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Much of the elite rage at the popular movie Joker is owing to it showing, in its depiction of life in a comic book New York City in 1981, Youths of Color committing a violent crime. That’s all just a stereotype!

Actually … Criminologist Peter Moskos writes:

In my book research am often told charming anecdotes about the “good old days” of NYC, before the NYPD got their act together. For instance, I did not know about this gem from 1985:

From the New York Times:

ROVING GANGS ROB CHARITY WALKERS
By Robert D. McFadden
April 29, 1985

A festive fund-raising walkathon through Manhattan for the March of Dimes ended in turmoil yesterday as packs of roving youths attacked and harassed scores of marchers in and around Central Park, snatching neck chains, purses and other property.

Seven people were hurt, 17 youths were arrested and 52 robberies and larcenies were reported, 41 of them in the park between 2 and 4:30 P.M. as 26,000 marchers ended an 18-mile hike that raised hundreds of thousands of dollars for the Greater New York March of Dimes.

Much of the violence occurred near the park’s band shell just below the 72d Street transverse, where scores of arriving marchers fell prey to youths who swarmed upon them. Harried police officers chased and caught some suspects but were overwhelmed by the number of youths and incidents.

”Two 19-year-old girls were walking along when a herd of about 100 youths – one of the roving bands – came running by,” said Lieut. James Keneally of the Central Park Precinct. ”They got swept up. Their chains were gone, their clothes were ripped. They looked like they had been through a tornado.”

He said that on a usual weekend night the precinct receives only one or two reports of robberies.

Tom Grommell, a 29-year-old insurance broker from Brooklyn who was one of the marchers, said he and others were made to run a virtual gantlet of young thugs, who inspected each passer-by.

”As we approached the band shell,” he said, ”we saw 35 or 40 kids – they were young, 12 to 16 years old – and they were scanning people, looking for chains and other things.

”The gentleman behind me had one of these hand-held puppets and was wearing a gold chain,” he added. ”Some of them grabbed the chain. Others went after the puppet. This guy tried to resist and they beat him until they got his chain.”

‘A Rob-athon’

A civilian police employee who took part in the march and witnessed some of the robberies told a detective friend that she had been horrified.

”She said it just turned out to be a rob-athon,” said Det. Evans Andre of the Midtown North Precinct.”It was terribly unfortunate because it had been a very productive and pleasant day,” said Nancy L. Isenberger, a spokesman for the March of Dimes Birth Defects Foundation.

She said that to her knowledge none of the marchers were responsible for the robberies. The police, too, said they appeared to be the work of others. Twelve of the 17 youths were arrested in the park, and of them, 11 were from Brooklyn and 1 was from the Bronx, a precinct officer said.

The day’s events recalled the violence and anarchy that followed a Diana Ross concert in Central Park on July 23, 1983, when 80 people were arrested and 171 people filed complaints of beatings, robberies and other attacks that occurred in Columbus Circle and the Times Square area and left 41 people injured, 16 of whom required hospital treatment.

Personally, I spent about 25-30 days in New York City in 1979-1986 and never ran into any muggers.

But the rules given to me by New Yorkers of my age were amazingly restrictive geographically by current standards — basically, stick to the central spine of Manhattan (e.g., Fifth Avenue and Broadway). For example, in the Greenwich Village area, the west side of Second Avenue was okay, but don’t cross Second Avenue! There were legendary Alphabet Avenues on the Lower East Side that few people I talked to had ever walked. There be dragons…

We went once to Brooklyn, but only to the River Cafe right under the Brooklyn Bridge.

It sounds like Moskos might be writing a book about how crime was brought so far down in NYC, which is an important topic.

 
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  1. • Replies: @Malcolm X-Lax
    If only they had made the pimp white, it would have been perfect.
    , @Anonymous
    The Simpsons hasn’t had any gag as funny as the simple “The Godfather’s Parts, II” in like 15 years.

    Today they’d probably go to New York and sing a ballad with Alexandria Cortez at a drag show. Which is now considered upscale and not a perverse niche.
  2. I moved to NYC in the late ‘70s. In my first five years there, I was pickpocketed twice, mugged twice and physically attacked once. Now, admittedly, I was a smalltown rube spending a lot of late-night time in rough neighborhoods where there were punk rock clubs and hip parties, but still. It was an era when you pretty much had to know the city block by block in order to know where’d you be safe and where you’d be likely to get in trouble. These days nearly all of Manhattan is amazingly safe.

    Oh, and whenever I tried reporting these crimes to the cops, they refused not just to do anything about them but to even record them. So I’m guessing that the official crime stats from that era wildly understate the actual crime rates.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    I moved to NYC in the late ‘70s. In my first five years there, I was pickpocketed twice, mugged twice and physically attacked once.
     
    One night passing through a busy corner of Times Square in that era, I felt a soft finger near one of my dorsal pockets. I turned quickly, and saw a long, tall pimp in a three-piece suit grin at me.

    I always kept cash in my front pocket. Maybe my Coast Guard ID card was back there. Don't know what a pimp would do with that, but I'm not absolutely sure it was his finger.
    , @Richard P
    I'll second that Manhattan is amazingly safe -- which makes it incredibly boring, IMO. I lived in NYC for about three years and left a year after the crash in late 2008. I would often go for long runs late at night during the summer months. These runs would average no less than an hour and sometimes up to five hours -- especially while training for ultramarathons. I ran through the worst parts of Brooklyn and along the more dangerous areas of the East River near Columbia and Randall's Island. I was never bothered once -- even during my runs that went into the early morning hours during hot, summer nights in August. The only act of serious violence that I ever witnessed during one of these adventures was while running with a female romantic partner along New York Avenue in Brooklyn. We witnessed a black thug plummeting himself onto the owner of a smaller bodega around midnight. Nonetheless, we decided not to intervene and continued on our way and.

    Personally, I thrive in dangerous situations as I have a higher expectation of what life should be. I get bored easily and need extreme stimulation to feel alive. Moreover, I probably would have appreciated the chaos and grittiness of NYC during the 70's and 80's rather than the yuppified, multiracial and limousine liberal enclave that the city has since become.
    , @Days of Broken Arrows
    Around the time you were arriving in NYC, I was a kid who grew up there who already knew the lay of the land, as it were. I used to hear my uncles warn each other to "Put your wallet in your FRONT pocket when you're out walking around." The other big thing was "Count your change," because in the age before computerized registers, shop clerks would regularly short people.

    I also have a memory of my grandmother taking me by subway to the Lower East Side to pick up something she needed, and me getting catcalled by hookers. "Hey, baby!" She was beyond furious. I found it pretty amusing. This happened in broad daylight when we got off the train. I was 11.
  3. The 80s (and early 90s) in NYC had to be lived to be believed. No one I tell about it believes it any more. Even then and there, you couldn’t tell GoodWhites what was going on. They’d deny their own muggings if they could. “It’s the fear of crime that’s the real problem,” went the refrain. BS! It was the crime. And yeah, as PR says above, we quickly learned not to report crime to the cops. Some were sympathetic but many just treated you as another form of criminal, making work for them.

    • Replies: @Forbes
    A certain context is missing from the article that New Yorkers of that time ('80s) would've known. Central Park was filled with all sorts of miscreants, roving bands of youths, etc., all the time on weekends, and with decent weather. Safety was in numbers, you wouldn't go alone.

    "He said that on a usual weekend night the [Central Park] precinct receives only one or two reports of robberies."
     
    You didn't venture into the Park after dark. To this day, the Park is officially closed from 1 AM to 6 AM.

    During the day, it was an open drug market (post-Serpico Knapp Commission regs prohibited uniformed officers from making drug arrests, undercover drug squad officers has to be summoned), and roving vendors with grocery shopping carts sold all kinds of booze--mixed drinks, wine, beer.

    In other words, Central Park was a free-for-all--a party.
    , @JMcG
    I went to Times Square to see the Ball drop on New Years Eve, 1984. It was jammed. I counted how many empty wallets I stepped on or kicked in the throng and stopped after I reached 16. I didn’t have the patience to keep counting.
    , @Pericles
    I recall reading during that time tough liberal comments along the lines of "always keep a $50 bill in your wallet so you won't get shot when you get mugged". In fact, that sort of comment turned up fairly frequently and it always seemed pretty crazy to me.
    , @Bard of Bumperstickers
    Tangentially related:
    https://www.zerohedge.com/s3/files/inline-images/sub-mrz100419-color-1-7mb_orig.jpg?itok=e4KJqar5
    (From https://www.zerohedge.com/political/memoriam-reality)
    , @SFG
    I grew up there, left around the turn of the millennium (career purposes). I registered to vote for the first time to reelect Rudy Giuliani (before that I was too young). I remember not being able to go out too late, my mom getting mugged 2 blocks from where I lived, avoiding various landmarks such as Times Square and so on.

    I remember the city getting safer in the 90s thanks to the mean old mayor who made the trains run on time. It's the reason I never bought the blank slate (particularly on race) and am way more sympathetic to cops than I should be, as well as never really being able to be a liberal on law and order issues. As I get older and find myself drifting right, it feels less like losing my illusions and more like coming home.

    But I was young and cowardly, so I don't have any fun stories about doing drugs in the East Village with strippers or seeing punk bands perform. There was a vague notion that there were things going on in the Village that were dangerous and edgy, but I wouldn't have dared go anywhere near them--I figured I'd wind up getting knifed or raped in the back room of some bar. It was like some kind of Lovecraftian area where even knowing too much risks your sanity.

    I suspect part of the attraction to many here is that New York in the 80s was involved with punk, which was the last avant-garde movement to be predominantly white. After that, there's hip-hop (though that started at the same time, it didn't become culturally dominant until the mid-90s).
  4. You know, it’s unfortunate that no one who lived in the seedier and more criminally parts of New York in that timeframe has ever, you know, talked much about it. Much less written a book or anything like that. Certainly not recently.

    • Replies: @craig nelsen
    I moved to Avenue A in 1980 and it is true about Second Ave. Cabs frequently refused to take you past it, especially at night. You had to get out and walk the rest of the way in. I tended bar and, since closing time for (legal) bars was 4 a.m., the streets were usually dead by the time I got home with $20 in my wallet and $100 in my sock. The two long blocks between Ave A and Second Ave felt like twenty and it made sense to have a few drinks at an after hours club before heading home as dawn broke.

    I was mugged two or three times--quickly and efficiently. There wasn't even time for my heart to start racing. Much scarier were the racial attacks. They were a lot more volatile and dangerous. There were always more of them. They were primarily Puerto Rican and, one time, Chinese. I never saw whites attack anyone.

    In one-on-one fights with a POC, you could quickly become outnumbered as passing POC, completely ignorant of the circumstances, rushed to join their co-ethnic. There was only one time that I can remember that a white guy stepped up to keep the fight fair.

    My brother and I once heard a girl screaming and arrived just in time to see a big hulking black guy shuffling down the street in one direction and a Puerto Rican sprinting around the corner in the other direction. A white girl was standing on the sidewalk holding her bleeding face and crying. The black guy and the Puerto Rican had worked as a team to steal her purse. The black guy had walked up and punched her without warning right in the face and the Puerto Rican guy had used the shock to steal her purse and run off down St Marks Place. My brother took off after the Puerto Rican and I took off after the black guy. He ran down Second Ave and turned right on E 3rd St. I rounded after him just in time to see him disappear inside the 8-story soup kitchen / men's shelter in the middle of that block. A few seconds later, his accomplice, coming from the opposite direction, ran up and he, too, darted inside with my brother in pursuit. I could see he was still carrying the white girl's purse, but we weren't going inside that place. There was a cop on the corner, so I ran over to him and explained the situation. The cop, with his badge and gun, was afraid to go in that soup kitchen looking for the criminals. He waited for back up, and then they all still refused to go inside. They had us ride around in a squad car for a while looking for the "perps", even though we all knew they were inside the men's shelter. I felt sorry for that girl and lost a lot of respect for those cops.

    There was a small, tight-knit Ukranian community nearby and the Hell's Angels had their clubhouse one block further east on 3rd St. One night, a Hell's Angel raped a Ukranian girl. The Ukranians formed a posse and trashed that clubhouse and beat the hell out of a bunch of Hell's Angels and found and killed the guy who raped the girl. They didn't put up with shit.

    Ah, good times....
    , @peterike

    You know, it’s unfortunate that no one who lived in the seedier and more criminally parts of New York in that timeframe has ever, you know, talked much about it. Much less written a book or anything like that. Certainly not recently.
     
    The second book in Edward St. Aubyn's "Patrick Melrose" series -- "Bad News" -- does a good job of capturing the New York City hard drug scene in the 80s. The entire series is really quite good, though rather unsettling.
  5. It’s interesting to analyse the vocabulary and style of a 1985 urban crime story . .

    First, the headline to that story is direct, and in the active voice, i.e. ‘Roving Gangs Rob Charity Walkers’.

    We get some fairly ‘triggering’ descriptions, e.g. ‘packs of roving youths attacked and harassed scores of marchers’ and ‘scores of arriving marchers fell prey to youths who swarmed upon them’.

    The reporter also interviewed actual crime victims, who then provide further juicy details, e.g. ‘They looked like they had been through a tornado’ and ‘he and others were made to run a virtual gantlet of young thugs’. (Extra kudos to the erstwhile NYT for using ‘gantlet’ instead of ‘gauntlet’.)

    And yet, the passive tone that dominates today’s crime news is already present in nascent pockets of infection. For example, the miscreants in question are ‘youths’, and the faux-meteorological construction ‘Much of the violence occurred . . .’ sets the pace for decades of euphemism and evasion to follow.

    • Agree: BB753
    • Replies: @Dissident

    It’s interesting to analyse the vocabulary and style of a 1985 urban crime story..
     
    Indeed it is.

    What about this one: (emphasis mine)


    ''Two 19-year-old girls were walking along when a herd of about 100 youths - one of the roving bands - came running by,'' said Lieut. James Keneally of the Central Park Precinct.
     
    When was the last time a police lieutenant could get away with using a word such as herd to describe youths? Hasn't it been some years or even decades now that such usage has been considered racist, dehumanizing language?
    , @anonymous
    This is an insightful comment.

    Most people never stop to think about the subtle, manipulative power of language. And it's far harder to spot in oral speech, usually accompanied by soundtracks and images that enhance the propaganda.

    James Howard Kunstler has urged a return to reading and writing good English if we want a more coherent, cohesive society. The Establishment prefers and promotes Babel.
    , @Ian M.
    And yet, even in 1985, no mention of the race of these 'youths', at least not in the passage that Steve excerpted.
    , @International Jew
    It was a transitional style, bridging pre-1965 realism and today's gauzy impressionism.
    , @Jack D
    Youths always reminds me of My Cousin Vinny where Vinny is telling the judge in Alabama about "youts" and the judge doesn't understand what a "yout" is.

    In the parlance of the time, youths were generally understood to be a euphemism for black or Hispanic (in those days Puerto Rican or Dominican) male teenagers. The NYT was already woke enough not to actually identify them as such, but everyone knew what was meant by the term.

    It's notable BTW that all this mayhem happened in broad daylight in the middle of the afternoon.

    Mayor Bloomberg was using the term "wilding" as late as 2010 but the Gray Lady sniffily pronounced the usage to be "somewhat archaic" but did not call him "racist" on it.

    https://schott.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/04/08/wilding/
    , @Oleaginous Outrager
    Today they would have been referred to as "counter-charity walkers", engaging in "protest" over the "money being taken out of their neighborhoods".
    , @Ghost of Bull Moose

    She said that to her knowledge none of the marchers were responsible for the robberies. The police, too, said they appeared to be the work of others.
     
    Yes, I think we can rule out people who volunteer for walkathons.
  6. For example, in the Greenwich Village area, the west side of Second Avenue was okay, but don’t cross Second Avenue! There were legendary Alphabet Avenues on the Lower East Side that few people I talked to had ever walked. There be dragons…

    I visited a friend who lived in NYC in the ’00s, and took him to Benny’s Burritos in Alphabet City, the Lower East side. He spent the entire time on high alert. This was the relatively gentrified Alphabet City post-Guiliani.

    When I first moved to NYC under General Dinkins, Alphabet City was a place you might want to avoid. One night, while hanging in King Tut’s Wah Wah Hut with a babe named Chantal, dressed in a chain mail blouse, I realised my friend had disappeared, so I went went wandering into the homeless city called Thompkins Square Park to find him, where I found him shooting up with one of the local denizens.

    But that was child’s play compared to having a dozen “youths” set upon me while I was jogging around the Central Park Reservoir on the “safe” Upper East Side.

    Those were some dark times in NYC indeed. Things got infinitely better under Guiliani, but all things must pass.

    • Replies: @Another Canadian
    1980s King Tut's Wah Wah Hut brings back memories. Remember that riot at Tompkins Square Park when the cops took their badges off and started pounding on the park denizens? Badges. We don't need no stinkin' badges.

    1980s NYPD was long days in the doughnut shop followed by a few spasms of crazy violence.

    , @peterike

    Those were some dark times in NYC indeed. Things got infinitely better under Guiliani,
     
    And he was thanked for saving the city by the usual suspects by being called Adolph Guiliani, fascist police-state dictator, and various similar things. Of course, the Left likes to pretend this never happened, but yeah, it did. Trump is by far not the first "literal Hitler."

    https://images.uncyclomedia.co/uncyclopedia/en/d/dd/Adolph_giuliani.JPG
    , @DPG

    I visited a friend who lived in NYC in the ’00s, and took him to Benny’s Burritos in Alphabet City, the Lower East side. He spent the entire time on high alert. This was the relatively gentrified Alphabet City post-Guiliani.

    When I first moved to NYC under General Dinkins, Alphabet City was a place you might want to avoid. One night, while hanging in King Tut’s Wah Wah Hut with a babe named Chantal, dressed in a chain mail blouse, I realised my friend had disappeared, so I went went wandering into the homeless city called Thompkins Square Park to find him, where I found him shooting up with one of the local denizens.
     
    Alphabet City is one of the few places below 96th street that isn't fully gentrified, but it's getting there. If you're commuting to midtown from east of Avenue A, it's quite a long walk to a convenient subway line. My current girlfriend lived at 1st Ave and 9th until recently, and we checked out a few cool new restaurants over on B and C. It felt very safe overall. It's only a matter of time before real estate development transforms it in earnest.
    , @ScarletNumber
    Dinkins is peculiar. He was born in Trenton like Scalia and Alito, then went to college and got a degree in math. He moved up the ranks politically and unseated a popular three-term mayor (Ed Koch) in the primary. But it was a real-world example of the Peter Principle. He just couldn't handle being mayor when he was just fine as Manhattan Borough President.

    He also had a unique way of talking, so much so that Howard Stern came up with this commercial on his TV show.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pQxlzezebCM
    , @Alden
    When John Kennedy Jr was about 12 some black kids knocked him off his bike and stole it in Central Park in full view of his secret service men.
  7. “Rob-A-Thon” is going to be the name of my next punk rock band. Thank you Isteve.

    OT, Current Dead Rock Stars:

    Ginger Baker died last week, but no one cares, because he was kind of a jerk, despite the Fela Kuti association, and moving to Lagos.

    Kim Shattuck also died last Thursday. She had the best songwriting skills, along with the best scream in all of punk rock (skip to 0:45 for the music recorded and 16 mm film). “Nena from Pasadena” is awesome:

  8. 17 youths were arrested … roving bands … a virtual gantlet of young thugs … “we saw 35 or 40 kids – they were young, 12 to 16 years old …”

    I see — well, some things haven’t changed, although back then they did have a different common understanding of the word “virtual”.

    Fourth Employee Sues NYC Education Department For Anti-White Racism

    Under Carranza’s administration, O.E.A. leadership has normalized an approach that interrogates “whiteness,” defines the supposed homogeneous values of whites as “supremacist and toxic” and denies safety to Caucasians by mocking them as white and “fragile” if they push back in any way when, according to the law, they clearly should too be protected.

    The result of this has been the creation of an unlawful, unsafe and hostile work environment where name-calling and racialized accusations toward white supervisors are condoned. Furthermore, discrimination and retaliation toward white employees — especially white dissenters like me — is intentional.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    They put Castanza in charge of OEA ?

    Thought he wanted go into architecture...
    , @Forbes

    Under Carranza’s administration, O.E.A. leadership has normalized an approach that interrogates “whiteness,” defines the supposed homogeneous values of whites as “supremacist and toxic”...
     
    Hell, they are teaching this in the curriculum in the schools--as reported by a friend who teaches HS World History, having returned to the NYC DOE after teaching elsewhere for 5 years.
    , @Daniel H
    Good. Stories like this gladden my heart. The worse things get for Good Whites the better things get for the rest of us, and to those who say “What about the innocents....”, I say, God will know his own.
    , @Alden
    So what else is new?
  9. The day’s events recalled the violence and anarchy that followed a Diana Ross concert in Central Park on July 23, 1983, when 80 people were arrested and 171 people filed complaints of beatings, robberies and other attacks that occurred in Columbus Circle

    Diana Ross in full on diva mode as a torrential storm erupts during her 1983 Central Park concert. At 3:25, something is certainly going on with the crowd and at the 5:00 mark, Diana Ross is openly pleading for calm.

    • Replies: @Mr McKenna
    Miss Ross: "It took me a lifetime to get here, I'm not going anywhere!"

    If only there were really and truly a God above, that would have been an awesome time and place for a thunderbolt.
    , @prosa123
    As a way of atoning for the whole fiasco Ross agreed to fund a large playground in the park. Of course it's named after her, which I suppose makes the gesture something less than 100% altruistic, but all in all it was the right thing for her to have done.
    Amusing aside: playgrounds in the parks are an example of NYC's continued ability to get things Not Quite Right. Adults are allowed in playgrounds only when accompanying children, which makes sense and surely is a common rule elsewhere. Except the city doesn't always clearly demarcate the restricted playground zones, and more than a few adults sitting on what they thought were ordinary, open to everyone park benches have gotten in legal trouble.
  10. What are the best films that captured NYC crime?

    1) Death Wish Series?
    2) Fort Apache?
    3) The French Connection?

    The “Bonfire of the Vanities” film was awful (I watched it) so it’s disqualified. But it has some imposition from the book.

    • Replies: @PiltdownMan

    What are the best films that captured NYC crime?
     
    I don't know if The French Connection captured NYC crime particularly accurately, but it certainly captured the look and feel of 1970s New York City exceptionally well, more so than the other movies, which, I (and other friends in the city) recall thinking at the time were really a Hollywoodish outsider take on New York City.
    , @Anonymous

    What are the best films that captured NYC crime?
     
    WOLF (Nicholson)
    BRAVE ONE

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GB03DlQmd4

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q6_zCyPfxyM
    , @MikeatMikedotMike
    The Warriors?
    , @Anonymous

    What are the best films that captured NYC crime?

    1) Death Wish Series?
    2) Fort Apache?
    3) The French Connection?
     
    New York City unlike some other major cities doesn’t have alleys. So in TV shows and movies depicting gritty New York City with dark, dangerous alleys they have only one alley to film the scene in.

    https://gothamist.com/arts-entertainment/this-is-the-most-filmed-in-alley-in-nyc

    This Is The Most Filmed In Alley In NYC

    When is the last time you hooked a left into an alley to cut across to the next street? Or to feed a feral cat? Or to stash a backpack? Or to hide from someone, right there, behind one of those dumpsters, crouched in a picturesque layer of fog? New York City is not a city of dark, dangerous, moody alleys, but that has not stopped Hollywood from portraying it as such. And because the vision being brought to the screen isn't a realistic one, when a production needs a New York City alley like this in New York City, they often hit up one of the only real options: Cortlandt Alley...

     

    , @Ian Smith
    Mixed Blood from 1985 is a lot of fun.
    , @Cortes
    My candidate:

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Escape_from_New_York
    , @SunBakedSuburb
    The Taking of Pelham 123 (1974): An organized group of machine-gun wielding men led by a South African mercenary hold a subway car full of commuters hostage for ransom. The film doesn't involve feral black criminality, but it was filmed on location in NYC in the early 70s and the grit and grime of the city is authentically portrayed. The city itself is the main character. Plus, a great cast featuring Robert Shaw and Walter Matthau.
    , @RAZ
    Not crime so much, but Taxi Driver got the mid 70's filth and degradation down well. Panic in Needle Park got the early 70's drug thing down.

    Would never say it's not an improvement over the seediness of before, but maybe touristy NY like Times Square area is now over Disneyfied.
    , @JMcG
    The Taking of Pelham 1 2 3.
  11. Anon[324] • Disclaimer says:

    No-go zones in New York! It’s not just Sweden.

    In Japan, as a male at least, there is literally nowhere I wouldn’t walk, at any time night or day, that I can think of. Public crime is like … all that comes to mind are Iranians selling counterfeit public phone cards three decades ago. Or fake monks collecting money at train stations. I just hope Japan can protect their culture. And honestly … I have a certain sympathy for the Chinese versus Uyghurs. I mean, I’m sure Uyghurs are not bad people, but a stitch in time saves nine, and a lot of good happens from protecting cultural homogeneity. Omelettes and broken eggs.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    And honestly … I have a certain sympathy for the Chinese versus Uyghurs.
     
    The Uyghurs aren't invading China. Nor are the Tibetans.

    China has built ridiculously expensive high-speed rail lines to both "provinces". They are heavily subsidized, unlike all the other high-speed lines, which can run a profit.


    China already has cultural homogeneity-- in her core area. She should stay there.

    , @anonymous

    And honestly … I have a certain sympathy for the Chinese versus Uyghurs. I mean, I’m sure Uyghurs are not bad people
     
    Uighurs are bad people. In July 2009, over 1,000+ Uighurs went on a rampage of murder against Chinese people in the city of Urumqi. Over 100+ Chinese were knifed or bashed to death. This is the event that launched the Uighur insurgency that is now finally being completely put down by the Chinese. Security forces in China are locking up a large number of Uighurs but there are no allegations of death squads. This is a very non-violent counter insurgency and the Uighurs certainly deserve it. They reap the whirlwind.
    , @PiltdownMan

    I mean, I’m sure Uyghurs are not bad people, but a stitch in time saves nine, and a lot of good happens from protecting cultural homogeneity. Omelettes and broken eggs.

     

    The distance from Beijing to Hotan or Urumqi is about 2,500 miles. The Chinese Communist party is far from the Han Chinese homelands, and is in the Uyghurs' face. As for cultural homogeneity, it is being imposed from the outside by the Han Chinese and a Communist Party whose record of cultural sensitivity was established during the Cultural Revolution, i.e. they are barbarians, with neither a sense of history nor of culture.

    Which explains why a government would deliberately demolish 800 year old buildings, such as these two structurally sound and stunning examples of 13th century Central Asian architecture that were razed to the ground in the last two years.

    https://i.imgur.com/HQB0ncz.jpg

    https://i.imgur.com/QlzD88l.jpg

    , @Laurence Whelk

    In Japan, as a male at least, there is literally nowhere I wouldn’t walk, at any time night or day, that I can think of.
     
    Same for me living in Seoul for a couple of years, amazing how removing the sense of constant vigilance makes your life lighter and richer. Now I'm in LA and my head is on a swivel at all times. My wife remarks on the palpable lack of anxiety about physical security and safety she felt in Tokyo and Seoul and wonders how they achieve it. I tell her "Easy, no blacks no muslims". She says "keep your voice down, the window's open..."
    , @Oleaginous Outrager
    It has absolutely dick to do with "culture", mon frère:

    "The oil and gas extraction industry in Aksu and Karamay is booming, with the West–East Gas Pipeline connecting to Shanghai. The oil and petrochemical sector account for 60% of Xinjiang's local economy."
    , @johnyaya
    >I’m sure Uyghurs are not bad people

    I spent years living in China and there are Uighurs all over the place. In the Han dominated cities they form a very recognizable minority subculture. The good side of this subculture is the noodle shops which I used to patronize all the time, some of the food I miss the most from China is not even Han food, it's the Uighur lamb noodles.

    It doesn't take long though to hear negative stories about Uighurs. Beware the peanut candy merchants in the park, they will almost invariably try to rip you off, I used to think they were targeting foreigners until Han friends told me that the same thing happens to Han. And there was another prevalent rumor that the lamb kebabs sold on every street corner are not actually lamb but cat, coated with fake "lamb flavor".

    I also had a Uighur landlord that I got to know very well, he was basically a nice guy but was trying to become a real estate baron, so he rented his apartment to me and used the income to finance purchase of another; unfortunately, he had also borrowed money from Uighur loan sharks. On a couple of occasions, he begged me for advance payments to get these guys off his back, which I was glad to provide because I had the money saved up and he agreed to discount future rent payments to get the money immediately. Eventually, he must have fallen behind because he had to give up the new apartment and was forced to move back into the old one, so I had to move away.

    But I was left with a strong impression that the Uighur community was well supplied with mafia types that you wouldn't want to mess with. Certainly, the Han (who have their own set of vices and virtues) are deeply suspicious of them and aren't shedding any tears for the roundups in Xinjiang.
  12. The most poignant memory I have of visiting NYC is of my mom telling me to give her my wallet for safekeeping, putting it in her purse and then promptly getting her purse snatched.

    I was angry with my mother, the thief and NYC in general.

    That was in ’86. Now that I think about it, I still hold a grudge against that city.

    • Replies: @Buck Ransom
    A detail I remember from the early 80s: Cars parked along the street with hand-lettered signs affixed to the inside of the driver's and passenger's-side windows reading
    "NO RADIO!!! NOTHING OF VALUE IN CAR!!"
    This may have slightly reduced the incidence of smash-and-grabs in Gotham.
  13. @Paleo Retiree
    I moved to NYC in the late ‘70s. In my first five years there, I was pickpocketed twice, mugged twice and physically attacked once. Now, admittedly, I was a smalltown rube spending a lot of late-night time in rough neighborhoods where there were punk rock clubs and hip parties, but still. It was an era when you pretty much had to know the city block by block in order to know where’d you be safe and where you’d be likely to get in trouble. These days nearly all of Manhattan is amazingly safe.

    Oh, and whenever I tried reporting these crimes to the cops, they refused not just to do anything about them but to even record them. So I’m guessing that the official crime stats from that era wildly understate the actual crime rates.

    I moved to NYC in the late ‘70s. In my first five years there, I was pickpocketed twice, mugged twice and physically attacked once.

    One night passing through a busy corner of Times Square in that era, I felt a soft finger near one of my dorsal pockets. I turned quickly, and saw a long, tall pimp in a three-piece suit grin at me.

    I always kept cash in my front pocket. Maybe my Coast Guard ID card was back there. Don’t know what a pimp would do with that, but I’m not absolutely sure it was his finger.

    • Replies: @El Dato
    "Surprises in deep places!"
  14. @Clifford Brown

    The day’s events recalled the violence and anarchy that followed a Diana Ross concert in Central Park on July 23, 1983, when 80 people were arrested and 171 people filed complaints of beatings, robberies and other attacks that occurred in Columbus Circle
     
    Diana Ross in full on diva mode as a torrential storm erupts during her 1983 Central Park concert. At 3:25, something is certainly going on with the crowd and at the 5:00 mark, Diana Ross is openly pleading for calm.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rXWDwVY-270

    Miss Ross: “It took me a lifetime to get here, I’m not going anywhere!”

    If only there were really and truly a God above, that would have been an awesome time and place for a thunderbolt.

    • Agree: HammerJack
    • Replies: @Dan Hayes
    Mr McKenna:

    Not a thunderbolt but an earthquake chasm that will devour all the concert's lowlifes!
  15. Steve,

    The good old days in NYC are due to abruptly reappear on January 1, 2020 with the abrogation or lessening of many criminal penalties and the virtual elimination of bail.

    • Replies: @slumber_j

    The good old days in NYC are due to abruptly reappear on January 1, 2020 with the abrogation or lessening of many criminal penalties and the virtual elimination of bail.
     
    And we've just seen how nicely that turned out for a bunch of homeless guys murdered in cold blood:

    https://nypost.com/2019/10/07/the-two-big-breaks-that-left-chinatown-killer-randy-santos-free-to-roam-the-streets/
    , @slumber_j

    The good old days in NYC are due to abruptly reappear on January 1, 2020 with the abrogation or lessening of many criminal penalties and the virtual elimination of bail.
     
    And we've just seen how nicely that turned out for a bunch of homeless guys murdered in cold blood:

    https://nypost.com/2019/10/07/the-two-big-breaks-that-left-chinatown-killer-randy-santos-free-to-roam-the-streets/
    , @slumber_j

    The good old days in NYC are due to abruptly reappear on January 1, 2020 with the abrogation or lessening of many criminal penalties and the virtual elimination of bail.
     
    And we've just seen how nicely that turned out for a bunch of homeless guys murdered in cold blood:

    https://nypost.com/2019/10/07/the-two-big-breaks-that-left-chinatown-killer-randy-santos-free-to-roam-the-streets/
    , @ben tillman
    They're not eliminating bail; they're eliminating pretrial detention.
  16. Steve, I know, you never saw rats in your apt. I am so tired tonight…however, do not surprise me with dead stuff or weird live stuff. I love you all. October is a good time https:to take account of well, EVERYTHING!

    https://youtube./Auzohpyw2E

  17. @Reg Cæsar

    I moved to NYC in the late ‘70s. In my first five years there, I was pickpocketed twice, mugged twice and physically attacked once.
     
    One night passing through a busy corner of Times Square in that era, I felt a soft finger near one of my dorsal pockets. I turned quickly, and saw a long, tall pimp in a three-piece suit grin at me.

    I always kept cash in my front pocket. Maybe my Coast Guard ID card was back there. Don't know what a pimp would do with that, but I'm not absolutely sure it was his finger.

    “Surprises in deep places!”

  18. @Kronos
    What are the best films that captured NYC crime?

    1) Death Wish Series?
    2) Fort Apache?
    3) The French Connection?

    The “Bonfire of the Vanities” film was awful (I watched it) so it’s disqualified. But it has some imposition from the book.

    https://youtu.be/ZIz_RlNZZlg

    What are the best films that captured NYC crime?

    I don’t know if The French Connection captured NYC crime particularly accurately, but it certainly captured the look and feel of 1970s New York City exceptionally well, more so than the other movies, which, I (and other friends in the city) recall thinking at the time were really a Hollywoodish outsider take on New York City.

  19. @Anonymous
    You know, it’s unfortunate that no one who lived in the seedier and more criminally parts of New York in that timeframe has ever, you know, talked much about it. Much less written a book or anything like that. Certainly not recently.

    I moved to Avenue A in 1980 and it is true about Second Ave. Cabs frequently refused to take you past it, especially at night. You had to get out and walk the rest of the way in. I tended bar and, since closing time for (legal) bars was 4 a.m., the streets were usually dead by the time I got home with $20 in my wallet and $100 in my sock. The two long blocks between Ave A and Second Ave felt like twenty and it made sense to have a few drinks at an after hours club before heading home as dawn broke.

    I was mugged two or three times–quickly and efficiently. There wasn’t even time for my heart to start racing. Much scarier were the racial attacks. They were a lot more volatile and dangerous. There were always more of them. They were primarily Puerto Rican and, one time, Chinese. I never saw whites attack anyone.

    In one-on-one fights with a POC, you could quickly become outnumbered as passing POC, completely ignorant of the circumstances, rushed to join their co-ethnic. There was only one time that I can remember that a white guy stepped up to keep the fight fair.

    My brother and I once heard a girl screaming and arrived just in time to see a big hulking black guy shuffling down the street in one direction and a Puerto Rican sprinting around the corner in the other direction. A white girl was standing on the sidewalk holding her bleeding face and crying. The black guy and the Puerto Rican had worked as a team to steal her purse. The black guy had walked up and punched her without warning right in the face and the Puerto Rican guy had used the shock to steal her purse and run off down St Marks Place. My brother took off after the Puerto Rican and I took off after the black guy. He ran down Second Ave and turned right on E 3rd St. I rounded after him just in time to see him disappear inside the 8-story soup kitchen / men’s shelter in the middle of that block. A few seconds later, his accomplice, coming from the opposite direction, ran up and he, too, darted inside with my brother in pursuit. I could see he was still carrying the white girl’s purse, but we weren’t going inside that place. There was a cop on the corner, so I ran over to him and explained the situation. The cop, with his badge and gun, was afraid to go in that soup kitchen looking for the criminals. He waited for back up, and then they all still refused to go inside. They had us ride around in a squad car for a while looking for the “perps”, even though we all knew they were inside the men’s shelter. I felt sorry for that girl and lost a lot of respect for those cops.

    There was a small, tight-knit Ukranian community nearby and the Hell’s Angels had their clubhouse one block further east on 3rd St. One night, a Hell’s Angel raped a Ukranian girl. The Ukranians formed a posse and trashed that clubhouse and beat the hell out of a bunch of Hell’s Angels and found and killed the guy who raped the girl. They didn’t put up with shit.

    Ah, good times….

    • Replies: @anonymous
    Re the girl getting mugged: I was a college student at Columbia a few years before that....I stopped by the English Department one morning and the (white) secretary was at her desk, she had trouble speaking to me because her jaw had been broken...same m.o., a car stopped near her while she was walking, a black guy jumped out, and without a word he punched her out and took her purse. The technique worked, she was dazed and in too much pain even to scream.

    If I had been operating a business in Manhattan back then, I would have gotten a firearm...the hell with the Sullivan Law (better to be tried by 12, etc.).
    , @Blodgie
    I hope you have since learned that this type of macho white-knighting is stupid and can get you killed.

    How do you know she wasn't a whore holding out on her pimp?

    Foolish behavior on your part.
    , @Ian M.
    Great anecdotes.

    Vigilante justice is not ideal, but the story of how the Ukranian community reacted to the rape of one of their own indicates a much healthier community than ours are today.

    Recall the reaction to the Boston Marthon bombers on the loose: the entire metropolis was put on lockdown with people cowering in fear in their homes with the doors locked and bolted (think of the inspiration that must give aspiring terrorists: all they've got to do is set off a few pressure cooker bombs and they can get an entire metropolis to shut down). We have ceded too much control to the government in the role of protection. It emasculates men by depriving them of their protector role, and so when the time comes, men no longer know how to react, and just wait for law enforcement to arrive. The other extreme is not ideal either, where patriarchs take care of all the protection, which results in feuds and vengeance killings, but we've gone too far in the opposite direction.
    , @Tony
    Unless the Ukrainians were organized crime members, I highly doubt they would beat up a bunch of Hells Angels and kill one without severe retalliation. Only mobsters would even think of messing with the Angels, let alone get away with it.
  20. OT:

    It’s really time ICE changed its name to “Flower-Bearing Imperial Acceptance Management” or something.

    Microsoft, GitHub staff tell Satya Nadella: It’s time to ice ICE, baby. Rip up those tech contracts: Turmoil in Redmond over deals with US immigration agents

    A number [imprecise] of workers at both tech organizations [Microsoft and Github], overseen by Redmond CEO Satya Nadella, have issued open letters demanding executives step in and kill contracts with the agency that has become notorious for its poor treatment of asylum-seeking immigrant families.

    “asylum-seeking immigrant families” … that’s a “controversial” description.

    Shortly after word of the GitHub deal with ICE and Friedman’s [Nat Friedman is CEO of Microsoft’s Github tentacle] defense of it surfaced, Microsoft workers began circulating their own petitions and letters in support of their peers at GitHub.

    “Microsoft is an international company that professes to equality and diversity, and is built on the labor of many immigrants. So how can we continue to do business with an organization that endlessly terrorizes this populace?

    Does that mean Microsoft employs undocumented wage slaves in the Redmond Dungeon? Should someone look into this?

    “We demand that Microsoft upholds its own guidelines in our commitment for human rights. As leaders in the tech industry, we are paving the way for others to follow.”

    Given Microsoft QUALITY products, I sure hope this is not true.

  21. I lived in Morningside Heights in Manhattan in the early to mid 1980s, and one of the things that visitors from elsewhere were cautioned against was missing the stop at Columbia University and overshooting to 125th Street, which was in Harlem. It was pretty much understood that a white person who did that stood a pretty significant chance of being mugged or shaken down at that stop, as they tried to make their way from the uptown side platform to the downtown side to come back.

    The more northern areas of Central Park were also a no go area, and the doing a full circuit around the reservoir, especially after mid-afternoon or so, was considered to be a risky proposition. Aside from the Columbia University area, Morningside Heights, it was pretty much understood that 110th Street was the northern boundary for safe streets. I remember the crime statistic much spoken about in those days—Times Square subway station averaged about 40 muggings a night.

    New York City was indeed an edgy kind of place, but as a resident, you just internalized all the rules and cautions, and it was a pretty good life there. Outsiders, however, from the suburbs, were terrified of the place. My brother-in-law, who lived in New Jersey, flat out refused to drive into the city until the late 1980s. And the couple of times he did visit, there was no way I could persuade him to visit CBGB in the Bowery, despite his enlightened interest in punk and new wave.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    A bunch of famous people there. Joey and one or two other Ramones. A couple of others in famous bands. And if I’m not mistaken a porn star, but not who you think.
    , @International Jew
    I knew that New York too. Isn't it amazing, what detailed specialized geographical knowledge we mastered then? Maybe we were drawing on a survival skill that evolved long ago when our little hunting bands ranged widely while needing to keep in mind where the rival bands' territories were.

