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Why are mass “suicidal” shootings (where the gunman doesn’t try to get away so he can finish off the wounded, at the expense of being killed or imprisoned himself) still rare but much more common than before the “I Don’t Like Mondays” school shooting 40 years ago?

My guess: declining fear of Hell.

To sleep, perchance to dream—ay, there’s the rub:
For in that sleep of death what dreams may come,
When we have shuffled off this mortal coil,
Must give us pause—there’s the respect
That makes calamity of so long life.
… Who would fardels bear,
To grunt and sweat under a weary life,
But that the dread of something after death,
The undiscovere’d country, from whose bourn
No traveller returns, puzzles the will,
And makes us rather bear those ills we have
Than fly to others that we know not of?

Update: Here’s some brand new evidence for my theory, which I came up with a few years ago:

https://mobile.twitter.com/HeavySan/status/1158122203419959297

 
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  1. Connor Betts probably did plan to get away. He wore mask and body armor, and even had hearing protection. Chances are he didnt realize that there were cops nearby.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Doubtful. Had already whacked his sister, dont need to be dick tracy to figure this one out.
    Best guess is hed been tossed from that bar by the zealous bouncers.
    , @Glaivester
    Mask and body armor do not necessarily translate to "wanted to get away." Might mean "wanted to go for as long as possible before getting killed."
    , @mikeInThe716
    The hearing protection angle is interesting. The few times I've fired a long gun without hearing protection were notably stunning. But I don't recall if my hearing was temporarily impaired enough to not hear a blind side approach. Especially with multiple rounds fired from an AR or AK. (I was in the army infantry 88-92)

    Is a shooter with such a rifle more susceptible to a blind side tackle with or without ear protection? Is contemplating such a thing 99% suicidal? 50%?
  2. My guess is a lot of people have been pushed to the brink in recent years, and while there they looked long into the abyss.

    • Replies: @AnotherDad
    Lack of fear of hell is a part but just one thread. The entire garment is the breakdown of connection and purpose. Modernity, prosperity, science were always going to be a challenge to manage--modernity really needs to be accompanied with eugenics--but the atomization has amplified through the roof by the destruction of minoritarianism.

    Tight tribal communities can survive because they cultivate their own social world for their members. Think Orthodox Jews or the Amish or the Mormons. Not perfection, and certainly doesn't work for all their members, but ... they've got something. But the minoritarian wrecking ball has smashed up the operation of normal majority community going about its busiess in its culture--as it was very much intended to.

    What does a typical white gentile boy face? Anomie.
    -- Their culture which is supposed to be the common culture ... is common no more.
    -- Christianity is no longer normative--is under assault as a public cultural force--and may not be in their life at all.
    -- Their race, the heritage their inherited under constant assualt--nothing to be proud of, but rather something they are supposed to apologize for.
    -- Their labor is surplus. Even if they are smart, the "nation of immigrants" people think some Indian or Chinese is entitled to their job--studying in the universities, with the technology, in the companies their ancestors built. And if they are not so smart ... a Mexican can provide muscle cheaper with less lip.
    -- His own family may well be a mess--perhaps just because of his parents genes, but the likelyhood jacked up by feminism, easy divorce, and the nation's social and cultural breakdown.
    -- Their women--the girls they should marry and have families with ... are theirs no more. The girls are you-go-girling on their own jobs. They are taught by Hollyweird, the schools, the whole culture to be sluts, and if a boy doesn't have alpha skills ... they aren't slutting with him. Even if he's solid enough to have a good job ... he gets shitty slut 2nds. If he's un/under-employed exposed to the world labor market or he's just socially awkward ... forget about it.

    Basically America is no longer a nation with a people and culture he is part of. America is just a market place for the "global cosmopolitans" to exploit. And his market value in that market place is ... loser!

    F' y'all. Bang, bang, bang.
  3. My guess: declining fear of Hell.

    Spot on as usual, Mr. Sailer. Spot on.

    • Replies: @pyrrhus
    Certainly there are a large number of atheists involved in these abominations...
    , @Russ
    Benjamin F. Morris in 1868 wrote The Christian Life and Character of the Civil Institutions of the United States. Well nigh time that this work again received serious study. The last sixty years have been an exercise in divorcing Christianity from American life. If nothing more, the reasonably catechized Christian (fearing the loss of heaven and the pains of hell) kept himself in line, thus freeing the state in large part from having to do so. No more ... not in the 21st-century USA which was Christian and is now X-ian (but of course not X-ish). So now we'll have to endure again those who gave us that "X" lecturing "prayers aren't enough!" Wearisome.
    , @NYMOM
    Exactly people "losing religion" has lead to a lot of bad behavior.

    However even very religious people have been known to commit great acts of evil. I mean when you look back at the history of wars many have been provoked by religious differences. Or maybe it was really these so called ethnic differences that were at the heart of them. Not sure...

    I guess mankind has an aversion to 'difference' and when it becomes too much, reacts. Kind of like lions killing off cubs that aren't theirs or something like that. Primal reaction or some such.
    , @TWS
    So many of these are atheists or some variety of that. I think it's almost a requirement that you believe there's no punishment for your actions after your dead to commit atrocities like this.
    , @CrunchybutRealistCon
    Yeah, some are lost in a cloud of nihilism: no fears of hell or punishment but also few role models or unifying traditions.
    Suppose The Boomtown Rats' "I don't like Mondays" captures this somewhat, but that perp seemed more clearly broken, like a fuse blew out, while the El Paso perp seemed a tad more self aware, at least if the manifesto is confirmed to be his.

    Sometimes when I read unz.com, with the Blue & White scholarly layout, dispensing very intense analyses, leavened with an air of detachment, it can feel a bit surreal. The sky is falling, but we have time for careful edits & side dishes of irony.
    This Peter Murphy song & video is sort of the feel - gloomy but addictive:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UrfFHzqGBZI
  4. As I said on twitter, I disagree. I think the nationalization of media, which started roughly 50 years ago and has only increased the pace in the past 10-20 years, is what did it. Add to that the increase in forensic technology, making serial killing harder and harder to pull off.

    So the warped people group 1 who think killing people is desirable, will have little ability to kill a bunch of them unless they do a mass shooting. Then the warped people group 2, the people haters, the basically suicidal, the ones who want to be noticed, get more attention thanks to the media.

    But fear of hell? No way. Understand these are people who are almost certainly killing people because they want to be known after death. Would they want that if they didn’t somewhere, underneath the conscious, believe in afterlife so they could enjoy it?

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Very few urban shooting homicides are ever solved
    Police speculate several in chi have killed ten or more before ultimately getting dropped or imprisoned on other charges.
    , @Russ

    But fear of hell? No way. Understand these are people who are almost certainly killing people because they want to be known after death.
     
    There have been so many of these incidents that you can scarcely tell one from another anymore, just as you can scarcely tell one astronaut from another anymore (save that none are in the Armstrong/Aldrin class). These shooters are too intellectually decrepit to understand that there is no real fame to be had from the act any longer, and too morally decrepit to fathom eternal consequences for such dire acts. The decrepitude does not discriminate.
    , @Art Deco
    The nationalization of the media began during the period running from 1909 to 1940. (1) Motion pictures became extraordinarily popular (2) the production and distribution of motion pictures came to be dominated by just eight commercial corporations, (3) radio broadcasting also grew extraordinarily popular, and (4) radio stations coast-to-coast were organized into networks run by three commercial companies. You had local media, of course, but they were getting consequential content from one of five wire services. You also had the advent of mass circulation news magazines (Time, U.S. News, News-Week, and Life), though magazines per se were not a novelty.
    , @El Dato

    I think the nationalization of media, which started roughly 50 years ago and has only increased the pace in the past 10-20 year
     
    "Nationalization"??

    WTF are you talking about.

    This is not France in the 70s.

    Most of the media are the gimp of hateful special interests and the people in this outfits have a lack of ethics that deserves punishment before God, but that's not "nationalization".
    , @TWS
    Motivations for spree and serial killers are almost always unrelated. You're comparing apples and orangutans.
  5. Anonymous[175] • Disclaimer says:

    There is also the little-known fact that most of the school shootings are committed by teens who were on or who recently stopped taking anti-depressants. SSRIs can cause homicidal or suicidal behavior, especially in teens.

    • Agree: Robert Dolan
    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    Just as it's important to know the wage history of an immigrant criminal, it's important to know the pharmacological history of a homicidal lunatic.
    , @Mr. Anon
    I've heard SSRIs referred to as "don't-give-a-f**k" pills. Perhaps they suppress your depression by making you just not give a damn.
    , @Hypnotoad666

    SSRIs can cause homicidal or suicidal behavior
     
    At this point, almost everyone in America who doesn't feel "right" is already on some kind of SSRI. So I'm not sure that factor is terribly predictive.

    If SSRIs made people homicidal, the whole country would be dead by now.
    , @alt right moderate
    The majority of people taking SSRIs are women. Are white females becoming a lot more homocidal?
    , @LondonBob
    America is the only country that mass medicates their young, despite the fact the chemistry of the brain is little understood and that being moody is a phase for most teenagers that they will grow out of.
    , @Kevin O'Keeffe

    There is also the little-known fact that most of the school shootings are committed by teens who were on or who recently stopped taking anti-depressants. SSRIs can cause homicidal or suicidal behavior, especially in teens.
     
    I strongly suspect that's true, but calling it a "fact" may be premature. Do we have any actual evidence for that? It seems true, I'll grant, and I suspect it probably is. But some actual evidence would be helpful.
  6. According to Reformed theology, which extrapolates from Augustine’s speculation about predestination, every single one of us goes to hell by default, unless a god intervenes to send us to the other holding pen which has the better conditions. And our actions in this life have nothing to do with god’s decision.

    • Replies: @Jake
    which is the reason that Reformed theology produces both large numbers of atheists - in reaction against it - and amoral monsters who believe that they are Elect no matter what they do.
    , @Anonymous

    According to Reformed theology, which extrapolates from Augustine’s speculation about predestination, every single one of us goes to hell by default, unless a god intervenes to send us to the other holding pen which has the better conditions. And our actions in this life have nothing to do with god’s decision.
     
    The ghastly idea of reprobation. A good example of why you should never subscribe to a religion founded by a French lawyer.
    , @FPD72
    You make two inaccurate generalizations:

    First, many Reformed theologians hold to Supralapsarianism, which places the decrees of salvation and reprobation prior to the decree of the fall (I’m writing of logical, not temporal order) which means that the elect were never destined to Hell, according to those who hold this doctrine. I really can’t say what percentage of the Reformed hold this view, although it seems to me that it is falling into disfavor.

    Second, it’s true that Reformed theologians believe that our actions are not the basis for God’s election to salvation; this is what is meant by Unconditional Election, that God chose in eternity past those whom He would save, apart from foreseen faith or obedience. But it is inaccurate to say that our actions in this life have nothing to do with God’s decision. The actions of the elect, after they are regenerated and brought to faith in Christ, are the result of God’s election. As Paul wrote in Ephesians 2:10, “For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, that we should walk in them.”

    So according to those who are Reformed, while God elects sinners to save unconditionally, those whom He saves are saved UNTO good works, although NOT BY good works.

    The Last True Calvinist may want to jump into this discussion. It’s my understanding that many Dutch Reformed used to be Supralapsarians.

  7. Anonymous[337] • Disclaimer says:
    @Prosa123
    Connor Betts probably did plan to get away. He wore mask and body armor, and even had hearing protection. Chances are he didnt realize that there were cops nearby.

    Doubtful. Had already whacked his sister, dont need to be dick tracy to figure this one out.
    Best guess is hed been tossed from that bar by the zealous bouncers.

  8. Anonymous[337] • Disclaimer says:
    @education realist
    As I said on twitter, I disagree. I think the nationalization of media, which started roughly 50 years ago and has only increased the pace in the past 10-20 years, is what did it. Add to that the increase in forensic technology, making serial killing harder and harder to pull off.

    So the warped people group 1 who think killing people is desirable, will have little ability to kill a bunch of them unless they do a mass shooting. Then the warped people group 2, the people haters, the basically suicidal, the ones who want to be noticed, get more attention thanks to the media.

    But fear of hell? No way. Understand these are people who are almost certainly killing people because they want to be known after death. Would they want that if they didn't somewhere, underneath the conscious, believe in afterlife so they could enjoy it?

    Very few urban shooting homicides are ever solved
    Police speculate several in chi have killed ten or more before ultimately getting dropped or imprisoned on other charges.

    • Replies: @advancedatheist

    Very few urban shooting homicides are ever solved
     
    So much for the trope in detective fiction that it takes an unusually intelligent criminal mastermind to commit the perfect murder, outwit the cops and escape unpunished. Plenty of dumbass urban blacks commit these perfect murders every year.
    , @Art Deco
    Very few urban shooting homicides are ever solved

    Clearance rate's about 90% outside the slums and about 30% inside the slums.
    , @education realist
    Right, urban shooting homicides are just like serial killing.
  9. @education realist
    As I said on twitter, I disagree. I think the nationalization of media, which started roughly 50 years ago and has only increased the pace in the past 10-20 years, is what did it. Add to that the increase in forensic technology, making serial killing harder and harder to pull off.

    So the warped people group 1 who think killing people is desirable, will have little ability to kill a bunch of them unless they do a mass shooting. Then the warped people group 2, the people haters, the basically suicidal, the ones who want to be noticed, get more attention thanks to the media.

    But fear of hell? No way. Understand these are people who are almost certainly killing people because they want to be known after death. Would they want that if they didn't somewhere, underneath the conscious, believe in afterlife so they could enjoy it?

    But fear of hell? No way. Understand these are people who are almost certainly killing people because they want to be known after death.

    There have been so many of these incidents that you can scarcely tell one from another anymore, just as you can scarcely tell one astronaut from another anymore (save that none are in the Armstrong/Aldrin class). These shooters are too intellectually decrepit to understand that there is no real fame to be had from the act any longer, and too morally decrepit to fathom eternal consequences for such dire acts. The decrepitude does not discriminate.

    • Replies: @PiltdownMan

    There have been so many of these incidents that you can scarcely tell one from another anymore
     
    School shootings have being going on for a long time—Wikipedia's list goes back to 1840—but mass school shootings are a development from recent times. Here's a rather old-timey sounding incident from the 1850s, from that database. Presumably, everyone involved feared Hell, but didn't care.


    August 16, 1856 Florence, Alabama The schoolmaster warned students not to harm his tame sparrow, threatening death. One of the boys stepped on the bird and killed it. When the boy returned to school, the master took the boy into a private room and strangled him. The boy's father upon hearing what had happened went to the school and shot the schoolmaster dead.

     

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_school_shootings_in_the_United_States
    , @bomag

    there is no real fame to be had from the act any longer
     
    I'd say plenty; and people will do a lot for a little scrap of fame.

    Much of this coincides with modern media; notice a recent shooter streamed the event.

    And humans have always had a penchant for massacre.
  10. @Anonymous
    Very few urban shooting homicides are ever solved
    Police speculate several in chi have killed ten or more before ultimately getting dropped or imprisoned on other charges.

    Very few urban shooting homicides are ever solved

    So much for the trope in detective fiction that it takes an unusually intelligent criminal mastermind to commit the perfect murder, outwit the cops and escape unpunished. Plenty of dumbass urban blacks commit these perfect murders every year.

    • Replies: @Mr McKenna

    Plenty of dumbass urban blacks commit these perfect murders every year.
     
    Well, they're greatly aided by the wrecked society they inhabit, where 'no-snitch' is but one of their many advantages. Perfect is probably not a word I'd use in this connection.
    , @Russ

    Plenty of dumbass urban blacks ...
     
    are feral, what with three quarters sired out of wedlock. Their situation has degenerated to the point of wildlife management. One recalls the drug sale discussion in Godfather I: "They're animals anyway; let them lose their souls." The legacy of the US government in those rapturous 1960s withholding welfare if the man was in the home, concurrent of course with the "separation of church and state" beginnings.
    , @Ancient Briton
    True, but they are hardly Agatha Christie worthy.
    , @Rapparee

    [A mystery novelist] thinks a complicated murder scheme which baffles the lazy reader, who won’t be bothered itemizing the details, will also baffle the police, whose business is with details. The boys with their feet on the desks know that the easiest murder case in the world to break is the one somebody tried to get very cute with; the one that really bothers them is the murder somebody only thought of two minutes before he pulled it off.
     
    -Raymond Chandler, "The Simple Art of Murder", (1950)
  11. “My guess: declining fear of Hell.”

    Where’s Billy Graham when you need him? If he can’t put the fear into someone, then who can?

  12. @Anonymous
    There is also the little-known fact that most of the school shootings are committed by teens who were on or who recently stopped taking anti-depressants. SSRIs can cause homicidal or suicidal behavior, especially in teens.

    Just as it’s important to know the wage history of an immigrant criminal, it’s important to know the pharmacological history of a homicidal lunatic.

  13. In the light of modern science we can no longer imagine the mechanism of hell (or heaven) as things that might be experienced when we die. I suggest we look to modern neuroscience: to the way that the potentials for these kinds of emotional experiences (horror on the one side, a beatific vision on the other, for instance) are stored as electrostatic (is that the right word?) potentials in the cells of our brains. Why does the news of the death of a loved one affect us so much more deeply than of someone we do not know for instance? Because the potential for that experience has been created and somehow stored in our brain. Likewise for the feelings of guilt and many other negative (as well as positive) emotions: they are all stored as potentials like the charge on a capacitor, and when the brain disintegrates all remaining potentials are released. Or something along those lines.

    • Replies: @Anonymous

    In the light of modern science we can no longer imagine the mechanism of hell (or heaven) as things that might be experienced when we die. I suggest we look to modern neuroscience
     
    Hmmm...

    The Washington Post

    By Julie Zauzmer
    March 3, 2017

    Why a Yale neuroscientist decided to change careers — and is now becoming a priest

    ...He said he used to feel like the only one in the lab who believed in God — until he started seeing Yale professors filling the same pews he sat in at Mass. His work studying neurons led him to marvel all the more at God’s handiwork: “The complexity and yet the order in which things work in our body and in our brain, it makes you think there’s more than just randomness.”

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/acts-of-faith/wp/2017/03/03/why-a-yale-neuroscientist-decided-to-change-careers-and-is-now-becoming-a-priest/?noredirect=on&utm_campaign=buffer&utm_content=buffer74de0&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_term=.278be3e2ee31
     

  14. @education realist
    As I said on twitter, I disagree. I think the nationalization of media, which started roughly 50 years ago and has only increased the pace in the past 10-20 years, is what did it. Add to that the increase in forensic technology, making serial killing harder and harder to pull off.

    So the warped people group 1 who think killing people is desirable, will have little ability to kill a bunch of them unless they do a mass shooting. Then the warped people group 2, the people haters, the basically suicidal, the ones who want to be noticed, get more attention thanks to the media.

    But fear of hell? No way. Understand these are people who are almost certainly killing people because they want to be known after death. Would they want that if they didn't somewhere, underneath the conscious, believe in afterlife so they could enjoy it?

    The nationalization of the media began during the period running from 1909 to 1940. (1) Motion pictures became extraordinarily popular (2) the production and distribution of motion pictures came to be dominated by just eight commercial corporations, (3) radio broadcasting also grew extraordinarily popular, and (4) radio stations coast-to-coast were organized into networks run by three commercial companies. You had local media, of course, but they were getting consequential content from one of five wire services. You also had the advent of mass circulation news magazines (Time, U.S. News, News-Week, and Life), though magazines per se were not a novelty.

    • Replies: @education realist
    I'm well aware of what was going on between 1909 and 1940, but that was entertainment media. News media wasn't really nationalized until television. I should have been precise.
  15. Get ready for nonstop shrieks of White Nationalist Violence! every time you turn on the idiot box (or click the official ‘news’ links).

    Now we’re about to pay the price for allowing the Deep State to vigorously pretend black violence doesn’t exist, and to have stood by meekly as they spent decades sweeping it all into a dustbin marked “teens”.

    • Replies: @Mr McKenna

    Get ready for nonstop shrieks of White Nationalist Violence! every time you turn on the idiot box (or click the official ‘news’ links).
     
    It's all about who controls The Narrative; no more and no less. Were a 'different' group in power, the same outrages could readily be explained as the result of failing to secure our nation's borders. Poor misguided (but ultimately comprehensible) citizen overwhelmed with frustration at his country's failure to take the most basic steps necessary to maintain its own health. It's all about who controls The Narrative; no more and no less.
    , @Dissident

    Now we’re about to pay the price for allowing the Deep State to vigorously pretend black violence doesn’t exist, and to have stood by meekly as they spent decades sweeping it all into a dustbin marked “teens”.
     
    Don't forget youths.

    Who isn't sympathetic and favorably inclined toward youths?
  16. @Anonymous
    Very few urban shooting homicides are ever solved
    Police speculate several in chi have killed ten or more before ultimately getting dropped or imprisoned on other charges.

    Very few urban shooting homicides are ever solved

    Clearance rate’s about 90% outside the slums and about 30% inside the slums.

    • Replies: @Chris Mallory
    Outside the slums murders are usually between family members or "significant others". Unless they are mentally ill whites usually don't go for the random violence.
  17. Well, after reading this…

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/i-am-an-uppity-immigrant-dont-expect-me-to-be-grateful/2019/08/02/321d9b60-b483-11e9-951e-de024209545d_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.fce84e4a4901

    I think another theory might be the World According to Shylock. I edited it for brevity, but the reader will get the point about what seems pointless…

    “To bait fish withal. If it will feed nothing else, it will feed my revenge.

    He hath disgraced me and hindered me half a million, laughed at my losses, mocked at my gains, scorned my nation, thwarted my bargains, cooled my friends, heated mine enemies—and what’s his reason?

    Why, revenge. The villainy you teach me I will execute—and it shall go hard but I will better the instruction.”

    Participating in unchecked diversity for its own sake is a socially poisonous premise that must necessarily create passionate resistance, since its historically been proven to be antithetical to human nature, every time it’s been tried.

    See WWI, and WWII: the fiery human forest fire powered by forced artificially accelerated diversity.

    Conclusion: you cannot make Human Nature conform to wishful thinking. To progress, wishful thinking must conform to Human Nature.

    The latter created Disneyland. The former created the cannibalism in the Ukraine.

  18. @Russ

    But fear of hell? No way. Understand these are people who are almost certainly killing people because they want to be known after death.
     
    There have been so many of these incidents that you can scarcely tell one from another anymore, just as you can scarcely tell one astronaut from another anymore (save that none are in the Armstrong/Aldrin class). These shooters are too intellectually decrepit to understand that there is no real fame to be had from the act any longer, and too morally decrepit to fathom eternal consequences for such dire acts. The decrepitude does not discriminate.

    There have been so many of these incidents that you can scarcely tell one from another anymore

    School shootings have being going on for a long time—Wikipedia’s list goes back to 1840—but mass school shootings are a development from recent times. Here’s a rather old-timey sounding incident from the 1850s, from that database. Presumably, everyone involved feared Hell, but didn’t care.


    August 16, 1856 Florence, Alabama The schoolmaster warned students not to harm his tame sparrow, threatening death. One of the boys stepped on the bird and killed it. When the boy returned to school, the master took the boy into a private room and strangled him. The boy’s father upon hearing what had happened went to the school and shot the schoolmaster dead.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_school_shootings_in_the_United_States

    • Replies: @Sam Haysom
    This undermines your point. Notice how neither of the men then went on the murder various other bystanders. They killed he who had enraged them and then ceased. How you can equate that the yesterday’s violence boggles the mind. Or really it doesn’t. You are clearly someone who wishes violently there was no hell but can’t escape your own callow sense of dread.
  19. Hail says: • Website

    Neil DeGrasse Tyson on mass shootings:

    Neil DeGrasse Tyson
    @neiltyson

    In the past 48hrs, the USA horrifically lost 34 people to mass shootings.

    On average, across any 48hrs, we also lose…

    500 to Medical errors
    300 to the Flu
    250 to Suicide
    200 to Car Accidents
    40 to Homicide via Handgun

    Often our emotions respond more to spectacle than to data.

    • Replies: @South Texas Guy
    Geez! I hate to agree with Tyson, but it's true. Stalin's observation about tragedies and statistics made a similar point.

    Also, Ed Realist:

    But fear of hell? No way.
     
    I agree. Kind of a warped morality, maybe a deluded view of religion, or something. Serial killers happened before the mid-60s, but that's when they really started popping up, all the way to say, the late 80's, then it kind of petered out (not to say there aren't any active or potential ones now). With spree killers, there were notable exceptions, but for the most part, we're looking from '90 on to today.

    So I truly believe this particular aspect is societal. But then again, some really, really horrific crimes were committed by arson and bombs in the first half of the 20th Century. They are kind of lost down the memory hole, which I think is mostly good, because instead of taking out 20 in a whack, you could do the Cocaunut Louge (or whatever it was), or several of the crazies that killed dozens with bombs.

    Wanting to act out but not knowing how? I don't know. It always puzzled me that (if what I've read in the media is correct, I know, ha ha) Tim McVeigh didn't act out against the people he supposedly hated, but instead, killed a bunch who were likely at least somewhat sypathetic to his surface leave-me-alone government views.
    , @Dan Hayes
    Hail:

    So contrary to Tyson's previous public persona. He has just beaten the sex charges. But this PC transgression will be much harder to beat.
  20. It looks white conservatives kill almost t of people

    Now do you folks understand why demographic change is necessary?

    • Replies: @Swede55
    t?
    , @Kronos
    Common Tiny, your better than this. This online community takes proper spelling and grammar very seriously. Bad writing hinders your message. Who’s going to take you seriously on the perils of white power if you spell white as “wite?”

    We believe in you Tiny, so here’s a motivational video to get your spirits up.

    https://youtu.be/ZtQeTs8NfIE
    , @Redneck farmer
    So, Tiny, are you inferring non-whites aren't people? Bad Duck, bad!
  21. @Art Deco
    The nationalization of the media began during the period running from 1909 to 1940. (1) Motion pictures became extraordinarily popular (2) the production and distribution of motion pictures came to be dominated by just eight commercial corporations, (3) radio broadcasting also grew extraordinarily popular, and (4) radio stations coast-to-coast were organized into networks run by three commercial companies. You had local media, of course, but they were getting consequential content from one of five wire services. You also had the advent of mass circulation news magazines (Time, U.S. News, News-Week, and Life), though magazines per se were not a novelty.

    I’m well aware of what was going on between 1909 and 1940, but that was entertainment media. News media wasn’t really nationalized until television. I should have been precise.

    • Replies: @Counterinsurgency
    You might be interested in:
    Wolfgang Schivelbusch.
    _Three New Deals_.
    Metropolitan Books, 2006.
    Schivelbusch discusses parallels between the US, Germany, and Italy. He discusses the radical change in their form of government after 1929, and follows it until the start of WW II. This is apparently a quite well established form of academic inquiry (or was in 2009), and Schivelbusch appears to have written a survey book for non-academics.

