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From the Ettinger Report:

The Jewish-Arab demographic about-face
Yoram Ettinger
November 10, 2017

In 2017, Israel is the only advanced economy and Western democracy endowed with a relatively high fertility rate, which facilitates further economic growth with no reliance on migrant labor. Moreover, Israel’s thriving demography provides for bolstered national security (larger classes of recruits) and a more confident foreign policy.

In contrast to conventional demographic wisdom, Israel is not facing a potential Arab demographic time bomb. In fact, the Jewish State benefits from a robust Jewish demographic tailwind.

At the outset of 2017, for the first time – and in defiance of projections made by Israel’s demographic establishment since the early 1940s – Israel’s Jewish [total] fertility rate (3.16 births per woman) exceeds Israel’s Arab rate of fertility (3.11). Actually, in 2017, Israel’s fertility rate is higher than most Arab countries (e.g., Saudi Arabia – 2.1 births per woman, Kuwait – 2.4, Syria – 2.5, Morocco – 2.1, etc.).

The Westernization of the Arab fertility rate has also been in effect in Judea and Samaria

What is Judea and Samaria? The West Bank or Israel? I feel dumb not knowing this; on the other hand, I know a lot of other stuff because I haven’t devoted much time to the endless verbiage over this dispute.

: from 5 births per Arab woman in 2000 to about 3 in 2016; from a median age of 17 in 2000 to 21 in 2017.

The substantial, systematic Westernization of Arab fertility – from 9.5 births per woman in 1960 to 3.11 in 2016 – has been a derivative of the accelerated integration of Israeli Arabs into modernity, in general, and the enhanced status of Israel’s Arab women, in particular. …

At the same time, since 1995, there has been an unprecedented rise in the rate of Jewish fertility – especially in the secular sector – resulting from a relatively-high level of optimism, patriotism, attachment to national roots and collective/communal responsibility.

From 80,400 Jewish births in 1995, the number surged to 139,400 in 2016, while the annual number of Arab births remained stable at around 41,000. Contrary to conventional wisdom, the 73% rise in the number of Jewish births took place despite the mild decline of ultra-orthodox fertility (due to expanded integration into the employment market, higher learning and the military) and the stabilized modern-orthodox fertility, but due to the rising fertility of the secular Jewish sector.

Okay, but the percentage of Israeli Jews who are ultra-orthodox has gone up, so even if their fertility has undergone a mild decline, they might still be driving up overall Jewish fertility, right?

The unprecedented tailwind behind Israel’s burgeoning Jewish demography is documented by the proportion of Jewish births in the country: 77% of total births in 2016, compared with 69% in 1995. Also, in 2016, there were 3.2 Jewish births per Arab birth, compared to 2.2 births in 1995.

The increase in the number of Israeli Jews is having a cultural impact around the world, both in countries where they are starting to emulate Israeli thinking (e.g., Trump in America) and more directly by Israeli immigrants or binationals.

For example, Marvel, much in the news lately for Black Panther, was bought in 1996 by two Six Days War vets. Marvel’s main actresses include Natalie Portman, born in Israel, and Scarlett Johansson, who took to endorsing SodaStream, manufactured in the West Bank. DC finally turned itself around in 2017 by casting Gal Gadot, an Israeli Defense Force veteran, as Wonder Woman.

 
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  1. Israel is the only advanced economy and Western democracy

    Israel is neither Western nor a democracy. It clearly is not Western, if so then one can declare Lebanon Western as well. As for democracy, using the leftist definition of democracy (i.e. liberal), it is not that. Neither is it a democracy in terms of universal suffrage, not everyone is allowed to vote in the lands it has occupied.

    Read More
    • Agree: Nico
    • Replies: @AndrewR
    Shhh. You and I know that, but do we want the goyim knowing that?
    , @dearieme
    "Neither is it a democracy in terms of universal suffrage": that would be rather a bonkers definition of democracy though.
    , @anony-mouse
    Number of electoral votes, Senators, voting US Reps in Puerto Rico, Guam, USVI, Northern Mariana Islands, American Samoa?
    , @Tyrion 2
    Israel is Western enough for the progressive left to hate it and non-Western enough for the Nazi right to also hate it. It is vaguely Western, and quite a lot else. Russia flits in and out of the same category.

    On the other hand, it is clearly a democracy. Afghans don't vote in US elections nor do any other number of peoples who reside in countries that are patrolled by US soldiers. Nor is the contemporary US an exception in this regard. It is very much the norm.

    , @International Jew

    if so then one can declare Lebanon Western as well
     
    Lebanon was indisputably western, before the Christians there lost the demographic race. Beirut, in particular, was more western in 1960 than London is in 2018.
    , @Dmitry

    It clearly is not Western, if so then one can declare Lebanon Western as well.
     
    Western or Eastern (or even Soviet) Israel, depends entirely in which street you end up in.

    I was in Israel - far from my first time - last week.

    The European places in Israel feel like Europe (atmospherically). The Arab parts feel like the Arab world. The Mizrahi parts feel somewhere inbetween the two. And the Russian-speaking places feel like the 1980s Soviet union.

    These worlds can be suddenly crossed and experienced within the matter of minutes.

    You can experience this just in a few kilometers in Tel Aviv. If you walk down Rothschild Boulevard in Tel Aviv, you are in some kind of European utopia. It feels more like Western Europe, than anywhere in America, due to the feeling of personal safety, everyone on bicycles and lazing in cafes.

    If you walk in some upper class parts of Northern Tel Aviv, there are Viennese coffee cafes all over the place, selling Austrian style cakes. And you feel like you are in some 1920s Austria.

    On other hand, if you walk a few kilometers South, in Jaffa - you are directly inside an Arab world, as Middle Eastern as in Cairo or Damascus. Old men all over the street smoking hookah and trying to sell to you pale travellers their Arab souvenirs.

    This is not even to mention the bizarre contrasts of religions in Jerusalem.

    But driving into the real heartlands of Israel (and not just the tourist areas), you experience even more contrasts, such as areas where Soviet culture has impregnated - where in a certain day of year you can imagine the Soviet Union had successfully conquered and subjugated the Israelis.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OxdFEZchm4o

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  2. Word of caution: Celebratory claims about Israeli Jewish fertility, combined with theories about how the number of Palestinians in the West Bank (AKA Judea and Samaria) is actually lower than the official counts, is part of the message of Israel’s annexationist religious right.

    The idea is “We’re beating them demographically, so we can annex all the land and even give many of the Palestinians citizenship and still get to keep our country”. Israel’s religious rightists have large families, so that’s a scenario they can easily imagine. Not so much for the secular/not-so-religious Likud-voting working class, who have smaller families.

    In general, the divergent interests between the Netanyahu-Likud-Mizrachi-populist right and the Naftali Bennett-Jewish Home-Ashkenazi-religious/conservative right – the two most important groups in Israel’s ruling nationalist coalition – are a topic of increasing importance. I doubt they will ever come to open conflict, but it’s definitely a factor in policy-making.

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    • Replies: @Anonymouse
    "Word of caution: Celebratory claims about Israeli Jewish fertility, combined with theories about how the number of Palestinians in the West Bank (AKA Judea and Samaria) is actually lower than the official counts, is part of the message of Israel’s annexationist religious right."

    Au contraire! Demography studies from sober Israeli researchers is nothing new. The population of West Bank Arabs reported by the Palestinian Authority apparently includes lots of hanky panky in registration for UNWRA subsidies. Scamming UNWRA (handing out money since 1950) has to be allowed for in objective population estimates of West Bank Arabs. Israeli demographers point to a disparity in the reported death rate in the West Bank which does not jibe with population claims.

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  3. You never heard of the good Samaritan? They are a tribe of apostite Jews who picked a different mountain to build the second temple. Not many left.

    The point of the parable is there is good in all people, even those weirdo Samaritans. This was to convince Jews to let gentiles join the early church.

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  4. If you define Israel biblically, extending from the Nile to the Euphrates you can probably fit a billion people there comfortably. Oh, and the stuff about the stripes on the Israeli flag representing the Nile and the Euphrates, bunk’um.

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    • Replies: @Alden
    the 2 blue stripes are copies of their medieval prayer shawls. Many medieval paintings of Mary and Joseph and Old Testament characters have a 2 blue stripe prayer shawl hanging in the background.
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  5. Judea and Samaria refers to the 2 kingdoms: the northern kingdom of Israel, which was destroyed by the Assyrians, and the southern kingdom of Judea, which had Jerusalem as its capital and had the Temple of Solomon and was destroyed by the Neo-Babylonian/Chaldeans.

    In using those terms, a Jew – or an Anglophone Evangelical – is asserting 2 things: 1) that subsequent European ruling of the area, say by Greeks and then Romans, did not matter to them; and 2) that what rightly belongs to the modern state of Israel is all of what those 2 kingdoms ruled and all that they claimed as their right from God.

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  6. Confused. Jews warn whites that it is evil to have children because of the environment (unless you are a Somali immigrant then 10 kids is OK). But Jews are starting to have a lot of kids. Is it anti-Semitic of me to wonder why Jews have such different approaches to fertility rates depending on Jew or Goy?

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    • Replies: @Elvis Pressgang
    Are you really confused? My high school football team sometimes faked a handoff to the fullback running up the center, and then our QB would step back and throw to a wide receiver crossing into the middle ten yards up. Sometimes opposing teams would use the same play. We liked it when we did it. We didn't like when they did it.

    The goal is to win territory so that you win resources so that you can grow and win territory and win resources and on and on. The fact that you have to call yourself anti-Semitic shows who's winning the psychological war. An "anti-European", "anti-Aryan", what have you, is called, on the other side, simply a Jew.

    I want my enemies to have less children than I do. So do Jews. That makes it easier to take the territory for their own expanding population. And make no mistake, Kwa is the safety valve.
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  7. I believe the birthrate for non-Orthodox Israeli Jews is higher than any European birthrate. At least 50% higher? In Israel the secular and non-Orthodox are being influenced by the high Orthodox birthrates? Just might be.

