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The Curley Effect Versus the Kennedy Effect
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From the Journal of Law, Economics, & Organization in 2005:

The Curley Effect: The Economics of Shaping theElectorate

Edward L. Glaeser
Harvard University and NBER
Andrei Shleifer
Harvard University and NBER

James Michael Curley, a four-time mayor of Boston, used wasteful redistribution to his poor Irish constituents and incendiary rhetoric to encourage richer citizens to emigrate from Boston, thereby shaping the electorate in his favor. As a consequence, Boston stagnated, but Curley kept winning elections. We present a model of using redistributive politics to shape the electorate, and show that this model yields a number of predictions opposite from the more standard frameworks of political competition, yet consistent with empirical evidence.

1. Introduction
Early in World War I, a wounded British officer arrived in Boston to recruit citizens of the then-neutral United States to fight in the British army. He politely asked the by then legendary Irish mayor of Boston, James Michael Curley, for permission. Curley replied, ‘‘Go ahead Colonel. Take every damn one of them.’’ This statement captures Curley’s lifelong hostility to the AngloSaxons of Boston, whom he described as ‘‘a strange and stupid race,’’ and his clear wish that they just leave. Throughout his four terms, using a combination of aggressive redistribution and incendiary rhetoric, Curley tried to transformBoston from an integrated city of poor Irish and rich protestants into a Gaelic
city on American shores.

Curley’s motivation is clear. In his six mayoral races between 1913 and 1951, he represented the poorest and most ethnically distinct of Boston’s Irish. The city’s Brahmins despised him because of his policies, his corruption, and his rhetoric, and always worked to block his victory. Curley’s expected share of Boston’s vote was, to a first approximation, strictly increasing in the share of poor Irish among the Bostonians. Unsurprisingly, he tried to turn Boston into a city that would elect him.

We call this strategy—increasing the relative size of one’s political base through distortionary, wealth-reducing policies—the Curley effect. But it is hardly unique to Curley. Other American mayors, but also politicians around the world, have pursued policies that encouraged emigration of their political enemies, raising poverty but gaining political advantage. In his 24 years as mayor, Detroit’s Coleman Young drove white residents and businesses out of the city. ‘‘Under Young, Detroit has become not merely an American city that happens to have a black majority, but a black metropolis, the first major Third World city in the United States. The trappings are all there—showcase projects, black-fisted symbols, an external enemy, and the cult of personality’’
(Chafets, 1991:177).

A complement to the concept of the Curley Effect would be the Kennedy Effect honoring Ted Kennedy’s repeated efforts to import more Irishmen to vote for Kennedys in American elections.

 
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  1. D. K. says:

    OT:

    “The Cubs win the pennant! The Cubs win the pennant! The Cubs win the pennant!”

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    • Replies: @Hubbub
    OffT: OnT" YES! Oh, Yes, yes, yes! And Yes, too!
    , @Trelane
    Yea Cubs!

    There's gotta be a phone or a gas station around here somewhere

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=iYTdILs7-1Q#t=93
    , @Anonymous
    Kershaw blows it in the playoffs yet again....
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  2. Rob McX says:

    It leaves you thinking a politician must belong to a different species from the rest of us. He considers the demographic devastation of a country to be an acceptable price to pay for the votes that will make him king of his own dunghill for a few short years. And by now the Brahmins of Boston have no more objection to this nation-wrecking than did the Irish Democrats they so despised. In fact 85 per cent of Republicans in Congress voted for the 1965 Immigration Act.

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    • Replies: @snorlax
    TBF I'm sure Curley didn't see it as "demographic devastation." And it wasn't! The Irish are, even when poor, in the ninety-nine point lots of nines percentile for immigrant quality.
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  3. Hubbub says:

    …the first major Third World city in the United States

    Has Boston gone, or will Boston go, the way of Detroit? Or will it prove to be an exception to the rule?

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    • Replies: @SFG
    Actually, MIT and the Harvard hospitals saved their bacon and they're now a rich, educated mini-New York. (Not that you should ever make that comparison to a Bostonian. ;) )
    , @candid_observer
    There's tons more money in Boston and its suburbs than there ever was. Gentrification everywhere, impossible real estate.

    I don't know where exactly all that money is coming from, but if anything the bad neighborhoods seem to be receding everywhere.

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  4. Hubbub says:
    @D. K.
    OT:

    "The Cubs win the pennant! The Cubs win the pennant! The Cubs win the pennant!"

    OffT: OnT” YES! Oh, Yes, yes, yes! And Yes, too!

    Read More
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  5. snorlax says:
    @Rob McX
    It leaves you thinking a politician must belong to a different species from the rest of us. He considers the demographic devastation of a country to be an acceptable price to pay for the votes that will make him king of his own dunghill for a few short years. And by now the Brahmins of Boston have no more objection to this nation-wrecking than did the Irish Democrats they so despised. In fact 85 per cent of Republicans in Congress voted for the 1965 Immigration Act.

    TBF I’m sure Curley didn’t see it as “demographic devastation.” And it wasn’t! The Irish are, even when poor, in the ninety-nine point lots of nines percentile for immigrant quality.

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    • Replies: @Rob McX
    Agreed. I was thinking more of the later waves of imported voters, especially since the 1965 Act.
    , @syonredux

    TBF I’m sure Curley didn’t see it as “demographic devastation.”
     
    Would he have cared? He only wanted votes, after all.

    And it wasn’t! The Irish are, even when poor, in the ninety-nine point lots of nines percentile for immigrant quality.
     
    Well, relative to Blacks and Mestizo Hispanics, sure.
    , @AndrewR
    This is the dumbest comment I've seen on unz.com in weeks, and that's saying a lot.
    , @Jus' Sayin'...
    Left entirely out of this analysis -- this is apparently what economists routinely do when constructing their models -- is Curley's primary motivation and a large part of the reason for his success. Protestant Boston had been brutally discriminating against the Irish for generations. Previous generations of Irish politicians had tried accommodation and failed. By the time Curley came to power the Irish electorate formed a plurality and were heartily fed up with having been the political underdogs.

    Some examples: There is now a statue to Colonel Cass - who died at Malvern Hill - in the Boston Garden. Before the Civil War Cass tried to form a patriotic Irish militia to correspond with Yankee militias such as the Ancient and Honorable Artillery Company. The immediate reaction of the Great and General Court was to pass a law specifically outlawing any but the Yankee-based militias. The second generation of accommodating Irish politicians can be exemplified by Joseph P. Fallon, the first Irish Bostonian ever elected to the Boston School Committee a decade or two after the Civil War. Fallon was a highly educated man - he eventually became the first Roman Catholic judge in Massachusetts and retired to universal acclaim - but he was ultimately hounded from his first public office for suggesting that since a majority of Boston's public school students at the time were Roman Catholic it might be wise to revise some of the more overtly anti-Catholic aspects of the curriculum, e.g., references to the Pope as the Whore of Babylon.

    By the time Curley, Lomasney, "Honey Fitz" Fitzgerald and their ilk came along Boston's Irish were out for revenge. These politicians were riding a wave created for them by their anti-Irish, Yankee predecessors. I grew up during the tail end of this. My Irish-Catholic family had been involved in Boston politics for generations and loathed Curley and the new brand of Irish machine politician. But they also recognized where Curley's support ultimately came from.
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  6. Bravo, Steve. This is a hugely important but sadly neglected paper–despite having been in the public domain for 11 years.

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  7. Rob McX says:
    @snorlax
    TBF I'm sure Curley didn't see it as "demographic devastation." And it wasn't! The Irish are, even when poor, in the ninety-nine point lots of nines percentile for immigrant quality.

    Agreed. I was thinking more of the later waves of imported voters, especially since the 1965 Act.

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  8. AKAHorace says:

    A lot of the post 1965 immigrants are no too bad at all.

    The problem is the insistence that we change what attracted them here.

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  9. syonredux says:
    @snorlax
    TBF I'm sure Curley didn't see it as "demographic devastation." And it wasn't! The Irish are, even when poor, in the ninety-nine point lots of nines percentile for immigrant quality.

    TBF I’m sure Curley didn’t see it as “demographic devastation.”

    Would he have cared? He only wanted votes, after all.

    And it wasn’t! The Irish are, even when poor, in the ninety-nine point lots of nines percentile for immigrant quality.

    Well, relative to Blacks and Mestizo Hispanics, sure.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Danindc
    Huh??? May the good Lord bless you with Vietnamese, Chechen, Armenian and Serbian neighbors.
    , @snorlax

    Would he have cared? He only wanted votes, after all.
     
    I just asked him. Says he's voting for Hill.

    Well, relative to Blacks and Mestizo Hispanics, sure.
     
    Relative to most white groups, too. Over in the Old World they've managed to produce a nicer standard of living and a healthier body politic than their neighbors the WASPs, despite the latter's enormous head start. And over here the pretty strong upwards trend for Boston and New York, especially relative to other major cities, has to count for something.

    Not that it should be the operative consideration, but they're also a people who are known for their good looks and are disproportionately represented amongst movie stars.
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  10. Danindc says:
    @syonredux

    TBF I’m sure Curley didn’t see it as “demographic devastation.”
     
    Would he have cared? He only wanted votes, after all.

    And it wasn’t! The Irish are, even when poor, in the ninety-nine point lots of nines percentile for immigrant quality.
     
    Well, relative to Blacks and Mestizo Hispanics, sure.

    Huh??? May the good Lord bless you with Vietnamese, Chechen, Armenian and Serbian neighbors.

    Read More
    • Replies: @syonredux

    Huh??? May the good Lord bless you with Vietnamese, Chechen, Armenian and Serbian neighbors.
     
    Armenians whose ancestors arrived in America before 1924 make pretty good neighbors.And I've never had any problems with Vietnamese people.Dunno about Serbs.

    I've heard bad stuff about Chechens.

    We need close to zero immigration for at least 50 years.
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  11. snorlax says:
    @syonredux

    TBF I’m sure Curley didn’t see it as “demographic devastation.”
     
    Would he have cared? He only wanted votes, after all.

    And it wasn’t! The Irish are, even when poor, in the ninety-nine point lots of nines percentile for immigrant quality.
     
    Well, relative to Blacks and Mestizo Hispanics, sure.

    Would he have cared? He only wanted votes, after all.

    I just asked him. Says he’s voting for Hill.

    Well, relative to Blacks and Mestizo Hispanics, sure.

    Relative to most white groups, too. Over in the Old World they’ve managed to produce a nicer standard of living and a healthier body politic than their neighbors the WASPs, despite the latter’s enormous head start. And over here the pretty strong upwards trend for Boston and New York, especially relative to other major cities, has to count for something.

    Not that it should be the operative consideration, but they’re also a people who are known for their good looks and are disproportionately represented amongst movie stars.

    Read More
    • Replies: @syonredux

    Relative to most white groups, too. Over in the Old World they’ve managed to produce a nicer standard of living and a healthier body politic than their neighbors the WASPs, despite the latter’s enormous head start. And over here the pretty strong upwards trend for Boston and New York, especially relative to other major cities, has to count for something.

    Not that it should be the operative consideration, but they’re also a people who are known for their good looks and are disproportionately represented amongst movie stars.
     
    Read Thomas Sowell. The Irish also brought with them political corruption, mob violence, crime, etc. Not to mention drunkenness and urban poverty on a level hitherto unknown in Anglo-America. To put it bluntly, if you lived in 19th century America, you wouldn't want an Irishman for a neighbor.

    And then there's the fact that they introduced the nauseating concept of "hyphenated-Americans," making "Irish-Americans" the first step in multiculturalism....
    , @Anonymous
    Ireland's economy is actually not that great, despite the numbers, which are ginned up by EU subsidies and by its role as a major offshoring center for tax purposes. It's still significantly rural and based on tourism. It depends a lot on EU ag subsidies and being a tax haven for multinationals. Many young people still have to go abroad to places like the UK and Australia to work. Go down to any pub in any Irish town, and everyone there will have family and friends working abroad, and will have themselves done stints abroad. There's not much industry and commerce there, which actually makes it appealing for tourism, but also leaves little work for people, especially young people.
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  12. syonredux says:
    @snorlax

    Would he have cared? He only wanted votes, after all.
     
    I just asked him. Says he's voting for Hill.

    Well, relative to Blacks and Mestizo Hispanics, sure.
     
    Relative to most white groups, too. Over in the Old World they've managed to produce a nicer standard of living and a healthier body politic than their neighbors the WASPs, despite the latter's enormous head start. And over here the pretty strong upwards trend for Boston and New York, especially relative to other major cities, has to count for something.

    Not that it should be the operative consideration, but they're also a people who are known for their good looks and are disproportionately represented amongst movie stars.

    Relative to most white groups, too. Over in the Old World they’ve managed to produce a nicer standard of living and a healthier body politic than their neighbors the WASPs, despite the latter’s enormous head start. And over here the pretty strong upwards trend for Boston and New York, especially relative to other major cities, has to count for something.

    Not that it should be the operative consideration, but they’re also a people who are known for their good looks and are disproportionately represented amongst movie stars.

    Read Thomas Sowell. The Irish also brought with them political corruption, mob violence, crime, etc. Not to mention drunkenness and urban poverty on a level hitherto unknown in Anglo-America. To put it bluntly, if you lived in 19th century America, you wouldn’t want an Irishman for a neighbor.

    And then there’s the fact that they introduced the nauseating concept of “hyphenated-Americans,” making “Irish-Americans” the first step in multiculturalism….

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    • Replies: @snorlax

    To put it bluntly, if you lived in 19th century America, you wouldn’t want an Irishman for a neighbor.
     
    You won't find any disagreement from me that the WASPs should not have allowed the "great waves" of immigration. Relatively speaking, the WASPs are doing far worse than they were in the 19c.

    Jury's still out on whether they were a good thing for America — on the one hand it's the reason the "we're a nation of immigrants" line has such effectiveness, on the other hand American WASPs are literally the people who invented leftist racial ideology and were fanatics from the start.

    In any event the great-wavers assimilated fully, have been hugely net-positive economic and scientific contributors, and made the majority-minority tipping point a much higher bar to clear.


