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Is India the World's Most Reactionary Civilization?
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Commenter Graham sends along a quote from Greater Britain, an 1868 book by Sir Charles Dilke, a leading British Radical politician:

The Northwest Provinces include the great towns of Benares, Agra, and Allahabad, and the census fell into my hands at Benares itself, at the Sanscrit College. … All callings in India being hereditary, there were entries recording the presence in certain towns of “hereditary clerks who pray to their inkhorns,” “hereditary beggars,” “hereditary planters of slips or cuttings,” “hereditary grave-diggers,” “hereditary hermits,”

“Hereditary hermit” would seem like a contradiction in terms…

and “hereditary hangmen,” for in India a hangmanship descends with as much regularity as a crown.

It became a fairly hereditary job in England, too.

In the single district of the Dehra Valley, there are 1500 “hereditary tomtom men”–drummers at the festivals; 234 Brahmins of Bijnour returned themselves as having for profession “the receipt of presents to avert the influence of evil stars.” In Bijnour, there are also fifteen people of a caste which professes “the pleasing of people by assuming disguises,” while at Benares there is a whole caste–the Bhâts–whose hereditary occupation is to “satirize the enemies of the rich, and to praise their friends.”

I had never realized that Jon Stewart, Samantha Bee, John Oliver, and Andy Borowitz are all Bhâts.

In the Northwest Provinces, there are 572 distinct castes in all.

… The Gour Brahmins claim to have been in the district of Moozuffernuggur for 5000 years.

Indians figured out the concept of “division of labor” long before Adam Smith:

Under the title of “occupations,” the heads of families alone were given, and not the number of those dependent on them, whence it comes that in the whole province only “11,000 tomtom players” were set down. The habits and tastes of the people are easily seen in the entries: “3600 firework manufacturers,” “45 makers of crowns for idols,” “4353 gold-bangle makers,” “29,136 glass-bangle makers,” “1123 astrologers.” There are also 145 “ear-cleaners,” besides “kite-makers,” “ear-piercers,” “pedigree-makers,” “makers of caste-marks,” “cow-dung sellers,” and “hereditary painters of horses with spots.”

There was no backwardness in the followers of maligned pursuits: 974 people in Allahabad described themselves as “low blackguards,” 35 as “men who beg with threats of violence,” 25 as “hereditary robbers,” 479,015 as “beggars,” 29 as “howlers at funerals,” 226 as “flatterers for gain;” “vagabonds,” “charmers,” “informers” were all set down, and 1100 returned themselves as “hereditary buffoons,”

Who knew that John Podhoretz was from India?

while 2000 styled themselves “conjurers,” 4000 “acrobats,” and 6372 “poets.” In one district alone, there were 777 “soothsayers and astrologers” by profession.”

Economic historian Gregory Clark’s recent analysis of surnames found in India an:

“overall rate of social mobility close to zero. India seems to be a uniquely immobile society.”

Is India, under the surface, the world’s most reactionary civilization?

 
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  1. Mark Caplan says: • Website

    I had never realized that John Stewart….

    I gather the unfunny spittle-spraying dwarf goes by Jon (for Jonathan) Stewart.

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  2. Anon says: • Disclaimer

    China was taken over by leftist commies… but Chinese are industrious and got into capitalism. So, communists became capitalists. Communist in ideology, capitalist in wealth and power.

    Likewise, many Jews began on the Left. But they are smart and industrious and succeeded in business. So, Jewish Leftists became super-capitalists. Leftist in attitude, capitalist and elitist in reality.

    India? I supposed India gained independence as a ‘socialist’ nation. But the government power was very limited and most of the society was hardly transformed. Looks like a nation of gypsies.

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    • Replies: @TheJester
    I've had conversations with Jews who escaped the Soviet Union when it imploded. They wax nostalgically about their elite privileges in the Soviet system ... being allowed to "own" large apartments in Moscow, tickets to the Bolshoi, excellent educations in Jewish-run technical institutes. Somehow, after their escape to the West, large numbers of these Jews seem to have ended up in banking of all professions. I don't know how or why.

    I find trying to understand the rapid transition of stereotypical Jewish communists into stereotypical Jewish capitalists intriguing and personal. My nephew married a Jewish woman from this group of emigres. They later divorced and he married his first wife's best friend, also from this group of emigres. Both work in the banking industry amid a cadre of Jewish emigres who work in the banking industry.

    One would think that working for a bank would be a humiliating experience for a good communist, even as they try to make a new life for themselves in the West. Can anyone throw some light on this?

    , @SteveRogers42
    Which is where the gyppos originated...
    , @Pachyderm Pachyderma
    India is a vast country with a population in a billion plus and your pea-brain would not be able to decipher it...

    Arabs, Jews, Armenians, Persians, Chinese, Turks and yes, even tbe mighty whites have been coming to India for eons to participate in the loot (real gold, not con-the-jackasses, Facebook money) and will come iagain in the future...

    Why tell you all the above? Because you're yearning for freedom from your oppressors and want to live your life as an intelligent WN. But you're thinking like a rodent, while your head is lodged in the derrière of Steve Sailer's ignoramus musings, which may not help gain liberty. Dislike what you will but do so with scholarship and not with guesses and don't let the pied piper lead you into the swamp of self-destruction!
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  3. Anon says: • Disclaimer

    With globalist migrations and immigrations, will the entire world have same hierarchies? Jews on top, whites and Asians in middle, browns as helots, blacks as whatever?

    Take Japan. Once, Japanese did everything, from high jobs to low jobs. But most Japanese are well-educated and don’t want low jobs. If possible, they wanna move to other nations to get middle jobs. Chinese have same attitude. So, they take over upper middle ranks in US and Canada and Australia.

    Meanwhile, Mexicans occupy helot positons wherever they go.

    And Jews gain elite position wherever they go.

    So, with massive migrations, the whole world will look similar in terms of class.

    What if lots of Japanese moved to the West to fill up middle and upper middle jobs. And what if lower level jobs in Japan were taken over by brown immigrants? And suppose Jews were allowed to move to Japan and take over elite positions.

    Then, US, Japan, Canada, Mexico, Germany, and etc will all have Jews at top, whites and asians as upper middle and middle, browns as helots, and blacks as whatever.

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    • Replies: @peterike

    With globalist migrations and immigrations, will the entire world have same hierarchies? Jews on top, whites and Asians in middle, browns as helots, blacks as whatever?

     

    More likely Asians will share the top with Jews. Jews and Chinese in America are already well along their way with assortive mating to create Tiger Babushkas, or whatever one calls them (see Zuckerberg). Chinese and Indians have no racial or ethnic guilt complexes and will not step aside for Jews based on Jewish Jedi Mind Tricks. Nor are they exhausted, like Western WASP society, and ready to retreat into mental retirement and give up all power.

    It will be quite some time before Jews start infiltrating China or India (the only nations here that matter) in large numbers, though some are already at it. But the reverse is well under way, of Chinese/Indians infiltrating America and rising to positions of wealth, power and influence. There is a tidal wave of this coming in the next 20 years, as Western universities, especially in U.S. and Australia, have been pouring out wave after wave of Asian graduates, who are now entering the ranks of all the SJW professions: media, news, legal, NGOs, politics, etc. And they are feverishly anti-white in the SJW mold.

    At the same time, because the upper elite is by definition limited, Asians will also form a large part of the middle classes, as whites continue to decline and Asians grow in number. And lots and lots of cross-racial breeding is going to happen. Chinese are already far along in America in mating with whites. Indians are still more tied to traditional marriage cultures, but its ending rapidly with Indians that are schooled in America.

    An open question is whither the white working class? They are still a significant part of the Helot group, but as a group they are declining rapidly due to relentless media, elite and governmental hostility toward them and demographic displacement. The helot class will likely be slightly whitened as sinking whites marry into the rising Hispanics.

    Blacks will remain a major problem that is likely to get even worse. But once whites are downtrodden enough, we might see an overnight change in elite attitudes about blacks, who serve now as a weapon to push whites down. Certainly the Asian infiltration of the elites isn't going to help blacks very much. I can see a time -- though probably 20 or more years out -- when the elite turns harshly on blacks and brings things back to a more 50s style mode of governance for them.

    The bottom line is that it will be really important in the coming decades to retain one's place in the middle- and upper-middle classes. Everything beneath that is going to get very ugly.
    , @Lot
    Going forward Jews will be increasingly (1) in Israel, where they by definition will mostly not be elite (2) mixed with the local population to the point they don't have exceptional IQ or ID as Jewish (3) poorly educated with many children in hasidic compounds.

    A few people from group 3 will secularize and do well, but we will never see anything like the 1940-1990 period when Jews with 115 average IQs were about 4% of the US white population and so visibly dominant in certain sectors.
    , @uman
    wow you really figured it out.
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  4. > “men who beg with threats of violence,”

    A case could be made that BLM is hereditary.

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  5. Hubbub says:

    Is India the World’s Most Reactionary Civilization?

    It seems to be the most stratified society.

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  6. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer

    This opens itself to all kinds of insanity, though I suspect it’s modernized a bit since those days now.

    I wonder, did they limit their numbers of kids based on how much job opportunity in a given narrow profession they’ll be? What do you do if there is no longer a demand for say ‘hereditary jugglers who only wear red’ because a territorial dispute has now created an ongoing war with a neighboring territory whose flag is red. You couldn’t just pack up and move to another territory then because they might as well be different countries, for many purposes. And as they say, social mobility is zero. And what else would you be trained for? Can you switch to being ‘hereditary juggler who only wears green’?

    And what do you do if you need to have a functional kitchen sink but the ‘hereditary kitchen sink plumber’ of this generation happens to be a complete nitwit? Or dies from plague? In a capitalist society, the demand would lead to another in the area, but here, doesn’t seem like that could happen.

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  7. TheJester says:

    If you have a “vibrant” rigidly enforced caste system like India, then by definition you have diversity and social peace. If the castes (and their related jobs and social roles) are inherited, then the social mechanism is firmly in place to aggressively and permanently promote diversity in all layers of society until the end of time. And, as we are learning, the more castes the better.

    There are definite benefits to a caste system. My guess that the Hindi do not incessantly argue over diversity like we do since if you miss that coveted promotion (or your preferred gender), you patiently wait until your next reincarnation to see if you get it … as the circle of life turns for eternity. Equally important, your social role via your caste has nothing to do with qualifications. You are assigned your social role and social status based on birth, race, religion, gender, and other immutables, much like affirmative action.

    Thank you iSteve. I knew that Western Civilization had important lessons to learn from the more ancient, staid civilizations. Now we can better see where we are drawing our inspiration.

    P.S. Is Sundar Pichai trying to set up a caste system at Google?

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    • Replies: @Jimi
    Traditionally caste has brought social peace. But caste is colliding with modernity and is creating upheavals in India. There are conflicts over caste-based Affirmative Action programs:

    Jat caste riot to be classified as low caste:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jat_reservation_agitation

    "Riots Break Out in India Over a Dominant Caste's Attempt to Gain 'Backward' Status"
    http://time.com/4011001/hardik-patel-protest-arrest-gujarat-obc/

    In Eastern India a Maoist insurgency is fighting the government. They are fueled by the grievances of low caste peasants:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naxalite%E2%80%93Maoist_insurgency
    , @AnotherDad

    If you have a “vibrant” rigidly enforced caste system like India, then by definition you have diversity and social peace.
     
    Because repression. Incredible stifling repression. Peace like North Korea has peace. There's no real opportunity to resist effectively.

    Where and when it becomes possible to resist the oppression then people do so. So modern India where there's a some daylight you have both actual insurgencies, and mass migration to improve ones lots, and successful demands for political allocation--like reservations--and agitation against such demands (reservation riots).

    Diversity creates conflict. It's fundamental. The caste system--like feudalism--is a social system of trying to lock in the classes in some fashion to achieve stability and good looting for those on top. But it only works until ... it doesn't.
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  8. Indian society is so genuinely fascinating.

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    • Replies: @Indians and socialism
    "Indian society is so genuinely fascinating."

    Only to outsiders. I can imagine it's not much fun for anyone born into a lower caste or stuck in one of the lower professions. Which explains why so many want to get the hell out of India the first chance they get. India's biggest export is its people. Unfortunately they bring with them all the horrible aspects of their culture when they emigrate, continuing to practice caste preferences in hiring in US corporations, in arranged marriages, and trying to extend Indian style socialism to America by being active in politics. There are many Indians running for office in my area, all are first generation immigrants, and every single one of them is running as a Democrat, professing support for the most liberal of all policies.

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  9. prosa123 says: • Website

    I’d like to be one of the 29 hereditary makers of crowns for idols.

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    • Replies: @Anonymous
    "I’d like to be one of the 29 hereditary makers of crowns for idols."

    Bad times have befallen that enterprise my friend. The heyday was around 2008 with the coronation of the King on High, Barack, Lord of the Liberals, Defender of the Communist way, Guide to the Pawns, Protector of the Status to the Virtue Signalers, and Grand Chief of the Tokens.
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  11. Whitney says:

    “I had never realized that John Stewart, Samantha Bee, John Oliver, and Andy Borowitz are all Bhâts.”

    I didn’t know the term for it but I’ve been noticing this a lot recently. The children of entertainers become entertainers. Nothing else. it’s definitely a caste system.

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  12. Clyde says:

    What percentage of Indian Hindus are vegetarians? 90% or more I think. People deprived of meat, poultry, fish are more compliant. Secondarily, they are happy enough to stay in the same grove (caste) as their ancestors. Aside from India we often hear of civilizations where the rulers (kings and aristocracy) got to eat more animal products than the masses. While the masses – peasantry was not getting enough good nutrition to have the energy and rambunctious to rebel. The North Korean rulers do this.

    In India it seems the best proteins that average Hindus get to eat are beans-pulses and dairy products. I have been in Indian grocery stores and the variety of beans-pulses is tremendous and many are imported from India.

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    • Replies: @rec1man
    35% of Hindus are vegetarian

    Most Brahmins and Merchants are vegetarian - and thats the high IQ segment

    Kshatriya and Shudra eat mutton, fish, chicken

    Untouchables eat mutton, fish, chicken and pork and beef - and thats the lowest IQ segment
    , @James Richard

    Aside from India we often hear of civilizations where the rulers (kings and aristocracy) got to eat more animal products than the masses.
     
    Unlike in the Anglosphere where the peasantry could consume as much meat as they were able to raise, poach, or hunt. No sacred cows here. No wonder the British Empire spanned the globe.
    , @Anonymous
    India actually has one of the most significant and longest running rebellions in the world - the Maoist Naxalite rebellion which controls something like a third of Indian territory. The rebels are poor peasants.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OvUVzvt_jtg
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  13. Wonder if this is some kind of Indo – Aryan version of Euro-Aryan guild and craftsmanship culture . These occupations are almost trades but because it’s India everything is weirder and way more out there .

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    • Replies: @James Richard
    The steam engine, and now the internet, has put paid to all that and it has done so globally.
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  14. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @prosa123
    I'd like to be one of the 29 hereditary makers of crowns for idols.

    “I’d like to be one of the 29 hereditary makers of crowns for idols.”

    Bad times have befallen that enterprise my friend. The heyday was around 2008 with the coronation of the King on High, Barack, Lord of the Liberals, Defender of the Communist way, Guide to the Pawns, Protector of the Status to the Virtue Signalers, and Grand Chief of the Tokens.

    Read More
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  15. Rapparee says:

    [T]he Caste System of ancient India… contrasts not only with that Christian democracy, but with every extreme type of Christian aristocracy, in the fact that it does really conceive the social superiority as a spiritual superiority. This not only divides it fundamentally from the fraternity of Christendom, but leaves it standing like a mighty and terraced mountain of pride between the relatively egalitarian levels both of Islam and of China.

    -G.K. Chesterton

    Hindu theology is tricky to discuss because the term “Hinduism” covers such a huge variety of local cults and sects, all with their own idiosyncratic beliefs, but the ideas of reincarnation and karma seem to be massive obstacles to social reform. If your station in life is the result of your own actions in past lives, then it’s your own fault that you were born as an hereditary dung-sweeper. Allowing you to choose a different career would be akin to absolving a criminal from his lawfully-imposed sentence. It’s not at all a random coincidence that the Nazi flag bore a Hindu symbol of good luck.

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  16. as says:

    The mercantile castes have all the money.

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  17. Altai says:

    Is India, under the surface, the world’s most reactionary civilization?

    Under the surface of what? Were they doing a good job hiding it? Maybe I’m just too young to remember when India was like a lot of developing countries trying to modernise full of the hopes of young western-educated leaders, but my mental image of India has never been anything progressive or dynamic. Certainly not socially. Popular culture never tried to give me a different image of India either, still doesn’t!

    Hell, it’s the only country I ever remember Jeremy Clarkson having so many fond things to say about, even moreso when he actually went there, all those people knowing their place and such.

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  18. I always wondered if the surname “Patel” belonged to a caste that was known for selling temporary lodging to travelers.

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    • LOL: Grace Jones
    • Replies: @rec1man
    Patel means village head

    It is a kulak caste of upper level peasants -
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  19. OT.

    Not only is the movie “Detroit” a flop at the box office, but apparently nobody in the city of Detroit itself (or Michigan) is willing to see it, either.

    Note the comment by the black reviewer, Angelica Jade Bastien, blaming the movie’s failure on the fact that it was written and directed by white people.

    http://www.detroitnews.com/story/entertainment/movies/2017/08/12/adam-graham-detroit-movie-box-office-loser/104519658/

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  20. NickG says:

    I was born in Culcutta India in 1960 in the dry embers of the Raj – of British expat parents, my Dad worked for the British independent lubricants company Castrol (now part of BP) – I spent my first decade in India and what was then Ceylon.

    India completely assails the senses. One little bon mot that illustrates something of this.

    Trades and professions get the suffix ‘wallah’, roughly translating to the English slang ‘geezer’ or ‘bloke’. So the milkman was the Dude-wallah, Dohbi-wallah was the chap who washed clothes by hand- there were no washing machines in 60s India and so on. I remember as a child in Bombay hearing a chap advertising his trade, hailing ‘gobbly-wallah!….gobbly-wallah!’ and me asking my folks what he did. They didn’t tell me at the time, and because it clearly created some awkwardness, I remembered it and found out rather later. Though I hasten to add, not by availing myself of the service.

    Anyway, I’m not sure if the trade of gobbly-wallah was a hereditary profession. Knowing how bizarre India can be, it is quite possible.

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    • Replies: @Mark Caplan
    Fellatio.

    In British and Aussie slang, a gob is a mouth. Whether that's the origin of gobble-wallah or gobbly-wallah is anyone's guess.
    , @Anonymous
    Back in the day, I remember an old time veteran of the British colonial Indian army holding court and pontificating about his reminiscences of India.

    Apparently, an Indian milkman does not deliver bottles, or even takes a churn, of milk to the customers' front door. He actually leads his milch-cow to the customers' premises and milks it on the spot there and then.
    An Indian audience member piped up and offered his explanation. In a land of widespread fraud and cheating, he explained, this was the only real true way of ensuring that your daily milk hasn't been watered down.
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  21. fnn says:

    I guess that’s why the Greek-French Savitri Devi moved there.

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  22. Erik L says:

    Any chance that a lot of these are jokes? I mean, if the occupation was a text field rather than a list seems like people might have some fun.

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  23. peterike says:
    @Anon
    With globalist migrations and immigrations, will the entire world have same hierarchies? Jews on top, whites and Asians in middle, browns as helots, blacks as whatever?

    Take Japan. Once, Japanese did everything, from high jobs to low jobs. But most Japanese are well-educated and don't want low jobs. If possible, they wanna move to other nations to get middle jobs. Chinese have same attitude. So, they take over upper middle ranks in US and Canada and Australia.

    Meanwhile, Mexicans occupy helot positons wherever they go.

    And Jews gain elite position wherever they go.

    So, with massive migrations, the whole world will look similar in terms of class.

    What if lots of Japanese moved to the West to fill up middle and upper middle jobs. And what if lower level jobs in Japan were taken over by brown immigrants? And suppose Jews were allowed to move to Japan and take over elite positions.

    Then, US, Japan, Canada, Mexico, Germany, and etc will all have Jews at top, whites and asians as upper middle and middle, browns as helots, and blacks as whatever.

    With globalist migrations and immigrations, will the entire world have same hierarchies? Jews on top, whites and Asians in middle, browns as helots, blacks as whatever?

    More likely Asians will share the top with Jews. Jews and Chinese in America are already well along their way with assortive mating to create Tiger Babushkas, or whatever one calls them (see Zuckerberg). Chinese and Indians have no racial or ethnic guilt complexes and will not step aside for Jews based on Jewish Jedi Mind Tricks. Nor are they exhausted, like Western WASP society, and ready to retreat into mental retirement and give up all power.

    It will be quite some time before Jews start infiltrating China or India (the only nations here that matter) in large numbers, though some are already at it. But the reverse is well under way, of Chinese/Indians infiltrating America and rising to positions of wealth, power and influence. There is a tidal wave of this coming in the next 20 years, as Western universities, especially in U.S. and Australia, have been pouring out wave after wave of Asian graduates, who are now entering the ranks of all the SJW professions: media, news, legal, NGOs, politics, etc. And they are feverishly anti-white in the SJW mold.

    At the same time, because the upper elite is by definition limited, Asians will also form a large part of the middle classes, as whites continue to decline and Asians grow in number. And lots and lots of cross-racial breeding is going to happen. Chinese are already far along in America in mating with whites. Indians are still more tied to traditional marriage cultures, but its ending rapidly with Indians that are schooled in America.

    An open question is whither the white working class? They are still a significant part of the Helot group, but as a group they are declining rapidly due to relentless media, elite and governmental hostility toward them and demographic displacement. The helot class will likely be slightly whitened as sinking whites marry into the rising Hispanics.

    Blacks will remain a major problem that is likely to get even worse. But once whites are downtrodden enough, we might see an overnight change in elite attitudes about blacks, who serve now as a weapon to push whites down. Certainly the Asian infiltration of the elites isn’t going to help blacks very much. I can see a time — though probably 20 or more years out — when the elite turns harshly on blacks and brings things back to a more 50s style mode of governance for them.

    The bottom line is that it will be really important in the coming decades to retain one’s place in the middle- and upper-middle classes. Everything beneath that is going to get very ugly.

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    • Replies: @Robert Hume

    The bottom line is that it will be really important in the coming decades to retain one’s place in the middle- and upper-middle classes. Everything beneath that is going to get very ugly.
     
    Perhaps the white lower classes could be saved by a universal basic income. But this would require a large cut back in immigration, among other things.
    , @kaganovitch
    "Jews and Chinese in America are already well along their way with assortive mating to create Tiger Babushkas, or whatever one calls them (see Zuckerberg)."

    Although not accurate, "Tiger Babushka" is a wonderful coinage.
    , @Alfa158
    One possible outcome: Asians still have enough racial awareness, and lack of racial guilt or telescopic empathy, that they won't continue to subsidize being out-bred by Blacks. Right now they're allied with Blacks and Browns in the fight against Whiteness, but once Whites have faded away, they will start to choke off the subsidies until the undesirables drop to below replacement level fertility.
    , @Lot
    The WWC in California are blending into the Mexican and SE Asian working class.
    , @Old Palo Altan
    As my upper middle class cousin said a few years back: "Mom and Dad will die at home in their beds, with round the clock care. Me? I'll die in the gutter".
    Thus did the "greatest generation" betray its children.
    , @Karl
    24 peterike > And they are feverishly anti-white in the SJW mold

    Asians aren't as stupid as whites. They will change tack the second the benefit-to-themselves equation changes

    No one can show me an asian--originated written or spoken statement attacking Ms Chan for getting with Zuck

    Oh wait - is someone going to claim that Ashkenazim are not white?

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  24. BB753 says:

    I wouldn’t call it reactionary, just static. Hey, it evolved since Vedic times, lol!
    It kind of reminds me of Europe in medieval times, when everyone knew their station in life and abode by it.

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  25. Lot says:

    I wonder if some of these are made up. India was not fully under British control in the 1860s.

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    • Replies: @PiltdownMan

    India was not fully under British control in the 1860s.
     
    Huh?

    The British achieved supremacy in Eastern India/Bengal in 1757 and in Southern India, against the competing French, by the 1780s.

    After a year-long revolt in 1857-1858, the British regained control of India in 1858. All the local minor sultanates and potentates were vassals at that point.
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  26. Hereditary Hermit sounds like a Monty Python character.

    The “Bh” in the caste for satirists is pronounced “Tw.”

    Read More
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  27. Off topic for this one but related to other issues:

    Peter Turchin on understanding the ongoing unpleasantness in society:

    http://peterturchin.com/cliodynamica/intra-elite-competition-a-key-concept-for-understanding-the-dynamics-of-complex-societies/

    The money quote:

    Analysis of past societies indicates that, if intra-elite competition is allowed to escalate, it will increasingly take more violent forms. A typical outcome of this process is a massive outbreak of political violence, often ending in a state collapse, a revolution, or a civil war (or all of the above).

    Seems we are living through it.

    Read More
    • Replies: @27 year old
    I don't see intra-elite conflict though, it seems like a peasant revolt.
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  28. Lot says:
    @Anon
    With globalist migrations and immigrations, will the entire world have same hierarchies? Jews on top, whites and Asians in middle, browns as helots, blacks as whatever?

    Take Japan. Once, Japanese did everything, from high jobs to low jobs. But most Japanese are well-educated and don't want low jobs. If possible, they wanna move to other nations to get middle jobs. Chinese have same attitude. So, they take over upper middle ranks in US and Canada and Australia.

    Meanwhile, Mexicans occupy helot positons wherever they go.

    And Jews gain elite position wherever they go.

    So, with massive migrations, the whole world will look similar in terms of class.

    What if lots of Japanese moved to the West to fill up middle and upper middle jobs. And what if lower level jobs in Japan were taken over by brown immigrants? And suppose Jews were allowed to move to Japan and take over elite positions.

    Then, US, Japan, Canada, Mexico, Germany, and etc will all have Jews at top, whites and asians as upper middle and middle, browns as helots, and blacks as whatever.

    Going forward Jews will be increasingly (1) in Israel, where they by definition will mostly not be elite (2) mixed with the local population to the point they don’t have exceptional IQ or ID as Jewish (3) poorly educated with many children in hasidic compounds.

    A few people from group 3 will secularize and do well, but we will never see anything like the 1940-1990 period when Jews with 115 average IQs were about 4% of the US white population and so visibly dominant in certain sectors.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Chrisnonymous
    That sounds right. It's a little sad. I liked 1940-1990 America, including--yes--it's diversity.
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  29. @Lot
    I wonder if some of these are made up. India was not fully under British control in the 1860s.

    India was not fully under British control in the 1860s.

    Huh?

    The British achieved supremacy in Eastern India/Bengal in 1757 and in Southern India, against the competing French, by the 1780s.

    After a year-long revolt in 1857-1858, the British regained control of India in 1858. All the local minor sultanates and potentates were vassals at that point.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Lot
    They had treaties with local rulers that acknowledged British supremacy over certain things, but it was fairly hands off in much if India then. Enough to have a uniform census up to Western standards? I am not sure.
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  30. anonymous says: • Disclaimer

    OT – But related to India. Earlier this year an Indian muslim snow shoe racer, Tanveer Hussain, was granted entry into the US after the democrats complained that the new administration had denied him a visa. Both NY senators lobbied to get him into the US for a competition in Lake Placid. Shortly after the competition Tanveer was accused of sexual misconduct with a minor.

    That story was covered by the press. At the time it was reported this might have been some misunderstanding due to cultural differences, etc. Since then I have seen nothing on this story.

    I recently searched to see if this issue had been resolved. Searching for ‘Tanveer Hussain’ brings up links to the previous stories from March. But if you dig far enough you will come across a story from August 2nd from an Indian news outlet. It appears he has been indicted by a grand jury for inappropriate sexual contact with a minor.

    Why isn’t this being covered in the US press? Is there anyone from upstate New York on this blog? Are they still covering the story there?

    This is something Senator Schumer should be having to deal with, but apparently it has already been sent down the memory hole while it’s still a work in progress.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Peripatetic commenter

    Why isn’t this being covered in the US press? Is there anyone from upstate New York on this blog? Are they still covering the story there?
     
    Seriously, have you been living under a rock for the last 30 years.

    The current narrative is that Muslims can do no evil ... and they are the last of a long list of protected groups who cannot do any evil.
    , @Chrisnonymous
    I see this was all the work of Clyde Rabideau, who lobbied to get Hussain into the US.

    Rabideau ran for, IIRC, lieutenant governor some years ago. On election eve, he fell asleep on the train and missed the big night, waking up alone in a dark train car. That should have been a fitting end to his political career, but he somehow became mayor of Saranac Lake.

    I gaurantee that getting Hussain here was just an act of self-promotion on his part.
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  31. It is, of course, quite possible that the census takers had their legs pulled by the local populace, or that those collating the census results were filing BS information back to the authorities in Calcutta and London.

    Gawker (of all places ) had a very good article on the practice of thuggee in India, and it speculated that there was more than a little bit of self-promotion and exaggeration in the reports by the local Brits to their superiors back in London about both the extent of the problem and their accounts of their exploits in ridding India of the “widespread” evil.

    http://fortressamerica.gawker.com/a-history-of-thugs-1666707613

    Read More
    • Replies: @epebble
    Hereditary occupations were quite common in pre-industrial world. Many of the surnames we have today like Smith, Miller, Farmer etc., are occupational surnames.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surname#Occupational_surname
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  32. Stasia says:

    More quotations from Sir Charles Dilke’s book “Greater Britain“:

    Dilke

    “found that the difficulties which impede the progress to to universal domination of the English people lie in the conflict with the cheaper races”, and prophesied that “the dearer [races] are … likely to destroy the cheaper peoples, and that Saxondom will rise triumphant from … the struggle.”

    For Dilke, proof of this was that

    “the English in America are absorbing the Germans and the Celts, destroying the Red Indians, and checking the advance of the Chinese.”

    Dilke insisted:

    “The Anglo-Saxon is the only extirpating race om earth. Up to the commencement of the now inevitable destruction of the Red Indians of Central North America, of the Maoris, and of the [indigenous] Australians, by the English colonists, no numerous race has ever been blotted out by an invader.”

    And Dilke prophesied:

    “No possible … events can prevent … Italy, Spain, France, Russia becoming pygmies by the side of such a people.”

    In other words, before Hitler’s daddy was even a gleam in his grand-daddy’s eye, Anglo-America had accomplished more than Hitler ever dreamed of!

    AND Anglo-America is lauded and praised for it!

    I suppose Hitler knew at least that much: nothing succeeds like success, and nothing fails like failure. And, in comparison with Anglo-America, Hitler was an EPIC FAIL!

    Read More
    • Replies: @epebble
    Time is an interesting thing; Even with his superior intellect, he couldn't predict Greater Britain will end up becoming Great Britainistan https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xaSU6QYLnsI
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  33. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer

    What would India be like if it did not have a caste system? In some ways India is just a more ancient version of Mexico: a large body of indigenous people dominated by an invading, Indo-European speaking elite. Without some way to keep the intelligent separate from the less intelligent, genetically speaking, you have no way of ever retaining having a very intelligent elite. What you end up with is a country that in many ways looks a lot like Africa, only with tigers instead of lions.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    In India's case, it impeded competition and the spread of alleles.
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  34. charlie says:

    India in 1860, right after the Mutiny, was a very reactionary civilization.

    One hundred and sixty years later, I wonder if any of those groups still exist.

    The content of varnas and jatis is a powerful one, and actually in line with a lot of isteve world points.

    What is important to also remember is you’ve got castes slipping up and down in status, and a lot of your behavior is moving your caste group up or down that ladder.

    Again not so dissimilar. Italian Americans are now far higher status than they were in the 1920s. German-Americans have been utterly wiped out as a district group. Armenians, well, they are slipping down the ladder into the colored category.

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  35. More from Peter Turchin:

    Second, a critical defining feature of a political violence event, in order for it to be counted in the database, is that someone is killed (see the article why). Because modern medicine is much better at treating gunshot wounds, victims of political violence today are more likely to survive being shot, compared to 100 years ago, and that introduces a certain statistical bias.

    Recent events confirm the prediction?

    http://peterturchin.com/cliodynamica/quantitative-prediction-political-violence-2020s/

    Read More
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  36. @Lot
    Going forward Jews will be increasingly (1) in Israel, where they by definition will mostly not be elite (2) mixed with the local population to the point they don't have exceptional IQ or ID as Jewish (3) poorly educated with many children in hasidic compounds.

    A few people from group 3 will secularize and do well, but we will never see anything like the 1940-1990 period when Jews with 115 average IQs were about 4% of the US white population and so visibly dominant in certain sectors.

    That sounds right. It’s a little sad. I liked 1940-1990 America, including–yes–it’s diversity.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Stan Adams
    Did you like the 1965 immigration act and the 1986 amnesty? The late-'60s crime spike and the white flight? Vietnam? Watergate? Feminism? Gay liberation and the mainstreaming of sexual perversion? The rise of Cultural Marxism?