    For fun Steve might check out the Bukharian Jews who immigrate to NYC. They must be having a birth explosion because they are notorious for knocking down modest houses in Queens and constructing as much of a mega-mansion as possible for the extended family. Their hallmark is to pave over the front lawn for family parking spaces. Chinese do the same and they are taking over Queens. There are now five Chinatowns in NYC and they are all expanding. The old one was in Manhattan. Now you have the others too in Brooklyn and Queens.
    I know all this via >> http://queenscrap.blogspot.com/ that has been around 10+ years

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    • Replies: @BaruchKogan
    >In Israel the secular and non-Orthodox are being influenced by the high Orthodox birthrates?

    Yes. In Israel, every religious person has secular family members (and vice versa.) When a secular Jewish woman visits her religious family members and sees their 5-10 kids, she naturally wants the same for herself. And on these matters, women ultimately decide.

    By contrast, most secular Americans (Jewish ones, too) do not have any (traditionally) religious family members, and are completely ignorant of that lifestyle, so have nothing to emulate or envy.
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  8. 99% of the time that the term “Western” or any of its derivatives is used, it’s used either too broadly, too narrowly, or otherwise ignorantly, and this case was no exception. I have a sense that most people just use the term in order to sound smart, and it almost always has the very opposite effect.

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  9. @neutral

    Israel is the only advanced economy and Western democracy
     
    Israel is neither Western nor a democracy. It clearly is not Western, if so then one can declare Lebanon Western as well. As for democracy, using the leftist definition of democracy (i.e. liberal), it is not that. Neither is it a democracy in terms of universal suffrage, not everyone is allowed to vote in the lands it has occupied.

    Shhh. You and I know that, but do we want the goyim knowing that?

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  10. DC finally turned itself around in 2017 by casting Gal Gadot, an Israeli Defense Force veteran, as Wonder Woman.

    WW’s success had more to do with DC not rushing it and entrusting it someone other than Zack Snyder. Gadot was cast as WW for Batman vs Superman: Dawn of Justice.

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  11. Interesting – I never knew the Portman-Marvel connection. Makes sense. I can’t figure out her appeal, which I think is waning anyway. She’s becoming a pest with that #Metoo stuff and claiming she was objectified after that first movie where she appeared half naked at age 13. I mean, WTF?

    ScarJo- well, she was the Brigitte Bardot of a certain generation. Not to me, but I don’t count. So I don’t think she got her jobs because she’s half-Jewish. She got them because she’s very appealing.

    Gadot, OTOH, is the real deal as far as star power is concerned, harking back to the foreign, brown-eyed loveliness of Hepburn and Loren. But like Loren, Hollywood won’t know what to do with her. Still, she’s got much more appeal than that gorgeous statue, Charlize Theron, and Theron has worked consistently since Monster, so we’ll see.

    JMO and “nobody knows anything.”

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  12. At the same time, since 1995, there has been an unprecedented rise in the rate of Jewish fertility – especially in the secular sector – resulting from a relatively-high level of optimism, patriotism, attachment to national roots and collective/communal responsibility.

    Why not just say nationalism and tribalism?

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  13. It’s like the nuclear arms race —it’s good for the West to show they could win it, but only so everybody could finally agree that it was a dangerously STUPID race and everybody is better off with a lot fewer nukes.

    “Demographic bomb” is just as stupid and it’d be great if everyone eventually realizes that it’s a terrible way for ideologies to compete.

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  14. How are they doing it, though? I mean the secular ones. Patriotism in other countries hasn’t convinced women to have more children.

    If high native birthrates can be achieved in developed countries around the world, it would be like a fist straight into the face of multiculturalist ideology.

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    • Replies: @Karl
    14 Jason Liu > How are they doing it, though? I mean the secular ones. Patriotism in other countries hasn’t convinced women to have more children

    "to build and be re-built"
    , @Alden
    Guess you don’t know it takes 2 to make a baby.
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  15. Judea and Samaria is simply the right-wing Israeli term for the Occupied Territories. Using the verbiage from 2,000 years ago makes it sound like it obviously belongs to Israel.

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    • Replies: @Lot
    And saying "Occupied Territories" identifies you are an Islamic stooge.

    By right of grant from God, by right of history, by right of conquest, by right of Trump's recognition of Israel's capital, the West Bank and East Jerusalem is the true and just territory of Israel. Indeed, by now three generations of Jews have been born on the beautiful new towns and farms since the 1967 conquest.
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  16. Is this why there are so many Israelis selling junk in the malls? They’re crowding their own country so the extras come here and crowd ours.

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    • Replies: @Alden
    They use the kiosk business for HI B visa fraud. They claim that the sales people have such rare and unusual skills they can’t find Americans to sell cheap sunglasses and hair bows.

    Proud to say I got one of those kiosk guys deported. He used the sales clerk visas to bring in prostitutes and set them up in brothels. I contacted the state department sex trafficking unit first. Then I kept reporting him to the FBI and the police and sheriffs in every city he went.

    It took about 2 years but they finally got rid of him. The girls weren’t israelis they were E Europeans and former soviets. The state department got right on it and pursued him vigorously. The state department people I worked with were all women by the way.
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  17. Scarlett Johansson is pretty Jewish. Just one who got her career started playing the shiksa goddess (Woody Allen’s Match Point was her peak, I guess). Not only is she half Jewish but she grew up in a very…New York if not religious milieu.

    Her high school boyfriend recently broke up with Lena Dunham:

    definitely an interesting life history to date Scarlett Johansson in high school and THEN get famous so you can date Lena Dunham.

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    • Replies: @Escher
    Wow, his dating fortunes really plummeted.
    OTOH, Dunham seems to have cleaned up a bit.
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  18. @neutral

    Israel is the only advanced economy and Western democracy
     
    Israel is neither Western nor a democracy. It clearly is not Western, if so then one can declare Lebanon Western as well. As for democracy, using the leftist definition of democracy (i.e. liberal), it is not that. Neither is it a democracy in terms of universal suffrage, not everyone is allowed to vote in the lands it has occupied.

    “Neither is it a democracy in terms of universal suffrage”: that would be rather a bonkers definition of democracy though.

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  19. Marvel is owned by Disney. Thus Israelis are trivial compared to gays and SJW types like Kathleen Kennedy. Disney neither wants nor needs outside money.

    They want to send a message. An all gay, Black, female universe like in Star Wars Last White Guy

    Portman, Gadot, Johansson are problems BC they are Jewish. The future of Hollywood is N’Pita Bread Lyuango and Precious.

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  20. “I haven’t devoted much time to the endless verbiage over this dispute.” Be careful, iSteve. When I wrote a blog comment elsewhere to the general effect that I didn’t take sides in that dispute I was immediately accused of anti-semitism.

    I treat the verbiage by both sides as likely to be so packed with lies that I wouldn’t dream of wasting my time on it.

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  21. @IHTG
    Word of caution: Celebratory claims about Israeli Jewish fertility, combined with theories about how the number of Palestinians in the West Bank (AKA Judea and Samaria) is actually lower than the official counts, is part of the message of Israel's annexationist religious right.

    The idea is "We're beating them demographically, so we can annex all the land and even give many of the Palestinians citizenship and still get to keep our country". Israel's religious rightists have large families, so that's a scenario they can easily imagine. Not so much for the secular/not-so-religious Likud-voting working class, who have smaller families.

    In general, the divergent interests between the Netanyahu-Likud-Mizrachi-populist right and the Naftali Bennett-Jewish Home-Ashkenazi-religious/conservative right - the two most important groups in Israel's ruling nationalist coalition - are a topic of increasing importance. I doubt they will ever come to open conflict, but it's definitely a factor in policy-making.

    “Word of caution: Celebratory claims about Israeli Jewish fertility, combined with theories about how the number of Palestinians in the West Bank (AKA Judea and Samaria) is actually lower than the official counts, is part of the message of Israel’s annexationist religious right.”

    Au contraire! Demography studies from sober Israeli researchers is nothing new. The population of West Bank Arabs reported by the Palestinian Authority apparently includes lots of hanky panky in registration for UNWRA subsidies. Scamming UNWRA (handing out money since 1950) has to be allowed for in objective population estimates of West Bank Arabs. Israeli demographers point to a disparity in the reported death rate in the West Bank which does not jibe with population claims.

    Read More
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  22. Judea and Samaria is the Israeli term for the West Bank, which was part of Israel in ancient times, as well as immediately before the Roman conquest of Israel.

    Samaritans still exist in Israel but are quickly assimilating through Jewish intermarriage.

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    • Replies: @Seamus Padraig

    Judea and Samaria is the Israeli term for the West Bank ...
     
    Does that make the Palestinians Judeans and Samaritans? ;-)
    , @BaruchKogan
    Right. Judea and Samaria (and Binyamin, where I live) is the historical term for the area. "West Bank" is geographically nonsense, made up quite recently.

    You've got Samaritans confused with Karaites here. Jews can't marry Samaritans, and most Samaritans have converted to Islam and been assimilated by the Arabs (half of Shechem is made up of their descendants.)
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  23. What is Judea and Samaria? The West Bank or Israel? I feel dumb not knowing this; on the other hand, I know a lot of other stuff because I haven’t devoted much time to the endless verbiage over this dispute.

    Well done, Steve!

    This is an ethnic territorial dispute over pretty small bits of territory. King County (Seattle, burbs, to the mountains) has the size and population of the West Bank. Or in your neck of the woods, Israel and Palestinian territories together are essentially Los Angeles County–similar population–with a bunch of desert tacked on to get the area right. Or for East Coasters, this is over something about the size of Massachuetts with something less than the double the population.

    Yet is sucks up incredible oxygen. You say “foreign policy” in the US and it seems like half of it revolves around Israel. Israel and paying off Egypt, Jordan, the Palestianians for peace with Israel is the lion’s share of our foreign aid. (Ok, the Afghanistan project is in the mix now too.)