    The Irish also brought with them political corruption
     
    A bit of a pot, kettle situation. The biggest denouncers of Irish corruption were also the biggest boosters of Grant and Reconstruction. The premier anti-Irish politician of the 19c, James Blaine, was also at the top of the corruption charts.

    mob violence, crime, etc. Not to mention drunkenness and urban poverty on a level hitherto unknown in Anglo-America.
     
    This is all by 19th-century standards, which were rather higher than today's. The 19c definition of drunkenness being "consumes any alcohol at all," violence being the very occasional stabbing, etc.

    Occasionally someone will write an article pointing out that the "Wild West" actually featured very little violent crime (by today's standards), but of course by 19c standards it was wild.

    In any event Irish-Americans are nowadays amongst the top-performing white groups in terms of income, educational attainment, crime, illegitimacy etc.


    And then there’s the fact that they introduced the nauseating concept of “hyphenated-Americans,” making “Irish-Americans” the first step in multiculturalism….
     
    I believe Teddy Roosevelt was the inventor of that term. In any event, in the 19c loyalty to one's own kin was considered normal and natural.

    Americans inserting their ethnically-motivated dual loyalties into the political sphere goes at least back to Hamilton.* Roosevelt himself had similar dual loyalties — in pursuit of which he coined the term "hyphenated-Americans!"

    *Jefferson, on the other hand, inaugurated dual loyalty on the basis of ethnomasochism combined with fanatical leftism.

    , @Ed
    At the time they were considered so low even blacks didn't want to live next to them.
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  13. syonredux says:
    @Danindc
    Huh??? May the good Lord bless you with Vietnamese, Chechen, Armenian and Serbian neighbors.

    Huh??? May the good Lord bless you with Vietnamese, Chechen, Armenian and Serbian neighbors.

    Armenians whose ancestors arrived in America before 1924 make pretty good neighbors.And I’ve never had any problems with Vietnamese people.Dunno about Serbs.

    I’ve heard bad stuff about Chechens.

    We need close to zero immigration for at least 50 years.

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    • Replies: @ATX Hipster

    I’ve heard bad stuff about Chechens.
     
    Yeah, I've heard bad stuff about Chechens, too.
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  14. SFG says:
    @Hubbub

    ...the first major Third World city in the United States
     
    Has Boston gone, or will Boston go, the way of Detroit? Or will it prove to be an exception to the rule?

    Actually, MIT and the Harvard hospitals saved their bacon and they’re now a rich, educated mini-New York. (Not that you should ever make that comparison to a Bostonian. ;) )

    Read More
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  15. Well it’s a good thing we learned our lesson!

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  16. anon says: • Disclaimer

    A complement to the concept of the Curley Effect would be the Kennedy Effect honoring Ted Kennedy’s repeated efforts to import more Irishmen to vote for Kennedys in American elections.

    You appear to be going Ann Coulter on us. This is the second post in recent days where you dump the 1965 Immigration Act at the feet of Teddy Kennedy and not mention Representative Celler.

    The Irish were not as negatively affected by the quotas of the 1924 Immigration Act as Southern Europeans and Jews from Eastern Europe.

    In the 10 years following 1900, about 200,000 Italians immigrated annually. With the imposition of the 1924 quota, 4,000 per year were allowed. By contrast, the annual quota for Germany after the passage of the Act was over 57,000. Some 86% of the 155,000 permitted to enter under the Act were from Northern European countries, with Germany (including Poles; see: Partitions of Poland), Britain, and Ireland having the highest quotas. The new quotas for immigration from Southern and Eastern Europe[where?] were so restrictive that in 1924 there were more Italians, Czechs, Yugoslavs, Greeks, Lithuanians, Hungarians, Portuguese, Romanians, Spaniards, Jews, Chinese, and Japanese that left the United States than those who arrived as immigrants.[19]

    So why would Kennedy need to overturn it when his people weren’t really being turned away in large numbers? Seems like the Celler Effect would be a more appropriate description than the Kennedy Effect.

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    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Teddy sponsored the 1990 Diversity Visa act to bring in more Irishmen.
    , @FKA Max

    One hand washes the other.
     
    Maybe it should really be called the Spellman Effect?

    In July 1939, a strongly worded letter from Celler to U.S. Secretary of State Cordell Hull helped set in motion an extremely prolonged process of 45 years that finally led in 1984, three years after Celler's death, to full, formal diplomatic relations between the United States and the Holy See.[2][3]
     
    - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emanuel_Celler#Service_in_the_House_of_Representatives

    Things looked better at the Waldorf-Astoria in New York. There, at a Beth Israel Hospital anniversary, guests learned that, years earlier, Rabbi Abba Hillel Silver had told Cardinal Francis Spellman of Israel's efforts to get a seat in the United Nations. To help, Spellman said he would call on South American governments and share with them his fond wish that Israel be admitted.
     
    - http://www.fisheaters.com/jewsvaticanii.html

    Perhaps he had some Irish immigrant chips on his shoulder about WASPS disrespecting his family. If he disliked the balance of power among the citizens of this country, wildly increasing immigration levels could largely shift the balance of political power and ideology in the country. [...] I know that I have been an imperfect human being, but with the help of my faith, I have tried to right my path. I want you to know, Your Holiness, that in my nearly 50 years of elective office, I have done my best to champion the rights of the poor and open doors of economic opportunity. I've worked to welcome the immigrant, fight discrimination and expand access to health care and education. . . .
     
    - https://www.numbersusa.com/content/nusablog/beckr/september-2-2009/ted-kennedys-immigration-legacy-and-why-did-he-do-it.html

    Siskel & Ebert vs. the WASPs
    http://www.unz.com/isteve/siskel-ebert-on-wasps/

    There is an ADL: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Defamation_League

    There is a Catholic League: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_League_(U.S.)

    This website - last updated in July 2015 - is the only WASP advocacy effort I have come across:


    [...] the American Anglo-Saxon Protestant upper class, bombarded by waves of immigration in the late 19th and early 20th century and facing radical change in American society, [...]

    Instead, they have retreated into a small conception of themselves, one based largely upon popular negative stereotypes.

    These stereotypes speak for themselves: WASPs are considered to be stuffy, cold, tightfisted, impotent, and closed-minded. They are thought to be exclusionary, spoiled, out-of-touch, insular, and not infrequently alcoholic.

    The fact of the matter is that WASPs have been both progressive and public-minded, especially over the last 100 years, and have been influential in business, banking, philanthropy, academia, the arts, and in public service. They have contributed in a very real way to the building of the United States, and some of our great leaders – both past and present – have been white, Anglo-Saxon, and Protestant.
     
    - https://waspmanifesto.wordpress.com/about/
    , @PV van der Byl
    Anon:

    Unlike Curley, Kennedy's ambitions for himself, his extended family, and his Party were national and dynastic. Especially before Chappaquidick.

    Curley was basically just a Boston area pol.

    Undoubtedly, both were happy to import more Irish-Catholics. And since the Boston area was always a popular destination for Irish-Catholics, that would have reinforced the electoral edge for both in Massachusetts.

    But Ireland (<4 million people at the time) was simply far too small to provide enough immigrants to create such an electoral edge at the national scale which is what mattered most to the Kennedys.

    Creating that advantage at the national level required importing immigrants from the 3rd world. As those immigrants were and are that much more dependent on government handouts and employment than the Irish, they made especially reliable Democratic Party voters.

    From a personal and family power perspective, Kennedy's behavior made perfect sense.
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  17. @Hubbub

    ...the first major Third World city in the United States
     
    Has Boston gone, or will Boston go, the way of Detroit? Or will it prove to be an exception to the rule?

    There’s tons more money in Boston and its suburbs than there ever was. Gentrification everywhere, impossible real estate.

    I don’t know where exactly all that money is coming from, but if anything the bad neighborhoods seem to be receding everywhere.

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  18. @anon

    A complement to the concept of the Curley Effect would be the Kennedy Effect honoring Ted Kennedy’s repeated efforts to import more Irishmen to vote for Kennedys in American elections.
     
    You appear to be going Ann Coulter on us. This is the second post in recent days where you dump the 1965 Immigration Act at the feet of Teddy Kennedy and not mention Representative Celler.

    The Irish were not as negatively affected by the quotas of the 1924 Immigration Act as Southern Europeans and Jews from Eastern Europe.


    In the 10 years following 1900, about 200,000 Italians immigrated annually. With the imposition of the 1924 quota, 4,000 per year were allowed. By contrast, the annual quota for Germany after the passage of the Act was over 57,000. Some 86% of the 155,000 permitted to enter under the Act were from Northern European countries, with Germany (including Poles; see: Partitions of Poland), Britain, and Ireland having the highest quotas. The new quotas for immigration from Southern and Eastern Europe[where?] were so restrictive that in 1924 there were more Italians, Czechs, Yugoslavs, Greeks, Lithuanians, Hungarians, Portuguese, Romanians, Spaniards, Jews, Chinese, and Japanese that left the United States than those who arrived as immigrants.[19]
     
    So why would Kennedy need to overturn it when his people weren't really being turned away in large numbers? Seems like the Celler Effect would be a more appropriate description than the Kennedy Effect.

    Teddy sponsored the 1990 Diversity Visa act to bring in more Irishmen.

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    • Replies: @anon
    Why would the 1990 Diversity Visa act even be needed to bring in more Irishmen? As mentioned above the Irish were in a more favorable position relative to others regarding the 1924 Act, and since the 1965 Act removed all quotas, why would the 1990 Diversity Visa Act even be needed to further Irish immigration?
    , @Ivy
    There were potatoes rotting in the fields, and they would do the jobs that Americans wouldn't.
    , @Charles Erwin Wilson

    Teddy sponsored the 1990 Diversity Visa act to bring in more Irishmen.
     
    Teddy sponsored the 1990 Diversity Visa act to bring in more Irish women. There FIFY because Teddy thought with his little head, which, unfortunately for America, was smarter than his big head.
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  19. …the first major Third World city in the United States
    </blockquote
    Surprised that this line got by the censors even in 2005. Jason Richwine was excoriated for not much more. https://thinkprogress.org/the-inside-story-of-the-harvard-dissertation-that-became-too-racist-for-heritage-3a14238f662e#.zafcyhhk9
    Expressing such a sentiment today would result in howls of outrage. I'm especially surprised at it coming from a Harvard man.

    As was predicted the election of Barry Soetoro has made any criticism of AA's off limits, to be answered with ritual boilerplate denunciations from white liberals and cries of "das raciss" from AA's themselves

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    • Replies: @snorlax

    Surprised that this line got by the censors even in 2005. Jason Richwine was excoriated for not much more.
     
    In the form of quoting another paper from '91.
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  20. anon says: • Disclaimer
    @Steve Sailer
    Teddy sponsored the 1990 Diversity Visa act to bring in more Irishmen.

    Why would the 1990 Diversity Visa act even be needed to bring in more Irishmen? As mentioned above the Irish were in a more favorable position relative to others regarding the 1924 Act, and since the 1965 Act removed all quotas, why would the 1990 Diversity Visa Act even be needed to further Irish immigration?

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    • Replies: @Lot
    You are wrong if you think it is easy right now for Europeans to immigrate legally to the USA. It is far easier for a Salvadorian than an Irishman.

    I am not so sure Kennedy cared much about the Irish however.
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  21. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer

    OT:

    Liberal Cornell Psychology Prof on implicit bias and Trump: http://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/23/opinion/sunday/how-kids-learn-prejudice.html

    Douthat on Hillary Clinton featuring iSteveish themes: http://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/23/opinion/sunday/the-dangers-of-hillary-clinton.html

    Read More
    • Replies: @Taco
    From the Cornell professor article:

    Recently, my 2½-year-old daughter asked me about the Trump video everyone seemed to be talking about. Like many parents, I had made the mistake of assuming we were still in the soft and squishy baby days when she wasn’t listening. But now she is listening.

    I told her that a man who would like to be president said some mean things that hurt a lot of people’s feelings. My daughter started to cry; like many children, she is sensitive. I hugged her and assured her that everything would be O.K.
     

    I'll take "things that never happened for 500," Alec.
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  22. snorlax says:
    @syonredux

    Relative to most white groups, too. Over in the Old World they’ve managed to produce a nicer standard of living and a healthier body politic than their neighbors the WASPs, despite the latter’s enormous head start. And over here the pretty strong upwards trend for Boston and New York, especially relative to other major cities, has to count for something.

    Not that it should be the operative consideration, but they’re also a people who are known for their good looks and are disproportionately represented amongst movie stars.
     
    Read Thomas Sowell. The Irish also brought with them political corruption, mob violence, crime, etc. Not to mention drunkenness and urban poverty on a level hitherto unknown in Anglo-America. To put it bluntly, if you lived in 19th century America, you wouldn't want an Irishman for a neighbor.

    And then there's the fact that they introduced the nauseating concept of "hyphenated-Americans," making "Irish-Americans" the first step in multiculturalism....

    To put it bluntly, if you lived in 19th century America, you wouldn’t want an Irishman for a neighbor.

    You won’t find any disagreement from me that the WASPs should not have allowed the “great waves” of immigration. Relatively speaking, the WASPs are doing far worse than they were in the 19c.

    Jury’s still out on whether they were a good thing for America — on the one hand it’s the reason the “we’re a nation of immigrants” line has such effectiveness, on the other hand American WASPs are literally the people who invented leftist racial ideology and were fanatics from the start.

    In any event the great-wavers assimilated fully, have been hugely net-positive economic and scientific contributors, and made the majority-minority tipping point a much higher bar to clear.

    The Irish also brought with them political corruption

    A bit of a pot, kettle situation. The biggest denouncers of Irish corruption were also the biggest boosters of Grant and Reconstruction. The premier anti-Irish politician of the 19c, James Blaine, was also at the top of the corruption charts.

    mob violence, crime, etc. Not to mention drunkenness and urban poverty on a level hitherto unknown in Anglo-America.

    This is all by 19th-century standards, which were rather higher than today’s. The 19c definition of drunkenness being “consumes any alcohol at all,” violence being the very occasional stabbing, etc.