    I spent the summer of 1978 in France and the most striking thing wasn't the cheese or the cathedrals, but the freedom; I could walk anywhere I wanted, any time. In a way, Rouen was bigger than New York City!

    , @Jack D
    I lived up there then too and you never, never went into Morningside Park. But I have to tell you that 125th Street was actually OK, at least in the daytime. I had a summer job with IBM in Westchester and I would take the Hudson line from the 125th St. Station so I got to know 125th st. pretty well. No one ever bothered me. There were actually some interesting businesses up there. There was a live poultry market (they would kill and dress it for you). There was a store that sold Fuller Brush products - I still have the dust mop that I bought there - their stuff lasted forever.

    Mrs. Eshad Ali had an Indian restaurant by that name on 125th St. She made the best aloo paratha that I have ever had to this day. Mrs. Ali was an African American woman, elderly at the time that I knew her and Mr. Ali was dead. Mr. Ali had been a Bengali Muslim sailor who jumped ship in the '30s and was one of the few Indians in America at that point. The only place he could find acceptance was in Harlem where his dark skin did not stand out and he opened a small Indian restaurant. He was ashamed that he married a Negro and told everyone that his wife was just his cleaning lady - Mrs. Ali told me this story without any guile or bitterness. After he died, she inherited the restaurant so she got the last laugh. She had learned all of Mr. Ali's recipes and techniques and was a great Indian cook. She didn't try to fuse it with African American cuisine - it was just straight up Indian food cooked by an elderly American black woman.

    , @Paleo Liberal
    My brother went to Columbia in the mid-late 1990s. The first thing everyone was told was never, ever, under any circumstances go inside Morningside Park. Ever. Don’t even think about it.

    In the late 70s he and some friends moved into a building on 122 st. They were large fellows, good for the initial gentrification. That building was mostly black families. The building was owned by one of the worst slumlords in the city — Jewish Theological Seminary. Once there was a fire in the building. The landlord didn’t care. At one point his roommate’s mother called up the Seminary and said: “as a Jew, I am shocked”. Repairs came quickly.

    I do remember getting off the train at 125 st, even after midnight. I was a little over 6’, and my brother was 6’4”, and we were both young and broke.

    , @prosa123
    Aside from the Columbia University area, Morningside Heights, it was pretty much understood that 110th Street was the northern boundary for safe streets.

    On the West Side. Over on the East Side 96th Street was the safe/unsafe boundary.

    One confounding factor in NYC, both then and now, is that there are horrible housing projects plunked down in the middle of what are otherwise decent areas. A classic example is in the otherwise safe and increasingly prosperous Long Island City neighborhood, which houses the Queensbridge Houses, by some accounts the nation's largest project. So far the residents have not caused much trouble outside the project itself, but that can change at any time.

    , @Alden
    Jewish liberals and their beloved blacks. That combination destroyed every city they ruled.
  22. @Anon
    No-go zones in New York! It's not just Sweden.

    In Japan, as a male at least, there is literally nowhere I wouldn't walk, at any time night or day, that I can think of. Public crime is like ... all that comes to mind are Iranians selling counterfeit public phone cards three decades ago. Or fake monks collecting money at train stations. I just hope Japan can protect their culture. And honestly ... I have a certain sympathy for the Chinese versus Uyghurs. I mean, I'm sure Uyghurs are not bad people, but a stitch in time saves nine, and a lot of good happens from protecting cultural homogeneity. Omelettes and broken eggs.

    And honestly … I have a certain sympathy for the Chinese versus Uyghurs.

    The Uyghurs aren’t invading China. Nor are the Tibetans.

    China has built ridiculously expensive high-speed rail lines to both “provinces”. They are heavily subsidized, unlike all the other high-speed lines, which can run a profit.

    China already has cultural homogeneity– in her core area. She should stay there.

    • Agree: LondonBob
    • Replies: @anonymous
    There are high speed rail lines to Urumqi, Xinjiang and Xining, Qinghai. Both cities are ethnically Han and at the edge of provinces with a a significant Uighur and Tibetan minority respectively.

    In Urumqi the city is even almost 90% Han and Hui. Uighurs from southwest Xinjiang are migrating to Urumqi. That is where 3/4 of Uighurs live and the cities there are overwhelmingly Uighur. Whenever a city is overwhelmingly Uighur the economy sucks and there are no jobs and no future for the youth. These youths migrate to the Chinese parts of Xinjiang. They lived in slums in South Urumqi and built up resentment against the more successful majority. In July 2009 the Uighurs went on a gigantic rampage massacre against Chinese people. Now they reap the whirlwind. China has been kind enough to conduct it's counterinsurgency and interment in the nicest, most non-violent way possible (in the third world context). The Uighurs need to learn about hot to get along with other communities. Something that must be taught to almost all Muslim groups.
    , @Coag
    That’s like saying Philadelphia had enough homogeneity so Americans should have stayed there and never gone west.

    China’s getting the colonialist/imperialist thing out of its system.
  23. anonymous[108] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anon
    No-go zones in New York! It's not just Sweden.

    In Japan, as a male at least, there is literally nowhere I wouldn't walk, at any time night or day, that I can think of. Public crime is like ... all that comes to mind are Iranians selling counterfeit public phone cards three decades ago. Or fake monks collecting money at train stations. I just hope Japan can protect their culture. And honestly ... I have a certain sympathy for the Chinese versus Uyghurs. I mean, I'm sure Uyghurs are not bad people, but a stitch in time saves nine, and a lot of good happens from protecting cultural homogeneity. Omelettes and broken eggs.

    And honestly … I have a certain sympathy for the Chinese versus Uyghurs. I mean, I’m sure Uyghurs are not bad people

    Uighurs are bad people. In July 2009, over 1,000+ Uighurs went on a rampage of murder against Chinese people in the city of Urumqi. Over 100+ Chinese were knifed or bashed to death. This is the event that launched the Uighur insurgency that is now finally being completely put down by the Chinese. Security forces in China are locking up a large number of Uighurs but there are no allegations of death squads. This is a very non-violent counter insurgency and the Uighurs certainly deserve it. They reap the whirlwind.

    • Replies: @The Wild Geese Howard
    The Chinese are correct about the Uighurs as the Burmese are correct about the Rohingya. They are showing us how the followers of a horrible religion should be dealt with.
    , @Kevin O'Keeffe

    Uighurs are bad people. In July 2009, over 1,000+ Uighurs went on a rampage of murder against Chinese people in the city of Urumqi.
     
    Maybe they just don't like being ruled by the Chinese, and would prefer to have their own nation?
  24. @Mr McKenna
    Miss Ross: "It took me a lifetime to get here, I'm not going anywhere!"

    If only there were really and truly a God above, that would have been an awesome time and place for a thunderbolt.

    Mr McKenna:

    Not a thunderbolt but an earthquake chasm that will devour all the concert’s lowlifes!

  25. anonymous[108] • Disclaimer says:
    @Reg Cæsar

    And honestly … I have a certain sympathy for the Chinese versus Uyghurs.
     
    The Uyghurs aren't invading China. Nor are the Tibetans.

    China has built ridiculously expensive high-speed rail lines to both "provinces". They are heavily subsidized, unlike all the other high-speed lines, which can run a profit.


    China already has cultural homogeneity-- in her core area. She should stay there.

    There are high speed rail lines to Urumqi, Xinjiang and Xining, Qinghai. Both cities are ethnically Han and at the edge of provinces with a a significant Uighur and Tibetan minority respectively.

    In Urumqi the city is even almost 90% Han and Hui. Uighurs from southwest Xinjiang are migrating to Urumqi. That is where 3/4 of Uighurs live and the cities there are overwhelmingly Uighur. Whenever a city is overwhelmingly Uighur the economy sucks and there are no jobs and no future for the youth. These youths migrate to the Chinese parts of Xinjiang. They lived in slums in South Urumqi and built up resentment against the more successful majority. In July 2009 the Uighurs went on a gigantic rampage massacre against Chinese people. Now they reap the whirlwind. China has been kind enough to conduct it’s counterinsurgency and interment in the nicest, most non-violent way possible (in the third world context). The Uighurs need to learn about hot to get along with other communities. Something that must be taught to almost all Muslim groups.

    • Replies: @JMcG
    Whats the Chinese word for hasbara?
  26. I visited NYC for the first time in 1991 and stayed in Greenpoint, Brooklyn. The city seemed relatively safe to me — and contra the stereotype — the residents were friendly and helpful.

    The only smart ass we ran across was a transit cop.

    • Replies: @peterike

    I visited NYC for the first time in 1991 and stayed in Greenpoint, Brooklyn. The city seemed relatively safe to me — and contra the stereotype — the residents were friendly and helpful.
     
    Greenpoint then had a run-down look -- it still does -- but parts of it were almost completely Polish, hence the safety. There's still a remnant of that, but like so many other parts of NYC, Greenpoint is now gentrified hipster land, though you'll still see old ladies in black stockings walking around.
  27. @Kronos
    What are the best films that captured NYC crime?

    1) Death Wish Series?
    2) Fort Apache?
    3) The French Connection?

    The “Bonfire of the Vanities” film was awful (I watched it) so it’s disqualified. But it has some imposition from the book.

    https://youtu.be/ZIz_RlNZZlg

    What are the best films that captured NYC crime?

    WOLF (Nicholson)
    BRAVE ONE

  28. @Anon
    No-go zones in New York! It's not just Sweden.

    In Japan, as a male at least, there is literally nowhere I wouldn't walk, at any time night or day, that I can think of. Public crime is like ... all that comes to mind are Iranians selling counterfeit public phone cards three decades ago. Or fake monks collecting money at train stations. I just hope Japan can protect their culture. And honestly ... I have a certain sympathy for the Chinese versus Uyghurs. I mean, I'm sure Uyghurs are not bad people, but a stitch in time saves nine, and a lot of good happens from protecting cultural homogeneity. Omelettes and broken eggs.

    I mean, I’m sure Uyghurs are not bad people, but a stitch in time saves nine, and a lot of good happens from protecting cultural homogeneity. Omelettes and broken eggs.

    The distance from Beijing to Hotan or Urumqi is about 2,500 miles. The Chinese Communist party is far from the Han Chinese homelands, and is in the Uyghurs’ face. As for cultural homogeneity, it is being imposed from the outside by the Han Chinese and a Communist Party whose record of cultural sensitivity was established during the Cultural Revolution, i.e. they are barbarians, with neither a sense of history nor of culture.

    Which explains why a government would deliberately demolish 800 year old buildings, such as these two structurally sound and stunning examples of 13th century Central Asian architecture that were razed to the ground in the last two years.

    • Replies: @Bill P
    Yes, the communists are the barbarians -- not the Uyghurs. I saw how badly they are treated firsthand. Uyghurs are a civilized people. Much more so than many of the westerners doing business in China.

    Regarding the Uyghurs, don't blink or you'll miss them -- they'll be gone in a couple generations, along with a lot of others, such as the Salars, Pamiris and maybe even the Tibetans.

    Thousands of years of civilization down the drain. Today is even worse than the bronze age collapse.
    , @Jim bob Lassiter
    They (Chinese) must have been triggered in a metaphoric fashion by CSA monuments.
    , @Charon
    Defiling and demolishing their monuments; disparaging and delegitimizing their heroes. Thus does an occupying power demoralize and denigrate a subject population.

    Something awfully familiar about this.

    , @sayless
    Gorgeous buildings. What’s with the hatred of beauty, anyway.

    The revolutionaries wanted to blow up Chartres but thought the masonry would land in the town below.
    , @anonymous
    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/95/Xinjiang_map.png

    Xinjiang is the size of a mini continent. Urumqi is a 90% Han/Hui city created by Chinese people. The Uighur homeland is on the opposite end of Xinjiang in the western third where 3 out of 4 Uighurs are located. It was Uighurs who decided to get in the face of Chinese people by migrating to Urumqi and then going on a violent rampage. Uighurs have a low average IQ and are unable to create wealth or employment. Without oil or outside subsidy, Uighur lands would be poor as Tajikistan. That is why so many Uighurs migrated to the Chinese-side of Xinjiang to find employment and a future.
    , @anonymous
    You are spreading misinformation. The 780 year old mosque was not demolished. The north gatehouse built in the 1990s was demolished. The original person tweeting the allegation later clarified

    https://medium.com/@shawnwzhang/clarification-of-keriya-etika-mosques-current-situations-9678a6975a51
  29. Peter Moskos is interesting. His father was Charles Moskos the military sociologist who came up with the “don’t ask , don’t tell” compromise. Peter also worked as a Baltimore cop while doing research as Harvard grad student.

  30. We will see violent crime increase again in NYC and other cities. Its probably inevitable. As the left fights for restrictions on cops and leniency for criminals, it’s only a matter of time. White liberals are too stupid and-or ignorant to understand that the only reason they can live safely in these cities is due to the crackdown of the 80s and 90s. They’ll have to learn the hard way.

    • Replies: @MBlanc46
    Good and hard, one hopes.
  31. @The Last Real Calvinist
    It's interesting to analyse the vocabulary and style of a 1985 urban crime story . .

    First, the headline to that story is direct, and in the active voice, i.e. 'Roving Gangs Rob Charity Walkers'.

    We get some fairly 'triggering' descriptions, e.g. 'packs of roving youths attacked and harassed scores of marchers' and 'scores of arriving marchers fell prey to youths who swarmed upon them'.

    The reporter also interviewed actual crime victims, who then provide further juicy details, e.g. 'They looked like they had been through a tornado' and 'he and others were made to run a virtual gantlet of young thugs'. (Extra kudos to the erstwhile NYT for using 'gantlet' instead of 'gauntlet'.)

    And yet, the passive tone that dominates today's crime news is already present in nascent pockets of infection. For example, the miscreants in question are 'youths', and the faux-meteorological construction 'Much of the violence occurred . . .' sets the pace for decades of euphemism and evasion to follow.

    It’s interesting to analyse the vocabulary and style of a 1985 urban crime story..

    Indeed it is.

    What about this one: (emphasis mine)

    ”Two 19-year-old girls were walking along when a herd of about 100 youths – one of the roving bands – came running by,” said Lieut. James Keneally of the Central Park Precinct.

    When was the last time a police lieutenant could get away with using a word such as herd to describe youths? Hasn’t it been some years or even decades now that such usage has been considered racist, dehumanizing language?

    • Replies: @The Last Real Calvinist

    When was the last time a police lieutenant could get away with using a word such as herd to describe youths?

     

    Indeed. The article includes three metaphors that compare the youths to animals (pack, herd, and, by implication, swarm), and two that label them as organized/professional criminals (thugs and gang).

    Times have changed.

    , @International Jew

    a herd of about 100 youths
     
    Pack (which appears earlier) is more apt.

    I might say herd for the pack's female auxiliary.

  32. Night on Earth, the New York part:

    Armin Müller Stahl as Taxi Driver apparently just in from the DDR and Giancarlo Esposito as negro passenger.

    That’s a movie from ’91. https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0102536/

    Actually reminds me of a Taxi Driver I met in Zürich.

  33. @Dissident

    It’s interesting to analyse the vocabulary and style of a 1985 urban crime story..
     
    Indeed it is.

    What about this one: (emphasis mine)


    ''Two 19-year-old girls were walking along when a herd of about 100 youths - one of the roving bands - came running by,'' said Lieut. James Keneally of the Central Park Precinct.
     
    When was the last time a police lieutenant could get away with using a word such as herd to describe youths? Hasn't it been some years or even decades now that such usage has been considered racist, dehumanizing language?

    When was the last time a police lieutenant could get away with using a word such as herd to describe youths?

    Indeed. The article includes three metaphors that compare the youths to animals (pack, herd, and, by implication, swarm), and two that label them as organized/professional criminals (thugs and gang).

    Times have changed.

  34. So NYC wasn’t as fun as old Lou Reed songs make it sound?

  35. @PiltdownMan

    I mean, I’m sure Uyghurs are not bad people, but a stitch in time saves nine, and a lot of good happens from protecting cultural homogeneity. Omelettes and broken eggs.

     

    The distance from Beijing to Hotan or Urumqi is about 2,500 miles. The Chinese Communist party is far from the Han Chinese homelands, and is in the Uyghurs' face. As for cultural homogeneity, it is being imposed from the outside by the Han Chinese and a Communist Party whose record of cultural sensitivity was established during the Cultural Revolution, i.e. they are barbarians, with neither a sense of history nor of culture.

    Which explains why a government would deliberately demolish 800 year old buildings, such as these two structurally sound and stunning examples of 13th century Central Asian architecture that were razed to the ground in the last two years.

    https://i.imgur.com/HQB0ncz.jpg

    https://i.imgur.com/QlzD88l.jpg

    Yes, the communists are the barbarians — not the Uyghurs. I saw how badly they are treated firsthand. Uyghurs are a civilized people. Much more so than many of the westerners doing business in China.

    Regarding the Uyghurs, don’t blink or you’ll miss them — they’ll be gone in a couple generations, along with a lot of others, such as the Salars, Pamiris and maybe even the Tibetans.

    Thousands of years of civilization down the drain. Today is even worse than the bronze age collapse.

    • Replies: @Coag
    Oh please, there is no equivalency between Uyghurs and Tibetans. The Chinese are realists. They have a clearheaded view of the difference between Islam and Buddhism. Someone (Razib?) once said Islam is defined simply as cultural technology to create aggressive individuals. That’s the working definition of Islam used by the CCP. That is why there is an urgency to import millions of Han immigrants into Xinjiang to swamp the locals, while there is no urgency at all to populate Tibet with Han. Meanwhile Tibetan Buddhism is fashionable to practice among Han businessmen to ostentatiously atone for their otherwise piglike behaviors in the mortal coil.

    Tibet can be controlled with a handful of riflemen. While the only way the CCP thinks it can control Xinjiang and Islam is by all out genocide. A relatively bloodless genocide involving gulags, language bans, mosque demolitions, and kidnapping Uyghur kids to foster in Han families, but a genocide nonetheless.

    The traditional retaliation for terrorism is genocide. America has tried to buck tradition by responding to terrorism in the exact opposite way — by increasing the population of antagonistic ethnicities, while China has stuck with tradition. The two cases considered together are a veritable sociological experiment.
  36. @Reg Cæsar

    And honestly … I have a certain sympathy for the Chinese versus Uyghurs.
     
    The Uyghurs aren't invading China. Nor are the Tibetans.

    China has built ridiculously expensive high-speed rail lines to both "provinces". They are heavily subsidized, unlike all the other high-speed lines, which can run a profit.


    China already has cultural homogeneity-- in her core area. She should stay there.

    That’s like saying Philadelphia had enough homogeneity so Americans should have stayed there and never gone west.

    China’s getting the colonialist/imperialist thing out of its system.

  37. @PiltdownMan
    I lived in Morningside Heights in Manhattan in the early to mid 1980s, and one of the things that visitors from elsewhere were cautioned against was missing the stop at Columbia University and overshooting to 125th Street, which was in Harlem. It was pretty much understood that a white person who did that stood a pretty significant chance of being mugged or shaken down at that stop, as they tried to make their way from the uptown side platform to the downtown side to come back.

    The more northern areas of Central Park were also a no go area, and the doing a full circuit around the reservoir, especially after mid-afternoon or so, was considered to be a risky proposition. Aside from the Columbia University area, Morningside Heights, it was pretty much understood that 110th Street was the northern boundary for safe streets. I remember the crime statistic much spoken about in those days—Times Square subway station averaged about 40 muggings a night.

    New York City was indeed an edgy kind of place, but as a resident, you just internalized all the rules and cautions, and it was a pretty good life there. Outsiders, however, from the suburbs, were terrified of the place. My brother-in-law, who lived in New Jersey, flat out refused to drive into the city until the late 1980s. And the couple of times he did visit, there was no way I could persuade him to visit CBGB in the Bowery, despite his enlightened interest in punk and new wave.

    http://www.bobgruen.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/R-230_CBGB_Outside1977_Gruen1.jpg

    A bunch of famous people there. Joey and one or two other Ramones. A couple of others in famous bands. And if I’m not mistaken a porn star, but not who you think.

  38. … And one day, Bernie Goetz said “enough is enough.”

  39. @Bill P
    Yes, the communists are the barbarians -- not the Uyghurs. I saw how badly they are treated firsthand. Uyghurs are a civilized people. Much more so than many of the westerners doing business in China.

    Regarding the Uyghurs, don't blink or you'll miss them -- they'll be gone in a couple generations, along with a lot of others, such as the Salars, Pamiris and maybe even the Tibetans.

    Thousands of years of civilization down the drain. Today is even worse than the bronze age collapse.

    Oh please, there is no equivalency between Uyghurs and Tibetans. The Chinese are realists. They have a clearheaded view of the difference between Islam and Buddhism. Someone (Razib?) once said Islam is defined simply as cultural technology to create aggressive individuals. That’s the working definition of Islam used by the CCP. That is why there is an urgency to import millions of Han immigrants into Xinjiang to swamp the locals, while there is no urgency at all to populate Tibet with Han. Meanwhile Tibetan Buddhism is fashionable to practice among Han businessmen to ostentatiously atone for their otherwise piglike behaviors in the mortal coil.

    Tibet can be controlled with a handful of riflemen. While the only way the CCP thinks it can control Xinjiang and Islam is by all out genocide. A relatively bloodless genocide involving gulags, language bans, mosque demolitions, and kidnapping Uyghur kids to foster in Han families, but a genocide nonetheless.

    The traditional retaliation for terrorism is genocide. America has tried to buck tradition by responding to terrorism in the exact opposite way — by increasing the population of antagonistic ethnicities, while China has stuck with tradition. The two cases considered together are a veritable sociological experiment.

  40. How funny you are today New York
    Like Ginger Rogers in “Swingtime”
    And St. Bridget’s steeple leaning a little to the left
    ….even the stabbings are helping the population explosion
    — Frank O’Hara

    A bus crashes into a milk truck
    And the girl goes skating up the avenue
    With streaming hair…
    –Frank again

    What a mess, this town’s in tatters
    I been shattered
    My brain’s been battered,
    Splattered all over
    Manhattan
    — Mick Jagger, who should know

    Too much! Too many people!
    Too much!
    You might get fooled
    If you come from out of town
    But I’m down by law
    And I know my way around
    — Grandmaster Flash

    It’s like a jungle
    Sometimes it makes me wonder
    How I keep from going under
    — Grandmaster, again

    In case you’re wondering
    What this means,
    We’re funky fresh
    From Hollis, Queens
    — Run-DMC

    All about dat personality crisis
    You got it while it was hot,
    But now frustration and heartache
    Is all you got.
    Let’s have a talk about personality!
    — New York Dolls

    It’s always /some/thing.
    — Roseanne Rosannadanna

    The Mercy Killers!
    May they have mercy on you!
    — Bill Murray

    Gonna take a walk
    Down Union Square,
    You never know
    What you’re gonna find there.
    — Lou Reed

    Shattered in heaven
    And found on these streets
    — Jim Carroll

    It’s like a locomotive on the march,
    The season of distress and clarity
    … but no more fountains and no more rain,
    And the stores stay open terribly late.
    — Frank O’Hara

  41. @Kronos
    What are the best films that captured NYC crime?

    1) Death Wish Series?
    2) Fort Apache?
    3) The French Connection?

    The “Bonfire of the Vanities” film was awful (I watched it) so it’s disqualified. But it has some imposition from the book.

    https://youtu.be/ZIz_RlNZZlg

    The Warriors?

  42. anonymous[340] • Disclaimer says:
    @The Last Real Calvinist
    It's interesting to analyse the vocabulary and style of a 1985 urban crime story . .

    First, the headline to that story is direct, and in the active voice, i.e. 'Roving Gangs Rob Charity Walkers'.

    We get some fairly 'triggering' descriptions, e.g. 'packs of roving youths attacked and harassed scores of marchers' and 'scores of arriving marchers fell prey to youths who swarmed upon them'.

    The reporter also interviewed actual crime victims, who then provide further juicy details, e.g. 'They looked like they had been through a tornado' and 'he and others were made to run a virtual gantlet of young thugs'. (Extra kudos to the erstwhile NYT for using 'gantlet' instead of 'gauntlet'.)

    And yet, the passive tone that dominates today's crime news is already present in nascent pockets of infection. For example, the miscreants in question are 'youths', and the faux-meteorological construction 'Much of the violence occurred . . .' sets the pace for decades of euphemism and evasion to follow.

    This is an insightful comment.

    Most people never stop to think about the subtle, manipulative power of language. And it’s far harder to spot in oral speech, usually accompanied by soundtracks and images that enhance the propaganda.

    James Howard Kunstler has urged a return to reading and writing good English if we want a more coherent, cohesive society. The Establishment prefers and promotes Babel.

  43. @anonymous

    And honestly … I have a certain sympathy for the Chinese versus Uyghurs. I mean, I’m sure Uyghurs are not bad people
     
    Uighurs are bad people. In July 2009, over 1,000+ Uighurs went on a rampage of murder against Chinese people in the city of Urumqi. Over 100+ Chinese were knifed or bashed to death. This is the event that launched the Uighur insurgency that is now finally being completely put down by the Chinese. Security forces in China are locking up a large number of Uighurs but there are no allegations of death squads. This is a very non-violent counter insurgency and the Uighurs certainly deserve it. They reap the whirlwind.

    The Chinese are correct about the Uighurs as the Burmese are correct about the Rohingya. They are showing us how the followers of a horrible religion should be dealt with.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    That would only be true for Uighurs in China.

    Are there any?
  44. I never understood why Rudolph Giuliani never ran for President.

    • Replies: @Jim Don Bob

    I never understood why Rudolph Giuliani never ran for President.
     
    Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rudy_Giuliani) says that Rudy ran in 2008, but withdrew early. His pro-abortion stance (required in NYC) was a disadvantage nationally.
    , @Alden
    He was running at some point but he got cancer and had to deal with it. I think it was when Obama and Hildabeast ran against each other in the primaries.
  45. Numinous Negroes are always certain to deliver the goods of Diversity.

    • Agree: Richard P
  46. @Dan Hayes
    Steve,

    The good old days in NYC are due to abruptly reappear on January 1, 2020 with the abrogation or lessening of many criminal penalties and the virtual elimination of bail.

    The good old days in NYC are due to abruptly reappear on January 1, 2020 with the abrogation or lessening of many criminal penalties and the virtual elimination of bail.

    And we’ve just seen how nicely that turned out for a bunch of homeless guys murdered in cold blood:

    https://nypost.com/2019/10/07/the-two-big-breaks-that-left-chinatown-killer-randy-santos-free-to-roam-the-streets/

  47. @Dan Hayes
    Steve,

    The good old days in NYC are due to abruptly reappear on January 1, 2020 with the abrogation or lessening of many criminal penalties and the virtual elimination of bail.

    The good old days in NYC are due to abruptly reappear on January 1, 2020 with the abrogation or lessening of many criminal penalties and the virtual elimination of bail.

    And we’ve just seen how nicely that turned out for a bunch of homeless guys murdered in cold blood:

    https://nypost.com/2019/10/07/the-two-big-breaks-that-left-chinatown-killer-randy-santos-free-to-roam-the-streets/

    • Replies: @El Dato

    Founded in 2007, the Bronx Freedom Fund provides bail of up to $2,000 for defendants charged with misdemeanors to help them “avoid the dire consequences of pretrial detention,” according to its most recent IRS filing.

    It receives 100% of its funding from unspecified “private donations and foundations” and had just over $1 million on hand as of July 30, 2018, the tax-exempt group’s returns
    show.

    ...

    Neither the fund’s director, Elena Weissman, nor its chairman and co-founder, David Feige, returned requests for comment.
     
    It's just another paycheck generator.
  48. @Dan Hayes
    Steve,

    The good old days in NYC are due to abruptly reappear on January 1, 2020 with the abrogation or lessening of many criminal penalties and the virtual elimination of bail.

    The good old days in NYC are due to abruptly reappear on January 1, 2020 with the abrogation or lessening of many criminal penalties and the virtual elimination of bail.

    And we’ve just seen how nicely that turned out for a bunch of homeless guys murdered in cold blood:

    https://nypost.com/2019/10/07/the-two-big-breaks-that-left-chinatown-killer-randy-santos-free-to-roam-the-streets/

    • Replies: @Jack D
    "Santos spent nearly three weeks in jail before the Bronx Freedom Fund bailed him out...

    Founded in 2007, the Bronx Freedom Fund provides bail of up to $2,000 for defendants charged with misdemeanors to help them “avoid the dire consequences of pretrial detention,” according to its most recent IRS filing.

    It receives 100% of its funding from unspecified “private donations and foundations” and had just over $1 million on hand as of July 30, 2018, the tax-exempt group’s returns show.
    ...
    Neither the fund’s director, Elena Weissman, nor its chairman and co-founder, David Feige, returned requests for comment."

    I think if you provide bail for someone and they skip out, you should be required to take their place. You should also be civilly and criminally liable for any acts that they commit while out on bail. By providing bail, you are vouching that this person is not a danger to society and will appear for trial. $2,000 is nothing (except to an indigent criminal - that was a feature and not a bug) and now they aren't even going to bother with that anymore. Crime is going to rise UNEXPECTEDLY, even INEXPLICABLY in New York once this gets going.

  49. Sorry for multiple posts: not sure what happened there.

    • Replies: @Kronos
    Did the connection get “stuck” and did you press the refresh button on the internet browser? That’s what happened to me a few months back.
  50. @The Alarmist

    For example, in the Greenwich Village area, the west side of Second Avenue was okay, but don’t cross Second Avenue! There were legendary Alphabet Avenues on the Lower East Side that few people I talked to had ever walked. There be dragons…
     
    I visited a friend who lived in NYC in the '00s, and took him to Benny's Burritos in Alphabet City, the Lower East side. He spent the entire time on high alert. This was the relatively gentrified Alphabet City post-Guiliani.

    When I first moved to NYC under General Dinkins, Alphabet City was a place you might want to avoid. One night, while hanging in King Tut's Wah Wah Hut with a babe named Chantal, dressed in a chain mail blouse, I realised my friend had disappeared, so I went went wandering into the homeless city called Thompkins Square Park to find him, where I found him shooting up with one of the local denizens.

    But that was child's play compared to having a dozen "youths" set upon me while I was jogging around the Central Park Reservoir on the "safe" Upper East Side.

    Those were some dark times in NYC indeed. Things got infinitely better under Guiliani, but all things must pass.

    1980s King Tut’s Wah Wah Hut brings back memories. Remember that riot at Tompkins Square Park when the cops took their badges off and started pounding on the park denizens? Badges. We don’t need no stinkin’ badges.

    1980s NYPD was long days in the doughnut shop followed by a few spasms of crazy violence.

  51. Anonymous[388] • Disclaimer says:
    @Kronos
    What are the best films that captured NYC crime?

    1) Death Wish Series?
    2) Fort Apache?
    3) The French Connection?

    The “Bonfire of the Vanities” film was awful (I watched it) so it’s disqualified. But it has some imposition from the book.

    https://youtu.be/ZIz_RlNZZlg

    What are the best films that captured NYC crime?

    1) Death Wish Series?
    2) Fort Apache?
    3) The French Connection?

    New York City unlike some other major cities doesn’t have alleys. So in TV shows and movies depicting gritty New York City with dark, dangerous alleys they have only one alley to film the scene in.

    https://gothamist.com/arts-entertainment/this-is-the-most-filmed-in-alley-in-nyc

    This Is The Most Filmed In Alley In NYC

    When is the last time you hooked a left into an alley to cut across to the next street? Or to feed a feral cat? Or to stash a backpack? Or to hide from someone, right there, behind one of those dumpsters, crouched in a picturesque layer of fog? New York City is not a city of dark, dangerous, moody alleys, but that has not stopped Hollywood from portraying it as such. And because the vision being brought to the screen isn’t a realistic one, when a production needs a New York City alley like this in New York City, they often hit up one of the only real options: Cortlandt Alley…

    • Replies: @prosa123
    New York City unlike some other major cities doesn’t have alleys. So in TV shows and movies depicting gritty New York City with dark, dangerous alleys they have only one alley to film the scene in.

    And yet, the climactic scene of Breakfast at Tiffany's, one of the most New York-centric movies of all time, took place in an alley.
    , @slumber_j
    That was right next to the apartment I temporarily fetched up at in 1999. We called it Piss Alley. You're right: NYC has almost no alleys.
  52. • Replies: @njguy73
    The Babylon Bee is satire. It's a conservative version of The Onion.
  53. anonymous[208] • Disclaimer says:
    @craig nelsen
    I moved to Avenue A in 1980 and it is true about Second Ave. Cabs frequently refused to take you past it, especially at night. You had to get out and walk the rest of the way in. I tended bar and, since closing time for (legal) bars was 4 a.m., the streets were usually dead by the time I got home with $20 in my wallet and $100 in my sock. The two long blocks between Ave A and Second Ave felt like twenty and it made sense to have a few drinks at an after hours club before heading home as dawn broke.

    I was mugged two or three times--quickly and efficiently. There wasn't even time for my heart to start racing. Much scarier were the racial attacks. They were a lot more volatile and dangerous. There were always more of them. They were primarily Puerto Rican and, one time, Chinese. I never saw whites attack anyone.

    In one-on-one fights with a POC, you could quickly become outnumbered as passing POC, completely ignorant of the circumstances, rushed to join their co-ethnic. There was only one time that I can remember that a white guy stepped up to keep the fight fair.

    My brother and I once heard a girl screaming and arrived just in time to see a big hulking black guy shuffling down the street in one direction and a Puerto Rican sprinting around the corner in the other direction. A white girl was standing on the sidewalk holding her bleeding face and crying. The black guy and the Puerto Rican had worked as a team to steal her purse. The black guy had walked up and punched her without warning right in the face and the Puerto Rican guy had used the shock to steal her purse and run off down St Marks Place. My brother took off after the Puerto Rican and I took off after the black guy. He ran down Second Ave and turned right on E 3rd St. I rounded after him just in time to see him disappear inside the 8-story soup kitchen / men's shelter in the middle of that block. A few seconds later, his accomplice, coming from the opposite direction, ran up and he, too, darted inside with my brother in pursuit. I could see he was still carrying the white girl's purse, but we weren't going inside that place. There was a cop on the corner, so I ran over to him and explained the situation. The cop, with his badge and gun, was afraid to go in that soup kitchen looking for the criminals. He waited for back up, and then they all still refused to go inside. They had us ride around in a squad car for a while looking for the "perps", even though we all knew they were inside the men's shelter. I felt sorry for that girl and lost a lot of respect for those cops.

    There was a small, tight-knit Ukranian community nearby and the Hell's Angels had their clubhouse one block further east on 3rd St. One night, a Hell's Angel raped a Ukranian girl. The Ukranians formed a posse and trashed that clubhouse and beat the hell out of a bunch of Hell's Angels and found and killed the guy who raped the girl. They didn't put up with shit.

    Ah, good times....

    Re the girl getting mugged: I was a college student at Columbia a few years before that….I stopped by the English Department one morning and the (white) secretary was at her desk, she had trouble speaking to me because her jaw had been broken…same m.o., a car stopped near her while she was walking, a black guy jumped out, and without a word he punched her out and took her purse. The technique worked, she was dazed and in too much pain even to scream.

    If I had been operating a business in Manhattan back then, I would have gotten a firearm…the hell with the Sullivan Law (better to be tried by 12, etc.).

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Everyone admits the Sullivan Law was explicitly racist yet every liberal supports it.
  54. The Diana Ross concert was a seminal event in NYC history, ripping the mask off of the black community’s crime problem. Two years earlier Simon and Garfunkel had their reunion concert on the Great Lawn, and millions of people attended; as many as six million passed through the park during the day, close to the entire population of Manhattan. My wife (girlfriend then) and I attended and somehow met up with my brother and dozens of kids from our hometown in Jersey (I was living in the Bronx at the time). There was no violence. The crowd was mostly white and any ‘roving gangs’ of color would have been easily seen, isolated, arrested, or beaten. But Diana Ross’ show attracted a mostly black audience, and thus hiding in plain sight large gangs of black youths had a free hand, able to disappear anonymously in the crowd and reassemble whenever things got dicey. A few years later we had the Central Park jogger case, and the brutality of the crime elevated what had been happening in the park for years into a national story.

    • Replies: @JMcG
    Now that you mention it, I was at Live Aid in 1985. 100000 white people in scorching hot weather and not an incident of violence I can recall.
    , @ScarletNumber

    as many as six million passed through the park during the day, close to the entire population of Manhattan.
     
    The population of Manhattan was about 1.4 million.
  55. @Kronos
    What are the best films that captured NYC crime?

    1) Death Wish Series?
    2) Fort Apache?
    3) The French Connection?

    The “Bonfire of the Vanities” film was awful (I watched it) so it’s disqualified. But it has some imposition from the book.

    https://youtu.be/ZIz_RlNZZlg

    Mixed Blood from 1985 is a lot of fun.

  56. “anecdotes about the “good old days” of NYC, before the NYPD got their act together. ”

    Getting their act together:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mollen_Commission

    And even earlier (Shout out to Frank Serpico):
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knapp_Commission

    • Replies: @Bugg
    The Dowd documentary was dead on. NYPD had so many awful precincts a clique of crooked cops like his could do some serious damage. Probably a lot did without anyone caring or noticing. They could barely turn out a platoon on patrol most nights. To work in East NY, being drunk was not unexpected. The 75th Precinct detective squad's motto was "You give us 22 minutes, we'll give you a homicide". Sometimes it was busier than that. I dealt with Dowd professionally as a young ADA; he didn't look any drunker than anyone else on patrol at that time.

    Grew up and lived my entire life in the badwhite parts of Brooklyn and Queens, with cops, firefighters, Wall Streeters, Catholic school kids. Those areas are much fewer now. The idea in 1989 any sensible person would chose to live in Bushwick or Williamsburgh would be considered insane. I have a client, young badwhite, who saw an opportunity and took it. He now has some 15 properties worth millions rented to silly kids from Ohio and Minnesota, artisanal mayonnaise producers and skateboarders, who have no idea that without Guiliani and NYPD changing things dramatically they would not be here. There were other factors of course; abortion and crack giving way yo opioids. But the most impactful variable was NYPD. It can be so in the negative, which is happening right now.
  57. I’m kind of amazed that there were good and bad neighborhoods, with as big a subway system as NYC has, but I guess that was just police presence?

  58. People don’t remember that it was so bad in NYC that many people at the time cheered on Bernard Goetz? There is a whole group of movies that were made just around NYC crime, Death Wish, Fort Apache The Bronx etc.. It also inspired Escape from New York, which had the premise that it got so bad, they just made New York City into a giant prison. Could you imagine these movies being made today?

    • Replies: @Bragadocious
    I don't consider EFNY to be a New York movie. More of an LA director's revenge fantasy of what NYC was like. Not filmed in NYC, except for some throwaway footage. More scenes were filmed in Southern California than NYC. No one in the film has a NY accent. Not a bad flick overall, for what it is: a way for Southern Californian Kurt Russell to reinvent himself as a badass. But not a NY film.
    , @njguy73
    At first Goetz was lauded, but then he acted arrogant about the incident, and it was discovered that he made derogatory comments at a neighborhood watch meeting. That turned the public against him.
  59. @The Last Real Calvinist
    It's interesting to analyse the vocabulary and style of a 1985 urban crime story . .

    First, the headline to that story is direct, and in the active voice, i.e. 'Roving Gangs Rob Charity Walkers'.

    We get some fairly 'triggering' descriptions, e.g. 'packs of roving youths attacked and harassed scores of marchers' and 'scores of arriving marchers fell prey to youths who swarmed upon them'.

    The reporter also interviewed actual crime victims, who then provide further juicy details, e.g. 'They looked like they had been through a tornado' and 'he and others were made to run a virtual gantlet of young thugs'. (Extra kudos to the erstwhile NYT for using 'gantlet' instead of 'gauntlet'.)

    And yet, the passive tone that dominates today's crime news is already present in nascent pockets of infection. For example, the miscreants in question are 'youths', and the faux-meteorological construction 'Much of the violence occurred . . .' sets the pace for decades of euphemism and evasion to follow.

    And yet, even in 1985, no mention of the race of these ‘youths’, at least not in the passage that Steve excerpted.

  60. packs of roving youths attacked and harassed scores of marchers

    In the 1960s, the New York Times would still add an additional descriptor, as in this snippet from the archives:

    NEGROES SOUGHT IN JERSEY ATTACKS; 9 White Teen-Agers Beaten –Arrests Expected Soon

    Neptune: police say arrests are imminent in connection with series of attacks by roving bands of Negroes on white youths
    PRINT EDITION October 23, 1967

    News stories describing the race riots in the 1960s frequently used the phrase “roving bands of Negro youths,” but now we’re down to just “youths.” I think “bands” has been deemed pejorative.

