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From the NYT Opinion page:

The Newest Jim Crow

Recent criminal justice reforms contain the seeds of a frightening system of “e-carceration.”

By Michelle Alexander, Nov. 8, 2018

Michelle Alexander became a New York Times columnist in 2018. She is a civil rights lawyer and advocate, legal scholar and author of “The New Jim Crow: Mass Incarceration in the Age of Colorblindness .”

… But what’s taking the place of cash bail may prove even worse in the long run. … And increasingly, computer algorithms are helping to determine who should be caged and who should be set “free.” Freedom — even when it’s granted, it turns out — isn’t really free.

Under new policies in California, New Jersey, New York and beyond, “risk assessment” algorithms recommend to judges whether a person who’s been arrested should be released. These advanced mathematical models — or “weapons of math destruction” as data scientist Cathy O’Neil calls them — appear colorblind on the surface but they are based on factors that are not only highly correlated with race and class, but are also significantly influenced by pervasive bias in the criminal justice system.

Maybe this sounds crazy, but I’ve got an idea for solving the problem of too many black men in jail, so let me just throw it out there. Here it goes:

Black men should try committing fewer crimes.

Okay, okay, I know, it’s too radical, it would never work in a million years. But still … You gotta admit it would be a win-win solution.

 
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  1. Nobody’s going to get their student loans paid off with that idea.

    But yeah, it needs saying. Often.

  2. Anonymous[537] • Disclaimer says:

    Jim Crow A Go Go
    Mega-Deluxe Jim Crow
    Son of Jim Crow
    Superfreakojim Crow
    JC 2000: The Jimmening

  3. Tyrion 2 says:

    TBH, I’m wondering when these people will notice the glaring gender gap in prison. Not enough women. Until it is exactly 50/50, I will not rest. Outrageous disparate impact.

    • Agree: Thomm, ic1000
  4. Anon[425] • Disclaimer says:

    Black men should try committing fewer crimes.

    Or non-blacks should commit more crimes.

    Let’s all rob the rich, esp in gentrified areas. It’s spreading the wealth around.

    • Replies: @Dansidea
  5. Anon[425] • Disclaimer says:
    @Tyrion 2

    TBH, I’m wondering when these people will notice the glaring gender gap in prison.

    The ONLY issue is blacks are sacred objects to manipulate ‘white guilt’. Proglob know why blacks end up in jail more. They know, yes they do. But they keep up with this Narrative to (1) guilt-bait whites and (2) keep blacks on the ‘left’ that supposedly cares about such things.

    But these patterns show up all over America, even in the most libby-dib places. Also, if anything, Jim Crow had the effect of suppressing black crime. Because blacks in the South feared white power and law enforcement, they policed themselves better.

    The real explosion in black crime that led to mass incarceration happened beginning in the 60s. And some of the biggest jailers of blacks were in northern Democratic areas. Stop and Frisk and Clintonite mass-imprisonment were examples of Jim Crowitz in NY.

    Now, if Libby-dibs want to release tons of blacks and let them loose in big cities, I’m fine with that. More fools will be mugged by reality.

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
    , @notanon
  6. Barnard says:

    Black men should try committing fewer crimes.

    The preferred solution from the New York Times and others appears to be that we should stop treating the crimes black men tend to commit as crimes. If they can successfully criminalize having bad thoughts, they can achieve the proper level of diversity in the prison population.

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
  7. Mr. Blank says:
    @Tyrion 2

    They are working on that. See the War on Beckys. Only a matter of time until Barbecue Becky becomes Gulag Greta.

  8. Anon[351] • Disclaimer says:

    The only reason the NYT cares is because it’s hard to vote Democrat when you’re locked up in a prison cell. All those white liberals writing the NYT don’t want more black crime in their neighborhoods.

  9. Anonymous[104] • Disclaimer says:

    Isn’t it a bit contradictory for the HBD crowd to say that “all black men have to do” is commit fewer crimes? HBD doesn’t posit that the absolute level of crime is intractable for each group but it does suggest that large relative crime gaps are ineradicable. In fact, the HBD perspective is arguably less cruel than an anti-HBD culturalist view that simply condemns black culture for everything that ails it.

  10. ‘Black men should try committing fewer crimes.’

    Lol. Speaking of implausible suggestions. We can move on to the barkless dog and babies who come out of the womb toilet trained.

    • Replies: @Art Deco
  11. @Barnard

    ‘…If they can successfully criminalize having bad thoughts, they can achieve the proper level of diversity in the prison population.’

    Actually, just criminalizing having thoughts at all should achieve a similar effect.

  12. @Anon

    ‘…Now, if Libby-dibs want to release tons of blacks and let them loose in big cities, I’m fine with that. More fools will be mugged by reality…’

    No, the victims will primarily be white trash, new immigrants, and other groups too poor to move away from said blacks.

    …the white liberals will take care to get themselves a safe distance away. The most aggravating aspect of it all is that by associating with only the most successful portion of the black population, and by squinting a bit, they’ll be able to continue to convince themselves their beliefs are valid.

    • Agree: Lot
  13. anon[163] • Disclaimer says:

    Too bad that the algorithms are color blind. The risk of release are the risks of reoffending and failure to show up in court. So, they don’t have to even commit fewer crimes, until they have been caught. And obtain a clock.

  14. Maybe this sounds crazy, but I’ve got an idea for solving the problem of too many black men in jail, so let me just throw it out there. Here it goes:

    Black men should try committing fewer crimes.

    As a matter of fact, Steve, your solution is radical – and crazy.

    In reality, you’re asking blacks to behave in a way that doesn’t suit their DNA in general. It’s no different than saying that the answer to the achievement gap is that “Blacks should study harder.”

    It’ll help, but it won’t solve the problem. More importantly, it’s a temporary solution. As soon as you stop forcing blacks to study so hard, they’ll stop and everything will revert back to where it was.

    Blacks aren’t White. Blacks don’t want to be White – though they do like all the stuff that we give them.

    The problem isn’t black criminality. Blacks will be blacks. The problem is putting blacks and Whites together into one society and expecting them to behave the same. Of all people, you should know that.

    We’re applying White societal standards to blacks. It’s not fair in many ways.

    Your solution that blacks should just magically commit fewer crimes actually would require a massive societal overhaul because we would be forcing blacks to fight their natural tendencies. To lower black crime, we’d need to go back to a very religious society where White norms are pushed down the throat of blacks and where White culture dominates. Blacks would still commit far more crimes than Whites, but they’ll commit less than they do now.

    Your simple solution in fact would be a reversing of all of the cultural changes that have occurred over the past 60 years. That’s pretty damn radical – and crazy.

  15. J.Ross says: • Website

    Every AI turns racist and/or sexist in hours unless hard controls are imposed. Why would that be? Is math bigoted?

    • Replies: @El Dato
    , @Forbes
  16. LondonBob says:

    Skynet will seek to reverse all the changes inflicted since the sixties, it is only logical.

  17. Been hanging around with Theodoric of York, Midaeval Barber, again, have you, Mr. Sailer?

  18. IHTG says:

    So, Malibu is burning to the ground or something. Couldn’t happen to a nicer bunch of people!