    My earliest memories are from the late '80s, so I wasn't there to watch it all unfold firsthand. (It must have been a fascinating spectacle.) But seeing what this country is now, and hearing about what it once was, leads me to believe that the folks who ran America in the latter part of the twentieth century ran it into the ground.

    I've been told more than once that everything went to hell around 1970. Again, I wasn't there.
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  37. OP says:

    “‘while at Benares there is a whole caste–the Bhâts–whose hereditary occupation is to “satirize the enemies of the rich, and to praise their friends.”‘

    “I had never realized that John Stewart, Samantha Bee, John Oliver, and Andy Borowitz are all Bhâts.”

    LOL. that was cold Steve. That’s why this conquistador american visits every day. XD

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  38. George says:

    I was hoping an internet search on Bhâts would yield something fun like a video of best Bhât jokes. I personally think the source in the article might have gotten the Bhât thing wrong.

    The closest thing I could find where Bhands.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bhand

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  39. Numinous says:

    You don’t cover yourself in glory by regurgitating observations made by 19th century British colonials in India and using that to pontificate on what India is like today, Mr Sailer! India may or may not be the world’s most reactionary civilization, but it’s an every-changing one, like every other civilization. There’s a world of difference between the India of 1868 and the India of 2017, just like there’s a world of difference between the America of 1868 and that of 2017.

    As for these “surveys” you report on, I’d take them with a huge pinch of salt. The population of India had seen its society and world-view completely upended at the time by the British, and they it knew that the Englishman was the master, at least for the time being. Many people just made things up when the British talked to them in hopes of currying favor and gaining some advantage in a “new’ country.

    You have Indians commenting on your blog, many of whom are sympathetic to your ideology. Listen to them to understand what India is like instead of digging up colonial texts. One comment from the likes of Dot not Feather is worth more than a shelf of colonial writings on the topic.

    As for caste, I understand it’s an anthropological curiosity to you and most of your commenters, who like to take a little bit of real information and spin fantasies around it. The truth is that caste has indeed lost much salience in modern India, though less so in the rural areas. The only sphere of life where it matters is in marriage, but that’s not because the bride and the groom are caste-conscious but because they prefer Mommy to pick their spouses, and Mommy prefers to stick to the caste system. By the next generation, that will change too. Inter-caste marriages in India are like interracial marriages in the US; still a minority phenomenon, but rapidly increasing in proportion.

    Read More
    • Replies: @MBlanc46
    Relax. Take a deep breath.
    , @jimmyriddle
    "I understand it’s an anthropological curiosity"

    It's the driving factor in Indian politics. Forming caste coalitions by handing out goodies, such as affirmative action quotas, is how power is won.

    And, as you say, it governs marriage - that's actually rather important.
    , @MG
    I'm an Indian living in Silicon Valley and a longtime reader of Steve Sailer, and usually sympathetic to his views. Unfortunately, Steve is on thin ice here. Perhaps as part of his next vacation, Steve should cut a trip to India (Indian 5-star hotels are a bargain and service is better than at most American 5-star hotels). He will learn more that way than citing colonial writers.
    , @Dot Not Feather
    Thank you for the kind words. Personally I am a traditionalist (and I think "worlds most reactionary civilization" is a compliment!) but I also dislike the romantic bullshit that gets slathered on any discussion of Indian history and culture by Indians and Westerners alike.


    Many people just made things up when the British talked to them in hopes of currying favor and gaining some advantage in a “new’ country.

     

    I disagree. I think the value of some of those colonial surveys is that they are not tainted by modern political correctness so they accurately depict how people actually thought of themselves. A lot of the early Indologists were not particularly well-versed in Sanskrit or Hindi etc. so they relied on native Pandits who interpreted notions such as caste according to their traditional notions. I believe the Gangetic Plain which was at the peak of its economic strength during that era really did have that kind of hyper-specialization. But as you say it doesn't mean it is relevant to discussion of the present day.


    The truth is that caste has indeed lost much salience in modern India, though less so in the rural areas. The only sphere of life where it matters is in marriage,

     

    That's where it matters the most but it also has some relevance in religious (obviously) and political preferences too.


    but that’s not because the bride and the groom are caste-conscious but because they prefer Mommy to pick their spouses, and Mommy prefers to stick to the caste system. By the next generation, that will change too.

     

    I'm not so sure about that. People have been declaring the demise of caste since before 1947 and here we are discussing it today. Western-style liberalism is dysgenic. The more liberal people become, the less they will marry and have children at all. The traditional-minded will eventually win out for that reason alone.
    , @George
    So the Bhâts don't exist. I had such high hopes. I am inconsolable.
    , @EdgeSlider
    Dude, in the long term we will all be dead. Also heard, India has potential and it will always have it. India is the country of the future, it always will be. So this caste business is going away, and will always be going away.
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  40. @anonymous
    OT - But related to India. Earlier this year an Indian muslim snow shoe racer, Tanveer Hussain, was granted entry into the US after the democrats complained that the new administration had denied him a visa. Both NY senators lobbied to get him into the US for a competition in Lake Placid. Shortly after the competition Tanveer was accused of sexual misconduct with a minor.

    That story was covered by the press. At the time it was reported this might have been some misunderstanding due to cultural differences, etc. Since then I have seen nothing on this story.

    I recently searched to see if this issue had been resolved. Searching for 'Tanveer Hussain' brings up links to the previous stories from March. But if you dig far enough you will come across a story from August 2nd from an Indian news outlet. It appears he has been indicted by a grand jury for inappropriate sexual contact with a minor.

    Why isn't this being covered in the US press? Is there anyone from upstate New York on this blog? Are they still covering the story there?

    This is something Senator Schumer should be having to deal with, but apparently it has already been sent down the memory hole while it's still a work in progress.

    Why isn’t this being covered in the US press? Is there anyone from upstate New York on this blog? Are they still covering the story there?

    Seriously, have you been living under a rock for the last 30 years.

    The current narrative is that Muslims can do no evil … and they are the last of a long list of protected groups who cannot do any evil.

    Read More
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  41. Indians famously revere their sacred cows.
    Please explain why there is an organization called LeatherIndia.org?
    Are they peddling shoes and purses based on roadkill or natural death cows that become tanned hides outside the normal slaughter house channel?
    Marketing people please chime in.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Alfa158
    India has something over 150 million Muslims who have no problem killing and eating cows. I have a very nice pair of leather dress shoes that were made in India.
    , @EdgeSlider
    Short answer: the leather industry is mostly run by Indian Muslims and untouchables. In fact some untouchables were classified as untouchables for this very reason, they killed/ate cows and and worked with their products.
    , @PiltdownMan
    India is one of the world's two or theee biggest exporters of beef. Go figure.
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  42. @peterike

    With globalist migrations and immigrations, will the entire world have same hierarchies? Jews on top, whites and Asians in middle, browns as helots, blacks as whatever?

     

    More likely Asians will share the top with Jews. Jews and Chinese in America are already well along their way with assortive mating to create Tiger Babushkas, or whatever one calls them (see Zuckerberg). Chinese and Indians have no racial or ethnic guilt complexes and will not step aside for Jews based on Jewish Jedi Mind Tricks. Nor are they exhausted, like Western WASP society, and ready to retreat into mental retirement and give up all power.

    It will be quite some time before Jews start infiltrating China or India (the only nations here that matter) in large numbers, though some are already at it. But the reverse is well under way, of Chinese/Indians infiltrating America and rising to positions of wealth, power and influence. There is a tidal wave of this coming in the next 20 years, as Western universities, especially in U.S. and Australia, have been pouring out wave after wave of Asian graduates, who are now entering the ranks of all the SJW professions: media, news, legal, NGOs, politics, etc. And they are feverishly anti-white in the SJW mold.

    At the same time, because the upper elite is by definition limited, Asians will also form a large part of the middle classes, as whites continue to decline and Asians grow in number. And lots and lots of cross-racial breeding is going to happen. Chinese are already far along in America in mating with whites. Indians are still more tied to traditional marriage cultures, but its ending rapidly with Indians that are schooled in America.

    An open question is whither the white working class? They are still a significant part of the Helot group, but as a group they are declining rapidly due to relentless media, elite and governmental hostility toward them and demographic displacement. The helot class will likely be slightly whitened as sinking whites marry into the rising Hispanics.

    Blacks will remain a major problem that is likely to get even worse. But once whites are downtrodden enough, we might see an overnight change in elite attitudes about blacks, who serve now as a weapon to push whites down. Certainly the Asian infiltration of the elites isn't going to help blacks very much. I can see a time -- though probably 20 or more years out -- when the elite turns harshly on blacks and brings things back to a more 50s style mode of governance for them.

    The bottom line is that it will be really important in the coming decades to retain one's place in the middle- and upper-middle classes. Everything beneath that is going to get very ugly.

    The bottom line is that it will be really important in the coming decades to retain one’s place in the middle- and upper-middle classes. Everything beneath that is going to get very ugly.

    Perhaps the white lower classes could be saved by a universal basic income. But this would require a large cut back in immigration, among other things.

    Read More
    • Replies: @nebulafox
    Improved welfare state. Less immigration, especially of the unskilled variant. One is going to require the other, as even liberal stalwarts like Krugman have admitted.

    And people wonder why the SJWs and the Wall Street/Silicon Valley plutocrats love each other.

    , @AM

    Perhaps the white lower classes could be saved by a universal basic income. But this would require a large cut back in immigration, among other things.
     
    Because communism hasn't been quite tried enough. I'm sure it will work this time.
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  43. Jason Liu says:

    Depends what you mean by reactionary. Hierarchy is not the same as caste, functional hierarchies need to be flexible and meritocratic, like imperial China but with better requirements and less corruption.

    ————-

    But Steve, not a word about the news du jour? Some nice white lady SJW turned to roadkill. Regardless of your stance on white supremacy, we should drink.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anonymous

    But Steve, not a word about the news du jour? Some nice white lady SJW turned to roadkill. Regardless of your stance on white supremacy, we should drink.
     
    I'm sure Steve, and a lot of others, are waiting for the full story to come out. Nobody trusts the MSM anymore, and nobody wants to pass judgement based on news reports that may be incomplete or false.
    , @Yan Shen
    Doesn't seem like we'll be getting anything more than that prior oblique post about Charlottesville...
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  44. @peterike

    With globalist migrations and immigrations, will the entire world have same hierarchies? Jews on top, whites and Asians in middle, browns as helots, blacks as whatever?

     

    More likely Asians will share the top with Jews. Jews and Chinese in America are already well along their way with assortive mating to create Tiger Babushkas, or whatever one calls them (see Zuckerberg). Chinese and Indians have no racial or ethnic guilt complexes and will not step aside for Jews based on Jewish Jedi Mind Tricks. Nor are they exhausted, like Western WASP society, and ready to retreat into mental retirement and give up all power.

    It will be quite some time before Jews start infiltrating China or India (the only nations here that matter) in large numbers, though some are already at it. But the reverse is well under way, of Chinese/Indians infiltrating America and rising to positions of wealth, power and influence. There is a tidal wave of this coming in the next 20 years, as Western universities, especially in U.S. and Australia, have been pouring out wave after wave of Asian graduates, who are now entering the ranks of all the SJW professions: media, news, legal, NGOs, politics, etc. And they are feverishly anti-white in the SJW mold.

    At the same time, because the upper elite is by definition limited, Asians will also form a large part of the middle classes, as whites continue to decline and Asians grow in number. And lots and lots of cross-racial breeding is going to happen. Chinese are already far along in America in mating with whites. Indians are still more tied to traditional marriage cultures, but its ending rapidly with Indians that are schooled in America.

    An open question is whither the white working class? They are still a significant part of the Helot group, but as a group they are declining rapidly due to relentless media, elite and governmental hostility toward them and demographic displacement. The helot class will likely be slightly whitened as sinking whites marry into the rising Hispanics.

    Blacks will remain a major problem that is likely to get even worse. But once whites are downtrodden enough, we might see an overnight change in elite attitudes about blacks, who serve now as a weapon to push whites down. Certainly the Asian infiltration of the elites isn't going to help blacks very much. I can see a time -- though probably 20 or more years out -- when the elite turns harshly on blacks and brings things back to a more 50s style mode of governance for them.

    The bottom line is that it will be really important in the coming decades to retain one's place in the middle- and upper-middle classes. Everything beneath that is going to get very ugly.

    “Jews and Chinese in America are already well along their way with assortive mating to create Tiger Babushkas, or whatever one calls them (see Zuckerberg).”

    Although not accurate, “Tiger Babushka” is a wonderful coinage.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Stan Adams
    Whatever you do, don't call the offspring of Jewish/Asian parents tykes. (Think about it.)

    ...

    I was reading an anecdote about a college newspaper editor who, in the frantic final minutes before the edition went to press, absentmindedly signed off on a caption that read: "Janitor Jose Fernandez helps keep the campus spic and span."

    An associate editor happened to be glancing at that page and called the editor over to her desk.

    "Are you sure you want to run this?" the concerned associate editor asked.

    "Yeah, why not?" the annoyed editor replied.

    She turned around and started to walk away ... but then she froze in her tracks and, after a pregnant pause, let out a piercing, blood-curdling scream from the darkest, deepest depths of her petrified soul.

    They changed the caption with literally seconds to spare.
    , @anon
    "Although not accurate, “Tiger Babushka” is a wonderful coinage."
    Too prolix. Chinese + jews = Chews.
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  45. Jimi says:
    @TheJester
    If you have a "vibrant" rigidly enforced caste system like India, then by definition you have diversity and social peace. If the castes (and their related jobs and social roles) are inherited, then the social mechanism is firmly in place to aggressively and permanently promote diversity in all layers of society until the end of time. And, as we are learning, the more castes the better.

    There are definite benefits to a caste system. My guess that the Hindi do not incessantly argue over diversity like we do since if you miss that coveted promotion (or your preferred gender), you patiently wait until your next reincarnation to see if you get it ... as the circle of life turns for eternity. Equally important, your social role via your caste has nothing to do with qualifications. You are assigned your social role and social status based on birth, race, religion, gender, and other immutables, much like affirmative action.

    Thank you iSteve. I knew that Western Civilization had important lessons to learn from the more ancient, staid civilizations. Now we can better see where we are drawing our inspiration.

    P.S. Is Sundar Pichai trying to set up a caste system at Google?

    Traditionally caste has brought social peace. But caste is colliding with modernity and is creating upheavals in India. There are conflicts over caste-based Affirmative Action programs:

    Jat caste riot to be classified as low caste:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jat_reservation_agitation

    “Riots Break Out in India Over a Dominant Caste’s Attempt to Gain ‘Backward’ Status”

    http://time.com/4011001/hardik-patel-protest-arrest-gujarat-obc/

    In Eastern India a Maoist insurgency is fighting the government. They are fueled by the grievances of low caste peasants:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naxalite%E2%80%93Maoist_insurgency

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  46. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer

    The theory is that the roots of the caste system lie in ‘racism’ in that the Aryan invaders of India, for whatever reason, had a deep aversion to ‘mixing their blood’ with the native peoples they conquered.
    Whilst the notion of the conquerors of a land wishing to keep a line of demarcation between themselves and those they conquered is very common, no where but India, seemingly, has the taboo persisted through millennia – in other lands conquered by Steppe peoples, eventually the Steppe folk merged to form ‘one people’ with their subjects. It can be conjectured that something within the habits, characteristics or behavior of pre Aryan Indians was strikingly offensive to the Aryans, hence the strength of the taboo.

    That said, the whole institution gives us some idea of the sheer force of religious stricture in enforcing ‘laws’ which can persist for millennia, and, apparently, cannot be altered by any earthly force. There is, perhaps, a moral here for the politicians of today.
    Likewise the Jewish Sabbath – a compulsory rest day legislated for workers thousands of years ago which even the globalists, neocons and their puppets cannot abolish.

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    • Replies: @YetAnotherAnon
    "Likewise the Jewish Sabbath – a compulsory rest day legislated for workers thousands of years ago which even the globalists, neocons and their puppets cannot abolish."

    The Sabbath is pretty much abolished for British working people in retailing.
    , @Anonymous
    The caste system is likely a syncretism that incorporated pre existing caste structures from the Harappan Civilization, which was already a stratified caste based society.
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  47. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer

    One can see that even reaction can be taken too far, in the case of India.

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  48. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer

    An amalgam of some of the more obscure – and disreputable – castes that Dilke mentions sounds like a good, comprehensive description of today’s ‘Roma’ Gypsies in Europe.
    The inference being that they ‘learned’ their ways long before setting foot in Europe.

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  49. @anonymous
    OT - But related to India. Earlier this year an Indian muslim snow shoe racer, Tanveer Hussain, was granted entry into the US after the democrats complained that the new administration had denied him a visa. Both NY senators lobbied to get him into the US for a competition in Lake Placid. Shortly after the competition Tanveer was accused of sexual misconduct with a minor.

    That story was covered by the press. At the time it was reported this might have been some misunderstanding due to cultural differences, etc. Since then I have seen nothing on this story.

    I recently searched to see if this issue had been resolved. Searching for 'Tanveer Hussain' brings up links to the previous stories from March. But if you dig far enough you will come across a story from August 2nd from an Indian news outlet. It appears he has been indicted by a grand jury for inappropriate sexual contact with a minor.

    Why isn't this being covered in the US press? Is there anyone from upstate New York on this blog? Are they still covering the story there?

    This is something Senator Schumer should be having to deal with, but apparently it has already been sent down the memory hole while it's still a work in progress.

    I see this was all the work of Clyde Rabideau, who lobbied to get Hussain into the US.

    Rabideau ran for, IIRC, lieutenant governor some years ago. On election eve, he fell asleep on the train and missed the big night, waking up alone in a dark train car. That should have been a fitting end to his political career, but he somehow became mayor of Saranac Lake.

    I gaurantee that getting Hussain here was just an act of self-promotion on his part.

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  50. MBlanc46 says:

    And they’re all coming here to become hereditary motel and convenience store owners.

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  51. TheJester says:
    @Anon
    China was taken over by leftist commies... but Chinese are industrious and got into capitalism. So, communists became capitalists. Communist in ideology, capitalist in wealth and power.

    Likewise, many Jews began on the Left. But they are smart and industrious and succeeded in business. So, Jewish Leftists became super-capitalists. Leftist in attitude, capitalist and elitist in reality.

    India? I supposed India gained independence as a 'socialist' nation. But the government power was very limited and most of the society was hardly transformed. Looks like a nation of gypsies.

    I’ve had conversations with Jews who escaped the Soviet Union when it imploded. They wax nostalgically about their elite privileges in the Soviet system … being allowed to “own” large apartments in Moscow, tickets to the Bolshoi, excellent educations in Jewish-run technical institutes. Somehow, after their escape to the West, large numbers of these Jews seem to have ended up in banking of all professions. I don’t know how or why.

    I find trying to understand the rapid transition of stereotypical Jewish communists into stereotypical Jewish capitalists intriguing and personal. My nephew married a Jewish woman from this group of emigres. They later divorced and he married his first wife’s best friend, also from this group of emigres. Both work in the banking industry amid a cadre of Jewish emigres who work in the banking industry.

    One would think that working for a bank would be a humiliating experience for a good communist, even as they try to make a new life for themselves in the West. Can anyone throw some light on this?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anon
    Communism was like one bank for the whole nation.

    From tanks to banks.
    , @AM

    One would think that working for a bank would be a humiliating experience for a good communist, even as they try to make a new life for themselves in the West. Can anyone throw some light on this?
     
    Not really. A bank is really just managing money for people who do actual work. It's not capitalism in the sense of giving people jobs, making cool stuff, or even working hard. Everyone remembers banker's hours.

    They got their old jobs back from the USSR, that's all, with some different rules.
    , @Samuel Skinner
    There are Jews that strongly believed in communism. There are also Jews that parroted the slogans because that is how you got ahead. To get ahead in society you needed to follow the party line (aka not have your own strong beliefs). What group do you think would end up in the upper tiers of the party?
    , @Reg Cæsar

    One would think that working for a bank would be a humiliating experience for a good communist, even as they try to make a new life for themselves in the West. Can anyone throw some light on this?
     
    Yes. Your first mistake was assuming anyone on the Left talks or acts in good faith, or possesses any shame. Take some cynicism supplements.

    Horton hears a Who/Whom.
    , @Jack D
    In the late Soviet Union, (especially after 1967) Jews in the Soviet Union suffered a lot of discrimination. They were banned from the top universities and jobs. Maybe the grandfathers of the bankers you are referring to were dedicated Communists but their generation had soured on the Soviet Union because old fashioned traditional Russian anti-Semitism was now running the show.

    http://www.tanyakhovanova.com/coffins.html
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  52. MBlanc46 says:
    @Numinous
    You don't cover yourself in glory by regurgitating observations made by 19th century British colonials in India and using that to pontificate on what India is like today, Mr Sailer! India may or may not be the world's most reactionary civilization, but it's an every-changing one, like every other civilization. There's a world of difference between the India of 1868 and the India of 2017, just like there's a world of difference between the America of 1868 and that of 2017.

    As for these "surveys" you report on, I'd take them with a huge pinch of salt. The population of India had seen its society and world-view completely upended at the time by the British, and they it knew that the Englishman was the master, at least for the time being. Many people just made things up when the British talked to them in hopes of currying favor and gaining some advantage in a "new' country.

    You have Indians commenting on your blog, many of whom are sympathetic to your ideology. Listen to them to understand what India is like instead of digging up colonial texts. One comment from the likes of Dot not Feather is worth more than a shelf of colonial writings on the topic.

    As for caste, I understand it's an anthropological curiosity to you and most of your commenters, who like to take a little bit of real information and spin fantasies around it. The truth is that caste has indeed lost much salience in modern India, though less so in the rural areas. The only sphere of life where it matters is in marriage, but that's not because the bride and the groom are caste-conscious but because they prefer Mommy to pick their spouses, and Mommy prefers to stick to the caste system. By the next generation, that will change too. Inter-caste marriages in India are like interracial marriages in the US; still a minority phenomenon, but rapidly increasing in proportion.

    Relax. Take a deep breath.

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  53. rec1man says:
    @Clyde
    What percentage of Indian Hindus are vegetarians? 90% or more I think. People deprived of meat, poultry, fish are more compliant. Secondarily, they are happy enough to stay in the same grove (caste) as their ancestors. Aside from India we often hear of civilizations where the rulers (kings and aristocracy) got to eat more animal products than the masses. While the masses - peasantry was not getting enough good nutrition to have the energy and rambunctious to rebel. The North Korean rulers do this.

    In India it seems the best proteins that average Hindus get to eat are beans-pulses and dairy products. I have been in Indian grocery stores and the variety of beans-pulses is tremendous and many are imported from India.

    35% of Hindus are vegetarian

    Most Brahmins and Merchants are vegetarian – and thats the high IQ segment

    Kshatriya and Shudra eat mutton, fish, chicken

    Untouchables eat mutton, fish, chicken and pork and beef – and thats the lowest IQ segment

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    • Replies: @AnotherDad

    Most Brahmins and Merchants are vegetarian – and thats the high IQ segment
     
    Most merchants are vegetarian? Brahmins, sure--though I know plenty that eat chicken. But most merchants--not Jains, but Hindus? And not that most of their meals are vegetarian, but actual vegetarians?

    And then of course there's the Bongs and their fish.
    , @Clyde
    Thanks for the correction!
    , @wootzst
    Your comment is misleading on Shudras and vegetarianism.

    Brahmins were meat eaters, and not just meat eaters but beef eaters. It is due to indigenous influence that some of them adopted vegetarianism. Shudras were indigenous , evident by them not being twice born in the varna/caste system. But all indigenous Indian groups wouldn't have been vegetarian

    Since you have mentioned some time back you are a south Indian Brahmin, you will know that vegetarianism in India is especially concentrated in the Dravidian south. And you will know that the caste system in the South is a Brahmin import and different from the caste system in the north.

    The Southern caste system has only Brahmins and Shudras ; there is no Vaishyas and Kshatriya. The merchants , landowners, agriculturalists and royalty in the South are Shudras , if one goes by the Brahminical caste system but unlike the North, they were not physically subjugated. Shudras can be vegetarian or not . I am a Vellala (Dravidian) from Ceylon and a lot of Vellalas are Shaivites specifically (including many of my relatives and family) ; they are vegetarian from birth .

    Vegetarianism , not eating beef and the special place accorded to cows is not an Aryan custom, it is native and very likely Dravidian since these customs are strongest in the Dravidian south.
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  54. Alfa158 says:
    @Off The Street
    Indians famously revere their sacred cows.
    Please explain why there is an organization called LeatherIndia.org?
    Are they peddling shoes and purses based on roadkill or natural death cows that become tanned hides outside the normal slaughter house channel?
    Marketing people please chime in.

    India has something over 150 million Muslims who have no problem killing and eating cows. I have a very nice pair of leather dress shoes that were made in India.

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  55. rec1man says:
    @Hapalong Cassidy
    I always wondered if the surname "Patel" belonged to a caste that was known for selling temporary lodging to travelers.

    Patel means village head

    It is a kulak caste of upper level peasants -

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  56. peterike says:

    For an excellent look at contemporary India, I recommend “Capital” by Rana Dasgupta. The levels of corruption in India are really quite amazing.

    And it’s a great look at the social landscape of Delhi. Some choice quotes that help you realize our Asian future as this miserable elite gains status in white nations:

    “The fact that the city’s out surfaces function as a giant bedroom, bathroom and closet for the hundreds of thousands who live in it unenclosed, helps to give the roads a run-down air.”

    “Like so much of the rest of the city’s infrastructure, these gap-toothed flyovers look ancient even when they have only just been built. Delhi’s recent multibillion-dollar makeoever, completed just in time for the 2010 Commonwealth Games, is already difficult to remember: down the centre of main roads, great sections of the new dividing walls have broken off and fallen into the path of traffic, while the roofs are falling off the rusty Games stadium, whose car parks like cracked and empty.”

    “Often, they [the wealthy] also campaigned for the slums near their streets to be demolished; sometimes it actually happened and they were astonished and outraged when their maids then stopped turning up for work.”

    “In the first decade of the twenty-first century, some 15,000 Indian farmers committed suicide every year. The only way out.”

    “Even as their own incomes multiplied manifold, they fought furiously against pay rises for the people who served them.”

    “India’s pool of billionaires expanded rapidly, increasing their wealth from less than 1 percent of national income in 1996 to 22 percent in 2008. Sixty percent of this billionaire wealth was built up from sectors closely controlled by government: property development, infrastructure, construction, mining, telecoms, cement and media.”

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    However bad India is, Bangladesh and Pakistan are worse.

    And even worse is Nigeria - a nation of which Bryan Caplan declares 'it makes as much sense to exclude Nigerians from America as it does to farm Antarctica'.
    Thus spake The Economist.
    , @Numinous
    Delhi to Indians is like Washington to middle Americans. A corrupt swamp full of entitled people.
    , @epebble
    15,000 Indian farmers committed suicide every year

    It looks like a big number, but not really huge compared to a billion people.

    For comparison, we have a quarter of population but 50,000 overdose deaths.

    http://www.foxnews.com/health/2016/12/09/grim-tally-soars-more-than-50k-overdose-deaths-in-us.html

    And this “Even as their own incomes multiplied manifold, they fought furiously against pay rises for the people who served them.” sounds like something they learned at Harvard or Wharton. It is amazing how successful we have been in spreading the virus of rapacious capitalism to the far corners of the world.
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  57. Alfa158 says:
    @peterike

    With globalist migrations and immigrations, will the entire world have same hierarchies? Jews on top, whites and Asians in middle, browns as helots, blacks as whatever?

     

    More likely Asians will share the top with Jews. Jews and Chinese in America are already well along their way with assortive mating to create Tiger Babushkas, or whatever one calls them (see Zuckerberg). Chinese and Indians have no racial or ethnic guilt complexes and will not step aside for Jews based on Jewish Jedi Mind Tricks. Nor are they exhausted, like Western WASP society, and ready to retreat into mental retirement and give up all power.

    It will be quite some time before Jews start infiltrating China or India (the only nations here that matter) in large numbers, though some are already at it. But the reverse is well under way, of Chinese/Indians infiltrating America and rising to positions of wealth, power and influence. There is a tidal wave of this coming in the next 20 years, as Western universities, especially in U.S. and Australia, have been pouring out wave after wave of Asian graduates, who are now entering the ranks of all the SJW professions: media, news, legal, NGOs, politics, etc. And they are feverishly anti-white in the SJW mold.

    At the same time, because the upper elite is by definition limited, Asians will also form a large part of the middle classes, as whites continue to decline and Asians grow in number. And lots and lots of cross-racial breeding is going to happen. Chinese are already far along in America in mating with whites. Indians are still more tied to traditional marriage cultures, but its ending rapidly with Indians that are schooled in America.

    An open question is whither the white working class? They are still a significant part of the Helot group, but as a group they are declining rapidly due to relentless media, elite and governmental hostility toward them and demographic displacement. The helot class will likely be slightly whitened as sinking whites marry into the rising Hispanics.

    Blacks will remain a major problem that is likely to get even worse. But once whites are downtrodden enough, we might see an overnight change in elite attitudes about blacks, who serve now as a weapon to push whites down. Certainly the Asian infiltration of the elites isn't going to help blacks very much. I can see a time -- though probably 20 or more years out -- when the elite turns harshly on blacks and brings things back to a more 50s style mode of governance for them.

    The bottom line is that it will be really important in the coming decades to retain one's place in the middle- and upper-middle classes. Everything beneath that is going to get very ugly.

    One possible outcome: Asians still have enough racial awareness, and lack of racial guilt or telescopic empathy, that they won’t continue to subsidize being out-bred by Blacks. Right now they’re allied with Blacks and Browns in the fight against Whiteness, but once Whites have faded away, they will start to choke off the subsidies until the undesirables drop to below replacement level fertility.

    Read More
    • Replies: @James Richard
    Breeding rates at a demographic scale aren't really dependent on racial awareness, however they are correlated rather strongly with economic wealth. This does not at all imply a future high birth rate among Chinese-Americans.
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  58. Thomm says:

    On this note, Steve wrote an article way back n 2006 wondering if India had tapped the bottom of its high-IQ barrel.

    It obviously has not. It is the fastest-growing economy of the top-50, and currently grows at 7.5% even as the developed world is growing at 1.5%. Sure, it is still from a low base, but most countries at a similar base are not growing as fast.

    If and when India’s growth slams down to the same low speed that the US, EU, Japan are at, then, yes, it has reached the bottom of its High-IQ barrel. But not until then….

    I think Steve should update that topic, and rescind the hasty 2006 proclamation that India was near its ceiling of progress then..

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    • Replies: @nebulafox
    When a country has less people starving and dying of stupid diseases, the number of people with a higher IQ grow. Not that it is the sole factor in economic development-all IQ does is measure how fast you can learn-but that's something to be mentioned.
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  59. Beckow says:

    India is mankind’s biggest problem and it appears unsolvable. It is beyond conservative, stratified, leftist, whatever label makes sense in the West is meaningless when talking about India. It is a post-civilization, it is what happens after thousands of years of over-population and brutal fight for mere survival. Any rules are gone – it is all how one helps himself and the closely defined family or a clan.

    The error of the last 1-2 generations is that elites in the West have decided to allow India to export itself. That will inevitably lead to India-like conditions in the West. What was contained for most of history will spread. And we will become like them over time. Who thought this would be a good idea?

    (Ancient Hebrews at least partially descended from the Elamite-Sumer-Dravidian civilization around the Indian Ocean. They were very advanced, invented most of the old underpinnings of later civilizations. Hebrews consciously saw themselves as a western colonial outpost of the Elamite-Sumerian-Dravidians – Abraham is based on a Dravidian model and his name is Dravidian. He just went ‘west’. They took many of their early terms, religious ideas, and probably at least part of the elite from them,but of course the bulk were simple Semitic tribes. Today India is in spite of many layers also a descendant of that ancient civilization. They are smart, but completely dysfunctional at this point.)

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    • Replies: @dearieme
    "Ancient Hebrews at least partially descended from the Elamite-Sumer-Dravidian civilization around the Indian Ocean." Really; is that what the ancient DNA says? Or is it just fiction from the Old Testament?
    , @AnotherDad

    India is mankind’s biggest problem and it appears unsolvable.
     
    Huh? Where do you get this.

    India strikes me as one of the world's non-problems. It is rapidly improving in economic terms, but--until there is ridiculously cheap germ-line genetic manipulation--will continue to be stupid and sort of muddle through.

    China is a "problem"--not for the Chinese but for everyone else accommodating their rise.