  61. @Anonymous
    You know, it’s unfortunate that no one who lived in the seedier and more criminally parts of New York in that timeframe has ever, you know, talked much about it. Much less written a book or anything like that. Certainly not recently.

    You know, it’s unfortunate that no one who lived in the seedier and more criminally parts of New York in that timeframe has ever, you know, talked much about it. Much less written a book or anything like that. Certainly not recently.

    The second book in Edward St. Aubyn’s “Patrick Melrose” series — “Bad News” — does a good job of capturing the New York City hard drug scene in the 80s. The entire series is really quite good, though rather unsettling.

  62. @craig nelsen
    I moved to Avenue A in 1980 and it is true about Second Ave. Cabs frequently refused to take you past it, especially at night. You had to get out and walk the rest of the way in. I tended bar and, since closing time for (legal) bars was 4 a.m., the streets were usually dead by the time I got home with $20 in my wallet and $100 in my sock. The two long blocks between Ave A and Second Ave felt like twenty and it made sense to have a few drinks at an after hours club before heading home as dawn broke.

    I was mugged two or three times--quickly and efficiently. There wasn't even time for my heart to start racing. Much scarier were the racial attacks. They were a lot more volatile and dangerous. There were always more of them. They were primarily Puerto Rican and, one time, Chinese. I never saw whites attack anyone.

    In one-on-one fights with a POC, you could quickly become outnumbered as passing POC, completely ignorant of the circumstances, rushed to join their co-ethnic. There was only one time that I can remember that a white guy stepped up to keep the fight fair.

    My brother and I once heard a girl screaming and arrived just in time to see a big hulking black guy shuffling down the street in one direction and a Puerto Rican sprinting around the corner in the other direction. A white girl was standing on the sidewalk holding her bleeding face and crying. The black guy and the Puerto Rican had worked as a team to steal her purse. The black guy had walked up and punched her without warning right in the face and the Puerto Rican guy had used the shock to steal her purse and run off down St Marks Place. My brother took off after the Puerto Rican and I took off after the black guy. He ran down Second Ave and turned right on E 3rd St. I rounded after him just in time to see him disappear inside the 8-story soup kitchen / men's shelter in the middle of that block. A few seconds later, his accomplice, coming from the opposite direction, ran up and he, too, darted inside with my brother in pursuit. I could see he was still carrying the white girl's purse, but we weren't going inside that place. There was a cop on the corner, so I ran over to him and explained the situation. The cop, with his badge and gun, was afraid to go in that soup kitchen looking for the criminals. He waited for back up, and then they all still refused to go inside. They had us ride around in a squad car for a while looking for the "perps", even though we all knew they were inside the men's shelter. I felt sorry for that girl and lost a lot of respect for those cops.

    There was a small, tight-knit Ukranian community nearby and the Hell's Angels had their clubhouse one block further east on 3rd St. One night, a Hell's Angel raped a Ukranian girl. The Ukranians formed a posse and trashed that clubhouse and beat the hell out of a bunch of Hell's Angels and found and killed the guy who raped the girl. They didn't put up with shit.

    Ah, good times....

    I hope you have since learned that this type of macho white-knighting is stupid and can get you killed.

    How do you know she wasn’t a whore holding out on her pimp?

    Foolish behavior on your part.

    • Replies: @Alfa158
    Obviously you failed to read the post completely, so I’ll help you out by copying out the relevant passage and pasting it:
    “My brother and I once heard a girl screaming and arrived just in time to see a big hulking black guy shuffling down the street in one direction and a Puerto Rican sprinting around the corner in the other direction. A white girl was standing on the sidewalk holding her bleeding face and crying. The black guy and the Puerto Rican had worked as a team to steal her purse.”
    You’re welcome.
    , @TWS
    And thus, we have the society you and others like you have bequeathed us. May your chains lay lightly on you.
    , @Alden
    Pimps don’t live in homeless shelters. They live in their own apartments or in the projects wi dey mammas. And it’s one pimp, two to four or five girls, not 2 pimps 1 girl.
  63. @black sea
    I visited NYC for the first time in 1991 and stayed in Greenpoint, Brooklyn. The city seemed relatively safe to me -- and contra the stereotype -- the residents were friendly and helpful.

    The only smart ass we ran across was a transit cop.

    I visited NYC for the first time in 1991 and stayed in Greenpoint, Brooklyn. The city seemed relatively safe to me — and contra the stereotype — the residents were friendly and helpful.

    Greenpoint then had a run-down look — it still does — but parts of it were almost completely Polish, hence the safety. There’s still a remnant of that, but like so many other parts of NYC, Greenpoint is now gentrified hipster land, though you’ll still see old ladies in black stockings walking around.

  64. @The Alarmist

    For example, in the Greenwich Village area, the west side of Second Avenue was okay, but don’t cross Second Avenue! There were legendary Alphabet Avenues on the Lower East Side that few people I talked to had ever walked. There be dragons…
     
    I visited a friend who lived in NYC in the '00s, and took him to Benny's Burritos in Alphabet City, the Lower East side. He spent the entire time on high alert. This was the relatively gentrified Alphabet City post-Guiliani.

    When I first moved to NYC under General Dinkins, Alphabet City was a place you might want to avoid. One night, while hanging in King Tut's Wah Wah Hut with a babe named Chantal, dressed in a chain mail blouse, I realised my friend had disappeared, so I went went wandering into the homeless city called Thompkins Square Park to find him, where I found him shooting up with one of the local denizens.

    But that was child's play compared to having a dozen "youths" set upon me while I was jogging around the Central Park Reservoir on the "safe" Upper East Side.

    Those were some dark times in NYC indeed. Things got infinitely better under Guiliani, but all things must pass.

    Those were some dark times in NYC indeed. Things got infinitely better under Guiliani,

    And he was thanked for saving the city by the usual suspects by being called Adolph Guiliani, fascist police-state dictator, and various similar things. Of course, the Left likes to pretend this never happened, but yeah, it did. Trump is by far not the first “literal Hitler.”

    • Replies: @Harry Baldwin
    After the 9/11 attack, the left had to pretend it hadn't considered Giuliani literally Hitler.
  65. So ironic that the man who saved NYC from this is 25 years later now going to cause the longterm downfall of his party and permanent return of Democrat Party Rule. Which in turn will return our cities to 1960s-1980s decay. Insane.

  66. @eah
    17 youths were arrested ... roving bands ... a virtual gantlet of young thugs ... "we saw 35 or 40 kids – they were young, 12 to 16 years old ..."

    I see -- well, some things haven't changed, although back then they did have a different common understanding of the word "virtual".

    Fourth Employee Sues NYC Education Department For Anti-White Racism

    Under Carranza’s administration, O.E.A. leadership has normalized an approach that interrogates “whiteness,” defines the supposed homogeneous values of whites as “supremacist and toxic” and denies safety to Caucasians by mocking them as white and “fragile” if they push back in any way when, according to the law, they clearly should too be protected.

    The result of this has been the creation of an unlawful, unsafe and hostile work environment where name-calling and racialized accusations toward white supervisors are condoned. Furthermore, discrimination and retaliation toward white employees — especially white dissenters like me — is intentional.
     

    They put Castanza in charge of OEA ?

    Thought he wanted go into architecture…

  67. @Bill P
    The most poignant memory I have of visiting NYC is of my mom telling me to give her my wallet for safekeeping, putting it in her purse and then promptly getting her purse snatched.

    I was angry with my mother, the thief and NYC in general.

    That was in '86. Now that I think about it, I still hold a grudge against that city.

    A detail I remember from the early 80s: Cars parked along the street with hand-lettered signs affixed to the inside of the driver’s and passenger’s-side windows reading
    “NO RADIO!!! NOTHING OF VALUE IN CAR!!”
    This may have slightly reduced the incidence of smash-and-grabs in Gotham.

  68. @craig nelsen
    I moved to Avenue A in 1980 and it is true about Second Ave. Cabs frequently refused to take you past it, especially at night. You had to get out and walk the rest of the way in. I tended bar and, since closing time for (legal) bars was 4 a.m., the streets were usually dead by the time I got home with $20 in my wallet and $100 in my sock. The two long blocks between Ave A and Second Ave felt like twenty and it made sense to have a few drinks at an after hours club before heading home as dawn broke.

    I was mugged two or three times--quickly and efficiently. There wasn't even time for my heart to start racing. Much scarier were the racial attacks. They were a lot more volatile and dangerous. There were always more of them. They were primarily Puerto Rican and, one time, Chinese. I never saw whites attack anyone.

    In one-on-one fights with a POC, you could quickly become outnumbered as passing POC, completely ignorant of the circumstances, rushed to join their co-ethnic. There was only one time that I can remember that a white guy stepped up to keep the fight fair.

    My brother and I once heard a girl screaming and arrived just in time to see a big hulking black guy shuffling down the street in one direction and a Puerto Rican sprinting around the corner in the other direction. A white girl was standing on the sidewalk holding her bleeding face and crying. The black guy and the Puerto Rican had worked as a team to steal her purse. The black guy had walked up and punched her without warning right in the face and the Puerto Rican guy had used the shock to steal her purse and run off down St Marks Place. My brother took off after the Puerto Rican and I took off after the black guy. He ran down Second Ave and turned right on E 3rd St. I rounded after him just in time to see him disappear inside the 8-story soup kitchen / men's shelter in the middle of that block. A few seconds later, his accomplice, coming from the opposite direction, ran up and he, too, darted inside with my brother in pursuit. I could see he was still carrying the white girl's purse, but we weren't going inside that place. There was a cop on the corner, so I ran over to him and explained the situation. The cop, with his badge and gun, was afraid to go in that soup kitchen looking for the criminals. He waited for back up, and then they all still refused to go inside. They had us ride around in a squad car for a while looking for the "perps", even though we all knew they were inside the men's shelter. I felt sorry for that girl and lost a lot of respect for those cops.

    There was a small, tight-knit Ukranian community nearby and the Hell's Angels had their clubhouse one block further east on 3rd St. One night, a Hell's Angel raped a Ukranian girl. The Ukranians formed a posse and trashed that clubhouse and beat the hell out of a bunch of Hell's Angels and found and killed the guy who raped the girl. They didn't put up with shit.

    Ah, good times....

    Great anecdotes.

    Vigilante justice is not ideal, but the story of how the Ukranian community reacted to the rape of one of their own indicates a much healthier community than ours are today.

    Recall the reaction to the Boston Marthon bombers on the loose: the entire metropolis was put on lockdown with people cowering in fear in their homes with the doors locked and bolted (think of the inspiration that must give aspiring terrorists: all they’ve got to do is set off a few pressure cooker bombs and they can get an entire metropolis to shut down). We have ceded too much control to the government in the role of protection. It emasculates men by depriving them of their protector role, and so when the time comes, men no longer know how to react, and just wait for law enforcement to arrive. The other extreme is not ideal either, where patriarchs take care of all the protection, which results in feuds and vengeance killings, but we’ve gone too far in the opposite direction.

    • Agree: prosa123
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Ukrainians vs. Angels was an all-white affair so nobody cares, then or now. However if a mob of whites launched such an attack on some minority group there would be hell to pay.
    , @Achmed E. Newman
    I couldn't agree more! (Literally, cause the button's grayed-out.)

    Great comment, Ian.
  69. “For example, in the Greenwich Village area, the west side of Second Avenue was okay, but don’t cross Second Avenue!”

    Steve, either your memory or your informant are/were playing tricks on you. Second Ave. is no where near GV. Did you/he mean Seventh Avenue? I would think the whole of Second Av. would have been off limits. At the time that would be the Lower East Side, not quite hip’d up into the East Village via artists and musicians, now totally gentrified and un-affordable to any but Russian oligarchs.

    • Replies: @Woodsie
    They'd started calling it the East Village by then, and easy enough for a non-native to wander over to Astor Place and still think they were in 'the village'.
  70. @The Last Real Calvinist
    It's interesting to analyse the vocabulary and style of a 1985 urban crime story . .

    First, the headline to that story is direct, and in the active voice, i.e. 'Roving Gangs Rob Charity Walkers'.

    We get some fairly 'triggering' descriptions, e.g. 'packs of roving youths attacked and harassed scores of marchers' and 'scores of arriving marchers fell prey to youths who swarmed upon them'.

    The reporter also interviewed actual crime victims, who then provide further juicy details, e.g. 'They looked like they had been through a tornado' and 'he and others were made to run a virtual gantlet of young thugs'. (Extra kudos to the erstwhile NYT for using 'gantlet' instead of 'gauntlet'.)

    And yet, the passive tone that dominates today's crime news is already present in nascent pockets of infection. For example, the miscreants in question are 'youths', and the faux-meteorological construction 'Much of the violence occurred . . .' sets the pace for decades of euphemism and evasion to follow.

    It was a transitional style, bridging pre-1965 realism and today’s gauzy impressionism.

  71. 1990 cover story for TIME magazine on how much NYC sucks-

    http://content.time.com/time/magazine/0,9263,7601900917,00.html

    The Decline Of New York
    A surge of brutal killings has shaken the Big Apple to its core. Frightened residents now wonder if Gotham’s treasures are worth the hassle — and the risk.

    • Replies: @Abe
    Here’s the content of the full article:

    http://content.time.com/time/subscriber/article/0,33009,971142,00.html

    Some choice quotes:


    A surge of drugs and violent crime that government officials seem utterly unable to combat. Eight other major cities have higher homicide rates, but New York's carnage dwarfs theirs in absolute terms. Last year 1,905 people were murdered in New York, more than twice as many as in Los Angeles. In the first five months of this year, 888 homicides were committed, setting a pace that will result in a new record if it goes unchecked.

    The victims have been of all races, all classes, all ages. This summer, in one eight-day period, four children were killed by stray gunshots as they played on the sidewalks, toddled in their grandmother's kitchens or slept soundly in their own beds. Six others have been wounded since late June. So many have died that a new slang term has been coined to describe them: "mushrooms," as vulnerable as tiny plants that spring up underfoot.

    Then last week came the murder of 22-year-old Brian Watkins, an avid tennis buff from Provo, Utah, on a subway platform in midtown Manhattan. Over the years, his family frequently made a pilgrimage to watch the U.S. Open tennis tournament in Queens. En route to dinner at Tavern on the Green, a popular tourist attraction, the family was attacked by a group of eight black and Hispanic youths. After one of the gang cut open his father's pocket to get at his money and punched his mother in the face, Brian jumped to his parents' defense. He was stabbed with a four-inch butterfly knife and died 40 minutes later at St. Vincent's Hospital.
     

  72. I am not a seasoned world traveler but I can tell you my most salient memory of visiting Manhattan is anger and violence. It is the only place I have ever been like that. Within 24 hours of arrival I witnessed two fistfight / grappling matches with scores of oblivious witnesses and more shouting matches than I could count.

    People really think New York is a great place to live?

    I looked at Epstein’s house on 71st St yesterday on google street view. That block of central park had homeless tents solidly packed together on the sidewalk when the google camera car drove by.

  73. @Dissident

    It’s interesting to analyse the vocabulary and style of a 1985 urban crime story..
     
    Indeed it is.

    What about this one: (emphasis mine)


    ''Two 19-year-old girls were walking along when a herd of about 100 youths - one of the roving bands - came running by,'' said Lieut. James Keneally of the Central Park Precinct.
     
    When was the last time a police lieutenant could get away with using a word such as herd to describe youths? Hasn't it been some years or even decades now that such usage has been considered racist, dehumanizing language?

    a herd of about 100 youths

    Pack (which appears earlier) is more apt.

    I might say herd for the pack’s female auxiliary.

    • Agree: Dissident
    • Replies: @Kolya Krassotkin
    "Herd" is the correct word to use for a pack of water buffalo.
  74. @Dan Hayes
    Steve,

    The good old days in NYC are due to abruptly reappear on January 1, 2020 with the abrogation or lessening of many criminal penalties and the virtual elimination of bail.

    They’re not eliminating bail; they’re eliminating pretrial detention.

    • Replies: @Dan Hayes
    ben tillman:

    Under Albany's bail reform laws of April 2019 as reported by the Daily News (September 28, 2019):

    Bail for misdemeanors is eliminated (except for sex crimes and violating orders of protection).

    Bail and pretrial detention is eliminated for most non-violent felonies (except for witness tampering, murder conspiracy, domestic violence cases, crimes against kids, sex crimes and terror cases).

    Bail and detention is eliminated for all Class A drug felonies (except for major drug trafficking).
  75. When I was going to Columbia LS in the mid 1990s, 96th St up to 116th, where the school was, was considered “no-go”. But it seemed like another block or two opened up every year. 110th St was the last one to get good, well after I graduated obviously. Morningside Park used to be filled with trash and needles. That went away too.

    One reason liberalism has come back, apart from demographic change, is that people in cities like NYC and Washington just aren’t afraid anymore. Disasters are constantly predicted, but so far they aren’t materializing.

  76. before the NYPD got their act together

    It’s a myth that the NYPD suddenly “got their act together” in the 90s. I’ve said this before, but what really happened is that tens of thousands of Puerto Ricans left the city. And many more whites moved back in. That brought crime down. The NYPD hasn’t changed much over the years. They’re never there when you need them, won’t help you when you’re mugged and basically consider any interaction with law-abiding citizens as a massive headache. I mean really, does anyone think that cops suddenly became Marvel Comic action heroes beginning in 1993?

    • Replies: @RockinSockin
    So true! Excellent summaryof the corrupt useless way overpaid NYPD
    , @Alden
    I remember a story in Time or Newsweek about the relocation of Puerto Ricans from NYC to small towns in Pennsylvania. Their welfare benefits were just transferred to Pennsylvania.

    The story was mostly about the evil White native Pennsylvanians being dubious about their wonderful vibrant new neighbors.

    So dump the NYC trash somewhere else.
    , @keypusher
    I mean really, does anyone think that cops suddenly became Marvel Comic action heroes beginning in 1993?

    No, nobody thinks anything so idiotic. But lots of people who live here think they reformed and improved over a period of years.

    I’ve said this before, but what really happened is that tens of thousands of Puerto Ricans left the city. And many more whites moved back in.

    Did you provide any evidence when you said it before? Because that sounds like 100% bullshit to me. There are more hispanics in Washington Heights than ever, but it went from 100 murders a year to three anyway.
  77. @PiltdownMan

    I mean, I’m sure Uyghurs are not bad people, but a stitch in time saves nine, and a lot of good happens from protecting cultural homogeneity. Omelettes and broken eggs.

     

    The distance from Beijing to Hotan or Urumqi is about 2,500 miles. The Chinese Communist party is far from the Han Chinese homelands, and is in the Uyghurs' face. As for cultural homogeneity, it is being imposed from the outside by the Han Chinese and a Communist Party whose record of cultural sensitivity was established during the Cultural Revolution, i.e. they are barbarians, with neither a sense of history nor of culture.

    Which explains why a government would deliberately demolish 800 year old buildings, such as these two structurally sound and stunning examples of 13th century Central Asian architecture that were razed to the ground in the last two years.

    https://i.imgur.com/HQB0ncz.jpg

    https://i.imgur.com/QlzD88l.jpg

    They (Chinese) must have been triggered in a metaphoric fashion by CSA monuments.

  78. @PiltdownMan
    I lived in Morningside Heights in Manhattan in the early to mid 1980s, and one of the things that visitors from elsewhere were cautioned against was missing the stop at Columbia University and overshooting to 125th Street, which was in Harlem. It was pretty much understood that a white person who did that stood a pretty significant chance of being mugged or shaken down at that stop, as they tried to make their way from the uptown side platform to the downtown side to come back.

    The more northern areas of Central Park were also a no go area, and the doing a full circuit around the reservoir, especially after mid-afternoon or so, was considered to be a risky proposition. Aside from the Columbia University area, Morningside Heights, it was pretty much understood that 110th Street was the northern boundary for safe streets. I remember the crime statistic much spoken about in those days—Times Square subway station averaged about 40 muggings a night.

    New York City was indeed an edgy kind of place, but as a resident, you just internalized all the rules and cautions, and it was a pretty good life there. Outsiders, however, from the suburbs, were terrified of the place. My brother-in-law, who lived in New Jersey, flat out refused to drive into the city until the late 1980s. And the couple of times he did visit, there was no way I could persuade him to visit CBGB in the Bowery, despite his enlightened interest in punk and new wave.

    http://www.bobgruen.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/R-230_CBGB_Outside1977_Gruen1.jpg

    I knew that New York too. Isn’t it amazing, what detailed specialized geographical knowledge we mastered then? Maybe we were drawing on a survival skill that evolved long ago when our little hunting bands ranged widely while needing to keep in mind where the rival bands’ territories were.

    I spent the summer of 1978 in France and the most striking thing wasn’t the cheese or the cathedrals, but the freedom; I could walk anywhere I wanted, any time. In a way, Rouen was bigger than New York City!

    • Replies: @El Dato

    I knew that New York too. Isn’t it amazing, what detailed specialized geographical knowledge we mastered then? Maybe we were drawing on a survival skill that evolved long ago when our little hunting bands ranged widely while needing to keep in mind where the rival bands’ territories were.
     
    If you have ever played open-world vidya with lots of roaming NPCs, you know this is true.
    , @Paleo Liberal
    Yes, that was very true.

    I lived in 4 of the 5 boroughs of NYC in those days. All except Staten Island. There were boundaries one rarely crossed, especially at night.

    It was amazing how quickly some neighborhoods could change. I remember walking around the Grand Concourse in the Bronx in the mid 1980s. There were 7 burned out buildings I counted on the Grand Concourse itself, but mostly the street was okay but don’t ever get even half a block away. Even half a block away looked like Hiroshima after the A-bomb.

    I taught at a college on the Grand Concourse for a while in the mid-late 1990s. It had completely changed. It was a thriving Hispanic neighborhood, with no burned out buildings anywhere close to the Grand Concourse.
  79. @slumber_j

    The good old days in NYC are due to abruptly reappear on January 1, 2020 with the abrogation or lessening of many criminal penalties and the virtual elimination of bail.
     
    And we've just seen how nicely that turned out for a bunch of homeless guys murdered in cold blood:

    https://nypost.com/2019/10/07/the-two-big-breaks-that-left-chinatown-killer-randy-santos-free-to-roam-the-streets/

    Founded in 2007, the Bronx Freedom Fund provides bail of up to $2,000 for defendants charged with misdemeanors to help them “avoid the dire consequences of pretrial detention,” according to its most recent IRS filing.

    It receives 100% of its funding from unspecified “private donations and foundations” and had just over $1 million on hand as of July 30, 2018, the tax-exempt group’s returns
    show.

    Neither the fund’s director, Elena Weissman, nor its chairman and co-founder, David Feige, returned requests for comment.

    It’s just another paycheck generator.

  80. @International Jew
    I knew that New York too. Isn't it amazing, what detailed specialized geographical knowledge we mastered then? Maybe we were drawing on a survival skill that evolved long ago when our little hunting bands ranged widely while needing to keep in mind where the rival bands' territories were.

    I spent the summer of 1978 in France and the most striking thing wasn't the cheese or the cathedrals, but the freedom; I could walk anywhere I wanted, any time. In a way, Rouen was bigger than New York City!

    I knew that New York too. Isn’t it amazing, what detailed specialized geographical knowledge we mastered then? Maybe we were drawing on a survival skill that evolved long ago when our little hunting bands ranged widely while needing to keep in mind where the rival bands’ territories were.

    If you have ever played open-world vidya with lots of roaming NPCs, you know this is true.

  81. @The Last Real Calvinist
    It's interesting to analyse the vocabulary and style of a 1985 urban crime story . .

    First, the headline to that story is direct, and in the active voice, i.e. 'Roving Gangs Rob Charity Walkers'.

    We get some fairly 'triggering' descriptions, e.g. 'packs of roving youths attacked and harassed scores of marchers' and 'scores of arriving marchers fell prey to youths who swarmed upon them'.

    The reporter also interviewed actual crime victims, who then provide further juicy details, e.g. 'They looked like they had been through a tornado' and 'he and others were made to run a virtual gantlet of young thugs'. (Extra kudos to the erstwhile NYT for using 'gantlet' instead of 'gauntlet'.)

    And yet, the passive tone that dominates today's crime news is already present in nascent pockets of infection. For example, the miscreants in question are 'youths', and the faux-meteorological construction 'Much of the violence occurred . . .' sets the pace for decades of euphemism and evasion to follow.

    Youths always reminds me of My Cousin Vinny where Vinny is telling the judge in Alabama about “youts” and the judge doesn’t understand what a “yout” is.

    In the parlance of the time, youths were generally understood to be a euphemism for black or Hispanic (in those days Puerto Rican or Dominican) male teenagers. The NYT was already woke enough not to actually identify them as such, but everyone knew what was meant by the term.

    It’s notable BTW that all this mayhem happened in broad daylight in the middle of the afternoon.

    Mayor Bloomberg was using the term “wilding” as late as 2010 but the Gray Lady sniffily pronounced the usage to be “somewhat archaic” but did not call him “racist” on it.

    https://schott.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/04/08/wilding/

    • Replies: @Dan Hayes
    Jack D:

    "the Community" was and is another euphemism for Black & Hispanic "rent a mob pressure groups" rounded up and led by professional agitators such as Reverends Al and Jesse.

    And the beat goes on (and on, and on, and on...!).
    , @Lot
    “Wilding” is still used by older African Americans on twitter and Facebook to describe these types of random stupid crimes.
  82. If only NYC residents could break the mental shackles that prevent them from becoming proper armed civilians:

    And VOTE in people who support “Right to Keep and Bear Arms”:

    • Replies: @slumber_j
    Okay, I own a lot of guns, mostly inherited. Some of them are in my Manhattan apartment, but they're so old and useless to be legally okay. I have others--mostly the functional ones--in a house I own in Connecticut.

    So I have no problem with people owning guns, and I think the Second Amendment means what it says. But here's the question: is it actually a good idea for a lot of people to have guns in a place like New York City? What would that be like?

    Again: my question isn't what the Constitution allows, nor whether people should have guns.
  83. @ben tillman
    They're not eliminating bail; they're eliminating pretrial detention.

    ben tillman:

    Under Albany’s bail reform laws of April 2019 as reported by the Daily News (September 28, 2019):

    Bail for misdemeanors is eliminated (except for sex crimes and violating orders of protection).

    Bail and pretrial detention is eliminated for most non-violent felonies (except for witness tampering, murder conspiracy, domestic violence cases, crimes against kids, sex crimes and terror cases).

    Bail and detention is eliminated for all Class A drug felonies (except for major drug trafficking).

    • Replies: @Charon

    Except for witness tampering, murder conspiracy, domestic violence cases, crimes against kids, sex crimes and terror cases
     
    Aww, what's a little witness tampering and murder conspiracy among friends? This time they've gone too far, I tell ya!

    P.S. Is there anyone on this forum who didn't live in NYC in the
    'Good Old Days'?!
    , @ben tillman
    That's not eliminating bail; it's obviating bail.
  84. Meanwhile, AI news:

    Oh dear… AI models used to flag hate speech online are, er, racist against black people: Tweets written in African-American English slang more likely to be considered offensive

    A paper from computer scientists from the University of Washington, Carnegie Mellon University, and the Allen Institute for Artificial Intelligence, found that machines were more likely to flag tweets from black people than white people as offensive. It all boils down to the subtle differences in language. African-American English (AAE), often spoken in urban communities, is peppered with racial slang and profanities.

    But even if they contain what appear to be offensive words, the message itself often isn’t abusive. For example, the tweet “I saw him yesterday” is scored as 6 per cent toxic, but it suddenly skyrockets to 95 per cent for the comment “I saw his ass yesterday”. The word ass may be crude, but when used in that context it’s not aggressive at all.

    The study provides yet another reminder that AI models don’t understand the world enough to have common sense. Tools like Perspective API often fail when faced with subtle nuances in human language or even incorrect spellings.

    Forum wokeys now trying to explain away that “bitch ass nigga cracker needs to get educated hard” is totally okay when used in a black in-group but totally not when used in a white in-group.

  85. @PiltdownMan
    I lived in Morningside Heights in Manhattan in the early to mid 1980s, and one of the things that visitors from elsewhere were cautioned against was missing the stop at Columbia University and overshooting to 125th Street, which was in Harlem. It was pretty much understood that a white person who did that stood a pretty significant chance of being mugged or shaken down at that stop, as they tried to make their way from the uptown side platform to the downtown side to come back.

    The more northern areas of Central Park were also a no go area, and the doing a full circuit around the reservoir, especially after mid-afternoon or so, was considered to be a risky proposition. Aside from the Columbia University area, Morningside Heights, it was pretty much understood that 110th Street was the northern boundary for safe streets. I remember the crime statistic much spoken about in those days—Times Square subway station averaged about 40 muggings a night.

    New York City was indeed an edgy kind of place, but as a resident, you just internalized all the rules and cautions, and it was a pretty good life there. Outsiders, however, from the suburbs, were terrified of the place. My brother-in-law, who lived in New Jersey, flat out refused to drive into the city until the late 1980s. And the couple of times he did visit, there was no way I could persuade him to visit CBGB in the Bowery, despite his enlightened interest in punk and new wave.

    http://www.bobgruen.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/R-230_CBGB_Outside1977_Gruen1.jpg

    I lived up there then too and you never, never went into Morningside Park. But I have to tell you that 125th Street was actually OK, at least in the daytime. I had a summer job with IBM in Westchester and I would take the Hudson line from the 125th St. Station so I got to know 125th st. pretty well. No one ever bothered me. There were actually some interesting businesses up there. There was a live poultry market (they would kill and dress it for you). There was a store that sold Fuller Brush products – I still have the dust mop that I bought there – their stuff lasted forever.

    Mrs. Eshad Ali had an Indian restaurant by that name on 125th St. She made the best aloo paratha that I have ever had to this day. Mrs. Ali was an African American woman, elderly at the time that I knew her and Mr. Ali was dead. Mr. Ali had been a Bengali Muslim sailor who jumped ship in the ’30s and was one of the few Indians in America at that point. The only place he could find acceptance was in Harlem where his dark skin did not stand out and he opened a small Indian restaurant. He was ashamed that he married a Negro and told everyone that his wife was just his cleaning lady – Mrs. Ali told me this story without any guile or bitterness. After he died, she inherited the restaurant so she got the last laugh. She had learned all of Mr. Ali’s recipes and techniques and was a great Indian cook. She didn’t try to fuse it with African American cuisine – it was just straight up Indian food cooked by an elderly American black woman.

    • Replies: @Charon

    The only place he could find acceptance was in Harlem where his dark skin did not stand out
     
    Oh please. My middle school in suburban Pennsylvania had several subcontinent Indians and they fit in just fine. One was even a good friend of mine. Of course this was the 70s and maybe you're talking about the 40s.
  86. @PiltdownMan

    I mean, I’m sure Uyghurs are not bad people, but a stitch in time saves nine, and a lot of good happens from protecting cultural homogeneity. Omelettes and broken eggs.

     

    The distance from Beijing to Hotan or Urumqi is about 2,500 miles. The Chinese Communist party is far from the Han Chinese homelands, and is in the Uyghurs' face. As for cultural homogeneity, it is being imposed from the outside by the Han Chinese and a Communist Party whose record of cultural sensitivity was established during the Cultural Revolution, i.e. they are barbarians, with neither a sense of history nor of culture.

    Which explains why a government would deliberately demolish 800 year old buildings, such as these two structurally sound and stunning examples of 13th century Central Asian architecture that were razed to the ground in the last two years.

    https://i.imgur.com/HQB0ncz.jpg

    https://i.imgur.com/QlzD88l.jpg

    Defiling and demolishing their monuments; disparaging and delegitimizing their heroes. Thus does an occupying power demoralize and denigrate a subject population.

    Something awfully familiar about this.

    • Agree: HammerJack
  87. @Dan Hayes
    ben tillman:

    Under Albany's bail reform laws of April 2019 as reported by the Daily News (September 28, 2019):

    Bail for misdemeanors is eliminated (except for sex crimes and violating orders of protection).

    Bail and pretrial detention is eliminated for most non-violent felonies (except for witness tampering, murder conspiracy, domestic violence cases, crimes against kids, sex crimes and terror cases).

    Bail and detention is eliminated for all Class A drug felonies (except for major drug trafficking).

    Except for witness tampering, murder conspiracy, domestic violence cases, crimes against kids, sex crimes and terror cases

    Aww, what’s a little witness tampering and murder conspiracy among friends? This time they’ve gone too far, I tell ya!

    P.S. Is there anyone on this forum who didn’t live in NYC in the
    ‘Good Old Days’?!

    • Agree: Dan Hayes
    • Replies: @Old Palo Altan
    P.S. Is there anyone on this forum who didn’t live in NYC in the
    ‘Good Old Days’?!


    Striking isn't it?

    Even I, fervently loyal Californian that I am, lived there at the very end of that period, during the Dinkin's mayorality.

    I have to say that I loved every moment of my time there, and noticed very little, indeed nothing, of the horrors most everybody else here recounts. I was living on Lexington, a block south of the Chrysler building - not, in other words, in a wildly salubrious neighborhood. Nevertheless I walked everywhere and never felt uncomfortable or unsafe. I did of course avoid Harlem, and generally anything north of 96th street, although I once walked north and west and partially through Central Park to reach an appointment on Riverside drive near Columbia. When I arrived my hosts asked what the taxi had cost. They nearly screamed with terror when I told them how I had got there, but I just shrugged, mildly amused.

    The architecture, the crowds, the food, the concerts (classical only of course) - it was all electrifying, and every day promised (and delivered) new horizons.

    I would like to think that all of that is still available but, and who can overlook it, in the end the egalitarian cancer consumes everything it fastens upon. Dinkins was simply an incompetent, but Di Blasio is that very cancer, personified and gluttonous.
    , @Dan Hayes
    Charon:

    I am always surprised (pleasantly) by the number of NYC respondents. Also Southern Californians and Chicago-landers, perhaps due to Steve's residencies.
    , @njguy73

    P.S. Is there anyone on this forum who didn’t live in NYC in the ‘Good Old Days’?!

     

    I didn't. I was living in NJ.

    I did have relatives in the city, and my dad worked there, so I'd go there often.

    Graffiti-ridden subways. Garbage piled up on the street. Porn shops everywhere. Headlines in the Post about murder and scandal.

    Excuse me, it's getting a little dusty in here.
  88. @Jack D
    Youths always reminds me of My Cousin Vinny where Vinny is telling the judge in Alabama about "youts" and the judge doesn't understand what a "yout" is.

    In the parlance of the time, youths were generally understood to be a euphemism for black or Hispanic (in those days Puerto Rican or Dominican) male teenagers. The NYT was already woke enough not to actually identify them as such, but everyone knew what was meant by the term.

    It's notable BTW that all this mayhem happened in broad daylight in the middle of the afternoon.

    Mayor Bloomberg was using the term "wilding" as late as 2010 but the Gray Lady sniffily pronounced the usage to be "somewhat archaic" but did not call him "racist" on it.

    https://schott.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/04/08/wilding/

    Jack D:

    “the Community” was and is another euphemism for Black & Hispanic “rent a mob pressure groups” rounded up and led by professional agitators such as Reverends Al and Jesse.

    And the beat goes on (and on, and on, and on…!).

    • Replies: @Paleo Liberal
    “The community “ helped put Dinkins in office, and did more than their share to get him defeated for re-election.

    The unspoken assumption among many white liberals, such as myself, is that Dinkins would give some positions of power to “community leaders”, but in return they would keep the “community “ from rioting.

    Instead, there were some minor pogroms against Jews and Koreans by the “community”, some led by Dinkins allies.

    There were only three times in my life I ever voted for a Republican. The first time was when Dinkins ran for re-election. I disliked Giuliani, but he was a major step up from Dinkins. So I voted for Giuliani. No apologies, no regrets.

    To show how much Dinkins destroyed his base— his percentage of the black vote went up from 90% in his first election to 95% when he ran for re-election. The percentage of white voters decreased in those four years. But, Dinkins won a close one the first time, and lost a close one the second time. Dinkins lost support among whites (especially Jews), Hispanics, and Asians (especially Koreans). The Italians were always behind Giuliani.

  89. @Jack D
    I lived up there then too and you never, never went into Morningside Park. But I have to tell you that 125th Street was actually OK, at least in the daytime. I had a summer job with IBM in Westchester and I would take the Hudson line from the 125th St. Station so I got to know 125th st. pretty well. No one ever bothered me. There were actually some interesting businesses up there. There was a live poultry market (they would kill and dress it for you). There was a store that sold Fuller Brush products - I still have the dust mop that I bought there - their stuff lasted forever.

    Mrs. Eshad Ali had an Indian restaurant by that name on 125th St. She made the best aloo paratha that I have ever had to this day. Mrs. Ali was an African American woman, elderly at the time that I knew her and Mr. Ali was dead. Mr. Ali had been a Bengali Muslim sailor who jumped ship in the '30s and was one of the few Indians in America at that point. The only place he could find acceptance was in Harlem where his dark skin did not stand out and he opened a small Indian restaurant. He was ashamed that he married a Negro and told everyone that his wife was just his cleaning lady - Mrs. Ali told me this story without any guile or bitterness. After he died, she inherited the restaurant so she got the last laugh. She had learned all of Mr. Ali's recipes and techniques and was a great Indian cook. She didn't try to fuse it with African American cuisine - it was just straight up Indian food cooked by an elderly American black woman.

    The only place he could find acceptance was in Harlem where his dark skin did not stand out

    Oh please. My middle school in suburban Pennsylvania had several subcontinent Indians and they fit in just fine. One was even a good friend of mine. Of course this was the 70s and maybe you’re talking about the 40s.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    Yes, the '40s. Most of us can't remember pre-1965 America where non-European immigrants were vanishingly rare. There was little or no quota for places like India so the only Indians were ship jumpers and such like this guy.
  90. @slumber_j

    The good old days in NYC are due to abruptly reappear on January 1, 2020 with the abrogation or lessening of many criminal penalties and the virtual elimination of bail.
     
    And we've just seen how nicely that turned out for a bunch of homeless guys murdered in cold blood:

    https://nypost.com/2019/10/07/the-two-big-breaks-that-left-chinatown-killer-randy-santos-free-to-roam-the-streets/

    “Santos spent nearly three weeks in jail before the Bronx Freedom Fund bailed him out…

    Founded in 2007, the Bronx Freedom Fund provides bail of up to $2,000 for defendants charged with misdemeanors to help them “avoid the dire consequences of pretrial detention,” according to its most recent IRS filing.

    It receives 100% of its funding from unspecified “private donations and foundations” and had just over $1 million on hand as of July 30, 2018, the tax-exempt group’s returns show.

    Neither the fund’s director, Elena Weissman, nor its chairman and co-founder, David Feige, returned requests for comment.”

    I think if you provide bail for someone and they skip out, you should be required to take their place. You should also be civilly and criminally liable for any acts that they commit while out on bail. By providing bail, you are vouching that this person is not a danger to society and will appear for trial. $2,000 is nothing (except to an indigent criminal – that was a feature and not a bug) and now they aren’t even going to bother with that anymore. Crime is going to rise UNEXPECTEDLY, even INEXPLICABLY in New York once this gets going.

    • Agree: slumber_j
    • Replies: @Dan Hayes
    Jack D:

    Surprise, surprise! The Kennedy family and one or more of their sham foundations are major financial underwriters of one or more of these do gooder bail release outfits!
    , @ScarletNumber

    By providing bail, you are vouching that this person is not a danger to society and will appear for trial.
     
    This isn't true
  91. I remember that ruckus at the Diana Ross concert. Made the national news at the time.

  92. @Altai
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_JrH5_NliF4

    If only they had made the pimp white, it would have been perfect.

  93. @PiltdownMan
    I lived in Morningside Heights in Manhattan in the early to mid 1980s, and one of the things that visitors from elsewhere were cautioned against was missing the stop at Columbia University and overshooting to 125th Street, which was in Harlem. It was pretty much understood that a white person who did that stood a pretty significant chance of being mugged or shaken down at that stop, as they tried to make their way from the uptown side platform to the downtown side to come back.

    The more northern areas of Central Park were also a no go area, and the doing a full circuit around the reservoir, especially after mid-afternoon or so, was considered to be a risky proposition. Aside from the Columbia University area, Morningside Heights, it was pretty much understood that 110th Street was the northern boundary for safe streets. I remember the crime statistic much spoken about in those days—Times Square subway station averaged about 40 muggings a night.

    New York City was indeed an edgy kind of place, but as a resident, you just internalized all the rules and cautions, and it was a pretty good life there. Outsiders, however, from the suburbs, were terrified of the place. My brother-in-law, who lived in New Jersey, flat out refused to drive into the city until the late 1980s. And the couple of times he did visit, there was no way I could persuade him to visit CBGB in the Bowery, despite his enlightened interest in punk and new wave.

    http://www.bobgruen.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/R-230_CBGB_Outside1977_Gruen1.jpg

    My brother went to Columbia in the mid-late 1990s. The first thing everyone was told was never, ever, under any circumstances go inside Morningside Park. Ever. Don’t even think about it.