    Among other things, Schivelbusch discusses control of radio and the printed media. He points out that contemporaries (US and German) considered US radio and printed media to be under effective government control in the US, and cites laws that, for example, required re-licensing of US radio stations every six months, and required prior submission of the text of "public affairs" broadcast prior to their broadcast. He also points out that, in most cases, the radio networks actually anticipated the government, apparently to "maintain good relations". Newspapers were a deal less cooperative, but also less influential.

    This is not another "America is Nazi Germany" book. Schivelbusch's comparisons at least seem to be quite well documented, and he points out that FDR's power was a good deal more circumscribed than Hitler's or Mussolini's, but was similar in that all three were charismatic leaders excluded form the ruling establishment of their nations prior to 1929. He implies that the programs of all three failed in their own terms, and the US program was rescued only after victory in 1945. This "failed new deal" idea was fairly widespread during the 1950s and 1960s.

    And, of course, the 2009 book does not include the material from Suvorov's works (e.g. _The Chief Culprit_), and so leaves out Stalin's influence on Hitler's career.

    Counterinsurgency
    , @anonymous
    No moron he's talking about the news media too before 1940.
  22. @advancedatheist

    Very few urban shooting homicides are ever solved
     
    So much for the trope in detective fiction that it takes an unusually intelligent criminal mastermind to commit the perfect murder, outwit the cops and escape unpunished. Plenty of dumbass urban blacks commit these perfect murders every year.

    Plenty of dumbass urban blacks commit these perfect murders every year.

    Well, they’re greatly aided by the wrecked society they inhabit, where ‘no-snitch’ is but one of their many advantages. Perfect is probably not a word I’d use in this connection.

  23. @advancedatheist
    According to Reformed theology, which extrapolates from Augustine's speculation about predestination, every single one of us goes to hell by default, unless a god intervenes to send us to the other holding pen which has the better conditions. And our actions in this life have nothing to do with god's decision.

    which is the reason that Reformed theology produces both large numbers of atheists – in reaction against it – and amoral monsters who believe that they are Elect no matter what they do.

    • Agree: BB753
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    The best and the worst Christians I know seem to be Reformed in their theology. The middle of the roaders are all Arminian Baptists/nondenominational, non Latin Mass Catholics, or SDA.

    Trad Catholics, Mormons and whatnot are too busy to cause much trouble for others but I know few of them on anything but a very casual basis.
    , @BB753
    And entitled and self-righteous assholes!
    , @TWS
    Yup.
  24. @Ragno
    Get ready for nonstop shrieks of White Nationalist Violence! every time you turn on the idiot box (or click the official 'news' links).

    Now we're about to pay the price for allowing the Deep State to vigorously pretend black violence doesn't exist, and to have stood by meekly as they spent decades sweeping it all into a dustbin marked "teens".

    Get ready for nonstop shrieks of White Nationalist Violence! every time you turn on the idiot box (or click the official ‘news’ links).

    It’s all about who controls The Narrative; no more and no less. Were a ‘different’ group in power, the same outrages could readily be explained as the result of failing to secure our nation’s borders. Poor misguided (but ultimately comprehensible) citizen overwhelmed with frustration at his country’s failure to take the most basic steps necessary to maintain its own health. It’s all about who controls The Narrative; no more and no less.

    • Agree: LondonBob
  25. Anonymous[233] • Disclaimer says:

    Kevin Smith on Joe Rogan’s podcast: “Death is not to be feared.” Clip:

    • Replies: @Mr. Anon
    I understand the point you are likely making, but I can't bring myself to listen to Kevin Smith for any length of time. A grown man who always wears a hockey jersey and a cap on backwards? He looks like a stupid twat. I can only assume he is one.
  26. Insouciance at the prospect of hellfire may have been a condition for the recent shootings, but if the perps had been able to repose their existential agitation upon the pieties of girlfriends, that might have eased some tension. The prince of Denmark spoke, in concluding his soliloquy, Nymph, in thy orisons be all my sins remembered.

    Why was he asking her to pray for him? Why didn’t he pray for himself?

    Some might deplore the privileged handoff, but at least he didn’t go down and tear up the tavern.

    • Replies: @Dissident

    but if the perps had been able to repose their existential agitation upon the pieties of girlfriends, that might have eased some tension.
     
    Perhaps. Or perhaps such girlfriends would become victims of said perps' antisocial impulses and orientation.

    An awful lot of people throughout the world are disgruntled, lonely and frustrated. What percentage of them commit acts of violence?

  27. @Tiny Duck
    It looks white conservatives kill almost t of people

    Now do you folks understand why demographic change is necessary?

    t?

  28. @Bubba

    My guess: declining fear of Hell.
     
    Spot on as usual, Mr. Sailer. Spot on.

    Certainly there are a large number of atheists involved in these abominations…

  29. Anon[136] • Disclaimer says:

    Hell is making a comeback. Neal Stephenson’s latest novel, Fall; or Dodge in Hell: A Novel is hellacious, and not just because the title contains a semicolon. He constructs a world where everyone arranges to get his brain scanned after death and then ends up in a giant simulation from which it is difficult to escape.

  30. Anonymous[427] • Disclaimer says:
    @Jake
    which is the reason that Reformed theology produces both large numbers of atheists - in reaction against it - and amoral monsters who believe that they are Elect no matter what they do.

    The best and the worst Christians I know seem to be Reformed in their theology. The middle of the roaders are all Arminian Baptists/nondenominational, non Latin Mass Catholics, or SDA.

    Trad Catholics, Mormons and whatnot are too busy to cause much trouble for others but I know few of them on anything but a very casual basis.

    • Replies: @Old Palo Altan
    I'm a Trad Catholic and I've never been busy in my entire life.

    "Busy-ness" is a Protestant thing.
  31. @Hail
    Neil DeGrasse Tyson on mass shootings:

    https://twitter.com/neiltyson/status/1158074774297468928

    Neil DeGrasse Tyson
    @neiltyson

    In the past 48hrs, the USA horrifically lost 34 people to mass shootings.

    On average, across any 48hrs, we also lose…

    500 to Medical errors
    300 to the Flu
    250 to Suicide
    200 to Car Accidents
    40 to Homicide via Handgun

    Often our emotions respond more to spectacle than to data.
     

    Geez! I hate to agree with Tyson, but it’s true. Stalin’s observation about tragedies and statistics made a similar point.

    Also, Ed Realist:

    But fear of hell? No way.

    I agree. Kind of a warped morality, maybe a deluded view of religion, or something. Serial killers happened before the mid-60s, but that’s when they really started popping up, all the way to say, the late 80’s, then it kind of petered out (not to say there aren’t any active or potential ones now). With spree killers, there were notable exceptions, but for the most part, we’re looking from ’90 on to today.

    So I truly believe this particular aspect is societal. But then again, some really, really horrific crimes were committed by arson and bombs in the first half of the 20th Century. They are kind of lost down the memory hole, which I think is mostly good, because instead of taking out 20 in a whack, you could do the Cocaunut Louge (or whatever it was), or several of the crazies that killed dozens with bombs.

    Wanting to act out but not knowing how? I don’t know. It always puzzled me that (if what I’ve read in the media is correct, I know, ha ha) Tim McVeigh didn’t act out against the people he supposedly hated, but instead, killed a bunch who were likely at least somewhat sypathetic to his surface leave-me-alone government views.

  32. Yes, and he was evidently heavy into wearing Satanist imagery at least and probably was a Satanist.
    Also he mused about taking Adderall to kill fascists better (?) If he was a Satanist and had their philosophy of “Do what thou will” (and maybe was a bit twisted in regards to his sister) that is similar to the Gilroy shooter who referenced the old book, “Might is Right” which Satanists cherish as a guidebook. Anton le Vay of the Satanic Church heavily borrowed from it when writing his infamous Satanic Bible.
    https://vdare.com/posts/dayton-shooter-reportedly-another-antifa-terrorist-not-white-supremacist?scroll_to_paragraph=1

  33. I think the Woodman summed it up nicely:” I want to achieve immortality through not dying.”

  34. This is disingenuous. There’s no need to guess at motivation, the El Paso shooter outlined his motivations very clearly. He said that he hates Hispanics and wants to end immigration into Texas. Apparently the mall he attacked was a popular shopping destination for Mexican tourists. The Dayton shooter was nominally a Democrat but I suspect he blew a fuse for the same reason. He had never learned a marketable skill by the age of 24, he worked at chipotle, and he took some worthless community college courses. He knew he was a worthless POS, and the megaphone constantly tells him he is. He offed his sister and the boyfriend first although I think the boyfriend actually survived. Most of the dead are African American which is telling. In 2019 young white men are committing mass terrorism. Many of them have no criminal records so this won’t be solved with a tough on crime approach. These antisocial kids should be in the military, and we need to put microchips in guns.

    • Replies: @Ed
    Exactly. Trump won in part due to former Democrats. Being a registered Democrat is nearly automatic for under 30 year olds it doesn’t signify much by itself.

    However the Dayton killer was active online and was immersed in liberal politics. His twitter has just been deleted but he liked tweets about El Paso right before his killing. So his affiliation with the left can’t be dismissed.
    , @Anon
    I saw posts indicating his parents were hardcore lefties.
    , @Counterinsurgency

    He had never learned a marketable skill by the age of 24, he worked at chipotle, and he took some worthless community college courses. He knew he was a worthless POS, and the megaphone constantly tells him he is.
     

    we need to put microchips in guns.
     
    Think about the above.
    1) The American establishment has gone to considerable lengths to ensure that young men have vastly diminished chance to get a job.
    2) The answer is to disarm them.

    What's part 3? Kill them?

    Counterinsurgency
  35. @Prosa123
    Connor Betts probably did plan to get away. He wore mask and body armor, and even had hearing protection. Chances are he didnt realize that there were cops nearby.

    Mask and body armor do not necessarily translate to “wanted to get away.” Might mean “wanted to go for as long as possible before getting killed.”

    • Agree: donut, JMcG
    • Replies: @Kaganovitch
    Body armor, yes. Mask, no. In all likelihood he just liked image with mask, he thought it looked cool.
  36. @Anonymous
    There is also the little-known fact that most of the school shootings are committed by teens who were on or who recently stopped taking anti-depressants. SSRIs can cause homicidal or suicidal behavior, especially in teens.

    I’ve heard SSRIs referred to as “don’t-give-a-f**k” pills. Perhaps they suppress your depression by making you just not give a damn.

    • Replies: @Adam Smith

    I’ve heard SSRIs referred to as “don’t-give-a-f**k” pills. Perhaps they suppress your depression by making you just not give a damn.
     
    In polite circles it is called "emotional blunting" or "emotional detachment".

    Psychopathy is a personality disorder characterized by a lack of empathy.

    People get upset when I point out that SSRIs increase psychopathy. Unfortunately, this is exactly what these drugs do. It is a well known fact that SSRIs decrease empathy. I call it chemically induced psychopathy.

    Another drug known to increase violence is Adderall. Adderall, dextroamphetamine or amphetamine salts, is a very popular drug, now available in chewable form for children. Adzenys, as the chewable, fruity medication is called, packs the punch of Adderall and is geared toward children with attention deficit hyperactivity disorder. Adderall is often prescribed to children and even toddlers. More than 1/3 of college student in America abuse Adderall. Anyone who has taken Adderall knows that "Adderall psychosis" and "Adderall rage" are very real. And very dangerous. A quick browse of the internet finds all sorts of murders, homicides and violence involving Adderall. Since WWII the U.S. Airforce has been feeding Adderall, nicknamed "Go Pills" to Pilots as part of a "fatigue management program". I've read of people killing their children because of Adderall psychosis who have been acquitted by their juries. Adderall is almost indistinguishable from pharmaceutical methamphetamine.

    Adderall is America's favorite amphetamine.

    Ask your pediatrician if Adderall is right for your toddler.
  37. Anonymous[412] • Disclaimer says:
    @advancedatheist
    According to Reformed theology, which extrapolates from Augustine's speculation about predestination, every single one of us goes to hell by default, unless a god intervenes to send us to the other holding pen which has the better conditions. And our actions in this life have nothing to do with god's decision.

    According to Reformed theology, which extrapolates from Augustine’s speculation about predestination, every single one of us goes to hell by default, unless a god intervenes to send us to the other holding pen which has the better conditions. And our actions in this life have nothing to do with god’s decision.

    The ghastly idea of reprobation. A good example of why you should never subscribe to a religion founded by a French lawyer.

    • Replies: @Sam Haysom
    Calvinism was polemical and meant to be ideologically portable in a manner Lutheranism was not. Frankly Calvin would likely have been somewhat disappointed that his theology survived the waning of the counter reformation. It was meant to put Protestants on war footing not be a creed to build a lasting religion on.
    , @Desiderius
    Meh.

    When things are at their worst the sovereignty of God is most longed for. This age is too decadent to imagine such a thing, but decadent ages often produce those which can imagine little else.
  38. @Anonymous
    Kevin Smith on Joe Rogan's podcast: "Death is not to be feared." Clip:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SwAiKwnpwWI

    I understand the point you are likely making, but I can’t bring myself to listen to Kevin Smith for any length of time. A grown man who always wears a hockey jersey and a cap on backwards? He looks like a stupid twat. I can only assume he is one.

  39. @Hail
    Neil DeGrasse Tyson on mass shootings:

    https://twitter.com/neiltyson/status/1158074774297468928

    Neil DeGrasse Tyson
    @neiltyson

    In the past 48hrs, the USA horrifically lost 34 people to mass shootings.

    On average, across any 48hrs, we also lose…

    500 to Medical errors
    300 to the Flu
    250 to Suicide
    200 to Car Accidents
    40 to Homicide via Handgun

    Often our emotions respond more to spectacle than to data.
     

    Hail:

    So contrary to Tyson’s previous public persona. He has just beaten the sex charges. But this PC transgression will be much harder to beat.

    • Replies: @Kaganovitch
    No, he's trying to score points against handguns.
  40. @Anonymous
    Very few urban shooting homicides are ever solved
    Police speculate several in chi have killed ten or more before ultimately getting dropped or imprisoned on other charges.

    Right, urban shooting homicides are just like serial killing.

  41. Anonymous[412] • Disclaimer says:
    @Luke Lea
    In the light of modern science we can no longer imagine the mechanism of hell (or heaven) as things that might be experienced when we die. I suggest we look to modern neuroscience: to the way that the potentials for these kinds of emotional experiences (horror on the one side, a beatific vision on the other, for instance) are stored as electrostatic (is that the right word?) potentials in the cells of our brains. Why does the news of the death of a loved one affect us so much more deeply than of someone we do not know for instance? Because the potential for that experience has been created and somehow stored in our brain. Likewise for the feelings of guilt and many other negative (as well as positive) emotions: they are all stored as potentials like the charge on a capacitor, and when the brain disintegrates all remaining potentials are released. Or something along those lines.

    In the light of modern science we can no longer imagine the mechanism of hell (or heaven) as things that might be experienced when we die. I suggest we look to modern neuroscience

    Hmmm…

    The Washington Post

    By Julie Zauzmer
    March 3, 2017

    Why a Yale neuroscientist decided to change careers — and is now becoming a priest

    …He said he used to feel like the only one in the lab who believed in God — until he started seeing Yale professors filling the same pews he sat in at Mass. His work studying neurons led him to marvel all the more at God’s handiwork: “The complexity and yet the order in which things work in our body and in our brain, it makes you think there’s more than just randomness.”

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/acts-of-faith/wp/2017/03/03/why-a-yale-neuroscientist-decided-to-change-careers-and-is-now-becoming-a-priest/?noredirect=on&utm_campaign=buffer&utm_content=buffer74de0&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_term=.278be3e2ee31

    • Replies: @silviosilver

    His work studying neurons led him to marvel all the more at God’s handiwork: “The complexity and yet the order in which things work in our body and in our brain, it makes you think there’s more than just randomness.”
     
    In fact, it must mean that a Jewish carpenter named Yeshua ben Yosef was born to a virgin and rose from the dead to 'save' us [from himself]! When you really think about it, what else could the "complexity and yet the order in which things work in our body and in our brain" possibly mean?
  42. I doubt it, a more likely culprit is the continuous worship of victim theology. Beginning in the 1960s, perpetrators became less responsible for their actions. “It’s not you man, it’s SOCIETY that failed you.” This likely directs the statistical nutty outliers to follow through with such killing sprees. The vast majority of the time, these individuals are mentally disturbed with serious mental illnesses (bi-polar, schizophrenia, etc.) Also, the media fanfare of mass shooters is crazy. This helps other on edge individuals to follow through with such massacre daydreams.

    This is only a slight point, but a High School degree is as valuable as dogshit. There isn’t any high schools prestigious enough (a fictional Mensa High) that allows you to bypass college. Most K-12 students understand they’ll face a economic hellscape upon graduation. Those low-IQ students that want a good paying job after graduation (they can perform successfully) likely understand they’re screwed big time. “Why not take as many [email protected]#$$ as I can man?”

    Maybe the Warren Court also mandated a Court of Appeals in Hell? That people can be deemed unfit to stand trial in Hell.

  43. Decline in the fear of Hell may be one factor. Actual embrace of Hell may be another.

    The Satanic leanings of Connor Betts didn’t surprise me. I just spent a couple hours over the last few days reading about the Order of Nine Angles, a neo-Nazi Satanic esoteric order that I had never heard of before this past week.

    The ONA probably has very few actual members but has spread its message online for the last decade or so. It’s a bit like the lone wolf/autonomous cell forms of terrorism.

    Another factor that makes one wonder about Betts and other such criminals is one aspect of the ONA’s teaching that initiates must conduct a kind of human sacrifice to advance within the Order.

    Here’s some of what I read:

    https://thequietus.com/articles/25716-ona-fascism-nazis-folk-horror-underground-occult

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Order_of_Nine_Angles

    • Replies: @Mr. Anon
    Right locale (Hell), wrong side (right).

    Many people are now reporting (based on Twitter history) that the murderous fiend in Dayton was a leftist antifa supporter, a fan of Bernie and Betsy (Warren), and a self-professed satanist. This guy was even woke enough to call out his preferred pronouns. His parents made Facebook posts critical of Trump and the Alt-Right. And he was, on a time averaged basis, even more deadly than the apparent "white supremecist" murderer in El Paso - nine murdered in 30 seconds. According to some reports, his target was a bar that catered to conservative people. And cops, which might explain why he was put down so fast.

    Tell us again, MSM, how the Rhetoric of Hate has made such a crime possible? Will anybody be asking Sanders and Warren to explain and/or disavow this enthusiastic supporter of theirs?
  44. There seem to be a number of studies online that say that Protestants are much more likely than Catholics to commit suicide. This is taken as an argument that the inflexible Catholic doctrine, that suicide is a sin that will keep you out of heaven, is a stronger deterrent than the weaker, more individualistic Protestant stand.

  45. I could be wrong, but it’s not going to matter a whole lot if this stuff about Betts and antifa/leftism pans out. El Paso will drive the narrative and Dayton will just be used to bolster the case for gun control.

    RW media will cover it, but that’s not really saying much in the grand scheme.

    Also, you can tell how deep down Beto O’Rourke is ecstatic over this. He knows it’s wrong to feel that way but it’s just too perfect for him at this exact moment and he’s going to run with it and not feel too bad about his good fortune. Just may have have saved his brand too right when it was going off the cliff. True blue white male SJW scolds have no soul. They just don’t.

    • Replies: @JerseyJeffersonian
    Might explain his peculiar laughter in a YouTube video. Everything's coming up roses, old son, and the laughter just welled up from recesses of his vacant, rotting self at the thought of how he might be able to turn this to his advantage.
  46. El Paso crisis actor shooting hoax is being used as a pretext to shut down 8chan, 4chans more serious older brother.

    8chan Is a Megaphone for Gunmen. ‘Shut the Site Down,’ Says Its Creator

    Moments before the El Paso shooting on Saturday, a four-page message whose author identified himself as the gunman appeared on 8chan


    Ron

    All our domains have been removed from cloudflare, so we will be moving to another service asap. Please excuse any downtime as we migrate to the new service.

    Matthew Prince

    We just sent notice we are terminating service for 8chan. There comes a time when enough is enough. But this isn’t the end. We need to have a broader conversation about addressing the root causes of hate online.

    • Replies: @Anon
    Voat's been under attack for a week, and even Liveleak has had to hide its comment section for the last month. The left has been making an all-out push to knock the right-wing opinions off the air. We need to make cyberattacks on websites flat-out illegal. They are violations of Civil Rights and the Right to Free Speech. Put the people trying to silence free speech in jail.
  47. Ed says:

    The OH shooter appears to have been socially normal. The El Paso and Gilroy killer were social misfits. The El Paso killer kept to himself and complained bitterly about other kids. Gilroy killer was the son and brother of athletes good enough to compete for a spot on the Olympics. Both of his brothers were also good academically, he on the other hand was unremarkable. Many of his classmates didn’t even know he existed until today.

  48. Ed says:
    @kyle
    This is disingenuous. There’s no need to guess at motivation, the El Paso shooter outlined his motivations very clearly. He said that he hates Hispanics and wants to end immigration into Texas. Apparently the mall he attacked was a popular shopping destination for Mexican tourists. The Dayton shooter was nominally a Democrat but I suspect he blew a fuse for the same reason. He had never learned a marketable skill by the age of 24, he worked at chipotle, and he took some worthless community college courses. He knew he was a worthless POS, and the megaphone constantly tells him he is. He offed his sister and the boyfriend first although I think the boyfriend actually survived. Most of the dead are African American which is telling. In 2019 young white men are committing mass terrorism. Many of them have no criminal records so this won’t be solved with a tough on crime approach. These antisocial kids should be in the military, and we need to put microchips in guns.

    Exactly. Trump won in part due to former Democrats. Being a registered Democrat is nearly automatic for under 30 year olds it doesn’t signify much by itself.

    However the Dayton killer was active online and was immersed in liberal politics. His twitter has just been deleted but he liked tweets about El Paso right before his killing. So his affiliation with the left can’t be dismissed.

  49. @advancedatheist
    According to Reformed theology, which extrapolates from Augustine's speculation about predestination, every single one of us goes to hell by default, unless a god intervenes to send us to the other holding pen which has the better conditions. And our actions in this life have nothing to do with god's decision.

    You make two inaccurate generalizations:

    First, many Reformed theologians hold to Supralapsarianism, which places the decrees of salvation and reprobation prior to the decree of the fall (I’m writing of logical, not temporal order) which means that the elect were never destined to Hell, according to those who hold this doctrine. I really can’t say what percentage of the Reformed hold this view, although it seems to me that it is falling into disfavor.

    Second, it’s true that Reformed theologians believe that our actions are not the basis for God’s election to salvation; this is what is meant by Unconditional Election, that God chose in eternity past those whom He would save, apart from foreseen faith or obedience. But it is inaccurate to say that our actions in this life have nothing to do with God’s decision. The actions of the elect, after they are regenerated and brought to faith in Christ, are the result of God’s election. As Paul wrote in Ephesians 2:10, “For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, that we should walk in them.”

    So according to those who are Reformed, while God elects sinners to save unconditionally, those whom He saves are saved UNTO good works, although NOT BY good works.

    The Last True Calvinist may want to jump into this discussion. It’s my understanding that many Dutch Reformed used to be Supralapsarians.

    • Replies: @Desiderius
    Salvation is the beginning, not the end, of life in Christ.
  50. @PiltdownMan

    There have been so many of these incidents that you can scarcely tell one from another anymore
     
    School shootings have being going on for a long time—Wikipedia's list goes back to 1840—but mass school shootings are a development from recent times. Here's a rather old-timey sounding incident from the 1850s, from that database. Presumably, everyone involved feared Hell, but didn't care.


    August 16, 1856 Florence, Alabama The schoolmaster warned students not to harm his tame sparrow, threatening death. One of the boys stepped on the bird and killed it. When the boy returned to school, the master took the boy into a private room and strangled him. The boy's father upon hearing what had happened went to the school and shot the schoolmaster dead.

     

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_school_shootings_in_the_United_States

    This undermines your point. Notice how neither of the men then went on the murder various other bystanders. They killed he who had enraged them and then ceased. How you can equate that the yesterday’s violence boggles the mind. Or really it doesn’t. You are clearly someone who wishes violently there was no hell but can’t escape your own callow sense of dread.

    • Replies: @PiltdownMan

    You are clearly someone ...
     
    I see.
  51. @Anonymous

    According to Reformed theology, which extrapolates from Augustine’s speculation about predestination, every single one of us goes to hell by default, unless a god intervenes to send us to the other holding pen which has the better conditions. And our actions in this life have nothing to do with god’s decision.
     
    The ghastly idea of reprobation. A good example of why you should never subscribe to a religion founded by a French lawyer.

    Calvinism was polemical and meant to be ideologically portable in a manner Lutheranism was not. Frankly Calvin would likely have been somewhat disappointed that his theology survived the waning of the counter reformation. It was meant to put Protestants on war footing not be a creed to build a lasting religion on.

    • Replies: @Hypnotoad666
    I find the idea of Calvinism to be very appealing. Predestination is an absolutely brilliant theological innovation.

    God already knows who you are and your fate in the afterlife is thetefore already settled. There is nothing you can do about.
    That seems like a very liberating creed.

    The astonishing thing, of course, is that the people who believed this didn't became fatalistic hedonists. Quite the opposite.

    A lot of that probably had to do with the Northern European culture and stock that they came from. But there must have also been some sort of psychological effect that comes from internalizing a belief that you are one of the elect, and then living up to that self-identity in this world.
  52. Black teens commit violence all the time, which the media ignores. When whites do it (though much less often), the media goes bananas. When goes to show you that at heart, the media still thinks whites are much more important to write about than blacks.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    Black teens commit violence all the time, which the media ignores.
     
    Well, duh. Dog-bites-man.

    Mass coverage is evidence for a phenomenon's rarity. The lack thereof is evidence of its ubiquity.
    , @Ancient Briton
    Man Bites Dog.
  53. @Anonymous
    There is also the little-known fact that most of the school shootings are committed by teens who were on or who recently stopped taking anti-depressants. SSRIs can cause homicidal or suicidal behavior, especially in teens.

    SSRIs can cause homicidal or suicidal behavior

    At this point, almost everyone in America who doesn’t feel “right” is already on some kind of SSRI. So I’m not sure that factor is terribly predictive.

    If SSRIs made people homicidal, the whole country would be dead by now.

    • Replies: @Mr. Anon

    If SSRIs made people homicidal, the whole country would be dead by now.
     
    Perhaps they tip people who are barely holding it together into the f**k-it-all" column.
  54. @FPD72
    You make two inaccurate generalizations:

    First, many Reformed theologians hold to Supralapsarianism, which places the decrees of salvation and reprobation prior to the decree of the fall (I’m writing of logical, not temporal order) which means that the elect were never destined to Hell, according to those who hold this doctrine. I really can’t say what percentage of the Reformed hold this view, although it seems to me that it is falling into disfavor.

