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The New People of Los Angeles vs. the Old Mexicans
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iSteve commenter Alden writes:

One thing I’ve noticed in Los Angeles. The hispanic immigrants live in crowded conditions only because of finances. As soon as they can afford a single family 3 bedroom home or condo they buy one and live the nuclear family life. The young people, especially the men leave home before marriage and live with roommates or alone if they can afford it which is not easy in Los Angeles. That’s mostly 3rd and occasionally 2nd generation hispanics with good affirmative action government jobs.

Mexicans don’t really like living too closely with other Mexicans. They don’t like sharing a wall. They’re kind of like the Scots-Irish in wanting space and separation. Former Mexican foreign secretary Jorge G. Castañeda pointed out in his book “Mañana Forever? Mexico and the Mexicans” that almost all the new housing built in Mexico in the early 21st Century were single family homes, because Mexicans don’t like living in apartment buildings.

Aerial pictures of new developments in Mexico look nuts: an insane density of 800 square foot mini-houses that would have been cheaper to build as apartment buildings. But Mexicans don’t like sharing a wall with other Mexicans. Castaneda points out that South American cities tend to have high rises and public transport because immigrants from Spain and Italy didn’t mind living that way, but Mexico has single family house sprawl and traffic jams because Mexicans want to live like Texans.

See Wired’s 2018 article

Aerial Views of Mexico’s Dystopian Housing Developments

So as soon as they can afford it, they take to American suburban sprawl of single family homes, with maybe one nephew from Mexico sleeping on the couch. That’s one reason Mexicans are getting squeezed out of Los Angeles: they can’t afford to live like they want.

But a lot of the New People in Los Angeles don’t mind crowding an extended family into a fancy house. This concept of the New People in Los Angeles is something I talk about, but we don’t really have a vocabulary for it. I sort of think of them as “Greater Armenians:” Russians, Persians, Lebanese, Israelis, Turks, etc etc. People who may not like Armenians, but who also view Armenians as clever decision-makers, so they flow toward places where Armenians have thrived over the last century, such as Los Angeles.

The Greater Armenians also like what we think of as single family homes, but fill them with their extended family, e.g., Cousin Aram and his uncle-in-law.

But the Asians, Indians, even Persians and Armenians Russians Israelis live in the same crowded conditions as they do back home. It’s amazing, those 4,5000k mc mansions with 25 people living in them. Maybe that’s how they can all afford to drive $70,000 cars. That’s how the Chinese have taken over vast miles of San Francisco. Buy one little 2 bedroom rowhouse, set up a sweatshop in the garage and crowd 25 people in the house. Save their money and buy the next house that comes up for sale in the neighborhood. And of course the zoning and fire regulations have never ever never been enforced against the Chinese. That’s why parking is so bad in many city neighborhoods. Homes and condos with 2 car garages often have at least 10 adults with cars living in them. So 8 cars need street parking.

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  1. Daniel H says:

    It’s amazing, those 4,5000k mc mansions with 25 people living in them. Maybe that’s how they can all afford to drive $70,000 cars. That’s how the Chinese have taken over vast miles of San Francisco.

    A Cuck’s dream. Natural Republicans all. Right.

    • Replies: @Anon
  2. DCThrowback says: • Website

    the first thing the drug dealers in “dreamland” would buy when they got some cash was levi’s 501 jeans.

    then when they went home w/ $$ to Xalisco, they built single family homes.

    Quinones, LA Times, 2010:

    “Xalisco ostensibly still depends on sugar cane. But it is now among the top 5% of Mexican counties in terms of wealth, according to a government report.

    Enormous houses with tile roofs and marble floors have gone up everywhere. In immigrant villages across Mexico, people build the first stories of houses and leave iron reinforcing bars protruding skyward until they save the money to add second stories. Often the wait is measured in years. In Xalisco, homes go up all at once.”

    • Replies: @Expletive Deleted
  3. Cortes says:

    Armenians feature in Wambaugh’s Hollywood Station novels as businessmen, enablers of gangsterism, sad tweakers &c. And of course one of the greatest CA writers = Saroyan. Has a finer short story than “The Daring Young Man…” ever been written?