    In the late 70s he and some friends moved into a building on 122 st. They were large fellows, good for the initial gentrification. That building was mostly black families. The building was owned by one of the worst slumlords in the city — Jewish Theological Seminary. Once there was a fire in the building. The landlord didn’t care. At one point his roommate’s mother called up the Seminary and said: “as a Jew, I am shocked”. Repairs came quickly.

    I do remember getting off the train at 125 st, even after midnight. I was a little over 6’, and my brother was 6’4”, and we were both young and broke.

    • Replies: @kaganovitch
    The building was owned by one of the worst slumlords in the city — Jewish Theological Seminary

    Do tell. I never heard this before. Did they make the papers ? These are the same people who go around weeping tikkun olam tears on every Orthodox transgression.
    , @Dan Hayes
    Paleo Liberal:

    At the 96th Street subway stop there was a public address announcement against inadvertently continuing on the 7th Avenue Line - essentially warning against journeying into Harlem's deepest, darkest nether world!
    , @Peterike
    “ The building was owned by one of the worst slumlords in the city — Jewish Theological Seminary”

    Some things never change.
  94. @eah
    17 youths were arrested ... roving bands ... a virtual gantlet of young thugs ... "we saw 35 or 40 kids – they were young, 12 to 16 years old ..."

    I see -- well, some things haven't changed, although back then they did have a different common understanding of the word "virtual".

    Fourth Employee Sues NYC Education Department For Anti-White Racism

    Under Carranza’s administration, O.E.A. leadership has normalized an approach that interrogates “whiteness,” defines the supposed homogeneous values of whites as “supremacist and toxic” and denies safety to Caucasians by mocking them as white and “fragile” if they push back in any way when, according to the law, they clearly should too be protected.

    The result of this has been the creation of an unlawful, unsafe and hostile work environment where name-calling and racialized accusations toward white supervisors are condoned. Furthermore, discrimination and retaliation toward white employees — especially white dissenters like me — is intentional.
     

    Under Carranza’s administration, O.E.A. leadership has normalized an approach that interrogates “whiteness,” defines the supposed homogeneous values of whites as “supremacist and toxic”…

    Hell, they are teaching this in the curriculum in the schools–as reported by a friend who teaches HS World History, having returned to the NYC DOE after teaching elsewhere for 5 years.

  95. @Clifford Brown

    The day’s events recalled the violence and anarchy that followed a Diana Ross concert in Central Park on July 23, 1983, when 80 people were arrested and 171 people filed complaints of beatings, robberies and other attacks that occurred in Columbus Circle
     
    Diana Ross in full on diva mode as a torrential storm erupts during her 1983 Central Park concert. At 3:25, something is certainly going on with the crowd and at the 5:00 mark, Diana Ross is openly pleading for calm.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rXWDwVY-270

    As a way of atoning for the whole fiasco Ross agreed to fund a large playground in the park. Of course it’s named after her, which I suppose makes the gesture something less than 100% altruistic, but all in all it was the right thing for her to have done.
    Amusing aside: playgrounds in the parks are an example of NYC’s continued ability to get things Not Quite Right. Adults are allowed in playgrounds only when accompanying children, which makes sense and surely is a common rule elsewhere. Except the city doesn’t always clearly demarcate the restricted playground zones, and more than a few adults sitting on what they thought were ordinary, open to everyone park benches have gotten in legal trouble.

  96. @Abe
    1990 cover story for TIME magazine on how much NYC sucks-

    http://content.time.com/time/magazine/0,9263,7601900917,00.html


    The Decline Of New York
    A surge of brutal killings has shaken the Big Apple to its core. Frightened residents now wonder if Gotham's treasures are worth the hassle -- and the risk.
     

    Here’s the content of the full article:

    http://content.time.com/time/subscriber/article/0,33009,971142,00.html

    Some choice quotes:

    A surge of drugs and violent crime that government officials seem utterly unable to combat. Eight other major cities have higher homicide rates, but New York’s carnage dwarfs theirs in absolute terms. Last year 1,905 people were murdered in New York, more than twice as many as in Los Angeles. In the first five months of this year, 888 homicides were committed, setting a pace that will result in a new record if it goes unchecked.

    The victims have been of all races, all classes, all ages. This summer, in one eight-day period, four children were killed by stray gunshots as they played on the sidewalks, toddled in their grandmother’s kitchens or slept soundly in their own beds. Six others have been wounded since late June. So many have died that a new slang term has been coined to describe them: “mushrooms,” as vulnerable as tiny plants that spring up underfoot.

    Then last week came the murder of 22-year-old Brian Watkins, an avid tennis buff from Provo, Utah, on a subway platform in midtown Manhattan. Over the years, his family frequently made a pilgrimage to watch the U.S. Open tennis tournament in Queens. En route to dinner at Tavern on the Green, a popular tourist attraction, the family was attacked by a group of eight black and Hispanic youths. After one of the gang cut open his father’s pocket to get at his money and punched his mother in the face, Brian jumped to his parents’ defense. He was stabbed with a four-inch butterfly knife and died 40 minutes later at St. Vincent’s Hospital.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    White Hispanic Johnny Hincapie spent 25 years in jail for that but just got out because he din du nuthin.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/25/nyregion/johnny-hincapie-subway-attack-case.html

    Johnny was (or was not) among the gang of muggers, which made him guilty under the "felony murder" rule even though he was not the knife man.

    The actual stabber said that he din du nuthin either and that the victim just walked into his knife.

    https://www.apnews.com/cbd512cc1b3324d700971ca89421874c
  97. @PiltdownMan

    I mean, I’m sure Uyghurs are not bad people, but a stitch in time saves nine, and a lot of good happens from protecting cultural homogeneity. Omelettes and broken eggs.

     

    The distance from Beijing to Hotan or Urumqi is about 2,500 miles. The Chinese Communist party is far from the Han Chinese homelands, and is in the Uyghurs' face. As for cultural homogeneity, it is being imposed from the outside by the Han Chinese and a Communist Party whose record of cultural sensitivity was established during the Cultural Revolution, i.e. they are barbarians, with neither a sense of history nor of culture.

    Which explains why a government would deliberately demolish 800 year old buildings, such as these two structurally sound and stunning examples of 13th century Central Asian architecture that were razed to the ground in the last two years.

    https://i.imgur.com/HQB0ncz.jpg

    https://i.imgur.com/QlzD88l.jpg

    Gorgeous buildings. What’s with the hatred of beauty, anyway.

    The revolutionaries wanted to blow up Chartres but thought the masonry would land in the town below.

    • Replies: @J.Ross
    Beauty is everybody's first lesson that life is unequal and unfairness is unfair.
  98. @Jack D
    "Santos spent nearly three weeks in jail before the Bronx Freedom Fund bailed him out...

    Founded in 2007, the Bronx Freedom Fund provides bail of up to $2,000 for defendants charged with misdemeanors to help them “avoid the dire consequences of pretrial detention,” according to its most recent IRS filing.

    It receives 100% of its funding from unspecified “private donations and foundations” and had just over $1 million on hand as of July 30, 2018, the tax-exempt group’s returns show.
    ...
    Neither the fund’s director, Elena Weissman, nor its chairman and co-founder, David Feige, returned requests for comment."

    I think if you provide bail for someone and they skip out, you should be required to take their place. You should also be civilly and criminally liable for any acts that they commit while out on bail. By providing bail, you are vouching that this person is not a danger to society and will appear for trial. $2,000 is nothing (except to an indigent criminal - that was a feature and not a bug) and now they aren't even going to bother with that anymore. Crime is going to rise UNEXPECTEDLY, even INEXPLICABLY in New York once this gets going.

    Jack D:

    Surprise, surprise! The Kennedy family and one or more of their sham foundations are major financial underwriters of one or more of these do gooder bail release outfits!

  99. @Kronos
    What are the best films that captured NYC crime?

    1) Death Wish Series?
    2) Fort Apache?
    3) The French Connection?

    The “Bonfire of the Vanities” film was awful (I watched it) so it’s disqualified. But it has some imposition from the book.

    https://youtu.be/ZIz_RlNZZlg
    • Replies: @SunBakedSuburb
    Oh yeah. Escape from New York (1981), another one of John Carpenter's exquisitely crafted pulp tales. I visited NYC a few times in the late 90s and enjoyed it for a day or two before wanting to Escape. The city is filled with architectural treasures. It is also filled with New Yorkers.
  100. Much of the elite rage at the popular movie Joker is owing to it showing, in its depiction of life in a comic book New York City in 1981, Youths of Color committing a violent crime. That’s all just a stereotype!

    In the 1980s and 1990s, Black Baby Boomer Rabble Rouser Al Sharpton was notorious for continuously keeping the Blacks in New York City RILED UP and ready to RIOT.

    Tweet from 2015:

  101. @slumber_j
    Sorry for multiple posts: not sure what happened there.

    Did the connection get “stuck” and did you press the refresh button on the internet browser? That’s what happened to me a few months back.

    • Replies: @slumber_j
    No, but a similar bug.
  102. @Mr McKenna
    The 80s (and early 90s) in NYC had to be lived to be believed. No one I tell about it believes it any more. Even then and there, you couldn't tell GoodWhites what was going on. They'd deny their own muggings if they could. "It's the fear of crime that's the real problem," went the refrain. BS! It was the crime. And yeah, as PR says above, we quickly learned not to report crime to the cops. Some were sympathetic but many just treated you as another form of criminal, making work for them.

    A certain context is missing from the article that New Yorkers of that time (’80s) would’ve known. Central Park was filled with all sorts of miscreants, roving bands of youths, etc., all the time on weekends, and with decent weather. Safety was in numbers, you wouldn’t go alone.

    “He said that on a usual weekend night the [Central Park] precinct receives only one or two reports of robberies.”

    You didn’t venture into the Park after dark. To this day, the Park is officially closed from 1 AM to 6 AM.

    During the day, it was an open drug market (post-Serpico Knapp Commission regs prohibited uniformed officers from making drug arrests, undercover drug squad officers has to be summoned), and roving vendors with grocery shopping carts sold all kinds of booze–mixed drinks, wine, beer.

    In other words, Central Park was a free-for-all–a party.

  103. @PiltdownMan
    I lived in Morningside Heights in Manhattan in the early to mid 1980s, and one of the things that visitors from elsewhere were cautioned against was missing the stop at Columbia University and overshooting to 125th Street, which was in Harlem. It was pretty much understood that a white person who did that stood a pretty significant chance of being mugged or shaken down at that stop, as they tried to make their way from the uptown side platform to the downtown side to come back.

    The more northern areas of Central Park were also a no go area, and the doing a full circuit around the reservoir, especially after mid-afternoon or so, was considered to be a risky proposition. Aside from the Columbia University area, Morningside Heights, it was pretty much understood that 110th Street was the northern boundary for safe streets. I remember the crime statistic much spoken about in those days—Times Square subway station averaged about 40 muggings a night.

    New York City was indeed an edgy kind of place, but as a resident, you just internalized all the rules and cautions, and it was a pretty good life there. Outsiders, however, from the suburbs, were terrified of the place. My brother-in-law, who lived in New Jersey, flat out refused to drive into the city until the late 1980s. And the couple of times he did visit, there was no way I could persuade him to visit CBGB in the Bowery, despite his enlightened interest in punk and new wave.

    http://www.bobgruen.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/R-230_CBGB_Outside1977_Gruen1.jpg

    Aside from the Columbia University area, Morningside Heights, it was pretty much understood that 110th Street was the northern boundary for safe streets.

    On the West Side. Over on the East Side 96th Street was the safe/unsafe boundary.

    One confounding factor in NYC, both then and now, is that there are horrible housing projects plunked down in the middle of what are otherwise decent areas. A classic example is in the otherwise safe and increasingly prosperous Long Island City neighborhood, which houses the Queensbridge Houses, by some accounts the nation’s largest project. So far the residents have not caused much trouble outside the project itself, but that can change at any time.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    The ironic thing is that the projects were built as "slum clearance". On the UWS, they knocked down whole neighborhoods of brownstones that would be worth many millions each today in order to put up projects.
  104. @Dan Hayes
    Jack D:

    "the Community" was and is another euphemism for Black & Hispanic "rent a mob pressure groups" rounded up and led by professional agitators such as Reverends Al and Jesse.

    And the beat goes on (and on, and on, and on...!).

    “The community “ helped put Dinkins in office, and did more than their share to get him defeated for re-election.

    The unspoken assumption among many white liberals, such as myself, is that Dinkins would give some positions of power to “community leaders”, but in return they would keep the “community “ from rioting.

    Instead, there were some minor pogroms against Jews and Koreans by the “community”, some led by Dinkins allies.

    There were only three times in my life I ever voted for a Republican. The first time was when Dinkins ran for re-election. I disliked Giuliani, but he was a major step up from Dinkins. So I voted for Giuliani. No apologies, no regrets.

    To show how much Dinkins destroyed his base— his percentage of the black vote went up from 90% in his first election to 95% when he ran for re-election. The percentage of white voters decreased in those four years. But, Dinkins won a close one the first time, and lost a close one the second time. Dinkins lost support among whites (especially Jews), Hispanics, and Asians (especially Koreans). The Italians were always behind Giuliani.

    • Replies: @Jack D

    his percentage of the black vote went up from 90% in his first election to 95% when he ran for re-election
     
    This is very telling - the worse a black politician is, the more support he gets from his people, just because he is black. They circle the wagons. Dinkins was a terrible mayor and crime was out of control but black voters don't support "getting tough on crime" because their kids are the ones committing it. This remains true today.
  105. Giuliani is a weak baby boomer coward who supports mass legal immigration and mass illegal immigration. Giuliani was born in 1944; that’s close enough for me to call him a baby boomer.

    Giuliani kept the SANCTUARY CITY for ILLEGAL ALIEN INVADERS policy in action when he was the mayor of New York City.

    I would rhetorically pulverize that pissant treasonite Rudy Giuliani in a four hour debate on mass legal immigration and mass illegal immigration and sanctuary jurisdictions for illegal alien invaders and globalization and financialization and multiculturalism and American national identity.

    I would rhetorically crush Giuliani with humour or forcefulness or facts or arguments or anecdotes or any other method. Giuliani is an empty suit baby boomer slob of the worst sort.

    Tweets from 2015:

  106. @International Jew
    I knew that New York too. Isn't it amazing, what detailed specialized geographical knowledge we mastered then? Maybe we were drawing on a survival skill that evolved long ago when our little hunting bands ranged widely while needing to keep in mind where the rival bands' territories were.

    I spent the summer of 1978 in France and the most striking thing wasn't the cheese or the cathedrals, but the freedom; I could walk anywhere I wanted, any time. In a way, Rouen was bigger than New York City!

    Yes, that was very true.

    I lived in 4 of the 5 boroughs of NYC in those days. All except Staten Island. There were boundaries one rarely crossed, especially at night.

    It was amazing how quickly some neighborhoods could change. I remember walking around the Grand Concourse in the Bronx in the mid 1980s. There were 7 burned out buildings I counted on the Grand Concourse itself, but mostly the street was okay but don’t ever get even half a block away. Even half a block away looked like Hiroshima after the A-bomb.

    I taught at a college on the Grand Concourse for a while in the mid-late 1990s. It had completely changed. It was a thriving Hispanic neighborhood, with no burned out buildings anywhere close to the Grand Concourse.

    • Replies: @prosa123
    Around 1998 or 1999 I rode the elevated J train as it traveled above Broadway in the Bushwick section of Brooklyn. It was shortly after dusk, and I was perplexed why the surrounding area looked so dark. It was like the train was going through the countryside rather than over a busy urban thoroughfare.
    I soon found out that the darkness was because a high percentage of the buildings along that section of Broadway were vacant and unlit. Most had been burned out in the 1977 blackout riots and never rebuilt. Today the area is vastly improved with almost no abandonments.
    , @Reg Cæsar

    It was amazing how quickly some neighborhoods could change.
     
    Wouldn't neighborhoods in which rentals are the rule be more susceptible to rapid change than those with a large proportion of individual homeowners? For better or worse.

    There are fewer owners, often absentee, to resist change. Thus, rapid ghettoization, then, generations later, rapid gentrification.
  107. Ann Coulter sometimes is as sarcastic as red Solo cup guy.

    Ann Coulter grew up in Connecticut and she has some experience of New York City.

    Ann Coulter is more aware of the goings on in NY City than many who haven’t lived close by or in the city.

    Tweet from 2015:

    • Replies: @Harry Baldwin
    Ann Coulter grew up in Connecticut and she has some experience of New York City.

    Ann lives on New York City's Upper East Side, so yes, she has some experience of the city.
    , @Nicholas Stix
    The tweet isn't showing up.
  108. @Abe
    Here’s the content of the full article:

    http://content.time.com/time/subscriber/article/0,33009,971142,00.html

    Some choice quotes:


    A surge of drugs and violent crime that government officials seem utterly unable to combat. Eight other major cities have higher homicide rates, but New York's carnage dwarfs theirs in absolute terms. Last year 1,905 people were murdered in New York, more than twice as many as in Los Angeles. In the first five months of this year, 888 homicides were committed, setting a pace that will result in a new record if it goes unchecked.

    The victims have been of all races, all classes, all ages. This summer, in one eight-day period, four children were killed by stray gunshots as they played on the sidewalks, toddled in their grandmother's kitchens or slept soundly in their own beds. Six others have been wounded since late June. So many have died that a new slang term has been coined to describe them: "mushrooms," as vulnerable as tiny plants that spring up underfoot.

    Then last week came the murder of 22-year-old Brian Watkins, an avid tennis buff from Provo, Utah, on a subway platform in midtown Manhattan. Over the years, his family frequently made a pilgrimage to watch the U.S. Open tennis tournament in Queens. En route to dinner at Tavern on the Green, a popular tourist attraction, the family was attacked by a group of eight black and Hispanic youths. After one of the gang cut open his father's pocket to get at his money and punched his mother in the face, Brian jumped to his parents' defense. He was stabbed with a four-inch butterfly knife and died 40 minutes later at St. Vincent's Hospital.
     

    White Hispanic Johnny Hincapie spent 25 years in jail for that but just got out because he din du nuthin.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/25/nyregion/johnny-hincapie-subway-attack-case.html

    Johnny was (or was not) among the gang of muggers, which made him guilty under the “felony murder” rule even though he was not the knife man.

    The actual stabber said that he din du nuthin either and that the victim just walked into his knife.

    https://www.apnews.com/cbd512cc1b3324d700971ca89421874c

  109. @Paleo Liberal
    “The community “ helped put Dinkins in office, and did more than their share to get him defeated for re-election.

    The unspoken assumption among many white liberals, such as myself, is that Dinkins would give some positions of power to “community leaders”, but in return they would keep the “community “ from rioting.

    Instead, there were some minor pogroms against Jews and Koreans by the “community”, some led by Dinkins allies.

    There were only three times in my life I ever voted for a Republican. The first time was when Dinkins ran for re-election. I disliked Giuliani, but he was a major step up from Dinkins. So I voted for Giuliani. No apologies, no regrets.

    To show how much Dinkins destroyed his base— his percentage of the black vote went up from 90% in his first election to 95% when he ran for re-election. The percentage of white voters decreased in those four years. But, Dinkins won a close one the first time, and lost a close one the second time. Dinkins lost support among whites (especially Jews), Hispanics, and Asians (especially Koreans). The Italians were always behind Giuliani.

    his percentage of the black vote went up from 90% in his first election to 95% when he ran for re-election

    This is very telling – the worse a black politician is, the more support he gets from his people, just because he is black. They circle the wagons. Dinkins was a terrible mayor and crime was out of control but black voters don’t support “getting tough on crime” because their kids are the ones committing it. This remains true today.

    • Replies: @prosa123
    Dinkins was a terrible mayor and crime was out of control but black voters don’t support “getting tough on crime” because their kids are the ones committing it. This remains true today.

    Which is faulty reasoning, because the black voters or their family members are also the main victims of crime.
    , @Paleo Liberal
    There was a lot more to it than that.

    I had some friends who were mixed American Indian and black. They took part in several anti-Columbus marches — with permits — on October 12, 1992.

    I heard multiple eyewitness accounts, in one case backed up by photos taken by some German tourists, that cops (Italians???) were attacking peaceful marchers without any provocation. For whatever reason, the cops were attacking anyone who looked white or looked Indian, but avoiding any contact with anyone who looked black.

    My friends felt that Dinkins had given the orders for cops to stop beating up blacks. They were scared that as soon as Giuliani became mayor, it would be open season.
  110. LOL, NYC library joke

  111. @Paleo Liberal
    Yes, that was very true.

    I lived in 4 of the 5 boroughs of NYC in those days. All except Staten Island. There were boundaries one rarely crossed, especially at night.

    It was amazing how quickly some neighborhoods could change. I remember walking around the Grand Concourse in the Bronx in the mid 1980s. There were 7 burned out buildings I counted on the Grand Concourse itself, but mostly the street was okay but don’t ever get even half a block away. Even half a block away looked like Hiroshima after the A-bomb.

    I taught at a college on the Grand Concourse for a while in the mid-late 1990s. It had completely changed. It was a thriving Hispanic neighborhood, with no burned out buildings anywhere close to the Grand Concourse.

    Around 1998 or 1999 I rode the elevated J train as it traveled above Broadway in the Bushwick section of Brooklyn. It was shortly after dusk, and I was perplexed why the surrounding area looked so dark. It was like the train was going through the countryside rather than over a busy urban thoroughfare.
    I soon found out that the darkness was because a high percentage of the buildings along that section of Broadway were vacant and unlit. Most had been burned out in the 1977 blackout riots and never rebuilt. Today the area is vastly improved with almost no abandonments.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    That neighborhood was where I spent the 1st 6 years of my life - we lived half a block from the el. When we left in the early 60s we were probably the last white people on the block. When I went back in the late 70s the tenement ( railroad flat, bathtub in the kitchen) where I grew up was gone - just a vacant lot in its place. On the steps of its next door twin stood a yout who looked like a drug dealer or maybe a lookout. I didn't get out of the car.

    Now I see reviews in the NY Times for hipsterish restaurants that are opening in that neighborhood. The mind boggles.
  112. @prosa123
    Aside from the Columbia University area, Morningside Heights, it was pretty much understood that 110th Street was the northern boundary for safe streets.

    On the West Side. Over on the East Side 96th Street was the safe/unsafe boundary.

    One confounding factor in NYC, both then and now, is that there are horrible housing projects plunked down in the middle of what are otherwise decent areas. A classic example is in the otherwise safe and increasingly prosperous Long Island City neighborhood, which houses the Queensbridge Houses, by some accounts the nation's largest project. So far the residents have not caused much trouble outside the project itself, but that can change at any time.

    The ironic thing is that the projects were built as “slum clearance”. On the UWS, they knocked down whole neighborhoods of brownstones that would be worth many millions each today in order to put up projects.

    • Replies: @prosa123
    This may be in the realm of urban legend, but here goes. There are a couple of smallish housing projects in Far Rockaway, which for the uninitiated is a very isolated part of the city on a peninsula south of JFK Airport, reachable from the rest of the city by a very long, meandering subway trip or by a commuter train looping through neighboring Nassau County. According to this rumor, the city housing authority used these projects as a dumping ground for residents of other housing projects who got booted out for bad behavior, things like dealing drugs or turning tricks out of an apartment. Most other places would have expelled these characters from public housing completely, but of course NYC won't do that. So instead they were plunked down in as isolated and remote a location as possible.
    , @Reg Cæsar

    The ironic thing is that the projects were built as “slum clearance”. On the UWS, they knocked down whole neighborhoods of brownstones that would be worth many millions each today in order to put up projects.
     
    Just like the ballparks of the same era. Where are they now?
  113. @Jack D

    his percentage of the black vote went up from 90% in his first election to 95% when he ran for re-election
     
    This is very telling - the worse a black politician is, the more support he gets from his people, just because he is black. They circle the wagons. Dinkins was a terrible mayor and crime was out of control but black voters don't support "getting tough on crime" because their kids are the ones committing it. This remains true today.

    Dinkins was a terrible mayor and crime was out of control but black voters don’t support “getting tough on crime” because their kids are the ones committing it. This remains true today.

    Which is faulty reasoning, because the black voters or their family members are also the main victims of crime.

    • Replies: @Kolya Krassotkin
    Good reasoning is the cognitive exception, not the rule, among populations with an 85 mean IQ.
    , @James Braxton
    It's pretty sound reasoning.

    It is more immediately important for a black voter to keep her son out of prison than to maybe reduce crime just so that her neighborhood can get gentrified.
    , @Alden
    Black victims of black criminals deserve their victimization. Let the blacks rob beat murder and rape each other.
  114. @Kronos
    What are the best films that captured NYC crime?

    1) Death Wish Series?
    2) Fort Apache?
    3) The French Connection?

    The “Bonfire of the Vanities” film was awful (I watched it) so it’s disqualified. But it has some imposition from the book.

    https://youtu.be/ZIz_RlNZZlg

    The Taking of Pelham 123 (1974): An organized group of machine-gun wielding men led by a South African mercenary hold a subway car full of commuters hostage for ransom. The film doesn’t involve feral black criminality, but it was filmed on location in NYC in the early 70s and the grit and grime of the city is authentically portrayed. The city itself is the main character. Plus, a great cast featuring Robert Shaw and Walter Matthau.

    • Replies: @Daniel H
    Quentin Tarantino’s ripped off some ideas from Taking Pelham 1-2-3 for his Reservoir Dogs. Mr Blue, Mr. White, Mr. Pink. The thugs all being mutually unacquainted.
  115. @Mr McKenna
    The 80s (and early 90s) in NYC had to be lived to be believed. No one I tell about it believes it any more. Even then and there, you couldn't tell GoodWhites what was going on. They'd deny their own muggings if they could. "It's the fear of crime that's the real problem," went the refrain. BS! It was the crime. And yeah, as PR says above, we quickly learned not to report crime to the cops. Some were sympathetic but many just treated you as another form of criminal, making work for them.

    I went to Times Square to see the Ball drop on New Years Eve, 1984. It was jammed. I counted how many empty wallets I stepped on or kicked in the throng and stopped after I reached 16. I didn’t have the patience to keep counting.

  116. @Paleo Liberal
    My brother went to Columbia in the mid-late 1990s. The first thing everyone was told was never, ever, under any circumstances go inside Morningside Park. Ever. Don’t even think about it.

    In the late 70s he and some friends moved into a building on 122 st. They were large fellows, good for the initial gentrification. That building was mostly black families. The building was owned by one of the worst slumlords in the city — Jewish Theological Seminary. Once there was a fire in the building. The landlord didn’t care. At one point his roommate’s mother called up the Seminary and said: “as a Jew, I am shocked”. Repairs came quickly.

    I do remember getting off the train at 125 st, even after midnight. I was a little over 6’, and my brother was 6’4”, and we were both young and broke.

    The building was owned by one of the worst slumlords in the city — Jewish Theological Seminary

    Do tell. I never heard this before. Did they make the papers ? These are the same people who go around weeping tikkun olam tears on every Orthodox transgression.

  117. @prosa123
    Around 1998 or 1999 I rode the elevated J train as it traveled above Broadway in the Bushwick section of Brooklyn. It was shortly after dusk, and I was perplexed why the surrounding area looked so dark. It was like the train was going through the countryside rather than over a busy urban thoroughfare.
    I soon found out that the darkness was because a high percentage of the buildings along that section of Broadway were vacant and unlit. Most had been burned out in the 1977 blackout riots and never rebuilt. Today the area is vastly improved with almost no abandonments.

    That neighborhood was where I spent the 1st 6 years of my life – we lived half a block from the el. When we left in the early 60s we were probably the last white people on the block. When I went back in the late 70s the tenement ( railroad flat, bathtub in the kitchen) where I grew up was gone – just a vacant lot in its place. On the steps of its next door twin stood a yout who looked like a drug dealer or maybe a lookout. I didn’t get out of the car.

    Now I see reviews in the NY Times for hipsterish restaurants that are opening in that neighborhood. The mind boggles.

    • Replies: @Daniel H
    Bushwick was ground zero of the mayhem on the night of the 1977 blackout. It is said that the looting along the commercial strip of Broadway really pushed the neighborhood over the edge into on out and out slum. My friends and I were joyriding around Manhattan that night when the lights went out. Wild night.
  118. @Cortes
    My candidate:

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Escape_from_New_York

    Oh yeah. Escape from New York (1981), another one of John Carpenter’s exquisitely crafted pulp tales. I visited NYC a few times in the late 90s and enjoyed it for a day or two before wanting to Escape. The city is filled with architectural treasures. It is also filled with New Yorkers.

  119. @Paleo Liberal
    My brother went to Columbia in the mid-late 1990s. The first thing everyone was told was never, ever, under any circumstances go inside Morningside Park. Ever. Don’t even think about it.

    In the late 70s he and some friends moved into a building on 122 st. They were large fellows, good for the initial gentrification. That building was mostly black families. The building was owned by one of the worst slumlords in the city — Jewish Theological Seminary. Once there was a fire in the building. The landlord didn’t care. At one point his roommate’s mother called up the Seminary and said: “as a Jew, I am shocked”. Repairs came quickly.

    I do remember getting off the train at 125 st, even after midnight. I was a little over 6’, and my brother was 6’4”, and we were both young and broke.

    Paleo Liberal:

    At the 96th Street subway stop there was a public address announcement against inadvertently continuing on the 7th Avenue Line – essentially warning against journeying into Harlem’s deepest, darkest nether world!

    • Replies: @Jack D
    96th Street is where the #2 and 3 express trains peeled off to the northeast toward central Harlem while the #1 Broadway local continued to proceed due north toward relatively safe Morningside Heights. I think that to this day I've never been on a 2 or 3 north of 96th St.
    , @Aaron Haspel
    In The Brother from Another Planet (1984) there is a black street magician performing on the #2 as it pulls in to 96th Street. He announces, "And for my next trick... I'm gonna make all the white people disappear!"
  120. @Jack D
    The ironic thing is that the projects were built as "slum clearance". On the UWS, they knocked down whole neighborhoods of brownstones that would be worth many millions each today in order to put up projects.

    This may be in the realm of urban legend, but here goes. There are a couple of smallish housing projects in Far Rockaway, which for the uninitiated is a very isolated part of the city on a peninsula south of JFK Airport, reachable from the rest of the city by a very long, meandering subway trip or by a commuter train looping through neighboring Nassau County. According to this rumor, the city housing authority used these projects as a dumping ground for residents of other housing projects who got booted out for bad behavior, things like dealing drugs or turning tricks out of an apartment. Most other places would have expelled these characters from public housing completely, but of course NYC won’t do that. So instead they were plunked down in as isolated and remote a location as possible.

    • Replies: @Dan Hayes
    prosa123:

    Far Rockaway, the area in question, originally had many summer-only residents. NYC under Mayor Wagner found it very convenient to dump welfare recipients year-round into otherwise vacant buildings! Of course this was a recipe, advertent or inadvertent, for disaster. The end result was that the area was eventually urban renewaled and peppered with those housing projects.

    BTW, the NYC Housing Authority under Bob Moses was prevented by court order from expelling these low-lives. Moses did all in his power to uphold civilization.

    , @Alden
    That must have been a long time ago. The grant grafting legal foundations filed wrongful eviction law suits when project tenants were sent eviction notices for bad behavior. The courts ruled that project tenants couldn’t be evicted for bad behavior including murder.
  121. @Paleo Liberal
    Yes, that was very true.

    I lived in 4 of the 5 boroughs of NYC in those days. All except Staten Island. There were boundaries one rarely crossed, especially at night.

    It was amazing how quickly some neighborhoods could change. I remember walking around the Grand Concourse in the Bronx in the mid 1980s. There were 7 burned out buildings I counted on the Grand Concourse itself, but mostly the street was okay but don’t ever get even half a block away. Even half a block away looked like Hiroshima after the A-bomb.

    I taught at a college on the Grand Concourse for a while in the mid-late 1990s. It had completely changed. It was a thriving Hispanic neighborhood, with no burned out buildings anywhere close to the Grand Concourse.

    It was amazing how quickly some neighborhoods could change.

    Wouldn’t neighborhoods in which rentals are the rule be more susceptible to rapid change than those with a large proportion of individual homeowners? For better or worse.

    There are fewer owners, often absentee, to resist change. Thus, rapid ghettoization, then, generations later, rapid gentrification.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    Most of the Bronx (in fact most of NYC) was covered in multi-family apartment buildings. In dense and populous NY, land was too valuable to be used for single family housing especially in areas that were close to subway service. At one time co-ops were only found on Park Avenue and thereabouts and condos didn't exist so the vast majority of NYers lived in rental housing. Owning your own single family house was the exception, not the rule, which made NY very different from most of America.

    Eventually the city came to own much of the land in the South Bronx since the owners stopped paying taxes on their worthless burnt out lots. Entire blocks were completely depopulated which made it easy to redevelop later - usually putting together large tracts in a developed area is agony (unless you are a government with eminent domain power) because you have to buy out the owners 1 by 1.

    When they built the Cross Bronx Expressway they had to move thousands of people because they had to condemn a strip of 6 story apt buildings almost the full width of the Bronx and each bldg had dozens of families in it.

    , @Paleo Liberal
    I have seen some neighborhoods, for example in the South Bronx and the worst parts of Brooklyn, where there were a mix of apartment buildings and houses.

    In the 80s, I saw some of these areas where the apartment buildings were all burned down but the houses were still there. For example, some foreign students I knew lived in an apartment which was the top floor of a multi family house in either Brownsville or East New York, I forget which one. Very depressing neighborhood. I remember that was the only place where I ever saw a gigantic container of generic (just a white label) collard greens at the local grocery store.
    , @Hibernian
    In Chicago some rentals seem to be holdouts in the gentrification process. They are the ones with small units which are not popular with condo buyers, and don't make good luxury rentals.
  122. @International Jew

    a herd of about 100 youths
     
    Pack (which appears earlier) is more apt.

    I might say herd for the pack's female auxiliary.

    “Herd” is the correct word to use for a pack of water buffalo.

  123. @Jack D
    The ironic thing is that the projects were built as "slum clearance". On the UWS, they knocked down whole neighborhoods of brownstones that would be worth many millions each today in order to put up projects.

    The ironic thing is that the projects were built as “slum clearance”. On the UWS, they knocked down whole neighborhoods of brownstones that would be worth many millions each today in order to put up projects.

    Just like the ballparks of the same era. Where are they now?

  124. @prosa123
    Dinkins was a terrible mayor and crime was out of control but black voters don’t support “getting tough on crime” because their kids are the ones committing it. This remains true today.

    Which is faulty reasoning, because the black voters or their family members are also the main victims of crime.

    Good reasoning is the cognitive exception, not the rule, among populations with an 85 mean IQ.

  125. anonymous[135] • Disclaimer says:
    @PiltdownMan

    I mean, I’m sure Uyghurs are not bad people, but a stitch in time saves nine, and a lot of good happens from protecting cultural homogeneity. Omelettes and broken eggs.

     

    The distance from Beijing to Hotan or Urumqi is about 2,500 miles. The Chinese Communist party is far from the Han Chinese homelands, and is in the Uyghurs' face. As for cultural homogeneity, it is being imposed from the outside by the Han Chinese and a Communist Party whose record of cultural sensitivity was established during the Cultural Revolution, i.e. they are barbarians, with neither a sense of history nor of culture.

    Which explains why a government would deliberately demolish 800 year old buildings, such as these two structurally sound and stunning examples of 13th century Central Asian architecture that were razed to the ground in the last two years.

    https://i.imgur.com/HQB0ncz.jpg

    https://i.imgur.com/QlzD88l.jpg

    Xinjiang is the size of a mini continent. Urumqi is a 90% Han/Hui city created by Chinese people. The Uighur homeland is on the opposite end of Xinjiang in the western third where 3 out of 4 Uighurs are located. It was Uighurs who decided to get in the face of Chinese people by migrating to Urumqi and then going on a violent rampage. Uighurs have a low average IQ and are unable to create wealth or employment. Without oil or outside subsidy, Uighur lands would be poor as Tajikistan. That is why so many Uighurs migrated to the Chinese-side of Xinjiang to find employment and a future.

    • Replies: @Oleaginous Outrager

    Urumqi is a 90% Han/Hui city created by Chinese people.
     
    Two lies in one sentence. Well done.

    Without oil or outside subsidy, Uighur lands would be poor as Tajikistan.
     
    The same is true of Alaska.

    It was Uighurs who decided to get in the face of Chinese people by migrating to Urumqi
     
    "In the People's Republic era, an active program to resettle Han population in Xinjiang was initiated. In 1960, there were 76,496 Uyghurs and 477,321 Han in Urumqi."

    ChiCom shills are less clever than Soros shills, and that's a very low bar.
  126. @Anon
    No-go zones in New York! It's not just Sweden.

    In Japan, as a male at least, there is literally nowhere I wouldn't walk, at any time night or day, that I can think of. Public crime is like ... all that comes to mind are Iranians selling counterfeit public phone cards three decades ago. Or fake monks collecting money at train stations. I just hope Japan can protect their culture. And honestly ... I have a certain sympathy for the Chinese versus Uyghurs. I mean, I'm sure Uyghurs are not bad people, but a stitch in time saves nine, and a lot of good happens from protecting cultural homogeneity. Omelettes and broken eggs.

    In Japan, as a male at least, there is literally nowhere I wouldn’t walk, at any time night or day, that I can think of.

    Same for me living in Seoul for a couple of years, amazing how removing the sense of constant vigilance makes your life lighter and richer. Now I’m in LA and my head is on a swivel at all times. My wife remarks on the palpable lack of anxiety about physical security and safety she felt in Tokyo and Seoul and wonders how they achieve it. I tell her “Easy, no blacks no muslims”. She says “keep your voice down, the window’s open…”

  127. @PiltdownMan

    I mean, I’m sure Uyghurs are not bad people, but a stitch in time saves nine, and a lot of good happens from protecting cultural homogeneity. Omelettes and broken eggs.

     

    The distance from Beijing to Hotan or Urumqi is about 2,500 miles. The Chinese Communist party is far from the Han Chinese homelands, and is in the Uyghurs' face. As for cultural homogeneity, it is being imposed from the outside by the Han Chinese and a Communist Party whose record of cultural sensitivity was established during the Cultural Revolution, i.e. they are barbarians, with neither a sense of history nor of culture.

    Which explains why a government would deliberately demolish 800 year old buildings, such as these two structurally sound and stunning examples of 13th century Central Asian architecture that were razed to the ground in the last two years.

    https://i.imgur.com/HQB0ncz.jpg

    https://i.imgur.com/QlzD88l.jpg

    You are spreading misinformation. The 780 year old mosque was not demolished. The north gatehouse built in the 1990s was demolished. The original person tweeting the allegation later clarified

    https://medium.com/@shawnwzhang/clarification-of-keriya-etika-mosques-current-situations-9678a6975a51

  128. @Dan Hayes
    Paleo Liberal:

    At the 96th Street subway stop there was a public address announcement against inadvertently continuing on the 7th Avenue Line - essentially warning against journeying into Harlem's deepest, darkest nether world!

    96th Street is where the #2 and 3 express trains peeled off to the northeast toward central Harlem while the #1 Broadway local continued to proceed due north toward relatively safe Morningside Heights. I think that to this day I’ve never been on a 2 or 3 north of 96th St.

    • Agree: Dan Hayes
    • Replies: @Mike Zwick
    As a tourist, I accidentally got on an express train instead of a local. I went all the way to Tremont Avenue in the Bronx. The only other white people on the train was a white couple. they got off at Tremont, so I did as well. After I got close to them they looked like meth heads or some kind of addicts. After they left, I was the only person in the station. You could hear a pin drop! I waited for another train to back down to Manhattan and luckily, when it came, it was another express, so I didn't have to stop at every station all the way down. I read in a tour guide that if you felt unsafe on a train, to sit by the motorman. I did this on the way back and the motorman kind of looked and me and sort of laughed at me. I later told this story to some women at a bar and they thought that the people on the train probably thought I was a cop. This was in the early 1990's.
    , @Paleo Liberal
    Not even to go to the zoo?

    I think that is about the only time I would take those trains.

    I lived in the NE Bronx for a few years in the early to mid 80s. I always took the 6 train. The Italians kept their parts of the Bronx safe.

    One time my landlady took us to Arthur Avenue, which is the Italian marketplace in the Bronx. There would be black limousines double parked with the motor running, completely empty. Nobody ever touched those cars.

    Friends told me Joe Pesci worked at a restaurant in that area in the early 1970s. Scorsese and DiNiro would eat there sometimes, and got Pesci into Raging Bull since he was a bit of a character, to put it mildly. I knew several people who knew Pesci. He was crazier in real life than in the movies.

    Across the street from the Arthur Avenue district my landlady pointed out some youths stripping a car. She said they wouldn’t dare do that on the other side of the street.