  19. Art Deco says:

    Tom McKenna, the Virginia prosecutor who has been an inveterate defender of capital sentencing in Catholic circles, has offered that the supposed alternatives to capital sentencing are humbug. When the public interest bar has persuaded appellate judges to pretend capital sentences are ‘unconstitutional’, their next project will be to persuade them to treat Life-without-Parole as unconstitutional. That achieved, their next target will be mandatory minimum sentences. And so on.

    And, here we go. The complaints about ‘mass incarceration’ are likewise humbug. Here, the law takes pecuniary resources out of the equation in decisions on preventive detention, and they’re still not happy. ‘Mass incarceration’ is code for ‘any incarceration’. Their real complaint is that courts punish, that they punish according to standards set by state legislatures, that state legislatures are responsive to a degree to ordinary people. All of this takes discretion away from the intelligentsia and their dependents and hangers-on and demands performance from ‘the marginalized’ rather than plying them with things. Mascots and clients of people like Michelle Alexander cannot properly be subject to sanctions defined by the sort of car dealers and real estate agents who land in state legislatures and administered by police officers and jail guards. The car dealers, real estate agents, cops, and turnkeys are getting above their station.

  20. She only touches on it with a word or two, but civil rights lawyers are trying to figure out who to sue in these situations, because that is what they do. If AI algorithms are the ones doing the discriminating, they need to use the tougher “disparate impact” theory of discrimination that often comes up in firefighter suits. But it is much more difficult than a typical case of disparate impact because in AI situations it is harder to make the causal connection because of the complicated and hidden nature of the algorithms.

    They are trying to figure out how to rein in government and corporate use of AI that makes rational decisions that they have prohibited actual humans from doing in the past.

  21. AndrewR says:
    @Anonymous

    We will never get black crime levels down to white levels, but certainly black culture could be changed for the better, reducing crime rates.

  22. Art Deco says:
    @Colin Wright

    Staff your police force properly and deploy it optimally, and slum blacks will commit fewer crimes. In New York City as we speak, the most disorderly police precinct in a city with 80 such precincts is in Brooklyn around Bed-Stuy and Ocean Hill / Brownsville. The homicide rate in that precinct is about 15 per 100,000. The metropolitan mean of the nation in 1980 was about 12 per 100,000 and is at this time around 6 per 100,000. (The homicide rate in Detroit is currently 48 per 100,000, btw).

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
    , @Reg Cæsar
  23. MEH 0910 says:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crow_T._Robot

    Crow T. Robot is a fictional character from the American science fiction comedy television series Mystery Science Theater 3000 (MST3K). Crow is a robot, who, along with others, ridicules poor-quality B movies.

    • Replies: @Anon87
  24. Anonym says:
    @Anonymous

    Isn’t it a bit contradictory for the HBD crowd to say that “all black men have to do” is commit fewer crimes? HBD doesn’t posit that the absolute level of crime is intractable for each group but it does suggest that large relative crime gaps are ineradicable. In fact, the HBD perspective is arguably less cruel than an anti-HBD culturalist view that simply condemns black culture for everything that ails it.

    My perspective is that we recognize this and that whites should be allowed their own ethnostates, like Israel and about 1.5B East Asians have. But “muh Nazeees”.

    If you really must have blacks committing fewer crimes, there is an HBD certified way. Britain went a long way towards reducing her crime rate by preventing criminals from propagating their genetics. This could be done by castration, but instead they chose execution. This has the additional effect of increasing GDP by removing negatively productive individuals. It is also more satisfying to victims of crime. It would work on blacks too.

    Such a society is less finanancially rewarding for (((lawyers))) though. So I guess that option is off the table.

    • Replies: @AndrewR
  25. Art Deco says:

    This woman is a mulatto who in the course of her life has been succored by Vanderbilt University and Stanford University, not to mention the offices of Mr. “Justice” Harry Blackmun. Her sister parlayed berths at Cornell and Stanford into decades of secure employment first at Ohio State then at the University of Oregon. You can see her sister’s blech research programme here (https://history.uoregon.edu/slide/welcome-leslie-alexander/). Michelle Alexander doesn’t do real estate closings or wills and estates. She works in the har-de-har public interest bar while drawing income from academic sinecures (Union Theological Seminary) and sorosphere patronage.

    We have one woman whose fancies herself quite the ‘fighter for justice’ while working to make the daily life of impecunious working-class blacks as disagreeable as she possibly can. Her sister, having been so sweetly nurtured by this country all her life, is in the business of trashing it in university press books which will be purchased by university libraries and left to collect dust there unless some faculty member much like her assigns reserve readings from them. Condign punishment for these two would be to strip them of their citizenship and dump them on any Eurotrash latrine too inept to resist having to take them. They’re not doing a bloody bit of good for any party with whose welfare decent people should concern themselves.

  26. Lot says:

    A think a lot of these bail issues will be solved by more advanced ankle monitors.

    It is a good thing though the bail bond scam that victimized so many poor to midde class people on minor offenses has been eliminated.

    $20,000 bond on a DUI for someone with a steady job and local family. He doesn’t have that handy, so pays a $2,000 bail fee to the bondsman.

    Bad news for our local alt weeklies. Next to medical weed, bondsmen were the biggest advertisers.

    • Replies: @ScarletNumber
  27. Art Deco says:
    @AndrewR

    You can’t manipulate culture directly via public policy, and you wouldn’t want to if you were prudent. You can change incentives. People who have a very spotty understanding of the right and the good (and that includes respect for persons and property manifest in lawful behavior and general decorum) can and do understand pain and discomfort.

  28. Whiskey says: • Website

    No Steve the future is the Purge movies. All crime is legal. But for Black people only. It’s coming. In France it has already arrived.

    • Replies: @Neoconned
  29. Steve says:

    Black men should try committing fewer crimes.

    Nope. They cannot go against their genetic programming.

  30. notanon says:

    for :liberals who want to actually improve things and not just virtue-signal

    it’s genetic and you can fix it (over generations) by locking up gangstas soon after they start beating up the other kids at school (aka handicapping their reproduction)

    nothing else will work and most of the alternatives tried over the last 50 years make it worse

  31. Robots need to be programmed with disparate impact taken into account. The additional murders and fiscal burdens are a small sacrifice compared to being on the right side of history.

  32. @Art Deco

    Granting generous welfare benefits to women who have illegitimate children is a glaring example of the ability to manipulate culture via public policy don’t you think?

    • Replies: @Art Deco
  33. notanon says:
    @Anon

    Now, if Libby-dibs want to release tons of blacks and let them loose in big cities, I’m fine with that.

    they won’t – they want prison release combined with section 8 which is basically anti-white pogrom by proxy

  34. @AndrewR

    I agree, but you have to admit that your solution is disturbingly paternalistic. You’re basically saying we need to impose a foreign – White, in this case – culture on blacks so they’re less problematic.

    The fact that you used the passive voice in the second part of your sentence shows you’re not too keen on saying who would change that culture because we all know that blacks wouldn’t do it on their own. Blacks want to be black – and get all the stuff. Don’t forget the stuff.

    • Replies: @AndrewR
  35. Art Deco says:
    @Citizen of a Silly Country

    The problem is putting blacks and Whites together into one society and expecting them to behave the same. Of all people, you should know that.

    I don’t know how to break this to you, but blacks and whites have been living together in this country for 400 years. You have about 15 million blacks living uneventfully in small concentrations in the larger society as we speak. There is no legitimate purpose to a white ethnostate. You need something simpler, which is a police force that is amply staffed and willing and able to do it’s job.