    Occasionally someone will write an article pointing out that the “Wild West” actually featured very little violent crime (by today’s standards), but of course by 19c standards it was wild.

    In any event Irish-Americans are nowadays amongst the top-performing white groups in terms of income, educational attainment, crime, illegitimacy etc.

    And then there’s the fact that they introduced the nauseating concept of “hyphenated-Americans,” making “Irish-Americans” the first step in multiculturalism….

    I believe Teddy Roosevelt was the inventor of that term. In any event, in the 19c loyalty to one’s own kin was considered normal and natural.

    Americans inserting their ethnically-motivated dual loyalties into the political sphere goes at least back to Hamilton.* Roosevelt himself had similar dual loyalties — in pursuit of which he coined the term “hyphenated-Americans!”

    *Jefferson, on the other hand, inaugurated dual loyalty on the basis of ethnomasochism combined with fanatical leftism.

    Read More
    • Replies: @syonredux
    The Irish also brought with them political corruption

    A bit of a pot, kettle situation. The biggest denouncers of Irish corruption were also the biggest boosters of Grant and Reconstruction. The premier anti-Irish politician of the 19c, James Blaine, was also at the top of the corruption charts.
     
    Dunno. Just about every foreign visitor to the USA remarked on Irish corruption, on how they debased urban life with their need for hand-outs and government jobs.

    In any event the great-wavers assimilated fully, have been hugely net-positive economic and scientific contributors, and made the majority-minority tipping point a much higher bar to clear.
     
    Dunno. Arguments have been made that they suppressed the Anglo birthrate....

    As for science and the arts....Dunno. We had a conversation on Steve's site a while back about the lack of cultural contributions from the MA Irish during the period 1850-1950. No one could name an MA Irish person of the calibre of Hawthorne, Goddard, Parkman, Prescott, William James, etc.

    This is all by 19th-century standards, which were rather higher than today’s. The 19c definition of drunkenness being “consumes any alcohol at all,” violence being the very occasional stabbing, etc.

     

    Again, dunno. The accounts of the time describe the Irish as being in drunken stupors, etc. As for violence, again, it was much higher in every category, murder included.

    In any event Irish-Americans are nowadays amongst the top-performing white groups in terms of income, educational attainment, crime, illegitimacy etc.
     
    Took them long enough.

    And then there’s the fact that they introduced the nauseating concept of “hyphenated-Americans,” making “Irish-Americans” the first step in multiculturalism….

    I believe Teddy Roosevelt was the inventor of that term. In any event, in the 19c loyalty to one’s own kith and kin was considered normal and natural.
     
    Of course it's natural. That's why the Irish should not have been allowed in.

    As for TR, he was describing a disease: "the hyphenate."
    , @syonredux

    Americans inserting their ethnically-motivated dual loyalties into the political sphere goes at least back to Hamilton.* Roosevelt himself had similar dual loyalties — in pursuit of which he coined the term “hyphenated-Americans!”
     
    What "dual loyalties" are you talking about?Here's your link for TR:

    When World War I began in 1914, Roosevelt strongly supported the Allies and demanded a harsher policy against Germany, especially regarding submarine warfare. Roosevelt angrily denounced the foreign policy of President Wilson, calling it a failure regarding the atrocities in Belgium and the violations of American rights.[198] In 1916, he campaigned energetically for Charles Evans Hughes and repeatedly denounced Irish-Americans and German-Americans whom he described as unpatriotic, saying they put the interests of Ireland and Germany ahead of America's by supporting neutrality. He insisted that one had to be 100% American, not a "hyphenated American" who juggled multiple loyalties. In March 1917, Congress gave Roosevelt the authority to raise a maximum of four divisions similar to the Rough Riders, and Major Frederick Russell Burnham was put in charge of both the general organization and recruitment.[199][200] However, the Commander-in-chief, President Woodrow Wilson, announced to the press that he would not send Roosevelt and his volunteers to France, but instead would send an American Expeditionary Force under the command of General John J. Pershing.[201] Roosevelt was forced to disband the volunteers. He never forgave Wilson, and quickly published The Foes Of Our Own Household, an indictment of the sitting president.[202][203][204]
    Roosevelt's attacks on Wilson helped the Republicans win control of Congress in the off-year elections of 1918. Roosevelt was popular enough to contest the 1920 Republican nomination, but his health was broken by 1918, because of the lingering malaria. His family and supporters threw their support behind Roosevelt's old military companion, General Leonard Wood, who was ultimately defeated by Taft supporter Warren G. Harding.[205] Roosevelt's youngest son, Quentin, a pilot with the American forces in France, was shot down behind German lines on July 14, 1918, at the age of 20. It is said that Quentin's death distressed Roosevelt so much that he never recovered from his loss.
     
    And Hamilton:

    During the military build-up of the Quasi-War of 1798–1800, and with the strong endorsement of Washington (who had been called out of retirement to lead the Army if a French invasion materialized), Adams reluctantly appointed Hamilton a major general of the army. At Washington's insistence, Hamilton was made the senior major general, prompting Henry Knox to decline appointment to serve as Hamilton's junior (Knox had been a major general in the Continental Army and thought it would be degrading to serve beneath him).[7]:558–60[105] Hamilton served as inspector general of the United States Army from July 18, 1798, to June 15, 1800; because Washington was unwilling to leave Mount Vernon unless it were to command an army in the field, Hamilton was the de facto head of the army, to Adams's considerable displeasure. If full-scale war broke out with France, Hamilton argued that the army should conquer the North American colonies of France's ally, Spain, bordering the United States.[106] Hamilton was prepared to march his army through the Southern United States if necessary, possibly also using his army in Virginia to quash opposition to Adams and himself.[107]
    To fund this army, Hamilton wrote regularly to Oliver Wolcott, Jr., his successor at the Treasury; William Loughton Smith, of the House Ways and Means Committee; and Senator Theodore Sedgwick of Massachusetts. He directed them to pass a direct tax to fund the war. Smith resigned in July 1797, as Hamilton scolded him for slowness, and told Wolcott to tax houses instead of land.[108] The eventual program included a Stamp Act like that of the British before the Revolution and other taxes on land, houses, and slaves, calculated at different rates in different states, and requiring difficult and intricate assessment of houses.[109] This provoked resistance in southeastern Pennsylvania, led primarily by men such as John Fries who had marched with Washington against the Whiskey Rebellion.[110]
    Hamilton aided in all areas of the army's development, and after Washington's death he was by default the Senior Officer of the United States Army from December 14, 1799, to June 15, 1800. The army was to guard against invasion from France. Adams, however, derailed all plans for war by opening negotiations with France.[111] Adams had held it proper to retain the members of Washington's cabinet, except for cause; he found, in 1800 (after Washington's death), that they were obeying Hamilton rather than himself, and fired several of them.[112]

     

    Am I missing something?
    , @syonredux
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iJNFnYPJHWA
    , @Je Suis Charlie Martel
    Post WWII saw huge intermarriage among ethnic Catholics, which then led to the largest enrollments in Catholic schools as they sought identity as American Catholics and no longer [Nation-of-Origin]-Catholics... Of course the bishops effed up this opportunity and allowed their flock to be labeled "whites" who happen to be Catholic, and so all social justice got turned towards black-white issues and anti-racism. The American Catholic identity never really formed and Catholics became Pro-Life (R) or Social Justice (D), and their vote split and power neutralized, to be used and manipulated by the neocons on the Right and Soros et al. on the Left. Embarrassing.

    Podesta for example: peasant Catholic stock, poorly educated in his cultural and civilizational heritage, but well-trained in the practical tools of power and politics. Like many upwardly mobile Catholics, he carries the water for those who seek to eliminate the cultural legacy of his people. A Judas or, better yet, a Janissary

    Or Santorum: Peasant stock, Poorly educated in his cultural heritage, (a damn idiot in person), carries water for the War Machine of the Right. A Judas or a Janissary

    The Triple Melting Pot theory states that after three generation ethnic identity becomes religion not country of origin, so the USA would have still been balkanized along the lines of Catholic/Protestant/Jew. Now we get to add Muslim/Hindu/Animist/Zoroastrian/Buddhist... of course, only after three generations, they are still loyal to culture/country of origin now.

    Viva Azania!

    , @Anon

    Occasionally someone will write an article pointing out that the “Wild West” actually featured very little violent crime (by today’s standards), but of course by 19c standards it was wild.
     
    This just isn't true. The homicide rate in California was well over 50 per 100,000 through most of the 1800s. Even in Chicago today, it's only 20. Cite:

    http://sites.nationalacademies.org/cs/groups/dbassesite/documents/webpage/dbasse_083892.pdf
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  23. snorlax says:
    @jesse helms think-alike

    …the first major Third World city in the United States
    </blockquote
    Surprised that this line got by the censors even in 2005. Jason Richwine was excoriated for not much more. https://thinkprogress.org/the-inside-story-of-the-harvard-dissertation-that-became-too-racist-for-heritage-3a14238f662e#.zafcyhhk9
    Expressing such a sentiment today would result in howls of outrage. I'm especially surprised at it coming from a Harvard man.

    As was predicted the election of Barry Soetoro has made any criticism of AA's off limits, to be answered with ritual boilerplate denunciations from white liberals and cries of "das raciss" from AA's themselves

    Surprised that this line got by the censors even in 2005. Jason Richwine was excoriated for not much more.

    In the form of quoting another paper from ’91.

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  24. syonredux says:
    @snorlax

    To put it bluntly, if you lived in 19th century America, you wouldn’t want an Irishman for a neighbor.
     
    You won't find any disagreement from me that the WASPs should not have allowed the "great waves" of immigration. Relatively speaking, the WASPs are doing far worse than they were in the 19c.

    Jury's still out on whether they were a good thing for America — on the one hand it's the reason the "we're a nation of immigrants" line has such effectiveness, on the other hand American WASPs are literally the people who invented leftist racial ideology and were fanatics from the start.

    In any event the great-wavers assimilated fully, have been hugely net-positive economic and scientific contributors, and made the majority-minority tipping point a much higher bar to clear.


    The Irish also brought with them political corruption
     
    A bit of a pot, kettle situation. The biggest denouncers of Irish corruption were also the biggest boosters of Grant and Reconstruction. The premier anti-Irish politician of the 19c, James Blaine, was also at the top of the corruption charts.

    mob violence, crime, etc. Not to mention drunkenness and urban poverty on a level hitherto unknown in Anglo-America.
     
    This is all by 19th-century standards, which were rather higher than today's. The 19c definition of drunkenness being "consumes any alcohol at all," violence being the very occasional stabbing, etc.

    Occasionally someone will write an article pointing out that the "Wild West" actually featured very little violent crime (by today's standards), but of course by 19c standards it was wild.

    In any event Irish-Americans are nowadays amongst the top-performing white groups in terms of income, educational attainment, crime, illegitimacy etc.


    And then there’s the fact that they introduced the nauseating concept of “hyphenated-Americans,” making “Irish-Americans” the first step in multiculturalism….
     
    I believe Teddy Roosevelt was the inventor of that term. In any event, in the 19c loyalty to one's own kin was considered normal and natural.

    Americans inserting their ethnically-motivated dual loyalties into the political sphere goes at least back to Hamilton.* Roosevelt himself had similar dual loyalties — in pursuit of which he coined the term "hyphenated-Americans!"

    *Jefferson, on the other hand, inaugurated dual loyalty on the basis of ethnomasochism combined with fanatical leftism.

    The Irish also brought with them political corruption

    A bit of a pot, kettle situation. The biggest denouncers of Irish corruption were also the biggest boosters of Grant and Reconstruction. The premier anti-Irish politician of the 19c, James Blaine, was also at the top of the corruption charts.

    Dunno. Just about every foreign visitor to the USA remarked on Irish corruption, on how they debased urban life with their need for hand-outs and government jobs.

    In any event the great-wavers assimilated fully, have been hugely net-positive economic and scientific contributors, and made the majority-minority tipping point a much higher bar to clear.

    Dunno. Arguments have been made that they suppressed the Anglo birthrate….

    As for science and the arts….Dunno. We had a conversation on Steve’s site a while back about the lack of cultural contributions from the MA Irish during the period 1850-1950. No one could name an MA Irish person of the calibre of Hawthorne, Goddard, Parkman, Prescott, William James, etc.

    This is all by 19th-century standards, which were rather higher than today’s. The 19c definition of drunkenness being “consumes any alcohol at all,” violence being the very occasional stabbing, etc.

    Again, dunno. The accounts of the time describe the Irish as being in drunken stupors, etc. As for violence, again, it was much higher in every category, murder included.

    In any event Irish-Americans are nowadays amongst the top-performing white groups in terms of income, educational attainment, crime, illegitimacy etc.

    Took them long enough.

    And then there’s the fact that they introduced the nauseating concept of “hyphenated-Americans,” making “Irish-Americans” the first step in multiculturalism….

    I believe Teddy Roosevelt was the inventor of that term. In any event, in the 19c loyalty to one’s own kith and kin was considered normal and natural.

    Of course it’s natural. That’s why the Irish should not have been allowed in.

    As for TR, he was describing a disease: “the hyphenate.”

    Read More
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  25. syonredux says:
    @snorlax

    To put it bluntly, if you lived in 19th century America, you wouldn’t want an Irishman for a neighbor.
     
    You won't find any disagreement from me that the WASPs should not have allowed the "great waves" of immigration. Relatively speaking, the WASPs are doing far worse than they were in the 19c.

    Jury's still out on whether they were a good thing for America — on the one hand it's the reason the "we're a nation of immigrants" line has such effectiveness, on the other hand American WASPs are literally the people who invented leftist racial ideology and were fanatics from the start.

    In any event the great-wavers assimilated fully, have been hugely net-positive economic and scientific contributors, and made the majority-minority tipping point a much higher bar to clear.