    Second, it’s true that Reformed theologians believe that our actions are not the basis for God’s election to salvation; this is what is meant by Unconditional Election, that God chose in eternity past those whom He would save, apart from foreseen faith or obedience. But it is inaccurate to say that our actions in this life have nothing to do with God’s decision. The actions of the elect, after they are regenerated and brought to faith in Christ, are the result of God’s election. As Paul wrote in Ephesians 2:10, “For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, that we should walk in them.”

    So according to those who are Reformed, while God elects sinners to save unconditionally, those whom He saves are saved UNTO good works, although NOT BY good works.

    The Last True Calvinist may want to jump into this discussion. It’s my understanding that many Dutch Reformed used to be Supralapsarians.

    Salvation is the beginning, not the end, of life in Christ.

  55. @kyle
    This is disingenuous. There’s no need to guess at motivation, the El Paso shooter outlined his motivations very clearly. He said that he hates Hispanics and wants to end immigration into Texas. Apparently the mall he attacked was a popular shopping destination for Mexican tourists. The Dayton shooter was nominally a Democrat but I suspect he blew a fuse for the same reason. He had never learned a marketable skill by the age of 24, he worked at chipotle, and he took some worthless community college courses. He knew he was a worthless POS, and the megaphone constantly tells him he is. He offed his sister and the boyfriend first although I think the boyfriend actually survived. Most of the dead are African American which is telling. In 2019 young white men are committing mass terrorism. Many of them have no criminal records so this won’t be solved with a tough on crime approach. These antisocial kids should be in the military, and we need to put microchips in guns.

    I saw posts indicating his parents were hardcore lefties.

  56. Yeah, once they took the descending into hell out of the Apostles Creed that kind of killed some of the romance. I always enjoyed picturing Christ down there kicking ass and taking names making those three very long days for Satan before rising again from the Dead.

    • Replies: @JMcG
    Erm, when did they do that? That passage isn’t in the Nicene creed but I hadn’t hear of the Apostle’s Creed having been changed. Serious question.
  57. @Percy Gryce
    Decline in the fear of Hell may be one factor. Actual embrace of Hell may be another.

    The Satanic leanings of Connor Betts didn't surprise me. I just spent a couple hours over the last few days reading about the Order of Nine Angles, a neo-Nazi Satanic esoteric order that I had never heard of before this past week.

    The ONA probably has very few actual members but has spread its message online for the last decade or so. It's a bit like the lone wolf/autonomous cell forms of terrorism.

    Another factor that makes one wonder about Betts and other such criminals is one aspect of the ONA's teaching that initiates must conduct a kind of human sacrifice to advance within the Order.

    Here's some of what I read:

    https://thequietus.com/articles/25716-ona-fascism-nazis-folk-horror-underground-occult

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Order_of_Nine_Angles

    Right locale (Hell), wrong side (right).

    Many people are now reporting (based on Twitter history) that the murderous fiend in Dayton was a leftist antifa supporter, a fan of Bernie and Betsy (Warren), and a self-professed satanist. This guy was even woke enough to call out his preferred pronouns. His parents made Facebook posts critical of Trump and the Alt-Right. And he was, on a time averaged basis, even more deadly than the apparent “white supremecist” murderer in El Paso – nine murdered in 30 seconds. According to some reports, his target was a bar that catered to conservative people. And cops, which might explain why he was put down so fast.

    Tell us again, MSM, how the Rhetoric of Hate has made such a crime possible? Will anybody be asking Sanders and Warren to explain and/or disavow this enthusiastic supporter of theirs?

    • Agree: Dissident
    • Replies: @JerseyJeffersonian
    Rather like the Bernie Bro who shot up the baseball practice of Republicans from the Congress. Unmistakeably, this was an act of political terrorism, to anybody who was honest about this deed, at least.

    But my, my, how that one got shoved down the Memory Hole on the double quick. I mean, that's just not who fervent leftists are. But on the other hand, that is exactly who fervent rightists are, don't you agree, sez The Narrative.
  58. @Anonymous

    According to Reformed theology, which extrapolates from Augustine’s speculation about predestination, every single one of us goes to hell by default, unless a god intervenes to send us to the other holding pen which has the better conditions. And our actions in this life have nothing to do with god’s decision.
     
    The ghastly idea of reprobation. A good example of why you should never subscribe to a religion founded by a French lawyer.

    Meh.

    When things are at their worst the sovereignty of God is most longed for. This age is too decadent to imagine such a thing, but decadent ages often produce those which can imagine little else.

  59. @Hypnotoad666

    SSRIs can cause homicidal or suicidal behavior
     
    At this point, almost everyone in America who doesn't feel "right" is already on some kind of SSRI. So I'm not sure that factor is terribly predictive.

    If SSRIs made people homicidal, the whole country would be dead by now.

    If SSRIs made people homicidal, the whole country would be dead by now.

    Perhaps they tip people who are barely holding it together into the f**k-it-all” column.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Or it could be that they do some good for 20% of the people who use them and make 1% worse?
  60. @Anonymous
    There is also the little-known fact that most of the school shootings are committed by teens who were on or who recently stopped taking anti-depressants. SSRIs can cause homicidal or suicidal behavior, especially in teens.

    The majority of people taking SSRIs are women. Are white females becoming a lot more homocidal?

    • Replies: @J.Ross
    As women they suffer controls which skew the usefulness of that point (cf female vs male suicide methods). However, it has been noted that we are seeing unprecedented female violence; it's just that, well, it doesn't go anywhere.
    , @JerseyJeffersonian
    Well, perhaps they are, but rather in the manner of Lady Macbeth; she did not herself murder King Duncan, but she was the ultimate goad for her husband to do the deed. I think that you can certainly descry some radically inciteful speech against white males in recent times, no?

    They have been a crucial element in the demonization and disempowerment of white men in the agitprop of the left.

    Not that they will get any thanks from the Coalition of the Fringes for their efforts, because as "Beckies", equally tarred by the brush of White Privilege as are white men, they will be turned upon with vengeful savagery once their part as "useful idiots" has run its course.
  61. @Mr. Anon

    If SSRIs made people homicidal, the whole country would be dead by now.
     
    Perhaps they tip people who are barely holding it together into the f**k-it-all" column.

    Or it could be that they do some good for 20% of the people who use them and make 1% worse?

    • Replies: @Hypnotoad666

    Or it could be that they do some good for 20% of the people who use them and make 1% worse?
     
    One theory is that SSRIs increase the risk of suicide because they give some depressed people just enough initiative to stop procrastinating and finally get around to killing themselves.

    If true, I suppose the same phenomenon could apply to the homicidal as well.

    It's interesting, though, that our culture is fascinated with "profiling" serial killers. But nobody seems to have much of an idea what makes these mass shooters do what they do.
    , @Yngvar
    I have only known one guy that used SSRIs. He had problems, we talked about it. He said the meds helped. Got himself killed when he drove off the road. Not sure if the recklessness was him or the drugs.
  62. @Sam Haysom
    Calvinism was polemical and meant to be ideologically portable in a manner Lutheranism was not. Frankly Calvin would likely have been somewhat disappointed that his theology survived the waning of the counter reformation. It was meant to put Protestants on war footing not be a creed to build a lasting religion on.

    I find the idea of Calvinism to be very appealing. Predestination is an absolutely brilliant theological innovation.

    God already knows who you are and your fate in the afterlife is thetefore already settled. There is nothing you can do about.
    That seems like a very liberating creed.

    The astonishing thing, of course, is that the people who believed this didn’t became fatalistic hedonists. Quite the opposite.

    A lot of that probably had to do with the Northern European culture and stock that they came from. But there must have also been some sort of psychological effect that comes from internalizing a belief that you are one of the elect, and then living up to that self-identity in this world.

    • Replies: @silviosilver

    God already knows who you are and your fate in the afterlife is thetefore already settled. There is nothing you can do about.
    That seems like a very liberating creed.
     
    Yeah, the possibility that you're going to spend eternity in hell -- that's a long time, btw - and there's nothing whatsoever you can do to prevent it is just, like, so liberating.

    Eternal punishment is a vile enough doctrine as it is, but the idea that some people have been predestined for it since the beginning of time is just sick.
    , @Counterinsurgency

    The astonishing thing, of course, is that the people who believed this didn’t became fatalistic hedonists. Quite the opposite.

    A lot of that probably had to do with the Northern European culture and stock that they came from. But there must have also been some sort of psychological effect that comes from internalizing a belief that you are one of the elect, and then living up to that self-identity in this world.
     
    A considerable amount of character formation comes from conformity to the peer group. Infants first build up brain structure, then tear it down, as they imitate their parents (learn language, learn how their parents act, etc.) and then become an independent entity. During childhood, children start to learn abstract codes of behavior. Codes are a consistent body of rules and assertions, (e.g. "protect your sister" or "care about other people", or the converse of these assertions).

    The Predestination code gives a pre-teen and a teen a framework with which to conform, one that is excellent for standing off attacks by other teens. "You think that stealing drinks shows you are powerful and have superior social position? I say it means you are predestined for Hell. And that you're a liar, inspired by the Father of Lies himself".

    Harder to pull that off when your Puritan parents have converted you to Unitarianism, which (among other things) says that the SOB who just spit in your face and knocked you down is going to Heaven, same as you, and moreover tend to side with the SOB because he's oppressef in some way that doesn't seem to involve getting spit on and knocked down.

    Counterinsurgency
    , @William Badwhite

    Predestination is an absolutely brilliant theological innovation...A lot of that probably had to do with the Northern European culture and stock
     
    With obvious differences in the details, doesn't voodoo offer similar incentives? I.e. "the gods will decide" so there is no point in showing any initiative, gaining an education, etc because none of that will change the whims of various gods?

    Obv the differences between Northern Europeans and Haitians have led to differing approaches to the "nothing you can about it".
    , @stillCARealist
    So you think believers in predestination are like NT Jews then? God's chosen people.

    Too bad so many of the old Hebrews weren't actually "chosen" since God killed most of them off for their wickedness. There are wonderful descriptions of this throughout the OT. Start with Deuteronomy 28 for a good list of blessings and curses for keeping or breaking the covenant.

    So too these NT believers who consider themselves chosen and live in disobedience. They're in a for a nasty surprise when they see the consequences of sin both now and in the future.
    , @S. Anonyia
    Predestination seems to be the cousin of all those gloomy Germanic sagas where one’s destiny was unavoidable, and all the world is going to end one day anyway. Comes from the same impulse I think. What would be really weird would be if a tropical culture embraced predestination.
  63. @BenKenobi
    My guess is a lot of people have been pushed to the brink in recent years, and while there they looked long into the abyss.

    Lack of fear of hell is a part but just one thread. The entire garment is the breakdown of connection and purpose. Modernity, prosperity, science were always going to be a challenge to manage–modernity really needs to be accompanied with eugenics–but the atomization has amplified through the roof by the destruction of minoritarianism.

    Tight tribal communities can survive because they cultivate their own social world for their members. Think Orthodox Jews or the Amish or the Mormons. Not perfection, and certainly doesn’t work for all their members, but … they’ve got something. But the minoritarian wrecking ball has smashed up the operation of normal majority community going about its busiess in its culture–as it was very much intended to.

    What does a typical white gentile boy face? Anomie.
    — Their culture which is supposed to be the common culture … is common no more.
    — Christianity is no longer normative–is under assault as a public cultural force–and may not be in their life at all.
    — Their race, the heritage their inherited under constant assualt–nothing to be proud of, but rather something they are supposed to apologize for.
    — Their labor is surplus. Even if they are smart, the “nation of immigrants” people think some Indian or Chinese is entitled to their job–studying in the universities, with the technology, in the companies their ancestors built. And if they are not so smart … a Mexican can provide muscle cheaper with less lip.
    — His own family may well be a mess–perhaps just because of his parents genes, but the likelyhood jacked up by feminism, easy divorce, and the nation’s social and cultural breakdown.
    — Their women–the girls they should marry and have families with … are theirs no more. The girls are you-go-girling on their own jobs. They are taught by Hollyweird, the schools, the whole culture to be sluts, and if a boy doesn’t have alpha skills … they aren’t slutting with him. Even if he’s solid enough to have a good job … he gets shitty slut 2nds. If he’s un/under-employed exposed to the world labor market or he’s just socially awkward … forget about it.

    Basically America is no longer a nation with a people and culture he is part of. America is just a market place for the “global cosmopolitans” to exploit. And his market value in that market place is … loser!

    F’ y’all. Bang, bang, bang.

    • Replies: @Rosie

    — Their women–the girls they should marry and have families with … are theirs no more. The girls are you-go-girling on their own jobs. They are taught by Hollyweird, the schools, the whole culture to be sluts, and if a boy doesn’t have alpha skills … they aren’t slutting with him. Even if he’s solid enough to have a good job … he gets shitty slut 2nds. If he’s un/under-employed exposed to the world labor market or he’s just socially awkward … forget about it.
     
    Guess what, AnotherDad, the fact that a girl has a job doesn't mean a man can't court and marry her.

    The longer you all pretend not to understand this, the more I tend to agree with the assessment that men just really don't want a competent women, they want a helpless dependent to lord it over. Sounds harsh, but I'm just calling it like I see it.
    , @Stebbing Heuer
    The miracle then is that there are so few mass shootings.
    , @NickG
    That's pretty good, and I suspect, pretty much on the money.
    , @Desiderius
    That’s a good diagnosis for the people having trouble, but there are a lot more healthy people than you think (healthy because we have what you correctly identify as necessary).
    , @68W58
    Absolutely spot on.
    , @Intelligent Dasein

    The entire garment is the breakdown of connection and purpose.
     
    The shooters did not suffer from any lack of purpose. They had a purpose to kill people, which they pursued with great gusto. James Holmes, in particular, could not have been more clear about this. Continuing to think of them as unfortunates who somehow fell through the cracks of society is just more liberal, bleeding heart, universalist nonsense. I guarantee you none of them thought of themselves that way. They would have pursued the same course of action no matter what, advantaged or disadvantaged.
  64. Apropos of nothing, the writer of I Don’t Like Mondays also started Band Aid, which prompted the great line from Russell Brand: No wonder Bob Geldof is such an expert on famine. He’s been dining off I Don’t Like Mondays for 30 years.

  65. @Steve Sailer
    Or it could be that they do some good for 20% of the people who use them and make 1% worse?

    Or it could be that they do some good for 20% of the people who use them and make 1% worse?

    One theory is that SSRIs increase the risk of suicide because they give some depressed people just enough initiative to stop procrastinating and finally get around to killing themselves.

    If true, I suppose the same phenomenon could apply to the homicidal as well.

    It’s interesting, though, that our culture is fascinated with “profiling” serial killers. But nobody seems to have much of an idea what makes these mass shooters do what they do.

    • Replies: @L Woods
    They ‘don’t know’ because they’re pointedly uninterested in knowing.
    , @TWS
    Wearing glasses seems to be a common factor for this bunch. Seriously, you have a valid point, we should be doing, (unadvertised) studies on this. No need to feed the beast.
    , @Known Fact
    Curiosity and disclosure regarding the Las Vegas shooter's motives seemed especially lacking
  66. In some cases the alternative right may be partly responsible for some of these mass shootings. But not in the way the liberal media claims. Right wingers who argue that any form of peaceful political activity is a complete waste of time, and that the Machiavellian (rather than muddled, irrational and sentimental) left can only be countered with violence are effectively encouraging young white males to kill people who are a potential threat to them.

  67. @Tiny Duck
    It looks white conservatives kill almost t of people

    Now do you folks understand why demographic change is necessary?

    Common Tiny, your better than this. This online community takes proper spelling and grammar very seriously. Bad writing hinders your message. Who’s going to take you seriously on the perils of white power if you spell white as “wite?”

    We believe in you Tiny, so here’s a motivational video to get your spirits up.

  68. I think it’s more social unravelling and a precedent set by other examples covered in the media. This is also the explanation for the rise of serial killers who were inspired by the media coverage of others, it sets a precedent that it can by done. In the case of serial killers, policing became much more effective at dealing with them. But as is stated time and again, the best way to deal with mass shootings is to not give them the kind of coverage they get in the media today.

    If you have men mass exposed to an environment of ennui, of no ties to anyone or anything and not even distracted with a decent job or sense of belonging to nation, you have no idea what they’ll think about doing and then what some will do.

    • Agree: El Dato
  69. If the situation is anything like in the UK: Cannabis.

    https://attackersmokedcannabis.com/

  70. The decline in lunatic asylums, half these people should have been locked up.

  71. @Anonymous
    There is also the little-known fact that most of the school shootings are committed by teens who were on or who recently stopped taking anti-depressants. SSRIs can cause homicidal or suicidal behavior, especially in teens.

    America is the only country that mass medicates their young, despite the fact the chemistry of the brain is little understood and that being moody is a phase for most teenagers that they will grow out of.

  72. Anonymous[301] • Disclaimer says:

    My guess is, that apart from the availability of automatic weapons, it is the virtual cessation of capital punishment everywhere in the west – imposed by political fools.
    In the rare occasions in which the death penalty is actually imposed in the USA delay after delay after appeal after appeal – due to cowardice amongst the authorities – renders the whole thing a tedious bore.
    The spectacle of capital punishment – a relict from the earliest days of the civil state – is a reminder to the populace that ‘supreme authority’ reserves the right to forfeit any individuals life, and is not shy of exercising it. That is why until relatively recently the spectacle was public.
    Early 18th century England, supposedly a time of great liberty and freedom, was particularly fierce in applying capital punishment. The time between the committing of the crime, trial and execution was exceedingly short. The only appeal was an appeal to the King for mercy. The death penalty was applied for offences which today would be regarded as trivial, such as theft of a few shillings’ worth of property.

    Today, things have swung too far in the other direction. Basically, the prosecuting authority is ashamed of its self and the power it could wield. The analogy is the reticence in enforcing immigration control in the west. Show of power or of force in a decisive way is taboo.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    In 18th century England ownership of firearms was free an unregulated to all, however the crime of 'shooting at' - that is discharging a gun at person(s) for no good reason was invariably capital.
    In fact 'shooters at' were one of the biggest groups of those hanged at Tyburn.
  73. Anonymous[301] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anonymous
    My guess is, that apart from the availability of automatic weapons, it is the virtual cessation of capital punishment everywhere in the west - imposed by political fools.
    In the rare occasions in which the death penalty is actually imposed in the USA delay after delay after appeal after appeal - due to cowardice amongst the authorities - renders the whole thing a tedious bore.
    The spectacle of capital punishment - a relict from the earliest days of the civil state - is a reminder to the populace that 'supreme authority' reserves the right to forfeit any individuals life, and is not shy of exercising it. That is why until relatively recently the spectacle was public.
    Early 18th century England, supposedly a time of great liberty and freedom, was particularly fierce in applying capital punishment. The time between the committing of the crime, trial and execution was exceedingly short. The only appeal was an appeal to the King for mercy. The death penalty was applied for offences which today would be regarded as trivial, such as theft of a few shillings' worth of property.

    Today, things have swung too far in the other direction. Basically, the prosecuting authority is ashamed of its self and the power it could wield. The analogy is the reticence in enforcing immigration control in the west. Show of power or of force in a decisive way is taboo.

    In 18th century England ownership of firearms was free an unregulated to all, however the crime of ‘shooting at’ – that is discharging a gun at person(s) for no good reason was invariably capital.
    In fact ‘shooters at’ were one of the biggest groups of those hanged at Tyburn.

  74. We, as a society, make murder relatively pain-free for the murderer. If they don’t fear Hell, they might fear being hanged, drawn and quartered, and let’s do it publicly so that justice can be seen to be done.

    • Replies: @NYMOM
    Well punishment was much worse in medieval times and people still murdered and went to war and committed horrible atrocities against civilians...

    Maybe war channels those overly aggressive individuals into 'productive' violence and when you don't have those channels they go down that route anyway, but against their own so to speak.

    If we still had the draft many of these young men would have gone into the army, marines, navy and channeled their aggression that way. I often think of the Greek warrior Ajax who one night slaughtered a herd of sheep (I often thought they might have been talking about captive women). His act was so gruesome that even other warriors in the camp were horrified. But he was considered before that act to be just a normal Greek warrior.
    , @Rapparee
    Our aversion to harsh capital punishments is also related to our less spiritual outlook compared to our ancestors. In the 15th century, a highwayman being broken on the wheel was assured that he was working off some of his time in Purgatory upon the scaffold, and the crowd of onlookers believed the same- they would even shout words of encouragement and inspiration to the convict as his limbs were broken, urging him to suffer bravely for the benefit of his immortal soul. During the more skeptical and secular Enlightenment, such punishments were understood purely as deterrent examples operating by the power of Earthly fear alone, devoid of spiritual significance, and as such seemed to most far too barbaric for their ostensible purpose. 21st-century Westerners view punishments like breaking on the wheel, hanging, drawing, and quartering, and burning at the stake as barbarous savagery, but I imagine pious Medieval Christians would find our modern penal system even more reprehensible, as it destroys the soul, not the body.
  75. @Hypnotoad666
    I find the idea of Calvinism to be very appealing. Predestination is an absolutely brilliant theological innovation.

    God already knows who you are and your fate in the afterlife is thetefore already settled. There is nothing you can do about.
    That seems like a very liberating creed.

    The astonishing thing, of course, is that the people who believed this didn't became fatalistic hedonists. Quite the opposite.

    A lot of that probably had to do with the Northern European culture and stock that they came from. But there must have also been some sort of psychological effect that comes from internalizing a belief that you are one of the elect, and then living up to that self-identity in this world.

    God already knows who you are and your fate in the afterlife is thetefore already settled. There is nothing you can do about.
    That seems like a very liberating creed.

    Yeah, the possibility that you’re going to spend eternity in hell — that’s a long time, btw – and there’s nothing whatsoever you can do to prevent it is just, like, so liberating.

    Eternal punishment is a vile enough doctrine as it is, but the idea that some people have been predestined for it since the beginning of time is just sick.

  76. @Anonymous

    In the light of modern science we can no longer imagine the mechanism of hell (or heaven) as things that might be experienced when we die. I suggest we look to modern neuroscience
     
    Hmmm...

    The Washington Post

    By Julie Zauzmer
    March 3, 2017

    Why a Yale neuroscientist decided to change careers — and is now becoming a priest

    ...He said he used to feel like the only one in the lab who believed in God — until he started seeing Yale professors filling the same pews he sat in at Mass. His work studying neurons led him to marvel all the more at God’s handiwork: “The complexity and yet the order in which things work in our body and in our brain, it makes you think there’s more than just randomness.”

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/acts-of-faith/wp/2017/03/03/why-a-yale-neuroscientist-decided-to-change-careers-and-is-now-becoming-a-priest/?noredirect=on&utm_campaign=buffer&utm_content=buffer74de0&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_term=.278be3e2ee31
     

    His work studying neurons led him to marvel all the more at God’s handiwork: “The complexity and yet the order in which things work in our body and in our brain, it makes you think there’s more than just randomness.”

    In fact, it must mean that a Jewish carpenter named Yeshua ben Yosef was born to a virgin and rose from the dead to ‘save’ us [from himself]! When you really think about it, what else could the “complexity and yet the order in which things work in our body and in our brain” possibly mean?

    • LOL: RVBlake
  77. Rising above the din, a Transgender’s take on “Racism”…

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=4&v=lNKj5Xh78wM

    • Replies: @El Dato
    Blind Becky: "I am racist ... I profit from capitalism which was built on slavery and racism".

    Is this real?

    So I hear YouTube demonized, sorry de-monit-ized, this channel.

    Do employees at YouTube keep a ballgag in their pocket, to be used when the Big Colored Person comes in to signal appropriate submissiveness?
  78. @education realist
    I'm well aware of what was going on between 1909 and 1940, but that was entertainment media. News media wasn't really nationalized until television. I should have been precise.

    You might be interested in:
    Wolfgang Schivelbusch.
    _Three New Deals_.
    Metropolitan Books, 2006.
    Schivelbusch discusses parallels between the US, Germany, and Italy. He discusses the radical change in their form of government after 1929, and follows it until the start of WW II. This is apparently a quite well established form of academic inquiry (or was in 2009), and Schivelbusch appears to have written a survey book for non-academics.

    Among other things, Schivelbusch discusses control of radio and the printed media. He points out that contemporaries (US and German) considered US radio and printed media to be under effective government control in the US, and cites laws that, for example, required re-licensing of US radio stations every six months, and required prior submission of the text of “public affairs” broadcast prior to their broadcast. He also points out that, in most cases, the radio networks actually anticipated the government, apparently to “maintain good relations”. Newspapers were a deal less cooperative, but also less influential.

    This is not another “America is Nazi Germany” book. Schivelbusch’s comparisons at least seem to be quite well documented, and he points out that FDR’s power was a good deal more circumscribed than Hitler’s or Mussolini’s, but was similar in that all three were charismatic leaders excluded form the ruling establishment of their nations prior to 1929. He implies that the programs of all three failed in their own terms, and the US program was rescued only after victory in 1945. This “failed new deal” idea was fairly widespread during the 1950s and 1960s.

    And, of course, the 2009 book does not include the material from Suvorov’s works (e.g. _The Chief Culprit_), and so leaves out Stalin’s influence on Hitler’s career.

    Counterinsurgency

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    FDR was an Establishment figure, the Dems' VP candidate in 1920, although his career was sidetracked by polio in 1921.
  79. @Prosa123
    Connor Betts probably did plan to get away. He wore mask and body armor, and even had hearing protection. Chances are he didnt realize that there were cops nearby.

    The hearing protection angle is interesting. The few times I’ve fired a long gun without hearing protection were notably stunning. But I don’t recall if my hearing was temporarily impaired enough to not hear a blind side approach. Especially with multiple rounds fired from an AR or AK. (I was in the army infantry 88-92)

    Is a shooter with such a rifle more susceptible to a blind side tackle with or without ear protection? Is contemplating such a thing 99% suicidal? 50%?

    • Replies: @Counterinsurgency

    Is a shooter with such a rifle more susceptible to a blind side tackle with or without ear protection?
     
    Contemporary hearing protectors can be purchased that have an electronic cutout so that you have amplified hearing _except_ during loud noises. These are sold for hunting, when it is important to hear what's going on around you.

    Counterinsurgency
  80. @Hypnotoad666
    I find the idea of Calvinism to be very appealing. Predestination is an absolutely brilliant theological innovation.

    God already knows who you are and your fate in the afterlife is thetefore already settled. There is nothing you can do about.
    That seems like a very liberating creed.

    The astonishing thing, of course, is that the people who believed this didn't became fatalistic hedonists. Quite the opposite.

    A lot of that probably had to do with the Northern European culture and stock that they came from. But there must have also been some sort of psychological effect that comes from internalizing a belief that you are one of the elect, and then living up to that self-identity in this world.

    The astonishing thing, of course, is that the people who believed this didn’t became fatalistic hedonists. Quite the opposite.

    A lot of that probably had to do with the Northern European culture and stock that they came from. But there must have also been some sort of psychological effect that comes from internalizing a belief that you are one of the elect, and then living up to that self-identity in this world.