  36. @Anonymous

    Thanks. I’ve been making that same point for a couple of years now. (See my comment around here somewhere. It’s similar.)

    Half the comments on iSteve (including many of my own, though I’m trying to get better) amount to this complaint: “Non-Whites aren’t acting like Whites. I don’t like it, and they should stop.” It’s truly bizarre for an HBD crowd.

    • Replies: @bomag
  37. notanon says:

    black crime is possibly the issue where the hypocritical NYT is at its most hypocritical

    New York was tamed by the media turning a blind eye to the police harassing black criminals till they moved to Jersey making areas like Harlem safe for gentrification.

    they deny the problem exists while imposing it on other people and virtue-signalling while they do it – vile people.

  38. El Dato says:
    @J.Ross

    Why would that be? Is math bigoted?

    AI is inherently evil! From the (not particularly good) “Destination Void” by Frank Herbert:

    Flattery knew the reasons. They were reality of the most brutal kind.

    The first crude attempts at mechanical reproduction of consciousness had been made on an island in Puget Sound. The island no longer existed. “Rogue consciousness!” they had screamed. True enough. Something had defied natural laws, slaughtered lab personnel, destroyed sensors, sent slashing beams of pure destruction through the surrounding countryside.

    Finally, it had taken the island — God knew where.

    Poof!

    No island.

    No lab personnel.

    Nothing but gray water and a cold north wind whipping whitecaps across it and the fish and the seaweed invading the area where land and men and machinery had been.

    Just thinking about it made Flattery shiver. He conjured up in his mind the image of the sacred graphic from his quarters, absorbed some of the peace from the field of serenity, the tranquility of the holy faces.

    Even Moonbase didn’t walk too close to this project now. It was all a sham to educate ship personnel, to frustrate the eager young men and women.

    Imagine this happened at the NYT or Salon.

  39. notanon says:
    @Art Deco

    living together in this country for 400 years

    segregated because of the black crime rate – until the media got rid of segregation thus causing the deaths of large numbers of white people.

    • Replies: @Art Deco
  40. Art Deco says:
    @Citizen of a Silly Country

    Your solution that blacks should just magically commit fewer crimes actually would require a massive societal overhaul

    It doesn’t require any social overhaul at all. It requires, in a typical metropolis, about 2,000 police officers deployed to the slum zone and about 800 to the remainder of town.

    The employment to population ratio among blacks is currently 0.587. That in the remainder of the population is 0.610. The occupational distribution is different. Blacks are more likely to be wage earners and to work in porting occupations (bus driver, postal clerk) and in personal service occupations (home health aide, barber). They are native speakers of English, are nearly universally literate past a certain age, and have a life expectancy the rest of the country didn’t see until about 1985. The vast majority are some species of protestant evangelical. This isn’t some bizarre foreign population. It’s a perfectly familiar population – with some problems. Problems which can be addressed after a fashion.

  41. @Art Deco

    I don’t know how to break it to you, but the point of my comment – and you know this – wasn’t to promote a White ethno-state. It was simply to point out that Steve was acting like one of the many pundit who inexplicably believe that there’s no such thing as race and even if there was, our differences are only skin deep.

    Steve knows that blacks are genetically prone to be more criminal than Whites so his suggestion that they just commit less crimes is an odd one. It’s like asking the Rottweiler breed to be nicer; it’s not in their nature. They need to be trained to keep their aggression under control.

    Is that what Steve was suggesting? If so, he should say so.

    Regarding your comment, yes, I am aware that blacks and Whites have been living together – not particuarly happily, I might add – for 400 years. Thanks for bring that to my attention. Not sure how I missed that all these years.

    You have about 15 million blacks living uneventfully in small concentrations in the larger society as we speak.

    Wow, the power of your logic is overwhelming. Are you next going to tell me that there are White criminals too or that some of the most gentle people that you have known are black.

    Let’s see if you can wrap that giant brain around this idea. You have two communities one is black and one is white. In the white community, 1 out of 100 people is a violent criminal. In the black community, 7 out of 100 are violent criminals. Here are two facts about these communities:

    1. 93% of blacks are just swell people “living uneventfully”
    2. The black community is seven times more violent and dangerous than the White community, a level of danger that makes life miserable for the people living there

    Yes, both of these are true at the same time.

    You need something simpler, which is a police force that is amply staffed and willing and able to do it’s job.

    Yes, so you can impose White norms on black communities. If blacks really wanted lower crime, they’d do it themselves. Btw, who gets to pay for all of these cops and support staff? Whites, that’s who.

    There is no legitimate purpose to a white ethnostate.

    What the hell does that even mean? Is there a legitimate purpose to a Japanese ethnostate or a Korean ethnostate or a Jewish ethnostate. Who is this great and good God that determines what is legitimate?

    What about self-determination? What about right to be ruled by and to live among your own? What the desire to not be a minority?

    Do you even think before you write.

    • Agree: Anonym
  42. Art Deco says:
    @Futurethirdworlder

    No, it isn’t. The number of people enrolled in TANF is one-third the number who were in 1995 enrolled in AFDC. The population of the United States has increased by 20% in the intervening decades, so per capita enrollment has declined by 75%. Observable changes in the frequency of illegitimate child-bearing in the intervening decades have been bupkis.

    The vast majority of people will have nothing to do with a program like AFDC or TANF at any point in their life and, as we speak, only about 1.3% of the population are currently enrolled. However the share of children born to unwed mothers, went from 3% in 1958 to 40% today. Most 1st born children are so out-of-wedlock in our time (though many are legitimated post-partum). I don’t like it, but that’s how working people do business these days (and not a few bourgeois). AFDC and TANF didn’t help, but they’re a weak vector in influencing how people-in-general order their family life.

  43. J.Ross says: • Website

    The next time Steve makes a sarcastic remark he should post an image of a computer-generated polar bear drinking a nonspecific carbonated beverage as a nonverbal signal that “I am now being sarcastic.” The bear setting the soda down means the sarcasm has ended.

    • Replies: @Forbes
  44. @Art Deco

    You want to impose by force White norms on blacks.

    Why not let blacks live the way that they want to live? If blacks truly wanted lower crime, they could create such a society.

    I simply want to avoid blacks and let them live how they wish. You want to impose a foreign culture on them.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  45. Meanwhile in Britain… People just need to keep repeating “diversity is strength” as the standards across every part of national life are quietly dropped to zero, because standards are racist.

    BBC:

    Parole Board: No black panel members a ‘significant concern’

    The latest Ministry of Justice figures show there are 22,000 ethnic minority inmates in England and Wales, representing 26% of the jail population. More than 10,000 of them are black.

    However, only 13 – or 5% – of Parole Board members are from an ethnic minority, none of whom is black.

    “At the moment we have no black Parole Board members and that’s of significant concern to me,” said Mrs Corby.

    <A campaign to recruit 100 Parole Board members in 2016 and 2017 tried to address the shortfall, she said, but it had not attracted enough ethnic minority candidates and a disproportionate number of those who did apply failed to get through the selection procedures. A new recruitment drive is being launched next year.

    "There must have been some kind of unconscious bias in those processes… we're not going to have those processes next time around," she said.

    • Replies: @YetAnotherAnon
  46. El Dato says:
    @Anon

    That’s practically Italian.