    On the Mexican housing issue: I was astonished by the area extent of Mexico City on flying into the airport in ? 1982 and only on the ground could I grasp that outside the relatively small city centre the whole conurbation was basically composed of one-storey buildings.

    • Replies: @Mr McKenna
  4. Anon[147] • Disclaimer says:
    @Daniel H

    As long as they’re pro-Israel, it’s all good.

  5. But Mexicans don’t like sharing a wall with other Mexicans.

    Does anybody?

    Homes and condos with 2 car garages often have at least 10 adults with cars living in them. So 8 cars need street parking

    Why would they waste precious garage space on cars? Cars don’t pay rent.

  6. Anon[207] • Disclaimer says:

    Sounds like BS. 25 adults are living in McMansions and rowhouses? And they all have $75K cars? Aside from isolated cases, I’ve never seen much evidence for this, even though it’s a common trope from (understandably) not exactly disinterested and objective observers like Alden. Vancouver has an even bigger problem with real estate and Chinese owned McMansions are being rented out cheap to college kids because otherwise they’d be vacant:

    “College Kids Are Living Like Kings in Vancouver’s Empty Mansions”

    • Replies: @stillCARealist
  7. Lot says:

    I saw on Peter Frost’s blog a reference to Ron Unz’s self-published 2012 “study” claiming American Jewish achievement was declining, which Jewcounted the Math Olympaid winners.

    I decided to check this out myself, but using the Putnam Competition, which is similar but limited to US and Canadian colleges.

    Most winners are NE Asians, with plenty of S Asians as well, with a high proportion of Asian first names indicating recent immigrants or foreign students.

    Looking only at the non-Asian surnamed, there were 16 such individuals who placed in the top 5 between 2005-2018.

    1 of the 16 turned out to be a hapa with a likely Jewish father.

    Of the remaining 15 that were white, 5 were certainly or very likely AJs, 10 were not. That suggests an AJ/non-AJ-white over representation of about 10x in Putnam competition winners.

    Of the 5 who I believe are AJs, two certainly are: one lived in Tel Aviv for a while, another had prominent academic parents with very Jewish names. The remaining three have common but not exclusive AJ surnames and pictures that look at least moderately AJ-typical. Of the 10 I identified as non-AJ, all appeared to be mostly or entirely Northern European, disproportionately with thin builds, light blond phenotypes, and rare British surnames (e.g., Pixton).

    All of the white winners were men as well. Before 2005 it appears a woman would be among the top 5 every 2 or 3 years, but none since then.

  8. trelane says:

    And what was the point of this analysis? It escaped me sir.

    • Replies: @Mr McKenna
  9. trelane says:

    The general rule of thumb is 1 car per apartment. A 100-unit building should have at least 90 car spaces and preferably more, say 100 spaces. That’s for market-based, market (or private) rent buildings.

    • Replies: @(((Owen)))
  10. @Lot

    “1 of the 16 turned out to be a hapa with a likely Jewish father.“

    There was a hapa in 2014 whose father is not Jewish.

    • Replies: @Lot
  11. Anon[319] • Disclaimer says:

    Save their money and buy the next house that comes up for sale in the neighborhood.

    I live in a nice neighborhood built in the late ’50s – early ’60s, nearly all White, half retirees, w/i walking distance of a decent university. A handful of student rentals, including the Chinese across the street from me. The other day, as I was doing some lawn work, the owner came up to me and asked if I wanted to sell. Nope. He doesn’t know that, last week, I called Code Enforcement on his tenants for continually leaving their trash cans at the street after pick-up day.

  12. istevefan says:

    Aerial pictures of new developments in Mexico look nuts: an insane density of 800 square foot mini-houses that would have been cheaper to build as apartment buildings.

    It would have been cheaper to just use SEA-LAND containers.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
  13. Anon[320] • Disclaimer says:

    “Greater Armenians.” Your attention to improving your coinage game is showing. How hilarious! The fact that New Armenians doesn’t encompass Armenians. The vaguest hint of, what?, bigotry that isn’t there when looked for, but which annoys those you want to annoy.

  14. Dave Pinsen says: • Website

    That’s why parking is so bad in many city neighborhoods. Homes and condos with 2 car garages often have at least 10 adults with cars living in them. So 8 cars need street parking.

