresponded with him at any time, perhaps without his knowledge.)

  92. @utu
    Murder rate is not the best indicator to use in HBD arguments.

    Murder rate is not the best indicator to use in HBD arguments.

    One certainly wouldn’t infer that by the cachet HDB’ers accord to FBI crime statistics.

  93. @Steve Sailer
    Finns have pretty high homicide rates for Western Europeans. They have lots of hunting rifles, axes, and they drink hard.

    Quite a few of the murders in Finland involves gypsies. They are few in number but very violent.

    Finnish gypsies are a different group than Eastern European gypsies.

  94. @Steve Sailer
    Southern Europeans in the U.S. (Italians and Greeks) have quite low violent crime rates. New Jersey and Long Island, for example, have a quite low murder rate.

    Northern Europeans in the U.S. probably have a higher violent crime rate than Northern Europeans in the U.S. due to binge drinking and fewer guns.

    “Northern Europeans in the U.S. probably have a higher violent crime rate than Northern Europeans in the U.S. due to binge drinking and fewer guns.”

    A logical impossibility ,I’m afraid.

  95. @Anonymouse
    Jews do not hate evangelicals. I know this for a fact because I'm a jew and I don't know one jew who has ever expressed hatred for evangelicals. And how many jews do you know, and how many have expressed the hate you say they feel? Could it be that you're talking out your posterior?

    @55 anonymouse: “Jews do not hate evangelicals. I know this for a fact because” I AM A VERY SPECIAL SNOWFLAKE!

    Pew Poll Finds Jews Prefer Muslims to Evangelicals

  96. @nebulafox
    Russian and Ukrainian immigrants, very much unlike the Central Americans, tend to be pretty skilled people. One of the reasons Israel was so enthusiastic about the aliyah wave of the 90s was because the emigrants were usually products of the Soviet mathematical education system. This brings its own problems, of course-the Russia Mafia causes such trouble worldwide in part because it is probably the brainiest bunch of criminals in world history, specializing in white-collar crime that is perfect for the 21st Century. Israel faces massive issues with it because of the Russian exodus there-but nevertheless, you don't really have to worry about them adding to the troubles America is already going to face with a rapidly automatized-out-of-the-workforce working class, strained budget, stratified social structure, yadda, yadda yadda.

    (*Legal* African immigrants in the USA-not the refugees that Europe so foolishly let run rampant, like the Somalis up in Minnesota-similarly perform well. They have double the college attainment of native whites, 4x that of African-Americans. And if you think your average middle class white Maryland suburbanite has a negative opinion of Baltimore ghetto dwellers, talk to a Nigerian postdoc at JMU's medical center who witnesses the dysfunction up front every day and is completely untouched by Western political correctness.)

    @63 nebulafox: “*Legal* African immigrants in the USA . . . similarly perform well. They have double the college attainment of native whites . . . ”

    They’re just natural-born Americans! Send for more, add in Yan Shen’s Han genius cohort, and the future for children is assured. White children, however . . . they’re just not measuring up. Couldn’t possibly make it as future Americans. Well, you know what’s said about making an omelet – some eggs are more equal than others.

  97. @SFG
    Just tell them you're Ukrainian (in real life). They are 'on our side' and hence good. Most people won't be able to tell Ukrainian from Russian accents anyway. Heck, they can't tell Polish from Russian accents.

    Polish, Czech, and Slovak accents in English are rather slight
    and vaguely Central European whereas Russian accents are
    very different, and instantly recognizable, at least to a European.
    Western Slavonic (Polish, Czech, Slovak, Lusatian, …) languages
    and Eastern Slavonic ones (Russian, Ukrainian, …) have
    completely different pronunciation systems, although Ukrainian
    is closer to Polish, and has often been described as “Polonized
    Russian” since Western Ukraine (and Belarus as well) have been
    for centuries within the Polish cultural realm. For 200 years or
    so the eastern border of the vast Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth
    lay 50 miles from Moscow, not through conquest but through
    a personal union between the rulers of Poland and Lithuania.

  98. @E. Rekshun
    By the way, this tragedy probably preserved Bill Cosby’s reputation for another 15 years. It totally eclipsed questions about a scandal involving Cosby in the news.


    "America taught our son's killer to hate African Americans," Camille Cosby, 07/08/98.

    @75 E. Rekshun: ““America taught our son’s killer to hate African Americans,” Camille Cosby, 07/08/98.”