    The Irish also brought with them political corruption
     
    A bit of a pot, kettle situation. The biggest denouncers of Irish corruption were also the biggest boosters of Grant and Reconstruction. The premier anti-Irish politician of the 19c, James Blaine, was also at the top of the corruption charts.

    mob violence, crime, etc. Not to mention drunkenness and urban poverty on a level hitherto unknown in Anglo-America.
     
    This is all by 19th-century standards, which were rather higher than today's. The 19c definition of drunkenness being "consumes any alcohol at all," violence being the very occasional stabbing, etc.

    Occasionally someone will write an article pointing out that the "Wild West" actually featured very little violent crime (by today's standards), but of course by 19c standards it was wild.

    In any event Irish-Americans are nowadays amongst the top-performing white groups in terms of income, educational attainment, crime, illegitimacy etc.


    And then there’s the fact that they introduced the nauseating concept of “hyphenated-Americans,” making “Irish-Americans” the first step in multiculturalism….
     
    I believe Teddy Roosevelt was the inventor of that term. In any event, in the 19c loyalty to one's own kin was considered normal and natural.

    Americans inserting their ethnically-motivated dual loyalties into the political sphere goes at least back to Hamilton.* Roosevelt himself had similar dual loyalties — in pursuit of which he coined the term "hyphenated-Americans!"

    *Jefferson, on the other hand, inaugurated dual loyalty on the basis of ethnomasochism combined with fanatical leftism.

    Americans inserting their ethnically-motivated dual loyalties into the political sphere goes at least back to Hamilton.* Roosevelt himself had similar dual loyalties — in pursuit of which he coined the term “hyphenated-Americans!”

    What “dual loyalties” are you talking about?Here’s your link for TR:

    When World War I began in 1914, Roosevelt strongly supported the Allies and demanded a harsher policy against Germany, especially regarding submarine warfare. Roosevelt angrily denounced the foreign policy of President Wilson, calling it a failure regarding the atrocities in Belgium and the violations of American rights.[198] In 1916, he campaigned energetically for Charles Evans Hughes and repeatedly denounced Irish-Americans and German-Americans whom he described as unpatriotic, saying they put the interests of Ireland and Germany ahead of America’s by supporting neutrality. He insisted that one had to be 100% American, not a “hyphenated American” who juggled multiple loyalties. In March 1917, Congress gave Roosevelt the authority to raise a maximum of four divisions similar to the Rough Riders, and Major Frederick Russell Burnham was put in charge of both the general organization and recruitment.[199][200] However, the Commander-in-chief, President Woodrow Wilson, announced to the press that he would not send Roosevelt and his volunteers to France, but instead would send an American Expeditionary Force under the command of General John J. Pershing.[201] Roosevelt was forced to disband the volunteers. He never forgave Wilson, and quickly published The Foes Of Our Own Household, an indictment of the sitting president.[202][203][204]
    Roosevelt’s attacks on Wilson helped the Republicans win control of Congress in the off-year elections of 1918. Roosevelt was popular enough to contest the 1920 Republican nomination, but his health was broken by 1918, because of the lingering malaria. His family and supporters threw their support behind Roosevelt’s old military companion, General Leonard Wood, who was ultimately defeated by Taft supporter Warren G. Harding.[205] Roosevelt’s youngest son, Quentin, a pilot with the American forces in France, was shot down behind German lines on July 14, 1918, at the age of 20. It is said that Quentin’s death distressed Roosevelt so much that he never recovered from his loss.

    And Hamilton:

    During the military build-up of the Quasi-War of 1798–1800, and with the strong endorsement of Washington (who had been called out of retirement to lead the Army if a French invasion materialized), Adams reluctantly appointed Hamilton a major general of the army. At Washington’s insistence, Hamilton was made the senior major general, prompting Henry Knox to decline appointment to serve as Hamilton’s junior (Knox had been a major general in the Continental Army and thought it would be degrading to serve beneath him).[7]:558–60[105] Hamilton served as inspector general of the United States Army from July 18, 1798, to June 15, 1800; because Washington was unwilling to leave Mount Vernon unless it were to command an army in the field, Hamilton was the de facto head of the army, to Adams’s considerable displeasure. If full-scale war broke out with France, Hamilton argued that the army should conquer the North American colonies of France’s ally, Spain, bordering the United States.[106] Hamilton was prepared to march his army through the Southern United States if necessary, possibly also using his army in Virginia to quash opposition to Adams and himself.[107]
    To fund this army, Hamilton wrote regularly to Oliver Wolcott, Jr., his successor at the Treasury; William Loughton Smith, of the House Ways and Means Committee; and Senator Theodore Sedgwick of Massachusetts. He directed them to pass a direct tax to fund the war. Smith resigned in July 1797, as Hamilton scolded him for slowness, and told Wolcott to tax houses instead of land.[108] The eventual program included a Stamp Act like that of the British before the Revolution and other taxes on land, houses, and slaves, calculated at different rates in different states, and requiring difficult and intricate assessment of houses.[109] This provoked resistance in southeastern Pennsylvania, led primarily by men such as John Fries who had marched with Washington against the Whiskey Rebellion.[110]
    Hamilton aided in all areas of the army’s development, and after Washington’s death he was by default the Senior Officer of the United States Army from December 14, 1799, to June 15, 1800. The army was to guard against invasion from France. Adams, however, derailed all plans for war by opening negotiations with France.[111] Adams had held it proper to retain the members of Washington’s cabinet, except for cause; he found, in 1800 (after Washington’s death), that they were obeying Hamilton rather than himself, and fired several of them.[112]

    Am I missing something?

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  26. syonredux says:
    @snorlax

    To put it bluntly, if you lived in 19th century America, you wouldn’t want an Irishman for a neighbor.
     
    You won't find any disagreement from me that the WASPs should not have allowed the "great waves" of immigration. Relatively speaking, the WASPs are doing far worse than they were in the 19c.

    Jury's still out on whether they were a good thing for America — on the one hand it's the reason the "we're a nation of immigrants" line has such effectiveness, on the other hand American WASPs are literally the people who invented leftist racial ideology and were fanatics from the start.

    In any event the great-wavers assimilated fully, have been hugely net-positive economic and scientific contributors, and made the majority-minority tipping point a much higher bar to clear.


    The Irish also brought with them political corruption
     
    A bit of a pot, kettle situation. The biggest denouncers of Irish corruption were also the biggest boosters of Grant and Reconstruction. The premier anti-Irish politician of the 19c, James Blaine, was also at the top of the corruption charts.

    mob violence, crime, etc. Not to mention drunkenness and urban poverty on a level hitherto unknown in Anglo-America.
     
    This is all by 19th-century standards, which were rather higher than today's. The 19c definition of drunkenness being "consumes any alcohol at all," violence being the very occasional stabbing, etc.

    Occasionally someone will write an article pointing out that the "Wild West" actually featured very little violent crime (by today's standards), but of course by 19c standards it was wild.

    In any event Irish-Americans are nowadays amongst the top-performing white groups in terms of income, educational attainment, crime, illegitimacy etc.


    And then there’s the fact that they introduced the nauseating concept of “hyphenated-Americans,” making “Irish-Americans” the first step in multiculturalism….
     
    I believe Teddy Roosevelt was the inventor of that term. In any event, in the 19c loyalty to one's own kin was considered normal and natural.

    Americans inserting their ethnically-motivated dual loyalties into the political sphere goes at least back to Hamilton.* Roosevelt himself had similar dual loyalties — in pursuit of which he coined the term "hyphenated-Americans!"

    *Jefferson, on the other hand, inaugurated dual loyalty on the basis of ethnomasochism combined with fanatical leftism.

    Read More
    • Replies: @JohnnyWalker123
    Donald Trump is our Bill.

    Don "The Daring"
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  27. Trelane says:
    @D. K.
    OT:

    "The Cubs win the pennant! The Cubs win the pennant! The Cubs win the pennant!"

    Yea Cubs!

    There’s gotta be a phone or a gas station around here somewhere

    Read More
    • Replies: @JohnnyWalker123
    ...... but whose curse is worse?
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  28. @Trelane
    Yea Cubs!

    There's gotta be a phone or a gas station around here somewhere

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=iYTdILs7-1Q#t=93

    …… but whose curse is worse?

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  29. @syonredux
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iJNFnYPJHWA

    Donald Trump is our Bill.

    Don “The Daring”

    Read More
    • Replies: @JohnnyWalker123
    In his speech today, Trump said he'd deport 2 million illegals in his first 100 days and also suspend immigration from the Muslim nations.
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  30. @JohnnyWalker123
    Donald Trump is our Bill.

    Don "The Daring"

    In his speech today, Trump said he’d deport 2 million illegals in his first 100 days and also suspend immigration from the Muslim nations.

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  31. I live in a city that’s 88% white. How can I get some of my local politicians to use the Curley Model to bring some of that Austrian-style diversity to my boring, lily-white enclave?

    In a truly shocking twist the Suptreme Court decided the grown Iraqi man may not have realised the 10-year-old did not want to be sexually abused by him.

    Amir A, 20, was visiting the Theresienbad pool in the Austrian capital of Vienna last December as part of a trip to encourage integration.

    Amir A. made the honest mistake of thinking he was supposed to integrate locals into his Iraqi culture. Whoops!

    When the youngster went to the showers, Amir A. allegedly followed him, pushed him into a toilet cubicle, and violently sexually assaulted him.

    Following the attack, the accused rapist returned to the pool and was practising on the diving board when police arrived…

    The child suffered severe anal injuries which had to be treated at a local children’s hospital, and is still plagued by serious post-traumatic stress disorder.

    In a police interview, Amir A. confessed to the crime; telling officers the incident had been “a sexual emergency”, as his wife had remained in Iraq and he “had not had sex in four months”.

    Who can blame him? A grown woman and a 10-year-old boy are completely interchangeable for sexual purposes, right?

    A court found Amir guilty of serious sexual assault and rape of a minor, and sentenced him to six years in jail. However, in a bizarre twist, the Supreme Court yesterday overturned the conviction, accepting the defence lawyer’s claim that the original court had not done enough to ascertain whether or not the rapist realised the child was saying no.

    …The appeal court said the initial ruling should have dealt with whether the offender thought that the victim had agreed with the sexual act, or whether he had intended to act against his will.

    The age of consent in Austria is 14, so one might ask what the boy’s willingness to be raped has to do with anything. But to ask that question is to miss the point – what’s a piddling little thing like a few kids getting sodomized in exchange for the vibrance and enrichment we can experience by inviting a few billion third-worlders?

    Read More
    • Replies: @AndrewR
    If Austrians were worth saving, they would make those judges strongly regret their treason.
    , @Mr. Anon
    "The age of consent in Austria is 14, so one might ask what the boy’s willingness to be raped has to do with anything. But to ask that question is to miss the point – what’s a piddling little thing like a few kids getting sodomized in exchange for the vibrance and enrichment we can experience by inviting a few billion third-worlders?"

    It is entirely possible that some of the people encouraging this third-world invasion of the west admire some aspects of arab culture, like pederasty, and are using the invasion as a means of normalizing such perversions here.
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  32. Marie says:

    OT- a plaintive cry in the NYT’s Sunday Review calling for the revival of feminist ‘political witchcraft’…this is pretty insane, even for NYT standards: were you aware that Alex Jones calling Hillary an ‘evil wicked witch picked by the globalists to curse this country’ is merely the latest example of historically misogynistic attacks leveled against powerful female witches? Yes, it’s all so unfair because, as noted by the completely unbiased and impartial historian Barbara Ehrenreich, ‘the first accusations must witchcraft in Europe grew out of male doctors’ anxieties about competition from female healers’. Further, ‘we could use more witchcraft in our politics’, because powerful feminist warrior-witches, like Hillary Rodham Clinton, demonstrate ‘faith in the balance between humans and the natural world, in the power of sexuality, in human equality and dignity, and in community over hierarchical power or authority’. So take *that*, alt-right Trumpists!

    Lastly, a ‘fuller examination of what a politics of witchcraft might look like’ can supposedly be found within the highly inspirational plotline of the ’96 movie The Craft, wherein enterprising student-witches *form their own coven* (lol).

    I love knowing that DJT is so triggering to the feminist hacks at the NYT that they’re actually resorting to casting spells, starting covens, and attempting to put hexes on him. Sorry, ladies. #MAGA

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    • LOL: snorlax
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  33. Lot says:
    @anon
    Why would the 1990 Diversity Visa act even be needed to bring in more Irishmen? As mentioned above the Irish were in a more favorable position relative to others regarding the 1924 Act, and since the 1965 Act removed all quotas, why would the 1990 Diversity Visa Act even be needed to further Irish immigration?

    You are wrong if you think it is easy right now for Europeans to immigrate legally to the USA. It is far easier for a Salvadorian than an Irishman.

    I am not so sure Kennedy cared much about the Irish however.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Wilkey
    I am not so sure Kennedy cared much about the Irish however.

    Indeed. If Kennedy's goal was merely to boost Irish immigration, then he repeatedly failed. But he never apologized for his failures, never revisited or reworked his old laws except to help them fail even more. By the time he got to the end of his career he was pushing for a same-but-worse repeat of the amnesty that had failed so disastrously in 1986.

    Looking back, the reason conservatives have lost so drastically on immigration is in large part thanks to the Bush family. It was President George H. W. Bush who deliberately scuttled the enforcement provisions of the 1986 amnesty law and then consented to a massive immigration expansion in 1990, which included adding the diversity lottery and the H-1B visa program. In theory the 1990 law cut back on chain migration by limiting who qualifies as family, but in reality it greatly increased the number of family members allowed to receive visas each year.

    The 1990 bill only passed by 231-192 in the House, so it could easily have been killed off with a veto. Most of the 17 votes against the bill in the Senate were by Democrats (including Harry Reid and Al Gore), but 127 of the 192 votes against the bill in the House were by Republicans, so by not vetoing the bill Bush stabbed his own party in the back.

    Then of course from 2001-2008 his son looked the other way while millions of illegals poured into the country and gave birth to millions of anchor babies, while he attempted twice to force an amnesty down our throats. I can remember quite well the press conference following Republican loss of the House and Senate after the 2006 elections where Bush's press secretary was all but dancing on the graves of defeated Republicans, proclaiming it was a great chance to try again at passing an amnesty.