    And Africa is pretty clearly mankind's biggest problem in that African TFR is not falling nearly rapidly enough and if Africans are not contained, but allowed to migrate they will spread their civilizationally-adverse mental capabilities and traits and swamp civilization.
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  60. @Peripatetic commenter
    Off topic for this one but related to other issues:

    Peter Turchin on understanding the ongoing unpleasantness in society:

    http://peterturchin.com/cliodynamica/intra-elite-competition-a-key-concept-for-understanding-the-dynamics-of-complex-societies/

    The money quote:

    Analysis of past societies indicates that, if intra-elite competition is allowed to escalate, it will increasingly take more violent forms. A typical outcome of this process is a massive outbreak of political violence, often ending in a state collapse, a revolution, or a civil war (or all of the above).
     
    Seems we are living through it.

    I don’t see intra-elite conflict though, it seems like a peasant revolt.

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    • Replies: @Peripatetic commenter
    For the last thirty years or so the elites have tried to find ever more marginal groups for us to be worried about in order to hold their coalition of the fringes together.

    Then, along came another member of the elites (Trump) who said, hey, what if I appeal to all those people forgotten by the other elites. He, after all, has to make it possible for his offspring to stay in the ranks of the elites.

    So, what you see is simply a manifestation of the intra-elite conflict.

    Did you expect them to take up arms personally and get out in the streets and protest?
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  61. nebulafox says:

    You’d be surprised. India, like China, has been going through an urbanization period over the past couple of decades that, in terms of scale, has had few counterparts in history. The Indian economy continues to boom and the Indian middle class continues to grow, to the point where you have far too many qualified applicants for the IITs and sundry to take. I’m no Fukuyamian, but it is rather inevitable that things like caste are increasingly irrelevant for this demographic.

    I’d say there are plenty of places in the world far more “reactionary” than contemporary India. Just look at the other places that made up old British India, for starters: Pakistan, Bangladesh, and Burma. India, however messy and corrupt it is, sans the Emergency has had a tradition of democracy. And ever since they ditched the License Raj… (one only wonders how far India would get if the government and bureaucracy were an aid to development as opposed to an obstacle, as was the case for the Asian Tigers and China.)

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    • Replies: @EdgeSlider
    Actually, the Indian government has already vastly expanded the pool of IIT student intake in an effort at higher education "massification" (a typical Indianism)
    And predictably, the standards at the newer institutions have already found wanting.
    , @random observer
    Probably true.

    One can find plenty of writing including from young, outward-looking Indians, condemning all manner of structural restrictions in their society. Some just about corruption or outdated administrative habits, but some about social and caste based legacies.

    Certainly they remain a feature. But we outside can make too much of them.

    Bonus points for using the term Fukuyamian and denying being one.

    Sometimes I'd like to set up an Antifukuyamian Society. Cadet members think he's wrong. Inner members think he's wrong and are glad of it.
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  62. epebble says:
    @PiltdownMan
    It is, of course, quite possible that the census takers had their legs pulled by the local populace, or that those collating the census results were filing BS information back to the authorities in Calcutta and London.

    Gawker (of all places ) had a very good article on the practice of thuggee in India, and it speculated that there was more than a little bit of self-promotion and exaggeration in the reports by the local Brits to their superiors back in London about both the extent of the problem and their accounts of their exploits in ridding India of the "widespread" evil.

    http://fortressamerica.gawker.com/a-history-of-thugs-1666707613

    Hereditary occupations were quite common in pre-industrial world. Many of the surnames we have today like Smith, Miller, Farmer etc., are occupational surnames.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surname#Occupational_surname

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  63. dearieme says:
    @Beckow
    India is mankind's biggest problem and it appears unsolvable. It is beyond conservative, stratified, leftist, whatever label makes sense in the West is meaningless when talking about India. It is a post-civilization, it is what happens after thousands of years of over-population and brutal fight for mere survival. Any rules are gone - it is all how one helps himself and the closely defined family or a clan.

    The error of the last 1-2 generations is that elites in the West have decided to allow India to export itself. That will inevitably lead to India-like conditions in the West. What was contained for most of history will spread. And we will become like them over time. Who thought this would be a good idea?

    (Ancient Hebrews at least partially descended from the Elamite-Sumer-Dravidian civilization around the Indian Ocean. They were very advanced, invented most of the old underpinnings of later civilizations. Hebrews consciously saw themselves as a western colonial outpost of the Elamite-Sumerian-Dravidians - Abraham is based on a Dravidian model and his name is Dravidian. He just went 'west'. They took many of their early terms, religious ideas, and probably at least part of the elite from them,but of course the bulk were simple Semitic tribes. Today India is in spite of many layers also a descendant of that ancient civilization. They are smart, but completely dysfunctional at this point.)

    “Ancient Hebrews at least partially descended from the Elamite-Sumer-Dravidian civilization around the Indian Ocean.” Really; is that what the ancient DNA says? Or is it just fiction from the Old Testament?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Beckow
    Ancient DNA is at this point very spotty and minimal, we might find out more as more tests are done. There is a strong DNA correlation between male Y-chromosome DNA in Jews and the northern Indian ocean area (that includes ancient Sumeria, southern Arabian peninsula, southern Iran and NW India). There is less with more western groups or with North Africa. But more data is needed.

    Old Testament is a book with myths, stories and 'fiction'. But it is also a realistic source of information on how ancient Hebrews perceived themselves and the world. They thought that they came from Elam and the east, they saw themselves as an outpost in Canaan of a much more important core civilization. They could had lied to themselves, but why? People even then took these things seriously, it was their foundational myth. I think they described it roughly as they thought it happened. And it probably happened that way - they original 'elite' came from Elam and merged with nomadic, Semitic tribes. Something very similar happened in Mesopotamia and India. There Dravidians mixed with primitive native tribes, and then were in turn over-layed by Indo-European invasion. And it created a mess in India, the native aborigine element genetically prevailed. Similar to what one can see in Latin America in the last 500 years.
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  64. nebulafox says:
    @Thomm
    On this note, Steve wrote an article way back n 2006 wondering if India had tapped the bottom of its high-IQ barrel.

    It obviously has not. It is the fastest-growing economy of the top-50, and currently grows at 7.5% even as the developed world is growing at 1.5%. Sure, it is still from a low base, but most countries at a similar base are not growing as fast.

    If and when India's growth slams down to the same low speed that the US, EU, Japan are at, then, yes, it has reached the bottom of its High-IQ barrel. But not until then....

    I think Steve should update that topic, and rescind the hasty 2006 proclamation that India was near its ceiling of progress then..

    When a country has less people starving and dying of stupid diseases, the number of people with a higher IQ grow. Not that it is the sole factor in economic development-all IQ does is measure how fast you can learn-but that’s something to be mentioned.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Thomm
    You are correct. This is partly why Indians are successful not just in the US (where they are the highest-income ethnic group of all), but in Britain, Singapore, etc.

    It is one of the only groups where the eventual outcome could either be very high or remain very low - we just can't predict it....

    I am rooting for them, for the world would just become a better place if India reached middle-income...

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  65. nebulafox says:
    @Robert Hume

    The bottom line is that it will be really important in the coming decades to retain one’s place in the middle- and upper-middle classes. Everything beneath that is going to get very ugly.
     
    Perhaps the white lower classes could be saved by a universal basic income. But this would require a large cut back in immigration, among other things.

    Improved welfare state. Less immigration, especially of the unskilled variant. One is going to require the other, as even liberal stalwarts like Krugman have admitted.

    And people wonder why the SJWs and the Wall Street/Silicon Valley plutocrats love each other.

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  66. @Numinous
    You don't cover yourself in glory by regurgitating observations made by 19th century British colonials in India and using that to pontificate on what India is like today, Mr Sailer! India may or may not be the world's most reactionary civilization, but it's an every-changing one, like every other civilization. There's a world of difference between the India of 1868 and the India of 2017, just like there's a world of difference between the America of 1868 and that of 2017.

    As for these "surveys" you report on, I'd take them with a huge pinch of salt. The population of India had seen its society and world-view completely upended at the time by the British, and they it knew that the Englishman was the master, at least for the time being. Many people just made things up when the British talked to them in hopes of currying favor and gaining some advantage in a "new' country.

    You have Indians commenting on your blog, many of whom are sympathetic to your ideology. Listen to them to understand what India is like instead of digging up colonial texts. One comment from the likes of Dot not Feather is worth more than a shelf of colonial writings on the topic.

    As for caste, I understand it's an anthropological curiosity to you and most of your commenters, who like to take a little bit of real information and spin fantasies around it. The truth is that caste has indeed lost much salience in modern India, though less so in the rural areas. The only sphere of life where it matters is in marriage, but that's not because the bride and the groom are caste-conscious but because they prefer Mommy to pick their spouses, and Mommy prefers to stick to the caste system. By the next generation, that will change too. Inter-caste marriages in India are like interracial marriages in the US; still a minority phenomenon, but rapidly increasing in proportion.

    “I understand it’s an anthropological curiosity”

    It’s the driving factor in Indian politics. Forming caste coalitions by handing out goodies, such as affirmative action quotas, is how power is won.

    And, as you say, it governs marriage – that’s actually rather important.

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  67. Beckow says:
    @dearieme
    "Ancient Hebrews at least partially descended from the Elamite-Sumer-Dravidian civilization around the Indian Ocean." Really; is that what the ancient DNA says? Or is it just fiction from the Old Testament?

    Ancient DNA is at this point very spotty and minimal, we might find out more as more tests are done. There is a strong DNA correlation between male Y-chromosome DNA in Jews and the northern Indian ocean area (that includes ancient Sumeria, southern Arabian peninsula, southern Iran and NW India). There is less with more western groups or with North Africa. But more data is needed.

    Old Testament is a book with myths, stories and ‘fiction’. But it is also a realistic source of information on how ancient Hebrews perceived themselves and the world. They thought that they came from Elam and the east, they saw themselves as an outpost in Canaan of a much more important core civilization. They could had lied to themselves, but why? People even then took these things seriously, it was their foundational myth. I think they described it roughly as they thought it happened. And it probably happened that way – they original ‘elite’ came from Elam and merged with nomadic, Semitic tribes. Something very similar happened in Mesopotamia and India. There Dravidians mixed with primitive native tribes, and then were in turn over-layed by Indo-European invasion. And it created a mess in India, the native aborigine element genetically prevailed. Similar to what one can see in Latin America in the last 500 years.

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  68. @27 year old
    I don't see intra-elite conflict though, it seems like a peasant revolt.

    For the last thirty years or so the elites have tried to find ever more marginal groups for us to be worried about in order to hold their coalition of the fringes together.

    Then, along came another member of the elites (Trump) who said, hey, what if I appeal to all those people forgotten by the other elites. He, after all, has to make it possible for his offspring to stay in the ranks of the elites.

    So, what you see is simply a manifestation of the intra-elite conflict.

    Did you expect them to take up arms personally and get out in the streets and protest?

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    • Replies: @Peripatetic commenter
    Moreover, I suspect that what many of the elites really want is a world government so they have bigger fiefdoms and can skim even larger amounts off the top.

    That seems to have been stopped for the moment ...
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  69. A reasonably balanced article:

    I’m An Ex-Google Woman Tech Leader And I’m Sick Of Our Approach To Diversity!… by Vidya Narayanan

    we paid premium salaries to bring a few women who did well in our interviews. But, they lacked the energy to put us into overdrive. Worse, they were starting to drain the energy from the rest of the team. Eventually, we had to do the right thing for the company and let them go.

    … (our kids) are biologically meant to be fluent in math and analytics …

    https://medium.com/the-mission/im-an-ex-google-woman-tech-leader-and-i-m-sick-of-our-approach-to-diversity-17008c5fe999

    The name Narayanan was also the name of a Dalit president of India – KR Narayanan. However, some wiki bios of people called Narayanan describe scribe caste beginnings.

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    • Replies: @rec1man
    Narayanan is one of the names of the hindu god Vishnu

    her first name Vidya is very very comm0n among Tamil Brahmins
    Vidya in Sanskrit means Knowledge

    This woman is a Tamil Brahmin,
    , @res
    Thank you so much for that! Finally, a woman who lives it, gets it, AND is willing to go on record. I wonder how much criticism she will get from the pro-diversity side despite the virtue signalling bits. The comments are excellent as well.

    Another sample, but please go read the whole thing if you are interested in the women in tech issue:

    Feminist outbursts are driving even the most genuine of men away from us. Some men do want to understand, support and grow the women in tech community. But when we kick and scream about diversity without solving the root of the problem, we are alienating everybody, even the ones that want to help.
     
    (I would add "blame and shame the men in tech" to the kicking and screaming part)

    Link repeated to make it easy to go read it: https://medium.com/the-mission/im-an-ex-google-woman-tech-leader-and-i-m-sick-of-our-approach-to-diversity-17008c5fe999

    I see the same sort of issue in women's sports advocacy and find it so much easier to deal with viewpoints like Vidya's than with the "Serena Williams can beat the best men and you are sexist if you say different" crew.

    P.S. The article she links at the beginning to help establish her "feminist credibility" and keep the usual suspects from tuning out is also interesting: https://medium.com/the-mission/balancing-brains-beauty-boobs-booty-787f9f78605b

    P.P.S. This should really get a link in one of the Damore threads.
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  70. As an ex-Indian, I can assure you that is 100% correct. India’s caste system is the World’s oldest (>2000 years?) and only functioning genetics based apartheid system. It unlike the South African one, has religious sanction in the concept of “varna” – Sanskrit for “color” in the Bagdvat Gita or some crap like that. Even today the “untouchables” are lynched like in the Jim Crowe days in parts of rural India.
    It is oppressive and very much active, just ignore all the caste apologetics coming from “educated”, “westernized” silver tongued frauds from the Indian American “community”.
    Well, American society is headed the same way. America’s future is more India than Brazil.

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  71. @kaganovitch
    "Jews and Chinese in America are already well along their way with assortive mating to create Tiger Babushkas, or whatever one calls them (see Zuckerberg)."

    Although not accurate, "Tiger Babushka" is a wonderful coinage.

    Whatever you do, don’t call the offspring of Jewish/Asian parents tykes. (Think about it.)

    I was reading an anecdote about a college newspaper editor who, in the frantic final minutes before the edition went to press, absentmindedly signed off on a caption that read: “Janitor Jose Fernandez helps keep the campus spic and span.”

    An associate editor happened to be glancing at that page and called the editor over to her desk.

    “Are you sure you want to run this?” the concerned associate editor asked.

    “Yeah, why not?” the annoyed editor replied.

    She turned around and started to walk away … but then she froze in her tracks and, after a pregnant pause, let out a piercing, blood-curdling scream from the darkest, deepest depths of her petrified soul.

    They changed the caption with literally seconds to spare.

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  72. Lot says:
    @PiltdownMan

    India was not fully under British control in the 1860s.
     
    Huh?

    The British achieved supremacy in Eastern India/Bengal in 1757 and in Southern India, against the competing French, by the 1780s.

    After a year-long revolt in 1857-1858, the British regained control of India in 1858. All the local minor sultanates and potentates were vassals at that point.

    They had treaties with local rulers that acknowledged British supremacy over certain things, but it was fairly hands off in much if India then. Enough to have a uniform census up to Western standards? I am not sure.

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  73. Lot says:
    @peterike

    With globalist migrations and immigrations, will the entire world have same hierarchies? Jews on top, whites and Asians in middle, browns as helots, blacks as whatever?

     

    More likely Asians will share the top with Jews. Jews and Chinese in America are already well along their way with assortive mating to create Tiger Babushkas, or whatever one calls them (see Zuckerberg). Chinese and Indians have no racial or ethnic guilt complexes and will not step aside for Jews based on Jewish Jedi Mind Tricks. Nor are they exhausted, like Western WASP society, and ready to retreat into mental retirement and give up all power.

    It will be quite some time before Jews start infiltrating China or India (the only nations here that matter) in large numbers, though some are already at it. But the reverse is well under way, of Chinese/Indians infiltrating America and rising to positions of wealth, power and influence. There is a tidal wave of this coming in the next 20 years, as Western universities, especially in U.S. and Australia, have been pouring out wave after wave of Asian graduates, who are now entering the ranks of all the SJW professions: media, news, legal, NGOs, politics, etc. And they are feverishly anti-white in the SJW mold.

    At the same time, because the upper elite is by definition limited, Asians will also form a large part of the middle classes, as whites continue to decline and Asians grow in number. And lots and lots of cross-racial breeding is going to happen. Chinese are already far along in America in mating with whites. Indians are still more tied to traditional marriage cultures, but its ending rapidly with Indians that are schooled in America.

    An open question is whither the white working class? They are still a significant part of the Helot group, but as a group they are declining rapidly due to relentless media, elite and governmental hostility toward them and demographic displacement. The helot class will likely be slightly whitened as sinking whites marry into the rising Hispanics.

    Blacks will remain a major problem that is likely to get even worse. But once whites are downtrodden enough, we might see an overnight change in elite attitudes about blacks, who serve now as a weapon to push whites down. Certainly the Asian infiltration of the elites isn't going to help blacks very much. I can see a time -- though probably 20 or more years out -- when the elite turns harshly on blacks and brings things back to a more 50s style mode of governance for them.

    The bottom line is that it will be really important in the coming decades to retain one's place in the middle- and upper-middle classes. Everything beneath that is going to get very ugly.

    The WWC in California are blending into the Mexican and SE Asian working class.

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    • Replies: @Thomm

    The WWC in California are blending into the Mexican and SE Asian working class.
     
    As it should. Plus, the WUC is blending into the Indian/Chinese/Persian/Korean UC in California...
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  74. Anon says: • Disclaimer
    @TheJester
    I've had conversations with Jews who escaped the Soviet Union when it imploded. They wax nostalgically about their elite privileges in the Soviet system ... being allowed to "own" large apartments in Moscow, tickets to the Bolshoi, excellent educations in Jewish-run technical institutes. Somehow, after their escape to the West, large numbers of these Jews seem to have ended up in banking of all professions. I don't know how or why.

    I find trying to understand the rapid transition of stereotypical Jewish communists into stereotypical Jewish capitalists intriguing and personal. My nephew married a Jewish woman from this group of emigres. They later divorced and he married his first wife's best friend, also from this group of emigres. Both work in the banking industry amid a cadre of Jewish emigres who work in the banking industry.

    One would think that working for a bank would be a humiliating experience for a good communist, even as they try to make a new life for themselves in the West. Can anyone throw some light on this?

    Communism was like one bank for the whole nation.

    From tanks to banks.

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  75. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @peterike
    For an excellent look at contemporary India, I recommend "Capital" by Rana Dasgupta. The levels of corruption in India are really quite amazing.

    And it's a great look at the social landscape of Delhi. Some choice quotes that help you realize our Asian future as this miserable elite gains status in white nations:

    "The fact that the city's out surfaces function as a giant bedroom, bathroom and closet for the hundreds of thousands who live in it unenclosed, helps to give the roads a run-down air."

    "Like so much of the rest of the city's infrastructure, these gap-toothed flyovers look ancient even when they have only just been built. Delhi's recent multibillion-dollar makeoever, completed just in time for the 2010 Commonwealth Games, is already difficult to remember: down the centre of main roads, great sections of the new dividing walls have broken off and fallen into the path of traffic, while the roofs are falling off the rusty Games stadium, whose car parks like cracked and empty."

    "Often, they [the wealthy] also campaigned for the slums near their streets to be demolished; sometimes it actually happened and they were astonished and outraged when their maids then stopped turning up for work."

    "In the first decade of the twenty-first century, some 15,000 Indian farmers committed suicide every year. The only way out."

    "Even as their own incomes multiplied manifold, they fought furiously against pay rises for the people who served them."

    "India's pool of billionaires expanded rapidly, increasing their wealth from less than 1 percent of national income in 1996 to 22 percent in 2008. Sixty percent of this billionaire wealth was built up from sectors closely controlled by government: property development, infrastructure, construction, mining, telecoms, cement and media."

    However bad India is, Bangladesh and Pakistan are worse.

    And even worse is Nigeria – a nation of which Bryan Caplan declares ‘it makes as much sense to exclude Nigerians from America as it does to farm Antarctica’.
    Thus spake The Economist.

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  76. @Off The Street
    Indians famously revere their sacred cows.
    Please explain why there is an organization called LeatherIndia.org?
    Are they peddling shoes and purses based on roadkill or natural death cows that become tanned hides outside the normal slaughter house channel?
    Marketing people please chime in.

    Short answer: the leather industry is mostly run by Indian Muslims and untouchables. In fact some untouchables were classified as untouchables for this very reason, they killed/ate cows and and worked with their products.

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  77. @TheJester
    If you have a "vibrant" rigidly enforced caste system like India, then by definition you have diversity and social peace. If the castes (and their related jobs and social roles) are inherited, then the social mechanism is firmly in place to aggressively and permanently promote diversity in all layers of society until the end of time. And, as we are learning, the more castes the better.

    There are definite benefits to a caste system. My guess that the Hindi do not incessantly argue over diversity like we do since if you miss that coveted promotion (or your preferred gender), you patiently wait until your next reincarnation to see if you get it ... as the circle of life turns for eternity. Equally important, your social role via your caste has nothing to do with qualifications. You are assigned your social role and social status based on birth, race, religion, gender, and other immutables, much like affirmative action.

    Thank you iSteve. I knew that Western Civilization had important lessons to learn from the more ancient, staid civilizations. Now we can better see where we are drawing our inspiration.

    P.S. Is Sundar Pichai trying to set up a caste system at Google?

    If you have a “vibrant” rigidly enforced caste system like India, then by definition you have diversity and social peace.

    Because repression. Incredible stifling repression. Peace like North Korea has peace. There’s no real opportunity to resist effectively.

    Where and when it becomes possible to resist the oppression then people do so. So modern India where there’s a some daylight you have both actual insurgencies, and mass migration to improve ones lots, and successful demands for political allocation–like reservations–and agitation against such demands (reservation riots).

    Diversity creates conflict. It’s fundamental. The caste system–like feudalism–is a social system of trying to lock in the classes in some fashion to achieve stability and good looting for those on top. But it only works until … it doesn’t.

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    • Replies: @EdgeSlider
    ..works until some aggressive barbarians like the Muslim (India 1000 years ago) invaders come calling.
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  78. @Clyde
    What percentage of Indian Hindus are vegetarians? 90% or more I think. People deprived of meat, poultry, fish are more compliant. Secondarily, they are happy enough to stay in the same grove (caste) as their ancestors. Aside from India we often hear of civilizations where the rulers (kings and aristocracy) got to eat more animal products than the masses. While the masses - peasantry was not getting enough good nutrition to have the energy and rambunctious to rebel. The North Korean rulers do this.

    In India it seems the best proteins that average Hindus get to eat are beans-pulses and dairy products. I have been in Indian grocery stores and the variety of beans-pulses is tremendous and many are imported from India.

    Aside from India we often hear of civilizations where the rulers (kings and aristocracy) got to eat more animal products than the masses.

    Unlike in the Anglosphere where the peasantry could consume as much meat as they were able to raise, poach, or hunt. No sacred cows here. No wonder the British Empire spanned the globe.

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  79. @Waylon 347
    Wonder if this is some kind of Indo - Aryan version of Euro-Aryan guild and craftsmanship culture . These occupations are almost trades but because it's India everything is weirder and way more out there .

    The steam engine, and now the internet, has put paid to all that and it has done so globally.

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  80. @AnotherDad

    If you have a “vibrant” rigidly enforced caste system like India, then by definition you have diversity and social peace.
     
    Because repression. Incredible stifling repression. Peace like North Korea has peace. There's no real opportunity to resist effectively.

    Where and when it becomes possible to resist the oppression then people do so. So modern India where there's a some daylight you have both actual insurgencies, and mass migration to improve ones lots, and successful demands for political allocation--like reservations--and agitation against such demands (reservation riots).

    Diversity creates conflict. It's fundamental. The caste system--like feudalism--is a social system of trying to lock in the classes in some fashion to achieve stability and good looting for those on top. But it only works until ... it doesn't.

    ..works until some aggressive barbarians like the Muslim (India 1000 years ago) invaders come calling.

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    • Replies: @anonymous

    ..works until some aggressive barbarians like the Muslim (India 1000 years ago) invaders come calling.

     

    Those "barbarians" gave that spiritually bankrupt land some memorable things such as, architecture, food, poetry, etc... and most importantly, a true understanding of God, not the batshit crazy polytheism which is practiced by every other peoples.

    If not for them "barbarians," 150million souls of now would still be worshipping animals and an assortment of feuding "gods," who resort to rape and other skullduggery, to get their way. Seriously!!

    Now, given that your kind has taken full possession of that land for 70 years now, what does it have to show for its standard of living? A big middle finger to sending 100 satellites into orbit, mars mission, nuclear weapons, etc.

    Internal state sponsored terrorism against minorities, by *** in and out of uniform, poor man suicides, large scale baby/child deaths, rapes, humongous scams, greed and corruption at every level, a PM who believes his land has/had the medical knowledge in plastic surgery to transplant an elephant's head atop a human, etc...

    I suppose that is the reason dicks like you became ex-Indians? Yeah?
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  81. @rec1man
    35% of Hindus are vegetarian

    Most Brahmins and Merchants are vegetarian - and thats the high IQ segment

    Kshatriya and Shudra eat mutton, fish, chicken

    Untouchables eat mutton, fish, chicken and pork and beef - and thats the lowest IQ segment

    Most Brahmins and Merchants are vegetarian – and thats the high IQ segment

    Most merchants are vegetarian? Brahmins, sure–though I know plenty that eat chicken. But most merchants–not Jains, but Hindus? And not that most of their meals are vegetarian, but actual vegetarians?

    And then of course there’s the Bongs and their fish.

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    • Replies: @rec1man
    All Jains are extreme vegetarians, dont even eat certain plant foods

    Most non-Jain, Hindu merchants are also vegetarian

    The brahmin-merchant grouping is predominantly vegetarian , which is why most upscale flats and apartments have vegetarian only rule to keep out undesirables

    certain lower ranked brahmins such as bengali brahmins eat fish

    yes, some brahmins eat chicken etc, but it is hidden - in the arranged marriage
    system, they investigate not just the potential bride and groom , but also their relatives
    for deviancies - such as do any eat non-veg food, do any smoke or drink or do drugs or elope outside caste

    The Patels were originally Shudra, and ate meat, about 200 years ago, they upgraded themselves to Vaishya by becoming vegetarian

    The dividing line between Vaishya and Shudra is Vaishya has vegetarian diet

    About a 100 years ago, the census had a split between Clean Shudra ( vegetarian ) and Unclean Shudra ( non-vegetarian ) ;
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  82. Thomm says:
    @nebulafox
    When a country has less people starving and dying of stupid diseases, the number of people with a higher IQ grow. Not that it is the sole factor in economic development-all IQ does is measure how fast you can learn-but that's something to be mentioned.

    You are correct. This is partly why Indians are successful not just in the US (where they are the highest-income ethnic group of all), but in Britain, Singapore, etc.

    It is one of the only groups where the eventual outcome could either be very high or remain very low – we just can’t predict it….

    I am rooting for them, for the world would just become a better place if India reached middle-income…

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  83. @nebulafox
    You'd be surprised. India, like China, has been going through an urbanization period over the past couple of decades that, in terms of scale, has had few counterparts in history. The Indian economy continues to boom and the Indian middle class continues to grow, to the point where you have far too many qualified applicants for the IITs and sundry to take. I'm no Fukuyamian, but it is rather inevitable that things like caste are increasingly irrelevant for this demographic.

    I'd say there are plenty of places in the world far more "reactionary" than contemporary India. Just look at the other places that made up old British India, for starters: Pakistan, Bangladesh, and Burma. India, however messy and corrupt it is, sans the Emergency has had a tradition of democracy. And ever since they ditched the License Raj... (one only wonders how far India would get if the government and bureaucracy were an aid to development as opposed to an obstacle, as was the case for the Asian Tigers and China.)

    Actually, the Indian government has already vastly expanded the pool of IIT student intake in an effort at higher education “massification” (a typical Indianism)
    And predictably, the standards at the newer institutions have already found wanting.

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  84. HBD Guy says:

    What about a blog post on this Steve?

    https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/how-do-life/201708/the-case-not-giving-grades

    The Case for Not Giving Grades
    Furthering intrinsic motivation while reducing undue student stress.
    Posted Aug 10, 2017
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    Wikimedia, CC 3.0
    Source: Wikimedia, CC 3.0
    A University of Georgia professor is being ridiculed for offering a class in which students can give themselves any grade they want.

    Predictably, that’s pointed to as the latest example of colleges’ dumbing-down so a bachelor’s degree attests to little more than having paid all that money.

    And certainly, legitimate arguments can be made in favor of grades. After all, few of us would go to work every day if we didn’t get paid—Grades are students’ pay. Indeed, most students do work harder and thus learn more when they have to earn a good grade.

    But underdiscussed, a case can be made not only for allowing students to grade themselves but for eliminating grades except for on a comprehensive exam that must be passed before graduation. (See this article’s last section.)

    Intrinsic motivation is superior to extrinsic. We’d rather our child behave well because s/he believes it’s the right thing to do than simply to get a reward or avoid a punishment. After all, throughout life, we’re asked to do the right thing in the absence of external consequences. Eliminating grades moves motivation from extrinsic to intrinsic.

    And if the instructor does his or her job—teaching material that’s important to students’ lives, does so in a compelling way, and gives assignments that are meaningful to students, many will work hard. Issuing grades is a way for professors to get away with poor instruction—Even in the worst-taught courses, most students will work hard to get the grade.

    Students focusing on the grade causes many to cut class, use Cliff’s Notes, cheat on exams, and buy term papers—That’s a thriving industry that would decline if there were no grades and if, before getting a diploma, students had to pass the comprehensive graduation exam described below.

    Of course, some students aren’t mature enough to work hard despite a lack of grades, and candidly, when I was in college, one professor did tell us upfront we’d all get A’s and I did work less because of that. But it’s at least arguable that greater net good accrues from eliminating grades.

    The case for eliminating grades is strengthened by the need to reduce student stress. Today’s college students face greater pressure than we may acknowledge. Today, many students who did poorly in high school are being pushed into college, where they usually do poorly despite hard work—To not go to college is viewed, unfortunately, as a path to second-class citizenship. That’s ironic because the competent tradesperson is worthy of at least as much respect as is the typical career-undertrained bachelor’s degree holder from Podunk State. And all college students are facing a more challenging future than did the previous generation College and housing are much less affordable today and the job market for good jobs is tougher. Ever more white-collar jobs are requiring technical and soft skills and the Damoclean swords of automation and offshoring hang close to employees’ necks.

    The graduation exam

    Yes, before granting students a bachelor’s degree, they should be required to pass an exam attesting to bachelor’s-level competence in reading, writing, critical thinking, quantitative reasoning, citizenship, connoisseurship, and in one’s major. While of course, that high-stakes exam would be stressful, it serves the crucial purpose of ensuring that the diploma is worth more than the paper it’s written on.

    But it’s undue piety to tsk-tsk at a professor who dares to try an experiment in building intrinsic motivation while reducing student stress by, in one course, allowing students to grade themselves. I’d like to see an experiment in which one of the nation’s colleges that is struggling to stay afloat, eliminated all grades except for said comprehensive exam.

    Update: A reader, Peter Christiansen, emailed me to say that the New York Times just reported on a successful such experiment with middle-school students.

    Dr. Nemko’s nine books are available. You can reach career and personal coach Marty Nemko at mnemko@comcast.net (link sends e-mail).

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    • Replies: @res

    The graduation exam

    Yes, before granting students a bachelor’s degree, they should be required to pass an exam attesting to bachelor’s-level competence in reading, writing, critical thinking, quantitative reasoning, citizenship, connoisseurship, and in one’s major. While of course, that high-stakes exam would be stressful, it serves the crucial purpose of ensuring that the diploma is worth more than the paper it’s written on.
    ...
    Update: A reader, Peter Christiansen, emailed me to say that the New York Times just reported on a successful such experiment with middle-school students.
     
    Link to the NYT article: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/11/nyregion/mastery-based-learning-no-grades.html

    School demographic information for Middle School 442 Carroll Gardens School For Innovation: http://public-schools.startclass.com/l/61402/New-Horizons-School

    Interestingly the school is mostly Hispanic and Black. I wonder how the program will work out. I think the big problem with the competency based approach is that typically disparate impact is even worse than the status quo. Unless the test is watered down so much as to be basically useless.

    I think it is worth mentioning that I think the people who most like the idea of no grades are the same people who least like the idea of a final test requirement.
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  85. @Alfa158
    One possible outcome: Asians still have enough racial awareness, and lack of racial guilt or telescopic empathy, that they won't continue to subsidize being out-bred by Blacks. Right now they're allied with Blacks and Browns in the fight against Whiteness, but once Whites have faded away, they will start to choke off the subsidies until the undesirables drop to below replacement level fertility.

    Breeding rates at a demographic scale aren’t really dependent on racial awareness, however they are correlated rather strongly with economic wealth. This does not at all imply a future high birth rate among Chinese-Americans.

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  86. @Beckow
    India is mankind's biggest problem and it appears unsolvable. It is beyond conservative, stratified, leftist, whatever label makes sense in the West is meaningless when talking about India. It is a post-civilization, it is what happens after thousands of years of over-population and brutal fight for mere survival. Any rules are gone - it is all how one helps himself and the closely defined family or a clan.