    A considerable amount of character formation comes from conformity to the peer group. Infants first build up brain structure, then tear it down, as they imitate their parents (learn language, learn how their parents act, etc.) and then become an independent entity. During childhood, children start to learn abstract codes of behavior. Codes are a consistent body of rules and assertions, (e.g. “protect your sister” or “care about other people”, or the converse of these assertions).

    The Predestination code gives a pre-teen and a teen a framework with which to conform, one that is excellent for standing off attacks by other teens. “You think that stealing drinks shows you are powerful and have superior social position? I say it means you are predestined for Hell. And that you’re a liar, inspired by the Father of Lies himself”.

    Harder to pull that off when your Puritan parents have converted you to Unitarianism, which (among other things) says that the SOB who just spit in your face and knocked you down is going to Heaven, same as you, and moreover tend to side with the SOB because he’s oppressef in some way that doesn’t seem to involve getting spit on and knocked down.

    Counterinsurgency

  81. As to differences as between protestant and Catholic propensity to suicide could it not be the case that for whatever reason the peoples that went Protestant (Scandinavians, north and East Germans, Dutch, Swiss, English, scots and their overseas successors) also happened to be those who are most genetically predisposed to depression, which is not unconnected with tendency to suicide.

  82. What about Muslims? How do they fit in your theory? Are radical Muslims supposed to be less afraid of Hell than moderate ones?

    • Replies: @TBA
    Muhammad did say that those who died fighting the infidel would go straight to Paradise, without even having to wait in the grave (apparently uncomfortable) for Judgment Day.
    , @Stebbing Heuer
    Their doctrine tells them that martyrs go to heaven.
    So long as you kill the 'right' people, in the 'right' cause, and die doing so, then ...
    , @Counterinsurgency

    Are radical Muslims supposed to be less afraid of Hell than moderate ones?
     
    Fighters for Islam have, since the AD 700s, been recruited largely from social outcasts who are told of one last chance to get to Paradise by fighting physically for Allah. Same with the very religious. Great way to recruit irregular fighters, BTW. Selects people who are going to die anyway and have some experience with living rough without social support. Produces fighters who need very little logistic support and are very tenacious. On the whole, low intensity border wars tend to be a net plus for Islamic societies. Troublemakers vanish from the interior, show up at the borders. Resulting unmatched women are taken into harems.

    Organized forces are expensive, and don't tend to do that well against irregulars anyway. You tend to get extensive ungoverned zones populated by expendable and highly motivated irregulars. Clearing such an area with conventional forces is like clearing a house of hornets with a flyswatter; you'd have to get the nest to get the hornets, and the nest if not in the ungoverned zone.

    So: Islamic fighters are, perhaps, more afraid of Hell than most people, and go well out of their way to avoid it.

    Counterinsurgency
  83. @Sam Haysom
    This undermines your point. Notice how neither of the men then went on the murder various other bystanders. They killed he who had enraged them and then ceased. How you can equate that the yesterday’s violence boggles the mind. Or really it doesn’t. You are clearly someone who wishes violently there was no hell but can’t escape your own callow sense of dread.

    You are clearly someone …

    I see.

    • LOL: Kevin O'Keeffe
    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar


    You are clearly someone …
     
    I see.
     
    Scrawl your number on my wall
    and maybe you will get a call from me...

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Kt5OoWr4v1k

  84. anonymous[353] • Disclaimer says:
    @education realist
    I'm well aware of what was going on between 1909 and 1940, but that was entertainment media. News media wasn't really nationalized until television. I should have been precise.

    No moron he’s talking about the news media too before 1940.

  85. @Counterinsurgency
    You might be interested in:
    Wolfgang Schivelbusch.
    _Three New Deals_.
    Metropolitan Books, 2006.
    Schivelbusch discusses parallels between the US, Germany, and Italy. He discusses the radical change in their form of government after 1929, and follows it until the start of WW II. This is apparently a quite well established form of academic inquiry (or was in 2009), and Schivelbusch appears to have written a survey book for non-academics.

    Among other things, Schivelbusch discusses control of radio and the printed media. He points out that contemporaries (US and German) considered US radio and printed media to be under effective government control in the US, and cites laws that, for example, required re-licensing of US radio stations every six months, and required prior submission of the text of "public affairs" broadcast prior to their broadcast. He also points out that, in most cases, the radio networks actually anticipated the government, apparently to "maintain good relations". Newspapers were a deal less cooperative, but also less influential.

    This is not another "America is Nazi Germany" book. Schivelbusch's comparisons at least seem to be quite well documented, and he points out that FDR's power was a good deal more circumscribed than Hitler's or Mussolini's, but was similar in that all three were charismatic leaders excluded form the ruling establishment of their nations prior to 1929. He implies that the programs of all three failed in their own terms, and the US program was rescued only after victory in 1945. This "failed new deal" idea was fairly widespread during the 1950s and 1960s.

    And, of course, the 2009 book does not include the material from Suvorov's works (e.g. _The Chief Culprit_), and so leaves out Stalin's influence on Hitler's career.

    Counterinsurgency

    FDR was an Establishment figure, the Dems’ VP candidate in 1920, although his career was sidetracked by polio in 1921.

    • Replies: @Counterinsurgency

    FDR was an Establishment figure, the Dems’ VP candidate in 1920, although his career was sidetracked by polio in 1921.
     
    Right, and Democratic Governor of NY State in 1929.

    Nevertheless, Schivelbusch makes a good case that FDR was not establishment.

    FDR was a bit of a maverick. With his patrician background, he should have been a Republican. At the same time, he wasn't a political organization man. It marked him as someone out of the ordinary for his party (sort of like Trump in that respect) and his class, and gave him the visible independence from party and class needed for the public to accept him as a leader who, largely through personality, could lead him through the post-1929 troubles (again, sort of like Trump).

    This is consistent with my memories of how FDR was thought of in the 1950s and 1960's: a leader who had saved the US from destruction in the 1930s and WW II. The Democratic party was no credited with that save: FDR (and, of course, America) was.

    Counterinsurgency
  86. @Bubba

    My guess: declining fear of Hell.
     
    Spot on as usual, Mr. Sailer. Spot on.

    Benjamin F. Morris in 1868 wrote The Christian Life and Character of the Civil Institutions of the United States. Well nigh time that this work again received serious study. The last sixty years have been an exercise in divorcing Christianity from American life. If nothing more, the reasonably catechized Christian (fearing the loss of heaven and the pains of hell) kept himself in line, thus freeing the state in large part from having to do so. No more … not in the 21st-century USA which was Christian and is now X-ian (but of course not X-ish). So now we’ll have to endure again those who gave us that “X” lecturing “prayers aren’t enough!” Wearisome.

  87. @education realist
    As I said on twitter, I disagree. I think the nationalization of media, which started roughly 50 years ago and has only increased the pace in the past 10-20 years, is what did it. Add to that the increase in forensic technology, making serial killing harder and harder to pull off.

    So the warped people group 1 who think killing people is desirable, will have little ability to kill a bunch of them unless they do a mass shooting. Then the warped people group 2, the people haters, the basically suicidal, the ones who want to be noticed, get more attention thanks to the media.

    But fear of hell? No way. Understand these are people who are almost certainly killing people because they want to be known after death. Would they want that if they didn't somewhere, underneath the conscious, believe in afterlife so they could enjoy it?

    I think the nationalization of media, which started roughly 50 years ago and has only increased the pace in the past 10-20 year

    “Nationalization”??

    WTF are you talking about.

    This is not France in the 70s.

    Most of the media are the gimp of hateful special interests and the people in this outfits have a lack of ethics that deserves punishment before God, but that’s not “nationalization”.

    • Replies: @education realist
    You appear to think you have a point.
    , @Autochthon
    I think, from the context of his writing, he means to refer to the phenomenon of events anywhere in the nation being covered by media at a national level. Thus, back in the day, if some monster was murdering people in Montana, chances are no one in Arkansas ever knew about it. Now, everyone, everywhere will know about it from the teevee and Interwebs ("Our top story tonight, a series of grisly murders continues to baffle police in Council Bluffs..."). This phenomenon was facilitated by the CBS Evening News with Ron Burgnndy; it wasn't as common early in the twentieth century, when local papers and radio stations covered local events. Sure, they'd all report on a war or a national election, but not on The Garlic Shooter.

    Telecommunications, better records and cooperation, and improved forensics, as he mentions, coincided with these changes kn media so that whereas before, a feller could kill a man with a sling blade and light out for Missouri to start a new life (people like Doc Holiday did this kind of thing all the time), nowadays the Man hunted you a lot more effectively and relentlessly – sometimes even internationally, So, being a serial killer on the down-low, moving on when the heat was closing in – all that is no longer very viable. So if your predisposed to kill a lot of people, you have to do it all at once, and probably sacrifice yourself in the process. And so on.

    I don't know that there is a concise term for the phenomenon I describe (and which I think he means), but you are correct that "nationalisation" is not it; that's to do with the government taking over the railroads and such.

  88. @advancedatheist

    Very few urban shooting homicides are ever solved
     
    So much for the trope in detective fiction that it takes an unusually intelligent criminal mastermind to commit the perfect murder, outwit the cops and escape unpunished. Plenty of dumbass urban blacks commit these perfect murders every year.

    Plenty of dumbass urban blacks …

    are feral, what with three quarters sired out of wedlock. Their situation has degenerated to the point of wildlife management. One recalls the drug sale discussion in Godfather I: “They’re animals anyway; let them lose their souls.” The legacy of the US government in those rapturous 1960s withholding welfare if the man was in the home, concurrent of course with the “separation of church and state” beginnings.

  89. LOL 8chan yanked off the Internet but cache provider (not security provider) 8chan because of hate and Christchurch:

    Security provider drops imageboard 8chan used to distribute El Paso & Christchurch manifestos

    Odds are people’s mind will be directed to the El Paso Walmart event, Dayton will be memory holed.

    Also, if you are going to DEFCON (fun) or Black Hat (commercial) in Las Vegas this week, prepare to be inspected:

    It’s Black Hat and DEF CON in Vegas this week. And yup, you know what that means. Hotel room searches for guns: Because it’s America, it’s 2019, and after more mass shootings, let alone Mandalay Bay, no one’s taking chances

    Quite a few guests bring firearms for the ever-popular DEF CON Shoot, an event out in the desert where attendees fire off everything from handguns to small artillery. Coordinator Deviant Ollam said that guns are (understandably) not allowed in rooms but can be checked into hotel secure storage so long as they are in their proper cases, although space is limited.

    Also, be advised that both the police and hotels seem to be keeping a close eye on social media during the show. So no “joke” tweets about violence or hacking please, or you may well find yourself in hot water

    • Replies: @Hippopotamusdrome


    LOL 8chan yanked off the Internet...because of hate and Christchurch

     

    Looks like Twitter will be next because of Ohio...


    Connor Betts: Twitter Posts on Being a Leftist, Guns

    wrote that he would happily vote for Democrat Elizabeth Warren, praised Satan, was upset about the 2016 presidential election results, and added, “I want socialism, and i’ll not wait for the idiots to finally come round to understanding.

    #selfie4satan #HailSatan @SatanTweeting

    He also liked tweets referencing the El Paso mass shooting in the hours before Dayton

    This is America: Guns on every corner, guns in every house, no freedom but that to kill

    #2016ElectionIn3Words This is bad

    Kill every fascist

    if you nominate anyone other than sanders, you’re going to lose

    He shared posts about “concentration camps” at the border and wrote, “Cut the fences down. Slice ICE tires

     

    RIP Twitter, it was good wile it lasted. Ruined by just one crazy Bernie supporter.
  90. @shordy
    Rising above the din, a Transgender's take on "Racism"...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=4&v=lNKj5Xh78wM

    Blind Becky: “I am racist … I profit from capitalism which was built on slavery and racism”.

    Is this real?

    So I hear YouTube demonized, sorry de-monit-ized, this channel.

    Do employees at YouTube keep a ballgag in their pocket, to be used when the Big Colored Person comes in to signal appropriate submissiveness?

  91. @Anon
    Black teens commit violence all the time, which the media ignores. When whites do it (though much less often), the media goes bananas. When goes to show you that at heart, the media still thinks whites are much more important to write about than blacks.

    Black teens commit violence all the time, which the media ignores.

    Well, duh. Dog-bites-man.

    Mass coverage is evidence for a phenomenon’s rarity. The lack thereof is evidence of its ubiquity.

    • Replies: @Counterinsurgency

    Mass coverage is evidence for a phenomenon’s rarity. The lack thereof is evidence of its ubiquity.
     
    Nice try. By this logic, all Blacks are Republicans, since Black Republicans are not much mentioned in the news.

    That's why absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

    Counterinsurgency
    , @J.Ross
    Canadian and British radio news carries every detail of an American mass shooting perpetrated by a white man as an absolute top story. I've never heard them talk about Chicago gang violence or Muslim rape gangs.
  92. @PiltdownMan

    You are clearly someone ...
     
    I see.

    You are clearly someone …

    I see.

    Scrawl your number on my wall
    and maybe you will get a call from me…

  93. I really detest the conceptualization of religion as encouraging being good because of fear of punishment by some father-god-in-the-sky. This is a very low level of moral reasoning anyway.

    I think we have an epidemic of mass homicide just as we have an epidemic of suicide. Young men seem overwhelmingly more vulnerable in this regard. I’d also say a likely reason for the common use of antidepressants is that these guys didn’t have much in the way of a normal, healthy childhood. There is an underlying preexisting problem. The Cruz in Fl and the Crusius in Tx never fit in successfully.

    Medicating the symptoms isn’t working and I wouldn’t get into if the meds made them worse unless and until a specific form of brain damage can be demonstrated. The behavior is fairly similar among the males who are the typical culprits. I’d look into developmental milestones like learning to be assertive versus aggressive. These guys seem to have missed out on things like sports or scouting. Structure and discipline also tend to be factors in such cases. Back in the day, males with behavior issues often ended up in military schools. Seems icky to put boys in uniforms and make em march but I like this option better than pharmaceuticals.

    Essentially, I’m on the nurture versus the nature side of the debate when it comes to suggesting kid’s brains are all that different from kids just a generation or two ago. We have environmental toxins now but we had different and maybe worse toxins years ago. The circumstances at school and at home are quite different now and the job market even more so.

    Just imagine a kid who isn’t smart enough or rich enough to get a master’s degree or a law degree but doesn’t realize he needs marketable skills asap because he’s not going to qualify to go 10s of thousands of dollars into debt to get a spiffy career which will then dig him out of debt. So unlike the top quarter of his high school class he can’t take impractical courses that lead to delay of adult responsibility.

    • Replies: @anon
    "I really detest the conceptualization of religion as encouraging being good because of fear of punishment by some father-god-in-the-sky. This is a very low level of moral reasoning anyway."

    I completely agree, because if the people today are who gets to go to heaven , I would rather go to hell. I just couldn't imagine spending eternity with Muslims,, Jews, Christians, HIndus and Al Sharpton.

  94. @AnotherDad
    Lack of fear of hell is a part but just one thread. The entire garment is the breakdown of connection and purpose. Modernity, prosperity, science were always going to be a challenge to manage--modernity really needs to be accompanied with eugenics--but the atomization has amplified through the roof by the destruction of minoritarianism.

    Tight tribal communities can survive because they cultivate their own social world for their members. Think Orthodox Jews or the Amish or the Mormons. Not perfection, and certainly doesn't work for all their members, but ... they've got something. But the minoritarian wrecking ball has smashed up the operation of normal majority community going about its busiess in its culture--as it was very much intended to.

    What does a typical white gentile boy face? Anomie.
    -- Their culture which is supposed to be the common culture ... is common no more.
    -- Christianity is no longer normative--is under assault as a public cultural force--and may not be in their life at all.
    -- Their race, the heritage their inherited under constant assualt--nothing to be proud of, but rather something they are supposed to apologize for.
    -- Their labor is surplus. Even if they are smart, the "nation of immigrants" people think some Indian or Chinese is entitled to their job--studying in the universities, with the technology, in the companies their ancestors built. And if they are not so smart ... a Mexican can provide muscle cheaper with less lip.
    -- His own family may well be a mess--perhaps just because of his parents genes, but the likelyhood jacked up by feminism, easy divorce, and the nation's social and cultural breakdown.
    -- Their women--the girls they should marry and have families with ... are theirs no more. The girls are you-go-girling on their own jobs. They are taught by Hollyweird, the schools, the whole culture to be sluts, and if a boy doesn't have alpha skills ... they aren't slutting with him. Even if he's solid enough to have a good job ... he gets shitty slut 2nds. If he's un/under-employed exposed to the world labor market or he's just socially awkward ... forget about it.

    Basically America is no longer a nation with a people and culture he is part of. America is just a market place for the "global cosmopolitans" to exploit. And his market value in that market place is ... loser!

    F' y'all. Bang, bang, bang.

    — Their women–the girls they should marry and have families with … are theirs no more. The girls are you-go-girling on their own jobs. They are taught by Hollyweird, the schools, the whole culture to be sluts, and if a boy doesn’t have alpha skills … they aren’t slutting with him. Even if he’s solid enough to have a good job … he gets shitty slut 2nds. If he’s un/under-employed exposed to the world labor market or he’s just socially awkward … forget about it.

    Guess what, AnotherDad, the fact that a girl has a job doesn’t mean a man can’t court and marry her.

    The longer you all pretend not to understand this, the more I tend to agree with the assessment that men just really don’t want a competent women, they want a helpless dependent to lord it over. Sounds harsh, but I’m just calling it like I see it.

    • Agree: Bardon Kaldian
    • Replies: @bomag

    ...the more I tend to agree with the assessment that men just really don’t want a competent women, they want a helpless dependent to lord it over
     
    Frontier/homesteader women were quite capable and did prodigious quantities of work; they produced some of the strongest family bonds of any time.

    But when their efforts are directed towards slutting and you-go-girl jobs, not so much.
    , @Rosie

    he gets shitty slut 2nds
     
    Because women are merchandise.

    Men view women like they do cars. At least, men around here do. I am sad to say I have a much more negative attitude towards men than I did before I started posting here.

    https://www.carsdirect.com/used-car-prices/why-does-a-new-car-lose-value-after-its-driven-off-the-lot

    , @The Anti-Gnostic
    The best contribution that all but the highest g women can make to society is to marry well and homeschool their children. The notion of "careers" for women (which 99% of them will not have, just like most men) is one of the most pernicious in human history. A society that puts prospective spouses in head-to-head economic competition with each other is not showing up for the future.

    I can qualify that: women have always worked outside the home and divorces, deaths and other tragedies can happen. So it's probably a good idea for your daughter to get a college degree and be prepared to enter the workforce if necessary. But what is being sold is jobs as status markers for women, and an end in themselves. Since women marry up, not down, this modern experiment ends with more unhappy women and men.
    , @Mr. Anon
    There is a lot of propaganda directed at women today that men are unimportant - mere fashion accessories - or are even simply "the enemy". Women are also told that thier career is the most important thing in life, even to the exclusion of family.

    Do you think this not to be the case? How exactly do you explain the messages transmitted by the mass media to an audience of women? And do you think it has no effect?
    , @TWS
    No they can't or won't. Not sure if there's a big difference at this point. Women can choose to prioritize family or work. You can't serve two masters. Right now they're choosing playing the field and work until... well until they're past their best-by date.
    , @Alec Leamas (hard at work)

    Guess what, AnotherDad, the fact that a girl has a job doesn’t mean a man can’t court and marry her.

    The longer you all pretend not to understand this, the more I tend to agree with the assessment that men just really don’t want a competent women, they want a helpless dependent to lord it over. Sounds harsh, but I’m just calling it like I see it.
     
    What it does mean is that the girl will be less open to being courted, especially in her years of prime beauty and fertility.

    The issue is much more often that what is on offer in most cases is incompetent, debt-laden, been-around-the-block twice messes who don't make much in compensation to constitute a significant premium over the costs of child care. Women with hang ups born of imitating a caricature of men. Women who are used to acting like assh*les as a socio-political statement.

    And you could perhaps have some kind of point about female empowerment and well-being - if repeated studies weren't showing that this is making women themselves much less happy. If middle class women weren't getting pumped through with psychotropic medications and other pharmaceutical intoxicants to make life just bearable enough to keep going for another day.
  95. @Brás Cubas
    What about Muslims? How do they fit in your theory? Are radical Muslims supposed to be less afraid of Hell than moderate ones?

    Muhammad did say that those who died fighting the infidel would go straight to Paradise, without even having to wait in the grave (apparently uncomfortable) for Judgment Day.

  96. @AnotherDad
    Lack of fear of hell is a part but just one thread. The entire garment is the breakdown of connection and purpose. Modernity, prosperity, science were always going to be a challenge to manage--modernity really needs to be accompanied with eugenics--but the atomization has amplified through the roof by the destruction of minoritarianism.

    Tight tribal communities can survive because they cultivate their own social world for their members. Think Orthodox Jews or the Amish or the Mormons. Not perfection, and certainly doesn't work for all their members, but ... they've got something. But the minoritarian wrecking ball has smashed up the operation of normal majority community going about its busiess in its culture--as it was very much intended to.

    What does a typical white gentile boy face? Anomie.
    -- Their culture which is supposed to be the common culture ... is common no more.
    -- Christianity is no longer normative--is under assault as a public cultural force--and may not be in their life at all.
    -- Their race, the heritage their inherited under constant assualt--nothing to be proud of, but rather something they are supposed to apologize for.
    -- Their labor is surplus. Even if they are smart, the "nation of immigrants" people think some Indian or Chinese is entitled to their job--studying in the universities, with the technology, in the companies their ancestors built. And if they are not so smart ... a Mexican can provide muscle cheaper with less lip.
    -- His own family may well be a mess--perhaps just because of his parents genes, but the likelyhood jacked up by feminism, easy divorce, and the nation's social and cultural breakdown.
    -- Their women--the girls they should marry and have families with ... are theirs no more. The girls are you-go-girling on their own jobs. They are taught by Hollyweird, the schools, the whole culture to be sluts, and if a boy doesn't have alpha skills ... they aren't slutting with him. Even if he's solid enough to have a good job ... he gets shitty slut 2nds. If he's un/under-employed exposed to the world labor market or he's just socially awkward ... forget about it.

    Basically America is no longer a nation with a people and culture he is part of. America is just a market place for the "global cosmopolitans" to exploit. And his market value in that market place is ... loser!

    F' y'all. Bang, bang, bang.

    The miracle then is that there are so few mass shootings.

  97. @Brás Cubas
    What about Muslims? How do they fit in your theory? Are radical Muslims supposed to be less afraid of Hell than moderate ones?

    Their doctrine tells them that martyrs go to heaven.
    So long as you kill the ‘right’ people, in the ‘right’ cause, and die doing so, then …

  98. @Hypnotoad666

    Or it could be that they do some good for 20% of the people who use them and make 1% worse?
     
    One theory is that SSRIs increase the risk of suicide because they give some depressed people just enough initiative to stop procrastinating and finally get around to killing themselves.

    If true, I suppose the same phenomenon could apply to the homicidal as well.

    It's interesting, though, that our culture is fascinated with "profiling" serial killers. But nobody seems to have much of an idea what makes these mass shooters do what they do.

    They ‘don’t know’ because they’re pointedly uninterested in knowing.

  99. @AnotherDad
    Lack of fear of hell is a part but just one thread. The entire garment is the breakdown of connection and purpose. Modernity, prosperity, science were always going to be a challenge to manage--modernity really needs to be accompanied with eugenics--but the atomization has amplified through the roof by the destruction of minoritarianism.

    Tight tribal communities can survive because they cultivate their own social world for their members. Think Orthodox Jews or the Amish or the Mormons. Not perfection, and certainly doesn't work for all their members, but ... they've got something. But the minoritarian wrecking ball has smashed up the operation of normal majority community going about its busiess in its culture--as it was very much intended to.

    What does a typical white gentile boy face? Anomie.
    -- Their culture which is supposed to be the common culture ... is common no more.
    -- Christianity is no longer normative--is under assault as a public cultural force--and may not be in their life at all.
    -- Their race, the heritage their inherited under constant assualt--nothing to be proud of, but rather something they are supposed to apologize for.
    -- Their labor is surplus. Even if they are smart, the "nation of immigrants" people think some Indian or Chinese is entitled to their job--studying in the universities, with the technology, in the companies their ancestors built. And if they are not so smart ... a Mexican can provide muscle cheaper with less lip.
    -- His own family may well be a mess--perhaps just because of his parents genes, but the likelyhood jacked up by feminism, easy divorce, and the nation's social and cultural breakdown.
    -- Their women--the girls they should marry and have families with ... are theirs no more. The girls are you-go-girling on their own jobs. They are taught by Hollyweird, the schools, the whole culture to be sluts, and if a boy doesn't have alpha skills ... they aren't slutting with him. Even if he's solid enough to have a good job ... he gets shitty slut 2nds. If he's un/under-employed exposed to the world labor market or he's just socially awkward ... forget about it.

    Basically America is no longer a nation with a people and culture he is part of. America is just a market place for the "global cosmopolitans" to exploit. And his market value in that market place is ... loser!

    F' y'all. Bang, bang, bang.

    That’s pretty good, and I suspect, pretty much on the money.

  100. @Rosie

    — Their women–the girls they should marry and have families with … are theirs no more. The girls are you-go-girling on their own jobs. They are taught by Hollyweird, the schools, the whole culture to be sluts, and if a boy doesn’t have alpha skills … they aren’t slutting with him. Even if he’s solid enough to have a good job … he gets shitty slut 2nds. If he’s un/under-employed exposed to the world labor market or he’s just socially awkward … forget about it.
     
    Guess what, AnotherDad, the fact that a girl has a job doesn't mean a man can't court and marry her.

    The longer you all pretend not to understand this, the more I tend to agree with the assessment that men just really don't want a competent women, they want a helpless dependent to lord it over. Sounds harsh, but I'm just calling it like I see it.

    …the more I tend to agree with the assessment that men just really don’t want a competent women, they want a helpless dependent to lord it over

    Frontier/homesteader women were quite capable and did prodigious quantities of work; they produced some of the strongest family bonds of any time.

    But when their efforts are directed towards slutting and you-go-girl jobs, not so much.

  101. @Rosie

    — Their women–the girls they should marry and have families with … are theirs no more. The girls are you-go-girling on their own jobs. They are taught by Hollyweird, the schools, the whole culture to be sluts, and if a boy doesn’t have alpha skills … they aren’t slutting with him. Even if he’s solid enough to have a good job … he gets shitty slut 2nds. If he’s un/under-employed exposed to the world labor market or he’s just socially awkward … forget about it.
     
    Guess what, AnotherDad, the fact that a girl has a job doesn't mean a man can't court and marry her.

    The longer you all pretend not to understand this, the more I tend to agree with the assessment that men just really don't want a competent women, they want a helpless dependent to lord it over. Sounds harsh, but I'm just calling it like I see it.

    he gets shitty slut 2nds

    Because women are merchandise.