    Post-cold war–and arguably even more important–the rise of China is certainly the most important, “foreign policy” development. By far. (The only more important development in the world more important is the murder/suicide of the West–not explicitly for the US a “foreign policy” issue.) It gets a tiny fraction of the attention of Israel, blah, blah, blah.

    It’s ridiculous. A dis-interested alien seeing our ridiculously skewed politics and press coverage would have to conclude that Israel/Palestine are the only source of vibraniam.

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    • Replies: @fredyetagain aka superhonky
    "It’s ridiculous. A dis-interested alien seeing our ridiculously skewed politics and press coverage would have to conclude that Israel/Palestine are the only source of vibraniam."

    Unfortunately, we have some very, very interested (((aliens))) skewing our foreign policy in the unfortunate direction you mention.
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  24. @neutral

    Israel is the only advanced economy and Western democracy
     
    Israel is neither Western nor a democracy. It clearly is not Western, if so then one can declare Lebanon Western as well. As for democracy, using the leftist definition of democracy (i.e. liberal), it is not that. Neither is it a democracy in terms of universal suffrage, not everyone is allowed to vote in the lands it has occupied.

    Number of electoral votes, Senators, voting US Reps in Puerto Rico, Guam, USVI, Northern Mariana Islands, American Samoa?

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  25. Steve Sailer says:

    What is Judea and Samaria? The West Bank or Israel? I feel dumb not knowing this; on the other hand, I know a lot of other stuff because I haven’t devoted much time to the endless verbiage over this dispute.

    “Astronaut” by David Byrne:

    I surf the net
    And watch TV
    There’s peace in the Middle East
    Feel like I’m an astronaut
    Now I am an astronaut

    Baby boomers Byrne and Sailer both cast a cold eye on the turmoil in the Middle East. I wish baby boomer George W Bush would have cast a cold eye on the Middle East and its problems. George W Bush dragged the US military into all the problems of the Middle East. Baby boomer Bush wasted thousands of lives and blood and much treasure in the shithole that is the Middle East.

    Even the Southerners are reconsidering their Bible-based foreign policy views on military interventionism after the Iraq War debacle.

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    • Replies: @Dave Pinsen
    Thomas Wictor says Israelis and Arabs are friends now.

    https://twitter.com/ThomasWictor/status/966559847641567232
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  26. @neutral

    Israel is the only advanced economy and Western democracy
     
    Israel is neither Western nor a democracy. It clearly is not Western, if so then one can declare Lebanon Western as well. As for democracy, using the leftist definition of democracy (i.e. liberal), it is not that. Neither is it a democracy in terms of universal suffrage, not everyone is allowed to vote in the lands it has occupied.

    Israel is Western enough for the progressive left to hate it and non-Western enough for the Nazi right to also hate it. It is vaguely Western, and quite a lot else. Russia flits in and out of the same category.

    On the other hand, it is clearly a democracy. Afghans don’t vote in US elections nor do any other number of peoples who reside in countries that are patrolled by US soldiers. Nor is the contemporary US an exception in this regard. It is very much the norm.

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    • Replies: @Anonymous
    This is similar to Iran before its revolution, which aspired to be seen as a western country, but that meant it was held to western standards of civil and political rights--standards which no other country in the region was held to. The shah was hated by both western liberals and Shi'ite clergymen for being simultaneously too western and not western enough. Their cooperation to bring him down was one of history's strangest political alliances.
    , @Hunsdon
    Bzzt! America does not claim Afghanistan as its sovereign territory, which is an elementary distinction.
    , @Dmitry

    Israel is Western enough for the progressive left to hate it and non-Western enough for the Nazi right to also hate it. It is vaguely Western, and quite a lot else. Russia flits in and out of the same category.

    On the other hand, it is clearly a democracy. Afghans don’t vote in US elections nor do any other number of peoples who reside in countries that are patrolled by US soldiers. Nor is the contemporary US an exception in this regard. It is very much the norm.
     

    Some parts are more Western than you can imagine (maybe more Western than the West), and other parts are more Middle Eastern than you can imagine (probably making Cairo seem developed by comparison) - and there are also other levels of contrast which don't fit on that spectrum. The easy categorization is not possible for a country which has so many contrasts within itself from area to area.

    Really it is exactly as it should be expected, or slightly more so. The areas where Europeans settled, took on a terribly, exaggerated European atmosphere. The areas where Middle Easterners settled, are as Middle Eastern as any part of the Middle East. And the areas (usually far off the tourist track) where post-Soviet immigration landed, have some kind of atmosphere like you were in the 1980s Soviet Union.

    But somehow the country fits together in a relatively functional way.

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  27. @AnotherDad

    What is Judea and Samaria? The West Bank or Israel? I feel dumb not knowing this; on the other hand, I know a lot of other stuff because I haven’t devoted much time to the endless verbiage over this dispute.
     
    Well done, Steve!

    This is an ethnic territorial dispute over pretty small bits of territory. King County (Seattle, burbs, to the mountains) has the size and population of the West Bank. Or in your neck of the woods, Israel and Palestinian territories together are essentially Los Angeles County--similar population--with a bunch of desert tacked on to get the area right. Or for East Coasters, this is over something about the size of Massachuetts with something less than the double the population.

    Yet is sucks up incredible oxygen. You say "foreign policy" in the US and it seems like half of it revolves around Israel. Israel and paying off Egypt, Jordan, the Palestianians for peace with Israel is the lion's share of our foreign aid. (Ok, the Afghanistan project is in the mix now too.)

    Post-cold war--and arguably even more important--the rise of China is certainly the most important, "foreign policy" development. By far. (The only more important development in the world more important is the murder/suicide of the West--not explicitly for the US a "foreign policy" issue.) It gets a tiny fraction of the attention of Israel, blah, blah, blah.

    It's ridiculous. A dis-interested alien seeing our ridiculously skewed politics and press coverage would have to conclude that Israel/Palestine are the only source of vibraniam.

    “It’s ridiculous. A dis-interested alien seeing our ridiculously skewed politics and press coverage would have to conclude that Israel/Palestine are the only source of vibraniam.”

    Unfortunately, we have some very, very interested (((aliens))) skewing our foreign policy in the unfortunate direction you mention.

    Read More
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  28. Contrary to conventional wisdom, the 73% rise in the number of Jewish births took place despite the mild decline of ultra-orthodox fertility (due to expanded integration into the employment market, higher learning and the military) and the stabilized modern-orthodox fertility, but due to the rising fertility of the secular Jewish sector.

    Okay, but the percentage of Israeli Jews who are ultra-orthodox has gone up, so even if their fertility has undergone a mild decline, they might still be driving up overall Jewish fertility, right?

    Math is hard!

    At this point there’s little to be said about the mathematical illiteracy of our “elite” chattering classes.

    But it does matter. A nation.s elite need not understand group theory or solve differential equations or even be able to do calculus. But having an intuitive heuristic / back-of-the-envelope level of 6th grade math–arithmetic vs. geometric series–and algebra really does matter.

    In fairness to the author, as i understand from the report biz or someone forwarded, Israel Jewish secular fertility is indeed up. But the total fertility number is up because of that and the more fecund religious groups being relatively larger slices of the population. And the impressive raw numerical rise in Jewish births also involves Russian “Jewish” inmigration simply providing more warm bodies–warm wombs–to produce more warm babies. In other words it’s not just one thing.

    Here in the US, the abject stupidity of our immigration policy and immigration debates are not just because of ethnic hostility, greed and copious virtue signalling–although that’s all there and indeed the main problem. But it’s also because we have an “elite” who doesn’t even do enough mathematical thinking to think critically about differential fertility or notice the self-destructive character that is mathematically inherent in a “nation of immigrants”/immigration forever policy.

    It doesn’t have to be their life’s avocation, but a nation needs leaders who are basically mathematically literate–as well as being on the side of the people–or you die.

    Read More
    • Agree: RadicalCenter
    • Replies: @songbird
    In the past, I've wondered whether progressivism is in fact just some form of innumeracy. Not in education, but in instinct. Perhaps a sort of sense-blindness when it comes to numbers in social policy.

    Makes sense nearly all around. Taxing, spending, printing money. Immigration policy.
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  29. @Lot
    Judea and Samaria is the Israeli term for the West Bank, which was part of Israel in ancient times, as well as immediately before the Roman conquest of Israel.

    Samaritans still exist in Israel but are quickly assimilating through Jewish intermarriage.

    Judea and Samaria is the Israeli term for the West Bank …

    Does that make the Palestinians Judeans and Samaritans? ;-)

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    • Replies: @Karl
    29 Seamus Padrig > Does that make the Palestinians Judeans and Samaritans?

    In my view, the Palestinians have the same position in Israel as the Amish do in Pennsylvania. They have 100% of individual civil rights. They do not have any right to establish their own polity.

    There ==already is== an Palestinian Arabic-speaking country inside of Historic Palestine..... its current name is The Kingdom of Jordan

    If the Hashemite family ever decides to give us an actual big headache about who has the right to control the Temple Mount, we will park that family right next to the final Czar's family
    , @Lot
    No, they are Arabs, and would find Saudi Arabia a weaker but richer place to colonize if they got their crqp together.
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  30. @neutral

    Israel is the only advanced economy and Western democracy
     
    Israel is neither Western nor a democracy. It clearly is not Western, if so then one can declare Lebanon Western as well. As for democracy, using the leftist definition of democracy (i.e. liberal), it is not that. Neither is it a democracy in terms of universal suffrage, not everyone is allowed to vote in the lands it has occupied.

    if so then one can declare Lebanon Western as well

    Lebanon was indisputably western, before the Christians there lost the demographic race. Beirut, in particular, was more western in 1960 than London is in 2018.

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    • Replies: @istevefan

    before the Christians there lost the demographic race.
     
    It's one thing to have a demographic race where you are competing with those already in your nation. It's quite another to have to compete when others are flooding into your nation. I am sure it did not help Lebanon that a bunch of displaced Palestinians sought refuge there.