    The error of the last 1-2 generations is that elites in the West have decided to allow India to export itself. That will inevitably lead to India-like conditions in the West. What was contained for most of history will spread. And we will become like them over time. Who thought this would be a good idea?

    (Ancient Hebrews at least partially descended from the Elamite-Sumer-Dravidian civilization around the Indian Ocean. They were very advanced, invented most of the old underpinnings of later civilizations. Hebrews consciously saw themselves as a western colonial outpost of the Elamite-Sumerian-Dravidians - Abraham is based on a Dravidian model and his name is Dravidian. He just went 'west'. They took many of their early terms, religious ideas, and probably at least part of the elite from them,but of course the bulk were simple Semitic tribes. Today India is in spite of many layers also a descendant of that ancient civilization. They are smart, but completely dysfunctional at this point.)

    India is mankind’s biggest problem and it appears unsolvable.

    Huh? Where do you get this.

    India strikes me as one of the world’s non-problems. It is rapidly improving in economic terms, but–until there is ridiculously cheap germ-line genetic manipulation–will continue to be stupid and sort of muddle through.

    China is a “problem”–not for the Chinese but for everyone else accommodating their rise.

    And Africa is pretty clearly mankind’s biggest problem in that African TFR is not falling nearly rapidly enough and if Africans are not contained, but allowed to migrate they will spread their civilizationally-adverse mental capabilities and traits and swamp civilization.

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    • Agree: Lot
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    The Economist magazine is 'mankind's biggest problem'.
    , @Beckow
    India is the world's biggest problem because it has 1.4 billion people who live in an over-crowded, permanently dysfunctional country, with a lack of resources, lack of social cohesion, a civilization that has been taken apart and has become a brutal Malthusian fight for survival. There is very little that can be improved there and most people are trying to leave, at any cost. When you allow hundreds of millions of people from the Indian subcontinent to migrate to the better parts of the world, they will swamp and change for the worse all those places. And there are hundreds of millions that will actively try to leave (incl. Pakistan, Bangladesh). It is an unmanageable disaster for the West. Over time it will turn into a kind of India. This is not good, these are post-civilization trends.

    I agree that the Sub-Saharan Africa has been coming up and challenging India as the biggest problem for humanity, you are correct. But China less so, thanks to Mao and the rigid communist system, more resources, better culture, etc... I think parts of Middle East and Southeast Asia are more likely to cause massive issues for mankind in the future.

    Did I answer your question? Do you know anyone - anyone, anywhere - who is sane and has family, who would relocate to live in India? Of course, not. So your 'rapidly improving' is just a slogan, it means nothing in India context.
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  87. DB Cooper says:

    Lots of people are fascinated by India because its civilization and social structure are so different than the other parts of the world. Equally clueless are people to modern day India as a country, its politics and its national mindset. How much do people in the world at large know about India since its creation in 1947? I would say not much. But if you ask India’s neighbors what do they think of India there will only be one answer. A bully. This may be a shock to most people because you may have all kinds of stereotypes about Indian and India but a bully is probably the last thing you would have in mind. But a bully is precisely what India’s neighbors can all agreed on. For years Indians have been saying that they have only one friend in its neighborhood. And that is Bhutan. But now even Bhutanese are turning against India because of its bullying and overbearing altitude.

    For people who are interested please check out this interesting blog by a native Bhutanese.

    http://wangchasangey.blogspot.com/2017/08/an-authoritarian-india-tends-to-be.html

    Really Fascinating.

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  88. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @AnotherDad

    India is mankind’s biggest problem and it appears unsolvable.
     
    Huh? Where do you get this.

    India strikes me as one of the world's non-problems. It is rapidly improving in economic terms, but--until there is ridiculously cheap germ-line genetic manipulation--will continue to be stupid and sort of muddle through.

    China is a "problem"--not for the Chinese but for everyone else accommodating their rise.

    And Africa is pretty clearly mankind's biggest problem in that African TFR is not falling nearly rapidly enough and if Africans are not contained, but allowed to migrate they will spread their civilizationally-adverse mental capabilities and traits and swamp civilization.

    The Economist magazine is ‘mankind’s biggest problem’.

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  89. @Anonymous
    The theory is that the roots of the caste system lie in 'racism' in that the Aryan invaders of India, for whatever reason, had a deep aversion to 'mixing their blood' with the native peoples they conquered.
    Whilst the notion of the conquerors of a land wishing to keep a line of demarcation between themselves and those they conquered is very common, no where but India, seemingly, has the taboo persisted through millennia - in other lands conquered by Steppe peoples, eventually the Steppe folk merged to form 'one people' with their subjects. It can be conjectured that something within the habits, characteristics or behavior of pre Aryan Indians was strikingly offensive to the Aryans, hence the strength of the taboo.

    That said, the whole institution gives us some idea of the sheer force of religious stricture in enforcing 'laws' which can persist for millennia, and, apparently, cannot be altered by any earthly force. There is, perhaps, a moral here for the politicians of today.
    Likewise the Jewish Sabbath - a compulsory rest day legislated for workers thousands of years ago which even the globalists, neocons and their puppets cannot abolish.

    “Likewise the Jewish Sabbath – a compulsory rest day legislated for workers thousands of years ago which even the globalists, neocons and their puppets cannot abolish.”

    The Sabbath is pretty much abolished for British working people in retailing.

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  90. @peterike

    With globalist migrations and immigrations, will the entire world have same hierarchies? Jews on top, whites and Asians in middle, browns as helots, blacks as whatever?

     

    More likely Asians will share the top with Jews. Jews and Chinese in America are already well along their way with assortive mating to create Tiger Babushkas, or whatever one calls them (see Zuckerberg). Chinese and Indians have no racial or ethnic guilt complexes and will not step aside for Jews based on Jewish Jedi Mind Tricks. Nor are they exhausted, like Western WASP society, and ready to retreat into mental retirement and give up all power.

    It will be quite some time before Jews start infiltrating China or India (the only nations here that matter) in large numbers, though some are already at it. But the reverse is well under way, of Chinese/Indians infiltrating America and rising to positions of wealth, power and influence. There is a tidal wave of this coming in the next 20 years, as Western universities, especially in U.S. and Australia, have been pouring out wave after wave of Asian graduates, who are now entering the ranks of all the SJW professions: media, news, legal, NGOs, politics, etc. And they are feverishly anti-white in the SJW mold.

    At the same time, because the upper elite is by definition limited, Asians will also form a large part of the middle classes, as whites continue to decline and Asians grow in number. And lots and lots of cross-racial breeding is going to happen. Chinese are already far along in America in mating with whites. Indians are still more tied to traditional marriage cultures, but its ending rapidly with Indians that are schooled in America.

    An open question is whither the white working class? They are still a significant part of the Helot group, but as a group they are declining rapidly due to relentless media, elite and governmental hostility toward them and demographic displacement. The helot class will likely be slightly whitened as sinking whites marry into the rising Hispanics.

    Blacks will remain a major problem that is likely to get even worse. But once whites are downtrodden enough, we might see an overnight change in elite attitudes about blacks, who serve now as a weapon to push whites down. Certainly the Asian infiltration of the elites isn't going to help blacks very much. I can see a time -- though probably 20 or more years out -- when the elite turns harshly on blacks and brings things back to a more 50s style mode of governance for them.

    The bottom line is that it will be really important in the coming decades to retain one's place in the middle- and upper-middle classes. Everything beneath that is going to get very ugly.

    As my upper middle class cousin said a few years back: “Mom and Dad will die at home in their beds, with round the clock care. Me? I’ll die in the gutter”.
    Thus did the “greatest generation” betray its children.

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    • Replies: @peterike

    As my upper middle class cousin said a few years back: “Mom and Dad will die at home in their beds, with round the clock care. Me? I’ll die in the gutter”. Thus did the “greatest generation” betray its children.

     

    That's what I say, too. Debt slave that I am, for various reasons, I fully expect my "retirement" plan once I'm too old to work is going to be assisted suicide, assisted by myself.
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  91. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @Clyde
    What percentage of Indian Hindus are vegetarians? 90% or more I think. People deprived of meat, poultry, fish are more compliant. Secondarily, they are happy enough to stay in the same grove (caste) as their ancestors. Aside from India we often hear of civilizations where the rulers (kings and aristocracy) got to eat more animal products than the masses. While the masses - peasantry was not getting enough good nutrition to have the energy and rambunctious to rebel. The North Korean rulers do this.

    In India it seems the best proteins that average Hindus get to eat are beans-pulses and dairy products. I have been in Indian grocery stores and the variety of beans-pulses is tremendous and many are imported from India.

    India actually has one of the most significant and longest running rebellions in the world – the Maoist Naxalite rebellion which controls something like a third of Indian territory. The rebels are poor peasants.

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    • Replies: @Cloud of Probable Matricide
    Maoist Naxalite?

    Not all Maoists are like that.
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  92. peterike says:
    @Old Palo Altan
    As my upper middle class cousin said a few years back: "Mom and Dad will die at home in their beds, with round the clock care. Me? I'll die in the gutter".
    Thus did the "greatest generation" betray its children.

    As my upper middle class cousin said a few years back: “Mom and Dad will die at home in their beds, with round the clock care. Me? I’ll die in the gutter”. Thus did the “greatest generation” betray its children.

    That’s what I say, too. Debt slave that I am, for various reasons, I fully expect my “retirement” plan once I’m too old to work is going to be assisted suicide, assisted by myself.

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  93. OT

    The Guardian reports on Newham, a highly diverse area of London (only 17% white Brits in 2011), who are as far as I know the only UK council to have compulsory registration of all landlords (the majority of UK under-40s either rent or live at home, due to massive house prices).

    Landlords earning more than £2500 a year (£50 a week, there are 0 London rooms at this price, let alone an entire property) are supposed to declare the fact to the taxman. Out of 27,000 landlords in the borough, 13,000 have not declared the fact to HMRC. Guardian commenters are apoplectic, but none of them seem to have linked nearly 50% tax evasion to the very diverse demography. Any such comments will I guess have been deleted.

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/aug/13/half-of-landlords-in-one-london-borough-fail-to-declare-rental-income

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  94. Moozuffernuggur, is that like Fahrvergnügen?

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  95. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @Anonymous
    What would India be like if it did not have a caste system? In some ways India is just a more ancient version of Mexico: a large body of indigenous people dominated by an invading, Indo-European speaking elite. Without some way to keep the intelligent separate from the less intelligent, genetically speaking, you have no way of ever retaining having a very intelligent elite. What you end up with is a country that in many ways looks a lot like Africa, only with tigers instead of lions.

    In India’s case, it impeded competition and the spread of alleles.

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  96. Numinous says:
    @peterike
    For an excellent look at contemporary India, I recommend "Capital" by Rana Dasgupta. The levels of corruption in India are really quite amazing.

    And it's a great look at the social landscape of Delhi. Some choice quotes that help you realize our Asian future as this miserable elite gains status in white nations:

    "The fact that the city's out surfaces function as a giant bedroom, bathroom and closet for the hundreds of thousands who live in it unenclosed, helps to give the roads a run-down air."

    "Like so much of the rest of the city's infrastructure, these gap-toothed flyovers look ancient even when they have only just been built. Delhi's recent multibillion-dollar makeoever, completed just in time for the 2010 Commonwealth Games, is already difficult to remember: down the centre of main roads, great sections of the new dividing walls have broken off and fallen into the path of traffic, while the roofs are falling off the rusty Games stadium, whose car parks like cracked and empty."

    "Often, they [the wealthy] also campaigned for the slums near their streets to be demolished; sometimes it actually happened and they were astonished and outraged when their maids then stopped turning up for work."

    "In the first decade of the twenty-first century, some 15,000 Indian farmers committed suicide every year. The only way out."

    "Even as their own incomes multiplied manifold, they fought furiously against pay rises for the people who served them."

    "India's pool of billionaires expanded rapidly, increasing their wealth from less than 1 percent of national income in 1996 to 22 percent in 2008. Sixty percent of this billionaire wealth was built up from sectors closely controlled by government: property development, infrastructure, construction, mining, telecoms, cement and media."

    Delhi to Indians is like Washington to middle Americans. A corrupt swamp full of entitled people.

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  97. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @Anonymous
    The theory is that the roots of the caste system lie in 'racism' in that the Aryan invaders of India, for whatever reason, had a deep aversion to 'mixing their blood' with the native peoples they conquered.
    Whilst the notion of the conquerors of a land wishing to keep a line of demarcation between themselves and those they conquered is very common, no where but India, seemingly, has the taboo persisted through millennia - in other lands conquered by Steppe peoples, eventually the Steppe folk merged to form 'one people' with their subjects. It can be conjectured that something within the habits, characteristics or behavior of pre Aryan Indians was strikingly offensive to the Aryans, hence the strength of the taboo.

    That said, the whole institution gives us some idea of the sheer force of religious stricture in enforcing 'laws' which can persist for millennia, and, apparently, cannot be altered by any earthly force. There is, perhaps, a moral here for the politicians of today.
    Likewise the Jewish Sabbath - a compulsory rest day legislated for workers thousands of years ago which even the globalists, neocons and their puppets cannot abolish.

    The caste system is likely a syncretism that incorporated pre existing caste structures from the Harappan Civilization, which was already a stratified caste based society.

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  98. Beckow says:
    @AnotherDad

    India is mankind’s biggest problem and it appears unsolvable.
     
    Huh? Where do you get this.

    India strikes me as one of the world's non-problems. It is rapidly improving in economic terms, but--until there is ridiculously cheap germ-line genetic manipulation--will continue to be stupid and sort of muddle through.

    China is a "problem"--not for the Chinese but for everyone else accommodating their rise.

    And Africa is pretty clearly mankind's biggest problem in that African TFR is not falling nearly rapidly enough and if Africans are not contained, but allowed to migrate they will spread their civilizationally-adverse mental capabilities and traits and swamp civilization.

    India is the world’s biggest problem because it has 1.4 billion people who live in an over-crowded, permanently dysfunctional country, with a lack of resources, lack of social cohesion, a civilization that has been taken apart and has become a brutal Malthusian fight for survival. There is very little that can be improved there and most people are trying to leave, at any cost. When you allow hundreds of millions of people from the Indian subcontinent to migrate to the better parts of the world, they will swamp and change for the worse all those places. And there are hundreds of millions that will actively try to leave (incl. Pakistan, Bangladesh). It is an unmanageable disaster for the West. Over time it will turn into a kind of India. This is not good, these are post-civilization trends.

    I agree that the Sub-Saharan Africa has been coming up and challenging India as the biggest problem for humanity, you are correct. But China less so, thanks to Mao and the rigid communist system, more resources, better culture, etc… I think parts of Middle East and Southeast Asia are more likely to cause massive issues for mankind in the future.

    Did I answer your question? Do you know anyone – anyone, anywhere – who is sane and has family, who would relocate to live in India? Of course, not. So your ‘rapidly improving’ is just a slogan, it means nothing in India context.

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    • Replies: @PiltdownMan
    India is certainly crowded. It's density of population is in the same ballpark as the Netherlands, Israel, the U.K. And Japan.

    I'm not sure what the point about lack of social cohesion is- as India marks it's 70th anniversary today as an independent country with an uninterrupted political system and no great internal conflict.

    As for stagnation, it's hard to make the case, given that it has been one of the fastest growing larger economies of late.

    And I see no data supporting the notion of great outflows from India.
    , @Thomm
    Do you know anyone – anyone, anywhere – who is sane and has family, who would relocate to live in India?

    There are thousands of Western expats (British, French, Australian, etc.) who are living in India quite happily. It is pretty good if you have some money...

    You are really quite ignorant.

    Then again, white nationalists have negro IQs.
    , @Brachmane
    Camp of the Saints nonsense... India is about as crowded as Japan or New Jersey. It has more arable land than China and thus a higher Malthusian limit. In any case, it's TFR is for the most part under control. China actually overshot in population control and is facing a western style demographic crisis that will deeply limit future growth. Indians may have to immigrate to China in the future, you know, to help out.
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  99. MG says:
    @Numinous
    You don't cover yourself in glory by regurgitating observations made by 19th century British colonials in India and using that to pontificate on what India is like today, Mr Sailer! India may or may not be the world's most reactionary civilization, but it's an every-changing one, like every other civilization. There's a world of difference between the India of 1868 and the India of 2017, just like there's a world of difference between the America of 1868 and that of 2017.

    As for these "surveys" you report on, I'd take them with a huge pinch of salt. The population of India had seen its society and world-view completely upended at the time by the British, and they it knew that the Englishman was the master, at least for the time being. Many people just made things up when the British talked to them in hopes of currying favor and gaining some advantage in a "new' country.

    You have Indians commenting on your blog, many of whom are sympathetic to your ideology. Listen to them to understand what India is like instead of digging up colonial texts. One comment from the likes of Dot not Feather is worth more than a shelf of colonial writings on the topic.

    As for caste, I understand it's an anthropological curiosity to you and most of your commenters, who like to take a little bit of real information and spin fantasies around it. The truth is that caste has indeed lost much salience in modern India, though less so in the rural areas. The only sphere of life where it matters is in marriage, but that's not because the bride and the groom are caste-conscious but because they prefer Mommy to pick their spouses, and Mommy prefers to stick to the caste system. By the next generation, that will change too. Inter-caste marriages in India are like interracial marriages in the US; still a minority phenomenon, but rapidly increasing in proportion.

    I’m an Indian living in Silicon Valley and a longtime reader of Steve Sailer, and usually sympathetic to his views. Unfortunately, Steve is on thin ice here. Perhaps as part of his next vacation, Steve should cut a trip to India (Indian 5-star hotels are a bargain and service is better than at most American 5-star hotels). He will learn more that way than citing colonial writers.

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  100. Thomm says:
    @Lot
    The WWC in California are blending into the Mexican and SE Asian working class.

    The WWC in California are blending into the Mexican and SE Asian working class.

    As it should. Plus, the WUC is blending into the Indian/Chinese/Persian/Korean UC in California…

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  101. @Numinous
    You don't cover yourself in glory by regurgitating observations made by 19th century British colonials in India and using that to pontificate on what India is like today, Mr Sailer! India may or may not be the world's most reactionary civilization, but it's an every-changing one, like every other civilization. There's a world of difference between the India of 1868 and the India of 2017, just like there's a world of difference between the America of 1868 and that of 2017.

    As for these "surveys" you report on, I'd take them with a huge pinch of salt. The population of India had seen its society and world-view completely upended at the time by the British, and they it knew that the Englishman was the master, at least for the time being. Many people just made things up when the British talked to them in hopes of currying favor and gaining some advantage in a "new' country.

    You have Indians commenting on your blog, many of whom are sympathetic to your ideology. Listen to them to understand what India is like instead of digging up colonial texts. One comment from the likes of Dot not Feather is worth more than a shelf of colonial writings on the topic.

    As for caste, I understand it's an anthropological curiosity to you and most of your commenters, who like to take a little bit of real information and spin fantasies around it. The truth is that caste has indeed lost much salience in modern India, though less so in the rural areas. The only sphere of life where it matters is in marriage, but that's not because the bride and the groom are caste-conscious but because they prefer Mommy to pick their spouses, and Mommy prefers to stick to the caste system. By the next generation, that will change too. Inter-caste marriages in India are like interracial marriages in the US; still a minority phenomenon, but rapidly increasing in proportion.

    Thank you for the kind words. Personally I am a traditionalist (and I think “worlds most reactionary civilization” is a compliment!) but I also dislike the romantic bullshit that gets slathered on any discussion of Indian history and culture by Indians and Westerners alike.

    Many people just made things up when the British talked to them in hopes of currying favor and gaining some advantage in a “new’ country.

    I disagree. I think the value of some of those colonial surveys is that they are not tainted by modern political correctness so they accurately depict how people actually thought of themselves. A lot of the early Indologists were not particularly well-versed in Sanskrit or Hindi etc. so they relied on native Pandits who interpreted notions such as caste according to their traditional notions. I believe the Gangetic Plain which was at the peak of its economic strength during that era really did have that kind of hyper-specialization. But as you say it doesn’t mean it is relevant to discussion of the present day.

    The truth is that caste has indeed lost much salience in modern India, though less so in the rural areas. The only sphere of life where it matters is in marriage,

    That’s where it matters the most but it also has some relevance in religious (obviously) and political preferences too.

    but that’s not because the bride and the groom are caste-conscious but because they prefer Mommy to pick their spouses, and Mommy prefers to stick to the caste system. By the next generation, that will change too.

    I’m not so sure about that. People have been declaring the demise of caste since before 1947 and here we are discussing it today. Western-style liberalism is dysgenic. The more liberal people become, the less they will marry and have children at all. The traditional-minded will eventually win out for that reason alone.

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    • Replies: @kaganovitch
    "Western-style liberalism is dysgenic. The more liberal people become, the less they will marry and have children at all. The traditional-minded will eventually win out for that reason alone.":


    This is mirrored in the American Jewish community; Orthodox Jewish(traditional) households are around %30 of NYC metro area Jewish households. Orthodox children are around %65 of Jewish children in NYC metro. As the fellow said "The future belongs to those who show up for it".
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  102. @Peripatetic commenter
    For the last thirty years or so the elites have tried to find ever more marginal groups for us to be worried about in order to hold their coalition of the fringes together.

    Then, along came another member of the elites (Trump) who said, hey, what if I appeal to all those people forgotten by the other elites. He, after all, has to make it possible for his offspring to stay in the ranks of the elites.

    So, what you see is simply a manifestation of the intra-elite conflict.

    Did you expect them to take up arms personally and get out in the streets and protest?

    Moreover, I suspect that what many of the elites really want is a world government so they have bigger fiefdoms and can skim even larger amounts off the top.

    That seems to have been stopped for the moment …

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  103. rec1man says:
    @AnotherDad

    Most Brahmins and Merchants are vegetarian – and thats the high IQ segment
     
    Most merchants are vegetarian? Brahmins, sure--though I know plenty that eat chicken. But most merchants--not Jains, but Hindus? And not that most of their meals are vegetarian, but actual vegetarians?

    And then of course there's the Bongs and their fish.

    All Jains are extreme vegetarians, dont even eat certain plant foods

    Most non-Jain, Hindu merchants are also vegetarian

    The brahmin-merchant grouping is predominantly vegetarian , which is why most upscale flats and apartments have vegetarian only rule to keep out undesirables

    certain lower ranked brahmins such as bengali brahmins eat fish

    yes, some brahmins eat chicken etc, but it is hidden – in the arranged marriage
    system, they investigate not just the potential bride and groom , but also their relatives
    for deviancies – such as do any eat non-veg food, do any smoke or drink or do drugs or elope outside caste

    The Patels were originally Shudra, and ate meat, about 200 years ago, they upgraded themselves to Vaishya by becoming vegetarian

    The dividing line between Vaishya and Shudra is Vaishya has vegetarian diet

    About a 100 years ago, the census had a split between Clean Shudra ( vegetarian ) and Unclean Shudra ( non-vegetarian ) ;

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    • Replies: @JohnnyWalker123
    Sikhs are vegetarians. On the other hand, I believe some of the Southern Indian groups (non-Brahmin) eat beef.
    , @Bondo73
    Most second generation Tamil Brahmin-Americans (1) marry whites and (2) eat beef (especially females).

    Most Gujaratis do not.

    Who are the clean and unclean Shudras now?
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  104. AM says:
    @Robert Hume

    The bottom line is that it will be really important in the coming decades to retain one’s place in the middle- and upper-middle classes. Everything beneath that is going to get very ugly.
     
    Perhaps the white lower classes could be saved by a universal basic income. But this would require a large cut back in immigration, among other things.

    Perhaps the white lower classes could be saved by a universal basic income. But this would require a large cut back in immigration, among other things.

    Because communism hasn’t been quite tried enough. I’m sure it will work this time.

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    • Replies: @Robert Hume
    I don't believe Stalin's Russia had a UBI. A UBI is very different from government supplied services. Someone who receives a UBI can use it to buy anything from anyone. That would foster a market economy.
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  105. AM says:
    @TheJester
    I've had conversations with Jews who escaped the Soviet Union when it imploded. They wax nostalgically about their elite privileges in the Soviet system ... being allowed to "own" large apartments in Moscow, tickets to the Bolshoi, excellent educations in Jewish-run technical institutes. Somehow, after their escape to the West, large numbers of these Jews seem to have ended up in banking of all professions. I don't know how or why.

    I find trying to understand the rapid transition of stereotypical Jewish communists into stereotypical Jewish capitalists intriguing and personal. My nephew married a Jewish woman from this group of emigres. They later divorced and he married his first wife's best friend, also from this group of emigres. Both work in the banking industry amid a cadre of Jewish emigres who work in the banking industry.

    One would think that working for a bank would be a humiliating experience for a good communist, even as they try to make a new life for themselves in the West. Can anyone throw some light on this?

    One would think that working for a bank would be a humiliating experience for a good communist, even as they try to make a new life for themselves in the West. Can anyone throw some light on this?

    Not really. A bank is really just managing money for people who do actual work. It’s not capitalism in the sense of giving people jobs, making cool stuff, or even working hard. Everyone remembers banker’s hours.

    They got their old jobs back from the USSR, that’s all, with some different rules.

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  106. Njguy73 says:

    “Hereditary hermit” would seem like a contradiction in terms…

    Go to 1:27.

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  107. Clyde says:
    @rec1man
    35% of Hindus are vegetarian

    Most Brahmins and Merchants are vegetarian - and thats the high IQ segment

    Kshatriya and Shudra eat mutton, fish, chicken

    Untouchables eat mutton, fish, chicken and pork and beef - and thats the lowest IQ segment

    Thanks for the correction!

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  108. Jack D says:

    The book available here:

    https://books.google.com/books?id=yDAMAAAAIAAJ&printsec=frontcover#v=onepage&q&f=false

    is very amusing but you have to take the stuff about India with a grain of salt due to the Gell-Mann Amnesia Effect:

    https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/65213-briefly-stated-the-gell-mann-amnesia-effect-is-as-follows-you

    Read his chapters about America (you know something about post-civil war America) and see if you believe he is being truthful and objective and then give his chapters on India the same weight as you do to those about America.

    Of course 19th century Englishmen were full of great civilizational confidence and regarded everyone except Englishmen as being savages. This is fun when he is talking about Indians, not so much fun when he is talking about Americans.

    Regardless of the lack of social mobility, India clearly had, long before the British got their, their own unique and complex civilization. Especially after the Industrial Revolution it was inferior in productive capacity to English civilization but it was still an advanced civilization with a high degree of specialization. Medieval Europe also had a lot of hereditary guilds and occupations. America sort of broke the mold on this because people on the frontier had to be jacks of all trades.

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  109. MG says:

    For all the hate and/or snark directed at Indians here, the reality is that Indians are fundamentally allies to Americans. It is China that you should be targeting. Indians students and software professionals here are not proxies of the Indian government.

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    • Replies: @anonymous
    "fundamentally allies"

    Hindu India is as much an "ally" of America, as Jew Israel is to America *wink*

    I bet the two supremacist/delusional nations are conniving as we speak, on how to "use" America for their own nefarious goals.

    "Indians students and software professionals here are not proxies of the Indian government."

    Given that most of the diaspora loves to lick a certain murderer's nether regions... riiight!!
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  110. Mark Caplan says: • Website
    @NickG
    I was born in Culcutta India in 1960 in the dry embers of the Raj - of British expat parents, my Dad worked for the British independent lubricants company Castrol (now part of BP) - I spent my first decade in India and what was then Ceylon.

    India completely assails the senses. One little bon mot that illustrates something of this.

    Trades and professions get the suffix 'wallah', roughly translating to the English slang 'geezer' or 'bloke'. So the milkman was the Dude-wallah, Dohbi-wallah was the chap who washed clothes by hand- there were no washing machines in 60s India and so on. I remember as a child in Bombay hearing a chap advertising his trade, hailing 'gobbly-wallah!....gobbly-wallah!' and me asking my folks what he did. They didn't tell me at the time, and because it clearly created some awkwardness, I remembered it and found out rather later. Though I hasten to add, not by availing myself of the service.

    Anyway, I'm not sure if the trade of gobbly-wallah was a hereditary profession. Knowing how bizarre India can be, it is quite possible.

    Fellatio.

    In British and Aussie slang, a gob is a mouth. Whether that’s the origin of gobble-wallah or gobbly-wallah is anyone’s guess.

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  111. Yan Shen says:

    Off topic, but any plans to address specifically either the cluster fuck that was Charlottesville or the car attacker James Alex Fields Jr?

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  112. Bengali Brahmins (arguably the most accomplished intellectually) are not vegetarian. Neither are Kashmiri Brahmins.

    There are few (voluntary) vegetarian castes in South India – it’s really a North Indian thing. Razib Khan recently posted the percentage of vegetarians in South India and in all major states, it was less than 10%.

    South Indians will abstain from meat for a day or two each week for religious reasons.

    Also, caste is the most enduring social system in the world and will probably outlast all others (the American “one drop rule”, European feudalism, etc.) Think of castes like extended families. What is debilitating about it is hereditary occupation, but that is rapidly changing. There are some good things about it – castes help each other and provide group social services and even the ugliest get a spouse in the arranged marriage system.

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    • Replies: @Jack D

    even the ugliest get a spouse in the arranged marriage system.
     
    That there has been no selection for attractiveness really shows. Because Bollywood gets its pick of over 1/2 billion women there are some very attractive Bollywood starlets from the top 1/1oth of 1%, but in terms of average looks Indian women are among the least attractive on earth.
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  113. Travis says:

    did Bollywood ever do a film like Trading Places with a lower caste trading places with an untouchable chosen to replace a Brahmin ?

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  114. @Off The Street
    Indians famously revere their sacred cows.
    Please explain why there is an organization called LeatherIndia.org?
    Are they peddling shoes and purses based on roadkill or natural death cows that become tanned hides outside the normal slaughter house channel?
    Marketing people please chime in.

    India is one of the world’s two or theee biggest exporters of beef. Go figure.

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    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    India is one of the world’s two or theee biggest exporters of beef.

     

    But not beefcake.

    Go figure.
     
    No figure.
    , @Jack D
    The exported meat is supposedly that of water buffaloes, who are not sacred. Supposedly.
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  115. Brachmane says:

    I think Clark might be wrong. There is massive affirmative action in India and its created middle classes in every caste group with sufficient numbers and political clout. Castes tend to rise together – example is the Nadars – who collected coconuts from trees for thousands of years but now collectively have a strong middle class. This wouldn’t be picked up in surname analysis.

    Clark also noted that the most well off surname in the US is “Shetty” — a meat eating non Brahmin group from South India

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  116. Anon87 says:
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  117. Perhaps just the most honest?

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  118. DBowman says:

    India has its own cultural Marxists and leftists who hate the dominant religion and people who profess it. The previous regime of Congress was a motley group of leftists who had accelerated the production and export of beef; they saw this as a subversive tactic as well since the dominant more proscribes it. Despite the fact that there are anti-cow slaughter laws in most states, it is possible to slaughter buffaloes and other non-milch cattle; this is what is exported as “beef” . Under the current nationalist dispensation, there is a crackdown of such things, so it is likely the exports will go down with time. Ironically, MacDonald’s does not serve beef in any of its joints in the country.

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    • Replies: @KA
    Beef exporting business is owned by Hindus



    Agra, November 21: Justice Rajinder Sachar, former chief justice of Delhi high court on Friday stoked a controversy when he said that more Hindus are involved in the beef trade in the country than Muslims. As Justice Rajinder Sachar made the statement on the beef row at the three-day ‘International Conference on Radical Islam’, where many of the teachers and participants walked out of the venue.
    On the last day of ‘International Conference on Radical Islam’ held at RC Degree College in Mathura, Justice Rajinder Sachar said that among all the beef traders in India, 95% are from the Hindu community. “Almost 95% beef traders are Hindus. Still, a man was lynched in Dadri because he ate beef. This is the death of mankind and humanity. Eating habits have nothing to do with religion. Even I can eat beef,” said Justice Sachar, who headed the committee that recommended quota for Muslims in 2006.
    Without taking the name of BJP’s Sardhana MLA Sangeet Som, who was recently in the news over allegations about owning a beef trading company, Justice Sachar said, “MPs and MLAs, too, own beef companies. Then why is only the common man being targeted by right-wing groups?”  http://www.india.com/news/india/hindu-beef-traders-why-all-the-fuss-over-justice-rajinder-sachars-remark-723206/
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  119. epebble says:
    @peterike
    For an excellent look at contemporary India, I recommend "Capital" by Rana Dasgupta. The levels of corruption in India are really quite amazing.

    And it's a great look at the social landscape of Delhi. Some choice quotes that help you realize our Asian future as this miserable elite gains status in white nations:

    "The fact that the city's out surfaces function as a giant bedroom, bathroom and closet for the hundreds of thousands who live in it unenclosed, helps to give the roads a run-down air."