    Men view women like they do cars. At least, men around here do. I am sad to say I have a much more negative attitude towards men than I did before I started posting here.

    https://www.carsdirect.com/used-car-prices/why-does-a-new-car-lose-value-after-its-driven-off-the-lot

    • Agree: Sam Coulton
    • Troll: Desiderius
    • Replies: @Counterinsurgency

    Men view women like they do cars.
     
    Right you are. A few years back I remember reading that men think about women using the same part of their brain they use to think about property. Women think about men using the same part of their brain they used to think about children.
    True or not? Don't know, don't remember the reference. Plausible, though: standard multi-purpose use of the same structures, and standard re-purposing of pre-existing structures for new evolutionary roles: in this case, male provisioning in a primate species.

    This makes things a bit difficult for women, because men can either care for property or use it up, and it's difficult to tell which kind of property (long term capital or disposable income) the woman is regarded as. Not much fun when one of your "children" (boyfriend) turns out to regard you as disposable.

    For what it's worth, men don't like being thought of as children, either. Women have a cutout that eliminates deep affection for children after a certain age (beginning of puberty I'd guess), and that seems to be used during divorces and at other times (the Media archetype).

    But you either take what you can get or do without, men and women both.

    Counterinsurgency
    , @stillCARealist
    Rosie,

    It's only a few posters here who have all the resentment against women. Just put them on ignore and look for the interesting ones. There's some truly brilliant and intriguing ideas and facts popping up here all the time. If Steve himself were to speak disparagingly of women as such, then yes, I'd leave too. But he never does; he's careful to speak of feminism, bitterness, greed, etc. The idea of lost fear of Hell itself is not something other media is going to discuss honestly. Probably not even on an openly Christian site.

    Anyway, I'm taking a decent break from blogs for a while so that I can start the upcoming school year with more joy in my heart.

    Enjoy the rest of your summer.
    , @TWS
    And women view men as an ATM and an accessory all in one. So, women made this system, we had a different one that worked fine for a few thousand years, you want to try again?
    , @Whiskey
    The analogy is somewhat apt.

    News flash men do not like sharing unlike women who view it as validation of their mans sexiness.

    There is a story The Dead by iirc James Joyce about the resentment a husband has for his wife's long dead first lover.

    Again no man likes it.
  102. @Jake
    which is the reason that Reformed theology produces both large numbers of atheists - in reaction against it - and amoral monsters who believe that they are Elect no matter what they do.

    And entitled and self-righteous assholes!

  103. @Art Deco
    Very few urban shooting homicides are ever solved

    Clearance rate's about 90% outside the slums and about 30% inside the slums.

    Outside the slums murders are usually between family members or “significant others”. Unless they are mentally ill whites usually don’t go for the random violence.

  104. @Tiny Duck
    It looks white conservatives kill almost t of people

    Now do you folks understand why demographic change is necessary?

    So, Tiny, are you inferring non-whites aren’t people? Bad Duck, bad!

  105. Anonymous[191] • Disclaimer says:

    > Men view women like they do cars. At least, men around here do.

    No we don’t. Not those of us with beloved wives and daughters, anyway.

    • Replies: @Autochthon
    We resent the idea we have anything in common with Bruce Springsteen.

    https://youtu.be/jEJdfDD4dVg
  106. @Glaivester
    Mask and body armor do not necessarily translate to "wanted to get away." Might mean "wanted to go for as long as possible before getting killed."

    Body armor, yes. Mask, no. In all likelihood he just liked image with mask, he thought it looked cool.

  107. @Dan Hayes
    Hail:

    So contrary to Tyson's previous public persona. He has just beaten the sex charges. But this PC transgression will be much harder to beat.

    No, he’s trying to score points against handguns.

  108. @AnotherDad
    Lack of fear of hell is a part but just one thread. The entire garment is the breakdown of connection and purpose. Modernity, prosperity, science were always going to be a challenge to manage--modernity really needs to be accompanied with eugenics--but the atomization has amplified through the roof by the destruction of minoritarianism.

    Tight tribal communities can survive because they cultivate their own social world for their members. Think Orthodox Jews or the Amish or the Mormons. Not perfection, and certainly doesn't work for all their members, but ... they've got something. But the minoritarian wrecking ball has smashed up the operation of normal majority community going about its busiess in its culture--as it was very much intended to.

    What does a typical white gentile boy face? Anomie.
    -- Their culture which is supposed to be the common culture ... is common no more.
    -- Christianity is no longer normative--is under assault as a public cultural force--and may not be in their life at all.
    -- Their race, the heritage their inherited under constant assualt--nothing to be proud of, but rather something they are supposed to apologize for.
    -- Their labor is surplus. Even if they are smart, the "nation of immigrants" people think some Indian or Chinese is entitled to their job--studying in the universities, with the technology, in the companies their ancestors built. And if they are not so smart ... a Mexican can provide muscle cheaper with less lip.
    -- His own family may well be a mess--perhaps just because of his parents genes, but the likelyhood jacked up by feminism, easy divorce, and the nation's social and cultural breakdown.
    -- Their women--the girls they should marry and have families with ... are theirs no more. The girls are you-go-girling on their own jobs. They are taught by Hollyweird, the schools, the whole culture to be sluts, and if a boy doesn't have alpha skills ... they aren't slutting with him. Even if he's solid enough to have a good job ... he gets shitty slut 2nds. If he's un/under-employed exposed to the world labor market or he's just socially awkward ... forget about it.

    Basically America is no longer a nation with a people and culture he is part of. America is just a market place for the "global cosmopolitans" to exploit. And his market value in that market place is ... loser!

    F' y'all. Bang, bang, bang.

    That’s a good diagnosis for the people having trouble, but there are a lot more healthy people than you think (healthy because we have what you correctly identify as necessary).

    • Replies: @The Anti-Gnostic
    It doesn't take a lot of troubled people to sap trust and ruin public spaces for everybody. The healthy elite are withdrawing.

    The great betrayal of our elite is they will not preach what they practice. Instead, they preach uber tolerance and withdraw with their intact families from increasingly chaotic public spaces into a world of Amazon deliveries, concierge services, and time-share private jets.
    , @L Woods
    Yes, you have yours (you think; for now) — we get it.
  109. @Rosie

    — Their women–the girls they should marry and have families with … are theirs no more. The girls are you-go-girling on their own jobs. They are taught by Hollyweird, the schools, the whole culture to be sluts, and if a boy doesn’t have alpha skills … they aren’t slutting with him. Even if he’s solid enough to have a good job … he gets shitty slut 2nds. If he’s un/under-employed exposed to the world labor market or he’s just socially awkward … forget about it.
     
    Guess what, AnotherDad, the fact that a girl has a job doesn't mean a man can't court and marry her.

    The longer you all pretend not to understand this, the more I tend to agree with the assessment that men just really don't want a competent women, they want a helpless dependent to lord it over. Sounds harsh, but I'm just calling it like I see it.

    The best contribution that all but the highest g women can make to society is to marry well and homeschool their children. The notion of “careers” for women (which 99% of them will not have, just like most men) is one of the most pernicious in human history. A society that puts prospective spouses in head-to-head economic competition with each other is not showing up for the future.

    I can qualify that: women have always worked outside the home and divorces, deaths and other tragedies can happen. So it’s probably a good idea for your daughter to get a college degree and be prepared to enter the workforce if necessary. But what is being sold is jobs as status markers for women, and an end in themselves. Since women marry up, not down, this modern experiment ends with more unhappy women and men.

    • Replies: @Rosie

    The best contribution that all but the highest g women can make to society is to marry well and homeschool their children.
     
    They can't do that if men won't marry them.

    Since women marry up, not down, this modern experiment ends with more unhappy women and men.
     
    Ackshully, more and more women are marrying "down" educationally. They still prefer spouses who earn more, but that's not a problem, because men still outearn women. (Obviously, I don't consider that a problem.)
    , @Corvinus
    "The best contribution that all but the highest g women can make to society is to marry well and homeschool their children."

    Except your own wife is a career woman as a school teacher, you hypocrite.

    "The notion of “careers” for women (which 99% of them will not have, just like most men)..."

    What planet do you live on? Men and women observably have careers. You as an ambulance chaser can attest.

    "A society that puts prospective spouses in head-to-head economic competition with each other is not showing up for the future."

    Actually, it makes a society stronger.

    "Since women marry up, not down, this modern experiment ends with more unhappy women and men."

    Men and women marry up or down.
  110. @Desiderius
    That’s a good diagnosis for the people having trouble, but there are a lot more healthy people than you think (healthy because we have what you correctly identify as necessary).

    It doesn’t take a lot of troubled people to sap trust and ruin public spaces for everybody. The healthy elite are withdrawing.

    The great betrayal of our elite is they will not preach what they practice. Instead, they preach uber tolerance and withdraw with their intact families from increasingly chaotic public spaces into a world of Amazon deliveries, concierge services, and time-share private jets.

    • Replies: @Desiderius
    The elite (sic) aren’t the healthy ones.
  111. @El Dato
    LOL 8chan yanked off the Internet but cache provider (not security provider) 8chan because of hate and Christchurch:

    Security provider drops imageboard 8chan used to distribute El Paso & Christchurch manifestos

    Odds are people's mind will be directed to the El Paso Walmart event, Dayton will be memory holed.

    Also, if you are going to DEFCON (fun) or Black Hat (commercial) in Las Vegas this week, prepare to be inspected:

    It's Black Hat and DEF CON in Vegas this week. And yup, you know what that means. Hotel room searches for guns: Because it's America, it's 2019, and after more mass shootings, let alone Mandalay Bay, no one's taking chances

    Quite a few guests bring firearms for the ever-popular DEF CON Shoot, an event out in the desert where attendees fire off everything from handguns to small artillery. Coordinator Deviant Ollam said that guns are (understandably) not allowed in rooms but can be checked into hotel secure storage so long as they are in their proper cases, although space is limited.

    Also, be advised that both the police and hotels seem to be keeping a close eye on social media during the show. So no "joke" tweets about violence or hacking please, or you may well find yourself in hot water
     

    LOL 8chan yanked off the Internet…because of hate and Christchurch

    Looks like Twitter will be next because of Ohio…

    Connor Betts: Twitter Posts on Being a Leftist, Guns

    wrote that he would happily vote for Democrat Elizabeth Warren, praised Satan, was upset about the 2016 presidential election results, and added, “I want socialism, and i’ll not wait for the idiots to finally come round to understanding.

    #selfie4satan #HailSatan @SatanTweeting

    He also liked tweets referencing the El Paso mass shooting in the hours before Dayton

    This is America: Guns on every corner, guns in every house, no freedom but that to kill

    #2016ElectionIn3Words This is bad

    Kill every fascist

    if you nominate anyone other than sanders, you’re going to lose

    He shared posts about “concentration camps” at the border and wrote, “Cut the fences down. Slice ICE tires

    RIP Twitter, it was good wile it lasted. Ruined by just one crazy Bernie supporter.

  112. @Rosie

    — Their women–the girls they should marry and have families with … are theirs no more. The girls are you-go-girling on their own jobs. They are taught by Hollyweird, the schools, the whole culture to be sluts, and if a boy doesn’t have alpha skills … they aren’t slutting with him. Even if he’s solid enough to have a good job … he gets shitty slut 2nds. If he’s un/under-employed exposed to the world labor market or he’s just socially awkward … forget about it.
     
    Guess what, AnotherDad, the fact that a girl has a job doesn't mean a man can't court and marry her.

    The longer you all pretend not to understand this, the more I tend to agree with the assessment that men just really don't want a competent women, they want a helpless dependent to lord it over. Sounds harsh, but I'm just calling it like I see it.

    There is a lot of propaganda directed at women today that men are unimportant – mere fashion accessories – or are even simply “the enemy”. Women are also told that thier career is the most important thing in life, even to the exclusion of family.

    Do you think this not to be the case? How exactly do you explain the messages transmitted by the mass media to an audience of women? And do you think it has no effect?

    • Replies: @Rosie

    Do you think this not to be the case? How exactly do you explain the messages transmitted by the mass media to an audience of women? And do you think it has no effect?
     
    If I understand you correctly, you're saying that men should presume that women who have careers won't care about their family, should they ever have one. That's asinine, of course. Talk to any woman (like your mom, for instance) about how having a child changes their priorities and get back to me.
  113. @Steve Sailer
    FDR was an Establishment figure, the Dems' VP candidate in 1920, although his career was sidetracked by polio in 1921.

    FDR was an Establishment figure, the Dems’ VP candidate in 1920, although his career was sidetracked by polio in 1921.

    Right, and Democratic Governor of NY State in 1929.

    Nevertheless, Schivelbusch makes a good case that FDR was not establishment.

    FDR was a bit of a maverick. With his patrician background, he should have been a Republican. At the same time, he wasn’t a political organization man. It marked him as someone out of the ordinary for his party (sort of like Trump in that respect) and his class, and gave him the visible independence from party and class needed for the public to accept him as a leader who, largely through personality, could lead him through the post-1929 troubles (again, sort of like Trump).

    This is consistent with my memories of how FDR was thought of in the 1950s and 1960’s: a leader who had saved the US from destruction in the 1930s and WW II. The Democratic party was no credited with that save: FDR (and, of course, America) was.

    Counterinsurgency

    • Replies: @Faraday's Bobcat

    FDR was a bit of a maverick. With his patrician background, he should have been a Republican. At the same time, he wasn’t a political organization man. It marked him as someone out of the ordinary for his party (sort of like Trump in that respect) and his class, and gave him the visible independence from party and class needed for the public to accept him as a leader who, largely through personality, could lead him through the post-1929 troubles (again, sort of like Trump).
     
    FDR and Trump are similar in many ways. Rich kids from New York, strong personalities, don't read much, shaky on the facts and details, "directionally correct," opportunists, little respect for established procedures...
    , @Sam Malone
    Thanks for the book recommendation.
  114. @Reg Cæsar

    Black teens commit violence all the time, which the media ignores.
     
    Well, duh. Dog-bites-man.

    Mass coverage is evidence for a phenomenon's rarity. The lack thereof is evidence of its ubiquity.

    Mass coverage is evidence for a phenomenon’s rarity. The lack thereof is evidence of its ubiquity.

    Nice try. By this logic, all Blacks are Republicans, since Black Republicans are not much mentioned in the news.

    That’s why absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

    Counterinsurgency

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    It works in my example. Black crime is ubiquitous, and played down, even unmentioned outside the near vicinity of its occurance.

    For blacks. Not for Tibetan-American crime, of course, should any exist.
  115. @Rosie

    he gets shitty slut 2nds
     
    Because women are merchandise.

    Men view women like they do cars. At least, men around here do. I am sad to say I have a much more negative attitude towards men than I did before I started posting here.

    https://www.carsdirect.com/used-car-prices/why-does-a-new-car-lose-value-after-its-driven-off-the-lot

    Men view women like they do cars.

    Right you are. A few years back I remember reading that men think about women using the same part of their brain they use to think about property. Women think about men using the same part of their brain they used to think about children.
    True or not? Don’t know, don’t remember the reference. Plausible, though: standard multi-purpose use of the same structures, and standard re-purposing of pre-existing structures for new evolutionary roles: in this case, male provisioning in a primate species.

    This makes things a bit difficult for women, because men can either care for property or use it up, and it’s difficult to tell which kind of property (long term capital or disposable income) the woman is regarded as. Not much fun when one of your “children” (boyfriend) turns out to regard you as disposable.

    For what it’s worth, men don’t like being thought of as children, either. Women have a cutout that eliminates deep affection for children after a certain age (beginning of puberty I’d guess), and that seems to be used during divorces and at other times (the Media archetype).

    But you either take what you can get or do without, men and women both.

    Counterinsurgency

    • Replies: @Counterinsurgency
    Media

    Sorry, should have read "Medea" (https://www.ancient.eu/medea/).

    Counterinsurgency
  116. @Desiderius
    That’s a good diagnosis for the people having trouble, but there are a lot more healthy people than you think (healthy because we have what you correctly identify as necessary).

    Yes, you have yours (you think; for now) — we get it.

    • Replies: @Desiderius
    No, you don’t. What I have is modest. I’m talking about my whole area/country.
  117. @mikeInThe716
    The hearing protection angle is interesting. The few times I've fired a long gun without hearing protection were notably stunning. But I don't recall if my hearing was temporarily impaired enough to not hear a blind side approach. Especially with multiple rounds fired from an AR or AK. (I was in the army infantry 88-92)

    Is a shooter with such a rifle more susceptible to a blind side tackle with or without ear protection? Is contemplating such a thing 99% suicidal? 50%?

    Is a shooter with such a rifle more susceptible to a blind side tackle with or without ear protection?

    Contemporary hearing protectors can be purchased that have an electronic cutout so that you have amplified hearing _except_ during loud noises. These are sold for hunting, when it is important to hear what’s going on around you.

    Counterinsurgency

  118. Because women are merchandise.

    Men view women like they do cars. At least, men around here do.

    In some cases, sure, but I don’t think the majority of posters here are Clintonesque in their approach to women. It’s not out of bounds to hope to land an attractive female, just as it isn’t for a woman to want a man with a high-powered career and the money that comes with it.

  119. @Russ

    But fear of hell? No way. Understand these are people who are almost certainly killing people because they want to be known after death.
     
    There have been so many of these incidents that you can scarcely tell one from another anymore, just as you can scarcely tell one astronaut from another anymore (save that none are in the Armstrong/Aldrin class). These shooters are too intellectually decrepit to understand that there is no real fame to be had from the act any longer, and too morally decrepit to fathom eternal consequences for such dire acts. The decrepitude does not discriminate.

    there is no real fame to be had from the act any longer

    I’d say plenty; and people will do a lot for a little scrap of fame.

    Much of this coincides with modern media; notice a recent shooter streamed the event.

    And humans have always had a penchant for massacre.

  120. @AnotherDad
    Lack of fear of hell is a part but just one thread. The entire garment is the breakdown of connection and purpose. Modernity, prosperity, science were always going to be a challenge to manage--modernity really needs to be accompanied with eugenics--but the atomization has amplified through the roof by the destruction of minoritarianism.

    Tight tribal communities can survive because they cultivate their own social world for their members. Think Orthodox Jews or the Amish or the Mormons. Not perfection, and certainly doesn't work for all their members, but ... they've got something. But the minoritarian wrecking ball has smashed up the operation of normal majority community going about its busiess in its culture--as it was very much intended to.

    What does a typical white gentile boy face? Anomie.
    -- Their culture which is supposed to be the common culture ... is common no more.
    -- Christianity is no longer normative--is under assault as a public cultural force--and may not be in their life at all.
    -- Their race, the heritage their inherited under constant assualt--nothing to be proud of, but rather something they are supposed to apologize for.
    -- Their labor is surplus. Even if they are smart, the "nation of immigrants" people think some Indian or Chinese is entitled to their job--studying in the universities, with the technology, in the companies their ancestors built. And if they are not so smart ... a Mexican can provide muscle cheaper with less lip.
    -- His own family may well be a mess--perhaps just because of his parents genes, but the likelyhood jacked up by feminism, easy divorce, and the nation's social and cultural breakdown.
    -- Their women--the girls they should marry and have families with ... are theirs no more. The girls are you-go-girling on their own jobs. They are taught by Hollyweird, the schools, the whole culture to be sluts, and if a boy doesn't have alpha skills ... they aren't slutting with him. Even if he's solid enough to have a good job ... he gets shitty slut 2nds. If he's un/under-employed exposed to the world labor market or he's just socially awkward ... forget about it.

    Basically America is no longer a nation with a people and culture he is part of. America is just a market place for the "global cosmopolitans" to exploit. And his market value in that market place is ... loser!

    F' y'all. Bang, bang, bang.

    Absolutely spot on.

  121. anon[114] • Disclaimer says:
    @miss marple
    I really detest the conceptualization of religion as encouraging being good because of fear of punishment by some father-god-in-the-sky. This is a very low level of moral reasoning anyway.

    I think we have an epidemic of mass homicide just as we have an epidemic of suicide. Young men seem overwhelmingly more vulnerable in this regard. I'd also say a likely reason for the common use of antidepressants is that these guys didn't have much in the way of a normal, healthy childhood. There is an underlying preexisting problem. The Cruz in Fl and the Crusius in Tx never fit in successfully.

    Medicating the symptoms isn't working and I wouldn't get into if the meds made them worse unless and until a specific form of brain damage can be demonstrated. The behavior is fairly similar among the males who are the typical culprits. I'd look into developmental milestones like learning to be assertive versus aggressive. These guys seem to have missed out on things like sports or scouting. Structure and discipline also tend to be factors in such cases. Back in the day, males with behavior issues often ended up in military schools. Seems icky to put boys in uniforms and make em march but I like this option better than pharmaceuticals.

    Essentially, I'm on the nurture versus the nature side of the debate when it comes to suggesting kid's brains are all that different from kids just a generation or two ago. We have environmental toxins now but we had different and maybe worse toxins years ago. The circumstances at school and at home are quite different now and the job market even more so.

    Just imagine a kid who isn't smart enough or rich enough to get a master's degree or a law degree but doesn't realize he needs marketable skills asap because he's not going to qualify to go 10s of thousands of dollars into debt to get a spiffy career which will then dig him out of debt. So unlike the top quarter of his high school class he can't take impractical courses that lead to delay of adult responsibility.

    “I really detest the conceptualization of religion as encouraging being good because of fear of punishment by some father-god-in-the-sky. This is a very low level of moral reasoning anyway.”

    I completely agree, because if the people today are who gets to go to heaven , I would rather go to hell. I just couldn’t imagine spending eternity with Muslims,, Jews, Christians, HIndus and Al Sharpton.

  122. @Anonymous
    There is also the little-known fact that most of the school shootings are committed by teens who were on or who recently stopped taking anti-depressants. SSRIs can cause homicidal or suicidal behavior, especially in teens.

    There is also the little-known fact that most of the school shootings are committed by teens who were on or who recently stopped taking anti-depressants. SSRIs can cause homicidal or suicidal behavior, especially in teens.

    I strongly suspect that’s true, but calling it a “fact” may be premature. Do we have any actual evidence for that? It seems true, I’ll grant, and I suspect it probably is. But some actual evidence would be helpful.

    • Agree: Dissident
    • Replies: @Almost Missouri
    Getting an actual survey or study of school shootings and SSRI usage is complicated by the fact that there is a dishonesty at the root of the school shooting narrative. The news stories of "school shootings" are only the cases of a (usually white or Asian) student going on a semi-psychotic rampage for no pragmatic purpose. And these may very well have an SSRI component. But these are only a small fraction of actual statistics of "school shootings", which are mostly by shooters of color in vibrant neighborhoods who are shooting in the cause of gang activity, drug trade enforcement, avenging some ghetto vendetta, or a combination thereof. The news media assiduously does not cover these cases, except under the rubric of passive-voice moral-agency-free "gun violence" in the service of the narrative that Deplorables must be disarmed.

    So an attempt to correlate the former type of shootings with SSRI use has to find a way to filter out the majority of the statistics to get at the cases that people think of for "school shootings". The obvious way is to filter by race, but of course that would immediately be denounced as "racist" and get the study's author banned from the academy.
  123. @Brás Cubas
    What about Muslims? How do they fit in your theory? Are radical Muslims supposed to be less afraid of Hell than moderate ones?

    Are radical Muslims supposed to be less afraid of Hell than moderate ones?

    Fighters for Islam have, since the AD 700s, been recruited largely from social outcasts who are told of one last chance to get to Paradise by fighting physically for Allah. Same with the very religious. Great way to recruit irregular fighters, BTW. Selects people who are going to die anyway and have some experience with living rough without social support. Produces fighters who need very little logistic support and are very tenacious. On the whole, low intensity border wars tend to be a net plus for Islamic societies. Troublemakers vanish from the interior, show up at the borders. Resulting unmatched women are taken into harems.

    Organized forces are expensive, and don’t tend to do that well against irregulars anyway. You tend to get extensive ungoverned zones populated by expendable and highly motivated irregulars. Clearing such an area with conventional forces is like clearing a house of hornets with a flyswatter; you’d have to get the nest to get the hornets, and the nest if not in the ungoverned zone.

    So: Islamic fighters are, perhaps, more afraid of Hell than most people, and go well out of their way to avoid it.

    Counterinsurgency

    • Replies: @Brás Cubas
    In other words, Sailer's theory fails.
  124. @kyle
    This is disingenuous. There’s no need to guess at motivation, the El Paso shooter outlined his motivations very clearly. He said that he hates Hispanics and wants to end immigration into Texas. Apparently the mall he attacked was a popular shopping destination for Mexican tourists. The Dayton shooter was nominally a Democrat but I suspect he blew a fuse for the same reason. He had never learned a marketable skill by the age of 24, he worked at chipotle, and he took some worthless community college courses. He knew he was a worthless POS, and the megaphone constantly tells him he is. He offed his sister and the boyfriend first although I think the boyfriend actually survived. Most of the dead are African American which is telling. In 2019 young white men are committing mass terrorism. Many of them have no criminal records so this won’t be solved with a tough on crime approach. These antisocial kids should be in the military, and we need to put microchips in guns.

    He had never learned a marketable skill by the age of 24, he worked at chipotle, and he took some worthless community college courses. He knew he was a worthless POS, and the megaphone constantly tells him he is.

    we need to put microchips in guns.

    Think about the above.
    1) The American establishment has gone to considerable lengths to ensure that young men have vastly diminished chance to get a job.
    2) The answer is to disarm them.

    What’s part 3? Kill them?

    Counterinsurgency

  125. @AnotherDad
    Lack of fear of hell is a part but just one thread. The entire garment is the breakdown of connection and purpose. Modernity, prosperity, science were always going to be a challenge to manage--modernity really needs to be accompanied with eugenics--but the atomization has amplified through the roof by the destruction of minoritarianism.

    Tight tribal communities can survive because they cultivate their own social world for their members. Think Orthodox Jews or the Amish or the Mormons. Not perfection, and certainly doesn't work for all their members, but ... they've got something. But the minoritarian wrecking ball has smashed up the operation of normal majority community going about its busiess in its culture--as it was very much intended to.

    What does a typical white gentile boy face? Anomie.
    -- Their culture which is supposed to be the common culture ... is common no more.
    -- Christianity is no longer normative--is under assault as a public cultural force--and may not be in their life at all.
    -- Their race, the heritage their inherited under constant assualt--nothing to be proud of, but rather something they are supposed to apologize for.
    -- Their labor is surplus. Even if they are smart, the "nation of immigrants" people think some Indian or Chinese is entitled to their job--studying in the universities, with the technology, in the companies their ancestors built. And if they are not so smart ... a Mexican can provide muscle cheaper with less lip.
    -- His own family may well be a mess--perhaps just because of his parents genes, but the likelyhood jacked up by feminism, easy divorce, and the nation's social and cultural breakdown.
    -- Their women--the girls they should marry and have families with ... are theirs no more. The girls are you-go-girling on their own jobs. They are taught by Hollyweird, the schools, the whole culture to be sluts, and if a boy doesn't have alpha skills ... they aren't slutting with him. Even if he's solid enough to have a good job ... he gets shitty slut 2nds. If he's un/under-employed exposed to the world labor market or he's just socially awkward ... forget about it.