    I don't know enough about the local politics, but maybe Lebanon should welcome all the Iraqi and Syrian Christians and other Arab Christians who fear for their safety. Lebanon could be the middle-eastern Christian version of Israel. I bet Israel would be happy for Lebanon to go this route and the two would get along well.

    But I imagine there are too many muslims already in Lebanon to allow this to happen. I don't think muslims could be guilt-tripped into accepting Christian refugees knowing full well what happens when the demographics change.
    , @Anonymous
    If Christianity is the criterion for "Western", then that would mean Israel isn't "Western".

    If "Western" means anything, it means indigenous European. That excludes Lebanon for geographic, ethnic, and cultural reasons, regardless of religion.
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  31. @AnotherDad


    Contrary to conventional wisdom, the 73% rise in the number of Jewish births took place despite the mild decline of ultra-orthodox fertility (due to expanded integration into the employment market, higher learning and the military) and the stabilized modern-orthodox fertility, but due to the rising fertility of the secular Jewish sector.
     
    Okay, but the percentage of Israeli Jews who are ultra-orthodox has gone up, so even if their fertility has undergone a mild decline, they might still be driving up overall Jewish fertility, right?
     
    Math is hard!

    At this point there's little to be said about the mathematical illiteracy of our "elite" chattering classes.

    But it does matter. A nation.s elite need not understand group theory or solve differential equations or even be able to do calculus. But having an intuitive heuristic / back-of-the-envelope level of 6th grade math--arithmetic vs. geometric series--and algebra really does matter.

    In fairness to the author, as i understand from the report biz or someone forwarded, Israel Jewish secular fertility is indeed up. But the total fertility number is up because of that and the more fecund religious groups being relatively larger slices of the population. And the impressive raw numerical rise in Jewish births also involves Russian "Jewish" inmigration simply providing more warm bodies--warm wombs--to produce more warm babies. In other words it's not just one thing.

    Here in the US, the abject stupidity of our immigration policy and immigration debates are not just because of ethnic hostility, greed and copious virtue signalling--although that's all there and indeed the main problem. But it's also because we have an "elite" who doesn't even do enough mathematical thinking to think critically about differential fertility or notice the self-destructive character that is mathematically inherent in a "nation of immigrants"/immigration forever policy.

    It doesn't have to be their life's avocation, but a nation needs leaders who are basically mathematically literate--as well as being on the side of the people--or you die.

    In the past, I’ve wondered whether progressivism is in fact just some form of innumeracy. Not in education, but in instinct. Perhaps a sort of sense-blindness when it comes to numbers in social policy.

    Makes sense nearly all around. Taxing, spending, printing money. Immigration policy.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Clyde

    In the past, I’ve wondered whether progressivism is in fact just some form of innumeracy. Not in education, but in instinct. Perhaps a sort of sense-blindness when it comes to numbers in social policy.
     
    Agree on their innumeracy. Willful ignorance is bliss. More proof is the sloppy accounting done in many branches and agencies of government, Federal, state, county. Done on purpose so that it is difficult to hold them to account.
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  32. @Political Wilderness
    Judea and Samaria is simply the right-wing Israeli term for the Occupied Territories. Using the verbiage from 2,000 years ago makes it sound like it obviously belongs to Israel.

    And saying “Occupied Territories” identifies you are an Islamic stooge.

    By right of grant from God, by right of history, by right of conquest, by right of Trump’s recognition of Israel’s capital, the West Bank and East Jerusalem is the true and just territory of Israel. Indeed, by now three generations of Jews have been born on the beautiful new towns and farms since the 1967 conquest.

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    • Troll: Highlander
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Ok so if might makes right, can you tell Israel to shut up now about the holocaust and anti-Semitism?
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  33. Am I the only one who is both pro-Israeli expansion and pro-Assad? (I also like his father, who was an honorable enemy of the West, patriot, and loyal Soviet ally). I understand why Israel is taking the Saudi side in the Saudi-Iran cold war. There is not much choice given that is also US policy, and because Iran supports anti-Israel terrorism.

    However, in the long run I see Iranians and Shiites more generally as possible to live with. The low Iranian birthrate and securalist election victories are sources of hope. I see much less hope we can ever go beyond the most temporary truces with Arab and African Sunni groups.

    My preferred end game is crash program to get all of the West off of middle east energy, net negative Muslim immigration, and an anti-Sunni alliance with Israel, India, Iraq, Syria and Iran. They are destroyers of civilization, and should be cordoned off from the civilized world in a larger version of Gaza Strip.

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    • Replies: @Nico
    Globally I tend to share your worldview though I am *somewhat* less optimistic about Israel as a partner for good, at least in the near term. That the most strident direct backing of anti-Israel movements has come from Shi’a states does seem to be rather an accident of history born of strange Cold War-era power games. OTOH, it was a mistake to create Israel in the first place, insofar as her absence would make it far easier to jump from the peninsular Arabian states as the focus of our regional alliances to the Fertile Crescent/Iranian states, a shift which has been needed since at least 2001. Our commitment to that pesky and for the moment largely parasitic State of Israel ties our hands, but since they’re obviously not going anywhere we can only pray we’ll be able to bide our time until the past is past and the Arab world is resigned (if not exactly “reconciled”) to the existence of Israel as a Jewish state.

    Meanwhile I’d like to find some way to clam the traps of their coreligionists in our own states before they become permanently un-white and un-Christian.
    , @istevefan

    However, in the long run I see Iranians and Shiites more generally as possible to live with.
     
    Most conservatives I talk to do not understand that Shiites are not as dangerous to us as the Sunni. Guys like Wictor, about whom Dave P. posted, have taken the side of the Sunnis because the Sunnis are now cooperating with Israel because of their hatred of Shiites and Persians.

    I can understand Israel's immediate concern with Iran and anyone in the middle east who is an Iranian ally. But from a Western Civ. point of view, it is not the Shia who are invading our countries. It is not the Shia who are committing acts of terror on our soil. The Sunnis have a belief that colonizing the non-muslim world is fulfilling some sort of religious prophecy.

    Many conservatives seem to have forgotten that the Saudis are the ones who told Germany, "hey we won't take any migrants, but we will pay for the construction of new mosques in Germany." "You cool with that?"

    Saudis were also the guys who did 9-11, but as Wictor often says, that was 3 kings ago and today's Saudi Arabia is A-OK because they just gave permission for women to drive cars!

    Just like they stood by and watched illegal labor cross the border to do the jobs Americans would not, conservatives are showing a remarkable lack of foresight.
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  34. @Lot
    Am I the only one who is both pro-Israeli expansion and pro-Assad? (I also like his father, who was an honorable enemy of the West, patriot, and loyal Soviet ally). I understand why Israel is taking the Saudi side in the Saudi-Iran cold war. There is not much choice given that is also US policy, and because Iran supports anti-Israel terrorism.

    However, in the long run I see Iranians and Shiites more generally as possible to live with. The low Iranian birthrate and securalist election victories are sources of hope. I see much less hope we can ever go beyond the most temporary truces with Arab and African Sunni groups.

    My preferred end game is crash program to get all of the West off of middle east energy, net negative Muslim immigration, and an anti-Sunni alliance with Israel, India, Iraq, Syria and Iran. They are destroyers of civilization, and should be cordoned off from the civilized world in a larger version of Gaza Strip.

    Globally I tend to share your worldview though I am *somewhat* less optimistic about Israel as a partner for good, at least in the near term. That the most strident direct backing of anti-Israel movements has come from Shi’a states does seem to be rather an accident of history born of strange Cold War-era power games. OTOH, it was a mistake to create Israel in the first place, insofar as her absence would make it far easier to jump from the peninsular Arabian states as the focus of our regional alliances to the Fertile Crescent/Iranian states, a shift which has been needed since at least 2001. Our commitment to that pesky and for the moment largely parasitic State of Israel ties our hands, but since they’re obviously not going anywhere we can only pray we’ll be able to bide our time until the past is past and the Arab world is resigned (if not exactly “reconciled”) to the existence of Israel as a Jewish state.

    Meanwhile I’d like to find some way to clam the traps of their coreligionists in our own states before they become permanently un-white and un-Christian.

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  35. @Charles Pewitt
    Steve Sailer says:

    What is Judea and Samaria? The West Bank or Israel? I feel dumb not knowing this; on the other hand, I know a lot of other stuff because I haven’t devoted much time to the endless verbiage over this dispute.

     

    "Astronaut" by David Byrne:

    I surf the net
    And watch TV
    There's peace in the Middle East
    Feel like I'm an astronaut
    Now I am an astronaut

    Baby boomers Byrne and Sailer both cast a cold eye on the turmoil in the Middle East. I wish baby boomer George W Bush would have cast a cold eye on the Middle East and its problems. George W Bush dragged the US military into all the problems of the Middle East. Baby boomer Bush wasted thousands of lives and blood and much treasure in the shithole that is the Middle East.

    Even the Southerners are reconsidering their Bible-based foreign policy views on military interventionism after the Iraq War debacle.

    https://youtu.be/UMUF0w20yOM

    Thomas Wictor says Israelis and Arabs are friends now.

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    • Replies: @istevefan
    Wictor has become infatuated with the Sunni Arabs now that they have become allies of Israel. However, for being a pro-Israeli guy he seems to have some strange views. For example he recently tweeted this which suggest he supports a one-state solution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.

    No. The Palestinians have already lost.

    But they'll prefer living as Israelis than as Palestinians under their corrupt terrorist masters.
     
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  36. Israel is neither Western nor a democracy.

    Jews will object to this because hasbara, and because they like arguing, and because their narrative changes constantly depending on their audience, but they believe it themselves. Whenever Israel is criticized, Zionists’ go-to comparisons for Israel are Saudi Arabia, Syria, Egypt, Iran, etc., not the USA, UK, France, Germany, etc.

    As for democracy, using the leftist definition of democracy (i.e. liberal), it is not that

    And the leftist definition is the one diaspora Jews use in the west. Sauce, gander.

    “Neither is it a democracy in terms of universal suffrage”: that would be rather a bonkers definition of democracy though.