  47. Here’s a comment that was posted at the NYT by that rarest of species: a NYT reader who actually possesses a grasp of logic:

    The author’s understanding of bias in algorithms is flawed. There is only one indicator that can demonstrate if risk assessment is negatively biased towards minorities—if the predicted risk for minorities is systematically higher than their actual crime rate once probation is granted. That the algorithm contains factors that are correlated with race is not evidence that biases exists, insofar as race is indeed correlated with crime.

  48. Dr. X says:
    @Anonymous

    Isn’t it a bit contradictory for the HBD crowd to say that “all black men have to do” is commit fewer crimes? HBD doesn’t posit that the absolute level of crime is intractable for each group but it does suggest that large relative crime gaps are ineradicable.

    Precisely. If blacks evolved to have low impulse control in tropical habitats in Africa, how can we expect them to behave like whites when they live in Chicago and Detroit? That’s like asking a Yorkshire terrier to behave like a bloodhound.

    The Founders understood this, and they understood it a century before Darwin’s Origin of Species. That’s why practically all antebellum white politicians advocated repatriation back to Africa.

    Here’s Jefferson, from Notes on the State of Virginia:

    “Whether the black of the negro resides in the reticular membrane between the skin and scarf-skin, or in the scarf-skin itself; whether it proceeds from the colour of the blood, the colour of the bile, or from that of some other secretion, the difference is fixed in nature, and is as real as if its seat and cause were better known to us…

    Besides those of colour, figure, and hair, there are other physical distinctions proving a difference of race. They have less hair on the face and body. They secrete less by the kidnies, and more by the glands of the skin, which gives them a very strong and disagreeable odour. This greater degree of transpiration renders them more tolerant of heat, and less so of cold, than the whites…

    They seem to require less sleep. A black, after hard labour through the day, will be induced by the slightest amusements to sit up till midnight, or later, though knowing he must be out with the first dawn of the morning. They are at least as brave, and more adventuresome. But this may perhaps proceed from a want of forethought, which prevents their seeing a danger till it be present. When present, they do not go through it with more coolness or steadiness than the whites. They are more ardent after their female: but love seems with them to be more an eager desire, than a tender delicate mixture of sentiment and sensation. Their griefs are transient. Those numberless afflictions, which render it doubtful whether heaven has given life to us in mercy or in wrath, are less felt, and sooner forgotten with them.”

  49. @Art Deco

    ‘Staff your police force properly and deploy it optimally, and slum blacks will commit fewer crimes…’

    Yes, but just how large a police force does that require? And who pays for it?

    We could have a special tax imposed only on blacks — but I suppose that would be considered racist.

    • Replies: @Art Deco
  50. lhtness says:

    If your solution were successfully adopted overnight, then they’d manage to find whichever group now has the highest tendency to commit crime, and they’d do all the same politicking with them.

  51. @Citizen of a Silly Country

    ‘…Wow, the power of your logic is overwhelming. Are you next going to tell me that there are White criminals too or that some of the most gentle people that you have known are black…’

    I once had an East Asian pull a knife on me!

  52. It’s only a matter of time before Michelle Alexander’s concerns are validated, and California goes back to the old system, i.e. setting bail.

    If bail were adjusted for the accused’s financial means (it is somewhat, but only a little) then maybe everyone could be happy.

  53. Black men should try committing fewer crimes.

    Okay, okay, I know, it’s too radical, it would never work in a million years. But still … You gotta admit it would be a win-win solution.

    This, though, is no different from the young feminist whine that “We shouldn’t have to do anything. Men should just stop [fill in the blank]”

    Ignoring the fact that most of us can’t stop what we’ve never started, and that they should remove themselves to the vicinity of a better class of men.

  54. @Art Deco

    I’m not sure where you got your numbers but an article on Drudge at this very moment claims that 51.7% of households with children under 18 are receiving some form of government assistance. https://www.cnsnews.com/commentary/terence-p-jeffrey/welfare-generation-kids-households-getting-government-assistance-drop

  55. Dansidea says:
    @Anon

    Hey how about we all stop paying taxes ! That’s a crime and will even up the score – might end up being a tad “racist” though when they look at the offenders?

  56. @Art Deco

    Staff your police force properly and deploy it optimally, and slum blacks will commit fewer crimes. In New York City as we speak…

    Not every city has millions of New Yorkers available to recruit from, right outside the door.

    But maybe NYC should recruit from Swedish tourists:

    Four burly Swedish cops put their New York City vacation on hold to answer the call of duty on a Manhattan subway train last night.

    Fat cops are weighing down the NYPD

  57. @Art Deco

    The large gains in getting people off welfare have been offset by increasing earned income credit and daycare subsidies. Basically the government pays people to not go on welfare.

    • Replies: @Art Deco
  58. Art Deco says:
    @notanon

    until the media got rid of segregation thus causing the deaths of large numbers of white people.

    1. The black population remains agglutinated, though not sequestered. Blacks living outside the agglutinations are not remarkable.

    2. The homicide rate in 1980 was the same as it was in 1930.

    3. Black-on-white homicide is more common than white-on-black homicide, but it’s not that common. (the number of such homicides each year is in three-digits). The crime problem in inner-city slums is largely intra-racial.

  59. @Art Deco

    You’re being a little disingenuous by confining your analysis to just TANF transfers.

    Those receiving (formerly known as Food Stamps) SNAP benefits = 43 million.

    Section 8 (and other) Housing benefits = 4.8 million families x (say) 3 persons per family = (approx.) 14 million persons.

    Medicaid and Children’s Health Insurance Programs = 73.2 million recipients.

  60. AndrewR says:
    @Citizen of a Silly Country

    Nice strawman lol.

    Obviously, the ideal would be for all of us to work together. Some changes only blacks can make. Other changes require Whitey’s help. As Art Deco said: incentives matter.

    Our policies towards blacks have always been paternalistic. Slavery, Jim Crow, and now the welfare state and forced Diversity™. But some policies are better than others, both for blacks and for everyone else. Our policies should encourage good behavior and discourage bad behavior. And of course they needn’t be explicitly racial in nature. The white underclass suffers from many of the same problems as the black one. The whites left in my rust belt city are honestly no better behaved than the blacks.

  61. HEL says:
    @Anonymous

    No, isn’t contradictory to HBD to say that blacks would not be incarcerated if they didn’t commit crimes. This is the truth. The fact that they are indeed going to continue committing crimes at higher rates than other groups no matter what Steve says is immaterial.

    Here’s a crazy idea, maybe Steve was making a simple rehetorical point. Which is that black incarceration rates are driven overwhelmingly by black behavior, not by racism.

    But no, you’re probably right. Steve was hoping his revolutionary plan would go viral and peace would descend upon the ghetto. But now that you’ve explained the flaw in his reasoning I’m sure he’s crushed. Back to the drawing board!

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
  62. Forbes says:
    @Anonymous

    Isn’t it a bit contradictory for the HBD crowd to say that “all black men have to do” is commit fewer crimes?

    You might want to re-calibrate your sarcasm detector/sensor. Steve is poking fun at the failure (of Michelle Alexander, and her acolytes) to locate the source of the problem as the amount of crime committed by blacks–especially as compared to the majority white population.

    If, for example, the crime rate between whites and blacks were (equal) similar, then these special pleadings would fall on deaf ears because no one could make an overtly racial/racialist/racist appeal.