    Orthodox Jews in Shmuley Boteach’s hometown of Englewood, NJ take a different tack (though they generally have more children than adults per house): buy expensive old house with nice yard, then demolish it, and build a McMansion with a 3 or 4 car garage on the same lot, sacrificing most of the yard.

    • Replies: @william munny
  15. Lot says:
    @Calvin Hobbes

    I didn’t look into him after seeing the photo because I was confining myself to whites. Here he is

    Most of the people who have the name Sellke on google appear to be doctors, dentists, or academics centered on Chicago.

    • Replies: @An9ono
  16. “800 square foot mini-houses”. This sounds like the Company Housing the Robbet Barons built for their workers.

  17. Does it take 32 Mexicans to swindle an Armenian?

    • Replies: @Paul
  18. @istevefan

    It would have been cheaper to just use SEA-LAND containers.

    From the early days of the container revolution:

    Sea-Land had been sailing to San Juan since 1958, but its service was less than exemplary. It owned no terminal. Incoming containers with freight for multiple customers were unstuffed in old aluminum warehouses near the dock, where the contents often sat for months because there was no system for notifying customers that their freight had arrived. Containers trucked elsewhere on the island tended to disappear, to be converted into shops, storage sheds, or homes.

    –The Box , Marc Levinson

  19. Bill P says:

    Maybe Mexicans have rational reasons for preferring single family homes that don’t have to do with cultural preference. Mexico is fairly seismically active, right? Would you want to live in a multi-story building constructed according to typical Mexican standards if you lived in an earthquake zone? Also, is it possible that fire safety standards are not very high in Mexico, and that a lot of poor Mexicans from the countryside are likely to engage in unsafe habits regarding cooking, heating, wiring, etc?

    There’s a lot of stuff first-world people just don’t think about or take for granted that you have to pay attention to in developing countries. I’ve lived in an apartment in a developing country before, and although I never felt like I was in immediate danger, now that I look back on it there were a lot of crazy stories I heard on a regular basis about people getting shocked, gassed (leaking gas), asphyxiated and burned, often fatally. It’s safer in that environment to live in a detached home. Also more sanitary.

    As for old LA Mexicans preferring detached homes, well, it makes sense. That was the norm in California when they arrived, after all. Back in the 80s LA had lots and lots of houses and not all that many apartment buildings. It isn’t as though they arrived from some slum or impoverished village in Europe and went right into NYC tenements. Actually, the 70s-early 2000s wave of Mexicans had it pretty good from a historical perspective. They went from a developing country directly to a spacious, first-world society with tons of reasonably priced houses in black neighborhoods that they were able to ethnically cleanse without any racial guilt. If I were one of them I’d want to shut the door behind me.

    • Agree: Triumph104
  20. Paul says:
    @Reg Cæsar

    The father of a friend of mine (who had a father who was Cherokee Indian and a white mother) once told me that Armenians were the only people who could out-Jew a Jew. All I know of Armenians is by reputation and the genocide by the Turks.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
  21. An9ono says:

    Sells is usually a German family name. One of Canada’s most prominent hockey families.

    • Replies: @Lot
  22. @Cortes

    But the city, she is beautiful, no?

    • LOL: Mr. Hack
    • Replies: @Don't Look at Me
  23. @trelane

    It’s a “Lot” post, Trelane. If you ask what the point is, you’re a Nazi.

  24. might as well compare and contrast the instruments being played on the deck of the titanic.

  25. Lot says:

    Search for Selke with one l turns up a lot of Germans. Sellke mostly turns up upscale Americans.

  26. M_Young says:

    Whatever they might *want*, large numbers of Mexicans are living 2 even 3 families to a house in R-1 zoned areas

    • Replies: @Anon7
  27. @Dave Pinsen

    The same in Lakewood NJ. The designs of the inside are insane and very alien. Separate facilities, strange layouts, etc. No backyards whatsoever, and then a continuing problem with children getting hit by cars in the street.

    • Replies: @Triumph104
  28. @william munny

    I saw a video of an Hasidic couple living in a 2 bedroom apartment in Israel with seven or nine children. The dining room served as both the father’s library and the boys’ bedroom. The bed had two or three nested cots underneath.