    There was absolutely no property or violent crime in the Italian area where I lived. A few blocks in the wrong direction was a different story. I lived close to Westchester Square, which was about as far south on the 6 line as I dared to go in those days.
    , @Tony
    96 st on the east side was known as the DMZ. Wealthy and/or white people on the south side, housing projects on the north side.
  129. I never knew pre-Rudy NYC – too young. But Manhattan of the early-mid 2000s (before the financial crisis) was the most amazing place. Always felt safe. Even girls would walk around by themselves at 2 in the morning. Plethora of things to do. Good times. I hear it’s different now though…. more diversity, more billionaires, more lawlessness. Not as much the ultimate post-college playground as it was back then. No way Rudy could win today with the current demographics of NYC.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    When I drove across the country and arrived in lower Manhattan late in the Bloomberg Era, the place looked like one giant set for all the romantic comedy movies ever made.
    , @Paleo Liberal
    Except for a couple of years in the late 1990s, I was in NYC from late 1983 until shortly after the WTC attack.

    For me the absolute best time in NYC was the tail end of the dot com era. Rents were still cheap, crime was down, and jobs were plentiful.

    Housing costs went up quite a bit in the early to mid 1980s, but were pretty flat for about 15 years afterwards.

    The big reason why so many of us spent time in NYC in the old days was it was possible for young people to afford to live there. Until recently, it has always been possible for young people starting out to live a decent life in NYC, even in Manhattan.

    My paternal grandmother lived in Greenwich Village when she met my grandfather. My mother lived in Greenwich Village when she met my father. I lived in Greenwich Village when I met my wife. My brother lived in Chelsea when he met his wife. We all moved to outer boroughs or Nassau County or both after marriage.

    But the rents are so high these days, people struggle to survive in the worst parts of Brooklyn.
  130. @anonymous

    And honestly … I have a certain sympathy for the Chinese versus Uyghurs. I mean, I’m sure Uyghurs are not bad people
     
    Uighurs are bad people. In July 2009, over 1,000+ Uighurs went on a rampage of murder against Chinese people in the city of Urumqi. Over 100+ Chinese were knifed or bashed to death. This is the event that launched the Uighur insurgency that is now finally being completely put down by the Chinese. Security forces in China are locking up a large number of Uighurs but there are no allegations of death squads. This is a very non-violent counter insurgency and the Uighurs certainly deserve it. They reap the whirlwind.

    Uighurs are bad people. In July 2009, over 1,000+ Uighurs went on a rampage of murder against Chinese people in the city of Urumqi.

    Maybe they just don’t like being ruled by the Chinese, and would prefer to have their own nation?

    • Replies: @anonymous
    Here are my reasons for why Uighur aspirations are illegitimate and the Chinese clampdown is legitimate.

    Uighurs

    1. Uighurs are within the internationally recognized borders of China. Pragmatic people whether they sympathize with Uighurs or not accept this fact and understand support for Uighur secession leads to violence because of the immovable will of the state to keep it's territorial integrity. So a secession movement should be avoided as a folly. For a lot of hawkish Americans violence without end is desired because China is regarded as a rival that has to be destabilized. If that's your underlying position, then you should be forthright and admit it.
    2. It's common for races and ethnic groups to want to rule themselves. The problem with Uighurs is they are more violent than other groups because they are Muslims. During the height of the insurgency in 2014 two truck bombs driven by Uighur insurgents blew up a market in Urumqi and killed scores of people. They are now reaping the whirlwind.

    Chinese

    1. Counterinsurgency in third world countries are usually dreadful affairs involving death squads. This one has been based on technology and mass internment without reports of excess deaths at the hands of security forces outside of riots. The counterinsurgency has been highly successfully in winding down the conflict.
    2. China is offering the Uighurs a Puerto Rico like carrot to swear off insurgency. Large scale transfers are offered to eventually bring Uighurs up to a first world standard of living (when China reaches that level of development). I predict within 20 years, most Uighurs like most Puerto Ricans will support union because it means so much to their standard of living. However, unlike Puerto Ricans, Uighurs don't contribute infantry for wars so they are a drain to China. (Personally I wish they had their own country because China is weaker with them.)
    3. Also personally I don't support the mass internment. I'm not sure why it started in 2017 when the insurgency had been defeated. However, there may be concern that thousands of Uighur fighters in Syria supported by Turkey have survived the war and some will return to China to blow up subway cars. I am assuming there is some kind of terrorism concern that motivates this extraordinary turn.
  131. 96th Street is where the #2 and 3 express trains peeled off to the northeast toward central Harlem while the #1 Broadway local continued to proceed due north toward relatively safe Morningside Heights. I think that to this day I’ve never been on a 2 or 3 north of 96th St.

    The 3 ends its run in central Harlem, but the 2 continues much further and runs to generally safer parts of the northern Bronx.

  132. @Reg Cæsar

    It was amazing how quickly some neighborhoods could change.
     
    Wouldn't neighborhoods in which rentals are the rule be more susceptible to rapid change than those with a large proportion of individual homeowners? For better or worse.

    There are fewer owners, often absentee, to resist change. Thus, rapid ghettoization, then, generations later, rapid gentrification.

    Most of the Bronx (in fact most of NYC) was covered in multi-family apartment buildings. In dense and populous NY, land was too valuable to be used for single family housing especially in areas that were close to subway service. At one time co-ops were only found on Park Avenue and thereabouts and condos didn’t exist so the vast majority of NYers lived in rental housing. Owning your own single family house was the exception, not the rule, which made NY very different from most of America.

    Eventually the city came to own much of the land in the South Bronx since the owners stopped paying taxes on their worthless burnt out lots. Entire blocks were completely depopulated which made it easy to redevelop later – usually putting together large tracts in a developed area is agony (unless you are a government with eminent domain power) because you have to buy out the owners 1 by 1.

    When they built the Cross Bronx Expressway they had to move thousands of people because they had to condemn a strip of 6 story apt buildings almost the full width of the Bronx and each bldg had dozens of families in it.

  133. @prosa123
    Dinkins was a terrible mayor and crime was out of control but black voters don’t support “getting tough on crime” because their kids are the ones committing it. This remains true today.

    Which is faulty reasoning, because the black voters or their family members are also the main victims of crime.

    It’s pretty sound reasoning.

    It is more immediately important for a black voter to keep her son out of prison than to maybe reduce crime just so that her neighborhood can get gentrified.

  134. @The Alarmist

    For example, in the Greenwich Village area, the west side of Second Avenue was okay, but don’t cross Second Avenue! There were legendary Alphabet Avenues on the Lower East Side that few people I talked to had ever walked. There be dragons…
     
    I visited a friend who lived in NYC in the '00s, and took him to Benny's Burritos in Alphabet City, the Lower East side. He spent the entire time on high alert. This was the relatively gentrified Alphabet City post-Guiliani.

    When I first moved to NYC under General Dinkins, Alphabet City was a place you might want to avoid. One night, while hanging in King Tut's Wah Wah Hut with a babe named Chantal, dressed in a chain mail blouse, I realised my friend had disappeared, so I went went wandering into the homeless city called Thompkins Square Park to find him, where I found him shooting up with one of the local denizens.

    But that was child's play compared to having a dozen "youths" set upon me while I was jogging around the Central Park Reservoir on the "safe" Upper East Side.

    Those were some dark times in NYC indeed. Things got infinitely better under Guiliani, but all things must pass.

    I visited a friend who lived in NYC in the ’00s, and took him to Benny’s Burritos in Alphabet City, the Lower East side. He spent the entire time on high alert. This was the relatively gentrified Alphabet City post-Guiliani.

    When I first moved to NYC under General Dinkins, Alphabet City was a place you might want to avoid. One night, while hanging in King Tut’s Wah Wah Hut with a babe named Chantal, dressed in a chain mail blouse, I realised my friend had disappeared, so I went went wandering into the homeless city called Thompkins Square Park to find him, where I found him shooting up with one of the local denizens.

    Alphabet City is one of the few places below 96th street that isn’t fully gentrified, but it’s getting there. If you’re commuting to midtown from east of Avenue A, it’s quite a long walk to a convenient subway line. My current girlfriend lived at 1st Ave and 9th until recently, and we checked out a few cool new restaurants over on B and C. It felt very safe overall. It’s only a matter of time before real estate development transforms it in earnest.

  135. @eah
    17 youths were arrested ... roving bands ... a virtual gantlet of young thugs ... "we saw 35 or 40 kids – they were young, 12 to 16 years old ..."

    I see -- well, some things haven't changed, although back then they did have a different common understanding of the word "virtual".

    Fourth Employee Sues NYC Education Department For Anti-White Racism

    Under Carranza’s administration, O.E.A. leadership has normalized an approach that interrogates “whiteness,” defines the supposed homogeneous values of whites as “supremacist and toxic” and denies safety to Caucasians by mocking them as white and “fragile” if they push back in any way when, according to the law, they clearly should too be protected.

    The result of this has been the creation of an unlawful, unsafe and hostile work environment where name-calling and racialized accusations toward white supervisors are condoned. Furthermore, discrimination and retaliation toward white employees — especially white dissenters like me — is intentional.
     

    Good. Stories like this gladden my heart. The worse things get for Good Whites the better things get for the rest of us, and to those who say “What about the innocents….”, I say, God will know his own.

  136. @prosa123
    This may be in the realm of urban legend, but here goes. There are a couple of smallish housing projects in Far Rockaway, which for the uninitiated is a very isolated part of the city on a peninsula south of JFK Airport, reachable from the rest of the city by a very long, meandering subway trip or by a commuter train looping through neighboring Nassau County. According to this rumor, the city housing authority used these projects as a dumping ground for residents of other housing projects who got booted out for bad behavior, things like dealing drugs or turning tricks out of an apartment. Most other places would have expelled these characters from public housing completely, but of course NYC won't do that. So instead they were plunked down in as isolated and remote a location as possible.

    prosa123:

    Far Rockaway, the area in question, originally had many summer-only residents. NYC under Mayor Wagner found it very convenient to dump welfare recipients year-round into otherwise vacant buildings! Of course this was a recipe, advertent or inadvertent, for disaster. The end result was that the area was eventually urban renewaled and peppered with those housing projects.

    BTW, the NYC Housing Authority under Bob Moses was prevented by court order from expelling these low-lives. Moses did all in his power to uphold civilization.

    • Replies: @RAZ
    Very familiar with this. Bungalows basically all streets from the Beach teens up to about Beach 100th. Low number streets generally called Far Rockaway. Most summer bungalow residents were Bronx and Brooklyn apartment dwellers. About Beach 100th was Rockaway Park. Playland at 97th st. Rockaway Park was more year round Irish fire fighter and other city workers and less summer only than the area nearer Far Rock.

    There were low income housing projects a bit inland in the Beach 30's, 40's, 50's. Probably higher up also. Much of this was for people displaced when Robert Moses built Cross Bronx Expressway. etc.

    Bungalows started coming down in the 1960's. Old timers blame John Lindsay. For many years these areas were derelict and nothing was done after the bungalows came down. Recently relatively luxury housing has been built. It's right by the beach, but a 2 hour subway ride to Midtown. There are now high speed ferries for commuting.

    Read that when Moses built highways to Jones Beach it was specifically done with overpasses too low to allow buses through since he wanted to keep out those who would likely be coming by buses.
    , @prosa123
    While Far Rockaway has the projects it also has a large Orthodox community, so it's generally not too bad an area.

    Funny Rockaway story: a month or so after Hurricane Sandy I was working at a merchandising assignment in a newly built supermarket just a bit west in Arverne. There were people in FEMA jackets and official badges by the entrances asking people if they needed disaster assistance. Believe me when I say they were pushier and more annoying than any mall-kiosk cosmetics hustlers. While the idea that FEMA employees would be on quota and paid via commissions seems ludicrous, I swear it must have been the truth.
  137. @Jack D

    his percentage of the black vote went up from 90% in his first election to 95% when he ran for re-election
     
    This is very telling - the worse a black politician is, the more support he gets from his people, just because he is black. They circle the wagons. Dinkins was a terrible mayor and crime was out of control but black voters don't support "getting tough on crime" because their kids are the ones committing it. This remains true today.

    There was a lot more to it than that.

    I had some friends who were mixed American Indian and black. They took part in several anti-Columbus marches — with permits — on October 12, 1992.

    I heard multiple eyewitness accounts, in one case backed up by photos taken by some German tourists, that cops (Italians???) were attacking peaceful marchers without any provocation. For whatever reason, the cops were attacking anyone who looked white or looked Indian, but avoiding any contact with anyone who looked black.

    My friends felt that Dinkins had given the orders for cops to stop beating up blacks. They were scared that as soon as Giuliani became mayor, it would be open season.

    • Replies: @JMcG
    There isn’t a word of this comment I believe.
  138. One of the things that goes oddly unspoken and unrecognized in all the reminiscing about the horrors of the “good old days” in NYC is the tremendous waste of time, energy, and human social and mental capital that was caused by normal productive White people having to constantly twist their lives completely in knots simply to avoid the dangers posed by violent, stupid, oversexed, thuggish, criminal POC. New York attracts many of the most creative, inventive, energetic people from around the entire world, and they had to spend half of their time and energy worrying about how not to get raped and murdered. Think of how much didn’t get done.

    Think of all the work that didn’t get done because you couldn’t live safely in the area adjacent to your workplace. Think of all the places people couldn’t go, things they couldn’t do, entire neighborhoods where nobody normal could live in peace and quiet, absurd inconvenient commutes, pleasant activities which a normal sane person simply could not do at X or Y hour of the day or night — all because POC couldn’t be bothered to restrain or behave themselves.

    Think of a place like Harlem (a fine old Swahili word, Harlem, famous for its grand African architecture). Marvelous well-built convenient housing stock in the northern sector of the greatest city in America, all of it rendered completely uninhabitable for most of the 20th century. And what did we get in return? A couple of so-so Langston Hughes poems.

    And these worthless excuses are the ones now grousing about “gentrification” and “colonization” and other made-up nonsense.

    You better believe I’m not going to touch your hair.

    • Agree: Alden
    • Replies: @sayless
    Couldn’t agree more, Germ Theory. Every time I stepped outside I was aware of the threat.

    One of the librarians at the Mid-Manhattan library was upset one day. “What’s wrong, Joe?”

    The director of his bel canto group had been murdered for his wallet. That one still enrages me.
  139. Off topic:

    Steve

    You really need to make a post about the Democratic Party Town Hall Meeting two days ago….So this is how it all ends…….with the Classy Femminist(this is how the late Alexander Cockburn referred to Democratic Party Women)
    Elizabeth Warren nodding in approval to destruction of a biological 9 year old female girl…..Who ordered this fucking sewage?

  140. @Reg Cæsar

    It was amazing how quickly some neighborhoods could change.
     
    Wouldn't neighborhoods in which rentals are the rule be more susceptible to rapid change than those with a large proportion of individual homeowners? For better or worse.

    There are fewer owners, often absentee, to resist change. Thus, rapid ghettoization, then, generations later, rapid gentrification.

    I have seen some neighborhoods, for example in the South Bronx and the worst parts of Brooklyn, where there were a mix of apartment buildings and houses.

    In the 80s, I saw some of these areas where the apartment buildings were all burned down but the houses were still there. For example, some foreign students I knew lived in an apartment which was the top floor of a multi family house in either Brownsville or East New York, I forget which one. Very depressing neighborhood. I remember that was the only place where I ever saw a gigantic container of generic (just a white label) collard greens at the local grocery store.

    • Replies: @Lot
    “ generic (just a white label) collard greens at the local grocery store“

    That was given free to a poor or elderly person as part of a government program and was being illegally resold.

    Made by big companies like Kraft but put in such labels to prevent such reselling.

    https://i.pinimg.com/originals/cd/ae/9d/cdae9d76988f80e54fc3d4e2f8e9e672.jpg
  141. @Jack D
    96th Street is where the #2 and 3 express trains peeled off to the northeast toward central Harlem while the #1 Broadway local continued to proceed due north toward relatively safe Morningside Heights. I think that to this day I've never been on a 2 or 3 north of 96th St.

    As a tourist, I accidentally got on an express train instead of a local. I went all the way to Tremont Avenue in the Bronx. The only other white people on the train was a white couple. they got off at Tremont, so I did as well. After I got close to them they looked like meth heads or some kind of addicts. After they left, I was the only person in the station. You could hear a pin drop! I waited for another train to back down to Manhattan and luckily, when it came, it was another express, so I didn’t have to stop at every station all the way down. I read in a tour guide that if you felt unsafe on a train, to sit by the motorman. I did this on the way back and the motorman kind of looked and me and sort of laughed at me. I later told this story to some women at a bar and they thought that the people on the train probably thought I was a cop. This was in the early 1990’s.

  142. @Charon

    Except for witness tampering, murder conspiracy, domestic violence cases, crimes against kids, sex crimes and terror cases
     
    Aww, what's a little witness tampering and murder conspiracy among friends? This time they've gone too far, I tell ya!

    P.S. Is there anyone on this forum who didn't live in NYC in the
    'Good Old Days'?!

    P.S. Is there anyone on this forum who didn’t live in NYC in the
    ‘Good Old Days’?!

    Striking isn’t it?

    Even I, fervently loyal Californian that I am, lived there at the very end of that period, during the Dinkin’s mayorality.

    I have to say that I loved every moment of my time there, and noticed very little, indeed nothing, of the horrors most everybody else here recounts. I was living on Lexington, a block south of the Chrysler building – not, in other words, in a wildly salubrious neighborhood. Nevertheless I walked everywhere and never felt uncomfortable or unsafe. I did of course avoid Harlem, and generally anything north of 96th street, although I once walked north and west and partially through Central Park to reach an appointment on Riverside drive near Columbia. When I arrived my hosts asked what the taxi had cost. They nearly screamed with terror when I told them how I had got there, but I just shrugged, mildly amused.

    The architecture, the crowds, the food, the concerts (classical only of course) – it was all electrifying, and every day promised (and delivered) new horizons.

    I would like to think that all of that is still available but, and who can overlook it, in the end the egalitarian cancer consumes everything it fastens upon. Dinkins was simply an incompetent, but Di Blasio is that very cancer, personified and gluttonous.

  143. @Jack D
    96th Street is where the #2 and 3 express trains peeled off to the northeast toward central Harlem while the #1 Broadway local continued to proceed due north toward relatively safe Morningside Heights. I think that to this day I've never been on a 2 or 3 north of 96th St.

    Not even to go to the zoo?

    I think that is about the only time I would take those trains.

    I lived in the NE Bronx for a few years in the early to mid 80s. I always took the 6 train. The Italians kept their parts of the Bronx safe.

    One time my landlady took us to Arthur Avenue, which is the Italian marketplace in the Bronx. There would be black limousines double parked with the motor running, completely empty. Nobody ever touched those cars.

    Friends told me Joe Pesci worked at a restaurant in that area in the early 1970s. Scorsese and DiNiro would eat there sometimes, and got Pesci into Raging Bull since he was a bit of a character, to put it mildly. I knew several people who knew Pesci. He was crazier in real life than in the movies.

    Across the street from the Arthur Avenue district my landlady pointed out some youths stripping a car. She said they wouldn’t dare do that on the other side of the street.

    There was absolutely no property or violent crime in the Italian area where I lived. A few blocks in the wrong direction was a different story. I lived close to Westchester Square, which was about as far south on the 6 line as I dared to go in those days.

    • Replies: @Dan Hayes
    Paleo Liberal:

    In NYC there are only two things Blacks are afraid of: Italians and Cold Weather!
  144. @Charon

    Except for witness tampering, murder conspiracy, domestic violence cases, crimes against kids, sex crimes and terror cases
     
    Aww, what's a little witness tampering and murder conspiracy among friends? This time they've gone too far, I tell ya!

    P.S. Is there anyone on this forum who didn't live in NYC in the
    'Good Old Days'?!

    Charon:

    I am always surprised (pleasantly) by the number of NYC respondents. Also Southern Californians and Chicago-landers, perhaps due to Steve’s residencies.

  145. @Kronos
    What are the best films that captured NYC crime?

    1) Death Wish Series?
    2) Fort Apache?
    3) The French Connection?

    The “Bonfire of the Vanities” film was awful (I watched it) so it’s disqualified. But it has some imposition from the book.

    https://youtu.be/ZIz_RlNZZlg

    Not crime so much, but Taxi Driver got the mid 70’s filth and degradation down well. Panic in Needle Park got the early 70’s drug thing down.

    Would never say it’s not an improvement over the seediness of before, but maybe touristy NY like Times Square area is now over Disneyfied.

  146. @Paleo Liberal
    Not even to go to the zoo?

    I think that is about the only time I would take those trains.

    I lived in the NE Bronx for a few years in the early to mid 80s. I always took the 6 train. The Italians kept their parts of the Bronx safe.

    One time my landlady took us to Arthur Avenue, which is the Italian marketplace in the Bronx. There would be black limousines double parked with the motor running, completely empty. Nobody ever touched those cars.

    Friends told me Joe Pesci worked at a restaurant in that area in the early 1970s. Scorsese and DiNiro would eat there sometimes, and got Pesci into Raging Bull since he was a bit of a character, to put it mildly. I knew several people who knew Pesci. He was crazier in real life than in the movies.

    Across the street from the Arthur Avenue district my landlady pointed out some youths stripping a car. She said they wouldn’t dare do that on the other side of the street.

    There was absolutely no property or violent crime in the Italian area where I lived. A few blocks in the wrong direction was a different story. I lived close to Westchester Square, which was about as far south on the 6 line as I dared to go in those days.

    Paleo Liberal:

    In NYC there are only two things Blacks are afraid of: Italians and Cold Weather!

  147. @The Last Real Calvinist
    It's interesting to analyse the vocabulary and style of a 1985 urban crime story . .

    First, the headline to that story is direct, and in the active voice, i.e. 'Roving Gangs Rob Charity Walkers'.

    We get some fairly 'triggering' descriptions, e.g. 'packs of roving youths attacked and harassed scores of marchers' and 'scores of arriving marchers fell prey to youths who swarmed upon them'.

    The reporter also interviewed actual crime victims, who then provide further juicy details, e.g. 'They looked like they had been through a tornado' and 'he and others were made to run a virtual gantlet of young thugs'. (Extra kudos to the erstwhile NYT for using 'gantlet' instead of 'gauntlet'.)

    And yet, the passive tone that dominates today's crime news is already present in nascent pockets of infection. For example, the miscreants in question are 'youths', and the faux-meteorological construction 'Much of the violence occurred . . .' sets the pace for decades of euphemism and evasion to follow.

    Today they would have been referred to as “counter-charity walkers”, engaging in “protest” over the “money being taken out of their neighborhoods”.

  148. @DodgUSA24
    I never knew pre-Rudy NYC - too young. But Manhattan of the early-mid 2000s (before the financial crisis) was the most amazing place. Always felt safe. Even girls would walk around by themselves at 2 in the morning. Plethora of things to do. Good times. I hear it's different now though.... more diversity, more billionaires, more lawlessness. Not as much the ultimate post-college playground as it was back then. No way Rudy could win today with the current demographics of NYC.

    When I drove across the country and arrived in lower Manhattan late in the Bloomberg Era, the place looked like one giant set for all the romantic comedy movies ever made.

    • Replies: @Ghost of Bull Moose
    That's a great description. And no urine smell! I remember the shock the first time I saw a young white family picnicking in Tomkins Square Park.

    I saw some graffiti in the Bronx once: 'Please gentrify us.'
  149. @Anon
    No-go zones in New York! It's not just Sweden.

    In Japan, as a male at least, there is literally nowhere I wouldn't walk, at any time night or day, that I can think of. Public crime is like ... all that comes to mind are Iranians selling counterfeit public phone cards three decades ago. Or fake monks collecting money at train stations. I just hope Japan can protect their culture. And honestly ... I have a certain sympathy for the Chinese versus Uyghurs. I mean, I'm sure Uyghurs are not bad people, but a stitch in time saves nine, and a lot of good happens from protecting cultural homogeneity. Omelettes and broken eggs.

    It has absolutely dick to do with “culture”, mon frère:

    “The oil and gas extraction industry in Aksu and Karamay is booming, with the West–East Gas Pipeline connecting to Shanghai. The oil and petrochemical sector account for 60% of Xinjiang’s local economy.”

  150. OT:

    Over a period of ten years, now-former Drexel University Professor Chikaodinaka D. Nwankpa spent federal taxpayer money at Philadelphia area venues, including two strip clubs.

    https://www.zerohedge.com/personal-finance/brexel-professor-busted-blowing-federal-research-funds-strip-clubs

    • Replies: @Jack D
    He was confused. The grants were for Naval Research but he thought they were for Navel Research.

    The brother made an understandable mistake. So far he has not been indicted and hopefully he won't be - after all it was a non-violent offense. He din du nuthin.
    , @J.Ross
    Oh come on, what if he was researching strippers?
  151. @Dan Hayes
    prosa123:

    Far Rockaway, the area in question, originally had many summer-only residents. NYC under Mayor Wagner found it very convenient to dump welfare recipients year-round into otherwise vacant buildings! Of course this was a recipe, advertent or inadvertent, for disaster. The end result was that the area was eventually urban renewaled and peppered with those housing projects.

    BTW, the NYC Housing Authority under Bob Moses was prevented by court order from expelling these low-lives. Moses did all in his power to uphold civilization.

    Very familiar with this. Bungalows basically all streets from the Beach teens up to about Beach 100th. Low number streets generally called Far Rockaway. Most summer bungalow residents were Bronx and Brooklyn apartment dwellers. About Beach 100th was Rockaway Park. Playland at 97th st. Rockaway Park was more year round Irish fire fighter and other city workers and less summer only than the area nearer Far Rock.

    There were low income housing projects a bit inland in the Beach 30’s, 40’s, 50’s. Probably higher up also. Much of this was for people displaced when Robert Moses built Cross Bronx Expressway. etc.

    Bungalows started coming down in the 1960’s. Old timers blame John Lindsay. For many years these areas were derelict and nothing was done after the bungalows came down. Recently relatively luxury housing has been built. It’s right by the beach, but a 2 hour subway ride to Midtown. There are now high speed ferries for commuting.

    Read that when Moses built highways to Jones Beach it was specifically done with overpasses too low to allow buses through since he wanted to keep out those who would likely be coming by buses.

    • Agree: Dan Hayes
    • Replies: @Dan Hayes
    RAZ:

    The area of relatively luxury housing referred to has been newly anointed the posh name "Arverne by the Sea". Adjacent is the dangerous Hammel [Public] Houses.
  152. @Jack D
    "Santos spent nearly three weeks in jail before the Bronx Freedom Fund bailed him out...

    Founded in 2007, the Bronx Freedom Fund provides bail of up to $2,000 for defendants charged with misdemeanors to help them “avoid the dire consequences of pretrial detention,” according to its most recent IRS filing.

    It receives 100% of its funding from unspecified “private donations and foundations” and had just over $1 million on hand as of July 30, 2018, the tax-exempt group’s returns show.
    ...
    Neither the fund’s director, Elena Weissman, nor its chairman and co-founder, David Feige, returned requests for comment."

    I think if you provide bail for someone and they skip out, you should be required to take their place. You should also be civilly and criminally liable for any acts that they commit while out on bail. By providing bail, you are vouching that this person is not a danger to society and will appear for trial. $2,000 is nothing (except to an indigent criminal - that was a feature and not a bug) and now they aren't even going to bother with that anymore. Crime is going to rise UNEXPECTEDLY, even INEXPLICABLY in New York once this gets going.

    By providing bail, you are vouching that this person is not a danger to society and will appear for trial.

    This isn’t true

    • Replies: @slumber_j

    By providing bail, you are vouching that this person is not a danger to society and will appear for trial.

     


    This isn’t true
     
    How is that not necessarily implied in what the bail-payer is doing here? I don't see that.
    , @Hibernian
    It should be. Rather than just wagering the bail money that they'll show up.
  153. NYC from the early 70’s to the early 90’s was a filthy corrupt crime ridden dystopia. Back then I was mugged at knife point 4 times ; once by a gang of three muggers who tried to murder me by shoving me in their vehicle; my screams for help got the attention of a few neighbors and the muggers let me go and drove off. All the perps were non-white. This was in an area of the city where homes routinely sell in excess of 2 million dollars. My experiences were shared by millions of others. My family had cars stolen by junkies, lots of people went to walk their pets and never returned. The NYPD corrupt and useless fudged the crime numbers and cops left NYC for higher paying jobs in the suburbs as so as they could. This was NYC then, luckily I survived and I am writing this far away from the NYC tri-state area.

    • Replies: @RAZ
    Anyone else remember Bensi boxes? Your car radio was incorporated into a box which you could slide and take out of your car so the radio wouldn't be stolen Which it likely would be if your car was parked in lots of places in NY. Slide it back in when you got back to your car the next day. They were big in NY in the 80's. Back in the days when Blaunpunkt was a big name for radio.
  154. @Jack D
    Youths always reminds me of My Cousin Vinny where Vinny is telling the judge in Alabama about "youts" and the judge doesn't understand what a "yout" is.

    In the parlance of the time, youths were generally understood to be a euphemism for black or Hispanic (in those days Puerto Rican or Dominican) male teenagers. The NYT was already woke enough not to actually identify them as such, but everyone knew what was meant by the term.

    It's notable BTW that all this mayhem happened in broad daylight in the middle of the afternoon.

    Mayor Bloomberg was using the term "wilding" as late as 2010 but the Gray Lady sniffily pronounced the usage to be "somewhat archaic" but did not call him "racist" on it.

    https://schott.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/04/08/wilding/

    “Wilding” is still used by older African Americans on twitter and Facebook to describe these types of random stupid crimes.

  155. @The Last Real Calvinist
    It's interesting to analyse the vocabulary and style of a 1985 urban crime story . .

    First, the headline to that story is direct, and in the active voice, i.e. 'Roving Gangs Rob Charity Walkers'.

    We get some fairly 'triggering' descriptions, e.g. 'packs of roving youths attacked and harassed scores of marchers' and 'scores of arriving marchers fell prey to youths who swarmed upon them'.

    The reporter also interviewed actual crime victims, who then provide further juicy details, e.g. 'They looked like they had been through a tornado' and 'he and others were made to run a virtual gantlet of young thugs'. (Extra kudos to the erstwhile NYT for using 'gantlet' instead of 'gauntlet'.)

    And yet, the passive tone that dominates today's crime news is already present in nascent pockets of infection. For example, the miscreants in question are 'youths', and the faux-meteorological construction 'Much of the violence occurred . . .' sets the pace for decades of euphemism and evasion to follow.

    She said that to her knowledge none of the marchers were responsible for the robberies. The police, too, said they appeared to be the work of others.

    Yes, I think we can rule out people who volunteer for walkathons.

  156. @Paleo Liberal
    I have seen some neighborhoods, for example in the South Bronx and the worst parts of Brooklyn, where there were a mix of apartment buildings and houses.

    In the 80s, I saw some of these areas where the apartment buildings were all burned down but the houses were still there. For example, some foreign students I knew lived in an apartment which was the top floor of a multi family house in either Brownsville or East New York, I forget which one. Very depressing neighborhood. I remember that was the only place where I ever saw a gigantic container of generic (just a white label) collard greens at the local grocery store.

    “ generic (just a white label) collard greens at the local grocery store“

    That was given free to a poor or elderly person as part of a government program and was being illegally resold.

    Made by big companies like Kraft but put in such labels to prevent such reselling.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    Not true. "Generic" brand goods were just a marketing gimmick to give the impression of being low priced in a recessionary period when people were looking for bargains. They were pretty much the same as private label goods always were (and still are) but instead of carrying the store brand they had these B&W labels as if saving a 1/4 of a cent/label on color printing made a difference.
  157. I’m still waiting for Steve to regale us with his memories from his trip to William Paterson College.

  158. @Steve Sailer
    When I drove across the country and arrived in lower Manhattan late in the Bloomberg Era, the place looked like one giant set for all the romantic comedy movies ever made.

    That’s a great description. And no urine smell! I remember the shock the first time I saw a young white family picnicking in Tomkins Square Park.

    I saw some graffiti in the Bronx once: ‘Please gentrify us.’

  159. I moved in to a 4th floor walk up in the East Village (paid more than the rest of the tenants in rent control units) in the mid 1980s when the neighborhood was coming up a bit from the the bombed out, heroin district as depicted in the movie “Sid and Nancy”.

    I lived at Avenue A and 12th Street.

    The saying went:

    “A stands for alert, B stands for Beware, C stands for Caution and D stands for Death”.

    The area was coming up a lot, until the crack cocaine plague hit. Yes, there were also the problem of roving wilding gangs of “youths”. My roommate was attacked.

    I ‘ve been back many times, the Crocodile Dundee bar at the corner of I think 8th street and B is there, the one where Crocodile Dundee grabbed the crotch area of some supposedly woman that was trying to pick him up, turned out to be a guy.

    Out of control urban crime by “youths” is such an obvious easy issue for us – so simple, like stooping down to pick up $100 bills. But, for some reason President George Bush Sr. and the GOP establishment wouldn’t use it, won’t use it now except when Lee Atwater did those dishonest Willie Horton adverts.

    I can’t say I ever went “Joker” resentment of rich WASPs, but I confess to screaming at the TV when Bush Sr. was going on and on about nothing, absolutely Nothing during his inaugural address. Nothing about urban anarchy crime, noting about illegal immigration invasions. I lived two blocks from a Dominican Crack House on Avenue C “The Rock” – would the Bush Family then, or the Romney Family just do the obvious – notice these bad things and maybe comment that this is “bad”.

    Trump and Buchanan did/do this all the time.

    Again just do the simple things that the Bush family and the Romney family can’t/won’t do.

    For some reason, I’m somehow “friends” with Mitt Romney on Facebook and Mitt is making a huge issue of young people in Utah using smokeless tobacco “vaping” supposedly one person in the state of Utah has died because of medical issues related to “vaping”.

    I live in Chicago the City – 3,000 plus annual shootings and 600 plus annual murders – more people get shot and murder in my city every #*$&#$(% day by gang members then have apparently ever died in Utah because of vaping…. but that’s what occupies Mitt Romney’s mind and he and the GOP establishment are so upset that President Trump is using Buchanan type “divisive language” that has apparently upset some people like Chicago’s murderous Black and Latino street gang members.

    • Replies: @Jack D

    supposedly one person in the state of Utah has died because of medical issues related to “vaping”.
     
    It turns out that almost everyone who has died or become sick from vaping was using illegal THC (marijuana) cartridges and not the factory made Juul cartridges which are apparently harmless. They use some kind of oil as the carrier for THC which is oil soluble but not water soluble (unlike nicotine) and it turns out that for some reason your lungs are not meant to be coated in microscopic droplets of oil . Who knew?

    But for some reason the media and Mitt seem to conflate the two. A big corporation like Juul has agency - lots and lots of agency. "Agency" is pronounced "money" in Newspeak. Some white college kid vaping THC that he bought on the Dark Web has no agency.
  160. @James J. O'Meara
    "For example, in the Greenwich Village area, the west side of Second Avenue was okay, but don’t cross Second Avenue!"

    Steve, either your memory or your informant are/were playing tricks on you. Second Ave. is no where near GV. Did you/he mean Seventh Avenue? I would think the whole of Second Av. would have been off limits. At the time that would be the Lower East Side, not quite hip'd up into the East Village via artists and musicians, now totally gentrified and un-affordable to any but Russian oligarchs.

    They’d started calling it the East Village by then, and easy enough for a non-native to wander over to Astor Place and still think they were in ‘the village’.

  161. @Jack D
    That neighborhood was where I spent the 1st 6 years of my life - we lived half a block from the el. When we left in the early 60s we were probably the last white people on the block. When I went back in the late 70s the tenement ( railroad flat, bathtub in the kitchen) where I grew up was gone - just a vacant lot in its place. On the steps of its next door twin stood a yout who looked like a drug dealer or maybe a lookout. I didn't get out of the car.

    Now I see reviews in the NY Times for hipsterish restaurants that are opening in that neighborhood. The mind boggles.

    Bushwick was ground zero of the mayhem on the night of the 1977 blackout. It is said that the looting along the commercial strip of Broadway really pushed the neighborhood over the edge into on out and out slum. My friends and I were joyriding around Manhattan that night when the lights went out. Wild night.

  162. @Paleo Retiree
    I moved to NYC in the late ‘70s. In my first five years there, I was pickpocketed twice, mugged twice and physically attacked once. Now, admittedly, I was a smalltown rube spending a lot of late-night time in rough neighborhoods where there were punk rock clubs and hip parties, but still. It was an era when you pretty much had to know the city block by block in order to know where’d you be safe and where you’d be likely to get in trouble. These days nearly all of Manhattan is amazingly safe.

    Oh, and whenever I tried reporting these crimes to the cops, they refused not just to do anything about them but to even record them. So I’m guessing that the official crime stats from that era wildly understate the actual crime rates.

    I’ll second that Manhattan is amazingly safe — which makes it incredibly boring, IMO. I lived in NYC for about three years and left a year after the crash in late 2008. I would often go for long runs late at night during the summer months. These runs would average no less than an hour and sometimes up to five hours — especially while training for ultramarathons. I ran through the worst parts of Brooklyn and along the more dangerous areas of the East River near Columbia and Randall’s Island. I was never bothered once — even during my runs that went into the early morning hours during hot, summer nights in August. The only act of serious violence that I ever witnessed during one of these adventures was while running with a female romantic partner along New York Avenue in Brooklyn. We witnessed a black thug plummeting himself onto the owner of a smaller bodega around midnight. Nonetheless, we decided not to intervene and continued on our way and.

    Personally, I thrive in dangerous situations as I have a higher expectation of what life should be. I get bored easily and need extreme stimulation to feel alive. Moreover, I probably would have appreciated the chaos and grittiness of NYC during the 70’s and 80’s rather than the yuppified, multiracial and limousine liberal enclave that the city has since become.

  163. @anonymous
    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/95/Xinjiang_map.png

    Xinjiang is the size of a mini continent. Urumqi is a 90% Han/Hui city created by Chinese people. The Uighur homeland is on the opposite end of Xinjiang in the western third where 3 out of 4 Uighurs are located. It was Uighurs who decided to get in the face of Chinese people by migrating to Urumqi and then going on a violent rampage. Uighurs have a low average IQ and are unable to create wealth or employment. Without oil or outside subsidy, Uighur lands would be poor as Tajikistan. That is why so many Uighurs migrated to the Chinese-side of Xinjiang to find employment and a future.

    Urumqi is a 90% Han/Hui city created by Chinese people.

    Two lies in one sentence. Well done.

    Without oil or outside subsidy, Uighur lands would be poor as Tajikistan.

    The same is true of Alaska.

    It was Uighurs who decided to get in the face of Chinese people by migrating to Urumqi

    “In the People’s Republic era, an active program to resettle Han population in Xinjiang was initiated. In 1960, there were 76,496 Uyghurs and 477,321 Han in Urumqi.”

    ChiCom shills are less clever than Soros shills, and that’s a very low bar.

    • Replies: @anonymous
    According to the census, Urumqi is a 90% Chinese city (Han and Hui and other well assimilated ethnic groups). What is incorrect and can you back it up?

    If Alaska had no natural resources and just some Eskimo settlements, then it would likely be a poor place. But what is the point of bringing this up?

    Urumqi existed before 1947 as a town. Now it's a major metropolis. It was built by Chinese. There are other settlements in the Uighur heartland in the west of Xinjiang but these settlements were a handful of self contained cities designed to space people out and avoid conflict. Xinjiang is a huge area and the handful of cities in the Uighur heartland doesn't amounts to a mass colonization. Kashgar and Hotan after all are still 95% Uighur.
  164. @SunBakedSuburb
    The Taking of Pelham 123 (1974): An organized group of machine-gun wielding men led by a South African mercenary hold a subway car full of commuters hostage for ransom. The film doesn't involve feral black criminality, but it was filmed on location in NYC in the early 70s and the grit and grime of the city is authentically portrayed. The city itself is the main character. Plus, a great cast featuring Robert Shaw and Walter Matthau.

    Quentin Tarantino’s ripped off some ideas from Taking Pelham 1-2-3 for his Reservoir Dogs. Mr Blue, Mr. White, Mr. Pink. The thugs all being mutually unacquainted.

    • Replies: @Oleaginous Outrager
    He ripped off Reservoir Dogs straight from Ringo Lam's superior City On Fire.
    , @Alfa158
    I understood that Reservoir Dogs was a scene for scene copy of a Hong Kong crime movie right down to the color names for the criminals.
  165. @MikeatMikedotMike
    OT:

    Over a period of ten years, now-former Drexel University Professor Chikaodinaka D. Nwankpa spent federal taxpayer money at Philadelphia area venues, including two strip clubs.


    https://www.zerohedge.com/personal-finance/brexel-professor-busted-blowing-federal-research-funds-strip-clubs

    He was confused. The grants were for Naval Research but he thought they were for Navel Research.

    The brother made an understandable mistake. So far he has not been indicted and hopefully he won’t be – after all it was a non-violent offense. He din du nuthin.

    • LOL: Achmed E. Newman
  166. @Lot
    “ generic (just a white label) collard greens at the local grocery store“

    That was given free to a poor or elderly person as part of a government program and was being illegally resold.