    Yeah, but the last time you want to fail to apply the bonkers definition currently in use is when the people most responsible for instituting it want an exception for themselves.

    Israel is Western enough for the progressive left to hate it

    In the American context at least, your definition of “progressive left” excludes anyone with any political power.

    and non-Western enough for the Nazi right to also hate it.

    Jews are supposed to be savvy. Do we just get the commie Jews who can’t argue and use stale old arguments here? Alt-righters love Israel; they use Israel to justify their own positions. Rightists have been using this tactic for a generation now. Know who lies all the time and can’t tell the truth to save their lives? Leftists.

    You couldn’t pay me to remove Israel from the map.

    Word of caution: Celebratory claims about Israeli Jewish fertility, combined with theories about how the number of Palestinians in the West Bank (AKA Judea and Samaria) is actually lower than the official counts, is part of the message of Israel’s annexationist religious right.

    It will be interesting to see how quickly Israel can make the desert bloom, vs. how quickly they’re breeding. Israel will need a lot less lebensraum if they can find a way to make the territory they have fertile. There’s a lot of land in Israel that isn’t very populated.

    And saying “Occupied Territories” identifies you are an Islamic stooge.

    By right of grant from God, by right of history, by right of conquest, by right of Trump’s recognition of Israel’s capital, the West Bank and East Jerusalem is the true and just territory of Israel. Indeed, by now three generations of Jews have been born on the beautiful new towns and farms since the 1967 conquest.

    By dint of Jewish behavior, all of that is nullified; Jews would never tolerate (and in fact have made a national sport of condemning) this kind of thinking or behavior from Whites.

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  37. > I feel dumb not knowing this

    Ettinger’s alter ego visited your part of California; he asked some of your relatives, and asked some Mexicans – Is this place Anglo or Mexican?

    Ettinger got two different answers; now he feels dumb not knowing the correct answer.

    so visit here. With an open mind about moving here.

    The schools are better than California’s, and our Russians are smarter than Svigor.

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  38. I understand why Israel is taking the Saudi side in the Saudi-Iran cold war. There is not much choice given that is also US policy, and because Iran supports anti-Israel terrorism.

    I doubt that US policy would survive much opposition from the Jewish diaspora. Do we have any evidence of such opposition being widespread? Any at all?

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  39. @Seamus Padraig

    Judea and Samaria is the Israeli term for the West Bank ...
     
    Does that make the Palestinians Judeans and Samaritans? ;-)

    29 Seamus Padrig > Does that make the Palestinians Judeans and Samaritans?

    In my view, the Palestinians have the same position in Israel as the Amish do in Pennsylvania. They have 100% of individual civil rights. They do not have any right to establish their own polity.

    There ==already is== an Palestinian Arabic-speaking country inside of Historic Palestine….. its current name is The Kingdom of Jordan

    If the Hashemite family ever decides to give us an actual big headache about who has the right to control the Temple Mount, we will park that family right next to the final Czar’s family

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    • Replies: @Alden
    so Jews are still proud of having killed the Russian royal family and the horrors you inflicted in Russia and Central Europe?
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  40. Read More
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  41. @International Jew

    if so then one can declare Lebanon Western as well
     
    Lebanon was indisputably western, before the Christians there lost the demographic race. Beirut, in particular, was more western in 1960 than London is in 2018.

    before the Christians there lost the demographic race.

    It’s one thing to have a demographic race where you are competing with those already in your nation. It’s quite another to have to compete when others are flooding into your nation. I am sure it did not help Lebanon that a bunch of displaced Palestinians sought refuge there.

    I don’t know enough about the local politics, but maybe Lebanon should welcome all the Iraqi and Syrian Christians and other Arab Christians who fear for their safety. Lebanon could be the middle-eastern Christian version of Israel. I bet Israel would be happy for Lebanon to go this route and the two would get along well.

    But I imagine there are too many muslims already in Lebanon to allow this to happen. I don’t think muslims could be guilt-tripped into accepting Christian refugees knowing full well what happens when the demographics change.

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  42. Israel is neither Western nor a Democracy.

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  43. @Dave Pinsen
    Thomas Wictor says Israelis and Arabs are friends now.

    https://twitter.com/ThomasWictor/status/966559847641567232

    Wictor has become infatuated with the Sunni Arabs now that they have become allies of Israel. However, for being a pro-Israeli guy he seems to have some strange views. For example he recently tweeted this which suggest he supports a one-state solution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.

    No. The Palestinians have already lost.

    But they’ll prefer living as Israelis than as Palestinians under their corrupt terrorist masters.

    Read More
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  44. @songbird
    In the past, I've wondered whether progressivism is in fact just some form of innumeracy. Not in education, but in instinct. Perhaps a sort of sense-blindness when it comes to numbers in social policy.

    Makes sense nearly all around. Taxing, spending, printing money. Immigration policy.

    In the past, I’ve wondered whether progressivism is in fact just some form of innumeracy. Not in education, but in instinct. Perhaps a sort of sense-blindness when it comes to numbers in social policy.

    Agree on their innumeracy. Willful ignorance is bliss. More proof is the sloppy accounting done in many branches and agencies of government, Federal, state, county. Done on purpose so that it is difficult to hold them to account.

    Read More
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  45. @Lot
    Am I the only one who is both pro-Israeli expansion and pro-Assad? (I also like his father, who was an honorable enemy of the West, patriot, and loyal Soviet ally). I understand why Israel is taking the Saudi side in the Saudi-Iran cold war. There is not much choice given that is also US policy, and because Iran supports anti-Israel terrorism.

    However, in the long run I see Iranians and Shiites more generally as possible to live with. The low Iranian birthrate and securalist election victories are sources of hope. I see much less hope we can ever go beyond the most temporary truces with Arab and African Sunni groups.

    My preferred end game is crash program to get all of the West off of middle east energy, net negative Muslim immigration, and an anti-Sunni alliance with Israel, India, Iraq, Syria and Iran. They are destroyers of civilization, and should be cordoned off from the civilized world in a larger version of Gaza Strip.

    However, in the long run I see Iranians and Shiites more generally as possible to live with.

    Most conservatives I talk to do not understand that Shiites are not as dangerous to us as the Sunni. Guys like Wictor, about whom Dave P. posted, have taken the side of the Sunnis because the Sunnis are now cooperating with Israel because of their hatred of Shiites and Persians.

    I can understand Israel’s immediate concern with Iran and anyone in the middle east who is an Iranian ally. But from a Western Civ. point of view, it is not the Shia who are invading our countries. It is not the Shia who are committing acts of terror on our soil. The Sunnis have a belief that colonizing the non-muslim world is fulfilling some sort of religious prophecy.

    Many conservatives seem to have forgotten that the Saudis are the ones who told Germany, “hey we won’t take any migrants, but we will pay for the construction of new mosques in Germany.” “You cool with that?”

    Saudis were also the guys who did 9-11, but as Wictor often says, that was 3 kings ago and today’s Saudi Arabia is A-OK because they just gave permission for women to drive cars!

    Just like they stood by and watched illegal labor cross the border to do the jobs Americans would not, conservatives are showing a remarkable lack of foresight.

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    • Replies: @Lot
    I also like how the various non-Iranian Shiite sects have incorporated elements of Christian, Jewish and even Neo-Platonic religion. But the Sunnis seem to be led by nothing but dirty-bearded idiots who spent years memorizing the Koran and valorize the most barbaric aspects of ancient Arab culture.

    Supposedly Assad's Alewite sect was half-way Christian 100 years ago.
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  46. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Tyrion 2
    Israel is Western enough for the progressive left to hate it and non-Western enough for the Nazi right to also hate it. It is vaguely Western, and quite a lot else. Russia flits in and out of the same category.

    On the other hand, it is clearly a democracy. Afghans don't vote in US elections nor do any other number of peoples who reside in countries that are patrolled by US soldiers. Nor is the contemporary US an exception in this regard. It is very much the norm.

    This is similar to Iran before its revolution, which aspired to be seen as a western country, but that meant it was held to western standards of civil and political rights–standards which no other country in the region was held to. The shah was hated by both western liberals and Shi’ite clergymen for being simultaneously too western and not western enough. Their cooperation to bring him down was one of history’s strangest political alliances.

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    • Agree: Tyrion 2
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  47. @Jason Liu
    How are they doing it, though? I mean the secular ones. Patriotism in other countries hasn't convinced women to have more children.

    If high native birthrates can be achieved in developed countries around the world, it would be like a fist straight into the face of multiculturalist ideology.

    14 Jason Liu > How are they doing it, though? I mean the secular ones. Patriotism in other countries hasn’t convinced women to have more children

    “to build and be re-built”

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  48. @International Jew

    if so then one can declare Lebanon Western as well
     
    Lebanon was indisputably western, before the Christians there lost the demographic race. Beirut, in particular, was more western in 1960 than London is in 2018.

    If Christianity is the criterion for “Western”, then that would mean Israel isn’t “Western”.

    If “Western” means anything, it means indigenous European. That excludes Lebanon for geographic, ethnic, and cultural reasons, regardless of religion.

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    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    If “Western” means anything, it means indigenous European.
     
    Just ask if Ashkenazi Jews are European.

    The Arabist-- Arab or otherwise-- will say, "Yes! Undoubtedly yes!" The "white nationalist" (or whatever) will say, "No! Undoubtedly no!"
    , @International Jew
    My reason for calling 1960 Lebanon "western" was not that it was a mostly (by then about 50%) Christian country. Lebanon was western (ok, quasi-western) because it looked to Europe for its model in many things. It is true, however, that Lebanon's Christians were by and large the most westernized sector.

    Israel is western in the same way, just substitute "Jews" for "Christians". Because Israel's Muslims aren't so western.
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  49. @Lot
    And saying "Occupied Territories" identifies you are an Islamic stooge.

    By right of grant from God, by right of history, by right of conquest, by right of Trump's recognition of Israel's capital, the West Bank and East Jerusalem is the true and just territory of Israel. Indeed, by now three generations of Jews have been born on the beautiful new towns and farms since the 1967 conquest.