    "Like so much of the rest of the city's infrastructure, these gap-toothed flyovers look ancient even when they have only just been built. Delhi's recent multibillion-dollar makeoever, completed just in time for the 2010 Commonwealth Games, is already difficult to remember: down the centre of main roads, great sections of the new dividing walls have broken off and fallen into the path of traffic, while the roofs are falling off the rusty Games stadium, whose car parks like cracked and empty."

    "Often, they [the wealthy] also campaigned for the slums near their streets to be demolished; sometimes it actually happened and they were astonished and outraged when their maids then stopped turning up for work."

    "In the first decade of the twenty-first century, some 15,000 Indian farmers committed suicide every year. The only way out."

    "Even as their own incomes multiplied manifold, they fought furiously against pay rises for the people who served them."

    "India's pool of billionaires expanded rapidly, increasing their wealth from less than 1 percent of national income in 1996 to 22 percent in 2008. Sixty percent of this billionaire wealth was built up from sectors closely controlled by government: property development, infrastructure, construction, mining, telecoms, cement and media."

    15,000 Indian farmers committed suicide every year

    It looks like a big number, but not really huge compared to a billion people.

    For comparison, we have a quarter of population but 50,000 overdose deaths.

    http://www.foxnews.com/health/2016/12/09/grim-tally-soars-more-than-50k-overdose-deaths-in-us.html

    And this “Even as their own incomes multiplied manifold, they fought furiously against pay rises for the people who served them.” sounds like something they learned at Harvard or Wharton. It is amazing how successful we have been in spreading the virus of rapacious capitalism to the far corners of the world.

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  120. Some college-aged young adults told me today that many in their generation are profoundly depressed. They view the next older group in their late 20s as the last ones to catch the success train. They hear stories about successes and have doubts about ever achieving that for themselves or about escaping debt. Some of that is a type of gallows humour but some is not.

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  121. @TheJester
    I've had conversations with Jews who escaped the Soviet Union when it imploded. They wax nostalgically about their elite privileges in the Soviet system ... being allowed to "own" large apartments in Moscow, tickets to the Bolshoi, excellent educations in Jewish-run technical institutes. Somehow, after their escape to the West, large numbers of these Jews seem to have ended up in banking of all professions. I don't know how or why.

    I find trying to understand the rapid transition of stereotypical Jewish communists into stereotypical Jewish capitalists intriguing and personal. My nephew married a Jewish woman from this group of emigres. They later divorced and he married his first wife's best friend, also from this group of emigres. Both work in the banking industry amid a cadre of Jewish emigres who work in the banking industry.

    One would think that working for a bank would be a humiliating experience for a good communist, even as they try to make a new life for themselves in the West. Can anyone throw some light on this?

    There are Jews that strongly believed in communism. There are also Jews that parroted the slogans because that is how you got ahead. To get ahead in society you needed to follow the party line (aka not have your own strong beliefs). What group do you think would end up in the upper tiers of the party?

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  122. George says:
    @Numinous
    You don't cover yourself in glory by regurgitating observations made by 19th century British colonials in India and using that to pontificate on what India is like today, Mr Sailer! India may or may not be the world's most reactionary civilization, but it's an every-changing one, like every other civilization. There's a world of difference between the India of 1868 and the India of 2017, just like there's a world of difference between the America of 1868 and that of 2017.

    As for these "surveys" you report on, I'd take them with a huge pinch of salt. The population of India had seen its society and world-view completely upended at the time by the British, and they it knew that the Englishman was the master, at least for the time being. Many people just made things up when the British talked to them in hopes of currying favor and gaining some advantage in a "new' country.

    You have Indians commenting on your blog, many of whom are sympathetic to your ideology. Listen to them to understand what India is like instead of digging up colonial texts. One comment from the likes of Dot not Feather is worth more than a shelf of colonial writings on the topic.

    As for caste, I understand it's an anthropological curiosity to you and most of your commenters, who like to take a little bit of real information and spin fantasies around it. The truth is that caste has indeed lost much salience in modern India, though less so in the rural areas. The only sphere of life where it matters is in marriage, but that's not because the bride and the groom are caste-conscious but because they prefer Mommy to pick their spouses, and Mommy prefers to stick to the caste system. By the next generation, that will change too. Inter-caste marriages in India are like interracial marriages in the US; still a minority phenomenon, but rapidly increasing in proportion.

    So the Bhâts don’t exist. I had such high hopes. I am inconsolable.

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  123. epebble says:
    @Stasia
    More quotations from Sir Charles Dilke's book "Greater Britain":

    Dilke

    "found that the difficulties which impede the progress to to universal domination of the English people lie in the conflict with the cheaper races", and prophesied that "the dearer [races] are ... likely to destroy the cheaper peoples, and that Saxondom will rise triumphant from ... the struggle."
     
    For Dilke, proof of this was that

    "the English in America are absorbing the Germans and the Celts, destroying the Red Indians, and checking the advance of the Chinese."

     

    Dilke insisted:

    "The Anglo-Saxon is the only extirpating race om earth. Up to the commencement of the now inevitable destruction of the Red Indians of Central North America, of the Maoris, and of the [indigenous] Australians, by the English colonists, no numerous race has ever been blotted out by an invader."
     
    And Dilke prophesied:

    "No possible ... events can prevent ... Italy, Spain, France, Russia becoming pygmies by the side of such a people."
     
    In other words, before Hitler's daddy was even a gleam in his grand-daddy's eye, Anglo-America had accomplished more than Hitler ever dreamed of!

    AND Anglo-America is lauded and praised for it!

    I suppose Hitler knew at least that much: nothing succeeds like success, and nothing fails like failure. And, in comparison with Anglo-America, Hitler was an EPIC FAIL!

    Time is an interesting thing; Even with his superior intellect, he couldn’t predict Greater Britain will end up becoming Great Britainistan https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xaSU6QYLnsI

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  124. KA says:

    India is going through some unresolved developmental issues . It is trying to take revenge for past ignominy of foreign rules and invasion In the process it is changing its own religious platform as well ,blaming the stratification of the society to foreign invasion . It is trying to disrupt the beef business by making it a religious issues .Once the beef industry comes under full control of the elite Hindus, it will allow beef eating again . This is right from the successful playbook that was employed to throw out non Hindus muslims from business in Western Uttar Pradesh and later in Bombay . The hardliners are trying to unite Hindus under one umbrella. But the plan is everyone to see that once the plan is realized ,it would be made certain to look like same old caste base discrimination under new labels of growth development and free market .

    Currently it is in some tough spot having declared that China has to move back from Bhutan ‘s surroundings . It still has unresolved border issues with Nepal Mynammar and obviously with China .

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  125. t says:
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  126. uman says:
    @Anon
    With globalist migrations and immigrations, will the entire world have same hierarchies? Jews on top, whites and Asians in middle, browns as helots, blacks as whatever?

    Take Japan. Once, Japanese did everything, from high jobs to low jobs. But most Japanese are well-educated and don't want low jobs. If possible, they wanna move to other nations to get middle jobs. Chinese have same attitude. So, they take over upper middle ranks in US and Canada and Australia.

    Meanwhile, Mexicans occupy helot positons wherever they go.

    And Jews gain elite position wherever they go.

    So, with massive migrations, the whole world will look similar in terms of class.

    What if lots of Japanese moved to the West to fill up middle and upper middle jobs. And what if lower level jobs in Japan were taken over by brown immigrants? And suppose Jews were allowed to move to Japan and take over elite positions.

    Then, US, Japan, Canada, Mexico, Germany, and etc will all have Jews at top, whites and asians as upper middle and middle, browns as helots, and blacks as whatever.

    wow you really figured it out.

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  127. @TheJester
    I've had conversations with Jews who escaped the Soviet Union when it imploded. They wax nostalgically about their elite privileges in the Soviet system ... being allowed to "own" large apartments in Moscow, tickets to the Bolshoi, excellent educations in Jewish-run technical institutes. Somehow, after their escape to the West, large numbers of these Jews seem to have ended up in banking of all professions. I don't know how or why.

    I find trying to understand the rapid transition of stereotypical Jewish communists into stereotypical Jewish capitalists intriguing and personal. My nephew married a Jewish woman from this group of emigres. They later divorced and he married his first wife's best friend, also from this group of emigres. Both work in the banking industry amid a cadre of Jewish emigres who work in the banking industry.

    One would think that working for a bank would be a humiliating experience for a good communist, even as they try to make a new life for themselves in the West. Can anyone throw some light on this?

    One would think that working for a bank would be a humiliating experience for a good communist, even as they try to make a new life for themselves in the West. Can anyone throw some light on this?

    Yes. Your first mistake was assuming anyone on the Left talks or acts in good faith, or possesses any shame. Take some cynicism supplements.

    Horton hears a Who/Whom.

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    Horton hears a Who/Whom.
     
    I'm stealing that. I wonder if more riffing on the book like that is possible.
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  128. @PiltdownMan
    India is one of the world's two or theee biggest exporters of beef. Go figure.

    India is one of the world’s two or theee biggest exporters of beef.

    But not beefcake.

    Go figure.

    No figure.

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  129. … The Gour Brahmins claim to have been in the district of Moozuffernuggur for 5000 years.

    Ooh… you said the MZFN-word.

    Moozuffernugger sounds like s’mores on steroids.

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  130. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @Jason Liu
    Depends what you mean by reactionary. Hierarchy is not the same as caste, functional hierarchies need to be flexible and meritocratic, like imperial China but with better requirements and less corruption.

    -------------

    But Steve, not a word about the news du jour? Some nice white lady SJW turned to roadkill. Regardless of your stance on white supremacy, we should drink.

    But Steve, not a word about the news du jour? Some nice white lady SJW turned to roadkill. Regardless of your stance on white supremacy, we should drink.

    I’m sure Steve, and a lot of others, are waiting for the full story to come out. Nobody trusts the MSM anymore, and nobody wants to pass judgement based on news reports that may be incomplete or false.

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  131. Karl says:
    @peterike

    With globalist migrations and immigrations, will the entire world have same hierarchies? Jews on top, whites and Asians in middle, browns as helots, blacks as whatever?

     

    More likely Asians will share the top with Jews. Jews and Chinese in America are already well along their way with assortive mating to create Tiger Babushkas, or whatever one calls them (see Zuckerberg). Chinese and Indians have no racial or ethnic guilt complexes and will not step aside for Jews based on Jewish Jedi Mind Tricks. Nor are they exhausted, like Western WASP society, and ready to retreat into mental retirement and give up all power.

    It will be quite some time before Jews start infiltrating China or India (the only nations here that matter) in large numbers, though some are already at it. But the reverse is well under way, of Chinese/Indians infiltrating America and rising to positions of wealth, power and influence. There is a tidal wave of this coming in the next 20 years, as Western universities, especially in U.S. and Australia, have been pouring out wave after wave of Asian graduates, who are now entering the ranks of all the SJW professions: media, news, legal, NGOs, politics, etc. And they are feverishly anti-white in the SJW mold.

    At the same time, because the upper elite is by definition limited, Asians will also form a large part of the middle classes, as whites continue to decline and Asians grow in number. And lots and lots of cross-racial breeding is going to happen. Chinese are already far along in America in mating with whites. Indians are still more tied to traditional marriage cultures, but its ending rapidly with Indians that are schooled in America.

    An open question is whither the white working class? They are still a significant part of the Helot group, but as a group they are declining rapidly due to relentless media, elite and governmental hostility toward them and demographic displacement. The helot class will likely be slightly whitened as sinking whites marry into the rising Hispanics.

    Blacks will remain a major problem that is likely to get even worse. But once whites are downtrodden enough, we might see an overnight change in elite attitudes about blacks, who serve now as a weapon to push whites down. Certainly the Asian infiltration of the elites isn't going to help blacks very much. I can see a time -- though probably 20 or more years out -- when the elite turns harshly on blacks and brings things back to a more 50s style mode of governance for them.

    The bottom line is that it will be really important in the coming decades to retain one's place in the middle- and upper-middle classes. Everything beneath that is going to get very ugly.

    24 peterike > And they are feverishly anti-white in the SJW mold

    Asians aren’t as stupid as whites. They will change tack the second the benefit-to-themselves equation changes

    No one can show me an asian–originated written or spoken statement attacking Ms Chan for getting with Zuck

    Oh wait – is someone going to claim that Ashkenazim are not white?

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  132. Jack D says:
    @PiltdownMan
    India is one of the world's two or theee biggest exporters of beef. Go figure.

    The exported meat is supposedly that of water buffaloes, who are not sacred. Supposedly.

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    • Replies: @Anonymous
    India banned the export of 'real', (ie deceased persons) , human skeletons way back in 1985.
    Prior to that, India pretty much had the highly lucrative global medical school market sewn (or, rather, wired, up), bearing in mind that each one of the world's countless thousand 1st year medical students requires a skeleton of his own, as the Clash might have put it.
    The result has been a stubborn decades old 'worldwide bone shortage'. Full skeletons, never mind skulls, chiropractors' backbones etc now fetch exorbitant prices, and the trend is for very old skeletons, dating to at least Victorian times to be reused.
    Genuine human skeletons for non-medical uses such as the dramatic etc, are now almost unobtainable.

    Apparently, previous to the general bone ban, the main dealing houses in human bones, invariably based in Kolkata, generally, literally fished putrid cadavers from the Hooghly etc, bound them in net curtain, and let the fish and bacteria do the rest. It was a very big, lucrative business with several rival big bone brokers competing in the export trade, having their showrooms, warehouses and trade facilities adjacent.
    The smell in those environs was said, inevitably, to be 'terrible'.


    In his diaries, that great magician and celebrated diabolist, Aleister Crowley, writes of 'purchasing a human skeleton' from the extant London house of Messrs. Milliken & Lawley, around the 1900s, as casually as one would describe purchasing a joint of beef.
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  133. Jack D says:
    @TheJester
    I've had conversations with Jews who escaped the Soviet Union when it imploded. They wax nostalgically about their elite privileges in the Soviet system ... being allowed to "own" large apartments in Moscow, tickets to the Bolshoi, excellent educations in Jewish-run technical institutes. Somehow, after their escape to the West, large numbers of these Jews seem to have ended up in banking of all professions. I don't know how or why.

    I find trying to understand the rapid transition of stereotypical Jewish communists into stereotypical Jewish capitalists intriguing and personal. My nephew married a Jewish woman from this group of emigres. They later divorced and he married his first wife's best friend, also from this group of emigres. Both work in the banking industry amid a cadre of Jewish emigres who work in the banking industry.

    One would think that working for a bank would be a humiliating experience for a good communist, even as they try to make a new life for themselves in the West. Can anyone throw some light on this?

    In the late Soviet Union, (especially after 1967) Jews in the Soviet Union suffered a lot of discrimination. They were banned from the top universities and jobs. Maybe the grandfathers of the bankers you are referring to were dedicated Communists but their generation had soured on the Soviet Union because old fashioned traditional Russian anti-Semitism was now running the show.

    http://www.tanyakhovanova.com/coffins.html

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  134. Jack D says:
    @Kulak Archipelago
    Bengali Brahmins (arguably the most accomplished intellectually) are not vegetarian. Neither are Kashmiri Brahmins.

    There are few (voluntary) vegetarian castes in South India - it's really a North Indian thing. Razib Khan recently posted the percentage of vegetarians in South India and in all major states, it was less than 10%.

    South Indians will abstain from meat for a day or two each week for religious reasons.


    Also, caste is the most enduring social system in the world and will probably outlast all others (the American "one drop rule", European feudalism, etc.) Think of castes like extended families. What is debilitating about it is hereditary occupation, but that is rapidly changing. There are some good things about it - castes help each other and provide group social services and even the ugliest get a spouse in the arranged marriage system.

    even the ugliest get a spouse in the arranged marriage system.

    That there has been no selection for attractiveness really shows. Because Bollywood gets its pick of over 1/2 billion women there are some very attractive Bollywood starlets from the top 1/1oth of 1%, but in terms of average looks Indian women are among the least attractive on earth.

    Read More
    • Replies: @rec1man
    Average attractiveness varies by caste and castes with higher % of Aryan blood have hot women

    Go to JeevanSathi,com and you can see photos by caste of matrimonial market

    Most bollywood actresses are of Khatri Caste - Punjabi merchants

    on Jeevansathi.com, even among ordinary khatri women, high % of hot women

    https://pix.sfly.com/Y9OQoM

    This is my wife, Tamil Brahmin, through arranged marriage
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  135. @rec1man
    All Jains are extreme vegetarians, dont even eat certain plant foods

    Most non-Jain, Hindu merchants are also vegetarian

    The brahmin-merchant grouping is predominantly vegetarian , which is why most upscale flats and apartments have vegetarian only rule to keep out undesirables

    certain lower ranked brahmins such as bengali brahmins eat fish

    yes, some brahmins eat chicken etc, but it is hidden - in the arranged marriage
    system, they investigate not just the potential bride and groom , but also their relatives
    for deviancies - such as do any eat non-veg food, do any smoke or drink or do drugs or elope outside caste

    The Patels were originally Shudra, and ate meat, about 200 years ago, they upgraded themselves to Vaishya by becoming vegetarian

    The dividing line between Vaishya and Shudra is Vaishya has vegetarian diet

    About a 100 years ago, the census had a split between Clean Shudra ( vegetarian ) and Unclean Shudra ( non-vegetarian ) ;

    Sikhs are vegetarians. On the other hand, I believe some of the Southern Indian groups (non-Brahmin) eat beef.

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    • Replies: @Escher

    Sikhs are vegetarians.
     
    No they're not. Every Sikh I have known loves his chicken (no double entendre intended).
    , @rec1man
    About 50% of Sikhs are vegetarian

    Depends on the sub-sect or caste - The Namdhari Sikhs are vegetarian
    The Mazbhi ( untouchable ) Sikhs eat meat

    In South India, all the non-brahmin are non-vegetarian ( ex-beef )
    In kerala, all the non-brahmins eat beef , but this is a newer development due to commie ideology and gulf jobs
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  136. @Chrisnonymous
    That sounds right. It's a little sad. I liked 1940-1990 America, including--yes--it's diversity.

    Did you like the 1965 immigration act and the 1986 amnesty? The late-’60s crime spike and the white flight? Vietnam? Watergate? Feminism? Gay liberation and the mainstreaming of sexual perversion? The rise of Cultural Marxism?

    My earliest memories are from the late ’80s, so I wasn’t there to watch it all unfold firsthand. (It must have been a fascinating spectacle.) But seeing what this country is now, and hearing about what it once was, leads me to believe that the folks who ran America in the latter part of the twentieth century ran it into the ground.

    I’ve been told more than once that everything went to hell around 1970. Again, I wasn’t there.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Chrisnonymous
    I was also born around 1980, but I gather that many of the things you complain about really started to impact people's lives after 1990, which is why the period 1940-1990 was given.

    Also, it's apparent that I'm more libertine than many iSteve readers.
    , @res

    I’ve been told more than once that everything went to hell around 1970. Again, I wasn’t there.
     
    There was a bit of a perfect storm from 1965-1975:
    - Civil rights
    - The Vietnam War
    - The 60s protest culture
    - Immigration changes
    - The first oil shock
    - Watergate
    (any more?)
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  137. Sikhs are not vegetarian. Jains are.

    Read More
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  138. Bondo73 says:
    @rec1man
    All Jains are extreme vegetarians, dont even eat certain plant foods

    Most non-Jain, Hindu merchants are also vegetarian

    The brahmin-merchant grouping is predominantly vegetarian , which is why most upscale flats and apartments have vegetarian only rule to keep out undesirables

    certain lower ranked brahmins such as bengali brahmins eat fish

    yes, some brahmins eat chicken etc, but it is hidden - in the arranged marriage
    system, they investigate not just the potential bride and groom , but also their relatives
    for deviancies - such as do any eat non-veg food, do any smoke or drink or do drugs or elope outside caste

    The Patels were originally Shudra, and ate meat, about 200 years ago, they upgraded themselves to Vaishya by becoming vegetarian

    The dividing line between Vaishya and Shudra is Vaishya has vegetarian diet

    About a 100 years ago, the census had a split between Clean Shudra ( vegetarian ) and Unclean Shudra ( non-vegetarian ) ;

    Most second generation Tamil Brahmin-Americans (1) marry whites and (2) eat beef (especially females).

    Most Gujaratis do not.

    Who are the clean and unclean Shudras now?

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  139. anon says: • Disclaimer
    @kaganovitch
    "Jews and Chinese in America are already well along their way with assortive mating to create Tiger Babushkas, or whatever one calls them (see Zuckerberg)."

    Although not accurate, "Tiger Babushka" is a wonderful coinage.

    “Although not accurate, “Tiger Babushka” is a wonderful coinage.”
    Too prolix. Chinese + jews = Chews.

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  140. Sounds like government jobs in Chicago.

    Read More
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  141. Yan Shen says:
    @Jason Liu
    Depends what you mean by reactionary. Hierarchy is not the same as caste, functional hierarchies need to be flexible and meritocratic, like imperial China but with better requirements and less corruption.

    -------------

    But Steve, not a word about the news du jour? Some nice white lady SJW turned to roadkill. Regardless of your stance on white supremacy, we should drink.

    Doesn’t seem like we’ll be getting anything more than that prior oblique post about Charlottesville…

    Read More
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  142. mb says: • Website

    “Is India, under the surface, the world’s most reactionary civilization?”

    Well, Richard Grenier certainly thought it was pretty racist in The Ghandi Nobody Knows(1983).

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  143. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @NickG
    I was born in Culcutta India in 1960 in the dry embers of the Raj - of British expat parents, my Dad worked for the British independent lubricants company Castrol (now part of BP) - I spent my first decade in India and what was then Ceylon.

    India completely assails the senses. One little bon mot that illustrates something of this.

    Trades and professions get the suffix 'wallah', roughly translating to the English slang 'geezer' or 'bloke'. So the milkman was the Dude-wallah, Dohbi-wallah was the chap who washed clothes by hand- there were no washing machines in 60s India and so on. I remember as a child in Bombay hearing a chap advertising his trade, hailing 'gobbly-wallah!....gobbly-wallah!' and me asking my folks what he did. They didn't tell me at the time, and because it clearly created some awkwardness, I remembered it and found out rather later. Though I hasten to add, not by availing myself of the service.

    Anyway, I'm not sure if the trade of gobbly-wallah was a hereditary profession. Knowing how bizarre India can be, it is quite possible.

    Back in the day, I remember an old time veteran of the British colonial Indian army holding court and pontificating about his reminiscences of India.

    Apparently, an Indian milkman does not deliver bottles, or even takes a churn, of milk to the customers’ front door. He actually leads his milch-cow to the customers’ premises and milks it on the spot there and then.
    An Indian audience member piped up and offered his explanation. In a land of widespread fraud and cheating, he explained, this was the only real true way of ensuring that your daily milk hasn’t been watered down.

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    • Replies: @NickG
    Yup, I remember my mother buying sugar in Bombay, which was sold loose, by weight, in brown paper bags. It was always damp, no doubt the merchant was boosting the weight. This caused its own problems, as contaminated water is a huge problem in India. You even have to be careful about the ice in drinks.
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  144. @Anonymous
    India actually has one of the most significant and longest running rebellions in the world - the Maoist Naxalite rebellion which controls something like a third of Indian territory. The rebels are poor peasants.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OvUVzvt_jtg

    Maoist Naxalite?

    Not all Maoists are like that.

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  145. NickG says:
    @Anonymous
    Back in the day, I remember an old time veteran of the British colonial Indian army holding court and pontificating about his reminiscences of India.

    Apparently, an Indian milkman does not deliver bottles, or even takes a churn, of milk to the customers' front door. He actually leads his milch-cow to the customers' premises and milks it on the spot there and then.
    An Indian audience member piped up and offered his explanation. In a land of widespread fraud and cheating, he explained, this was the only real true way of ensuring that your daily milk hasn't been watered down.

    Yup, I remember my mother buying sugar in Bombay, which was sold loose, by weight, in brown paper bags. It was always damp, no doubt the merchant was boosting the weight. This caused its own problems, as contaminated water is a huge problem in India. You even have to be careful about the ice in drinks.

    Read More
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  146. @Beckow
    India is the world's biggest problem because it has 1.4 billion people who live in an over-crowded, permanently dysfunctional country, with a lack of resources, lack of social cohesion, a civilization that has been taken apart and has become a brutal Malthusian fight for survival. There is very little that can be improved there and most people are trying to leave, at any cost. When you allow hundreds of millions of people from the Indian subcontinent to migrate to the better parts of the world, they will swamp and change for the worse all those places. And there are hundreds of millions that will actively try to leave (incl. Pakistan, Bangladesh). It is an unmanageable disaster for the West. Over time it will turn into a kind of India. This is not good, these are post-civilization trends.

    I agree that the Sub-Saharan Africa has been coming up and challenging India as the biggest problem for humanity, you are correct. But China less so, thanks to Mao and the rigid communist system, more resources, better culture, etc... I think parts of Middle East and Southeast Asia are more likely to cause massive issues for mankind in the future.

    Did I answer your question? Do you know anyone - anyone, anywhere - who is sane and has family, who would relocate to live in India? Of course, not. So your 'rapidly improving' is just a slogan, it means nothing in India context.

    India is certainly crowded. It’s density of population is in the same ballpark as the Netherlands, Israel, the U.K. And Japan.

    I’m not sure what the point about lack of social cohesion is- as India marks it’s 70th anniversary today as an independent country with an uninterrupted political system and no great internal conflict.

    As for stagnation, it’s hard to make the case, given that it has been one of the fastest growing larger economies of late.

    And I see no data supporting the notion of great outflows from India.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Thomm
    Don't bother debating with an idiot like Beckow. He probably read 'Camp of the Saints' and lacks the intelligence to hold more information in his pea-brain than that.

    Plenty of white Western Expats live in India. Over 50,000, in fact.
    , @Beckow
    Crowded and very poor ($1.5k/GNP per capita per year) is different than just crowded. Mathematically even if India grows 7% per year it will still be hopelessly poor 25 years from now. That is stagnation.

    There are huge outflows of Indians (and other South Asians), the total migrants are in 10-20 million range and another 50-100 million are ready to move immediately as soon as their families are established in UK, US, Canada, Australia and can bring them in as part of chain migration. That is very substantial.

    Internally India is not cohesive. It is incredibly mismanaged, everybody is fighting for scraps, the extreme poverty has made the society dysfunctional.

    My point is that as long as this was largely contained within India, it was only a problem for people living there. But our esteemed leaders have decided to massively import India into the West - Clinton famously spoke to graduating Indian students about the 'opportunities for you in the US'. The combination of large numbers, hopelessness, and certain skills (that for example Sub-Saharan African don't have) makes the potential Indian migration tsunami the biggest risk for the West. Large parts will be turned into India-like places. Why are we doing this to ourselves?

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  147. Thomm says:
    @Beckow
    India is the world's biggest problem because it has 1.4 billion people who live in an over-crowded, permanently dysfunctional country, with a lack of resources, lack of social cohesion, a civilization that has been taken apart and has become a brutal Malthusian fight for survival. There is very little that can be improved there and most people are trying to leave, at any cost. When you allow hundreds of millions of people from the Indian subcontinent to migrate to the better parts of the world, they will swamp and change for the worse all those places. And there are hundreds of millions that will actively try to leave (incl. Pakistan, Bangladesh). It is an unmanageable disaster for the West. Over time it will turn into a kind of India. This is not good, these are post-civilization trends.

    I agree that the Sub-Saharan Africa has been coming up and challenging India as the biggest problem for humanity, you are correct. But China less so, thanks to Mao and the rigid communist system, more resources, better culture, etc... I think parts of Middle East and Southeast Asia are more likely to cause massive issues for mankind in the future.

    Did I answer your question? Do you know anyone - anyone, anywhere - who is sane and has family, who would relocate to live in India? Of course, not. So your 'rapidly improving' is just a slogan, it means nothing in India context.

    Do you know anyone – anyone, anywhere – who is sane and has family, who would relocate to live in India?

    There are thousands of Western expats (British, French, Australian, etc.) who are living in India quite happily. It is pretty good if you have some money…

    You are really quite ignorant.

    Then again, white nationalists have negro IQs.

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  148. Thomm says:
    @PiltdownMan
    India is certainly crowded. It's density of population is in the same ballpark as the Netherlands, Israel, the U.K. And Japan.

    I'm not sure what the point about lack of social cohesion is- as India marks it's 70th anniversary today as an independent country with an uninterrupted political system and no great internal conflict.

    As for stagnation, it's hard to make the case, given that it has been one of the fastest growing larger economies of late.

    And I see no data supporting the notion of great outflows from India.

    Don’t bother debating with an idiot like Beckow. He probably read ‘Camp of the Saints’ and lacks the intelligence to hold more information in his pea-brain than that.

    Plenty of white Western Expats live in India. Over 50,000, in fact.

    Read More
    • Agree: PiltdownMan
    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    How many Europeans lived in India in Kipling's day?
    , @anon
    "Plenty of white Western Expats live in India. Over 50,000, in fact."
    I'll swap you them for the 500,000 Pajeets that
    invaded my country in the last decade.
    , @peterike

    Plenty of white Western Expats live in India. Over 50,000, in fact.

     

    Gosh, all that many? In a nation of over a billion?

    Look Spanky, there are over four million Indians in the U.S. (2015 number) and more arriving every single day. To say nothing of their numbers across the rest of the Anglosphere. Don't beclown yourself by pretending there is some kind of equivalency here.
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  149. @Thomm
    Don't bother debating with an idiot like Beckow. He probably read 'Camp of the Saints' and lacks the intelligence to hold more information in his pea-brain than that.

    Plenty of white Western Expats live in India. Over 50,000, in fact.

    How many Europeans lived in India in Kipling’s day?

    Read More
    • Replies: @wootzst
    @Steve Sailer

    Related to the James Damore controversy.

    While the media has gone after Damore, and Google CEO Pichai scored some brownie points by firing Damore, what has fallen down the memory hole is the sexist comment by Microsoft CEO Satya Nadella : he stated that women should not ask for a raise as it was bad Karma. They should just trust Karma. Nadella exposed his Brahminical casteist attitudes with that comment. Brahmins have used Karma as a weapon to exploit and subjugate other castes, and women were especially abused and the abuse justified as Karmic . I wonder how much uproar there would have been if an Anglo CEO had told female employees that they would get just compensation if the Christian god wills it.

    http://time.com/3486673/microsofts-ceo-satya-nadella-women-work-gender-pay-gap/

    Damore got soo much heat in part because he fleshed out his views much more than Nadella but also because Damore is white. Damore is expendable ; he is a programmer, whereas Nadella is the CEO. Nadella's comment is far worse because as the CEO, he has the kind of power that Damore doesn't . The Mainstream media has essentially given Nadella a pass relative to Damore.


    In the US: Tata's software unit and Infosys have both been accused of overwhelmingly hiring Indians over traditional Americans.

    In Britain: Hindu and Sikh upper castes both used their influence on the British government to prevent criminalization of caste discrimination. The House of Lords tried more than once to make Casteism illegal but both times they were defeated by Sikh and Hindu upper caste activists impressing their demands on members of parliament. Ambedkar, the Indian Dalit icon and co-author of their constitution said that Indians will take their caste prejudice with them when they move abroad.
    , @Thomm
    Gandhi seemed to mention 120,000 British officers in 1920. Kipling was before that, but perhaps a similar number.
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  150. Beckow says:
    @PiltdownMan
    India is certainly crowded. It's density of population is in the same ballpark as the Netherlands, Israel, the U.K. And Japan.

    I'm not sure what the point about lack of social cohesion is- as India marks it's 70th anniversary today as an independent country with an uninterrupted political system and no great internal conflict.

    As for stagnation, it's hard to make the case, given that it has been one of the fastest growing larger economies of late.

    And I see no data supporting the notion of great outflows from India.

    Crowded and very poor ($1.5k/GNP per capita per year) is different than just crowded. Mathematically even if India grows 7% per year it will still be hopelessly poor 25 years from now. That is stagnation.

    There are huge outflows of Indians (and other South Asians), the total migrants are in 10-20 million range and another 50-100 million are ready to move immediately as soon as their families are established in UK, US, Canada, Australia and can bring them in as part of chain migration. That is very substantial.

    Internally India is not cohesive. It is incredibly mismanaged, everybody is fighting for scraps, the extreme poverty has made the society dysfunctional.

    My point is that as long as this was largely contained within India, it was only a problem for people living there. But our esteemed leaders have decided to massively import India into the West – Clinton famously spoke to graduating Indian students about the ‘opportunities for you in the US’. The combination of large numbers, hopelessness, and certain skills (that for example Sub-Saharan African don’t have) makes the potential Indian migration tsunami the biggest risk for the West. Large parts will be turned into India-like places. Why are we doing this to ourselves?

    Read More
    • Replies: @PiltdownMan

    But our esteemed leaders have decided to massively import India into the West – Clinton famously spoke to graduating Indian students about the ‘opportunities for you in the US’.
     