    Made by big companies like Kraft but put in such labels to prevent such reselling.

    https://i.pinimg.com/originals/cd/ae/9d/cdae9d76988f80e54fc3d4e2f8e9e672.jpg

    Not true. “Generic” brand goods were just a marketing gimmick to give the impression of being low priced in a recessionary period when people were looking for bargains. They were pretty much the same as private label goods always were (and still are) but instead of carrying the store brand they had these B&W labels as if saving a 1/4 of a cent/label on color printing made a difference.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    "Generic” brand goods were just a marketing gimmick to give the impression of being low priced in a recessionary period when people were looking for bargains.
     
    in the 1970s, some crafty publisher out out a series of "plain label" genre novels titled simply Romance, Western, etc, in white-cover paperbacks. They're harder than hell to search for, unsurprisingly, but this can give you a taste:


    https://d1csarkz8obe9u.cloudfront.net/posterpreviews/book-cover-flyer-template-6bd8f9188465e443a5e161a7d0b3cf33.jpg?ts=1561378622
    , @Lot
    Maybe somewhere white label things like that are made for normal sale. But everytime I’ve seen them they have a USDA statement on them.

    Here’s some USDA welfare free food delivery products from the 1980s.

    https://content.govdelivery.com/attachments/fancy_images/USFNS/2015/06/531932/566717/csfp-food-pkg_crop.png

    I think they’ve upgraded the labels a little since them.
  167. @Daniel H
    Quentin Tarantino’s ripped off some ideas from Taking Pelham 1-2-3 for his Reservoir Dogs. Mr Blue, Mr. White, Mr. Pink. The thugs all being mutually unacquainted.

    He ripped off Reservoir Dogs straight from Ringo Lam’s superior City On Fire.

  168. @Ian M.
    Great anecdotes.

    Vigilante justice is not ideal, but the story of how the Ukranian community reacted to the rape of one of their own indicates a much healthier community than ours are today.

    Recall the reaction to the Boston Marthon bombers on the loose: the entire metropolis was put on lockdown with people cowering in fear in their homes with the doors locked and bolted (think of the inspiration that must give aspiring terrorists: all they've got to do is set off a few pressure cooker bombs and they can get an entire metropolis to shut down). We have ceded too much control to the government in the role of protection. It emasculates men by depriving them of their protector role, and so when the time comes, men no longer know how to react, and just wait for law enforcement to arrive. The other extreme is not ideal either, where patriarchs take care of all the protection, which results in feuds and vengeance killings, but we've gone too far in the opposite direction.

    Ukrainians vs. Angels was an all-white affair so nobody cares, then or now. However if a mob of whites launched such an attack on some minority group there would be hell to pay.

  169. @anonynous
    I moved in to a 4th floor walk up in the East Village (paid more than the rest of the tenants in rent control units) in the mid 1980s when the neighborhood was coming up a bit from the the bombed out, heroin district as depicted in the movie "Sid and Nancy".

    I lived at Avenue A and 12th Street.

    The saying went:

    "A stands for alert, B stands for Beware, C stands for Caution and D stands for Death".

    The area was coming up a lot, until the crack cocaine plague hit. Yes, there were also the problem of roving wilding gangs of "youths". My roommate was attacked.

    I 've been back many times, the Crocodile Dundee bar at the corner of I think 8th street and B is there, the one where Crocodile Dundee grabbed the crotch area of some supposedly woman that was trying to pick him up, turned out to be a guy.


    Out of control urban crime by "youths" is such an obvious easy issue for us - so simple, like stooping down to pick up $100 bills. But, for some reason President George Bush Sr. and the GOP establishment wouldn't use it, won't use it now except when Lee Atwater did those dishonest Willie Horton adverts.

    I can't say I ever went "Joker" resentment of rich WASPs, but I confess to screaming at the TV when Bush Sr. was going on and on about nothing, absolutely Nothing during his inaugural address. Nothing about urban anarchy crime, noting about illegal immigration invasions. I lived two blocks from a Dominican Crack House on Avenue C "The Rock" - would the Bush Family then, or the Romney Family just do the obvious - notice these bad things and maybe comment that this is "bad".

    Trump and Buchanan did/do this all the time.

    Again just do the simple things that the Bush family and the Romney family can't/won't do.

    For some reason, I'm somehow "friends" with Mitt Romney on Facebook and Mitt is making a huge issue of young people in Utah using smokeless tobacco "vaping" supposedly one person in the state of Utah has died because of medical issues related to "vaping".

    I live in Chicago the City - 3,000 plus annual shootings and 600 plus annual murders - more people get shot and murder in my city every #*$&#$(% day by gang members then have apparently ever died in Utah because of vaping.... but that's what occupies Mitt Romney's mind and he and the GOP establishment are so upset that President Trump is using Buchanan type "divisive language" that has apparently upset some people like Chicago's murderous Black and Latino street gang members.

    supposedly one person in the state of Utah has died because of medical issues related to “vaping”.

    It turns out that almost everyone who has died or become sick from vaping was using illegal THC (marijuana) cartridges and not the factory made Juul cartridges which are apparently harmless. They use some kind of oil as the carrier for THC which is oil soluble but not water soluble (unlike nicotine) and it turns out that for some reason your lungs are not meant to be coated in microscopic droplets of oil . Who knew?

    But for some reason the media and Mitt seem to conflate the two. A big corporation like Juul has agency – lots and lots of agency. “Agency” is pronounced “money” in Newspeak. Some white college kid vaping THC that he bought on the Dark Web has no agency.

    • LOL: Johann Ricke
  170. At least in the 1980s and 1990s average white people could still afford to live an appropriately-sized (e.g. a one bedroom for one or two people) in the New York City area. That’s not the case anymore.

    While gentrifiers are mostly white, most whites are not gentrifiers. Between the gentrification and the places taken up by new immigrants, there’s nothing left for average people. Just the people making big bucks, the ones with parents willing to send a big monthly check or the ones willing to be supported by a sugar daddy or momma.

    I feel sorry for all the kids who would still like a chance to live in a big exciting city for awhile but just can’t afford it — or just aren’t willing to make the level of sacrifice that it would require, which is overwhelming these days.

    • Replies: @Nicholas Stix
    Nah. I say, they're not missing much. Just the Metropolitan Museum of Art.

    The people who made NYC exciting--Oscar Hammerstein II, Dick Rodgers, Larry Hart, Jerry Kern, Eugene O'Neill on a good day--are all long gone, as are the movie palaces and the salons of scruffy intellectuals like Phillip Rahv, who earned his "degrees" in the NY Public Library.

    What intellectual and aesthetic excitement is left, and has yet to be disappeared by the Goolag, etc., is right here, on the Internet, at places like this blog (and mine).
  171. RE: Dinkins. The Crown Heights riots ruined him. I moved out of the city around then, and was still a committed liberal, but remember thinking I would have voted for Rudy in the next election. I wasn’t a Rudy fan, but the visual of Dinkins literally “wringing his hands” on TV talking about the riots was an image of someone without leadership skills. He was pathetic.

    • Replies: @Hibernian
    Without leadership skills and/or sympathetic to the criminals.
  172. @Mr McKenna
    The 80s (and early 90s) in NYC had to be lived to be believed. No one I tell about it believes it any more. Even then and there, you couldn't tell GoodWhites what was going on. They'd deny their own muggings if they could. "It's the fear of crime that's the real problem," went the refrain. BS! It was the crime. And yeah, as PR says above, we quickly learned not to report crime to the cops. Some were sympathetic but many just treated you as another form of criminal, making work for them.

    I recall reading during that time tough liberal comments along the lines of “always keep a $50 bill in your wallet so you won’t get shot when you get mugged”. In fact, that sort of comment turned up fairly frequently and it always seemed pretty crazy to me.

    • Replies: @Mr McKenna
    My (lib) friends always said that. What a way to promote street crime, if every potential criminal knows that every white person is deliberately carrying tons of cash with the express purpose of relinquishing it without a struggle. Why not just tape it to the outside of your clothing?
  173. @RockinSockin
    NYC from the early 70's to the early 90's was a filthy corrupt crime ridden dystopia. Back then I was mugged at knife point 4 times ; once by a gang of three muggers who tried to murder me by shoving me in their vehicle; my screams for help got the attention of a few neighbors and the muggers let me go and drove off. All the perps were non-white. This was in an area of the city where homes routinely sell in excess of 2 million dollars. My experiences were shared by millions of others. My family had cars stolen by junkies, lots of people went to walk their pets and never returned. The NYPD corrupt and useless fudged the crime numbers and cops left NYC for higher paying jobs in the suburbs as so as they could. This was NYC then, luckily I survived and I am writing this far away from the NYC tri-state area.

    Anyone else remember Bensi boxes? Your car radio was incorporated into a box which you could slide and take out of your car so the radio wouldn’t be stolen Which it likely would be if your car was parked in lots of places in NY. Slide it back in when you got back to your car the next day. They were big in NY in the 80’s. Back in the days when Blaunpunkt was a big name for radio.

  174. @Mr McKenna
    The 80s (and early 90s) in NYC had to be lived to be believed. No one I tell about it believes it any more. Even then and there, you couldn't tell GoodWhites what was going on. They'd deny their own muggings if they could. "It's the fear of crime that's the real problem," went the refrain. BS! It was the crime. And yeah, as PR says above, we quickly learned not to report crime to the cops. Some were sympathetic but many just treated you as another form of criminal, making work for them.
    • LOL: Kronos
  175. @peterike

    Those were some dark times in NYC indeed. Things got infinitely better under Guiliani,
     
    And he was thanked for saving the city by the usual suspects by being called Adolph Guiliani, fascist police-state dictator, and various similar things. Of course, the Left likes to pretend this never happened, but yeah, it did. Trump is by far not the first "literal Hitler."

    https://images.uncyclomedia.co/uncyclopedia/en/d/dd/Adolph_giuliani.JPG

    After the 9/11 attack, the left had to pretend it hadn’t considered Giuliani literally Hitler.

  176. @Charles Pewitt
    Ann Coulter sometimes is as sarcastic as red Solo cup guy.

    Ann Coulter grew up in Connecticut and she has some experience of New York City.

    Ann Coulter is more aware of the goings on in NY City than many who haven't lived close by or in the city.

    Tweet from 2015:

    https://twitter.com/CharlesPewitt/status/592667516230574080?s=20

    Ann Coulter grew up in Connecticut and she has some experience of New York City.

    Ann lives on New York City’s Upper East Side, so yes, she has some experience of the city.

  177. @The Wild Geese Howard
    The Chinese are correct about the Uighurs as the Burmese are correct about the Rohingya. They are showing us how the followers of a horrible religion should be dealt with.

    That would only be true for Uighurs in China.

    Are there any?

  178. @sayless
    Gorgeous buildings. What’s with the hatred of beauty, anyway.

    The revolutionaries wanted to blow up Chartres but thought the masonry would land in the town below.

    Beauty is everybody’s first lesson that life is unequal and unfairness is unfair.

  179. @MikeatMikedotMike
    OT:

    Over a period of ten years, now-former Drexel University Professor Chikaodinaka D. Nwankpa spent federal taxpayer money at Philadelphia area venues, including two strip clubs.


    https://www.zerohedge.com/personal-finance/brexel-professor-busted-blowing-federal-research-funds-strip-clubs

    Oh come on, what if he was researching strippers?

    • Replies: @Hippopotamusdrome


    what if he was researching strippers?

     

    This him?


    Ovulatory cycle effects on tip earnings by lap dancers:
    economic evidence for human estrus?


    Geoffrey Miller, Joshua M. Tybur, Brent D. Jordan
    Department of Psychology, University of New Mexico, Albuquerque

    Abstract
    ...we examined ovulatory cycle effects on
    tip earnings by professional lap dancers working in gentlemen's clubs.

    Specifically, we measured the tips earned by
    professional lap dancers in gentlemen's clubs over a 2-month
    span.

     

  180. @Blodgie
    I hope you have since learned that this type of macho white-knighting is stupid and can get you killed.

    How do you know she wasn't a whore holding out on her pimp?

    Foolish behavior on your part.

    Obviously you failed to read the post completely, so I’ll help you out by copying out the relevant passage and pasting it:
    “My brother and I once heard a girl screaming and arrived just in time to see a big hulking black guy shuffling down the street in one direction and a Puerto Rican sprinting around the corner in the other direction. A white girl was standing on the sidewalk holding her bleeding face and crying. The black guy and the Puerto Rican had worked as a team to steal her purse.”
    You’re welcome.

  181. @Anonymous

    What are the best films that captured NYC crime?

    1) Death Wish Series?
    2) Fort Apache?
    3) The French Connection?
     
    New York City unlike some other major cities doesn’t have alleys. So in TV shows and movies depicting gritty New York City with dark, dangerous alleys they have only one alley to film the scene in.

    https://gothamist.com/arts-entertainment/this-is-the-most-filmed-in-alley-in-nyc

    This Is The Most Filmed In Alley In NYC

    When is the last time you hooked a left into an alley to cut across to the next street? Or to feed a feral cat? Or to stash a backpack? Or to hide from someone, right there, behind one of those dumpsters, crouched in a picturesque layer of fog? New York City is not a city of dark, dangerous, moody alleys, but that has not stopped Hollywood from portraying it as such. And because the vision being brought to the screen isn't a realistic one, when a production needs a New York City alley like this in New York City, they often hit up one of the only real options: Cortlandt Alley...

     

    New York City unlike some other major cities doesn’t have alleys. So in TV shows and movies depicting gritty New York City with dark, dangerous alleys they have only one alley to film the scene in.

    And yet, the climactic scene of Breakfast at Tiffany’s, one of the most New York-centric movies of all time, took place in an alley.

  182. @Dan Hayes
    Paleo Liberal:

    At the 96th Street subway stop there was a public address announcement against inadvertently continuing on the 7th Avenue Line - essentially warning against journeying into Harlem's deepest, darkest nether world!

    In The Brother from Another Planet (1984) there is a black street magician performing on the #2 as it pulls in to 96th Street. He announces, “And for my next trick… I’m gonna make all the white people disappear!”

  183. @Blodgie
    I hope you have since learned that this type of macho white-knighting is stupid and can get you killed.

    How do you know she wasn't a whore holding out on her pimp?

    Foolish behavior on your part.

    And thus, we have the society you and others like you have bequeathed us. May your chains lay lightly on you.

    • Replies: @Blodgie
    Sometimes I wonder how the government cons enough macho meatheads into joining the armed forces to fight for foreign countries.

    Then I'm reminded of the ubiquity of Tradcon fools who think it is their duty to fight strangers in the streets to protect a fair damsel and it all makes sense

    America will always have enough cannon fodder
  184. @Dan Hayes
    prosa123:

    Far Rockaway, the area in question, originally had many summer-only residents. NYC under Mayor Wagner found it very convenient to dump welfare recipients year-round into otherwise vacant buildings! Of course this was a recipe, advertent or inadvertent, for disaster. The end result was that the area was eventually urban renewaled and peppered with those housing projects.

    BTW, the NYC Housing Authority under Bob Moses was prevented by court order from expelling these low-lives. Moses did all in his power to uphold civilization.

    While Far Rockaway has the projects it also has a large Orthodox community, so it’s generally not too bad an area.

    Funny Rockaway story: a month or so after Hurricane Sandy I was working at a merchandising assignment in a newly built supermarket just a bit west in Arverne. There were people in FEMA jackets and official badges by the entrances asking people if they needed disaster assistance. Believe me when I say they were pushier and more annoying than any mall-kiosk cosmetics hustlers. While the idea that FEMA employees would be on quota and paid via commissions seems ludicrous, I swear it must have been the truth.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=69RPEh2tADk
  185. @RAZ
    Very familiar with this. Bungalows basically all streets from the Beach teens up to about Beach 100th. Low number streets generally called Far Rockaway. Most summer bungalow residents were Bronx and Brooklyn apartment dwellers. About Beach 100th was Rockaway Park. Playland at 97th st. Rockaway Park was more year round Irish fire fighter and other city workers and less summer only than the area nearer Far Rock.

    There were low income housing projects a bit inland in the Beach 30's, 40's, 50's. Probably higher up also. Much of this was for people displaced when Robert Moses built Cross Bronx Expressway. etc.

    Bungalows started coming down in the 1960's. Old timers blame John Lindsay. For many years these areas were derelict and nothing was done after the bungalows came down. Recently relatively luxury housing has been built. It's right by the beach, but a 2 hour subway ride to Midtown. There are now high speed ferries for commuting.

    Read that when Moses built highways to Jones Beach it was specifically done with overpasses too low to allow buses through since he wanted to keep out those who would likely be coming by buses.

    RAZ:

    The area of relatively luxury housing referred to has been newly anointed the posh name “Arverne by the Sea”. Adjacent is the dangerous Hammel [Public] Houses.

    • Replies: @RAZ
    Did see that. Their website makes it look appealing looking out to the water. Remember those projects. Was in the Beach 30's when I was young. Was never sure why that was Edgemere and where Arverne began.
  186. @Altai
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_JrH5_NliF4

    The Simpsons hasn’t had any gag as funny as the simple “The Godfather’s Parts, II” in like 15 years.

    Today they’d probably go to New York and sing a ballad with Alexandria Cortez at a drag show. Which is now considered upscale and not a perverse niche.

  187. @Daniel H
    Quentin Tarantino’s ripped off some ideas from Taking Pelham 1-2-3 for his Reservoir Dogs. Mr Blue, Mr. White, Mr. Pink. The thugs all being mutually unacquainted.

    I understood that Reservoir Dogs was a scene for scene copy of a Hong Kong crime movie right down to the color names for the criminals.

    • Replies: @J.Ross
    Tarentino is famously widely if trashily read and has seen a million movies, but when I saw Charley Varrick with its in-your-face cynicism, its logistical explanations of how organized crime practically works, its self-enclouding racial "honesty," and its humor, I thought, "Tarentino could've gotten his whole style from just this movie."
    , @Hibernian
    The plot line of The Departed, with the good and bad guys each having a mole among the others ranks, was from a Hong Kong film, Infernal Affairs.
    , @Alden
    It was also a copy of a 1950’s Kubrick film The Killing which was a copy of an earlier film Clean Break.
  188. @Jack D
    Not true. "Generic" brand goods were just a marketing gimmick to give the impression of being low priced in a recessionary period when people were looking for bargains. They were pretty much the same as private label goods always were (and still are) but instead of carrying the store brand they had these B&W labels as if saving a 1/4 of a cent/label on color printing made a difference.

    “Generic” brand goods were just a marketing gimmick to give the impression of being low priced in a recessionary period when people were looking for bargains.

    in the 1970s, some crafty publisher out out a series of “plain label” genre novels titled simply Romance, Western, etc, in white-cover paperbacks. They’re harder than hell to search for, unsurprisingly, but this can give you a taste:

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    I💩U➿:


    http://www.weirduniverse.net/images/2019/1981nofrills01.jpg

    The strange "No Frills" series of totally generic genre fiction books from the 1980s

  189. how it really was, the more entertaining version:

    the more realistic versions:

    • Replies: @Charles Pewitt
    I eat some soup right out of the can -- bean with bacon provides the most nutritional and caloric pop.

    The Attica prison riot was caused by some sonofabitch who wanted hot tomato soup?

    Condensed tomato soup caused the Attica prison riot?

    Excellent short scene between David Lynch actor with pronounced jaw and a really good female actress! Good writing and believable lines.
    , @Charles Pewitt
    Ann Heche was the actress in the good scene with David Lynch actor from Blue Velvet and Twin Peaks!

    Ann Heche is a wonderful nutcake actress and she more than held her own with that David Lynch actor.
  190. @Reg Cæsar

    "Generic” brand goods were just a marketing gimmick to give the impression of being low priced in a recessionary period when people were looking for bargains.
     
    in the 1970s, some crafty publisher out out a series of "plain label" genre novels titled simply Romance, Western, etc, in white-cover paperbacks. They're harder than hell to search for, unsurprisingly, but this can give you a taste:


    https://d1csarkz8obe9u.cloudfront.net/posterpreviews/book-cover-flyer-template-6bd8f9188465e443a5e161a7d0b3cf33.jpg?ts=1561378622
  191. @anonymous
    Re the girl getting mugged: I was a college student at Columbia a few years before that....I stopped by the English Department one morning and the (white) secretary was at her desk, she had trouble speaking to me because her jaw had been broken...same m.o., a car stopped near her while she was walking, a black guy jumped out, and without a word he punched her out and took her purse. The technique worked, she was dazed and in too much pain even to scream.

    If I had been operating a business in Manhattan back then, I would have gotten a firearm...the hell with the Sullivan Law (better to be tried by 12, etc.).

    Everyone admits the Sullivan Law was explicitly racist yet every liberal supports it.

  192. Tis is how I have always envisioned 1970s NYC

  193. @Dan Hayes
    RAZ:

    The area of relatively luxury housing referred to has been newly anointed the posh name "Arverne by the Sea". Adjacent is the dangerous Hammel [Public] Houses.

    Did see that. Their website makes it look appealing looking out to the water. Remember those projects. Was in the Beach 30’s when I was young. Was never sure why that was Edgemere and where Arverne began.

    • Agree: Dan Hayes
  194. @Mike Zwick
    People don't remember that it was so bad in NYC that many people at the time cheered on Bernard Goetz? There is a whole group of movies that were made just around NYC crime, Death Wish, Fort Apache The Bronx etc.. It also inspired Escape from New York, which had the premise that it got so bad, they just made New York City into a giant prison. Could you imagine these movies being made today?

    I don’t consider EFNY to be a New York movie. More of an LA director’s revenge fantasy of what NYC was like. Not filmed in NYC, except for some throwaway footage. More scenes were filmed in Southern California than NYC. No one in the film has a NY accent. Not a bad flick overall, for what it is: a way for Southern Californian Kurt Russell to reinvent himself as a badass. But not a NY film.

    • Replies: @Mike Zwick
    Yes, but it fed off the public's perception of NY, which was fed from the fact that NY seemed to be going down the toilet. BTW:, there are many movies made in California which are supposed to be in other parts of the country and they screw it up. Million Dollar Baby was supposed to be in Missouri, but there is a scene where Clint Eastwood is knocking on the door of a house with palm trees in the background. Or the movie Uptown Saturday Night, which was supposed to be in Chicago, but the main characters drive out of the city and suddenly they are in a desert area with canyons and chaparral.
  195. @Charles Pewitt
    Ann Coulter sometimes is as sarcastic as red Solo cup guy.

    Ann Coulter grew up in Connecticut and she has some experience of New York City.

    Ann Coulter is more aware of the goings on in NY City than many who haven't lived close by or in the city.

    Tweet from 2015:

    https://twitter.com/CharlesPewitt/status/592667516230574080?s=20

    The tweet isn’t showing up.

  196. @George
    "anecdotes about the “good old days” of NYC, before the NYPD got their act together. "

    Getting their act together:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mollen_Commission

    And even earlier (Shout out to Frank Serpico):
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knapp_Commission

    The Dowd documentary was dead on. NYPD had so many awful precincts a clique of crooked cops like his could do some serious damage. Probably a lot did without anyone caring or noticing. They could barely turn out a platoon on patrol most nights. To work in East NY, being drunk was not unexpected. The 75th Precinct detective squad’s motto was “You give us 22 minutes, we’ll give you a homicide”. Sometimes it was busier than that. I dealt with Dowd professionally as a young ADA; he didn’t look any drunker than anyone else on patrol at that time.

    Grew up and lived my entire life in the badwhite parts of Brooklyn and Queens, with cops, firefighters, Wall Streeters, Catholic school kids. Those areas are much fewer now. The idea in 1989 any sensible person would chose to live in Bushwick or Williamsburgh would be considered insane. I have a client, young badwhite, who saw an opportunity and took it. He now has some 15 properties worth millions rented to silly kids from Ohio and Minnesota, artisanal mayonnaise producers and skateboarders, who have no idea that without Guiliani and NYPD changing things dramatically they would not be here. There were other factors of course; abortion and crack giving way yo opioids. But the most impactful variable was NYPD. It can be so in the negative, which is happening right now.

    • Replies: @George
    "without Guiliani and NYPD"

    The Knapp Commission was Dinkins, who also hired Bratton as transit authority police chief.

    Guiliani's police commissioner was indicted and convicted. What was weird is as far as I can figure out Kerik is the only US official held responsible for the Iraq fiasco. Or maybe he really did just need better tax advice.

    Kerik acknowledged that during the time he was Interior Minister of Iraq, he accepted a $250,000 interest-free "loan" from Israeli billionaire Eitan Wertheimer and failed to report it. Kerik first met the billionaire, whose vast holdings include major defense contractors, when Kerik took a four-day trip to Israel less than two weeks before September 11, 2001 to discuss counter-terrorism with Israeli officials.[22][25]

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernard_Kerik#State_and_federal_investigation,_federal_indictment,_and_conviction
  197. @Anonymous
    I never understood why Rudolph Giuliani never ran for President.

    I never understood why Rudolph Giuliani never ran for President.

    Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rudy_Giuliani) says that Rudy ran in 2008, but withdrew early. His pro-abortion stance (required in NYC) was a disadvantage nationally.

    • Replies: @Dan Hayes
    Jim Don Bob:

    That didn't deter Jr Romney from seamlessly transitioning from a proabortion Massachusetts governor to Republican presidential nominee.
  198. @anonymous
    There are high speed rail lines to Urumqi, Xinjiang and Xining, Qinghai. Both cities are ethnically Han and at the edge of provinces with a a significant Uighur and Tibetan minority respectively.

    In Urumqi the city is even almost 90% Han and Hui. Uighurs from southwest Xinjiang are migrating to Urumqi. That is where 3/4 of Uighurs live and the cities there are overwhelmingly Uighur. Whenever a city is overwhelmingly Uighur the economy sucks and there are no jobs and no future for the youth. These youths migrate to the Chinese parts of Xinjiang. They lived in slums in South Urumqi and built up resentment against the more successful majority. In July 2009 the Uighurs went on a gigantic rampage massacre against Chinese people. Now they reap the whirlwind. China has been kind enough to conduct it's counterinsurgency and interment in the nicest, most non-violent way possible (in the third world context). The Uighurs need to learn about hot to get along with other communities. Something that must be taught to almost all Muslim groups.

    Whats the Chinese word for hasbara?

    • Replies: @anonymous
    You can simply call it sticking up for your people.
  199. @Kronos
    What are the best films that captured NYC crime?

    1) Death Wish Series?
    2) Fort Apache?
    3) The French Connection?

    The “Bonfire of the Vanities” film was awful (I watched it) so it’s disqualified. But it has some imposition from the book.

    https://youtu.be/ZIz_RlNZZlg

    The Taking of Pelham 1 2 3.

  200. @Woodsie
    The Diana Ross concert was a seminal event in NYC history, ripping the mask off of the black community's crime problem. Two years earlier Simon and Garfunkel had their reunion concert on the Great Lawn, and millions of people attended; as many as six million passed through the park during the day, close to the entire population of Manhattan. My wife (girlfriend then) and I attended and somehow met up with my brother and dozens of kids from our hometown in Jersey (I was living in the Bronx at the time). There was no violence. The crowd was mostly white and any 'roving gangs' of color would have been easily seen, isolated, arrested, or beaten. But Diana Ross' show attracted a mostly black audience, and thus hiding in plain sight large gangs of black youths had a free hand, able to disappear anonymously in the crowd and reassemble whenever things got dicey. A few years later we had the Central Park jogger case, and the brutality of the crime elevated what had been happening in the park for years into a national story.

    Now that you mention it, I was at Live Aid in 1985. 100000 white people in scorching hot weather and not an incident of violence I can recall.

  201. I sure wish I’d have experienced that revolutionary crime decrease. Then again, I’ve only lived in New York City since 1985.

    https://nicholasstixuncensored.blogspot.com/2019/02/everyone-knows-that-crime-went-down-for.html

    • Replies: @Lot
    Do you deny that murder and auto theft have gone done a lot? What didn’t go down then?
    , @Charon
    I loved NYC in the 1980s but safe it was not.
  202. @Charon

    Except for witness tampering, murder conspiracy, domestic violence cases, crimes against kids, sex crimes and terror cases
     
    Aww, what's a little witness tampering and murder conspiracy among friends? This time they've gone too far, I tell ya!

    P.S. Is there anyone on this forum who didn't live in NYC in the
    'Good Old Days'?!

    P.S. Is there anyone on this forum who didn’t live in NYC in the ‘Good Old Days’?!

    I didn’t. I was living in NJ.

    I did have relatives in the city, and my dad worked there, so I’d go there often.

    Graffiti-ridden subways. Garbage piled up on the street. Porn shops everywhere. Headlines in the Post about murder and scandal.

    Excuse me, it’s getting a little dusty in here.

    • Replies: @AnonAnon

    I was living in NJ.
     
    Me, too. I went into NYC a few dozen times in the decade I lived in NJ, usually short in and out trips in groups to go to a club, a day wandering around Manhattan, or a Yankees game, sometimes driving, sometimes taking the NJ Transit train. The worse thing I remember is the squeegee guys offering to clean your windshield while you waited in traffic for the tunnel. I remember those “No Radio” signs, too. That was the era of removable radios.
  203. @Paleo Liberal
    There was a lot more to it than that.

    I had some friends who were mixed American Indian and black. They took part in several anti-Columbus marches — with permits — on October 12, 1992.

    I heard multiple eyewitness accounts, in one case backed up by photos taken by some German tourists, that cops (Italians???) were attacking peaceful marchers without any provocation. For whatever reason, the cops were attacking anyone who looked white or looked Indian, but avoiding any contact with anyone who looked black.

    My friends felt that Dinkins had given the orders for cops to stop beating up blacks. They were scared that as soon as Giuliani became mayor, it would be open season.

    There isn’t a word of this comment I believe.

    • Replies: @Paleo Liberal
    Oh, the eyewitnesses were lying and the photos must have been staged with actors pretending to be cops.

    I guess the NYPD were always pure as the driven snow.
    The ex-cop I knew back then who told me stories about massive corruption in the NYPD was lying. As were all the phony busts and investigations of the NYPD.

    Of course, those of us who actually lived there might have a different opinion.
  204. @prosa123
    While Far Rockaway has the projects it also has a large Orthodox community, so it's generally not too bad an area.

    Funny Rockaway story: a month or so after Hurricane Sandy I was working at a merchandising assignment in a newly built supermarket just a bit west in Arverne. There were people in FEMA jackets and official badges by the entrances asking people if they needed disaster assistance. Believe me when I say they were pushier and more annoying than any mall-kiosk cosmetics hustlers. While the idea that FEMA employees would be on quota and paid via commissions seems ludicrous, I swear it must have been the truth.

    • Replies: @explorer
    I worked at the last Ramones NYC appearance at LULUPALOOZA the same one Metallic played at...
  205. @notsaying
    At least in the 1980s and 1990s average white people could still afford to live an appropriately-sized (e.g. a one bedroom for one or two people) in the New York City area. That's not the case anymore.

    While gentrifiers are mostly white, most whites are not gentrifiers. Between the gentrification and the places taken up by new immigrants, there's nothing left for average people. Just the people making big bucks, the ones with parents willing to send a big monthly check or the ones willing to be supported by a sugar daddy or momma.

    I feel sorry for all the kids who would still like a chance to live in a big exciting city for awhile but just can't afford it -- or just aren't willing to make the level of sacrifice that it would require, which is overwhelming these days.

    Nah. I say, they’re not missing much. Just the Metropolitan Museum of Art.

    The people who made NYC exciting–Oscar Hammerstein II, Dick Rodgers, Larry Hart, Jerry Kern, Eugene O’Neill on a good day–are all long gone, as are the movie palaces and the salons of scruffy intellectuals like Phillip Rahv, who earned his “degrees” in the NY Public Library.

    What intellectual and aesthetic excitement is left, and has yet to be disappeared by the Goolag, etc., is right here, on the Internet, at places like this blog (and mine).

    • Agree: JMcG
  206. @Jack D
    Not true. "Generic" brand goods were just a marketing gimmick to give the impression of being low priced in a recessionary period when people were looking for bargains. They were pretty much the same as private label goods always were (and still are) but instead of carrying the store brand they had these B&W labels as if saving a 1/4 of a cent/label on color printing made a difference.

    Maybe somewhere white label things like that are made for normal sale. But everytime I’ve seen them they have a USDA statement on them.

    Here’s some USDA welfare free food delivery products from the 1980s.

    I think they’ve upgraded the labels a little since them.

    • Replies: @Hippopotamusdrome
    http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_oBRbTQRZwVI/TVAVfLb9uHI/AAAAAAAAAp8/Us7rjAJRkfE/s1600/GovernmentSurplusCheeseBox-757415.jpg
    , @Jack D
    If you closely at the USDA labels in your picture, they have some token graphics on them - the plums have a picture of plums, the carrots have a picture of carrots, etc. The 1970s supermarket generics had strictly black and white labels with no pictures at all and a stencil like font - they are clearly distinguishable.
  207. @Nicholas Stix
    I sure wish I'd have experienced that revolutionary crime decrease. Then again, I've only lived in New York City since 1985.

    https://nicholasstixuncensored.blogspot.com/2019/02/everyone-knows-that-crime-went-down-for.html

    Do you deny that murder and auto theft have gone done a lot? What didn’t go down then?

    • Replies: @J.Ross
    The really big thing (in Detroit as well) was to pick a central, potentially commercially significant area, and clean it up to the point where tourists could once again safely spend money.
    , @Nicholas Stix
    This is the first I’m hearing about auto theft going down.

    As for murders, they probably went down during the period of stop-question-frisk, but that period is over. In any event, I have been collecting incidents of “disappeared” murders going back to the 1980s. The NYPD regularly declares murders “suicides,” “accidental deaths,” “fights,” “assaults,” or its public information officers simply “forget” to hang out information backgrounders on murders in the press room at 1 NYPD Plaza, or asserts that a reporter “stole” the press releases. “The job” has also, on occasion, gotten help from the family court system, in burying child abuse murders.

    As the saying goes, when something seems too good to be true, it probably is.

    Then again, if you hit the link I provided and read my articles and those by other crime reporters, you’d know to take the NYPD’s stats with a grain of salt.

    As for auto theft, how would the NYPD reduce GTA? Got a link for that?
  208. Anon[409] • Disclaimer says:

    NYC was laid out not only in a grid, but as tightly as possible so as to squeeze the last drop of real estate value. Other cities have alleys so as to handle things like garbage collection. In NYC they stack their garbage right on the street in front of their houses. Pigs.

  209. @Lot
    Do you deny that murder and auto theft have gone done a lot? What didn’t go down then?

    The really big thing (in Detroit as well) was to pick a central, potentially commercially significant area, and clean it up to the point where tourists could once again safely spend money.

  210. @Alfa158
    I understood that Reservoir Dogs was a scene for scene copy of a Hong Kong crime movie right down to the color names for the criminals.

    Tarentino is famously widely if trashily read and has seen a million movies, but when I saw Charley Varrick with its in-your-face cynicism, its logistical explanations of how organized crime practically works, its self-enclouding racial “honesty,” and its humor, I thought, “Tarentino could’ve gotten his whole style from just this movie.”

  211. @Woodsie
    The Diana Ross concert was a seminal event in NYC history, ripping the mask off of the black community's crime problem. Two years earlier Simon and Garfunkel had their reunion concert on the Great Lawn, and millions of people attended; as many as six million passed through the park during the day, close to the entire population of Manhattan. My wife (girlfriend then) and I attended and somehow met up with my brother and dozens of kids from our hometown in Jersey (I was living in the Bronx at the time). There was no violence. The crowd was mostly white and any 'roving gangs' of color would have been easily seen, isolated, arrested, or beaten. But Diana Ross' show attracted a mostly black audience, and thus hiding in plain sight large gangs of black youths had a free hand, able to disappear anonymously in the crowd and reassemble whenever things got dicey. A few years later we had the Central Park jogger case, and the brutality of the crime elevated what had been happening in the park for years into a national story.

    as many as six million passed through the park during the day, close to the entire population of Manhattan.

    The population of Manhattan was about 1.4 million.

    • Replies: @Woodsie
    OK, I'm thinking I overstated it, but daytime population is much bigger, and I seem to remember the park hosted that equivalent. "There are eight million stories in the Naked City..."
  212. @J.Ross
    Oh come on, what if he was researching strippers?

    what if he was researching strippers?

    This him?

    Ovulatory cycle effects on tip earnings by lap dancers:
    economic evidence for human estrus?

    Geoffrey Miller, Joshua M. Tybur, Brent D. Jordan
    Department of Psychology, University of New Mexico, Albuquerque

    Abstract
    …we examined ovulatory cycle effects on
    tip earnings by professional lap dancers working in gentlemen’s clubs.

    Specifically, we measured the tips earned by
    professional lap dancers in gentlemen’s clubs over a 2-month
    span.

  213. @Lot
    Maybe somewhere white label things like that are made for normal sale. But everytime I’ve seen them they have a USDA statement on them.

    Here’s some USDA welfare free food delivery products from the 1980s.

    https://content.govdelivery.com/attachments/fancy_images/USFNS/2015/06/531932/566717/csfp-food-pkg_crop.png

    I think they’ve upgraded the labels a little since them.

    • Replies: @Lot
    Is that a recently taken pic of 65 year old processed cheese?

    The label is very worn but the pic is pretty sharp and colorful.

    If I were 13 I’d say “I’ll eat that if you pay me $2.”
  214. @Jim Don Bob

    I never understood why Rudolph Giuliani never ran for President.
     
    Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rudy_Giuliani) says that Rudy ran in 2008, but withdrew early. His pro-abortion stance (required in NYC) was a disadvantage nationally.

    Jim Don Bob:

    That didn’t deter Jr Romney from seamlessly transitioning from a proabortion Massachusetts governor to Republican presidential nominee.

    • Replies: @JMcG
    Plus Romneycare! Plus endorsed by the National Review!!!
  215. @craig nelsen
    I moved to Avenue A in 1980 and it is true about Second Ave. Cabs frequently refused to take you past it, especially at night. You had to get out and walk the rest of the way in. I tended bar and, since closing time for (legal) bars was 4 a.m., the streets were usually dead by the time I got home with $20 in my wallet and $100 in my sock. The two long blocks between Ave A and Second Ave felt like twenty and it made sense to have a few drinks at an after hours club before heading home as dawn broke.

    I was mugged two or three times--quickly and efficiently. There wasn't even time for my heart to start racing. Much scarier were the racial attacks. They were a lot more volatile and dangerous. There were always more of them. They were primarily Puerto Rican and, one time, Chinese. I never saw whites attack anyone.

    In one-on-one fights with a POC, you could quickly become outnumbered as passing POC, completely ignorant of the circumstances, rushed to join their co-ethnic. There was only one time that I can remember that a white guy stepped up to keep the fight fair.

    My brother and I once heard a girl screaming and arrived just in time to see a big hulking black guy shuffling down the street in one direction and a Puerto Rican sprinting around the corner in the other direction. A white girl was standing on the sidewalk holding her bleeding face and crying. The black guy and the Puerto Rican had worked as a team to steal her purse. The black guy had walked up and punched her without warning right in the face and the Puerto Rican guy had used the shock to steal her purse and run off down St Marks Place. My brother took off after the Puerto Rican and I took off after the black guy. He ran down Second Ave and turned right on E 3rd St. I rounded after him just in time to see him disappear inside the 8-story soup kitchen / men's shelter in the middle of that block. A few seconds later, his accomplice, coming from the opposite direction, ran up and he, too, darted inside with my brother in pursuit. I could see he was still carrying the white girl's purse, but we weren't going inside that place. There was a cop on the corner, so I ran over to him and explained the situation. The cop, with his badge and gun, was afraid to go in that soup kitchen looking for the criminals. He waited for back up, and then they all still refused to go inside. They had us ride around in a squad car for a while looking for the "perps", even though we all knew they were inside the men's shelter. I felt sorry for that girl and lost a lot of respect for those cops.

    There was a small, tight-knit Ukranian community nearby and the Hell's Angels had their clubhouse one block further east on 3rd St. One night, a Hell's Angel raped a Ukranian girl. The Ukranians formed a posse and trashed that clubhouse and beat the hell out of a bunch of Hell's Angels and found and killed the guy who raped the girl. They didn't put up with shit.

    Ah, good times....

    Unless the Ukrainians were organized crime members, I highly doubt they would beat up a bunch of Hells Angels and kill one without severe retalliation. Only mobsters would even think of messing with the Angels, let alone get away with it.

    • Replies: @JMcG
    The bikers I know are well on the left side of the bell curve.
  216. @The Alarmist

    For example, in the Greenwich Village area, the west side of Second Avenue was okay, but don’t cross Second Avenue! There were legendary Alphabet Avenues on the Lower East Side that few people I talked to had ever walked. There be dragons…
     
    I visited a friend who lived in NYC in the '00s, and took him to Benny's Burritos in Alphabet City, the Lower East side. He spent the entire time on high alert. This was the relatively gentrified Alphabet City post-Guiliani.

    When I first moved to NYC under General Dinkins, Alphabet City was a place you might want to avoid. One night, while hanging in King Tut's Wah Wah Hut with a babe named Chantal, dressed in a chain mail blouse, I realised my friend had disappeared, so I went went wandering into the homeless city called Thompkins Square Park to find him, where I found him shooting up with one of the local denizens.