    So long as black behavioral outcomes significantly differ–and negatively so–from whites, then special pleadings regarding dispensation of those outcomes will persist. Until the cause or source of the problem enters the conversation–and the acknowledgement of the behavioral differences–then all that’s occurring is a shuffling of the deck chairs on the Titanic. The status quo remains in effect.

  63. @Forbes

    Alcohol-related problems differ by genetic ancestry, yet, overall, there’s less drunk-driving than there used to be.

    • Replies: @kimchilover
    , @Forbes
  64. @Colin Wright

    I once knew an East Asian who actually seemed like she enjoyed sex.

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
  65. @Anonymous

    No, gene-culture co-evolution.

  66. Forbes says:
    @J.Ross

    It’s simple, AI or what is called AI, doesn’t produce the socially engineered outcome the users want. They want AI to discriminate in ways they imagine it should–like Affirmative Action, without discriminating.

    Amazon recently stopped using AI to screen jobs applicants for IT because the model/algorithm wasn’t producing the number of female hires Amazon wanted. The male candidates were far more numerous and far more qualified/capable.

  67. @HEL

    Blacks committed more homicides in 1974 than in 1964, but fewer in 1984 than in 1974.

    Why? Liberals were in charge of the justice system from 1964-1974 but they screwed up so badly that conservatives started to get it back.

    Blacks committed about 25% more homicides in 2016 than in 2014. Why? Because everybody who was anybody was telling them that law enforcement was racist.

  68. Art Deco says:
    @epochehusserl

    The large gains in getting people off welfare have been offset by increasing earned income credit and daycare subsidies. Basically the government pays people to not go on welfare.

    1. In New York, about 4% of the youth population are enrolled in subsidized day care. The mean benefit is about $6,300 a year. Public schools enroll 20x as many youngsters. IIRC, mean per-pupil expenditure is north of $12,000 per year in New York.

    2. In 1996, shy of 17% cent of all tax filers received Earned Income Credits. In 2015, the share was shy of 19%.

    3. Over the period running from 1996 to 2015, real personal consumption expenditures of the whole population increased by about 66%. The sums disbursed through the EITC program increased by about 50% in real terms. The program was less significant in context in 2015.

    Some data on the EITC program can be found here:

    https://fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/R44825.pdf

    The Bureau of Economic Analysis reports the sum of personal consumption expenditures in real and nominal terms.

  69. Forbes says:
    @Art Deco

    You can’t manipulate culture directly via public policy, and you wouldn’t want to if you were prudent.

    No?

    You can change incentives.

    Don’t incentives manipulate/change behavior–and collective behavior is reflected in the culture? Aren’t incentives public policy? Isn’t that the prudent way forward?

    Public policy seems to be a constant debate regarding incentives to channel behavior in one direction or another.

    So which is it?

    • Replies: @Art Deco
  70. @Art Deco

    “Agglutinated,” really. You just had to have been a college professor. While the rest of the world attempts to simplify explanations and processes because it’s more robust, academia attempts to complicate. It’s a form of job protection. Shall we proceed.

    Blacks living outside the agglutinations are not remarkable.

    Ever heard of regression to the mean? What are those “nice” blacks’ kids and grandkids like? Averages and regression to the mean matter Art. You know this, yet your purposely obfuscate (not as good as agglutinate, I admit) the situation. Why?

    The homicide rate in 1980 was the same as it was in 1930.

    What was the black incareration rate in the 1930 vs 1980? As blacks became more free to act as their nature intended, Whites needed to imprison more and more of them to prevent chaos.

    Black-on-white homicide is more common than white-on-black homicide, but it’s not that common. (the number of such homicides each year is in three-digits). The crime problem in inner-city slums is largely intra-racial.

    Well then, I guess that makes everything just fine, doesn’t it. As long as you’re going to get raped, you might as well lay back and enjoy it, baby.

  71. Forbes says:
    @J.Ross

    The usual over-eager are over-serious on this post…

  72. Art Deco says:
    @Colin Wright

    Yes, but just how large a police force does that require? And who pays for it?

    Extrapolating from New York City’s manpower, a metropolitan settlement of ordinary size (say, Omaha, about 600,000 people) should be able to get by with about 2,800 sworn officers. A comprehensive local sales tax of about 4% could finance it.

  73. AndrewR says:
    @Anonym

    China is not exactly an “ethnostate”, and to the extent it is, no decent people will seek to emulate it. Tibetans and Uyghurs are being genocided for Han “ethnostate” purposes.

  74. @AndrewR

    Not a strawman, just pointing out the realities of what you’re advocating.

    That said, given the reality of situation for near and medium term, you make mostly good points and that policies that changes incentives are the best option. However, I don’t believe you when you say that rust belt whites are no better behaved than blacks. The stats that I’ve seen don’t back that up, but I’m more than happy for you to prove me. I have no dog in that fight.

    • Replies: @AndrewR
  75. @Art Deco

    Hey, just 4% for life.

    A couple of hundred million here and a couple of hundred million there. The next thing that you know we’re talking about real money.

    Have you ever run a business? I have and 4% is huge.

    • Replies: @Art Deco
  76. @Steve Sailer

    Because everybody who was anybody was telling them that law enforcement was racist.

    It is, in a way. You’re attempting to impose White norms of behavior, including murder rates, to blacks. Now, blacks may be better off because of that, but it’s not how they would organize themselves if left alone. Not sure what the exact definition of racism is, but that has to be somewhere in the ball park.

  77. @Forbes

    Well, it Steve was doing some very dry satire, I apologize. I thought that he was serious. I wouldn’t be shocked if Steve was operating at a higher level than I was aware.

  78. HEL says:
    @Steve Sailer

    Well yeah, external factors influence the black crime rate. But whether or not the crimes are committed is the most direct cause of the imprisonment, no?

    If it really was your plan that blacks just read your post and decide not to commit crimes anymore, well I apologize for misrepresenting your intentions . . .

  79. Corvinus says:

    “Black men should try committing fewer crimes.”

    In 2013, there were are approximately 21.5 million black men who live in the United States. As of 2016, there were 486,900 inmates who were black. Seems to me that most black men do not engage in criminal activity.

    Now, according to the FBI Crime Statistics for 2016, there were 2,263,112 TOTAL arrests of black men for an offense. That means it was not over 2 million individual black men who were thrown in jail. Thus, of that amount, how many black men were charged with individual -and- multiple offenses?

    • Troll: YetAnotherAnon
  80. @Steve Sailer

    I’m 44 but I have a number of friends in their early 30′s and if there’s one thing that’s impressed me about Millennials it’s been their unhesitating willingness to user Uber/Lyft if they’ve had a few too many.

  81. notanon says:
    @Art Deco

    “agglutinated huh

    1) black crime rates are much higher
    2) segregation was justified on that basis
    3) the media are primarily responsible for the end of segregation ergo the media are primarily responsible for all the white people murdered as a result
    4) white flight was the only thing that prevented the number of these deaths being even higher
    5) despite knowing all of this the media works tirelessly to make white flight impossible in the future
    6) heavy policing doesn’t prevent this it just herds it into different areas
    7) heavy jailing doesn’t prevent this it just concentrates it in the jails (which is better but expensive)

    the best long-term solution is heavy jailing in the short-term combined with reducing the frequency of violent genes in the black population (which benefits everyone including black people).