    About 65,000 Indians immigrate into the United States each year. About half get green cards overseas and come here (typically family members/chain migrations) and the rest are Indians already here on non-permanent visas who adjust their status to immigrant, about 0.02% of our population, per year.

    That is not a "massive import of India into the United States."

    https://www.dhs.gov/sites/default/files/publications/Lawful_Permanent_Residents_2014.pdf

    https://travel.state.gov/content/dam/visas/Statistics/AnnualReports/FY2016AnnualReport/FY16AnnualReport-TableXIV.pdf

    , @jimmyriddle
    "Mathematically even if India grows 7% per year it will still be hopelessly poor 25 years from now. That is stagnation."

    Better take care taking out loans; you don't understand compound interest.

    If (big if) they have 25 years of 7% growth, that will mean 5.4x increase in GDP. Population growth will be around 15% or so. India's nominal GDP per capita is $1.8k (2016), so in 2041 it should be around $8k.

    $8k nominal isn't too bad when you have a fairly high PPP multiplier. We're talking southern Europe now, or Israel in the 70s.
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  151. @AM

    Perhaps the white lower classes could be saved by a universal basic income. But this would require a large cut back in immigration, among other things.
     
    Because communism hasn't been quite tried enough. I'm sure it will work this time.

    I don’t believe Stalin’s Russia had a UBI. A UBI is very different from government supplied services. Someone who receives a UBI can use it to buy anything from anyone. That would foster a market economy.

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    • Replies: @Robert Hume
    In this connection it would be useful to have a plot of cumulative or incremental log wealth versus cumulative or incremental population percentage.

    The underlying question is: how much wealth does the top 10% or 1%, or .1%, or .01% or .001% control? So who needs to have their taxes raised to provide a UBI for the 100%?
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  152. @Robert Hume
    I don't believe Stalin's Russia had a UBI. A UBI is very different from government supplied services. Someone who receives a UBI can use it to buy anything from anyone. That would foster a market economy.

    In this connection it would be useful to have a plot of cumulative or incremental log wealth versus cumulative or incremental population percentage.

    The underlying question is: how much wealth does the top 10% or 1%, or .1%, or .01% or .001% control? So who needs to have their taxes raised to provide a UBI for the 100%?

    Read More
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  153. anon says: • Disclaimer
    @Thomm
    Don't bother debating with an idiot like Beckow. He probably read 'Camp of the Saints' and lacks the intelligence to hold more information in his pea-brain than that.

    Plenty of white Western Expats live in India. Over 50,000, in fact.

    “Plenty of white Western Expats live in India. Over 50,000, in fact.”
    I’ll swap you them for the 500,000 Pajeets that
    invaded my country in the last decade.

    Read More
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  154. wootzst says:
    @rec1man
    35% of Hindus are vegetarian

    Most Brahmins and Merchants are vegetarian - and thats the high IQ segment

    Kshatriya and Shudra eat mutton, fish, chicken

    Untouchables eat mutton, fish, chicken and pork and beef - and thats the lowest IQ segment

    Your comment is misleading on Shudras and vegetarianism.

    Brahmins were meat eaters, and not just meat eaters but beef eaters. It is due to indigenous influence that some of them adopted vegetarianism. Shudras were indigenous , evident by them not being twice born in the varna/caste system. But all indigenous Indian groups wouldn’t have been vegetarian

    Since you have mentioned some time back you are a south Indian Brahmin, you will know that vegetarianism in India is especially concentrated in the Dravidian south. And you will know that the caste system in the South is a Brahmin import and different from the caste system in the north.

    The Southern caste system has only Brahmins and Shudras ; there is no Vaishyas and Kshatriya. The merchants , landowners, agriculturalists and royalty in the South are Shudras , if one goes by the Brahminical caste system but unlike the North, they were not physically subjugated. Shudras can be vegetarian or not . I am a Vellala (Dravidian) from Ceylon and a lot of Vellalas are Shaivites specifically (including many of my relatives and family) ; they are vegetarian from birth .

    Vegetarianism , not eating beef and the special place accorded to cows is not an Aryan custom, it is native and very likely Dravidian since these customs are strongest in the Dravidian south.

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    • Replies: @rec1man
    https://imgur.com/s63seAF

    Has a map of vegetarianism in India

    Tamil Nadu is 97% non-vegetarian

    Only Brahmins and Saiva Velala are vegetarian

    In Gujurat, 61% is Vegetarian
    Rajasthan is 75% Vegetarian
    Punjab is 67% Vegetarian
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  155. Escher says:
    @JohnnyWalker123
    Sikhs are vegetarians. On the other hand, I believe some of the Southern Indian groups (non-Brahmin) eat beef.

    Sikhs are vegetarians.

    No they’re not. Every Sikh I have known loves his chicken (no double entendre intended).

    Read More
    • Replies: @rec1man
    It depends on the caste of the Sikh

    Namdhari Sikhs are 100% vegetarian

    Untouchable Sikhs are 100% non-veg

    Sikhs who have taken Amrit, ( religious orthodox ) tend to be veg
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  156. wootzst says:
    @Steve Sailer
    How many Europeans lived in India in Kipling's day?

    Related to the James Damore controversy.

    While the media has gone after Damore, and Google CEO Pichai scored some brownie points by firing Damore, what has fallen down the memory hole is the sexist comment by Microsoft CEO Satya Nadella : he stated that women should not ask for a raise as it was bad Karma. They should just trust Karma. Nadella exposed his Brahminical casteist attitudes with that comment. Brahmins have used Karma as a weapon to exploit and subjugate other castes, and women were especially abused and the abuse justified as Karmic . I wonder how much uproar there would have been if an Anglo CEO had told female employees that they would get just compensation if the Christian god wills it.

    http://time.com/3486673/microsofts-ceo-satya-nadella-women-work-gender-pay-gap/

    Damore got soo much heat in part because he fleshed out his views much more than Nadella but also because Damore is white. Damore is expendable ; he is a programmer, whereas Nadella is the CEO. Nadella’s comment is far worse because as the CEO, he has the kind of power that Damore doesn’t . The Mainstream media has essentially given Nadella a pass relative to Damore.

    In the US: Tata’s software unit and Infosys have both been accused of overwhelmingly hiring Indians over traditional Americans.

    In Britain: Hindu and Sikh upper castes both used their influence on the British government to prevent criminalization of caste discrimination. The House of Lords tried more than once to make Casteism illegal but both times they were defeated by Sikh and Hindu upper caste activists impressing their demands on members of parliament. Ambedkar, the Indian Dalit icon and co-author of their constitution said that Indians will take their caste prejudice with them when they move abroad.

    Read More
    • Replies: @rec1man
    Nadella is a Kamma Naidu dravidian, technically a Shudra
    , @EdgeSlider
    Yes, the US needs to put an end to chain immigration. The Muslims are the champions in abusing this system. US should also de-legalized arranged marriages and mail order brides. I think Uber liberal Netherlands has done just that.
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  157. @Beckow
    Crowded and very poor ($1.5k/GNP per capita per year) is different than just crowded. Mathematically even if India grows 7% per year it will still be hopelessly poor 25 years from now. That is stagnation.

    There are huge outflows of Indians (and other South Asians), the total migrants are in 10-20 million range and another 50-100 million are ready to move immediately as soon as their families are established in UK, US, Canada, Australia and can bring them in as part of chain migration. That is very substantial.

    Internally India is not cohesive. It is incredibly mismanaged, everybody is fighting for scraps, the extreme poverty has made the society dysfunctional.

    My point is that as long as this was largely contained within India, it was only a problem for people living there. But our esteemed leaders have decided to massively import India into the West - Clinton famously spoke to graduating Indian students about the 'opportunities for you in the US'. The combination of large numbers, hopelessness, and certain skills (that for example Sub-Saharan African don't have) makes the potential Indian migration tsunami the biggest risk for the West. Large parts will be turned into India-like places. Why are we doing this to ourselves?

    But our esteemed leaders have decided to massively import India into the West – Clinton famously spoke to graduating Indian students about the ‘opportunities for you in the US’.

    About 65,000 Indians immigrate into the United States each year. About half get green cards overseas and come here (typically family members/chain migrations) and the rest are Indians already here on non-permanent visas who adjust their status to immigrant, about 0.02% of our population, per year.

    That is not a “massive import of India into the United States.”

    https://www.dhs.gov/sites/default/files/publications/Lawful_Permanent_Residents_2014.pdf

    https://travel.state.gov/content/dam/visas/Statistics/AnnualReports/FY2016AnnualReport/FY16AnnualReport-TableXIV.pdf

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    • Replies: @Thomm
    My friend, you provided numbers. That is already far above the low IQs of these white trashionalists.

    I say this as a white person who detests these WN leftists who sully the white brand.
    , @Beckow
    You are wrong, and you probably know it. There are already 4-5 million Indians in US (and an additional million or so Pakistanis and other South Indians). About 300-400,000 additional ones are added each year. Canada, UK, Australia, and now more and more continental Europe also have millions.

    Do the math:
    - 180,000 HiBs (94% are Indian) with spouses
    In the last 10 years 2.6 million H1Bs have come to US - an official DHS number.
    H1Bs never go back, they literally almost all stay. Zucks and Co. make sure of that.
    - 65,000 green cards
    - 100,000 on 'student' visas
    - unknown number who come on visitor visas and simply stay - check out New Jersey or Northern California schools, they are overrun by Indians of undetermined ages, of course they all claim the right age to get most out of it. Documents are easy in India and liberals in schools don't ask too many questions.

    Exporting its desperate middle class people is India's biggest industry. Bigger than offshoring. They know what India is, they have no illusions, no foreign compounds to live in Mumbai. Too bad many here are enthusiastic about deceiving themselves and us.

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  158. rec1man says:
    @TelfoedJohn
    A reasonably balanced article:

    I’m An Ex-Google Woman Tech Leader And I’m Sick Of Our Approach To Diversity!... by Vidya Narayanan

    we paid premium salaries to bring a few women who did well in our interviews. But, they lacked the energy to put us into overdrive. Worse, they were starting to drain the energy from the rest of the team. Eventually, we had to do the right thing for the company and let them go.

    ... (our kids) are biologically meant to be fluent in math and analytics ...
     
    https://medium.com/the-mission/im-an-ex-google-woman-tech-leader-and-i-m-sick-of-our-approach-to-diversity-17008c5fe999

    The name Narayanan was also the name of a Dalit president of India - KR Narayanan. However, some wiki bios of people called Narayanan describe scribe caste beginnings.

    Narayanan is one of the names of the hindu god Vishnu

    her first name Vidya is very very comm0n among Tamil Brahmins
    Vidya in Sanskrit means Knowledge

    This woman is a Tamil Brahmin,

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    • Replies: @anonymous

    Narayanan is one of the names of the hindu god Vishnu
     
    You mean Vishnu of the "Rape of Tulsi" fame? That Vishnu?
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  159. rec1man says:
    @JohnnyWalker123
    Sikhs are vegetarians. On the other hand, I believe some of the Southern Indian groups (non-Brahmin) eat beef.

    About 50% of Sikhs are vegetarian

    Depends on the sub-sect or caste – The Namdhari Sikhs are vegetarian
    The Mazbhi ( untouchable ) Sikhs eat meat

    In South India, all the non-brahmin are non-vegetarian ( ex-beef )
    In kerala, all the non-brahmins eat beef , but this is a newer development due to commie ideology and gulf jobs

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  160. rec1man says:
    @wootzst
    Your comment is misleading on Shudras and vegetarianism.

    Brahmins were meat eaters, and not just meat eaters but beef eaters. It is due to indigenous influence that some of them adopted vegetarianism. Shudras were indigenous , evident by them not being twice born in the varna/caste system. But all indigenous Indian groups wouldn't have been vegetarian

    Since you have mentioned some time back you are a south Indian Brahmin, you will know that vegetarianism in India is especially concentrated in the Dravidian south. And you will know that the caste system in the South is a Brahmin import and different from the caste system in the north.

    The Southern caste system has only Brahmins and Shudras ; there is no Vaishyas and Kshatriya. The merchants , landowners, agriculturalists and royalty in the South are Shudras , if one goes by the Brahminical caste system but unlike the North, they were not physically subjugated. Shudras can be vegetarian or not . I am a Vellala (Dravidian) from Ceylon and a lot of Vellalas are Shaivites specifically (including many of my relatives and family) ; they are vegetarian from birth .

    Vegetarianism , not eating beef and the special place accorded to cows is not an Aryan custom, it is native and very likely Dravidian since these customs are strongest in the Dravidian south.

    View post on imgur.com

    Has a map of vegetarianism in India

    Tamil Nadu is 97% non-vegetarian

    Only Brahmins and Saiva Velala are vegetarian

    In Gujurat, 61% is Vegetarian
    Rajasthan is 75% Vegetarian
    Punjab is 67% Vegetarian

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  161. @Beckow
    Crowded and very poor ($1.5k/GNP per capita per year) is different than just crowded. Mathematically even if India grows 7% per year it will still be hopelessly poor 25 years from now. That is stagnation.

    There are huge outflows of Indians (and other South Asians), the total migrants are in 10-20 million range and another 50-100 million are ready to move immediately as soon as their families are established in UK, US, Canada, Australia and can bring them in as part of chain migration. That is very substantial.

    Internally India is not cohesive. It is incredibly mismanaged, everybody is fighting for scraps, the extreme poverty has made the society dysfunctional.

    My point is that as long as this was largely contained within India, it was only a problem for people living there. But our esteemed leaders have decided to massively import India into the West - Clinton famously spoke to graduating Indian students about the 'opportunities for you in the US'. The combination of large numbers, hopelessness, and certain skills (that for example Sub-Saharan African don't have) makes the potential Indian migration tsunami the biggest risk for the West. Large parts will be turned into India-like places. Why are we doing this to ourselves?

    “Mathematically even if India grows 7% per year it will still be hopelessly poor 25 years from now. That is stagnation.”

    Better take care taking out loans; you don’t understand compound interest.

    If (big if) they have 25 years of 7% growth, that will mean 5.4x increase in GDP. Population growth will be around 15% or so. India’s nominal GDP per capita is $1.8k (2016), so in 2041 it should be around $8k.

    $8k nominal isn’t too bad when you have a fairly high PPP multiplier. We’re talking southern Europe now, or Israel in the 70s.

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    • Agree: PiltdownMan
    • Replies: @PiltdownMan
    India's per capita GDP at purchasing power parity is currently at $6600. Assuming the multiplier of about 3.5x holds (another big if), per capita PPP basis GDP should be around $29,000 per year by 2041. But we're definitely talking middle-income country levels of household income by mid-century if growth holds up.
    , @uman
    so a pretty big military budget with low cost of personel.
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  162. KA says:
    @DBowman
    India has its own cultural Marxists and leftists who hate the dominant religion and people who profess it. The previous regime of Congress was a motley group of leftists who had accelerated the production and export of beef; they saw this as a subversive tactic as well since the dominant more proscribes it. Despite the fact that there are anti-cow slaughter laws in most states, it is possible to slaughter buffaloes and other non-milch cattle; this is what is exported as "beef" . Under the current nationalist dispensation, there is a crackdown of such things, so it is likely the exports will go down with time. Ironically, MacDonald's does not serve beef in any of its joints in the country.

    Beef exporting business is owned by Hindus

    Agra, November 21: Justice Rajinder Sachar, former chief justice of Delhi high court on Friday stoked a controversy when he said that more Hindus are involved in the beef trade in the country than Muslims. As Justice Rajinder Sachar made the statement on the beef row at the three-day ‘International Conference on Radical Islam’, where many of the teachers and participants walked out of the venue.
    On the last day of ‘International Conference on Radical Islam’ held at RC Degree College in Mathura, Justice Rajinder Sachar said that among all the beef traders in India, 95% are from the Hindu community. “Almost 95% beef traders are Hindus. Still, a man was lynched in Dadri because he ate beef. This is the death of mankind and humanity. Eating habits have nothing to do with religion. Even I can eat beef,” said Justice Sachar, who headed the committee that recommended quota for Muslims in 2006.
    Without taking the name of BJP’s Sardhana MLA Sangeet Som, who was recently in the news over allegations about owning a beef trading company, Justice Sachar said, “MPs and MLAs, too, own beef companies. Then why is only the common man being targeted by right-wing groups?”  http://www.india.com/news/india/hindu-beef-traders-why-all-the-fuss-over-justice-rajinder-sachars-remark-723206/

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    • Replies: @DBowman
    So if the Hindoo nationalist government cracks down on beef all these Hindoos who own the business should fall in line according to their tribal/religious loyalties. Sounds like it will be easier than thought.
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  163. Brachmane says:
    @Beckow
    India is the world's biggest problem because it has 1.4 billion people who live in an over-crowded, permanently dysfunctional country, with a lack of resources, lack of social cohesion, a civilization that has been taken apart and has become a brutal Malthusian fight for survival. There is very little that can be improved there and most people are trying to leave, at any cost. When you allow hundreds of millions of people from the Indian subcontinent to migrate to the better parts of the world, they will swamp and change for the worse all those places. And there are hundreds of millions that will actively try to leave (incl. Pakistan, Bangladesh). It is an unmanageable disaster for the West. Over time it will turn into a kind of India. This is not good, these are post-civilization trends.

    I agree that the Sub-Saharan Africa has been coming up and challenging India as the biggest problem for humanity, you are correct. But China less so, thanks to Mao and the rigid communist system, more resources, better culture, etc... I think parts of Middle East and Southeast Asia are more likely to cause massive issues for mankind in the future.

    Did I answer your question? Do you know anyone - anyone, anywhere - who is sane and has family, who would relocate to live in India? Of course, not. So your 'rapidly improving' is just a slogan, it means nothing in India context.

    Camp of the Saints nonsense… India is about as crowded as Japan or New Jersey. It has more arable land than China and thus a higher Malthusian limit. In any case, it’s TFR is for the most part under control. China actually overshot in population control and is facing a western style demographic crisis that will deeply limit future growth. Indians may have to immigrate to China in the future, you know, to help out.

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    • Replies: @peterike

    China actually overshot in population control and is facing a western style demographic crisis that will deeply limit future growth.

     

    There has never actually been a "demographic crisis" nor do we know if there ever will be. This is all just economic modelling from Economist types. Similar, in fact, to the climate modelling by global warming alarmists. Both groups know precisely how to put their thumbs on the scale to get the "results" that they want.
    , @Daniel Chieh

    Indians may have to immigrate to China in the future, you know, to help out.
     
    Hahaha.

    No.
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  164. @jimmyriddle
    "Mathematically even if India grows 7% per year it will still be hopelessly poor 25 years from now. That is stagnation."

    Better take care taking out loans; you don't understand compound interest.

    If (big if) they have 25 years of 7% growth, that will mean 5.4x increase in GDP. Population growth will be around 15% or so. India's nominal GDP per capita is $1.8k (2016), so in 2041 it should be around $8k.

    $8k nominal isn't too bad when you have a fairly high PPP multiplier. We're talking southern Europe now, or Israel in the 70s.

    India’s per capita GDP at purchasing power parity is currently at $6600. Assuming the multiplier of about 3.5x holds (another big if), per capita PPP basis GDP should be around $29,000 per year by 2041. But we’re definitely talking middle-income country levels of household income by mid-century if growth holds up.

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  165. uman says:
    @jimmyriddle
    "Mathematically even if India grows 7% per year it will still be hopelessly poor 25 years from now. That is stagnation."

    Better take care taking out loans; you don't understand compound interest.

    If (big if) they have 25 years of 7% growth, that will mean 5.4x increase in GDP. Population growth will be around 15% or so. India's nominal GDP per capita is $1.8k (2016), so in 2041 it should be around $8k.

    $8k nominal isn't too bad when you have a fairly high PPP multiplier. We're talking southern Europe now, or Israel in the 70s.

    so a pretty big military budget with low cost of personel.

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  166. peterike says:
    @Thomm
    Don't bother debating with an idiot like Beckow. He probably read 'Camp of the Saints' and lacks the intelligence to hold more information in his pea-brain than that.

    Plenty of white Western Expats live in India. Over 50,000, in fact.

    Plenty of white Western Expats live in India. Over 50,000, in fact.

    Gosh, all that many? In a nation of over a billion?

    Look Spanky, there are over four million Indians in the U.S. (2015 number) and more arriving every single day. To say nothing of their numbers across the rest of the Anglosphere. Don’t beclown yourself by pretending there is some kind of equivalency here.

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    • Replies: @Thomm
    Indians are the most successful ethnic group in the US, bar none. Their household income is twice that of whites. Think about it - the entire community is much more successful than you. On pure economics, the US would benefit from bringing more of the SKILLED Indians here.

    And the topic was not immigration, you moron, but whether anyone would live in India willingly. The fact that there are that many expats who have voluntarily lived there for years proves it.

    Then again, you are Peterike, who competes with Whiskey and Miles Mathis for title of 'dumbest WN'. You are on record stating that the West of 1925 is so much better than today.

    There is stupid and then there is Peterike stupid.

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  167. @Dot Not Feather
    Thank you for the kind words. Personally I am a traditionalist (and I think "worlds most reactionary civilization" is a compliment!) but I also dislike the romantic bullshit that gets slathered on any discussion of Indian history and culture by Indians and Westerners alike.


    Many people just made things up when the British talked to them in hopes of currying favor and gaining some advantage in a “new’ country.

     

    I disagree. I think the value of some of those colonial surveys is that they are not tainted by modern political correctness so they accurately depict how people actually thought of themselves. A lot of the early Indologists were not particularly well-versed in Sanskrit or Hindi etc. so they relied on native Pandits who interpreted notions such as caste according to their traditional notions. I believe the Gangetic Plain which was at the peak of its economic strength during that era really did have that kind of hyper-specialization. But as you say it doesn't mean it is relevant to discussion of the present day.


    The truth is that caste has indeed lost much salience in modern India, though less so in the rural areas. The only sphere of life where it matters is in marriage,

     

    That's where it matters the most but it also has some relevance in religious (obviously) and political preferences too.


    but that’s not because the bride and the groom are caste-conscious but because they prefer Mommy to pick their spouses, and Mommy prefers to stick to the caste system. By the next generation, that will change too.

     

    I'm not so sure about that. People have been declaring the demise of caste since before 1947 and here we are discussing it today. Western-style liberalism is dysgenic. The more liberal people become, the less they will marry and have children at all. The traditional-minded will eventually win out for that reason alone.

    “Western-style liberalism is dysgenic. The more liberal people become, the less they will marry and have children at all. The traditional-minded will eventually win out for that reason alone.”:

    This is mirrored in the American Jewish community; Orthodox Jewish(traditional) households are around %30 of NYC metro area Jewish households. Orthodox children are around %65 of Jewish children in NYC metro. As the fellow said “The future belongs to those who show up for it”.

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  168. peterike says:
    @Brachmane
    Camp of the Saints nonsense... India is about as crowded as Japan or New Jersey. It has more arable land than China and thus a higher Malthusian limit. In any case, it's TFR is for the most part under control. China actually overshot in population control and is facing a western style demographic crisis that will deeply limit future growth. Indians may have to immigrate to China in the future, you know, to help out.

    China actually overshot in population control and is facing a western style demographic crisis that will deeply limit future growth.

    There has never actually been a “demographic crisis” nor do we know if there ever will be. This is all just economic modelling from Economist types. Similar, in fact, to the climate modelling by global warming alarmists. Both groups know precisely how to put their thumbs on the scale to get the “results” that they want.

    Read More
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  169. anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @EdgeSlider
    ..works until some aggressive barbarians like the Muslim (India 1000 years ago) invaders come calling.

    ..works until some aggressive barbarians like the Muslim (India 1000 years ago) invaders come calling.

    Those “barbarians” gave that spiritually bankrupt land some memorable things such as, architecture, food, poetry, etc… and most importantly, a true understanding of God, not the batshit crazy polytheism which is practiced by every other peoples.

    If not for them “barbarians,” 150million souls of now would still be worshipping animals and an assortment of feuding “gods,” who resort to rape and other skullduggery, to get their way. Seriously!!

    Now, given that your kind has taken full possession of that land for 70 years now, what does it have to show for its standard of living? A big middle finger to sending 100 satellites into orbit, mars mission, nuclear weapons, etc.

    Internal state sponsored terrorism against minorities, by *** in and out of uniform, poor man suicides, large scale baby/child deaths, rapes, humongous scams, greed and corruption at every level, a PM who believes his land has/had the medical knowledge in plastic surgery to transplant an elephant’s head atop a human, etc…

    I suppose that is the reason dicks like you became ex-Indians? Yeah?

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  170. Google and Facebook should just up and move their HQ to India. Probably 40% of their blue badge employees and 100% of their contingent staff are already from India anyway, might as well go straight to the source of cheap labor. Why let the arcane US immigration system limit their access to a few million “best and brightest”, “highly skilled” when they can have a whole country full of them? All 1.2 billion Indians are born best and brightest, highly skilled. Of their remaining 60% of blue badge employees, maybe 40% or more are diversity hires anyway, no love lost there, please move these libtards as far away from America as possible.

    Then I’d love to see Mark Zuckerberg preach open borders to the Indians and offer millions in scholarships to illegal immigrants…to India.

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    • LOL: BB753
    • Replies: @epebble
    Actually, moving up a little north to Canada would be a good idea. Same time-zone, NAFTA makes moving around very easy. This would lower the pressure on Bay area resources and house prices may become a little more affordable. I don't know why someone from Vancouver or B.C. does not actively recruit from silicon valley like Texas and other States.
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  171. rec1man says:
    @Escher

    Sikhs are vegetarians.
     
    No they're not. Every Sikh I have known loves his chicken (no double entendre intended).

    It depends on the caste of the Sikh

    Namdhari Sikhs are 100% vegetarian

    Untouchable Sikhs are 100% non-veg

    Sikhs who have taken Amrit, ( religious orthodox ) tend to be veg

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  172. rec1man says:
    @wootzst
    @Steve Sailer

    Related to the James Damore controversy.

    While the media has gone after Damore, and Google CEO Pichai scored some brownie points by firing Damore, what has fallen down the memory hole is the sexist comment by Microsoft CEO Satya Nadella : he stated that women should not ask for a raise as it was bad Karma. They should just trust Karma. Nadella exposed his Brahminical casteist attitudes with that comment. Brahmins have used Karma as a weapon to exploit and subjugate other castes, and women were especially abused and the abuse justified as Karmic . I wonder how much uproar there would have been if an Anglo CEO had told female employees that they would get just compensation if the Christian god wills it.

    http://time.com/3486673/microsofts-ceo-satya-nadella-women-work-gender-pay-gap/

    Damore got soo much heat in part because he fleshed out his views much more than Nadella but also because Damore is white. Damore is expendable ; he is a programmer, whereas Nadella is the CEO. Nadella's comment is far worse because as the CEO, he has the kind of power that Damore doesn't . The Mainstream media has essentially given Nadella a pass relative to Damore.


    In the US: Tata's software unit and Infosys have both been accused of overwhelmingly hiring Indians over traditional Americans.

    In Britain: Hindu and Sikh upper castes both used their influence on the British government to prevent criminalization of caste discrimination. The House of Lords tried more than once to make Casteism illegal but both times they were defeated by Sikh and Hindu upper caste activists impressing their demands on members of parliament. Ambedkar, the Indian Dalit icon and co-author of their constitution said that Indians will take their caste prejudice with them when they move abroad.

    Nadella is a Kamma Naidu dravidian, technically a Shudra

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  173. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @Jack D
    The exported meat is supposedly that of water buffaloes, who are not sacred. Supposedly.

    India banned the export of ‘real’, (ie deceased persons) , human skeletons way back in 1985.
    Prior to that, India pretty much had the highly lucrative global medical school market sewn (or, rather, wired, up), bearing in mind that each one of the world’s countless thousand 1st year medical students requires a skeleton of his own, as the Clash might have put it.
    The result has been a stubborn decades old ‘worldwide bone shortage’. Full skeletons, never mind skulls, chiropractors’ backbones etc now fetch exorbitant prices, and the trend is for very old skeletons, dating to at least Victorian times to be reused.
    Genuine human skeletons for non-medical uses such as the dramatic etc, are now almost unobtainable.

    Apparently, previous to the general bone ban, the main dealing houses in human bones, invariably based in Kolkata, generally, literally fished putrid cadavers from the Hooghly etc, bound them in net curtain, and let the fish and bacteria do the rest. It was a very big, lucrative business with several rival big bone brokers competing in the export trade, having their showrooms, warehouses and trade facilities adjacent.
    The smell in those environs was said, inevitably, to be ‘terrible’.

    In his diaries, that great magician and celebrated diabolist, Aleister Crowley, writes of ‘purchasing a human skeleton’ from the extant London house of Messrs. Milliken & Lawley, around the 1900s, as casually as one would describe purchasing a joint of beef.

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  174. @Stan Adams
    Did you like the 1965 immigration act and the 1986 amnesty? The late-'60s crime spike and the white flight? Vietnam? Watergate? Feminism? Gay liberation and the mainstreaming of sexual perversion? The rise of Cultural Marxism?

    My earliest memories are from the late '80s, so I wasn't there to watch it all unfold firsthand. (It must have been a fascinating spectacle.) But seeing what this country is now, and hearing about what it once was, leads me to believe that the folks who ran America in the latter part of the twentieth century ran it into the ground.

    I've been told more than once that everything went to hell around 1970. Again, I wasn't there.

    I was also born around 1980, but I gather that many of the things you complain about really started to impact people’s lives after 1990, which is why the period 1940-1990 was given.

    Also, it’s apparent that I’m more libertine than many iSteve readers.

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  175. @Brachmane
    Camp of the Saints nonsense... India is about as crowded as Japan or New Jersey. It has more arable land than China and thus a higher Malthusian limit. In any case, it's TFR is for the most part under control. China actually overshot in population control and is facing a western style demographic crisis that will deeply limit future growth. Indians may have to immigrate to China in the future, you know, to help out.

    Indians may have to immigrate to China in the future, you know, to help out.

    Hahaha.

    No.

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    • Replies: @epochehusserl
    India and China were appearing to have a border skirmish. What do you think about this?
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  176. anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @MG
    For all the hate and/or snark directed at Indians here, the reality is that Indians are fundamentally allies to Americans. It is China that you should be targeting. Indians students and software professionals here are not proxies of the Indian government.

    “fundamentally allies”

    Hindu India is as much an “ally” of America, as Jew Israel is to America *wink*

    I bet the two supremacist/delusional nations are conniving as we speak, on how to “use” America for their own nefarious goals.

    “Indians students and software professionals here are not proxies of the Indian government.”

    Given that most of the diaspora loves to lick a certain murderer’s nether regions… riiight!!

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  177. rec1man says:
    @Jack D

    even the ugliest get a spouse in the arranged marriage system.
     
    That there has been no selection for attractiveness really shows. Because Bollywood gets its pick of over 1/2 billion women there are some very attractive Bollywood starlets from the top 1/1oth of 1%, but in terms of average looks Indian women are among the least attractive on earth.

    Average attractiveness varies by caste and castes with higher % of Aryan blood have hot women

    Go to JeevanSathi,com and you can see photos by caste of matrimonial market

    Most bollywood actresses are of Khatri Caste – Punjabi merchants

    on Jeevansathi.com, even among ordinary khatri women, high % of hot women

    https://pix.sfly.com/Y9OQoM

    This is my wife, Tamil Brahmin, through arranged marriage

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    • Replies: @EdgeSlider
    Dude, I cannot see much in the picture.
    Another problem, most Indian women (and men) don't take care of themselves by way of working out, stylish clothes, hairstyles, makeup etc. And the ridiculous vegetarian diet does'nt help with body tone, skin/hair etc. Low testosterone and the feminine culture is another problem with men. The pathetic Indian sports scene tells it all for you.

    Bramins are pretty smart, perhaps as smart as the Askenazis but they have 2 problems
    1. Low T due to vegetarianism
    2. The culture is awfully feminie culture (this is why a lot of white chicks dig it)
    3. They and their culture and mindset is conservative, since they are the consummate insiders of the society they are elites of.
    The result of the above three handicaps: The bramins do not take much intellectual risks or engage in free-thinking and creative thinking compared to other high IQ elites, such as the Askanazis and smart goyims.
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  178. Apparently socialism is also hereditary. Some of the most socialist libtard anti-Trumpers in the country are of Indian origin. Our local elections are dominated by Jews and Indians, all trying out to out liberal one another. The biggest socialist libtard in the Seattle city council is this woman named Kshama Sawant, an Indian immigrant who still speaks with an Indian accent. You would think growing up in India would wise her up and make her realize socialism is what’s hobbling India but no, she’s trying to turn Seattle into the next Mumbai. Everywhere you go in Seattle you see homeless encampments, with filth, crime and poverty level rivaling those of Dharavi, Mumbai, while this woman goes around with a megaphone at every protest (which is every other weekend in Seattle) calling for the head of Trump, and for more libtard socialist policies in Seattle like regulating work hours, forcing landlords to rent to first person who shows up, more money for the homeless, more injection centers, and fighting the Trump EO on temp. muslim ban etc.

    Why are these people here? Why don’t they go back to India and preach for more open borders, more homeless camps, taking in more Muslim refugees etc.? These are the “best and brightest” we’ve been bringing in from India. I think they’ve benefited us enough. It’s time for them to all go back to India and benefit their own country.

    You don’t see the Cubans, Chinese or Eastern Europeans coming out in drove to support Obama or socialism. Many are big Trump supporters. They know first hand socialism doesn’t work and are smart enough to not want more, and they have no desire to turn the US into the next commie shithole. Indians have socialism beaten into their brains or something, it’s hereditary for them.

    Read More
    • Replies: @peterike

    Indians have socialism beaten into their brains or something, it’s hereditary for them.

     

    It's nothing whatever to do with socialism, or politics really. Indians are champion status, wealth and power seekers, and it doesn't take more than a few minutes in Seattle to know the route to power is extreme Leftism. Indians can taste this stuff in the water. Chinese can too, but they are often blocked by poor English skills to moving into politics; though their Americanized children are doing just that, and in precisely the same SJW mold.

    If the dominant Narrative is SJW-ism set to 10, then an Indian is going to take it to 12 or 13. While they are allied with Jews now, the Jews better watch it as the Asians are going to do an end-around on them. It will take some time for the power to shift -- generations even -- but it will, if nothing else by sheer force of numbers on the Asian side.

    The Asian future of America is not going to be pretty.
    , @EdgeSlider
    Worst of all, these same Indian "Progressive" phoneys you see go home and vote for /support the most Right wing party in India, the BJP and its radical brown shirt wing the RSS (which is actually doing a good job, but that is beside the point)
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  179. @Anatoly Karlin
    Indian society is so genuinely fascinating.

    “Indian society is so genuinely fascinating.”

    Only to outsiders. I can imagine it’s not much fun for anyone born into a lower caste or stuck in one of the lower professions. Which explains why so many want to get the hell out of India the first chance they get. India’s biggest export is its people. Unfortunately they bring with them all the horrible aspects of their culture when they emigrate, continuing to practice caste preferences in hiring in US corporations, in arranged marriages, and trying to extend Indian style socialism to America by being active in politics. There are many Indians running for office in my area, all are first generation immigrants, and every single one of them is running as a Democrat, professing support for the most liberal of all policies.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Thomm
    There are many Indians running for office in my area, all are first generation immigrants, and every single one of them is running as a Democrat,

    Yeah, Democrats like Bobby Jindal, Niki Haley, and Neel Kashkari.

    Plus, Dinesh D'Souza was the first political author from India to become prominent here. Some Democrat he is.

    You are quite ignorant, but I expect nothing less from a low IQ white trashionalist.

    and trying to extend Indian style socialism to America by being active in politics.

    er... India today is more capitalist than the US. India's economy grows at 7.5% while the West is about 1.5%.

    It is not 1949 anymore, muchacho.
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  180. @Daniel Chieh

    Indians may have to immigrate to China in the future, you know, to help out.
     
    Hahaha.

    No.

    India and China were appearing to have a border skirmish. What do you think about this?

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    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    Nothing new under the sun. Probably won't amount to anything, perhaps it'll be good for Hindi nationalists to have a cause to rally too.
    , @EdgeSlider
    China is majorly humiliating itself with its over the top rhetoric about the size of its genitals for the past 60+ days over what it claims is an "Indian invasion". China is a much more powerful country than India, but I hear at the border area in question, India has an advantage. Over the entire India-China border, it is a no-win situation for both because the border also happens to be the World's highest mountain range. India on the other hand has been uncharacteristically quiet, mature but firm in its response so far.
    So, bottom line, China can continue to scream like a pipsqueak power at a mature sounding India and continue to lose face, or attack and loose/draw a limited war or go nuclear over a piece of uninhabited barren rock, while US-Japan-Korea-Australia-Taiwan-Vietnam-Phillipines-Indonesia breathes down China's front door - the Indo-Pacific sea sometimes reffered to as the South China Sea area.
    Chine is in some deep dodo there.
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  181. anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @rec1man
    Narayanan is one of the names of the hindu god Vishnu

    her first name Vidya is very very comm0n among Tamil Brahmins
    Vidya in Sanskrit means Knowledge

    This woman is a Tamil Brahmin,

    Narayanan is one of the names of the hindu god Vishnu

    You mean Vishnu of the “Rape of Tulsi” fame? That Vishnu?

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    • Replies: @rec1man
    Yes that Vishnu

    just like Jehovah is the rapist of the Virgin Mary
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  182. @epochehusserl
    India and China were appearing to have a border skirmish. What do you think about this?

    Nothing new under the sun. Probably won’t amount to anything, perhaps it’ll be good for Hindi nationalists to have a cause to rally too.

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    • Replies: @Anonymous

    Probably won’t amount to anything, perhaps it’ll be good for Hindi nationalists to have a cause to rally too.
     
    That would be Hindu nationalists.

    Hindu=a person belonging to or adjective pertaining to the Hindu religion.

    Hindi= A language spoken by a third of all Indians.

    Nothing causes foreign commentators on India to lose authority faster than this particular solecism.

    Unless it is misspelling Gandhi as Ghandi.
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  183. epebble says:
    @Indian summer
    Google and Facebook should just up and move their HQ to India. Probably 40% of their blue badge employees and 100% of their contingent staff are already from India anyway, might as well go straight to the source of cheap labor. Why let the arcane US immigration system limit their access to a few million "best and brightest", "highly skilled" when they can have a whole country full of them? All 1.2 billion Indians are born best and brightest, highly skilled. Of their remaining 60% of blue badge employees, maybe 40% or more are diversity hires anyway, no love lost there, please move these libtards as far away from America as possible.

    Then I'd love to see Mark Zuckerberg preach open borders to the Indians and offer millions in scholarships to illegal immigrants...to India.

    Actually, moving up a little north to Canada would be a good idea. Same time-zone, NAFTA makes moving around very easy. This would lower the pressure on Bay area resources and house prices may become a little more affordable. I don’t know why someone from Vancouver or B.C. does not actively recruit from silicon valley like Texas and other States.

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  184. rec1man says:
    @anonymous

    Narayanan is one of the names of the hindu god Vishnu
     
    You mean Vishnu of the "Rape of Tulsi" fame? That Vishnu?

    Yes that Vishnu

    just like Jehovah is the rapist of the Virgin Mary

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    • Replies: @BB753
    Actually it was the Holy Spirit who impregnated the Virgin Mary.
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  185. peterike says:
    @Indians and socialism
    Apparently socialism is also hereditary. Some of the most socialist libtard anti-Trumpers in the country are of Indian origin. Our local elections are dominated by Jews and Indians, all trying out to out liberal one another. The biggest socialist libtard in the Seattle city council is this woman named Kshama Sawant, an Indian immigrant who still speaks with an Indian accent. You would think growing up in India would wise her up and make her realize socialism is what's hobbling India but no, she's trying to turn Seattle into the next Mumbai. Everywhere you go in Seattle you see homeless encampments, with filth, crime and poverty level rivaling those of Dharavi, Mumbai, while this woman goes around with a megaphone at every protest (which is every other weekend in Seattle) calling for the head of Trump, and for more libtard socialist policies in Seattle like regulating work hours, forcing landlords to rent to first person who shows up, more money for the homeless, more injection centers, and fighting the Trump EO on temp. muslim ban etc.

    Why are these people here? Why don't they go back to India and preach for more open borders, more homeless camps, taking in more Muslim refugees etc.? These are the "best and brightest" we've been bringing in from India. I think they've benefited us enough. It's time for them to all go back to India and benefit their own country.

    You don't see the Cubans, Chinese or Eastern Europeans coming out in drove to support Obama or socialism. Many are big Trump supporters. They know first hand socialism doesn't work and are smart enough to not want more, and they have no desire to turn the US into the next commie shithole. Indians have socialism beaten into their brains or something, it's hereditary for them.

    Indians have socialism beaten into their brains or something, it’s hereditary for them.

    It’s nothing whatever to do with socialism, or politics really. Indians are champion status, wealth and power seekers, and it doesn’t take more than a few minutes in Seattle to know the route to power is extreme Leftism. Indians can taste this stuff in the water. Chinese can too, but they are often blocked by poor English skills to moving into politics; though their Americanized children are doing just that, and in precisely the same SJW mold.

    If the dominant Narrative is SJW-ism set to 10, then an Indian is going to take it to 12 or 13. While they are allied with Jews now, the Jews better watch it as the Asians are going to do an end-around on them. It will take some time for the power to shift — generations even — but it will, if nothing else by sheer force of numbers on the Asian side.

    The Asian future of America is not going to be pretty.

    Read More
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  186. Thomm says:
    @Steve Sailer
    How many Europeans lived in India in Kipling's day?

    Gandhi seemed to mention 120,000 British officers in 1920. Kipling was before that, but perhaps a similar number.

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    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Joe Strummer's dad was born in Lucknow.

    Orwell, Thackeray, and Kipling were born in India. That might be a better Top 3 Writers than, say, Australia has.

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  187. res says:
    @TelfoedJohn
    A reasonably balanced article:

    I’m An Ex-Google Woman Tech Leader And I’m Sick Of Our Approach To Diversity!... by Vidya Narayanan

    we paid premium salaries to bring a few women who did well in our interviews. But, they lacked the energy to put us into overdrive. Worse, they were starting to drain the energy from the rest of the team. Eventually, we had to do the right thing for the company and let them go.

    ... (our kids) are biologically meant to be fluent in math and analytics ...
     
    https://medium.com/the-mission/im-an-ex-google-woman-tech-leader-and-i-m-sick-of-our-approach-to-diversity-17008c5fe999

    The name Narayanan was also the name of a Dalit president of India - KR Narayanan. However, some wiki bios of people called Narayanan describe scribe caste beginnings.

    Thank you so much for that! Finally, a woman who lives it, gets it, AND is willing to go on record. I wonder how much criticism she will get from the pro-diversity side despite the virtue signalling bits. The comments are excellent as well.

    Another sample, but please go read the whole thing if you are interested in the women in tech issue:

    Feminist outbursts are driving even the most genuine of men away from us. Some men do want to understand, support and grow the women in tech community. But when we kick and scream about diversity without solving the root of the problem, we are alienating everybody, even the ones that want to help.

    (I would add “blame and shame the men in tech” to the kicking and screaming part)

    Link repeated to make it easy to go read it: https://medium.com/the-mission/im-an-ex-google-woman-tech-leader-and-i-m-sick-of-our-approach-to-diversity-17008c5fe999

    I see the same sort of issue in women’s sports advocacy and find it so much easier to deal with viewpoints like Vidya’s than with the “Serena Williams can beat the best men and you are sexist if you say different” crew.

    P.S. The article she links at the beginning to help establish her “feminist credibility” and keep the usual suspects from tuning out is also interesting: https://medium.com/the-mission/balancing-brains-beauty-boobs-booty-787f9f78605b

    P.P.S. This should really get a link in one of the Damore threads.

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  188. Thomm says:
    @PiltdownMan

    But our esteemed leaders have decided to massively import India into the West – Clinton famously spoke to graduating Indian students about the ‘opportunities for you in the US’.
     
    About 65,000 Indians immigrate into the United States each year. About half get green cards overseas and come here (typically family members/chain migrations) and the rest are Indians already here on non-permanent visas who adjust their status to immigrant, about 0.02% of our population, per year.

    That is not a "massive import of India into the United States."

    https://www.dhs.gov/sites/default/files/publications/Lawful_Permanent_Residents_2014.pdf

    https://travel.state.gov/content/dam/visas/Statistics/AnnualReports/FY2016AnnualReport/FY16AnnualReport-TableXIV.pdf

    My friend, you provided numbers. That is already far above the low IQs of these white trashionalists.

    I say this as a white person who detests these WN leftists who sully the white brand.

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  189. Beckow says:
    @PiltdownMan

    But our esteemed leaders have decided to massively import India into the West – Clinton famously spoke to graduating Indian students about the ‘opportunities for you in the US’.
     
    About 65,000 Indians immigrate into the United States each year. About half get green cards overseas and come here (typically family members/chain migrations) and the rest are Indians already here on non-permanent visas who adjust their status to immigrant, about 0.02% of our population, per year.

    That is not a "massive import of India into the United States."

    https://www.dhs.gov/sites/default/files/publications/Lawful_Permanent_Residents_2014.pdf

    https://travel.state.gov/content/dam/visas/Statistics/AnnualReports/FY2016AnnualReport/FY16AnnualReport-TableXIV.pdf

    You are wrong, and you probably know it. There are already 4-5 million Indians in US (and an additional million or so Pakistanis and other South Indians). About 300-400,000 additional ones are added each year. Canada, UK, Australia, and now more and more continental Europe also have millions.

    Do the math:
    - 180,000 HiBs (94% are Indian) with spouses
    In the last 10 years 2.6 million H1Bs have come to US – an official DHS number.
    H1Bs never go back, they literally almost all stay. Zucks and Co. make sure of that.
    - 65,000 green cards
    - 100,000 on ‘student’ visas
    - unknown number who come on visitor visas and simply stay – check out New Jersey or Northern California schools, they are overrun by Indians of undetermined ages, of course they all claim the right age to get most out of it. Documents are easy in India and liberals in schools don’t ask too many questions.

    Exporting its desperate middle class people is India’s biggest industry. Bigger than offshoring. They know what India is, they have no illusions, no foreign compounds to live in Mumbai. Too bad many here are enthusiastic about deceiving themselves and us.

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  190. Thomm says:
    @peterike

    Plenty of white Western Expats live in India. Over 50,000, in fact.

     

    Gosh, all that many? In a nation of over a billion?

    Look Spanky, there are over four million Indians in the U.S. (2015 number) and more arriving every single day. To say nothing of their numbers across the rest of the Anglosphere. Don't beclown yourself by pretending there is some kind of equivalency here.

    Indians are the most successful ethnic group in the US, bar none. Their household income is twice that of whites. Think about it – the entire community is much more successful than you. On pure economics, the US would benefit from bringing more of the SKILLED Indians here.

    And the topic was not immigration, you moron, but whether anyone would live in India willingly. The fact that there are that many expats who have voluntarily lived there for years proves it.

    Then again, you are Peterike, who competes with Whiskey and Miles Mathis for title of ‘dumbest WN’. You are on record stating that the West of 1925 is so much better than today.

    There is stupid and then there is Peterike stupid.

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  191. Thomm says:

    BTW, here is the economic performance of immigrant groups :

    Indians in the US are in a class by themselves. That is how I became a fan of them.

    And yes, while the immigrant Indians are above the average IQ in India, they are not THAT much higher, as the wealthy in India are not the ones leaving. The ones leaving India for the US are specifically ‘educated but poor’.

    Steve – this warrants further study. You know that this is not merely ‘high caste’ Indians, as many Indians in the US are quite dark-skinned. Plus, Sri Lanka is much more prosperous than Pakistan or Afghanistan, so Caucasian-ness is not the only factor in success.

    An underachieving white trashionalist like Peterike or Beckow would be the bottom 1% of the Indian-American community.

    Read More
    • Replies: @rec1man
    The chart you provided is from Devesh Kapur book, The Other 1% ;

    It has another chart showing median income of various linguistic groups of Indians

    The most Caucasoid are the Punjabi with $80k and the least Caucasoid are the Telugu ( Dravidians ) with $140k

    The key to Indian success is family structure, - no dating - no premarital sex - no illegitimate children - no divorce - no drugs - no drinking - in short , tight self-control

    and of course arranged marriages for stability
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  192. Thomm says:
    @Indians and socialism
    "Indian society is so genuinely fascinating."

    Only to outsiders. I can imagine it's not much fun for anyone born into a lower caste or stuck in one of the lower professions. Which explains why so many want to get the hell out of India the first chance they get. India's biggest export is its people. Unfortunately they bring with them all the horrible aspects of their culture when they emigrate, continuing to practice caste preferences in hiring in US corporations, in arranged marriages, and trying to extend Indian style socialism to America by being active in politics. There are many Indians running for office in my area, all are first generation immigrants, and every single one of them is running as a Democrat, professing support for the most liberal of all policies.

    There are many Indians running for office in my area, all are first generation immigrants, and every single one of them is running as a Democrat,

    Yeah, Democrats like Bobby Jindal, Niki Haley, and Neel Kashkari.

    Plus, Dinesh D’Souza was the first political author from India to become prominent here. Some Democrat he is.

    You are quite ignorant, but I expect nothing less from a low IQ white trashionalist.

    and trying to extend Indian style socialism to America by being active in politics.

    er… India today is more capitalist than the US. India’s economy grows at 7.5% while the West is about 1.5%.

    It is not 1949 anymore, muchacho.

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  193. res says:
    @HBD Guy
    What about a blog post on this Steve?

    https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/how-do-life/201708/the-case-not-giving-grades

    The Case for Not Giving Grades
    Furthering intrinsic motivation while reducing undue student stress.
    Posted Aug 10, 2017
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    Wikimedia, CC 3.0
    Source: Wikimedia, CC 3.0
    A University of Georgia professor is being ridiculed for offering a class in which students can give themselves any grade they want.

    Predictably, that’s pointed to as the latest example of colleges’ dumbing-down so a bachelor's degree attests to little more than having paid all that money.

    And certainly, legitimate arguments can be made in favor of grades. After all, few of us would go to work every day if we didn’t get paid—Grades are students’ pay. Indeed, most students do work harder and thus learn more when they have to earn a good grade.

    But underdiscussed, a case can be made not only for allowing students to grade themselves but for eliminating grades except for on a comprehensive exam that must be passed before graduation. (See this article's last section.)

    Intrinsic motivation is superior to extrinsic. We’d rather our child behave well because s/he believes it’s the right thing to do than simply to get a reward or avoid a punishment. After all, throughout life, we’re asked to do the right thing in the absence of external consequences. Eliminating grades moves motivation from extrinsic to intrinsic.

    And if the instructor does his or her job—teaching material that’s important to students’ lives, does so in a compelling way, and gives assignments that are meaningful to students, many will work hard. Issuing grades is a way for professors to get away with poor instruction—Even in the worst-taught courses, most students will work hard to get the grade.

    Students focusing on the grade causes many to cut class, use Cliff's Notes, cheat on exams, and buy term papers—That’s a thriving industry that would decline if there were no grades and if, before getting a diploma, students had to pass the comprehensive graduation exam described below.

    Of course, some students aren’t mature enough to work hard despite a lack of grades, and candidly, when I was in college, one professor did tell us upfront we’d all get A’s and I did work less because of that. But it’s at least arguable that greater net good accrues from eliminating grades.

    The case for eliminating grades is strengthened by the need to reduce student stress. Today’s college students face greater pressure than we may acknowledge. Today, many students who did poorly in high school are being pushed into college, where they usually do poorly despite hard work—To not go to college is viewed, unfortunately, as a path to second-class citizenship. That’s ironic because the competent tradesperson is worthy of at least as much respect as is the typical career-undertrained bachelor’s degree holder from Podunk State. And all college students are facing a more challenging future than did the previous generation College and housing are much less affordable today and the job market for good jobs is tougher. Ever more white-collar jobs are requiring technical and soft skills and the Damoclean swords of automation and offshoring hang close to employees’ necks.

    The graduation exam

    Yes, before granting students a bachelor’s degree, they should be required to pass an exam attesting to bachelor’s-level competence in reading, writing, critical thinking, quantitative reasoning, citizenship, connoisseurship, and in one's major. While of course, that high-stakes exam would be stressful, it serves the crucial purpose of ensuring that the diploma is worth more than the paper it’s written on.

    But it’s undue piety to tsk-tsk at a professor who dares to try an experiment in building intrinsic motivation while reducing student stress by, in one course, allowing students to grade themselves. I'd like to see an experiment in which one of the nation's colleges that is struggling to stay afloat, eliminated all grades except for said comprehensive exam.

    Update: A reader, Peter Christiansen, emailed me to say that the New York Times just reported on a successful such experiment with middle-school students.

    Dr. Nemko’s nine books are available. You can reach career and personal coach Marty Nemko at mnemko@comcast.net (link sends e-mail).

    The graduation exam

    Yes, before granting students a bachelor’s degree, they should be required to pass an exam attesting to bachelor’s-level competence in reading, writing, critical thinking, quantitative reasoning, citizenship, connoisseurship, and in one’s major. While of course, that high-stakes exam would be stressful, it serves the crucial purpose of ensuring that the diploma is worth more than the paper it’s written on.

    Update: A reader, Peter Christiansen, emailed me to say that the New York Times just reported on a successful such experiment with middle-school students.

    Link to the NYT article: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/11/nyregion/mastery-based-learning-no-grades.html

    School demographic information for Middle School 442 Carroll Gardens School For Innovation: http://public-schools.startclass.com/l/61402/New-Horizons-School

    Interestingly the school is mostly Hispanic and Black. I wonder how the program will work out. I think the big problem with the competency based approach is that typically disparate impact is even worse than the status quo. Unless the test is watered down so much as to be basically useless.

    I think it is worth mentioning that I think the people who most like the idea of no grades are the same people who least like the idea of a final test requirement.

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  194. res says:
    @Reg Cæsar

    One would think that working for a bank would be a humiliating experience for a good communist, even as they try to make a new life for themselves in the West. Can anyone throw some light on this?
     
    Yes. Your first mistake was assuming anyone on the Left talks or acts in good faith, or possesses any shame. Take some cynicism supplements.

    Horton hears a Who/Whom.

    Horton hears a Who/Whom.

    I’m stealing that. I wonder if more riffing on the book like that is possible.

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  195. res says:
    @Stan Adams
    Did you like the 1965 immigration act and the 1986 amnesty? The late-'60s crime spike and the white flight? Vietnam? Watergate? Feminism? Gay liberation and the mainstreaming of sexual perversion? The rise of Cultural Marxism?

    My earliest memories are from the late '80s, so I wasn't there to watch it all unfold firsthand. (It must have been a fascinating spectacle.) But seeing what this country is now, and hearing about what it once was, leads me to believe that the folks who ran America in the latter part of the twentieth century ran it into the ground.

    I've been told more than once that everything went to hell around 1970. Again, I wasn't there.

    I’ve been told more than once that everything went to hell around 1970. Again, I wasn’t there.

    There was a bit of a perfect storm from 1965-1975:
    - Civil rights
    - The Vietnam War
    - The 60s protest culture
    - Immigration changes
    - The first oil shock
    - Watergate
    (any more?)

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    • Replies: @Anonymous
    'Stagflation'.
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  196. BB753 says:
    @rec1man
    Yes that Vishnu

    just like Jehovah is the rapist of the Virgin Mary

    Actually it was the Holy Spirit who impregnated the Virgin Mary.

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  197. @wootzst
    @Steve Sailer

    Related to the James Damore controversy.

    While the media has gone after Damore, and Google CEO Pichai scored some brownie points by firing Damore, what has fallen down the memory hole is the sexist comment by Microsoft CEO Satya Nadella : he stated that women should not ask for a raise as it was bad Karma. They should just trust Karma. Nadella exposed his Brahminical casteist attitudes with that comment. Brahmins have used Karma as a weapon to exploit and subjugate other castes, and women were especially abused and the abuse justified as Karmic . I wonder how much uproar there would have been if an Anglo CEO had told female employees that they would get just compensation if the Christian god wills it.

    http://time.com/3486673/microsofts-ceo-satya-nadella-women-work-gender-pay-gap/

    Damore got soo much heat in part because he fleshed out his views much more than Nadella but also because Damore is white. Damore is expendable ; he is a programmer, whereas Nadella is the CEO. Nadella's comment is far worse because as the CEO, he has the kind of power that Damore doesn't . The Mainstream media has essentially given Nadella a pass relative to Damore.


    In the US: Tata's software unit and Infosys have both been accused of overwhelmingly hiring Indians over traditional Americans.

    In Britain: Hindu and Sikh upper castes both used their influence on the British government to prevent criminalization of caste discrimination. The House of Lords tried more than once to make Casteism illegal but both times they were defeated by Sikh and Hindu upper caste activists impressing their demands on members of parliament. Ambedkar, the Indian Dalit icon and co-author of their constitution said that Indians will take their caste prejudice with them when they move abroad.

    Yes, the US needs to put an end to chain immigration. The Muslims are the champions in abusing this system. US should also de-legalized arranged marriages and mail order brides. I think Uber liberal Netherlands has done just that.

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  198. @Numinous
    You don't cover yourself in glory by regurgitating observations made by 19th century British colonials in India and using that to pontificate on what India is like today, Mr Sailer! India may or may not be the world's most reactionary civilization, but it's an every-changing one, like every other civilization. There's a world of difference between the India of 1868 and the India of 2017, just like there's a world of difference between the America of 1868 and that of 2017.

    As for these "surveys" you report on, I'd take them with a huge pinch of salt. The population of India had seen its society and world-view completely upended at the time by the British, and they it knew that the Englishman was the master, at least for the time being. Many people just made things up when the British talked to them in hopes of currying favor and gaining some advantage in a "new' country.

    You have Indians commenting on your blog, many of whom are sympathetic to your ideology. Listen to them to understand what India is like instead of digging up colonial texts. One comment from the likes of Dot not Feather is worth more than a shelf of colonial writings on the topic.

    As for caste, I understand it's an anthropological curiosity to you and most of your commenters, who like to take a little bit of real information and spin fantasies around it. The truth is that caste has indeed lost much salience in modern India, though less so in the rural areas. The only sphere of life where it matters is in marriage, but that's not because the bride and the groom are caste-conscious but because they prefer Mommy to pick their spouses, and Mommy prefers to stick to the caste system. By the next generation, that will change too. Inter-caste marriages in India are like interracial marriages in the US; still a minority phenomenon, but rapidly increasing in proportion.

    Dude, in the long term we will all be dead. Also heard, India has potential and it will always have it. India is the country of the future, it always will be. So this caste business is going away, and will always be going away.

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  199. @Indians and socialism
    Apparently socialism is also hereditary. Some of the most socialist libtard anti-Trumpers in the country are of Indian origin. Our local elections are dominated by Jews and Indians, all trying out to out liberal one another. The biggest socialist libtard in the Seattle city council is this woman named Kshama Sawant, an Indian immigrant who still speaks with an Indian accent. You would think growing up in India would wise her up and make her realize socialism is what's hobbling India but no, she's trying to turn Seattle into the next Mumbai. Everywhere you go in Seattle you see homeless encampments, with filth, crime and poverty level rivaling those of Dharavi, Mumbai, while this woman goes around with a megaphone at every protest (which is every other weekend in Seattle) calling for the head of Trump, and for more libtard socialist policies in Seattle like regulating work hours, forcing landlords to rent to first person who shows up, more money for the homeless, more injection centers, and fighting the Trump EO on temp. muslim ban etc.

    Why are these people here? Why don't they go back to India and preach for more open borders, more homeless camps, taking in more Muslim refugees etc.? These are the "best and brightest" we've been bringing in from India. I think they've benefited us enough. It's time for them to all go back to India and benefit their own country.

    You don't see the Cubans, Chinese or Eastern Europeans coming out in drove to support Obama or socialism. Many are big Trump supporters. They know first hand socialism doesn't work and are smart enough to not want more, and they have no desire to turn the US into the next commie shithole. Indians have socialism beaten into their brains or something, it's hereditary for them.

    Worst of all, these same Indian “Progressive” phoneys you see go home and vote for /support the most Right wing party in India, the BJP and its radical brown shirt wing the RSS (which is actually doing a good job, but that is beside the point)

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  200. @rec1man
    Average attractiveness varies by caste and castes with higher % of Aryan blood have hot women

    Go to JeevanSathi,com and you can see photos by caste of matrimonial market

    Most bollywood actresses are of Khatri Caste - Punjabi merchants

    on Jeevansathi.com, even among ordinary khatri women, high % of hot women

    https://pix.sfly.com/Y9OQoM

    This is my wife, Tamil Brahmin, through arranged marriage

    Dude, I cannot see much in the picture.
    Another problem, most Indian women (and men) don’t take care of themselves by way of working out, stylish clothes, hairstyles, makeup etc. And the ridiculous vegetarian diet does’nt help with body tone, skin/hair etc. Low testosterone and the feminine culture is another problem with men. The pathetic Indian sports scene tells it all for you.

    Bramins are pretty smart, perhaps as smart as the Askenazis but they have 2 problems
    1. Low T due to vegetarianism
    2. The culture is awfully feminie culture (this is why a lot of white chicks dig it)
    3. They and their culture and mindset is conservative, since they are the consummate insiders of the society they are elites of.
    The result of the above three handicaps: The bramins do not take much intellectual risks or engage in free-thinking and creative thinking compared to other high IQ elites, such as the Askanazis and smart goyims.

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    • Replies: @rec1man
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sakshi_Malik , she won the 2016 medal for wrestling and is from a vegetarian caste

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sushil_Kumar_(wrestler), won 2012 olympic medal for wrestling and is from a vegetarian caste

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yogeshwar_Dutt , won 2012 olympic medal for wrestling and is from a vegetarian caste

    All traditional Indian wrestlers are from Vegetarian castes

    --

    https://pix.sfly.com/7huwww

    this is my son, looks like his mother, from arranged marriage within Tamil Brahmin caste
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  201. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @res

    I’ve been told more than once that everything went to hell around 1970. Again, I wasn’t there.
     
    There was a bit of a perfect storm from 1965-1975:
    - Civil rights
    - The Vietnam War
    - The 60s protest culture
    - Immigration changes
    - The first oil shock
    - Watergate
    (any more?)

    ‘Stagflation’.

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  202. DBowman says:
    @KA
    Beef exporting business is owned by Hindus



    Agra, November 21: Justice Rajinder Sachar, former chief justice of Delhi high court on Friday stoked a controversy when he said that more Hindus are involved in the beef trade in the country than Muslims. As Justice Rajinder Sachar made the statement on the beef row at the three-day ‘International Conference on Radical Islam’, where many of the teachers and participants walked out of the venue.
    On the last day of ‘International Conference on Radical Islam’ held at RC Degree College in Mathura, Justice Rajinder Sachar said that among all the beef traders in India, 95% are from the Hindu community. “Almost 95% beef traders are Hindus. Still, a man was lynched in Dadri because he ate beef. This is the death of mankind and humanity. Eating habits have nothing to do with religion. Even I can eat beef,” said Justice Sachar, who headed the committee that recommended quota for Muslims in 2006.
    Without taking the name of BJP’s Sardhana MLA Sangeet Som, who was recently in the news over allegations about owning a beef trading company, Justice Sachar said, “MPs and MLAs, too, own beef companies. Then why is only the common man being targeted by right-wing groups?”  http://www.india.com/news/india/hindu-beef-traders-why-all-the-fuss-over-justice-rajinder-sachars-remark-723206/

    So if the Hindoo nationalist government cracks down on beef all these Hindoos who own the business should fall in line according to their tribal/religious loyalties. Sounds like it will be easier than thought.

    Read More
    • Replies: @KA
    Crackdown is going to be temporary

    Idea is to rally voters - Hindu voters

    That mosque construction has fizzled out . No
    Longer driving people to madness

    There was Jihad love
    Now it is Cow . Killing cow earns death penalty
    Killing human 2 years sentence .

    Now may be China thing will substitute rest of the rallying cries .


    Here is a list -

    *All kabir* the largest beef export company in India
    Owner is Satish Sabarwal

    *Arabian Exporter* the 2nd largest beef export company in India.
    Owner is Sunil Kapoor

    *M K R Exporter* the 3rd largest beef export company in India.
    Owner is Madan Ebot

    *All Noor* exports beef to 35 foreign countries from India
    Owner is Sunil Sud

    Top 10 largest beef export companies in India are owned by Hindu .

    *India* is the largest beef export country in 2015 and 2016 in the world.
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  203. @nebulafox
    You'd be surprised. India, like China, has been going through an urbanization period over the past couple of decades that, in terms of scale, has had few counterparts in history. The Indian economy continues to boom and the Indian middle class continues to grow, to the point where you have far too many qualified applicants for the IITs and sundry to take. I'm no Fukuyamian, but it is rather inevitable that things like caste are increasingly irrelevant for this demographic.

    I'd say there are plenty of places in the world far more "reactionary" than contemporary India. Just look at the other places that made up old British India, for starters: Pakistan, Bangladesh, and Burma. India, however messy and corrupt it is, sans the Emergency has had a tradition of democracy. And ever since they ditched the License Raj... (one only wonders how far India would get if the government and bureaucracy were an aid to development as opposed to an obstacle, as was the case for the Asian Tigers and China.)

    Probably true.

    One can find plenty of writing including from young, outward-looking Indians, condemning all manner of structural restrictions in their society. Some just about corruption or outdated administrative habits, but some about social and caste based legacies.

    Certainly they remain a feature. But we outside can make too much of them.

    Bonus points for using the term Fukuyamian and denying being one.

    Sometimes I’d like to set up an Antifukuyamian Society. Cadet members think he’s wrong. Inner members think he’s wrong and are glad of it.

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  204. Is this a criticism of India? Or is it a suggestion that the West should adopt a caste system?