    But that was child's play compared to having a dozen "youths" set upon me while I was jogging around the Central Park Reservoir on the "safe" Upper East Side.

    Those were some dark times in NYC indeed. Things got infinitely better under Guiliani, but all things must pass.

    Dinkins is peculiar. He was born in Trenton like Scalia and Alito, then went to college and got a degree in math. He moved up the ranks politically and unseated a popular three-term mayor (Ed Koch) in the primary. But it was a real-world example of the Peter Principle. He just couldn’t handle being mayor when he was just fine as Manhattan Borough President.

    He also had a unique way of talking, so much so that Howard Stern came up with this commercial on his TV show.

    • Replies: @Tony
    Worst mayor NYC ever had although some people would argue John Lindsay was the worst.
  217. 1. Surprised to see no mention of the Watchmen movie in this discussion. I haven’t seen Joker but Watchman similarly takes place in a crime-ridden 1980s NYC. It’s also interesting as it links the kind of criminality discussed by commenters here with the (simultaneous) moral breakdown of punk, drugs, the AIDS crisis, etc. In the Police strike scene as a riot starts there’s a great exchange.
    Dan/Nite Owl: what happened to the American dream?
    The comedian: it came true, youre lookin at it
    2. General comment – Disney/marvel are good at making money and selling t shirts, but Joker again is proving the DC characters are simply better

  218. @Paleo Liberal
    My brother went to Columbia in the mid-late 1990s. The first thing everyone was told was never, ever, under any circumstances go inside Morningside Park. Ever. Don’t even think about it.

    In the late 70s he and some friends moved into a building on 122 st. They were large fellows, good for the initial gentrification. That building was mostly black families. The building was owned by one of the worst slumlords in the city — Jewish Theological Seminary. Once there was a fire in the building. The landlord didn’t care. At one point his roommate’s mother called up the Seminary and said: “as a Jew, I am shocked”. Repairs came quickly.

    I do remember getting off the train at 125 st, even after midnight. I was a little over 6’, and my brother was 6’4”, and we were both young and broke.

    “ The building was owned by one of the worst slumlords in the city — Jewish Theological Seminary”

    Some things never change.

    • Replies: @Charon
    Remember Sol Goldman?
  219. @Dan Hayes
    Jim Don Bob:

    That didn't deter Jr Romney from seamlessly transitioning from a proabortion Massachusetts governor to Republican presidential nominee.

    Plus Romneycare! Plus endorsed by the National Review!!!

  220. @Tony
    Unless the Ukrainians were organized crime members, I highly doubt they would beat up a bunch of Hells Angels and kill one without severe retalliation. Only mobsters would even think of messing with the Angels, let alone get away with it.

    The bikers I know are well on the left side of the bell curve.

    • Replies: @Tony
    Which most likely makes them more recklessly violent.
  221. @Marty T
    We will see violent crime increase again in NYC and other cities. Its probably inevitable. As the left fights for restrictions on cops and leniency for criminals, it's only a matter of time. White liberals are too stupid and-or ignorant to understand that the only reason they can live safely in these cities is due to the crackdown of the 80s and 90s. They'll have to learn the hard way.

    Good and hard, one hopes.

  222. @Jack D
    96th Street is where the #2 and 3 express trains peeled off to the northeast toward central Harlem while the #1 Broadway local continued to proceed due north toward relatively safe Morningside Heights. I think that to this day I've never been on a 2 or 3 north of 96th St.

    96 st on the east side was known as the DMZ. Wealthy and/or white people on the south side, housing projects on the north side.

    • Replies: @explorer
    i use to hangout at a bar called Mingles over there....I think 92nd. st. 2ave. My family was from that area Yorkville
    , @Old Palo Altan
    It's 96th and Park Avenue which displays the difference most spectacularly. Or at least did when I was living there in 1991.

    Gaze northwards and all one saw was the maw out of which charged the trains, faced on either side by slums which got worse the further one looked along those tracks. Turn around, and there before one was the splendour of that blissfully wide Park Avenue, lined on either side by apartments blocks of varied architectural worth, but all well-kept and sternly exclusive of all but the richest of the city's denizens. And far in the distance the calmly iconic Helmsley Building elegantly closing the parallel. There is nothing like it anywhere: this was an America to be proud of.

    I know of nowhere else where the gap between rich and poor was so literally displayed, nor so indifferently accepted. People find their level, it seemed to proclaim; get used to it.
  223. @ScarletNumber
    Dinkins is peculiar. He was born in Trenton like Scalia and Alito, then went to college and got a degree in math. He moved up the ranks politically and unseated a popular three-term mayor (Ed Koch) in the primary. But it was a real-world example of the Peter Principle. He just couldn't handle being mayor when he was just fine as Manhattan Borough President.

    He also had a unique way of talking, so much so that Howard Stern came up with this commercial on his TV show.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pQxlzezebCM

    Worst mayor NYC ever had although some people would argue John Lindsay was the worst.

    • Replies: @Nicholas Stix
    What about Bill de Blah Blah Blah, aka Warren Wilhelm Jr., aka Bill de Blasio?
    , @Charon
    Abe Beame. Presided over the slide into the abyss. Lindsay would have been successful but he was a Great White Target for the various unions and ethnic groups who ruled the city. They absolutely (and gleefully) destroyed his mayorality (and half the city) from his first day in office.
    , @Anonymous
    Lindsay gave Mrs. Brady the crabs. That’s pretty low.
    , @sayless
    De Blasio has them both beat.
  224. @ScarletNumber

    By providing bail, you are vouching that this person is not a danger to society and will appear for trial.
     
    This isn't true

    By providing bail, you are vouching that this person is not a danger to society and will appear for trial.

    This isn’t true

    How is that not necessarily implied in what the bail-payer is doing here? I don’t see that.

    • Replies: @ScarletNumber
    When you post bail, you are only guaranteeing that you will show up for trial. How dangerous you are is not part of the equation.
  225. @JMcG
    The bikers I know are well on the left side of the bell curve.

    Which most likely makes them more recklessly violent.

    • Agree: JMcG
  226. @Lot
    Maybe somewhere white label things like that are made for normal sale. But everytime I’ve seen them they have a USDA statement on them.

    Here’s some USDA welfare free food delivery products from the 1980s.

    https://content.govdelivery.com/attachments/fancy_images/USFNS/2015/06/531932/566717/csfp-food-pkg_crop.png

    I think they’ve upgraded the labels a little since them.

    If you closely at the USDA labels in your picture, they have some token graphics on them – the plums have a picture of plums, the carrots have a picture of carrots, etc. The 1970s supermarket generics had strictly black and white labels with no pictures at all and a stencil like font – they are clearly distinguishable.

  227. @Anonymous

    What are the best films that captured NYC crime?

    1) Death Wish Series?
    2) Fort Apache?
    3) The French Connection?
     
    New York City unlike some other major cities doesn’t have alleys. So in TV shows and movies depicting gritty New York City with dark, dangerous alleys they have only one alley to film the scene in.

    https://gothamist.com/arts-entertainment/this-is-the-most-filmed-in-alley-in-nyc

    This Is The Most Filmed In Alley In NYC

    When is the last time you hooked a left into an alley to cut across to the next street? Or to feed a feral cat? Or to stash a backpack? Or to hide from someone, right there, behind one of those dumpsters, crouched in a picturesque layer of fog? New York City is not a city of dark, dangerous, moody alleys, but that has not stopped Hollywood from portraying it as such. And because the vision being brought to the screen isn't a realistic one, when a production needs a New York City alley like this in New York City, they often hit up one of the only real options: Cortlandt Alley...

     

    That was right next to the apartment I temporarily fetched up at in 1999. We called it Piss Alley. You’re right: NYC has almost no alleys.

    • Replies: @Richard P
    There are alleys in Alphabet City and some throughout Williamsburg and Astoria.
  228. NYC was a pleasurable experience for me as I had an extremely active sex life while living there. My sexual experiences were adventurous to say the least. I met many of interesting, beautiful and wild women who were more often than not, damaged beyond repair. Nonetheless, they knew how to have fun — from on the sink in a bathroom at a restaurant in the South Street Seaport to on the rails of the walkway along the East River in Astoria Park. I was the epitome of a bad boy and they loved it.

    Nonetheless, that was part of my past, self-serving life — especially since I’ve become an ardent member of the Russian Orthodox Church.

    • Replies: @SFG
    Somewhere, St. Augustine is looking down. Not sure if he's smiling or not, but he relates.
  229. @slumber_j
    That was right next to the apartment I temporarily fetched up at in 1999. We called it Piss Alley. You're right: NYC has almost no alleys.

    There are alleys in Alphabet City and some throughout Williamsburg and Astoria.

  230. @Bugg
    The Dowd documentary was dead on. NYPD had so many awful precincts a clique of crooked cops like his could do some serious damage. Probably a lot did without anyone caring or noticing. They could barely turn out a platoon on patrol most nights. To work in East NY, being drunk was not unexpected. The 75th Precinct detective squad's motto was "You give us 22 minutes, we'll give you a homicide". Sometimes it was busier than that. I dealt with Dowd professionally as a young ADA; he didn't look any drunker than anyone else on patrol at that time.

    Grew up and lived my entire life in the badwhite parts of Brooklyn and Queens, with cops, firefighters, Wall Streeters, Catholic school kids. Those areas are much fewer now. The idea in 1989 any sensible person would chose to live in Bushwick or Williamsburgh would be considered insane. I have a client, young badwhite, who saw an opportunity and took it. He now has some 15 properties worth millions rented to silly kids from Ohio and Minnesota, artisanal mayonnaise producers and skateboarders, who have no idea that without Guiliani and NYPD changing things dramatically they would not be here. There were other factors of course; abortion and crack giving way yo opioids. But the most impactful variable was NYPD. It can be so in the negative, which is happening right now.

    “without Guiliani and NYPD”

    The Knapp Commission was Dinkins, who also hired Bratton as transit authority police chief.

    Guiliani’s police commissioner was indicted and convicted. What was weird is as far as I can figure out Kerik is the only US official held responsible for the Iraq fiasco. Or maybe he really did just need better tax advice.

    Kerik acknowledged that during the time he was Interior Minister of Iraq, he accepted a $250,000 interest-free “loan” from Israeli billionaire Eitan Wertheimer and failed to report it. Kerik first met the billionaire, whose vast holdings include major defense contractors, when Kerik took a four-day trip to Israel less than two weeks before September 11, 2001 to discuss counter-terrorism with Israeli officials.[22][25]

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernard_Kerik#State_and_federal_investigation,_federal_indictment,_and_conviction

    • Replies: @PiltdownMan
    Bernie Kerik was appointed by police commissioner in 2000, for the last two full years of Rudy Giulian's mayoralty. Kerik used to be on Giuliani's security detail.

    Giuliani's first police commissioner was Bill Bratton, famous for his "broken windows" theory of urban law enforcement, and deserves a good part of the credit for tackling New York City's crime problem inherited from the bad old days. Along with his long-time rival, Ray Kelly, who served under both Dinkins and Bloomberg, they basically transformed New York City into the pretty safe and livable American city that it is today. Bernie Kerik and Howard Safir, who served after Bratton but before Kerik, deserve some credit too.

    But in terms of nationwide public perception, Rudy Giuliani, who came into office with a (well-deserved) tough guy US District Attorney reputation, hogged all the credit for getting rid of crime in NYC.

    Kerik got into all kinds of trouble with the law, starting with the investigation that began when he admitted to having had an illegal as his children's nanny, when he was nominated for Homeland Security Secretary during the George W. Bush administration.
  231. @Joe Stalin
    If only NYC residents could break the mental shackles that prevent them from becoming proper armed civilians:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WdONydDX44I

    And VOTE in people who support "Right to Keep and Bear Arms":

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KGg9zG8GYuk

    Okay, I own a lot of guns, mostly inherited. Some of them are in my Manhattan apartment, but they’re so old and useless to be legally okay. I have others–mostly the functional ones–in a house I own in Connecticut.

    So I have no problem with people owning guns, and I think the Second Amendment means what it says. But here’s the question: is it actually a good idea for a lot of people to have guns in a place like New York City? What would that be like?

    Again: my question isn’t what the Constitution allows, nor whether people should have guns.

    • Replies: @Dan Hayes
    The answer to your query: An armed society is a very polite society!
    , @BB753
    "is it actually a good idea for a lot of people to have guns in a place like New York City? What would that be like?"

    Lots of people actually have guns in New York: the police and criminals. It would only be fair to balance the scales and allow everyone to have guns.
    , @Joe Stalin
    I'm sure you'll agree that Chicago is a lot like New York City with lots of Blacks causing street mayhem, with Hispanics coming in right behind. Until a few years ago, the People's Republic of Illinois had NO concealed carry law, only cops and crooks had guns on the street, with NYC type results of law abiding citizens being victims.

    A Federal judge ruled that the communists had to allow the bearing of arms as the Second Amendment states. So IL finally got concealed carry; you can check the Chicago Tribune's CCL shooting exploration from 9/8/19 (Note that CCL might not have anything to do with the actual shooting, only that the CCL was possessed.):

    https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-concealed-carry-shootings-illinois-database-2019-htmlstory.html

    Thing is, we FINALLY were able to see heart-warming stories like this begin to show up:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZWKss_21yvo

  232. Anonymous[427] • Disclaimer says:

    To some it had a certain appeal:

    A Place That Can’t Exist Again: Blondie’s New York
    4:18

    Meredith Ochs
    Chris Stein / Negative
    Chris Stein / Negative: Me, Blondie, and the Advent of Punk

    by Chris Stein

    Chris Stein’s photos document a New York that is barely recognizable today. It was a time of boom boxes, Xeroxes and smoking indoors, as well as rents that were cheap enough for artists to afford. It was a city in decline that was fertile ground for phenomenal artistic ferment. It’s a fairly well-documented era, but Stein’s vantage point is unique. He landed in Andy Warhol’s world when his high-school band opened up for The Velvet Underground, and later found himself at the epicenter of the downtown music scene which spawned bands like the Ramones, Talking Heads and his own group Blondie.

    Chris Stein also happened to be partners, both in music and in life, with Debbie Harry, Blondie’s lead singer, one of the world’s most iconic beauties. Much of the book is centered on their relationship. Her astounding beauty and shocking style are unavoidable, but Stein also captures everything that makes her one of rock’s coolest frontpersons: the keen ironic sensibility she and Stein shared. Many of the photos subvert female stereotypes: Harry in a fire-singed gown in her kitchen holding a frying pan full of leaping flames, or reading a newspaper with the headline “Women Are Just Slaves.”

    https://www.npr.org/2015/01/05/374385838/a-place-that-cant-exist-again-blondies-new-york

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Is this Meredith Ochs related to Phil or Michael?
  233. Criticism of Joker because it takes lots of inspiration from Taxi Driver, King of Comedy, Chinatown, Network etc is nothing but spiteful Boomertalk. As if those directors themselves were never inspired by directors before them.

    The question is whether Joker the movie doesn’t do anything good with that inspiration and whether it’s just derivative without making something new and fresh from that inspiration.

    Whence does this criticism come? It would be like criticising musicians and bands for having obvious references to artists past. Even the past masters like Haydn, Tchaikovsky or Wagner are more than happy to praise those who inspired them.

    Or to say that Beck utilising the guitar line from Van Morrison’s re-imagining of Bob Dylan’s “It’s all over now baby blue” for the brilliance of Jack Ass is just derivative; modern musicians stealing from boomer greats. Or that the Strokes simply stole their style from Thin Lizzy fused with A-Ha.

    That’s the theatre of the absurd that Camus philosophised in his The Myth of Sisyphus and is a warning that we have finally entered peak Boomer.

    “Without culture, and the relative freedom it implies, society, even when perfect, is but a jungle. This is why any authentic creation is a gift to the future.”

  234. @Kronos
    Did the connection get “stuck” and did you press the refresh button on the internet browser? That’s what happened to me a few months back.

    No, but a similar bug.

  235. @Tony
    Worst mayor NYC ever had although some people would argue John Lindsay was the worst.

    What about Bill de Blah Blah Blah, aka Warren Wilhelm Jr., aka Bill de Blasio?

  236. @slumber_j
    Okay, I own a lot of guns, mostly inherited. Some of them are in my Manhattan apartment, but they're so old and useless to be legally okay. I have others--mostly the functional ones--in a house I own in Connecticut.

    So I have no problem with people owning guns, and I think the Second Amendment means what it says. But here's the question: is it actually a good idea for a lot of people to have guns in a place like New York City? What would that be like?

    Again: my question isn't what the Constitution allows, nor whether people should have guns.

    The answer to your query: An armed society is a very polite society!

    • Replies: @slumber_j
    That's the thinking. But how polite is, for example, Yemen?
  237. @Nicholas Stix
    I sure wish I'd have experienced that revolutionary crime decrease. Then again, I've only lived in New York City since 1985.

    https://nicholasstixuncensored.blogspot.com/2019/02/everyone-knows-that-crime-went-down-for.html

    I loved NYC in the 1980s but safe it was not.

  238. @Tony
    Worst mayor NYC ever had although some people would argue John Lindsay was the worst.

    Abe Beame. Presided over the slide into the abyss. Lindsay would have been successful but he was a Great White Target for the various unions and ethnic groups who ruled the city. They absolutely (and gleefully) destroyed his mayorality (and half the city) from his first day in office.

    • Agree: PiltdownMan
    • Replies: @Alden
    I vaguely remember Lindsay. I had the impression he was last true upper class WASP allied with the black criminals against the Italian Irish etc etc etc middle and working class. Might be wrong. At least that was how he came across in the national news.

    That was when all the academics and liberals were blaming what they called White ethnics for black crime dropping out of school welfare dependency and destruction of American cities.
  239. @Peterike
    “ The building was owned by one of the worst slumlords in the city — Jewish Theological Seminary”

    Some things never change.

    Remember Sol Goldman?

  240. @George
    "without Guiliani and NYPD"

    The Knapp Commission was Dinkins, who also hired Bratton as transit authority police chief.

    Guiliani's police commissioner was indicted and convicted. What was weird is as far as I can figure out Kerik is the only US official held responsible for the Iraq fiasco. Or maybe he really did just need better tax advice.

    Kerik acknowledged that during the time he was Interior Minister of Iraq, he accepted a $250,000 interest-free "loan" from Israeli billionaire Eitan Wertheimer and failed to report it. Kerik first met the billionaire, whose vast holdings include major defense contractors, when Kerik took a four-day trip to Israel less than two weeks before September 11, 2001 to discuss counter-terrorism with Israeli officials.[22][25]

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernard_Kerik#State_and_federal_investigation,_federal_indictment,_and_conviction

    Bernie Kerik was appointed by police commissioner in 2000, for the last two full years of Rudy Giulian’s mayoralty. Kerik used to be on Giuliani’s security detail.

    Giuliani’s first police commissioner was Bill Bratton, famous for his “broken windows” theory of urban law enforcement, and deserves a good part of the credit for tackling New York City’s crime problem inherited from the bad old days. Along with his long-time rival, Ray Kelly, who served under both Dinkins and Bloomberg, they basically transformed New York City into the pretty safe and livable American city that it is today. Bernie Kerik and Howard Safir, who served after Bratton but before Kerik, deserve some credit too.

    But in terms of nationwide public perception, Rudy Giuliani, who came into office with a (well-deserved) tough guy US District Attorney reputation, hogged all the credit for getting rid of crime in NYC.

    Kerik got into all kinds of trouble with the law, starting with the investigation that began when he admitted to having had an illegal as his children’s nanny, when he was nominated for Homeland Security Secretary during the George W. Bush administration.

    • Agree: Dan Hayes
    • Replies: @Dan Hayes
    Bratton got the heave-ho once his public relations department exceeded Giuliani's!
  241. got out of the service in 1985, worked in construction and in television studios in Manhatten for about 20 yrs… it was great….i made a ton of money but blew it all on cocaine… It was a great time in the city…I remember in 86 the Mets took over the town…i thought the crime in the city during the 80s wasn’t bad, a hell of s lot better then the seventies…

  242. @Anonymous
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=69RPEh2tADk

    I worked at the last Ramones NYC appearance at LULUPALOOZA the same one Metallic played at…

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    I met Johnny in passing once but other than that had no contact with them. They were a fun band if you didn't take them too seriously, only a mean spirited louse would have anything against them really.

    I saw them live twice, in St. Louis on the Escape from New York tour and again in Norman, Oklahoma. I can't say they were monumentally great but good for a fun time. Sad they're all gone.

    Radio gave them a shitty deal in my opinion, putting lesser bands in high rotation and locking them out for the most part.

    The best concerts are always ones you think are going to suck, but don't. Rolling Stones Steel Wheels, I figured they were too damn old and jaded to be really any good, and they kicked ass. Pretenders opening for the Who when no one had any idea who they were and they upstaged the main act bigtime. Dick Dale and David Allan Coe, came out and tore the place apart at considerable ages.

    With the Ramones you knew exactly what you were getting and got that every time. Fun but not earthshaking. I think Joan Jett was pretty much that way, too, but I never liked any record she did after the first one. I saw her once and met her in another setting, she was polite and friendly, very professional. I can't dislike her as a person.
  243. @PiltdownMan
    Bernie Kerik was appointed by police commissioner in 2000, for the last two full years of Rudy Giulian's mayoralty. Kerik used to be on Giuliani's security detail.

    Giuliani's first police commissioner was Bill Bratton, famous for his "broken windows" theory of urban law enforcement, and deserves a good part of the credit for tackling New York City's crime problem inherited from the bad old days. Along with his long-time rival, Ray Kelly, who served under both Dinkins and Bloomberg, they basically transformed New York City into the pretty safe and livable American city that it is today. Bernie Kerik and Howard Safir, who served after Bratton but before Kerik, deserve some credit too.

    But in terms of nationwide public perception, Rudy Giuliani, who came into office with a (well-deserved) tough guy US District Attorney reputation, hogged all the credit for getting rid of crime in NYC.

    Kerik got into all kinds of trouble with the law, starting with the investigation that began when he admitted to having had an illegal as his children's nanny, when he was nominated for Homeland Security Secretary during the George W. Bush administration.

    Bratton got the heave-ho once his public relations department exceeded Giuliani’s!

  244. @Tony
    96 st on the east side was known as the DMZ. Wealthy and/or white people on the south side, housing projects on the north side.

    i use to hangout at a bar called Mingles over there….I think 92nd. st. 2ave. My family was from that area Yorkville

    • Replies: @Bugg
    Owned by a friend of a friend, Mulligan, retired FDNY guy. Had a very rough St. Patrick's night there in the 1980s.
  245. @The Alarmist

    For example, in the Greenwich Village area, the west side of Second Avenue was okay, but don’t cross Second Avenue! There were legendary Alphabet Avenues on the Lower East Side that few people I talked to had ever walked. There be dragons…
     
    I visited a friend who lived in NYC in the '00s, and took him to Benny's Burritos in Alphabet City, the Lower East side. He spent the entire time on high alert. This was the relatively gentrified Alphabet City post-Guiliani.

    When I first moved to NYC under General Dinkins, Alphabet City was a place you might want to avoid. One night, while hanging in King Tut's Wah Wah Hut with a babe named Chantal, dressed in a chain mail blouse, I realised my friend had disappeared, so I went went wandering into the homeless city called Thompkins Square Park to find him, where I found him shooting up with one of the local denizens.

    But that was child's play compared to having a dozen "youths" set upon me while I was jogging around the Central Park Reservoir on the "safe" Upper East Side.

    Those were some dark times in NYC indeed. Things got infinitely better under Guiliani, but all things must pass.

    When John Kennedy Jr was about 12 some black kids knocked him off his bike and stole it in Central Park in full view of his secret service men.

  246. @eah
    17 youths were arrested ... roving bands ... a virtual gantlet of young thugs ... "we saw 35 or 40 kids – they were young, 12 to 16 years old ..."

    I see -- well, some things haven't changed, although back then they did have a different common understanding of the word "virtual".

    Fourth Employee Sues NYC Education Department For Anti-White Racism

    Under Carranza’s administration, O.E.A. leadership has normalized an approach that interrogates “whiteness,” defines the supposed homogeneous values of whites as “supremacist and toxic” and denies safety to Caucasians by mocking them as white and “fragile” if they push back in any way when, according to the law, they clearly should too be protected.

    The result of this has been the creation of an unlawful, unsafe and hostile work environment where name-calling and racialized accusations toward white supervisors are condoned. Furthermore, discrimination and retaliation toward white employees — especially white dissenters like me — is intentional.
     

    So what else is new?

  247. a little off topic…………I will never understand how the “Apartments” that sit on top of the road way that leads to the Major Deegen and then on to Yankee Stadium were built……all that weight sits on metal truss that you drive pass. I use to remember driving under and looking straight up at the buildings amazing

    • Replies: @ScarletNumber

    the road way that leads to the Major Deegen and then on to Yankee Stadium were built
     
    The Trans-Manhattan Expressway
    , @Jack D
    What amazes me is that people want to live in those buildings with all the noise and fumes directly below their windows. It is really not much of an engineering feat - in addition to the big trusses spanning the roadway, some of the load of the building comes down on pillars that are in between the traffic lanes. It's really not that different from any high rise except that they run a highway thru the basement.
  248. @PiltdownMan
    I lived in Morningside Heights in Manhattan in the early to mid 1980s, and one of the things that visitors from elsewhere were cautioned against was missing the stop at Columbia University and overshooting to 125th Street, which was in Harlem. It was pretty much understood that a white person who did that stood a pretty significant chance of being mugged or shaken down at that stop, as they tried to make their way from the uptown side platform to the downtown side to come back.

    The more northern areas of Central Park were also a no go area, and the doing a full circuit around the reservoir, especially after mid-afternoon or so, was considered to be a risky proposition. Aside from the Columbia University area, Morningside Heights, it was pretty much understood that 110th Street was the northern boundary for safe streets. I remember the crime statistic much spoken about in those days—Times Square subway station averaged about 40 muggings a night.

    New York City was indeed an edgy kind of place, but as a resident, you just internalized all the rules and cautions, and it was a pretty good life there. Outsiders, however, from the suburbs, were terrified of the place. My brother-in-law, who lived in New Jersey, flat out refused to drive into the city until the late 1980s. And the couple of times he did visit, there was no way I could persuade him to visit CBGB in the Bowery, despite his enlightened interest in punk and new wave.

    http://www.bobgruen.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/R-230_CBGB_Outside1977_Gruen1.jpg

    Jewish liberals and their beloved blacks. That combination destroyed every city they ruled.

  249. A lot of the fiction movies that were set and shot in NYC in the ‘70s were also good documents of that era in the city. “Mean Streets” and “Taxi Driver” … “The French Connection” … “Saturday Night Fever” … “Serpico” and “Dog Day Afternoon” … The “Death Wish” movies … “The Warriors” and “Across 110th St.” … “Superfly” and “Shaft” … Watch ‘em and you’ll see what the city was really like. To be fair, “The Warriors” was like NYC on acid, and was meant to be a trippy hallucinatory action nightmare. But the others show the city pretty straightforwardly. My own favorite “Hey, that’s what NYC was really like back in the ‘70s!” movie has been mentioned a few times in earlier comments: “The Taking of Pelham 1-2-3.” Supereffective thriller and great acting in the lead roles, but also amazingly accurate atmosphere and peopled with hordes of colorful actors and characters of a sort you don’t see around any longer.

    If you’ve got the stomach for it, Friedkin’s 1980 “Cruising” really delivers the atmosphere of the wilder side of the pre-AIDS NYC gay world.

    • Replies: @Anonymous

    If you’ve got the stomach for it, Friedkin’s 1980 “Cruising” really delivers the atmosphere of the wilder side of the pre-AIDS NYC gay world.
     
    Ever seen "The Fluffer"? I watched it in an art house in Chelsea and was the only straight male in the room. They were hooting and hollering like blacks at provocative lines.
  250. I never minded the South Bronx. Had a great time there. But I spent most of my time in boxing gyms and with boxing groupies. The Community has a healthy regard for fighters. Just like being in a Marine uniform in a cholo barrio. Certain types get a pass.

  251. Anonymous[427] • Disclaimer says:
    @explorer
    I worked at the last Ramones NYC appearance at LULUPALOOZA the same one Metallic played at...

    I met Johnny in passing once but other than that had no contact with them. They were a fun band if you didn’t take them too seriously, only a mean spirited louse would have anything against them really.

    I saw them live twice, in St. Louis on the Escape from New York tour and again in Norman, Oklahoma. I can’t say they were monumentally great but good for a fun time. Sad they’re all gone.

    Radio gave them a shitty deal in my opinion, putting lesser bands in high rotation and locking them out for the most part.

    The best concerts are always ones you think are going to suck, but don’t. Rolling Stones Steel Wheels, I figured they were too damn old and jaded to be really any good, and they kicked ass. Pretenders opening for the Who when no one had any idea who they were and they upstaged the main act bigtime. Dick Dale and David Allan Coe, came out and tore the place apart at considerable ages.

    With the Ramones you knew exactly what you were getting and got that every time. Fun but not earthshaking. I think Joan Jett was pretty much that way, too, but I never liked any record she did after the first one. I saw her once and met her in another setting, she was polite and friendly, very professional. I can’t dislike her as a person.

    • Replies: @slumber_j
    Steel Wheels tour: emphatically, yes! I saw them at the LA Coliseum, where they were playing for like a week I think, with Guns 'n Roses opening (which they did only for those LA dates). A girlfriend worked at Paramount, and there were tickets floating around there, and she asked me that day if I wanted to go: whatever, why not, I thought.

    GNR were unbelievably, earth-shatteringly great. Then the Stones came on, seemingly doomed by their age, their shopworn feel, and especially what had just happened on that stage. But no.
  252. @Anonymous
    I never understood why Rudolph Giuliani never ran for President.

    He was running at some point but he got cancer and had to deal with it. I think it was when Obama and Hildabeast ran against each other in the primaries.

  253. Anonymous[427] • Disclaimer says:
    @Paleo Retiree
    A lot of the fiction movies that were set and shot in NYC in the ‘70s were also good documents of that era in the city. “Mean Streets” and “Taxi Driver” ... “The French Connection” ... “Saturday Night Fever” ... “Serpico” and “Dog Day Afternoon” ... The “Death Wish” movies ... “The Warriors” and “Across 110th St.” ... “Superfly” and “Shaft” ... Watch ‘em and you’ll see what the city was really like. To be fair, “The Warriors” was like NYC on acid, and was meant to be a trippy hallucinatory action nightmare. But the others show the city pretty straightforwardly. My own favorite “Hey, that’s what NYC was really like back in the ‘70s!” movie has been mentioned a few times in earlier comments: “The Taking of Pelham 1-2-3.” Supereffective thriller and great acting in the lead roles, but also amazingly accurate atmosphere and peopled with hordes of colorful actors and characters of a sort you don’t see around any longer.

    If you’ve got the stomach for it, Friedkin’s 1980 “Cruising” really delivers the atmosphere of the wilder side of the pre-AIDS NYC gay world.

    If you’ve got the stomach for it, Friedkin’s 1980 “Cruising” really delivers the atmosphere of the wilder side of the pre-AIDS NYC gay world.

    Ever seen “The Fluffer”? I watched it in an art house in Chelsea and was the only straight male in the room. They were hooting and hollering like blacks at provocative lines.

    • Replies: @Richard P
    How about Santa Con and it's cult-like following of a bunch of freaks? This was an underground gathering in Brooklyn.
  254. @JMcG
    Whats the Chinese word for hasbara?

    You can simply call it sticking up for your people.

  255. @Anonymous

    If you’ve got the stomach for it, Friedkin’s 1980 “Cruising” really delivers the atmosphere of the wilder side of the pre-AIDS NYC gay world.
     
    Ever seen "The Fluffer"? I watched it in an art house in Chelsea and was the only straight male in the room. They were hooting and hollering like blacks at provocative lines.

    How about Santa Con and it’s cult-like following of a bunch of freaks? This was an underground gathering in Brooklyn.

  256. anonymous[405] • Disclaimer says:
    @Kevin O'Keeffe

    Uighurs are bad people. In July 2009, over 1,000+ Uighurs went on a rampage of murder against Chinese people in the city of Urumqi.
     
    Maybe they just don't like being ruled by the Chinese, and would prefer to have their own nation?

    Here are my reasons for why Uighur aspirations are illegitimate and the Chinese clampdown is legitimate.

    Uighurs

    1. Uighurs are within the internationally recognized borders of China. Pragmatic people whether they sympathize with Uighurs or not accept this fact and understand support for Uighur secession leads to violence because of the immovable will of the state to keep it’s territorial integrity. So a secession movement should be avoided as a folly. For a lot of hawkish Americans violence without end is desired because China is regarded as a rival that has to be destabilized. If that’s your underlying position, then you should be forthright and admit it.
    2. It’s common for races and ethnic groups to want to rule themselves. The problem with Uighurs is they are more violent than other groups because they are Muslims. During the height of the insurgency in 2014 two truck bombs driven by Uighur insurgents blew up a market in Urumqi and killed scores of people. They are now reaping the whirlwind.

    Chinese

    1. Counterinsurgency in third world countries are usually dreadful affairs involving death squads. This one has been based on technology and mass internment without reports of excess deaths at the hands of security forces outside of riots. The counterinsurgency has been highly successfully in winding down the conflict.
    2. China is offering the Uighurs a Puerto Rico like carrot to swear off insurgency. Large scale transfers are offered to eventually bring Uighurs up to a first world standard of living (when China reaches that level of development). I predict within 20 years, most Uighurs like most Puerto Ricans will support union because it means so much to their standard of living. However, unlike Puerto Ricans, Uighurs don’t contribute infantry for wars so they are a drain to China. (Personally I wish they had their own country because China is weaker with them.)
    3. Also personally I don’t support the mass internment. I’m not sure why it started in 2017 when the insurgency had been defeated. However, there may be concern that thousands of Uighur fighters in Syria supported by Turkey have survived the war and some will return to China to blow up subway cars. I am assuming there is some kind of terrorism concern that motivates this extraordinary turn.

  257. anonymous[405] • Disclaimer says:
    @Oleaginous Outrager

    Urumqi is a 90% Han/Hui city created by Chinese people.
     
    Two lies in one sentence. Well done.

    Without oil or outside subsidy, Uighur lands would be poor as Tajikistan.
     
    The same is true of Alaska.

    It was Uighurs who decided to get in the face of Chinese people by migrating to Urumqi
     
    "In the People's Republic era, an active program to resettle Han population in Xinjiang was initiated. In 1960, there were 76,496 Uyghurs and 477,321 Han in Urumqi."

    ChiCom shills are less clever than Soros shills, and that's a very low bar.

    According to the census, Urumqi is a 90% Chinese city (Han and Hui and other well assimilated ethnic groups). What is incorrect and can you back it up?

    If Alaska had no natural resources and just some Eskimo settlements, then it would likely be a poor place. But what is the point of bringing this up?

    Urumqi existed before 1947 as a town. Now it’s a major metropolis. It was built by Chinese. There are other settlements in the Uighur heartland in the west of Xinjiang but these settlements were a handful of self contained cities designed to space people out and avoid conflict. Xinjiang is a huge area and the handful of cities in the Uighur heartland doesn’t amounts to a mass colonization. Kashgar and Hotan after all are still 95% Uighur.

  258. @Lot
    Do you deny that murder and auto theft have gone done a lot? What didn’t go down then?

    This is the first I’m hearing about auto theft going down.

    As for murders, they probably went down during the period of stop-question-frisk, but that period is over. In any event, I have been collecting incidents of “disappeared” murders going back to the 1980s. The NYPD regularly declares murders “suicides,” “accidental deaths,” “fights,” “assaults,” or its public information officers simply “forget” to hang out information backgrounders on murders in the press room at 1 NYPD Plaza, or asserts that a reporter “stole” the press releases. “The job” has also, on occasion, gotten help from the family court system, in burying child abuse murders.

    As the saying goes, when something seems too good to be true, it probably is.

    Then again, if you hit the link I provided and read my articles and those by other crime reporters, you’d know to take the NYPD’s stats with a grain of salt.

    As for auto theft, how would the NYPD reduce GTA? Got a link for that?

    • Replies: @Paleo Liberal
    As I found out from experience in 1999, the point of reporting auto theft was to have a police report to send to the insurance company.

    So a decrease in reported auto thefts really could be due to fewer auto thefts.

    As for murder rates, it is quite probable that fake stats are driving the supposed rates of violent crime down. The pressures on the precincts to get their numbers down was real. But is a drop of 80-90% in the murder rate really that easy? And doesn’t gentrification mean less violent people are replacing more violent people?
  259. @Anonymous
    To some it had a certain appeal:



    A Place That Can't Exist Again: Blondie's New York
    4:18


    Meredith Ochs
    Chris Stein / Negative
    Chris Stein / Negative: Me, Blondie, and the Advent of Punk

    by Chris Stein


    Chris Stein's photos document a New York that is barely recognizable today. It was a time of boom boxes, Xeroxes and smoking indoors, as well as rents that were cheap enough for artists to afford. It was a city in decline that was fertile ground for phenomenal artistic ferment. It's a fairly well-documented era, but Stein's vantage point is unique. He landed in Andy Warhol's world when his high-school band opened up for The Velvet Underground, and later found himself at the epicenter of the downtown music scene which spawned bands like the Ramones, Talking Heads and his own group Blondie.

    Chris Stein also happened to be partners, both in music and in life, with Debbie Harry, Blondie's lead singer, one of the world's most iconic beauties. Much of the book is centered on their relationship. Her astounding beauty and shocking style are unavoidable, but Stein also captures everything that makes her one of rock's coolest frontpersons: the keen ironic sensibility she and Stein shared. Many of the photos subvert female stereotypes: Harry in a fire-singed gown in her kitchen holding a frying pan full of leaping flames, or reading a newspaper with the headline "Women Are Just Slaves."
     
    https://www.npr.org/2015/01/05/374385838/a-place-that-cant-exist-again-blondies-new-york

    Is this Meredith Ochs related to Phil or Michael?

  260. @Tony
    Worst mayor NYC ever had although some people would argue John Lindsay was the worst.

    Lindsay gave Mrs. Brady the crabs. That’s pretty low.

  261. @slumber_j
    Okay, I own a lot of guns, mostly inherited. Some of them are in my Manhattan apartment, but they're so old and useless to be legally okay. I have others--mostly the functional ones--in a house I own in Connecticut.

    So I have no problem with people owning guns, and I think the Second Amendment means what it says. But here's the question: is it actually a good idea for a lot of people to have guns in a place like New York City? What would that be like?

    Again: my question isn't what the Constitution allows, nor whether people should have guns.

    “is it actually a good idea for a lot of people to have guns in a place like New York City? What would that be like?”

    Lots of people actually have guns in New York: the police and criminals. It would only be fair to balance the scales and allow everyone to have guns.

  262. @Reg Cæsar

    It was amazing how quickly some neighborhoods could change.
     
    Wouldn't neighborhoods in which rentals are the rule be more susceptible to rapid change than those with a large proportion of individual homeowners? For better or worse.

    There are fewer owners, often absentee, to resist change. Thus, rapid ghettoization, then, generations later, rapid gentrification.

    In Chicago some rentals seem to be holdouts in the gentrification process. They are the ones with small units which are not popular with condo buyers, and don’t make good luxury rentals.

  263. @ScarletNumber

    By providing bail, you are vouching that this person is not a danger to society and will appear for trial.
     
    This isn't true

    It should be. Rather than just wagering the bail money that they’ll show up.

  264. @ScarletNumber

    as many as six million passed through the park during the day, close to the entire population of Manhattan.
     
    The population of Manhattan was about 1.4 million.

    OK, I’m thinking I overstated it, but daytime population is much bigger, and I seem to remember the park hosted that equivalent. “There are eight million stories in the Naked City…”

    • Replies: @Hibernian
    The eight million almost certainly referred, in round numbers, to the combined population of all five boroughs.
  265. @Woodsie
    RE: Dinkins. The Crown Heights riots ruined him. I moved out of the city around then, and was still a committed liberal, but remember thinking I would have voted for Rudy in the next election. I wasn't a Rudy fan, but the visual of Dinkins literally "wringing his hands" on TV talking about the riots was an image of someone without leadership skills. He was pathetic.

    Without leadership skills and/or sympathetic to the criminals.

  266. @Dan Hayes
    The answer to your query: An armed society is a very polite society!

    That’s the thinking. But how polite is, for example, Yemen?

  267. @Alfa158
    I understood that Reservoir Dogs was a scene for scene copy of a Hong Kong crime movie right down to the color names for the criminals.

    The plot line of The Departed, with the good and bad guys each having a mole among the others ranks, was from a Hong Kong film, Infernal Affairs.

  268. @JMcG
    There isn’t a word of this comment I believe.

    Oh, the eyewitnesses were lying and the photos must have been staged with actors pretending to be cops.