    Ok so if might makes right, can you tell Israel to shut up now about the holocaust and anti-Semitism?

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  50. @Tyrion 2
    Israel is Western enough for the progressive left to hate it and non-Western enough for the Nazi right to also hate it. It is vaguely Western, and quite a lot else. Russia flits in and out of the same category.

    On the other hand, it is clearly a democracy. Afghans don't vote in US elections nor do any other number of peoples who reside in countries that are patrolled by US soldiers. Nor is the contemporary US an exception in this regard. It is very much the norm.

    Bzzt! America does not claim Afghanistan as its sovereign territory, which is an elementary distinction.

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    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    America does not claim Afghanistan as its sovereign territory, which is an elementary distinction.
     
    So Arizona, New Mexico, and the Falkland Islands are not democratic? Nor Sakhalin Island? Or Gibraltar? Or any country containing a piece of Kurdistan?
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  51. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    I understand that New York and other cities are full of ambitious young Israelis out to make their fortunes. This trend will only increase in future. It’s a wonderful transformation of Israel’s circumstances that it now has a surplus of people and will in future become a source rather than destination of migration

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    • Replies: @Alden
    Supposedly about a fifth of the Jewish population of Israel lives in the united states. Maybe some of them are draft dodgers. Or maybe it’s a symptom that the socialist scientific technological capitalist paradise isn’t working out as well as it claims despite billions in American aid every year.
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  52. @Anonymous
    If Christianity is the criterion for "Western", then that would mean Israel isn't "Western".

    If "Western" means anything, it means indigenous European. That excludes Lebanon for geographic, ethnic, and cultural reasons, regardless of religion.

    If “Western” means anything, it means indigenous European.

    Just ask if Ashkenazi Jews are European.

    The Arabist– Arab or otherwise– will say, “Yes! Undoubtedly yes!” The “white nationalist” (or whatever) will say, “No! Undoubtedly no!”

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  53. @Hunsdon
    Bzzt! America does not claim Afghanistan as its sovereign territory, which is an elementary distinction.

    America does not claim Afghanistan as its sovereign territory, which is an elementary distinction.

    So Arizona, New Mexico, and the Falkland Islands are not democratic? Nor Sakhalin Island? Or Gibraltar? Or any country containing a piece of Kurdistan?

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  54. @anonymous

    What about identification with European thought (e.g. thinking in the traditions of Dante, Milton, Chateaubriand, Descartes, Spinoza rather than that of Mahomet or Confucius)?

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  55. @TheBoom
    Confused. Jews warn whites that it is evil to have children because of the environment (unless you are a Somali immigrant then 10 kids is OK). But Jews are starting to have a lot of kids. Is it anti-Semitic of me to wonder why Jews have such different approaches to fertility rates depending on Jew or Goy?

    Are you really confused? My high school football team sometimes faked a handoff to the fullback running up the center, and then our QB would step back and throw to a wide receiver crossing into the middle ten yards up. Sometimes opposing teams would use the same play. We liked it when we did it. We didn’t like when they did it.

    The goal is to win territory so that you win resources so that you can grow and win territory and win resources and on and on. The fact that you have to call yourself anti-Semitic shows who’s winning the psychological war. An “anti-European”, “anti-Aryan”, what have you, is called, on the other side, simply a Jew.

    I want my enemies to have less children than I do. So do Jews. That makes it easier to take the territory for their own expanding population. And make no mistake, Kwa is the safety valve.

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  56. In my view, the Palestinians have the same position in Israel as the Amish do in Pennsylvania. They have 100% of individual civil rights. They do not have any right to establish their own polity.

    Uh? Palestinians are free to drive on any public road, anywhere in Israel? Ply the seas? Vote in Israeli elections? They aren’t routinely discriminated against?

    There ==already is== an Palestinian Arabic-speaking country inside of Historic Palestine….. its current name is The Kingdom of Jordan

    There ==already are== tons of safe countries for Jews, where they can speak their native tongues, or any other (See any place Whites live in numbers). Jews already had that oblast in east Asia. .

    Just ask if Ashkenazi Jews are European.

    The Arabist– Arab or otherwise– will say, “Yes! Undoubtedly yes!” The “white nationalist” (or whatever) will say, “No! Undoubtedly no!”

    The Jew will say, “If I feel like it.” Given real whites don’t get to opt out, I’d say the answer is “no,” culturally and politically speaking.

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    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Vote in Israeli elections?

    Arabs vote in Israeli elections. But there is an unwritten rule among Jewish parties that they will never form a majority government using an Arab party. So, Arabs are second class citizens politically in Israel, but there are worse things to be than that.

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  57. @Svigor

    In my view, the Palestinians have the same position in Israel as the Amish do in Pennsylvania. They have 100% of individual civil rights. They do not have any right to establish their own polity.
     
    Uh? Palestinians are free to drive on any public road, anywhere in Israel? Ply the seas? Vote in Israeli elections? They aren't routinely discriminated against?

    There ==already is== an Palestinian Arabic-speaking country inside of Historic Palestine….. its current name is The Kingdom of Jordan
     
    There ==already are== tons of safe countries for Jews, where they can speak their native tongues, or any other (See any place Whites live in numbers). Jews already had that oblast in east Asia. .

    Just ask if Ashkenazi Jews are European.

    The Arabist– Arab or otherwise– will say, “Yes! Undoubtedly yes!” The “white nationalist” (or whatever) will say, “No! Undoubtedly no!”
     
    The Jew will say, "If I feel like it." Given real whites don't get to opt out, I'd say the answer is "no," culturally and politically speaking.

    Vote in Israeli elections?

    Arabs vote in Israeli elections. But there is an unwritten rule among Jewish parties that they will never form a majority government using an Arab party. So, Arabs are second class citizens politically in Israel, but there are worse things to be than that.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Dmitry

    Vote in Israeli elections?

    Arabs vote in Israeli elections. But there is an unwritten rule among Jewish parties that they will never form a majority government using an Arab party. So, Arabs are second class citizens politically in Israel, but there are worse things to be than that.

     

    They don't seem to touch the Arabs really, except perhaps by some level of neglect. There is a lack of coherent policy and firmness. The Arabs act like they have a lawless dominion in any area (even mixed towns) where any Arabs are living. You instantly feel the whole area has a totally Arab dominated atmosphere, with no impact from the rest of the society. And in areas where there is a conscious policy - like how the whole country even uses Arabic writing everywhere - there is a level of multiculturalism concession you could not imagine in the United States or many places in Russia. A lot of the acting up from the Arab minority is a result of Israeli leniency and weakness towards them.
    , @Anonymous
    No worse than western European political classes combining both 'left' and 'right' factions in order to freeze nationalists out of power.
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  58. @George
    If you define Israel biblically, extending from the Nile to the Euphrates you can probably fit a billion people there comfortably. Oh, and the stuff about the stripes on the Israeli flag representing the Nile and the Euphrates, bunk'um.

    the 2 blue stripes are copies of their medieval prayer shawls. Many medieval paintings of Mary and Joseph and Old Testament characters have a 2 blue stripe prayer shawl hanging in the background.

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  59. @stillCARealist
    Is this why there are so many Israelis selling junk in the malls? They're crowding their own country so the extras come here and crowd ours.

    They use the kiosk business for HI B visa fraud. They claim that the sales people have such rare and unusual skills they can’t find Americans to sell cheap sunglasses and hair bows.

    Proud to say I got one of those kiosk guys deported. He used the sales clerk visas to bring in prostitutes and set them up in brothels. I contacted the state department sex trafficking unit first. Then I kept reporting him to the FBI and the police and sheriffs in every city he went.

    It took about 2 years but they finally got rid of him. The girls weren’t israelis they were E Europeans and former soviets. The state department got right on it and pursued him vigorously. The state department people I worked with were all women by the way.

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  60. @Anonymous
    I understand that New York and other cities are full of ambitious young Israelis out to make their fortunes. This trend will only increase in future. It's a wonderful transformation of Israel's circumstances that it now has a surplus of people and will in future become a source rather than destination of migration

    Supposedly about a fifth of the Jewish population of Israel lives in the united states. Maybe some of them are draft dodgers. Or maybe it’s a symptom that the socialist scientific technological capitalist paradise isn’t working out as well as it claims despite billions in American aid every year.

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    • Replies: @Escher
    If you had to work with a large group of Israelis, you'd want to leave too (or start downing large quantities of Lithium)
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  61. @neutral

    Israel is the only advanced economy and Western democracy
     
    Israel is neither Western nor a democracy. It clearly is not Western, if so then one can declare Lebanon Western as well. As for democracy, using the leftist definition of democracy (i.e. liberal), it is not that. Neither is it a democracy in terms of universal suffrage, not everyone is allowed to vote in the lands it has occupied.

    It clearly is not Western, if so then one can declare Lebanon Western as well.

    Western or Eastern (or even Soviet) Israel, depends entirely in which street you end up in.

    I was in Israel – far from my first time – last week.

    The European places in Israel feel like Europe (atmospherically). The Arab parts feel like the Arab world. The Mizrahi parts feel somewhere inbetween the two. And the Russian-speaking places feel like the 1980s Soviet union.

    These worlds can be suddenly crossed and experienced within the matter of minutes.

    You can experience this just in a few kilometers in Tel Aviv. If you walk down Rothschild Boulevard in Tel Aviv, you are in some kind of European utopia. It feels more like Western Europe, than anywhere in America, due to the feeling of personal safety, everyone on bicycles and lazing in cafes.

    If you walk in some upper class parts of Northern Tel Aviv, there are Viennese coffee cafes all over the place, selling Austrian style cakes. And you feel like you are in some 1920s Austria.

    On other hand, if you walk a few kilometers South, in Jaffa – you are directly inside an Arab world, as Middle Eastern as in Cairo or Damascus. Old men all over the street smoking hookah and trying to sell to you pale travellers their Arab souvenirs.

    This is not even to mention the bizarre contrasts of religions in Jerusalem.