    Basically America is no longer a nation with a people and culture he is part of. America is just a market place for the "global cosmopolitans" to exploit. And his market value in that market place is ... loser!

    F' y'all. Bang, bang, bang.

    The entire garment is the breakdown of connection and purpose.

    The shooters did not suffer from any lack of purpose. They had a purpose to kill people, which they pursued with great gusto. James Holmes, in particular, could not have been more clear about this. Continuing to think of them as unfortunates who somehow fell through the cracks of society is just more liberal, bleeding heart, universalist nonsense. I guarantee you none of them thought of themselves that way. They would have pursued the same course of action no matter what, advantaged or disadvantaged.

    • Replies: @Almost Missouri

    "The shooters did not suffer from any lack of purpose. They had a purpose to kill people"
     
    Fair point, but I think AD meant "breakdown of purpose" as in "lack of a good purpose".

    "They would have pursued the same course of action no matter what, advantaged or disadvantaged."
     
    Would they though? Is this assuming facts not in evidence? After all, what has people alarmed is that these somewhat psycho killing sprees seem more common now than in the past, and if they are more common now, that means the perps are not eternally pursuing the same course of action no matter what.
  126. @Hypnotoad666
    I find the idea of Calvinism to be very appealing. Predestination is an absolutely brilliant theological innovation.

    God already knows who you are and your fate in the afterlife is thetefore already settled. There is nothing you can do about.
    That seems like a very liberating creed.

    The astonishing thing, of course, is that the people who believed this didn't became fatalistic hedonists. Quite the opposite.

    A lot of that probably had to do with the Northern European culture and stock that they came from. But there must have also been some sort of psychological effect that comes from internalizing a belief that you are one of the elect, and then living up to that self-identity in this world.

    Predestination is an absolutely brilliant theological innovation…A lot of that probably had to do with the Northern European culture and stock

    With obvious differences in the details, doesn’t voodoo offer similar incentives? I.e. “the gods will decide” so there is no point in showing any initiative, gaining an education, etc because none of that will change the whims of various gods?

    Obv the differences between Northern Europeans and Haitians have led to differing approaches to the “nothing you can about it”.

  127. @Hypnotoad666
    I find the idea of Calvinism to be very appealing. Predestination is an absolutely brilliant theological innovation.

    God already knows who you are and your fate in the afterlife is thetefore already settled. There is nothing you can do about.
    That seems like a very liberating creed.

    The astonishing thing, of course, is that the people who believed this didn't became fatalistic hedonists. Quite the opposite.

    A lot of that probably had to do with the Northern European culture and stock that they came from. But there must have also been some sort of psychological effect that comes from internalizing a belief that you are one of the elect, and then living up to that self-identity in this world.

    So you think believers in predestination are like NT Jews then? God’s chosen people.

    Too bad so many of the old Hebrews weren’t actually “chosen” since God killed most of them off for their wickedness. There are wonderful descriptions of this throughout the OT. Start with Deuteronomy 28 for a good list of blessings and curses for keeping or breaking the covenant.

    So too these NT believers who consider themselves chosen and live in disobedience. They’re in a for a nasty surprise when they see the consequences of sin both now and in the future.

  128. @Rosie

    he gets shitty slut 2nds
     
    Because women are merchandise.

    Men view women like they do cars. At least, men around here do. I am sad to say I have a much more negative attitude towards men than I did before I started posting here.

    https://www.carsdirect.com/used-car-prices/why-does-a-new-car-lose-value-after-its-driven-off-the-lot

    Rosie,

    It’s only a few posters here who have all the resentment against women. Just put them on ignore and look for the interesting ones. There’s some truly brilliant and intriguing ideas and facts popping up here all the time. If Steve himself were to speak disparagingly of women as such, then yes, I’d leave too. But he never does; he’s careful to speak of feminism, bitterness, greed, etc. The idea of lost fear of Hell itself is not something other media is going to discuss honestly. Probably not even on an openly Christian site.

    Anyway, I’m taking a decent break from blogs for a while so that I can start the upcoming school year with more joy in my heart.

    Enjoy the rest of your summer.

  129. The Dayton shooter is now revealed to be a militant leftist who hated Trump, just like the guy who shot Congressman Scalise, and is on record admiring Willem van Spronsen, who attacked an ICE facility and was shot by agents defending it.
    So in other words there is a case to be made that constant mass media demonization combined with Justice Department inaction (!!!) can activate manchurians — and still no case at all to be made that 4chan has magical powers. So of course you can guess which one our decrepit boomer leadership will go after, hammer and tongs.
    It has to be said that they are blasting every pipe on the Mighty Wurlitzer twenty four hours a day and letting folks know that certain crimes will not be prosecuted — and with all that they’ve only moved about a dozen people to shoot. But 4chan is supposed to be far more influential than the Justice Department.
    (In fairness it looks like ths El Paso shooter may have been a white nationalist angry at government inaction on the mestizo invasion, though that’s not solid yet, and this would still put him in the minority.)

  130. I totally agree that the decline of religion (a decline that was socially engineered by the hostile elite) is one reason for the rise of degeneracy.

    However, I think that diversity is the main cause of conflict. Multiculturalism is an inherently violent ideology.

    Whites feel that Trump has failed so many whites have lost hope for the future.

  131. @Bubba

    My guess: declining fear of Hell.
     
    Spot on as usual, Mr. Sailer. Spot on.

    Exactly people “losing religion” has lead to a lot of bad behavior.

    However even very religious people have been known to commit great acts of evil. I mean when you look back at the history of wars many have been provoked by religious differences. Or maybe it was really these so called ethnic differences that were at the heart of them. Not sure…

    I guess mankind has an aversion to ‘difference’ and when it becomes too much, reacts. Kind of like lions killing off cubs that aren’t theirs or something like that. Primal reaction or some such.

  132. @The Alarmist
    We, as a society, make murder relatively pain-free for the murderer. If they don't fear Hell, they might fear being hanged, drawn and quartered, and let's do it publicly so that justice can be seen to be done.

    Well punishment was much worse in medieval times and people still murdered and went to war and committed horrible atrocities against civilians…

    Maybe war channels those overly aggressive individuals into ‘productive’ violence and when you don’t have those channels they go down that route anyway, but against their own so to speak.

    If we still had the draft many of these young men would have gone into the army, marines, navy and channeled their aggression that way. I often think of the Greek warrior Ajax who one night slaughtered a herd of sheep (I often thought they might have been talking about captive women). His act was so gruesome that even other warriors in the camp were horrified. But he was considered before that act to be just a normal Greek warrior.

  133. @El Dato

    I think the nationalization of media, which started roughly 50 years ago and has only increased the pace in the past 10-20 year
     
    "Nationalization"??

    WTF are you talking about.

    This is not France in the 70s.

    Most of the media are the gimp of hateful special interests and the people in this outfits have a lack of ethics that deserves punishment before God, but that's not "nationalization".

    You appear to think you have a point.

  134. @Bubba

    My guess: declining fear of Hell.
     
    Spot on as usual, Mr. Sailer. Spot on.

    So many of these are atheists or some variety of that. I think it’s almost a requirement that you believe there’s no punishment for your actions after your dead to commit atrocities like this.

  135. @education realist
    As I said on twitter, I disagree. I think the nationalization of media, which started roughly 50 years ago and has only increased the pace in the past 10-20 years, is what did it. Add to that the increase in forensic technology, making serial killing harder and harder to pull off.

    So the warped people group 1 who think killing people is desirable, will have little ability to kill a bunch of them unless they do a mass shooting. Then the warped people group 2, the people haters, the basically suicidal, the ones who want to be noticed, get more attention thanks to the media.

    But fear of hell? No way. Understand these are people who are almost certainly killing people because they want to be known after death. Would they want that if they didn't somewhere, underneath the conscious, believe in afterlife so they could enjoy it?

    Motivations for spree and serial killers are almost always unrelated. You’re comparing apples and orangutans.

  136. @Jake
    which is the reason that Reformed theology produces both large numbers of atheists - in reaction against it - and amoral monsters who believe that they are Elect no matter what they do.

    Yup.

  137. About hell. I have heard that near death, people who’ve been particularly mean and sinful feel as if they are burning. Really bad. It’s something they can’t help you with at the hospital. It is just awful, apparently, and medical staff can hear you howling and begging to be released from this awful fire. I guess, though, that most people near death are drugged up to the ears so they are “saved” from this. Until they actually die. FWIW.

    There’s also the case of Lenny Kravitz’s father, a real SOB, seeing horrid demonic creatures around his hospital bed. Sez Lenny, ”

    And he was in his bed one night and he looked at me, and he wasn’t on drugs, and he said to me, “There are these things flying around my bed, and these things crawling on the floor.” I said, “What are you talking about?” This is from my dad. He doesn’t do with any kind of spiritual thing. No heebie-jeebie kind of thing. And he’s, “There’s black-winged things and they’re flying around my bed… the things that are crawling on the ground, they look like they’re rats and they’re not… I see them.”

    So, maybe that’s hell. Some people from the far east think that hell is inability to move on in the spirit world, you are hanging around your earthly home trying to get people back in your physical home to help you through hauntings, etc. I don’t know anything either way.

    • Replies: @BB753
    Lenny Kravitz'dad was Jewish. I thought Jews didn't believe in hell.
  138. anon[189] • Disclaimer says:

    “My guess: declining fear of Hell.”

    Broadly speaking, perhaps. I would also suspect that not having anything to live for anymore also contributes; the United States isn’t the cohesive entity it once was. People once dreamed of going to Mars, but that’s all over now. White men no longer have anything productive to pour their energies into, so they pour them into worthless things like writing one third of Wikipedia and conspiracy theories. If they accomplish something, the Google doodle will replace them with non-whites; the credit for things they accomplished in the past is stolen (Hidden Figures) when it isn’t shamed (“you didn’t build that” — yes, we did) or banned as the left is advocating with classical music. What exactly do white men, disproportionately smarter and far more creative/artistic than most other groups, supposed to do with their time anymore, other than playing videogames or scoping social media for funny memes? We sure as hell aren’t going to Mars. They’d put a POC on the surface after we did much of the work, or they’d just rewrite the whole thing in a Hollywood movie to show a couple of sassy black women really did all the work.

    It’s been noticed that dogs, for example, are healthier when they are given tasks to accomplish. If left alone, their mental health and even physical health suffers. If white men are marginalized (as all people will eventually become thanks to AI) with nothing to do, nothing to fight for, nothing to be loyal to, then they have nothing to live for and might as well die. It may not be a coincidence that many of these guys died while going out in a blaze of glory aimed at accomplishing “something” … even stupid or nonsensical things: shooting synagogues to strike a blow against “the man”; an attempted antifa bombing of an immigration center on behalf of supposedly oppressed immigrants; a guy attacked an FBI building with a gun and was shot dead; the rep. Scalise shooting; stealing a fighter jet and crashing it … etc etc etc. I think this theory is supported by noting that many of these mass shooters seem to have nothing in common, not even political ideology, other than a desire to make their act part of a larger narrative that gives their lives meaning.

  139. @El Dato

    I think the nationalization of media, which started roughly 50 years ago and has only increased the pace in the past 10-20 year
     
    "Nationalization"??

    WTF are you talking about.

    This is not France in the 70s.

    Most of the media are the gimp of hateful special interests and the people in this outfits have a lack of ethics that deserves punishment before God, but that's not "nationalization".

    I think, from the context of his writing, he means to refer to the phenomenon of events anywhere in the nation being covered by media at a national level. Thus, back in the day, if some monster was murdering people in Montana, chances are no one in Arkansas ever knew about it. Now, everyone, everywhere will know about it from the teevee and Interwebs (“Our top story tonight, a series of grisly murders continues to baffle police in Council Bluffs…”). This phenomenon was facilitated by the CBS Evening News with Ron Burgnndy; it wasn’t as common early in the twentieth century, when local papers and radio stations covered local events. Sure, they’d all report on a war or a national election, but not on The Garlic Shooter.

    Telecommunications, better records and cooperation, and improved forensics, as he mentions, coincided with these changes kn media so that whereas before, a feller could kill a man with a sling blade and light out for Missouri to start a new life (people like Doc Holiday did this kind of thing all the time), nowadays the Man hunted you a lot more effectively and relentlessly – sometimes even internationally, So, being a serial killer on the down-low, moving on when the heat was closing in – all that is no longer very viable. So if your predisposed to kill a lot of people, you have to do it all at once, and probably sacrifice yourself in the process. And so on.

    I don’t know that there is a concise term for the phenomenon I describe (and which I think he means), but you are correct that “nationalisation” is not it; that’s to do with the government taking over the railroads and such.

    • Replies: @Art Deco
    You may be right up to a point. (My mother thought in her last years the media matrix had changed radically since the Depression and that people had lost a degree of serenity they once had). Pretty sure though, that Movietone News had human interest segments and Pathe may have as well. Also, you did have notorious figures whose exploits were reported coast-to-coast - Bonnie Parker and Clyde Barrow to name two, even though they hardly traveled outside of four states.
  140. @Hypnotoad666

    Or it could be that they do some good for 20% of the people who use them and make 1% worse?
     
    One theory is that SSRIs increase the risk of suicide because they give some depressed people just enough initiative to stop procrastinating and finally get around to killing themselves.

    If true, I suppose the same phenomenon could apply to the homicidal as well.

    It's interesting, though, that our culture is fascinated with "profiling" serial killers. But nobody seems to have much of an idea what makes these mass shooters do what they do.

    Wearing glasses seems to be a common factor for this bunch. Seriously, you have a valid point, we should be doing, (unadvertised) studies on this. No need to feed the beast.

  141. If God doesn’t exist, everything is allowed.

  142. @Desiderius
    Yeah, once they took the descending into hell out of the Apostles Creed that kind of killed some of the romance. I always enjoyed picturing Christ down there kicking ass and taking names making those three very long days for Satan before rising again from the Dead.

    https://youtu.be/YU9BObi1GVw

    Erm, when did they do that? That passage isn’t in the Nicene creed but I hadn’t hear of the Apostle’s Creed having been changed. Serious question.

    • Replies: @JMcG
    Pardon my misplaced apostrophe.
    , @Desiderius
    It’s likely apocryphal anyway. As with the deconstruction of the poetic King James, the quest for accuracy alone often plays out in a Brutalist manner.
  143. @Rosie

    — Their women–the girls they should marry and have families with … are theirs no more. The girls are you-go-girling on their own jobs. They are taught by Hollyweird, the schools, the whole culture to be sluts, and if a boy doesn’t have alpha skills … they aren’t slutting with him. Even if he’s solid enough to have a good job … he gets shitty slut 2nds. If he’s un/under-employed exposed to the world labor market or he’s just socially awkward … forget about it.
     
    Guess what, AnotherDad, the fact that a girl has a job doesn't mean a man can't court and marry her.

    The longer you all pretend not to understand this, the more I tend to agree with the assessment that men just really don't want a competent women, they want a helpless dependent to lord it over. Sounds harsh, but I'm just calling it like I see it.

    No they can’t or won’t. Not sure if there’s a big difference at this point. Women can choose to prioritize family or work. You can’t serve two masters. Right now they’re choosing playing the field and work until… well until they’re past their best-by date.

    • Replies: @Rosie

    Right now they’re choosing playing the field and work until… well until they’re past their best-by date.
     
    How do you know that? Obviously, a woman with no prospects for marriage is going to invest more in their careers, because they figure they're on their own.

    Do men want to get married in their early to mid-20s? If not, they shouldn't be surprised if women decide to focus on our careers.
  144. @Rosie

    he gets shitty slut 2nds
     
    Because women are merchandise.

    Men view women like they do cars. At least, men around here do. I am sad to say I have a much more negative attitude towards men than I did before I started posting here.

    https://www.carsdirect.com/used-car-prices/why-does-a-new-car-lose-value-after-its-driven-off-the-lot

    And women view men as an ATM and an accessory all in one. So, women made this system, we had a different one that worked fine for a few thousand years, you want to try again?

    • Replies: @S. Anonyia
    What are you talking about “different system?” Women in more traditional times were even more demanding that a man provide resources for her. When you have limited employment prospects and fewer legal rights, you are going to go for the richest (and probably most easygoing) man you can get.

    Also why 3rd world women are more mercenary than 1st world women.
  145. @JMcG
    Erm, when did they do that? That passage isn’t in the Nicene creed but I hadn’t hear of the Apostle’s Creed having been changed. Serious question.

    Pardon my misplaced apostrophe.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    Actually, it can be grammatically correct all three ways-- Apostles Creed, Apostle's Creed, Apostles' Creed. What does tradition say?

    If you're sensitive about apostrophical error, don't ever post from a Kindle on Silk. Bezos didn't learn the rules as a child. Or he's honoring greengrocers with improperly inserted ones.

    (I'm at the library. That's why the sentence before the last doesn't read Besos or Jesus. Kindle's autoincorrect is amazing at times.)
  146. @Mr. Anon
    I've heard SSRIs referred to as "don't-give-a-f**k" pills. Perhaps they suppress your depression by making you just not give a damn.

    I’ve heard SSRIs referred to as “don’t-give-a-f**k” pills. Perhaps they suppress your depression by making you just not give a damn.

    In polite circles it is called “emotional blunting” or “emotional detachment”.

    Psychopathy is a personality disorder characterized by a lack of empathy.

    People get upset when I point out that SSRIs increase psychopathy. Unfortunately, this is exactly what these drugs do. It is a well known fact that SSRIs decrease empathy. I call it chemically induced psychopathy.

    Another drug known to increase violence is Adderall. Adderall, dextroamphetamine or amphetamine salts, is a very popular drug, now available in chewable form for children. Adzenys, as the chewable, fruity medication is called, packs the punch of Adderall and is geared toward children with attention deficit hyperactivity disorder. Adderall is often prescribed to children and even toddlers. More than 1/3 of college student in America abuse Adderall. Anyone who has taken Adderall knows that “Adderall psychosis” and “Adderall rage” are very real. And very dangerous. A quick browse of the internet finds all sorts of murders, homicides and violence involving Adderall. Since WWII the U.S. Airforce has been feeding Adderall, nicknamed “Go Pills” to Pilots as part of a “fatigue management program”. I’ve read of people killing their children because of Adderall psychosis who have been acquitted by their juries. Adderall is almost indistinguishable from pharmaceutical methamphetamine.

    Adderall is America’s favorite amphetamine.

    Ask your pediatrician if Adderall is right for your toddler.

  147. @Rosie

    — Their women–the girls they should marry and have families with … are theirs no more. The girls are you-go-girling on their own jobs. They are taught by Hollyweird, the schools, the whole culture to be sluts, and if a boy doesn’t have alpha skills … they aren’t slutting with him. Even if he’s solid enough to have a good job … he gets shitty slut 2nds. If he’s un/under-employed exposed to the world labor market or he’s just socially awkward … forget about it.
     
    Guess what, AnotherDad, the fact that a girl has a job doesn't mean a man can't court and marry her.

    The longer you all pretend not to understand this, the more I tend to agree with the assessment that men just really don't want a competent women, they want a helpless dependent to lord it over. Sounds harsh, but I'm just calling it like I see it.

    Guess what, AnotherDad, the fact that a girl has a job doesn’t mean a man can’t court and marry her.

    The longer you all pretend not to understand this, the more I tend to agree with the assessment that men just really don’t want a competent women, they want a helpless dependent to lord it over. Sounds harsh, but I’m just calling it like I see it.

    What it does mean is that the girl will be less open to being courted, especially in her years of prime beauty and fertility.

    The issue is much more often that what is on offer in most cases is incompetent, debt-laden, been-around-the-block twice messes who don’t make much in compensation to constitute a significant premium over the costs of child care. Women with hang ups born of imitating a caricature of men. Women who are used to acting like assh*les as a socio-political statement.

    And you could perhaps have some kind of point about female empowerment and well-being – if repeated studies weren’t showing that this is making women themselves much less happy. If middle class women weren’t getting pumped through with psychotropic medications and other pharmaceutical intoxicants to make life just bearable enough to keep going for another day.

  148. @Autochthon
    I think, from the context of his writing, he means to refer to the phenomenon of events anywhere in the nation being covered by media at a national level. Thus, back in the day, if some monster was murdering people in Montana, chances are no one in Arkansas ever knew about it. Now, everyone, everywhere will know about it from the teevee and Interwebs ("Our top story tonight, a series of grisly murders continues to baffle police in Council Bluffs..."). This phenomenon was facilitated by the CBS Evening News with Ron Burgnndy; it wasn't as common early in the twentieth century, when local papers and radio stations covered local events. Sure, they'd all report on a war or a national election, but not on The Garlic Shooter.

    Telecommunications, better records and cooperation, and improved forensics, as he mentions, coincided with these changes kn media so that whereas before, a feller could kill a man with a sling blade and light out for Missouri to start a new life (people like Doc Holiday did this kind of thing all the time), nowadays the Man hunted you a lot more effectively and relentlessly – sometimes even internationally, So, being a serial killer on the down-low, moving on when the heat was closing in – all that is no longer very viable. So if your predisposed to kill a lot of people, you have to do it all at once, and probably sacrifice yourself in the process. And so on.

    I don't know that there is a concise term for the phenomenon I describe (and which I think he means), but you are correct that "nationalisation" is not it; that's to do with the government taking over the railroads and such.

    You may be right up to a point. (My mother thought in her last years the media matrix had changed radically since the Depression and that people had lost a degree of serenity they once had). Pretty sure though, that Movietone News had human interest segments and Pathe may have as well. Also, you did have notorious figures whose exploits were reported coast-to-coast – Bonnie Parker and Clyde Barrow to name two, even though they hardly traveled outside of four states.

  149. @TWS
    And women view men as an ATM and an accessory all in one. So, women made this system, we had a different one that worked fine for a few thousand years, you want to try again?

    What are you talking about “different system?” Women in more traditional times were even more demanding that a man provide resources for her. When you have limited employment prospects and fewer legal rights, you are going to go for the richest (and probably most easygoing) man you can get.

    Also why 3rd world women are more mercenary than 1st world women.

    • Replies: @TWS
    That was the agreement. Men provided the resources and women provided a home life. It was fair and worked.
  150. @Counterinsurgency

    Mass coverage is evidence for a phenomenon’s rarity. The lack thereof is evidence of its ubiquity.
     
    Nice try. By this logic, all Blacks are Republicans, since Black Republicans are not much mentioned in the news.

    That's why absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

    Counterinsurgency

    It works in my example. Black crime is ubiquitous, and played down, even unmentioned outside the near vicinity of its occurance.

    For blacks. Not for Tibetan-American crime, of course, should any exist.

  151. @Hypnotoad666
    I find the idea of Calvinism to be very appealing. Predestination is an absolutely brilliant theological innovation.

    God already knows who you are and your fate in the afterlife is thetefore already settled. There is nothing you can do about.
    That seems like a very liberating creed.

    The astonishing thing, of course, is that the people who believed this didn't became fatalistic hedonists. Quite the opposite.

    A lot of that probably had to do with the Northern European culture and stock that they came from. But there must have also been some sort of psychological effect that comes from internalizing a belief that you are one of the elect, and then living up to that self-identity in this world.

    Predestination seems to be the cousin of all those gloomy Germanic sagas where one’s destiny was unavoidable, and all the world is going to end one day anyway. Comes from the same impulse I think. What would be really weird would be if a tropical culture embraced predestination.

    • Replies: @LondonBob
    Not really, predestination was a means to explain how God knows what is going to happen already. Essentially God knows what we will do already even if we are still acting under free will, just read a bit of Milton, or even watch the Devil's Advocate. Of course as humans we need a beginning and an end, we are unable to comprehend that time does not exist outside of this world.
  152. @JMcG
    Pardon my misplaced apostrophe.

    Actually, it can be grammatically correct all three ways– Apostles Creed, Apostle’s Creed, Apostles’ Creed. What does tradition say?

    If you’re sensitive about apostrophical error, don’t ever post from a Kindle on Silk. Bezos didn’t learn the rules as a child. Or he’s honoring greengrocers with improperly inserted ones.

    (I’m at the library. That’s why the sentence before the last doesn’t read Besos or Jesus. Kindle’s autoincorrect is amazing at times.)

    • Replies: @JMcG
    Tradition says Apostles’ Creed is the correct form. I’d be having my ear pulled by a nun if they knew how far I’d fallen.
  153. @advancedatheist

    Very few urban shooting homicides are ever solved
     
    So much for the trope in detective fiction that it takes an unusually intelligent criminal mastermind to commit the perfect murder, outwit the cops and escape unpunished. Plenty of dumbass urban blacks commit these perfect murders every year.

    True, but they are hardly Agatha Christie worthy.

  154. @Anonymous
    The best and the worst Christians I know seem to be Reformed in their theology. The middle of the roaders are all Arminian Baptists/nondenominational, non Latin Mass Catholics, or SDA.

    Trad Catholics, Mormons and whatnot are too busy to cause much trouble for others but I know few of them on anything but a very casual basis.

    I’m a Trad Catholic and I’ve never been busy in my entire life.

    “Busy-ness” is a Protestant thing.

    • LOL: Bardon Kaldian
    • Replies: @L Woods
    Wish there was a "like" button for this (agree doesn't quite capture it). Anglo-Protestant self-congratulatory "business" is utterly obnoxious.
  155. @Anon
    Black teens commit violence all the time, which the media ignores. When whites do it (though much less often), the media goes bananas. When goes to show you that at heart, the media still thinks whites are much more important to write about than blacks.

    Man Bites Dog.

  156. @Reg Cæsar
    Actually, it can be grammatically correct all three ways-- Apostles Creed, Apostle's Creed, Apostles' Creed. What does tradition say?

    If you're sensitive about apostrophical error, don't ever post from a Kindle on Silk. Bezos didn't learn the rules as a child. Or he's honoring greengrocers with improperly inserted ones.

    (I'm at the library. That's why the sentence before the last doesn't read Besos or Jesus. Kindle's autoincorrect is amazing at times.)

    Tradition says Apostles’ Creed is the correct form. I’d be having my ear pulled by a nun if they knew how far I’d fallen.

  157. “My guess: declining fear of Hell.”

    OK, Mr. Sailer, so what exactly is your theory other than a meager statement? How does religion, or the lack thereof, play a role here? Spin us some NOTICING.

    • Replies: @Mr. Anon

    OK, Mr. Sailer, so what exactly is your theory other than a meager statement? How does religion, or the lack thereof, play a role here? Spin us some NOTICING.
     
    The mechanism is obvious. Only an idiot like you would need it spelled out. Or is that some cute, passive-agressive snark. Either way, it's lame. You really are a f**king moron.
  158. I just wanted to say- Rosie, go girl, go!

  159. Anon[880] • Disclaimer says:
    @Hippopotamusdrome
    El Paso crisis actor shooting hoax is being used as a pretext to shut down 8chan, 4chans more serious older brother.