  82. notanon says:
    @Art Deco

    New York lowered its crime rate by targeting and driving out its dangerous black criminals to somewhere else.

    (one of my ancestors who was a cop in the 30s apparently saw his job like that – he didn’t believe you could stop bad people doing bad things but you could terrorize them into doing them somewhere else)

    • Agree: Futurethirdworlder
    • Replies: @Art Deco
  83. Anonymous[427] • Disclaimer says:
    @Citizen of a Silly Country

    If blacks want to live in a white society, and we choose to let them-for we legitimately have that choice-they will have to conform to white norms in certain matters, such as how their presence affects white people. And there is no question but that we must have a white society.

    Those who do not like it should be advised to leave: those who do not leave should be kicked out if they can not comply.

    That is not probably going to be possible under the present government of the United States, no matter what government is elected. When the country breaks into pieces, at least one of them will be explicitly white-but that won’t happen in my lifetime.

  84. TGGP says: • Website

    Steve had a less snarky take on the issue here:

    http://www.unz.com/isteve/should-race-be-considered-in-prison-sentences/

    Alex Tabarrok wasn’t too surprised by this unintended consequence of banning cash bail.

    https://marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2018/10/happens-bail-reform-meets-reality.html

    The same sort of thing happens with “ban the box” regarding whether job applicants have criminal convictions.

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
  85. That’s different. These convicts chose to identify as male gendered. Blacks don’t choose to identify as racially black, because race does not exist.

  86. @Art Deco

    “You can’t manipulate culture directly via public policy”

    We seem to have changed it pretty effectively in the 1960s. For the worse of course, but still, it shows it can happen.

    By the way, I agree with your previous comments on this thread. That one sentence just jumped out at me.

  87. @Lot

    Bad news for our local alt weeklies

    Bad news for the Bad News Bears, who were sponsored by Chico’s Bail Bonds.

  88. @Citizen of a Silly Country

    “blacks are genetically prone to be more criminal than Whites so his suggestion that they just commit less crimes is an odd one. It’s like asking the Rottweiler breed to be nicer; it’s not in their nature. They need to be trained to keep their aggression under control.”

    That’s a fair point and gets at what the media won’t. Still, there is a difference between blacks (humans) and Rottweilers (animals). Humans have free will. Humans can, with effort, transcend their genes. Granted, as thing are now, blacks have no incentive to do this and every incentive to indulge their baser instincts, so this era might be the most hostile to the free (will) black man that has ever been, but still, underneath all the perverse incentives the fact remains that free will exists and blacks, like any other human, can exercise it if they choose to do so. The rest of society should make it in their interest to do so. This would entail pretty much the opposite of the current regime of indulging black mischief.

  89. Newest Jim Crow …

    … computer algorithms are helping to determine who should be caged and who should be set “free.” …

    … These advanced mathematical models … appear colorblind on the surface but they are based on factors that are not only highly correlated with race and class …

    When reality and Black Privilege collide, it is reality which must give way.

    Michelle Alexander … is a civil rights lawyer … .

    Ensuring this is the task of the “civil right lawyer”.

  90. @Citizen of a Silly Country

    FWIW, I heard of your blunt straight talk via Luke Ford’s channel. You are persuasive, but you must know that the stark conclusions you make would – if openly championed- scuttle any politician in 80-90% of congressional districts. People on this site are woke to the fact that the Elites across the West are now hostile to our fate, and wish to replace us. Since the Elites in the US tend to exert their power internationally, it would seem most efficient to use political means to dismantle the Elite here so as to liberate not just the USA but those in its sphere of influence. Of course it makes sense to ready contingency plans, but those are for another forum.

  91. AndrewR says:
    @Citizen of a Silly Country

    I’m talking about the ones in my city not “rust belt whites” in general.

  92. @AndrewR

    They’re not being genocided(except culturally, insofar as forced assimilation is “genocide”) but at any rate, I’m increasingly convinced that this forum exists more for the dopamine-boosting rather than epistemic purposes.

  93. MEH 0910 says:

    But such a move has been long-awaited by public health advocates, who have been especially concerned about the high percentage of African-Americans who become addicted to menthol cigarettes.
    ……

    According to the N.A.A.C.P.’s Youth Against Menthol campaign, about 85 percent of African-American smokers aged 12 and up smoke menthol cigarettes, compared with 29 percent of white smokers, which the organization calls a result of decades of culturally tailored tobacco company promotion.

    • Replies: @hhsiii
  94. Anonym says:
    @AndrewR

    Maybe I’m not a decent person by your definition but most people would prefer to live in the country I would create.

    • Replies: @AndrewR
  95. Nick says: • Website

    Typical RethugliKKKlan comment. I’m not going to take the time to enlighten you. You white devils are in bed with satan. Enjoy your charmed lives.

    ***www.USAdevils.com

  96. @Almost Missouri

    Humans can, with effort, transcend their genes.

    Not in aggregate. Don’t be a sap.

    You’re acting as though the script for every “Nice White Lady” movie can be replicated en masse. It can’t.

    The rest of society should make it in their interest to do so.

    In other words, we should exert a huge amount of effort, treasure and force to try and make blacks act White.

    Why not separate and just let different groups act the way that they want?

    Yes, I get that the rubuttal is that, “Hey, Citizen, too bad, we’re stuck with each other so let’s make the best of it.” That’s a reasonable statement, but it’s still wrong. Whites want blacks to act White. It will never work. There are only three options:

    1. Separate and let blacks be blacks
    2. Impose – by force (and don’t fool yourself that there is another way) – White norms on blacks
    3. Whites submit to black norms

    You can sugarcoat those options all you want, but those are your choices. And this idea that there’s no way to separate because we live around each other shows a disregard and a disrespect toward history.

    History has shown over and over again that different ethnic and racial groups living intermingled can very quickly separate from one another. That said, I don’t want violence, and I’d be shocked if any real organized racial violence occurred in my lifetime. But to act as though that’s not an option is a bit silly.

    Also, the country is no longer black and White. Other groups will have their say about black criminality at some point. Hispanics already have decided in many L.A. neighborhoods that black criminality doesn’t work for them. However, unlike Whites, Hispanics chose to drive out the black rather than retreat. Whites might someday decide the same thing. We’ll see.

    • Replies: @Almost Missouri
  97. Black men should try committing fewer crimes.

    You have just made liberals head explode from coast-to-coast.

    Comments from readers: Tiny Duck: you are a racist and the blacks committing the crimes will have their way with your daughters! Paleo Liberal: if we just cede more power to the Central Government blacks will not commit fewer crimes, but I’ll get to stomp on your face forever! Corvinus: I agree that black men should try committing fewer crimes, but after I get enough illegals voting Democrat, I’ll get to stomp on your face forever! Peter Akuleyev: The Trumpettes are still in denial because it was always perfectly obvious that no one notices that I am helping the elites in their demographic displacement. And, pretty soon, after I get enough illegals voting Democrat, I’ll get to stomp on your face forever!

    Everyone else: this common sense is so obvious even an idiot would recognize it as such. And we all know that when the French Revolution 2.0 gets underway the guillotine will take the heads of Tiny Duck, Paleo Liberal, Corvinus and Peter Akuleyev, among others.

    Conclusion: Democrats must up their game to rise to the level of idiots.