  29. Anon7 says:

    Has it been decided whether or not the 2020 census will allow a question about citizenship? All of these stories about packed houses makes me wonder if the illegal population of the USA exceeds even the 20-30 million people estimate.

    Of all the children, how many are even related? And how many are here to soak up the free education we thoughtfully provide to the planetary population, thanks to the SCOTUS?

  30. @Anon

    Poor people crowding into small homes is a universal phenomenon. When we had poor-ish renters, they were always bringing in relatives and friends to room with them temporarily. The parking situation in the neighborhood was terrible. The guys all drove big trucks (not worth 70k, however) that were too big for any garage not custom-designed. And the garage was always used for storage of crap that should have gone into a bonfire, not for parking a car.

    Here’s my exit question. Why can’t poor people ever throw stuff out? why keep that old junker in the backyard or the extra tires in the side yard? That trampoline that your kid broke and hasn’t used in 5 years? Get rid of it!

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    , @bomag
  31. “Mexicans don’t really like living too closely with other Mexicans. They don’t like sharing a wall”

    Mexicans don’t even like sharing Mexico with other Mexicans. Is that why they come over here?

    • Replies: @(((Owen)))
  32. Anonymous[344] • Disclaimer says:

    I assume you’re counting Putnam Competitions from 2006 up to and including 2018, because if I include 2005 I get 18 rather than 16 non-Asian surnames. The names I get are(with people presumably of Jewish descent marked with *):

    David Stoner: From small town South Carolina, appears to be from churchgoing family

    Joshua Brakensiek: Couldn’t find anything on background but every person I found with this surname appears to be of Christian background

    Thomas Swayze: From San Diego area, not particularly Jewish-sounding name

    Samuel Zbarsky*:Most people with this surname appear to be Jewish. Found a likely candidate for his grandfather(late/post-Soviet immigrant, which would explain why he speaks Russian). That being said, if the person in question was indeed of Jewish background, he wasn’t very religious, as his funeral service was not at a Jewish funeral home and had no rabbi officiating.

    Daniel Spivak*-Born in Tel Aviv, but irrelevant for purposes of discussing American Jewish achievement because he’s Canadian(lived there for most of his life, represented Canada at the IMO, did undergrad in Canada).

    Mark Sellke: At most half white or possible adoptee, so discarded

    Evan O’Dorney: Devout Catholic according to public profiles

    Benjamin Gunby: Could not find any evidence of him being Jewish or of anyone with his surname being Jewish

    Eric Larson: same

    Samuel Elder: Christian according to his website

    Brian Lawrence*: During Janet Mertz’s interaction with Unz regarding the Jewish/White Gentile part of his study, she brought Lawrence up as being half-Jewish(and missed by Unz)

    Colin Sandon: Only Jewish connection I could find among people with this surname was a presumably Jewish lady who married someone named Sandon but was a Roman Catholic at time of death.

    William A Johnson: Could not find any evidence of him being Jewish or of anyone with his surname being Jewish

    Jason Bland: same

    Aaron Pixton: same

    Daniel Kane*: (son of Janet Mertz)

    So out of 14 we have…2.5 Jews? Where do you get your extra 2.5, or are you weighing for people who were fellows more than once?

    The other problem with just counting surnames is that a when you’re looking at 18-22-year-olds(as you were) you run into huge numbers of people who might have Jewish surnames but one non-Jewish parent and vice versa. All else being equal my guess would be that an under 25 with a Jewish surname is way more likely to have significant non-Jewish ancestry than an under 25 with a European Christian name is to have Jewish ancestry just because of the the population ratio.

    • Replies: @Lot
  33. @DCThrowback

    people build the first stories of houses and leave iron reinforcing bars protruding skyward

    That’s a thing in Greece too. The Greeks deny it has anything to do with tax avoidance. Well they would, wouldn’t they?

    Wouldn’t work anywhere that has actual Weather, of course.

    • Replies: @EdwardM
  34. So let me get this straight.

    Whites who want to live in ugly, land-destroying, endless, empty, boring suburbs are good.

    But Mexicans who want to are bad.