    But driving into the real heartlands of Israel (and not just the tourist areas), you experience even more contrasts, such as areas where Soviet culture has impregnated – where in a certain day of year you can imagine the Soviet Union had successfully conquered and subjugated the Israelis.

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  62. @Tyrion 2
    Israel is Western enough for the progressive left to hate it and non-Western enough for the Nazi right to also hate it. It is vaguely Western, and quite a lot else. Russia flits in and out of the same category.

    On the other hand, it is clearly a democracy. Afghans don't vote in US elections nor do any other number of peoples who reside in countries that are patrolled by US soldiers. Nor is the contemporary US an exception in this regard. It is very much the norm.

    Israel is Western enough for the progressive left to hate it and non-Western enough for the Nazi right to also hate it. It is vaguely Western, and quite a lot else. Russia flits in and out of the same category.

    On the other hand, it is clearly a democracy. Afghans don’t vote in US elections nor do any other number of peoples who reside in countries that are patrolled by US soldiers. Nor is the contemporary US an exception in this regard. It is very much the norm.

    Some parts are more Western than you can imagine (maybe more Western than the West), and other parts are more Middle Eastern than you can imagine (probably making Cairo seem developed by comparison) – and there are also other levels of contrast which don’t fit on that spectrum. The easy categorization is not possible for a country which has so many contrasts within itself from area to area.

    Really it is exactly as it should be expected, or slightly more so. The areas where Europeans settled, took on a terribly, exaggerated European atmosphere. The areas where Middle Easterners settled, are as Middle Eastern as any part of the Middle East. And the areas (usually far off the tourist track) where post-Soviet immigration landed, have some kind of atmosphere like you were in the 1980s Soviet Union.

    But somehow the country fits together in a relatively functional way.

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    • Replies: @BaruchKogan
    I have a foot in all these worlds-I live in a settlement which is mixed Ashkenazi/Sefaradi/Mizrahi/Yemenite (most families are mixed,) work in tech in Tel Aviv (though I used to work in blue collar jobs) and train in a boxing gym where everyone is a Russian from Bat Yam or Petah Tikva. I used to teach Haredi students, too.

    A lot of the differences are surface-deep. Many people intermarry between different Jewish communities. Everyone serves in the military, studies and works together. Everyone speaks the same language.

    The places where I see the most synthesis are the universities, the settlements and the religious communities (Religious Nationalist and Haredi.)

    It's important to remember that in practice, there has not been a unified Jewish people per se for 2000 years-just Jewish communities. That's changing very quickly, and not in the way that the secular Zionist founders planned.
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  63. @Steve Sailer
    Vote in Israeli elections?

    Arabs vote in Israeli elections. But there is an unwritten rule among Jewish parties that they will never form a majority government using an Arab party. So, Arabs are second class citizens politically in Israel, but there are worse things to be than that.

    Vote in Israeli elections?

    Arabs vote in Israeli elections. But there is an unwritten rule among Jewish parties that they will never form a majority government using an Arab party. So, Arabs are second class citizens politically in Israel, but there are worse things to be than that.

    They don’t seem to touch the Arabs really, except perhaps by some level of neglect. There is a lack of coherent policy and firmness. The Arabs act like they have a lawless dominion in any area (even mixed towns) where any Arabs are living. You instantly feel the whole area has a totally Arab dominated atmosphere, with no impact from the rest of the society. And in areas where there is a conscious policy – like how the whole country even uses Arabic writing everywhere – there is a level of multiculturalism concession you could not imagine in the United States or many places in Russia. A lot of the acting up from the Arab minority is a result of Israeli leniency and weakness towards them.

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  64. Scarlett Johansson, who took to endorsing SodaStream, manufactured in the West Bank.

    I think the fact that she is Jewish on her mother’s side is more relevant than one of the products she endorses.

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  65. @Alden
    Supposedly about a fifth of the Jewish population of Israel lives in the united states. Maybe some of them are draft dodgers. Or maybe it’s a symptom that the socialist scientific technological capitalist paradise isn’t working out as well as it claims despite billions in American aid every year.

    If you had to work with a large group of Israelis, you’d want to leave too (or start downing large quantities of Lithium)

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  66. @anonymouslee
    Scarlett Johansson is pretty Jewish. Just one who got her career started playing the shiksa goddess (Woody Allen's Match Point was her peak, I guess). Not only is she half Jewish but she grew up in a very...New York if not religious milieu.

    Her high school boyfriend recently broke up with Lena Dunham:
    https://peopledotcom.files.wordpress.com/2018/01/lena-dunham-jack-antonoff.jpg

    definitely an interesting life history to date Scarlett Johansson in high school and THEN get famous so you can date Lena Dunham.

    Wow, his dating fortunes really plummeted.
    OTOH, Dunham seems to have cleaned up a bit.

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  67. @Karl
    29 Seamus Padrig > Does that make the Palestinians Judeans and Samaritans?

    In my view, the Palestinians have the same position in Israel as the Amish do in Pennsylvania. They have 100% of individual civil rights. They do not have any right to establish their own polity.

    There ==already is== an Palestinian Arabic-speaking country inside of Historic Palestine..... its current name is The Kingdom of Jordan

    If the Hashemite family ever decides to give us an actual big headache about who has the right to control the Temple Mount, we will park that family right next to the final Czar's family

    so Jews are still proud of having killed the Russian royal family and the horrors you inflicted in Russia and Central Europe?

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  68. @Jason Liu
    How are they doing it, though? I mean the secular ones. Patriotism in other countries hasn't convinced women to have more children.

    If high native birthrates can be achieved in developed countries around the world, it would be like a fist straight into the face of multiculturalist ideology.

    Guess you don’t know it takes 2 to make a baby.

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  69. @Steve Sailer
    Vote in Israeli elections?

    Arabs vote in Israeli elections. But there is an unwritten rule among Jewish parties that they will never form a majority government using an Arab party. So, Arabs are second class citizens politically in Israel, but there are worse things to be than that.

    No worse than western European political classes combining both ‘left’ and ‘right’ factions in order to freeze nationalists out of power.

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  70. @Anonymous
    If Christianity is the criterion for "Western", then that would mean Israel isn't "Western".

    If "Western" means anything, it means indigenous European. That excludes Lebanon for geographic, ethnic, and cultural reasons, regardless of religion.

    My reason for calling 1960 Lebanon “western” was not that it was a mostly (by then about 50%) Christian country. Lebanon was western (ok, quasi-western) because it looked to Europe for its model in many things. It is true, however, that Lebanon’s Christians were by and large the most westernized sector.

    Israel is western in the same way, just substitute “Jews” for “Christians”. Because Israel’s Muslims aren’t so western.

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    • Replies: @Clyde
    delete
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  71. @Clyde
    I believe the birthrate for non-Orthodox Israeli Jews is higher than any European birthrate. At least 50% higher? In Israel the secular and non-Orthodox are being influenced by the high Orthodox birthrates? Just might be.

    For fun Steve might check out the Bukharian Jews who immigrate to NYC. They must be having a birth explosion because they are notorious for knocking down modest houses in Queens and constructing as much of a mega-mansion as possible for the extended family. Their hallmark is to pave over the front lawn for family parking spaces. Chinese do the same and they are taking over Queens. There are now five Chinatowns in NYC and they are all expanding. The old one was in Manhattan. Now you have the others too in Brooklyn and Queens.
    I know all this via >> http://queenscrap.blogspot.com/ that has been around 10+ years

    >In Israel the secular and non-Orthodox are being influenced by the high Orthodox birthrates?

    Yes. In Israel, every religious person has secular family members (and vice versa.) When a secular Jewish woman visits her religious family members and sees their 5-10 kids, she naturally wants the same for herself. And on these matters, women ultimately decide.

    By contrast, most secular Americans (Jewish ones, too) do not have any (traditionally) religious family members, and are completely ignorant of that lifestyle, so have nothing to emulate or envy.

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    • Replies: @Clyde
    A rising tide lifts all boats. The rising tide birthrates of the Israeli Orthodox womb lifts all other Israeli wombs. Crude but true according to you, and I believe it. A moral and superior form of female one upsmanship. Compare this to female one upsmanship in America, Canada, Australia and Europe where expensive fashion, jewelry and silicone enhancements are the way this one upsmanship is done. Long expensive beauty spa days, you can brag about how much you (or your husband – boyfriend spent) and so on etc etc.
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  72. @Lot
    Judea and Samaria is the Israeli term for the West Bank, which was part of Israel in ancient times, as well as immediately before the Roman conquest of Israel.

    Samaritans still exist in Israel but are quickly assimilating through Jewish intermarriage.

    Right. Judea and Samaria (and Binyamin, where I live) is the historical term for the area. “West Bank” is geographically nonsense, made up quite recently.

    You’ve got Samaritans confused with Karaites here. Jews can’t marry Samaritans, and most Samaritans have converted to Islam and been assimilated by the Arabs (half of Shechem is made up of their descendants.)

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  73. @istevefan

    However, in the long run I see Iranians and Shiites more generally as possible to live with.
     
    Most conservatives I talk to do not understand that Shiites are not as dangerous to us as the Sunni. Guys like Wictor, about whom Dave P. posted, have taken the side of the Sunnis because the Sunnis are now cooperating with Israel because of their hatred of Shiites and Persians.

    I can understand Israel's immediate concern with Iran and anyone in the middle east who is an Iranian ally. But from a Western Civ. point of view, it is not the Shia who are invading our countries. It is not the Shia who are committing acts of terror on our soil. The Sunnis have a belief that colonizing the non-muslim world is fulfilling some sort of religious prophecy.

    Many conservatives seem to have forgotten that the Saudis are the ones who told Germany, "hey we won't take any migrants, but we will pay for the construction of new mosques in Germany." "You cool with that?"

    Saudis were also the guys who did 9-11, but as Wictor often says, that was 3 kings ago and today's Saudi Arabia is A-OK because they just gave permission for women to drive cars!

    Just like they stood by and watched illegal labor cross the border to do the jobs Americans would not, conservatives are showing a remarkable lack of foresight.