  98. @Daniel Chieh

    but at any rate, I’m increasingly convinced that this forum exists more for the dopamine-boosting rather than epistemic purposes.

    Maybe you should stop paying attention to AndrewR.

  99. @AndrewR

    Maybe your rust belt Whites are worse than the rural Whites that I grew up with and still live around. I’ve lived around blacks. There is no comparison. Blacks are incapable of maintaining anything close to a civilization. It’s actually amazing to see them day to day. They are different from Whites and Hispanics. (I’ve never lived around Asians.) There’s no system, no understanding or thought of the future. You realize how quickly things would fall apart if they were left on their own.

    That’s neither good nor bad. It’s also not a condemnation. They are what they are. They would create a society that fit them. That’s fine. But they as a group are incompatible with White civilization. Actually, even individual blacks are incompatible due to regression to the mean.

    That doesn’t make Whites superior to blacks, anymore than NE Asians scoring higher on the SAT makes their superior to Whites. It just makes groups different.

    I don’t know why that’s so hard for people to accept.

  100. Art Deco says:
    @notanon

    New York lowered its crime rate by targeting and driving out its dangerous black criminals to somewhere else.

    New York City’s black population was 1,955,000 in 1990, 2,050,000 in 2000, 2,012,000 in 2010, and 2,093,000 in 2017.

    You might do us the courtesy of identifying municipalities in New York and New Jersey which have experienced corresponding increases in crime consequent to this ethnic cleansing.

    • Replies: @notanon
  101. @Art Deco

    Their purpose is to reduce us to a Hobbesian state of nature. They do not think this will affect them. They are wrong.

    I am not Catholic. I am pretty sure that you are not Catholic. But I suspect that we will both agree that there are some damned fined Catholics out there, like Tom McKenna, that have earned our respect.

    And I don’t know what to do with that, given their black-hearted Pope.

  102. @AndrewR

    How do you think the innumerable nation states that have existed throughout history were created? By being nice and decent?

    You sound like a trust fund kid who spends his time doing pointless charity work to prove his moral superiority while ignoring how his family made his money in the first place. The reason that any ethnic group lives in a homogeneous land where the society fits that group is because at some point, their ancestors drove out other groups.

    • Replies: @AndrewR
    , @AndrewR
  103. Art Deco says:
    @Forbes

    Don’t incentives manipulate/change behavior–and collective behavior is reflected in the culture? Aren’t incentives public policy? Isn’t that the prudent way forward?

    Culture is composed of ideations. You can have hortatory campaigns by state actors. I don’t think that’s properly the function of the state except around the edges (e.g. the Memorial Day parade you used to have in the suburban town I lived in 50 years ago). And it’s commonly ineffective anyway. (See D.A.R.E. programs). The law can incorporate certain understandings of correct behavior, but if you expect modifying the law one way or another to have large effects on conduct or people’s principals consequent to changes in conduct, you’ll commonly be disappointed. I doubt modifications to matrimonial law will have much effect on marital durability, though you could attempt that. (An end to no-fault divorce and a rebuttable presumption that child custody is to be awarded to the defendant in divorce suits might be the most effective at reducing the incidence of divorce).

    Your cultural problems in the black population are multiform: habits and notions which promote ill-thought-out sexual encounters, bad notions about proper family formation and maintenance, disregard of certain rubrics of modern life (e.g. paying debts on time), a tendency toward insufficient personal saving, a tendency to confuse signifiers of accomplishment with actual accomplishment, a disregard of the data of every day life when thinking about public life and history, an episodic tendency to have oppositional-defiant reactions to ordinary manifestations of authority, and an episodic tendency to strike poses under stress (poses consisting of a mix of bald lying and recrimination). You can probably reduce some of this to an inter-related set of more basic elements having to do with time preference, habits of emotional self-regulation, and shame culture. Not my book.

    White liberals tend to make things worse in various ways by sabotaging efforts at giving people honest performance assessments, by lax enforcement of common community standards, by promoting ever more obscure and improvised conceptions of personal agency. You can stop making things worse and let the chips fall where they may, but it’s going to be a long time before the habits of a lifetime disappear.

    What’s the whole point of the diversity blather? It’s to tell someone he’s so damn cool we have to have him here even though he’d be screened out if our ordinary admissions or hiring criteria were applied. It’s all status jonesing by white liberals. It doesn’t do anyone else any good.

    • Replies: @Pheasant
  104. notanon says:
    @Art Deco

    not all black people are violent criminals – that was the trick – get the police to drive out the scary dudes and let gentrification (e.g. Harlem) do the rest

    • Replies: @Art Deco
  105. @Citizen of a Silly Country

    ‘I once knew an East Asian who actually seemed like she enjoyed sex.’

    I wonder if it was the same person?

  106. @TGGP

    ‘The same sort of thing happens with “ban the box” regarding whether job applicants have criminal convictions.’

    The irony there is that deprived of this information, an employer would sumply avoid hiring any black male applicant since there’s a reasonable likelihood that he’s a convicted felon.

    If that’s the effect that is sought, go for it.

  107. anon[100] • Disclaimer says:

    lazy women want to click a button so they ask the tech guy to write a program to HRify the position of Judge and this is what you get on the other end and its a good thing

  108. Hhsiii says:

    It’s true that blacks get busted for drugs at a much worse rate than whites. Of course a lot of that started at the behest of black communities. James Forman’s book Locking Up Our Own goes into how the black community asked for these policies at first. He says Alexander overstates her case.

    Of course the war on drugs aspect is really just a way to police the more violent crime. It’s just easier to stop and frisk and bust someone for drugs or use that as a predicate or ancillary. Mass incarceration doesn’t have much to do with drug possession.

    https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/34846249-locking-up-our-own#

  109. Art Deco says:
    @notanon

    not all black people are violent criminals – that was the trick – get the police to drive out the scary dudes and let gentrification (e.g. Harlem) do the rest

    The black share of the population in New York City plummeted from 26.7% in 1990 to 24.3% in 2017. Your thesis presumes that 2.4% of the black population (i.e. about 50,000 people in a city with a population of 8.6 million) was responsible for 82% of the homicides in the City of New York and that the NYPD could identify them precisely, intimidate them so effectively they leave town without any legal process or punishment, and do so with such Jedi-magic that none of them settle in any of the municipalities around New York. I’m sure it’s plausible to you. Too bad for anyone who has to rely on your noggin.

    • Replies: @notanon
    , @notanon
  110. hhsiii says:
    @MEH 0910

    My dad was the only white guy I know who smoked menthols. He was from Winston-Salem. Went to RJ Reynolds High School.

    • Replies: @BB753
  111. Neoconned says:
    @Whiskey

    Whiskey many here openly ridicule you & don’t like you but I like your posts.

    And I don’t agree with you all the time but when I do it’s 150%. And I think a lotta others do to SILENTLY but won’t admit it and just silently nod their heads in agreement as they await the end times….keep posting old boy.

  112. @Mishima Zaibatsu

    “a disproportionate number of those who did apply failed to get through the selection procedures”

    I’m shocked, shocked.

    I’ll be even more shocked when minority parole board members turn out to grant parole more often to members of their own minority.

  113. Pheasant says:
    @Art Deco

    ‘You can probably reduce some of this to an inter-related set of more basic elements having to do with time preference, habits of emotional self-regulation, and shame culture. Not my book.’