  35. @Paul

    There are several versions of this old saw. This one was cited by Derb:

    It takes two Turks to cheat one Greek.
    It takes two Greeks to cheat one Arab.
    It takes two Arabs to cheat one Jew.
    It takes two Jews to cheat one Armenian

  36. Anonymous[344] • Disclaimer says:

    Sadly rich people are no different, they just have more room and thus accumulate more stuff before they(or perhaps their relatives) need to deal with it.

  37. bomag says:

    “Hoarding” mentality is a thing, and is something I haven’t seen studied much. It would seem to tie some threads together, like wealth beyond the ability to use it; the Scramble for America; large families; consumerism in general; etc.

  38. Lot says:

    I didn’t count multiple winners a second time and I excluded Sellke. I counted Golberg as Jewish based on Russian first name + German last name typically being Jewish. He also looks Jewish.

  39. @Anon7

    Political commentators often cite a SCOTUS decision as the reason why public edyukashun, in the US, is given away to foreigners.

    “Free” public edyukashun had been the rule long before the lawyer-justices became involved.

    Besides, the high tax burden generated by foreigners who illegally come into this country, in order to leech edyukashun (babysitting) services (and the other entitlements that compose the welfare magnet) is still a drop in the bucket compared to the tax expense of babysitting legals (e.g 2nd generation and native-borns).

  40. @trelane

    In the city, a 100 unit apartment should have zero parking. City people should get around on transit or bicycles.

    It is a bizarre practice in America to mandate that every building have attached parking. In most American cities, those 100 units are mandated to include 200+ parking spaces (taking up as much floor space as the apartments), which is the heart of why American cities are terrible.

  41. @Anon7

    The Supremes are now considering the Census question. An answer is expected this month.

    The illegal population is 13-16 million. The Census numbers have always been right and the bizarre estimates based on inferences from tiny samples are not credible. The major immigration restrictionist organizations agree with the Census.

    • Replies: @Anon7
  42. @Hamlet's Ghost

    They’re not coming. Net US-Mexican immigration has been zero since 2006.

  43. This, like much of Castañeda, is ignorant of actual life in Mexico.

    Mexico’s home ownership rate is 85%, higher than 65% in the USA, but most Mexican homes in cities do share a wall with neighbors. In the USA you might think of them as townhouses.

    And Mexicans like it that way.

    Note that only New York City in the USA comes close to the population density even of a typical small Mexican city.

  44. Anon7 says:

    Try this study instead:

    “Immigration is the focus of fierce political and policy debate in the United States. Among the most contentious issues is how the country should address undocumented immigrants. Like a tornado that won’t dissipate, arguments have spun around and around for years. At the center lies a fairly stable and largely unquestioned number: 11.3 million undocumented immigrants residing in the U.S. But a paper by three Yale-affiliated researchers suggests all the perceptions and arguments based on that number may have a faulty foundation; the actual population of undocumented immigrants residing in the country is much larger than that, perhaps twice as high, and has been underestimated for decades.

    Read the Yale study here:

    The number of undocumented immigrants in the United States: Estimates based on demographic modeling with data from 1990 to 2016

    • Replies: @(((Owen)))
  45. @Anon7

    The 22MM study was a big press sensation, but not a serious study and widely panned by profesional demographers, as Googling will confirm.

    • Replies: @Anon7
  46. EdwardM says:
    @Expletive Deleted

    Same in Egypt. A friend from Cairo claims that one doesn’t start paying taxes until a house is “finished” but that sounds like it may be a myth.

  47. I remember as a kid vacationing in Canada see rural houses that were unfinished on the outside. Someone told me it was to avoid the higher taxes levied on a “finished” home. Haven’t seen any in a while.

  48. Anon7 says:

    It’s true that many critical arguments can be found. OTOH, the authors of the new study hold important academic chairs, they put their academic reputations on the line, and offer new data sources and new models:

    “Given the inherent challenge of relying on survey-based methodologies to identify this population, the authors took a very different approach. The new approach is based on operational data, such as border apprehensions, the number of people who overstay their visas and deportations, and demographic data, including emigration rates and mortality rates. They combine these data using a mathematical model that estimates and track population inflows and outflows.”

    Obviously, I’m in danger of cherry picking a study that I agree with.

    But, the last few years, I’ve been astounded and disgusted by “authorities” that I once respected, who I now believe are lying through their teeth.

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