    Ted Kennedy and Emmanuel Celler may have had it in for America, but it is the Bush family that pulled the trigger.

    , @res

    You are wrong if you think it is easy right now for Europeans to immigrate legally to the USA. It is far easier for a Salvadorian than an Irishman.
     
    Do you know of any quantification of this? For example, what proportion of the applicant pools succeed? How long on average does the process take for each group? How do the qualifications (including "family reunification" as a qualification?) compare for those admitted from each group? What is the average out of pocket expense for each group (e.g. is there aid that favors Salvadorans)? Any other signs like laws which specifically favor Salvadorans?

    P.S. I'd be even more interested in data covering groups comprising a larger proportion of our immigrants than Salvadorans and the Irish do.

    P.P.S. Revisiting "Ecuadoran" etc. from another thread:
    https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20101027120306AAO1LYY
    https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=Salvadoran%2CSalvadorian%2CSalvadorean&year_start=1880&year_end=2010&corpus=15&smoothing=3&share=&direct_url=t1%3B%2CSalvadoran%3B%2Cc0%3B.t1%3B%2CSalvadorian%3B%2Cc0%3B.t1%3B%2CSalvadorean%3B%2Cc0
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  34. Ed says:
    @syonredux

    Relative to most white groups, too. Over in the Old World they’ve managed to produce a nicer standard of living and a healthier body politic than their neighbors the WASPs, despite the latter’s enormous head start. And over here the pretty strong upwards trend for Boston and New York, especially relative to other major cities, has to count for something.

    Not that it should be the operative consideration, but they’re also a people who are known for their good looks and are disproportionately represented amongst movie stars.
     
    Read Thomas Sowell. The Irish also brought with them political corruption, mob violence, crime, etc. Not to mention drunkenness and urban poverty on a level hitherto unknown in Anglo-America. To put it bluntly, if you lived in 19th century America, you wouldn't want an Irishman for a neighbor.

    And then there's the fact that they introduced the nauseating concept of "hyphenated-Americans," making "Irish-Americans" the first step in multiculturalism....

    At the time they were considered so low even blacks didn’t want to live next to them.

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  35. FKA Max says:
    @anon

    A complement to the concept of the Curley Effect would be the Kennedy Effect honoring Ted Kennedy’s repeated efforts to import more Irishmen to vote for Kennedys in American elections.
     
    You appear to be going Ann Coulter on us. This is the second post in recent days where you dump the 1965 Immigration Act at the feet of Teddy Kennedy and not mention Representative Celler.

    The Irish were not as negatively affected by the quotas of the 1924 Immigration Act as Southern Europeans and Jews from Eastern Europe.


    In the 10 years following 1900, about 200,000 Italians immigrated annually. With the imposition of the 1924 quota, 4,000 per year were allowed. By contrast, the annual quota for Germany after the passage of the Act was over 57,000. Some 86% of the 155,000 permitted to enter under the Act were from Northern European countries, with Germany (including Poles; see: Partitions of Poland), Britain, and Ireland having the highest quotas. The new quotas for immigration from Southern and Eastern Europe[where?] were so restrictive that in 1924 there were more Italians, Czechs, Yugoslavs, Greeks, Lithuanians, Hungarians, Portuguese, Romanians, Spaniards, Jews, Chinese, and Japanese that left the United States than those who arrived as immigrants.[19]
     
    So why would Kennedy need to overturn it when his people weren't really being turned away in large numbers? Seems like the Celler Effect would be a more appropriate description than the Kennedy Effect.

    One hand washes the other.

    Maybe it should really be called the Spellman Effect?

    In July 1939, a strongly worded letter from Celler to U.S. Secretary of State Cordell Hull helped set in motion an extremely prolonged process of 45 years that finally led in 1984, three years after Celler’s death, to full, formal diplomatic relations between the United States and the Holy See.[2][3]

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emanuel_Celler#Service_in_the_House_of_Representatives

    Things looked better at the Waldorf-Astoria in New York. There, at a Beth Israel Hospital anniversary, guests learned that, years earlier, Rabbi Abba Hillel Silver had told Cardinal Francis Spellman of Israel’s efforts to get a seat in the United Nations. To help, Spellman said he would call on South American governments and share with them his fond wish that Israel be admitted.

    http://www.fisheaters.com/jewsvaticanii.html

    Perhaps he had some Irish immigrant chips on his shoulder about WASPS disrespecting his family. If he disliked the balance of power among the citizens of this country, wildly increasing immigration levels could largely shift the balance of political power and ideology in the country. [...] I know that I have been an imperfect human being, but with the help of my faith, I have tried to right my path. I want you to know, Your Holiness, that in my nearly 50 years of elective office, I have done my best to champion the rights of the poor and open doors of economic opportunity. I’ve worked to welcome the immigrant, fight discrimination and expand access to health care and education. . . .

    https://www.numbersusa.com/content/nusablog/beckr/september-2-2009/ted-kennedys-immigration-legacy-and-why-did-he-do-it.html

    Siskel & Ebert vs. the WASPs

    http://www.unz.com/isteve/siskel-ebert-on-wasps/

    There is an ADL: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Defamation_League

    There is a Catholic League: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_League_(U.S.)

    This website – last updated in July 2015 – is the only WASP advocacy effort I have come across:

    [...] the American Anglo-Saxon Protestant upper class, bombarded by waves of immigration in the late 19th and early 20th century and facing radical change in American society, [...]

    Instead, they have retreated into a small conception of themselves, one based largely upon popular negative stereotypes.

    These stereotypes speak for themselves: WASPs are considered to be stuffy, cold, tightfisted, impotent, and closed-minded. They are thought to be exclusionary, spoiled, out-of-touch, insular, and not infrequently alcoholic.

    The fact of the matter is that WASPs have been both progressive and public-minded, especially over the last 100 years, and have been influential in business, banking, philanthropy, academia, the arts, and in public service. They have contributed in a very real way to the building of the United States, and some of our great leaders – both past and present – have been white, Anglo-Saxon, and Protestant.

    https://waspmanifesto.wordpress.com/about/

    Read More
    • Replies: @bonnyblue1607
    There are seemingly few blogs that advocate for 'WASPs' or English-descended Americans. That's why I started my blog, which is
    http://theoldinheritance.wordpress.com

    I write about historical and cultural matters as well as the political side, about the 'ethnic cleansing' of WASPs, etc.

    I hope it's all right to offer the link to my blog above.
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  36. Wilkey says:
    @Lot
    You are wrong if you think it is easy right now for Europeans to immigrate legally to the USA. It is far easier for a Salvadorian than an Irishman.

    I am not so sure Kennedy cared much about the Irish however.

    I am not so sure Kennedy cared much about the Irish however.

    Indeed. If Kennedy’s goal was merely to boost Irish immigration, then he repeatedly failed. But he never apologized for his failures, never revisited or reworked his old laws except to help them fail even more. By the time he got to the end of his career he was pushing for a same-but-worse repeat of the amnesty that had failed so disastrously in 1986.

    Looking back, the reason conservatives have lost so drastically on immigration is in large part thanks to the Bush family. It was President George H. W. Bush who deliberately scuttled the enforcement provisions of the 1986 amnesty law and then consented to a massive immigration expansion in 1990, which included adding the diversity lottery and the H-1B visa program. In theory the 1990 law cut back on chain migration by limiting who qualifies as family, but in reality it greatly increased the number of family members allowed to receive visas each year.

    The 1990 bill only passed by 231-192 in the House, so it could easily have been killed off with a veto. Most of the 17 votes against the bill in the Senate were by Democrats (including Harry Reid and Al Gore), but 127 of the 192 votes against the bill in the House were by Republicans, so by not vetoing the bill Bush stabbed his own party in the back.

    Then of course from 2001-2008 his son looked the other way while millions of illegals poured into the country and gave birth to millions of anchor babies, while he attempted twice to force an amnesty down our throats. I can remember quite well the press conference following Republican loss of the House and Senate after the 2006 elections where Bush’s press secretary was all but dancing on the graves of defeated Republicans, proclaiming it was a great chance to try again at passing an amnesty.

    Ted Kennedy and Emmanuel Celler may have had it in for America, but it is the Bush family that pulled the trigger.

    Read More
    • Agree: Mike Sylwester
    • Replies: @Mr. Anon
    "Ted Kennedy and Emmanuel Celler may have had it in for America, but it is the Bush family that pulled the trigger."

    The Bushes are awful - all of them. They've done as much damage to this country as any Democrat.
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  37. @FKA Max

    One hand washes the other.
     
    Maybe it should really be called the Spellman Effect?

    In July 1939, a strongly worded letter from Celler to U.S. Secretary of State Cordell Hull helped set in motion an extremely prolonged process of 45 years that finally led in 1984, three years after Celler's death, to full, formal diplomatic relations between the United States and the Holy See.[2][3]
     
    - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emanuel_Celler#Service_in_the_House_of_Representatives

    Things looked better at the Waldorf-Astoria in New York. There, at a Beth Israel Hospital anniversary, guests learned that, years earlier, Rabbi Abba Hillel Silver had told Cardinal Francis Spellman of Israel's efforts to get a seat in the United Nations. To help, Spellman said he would call on South American governments and share with them his fond wish that Israel be admitted.
     
    - http://www.fisheaters.com/jewsvaticanii.html

    Perhaps he had some Irish immigrant chips on his shoulder about WASPS disrespecting his family. If he disliked the balance of power among the citizens of this country, wildly increasing immigration levels could largely shift the balance of political power and ideology in the country. [...] I know that I have been an imperfect human being, but with the help of my faith, I have tried to right my path. I want you to know, Your Holiness, that in my nearly 50 years of elective office, I have done my best to champion the rights of the poor and open doors of economic opportunity. I've worked to welcome the immigrant, fight discrimination and expand access to health care and education. . . .
     
    - https://www.numbersusa.com/content/nusablog/beckr/september-2-2009/ted-kennedys-immigration-legacy-and-why-did-he-do-it.html

    Siskel & Ebert vs. the WASPs
    http://www.unz.com/isteve/siskel-ebert-on-wasps/

    There is an ADL: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Defamation_League

    There is a Catholic League: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_League_(U.S.)

    This website - last updated in July 2015 - is the only WASP advocacy effort I have come across:


    [...] the American Anglo-Saxon Protestant upper class, bombarded by waves of immigration in the late 19th and early 20th century and facing radical change in American society, [...]

    Instead, they have retreated into a small conception of themselves, one based largely upon popular negative stereotypes.

    These stereotypes speak for themselves: WASPs are considered to be stuffy, cold, tightfisted, impotent, and closed-minded. They are thought to be exclusionary, spoiled, out-of-touch, insular, and not infrequently alcoholic.

    The fact of the matter is that WASPs have been both progressive and public-minded, especially over the last 100 years, and have been influential in business, banking, philanthropy, academia, the arts, and in public service. They have contributed in a very real way to the building of the United States, and some of our great leaders – both past and present – have been white, Anglo-Saxon, and Protestant.
     
    - https://waspmanifesto.wordpress.com/about/

    There are seemingly few blogs that advocate for ‘WASPs’ or English-descended Americans. That’s why I started my blog, which is

    http://theoldinheritance.wordpress.com

    I write about historical and cultural matters as well as the political side, about the ‘ethnic cleansing’ of WASPs, etc.

    I hope it’s all right to offer the link to my blog above.

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  38. @snorlax

    To put it bluntly, if you lived in 19th century America, you wouldn’t want an Irishman for a neighbor.
     
    You won't find any disagreement from me that the WASPs should not have allowed the "great waves" of immigration. Relatively speaking, the WASPs are doing far worse than they were in the 19c.

    Jury's still out on whether they were a good thing for America — on the one hand it's the reason the "we're a nation of immigrants" line has such effectiveness, on the other hand American WASPs are literally the people who invented leftist racial ideology and were fanatics from the start.

    In any event the great-wavers assimilated fully, have been hugely net-positive economic and scientific contributors, and made the majority-minority tipping point a much higher bar to clear.


    The Irish also brought with them political corruption
     
    A bit of a pot, kettle situation. The biggest denouncers of Irish corruption were also the biggest boosters of Grant and Reconstruction. The premier anti-Irish politician of the 19c, James Blaine, was also at the top of the corruption charts.

    mob violence, crime, etc. Not to mention drunkenness and urban poverty on a level hitherto unknown in Anglo-America.
     
    This is all by 19th-century standards, which were rather higher than today's. The 19c definition of drunkenness being "consumes any alcohol at all," violence being the very occasional stabbing, etc.

    Occasionally someone will write an article pointing out that the "Wild West" actually featured very little violent crime (by today's standards), but of course by 19c standards it was wild.

    In any event Irish-Americans are nowadays amongst the top-performing white groups in terms of income, educational attainment, crime, illegitimacy etc.


    And then there’s the fact that they introduced the nauseating concept of “hyphenated-Americans,” making “Irish-Americans” the first step in multiculturalism….
     
    I believe Teddy Roosevelt was the inventor of that term. In any event, in the 19c loyalty to one's own kin was considered normal and natural.

    Americans inserting their ethnically-motivated dual loyalties into the political sphere goes at least back to Hamilton.* Roosevelt himself had similar dual loyalties — in pursuit of which he coined the term "hyphenated-Americans!"

    *Jefferson, on the other hand, inaugurated dual loyalty on the basis of ethnomasochism combined with fanatical leftism.

    Post WWII saw huge intermarriage among ethnic Catholics, which then led to the largest enrollments in Catholic schools as they sought identity as American Catholics and no longer [Nation-of-Origin]-Catholics… Of course the bishops effed up this opportunity and allowed their flock to be labeled “whites” who happen to be Catholic, and so all social justice got turned towards black-white issues and anti-racism. The American Catholic identity never really formed and Catholics became Pro-Life (R) or Social Justice (D), and their vote split and power neutralized, to be used and manipulated by the neocons on the Right and Soros et al. on the Left. Embarrassing.