    I guess the NYPD were always pure as the driven snow.
    The ex-cop I knew back then who told me stories about massive corruption in the NYPD was lying. As were all the phony busts and investigations of the NYPD.

    Of course, those of us who actually lived there might have a different opinion.

  269. @Nicholas Stix
    This is the first I’m hearing about auto theft going down.

    As for murders, they probably went down during the period of stop-question-frisk, but that period is over. In any event, I have been collecting incidents of “disappeared” murders going back to the 1980s. The NYPD regularly declares murders “suicides,” “accidental deaths,” “fights,” “assaults,” or its public information officers simply “forget” to hang out information backgrounders on murders in the press room at 1 NYPD Plaza, or asserts that a reporter “stole” the press releases. “The job” has also, on occasion, gotten help from the family court system, in burying child abuse murders.

    As the saying goes, when something seems too good to be true, it probably is.

    Then again, if you hit the link I provided and read my articles and those by other crime reporters, you’d know to take the NYPD’s stats with a grain of salt.

    As for auto theft, how would the NYPD reduce GTA? Got a link for that?

    As I found out from experience in 1999, the point of reporting auto theft was to have a police report to send to the insurance company.

    So a decrease in reported auto thefts really could be due to fewer auto thefts.

    As for murder rates, it is quite probable that fake stats are driving the supposed rates of violent crime down. The pressures on the precincts to get their numbers down was real. But is a drop of 80-90% in the murder rate really that easy? And doesn’t gentrification mean less violent people are replacing more violent people?

  270. @Anonymous
    I met Johnny in passing once but other than that had no contact with them. They were a fun band if you didn't take them too seriously, only a mean spirited louse would have anything against them really.

    I saw them live twice, in St. Louis on the Escape from New York tour and again in Norman, Oklahoma. I can't say they were monumentally great but good for a fun time. Sad they're all gone.

    Radio gave them a shitty deal in my opinion, putting lesser bands in high rotation and locking them out for the most part.

    The best concerts are always ones you think are going to suck, but don't. Rolling Stones Steel Wheels, I figured they were too damn old and jaded to be really any good, and they kicked ass. Pretenders opening for the Who when no one had any idea who they were and they upstaged the main act bigtime. Dick Dale and David Allan Coe, came out and tore the place apart at considerable ages.

    With the Ramones you knew exactly what you were getting and got that every time. Fun but not earthshaking. I think Joan Jett was pretty much that way, too, but I never liked any record she did after the first one. I saw her once and met her in another setting, she was polite and friendly, very professional. I can't dislike her as a person.

    Steel Wheels tour: emphatically, yes! I saw them at the LA Coliseum, where they were playing for like a week I think, with Guns ‘n Roses opening (which they did only for those LA dates). A girlfriend worked at Paramount, and there were tickets floating around there, and she asked me that day if I wanted to go: whatever, why not, I thought.

    GNR were unbelievably, earth-shatteringly great. Then the Stones came on, seemingly doomed by their age, their shopworn feel, and especially what had just happened on that stage. But no.

  271. @DodgUSA24
    I never knew pre-Rudy NYC - too young. But Manhattan of the early-mid 2000s (before the financial crisis) was the most amazing place. Always felt safe. Even girls would walk around by themselves at 2 in the morning. Plethora of things to do. Good times. I hear it's different now though.... more diversity, more billionaires, more lawlessness. Not as much the ultimate post-college playground as it was back then. No way Rudy could win today with the current demographics of NYC.

    Except for a couple of years in the late 1990s, I was in NYC from late 1983 until shortly after the WTC attack.

    For me the absolute best time in NYC was the tail end of the dot com era. Rents were still cheap, crime was down, and jobs were plentiful.

    Housing costs went up quite a bit in the early to mid 1980s, but were pretty flat for about 15 years afterwards.

    The big reason why so many of us spent time in NYC in the old days was it was possible for young people to afford to live there. Until recently, it has always been possible for young people starting out to live a decent life in NYC, even in Manhattan.

    My paternal grandmother lived in Greenwich Village when she met my grandfather. My mother lived in Greenwich Village when she met my father. I lived in Greenwich Village when I met my wife. My brother lived in Chelsea when he met his wife. We all moved to outer boroughs or Nassau County or both after marriage.

    But the rents are so high these days, people struggle to survive in the worst parts of Brooklyn.

  272. @Richard P
    NYC was a pleasurable experience for me as I had an extremely active sex life while living there. My sexual experiences were adventurous to say the least. I met many of interesting, beautiful and wild women who were more often than not, damaged beyond repair. Nonetheless, they knew how to have fun -- from on the sink in a bathroom at a restaurant in the South Street Seaport to on the rails of the walkway along the East River in Astoria Park. I was the epitome of a bad boy and they loved it.

    Nonetheless, that was part of my past, self-serving life -- especially since I've become an ardent member of the Russian Orthodox Church.

    Somewhere, St. Augustine is looking down. Not sure if he’s smiling or not, but he relates.

  273. @Mr McKenna
    The 80s (and early 90s) in NYC had to be lived to be believed. No one I tell about it believes it any more. Even then and there, you couldn't tell GoodWhites what was going on. They'd deny their own muggings if they could. "It's the fear of crime that's the real problem," went the refrain. BS! It was the crime. And yeah, as PR says above, we quickly learned not to report crime to the cops. Some were sympathetic but many just treated you as another form of criminal, making work for them.

    I grew up there, left around the turn of the millennium (career purposes). I registered to vote for the first time to reelect Rudy Giuliani (before that I was too young). I remember not being able to go out too late, my mom getting mugged 2 blocks from where I lived, avoiding various landmarks such as Times Square and so on.

    I remember the city getting safer in the 90s thanks to the mean old mayor who made the trains run on time. It’s the reason I never bought the blank slate (particularly on race) and am way more sympathetic to cops than I should be, as well as never really being able to be a liberal on law and order issues. As I get older and find myself drifting right, it feels less like losing my illusions and more like coming home.

    But I was young and cowardly, so I don’t have any fun stories about doing drugs in the East Village with strippers or seeing punk bands perform. There was a vague notion that there were things going on in the Village that were dangerous and edgy, but I wouldn’t have dared go anywhere near them–I figured I’d wind up getting knifed or raped in the back room of some bar. It was like some kind of Lovecraftian area where even knowing too much risks your sanity.

    I suspect part of the attraction to many here is that New York in the 80s was involved with punk, which was the last avant-garde movement to be predominantly white. After that, there’s hip-hop (though that started at the same time, it didn’t become culturally dominant until the mid-90s).

  274. Four dead in a Brooklyn nightclub/social club shooting just a few hours ago.

  275. @TWS
    And thus, we have the society you and others like you have bequeathed us. May your chains lay lightly on you.

    Sometimes I wonder how the government cons enough macho meatheads into joining the armed forces to fight for foreign countries.

    Then I’m reminded of the ubiquity of Tradcon fools who think it is their duty to fight strangers in the streets to protect a fair damsel and it all makes sense

    America will always have enough cannon fodder

    • Replies: @TWS
    But not you. You're too smart to fight for you and yours. Good on you. A man's got to know his limitations.
  276. @Charon

    The only place he could find acceptance was in Harlem where his dark skin did not stand out
     
    Oh please. My middle school in suburban Pennsylvania had several subcontinent Indians and they fit in just fine. One was even a good friend of mine. Of course this was the 70s and maybe you're talking about the 40s.

    Yes, the ’40s. Most of us can’t remember pre-1965 America where non-European immigrants were vanishingly rare. There was little or no quota for places like India so the only Indians were ship jumpers and such like this guy.

    • Agree: Johann Ricke
  277. @slumber_j
    Okay, I own a lot of guns, mostly inherited. Some of them are in my Manhattan apartment, but they're so old and useless to be legally okay. I have others--mostly the functional ones--in a house I own in Connecticut.

    So I have no problem with people owning guns, and I think the Second Amendment means what it says. But here's the question: is it actually a good idea for a lot of people to have guns in a place like New York City? What would that be like?

    Again: my question isn't what the Constitution allows, nor whether people should have guns.

    I’m sure you’ll agree that Chicago is a lot like New York City with lots of Blacks causing street mayhem, with Hispanics coming in right behind. Until a few years ago, the People’s Republic of Illinois had NO concealed carry law, only cops and crooks had guns on the street, with NYC type results of law abiding citizens being victims.

    A Federal judge ruled that the communists had to allow the bearing of arms as the Second Amendment states. So IL finally got concealed carry; you can check the Chicago Tribune’s CCL shooting exploration from 9/8/19 (Note that CCL might not have anything to do with the actual shooting, only that the CCL was possessed.):

    https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-concealed-carry-shootings-illinois-database-2019-htmlstory.html

    Thing is, we FINALLY were able to see heart-warming stories like this begin to show up:

  278. @The Germ Theory of Disease
    One of the things that goes oddly unspoken and unrecognized in all the reminiscing about the horrors of the "good old days" in NYC is the tremendous waste of time, energy, and human social and mental capital that was caused by normal productive White people having to constantly twist their lives completely in knots simply to avoid the dangers posed by violent, stupid, oversexed, thuggish, criminal POC. New York attracts many of the most creative, inventive, energetic people from around the entire world, and they had to spend half of their time and energy worrying about how not to get raped and murdered. Think of how much didn't get done.

    Think of all the work that didn't get done because you couldn't live safely in the area adjacent to your workplace. Think of all the places people couldn't go, things they couldn't do, entire neighborhoods where nobody normal could live in peace and quiet, absurd inconvenient commutes, pleasant activities which a normal sane person simply could not do at X or Y hour of the day or night -- all because POC couldn't be bothered to restrain or behave themselves.

    Think of a place like Harlem (a fine old Swahili word, Harlem, famous for its grand African architecture). Marvelous well-built convenient housing stock in the northern sector of the greatest city in America, all of it rendered completely uninhabitable for most of the 20th century. And what did we get in return? A couple of so-so Langston Hughes poems.

    And these worthless excuses are the ones now grousing about "gentrification" and "colonization" and other made-up nonsense.

    You better believe I'm not going to touch your hair.

    Couldn’t agree more, Germ Theory. Every time I stepped outside I was aware of the threat.

    One of the librarians at the Mid-Manhattan library was upset one day. “What’s wrong, Joe?”

    The director of his bel canto group had been murdered for his wallet. That one still enrages me.

    • Replies: @Nicholas Stix
    What year was that?
  279. @Alfa158
    I understood that Reservoir Dogs was a scene for scene copy of a Hong Kong crime movie right down to the color names for the criminals.

    It was also a copy of a 1950’s Kubrick film The Killing which was a copy of an earlier film Clean Break.

  280. @Blodgie
    I hope you have since learned that this type of macho white-knighting is stupid and can get you killed.

    How do you know she wasn't a whore holding out on her pimp?

    Foolish behavior on your part.

    Pimps don’t live in homeless shelters. They live in their own apartments or in the projects wi dey mammas. And it’s one pimp, two to four or five girls, not 2 pimps 1 girl.

  281. @Charon
    Abe Beame. Presided over the slide into the abyss. Lindsay would have been successful but he was a Great White Target for the various unions and ethnic groups who ruled the city. They absolutely (and gleefully) destroyed his mayorality (and half the city) from his first day in office.

    I vaguely remember Lindsay. I had the impression he was last true upper class WASP allied with the black criminals against the Italian Irish etc etc etc middle and working class. Might be wrong. At least that was how he came across in the national news.

    That was when all the academics and liberals were blaming what they called White ethnics for black crime dropping out of school welfare dependency and destruction of American cities.

    • Replies: @Dan Hayes
    Alden:

    Lindsay was a WASP version of Mayor de Blasio.

    Lindsay's first term as mayor started with a major subway strike led by the irascible Mike Quill. It was downhill from there on in.

    Lindsay's presidential ambitions ended with a plane in Florida towing an anti-Lindsay banner in Yiddish!
    , @Lot
    Alden, you are my favorite new commenter here. I picture a late 50s white-nationalist more curmudgeonly Marcia Clark. I’d totally watch an autobiographical sitcom you write. Steve can co-write and Jack D serve as your agent and Jewish frontman.

    Think about it.
  282. @Tony
    Worst mayor NYC ever had although some people would argue John Lindsay was the worst.

    De Blasio has them both beat.

  283. @explorer
    a little off topic............I will never understand how the "Apartments" that sit on top of the road way that leads to the Major Deegen and then on to Yankee Stadium were built......all that weight sits on metal truss that you drive pass. I use to remember driving under and looking straight up at the buildings amazing

    the road way that leads to the Major Deegen and then on to Yankee Stadium were built

    The Trans-Manhattan Expressway

    • Replies: @Hibernian
    The Trans-Manhattan Expressway was never built; I think you mean Cross Bronx Expressway.
  284. @slumber_j

    By providing bail, you are vouching that this person is not a danger to society and will appear for trial.

     


    This isn’t true
     
    How is that not necessarily implied in what the bail-payer is doing here? I don't see that.

    When you post bail, you are only guaranteeing that you will show up for trial. How dangerous you are is not part of the equation.

    • Replies: @Hibernian
    It should determine whether or not you can be bailed out and if so how high the bail will be. Flight risk should also be considered. Both of these things historically have been considered, but now the latest trend is to open wide the doors of the jails.
  285. @Bragadocious

    before the NYPD got their act together

     

    It's a myth that the NYPD suddenly "got their act together" in the 90s. I've said this before, but what really happened is that tens of thousands of Puerto Ricans left the city. And many more whites moved back in. That brought crime down. The NYPD hasn't changed much over the years. They're never there when you need them, won't help you when you're mugged and basically consider any interaction with law-abiding citizens as a massive headache. I mean really, does anyone think that cops suddenly became Marvel Comic action heroes beginning in 1993?

    So true! Excellent summaryof the corrupt useless way overpaid NYPD

  286. @Bragadocious
    I don't consider EFNY to be a New York movie. More of an LA director's revenge fantasy of what NYC was like. Not filmed in NYC, except for some throwaway footage. More scenes were filmed in Southern California than NYC. No one in the film has a NY accent. Not a bad flick overall, for what it is: a way for Southern Californian Kurt Russell to reinvent himself as a badass. But not a NY film.

    Yes, but it fed off the public’s perception of NY, which was fed from the fact that NY seemed to be going down the toilet. BTW:, there are many movies made in California which are supposed to be in other parts of the country and they screw it up. Million Dollar Baby was supposed to be in Missouri, but there is a scene where Clint Eastwood is knocking on the door of a house with palm trees in the background. Or the movie Uptown Saturday Night, which was supposed to be in Chicago, but the main characters drive out of the city and suddenly they are in a desert area with canyons and chaparral.

    • Replies: @Paleo Liberal
    Could be worse.

    There is a Jackie Chan movie that takes place in the Bronx, but was filmed in Vancouver. There are mountains in the background for much of the movie.
    , @Alden
    7even Kevin Spacey as a sadistic serial killer Morgan Freeman as the wise old detective 20 years past retirement age.

    The end featured Freeman and partner driving out through upstate New York to catch the villain. The landscape must have been in the Nevada desert so different from blazing beautiful green NY State. The city scenes were authentic north east November gray cold lots of rain warm coats. Then out into the blazing sun and beige desert

    A movie starring Sean Connery. Story was a WW 2 attack on a German castle by air. Obviously filmed in either desert mountains of Spain or American Southwest. Only foliage dead brown 8 inch tall scrub in beige sand . German mountains are so green they’re blueish

    Those 2 Musketeers movies with Michael York. Set in northwest France a green green rainy rainy place. Filmed in the driest brownest desert in Spain

    Maybe the industry people are all native California desert dwellers who don’t realize the rest of the world isn’t a desert.
    , @Alden
    The movie The Untouchables with Sean Connery and Kevin Costner was set in Chicago and green Illinois. Then they went up to the green green forested Michigan Canada border to ambush some bootleggers. It was filmed in S California desert mountains beige dirt brown scrub a few eucalyptus trees.
  287. @Bragadocious

    before the NYPD got their act together

     

    It's a myth that the NYPD suddenly "got their act together" in the 90s. I've said this before, but what really happened is that tens of thousands of Puerto Ricans left the city. And many more whites moved back in. That brought crime down. The NYPD hasn't changed much over the years. They're never there when you need them, won't help you when you're mugged and basically consider any interaction with law-abiding citizens as a massive headache. I mean really, does anyone think that cops suddenly became Marvel Comic action heroes beginning in 1993?

    I remember a story in Time or Newsweek about the relocation of Puerto Ricans from NYC to small towns in Pennsylvania. Their welfare benefits were just transferred to Pennsylvania.

    The story was mostly about the evil White native Pennsylvanians being dubious about their wonderful vibrant new neighbors.

    So dump the NYC trash somewhere else.

  288. @prosa123
    Dinkins was a terrible mayor and crime was out of control but black voters don’t support “getting tough on crime” because their kids are the ones committing it. This remains true today.

    Which is faulty reasoning, because the black voters or their family members are also the main victims of crime.

    Black victims of black criminals deserve their victimization. Let the blacks rob beat murder and rape each other.

  289. @Realist
    OT: Will Americans ever find their balls?

    https://babylonbee.com/news/new-law-would-force-drivers-to-listen-to-greta-thunberg-lecture-before-filling-up-their-cars

    The Babylon Bee is satire. It’s a conservative version of The Onion.

    • Replies: @Realist

    The Babylon Bee is satire. It’s a conservative version of The Onion.
     
    Thanks, I know, I was trying to make it sound plausible.
  290. @Mike Zwick
    People don't remember that it was so bad in NYC that many people at the time cheered on Bernard Goetz? There is a whole group of movies that were made just around NYC crime, Death Wish, Fort Apache The Bronx etc.. It also inspired Escape from New York, which had the premise that it got so bad, they just made New York City into a giant prison. Could you imagine these movies being made today?

    At first Goetz was lauded, but then he acted arrogant about the incident, and it was discovered that he made derogatory comments at a neighborhood watch meeting. That turned the public against him.

    • Replies: @Nicholas Stix
    My recollection is that, outside of the Bronx, people never turned on Goetz, and the racist blacks and Hispanics in the Bronx never showed him any sympathy.
  291. Reminds me of the good old days. In the early 60s I lived on the Lower East Side, 3rd Street between First and Second. I hardly ever went to the Alphabet avenues, but one evening I went to meet a friend at some seedy jazz place there. Just outside I was accosted by a short muscular black guy who kept saying “Gimme a dime” and I kept saying “I don’t have a dime”. Neither of us was ready to give in. Suddenly, two enormous black guys came out and picked up the short guy by his elbows, walked a ways with him, and then threw him down the street.

    The next evening I happened to be watching the local news on TV. There was a story about someone who had accosted a person in Port Authority for money, and when he was refused, had shot him. There was a picture. It was my short black friend.

  292. In the UK big cities like London and Manchester are unaffordable for young Whites who now stay where they were raised. Mobility is over for White people.

    This has profound consequences.

  293. @Paleo Retiree
    I moved to NYC in the late ‘70s. In my first five years there, I was pickpocketed twice, mugged twice and physically attacked once. Now, admittedly, I was a smalltown rube spending a lot of late-night time in rough neighborhoods where there were punk rock clubs and hip parties, but still. It was an era when you pretty much had to know the city block by block in order to know where’d you be safe and where you’d be likely to get in trouble. These days nearly all of Manhattan is amazingly safe.

    Oh, and whenever I tried reporting these crimes to the cops, they refused not just to do anything about them but to even record them. So I’m guessing that the official crime stats from that era wildly understate the actual crime rates.

    Around the time you were arriving in NYC, I was a kid who grew up there who already knew the lay of the land, as it were. I used to hear my uncles warn each other to “Put your wallet in your FRONT pocket when you’re out walking around.” The other big thing was “Count your change,” because in the age before computerized registers, shop clerks would regularly short people.

    I also have a memory of my grandmother taking me by subway to the Lower East Side to pick up something she needed, and me getting catcalled by hookers. “Hey, baby!” She was beyond furious. I found it pretty amusing. This happened in broad daylight when we got off the train. I was 11.

    • Replies: @ScarletNumber
    It seems odd to me that there was a time when it was de rigueur for a man to put his wallet in his back pocket.
    , @Dissident

    I also have a memory of my grandmother taking me by subway to the Lower East Side to pick up something she needed, and me getting catcalled by hookers. “Hey, baby!” She was beyond furious. I found it pretty amusing. This happened in broad daylight when we got off the train. I was 11.
     
    Eleven? Were you exceptionally mature-looking for your age?

    Sounds like a straight shotacon fantasy.

  294. @Alden
    I vaguely remember Lindsay. I had the impression he was last true upper class WASP allied with the black criminals against the Italian Irish etc etc etc middle and working class. Might be wrong. At least that was how he came across in the national news.

    That was when all the academics and liberals were blaming what they called White ethnics for black crime dropping out of school welfare dependency and destruction of American cities.

    Alden:

    Lindsay was a WASP version of Mayor de Blasio.

    Lindsay’s first term as mayor started with a major subway strike led by the irascible Mike Quill. It was downhill from there on in.

    Lindsay’s presidential ambitions ended with a plane in Florida towing an anti-Lindsay banner in Yiddish!

    • Replies: @Alden
    You mean a White man was head of the subway workers union? Whites actually worked in the subway? In and of itself clear and present evidence of racism
  295. @Tony
    96 st on the east side was known as the DMZ. Wealthy and/or white people on the south side, housing projects on the north side.

    It’s 96th and Park Avenue which displays the difference most spectacularly. Or at least did when I was living there in 1991.

    Gaze northwards and all one saw was the maw out of which charged the trains, faced on either side by slums which got worse the further one looked along those tracks. Turn around, and there before one was the splendour of that blissfully wide Park Avenue, lined on either side by apartments blocks of varied architectural worth, but all well-kept and sternly exclusive of all but the richest of the city’s denizens. And far in the distance the calmly iconic Helmsley Building elegantly closing the parallel. There is nothing like it anywhere: this was an America to be proud of.

    I know of nowhere else where the gap between rich and poor was so literally displayed, nor so indifferently accepted. People find their level, it seemed to proclaim; get used to it.

  296. @prime noticer
    how it really was, the more entertaining version:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4GxSwUcm_XE

    the more realistic versions:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RRILgwNJNkI

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0CWcuDrgIo8

    I eat some soup right out of the can — bean with bacon provides the most nutritional and caloric pop.

    The Attica prison riot was caused by some sonofabitch who wanted hot tomato soup?

    Condensed tomato soup caused the Attica prison riot?

    Excellent short scene between David Lynch actor with pronounced jaw and a really good female actress! Good writing and believable lines.

  297. @prime noticer
    how it really was, the more entertaining version:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4GxSwUcm_XE

    the more realistic versions:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RRILgwNJNkI

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0CWcuDrgIo8

    Ann Heche was the actress in the good scene with David Lynch actor from Blue Velvet and Twin Peaks!

    Ann Heche is a wonderful nutcake actress and she more than held her own with that David Lynch actor.

  298. @Mike Zwick
    Yes, but it fed off the public's perception of NY, which was fed from the fact that NY seemed to be going down the toilet. BTW:, there are many movies made in California which are supposed to be in other parts of the country and they screw it up. Million Dollar Baby was supposed to be in Missouri, but there is a scene where Clint Eastwood is knocking on the door of a house with palm trees in the background. Or the movie Uptown Saturday Night, which was supposed to be in Chicago, but the main characters drive out of the city and suddenly they are in a desert area with canyons and chaparral.

    Could be worse.

    There is a Jackie Chan movie that takes place in the Bronx, but was filmed in Vancouver. There are mountains in the background for much of the movie.

  299. @Dan Hayes
    Alden:

    Lindsay was a WASP version of Mayor de Blasio.

    Lindsay's first term as mayor started with a major subway strike led by the irascible Mike Quill. It was downhill from there on in.

    Lindsay's presidential ambitions ended with a plane in Florida towing an anti-Lindsay banner in Yiddish!

    You mean a White man was head of the subway workers union? Whites actually worked in the subway? In and of itself clear and present evidence of racism

    • Replies: @Paleo Liberal
    The unions were pretty much all white in those days.

    The way you got into a Union was to know someone to sponsor you. Very nepotistic. And almost all white.

    I remember in the early 80s with a college degree making $15k a year, and having to make trips to JFK and LGA. One of the young guys at one of the airports was an aspiring writer with the right family connections to get a union job with a starting salary of $25 k, not working as hard.

    The black “leaders” would sometimes picket places with predominantly white union workers, demanding they hire members of the “leader’s” organization. That always involved kickbacks and some consulting fees for the “leader”. Sometimes the boss would fire all the black employees to make room for the diversity hires.
    , @Dan Hayes
    Alden:

    In the not too distant past (say 65 or so years ago), NYC subway workers were mostly white and predominantly Irish-born. Of course it's all-Black nowadays!

    Mike Quill was the last of the Irish American and Irish-born subway union leaders. It signaled the changing of the guard!

    Despite government prodding, the NYC carpenter's union remains Irish and corrupt (which I appreciate and applaud!).

    , @RAZ
    NY was much whiter back in 1965. And the subway workers and its union leadership were still heavily Irish. Quill was.

    Lindsay was elected as a nominal Republican. Think by his second term he may have been a Dem. He had a bid for the Dem nomination for President, which didn't go anywhere. That may have been 1972.
  300. @njguy73
    The Babylon Bee is satire. It's a conservative version of The Onion.

    The Babylon Bee is satire. It’s a conservative version of The Onion.

    Thanks, I know, I was trying to make it sound plausible.

  301. anon[221] • Disclaimer says:

    It’s probably a minority of whites who lived in NYC in the 70s and 80s who weren’t a victim of POC crime. Kelly McGillis, Kate Mulgrew and Madonna said they were raped. Julian Lennon and JFJ Jr got mugged. [ Think of all the talented , ambitious people who never lived in NYC because of the fear of living in a dangerous jungle.

  302. @Mike Zwick
    Yes, but it fed off the public's perception of NY, which was fed from the fact that NY seemed to be going down the toilet. BTW:, there are many movies made in California which are supposed to be in other parts of the country and they screw it up. Million Dollar Baby was supposed to be in Missouri, but there is a scene where Clint Eastwood is knocking on the door of a house with palm trees in the background. Or the movie Uptown Saturday Night, which was supposed to be in Chicago, but the main characters drive out of the city and suddenly they are in a desert area with canyons and chaparral.

    7even Kevin Spacey as a sadistic serial killer Morgan Freeman as the wise old detective 20 years past retirement age.

    The end featured Freeman and partner driving out through upstate New York to catch the villain. The landscape must have been in the Nevada desert so different from blazing beautiful green NY State. The city scenes were authentic north east November gray cold lots of rain warm coats. Then out into the blazing sun and beige desert

    A movie starring Sean Connery. Story was a WW 2 attack on a German castle by air. Obviously filmed in either desert mountains of Spain or American Southwest. Only foliage dead brown 8 inch tall scrub in beige sand . German mountains are so green they’re blueish

    Those 2 Musketeers movies with Michael York. Set in northwest France a green green rainy rainy place. Filmed in the driest brownest desert in Spain

    Maybe the industry people are all native California desert dwellers who don’t realize the rest of the world isn’t a desert.

  303. @Alden
    You mean a White man was head of the subway workers union? Whites actually worked in the subway? In and of itself clear and present evidence of racism

    The unions were pretty much all white in those days.

    The way you got into a Union was to know someone to sponsor you. Very nepotistic. And almost all white.

    I remember in the early 80s with a college degree making $15k a year, and having to make trips to JFK and LGA. One of the young guys at one of the airports was an aspiring writer with the right family connections to get a union job with a starting salary of $25 k, not working as hard.

    The black “leaders” would sometimes picket places with predominantly white union workers, demanding they hire members of the “leader’s” organization. That always involved kickbacks and some consulting fees for the “leader”. Sometimes the boss would fire all the black employees to make room for the diversity hires.

    • Agree: Dan Hayes
    • Replies: @Jim Don Bob
    I was in NYC yesterday and there were signs in the subway advertising jobs as elevator/escalator repair persons. Starting rate $46.42.
  304. @Alden
    You mean a White man was head of the subway workers union? Whites actually worked in the subway? In and of itself clear and present evidence of racism

    Alden:

    In the not too distant past (say 65 or so years ago), NYC subway workers were mostly white and predominantly Irish-born. Of course it’s all-Black nowadays!

    Mike Quill was the last of the Irish American and Irish-born subway union leaders. It signaled the changing of the guard!

    Despite government prodding, the NYC carpenter’s union remains Irish and corrupt (which I appreciate and applaud!).

    • Agree: Alden
    • Replies: @RAZ
    NY construction also has a lot of Irish Irish. Don't know if they plan on going back home after they retire or plan on staying in Queens, Woodlawn, etc.
    , @Tony
    Also the tunnel workers (new subway lines, new water mains) are largely Irish. Last I heard anyway.
    , @Nicholas Stix
    Dan,

    15-odd years ago, I was riding with an (American) Irish taxi cab driver in South Queens.

    He was also a union carpenter, and was laughing about the time he was in a (n union?) office when a black guy came in, and demanded a job as a carpenter. The guy running the office said, "Ok, show me one and three-eighth inches (or some such) on a ruler."

    The black guy just stormed out of the office disgusted.
  305. @Anon
    No-go zones in New York! It's not just Sweden.

    In Japan, as a male at least, there is literally nowhere I wouldn't walk, at any time night or day, that I can think of. Public crime is like ... all that comes to mind are Iranians selling counterfeit public phone cards three decades ago. Or fake monks collecting money at train stations. I just hope Japan can protect their culture. And honestly ... I have a certain sympathy for the Chinese versus Uyghurs. I mean, I'm sure Uyghurs are not bad people, but a stitch in time saves nine, and a lot of good happens from protecting cultural homogeneity. Omelettes and broken eggs.

    >I’m sure Uyghurs are not bad people

    I spent years living in China and there are Uighurs all over the place. In the Han dominated cities they form a very recognizable minority subculture. The good side of this subculture is the noodle shops which I used to patronize all the time, some of the food I miss the most from China is not even Han food, it’s the Uighur lamb noodles.

    It doesn’t take long though to hear negative stories about Uighurs. Beware the peanut candy merchants in the park, they will almost invariably try to rip you off, I used to think they were targeting foreigners until Han friends told me that the same thing happens to Han. And there was another prevalent rumor that the lamb kebabs sold on every street corner are not actually lamb but cat, coated with fake “lamb flavor”.

    I also had a Uighur landlord that I got to know very well, he was basically a nice guy but was trying to become a real estate baron, so he rented his apartment to me and used the income to finance purchase of another; unfortunately, he had also borrowed money from Uighur loan sharks. On a couple of occasions, he begged me for advance payments to get these guys off his back, which I was glad to provide because I had the money saved up and he agreed to discount future rent payments to get the money immediately. Eventually, he must have fallen behind because he had to give up the new apartment and was forced to move back into the old one, so I had to move away.

    But I was left with a strong impression that the Uighur community was well supplied with mafia types that you wouldn’t want to mess with. Certainly, the Han (who have their own set of vices and virtues) are deeply suspicious of them and aren’t shedding any tears for the roundups in Xinjiang.

  306. @Days of Broken Arrows
    Around the time you were arriving in NYC, I was a kid who grew up there who already knew the lay of the land, as it were. I used to hear my uncles warn each other to "Put your wallet in your FRONT pocket when you're out walking around." The other big thing was "Count your change," because in the age before computerized registers, shop clerks would regularly short people.

    I also have a memory of my grandmother taking me by subway to the Lower East Side to pick up something she needed, and me getting catcalled by hookers. "Hey, baby!" She was beyond furious. I found it pretty amusing. This happened in broad daylight when we got off the train. I was 11.

    It seems odd to me that there was a time when it was de rigueur for a man to put his wallet in his back pocket.

    • Replies: @Charon
    Even in the 80s, in NYC, I carried my wallet in my hip (back) pocket because that's where men carried their wallets.
  307. @ScarletNumber
    It seems odd to me that there was a time when it was de rigueur for a man to put his wallet in his back pocket.

    Even in the 80s, in NYC, I carried my wallet in my hip (back) pocket because that’s where men carried their wallets.

  308. @Ian M.
    Great anecdotes.

    Vigilante justice is not ideal, but the story of how the Ukranian community reacted to the rape of one of their own indicates a much healthier community than ours are today.

    Recall the reaction to the Boston Marthon bombers on the loose: the entire metropolis was put on lockdown with people cowering in fear in their homes with the doors locked and bolted (think of the inspiration that must give aspiring terrorists: all they've got to do is set off a few pressure cooker bombs and they can get an entire metropolis to shut down). We have ceded too much control to the government in the role of protection. It emasculates men by depriving them of their protector role, and so when the time comes, men no longer know how to react, and just wait for law enforcement to arrive. The other extreme is not ideal either, where patriarchs take care of all the protection, which results in feuds and vengeance killings, but we've gone too far in the opposite direction.

    I couldn’t agree more! (Literally, cause the button’s grayed-out.)

    Great comment, Ian.

  309. @sayless
    Couldn’t agree more, Germ Theory. Every time I stepped outside I was aware of the threat.

    One of the librarians at the Mid-Manhattan library was upset one day. “What’s wrong, Joe?”

    The director of his bel canto group had been murdered for his wallet. That one still enrages me.

    What year was that?

    • Replies: @sayless
    That was 1991 or 1992.
  310. @njguy73

    P.S. Is there anyone on this forum who didn’t live in NYC in the ‘Good Old Days’?!

     

    I didn't. I was living in NJ.

    I did have relatives in the city, and my dad worked there, so I'd go there often.

    Graffiti-ridden subways. Garbage piled up on the street. Porn shops everywhere. Headlines in the Post about murder and scandal.

    Excuse me, it's getting a little dusty in here.

    I was living in NJ.

    Me, too. I went into NYC a few dozen times in the decade I lived in NJ, usually short in and out trips in groups to go to a club, a day wandering around Manhattan, or a Yankees game, sometimes driving, sometimes taking the NJ Transit train. The worse thing I remember is the squeegee guys offering to clean your windshield while you waited in traffic for the tunnel. I remember those “No Radio” signs, too. That was the era of removable radios.

  311. @Hippopotamusdrome
    http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_oBRbTQRZwVI/TVAVfLb9uHI/AAAAAAAAAp8/Us7rjAJRkfE/s1600/GovernmentSurplusCheeseBox-757415.jpg

    Is that a recently taken pic of 65 year old processed cheese?

    The label is very worn but the pic is pretty sharp and colorful.

    If I were 13 I’d say “I’ll eat that if you pay me $2.”

  312. @Alden
    I vaguely remember Lindsay. I had the impression he was last true upper class WASP allied with the black criminals against the Italian Irish etc etc etc middle and working class. Might be wrong. At least that was how he came across in the national news.

    That was when all the academics and liberals were blaming what they called White ethnics for black crime dropping out of school welfare dependency and destruction of American cities.

    Alden, you are my favorite new commenter here. I picture a late 50s white-nationalist more curmudgeonly Marcia Clark. I’d totally watch an autobiographical sitcom you write. Steve can co-write and Jack D serve as your agent and Jewish frontman.

    Think about it.

    • Agree: Jim Don Bob
    • Replies: @Alden
    Thank you
  313. @explorer
    i use to hangout at a bar called Mingles over there....I think 92nd. st. 2ave. My family was from that area Yorkville

    Owned by a friend of a friend, Mulligan, retired FDNY guy. Had a very rough St. Patrick’s night there in the 1980s.

    • Replies: @explorer
    yeah, from the neighborhood, friends of my family. Frankie the bartender over there was my uncle. He passed away about 2 years ago..great guy
  314. @Mike Zwick
    Yes, but it fed off the public's perception of NY, which was fed from the fact that NY seemed to be going down the toilet. BTW:, there are many movies made in California which are supposed to be in other parts of the country and they screw it up. Million Dollar Baby was supposed to be in Missouri, but there is a scene where Clint Eastwood is knocking on the door of a house with palm trees in the background. Or the movie Uptown Saturday Night, which was supposed to be in Chicago, but the main characters drive out of the city and suddenly they are in a desert area with canyons and chaparral.

    The movie The Untouchables with Sean Connery and Kevin Costner was set in Chicago and green Illinois. Then they went up to the green green forested Michigan Canada border to ambush some bootleggers. It was filmed in S California desert mountains beige dirt brown scrub a few eucalyptus trees.

  315. @Lot
    Alden, you are my favorite new commenter here. I picture a late 50s white-nationalist more curmudgeonly Marcia Clark. I’d totally watch an autobiographical sitcom you write. Steve can co-write and Jack D serve as your agent and Jewish frontman.

    Think about it.

    Thank you

  316. It’s a good thing that, being in New York, none of these walkers for charity was carrying a firearm. Just imagine what deprivation the “youth” might have suffered….

    Of course, being good New Yorkers, the walkers all knew that only “gun nuts,” psychotic murderers, and thuggish criminals have any use for firearms.

  317. @prosa123
    This may be in the realm of urban legend, but here goes. There are a couple of smallish housing projects in Far Rockaway, which for the uninitiated is a very isolated part of the city on a peninsula south of JFK Airport, reachable from the rest of the city by a very long, meandering subway trip or by a commuter train looping through neighboring Nassau County. According to this rumor, the city housing authority used these projects as a dumping ground for residents of other housing projects who got booted out for bad behavior, things like dealing drugs or turning tricks out of an apartment. Most other places would have expelled these characters from public housing completely, but of course NYC won't do that. So instead they were plunked down in as isolated and remote a location as possible.

    That must have been a long time ago. The grant grafting legal foundations filed wrongful eviction law suits when project tenants were sent eviction notices for bad behavior. The courts ruled that project tenants couldn’t be evicted for bad behavior including murder.

  318. @Bragadocious

    before the NYPD got their act together

     

    It's a myth that the NYPD suddenly "got their act together" in the 90s. I've said this before, but what really happened is that tens of thousands of Puerto Ricans left the city. And many more whites moved back in. That brought crime down. The NYPD hasn't changed much over the years. They're never there when you need them, won't help you when you're mugged and basically consider any interaction with law-abiding citizens as a massive headache. I mean really, does anyone think that cops suddenly became Marvel Comic action heroes beginning in 1993?

    I mean really, does anyone think that cops suddenly became Marvel Comic action heroes beginning in 1993?

    No, nobody thinks anything so idiotic. But lots of people who live here think they reformed and improved over a period of years.

    I’ve said this before, but what really happened is that tens of thousands of Puerto Ricans left the city. And many more whites moved back in.

    Did you provide any evidence when you said it before? Because that sounds like 100% bullshit to me. There are more hispanics in Washington Heights than ever, but it went from 100 murders a year to three anyway.

    • Replies: @Bragadocious

    Did you provide any evidence when you said it before? Because that sounds like 100% bullshit to me

     

    Well you're an idiot, is all I can say. The Puerto Rican exodus out of NYC is well-documented. I won't tell you where to look, 'cause that would spoil the image of you actually taking your head out of your ass and learning something about the city where you claim to live.
  319. @Alden
    You mean a White man was head of the subway workers union? Whites actually worked in the subway? In and of itself clear and present evidence of racism

    NY was much whiter back in 1965. And the subway workers and its union leadership were still heavily Irish. Quill was.

    Lindsay was elected as a nominal Republican. Think by his second term he may have been a Dem. He had a bid for the Dem nomination for President, which didn’t go anywhere. That may have been 1972.

  320. @Dan Hayes
    Alden:

    In the not too distant past (say 65 or so years ago), NYC subway workers were mostly white and predominantly Irish-born. Of course it's all-Black nowadays!

    Mike Quill was the last of the Irish American and Irish-born subway union leaders. It signaled the changing of the guard!

    Despite government prodding, the NYC carpenter's union remains Irish and corrupt (which I appreciate and applaud!).

    NY construction also has a lot of Irish Irish. Don’t know if they plan on going back home after they retire or plan on staying in Queens, Woodlawn, etc.

    • Replies: @Dan Hayes
    RAZ:

    Probably wont permanently return to Ireland since their children and grandchildren are here.

    Another reason is the Irish weather. A relative of mine has his own house in Donegal and even though Irish-born can now only tolerate the Irish weather a few weeks per year before returning to his New Jersey redoubt.
  321. @RAZ
    NY construction also has a lot of Irish Irish. Don't know if they plan on going back home after they retire or plan on staying in Queens, Woodlawn, etc.

    RAZ:

    Probably wont permanently return to Ireland since their children and grandchildren are here.

    Another reason is the Irish weather. A relative of mine has his own house in Donegal and even though Irish-born can now only tolerate the Irish weather a few weeks per year before returning to his New Jersey redoubt.

  322. @Dan Hayes
    Alden:

    In the not too distant past (say 65 or so years ago), NYC subway workers were mostly white and predominantly Irish-born. Of course it's all-Black nowadays!

    Mike Quill was the last of the Irish American and Irish-born subway union leaders. It signaled the changing of the guard!

    Despite government prodding, the NYC carpenter's union remains Irish and corrupt (which I appreciate and applaud!).

    Also the tunnel workers (new subway lines, new water mains) are largely Irish. Last I heard anyway.

    • Agree: