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Height trends are interesting to refer to when trying to think about the Flynn Effect of changes in raw IQ scores over time. Here’s a 2016 meta-analysis of 1472 studies of height by country and by sex. They built a model to estimate adult heights of people born in 1896 to 1996.

Screenshot 2017-04-28 16.18.18A century of trends in adult human height

NCD Risk Factor Collaboration (NCD-RisC)

James Bentham and Majid Ezzati

Results

We estimated that people born in 1896 were shortest in Asia and in Central and Andean Latin America (Figure 1 and Figure 2).

The 1896 male birth cohort on average measured only 152.9 cm (credible interval 147.9–157.9) in Laos, which is the same as a well-nourished 12.5-year boy according to international growth standards (de Onis et al., 2007), followed by Timor-Leste and Guatemala. Women born in the same year in Guatemala were on average 140.3 cm (135.8– 144.8), the same as a well-nourished 10-year girl. El Salvador, Peru, Bangladesh, South Korea and Japan had the next shortest women.

The tallest populations a century ago lived in Central and Northern Europe, North America and some Pacific islands. The height of men born in Sweden, Norway and the USA surpassed 171 cm, ~18–19 cm taller than men in Laos. Swedish women, with average adult height of 160.3 cm (158.2–162.4), were the tallest a century ago and 20 cm taller than women in Guatemala. Women were also taller than 158 cm in Norway, Iceland, the USA and American Samoa.

Changes in adult height over the century of analysis varied drastically across countries. Notably, although the large increases in European men’s heights in the 19th and 20th century have been highlighted, we found that the largest gains since the 1896 birth cohort occurred in South Korean women and Iranian men, who became 20.2 cm (17.5–22.7) and 16.5 cm (13.3–19.7) taller, respec- tively (Figure 3, Figure 4 and Figure 5). As a result, South Korean women moved from the fifth shortest to the top tertile of tallest women in the world over the course of a century. Men in South Korea also had large gains relative to other countries, by 15.2 cm (12.3–18.1).

There were also large gains in height in Japan, Greenland, some countries in Southern Europe (e.g., Greece) and Central Europe (e.g., Serbia and Poland, and for women Czech Republic).

In contrast, there was little gain in height in many countries in sub-Saharan Africa and South Asia.

The pace of growth in height has not been uniform over the past century. The impressive rise in height in Japan stopped in people born after the early 1960s (Figure 6). In South Korea, the flatten- ing began in the cohorts born in the 1980s for men and it may have just begun in women. As a result, South Korean men and women are now taller than their Japanese counterparts. The rise is continuing in other East and Southeast Asian countries like China and Thailand, with Chinese men and women having surpassed the Japanese (but not yet as tall as South Koreans). The rise in adult height also seems to have plateaued in South Asian countries like Bangladesh and India at much lower levels than in East Asia, e.g., 5–10 cm shorter than it did in Japan and South Korea.

There were also variations in the time course of height change across high-income western countries, with height increase having plateaued in Northern European countries like Finland and in English-speaking countries like the UK for 2–3 decades (Larnkaer et al., 2006), followed by Eastern Europe (Figure 7). The earliest of these occurred in the USA, which was one of the tallest nations a century ago but has now fallen behind its European counterparts after having had the smallest gain in height of any high-income country (Tanner, 1981; Komlos and Lau- derdale, 2007; Komlos and Baur, 2004; Sokoloff and Villaflor, 1982).

In contrast, height is still increasing in some Southern European countries (e.g., Spain), and in many countries in Latin America. As an exception to the steady gains in most countries, adult height decreased or at best remained the same in many countries in sub-Saharan Africa for cohorts born after the early 1960s, by around 5 cm from its peak in some countries (see for example Niger, Rwanda, Sierra Leone, and Uganda in Figure 8). More recently, the same seems to have happened for men, but not women, in some countries in Central Asia (e.g., Azerbaijan and Uzbekistan) and Middle East and North Africa (e.g., Egypt and Yemen), whereas in others (e.g., Iran) both sexes continue to grow taller.

Men born in 1996 surpass average heights of 181 cm in the Netherlands, Belgium, Estonia, Latvia and Denmark, with Dutch men, at 182.5 cm (180.6–184.5), the tallest people on the planet. The gap with the shortest countries – Timor-Leste, Yemen and Laos, where men are only ~160 cm tall – is 22– 23 cm, an increase of ~4 cm on the global gap in the 1896 birth cohort. Australia was the only non-European country where men born in 1996 were among the 25 tallest in the world.

Women born in 1996 are shortest in Guatemala, with an average height of 149.4 cm (148.0–150.8), and are shorter than 151 cm in the Philippines, Bangladesh and Nepal. The tallest women live in Latvia, the Netherlands, Estonia and Czech Republic, with average height surpassing 168 cm, creating a 20 cm global gap in women’s height (Figure 5).

Male and female heights were correlated across countries in 1896 as well as in 1996. Men were taller than women in every country, on average by ~11 cm in the 1896 birth cohort and ~12 cm in the 1996 birth cohort (Figure 9). In the 1896 birth cohort, the male-female height gap in countries where average height was low was slightly larger than in taller nations. In other words, at the turn of the 20th century, men seem to have had a relative advantage over women in undernourished compared to better-nourished populations.

A century later, the male-female height gap is about the same throughout the height range. Changes in male and female heights over the century of analysis were also correlated, which is in contrast to low correlation between changes in male and female

And here’s another conversion table:

4 feet 7 inches 139.7
4 feet 8 inches 142.2
4 feet 9 inches 144.8
4 feet 10 inches 147.3
4 feet 11 inches 149.9
5 feet 0 inches 152.4
5 feet 1 inches 154.9
5 feet 2 inches 157.5
5 feet 3 inches 160.0
5 feet 4 inches 162.6
5 feet 5 inches 165.1
5 feet 6 inches 167.6
5 feet 7 inches 170.2
5 feet 8 inches 172.7
5 feet 9 inches 175.3
5 feet 10 inches 177.8
5 feet 11 inches 180.3
6 feet 0 inches 182.9
6 feet 1 inches 185.4
6 feet 2 inches 188.0
6 feet 3 inches 190.5
6 feet 4 inches 193.0
6 feet 5 inches 195.6
6 feet 6 inches 198.1

 
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  1. Excellent idea and post Steve.

    I’ve often thought that it would be interesting to be able to tear apart the various aspects of the Flynn Effect which i’ve generally associated with:
    – improved nutrition
    – improved public health
    – improved literacy
    – TV and connection to a “wider” world
    – more “symbolic processing” in education (stuff like graphs, sets, sequences)

    It’s notable that all the recent (last couple generations) Flynn Effect improvement in the West has been on the essentially only the symbolic–Raven’s Matrix style–tests. These tests are a gold standard in terms of doing cross culture\language comparisons, but they a type of test that is highly subject to exposure. People 100 years ago–like my grandparents and even parents growing up–simply didn’t encounter this sort of “which figure is not like the other” during their education, but i had exposure in the 60s and now with the Internet and gaming it’s ubiquitous. In contrast simple verbal IQ tests–reading comprehension–don’t seemed to have moved much at all. After Europe recovered from the war people throughout the West had adequate nutrition and basic literacy and there really hasn’t been any Flynn effect in verbal IQ measures. (And now we’re probably into stall and decline because of demographic effects.)

    Comparing against the improvements in height is a great way to sort of norm the Flynn Effect against basic nutrition and public health improvements. Excellent concept.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Yes, my guess is that the early IQ test guys like Lewis Terman were largely right about which direction the world was going to evolve: toward ever more symbolic analysis that could be done on flat surfaces. I don't think it was wholly a coincidence that Lewis Terman's son Fred was more or less the Father of Silicon Valley.

    This perspective suggests that the Flynn Effect is real and historically important, but also limited in dimension.
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  2. Anon says: • Disclaimer

    Felix
    It must have taken a real retard to put together the two big charts listing countries’ height by horizontal lines with the axis all the way on the bottom. Effing idiot!

    Read More
    • Replies: @The King is a Fink
    The colour scales on the choropleths (maps) are also dissimilar which means you cannot meaningfully visually compare the two. Data Visualisation 101 Fail.
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  3. ziel says:

    I recollect from when I was a kid in the 60′s that the conventional wisdom was that the Chinese were more ‘regular’ in height and that any shortness was due to nutritional deficiencies, while the Japs were just plain short. This seems to be holding up pretty well – at least from my observations where Chinese and Koreans raised in America are closer to average in height while Japanese remain shorter.

    What I think would be an interesting experiment would be to perform some CRISPR edits on East Asian embryos to make them lactose tolerant, and encourage the children to drink American portions of cow’s milk through their teens. Will they outperform their predicted height? While human experiments are generally unethical, I can’t see how this would be – other than whole milk being institutionally racist.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Lot
    US Blacks are largely lactose intolerant but are encouraged to drink milk, and in my memery did mostly drink chocolate milk at lunch everyday all the way through high school. As well as plenty of ice cream.

    I think in an environment of cheap subsidized milk lactose intolerant people get some sort of tolerance to it via their gut biome.
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  4. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer

    The pace of growth in height has not been uniform over the past century. The impressive rise in height in Japan stopped in people born after the early 1960s (Figure 6). In South Korea, the flatten- ing began in the cohorts born in the 1980s for men and it may have just begun in women. As a result, South Korean men and women are now taller than their Japanese counterparts. The rise is continuing in other East and Southeast Asian countries like China and Thailand, with Chinese men and women having surpassed the Japanese (but not yet as tall as South Koreans). The rise in adult height also seems to have plateaued in South Asian countries like Bangladesh and India at much lower levels than in East Asia, e.g., 5–10 cm shorter than it did in Japan and South Korea.

    As a youth, I was an exchange student to Japan. The time corresponded to my first teenage growth spurt, and diet being as poor in protein as it is, I could pull out strands of my hair by running my hands through my hair. I somewhat up for it by buying protein snacks and beef jerky. This was in the 1990s. But it was likely better than it had been.

    The East Asian rice-based diet is generally pretty protein-poor. That the East Asians were already as intelligent as they were given the diet, with a better diet they were supercharged (like the African-Americans are, but starting from a higher IQ base). I suspect that the IQ-based Flynn effect, along with the proportion of demographics fitting in the age 20-45yo cohort of hard working innovators, had a reasonable amount to do with the economic success of Japan when it peaked, as well as South Korea and China, along with the low starting base of wages allowing for significant profit and reinvestment. If someone starts out at a very low rate, you can give generous increases for a long time before they become uncompetitive and capital shifts to another country.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Michelle
    A lot of Japanese people, due to cultural influences, are pretty uptight about food. Koreans eat a lot of beef, whilst many Japanese and Chinese people are actually afraid of beef, despite Oyster Sauce Beef and the Kobe Beef fetish. My Chinese-American friend claims that beef gives her a stomach ache. I think it makes me smell funny, so I eat it but rarely, no pun intended!

    It seems to me, that beef or the hormones we give the beeves is the seat of all growth and fertility and that those who consume beeves are selected for in every aspect of physical superiority. Mental, maybe, not so much!

    I have a Chinese co-worker, who, despite being a lesbian, has, due to family pressure, married a man and has been unable to become pregnant due to the fact that she cannot bring herself to eat protein, other than the salted duck eggs that rest in the middle of the Chinese tamales she eats every day for lunch. I have other Asian co-workers who eat McDonald's every day and they are huge. Girls 6ft tall. I bet they'd get pregnant if they sat on a toilet seat after a guy did.

    My Chinese supervisor is super picky about food, hates beef and most meat and had to undergo lots of fertility treatments in order to have one son. When she travels to China, she is so afraid of the food, she only eats rice made with bottled water.

    A Japanese co-worker, who was a strict vegetarian and used to offer us lots of advice on food consumption, just died of pancreatic cancer. Another Chinese co-worker, around 20, 5'10, and grossly obese, eats a full McDonald's lunch every day, with 2 apple pies as chasers, then eats her homemade Chinese lunch a half hour later, because she thinks it unhealthy to not eat the Chinese food. Somehow she thinks it counteracts the McDonald's. This drives me nuts!

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zongzi

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  5. Halvorson says:

    When trying to convince someone that ethnic differences in IQ are a priori to be expected, it’s useful to use national height as an example. I think a reasonable liberal will admit that in the wealthiest European countries people have stopped growing, and so most of the remaining national variation has a genetic cause. And there’s a lot of variation! The Dutch advantage in height over the French (~3 inches) is larger than the one standard deviation gap in Black-White IQ. Some of these differences, like the height gap between north and south Europeans, are ancient in origin. But the superior height of the Dutch or Montenegrins over their close neighbors cannot be explained this way and must be the result of recent selection. It turns out the genetic basis of a highly polygenic trait like this can easily rise or fall over short time scales. Surprise!

    So the big question that no genius anthropologist has ever tried to answer is why genetic height is allowed to do this, but national IQ is magically fixed at 100 everywhere. You could try invoke balancing selection as an explanation, but that suggests that in some places today groups are “balancing” up and others down so that we should still expect to see significant differences.

    Maybe Franz Boas figured all this out in 1910.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anon
    The Dutch/French gap is probably dietary. The Dutch have always been milk drinkers, but even today, the French think drinking milk is weird. You're supposed to drink wine and strong coffee drunk black, which do nothing to add height and may even retard it.
    , @Lot
    The Dutch are taller than all of their neighbors, with Belgium is close behind. They have been richer and more urbanized for a long time, so perhaps there was enhanced sexual selection for height starting around 1600.
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  6. Trelane says:

    The correlation between height and psychometric intelligence (IQ) is frequently given as 0.25. Robert Reich, who is highly intelligent is only 4’10″ due to multiple epiphyseal dysplasia which also afflicts actor Danny DiVito. Basketball star Wilt Chamberlain is 7’1″ and considered quite tall. Steve Sailer is 6’4″ and Donald Trump is 6’3″. A man 6’3″ only rarely encounters a male who is taller than him.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anonanonanon
    This is stupid. If it were true, the Dinka people of Africa would have higher average test scores than the Japanese.
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  7. Anon says: • Disclaimer
    @Halvorson
    When trying to convince someone that ethnic differences in IQ are a priori to be expected, it's useful to use national height as an example. I think a reasonable liberal will admit that in the wealthiest European countries people have stopped growing, and so most of the remaining national variation has a genetic cause. And there's a lot of variation! The Dutch advantage in height over the French (~3 inches) is larger than the one standard deviation gap in Black-White IQ. Some of these differences, like the height gap between north and south Europeans, are ancient in origin. But the superior height of the Dutch or Montenegrins over their close neighbors cannot be explained this way and must be the result of recent selection. It turns out the genetic basis of a highly polygenic trait like this can easily rise or fall over short time scales. Surprise!

    So the big question that no genius anthropologist has ever tried to answer is why genetic height is allowed to do this, but national IQ is magically fixed at 100 everywhere. You could try invoke balancing selection as an explanation, but that suggests that in some places today groups are "balancing" up and others down so that we should still expect to see significant differences.

    Maybe Franz Boas figured all this out in 1910.

    The Dutch/French gap is probably dietary. The Dutch have always been milk drinkers, but even today, the French think drinking milk is weird. You’re supposed to drink wine and strong coffee drunk black, which do nothing to add height and may even retard it.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Georg H
    Granted, it's been 25 years since I spent any time in France, but I seem to remember it being very common for the French to consume large quantities of café au lait (ie milk) at breakfast. Yogurt drinks and soft cheeses were also very common fare. But you're right, drinking plain milk was rare.
    , @anon
    My mother was a child, living on her parents dairy farm when the American military occupied Queensland [Australia] from 1942 to 1945.
    At the time, the Industry was socialised. and dairies supplied cream to a State Marketing Board.
    The skim [milk] was fed to pigs to fatten them.
    All this changed in early 1942, she remembered that the Americans were ''mad for milk'', to the bemusement of Australians, since there had been no demand for fresh milk previously, it was used to grow pigs [hogs].
    , @anon
    My mother was a child, living on her parents dairy farm when the American military occupied Queensland [Australia] from 1942 to 1945.
    At the time, the Industry was socialised. and dairies supplied cream to a State Marketing Board.
    The skim [milk] was fed to pigs to fatten them.
    All this changed in early 1942, she remembered that the Americans were ''mad for milk'', to the bemusement of Australians, since there had been no demand for fresh milk previously, it was used to grow pigs [hogs].

    Since milk drinking became universal in post war Australia, it would be interesting to compare heights of native born Australians pre & post 1945.

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  8. @Trelane
    The correlation between height and psychometric intelligence (IQ) is frequently given as 0.25. Robert Reich, who is highly intelligent is only 4'10" due to multiple epiphyseal dysplasia which also afflicts actor Danny DiVito. Basketball star Wilt Chamberlain is 7'1" and considered quite tall. Steve Sailer is 6'4" and Donald Trump is 6'3". A man 6'3" only rarely encounters a male who is taller than him.

    This is stupid. If it were true, the Dinka people of Africa would have higher average test scores than the Japanese.

    Read More
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  9. MikeTB says:

    I read the rapid increase in height in Japan post WWII was from the introduction of beef into the Japanese diet.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Twinkie

    I read the rapid increase in height in Japan post WWII was from the introduction of beef into the Japanese diet.
     
    Not just beef, but animal protein in general.

    However, look at this page: http://nbakki.hatenablog.com/entry/2014/08/18/233947

    Okinawa was the first to get McDonald's in Japan - even ahead of Tokyo. In fact, the Okinawan diet is now quiet Westernized and meat-heavy. Yet Okinawa still has the shortest average height in Japan, while the tallest people are concentrated in the northern prefectures.
    , @Erik Sieven
    unfortunately the introduction of beef in Japan seems to have lead to a rise of colorectal cancer
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  10. anon says: • Disclaimer

    Australia was the only non-European country where men born in 1996 were among the 25 tallest in the world.

    That’s very noticeable here in Australia. Worth considering is that Australia had more Post War Dutch migration than from any other mainland European Country. Balts, Greeks, Yugoslavs, Italians, Germans, and Finns were among the others.
    Australia’s population rose from 6 million in 1946 to c.12 million in 1971.

    Read More
    • Replies: @sb
    Worth considering is that Australia had more Post War Dutch Immigration than from any other mainland European Country

    Don't know about that

    I would say that while post war Dutch immigration to Australia was significant it was less than the numbers from any of Italy ,Greece , Germany and ( the former ) Yugoslavia

    Mind you as Australia has became less NW European in ancestry I reckon the average height has gone down , For instance Southern Italian migrants were quite short on average .
    It is also noticeable that the many Asians who are more recent arrivals are far taller than the Asian norm ie it's a class/money/ intelligence thing
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  11. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer

    Serbs seem to be a very tall people.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Sean
    Yamnaya ancestry. The tall peoples in Europe and close by all got their height from Yamnaya genes.
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  12. Georg H says:
    @Anon
    The Dutch/French gap is probably dietary. The Dutch have always been milk drinkers, but even today, the French think drinking milk is weird. You're supposed to drink wine and strong coffee drunk black, which do nothing to add height and may even retard it.

    Granted, it’s been 25 years since I spent any time in France, but I seem to remember it being very common for the French to consume large quantities of café au lait (ie milk) at breakfast. Yogurt drinks and soft cheeses were also very common fare. But you’re right, drinking plain milk was rare.

    Read More
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  13. @AnotherDad
    Excellent idea and post Steve.

    I've often thought that it would be interesting to be able to tear apart the various aspects of the Flynn Effect which i've generally associated with:
    -- improved nutrition
    -- improved public health
    -- improved literacy
    -- TV and connection to a "wider" world
    -- more "symbolic processing" in education (stuff like graphs, sets, sequences)

    It's notable that all the recent (last couple generations) Flynn Effect improvement in the West has been on the essentially only the symbolic--Raven's Matrix style--tests. These tests are a gold standard in terms of doing cross culture\language comparisons, but they a type of test that is highly subject to exposure. People 100 years ago--like my grandparents and even parents growing up--simply didn't encounter this sort of "which figure is not like the other" during their education, but i had exposure in the 60s and now with the Internet and gaming it's ubiquitous. In contrast simple verbal IQ tests--reading comprehension--don't seemed to have moved much at all. After Europe recovered from the war people throughout the West had adequate nutrition and basic literacy and there really hasn't been any Flynn effect in verbal IQ measures. (And now we're probably into stall and decline because of demographic effects.)

    Comparing against the improvements in height is a great way to sort of norm the Flynn Effect against basic nutrition and public health improvements. Excellent concept.

    Yes, my guess is that the early IQ test guys like Lewis Terman were largely right about which direction the world was going to evolve: toward ever more symbolic analysis that could be done on flat surfaces. I don’t think it was wholly a coincidence that Lewis Terman’s son Fred was more or less the Father of Silicon Valley.

    This perspective suggests that the Flynn Effect is real and historically important, but also limited in dimension.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  14. Are Serbs broken out in this data?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Mark Eugenikos
    Yes, in figures 4, 5, and 7. I had to download them and open them in some decent photo-editing app (I used Paint 3D) to be able to zoom in.
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  15. Twinkie says:

    The impressive rise in height in Japan stopped in people born after the early 1960s (Figure 6). In South Korea, the flatten- ing began in the cohorts born in the 1980s for men and it may have just begun in women. As a result, South Korean men and women are now taller than their Japanese counterparts. The rise is continuing in other East and Southeast Asian countries like China and Thailand, with Chinese men and women having surpassed the Japanese (but not yet as tall as South Koreans). The rise in adult height also seems to have plateaued in South Asian countries like Bangladesh and India at much lower levels than in East Asia, e.g., 5–10 cm shorter than it did in Japan and South Korea.

    Given that height is an expression of genes and diet, I doubt the average Chinese height will surpass that of Koreans. On the genetic side, Koreans are supposedly almost entirely descended from Paleolithic hunter-gatherers from eastern Siberia. Meanwhile both Japanese and Chinese have significantly more genetic inputs from earlier Austronesian (Southeast Asian) populations. The situation is somewhat comparable to that of northern vs. southern Europeans.

    On the diet side, the per capita meat consumption in the region were:

    China: 52.4 kg (2002) 58.2 kg (2009)
    Japan: 45.9 kg (2002) 45.9 kg (2009)*
    South Korea: 48 kg (2002) 54.1 kg (2009)

    My speculation is that northern Chinese will reach parity with South Koreans in the next 20-30 years in height, but southern Chinese never will, thus pulling down the Chinese average below that of South Korea.

    *And I bet the Japanese will continue to be the longest living East Asians (and perhaps the longest living industrialized population in the world).

    Read More
    • Replies: @Sean
    Twinkies!

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1164627/Children-love-sugar-faster-growth-rates.html

    In nature, sucrose is highly seasonal, even for orangutans in the tropical rain-forest (in winter orangutans are in ketosis from sugar restriction). Animals will gorge on sucrose containing food whenever they can get it. Calcium and protein in relatively moderate amounts are necessary for the building blocks, fat adds the caloric excess easily (milk gives you the lot check out https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_milk_consumption_per_capita the tall counties are salient). Given the availability the building blocks with caloric excess from fa, and then adding sugar produces an all out high growth rate mode (because you're in permanent summer).

    The Dutch are the tallest because they are north Europeans with a high proportion of Yamnaya ancestry and the Yamnaya genes confer a genetic potential for greater height, and given the aformentioned buiding blocks caloric excess and added boost from sugar the skys the limit.


    "In a typical year, the average Dutch person consumes more than 25% more milk-based products than their British, American or German counterparts.
     
    Moreover; http://www.iamexpat.nl/read-and-discuss/lifestyle/news/netherlands-among-worlds-most-sugar-and-fat-crazed-countries.
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  16. Twinkie says:
    @MikeTB
    I read the rapid increase in height in Japan post WWII was from the introduction of beef into the Japanese diet.

    I read the rapid increase in height in Japan post WWII was from the introduction of beef into the Japanese diet.

    Not just beef, but animal protein in general.

    However, look at this page: http://nbakki.hatenablog.com/entry/2014/08/18/233947

    Okinawa was the first to get McDonald’s in Japan – even ahead of Tokyo. In fact, the Okinawan diet is now quiet Westernized and meat-heavy. Yet Okinawa still has the shortest average height in Japan, while the tallest people are concentrated in the northern prefectures.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    Yet Okinawa still has the shortest average height in Japan, while the tallest people are concentrated in the northern prefectures.
     
    I understand what you meant, but in another way, the people of the northern prefectures are the least concentrated in Japan. It would be interesting to see how affordable family formation works there.

    (Or does it?)

    There's a local legend on the north end of Honshu that Jesus, after his resurrection, made his way there, married a local girl, and lived to 106. I'd like to hear the Japanese counterpart to Jerusalem:

    http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-35304508

    , @FKA Max
    As always great insights and information from you, sir.

    We had a pretty good discussion over in the other thread. Below a couple of excerpts from my comments, and at the end a dietary question for you. This is quite a long comment but worth reading, I believe. I tried to keep it as concise as possible:

    In fact, the Okinawan diet is now quiet Westernized and meat-heavy. Yet Okinawa still has the shortest average height in Japan, while the tallest people are concentrated in the northern prefectures.
     
    Iodine-rich seafood is, in my opinion, the food most conducive to boosting height and intelligence. Maybe the northern Japanese are still eating a more traditional seafood diet than the southern Japanese?:

    Saltwater fish and shellfish contain considerably more iodine than do freshwater species, and saltwater shellfish are the most iodine-rich of all seafood.

    Giving a very rough estimate, or average, saltwater fish has 330 micrograms of iodine per 100 grams of body weight, whereas freshwater fish has 66 mcg/g. [Two other foods are higher in iodine content than saltwater fish — dried kelp, with 62,400 mcg/g; and iodized salt, with 7,600 mcg/g.]
     
    - http://www.unz.com/jthompson/womens-brains/#comment-1851867

    What do you think about Bergmann's rule as another/additional explanation for why ``the tallest people are concentrated in the northern prefectures.'' ?


    “The more metabolically active the brain is, the more blood it requires, so the supply arteries are larger. The holes in fossil skulls are accurate gauges of arterial size.”
    [...]
    ”Smaller people have smaller arteries,” she said.
    [...]
    But you forgot to factor in Bergmann’s Rule in your analysis, which, in my opinion, would predict racial differences in IQ/intelligence caused by climate/temperature via bigger/wider arteries in taller/bigger human beings who live far away from the equator http://www.unz.com/gnxp/the-2000-year-selection-of-the-british/#comment-1415185 , which translates, as I stated above into “better-blood-supplied brains,” i.e., higher intelligence.
    [...]
    Cerebral blood flow during rest is associated with IQ and creativity.

    http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0025532
    [...]
    Resource availability thus becomes a modifying restraint on Bergmann’s Rule.
    [...]
    Some more on differences between men and women. I believe, that lower testosterone levels in women explains, why they are only slightly less intelligent than men on average, despite their on-average significantly shorter statures, etc. compared to men.
    [...]
    Like I said in an earlier comment on this thread, the most visible/obvious and reliable indicator and predictor for intelligence seems to be height
    [...]



    Because the correlation between IQ and height is only 0.2, seven foot men would on average be 0.2(139) = 28 IQ points smarter than five foot men.
    [...]
    The other key point is that when men and women are the same height, the woman has an HQ that is 32 points higher (since these HQ scores are assigned relative to gender). Since men and women differ enormously in height but are virtually identical in IQ, and since height and IQ correlate 0.2 within both genders, when a man and woman are the same height, the woman have an IQ that is 0.2(32) = 6 points higher. – https://brainsize.wordpress.com/2014/08/29/height-iq/
     
    - http://www.unz.com/jthompson/womens-brains/#comment-1850648

    You are correct people from Montenegro (population c. ~620,000) , Serbia ( ~7 million), and Croatia (~4.2 million) are an anomaly/outliers, and seem to be an exception to Bergmann’s Rule. But considering the size of that population (~16 million including Bosnia) compared to Germany (~80 million), Netherlands (~17 million), Scandinavia/Baltics (~25 million), etc., I believe the rule still generally holds. Plus you have large non-native, shorter populations living in countries like Germany, Sweden, Netherlands, which probably suppress the overall height average. Also people from the Balkans likely have higher testosterone levels than Northern Europeans on average and are lightly eye-pigmented less often
    [...]
    These are the characteristics I am looking for: height and low testosterone as indicators/proxies for intelligence; “Nordic” phenotype (light eye pigmentation) as an indicator/proxy for creativity and curiosity.
    [...]
    There are also differences between the heights of the different Nilotic peoples/tribes, plus the population of that group is not huge either; I am not exactly sure but I think it is maybe around 20 to 25 million(?), and again, their height is mostly due to their long limbs, so I am not sure their arteries would as big/wide as an equally tall, but bigger/heavier, Nordic person’s ones; which would explain their on average lower intelligence compared to Northern Europeans, despite their tallness
     
    - http://www.unz.com/jthompson/womens-brains/#comment-1851599

    Men’s Test Scores Linked to Hormone

    http://www.nytimes.com/1991/11/14/us/men-s-test-scores-linked-to-hormone.html
    [...]
    TESTOSTERONE LEVELS can affect performance on some tests [see boxes on opposite page for examples of tests]. Women with high levels of testosterone perform better on spatial tasks (top) than women with low levels do, but men with low levels outperform men with high levels. On a mathematical reasoning test (middle), low testosterone corresponds to better performance in men; in women there is no such relation. On a test of perceptual speed in which women usually excel (bottom), no relation is found between testosterone and performance.

    – see page 4 http://www.ucd.ie/artspgs/langimp/genderbrain.pdf
     
    - http://www.unz.com/jthompson/womens-brains/#comment-1851020

    Here is my dietary question for you now, how much does green tea affect testosterone levels in East Asian men do you think, and could this to some degree explain their mathematical aptitude compared to Westerners, and even more so compared to Africans, who seem to have the highest testosterone levels and sensitivity on average? Thank you.

    Comparative rates of androgen production and metabolism in Caucasian and Chinese subjects.

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9626146
    [...]
    Taken together, these studies suggest that environmental/dietary, but not genetic, factors influence androgen production and explain the differences between Caucasian and Chinese men.
    [...]
    This might be a possible explanation:

    Green Tea

    Research indicates that epigallocatechin-3-Gallate, or EGCG, one of the active constituents of green tea, also blocks the formation of DHT. A team of scientists from Harvard Medical School reported in the February 2003 issue of The Journal of Nutrition that green tea significantly reduced DHT and testosterone concentration in the blood.
    [...]
    First of all, most of the tea drunk in China is green tea, a much less processed tea than the standard black tea used in the West (which is often loaded with sugar and milk).
    [...]
    Whereas Westerners tend to have a cup of tea once or twice a day, using a different tea bag each time, the Chinese drink tea all day long.
     
    - http://www.unz.com/isteve/reforming-stuyvesant-hs-admissions-should-blacks-whites-team-up-against-asian-grinds/#comment-1813320
    , @FKA Max
    There is also this, which could explain the greater average height in Hokkaido prefecture et al. I don't know, however, how often/extensively the Japanese intermarried with the Ainu people of Hokkaido. This could, again, be a confirmation of Bergmann's and Allen's rules:

    Besides the political controversy of the plight of the Ainu people, they have also raised other debates within anthropology and hominology. One such debate is that of the very origins and history of this people. Ainu are very different in physical appearance than ethnic Japanese and other Asian peoples. Taller than average Japanese, the Ainu typically have a long skull, light complexion, heavy facial hair, and Caucasian features. Their hair tends to be thick and wavy, and body hair is also more pronounced. Aside from the physical differences, the Ainu language is also quite unique, showing no relation to Japanese or other Asian languages. These unique differences have posed an often debated mystery. Who are the Ainu and where did they come from?
     
    - http://cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/ainu/

    because these “Arctic Mongoloids” have similar features in accordance with Allen’s rule: a narrow nasal passage, relatively large heads, long to round heads, large jaws, relatively large bodies, and short limbs.
     
    - http://www.unz.com/jthompson/womens-brains/#comment-1850648

    Tests of ecogeographical relationships in a non-native species: what rules avian morphology?

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26936361

    Patterns of variation in body mass and bill surface area were consistent with Bergmann’s and Allen’s rules, respectively (small body size and larger bill size in warmer climates), with maximum summer temperature being a strongly weighted predictor of both variables.
     
    - http://www.unz.com/jthompson/womens-brains/#comment-1851599

    Some more interesting information on the intelligence and testosterone link:


    By the age of 19, 80% of US males and 75% of women have lost their virginity, and 87% of college students have had sex. But this number appears to be much lower at elite (i.e. more intelligent) colleges. According to the article, only 56% of Princeton undergraduates have had intercourse. At Harvard 59% of the undergraduates are non-virgins, and at MIT, only a slight majority, 51%, have had intercourse. Further, only 65% of MIT graduate students have had sex.
    [...]
    James Watson even hinted at this in a recent Esquire magazine piece:

    If I had been married earlier in life, I wouldn't have seen the double helix. I would have been taking care of the kids on Saturday. On the other hand, I was lonely a lot of the time.
    [...]
    So intelligent people have lower libidos and less masculine physiques. What hormone is responsible for both sex drive and masculine builds? That's right: testosterone.

     

    - http://www.gnxp.com/blog/2007/04/intercourse-and-intelligence.php

    Real Genius (1/8) Movie CLIP - All Brain, No Penis (1985) HD

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SN7sOR35KCg
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  17. sb says:
    @anon
    Australia was the only non-European country where men born in 1996 were among the 25 tallest in the world.

    That's very noticeable here in Australia. Worth considering is that Australia had more Post War Dutch migration than from any other mainland European Country. Balts, Greeks, Yugoslavs, Italians, Germans, and Finns were among the others.
    Australia's population rose from 6 million in 1946 to c.12 million in 1971.

    Worth considering is that Australia had more Post War Dutch Immigration than from any other mainland European Country

    Don’t know about that

    I would say that while post war Dutch immigration to Australia was significant it was less than the numbers from any of Italy ,Greece , Germany and ( the former ) Yugoslavia

    Mind you as Australia has became less NW European in ancestry I reckon the average height has gone down , For instance Southern Italian migrants were quite short on average .
    It is also noticeable that the many Asians who are more recent arrivals are far taller than the Asian norm ie it’s a class/money/ intelligence thing

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    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Yugoslavians tend to be tall: ex-Yugoslavian countries do well in Olympic team sports favoring height like basketball, volleyball, and water polo.
    , @anon
    You're right.
    The Dutch were in 3rd place up to 1959, behind Italians and Germans, then the Greeks poured in, relegating the Dutch to 4th place by 1970.
    The Dutch were also the most likely to leave, either to the U.S. or Canada, or back to Europe.
    The promises of the dodgy Australian Government didn't match the reality of life her in the early fifties.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post-war_immigration_to_Australia#Breakdown_of_arrivals_by_decade
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  18. dearieme says:

    (i) When I was a boy nobody thought Dutchmen particularly tall by NW European standards. (That was consistent with the few Dutchmen I met.) But since then they seem to have leapt up. I’ve never heard a plausible explanation. There’s no point saying they enjoy cheese and milk at breakfast – they always have, as far as I know.

    (ii) When we lived in Oz the men seemed no taller than the men we were used to in Britain. The Oz women were noticeably taller than British women though.

    (iii) Have racial changes been properly accounted for in these figures? I mean, if a country receives short/tall immigrants and their children are short/tall too, has this effect been subtracted so that there are figures for the indigenous population? If not the figures for many countries would hopelessly confound different effects.

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    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    "The Oz women were noticeably taller than British women though."

    Different fashions involving height of heels could have a big impact on perceptions of female height.

    I was finally watching the sitcom "Veep" with Julia Louis-Dreyfus, who is fairly short, as the Vice President and a lot of the jokes involve her taking off and hurriedly putting back on her high heels. The show apparently casts tall actors and short actresses and finds some humor in that, and without setting off too many Diversity alarms.

    , @sb
    I think that the data from both world wars showed that Australian servicemen were significantly taller than their UK counterparts .

    Not so much difference these days as the British diet has considerably improved since WW2

    When I was young it was a widely held view in Australia that the different classes in England looked very different ( chiefly by height and teeth ) . Whereas in Australia you had to wait for people to open their mouth to speak before you could start classifying them

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  19. @Anon
    Felix
    It must have taken a real retard to put together the two big charts listing countries' height by horizontal lines with the axis all the way on the bottom. Effing idiot!

    The colour scales on the choropleths (maps) are also dissimilar which means you cannot meaningfully visually compare the two. Data Visualisation 101 Fail.

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  20. unit472 says:

    Native American populations might provide a good insight into height variations based on culture/lifestyle and diet. North and South Korea too over an even shorter time frame. Whereas the large variation in African populations might be entirely genetic owing to the ancient nature of the divergence, this would be less pronounced among indigenous people in the Americas so why are Guatemalan Indians so short and, say, the Cheyenne Indian tribe, tall?

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  21. Sideways says:

    adult height decreased or at best remained the same in many countries in sub-Saharan Africa for cohorts born after the early 1960s,

    IOW, almost as soon as decolonization began health got worse and stayed there.

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  22. jill says:

    My boyfriend is tall, over 6’4″. We recently went to a concert at Lincoln Center in New York. The lobby happened to be packed and after looking around. my boyfriend remarked that while there were a good number of senior men in the crowd, there were no tall old men. Should I be worried? Do tall men die young?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Tall people have a slightly higher chance of some kinds of cancer.

    But also, people shrink as they get old.

    And New Yorkers were pretty short in the past: I can remember riding the subway in 1979 with some guys from Rice U. and noticing how we carried on conversations over other riders' heads, literally.

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  23. Tulip says:

    One of the problems stupid people like me have with Rushton’s work is that there is clearly a huge environmental difference between IQ testing someone in West Germany vs. someone in sub-Saharan Africa. [The second issue is that if you look at ethnic groups within Africa, say Hutu v. Tutsi, or Ibo, etc., there are clear differences in cognitive potential, but Rushton wants to generalize to the level of the nation-state or continental region.]

    It seems to me that the changes in height provide a way of approximating the impacts of a richer environment on cognitive ability, so you can adjust someone like Rushton’s data to reach some approximations of the base genetic potential.

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  24. Sean says:
    @Anonymous
    Serbs seem to be a very tall people.

    Yamnaya ancestry. The tall peoples in Europe and close by all got their height from Yamnaya genes.

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  25. Sean says:
    @Twinkie

    The impressive rise in height in Japan stopped in people born after the early 1960s (Figure 6). In South Korea, the flatten- ing began in the cohorts born in the 1980s for men and it may have just begun in women. As a result, South Korean men and women are now taller than their Japanese counterparts. The rise is continuing in other East and Southeast Asian countries like China and Thailand, with Chinese men and women having surpassed the Japanese (but not yet as tall as South Koreans). The rise in adult height also seems to have plateaued in South Asian countries like Bangladesh and India at much lower levels than in East Asia, e.g., 5–10 cm shorter than it did in Japan and South Korea.
     
    Given that height is an expression of genes and diet, I doubt the average Chinese height will surpass that of Koreans. On the genetic side, Koreans are supposedly almost entirely descended from Paleolithic hunter-gatherers from eastern Siberia. Meanwhile both Japanese and Chinese have significantly more genetic inputs from earlier Austronesian (Southeast Asian) populations. The situation is somewhat comparable to that of northern vs. southern Europeans.

    On the diet side, the per capita meat consumption in the region were:

    China: 52.4 kg (2002) 58.2 kg (2009)
    Japan: 45.9 kg (2002) 45.9 kg (2009)*
    South Korea: 48 kg (2002) 54.1 kg (2009)

    My speculation is that northern Chinese will reach parity with South Koreans in the next 20-30 years in height, but southern Chinese never will, thus pulling down the Chinese average below that of South Korea.

    *And I bet the Japanese will continue to be the longest living East Asians (and perhaps the longest living industrialized population in the world).

    Twinkies!

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1164627/Children-love-sugar-faster-growth-rates.html

    In nature, sucrose is highly seasonal, even for orangutans in the tropical rain-forest (in winter orangutans are in ketosis from sugar restriction). Animals will gorge on sucrose containing food whenever they can get it. Calcium and protein in relatively moderate amounts are necessary for the building blocks, fat adds the caloric excess easily (milk gives you the lot check out https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_milk_consumption_per_capita the tall counties are salient). Given the availability the building blocks with caloric excess from fa, and then adding sugar produces an all out high growth rate mode (because you’re in permanent summer).

    The Dutch are the tallest because they are north Europeans with a high proportion of Yamnaya ancestry and the Yamnaya genes confer a genetic potential for greater height, and given the aformentioned buiding blocks caloric excess and added boost from sugar the skys the limit.

    “In a typical year, the average Dutch person consumes more than 25% more milk-based products than their British, American or German counterparts.

    Moreover; http://www.iamexpat.nl/read-and-discuss/lifestyle/news/netherlands-among-worlds-most-sugar-and-fat-crazed-countries.

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    • Replies: @Anonymous
    More importantly, milk is loaded with IGF-1 (insulin like growth factor 1), estrogen, and other growth hormones that promote growth and increased height.
    , @dearieme
    "The Dutch are the tallest because they are north Europeans with a high proportion of Yamnaya ancestry": then why weren't they tall sixty years ago?
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  26. During the 1914-18 war, the British Army had figures showing a sharp two inch drop in the average height West of the river Severn compared to East. West being former Romano-British/Welsh territory. Nevertheless, there is no right to exterminate people of lower height or IQ. Read the Gospel of St Luke, you know, the founding document of post Roman civilization.

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  27. And here’s another conversion table…

    …proving that height is a social construct!

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  28. @Twinkie

    I read the rapid increase in height in Japan post WWII was from the introduction of beef into the Japanese diet.
     
    Not just beef, but animal protein in general.

    However, look at this page: http://nbakki.hatenablog.com/entry/2014/08/18/233947

    Okinawa was the first to get McDonald's in Japan - even ahead of Tokyo. In fact, the Okinawan diet is now quiet Westernized and meat-heavy. Yet Okinawa still has the shortest average height in Japan, while the tallest people are concentrated in the northern prefectures.

    Yet Okinawa still has the shortest average height in Japan, while the tallest people are concentrated in the northern prefectures.

    I understand what you meant, but in another way, the people of the northern prefectures are the least concentrated in Japan. It would be interesting to see how affordable family formation works there.

    (Or does it?)

    There’s a local legend on the north end of Honshu that Jesus, after his resurrection, made his way there, married a local girl, and lived to 106. I’d like to hear the Japanese counterpart to Jerusalem:

    http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-35304508

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  29. Lot says:
    @ziel
    I recollect from when I was a kid in the 60's that the conventional wisdom was that the Chinese were more 'regular' in height and that any shortness was due to nutritional deficiencies, while the Japs were just plain short. This seems to be holding up pretty well - at least from my observations where Chinese and Koreans raised in America are closer to average in height while Japanese remain shorter.

    What I think would be an interesting experiment would be to perform some CRISPR edits on East Asian embryos to make them lactose tolerant, and encourage the children to drink American portions of cow's milk through their teens. Will they outperform their predicted height? While human experiments are generally unethical, I can't see how this would be - other than whole milk being institutionally racist.

    US Blacks are largely lactose intolerant but are encouraged to drink milk, and in my memery did mostly drink chocolate milk at lunch everyday all the way through high school. As well as plenty of ice cream.

    I think in an environment of cheap subsidized milk lactose intolerant people get some sort of tolerance to it via their gut biome.

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  30. The Dutch are indeed absurdly (or intimidatingly; depends on your view of the world) tall.
    I am (or was -age brings shrinkage) just under six foot, and have always considered myself neither tall nor short. In today’s Holland I am inescapably the latter, and it feels not only strange but also occasionally vexing; when, for example, one enters a shop looking for a pair of trousers and finds that even their “short” pairs are too long.
    They’ve always drunk milk and eaten copious amounts of cheese, so what exactly happened in the Sixties?

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  31. Lot says:
    @Halvorson
    When trying to convince someone that ethnic differences in IQ are a priori to be expected, it's useful to use national height as an example. I think a reasonable liberal will admit that in the wealthiest European countries people have stopped growing, and so most of the remaining national variation has a genetic cause. And there's a lot of variation! The Dutch advantage in height over the French (~3 inches) is larger than the one standard deviation gap in Black-White IQ. Some of these differences, like the height gap between north and south Europeans, are ancient in origin. But the superior height of the Dutch or Montenegrins over their close neighbors cannot be explained this way and must be the result of recent selection. It turns out the genetic basis of a highly polygenic trait like this can easily rise or fall over short time scales. Surprise!

    So the big question that no genius anthropologist has ever tried to answer is why genetic height is allowed to do this, but national IQ is magically fixed at 100 everywhere. You could try invoke balancing selection as an explanation, but that suggests that in some places today groups are "balancing" up and others down so that we should still expect to see significant differences.

    Maybe Franz Boas figured all this out in 1910.

    The Dutch are taller than all of their neighbors, with Belgium is close behind. They have been richer and more urbanized for a long time, so perhaps there was enhanced sexual selection for height starting around 1600.

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  32. FKA Max says:
    @Twinkie

    I read the rapid increase in height in Japan post WWII was from the introduction of beef into the Japanese diet.
     
    Not just beef, but animal protein in general.

    However, look at this page: http://nbakki.hatenablog.com/entry/2014/08/18/233947

    Okinawa was the first to get McDonald's in Japan - even ahead of Tokyo. In fact, the Okinawan diet is now quiet Westernized and meat-heavy. Yet Okinawa still has the shortest average height in Japan, while the tallest people are concentrated in the northern prefectures.

    As always great insights and information from you, sir.

    We had a pretty good discussion over in the other thread. Below a couple of excerpts from my comments, and at the end a dietary question for you. This is quite a long comment but worth reading, I believe. I tried to keep it as concise as possible:

    In fact, the Okinawan diet is now quiet Westernized and meat-heavy. Yet Okinawa still has the shortest average height in Japan, while the tallest people are concentrated in the northern prefectures.

    Iodine-rich seafood is, in my opinion, the food most conducive to boosting height and intelligence. Maybe the northern Japanese are still eating a more traditional seafood diet than the southern Japanese?:

    Saltwater fish and shellfish contain considerably more iodine than do freshwater species, and saltwater shellfish are the most iodine-rich of all seafood.

    Giving a very rough estimate, or average, saltwater fish has 330 micrograms of iodine per 100 grams of body weight, whereas freshwater fish has 66 mcg/g. [Two other foods are higher in iodine content than saltwater fish — dried kelp, with 62,400 mcg/g; and iodized salt, with 7,600 mcg/g.]

    http://www.unz.com/jthompson/womens-brains/#comment-1851867

    What do you think about Bergmann’s rule as another/additional explanation for why “the tallest people are concentrated in the northern prefectures.” ?

    “The more metabolically active the brain is, the more blood it requires, so the supply arteries are larger. The holes in fossil skulls are accurate gauges of arterial size.”
    [...]
    ”Smaller people have smaller arteries,” she said.
    [...]
    But you forgot to factor in Bergmann’s Rule in your analysis, which, in my opinion, would predict racial differences in IQ/intelligence caused by climate/temperature via bigger/wider arteries in taller/bigger human beings who live far away from the equator http://www.unz.com/gnxp/the-2000-year-selection-of-the-british/#comment-1415185 , which translates, as I stated above into “better-blood-supplied brains,” i.e., higher intelligence.
    [...]
    Cerebral blood flow during rest is associated with IQ and creativity.

    http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0025532

    [...]
    Resource availability thus becomes a modifying restraint on Bergmann’s Rule.
    [...]
    Some more on differences between men and women. I believe, that lower testosterone levels in women explains, why they are only slightly less intelligent than men on average, despite their on-average significantly shorter statures, etc. compared to men.
    [...]
    Like I said in an earlier comment on this thread, the most visible/obvious and reliable indicator and predictor for intelligence seems to be height
    [...]

    http://www.unz.com/jthompson/womens-brains/#comment-1850648

    You are correct people from Montenegro (population c. ~620,000) , Serbia ( ~7 million), and Croatia (~4.2 million) are an anomaly/outliers, and seem to be an exception to Bergmann’s Rule. But considering the size of that population (~16 million including Bosnia) compared to Germany (~80 million), Netherlands (~17 million), Scandinavia/Baltics (~25 million), etc., I believe the rule still generally holds. Plus you have large non-native, shorter populations living in countries like Germany, Sweden, Netherlands, which probably suppress the overall height average. Also people from the Balkans likely have higher testosterone levels than Northern Europeans on average and are lightly eye-pigmented less often
    [...]
    These are the characteristics I am looking for: height and low testosterone as indicators/proxies for intelligence; “Nordic” phenotype (light eye pigmentation) as an indicator/proxy for creativity and curiosity.
    [...]
    There are also differences between the heights of the different Nilotic peoples/tribes, plus the population of that group is not huge either; I am not exactly sure but I think it is maybe around 20 to 25 million(?), and again, their height is mostly due to their long limbs, so I am not sure their arteries would as big/wide as an equally tall, but bigger/heavier, Nordic person’s ones; which would explain their on average lower intelligence compared to Northern Europeans, despite their tallness

    http://www.unz.com/jthompson/womens-brains/#comment-1851599

    Men’s Test Scores Linked to Hormone

    http://www.nytimes.com/1991/11/14/us/men-s-test-scores-linked-to-hormone.html

    [...]
    TESTOSTERONE LEVELS can affect performance on some tests [see boxes on opposite page for examples of tests]. Women with high levels of testosterone perform better on spatial tasks (top) than women with low levels do, but men with low levels outperform men with high levels. On a mathematical reasoning test (middle), low testosterone corresponds to better performance in men; in women there is no such relation. On a test of perceptual speed in which women usually excel (bottom), no relation is found between testosterone and performance.

    – see page 4 http://www.ucd.ie/artspgs/langimp/genderbrain.pdf

    http://www.unz.com/jthompson/womens-brains/#comment-1851020

    Here is my dietary question for you now, how much does green tea affect testosterone levels in East Asian men do you think, and could this to some degree explain their mathematical aptitude compared to Westerners, and even more so compared to Africans, who seem to have the highest testosterone levels and sensitivity on average? Thank you.

    Comparative rates of androgen production and metabolism in Caucasian and Chinese subjects.

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9626146

    [...]
    Taken together, these studies suggest that environmental/dietary, but not genetic, factors influence androgen production and explain the differences between Caucasian and Chinese men.
    [...]
    This might be a possible explanation:

    Green Tea

    Research indicates that epigallocatechin-3-Gallate, or EGCG, one of the active constituents of green tea, also blocks the formation of DHT. A team of scientists from Harvard Medical School reported in the February 2003 issue of The Journal of Nutrition that green tea significantly reduced DHT and testosterone concentration in the blood.
    [...]
    First of all, most of the tea drunk in China is green tea, a much less processed tea than the standard black tea used in the West (which is often loaded with sugar and milk).
    [...]
    Whereas Westerners tend to have a cup of tea once or twice a day, using a different tea bag each time, the Chinese drink tea all day long.

    http://www.unz.com/isteve/reforming-stuyvesant-hs-admissions-should-blacks-whites-team-up-against-asian-grinds/#comment-1813320

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    • Replies: @FKA Max
    I just wanted to add one little caveat. During a mass Australian IQ test back in 2002, the results actually showed, that the people in the 180cm-200cm height range had the highest average scores, whereas the more than 201cm tall group only came in third place.

    Height
    181-200cm – 113
    161-180cm – 110
    More than 201cm – 108
    141-160cm – 105
    Less than 140cm – 104
    [...]
    Test Australia: The National IQ Test

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Test_Australia:_The_National_IQ_Test
     
    - http://www.unz.com/jthompson/isteve-metrics/#comment-1827416

    What this could indicate, is that beyond a certain height/weight it might be harder for the cardio-vascular system to keep up with properly supplying the brain, etc. with oxygen, nutrients, etc.

    This is just speculation on my part to possibly explain this unexpected result; but the result was not completely surprising to me personally, since I have some personal anecdotal evidence and experiences -- by having spent much of my life around very tall people, both men and women -- which somewhat confirm this result.
    One of my cousins is 202cm tall, and he is the nicest person you could ever meet, truly the stereotypical ``Gentle Giant.'' But I always felt, that he was somewhat ``slow,'' meaning, that he seemed to have longer reaction times than me on average it seemed, etc. I have experienced the same with other very tall persons. They seem to be lacking in the hand-eye coordination department as well, i.e., think Shaq O'Neal and his challenge with free throws. Slower reaction times and challenges with hand-eye coordination could be due to and a proxy/indicator of slower neural processing speeds.

    Shooting Ability and Size

    In NBA, majority of players have height between 6-6 and 6-9. Best shooting height size is 6-3 with the average free throw % of .827 and the worst is 6-11 with .671. Just note that, for our analysis, the height categories below 6-0 and over 7-0 are unreliable statistically as they covered so few players. For 7-2 size, there are only two players (with at least 10 FTA in the season) who are Roy Hibbert and Alexis Ajinca. Both of them surprisingly are very good free throw shooters. The following table and graph depict that as height increases, the FT% decreases.
    [...] For weight, majority of players are between 211-250 lbs. The negative effect of weight on FT% is clearly visible. Best shooting weight is 161-180 lbs. range and the worst is 261-270.[...] So, this time we did the partial correlation analysis, and we looked the relationship of two variables while controlling the effect of other. While controlling the height; weight and free throw percentages are again negatively correlated at %99 significance level. But on the other hand, while controlling the effect of weight; height and FT % are not correlated at all! Hence, it seems we discovered something meaningful here, which is, the shooting ability (or hand-eye coordination) is mainly affected with weight rather than height.
    [...] To conclude, we applied the identical procedure this time while selecting same weight players, we split the data according to their height and compared their FT% averages. As it is seen the table below, although longer guys have lower FT% average (.6740), this is not significantly lower than the shorter guys (.7099) statistically (sig. value > 0.05).
    All these analysis prove an important finding: the shooting ability is negatively affected by weight but not with height.
     
    - http://www.nbaminer.com/shooting-ability-and-size/

    My ``Gentle Giant'' cousin has a very large frame and was/is somewhat on the heavier side weight-wise, but not terribly so.

    I still believe that the ''cognitive ability sweet spot'' could be somewhere in the 180cm-200cm height range, probably more towards the upper boundary of that height range, maybe in the 190cm-196cm region(?), provided these tall persons are not overweight, plus having below average testosterone for males will additionally boost cognitive ability/mental clarity/rationality: http://www.unz.com/jthompson/isteve-metrics/#comment-1823832

    The Australian mass IQ test also found that grey-haired persons scored among the highest, which could suggest/prove, again, that lower testosterone due to progressing age, at least up to a certain age, is beneficial to cognitive functioning:

    Hair colour
    Red – 111
    Grey – 111
    Brown – 111
    Blonde – 109
    Black – 109
    Bald – 108
     
    , @Twinkie

    Here is my dietary question for you now, how much does green tea affect testosterone levels in East Asian men do you think, and could this to some degree explain their mathematical aptitude compared to Westerners, and even more so compared to Africans, who seem to have the highest testosterone levels and sensitivity on average? Thank you.
     
    This is above my pay grade, so to speak, but I doubt green tea has much to do with Asian mathematical aptitude. South Koreans hardly drink any green tea (they are inveterate coffee drinkers).

    I would imagine tofu consumption probably has more to do with lowering testosterone than green tea consumption does.
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  33. FKA Max says:
    @Twinkie

    I read the rapid increase in height in Japan post WWII was from the introduction of beef into the Japanese diet.
     
    Not just beef, but animal protein in general.

    However, look at this page: http://nbakki.hatenablog.com/entry/2014/08/18/233947

    Okinawa was the first to get McDonald's in Japan - even ahead of Tokyo. In fact, the Okinawan diet is now quiet Westernized and meat-heavy. Yet Okinawa still has the shortest average height in Japan, while the tallest people are concentrated in the northern prefectures.

    There is also this, which could explain the greater average height in Hokkaido prefecture et al. I don’t know, however, how often/extensively the Japanese intermarried with the Ainu people of Hokkaido. This could, again, be a confirmation of Bergmann’s and Allen’s rules:

    Besides the political controversy of the plight of the Ainu people, they have also raised other debates within anthropology and hominology. One such debate is that of the very origins and history of this people. Ainu are very different in physical appearance than ethnic Japanese and other Asian peoples. Taller than average Japanese, the Ainu typically have a long skull, light complexion, heavy facial hair, and Caucasian features. Their hair tends to be thick and wavy, and body hair is also more pronounced. Aside from the physical differences, the Ainu language is also quite unique, showing no relation to Japanese or other Asian languages. These unique differences have posed an often debated mystery. Who are the Ainu and where did they come from?

    http://cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/ainu/

    because these “Arctic Mongoloids” have similar features in accordance with Allen’s rule: a narrow nasal passage, relatively large heads, long to round heads, large jaws, relatively large bodies, and short limbs.

    http://www.unz.com/jthompson/womens-brains/#comment-1850648

    Tests of ecogeographical relationships in a non-native species: what rules avian morphology?

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26936361

    Patterns of variation in body mass and bill surface area were consistent with Bergmann’s and Allen’s rules, respectively (small body size and larger bill size in warmer climates), with maximum summer temperature being a strongly weighted predictor of both variables.

    http://www.unz.com/jthompson/womens-brains/#comment-1851599

    Some more interesting information on the intelligence and testosterone link:

    By the age of 19, 80% of US males and 75% of women have lost their virginity, and 87% of college students have had sex. But this number appears to be much lower at elite (i.e. more intelligent) colleges. According to the article, only 56% of Princeton undergraduates have had intercourse. At Harvard 59% of the undergraduates are non-virgins, and at MIT, only a slight majority, 51%, have had intercourse. Further, only 65% of MIT graduate students have had sex.
    [...]
    James Watson even hinted at this in a recent Esquire magazine piece:

    If I had been married earlier in life, I wouldn’t have seen the double helix. I would have been taking care of the kids on Saturday. On the other hand, I was lonely a lot of the time.
    [...]
    So intelligent people have lower libidos and less masculine physiques. What hormone is responsible for both sex drive and masculine builds? That’s right: testosterone.

    http://www.gnxp.com/blog/2007/04/intercourse-and-intelligence.php

    Real Genius (1/8) Movie CLIP – All Brain, No Penis (1985) HD

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    • Replies: @Twinkie

    Caucasian features
     
    They don't. It's a giant myth that the Ainu were some sort of an Aryan remnant in Asia whose intermarriage with the "Mongoloid" Japanese made the latter more European/Western than other Asians.

    It was a faulty theory proposed by early 20th Century Europeans who were perplexed by the stunning rise of the Japanese military capability (e.g. the Russo-Japanese War).

    Who are the Ainu and where did they come from?
     
    They are the descendants of the Emishi, a proto-Mongoloid people indigenous to eastern Siberia, Sakhalin, and northern Japan.
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  34. @jill
    My boyfriend is tall, over 6'4". We recently went to a concert at Lincoln Center in New York. The lobby happened to be packed and after looking around. my boyfriend remarked that while there were a good number of senior men in the crowd, there were no tall old men. Should I be worried? Do tall men die young?

    Tall people have a slightly higher chance of some kinds of cancer.

    But also, people shrink as they get old.

    And New Yorkers were pretty short in the past: I can remember riding the subway in 1979 with some guys from Rice U. and noticing how we carried on conversations over other riders’ heads, literally.

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    • Replies: @Anonymous
    "I can remember riding the subway in 1979 with some guys from Rice U. and noticing how we carried on conversations over other riders’ heads, literally."

    I remember a similar experience in the 90s at a museum when a large group of Asian tourists were going through. Makes you start to feel like Gulliver.
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  35. @dearieme
    (i) When I was a boy nobody thought Dutchmen particularly tall by NW European standards. (That was consistent with the few Dutchmen I met.) But since then they seem to have leapt up. I've never heard a plausible explanation. There's no point saying they enjoy cheese and milk at breakfast - they always have, as far as I know.

    (ii) When we lived in Oz the men seemed no taller than the men we were used to in Britain. The Oz women were noticeably taller than British women though.

    (iii) Have racial changes been properly accounted for in these figures? I mean, if a country receives short/tall immigrants and their children are short/tall too, has this effect been subtracted so that there are figures for the indigenous population? If not the figures for many countries would hopelessly confound different effects.

    “The Oz women were noticeably taller than British women though.”

    Different fashions involving height of heels could have a big impact on perceptions of female height.

    I was finally watching the sitcom “Veep” with Julia Louis-Dreyfus, who is fairly short, as the Vice President and a lot of the jokes involve her taking off and hurriedly putting back on her high heels. The show apparently casts tall actors and short actresses and finds some humor in that, and without setting off too many Diversity alarms.

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    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    From "Veep:"

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eETuZBeSxuA
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  36. @sb
    Worth considering is that Australia had more Post War Dutch Immigration than from any other mainland European Country

    Don't know about that

    I would say that while post war Dutch immigration to Australia was significant it was less than the numbers from any of Italy ,Greece , Germany and ( the former ) Yugoslavia

    Mind you as Australia has became less NW European in ancestry I reckon the average height has gone down , For instance Southern Italian migrants were quite short on average .
    It is also noticeable that the many Asians who are more recent arrivals are far taller than the Asian norm ie it's a class/money/ intelligence thing

    Yugoslavians tend to be tall: ex-Yugoslavian countries do well in Olympic team sports favoring height like basketball, volleyball, and water polo.

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    • Replies: @sb
    I agree
    Athletes of former Yugoslavian ancestry -particularly Croatian -are quite conspicuous in many sports in Australia
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  37. Michelle says:
    @Anonymous
    The pace of growth in height has not been uniform over the past century. The impressive rise in height in Japan stopped in people born after the early 1960s (Figure 6). In South Korea, the flatten- ing began in the cohorts born in the 1980s for men and it may have just begun in women. As a result, South Korean men and women are now taller than their Japanese counterparts. The rise is continuing in other East and Southeast Asian countries like China and Thailand, with Chinese men and women having surpassed the Japanese (but not yet as tall as South Koreans). The rise in adult height also seems to have plateaued in South Asian countries like Bangladesh and India at much lower levels than in East Asia, e.g., 5–10 cm shorter than it did in Japan and South Korea.

    As a youth, I was an exchange student to Japan. The time corresponded to my first teenage growth spurt, and diet being as poor in protein as it is, I could pull out strands of my hair by running my hands through my hair. I somewhat up for it by buying protein snacks and beef jerky. This was in the 1990s. But it was likely better than it had been.

    The East Asian rice-based diet is generally pretty protein-poor. That the East Asians were already as intelligent as they were given the diet, with a better diet they were supercharged (like the African-Americans are, but starting from a higher IQ base). I suspect that the IQ-based Flynn effect, along with the proportion of demographics fitting in the age 20-45yo cohort of hard working innovators, had a reasonable amount to do with the economic success of Japan when it peaked, as well as South Korea and China, along with the low starting base of wages allowing for significant profit and reinvestment. If someone starts out at a very low rate, you can give generous increases for a long time before they become uncompetitive and capital shifts to another country.

    A lot of Japanese people, due to cultural influences, are pretty uptight about food. Koreans eat a lot of beef, whilst many Japanese and Chinese people are actually afraid of beef, despite Oyster Sauce Beef and the Kobe Beef fetish. My Chinese-American friend claims that beef gives her a stomach ache. I think it makes me smell funny, so I eat it but rarely, no pun intended!

    It seems to me, that beef or the hormones we give the beeves is the seat of all growth and fertility and that those who consume beeves are selected for in every aspect of physical superiority. Mental, maybe, not so much!

    I have a Chinese co-worker, who, despite being a lesbian, has, due to family pressure, married a man and has been unable to become pregnant due to the fact that she cannot bring herself to eat protein, other than the salted duck eggs that rest in the middle of the Chinese tamales she eats every day for lunch. I have other Asian co-workers who eat McDonald’s every day and they are huge. Girls 6ft tall. I bet they’d get pregnant if they sat on a toilet seat after a guy did.

    My Chinese supervisor is super picky about food, hates beef and most meat and had to undergo lots of fertility treatments in order to have one son. When she travels to China, she is so afraid of the food, she only eats rice made with bottled water.

    A Japanese co-worker, who was a strict vegetarian and used to offer us lots of advice on food consumption, just died of pancreatic cancer. Another Chinese co-worker, around 20, 5’10, and grossly obese, eats a full McDonald’s lunch every day, with 2 apple pies as chasers, then eats her homemade Chinese lunch a half hour later, because she thinks it unhealthy to not eat the Chinese food. Somehow she thinks it counteracts the McDonald’s. This drives me nuts!

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zongzi

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    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    Your comments are always unique and entertaining.
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  38. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @Sean
    Twinkies!

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1164627/Children-love-sugar-faster-growth-rates.html

    In nature, sucrose is highly seasonal, even for orangutans in the tropical rain-forest (in winter orangutans are in ketosis from sugar restriction). Animals will gorge on sucrose containing food whenever they can get it. Calcium and protein in relatively moderate amounts are necessary for the building blocks, fat adds the caloric excess easily (milk gives you the lot check out https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_milk_consumption_per_capita the tall counties are salient). Given the availability the building blocks with caloric excess from fa, and then adding sugar produces an all out high growth rate mode (because you're in permanent summer).

    The Dutch are the tallest because they are north Europeans with a high proportion of Yamnaya ancestry and the Yamnaya genes confer a genetic potential for greater height, and given the aformentioned buiding blocks caloric excess and added boost from sugar the skys the limit.


    "In a typical year, the average Dutch person consumes more than 25% more milk-based products than their British, American or German counterparts.
     
    Moreover; http://www.iamexpat.nl/read-and-discuss/lifestyle/news/netherlands-among-worlds-most-sugar-and-fat-crazed-countries.

    More importantly, milk is loaded with IGF-1 (insulin like growth factor 1), estrogen, and other growth hormones that promote growth and increased height.

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    • Replies: @Sean
    I'm not sure of the hormones being in the milk in sufficient quantity, milk may affect the body's own production of those hormones you mentioned and the huge amount of calcium in milk could plausibly affect Parathyroid hormone. Whatever it is in milk (bodybuilders use milk derived protein a lot) I am convinced that to a mammal metabolism sucrose signifies summer, and a period for intensified growth. Year round sugar adds something to growth. But given the same diet, Sardinians are never going to be as anything like as tall as any predominantly Yamnaya -descended North Europeans.
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  39. prosa123 says: • Website

    Harkening back to your query about the tallest well-known people whose heights are irrelevant to their claims to fame (in other words, no athletes or actors), if a top YouTube star can count as a celebrity these days, the 2.5-million-followers Hickok45 (Greg Kinman) certainly is a contender. He is 6’8″, which is especially remarkable because he is at least in his mid to late 60′s and undoubtedly has lost some height with age.

    Even if you’re not into guns his videos are highly entertaining.

    https://www.youtube.com/user/hickok45/featured

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    • Replies: @FKA Max


    Dave Pinsen said...

    Had no idea Pinkerton was that tall.

    If you include professional athletes in this list, and 6'5" is your floor, you can find plenty who are famous for being pro athletes without being famous for being the tallest guys in their sport.

    But a non-athlete you could add to this list is Paul Volcker, who is 6'7", I think.
    9/12/13, 10:46 PM
     
    - http://isteve.blogspot.com/2013/09/tallest-famous-men-not-famous-for-being.html


    This would put John Maynard Keynes at a circa 20 IQ point advantage to Milton Friedman, just on their height difference.

    Who would you trust with and want to put in charge of designing and managing your economy, Milton Friedman or John Maynard Keynes?
     
    - http://www.unz.com/jthompson/womens-brains/#comment-1852997

    Conclusion: Baby-faced (low testosterone), tall guys are the most intelligent people on the planet.

    Warren Buffett fits that bill, in my opinion. He is not extremely tall (5’10”), but not short either, and he has quite a baby face going for himself.

    Also John Maynard Keynes (6’6”) and John Forbes Nash (6’1”).
    [ Also Aldous Huxley (6 feet 4 1/2 inches tall). ]
     
    - http://www.unz.com/jthompson/the-secret-in-your-eyes/#comment-1803147

    After his return to the front, he was wounded in the throat by a sniper's bullet. At 6 ft 2 in (1.88 m) Orwell was considerably taller than the Spanish fighters[62] and had been warned against standing against the trench parapet. - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Orwell#The_Spanish_Civil_War

    Oscar Wilde 6 feet 3 inches.

    Steven Fry, who played Oscar Wilde 6 feet 5 inches.

    John Cleese 6 feet 5 inches.

    [Hunter S.] Thompson [6' 3''] on Conan [6' 4''] - http://www.unz.com/runz/when-viacom-ceo-philippe-dauman-still-had-an-iq-of-260/#comment-1525753

    When Viacom CEO Philippe Dauman Still Had an IQ of 260

    If Philippe Dauman was in the 6’2”+ height range, I would believe the tall tale more readily. - http://www.unz.com/runz/when-viacom-ceo-philippe-dauman-still-had-an-iq-of-260/#comment-1521962

    I believe it’s because unlike height, no one can directly observe our intelligence so it’s extremely tempting to lie about it, and since everyone else is lying or very selectively and disingenuously reporting their IQ’s, massive IQ inflation occurs, and we have to greatly inflate our IQ’s just to keep them in the same rank order as everyone else’s self-reported IQ’s.
     
    - http://www.unz.com/runz/when-viacom-ceo-philippe-dauman-still-had-an-iq-of-260/#comment-1522194
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  40. pyrrhus says:

    The big problem with this “study” is that the ethnic composition of Americans has changed over the last century. I’d like to see what it would say if ethnicity was controlled for….

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  41. FKA Max says:
    @prosa123
    Harkening back to your query about the tallest well-known people whose heights are irrelevant to their claims to fame (in other words, no athletes or actors), if a top YouTube star can count as a celebrity these days, the 2.5-million-followers Hickok45 (Greg Kinman) certainly is a contender. He is 6'8", which is especially remarkable because he is at least in his mid to late 60's and undoubtedly has lost some height with age.

    Even if you're not into guns his videos are highly entertaining.


    https://www.youtube.com/user/hickok45/featured

    Dave Pinsen said…

    Had no idea Pinkerton was that tall.

    If you include professional athletes in this list, and 6’5″ is your floor, you can find plenty who are famous for being pro athletes without being famous for being the tallest guys in their sport.

    But a non-athlete you could add to this list is Paul Volcker, who is 6’7″, I think.
    9/12/13, 10:46 PM

    http://isteve.blogspot.com/2013/09/tallest-famous-men-not-famous-for-being.html

    This would put John Maynard Keynes at a circa 20 IQ point advantage to Milton Friedman, just on their height difference.

    Who would you trust with and want to put in charge of designing and managing your economy, Milton Friedman or John Maynard Keynes?

    http://www.unz.com/jthompson/womens-brains/#comment-1852997

    Conclusion: Baby-faced (low testosterone), tall guys are the most intelligent people on the planet.

    Warren Buffett fits that bill, in my opinion. He is not extremely tall (5’10”), but not short either, and he has quite a baby face going for himself.

    Also John Maynard Keynes (6’6”) and John Forbes Nash (6’1”).
    [ Also Aldous Huxley (6 feet 4 1/2 inches tall). ]

    http://www.unz.com/jthompson/the-secret-in-your-eyes/#comment-1803147

    After his return to the front, he was wounded in the throat by a sniper’s bullet. At 6 ft 2 in (1.88 m) Orwell was considerably taller than the Spanish fighters[62] and had been warned against standing against the trench parapet.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Orwell#The_Spanish_Civil_War

    Oscar Wilde 6 feet 3 inches.

    Steven Fry, who played Oscar Wilde 6 feet 5 inches.

    John Cleese 6 feet 5 inches.

    [Hunter S.] Thompson [6' 3''] on Conan [6' 4''] http://www.unz.com/runz/when-viacom-ceo-philippe-dauman-still-had-an-iq-of-260/#comment-1525753

    When Viacom CEO Philippe Dauman Still Had an IQ of 260

    If Philippe Dauman was in the 6’2”+ height range, I would believe the tall tale more readily.http://www.unz.com/runz/when-viacom-ceo-philippe-dauman-still-had-an-iq-of-260/#comment-1521962

    I believe it’s because unlike height, no one can directly observe our intelligence so it’s extremely tempting to lie about it, and since everyone else is lying or very selectively and disingenuously reporting their IQ’s, massive IQ inflation occurs, and we have to greatly inflate our IQ’s just to keep them in the same rank order as everyone else’s self-reported IQ’s.

    http://www.unz.com/runz/when-viacom-ceo-philippe-dauman-still-had-an-iq-of-260/#comment-1522194

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    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    I went to a conference once with Pinkerton, who is close to 6'10", and another pundit who is 6'8".
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  42. @FKA Max


    Dave Pinsen said...

    Had no idea Pinkerton was that tall.

    If you include professional athletes in this list, and 6'5" is your floor, you can find plenty who are famous for being pro athletes without being famous for being the tallest guys in their sport.

    But a non-athlete you could add to this list is Paul Volcker, who is 6'7", I think.
    9/12/13, 10:46 PM
     
    - http://isteve.blogspot.com/2013/09/tallest-famous-men-not-famous-for-being.html


    This would put John Maynard Keynes at a circa 20 IQ point advantage to Milton Friedman, just on their height difference.

    Who would you trust with and want to put in charge of designing and managing your economy, Milton Friedman or John Maynard Keynes?
     
    - http://www.unz.com/jthompson/womens-brains/#comment-1852997

    Conclusion: Baby-faced (low testosterone), tall guys are the most intelligent people on the planet.

    Warren Buffett fits that bill, in my opinion. He is not extremely tall (5’10”), but not short either, and he has quite a baby face going for himself.

    Also John Maynard Keynes (6’6”) and John Forbes Nash (6’1”).
    [ Also Aldous Huxley (6 feet 4 1/2 inches tall). ]
     
    - http://www.unz.com/jthompson/the-secret-in-your-eyes/#comment-1803147

    After his return to the front, he was wounded in the throat by a sniper's bullet. At 6 ft 2 in (1.88 m) Orwell was considerably taller than the Spanish fighters[62] and had been warned against standing against the trench parapet. - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Orwell#The_Spanish_Civil_War

    Oscar Wilde 6 feet 3 inches.

    Steven Fry, who played Oscar Wilde 6 feet 5 inches.

    John Cleese 6 feet 5 inches.

    [Hunter S.] Thompson [6' 3''] on Conan [6' 4''] - http://www.unz.com/runz/when-viacom-ceo-philippe-dauman-still-had-an-iq-of-260/#comment-1525753

    When Viacom CEO Philippe Dauman Still Had an IQ of 260

    If Philippe Dauman was in the 6’2”+ height range, I would believe the tall tale more readily. - http://www.unz.com/runz/when-viacom-ceo-philippe-dauman-still-had-an-iq-of-260/#comment-1521962

    I believe it’s because unlike height, no one can directly observe our intelligence so it’s extremely tempting to lie about it, and since everyone else is lying or very selectively and disingenuously reporting their IQ’s, massive IQ inflation occurs, and we have to greatly inflate our IQ’s just to keep them in the same rank order as everyone else’s self-reported IQ’s.
     
    - http://www.unz.com/runz/when-viacom-ceo-philippe-dauman-still-had-an-iq-of-260/#comment-1522194

    I went to a conference once with Pinkerton, who is close to 6’10″, and another pundit who is 6’8″.

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    • Replies: @FKA Max
    There is also Stedham Graham ( 6 feet 7 inches).

    I think Oprah might have quite and quietly benefited from his advice/intelligence/height.

    Tony Robbins is the same height, I believe, 6 feet 7 inches.

    "I was 5'1" my sophomore year in high school, and now I'm 6'7", you know. So I tell the people the difference is personal growth"

    I grew almost 10 inches my junior year, but I didn’t discover why until I was 31 and a doctor told me I had a tumor in my brain. That was a brutal day, a moment of humbling disbelief, anger and doubt. I’d been healthy as a horse but was told I had a rare disorder called acromegaly, which caused the excessive growth spurt in my teens. At six-foot-seven, with size 16 feet. - http://www.celebheights.com/s/Tony-Robbins-3030.html

    Dr. Phil 6 feet 4 inches.

    Oprah seems to have figured out, that it is a smart move to surround herself with tall guys.

    Personal Growth seems to be good for business ;-)

    Egalitarianism versus Reality

    In additional to the presumption of autonomy, there seems to be a certain egalitarian assumption underlying the demand for self-help: that the end result being sought is attainable to virtually all. Counters Valiunas: “Beauty, size, strength, health, energy, disposition, verbal or spatial or mathematical or emotional intelligence, ability in music or painting or oratory simply are not parceled out equally- and in any chosen activity, not even a single-minded devotion or expert training and wholesome diet can ensure that all will come out even in the end. Natural inequalities will always make for differences between one person and the next, and these differences will always be cause for unhappiness.” - http://brainblogger.com/2014/05/23/the-self-help-industry-helps-itself-to-billions-of-dollars/
    , @FKA Max
    And not to forget, Mark Zuckerberg (5 feet 7 inches) benefited from the Winkelvoss twins' intelligence/height (6 feet 5 inches) ;-)

    I actually went to boarding school with and rowed in the same rowing program as one of the Winkelvosses' Harvard crew-mates.

    Howard also has a connection to The Social Network, having won two NCAA championships in the Harvard eight with crew-mates Cameron and Tyler Winklevoss, the twin brothers who are portrayed in the movie as suing Facebook founder Mark Zuckerberg.
     
    - https://www.pressreader.com/canada/times-colonist/20130305/282273842787944

    He is taller than them (6 feet 6 inches) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malcolm_Howard_(rower)
    , @Sean
    The longer your legs (independent of height) the less likely you are to die of a heart attack. Long legs are probably a sign of good prenatal development. It is a sign of general good health in the cardiovascular domain. Tallness probably has something to do with testosterone, front, and confidence. Revilo Oliver was 6'5'' remarkable for a man of his generation, William L. Pierce was 6'3'' or 4'', both were professors as well as loathed far right commentators. Many comedians are seriously tall: Chevy Chase and Will Ferrell both 6'5'', as is Conan O'Brien. Albert Einstein (Brooks) the comedian is 5ft 10.25in. Jews tend to be a little shorter for the same intellectual qualities. Genuine self made men of action leaders like Naploeon, Gabriele D'Annunzio, Mussolini, Churchill (high born so not great example), Stalin and Hitler tend to be average height if not noticeably short.

    Bobby Fischer with a doubtless extremely high but difficult to quantify IQ is taller than I expected- a well built 6'1. Prodigy William James Sidis looks to have been a brawny six footer as is that bouncer fellow Christopher Langan, both have no unusual achievements . On the other hand, Norman Mailer big persona and moderate achievement, IQ of 170 it is said, was a small man. Paul Volker is probably the only one I can find with assumable very high IQ and awesome height (6 feet 7 inches). Volker is supposed to be half Jewish.

    From a quick look at photos, John Von Neuman was about 5' 8'' or so, Albert Einstein the physicist was 5'9, both respectable heights for Jewish men of that time. Richard Feyman has been estimated at a flat six foot. At the Everest of brainpower achievement (ie the common or garden Jewish geniuses) middling to tallish for their group seems to be the rule. but they is certainly no tendency for real giants, not by any standard

    All these people, especially the earlier born ones would be inches taller if born today AOTBE I suspect. Yes, a Flynn type effect, but no evidence that height will be equal across ethnicity, given a universally optimum growth environment for maximal tallness. Genes are still the most important factor.

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  43. @Steve Sailer
    "The Oz women were noticeably taller than British women though."

    Different fashions involving height of heels could have a big impact on perceptions of female height.

    I was finally watching the sitcom "Veep" with Julia Louis-Dreyfus, who is fairly short, as the Vice President and a lot of the jokes involve her taking off and hurriedly putting back on her high heels. The show apparently casts tall actors and short actresses and finds some humor in that, and without setting off too many Diversity alarms.

    From “Veep:”

    Read More
    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    And then there's Congressman Furlong:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BfaALtuZ7vM
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  44. @Steve Sailer
    From "Veep:"

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eETuZBeSxuA

    And then there’s Congressman Furlong:

    Read More
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  45. anon says: • Disclaimer
    @sb
    Worth considering is that Australia had more Post War Dutch Immigration than from any other mainland European Country

    Don't know about that

    I would say that while post war Dutch immigration to Australia was significant it was less than the numbers from any of Italy ,Greece , Germany and ( the former ) Yugoslavia

    Mind you as Australia has became less NW European in ancestry I reckon the average height has gone down , For instance Southern Italian migrants were quite short on average .
    It is also noticeable that the many Asians who are more recent arrivals are far taller than the Asian norm ie it's a class/money/ intelligence thing

    You’re right.
    The Dutch were in 3rd place up to 1959, behind Italians and Germans, then the Greeks poured in, relegating the Dutch to 4th place by 1970.
    The Dutch were also the most likely to leave, either to the U.S. or Canada, or back to Europe.
    The promises of the dodgy Australian Government didn’t match the reality of life her in the early fifties.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post-war_immigration_to_Australia#Breakdown_of_arrivals_by_decade

    Read More
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  46. anon says: • Disclaimer
    @Anon
    The Dutch/French gap is probably dietary. The Dutch have always been milk drinkers, but even today, the French think drinking milk is weird. You're supposed to drink wine and strong coffee drunk black, which do nothing to add height and may even retard it.

    My mother was a child, living on her parents dairy farm when the American military occupied Queensland [Australia] from 1942 to 1945.
    At the time, the Industry was socialised. and dairies supplied cream to a State Marketing Board.
    The skim [milk] was fed to pigs to fatten them.
    All this changed in early 1942, she remembered that the Americans were ”mad for milk”, to the bemusement of Australians, since there had been no demand for fresh milk previously, it was used to grow pigs [hogs].

    Read More
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  47. anon says: • Disclaimer
    @Anon
    The Dutch/French gap is probably dietary. The Dutch have always been milk drinkers, but even today, the French think drinking milk is weird. You're supposed to drink wine and strong coffee drunk black, which do nothing to add height and may even retard it.

    My mother was a child, living on her parents dairy farm when the American military occupied Queensland [Australia] from 1942 to 1945.
    At the time, the Industry was socialised. and dairies supplied cream to a State Marketing Board.
    The skim [milk] was fed to pigs to fatten them.
    All this changed in early 1942, she remembered that the Americans were ”mad for milk”, to the bemusement of Australians, since there had been no demand for fresh milk previously, it was used to grow pigs [hogs].

    Since milk drinking became universal in post war Australia, it would be interesting to compare heights of native born Australians pre & post 1945.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Tacitus
    My old mum grew up on a dairy farm in Northern NSW. Quite strangely they eschewed milk. My mum and her sisters, now in their 70's, were 5'11 and 6'0 in their day. Meat and 3 veg. every dinner, very paleo diet, they grew everything on the farm. My nephew born in Australia 1994 is 6'4, my oldest boy will be about the same height.

    My uncle's mum was a teen girl when the Americans arrived in Brisbane during WW2. His biological father a US soldier he never met. He tracked down his father's family back in the 90's but they didn't want to talk to him.
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  48. FKA Max says:
    @Steve Sailer
    I went to a conference once with Pinkerton, who is close to 6'10", and another pundit who is 6'8".

    There is also Stedham Graham ( 6 feet 7 inches).

    I think Oprah might have quite and quietly benefited from his advice/intelligence/height.

    Tony Robbins is the same height, I believe, 6 feet 7 inches.

    “I was 5’1″ my sophomore year in high school, and now I’m 6’7″, you know. So I tell the people the difference is personal growth”

    I grew almost 10 inches my junior year, but I didn’t discover why until I was 31 and a doctor told me I had a tumor in my brain. That was a brutal day, a moment of humbling disbelief, anger and doubt. I’d been healthy as a horse but was told I had a rare disorder called acromegaly, which caused the excessive growth spurt in my teens. At six-foot-seven, with size 16 feet.http://www.celebheights.com/s/Tony-Robbins-3030.html

    Dr. Phil 6 feet 4 inches.

    Oprah seems to have figured out, that it is a smart move to surround herself with tall guys.

    Personal Growth seems to be good for business ;-)

    Egalitarianism versus Reality

    In additional to the presumption of autonomy, there seems to be a certain egalitarian assumption underlying the demand for self-help: that the end result being sought is attainable to virtually all. Counters Valiunas: “Beauty, size, strength, health, energy, disposition, verbal or spatial or mathematical or emotional intelligence, ability in music or painting or oratory simply are not parceled out equally- and in any chosen activity, not even a single-minded devotion or expert training and wholesome diet can ensure that all will come out even in the end. Natural inequalities will always make for differences between one person and the next, and these differences will always be cause for unhappiness.” – http://brainblogger.com/2014/05/23/the-self-help-industry-helps-itself-to-billions-of-dollars/

    Read More
    • Replies: @FKA Max

    Oprah seems to have figured out, that it is a smart move to surround herself with tall guys.
     
    Napoleon surrounded himself with tall guys, as well. This indicates to me, that both him and Oprah were/are probably pretty self-confident personalities with a healthy/high self-esteem, because they don't mind/fear to be physically/staturelly upstaged.

    Interestingly, there is evidence that Napoleon was already considered short at the time of his death, despite being above average height among his fellow Frenchman. This likely stems from the fact that his personal bodyguards were all very tall and broad; there being height requirements for his guard. So wherever he went, people saw him with his guards who were all much bigger than him and thus he looked small in comparison, earning him the nickname “Le Petit Caporel” or in English “The Little Corporal”, though in his day this was typically used as a term of affection for him and not as an insult.
     
    - http://www.todayifoundout.com/index.php/2010/03/napolean-bonaparte-having-been-short-is-a-myth/
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  49. FKA Max says:
    @Steve Sailer
    I went to a conference once with Pinkerton, who is close to 6'10", and another pundit who is 6'8".

    And not to forget, Mark Zuckerberg (5 feet 7 inches) benefited from the Winkelvoss twins’ intelligence/height (6 feet 5 inches) ;-)

    I actually went to boarding school with and rowed in the same rowing program as one of the Winkelvosses’ Harvard crew-mates.

    Howard also has a connection to The Social Network, having won two NCAA championships in the Harvard eight with crew-mates Cameron and Tyler Winklevoss, the twin brothers who are portrayed in the movie as suing Facebook founder Mark Zuckerberg.

    https://www.pressreader.com/canada/times-colonist/20130305/282273842787944

    He is taller than them (6 feet 6 inches) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malcolm_Howard_(rower)

    Read More
    • Replies: @Sean
    That height is nothing unusual for a native Dutchman now. Six foot ethno-Dutch women are ten a penny in the Netherlands.
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  50. @Steve Sailer
    Are Serbs broken out in this data?

    Yes, in figures 4, 5, and 7. I had to download them and open them in some decent photo-editing app (I used Paint 3D) to be able to zoom in.

    Read More
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  51. Sean says:
    @Anonymous
    More importantly, milk is loaded with IGF-1 (insulin like growth factor 1), estrogen, and other growth hormones that promote growth and increased height.

    I’m not sure of the hormones being in the milk in sufficient quantity, milk may affect the body’s own production of those hormones you mentioned and the huge amount of calcium in milk could plausibly affect Parathyroid hormone. Whatever it is in milk (bodybuilders use milk derived protein a lot) I am convinced that to a mammal metabolism sucrose signifies summer, and a period for intensified growth. Year round sugar adds something to growth. But given the same diet, Sardinians are never going to be as anything like as tall as any predominantly Yamnaya -descended North Europeans.

    Read More
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  52. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @Steve Sailer
    Tall people have a slightly higher chance of some kinds of cancer.

    But also, people shrink as they get old.

    And New Yorkers were pretty short in the past: I can remember riding the subway in 1979 with some guys from Rice U. and noticing how we carried on conversations over other riders' heads, literally.

    “I can remember riding the subway in 1979 with some guys from Rice U. and noticing how we carried on conversations over other riders’ heads, literally.”

    I remember a similar experience in the 90s at a museum when a large group of Asian tourists were going through. Makes you start to feel like Gulliver.

    Read More
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  53. Tacitus says:
    @anon
    My mother was a child, living on her parents dairy farm when the American military occupied Queensland [Australia] from 1942 to 1945.
    At the time, the Industry was socialised. and dairies supplied cream to a State Marketing Board.
    The skim [milk] was fed to pigs to fatten them.
    All this changed in early 1942, she remembered that the Americans were ''mad for milk'', to the bemusement of Australians, since there had been no demand for fresh milk previously, it was used to grow pigs [hogs].

    Since milk drinking became universal in post war Australia, it would be interesting to compare heights of native born Australians pre & post 1945.

    My old mum grew up on a dairy farm in Northern NSW. Quite strangely they eschewed milk. My mum and her sisters, now in their 70′s, were 5’11 and 6’0 in their day. Meat and 3 veg. every dinner, very paleo diet, they grew everything on the farm. My nephew born in Australia 1994 is 6’4, my oldest boy will be about the same height.

    My uncle’s mum was a teen girl when the Americans arrived in Brisbane during WW2. His biological father a US soldier he never met. He tracked down his father’s family back in the 90′s but they didn’t want to talk to him.

    Read More
    • Replies: @anon
    Mum said they laughed at the idea of drinking milk, but her father made plenty of money out of it while the Yanks were in Rockhampton. They also insisted on pasteurisation, so there must have been a fair bit of infrastructure built around it, and milk drinking took off with the locals after the Yanks left.
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  54. Mark Caplan says: • Website

    Lenin: 5′ 5″.
    Stalin: 5′ 4″.
    Khrushchev: 5′ 3″.
    Putin: 5′ 4″ (state secret, maybe less).

    Read More
    • Replies: @FKA Max

    Are all short men little Napoleons? It’s often said smaller men tend to be chippy and aggressive. But what’s the scientific evidence?

    Stalin was said to suffer from it, as did Mussolini and Attila the Hun. Some critics say it helps explain the behaviour of 5ft 5in former French president Nicolas Sarkozy.
    [...]
    Psychologist Dr Glenn Wilson says: ‘For every nasty little Napoleon or Hitler, there’s an equally nasty Saddam Hussein or Colonel Gaddafi who is tall. It’s easy to think of case examples but scientific evidence is very limited.’
    -------------
    My favorite is his explanation of Napoleon Bonaparte’s height. To ruin the story ever so slightly, it turns out that France has a history of special measurements, so the “French inch” used during Napoleon’s time differed from the English inch, making Napoleon average or even slightly above average for his time.
     
    - http://www.unz.com/jthompson/the-secret-in-your-eyes/#comment-1802675
    , @FKA Max
    I am wondering if maybe this surgical procedure was specifically developed in Russia, precisely because its leadership was so vertically challenged, as you pointed out, Mr. Caplan?


    A tall order
    It’s painful and slow, but can make you five inches taller. Jonathan Watts on the surgical trend sweeping China – leg-lengthening

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2003/dec/15/gender.uk

    Kong Jing-wen is one of a growing number of perfectly healthy Chinese young men and women who are willing to break a leg for beauty in order to rise up the ladder in height-conscious China. The complex and time-consuming procedure they are willing to endure was initially developed in Russia for people with stunted growth, mismatched legs or disfigurements. But these days the operation is increasingly used for cosmetic purposes.
    [...]
    Doctors have been able to pioneer new forms of this surgery because height is so socially important in China that it is often the first thing strangers will talk about. It is also listed among the criteria required on job advertisements. To get a post in the foreign ministry, for instance, male applicants need not bother applying unless they are at least 5ft 7in, while women must be at least 5ft 3in. Chinese diplomats are expected to be tall to match the height of their foreign counterparts.
     
    - http://www.unz.com/jthompson/iq-does-not-exist-lead-poisoning-aside/#comment-1833834
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  55. Sean says:
    @FKA Max
    And not to forget, Mark Zuckerberg (5 feet 7 inches) benefited from the Winkelvoss twins' intelligence/height (6 feet 5 inches) ;-)

    I actually went to boarding school with and rowed in the same rowing program as one of the Winkelvosses' Harvard crew-mates.

    Howard also has a connection to The Social Network, having won two NCAA championships in the Harvard eight with crew-mates Cameron and Tyler Winklevoss, the twin brothers who are portrayed in the movie as suing Facebook founder Mark Zuckerberg.
     
    - https://www.pressreader.com/canada/times-colonist/20130305/282273842787944

    He is taller than them (6 feet 6 inches) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malcolm_Howard_(rower)

    That height is nothing unusual for a native Dutchman now. Six foot ethno-Dutch women are ten a penny in the Netherlands.

    Read More
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  56. Sean says:
    @Steve Sailer
    I went to a conference once with Pinkerton, who is close to 6'10", and another pundit who is 6'8".

    The longer your legs (independent of height) the less likely you are to die of a heart attack. Long legs are probably a sign of good prenatal development. It is a sign of general good health in the cardiovascular domain. Tallness probably has something to do with testosterone, front, and confidence. Revilo Oliver was 6’5” remarkable for a man of his generation, William L. Pierce was 6’3” or 4”, both were professors as well as loathed far right commentators. Many comedians are seriously tall: Chevy Chase and Will Ferrell both 6’5”, as is Conan O’Brien. Albert Einstein (Brooks) the comedian is 5ft 10.25in. Jews tend to be a little shorter for the same intellectual qualities. Genuine self made men of action leaders like Naploeon, Gabriele D’Annunzio, Mussolini, Churchill (high born so not great example), Stalin and Hitler tend to be average height if not noticeably short.

    Bobby Fischer with a doubtless extremely high but difficult to quantify IQ is taller than I expected- a well built 6’1. Prodigy William James Sidis looks to have been a brawny six footer as is that bouncer fellow Christopher Langan, both have no unusual achievements . On the other hand, Norman Mailer big persona and moderate achievement, IQ of 170 it is said, was a small man. Paul Volker is probably the only one I can find with assumable very high IQ and awesome height (6 feet 7 inches). Volker is supposed to be half Jewish.

    From a quick look at photos, John Von Neuman was about 5′ 8” or so, Albert Einstein the physicist was 5’9, both respectable heights for Jewish men of that time. Richard Feyman has been estimated at a flat six foot. At the Everest of brainpower achievement (ie the common or garden Jewish geniuses) middling to tallish for their group seems to be the rule. but they is certainly no tendency for real giants, not by any standard

    All these people, especially the earlier born ones would be inches taller if born today AOTBE I suspect. Yes, a Flynn type effect, but no evidence that height will be equal across ethnicity, given a universally optimum growth environment for maximal tallness. Genes are still the most important factor.

    Read More
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  57. FKA Max says:
    @Mark Caplan
    Lenin: 5' 5".
    Stalin: 5' 4".
    Khrushchev: 5' 3".
    Putin: 5' 4" (state secret, maybe less).

    Are all short men little Napoleons? It’s often said smaller men tend to be chippy and aggressive. But what’s the scientific evidence?

    Stalin was said to suffer from it, as did Mussolini and Attila the Hun. Some critics say it helps explain the behaviour of 5ft 5in former French president Nicolas Sarkozy.
    [...]
    Psychologist Dr Glenn Wilson says: ‘For every nasty little Napoleon or Hitler, there’s an equally nasty Saddam Hussein or Colonel Gaddafi who is tall. It’s easy to think of case examples but scientific evidence is very limited.’
    ————-
    My favorite is his explanation of Napoleon Bonaparte’s height. To ruin the story ever so slightly, it turns out that France has a history of special measurements, so the “French inch” used during Napoleon’s time differed from the English inch, making Napoleon average or even slightly above average for his time.

    http://www.unz.com/jthompson/the-secret-in-your-eyes/#comment-1802675

    Read More
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  58. dearieme says:
    @Sean
    Twinkies!

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1164627/Children-love-sugar-faster-growth-rates.html

    In nature, sucrose is highly seasonal, even for orangutans in the tropical rain-forest (in winter orangutans are in ketosis from sugar restriction). Animals will gorge on sucrose containing food whenever they can get it. Calcium and protein in relatively moderate amounts are necessary for the building blocks, fat adds the caloric excess easily (milk gives you the lot check out https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_milk_consumption_per_capita the tall counties are salient). Given the availability the building blocks with caloric excess from fa, and then adding sugar produces an all out high growth rate mode (because you're in permanent summer).

    The Dutch are the tallest because they are north Europeans with a high proportion of Yamnaya ancestry and the Yamnaya genes confer a genetic potential for greater height, and given the aformentioned buiding blocks caloric excess and added boost from sugar the skys the limit.


    "In a typical year, the average Dutch person consumes more than 25% more milk-based products than their British, American or German counterparts.
     
    Moreover; http://www.iamexpat.nl/read-and-discuss/lifestyle/news/netherlands-among-worlds-most-sugar-and-fat-crazed-countries.

    “The Dutch are the tallest because they are north Europeans with a high proportion of Yamnaya ancestry”: then why weren’t they tall sixty years ago?

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  59. Maciano says:

    I’m Dutch, male, but not tall (175cm). The answer is clearly sexual selection.

    http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2015/04/did-natural-selection-make-dutch-tallest-people-planet

    The taller you are, the more girls you get; taller guys must have more children, because they marry younger and remarry easier. We all know height matter. But in the NL everyone’s already tall, so there’s even more selection for height.

    The dairy-hormone stuff has always been true, way before the 60s. So, that’s not it.

    We do have excellent neonatal care and child consultation bureaus where kids get checked for height & weight. And if kids deviate from the pattern, they will be monitored to get back to the pattern. So that must help somewhat.

    Environment must be part of the answer, though, because you can see the effect in Hindustani Surinamese & Moroccans; in NL they get tall, too. Much taller than in their ancestral countries.

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  60. FKA Max says:
    @FKA Max
    There is also Stedham Graham ( 6 feet 7 inches).

    I think Oprah might have quite and quietly benefited from his advice/intelligence/height.

    Tony Robbins is the same height, I believe, 6 feet 7 inches.

    "I was 5'1" my sophomore year in high school, and now I'm 6'7", you know. So I tell the people the difference is personal growth"

    I grew almost 10 inches my junior year, but I didn’t discover why until I was 31 and a doctor told me I had a tumor in my brain. That was a brutal day, a moment of humbling disbelief, anger and doubt. I’d been healthy as a horse but was told I had a rare disorder called acromegaly, which caused the excessive growth spurt in my teens. At six-foot-seven, with size 16 feet. - http://www.celebheights.com/s/Tony-Robbins-3030.html

    Dr. Phil 6 feet 4 inches.

    Oprah seems to have figured out, that it is a smart move to surround herself with tall guys.

    Personal Growth seems to be good for business ;-)

    Egalitarianism versus Reality

    In additional to the presumption of autonomy, there seems to be a certain egalitarian assumption underlying the demand for self-help: that the end result being sought is attainable to virtually all. Counters Valiunas: “Beauty, size, strength, health, energy, disposition, verbal or spatial or mathematical or emotional intelligence, ability in music or painting or oratory simply are not parceled out equally- and in any chosen activity, not even a single-minded devotion or expert training and wholesome diet can ensure that all will come out even in the end. Natural inequalities will always make for differences between one person and the next, and these differences will always be cause for unhappiness.” - http://brainblogger.com/2014/05/23/the-self-help-industry-helps-itself-to-billions-of-dollars/

    Oprah seems to have figured out, that it is a smart move to surround herself with tall guys.

    Napoleon surrounded himself with tall guys, as well. This indicates to me, that both him and Oprah were/are probably pretty self-confident personalities with a healthy/high self-esteem, because they don’t mind/fear to be physically/staturelly upstaged.

    Interestingly, there is evidence that Napoleon was already considered short at the time of his death, despite being above average height among his fellow Frenchman. This likely stems from the fact that his personal bodyguards were all very tall and broad; there being height requirements for his guard. So wherever he went, people saw him with his guards who were all much bigger than him and thus he looked small in comparison, earning him the nickname “Le Petit Caporel” or in English “The Little Corporal”, though in his day this was typically used as a term of affection for him and not as an insult.

    http://www.todayifoundout.com/index.php/2010/03/napolean-bonaparte-having-been-short-is-a-myth/

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  61. FKA Max says:
    @Mark Caplan
    Lenin: 5' 5".
    Stalin: 5' 4".
    Khrushchev: 5' 3".
    Putin: 5' 4" (state secret, maybe less).

    I am wondering if maybe this surgical procedure was specifically developed in Russia, precisely because its leadership was so vertically challenged, as you pointed out, Mr. Caplan?

    A tall order
    It’s painful and slow, but can make you five inches taller. Jonathan Watts on the surgical trend sweeping China – leg-lengthening

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2003/dec/15/gender.uk

    Kong Jing-wen is one of a growing number of perfectly healthy Chinese young men and women who are willing to break a leg for beauty in order to rise up the ladder in height-conscious China. The complex and time-consuming procedure they are willing to endure was initially developed in Russia for people with stunted growth, mismatched legs or disfigurements. But these days the operation is increasingly used for cosmetic purposes.
    [...]
    Doctors have been able to pioneer new forms of this surgery because height is so socially important in China that it is often the first thing strangers will talk about. It is also listed among the criteria required on job advertisements. To get a post in the foreign ministry, for instance, male applicants need not bother applying unless they are at least 5ft 7in, while women must be at least 5ft 3in. Chinese diplomats are expected to be tall to match the height of their foreign counterparts.

    http://www.unz.com/jthompson/iq-does-not-exist-lead-poisoning-aside/#comment-1833834

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  62. FKA Max says:
    @FKA Max
    As always great insights and information from you, sir.

    We had a pretty good discussion over in the other thread. Below a couple of excerpts from my comments, and at the end a dietary question for you. This is quite a long comment but worth reading, I believe. I tried to keep it as concise as possible:

    In fact, the Okinawan diet is now quiet Westernized and meat-heavy. Yet Okinawa still has the shortest average height in Japan, while the tallest people are concentrated in the northern prefectures.
     
    Iodine-rich seafood is, in my opinion, the food most conducive to boosting height and intelligence. Maybe the northern Japanese are still eating a more traditional seafood diet than the southern Japanese?:

    Saltwater fish and shellfish contain considerably more iodine than do freshwater species, and saltwater shellfish are the most iodine-rich of all seafood.

    Giving a very rough estimate, or average, saltwater fish has 330 micrograms of iodine per 100 grams of body weight, whereas freshwater fish has 66 mcg/g. [Two other foods are higher in iodine content than saltwater fish — dried kelp, with 62,400 mcg/g; and iodized salt, with 7,600 mcg/g.]
     
    - http://www.unz.com/jthompson/womens-brains/#comment-1851867

    What do you think about Bergmann's rule as another/additional explanation for why ``the tallest people are concentrated in the northern prefectures.'' ?


    “The more metabolically active the brain is, the more blood it requires, so the supply arteries are larger. The holes in fossil skulls are accurate gauges of arterial size.”
    [...]
    ”Smaller people have smaller arteries,” she said.
    [...]
    But you forgot to factor in Bergmann’s Rule in your analysis, which, in my opinion, would predict racial differences in IQ/intelligence caused by climate/temperature via bigger/wider arteries in taller/bigger human beings who live far away from the equator http://www.unz.com/gnxp/the-2000-year-selection-of-the-british/#comment-1415185 , which translates, as I stated above into “better-blood-supplied brains,” i.e., higher intelligence.
    [...]
    Cerebral blood flow during rest is associated with IQ and creativity.

    http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0025532
    [...]
    Resource availability thus becomes a modifying restraint on Bergmann’s Rule.
    [...]
    Some more on differences between men and women. I believe, that lower testosterone levels in women explains, why they are only slightly less intelligent than men on average, despite their on-average significantly shorter statures, etc. compared to men.
    [...]
    Like I said in an earlier comment on this thread, the most visible/obvious and reliable indicator and predictor for intelligence seems to be height
    [...]



    Because the correlation between IQ and height is only 0.2, seven foot men would on average be 0.2(139) = 28 IQ points smarter than five foot men.
    [...]
    The other key point is that when men and women are the same height, the woman has an HQ that is 32 points higher (since these HQ scores are assigned relative to gender). Since men and women differ enormously in height but are virtually identical in IQ, and since height and IQ correlate 0.2 within both genders, when a man and woman are the same height, the woman have an IQ that is 0.2(32) = 6 points higher. – https://brainsize.wordpress.com/2014/08/29/height-iq/
     
    - http://www.unz.com/jthompson/womens-brains/#comment-1850648

    You are correct people from Montenegro (population c. ~620,000) , Serbia ( ~7 million), and Croatia (~4.2 million) are an anomaly/outliers, and seem to be an exception to Bergmann’s Rule. But considering the size of that population (~16 million including Bosnia) compared to Germany (~80 million), Netherlands (~17 million), Scandinavia/Baltics (~25 million), etc., I believe the rule still generally holds. Plus you have large non-native, shorter populations living in countries like Germany, Sweden, Netherlands, which probably suppress the overall height average. Also people from the Balkans likely have higher testosterone levels than Northern Europeans on average and are lightly eye-pigmented less often
    [...]
    These are the characteristics I am looking for: height and low testosterone as indicators/proxies for intelligence; “Nordic” phenotype (light eye pigmentation) as an indicator/proxy for creativity and curiosity.
    [...]
    There are also differences between the heights of the different Nilotic peoples/tribes, plus the population of that group is not huge either; I am not exactly sure but I think it is maybe around 20 to 25 million(?), and again, their height is mostly due to their long limbs, so I am not sure their arteries would as big/wide as an equally tall, but bigger/heavier, Nordic person’s ones; which would explain their on average lower intelligence compared to Northern Europeans, despite their tallness
     
    - http://www.unz.com/jthompson/womens-brains/#comment-1851599

    Men’s Test Scores Linked to Hormone

    http://www.nytimes.com/1991/11/14/us/men-s-test-scores-linked-to-hormone.html
    [...]
    TESTOSTERONE LEVELS can affect performance on some tests [see boxes on opposite page for examples of tests]. Women with high levels of testosterone perform better on spatial tasks (top) than women with low levels do, but men with low levels outperform men with high levels. On a mathematical reasoning test (middle), low testosterone corresponds to better performance in men; in women there is no such relation. On a test of perceptual speed in which women usually excel (bottom), no relation is found between testosterone and performance.

    – see page 4 http://www.ucd.ie/artspgs/langimp/genderbrain.pdf
     
    - http://www.unz.com/jthompson/womens-brains/#comment-1851020

    Here is my dietary question for you now, how much does green tea affect testosterone levels in East Asian men do you think, and could this to some degree explain their mathematical aptitude compared to Westerners, and even more so compared to Africans, who seem to have the highest testosterone levels and sensitivity on average? Thank you.

    Comparative rates of androgen production and metabolism in Caucasian and Chinese subjects.

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9626146
    [...]
    Taken together, these studies suggest that environmental/dietary, but not genetic, factors influence androgen production and explain the differences between Caucasian and Chinese men.
    [...]
    This might be a possible explanation:

    Green Tea

    Research indicates that epigallocatechin-3-Gallate, or EGCG, one of the active constituents of green tea, also blocks the formation of DHT. A team of scientists from Harvard Medical School reported in the February 2003 issue of The Journal of Nutrition that green tea significantly reduced DHT and testosterone concentration in the blood.
    [...]
    First of all, most of the tea drunk in China is green tea, a much less processed tea than the standard black tea used in the West (which is often loaded with sugar and milk).
    [...]
    Whereas Westerners tend to have a cup of tea once or twice a day, using a different tea bag each time, the Chinese drink tea all day long.
     
    - http://www.unz.com/isteve/reforming-stuyvesant-hs-admissions-should-blacks-whites-team-up-against-asian-grinds/#comment-1813320

    I just wanted to add one little caveat. During a mass Australian IQ test back in 2002, the results actually showed, that the people in the 180cm-200cm height range had the highest average scores, whereas the more than 201cm tall group only came in third place.

    Height
    181-200cm – 113
    161-180cm – 110
    More than 201cm – 108
    141-160cm – 105
    Less than 140cm – 104
    [...]
    Test Australia: The National IQ Test

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Test_Australia:_The_National_IQ_Test

    http://www.unz.com/jthompson/isteve-metrics/#comment-1827416

    What this could indicate, is that beyond a certain height/weight it might be harder for the cardio-vascular system to keep up with properly supplying the brain, etc. with oxygen, nutrients, etc.

    This is just speculation on my part to possibly explain this unexpected result; but the result was not completely surprising to me personally, since I have some personal anecdotal evidence and experiences — by having spent much of my life around very tall people, both men and women — which somewhat confirm this result.
    One of my cousins is 202cm tall, and he is the nicest person you could ever meet, truly the stereotypical “Gentle Giant.” But I always felt, that he was somewhat “slow,” meaning, that he seemed to have longer reaction times than me on average it seemed, etc. I have experienced the same with other very tall persons. They seem to be lacking in the hand-eye coordination department as well, i.e., think Shaq O’Neal and his challenge with free throws. Slower reaction times and challenges with hand-eye coordination could be due to and a proxy/indicator of slower neural processing speeds.

    Shooting Ability and Size

    In NBA, majority of players have height between 6-6 and 6-9. Best shooting height size is 6-3 with the average free throw % of .827 and the worst is 6-11 with .671. Just note that, for our analysis, the height categories below 6-0 and over 7-0 are unreliable statistically as they covered so few players. For 7-2 size, there are only two players (with at least 10 FTA in the season) who are Roy Hibbert and Alexis Ajinca. Both of them surprisingly are very good free throw shooters. The following table and graph depict that as height increases, the FT% decreases.
    [...] For weight, majority of players are between 211-250 lbs. The negative effect of weight on FT% is clearly visible. Best shooting weight is 161-180 lbs. range and the worst is 261-270.[...] So, this time we did the partial correlation analysis, and we looked the relationship of two variables while controlling the effect of other. While controlling the height; weight and free throw percentages are again negatively correlated at %99 significance level. But on the other hand, while controlling the effect of weight; height and FT % are not correlated at all! Hence, it seems we discovered something meaningful here, which is, the shooting ability (or hand-eye coordination) is mainly affected with weight rather than height.
    [...] To conclude, we applied the identical procedure this time while selecting same weight players, we split the data according to their height and compared their FT% averages. As it is seen the table below, although longer guys have lower FT% average (.6740), this is not significantly lower than the shorter guys (.7099) statistically (sig. value > 0.05).
    All these analysis prove an important finding: the shooting ability is negatively affected by weight but not with height.

    http://www.nbaminer.com/shooting-ability-and-size/

    My “Gentle Giant” cousin has a very large frame and was/is somewhat on the heavier side weight-wise, but not terribly so.

    I still believe that the ”cognitive ability sweet spot” could be somewhere in the 180cm-200cm height range, probably more towards the upper boundary of that height range, maybe in the 190cm-196cm region(?), provided these tall persons are not overweight, plus having below average testosterone for males will additionally boost cognitive ability/mental clarity/rationality: http://www.unz.com/jthompson/isteve-metrics/#comment-1823832

    The Australian mass IQ test also found that grey-haired persons scored among the highest, which could suggest/prove, again, that lower testosterone due to progressing age, at least up to a certain age, is beneficial to cognitive functioning:

    Hair colour
    Red – 111
    Grey – 111
    Brown – 111
    Blonde – 109
    Black – 109
    Bald – 108

    Read More
    • Replies: @FKA Max
    I just found a study that could potentially support my hypothesis. They only tested males up to a height of 179cm, though, or maybe they tested taller subjects, but those were outperformed by the 175-179cm group(?), in which case my hypothesis would be invalid. I could only find the ``Abstract'' to this study, so I am not aware/sure of its exact setup, methods and cohort. This study was conducted in China/Asia, I believe, so the 175-179cm group might have been the tallest group in their study, but maybe not?

    Male and female students were divided into four single-sex groups based on their heights (each group had a 5-cm range), and the average scores for each performance indicator were analyzed.

    My hypothesis is, that I predict that motor coordination/skills as a proxy for intelligence would increase with height possibly all the way to maybe 196cm in males -- but maybe it is shorter(?) -- and then decrease after that with increasing height. Possibly the ``cognitive ability sweet spot'' is somewhere in the 185cm to 195cm range, or even lower, possibly in the 175cm to 179cm range?

    The most important takeaway form this study, though, for me was: ``counter to the traditional belief that shorter people have better coordination.''

    Effect of height on motor coordination in college students participating in a dancesport program.
    Li X et al. (2015) https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25743602

    RESULTS: A one-way ANOVA revealed significant differences in performance scores for each indicator of basic skills and double routine skills between the different height groups. Male in the 175-179 cm group and female students in the 165-169 cm group had the best performance scores on each indicator, while the shortest students had the worst performance scores.
    CONCLUSION: The height of students participating in sport dancing training had an impact on dancesport performance and motor coordination, counter to the traditional belief that shorter people have better coordination.
     
    Motor Coordination Correlates with Academic Achievement and Cognitive Function in Children
    Valter R. Fernandes et al. (2016) https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4792186/

    Tall People Have Slower Reflexes

    I’d like to point out though that these are just trends, and everybody is different. Furthermore, the differences in reaction times are small and likely imperceptible. As a 6′7″ male, I would in theory have a 22% slower than average reaction time. Have I ever noticed this? Certainly not. One thing I have noticed is lesser coordination, which is thought to diminish with reflexes4.
     
    - https://tall.life/tall-people-have-slower-reflexes/
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  63. anon says: • Disclaimer
    @Tacitus
    My old mum grew up on a dairy farm in Northern NSW. Quite strangely they eschewed milk. My mum and her sisters, now in their 70's, were 5'11 and 6'0 in their day. Meat and 3 veg. every dinner, very paleo diet, they grew everything on the farm. My nephew born in Australia 1994 is 6'4, my oldest boy will be about the same height.

    My uncle's mum was a teen girl when the Americans arrived in Brisbane during WW2. His biological father a US soldier he never met. He tracked down his father's family back in the 90's but they didn't want to talk to him.

    Mum said they laughed at the idea of drinking milk, but her father made plenty of money out of it while the Yanks were in Rockhampton. They also insisted on pasteurisation, so there must have been a fair bit of infrastructure built around it, and milk drinking took off with the locals after the Yanks left.

    Read More
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  64. Twinkie says:
    @FKA Max
    As always great insights and information from you, sir.

    We had a pretty good discussion over in the other thread. Below a couple of excerpts from my comments, and at the end a dietary question for you. This is quite a long comment but worth reading, I believe. I tried to keep it as concise as possible:

    In fact, the Okinawan diet is now quiet Westernized and meat-heavy. Yet Okinawa still has the shortest average height in Japan, while the tallest people are concentrated in the northern prefectures.
     
    Iodine-rich seafood is, in my opinion, the food most conducive to boosting height and intelligence. Maybe the northern Japanese are still eating a more traditional seafood diet than the southern Japanese?:

    Saltwater fish and shellfish contain considerably more iodine than do freshwater species, and saltwater shellfish are the most iodine-rich of all seafood.

    Giving a very rough estimate, or average, saltwater fish has 330 micrograms of iodine per 100 grams of body weight, whereas freshwater fish has 66 mcg/g. [Two other foods are higher in iodine content than saltwater fish — dried kelp, with 62,400 mcg/g; and iodized salt, with 7,600 mcg/g.]
     
    - http://www.unz.com/jthompson/womens-brains/#comment-1851867

    What do you think about Bergmann's rule as another/additional explanation for why ``the tallest people are concentrated in the northern prefectures.'' ?


    “The more metabolically active the brain is, the more blood it requires, so the supply arteries are larger. The holes in fossil skulls are accurate gauges of arterial size.”
    [...]
    ”Smaller people have smaller arteries,” she said.
    [...]
    But you forgot to factor in Bergmann’s Rule in your analysis, which, in my opinion, would predict racial differences in IQ/intelligence caused by climate/temperature via bigger/wider arteries in taller/bigger human beings who live far away from the equator http://www.unz.com/gnxp/the-2000-year-selection-of-the-british/#comment-1415185 , which translates, as I stated above into “better-blood-supplied brains,” i.e., higher intelligence.
    [...]
    Cerebral blood flow during rest is associated with IQ and creativity.

    http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0025532
    [...]
    Resource availability thus becomes a modifying restraint on Bergmann’s Rule.
    [...]
    Some more on differences between men and women. I believe, that lower testosterone levels in women explains, why they are only slightly less intelligent than men on average, despite their on-average significantly shorter statures, etc. compared to men.
    [...]
    Like I said in an earlier comment on this thread, the most visible/obvious and reliable indicator and predictor for intelligence seems to be height
    [...]



    Because the correlation between IQ and height is only 0.2, seven foot men would on average be 0.2(139) = 28 IQ points smarter than five foot men.
    [...]
    The other key point is that when men and women are the same height, the woman has an HQ that is 32 points higher (since these HQ scores are assigned relative to gender). Since men and women differ enormously in height but are virtually identical in IQ, and since height and IQ correlate 0.2 within both genders, when a man and woman are the same height, the woman have an IQ that is 0.2(32) = 6 points higher. – https://brainsize.wordpress.com/2014/08/29/height-iq/
     
    - http://www.unz.com/jthompson/womens-brains/#comment-1850648

    You are correct people from Montenegro (population c. ~620,000) , Serbia ( ~7 million), and Croatia (~4.2 million) are an anomaly/outliers, and seem to be an exception to Bergmann’s Rule. But considering the size of that population (~16 million including Bosnia) compared to Germany (~80 million), Netherlands (~17 million), Scandinavia/Baltics (~25 million), etc., I believe the rule still generally holds. Plus you have large non-native, shorter populations living in countries like Germany, Sweden, Netherlands, which probably suppress the overall height average. Also people from the Balkans likely have higher testosterone levels than Northern Europeans on average and are lightly eye-pigmented less often
    [...]
    These are the characteristics I am looking for: height and low testosterone as indicators/proxies for intelligence; “Nordic” phenotype (light eye pigmentation) as an indicator/proxy for creativity and curiosity.
    [...]
    There are also differences between the heights of the different Nilotic peoples/tribes, plus the population of that group is not huge either; I am not exactly sure but I think it is maybe around 20 to 25 million(?), and again, their height is mostly due to their long limbs, so I am not sure their arteries would as big/wide as an equally tall, but bigger/heavier, Nordic person’s ones; which would explain their on average lower intelligence compared to Northern Europeans, despite their tallness
     
    - http://www.unz.com/jthompson/womens-brains/#comment-1851599

    Men’s Test Scores Linked to Hormone

    http://www.nytimes.com/1991/11/14/us/men-s-test-scores-linked-to-hormone.html
    [...]
    TESTOSTERONE LEVELS can affect performance on some tests [see boxes on opposite page for examples of tests]. Women with high levels of testosterone perform better on spatial tasks (top) than women with low levels do, but men with low levels outperform men with high levels. On a mathematical reasoning test (middle), low testosterone corresponds to better performance in men; in women there is no such relation. On a test of perceptual speed in which women usually excel (bottom), no relation is found between testosterone and performance.

    – see page 4 http://www.ucd.ie/artspgs/langimp/genderbrain.pdf
     
    - http://www.unz.com/jthompson/womens-brains/#comment-1851020

    Here is my dietary question for you now, how much does green tea affect testosterone levels in East Asian men do you think, and could this to some degree explain their mathematical aptitude compared to Westerners, and even more so compared to Africans, who seem to have the highest testosterone levels and sensitivity on average? Thank you.

    Comparative rates of androgen production and metabolism in Caucasian and Chinese subjects.

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9626146
    [...]
    Taken together, these studies suggest that environmental/dietary, but not genetic, factors influence androgen production and explain the differences between Caucasian and Chinese men.
    [...]
    This might be a possible explanation:

    Green Tea

    Research indicates that epigallocatechin-3-Gallate, or EGCG, one of the active constituents of green tea, also blocks the formation of DHT. A team of scientists from Harvard Medical School reported in the February 2003 issue of The Journal of Nutrition that green tea significantly reduced DHT and testosterone concentration in the blood.
    [...]
    First of all, most of the tea drunk in China is green tea, a much less processed tea than the standard black tea used in the West (which is often loaded with sugar and milk).
    [...]
    Whereas Westerners tend to have a cup of tea once or twice a day, using a different tea bag each time, the Chinese drink tea all day long.
     
    - http://www.unz.com/isteve/reforming-stuyvesant-hs-admissions-should-blacks-whites-team-up-against-asian-grinds/#comment-1813320

    Here is my dietary question for you now, how much does green tea affect testosterone levels in East Asian men do you think, and could this to some degree explain their mathematical aptitude compared to Westerners, and even more so compared to Africans, who seem to have the highest testosterone levels and sensitivity on average? Thank you.

    This is above my pay grade, so to speak, but I doubt green tea has much to do with Asian mathematical aptitude. South Koreans hardly drink any green tea (they are inveterate coffee drinkers).

    I would imagine tofu consumption probably has more to do with lowering testosterone than green tea consumption does.

    Read More
    • Replies: @FKA Max
    Thanks so much for both your comments! It is highly appreciated!

    You might find this summary of interest:

    Differences in reproductive endocrinology between Asian men and Caucasian men a literature review

    M.E. van Houten, Louis J.G. Gooren (2000)

    http://www.asiaandro.com/archive/1008-682X/2/13.htm

    Possible explanations for these observations may be due to differences in genetically and/or environmentally determined levels of peripheral testosterone metabolism. Not surprisingly, it has been difficult to disentangle the genetic factors from environmental factors. A potential role has been attributed to dietary factors such as higher intake of phytoestrogens in Asians. These might affect 5-reductase levels and/or SHBG levels, thus having an impact on the biological efficacy of circulating androgens. Furthermore levels of physical and sexual activity may also be significant for the observed differences in reproductive endocrinology between Asian and Caucasian men.
     
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  65. Twinkie says:
    @FKA Max
    There is also this, which could explain the greater average height in Hokkaido prefecture et al. I don't know, however, how often/extensively the Japanese intermarried with the Ainu people of Hokkaido. This could, again, be a confirmation of Bergmann's and Allen's rules:

    Besides the political controversy of the plight of the Ainu people, they have also raised other debates within anthropology and hominology. One such debate is that of the very origins and history of this people. Ainu are very different in physical appearance than ethnic Japanese and other Asian peoples. Taller than average Japanese, the Ainu typically have a long skull, light complexion, heavy facial hair, and Caucasian features. Their hair tends to be thick and wavy, and body hair is also more pronounced. Aside from the physical differences, the Ainu language is also quite unique, showing no relation to Japanese or other Asian languages. These unique differences have posed an often debated mystery. Who are the Ainu and where did they come from?
     
    - http://cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/ainu/

    because these “Arctic Mongoloids” have similar features in accordance with Allen’s rule: a narrow nasal passage, relatively large heads, long to round heads, large jaws, relatively large bodies, and short limbs.
     
    - http://www.unz.com/jthompson/womens-brains/#comment-1850648

    Tests of ecogeographical relationships in a non-native species: what rules avian morphology?

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26936361

    Patterns of variation in body mass and bill surface area were consistent with Bergmann’s and Allen’s rules, respectively (small body size and larger bill size in warmer climates), with maximum summer temperature being a strongly weighted predictor of both variables.
     
    - http://www.unz.com/jthompson/womens-brains/#comment-1851599

    Some more interesting information on the intelligence and testosterone link:


    By the age of 19, 80% of US males and 75% of women have lost their virginity, and 87% of college students have had sex. But this number appears to be much lower at elite (i.e. more intelligent) colleges. According to the article, only 56% of Princeton undergraduates have had intercourse. At Harvard 59% of the undergraduates are non-virgins, and at MIT, only a slight majority, 51%, have had intercourse. Further, only 65% of MIT graduate students have had sex.
    [...]
    James Watson even hinted at this in a recent Esquire magazine piece:

    If I had been married earlier in life, I wouldn't have seen the double helix. I would have been taking care of the kids on Saturday. On the other hand, I was lonely a lot of the time.
    [...]
    So intelligent people have lower libidos and less masculine physiques. What hormone is responsible for both sex drive and masculine builds? That's right: testosterone.

     

    - http://www.gnxp.com/blog/2007/04/intercourse-and-intelligence.php

    Real Genius (1/8) Movie CLIP - All Brain, No Penis (1985) HD

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SN7sOR35KCg

    Caucasian features

    They don’t. It’s a giant myth that the Ainu were some sort of an Aryan remnant in Asia whose intermarriage with the “Mongoloid” Japanese made the latter more European/Western than other Asians.

    It was a faulty theory proposed by early 20th Century Europeans who were perplexed by the stunning rise of the Japanese military capability (e.g. the Russo-Japanese War).

    Who are the Ainu and where did they come from?

    They are the descendants of the Emishi, a proto-Mongoloid people indigenous to eastern Siberia, Sakhalin, and northern Japan.

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  66. FKA Max says:
    @FKA Max
    I just wanted to add one little caveat. During a mass Australian IQ test back in 2002, the results actually showed, that the people in the 180cm-200cm height range had the highest average scores, whereas the more than 201cm tall group only came in third place.

    Height
    181-200cm – 113
    161-180cm – 110
    More than 201cm – 108
    141-160cm – 105
    Less than 140cm – 104
    [...]
    Test Australia: The National IQ Test

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Test_Australia:_The_National_IQ_Test
     
    - http://www.unz.com/jthompson/isteve-metrics/#comment-1827416

    What this could indicate, is that beyond a certain height/weight it might be harder for the cardio-vascular system to keep up with properly supplying the brain, etc. with oxygen, nutrients, etc.

    This is just speculation on my part to possibly explain this unexpected result; but the result was not completely surprising to me personally, since I have some personal anecdotal evidence and experiences -- by having spent much of my life around very tall people, both men and women -- which somewhat confirm this result.
    One of my cousins is 202cm tall, and he is the nicest person you could ever meet, truly the stereotypical ``Gentle Giant.'' But I always felt, that he was somewhat ``slow,'' meaning, that he seemed to have longer reaction times than me on average it seemed, etc. I have experienced the same with other very tall persons. They seem to be lacking in the hand-eye coordination department as well, i.e., think Shaq O'Neal and his challenge with free throws. Slower reaction times and challenges with hand-eye coordination could be due to and a proxy/indicator of slower neural processing speeds.

    Shooting Ability and Size

    In NBA, majority of players have height between 6-6 and 6-9. Best shooting height size is 6-3 with the average free throw % of .827 and the worst is 6-11 with .671. Just note that, for our analysis, the height categories below 6-0 and over 7-0 are unreliable statistically as they covered so few players. For 7-2 size, there are only two players (with at least 10 FTA in the season) who are Roy Hibbert and Alexis Ajinca. Both of them surprisingly are very good free throw shooters. The following table and graph depict that as height increases, the FT% decreases.
    [...] For weight, majority of players are between 211-250 lbs. The negative effect of weight on FT% is clearly visible. Best shooting weight is 161-180 lbs. range and the worst is 261-270.[...] So, this time we did the partial correlation analysis, and we looked the relationship of two variables while controlling the effect of other. While controlling the height; weight and free throw percentages are again negatively correlated at %99 significance level. But on the other hand, while controlling the effect of weight; height and FT % are not correlated at all! Hence, it seems we discovered something meaningful here, which is, the shooting ability (or hand-eye coordination) is mainly affected with weight rather than height.
    [...] To conclude, we applied the identical procedure this time while selecting same weight players, we split the data according to their height and compared their FT% averages. As it is seen the table below, although longer guys have lower FT% average (.6740), this is not significantly lower than the shorter guys (.7099) statistically (sig. value > 0.05).
    All these analysis prove an important finding: the shooting ability is negatively affected by weight but not with height.
     
    - http://www.nbaminer.com/shooting-ability-and-size/

    My ``Gentle Giant'' cousin has a very large frame and was/is somewhat on the heavier side weight-wise, but not terribly so.

    I still believe that the ''cognitive ability sweet spot'' could be somewhere in the 180cm-200cm height range, probably more towards the upper boundary of that height range, maybe in the 190cm-196cm region(?), provided these tall persons are not overweight, plus having below average testosterone for males will additionally boost cognitive ability/mental clarity/rationality: http://www.unz.com/jthompson/isteve-metrics/#comment-1823832

    The Australian mass IQ test also found that grey-haired persons scored among the highest, which could suggest/prove, again, that lower testosterone due to progressing age, at least up to a certain age, is beneficial to cognitive functioning:

    Hair colour
    Red – 111
    Grey – 111
    Brown – 111
    Blonde – 109
    Black – 109
    Bald – 108
     

    I just found a study that could potentially support my hypothesis. They only tested males up to a height of 179cm, though, or maybe they tested taller subjects, but those were outperformed by the 175-179cm group(?), in which case my hypothesis would be invalid. I could only find the “Abstract” to this study, so I am not aware/sure of its exact setup, methods and cohort. This study was conducted in China/Asia, I believe, so the 175-179cm group might have been the tallest group in their study, but maybe not?

    Male and female students were divided into four single-sex groups based on their heights (each group had a 5-cm range), and the average scores for each performance indicator were analyzed.

    My hypothesis is, that I predict that motor coordination/skills as a proxy for intelligence would increase with height possibly all the way to maybe 196cm in males — but maybe it is shorter(?) — and then decrease after that with increasing height. Possibly the “cognitive ability sweet spot” is somewhere in the 185cm to 195cm range, or even lower, possibly in the 175cm to 179cm range?

    The most important takeaway form this study, though, for me was: “counter to the traditional belief that shorter people have better coordination.

    Effect of height on motor coordination in college students participating in a dancesport program.
    Li X et al. (2015) https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25743602

    RESULTS: A one-way ANOVA revealed significant differences in performance scores for each indicator of basic skills and double routine skills between the different height groups. Male in the 175-179 cm group and female students in the 165-169 cm group had the best performance scores on each indicator, while the shortest students had the worst performance scores.
    CONCLUSION: The height of students participating in sport dancing training had an impact on dancesport performance and motor coordination, counter to the traditional belief that shorter people have better coordination.

    Motor Coordination Correlates with Academic Achievement and Cognitive Function in Children
    Valter R. Fernandes et al. (2016) https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4792186/

    Tall People Have Slower Reflexes

    I’d like to point out though that these are just trends, and everybody is different. Furthermore, the differences in reaction times are small and likely imperceptible. As a 6′7″ male, I would in theory have a 22% slower than average reaction time. Have I ever noticed this? Certainly not. One thing I have noticed is lesser coordination, which is thought to diminish with reflexes4.

    https://tall.life/tall-people-have-slower-reflexes/

    Read More
    • Replies: @FKA Max
    I had a look at another sport, baseball, and the average height of the Top 25 starting pitchers from 2011 through the 2013 season was 75.96 inches or 192.93cm. Source: https://thebaseballhaven.wordpress.com/tag/how-height-impacts-pitching/

    Of those 25 pitchers eight were taller than 196cm, and seven pitchers were shorter than 190cm.

    Of the Top 5 pitchers one was taller than 196cm, and none were shorter than 190cm.

    Of the Top 10 pitchers three were taller than 196cm, and one was shorter than 190cm.

    Of the Top 15 pitchers four were taller than 196cm, and three were shorter than 190cm.

    Of the Top 20 pitchers seven were taller than 196cm, and four were shorter than 190cm.

    Of the last 5 pitchers one was taller than 196cm, and three were shorter than 190cm.

    Ranks 1-5: 4 pitchers are between 190cm-196cm; taller than 196cm one; shorter than 190cm none

    Ranks 6-10: 2 pitchers are between 190cm-196cm; taller than 196cm two; shorter than 190cm one

    Ranks 11-15: 2 pitchers are between 190cm-196cm; taller than 196cm one; shorter than 190cm two

    Ranks 16-20: 1 pitcher is between 190cm-196cm; taller than 196cm three; shorter than 190cm one

    Ranks 21-25: 1 pitcher is between 190cm-196cm; taller than 196cm one; shorter than 190cm three

    If we assume now, which is reasonable to do, in my opinion, that elite baseball pitching requires peak hand-eye coordination and motor skills, it would seem that my hypothesis, that:

    I still believe that the``cognitive ability sweet spot” could be somewhere in the 180cm-200cm height range, probably more towards the upper boundary of that height range, maybe in the 190cm-196cm region(?),
     
    - http://www.unz.com/isteve/the-flynn-effect-for-height/#comment-1855060

    is confirmed by this data.
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  67. FKA Max says:
    @Twinkie

    Here is my dietary question for you now, how much does green tea affect testosterone levels in East Asian men do you think, and could this to some degree explain their mathematical aptitude compared to Westerners, and even more so compared to Africans, who seem to have the highest testosterone levels and sensitivity on average? Thank you.
     
    This is above my pay grade, so to speak, but I doubt green tea has much to do with Asian mathematical aptitude. South Koreans hardly drink any green tea (they are inveterate coffee drinkers).

    I would imagine tofu consumption probably has more to do with lowering testosterone than green tea consumption does.

    Thanks so much for both your comments! It is highly appreciated!

    You might find this summary of interest:

    Differences in reproductive endocrinology between Asian men and Caucasian men a literature review

    M.E. van Houten, Louis J.G. Gooren (2000)

    http://www.asiaandro.com/archive/1008-682X/2/13.htm

    Possible explanations for these observations may be due to differences in genetically and/or environmentally determined levels of peripheral testosterone metabolism. Not surprisingly, it has been difficult to disentangle the genetic factors from environmental factors. A potential role has been attributed to dietary factors such as higher intake of phytoestrogens in Asians. These might affect 5-reductase levels and/or SHBG levels, thus having an impact on the biological efficacy of circulating androgens. Furthermore levels of physical and sexual activity may also be significant for the observed differences in reproductive endocrinology between Asian and Caucasian men.

    Read More
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  68. sb says:
    @Steve Sailer
    Yugoslavians tend to be tall: ex-Yugoslavian countries do well in Olympic team sports favoring height like basketball, volleyball, and water polo.

    I agree
    Athletes of former Yugoslavian ancestry -particularly Croatian -are quite conspicuous in many sports in Australia

    Read More
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  69. sb says:
    @dearieme
    (i) When I was a boy nobody thought Dutchmen particularly tall by NW European standards. (That was consistent with the few Dutchmen I met.) But since then they seem to have leapt up. I've never heard a plausible explanation. There's no point saying they enjoy cheese and milk at breakfast - they always have, as far as I know.

    (ii) When we lived in Oz the men seemed no taller than the men we were used to in Britain. The Oz women were noticeably taller than British women though.

    (iii) Have racial changes been properly accounted for in these figures? I mean, if a country receives short/tall immigrants and their children are short/tall too, has this effect been subtracted so that there are figures for the indigenous population? If not the figures for many countries would hopelessly confound different effects.

    I think that the data from both world wars showed that Australian servicemen were significantly taller than their UK counterparts .

    Not so much difference these days as the British diet has considerably improved since WW2

    When I was young it was a widely held view in Australia that the different classes in England looked very different ( chiefly by height and teeth ) . Whereas in Australia you had to wait for people to open their mouth to speak before you could start classifying them

    Read More
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  70. @MikeTB
    I read the rapid increase in height in Japan post WWII was from the introduction of beef into the Japanese diet.

    unfortunately the introduction of beef in Japan seems to have lead to a rise of colorectal cancer

    Read More
    • Replies: @Twinkie

    unfortunately the introduction of beef in Japan seems to have lead to a rise of colorectal cancer
     
    And breast cancer. And prostate cancer.

    Traditionally, East Asians have had much higher rates of stomach cancer and far fewer instances of these three types of cancers than Westerners. That has changed over the past 30-40 years. It's been difficult, however, to tie the causation to more Western diets.
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  71. @Michelle
    A lot of Japanese people, due to cultural influences, are pretty uptight about food. Koreans eat a lot of beef, whilst many Japanese and Chinese people are actually afraid of beef, despite Oyster Sauce Beef and the Kobe Beef fetish. My Chinese-American friend claims that beef gives her a stomach ache. I think it makes me smell funny, so I eat it but rarely, no pun intended!

    It seems to me, that beef or the hormones we give the beeves is the seat of all growth and fertility and that those who consume beeves are selected for in every aspect of physical superiority. Mental, maybe, not so much!

    I have a Chinese co-worker, who, despite being a lesbian, has, due to family pressure, married a man and has been unable to become pregnant due to the fact that she cannot bring herself to eat protein, other than the salted duck eggs that rest in the middle of the Chinese tamales she eats every day for lunch. I have other Asian co-workers who eat McDonald's every day and they are huge. Girls 6ft tall. I bet they'd get pregnant if they sat on a toilet seat after a guy did.

    My Chinese supervisor is super picky about food, hates beef and most meat and had to undergo lots of fertility treatments in order to have one son. When she travels to China, she is so afraid of the food, she only eats rice made with bottled water.

    A Japanese co-worker, who was a strict vegetarian and used to offer us lots of advice on food consumption, just died of pancreatic cancer. Another Chinese co-worker, around 20, 5'10, and grossly obese, eats a full McDonald's lunch every day, with 2 apple pies as chasers, then eats her homemade Chinese lunch a half hour later, because she thinks it unhealthy to not eat the Chinese food. Somehow she thinks it counteracts the McDonald's. This drives me nuts!

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zongzi

    Your comments are always unique and entertaining.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Michelle
    Gosh, Daniel, thank you, I know that I am weird and I always feel out of sync with most people and commenters. I have had a very unusual upbringing in Oakland, California and I can sense the differences. I am glad that someone finds my comments, at least, slightly interesting.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  72. FKA Max says:
    @FKA Max
    I just found a study that could potentially support my hypothesis. They only tested males up to a height of 179cm, though, or maybe they tested taller subjects, but those were outperformed by the 175-179cm group(?), in which case my hypothesis would be invalid. I could only find the ``Abstract'' to this study, so I am not aware/sure of its exact setup, methods and cohort. This study was conducted in China/Asia, I believe, so the 175-179cm group might have been the tallest group in their study, but maybe not?

    Male and female students were divided into four single-sex groups based on their heights (each group had a 5-cm range), and the average scores for each performance indicator were analyzed.

    My hypothesis is, that I predict that motor coordination/skills as a proxy for intelligence would increase with height possibly all the way to maybe 196cm in males -- but maybe it is shorter(?) -- and then decrease after that with increasing height. Possibly the ``cognitive ability sweet spot'' is somewhere in the 185cm to 195cm range, or even lower, possibly in the 175cm to 179cm range?

    The most important takeaway form this study, though, for me was: ``counter to the traditional belief that shorter people have better coordination.''

    Effect of height on motor coordination in college students participating in a dancesport program.
    Li X et al. (2015) https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25743602

    RESULTS: A one-way ANOVA revealed significant differences in performance scores for each indicator of basic skills and double routine skills between the different height groups. Male in the 175-179 cm group and female students in the 165-169 cm group had the best performance scores on each indicator, while the shortest students had the worst performance scores.
    CONCLUSION: The height of students participating in sport dancing training had an impact on dancesport performance and motor coordination, counter to the traditional belief that shorter people have better coordination.
     
    Motor Coordination Correlates with Academic Achievement and Cognitive Function in Children
    Valter R. Fernandes et al. (2016) https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4792186/

    Tall People Have Slower Reflexes

    I’d like to point out though that these are just trends, and everybody is different. Furthermore, the differences in reaction times are small and likely imperceptible. As a 6′7″ male, I would in theory have a 22% slower than average reaction time. Have I ever noticed this? Certainly not. One thing I have noticed is lesser coordination, which is thought to diminish with reflexes4.
     
    - https://tall.life/tall-people-have-slower-reflexes/

    I had a look at another sport, baseball, and the average height of the Top 25 starting pitchers from 2011 through the 2013 season was 75.96 inches or 192.93cm. Source: https://thebaseballhaven.wordpress.com/tag/how-height-impacts-pitching/

    Of those 25 pitchers eight were taller than 196cm, and seven pitchers were shorter than 190cm.

    Of the Top 5 pitchers one was taller than 196cm, and none were shorter than 190cm.

    Of the Top 10 pitchers three were taller than 196cm, and one was shorter than 190cm.

    Of the Top 15 pitchers four were taller than 196cm, and three were shorter than 190cm.

    Of the Top 20 pitchers seven were taller than 196cm, and four were shorter than 190cm.

    Of the last 5 pitchers one was taller than 196cm, and three were shorter than 190cm.

    Ranks 1-5: 4 pitchers are between 190cm-196cm; taller than 196cm one; shorter than 190cm none

    Ranks 6-10: 2 pitchers are between 190cm-196cm; taller than 196cm two; shorter than 190cm one

    Ranks 11-15: 2 pitchers are between 190cm-196cm; taller than 196cm one; shorter than 190cm two

    Ranks 16-20: 1 pitcher is between 190cm-196cm; taller than 196cm three; shorter than 190cm one

    Ranks 21-25: 1 pitcher is between 190cm-196cm; taller than 196cm one; shorter than 190cm three

    If we assume now, which is reasonable to do, in my opinion, that elite baseball pitching requires peak hand-eye coordination and motor skills, it would seem that my hypothesis, that:

    I still believe that the“cognitive ability sweet spot” could be somewhere in the 180cm-200cm height range, probably more towards the upper boundary of that height range, maybe in the 190cm-196cm region(?),

    http://www.unz.com/isteve/the-flynn-effect-for-height/#comment-1855060

    is confirmed by this data.

    Read More
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  73. Twinkie says:
    @Erik Sieven
    unfortunately the introduction of beef in Japan seems to have lead to a rise of colorectal cancer

    unfortunately the introduction of beef in Japan seems to have lead to a rise of colorectal cancer

    And breast cancer. And prostate cancer.

    Traditionally, East Asians have had much higher rates of stomach cancer and far fewer instances of these three types of cancers than Westerners. That has changed over the past 30-40 years. It’s been difficult, however, to tie the causation to more Western diets.

    Read More
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  74. Michelle says:
    @Daniel Chieh
    Your comments are always unique and entertaining.

    Gosh, Daniel, thank you, I know that I am weird and I always feel out of sync with most people and commenters. I have had a very unusual upbringing in Oakland, California and I can sense the differences. I am glad that someone finds my comments, at least, slightly interesting.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments

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