    Podesta for example: peasant Catholic stock, poorly educated in his cultural and civilizational heritage, but well-trained in the practical tools of power and politics. Like many upwardly mobile Catholics, he carries the water for those who seek to eliminate the cultural legacy of his people. A Judas or, better yet, a Janissary

    Or Santorum: Peasant stock, Poorly educated in his cultural heritage, (a damn idiot in person), carries water for the War Machine of the Right. A Judas or a Janissary

    The Triple Melting Pot theory states that after three generation ethnic identity becomes religion not country of origin, so the USA would have still been balkanized along the lines of Catholic/Protestant/Jew. Now we get to add Muslim/Hindu/Animist/Zoroastrian/Buddhist… of course, only after three generations, they are still loyal to culture/country of origin now.

    Viva Azania!

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  39. Anon says: • Disclaimer
    @snorlax

    To put it bluntly, if you lived in 19th century America, you wouldn’t want an Irishman for a neighbor.
     
    You won't find any disagreement from me that the WASPs should not have allowed the "great waves" of immigration. Relatively speaking, the WASPs are doing far worse than they were in the 19c.

    Jury's still out on whether they were a good thing for America — on the one hand it's the reason the "we're a nation of immigrants" line has such effectiveness, on the other hand American WASPs are literally the people who invented leftist racial ideology and were fanatics from the start.

    In any event the great-wavers assimilated fully, have been hugely net-positive economic and scientific contributors, and made the majority-minority tipping point a much higher bar to clear.


    The Irish also brought with them political corruption
     
    A bit of a pot, kettle situation. The biggest denouncers of Irish corruption were also the biggest boosters of Grant and Reconstruction. The premier anti-Irish politician of the 19c, James Blaine, was also at the top of the corruption charts.

    mob violence, crime, etc. Not to mention drunkenness and urban poverty on a level hitherto unknown in Anglo-America.
     
    This is all by 19th-century standards, which were rather higher than today's. The 19c definition of drunkenness being "consumes any alcohol at all," violence being the very occasional stabbing, etc.

    Occasionally someone will write an article pointing out that the "Wild West" actually featured very little violent crime (by today's standards), but of course by 19c standards it was wild.

    In any event Irish-Americans are nowadays amongst the top-performing white groups in terms of income, educational attainment, crime, illegitimacy etc.


    And then there’s the fact that they introduced the nauseating concept of “hyphenated-Americans,” making “Irish-Americans” the first step in multiculturalism….
     
    I believe Teddy Roosevelt was the inventor of that term. In any event, in the 19c loyalty to one's own kin was considered normal and natural.

    Americans inserting their ethnically-motivated dual loyalties into the political sphere goes at least back to Hamilton.* Roosevelt himself had similar dual loyalties — in pursuit of which he coined the term "hyphenated-Americans!"

    *Jefferson, on the other hand, inaugurated dual loyalty on the basis of ethnomasochism combined with fanatical leftism.

    Occasionally someone will write an article pointing out that the “Wild West” actually featured very little violent crime (by today’s standards), but of course by 19c standards it was wild.

    This just isn’t true. The homicide rate in California was well over 50 per 100,000 through most of the 1800s. Even in Chicago today, it’s only 20. Cite:

    http://sites.nationalacademies.org/cs/groups/dbassesite/documents/webpage/dbasse_083892.pdf

    Read More
    • Replies: @Whoever
    Uhh...yes and no.

    It is popularly assumed that the frontier was full of brave, strong, reckless, and violent men and that they helped make the frontier a violent and lawless place. The first assumption is correct; the second is mostly wrong.
    A look at two frontier mining towns—Aurora, Nevada, and Bodie, California—illustrates these points. The towns were home to [outlaws] aplenty and saw a considerable number of homicides but they were remarkably free from most crime: robbery, theft, and burglary occurred infrequently and bank robbery, rape, racial violence, and serious juvenile crime seem not to have occurred at all. While the homicide rate was high, the killings were almost always the result of fights between willing combatants.
    Thus, in Aurora and Bodie, the old, the young, the unwilling, the weak, and the female were, for the most part, safe from harm. If, as many popularly assume, much of America's crime problem is a consequence of a heritage of frontier violence and lawlessness, then it is ironic that the crimes most common today—robbery, burglar, theft, and rape—were of no great significance and, in the case of rape, seemingly nonexistent in Aurora and Bodie.
     
    That's an excerpt from Chapter 5 of Violence in America, Volume 1: The History of Crime.
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  40. Dr. X says:

    This article makes a great point: that ethno-politics and identity politics as a way to undermine the Constitution and the America of the Founders is not a new phenomenon, but has been with us since the 19th century. The Irish of Boston and New York during that era were in fact violent, criminal, and corrupt, and the Irish machine politicians of that era perfected the quid pro quo technique of buying votes by doling out government favors in return.

    It was the Democratic Party under Irishman Al Smith that began the process of bringing urban machine politics national. Today, we’re seeing Tammany Hall and Curley-style criminality and corruption in the national level, almost exclusively in the Democratic Party.

    Unfortunately, this game works very well, and it will probably work again next month. Perhaps the Know-Nothings were right after all… increasingly I am beginning to think that they were, and that an America that is not white and Protestant is not America.

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    • Replies: @Evocatus
    Incidentally, the creation of the actual urban political machinery preceded the arrival of Famine era Irish-Catholics to the country by about three or four decades. Tammany Hall, for example, was developed into a political machine by Aaron Burr to counter and out-vote Alexander Hamilton's Federalist Party in New York City. And the two most notoriously corrupt Tammany Hall sachems, William Tweed and Richard Croker, both came from Protestant backgrounds (Tweed was Scots Presbyterian while Croker was of downwardly mobile Anglo-Irish Cromwellian stock). Meanwhile, the first Irish Catholic elected mayor of New York was William Russell Grace, a reform Democrat who descended from a prominent shipping family in the Irish midlands.
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  41. AndrewR says:
    @snorlax
    TBF I'm sure Curley didn't see it as "demographic devastation." And it wasn't! The Irish are, even when poor, in the ninety-nine point lots of nines percentile for immigrant quality.

    This is the dumbest comment I’ve seen on unz.com in weeks, and that’s saying a lot.

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  42. AndrewR says:
    @ATX Hipster
    I live in a city that's 88% white. How can I get some of my local politicians to use the Curley Model to bring some of that Austrian-style diversity to my boring, lily-white enclave?

    In a truly shocking twist the Suptreme Court decided the grown Iraqi man may not have realised the 10-year-old did not want to be sexually abused by him.

    Amir A, 20, was visiting the Theresienbad pool in the Austrian capital of Vienna last December as part of a trip to encourage integration.
     

    Amir A. made the honest mistake of thinking he was supposed to integrate locals into his Iraqi culture. Whoops!

    When the youngster went to the showers, Amir A. allegedly followed him, pushed him into a toilet cubicle, and violently sexually assaulted him.

    Following the attack, the accused rapist returned to the pool and was practising on the diving board when police arrived...

    The child suffered severe anal injuries which had to be treated at a local children's hospital, and is still plagued by serious post-traumatic stress disorder.

    In a police interview, Amir A. confessed to the crime; telling officers the incident had been "a sexual emergency", as his wife had remained in Iraq and he "had not had sex in four months".
     

    Who can blame him? A grown woman and a 10-year-old boy are completely interchangeable for sexual purposes, right?

    A court found Amir guilty of serious sexual assault and rape of a minor, and sentenced him to six years in jail. However, in a bizarre twist, the Supreme Court yesterday overturned the conviction, accepting the defence lawyer's claim that the original court had not done enough to ascertain whether or not the rapist realised the child was saying no.

    ...The appeal court said the initial ruling should have dealt with whether the offender thought that the victim had agreed with the sexual act, or whether he had intended to act against his will.
     

    The age of consent in Austria is 14, so one might ask what the boy's willingness to be raped has to do with anything. But to ask that question is to miss the point - what's a piddling little thing like a few kids getting sodomized in exchange for the vibrance and enrichment we can experience by inviting a few billion third-worlders?

    If Austrians were worth saving, they would make those judges strongly regret their treason.

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    • Agree: ATX Hipster
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  43. res says:
    @Lot
    You are wrong if you think it is easy right now for Europeans to immigrate legally to the USA. It is far easier for a Salvadorian than an Irishman.

    I am not so sure Kennedy cared much about the Irish however.

    You are wrong if you think it is easy right now for Europeans to immigrate legally to the USA. It is far easier for a Salvadorian than an Irishman.

    Do you know of any quantification of this? For example, what proportion of the applicant pools succeed? How long on average does the process take for each group? How do the qualifications (including “family reunification” as a qualification?) compare for those admitted from each group? What is the average out of pocket expense for each group (e.g. is there aid that favors Salvadorans)? Any other signs like laws which specifically favor Salvadorans?

    P.S. I’d be even more interested in data covering groups comprising a larger proportion of our immigrants than Salvadorans and the Irish do.

    P.P.S. Revisiting “Ecuadoran” etc. from another thread:

    https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20101027120306AAO1LYY

    https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=Salvadoran%2CSalvadorian%2CSalvadorean&year_start=1880&year_end=2010&corpus=15&smoothing=3&share=&direct_url=t1%3B%2CSalvadoran%3B%2Cc0%3B.t1%3B%2CSalvadorian%3B%2Cc0%3B.t1%3B%2CSalvadorean%3B%2Cc0

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  44. @snorlax
    TBF I'm sure Curley didn't see it as "demographic devastation." And it wasn't! The Irish are, even when poor, in the ninety-nine point lots of nines percentile for immigrant quality.

    Left entirely out of this analysis — this is apparently what economists routinely do when constructing their models — is Curley’s primary motivation and a large part of the reason for his success. Protestant Boston had been brutally discriminating against the Irish for generations. Previous generations of Irish politicians had tried accommodation and failed. By the time Curley came to power the Irish electorate formed a plurality and were heartily fed up with having been the political underdogs.

    Some examples: There is now a statue to Colonel Cass – who died at Malvern Hill – in the Boston Garden. Before the Civil War Cass tried to form a patriotic Irish militia to correspond with Yankee militias such as the Ancient and Honorable Artillery Company. The immediate reaction of the Great and General Court was to pass a law specifically outlawing any but the Yankee-based militias. The second generation of accommodating Irish politicians can be exemplified by Joseph P. Fallon, the first Irish Bostonian ever elected to the Boston School Committee a decade or two after the Civil War. Fallon was a highly educated man – he eventually became the first Roman Catholic judge in Massachusetts and retired to universal acclaim – but he was ultimately hounded from his first public office for suggesting that since a majority of Boston’s public school students at the time were Roman Catholic it might be wise to revise some of the more overtly anti-Catholic aspects of the curriculum, e.g., references to the Pope as the Whore of Babylon.

    By the time Curley, Lomasney, “Honey Fitz” Fitzgerald and their ilk came along Boston’s Irish were out for revenge. These politicians were riding a wave created for them by their anti-Irish, Yankee predecessors. I grew up during the tail end of this. My Irish-Catholic family had been involved in Boston politics for generations and loathed Curley and the new brand of Irish machine politician. But they also recognized where Curley’s support ultimately came from.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Taco
    It's almost as if the WASPs who built Boston out of raw wilderness were unhappy about simply giving it to drunken, crime ridden newcomers.

    How wrong they were! Corruption disappeared from Boston just as soon as the Irish had enough of a majority to win all of the elections, right?
    , @Dan Hayes
    Jus Sayin':

    Thanks for the historical background about the virulence of WASP anti-Irish sentiment/actions in Boston. Now I know why I have encountered very little, if any, anti-WASP sentiment in New York City since here any WASP prejudices/bigotry against the Irish (as opposed to those in Boston) were either muted or had occurred a very long time ago.
    , @Brutusale
    Cass' statue is in the Boston Public Garden, not the Boston Garden, a place where you'll find very tall, very dark Celts. The good Colonel formed his mostly Irish regiment, the 9th, with money from the publisher of The Pilot, the newspaper of the Roman Catholic Archdiocese of Boston. I'm sure the WASPS were thrilled. The 9th, alas, was not representative of the alleged martial prowess of the average son of the Auld Sod, and spent most of the Civil War, like Cass himself, getting killed by Southrons.

    You're reaching with Joe Fallon; Boston was already more than a quarter Irish when he was elected. Better to mention Andrew Carney, a true self-made financier and, more importantly to the Irish community, a great philanthropist. Cofounder of Boston College, First National Bank of Boston and John Hancock Insurance, and, in 1863, the hospital that still bears his name. He was born dirt-poor back in Ireland, but he proved himself equal to any WASP while most of his coethnics only flapped their jaws about it.

    I'll always remember Carney Hospital. About 25 years ago my then-wife and I were trying to conceive, which was an iffy proposition due to past medical issues that left her with only partial ovarian function. Her doc asked if I would go for a sperm motility check, which I was fine with. The area hospital for the sperm sample was the Carney. In I stroll to give my sample, and who should hand this former 12-year Catholic schoolboy the sample cup but a nun in full habit! Talk about pressure...

    , @The Man From K Street

    The immediate reaction of the Great and General Court was to pass a law specifically outlawing any but the Yankee-based militias.
     
    Fascinating. Any source for further reading on that? For obvious reasons the old US custom of semi-private but recognized militia units should be of interest these days.
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  45. Flip says:

    I can’t say that I see much difference between Irish-Americans and English/Scotch-Irish/Scottish/German/Scandinavian/Dutch Americans these days. We are closely related Northwestern Europeans.

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    • Replies: @AndrewR
    It's not always obvious at first glance but the cultural traits their ancestors brought over how ever many centuries ago are not extinguished, especially among more purebred stock. This becomes especially apparent when visiting places that have stayed relatively ethnically homogenous for generations. Read Albion's Seed to get a better perspective on this question.
    , @The Last Real Calvinist

    I can’t say that I see much difference between Irish-Americans and English/Scotch-Irish/Scottish/German/Scandinavian/Dutch Americans these days. We are closely related Northwestern Europeans.