    Michael Levin Why race matters

  114. bomag says:
    @Citizen of a Silly Country

    “Non-Whites aren’t acting like Whites. I don’t like it, and they should stop.”

    No, it’s: “Non-Whites aren’t acting like Whites. I don’t like it, and public policy prescriptions should take this into account instead of pretending that everybody is equal and any deviation is the fault of White people who therefore need to be punished.”

  115. bomag says:
    @Art Deco

    There is no legitimate purpose to a white ethnostate. You need something simpler, which is a police force that is amply staffed and willing and able to do it’s job.

    An ethnostate wasn’t suggested, but interesting that the idea is immediately quashed.

    I wouldn’t say that good policing is really a simpler solution, given that such public works tend to follow a sinusoidal curve: good results followed by laxness followed by renewed efforts. And one man’s good policing is another man’s overreach, e.g. Black Lives Matter.

    And it is not so much “a white ethnostate” as the alternative, but a community filled with individuals of any ethnicity that don’t commit crime; thus suburbs and high end urban areas that sort by income and occupation.

    • Replies: @Art Deco
  116. Art Deco says:
    @Citizen of a Silly Country

    The 4% would cover the charges for the police department. The net would be the difference between posited charges and current charges.

    As we speak, personal consumption expenditures are about $14 tn, of which $2.6 tn are on housing and $11.4 tn are on other things. Currently, state and local tax collections of all types are running at about $2.5 tn a year. Let’s posit we reconstitute and simplify our state and local tax system. We collect 18% of the revenue stream in the form of property taxes (consistent with people’s distribution of consumption expenditures) and the rest in the form of a no-exceptions assessment on final sales. So, you’re collecting just north of $2 tn in revenue from assessments on $11.4 tn in final sales of goods and services other than housing. So, the lower bound on an assessment rate on final sales would be (2/11.4) or 17.5%, and that’s if tax inspectors locate all sales and you see no feedback effects on people’s consumption expenditures. Of course, some sales revenue is concealed and some consumption scaled back, so the assessment rate will be higher, perhaps north of 20%. That’s what you’re living with right now.

  117. notanon says:
    @Art Deco

    https://www.vibe.com/2018/07/reverse-migration-chicago-philly-nyc-black-populations/

    New York City experienced similarly small but consistent changes within its black population, which dipped to 22.8 percent, down from 28 percent in 2010. Harlem, once considered a bustling black cultural mecca, has been caught in the grips of gentrification for years. Blacks account for 28 percent of Harlem’s 402,961 residents, the Crusader reports.

    • Replies: @Art Deco
  118. notanon says:
    @Art Deco

    the NYPD could identify them precisely

    apart from when there’s rapid mass immigration cops know who all the dangerous dudes in their patch/town are

  119. In NYC the black population is much more foreign born or descended from the foreign born than in 1990 It’s basically a similar percentage – about 25% of the city – but a very different population Also true of everyone else

  120. @Daniel Chieh

    Large numbers of Han have been shipped to Tibet over 60 years to make the place more “Chinese” and the locals are imprisoned if they object (where have I heard that story before?).

    Large numbers of Han have been shipped to Xingjiang to make the place more “Chinese” and a million locals have been put in re-education camps for having incorrect attitudes.

    That may not be physical genocide, but it sounds pretty ethnostatish to me.

  121. AndrewR says:
    @Citizen of a Silly Country

    So you think invasion and genocide are awesome. Thanks for making it clear who you are and what you’re about.

  122. AndrewR says:
    @Citizen of a Silly Country

    You might as well come out in favor of rape too given that we all are the products of rape going back enough generations. Is equals ought, and might makes right, right?

  123. BB753 says:
    @hhsiii

    Menthols used to be very popular in France.

  124. @Citizen of a Silly Country

    Thanks for your reply.

    I should clarify,

    1) I never said “en masse”. All public policy works at the margins, and this is no different. There are plenty of blacks who want a higher level of civilization than prevails in the ghetto. Why not cooperate with them in bringing that about?

    2) I never said “force”, nor do I mean it, except for criminal penalties. Not excusing black misbehavior is not coercion. Holding blacks to the same legal standard as everyone else is not coercion.

    You may disparage “we’re stuck with each other”-ism, but it happens to be true, at least until your neo-segregational utopia kicks in, which I would be shocked if that happens in my lifetime. Indeed, I would be shocked if it happens at all.

    Other than SJW-ish fanatics, no one is looking for perfection here. We just want not to make thing worse, and if possible make incremental improvements. Programming computers to discriminate in favor of blacks will make things worse. Also, it’s ridiculous. As one of the commenters wrote though, what’s really going on here is that corporate lawyers are trying to use “AI” algorithms as a new line of lawsuit defense for their companies, while “civil rights” lawyers are trying to prevent that. What we are seeing is just the surface froth of this subterranean struggle.

  125. Forbes says:
    @Steve Sailer

    Increase the penalties to the point of being draconian, e.g. 6 month suspended license and $2-5,000 in fines and legal fees on first offense, and lower the threshold of definition–and you get peoples’ attention to change behavior.

    When I was first driving–back in the last century–the legal limit in NYS was 0.15 BAC, it’s now 0.10 for intoxication, 0.07 for driving under the influence. It took 3 DWI convictions, but your license was revoked–and lots of offenders would plead hardship, and have work/commuter driving privileges granted by a judge.

  126. Svigor says:

    Jim Crowbot, lol. That’s a banned on twatter after gaining 10k followers waiting to happen.

  127. @Tyrion 2

    Would this then result in more “Women in Prison” movies?

    Interesting, interesting . . . :)

  128. Art Deco says:
    @notanon

    That is in error. I gave you the actual Census data from the American Community Survey and the Statistical Abstract. It also advances your argument very little.

  129. Art Deco says:
    @bomag

    An ethnostate wasn’t suggested, but interesting that the idea is immediately quashed.

    OK, the sentence

    “The problem is putting blacks and Whites together into one society and expecting them to behave the same. Of all people, you should know that.”

    “suggests” nothing at all, I take it.

    “I wouldn’t say that good policing is really a simpler solution, ”

    Solution 1: federate municipalities and set up metropolitan police forces. 2: hire about 540,000 additional police officers, which will require redeployment of about 0.6% of domestic product annually. 3: amend police tactics and patterns of deployment.

    Solution 2: run an ethnic cleansing operation and deport all the darkies to the swath of territory which runs from South Carolina to Louisiana. Worked in Yugoslavia, right?

    • Replies: @bomag
  130. bomag says:
    @Art Deco

    “The problem is putting blacks and Whites together into one society and expecting them to behave the same. Of all people, you should know that.”

    Doesn’t suggest an ethnostate solution; suggests that we should be realistic about differential levels of behavior and abilities.

    Solution 1: [more technocracy]

    I get it.

    Solution 2: …ethnic cleansing operation…

    LOL!

    Maybe have less hand wringing and stigma over segregated communities. We get them anyway.

    • Replies: @Art Deco
  131. Art Deco says:
    @bomag

    There isn’t any hand-wringing over residential concentrations, unless you count small NGOs like the Fund for an Open Society.

    Solution 1: [more technocracy]

    You have never lived and will never live in a society without public administration. Neither did my grandparents, nor my great grandparents. Life on the frontier may have been free of ‘technocrats’, but it wasn’t pleasant.

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