    Thank you. I’m weary of all the clucks decrying muh double standard or muh hypocrisy. They hate Whites. They want you and your children dead and your history erased. I have no problem with one type of magic-paper Americans taking out another type of magic-dirt Americans.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    I'd cut the mother of a murdered child some slack over what she blurts out about her son's murder.
  99. @guest
    "How closely related are Poles and Russians"

    Don't ask a Russian or a Pole.

    The simplest answer is that genetically
    the Polish and the Russians are fairly close
    although when you visit Russia the most noticeable
    thing in large cities is the huge number of Central
    Asians (Tajiks, Kazakhs, etc,) and people from
    the Caucasus, i.e., a lot of people in Russia have
    slanted eyes. Except for about 60,000 Vietnamese,
    this is something you definitely don’t see in Poland.
    Poland currently has over a million Ukrainian workers
    and students on short-term (but renewable) visas, and
    growing numbers of gastarbeiters from Belarus and
    Russia, but culturally Poland has been in Central Europe
    for 1200 years, i.e., part of Western Christendom.

    There is a reason the Visegrad group came into being:
    Poland, Czechia, Slovakia, Hungary (and Austria) have
    been part of the same Catholic Central European culture,
    and this culture has had little to do with Russia. For example,
    the first universities in Poland and Czechia came into being
    in the 1300s whereas in Russia not until the early 1700s.
    Today, Poland and Russia have very little in common.
    Under the Soviet-imposed Communism Polish children
    were required (very reluctantly!) to study Russian whereas
    Russian children were free to study English. These days
    the population that was forced to study Russian is starting
    to die off, and so currently very few people in Poland know
    Russian, and there is no interest in learning it. On the other
    hand, the knowledge of English is very high, higher than in
    France or Germany.

  100. @Lot
    It is sad to see Gorka fired, but Trump is so erratic he may rehire Bannon and all the Brietbart people in a few months.

    Well, Trump was a fan of the late George Steinbrenner, so–you never know…

  101. @Studley
    Influence of the French wine industry as a catalyst for the French Revolution would be a good scholarly work. A Tale of Two Cities, the film with Dirk Bogarde, there is a scene where the sans culottes, Madam Defarge looking on, swoop on a broken wine barrel in the street and scoop it up.

    It just seems unlikely. That the great explosion in Paris could have actually been caused by a shortage of wine supplies.

    Wellington v. Napoleon at Waterloo, though. First two sober generals on the battlefield? Meanwhile out in Sydney, Australia, which the British Army is supplying, they have this. The redcoats get so upset over alcohol rules that they.. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rum_Rebellion

    Not enough wine for the masses? Or was it that they were deprived all the way around? I love that scene in TOTC, BTW. Madame Defarge is one of the best characters in fiction.

    When I read of these mass quantities of alcohol consumed in some former times, I can only hold my forehead in pain. If I have even one glass of wine without food my head feels like it’s going to explode.

    • Replies: @Lot
    Good wine and beer has about 50% more alcohol than 300 years ago. It was also sometimes diluted even weaker.
    , @Ivy
    Alcohol-induced headaches often correlate with tannins, so avoid the Cabernets and Pinots and try Merlot if you like red wines. For beers, some recommend the lighter Japanese brands, so have with some sushi. A Moldovan friend swears by fat intake (pick your poison) before drinking, to slow the metabolism of alcohol. That is similar to the old-time farmer cup of cream premedy before a night on the town.

    Many medications also interact negatively with alcohol. I know people who were able to reduce or eliminate headaches by cutting down on what they came to realize were over-prescribed meds. They weren't big drinkers, but did want to enjoy a glass with dinner and skip the pain.
  102. @Anatoly Karlin
    I'm quite familiar with this class of Ukrainians, there's a concentration of them around Sacramento.

    They tend to be honest and affable, though extremely religious and frankly rather dim. They also have hordes of children.

    Personal anecdote:

    One of my friends was once invited to lunch by one such person - let's call her Halyna - and she brought me along. We noticed Halyna wasn't wearing a seatbelt as we drove to her house. When we pointed that out, she told us that "God is watching me." After an awkward silence, my friend logically pointed out, "But what if God is looking the other way at some unfortunate moment?" After a few moments of ponderation, Halyna agreed and fastened her seatbelt after all.

    After lunch we were invited to a Bible study session at the house of another person in that community. We politily declined.

    My impression is that though they were ultra-religious, they were not especially nationalist; they mingled freely with fundamentalist Russian emigres (though there were at least 10x fewer of them than Ukrainians, of whom most of whom came from the far west). I suppose this is unsurprising since Christianity is universalistic, so after a certain point of religiosity - and they pretty much max out that stats tree - nationalism has nowhere to go but down. I think they voted more or less uniformly for Trump.

    Yeah, these people are taking over the independent homeschooling movement. So far, so good. They are so conservative and fundamentalist it’s sort of shocking. I doubt their kids will have the gigantic families, though. They want good outcomes for all six little darlings and there just isn’t enough time in the day to tiger-mother that many.

    And man, do they hate the commies.

  103. As to alcoholism and homicide a surprising number of serial killers were alcoholics: Ted Bundy, John Wayne Gacy (both Bundy and Gacy were drunk when arrested), Henry Lee Lucas, Dean Corll, Wayne Henley and Jeffrey Dahmer.

    Several other alcoholic murderers are mentioned in my book, https://www.amazon.com/Vessels-Rage-Engines-Power-Alcoholism/dp/0963024248/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1503865202&sr=1-1&keywords=vessels+of+rage.

    If I ever write a second edition I would add O J Simpson,

    http://vesselsofrage.blogspot.com/2017/08/o-j-simpson.html

  104. @utu
    Jews do not hate evangelicals.

    Why would you hate your useful idiots? Contempt will suffice.

    I’m trying to remember the lines from Portnoy’s Complaint in which Roth tries to convey the cognitive dissonance of having contempt for everything “the shiksa” thinks and stands for, while at the same time being driven mad by lust for her. It’s amusing and yet disturbing when one considers the influence these people have had on our culture and people.”How can she be so…healthy?!”

  105. @Steve Sailer
    Finns have pretty high homicide rates for Western Europeans. They have lots of hunting rifles, axes, and they drink hard.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hajnal_line

    Add in Greece more of Central Europe and Southern Spain and you have a low violent crime map.

  106. @3g4me
    @75 E. Rekshun: "“America taught our son’s killer to hate African Americans,” Camille Cosby, 07/08/98."

    Thank you. I'm weary of all the clucks decrying muh double standard or muh hypocrisy. They hate Whites. They want you and your children dead and your history erased. I have no problem with one type of magic-paper Americans taking out another type of magic-dirt Americans.

    I’d cut the mother of a murdered child some slack over what she blurts out about her son’s murder.

    • Replies: @Malcolm X-Lax
    I remember you said that last time this subject came up in the comments. I like this Mona Charen response to Camille Cosby's Grief. One can cut her slack but also be truthful when confronting bullshit.

    https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/soc.culture.african.american/PGO50f1t4l4

    Of course, I find Camille much less sympathetic these days, knowing what we know now about what she knew and countenanced then.
  107. @StillCARealist
    Not enough wine for the masses? Or was it that they were deprived all the way around? I love that scene in TOTC, BTW. Madame Defarge is one of the best characters in fiction.

    When I read of these mass quantities of alcohol consumed in some former times, I can only hold my forehead in pain. If I have even one glass of wine without food my head feels like it's going to explode.

    Good wine and beer has about 50% more alcohol than 300 years ago. It was also sometimes diluted even weaker.

  108. @Yan Shen
    You may be right about different ethnicities in the US, but I was thinking more along global lines. For instance, you don't really hear that much about the British mafia or the Finnish mafia or the Canadian mafia, but Italian and Russian mobsters are very much in our national consciousness.

    Stereotypes aside, I tried to look up some actual numbers. I'm sure the methodology isn't super precise and it seems like different countries have different years that the data was reported for, but for intentional homicides per 100,000 people we have the following below. (Note, I assume intentional homicide by definition excludes failed murder attempts.)

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate

    Russia at 11.3 and Lithuania at 6 seem fairly high. Ukraine also comes in at 4.36. On the other hand Italy and Greece are fairly low at .85 and .78 respectively, so maybe the stereotype of Southern Europeans is a bit off, Italian mobsters aside.

    East Asian numbers also seem expected. Taiwan leads the pack at .82, while China and South Korea are both at .74. Japan is .31, Hong Kong .30, and Singapore .25. Many of the countries of Northern Europe are also within that range.

    The African and Latin American numbers are quite absurd, especially the latter, and don't surprise me that much. It is curious to note though that Russia would rank 9th out of the 56 African countries.

    Since Mr. Derbyshire seems deeply interested in the subject of differential crime rates, perhaps we can get an article from him one of these days analyzing why Russians and other Eastern Europeans seem to be significantly more violent than their other European counterparts, at times basically veering into black and Hispanic territory. Walking through the hood here in the states may not be all that safe, but honestly it seems like walking through large parts of Russia probably isn't either...

    “For instance, you don’t really hear that much about the British mafia or the Finnish mafia or the Canadian mafia, but Italian and Russian mobsters are very much in our national consciousness.”

    The second and best season of the Fargo TV series is set in 1979 and involves a German-American crime family in North Dakota and rural MN resisting a larger multiethnic mob family’s attempt to take over.

    Great show, the top actors and perfect action sequences of early Tarantino without the affected stagey dialog and with far better sets.

  109. @Steve Sailer
    I'd cut the mother of a murdered child some slack over what she blurts out about her son's murder.

    I remember you said that last time this subject came up in the comments. I like this Mona Charen response to Camille Cosby’s Grief. One can cut her slack but also be truthful when confronting bullshit.

    https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/soc.culture.african.american/PGO50f1t4l4

    Of course, I find Camille much less sympathetic these days, knowing what we know now about what she knew and countenanced then.

  110. @utu

    https://ageofrevolutions.com/2016/12/05/intoxication-and-the-french-revolution/
     

    "Perhaps around 300 liters of wine were drunk in Paris per year per adult male on the eve of the Revolution, as opposed to 20 liters of beer and six liters of cider."
     
    Contrary to common belief revolutions happens when things get better not worse. But after the revolution it got even better at least in terms of drinking.

    "The association of drinking and the conquest of power by ‘the people’ was remarkable in 1791 – by articulating demands in terms of consumption, ordinary citizens insisted that liberty and equality be made material, physical and substantive – in essence, that they could be tasted."
     

    The cider consumption is typically alcoholic cidre. Normandy and other nearby agricultural areas grow a lot of apples and pears. Wine growing parts of France are further south (e.g., Loire Valley, Bordeaux) or east/southeast (e.g., Champagne, Burgundy).

    Try a glass or two of cidre with a crêpe, a tasty snack on a blustery day admiring Monet’s Honfleur or similar vista.

  111. @StillCARealist
    Not enough wine for the masses? Or was it that they were deprived all the way around? I love that scene in TOTC, BTW. Madame Defarge is one of the best characters in fiction.

    When I read of these mass quantities of alcohol consumed in some former times, I can only hold my forehead in pain. If I have even one glass of wine without food my head feels like it's going to explode.

    Alcohol-induced headaches often correlate with tannins, so avoid the Cabernets and Pinots and try Merlot if you like red wines. For beers, some recommend the lighter Japanese brands, so have with some sushi. A Moldovan friend swears by fat intake (pick your poison) before drinking, to slow the metabolism of alcohol. That is similar to the old-time farmer cup of cream premedy before a night on the town.

    Many medications also interact negatively with alcohol. I know people who were able to reduce or eliminate headaches by cutting down on what they came to realize were over-prescribed meds. They weren’t big drinkers, but did want to enjoy a glass with dinner and skip the pain.

    • Replies: @StillCARealist
    Thanks for the suggestions, Ivy. The best solution for me is to avoid alcohol. I'm not 25 anymore.

    Now, what can I do to sleep better? I've tried melatonin and various sleep aids, but nothing really works. I wake up after 3 hours of sleep and am awake for 2-3 hours, then sleep for another 2-3. I never get a good chunk of sleep.

    This is such a common problem that I wish Steve would do an entire posting on it so people who have found a magic formula could help the rest of us.
  112. @Engage_PoopChutes
    Im a Ukrainian immigrant to NA, been here 15 years. I've worked and contributed, currently employed in the oilfield.

    Although I agree with SSailer's viewpoint on immigration to this fine land, a thought bothers me. Am I not part of the same diluent that is dissolving the north american white anglosphere?

    I'd like to think of myself as better than "irregular" Somalis, but the main purpose for my family's initial move was better economy. Does that make me yet another diverse locust?

    I’m a Canadian. I personally would have no problem with you immigrating to Canada.

    I’m not as strict on immigration as many. I’m fine with far east Asians and subcontinentals (India/Pakistan), except if they’re Muslims.

    No doubt that many Muslims are fine people but we can’t tell the nutjobs from the non-fanatics. Plus Islam is plain toxic.

    That said, we shouldn’t accept so many in such a short time that infrastructure (including medical care) are affected. Thanks to wildly permitting huge numbers to come here in a short time, we have already seen has this effect.

    And yes, a large influx does drive down wages. We need to slow down the rate.

  113. @Zach
    Any idea about the crime rates for Albanians, Croats, and Serbs?

    One hears about the Albanian mafia in the New York City but you can never tell with those people… there are a lot of wannabes around these parts.

  114. @Steve Sailer
    A pretty horrible and memorable example of white-on-black violent crime. Ennis Cosby was driving on the 405 to the San Fernando Valley, got a flat tire, pulled over near Mulholland Drive, and this carjacker murdered him.

    By the way, this tragedy probably preserved Bill Cosby's reputation for another 15 years. It totally eclipsed questions about a scandal involving Cosby in the news.

    Leave it Steve Sailer to find a silver lining in a grotesque tragedy…

  115. @Mr. Anon

    And at the risk of digressing, can we also stop pretending that “goy” is derived from the Hebrew word for “cattle”?
     
    Sure, can we also stop pretending that - only being derived from the Hebrew for "nations", not "cattle" - the word "goy" is never used as a perjorative?

    “>can we also stop pretending that …the word “goy” is never used as a pejorative?”

    Sure. And as long as we’re being magnanimously evenhanded, I will note that if ever I should hear the word “Jew” spoken at me from behind a pointed finger, that’s probably not going to be from anyone trying to pay me a compliment, either. ‘Round and ’round it goes.

    (And while I’m at it, I should not have said that Markhasev was the one who put his memorabilia on sale at murder-collectors-inc. or whatever that site is. It could have been anyone that corresponded with him at any time, perhaps without his knowledge.)

  116. @Studley

    A party of gentlemen who got together at a pub might consume four bottles of port apiece.
     
    Yes. I read once that the Duke of Wellington before he was the Iron Duke and serving in India wrote that he was a very moderate drinker and only had 4 glasses of wine at evening dinner. So one can imagine what his fellow officers were putting down.

    Would have made sense out in India with the bad water but whether the bad water continued in Britain and it was only when the public authorities got on top of it that this moderated British alcohol consumption for high and low alike rather than Victorian moral attitudes is an interesting question.

    Would have made sense out in India with the bad water but whether the bad water

    Due to the diruretic effect of drinking wine, even more water would need to be consumed.

  117. @Ivy
    Alcohol-induced headaches often correlate with tannins, so avoid the Cabernets and Pinots and try Merlot if you like red wines. For beers, some recommend the lighter Japanese brands, so have with some sushi. A Moldovan friend swears by fat intake (pick your poison) before drinking, to slow the metabolism of alcohol. That is similar to the old-time farmer cup of cream premedy before a night on the town.

    Many medications also interact negatively with alcohol. I know people who were able to reduce or eliminate headaches by cutting down on what they came to realize were over-prescribed meds. They weren't big drinkers, but did want to enjoy a glass with dinner and skip the pain.

    Thanks for the suggestions, Ivy. The best solution for me is to avoid alcohol. I’m not 25 anymore.

    Now, what can I do to sleep better? I’ve tried melatonin and various sleep aids, but nothing really works. I wake up after 3 hours of sleep and am awake for 2-3 hours, then sleep for another 2-3. I never get a good chunk of sleep.

    This is such a common problem that I wish Steve would do an entire posting on it so people who have found a magic formula could help the rest of us.

    • Replies: @Ivy
    If you ever do shift work, you hear about a lot of sleep issues. Here are ideas that people have tried with some success. To the average person, many seem odd, but to the sleep-deprived, any potential relief is welcome. YMMV.

    Regular exercise
    No caffeine after lunch, as stimulative effects can linger
    Sleep study to see if you have sleep apnea, then follow treatment regimen
    Nose and airways exam as polyps or deviated septum can worsen over time and impair breathing
    SAD light to reset diurnal rhythm, use in a.m.
    Limit computer use late in the day due to impact of blue spectrum light on brain stimulation
    (F.lux extension adjusts monitor to approximate daylight and nighttime light spectrum, but makes screen colors look pretty weird at night with more orange and less blue)
    Try to maintain waking and sleeping regular hours
    More sex
    New mattress
    New pillows
    Cooler nighttime temperature
    Break up routine every so often with some travel or new stimuli to reset your thoughts
    Try a sensory deprivation tank to see if that helps you relax
    Waterbed (remember those)
    Cognitive therapy
    Hypnotherapy
    Have pharmacist review meds and vitamin or herbal supplements for
    Eat at regular hours, don't snack in evening, indigestion inhibits restful sleep
    Sound machine with rain or ocean wave sounds
    Blackout curtains
    Move to a new abode with less noise, more distance to neighbors
  118. @Engage_PoopChutes
    Im a Ukrainian immigrant to NA, been here 15 years. I've worked and contributed, currently employed in the oilfield.

    Although I agree with SSailer's viewpoint on immigration to this fine land, a thought bothers me. Am I not part of the same diluent that is dissolving the north american white anglosphere?

    I'd like to think of myself as better than "irregular" Somalis, but the main purpose for my family's initial move was better economy. Does that make me yet another diverse locust?

    your children will be neurotic about their cabbage and beet eating dad, your grandchildren will disappear into the great soy mass of americana.

    Somalians will still be chimping 3 generations in.

  119. “Give me ONLY your wretched trash. Keep the good stuff.”

  120. @StillCARealist
    Thanks for the suggestions, Ivy. The best solution for me is to avoid alcohol. I'm not 25 anymore.

    Now, what can I do to sleep better? I've tried melatonin and various sleep aids, but nothing really works. I wake up after 3 hours of sleep and am awake for 2-3 hours, then sleep for another 2-3. I never get a good chunk of sleep.

    This is such a common problem that I wish Steve would do an entire posting on it so people who have found a magic formula could help the rest of us.

    If you ever do shift work, you hear about a lot of sleep issues. Here are ideas that people have tried with some success. To the average person, many seem odd, but to the sleep-deprived, any potential relief is welcome. YMMV.

    Regular exercise
    No caffeine after lunch, as stimulative effects can linger
    Sleep study to see if you have sleep apnea, then follow treatment regimen
    Nose and airways exam as polyps or deviated septum can worsen over time and impair breathing
    SAD light to reset diurnal rhythm, use in a.m.
    Limit computer use late in the day due to impact of blue spectrum light on brain stimulation
    (F.lux extension adjusts monitor to approximate daylight and nighttime light spectrum, but makes screen colors look pretty weird at night with more orange and less blue)
    Try to maintain waking and sleeping regular hours
    More sex
    New mattress
    New pillows
    Cooler nighttime temperature
    Break up routine every so often with some travel or new stimuli to reset your thoughts
    Try a sensory deprivation tank to see if that helps you relax
    Waterbed (remember those)
    Cognitive therapy
    Hypnotherapy
    Have pharmacist review meds and vitamin or herbal supplements for
    Eat at regular hours, don’t snack in evening, indigestion inhibits restful sleep
    Sound machine with rain or ocean wave sounds
    Blackout curtains
    Move to a new abode with less noise, more distance to neighbors

    • Replies: @Ivy
    Polyphasic sleep works for some people.
  121. @Ivy
    If you ever do shift work, you hear about a lot of sleep issues. Here are ideas that people have tried with some success. To the average person, many seem odd, but to the sleep-deprived, any potential relief is welcome. YMMV.

    Regular exercise
    No caffeine after lunch, as stimulative effects can linger
    Sleep study to see if you have sleep apnea, then follow treatment regimen
    Nose and airways exam as polyps or deviated septum can worsen over time and impair breathing
    SAD light to reset diurnal rhythm, use in a.m.
    Limit computer use late in the day due to impact of blue spectrum light on brain stimulation
    (F.lux extension adjusts monitor to approximate daylight and nighttime light spectrum, but makes screen colors look pretty weird at night with more orange and less blue)
    Try to maintain waking and sleeping regular hours
    More sex
    New mattress
    New pillows
    Cooler nighttime temperature
    Break up routine every so often with some travel or new stimuli to reset your thoughts
    Try a sensory deprivation tank to see if that helps you relax
    Waterbed (remember those)
    Cognitive therapy
    Hypnotherapy
    Have pharmacist review meds and vitamin or herbal supplements for
    Eat at regular hours, don't snack in evening, indigestion inhibits restful sleep
    Sound machine with rain or ocean wave sounds
    Blackout curtains
    Move to a new abode with less noise, more distance to neighbors

    Polyphasic sleep works for some people.