    8chan Is a Megaphone for Gunmen. ‘Shut the Site Down,’ Says Its Creator

    Moments before the El Paso shooting on Saturday, a four-page message whose author identified himself as the gunman appeared on 8chan

     




    Ron


    All our domains have been removed from cloudflare, so we will be moving to another service asap. Please excuse any downtime as we migrate to the new service.

     



    Matthew Prince

    We just sent notice we are terminating service for 8chan. There comes a time when enough is enough. But this isn't the end. We need to have a broader conversation about addressing the root causes of hate online.

     

    Voat’s been under attack for a week, and even Liveleak has had to hide its comment section for the last month. The left has been making an all-out push to knock the right-wing opinions off the air. We need to make cyberattacks on websites flat-out illegal. They are violations of Civil Rights and the Right to Free Speech. Put the people trying to silence free speech in jail.

  160. @Rosie

    he gets shitty slut 2nds
     
    Because women are merchandise.

    Men view women like they do cars. At least, men around here do. I am sad to say I have a much more negative attitude towards men than I did before I started posting here.

    https://www.carsdirect.com/used-car-prices/why-does-a-new-car-lose-value-after-its-driven-off-the-lot

    The analogy is somewhat apt.

    News flash men do not like sharing unlike women who view it as validation of their mans sexiness.

    There is a story The Dead by iirc James Joyce about the resentment a husband has for his wife’s long dead first lover.

    Again no man likes it.

  161. @Counterinsurgency

    FDR was an Establishment figure, the Dems’ VP candidate in 1920, although his career was sidetracked by polio in 1921.
     
    Right, and Democratic Governor of NY State in 1929.

    Nevertheless, Schivelbusch makes a good case that FDR was not establishment.

    FDR was a bit of a maverick. With his patrician background, he should have been a Republican. At the same time, he wasn't a political organization man. It marked him as someone out of the ordinary for his party (sort of like Trump in that respect) and his class, and gave him the visible independence from party and class needed for the public to accept him as a leader who, largely through personality, could lead him through the post-1929 troubles (again, sort of like Trump).

    This is consistent with my memories of how FDR was thought of in the 1950s and 1960's: a leader who had saved the US from destruction in the 1930s and WW II. The Democratic party was no credited with that save: FDR (and, of course, America) was.

    Counterinsurgency

    FDR was a bit of a maverick. With his patrician background, he should have been a Republican. At the same time, he wasn’t a political organization man. It marked him as someone out of the ordinary for his party (sort of like Trump in that respect) and his class, and gave him the visible independence from party and class needed for the public to accept him as a leader who, largely through personality, could lead him through the post-1929 troubles (again, sort of like Trump).

    FDR and Trump are similar in many ways. Rich kids from New York, strong personalities, don’t read much, shaky on the facts and details, “directionally correct,” opportunists, little respect for established procedures…

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    FDR's branch of the Roosevelts, the Tuxedo Park Roosevelts, had traditionally been Democrats while TR's branch, the Oyster Bay Roosevelts, were traditionally Republican. FDR married TR's niece, his fifth cousin, and greatly admired TR across party lines, while TR thought FDR a promising young man. FDR got nominated for VP on the Democratic ticket in 1920 mostly on the glamor of the Roosevelt name.

    FDR's admirers tend to point to his battle against polio from 1921 on as when he matured from the conventional young scion to the more resourceful older man.

    FDR and Trump aren't a bad comparison, although FDR had a full set of upper crust class markers (e.g., accent, Harvard, sailing, etc.) and Trump does not.

  162. @alt right moderate
    The majority of people taking SSRIs are women. Are white females becoming a lot more homocidal?

    As women they suffer controls which skew the usefulness of that point (cf female vs male suicide methods). However, it has been noted that we are seeing unprecedented female violence; it’s just that, well, it doesn’t go anywhere.

  163. @Reg Cæsar

    Black teens commit violence all the time, which the media ignores.
     
    Well, duh. Dog-bites-man.

    Mass coverage is evidence for a phenomenon's rarity. The lack thereof is evidence of its ubiquity.

    Canadian and British radio news carries every detail of an American mass shooting perpetrated by a white man as an absolute top story. I’ve never heard them talk about Chicago gang violence or Muslim rape gangs.

    • Replies: @LondonBob
    The media here in Britain, and the the public in general, are just obsessed by American mass shootings and American gun laws. I've seen people I talk to go red in the face when I nonchalantly say it doesn't really interest me and that American gun laws are really their business. I assume it is because it makes them feel superior the world's only superpower and my comments undermine that belief.
  164. @Old Palo Altan
    I'm a Trad Catholic and I've never been busy in my entire life.

    "Busy-ness" is a Protestant thing.

    Wish there was a “like” button for this (agree doesn’t quite capture it). Anglo-Protestant self-congratulatory “business” is utterly obnoxious.

  165. The Columbine killers did not expect to go to Hell.

    “Hopefully, death is like being in a dream state.” – Eric Harris

    “Just know I’m going to a better place. I didn’t like life too much and I know I’ll be happy wherever the f**k I go. So I’m gone. Goodbye.” – Dylan Klebold addressing his mother in his final videotaped message

    “Existence is a great hall, life is one of the rooms, death is passing thru the doors, & the everexistent compulsion of everything is the curiosity to keep moving down the hall, thru the doors, exploring rooms, down this never-ending hall. Questions make answers, answers conceive questions, and at long last he is content…. I want to find a room in the great hall & stay there w my love forever. This room sucks wanna die.” – Klebold in his journal

    They talked about being ghosts who would haunt the survivors. Harris said they would “create flashbacks from what we do and drive them insane.”

    Columbine was (and is) located in an intensely evangelical community, but neither boy came from that background. Harris was an Air Force brat from a nominally Catholic family. According to friends and acquaintances, his father was a strict disciplinarian. (His older brother was the perfect son – a football player *and* an honor student.)

    Klebold’s father was a Lutheran geologist, his mother a Jewish community-college administrator. Both hailed from Ohio and moved to Colorado in the late ’70s during the oil boom. The family attempted to accommodate both religious traditions. But Klebold claimed that his Jewish relatives essentially disowned him.

    Both Harris and Klebold spoke disdainfully of “k**kes.” There was a moment on one of their videotapes when Klebold announced that his parents were going to “f**king Passover.” Harris, taken aback, asked, “You’re Jewish?” Klebold answered, sheepishly: “Yes.” After a moment, Harris said, “Sorry, man.”

    In recent years, Klebold’s mother has published a book, appeared in a documentary, and granted numerous interviews, most notably with Diane Sawyer.

  166. @That (Other) Guy
    I could be wrong, but it's not going to matter a whole lot if this stuff about Betts and antifa/leftism pans out. El Paso will drive the narrative and Dayton will just be used to bolster the case for gun control.

    RW media will cover it, but that's not really saying much in the grand scheme.

    Also, you can tell how deep down Beto O'Rourke is ecstatic over this. He knows it's wrong to feel that way but it's just too perfect for him at this exact moment and he's going to run with it and not feel too bad about his good fortune. Just may have have saved his brand too right when it was going off the cliff. True blue white male SJW scolds have no soul. They just don't.

    Might explain his peculiar laughter in a YouTube video. Everything’s coming up roses, old son, and the laughter just welled up from recesses of his vacant, rotting self at the thought of how he might be able to turn this to his advantage.

  167. @Hypnotoad666

    Or it could be that they do some good for 20% of the people who use them and make 1% worse?
     
    One theory is that SSRIs increase the risk of suicide because they give some depressed people just enough initiative to stop procrastinating and finally get around to killing themselves.

    If true, I suppose the same phenomenon could apply to the homicidal as well.

    It's interesting, though, that our culture is fascinated with "profiling" serial killers. But nobody seems to have much of an idea what makes these mass shooters do what they do.

    Curiosity and disclosure regarding the Las Vegas shooter’s motives seemed especially lacking

    • Replies: @J.Ross
    The reason they were calling the El Paso shooter racist right away is his victims. The Vegas shooter targeted a country music concert. The FBI are still unable to divine a motive.
  168. @Mr. Anon
    Right locale (Hell), wrong side (right).

    Many people are now reporting (based on Twitter history) that the murderous fiend in Dayton was a leftist antifa supporter, a fan of Bernie and Betsy (Warren), and a self-professed satanist. This guy was even woke enough to call out his preferred pronouns. His parents made Facebook posts critical of Trump and the Alt-Right. And he was, on a time averaged basis, even more deadly than the apparent "white supremecist" murderer in El Paso - nine murdered in 30 seconds. According to some reports, his target was a bar that catered to conservative people. And cops, which might explain why he was put down so fast.

    Tell us again, MSM, how the Rhetoric of Hate has made such a crime possible? Will anybody be asking Sanders and Warren to explain and/or disavow this enthusiastic supporter of theirs?

    Rather like the Bernie Bro who shot up the baseball practice of Republicans from the Congress. Unmistakeably, this was an act of political terrorism, to anybody who was honest about this deed, at least.

    But my, my, how that one got shoved down the Memory Hole on the double quick. I mean, that’s just not who fervent leftists are. But on the other hand, that is exactly who fervent rightists are, don’t you agree, sez The Narrative.

  169. @Bubba

    My guess: declining fear of Hell.
     
    Spot on as usual, Mr. Sailer. Spot on.

    Yeah, some are lost in a cloud of nihilism: no fears of hell or punishment but also few role models or unifying traditions.
    Suppose The Boomtown Rats’ “I don’t like Mondays” captures this somewhat, but that perp seemed more clearly broken, like a fuse blew out, while the El Paso perp seemed a tad more self aware, at least if the manifesto is confirmed to be his.

    Sometimes when I read unz.com, with the Blue & White scholarly layout, dispensing very intense analyses, leavened with an air of detachment, it can feel a bit surreal. The sky is falling, but we have time for careful edits & side dishes of irony.
    This Peter Murphy song & video is sort of the feel – gloomy but addictive:

  170. https://postimg.cc/6TffJXCK
    WTF I now love Neil deGrasse Tyson. Maybe getting MeTooed is getting “mugged by reality.”

  171. @Counterinsurgency

    Men view women like they do cars.
     
    Right you are. A few years back I remember reading that men think about women using the same part of their brain they use to think about property. Women think about men using the same part of their brain they used to think about children.
    True or not? Don't know, don't remember the reference. Plausible, though: standard multi-purpose use of the same structures, and standard re-purposing of pre-existing structures for new evolutionary roles: in this case, male provisioning in a primate species.

    This makes things a bit difficult for women, because men can either care for property or use it up, and it's difficult to tell which kind of property (long term capital or disposable income) the woman is regarded as. Not much fun when one of your "children" (boyfriend) turns out to regard you as disposable.

    For what it's worth, men don't like being thought of as children, either. Women have a cutout that eliminates deep affection for children after a certain age (beginning of puberty I'd guess), and that seems to be used during divorces and at other times (the Media archetype).

    But you either take what you can get or do without, men and women both.

    Counterinsurgency

    Media

    Sorry, should have read “Medea” (https://www.ancient.eu/medea/).

    Counterinsurgency

  172. @alt right moderate
    The majority of people taking SSRIs are women. Are white females becoming a lot more homocidal?

    Well, perhaps they are, but rather in the manner of Lady Macbeth; she did not herself murder King Duncan, but she was the ultimate goad for her husband to do the deed. I think that you can certainly descry some radically inciteful speech against white males in recent times, no?

    They have been a crucial element in the demonization and disempowerment of white men in the agitprop of the left.

    Not that they will get any thanks from the Coalition of the Fringes for their efforts, because as “Beckies”, equally tarred by the brush of White Privilege as are white men, they will be turned upon with vengeful savagery once their part as “useful idiots” has run its course.

  173. @The Anti-Gnostic
    The best contribution that all but the highest g women can make to society is to marry well and homeschool their children. The notion of "careers" for women (which 99% of them will not have, just like most men) is one of the most pernicious in human history. A society that puts prospective spouses in head-to-head economic competition with each other is not showing up for the future.

    I can qualify that: women have always worked outside the home and divorces, deaths and other tragedies can happen. So it's probably a good idea for your daughter to get a college degree and be prepared to enter the workforce if necessary. But what is being sold is jobs as status markers for women, and an end in themselves. Since women marry up, not down, this modern experiment ends with more unhappy women and men.

    The best contribution that all but the highest g women can make to society is to marry well and homeschool their children.

    They can’t do that if men won’t marry them.

    Since women marry up, not down, this modern experiment ends with more unhappy women and men.

    Ackshully, more and more women are marrying “down” educationally. They still prefer spouses who earn more, but that’s not a problem, because men still outearn women. (Obviously, I don’t consider that a problem.)

  174. @Anonymous
    > Men view women like they do cars. At least, men around here do.

    No we don’t. Not those of us with beloved wives and daughters, anyway.

    We resent the idea we have anything in common with Bruce Springsteen.

  175. @Mr. Anon
    There is a lot of propaganda directed at women today that men are unimportant - mere fashion accessories - or are even simply "the enemy". Women are also told that thier career is the most important thing in life, even to the exclusion of family.

    Do you think this not to be the case? How exactly do you explain the messages transmitted by the mass media to an audience of women? And do you think it has no effect?

    Do you think this not to be the case? How exactly do you explain the messages transmitted by the mass media to an audience of women? And do you think it has no effect?

    If I understand you correctly, you’re saying that men should presume that women who have careers won’t care about their family, should they ever have one. That’s asinine, of course. Talk to any woman (like your mom, for instance) about how having a child changes their priorities and get back to me.

    • Replies: @Mr. Anon

    If I understand you correctly, you’re saying that men should presume that women who have careers won’t care about their family, should they ever have one.
     
    Do you understand anyone correctly? You seem too busy being outraged to pay attention to what others say. No, I did not say that. I said that women who are focussed on their career often are not receptive to the idea of having a family. The media tells them that is what they should do, and women - who tend to conformism - often follow the media's lead.

    You also didn't answer my question. What about the propaganda directed at women? Do you deny there is any such thing? Do you deny it works? If that is the case, why is it produced?

    For that matter, are there any problems in society you are willing to lay at the feet of women?
  176. @TWS
    No they can't or won't. Not sure if there's a big difference at this point. Women can choose to prioritize family or work. You can't serve two masters. Right now they're choosing playing the field and work until... well until they're past their best-by date.

    Right now they’re choosing playing the field and work until… well until they’re past their best-by date.

    How do you know that? Obviously, a woman with no prospects for marriage is going to invest more in their careers, because they figure they’re on their own.

    Do men want to get married in their early to mid-20s? If not, they shouldn’t be surprised if women decide to focus on our careers.

    • Replies: @TWS
    How do I know? Experience, observation, I know men can serve only one master because that's how mankind is fashioned. Asking a woman to forego children when she can bear them for some ephemeral material benefits is evil.

    You do realize that it's an unequal situation? A man can marry in this thirties, forties or fifties and still start a family. A woman cannot.
  177. @Faraday's Bobcat

    FDR was a bit of a maverick. With his patrician background, he should have been a Republican. At the same time, he wasn’t a political organization man. It marked him as someone out of the ordinary for his party (sort of like Trump in that respect) and his class, and gave him the visible independence from party and class needed for the public to accept him as a leader who, largely through personality, could lead him through the post-1929 troubles (again, sort of like Trump).
     
    FDR and Trump are similar in many ways. Rich kids from New York, strong personalities, don't read much, shaky on the facts and details, "directionally correct," opportunists, little respect for established procedures...

    FDR’s branch of the Roosevelts, the Tuxedo Park Roosevelts, had traditionally been Democrats while TR’s branch, the Oyster Bay Roosevelts, were traditionally Republican. FDR married TR’s niece, his fifth cousin, and greatly admired TR across party lines, while TR thought FDR a promising young man. FDR got nominated for VP on the Democratic ticket in 1920 mostly on the glamor of the Roosevelt name.

    FDR’s admirers tend to point to his battle against polio from 1921 on as when he matured from the conventional young scion to the more resourceful older man.

    FDR and Trump aren’t a bad comparison, although FDR had a full set of upper crust class markers (e.g., accent, Harvard, sailing, etc.) and Trump does not.

    • Replies: @LondonBob
    Celebrities are the new upper class, Trump is a celebrity.
    , @Old Palo Altan
    That's Hyde Park Roosevelts.
  178. @Ragno
    Get ready for nonstop shrieks of White Nationalist Violence! every time you turn on the idiot box (or click the official 'news' links).

    Now we're about to pay the price for allowing the Deep State to vigorously pretend black violence doesn't exist, and to have stood by meekly as they spent decades sweeping it all into a dustbin marked "teens".

    Now we’re about to pay the price for allowing the Deep State to vigorously pretend black violence doesn’t exist, and to have stood by meekly as they spent decades sweeping it all into a dustbin marked “teens”.

    Don’t forget youths.

    Who isn’t sympathetic and favorably inclined toward youths?

  179. @Dube
    Insouciance at the prospect of hellfire may have been a condition for the recent shootings, but if the perps had been able to repose their existential agitation upon the pieties of girlfriends, that might have eased some tension. The prince of Denmark spoke, in concluding his soliloquy, Nymph, in thy orisons be all my sins remembered.

    Why was he asking her to pray for him? Why didn't he pray for himself?

    Some might deplore the privileged handoff, but at least he didn't go down and tear up the tavern.

    but if the perps had been able to repose their existential agitation upon the pieties of girlfriends, that might have eased some tension.

    Perhaps. Or perhaps such girlfriends would become victims of said perps’ antisocial impulses and orientation.

    An awful lot of people throughout the world are disgruntled, lonely and frustrated. What percentage of them commit acts of violence?

  180. @Rosie

    Do you think this not to be the case? How exactly do you explain the messages transmitted by the mass media to an audience of women? And do you think it has no effect?
     
    If I understand you correctly, you're saying that men should presume that women who have careers won't care about their family, should they ever have one. That's asinine, of course. Talk to any woman (like your mom, for instance) about how having a child changes their priorities and get back to me.

    If I understand you correctly, you’re saying that men should presume that women who have careers won’t care about their family, should they ever have one.

    Do you understand anyone correctly? You seem too busy being outraged to pay attention to what others say. No, I did not say that. I said that women who are focussed on their career often are not receptive to the idea of having a family. The media tells them that is what they should do, and women – who tend to conformism – often follow the media’s lead.

    You also didn’t answer my question. What about the propaganda directed at women? Do you deny there is any such thing? Do you deny it works? If that is the case, why is it produced?

    For that matter, are there any problems in society you are willing to lay at the feet of women?

    • Replies: @Rosie

    You also didn’t answer my question. What about the propaganda directed at women? Do you deny there is any such thing? Do you deny it works?
     
    If you ever bothered to do any empirical research rather than just parroting misogynistic manosphere talking points, you would know that such propaganda he has had virtually no effect.

    https://news.gallup.com/poll/164618/desire-children-norm.aspx
  181. @Corvinus
    "My guess: declining fear of Hell."

    OK, Mr. Sailer, so what exactly is your theory other than a meager statement? How does religion, or the lack thereof, play a role here? Spin us some NOTICING.

    OK, Mr. Sailer, so what exactly is your theory other than a meager statement? How does religion, or the lack thereof, play a role here? Spin us some NOTICING.

    The mechanism is obvious. Only an idiot like you would need it spelled out. Or is that some cute, passive-agressive snark. Either way, it’s lame. You really are a f**king moron.

    • Replies: @Corvinus
    "The mechanism is obvious."

    No, it is purposely vague.

    "You really are a f**king moron."

    Why don't you just rename yourself Mr. Angry Anon? Life is too short to be upset all of the time, my fellow white friend.
  182. @Steve Sailer
    Or it could be that they do some good for 20% of the people who use them and make 1% worse?

    I have only known one guy that used SSRIs. He had problems, we talked about it. He said the meds helped. Got himself killed when he drove off the road. Not sure if the recklessness was him or the drugs.

  183. anon[326] • Disclaimer says:

    “Either way, it’s lame. You really are a f**king moron.”

    Shame on Sailer for approving this guy’s comments. Corvinus is a weird autistic dork who continually lies about being married with kids (yeah right), promotes violence through subtle endorsement of extremist acts, posts on this website at 2 am, repeats lines from movies like Starship Troopers ad nauseam, has a low IQ so he can’t understand subtext, and bizarrely attacks the blog owner for not having complete knowledge of every extremist website he visits and every story he reads. Logically, this guy could simply get his own blog … but yet here he is posting on someone else’s. What Corvinus, why don’t YOU do us some NOTICING? I suspect you know that you’d get immediately punk’d by readers in your comments section because you’re not that smart. Sailer might even have a bit of fun linking to your blog and laughing about it. The guy is clearly ill, and maybe dangerous considering his many underhanded comments promoting readers to take violent acts. He may be schizophrenic. Either way, he should be banned. He contributes nothing of substance other than the occasional instance where some anon has enough and demolishes him line-by-line.

    P.S. Hey Corvinus, how’s that prediction of yours that Beto would take the primary going? Huh, huh? Great call, genius.

    • Replies: @JMcG
    I like Steve’s moderation policy, but I do make use of the “Commentors to Ignore” feature. It’s not flawless, but it makes for a better experience here.
  184. @S. Anonyia
    Predestination seems to be the cousin of all those gloomy Germanic sagas where one’s destiny was unavoidable, and all the world is going to end one day anyway. Comes from the same impulse I think. What would be really weird would be if a tropical culture embraced predestination.

    Not really, predestination was a means to explain how God knows what is going to happen already. Essentially God knows what we will do already even if we are still acting under free will, just read a bit of Milton, or even watch the Devil’s Advocate. Of course as humans we need a beginning and an end, we are unable to comprehend that time does not exist outside of this world.

  185. @J.Ross
    Canadian and British radio news carries every detail of an American mass shooting perpetrated by a white man as an absolute top story. I've never heard them talk about Chicago gang violence or Muslim rape gangs.

    The media here in Britain, and the the public in general, are just obsessed by American mass shootings and American gun laws. I’ve seen people I talk to go red in the face when I nonchalantly say it doesn’t really interest me and that American gun laws are really their business. I assume it is because it makes them feel superior the world’s only superpower and my comments undermine that belief.

    • Replies: @68W58
    I used to hang out on ARRSE-the (British) ARmy Rumour SErvice. They would have threads about shootings in the U.S. where even staunchly conservative members would work themselves up into a rage about American gun ownership. As you pointed out, when other members reminded them that it was really none of their business, they became even angrier.
    , @J.Ross
    Absolutely, and it works domestically too: many blacks on Twitter obsess over rare white shootings while refusing to discuss black crime; one demands haughtily to know why white parents are so bad at raising their kids that they turn into mass shooters.
  186. @Steve Sailer
    FDR's branch of the Roosevelts, the Tuxedo Park Roosevelts, had traditionally been Democrats while TR's branch, the Oyster Bay Roosevelts, were traditionally Republican. FDR married TR's niece, his fifth cousin, and greatly admired TR across party lines, while TR thought FDR a promising young man. FDR got nominated for VP on the Democratic ticket in 1920 mostly on the glamor of the Roosevelt name.

    FDR's admirers tend to point to his battle against polio from 1921 on as when he matured from the conventional young scion to the more resourceful older man.

    FDR and Trump aren't a bad comparison, although FDR had a full set of upper crust class markers (e.g., accent, Harvard, sailing, etc.) and Trump does not.

    Celebrities are the new upper class, Trump is a celebrity.

  187. @Kevin O'Keeffe

    There is also the little-known fact that most of the school shootings are committed by teens who were on or who recently stopped taking anti-depressants. SSRIs can cause homicidal or suicidal behavior, especially in teens.
     
    I strongly suspect that's true, but calling it a "fact" may be premature. Do we have any actual evidence for that? It seems true, I'll grant, and I suspect it probably is. But some actual evidence would be helpful.

    Getting an actual survey or study of school shootings and SSRI usage is complicated by the fact that there is a dishonesty at the root of the school shooting narrative. The news stories of “school shootings” are only the cases of a (usually white or Asian) student going on a semi-psychotic rampage for no pragmatic purpose. And these may very well have an SSRI component. But these are only a small fraction of actual statistics of “school shootings”, which are mostly by shooters of color in vibrant neighborhoods who are shooting in the cause of gang activity, drug trade enforcement, avenging some ghetto vendetta, or a combination thereof. The news media assiduously does not cover these cases, except under the rubric of passive-voice moral-agency-free “gun violence” in the service of the narrative that Deplorables must be disarmed.

    So an attempt to correlate the former type of shootings with SSRI use has to find a way to filter out the majority of the statistics to get at the cases that people think of for “school shootings”. The obvious way is to filter by race, but of course that would immediately be denounced as “racist” and get the study’s author banned from the academy.

  188. @Intelligent Dasein

    The entire garment is the breakdown of connection and purpose.
     
    The shooters did not suffer from any lack of purpose. They had a purpose to kill people, which they pursued with great gusto. James Holmes, in particular, could not have been more clear about this. Continuing to think of them as unfortunates who somehow fell through the cracks of society is just more liberal, bleeding heart, universalist nonsense. I guarantee you none of them thought of themselves that way. They would have pursued the same course of action no matter what, advantaged or disadvantaged.

    “The shooters did not suffer from any lack of purpose. They had a purpose to kill people”

    Fair point, but I think AD meant “breakdown of purpose” as in “lack of a good purpose”.

    “They would have pursued the same course of action no matter what, advantaged or disadvantaged.”

    Would they though? Is this assuming facts not in evidence? After all, what has people alarmed is that these somewhat psycho killing sprees seem more common now than in the past, and if they are more common now, that means the perps are not eternally pursuing the same course of action no matter what.

    • Replies: @Intelligent Dasein

    Would they though? Is this assuming facts not in evidence? After all, what has people alarmed is that these somewhat psycho killing sprees seem more common now than in the past,
     
    The problem with this is that that assumption, that "seeming" as you put it, is simply wrong, and it is those who adhere to it who are really the ones assuming facts not in evidence. There were far fewer people in the past, and there was no mass media in the past to inform the entire world of every spree killing the instant it occurred. But the past as a whole, even the relatively recent past, was a lot more violent than the present, which is an uncharacteristically docile era. Incidence of violent crime today is at a low ebb, which is precisely why these spree killings take on such an exaggerated importance in modern minds.
  189. @LondonBob
    The media here in Britain, and the the public in general, are just obsessed by American mass shootings and American gun laws. I've seen people I talk to go red in the face when I nonchalantly say it doesn't really interest me and that American gun laws are really their business. I assume it is because it makes them feel superior the world's only superpower and my comments undermine that belief.

    I used to hang out on ARRSE-the (British) ARmy Rumour SErvice. They would have threads about shootings in the U.S. where even staunchly conservative members would work themselves up into a rage about American gun ownership. As you pointed out, when other members reminded them that it was really none of their business, they became even angrier.

  190. @Mr. Anon

    If I understand you correctly, you’re saying that men should presume that women who have careers won’t care about their family, should they ever have one.
     
    Do you understand anyone correctly? You seem too busy being outraged to pay attention to what others say. No, I did not say that. I said that women who are focussed on their career often are not receptive to the idea of having a family. The media tells them that is what they should do, and women - who tend to conformism - often follow the media's lead.