     

    Go visit Sioux County, Iowa (predominantly Dutch-American). You'd see some differences.
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  46. A variation of this same theme may be found in what I’d call “The Emmanuel Effect”, currently being employed in Chicago, but increasingly in places like NYC, featuring generous helpings of Section 8 vouchers as an inducement to get the “natives” out of the city so that the housing prices can go up up and away for the purpose of attracting well-heeled young Ivy types. Though the perps won’t dare openly acknowledge that in their hearts they despise “People of Color” (lest it upset The Narrative), the net effect is the same as Curley.

    Harlem was never so white as it is now.

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  47. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @D. K.
    OT:

    "The Cubs win the pennant! The Cubs win the pennant! The Cubs win the pennant!"

    Kershaw blows it in the playoffs yet again….

    Read More
    • Replies: @D. K.
    Even as a long-suffering Cubs fan, who has waited sixty years and fifty-nine times for the Cubs' return to the Fall Classic, I do feel for him. He threw a masterful game in Game 2-- which the Dodgers won, 1-0, on a front-row home run to left-center field, at Wrigley, by the Dodgers' first baseman-- and I feared that the Cubs would be looking again for a deciding-game win, tonight, with memories of 2003 (the night after the Bartman implosion) and 1984 (although that Game 5 was blown in San Diego, not Chicago) dancing in their collective unconscious!?!
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  48. @anon

    A complement to the concept of the Curley Effect would be the Kennedy Effect honoring Ted Kennedy’s repeated efforts to import more Irishmen to vote for Kennedys in American elections.
     
    You appear to be going Ann Coulter on us. This is the second post in recent days where you dump the 1965 Immigration Act at the feet of Teddy Kennedy and not mention Representative Celler.

    The Irish were not as negatively affected by the quotas of the 1924 Immigration Act as Southern Europeans and Jews from Eastern Europe.


    In the 10 years following 1900, about 200,000 Italians immigrated annually. With the imposition of the 1924 quota, 4,000 per year were allowed. By contrast, the annual quota for Germany after the passage of the Act was over 57,000. Some 86% of the 155,000 permitted to enter under the Act were from Northern European countries, with Germany (including Poles; see: Partitions of Poland), Britain, and Ireland having the highest quotas. The new quotas for immigration from Southern and Eastern Europe[where?] were so restrictive that in 1924 there were more Italians, Czechs, Yugoslavs, Greeks, Lithuanians, Hungarians, Portuguese, Romanians, Spaniards, Jews, Chinese, and Japanese that left the United States than those who arrived as immigrants.[19]
     
    So why would Kennedy need to overturn it when his people weren't really being turned away in large numbers? Seems like the Celler Effect would be a more appropriate description than the Kennedy Effect.

    Anon:

    Unlike Curley, Kennedy’s ambitions for himself, his extended family, and his Party were national and dynastic. Especially before Chappaquidick.

    Curley was basically just a Boston area pol.

    Undoubtedly, both were happy to import more Irish-Catholics. And since the Boston area was always a popular destination for Irish-Catholics, that would have reinforced the electoral edge for both in Massachusetts.

    But Ireland (<4 million people at the time) was simply far too small to provide enough immigrants to create such an electoral edge at the national scale which is what mattered most to the Kennedys.

    Creating that advantage at the national level required importing immigrants from the 3rd world. As those immigrants were and are that much more dependent on government handouts and employment than the Irish, they made especially reliable Democratic Party voters.

    From a personal and family power perspective, Kennedy's behavior made perfect sense.

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  49. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @snorlax

    Would he have cared? He only wanted votes, after all.
     
    I just asked him. Says he's voting for Hill.

    Well, relative to Blacks and Mestizo Hispanics, sure.
     
    Relative to most white groups, too. Over in the Old World they've managed to produce a nicer standard of living and a healthier body politic than their neighbors the WASPs, despite the latter's enormous head start. And over here the pretty strong upwards trend for Boston and New York, especially relative to other major cities, has to count for something.

    Not that it should be the operative consideration, but they're also a people who are known for their good looks and are disproportionately represented amongst movie stars.

    Ireland’s economy is actually not that great, despite the numbers, which are ginned up by EU subsidies and by its role as a major offshoring center for tax purposes. It’s still significantly rural and based on tourism. It depends a lot on EU ag subsidies and being a tax haven for multinationals. Many young people still have to go abroad to places like the UK and Australia to work. Go down to any pub in any Irish town, and everyone there will have family and friends working abroad, and will have themselves done stints abroad. There’s not much industry and commerce there, which actually makes it appealing for tourism, but also leaves little work for people, especially young people.

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  50. @syonredux

    Huh??? May the good Lord bless you with Vietnamese, Chechen, Armenian and Serbian neighbors.
     
    Armenians whose ancestors arrived in America before 1924 make pretty good neighbors.And I've never had any problems with Vietnamese people.Dunno about Serbs.

    I've heard bad stuff about Chechens.

    We need close to zero immigration for at least 50 years.

    I’ve heard bad stuff about Chechens.

    Yeah, I’ve heard bad stuff about Chechens, too.

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  51. AndrewR says:
    @Flip
    I can't say that I see much difference between Irish-Americans and English/Scotch-Irish/Scottish/German/Scandinavian/Dutch Americans these days. We are closely related Northwestern Europeans.

    It’s not always obvious at first glance but the cultural traits their ancestors brought over how ever many centuries ago are not extinguished, especially among more purebred stock. This becomes especially apparent when visiting places that have stayed relatively ethnically homogenous for generations. Read Albion’s Seed to get a better perspective on this question.

    Read More
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  52. Mr. Anon says:
    @ATX Hipster
    I live in a city that's 88% white. How can I get some of my local politicians to use the Curley Model to bring some of that Austrian-style diversity to my boring, lily-white enclave?

    In a truly shocking twist the Suptreme Court decided the grown Iraqi man may not have realised the 10-year-old did not want to be sexually abused by him.

    Amir A, 20, was visiting the Theresienbad pool in the Austrian capital of Vienna last December as part of a trip to encourage integration.
     

    Amir A. made the honest mistake of thinking he was supposed to integrate locals into his Iraqi culture. Whoops!

    When the youngster went to the showers, Amir A. allegedly followed him, pushed him into a toilet cubicle, and violently sexually assaulted him.

    Following the attack, the accused rapist returned to the pool and was practising on the diving board when police arrived...

    The child suffered severe anal injuries which had to be treated at a local children's hospital, and is still plagued by serious post-traumatic stress disorder.

    In a police interview, Amir A. confessed to the crime; telling officers the incident had been "a sexual emergency", as his wife had remained in Iraq and he "had not had sex in four months".
     

    Who can blame him? A grown woman and a 10-year-old boy are completely interchangeable for sexual purposes, right?

    A court found Amir guilty of serious sexual assault and rape of a minor, and sentenced him to six years in jail. However, in a bizarre twist, the Supreme Court yesterday overturned the conviction, accepting the defence lawyer's claim that the original court had not done enough to ascertain whether or not the rapist realised the child was saying no.

    ...The appeal court said the initial ruling should have dealt with whether the offender thought that the victim had agreed with the sexual act, or whether he had intended to act against his will.
     

    The age of consent in Austria is 14, so one might ask what the boy's willingness to be raped has to do with anything. But to ask that question is to miss the point - what's a piddling little thing like a few kids getting sodomized in exchange for the vibrance and enrichment we can experience by inviting a few billion third-worlders?

    “The age of consent in Austria is 14, so one might ask what the boy’s willingness to be raped has to do with anything. But to ask that question is to miss the point – what’s a piddling little thing like a few kids getting sodomized in exchange for the vibrance and enrichment we can experience by inviting a few billion third-worlders?”

    It is entirely possible that some of the people encouraging this third-world invasion of the west admire some aspects of arab culture, like pederasty, and are using the invasion as a means of normalizing such perversions here.

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  53. Mr. Anon says:
    @Wilkey
    I am not so sure Kennedy cared much about the Irish however.

    Indeed. If Kennedy's goal was merely to boost Irish immigration, then he repeatedly failed. But he never apologized for his failures, never revisited or reworked his old laws except to help them fail even more. By the time he got to the end of his career he was pushing for a same-but-worse repeat of the amnesty that had failed so disastrously in 1986.

    Looking back, the reason conservatives have lost so drastically on immigration is in large part thanks to the Bush family. It was President George H. W. Bush who deliberately scuttled the enforcement provisions of the 1986 amnesty law and then consented to a massive immigration expansion in 1990, which included adding the diversity lottery and the H-1B visa program. In theory the 1990 law cut back on chain migration by limiting who qualifies as family, but in reality it greatly increased the number of family members allowed to receive visas each year.

    The 1990 bill only passed by 231-192 in the House, so it could easily have been killed off with a veto. Most of the 17 votes against the bill in the Senate were by Democrats (including Harry Reid and Al Gore), but 127 of the 192 votes against the bill in the House were by Republicans, so by not vetoing the bill Bush stabbed his own party in the back.

    Then of course from 2001-2008 his son looked the other way while millions of illegals poured into the country and gave birth to millions of anchor babies, while he attempted twice to force an amnesty down our throats. I can remember quite well the press conference following Republican loss of the House and Senate after the 2006 elections where Bush's press secretary was all but dancing on the graves of defeated Republicans, proclaiming it was a great chance to try again at passing an amnesty.

    Ted Kennedy and Emmanuel Celler may have had it in for America, but it is the Bush family that pulled the trigger.

    “Ted Kennedy and Emmanuel Celler may have had it in for America, but it is the Bush family that pulled the trigger.”

    The Bushes are awful – all of them. They’ve done as much damage to this country as any Democrat.

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  54. D. K. says:
    @Anonymous
    Kershaw blows it in the playoffs yet again....

    Even as a long-suffering Cubs fan, who has waited sixty years and fifty-nine times for the Cubs’ return to the Fall Classic, I do feel for him. He threw a masterful game in Game 2– which the Dodgers won, 1-0, on a front-row home run to left-center field, at Wrigley, by the Dodgers’ first baseman– and I feared that the Cubs would be looking again for a deciding-game win, tonight, with memories of 2003 (the night after the Bartman implosion) and 1984 (although that Game 5 was blown in San Diego, not Chicago) dancing in their collective unconscious!?!

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  55. Taco says:
    @Anonymous
    OT:

    Liberal Cornell Psychology Prof on implicit bias and Trump: http://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/23/opinion/sunday/how-kids-learn-prejudice.html

    Douthat on Hillary Clinton featuring iSteveish themes: http://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/23/opinion/sunday/the-dangers-of-hillary-clinton.html

    From the Cornell professor article:

    Recently, my 2½-year-old daughter asked me about the Trump video everyone seemed to be talking about. Like many parents, I had made the mistake of assuming we were still in the soft and squishy baby days when she wasn’t listening. But now she is listening.

    I told her that a man who would like to be president said some mean things that hurt a lot of people’s feelings. My daughter started to cry; like many children, she is sensitive. I hugged her and assured her that everything would be O.K.

    I’ll take “things that never happened for 500,” Alec.

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    • LOL: Jim Don Bob
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  56. Sean says:

    I do wonder if Kennedy’s objective was something as ambitious as importing enough Irishmen to influence national politics. Kennedy may have had the far more limited aim of cementing a fief.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Bulger

    William Michael “Billy” Bulger (born February 2, 1934) is a retired American Democratic politician, lawyer, and educator from South Boston, Massachusetts, whose eighteen-year tenure as President of the Massachusetts Senate is the longest in history, and who was also president of the University of Massachusetts. He was forced to resign from the latter post after he refused to testify in a 2003 Congressional hearing about communications he had with his then-fugitive brother, James “Whitey” Bulger, Jr., a Boston crime boss.[

    Like an old movie, he even looks like Cagney.

    “No Irish Need Apply”: A Myth of Victimization
    The late Tip O’Neill remembered the signs from his youth in Boston in 1920s; Senator Ted Kennedy reported the most recent sighting, telling the Senate during a civil rights debate that he saw them when growing up 5 Historically, physical NINA signs could have flourished only in intensely anti-Catholic or anti-Irish eras, especially the 1830—1870 period. Thus reports of sightings in the 1920s or 1930s suggest the myth had become so deeply rooted in Irish-American folk mythology that it was impervious to evidence.

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  57. Taco says:
    @Jus' Sayin'...
    Left entirely out of this analysis -- this is apparently what economists routinely do when constructing their models -- is Curley's primary motivation and a large part of the reason for his success. Protestant Boston had been brutally discriminating against the Irish for generations. Previous generations of Irish politicians had tried accommodation and failed. By the time Curley came to power the Irish electorate formed a plurality and were heartily fed up with having been the political underdogs.

    Some examples: There is now a statue to Colonel Cass - who died at Malvern Hill - in the Boston Garden. Before the Civil War Cass tried to form a patriotic Irish militia to correspond with Yankee militias such as the Ancient and Honorable Artillery Company. The immediate reaction of the Great and General Court was to pass a law specifically outlawing any but the Yankee-based militias. The second generation of accommodating Irish politicians can be exemplified by Joseph P. Fallon, the first Irish Bostonian ever elected to the Boston School Committee a decade or two after the Civil War. Fallon was a highly educated man - he eventually became the first Roman Catholic judge in Massachusetts and retired to universal acclaim - but he was ultimately hounded from his first public office for suggesting that since a majority of Boston's public school students at the time were Roman Catholic it might be wise to revise some of the more overtly anti-Catholic aspects of the curriculum, e.g., references to the Pope as the Whore of Babylon.

    By the time Curley, Lomasney, "Honey Fitz" Fitzgerald and their ilk came along Boston's Irish were out for revenge. These politicians were riding a wave created for them by their anti-Irish, Yankee predecessors. I grew up during the tail end of this. My Irish-Catholic family had been involved in Boston politics for generations and loathed Curley and the new brand of Irish machine politician. But they also recognized where Curley's support ultimately came from.

    It’s almost as if the WASPs who built Boston out of raw wilderness were unhappy about simply giving it to drunken, crime ridden newcomers.

    How wrong they were! Corruption disappeared from Boston just as soon as the Irish had enough of a majority to win all of the elections, right?

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    • Replies: @Jus' Sayin'...
    If you think you know something - anything - about the origins of political corruption in Boston and Massachusetts perhaps you'd bless us with a little lesson on the etymology and meaning of "gerrymander" I'll give you a hint: It ain't Gaelic.
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  58. Berty says:

    Why does everyone at iSteve keep misspelling Rahm Emanuel’s name? It’s only got one M.

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    • Replies: @Jim Don Bob
    What? I see two Ms. One in Rahm, and one in Emanuel. What's the problem?
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  59. Evocatus says:
    @Dr. X
    This article makes a great point: that ethno-politics and identity politics as a way to undermine the Constitution and the America of the Founders is not a new phenomenon, but has been with us since the 19th century. The Irish of Boston and New York during that era were in fact violent, criminal, and corrupt, and the Irish machine politicians of that era perfected the quid pro quo technique of buying votes by doling out government favors in return.

    It was the Democratic Party under Irishman Al Smith that began the process of bringing urban machine politics national. Today, we're seeing Tammany Hall and Curley-style criminality and corruption in the national level, almost exclusively in the Democratic Party.

    Unfortunately, this game works very well, and it will probably work again next month. Perhaps the Know-Nothings were right after all... increasingly I am beginning to think that they were, and that an America that is not white and Protestant is not America.

    Incidentally, the creation of the actual urban political machinery preceded the arrival of Famine era Irish-Catholics to the country by about three or four decades. Tammany Hall, for example, was developed into a political machine by Aaron Burr to counter and out-vote Alexander Hamilton’s Federalist Party in New York City. And the two most notoriously corrupt Tammany Hall sachems, William Tweed and Richard Croker, both came from Protestant backgrounds (Tweed was Scots Presbyterian while Croker was of downwardly mobile Anglo-Irish Cromwellian stock). Meanwhile, the first Irish Catholic elected mayor of New York was William Russell Grace, a reform Democrat who descended from a prominent shipping family in the Irish midlands.

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  60. Ivy says:
    @Steve Sailer
    Teddy sponsored the 1990 Diversity Visa act to bring in more Irishmen.

    There were potatoes rotting in the fields, and they would do the jobs that Americans wouldn’t.

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  61. @Taco
    It's almost as if the WASPs who built Boston out of raw wilderness were unhappy about simply giving it to drunken, crime ridden newcomers.

    How wrong they were! Corruption disappeared from Boston just as soon as the Irish had enough of a majority to win all of the elections, right?

    If you think you know something – anything – about the origins of political corruption in Boston and Massachusetts perhaps you’d bless us with a little lesson on the etymology and meaning of “gerrymander” I’ll give you a hint: It ain’t Gaelic.

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    • Agree: Dan Hayes
    • Replies: @Brutusale
    If you think the electoral districts around Essex County are any less Byzantine now than when Elbridge Gerry was governor, you're deluded. My girlfriend's state rep district covers wards in FOUR towns, one of them in the neighboring county! My old state Senate district had a 2nd generation Mick trough feeder in office, and it was mostly in a heavily Hispanifying town that they extended a tentacle across three white suburbs to get him some pale voters.
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  62. Dan Hayes says:
    @Jus' Sayin'...
    Left entirely out of this analysis -- this is apparently what economists routinely do when constructing their models -- is Curley's primary motivation and a large part of the reason for his success. Protestant Boston had been brutally discriminating against the Irish for generations. Previous generations of Irish politicians had tried accommodation and failed. By the time Curley came to power the Irish electorate formed a plurality and were heartily fed up with having been the political underdogs.

    Some examples: There is now a statue to Colonel Cass - who died at Malvern Hill - in the Boston Garden. Before the Civil War Cass tried to form a patriotic Irish militia to correspond with Yankee militias such as the Ancient and Honorable Artillery Company. The immediate reaction of the Great and General Court was to pass a law specifically outlawing any but the Yankee-based militias. The second generation of accommodating Irish politicians can be exemplified by Joseph P. Fallon, the first Irish Bostonian ever elected to the Boston School Committee a decade or two after the Civil War. Fallon was a highly educated man - he eventually became the first Roman Catholic judge in Massachusetts and retired to universal acclaim - but he was ultimately hounded from his first public office for suggesting that since a majority of Boston's public school students at the time were Roman Catholic it might be wise to revise some of the more overtly anti-Catholic aspects of the curriculum, e.g., references to the Pope as the Whore of Babylon.

    By the time Curley, Lomasney, "Honey Fitz" Fitzgerald and their ilk came along Boston's Irish were out for revenge. These politicians were riding a wave created for them by their anti-Irish, Yankee predecessors. I grew up during the tail end of this. My Irish-Catholic family had been involved in Boston politics for generations and loathed Curley and the new brand of Irish machine politician. But they also recognized where Curley's support ultimately came from.

    Jus Sayin’:

    Thanks for the historical background about the virulence of WASP anti-Irish sentiment/actions in Boston. Now I know why I have encountered very little, if any, anti-WASP sentiment in New York City since here any WASP prejudices/bigotry against the Irish (as opposed to those in Boston) were either muted or had occurred a very long time ago.

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  63. @Berty
    Why does everyone at iSteve keep misspelling Rahm Emanuel's name? It's only got one M.

    What? I see two Ms. One in Rahm, and one in Emanuel. What’s the problem?

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  64. @Steve Sailer
    Teddy sponsored the 1990 Diversity Visa act to bring in more Irishmen.

    Teddy sponsored the 1990 Diversity Visa act to bring in more Irishmen.

    Teddy sponsored the 1990 Diversity Visa act to bring in more Irish women. There FIFY because Teddy thought with his little head, which, unfortunately for America, was smarter than his big head.

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  65. @Flip
    I can't say that I see much difference between Irish-Americans and English/Scotch-Irish/Scottish/German/Scandinavian/Dutch Americans these days. We are closely related Northwestern Europeans.

    I can’t say that I see much difference between Irish-Americans and English/Scotch-Irish/Scottish/German/Scandinavian/Dutch Americans these days. We are closely related Northwestern Europeans.

    Go visit Sioux County, Iowa (predominantly Dutch-American). You’d see some differences.

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    • Replies: @Charles Erwin Wilson

    Go visit Sioux County, Iowa (predominantly Dutch-American). You’d see some differences.
     
    The interesting aspect of Sioux County, Iowa is the degree to which Sioux County Dutch-Americans differ from each other.
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  66. @The Last Real Calvinist

    I can’t say that I see much difference between Irish-Americans and English/Scotch-Irish/Scottish/German/Scandinavian/Dutch Americans these days. We are closely related Northwestern Europeans.

     

    Go visit Sioux County, Iowa (predominantly Dutch-American). You'd see some differences.

    Go visit Sioux County, Iowa (predominantly Dutch-American). You’d see some differences.

    The interesting aspect of Sioux County, Iowa is the degree to which Sioux County Dutch-Americans differ from each other.

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  67. Whoever says:
    @Anon

    Occasionally someone will write an article pointing out that the “Wild West” actually featured very little violent crime (by today’s standards), but of course by 19c standards it was wild.
     
    This just isn't true. The homicide rate in California was well over 50 per 100,000 through most of the 1800s. Even in Chicago today, it's only 20. Cite:

    http://sites.nationalacademies.org/cs/groups/dbassesite/documents/webpage/dbasse_083892.pdf

    Uhh…yes and no.

    It is popularly assumed that the frontier was full of brave, strong, reckless, and violent men and that they helped make the frontier a violent and lawless place. The first assumption is correct; the second is mostly wrong.
    A look at two frontier mining towns—Aurora, Nevada, and Bodie, California—illustrates these points. The towns were home to [outlaws] aplenty and saw a considerable number of homicides but they were remarkably free from most crime: robbery, theft, and burglary occurred infrequently and bank robbery, rape, racial violence, and serious juvenile crime seem not to have occurred at all. While the homicide rate was high, the killings were almost always the result of fights between willing combatants.
    Thus, in Aurora and Bodie, the old, the young, the unwilling, the weak, and the female were, for the most part, safe from harm. If, as many popularly assume, much of America’s crime problem is a consequence of a heritage of frontier violence and lawlessness, then it is ironic that the crimes most common today—robbery, burglar, theft, and rape—were of no great significance and, in the case of rape, seemingly nonexistent in Aurora and Bodie.

    That’s an excerpt from Chapter 5 of Violence in America, Volume 1: The History of Crime.

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  68. I suppose the Larry effect and the Moe effect are very common in politics, too.

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  69. Joe Walker says: • Website

    Congratulations, Steve! At a time when white gentile Americans need to be more united than ever you continually find ways to divide us.

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  70. Brutusale says:
    @Jus' Sayin'...
    Left entirely out of this analysis -- this is apparently what economists routinely do when constructing their models -- is Curley's primary motivation and a large part of the reason for his success. Protestant Boston had been brutally discriminating against the Irish for generations. Previous generations of Irish politicians had tried accommodation and failed. By the time Curley came to power the Irish electorate formed a plurality and were heartily fed up with having been the political underdogs.

    Some examples: There is now a statue to Colonel Cass - who died at Malvern Hill - in the Boston Garden. Before the Civil War Cass tried to form a patriotic Irish militia to correspond with Yankee militias such as the Ancient and Honorable Artillery Company. The immediate reaction of the Great and General Court was to pass a law specifically outlawing any but the Yankee-based militias. The second generation of accommodating Irish politicians can be exemplified by Joseph P. Fallon, the first Irish Bostonian ever elected to the Boston School Committee a decade or two after the Civil War. Fallon was a highly educated man - he eventually became the first Roman Catholic judge in Massachusetts and retired to universal acclaim - but he was ultimately hounded from his first public office for suggesting that since a majority of Boston's public school students at the time were Roman Catholic it might be wise to revise some of the more overtly anti-Catholic aspects of the curriculum, e.g., references to the Pope as the Whore of Babylon.

    By the time Curley, Lomasney, "Honey Fitz" Fitzgerald and their ilk came along Boston's Irish were out for revenge. These politicians were riding a wave created for them by their anti-Irish, Yankee predecessors. I grew up during the tail end of this. My Irish-Catholic family had been involved in Boston politics for generations and loathed Curley and the new brand of Irish machine politician. But they also recognized where Curley's support ultimately came from.

    Cass’ statue is in the Boston Public Garden, not the Boston Garden, a place where you’ll find very tall, very dark Celts. The good Colonel formed his mostly Irish regiment, the 9th, with money from the publisher of The Pilot, the newspaper of the Roman Catholic Archdiocese of Boston. I’m sure the WASPS were thrilled. The 9th, alas, was not representative of the alleged martial prowess of the average son of the Auld Sod, and spent most of the Civil War, like Cass himself, getting killed by Southrons.

    You’re reaching with Joe Fallon; Boston was already more than a quarter Irish when he was elected. Better to mention Andrew Carney, a true self-made financier and, more importantly to the Irish community, a great philanthropist. Cofounder of Boston College, First National Bank of Boston and John Hancock Insurance, and, in 1863, the hospital that still bears his name. He was born dirt-poor back in Ireland, but he proved himself equal to any WASP while most of his coethnics only flapped their jaws about it.

    I’ll always remember Carney Hospital. About 25 years ago my then-wife and I were trying to conceive, which was an iffy proposition due to past medical issues that left her with only partial ovarian function. Her doc asked if I would go for a sperm motility check, which I was fine with. The area hospital for the sperm sample was the Carney. In I stroll to give my sample, and who should hand this former 12-year Catholic schoolboy the sample cup but a nun in full habit! Talk about pressure…

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  71. Brutusale says:
    @Jus' Sayin'...
    If you think you know something - anything - about the origins of political corruption in Boston and Massachusetts perhaps you'd bless us with a little lesson on the etymology and meaning of "gerrymander" I'll give you a hint: It ain't Gaelic.

    If you think the electoral districts around Essex County are any less Byzantine now than when Elbridge Gerry was governor, you’re deluded. My girlfriend’s state rep district covers wards in FOUR towns, one of them in the neighboring county! My old state Senate district had a 2nd generation Mick trough feeder in office, and it was mostly in a heavily Hispanifying town that they extended a tentacle across three white suburbs to get him some pale voters.

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  72. @Jus' Sayin'...
    Left entirely out of this analysis -- this is apparently what economists routinely do when constructing their models -- is Curley's primary motivation and a large part of the reason for his success. Protestant Boston had been brutally discriminating against the Irish for generations. Previous generations of Irish politicians had tried accommodation and failed. By the time Curley came to power the Irish electorate formed a plurality and were heartily fed up with having been the political underdogs.

    Some examples: There is now a statue to Colonel Cass - who died at Malvern Hill - in the Boston Garden. Before the Civil War Cass tried to form a patriotic Irish militia to correspond with Yankee militias such as the Ancient and Honorable Artillery Company. The immediate reaction of the Great and General Court was to pass a law specifically outlawing any but the Yankee-based militias. The second generation of accommodating Irish politicians can be exemplified by Joseph P. Fallon, the first Irish Bostonian ever elected to the Boston School Committee a decade or two after the Civil War. Fallon was a highly educated man - he eventually became the first Roman Catholic judge in Massachusetts and retired to universal acclaim - but he was ultimately hounded from his first public office for suggesting that since a majority of Boston's public school students at the time were Roman Catholic it might be wise to revise some of the more overtly anti-Catholic aspects of the curriculum, e.g., references to the Pope as the Whore of Babylon.

    By the time Curley, Lomasney, "Honey Fitz" Fitzgerald and their ilk came along Boston's Irish were out for revenge. These politicians were riding a wave created for them by their anti-Irish, Yankee predecessors. I grew up during the tail end of this. My Irish-Catholic family had been involved in Boston politics for generations and loathed Curley and the new brand of Irish machine politician. But they also recognized where Curley's support ultimately came from.

    The immediate reaction of the Great and General Court was to pass a law specifically outlawing any but the Yankee-based militias.

    Fascinating. Any source for further reading on that? For obvious reasons the old US custom of semi-private but recognized militia units should be of interest these days.

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