  122. @The Anti-Gnostic
    If you say, 'A and B, therefore C,' Corvinus would meticulously argue that A is not C. Then the comment thread veers off as people chase down all the non sequiturs and strawmen. That's actually more irritating than a stupid blind troll who comes in and blunders around.

    There's a larger point: the cucks bleating about 'Muh American Proposition!' are more insidious than the outright bolsheviks who want to eradicate the only people in human history who dreamed up the Proposition and maintain it. Look at the nominal conservatives who supported Evan McMullin for the sole purpose of throwing the Electoral College to Hillary.

    “If you say, ‘A and B, therefore C,’ Corvinus would meticulously argue that A is not C. Then the comment thread veers off as people chase down all the non sequiturs and strawmen. That’s actually more irritating than a stupid blind troll who comes in and blunders around.”

    I markedly increased your blog traffic, and all I got was this lousy t-shirt.

    “There’s a larger point: the cucks bleating about ‘Muh American Proposition!’ are more insidious than the outright bolsheviks who want to eradicate the only people in human history who dreamed up the Proposition and maintain it. Look at the nominal conservatives who supported Evan McMullin for the sole purpose of throwing the Electoral College to Hillary.”

    Preserving rights “for one’s posterity” was the legal repudiation of feudalism, which stated liberties were a grant from a monarch and the State, and reverted upon his/her death. That is, fundamental freedoms were NOT passed to future generations. The Declaration and the Federalist Papers in particular destroys that feudalist notion. More importantly, Article I, Section 8, Clause 4, as a component of our Constitution and reflects original intent, granted Congress and NOT the States the authority to establish uniform rules of naturalization. By definition, naturalization extends citizenship, and the liberties related to it, to an “outsider”.

    So, the drafters of our Constitution and the adopting state s fully comprehended the new Congress would have to power to receive immigrants and set forth the standards under which they are naturalized. Citizenship therefore is NOT exclusively confined to the British. This means this argument that the franchise of citizenship is meant to be confined solely to the British children of rebel British subjects is not reflected in the clear meaning of the document. Since immigration was allowed to the United States, at first to Europeans but later extended to non-Europeans, the “posterity” includes more than the actual descendants of residents of our great nation at that time.

    But, but, but “[the Constitution] did allow for the possibility of change. But change, by definition, is not the previous state. And the original purpose of the Constitution cannot change, obviously.” Well, a contract, which essentially is what is our Constitution, that has an amendment process is NOT meant to remain constant. It has no original purpose but to establish exactly what the Preamble states. Posterity does not refer to the progeny of the founders but of the People as a whole. While this population was primarily of British descent, the Dutch, Germans, Irish, Scots, French, Africans, and Native Americans ALL fought to remove the shackles of tyranny from Great Britain.

    Posterity is synonymous with “legacy”–what we leave behind. Indeed, few, if any, had imagined when the Constitution was created that anyone BUT a white European had the intellectual capacity to embrace Republican principles of government…YET the criterion of commitment to those ideas is NOT itself racial or ethnic specific. Of course, that does NOT mean foreigners have the right to enter our shores, and it is legitimate, although in my opinion unreasonable, to doubt that non-white groups are equal to the task to embrace such principles.

    Ultimately, the American identity has not been lost within the past 60 years, it just has transformed, similar to when the Thirteen Colonies began as primarily British, but subsumed other European groups who were historic rivals, and eventually non-Europeans. The Welsh, the Cornish, Bavarians, the Catalans–they were distinct sub-Europeans groups, but over generations they intermingled and dispersed in our great land. Americans are a mixture of European and non-European ethnostates who, like any and all groups, self-identify. They know who they are and where they come from, and create groups who share their self-identities. Furthermore, the default for American is American and not a particular race, regardless of one’s willingness to admit it this decided fact. When you call yourself a black American or a Chinese American, you are still an American, as in residing in the nation referred as the United States. And while Yankees and Southerners and Midwesterners are clearly different, they are not separate “tribes” or “nations”, just locations with groups of people who self-identify geographically, socially, and culturally.

    This proposition nation is the direct result of indoctrination…from our Founding Fathers.

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