    I also like how the various non-Iranian Shiite sects have incorporated elements of Christian, Jewish and even Neo-Platonic religion. But the Sunnis seem to be led by nothing but dirty-bearded idiots who spent years memorizing the Koran and valorize the most barbaric aspects of ancient Arab culture.

    Supposedly Assad’s Alewite sect was half-way Christian 100 years ago.

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  74. @Seamus Padraig

    Judea and Samaria is the Israeli term for the West Bank ...
     
    Does that make the Palestinians Judeans and Samaritans? ;-)

    No, they are Arabs, and would find Saudi Arabia a weaker but richer place to colonize if they got their crqp together.

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  75. @Dmitry

    Israel is Western enough for the progressive left to hate it and non-Western enough for the Nazi right to also hate it. It is vaguely Western, and quite a lot else. Russia flits in and out of the same category.

    On the other hand, it is clearly a democracy. Afghans don’t vote in US elections nor do any other number of peoples who reside in countries that are patrolled by US soldiers. Nor is the contemporary US an exception in this regard. It is very much the norm.
     

    Some parts are more Western than you can imagine (maybe more Western than the West), and other parts are more Middle Eastern than you can imagine (probably making Cairo seem developed by comparison) - and there are also other levels of contrast which don't fit on that spectrum. The easy categorization is not possible for a country which has so many contrasts within itself from area to area.

    Really it is exactly as it should be expected, or slightly more so. The areas where Europeans settled, took on a terribly, exaggerated European atmosphere. The areas where Middle Easterners settled, are as Middle Eastern as any part of the Middle East. And the areas (usually far off the tourist track) where post-Soviet immigration landed, have some kind of atmosphere like you were in the 1980s Soviet Union.

    But somehow the country fits together in a relatively functional way.

    I have a foot in all these worlds-I live in a settlement which is mixed Ashkenazi/Sefaradi/Mizrahi/Yemenite (most families are mixed,) work in tech in Tel Aviv (though I used to work in blue collar jobs) and train in a boxing gym where everyone is a Russian from Bat Yam or Petah Tikva. I used to teach Haredi students, too.

    A lot of the differences are surface-deep. Many people intermarry between different Jewish communities. Everyone serves in the military, studies and works together. Everyone speaks the same language.

    The places where I see the most synthesis are the universities, the settlements and the religious communities (Religious Nationalist and Haredi.)

    It’s important to remember that in practice, there has not been a unified Jewish people per se for 2000 years-just Jewish communities. That’s changing very quickly, and not in the way that the secular Zionist founders planned.

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    • Replies: @Dmitry

    A lot of the differences are surface-deep. Many people intermarry between different Jewish communities. Everyone serves in the military, studies and works together. Everyone speaks the same language.

    The places where I see the most synthesis are the universities,

     

    The young generation are assimilating very rapidly - the children of Russian-speakers are often suffering language attribution (if their parents don't hire a tutor - a lot of them don't learn the grammar quite right, even though they have the perfect accent). It seems a little sad in that dimension, and it is the fault of the schools for not putting Russian on the curriculum.
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  76. @International Jew
    My reason for calling 1960 Lebanon "western" was not that it was a mostly (by then about 50%) Christian country. Lebanon was western (ok, quasi-western) because it looked to Europe for its model in many things. It is true, however, that Lebanon's Christians were by and large the most westernized sector.

    Israel is western in the same way, just substitute "Jews" for "Christians". Because Israel's Muslims aren't so western.

    delete

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  77. @BaruchKogan
    >In Israel the secular and non-Orthodox are being influenced by the high Orthodox birthrates?

    Yes. In Israel, every religious person has secular family members (and vice versa.) When a secular Jewish woman visits her religious family members and sees their 5-10 kids, she naturally wants the same for herself. And on these matters, women ultimately decide.

    By contrast, most secular Americans (Jewish ones, too) do not have any (traditionally) religious family members, and are completely ignorant of that lifestyle, so have nothing to emulate or envy.

    A rising tide lifts all boats. The rising tide birthrates of the Israeli Orthodox womb lifts all other Israeli wombs. Crude but true according to you, and I believe it. A moral and superior form of female one upsmanship. Compare this to female one upsmanship in America, Canada, Australia and Europe where expensive fashion, jewelry and silicone enhancements are the way this one upsmanship is done. Long expensive beauty spa days, you can brag about how much you (or your husband – boyfriend spent) and so on etc etc.

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  78. Compare this to female one upsmanship in America, Canada, Australia and Europe where expensive fashion, jewelry and silicone enhancements are the way this one upsmanship is done. Long expensive beauty spa days, you can brag about how much you (or your husband – boyfriend spent) and so on etc etc.

    It’s the same in Israel as well (aside from the breast implants – I don’t think beauty surgery is common there at all).

    The secular birth-rate is anomalous, as it doesn’t fit in with the life-style that people lead. The secular women have a high workforce participation, many of the company directors there are women, and the women widely believe in feminism ideals and are addicts of Western popular culture.

    The secular women in Israel are more feminist and similar to American women, than women are in Russia.

    In addition, you have a government which does not provide adequate child-support (unlike in Russia), and you have most people in small three-bedroom apartments that made extra children very inconvenient (unlike in America).

    It doesn’t fit together in a logical way. But I would attribute the high birthrates to an unconscious fear of being outnumbered between the different groups. The country is divided into lot of different tribes, and the secular can sometimes speak about the religious, as fearfully as about the Arabs.

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    • Replies: @Karl
    78 Dmitry > I don’t think beauty surgery is common there at all


    it's cheaper in Thailand, the Thai surgeons have more experience, and Israelis feel completely at home in Thailand. Plus, going abroad to the tropics for several weeks, there's less of a "shock factor" and "gossip factor" when you come back looking.... refreshed, rejuvenated.

    there ==is== a cadre of plastic surgeons in TelAviv/Haifa/Jerusalem. Unlike North America, there isn't a big enough market for these guys to become (e.g) the world's leading expert on fixing up aging eyebrows

    the bigger Israeli hospitals have become experts at keeping Gulf patients' presence, out of the headlines.

    Why not - they always pay full-sticker-price.... in cash.
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  79. @BaruchKogan
    I have a foot in all these worlds-I live in a settlement which is mixed Ashkenazi/Sefaradi/Mizrahi/Yemenite (most families are mixed,) work in tech in Tel Aviv (though I used to work in blue collar jobs) and train in a boxing gym where everyone is a Russian from Bat Yam or Petah Tikva. I used to teach Haredi students, too.

    A lot of the differences are surface-deep. Many people intermarry between different Jewish communities. Everyone serves in the military, studies and works together. Everyone speaks the same language.

    The places where I see the most synthesis are the universities, the settlements and the religious communities (Religious Nationalist and Haredi.)

    It's important to remember that in practice, there has not been a unified Jewish people per se for 2000 years-just Jewish communities. That's changing very quickly, and not in the way that the secular Zionist founders planned.

    A lot of the differences are surface-deep. Many people intermarry between different Jewish communities. Everyone serves in the military, studies and works together. Everyone speaks the same language.

    The places where I see the most synthesis are the universities,

    The young generation are assimilating very rapidly – the children of Russian-speakers are often suffering language attribution (if their parents don’t hire a tutor – a lot of them don’t learn the grammar quite right, even though they have the perfect accent). It seems a little sad in that dimension, and it is the fault of the schools for not putting Russian on the curriculum.

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  80. Arabs vote in Israeli elections. But there is an unwritten rule among Jewish parties that they will never form a majority government using an Arab party. So, Arabs are second class citizens politically in Israel, but there are worse things to be than that.

    I know, but I was asking about the Palestinians. I was under the impression that a lot of them aren’t citizens of Israel and don’t get to vote.

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  81. @Dmitry

    Compare this to female one upsmanship in America, Canada, Australia and Europe where expensive fashion, jewelry and silicone enhancements are the way this one upsmanship is done. Long expensive beauty spa days, you can brag about how much you (or your husband – boyfriend spent) and so on etc etc.

     

    It's the same in Israel as well (aside from the breast implants - I don't think beauty surgery is common there at all).

    The secular birth-rate is anomalous, as it doesn't fit in with the life-style that people lead. The secular women have a high workforce participation, many of the company directors there are women, and the women widely believe in feminism ideals and are addicts of Western popular culture.

    The secular women in Israel are more feminist and similar to American women, than women are in Russia.

    In addition, you have a government which does not provide adequate child-support (unlike in Russia), and you have most people in small three-bedroom apartments that made extra children very inconvenient (unlike in America).

    It doesn't fit together in a logical way. But I would attribute the high birthrates to an unconscious fear of being outnumbered between the different groups. The country is divided into lot of different tribes, and the secular can sometimes speak about the religious, as fearfully as about the Arabs.

    78 Dmitry > I don’t think beauty surgery is common there at all

    it’s cheaper in Thailand, the Thai surgeons have more experience, and Israelis feel completely at home in Thailand. Plus, going abroad to the tropics for several weeks, there’s less of a “shock factor” and “gossip factor” when you come back looking…. refreshed, rejuvenated.

    there ==is== a cadre of plastic surgeons in TelAviv/Haifa/Jerusalem. Unlike North America, there isn’t a big enough market for these guys to become (e.g) the world’s leading expert on fixing up aging eyebrows

    the bigger Israeli hospitals have become experts at keeping Gulf patients’ presence, out of the headlines.

    Why not – they always pay full-sticker-price…. in cash.

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  82. The Samaritans of the bible were descendants of the original population who were not carried away into captivity and remained on their ancestral lands. The jews in Babylon and Persia picked up a swag of crazy religious ideas from the people there. When they were repatriated to Israel by Darius (or whoever), they promptly began persecuting the people who had been living there uninterrupted and probably were more closely related to Abraham than any of the returning exiles.

    The parallels with modern-day palestinians are striking. Can anyone doubt, if Jesus were preaching today, which hated local ethnic group he’d be using in his parable? No wonder they had him crucified.

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