    I suspect that maybe the point of the article is to get wayward Indians in touch with their conservative nature. Or perhaps the point is to indicate to European Americans that Indian Americans might be cool.

    If you look at the data (crime, welfare, illegitimacy, etc.) the real enemy is Africans. In all likelyhood the Immigration Reform Act of 1965 was implemented to keep Africans from swamping out the European population of America. Let’s face it without all that Latin American and Asian immigration America would be at least 50% African by now (and good luck recovering from or surviving that).

    There should be a line drawn in the sand somewhere though and I personally draw it on the Indo-European side of Greater Arabia.

    As far as culture from outside the US I say that immigrants should assimilate (mostly, I do like the variety of restaurants). And as far as heritage from outside the US I say immigrants should INTEGRATE. Anything less in divisive and un-American.

    And that’s my two cents from a half Indian, quarter Polish American, and quarter German American dude.

    Read More
    • Replies: @BB753
    "Let’s face it without all that Latin American and Asian immigration America would be at least 50% African by now"



    On the contrary, without affirmative action and free food and rent, there'd be comparatively fewer Blacks in America, assuming a healthy birth rate in Whites.
    It's immigration that's depressed white birth rates, as natives have to compete for jobs and living space.
    , @BB753
    "There should be a line drawn in the sand somewhere though and I personally draw it on the Indo-European side of Greater Arabia."

    Huh? Do you mean India? How self-serving!
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  205. @epochehusserl
    India and China were appearing to have a border skirmish. What do you think about this?

    China is majorly humiliating itself with its over the top rhetoric about the size of its genitals for the past 60+ days over what it claims is an “Indian invasion”. China is a much more powerful country than India, but I hear at the border area in question, India has an advantage. Over the entire India-China border, it is a no-win situation for both because the border also happens to be the World’s highest mountain range. India on the other hand has been uncharacteristically quiet, mature but firm in its response so far.
    So, bottom line, China can continue to scream like a pipsqueak power at a mature sounding India and continue to lose face, or attack and loose/draw a limited war or go nuclear over a piece of uninhabited barren rock, while US-Japan-Korea-Australia-Taiwan-Vietnam-Phillipines-Indonesia breathes down China’s front door – the Indo-Pacific sea sometimes reffered to as the South China Sea area.
    Chine is in some deep dodo there.

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  206. KA says:
    @DBowman
    So if the Hindoo nationalist government cracks down on beef all these Hindoos who own the business should fall in line according to their tribal/religious loyalties. Sounds like it will be easier than thought.

    Crackdown is going to be temporary

    Idea is to rally voters – Hindu voters

    That mosque construction has fizzled out . No
    Longer driving people to madness

    There was Jihad love
    Now it is Cow . Killing cow earns death penalty
    Killing human 2 years sentence .

    Now may be China thing will substitute rest of the rallying cries .

    Here is a list -

    *All kabir* the largest beef export company in India
    Owner is Satish Sabarwal

    *Arabian Exporter* the 2nd largest beef export company in India.
    Owner is Sunil Kapoor

    *M K R Exporter* the 3rd largest beef export company in India.
    Owner is Madan Ebot

    *All Noor* exports beef to 35 foreign countries from India
    Owner is Sunil Sud

    Top 10 largest beef export companies in India are owned by Hindu .

    *India* is the largest beef export country in 2015 and 2016 in the world.

    Read More
    • Replies: @DBowman
    You are repeating and contradicting yourself. If there is a death penalty for killing the cow, how is the crackdown "temporary"? Does the death penalty have a limited time frame? As I said, since they are all Hindoos, they will surely fall in line, just as they conspire here in the west. And all of that beef is fake water buffalo beef and dairy cows past their milk giving age. The kind of beef that is barely acceptable even at MacDonald's.
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  207. @Anon
    China was taken over by leftist commies... but Chinese are industrious and got into capitalism. So, communists became capitalists. Communist in ideology, capitalist in wealth and power.

    Likewise, many Jews began on the Left. But they are smart and industrious and succeeded in business. So, Jewish Leftists became super-capitalists. Leftist in attitude, capitalist and elitist in reality.

    India? I supposed India gained independence as a 'socialist' nation. But the government power was very limited and most of the society was hardly transformed. Looks like a nation of gypsies.

    Which is where the gyppos originated…

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    • Replies: @IndoEuropeanDude
    Are the Roma Indian? I'm not so sure.

    Let's not forget that it was India that sent them packing to begin with.

    I suspect that the Roma if not originally are now more Arab than anything else. (Just a guess.)
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  208. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @Daniel Chieh
    Nothing new under the sun. Probably won't amount to anything, perhaps it'll be good for Hindi nationalists to have a cause to rally too.

    Probably won’t amount to anything, perhaps it’ll be good for Hindi nationalists to have a cause to rally too.

    That would be Hindu nationalists.

    Hindu=a person belonging to or adjective pertaining to the Hindu religion.

    Hindi= A language spoken by a third of all Indians.

    Nothing causes foreign commentators on India to lose authority faster than this particular solecism.

    Unless it is misspelling Gandhi as Ghandi.

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  209. @Thomm
    Gandhi seemed to mention 120,000 British officers in 1920. Kipling was before that, but perhaps a similar number.

    Joe Strummer’s dad was born in Lucknow.

    Orwell, Thackeray, and Kipling were born in India. That might be a better Top 3 Writers than, say, Australia has.

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    • Replies: @Thomm
    Steve,

    Among authors, you can add Arthur C. Clarke, who spent the last 50 years of his life in Sri Lanka.

    Even today, people don't realize how many British celebrities are half-Indian or quarter-Indian. They hid this greatly as they rose up at a time when they thought this would harm their careers.

    Half Indian :
    Ben Kingsley, Englebert Humperdinck, Cliff Richard, Merle Oberon

    Quarter Indian :
    Nicolette Sheridan, Boris Karloff, Sebastian Coe, Vivian Leigh

    Princess Diana was 3% Indian (look it up), which means the Royal Line now has 1.5% Indian in it.

    Freddie Mercury : Parsee Indian. His last name was 'Bulsara', after a town in India.

    Overall, Anglo-Indians number 1-2 million, and I bet a large portion of the British population has 1-4% Indian ancestry, simply due to the tens of thousands who moved to Britian in the 17th and 18th centuries.
    , @IndoEuropeanDude
    Are you/were you a fan of The Clash?

    Gotta say they were one of my favorite bands, if not my absolute favorite band, growing up.
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  210. Thomm says:
    @Steve Sailer
    Joe Strummer's dad was born in Lucknow.

    Orwell, Thackeray, and Kipling were born in India. That might be a better Top 3 Writers than, say, Australia has.

    Steve,

    Among authors, you can add Arthur C. Clarke, who spent the last 50 years of his life in Sri Lanka.

    Even today, people don’t realize how many British celebrities are half-Indian or quarter-Indian. They hid this greatly as they rose up at a time when they thought this would harm their careers.

    Half Indian :
    Ben Kingsley, Englebert Humperdinck, Cliff Richard, Merle Oberon

    Quarter Indian :
    Nicolette Sheridan, Boris Karloff, Sebastian Coe, Vivian Leigh

    Princess Diana was 3% Indian (look it up), which means the Royal Line now has 1.5% Indian in it.

    Freddie Mercury : Parsee Indian. His last name was ‘Bulsara’, after a town in India.

    Overall, Anglo-Indians number 1-2 million, and I bet a large portion of the British population has 1-4% Indian ancestry, simply due to the tens of thousands who moved to Britian in the 17th and 18th centuries.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Unfortunately, Arthur C. Clarke - who seemed such a nice man - was posthumously accused of 'pedophilic activities' with Sri Lankan boys.
    , @BB753
    Sebastian Coe also hid his Jewish background. Yes, he's an Ashkenazi Cohen.

    " I bet a large portion of the British population has 1-4% Indian ancestry, simply due to the tens of thousands who moved to Britian in the 17th and 18th centuries"

    Genetic tests do not prove your assertion.
    , @rec1man
    Some part-white, part-Indian models

    Anya Lahiri - http://www.hcelebs.net/celebs/celebs22/anya-lahiri-1.jpg

    Katrina Kaif - https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f7/Katrina_Kaif_at_an_event_for_Nakshatra.jpg/220px-Katrina_Kaif_at_an_event_for_Nakshatra.jpg

    Diya Mirza - http://media.glamsham.com/download/hd-images/celebrity/Actress/d/dia-mirza/2016/23-dia-mirza-hd-picture.jpg

    Rhona Mitra - https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/20/04/3c/20043cf82ce45d9423d597da2b672df0.jpg

    --

    100% upper caste Indian

    Sandeepa Dhar -

    https://i1.wp.com/www.mazale.in/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/Sandeepa-Dhar-24.jpg?resize=435%2C653

    Urvashi Rautela - https://www.celebritysizes.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/Urvashi-Rautela-1.jpg

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  211. @Steve Sailer
    Joe Strummer's dad was born in Lucknow.

    Orwell, Thackeray, and Kipling were born in India. That might be a better Top 3 Writers than, say, Australia has.

    Are you/were you a fan of The Clash?

    Gotta say they were one of my favorite bands, if not my absolute favorite band, growing up.

    Read More
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  212. @SteveRogers42
    Which is where the gyppos originated...

    Are the Roma Indian? I’m not so sure.

    Let’s not forget that it was India that sent them packing to begin with.

    I suspect that the Roma if not originally are now more Arab than anything else. (Just a guess.)

    Read More
    • Replies: @BB753
    Wrong guess. Roma are still majority Indian genetically.
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  213. Hey you obviously Muslim dude, sorry to break it you, yes Muslims are barbarians compared to all other major civilizations and cultures. I came to the US, because I liked the US as a child and immigrated on my own, unlike your kind of scum who come over as marriage scammers, fake refugees and breed crime, welfare dependency and nowadays terrorism and dysfunction the moment you set foot on a any foreign shore. You Muslims are the most despised group on the Planet. Yes you are the scrounge of God’s green earth.

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  214. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @Thomm
    Steve,

    Among authors, you can add Arthur C. Clarke, who spent the last 50 years of his life in Sri Lanka.

    Even today, people don't realize how many British celebrities are half-Indian or quarter-Indian. They hid this greatly as they rose up at a time when they thought this would harm their careers.

    Half Indian :
    Ben Kingsley, Englebert Humperdinck, Cliff Richard, Merle Oberon

    Quarter Indian :
    Nicolette Sheridan, Boris Karloff, Sebastian Coe, Vivian Leigh

    Princess Diana was 3% Indian (look it up), which means the Royal Line now has 1.5% Indian in it.

    Freddie Mercury : Parsee Indian. His last name was 'Bulsara', after a town in India.

    Overall, Anglo-Indians number 1-2 million, and I bet a large portion of the British population has 1-4% Indian ancestry, simply due to the tens of thousands who moved to Britian in the 17th and 18th centuries.

    Unfortunately, Arthur C. Clarke – who seemed such a nice man – was posthumously accused of ‘pedophilic activities’ with Sri Lankan boys.

    Read More
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  215. BB753 says:
    @IndoEuropeanDude
    Is this a criticism of India? Or is it a suggestion that the West should adopt a caste system?

    I suspect that maybe the point of the article is to get wayward Indians in touch with their conservative nature. Or perhaps the point is to indicate to European Americans that Indian Americans might be cool.

    If you look at the data (crime, welfare, illegitimacy, etc.) the real enemy is Africans. In all likelyhood the Immigration Reform Act of 1965 was implemented to keep Africans from swamping out the European population of America. Let's face it without all that Latin American and Asian immigration America would be at least 50% African by now (and good luck recovering from or surviving that).

    There should be a line drawn in the sand somewhere though and I personally draw it on the Indo-European side of Greater Arabia.

    As far as culture from outside the US I say that immigrants should assimilate (mostly, I do like the variety of restaurants). And as far as heritage from outside the US I say immigrants should INTEGRATE. Anything less in divisive and un-American.

    And that's my two cents from a half Indian, quarter Polish American, and quarter German American dude.

    “Let’s face it without all that Latin American and Asian immigration America would be at least 50% African by now”

    On the contrary, without affirmative action and free food and rent, there’d be comparatively fewer Blacks in America, assuming a healthy birth rate in Whites.
    It’s immigration that’s depressed white birth rates, as natives have to compete for jobs and living space.

    Read More
    • Replies: @IndoEuropeanDude
    You're just making that stuff up.

    Blacks were rapidly outpacing the White population of the US prior to 1965.

    It has taken all the mass immigration since then just to keep blacks at a relatively constant 12 or so percent.
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  216. BB753 says:
    @IndoEuropeanDude
    Is this a criticism of India? Or is it a suggestion that the West should adopt a caste system?

    I suspect that maybe the point of the article is to get wayward Indians in touch with their conservative nature. Or perhaps the point is to indicate to European Americans that Indian Americans might be cool.

    If you look at the data (crime, welfare, illegitimacy, etc.) the real enemy is Africans. In all likelyhood the Immigration Reform Act of 1965 was implemented to keep Africans from swamping out the European population of America. Let's face it without all that Latin American and Asian immigration America would be at least 50% African by now (and good luck recovering from or surviving that).

    There should be a line drawn in the sand somewhere though and I personally draw it on the Indo-European side of Greater Arabia.

    As far as culture from outside the US I say that immigrants should assimilate (mostly, I do like the variety of restaurants). And as far as heritage from outside the US I say immigrants should INTEGRATE. Anything less in divisive and un-American.

    And that's my two cents from a half Indian, quarter Polish American, and quarter German American dude.

    “There should be a line drawn in the sand somewhere though and I personally draw it on the Indo-European side of Greater Arabia.”

    Huh? Do you mean India? How self-serving!

    Read More
    • Replies: @IndoEuropeanDude
    How is that particularly self serving?

    Just because I use the Texas definition* of White which is all races except negroes?

    Actually, I suppose I use a modified Texas definition* of White in that I generally would exclude Arabs.

    My definition falls well inline with the Trump Administrations immigration policies.

    PS - My kids are 1/4 Indian, 3/4 northern European. Where do y'all draw the line?

    * "The term white includes all races except negroes."
    ~ Texas Almanac and State Industrial Guide, 1904
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  217. BB753 says:
    @Thomm
    Steve,

    Among authors, you can add Arthur C. Clarke, who spent the last 50 years of his life in Sri Lanka.

    Even today, people don't realize how many British celebrities are half-Indian or quarter-Indian. They hid this greatly as they rose up at a time when they thought this would harm their careers.

    Half Indian :
    Ben Kingsley, Englebert Humperdinck, Cliff Richard, Merle Oberon

    Quarter Indian :
    Nicolette Sheridan, Boris Karloff, Sebastian Coe, Vivian Leigh

    Princess Diana was 3% Indian (look it up), which means the Royal Line now has 1.5% Indian in it.

    Freddie Mercury : Parsee Indian. His last name was 'Bulsara', after a town in India.

    Overall, Anglo-Indians number 1-2 million, and I bet a large portion of the British population has 1-4% Indian ancestry, simply due to the tens of thousands who moved to Britian in the 17th and 18th centuries.

    Sebastian Coe also hid his Jewish background. Yes, he’s an Ashkenazi Cohen.

    ” I bet a large portion of the British population has 1-4% Indian ancestry, simply due to the tens of thousands who moved to Britian in the 17th and 18th centuries”

    Genetic tests do not prove your assertion.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Thomm

    Genetic tests do not prove your assertion.
     
    Quite the contrary, they do. Princess Diana was 3% Indian (look it up).
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  218. BB753 says:
    @IndoEuropeanDude
    Are the Roma Indian? I'm not so sure.

    Let's not forget that it was India that sent them packing to begin with.

    I suspect that the Roma if not originally are now more Arab than anything else. (Just a guess.)

    Wrong guess. Roma are still majority Indian genetically.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Thomm
    I don't think that is true. Many lo0k very white, and would not stand out in Romania, Greece, Spain, Turkey, etc.
    , @IndoEuropeanDude
    Even if that is true which I have reason to doubt India still sent the packing.
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  219. rec1man says:
    @Thomm
    BTW, here is the economic performance of immigrant groups :

    https://cdn.static-economist.com/sites/default/files/20150523_SRC174.png

    Indians in the US are in a class by themselves. That is how I became a fan of them.

    And yes, while the immigrant Indians are above the average IQ in India, they are not THAT much higher, as the wealthy in India are not the ones leaving. The ones leaving India for the US are specifically 'educated but poor'.

    Steve - this warrants further study. You know that this is not merely 'high caste' Indians, as many Indians in the US are quite dark-skinned. Plus, Sri Lanka is much more prosperous than Pakistan or Afghanistan, so Caucasian-ness is not the only factor in success.

    An underachieving white trashionalist like Peterike or Beckow would be the bottom 1% of the Indian-American community.

    The chart you provided is from Devesh Kapur book, The Other 1% ;

    It has another chart showing median income of various linguistic groups of Indians

    The most Caucasoid are the Punjabi with $80k and the least Caucasoid are the Telugu ( Dravidians ) with $140k

    The key to Indian success is family structure, – no dating – no premarital sex – no illegitimate children – no divorce – no drugs – no drinking – in short , tight self-control

    and of course arranged marriages for stability

    Read More
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  220. rec1man says:
    @EdgeSlider
    Dude, I cannot see much in the picture.
    Another problem, most Indian women (and men) don't take care of themselves by way of working out, stylish clothes, hairstyles, makeup etc. And the ridiculous vegetarian diet does'nt help with body tone, skin/hair etc. Low testosterone and the feminine culture is another problem with men. The pathetic Indian sports scene tells it all for you.

    Bramins are pretty smart, perhaps as smart as the Askenazis but they have 2 problems
    1. Low T due to vegetarianism
    2. The culture is awfully feminie culture (this is why a lot of white chicks dig it)
    3. They and their culture and mindset is conservative, since they are the consummate insiders of the society they are elites of.
    The result of the above three handicaps: The bramins do not take much intellectual risks or engage in free-thinking and creative thinking compared to other high IQ elites, such as the Askanazis and smart goyims.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sakshi_Malik , she won the 2016 medal for wrestling and is from a vegetarian caste

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sushil_Kumar_(wrestler), won 2012 olympic medal for wrestling and is from a vegetarian caste

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yogeshwar_Dutt , won 2012 olympic medal for wrestling and is from a vegetarian caste

    All traditional Indian wrestlers are from Vegetarian castes

    https://pix.sfly.com/7huwww

    this is my son, looks like his mother, from arranged marriage within Tamil Brahmin caste

    Read More
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  221. rec1man says:
    @Thomm
    Steve,

    Among authors, you can add Arthur C. Clarke, who spent the last 50 years of his life in Sri Lanka.

    Even today, people don't realize how many British celebrities are half-Indian or quarter-Indian. They hid this greatly as they rose up at a time when they thought this would harm their careers.

    Half Indian :
    Ben Kingsley, Englebert Humperdinck, Cliff Richard, Merle Oberon

    Quarter Indian :
    Nicolette Sheridan, Boris Karloff, Sebastian Coe, Vivian Leigh

    Princess Diana was 3% Indian (look it up), which means the Royal Line now has 1.5% Indian in it.

    Freddie Mercury : Parsee Indian. His last name was 'Bulsara', after a town in India.

    Overall, Anglo-Indians number 1-2 million, and I bet a large portion of the British population has 1-4% Indian ancestry, simply due to the tens of thousands who moved to Britian in the 17th and 18th centuries.

    Some part-white, part-Indian models

    Anya Lahiri -
    Katrina Kaif -
    Diya Mirza -
    Rhona Mitra -

    100% upper caste Indian

    Sandeepa Dhar –

    https://i1.wp.com/www.mazale.in/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/Sandeepa-Dhar-24.jpg?resize=435%2C653

    Urvashi Rautela -

    Read More
    • Replies: @Jatt Singh
    Cuck
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  222. A cavil. I’d say “conservative,” not “reactionary.” They are not trying to go back to some better past age, real or imaginary, but just to stay the same.

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  223. DBowman says:
    @KA
    Crackdown is going to be temporary

    Idea is to rally voters - Hindu voters

    That mosque construction has fizzled out . No
    Longer driving people to madness

    There was Jihad love
    Now it is Cow . Killing cow earns death penalty
    Killing human 2 years sentence .

    Now may be China thing will substitute rest of the rallying cries .


    Here is a list -

    *All kabir* the largest beef export company in India
    Owner is Satish Sabarwal

    *Arabian Exporter* the 2nd largest beef export company in India.
    Owner is Sunil Kapoor

    *M K R Exporter* the 3rd largest beef export company in India.
    Owner is Madan Ebot

    *All Noor* exports beef to 35 foreign countries from India
    Owner is Sunil Sud

    Top 10 largest beef export companies in India are owned by Hindu .

    *India* is the largest beef export country in 2015 and 2016 in the world.

    You are repeating and contradicting yourself. If there is a death penalty for killing the cow, how is the crackdown “temporary”? Does the death penalty have a limited time frame? As I said, since they are all Hindoos, they will surely fall in line, just as they conspire here in the west. And all of that beef is fake water buffalo beef and dairy cows past their milk giving age. The kind of beef that is barely acceptable even at MacDonald’s.

    Read More
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  224. Thomm says:
    @BB753
    Wrong guess. Roma are still majority Indian genetically.

    I don’t think that is true. Many lo0k very white, and would not stand out in Romania, Greece, Spain, Turkey, etc.

    Read More
    • Replies: @BB753
    Majority, not totally, which explains the introgression of European genes and phenotypes. It also depends on the specific Gypsy population.
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  225. Thomm says:
    @BB753
    Sebastian Coe also hid his Jewish background. Yes, he's an Ashkenazi Cohen.

    " I bet a large portion of the British population has 1-4% Indian ancestry, simply due to the tens of thousands who moved to Britian in the 17th and 18th centuries"

    Genetic tests do not prove your assertion.

    Genetic tests do not prove your assertion.

    Quite the contrary, they do. Princess Diana was 3% Indian (look it up).

    Read More
    • Replies: @BB753
    That's one individual. It's not relevant. As a whole, Brits had virtually 0% Indian in them before 1950.
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  226. BB753 says:
    @Thomm

    Genetic tests do not prove your assertion.
     
    Quite the contrary, they do. Princess Diana was 3% Indian (look it up).

    That’s one individual. It’s not relevant. As a whole, Brits had virtually 0% Indian in them before 1950.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Thomm
    Not true, as genetic analysis has proven.

    Tens of thousands from each country went to the other in the 17th and 18th centuries. There were 70,000 Indians in London in 1800, and most intermarried with Brits. This is well-documented.
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  227. BB753 says:
    @Thomm
    I don't think that is true. Many lo0k very white, and would not stand out in Romania, Greece, Spain, Turkey, etc.

    Majority, not totally, which explains the introgression of European genes and phenotypes. It also depends on the specific Gypsy population.

    Read More
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  228. Thomm says:
    @BB753
    That's one individual. It's not relevant. As a whole, Brits had virtually 0% Indian in them before 1950.

    Not true, as genetic analysis has proven.

    Tens of thousands from each country went to the other in the 17th and 18th centuries. There were 70,000 Indians in London in 1800, and most intermarried with Brits. This is well-documented.

    Read More
    • Replies: @BB753
    I'm not denying there were Indians in London, just that it doesn't show in genetic analysis as far as I know.
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  229. @BB753
    Wrong guess. Roma are still majority Indian genetically.

    Even if that is true which I have reason to doubt India still sent the packing.

    Read More
    • Replies: @BB753
    Gypsies, India's gift to the world! Thank you.. not.
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  230. @BB753
    "There should be a line drawn in the sand somewhere though and I personally draw it on the Indo-European side of Greater Arabia."

    Huh? Do you mean India? How self-serving!

    How is that particularly self serving?

    Just because I use the Texas definition* of White which is all races except negroes?

    Actually, I suppose I use a modified Texas definition* of White in that I generally would exclude Arabs.

    My definition falls well inline with the Trump Administrations immigration policies.

    PS – My kids are 1/4 Indian, 3/4 northern European. Where do y’all draw the line?

    * “The term white includes all races except negroes.”
    ~ Texas Almanac and State Industrial Guide, 1904

    Read More
    • Replies: @BB753
    Ok, what's the Indo-European side of Greater Arabia?
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  231. Indians contrary to popular belief are mainly an admixture spectrum ranging from caucasiod to mongoloid. Negroid genes don’t enter the picture.

    See:

    Read More
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  232. BB753 says:
    @Thomm
    Not true, as genetic analysis has proven.

    Tens of thousands from each country went to the other in the 17th and 18th centuries. There were 70,000 Indians in London in 1800, and most intermarried with Brits. This is well-documented.

    I’m not denying there were Indians in London, just that it doesn’t show in genetic analysis as far as I know.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Thomm
    Tons of 'white' British people today indicate over 10% South Asian ancestry, with 1-4% being almost universal.

    It is pretty common, as it was in Princess Diana. It is not surprising at all given the 350 years of direct contact.

    Razib Khan can confirm this.
    , @Thomm
    Tons of 'white' British people today indicate over 10% South Asian ancestry, with 1-4% being almost universal.

    It is pretty common, as it was in Princess Diana. It is not surprising at all given the 350 years of direct contact.

    Razib Khan can confirm this.
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  233. BB753 says:
    @IndoEuropeanDude
    How is that particularly self serving?

    Just because I use the Texas definition* of White which is all races except negroes?

    Actually, I suppose I use a modified Texas definition* of White in that I generally would exclude Arabs.

    My definition falls well inline with the Trump Administrations immigration policies.

    PS - My kids are 1/4 Indian, 3/4 northern European. Where do y'all draw the line?

    * "The term white includes all races except negroes."
    ~ Texas Almanac and State Industrial Guide, 1904

    Ok, what’s the Indo-European side of Greater Arabia?

    Read More
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  234. BB753 says:
    @IndoEuropeanDude
    Even if that is true which I have reason to doubt India still sent the packing.

    Gypsies, India’s gift to the world! Thank you.. not.

    Read More
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  235. Thomm says:
    @BB753
    I'm not denying there were Indians in London, just that it doesn't show in genetic analysis as far as I know.

    Tons of ‘white’ British people today indicate over 10% South Asian ancestry, with 1-4% being almost universal.

    It is pretty common, as it was in Princess Diana. It is not surprising at all given the 350 years of direct contact.

    Razib Khan can confirm this.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Links?
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  236. Thomm says:
    @BB753
    I'm not denying there were Indians in London, just that it doesn't show in genetic analysis as far as I know.

    Tons of ‘white’ British people today indicate over 10% South Asian ancestry, with 1-4% being almost universal.

    It is pretty common, as it was in Princess Diana. It is not surprising at all given the 350 years of direct contact.

    Razib Khan can confirm this.

    Read More
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  237. @Thomm
    Tons of 'white' British people today indicate over 10% South Asian ancestry, with 1-4% being almost universal.

    It is pretty common, as it was in Princess Diana. It is not surprising at all given the 350 years of direct contact.

    Razib Khan can confirm this.

    Links?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Thomm
    Princess Diana being 3% Indian is here :
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2342005/Prince-William-actually-Indian--distant-cousin-knew-family-secret-along.html

    As far as the white British public, tons and tons of DNA tests of them consistently show similar results as Diana.
    Add to that the fact that so many British Celebrities are half or quarter Indian (see comment 211), which would corroborate a data progression that most English people fall in the 1-4% range.
    Add to that the fact that each country had 50K to 200K of the other living there across a period of three centuries.

    All that points to this unsurprising conclusion. Just like the fact that white Americans on average tend to be 98% white and 2% Native American.

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  238. @BB753
    "Let’s face it without all that Latin American and Asian immigration America would be at least 50% African by now"



    On the contrary, without affirmative action and free food and rent, there'd be comparatively fewer Blacks in America, assuming a healthy birth rate in Whites.
    It's immigration that's depressed white birth rates, as natives have to compete for jobs and living space.

    You’re just making that stuff up.

    Blacks were rapidly outpacing the White population of the US prior to 1965.

    It has taken all the mass immigration since then just to keep blacks at a relatively constant 12 or so percent.

    Read More
    • Replies: @BB753
    Well, I'll look up the respective birth rates in 1965.
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  239. I am half Indian and half European.

    Am I unwelcome here?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Thomm
    No. You are fully welcome here.

    But many Nationalist-Leftists (aka 'white nationalists') will tell you that you are unwelcome. Pay them no heed, as other white people don't listen to them (as you know).
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  240. BB753 says:
    @IndoEuropeanDude
    You're just making that stuff up.

    Blacks were rapidly outpacing the White population of the US prior to 1965.

    It has taken all the mass immigration since then just to keep blacks at a relatively constant 12 or so percent.

    Well, I’ll look up the respective birth rates in 1965.

    Read More
    • Replies: @IndoEuropeanDude
    You can also look up the percentage of blacks as part of the total US population going back to the Civil War and before.
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  241. Thomm says:
    @IndoEuropeanDude
    I am half Indian and half European.

    Am I unwelcome here?

    No. You are fully welcome here.

    But many Nationalist-Leftists (aka ‘white nationalists’) will tell you that you are unwelcome. Pay them no heed, as other white people don’t listen to them (as you know).

    Read More
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  242. Thomm says:
    @Steve Sailer
    Links?

    Princess Diana being 3% Indian is here :

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2342005/Prince-William-actually-Indian–distant-cousin-knew-family-secret-along.html

    As far as the white British public, tons and tons of DNA tests of them consistently show similar results as Diana.
    Add to that the fact that so many British Celebrities are half or quarter Indian (see comment 211), which would corroborate a data progression that most English people fall in the 1-4% range.
    Add to that the fact that each country had 50K to 200K of the other living there across a period of three centuries.

    All that points to this unsurprising conclusion. Just like the fact that white Americans on average tend to be 98% white and 2% Native American.

    Read More
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  243. @BB753
    Well, I'll look up the respective birth rates in 1965.

    You can also look up the percentage of blacks as part of the total US population going back to the Civil War and before.

    Read More
    • Replies: @BB753
    I couldn't find any stats broken down by race for birth rates. Blacks were 11% of the population in 1965.
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  244. @rec1man
    Some part-white, part-Indian models

    Anya Lahiri - http://www.hcelebs.net/celebs/celebs22/anya-lahiri-1.jpg

    Katrina Kaif - https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f7/Katrina_Kaif_at_an_event_for_Nakshatra.jpg/220px-Katrina_Kaif_at_an_event_for_Nakshatra.jpg

    Diya Mirza - http://media.glamsham.com/download/hd-images/celebrity/Actress/d/dia-mirza/2016/23-dia-mirza-hd-picture.jpg

    Rhona Mitra - https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/20/04/3c/20043cf82ce45d9423d597da2b672df0.jpg

    --

    100% upper caste Indian

    Sandeepa Dhar -

    https://i1.wp.com/www.mazale.in/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/Sandeepa-Dhar-24.jpg?resize=435%2C653

    Urvashi Rautela - https://www.celebritysizes.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/Urvashi-Rautela-1.jpg

    Cuck

    Read More
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  245. BB753 says:
    @IndoEuropeanDude
    You can also look up the percentage of blacks as part of the total US population going back to the Civil War and before.

    I couldn’t find any stats broken down by race for birth rates. Blacks were 11% of the population in 1965.

    Read More
    • Replies: @IndoEuropeanDude
    The data can be found here.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_racial_and_ethnic_demographics_of_the_United_States
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  246. @Anon
    China was taken over by leftist commies... but Chinese are industrious and got into capitalism. So, communists became capitalists. Communist in ideology, capitalist in wealth and power.

    Likewise, many Jews began on the Left. But they are smart and industrious and succeeded in business. So, Jewish Leftists became super-capitalists. Leftist in attitude, capitalist and elitist in reality.

    India? I supposed India gained independence as a 'socialist' nation. But the government power was very limited and most of the society was hardly transformed. Looks like a nation of gypsies.

    India is a vast country with a population in a billion plus and your pea-brain would not be able to decipher it…

    Arabs, Jews, Armenians, Persians, Chinese, Turks and yes, even tbe mighty whites have been coming to India for eons to participate in the loot (real gold, not con-the-jackasses, Facebook money) and will come iagain in the future…

    Why tell you all the above? Because you’re yearning for freedom from your oppressors and want to live your life as an intelligent WN. But you’re thinking like a rodent, while your head is lodged in the derrière of Steve Sailer’s ignoramus musings, which may not help gain liberty. Dislike what you will but do so with scholarship and not with guesses and don’t let the pied piper lead you into the swamp of self-destruction!

    Read More
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  247. @BB753
    I couldn't find any stats broken down by race for birth rates. Blacks were 11% of the population in 1965.
    Read More
    • Replies: @IndoEuropeanDude
    That's the raw data.

    I'll do the calculation tomorrow after I have gotten some sleep.
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  248. @IndoEuropeanDude
    The data can be found here.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_racial_and_ethnic_demographics_of_the_United_States

    That’s the raw data.

    I’ll do the calculation tomorrow after I have gotten some sleep.

    Read More
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