    You also didn't answer my question. What about the propaganda directed at women? Do you deny there is any such thing? Do you deny it works? If that is the case, why is it produced?

    For that matter, are there any problems in society you are willing to lay at the feet of women?

    You also didn’t answer my question. What about the propaganda directed at women? Do you deny there is any such thing? Do you deny it works?

    If you ever bothered to do any empirical research rather than just parroting misogynistic manosphere talking points, you would know that such propaganda he has had virtually no effect.

    https://news.gallup.com/poll/164618/desire-children-norm.aspx

    • Replies: @Mr. Anon
    You're link says no such thing. It doesn't break down births by race, or number of children that white people actually have, or age at first birth, etc.

    And you know how I know that the propaganda directed at women works? Because they keep doing it.

    Anyway, if everything is peachy, as you suggest, what's you're problem? Why are you here complaining all the time?

    "For that matter, are there any problems in society you are willing to lay at the feet of women?"

    You didn't answer that. So, women are entirely blameless for any of society's problems?

    I'm not a mysognist. You just happen to be a carping shrew.

  191. @Almost Missouri

    "The shooters did not suffer from any lack of purpose. They had a purpose to kill people"
     
    Fair point, but I think AD meant "breakdown of purpose" as in "lack of a good purpose".

    "They would have pursued the same course of action no matter what, advantaged or disadvantaged."
     
    Would they though? Is this assuming facts not in evidence? After all, what has people alarmed is that these somewhat psycho killing sprees seem more common now than in the past, and if they are more common now, that means the perps are not eternally pursuing the same course of action no matter what.

    Would they though? Is this assuming facts not in evidence? After all, what has people alarmed is that these somewhat psycho killing sprees seem more common now than in the past,

    The problem with this is that that assumption, that “seeming” as you put it, is simply wrong, and it is those who adhere to it who are really the ones assuming facts not in evidence. There were far fewer people in the past, and there was no mass media in the past to inform the entire world of every spree killing the instant it occurred. But the past as a whole, even the relatively recent past, was a lot more violent than the present, which is an uncharacteristically docile era. Incidence of violent crime today is at a low ebb, which is precisely why these spree killings take on such an exaggerated importance in modern minds.

  192. @Rosie

    You also didn’t answer my question. What about the propaganda directed at women? Do you deny there is any such thing? Do you deny it works?
     
    If you ever bothered to do any empirical research rather than just parroting misogynistic manosphere talking points, you would know that such propaganda he has had virtually no effect.

    https://news.gallup.com/poll/164618/desire-children-norm.aspx

    You’re link says no such thing. It doesn’t break down births by race, or number of children that white people actually have, or age at first birth, etc.

    And you know how I know that the propaganda directed at women works? Because they keep doing it.

    Anyway, if everything is peachy, as you suggest, what’s you’re problem? Why are you here complaining all the time?

    “For that matter, are there any problems in society you are willing to lay at the feet of women?”

    You didn’t answer that. So, women are entirely blameless for any of society’s problems?

    I’m not a mysognist. You just happen to be a carping shrew.

    • Replies: @Rosie

    You’re link says no such thing. It doesn’t break down births by race, or number of children that white people actually have, or age at first birth, etc.
     
    You said that "career women" are likely to be uninterested in having a family as a result of propaganda directed at them. The link I provided clearly shows that people are just as likely to desire children as they have always been.

    It's true that people desire fewer children, but that's certainly to be expected based on changed economic circumstances alone. It would be strange indeed if people wanted the same number of children after decades of real decline in standard of living.

    The fact that it doesn't control for race is your problem, not mine, for you are the one making the affirmative (and detrimental) claim about women.

    You didn’t answer that. So, women are entirely blameless for any of society’s problems?
     
    "Society's problems" should generally be laid at the feet of the people who run the society, that is, the ruling class. The common folk, men or women, are not to blame.

    I’m not a mysognist. You just happen to be a carping shrew.
     
    "I'm not a misogynist, I just call women who defend themselves and each other from constant scapegoating "carping shrew."

    Do you have any idea how ridiculous you sound?
  193. @Mr. Anon

    OK, Mr. Sailer, so what exactly is your theory other than a meager statement? How does religion, or the lack thereof, play a role here? Spin us some NOTICING.
     
    The mechanism is obvious. Only an idiot like you would need it spelled out. Or is that some cute, passive-agressive snark. Either way, it's lame. You really are a f**king moron.

    “The mechanism is obvious.”

    No, it is purposely vague.

    “You really are a f**king moron.”

    Why don’t you just rename yourself Mr. Angry Anon? Life is too short to be upset all of the time, my fellow white friend.

    • Troll: YetAnotherAnon
    • Replies: @Mr. Anon
    You are not my friend. I am not yours.
  194. @LondonBob
    The media here in Britain, and the the public in general, are just obsessed by American mass shootings and American gun laws. I've seen people I talk to go red in the face when I nonchalantly say it doesn't really interest me and that American gun laws are really their business. I assume it is because it makes them feel superior the world's only superpower and my comments undermine that belief.

    Absolutely, and it works domestically too: many blacks on Twitter obsess over rare white shootings while refusing to discuss black crime; one demands haughtily to know why white parents are so bad at raising their kids that they turn into mass shooters.

  195. @Known Fact
    Curiosity and disclosure regarding the Las Vegas shooter's motives seemed especially lacking

    The reason they were calling the El Paso shooter racist right away is his victims. The Vegas shooter targeted a country music concert. The FBI are still unable to divine a motive.

  196. @Steve Sailer
    FDR's branch of the Roosevelts, the Tuxedo Park Roosevelts, had traditionally been Democrats while TR's branch, the Oyster Bay Roosevelts, were traditionally Republican. FDR married TR's niece, his fifth cousin, and greatly admired TR across party lines, while TR thought FDR a promising young man. FDR got nominated for VP on the Democratic ticket in 1920 mostly on the glamor of the Roosevelt name.

    FDR's admirers tend to point to his battle against polio from 1921 on as when he matured from the conventional young scion to the more resourceful older man.

    FDR and Trump aren't a bad comparison, although FDR had a full set of upper crust class markers (e.g., accent, Harvard, sailing, etc.) and Trump does not.

    That’s Hyde Park Roosevelts.

  197. @The Anti-Gnostic
    It doesn't take a lot of troubled people to sap trust and ruin public spaces for everybody. The healthy elite are withdrawing.

    The great betrayal of our elite is they will not preach what they practice. Instead, they preach uber tolerance and withdraw with their intact families from increasingly chaotic public spaces into a world of Amazon deliveries, concierge services, and time-share private jets.

    The elite (sic) aren’t the healthy ones.

    • Replies: @The Anti-Gnostic
    They actually are. They tend to have healthy life arcs and intact families.

    Probably the elites' most duplicitous stance is on immigration, as they invariably purchase low population density for themselves while telling you that you live in too many square feet.
  198. @L Woods
    Yes, you have yours (you think; for now) — we get it.

    No, you don’t. What I have is modest. I’m talking about my whole area/country.

  199. @anon
    "Either way, it’s lame. You really are a f**king moron."

    Shame on Sailer for approving this guy's comments. Corvinus is a weird autistic dork who continually lies about being married with kids (yeah right), promotes violence through subtle endorsement of extremist acts, posts on this website at 2 am, repeats lines from movies like Starship Troopers ad nauseam, has a low IQ so he can't understand subtext, and bizarrely attacks the blog owner for not having complete knowledge of every extremist website he visits and every story he reads. Logically, this guy could simply get his own blog ... but yet here he is posting on someone else's. What Corvinus, why don't YOU do us some NOTICING? I suspect you know that you'd get immediately punk'd by readers in your comments section because you're not that smart. Sailer might even have a bit of fun linking to your blog and laughing about it. The guy is clearly ill, and maybe dangerous considering his many underhanded comments promoting readers to take violent acts. He may be schizophrenic. Either way, he should be banned. He contributes nothing of substance other than the occasional instance where some anon has enough and demolishes him line-by-line.

    P.S. Hey Corvinus, how's that prediction of yours that Beto would take the primary going? Huh, huh? Great call, genius.

    I like Steve’s moderation policy, but I do make use of the “Commentors to Ignore” feature. It’s not flawless, but it makes for a better experience here.

  200. @JMcG
    Erm, when did they do that? That passage isn’t in the Nicene creed but I hadn’t hear of the Apostle’s Creed having been changed. Serious question.

    It’s likely apocryphal anyway. As with the deconstruction of the poetic King James, the quest for accuracy alone often plays out in a Brutalist manner.

  201. @Counterinsurgency

    FDR was an Establishment figure, the Dems’ VP candidate in 1920, although his career was sidetracked by polio in 1921.
     
    Right, and Democratic Governor of NY State in 1929.

    Nevertheless, Schivelbusch makes a good case that FDR was not establishment.

    FDR was a bit of a maverick. With his patrician background, he should have been a Republican. At the same time, he wasn't a political organization man. It marked him as someone out of the ordinary for his party (sort of like Trump in that respect) and his class, and gave him the visible independence from party and class needed for the public to accept him as a leader who, largely through personality, could lead him through the post-1929 troubles (again, sort of like Trump).

    This is consistent with my memories of how FDR was thought of in the 1950s and 1960's: a leader who had saved the US from destruction in the 1930s and WW II. The Democratic party was no credited with that save: FDR (and, of course, America) was.

    Counterinsurgency

    Thanks for the book recommendation.

  202. @Mr. Anon
    You're link says no such thing. It doesn't break down births by race, or number of children that white people actually have, or age at first birth, etc.

    And you know how I know that the propaganda directed at women works? Because they keep doing it.

    Anyway, if everything is peachy, as you suggest, what's you're problem? Why are you here complaining all the time?

    "For that matter, are there any problems in society you are willing to lay at the feet of women?"

    You didn't answer that. So, women are entirely blameless for any of society's problems?

    I'm not a mysognist. You just happen to be a carping shrew.

    You’re link says no such thing. It doesn’t break down births by race, or number of children that white people actually have, or age at first birth, etc.

    You said that “career women” are likely to be uninterested in having a family as a result of propaganda directed at them. The link I provided clearly shows that people are just as likely to desire children as they have always been.

    It’s true that people desire fewer children, but that’s certainly to be expected based on changed economic circumstances alone. It would be strange indeed if people wanted the same number of children after decades of real decline in standard of living.

    The fact that it doesn’t control for race is your problem, not mine, for you are the one making the affirmative (and detrimental) claim about women.

    You didn’t answer that. So, women are entirely blameless for any of society’s problems?

    “Society’s problems” should generally be laid at the feet of the people who run the society, that is, the ruling class. The common folk, men or women, are not to blame.

    I’m not a mysognist. You just happen to be a carping shrew.

    “I’m not a misogynist, I just call women who defend themselves and each other from constant scapegoating “carping shrew.”

    Do you have any idea how ridiculous you sound?

    • Replies: @Mr. Anon

    The link I provided clearly shows that people are just as likely to desire children as they have always been.
     
    People. Not white people. In case you hadn't noticed, the country's demographics have changed quite a bit. Those statistics lump in all the latino women who have 4.5 kids. You are not very discerning.

    Do you have any idea how ridiculous you sound?
     
    I'm just pointing out the obvious. Perhaps that's why you have to shout for attention - nobody here really cares what you think. I can't say I blame them. Your opinions are uninteresting.
  203. @Rosie

    You’re link says no such thing. It doesn’t break down births by race, or number of children that white people actually have, or age at first birth, etc.
     
    You said that "career women" are likely to be uninterested in having a family as a result of propaganda directed at them. The link I provided clearly shows that people are just as likely to desire children as they have always been.

    It's true that people desire fewer children, but that's certainly to be expected based on changed economic circumstances alone. It would be strange indeed if people wanted the same number of children after decades of real decline in standard of living.

    The fact that it doesn't control for race is your problem, not mine, for you are the one making the affirmative (and detrimental) claim about women.

    You didn’t answer that. So, women are entirely blameless for any of society’s problems?
     
    "Society's problems" should generally be laid at the feet of the people who run the society, that is, the ruling class. The common folk, men or women, are not to blame.

    I’m not a mysognist. You just happen to be a carping shrew.
     
    "I'm not a misogynist, I just call women who defend themselves and each other from constant scapegoating "carping shrew."

    Do you have any idea how ridiculous you sound?

    The link I provided clearly shows that people are just as likely to desire children as they have always been.

    People. Not white people. In case you hadn’t noticed, the country’s demographics have changed quite a bit. Those statistics lump in all the latino women who have 4.5 kids. You are not very discerning.

    Do you have any idea how ridiculous you sound?

    I’m just pointing out the obvious. Perhaps that’s why you have to shout for attention – nobody here really cares what you think. I can’t say I blame them. Your opinions are uninteresting.

    • Replies: @Rosie

    People. Not white people. In case you hadn’t noticed, the country’s demographics have changed quite a bit.
     
    Where is your evidence that White women are particularly likely to not want children?
  204. @advancedatheist

    Very few urban shooting homicides are ever solved
     
    So much for the trope in detective fiction that it takes an unusually intelligent criminal mastermind to commit the perfect murder, outwit the cops and escape unpunished. Plenty of dumbass urban blacks commit these perfect murders every year.

    [A mystery novelist] thinks a complicated murder scheme which baffles the lazy reader, who won’t be bothered itemizing the details, will also baffle the police, whose business is with details. The boys with their feet on the desks know that the easiest murder case in the world to break is the one somebody tried to get very cute with; the one that really bothers them is the murder somebody only thought of two minutes before he pulled it off.

    -Raymond Chandler, “The Simple Art of Murder“, (1950)

  205. @The Alarmist
    We, as a society, make murder relatively pain-free for the murderer. If they don't fear Hell, they might fear being hanged, drawn and quartered, and let's do it publicly so that justice can be seen to be done.

    Our aversion to harsh capital punishments is also related to our less spiritual outlook compared to our ancestors. In the 15th century, a highwayman being broken on the wheel was assured that he was working off some of his time in Purgatory upon the scaffold, and the crowd of onlookers believed the same- they would even shout words of encouragement and inspiration to the convict as his limbs were broken, urging him to suffer bravely for the benefit of his immortal soul. During the more skeptical and secular Enlightenment, such punishments were understood purely as deterrent examples operating by the power of Earthly fear alone, devoid of spiritual significance, and as such seemed to most far too barbaric for their ostensible purpose. 21st-century Westerners view punishments like breaking on the wheel, hanging, drawing, and quartering, and burning at the stake as barbarous savagery, but I imagine pious Medieval Christians would find our modern penal system even more reprehensible, as it destroys the soul, not the body.

  206. @S. Anonyia
    What are you talking about “different system?” Women in more traditional times were even more demanding that a man provide resources for her. When you have limited employment prospects and fewer legal rights, you are going to go for the richest (and probably most easygoing) man you can get.

    Also why 3rd world women are more mercenary than 1st world women.

    That was the agreement. Men provided the resources and women provided a home life. It was fair and worked.

  207. @Rosie

    Right now they’re choosing playing the field and work until… well until they’re past their best-by date.
     
    How do you know that? Obviously, a woman with no prospects for marriage is going to invest more in their careers, because they figure they're on their own.

    Do men want to get married in their early to mid-20s? If not, they shouldn't be surprised if women decide to focus on our careers.

    How do I know? Experience, observation, I know men can serve only one master because that’s how mankind is fashioned. Asking a woman to forego children when she can bear them for some ephemeral material benefits is evil.

    You do realize that it’s an unequal situation? A man can marry in this thirties, forties or fifties and still start a family. A woman cannot.

    • Replies: @Rosie

    You do realize that it’s an unequal situation? A man can marry in this thirties, forties or fifties and still start a family. A woman cannot.
     
    So you want young women to marry middle-aged balding men after they've pumped and dumped through their twenties?

    No. Women want to marry men a year or two older than them. If they're not ready then women have no obligation to marry older men. Either both are obligated to marry young or neither are.


    How do I know? Experience, observation, I know men can serve only one master because that’s how mankind is fashioned.
     
    And here my mom worked through my whole childhood because she had no choice, and I lived to tell about it.
  208. @Desiderius
    The elite (sic) aren’t the healthy ones.

    They actually are. They tend to have healthy life arcs and intact families.

    Probably the elites’ most duplicitous stance is on immigration, as they invariably purchase low population density for themselves while telling you that you live in too many square feet.

    • Replies: @Desiderius
    I don’t know man. The Trump types might mouth some of the shibboleths but the true believers, movers, and shakers tend to be as barren as a European prime minister.

    BTW, was at Cincinnati Zoo with my twins this morning and there were roughly a gazillion not just kids but babies two and under with lots of mommas with another in the oven. 98% Trump votery-looking too.
  209. @Mr. Anon

    The link I provided clearly shows that people are just as likely to desire children as they have always been.
     
    People. Not white people. In case you hadn't noticed, the country's demographics have changed quite a bit. Those statistics lump in all the latino women who have 4.5 kids. You are not very discerning.

    Do you have any idea how ridiculous you sound?
     
    I'm just pointing out the obvious. Perhaps that's why you have to shout for attention - nobody here really cares what you think. I can't say I blame them. Your opinions are uninteresting.

    People. Not white people. In case you hadn’t noticed, the country’s demographics have changed quite a bit.

    Where is your evidence that White women are particularly likely to not want children?

    • Replies: @Rosie
    FTR, I notice that Boone around here ever gives White women credit for making it a point to have a husband before having a child; they just complain we aren't having enough and assume it's because we're too selfish.

    https://images.app.goo.gl/mUTPYWKkSzdMwrSP6
    , @Mr. Anon
    Since you are replying to yourself, I'll let you field that question. In future, feel free to carry on a wide-ranging conversation with yourself. I've no interest in doing so.
  210. @TWS
    How do I know? Experience, observation, I know men can serve only one master because that's how mankind is fashioned. Asking a woman to forego children when she can bear them for some ephemeral material benefits is evil.

    You do realize that it's an unequal situation? A man can marry in this thirties, forties or fifties and still start a family. A woman cannot.

    You do realize that it’s an unequal situation? A man can marry in this thirties, forties or fifties and still start a family. A woman cannot.

    So you want young women to marry middle-aged balding men after they’ve pumped and dumped through their twenties?

    No. Women want to marry men a year or two older than them. If they’re not ready then women have no obligation to marry older men. Either both are obligated to marry young or neither are.

    How do I know? Experience, observation, I know men can serve only one master because that’s how mankind is fashioned.

    And here my mom worked through my whole childhood because she had no choice, and I lived to tell about it.

    • Replies: @TWS
    Yes that is exactly what I am proposing. Women and men should be promiscuous, foolhardy and hateful to each other.

    Could you set up a couple more straw men to knock around?

    I can't help your mom working. Clearly, it's had no adverse effect on you so there's that.
  211. @Rosie

    People. Not white people. In case you hadn’t noticed, the country’s demographics have changed quite a bit.
     
    Where is your evidence that White women are particularly likely to not want children?

    FTR, I notice that Boone around here ever gives White women credit for making it a point to have a husband before having a child; they just complain we aren’t having enough and assume it’s because we’re too selfish.

    https://images.app.goo.gl/mUTPYWKkSzdMwrSP6

    • Replies: @Rosie
    Dissident right men are very consistent in how they approach the WWQ (White Woman Question):

    When it comes to trends that are considered positive (like desire for children), WW are separated out from other women and considered our own unique group.

    When it comes to trends that are undesirable (like single motherhood) WW are just "women," lumped in with the worst offenders (NAM women).

    Hopefully unaware that they're doing this, they believe they have a rational basis for their animosity towards WW.

  212. @The Anti-Gnostic
    The best contribution that all but the highest g women can make to society is to marry well and homeschool their children. The notion of "careers" for women (which 99% of them will not have, just like most men) is one of the most pernicious in human history. A society that puts prospective spouses in head-to-head economic competition with each other is not showing up for the future.

    I can qualify that: women have always worked outside the home and divorces, deaths and other tragedies can happen. So it's probably a good idea for your daughter to get a college degree and be prepared to enter the workforce if necessary. But what is being sold is jobs as status markers for women, and an end in themselves. Since women marry up, not down, this modern experiment ends with more unhappy women and men.

    “The best contribution that all but the highest g women can make to society is to marry well and homeschool their children.”

    Except your own wife is a career woman as a school teacher, you hypocrite.

    “The notion of “careers” for women (which 99% of them will not have, just like most men)…”

    What planet do you live on? Men and women observably have careers. You as an ambulance chaser can attest.

    “A society that puts prospective spouses in head-to-head economic competition with each other is not showing up for the future.”

    Actually, it makes a society stronger.

    “Since women marry up, not down, this modern experiment ends with more unhappy women and men.”

    Men and women marry up or down.

  213. @Rosie
    FTR, I notice that Boone around here ever gives White women credit for making it a point to have a husband before having a child; they just complain we aren't having enough and assume it's because we're too selfish.

    https://images.app.goo.gl/mUTPYWKkSzdMwrSP6

    Dissident right men are very consistent in how they approach the WWQ (White Woman Question):

    When it comes to trends that are considered positive (like desire for children), WW are separated out from other women and considered our own unique group.

    When it comes to trends that are undesirable (like single motherhood) WW are just “women,” lumped in with the worst offenders (NAM women).

    Hopefully unaware that they’re doing this, they believe they have a rational basis for their animosity towards WW.

  214. @The Anti-Gnostic
    They actually are. They tend to have healthy life arcs and intact families.

    Probably the elites' most duplicitous stance is on immigration, as they invariably purchase low population density for themselves while telling you that you live in too many square feet.

    I don’t know man. The Trump types might mouth some of the shibboleths but the true believers, movers, and shakers tend to be as barren as a European prime minister.

    BTW, was at Cincinnati Zoo with my twins this morning and there were roughly a gazillion not just kids but babies two and under with lots of mommas with another in the oven. 98% Trump votery-looking too.

  215. @Rosie

    People. Not white people. In case you hadn’t noticed, the country’s demographics have changed quite a bit.
     
    Where is your evidence that White women are particularly likely to not want children?

    Since you are replying to yourself, I’ll let you field that question. In future, feel free to carry on a wide-ranging conversation with yourself. I’ve no interest in doing so.

    • Replies: @Rosie

    Since you are replying to yourself, I’ll let you field that question.
     
    IOW, you don't have any evidence.
  216. @Corvinus
    "The mechanism is obvious."

    No, it is purposely vague.

    "You really are a f**king moron."

    Why don't you just rename yourself Mr. Angry Anon? Life is too short to be upset all of the time, my fellow white friend.

    You are not my friend. I am not yours.

  217. @Mr. Anon
    Since you are replying to yourself, I'll let you field that question. In future, feel free to carry on a wide-ranging conversation with yourself. I've no interest in doing so.

    Since you are replying to yourself, I’ll let you field that question.

    IOW, you don’t have any evidence.

  218. @Rosie

    You do realize that it’s an unequal situation? A man can marry in this thirties, forties or fifties and still start a family. A woman cannot.
     
    So you want young women to marry middle-aged balding men after they've pumped and dumped through their twenties?

    No. Women want to marry men a year or two older than them. If they're not ready then women have no obligation to marry older men. Either both are obligated to marry young or neither are.


    How do I know? Experience, observation, I know men can serve only one master because that’s how mankind is fashioned.
     
    And here my mom worked through my whole childhood because she had no choice, and I lived to tell about it.

    Yes that is exactly what I am proposing. Women and men should be promiscuous, foolhardy and hateful to each other.

    Could you set up a couple more straw men to knock around?

    I can’t help your mom working. Clearly, it’s had no adverse effect on you so there’s that.

  219. @Liza
    About hell. I have heard that near death, people who've been particularly mean and sinful feel as if they are burning. Really bad. It's something they can't help you with at the hospital. It is just awful, apparently, and medical staff can hear you howling and begging to be released from this awful fire. I guess, though, that most people near death are drugged up to the ears so they are "saved" from this. Until they actually die. FWIW.

    There's also the case of Lenny Kravitz's father, a real SOB, seeing horrid demonic creatures around his hospital bed. Sez Lenny, "

    And he was in his bed one night and he looked at me, and he wasn’t on drugs, and he said to me, “There are these things flying around my bed, and these things crawling on the floor.” I said, “What are you talking about?” This is from my dad. He doesn’t do with any kind of spiritual thing. No heebie-jeebie kind of thing. And he’s, “There’s black-winged things and they’re flying around my bed… the things that are crawling on the ground, they look like they’re rats and they’re not… I see them.”

    So, maybe that's hell. Some people from the far east think that hell is inability to move on in the spirit world, you are hanging around your earthly home trying to get people back in your physical home to help you through hauntings, etc. I don't know anything either way.

    Lenny Kravitz’dad was Jewish. I thought Jews didn’t believe in hell.

    • Replies: @Liza
    Lenny's mother was a (Negro) Christian. Lenny became a Christian or so he says. As for the old man, he apparently had a conversion experience near his death. I guess his son helped him in that direction. Or maybe it was the visions of black creatures flying and crawling around his bed...that would do it for me, anyway.

    As far as I can figure, you may be correct about Jews not believing in hell. It is impossibly difficult to pin them down on their true beliefs, though. They will say things like, "Yes, we believe in an afterlife but are far more concerned about life on earth, here and now." What they truly think and feel is seemingly a deep secret to be shared only among themselves.
  220. @BB753
    Lenny Kravitz'dad was Jewish. I thought Jews didn't believe in hell.

    Lenny’s mother was a (Negro) Christian. Lenny became a Christian or so he says. As for the old man, he apparently had a conversion experience near his death. I guess his son helped him in that direction. Or maybe it was the visions of black creatures flying and crawling around his bed…that would do it for me, anyway.

    As far as I can figure, you may be correct about Jews not believing in hell. It is impossibly difficult to pin them down on their true beliefs, though. They will say things like, “Yes, we believe in an afterlife but are far more concerned about life on earth, here and now.” What they truly think and feel is seemingly a deep secret to be shared only among themselves.

  221. @Counterinsurgency

    Are radical Muslims supposed to be less afraid of Hell than moderate ones?
     
    Fighters for Islam have, since the AD 700s, been recruited largely from social outcasts who are told of one last chance to get to Paradise by fighting physically for Allah. Same with the very religious. Great way to recruit irregular fighters, BTW. Selects people who are going to die anyway and have some experience with living rough without social support. Produces fighters who need very little logistic support and are very tenacious. On the whole, low intensity border wars tend to be a net plus for Islamic societies. Troublemakers vanish from the interior, show up at the borders. Resulting unmatched women are taken into harems.

    Organized forces are expensive, and don't tend to do that well against irregulars anyway. You tend to get extensive ungoverned zones populated by expendable and highly motivated irregulars. Clearing such an area with conventional forces is like clearing a house of hornets with a flyswatter; you'd have to get the nest to get the hornets, and the nest if not in the ungoverned zone.

    So: Islamic fighters are, perhaps, more afraid of Hell than most people, and go well out of their way to avoid it.

    Counterinsurgency

    In other words, Sailer’s theory fails.

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